20 Episode results for "Jessie Buckley"

Jessie Buckley Seeks The Spotlight In 'Wild Rose'

The Frame

26:30 min | 2 years ago

Jessie Buckley Seeks The Spotlight In 'Wild Rose'

"Yeah. Broadcast center at KPC this is the frame. I'm Steven Cuevas spilling in for John horn on today's show, summertime ain't so easy for big budget movie releases like men in black international. But is there more going on than just sequel fatigue? Then I receive an actress Jessie Buckley goes country and Scottish and her new film, wild rose had no relationship to country music at all four star to this. And I thought I was I don't know my peripheral was that it was a bit lacked damn. And will meet the singer known as to Cuban James Brown all that coming up on the frame. KABC podcasts are supported by HBO, presenting game of thrones critics have hailed the final season as TV's greatest show of all time and irritating. Emmy eligible for outstanding drama series and all other categories. Welcome to the frame. I'm Steven Cuevas filling in for John horn by weekends and men in black international was hardly in the black box office returns for the latest installment of the franchise were disappointing to say the least as we're critic reviews earlier today, we reached Bloomberg's Lucas Shah, who told me international isn't the only big budget sequel that's got a case of the summertime. Boxoffice blues is the it is the latest in three or four different sequels that we've seen over the past month that have not done so well minute black international gross less than thirty million dollars in North America, and about half of what all the previous men in black movies at open to it. Did alright internationally? So it's. Worldwide. Total is is north of hundred million dollars, but given the budget on this movie, and what it costs to market, it, most people would ask to me, probably gonna gross lease four hundred million dollars even break. Even this is just based on first week in a box office. Some of the foreign returns, isn't it a little too premature to call it a box office bomb. There are a lot of movies that underperform in the US and Canada and then have legs overseas. And so, you know, the end of eking out a lot more than you would have thought the First Pacific rim movie, is one that comes to mind. I remember it, you know, it was really expensive and had all these visual effects, it, didn't it did, okay in the US? But then in particular so well, in China that successful enough that they actually made a sequel to it. So it's possible that that's the case here, but really the best case for this movie. Is that like it ekes out? You know, maybe break, even it's probably it's, it's certainly not going to be a successful movie, and look, it's it's coming out in the. Middle of summer. So this upcoming weekend. I believe we have toys twenty four which we all know is going to be a huge hit and not long after that. I think you've got both a new Spiderman movie and eventually in the summer, we've got Lion King. So it's just got a lot of competition, which makes it harder. Also, to sustain that opening well, despite its underperformance at the box office, how is men in black international doing critically with both movie critics. And with audiences very, very, very poorly, the scores on most aggregate, metacritic and rotten tomato are very low. The audience score on that is a bit higher audiences tend to, to be less discerning. But still not really high. It's not one of those cases. Sometimes he'll have a movie that gets like twenty or thirty percent score and critics, but ninety percent audience men in black. Is, is not that movie. Well, we also saw films like dark Phoenix, and the secret life of pets. Underperforms. Well, so is this a case of sequel fatigue urges bad movie fatigue? I think it's been ladder. The, the thing about sequel fatigue is my calling, and you did a good piece this week on some of the recent bombs, and what's behind them, and then I went and looked on the, the internet. And I saw it feels like every summer, we have some story on on franchise Petit sequel fatigue. And that's because Holly to makes so many sequels. So if you're gonna any summer, they're going to be some movies that work and some movies that don't either because they're bad or because the franchises, just tired, even marketing was not good that district strategies bad movies fail all the time. And when it's the summer in all Hollywood is doing is releasing sequels and reboots and reimagining and things nothing. That's a regional, of course. Some of those are not going to work. Well, speaking of underperforming, you've also been looking at YouTube kids, it's kind of been bombing with its target audiences kids, roughly fourteen and under just a little background. First YouTube kids was created four years ago. Back in. Fifteen can you I sort of tell us how it's different from the main YouTube site? They've used technology to limit of videos from regular YouTube, that get pulled into kid. They're supposed to be those that are really only, you know, the types of videos that you only want your kids to go on. I was just browsing through it last night, just to familiarize myself. And remember what's on? And you'll see what's called an unblocks video work kids open up Toya box and talk about what Senator animated Barbie videos that kind of thing you, don't you don't have the ability to search for anything and everything in some cases, you can have search and it is not one of the main points of controversy with the kids at is that it is not all handpicked or curated. It still does pull any kind of user uploaded video based on YouTube, kind of tagging and its allies him, which then leads to flaws where every once in a while there will. A video that gets through the sensors that should not the real problem that, that you to pass. And as you alluded to in your introduction is that most kids don't use U two kids. So the latest data that we have in our stories this week is that you kids has more than twenty million weekly users YouTube has two billion users a lot more than twenty million of those are kids, because if you look at some of the most popular channels on YouTube, whether it's this guy Ryan's toy review or coca melon, just for nursery rhyme Caesar channels with tens of millions of subscribers that on their own have a larger audience than you do kit. And that's where all that content created by YouTube users and viewers is going. And so the main site is just kind of monopolized it, I guess. Yeah. Kids between age of two and seven. It's a little easier to control what they do. And if you're an attentive parent, who only wants them to use you kids, you can probably pull that off. But if you have a kid between the age of say. Eight and twelve that's a kid, who's already dreaming of being like their older sister brother, who doesn't want to be limited to Justice kids app that has probably seen as pretty they want to be on YouTube. And frankly, the U two kids that might not have enough to satisfy them. And so they're going to want to use regular YouTube, and there just aren't enough safeguards on regular YouTube in the same way that there is on TV network like Nickelodeon, or the Disney channel fact is look, yes, they might go on to watch one thing, they might go under watch, you know, their favorite prank, which, though, being really being name is child friendly, but that could then lead to place because you have inexhaustible library and videos on YouTube. It's really unsafe for children, Lucas reporter with Bloomberg where he writes about the business of entertainment and technology, Lucas, as always, thanks so much. You can read Lucas coverage of the entertainment industry at Bloomberg dot com. Coming up on the frame, the Irish actress who plays a Scottish singer, trying to make it big in Nashville. KPCC podcasts are supported by HBO, presenting sharp objects based on the bestselling novel by Gillian Flynn. The story focuses on Camille precursor a journalist with a history of psychiatric issues who returns to a rural hometown to cover the apparent murders of two preteen girls. The limited series was hailed by critics. Exquisite auntie compelling and a true masterpiece. Emmy eligible for outstanding limited series and all other categories. Visit H B O dot com slash FIC. For more on sharp objects. Welcome back to the frame. I'm Steven Cuevas in for John horn. Thanks for joining us. The new film, wild rose begins with its feisty main character roseland fresh out of prison. She's got broken relationships to meant to kids to feed and his nursing her own hunger to become a Nashville country music star on actually trying to Nashville. Oh, and I'm meeting today's a couple of grandson. And get flights and hotel. And, and it wouldn't it be more than two or three definitely less than five. In of Saric. Give you money. That's what you'll suggest it was. No. It was aunt roseland isn't just a broke single mom show. So lives, an inconvenient four thousand miles away from Nashville in Glasgow. Scotland, the actress who portrays rose Lynn, Jessie, Buckley, sexually Irish and she got her first big break eleven years ago. Appearing on the BBC TV singing competition called. I do anything. Buckley came in a close second. I don't know how I stick through the Nash because I was. And I was so like innocent and ignorant to the whole business of know. Was it the musical theater was your first love? Yeah. Probably was yeah. Like where I grew up that was kind of my peripheral ping, I could be involved with and yeah, I loved us to the point where I remember one night, I was in production of Jesus Christ Hooper star, and I think my pen deke's was bursting on stage. And I was like I've got to finish. When you need to go to the hospital. I just I loved being part of it. What role did you have? Jesus Christ superstar, you know, hurt spear carrier. Hugely important, probably my best work. Well, what attracted you to Nicole Taylor script for wild rose? I read it. I Tom Harper who worked with an warm peace had got sent the script, and we were having a pint news, like, oh, a real of torito's, I would only want to do it, if you did it. So I love Tom and he told me to lie, down train track, and I'd be like, yeah, sure. What times the train? And when we going, but I then met Nicole. And when I read the script it was just I never really read a, a woman as irreverently fearless, and she's like a tornado in lots of ways. She has come out of prison ready to just take on the world. And she's put blinkers on of everything that might stop her. And so she's trying to run as far away from who she as and where she's from water responsibilities are because she believes that's the only way that she can catch. Her dream? Down the track. And you play a Scottish woman who's like insult with American country music, but you're rich were you aware of any, this music? No, I had no relationship to country music at all moist. After this. And I thought it was I don't know my peripheral was that it was a bit like you. Hake when I found it in phone Redick good stuff in the lyrics really in the stories that exist within the songs are kind of three minute movies. It's compe- stolen, my heart and he's quite like Irish music in ways. There's that kind of tradition in Arlon of the storyteller they call it, they call it the Shanna, he, which is this guy. He's a traveling storyteller who travels from town to town with a box goes into different pubs and stands on this box and recites stories about these different characters that he's met on his travels. And an and even within the music, there's a lot of resemblances with folk Irish music and folk country music, and even the Tanada is quite simple. But it's very emotionally deep talking to Jessie. Buckley who stars in the new film, wild rose. Did you have any say did you have any input over what songs were used for the film from up from other artists? When I was, I kind of coming to terms with country music and learning it and figuring out what rose lanes voice was within the Joe Nora. I would and other musicians like new McColl and Jack aren't not reserve music supervisor we all bottled up the shed of Northland and every two weeks, and there is some songs, which I dunno you're looking, I suppose within the film, the songs are an extension of the scene are sometimes not. But Tony you're looking for something which will tell a story or an emotional piece of what Rosalyn wants to say that she can't say, in her real life, and often, it's energy wise. Some songs we took like country girl, the primal scream song, which is at the very beginning of the film, that was only came kind of later but it was so. Right. And so their version is quite punk rock. Whereas our as we kind of arranged it more country. But it just had. Irreverence and bowls in this, and you can get like more like better kind of feel for the beginning of that film, because you have a sense of who this woman is and where that frustration. And that drive is coming from within that song. Contry. Through the. But it's the thing that's kept growing organically, as we did all the music live and saw some the songs, which is take on their own shape within the scenes a rose. Lynn's quest is to get to Nashville to break into country music. And she I think, has a very romanticized vision of what the city of Nashville is. And what it represents? I know you were not that well acquainted with country music prior to this project, but if someone had asked you, when you were prior to this, what do you think of Nashville? What do you think Nashville is or what it represents, what, what was your idea of the place? It is kind of cowboy boots and kogo hats, and, and dusty bars and some old dude sitting in a bar having drunk too much whiskey. Who's got great story. And you end up spending the whole night with kind of chatting, I don't know what kind of my head smell dusty. Will what was what we're jesse's impressions of, of Nashville when you got there. Well, like we nearly didn't make it to national at first because we when we were initially meant to go our visas got lost. So, you know, and you can't book the Reimann willy nilly, just because your visa gets lost. So we actually didn't think they were going to make and our whole shoot went on hold for, like, four five weeks. We didn't know if you're going to even get that part. So when we got there, it was kind of like resembling Rowsley journey itself. So we got there, and it was like this kind of hallowed ground of like, oh my God, where here. Spirit. So the character roseland her employer, whose wealthy kind of recognizes her talent and helps her get onto this larger stage in front of his audience of people that could support her in your career, and she has a difficult time when she's finally up on that stage but she freezes up the way you played that scene that come from any personal experience. Could you drawn anything that's ever happened to you a performer? Oh, I've had like that. It's never stopped me. Even while I was filming while rules and I was in the really like trusting environment escaping, the most horrendous panic attacks like four seeings. There's always interesting. What scenes were would initiate, the those attacks? But it's never. I mean the thing is you can't that's basically if you're on say on, you know, you're part of a team and you've got pull yourself together and, and Tom was incredible because actually whenever those times would happen. He would take me side and say that what he'd be like, are you? Okay. But he's also like this is very honest. This is human, maybe put it into the scene. See what happens does that? Also apply to win performing a musician. Oh, yeah. Yeah. God who so funny the other the other day we were in Nashville, and we were supporting we did like few songs actually McBride and I definitely I was like a black sheep of like who, who. Like this kind of English, she Irish she like, you know, and they're all gone Ashley kind of real redneck, and I go, and I was quite nervous because she's so brilliant singing guilty. And when you have this amazing song coke guilty. And when you have the aliveness with an audience, like you have to be awake to them. It changes how you sing something? Every time. And as always sing is she's got like these quite incredible Molles wearing Bolshie women, and they're like, oh, we're going to give you feel guilty about sweetness, and I got I, I out laughing I needed making three. This song was such an exciting moment, because they gave you something. And it changes, I mean my nerves were like, screw you Jesse like this is hilarious with that. Actress and singer Jesse. Buckley stars in the new film, wild rose in theaters, June twenty twenty-first. Thank you, Jessie. Thank you. Coming up on the frame, the singer who's known as the Cuban James Brown. U s Cuba relations appear to be sliding back to the Cold War era, in April. The Trump administration announced a new policy reversing changes President Obama put into place, five years ago Cubans who want to visit the US now have to travel to a third country to apply for visas. But that didn't prevent a recent visit to LA by Sima funk. The singer who billboard magazine named one of the top ten Latin artists to watch in twenty nineteen the frame contributor, but the art goes spent some time with a singer whose called the Cuban James Brown. It's a Friday night at the no name restaurant and bar on Fairfax, the blaze is backed with a couple of hundred people as Sima funk and his seven piece band deliver a blistering set of dance music. Sima funk is the brainchild of thirty year old Eric Iglesias, self taught singer, moved to have Anna eight years ago from the province of banana del Rio Iglesias did not attend Cuba's renowned music schools, and he doesn't come from a musical family, but he grew up solving a wide range of music, especially American bop, which you heard on cassettes, in the family car every time that I could get into the cassette. I just literally kill the battery of the of the just Lisa music line. Rishi. Michael Jackson's the Albany, this one of my favorites. My St. walnut. Also. Dando looking. Iglesia has got his first break. You successfully addition to sing background vocals for. Pop singer. Row will pass and began collaborating with different bands and projects. Iglesia has joined interactive will collective project with some of Cuba's, most prominent alternative music figures led by pianist Gerbert oh, carcass during the time he was with interactive will Iglesias and a couple friends created a cover band called la-z-boys, and he started to develop his own musical ideas, because I was crazy with the realize I may I need to start to sperm in the how I can I can know this way to seeing this way to perform the the group. So I say, let's make a ban on, we only gonna do cover from stevia for Michael Jackson. Once we understand what is about this problem that they have, then we pass through all the stuff that was the plan, but instead la-z-boys started making all kinds of other music, like this one called what you think. Those boys got a contract to work for eight months on a cruise ship in the Mediterranean on the tour ended Iglesias had saved enough money to buy the equipment, he needed to record his style them. But he didn't have a name, he learned about the Cimarron culture, runaway slaves and Cuba, who created their own communities and live freely in the forest black people from many places for, for many tribes from, as you from places of other countries on all day was living together with difference, as sounds with different groups who different reverie tools with different, maybe different God, even and they all live together in, they have to live together because was the only way to be to live without be slave. He called on some friends and together, they came up with the name, Sima funk, combining Cimarron and funk. County manager is Regis. He says the respected pianist gotta carcass in gave him. Some valuable feedback deco every media your own car. You're in a car leaving concert on when he heard the record. He said, this is going to be a big thing. That's the first time. I heard that Chas. See my phone has been touring the US for the past six weeks, making stops in sixteen cities, including south by southwest and Austin, New York, Chicago and New Orleans. But this is not a normal US store. I recently caught van having lunch and jamming at San Polian park in LA skit row, an area with a huge homeless population. We always try and make everything to as as much as we can bring Cubans and Cuban culture and thought leaders to the US redo shall we bring a lot of entrepreneurs and cultural axe here, that's calling Laverty the man behind Sima funk store Lavery is leaving expert on US, Cuba relations. He runs Cuba educational, travel an organisation that takes Americans Cuba doing the tour laboratory organized showcases for Google YouTube, a Netflix, I asked him why he took Sima fun to skid row. And he told me what the band said to him upon arriving two nights ago. We performed for Leonardo DiCaprio, and so that stretched alone and a star studded lineup on a forty million dollar mansion in Beverly Hills, overlooking all of the shitty and two days later, we're here in skid row. And so, I think in terms of. Getting a taste of America and understanding and also appreciating what they have another night. Sima funk took part in a Q and A and performance Grammy. Museum moderator Scott Goldman s Teague list. Yes. If he considered himself, a renegade changing the perception of Cuban music he was candid. Recycle what he's done the reading. I know changed any of doing things, I'm pulling music Stein. I'm putting this, this stuff I put together in a personal way. After the QNA Sima funk, perform to one adoring audience that good, not stop dancing, Colin Laverty says my funk has the talent and division to become the biggest modern day Cuban artists. So he is going to be the face accu-. He's going to be the cultural masseter of Cuban. I think that serves a very important role in terms of allowing Americans to understand the talent the kindness and the war of the Cuban people, which he clearly represent liberty says, for sixty years, we've been relying on governments to resolve US Cuba relations, and they haven't done a very good job, but he believes cultural exchange can continue to build bridges, especially with artists like Seema funk for the frame. I'm bet our. I bet. Fema Funke slated to perform, July six part of the data of sound festival in downtown Los Angeles. And that's it for today. I'm Steven Cuevas. Thanks for listening. We're back here tomorrow.

Jessie Buckley YouTube Nashville US Steven Cuevas Seema funk Cuba Emmy Lucas Shah HBO James Brown Tom Harper Los Angeles John horn Bloomberg jesse First Pacific North America rose Lynn KPC
I'M THINKING OF ENDING THINGS - Double Toasted Audio Review

Double Toasted

27:50 min | 11 months ago

I'M THINKING OF ENDING THINGS - Double Toasted Audio Review

"Lee began today as meditation with the few sipping exercises to remind us a little treat can go a long way. So pick up your mccafe iced coffees close your eyes and deep sip Ben. And deep satisfaction out. Sick a treat retreat at McDonald's right now get McAfee iced coffee and any size any flavor for just ninety nine cents until am price of participation may vary. All. Right. Let's talk about this. Hollywood. Most miserable director and writer back again look. What looking like a Sarah as. Be For bummer. I mean, that's Charlie Kaufman. Charlie Kaufman is known for. A doing some very, very very. Creative storytelling on his own terms man you know not only with visuals like the guy that the way he spins his narratives in historians just creates visuals whatever directors taken over like. Being John Malkovich. Done John a spike Jonze directed that and. Eternal Sunshine on the spot I love that movie me to people really not a lot of people You know it's been a long time. It's been about twenty years has been out for anybody GonNa Jim Carey and you still think he's all up you know that the. Masonic you still think he's the crazy guy that does stupid. Stuff his face look at this and you see that. With the right thing when people give him a chance, he's actually really good dramatic actor. No. No. That was funny. Because because my youngest she was like Jim Carey because she remembers was Mr Poppers Penguins and She's hated him. I was like, all right. We got a cure that he went from the cable guy to you. Philip Morris and Eternal Sunshine and spotless mind now how you feel about Jim Carey yeah man. All right Philip Morris. Philip Morris he's great. Net I. Even hear he's good in a TV show that he's got also right right right but. Andrew. Directed that and one thing about these movies is that they're they're incredibly incredibly visual. They're also very inventive with the storytelling combined they make great movies. He's also directed himself. And he is. I mean if he can do that for other people. I mean think about what he does when he's when he's got his own project, he'll take it a step further. He's like you know what anyone mess with human beings with this. One Annemie puppets for this story. Really sad really depressed as. fucking. Miserable. Puppets. Is it. What is it? Is it to be alive. Each person you speak to as didn't they. have. been. Good. Some bad. H I view spe to had a childhood. He has body. Body. So you can see, do don't kill himself. He's just a puppy. Let me go hang himself. I absolutely love that movie to people and some have been like. Jesus why don't you even make me watch status ruined my day. Is, good. People either my wife and I saw that day they showed this another movie the big short I think when so this AMMO LISA Anomalies. A novel Anomaly, which I love this movie games in the but I love this. I think it's amazing film. raising animated film and Film. Period But Martin's rain. You know the thing is guys inventive. He's creative. He does things differently. He's also very fucking depressing. Yeah. Sad fuck unlike. Like is thing you know they talk about how how you have autour. In Hollywood and they all do their own thing. You know maybe like the fairly brothers you know they they do gross out comedies gwen Tarantino he loves violent some pop culture jokes in feet and saying word. and. This guy was his worst. Trait of being artur, he's just saying. With Anderson does the awkward. People Charlie Kaufman does the sad depressed people yes, he does. He ever see seductively. Yes. I did I even up here. Come on Man Yeah Right. I like life don't bring me down to. Go get go get some medication. Lead me the fuck alone. Say. To states stay the fuck away A. Little while. This movie come into net flix. called. I, mean it don't tell you anything. I mean he's before you even see the movie and you know what this is about I'm thanking of ending. Thanks. And wonder what that means. Is it a relationship or? Life or is it? Is it all of it chances are? It's all of the above. Let's go ahead. You you know the actors in here Jesse Jessie Buckley and Jesse Clements Jesse Plymouth to Jesse's been here. I think then the to Jesse's that sounds like a comedy does Now. Cough movie. This is going to be on Netflix. Friday righty yeah. And take a look. At the trailer for this and we'll be back and is if it doesn't depress you. Don't go. Back, but we'll be right back to give you a review after this. Boyfriend. It's snowing enter is coming. Connection. Rare intense attachment. I've never experienced anything. Things. Say something. Weird. Shakespeare's for the first time. He hasn't been my boyfriend for very long really are looking forward to meeting you. I think you've endings things. Hello Right. Dog is almost. Our Dog was doing. That dog they'll stop. Yeah. No. Way when you play it, back my oh yes. The Dog. Charlie. Goddamn don't like damn man. You even got the dog depress. Dow. Trying to shake this. I'm GONNA kill myself. Lead to take the about like what the fuck is happening. which you will say a lot if you watched his moving. Near. They. Sound much about you. told me so much about both J two and J. Tells me you're studying quantum psychics. Okay. I haven't seen trailer. Watch the move but I, have seen is. Got Them Doug which shaking. Try to pay attention was having that same. So by like get off of white people. Accept Everybody's. Why In fact, this is what he likes sitting nigger felt like. I'm around white people and I'm white. Six. Thank. Yeah. I'm? Glad take you. Addition To. These drove me crazy. So. Don't open the door. I tell you I would misplace. It wasn't screwed onto my own head i. feel like I. See. We're. Seeing the MESSI will pick seeing the math. To stay here. Excuse me. He don't have to go. To go wear. Forward. People like to take themselves as points moving through tiny. Is a opposite. Stationary. Passes through? Towing cold wind. Maybe, this is how. A Spoil, everybody the dog does not shake through the whole movie. They did that just for the trailer because I seen that trailer before because I had I would I would have been disappointed because I wanted the dog to sink hole moving well, fuck that was misleading. So. I kind of think it's safe to say that. This is probably a horror movie but done in Charlie Kaufman's way. That's very good. Which means you recognize as a horror movie right? Be is very, it is listed as a psychological horror. It is. Yes. Yes. Wag like when I went to to watch it, that's how it was listed psychological horror and so the movie starts it's It starts with a lot of awkward awkwardness humorous. Goes into squirm and is this feeling of impending dread? Yes. So much of it. And the novel it's taken from is listed as a harm. A. Horror novel psychological, horror novel, okay. But as you say. When it should go to horror at that time where okay. Enough of being creepy let's get to the actual harm. Goes through the Charlie Kaufman filter. Yeah exactly. Look so. Once it was done I actually saw where it was going because Martin is right to the whole the whole time. There's Just a very uncomfortable Phil. And I had to say it does give you that sense of dread like a Har- movie except if you watch it. You if you don't see the category, you probably won't think that the Zohar move you probably just thinking this is bothering me just because it's weird and sometimes these people get them a fucking nurse as funny 'cause I was identifying with the character. Jesse Buckley's character who doesn't have a real name kind like the protagonists in A. intended. But I got roped into something like that going home with a girl for Christmas to meet her parents when I knew I was going to break. was trying to get out of it and she's just trying to be nice sounds like okay and it was just that whole awkward thing the whole time. So watching this I had extra butterflies in my stomach. Yeah. Our uncomfortable. Watching this the whole time and there was just this feeling that something horrible was about to happen at any moment like you would expect an are moving, but it was only because everything is so not just even awkward. Everything just gets strange. Like these people they they they behave like insane people you have. Like the parents that they go see here. The parents the play by Toni? Collette. and. David. Foolish. Like there's not they act like they are serial killers. In a movie are in a horror movie like they act like people that you because the whole time I was thinking and it doesn't go this way. But the whole time I was thinking like this woman is trapped in the House with these crazy people is this a blizzard on our side now this has been any normal horror movie. This would turned into the Texas chainsaw massacre. They would chase a who acts to the house trying to eat flesh there's a blizzard outside. So there's that feeling of being trapped. Now you can't get away and the parents are weird. A almost like bordering on insane and the boyfriend you've come with. obstensibly serial killer because he looks like he's gritting his teeth like he's ready to kill the parents and everybody loses because he's losing his temper at at at the slightest thing nothing is normal here but then movie stars to like do these things where they play, they start playing with time. They start playing with dialogue people we talking about one thing in the dialogue will come out of nowhere referring to something else and then go right back to the conversation that you had before. There's a there's parts relationships with change people seem like strangers before, and then they'll be intimate in the next scene like the hugging each other like they've known each other a long time that Goddamn dog won't stop shaking the music. Is Minimalist Music one known. Like a fly or something. And the whole time you sitting there and all of a sudden what seemed like is like a a cabin, the woods type movie except this is a farm on a blizzard. It all of a sudden it's turned like feels like a supernatural but. As Martin was saying this is Charlie Kaufman movie and I will say this when they get to that house to meet the parents those parts awesome because it just feels crazy. But Don't. Let them get their car. Manny. When they get that Saying. They get in their car. And they. Start talking. In everything slows down in, this turns into a movie that that college student at the college film students but like. Because this is a movie that tried you know the dialogue sounds deep There's a of literary references in there was a lot of we references hipster movie talk they talk about people like, oh What do you feel about John Cassavetes? Shit, it's also very philosophical. Very academic parts. It's almost it almost takes on a bit of snobbery as. A Jab, at people I Robinson Meka's they take a jab at mainstream filmmaking. And when they're in that car. Is like listening to to to to academics talk about absolutely nothing but they're just talking because they think that they sound smart. Then even talking to each other veggies talking to please themselves it's it's an interesting thing because. With for all the sympathy, a half of this girl in this situation once they get in the car start driving that drains away and I'm like. Yeah I mean if you're GONNA kill it and You have my blessing. Yeah. Yeah. In fact. Get involved. Yeah. Both into a fucking tree and go through that window shoe. Because you know there there's A. It. When their house a win whenever they get out the car it takes on this other worldly failed to wear feels like a complete nightmare they're they're surrounded by the surrounded by darkness like that blizzards out there. Like wouldn't drive into car there surrounded by nothing they stop at an ice cream stand that's in the middle of nowhere it seems like purgatory something. It's the always surrounded by complete darkness even when they got that car, the movie takes a different tone. It feels like a nightmare with the car. It feels like a nightmare of different types like I just WanNa. Hear y'all anymore to shut the fuck up. Like really been around to people too smart for their own. Good. Plus it's such a it's such an odd thing. Throws you to watch them be in the middle of Blizzard and stopped to get ice cream treats. Something about that and with that ice cream Stan, there's a whole history. Lot Lot of stuff built up around that. Yeah I mean there's things that keep you wondering I mean, even ice cream stand is like okay. Does somebody do something this flashbacks that keep happening to a janitor high school and you start to wonder how these things connect was gone so that the movie does keep you interested as far as if you don't open the car door jump out at some point, you stick with it there's A. There's a lot to keep you interested in from it listen a Har- movie. Done by some Art House Guy Who and it does not come across as a horror movie but there's always feeling of of just a a e of uneasiness. You always feel like you on edge watching this and. Stick with that then. Ula. There's things that very, very interesting things to try to put together now whether you and it's almost like at the end of it. It's one of those movies where there is no real. Answer that you can pick up right away. You'll have your product to go and find theories about it. You probably to find out what this author says about it. Yes. Because I feel like this is the theme for the night. Watching it. Yeah. When we talked about the endless car ride and it seemed like stuff was connecting and I think you talk about jumping car I think. Emotionally SORTA. Did. So. Then when I Came back. I was like. Wait what is this doing now? Yeah, we were and now and now this and you're doing this. And it's over. Where was this another jerk off? And then and just like how is this? Psychological horror. So then I went on start doing some research looked up the novel is based on bread with that was about and I was like Oh then actually was har is just that at that point with a Har- actually really comes in Charlie Kaufman went a completely different way. Okay. Yea He when he Did his own thing. But then upon reading that and seeing it, then I really went back and rewatch the second half of this a second time. I was like. Oh I see now it's not a horror movie again, what this is all about. Yeah. It such that you got to. Do Deep. Dives and watch the second time to really get. It was like man it's really like there's so much creative stuffy does here. Just just in the filming the the setups, the shots, the bring in animation at different. Yes and telling you know what you don't figure out is the story until the end I it's one of those things where I was like man I'm really not liking this. Okay, and now I have a better. Appreciation for it a lot better. Yeah I know I do appreciate it. Especially artistic side. Right. especially with everything he's bringing you not thing about Charlie Kaufman where he loves doing a kind of camera work that he does he you know. This guy is a true artist behind the camera I mean he he paints his own pictures you. Know specially in like this this. So many creative shots to give this sense of loneliness. Top Del shots at the car the millen nowhere. The car in the middle of nowhere with snow only coming down on top of it and surrounded by blackness. Creepy people that just behave in certain ways but I love the I love the set design right there. Yeah. Bringing in animation to do certain things. In this plane with shots like shots that repeat themselves over and over again on that I. Really. Do like it. Man I. See. This is what I'm talking about when you just have me focus on this and see what's happening. Just kind of like all right now wanna put together and everything here no big action steam coming out this big. There's no big chase through the house by somebody with a knife anything this sticks to be in some weird sort of just weird narrative like I need to just put the pieces together on this at some point. You know the only thing that really has me floating between my rating is I did not like those scenes in the car I don't like long conversations that seemed pretentious to me. And they spend. Let's move this. Another movie is two hours fourteen. I know I know that that what's in the fatal flaw of stuff like I? I do like experimental things but I don't like when they let them run and go and go and go because I. think it takes away from what is trying to do. So I you know I I read like this and probably again, I said this tenant if I see it again in upstart put together it might it might be better movie I might appreciate it more and I'm really eager to go look at some of the theories behind this I want to read up on this. I love this kind of stuff but. even when they do their own thing like. The climax here plays out like a true horror film. But in Charlie Kaufman fashion in let me just say this the narrative plays out like a horror movie the way it's actually filmed and done does not know it will not scare you it. In fact, you would probably get your sense of dread eased as you can't into it especially near the end by the end up, you're going to be like, fuck I was scared. I know. A. Hard On. ME. Pumped up for. A big scared. My my heart. Was it. I was I was in my rental where the shoots were ready to just pump it out. Oh and then nothing. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Imagining I tell you. I can put it like this without spoiling imagine a kill is getting ready to kill you and he pulls up that knife and throws glitch. The prize though is. is on that level but. I read like it though I do I do but I can't bring myself to even. Those car scenes to the point where I can't bring myself to even go matinee I'll go very high rental in a which is good because Netflix's anyway because again, I, think this is for this is the kind of movie that makes critics when they see people talking and he's big theories and you know especially talking about you know film history and some deep dive Kinda way critics really love that kind of stuff. Movies movies, snobs that kind of stuff film students let kind of stuff. I don't particularly care for myself but I can see why a lot of people like this a lot but it's a high rental from me. Yeah if you look on rotten tomatoes has got super high scores and. Really Yeah and I skim through the reviews and it's Charlie. Kaufman is a critic Darling and. You can see that's what it is like even when people see what's not good about it, they go. Yes but and this this and this. And I for me the my I go through watching it. It was it was. Just a regular rental at best it was bordering on a low rental. because. It was a frustrating experience but having read up on an and re watched the second half of it again, it bumps it up to a low matinee for me. Yeah. That's cool. Yes. Hi Rental for me. Reminded me more like where I love dollars. Moves like I don't like all his movies right? There's a lot of my really do like that whether he wrote are ready. He directed Allama. Redo. Like but this one was more like that. What is What is it? Yes enacted a new New York. Appointed you somehow. Disappointing. The more you know someone I don't know what I'm doing knowing that you don't know the most essential step to knowing you know I want you to beg me on your knees for. Investigate the essence of each being weirdly close to what I visualized for this character to be able to close the smell. Menstruating I don't know A. Arkansas immensely. You know. He. was never going in I was never gonNA escape. That's another one I think is over two hours and I'M Like man just let me go. Theater watching it. Diane Yeah. Please pay. One thing is if I not that Jesse planet has a beautiful voice. Is that him saying yeah. Good I. I really do like the movie I just think it's too long. Yeah. But I I really do and like I said if I saw a second time, it might bump it up for me too. Yeah. It's just an really it's it's the realization of what this is about. Okay so I I would give it. Okay I might. Go see another time going well, maybe that high. I'll watch it again. I Don I doubt it because I don't have that sound, but I'll probably maybe I'll will because my wife might, WanNa see it I'll watch it again. Maybe maybe if I change my mind if I see it again, you'll hear about it like I say right now it is on Netflix Nip. It sounds like something from everything new we said you're on the artistic level of filmmaking. Is. Definitely worth a watch. I'll tell you that I mean. So netflix's if you have it definitely watch it. If that's thing. Now, if you're looking for something that's more mainstream do not I don't want to hear your shit if you watch this right. Exactly. That's why. I gotta give to ratings on this. Yeah. Don't don't don't come back man and she was crazy. Yeah, we told you. Told you stay screw born? I can see my son Giuliano. May I know going on mission? She told me about the I tell you to watch it anyway. Craziness. Things. Should say something. Thanks so. Weird. I'm visiting shakes parents for the first time. He had been my boyfriend for very long. Looking forward to meeting you. Lee began today's meditation with the few sipping exercises to remind a little treat can go a long way. So pick up your mccafe iced coffees, close your eyes and deep sip been. And deep satisfaction out. Take a treat retreat at McDonald's right. Now McAfee is coffee any size and any flavor for just ninety nine cents until eleven am price of participation may vary introducing touch free payments from pay pal a safeway for your customers to pay whether you're a market seller. Poodle. Piano tuner. Or plummer. Signing up to accept touch free payments for your business is easy. Simply download the pay pal APP and display your own unique qr code for your customers to scan touch free qr code payments no seller fees until twenty twenty one not applicable to pay your transactions. Other fees may apply shop. Safe. With pay POW.

Charlie Kaufman Netflix Blizzard Martin McAfee Jesse Jessie Buckley Hollywood Lee McDonald Jesse Diane Yeah Philip Morris Jim Carey John Malkovich Cough Sarah Andrew spike Jonze
Wild Rose (Featuring JD Duran)

Piecing It Together Podcast

57:54 min | 2 years ago

Wild Rose (Featuring JD Duran)

"<music> all right welcome to piecing it together the podcast where we take a look at a new movie and try to figure out what movies inspired it. I'm your host David Rosen something I do on the show. Do I say I'm your host David Rosen. I don't know I don't think I normally do but hey I am your host David Rosen so nice to meet everybody today on the show. We are looking at a a really great movie. I it's in limited release right now. It's called Wild Rose Stars Jessie Buckley as a up and coming country singer who is from Glasgow and is trying to launch a country music career while also balancing that with actually trying to be a mother to her two young children is a fantastic film with a wonderful central performance by Jessie Buckley. Who is somebody who has been on a lot of people's radars lately as disgrace up and coming actress <hes> she was in beast and she was in the T._v.? Show Chernobyl which I actually haven't seen yet <hes> and she's going to be on season four or Fargo so a lot of Jessie Buckley upcoming but <hes> join me for this one is Jaydee durant from in session film podcast which is a great film podcast that I actually got to guest on recently <hes> but we will jump into this conversation and I do want to tell you if you haven't seen seen it make sure to go see it while it's still in theaters. It's in limited release. You may have to hunt for it but it is worth watching Garcia alright so today on the show and it'd be talking about wild wild rose and with US J._d.. Duran from in session film podcast in session is a show that I got to be on a couple of months back. We talked about a long shot which we never did get around to doing an episode on but it was a lot of fun getting on their show talking and I'm really glad to have J._d.. Here J._D.. How's it going? Hey thanks for having me glad to be here like you said my first time. It's been a busy week as we are rounding out. The summer are getting close to it. Funny Enough August for us is a really busy month despite the fact that there's not a ton of interesting at least mainstream films that come out in August but sure any circuit did did the indy circuit is where August I think really searched the ramp up plus. There's a retrospective that we do every August on our show as well some visiting prepping for that and the lion king is coming out this weekend so that offers I own stresses as well so it's been very busy but I am glad to be here particularly for this specific episode. I'm I'm pumped yeah. I know we were talking about wild rose when I was on your show it briefly and <hes> yeah is a great movie. I just get that out of the way right away. I was looking forward to it for a long time and it actually did not disappoint before we get into talking about. Why don't you tell people a little bit about your <hes> podcast? Yes so like you said we are in session. Film be have two primary shows on Monday is our main show or myself and my co host burning cassidy. We typically review some sort of new release. Yes we tried to aim for some of your more bigger releases more mainstream releases <hes> with a couple of indies thrown an from time to time or in the case of this last week. We did easy rider because there was nothing great right coming out seldom <hes> we mix it up a little bit but we usually have some sort of main review. We have a top three segments. We have some other news. Discussions are other films that we've caught up with <hes>. It's a pretty jampacked show and on Friday we have a show called extra film where <hes> there are two other hosts that kind of handle the four over there and that show is mostly dedicated to <hes> indie films chiefs <hes> in of the New Year or sometimes we'll throw in some classic films the guys that Casa Blanca Elastic for example so <hes> it's it's a little little mixture of everything we try to cover the gamut mant <hes> when when it comes to film so <hes> that that's mostly what we do you can find us at <hes> in session film Dot Com there you can find links this show you can find <hes> features we have written reviews over there and of course you can find <hes> the all of the podcasts and all the links to show and everything there so again. That's in session film Dot Com right on so yeah. I guess let's jump into talking about wild rose. I've got a bunch of puzzle pieces here. I'm sure are you do to you got to see this a while back. Though right yeah it was right before it went on vacation which was in the mortgage toward the end of June so it's been a good month since I've Seen uh-huh Yeah I've I've been waiting and waiting finally opened here in Vegas this past week <hes> and yeah I mean definitely lived up. I mean we've been it seems like we've been getting music film. After music film after Music Film and you know you Kinda go into the next one like well you know. I know there's a lot of good buzz for it but you know I hope it. Does something a little different something. You know interesting yeah. It's certainly lived up to it. Though yeah I think so as well I I mean for listeners of our. I shall know that I love this or even. If you follow me on social media I have been ring the bell for for a month since I've seen it. It is currently my favourite film of the year. I absolutely love it. <hes> in in particular there for two main reasons one Jessie Buckley Star or performance is stunning. Oh He's so so good and the other major reason is that it's a film that is about music but it's about a single mother essentially who has these aspirations and dreams and she pursues those ambitions to a fault right she <hes> essentially abandoned her two young kids. We'll leave them a strangers or with her mom to go and do what she needs to. In order to pursue this dream and it's this constant dichotomy throughout the film of her having to battle the this ambition addition. She has to be a country singer but she also does love her kids. I think we do see that you know the the the conflict of that and the Roseland character in that film is <hes>. It's something that I'm sure a lot of us can relate with I talked about on our show that you know even doing this podcast and session film or guesting on other shows such as yours right now. That's something that I have to balance in my personal life with my own son so even right now as we are doing this. I had to try to get him to bed before coming on the show and I was trying to get everything settled with my wife so that way the rest of tonight can go smooth so I could go back out of the show with you that is exactly the Jill the dilemma for Roseland in this film and it's handled so beautifully adding and for me. It's my dogs but it's basically the same thing. So why don't we jump into some puzzle pieces. What do you got for your first puzzle will first of all for a little bit of context as I was doing this exercise? I came to the realization that I might not be great at this Game Abe because as I typically write out my notes and think about certain films and wrestle with them I try to be deeply involved in the film itself. It's not often that I try to think about maybe what has inspired another film unless it's obvious to me when it comes to me as I'm writing my notes so I was thinking through wild rose and I was like what what could have inspired this film. What is it connected to and I struggled a little bit with this so jeff but I do have a couple of connections here and the first film that came to mind for me was actually the Jonathan Demme film from just a few years ago rookie in the flash starring mill streep not sure if you saw that one or not but it's about a musician in that film played by Meryl Streep who gave up her dream of rock and roll stardom <hes> because she wants to make things right with her family and and in a similar way that film ends up going in a very different route and ricky the street character is much older than Rosalyn in wild rose but there is similar notions as far as being a musician and for Ricky having? Having to give that up because she is wanting to you know remedy some gaps within the relationship she has in her family and that's essentially what Roseland is doing in some ways or at least she's having to battle that as far as you know does she give up her dream speaking of Roseland does she give up her dream of going to Nashville for the sake of her family for the sake of her children so I do think there are some parallels to be made with ricky and the flash and <hes> and enriching the flash has music like wild rose. That's that's very good so sure are some great similarities between the two yeah absolutely at and you know obviously Meryl Streep Amazing Actress and Jessie Buckley at the beginning of their career but already already turning enroll great performance after performance. I mean only a few things so far but just fantastic young actress but yeah absolutely I mean as I start going through some of my puzzle pieces. Definitely there's GonNa be some some music. Movies involved at least got three that I wanted to point to specifically but I definitely think that that's a great one to kick it off with. <hes> ricky in the flash has a definite you know parallel there. I think so for sure <hes> and I'm trying to remember if I did see that I certainly remember it as from. What was that about like seventy years ago so I think it was I think it was twenty? Fourteen or two thousand fifteen saw so not that long that so yeah about four or five years ago I think <hes> but definitely one that came to mind for me given again got two female protagonists that are you know having to battle shore very similar dichotomy so absolutely right on well. I'm going to go ahead with my first puzzle piece and before I get into a few music ones. I did want to mention this one I I it was kind of the first one that came to mind. It's the two thousand six film Sherry baby with Maggie Jilin one hall as a woman who's just finished a stint in prison and she's coming out and she's trying to put her life together but she really isn't necessarily doing a great job of it <hes> to begin with and just the struggles that she goes through and of course she is not a <hes>. You know rockin roller anything like that. She's not a country star <hes>. She's not making music and performing but she is. You know you know risking her rehabilitation in ways. It just makes you just oh just very almost on edge in a way of just like like. is she going to be able to pull this together. Am I not going to hate this person by the movie Geno and you know look luckily rose you know her arch takes her in a really really great direction <hes> by the end by the end of wild rose at which by the way I know worry about spoilers on this show we always are famous spoilers but yeah so Sherry baby was the first movie that kind of popped in my head as a starting to think of this the first non music one I should say yeah. That's an interesting. That's an interesting pig. I will admit I haven't seen it but A._M.. Familiar with the film and it does seem like when you read about that film or even just reading the premise of it that it will have a lot in common with or a wild rose so yeah. That's a very interesting pig right on <hes>. So what do you got for your next one and so the next one for me is it's not so much a film boat more so a filmmaker. I thought a lot about Ken loach <hes> the British filmmaker with films such as I Daniel Blake and the angel's share his films tend to wrestle with <hes> not just the characters ambitions or whatever it is that is driving them but he also delves into places and politics and how that affects the characters in his films as well so <hes> that is something we also see in wild rose that glass cow and Scotland <hes> it's it's almost a character in the film sure and it becomes more important to Rosalyn as we get to the climax of the film and after she goes to Nashville and she experiences that a little bit and has an epiphany of love what Glasgow means to her and I love the that social dynamic of how place becomes a big component for Roseland and while rose and Ken loach's films are that to a t- <hes> <hes> dealing with a lot of you know the the social economics or politics of certain places and how it affects the characters in his films so I do think there is big inspiration <hes> in in wild rose from Ken Loach's filmography sure yeah I I actually haven't seen those movies but I am so very much aware of his like like his reputation as a film maker you know and and and definitely that like <hes> that that very just kind of gritty portrayal of that very specific kind of a place and setting and every and really bringing that out yeah absolutely and and I haven't seen all of his films but of those that I have seen I absolutely love how he's able to to kind of tap into that. which is you know like I said a big component of while rose that that I loved so yeah I I very much recommend Ken Loach? He may not be for everybody because he's quite methodical and <hes> maybe his humor isn't going to work for everybody. There's there's certainly more humor in loach's films than I would say that is in wild rose but <hes> I think fundamentally though there's a lot out of similarities between the two though all right well speaking of China capture a very specific place to a very specific like <hes> environment and in the kind of people in that environment. I'm the first music movie I wanted to bring up because it was the I tried to think what is the one like. This is like kind of the I felt the biggest parallel to and this might seem a little silly but to me it was it was it just makes a lot of sense is actually the eminem him pseudo biopic eight mile and the rea the reason why is because I feel like they're you know obviously every music bio pic you know their struggles and there's all the struggles they have to go through and it kind of becomes a little bit of a cliche but I think that for both rose in this movie as well as be habit in an eight mile there already in the struggles from the beginning of their career and it's not it's not struggles that are hitting them all as their rising and through the career and they're not dealing with people you know like New People coming into the picture and ruining things. It's the constant struggle. That's been a part of their life life forever you know and it's just this these people are. They're struggling people and so I just I felt a real connection there to to that kind of story even though and I guess it's not that far removed the world of hip hop in the world sort of like down and dirty country yeah absolutely and eight mile is another film where place is significant characters where they find themselves so yeah I do agree with you that the struggles that they find themselves and were immediately the N. there right away and they're having to learn to overcome that and yeah where they live the economics of it the politics of it absolutely affects both Roseland and <hes> <hes> Jimmy B Rabbit Smith Yeah that's a great pick right and I and also before we move to the next one I was just thinking as I was writing my notes. I haven't watched eight mile in a while. I gotTa Wash that again that movie I mean I don't know how old you are but like I was. I think twenty four when it came out twenty three twenty four I made it was so awesome at the time I was. I was in highschool so I was maybe a junior sophomore or something like that on buds. I'm from Michigan. Oh you are very familiar with eight mile the actual place of eight mile on ice and you know what that's like and and obviously eminem story is very familiar unknown there and so yeah that that film had a little bit of of a connection at that time and I would say in high school I was probably more into hip hop than any other show of music <hes> so now it's a film that very much connected with me. I will say though I don't know if I expected that film or Hip hop in general to this cat after you started talking about it. Just clicked was like absolutely this film has an influence on Melrose for awesome awesome. What do you got for your next and it is funny because the next one I wanted to bring up? Here is a very very different than something like. Eight Mile I actually have here the <hes> nineteen eighty three film tender mercies starring Robert Duvall and this is somewhat like ricky in the flash but a little bit different in the sense that the default character is a struggling musician such as ricky and ricky in the flash and so you do have the parallels they are as far as Roseland also struggling as we just got done talking about so despite the age gap between <hes> devolves Mac character and Rosalyn Redo initially see that they're they're still trying to do music and where I think Mac has some similarities to Rosalyn is that eventually a child becomes involved in his story. He meets this <hes> owner of a motel <hes> Rosa Lee played by Tesla Harper and she has a son inch and MAC MAC begins to bond with a Rowsley and her son and that becomes a huge component to the film as far as him battling between do. I want to continue to struggle as musician do I is that something I still WanNa do or do I you know kind of shift gears and you know maybe move my life in a different direction and become this surrogate father to this little boy whose father had been killed in Vietnam if I remember correctly so it's been awhile since I've seen the film button <hes> there is again a similar dichotomy there for Mac and film is far as musicianship and children and in how Mac is caught between those two ends of the spectrum so tender mercies is definitely one that I think fits the bill hare and emotionally speaking. I think it's it's also very complementary to wild rose right on yeah. I actually funny enough. I had never heard of tender mercies and I see here that <hes> he won best actor for it <hes> Yeah Yeah Yeah and this is a film that I wouldn't of watched <hes> if it wasn't for my father who he grow up in Mississippi so he's much more of a country music fan than I was like I said I was more of the hip hop guy in high school but this was something that drew his eye and so I decided to to watch it with him and like so like I said it's been awhile since I've seen the film but when doing research in <hes> in trying to come up with some connections here that foam kind of popped into the brain and <hes> yeah I definitely found some parallels there sure absolutely <hes> right on will I'm going to go with my next puzzle piece and to the next one I wanted to bring up is actually the movie that Jeff Bridges won an Oscar for a crazy heart and that's on my list here too. You're right on and you know obviously there's a lot of differences when it comes to the actual story being told you know with rose being at the beginning of her you know would be careered Jeff Bridges being at the end and you know the the real reason that I was going to get connected and then we'll see what you have to say but <hes> it was mainly mainly because the the music specifically are very much inspired by the exact same country artists those those same like you know real just down and dirty rock and country artists of old school country and both have incredible soundtracks. If you're into that yeah absolutely that's part of why I had it written down here too. I love the soundtrack to crazy art and Jeff Bridges performances is absolutely wonderful but I also think and you can make a connection in the sense that the bridges character in that film his life takes a turn once he starts <hes> connecting and having a relationship with someone that is not in that same world. I guess I'll say <hes> so this might be stretching or it might be a little bit vague but you I guess you could connect that to Roseland in the sense of that. Her life starts to also turn around once she <unk> starts spending more time with her children when she starts <hes> making that a priority such as bridges and the relationship he has what the journalist <hes> that's when you can see both characters kind of making that turn toward a positive I I guess I guess you could say and maybe that affects their music. <hes> and away not necessarily Bali. It just takes it. Maybe in a little bit of a different direction than maybe what they would have. I saw previously to establishing shing those relationships so do you think there's also parallels there but yeah the soundtrack piece of this. Oh my gosh yeah yeah great music. I've actually been listening to it on spotify all young the first one fantastic and I love I love that they opened with the cover of primal screams country girl to which I was so good yeah yeah right on well. What do you got for your next one so the next one that I have here and again this might be a little bit of a stretch because the film about to bring up is ultimately very very different than wild rose but did you see the Florida Florida project from a few years ago? Yes I love the Florida project so I thought about the Florida project a lot when watching wild rose particularly that first half of wild rose when Rosalyn is very selfish rush and her needs come first regardless of the ramifications no matter what kind of awkward situation she puts her kids in as we've said or her mom or even her neighbors having to watch our kids and similarly <hes> brief innate taste character of Halle in the Florida project. <hes> is very much into herself and is quite selfish and <hes> doesn't necessarily have an eye on her daughter all of the time <hes> I. I do think that we see that Halley has a love for her daughter earlier than than what we see with Roseland in wild rose <hes> I I don't know if there was ever a moment throughout the Florida project where I question her love for her daughter but there is a selfishness. There is <hes> a now. I'm going to take care of myself. You know even if that means I'm going to be oblivious to some of my responsibility but I do think some of the things that Halley does even in that selfishness is is as actually to in a weird way take care of our daughter yeah and so though the route the arts of both of those characters I would say is as vastly different but there is some similarities in as far as them being a single mom and how they are sometimes lost as far as motherhood and responsibility goes <hes> for the sake of whatever's driving both of them regarding their ambitions yeah if that makes sense no absolutely. I think that's a great puzzle piece. I hadn't even thought of that now. That's Kinda got me thinking about when I think of the Florida project it just it feels like such a you know two thousand ten's America movie and this being set in a different country. It's interesting that they would have their own kind of you know moment that is similar to that and that you know there's this sir you know. There's this sub section of the population is living you know through such struggle and everything and you know and you know certainly her her decisions. Earn you know you know always the best decisions but <hes> you you know she's kind of have a hard deal of of life you know so yeah not surprising that something's going that direction absolutely and another film where places significant speaking of the Florida and that being in Orlando there's so an interesting juxtaposition though and that Orlando doesn't necessarily become a safe haven like Glasgow does for Rosalyn but at the same time you could argue that you know Halley's alleys Nashville if you will is literally in the same town where she's she's actually living because Disney and all of that is just down the road so I mean it's like they want to be there but they can't ever be there. That's never a reality for them. So it's interesting. How the Florida project does you know? Parallel wild rose in that and also is you know like I said juxtaposes it but yeah I I love the Florida project so much. You're probably have to stop me or I'm just GONNA keep. I do not blame you. It is absolutely fantastic right on. I'm going to go with my next one the last music movie on my list here and it's a kind of even though it's very very surface level it's Kinda hard to escape it and that is a star is born on just in the entire format of the music movie is just I think we talked. Earlier about how there's just been music movie after music movie after music movie lately I think a lot of that is because a star is born is on the brain within the world of Hollywood and outside the indie communities yeah and I mean this. Is You know very much. I almost the opposite you know story wise. I mean it's it's completely different but I do think that especially I mean we've talked about a star is born on our vox Lux episode. We talked about it on her smell episode. I mean it's hard to look at a music movie especially one with a woman as the as the you know the main protagonist and not think about the stars born formula from the the old versions as well as the newest one yeah yeah that was one that came to mind for me as well so i. I almost feel like it's somewhat mandatory because there there is a lot between the two films that you can you can see as far as puzzle pieces go. I will say though it's interesting that you brought up her smell and I wasn't sure if I should write this down as a connection because they came out just months apart for each other so I don't think we can say that ads. They were inspired by each other in any sort of way but I will say like if we're just connecting the films <hes>. I don't think there's any other film at least in the research that I could find. I don't think there's any other film that has more in common with wild rose than her smell. Shore APSOS to films are almost the same movie in a lot of ways as far as you know the the rise and fall of the ambition and how you know the the children of those two characters ultimately become their saving grace. I mean there's a lot about those two stories that are very similar. They the two films approach it very very differently so ultimately each film does stand out on its own but that dichotomy of mute musicianship ambition and how children save I mean that's very very much the same and it's centered around to stunning performances because both moss and her smell <hes> man those those two <hes> speaking of Jessie Buckley and Elizabeth Moss those are my one a and one B of the my favorite moments as hands down yeah it is it's crazy. I I again the the whole music film after music film I mean I I don't know how you feel about vox locks and a star is born but I I love both of those for different reasons but to get to incredible music films last year and then to incredible music films this year. It's pretty pretty wild. It is and there's a whole second half of the year for this year anyway where who knows what we'll see. I loved his stars born. <hes> that's that's a film. I do quite a door. Unfortunately I'm on the other side of the UH of the VOX lox debate. You have to be on one side of the other. There's no there's no middle ground now. I will say though I'm actually in the middle on the film. I I love the first half of the film absolutely door it. I think it's it's as close to being impeccable as it could be but I did not like at all the second half of of that film it I think it's very misguided and as much as I love Natalie Portman and she gives a very committed performance but I don't feel like there's any connective tissue between what she's doing with what we saw with what is essentially the same character that we saw in the first half of the film and because there is a huge time jump between the first half and the second half we there's. There's nothing to explain those differences. It's Johnny affiliates very jody. It is jarring it is and not that the film has to explain everything there is no connective tissue so it felt like two very different films right right and and that was my issue with the film <hes> because it was one that I was loving and then ultimately become mm something else entirely that I just feel like that second half has almost nothing to do with the first half of the film yeah yeah so that that's that's my issue with it but I get it. I Yeah I can see why people love it though as well right odd well. What do you got for your next puzzle well for my next puzzle piece this is I feel like a little bit of a Cheetahs well because I I did talk about this on my show a little bit and it it could be a little bit of a stretch? Maybe this is redundant with some of the other pigs that had here but <hes> when watching wild rose <hes> the the the first time that I saw the film oh a month ago the first film that came to mind for me actually was inside Lewin Davis and that Roseland is a character that while pursuing music like Lewin in that film he just isn't conscience all the ramifications nations of his choices which is exactly what Rosalyn is doing as well now ultimately those two characters go to very different territories but <hes> like Roseanne wanting to get to Nashville to pursue her career Lewin. Davis is on the road constantly trying to do the same thing in fact we see in the film he takes a road trip to Chicago sure because he has an opportunity there which is exactly what Roseland is wanting to to do in Nashville. She thinks they'll be opportunities. There and like Roseland in Nashville Chicago does not work out for Lewin. Honestly I think the only difference between the two characters and I find this juxtaposition and fascinating as that Lewin doesn't have any children any responsibilities to save him from his oblivious nece <hes> right he just wants to pursue music but he doesn't have any sort of grounded centralization to to kind of make sense of the world around him he just kind of drifting and and but he thinks of himself as the next great musician would you might be because has the music of the film is incredible yeah so he he might be the next big thing but he kind of stops himself where Rosalyn she does have that saving grace with our children so she's able to kind of realize that maybe maybe she can only go so far or at least she's. She's willing to put a ceiling on herself because of her children so it evokes this question that I find endlessly fascinating what if Lewin did have a child would would his story end up the same as Roslyn. Maybe it's hard to say because you know that doesn't happen but Roseland was just as lost and just as confused as Lewis Film but she had something that was able to push her off the edge and into reality and Lewin just never really has that he has a scare at the beginning. When there's a confrontation about maybe he got someone pregnant but you know we never really see what the result of any of that is? There's nothing really to to rain enloe and <hes> but I do find the two characters kind of heading in similar directions only only to come to that that fork in the middle of the road you know where on the right is Rosalyn Heading Toward Parenthood and Chore Low and heading to The left just not having that for him so <hes> so that came to mind from a lot when watching while rose absolutely I and I'm always happy to even be thinking about inside Lynn Davis so perfectly happy with you bringing that up as a puzzle piece and I think those are some those those are some really interesting points of view on on those kind of connections and and you know I think they're you know absolutely you know really good insight there. I think it's really good <hes> so I've got one last puzzle. A._P.'s here and this is a movie. I haven't seen in a while so hopefully I'm remembering things properly here in okay in the way I remember it ending but <hes> the Diablo cody film I'm Young Adult <hes> and which you know this this person's just kind of <hes> just kind of messy. Life doesn't really seem to be <hes> you know Oh showing any sign of possibly turning around and the thing is is that I feel like that kind of a trajectory is exactly what rose is not doing here and I feel like it's almost like an anti puzzle piece in a way that it's like inspired to actually have an ending where there is more hope in more <hes> you know more heading in the right direction and you know certainly much more. <hes> an upbeat finale and a more clear sign that this person's actually going to be okay and maybe start making some right choices yeah. That's a really interesting pig. That didn't come to mind mind to me but now that you say that I think that films speaking of young adult and tully actually I think work sure and similar in a similar fashion there as far as how it is the Anti Weld rose but at the same time they they are very similar. It's like those films are working backwards but then heading in the same direction sure sure so yeah that does that didn't even come to mind but yeah I love that right on right on and you you know those are also a totally as well. <hes> you know really great interesting movies with like you know very different from anything else. I think they take on your point of view in a very unique way. She's got got a very interesting way to her with her her right and yeah yeah yeah absolutely I agree now. So what do you got next. You got another puzzle piece. That was my last one <hes> the last one that I have here and I don't know if I have much to say about it because I haven't seen it in a long long time and like tender mercies. This is one of those that I watched with my dad way back when but the nineteen eighty film urban cowboy came to mind for me because that film at least much of it centers around a local country music club and that's something that we see with Roseland <hes> at the very beginning of the film she's like I guess like the main singer of the local country entry bar in Glasgow and at the end of the film after going to Nashville again like she has that epiphany where she realizes that the the local makeup of you know where she's at like like that Kinda defines who she is and it allows for her to to kind of be the local country music artists and also she's able to Kinda take care of her kids so the fact that glass cow again has a a significant impact on Roseland and we see that through the catalyst of that local country bar short by I think parallels what we see in urban cowboy that much of it takes place at that you know local music as a club and also that film has volatile relationships all over it what we see with Roseland as well in wild rose so that one came to mind for me as well right on yeah. I haven't seen that in a long long time either but I Komo from my recollection of it. I absolutely see what you're saying there with those parallels and yeah it's funny I was when I was thinking about puzzle pieces for this. I was trying to think of a movie with a house band. You know that wants to wants to break break then become more of a major thing I guess in a Little Way Lady Gaga House Act in early on yeah yeah absolutely. I guess that AH works too but yeah I love that setting. I love that bar I mean it feels like a bar that we've all been to at some point you know just how energy and vibrancy of it it's great on well. I'M GONNA go ahead and do the finished puzzle now Alan then we'll get into any of our closing thoughts on loud rose <hes> so that includes ricky in the Flash Sherry baby the films of Ken Loach including I Daniel Blake and angels share eight mile tender mercies crazy crazy heart the Florida project stars born inside Lynn Davis Young Adult and urban cowboy so we got a great list there. I mean a lot of music movies. Of course I mean it's bound to happen but then a bunch of other movies as well well as a pretty wide ranging list here <hes> yeah. What do you have any any closing thoughts about it? I know you've talked about it a whole bunch on your podcast but yeah I mean I love the film I will say though if any of your listeners <hes> want to point this out to me I I would love to hear what they have to say because when doing research for this I was also trying to think about movies about single mothers or maybe even just motherhood in general and how they are specifically balancing that with their ambitions and dreams and honestly there or tons of great movies about mothers and single mothers but I couldn't find a ton of films that was about that Specifically Chore So Either There Are Tons of blind spots for me when it comes to this or I just didn't research enough off. I don't know I'd be curious to hear what you or your listeners have to say about that or maybe that's just something that makes wild rose unique is that it's about that that I think a lot of parents are having to bounce ever Dan their lives I I mean not just with us in podcasting but every parent has their own individual and in specific desires whether it's to be a singer or to be a filmmaker or to be a painter or whatever the case may be but they have to balance out those things with being with the responsibilities of being a parent and that's a very difficult thing and <hes> I love how wild rose is about that specifically <music> as I said I think it <hes> the the way it explores that is absolutely beautiful and poignant <hes> it's it's. It's really great so any other films especially Non Music Films <hes> MHM I we've. We've already mentioned a few that that kind of do that. With <hes> the characters we talked about but non music films that are about that same theme and idea <hes>. I was a little hard for me to come by so but you know again. I've been very busy lately and I'm really tired and maybe I'm just an idiot. Mr Lots things so but I'd be curious to hear from your listeners or even from you if you have some sure yeah. I'm sure as soon as we hear everybody Oh yeah of course that was like right at the edge of money. Yeah read the edge of my mind there yeah <hes> but yeah no I I would love to hear some more <hes> some more picks for other movies that deal with that kind of a story and you know I think <hes> you know the the redemption that this character feels that actually like earns you know. I think it's funny how the music helps her. You know get there even though the music is kind of what's holding her back the whole time. I think that's part of what's so great about this story. Are you know interesting irony. What did you think about that last song glass? Cow Is the name of that song. I think she sings at the end right yeah yeah. I thought it was fantastic and I I actually found this out today while I was doing a little last minute research that Mary Esteem Bergen Code Oh wow that's I I didn't know that but that song slayed me Oh yeah it just it killed me and and perhaps part of it is because like I said I'm I can relate with Roseland so much lodged regarding that that you know struggle of ambition and responsibility and when she starts seeing about being at home and how much that means to her and how she had to struggle to get there I even when I listened to it on spotify outside the context of the film in moves me to tears like I I love it. I think it's one of the most beautifully written original songs I've heard in in some time and Jessie Buckley things the hell out of it. Oh hell there's one moment as we get to the climax of the song where she really belts out and it just absolutely rose me to shreds. I love it and <hes> I just I. I can't recommend commend this film enough and yes if you have seen the film or even if you just want to listen to the soundtrack it's up on spotify in its glorious. It is so it's awesome is absolutely awesome one last thing I just wanted to mention and then we'll we'll finish it but while I was doing a little my last minute research today I had totally forgotten. She is starring in the new Charlie Kaufman Film. I'm here ending things <hes> Jessie Buckley. I am so looking forward to that. Oh my I know I cannot outweighed either and if any of your listeners haven't seen Chernobyl yet she does have a supporting role in that mercy's terrific as well site heard yeah. I haven't watched it yet but I've heard great thing and it was it was shocking to me because I had no idea I just started watching it because I heard great things about it and there was a scene you know kind of early on I think in that first episode and I was like Oh my goodness. I'm just like that's Jessie Buckley. I had no idea so it was like this huge delightful surprise before I even got a chance to see a Waldo so she's awesome nice awesome well. This was gray one last thing we always do is I always ask my. My guest if there's something else they've seen recently that they'd like to recommend Oh boy. That is a really challenging question. You've seen a lot I have will in. It's the timing of it is really interesting. As well. I mentioned earlier that I recently went on vacation and when I came back from vacation man live things got really interesting in our hurry because I saw the last Blackman in San Francisco I saw area astor's mid so mar and then I got a chance to see Lulu Wong's the farewell which is I believe going wider on August second so a lot of markets markets have not seen the film but I got lucky that there was an early press screening here because Lulu Wong is from the Miami area and so she was doing a bunch of press here so I got a chance to see the film. Those three films are in my top six of the year so far nice and so like I basically almost got to see those back to back to back so the <hes> and I could not wreck act cannot recommend them enough so just this these last few weeks for me have have have been delightful so <hes> I in particular the farewell in the last black man in San Francisco. I can easily recommend those mid. Somare is a much tougher recommend. It's hard to say because that's a horror film. That's not really a horror film. It's an anti horror film. It's it's growing. It's disturbing but it's not a film that relies on jump scares or typical horror tactics <hes> and it's it's very artful. It's it's methodical. It's you know if you like to go and see easy. Get easily scared with jump scares and in mid so Mars not that at all so it's hard for me to fully recommend but I love it like I said it's in my top ten so those three films big thumbs up for me absolutely yeah we're actually planning on doing an episode on the last Black Man in San Francisco next week and that's going to be challenging but I think yeah yeah I I I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it and and the connections that you guys make to it because you know I guess I don't I definitely don't want to reveal anything there. There are a few that come to mind so I'll be curious to hear what you guys have to say right on well. <hes> this was gray. <hes> I wanNA thank you so much for being here. Where can people find your podcast again like I said earlier in session film Dot Com you can find links to everything? Social media were on facebook twitter instagram. The Graham just searched and session filming. You'll find us decide on the site. We have links to the podcast we also have written reviews and other refund content. We have bonus content. We have patriotic content. If you want to <hes> support us there so again the central hub you can find links to everything that to everything that's in session film Dot Com beautiful well. Thank you so much for being here. Have you ever want me back on your show. I would be happy to do it again. I'm not for sure. Thanks for having me. I this was a lot of fun. Okay everybody. My name is Michael. E Colin the second and with me is Matthew Haas we are the CO hosts of the all too real to podcast on all too real to me <hes> tackle pop culture topics such as re watching and reviewing a direct to d._v._d.. Sequels we review any and every all direct to video movies sometimes that we review so you don't have to we also cover <hes> pop culture topics you know like the history of Halloween misconceptions and things of that nature very educational and entertaining entertain and we've just started doing interviews with people from Hollywood and people from pop culture such as Larry Hank in which we just interviewed recently you know from Seinfeld and friends and Billy Madison among other things so <hes> where can they find our podcast Matt they can find Eh iheartradio apple podcasts stitcher and any other place that you can find podcast on just tune in and enjoy already hope. You enjoyed that conversation conversation with J._D.. About wild rose and I really hope you went out and watched wild rose because it is a movie worth seeing definitely go check this movie out and then check out the soundtrack because it's a fantastic soundtrack to so that does it for for today's conversation as always want to remind you all the please make sure you're subscribed piecing it together on your podcast App of choice and if you enjoy the show you can rate and review us on Apple podcasts five stars would be amazing amazing. We are of course on all the social media's at piecing pod and we have a facebook group popcorn and puzzle pieces where we continue the conversation about all these movies that we talk about here on the show and you know if it's your first time listening to piecing it together which are a lot of new listeners lately <hes> this month has been the biggest month in the history of the show by a margin of multiple multiple times over <hes> so if you're one all of these new people who have been listening. I'd love to hear anything of this. Show so please do rate and review us or just <hes> you know getting touched on social media or whatever we would really love to hear what you're thinking of this show and we WANNA keep making it better better for you. Guys are planning on all all kinds of new episodes and new bonus features and we've got a patriarch in which exists over at Patriotair dot com slash piecing pod but there's not much there yet but there's going to be a lot there so we've got plenty plenty. He planned for this show so let's finish this thing up with a piece of music like I always do and you know I don't really have any country songs <hes> to play you guys but here is a track called hero from my my most recent album a different kind of dream and it's got a little bit of Twang to it so maybe this'll fit the bill and joy hero from my most recent album different kind of dream and we will be back with more piecing it together come in real soon <music> uh-huh both and breath and uh and uh-huh mm-hmm <music>.

Roseland Jessie Buckley Nashville Rosalyn Redo Glasgow Florida Ricky Ken loach Jeff Bridges spotify David Rosen San Francisco US Lewin Duran Hollywood Vegas Garcia Meryl Streep
Get Out There: In Honor Of Earth Day

WAMU: Local News

04:09 min | 3 months ago

Get Out There: In Honor Of Earth Day

"This is wls am eight five. I'm jonathan wilson. It's time now for our weekly conversation about ways to explore the washington region. It's called get out there. I'm joined by staff writer. Elliot williams in dc est arts and food editor lori mccue. Welcome to the both of you. Hey there hey so. Today is earth day and i hear there's a lot going on around the region to celebrate elliott one major festival. I always look forward to this time of year. The living earth festival. What can folks expect from that this year. yes so. This event is hosted by the national museum of the american indian which is hosting a ton of virtual programming. Today through sunday. Participants can watch film. Screenings cooking demonstrations and panel discussions these presentations focus on agricultural trends business innovation and sustainability within native communities. It's free which is great and definitely worth checking out laurie. How about for people who want to incorporate some more earth friendly practices into their weekend. Are there any recommendations. Well one thing. I'm always trying to do is get more plants in my home. Well correction plants. That i can actually keep alive. I want those in house. If that also applies to you other two events that might be able to help us out this weekend. I is the slow food. Dc plant swap. Basically you bring in plants that either don't thrive in your home or maybe you just don't love anymore and you pick up some new ones while you're there That's taking place at three stars brewery this weekend so there will be plenty of beer to celebrate your new Family members as well. And if you're looking for you know more activities and things to do a group fence atoll d. c. is putting on an earth fest in park on saturday They'll be swapping seedlings as well and also gardening supplies. You know if you wanna get your gardens started. And they're going to be crafts for kids and adults one of them. I hear is going to be a giant art project that's gonna use up cycled materials. I hear crocheting is involved. So if you're crocheter and you want to celebrate her birthday that one's you very cool Elliott earth day is also a day when folks like to give back maybe make our landscape a nice place to live or nicer place to live. Are there any volunteering opportunities out there. That people should know about their sure are one i'm looking at is a cleanup happening in anacostia park on sunday. The group that's hosting it is called district cleanups. It's meeting at the roller skating pavilion and splitting up into socially distanced teams to pick up trash along the riverbank. All day all right. Let's look forward to the weekend more. Generally laurie what are you going to be getting up to well. as usual. i have Some local theater news. So simon godwin. He's the artistic director of shakespeare theater. Here in dc. He directed this production of romeo and juliet for london's national theatre. It's stars josh. O'connor he just played prince charles on the crown And jessie buckley who was just in one of my favorite movies of last year. It's called. I'm thinking of ending things. So this romeo and juliet is a televised play. It's premiering on pbs. This weekend and shakespeare theater is throwing a little virtual pre. Show party to celebrate I'm always looking forward to checking out new local theater. So i'm excited very cool. Jessie buckley also ensure noble by the bureau miniseries. She was awesome in that elliot. What about you. Everyone knows. I'm a fan of standup comedy. Group called e. science comedy is hosting a virtual comedy show called for earth on saturday and is play on words. Right judah friedlander from thirty rock. He's just one of the guests That will be doing standup the host. Promise that the show will be both informative and hotter than earth's global record for the past ten years so sounds like something you'll get some laughs from and some. Yeah that's pretty hot. All right elliot. Williams is a staff writer at c. Laurie mchugh editor at dc s. You can find additional coverage of arts and culture on our website w. a. m. u. dot org and at dot com elliott and laurie. Thanks always thank you thank you.

Elliot williams lori mccue jonathan wilson shakespeare theater national museum of the america laurie jessie buckley anacostia park elliott roller skating pavilion simon godwin washington juliet romeo Elliott national theatre prince charles connor judah friedlander josh
#359 - Jessie Buckley

The Empire Film Podcast

1:22:06 hr | 2 years ago

#359 - Jessie Buckley

"Bye bye. On the podcast is week. We go country, but not western with the wild rose are self Jessie, Buckley, I don't think anybody's going to understand us by the end of this. Arlen? All out of more on the movie podcast that had his world rock this week by two things. One revelation of Joe Russo co director of offenders endgame is a Liverpool fan and to those pictures of Jude law on the beach. I mean Blimey. Wow. How the Paul? I'm Chris Hewitt's. And welcome to the podcast this week. I'm joined by two colleagues to count them to to colleagues such lethal cunning. We are of course, joined by our geek, Queen Helena HARA. Hello. How are you? I'm fine. I mean, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel about the pope now. After those Jude law pictures, of course, filming the young pope in tidy, white Eason's. Yep. A whole the new pope. Yes. Or the new pope Osama why exert Twitter fame filled people invested you spend Travis I. Young kids. I'm also and spending. A lotta time thinking about the the pill as the internet. Fat. I can. No, no, no anyway. Yes. Hallo Ben social put these pictures and context, and then we'll talk about the important thing, which is liberal. But. Okay. So Jude law he's on the beach earning twenty percent. And there he is. Out and everything with yet. I mean, he's been working out Oviously. He's happy clean living, man. He's taking good care of himself. And he's Scully Fudd frankly, but he's also in defense of like, not being sexist. There are scantily clad women will him throw bowls. No. I hadn't noticed January. Okay. Let's go. We're asking. Well, don't you recognize IT white sees of ace of like painfully they official papal where of the gallons and the and the pointy hats all that trunks for those eventualities. I mean, maybe some maybe some priests can write in not tell us that would be super matter. Definitely not let us know that would be super. So that caused quite the star quite the old kerfuffle, and it's the best advertisement frankly for show that I've seen so so Choon into the new pope whenever it hits a screen near you some point to see what the hell is going on that shot. What's he doing the dream sequence? What happened? I mean, it could be a dream sequence. Or it's a very old show. Anyway. So it could be reality. Let's be honest okeydokey. But the second thing that rocked my world this week is the revelation. That's Joe Russo co-director of ventures K doesn't eat support Liverpool football clip who I don't know if you're where of this. I think everyone as Chris is also my team, I think everyone knows that. Think people who've never met, you know, that I think this I was on the fence fees Affi adventures and game. This put me over the top. I think so, you know, I think it might be a good film might be good. It's gotta shot as people listen to this. It's less than two weeks away less. Extremely exciting facts as we record this two weeks today, as we record this extent of the vendors and game is opens in the UK fifteen days until you get it in the states ha-ha-has suck it Americans. It is also shall we say less than fourteen days until some of us. See the film. It's fine. We're keeping it together. We're totally fine. We're absolutely one hundred three percent profession for breaks. In fact, this is my last stint hosting the podcast. I'm not going to be one of the things where I go. I'm not hosting the podcast, and I turn up and your podcast. And then I'm in the corner. I think you need to say until at some point in the sentence. Otherwise, people are gonna freak out. This is not your last podcast volume. No, no, no. No. No. No, no. But what a way to go out with Jerusalem for Liverpool and Jude law get nips out in the beach. I mean, that's that's like I've dreams like that. Anyway, this is my last podcast until offenders and game comes out because I'm going to hell for the next eleven days as of this weekend. So Helen, you're gonna be holding the fourth. So I had said to people on the Twitter machines that they should ask me. Ask us not me, but ask us questions because the last time I'll be on the podcast before in game comes out. Sure is our last chance to tackle and game related questions and theories and whatnot relation. Speculation. Yes. Indeed. So here we go loads. And those questions I'm going to raise soon began. All right. Let's give it a go. Just one question for the day were throwing caution to the wind at Phil underscore asks do you think Adam from guardians of the galaxy to will appear an endgame outta Morlock? This would be more luck teased in one of the post credit stings to guardians to. I think. No. I think they're going to save him for guardians three. You're welcome. Helen. Already so many characters and so many things going on. I feel like it doesn't need wool that can weights. Yes, now is not the time to introduce a major new character. But the reason of course, what people might think that he because he has previous with the Infinity stones and without. I mean, like squirrel girl has debated thunnus in the past. And nobody's talking about her turning up. Are they so to say that's fair? Okay. Here's a good one from the chocolate patriots at moans mats and lay ask don't know moans Matt's success, Matt, but Laos, what would you say is the most important film in the Infinity saga? I was relaunching age of ultra and I do feel as a strong contender one of the weakest films, but confirms Infinity stones is key to future films and leads to sequoia accords. So in terms of setting in pieces, a lot of people been asking this recently, what films rewatch in the run-up to avengers. And I don't know if you've been following. In my film recommendation threat on Twitter. Chris you it's film today. Two thousand nineteen to follow or more likely mute that hashtag to see what film I recommend everyday. It's the same film everyday, Chris, it's always Infinity war. This is true. This is very, but one of the one of the ones that you. Yes. Interested in war. But yeah, h of ultra all the movies. I think only avengers may be some accents. I think civil war is going to play into the immense amount of semi suppressed emotion, I'm hoping for between cap and Tony and first guardians the only because it introduces the guardians. But that is the first film as well where really salsa delve into what the stones are. And you have fans turning up for like a few scenes in that as well. So that feels like pretty pivotal who they really focused on and decided on what he looks like. It's a it's a step forward from the vengeance known assemble credit sting. But yeah, they haven't quite figured out that Sonia had they known the hadn't maybe we'll get right one day anymore for anymore in terms of the important films in the I would say probably to start with Armand. Okay. The move to the incredible hulk, I know a lot of people dissing credible hulk. But I think it's important in reminding people who general thunderbolt roses, and of course, who Bruce banner's fantastic. Then I would say armenta, I know. But it does a stylish of detail about shield Nick fury and everything else, which might be relevant Colson. You can't watch without knowing Colson is and Colston's in those first couple of films. Exactly. All right. So after that, I would probably go ahead Thor. Okay. Yeah. I've mentioned in for my favorite, captain America. The first bench captain America, the first offensive, and you need the fist of NGOs when they all assemble it just makes sense. It does so follow cap with a vengeance. You give appropriate. But then it's been really long time since you watched any ironman. So you need some Tony you need some firemen three Jones for Tony. And you need see how he was affected by the events of of avengers. I guess. Yeah. Ironman, three the best Armand film. That is correct. Ben well done after that. I would probably go on captain America winter soldier gardens galaxy but you want to go back to. And then okay. Want gray soundtrack it really does. This point you probably need to start tapping your toes a little bit. Winter soldier because it's the best one under both in integral to the. People may see what we're doing here. All right. All right after that. Then you have to avenge his age of Trump sparring for. Yeah. And it's epoch see like an news Bush Apolo cleansers. Let's ant, man. So after that over at man, then after that, I would go for captain America's civil war epic need more cap at that point yet were guy goes look hall kinda. And you know, just I'm using it for like three minutes. Forty-seven seconds got kept America's civil war. Then after I'd go for doctor strange this kind of like weird and eccentric singing, they can what what the hell's going on here. So you need that in your life. That don't you definitely. And then you need gardens galaxy volume to. Yep. And then you need or Ragnar gripe. No Spiderman homecoming Spiderman homecoming your rights. Thor ragnarok. Yeah as important it is important because it leads directly into offenders in in in defended the game, an an all this. I'd go Black Panther. Okay. Offenders Infinity war Chris today twenty nineteen and then I would go out of the wasp. I know much maligned in this room, but hey, it's a bit of it's an Elmore Leonard, Ian blast. And and then I would go cut marvel captain marvel marvel captain marvel sister's doing it for themselves and I'd finish off with ventures. Again. That's why would do that's strategy are the one films. I think you should catch up with before you, see eventually. All right. Just a couple more questions. Pete Turner asks what in the World Cup marvel ever do in the future that could be more of a massive offense than endgame, and I'd like to see a Logan style. Eighteen rated R movie where it gets really swearing and find no. Just know as we're going to talk about it later in the podcast. I think going swearing violence for own sake is not necessarily always winning strategy. Fuck no. I mean, I in terms of what mobile can do next to outdo endgame. Whatever that's going to be. It's going to be so many years down the line. The the reason then game is a big deal is because it's paying off on such a long kind of amount of storytelling. So I think we can't even picture will that's going to be yet because we need to be invested in doctor strange and Black Panther and kept a mobile to the same extent as we are to the OG of NGOs this time, assuming that they even survive, and we don't know right now as bozeman keeps telling people he's dead under SuperNet a few people have sent what would we do? If endgame sucks. You know, what we made it through this far we can cope, it'll be painful and difficult is it bad. The I really don't think it will genuinely feel like that team have our trust for a reason. So I mean, if you looked into so fourteen million possible futures, I can't imagine that many of them were endgame ends up being disappointing. Nephew. I mean in forty million 'cause you got imagine just one word started by like a singing dog or something. Yeah. Mckee? Because the singing talk was on the face. Second choice. An original producer on supernatural. Thank you very much. Okay. All right at a underscore Alba's URS asks if a genie told you you could put an end to Brexit but in exchange, you could never watch endgame. Would you do it? I can't believe you've actually taken this on to think about it. Yes. I would end Brexit. I'm just I'm just I'm just like are people allowed to like explain and game to me like talk me through it. Tell me what happened. Can I read the Wikipedia spoiler page. I dunno will Helen whatever lay say fifty two percent. The people say, no, you should look and then finally Christine Rogers whose Twitter handle is at writing freak eight asks a wo- point to Steve die one hour. Two hours in two hours and forty five minutes in discuss I refused to gauge with this. I refused to sunk shin. This buffoonery. I think it is going to be a sort of groundhog day sil- movie were the poor fellow dies twenty five times. And each time in slightly more pathetic way, like one he does a charity thing to raise money for survivors of the snap. And he gets into bath full of baked beans. He bangs his head and drowned slowly in about villa bike Baynes. Okay. I know you're joking. But I'm genuinely prepared for that. Supernatural episode called the mystery spots. Super always always adult Trump tweets. And there's always a supernatural episode genuinely dean Winchester dies hundred times. So I have I have been through that worst case scenario. Okay. I'm serene. I can cope and Steve is gonna live forever thinking on. Of course, the outsiders, the the explosion of dildo factory that I thought would do for Nick. Fury's. I in captain marvel it didn't that's still on the table. That is still on the table. Always gonna stay on the table far away from the screen. You have to ask yourself. What sort of screenwriting hoops, you would have to go through in order to get Steve Rogers into a dildo factory? But I'm sure. Plus if he would do anything bookie if you have to dildo victory US came he he would have some kind of fully he would claim that he'd been brainwashed. And this one had said a series of random woods to him and eat ended up. Anyway, that's it for the fenders endgame theories and question marathon, and then yeah, I won't be any more questions for him anyone for more for two more weeks. If you want to have your question right out in the upper podcast and treated with respect. It's or lay deserve you can get in touch with find number methods. We are on Twitter, of course, as at impropriety news. Hashtag an podcast chances are Helen won't see them over the next couple of weeks. Right. We're also Facebook as empire magazine Facebook us one and no one ever since questions Facebook check, the I mean, they might be check. And you can Email us as I do check that every single day podcast at empire, online dot C O M rice, we get some movie news. Yes, lens lovely lovely moving. News. Can we talk about the grease thing? Greece is apparently getting a prequel cold summer loving, or at least John August, the screenwriters working on the script. Yes film. Which would explain the first connection between Danny and sandy on their summer holidays. Tell me more. Good. Why do we say for that? Oh, sorry. There was nothing. I could do. I that's all there is really I'll be honest and tell me more. What the hell's who long? I mean, that's not really the question that spring to mind. My question will simpler, my question is why. My question is what does this really give us that we need in the world? And I think it's genuinely worth asking because Greece worked right because. Okay. It's catchy songs and stuff. But it was made in the seventies. And it was set in the fifties on had that stole GIC cake for people who vaguely remembered that time, and then also had it was a little bit boundary. Pushing compared to how the fifties where you know, in terms of talking about condoms and talking about, you know, teen pregnancy and things like that which people might know had teen movies twenty years before. So it kind of offered something as well. As just the catchy songs. I'm not clear on water offers us now because I feel it today's teenagers are so divorced from the teenagers of the nineteen fifty. They're so much cooler, and so much more interesting and so much less high-powered by these very very strict generals at the pink ladies in the t birds have the I don't see whether is for any young person to connect to that film. So it feels me like they're making this film for people. Our eighteen older quo possibly I don't see high isn't creepy in that case that we're watching these two teenagers mess about in a beach. An also goes way more than I know I can help thinking high Badin idea is and the thing is well, the whole song is a kind of he said, she said telltale, but the the tale. They're telling the joke of the whole sowing the point of the entire thing is that Danny is making shit up and sandy is telling the sad but boring truth, right? So if you mess without in any way, it doesn't work at all. And I just don't see wh- there is there to work with maybe we'll find them. Maybe John August who is a screenwriting guru. Yeah. I love big fish big fish as well. Just so he'd love huge chips big fish massive peas. Oh, you mean the movie? Yes, I buy affection for as well. But yeah, he he knows what he's doing. And he he clearly has an idea. For this. I mentioned they didn't just go to him. Maybe he pitched this who knows. But what I'm saying is I'm surprised that this take them so long because Greece is wildly popular and Greece to less. So. Is not. There's some senators and some Senate don'ts when you when it comes to making terrible nineteen eighties music. I just on behalf of cat, Brian. Formerly of this parish have to say some people love, Greece two. Yeah. So absolutely. But when I heard this this this news, I thought you know, what I've got chills. Are they multiplying? No, not really. But there we go. Well, well, well, that's move onto the next next story. What does this happen been you? Look the command. He's got moving news on your mind. I do The Lion King to nutria, which is still kind of blogging my head that those are not real animals. This is probably the most photo real like is this a we show. This isn't just like it. David atom bridge documentary that slightly Benting to make into a Disney film because some of those shots like I even believe that to modem number skipping through the jungle together and singing Akina matassa, but doesn't that make it weird? Yeah, is, but you know, what I have to say the Jon Favreau jungle book kind of what full me, I do the original. But it had enough of a different tone at that. So of almost adventure chase movie kind of thing going on. And I kind of tryst Joan favorite to do something. Hey, I prefer the Disney remakes when they our little bit more removed from the originals pesently Brady lights Dumbo because it kind of took those leaps in the SWIFT's. So yeah. Hopefully, I mean, I it's not mix isn't it all shots in that trailer a things that you see in the classic jungle book, but it has different fail in different tone. And that voice cast is off the charts. Good Donald Glover beyond say, Billy Eichner in south Rogan's to modem Kumba, which is genius casting. Joan lavar Zaza. Who doesn't look as scary as you think you might. He knows sound scary. And this is the thing. Jeremy Irons is a Januarius scars when la- great creepy guy voices and Genucel is as yours an amazing actor, but I don't know what he has the false. I quite liked his just richness of tone in that voice. The the really got me though, was was hearing James l Jones as there's only one fasten. And he is not that that was the the trial. That got me. I'm just I'm not hugely excited about this. Otherwise, I wasn't excited by the jungle book, and I really enjoyed it. So yeah, also is going to give us can you feel tonight by beyond say, featuring cellist Gumby. No. So I'm in. I'm absolutely speaking of Gumbiner, by the way, the morning after you listen to this. If you listen to this on Friday on Saturday morning. Donald Glover is dropping new film clumsy gold glove. Yeah. Hopefully picks it up at some point knows coming. To Amazon studios, Amazon prime Amazon film that don't glove and reenter and Letitia rights. And yet it's called Quadra island. He's also headlining Coachella. This weekend's kinda ties in its from the director of the absolutely incredible. This is America video in lows of episodes of Lancer, cycled hero Mirai, and we kind of know nothing about it at this point. But in the days after you, listen to this it will be available to stream on prime glitter film, kind of dropping out the actual an actual film. And I imagine there will be some kind of music component or an album tie in. But say, yeah, a feature film project. Good lord. He makes me feel like an underachiever. I mean, a lot of people do in fairness, but particularly in. Yeah, he is like one of the most hyphenated multi hyphen which stick on his on his way Kapiti age. Okay. That's that's pretty cool kind talk about some some sad news. Yeah. Some sad news. News for me. Anyway, that after thirteen years together as a creative partnership out of McCain will Farrell or going to separate ways about study said actually has has been any reason why given I think that old gentler just growing apart creatively. A little bit may be. This is the mid announcement last week. So they've been working together for years and years and years and years and years feral, obviously as one of the stars of SNL the time he was working on it. Mckay was the head writer SNL may just clicked acidy clicked than they've made tons of movies together anchorman. I commend to Telladega nights the other guys debt brothers and they've got a production company together as well called Gary Sanchez, which is produced lots of really good comedies and some less. Good comedies. And they were together. They pioneered funnier died the the website as well. But yeah, if you look at the way mckay's career is going they're both political guys. They did that George Bush show on Broadway years ago where Farrell played Bush, but mckay's, Phil. Recently have been the big short and Feis and they've moved away from the humor of anchorman and step brothers and films like that and Farrell may be still in direct. Yeah. So maybe they've just gone look. Okay. I'm I'm over here. Doing what I'm doing? You're over here you're doing I'm going to form this company, you're going from this company. But they've they've said they're going to remain great friends, and hopefully, though work together again a stretcher in star down the line. Definitely I love them together. But yeah, a single tear ruled out cheek when I heard that news fry said, we should have a fucking Catalina wine mixer in their on a fucking Catalina. Why mix fucking Catalina wine makes absolutely have to stick the explicit. Brave him this one this. I have better news might cheer you up. Chris back together again that was going different different news. But it might still chillier. I know how much your Hawkeye and their came the news this week that Disney, plus the streaming service that Disney is about to launch will also have a whole Kyle limited series. They obviously lining up a whole heap of limited series of sort of vendors offs on this joins that selection. Who I mean, this is interesting. There's part of me that wishes that they had announced any of this stuff pre endgame because even if the can't all be prequels rights. My some of them might be prequel some of these people there's a low-key series of the scarlet witch and the vision series falcons and winter soldier series. And now there's this hog I series all those people pretty much are dead as things stand. So Hawkeye Hawkeye isn't to find three prequels and a sequel three prequels sequels. So you know, Hawkeye so they pursue intent on preserving the mystery. And keeping this spoilers out of this movie them in the hashtag for endgame is. Don't spoil the end game. Last year was thunnus demands your silence, and and they go I mean, they have announced films films, but going Hawkeye Hawkeye thing. And then there's some of the TV shows people that you last saw being reduced to the component parts. So I don't know, hopefully, these aren't spoilers. Hopefully, it'll be fine. But it's also interesting from Jeremy Renner standpoint because I always got the impression that he didn't really enjoy being in the MC that much, and that's just that's just my observation. I've only interviewed him a couple of times. He was totally find the you've spoken to maybe spokesman civil warrant. I don't know. Now, he was one the few. It didn't get. No. I mean, I think I think he's been under served generally by the with the exception of maybe the vulture voltron family stuff, which I thought was really nicely handled. But as a character actor, he has so much potential that I'm actually quite intrigues and interested see what they do with this. And I hope that they actually use of that potential that they never have find time for in the screen give it give it to him here. I'm also genuinely quite happy that they they specifically said in this story that would have a lower budget, obviously than than some of the films, and the reason I'm happy about that is I just want these characters to hang out and talk which can be done fairly cheaply. You know? So I feel that would be my ideal of injures kind of spin offs. And if it's literally just eight episodes of Jeremy Reiner hanging out as Hawkeye, I'm here for it. I think as well because he's only ever really appeared in the big team movies when? N-? There is the biggest crisis in the universe going down that they will have to stop. I think actually series that may be focuses on the sense of scale. Ready works could give that character a chance to shine in a way that he hasn't always these they poke fun. It's in an age donate, the kind of none of this makes sense. I've go an hour. But is. It's poking at the truth, which is like he is an really doing much compared to everyone else. So I think it'd be really good carrots operating on a on a different scale for ones. Yeah. Absolutely. If they base it on the brilliant mount fraction and David storylines for years ago. If you haven't picked up an amazing run of Hawkeye, solo comics where he basically buys and becomes a landlord of building with all the attendant problems, an attendant tenants, and it's really really cool, really funny and offbeat and solves those problems with arrows some I'm infra some. Here's another suggestion little bit of bait. See think you may remember years ago? There was something called the whole KYW project which saw a series of sort of fan artists. Pose Hokkai in the same kind of over sexualize, poses that the female superheroes often adopted on on comic book covers and so on and in the same kind of skimpy versions of his cO. Jim that the female superheroes. Sometimes war. Why not eight hours of the hook? I project in real life. You've checked if I men Helen the point. Property run down the beach and his tidy Wendy's. I mean why? No, apparently, everyone's doing it. Now. Even the did you guys get my wants up a group to that. No, no, sure. That is. Deleted. What's happened to a phone? I'm gonna I'm gonna Resendiz to just you your phone just going to double check comes through. Four to my phone. Oh my God. Who knew couple more things to talk about very quickly. Dave Batista has joined the cast of sack Snyder's army of the dead, which has got me all kinds of excited, and that's the heist movie sent in Las Vegas where bunch of battles mercenaries break into the walled off last Vegas in the midst of this fast Sobe, apocalypse type thing, and they go we don't give a shit about this because we're bad asses. I'm led by Dave, Batista. Presumably so bring it on somebody's. I bet spring on. Yeah. But they tasted brings it honor. Yeah. For his post and game right now that movie is the thing that gets me. He please. Thanks nighter Sohbi's day. Petit Stoev, please anything else. Yes. Some more suicides news suicide school too is. Now, of course, the suicide squad with James Gunn at the helm and this week. It was confirmed file the Davis is gonna return as Amanda Waller who's the politicians sample the team in the first movie, and it was basically the bad guy the movie in many many ways, and it was Elba is not going to be playing dead shot. He is going to be the movie he's going to playing a different character. But they haven't announced yet and John Courtney will return as captain boomerang. So cautiously optimistic about this movie yet, I'm just I'm just a bit confused about what it is. Because it feels like there's so many conflicting reports of it's not really a sequel is a total total reboot except for they're all gonna be returning characters. I have no idea whether they're going to find maybe some almost spy Diversey way of explaining how these wills of kind of totally separate, but they have these connecting characters they've given up. It will be a soft reboot so semi. Equal. But it's affecting the stove something new. Yeah. And James Gunn is involved overseas writer director that's exciting. Do you think there's a possibility this movie might suffer? Just because people will automatically now start assuming this is a movie that he's making before guardians three. You know what I mean? And this movie will suffer almost video sleep in comparison to guardian because this is the one, oh, we'll just once we get this movie out the way, then he can make the movie that he really wants to make to be honest. I think that expectations of new side squad were so low that his involvement. Only the singing dog with director. Yeah. Could only be a plus. So I think actually it will it will people excited. Can I can I mention one final piece of news, of course. Quickly in heights. There's news the heights. Yes. Which is. Thank you. It's those how it goes. Do do do do do do do this is of course, the Lin Manuel Miranda musical that he wrote before Hamilton and actually before bring it on as well. The does not here. No there. It's being filmed by Joan m show he'll has lots of experience with dense movies, which is good. And we now know that Jimmy Smits is going to be on board playing Nina's dad, Kevin he runs the taxi office that employs Benny and is an important role in the middle of the cast and Jimmy Smits is in. So I don't know Jimmy Smits could sing even care if he sings he's great. And I want him in the film. He's really good sad song that character very halt breaking song own. So it'd be interesting to see him in kind of ballot mode. Yeah. Did. Did you see this thing this week were Rachel Segler who Spielberg has cast play Maria in his west side story is to in her final school play this week. That is amazing isn't a is the school play. Aliens school play. I hope it is. I hope it is. Have you seen that care? Some bell also has Disney plus show, which is going to try and reunite the casts of school plays system. Bill. Yeah. Well, but like reunite the Cosco plays like ten or twenty years later, and they have to on their school play again. Shut the front. This hilarious me. And I will hundred sent watching it crystal if you're listening, you are I have to suggestions for you one reunite the cast of the nineteen ninety-five Bambridge gotta me production of Oliver the personally played Fagin in that is willing to reprise the role. Oh my goodness. Did. Did you play? Did you play any? Never. I was never an Oliver. Now. Singing empire production coming on the situation. And recently, my my friends line. We've been getting together you'll university of jumps. And we've been talking about putting on twelve angry men, which we did at university. But this time we're actually almost age appropriate. As opposed to like, just putting great how compound in your hair, and, you know, pretend to be adultery. An I played juror number four the EEG Marshall in the city limit film. So yeah, Kristen bell. Yeah. Get in touch as you know. My DM's are open. I'm always she's eating. I can't on the ballot again. No. So yeah. Do that. We had a primary school production of cats, and I can only imagine how horrible that was. Already terrible. Plus the bunch of what sub eleven year olds the Yukon saying, do you wanna say she'll? Probably film. Everyday is Christmas. Wait to see cats. I z cats. I'm so excited. So it'd be like endgame if I was here game won't be. But you know, up from three o'clock. We just there. Try everything. That is hopping cabinet the whole time. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be so terrible, terabytes terribly entertaining terribly. Good. So awful league. Great. I can't wait to see it. Okay. That is it for movie news. And it is time to tell you that this week show is once again sponsored by the one people at the economist, the legendary magazine is over one hundred seventy years old another thirty years to go. It'll be getting a second telegram from the Queen the Queen herself. She get a telegram from if she turns a hundred I think she sends herself she someone to her mum. Didn't just the stem to self attract envelope to the Queen me. And once again, we have incredible offer empire podcast this a free free print issue of the economist. This is an incredible offer unlocking a fair to treasure trove of articles, but economics, politics, entertainment and much much more. I like to gravitate towards science stuff because science contains the really freaky stuff that gets my movie brain, working overtime, one article that caught my eye and the most recent addition dated April, sixth fact, funds tells of how scientists have discovered further evidence of the giant Meteo strike that wiped out the dinosaurs eventually ushered in the air of mankind. An ultimately led to the empire podcast. So thank you asked Royds in the appropriately named hell creek formation of tennis, North Dakota, a group of scientists have an earth, a one point three meter thick sedimentary layer that was says the article dumped in just one day, and it's loaded with the body sufficiently faces interaction indicates were rapidly buried in a cataclysmic event some. Of the fossils even have evidence of toilet fragments of glass. Courts generated in the intense heat last. Helen, I can see that this is blowing your mind is. Yeah. And one the students Fulton discovery. Robert palmer. Yes. Genuinely theorizes that the empire. So many that formed standing waves or cycles in every large body of water across the planet as tall as one hundred meters tall is one hundred meters. I looked up with standing waves where they're really cool undulating kind of really freaky waves letter in bodies of water that are is located and closed off from everything else. So much in those but a hundred meters toll as flipping around place. Odi would go nuts for it. And then Spain's fish were found in Thomas, many, hundreds of miles from the big old crater itself in Mexico and explains why they were fitted in such a way. So that blew my mind. It's exciting stuff. I'm just imagining. Now, a film about meteor impact film with a hundred meter toll standing ways Hollywood, Kristen bell. Getting touched just jumped me DM, and I will happily write that script for you so self sacrificing I'm very selfless. Not. So anyway, if you want to get your hands on a free print copy of economists, you want to stimulate your mind, grapes, all kinds of good stuff. F-? It couldn't be simpler, just text the word movies to the following number seven eight zero seven zero movies seven eight zero seven zero and soon you'll be enriching an enlarged in your brain. Maybe physically can promise that you'll actually your brain become bigger. Now. Chris is your lawyer. No, no, we can't do that. But we can say movies seven zero seven zero to get your free print copy of the communist once again, thanks to them for sponsor new show. Okay. So time now for this week's guest and Jessie Buckley burst onto the scene as an actor few last year, in fact, with the brilliant British movie beast, but she's been around for a while as a a singer and an actor came second in the BBC's talent competition, I do anything does this mean we could get her. Uh-huh. Into our production of Oliver. Yes. Because that sought a new Nancy for west in production of all of her an I'm Fagin, and Ben is oh. Oliver an you could be MRs Sauerbrey, wait. What will he's taking I'm afraid to integrate roles women play. Unless of course, we can. We can we can switch it up a little bit. You be just Sauerbrey the gaunt grim under. Okay. Bill sikes Bill sikes Bill the intimidating anyway, we'll find a few. It's totally fine. So Jessie, Buckley is in fricken credible in this week's while rose, which plays Glaswegian woman who has just been released from prison and wants to fulfill her dream her destiny of being a country, not country, western a country singer. And she's tremendous Jessie Buckley is our like myself and Helen, but her accidents as impeccable as far as I could tell of spent three days in Glasgow. But it's pretty good to me on. I was delighted by before she went off to make a film with Charlie Kaufman in New York that she took time out of essential to come into this race. Studio this enough rideshare? We're Ben is right now we had a good old Nodar. And perhaps we talk about Oliver in this as well. Anyway, here we go the great Jessie Buckley, do please enjoy. We're delighted to be joined on the podcast by the star of wild rose, while rose herself Jessie, Buckley, how are you? Very good goods just talking about being both from the the emerald Isle's speak and just wondering her thicker accents are gonna get during this next twenty minutes. I don't think anybody's going to understand us by the end of this or. All right. Have you found hold on your accent, easy, difficult of founded English people? Try and disabuse you certain notions. That you have for example, whenever I came to the for the first time, I referred to films films, obviously because that's what they are told by uppity, housemate a mind. Sees me, Chris I think you'll find a films, and now is the one word that has changed for me. Whenever I go back mind to marry always makes the point like have you been into films? And Mary I have been in the film. The way over and on. But that's the only anglicized word. I've taken I'm actually pretty surprised I've managed hold onto maxima. And if I go back to carry within like an hour. I am completely on on. I'm not able to understood to bring kind of you know, interpreter. But axons are are obviously huge part of an actor's arsenal. And we saw Rosie of my with my wife, and your sweet snacks is is pretty damn Trixie. It's pretty Trixie. So after the film, you came on you did a performance started speaking to the crowd. I've turned me one harsh. There could be no credit. Yeah. It's funny 'cause I hardly ever use my own accident. I think I've only used it once in a play and. Yeah, a lot of people like tink are either very English or fairy something, and then they meet me like oh my God. You're very Irish. It was the accident while rose tricky defined an easy to come by accents. Or is you have to work on def. Yeah. I worked my socks off on our think as well because it was like Silvio intrinsic to character, and the identity no sense white entity of Glasgow and that like rhythm and directness and roll energy. That has we have like it was just a real kind of thing which helped me navigate where this character was coming from. So I worked on it for months and months, and then base myself based in Glasgow month beforehand and irreverently went around to different newsagents hoping get away with asking for facts. And they wouldn't. And yeah. It's hard to go. I got my pocket facs. You don't even smoke. Glaswegian? Very exclusive. That's amazing. So after while you pass muster you find that everything was was going. Yeah. Well, I think once you start I don't actually stay in. When I'm shooting. Okay. I thought I might for this. But I. It's important for me to like comeback and be normals that I can keep relating normally to people. I personally just like I know my space where I am when I'm on set and audit. It's yeah. That's our work. I've no idea why to work so works. I remember reading the story once Robert Carlyle because I think he was very method might be the wrong word, but he was very committed to stay in an accident back today. Nassir sherve you would be leased as but he was doing crockery Scouse accents. And someone called about three in the morning and the answer in the scale sacks. It's funny. When I'm with like Scottish friends, like Nicole Taylor who wrote the script, I do find that all of a sudden I kind of put in last zooms into my chat with her. Oh, you're you know, we we kind of ends up being injected into my sentence for no reason other than I just want to be class for five minutes. That's what I can. Isn't it? Chance to holiday everyday. Yeah. Just be someone else. But in this in this movie, I mean, you're you're acting for the most part of a sits Judy Wolters. You know, Christ is is our house. Yeah. I don't think there's an accident this planet that she can't do, but anything she can't do that. Yeah. And she's bloody lovely as well. It's like. She lives in a firm. I wanna live in a phone sounds excellent. I know I think that's plan. That's in your power. Yeah. You do right now, you could go what was it won't experience via the she's so like she's talks to. Never want to see her ever getting. Oh, she's just I mean like. You kind of dream about working with somebody like that. And you kind of you hope that they're going to be everything that you dreamed about when you meet them, and you get to work with them, and she just everything and more and she's so down to earth. She so committed to all the right things about what this job should be about. And she's doesn't come it with any eagle or with any kind of power trip. She's religious open, and it makes just so easy to just be a scene with her because doesn't feel like you're acting. You know, and we really needed to like have that openness between each other. Because the relationship is quite it's complex mother daughter relationship with all the colors that exposes to you as a character in music person. And she just was so available and lovely gener-. Chris and challenging in nyc. It made me want to come into work every day and give her everything that I could more out of fear. So her off, and you know, but I feel incredibly lucky overture. She just is she's someone you look at and go I'd like to be like you. And I grow up. Oh, you know, you're not far off because you know, you are Julius Julie. Julie daynes, Julie, you know, you are the multi threats as the as they say because this movie showcases you're you're you're singing, and that's a huge part of your your career and life. We've been looking for something like this for a film rolled like this that would allow you to do to do both. Or was this just kind of serendipitous in the way. I don't really look for volunteer laugh in the way or no not necessarily like it's not something that has just come like that my life. You know, I moved over here when our seventeen I've done everything from selling cereal. Imbera markets to doing theater to doing jazz in dark clubs around London. It's it's nothing's been handed to me and never ever would expect that to be entitled to to be good at this or to get just get a script in my lap. But I'm I don't wear. It comes from by have. Trust in my belly that stories come to you at certain points in your life. And you Clinton meet stories when you're ready to meet them. And I wanna be surprised, and I wanna be in a way with what I look for I suppose, not necessarily specific things, I want something that shocks me. And distorts my sense of the world and makes me look at the world differently. And with this. You know, I'd worked Tom Harper before and I loved working with him. And it's really rare that you get a creative relationship where you know, you feel like you're there's a baseline trust there. But also, you respect each other in our inspired by each other and push each other. And he could have asked me to lie down train truck weaned like, yeah. Absolutely. No problem are going next train. And he brought it to me. And. Yeah, that was it was kind of. He said did you want to you on point? Yeah. And then well, he said he had speech sent a script. He wasn't going to tell me what it was. If you want me to read a he didn't want to do if I didn't do that. Was it thus pressure read? Read. Is just kind of mass manipulation as. I'm descriptors, Nicole, Taylor's just. An an incredible real writer. And she is so unafraid to go into the like core of quite uncomfortable things and people, you know, and qualities that we often in film and TV and in theater tried to gloss over and sheen and especially leading female roles. There still is like an archetype in film of like making them glamorous or like, and she just is on frayed of that she wants to get in deeper and darker and them and release the foibles that make human beings human. And that is exactly what's that. You know, heart of Rosalyn and the script is whatever whatever any of those women going through they're coming from a place of their own struggle, which is. Yeah. An incredible gift to to will you learn. A lot about yourself from those things that's the gift. What are you? Learn from this one. Do you have? I suppose it's why learned was that? It's it's it's hard to want something for yourself. And that takes a lot of courage and risk and consequence and falling off the edge of the cliff. I suppose why learnt Rosalyn had ten nasty and belief which on nerve me. And also brought me along even within the music. I learned about myself an I want to keep trying reaching for with the music working with those mazing musicians like new McColl, and Chris Bosh, Larry or drummer and Ben Nichols. Our bass player in Stuart Nesbitt. Who's our Dobro player is they they're all looking for something truthful in that moment, and we're able to record all the music live along with the singing onset. So that meant that each moment was. Truthful in live, and we're all trying to create an energy which was adding into seeing. Yeah. You mentioned the relationships in roseland, and her mother is complicated and rose Lynn's complicated. Yeah. She's fastnet. Just how far this character in how far Nicole and tomor on yourself are willing to kind of push the audiences tolerance and sympathy almost no way like the stuff that she does the self sheiks pools the stunt she pulls I, but the heart of it, all I get the sense that this is a car that has genuine guilt and genuine feelings as well at drive everything that she does you can see everything she does has a reason. Yeah. Yeah. And like at the beginning, it's hard to get inside with her. 'cause you're like what you doing? Two kids, you're being -pletely a responsible, you're acting selfishly. I think from what you said is that like none of those choices come with a cost for her. And she just had. She hasn't worked out quite yet. How to make both those things blend with each other in her life and she's figuring out. She goes along. She's young, you know. Of definitely I'm still making. Like that still plenty mistakes made along the way, but we would just home before hunt. You you're saying that Kermode is in your immediate future. And this week I'm gonna give away too much. But this movie features a cameo from another legendary BBC jokey whispering ball pints. What was that? Like god. I love Bob. I like whether he likes it or not I feel like adopted him as a kind of. My life and he likes a few months ago, his family or just so bloody lovely like invite me down just for fish pie to their house out. Just like on an afternoon just got the train down his place Pitney off and that Nielsen Chapman was down during one of his under the apple tree yard sessions. And we sat round and had fish don't country music listening to him talk about music and about what moves him a music, and like an incredible musicians and artists and writers and creators they they don't take their talent for granted. And they don't take what they have to say for granted. And like you go watch someone like Paul Simon. And he's plenty levitating by the end of the game. You know, he's creating new world with his words and with his music and each word lyric and like line of a story has appointed seeing. In a point. And and baba sought like an understanding of what that takes where people have to go with us. And yeah, it was you know, as well. I'm not like a singer. I'm not a country singer. So it was bloody. And you're like. Everybody. Stay calm. And I'm like having applaud the panic attack in the corner went off me out actually, the king of country is in the building. And he's going to find. He's being really, really lovely. You're singing incredible in the film and was singing in a way, your I love is something that's where it all began for you. Really? And then yeah, I think it was actually like music is such a massive part of my life. I don't think there's a day when I don't miss into music, and I use it all the time in work like I always make playlists of different kinds of genres and composers whenever I like working on a script. And my mom's a harpist and a singer. And my dad is like, you know, self taught musician and apportion music was always like around in our house and kind of that way of expressing was something which was kind of respected and nurtured in her house, and my youngest memory is listening to my mom saying and being incomplete all of like how she was moved. She just to just be in our town hall where she'd have like American students over the summer and. Being the corner and seeing people's faces literally shift through the power of like her singing, and I think like music is magic like that. And it's not some thing that we communicate with each other every day with you know, and yet we all universally find a dialogue with like. And it's not even in your head. It's like in your heart, and your Gordon all of a sudden, you're like an accord crying your own. Oh. The experience you have. I mean, having seen a couple of performances of years now, and you do get into you know, it is something that seems to it does seem to capture you. Yeah. It does like and it always takes by surprise because I don't I don't mean to. I well, I feel like a half to go into certain places to tell the stories of these songs on an I I don't even if not like go in before the former okay tonight, I'm going to think about that. And blah, blah, blah. I just a takes me as well. And sometimes after it's kind of vulnerable like, it's yeah. It costs me also like a wanted to and I want to give it to people, and I want I want to have that experience with music, and I want to have that experience scripts, and I want to have that experience characters where it takes them thing from out of me and gives me so much more. Yeah. So many ways this is this rolls. Mother lives film is the mother load and away. This takes free pulses. In a way, which is fucked after this. Nicole Taylor is basically written the out of working for the next like so my life. Basically, I don't know why. Into working for them. But this is this is this is really cool. If you come back, the idea of music, as well, how big a part of your life, Spence, you mentioned Jazar up singing jazz in London, and you're not a huge country fan, necessarily, you probably are now you can probably coach I but. What's the main calling for you? What's what's the? Oh. I have no white Spotify thing. It was a Joan Jesse Bucky shown all that's on my Spotify. Now. I know my. Does not want. Like, honestly, I I love it. All yeah. At the moment. I'm listening to all of our our nodes. I love listening to orchestras. And I love listening to I don't know. I'm like just phone kind of Bob Dylan for the first time my life. Oh, phone whiny. And now, I'm like, oh my God. He's brilliant. Have you met this? Coming. He's going to be huge. Yeah. Because I have to ask you going to second here. But there was TV talent show when you're in your past as well. I do because I think I know something of what I'm speaking about here is well Jesse because I wanna played Fagin. But here's the thing vacant announce don't have the song together. They'll think so therefore we can't do we can't you know, what was experienced like you good. We could. But it would be, you know, be ripping it up. Fake was so bad, by the way. My mom typed. It used to play back used to watch it in the we learn the best things from the worst thing that you've done. In my life. Took that now. Somebody tries drags the incriminating evidence. Like, I look back at that time, and I count a feels like another life like is eleven years Gorno, I'm seventeen and I take in a year old school because I wasn't very well. And I like just needed some time at home, and I ended up in London in that year and ended up on this show. And for me, I was so ignorant to the whole light. Rick Merle of for me. It was pure roll. Like, oh my God. I'm getting to do what I would take ten million years to even be part of. I think it was just like going from moment to moment. I didn't really have an expectation of. And I was really like Lookie, you know, in lots of ways that for some reason people seem to like me. As I flaked like some kind of crazed horse across the stage. God. I like I look back. I'm we proud of myself. I did that like at that age is quite a big deal to put yourself in position. And I think my ignorance was my saving grace because it was just purely coming from love of singing, and and love of wanting to be part of this mad circus of family that I just thought I still love, you know, and there is a role nece there, which now I always want to I always wanna find that. Like, there's so many people who she in themselves often become mechanical actors or you got to keep putting yourself out of your comfort zone. And I think I'd let look back that seventeen rolled Jesse in teller don't piece oh hard on yourself. But like well done. Absolutely christ. Yeah. I guess so, you know. There's there's a weird thing that kind of what if because you came second, and I do anything, but had you won. It may not have said you on the path. The brought you here not to list room, not near you wouldn't be sitting going. I'm not doing the podcast. My life is empty. Brings you to base. It brings you to wild rose brings us to the stuff in the future. Yeah. I mean, we've got no control over life. Really like who know I could have done and I have ended up here. I always say what's meant free doesn't pass you. And you just got to go into everything with as much dignity can try and learn something from never expect anything and just surprise yourself and everyone else around you. Well, it's fake. I'm reviewing the situation. Once once we turned on the Mike Zekan pedal down. Oh, that was even worse. No doubt as mine. I don't think I'm doing if for many times about a dancer. Well, what's what's next to you? What's being thrown your way, really, fun and terrifying? Things can you elaborate? I can't quite yet. Okay. Interesting interesting. We'll next time come back here. Maybe we'll bust out the old Nancy vacancy wet and see what happens. Jesse gonna play. So that was Jesse Buckler. Absolutely fantastic. Really enjoyed that. And I really enjoyed also wild rose. But Helen here is going to tell us a little bit more about that. Yes. So this is Jessie Buckley is Rosalyn Harlan. She's just been released from prison. She is moving back home her mum. Who's played by Julie Walters has been taking care of Rosen's two kids. But now understandably says, okay, you're back. It's your job to look after your children. And meanwhile, rose herself is absolutely focused on trying to launch her career as a country singer a nuts, basically, the conflict of the film. She is so concerned with this dream that you know, she doesn't want to kind of reconnect with these kids, and there's this tension in her life between her family responsibilities and her, you know, her hopes and aspirations and it's about her attempts. Well, no, it's about her complete lack of attempt initially to resolve this conflict. But it's about her growing recognition that there is a conflict here in that. She needs to figure out what what she really won't to for life. It's written by Nicole Taylor who grew up in Glasgow went to grind up Aubrey in Glasgow to listen to country music. All the time knows this kind of story. Really? Well, she also the stunning three girls if you saw on TV last year's and mazing screenwriter, but she really gets into the heart of this character. And the idea that you know, it's as simple as just following your dreams. It's not as easy as all these kind of Pat phrases that we see on kind of Instagram pictures of sunsets. There is there is life to be dealt with as well. There are responsibilities to be sort of negotiated and considered an it's not just as simple as you know, need to get to Nashville, and then I'll be a star. There's there's other stuff going on in life. I mean phenomenal performances from from Jesse Buckler Julie Walters as you'd expect. But I don't think there's a really a full snow in in any of the actors in this film fantastic. This was a movie tweet it afterwards. There's really good argument to be made. I think that Judy Walters is the best actress planet that's fair. Yeah. I was just sitting watching are going Chrysler mighty this woman's been doing this for forty years now, she can do as far as I can tell any accent. She can do as far as I can tell any Sheldon. She can do comedy she could do drama and the same person. Does that incredible MRs overall spilling the soup, but physical comedy in in Victoria, would CNN TV compla- a mother with real soul real heart, again, an impeccable Scottish accent in this movie is well, I just think she's incredible. She's a bit of a national, Trish. I know she's a Dame. I feel somehow she's I kind of underappreciated she should be Dame your highway chief that can we telegraph McQueen double Damon. You do that Dame Julie Dame? Why not? It has a ring. She can also sing Chiquita by Abba under a toilet stool, which I don't be overlooked in these. Who can't she can teach Billy Elliot ballet come on. There's nothing she can do send her in against thunnus he'll shit himself. Within seconds, a lovely little performance from sofi or kane'ohe as roses sort of employer. 'em. She takes the cleaning lady, then becomes kind of her champion. It's just a really lovely Lil turned from her kind of Solly insecure. Not sure she's doing very well meeting in these aspects where the yeah buts when he will say as well as as well as thinking that Julie Walters may be the best Demetre on the planet this movie Rooney couple movies into Jesse Buckner career. Maybe think Jessie Buckley, become the best matching the planet in the next few years if she continues on current victory amazing beast. Yeah, amazingness. Yeah. Sing she dance. She wants batmans head and allowance all sorts of stuff going on. She's just terrific. Yeah. I haven't seen her be bad in anything. Good in them. Tom hardy TV show to she was too as well. So yeah, I mean. Just soul wrong, basically, including Thome Harper, and my friend Johnny who did a couple of days focused pulling. Yeah, really focus. Focus was often dare you. He was only there for two days a couple of shots. I thought were ripping out of focus in fact, lens cap was still home. So weird dare you. So we this. What are we give this? We give this four stars or stars. We gave this four stars four stars IMP. Awad rosen. I am in agreement with that next up. Ben Travis will tell us all about the Tory debut of one Jona Lewis hill it has mid nineties. It is mid nineties and is a live -ly live coming of age story about a kid called Stevie play by sunny soldier terrible, pronunciation, I'm sorry. If that's wrong, pronunciation was not great. It wasn't good. Was it? You were hoping hadn't noticed, but it did. But he was the kids in killing of sacred DEA if you traumatized by that movie, he is having a better time than he was in killing of sacred, but he still having some trouble. So he's about twelve thirteen years old living in LA his older brother played by Lucas hedges, kind of constantly beat the shit out of him. And he's just in that like awkward stage, but he meets a group of Gates's. And he saw hanging out with them, and they kinda take him in. And it's it's that kind of movie is coming of age finding people getting a new outlook on life winding you'll tribe, and this is very much inspired by Jona hills Charlton and unless isn't it? Yeah. I think so it just feels very him. Generally in terms of the choices of the cultural references and the music. Oh, my go- the soundtrack to this is incredible loads of amazing nineteen hip hop stuff. The incredible surf UK version of wave of mutilation by the pixies. There's a scene where he's kind of go is bold for the first time. He's try now if you trace and just constantly falling over it's like a montage of influence over over and over again in front of the family house sets it yet this alternate vision of pixie song as soon as that was happening. I was like I'm so in on this. So is amazing music. And it's just really really well observed especially Joan hills debut film feels really confident it's very stylistic showing that kind of bookstore ratio, very intentionally kind of lo fi film stock. But also in the in the choices that makes there so many scenes in this that just feel so real. So even though Stevie kind of get seven bells note, how Mba's older brother, there's a scene at the Seoul the phone he sneaks into his brother's bedroom. Well, he's away. And he's just kind of like rifling through the CD's Brian down notes of all the things that he should be listening to this shrine of things that his kind of gateway into the world. But then also when he meets these. Gates's he finds a so of another way of life, and you start to see shifting perspectives on the carrots is sounds sink street. And we're way it is. Except a lot meaner Ka-sing street was with your your brother can be the best person in the world. Yeah. In fact, as well show to Lucas hedges because he's not actually in the film that much, but what he does in those scenes at first you kind of hates these horrible character. But then you start to see him in a different light. And he plays that incredibly. But also thing that's great about this is the group of skate kids the Stevie meets they affectionately named him sunburn. They will have different nicknames. So you've got both grade and fuck shit who has that name because every single thing that happens he still a sentence with shit, which sounds like it could be lame. But if feels really kind of rail, and that's realistic, which big Probst agenda hill for that is big props one of the characters he's one of the other ones, but all of those characters in the group, really nicely fleshed out. And you get the sense that the Stevie this is like a will to that he is visiting and being enriched by but also won't be his entire life. Where some of the the kids it really plays into. The sense of privilege that there's a character cooled Ray. Who's the leader of the group on the hayme like skating is is his life is his way out says they are all in kind of worse stances than Stevie who's not from a massively well a family, but they kind of they get they just about get by. Whereas a lot of these kids have nothing and skating, either their scape, or it's the thing that they could do that's to kind of get them some kind of Korea, and I think plays that beautifully. I think the only thing is this some kind of constructs tools, the end the dunk quite ring. True. And that's because so much of the rest of it does. But the final five minutes of this film. Just put the biggest smile face. And I think it's probably my favorite thing of seeing this. I love this film, a really live it. And if you love things like Ling later, he lived acing confused, everybody wants people have compared this to two kids, the Larry film, if you so things like skate kitchen, minding, the gap recently, and you liking that kind of. Gate focused coming of age film. Absolutely see mid nineties. I really love this Ville rod. Yeah. Cowabunga as directly and I'm out. Tony hawk. He he dragged her fridge around Ireland. Twenty. No, okay. All right. Four stars in four stars end for mid-nineties bents as best when we seen this year. Now, I would wager. You would not be saying that had you hell boy. Reboots the latest version of hell boy gamble detoro made to help films back in two thousand and second full full four two thousand four two thousand four. Yeah. I I'm two thousand four. Yeah. And then we twos two thousand and eight. Yep. Yeah. The passage of time is a cruel mistress Senate both who's. Who's hell anyway. So so there's a hill boy out, and this is not begin with the view of the there was some contentious circumstances. And we weren't sure what he was going back and do hell boy three. And then he didn't have a new director, Neil Marshall. And and you help David Harper taking over for Perlman and Helen using this. We have an there was only one screen of this movie, and it was on Wednesday morning die before release. They will release sometimes us not a great sign. It's no casing, for example, and games aren't going to screen too much before comes out. Sure. Yes. Is it? No. It's the other kind towel. I'm afraid. This is this is not great. So we we start in fifth century England working Arthur beheads the blood Queen Nim way played by milio vich with some weird kind of like dubbed over voice thing. I don't know what's happening there. But says she gets into bits, but still there's a. Alive, and when the biscuit reassembled in the present day L, they've harbors. Hello, basically has to take her down. Somehow the thing is it's not a good film, the scrutiny did at least one more pass. And let's be honest, probably two or three. I think David harbour is great in the role. Actually, I think he's really really good. It's a different thing to what Ron Perlman did. He's a little angrier. He's a bit hairier. There's a lot more cursing because this is an already film, and they are desperate for you to know that are I mean, they literally say fucking in the first thirty seconds as a crow pecks dead. I bowl of corpse. They are so keen that you understand that super gory in violent your parents. Hell kids. Yeah. This is cool. I mean, just like grit. That's interesting because I don't remember the being that much swearing than the Mike manual comic books. This are you know, on this just kind of glossed over I read a lot of elbowing. But I I don't think of it. A huge part of it. Maybe it was more sort of the the violence and the the ability to of go to the edge that way that they were worried about and then the this wearing just a bonus. I don't know. But yeah, as good as hell, boy is I feel the problem here is he doesn't have that team around him to buns off in the same way like oversee he has in McShane his father figure, but McCain is is kind of played this role a million times, and it kinda shows this points both of helpers sidekicks are handicapped because Sasha Elaine who is so great when she's given room to work is saddled with his English accent that seems to have consumed her this time on Olshan seems to be focusing on his trying to get the action, right, which I'm afraid she doesn't. But also that that then gives her no nothing to work with her lines of the worst in the film. And maybe she could have delivered them better. She had been worrying about the accident. Or maybe they were just bad lines at no one could save. I'm not sure Daniel came as great. But he's so busy keeping a secret from us that we don't see why he's being. Tunnel fishing till super late in the day, which I think again, kind of hampers your ability to really connect with him. There's a lot of little fund service nodes here and there, but maybe just it just doesn't really work. I think almost unforgivably for English director Neil Marshall can be great when when he has material to work with. But this does that thing American films do where there are only two types of people in England in the in the UK, there are the super rich people, and there were the cockney. So it's basically stately home or consular state and nothing in between an I just find that incredibly heritage. And so that didn't make me warm to it either. Because I haven't seen this yet in the run-up to both of the del Toro films which have a love affection for and they are they have that kind of horrific moments. I think forgotten how intense the tooth fairy sequences in where literally pulling people's eyes and gravity people's faces twelve a and everything. FM OEMs no f- OEMs, but it they are charming that warm Xiaoming films and. Phil favorite scene. And Hello to is when hell boy name Sapien get drunk and sing Barry Manilow is is like such a liberally moment. It has that tennis to it. And it seems the trailers and things that this is is lacking that. Yeah. I would say that streaming Helberg strong, but it gets drunk on his own. And he's angry, for example. I mean, there is I think something that must be deliberate to del Toro, which is that we start in Tijuana with sort of Mexican wrestling match that feels like a deliberate sort of Omar of some sort, but it now, I just I was bored. I shouldn't be born. That's a shame because I had seen some footage of this. I thought actually was was encouraging and promising and showed the horns are great. They didn't do huge box office. Which is why wasn't a elbow three. But in the one from them one for me dichotomy of persons career, the hell films don't really fit into that neatly for del Toro because they are both one for them on one for him. He loves monsters comes across. Yeah. In every frame I so meticulously designed beautifully lit and well acted role permits fantastic and such a real affection for those films. I was hoping that this film might some way might match them. But it's it's a real shame. I hope to see it this weekend. But for fresh out here that two stars. She starts to stars than for hell boy. An and fray very quickly in dispatches. We should also mention two other films little and man who killed Hitler. And then the big foot which gives. Elliott's a long overdue lead. Yes, it does. So just to take quickly from that name. You might be expecting a sort of you know, exploitation. The hotel monster movie essentially on it's really a very somber. Character piece about guy who did vile things during the war and was extremely good at them. But has never really learned how to kind of reintegrate into society and who lost a lot doing that. And has never come to terms without loss. And he's now a loner, and he's kind of embittered, and he's just very separated from people. He's he's hurting he's traumatized and then cold back into action to face this new threat, this Susko twitch threatens to unleash a play humanity. So the title is technically accurate, but entirely misleading at the same time. Basically. Some Elliott's great film is a little bit patchy around him Aiden Turner, places younger self doesn't. Okay job. It doesn't do an impression. But he tries to get a little bit of Sam elite flavor. Does he have a big tash? No. He doesn't think just because there's only one of those taxes. You can't really you can't really mess with us industrial bike story. Like, why would you grow Tosh? Like, why would you not have tache like that? And then grow tash like, then why would you? Oh, yeah. We'll maybe he didn't know the hug glorious moustache would be. I think there's something to anyway. So yeah, that's it's an interesting film or than a must see. But if you like some Elliott, it's got a lotta some Elliott for you. And then little is a film that was pitched by Marcel Martin from black ish, I think when she was ten and she becomes the youngest credited producer. I believe in Hollywood history, which is the stoning, and she is fantastic and this. So this is basically Regina hall plays. Jordan who is this tech company owner, and she gets transformed into her thirteen year old self who's played by Mark Martin. They're both great. It's a Ray who plays the put upon assistant who becomes the sort of mentor figure and kind of friends to the younger. Jordan is also fantastic of nothing against the leads toll. I just find this a little bit uneven in its comedy and definitely too long. It's the guts of two hours. And if it was about Marsh order, I think. Would be significantly funnier for me. Isn't it weird? How is seeing two of riffs on big in in cinemas within two weeks of each other between little and Chisholm is both big if superhero and big if the opposite. Wait big foot. And then hit the whoa known as Louis. No wrong, grad. I'm big red. Oh, my God mobile this week. Suffers big star big foists. Yeah. Big everything. Great. Well, then everybody three stars three stars for little fantastic. Is as it for this week's NPR podcast. Join us, but not me crucially cannot stress it enough next week from more film related fun. When we say, we mean me you, and maybe you maybe, but definitely not me. We'll be joined by Andrew Scott star of steel country and Neil, Jordan. Co writer and director of Greta both are yeah. Big fact taken over. Yeah. Absolutely. But yes, until then until it a spacious occasion until we meet again is goodbye. From Ben Travis cowabunga dudes. I enjoy you. Sign off spent six keeps me alive or three things. Keep me alive at the moment. The to do I wanna know. Well, you can guess I mean one of them is the end game and game. And the other is the new pope pay now football. Okay. Four therefore things keep me alive. It is goodbye from Helena, harra Diddley scoop by for me. I am as I said off down the beach tomorrow, two pm tidy whitey's nips out the whole kit and caboodle follow me on my Instagram. Snapchat slide into my DM's for more information. But basically two pm beach round back vast sea, then thanks for this name. See you in three weeks by.

Chris Helen Twitter Jessie Buckley Disney America director Ben Nichols writer captain America Nicole Taylor Nick fury Kristen bell Oliver Paul Simon Donald Glover Greece Liverpool Joe Russo
It's the Autumn of Jessie Buckley

Little Gold Men

58:06 min | 10 months ago

It's the Autumn of Jessie Buckley

"This. Episode is brought to you by. Making sweet memories might look a little different this year but that doesn't mean holiday traditions or canceled. From Cozy Movie Nights on the Sofa to sharing holiday meals over video chat Ikea is here to help you add a touch of Magic to the holiday season visit Kia dash dot com or your local store to shop holiday essentials. Hello and welcome to little old men the award season podcast from Vanity Fair. It's such an honor to present this next award hero nominated and. The screw. Pandya. School and I can't deny the fact that you like me. There's mistake. Grew light you guys won best picture. I'm Katie rich of the deputy editor of Vanity Fair Dot Com and I'm here once again with our senior writer Joanna Robinson I Katie and our chief critic Richard. Lawson Philo If you look, it's been a really long time since we recorded since last week we did our immediately after the emmys episode and then we haven't talked about movies in like two weeks and there's been some stuff going on. You know it's it's a pretty MD release schedule for the rest of the year but right now is. A little bit of a lively time, which is nice much. Thanks to Netflix's which we'll get into We're going to talk about a big rush of things, and then also in the back half episode have Joanna's interview with Jessie. Buckley who was in I'm thinking of ending things just a few weeks ago that we talked about and is now on the four season, of Fargo, which has premiered on fx and Jessie Buckley is a very big like film twitter hero these days. So good get I'm excited here. I know they do the get but. She's fantastic. So yeah, but first of all. So yeah, we last talked Richard Gere. Still in the midst of the phone festival we did an article wrapping it up including the fact that nomad land had won the audience award, which is a big huge traditional Oscar precursor in. It's a little unclear what that's going to mean this year especially because there's a lot of movies that are going to be coming out this year but one that is coming out that we have. been wondering about released a new trailer as we recording this I, it's eight twenty minority which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival you're worried about it there Richard, the trailer I mean a little raw from having watched the debate last night. But like it made me very emotional to watch the trailer for a movie I haven't seen and all reports from. Sundance suggests that the trailer that the movie has the goods at the trailer is promising something that actually really is Great Oh Yeah. It's really great. I. Mean. It's probably the best thing I saw at Sundance. and. I'm wary to talk about it because I'm just I'm just so nervous that like these released tapes are going to keep changing and I don't want to get people excited for something great in the next couple of months. But but just in case it does actually come out between now and I don't know twenty, twenty four. It's written by Chung. Who is an interesting independent filmmaker and this is a really autobiographical piece about. Some version of his own family father and mother who were Korean immigrants moved to rural Arkansas so the father could. Basically, I don't know create a version of the American dream and agrarian farm life kind of thing. In some ways. It's a different perspective on the American immigrant experience that we tend to see happen in cities. This is not just like suburban and this is really rural, and so it feels like a new thing in that way I? Mean I'm sure it means it's not other other things about this too but but the the compassion and the. Warmth and the the humor that he brings to the film and the Casto's. That at the very least in this year is going to feel like hope very refreshing and welcomed by people when they get to see it. I WANNA I wanNA little bit of optimism. So eight, twenty, four, sent a preview of this trailer yesterday and said that the release date will be no later than February twenty, twenty, one which. Given the new Oscar schedule that that doesn't mean awards eligibility. So I think minority now gets to me something we get to solidly look forward to thank God I. Think we really needed that I'm ready I'm ready for Stephen deserves an Oscar nomination. Round to let's let's do it. For burning. He got so much acclaim now and maybe a few critics awards but didn't quite get through but it does seem like a bit especially given how movies there are like the seems like a small movie. But this might be the year for small movies at the Oscars and if I could you know I would hate to pit father and son against each other but Steven Jahn is fantastic in. The movie is the father who moves his family to dislike trailer in the middle of nowhere. But Alan S. Kim, who plays his son who I believe is kind of standing for the filmmaker is incredible like one of the least like precocious child performances so natural. So funny. So moving that you know it's not as flashy as I see dead people or Little Miss Sunshine, but like it's been nominated before. And in fact, one in the case of Tatum O'Neal non-opec and so. I I wouldn't want to put that weight on his shoulders. Tiniest is but Yeah I mean the cast in general is terrific. But yes, Stephen as the biggest name in America in the film he carries it with a real humility. He's not the lead it's not showy. It's it's a very much an unsolvable piece, but I'm sure that his presence is what helped get it financed simple as. Well No, but he's he's one of those. You know he walked and walked off the walking dead. He left the walking dead more. You know the biggest show in the world or whatever, and he the what he's done. We talked about this back when burning was something you were talking about on this podcast but like what he's done with his fame. Similar to like Patent Center, Kristen Stewart or whatever they're like I've got scads of money and a lot of fame and let me bring my star to these other projects and and also because I genuinely what he's interested in doing I. Just I love him. I'm so excited for another year where we get to talk about radius and not to be like base. But like he spends a lot of the time like sweaty and far. Said honor Sunday. It's episode like it's not a bad luck. I'll. Just I'll just put that out there. I might be reaching I. Don't know because I've only seen the trailer, but it gave me like in America vibes do you like? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah and not just because it's about the Asian American experience but like is similar to the farewell. There's a wonderful grandmother character. But it doesn't feel like in America didn't. It this doesn't feel trait or cliche doesn't own. Here's The stock grandmother character, and here's The stock kid character it just everything feels so. Particular, mend individual and I think many filmmakers have tried to cinematographers their own lives. It doesn't always work, but in this case. Really pays off. I. Mean I left the theater I would just tweeted to to someone when the trailer came out that I left the theater kind of like Santiago remember from American idol. Sleeping but also clapping and you know. I was a mess and happiness and living person reference and twenty. figure it to. Someone of a tangent but as speaking of Toronto movies that we didn't get a chance to talk about Richard in your rundown of Sunday right what you read about minority you also mentioned having the father. was, a Sundance Premiere. It also played at Toronto, which is how I saw it you know virtually and you I. Think you planted your flag basically like Anthony Hopkins is going to win a best actor Oscar for this The movie really is terrific I. Think as we sit here and talk about Steven Young Lake I, don't know that we're going to be like Anthony will run away with it because who knows, but I didn't WanNa shot that movie which is it is coming out in December from Sony Pictures Classics I. Think At this point, we can count on these smaller movies that didn't that don't have to make a hundred million dollars in theaters to break even like the tenets. Or West side stories So I'm excited for people to see the father I thought that movie really held up well to you know I didn't know that much about it and kind of assumed it was gonna be a chamber talkie based on a play drama but it's it's a lot more interesting than that I liked it a lot. Yeah. It's really formerly interesting I mean I it's a very well made movie in an intricately interestingly made movie and I think the nice thing about the father now that you've seen a Katie the think you'd agree is that like it's so light and charming and fun fun. It's like it's not depressing and terrifying all no I'm kidding it's about Oh and reality. Collapse. It's a perfect. It's perfect movie for right now. Oh. margery prime which I think was also. came. Out a couple years ago A lot of like is just people in a room but it the way that the film can kind of twist your sense of what's real and what's not it's really well done. I still have the posted a link in it survived a move I. Have a posted on my monitor that says Richard Shot Anthony Hopkins? Oh. Diction from Sundance Richard I'm rooting you remembering bets from before the pandemic started is very impressive very on brand for. Shoot he's GonNa win. In a normal capacity. Is going to win. It is an undeniable performance like gum in inasmuch as I'm almost convinced for instance, McDonalds going into yeah. Well Yeah and he was Anthony Hopkins was so great and Westworld, and any has this like commanding Anthony Hopkins of about him and there are some of that in this but also so much else there's all these layers that I think you might expect someone this late in their career who's already done so much can really coast through a lot of things there's coasting in this, which is really impressive. Did you nothing? Anthony? Hopkins says the TIKTOK. Actually. There's like a grandchild who's got him on Tiktok or is it just it's really Anthony Hopkins I mean like I know the other ones are real but no, it's like it's the same as twitter where he plays the piano sometimes than just like says stuff and sometimes a cat and this is well, we should talk about kind of we're dancing around is out a lot of release dates have changed since we last talked about movies on this. West side story for me was the big one on. It moved out of Christmas, all the way to next year I think that and Dune. We're kind of the last two big releases of the year like okay. So that could be like the Big Studio Oscar Movie dunes is still in place I don't know how long it's GonNa last and I think now it's just seems kind of clear that like this year's Oscar race will be smaller movies that don't really need to make a ton of money in theaters. Are you are you guys with me that that's a safe assumption by now? What's been interesting to me and I I think this is yes ending what you said and not moving off what you said. The only thing that I've noticed and this is self selecting audience because it's like our listeners but there's like a, there's a slack group of our listeners that I am aware of and a lot of them were snapping up tickets to various festivals like verge film festivals, and like getting to watch you know the New York Film Festival or buying Chicago Film Festival or something like that and getting to watch movies and so like maybe it's the maybe in some regard it's something of the reverse of what I talked about when we were talking about Toronto in terms of Lake. Film Bustle stuff not reaching wider audiences and like okay. But at the same time the it's more, they're more accessible to some other people than the hung than in years past. So That's interesting as well but I think I think that speaks to your likes. So the awareness of something like nomad land or something like that. It's like are people going to be aware and excited about that at the Oscars will maybe if they went to a virtual film festival, they will be I. Don't know you know. Yeah. I don't know what to expect about enthusiasm from like color normal people about the Oscars this year like got who knows what we happening in April it is again, very hard to see into the future but I think if you're someone who has seen any of these movies has seen Nari or nomad land or you know going back to first cow, which you know I've been holding a torch forever since then like it, it is going to be the year for that. I think like unless they cancelled the Oscars which I don't think will. You know you're not going to get west side story or even deep water like none of that stuff is coming. So here's what we got. No best original song for the new one they surely added in the heights anyhow. I mean there is it is going to be interesting like if it does this like the visual effects category is going to be really strange original song the stuff were studio movies really tend to dominate. Even, thought that far ahead, we'll something I wrote about when I kind of did like what the Oscars could learn from the know you know social distance emmys was that like The Oscars are always bigger than the EMMYS and the emmys got terrible ratings this year. So hopefully, by April, they could figure the Oscars could figure out how to attract people but one of those would be kind of like the be amazed like you can film some musical performances remotely right and not that the Oscars should become a concert but like they could rely on five best song nominees and that would peppered throughout the night. But if there aren't big studio movies coming out with big songs. Do they even have that. which you know from from a broadcast concerned from a ratings concern. That that is a big problem. I like the trolls world or song me I. I'm GonNa I'm GonNa look into this for next week I'm going to figure out some original song contenders. Very curious because the the academy's new rules they don't trolls aren't included anymore because they. Knowledge trolls. To revisit that policy. Union Serve Different Union. I mean. So with no land winning the Audience Award at Toronto and then you know kind of all these films dropping off the schedule like that does feel like a big contender in a way that it might not at this point in other years and I, know Mandolin that'd be really excited to of run the table this year is there anything else that you guys are feeling specifically hopeful for? As being a contender now that it might not have been in a normal year. A movie that I reviewed last week is the nest another Sunday and standout actually is out now in some theaters and then it's going to be on the Vod in November. And that's a movie from Sean Durkin who did Martha Marcy, May Marlene God the nine years ago or something. And then he's done some TV in in England since this is his first film since then and it's really dark and interesting But most of all is Carrie coon who gives dislike show stopping performance as. The wife of a man played by Jude. Law. Who has dragged the family to his native England. And she's kind of realizing the many compromises and two seats of the marriage. And she's just ferocious and she so good and normally in a normal year. That kind of performance would be allotted indie thing. Maybe maybe maybe some critics awards or a spirit award nomination or something like that. But with a much emptier field potentially. And if the movie gets put in front of the right people I, have my fingers loosely crossed for her yeah and I feel like it should be emphasized that there are ton of great movies to choose from for the Oscars like the fact that we're not getting giant. Tenants eligible that other than that. There's not that. Big Movies to choose from but there's so much good that can come from this and they feel like any sense like the Oscars will be empty or they'll have to like scramble to find enough people to nominate this at the echo that thinking there's way too much good stuff. Oh, completely it's just GonNa be like as you said, different a different angle of approach but still a. Of Film and especially in this year not Santa mawkish about it but like I think you know like the stories that that we could find and get invested in have been really helpful. So. At least for me. So yeah well, and the thing that we do, you know it's an empty release schedule in theaters, but Netflix's has a full slate that's coming in. Change there as far as we can tell and neglected to put this on our on our rundown of what's coming but the trial was Chicago seven has been screening for people and I've seen it twice now because I watched it and then showed it to my my boomer and laws who loved it obviously, and I really like to join I. Don't think you have seen in Richard I think you have not yet? No. I have. I'm reviewing it next week for the quick release We should probably not talk about intimacy tell them. We can get into it then, but I do think that kind of emerged Netflix very coordinated and I think a little foolish thing where they made everyone like or they made a lot of people like watch a livestream streams they all watch at the same time and then got the thing that no one can get right now, which is like a big flood of tweets afterwards everyone talking about it all at once. And I think that really worked out for them because it's it's a crowd pleaser than and it played really well even on my laptop. So I think that's a a huge look out for that. We can get into more later it feels. As exciting as it was to have films like parasite in Moonlight Win big big at the Oscars I mean maybe there will be this idea that does the trial Chicago seven you've having seen it confessions of this feel like a throwback to like what? Used to dominate the Oscars and I'm not saying it's better that used to be the case but like maybe there will be like that desire to cling to that. Feel. So Oscar in a way. Yeah it's much more of a classic like moving grownups crowd-pleaser than a lot of other stuff that will be out there this year in. The nineteen nineties s is a podcast about the decade that changed US interviews from some of the biggest names in fashion including mutual Prada on Ford have inclined Marc Jacobs Dapper Dan Donna Carris McCartney called Kid MC Toria back. From folks editorial team and presented by Anna Winter I'm Hamish Bowles join us a decade unforgettable fashion listen and subscribe on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get. So we can say this Netflix's cul de sac actually now and talk about some things that you can watch. Because again is often the only people who have new stuff and you guys got me to watch in all homes which I liked so much and it apparently is very popular according to Netflix's internal metrics on it. I. Don't think I don't. It's Kinda hard to keep track on how anybody is making anything eligible I think it's kind of a if you say so it is but I don't think homes is going to be put out there for Oscar consideration, but I liked it a lot. So, okay. Here's the right I went on with homes. I was made aware of the projects and I was like. Oh. Sherlock's little sister already that sounds silly I. don't really want to see that very much, and then I watched the trailer and I was like Oh. This looks like a fun. ROMP. Geramny can be less of a SNOB and just enjoy yourself, and then at the very end of the trailer, they dropped the rating credit, which is Jack. Thorne who's the one that I have had a very tough time with in terms of various projects that he has touched over the last several years he did like the Harry Potter. Stage play he did his dark materials adaptation to the Secret Guard adaptation like in terms of someone who he's he's been tapped to adopt a lot of like British cannon things and and I've just found again and again I find it has no sense of what made the source material good in the first place then really pessimistic. But then it was like you know is that friction list Netflix's things where it was like Friday morning and I was like Oh. Maybe I'll just background watching all homes while I do. and. Then it was just a delight and my sister texting me over the weekend and she's like tell me something that will make me happy and not sad. Watching homes up. I think a lot of people were maybe a little too overboard and saying like Oh, my God a star making turn for Millie Bobby Brown and stuff like that and I'm like I quite liked her in this more than I liked her in anything she did in stranger. Things. But. I could have deleted five like cheeky winks to the camera and still been You know all in on on the movie. So yeah. Yeah. That's that's sort of how I felt about it. What did you think Richard? I was charmed. It's a funny project because it's essentially just a why a reimagining of Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes like in the way it's filmed Da. which you know I like that Sherlock Holmes is much is like I think people grown at it but I think Netflix's doing a weird thing where they are almost without the probably the legal restrictions creating a kind of fifty studio system for its actors. Just see them popping up in like other Netflix's projects and like. Millie, bobby around the debris cout star of stranger things to. Then, get her own lead movie I know it was supposed to be the triple released but. I I think it's interesting I. think she quit yourself well, I think she rises to the task. It's fun to have two older guys who are of varying fame actually probably same class with probably less famous than she is but you know of supporting her I thought it was charming and like you know the kid the boy they find for her to kind of hang out with is like fun and cute and like their romances handled, I think in a in a very modern way. So he's got such like a pretty unthreatening adolescent boy energy like he's got some soft face. Perfect. To Capri all over. And the way they handle it is smart they're not being so like overly aware of the time by saying the female protagonist can't have a love interest. It's like she can. It just can't be the only thing you know like yeah I. Think it's all really well proportioned I think it's Funny that in the movie that I don't think it's a spoiler. The love interest the Marquess of wherever. He gets he gets haircut like. The movie and it's like the haircut makes him look like any TIKTOK, Abloy Right now. So it's just a gentle way of the film being like, okay. Girls today or boys to obviously watching this think he's in different clothing but like pretty much you'd see this kid Tiktok and. Out Very true. No one thing I did knows about an only slightly annoying me but mostly I just thought it was interesting is that there's a lot of effort in the execution and the screenplay to make sure that audiences couldn't accuse homes of being a mary sue they're like issues capable of anything we're GONNA show you exactly why she knows how to do all the things she knows how to do which I don't think it's something male protagonists are burdened with but in a Post Lake, Ray, Star Wars world, I feel like that's that. That screenwriters think about which is too bad. But homes is a is a fun heroin for for folks to latch onto it, and then also you get all these flashbacks of her leg doing combat training with Helena, Bonham Carter, and you're like, great how about Him Curtis Great in this movie I don't about that in house that Netflix thing with her being on the crown about how if like if Helena Bonham Carter is now Netflix's stable of the fifty studio system like great pop her in anything I will be excited to watch it. Yeah. Well further on the Netflix style as you know if you're Morgan Freeman and you channel Surf through Netflix's he. is how he discovered the Kaminsky method. Richard you reviewed the boys in the band this week and I, and I like to review because I. I knew that you didn't like the stage show and those kind of prepared for you to not like the movie which I think you did but you you really went to ephesus that you went in with an open mind like you were ready to kind of change your mind about this whole thing and then it didn't work honestly that sounds exhausting. So thank you for for going through that process at all. Yeah. I mean, I. I had seen the nineteen seventy, the William Freakin. Version the film version based on the sixty eight play in college like with some like gay friends you know theater friends or whatever. But that was a long time ago and so when I saw the the the new production by Joe Montello produced by Ryan Murphy on Broadway in two thousand, eighteen I kind of didn't really remember the dynamic of the show or at least not as an adult like an adult living in New York. City. So kind of like the exactly the blaze about. And I hated it so much and I, like tweeted about it and some people got mad at me on twitter other people were fine. Were just like well, you know you're you're wrong or whatever but. Anyway, he kind of stuck with me and then found out the movie was coming out I kind of. Did a big Gulp and was like God I can't believe I have to wait into this again. But in prep for that, I did rewatch the free conversion I saw the value of what the piece is in its time. I think my real problem is it really shouldn't be revived if it's done on thoughtfully as this movie is. It's I mean other people liked it like past future gas mark Harris really enjoyed it. He wrote a long piece about it for New York magazine. It's gotten largely positive reviews. So I might be someone in the minority there but I, just think it's so cartoonish and stagey and the acting especially from Zach into Jim Parsons is really over the top I. Mean they were big on stage and they're really big on film and it just really doesn't work for me. That might be simply an issue of of preference and taste honestly like it's just not my kind of thing i. Mean whatever. There's been a lot of discussion. Gap Around this right that if you were not, you know a gay man in the early seventies, you can't really understand like what this play met at the time to kind of represent this and you know Richard No fence you're not like agenda Tick Talker So I'm I'm curious about like you standing in. Stand inbetween earlier generation like a current young generation like I just wonder what's a twenty two year old would think about this at all like if it would feel like it's from a different planet. Yeah. I mean they might think that my particular generation I'm thirty seven. We were a little bit. You know like like like Moore's were changing culturally when we were in high school into college and so I came out in high school but many of my friends didn't until college after there were certainly not a huge onslaught of mass media about gay people targeted at gay people. We were close enough to the generation that really had suffered terribly the generations plural that had suffered during AIDS, and so we're always in this kind of I. Think every generation thinks that they're like in the weird question mark problem generation but like I really think historically. People my age gay people kind of fell into this weird limited space, and I think that this production is is meant in some ways to bridge that gap I mean most of the actors in are in their thirties and forties you know. So people of my generation sort of reinterpreting this thing that they're queer elders. Held up as dislike vital early pre stonewall thing a distorted like insistence on gay. Visibility. So it comes fraught this piece, this piece comes so laden with meaning both personally, and culturally for people that it's kind of hard to grapple with and I think that's probably also what's What incited such like repulsed reaction for me is that like the thing just hits big either either good or bad you know and for me feeling as part of that kind of like. I Dunno lost generation or whatever like I not lost at all but but sort of middle, generation? Feel. A little I. Don't know the younger gay person is because I think. So much of it is going to seem like ancient in terms of the humor and whole you know this this pageant of self loathing and I'm and I know that are kids today who feel that and I you know I wouldn't I wouldn't ever begin to say that like everything is fixed but. I don't know I'll be very curious to see how the whole thing is received when it's out I've been tardy. Well. It's coming what two weeks after Rachid Premieres which I guess ratchet is getting watched a lot but you know it's been a big year for Ryan Murphy Adjacent Netflix Projects, and then the the problem which feels like if anything like at the Golden Globes nominee and anything can be a problem. So I wonder how this kind of will fit into the overall arc of Ryan Murphy and his extremely expensive Netflix's deal and how it's kind of rolled out in force this year. The Ryan Murphy of it all is its own podcast feel like that. That whole thing and it's interesting that that's happening right as Britain Shonda rhimes as I show for net flicks is I think available for critics to screen right now these are the two huge kind of you know tent pole production TV deals that depolas data in the past few years and. I don't know that Ryan's Marine Murphy's is going. that. Well. But I think from. Beyond my own perspective like boys in the band is going over well, like it's been awhile reviewed I think either based on the responses to like when I tweeted my review out like people are love or hate it definitely GonNa Watch it granted that some confirmation bias based on who follows in who I interact with on twitter but. I don't know I think that like in some ways kind of. Like a violent reaction positively or negatively is the point and and so I mean mission accomplished even though I gave a bad review. Muslim. It's a little little bit of a sidebar but the way that this kind of exist as he filmed version of a play, not quite they but they cast in what the constitution means to. Me is coming to Amazon and a couple of weeks and obviously Hamilton earlier this year it's been an interesting year for letting Broadway shows have a second life which. I think if you're on Broadway and there's no prospects for reopening anytime soon like maybe that's a relief just like some of these works get to live on at all in front of the rest of us. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I this is made me. I'm more curious to see what other theater makes its way to to film even either between like. Literally a stage thing like Hamilton or this. I think that. A lot of these plays are going to have to sort of re interpreted for film because. Gathering public by not be possible for a long time. If you Jackman music. Man is a net. One night. Special I. Don't know. I guess I'll see it. Okay, and for our last show to catch up on. JOINT WE'RE GONNA talk we're GonNa have your interview with Jessie. Buckley. But unless unloaded about this season of Fargo, you have been I feel like a Fargo. You kind of expanding the Gospel since the very beginning and I haven't watched any of the season yet but I'm really curious about it like Chris Rock being on it is obviously intriguing. It's kind of a further back in the past period piece How is it? Yeah, it's interesting. I've been I have been a huge. No Holly Fan since Fargo Season One premiered on fx. Years ago and His the Holly Empires. Spread from there in terms of Lake, you know he did Legion and then he did the Natalie Portman astronaut movie and then he's doing this i. think he's still doing the Star Trek movie I think he's still on that project and my you know from afar diagnosis is that like maybe no holly has spread himself a little too thin would be my. Take on things because there's a lot to love about Fargo but it doesn't end. We should say, of course, Fargo is sort of infamously one of one of the biggest productions that was shut down by Cova then came back and finish in his now premiering, and so there was like a big covert interruption of making the season and so like I just feel like. For. Me Fargo needs like three more spins through the wash in order to like you know tighten it up to where like Fargo season one was I, feel like Fargo is a show you know as an anthology shows I mean it's just gotten lake looser and wilder as it's going on and there's virtues to that. Especially, I mean our guest this week Jessie Buckley. Actually love her on the show I. She's incredible. What she's doing is amazing. It's like physical transformation without like makeup. It's still like bodywork physical transformation, but she's on a quirk level that I find really enjoyable. But then like sort of a lot of the people in the cast appear to be like meeting her on that court level on it's like it doesn't feel calibrated as maybe past seasons of Fargo felt in terms of like balancing the oddball performances with a human story at the center that you feel like you can get swept up in. So that's my take on Fargo before it is an incredible gas Chris. Rock and Chris Rock is great i. mean he's he's sort of like kind of the straight man in the center of everything. But like he's he's great Schwartzman Jason Schwartzman who I, love and a lot of other projects. One of the people that I could turn down an honor to my boy Ben wishes here you know and a lot of like a fun character actor faces. You know that that you exactly what you want to see in a Fargo but it just feels it feels a little overstuffed to me in a in the way that lake later Legion also felt Richard Uni any thoughts? Well I. Think First of all, it's a coup that you got him credited in the opening credits as Joanna's boy. Which I thought that was shaded that long. That's well-done. I I think I've defended the Fargo series longer than some people have I even like the most recent season with you and McGregor that was the most recent season yeah. And I think a lot of people have sort of soured on it. I mean because the first one to are really good this one, it feels like basically what you said sort of hampered by its ambition and by its creators over extension of himself but as is true of any Fargo it does at least contain really interesting performances. I don't always interesting good in that in this case but. But it's an odd assemblage of actors I mean who would have guessed that Chris Rock, and Ben wishaw and Jason Schwartzman. All like in a period gangster story together. It's so fricking weird but but. You know there's kind of that's up to that and it looks great. It's like a high end production. You know so so yeah, I mean I think it's definitely worth checking out and you know not just because we have her Interview with Joanna but like but like it's really continually exciting to watch Jesse badly star just kind of like shoot into the stratosphere absolute end to do such a different role from thinking of things to do for. That was so different from wild rose like she just keeps showing us these facets of her talent at like barely thirty and I think that's really really exciting. She told me that she got she. She got the ending things role because of her Fargo screen tests like that. They love it and saw it and I can kind of see the bridge between the two in terms of like amid westernise as obviously like dialed up to like a frenzy in Fargo but. That and then also I talked to her about this UK film misbehavior which just hit vod in the states last week, and it's about this women's rights protests of the Nineteen Seventy Miss, world pageant a real life event that I was unaware of. But it's got a great cast got. Fons Greg Kinnear doing a bob hope impression Google. The Rod is just like it's one of those like very kind of cozy British movies about a real life events that you're glad to have watched and she's great in it and you know she's just she just has an energy and like the fact that she can calibrate that energy into different tones and moods in her various projects like that's our versity but no matter what she's doing. For, me watching Jessie Buckley like I sh- I can never take my eyes off of her I. Think She's just incredible. So now she's in Judy how crazy though She's Very, lovely small supporting role. Judy I guess I had seen noble right before that and I was like. She's everywhere. She's right now she she spoke to us from Greece where she's been a two week quarantine I think it's just about wrapping up now because she's about to start filming on Magilla story all debut, and this has an incredible casts You know Peter SARS guard contractually obliged to being all Maggie Jalen Hill films. Sure. But also Dakota Johnson, Olivia Colman and Paul Meskel and Jessie Buckley in Greece. Greece with those people, right. In Greece come A-. So yeah. So I'm ready to call this. Jessie Buckley fall between the things in Fargo and nothing. Ever. So let should we do the interview kickoff Jesse Bucky Fall Obviously starts with my interviews. Let it begin. Let's do it. Uh. We are thrilled beyond to have the podcast at the Great Jessie. Buckley. Star of wild rose of Fargo season four of I'm thinking of ending things and also of this great British film that just hit streaming stateside misbehavior that I hope you all check out the lovely Jesse Buckley's here. Jesse the last time I saw your face with my face was at south by South West the film festival for Wild Rose, and you performed a set on the stage and I was just like dazzling mesmerized by your singing and I've been such an avid fan ever since. So I'm. So I'm so happy to talk to you today. Some. I'm just curious. What's the wildest thing that's happened to you since last I saw your face with my face. Go. I don't know. I. Think I two cigarettes would broad Nearly at NYC because I was released vogue and it was all very. Very. Much and he was lovely. anyways that's probably the most embarrassing. The wild things that happened to me I think I was just having one to deal with the situation and was probably had drunk too much. and John One glass of wine to quickly and was having a cigarette in quick succession and inhaling quite quickly. And I was like Oh my God. And then he came out and he uses shot and you know he was just chapters Anyway I. Just feel like I feel like of even tell you this book. It came out my mouth. So there we go. He's just so lovely and you're just having pizza and you know it was somebody's book anyway? That's a perfect what my wildest thing that has happened to me this past year story pizza is out with Brad Pitt. See this really enviable sort of double slate this fall triple sleet. If you count misbehavior of the Charlie, Kaufman Project I'm the anything's and you're you're seeing stealing work in Fargo season four and I'm wondering you know when you play these two characters who are very different but both very heightened. In their mannerisms and in their in their existence, you know how how do you approach that as opposed to some of the other more Would you say like naturalistic roles that you've done? I. Guess they're both heightened world. So that requires you to you know you're not doing a Ken loach film or something it's. Eight requires you to expand. And in a different way and And for some reason that just both they kind of came out with this same time and actually I ended up doing Fargo Getting Fargo Fargo came my way when I was shooting I'm thinking vending things and I think they'd seen my tape for I'm thinking of ending things. So that's how that happened and then on set with Jesse and David and he was like I should I do and they're like, definitely, you're going to have so much fun. So, yeah, it's been fun. It's so formed like. I love all kinds of cinema I think humans and characters. Are Heightened. You know they're bold and and when you get to be part of a world, which like tells you to go to the extremities of where that might live. It's so fun free phone but you know the Coen brothers have really like heightened tone and like world where all their characters live in that and yet there are also people that you also recognize in a way and an Charlie's foams are. surrealist art pieces, but you also recognize the emotions of that even though there are taking place in a heightened circumstance. One aspect of your Fargo performance completely fascinating is this sort of is the physicality the walk for this character of your the way, your whole body changes from what I've seen you do in other productions and I'm wondering if you talk about how you put that physical performance together. Yeah that just came out of Venosa. I I think when I read her in my head when my first instinct over was like she was a female grim reaper. And then I just I just told she was like kind of Birdie in my head. You know there's something birdie and who's on the Ron. and. Yet she I guess just where my mind was being drawn to her like things like like something quite birdie and edith fee and and just like that. She was a bit of a creature. You know she didn't belong on human soil she was half the afterlife and half in real life and. I think that just came out. I don't know what happened. One thing that I love learning about you and I started doing some research for this is that year career was already on Like an upward trajectory and you went to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art rata like after you had already, you know achieved some great heights and so I'm wondering you know what was that Decision Lake for you? Why did you decide to go back to school at that point in your career I guess just a chance to quietly nurture I thought I might be able to offering to. Industry and and a family that really cared vote which was you need to me to take that time to discover her and ask questions and push boundaries of even the stuff that I was being presented within school. And to make speak uniquely from my voice and also be a bit naughty and get drunk in the pub on Friday nights. Always, very important. That's probably the most important. Sounds like you had your priorities exactly right. One of my favorites is in I'm thinking inventing things you get to do so much in this film in terms of slipping in and out of various personas. But my favorite thing that you do in this movie you know which is currently streaming on Netflix folks haven't watched it incredible multifaceted performance from Jessie? Buckley. But my favorite part is when useless into this Pauline Kale section the film critic, Pauline Kelly sort of adopt persona as acting film in the car. So I'm just wondering what your approaches or something like that when you're going to not just discover or explores the different for your character but to. Slip into an imitation of sorts of of another person I think it just Kinda came off the script really I didn't know who putting walls before. I. Read the script. And then I was like working on dialect and. Even the dialect for that woman it was never something you know rooted in place because there is no place that she comes from. And I and something that meeting charity you know from our very first interaction was that this is somebody who shape shifts and. Molecular and explodes then embodies other things but she has she's not controlling it to something which is also Coming from Jay and I'm his memories are, and so I think just. I just started watching Paulina Kale. And then probably someday on my bike started speaking like. Listening to wife headphones joined to copy your voice. That kind of thing came up It was fun and then we got into the car like it just took on its own. Thing just Jesse was slightly but terrified he was I. Oh, God here comes a weird British lady. I don't. Think, you kind of fear of some haunting. Her something like the episode. Because character that you're playing and I'm thinking of ending things is so largely, you know a concoction of the male protagonist played by Jesse Plans Jake it's it's sort of a result of his own imaginings because that's true when you're creating this character when you're shifting her personas all over the map in this film. Do you work in concert with Jesse, plans to do to create something like that is that much more of a collaborative process than it would be recruiting character on your own kind of although I guess the thing is is like I can't play the I don't exist because you exist as you are in each moment. So each moment was its own reality and then you know seconds of film that changes in itself. So something which is constantly like expanding bobbling house and and I guess the script as a film goes on maybe there's an awareness of what might be happening and kind of falling down in avalanche of things and not being able to get out. So yeah. We kind of discussed but I think we just played the scenes as if they were real that we're like that in real life like you know, we have a weird phone voice when the tank Coles or some. Thousand then knew the voice unit, there's all we're always adopting are so to the circumstance that we're living in that moment and and we're not even aware of this that's the thing and when you're in a situation where actually that becomes dangerous precarious in there's something about your own survival instinct which probably kicks in to try and you become alert you know when? That happens quickly something that he then your your life is then on the line and you're you're trying to survive. So. As watching misbehavior, which just became available here in the states and this is the film you made with an incredible cast cure nightly. By the RAW Keeley Hawes REC- fons like all all my faves. Greg kinnear doing a bonkers, Bob hope impression all sorts of you please this real life women's rights activist named Joe Robinson, which is really fun because that's my name. But this life woman who was part of this protest around the miserable pageant nineteen seventy and this this protest sort of helped spark the women's rights movement at least in the UK. I'm wondering when you play Job Robinson or when you play like Ludmila from. These women who are still alive and around what pressures in wet and what delights comes with doing something like that. That's a whole other bucket of joy because. You know it's something very tangible. I can never be that person, but you're trying to understand what their view of the world is from where they've stood. And is gorgeous like the mazing women have crossed my heart and left really important lessons on my life for me you. And when you get the chance to meet the more, you know meet them on the page or meet them in person or watch things about them. It's it's both incredibly powerful and also very humbling and you you you just realized how can I swear? How fucking coup people are. You know like. The things that people area to overcome or achieve or change in the world is incredible. You know and I feel really lucky that these women have evolved that they've. Inspired me to not limit myself I don't know who I am or what I might be able to be but I feel lucky that these women have inspired. Something powerful. So. You let me know before we started recording that you are in Greece right now quarantining that you can start work on a new project you're working on the lost daughter, which is Maggie Jilin, halls feature film director, Oriel debut, and then once again, you're just working with a cast of all of my favorites including Olivia Colman, Paul Meskel of normal people and Peterson Guard says. Based on an anti book I'm just really really really excited for this project I'm wondering you know specifically about it. I mean I don't know how much you can tell me about it or whatever. But something I'm really specifically interested in is this idea of working with a director who's also an actress and if you've had any conversations with Maggie so far and how if at all do they differ from talking to like a Charlie Kaufman or you know a no holly or someone else on a different project? Honestly I just think Maggie is going to be phenomenal i. just think she's going she I just think she's a leader. Yeah. I just think she's going to be fantastic like collaborative leader and she understands both sides of the camera. And? Feel incredibly safe going on this journey with her and I also just think she's a real kick ass woman. And with this material, I can't think of anybody better to go on this with a truly account I can't wait to get going with her. So yeah. I feel like she's being she'll have be able to have an empathy. For all the parts of this while also like. For some reason, this story has come her way and she has the need to tell the story and story about motherhood and. Womanhood and life. And Rebirth for a reason and has wanted to do that by being somebody who's like curation at. And I think she's going to kick us thinks she's going to be amazing. I'm somewhat notorious almost podcasts maybe only in my own mind for turning any conversation into a discussion of musicals. That is my superpower as an interviewer, it is not at all difficult to get there with you. You have a musical background you appeared in a little night music on the stage. So you know you've got the chops. We know we've seen it in wild rose if we didn't get to chance to see on the stage and wondering, is there a musical that you have in your mind the you and most like to do if you were asked to do another singing role in film? I really love like, I love like the dirty German. Era. I like Cabaret Kurt Vile I. Love Kurt Vile stuff. I. Think it's so nyc just delicious naughty in dark. So yeah I probably drawn to that kind of stuff. Okay. So I'll be counting down the days for Jessie Buckley Stars in threepenny opera. There's something like that. Is it true that when you're in school and like when you were much younger in in in student theater that you were often cast in in the male roles in in your student production? What was going on was that is an all in an all girls conference coup and I actually remember like the first 'cause it soaks. It's very it's quite a momentous moment when you get to the shows and school in the school that I was in and they do amazing shows this woman Kameri Buckler who's the teacher there is just was just fantastic and one of the biggest kind of. Inspirations for me really. But yeah, I think the first year the are auditioned I think it was west side owner. No, it was chess. and. I wanted to be the girl and I think be the girl and I was I, was heartbroken is my first rejection I think I like cry? But then it was so great and I and actually how to define the girls from the boys. We all older men had just French platz like to French platz quite boxy musty red suits like I had this excellent way too boxy Red Zeus, and for some reason, his what they used to put like red dots on the corner of in the middle of our is that we didn't look cross eyed to the audience. I don't know if this is a true thing or not. That actually happens that Yuna cross-eyed if you don't have red dots on the inside of I've never done this anywhere else in my life for. So we all had red dots on the inside of our is boxy red seats and PLATTS SIA Freddie trumper chests than I think it was Jesus or something in the next one and then I. Was Tony West side story my last one. Involve very funny. I don't know if you think of it this way but I I've just I've been sort of dazzled by everything I've read about what you've done leading up to now now is just like Jessie Buckley Jessie Buckley fast and furious but there was so much road that led up to it and I don't know if you think about that in terms of the before time the before I achieved this level of success or famer. Work or whatever but I'm curious if if you if you do think of it that way if there is something you did that you got up to in the before time that best prepared you for for what you're facing now, which is just a lot of you know work attention I don't really feel like it was a life before I've always worked you know like I moved to London when I was seventeen and I've loved every single part. When I was seventeen are couldn't believe this but I couldn't believe that it actually happened. And then there was times when it didn't happen but a kind of just loved that as well. I always found something like. I ended up singing jazz in around London. That was like its own little experience, my life and singing these clubs were nobody was listening to me and. I felt like, I. was Kinda. Barbra streisand in the sixties. And then equally in between things I would sell cereal in markets in London and I liked Dash, I, don't know I. Guess I'm grateful for all the parts because I think if I have to tell something human I, have to have lived humanly as well and I'm not interested in the veneer la I'm interested in like human you know accomp- odd the things and all the journeys, all the chapters, and I have so many chapters that I'm yet to go on and. You know who knows I might in my go away tomorrow so That be fine I'll figure out. Well, Ans- is next it's all movements. Of Very Song time ending and and you always have quarantine Greece's a moment. So there's that Well, thank you so much Jessie. Buckley for for chatting me. I really really appreciate it. I always have quarantine. Greece. I hope now. Oh God. I'm glad I'm glad you met your fellow Joe Robinson. She can I say she is also kick ass like she's the kind of woman. She's she's got purple hair and she wears biker boots I was like you are my hero. And she's just rocket she's January rock and roll. So yeah. Yeah I saw the photo for I. Think it was in the Guardian and she's got like pink purple hair and I thought yeah that's that's goals. That's the that's the Joe Robinson I aim to be. That is what I will be shooting for my life. She became A maternity nurse, which is just such an. Yeah Midway so gorgeous. Anyway. Your namesake is. I have a good one. That doesn't for this big show. We'll be back next week. Please find us on a Vanity Fair Dot com win of Richard's reviews of many great things in Toronto screenwriting and things for me. Once in a while to you can find us on twitter at little Goldman and on our own Katie rich and Joanna jared this and Richard Rilo. This week's episode was edited and produced by Brett Fuchs, and this award for the best reason that new mutants won't be winning. Any Oscar is Costa Richard Lawson. The academy's new rules and they don't trolls aren't included anymore.

Netflix Jessie Buckley Fargo Oscars Richard twitter Anthony Hopkins Jesse Charlie Kaufman Stephen Toronto Tiktok Joanna Robinson Katie rich Fons Greg Kinnear UK Richard Gere Ikea Greece Chicago
I'm Thinking of Ending Things

Uncovered Cinema Podcast

1:38:54 hr | 3 months ago

I'm Thinking of Ending Things

"It's just. There's just so much to talk about because it's been it's almost been like almost a year now since we at stopped recording. I think it's almost it's to the month. I don't know about the day really. Yeah there's i mean time. Flies man especially during covid. Yeah if you've made it this far though. Congratulations you've made it through the worst Chaos and i mean the pandemic. The the worst black lives matter. I mean it's it's been a hell of year. All came down at once in wine and One event after another after another. A home relating accumulating in just the series that happened at the beginning of the year that frankly just blows my deigned. Mind you know yes and all of it has brought you to this point. What's going on guys and welcome back to uncovered cinema. I'm brian a and i'm will and we are back at it again. I guess this is gonna be a. It could be our soft season too right. Because i mean we. It's it's amazing to me that we had started a podcast that reviews upcoming movies and production culture. And i would have thought that it'd be four proof right. We can however the industry four weeks after we started the entire industry shuts down. It's not one of those things that you ever think of. Happening not industry's been around. Since the you know the turn of the century just shutting down out. You don't expect that. It's just not something and i mean we didn't have it bad. I mean it's still a year later now and in some studios are not even making movies yet. They're still trying to navigate the the complexities of working with covert. I mean we're getting down to a point now. And there's there's this whole thing with with zones in different phases of stages if you will it's almost like the six rings of hell or something you need and the closer you get in the closer you get to people that are that are more exposed like actors. That don't wear masks and stuff. Yeah absolutely and i know of so many guys in the union. That are down here in florida. That still having gone work at all since covert has started one. Yeah they might be too afraid to go to set because you hear about whole entire set still being shut down to this day because cova breaks out on because they're not taking the proper procedures because some idiot isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing absolutely in you know it's not just the illusion of covid if you have one. Pa sneeze on the whole thing gets shut down for two weeks until and tell everybody can test negative again and they ensure that. Nothing's going on there. You know it's it's it's Were you we'll get into it. I mean we're i believe later in the in the in the shower episode. We're going to be talking about. Yeah news and what's what's going on but Welcome back to us. Yeah yeah welcome back. It's great to be back. It is great to be back. I tell you what absolutely after that just gauntlet that we ran through. It is great to be back. It was intense definitely. It was a mental challenge for for everybody In and the best we should have been there for it to to give you something to listen to during the times but That you weren't doing anything but it was also a challenge for us as well so Welcome back we. We have a a new format that we kind of want to present to you guys. We're we're trying to you know Rough everything in in kind of like Improve everybody's trying to improve themselves and we're trying to move forward and in ra What we wanna do yeah trying to create a more enjoyable in entertainment experience to have so we can listen to it and others can listen to it and have a really good time. That's that's a good point. That's because during cova. I went actually and was reviewing the things that we had recorded things and i i was. I was flabbergasted with how much cussing we in the first thirty seconds of one episode. There was probably twelve cuss words. That's yeah i noticed that cussing was a lot cousin was a big thing. So we're not. We're not doing you just by using adjectives. That don't don't that can be so interchanged without any meeting at all. They don't mean anything. We're just flopping them in there and and we want to be. Yeah we won't be able make this enjoyable that you can listen to with everybody in the car. Your kids your wife everybody right. You can't do that if the hosts are cussing every now and like every other word. That's not okay. That's not every then is okay every other word. That's not okay. Yeah yeah exactly so anyways. So we're moving on. We're moving forward and in movies are for everyone so hopefully. That's that's where we're going to be bringing to you inside your car with what i imagine as a baby strapped in the back seat and and and it's not going to be watching the movies because they're not making them still we're still. We're still countering those challenges now. The industry is coming back. It's coming back slowly though. A lot of the stuff that you're going to be seen opened up right now is a lot. More commercials specially local commercials. They're jumping on the bandwagon of having a lot of union. Guys not working at non union guys. Who would be working not working and not charging as much so. You're gonna see a lot of that work pop up But for the most part a lot of movies aren't filming and if they are not hiring as many crews they were for at least from what. I've noticed yeah. That's that's definite. I think we're seeing that a lot around all the different industries as well as a major cutback in the amount of staff that you do have which i guess is good. If you if you can't get hired. I'm you know i was looking up to to work on a set recently but yeah that's a good point because i was a the cinematographer as well as the sound guy and i was even touching up up here and there. So that's the only one that passed the covid so it's like welcome onset. That's what's gonna go in the features. The testing the kobe testing especially the the code The covid shot that they're giving out the Vaccine all the vaccine has got to get the vaccine. If you don't have the vaccine you're not gonna be able to work in. The industry like soon Just so many so many people willing to get it that why. Why even take the chance with the non-vaccinated personnel has to get tested. Every now and then when you can hire ten grips or ten of anybody in your department who is vaccinated so just something to think about going forward but one thing i have noticed ever since that covid has lifted off in this over this past year is the addition of cooed compliance. Officers onset if you guys haven't heard of that is a huge job right now. Covid compliance officer. It is your job to make sure that the set is staying compliant to the covid standards of where you're filming so make sure everything is sanitized. Make sure people are adhering to the masks mandate make sure Osha if they come through isn't gonna find you guys with a whole lotta money that right now as cool as you can get the certifications for that. You're almost guaranteed to find work. I didn't even think about that. And that's you're right. That is something that is popping up. I was working in burbank a few weeks ago and they did have a covert compliance officer. They were actually the ones that help. Take the tests as well and then you had to sign some paperwork and stuff. But i notice was kind of funny as is know some of old habits that i used to have pre covid. It was like it. I'm trying to sign the paper in the pens out of ink. You tap it to the tip of your tongue writing. And you're like i just again. It's one of those things that's gonna be a little hard to shake but we're working on it we're human beings and we're trying to improve it out going to be another thing we're gonna beep beep beep the hardest going forward. We did good. I made it almost ten minutes. Okay so what are we talking about today. We got a good one that you've been talking about it for a few weeks so excited about this movie. So we are changing the format of our podcast. A little bit. We are going to be announced talking about a little bit about us Recap the first. I just like we did. Then we're going to be going into a movie. That's readily available for the most part through one of the streaming devices whether that's netflix's disney plus something like that gas because we realized that it's also tough for you like we're talking about movies that are coming out and up and coming and you know that's ten twenty bucks throwing popcorn at a hundred and eighty bucks just too damn movie the movie theater and we're trying to make it something that's more accessible for for you guys now so you can. You can join in as well and listen and then watch the movie and analyze it with us and also this is now a forum for you to join in on your thoughts as well so we out there like larsen and you. You don't think he'd have different dropping. It's you can go back and check the other episodes if you know what we're talking about but we're we're moving on from that word a little more mature nowadays so you can actually join in on that and and just get back as well. Yeah thrown down the field and we want to hear your thoughts on anything that we're discussing here that's why we wanna make movies Or not make movies talked about movies that a lot easily accessible to everybody. We want you to join in the fun. What yeah we don't let we ought to be honest. We wanna make moody's don't have any money so after we explain what we were gonna watch where you guys can go. Join us and watch it at. We are going to break. Watch it ourselves than come back and discuss it now. We're going to be developing deep into this diving as deep as we can from initially watching Little bit of research on it. But then we're also opened up to discussion anything you guys want to tell us about two and then at the end we're gonna throw a little bit of a little bit ahead hidden trivia little bit of little bit a discussion in on on some stuff that may not necessarily be in the best lighting or may be in great lighting awards or things like that yet and you know me i love my simple ism so you're gonna get my my symbols symbolism and start copying them together like a monkey and we're gonna be also addressing the upcoming production information and news that that we normally address as well we just want to make it more inclusive like i said so so we'll be adding all the industry news just like we always did But we're going to be adding it towards the end of the podcast and we're going to be making it more center towards Pretty much anything in the movie industry the more and more towards the streaming stuff in the movie side not necessarily the tv show side all right. So what are we going to be watching today in dissecting afterwards so when i was on netflix the other day just chilling. I ran across this one movie. I've been meaning to watch for dude ever since it came out it's called. I'm thinking about ending things by charlie kaufman you may recognize. His name may not He's a director of a little known movie. Called turtle sunshine of the spotless. Mind movie crazy deep movie. So when i saw that i was like you know what let's check this out nice i'm thinking about ending things. It sounds a little suicide he to me but it does. Do we have a synopsis of this. One what is the synopsis to. I'm thinking about anything is full of misgivings. A young woman travels with her boyfriend whose parents secluded farm upon arriving. She comes to question everything she thought she knew about him and herself. So this is a adaptation from a book that was written by in read It took him three years to make any purposely left the book open to interpretations so he can see what other people's thoughts and the way they took the book in the way. They understood the book because he said basically. Everybody's is valid now. The director of this movie basically took that and ran with it and this movie is what we got out of it. I i see. I'm looking at the from your description. Initially this sounds like this could be like a horror. Movie or a thriller is that it's it's a suspenseful movie. Yes it's a It's two hours and fourteen minutes long Suspense it's a little bit of a slow burn. But trust me when i tell you it's worth it pay attention all i'm gonna say because get ready for trip. My man get ready for trip. Yes going down symbolism at my my that's my forte so i'll be on my diet a comeback and dissect every single thing. That's going on there. But already i'm the kinda sing a lot with the names here. I'm thinking about ending things. And then and then what we have here. Is this kind of the description like you said it sound. It sounds open ended. it could be. It could be something for pitch to lifetime almost something. That is a happy comedy. I don't know where to go with this. So i'm i'm already a loss of words of what i'm expecting. I don't really know. And i love that when i don't know what i'm yeah. Expect began as working in production. Both of us. We've seen that following that three act structure can get a little bit triton overdone because we just see you can. Yeah you can predict what's going to happen and it's almost it's almost like a bar trick that it's become more i've where i can tell people. Oh i know it's going to happen because it's got to follow a three act structure dark and especially american cinema a american cinema storytelling. Yeah i it. Follows a narrower a guide As far as how the story is told taking like you know avengers in the The captain america all the marvel movies. They all come out with the hero. Wins on the top. You know as we've seen with with trained to bussan in in parasite movies like the the main character never doesn't always yet doesn't always win. And that's one thing that's really started crossing borders with Within the entertainment sectors well is the whole Heroes story and it's been said and it's been used so much in cinema. It's been being pulled over into video games. Just about every single video game follows a hero's journey to dane team works you know. And that's that's one thing about this movie. That really strikes me as does it. Follow the typical hero's journey or not right and i think Something that we've touched on before is that it's it's there is this kind of like Identification in in america cinema that we. They are kind of getting tired of that. Because we're having this. Embrace of asian cinema wins worrying african american female leads. We're seeing a lot of that coming around now within this last year and it creates a much more interesting storytelling as well as offers a different perspective from What's you say on a non white cast because we day worth of that. Nowadays zidane recent movie for instance. My god it was beautiful. The lighting on her made herk low. It really made her stand out. But you wouldn't see that you know ten fifteen years ago not at all. That's why i really enjoy about today's cinemas. Everybody is able to make movies. I love that. Yes yeah even if you got a reasonable qualities us mark phone. It actually takes very good video and you can. You can get away with quite a even a lot of these. add apple commercials are filmed with guns. That are stock. I think it's it's pretty amazing quality. Now we're getting nowadays. Yeah absolutely The quality of the Iphone twelve is insane. You add just any Filming pro apt to it. Which is a twenty dollar app that you can get in the app store and you put that baby on. Am a tripod with a ball head. And my god. Did you can film anything that you want to. Yeah exactly and you know coming from the photography side my gun. We can do raw video now. Rob rob pictures Wow that's amazing that that we can do that. Ask phone now and you can shoot an apple progress which is basically raw. And it's very it's very well is very easy to edit on is very easy to use. It's a wonderful kodak Right there the iphone literally all you need is a professional tool like filming pro that shoots out that allows you to film in the different formats at different speeds in the different qualities. Black white. Whatever you wanna do and your phone is just as good if not better than a low end. Dsl our camera. It really is whether you wanna believe it or not just depends on how you shoot is not necessarily what you have in your hands guys. It's who amera you know we're going to get back into this and a little bit later as well. But that's that's also the benefit of having all these niche media's come out that the paramount plus everything's plus nowadays disney plus god. Yeah we're gonna be talking about disney plus later hold onto your bridgestone that it's all over the place but It's it's also allowing people to tell their story in a more and get their story out in a in a more easier way now So yeah. I'm looking looking forward to this the the movie that we're going to be watching. This is available on netflix. Right now and it's i'm thinking about ending things about and Seems to be about a perspective centered around the woman which is which is again gonna be refreshing to to see that and didn't wanna this a movie come out. Let's take a look at this is just a few months ago Came out in twenty twenty. It has the leading by jesse plymouth. Who's playing Jake one of. I love him in everything he's done so i was very excited to see him Jessie buckley i wasn't too familiar with her However after watching this movie. I'm going to specifically hunt her movies down to watch him because my god anyways I don't want to put my personal feelings about this movie out there before you see you. I don't want to spoil your judgment on wants you to watch it and get an honest feedback from you. So i'm trying your opinion. Because i follow the script and having watched the movie yet so return i just see. I wasn't supposed to watch the movie. But i did so. Yeah well we should also touch on this as well. No this was one of the Ideas of of doing uncovered cinema is actually finding movies. That are not as popular to uncover for you and and we really can't do that unless one of us watches the movie. But you're still going to have that fresh perspective. Because i haven't yet seen it because there's just so much to filter through that we have to go through and i don't want to. I don't want to waste time. Waste your time by bicycle through and not good because some of them are just bad and that is also the drawback of having all these various medias that we can watch the stream things on nowadays. So i'm thinking about anything. I'm about anything's right here. So that i can watch. I'm thinking about it and and it seems that when we come back we're going to break down in and kind kinda give it to all in one in one sitting right here so if you haven't seen it you're welcome to posit and and come back and we'll we'll be with you again right after this break okay. So we're coming back now. Welcome back to us. Welcome back did you. Were you guys able to re watch it again. Well or did you We took a yeah. We took a skim over reviewed. It and Caught a lot of stuff that i wasn't expecting to catch but then again really is a movie that you have to watch multiple times and i think even then after like we were just talking about that once you once we uncover all these things that we noticed there you may want to go back and read and watch it again yourself because it's one of those first of all. I'm kind of like mind psyched out. Because of everything. I just watched fill a little like of. I don't know about you but for me it felt like a little bit of like a College art film but once he learned about it. it's different as a stronger impact. It definitely has that like film student vibe where cinematography is the main. The main thing in story. I take second place until you start realizing that the entire stories so elegantly woven into every single shot that you realize it goes far far far beyond what you initially like. Yeah he you know. Oh my god. Can you do we by chance. Have the this synopsis again. Let me read this. I got it right here. Let me read the synopsis. Because i that it itself as a total yeah. It's a mind it puts for children but to a certain mindset before you even walk movie if it's crazy everything down to even the synopsis. The littlest details in this movie had thought about. There's not a single thing that happens in this movie that shown in this movie ever. That wasn't planned out by the director. It's insane right. It's also important to note that. I'm the one that always says this as well but that this is that way with with every single movie like that is what makes movies so beautiful that his people have months and months to plan these things out and and we're talking people that are the peak of their game. They've been doing this for years and years and they can think they have the opportunity to think of. What's the mind of this character. And how are they thinking and what would be in their bedroom and what would be on their nightstand and and put those things in there. So that's what makes it. So beautiful is that you can go back and analyze all these things that this character of lyndon because it's at the end of the day it's all fabricated. It's completely made up. It's all done set in every little thing that is on frame is in there for a purpose in the way that they frame it. And the way that the the Build the atmosphere. It all tells the story of this person's life absolutely for good movie. That's absolutely what happens but more often than not. We have bad movies. That were watching. That don't necessarily have someone who thought all the way through like other actually very rare that we get a movie that is this thought out. You know i mean every should be this thought how but then again we get you know and so seemingly all over the place when you watch it without. Yeah without knowing about what's going on in in in how the way the story is being told it's you're just you're on a rollercoaster ride and you're being taken all over the place and seemingly a scatter of like some things don't even make sense like the the the gender scenes until the very end didn't even make sense or like what. What does this guy have to do with the movie because we just have random jump cuts to a janitor sweeping floors and i. I will admit this is the first movie in a long time. That made me physically exhausted. It's uncomfortable the whole movie. It portrays a to the audience. It makes us very uncomfortable. It puts them in situations. The the cast are put into situations that are very uncomfortable to watch And and it doesn't let up the entire time. So i agree. I definitely makes you like exhausted afterwards. Because you're like you're making like i. I caught myself making faces that i would make if i was put in that situation. But i'm just watching it so it was like. Why would i be doing that. You know yeah. I love i love so many different parts about this movie but one of the significant points that really stands out is when she starts talking like i said no. I didn't have to give my number. Like i should have ended things with him awhile ago. Like all these things like. I shouldn't be in this situation here. And i just love that she points it out but yeah it's like it's interesting because it's it's like something an audience member would watch going into a horror movie. I'm not saying this is a horror movie. But they would say. Oh no don't do that. Don't don't go up them stairs when someone when someone a mass murderers chasing you and they do it but in this case she was like oh. I know but i'm still doing it. Which i actually find is a really. I think more realistic idea about how they would behave. Just because of social norms this is the way like. I would probably act that way around a weird person anyways because just going with the flow and stuff because that's how our social behaviors are wired. And you don't wanna like upset a person that you're with that you care about but at the same time everything inside of you is telling you know don't don't go I thought it was kind of like. I almost me the killer. The the kidnapper mentality you don't get in the van and find their puppy but they do it anyways. And it's not always because of smarts it's because of social faux pas you know yeah it really begs. The question of at what point in time is enough enough. Like when is it going beyond being polite and saying yes. I will give you my number. Yes i will go out with you to like okay now. We're now we've crossed the you know. Okay so we might be dating. Whatever i wanna. I wanna jump into it. But i wanna like like formal here so just in case. You haven't seen it. I know we've already been talking about your coming midway in the show. I'm thinking about anything's if you haven't watched it. Check it out on netflix. Right now and then you can come back to us or because there will be spoilers. We're gonna tear it apart right now because that's what we do. So i want to go back over the synopsis that we originally read and and then we can start from there and we'll say going before going into it. I feel like this movie is just way too much for us to touch This is a really beautiful movie. It's really well thought out and there's also so many complicated ideas that they are trying to unravel in touch within this movie and there's just not enough time and we're not gonna hit everything but that's also why we're asking you to to let us know also any major points that we might miss some of the things. Yeah absolutely the poems and stuff are just way over my head. There so complicated but i can i can. I can see how they tied into the character. So yeah and i have Some theories in some suggestions along with those later but regarding the we'll let me go into the synopsis really quick here more misgivings. A young woman travels with her new boyfriend to her parents. Secluded farm upon arriving. She comes to question everything she thought she knew about him and herself. Now if having seen it. I think it's pretty awesome that the synopsis of this movie focuses on the perspective of a woman which is something i thought would be more interesting At the start before having seen it but really it's as we know now it's the focus is actually on the the man himself so some of the questions i have wrote down during the movie was It becomes very apparent with the jump cuts that we are not in the present world. We're not in the real world. So i'm thinking are we in the mind of a schizophrenic. Are we in her mind. Are we in his mind. The janitors mind. Is this the whole figment of his imagination. Because there's these random cuts to a seemingly unconnected story with janitor but as we find out. Now it's it's what i'm believing. It is because this book is fairly open to interpretation and that is exactly how they wanted it It seems that the the boyfriend is the real person and everything is if figment of his imagination. Because the whole world surrounds him. We're going to the farm to see his parents to see his family. He's presenting his new girlfriend to the family and everything is around his mind. I believe in. Yeah go ahead yeah yeah exactly. Everything is centered around him. Everything is focused on him even the beginning with the girl. Everything she is saying is about him. She doesn't have a single thought that has to do about her. She doesn't think about friends. She doesn't think about her job. She barely mentions that she has a study for school. And with that even keeps changing. She is so focused on him. We don't really ties into like everything that this movie is about. You know right so and it's what what what is happening is so. This girl is a figment of his imagination. He's dreamed her up in his head. And just like we can have these grandiose dreams about the perfect woman we also have the The self conscious that maybe. I'm not enough to hold onto the perfect woman and maybe there's things that are. I'm broken about me that that things that she wouldn't like you know maybe i'm too fat or too. There's things that she wouldn't like about me and as he's thinking of these thoughts she is changing herself so the it's more of a realistic dream of his ideal girl because he's thinking he's thinking about the things that she would not necessarily like about him as well and the judgment and all that is there but you're right her things about her the clues to this. That things about her are constantly changing throughout the movie. she was a student of physicists. A waiter a poet and an artist and she changes between all these different things throughout throughout the movie as well as most notably like the things that start messing me up and the mind is or parents like are his parents they. They start changing getting older. Yeah as as she walks into a room. There are different age. There's definitely a lot of our questions in his though. But the that was the most notable that we weren't in the real world as the parents were changing from room to room. Yeah and even littler smaller things than that Her makeup would be different from one scene going into the next same with her Jewelry one seen. She'll be wearing nothing than very next. Seen the very next time you see her she is death out in beautiful pearl necklace. Yeah it's just the little things that every time. He thinks he needs to make a change to make her just that much. Better mind he does that right and like you pointed out with the age of the parents. If you ever noticed that the parents rarely there only on the same age weight age wonk. What once when first entered in the apartment but right after that initial drink dinner everything just goes haywire. Right and their ages are jumping from super young to super old depending on what he thought was the best representation of his ideal parents so he wasn't just trying to push off his ideal girlfriend. Used trying to push off his ideal parents. Well he's trying to feel avoid that he obviously has from his childhood all the way up to adult it would so i think real about that is Striking about that is that that is how i think about my parents as well. You know. it's like my parents are now in their sixties. But i still see them as the parents they were when i was six years old. It's they're still that same image to me and it's kind like i get our perspectives of our family change. And and maybe i am. I have blinders over me. And i don't see the way my parents are necessarily now and sometimes i noticed that when maybe they're trying to stand up or something in there and air all the bones are creaking. Because they're they're older now are they. Yeah they go on a walk and they're sore for two and a half weeks. Because i see that side of i don't know that side of my parents and they exist and every age in my mind and is i think kind of what they are trying to trying to show. Is that the that maybe also that wind is the perfect age range to shut like to show your family to your your your girls exactly so changing and his mind. Yeah win is that ideal time. It's all about that ideal time you know the one award that he got in the real world that we're able to at least determine that was from the real world wasn't the best award and he's mentioned that like. Oh you know. My dignity was dignitary award Yeah yeah. I got the dignitary award. But i didn't get the best award but he got the second best award but he couldn't look at that and see accomplishment now that he only saw the negative fact that he didn't get something better yes Believe in that diligence that they was in diligence diligence award diligent But if you also noticed during that his mom always d- talk down to always talk down to him right. Did it in a nice way like we talk to- dogs when they do like. Aren't you just little doggy. That doesn't order thousand. Basically how she was talking to him the entire movie right and i. He's not that we can create monsters in our own head like the you know. Monsters don't exist in real life but we can. We can project the the negative things that people that have happened. And we can create real real world monsters in our in our heads. And i feel like that was kind of weird moment which i thought why. Why are they if this is something he chooses to imagine. Why is he imagining. What might have been a real relationship with them which is like when She the mother leans into kiss him he he pulls away from it and the father won't even look him in the is if you notice that at the beginning when they meet not a single time in the entire movie the father look. Yeah so it's a an obviously in this house. There's a lot of unanswered questions that we didn't get to address in the in exploring this movie but For example the the basement which you can you can write a whole friggin Thesis paper on this movie called all the stuff aid they hidden side every other word. And what's important. I think as well to to note is that this is just our perspective on and they even make mention of this in the in the film when they're talking about The diagnosis of a movie that they had watched mutually and they both have different perspectives on it. And you know what they're both right. It's it's that's kind of with this world is it's a perspective of what you think it might have been. And that's exactly what the director and writer wanted. They wanted to leave everything up to interpretation and have it make it more of an experience for a personal experience for the audience that they can interpret for themselves so we are trying to be a little bit more general and read and possibly interpret what they were trying to do in this film though because that again was also another story that the director had from the writer was to interpret it. The way he felt that that they wanted But i feel like one of the major representations of this and it's also reinforced through repetition. Several times throughout the film is this notion of That we all do with our deal with ourselves is dealing with age but not necessarily death. I didn't feel like death. Was the major focus. It was more about age in it was reinforced through the metaphor of a train for us at the beginning. They're talking about a train. That's going fast and you can't get off of it and itself as a care is an engine for age because it's only moving forward and then again the mother Also mentions the train to other times in the film and Even says that it's a train taking us to hell because Age only moves forward So yeah yeah. It definitely looked at it definitely pushes the fact that it is trying to say that this individual is thinking back on. You know his life his time wasted like i just lost my train of thought trains. You lost your train of thought on trains of great but this movie is really trying to push the fact that it's time time is being messed with the parents getting older and younger with the train. in the very beginning even with the poem of coming home to an empty house with nobody there the fact that i hate coming home loneliness. We talk when they're talking about the loan that prelude the holy whole movie. Yeah do foreshadowing. Kenyan man got so dr. That's what i love to. It's so morbid. And darn like she just with right down at really dark alley when they were talking about a homecoming and i was like gosh. You must not be very excited to hear. Your boyfriend's parents be passed because it was so how and he loved it. Yeah yeah and even in the beginning is like that. That poem was about me. You it sounds like you wrote that about me. Ed with what was man. What's cool too. is that this. This whole film is a engine for representations of age moving forward and so everything in the story line for this character has to proceed forward and everything one of the things that that they had. Did this two major scenes of driving a lot of the movie takes place of driving and the had the way that they'd filmed that they created this. This sense that we're in a car driving but we're not going anywhere if you notice there's no other cars there's no the background is is partially escaped us except for the day scene and even then while the day scene is moving. We're not getting the sense of movement that you would normally get in film if they were driving in a car. We'd get the feeling that you know. There's there's things happening but in this. In both these scenes there was no movement no movement going forward so the character just stayed stagnant and stuck in the timeframe that that the the the user wanted them to stay in. I'm possibly the boyfriend. I guess in this case would be talking about. Yeah and that was definitely done on purpose to show that because everybody knows will at least us in the film industry knows that establishing shots are used primarily. When people aren't vehicles show that the vehicles moving that it's going to the next location they didn't use any establishing shots and they did that on purpose. They wanted us to feel like we're not doing anything or going anywhere. Yeah yeah it was great and and so. Now that we're moving into like the shots. I think One of the most apparent abundant use that they did in this one. And i think they did really well is the use of negative space and even just showing the title. It's so anybody on the screen you can barely see. It's all black screen. And just this itty bitty title it just just gives us feeling of insignificance in in in visibility. It's just we're not even worth looking at the title of your movie because that's all you know it's almost fine print and again sorry going to beat me on that one but it's powerful powerful when you don't show things and a lot of the the shots used a lot of this negative space and also helps contribute to that mine trip Was that when you when you build a shot. You like to create nice symmetric Scenes nice leading lines. You make them nice and symmetrical one character on one side one or the other and it's it's and even almost always in this one almost all the shots were asymmetric and it kind of hurts your brain a little bit to watch it because the shot always just seemed a little bit often framing so that could utilize that negative space in most the one i noticed it most was for the car scenes when they would do them both head on they would both be at the very bottom third of the screen and everything about it. The two thirds above it was just snow falling in black sky. Yeah and then it counterpart to that. I'm sorry to interrupt you but important on the same thought anytime we moved into the girl speaking. I'm most of the shots in the movie. Anytime we move to her thought process or voiceover or her speaking we created a very chaotic clustered shot. It wasn't it wasn't a simple shot to show her. So it just stood out very very noticeably from this empty space in one shot. and then we'd moved to her thoughts and it would be so busy. I instead of using a traditional side shot in through the front window to get the character they would use the a column the column of both vehicle of both sides of the vehicle and framer in this almost through a dirty window. Even of like of maybe not dirty Snowed frosted window where she's just a small figure. And all this mess of lines from the car from the cars pillars and it wasn't clean but it created a sense of chaos in our mind and that's kind of what i felt like a lot of her thought process was was undoing in making sense of all the the mess that's going on which which i can relate to a ourselves because that's that's a lot of what we do when we get stuck into our brains. Yeah and yeah. They really chose different shots especially with her coming from any time that she was talking. Just like you're saying going away from the talking when they showed the next character More times than you realize. They are showing the next character as like. They are entire face filled. the whole frame. It was shocking is comfortable like the. I was uncomfortable the first time it happened and i started noticing that it was only happening either right before she spoke or right after she spoke bows just a way to like shock. Everybody but it didn't happen with. Jake only happened with his parents when his parents were looking at her right. And yes so. It is just the the director in the Cinematographer really used the shots in the film to Bring out just the sense of smallness and insignificant yes and may even us as the viewers feel like ooh. Yes i feel like i matter very much right now he there. Jeez so one. The things that i saw. I didn't interrupt you. I'm sorry but one and he did other things that i was curious about too is is. There's this obvious. Use of one of the first scenes in this movie is. The wallpaper is beautifully decorated wallpaper. All of it is kind of vintage right and so every time. We're in sight of a house inside of a any building. There's this intricate vintage wallpaper. Being shown in all the rooms with the exception because it stands out very prominent when i don't see it of the stairs in the hallway where it was just painted bright green color What do you. What do you make of that. I have a couple ideas. But i wanted to ask you about the use of that wallpaper. You know the use of the wallpaper just like everything else that he or is shown in this film just really radiant radiates being stuck in the past the shows that he's watching The wallpaper is all old from the sixties. The shows are definitely from when he was a kid. Everything even the music he listens to is all from the past. He has not been able to go anywhere he's not been able to move on. That's at least what i'm getting from. The side piece especially when his character was first introduced. Yeah or the old man was first introduced. I that's something. I'm still thinking about after watching it. It's obviously it makes it more visually interesting to see this decorated wallpaper in the vintage style then just painted wall but when those painted walls are shown stood out so prominent and i notice when she was walking down she went upstairs was like a faux pas. Like don't do that. You know it was. It seemed it wasn't actually said but it seemed like it was like not a thing to do and again going back to age though it might be something in his mind of like being a child and not being allowed to be upstairs or something and when when she did go upstairs and We're seeing all these green walls going up the stairs. And when she was coming down she came down about five or six different flights of stairs. It seemed it seemed to not match the the going upstairs like there. Was this like a sense of like being in purgatory like she was stuck in a pile of endless stairs. Going down and down and down into maybe the the more complex issues in remind because if you notice she was also stuck in thought while she was going downstairs or or again i get the sense of purgatory. That's that's kind of being like. They're almost like you know. I have a different way of units high. Your thing going. The multiple trips haven't down the stairs What happens at the end. But i'm gonna. I'm gonna hold that theory off for just a little bit i'm going to Talk about it a little bit later. Wants to get through the rest. I but i do have. I do have an idea that touches back on that. Okay so i wanted to talk about some of the things that stood out like fire in this film and which i felt was actually refreshing because in this day and age we so prominently use phones in. It's just like a way of life at it. Kills me. And i want to throw my phone in the ocean but we didn't see any phones in this movie right away and when we when we did it was shown in hurt our eyes to see this because of the use of colors so things that weren't Supposed to be in this world or super vibrant colors if you notice. The whole palette of this movie is very neutral and in without color. There's no like all looks like old vintage everything is just. It's faded and everything is a natural colors except for these things that shouldn't be there like when she pulls out her phone. It's vibrant color and it's it's screaming at you and the throughout the movie. She answers and her friends. Keep calling her. Who's lucy lucy. Gala keeps calling her over and over again almost as if to warn her not to go on this trip. Which says it up as a horror film for me at first until we get into it in and it's weird because we're setting. The whole thing is built as a horse. Seen a horror movie but i. I don't know what i'm still trying to make sense of what these vibrant things that stand out are were. There's also a a lot of repetition from the use of the Mugs there's thermoses place thrown for example. The back of his car so Inside his house throughout the on the counters thermoses. At one moment he opens up a door and it's full of thermoses that were vibrant colors of red in and strong white colors and it just stood down. And i again. I don't know these are things that like that as we grow up we see things from our past that flashes back to that moment that was growing up You know like like cookie or a certain thing that you know like a blanket that you grew up with the cnn. Thursday back to. I don't know if that was the use of that of those. The from the theory brings later. Actually i'll bring it up now because it fits really well. Is i believe this whole movie from start to finish happened in the span of vat old man. Janitors afternoon okay. So the reason. I say that is every time. She's moving up and down stairs every time. Her clothes are changing everything right. It's always to fit his idea of what the perfect person is. his idea of. The perfect meeting of his family is however everything alludes to this man being stuck in time you know. How long has it been since he saw that woman. Holy shit will you just put it that. You just blew my mind. And i'm going to tell you why i you just put this whole movie in perspective for me. I believe it does happen over the course of the day and at the end of the day this man dies it's a recounting of his life. Right and it's we're getting lost in his his mind and the reason. I think that this is the way it is is because the very first sequence in this movie is we open up on this red headed girl outside in the beautiful son getting on her phone waiting for this card to pick her up and then we pan over and see this old man. Who's a janitor looking out the window staring at her and this was probably the only part that was that was real before we went into his mind. He's sitting out there getting ready to go to work and he sees this girl on the sidewalk going about her business and he builds this perfect girl inside his head in the perfect time in his life when he was in his twenties and thirties and and thinks about how would be introducing her to his family. Who's probably long deceased. And it's all happening through the day while he's working and cleaning the school as a janitor both yeah or even more depressing and i hate to say it is. He's been thinking about this girl for last forty years. Okay and i say that because when you're when lucy's entering the school at the movie She looks down into the trash candidate. She sees a trash can full of the cup. Yeah completely to the brim. Full of the cups that she just threw in all right. Yeah how many times has this man thought about introducing this woman to his family. There looks down in the win when she finally goes downstairs. Everywhere is pictures of her. Yeah that's right. She says that's a fixture of for the place. Yup the franken The books and stuff were the books that are poetry talking about the entire time her poetry her drawings are everything she is him yes she is him she the knee i think he saw her at one point in time in the past and he may have tried to talk to him he may have been too scared to talk to her and then he just obsessed over what could have happened in his life just like he obsessed over what could have happened with everything else being a physicist bean a poet you know wanna do all these crazy interesting things in his life and yet he dropped out of school and became a janitor. Ya and my question which i just asked is. Why do we have the use of this phone in wire friends keep calling her to seemingly tell her to get out of this situation and if we are going on the off the concept that he is in his head what is our biggest factors that we have nowadays in the world as the goddamn ringing phone. That's in our pocket all the time and i think that this is why that that moment stood out so much for me and why i felt that this i wrote this in my notes that this shouldn't be there. Why is this phone there. Why are these people calling her. Because it's it's glowing him out of his thought process. It's trying to call him a way back into the real world so to speak even though arguably going into your phone as getting out of the real world. But i think it's speaking about that use of use of technology as well. Yeah it's definitely showing that just like the phone like you were saying. The phone was points out of the real world. That phone was pulling him out of his dreamworld rhianna. Maybe the phone represents something. He had to do a work that was taken his mind away. Or you know maybe it was his inner thoughts saying hey enough of this freaking dreamworld dude. Wait the free cup man. You've been dreaming for fifty years dude. He her up. And yeah you're janitor. These phone calls are telling her to get out and even yeah might be voices from like from at the shake shop of this girl telling her get out. You don't have to stay in this time and yet you're telling him to move on. I give me you can move on. You can be something else. You can finally get it. You can finally grab a hold of your life and i think that's what happened at the end. I don't think he went crazy. Which is why again now. This is making sense which is why anytime there in the car. You don't get the sense of moving forward. were stuck. Yeah that's great exactly. We're stuck and also think about the pig. Do you remember the pig from the beginning of the year. Not remember the big. They're eating the pig. Oh my god. Yeah the pig. Oh dear god. The pig in the beginning of the movie was left out. He told a lucy the story of how a pig was left out by his father and died so the headlines on fire right he is the exact same way that pig died alone frozen to death naked. He dies the exact same way that pig. Does i get it. Because there's there's a sequence at the end with the magical pig cartoon finger and what we never see a pig in real life. We just see the ashes of the week. So i'm kind of putting it together as this is that moment. That all happens to us where where it's the process of growing up. We see something words most to something that we shouldn't be seeing as a child but it's also natural at the same time for a child to get these experiences and there's this moment that is happens and oliver our brains where we learn to process accept the fact that maybe death happens or something more natural And and we all grow up but at the same time we remember the fact that we were scared of it as children and so this might have been. That moment happened on the farm. He explained they use this freezing Quite a lot. I think three or four times in the film different people say this and the phrases life can be difficult on a farm and they keep saying that over and over again. Life is difficult on a farm. And i think that this was one of those moments. That may have happened when he was young. That's why he imagines the pig as a cartoon and yet it's just one of those things that's been burned into his mind but he himself has been able to process it because that's what he tells her but her as him. So it's there's a. It's that inner child that stuck in his head. Yeah an-and also explains the most confusing frequent seen in the entire show when they go to that ice cream parlor On the way back at the end of the movie and they stopping at the to fro- Freezer frozen up. whatever. I'm still thinking. This was a horror movie at this point. Yeah yeah me too. I had to watch this movie through the second time. Because at the end of the first time i legitimately thought we watched a movie about being in the in the mind of a serial okay and had the second time is the brilliance of jessie buckley. Though he's from breaking bad is one of the one of the big shows that he became super popular on. And he's just got this this mine thing that spent sends chills up the back of your spine about a serial killer. He's just like like yeah. He's good he does it in just his demeanor. It's mundane attitudes the way he talks very with without Toned it's all very bland even and just the way he pauses in between his words it. Yeah he plays the serial killer. No yeah you're absolutely right His name is jesse plame. Oh clean monds the jesse bucks which is also another actress. Yeah the actress which is also another interesting thing that they're both named jesse yeah. I don't know something director had a little story. No one like both are stars were jesse. Yeah yeah okay go back to the. Let's go back to the shake shack. Because i thought that was kind of so Going to shake shack. I think okay so for one. The two girls are being overly nice in giggling and stuff are the same two girls that the janitor passes in the beginning of the movie that are mean to mow making fun of him and stuff when he passes him right. But i think that that third girl is a reflection of himself from when he was younger like his insecurities and everything. He's trying to hide away right because he says i'm sorry about that. Smell where varnishing shells right okay. Last time i checked you don't varnish your universe shit inside is shop. Dangerous people are gonna die. So i'm thinking that was the excuse that he was given by his father when his father killed the pick like maybe he started smelling it because he said The pig started getting maggots and stuff like that. Maybe it started stinking. He asked his dad what that smell was in this. Data's like oh it's nothing i'm varnishing. But he knew in his mind. It's not varnish varnishing the shells okay that makes sense because that's the only thing that fits that entire scene into anywhere. I feel like this is a mix of a illusion. That's made up in his brain a reflection of that Of these different things that he encountered growing up in high school. Because there's the typical you know high school girls. That are too cool for school. Type thing mean girls. Exactly the mean girls and And then there's the always the ones that you make friends with the ones that are more honest and open. And she's throwing compliments at him. But then i also feel like it's more like us speaking out to any generic local town. Insert the little town here. And it's also like this is the this is the spot to go. This is the thing that creates this little town and makes it so wonderful but also there's the different generations of of kids that would've worked in their and their high school years and moved on and and we're just seeing these different Generations of a people that have might have worked there All in this one scene coming out. Yeah and If you noticed one the reasons. I think that this girl and jake one in the same is that when jake is paying one they don't touch he just throws money down grabs but if you notice their hands the have the same bruises or rash. Something on their hands. And jake does not have a rash on his hand at all. They're in the rest of the movie the only time. His hand changes in fact when it goes older because he goes to switch the music the channel. The song he has old man's hand for in on the real world pleading through exact on the car that was in the car before going into the highest as he gets closer to himself he becomes more like himself and like and then we another fun. Part was that the. I thought it was fun. The janitor is sitting there watching a movie on his lunch. Break inside the classrooms. It's you know he's he's utilizing the public services of the school and in a different way but he's watching this movie about dance routine i. I believe it's robert zemeckis movie. And and it he at the end when they meet when his characters in his mind meet him the turns into this ballet almost that matches this movie that he was watching so his mind kind of leads through into that that scene and they have this whole love scene almost live their whole world and die in in this one ballet saying which i think is kind of beautiful that the way it plays out even the blood is of man after he stabbed him as being the little flags at the askew. But yeah dude. I like up until this point in the movie. Also again the movies okay. Ah literally the entire reason. I wanted you to watch. This movie was the ending. I have never been more impressed by ending to a movie in my entire life. That ending pulled everything together. It made me question literally everything. I just watched. It may tear up and give me goosebumps. A how beautiful the ballet was. Oh my god. Whoever was doing the dancing at the end. The judge gorgeous gorgeous. Their routine was amazing. But if you notice the movie the movie that you brought up earlier old movie old yeah yeah and so. It fits his old aged times stuck in the past man. He can't move and then so then. We go to this. Which i've seen this this play out several times before so i i had to. It's not original. Had to have been a nod to other movies that were playing but even Now thinking just. I've talked to my mind. American horror story the the show season where at the end the the old haggard actress. Who's playing the the the keeper of the freak show. She passes on and dies and as a performer. She she gets to do the one thing she loves and perform in front of all the people she. She admires in one last. Act on her deathbed in. That's playing in her mind is this is this performance. And he gets to do that as well. It builds up to this. And that's how i knew he was dead at this. Point is at this. He's crossed because he's performing oklahoma a play that he loved and singing in front of everybody who was in the movie and and performing for them as they are all in. It's it's not. it's not an old old. It's it's obviously. It's obviously a old which i don't. I'm trying to decipher still what that what that means. Why maybe that our ages a perception. It's it's just. It's just something we we i know. Em if you notice the everywhere in the movie of regarding ages done beautifully right the anytime that any of the actors were Created older it was top of the line up right in until he's dead at at that point in time everybody has bared like this face paint stuff to make him look old. It's just just really bad. It's like a high school rendition of trying to make somebody older right right. Yes and if you listen to the speech that was giving it was also the same speech from a beautiful mind. Yes yeah so it was. It was a nod to that to the movie actor. I don't understand. But that's what also made me think that because the movie itself is about it's a schizophrenic person. Right yep it's about schizophrenic. And how everything in the movie pretty much happens in his mind and win he Nonce to that when he brings up the For delusions part. It looks over at lucy. They have like a a. Hey a wink wink moment. Going on you know just to show just the further show us that this was all in his head in god. It was well. We knew that by this time because this was after he received his nobel peace prize before hebron foggin dancing. Yeah at this point. In time. I figured he was dead. Okay so the first time. I watched through it. I thought he was dead and each one of these people that was in the audience. Was somebody killed. Yeah yeah he's a serial killer. And yeah i think it might be downfall. I think he's a great actor. But maybe jesse plumbing. Of course the name now. I corrected myself on that one. But yeah it's Yeah he's a great serial but also yeah. Maybe that was what they wanted. Maybe they wanted us to. Because there's definitely like this this horror movie aspect feeling to it and it turns out it wasn't i guess unless you you count the horrors that are in our mind and in that case the maybe you can think it was because everyone's once we get really deep north thought. It could be a little scary. I think for everybody. So yeah maybe that was the the decision they were trying to make. Yeah once once it breaks out in song and dance with won't be surprised. It's yeah it's game over. Let's it's definitely worth the watch. The oh man if nothing else in. The movie was worth watching. The ending made the entire film worth it. It was still. I still think was on the best endings. I've seen very long absolutely and so you can you touch on it to the these the speech from a beautiful mind those given by russell crowe and and all these pop culture references there. There was even this one instance where they're in the car and the girl breaks out into this this dialing in everything that is the. We don't know. We need to know dialing i. It's too awful you don. I'm like who. Is she shading into a different character but that that itself was was taken from another pop culture reference of within that time that would have been for for this janitor at his at his age. And so there's just a lot of it's true. I think our world is kind of guided by. We live by pop culture references. Even his bedroom was full of movies and magazines and things from from his his childhood but one of the wall which i thought that was interesting to. Maybe you know. The dad had alzheimer's and dementia. I wonder if he himself was the one falling to dementia. And that's why there needed to be labels on everything throughout the house. Because that was his house is his mind and he's navigating the the complexities of it in going into these different rooms but having them labelled helped him find it in his mind. Maybe that that is why we're getting all these random jump cuts that seemingly push us around at different times in different and decade everything very confusing. Yeah yeah but one of the things that he did he did touch on that. I i liked and there was also another comparison again through use of repetition inside. This movie was at the beginning. They talked about A films you know the the train. Oh if the train was going you could just jump off the train no You can't just jump off a train because in the real world if you jump off a train you die. And he says well. Maybe i'm just being fed lies from movies and in and it's true in in a sense because that's the essence of hollywood is is building. These lies to tell a story but also it shapes perspective. And i think that was the kind of important note that he had and also relayed throughout the movie through those use of repetitious Devices that that we form our perspectives based off of the different media that we bring in there in the things that we see in expose ourselves to which kind of makes it a little bit. Scary nowadays is that we have so much niche media. Because if you wanna be like you know Cunanan or something and go really right wing you can think the world is flat and you can find as much medias you want to support the fact that they world is flat or or that trump is a superior being brought here by the devil or something you know. There's there's there's plenty of evidence online to support all those things but then we have this this This moment where they're again. They're talking about farm animals and how how farm animals are without conscious thought and that humans are the only ones that have evolved to find this this ability to know who we are but Our our brains are filled with this perspective and filled with lies from the things that we consume so she kind of she kind of hints that we are actually just like animals that we haven't found are conscious thoughts. We haven't found herself conscious and she even offers the the the the. I see it as a scapegoat that maybe hope the only thing that humans have evolved to hold onto and not so much conscious thought but but she goes back to say like. We're basically just like the animals like the her argument was because of the things we choose to consume in in media and education. Wise were were were just as good as animals. And we don't yeah. And i think that's very powerful especially in today's day and age where a lot of people believe you know. Basically whatever's put in front of him look for opposing thoughts. They just look for more media that supports their thought. Exactly so i think when a movie points this out and tries to bring attention to it. I really appreciate that personally. Yeah yeah so i. I don't know if i had to sum up this movie it was. It was awkward and uncomfortable but veto a exhausting exhausting. Yes and if you out there know who lucy was and how she fits in there and why she keeps calling then. Please let us know. Because i'm still trying to trying to grasp on that one. That's one of my questions. That i felt wasn't answered in this session today. I i'm trying to figure out. Who is lucy satisfying result. I i have an idea about that. Okay if you notice every time her name change every time the person callings name was the name of her. You know so the first time it was lucie that was calling right. Her name's lucy. Then her name would change. The parents would call her different things. Yeah right and then whatever her calling her then you would look down and win the next time. She looked at her phone. She had a bunch of miss calls from other people. You positive that you noticed all the other calls. Were from what her parents were calling her. That's right yeah so it was. Lucy amy ames. I believe agnes might have been one of the other names I was writing them down as they were calling different names than i was it was. It was like what's going on here. Why is her name. Changing aims in the they are still serial killer about. I'm like this is a horror movies chopper head off. He's calling it a degrading into like what he wants her to be. You know but that's exactly what he's doing is he's he's turning into one. He wants to be a perfect woman. Yeah literally change her. Your wasn't a serial killer. China force her to change she literally physically change inner in his mind. Okay last question why We have a scene where she goes to show the parents her artwork which is really beautiful and i think it speaks to the movie industry again as well as like the the effort you have to go to build a scene and then we see all this use of negative space and how it creates an emotion for us to feel oh and then there was also the argument of with her. The father of i need to feel like somebody is in this picture so that i can experience the emotion through them and the storytelling and she's like well. Maybe you can just imagine that you yourself are standing here and this is through your perspective and that this thing that i've created for you to look at is the thing i want you to experience which goes back to this movie itself. Were supposed to experience it as us from our perspective and not from her perspective as her being in the movie is what the doctors telling us but then she looks down at the mother's foot and it's like it's like rotten and what do you think that is this. An indication that she herself has is realizing that she is not real or So the paintings that She showed were actually real paintings done by an artist back in eighteen forty seven to nineteen nineteen by ralph albert blacklock sherifi buttered that. He was an american painter. Who painted landscapes related to the Totalism tuna liz. Yeah totalism movement and So it's definit- definitely for sure all those places he painted. There's now a walmart there. Oh absolutely sad to think about that show absolutely but i think that this time that the father was talking bad about her painting. This was the only time that the father wasn't supportive. In whatever job she was doing right this is the time. Like i don't understand it like why are you. Why are you doing this right. I think that's because Jake had such a negative response may be with trying to paint because when you go down into the basement. He has those paintings that she showed off his. Yeah oh and then so okay. So is this why he doesn't wanna go in the basement. These are the things that he has tried to forget and shove into a little corner inside of his brain. It's those things that we don't want to remember about our lives. That's why the the aso scary to go into. it's his it's real life you know Down the washing machine had his janet. Close yeah right you know down. There balked behind the door. That's where the pictures of lucy were. That's where his other paintings were. That's where his books and his physics books in his philosophy books and his poetry in everything was stuffed so like i think that in his younger age maybe he was or stay down there by his parents maybe who has just spent all his time down there because his parents do that a few times by saying he spends all his time down there or Something along those. yeah yeah. that's that's interesting. okay. I think Yeah def different answered. Another answered question for me was the I i didn't think know if they're using this door to the basement to sell it as a horror movie or had a stronger. Now that we're kind of talking it. Over i i feel like we're we're hitting those those corners a little bit more so yeah definitely a good movie. I think it definitely deserves watching it. Multiple times to understand and decipher the various meanings. That that happened there which is perfectly okay to be different from our own. Because that is what they're saying is the beauty of this is that it's it's experience for the individual to have not for us to consume as a whole in and spit out pop culture and live by this. Were were supposed to have an individual moment to ourselves in really find out what this means to us. Yeah absolutely and if you guys have any if you agree with us if you disagree with us let us know if you guys have any other Suggestions or theories or alternate theories. Like i would love to hear other people's ideas on this everything i've looked up And how i think about. It is one way but i would love to hear what everybody else has to think. Yeah yeah indefinitely all the different things that we may have missed as well. I'm sure there's there's there's again this movie we missed a lot but It's it's it's just how it is we. We have to focus some time to to speak about the more obvious things and build a foundation for this. This wonderful film that we watched. And hopefully we've uncovered it for you to watch and and experience as well. Check it out all right so going onto more pressing concerns for our listeners. Disney plus is going to be increasing their subscription prices again. This month come on. it's not yet. This is bound to be expected though all the different streaming devices the more content. They put out the more expensive. It's going to get. I mean look at net flicks. Netflix has gone up from what seven dollars when they first came out. Two now. fifteen dollars and Yeah so disney. Here's the thing. I i really don't like though about disney. Plus i feel like i was kind of like stabbed in the heart with him because i was really excited to see all the disney stuff be released especially the older things and when they came out with with the announcement that they were gonna start releasing their movies on disney plus wasn't with that that that specification that it's going to be through another service you have to go get the disney plus subscription and then you have to get another subscription just to watch the movies that are coming out and i felt like i'll you know like why did you trick me into getting disney plus when i'm just going to have to get another subscription to watch the movies that are coming out like it's so dishonest. Let me yes. Only explain this feature for those of you. Who haven't heard about it before so disney plus is a subscription service that you can get for nine dollars a month now and they have an optional Additional fee that you can pay for twenty nine ninety nine per movie that they're releasing now to the general public so like gum Milan for instance. When that came out and was released. You could either go to the theater and pay you know ten or fifteen dollars. No actually you couldn't at that time because of covid theater but the only way to watch it was to basically buy it from disney plus now after twenty nine ninety nine fee. It's unlocked for the length of time. You have the subscription okay. So if you cancel your subscription you come back. I don't know if you get the movie back but you definitely can't watch it. Probably subscription bats. That's the evolution of these things before it was like apple. You could download the movie and you own. It's yours but now you have to subscribe and continually do it to watch the movies. And it's a bunch of stuff so with going to that disney plus is now gonna be or disney announced that Black widow basically all their future Content is gonna be coming out on disney plus at the same time as theaters. I i don't know how. I feel about this Box office wise. People think milan was a failure. Because they'll only made seventy million dollars to two hundred million dollar budget however however the massive amount of money disney plus may during that time for people that bought the movie to download it hundred and ninety three percent money increased during that time hundred ninety three percent. Then basically means as mayor free buddy. Exactly that means that that pretty much shows that the vast majority of people who have at disney plus subscription bought lawn. Yeah okay so. They made jewelry rastogi more money because they cut out the theaters right in. And that's another thing that we're not going to see go away. I think they're studios are starting to see that they can make money on their own without a distributor so We're we're going to start seeing releases straight I believe it's called home streaming releases or straight to home release and yeah which also kind of tastes magical way of going to the movies. Because it's like i'm paying all this money for movie theater ticket when i know it's sitting right at home i didn't have to go anywhere but going is nice too and i guess it's considerate for the people that are still concerned about you. Know the world and the way it is. Yeah cova and everything. Yeah but i feel like it also takes a little bit of the magic away so it's one of those things that yes the industry is going to survive if the theater's go down however the lower the smart people aren't gonna have as good as a physician back in the Early forties. there was a mass thing were only studios held control the film industry in and rescue worked with the studio or the studio owned your project. If you couldn't make it wasn't being released he could not get released. How long are we going to go down this route before. We're right back at the studio system. Where the government's going to have to step in and say. Hey look you guys can't control who gets to see what literally the studio system is the streaming system but then right. The only smoothies that were played at feeders were movies. That studio who owned that theater plate does that. Sound like something. That's happening right now. The only movies being played on disney plus our movies at disney is making its modernizing laws and personnel. Leave it right to your door. You don't have to do anything to pay that monthly fee. It's a monopoly man. And now that they passed the law in california saying that the gig workers have to be Have to be employees of the companies. How long until we're back at a studio system where you're paying grip twelve dollars an hour for eighteen hour shift. you know. Barely minimum wage to do what dude like how hung until we're back at their five years. Ten years tyler. Perry studios was already doing during covid locking all their employees down to where they can't see their family friends. Yeah at all the housing while you're working on the movie. Last time i checked. That's like not kumon locked up dude locked up to make movies do this. How do you think that movie theater system is going to become extinct as that is just gonna be another mervyn's someday the movie theater system before we know it is gonna be the drive in theaters again. Yeah i'm actually happy that that has kind of made a comeback and as well. It's one movie. Come on and throw the kids in the trunk. Great you know they all have to. You don't have to pay for it. You don't know you let him out of the trunk and you kind of get to live with a little bit of a serial murderer life second and you get to go over the speed bumps a little bit faster when they're in the. It's all good fun count. Yeah exactly so no. I think it's it's and we're even seeing that now. I think it was like a regal that has declared bankruptcy. I don't actually don't have any movie theaters in my city anymore. Because they've all closed down there all regals and on bye-bye it's the awful. Maybe they'll become gyms or something in the future knows i. It's just before we know at the theater system is gonna go the way of the driving system and the problem that we're gonna have in. The future is a problem that we had in the past and government's going to have to step in and stop a monopoly from owning an entire industry right but we can't let can't argue that. The movie theaters themselves were built on eggshells. Because i mean we are going and paying you know twenty thirty bucks for a bag of popcorn and ten ten bucks for a soda. The prices were ridiculous already so we staples know how much the studios were taken to even allow the theaters to show their films. It's everything saying dude. It's just saying they had to charge an arm and leg for drinks because they just they didn't make any money off the ticket right literally nothing. Yeah everything went to the studios or went to their upkeep of the systems and the person at the top makes all the money. Yeah so it just with them announcing that black widow is also coming to streaming services than pretty much all the mcu as well as the same time. Theaters it just. It puts a dark shadow over the future of the industry. But that's not the only news. I wanted to bring up a network on a bad note. No of course. Not i got in on a lovely creative note art so as a kid when you're watching shows at like two o'clock in the morning right. What was always on infamous. Yeah infomercials about everything and promotions about a pillow or a chop matic or something. Well rope which has fifty million current subscribers by was creating a creative How did they put it a creative showcase for products to be like basically they're going to be creek shows for products that are creative right a fancy super fancy infomercials home shopping network on roku. Do they're going to make the first remain home shopping network frigging genius dude like they can just buy it from the tv. How many people would just sit at home. Watch this imblack. y'all want that yoho. That sounds good order. Just pick up. Come nearer metal and hit by an it's automatically to amazon account or whatever and just ships out and that's we're going to spend so much money doing that. I i hate to say it but their best customers are going to be my grandma if she figures out how to use the remote and my god she's going to spend so much money on this on roku not even funny because every Regular four k tv for like three or four hundred bucks at you can get up. The store has roku built in the smart app. That actually works right because android. Smart tv doesn't actually work that well on a lower end models you have to have a really processor to actually make it work so a lot of the roku one works wonderful. So since that's already put into everybody's tv. Now they're coming up with a home shopping network. Oh my god roku is about to make bang i. I'll tell you. I can't wait for hbo to come out with the The late night infomercials all the adult toys and stuff that you could buy with. Just one click all. The sales are going to go through the roof. Now that we That you don't even have to get on your phone to look up those type of things to buy anymore. You just click it with your remote in. Oh yeah even. I could imagine the kids are going to try to watch it through fuzzy screen at two o'clock in the morning just just like like like well we we better and i drove no corner on that one. I'm just saying. I spent many a night looking into the foggy screen nights for five boob. Yeah we just for sometime and it was always a letdown. Because it was softcore so it's always a letdown. Come on man anyways so we're going to go ahead and wrap it up from there. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of uncovered cinema. I think it was a good one. We there was a lot to unpack. And it's going to be a little bit longer because of it but hopefully the i liked this new format and we hope you like to let us know your comments or things we might have missed and and you can check us at uncovered cinema at all the social handles that you need fine and were there and we'll be back next week yet. Thank you guys so much for joining us and we will see you next time gay.

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# 100 - Mid90s / Wild Rose / Kids

Truth and Movies: A Little White Lies Podcast

41:12 min | 2 years ago

# 100 - Mid90s / Wild Rose / Kids

"This week on truth and movies, Jona hill. Go super rod for is their toil debut the coming of age skated around the mid ninety s. Do you understand me? Jesse Berkeley is heading to Nashville by way of glass. Go in the country music, crowd-pleaser wild rose something. There's no shortage of folk consensual fulfil club is back to the mid nineties once again for Larry Clark's controversial kits that you base look struggle. Yeah. Well, it's just been a bad day. Well, coming up in truth and movies. A little white lies podcast. Hello, there podcast listeners can truth and movies, the one hundred edition of truth in movies. I'm sure we can get some by week noises and providing sound effects this week. We have David Jenkins. Hey, I'm Beth Webb. Hi, welcome. Both. How are we feeling old? Temples? It's an existential crisis episode. Feel who sends us a silver spoon. Yes. The Queen and podcasts, David Beth. You can join us as well. But a quick quiz all the way back in April twenty seventeen we had the first episode of truth in movies. Do you have any idea what the films, we cut it were? I think do remember actually I think I remember one of them. And it was God is the galaxy part two volume to days in fulfilled club did American graffiti so with the Rosser to other new releases that week. A sequel in a franchise starring VIN diesel truck. Oh, I fear which one eight eight hundred to the furious. And then the other view that week was a British debut. Starring. Florence pee. Welcome Beth getting stealing the final point. Title. Fell short for MacBeth web. That's exactly it. From now. Anyway, that's the past. Let's look the presence or actually let's look in the mid nineties. We're gonna have a midlife crisis by revisiting coming of age movies from the nineties or set in the nineties this week, we have mid nineties and kids, let's krecko. Jona hell makes his dark toil debut with this coming of age drama set. Squarely in the middle of the nineteen nineties time of transition both for youth culture and for thirteen year old protagonist Stevie who's upgrading from a super Nintendo to a PlayStation and exchanging Renan's stimpy for rap the greatest change comes. When Stevie disco is a local gang of skaters their influence on the young lad proves to be considerable. But it's not all healthy. At least not in. The is was mom. I was getting. What is your name? What is your name? Jesus. Listen to me, you do not give my son alco, man. Man may not get my son drugs. Do you understand me better be cool, or whatever your name is stay away from my son? He's not like you Catherine Watson, they're being very frustrated with the nineties youth. David should we herald the coming of Jonah hill director? Going straight for the jugular there. I'm going to say the jury's probably out on this. Personally. I thought this was going gonna go down in the annals of great debut features. I generally have issues with actors who direct identify why they just always seemed to the films always into earth me in some respect to the other. And this one for me felt like a very very like if you just happen to be living in a bubble and not know who on earth journey hill was I think you could watch this film, and guess that he was probably a an active by day directed by night. The strength of the film. For me. That was a bit of a weakness. I mean firstly I guess how does vanity project element to it? That was always very president felt very kind of. It's a painfully earnest film. I. I don't necessarily mean that in like as of harsh criticism of it. It's Sean sixteen mill. So it has this kind of grainy feel to it. I I was watching the film trying to work out. Why that decision was made is shot in kademi ratio, which is square boxy? Look again like to see LA, and this kind of quite cramped frame is it's kind of an aesthetic choice. But I'm of lost as to what the reasoning behind. It was really it's interesting here that hill in writing the film. He's reference kids, which we're going to be talking about later England rat catcher, the sandlot there's a scene on in which sunny comes home after having been practicing skateboarding outside on his like kids cowabunga skateboard like pink. Neom skateboard, and he comes inside and Catherine Woodson's watching goodfellas on the TV and. And I think this is a film that wears its references. Only sleeve, I think, and there's definitely I kind of Henry hill vibe to sunny as he's kind of completely smitten by this kind of subculture that means he's going to need to own my split away from his family and take a kind of more independent role in his life. And it's almost like moving away from one family joining another family and in the same way that Henry hill in goodfellas. It's kind of almost like psychotically enthrall to the kind of gangsta lifestyle sunny to is this kind of instantaneously sees it and is drawn over to. And this kind of feeling that's if him he's not coming from a happy home that I think that's where he's coming from an incredibly lonely households. They're very close in the houses, very small, and they live in very close proximity, but cash remotest as his mom, she's incredibly lately to a chain restaurant for Lucas hedges is eighteenth. Day, and she's over sharing about her love life, and she's talking to them as if she would talk to somebody her own age, which obviously sounds like she doesn't have anyone else. Ready to talk to and then leakers hedges, Ian, this is my favorite because hedges row. I think he's done a lot. I think he's incredible assist. Thickly built very lonely. Very angry. Young man belly says a word, I think for the. James Dean vibe, he's got the Eminem cleaned of get up with the chain and the shape head. He's very fistful it, but also they have a big showdown him and Stevie at the very of high of the film, and and Stevie of really lays into eternity friends. You don't have anybody. And that's what brings the big climate fight between the two of them. And you think yeah, there's no connection within this house necessarily. And so you can't really blame him for trying to seek solace in this this on two brothers my issue. The film is I thought with the family stuff with the N and with his mother the film goes from him hanging out with all his skates accrue. And then you get these scenes where he's returning home and doing little funny things like because even smoking he'll like pull mouthwashes mouth and cover himself. I think it was something kind is. Dem. But I almost thought you could take all the scenes with those characters out the family life, and it wouldn't have necessarily been a different film like for me that just wasn't enough of it to make it worthwhile. This is my main quantum with the film is because it say lacking narrative, I would really like to see them push because hedges and Catherine Watson that to you. Incredible at is in their own, right. But it's very prolific at the moment. And the fact that they didn't utilize them quite in the way, I'd hoped I would have liked to see more of a balance between the family strands. And then what he does with his friends. I mean, you can only speculate. Everything's this. But like the film is eighty five minutes, it just feels to me that there was maybe some more stuff in there that was out and decisions were made to have it in this slightly curtailed run time. Because because I think when you haven't got like a very strong three AC narrative is harder to keep the interest, retain, the interest even over ninety minutes. I think so. Yeah. I think the expensive that may be we've lost some of the I mean, there are lots of questions that going on said the film ends quite suddenly it's very much kind of slice of time rather than as the title infers just a moment in time rather than a developed story or a person reaching guy from one point in life, other even Stevie in the end doesn't necessarily apart from this big change that cousin the beginning of the film. He died necessarily feel it that he's kind of come through somewhere. I don't know it felt really slight for me. But if the family life may seem peripheral to the film, therefore, the focus is more on this community skates. His he falls into young Stevie. This is the third film in more feels like the last few months, we had skate kitchen minding the gap, which also looked to these young communities. Skaters banding together Beth how does this play as the Johnny come lately the say we have to consider that? This is the UK ready, this this film's been out. In the US for. I can't remember the US ready state was but it was embedded in Las yet quite significantly. It's that it's bonded together by skateboarding. And there are some moments. It's been done to death. But I am an absolute sucker for a static shore of a group of boys meandering down a highway to beautiful music that gets me every single time. And that is the film. It's best here. I think it's the most assured if the street, I mean, gee mentioned it's vanity project. And I think that's given with any. I mean, we've seen a star is born Bradley perhaps eating loves himself. But it doesn't take away from the power of the film. Very quickly. Actually a film coming in a couple of weeks book smart. To live via wild that. The me little teaser. But that is an exception. I think that is a great movie directed by an actor. What about Mr. Clint Eastwood one of your phase? But we should say stars Joan hill sister pin clint's director who used to act. But yeah, I think this is various should view. This is somebody who's had an acting career for fifteen years at this stage. If you wanna fill out, you know, he's Tarantino. He's what was Scorsese. He's what with the Coen brothers. So you can tell he's kind of absorb things on the way. He's couldn't favors we need to Sandra, Kim, right? But he's he's gorgeous score from trim Resonator and Atticus Ross, which is very much the air. I like that his voice is prominent in this. You can hear it in the script in some of them more kind of colloquial moments between the boys the humor feels very relevant to journey hill. And I think that confidence kind of exudes, and that's what makes it. I'd still like to see another film from him to kind of determine if he is a good filmmaker. But as a debut, I think this is very short. The soundtrack because that's maybe the thing that the most. The school or the pop music sound dry. Just felt that correct me if I'm wrong here. But the film felt pretty much wool wool like this belly a sequence that goes without some kind of music in the background, and that's a mixture of ninety s pop music. That's just played over the top of very sequences. And then the school. I mean, it's hard to determine what was the school remote was pop music MTV t the school. The scores ounce have been listened to separate from the film. It's only four tracks long and Trent routes would compose it before or after gigs on a nice nails tall. And it really is only maybe fifty minutes of music. So they explain why you didn't feel it was there sometimes, but it's just for fun. Seems a bit weird to me that you got like this very maybe so of self-consciously small low budget in the film where clearly millions were spent on music rights because I mean, there's so much music in it like every single scene has some kind of light time relevant banger in the back. More season. They're very bizarre them Morrissey. He's just. Long-stay winding down the way to Morrissey. Like just in general. I think that that type of film making where econ rely on the images, and you can't rely on the dialogue. And there's always a feeling that it's kind of overloading the scenes there were so many things I was watching, and I was just like this is intended as a quiet moment between two of the characters, and it would it would feel like one. If there wasn't some kind of like drone or some beats in the background. You know, I was watching the film really really wishing it would just embrace the the quiet for a little bit and almost embraces sense of modesty. But it never did. Ryan till the end it was just very like full on music music music, for me, a textbook example of like know, how to not use music. Pushing my buttons when it comes to like, you know, pop music in films being interesting experiment. You should Recode it without the sound. Joel is really funny. I was actually thinking let's facts Steven Soderbergh and get him as little experiments. Re-cut without the music. I'll be really interested to see that. Because I think it would be a very different and possibly more interesting film. There's more focused on light the detail in the film, rather than trying to create an atmosphere is the detail there. That's why I kind of disagree. I think it remind two sizes because this is partly how the film sets off on quite romantic for is Stevie breaking into ins ream despite being told explicitly and with ins fists, not go in his room. And so you've seen as he leaves cedars into the room. And it's this shrine to the era, you can tell Jana hose just kind of lovingly crafted, and he's them mocking down which music. He needs to listen to you on these alphabetized. I can't even have that many discs that stage. CD's types of writing them down ordering this. This. Shelf of many that would have been an amazing five styles from Jenkin. It sets often this foot of really idolizing, we music of the time and then for that to be into the film as a kind of ripple effect from that one scene. I think is is really sweet let's finish up mid nineties with some schools. David. This is in anticipation enjoyments in retrospect for me, I probably gonna give it to across the board. They felt a little bit of eternal for me like a small indie skate film. And there was never really anyone from. I think it was at Toronto originally wasn't it. No one really came out to bat for in a way that was I felt was kind of meaningful so excited level never really arrived for me and ended up being film, which sadly confirmed my worst phase. So the numbers to choose to across the board. It was four and I really liked with Jana hills. Become like, I think he's going from Africa. Owl alumnus to, you know, working with these big directors. And now he finds himself haven't good behind the camera in and I'm for that four again, I really liked how he just took instant ship of this and what David vanity project? I think what to the strength of the folk. And then three I think the impact has does a little bit. But as I say I'd like to see a second film from him. Just to see what his filmmaking is actually all about outside of this kind of romantic notion of a time that he was growing up in everything we're much breath. We're over the hill now home to Jessie, Buckley, and wild rose. Jessie, Buckley stars has rose. Lynn, a Glaswegian single mom who has aspirations of becoming a country music singer. She's undeniably talented, but the stint in prison puts her dreams of making it to national in jeopardy is it time for rose to face facts. In terms with the responsibilities facing home for the second time this week. We have a mum having her say this time. It's the one Julie Walters. Hula these cleaning. I very good. Thinking Frankin was thinkin just go don't you worry? We knew wasn't. He just thinking about your kids. I'm going to Nashville. Manger tied. Disney off you're going through security. I in the moron going up three. I'm gonna get my job back, and I'm gonna walk for that. There's nothing for me here. See there can be holding my craft the community given night. Do you think of sacrifice than not for fantasy? Have. We all know second scientist if you want good Roseline good, listen. I don't care. What you do do something? And I'm gonna use nobody watching tally with Jesse Berkeley. I live someone's doing infra graphic or video essay or something putting together all of the British accents. Julie Walters is done over the years. I think she's it every single one. Now, you must have done to the point where I don't actually know where she's from. Sheva? No, she's from. Bending is a long way way. So bath, you call this a real foot stumper in your view little white lies tells us more about wild rose. Of course. So yes, Jessie, Buckley plays rose. Lynn who we join fresh out of a twelve month stint in prison. She returns home to Hamam people and her children was eight and one's five if memory serves, but she's always dreamed of the stage in Nashville, and the film kind of exposed this battle between her trying to become a good mom and kava path for a home where she belongs. I guess all pursuing her dreams to Nashville and she says in her craft and it worked for you. It seems. Oh my goodness. Yes. So on the big advocate for Jesse Berkeley. I loved her beast. Choose the best thing in that not much because I don't rate Johnny Flynn is an actor. But she was the best thing in that. And so I was really excited to see this put off by the initial exit look kinda cheesy. But there's this great. I think it's her debut feature script from co Taylor. He's written the story about this. This mother I was a little bit skeptical because there's a film coming out next month, folks, which kind of expose a similar sort of battle. Where it seems that woman can't seem to have a fantastic career. And be a fantastic mother at the same time. It always has to be one of the other vice versa, and in this they managed to reach a sort of compromise, which is good. But yes, it's about her kind of finding her footing now that she's out of prison, and it's just beautifully performed. We've got Jessie Buckley in the central role bookended by these wonderful wonderfully written performances from GD Wolters, and Sophie or Caen do Hugh plays. A woman a wealthy woman who Jessie Buckley becomes Davey woman for season. She's cool. She recognizes her talents and kind of takes her on a mission to try and get her to Nashville raised in hasn't Hoda. She's got children. So she's kind of the voice of hope and. GD would carry to is the voice of reason of how are her talents? People only seen beast or maybe smooth Jesse Berkeley's tally work might not realize that she trained as a musical theater actor so has pipes right? And then she's got the pipes. I am I review I mentioned she's got this kind of mythical strength to head. It comes out and she's performing there's is beautiful glass gay venue as she goes to perform. And when she's up there. She's not lodge in any sense of a wedge. She's quite an average size, whoever that means, but she kind of rose it's like a thunder that rose through when she gets on stage, and when she stomping and when she's grabbing the microphone it's really hypnotic to see David this. I must admit country music, not mind. No my back. Is it your back to this convince you? Yeah. Used to double. Back in the day echo. Beth just said about Jessie Buckley, and being a phenomenon I think like you watch films with music or performance elements, and you have these big list actors who are kind of mouthing along to someone else. Singing. And you know, it's the old of singing in the rain thing. And you can never not see it. You always know when someone is actually doing it. When is actually there's actually a connection between the sound and that you'll person and to see like Jessie Buckley, actually singing in this film. It just puts a lot of other similar types of performances in the shade. I think because like to see actually singing knowing as you're watching that she actually has that talent it just makes it so much easier to invest in in his story. So that for me was one of the film's big strings. She has everything I think 'cause she can do the singing. Ng and that side of things that you know, this kind of a result of her background in performance. And but she I think she's also a phenomenal actor. I mean, even in that little clip that we played before the way that she's kind of talks over Julie Walters is such a simple thing that you take for granted. It's like it feels like a real skill being intuitive trying to make a scene sound real. And this being signed to carry his head. You know, I think I suspect I hope that she's just like I hope that she doesn't go into X medicine. As usually is the path of these kind of is is like the pot of soup heroin samba, and we never really hate for them. Again. I I mean, you know, she would be someone who I would be of behind were she in some big Oscar film, but other than that, I think high-performance phenomenal. But like, I think the story sometimes a little bit all over the place, doesn't it how I think the films interesting when we're in Glasgow. And there are these two quite lengthy sections where roseland leaves Glasgow on a little kind of two voyages of discovery does find out whether this the feasability of her dreams and that both really bizarre in random, and I never thought that interesting really 'cause like having her not reacting with the other actors and just like looking around and of gazing and being quite happy in a way. It was not as interesting as the more for stuff at the beginning is spoiler to say who she goes to me. In Nick, fury comments. Hey, I'm I was just watching this going what? She she references like her heroes being whispering. Bob, Harris of old grey whistle test and BBC radio. He's probably done shifts on every channel. And she has this kind of weird obsession of like is my dream to meet whispering. I'm watching the film going. Oh my God. Police say this is the Phil. Janney to meet whispering bulbs. And I think that's what saves those particular moments this, especially cheesy point in the film, wet she's gonna tatty, and she's honest to something like, oh why country and she says I'm not going to do the accent. It's three chords in the truth. And she points tattoo that raises three the truth. And if anybody else said that I'd thrown up, but because you see Buckley is so sincere and committed to this performance. And this woman's love for music and powers, then you've just get swept up in with it boils down to the emotional confrontations on the performances, which light this is Tom hop directing who Jesse the collaborated with on Warren piece. I think is big on heavy work. I think is his CV Germany, but he's very good at documenting the performances. There's one original song in the film. That's written by Mary Steenburgen, which. Among other things we'll say half of one of the best Hollywood couples of time. Hey, K, Ted Danson and Mary Steenburgen. But yeah, there's this gorgeous performance piece that's really beautifully captured by Tom hawk Perrin. If you don't cry them. What's the matter with you, basically? It goes in quite sweet way is with three calls in the truth. This kind of like Besigye of country music being primal, simple, emotional direct. Whereas I think this film could have may be taken a bit more of that advice just been a bit more focused people leases you, but then it somehow brings you back in and I think is down to Jessie Buckley, I mean, it's one for the for the annals of like a really great performance in quite not perfect. Phil Thompson in the children's at chestnut back that that's another one. That makes me think if they like for that one. It was more. Like, I admire you're taking the seriously because because I sure as how con- whereas this one is like, yeah. You taking seriously? So I'm gonna give you the benefit of out and dive in as well, Beth what scores. Give. Dissipation purely of her performance in beast. Like it was that good performance. The I was right. Well, you do next Akon? Wait, see what your next for for enjoyment? Describe my view, I think human Baraga tablet, just like a fizzing stream of edgy that just didn't stop and then four again yet foot-stomping as the way tonight, especially the final scenes of so uplifting, and sweet and sincere. Beautiful performances. I haven't seen genie Wolters and say fee Canadian do something this good in a while. So I'm glad they've had some interesting the even so. Yeah. Across the board. Similar anticipation per Biko for fours. Well, because I I also love based we send that you didn't like Johnny flare. No you do. I like, Johnny Flynn. We can talk about that later. And probably threes finally too. It's like I definitely thought the greatness of the performance was keeping me that. But there were lots of little nagging things throughout that was that was drawing me back a bit. I seen a similar films before should we say? Okay. Well, that was wild rose in cinemas this week up next week film clip, which is taking us back the mid nineties fa- kits. Controversial released back in nineteen five this debut from Petach for Larry Clark follows largely street cast on some bull across Manhattan as they overindulge in drink drugs and protected sex. The screenplay was written by Hani Corinne, he'll go on strike them. Oh spring break. Among others launch the careers of Rosario, Dawson, and alternative it. Go khloe seventy his clip in wish like cabdriver takes a shine to seventies character, Jenny. I was wondering. Could be venue system. Maybe kill you up or something. Thanks, okay. Okay. Game because you don't look, okay. Let it pretty young lady. That you face looks trouble. It's just been a bad day. Would I be prying by what wrong? Would I be prying? Everything's wrong. Everything. Sunny spiel shining. That beautiful day. Somethings are okay, right. Guess break up with your boyfriend. Are you in trouble with the law? Am I getting close? That's better. Prom when you smile glam ago. Clip from kids. They're so which way we go in the who or offspring the kids. All right around. They David less. Read some listener comments. This is Ben from Devon. Hi, guys. Congrats on one hundred costs. Reclad you talking about kids. I saw as a thirteen year old. My dramatic force that letters. I'm just thinking it's shocking, and it had a profound effect on me. I'd never seen anything hedonistic or nihilistic onscreen. It was equal parts of pulled fascinated have to revisit to see if it still has. But it's just shock. Can't wait to hear thoughts, perhaps Gummer could be a future film club. When the beach is reviewed another hard films. Forget on related you from there with the story of how many Korean he wrote kids when he was eighteen getting banned from Letterman as the titular host core trying to steal from Meryl Streep's handbag. This was the height of his addiction issues, regardless. He's an interesting guy who seems found his way. I mean, that's one way. This is a message from BJ Summa's. Remember a gang of fifteen euro teenagers walking out of the latest rounded by shocked and disturbed adults. Except for the HIV. We saw selves shrugged and search for a sneaky place to smoke a bowl. What she now is an dot dot dot. Yikes. Tastic closed circuits clocks. Wait one always felt his holding up to youth. Stick was rather tempered by the sense that he gets off voyeur same Principato goofy. But I will say this collaborators tend to shine each Ed Lachman shooting Ken pug and last one David fakest. The film is still very truthfully display of the internal if being a teenager, while the specific expression of the teenage angst portrayed in the film is exploitative outdated. Does not compromise the honesty with which portrays a teens psyche. I love the fact that we have to people. Hey, watching the film in their early teen years. Yeah. Join that game. I mean, I saw in ninety five so I was like fourteen and did you see your life reflected on screen? Yes. No. But my desire to see the film was purely the result of the moral panic of sprung up around it. It's hard to think. Now. Of a film that would cause a similar kind of ruckus. I mean when we talk about like problematic films now with social media films go under the microscope, and they stay there for a very long time. Whereas I think film like kids, it's a really banal thing to say, but it's hard to know what film like that would have been like had just been this kind of churning contra conversation, I think so provocative. You know, it's hot so second guess, whether it still has the power to shock like does for me a law. So rewatching it yesterday. I was a bit. Like am I short during I remembering being shocked? Oh has this kind of worn off for me? Now is is all just very performance. And is it transgressive in a way that of the formative will not since it was a very very weird one to rewatch Matthew say you was shocked. I was for the first time a few years ago. I went to it hominy clean exhibition in London and wanted to find out more about him. And what should that was absolutely devastated watching it? And then revisited for this podcast today. And it's just such an uncomfortable experience. It's bookended by two very upsetting depictions of statutory rape. I think it's worth actually came back to mid nineties, which we didn't cover quite a scene that's been considered by today's standards a little bit controversial. Stevie is taken away during a house party by Otago, the age of hurries isn't quite nine, but she takes away and attracted to him because she says that he's the age before men tend to be seen which I think is Jona hill tipping the hat to this England. Actually, he says that that scene. Yes. Looks at problematically. It say one of the sleaziest Navan ever. Yes. So it's incredibly uncomfortable. It begins with one of the Curtiss telly. I think his name is it's west Newton as well. People were so convinced that this was a documentary. He had to move to London because people found the skate show where he what China and harass him to the point where we had to move away. But it begins with him seducing, a very young girl in a very obvious way. And then ends with another case of date rape, essentially. So it's very tough watching. I think is is worth noting from the off if you've seen mid-nineties upset by that do not watch kids dome. And it's ridiculous. And it doesn't seem to be any sense of consequence. It's a very harsh talev of being young and being poor in New York. It is beautifully shot. I will say it's very sensory or those. Sometimes it's not the best thing you can basically over smell, the musk of the boys is as it's very hot in there kind of rolling around on a bed together and it's over sweaty. But yeah, just a really uncomfortable film to. One of the things I got from every war. She was so hominy Korean wrote this famous. He writes age eighteen and Larry clock, film the script. Larry Clark is come from a photography background, very. He was old. And he he was but he sort of embedded himself in youth coaches. This was a very natural progression for him. But what struck me now is how in a strange ways, quite a kind of conservative film, like an dunno. Whether this is how many Corinne all Larry clock. But it's everything the kids. Do I think he meant to fill disgusted by their kind of immorality like you meant to feel sick. And even the way they kiss each other something court, there's something very like repellent about it like the sound effects of like slurping a very high in the mic. So like, you're almost like repelled disgusted by everything. They do it all myself takes that moral panic and build itself. The ending of the film, essentially says what's happening is terrible. It's almost like a kind of a call to arms. So it's like a charity appeal is that we need to. In fact, I believe there's an credit at the end of the film, I need to check the same fracture. The profits of the film. Will go towards helping kids in his city. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it it actually is weird to see that. Because it is like there is of charity appeal element to is like behavioral ethnography, let's look at these kids and observe and then you know, we as middle class adults. Can so out the problems. This is case study really fascinating where you're just present transgressive nece, but without any radicalism in the violences towards ten people characters the black mandates assaulted in the in the park by the skaters. We have women being sidelined rate soared, you know, that's true. I think this film could be cool boys Rodley. Because the focus is on the male transgression rewatching get an I watched it as a teenager because once they reach certain age. This was a film that was being pushed it this is the real stuff. This is the single fencing in gritty about this film. But watching it back now, it really feeds into that American independent cinema trend of social tragedy being the highest form of drama and looking back now this has been enshrined almost as the bad boy of of coming of age teen cinema. You know, Jona hill can cop to it. And nearly every film is now taking notes from it soundtrack, and they even to tie in with sue prrime street way. Go almost can Rian shoes to new generation, but it really is fits in with recommend for dream and films like that wet tragedy and people going down spiraling down through drugs is seen as high aunts. When really this is very exploitative, really in retrospect, but fascinating to see that. This was a time where now we have. A definition of what teen movies and coming films are there hashtag relatable or they have characters who have their stuff together. And they know what doing and film last year like block is no your fun of that film bath where the kids into this. Navigating similar of drugs and sex and true, but they are more together more aware and hit and their parents. Whereas in this one you are watching for the position at the middle class moral majority thinking almost in more Flanders from the Simpsons type way won't someone think of these children helping out. It's interesting. I think that like, Larry, Clark and harmony Corinne for me both went on and did much more interesting things. Okay. Like as mentioned before. I mean, I think gum. Oh is amazing. And I think captures something bit this more objective and poetic that kids may be shooting full in kids ride the end of the film. This kind of really nauseating sequence of rape sequence. The is prolonged, and you know, just grating an awful and suddenly cuts away to this. Very strange little montage of like homeless people in New York or Saudi mad people like walking around the part like. Grabbing the air and Gumbo is more like that as the film trying to sort of capture some trick you into thinking, you know, what you're watching Israel, and then Larry Clark mid from bullying couple years later, which is very similar to kids in a way. But actually is far more morally interesting about this idea of is it right to take vengeance. On a bullet. You know, like a asked the question, but doesn't give you an answer. It's a true crime film. And this something this really really like bullies is a really amazing fill. Whereas this feels like the kind of very easy one for people to get like upset and annoyed and aggrava- about and right horrible screens in newspapers about both of the films. They went onto do. I superior in every way that was kids a one one loss thing. I wanna mentioned if anyone can remember we found the Adam and Joe show. Yes. Yes. Do you? Remember, they did like if they do kid the kids the toy kids. They really might God. I'm a shout out to my friend Francis. Who actually reminded me of this and are searching high and low on the internet for it. But the toy kids might be better than kids. I think it's worth looking up. They nailed that. Phil fantastic. Let us know if you do find a link or whatever it is some some clips and so on at truth movies on Twitter truth movies at TC, Ellen dot com. Via Email or comments section elderly lies dot com slash podcast. Well, that's the films. This week. Beth david. Thank you so much for joining me, celebrating his hundredth episode. If you know who the Queen of podcasting is that we need to write to for plaque. Let us know. I think maybe Helen Saltzman or Terry gross from fresh air. Let's try and get in. Fantastic. Next week. We have a bad cop Bill head dragged across concrete than you Craig Sala film, starring Mel Gibson, Vince Vaughn, and in film clip, we have Deti Harry starring that guy who used to be an active directory coins, David Jenkins Clint Eastwood, and then also Greta Neil Jordan's film. Starring is about you pair. Let's not think about that, Harry, usual channels. Thank you for listening history of the hundred I might leader as always this has been seven digital production.

Jessie Buckley Stevie David Beth Larry Clark Jesse Berkeley Julie Walters David fakest Nashville Jona hill Hani Corinne Catherine Watson Beth david LA Beth Webb Phil Thompson David Jenkins director New York Lynn
The Courier | Cinema Guys Minisode

The Cinema Guys

08:39 min | 4 months ago

The Courier | Cinema Guys Minisode

"Hey everybody welcome to a mini minnesota minnesota. This one we had the chance to see a screener four. The courier saga starring benedict cumberbatch. And jessie buckley sounds like there. Tell them i'm in my chair. He's just ten. This is unexpected spines. Just a salesman. Exactly you're civilians. The kgb won't be watching it would be a real service to great britain. Do you want me to do. I'm here to open a door to the top manufacturers in the west that'd be putting myself in danger. This mission was the least dangerous. The last man. We'd send make sure you wear it while you're in moscow was this to shoot poison docks. Who is jessie buckley. She was his wife. Okay who was the The russian counterpoint. The spy oh. I don't know. He thought he really do some other things. I can't remember what it was. But this is a spy thriller. Would you say a russian spy thrillers. Set in the sixties right around the The cuban missile crisis cold war right. Yeah i don't know how thriller thriller is getting me. I mean it's definitely obviously a spy movie but it was like i you know yeah i guess so. I guess that's what you would call it. We'll try not to spoil anything since just mini. We can't sport a mini. So we'll we'll we'll try to general. Oh because we won't be able to see. This is just coming out friday that this is released. It's coming out in theaters. So you know people aren't going to have like a quick chance to see it right away. Oh the guy that you've seen another movies actually is matter abn indeed jay You probably know him from other movies. Like ingle macher. He was in one episode of homeland. He wasn't nowhere africa. They're yeah that's what you know from this movie like this genre of movie. I i really dig like old espionage like spy movies and when you get one like this one with it's based off of a true story of crazy a salesman and a russian spy slash defector. He wants to defect to the united states with family. So trading secrets across the border spoiler alert. Well it's based on true story did not expect to like it. I mean i thought it'd be fine. Because i love her batch and if he's in but i really liked i thought okay you know sure but it was really good especially the fact that if you're sitting there the whole time i won't say happens but like thinking. This really happened to this person. And then that again i wish we could spoil his that one seat in the end where their encounter like it just. It's really good. It's said there are pieces in the movie. Where especially towards the end like benedict cumberbatch. Like i wanna look it up like what he did to prepare for this role of the way he looked in the end. Yeah did you think he christian build it. Yes like did a the misha's gotta be right back up for doctor strange again. I know because he did have that doctor. Strange body for most of the movie. He was shops and stuff all the time. 'cause that was my one thing is i was like wait a minute house. He's so buff. Mr businessman show him to push ups a lot of like. Oh they need. They need to let us know that. Looks like the comment in the beginning about If you get if you get captured kind of thing like you're physically not ready for this. He was like what what are you. What do you mean. And then after that is when they start showing like sit-ups and push-ups and i was guessing. It was more makeup te really because they didn't really show him with his shirt off much post him get his face looked real skinny and old but he has chiseled enough face loses maybe also maybe makeup is good though is like that's a lot to losing it back again to get back in there for the marvel her face for maybe not maybe he is a christian. Bale method actor. Maybe i wanted to see who the cia agent who she was. Rachel bronze a hell. I like her. she's really good. She's in house a card mazel basil. Yes yeah she was really good. Yeah everyone in this but you know benedict cumberbatch like this might be my favorite movie of his sense t mutation game which i thought he was fantastic his turn return. Yes yes so. I really liked it. My only fear going sometimes when we get into especially cold war or spy movies a lot of times. They're talking about things. Like i don't know what this is and the whole thin- that's always my fault for being dumb but a number. Actually all of this stuff happened. I was like but it was really you know it was. It was really get news. Release to follow. I was like because in the beginning like what's happening and and to think that we really 'cause you hear about spies and you don't really live. We really asked by. Was it really that important. Yeah but like think that there's so many people who go unnamed who did so much to probably win the cold war and the way he is he's just a salesman civilian and they start handing him stuff and he is like joking like a james bond type of thing like what does this have like a laser in it and like like no. It's it's just a pen. Yeah now let's get. I really enjoyed it. I see stuff like that going man. How cool would it be if you were just a person you got to like. Do something like this. But then if i captured i probably wouldn't have. Oh no question about it. But we can cause that'd be spoiling it but overall like i gave it a four and a half. I really really liked this movie. I highly recommend anyone checking out. Everyone checking it out. What i did four and a half. You also did a four and a half. Yes i really liked there you go. Yeah sorry let me. I half actually. I gave it a four. It's just not my it. I loved it a lot. 'cause benedict cumberbatch is the greatest and i love him a lot but he's a good actor he's just good at anything he does. And especially one. If you like benedicta cumberbatch you're probably gonna like this spy thrillers imitation game or this for better to come back. That's tough because imitation cheaper guide. We good in. I didn't know a whole lot about this going in. So i watched i watch a trailer. I don't think i watched it trailer. I watch me. I did a no trailer on this one. So all i saw was the poster and saw that was like a spy thriller. And i was like all right. I'm in in that. I watched and i was like this is just my yeah. I thought it was nice. Because i haven't seen a movie like this a long time. Yeah everything's been either like realistic. Or very like sci fi lately so yeah can go if you have the opportunity. Go see the currier not. I'm sure it'll probably hit vod. I don't know what date it. It will will demand if not you always your way into seen one. That was a spy. O- look at you smuggle yourself into theater. That's called stealing or spying. Go see the courier. And i think that'll do it for this. Little mini sewed will be back next week with a full episode on the netflix movie. Moxie so watch for that coming until next time maybe see you

jessie buckley benedict cumberbatch ingle macher minnesota kgb Rachel bronze moscow britain misha jay africa Bale united states cia Mr benedicta cumberbatch netflix
FARGO SEASON 4 - Double Toasted Audio Review

Double Toasted

1:01:36 hr | 11 months ago

FARGO SEASON 4 - Double Toasted Audio Review

"As a pro, keeping your business moving saving money is more important than ever. So don't miss lows just propose event now through September twenty fifth get great deals on three of the biggest and best names in tools, Bosch Wall, and Madaba HP T. packed with power. These brands have what it takes to help. You get the job done plus they have all the accessories you need. So you're prepared for anything that comes your way start saving on the tool brands you trust at the just for pros event only at Lowe's the new home for pros us only. So I guess, everybody here is familiar with Fargo. The show in the movie yet not there because. You're familiar with Fargo. You Watch the show on the movie you know in all of those is usually this theme of some. DUMB ASS who has Criminal aspirations. Trying to. Usually, beyond his or her mental capacity for Chri Him. In fucking older and older. Over again, usually leading to their demise. Now, that is the same structure that started this whole series that was found in the movie. Original Movie Fargo did that movie to come at Ninety four. Six mid-nineties long time ago but that's where it all began. In the coal coal city of Fargo. where? One man, all these different stories. Started with one man who simply wanted to kidnap his wife to get some mysterious. Easy right. Kitten her dad, he's real. Well so why don't you just ask him for the money? These are personal matters personal matters. Jerry I don't know what to do. It's my white we gotta talk. Geez, it's. Terrible. No that was solid tight right there he won't go fuck off. He was GonNa get away with that. You slow, clever. So insanely. Funny Yeah Movies. It's Dark but is. Dark. Yeah I'm sorry somebody got killed. But when somebody's fucking just over and over again is getting deeper and deeper. Yeah. Yeah. When you got the main guy who's the mastermind fucking up but then you got the criminals who with him, who they aren't the sharpest guys either when you get Steve Buscemi the. Dirty you already fucked up and dead I peter stormer. Did. Neither one of not doing. White Trash pennywise. Turtle Nickel really. Hard. Criminals you don't go to dollar general for you don't. pennywise Porn Moustache. Moustache. That's the youngest. He's ever been he. Yeah. It really. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. But In the series. Well let me just say more specifically episode are season four of Fargo and season four things take a turn because that's what's been going on with all of these these these these these last series series, one three, it was following that structure and it was following the theme of the these these people who just dumb ass criminals. I mean, even when you have gangsters in gangster families, you see within them all their flaws even the top people. And some of almost like cartoon character. Yeah. Yeah and it sounds kind of crazy. You pitch it that way because it's pretty hysterical man but in season four. This time this moves more away from Fargo and goes into something else that the creators the Coen brothers did this a little bit more like it's going into Miller's crossing territory three. Fray filial. Do. Shoot his. Looking. Shut Him. Up. Some sleep. Squirrel up give the. Shit. That horse. But. The biggest thing that Pete People's curiosity. With this one. because. There's a lot of different not only we starting to get into more gangsta stories and it does feel like he's gangsters on exactly the dumbest people that we've seen in the past Up in. Fargo Yeah Kansas and North Dakota Kansas City Missouri and. The thing that peaked people's interest the most. was. Damn Chris. ROCK LOOK SERIOUS YEAH This confused people the Casting of Chris Rock and people like well, you know Fargo it is a black comedy. To get attended black COMEDIANS. New. This could use probably more labs. You know the the comedy stylings of Dirac right here. But Chris. Rock saying Nothing funny about me here. Not Today. Today I am. A dramatic actor. Through this whole thing I'm not gonNA crack a joke I'm not running on crack a smile. Hopefully when it's all done, I'll even scare the Shit Outta some people. Going to, be mess. With All laughing all these years. y'All. Laughing at me Plato's over. In this Chris Rock Wisey so serious because he plays the head of a crime organization, they're a black crime organization that hopes to gain territory in Kansas City already controlled by the Italians. The two groups about start awards somehow involves a whole bunch of crazy people including an insane killer nurse. Care Nibbling Ranger. To Lesbian Fugitives Hey, we ain't done yet. So there there's so much more I'll tell you what because you're looking at this and you think in men this is okay. Now the Fargo I know this is deviating. Way, too much away from. What I know Fargo to be. From what made it popular. Some people are saying, well, you know what? How long can you keep the same themes up? Awful one welcome change. Those changes worth. Scare some fans away again, nunes was going to take a look at the trailer for Fargo Season Four. Eleven episodes. I saw nine and these guys saw some. We'll see we. Not have engaging combat. Sure which we will do right after this. Sure about this. You remember what happened in Irish Talion did a pass. Future. They just don't know. Where the Goddamn, Roman Empire. Still controlled trucking US railroad. You met my daughter, your daughter, the one and only. Now a CEO said. We need to move now. Heads on straight. Transition of. Power. Enjoy. Decorative. Warrants, the other. This. Is America Sir last time I checked not Soviet Russia. Teaching how the world works in House that has dog so dogs work. A more complicated Benny's Zimmer's little chicken pattern. I've had a world class day. Holy Christmas. Trying to. Help Myself. For years and years what the devil a youtube are to pay that money has been being outlaws. Do a lot of man's curb. Panel Hey. Man. With this be the place said Duggan. Skip to the chase and. He liked to set up. Along the punchline. Good, you tell. Our Good Man. Always acting so Humphrey Bogart's talk. I'm going to slow pump some babies into your daughter one at a time and twice on Sundays. From Minnesota Land of a thousand lakes. Says April right here. Because it was supposed to premiere in April but. That pandemic came. And they push. Yeah. So inconvenient but. I'll tell you one thing that does. Remain. Intact with this. Is. There are is my it might not be easy to notice in the beginning, but this still are a lot of domes- characters. Dome as characters you wouldn't recognize it just get a little time but right at the beginning those gangsters man. Those. Gangsters that look so tough that looks scary. Don't let this shift for you that fucked up to one. That's one of the reasons why they can't succeed they got. They got the stupid. Ritual. Of keeping the peace where the room, the two warring sides and they do some. The Greek show stumping. And they swap. Sons, they swapped their kids youngest son the youngest son has they swapped the youngest sons and after exchange and go live with families. Why? Because they feel like that would store that would keep the peace even though it never works. Showcase said at the beginning of the. First ten minutes of the show and just show you how no matter what. New Mafia rule. A Mafia syndicate comes in, they trade their sons and they just used as a way to like on another family going there shoot each other Trojan horse. You'd think that after the first time it broke down, it'd be like all right. Well, we're not doing this anymore. That's done. They're not GonNa do it again I'd. Done. Shit is stupid man. The reason why it doesn't work because this is supposed to be a code. A code that they follow to keep the peace but that's why the fucking criminals because they don't follow code they have no. They don't follow anything. No honor among thieves at some point. Somebody's GONNA decided like Shit by the LOT WANNA do. Everything, all that about honoring codes. That's just a myth that was built up by the Godfather exactly exactly romanticized. And it's I mean. It's really ridiculous the levels that they go to. 'cause. I'm looking at one thing that they. That they do here. So the when the black mafia comes in led by Chris Rock is characterized is called. What's his characters call Loy Cannon? Yeah. When he's scared to comes in he traces. His son go live with the Italian family. That's like what the fuck major thing that was going to work at all. Attallah's at least these Gangsta as Italians don't even have in black pets. Black cats and dogs, but you're going to go ahead with a black human house. That was never going to work at all from the beginning and they do them dirty. But I, get into that a little bit and how do you look your kid in the face? Like. Yeah I'm. Telling you got traded to another team, but you'll be back when I don't know what I decide when things work out. Yeah, exactly. Man. This shit never works man. You know. They they keep going with this tradition on. So whatever you know never it's never been proven to work. So I'm just Kinda like okay. So maybe the not as Goofy, some the other characters that we saw, but they are completely stupid i. mean the moment shall keeps us going is never worked for decades fuck Mickey things they'll start working today. which is most hated enemies. They never interfaces. They've never addressed the mess. Sir. Now, our friend, they always say what's up spook? Like just saying hello to somebody. But the the biggest question is. How's Chris Rock and this? Another everybody like okay yeah. Yeah I've Seen Fargo just. The wildcard. Cool Yeah and then some people he was how bad Chris Rock come on man it'd be real now domino's have been trying to protect your boy. I'll tell you. It was weird for me because a completely serious Chris rock that's almost like talking about an exotic animal. A completely serious. Chris. Rock I've never seen one of those. What are they like? Those are only in stories. Yeah. It's the big foot of acting. Yeah Man. You know. If a little out of place. To me if I, let me get you guys and your opinion because thing is is his voice man. You know he's got that voice. It's just really hard to take seriously because you just heard him to be funny with them for thirty years. For. Thirty. Yeah maybe he's just told too many jokes. With that voice. But you can't let them and grow. I'm just mounted you what I hear. You're waiting for that punch line. Look you can't let Superman, Sherlock Holmes. Don't come. Also From, less than a week ago. Like what you say you are. You asking you see what you see I hear what I hear. You. 'CAUSE I. Hear it man this is. The voice that makes you wanNA, laugh man. I mean, look. y'All know it is like even with the. The bank with with him here is that. He's just He's out of place because he's around people that just better than him. And really coming out about Chris Rock and movies where he's been. Even trying to be serious there. Even Chris Rock is about to die. People Laugh ask off man doesn't know about it felt for his crackhead ass new Jack City at all even when he was begging for his life. Oil started killing. The building gone. Crazy. Tom, I see him I mean I really do I expect you expect a joke and every time I know I'm laughing but I knew exactly what you mean because I've felt that way through a lot of his performances and other yes. When he's trying to be serious and it's just like, yeah, I'm just so used to hearing that voice tell a joke. S. It's that way with some comedians who just nailed the dramatics like in a way you go. Wow I can't believe you did that and there's some who every time they try to get dramatic. It's like Yep. I'll wait for the joke. Yep Wow. I. Guess. Odd Man. Out I didn't think he was amazing and then a couple of episodes I saw but I thought it was holding his own like there was never moment I was like, Oh, I don't believe in for a second like I felt like he had some emotional scenes that really worked from his debut when he was like I'm a serious actor. Yellow put. Maybe. Guys like shook. You See. Is like, okay no, it is like when he? When he scouting like that? I'm fine. You know we can just keep that scowl up then I I'm good with that. But the moment like he star smiling in this like I'm trying to find a scene because throughout most of this, he he really is very serious. Yeah and I think it works better when he is that serious. But airtime mannered teeth. Time I hear the voice and I, just feel like. I said we. Just never crossed my mind when I was watching him in those in those first couple episodes I I was like, wow, I was actually kind of impressed that he was holding his own some of these other people who are yes or better than him but he I didn't think he did a bad job any of those things and I thought he he be sold the dramatic elements, the dialogue that he was given. You you'd let me finish I'm sorry I apologize. As I was trying to say I felt like Corey with Chris Rock's dramatic performances up until this one this is one where I was with you where I was like you know what I'm not feeling like he's about to tell a joke. He's being more serious and I buy him. This is probably his best performance as far as that goes and it is with him being stern and. Keeping, held in. Now have a lot of range and whenever he's when I go like Chris Rock Keesa, he's a better actor I think he's GonNa be, alright. Until he's in a scene with Glenn termine. What I was GonNa say when he was a real actor like just put the two of them together and it's like yeah okay. Wow. The differences that's flaring exactly. We're going to say when he's there with Glenn term he steals every scene from him because he's a better actor Glenn Term Plays Dr Senate in is he has to play older wiser gangster here and he's trying to actually keep everybody in line. You know he's the guy that's running really run the business behind the scenes you know and And is just that kind of character combined with that kind of that. The character has combined with a season actor. Yeah. I'm just like all right. Yeah. Man You know your weaknesses really show when you around him now that being said. Chris Rock still has a lot of work to do, but it's work that I truly encouraged man because he is he this like you said, Martin he this is the best he's ever been. You know I. He shows Great Promise. Great Promise Man. You know I don't know if there's just like. I don't know deep down Assad Chris Rock is just the angry person because when he? Because when he serious in this he is. He. Really is that when he's at his best, there's even points here where he he gets pretty intimidating and he he gives some great speeches. As a as as it goes on C. You guys you like them here. I liked them I'd have a problem with them but once you start getting because you saw what to episode to have two and a half nine episodes. So I was able to watch on nine of them. When you start getting episode five stuck in episode six when he has to go in and start telling people to fuck with me, he has he does it to. People that Oh, him money he does it to his family. There's a great speech here. He tells his wife straight up take that Goddamn coat off you don't pay for Shit around here. What'd you get that cold from WHO pays the food around here? What you think we're going to get rich stay rich by being nice. Ain't talk shit to mother-in-law to the mother talk about. You like Oh your Highness. You GotTa Room with a view. When you take that came from you. Know I was like God Dow. Chris Rock is laying down. Okay. I look forward to see that because I can tell you that. You talked about comedy I mean there's little bits of comedy here was like the biggest the funniest thing to me so far in these two episodes I've seen is that The head of the two families, the Italians and the and the and the and the black gangsters guess rocking, Jason. Schwartzman. The least intimidating guys I've seen so far. Chris Rock. He gets later on down the line. I don't want to spoil too much. Let me just say this he lays it down mentally and physically. Okay stuff fuck us. Okay. It. I I was thinking the same thing I was like that's another reason why when he's with Lynn termine you, you'd think like this guy, he doesn't one really pulling the strings around here because Chris Rock Leila's doing shit oh no. No Chris Rock. There's points where he walks into people's houses and tells them straight up you owe me. and. If you don't, you can pay what you life are. You can get more money some other way, and I was like fuck I believe this. Well, it's one of these things where I'm watching it and to episodes like. Two and a half episodes in. And, of course, the the black gangsters are the underdogs. So you kind of. But as a point I had to stop and go like wait. All these people are criminals don't don't any don't know don't don't do that and. Ruin for anybody I'm rooting for Chris Rock in this role because I was like I'm impressed by the end of it still has more work to do but I was really impressed. Now it could be I just saw a picture him fucking hooked out and got ads and everything. You know maybe maybe that affected me. But I I bought into. This is crazy all these over fifty comedians getting all swollen up and strong. Thing, but you know it it I'm sure it's nice to be able to afford a personal trainer. nutritionist everything else does that nearby this we just. Let carrot top PUCK. He didn't turn pets. Wants carrot top got strong by. Get the program to you can get yo ass by carrot top. Well I. Think it's probably more of like all right. We're getting attacked more stage for the jokes we tell. So we gotta be ready to. Year Yeah. So a lot of people even know that that was a dude. People thought that was a chick. Nicole Bass, or something she worked out so much. disappeared. I tell you and plus. I've always. About that Chris Rock at the potential to be. Somewhat of a more serious actor because I know he's kind of spire to that. You know he did nurse Betty and even said in his bed out I was. He said, I'm not really ready for this I could tell when he did top five which I liked I enjoyed it. He directed that and he wrote it and there are moments in he's being Chris Rock. So he's being funny but I can see glimpses of where he's like I really don't want to be a black woody Allen right now. I don't feel like doing funny movies anymore. I don't feel funding some of that stuff with your towns interview. I just want a decent story. You give me a couple of really honest things. I will be more than fair just as Chelsea Brown, she's doing a story on me. No snitch it. Was a I thought it was a pretty decent lead man net to not again not perfect, but you're not great but you know decent. No I'm with I'm with you on this man I think Chris Rock is actually pretty good in this. Yeah. I mean even because they do present the the the blacks, a criminal syndicate as underdogs but you you do feel for them especially because unlike dishman character who is I mean? Yeah, he's. He's kind of Goof as well. You could tell us like you should not be in this position. Of Power I mean I think they make that obvious but I but they do present Chris Rock's character in a positive light especially how he interacts with the son of the when he gets them like like before they go to the house and we're kids see his mother again when he gets on that kids level and like speaks to him as a human being. So that was the warmth. I really bought that they show two different sides of him as actually three different size the businessman we actually cares about his family and community. The father which I really enjoyed, and also the criminal element. So it's that was a good balance. So far of a of a pretty solid performance Nah Nah if you like what you saw. In the two episodes saw. You're going to like him a lot more. Grown Fargo is never let me down. Yeah. He grows into that. He actually grow to that character kick Chris. Rock is is very strong when he actually has to, you know be very intimidating which he does get to a certain point. Now I don't think the writing is a strong. Later on as the other. Series before it because it, the things you didn't see yet is that What you saw a glimpse of it episode one maybe it was episode two. There's a long as Fart, joke? In there. Did you see this? Yeah. So all right, you know whatever you know let that slide it was therefore particular reason but. As it goes on. There's another. Ten Minute Long Gag. With nothing but farts, well, there's nothing but fars, there's a little bit more to it, but it could probably work but it's every far that you've heard from. Every sound effect catalog. In every show on TV, they went through all of them it wet far draft far squeaky farts with this one care to WHO's having some stomach trouble I'm just like all right you know. Could this be done without all of that and it could, and then you even think like man, I know the Coen brothers are not really involved in this I'm sure producers and whatnot because names on it, but you just can't help but feel like. They wouldn't sink this low with that. You know they did a really does feel out of place for something like this you know these. These these these shows are so good because of the bizarre characters that come in in the situation they get into a lot of humor comes from that. You know a lot of it comes from the very dark humor in the absurd. Yeah. And so for them to put it in a long as far joke I'm alright. Well, you didn't really need that, but it's done. Go ahead. Tell you I was intrigued though. Because they constantly keep introducing new characters in the new characters they keep introducing, but first of all, start out. Crazy. Characters come in out crazy that last one. Is like. Because, that's what this show trademark of this show is to have some really funny characters some clever characters catchy care for in some very bizarre, outrageous, Karen. And I will say that maybe this one runs the risk of having too many because it can be a little overwhelming because each new crazy character is. A major character then not some you know they're not like a quick cameo in a one off. And they get introduced almost in every episode there's always a new one is there's another one coming into this guy dowse to dealing with this. I gotTA deal with show craze coming in now and for anybody WHO's watching this. It could get a little overwhelming in a way. Because you haven't got to a lot of those crazy characters. The most recent new character is Timothy, Allah Font as the the Mormon Marshall. Yeah Yeah you know and that's see. That's the thing about it though I will say this win the story does start to feel like has been. Overwhelmed with all these wild characters bringing in. These crazy characters still have great performances man that that that that is a hallmark of this. It's the COEN brothers or no holly is that I mean, you know you got the crime in the humor but how beautifully and well, it's shot the attention to detail on the costumes and the sets and the great performances by actor. Yeah and that's what they have here. They got a lot of great performances from a lot of people men even when they seem may maybe like a little too bizarre. I gotta give give it to the actors and actresses man they do a great job and I always fun to watch if not the now if you're not interested in what's happening, you can't help but like continue to like be glued to characters man than a so insane This girl Jessie Buckley Man. I love her she plays the kill nurse. I was talking about Oriana. mayflower where we seen him before. Really. I mean seriously like really I mean I. Know something about I'm just I'm blanking you school me on her man. But you know what? Oh Shit Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. I didn't realize I was her was rated. Cuss me. To me? Yeah Yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. No. All right. Sorry but you know what I was. She she she looked very different because she's doing that thing where she's Crookham out. Well, she was she was in a she was just in I was thinking of ending things thinking of ending things which was on Netflix. plus she was in, she was in a tournament. Yeah. That's yeah. Totally different cameras and I don't blame you. That's why I say island you off the. Hook you. You figure out who she is, but I, don't blame you because this girl is such comedian. I mean chameleon. What you be comedian to at this point because she's so good. She's such chameleon man. I gotTA. Tell you. It's just something that's in Yemen go. Here's something completely hot about her with this character that insanity. The craziness she got an. Accident she has his minute that Minnesota accent. The know how you're sure. I thought that at first. But some of the things she's up to that little. Walker, hurts you. Know. I don't know but that will walk Bismuth. Thank man she will just unleash show. In the right place. Like. A praying Mantis as she. She's got their red hair and it's something about. Something about she's got that weird that by attractive she's like like she just had a stroke. Sammy Davis Junior. That mouth that mouth stays on the right side of things. I know he's always talking. About, it does not move. You got a Mr Potato Head, and you just put the mouth over here I'm going to wear. Plus she has some of the best dialogue no. Yes. Yeah. You're right I mean it is. So, often in these the characters. Always, like cartoon characters that somebody breathes enough life into that they become real. Yeah and it works man again you know what? The cool thing about this and I think what attracts people to this is that These. A crime stories that a very violent. Moments where they do have. Drama deep drama that works very well, and they match to come in and fitted with these characters like you say are pretty much cartoons and they walk that balance very well in. Jessie Buckley as. As that insane killer nurse, she's one of them, but again, you just you were so. You were so that the her performance and when you know. When you realize all the other stuff that you've seen her in. It's like Jesus man is this actress Grayton Benny's Zuma's slow chicken powder had a world class day. Holy Christmas. Totally out of fucking mind Oh. Yeah. Yuck I mean just so far stuff she's doing like why? Because he's crazy. Yeah I mean maybe there's a reason why I don't know yet because I'm watched all load even got two more episodes left but yeah man. Well the show is also very unpredictable. No behind to that point where I really do appreciate like, okay. You see all these characters interacting with each other but like, okay, when's it all gonna come to ahead once they're gonNA finally coalesce like this is the final conflict or explosion and figured out and that's what Fargo I think just to such a great job doing all the previous seasons to. Again I think they could get on people's nerves with so many loose ends going about not knowing how they're going to get together. But you know like I said, the characters will keep you there you know Jason Schwartzman. Now he is more along the lines of those Fargo characters the traditional. As. Fargo. Characters. Because he actually carries a little bit of authority with him, you know you see him and is like, all right you know he. As. It goes along. He's trying to run things and you believe he could if he wasn't so obsessed would other bullshit and plus the other thing is that I, don't care how much authority he got. Jason Schwartzman just continues to look like a little boy. Yeah. Look a boy, a little boy in his daddy. Daddy Daddy. I'm the boss. This is my town. On, helping put them out there and play in the playground with even a fucking mustache she got. If they even that don't look real. overcompensating. As they put him in the bag is close to make it look like. Yeah Yeah. Man also got that brother who's undermine their own. Little brother. Brother a little bit. Yeah Man. Yeah me this man ain't grown CPA made it premiere as a teenager Rushmore Deal Know he never changed. Like somebody put a fucking, retina? Sue. Rates. I talk about rattling Jason. Put Him a little. Fantastic. Mr Fox. Yet Timothy. Man. We were talking about him. and. I like his care to let that. He's GonNa play law in for the rest of his life. He says man. He's good at it. So what you GONNA do. Yeah Man. Oh. Where did I put on man because he's a? He's really good. Slips I've gotTA pull. them, up. Oh here. Let me see here. Forgot to pull some of clips up 'cause 'cause they actually really good. when you see them in their performances Timothy Man, he's like. He's like A. He's one of the the more moral people in here but it's discourages fun. He's like A. He's like a bugs Bunny Mormon in here he just goes around. Comes up keeps chewing on you guess you missed he keeps tuna carrots. Yeah. Didn't notice that. Yeah. The way the he doesn't more just going around offering people carrington spitting out proverbs said, but he gets the job done and dusted thing menace it's a I think it's going to be A. Because as Fargo, it's going to be incompetent character and he does say a lot of stupid shit that gets people laughing at him. He's subjects considered armed and extremely dangerous Alpha team Leonard through the main doors Beta team penetrate through the rear. View. No I'm in I'm GONNA fucking by. Nasr. Keep playing. He's He really is one of the. He's one of the the the the few care in here that is really trying to be on the side of Lorraine even though he doesn't. But see that's the thing that I like about this because he says some things he does some things and they even those things seem like on fuck this cop maze pulling net he's pulling neck cops it on people but. When you realize you're dealing with people who all somehow even the most innocent people. Have a small typical. Dipped in criminality. Yup. Is like you have to rule you have to root for the the. The the less of all evils. You can't help but root for this guy tell you why a little bit. Because for one, he's chasing. Chasing these lesbians? You. These. Two fugitive lesbians that escape cons escaped cons. One of them Amber mid mid thunder who is that Anchorman Thunder? Yeah that is actually she's in a lot of no holly stuff. She was on one of the main characters on Legion and she's been in Fargo before okay. I was wondering yeah. That's hurt. Okay. Didn't look like as she plays turtle all her native American girlfriend and then the other person niche recognize is crazy us. Oh Yeah. Who is still fundraising crazy. To. Con- you said You sir. Let once wanted caps. What kind of cockeyed names are those Money prospects what kind of prospects. Nothing organized about our time 'cause crime is free down. What are you up to their loved you know? Look at. This and you see how people interact with them and it really makes you. WanNa root for certain characters. Yes. Should. But when you're dealing with people like this. No no they they come in and it's like. Yet. You guys you too much of an element of agent of chaos. They really are men tell you that the reason why you? They made me they made me angry man first of all, they make them angry because the pieces of shit they know they're gonNA they're to do what they WANNA do, but there's a another. person who was sort of the. The The true moral compass of the show. You know the the the person who has a good heart in that is the character at the Rita Crutchfield I'm. I'M GONNA. Try to girl's name emiri crutchfield. I should I guess other related I'll put up on. Anyway. She's a she has a family in in the show. Did you see this part when when the when the two lesbians escaped and they went to the family? and. The cops are you talking about when he interrogated her? Well we interrogated her in this family that's related to them. Is this like you know I want to actually root for her family oh? Yeah. I want to It's nice seeing A. Nice in the love and family, and this is nice seeing people get together. But that's the those one of those craze as. She is the sister. Of this girl's mother and it's like you know what? Why L. in his people in your house why are you dealing with them? You know this is going to go, and if you saw that in the first episode are the second episode and what they do. They make seemed really dumb decision. I can tell well, it feels to me like even though they they appear more competent like the family unit. Some William H, macy in all of those people where it's like they're not as dumb but they. Made some dumb decision over there. Yeah. Yeah. Cleveland clearly well, the. Her parents. The. The pretty and pretty stable and maybe one is dumb and the other. But the but the mom you know she comes across as a strong woman who puts a foot down for the safety of a family and and they just make some decisions which actually made me go in and even questioned the writing in this. I got to a point where like I, don't even I don't believe these characters would be making these decision plus there's no lead up if you would love to talk to you about this. Like a when you're done with all these, we'll have to have sort of A. Spoiler conversation because. They make decisions that happened out of nowhere. That, there was no up as why would you all of a sudden decide to do this criminal act when you had no hint of that before at all and that's what Ha- that's what happened with his family and it just kind of yeah. It bothered me a little bit I I will say that when you when you have the the to lesbian couple. When they when they enter I felt they were the most ridiculous characters introduced so far in where just the dynamic between them just feel natural to me even when they're by themselves like when they when they finally escaped prison, it's I mean it really is some looney tunes type Shit they're doing with them where it's even even like the the the the other one. Is Very corny accent and I wasn't really buying and you know what else about them like I I enjoyed them for a little while until it got to a point where. They would you could tell that they here just so they could be used as a tool for something else. Okay. Yeah. They opened on. These. Lesbians Right here. This. Bearded Harry Lesbian. No they'd there is something that has to happen. There's a plot point that has to happen is something that needs to know they need something so that it can be a solution of something else and these characters are introduced just for that thing as far as I see right now. Okay. Yeah. Because they're the one element that I've not like so far. Yeah. It's not that don't like them. I. Think you like the more when you see them because everybody's is at first introduced something as you know almost there they're weird ways. A quirky bizarre ways introduces comedy. Everybody's getting a little bit of backstory at some point everybody getting a little You know everybody's given something to make them seem a little bit more human, which is why I was kind of disappointed with the Italians. The Italians to me in the beginning. They. Will be let me see if I can find the Italians here. They kinda are introduced as just typical Gangsta. Types. Going around and I guess all the gangsters here in certain scenes. They're just doing male posture. Getting up in their faces can you know showing no empathy or sympathy thing can't wait to shoot something right? You know I'm taking over this just because I'm on show you you know I it's all about power, and so that's I think that's one of the things where people might be disappointed with this because. Fargo was dealing with just kind of everyday average ordinary people and that's why they were really just dumb as unless they just again try to get over their head and that's what happened there. Everyday ordinary people who have no business trying to do crimes if they just as a kiss they stayed in their lane. This, these are true gangsters right here man and with that, you get more the gangster stereotype with them. You know. Which is fine at some point. Some who better than others I really liked the character and I don't know if you know. The the the equivalent of Glenn Term Doctor. Dr. Senator, they they had. There's which was this this actor writer who I couldn't believe fifty five Jeez this Guy Francesco equil-. Akwa Rowley hit defy. Many aged him up I guess I hope because he yeah because I looked at him as a God fifty five unless I read wrong. And let's just. Put a Turkey and best rates. Puts a makeup on them but. I thought I these gangs. I wish there could be a little bit more but they're just being typical gangsters right now and that brother were talking about wasn't named Salvatori Yeah. Oh, man. that. Guy. That guy was they got. Big Ass Italian in here man. They call them the Bull Salvatori. esposito's at the characters name was that. s mosquitoes the actor's name. There you go. To a Procedo that's actor. He's a big as Italian now and he's actually very interesting because he's the he's the wild card. Fraud He's The wild card. His is booked every time he talks. Everything is like these was. he's like a big is out. PSYCHOTIC Mario Mix. Because everything is like this is is always and there was one part where he was doing that way to yeah. Yeah it gets a little cartoonish. Does. Does he was like A. Like a man Italian craziest season. The Howard. Yeah. There's a point where he actually has a long I. Wish I could show you couldn't but there's a scene where is about five minutes and he's just walking around all the characters not saying anything is. Heavy breathing. Doing issue because it s so big. Acting. Should we shoot him as? Soon. As. You wait on somebody to say cut. Lets you can do. Lose going. Around just hooking people. God did you just help some paint on his leg man is? The thing he does gets a little bit too much. To. Get to that scene. So I think as episode four. Just had a drank like diet coke. Drinker low-slung he took a sibling. Because he comes over from Italy it's almost like he can't believe. America. Yeah. Skyscrapers, it's like God Damn Andy. We try to say simple things. Stay in America. Accurate. Just. WanNa. Breathe. I'll tell you he's there's a thing with him to this a see what some of. These stories where they introduced to many of these eccentric characters. That the criminal part of it, they start to just do things. That don't feel natural again, like with the family that was talking about earlier. You know there's a lot of these things where these criminals all of a sudden they change allegiances. They changed the feelings of even after just get to somebody's as next scene is like. I, my life two. Things happened. So quickly, characters flip. So suddenly and I think it's because they have so many characters that they have to. work with that, they don't have time to actually make these natural transitions where these characters change. If that makes sense. I can understand if occurred wants to change their allegiance to understand if somebody all of a sudden decides to do something criminal where they show no inkling of that at all before. But you gotTa have time to develop that and they don't they're going so many twists and turns they got so many characters in here. Yeah. I'll tell you that but like I said man. You know. You Watch because not you know characters change. Are they flip or whatnot? It's not convincing but you watch because you have you have. Fun With these characters. and. Because if they do it, right if they catch US care at the right time, they have enough time to do with that character, they'll give them some background jack. Houston's character in this Jack Huston's character. This guy that had the he was in Boardwalk Empire Harold Richard Herald. He was just an antebellum. Processing has gone before him. You recognize mostly mustache utilize a mustache he does not miss but he plays like a cop take who has this weird tests on we're all seniors. Yeah he's got some OCD I. It's played up for laughs in angle is funny. You don't have to. Just turn off. Opening for. Open the. At the window. that. Got Me at first I thought what he was doing I. Thought Somebody was in the bathroom. To take me. Away. In. A. Chest. But. He's got all the other cops and they're going through a house. He's the primary on the door. Scale. He's trying to get a car. If. You don't eat as Lee but you know he's given A. Later on is played up laughs early but later on, they definitely give him a some backstory about what led up to his condition. What is childhood was like? So. I do respect that maybe they don't always. Define these characters well, by their motivations, they do manage to go in and make them more human whether it just seem like we're characters at first and they always do that man even care does that you hate and laugh at in in some the other Fargo seasons this something more going on with the serve. You know, and here's another thing and I don't know if y'all have reached this part yet I can't tell you what it is but shit starts to get very weird. They always like to open up the show saying this is based on a true story bullshit bullshit. I'll complete bullshit unless UFO's actually because. We've seen. Fargo, the series takes place in a complete fantasy. ALMOST SCI-FI TYPE WORLD And the barely comes in and did you guys see any of that here? No. There's a pointing here. Where is like okay I don't know what the fuck is going on with. That is a whole it's like A. Character from another genre just walked into Fargo Okay and they lost they don't. You Actually Wanna ask them like. Do, you need help. You know where you are because I think you lost. I can't say where it is but you're GonNa, you see it and I don't and I have yet to see. What it has to do anything once to connect. I don't know what it connects to mad at all man in one episode. They had a UFO dish showed up out of nowhere and they have. That here. In the UFO showed up because it's a throwback to a Coen brothers movie they do that with dialogue and everything even here one character says you got a penny on your head that's from Zona Yeah. So Yeah. Somebody chats it is some x men, Shit Art. xbox. X. Men to. Some some ex-spouse type should have interesting and it's just very small, right? They do it and you forget about it, and then they pop up again and I'm like what the fuck man is happening. But I. Tell you men a between the weird characters and the strange things that happen in this. There's You need to watch this man really because there's something that happens later on where. Do. You wonder what's going to happen with these two characters who are. Really. Just kind of caught up in everything that it adds. There are small part of the machine and everybody treats them like that, and will something very curious was when the second season we have boop Boqing Woodbine and he keeps saying his name is Mike Milligan. Throughout that and say you didn't seem actually related to anyone. But now here you have the black kid who's living with the white gangsters and Irish gang somebody there and S- name was Michigan Yeah this going to say man would all like people if you get frustrated with all the crazy characters you can you know all these weird shit happen in. All the games to stop that's going all the violence. Keep going because as you start getting the late episodes say run. Six and seven. That character Rabbi Michigan. He starts to play a bigger role. And that's been wind shaw plays him and that's when. That's when the real heart of the show starts on me. Okay. No He's a he was one, the one, the kids one of the sons that was swapped. He's Irish guy that was swapped when he was doing that whole thing with the tradition with the sons and he's forced to do some really horrible things at a young age and he's looking for some redemption and ways kind of doing that is with Chris Rock's his character son the guy that Loy. cannon are. Gannon. Protective of the kid. Yeah and you root for them man because first of all the Italians treat them both like shit, the the the little black boy in. Rob Milligan they got them locked up in a dusty dirty room and meanwhile the Italian downstairs eating a big ass Turkey dinner and upstairs they PB and J. Sandwiches. I'm sorry. The one even though Jalen. Just straight up peanut butter inbred now. and. It just makes you angry because over as you said earlier. Open, Chris Rock, spam they're treating Italian. Son Dignity I liked the dichotomy between the two households. Yeah. But the you know you really root for them because he's very protective of Chris. Rock's character son. And he's doing that because of the cruelty that he sees, he doesn't want be there. And they form a partnership does almost like a small family. And that's all I'll say just just watch it man with because it's a lot of times would all the crazy characters in the criminals is hard to really attach yourself to somebody like someone and they are the the and like I said, man, this is nine episode. So that's probably something where it might be too late for some people to go that far if you're not like him, would you see early but? I I was really loving this story. It was. I really think that that is. When when it gets down to it, I haven't finished it yet. But when you get down to these, this is going to be the sole of this series right here I will admit like I didn't recognize Ben Winch at first when he's playing that character league even like his his body language you can you can tell just life is this weighing on and look how slouched There's performance. So off the on the Italian side of the show thought he he's he's he's by far given the depth Al's characters. Yeah. Go see what they do with him. And I you know and before done man I love. I gotTA. Tell you besides being one of the. Most Beautiful TV shows onto still is Fargo has some of the direction. Fargo has summoned the. Best Cinematography for for TV series. Go. Hey. What do you other shows doing this? Yeah Man. The director. Of Our, whoever the directors on every episode is different directors every night, but they're consistent man the consistent. and. They are able to tell the story not just through beautiful images but manny told they told so much this through the moving camera. Following characters you know tracking them as a going different places set up things just through their physical actions this Th, this is still if you don't want to watch for the story watch just a few episodes because it is it looks great and even though they're not Fargo, anymore. It's kind of Nice that when does finally come around because they still they're able to capture some of the feeling of fargo that way and Fargo does make somewhat of a cameo. Okay figured it would. Not In Fargo but Fargo happens to find some kind of way another. My last point is something that you said. Is that. All these people are criminals may Alma assholes. That's what kind of liked about it because they do. Stop to make a point that yes. America. Was Very Shitty to it's people are calling. You know and as There's shameful past four. How black people. Were treated as second class citizens. But at the same time, it's like man that's cool. But. Assholes an Aso Hilo Yala just. Anybody. Who would trait this money? Yeah. For power is that person's not that good man So it was really hard to roof indies people but I do like that. This is kind of commenting on the state of America right now again was shot before in this stuff went down. But there a message about all these like we said at the beginning all these criminals man, they can't they do this tradition of trade and sons they haven't learned a fucking thing about that you. Know they never learned. They never stopped look at the children and learn how how can we learn about different culture in maybe work together so that we can make one big criminal empire here. Yes. True. They just constantly just no one. No one keeps power because they keep undermining each other and it's kind of like an analogy for America's like, wow, you know if we all just stopped bullshitting. And just learn how to get along. Yeah. This country really could be this great thing that everybody. The myth hit him. Yeah, exactly. So. Yeah. Man I it's but it's I. Don't know man what if you guys can even give a rating after two episodes I don't feel like I can but I'm liking what I've seen so far as a matter of fact, with the second episode I was like I'm like I don't I like it as much as the others, but then just my little bit getting into the third episode Hemi going. ooh, Shit. This is getting good. Abbas. Hated that I had to tear myself away from it. What do you think about two episodes episodes in I'm really enjoying it but like Martin said it's It feels like the weakest but even though I, say that it's still great television I mean brought before it's shot beautifully. No no holly he he directs the first two episodes and you could tell because he has he hasn't he has an I. I like most the character so far there are a couple of I'm like, okay I don't really see what what impact you're. GonNa. have in the story except to annoy me at this boy. So I'm going to give the benefit dominancy it all connects together because like all the previous Fargo, all these characters do eventually do cross paths and he comes to an end for a lot of them. So yeah. No, I'm still looking forward to check out the rest the season when it's all. Yeah. Yeah Man, I have I have two. Episodes left it might change hinging on what the ending is. It might be some crazy at first. I didn't know I thought it was nine episodes. In here. dysle- Episode because right now in something really crazy. The always have some sort of act of God that comes in that's insane in into right on that allowed, and it's almost like a wizard baas episode to. Get up. It's a Lotta experimental crazy stuff going with this but like you told me ahead of time. Yeah. But you have to see for yourself. It's it's it's a strange show that has gotten stranger. By again, introducing so many elements mainly the characters and that that's the thing that Kinda funny because the performances help out a lot that's what keeps you in there, but they having so many of them context away from the story. Still I was into a man by the time I got near the end of the episodes that we got and I give it a give it a matinee. I enjoyed it man. If you like this like the previous episodes just be prepared to say. Is Not as good as those possibly but it's still. Still better than a lot of bullshit does on TV. Yeah. Tell you that right now. The one and only. Now, we see it. We, need to move now. To Street this is what you call transition of power. Decorative. Warrant As a pro keeping your business moving and saving money is more important than ever. So don't miss lows just propose event now through September twenty fifth get great deals on three of the biggest invest names in tools Bosch to wall and Matab OH HP T packed with power. 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GSMC Movie Podcast Episode 220: I'm Thinking of a Beautiful Tomorrow

GSMC Movie Podcast

1:11:48 hr | 11 months ago

GSMC Movie Podcast Episode 220: I'm Thinking of a Beautiful Tomorrow

"Can't decide in torn between a romantic comedy action or an Indie film to watch for the weekend. Well, well, golden state media concepts move you. PODCAST is ultimate guide to the latest movies join us as we dissect the latest on the. Busters. It's the Golden State media concept's movie podcast. Minor. Hello and welcome to the GMC movie podcast brought to you by the GMC podcast network I'm your host Casey bomb. I, hope they are all having a wonderful weekend. Today is Sunday September sixth, and I've got a very exciting show for you today I was kind of aware of what this episode was going to be and by happenstance. kind of doesn't really have a theme, but all of the movies do sort of work together much like that top five list. I did a a week ago or so about unrelated movie days. So if you watched all three of the movies, actually four this week that I'm going to be talking about in this episode together, it would make for a pretty interesting movie day. So the first one is called I'm thinking of ending things it's a brand new film from Netflix it was developed with Charlie Kaufman a very acclaimed screenwriter who directed this one you may remember him because I reviewed eternal, sunshine of the spotless mind, which is a movie that he directed. Originally I intended for this day, I'm going to be completely honest with you guys for this episode I originally intended for the day to be all about him Charlie Kaufman Day I went. On a little bit of a Charlie Kaufman kick earlier in quarantine I did a day where I watched both being John Malkovich adaptation which I had never seen either of those. I have to say it was a little much to do both of those in the same day. But I kinda wanted to review. One of those is like a week recommendation because I like both of those movies and then watch when that I hadn't seen for my weekly watch something like New York or anomaly or whatever. And I watched ending things last night because it came out on Netflix on Friday I'm according to on Saturday and It's very heavy. It's a lot to take in and I didn't know if I can handle another Charlie Kaufman movie for my Saturday morning. So instead. I. Actually just got my first BLU ray because I never used to have anything to play a BLU ray on now I have a PS four. So I can play Blu ray discs on it got my first one and it just so happens to be the Don Herzfeld collection who and he is one of my favorite creators I. Think I've mentioned in once or twice on the podcast before. The. Collection has most of his short films because he's mainly short film director, but it also has. His feature film called it's such a beautiful day. So that's my weekly watch I had seen it before when it was on net flicks. A couple years back but I hadn't seen in a long time wanted to revisit it because I didn't remember liking it all that much and I do really like Don Herzfeld. So that's my weekly watch. Super excited talk about that, and then my weekly recommendation. For the first time, I'm going to be reviewing a short film and I'm actually GonNa be reviewing two short films mainly just the first one but both I think kind of go hand in hand and a lot of ways, and it is a Don Herzfeld short film. It is my favorite arguably my favorite piece of media ever. If you can consider a short film, a favorite movie, definitely my favorite movie of all time, and it's called tomorrow and then subsequently world of tomorrow to the burden of other people's thoughts. And because we're talking about short films, part of my favorite form of filmmaking, the last segment is going to be not top five this week because they're short films top ten short films of all times. He's going to be my ten favorite short films of all time, and it's probably not going to be a ranked list. It's most likely GONNA be ten short films that I really enjoy watching because it's kind of hard to revisit them in a lot of ways. Some of them are just not available Can't go and watch any of them again. So I can't really rank them as well but I will be able to tell you guys that I enjoy all of them won't be a ranked list, but it will be a top ten. So I'm super excited for that. So a very heavy day little bit of a confusing film day. But nonetheless, I'm super excited for this episode and I hope that you are too. So without further ado, let's get started. All. Right. So I'm thinking of ending things is a brand new film on Netflix Netflix original written and directed by Charlie Kaufman it stars Jesse Plemmons and. Buckley I honestly. I really don't know how to describe this film. It's very difficult to create just a simple. Summary Log line. The best that I can do is that it follows a young woman as she travels to her boyfriend's parents house relatively new boyfriend. The parents houses a secluded farmhouse in the middle, of Homa, and she discovers things about her own past and about her boyfriend that she never would have expected. So there's really a lot to unpack about this movie. I was really excited. I. Knew had been kind of in adaptation for a long time. It's been developed for Netflix's for a couple years now. So, all always going to be a net flicks movie, which is definitely an interesting choice and in my own experience, my own sort of. Watch history from what I've been able to see. netflix's much better at television shows I've really enjoyed almost every television show that Netflix's put out I, watch a lot of their series. But as far as netflix original movies, it's taken them a long time to even get some good ones and even now that they have some good ones, they're pretty inconsistent. It's pretty difficult to figure out when there's going to be a really good one. But I was Kinda thinking if anybody's able to break the form that Netflix's has been doing. At some consistency add some originality it would be charlie. Kaufman. He famously did a movie called adaptation that's an adaptation of a book and adaptation of the book is about adaptations of books. It's not really about the book. It's very crazy it's very meta, and so he's kind of the screenwriter to do it. I. Really Love Him. He wrote one of my favorite movies Turtle Sunshine Spotless Mind I also really enjoyed John Being John Malkovich and adaptation. So I was really curious with this one was going to be like going in. I. Didn't watch any of the trailers I knew nothing about it. I have to say that I did really enjoy it. Did I like it though I'm not one hundred percent sure now I know that might be kind of confusing but I have to say that throughout it I was very intrigued a lot of the moments I enjoyed I think it's extremely well done but by the end I wasn't really sure if it got me maybe the end was a little bit disappointing or underwhelming som specific routes. That I thought the movie was going to go in that it didn't It ended up being a movie about. A lot of different things than it sets itself up as in the beginning, which may ultimately be a discredit to the movie because I think everything that the movie is trying to say is set up in the beginning but on a I watch where you don't know what it's about or I have to assume even if you do kind of know what it's about the first, the beginning of. The movie feels like a different type of movie than it ends up being about especially like the themes and the characters that it's following an early whose story it really is is a little bit misleading but I also do feel like that is somewhat intentional. So I'm not saying that necessarily as a knock, but it did make the viewing experience a little bit underwhelmed by the end of the movie. That being said I have to say I think that I would really enjoy this on a second watch. It might end up being a little bit slower more boring on a second watch because I know a lot of the the the slower moments there might have been some moments that should have gotten trimmed down. Ultimate Lean. But I do that I would like it a lot on a second watch because I ultimately know what it's supposed to be about what it's trying to say, a lot of those little nuances. That I didn't pick up on the first. Run. I might be able to pick up on the second one because this movie is smart as hell the screenplay is extremely well ridden and you have to expect the SPEC. That was Charlie Kaufman. This is one of those movies that a lot of criticism I give for certain screenplays for movies is that it should have gone through a couple of different a couple more drafts. Are some nuances that it didn't catch or some moments that could have been called back to really. Nicely. And this script is just so tight. You can tell it went through just the right number of drafts maybe even went too far could have gone with one less straffed potentially but realistically, every small moment in the beginning that you don't think has a major impact on the story comes back pretty pretty largely at the end. So everything is called back to really nicely. Everything in it is really unique and really original. That's another thing you can expect with Charlie Kaufman it kind of sets itself up as a much more straightforward story in the beginning, and then by the last twenty, thirty minutes, it's completely experimental throws all of that sort of linear narrative out the window, and you really have to guess what's going on I have to say I wasn't quite sure. What. The. Message. Or, what the ultimate reason for this movie being made was by the end of my experience by the end of watching it but I do I can say now pretty well that I know what it's trying to say somewhat. It's been twenty four hours. I can't necessarily say that I know everything but I do know somewhat of the themes that it's trying to approach and I think that they are some pretty important themes and they work really well injects to position with each other. I also do really like this is a movie that doesn't play all of its cards at once it has a of different things that it's trying to do and a lot of different unconventional tactics of how to go about that. And throughout the first probably hour and a half there isn't there are multiple moments where you're kind of like What was that that seems weird that that kind of are a little bit jarring for the audience and even I would say there's there's one in particular that I really like, Oh, I meant to say this at the beginning. Okay I'll say this right now if you don't want any spoilers going to this movie, if you want to know nothing about it, I would recommend not listening to this section of the episode. I would move onto the next one not listen to this review only because there are so many small intricate things that enhance the movie. So if you to nothing. I would I would skip this go watch. It later but if you don't really care about some minor different things, go ahead and listen to this. It's not I'm not going to spoil anything super major but there are some minor things that definitely caught me by surprise or made me enjoy things a little bit more and I'm going to be saying a few of those things but no major story spoilers. So if you're not worried about that keep listening otherwise I would recommend watching it and coming back later. So this is one of those things. One of the things is that. The main character is really never given a name. So I didn't realize this until I put on subtitles about twenty minutes into the movie because they don't really say her name kind of in the beginning, and then every time that her name comes up in the subtitles who speaking it just says young woman and you kind of get at a certain point, their names, Lucy okay. So, why aren't they saying Lucy on the subtitles that seems kind of strange. and. Then when they get to the house, they say a different name for her and then I think it took me probably two or three names to catch on, and that's what they were doing. I was like Oh. Okay. So they're doing different names might be a different person and might be a personification of something. So that was definitely kind of an original way of going about things that I really enjoyed. Also my other favorite screenplay moment is that there is a there's a joke in this movie that I laughed out. Loud I thought it was so funny it's such a good film job if you're a big film, Fan. There's sort of this scene that's a movie inside a movie and it's very cheesy ROM com esque. Super Not not inappropriate in the sexual sense but inappropriate in the sense of like social contract like if you did this in real life would be completely inappropriate and hurt your chances with somebody. But in the context of a wrong com, it works pretty well, it's very romantic quote unquote and then At the very end that little seen is the end of the movie ends and then it says directed by Robert Zemeckis, which I thought was so funny. I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if that little bit was actually directed by Robert Zemeckis he has various sort of like fluffy movies a lot of the Times they're very, very good I love Roberts Machias, but. That's kind of his his trait, a Lotta Times, and so I thought that was very funny. It was a good film gag. But ultimately, there's a lot to unpack here with the script. So I'm not gonNA delve into everything because I realistically have not impacted for myself but just know that it is very confusing but everything that is introducing the beginning does come back in the end whether or not you understand. So then comes the acting I thought the acting in this was fantastic. Everybody has a really killer performance that is multilayered because in a sense, they're playing different characters a lot of the times they're playing different versions of the same character at different times in their life. So it gets. Very, avangard with where they go timeframe wise which I thought was really interesting I really really like the Parents Toni Collette who I absolutely adore. She's obviously fantastic playing a frantic mother if you've seen hereditary and. The father who was played by David through this. Through lists. I don't out of. It I think it's obviously it's kind of it's probably pretty easy to pronounce what whatever who you may know by playing remus Lupin the best character in the Harry Potter series. So that was definitely a fun thing to see. They're fantastic they have to they have the most rain that they have to do. At least in the bulk of the movie, which is sort of the. Middle I end of the first act. All of the second act realistically. So they have a big chunk where they're doing a lot of different performances at different ages and different styles of Performance Toni Collette does one style at a certain point that's like an old house wife from the nineteen fifties. It's a very sort of cartoony performance that came out of nowhere that I was really. Happy to see I, definitely was pleasantly surprised by that moment. So I think Toni Collette knocks out of the park. I think she's probably my favorite I also think I. So I have Never Seen Jessie Buckley in anything I don't think. And she is. I hesitate to say lead this thing that I don't want to spoil it on but the movie is from her perspective but ultimately, it ends up not really being about her which is kind of a pet peeve of mine but even still I think she she kills it with her performance. Think she's fantastic. She has A. An inner monologue voiceover but then also her external performance and they're deeply different which I thought was really great. So she has an awesome performance. I have to say that I think my least favorite performance would probably Jesse, plum clemens. Who is the kind of quote unquote lead who the story is ultimately really about. And I thought that his performance was not bad by any means but I think that he has the least to do a lot of the other characters acting as a vessel for him. So he's kind of reacting to a lot of things or in a sense like kind of in control of things which will find out later on but you kind of get. He's just like much more secluded and quiet, and he does have some cool moments of like being much more charismatic and personable, and then moments of being much more quiet and. Solemn, but for me, I think it's just that the character is a little bit more a little bit plane or a little more boring compared to everybody else. But he still does give a pretty darn good performance given what what he has to work with as far as that sort of archetype of the protagonist who Is the the straight man in a sense as far as the production design goes there are a lot of specific props that match different things that have been either mentioned earlier in the movie or get called back to later on in the movie on that are Super Small that you might not notice I notice like a few of them. She looks at a bookshelf at one point you can kind of see specific things that that are related to the rest of the movie. So I have to imagine that there's a lot more of those that didn't pick up on all of them so. A lot of care was taken into that. I also think that the House the design of the House works really well as far as the architecture goes you get a sense that it feels very nostalgic and very welcoming and that you could have lived there like it just feels like a very kind of generic twentieth century American, Nuclear Family Type House that either you might have lived in or a friend might have lived into a familiar type of environment but it also has enough twists and turns and the way that it's shot in a lot of ways you kind of don't know where you are at any point and it feels almost like a hedge maze at certain times. So it's both familiar and inviting, and then also kinda treacherous and unknown. I- Freudian slip by saying treacherous that's a word that they say a lot in this movie and that's a word that I haven't quite unpacked as far as what it means yet. So if anybody knows or if anybody has a theory tweeted at us at GMC underscore movies, I'd love to hear you guys think of that that word for the theory or just even what your thoughts on this movie are, and then the other production design moment that I thought was really fantastic that I think was my favorite is that they drive up to the house and then they drive away they drive back to the city. At the end not end sort of middle end of the movie and in that scene, it's all snowing. So there's a huge snowstorm around them and what I really like is that when the when the conversation starts to get more intense in the car, you can see the frost on the windows closing in and you can almost barely see the outside. But then when the conversations a little bit lighter, there really isn't any frost on the windows that was a really nice touch and I think that works because it's sort of subliminal. But if you notice it, you're going to really smart and it's definitely a really cool thing to see. Cinematography is also really fantastic. It's shot in a four three ratio, which is sort of like a square. So the black borders are on the side as opposed to the top and the bottom which I thought was definitely a good choice because originally it sort of sometimes you look at four three and you're kind of it's kind of gimmicky. You're not sure what it means, but I like it. Here because this movie is ultimately about time and memory in a lot of ways, and so that type of aspect ratio feels very nostalgic. So I definitely really liked that decision. There's also some really interesting choices of what they show particularly towards the end. There are some moments with like time lapse. There's some animation in it, which I the animation I thought was great. It's very sort of fifties. Old. Disney kind of cartoon. So I really liked that everything is kind of de Saturated to, which gives you the sense of sort of this deeper inner sadness and in one scene our main character young woman the Young Woman Jessie Buckley says that she's a painter and she likes to paint landscapes because there's sort of an internal sadness or an external sadness of just the landscape, and so I think that's what they're trying to convey with the desalinated shots of the House and a lot of the other exteriors throughout it, and then another really interesting thing about the. Cinematography is that the wet? So there are two scenes in a car. There's the road trip up to the house in the road trip back and looking at where the shot compositions are during those scenes is definitely really telling. So in the beginning of the movie, those shots tend to be from the front they tend to be mostly inside of the car. You feel like you're with the characters like even though our main characters airing out some grievances in her head, you can tell there's a little more of a connection there and then on their way back home. A lot of those shots there still are the upfront shots and their shots of of their faces from from the front angle but a lot more of them are from the back I actually don't know if there were any from the back on the way up, but there definitely were on the way back down, and then there are also a lot of shots outside of the car. You can see the frost kind of closing in on them. So I thought that was a good good choice to the only thing that. There might have been too many cuts in that scene. Both of those scenes it ultimately is is a conversation. There are a ton of cuts they're. So sometimes, it can get a little bit distracting and maybe it could have been shortened a little bit but that's just kind of a personal preference as far as editing goes like I said, maybe some of those cuts could have been been gone away with I also think that some scenes might drag on a little bit. I actually don't think that that was the case like. In my I watch that I really felt like that I was really engaged with the story and the acting but I do think on a second watching might get a little bit slower and there are some things that maybe aren't necessarily I do think that they enhance the script but if they were taken away, I, don't think they'd take anything away from the story. The editing to gets increasingly more chaotic as the story goes on. So that that implementation of animation and time lapse tends to happen towards the end of. The movie. So that is a good kind of descent into madness as far as not having that happened in the beginning I also think that the voice over works really well here. So that kind of goes with editing it kind of goes with sound but I really like it sometimes, voice overs can feel cheap but I do like ads specificities some of the characters add some nuances to to their performance that they're showing. So I like a lot of that and it's integrated really nicely with the rest of the sound design. There's a big dance number in this movie and I really like movies that have dance numbers. I was a big fan of the one in shape of water. It kind of feels like a fun little break very theatrical especially for a movie like this that's much more about themes than it is about story. So the music there is gorgeous. Line of Oklahoma the musical so I liked the songs that are used there. I can't say that the score was anything. All, that memorable. It's definitely kind of tense which led led led me in a direction that I wanted the movie to go and kind of thought the movie was going to go into a much more creepy scary. Mystical route or supernatural route, and I can't say that I was disappointed because I do with the movies about and I don't think that that would have worked here. But I almost kind of wanted it to be a little bit scarier. Maybe that's because we're moving towards Halloween but I have to say the music leads you in that direction and I kind of wanted it especially when she goes into the basement at a certain point but even still it works without it and then as far as directing goes, there are some pretty clear themes of death memory and regret I also really like there's a juxtaposition of. Ending things as far as a relationship goes and then ending things in terms of your own life I think that's juxtapose really well. So kind of mimicking the ups and downs of a relationship with the ups and downs of a life. So I like that a lot I have to say the thing that I didn't like as much as that. Ultimately, our main character is much more of a vessel for the male character as it is about her I would have preferred having her be kind of her own character with agency, which she doesn't ultimately have because it kind of. Is Up to the main Guy Jake but that's also not with the movie is really about. So I think if anything, it's just a little bit misleading from the trailer and the poster and whatever it's not really about her but even still I do like how it's kind of framed from her perspective and also because it's directed by Charlie Kaufman I have I Love Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind. But if it had been directed by Charlie Kaufman, I have to imagine it would have been a little bit weirder I actually think attornal China's probably his most straightforward movie, which is really strange because it's not a very straightforward movie. So here there is a definitely some cohesion as far as direct. Intent artists intent with the script and the the directing the movie itself. You can tell that this was clearly his vision and everything was relatively done to what he wanted or at least it seems that way. So in that sense, it creates a very coherent and resonant movie. So ultimately, I did really enjoy I'm thinking of ending things I kind of want to sit with a little bit more, maybe wash it again to see how much I really liked it. So right now, I'm going to give it a soft eight out of ten. Not. My Favorite Charlie Kaufman movie had a few minor things that may be made it a little bit more underwhelming or maybe just well-made at a certain point if that's a word but overall, it is a very well done smart movie and it is not going to be everybody's Cup of tea. So if you like conclusive things linear stories, I can't say that I recommend it. But if you're really just here for some interesting themes with a creative story and some really great acting and some really clever writing I would recommend this movie for you to watch. Streaming right now on that flicks. So that's I'm thinking of ending things next up we're going to be talking a lot about Don Herzfeld, my favorite creators. So my weekly watch is his feature length film called. It's such a beautiful day. My weekly recommendation is his two short films world tomorrow and tomorrow to, and then stay tuned until the very end of the episode where I give my top ten short films of all time. But right now we're gonNA take a quick break. Want to know the latest hottest music hidden the airwaves. Be. Left out listen to. The. Golden state media concepts music podcast. On the loop with everything you need to from. Rock hiphop top Florida and we'll throwing news of your favorite artists concert and tour dates and so much more listened. No further because this is the gold standard in music podcast. Welcome back GMC movie podcast. I'm your host Casey bomb. If you're just tuning in or skipping around a little bit, I have just given my review of I'm thinking of ending things right now I'm going into my weekly watch. It's such a beautiful day, and then I'll be doing my weekly recommendation, which is world of tomorrow one and two and stay tuned until the very end of the episode where I talk about my top ten short films of all time. Right now is it's such a beautiful day. This is an hour long animated film from Creator Animator Don Herzfeld, one of my favorite creators if not my favorite creator just ever as far as film goes. I. Just got this one on Blu ray on Netflix a while ago, and then it got taken off and it kind of isn't really anywhere since then so I was very happy to be able to watch it in this way if you find some some way to watch it, please let us know I'm not. Really sure I also recommend spending that thirty dollars for the Don Herzfeld collection. It's on his website. It's this movie. It's world tomorrow. It's a bunch of this short films I'm just a big fan of him. It's always great to support independent creators and so I would recommend doing that if you're curious after this review, but otherwise, I can explain the movie to you tell you my thoughts because this is a very strange movie and it is definitely not going to be everybody's Cup of tea I watched this one. When I was probably about sixteen and a half say did not like it that much earlier? I. Didn't know whether I liked it. It was really really weird. I was not expecting what it was what it was. I was unfamiliar with Don Herzfeld at the time. So this is another movie that is very hard to explain because it's really not an ongoing narrative. It's kind of just a bunch of little snippets excerpts of somebody's life it basically follows a guy named. Bill who kind of narrates, everything that goes on of his on his life every kind of awkward interaction things that he's thinking through the voice of a narrator any goes through some sort of mental break at a certain point in the episode it's not really explained whether it's some sort of manic episodes, schizophrenic episode, but it definitely has something to do with that, and after that, it kind of goes into his family history, some of his his own background and then ultimately. His mental deterioration post this episode. So by no means, is it an easy film to watch? It's also not an easy film to understand. Again, I'm still grappling with it. I just watched it recently and I haven't fully processed everything. It's a little bit heavy, but it also is really entertaining if you know what you're in for if you're somebody who expects that linear narrative, some ongoing story with the necessary story beats the Monmouth kind of thing. You're probably not going to get that here you probably won't enjoy it as much but if you're really into sort of an interesting story, that is very weird avant-garde experimental, this is definitely for you. I'd say it's much more of an experience than it is an actual cohesive film. It's actually a couple of different don failed short films that he released throughout the late two thousands, twenty tens, and then compiled into a feature film actually might have just been the two thousands I. Think this came out around twenty twelve. So he then compiled into a short film I. Think it's like four or five fifteen minutes. Short films basically then serve the story and there are some little added things for the film to make it a little bit more of a narrative. But even still you can kind of understand that it somewhat told in chapters. It's also just a bunch of random things that happen. It's like kind of like reading a diary which I personally really enjoyed. I think that's a really interesting way of telling a story. Just little snippets of somebody's life told her this narrator some of you may even be familiar with Don Herzfeld without knowing the name. There is a viral video that went viral in very early like pre youtube like early two, thousand, three. That's a short film of his that ended up going cans and did very very well it's probably his most famous short film. It's called rejected. It's online it's on Youtube. If you're if you're curious to watch it, it's basically just a bunch of very strange sort of adult swim type kind of even before adult swim edgy comedy moments that then devolve into something even more insane by the end of the movie. So you might be familiar with that. But if you do know rejected and you do know world of tomorrow, it's such a beautiful day kind of a mix of that. It has the overall themes and ideas of human nature and pretty honestly. Profound ideas of world tomorrow and a very similar style to world tomorrow, and then sort of the edgy strange over the top absurdity of rejected, and it works really well combining those two because they're so very distinctly his style and it just ends up working here Don Herzfeld also real really only works by himself. So. He animates everything in this one he narrates everything he had different editor, but he pretty much does all of the work on his own. So it is the clear vision of Director I. Don't always like that sometimes you want some extra input but you can tell that this guy really has an idea of what he wants to say it's really nuanced it's really interesting ultimately it's just A very creative unique voice that I, I absolutely adore. So getting into some more of the specifics as far as the screenplays goes, it's so specific which then creates this universality. It's kind of a common ideology that the more specific go for a piece of media the more universal it's going to be because if you try and make it universal, it's going to be vague is going to relate to it but if you make it really specific people are GonNa, find the things they can relate into it, and here is so specific it. Might even get to the point where people find a little bit over the top or a little bit much at times. But every little thing is just so fascinating to look at the characters are so interesting and so I really like how specific he decides to go. It's also extremely absurd. So that specificity sometimes a little over the top and unnatural but it works here because of the fact that it's animated, it's not supposed to be naturalistic, and then a lot of really strange things go on that aren't really normal and so the absurdity. Is Laugh out. Loud funny. At times I found myself actually like howling at certain moments that was completely unexpected. He really has a great grasp of unexpected is kind of what creates good comedy, and so it's so crazy and so out there that you couldn't help laugh even if it is ultimately somewhat tragic. It's kind of a tragic movie too. It's a deeply deeply sad movie, but it has all these moments of levity. That adds some optimism and positivity even into a character and a world that is steeped with of this existential dread because this, this could be called existential dread the movie, and it's really all about mental illness in a way and I do like how the mental illness is not described as to what it is. They say that bill gets a diagnosis. You're not really sure what the diagnosis is, but it results in a pretty severe case for whatever it is as he begins to see visions and lose his memory. To the point where it could even become terminal. But not adding what the mental illness is ads for some ability for anybody to relate to the things that he's going on with ads for some of those more profound moments, and then it's also not really a movie about trying to. Add any sort of exposure or education to some sort of mental illness because I. Don't think that it would be good at that. It doesn't glorify it in any way, but it does have sort of all these kind of crazy moments that might seem a little bit inappropriate if it was trying to talk about one specific mental illness. But in a way, it's still kind of talks about all of it in a sense and how people respond to it whether they have it or people who are responding to other people that have it and react to it. So in that sense, it creates for a really great reflection of human nature surrounding. The movie itself also has this way of doing a story without story. So the whole movie doesn't really have a story, it's just a bunch of vignettes ultimately, there is somewhat of a linear narrative, but it doesn't. Stick to that sometimes, it goes back in time but everything is still said in in present tense, and then there's also by the end of the movie there's sort of this moment where it goes really kind of far into the distant future. But what is a story if not trying to have something to say and not having specific themes and this very much? Does that by not really having a story, but you're able to to gather somewhat of the world that is trying to build. So in a way, it's a story without story which I thought was really fascinating. There isn't really a lot of acting here that I can talk about Don Herzfeld is the one that does the narration and it's much more of A. Bill never talks. They say what bill says sometimes, but it's not said in any sort of. Inflection other than the actual narrator said kind of in line with the narrator as if you're reading a book. which ends up creating this really surreal sense. This kind of experimental world that's much more of a mirror than it is supposed to really kind of exemplify what it is to be a human. And if we're talking about the acting of the narration, it's really monotone except for in specific moments where it doesn't have to be. And I don Herzfeld voice. has this softer much more empathetic way of speaking, but it's also very assertive at specific moments and so it works extremely well for this movie in particular, it feels like both the Voice of bill and the Voice of God it. You can't separate this performance from the entire movie it steep through CPS throughout the entire thing. So it's really important to the rest of the story and it serves itself really. Well, there's also a moment that additional voices are added. That was really nice a great surprise because it's at a specific moment where you're supposed to feel like these voices might be foreign and because they haven't been in this entire movie implementing them here I think works really well. The production design and this. Kind of go hand in hand because it's animated for the most part, it's actually a mix of animation and live action. I loved on Herzfeld animation. It's very kind of crudely drawn almost stick figures, but you're able to see a lot of the emotion and because there isn't really anything you can garner from the faces or the bodies of people. Everything has to be inferred from somewhere else and they end up being ultimately a mirror for the viewer, which I think is really really fantastic. The live action here is great too because you're getting a sense of the fact that bill isn't really all there a lot of the time, and so he exists in live action sometimes sometimes, it's just a side. By side frame, but it really adds some sort of depth to to the actual image. It adds a lot to whatever is being spoken at that time I like how most of the actually all of the backgrounds realistically speaking our live action everything that's nature is live action which I think is really beautiful and it's all about kind of finding the simple joys and how we exist in this world, and so getting to see that in live action paired with the crew leader drawn stick figures. I think is really gorgeous and then all of the nature live action frames have so much light caked onto them. It's like very angelic which kind of adds this holy godly aspect to it the sort of. A theory kind of look to it, which with what the movie is about and what bill is talking about a lot of the times time works really well, and I said that the movie is kind of vignettes. So I like how the animation is also kind of vignettes it'll have these small frames in sort of a black screen at a like basically to see what's going on. So it actually the animation and that style reflects the story really well. I. Also Love how Don Herzfeld. hand-drawn animation for the most part or at least he did up until this point in his career and so because their hand drawn animations, even the still frames have some movement to it. So you can see some a little bit of movement. Every frame still feels alive even when there's no actual sort of movement or motion taking place the editing I kind of said earlier is sort of like there's chapters you get a sense of where he is in. His life, it's also very discombobulated, very chaotic, and that's kind of how you're supposed to be how bill is kind of feeling in his own head. So I like how they're the reflection of that is in the movie itself the sound, the sound design. Oh. My Gosh. The sound mixing is crazy. It has all of these naturalistic sound effects, but also some of these more surreal ones that are layered onto each other. So it creates this really dynamic sound Palette. Also, the score is mixed really well, the score starts much more classical easy to comprehend, and then it gets much more simplistic indie folk kind of dislike one or two instruments by the end, which kind of shows, the tier mental deterioration of bill in a much more minimalistic sub-conscious way. and. So then I've kind of mentioned a lot of what I wanted to as far as the directing goes he just has such a great grasp of themes and just the small things that we as people think are specific to ourselves but are really much more universal and so I really like how Don Hurts I think more than any other creators able to capture human nature in such a great way. And so this movie is Super Strange. I wouldn't even really consider it. A full like movie in a sense but I really really enjoyed it much more than I did the first time. So I'm going to give this one, a strong nine out of ten. I really loved on Herzfeld. It's not a lot of people are not GonNa like this movie I didn't like it at first it super strange. It's not what everybody's into. But if you think you would be into it. If the kind of thing that you you're thinking to yourself, this is exactly what I want. I think I'm GonNa like this. You're probably GonNa like this, and if you don't think you're GonNa like it, you probably won't like it. It's kind of. It's kind of a love it or hate it, and you basically know which one it is before you go into it. So that's it's such a beautiful day. If you can find someplace to watch it, I highly recommend. I also recommend getting that BLU ray disc if you can support some indie artists and obviously a big fan of this guy. So that's such a beautiful day stay tuned until the next segment where I talk about his two short films, world of his two most recent short films, world tomorrow and tomorrow to, and then stay tuned until the very end of the episode where I talk about my top ten short films of all time. But right now we're gonNA take another quick break. Tired of searching the vast jungle of podcasts. Nell. Listen close and here this out. There's a podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching. The golden state media concepts podcast network is here nothing less than our podcast bliss with endless hours of podcast covered. From News, sports, music fashion entertainment fantasy football, and so much more. So stop blurted around and go straight out to the golden state media concepts podcast network guaranteed to build that podcast is. Whatever it may be, visit us at www dot Jesus MC podcast dot com follow us on facebook and twitter and download on I tunes soundcloud and Google play. Welcome back to the GSM see movie podcast I'm your host, Casey bomb. If you're just tuning in or skipping around a little bit, I have just given my reviews of I'm thinking of ending things and it's such a beautiful day. Now, I'll be talking about my weekly recommendation, which is world tomorrow one and two, and finally stay tuned until the very end where I talked about my top ten short films of all. Time. But. Right. Now is to other short films called World of tomorrow and World of tomorrow to the burden of other people's thoughts I mainly going to be talking about world tomorrow. But I do think that a lot of what I say of world tomorrow kind of the same thing for tomorrow to just a little bit of a different story I think both of them are almost equally as good. I have said like the first one just a little bit better but I do think it's just because it's the first one thing is a little bit more to say. We'll tomorrow to almost just as good. Very, very, very close. And watching them back to back they work pretty well as like one movie in itself. This one is actually a little bit easier to explain the past two. It basically follows a young girl like four or five maybe her name is emily and she gets contacted by her. Okay this part is difficult to explain a clone of herself far in the distant future, and so that's sort of how. Aging and works in the future. So she then gives birth to herself at a certain point. It's a little strange but that sort of the world they're trying to build and this future emily. Emily. We know them as emily and emily prime emily prime being the little girl and so emily brings emily prime to the future and tells her all about her life so that she can get a memory from emily prime before emily. Earth dies in some way or the other, and so that's kind of the premise of world of tomorrow. It's a very kind of expansive fi premise. Packed into a fifteen minute short film and the sequel still has emily prime but it has sort of a rejected clone go back in time and bring emily to the future, and then also they go into her head and it's kind of a little bit more all over the place a little bit more experimental in that first one. So I love these movies. I saw this one. This is something that I can actually recommend for anybody. When sort of theaters are more back in back up and running, and hopefully, the Oscars will still be in the kind of similar way that it has been in the past, but we'll see every year. The academy puts out a short film package. That they'll send a certain theatres, usually sort of independently run theaters or smaller theatres that play much more. Academy type movies they'll send out these sets of all five. Short films nominated, and then a couple ones that weren't nominated that might have been sort of honorable mentions in a sense and there's the animated ones the live action ones and the documentary ones me and my dad, and a few of my friends have been going for the past couple of years I. Think it's Super Fun to see some really original content from creators wouldn't get that spotlight otherwise, and so world tomorrow was actually one that I saw when it got nominated back in two, thousand sixteen and so in that I saw it in theaters. It blew me away and now it's my favourite like thing ever. If I would ever commit to a tattoo. It would be world of tomorrow. I, just think that the animation is beautiful. What the story is trying to tell is beautiful and it really really resonated with me. So let's start with the screenplay. Let's talk about the movie I kept reiterating just a second ago. It's super super original. It's really quick it's well paced it's fifteen minutes but you kind of feel like It goes by. Kinda too quickly but you also feel like you've been in this world for a super long time like you're really familiar with the future that Don Herzfeld has created because the world building is so strong. So it feels like it's too quick. It feels like you want more of it like it doesn't overstay its welcome in any way, but it also village you're so familiar it's so well written that you've been there for so long and you understand it fully. So that's a that's kind of the exact thing you want from a movie you wanted to feel like it's too short because you want more of it, but you also want to feel like you know it really really well, and that's that's ultimately really good writing. So the world building is super expensive, but it's still really grounded and it's really character driven. It only follows two characters evolves emily, emily prime and it's mostly emily talking doing her explanation of the world. But. You really get who these characters are by their interactions with each other and their interactions with the world. So emily prime is this young girl who everything is new to her everything is exciting to her. And Emily is not only like a warn down adult but she's also warned down adult that's gone through generations of the same memories and the same experiences and doesn't really have like the same mental capacity that a normal person would have because you've gone through this cloning process and so she's even more worn down and so it's the exact. Polar opposites of each other but are ultimately the same character and show Kinda two sides. I would say of every person at every stage in their life I mean I guess not when you're younger, you may not have that sort of. Worn down a pessimist more pessimistic but I think everybody has these two sides. They've got their childlike sign. They've got their maybe. I hesitated maybe more realistic side. That's a little bit more downtrodden a little more pessimistic but you wanna have them both kind of imbalance and that's ultimately what this movie. Is trying to say from a character perspective. and. Then from the world's perspective, the whole movie is really all exposition but it works because it's not trying to tell a story within the world. The world is the story. And because the characters are reacting to it we we can only understand who the characters are based on their reactions. We have to understand the world, and so the exposition doesn't feel like it's exposition because it is the movie explaining everything and it's explaining it to a child's. That's a very perfect audience vessel to figure out what's going on. I also think it's absolutely insane that in this fifteen minute movie. There's like. Five or six. Super High Concept sci-fi ideas that could have been made into two hour feature films that just get mentioned to have the idea of what? The future is and actually it's probably more like at least ten ideas, there's the idea of. A clone that didn't get the right mind transplanted into it. So it's just a body then gets put up as an art exhibit to see aging in real time. There's one where emily opens up a art exhibit of anonymous memories which first of all crazy, that's awesome. That's so cool. So I love all the ideas that are expressed in here and it really does enhance his everything and it's just you can think about it for hours because it's just hinted at and you get fill in the gaps of what that actually means and what's the message is behind it are. So then we go into the acting there's really only two characters. This is one of I. Think. This might be the first movie that Don Herzfeld has not acted in. That is his own so It's to actors. One of them is new piece Winona may who plays emily and then animator friend of his who had never acted before named Julia Pot plays emily wait. The first one was emily prime news emily prime, and then at Julia Pot Emily. So. There's really only these two characters and basically the process around getting young Emily Emily Prime was Don Herzfeld visited his family in Scotland. That's where they live. I've done a lot of research on this movie. You can probably tell because I've been sitting here for four years and I'm obsessed with it. So. He went to visit his family and he basically recorded his knees during all of just them playing around. And created some of the story around what she had said. So she's not acting. She's just being a kid. It's all of kind of the childlike wonder that she has all of the enjoyment that she has and that then is fed into the movie. So it works in a really natural way. And then Julia pod is giving a performance that is. Both. Sort of robotic like it's supposed to be kind of this. Plane Typical has a little bit of a voice filter on it. So it feels like it's very kind of electronic, but it's also not inaccessible. A lot of robot voices can be like. You don't feel any empathy or you don't get any sense of emotion there. But for this performance, you still get that sense of like deep sadness and loneliness that kind of comes across in a lot of what she says. So it's both an empathetic and. Very wooden performance which I think is really miraculous for somebody who's never acted before and it just both of those jokes to pose with one. Another creates a really fantastic back and forth report in every scene. Then we move onto production design slash cinematography. The visuals are extremely unique. So this is the first movie that Don Herzfeld had used for digital. So it's all digitally. May, and there's a lot of sort of strange looking digital backgrounds, but they're very very colorful I think they're in a sense of look at Children's book they're very flat and colorful. So it Kinda mimics that because it seems the eyes of a child it also the thing that kind of stands out to me is that even though there's all of these crazy eccentric backgrounds, each one fits for the scene it's trying to convey. So it might be an environment that we're somewhat familiar with. So there's like. The Moon and Mars, and there's like a an exhibit or or appear but all of them are sort of hinted at. So you get this sort of strange looking background that you can kind of infer for what it actually is. So there's there's still a rhyme and reason there's still a reason behind each background even though it is sort of this top look of it. So. For example, there's one scene where emily is talking about her boyfriend that she had at one time and they're seemingly looking over like a peer of some sort but it's really kind of this mix of just blues and oranges and they're standing on just a thin line but you can kind of infer what it is and that background works really well there even though it's Somewhat strange and it wouldn't work in another scene that might take place on another world or it might take place in like an art exhibit. That's not going to work there. So even though there are these kind of over the top environments they work for whatever environment they're trying to convey, which is really really great. Don Herzfeld really likes to do things in chapters. So the editing is Kinda like that too. There are moments where the screen will go black and there's no sound. So it's like all right. Cool. We're moving on to the next chapter. It kinda serves away to create these sort of three act structure kind of it is definitely more structure than a lot of his other movies are but. We get that sense of chapters sense of closure for each section of the story by that break, which I think is really nice. Give some time to breathe. We also get some time to breathe and each scenes. There's a lot of things that happened in this movie but each scene we get to hear the story is the kerogen react to the story and the pacing moves really quickly but we're never moving too quickly from one story to the other so. If a concept or a story doesn't really deserve all that much time. It's just kind of hinted at. Then we get that we only get it for a couple of seconds. So that's kind of more in the beginning I think where she's explaining what the future looks like as a whole and then later on when she's telling her own personal experiences, we spend more time with it. which I think is really important because we get understand both the characters of emily and emily prime through the reactions and through how emily is describing things in a longer period of time. This is something that is kind. Of similar to beautiful day I, think the Don Hartsville is a really great grasp of sound. A lot of his movies are kind of make or break with sound design because the visuals are beautiful. But you kind of need to have some sort of texture in the sound to really feel like it's a world that is being built here, and so each space has natural environmental sound. So they'll go to one scene where a character is put into like a big expansive field. As you get the win, you get the rustling grass. There's also a really great moment. It's kind of a gag where it's like. An example of somebody getting transported under the earth and getting crushed in the rock and that sound. Sounds like you would imagine that sounding like so it works really well, and then there are also some more abstract sounds for example, the outer net, which is where kind of the opposite the Internet, which is where emily lives and you get sort of this constant buzzing or humming or much more electrons that vary throughout it and they're pretty minimal, but they're always there. So it so make sure you know. that. This is something that is natural to that environment, and so it creates a larger soundscape. So with the directing, there's so many facets that I find wonderful here the story influencing the visuals, the dialogue influencing the story. The performances are so fun. It's also just like. I love the idea of this childlike. and seeing the eyes of a child, it's also like adorable to see her react to things in certain ways. One of the first line she has his I had lunch today, which is. Just such a poignant thing to say for a four year old. It's like, of course, you had lunch today. Thank you for telling me that. So I really love it. This I really didn't talk much world tomorrow too. But a lot of these things sustain its just things in the little bit and you go into the ideas of memory and things like that, and so I would recommend watching both of these two movies. These two are both on video they're like two or three dollars each I cannot recommend them enough. It's my favorite movie of all time. It's so fantastic and I, just love the vision here I really like what is trying to say and All the vision and the visuals it's also beautiful. It's so well done. So world tomorrow. You guessed it gets a strong ten at ten. Of course. It does it's fantastic. It's amazing. It's miraculous. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous. Of. Is Everything. Okay. So That's world of tomorrow, and that's the end of our major reviews, but we're going to move on to my top ten short films of all time because I can't really think of another time I'd be able to talk about this. Now I'm about a short film on this episode and I do love short films and the people haven't seen some of them. So this is that and I'm super excited. But right now we're going to take our final break. TV has changed over time streaming has become the new norm. That's why golden state media concepts television podcast. Had I to the world cord cutting wants to be on the lube of what's hot and Netflix or if it's not a preference what about original shows in Hulu, we've got you covered join us as we filmed the bland and talk about movies to stream and what show you should be binging. This is the golden state media concepts television podcast. More. Welcome back to the GMC movie podcast. I'm your host Casey bomb. If you're just tuning in or skipping around a little bit, I have given my reviews of I'm thinking of ending things. It's such a Beautiful Day and world of tomorrow, and since we just talked about a short film that it'd be a great time to talk about others. So I'm going to give you guys my top ten short films of all, Time. Is obviously a pretty non extensive list. I have not seen like every short film ever. These are just the ones that I've been given the chance to see and I want to give you guys the opportunity to go check them out I. think they're really great. It's also not kind of a ranked list. These are just some of the movies that are much more memorable to me. Ones that I really enjoyed whether I, wash them in film school I saw them in that Oscar packet or whatnot kind of in any way. These are just the ones that I really enjoy and really stuck with me because some of them are kind of hard to go back to I can't really watch them. So these are just the ones at really resonated with me and I can recommend to you guys at least for your enjoyment. So I up is technically an advertisement which I hesitate to put in here. Don't really want to do that but. I really love this. It is considered a short film is directed by Spike Jones. It's called welcome home. It's a basically it's an ad for Apple. I think it's a like A. Home Pod. pod homes that even thing does it exist anymore just something that I guess all your devices go on. So the whole point that it's not really about that it's kind of a glorified Music Video Spike Jones has done music videos in the past. But it starts FDA twigs who is a singer and a dancer and it has an impact song playing in the background. But the reason that I put on here is because the visuals are gorgeous they built this entire. Apartment. Set that moves around with FDA twigs who's the dancer, and so it looks like things are extending and she's extending the House and when I I watched it, I was like, Oh cool. Those are some really great visuals but apparently, it was all practical. It's an actual set that's moving along bad to capture it at the right time, which is amazing. So I really think this one is great. Also put a little bit of a backslash year. Add something else because this one is kind of an advertisement kind of a music video kind of a commercial. So that doesn't count I'm going to put. Spike. Jones's one of his first short films called how they get there. It's a three minute short film I think it's a student film if not mistaken, but it's really creative. It has a really fun twist ending, which is one of the kind of telltale signs of fun short film. So I really like that one I can recommend it kind of in tandem with welcome because they're both done by Spike Jones who's one of my directors, and so that is number ten. Number nine is a movie that I. Have Not been able to go back to because it was in the Oscar packet that I saw i. think it was in the same one as world tomorrow I also don't think it was even nominated. I think it was in the honorable mentions, but it's called the loneliest stop light it basically like details this stop light that's in the middle of this rural road and it Kinda shows it in different stages of its own life in the context of America and the people that are surrounding it. And people no longer going to it anymore it's narrated by Patton Oswalt, which is kind of really fun. It's directed by Bill Plumpton, and so I think this one is really great I've not been able to find anywhere. It's probably on video to pay for it is haven't been able to go back to it. It's one that I just wanted to recommend. Kuwait? Don't think many people have heard of it. It wasn't nominated. So it kind of got lost in the shuffle but as far as that year other than wolves tomorrow was the one that really stuck with me that I really remembered so I love this one. Number eight I'm GonNa put another Don Herzfeld film even though I've been talking about this entire time I'm going to put the one that got him really famous. It's called rejected it basically is a An example I think it's probably one of the reasons humor is what it is these days. It's very similar to what kind of like. Are What adult swim humor is an adult swim kind of pioneered this other avant garde style of comedy that has trickle. It's way until almost everything else particularly Internet culture and so I think this is kind of the beginning of it all or at least one of the examples of the beginning of it all and so I think watching it just for that context as a really kind of creative ending. It's very quotable. So I think rejected is super iconic and deserves to be on this list, which is why it's number eight. Number seven is called lights out. You may recognize this one because there is a feature film version of the same name that is an offshoot of the short film but the short film got kind of viral in a sense on youtube and video. It's by David F. Sandberg, and his wife Lana Lawson and it basically is a small vignette of a woman going to sleep. And every time she turns the light out. There's a silhouette of somebody and which turns back on it's not there. So it's very creepy. It's very scary. Friend told me to like she'd text me and she was like wash the film right now and I was home alone and I watched it and it scared the crap out of me and I was like lost my mind. I haven't seen the live action one I've heard live action one isn't bad. But this one was never as far as I'm aware never intended to be a proof of concept of proof of concept is basically a short film that is showing off what the intention is for the feature version. I don't think that was the case here. I think it was just story that husband and wife wanted to do and then got picked up and I think James One is the one the producers who is a huge name in horror and so it ended up being a pretty big deal but I really like short film. It's really creative. It has a really great jump scare. So I think it's a really fantastic one and that's why number seven. Number six is another one that I can do a little bit of a backslash I would be remiss if I didn't talk about the Pixar shorts, I do love the pixar shorts because it's giving more independent creators the chance to tell a more independent story that isn't about kind of selling their work and not about trying to get a big budgets put on to this movie. So it's getting a ton of exposure. It's giving voice to a lot of other creators. So that's one of the reasons I love that, and so I'm going to tell you my two favorites you might have already seen them. My favorite one is. I think it's so well done. Animation is. Realistic and kind of cartoon. It's absolutely beautiful. It's a master class in nonverbal storytelling, and then I also really liked paper man. I think pyramid is one of the earlier ones. It's really really cute. I also love to the animation. So even though I loved Three D. Animation Piper I also really like to D. Animation. So that's why I'm going to put those two both on the list. If you haven't seen him, I assume there on Disney plus or in some sort of like short pixar short packages or whatever. So I would put those on the list I would check them out. So. Now we're getting into the top five number five is some of you might have heard of, isn't he was Martin Scorsese this his short film in in College, and it's an example that I've seen multiple times in different film classes of how to make a really interesting. But simplistic short film. It's called the big shave. I'M NOT GONNA. Tell you what happens because if I told you what happens it would spoil the whole thing. It's just kind of one thing that that goes on, but it's really kind of grotesque in a way. But it's not for shock factor. I think it just makes a really compelling short film and I think it's really great. Number four is a proof of concept I? Don't always love proof proof of concept film if they're done well, they're done. Well. So this one is called monster. It's by Jennifer Kent. You may recognize her because she went on to direct the Baba Duck and this is a proof of concept for the duck. It serves in a similar way as the horror film I love the Bobby Doug I think it's a great movie. I would probably I probably like it better than short film ultimately, which sometimes happens with proof of concept because it was always meant to be a feature and not a short film. So this isn't really like one scene from the book. It's kind of taking the idea of what the Baba is in comparison and compiling it into twenty minutes short just in case I guess that movie never gets made. But it's a little more of a simplistic way of telling that story but it has the same themes as the the live action live action feature film version. It also has the same character dynamic with the young son and the mother and the the fairy tales sort of grim. storybook vibes and I also think the there's more jump scares in this I think too and I think they're pretty effective in this and I also really liked the simplistic but memorable design of the monster that gets put into this movie with such a low budget. So this went obviously had a really great team attached to Jennifer. Ken is a fantastic director, and so that's why this one is number four. Again, these are not ranked in order this order that I put them in but I want to have them all on the list so Undermine that entire statement number three is a film packs many surprises into it. It has a really interesting character dynamic, but then it also has sort of this higher concept idea at large. So this one is called spider is directed by Nash Edgerton. It's a really great example of how to create a fascinating story that grips you in and then has. A shocking ending a really. Dark Edgy Stinger ending type thing it's also of this dark humor short film at the whole thing. So I really like this one I don't think it's quite as famous big as it should be. So I highly recommend this one I believe it's on Youtube I would check it out. It's called Spider. Number two is another proof of concept but again I think it's fantastic and I have not. So Monster I have seen the feature same with lights out or lights out I have not monster I have this one I also have not it's called Thunder Road it is directed written and stars Jim Cummings. So it is a one visionary director. Of, clear vision throughout the entire idea, and it's basically a police officer giving a eulogy. At his mother's funeral, it has all of the emotional beats that you would want. It's like fifteen minutes. It's one shot. It has ups and downs. It also has some really kind of complex themes for so short and simple of of a short film. It's got ideas of what loss and grief and then it goes into concepts of masculinity. So there's really a lot to unpack your the performance is absolutely fantastic cinematography looks great. So I, Love Thunder Road and I'm very interested to see the feature might review it one day or another. But thunder road is a fantastic short film and I highly recommend it, which is why it's number two. And then finally, the last one on this list is a short film that isn't really all that popular other than maybe the Youtube seen I don't know how it did on the festival circuit. It's just one that really stuck with me. I saw it a long time ago. It's probably one of the first short films I ever saw, and it's always stuck with me to this day when somebody says, Hey, what's your favorite short? I'm going to say tomorrow obviously, I didn't put it on this list are talking about it. But this one that is always going to pop into my head as being one of my favorites it's super simple, but it's also got some fantastic visual effects. It's got a story that wants to tell and that one is called brink by Christianson and it's basically this concept that within the next couple of hours, all gravity on earth is going to be lost and then I explained why which is great for short film no need to explain why. And it follows one guy who's trying to find his girlfriend or lost love or whatnot so that they can be together before everything ends and so it kind of is a non honestly unexhausted premise but one that's been done before it's not all that original but it's a new take on it I, really like how the visual effects are integrated into it and it's Just. One that's really stuck with me all these years I. Think it's really well done. Performances are great the ideas super cool to watch. So I'm going to recommend bring to you. It's on Youtube. So go check that one out and check out all of these I. Think Short films are a medium that not a lot of people get into but you're into them. They offer some of the best storytelling, some of the best visuals and performances and ideas. There's really some fantastic creativity. So fantastic stories better than some if not a lot of feature films coming out these days. So go support your local artists, your local filmmakers see if you can find a local film festival that's where a lot of short films are going to be. Once the Oscars come back see if you can check those out because if you guys are film fans and you're a fan of this show, I, think you're GonNa like some of these short films. So that's Today's episode. I had a lot of fun little weirder episode but nonetheless, some great movies that I'm always happy to talk about. So as always, thank you so much for listening to the GMC movie podcast brought to you by the GMC podcast network. If you could please remember to subscribe to the show if you haven't already and leave us a nice review because that really helps us. Also, if you could follow us on facebook twitter and Instagram I have been your host Casey bomb. Thank you and have a good one. You've been listening to the Golden State media concepts, movie podcast hard of the Golden state media concepts, podcast network. You can find this show and others like it at www dot Jesus MC podcast dot com, or download our podcast on itunes stitcher soundcloud and Google play this type in GS. MC. To find all the shows from the golden state media concepts, podcast network from movies to music from Sports, ten entertainment, and even weird us. You can also follow us on twitter and on facebook. Thank you and we hope you have enjoyed today's program.

Times Don Herzfeld Charlie Kaufman Netflix emily prime Casey Toni Collette John Malkovich Jessie Buckley GMC director New York Jesse Plemmons don A. Bill Robert Zemeckis
#243: The Mind of Charlie Kaufman Pt. 2  I'm Thinking of Ending Things

The Next Picture Show

1:13:07 hr | 11 months ago

#243: The Mind of Charlie Kaufman Pt. 2 I'm Thinking of Ending Things

"Hello next pitcher show listeners. Recently, we've told you about a couple of different PODCASTS and websites. You can try out to get some insight into the behind the scenes processes that go into making movies, television and other art. Here's a new recommendation for you slates podcast working, which asks creative people how they do their jobs. To Nana's hosts Ramana lomb Isaac Butler in June Thomas talked to Jordan peels composer on get out and us about what goes into composing music for terrifying moments or as they talked to American pickles costume designer about how she dressed two different. Both played by Seth Rogan. Learn how a writer outlines a novel how a museum curator chooses art how a publisher works to amplify black voices and how youtube creator learns to talk comfortably into the Camera Lens listened to working from slate every Sunday on apple podcasts, spotify or your podcast of choice. Do we. Keep the line between the past. Believes or someone passed. Enter take possession of living. We may be through with the past. Is Not through with us. Welcome back to the next pitcher show a movie of the week podcast devoted to a classic film and the way its shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tasha Robinson here again with Scott Tobias, and once again, we have a film spotting Svu and dissolve veteran and crush writer and editor. Matt Singer here with US substituting in for Absent Friends genevieve Kaczynski and Keith Phipps welcomed the Scorch Matt. Thanks for having me back. Guys away. Now I'm old me Oh now I'm young me which Myemma, I? Guy Too many me's and I can't tell which one is the one that we should be talking to are any of these US smarter about film than any of the rest of them. Let's hope. So otherwise we are in for a long conversation usually are in our last episode, we look back at Spike Jones being John Malkovich. The Surreal Nineteen, ninety, nine feature about love among famous actors and body fees is also the first produced screenplay from Charlie Kaufman at the time TV writer after being. John Malkovich became a modest hit Kaufman went on descript the Movies Eternal Sunshine of the spotless. Mind adaptation, but then he branched out into directing his own work with two thousand Schenectady, New York Twenty fifteen's anomalies, and now the new film I'm thinking of things starring Jessie Buckley as Lucia, a young painter who's contemplating breaking up with her solicitous boyfriend jake played by Jesse, plummets even she's headed out into deep farm country with him in a snowstorm to me his gawky awkward parents played by David vs Toni Collette except wait is any of that plot description actually true were given several different names for the Chia and several different job descriptions when she sits down to dinner with Jake's mom. And Dad, things keep changing her hair enclose subtle details like a bandage on his face and eventually much larger things. Jake's parents age and his relationship to them does the basement she's not allowed to enter. There's a dog never stopped shaking itself and she keeps pushing to leave the house. No one will acknowledge her everything keeps changing. What's going on Kaufman is adapting a fairly celebrated novel by in read and it's a book that plays into some coffins favourite preoccupations, surrealism questions about identity in the self desperately quiet men who largely live inside their on minds and the breakdown of order that. May explain some of the films, more literary pretensions like the scene where the Chia, or whatever. We're going to call her recites lengthy poem by FM HD and claims it as around but it doesn't fully explain the ending as the world opens up into a literal dance number and stage song for out we're going to have to talk through the movie. It's possible to Suss out what's going on and I'm thinking of anything's, but it helps to know the book's plot and it helps to look to that title for clues like so much of this movie, it's more than one thing at once. Support for this podcast come from CDW and Dell. Technologies. At cdw Gee we get the migrating your agency to a hyper converged infrastructure is challenging. DECAF got gotta do it to want to do it but got to do it. Slowdown friend CDW JEEZ experts can help simplify your transition from legacy to hyper converged infrastructure with Dell technology solutions that offer speed and agility. Have you done it is it done yet? Why isn't it done yet rt orchestration by cdw. People who get it find out more at cdw, dot com slash del Tech. In yearly. Much about you. told me so much about both of you to and game. Tells me you're studying quantum psychics Physics. There's something. Profoundly wrong. Yeah. I came endings him. Off. No it was me I tell you I was play my own head. If it wasn't screwed onto my head, I feel like. Seeing. Seeing them after their. Thank you stay here. Excuse me. You don't have to go. To go where forward Our guys. How did you take I'm thinking of endings well, I think, I, know for a fact that there's GonNa be a little bit of contrast on this podcast because I quite liked it at home hatfields I actually do. But I like you quite a bit. I've seen it probably like two and a half times now. The half time. Just trying to be trying to sort it out it is it is least accessible film I think by a pretty significant margin, which is really saying something just saying council meeting. People talk about it. I. Think someone had mentioned how it's like, what if the whole movie where like the last third of? New York which is true in. So you know you Kinda have to adjust yourself to what it's doing. I mean another comparison I heard made to it was like it's it's like an Alan Rene film it's like a the L.. E.. Last year Marian bad type of experience, which is also pretty true. It's just fascinating compelling to me and I felt like I wanted to kind of keep going back. To figure it out and to kind of get into the mood of the thing, which is really what it's all about here because this is so much about trying to find a way to express interior life and exterior fashion, which is so much of what coffin does anyway and very much what he does here and I was grateful for it's a more dour film than he's that he tends to even by his standards but also was grateful for little moments of humor and absurdity that he packed in there is well in surprise and transcendence. So I I found it a very rich text have very difficult film but a film that I. Found rewarding so matt. Scott says that you have to adapt yourself to this film. Do you want to adapt yourself to this film? When let's put it this way when he said he'd seen it two and a half times already I started to sweat profusely. Of subjecting myself to this movie, which you know everything that's got says about it is true in the comparisons he makes our I think very fair and apt, and it's a very skillfully made movie and well put together and I was miserable watching a lot of it and The. Thought of a subjecting myself to it again is. Since chills up and down my spine I. I think in the first episode someone used the phrase quarantine moment and I don't know if I've seen a worse piece of quarantine meant than this in terms of not in terms of it being bad. But in terms of being ill suited to my mood and what I want right now and also the venue I having a hard time sort of like breaking this movie apart from its Netflix's meanness and the fact that you know if I had gotten to see this movie in a movie theater I, think the odds are are pretty good. I would I don't know if enjoy is the right word but I think I would have gotten more. And I think I would have been happier wrestling with it seeing it at home i. just I don't know it was not the best place for me to watch it feeling like we talked to in the previous episode about how claustrophobic movies that I liked Charlie Kaufman's can make me and this one when I'm already feeling kind of trapped and Claustrophobic it's almost overwhelming and I'm not by nature claustrophobic person that's not really a that I generally experience but I did. This movie. I don't know I envision, and this isn't necessarily a Christmas my. Just envision a lot of people turning this movie on on Net flicks after eighteen minutes being like I am GonNa Watch anything else I'm going to do anything else with my time and I kind of empathize with them because if this if I wasn't doing this for my job for this and I might turned it off to. And by the end of it I, I feel like I got more out of it but. I. Feel like calling it. A difficult film is almost an understatement is just confounding and challenging and it just doesn't give a lot back. You have to really work for you have to adapt I guess as Scott said you really you have to really adapt for this movie. So I guess my question there would be I mean there is a literal Claustrophobia to it in that a significant chunk of this movie takes place a small car in a snowstorm and the character the Lucia or Lucy various other names character is literally trapped she's not driving she doesn't WanNa be going where. She's going she gets later in the film driven somewhere. She doesn't WanNa go by someone who won't listen to her. So like all of that and the house stuff where she's ready to leave and she keeps saying, let's go. Let's go and no one will listen to. Her is very like literally narrative claustrophobic. I'm curious if you felt that same feeling of oppression and Claustrophobia when the physical spaces open up, but you're still kind of dealing with the mental implications of being stuck inside a certain person's body and perspective I mean, I. Don't think you really ever offered a whole lot of relief. It is tense I mean I it's a wonder. It's kind of a thing. I feel like with Netflix's almost these like levels in which they make these movies I mean because there's so much that they put on that service that. So kind of disposable and they look look the same but then there's just a craving on the company's part to. Have Tours on board the tourist responses like I am going to take that ball and I'm going to run with it and produced by most impenetrable work yet it's like. So in that sense, you know Kaufman takes advantage in makes the kind of movie that maybe he couldn't have made anywhere else which is relieving and it is it is really resistant to home viewing and I think matters absolutely right about that. It is not sort of like I'm casually flipping around Netflix's and I'm clicking on. This thing and I'm actually going to pay attention for two hours ten minutes every minute of what you feel quite intensely. But I think again, if you make the adjustment to it, the atmosphere of it is so tactile in new. I mean that Claustrophobia is there and you know just the snow globe there's sort of this oppressive sort of snow globe that the driving through is a really vivid the house where she meets Jake's parents and they're in the they're so strange and funny and tragic. Of those are so in the high school because really just foresee there's really for long stretches. There's driving there. There's the house there's driving away from the house and there's a high school and that's the movie But I think I think those spaces are all rendered with tremendous patients obviously in require a lot of patients but they're vivid I. Think. We have not even heard your opinion what do you think of it? Well, I'm not going to get to that just yet that question was intended for marijuana here Matt to answer to it since he's the one. Stuck within this movie and now stuck within this room with US asking questions I mean it's this is one of those interesting films and it is an interesting film even if I didn't really like it where I'm listening to Scott, describe it and it everything he says is true and you can see and feel the amount of care that's been put into this movie and like when I say I've felt claustrophobic and I, you know like I understand why anyone would want to. Turn off the movie especially at home I mean it's it's almost like the movie is daring you to turn it off. It is pushing prodding you all along where you are trapped in this car with these people who don't seem to like each other very much and making just the most kind of all rambling strange conversations that take these bizarre detours. But again, like that is the conceit that is designed to me I, guess where I struggled was it was like I don't mind. A movie. That's GonNa make me feel claustrophobic that wants me to feel anxiety that wants me feel discomfort to to feel the isolation in these characters and their scenario and I don't I don't mind working for it or adapting or whatever you WANNA call it. But I I guess I want something back and I I think that's maybe where the movie kind of fell short for me. It's like I wanNA care about the characters and I really never did at a certain point the characters you know the characters like we already said they. Have all these different names they mutate before our eyes they get older and younger in vanish and reappear, and they change forms they the further away got from any sort of like decks ical reality any sort of thing that I could kind of cling to it to me it just became kind of exercise and it was an exercise that I could sort of admire the craft of and appreciate what was going on. But at the end of it, I just didn't feel like I got much more out of it than that and it was. Kind of hate to harp on the netflixing. Thing too much. But you know the other thing it kind of reminded me of in some ways was like the way people describe like Netflix TV shows where it's like well, if you sit through the first six and a half hours. Right, around the midpoint of episode seven, it gets really good and that's you know that was almost how I would I could imagine someone describing this movie where it's like. Well, the first part is really long and not much happens, but then they get to the house. That part is really long and not a whole lot happens that when they get back in the car and you really begin to see the whole arc of this thing. Will that part is really slow to but then at the end in the in the high school, you'll really begin to understand how it all fits together and you do, and there are some lovely little notes at the end but it didn't feel like an awful lot of of a journey to a discovery that I didn't feel entirely worth it to me. See I think I think you would have been the journey for you? I would have thought was to get to that forget Paris joke I thought that was like that's that's the payoff that drop in that set it I absolutely like burst out loud. What I got to that part of the movie because they'd been so dry and absurdist before then suddenly. Forget Paris comes off up and David. Villa's calls billy crystal a Nancy. Just like this is absolutely brilliant. Tasha. Are you ready to tell us what you thought of this film I mean I think ultimately if if it's a flat scale, I'm probably somewhere between the two of you. Ultimately, my feeling was I thought it was a visually beautiful movie I was engaged with the conversations even as I wasn't terribly engaged with the characters. I. Mean I think Matt is absolutely right in saying that their functions rather than characters you know their interactions past a. Certain point are representative of ideas but not really representative of people anymore, and that's in keeping with Kaufman's questions about identity and his interest in the life of the mind and his big symbolism in his Meta story design. But on some level, you know Ebert, said that movies are machines for generating empathy and this is expressly a movie for generating no empathy. It's expressed the a movie for expressing a complicated and fairly abstract idea and want I like. And abstract ideas they don't feel emotionally satisfying they don't feel emotionally gripping so that last act at the school where everything breaks down into an extended Oklahoma ONA's with a fantasy ballet expressing characters like inner longing and desire, and it's snowing inside the high school, and then eventually it gives way to a literal performance of a song from Oklahoma. I thought of that was beautifully shot but just not very engaging on an actual character level. At that point, we've kind of a second, the physical or emotional existence of the character that the movies spent the most time working on and establishing. The tension that we've set up is she's in a place she's in a relationship. She doesn't think she wants to be in she doesn't see a future for it, but she's putting herself through all of these things for it, and then the movie just sort of let that go there is a huge interesting irony I think in the idea that the story is as I understand it and particularly from reading descriptions of the book that we can talk about this is a huge spoiler I guess. But the fundamental action of the film is that she doesn't exist jake doesn't exist. They're all their characters, imaginary characters in the mind of this aged and very janitor who is dying and experiences this sort of like psychotic breakdown in a way before he dies. And the idea of these characters not being characters means they're not people, and at that point, it becomes hard to relate to them and one wonders why we've spent so much time with them. I had a little bit of the same problem with anomaly. Saga. In that, you spent so much time on this specific humanity of these characters but they're really just kind of representative on idea and in the end, the movie does come back to Lisa but before that it kind. Of abandons both of their humanity and your left in this symbolic space that just isn't really about people anymore. But I feel like the performances give you that though especially Jessie Buckley, it's interesting. That is a composite of so many different things and everything that she is is borrowed from other. You know she has a palm that's not hers in paintings aren't hers and you know she's quoting at length from a Pauline Kale review of a woman under the influence it's not hers. It's so yeah. So the character is not real or is this composite of other things and yet? Jessie Buckley the actresses so powerful in the role, she's the one who kind of takes the reins here and kind of grounds, the movie and some recognizable emotion. I mean I it sort of plays with those ideas of artifice and construction, and then realness they I mean there's some real emotion in this movie, there is real emotion, but ultimately, it's the real emotion of a character that you barely get to now and I think. There's something very clever and very smart and very ambitious in building this story. Basically, you never get to know the janitor, but you know him through the figments in his mind you know you know he's insecure because Jake is perpetually trying to impress the Lucia character. He's perpetually trying to offer her things and comfort her and like even in his own fantasy of himself, even his own fantasy relationship even with this woman that he's invented that he keeps kind of losing the details honor changing the details on he still can't. Quite. A woman that's attracted to what he has to offer attracted to his intellect attracted to his obsessions I. think There's a realism to that. That's tremendously sad and I think it's very interesting to kind of puzzle pieces of the movie to see what we can assemble about the real character in the story from all of these artificial things but at the same time. I like a puzzle can only get me so far in art and emotion, and I'm seeing a lot of the a lot of people saying the same things about ten at right now it's like if a movie is exciting and ambitious and visually engaging, but you don't care about the characters at all or you can't engage with the characters because they don't fundamentally matter if the entirety of the focus of the movie is on. Can you piece these pieces together? Can you read the filmmakers? mind is a satisfying experience, and in this case I enjoyed the experience of it. I can't see myself returning to this movie. I can't see myself volunteering to watch it again the way I would watch being John Malkovich, eternal sunshine, or is Schenectady New York yes. I guess that's the difference I've seen two and a half times and and it just because it's just A puzzle I do feel compelled to try to figure out and it is well realized world that I don't mind spending time in is as oppressive and difficult as can be I like being in the car with those two those two crazy kids talking about cavities in. In poetry see I didn't see it as a puzzle. Could tease out a solution and I think Tasha had some interesting things to say about that in terms of like. Piecing together, the person who's theoretically imagining all of these things I guess the sort of the solution or the answer that you could be finding here. But when I was watching it, it felt to me more like someone had given me a piece of furniture to assemble from. Ikea. Without giving any instructions and I was sitting there going Oh this is a lovely part but I don't see how it fits to this piece over here and I don't know how I'm going to connect it to this one over here, and even while I was admiring the craftsmanship pieces I wasn't really seeing how they fit together and I was more than anything. I was just kind of frustrated that I was the one. Having to put it all. I was having to do so much work and I guess, I don't I'm not saying that I need a movie with an instruction manual necessarily but I think Tasha and I are actually closer on the movie that maybe I'm maybe I'm sounding too negative. But like every a lot of finding myself agreeing with a lot of what she was saying right down to the fact that you know even as you were saying, Scott like the Jessie Buckley performance here is is lovely at. And very true. It's like following her in the beginning of this movie, and then by the end of the movie, the quote unquote revelations or the moments of insight or whatever they might be in that high school you know that her character is the one that is the one that seems to most kind of vanish and it's like if we have invested anything in her. You know she's barely onscreen. She's sitting in the audience as Jesse. Plemmons is performing his big number on the stage and you know it's like if she is giving the most interesting performance, that's the one that's the least involved in that ending in some ways and so to me that was another kind of. Frustration or disappointment, and so yeah again would I see myself getting more out of it if I went back and watched it again and wasn't so focused on the mystery or the plot or trying to. Understand what was happening I'm probably I would do I find myself wanting to go back and experience it. not, especially, no silly here's a thing as I was watching the sequences in the house I kept coming back to David Lynch's eraserhead the whole interaction with the parents and the way everything keeps shifting the dreamlike logic of it. All just reminded me a lot of kind of the nightmare visions of David Lynch and those. Just. Really oppressive stories that he tells where nothing seems fixed in place and everything does seem like a dream but as the film went on particularly at the high school, I started to think about Darren Aronovski mother and that movie was so polarizing and I feel like this movie lives in the exact same place where you can be impressed with the performances you can be impressed with the the puzzle aspect of all you can be impressed with teasing out the meaning but. Because there is no center, there is no kind of fixed point in space for the characters you have to not be there for the characters in the story you have to be there for the larger puzzle and I think some people are going to be in some people aren't just as they weren't with mother it's a clear F cinema score. Lack of a theatrical release as it not a particular lovable film and film they'll a lot of people are gonNA latch onto that aren't really self selected Charlie Kaufman, enjoy irs but you know good you know sometimes movies are made for those made for different types of people. But I, I do like the David Lynch comparison I mean I think and I think there's a kind of this Americana aspect to it to that was also. It's something that Lynch's attracted to that some of that the iconography of being on a farm and with all of that entails something that we might see a Lynch Lynch movie to mother was definitely on my mind watching it to the Serbs divisiveness the. Trapped in this farmhouse with these eccentric people, you can't leave. I think the reason that I enjoyed mother a little bit more than this movie is just because I don't know that movie got so wild and frenetic and crazed, and it was at least kind of if people don't change the channel or turn off their netflix's watching it at home, it's the kind of movie that could easily low you to sleep with those long. Car Rides through the snow. It's dark Movie that I could imagine loved ones of mine. I'm saying this is why a lot of love and respect my heart like this is a movie that would put them to sleep. You know parents I know and relatives of mine they would just say Oh yeah. We can watch that and then you'd look over like forty minutes in and they would just be. Doing the doing the dip in. For sure low pressure. You know even the moments of quote unquote excitement You don't really get that Cathartic kind of those eruptions that are at least in mother so that even if it is kind of all one giant puzzle or allegory there or the characters aren't quite real or fully realized or dimensional, there's at least some you know some. There that this movie is all kind of it's not an. It needed a sad person in the landscape though it's just. That whole exchange again I mean he could still write that kind of thing and just So. Funny of just. People knock comprehending. Eddie the other than you know our that's like a photograph of. Kind. Of blowing my mind a little bit Scott because I didn't necessarily see that as a mission statement for this movie but that is exactly what Matt Meyer complaining about here is the the last act of the movie takes the sad person out of the landscape and replaces them with the sort of vague image of a sad person that you don't know. This ad person, which is sort of what she says where we are. Looking at the landscape perhaps. One of the things I thought I was watching this movie is just I don't know what's important here probably because it's Kaufman everything is important but I feel like you could go through it and pick out a dozen seemingly random lines from a lot of these conversations and take them away as a big thesis statement i. get the feeling that this is one of these fractional films where everything has significance and particularly everything has significance in terms of the kind of the unseen character, the janitor character, the character whose experiencing all of us, I feel like every moment that we have. With the parents probably represent something that happened to him with his parents as they aged you know is he was interacting with them like from youth to eventually their death because he's an older man and they're almost certainly gone I feel like all of it is probably significant but is there satisfaction ultimately in picking out the significance of such I'd like opaque images I think it just really comes down to your personal mood, your personal tastes and like how you interact with cinema yeah I. Agree. Though do have this thought much like you know if you compare him to somebody like. Alan Rene that what's GonNa look like in ten years or twenty years the scope of coffins career, and it's going to be one of those texts I think that come back to you because it is so full of moving parts and those parts look like. discombobulated pieces of ikya furniture. But I can see this is a movie that launched. A thousand. Doctoral papers or something, and just has that feeling of of a rich text that we're GonNa be unpacking for quite some time at least I feel compelled to do that if it felt to me like just a very large itch that needed to be scratched, which watched it more than once for this podcast because it was like, wow, this is something else in m not I don't know what it is. So I need to watch it again. Sometimes you have that feeling like I don't know what this is I don't want anything to do with it, which is another response, but that's where I stand. So what you're saying Scott is it's not bad once you stop feeling sorry for yourself because you're just a pig or even worse a pig infested with maggots. Pretty much. Oh. God I forgot the animated stuff See there's all kinds of stuff for that movie, an animated maggot-infested pig how can you not love it? Everything else in the me, it's deeply deeply fanatic. There's a lot to talk about left in this movie, but I think it's all going to be a little more interesting kind of bringing it into focus with being John Malkovich because these movies have so much in common while seemingly having little in common. So we'll be right back after this break to talk about the connections between being, John Malkovich and I'm thinking of ending things. A. Supposedly Fun things you'll never do again. Read Watt. It's a book of essays by Foster. Walls. I HAVE NOT A. Book of essays. I haven't read. The should we should find someplace. Tump these looking to note. At the couple there's all sticky. He's got this say about television. Pretty people tend to feel. Pretty people. Tend to be more pleasing to look at. The non pretty people but were talking about television the combination shear audience is in Quiet Psychic Interport, twenty images and. Start the cycle of an answer is pretty much his appeal roads of viewers on sense of security in the face of gazes. That's from. The Essay. Interesting. He killed them so Yeah. Yeah everybody knows it. Now, it's time for connections when we bring these two films together and talk about all the things they have in common. So here's the here's the thing guys. Recently, Charlie Kaufman came out with his first novel seven, hundred pages, aunt kind handful of people reviewed it, and I got an early copy and I was very excited to dive into it because I thought you know here we get to see what Charlie Kaufman does when he is not in any way constrained by production budget or values where to put the. Camera like what is he going to do with this infinite tapestry that he has and for the hundred pages that I read before? I put it down. Basically what he did was wallow in the depressive mind of a delusional racist sexist obnoxious solid cystic asshole who just goes on and on and on about how basically the world hasn't kowtowed him enough. The world hasn't deferred to him enough. He's not loved in the exact generous way that he wants to be by the world and yet with like every single page, he proves that he's entirely unlovable. And for the first time ever I started seeing this as the Kaufman theme the Kaufman character I started seeing how all of his works are kind of defined by this look at the sad delusional man who thinks he's the most important thing in the world can't escape his own head in the case of I'm thinking of ending things that feels very. Literal I mean we are literally stuck in the perspective of a like this old sad dying man who's trying to put together a fantasy life for himself to sustain himself. A can't even hold that together and being John Malkovich were were wrapped entirely around the the needs and the drives of Crag who is in a marriage that he's bringing nothing to he is in a relationship with a bunch of pets that he doesn't care about he meets a CO worker and immediately decides he has to have her and he has nothing to offer her. You know he's the equivalent of Scott Pilgrim when we recorded that commentary track work and we're hopefully going to get edited and released. Soon, we talked about the fact. That, he has nothing to offer Ramona flowers except a stale joke about the origins of Pacman and it's it feels like the same sort of thing here like he has nothing to offer her until he finds the magic portal. So what is it with Charlie Kaufman and like sad delusional men who want everybody to bench their whims maybe these are personal. It'd be too slight Charlie coffin but I mean I think he has a personality, these other types of characters that he he puts forward these relentlessly self deprecating portraits of potentially who who he thinks. He is maybe his worst image of himself is what ends up on the screen and gets deconstructed in the harshest possible light I mean that that's kind of where these films get their their darkness where these films get their absurdity in their humor to kind of go to the the far ends of depression in Narcissism and pretension, and all of these other. What we've come to know as the Charlie Kaufman character, I mean, it's hard not to read an autobiographical element into it. When the prime example of it is a character whose name is Charlie Kaufman in the movie adaptation like all the things you're describing our president in that character and that character is Charlie. Kaufman now it's not strictly accurate in the sense that he has a twin and all these things, but it's difficult to not read him or at least his fears neuroses about himself into these men when you see something like that. So yeah, I mean again, I don't know whether it is this is who he is or if it is, this is who he fears he is and. There's an awful lot of general anxiety and fears and neuroses in all of his movies that are not just limited to that that I think perhaps we're being more generous to Charlie Kaufman and I do think he's an incredible writer incredibly smart and funny person so I don't want to be like, oh, he's just he's just this terrible schlub whose managed to make these movies like you could charitably or more generously call it. You know soul baring about his fears of how he is or who he seems to be or how he presents himself more than it is his true nature or or how other people see one thing that I really latched onto with both these moves in with coffin and. is his interest in interior already in life of the mind in how the films are a way of giving very clever expression to the abstractions of of that interior it's all in the concedes his films are so have these huge hooks to them. Being John Malkovich certainly does of this portal inside. John. Malkovich's had to be can't get was like Weirdo. Hollywood. The sense like his movies have these unbelievably big. not this new one. Of anything that would surely doesn't have much but the reason why he's like he's able to use these ideas to. Get into almost like into metaphysics in a way I mean just to kind of just take the things that he's thinking about finding expression in those things through plots where everything's external and amy I'm thinking of anything's is a little different than being John Malkovich and more like the next to New York that you do feel like you're almost going deeper and deeper inside the head of these characters particularly. Jesse Buckley's character. You're already start at such an intimate place. You already start with her narrating and telling you how she feels about how thoughts. Thoughts about how thoughts nobody can fake thought or something like that that she says, the beginning I mean i. just you know you feel this immersed inside this person inside these characters and That's extremely important to Charlie Kaufman's work. It's critical that he find some cinematic way to express interior, which is usually the job of a novel. It's not usually something that films do well, but Charlie Kaufman is Kinda cracked that code whether you think he cracks the new one is another question because it's an adaptation of a book that he didn't right but it's something that he is constantly doing his movies. Yeah. I think it's interesting that I mean the the fundamental setup of anomalies. is basically seeing the world from inside the viewpoint of a pretty banal man who just doesn't see the humanity in other people everybody looks and sounds a to him as he's concerned and eternal sunshine is about literally traveling inside somebody's head and seeing his panic as he starts to lose things from inside his head this he tries to hang on to what's important there. So like looking at that particularly with these two films I think it's really interesting that the first several times people travel into Malkovich's head. He is not doing anything that would be interesting to anybody. You know he's eating toast he's putting water in his Coffee Cup before he leaves, he's polishing down his. Own Eyebrows he's taking a shower. He is going through a cadillac like all of these things that are incredibly mundane and are so exciting to everybody who's getting to experience them because they're a different point of view because they're somebody else's body somebody else's world somebody else's life and I think that that's interesting. Really subtle way of really smart and telling observation iconic gives the film I mean it would be so easy for that movie to be about people falling into Malkovich's head while he's banging gorgeous starlets while he is a meeting the Paparazzi while he's hanging out with extremely famous people while he's on stage in the middle of getting a huge standing ovation like all of. These things that stars get to do, and we're not seeing any of those things through his eyes through other people's perspective. It's all just about how even the most mundane thing becomes exciting. If you get to get out of yourself for a change, I think that that's really neat and then in I'm thinking of ending things were similarly we're spending so much time theoretically like in this man's head and we're experiencing all of his anxieties instead of experiencing his his mundane day to day we're experiencing his disillusion and the slow disintegration of his mind, and it becomes so much more interesting than you can imagine like the day to day of being a janitor being it's funny to. Hear like when you hear descriptions of these two movies that are so different in. So many ways that there are a lot of these interesting kind of echoes of one another I mean just even the the very idea when we boil down, I'm thinking of ending things at the end when we see that essentially all of these characters are not who they appear to be. That is kind of a connection to being John Malkovich where we have people who I look like John Malkovich but I'm actually John Cusak inside the body of John Malkovich and that's very much present in this movie in that all of these characters ultimately in I'm thinking of anything's alternately appear to be. You know either fragments of this janitors, personality or fantasies of this janitor or mouthpieces of points of view of this janitor, and so that's an interesting. Another interesting thing that they have connecting them when I wonder if Kaufman just spends a lot of time worrying about getting outside his own head. Because his characters. So often are either trapped in heads, which literally happens at the end of being John Malkovich or are escaping into other heads or being liberated from other heads through often through artistic expression as much as anything else. Think about this. One thing I think about it to assume that all writers feel as why certainly do is you get tired of your own voice it away and you want to transcend it in somewhat it's like I really wish I could write like this person. Writing. Not Ferociously nodding. I WANNA see the world like that person does that incite God I wish i. had that insight right and that's part of the appeal of movies in general is getting to see the world from the perspective of other characters I mean that's one of the key charms of going to the movies is to see the world through the eyes of another character it's he just has. Made that aspect that's kind of buried subtext store that's kind of intrinsic in all movies. He is kind of made that his kind of one of his main focal points one of his main pieces of text he makes it liberal I mean sometimes very literal in the case of some, these movies were describing where it becomes very much the you know the hook of the movie. It certainly isn't being John. Malkovich. See the world through the eyes of another another's. It plays into another kind of idea connection I. Think we should get into which identity and identity shifts identity theft as you have. That is kind of getting outside of yourself. When you're able to slip like that from one personality to another, we see Lodhi baking the transformation. She makes you we see Craig becoming the type of artists that he wants to become. That's liberating in those movies in thinking of anything, it's not fantasy necessarily, which were you who's a fragment of made up things a lot of ways in the case of. Jesse Buckley's character in the sense that the poetry that she's presenting is not around in the art that she's presenting not around the film criticism she's presenting his own, but it's still done the last kind of exciting. To, have the possibility of being able to be in another form to take on aspects of personalities that are not your own to be able to transcend the body and all that other stuff. I think there's a yearning almost at the center of Kaufman's work that kind of comes out in some of these films that can very much desire for kind of freedom and liberation that you're describing that comes with switching to another perspective going into. Someone else's head to me. That's like directly connected to the overwhelming claustrophobia of everything else in movies like that. We were talking about on the last episode in the seven and a half floor and an something we didn't mention I. Don't think and I'm thinking of anything is the whole movie window box. It's four by three. Every single shot in this movie feels more claustrophobic than at theoretically could if he had shot at wide-screen in some way. And so you already like even in the moments where they're not confined to that house or that car the frame never gets very wide and the characters are almost always shown in close up. So there they just seem confined by the frame of the movie itself. So I, think these two things the kind of that liberation side and that Claustrophobia side they go hand in hand in, they're very president and both movies I think both of. These movies also when you're talking about that desire to escape, you're also just talking about that desire to connect like both of moves are very much about loneliness and in being John. Malkovich, everybody kind of tries to escape loneliness through sex through connecting to each other physically even if they always have to be in John Malkovich to do it, they're all looking for a sense of connection I think the most interesting expression of that though comes down. Leicester eventually deciding to spend the rest of his existence in Malkovich's had with like a dozen other people. He talks about how lonely he is because of his imaginary speech impediment which is executive assistant has foisted upon him, but he seemed so happy in the end to be in John Malkovich with all these other people for most of US hell. Is other people. You know the idea of eternally living in a tiny space with a dozen other people sounds like I said, well, like no exit but also just like hell as far as I'm concerned sounds like the ultimate in Claustrophobia. But for the the person in this movie for all of these people together, it's togetherness it's connection it's an end to. The loneliness, they can't escape, and then in I'm thinking of ending things I mean this movie just drips with loneliness. You you get the impression that everything that's happening in it is happening because this the central character, this janitor character is so alone and can't connect to anyone no one will listen to him. No one cares about him. So he's developed. This elaborate interior order to him and it expresses itself through these elaborate fantasies again about Romance About Lust and love and longing and a connection and violence all of these things that are just a way of expressing into himself like all of these rich and vivid things that nobody in his life wants to hear that nobody in his life can relate to. And everything you're describing now connects to another sort of connection that I was really picking up on watching them this week, which is this sort of kind of fascination. But also this like terror about aging and bodies and the breakdown of bodies and I'm thinking of ending things the characters you know in a blink of an eye, go from being middle aged to being on their literal deathbeds and You know I guess that could be a commentary on how time seems to slip away from us so quickly. But when you look at that in conjunction with being done now Quebec there, you have characters like physically in the case of Doctor Lester like. Trying to escape from mortality by jumping from body to body when they get too old like it's this fantasy of not having to get older and being able to remain eternally young or at least you know avoiding the the last bit of of aging you know he's not necessarily young when they take over body their forty four years old or whatever the thing is but just this fantasy of of not having to get super old not having to die being able to live forever and not having to worry about whatever is is happens when you die I, think that's definitely another thing that connects the two movies and is a perpetual source of. Fascination of Charlie Kaufman that I'm sure we can all think of examples from his other movies as well for sure I. think that's really well observed and I think it also chains nicely in Sioux kind of further iteration of that connection. You know as people's bodies are breaking down as they're getting older as their minds are breaking down either under outside influence or because of age everything in the movies is fracturing and both of these films end up being about breakdowns about disjunction where everything falls apart in a really surreal way. Malkovich like going into his own mind and experiencing the Malkovich averse like that's what people remember about the film and it's Hilarious but. It's also just the sort of this terrifying of narcissism where nobody in the world really exist six up to him and you see that exact same idea iterative out again in anomaly saga. But as far as I am thinking anything's the whole movie is a breakdown in the whole movie is missile disillusion of mind and watching it progress from a relatively stable fantasy to kind of an environment where everything is a reference nothing entirely make sense it's all beautiful up, but it doesn't. It doesn't all hang together in a linear or logical kind of way I think both of these movies are about breakdowns of the structure of I'm thinking many things are so hanky. Unusual in kind of an interesting break from what he he usually does his I think about like you know how like Animation movies all kind of just ultimately have a what do they call it like a Rube Goldberg type of ending right? You know. Where everything just kind of kind of syncopated and there's kind of a chase or something, and there's a lot of action going on I mean that's basically how Charlie Kaufman scripts work like they get to a point where things just go haywire in happens in being John Malkovich with there's a lot of frantic action of that. There's a ton of frantic action and the end of eternal sunshine at significantly New York of course gets completely insane I in its final bit but here it's kind of like if I mean I guess you could say that the last fourth of the film, the High School is its own special sorta crazy but it Doesn't progress in the same way as is other from behaves a little differently which is again one of the things that I find intriguing about it that doesn't have any kind of predictable structure to it or escalation that you necessarily can anticipate. It's it's is its own beast I. Feel like we'd be missing out if we didn't at least note that these are both movies about relationships that are falling apart and where a kind of like clingy desperate man hangs onto a woman who is not into the relationship in the same way that he is like even leaving aside Craig's instantaneous lust for maxine and his utter willingness to portray lobby for. The connection between Craig and lobbies from the beginning. Seems they seem like roommates it always feels weird to me in that movie I'm when we get to the point of them being married because there's no chemistry sense connection and they don't quite seem old enough to be having that that movie thing. I mean to some degree that real life thing. But you know the symbolic movie thing of we've been together too long of a spark is dead I this new sense that there was ever a spark there and in the same survey, find yourself asking what Lucia and jake ever had in common. But that becomes part of the taxed as you keep getting different views on how they got together in the first place as the story keeps breaking down and. Maybe it's about her inability to express yourself and step herself or maybe it's about her actual contempt for him or maybe it's about something else entirely the narrative keeps shifting it's hard to tell but either way that male female relationship in both of these movies is just so fraught and so full of all of that loneliness and longing in breakdown we've been talking about and pretty much every other Charlie Kaufman movie that I can come at the moment as well. He really hasn't done I mean his one really romantic movie is about, how is a good thing to live through a break up? Hold onto memories of relationships that don't work. That's the most romantic film that he's made, which is kind of amazing because this, this would not rank for. As far as This would this would rank on the list of all time worst date movies no matter what you think about it. I could. I could see to some degree I feel like any movie that gives you something to talk about after the movie is potentially a good date movie but yes, sure not a an upper. It's sure not a movie that you go home and make out after unless you're just trying to avoid talking about the movie anymore. Well, being John Malkovich is streaming on Netflix and can be rented or purchased via digital outlets. It is also available on criterion DVD and blu-ray. Things in early Netflix exclusive, we'll be right back with your next pitcher shower. Finally, it's time to catch each other up on films or film related items. We've seen in the interim since our last podcast, we call this year next picture show in the hopes, it will put some interesting choices on your radar in keeping with a Charlie Kaufman kind of like Meta, theme of the night I'm going to ask me hey me what the world has been good for you lately. Usually. We don't make the post go first on these, but I wanNA talk about a different Charlie Kaufman film and it just seemed like the best transition point. It is entirely possible that anybody listening to this does not need to be told to see Schenectady New York. It is possible that you either have an you hate it and right now you're laughing at me or that you having you love it you don't need my recommendation but it just. It such an unforeseen film compared to turn sunshine compared to being John Malkovich. It's always felt like an under appreciated film filmed me and to me it's the film that kind of most clearly and thoroughly expresses the Charlie Kaufman mentality the first time I saw this movie un- unlike error absent. Co Host genevieve like I'm not a movie crier but this movie made me cry and it wasn't because of any of the emotional aspects of the film it was. If, you can believe it because of the structure there are very few films that make me cry because the structure is so like clever that in some way I consider kind of like fundamentally. Insightful about the human condition Schenectady. New York Stars Philip Seymour Hoffman as a playwright who embarks on this like ridiculous outsized quest to create this art installation that kind of becomes in a way his whole world maybe the whole world and the movie is just kind of a process of him falling down the rabbit hole of his ambition of his own creativity of his own desire to express art and to me there was just the way that it unfolds captures so much about both how easy it is for artists to fall into their own naval. How easy it is for artists to get lost in the art and how there is a degree to which no art is ever really going to accurately express real life everything that said in I I'm thinking of ending things regarding the difficulty appreciating art that doesn't have somebody standing in at telling you how to feel I feel that all of that is expressed in Schenectady New York in much subtler way through just the attempts to create this outside ambitious art piece and never really be able to to get it under control to to grasp what it's for. Or what it's going to involve because the attempt to create real life within an artwork is. In fundamentally impossible you know life is big and art is small and like the connections that it makes can feel big but it only ever really captures like fragments or parts or aspects of life I. Loved this movie. It's got Catherine Keener in it again, it's always good to see her it's got so many of Kaufman's kind of obsessions and functions again, including the sad man who wants the entire world to kind of bend over backwards and do what his ambitions say that it should and I've of imagine that revisiting it now would be pretty bitter sweet because. Miss Philip Seymour. Hoffman. But I just never think that there's a bad time to revisit Schenectady New York and of course, it's a on all of the usual streaming services. It's pretty accessible these days it's tastic. It's one of those definitely grows on repeat viewings in just Kinda. Grateful that Charlie Kaufman and they Seymour Hoffman got to work together because of course, those to have so much in common I feel like Philip Seymour Hoffman is played that type of character the Charlie Kaufman type so often so they actually do it is great and I think there's kind of a thing with two key in in adaptation in particular that the is revealing of. Process over the artistic process and the difficultly you can think of ending things, but it's hard to actually put an end to what you're what you're doing to put a conclusion to the artwork that you're working on and so it just keeps building and growing and becoming becoming this this unwieldy thing that you can't tame a think it's fantastic mad have you seen it or do you have any thoughts on it? It's a good movie. But. I will say, don't I guess jumping back a little because I did promise people would get into the title of I'm thinking of ending things that we didn't I. You're right the Schenectady. is about someone who doesn't know how to end things arguably, I'm thinking of ending things some about somebody who Doesn't know how to enter relationship. But at the same time is representative of somebody who is ending his life and doesn't exactly know how to go about doing that. Now again, everything in the worlds of Charlie Kaufman's people is falling apart and I. Think if you look kind of the range of you'll find a lot of people who have troubles with closure you know Joel in eternal sunshine is where he is because. He was thinking of ending things by cutting someone out of his life, and then he couldn't seal the deal basically even if you don't think I'm thinking of ended things is the Best Charlie Kaufman movie it's the Best Charlie Kaufman title because it could be the title of all of his movies. You literally call any of his movies I'm thinking of ending things and it would be appropriate. I think you're exactly right on that. Scott I think you're thinking of beginning things by telling us a different movie. Sure. This is all freely room but I I had a chance to revisit the nineteen sixty three. Paul Newman Movie Hud recently and very strongly recommended because again, it's like every other movie I've seen in the last six months it is a pandemic movie. 'cause it's about sick cows, diseases, cows on a ranch. But what was really interesting to me about it in I think it's very interesting about Paul Newman. As an actor like here is a person and this is nineteen, sixty three. This is one of the most. Beautiful Charismatic Stars to ever grace the silver screen and he was determined to push back against that as much as possible in spent career playing. The rascals. Sometimes you know in films like Butch Cassidy I guess are the staying. But here he's just he's an anti hero he plays a guy who is Is, a womanizer sleeps with other men's wives who betrays his father who's very salt of the Earth who was terrible influence on his nephew who? Who has a very tortured relationship with their housekeeper and to behaves dishonourably from the beginning and yet there's complexity to the character and there's vividness to the look of the film. This is a film that was based on a Larry mcmurtry novel. I can't remember the name of the novel but any case it's beautiful to look at Geelong, how a shot in black and white wide-screen the won an Oscar for it. I think it's worth revisiting. Just you know is a really interesting movie and just a good example of a star you'll pushing back against their image and trying to bring layers of sort of darkness and complexity to a face that everybody is inclined to love Hud. Why nineteen sixty three loom. So large in our the next picture show imagination right now, the whole, the throat because Lord of the flies was a another black and white film from nine hundred, sixty three wasn't. Let's funny that you would bring him another movie about somebody. Pushing back against their image to you. Being John Malkovich night I do my best. See you see now suddenly, Hud doesn't seem completely out of nowhere. I feel good about it. It's all. It's all I would watch it with the Hustler to hustlers nine, hundred, sixty one and also black and white. Also him playing a character who is deeply deeply flawed. So watching both it's all connected. All Art is one art. All ambition is all about the pandemic. Every single damn film is about the pandemic. What about you, Matt any is already pandemic related entertainment for us Yeah. My mind works as a good pandemic. Movie to doesn't have any sick cows but I think. The message I don't. Yeah. Sorry. But it I think the message is certainly timely and It's welcome and my move is. I know what this film is. I'm finding this description hilarious. This this movie is most welcome right now is bill and Ted. Face. The music, the third film in the trilogy. I'm sure it was always planned to happen just this way I guess, the the writers, the original writers who was planned maybe they wanted to make a third one for. Taken it's taken them awhile and I? Guess the the benefit of that is I think that they've stumbled into a really. Nice spot for bill and Ted, which is you know in the in the first movies they have their so young and innocent, and they have been told by prophets from the future by George. Carlin that their music is going to change the world, and of course, we now find them thirty years later and it hasn't because how could it really and so we get to see bill and Ted has kind of middle aged. Same guys but you know things just haven't quite worked out hell hell. They wanted they haven't changed the world and brought about Utopia and it's just. Not. To be too personal but it's a relatable relatable physician to be I. Guess to to feel like you're getting older and maybe you haven't achieved all the things you wanted to achieve when you were younger. And it's also a very funny and sweet movie. They kind of do this lovely thing where they they were able to bring back all the things you enjoyed in the first two movies without really rehashing them. You know you you. You travel through time you see famous people of history the grim reaper is involved, but it's not a simple rehash of what they did before and in terms of it as a quarantine quarantine meant or as a pandemic viewing. You know I think where the movie arrives at in a lot of ways is not surprising the solution to the problem that bill and Ted have in this movie, which is that Basically. There's a some sort of. A cataclysm that's going to occur in the length of the movie. It's almost a real time movie. If they don't finally write the song that's going to fix the world that they've been prophesized for all these years to write. And what you comes down to is this kind of suggestion on the movies part that regardless of whether one song could magically fix the world if. People tried to help one another that maybe that is the kind of thing that could start to fix the world and right now that's a i. feel like is beneficial to my own psyche and it's I watched all three movies. This week I had never seen bogus journey before It's really good. It's just as good as the verse movie and I felt like this one is just as good as the other ones. It's very welcome entry in the series and I, I'm sure it's playing in movie theaters. I. Saw it on a screener I. It's going to be available for rental or maybe in drive ins I think it'd be a really fun drive in movie if you have a drive in by you or I would definitely recommend renting it. and seeing it at home maybe enjoy it with a beverage or two would probably be a very Bodet shis way to enjoy it. Up. And Delivers more than I expected, it would and and you know and and connecting it to I'm thinking of ending things there is a fair amount of talk in that movie about time and time moving through you as opposed to you moving through time. And I. Might. Be Repeated Verbatim and bill and Ted face the music is it lightly more profound way dude but it's also kind of a Meta movie I mean on some level, the idea of villain Ted travelling through time meeting different versions of themselves literally trying to steal the idea for the song from their own future like trying to create something and not being able to get a handle on what they want to create knowing that they have the capacity to create something important but not being able to get their these all feel like really strong Charlie Kaufman themes and a lot of the. Movies. Action comes down to how much they love their wives and the fact that their wives are kind of feeling disaffected present disconnected from them, and there's a lot of kind of the body horror about getting older too in the in this movie as well like there's some. Yeah I think Charlie Kaufman would really relate to seeing all the old man makeup wear over the course of the movie as well. Oh, my God pollock we've cracked it wide open dylan ten three is secretly yet another Charlie Kaufman film. Do you feel like Jimmy Stewart might enjoy the? Yeah the Most, excellent Dudes, why'd you? Break down to its. Core. What you know what they are, Scott. Wild stallions. A lot of thoughts on villain Ted and I don't want to follow up on that any slight bit and all maybe we'll talk about bill and Ted a later when more people have seen it, maybe people will have some feedback about that film. In the meantime, I'm just going to see the stage. Jimmy Stewart as one should own deserve as are more I should say Outgrow. I can read you tell me it's your show. I'm just a guest, your your Jimmy go to Washington they need you there. Well that's it. For this edition of next pitcher show our next pairing will come out. September twenty second and twenty ninth Scott You WanNa. Tell me what's coming up next as parents. One of the effects of quarantine is that your children have very little access to people other than you. So you have a lot of control over the inputs they get their day to day life. Now, as a responsible father, I would never use the opportunity of fuck with their heads but not. So the parents and our next pairing. The New Miranda July movie kajillions air. Evan. Rachel. Wood's stars as the only child of a pair of small time gifters played by Richard Jenkins and Debra winger. All she's known her entire life are the schemes they pull the stay afloat. But her worldview changes when a fourth and more normal person played by Gina Rodriguez enters into the picture. The idea of parents who cruelly limit their children's point of view calls to mind Greek Director Yorgos Latham owes two thousand, nine breakthrough dog tooth. The three young adult children and dog tooth are kept penned into a country estate and terrorized by parents who monitor them. So closely, they've invented their own vocabulary words. In both films once a window to the outside cracks, just a little chaos ensues. If you WANNA play along at home could Jillian air is coming to theaters in a limited way on September twenty fifth but will be on Vod, a week after that dog tooth, which we'll discuss I is up on criterion channel among other options in the meantime would love to hear your feedback on this week's discussion of being John Malkovich I'm thinking of ending things Charlie Kaufman in general bill and Ted Three. And anything else film related you'd like to talk about we want include your thoughts on future episodes. You can leave a short voice at seven, seven, three, two, three, four, nine, seven, three zero or email us at comments at next pitcher show dot net, and we may read it on a future episode of the show finally before closing out this week's episode Matt Singer where can people find you and your work I'm the editor and critic at screencrush dot com on twitter at met singer. Think that's about it anywhere else to find me. A lying in a heap of remedies. Jersey docks you on the. I wrote a I wrote a spiderman book you can find that. His fighter man, you can find that on various book-selling platforms. What is the title of this book that they can find? It's Spiderman from amazing to spectacular the definitive comic art collection fantastic rolls off the town. Scott to my, where can people find you these days? You'd you can find me on twitter Scott, underscore tobias. Mostly. grouse about horrible thing is that things are in the world and then and then you can find my work at the New York Times the ringer vulture guardian other fine outlets job you. Tasha. I am on twitter at Tasha Robinson I am the film and TV editor at Polygon Dot com where you can occasionally find me writing about film you can find. Our Co host Keith Phipps Writing About Film at Vulture mel magazine, the Ringer and many other fine outlets. You could find him on twitter at. K.. Phipps three thousand, our producer genevieve is the deputy culture editor at vulture and she's on twitter at genevieve. Koskinen. You can stay updated on the next picture show by visiting next picture show dot net via twitter at next pitcher pod. And via facebook at facebook dot com slash next pitcher show you can contribute to our Patriots and get bonus content patron dot com slash next pitcher show, and if you haven't subscribed show on the podcasts already please consider it were so lonely we're striving every day for connection our minds are disintegrating it's making us go to very Meta places so we want more listeners we want. More prominence and apple podcasts. Descriptions are an important part getting there while you're there, we appreciate every rating review. Every thumbs up helps us find new listeners and keep our sad man lives going. Thanks to Dan the Snake Jake's for his assistance in producing this podcast. The next picture show is proud to be part of the film's fighting family of PODCASTS. Please tune in next time. GonNa, Leave. Outside. Myself, with Ri-. Give me. Too.

Charlie Kaufman John Malkovich New York jake Scott High School Jesse Buckley Netflix Lucia Jessie Buckley CDW writer Claustrophobia US David Lynch Dell Tasha Robinson Schenectady Seth Rogan
I'm Thinking Of Ending Things And What's Making Us Happy

Pop Culture Happy Hour

22:26 min | 11 months ago

I'm Thinking Of Ending Things And What's Making Us Happy

"In the Netflix film, I'm thinking of ending things. The plot is easy to follow a young couple played by Jessie Buckley and Jesse. Clemens drives through a snowstorm to the farmhouse where plemmons character grew up they have dinner with parents played by Tony Collect and David Phillips then they drive home. That's it. That's the movie simple, right? Wrong. This is Charlie Kaufman movie and that means things are trippy and. dreamlike and just plain weird from the jump safe to say that what you take away from this movie depends a lot on your tolerance for Kauffman esque navel-gazing and your willingness to go along for what turns out to be a deeply strange ride. I'm Stephen Thompson and I'm Glen Wilton were talking about I'm thinking of ending things or are we on this episode of Pop? Culture. Happy hour from. NPR. Here with me and Steven from her home in. Brooklyn is icy. Harris Asia. And also joining us also from our home in Brooklyn I'm sensing a theme is film critic and writer Monica Castio. Hello Hello Okay. Now, we did set up what happens in this movie in that intro in admittedly very broad strokes we didn't even begin to approach what this film is capital a out because I think as we'll see, that is very much open to discussion. It's a difficult to talk about without giving away much of what makes it so Charlie Kauf many. So here's the deal we're going to start by talking about General Impressions, overall themes whether we liked it then. In and we will let you know exactly when we're going to pivot to a spoiler discussion where we attempt to grapple with are various theories of what the Hell's going on in this movie and what if anything at all it? All means okay. Let's start with the issue. Would you think? Well. There was a lot of discussion about this film on twitter and I think there's one in particular that sort of sums up my feelings about it comes from a broadcaster named Sarah Marshall End. She responded to a critique of the foam about how another user did not understand what was happening. She called it a movie to pretend to like if you're dating a guy who's studying film and bully. I relate to that sentiment. So much as someone who herself went to film school and was surrounded by types of people who love these types of films I really wanted to get into it and came away decidedly mixed I. Think I fall harder on be decidedly mixed in I don't ever really want to watch it again spectrum but. They're just so much going on which I shall. We'll get into this territory of it, but it does seem like one of those films like deliberately obtuse apparently none of the cast members even totally coffin himself said, he didn't lander set off. The movie was about according to one profile of Jesse plummets in Veneer Times. You. Come away from it. I can away from it feeling yeah. I don't really know if you know what it means and maybe that doesn't matter but I wanted to appreciate it more and. I had a lot of issues with it. So yeah, decidedly mets decidedly mixed. Okay. I was kind of mixed on it too in a different way because I hated this film absolutely hated this film right up until the moment that I started loving it Monica. Would you think? Yeah, I, guess I'm maybe that film school guy but I really liked it. Even though like it kept me nervous for I. Don't Know How long even after the movie ended and I, I kind of joked about it on twitter as well. The movie may have ended, but I'm still on a journey with it and it wasn't until actually started reading interviews with Charlie Kaufman that I came to understand and appreciate more of the things than the little know. tidbits and references that you know I might have missed or a new appreciation for how it fits in the script and the story it's really wild and I'm actually really looking forward to watching it again even if I know it's going to make me feel uncomfortable and very, very conflicted on the first couple scenes there. Okay. We've got some real estate between these two takes that. Even, where'd you come down? Well, I was anxious and confused. For What did the movie for? For most of the time and I knew this was a movie that was maybe going to have a hard time following, and then eventually they're kind of be a point at which there's a reveal and then things would snap into focus and unfortunately for me that reveal came after the movie was over and started to read about it. I do kind of wonder if I wouldn't have benefited from actually having the basic gist of. This story spoiled for me because I spent the entire film feeling like I was trying to solve a puzzle instead of really being along for the ride and once that puzzle was solved I sort of felt like, oh, I get it and then I started to go back and piece together what I had seen and I'm like, oh I, bet this movie would really improve on second viewing and then I thought do I want to? Do I want to go back and Rewatch then becomes the question and I'm I'm still not one hundred percent sure I will say I think the performances in this movie are terrific. I think Jessie Buckley is fantastic. I think Jesse Plemmons has kind of aging into Philip Seymour Hoffman in interesting ways I continue to be intrigued by kind of his career trajectory. There's tons and tons of ideas being thrown at the screen. There's great care being put into like all these little details that I think are interesting but the process of watching it the number of times I tilted my head quizzically. I was anxious and confused the first third of this film as they drive up to the farmhouse was giving me some horribly pretentious vibes especially in this dialogue expansion expecting that first third and then looked up the cast list in IMDB because I to Stephen was really impressed by Jessie Buckley what she was doing here because this script is throwing all kinds of stuff at her and she has to keep shifting from seen from moment to moment, and that's what I learned that her character is billed as the young woman and I was like, Oh, here we go. We're not even gonNA give her name. and. As far as the experience of watching this film, I felt I didn't know that was going on here until I, kind of feel like I commit myself I did here in my opinion because this is ambiguous but not vague I just felt that there is more here to unpack after I've seen at the first time. All right now I. think just. So we can actually talk about this film and actually talk about it. Let's switch to spoiler territory. So everybody listening if you WANNA skip ahead go ahead. We're now going to be deep in spoiler territory because we need to spoil this strange movie Aisha connections did you make what you think do it? Yes. So I did feel a similar vein to Steven, when I was watching this movie and I started picking up on this that is going to be well, i. knew it was going to be a coffin the but when it was going to be very, very cerebral lake. Have to be paying attention type of movie I started picking up the clues there as the janitor who we see getting ready for work working at the school and interest rates. Between that you have Jesse provinces character talking about how he remembers seeing Oklahoma many times and going back to where he grew up and talking to all these kids and seeing the kids change. But doing the same like Monday and things Madani of life Blah Blah Blah Blah, and so I kinda connection early on that like that might be the older version of him I don't even know if that's actually what it's supposed to be but I think that's what it was. Also. Confused because I thought maybe this is like a story about someone with dementia or Alzheimer's they're like remembering all these moments and whatnot. So the puzzle of all makes it less of a movie that I want to revisit in more of a movie that like I just kind of wish I had been able to experience and I didn't experience in the way that I think that maybe the director wanted to if that makes sense Monica Spoil, away file away movie about. It's about a lot of things. But for me, I actually really love the way that the movie kind of plays on horror movie conventions about going. To meet the parents making that like such a stressful situation. It lightens the emotions and the you know the tension and the fear that you may have of like meeting your partner's parents, and then when the temporal interruption start happening it even you know makes it worse more intense for me the you know there's ominous music in the background know things are kind of out of sight or reference, and you don't see it or you know the shadows the way that it falls in the house. It's kind of dim in there. I thought it was going in a completely different direction before then switches and then you kind of get you know a little bit more into the head space of. Like I wish I kind of put together a little bread crumbs of like, Oh yeah. The Pauline Kale Book is on shelf and that's why she's quoting Pauling Kale. This is. Potentially, a fantasy of his because it's also you know the women that he stops to see at the ice cream store and wants to avoid then kind of feeds into you know the different girls he's known throughout his life, and then this is the fantasy potential perfect one. But even in his own fantasy, she's Kinda rejecting him and thinking about ending things absolutely stephen as far as you could piece together. What do you think about? Well, think this movie is plainly like he has fantasized the young woman, the Jessie Buckley character. As like a woman, he is seeing, but his own story is constantly changing constantly revising his own fantasy life. Her occupation keeps changing her thoughts and theories keep changing but they're changing to reflect our that he is consumed. I mean there's a scene in his childhood bedroom where you see the Pauline Kale Book you see the movie, a Beautiful Mind it's not in his bedroom, but you see these paintings that she is purported to have have made, and what is a little bit frustrating about this movie on a macro scale for me is I was watching as it goes along and I was really interested in the Jessie Buckley character and I was like man how refreshing is it that Charlie Kaufman has? Stepped out of this head space of like the troubled mind of the American male and is instead telling this really complex nuanced story about this woman, and then of course, the big twist is psych. It's entirely about the troubled psyche of the American male and she is a complete figment of his imagination to his credit I. Think he gives her agency within his fantasy. The fact that she is the one who is thinking of ending things with Jesse plans character even though she doesn't actually exist some of the like unreliable narrator stuff about her still questioning him even though she exists only in his mind, I? Do think is interesting but I kind of wish it weren't kind of just another Charlie Kaufman. Of like. This dude who stuck in his own head, which was my frustration with a movie like anomalies another Charlie. Kaufman movie which to me it was just a bunch of wind bagri about how hard it is to be this guy. And I was excited about this movie and ultimately became a little bit less excited about it once it was clear that it wasn't about her at all right. As you're saying, this is not the story of a young woman at least not the story of young. When you think it is it's not the story young couple it is a story of saddle doot. So here about two man's Blaine see the picture that is really about a man splendor and as for what it's about a got a theory but I'm not convinced it's the only one or the right one, which is Kinda why like it as much as I do so the school janitor is dying his life is flashing before his. Eyes his brain is firing randomly the way that it does. That's what all that talk about Gerontology and neurons is about and he sees upon this one girl that he remembers but did not approach that he never worked up the courage to talk to at a bar and his brain is trying to envision what it would look like if he had but and this is where the critique comes in he's not creative he's not imaginative. So he just creates her out of stuff that he's read and watched and listened to he thinks he wants somebody to have an intellectual discussion with. So they have these incredibly Hackney discussions when David Foster Wallace was busted out was like Oh boy I've been stewed. College I I was this. Do they have the same baby? It's cold outside discussion the crops up every year on twitter comes like clockwork like, Oh, here we go. Again, he can't hold in in his mind, right? So she's a poet and she's a film critic and then she's not critic actually Pauline Kale. I like how everything about her her wardrobe. What she does personality, it keeps shifting and then once he the film is coming to its end. He has this big song from Oklahoma while his mother is on stage looking approvingly and he gives the Nobel Prize speech from a Beautiful Mind because he conceive of any accomplishment that isn't on the back of someone else but there's a moment in his film. Before that when the young woman kind of forgives the janitor, they finally meet in a high school hallway and there's a moment of forgiveness of grace where she you know she she's basically saying you created me you can't fully imagine me. You've trapped me in this kind of half existence but I forgive you now I did not forgive the. Moment I was like you're a monster. This is awful. What you're doing to this kind of figment of your imagination I think Calvin is such a self-critical dude. That it was surprising to me because I didn't expect him to offer what I think is a standard for the Calvin character because it's the same kind of Hauptmann imagines himself in a lot of his movies. I don't think he needs us to extend the gender that same. Grace or forgiveness I don't think he expects us to but it was surprising to me that little moment it. Kinda. Took me by surprise and that was the moment of like something new I hadn't seen in a common before again for me I do think this movie comes down to because there are so many hazing bodily things that come Stachel where you are in that moment in your life and white you're dealing with and. The expression of emotion of it. You know we haven't been talked about Tony collapsed character in she is just playing another version of her hereditary victor by. Watch her play that character over and over again despite the fact that it seems like they did it necessarily know. What was going on that this more of a mood piece in anything else I do think the performances saved it for me and made it at. Enjoyable and sell parts even when I couldn't really get down with the very Kaufman s attempt to be self-critical that I think boss flak in the way that Stephen Talks about it. One thing that we haven't quite mentioned yet is the fantasy ballet. I actually really love that I know it's not everybody's on board with it but I felt like it was such a release of tension in the middle of all this like emotion in you know deep thought and all this other stuff that was going on and then you know you just have this very physical. Manifestation of all those like sweet meat. Cute coming together and then getting pulled apart and everything else that happens and you know this high school setting with dancers dressed as the characters. It's almost bizarre. It is like a a callback to older musicals and things like that. But I I I was stunned confused and then just loved it still on a journey with this film. I think Monica are done with this and Steven may maybe a little less. So tell us what you think about. I'm thinking of ending things find us on facebook at facebook dot com slash P. C. H., or tweet us at P. C. H. I'm really curious to hear about other folks about this because there is no one answer there is no right take. There's a lot to talk about on this film when we come back, it will be time to talk about what's making us happy this week. So come right back. Support for this podcast and the following message come from the Glenlivet's new Caribbean reserve expression a new single malt with a bold tropical twist that is selectively finished and barrels that previously held Caribbean rum offering a sweet and smooth taste. Learn more at the Glen Live. Dot Com the Glenn Limit Caribbean Reserves Single Malt Scotch whisky enjoy our quality responsibly forty percent alcohol by volume eighty proof twenty, twenty imported by the Glenlivet. DISTILLING COMPANY NEW YORK NEW YORK This message comes from NPR, sponsor Tele. Doc. Tele Doc is here for you with twenty four, seven access to board certified doctors who can diagnose and treat non-emergency conditions like sinus infections, these rashes and more and tell Docs Doctors Ken where authorized call a prescription to be filled at the pharmacy of your choice. Download the APP today or visit Tele Doc dot com slash NPR. Welcome back to pop culture happier. It's time for our favorite segments of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week I, Usua-, hit me what's making me happy. This week is the return finally Abscissa to the music scene. Just this last week she surprise fans like myself with the new song called hit different. Features tidal at sign, and if you're already a van, it's very much in the same vein as her previous songs of it's about the precarious relationship romantic relationship that she also just can't get away from she directed a music video that goes with the lots of really great are being Kharafi in the junkyard than later on towards the end at sex into a different song that finds her with her. Hair looking like Patrice Russian just beautiful beads and braids and I just love everything's guys as I think she has free melodies. So I'm so happy about it seems like she might be coming out with new album for the first time in three years. So that's what's making me happy again that says hit different and let's her a little bit of a song to get a taste of that naming. Nine waiting and. Cool. What is you? Know. Great Pick Stephen Thompson what's making this week? My pick is also musical. NPR. Music I think has done a great service with a wonderful content package called. We insist it is a time line package of essays, spotify playlist of different ways into the topic of protest music in the summer of two, thousand, twenty protest music that speaks to the current moment particularly as it relates to black lives matter and police violence. It is full of these really thoughtful essays that are contextualising a moment and a movement as it happens, which is a really, really hard thing to do. If you WanNa know where all the protests music is in twenty twenty. This is a really great way into that I highly highly recommended again in his package at NPR music that is being regularly updated called. We insist thank you very much Stephen Thompson Monica Castillo. What's making this week? Let's make me happy this week and many weeks to come is the Turner Classic Movies Series Women Make Film based around this document multi part documentary looking at women's contribution to cinema from around the world. It's also going to play a number of the films featured in the. Documentary, some of which haven't played US television before some of them have never played on cable before or on Turner Classic Movies. So it's a bunch of different premiers. It's a really great chance to get to see these really rarely screened rarely seen works and I'm like looking at the list now and I'm having a hard time just even highlighting some of my favorites because they are so many it's going to be running through the beginning of December. So even if you didn't start at the beginning of the month, September win the series started you can still. Catch up plenty to watch for the rest of the year and make something of twenty twenty. That's awesome. Thank you. Monica Castillo. Okay. What's making me? Happy this week is the pin pin. The PIN is a British comedy duo Ben Ashington and Alex Owen. Now, they've had show on BBC radio four for years, but they came to my attention only very recently on twitter there at the pin comedy all run together. They're having a moment right now because they are capturing something about this moment, we are living through they are doing the zoom comedy sketches now hear me out. I know that sounds deadly but trust me they're onto something here. These are very brief sketches, one minute minute and a half. So they are doing the business meeting the therapy session, the frustrating video call with your mom just scroll through their feed at the pin comedy and thank me later they're great and that brings us to the end of our show. You can find all of us on twitter you can find me at G H Weldon. You can find Stephen at, I dislike Stephen You can follow Aisha at crafting my style and you can follow Monica at 'em. C. A. Movies you can follow our producer. Jessica Reedy at Jessica underscore and producer my cats felt Mike Katzen. That's K. A. T. Zif Mike. Hello provides the music you may or may not be bobby gearhead to right now. Thanks to all you guys for being here. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to pop culture happier from NPR and if you've got a second and you're so inclined, please subscribe to our newsletter at NPR dot org slash pop culture newsletter, and we will see you all next week when we will be talking about our pandemic pop culture predictions. I'm Lisa Hagan. I'm Chris Axel we're the hosts of no compromise. NPR's new podcast exploring one families mission to reconstruct America using too powerful tools, guns, and facebook new episodes dropped every Tuesday join us for the no compromise podcast, from NPR.

NPR Charlie Kaufman Jesse Plemmons twitter Stephen Thompson Monica Castil Stephen Jessie Buckley Steven Stephen Thompson Oklahoma facebook Pauling Kale Tony Collect Netflix Brooklyn Charlie Kauf Aisha Harris Asia Monica Castio Alzheimer
The Courier DECLASSIFIED

SpyHards Podcast

52:46 min | 3 months ago

The Courier DECLASSIFIED

"Hello and welcome to spy hards declassified where we bring you d latest spy intel straight for mount mysterious spy network but remember this information is strictly for your is only i'm agent scope and i'm cam the provocateur before we tackle the exciting film. We have lined up this week. I think we should explain what spy hans declassified is. Yeah i was curious why you're calling me. This is very inconvenient scott. I'm very busy right now. I get this abuse time guys. i'm. I'm i'm sorry for it. Okay so for me spy. Hans declassified is basically. it's not going to be an every week. Show is basically when we have the opportunity like we do this week. We're going to bring you the fresh take on a failed summit we have just watched. We talk about the noc list. It will be particularly in-depth behind the scenes information. But i think it's more of a fresh off the cuff take on what we saw about them or off. The cuff link vertigo. James bond style. Yeah this is an opportunity for us to give those first takes on newer movies. You know kind of that weekend kind of idea. We're looking forward in the future to doing movies. Like no time to die or a black widow but we have something a little bit different. I guess to launch this series right. Scott that's right. We were talking to the team over amazon prime and again. We want to thank them for this opportunity. And they basically give us an early screening of the film with tackling this week. Which is the curry from. A twenty twenty it came out in cinemas now being released on paid. Vod on the day of release this episode. Which would be friday. The sixteenth of april twenty twenty one and also. They have set up an interview with director of the film which is fantastically with talking to directors dominic cooke which we will be speaking to very shortly the episode. And then we'll come back and we'll talk about film symbol. Yeah that's i think it'd be a fun way to tackle this very interesting movie absolutely so i think before we fly over to the interview. Cam lets cookie. Just say what the film is and then you can tell us a bit more about. The director is well well. The courier basically is a cold war. Spy story about gravel win. Who was a salesman in england in the sixties during the time of the cuban missile crisis of ics roped into a spy story in russia With some Quite serious consequences. Who tell me more. Scott or maybe. Don't let's talk to the director about that and we're gonna talk yes to dominate cook. So dominant cokie fairly new to the film world but has a very rich theater background. He was a director and writer in theater He worked for the royal shakespearean company. The royal court Again this is one of the titans odd theater industry and he hasn't made a lot of films. He's done a couple adaptations of the plays. But i guess is is first real like film was on chessel beach starring tricia ronin. Who was in hannah a movie. We tackled early on in this podcast So i'm looking forward to talking to dominant cook about this movie and the fascinating story. That inspired it yeah. I wasn't too familiar with him. I'm not a big theater guy myself. Speaking with milo the hoffy why she watched the film with me. She pointed out. I had seen the holder crown which he made for bbc tv and i had seen on chessel beaches. Well he actually recent did not up. Tation of ma rainey's black bottom a couple of years ago. Which is now been done to netflix. So of course right right. For over to the interview. Now we'll come back and speak about the film camera. Roll the clip and we are joined by the director of the courier. Dominant cook dominic. Thank you for joining today. Thanks for having me now. I realize our time is short so we are gonna fire some questions at us fast as we can. But i'll starts off as we basically we just review fail monday episode and the first thing i really wanted to know is what brought you to this film. What got you interested in telling the story. Well i sent script with the big pilot script semi agents in the. Us just saw finished film. And they were gonna get you next though. Okay and i read punchy. And i just love this fit. I just egypt up. That soyuz extraordinary. I didn't even know it was a true story. There's nothing in the script. Said this is a true story of is sort of interest. And then at the end of the i found out that he was sort of the research. But i think to me in the end. What really so for me was the that it had to the will and most stories There are so many spy movies are solve the have the coldness of the count Is the center of the action of the film. But you don't get much almost personal cost of Relationships the personal relationships at the heart of it and because this story bolt as a regular person rather than a trained operative Allowed spice for that. I'm that that really sort of moved me and brought me to Okay so interested. We tackle spy movies every week. And they're such an established tone to spy movies. I'm curious if you were looking at any you know spy films for influence. Or if there's anything you kind of had in mind when you were tackling this project will. We didn't look at a few in the one that really stood out with society came in from a colt Because we will look in mostly actually have seen a lot of other spiders chunk we will look in most periods Maybe insane kind of tyne. And i loved about that was associates completely unglamorous will portray a routine really rothem plus and i thought. Oh that feels a bit more lights. Something more rail and we'll see how to sustain slows and intensity to it was brilliant. I had seen it years ago actually came back to it And actually otherwise that the influences on the film were more from hitchcock and other types of movies from the periods Then they're not the spy movies particularly particularly hitchcock movies. That jumped out. Well the one. The one i looked at my age anyways my notice from quite well The one looks lot with north by northwest which hot because it was around the same time was made around the same time as the events of the movie said because he said good at getting walters like to be in a situation. That is beyond your control and that of strange paranoid. I mean it is a registered to this movie. But i think that's so amazing about film you are constantly trying to catch up with what has over other. He's on johnny. Cut shop harry wrong and we it really difference. I thought about shooting a movie because Because walt he does i mean the example i would is one secrets that really close these incredible secrets in the In the cornfields the crop sprayer and and how he construct slats which is very tickle in. He still uses three camera angles. One is wide shop which isolates the person in the setting. So you've gotten have honorability you go to the reaction on quite quite tired. Cary wrong and then you get the clean. Pov which we used a lot clean points-of-view trace seeing the world through the eyes of the protagonists and the combination of those three types of shot. We used a lot in this movie. and h is in the shower scene. It's an old back. Combination is in all the key incident and it's magic nation. Because is you'll the information. Adrian but claimed heavy is so valuable in the mix. Because it really does put you into the boots. The character And if you look at the way we did arrive in the app or for example in moscow waste abuse that seat that combination. Yeah so my next question kind of follows on from the first one. Which was you'll i is getting into the film. And you mentioned you was handed the script and you hit knows a real story at the time but once you got into that and the the prices have actually putting it on the screen. How did you deal with it being a real story and translating that to the screen. It's such a complex question. Because you've got you've got your loyalty to the real people. And i thank you so i've got all the spirit very least of who they are. What happens But at the same time you've got to make something that's compressed. Huge he compressed. If you're tv series much space just get into the nuances. And they'd sort of sort of be be subplots in order that you have fallen last time. You've got to compress everything right down and you've got us to make something exciting so you know you'll tool but what are we trying to bring those two items together and i always feel if you're doing something that's drawn real life. You really do need to do your research and you need to act in. It's totally pragmatic response in what you find. You've gotta only really use to stop. It's gonna in home the bell and if you if you if you got the key thing He's you need guiding principle by which you can head it out information snotty spoke. So you've gotta decide what gonna make. It happens when people do novels. Same thing happens because if you do a novel novels like how long does it take to read an oval dates. But you get down to charge you which we want to talk about so grass. We sort of started the friendship and essential of the story being axes on which the whole thing and the about being the hall the movie so that in the amazing processor that we didn't get into it and then once i started doing the reading it was so interesting. I mean it was fascinating. I'm there were elements of research. That i found the defend in the movie and shaped on staying things and other bits netflix. Behind and of course you'll know the really hard thing about research like that. This is by. Its very exciting. Necessity secret that there is a lot of sort of fake news and actually the propaganda around this particular story would hew especially soviet union. Russia will actually happened. They what is accepted that is the soviet special events which was totally constructed to define penkovsky. It's it's totally fake. They had ecstatic show trial and there was. Don't kim entry made in the maybe seventies about it. In the soviet era unacquainted authorities was signed virus issue. So high up so much information to the west they had to do stuff to sort of help and get away and And they detained him and that version of events is now so when we went over to cost the movie we were getting quite how combat or people about what type of tracy was had wasn't hero until his decorates times he'd been in office. These things were put into a tv documentary compact and so. that's dist willful distortion Of the story and the very shooting happened with with a win. Which was that. You would slow home to shot by my sixty. Because otherwise they would take away pension as he was going on television on writing books with telling the truth and self aggrandizing. Fictions meant that the story was really an accessible as a brilliant book by he saved the world which i can't quite late in my research which is based on the cia papis which released in the ninety s so that was the first of was tightly rooted in concrete. Great information credit helpful. Because you know you've got your script but you need to sit on the stand of the big event and that was that was found useless. I'm curious the setting for this movie in the locations were beautiful. I thought the mood that came through. Those locations was really really effective. And i'm just curious. What the challenges you faced recreating you know. Cold war era moscow in this film. Yeah that was quite hard. I mean I had actually been soviet russia in the eighties trick which was an unbelievably helpful. But say it was even then sewed different anything i had seen before and since that it would have helped me and that she live productions so border be talking about my sleep. Have running ads retarded patients out there. I'd going on about the key lady in the hotel. will there. Were so many things that sewage and unique we tried to get into the the movie But yeah we went to quite a few paces which kiss we went to belarus minsk. We nearly chalk actually do two days. Because it's it's a monument talon as it extrordinary. Kgb that it's still in that era A very strange lights and they still gonna solve thirty foot nine in stock shoes left so we were gonna do exteriors that it turned out that we couldn't get so it wasn't reliable because the promise the access bills needed we showed it all in prague. Some of he's some of rescreen screen or vantage. approx got a lot of brilliant architecture and we. Yeah we serve huge amount research. I mean you know the props or fantastic. We tried to get everything absolutely bang on to get the feel of that world As accuracy possibly could But i have to say the fact that i had been and i've been rush since the various reasons for work. was very helpful. Because it's it's i think such a different culture atmosphere in russia to to to western europe That use of of need to easy what. I'm quick question about just benedict cumberbatch. I mean he's one of the for me the best things about the his fullness fantastic but what was it like directing him and direct team through that process because the physical change he goes relate run the film's very jarring in that. That that flip film takes that point. You say oh so. How was that. Just directing benedict in coaching well. He's i want him a few times before and he's very The self correcting he's a very good storytelling sense. I actually very director said that suits him because he's he student knows it's quiet story. Wise freesheet and a very physical so we sort of creates kind ges designate. As a lot of. I mean he looked a lot. The real preval win not lots of including win ship about who he really was because he was very working background from wales and he had a very operational slightly pushy grandiose mother wanted best ourself on in and he ended up marrying someone who's upper middle class living in chelsea but he slide restore to which i think is one of the reasons why connecting says the costea. He is like switch it by very severe dyslexia which at the time course understood or recognized kids who had to sexy news a school near during this whole festival and he was put to the back of the costs and and treated like he was stupid When he clearly was all and we noticed in the photographs of win every single. I about the any point in his life. He will the same time and We did our homework. I don't know how we found this out. This was not made found out someone in the woods. Drive team out the tie that he will was the nauseam university. Talk right And he had not actually attended nothing university however he had attended some lectures that as an outside engineering because that was his special special. Is you couldn't go in because it's dyslexia. And i just thought that was a. We boast fast on that as a clue actually redid newlyweds. Tired of seeing what. What i thought was so interesting was what kind of a passer is that needs to defend themselves strongly. You know from also of sort of put their status out there when they clearly hadn't really got that status and and i think you know he did sense. It's nothing recognized. In a way that i think see how exactly the same sense the very different And i think that that's selective Grievance was paused dynamic. select for them as a as a parent. I had a question about jessie buckley. Whose definitely emerging as a major talent and so many times when you see these real life stories translated to the screen. There's the wife at home character which feels so underdeveloped. I'm just really curious about the efforts you took because this character really did have a really interesting and dynamic role throughout the movie especially the built as the movie kept going. I'm really curious about the development of that character. When you're putting this together thank you. It was is really hard what you're describing it's perennial question of the moment really comes up a lot of the moment when you're thinking about how do you tell the truth about the post where it was white guys who were approaching the world. The owner the stories property of the people who don't that concentrate and So it's really tricky because we you know we we want focusing on her story I mean i have to say that. We were so lucky jesse because jesse of old people in the film is the person most different. She's playing she sought just sort of grounded. Open free spirit. she's not. There's nothing about buttoned up or hidden or indirect. Jesus for here. I am and she's also way way way younger than the character and yet east someone who is much older than she is I think that was that she absolutely reached outside road. Third time area into that period totally goldblatt sort of upper middle class top tight sense the emotions wrong and expression feelings role and unfortunately still exists in the uk. Now i think you could say i think there was a sea change. When princess diana died suddenly right to express being a public. It is part of our heritage. Is the parts of the public school system and she got that with a great thing addresses. She's so florida feeling herself. That the contrast between those qualities is what makes the performance. Really interesting. We tried as much as we could give her agency and we wrote a bunch of scenes of the ended up dropping what she was still doing stuff more in the world's i mean within herod's fatty narrow world women who was working at that time would have been like about extraneous. And you didn't shoot me yet But we tried as much as possible of challenging him pushing him and demanding. That'll be true. She eighty cents that she was some sort passage at sick. I'm aware of the time. So i have a couple of quick fire questions at the end if you don't mind Echoes so okay. Save this non courier related. This is this is spy film. So what is your favorite spy film of all time. You know what. I'm saying tv series of tinker tailor. Okay oh yeah. i'm sorry. It's breaking the rules that we liked that we like that. It's usually probably now. Looks really really clunky. And wobbly sets but i think the acting and this quick chain of thought was brilliance in terms of tension. Dykes and that's a false pulse with really that i love the ball movies i love that stuff bots i would say that. Yeah well you've led me onto the next question. Which is of course james bond. Who is your james bond while. Wow i thought next will be james norton but i'm not so sure now. Favorite the favorite. Sean connery this no. It's not what mean the conversation. They're just there is no one better and you know i watched I watched recently What was it nope He's such a he's such an interesting character because he's got the source of he's got that sort of Masculinity but really is a sensuality about this almost feminine. And i don't mean feminine. I mean this is the sensuality celebrity on a which i think. He's no price Camera you slightly by mumbled. So who's yours. Come just quickly. i always say connery's the best but roger moore is kind of my favorite. That's the one that brought me into the franchise. I get back. Because i grew up with right jamal. And the he seventy become heraldic in the end didn't it the lack of which stint pounds. Oh totally totally align very thin between austin powers at roger bower films right. Yeah that's what. I should have my favorite slimy. I'm getting the question i have is. What's coming up you next It's really hard to say. I've got the so like it's like being in the he trap gonna do at traffic control now idea when they can land but Film wise there's a a film of stephen sondheim's musical follies which is like they don't station so script. That which is about white from this you could possibly get but infrequent room for the peace and then as a a a a film that's on trying to produce the company off sets up fiction else and the film is a sort of. It's sort of drawn promotes really wonderful. Would with the film's intelligent comedy. Eight on an old world site erotica and intelligent people And using london as a romantic six He's a lovely script. He's very hadn't on. Who quote funny. It's very funny so so very different projects on. I don't know which one will line i. I'm hoping something will happen next year by tonight. It's so a given up making plans. I mean does impossible. The more you invest in the plan. The more disappoint you jerk in the but i'm hopeful some quite so we can bay. These days is hopeful. Yes well. I mean on behalf of canada myself. I want to thank you for the film. Firstly it's just nice to see a new film right now something different and fresh and new and it was a joy to watch it and it's been enjoyed spoke to you. Thanks so much guys. I really enjoyed that. So that was all chat with director dominic cooke now can. This is off first time doing a fresh. Take on a film if you will. So what did you think of the courier. I really enjoyed this movie. I thought it was a really solid spy thriller. I went into it without having any idea. Really what it even was and you know. I searched online. Apparently had an earlier title iron bark that has been switched on at least for north american release. Maybe international release even but that was the working title. And so i really didn't know what to expect and benedict. Cumberbatch is a guy who we really like on the podcast. He's i think friend to the espionage genre. He signed on to thirty-nine steps remained fairly recently. I am so. I kinda sat down. Not knowing what to expect. Irons really sucked into this movie. In this a true life story of a win. Who was just like this. Unassuming businessman who got roped into an espionage game that had huge stakes in this case. It's the you know the cuban missile crisis. So i was. I guess following along throughout this movie having no idea where it was going which is a lot of find like. I'm glad that i was ignorant to history that i didn't bother to read this. History book story Because this movie actually really was gripping and what i think was the most effective for me was. There's a lot of movies that are recreation of historical events. Sometimes they can be a little dry. What i thought was really effective about this one was that it was about the friendship between gravel win and his contact this Who is a possibly going to defect named oleg penkovsky and how that relationship really forms the heart of this movie and i mean we've talked about spy films in the past will in the future that are quite i and when you get to these kind of labyrinthine cold war plots sometimes the characters feel kind of aloof in a little tough to connect with and i found that this would be really overcame that with our relationship. What about you. I was somewhat hesitant going into this film. Just because i tend to have trouble with these more espionage release these john lecarr as that sort of weld the old like the end the dayton's as well with the harry. Promise maybe no billion dollar brain Crazy towards the end but at the funeral in berlin the gritty reality of being a spy. But will i actually go. I was really pulled into From the get go. I have to say i mean we'll get to performance slightly wrong benedict. Cumberbatch is the star of this film. He told me in immediately. This unassuming guy. He's obviously goes live so it out. He's a salesman and the us and the uk government. Lean on. this guy. I think it's very fair. And he is pulled into this spy flow and he has to deal with some awful consequences later on in the film. Yeah there's a great moment where they're actually recruiting him and it's just played out on his face as he's like kind of just like stunned like you want me to do what and it's played very tense and i liked it. There was always the sense of a guy who is not really up for this job not qualified whatsoever. He's not being given the whole picture. Because it's not really even safe to do that and it doesn't ever try to pivot into suddenly. He's a super capable agent. This really is a man thrown into a very tense political situation. Yes he's very unassuming guy. He says his life so now he's live with his wife and child is obstacle policy. Talk about in the film. But he eventually developed his bond which you mentioned earlier this brotherly connection with the oleg penkovsky character Ultimate life trying to save the world in their own little way. That's one of the messages of this film is two men can make a difference or two people. I should say yeah. It has a humanity to it that i really appreciate it because again going back to what i was saying in my intro there where i just said a lot of time. These cold war ones can be pretty chilly. This will be really goes out of. Its way to make these characters feel fleshed out and sympathetic in some way. You know Oleg who's played by merriman itchy That is a character that eat a lot of films. Older films tackling. This sort of story play. The russian characters as stoic to the point of being unreadable and often that comes across as cold and movies and i felt they found the real humanity in this character and that you could understand how these two guys is thrust into this. Very unfortunate situation would bond. Despite the fact they are very different. Like the differences feel like they're broached within the film in a way that i completely bought it doesn't feel like a hollywood relationship but i would agree with that but at the same time. They highlight the similarities between these people that live in complete different countries on different sides of high stakes. Game of russian roulette. If you pardon. The russian pawn the erlichs family his wife and kid and the stakes for him as well and i think that's what drew me into the Original question while i thought about the film i really enjoyed it. I think it was the relationship between the two. i know it will highlight again by the next performance. The kept me going through this hour. Fifty minutes of what could have been in different hands and my head to the director as well dominic in. What could have been a very chilly and onions attaining story. Yeah because sometimes when you're dealing with this sort of material it can get bogged down in details and i thought You know cook in his writer. Tom o'connor were really good at managing to create a story out of something that could get very complex. I mean the whole scenario in the situation was like Oleg manage to send over like five thousand documents to the brits into the americans regarding the situation of the nuclear powers that russia was Potentially wielding in the cold war and again that could lead to a very complex movie when you're talking about five thousand documents. How many trips as back and forth. But i thought the movie did a really good job at just streamlining the story to make it engrossing and building up the characters in the relationships. Because we've seen so many of these movies where the characters feel often like chess pieces in a larger game and that can work but in a story like this where it is based on factual events. I think you want to feel more of that human touch. Why found to be quite interesting as well if he looked at the film's we've covered so far. We haven't really done anything in this. I quoted espionage thriller. Maybe that's a good title for. I don't know but we've never gone down this avenue just yet we have touched on it. Lightly would has a hitchcock films of kind of brushed on this but nothing. That's gone the full sean. Carre yeah I mean you could say some of the harry palmer's may be funeral in berlin sort of wanders into this sorta territory but no we haven't done some of the serious stuff we have a couple of coming up on our list It's gonna be to dive into those types of films in comparison to some of the things we've done in the past but you're right like this did feel somewhat different than the movies. We've tackled thus far. I think that's probably helped to with my enjoyment. But i was again surprised because as i said i'm more of a pub coal action film kinda guy so i i would always tend to go for my james bond's more than my harry palmer's sorry cam. I'm not offended So i was as. I said i was worried going into it but they create a story that i cared about and carrots is like head about and in a setting which was quite impressed with is i created. This world felt real. It's based on real story. But i think again it's no tip of the the director because set-pieces the you know everything that i feel like the sixties it didn't ever feel out of place the performances felt tight and i felt drawn into this wealth that they create and also the location work in. Prague is really beautiful like this movie has some fantastic locations. It has the atmosphere of your classics by story. Where you get to see benedict cumberbatch. You know wondering into these kind of remote looking areas of of moscow and how terrifying it. The situations often look. It's a pretty great. Dr location work here. This movie has genuine atmosphere. It really does. That definitely helps to in some. The i was just checking on my notes about actually really carries. all the way through is Duality between the two main characters. You've got one living in this opulent western world this communist world and the stock contrast between the two and you think about like the fluffy life benedict cumberbatch character. Living and then you have a penkovsky who in the second scene you see. See someone get cooked to death right in front of him right. Yeah oh yeah. I think that's effective in establishing why he's in so much danger and white bennett. Comeback could be a lot of danger by taking on this mission but also sets you up for knowing where this character's fate may lie at the end of the movie. Yeah i think we should point out as well in terms of the real life story on what we saw on the screen here. So this is by says i said on real life story between these people and in the end you see an interview with the real Will win which is quite interesting and and they did potentially prevent the you know the cuban missile crisis from escalating any further. They potentially save billions of lives. Yeah yeah now i. This is something for me. That i maybe found a little lacking i found that you like atmosphere. This movie very much sucked being. And i love the character journey. But did you feel the real tension of the The cuban missile crisis in this movie. No particularly i. I know you're coming from on that. There was like news clips i. The background is. Attention was upping throughout the film. I didn't really feel any major overhanging tension. There was definitely like a sense of. I was who cool it. William with nineteen ninety-four the either in the wolves watching as only scenes of benedict cumberbatch. Checking for bugs in his room and having to make conversation whilst music is playing in the background so they can't be picked up. That's quite interesting and definitely makes everything feel a bit like the wolves are coming in on the but in terms of the cold war keep missile crisis tension. I didn't feel that as much better. Yeah because the movie does a fantastic job. Establishing on that anyone can be the eyes of you know russia like anyone could be reporting these guys. And so there's a lot of work done with just watching benedict cumberbatch stroll through a scene and it builds that tension like i felt that danger throughout the movie. So it's not a criticism necessarily of the movie feeling flat in terms of being dramatically tents. Because you get that in smaller more subtler ways but in terms of that escalating danger of the cuban missile crisis. I felt like that didn't quite connect much and you know this isn't a high budget movie. They weren't gonna be out there re staging sections of the cuban missile crisis. So you're right. They are working with Clips of jfk. Talking on the news. And what have you giving his addresses But that was one element rice said. Like ooh like if we could just maybe Pull up that tension a little bit more. I think i would be even more sucked in. I think there's a crisis point where they try and get penkovsky out of russia where he can defect to the west and that's the point where everything so flips and has definitely shift in target in the film because all the main characters are in russia Arrested the basically thrown into prison except for rachel brosnahan character who has diplomatic immunity. And you know a main character now in prison being stripped naked shaved down. Mistreated miss fed ends up losing a ton of whites. Which i wanna get to it in. A minute is in terms of bendix performance with that i felt that had level attention to it just the unknown of being in that prison. Yeah i mean. I didn't know the story going in and at this point i was really thrown for a loop. I really thought this was going to end with the two guys. Living happily ever after in the us or britain or whatever you know like i didn't have any idea where the story was going to go and Yeah i mean that's where a lot of attention attention comes from the characters throughout this movie and that's why it's so effective and yeah everything to deal with him. You know with With win being sent to prison in russia was it was harsh and the movie didn't pull its punches now did not Speaking of didn't necessarily quite work for me. I the other main character. We haven't responded to about is rachel. Brosnahan has character of emily donovan who plays the cia liaison between america and the uk and she's dead throughout most of the film just giving tips and directing Winds says resist being journey. And i didn't feel like she delivered particularly fullness. I felt like she wasn't really there. Okay that's interesting I think it's a challenge when you're playing the composite character because This this character was several people in real life right. Sometimes it doesn't translate great when you create a new character out of whole cloth for the movie. Because you start to go like this character feels like a movie character. In comparison to the other figures who feel like they're living a human story and That was kinda how. I felt with her I thought she was very effective in the scenes where she's fighting for them. You know where she really is wanting to accomplish this mission. I bought her conviction in those scenes. But it was more to me. The character's function often felt a little too little too neat. That may have actually been the thing i bumped on. It felt clean like she wasn't really involved in the well to dislike putting up and the easing about like bandits. Come character iran Broken down she looked completely clean immaculate. And i've actually been watching Recently in the marvelous. Mrs maisel all amazon and i can. I've seen her range. She can do everything. Rachel brosnahan terrific Indictment on her. I guess it might offend somebody to with the capture on page. Maybe what i appreciate though was with this character who could have easily been an exposition machine. They gave her moments of actual connection with the character. He said okay. This is at least working on a one to one basis. Like i understand how she relates to number batches character and you know benedict. Cumberbatch is characters. A wife is played by jessie buckley. Who is in the netflix will be. I'm thinking of ending things This past year. I don't know time has merged together during covid. So i don't even know if it was twenty twenty or twenty twenty one i think is twenty twenty but You know often you have the wife at home. And that's the character though wife at home but i felt like they really gave this character quite a bit to do at a certain point and you have scenes with her. End the rachel brosnahan character where it felt like they were giving these two something to do just by playing off of each other in a scene so while i i agree like the you know. The composite character is a little awkward If felt like they were trying. They're trying to do something whereas a lot of movies would have just kind of wedged into had been like i deal with it. I can definitely understand that Into my head where rachel brosnahan character. Emily's consoling jesse character. Sheila 'cause benedict cumberbatch Cats imprisoned by this point. And she's telling her like don't give any information away to the press but without actually saying. Oh he's actually a by like she's eating her in the right direction to protect her and benedict cumberbatch character and playing the game and she actually sends out the british male spy. Moss out of the room kushner's econ handle. So compensation she's clearly in charge knows what she's doing. I appreciate that performance. Say yeah yeah like. It doesn't feel like a thinly written characters feels like one that again. It feels a little too good to be true. It's one of those characters who's always kind of in the right place at the right time. Saying the right things you go. Well this doesn't. I don't know you see better cumberbatch. His character really feel like a person. Someone who's having to adapt in the moment and also the penkovsky character. He's far more practiced in this world than comeback but penkovsky feels like he's having to improvise and you know having to recover an awkward situations whereas You know the The rachel brosnahan character. You don't get that as much but that's it. It's something that kind of stuck out to me but it also really didn't impact my overall take on the movie. I think it was waiting for the next scene with the two leads. Yeah when she's on inches given east of sap for the next thing to happen in the okay. Can we see benedict Which i say often. But that's that's beside the point. I mean she also has the unfortunate role for any actor is your job is to move the plot along and that is largely what has to happen because benedict cumberbatch by virtue of being a spy. Who's not even on the bigger picture. He's not going to be the one pushing forward on his story. he needs someone to keep putting him back. You know in these dangerous situations i think. That was moses onto. I just wanna touch on a couple of the main characters Maybe we'll get wrapping everything up Benza cumberbatch as you mentioned earlier with by massive fans of his work but this is a total force him. I did not expect that. yeah Because you know you think You know i'm sure he just kinda shot this between Avengers endgame in the next doctor. Strange movie You know. I'm sure this was just kind of a quick job for him and you could easily think that through like three quarters of this movie and then you get to this prison sequence and benedict cumberbatch really goes through a physical transformation in this movie. That really knocked me over. I was genuinely shocked at how well i mean. He looks pretty emaciated by the time. This movie's over. Yeah that's what really jaw. Because it feels like. He's having a bit of fun with the character in the beginning. He's he's playing spy and then the reality starts to set in then he's arrested but then that whole thing where he's stripped naked and they've shaved his hash Mustache off on just remove his identity away. The whole thing just reminded me of strange segue but like the second episode of the chain of command to park Ration- you see patrick. Stewart's character of sean lee Stripped down naked removed identity and the the avalon in the episode. Just trying to break resolve and the the russians in trying to break wins resolve. Get him to admit he was a spy. And it's heart wrenching times. Will you see that. This is a guy who's vulnerable throughout this entire story from moment. One that when they recruit him he someone who's highly vulnerable because he's not trained in any way shape or form to be doing this job and you think ok. Well that's gonna be the tension of a guy who's vulnerable at any In any situation that he's going to be taking part in this mission in then you get here and you realize that whatever vulnerability was there before as far exceeded now because you are seeing him literally as you said stripped bare wasting away. We're seeing brutality heaped upon him and being tortured. I mean i really was quite blown away at how committed a cumberbatch was to this performance. I mean it really did blow me away. I mean he was actually the exact producer on this movie as well so he was obviously someone who had some sort of stake in getting this movie made and he must have viewed this as a real chance to deliver that sort of gopher broke performance yet. His i think production company would part of the creation. This film i think That company as well but Yeah that whole. I did a little research before. He actually did lose weight for this. This pot he lost a couple of starting in white. So it's not one of those. Like chris evans digitally made smaller performance. Do as a little bit of that digital effects later on probably but he did lose a little weight for and it's it's visually striking reminds me of christian bio in the machinist Yeah yeah and i mean it's very wrenching like didn't expect to be this wrenching. When i started the first hour or something would not have led me to expect that. And when you see you know Penkovsky meet up with him in that prison. It is a brutal sequence like that moment is both the emotional high point of the movie and also just the most like gut churning moment. Yeah because you see both of your hair is basically broken and the only little bit resolve. The benedict's character has left. Is he found out that the cuban missile crisis has been averted by s- basically thanks to their efforts and he gets the tail penkovsky. Who doesn't know this that his what was at least valid incite lives. He may have saved his own life which we find out he's soon executed afterwards but he has saved millions potentially potentially the site the world based on his will he did i not give him some solace. Which is it quite quite moving on. I did not expect that from this film. I thought was really fantastic in this movie. I never seen him. I don't think anything. And if i did it was nothing of you know where he leapt off the screen to me but he many ways drives this movie. It's his story that Benedict cumberbatch characters getting drawn into and i thought he was really effective and he is at final scene opposite cumberbatch and like your heart breaks for this guy and throughout the movie like movie does a really fantastic job taking a russian character and making him not just sympathetic but someone who really does break your heart over the course of the movie. Yeah i i know it's been locked onto about benedict's before most but you're right. His performances is justice to him because he's playing almost like a mentor in some ways. But also this guy knows he's bringing this newbie into harm's way and feeling it must be weighed Being a god sees through the nonsense of communism at the time and and the reality of the impending threat of nuclear fallout and being. At just thinking i need to defect from my own motherland to try. And stop this at. That's a lot of white to carry on your shoulders. And i think he's performance ready shows. He understands that. Yeah yeah. it's a really strong performance. And i look forward to seeing him in more films. I need to check out. Maybe some of his other notable roles. I was looking for a lot of tv. Walk including imbalance station which is a a spy tv. Show as well. So okay. I can extra for the performance i would highlight. Is jessie buckley. He mentioned the elliott plays benedict cumberbatch. His wife sheila in the film and she has another tool orders. Deal with which is being. That's wife home character. But you know she goes for her own journey throughout because she thinks that benedict's character is cheating on her with a with his travels to russia of the it turns out that he's actually trying to save the world silly him but and she actually rent realizes that has to go and see her husband being broken down in prison by the end and again that that scene maybe same as the scene comes immediately afterwards with the two main characters each other again. But that's a pretty heartbreaking scene to and we'll handled by a Jessie buckley it is an when i initially saw her in this movie. Pop up you of go like boy jesse buckley's like a really really talented actress. I i wonder why she has like why she took this role like it feels kind of small right considering some of the other amazing work. I've seen her do. And then you get to that point past that you know around the halfway point or so and you go. Oh that's why she signed on like the movie actually knows that she's a bit of their secret weapon. And i think uses her very well. Yeah absolutely so. We'll just sort of wrap up. Final thoughts in the film offers As i say going into i was a bit dubious. I don't tend to resonate very well with the stock gritty dramas about the real spies of the world. If he'd be bulk about harry palmer in the past. But this i think the performances really lifted it for me. I was engaged with the film and hopper by the end. I just think. I tip my hat to direction and to the performance of the actors. Yeah i think this is a really entertaining movie. I think people will enjoy of i would imagine a lot of people will not necessarily be drawn to it because it kind of wears kinda that look of the cold war spy film which could look a little slow to people but i think they will be sucked into it in engrossed by It is a really strong character. Piece and i think that people should check it out just for that alone and they may be surprised about some of the you know almost too strange for real life. Facts that actually were the case. Absolutely can if you're a fan of espionage. Australia's all tense dramas. I think this is once checkout. Yeah for sure. It says like two thumbs up from us. Now you may be wondering whether is as we said elliott declassified episodes will not feature the nucleus hopefully we'll be revisiting this film down the road and and really talking to small so i thank you for joining us on declassified episode one next week we have the mackintosh man in another spy movie featuring prison sinoe too so if he liked those stick around and don't forget to follow us discreetly on social media app spy hearts. That's sby h. a. r. d. s. on facebook twitter and instagram. I of course you wanna thank amazon prime for the absurdities checkout film today but until next week listeners. Good luck among the shadows.

Benedict cumberbatch dominic cooke russia jessie buckley oleg penkovsky rachel brosnahan tricia ronin netflix harry palmer hitchcock Cumberbatch moscow kim entry james bond nauseam university dominic Scott ma rainey jesse
Review: Benedict Cumberbatch Is a Spy With Soul in The CourierBut He's Not the Only Reason to Watch

TIME's Top Stories

06:46 min | 3 months ago

Review: Benedict Cumberbatch Is a Spy With Soul in The CourierBut He's Not the Only Reason to Watch

"Brought to you by audible benedict. Cumberbatch is a spy with seoul in the courier. But he's not the only reason to watch by stephanie's jaric the trappings of spycraft. We see in the movies. The tiny cameras. The furtive codewords uttered into payphones. The trench coated figures darting about in the shadows are now so familiar that they come across as anything but secretive but in real life spy has to merge into his or her surroundings like a whisper. You couldn't cast a more convincing spy than benedict cumberbatch. A star whose chief attribute is an aura of charming anonymity. It's not that he's drably a noticeable in simply that his charisma is less bright gold than burnished bronze he's discretion personified with a dash of saf off. Air is is the face of a man who keeps his secrets. Close to the vest and would button yours and even closer in the courier which is based on a true story. Cumberbatch place a businessman who ferried secrets between great britain and the then soviet union during the cold war grell win an engineer and a family man. Recruited by m. I six in nineteen sixty to connect with a member of russian military intelligence named oleg penkovsky. Here played by superb. George an actor mihrab nitsa who alarmed by leaning. Tensions between the ussr and the west had offered secret information about his country's nuclear capabilities. When didn't know exactly what information he was carrying but his mission was still extremely dangerous. In the second half of the courier details the price he ultimately paid until that point. The courier has a jaunty largish quality when gravel is i approached by a cia. And an m. I six agent working in tandem played by rachel brosnahan and angus right. He's more amused than bemused by their poker faced professionalism their aims disguised by almost comically vague language. I can't believe i'm actually having lunch with spies. He says looking from one to the other as if he's already weaving a story to tell his wife sheila a marvelously ri- and subtle. Jessie buckley at the dinner table. That won't come to pass. Rebel is sworn to secrecy though. His mission at first only involves traveling to russia to meet with a group of businessmen and make contact with petkovski whom he'll come to know as alex. The mission seems harmless enough until these pressed into service for further trips bringing top secret information back with them over several visits and one in which alex comes to england the two men get to know one another and become friends gravel and sheila have a son and alex has a family to a wife and a daughter before long gravel has been drawn in both by the sober necessity of his mission. His handlers have scared him manipulative. -ly with horror stories about what would happen to his family in the event of a nuclear attack and by his loyalty to olympics when he's told he's no longer needed a withdrawal. That would leave. Alex dangling with no way to defect to the west with his family. An escape the c. I. a. and m. i. Six had promised to effect. He begs his handlers to let him return to russia. One last time a trip that twists the story into more bre corners directed by dominic cooke and written by. Tom o'connor the courier is almost two films in one. The second half is much darker and more intense than the first but the shift is so delicately abrupt that it i you barely register it. That's part of the movies edge. Really engaging artistry what begins as a shadowy spy adventure ends in a place of mournful resignation. The movie is honest about the decidedly unglamorous side of spying chiefly that it's a line of work in which human beings are often treated as easily discarded pawns and beyond its depiction of the usual spy stuff including those many cameras about the size of disposable lighter which somehow even in an era of digital information still feel small and dangerous. The pictures sober mood is embedded and it's images and a pivotal scene. Alex brings gravel to a performance of swan lake in moscow cinematographer sean bobbitt pits the expressive brightness of the dancers onstage against the tension around tight in grumbles heart which shows on his face in a few discreet but fervent tears an englishman's tears which are either a cliche or one of the deepest expressions of human feeling depending perhaps on. Who's doing the crying when it's cumberbatch. Those tears are deeply believable. Though it's nitsa who sneaks off with the movie in its as list of imdb credits many of them. European english and american tv series is long and he had a starring role and caroline links. Two thousand one drama nowhere in africa overall for purposes. It appears that he's a reliable goto when you need a serious looking russian guy as if there were any other kind but his performance in the courier made me hope to see more of them. In the movies and bigger roles as alex penkovsky he carries infinite gradations of feeling in his eyes. We see his anxiety for his family his sense of responsibility about preventing nuclear destruction but also has tangled love for his country when gravel asks him wear if he were to defect he might like to live. He says montana. he's seen pictures of it. And it reminds him of the countryside he grew up as an examines facets of betrayal and loyalty the courier speaks most directly through. Nasa's is they tell us what it means to love a place that has betrayed you place on the map. You can no longer call home even as your wishes for what it ought to be throb in your heart if you love to learn laugh or just listen to great. Stories of factor fiction audible plus has great listens for every mood and moment with unlimited access to thousands of select. Podcasts audiobooks one of a kind audible originals and the exclusive audibles league collection. You'll always find something new whether it's stories and performances from legendary artists like smokey robinson. And sheryl crowe your favorite true crime podcast or the latest analysis on today's top stories audible plus has it all in one place. Try it free with a thirty day. Trial when you sign up at audible dot com.

Cumberbatch jaric grell oleg penkovsky mihrab nitsa rachel brosnahan angus right Jessie buckley alex petkovski benedict cumberbatch sheila dominic cooke Tom o'connor stephanie russia sean bobbitt Alex cia britain
Fargo

Pop Culture Happy Hour

16:21 min | 9 months ago

Fargo

"The fourth season of fargo stars. Chris rock as lloyd cannon a ruthless kansas city crime boss battling an italian american gang power in the nineteen fifties in order to keep the peace while doing business lawyer and his rival swat their youngest sons as hostages. The sears is both an immigrant tail and a migrant tale view through the familiar lens of a gritty mobster saga though true to the brother sensibilities creator no holly injects it with darkly oddball humor and characters. I'm glen weldon. And i wish harris and today we're talking about fargo on pop culture. Happy hour from npr. So don't go away. this message comes from. Npr sponsor. Ancestry this year. Gather round the family tree with ancestry. Give your loved ones ancestry. Gift membership to let them unwrap their history and discover the fascinating people in their past or surprise them with ancestry. Dna so they can uncover their origins ancestries. Holiday sale is the perfect time to give a gift that connects them to family in new ways. So even if you can't all be under one roof this year come together over your family story. Go to ancestry. Dot com slash. Npr welcome back so the fourth season of fargo or fourth year as creator. No a holly prefers to call each new installment premiered on fx in september. Now if you're familiar with the series you'll know that it is part of the coen brothers. Cinematic universe it's very loosely connected to their nineteen ninety-six movie of the same name and each season takes place in a different era with a new cast of ayla stars in character actors. This time around. Holly moves the action to kansas city and early nineteen fifties. Chris rock plays a black mob syndicate named loy cannon. He challenges the reigning. Italian american gang led by jason schwartzman's justo fata now from these warring factions. We've got jessie buckley playing a nefarious nurse. Timothy allah font playing determine sheriff on the hunt for a couple of outlaws and lots of monologues about what it means to be an american. There is so much going on here. glenn what did you make this season so far. Well i mean just generally speaking. I'm all in for noah hawley as a rule though. If you put a gun to my head which is a thing that happens a lot on the show. I would have to say that. I prefer his other fx series legion. And not just because. It's a superhero riff which it is. But because it's even weirder even more stylized even more idiosyncratic it's also not for nothing funnier when fargo isn't firing on all cylinders when it's not at the peak of its powers it can't help but feel like a coen brothers pastiche and that's unavoidable. I get it. It's in the dna the show. But i think his voice is stronger on legion also legions about mental health and addiction were fargo is about as you mentioned violence capital v. in america capital and i just kind of gravitate toward one more than the other. Now we should note that production of the season was halted by coping nineteen and it started up again later. I've seen some speculation that that might explain why this season feels disjointed. But i think the real issue here is just how overstuffed. These episodes are with storylines and characters. I mean i'm looking at this. Cast list and i stopped counting at twenty five. Which for television. That is a russian novel. I mean that's a lot. They were also supposed to originally just be ten episodes but he realized midway through the season that had too much material so he got fx to agree to do an eleventh episode. I could've told him that was going to happen. Fifteen minutes into the premier season for because it's just so many things going on here and because there are so many very i don't know eight quirky outsized bigger than life characters and just performances which are to be fair. A hell of a lot of fun to watch. You could almost convince yourself that this is a character driven show or even a character study but this has never been that this is a potboiler. It is a purely plot driven machine in which yes as you mentioned characters. Occasionally get to deliver monologues. This season about what. America is but every time that happens i keep thinking about all the storylines. We haven't caught up within a long time like what's going on with the nurse. What's going on with the prison. Escapees and i usua- what the hell's going on with the ghost coming. What is the ghost when we go back to the ghost. Am i forgetting about a ghost I'm always having a good time watching the show. I wanna make that clear. It doesn't look or feel like anything else on television. Even in the prestige era and there is a joy to just kinda laying back and surrendering to these plot mechanics. And the way they intersect for example when a poisoned apple pie gets introduced. You just sit back and wait for the chekhov's pie to pay off when it does. It's really satisfying. But not because you care about these characters right because in a very real sense you don't have enough time with any one character degenerate much for them. In my case. I just admire the craftsmanship of the storytelling but it is a purely intellectual response. So i mean. I think i might actually like this a little bit more than you do. Glenn i will say i almost gave up on it after the second episode. The second episode. There's just so much happening. And there are so many characters. And i'm already very bad with names and faces like michelle was really bad with names. Yes yes in the first episode. They do give you like You know title cards for various characters on their introduced. But that's not really helpful if you're watching a weekly show and not necessarily binging it so i have a hard time. A lot of these. Like henchmen like side characters. Who aren't jason schwartzman. Or chris rock or glenn term and i don't know who these characters are and so i had to follow it now. One of the things that i appreciate about what is trying to do is it is time is familiar story about the american dream blah blah blah. But i feel like there are moments and scenes. That really stood out for me. I came into this very skeptical about chris rock and whether or not he could play this like menacing mob. Boss i have to say most of it is this bias. I have ever since. I saw him in an episode on empire where he's supposed to play a drug lord whose like feared by everyone and he was chris. Rock was not given me fear he was giving me. I'm reading these cards. You can see me reading this line and my voice is disconnected from my body. So i came into it with fat i actually think him and jason schwartzman who is another person. You don't necessarily expect to see playing a mob boss. I think they are doing really interesting things with their roles. They're not menacing. they're not supposed to be menacing there instead. Calculating in jason schwartzman's case his carriage fata is very kind of bumbling and awkward and weird. He kind of gives me roman vibes from succession. Like he's right of squirmy and just awkward and overcompensating. Totally overcompensating and chris rock. He wants to do better for his family. He has all of these ideas. There's a scene early on where he talks about. He actually goes to meet with the bank and the white bank owner and talk about this idea for a credit card. And he's forward thinking he's kind of like the stringer bell of this where he's like. Yeah i'm in this sort of dirty crime business. But i also wanna think ahead and try and like go a different route and take like more business like approach to these things. I liked all of that. I will say that yes. It's trying to tackle so many things at once that it doesn't quite land and neither of you are. I have seen the entire series yet because they made nine episodes available to critics ahead of time. But i kind of wonder we're all this is going to wind up in where it's going to land and it's just there's a lot it's just it's just a lot. It is excess. There is a lot. And i think for me what i was grappling with is the Em four-star distinction between flat characters around characters or. Maybe i should say that the way. It just sounded coming out of my mouth. The forster distinction between flat characters characters. I mean you do need both in fiction and flat characters are your secondary tertiary characters. They serve the plot there a built around a single idea. A single trait a single characteristic. And every time you see them they execute it. They do the same thing. They don't surprise you. they're not built a surprise. You but you want your main characters to be rounded gotta have nuance onset got have fastest. They're gonna grow and they to be capable of making a choice that surprises you. I'm looking around this thing. I see nothing but flat characters. Which is what happens a lot of times when you're doing pastiche satire or farce. I mean jason schwartzman. I agree is great. But you go to jason schwartzman when you want max fisher. The mob boss right. That's going to that guy for. And i agree chris rock. He's surprised me here because he's digging in and he's serving you anger but there's no human what he's doing no nuance and i really liked. The performance of jessie buckley as nurse mayflower. She is not recognizable from when she was in. I'm thinking of ending things. That's a completely different. This actress is huge range. But she's doing a very specific thing every time we see her. It's a hell of a lot of fun to watch but that character is only got that one note to play. The only exception i see possibly is the character of ethel rita. The younger laid by crutchfield. But that character is so kind of impassive. She's not showing us much. I suspect we're going to see something from her. But we're not seeing it yet because we are getting such thin slices of characters. Yeah i think with ethel. Her storyline is also very frustrating because she narrates the very first episode and then she kind of gets pushed to the background for the next couple of episodes when they focus on all the men and the gang warfare. I think to me she is passive. But i also think the relationship. She has with her mom and her aunt. And we haven't even mentioned yet that the two outlaws and i think this is where i kind of really liked the show and the way in which the women get to have fun in some ways but to one of the outlaws. Her name is zilmer roulette and she has a partner slash lover named swanee caps bank robber escapees and they have a really interesting couple of scenes with ethel where they kind of talk about and again. We've already said this. But there's a lot of life we're gonna talk about crime and talk about america and what it means but that really interesting scene where they talk about the difference between being a criminal and being an outlaw and i liked the way they play with that in the way kind of sparks ethel's desire to not be as passive as she is in the first episode and showed there won't spoil it for those who might not be completely caught up but she does kind of take action in a way that i think will propel her story forward hopefully and will make it a little bit more interesting. I wanna talk a little bit about just the way this relates to the fargo universe in general. Now i have to say that i. This is the first time i'm watching. I've seen the movie. Of course. But i have not watched the series and so i'm curious to hear your thoughts. I know you said the legion is something you prefer. But you know when it's firing at all cylinders for you. What does that look like. Based on the past seasons of fargo. What he does is. He usually puts a who is entirely sympathetic. Empathetic in the center of the peace like usually law person who is kind of pursuing justice and as kind of a marge gunderson from the film. Stand in this time. The law giver. We get the main guy. Anyways played by timothy doesn't trump till episode three. You know he goes against what i was saying. He's kind of a rounded character because he's got sides to him some of which are very very ugly one of the things that i really like about this series as it's developed is that there are connections between seasons or years and has connections to the original film but they come to slant they come at oblique angles. And i suspect and we can't talk about this. Because i don't think these episodes of aired yet but i think there is a very clear connection between this season and season two of the show. Yeah yeah we haven't even talked about ben wishaw who plays the irish and i guess what they call him but his his nickname is rabbi. Irishman also brings us to the central conceit of this which is that as we mentioned earlier. The two families swapped sons and took them as hostages just so that they could keep things peaceful and of course this is fargo so things go awry. But the irishman play. Ben wichita is a character who was one of those kids who was traded when his family was part of the like the the war against the italians and so he has like a sort of backstory. There i actually thought he had a little bit more of a rounding as you talk about than some of the other characters do just because he kind of waffles. Back and forth between loyalties and whatnot. And sometimes you don't know necessarily how he's gonna react to it when he's going to do but i also think i just kind of have a a love for ben wishaw anytime. He's in something. I'm just taken by him. Oh i completely share that. Absolutely and he is playing at much closer to the vest. Then a lotta these other are doing and the guy who plays jason schwartzman's brother he's played by salvatore and he is going big he does not have a scene where he is not bugging out his eyes in a very. Unblinking way to be threatening but ben which of course has been with on he. He can do that in certain movies. But certainly that's not his His wheelhouse and at the end of the day though because of that switching of the sons. And how you see how that happens across generations. i am not convinced. This show has as much to say about race as it seems to think it does. It feels like it's pushing these characters into slots as i mentioned before to affect the story beats in stead of having the story grow out of choices these characters make but that's an rn for the long haul. Watch to the end. Even if that end is one episode. Longer than i thought it was going to. I mean to that point about raise. I have to completely agree with you on that. I think that the way in which this show almost always or this season almost always deals with race is through big sweeping monologues. And some of them work glenn term in who is is a great character actor in plays laws. Like right hand man. He has a couple of those scenes where he's talking about. There's one monologue where he talks about being In the war in rubber two and coming back in the double vivere victory and how you know black people were not given what they were promised for fighting for the war and oh man that was probably my favorite scene hands down but then chris rock also has another very obvious one where he's talking about. Oh well you know. We're not just fighting for territory. We're fighting four hundred years of oppression. And i was like i mean yes but do we really need to do. We need to sign the so much. I wish there was just a little bit more nuance but overall the race part aside i really do enjoy a lot of it so i find it very entertaining. Da well we want to know what you think about season for fargo. You can find us at facebook dot com slash p. c. h. and on twitter at p. c. h. m. that brings us to the end of our show. Thank you glenn for being here as we and of course thank you for listening to pop culture. Happy hour from npr. And if you have a second and are so inclined. Please subscribe to our newsletter. Mpr dot org slash hockey culture newsletter. We'll see and that same since the nineteen eighties. Hip hop and america's prisons have grown side-by-side disconnection to see how it lifts us up and holds down hip hop is talking about what we live trying to live the american drain. Thelen at the american dream. I'm sending alan. I'm rodney comart. Listen now to the louder than a riot. Podcast from npr music very chase the collision a rhyme and punishment in america. This message comes from npr sponsor. Three m who continues to expand production of the respirators frontline workers need globally and is on track to supply two billion by the end of twenty twenty more at three m dot com slash cova. Three m science applied to life.

jason schwartzman chris rock fargo jessie buckley lloyd cannon glen weldon loy cannon justo fata Timothy allah noah hawley Npr kansas city glenn term ethel stringer bell america ayla npr max fisher ben wishaw
Mailbag Special: Favorite Acting Performances Ever, Lingering Tarantino Thoughts, and the Dark Future of the Movie Business | The Big Picture

The Big Picture

1:19:51 hr | 2 years ago

Mailbag Special: Favorite Acting Performances Ever, Lingering Tarantino Thoughts, and the Dark Future of the Movie Business | The Big Picture

"Hey kelly welcome to the ringer podcast network season two of h._b._o. Succession is back and the ring chris ryan and jason concepcion are here to give you the latest this and boy family drama every sunday night. They'll be breaking down what we just saw on our new show called number one boy's succession after show you can tune in live on the ringers twitter sure every sunday night right after the episode ends. I'm shawn fantasy editor in chief of the ringer and this is the big picture a conversation show with myself. Amanda dobbins is on vacation and so right now we. We're doing a very special mailbag episode. I won't be quite alone. I'll be joined by bobby wagner. My producer will be throwing some questions at me about the year and movies and movies in general the history of the oscars and all the things that you wanted to know about i want to say i appreciate the depth and thoughtfulness and also desire to make me make lists so they came in these questions. I'm really flattered by the way that people are engaging with the show and i'm really enjoying doing it so this means a lot. Hopefully it will be a fun thing for us to do especially in an absence. I'll try to get as many spiders takes in as i can while she's gone and without further ado bobby you want to jump right into these questions sure let's do it. Let's do it all right. First question. Brian wilson asks now that midst mar and once upon a time have been released. What is your top five films of the year. Look like so far see. This is what i was talking about. Everybody everybody wants you to make a list solidifies brand when you ask for a mailbag guests so top five films of the year so far. I'm not gonna put them in any order because i don't really know and we're not even at a sort of a three quarters turn yet. You know we haven't even rebound to cross. I guess the two-thirds mark of the year in not any order. I think you're wise to put once upon on a time in mid. Some are in the question brian. They both would definitely be there. I'm still chewing on both them. Those are two movies. I've i've seen twice. I probably will see them both the third time this year. That's how you i know when i'm really in love with something. If i go to see it a third time in theaters <hes> in addition to that definitely souvenir which amanda and i have talked about on this show in the past which which is sort of growing in my estimation i finally got a chance to catch up on rebecca mead's profile of joanna hogg in the new yorker which i think in may before the release of the film and just a fascinating portrait of a person who's having a really really unique career as a filmmaker and the fact that she is now making a second souvenir the souvenir part two in this time of overwrought i._p. I find to be a hilarious decision so i'm really looking forward to that. What else besides those three those are locks. I would say they're certainly a case to be made for toy story for which i greatly enjoyed and rapper villain. I discussed on this show at length. There's certainly a case to be made for rolling thunder view the bob dylan martin scorsese documentary that i just inhaled. I quite liked american factory as well well which is a movie that is not quite out yet but it's going to be out very soon on netflix which he'll be able to stream if you're subscriber to that service which is a documentary that chronicles the life cycle of a shuddered american factory that is reopened by a chinese corporation and hires american workers. It's probably one of the most hosts sophisticated provocative looks at life in the american workplace that i've ever seen so. That's on my list right now bobby. What am i forgetting. What are what are some movies that i've gone completely over talk about on this show over the top on the show. I mean you. We all like to last blackman in san francisco. I don't know if that would really crack your top five but in terms of like cinematography that was that really stuck talk to me yeah that was beautiful. I like that. I like that in the farewell or kind of operating in the twin. I have a lot of admiration for this movie twenty four brand where i liked them a lot. I certainly i understand why they have been two of the rare examples of kind of small scale releases that premiered at festivals that have been able to do a little bit of business <hes> a lot of their. You're one of their brethren in their in their sisters have not done quite so well in the marketplace so i have admiration for those movies. I don't know if i am. I am passionately in love with them. In the way that that i am with some more the the farewell i just saw this past weekend didn't get hit before this but i'd be very surprised if that wasn't at least nominated for best original script yeah yeah. I think there's a strong chance there and there's obviously a lot of history with the kind of film like that autobiography biographical. It's not lulu long's first movie but it's your second movie <hes>. It's obviously crossed a lot of boundaries. It's reached a lot of people who would normally get historian so i. I think that's a reasonable bet <hes> i have. I have a scoring system that i keep 'cause. I'm crazy persons since i've got this big document full of all the films that i've seen this year. Let's see how many i've seen by this moment that have been released in this year one hundred and sixty eight so one hundred and sixty eight movies forty eight of these movies have gotten three stars out of a four star system. I'm probably being a little too generous with my scoring is what i've learned so i'm reluctant to put any of the three three star movies on this list. Everything that i've mentioned thus far is either gotten three and a half or four and the only two to get four of course amid some are in once upon a time in hollywood so that's it's the best i can do with answering that question. Those long winded yeah. Did you mentioned her smell. That was your number one with. I take it back also has three and a half stars and yes that would be on my list too. I mean that is almost a sure to be a top ten movie for me yeah before the year is out but we'll see where in the top ten it lands shuttle with moth shoutout elizabeth ma certainly former guests of the the big the big picture okay question number two from dawson. How did you feel about the movie wild rose and do you think the buzz for jessie buckley as potential best actress nominee israel. I don't don't think there is buzz made up. The bus is giving the bus is maybe dawson is a is a burner account jessie buckley. Who is an actress. I quite enjoy and who i whose praises live song on the show. You may have also seen her in her noble. This season <hes> where she played the woman whose husband was badly burned in internal disaster. She's she's an incredible performer. I think i have seen very few performances in which an actor is as good at acting as they are at singing when their character is a singer <hes> she's really. It's a it's a it's a very it's a fine movie and i don't mean that in a pejorative sense. It's it's it's well-made. It's nice. It's kind of uplifting. It's not kind of steal your breath away quality but it's very good and she of course is wonderful. I think it's more star making than it is oscar buzz that being said if the best actress race this year is a little thin and they find a way to kind of burst through and get that little small denomination for her. I think that'd be fine. I'm i'm not i wouldn't bet on it though if i were you what's next for her. Where does she go from here. I don't know should we look at her i._m._d._b. I don't really know what she's got lined up. I mean she's she was in a film in twenty eighteen called beasts which was very well received and she's done a lot of t._v. Work in the u._k. <hes> she is irish and one of the interesting things about her role in <hes> while roses that she's she's thinking scottish person so that's some that's some rare <hes> accent work that you don't always see <hes> <hes> it looks like she is going to significantly be a part of <hes> a fargo season for next year which is kind of interesting. She's also going to be in judy. Which is the forthcoming judy garland bio pic starring renee zellweger and and she's got a little movie on here called the voyage of dr doolittle. Do you know anything about the voyage of dr doolittle bobby do not although that's quite a title so this film is directed and written by stephen engaging who you may recall from syria <hes> you would think that the guy who wrote and directed syrian. We'll be making dr doolittle movie. It's the first movie starring robert downey junior since endgame and and it's ostensibly a remakes reimagining of the dr doolittle fable which was a musical in the sixties starring rex harrison that is about a doctor talk to animals behind the scenes. This is thought to be one of the most complicated productions in recent hollywood history. <hes> this movie started filming a longtime ago. <hes> it's it's been under various stages of re-shoots reimagining over that time. I don't know a whole heck of a lot about it. It was first announced in march of two thousand seventeen so we're now almost two and a half years into the voyage of dr doolittle process <hes> some cast here. Yes we read it off. Tom holland robert downey junior ramey malik michael sheen jessie buckley emma thompson ray fines antonio banderas and then wait look marion cotillard and selena gomez john cena so one thing you got to keep in mind here is that more than half of these people are just doing the voices of animals yeah john cena for example will be appearing as yoshi who is a polar bear <hes> octavia spencer academy award winner will be portraying in dab dab who was dying so you know this is how hollywood goes forward. This is how theatrical releasing hollywood happens. We have to make the voyage of dr doolittle doolittle a two hundred million dollar adaptation of a movie from the sixties and no one likes anymore starring the biggest movie star on the planet as he is deceased as iron man and featuring the voices of john cena rami malik and kumail nangiani heck of a time so for jessie buckley. I dunno. I mean she's the only character on this list that does not have a character name which means maybe her role won't be significantly cleanly big. I like her a lot as an actress though <hes> grant andrews asks are there any upcoming films that no one really knows about like just mercy from destin daniel cretin that <hes> might have a chance at best picture well. That's so hard to say. There are a lot of movies that are in development or being shot or in post production that could would come nothing in development but things that are being worked on at the moment that could come along. There's this movie called wendy. Are you familiar with wendy bobby. No so <hes> ben-zion is the writer and director of a movie called wendy which i believe went into development. Maybe four or five years ago. This is the guy who made of the southern wild in two thousand twelve and in this movie which is being produced by fox searchlight is nowhere to be found. I just don't know what's going on with wendy. It is one of the longest in development movies of all time now if when he just shows up telluride which i don't think it's going to but if something like that were to happen immediately the guy who may be the southern wild has a new film and maybe it it finds its way into the oscar race. I don't really know anything about this movie but that is the kind of game that you have to play when you're doing this likewise movie i'm very interested in is called waves which is a musical all of which i believe stars lucas hedges and sterling brown a certain came around and comes to us from trade results who <hes> famously made krisha and and <hes> a horror film two years ago for twenty four and is a very creative thoughtful guy who operates almost entirely at florida. I don't really know what's going on with this movie except to say that i'm interested and if it comes along and it has a la la land like energy. Maybe it's meaningful another movie coming from fox searchlight nomad land. This is khloe zhao who you may recall from the rider and who is directing the forthcoming marvel film internals. She's got this movie which will star frances mcdormand that is based on a nonfiction book. There was released earlier earlier this decade by all accounts. It sounds interesting sounds like it could be meaningful. I don't really know anybody who knows when it's coming out or what stage of development it's an presumably khloe. Zhao has moved onto a terminals or is about to so i would those are three kind of random ones. <hes> there are some others that we just don't know a ton about but we know are coming. The laundromat matt directed by steven. Soderbergh is a movie that i don't think many people have seen that is about the panama papers and you know that's kinda got the profile of a movie that could be a big oscar film stars meryl streep but it's going straight to a streaming service. It seems like soderbergh's a very experimental phase of his career so we'll just have to wait and and see what happens so that's my best my best three or four examples of things that we we don't see coming now. Maybe some of those movies don't come out until twenty twenty three. That's that's also in play. Yeah you mentioned lucas. Yes hedge. What say you about honey boy. Briefly <hes> haven't seen it yet. Okay can't win this of course is the autobiographical story of shabbat life in which shiloh above plays his own father and it's about a young actor going through the stages of development and having some success in having some troubles some trials those who have seen it have told me that it is a very powerful and intense film bobby. I think you've seen it yeah. It's extremely intense and it's also like a dual timeline film so lucas hedges playing i mean i guess like twenty something shiloh above and then there's a child actor whose name i can't recall off the top of my head but he's playing younger child. Stars charlotte buff and shi'as is performance. I think a lot of the questions have been shown going to be nominated. <hes> what and you know frankly it's hard to say because on the one hand i think there's been a long-term understanding all all the way going back to his days as the star of even stevens and holes all kid stuff connex stuff for my generation connex he that he is like a sincerely passionately talented onto performer viewers of project greenlight may recall his role as the star of the film that they made in the first season of project greenlight and he just he has a magnetism the actor that you're talking about by the way ah plays young otis is nino joop which people may recognize from quite <hes>. Oh yeah no would you very good actor. As far as shy though you know shy is the sole writer of this film and i think people will be impressed by his brave nece in putting the story onscreen he is you know he's a problematic dude. Though you know he's done a lot of things in the past whether they be comments that he's made or things he's been accused of or legal practices or accidents or the way that he's operated inside of big studio projects that have put a little bit of controversy around him. <hes> i'm sharing this kind of a value neutral way that may become trying for him as he goes into an oscar campaign. It's really hard to say because we're once those things would be deemed <hes> an opportunity to overcome overcome struggle now. They may lead to someone like him. Being quote unquote cancelled so i don't know yeah. I guess i mean only a couple years ago. Gary oldman one for portraying winston churchill chill to problematic dudes. I think the thing that maze maybe more of a hangup oscar wise is that like the oscars don't always want this much honesty in their films and this film is very honest and he's portraying his father who was <hes> emotionally and physically abusive to him when he was a child so i don't. I don't know if that might fly. It's definitely not a feel-good oscar great movie. No though it is the kind of supporting performance that is usually recognized you know if lucas hedges is not recognized. It's possible that shy himself will be because the wanna reward that kind of that raw portrayal that he's going for but you know as i said i have not seen the movie so it's a little hard for me to say yay or nay what's next <hes> a lot of people ask this question so this is from andrew july and many many others but <hes> they wanna know they're interested in hearing what you've learned if anything from your project of watching every academy award best picture nominee omni in history which you've mentioned a few times on this podcast as well as a few times on the re watchable so what did you learn. I've learned that i learned two things bobby one. There are a lot of fucking movies have been nominated for oscars a serious endeavor for you. I don't know how you did it i done. I'm not going to claim to be done. Hundreds of films nominated for best picture. It hasn't hasn't helped that. They've increased the number of films that are nominated for best picture now <hes> i the other thing i've learned is that most of these are bad and the what we perceived to be a great film has changed a lot over time but the thing that is unmistakable is that the oscars have always been political and i don't mean that in the sort of republican and democrats sense ends of the word i mean that in terms of what gets spotlit at award shows and why and the fact that there has been machinery behind films forever there the studios and the people who work on the margins of the industry that work hard to push for awards. It's evident when you look back at some of the <hes>. Some of the nominee is now. We've spent a lot of time on this show and on the rewatch ables griping about illegitimate wins or things that we would do over again or what have you what we don't account for is the kind of the small mall stuff in the middle. You know like let's let's choose a random year and analyze the best films from that year so in one thousand nine hundred eighty one here the films that were nominated waited for best picture chariots of fire atlantic city on golden pond raiders of the lost ark and reds now. I didn't have to rewatch any of these movies or i oh. I didn't have to watch any of these movies for the first time when i was embarking upon this. I'd already seen them but what happened. What's happening inside. That fivesome isn't interesting microcosm of hollywood at the time right. You've got a a very stood sort of serious british historical drama which won best picture. You've got a french tours kind of cd steamy me <hes> romance crime film. You've got on golden pond. Which is this treaties on aging. You've got raiders of the lost ark which is like a whiz bang entertainment even very classical throwback and you've got reds which is a deep historical american epic and you know nine hundred eighty. One is a very interesting thing year in movies. Are those the five best. I don't know i mean this is the senior. That stripes was released. This is the same year that time bandits was released. This is the same year. The cannonball run was released arthur superman too. You know it's it's a very complex collection movies and what you realize is what i've realized really the going back and trying to watch all these movies is not necessarily good use of my time because it's not necessarily telling me about what hollywood was at that time. What it's telling me is what the oscars was and that then then requires a second level of investigation so i think i'm just learning that <hes> all things are political. That's my big takeaway. That's fair. The era of twitter <hes> so be mac wants to know beam ac venezia. Can we have a brief mid. Some are spoiler discussion as listeners of this podcast will recall we had a spoiler free ish episode episode featuring chris ryan and the director reactor <hes>. He wants to know your thoughts on the ending because they didn't get in the spoiler free episode so it's been like a month right. We can despoilment tamar. I guess if you don't want to hear my thoughts on the ending of this movie just just bang that thirty second button. I guess go forward jump ahead. I don't wanna be labor knbr too much. You know obviously. I thought it was brilliant. If it's on my top five of the year so far less i think that our aster has a very distinct sense sense of the comically absurd and i found particularly the last thirty minutes of the movie to be very funny and very twisted in a in a knowing way and whereas i thought the final couple of minutes of hereditary were pretty funny i thought the whole day numa of of <unk> mar to be like pretty much a comedy now a grotesque protests and elaborate and certainly ridiculous comedy but you know if people are asking about if be mac is asking specifically about kind of that final moment or florence pew looks at gazes into the camera and her stone faced look you know turns into a bit of a mona lisa smile and then we get this feeling of exaltation from her her. I think that that was appropriate about for a movie about a toxic relationship yeah i did. You have any reflections on bobby. Well i mean you pitch it to me a few different times as has <hes> a relationship test and i actually ended up seeing it with my significant other who said afterwards if that's a relationship has for you you might not in the best relationship well. That's why that's why i said that because i do think that there will be people who will walk out of that movie who were on like their eleventh date and they may disagree about how they feel about that move. I can't imagine being on a date with him. I don't know that well with that movie. <hes> i think what you said is right about the movie about <hes> the last twenty ish minutes being thing <hes> actually rather comically absurd. That's a really nice way of phrasing it. <hes> i don't know if there's probably a lot of crossover between listeners of this podcast and the twenty four podcast but are yesterday's conversation about making that film with robert eggers who made the lighthouse. I don't think that's how it yet but i'm seeing it today. Wow well big day big day <hes> their conversation about just his mentality making that film wyatt's this follow up to hereditary the blending of genre how he keeps getting asked about genre <hes> fans of that movie we should go listen to that episode of the podcast. Yeah i agree <hes>. I also really love the one film i've seen from robert eggers. He made the which <hes> those to spend a lot of time on that podcast is talking about ingmar bergman which i find funny because <hes> i don't sense a ton of bergman in the tonality of their movies i i sense it in the sort of austere quality some of the way that they fill movies but and there is a kind of hysterical nature to some bergman movies but it's different and astor the person that he has cited did not just on this movement on the last movie to as being a significant influence that is really resonate for me is albert brooks and albert brooks operating especially early albert brooks modern romance romance and real life those films and the heavy dose of satire that he's putting on those films feels of a piece with where he's going <hes> so yeah i i loved midsummer. I thought it was extr- an extraordinary act of creativity. I think he is a bit of a ghoul in a good way ari. I think he knows that he's kind of trying to haunt people a little bit and i think he relishes that even though if you've heard him on the show you know he's just like a very kind guy fun guy to talk to you about movies. He's got his his eyes on some <hes>. I think i think some big things i'm very. I'm very excited to see what he does next yeah. Visually that movie is unbelievable. It's one of the best i've seen on any screen ever ever totally <hes> alright. Let's jump ahead <hes> evan cunningham. What is your level of excitement for adam drivers to new movies coming this year the report and marriage story and where is he in the ranks of best actors. There's word today. I know you're a big <hes> adam driver fan. I'm on the record about this. This is the best movie star that we have right now. That's my take now. I don't think that we define it in the same way that we would say brad pitt. There's all this brad pitt conversation station going on right now. Well round once upon a time hollywood. How even this character who is theoretically a very bad person has is so magnetic that were were judging the film based on his his aura uh-huh and i don't think that adam driver has the same kind of practical beauty and charisma that somebody like brad pitt does he's a little bit more of humphrey bogart which is to say that he is not traditionally handsome whenever he's doing things on screen you just can't take your eyes off him and if he's being a son of a bitch you're interested and if he's being sweet you're interested and if he is tearing the room apart as he didn't girls many times you're interested and if he is a dark lord you're interested and you know he's. He's very very very funny and another movie called the dead. Don't die. Which was jim jarmusch zombie comedy and you mention. He has a komo more than he's got a few movies coming out this year. I mean if we look back on what he's done so he obviously was oscar. Nominated for black klansman that was that was twenty eight hundred two thousand nineteen the man who killed don quixote a movie that kind of came and went even though it has all this mythology around it <hes> terry gilliam's long long long just dating story about got a filmmaker who is making a movie about don quixote and his experience with them thalji interesting movie not one of my favorites and then he's got. We've got the report. Which did you see that it's about did see at sundance indents so that's a forthcoming amazon drama about the c._i._a. <hes> we will get into that when the movie comes around. It's a little like a spotlight in terms of setting like you feel you like you're in an office in very confined just like the hard work that went into that <hes> happening within the cia and how much pushback there was <hes> you know correcting acting the record for zero dark thirty a little bit it does seem to be in conversation with that movie and it's that's from scott z burns who is a longtime steven soderbergh collaborator her and screenwriter making. I believe historial debut. I could be wrong about that <hes> and so. I'm looking forward to that. I i like a good docudrama. I like a good claustrophobic. Confined spaces brite telling of history. I'm i'm not immune to that marriage. Story is the one i'm most interested in <hes>. We'd amanda and i mentioned it on the show a couple of times. I'm obviously incredibly enthusiastic. Ask about noah baumbach work. I am also notably a child of divorce and i do love when a child of divorce makes a child of divorce film <hes> the comparison. That's been made to me by some folks who have been around the film is that it is his kramer versus kramer. Noah back of course went through a very. I don't know about a public divorce but he was married to jennifer jason leigh. Who's a public person and i think the film is in some ways <hes> you know at least iterating on the experience of going through something like that and it doesn't just start stars driver and it it stars scarlett johansson and it stars laura dern as a lawyer and people really want this movie to be a thing so we'll see if it's going to be a thing i i'll watch driver in anything you you know. Let's not lose sight of the fact that he's also going to be appearing the rise of skywalker which comes out in december ever heard of it so you know i mean who's who's better than this guy. He works with terry gilliam. Jim jarmusch spike lee no bound back and he's in a star wars movie. What more can you ask for from a modern star yeah. He's picking them up and put them down. If you want to divide the ringer podcast carr's office us podcast producers lake the most of his thing that's ever happened is is adam driver hot that question being posed to the room so <hes> will think on that for a little bit good news is. I don't have to weigh in on that question. You're not obligated to now by no means all right. Jordan eckerd asks for your top. Turn your brain off comfort flex so movies. You don't have to think about now <hes> but give you all the feels. I like the way that this question is phrased. It's different from the next question which i'll get into a little bit <hes> turn your brain off comfort flex your the three movies i wrote down. I wrote down anchorman get shorty in dazed and confused. Now i think get shorty is getting a little lost a time. Though it's a wonderful movie it's an adaptation of elmore leonard novel <hes> and it is different than i think most other elmore leonard adaptations we think more leonard and we think jackie brown or out of sight. There's something kind of cool and stylish and subtle and come steamy about it. Get shorty is more of a satire. It's more of a satire of hollywood. It's very pop. It's very zippy. It's got tremendous. John travolta rene rousso gene hackman and danny devito performances <hes>. It's got a great early. James gandolfini performance in it <hes> that's a movie that for whatever reason i owned it on v._h._s. and like nineteen ninety-five right in the throes of the john travolta revival. This is the first film i believe he made right after pulp fiction happened. He plays chili chili palmer who is a kind of a kind of a fixer for the mob kind of muscle for the mob but he also collects money and he's got a history doing a lot of different kinds of jobs and he comes out to hollywood after living in miami and there's just a rhythm to that movie that calms me <hes> anchorman. I don't really need to explain ackerman right. Anchorman is is well understood stood as a as a masterpiece that also doesn't require much brain were isn't in will ferrell's still doing t._v. Hits as anchorman. I think people are well aware of why that successful in twenty nine thousand. There's a ron burgundy podcast cast <hes>. I did know that actually if you've been a listener i have not i think he had kamla harrison last week so does he just i'm unaware of it as a concept what does he the what is the elevator interview people as ron burgundy presumably. Maybe i should check it out. I'm not into like fantasy pods. It's not really a fantasy pod because interviewing real people as themselves however <unk>. He's playing a character. I've got some bad news for you. This is a fantasy version of myself and for those of you who know me in the real world. You know that perhaps my podcast persona is slightly different now. He's like this all the time. Now it's not true and i wrote down dazed and confused i. I don't explain these things too much right. These are wonderful so there's this whole history of other kinds of movies that i've had probably that relationship to over the years aliens and terminator two things the teenage boys watch when they grow up in the eighties and the nineties. I don't re- turn to those things that much honestly. I don't do this that much. I feel like there's so much new work to see and i love seeing new things and understanding new things and we have never had an opportunity to see as many things as we do now for if you just pull the total sum that you pay for the most significant streaming services. Let's say it's three hundred dollars a year so for three hundred dollars hours year. You can have the criterion collection probably soon to be disney plus net flicks. If you just take those three things you could never watch one one thousandth of all of the offerings of those spaces so i don't have a lot of time to kind of re watch anchorman unless we're doing rewatch ables yeah. I don't do the shut your brain off comfort flick wamba myself. If i'm with friends. Maybe i'll do it sometimes and i did it a lot more like a routine in high school school with friends or whatever like going to bed just thrown role models or throw on super bad super battles making a lot of those dumb high school boy movies that you love. That's what i need to like. Maybe turn my brain off a little bit. Yeah and you know i'll i'll send a shout out to my wife. Who has something called kitchen movies which that whenever she is preparing dinner or or working on a new recipe project or baking something she just puts on the t._v. in the kitchen and it only goes on when she needs to watch kitchen movie her kitchen movies are so different from the movies that i would watch just yesterday. She watched in education <hes> she watches routinely the david lee movie briefing counter. She watches the before sunset sunrise trilogy all the time. That's a different different tonality than the kind of movie. I want on in the background when i'm trying to do something else so for everybody. It's different what's next so similar. What are some of your guilty pleasure movie so it's like a little bit of a different flavor of the question. Guilty pleasures don't exist bobby. That's not a thing that we subscribe to. If you like something you like it and you need to stand forward and say i i am guilt free and liking this thing hello this take in general. I reject the premise <hes> that said this person is named trae turner nader which as mets fans we don't. We don't recognize the that's why i didn't read it. That's not this come on <hes>. I will say that there is certainly a kind of movie that i like that. I don't feel guilty about but i think is trying to what trae he's trying to get at which is the sort of like faceoff broken arrow conair dumb action movie. It's the kind of movie that i'm not routinely invited onto for the rewatch watchable because no one wants to hear about the cinematography choices of those movies but i do have admiration for them. I do like them and i. I have a lot of fun and i love particularly shay. Serano is ability to make excited about those kinds of movies and you know. I think one thing that has happened to is let me positive theory too you know in the two thousands in music writing which is something that i spent most of my time doing back. Then <hes> optimism came to the fore the idea that popular music <hes> <hes> is not inherently bad and has a value and it has a critical value when we can understand the world a little bit better if we look at the totality of music through a similar lens and we don't just dismiss things out of hand because they are inherently commercial. I think that movies quietly are having it's popped moment and i think the ability ability to say you know what's really valuable is john wick. Yeah you know what's really valuable is some of the storytelling choices in endgame and the way that we are valorising popular movie culture in a significant way and i think that some of the things that we do here are contributing to that. I think is absolutely contributing to that the sort of high level engagement engagement sincerity and a little bit of intellectualism sprinkled on stuff like conair <hes> so i don't think guilty pleasures anymore. I think that that's a whole category that is kind of bunk. You wouldn't call katy perry a guilty pleasure anymore. You just say she's a person. I like or not like if the if you are living in two thousand nineteen <hes> the fact that that is going on right now is interesting interesting to me now. There is still a kind of <hes> movie that it's not necessarily reputable to say you like. I think it's probably mostly problematic ish movies but it like. I saw bright burn this year. Did you see that bobby. No i did not bright. Burn is a sony superhero movie. It's sort of like what if superman but he's evil and superman as a kid and we see the origin of a super powered young boy who breaks bad. It's a will name movie. It's a nasty bit of business. It's just a really tough violent and gory movie and the kind of movie that when i was sixteen i really loved and i still have a little bit of admiration for it. I think it's hard to you know step forward on social media and say the movie i fucking loved is bright burn because it indicates a little something a little cracked about you even e. and it's different than something like metsamor which is deeply artistic. <hes> breaker is more exploitative in a in a specific way with movies so i guess the data's is the closest that we can come to this kind of like modern guilty pleasure but as i said i don't really think that that's a real thing yeah your optimism point while taking the fact that i've read like ten articles in my life about gun fu which is like what they call. The fighting style of john wick absolutely just goes to show. I think that there's much more wide. Lee accepted critical thought about these types of things no doubt off. I think the concept of guilty pleasure movie kinda shifts on what the group of people who are around you right like i felt like top gun was a guilty pleasure for me at n._y._u. Which was ridiculous because that's not a guilty pleasure at all. It's a perfect movie but i think it depends on. Who's who you're talking to yeah. I think it's the way that we deem something useful. Invaluable has changed a lot too there for a time. I think a lot the people especially when they're growing up and don't necessarily know how this industry works as much think that the oscars is the barometer against which you measure quality and we know that's not turn now but i think as you get older and you see more kinds of films you see more foreign films. You see more documentaries. You see more things that are not necessarily fully commercialized. You have a different understanding of what's good not good and you can realize that the concept of unintentional comedy as it applies to topgun makes a better and it's okay to be excited about something being kind of bad because it makes makes it even better. I'm gonna have so hard for that. In twenty twenty speaking of that alan villa asks what is most anticipated twenty twenty movie for you rumor or otherwise plus. I wrote this down quickly. Here's my list last night in soho. That's garrett's new movie the lot of admiration for acre right does i think you're right is trying to do the same thing that tarantino's doing. He's he's trying to create an event at the movie theater and that was what baby driver wasn't even. If you had some problems with with baby driver he was trying to create a theatrical experience. It is full of energy so i'm very curious to see what he does there. I wrote down newark you familiar with newark now. I'm familiar with newark the place and unfortunately the international airport but not the film so i've never been to new york's not going to weigh in on it but i do believe that that is the current title and maybe they've changed the title at this point of the sopranos prequel. Oh okay yes. I'm familiar with that so this is the james gandolfini character tony soprano's father. I think is the significant figure in the story. <hes> this has been long just dating <hes> like most human beings. I'm a huge fan of the sopranos. I'm fascinated by david chase's career and everything he's chosen to do. I think david chase's last movie not fade away is he's one of the already kind of like lost classics of this decade. I wrote about it for grand back in the day and i really admired what he was going for and this is gonna sound like a strange comparison but i think it has a little bit in common with euphoria especially the ending of euphoria for season and the ending of this movie not fade away so i'm used this as a as a shadow to fade fade away into my interest in david chase couple of other movies. Here's a dumb movie that i'm looking forward to and it's called the gentleman this guy ritchie's movie at cinema con. I saw a preview of this film and even though it's not coming out i think until january twenty twenty and i'm just i'm all the way in i'm it's. It's colin farrell. It's hugh hugh grant. It's charlie hunnam just being dashing tweeden bearing drug dealer monster guys great and it looks in the vein of the snatch and lock stock guy ritchie which she has not been doing enough of lately as we know from our aladdin podcast other relevant figures in this movie include matthew mcconaughey henry henry golding who you may remember from crazy rich asians michelle dockery with whom i am in love from downton abbey and germy strong or number one boy just a a lot of handsome dudes going to be wearing tweed lotte handsome guys in tweet so that's <hes> late january twenty twenty. I wrote down nightmare alley. There's some news about nightmare alley. Which is <hes> komodo toro's next film his first film after the shape of water <hes> this movie is going to star bradley cooper. It's based on a novel from the nineteen forties. There has been already a an adaptation of this movie from nineteen forty starring tyrone power. This is a very twisted film about what happens inside of carnivals and tries to penetrate the world of <hes> conman and chicanery and it's going to be a period piece set in the forties and i'm very very excited about it. Even though i think you're on with oh toro has lost my trust a bit in the last couple years <hes> of also randomly when els the the invisible man. I think one of the more underrated genre stylist the idea of him doing a classical horror. Movie is interesting to me. I mentioned khloe zhao's at terminals as far as the the marvel movies that are coming in the near future that is by far the one that has piqued my interest the most there is now a bang up cast and he terminals full of very very famous people <hes> including angelina jolie and richard madden and camille nanjiani and a whole bunch of other people. I mentioned waves as well. I don't know one waves waves is gonna come out. It might be this year might be next. The trae results film also wrote down tiger tail which is alan yang's netflix movie which i don't know a whole heck of a lot about but i did really admire forever the the series the mini series that he made for amazon starring rudolph in fred arnesen and of course allen has appeared many times on the dave chappelle show and he was a writer on parks and iraq and he was a co ep and writer director on master of none as he's on sorry series just a greater and so i'm very interested to see what he does when he's got a everything at his fingertips yeah. I'm quite a fan of the wholesomeness of his storytelling. In many different occasions is sincere fellow. You can tell yeah <hes> okay. Nick adams asks six and many other people asked us. What is your rewatch ables passion project that no one will agree to do so a little bit of inner working here at the rare that you're trying to lob before i. I honestly don't know i don't really want to do there will be blood for obvious reasons. I think that there will be blood is masterpiece of the twenty first century. I don't think that bill was opposed to it. <hes> i think the bills trying to cycle through every last damn michelman movie before we get a chance to do that which is fine gonna fire all the bullet out of the chamber. The thing is is if bill does black hat before i you get a chance to do there will be blood. <hes> i'm going to be very concerned about my future. You know that's just one of those things you know. Michael man is brilliant director and i admire great many of his films. I understand the desire to do the last of the mohicans and there's a handful of others that he hasn't done a final thing has been remarkable. I just there will be blood needs to happen and i'm waiting on that. I i've already created so many podcasts and content options here and at cranleigh in an effort to talk about there will be blood. I wrote about the tenth anniversary of the film. We did a two thousand and seven seven top fives podcast here. I just really love digging my teeth into that movie so that's that's. That's my hope. I don't think no one's agreeing to per se but that's where i wanna go a two thousand seven. The top fives podcast for you to talk about there will be blood is just like shifts kiss. You know my lifestyle okay here. A few different people ask about this. Schwartz is being one of them <hes> suggestions from the criterion channel. You've talked about it a few times. A lot of people who listen to this podcast probably have it myself included in it can be kind of wall of old movies that you don't know that well so are there a few that stick out or if you filmmakers out for you. It's so hard to do this because it's so hard to know what people are not familiar with. I'm always surprised surprised by some people have an extraordinary depth of knowledge about the work of akira kurosawa but they don't know anything about nicolas roeg right. So how do you decide what to say. You really really should watch this because there are certain canonical films that i think people are familiar with but maybe they're not the first handful that i wrote down where the red shoes powell and pressburger film and bicycle thieves leaves which are to significantly different non hollywood productions that are striking and sort of their beauty and their intimacy and their importance to the future of filmmaking and their films are from the forties and fifties and <hes> i would just plainly recommend those to any living person i would just say watch the reg dare you to watch the red shoes and not be moved then. There's some other things that are passions of mine that other people may be interested in or not. I wrote down there which is pedroia motive our film kind of preparing for painting glory his new movie coming up. I think there are six or seven almodovar's films on the criterion channel right now. I don't think he'd really do poorly to watch any of them. I wrote down the manchurian candidate which is actually a criterion collection. Blu ray that i spent hard earned money on because i i love that movie so much. It's john frankenheimer her. <hes> sort of espionage paranoia thriller from the early sixty s that is one of the most sophisticated complicated evocations nations of <hes> political insanity that you can ever see and certainly feels relevant to this exact moment. I wrote down aguirre the wrath of god which is one of the masterpieces astra pieces made by a former big picture guest verna herzog. If you wanna see klaus kinski going for it check out aguirre the wrath of god and then you know the one of the great things that the service does is they organize certain collections by director. I'm obviously obsessed with directors. That's why i'm talking to so many of them. On this show. I just done a handful that would be good. I mentioned herzog. I mentioned nicholas rogue who passed away earlier this year and who adam neiman has written about for the site directed movies like walkabout and don't look now performance <hes> the man who fell to earth i. I don't think you can go wrong with any of those movies. Those are all in the service. I wrote on carol reed families cavalry bobby. I'm not so carol reed's the director of the third man which is my favorite move. You've all time and he has a very underrated career. The third man which i believe is celebrating its seventieth anniversary in about a month is widely understood as one of the best movies ever made but he's got a few more that are a little bit under seen include odd man out in the fallen. Idol are the two that i would really really early underlying and i would also point out <hes> our man in havana which is a great alec guinness movie that also appears on the criterion channel so that's just a handful of recommendations and then the aforementioned enjoy a hog her three movies before the souvenir. They're unrelated archipelago an exhibition. I would say brace yourself for a kind of stillness. These are not the most active films homes that you can watch but they're really really precise evocations of people who have a a wellspring of feeling inside of them but don't know how to let it get out. There is a a high level of english repression happening in these films so if you're interested in that check out john hawkes movies. That's just a smattering of stuff that i quickly looked at and enjoyed. Are there directors actors that you have a hard time watching multiple of their films in a row like i watched there will be blood a couple of weeks ago and i was like i should really just go back and watch a bunch of p._t._a. Movies and then i went to go watch them and i was like i feel like i need to marinate. There will be blood for a little longer before i jump right back into phantom threat because you fine. It's better to unpack them. Yeah because i find i don't wanna be necessarily early. Making all the connections between there will be blood and boogie nights. Yeah i mean generally speaking. I don't do director marathons yes so i don't. I don't even really know why why that is. I think the only time i'll do it is preparing writes something or to do an episode of the show. Yeah what you do often do but i don't do it in a way where i sit down and say what i'm gonna do right now is watch thirty ingmar bergman films in <hes>. I it really depends on the filmmaker joy. It would be tough to sit down and do a joanna. Joanna hogg marathon for me because those films are so quiet and i. I like all other people. I'm easily distracted despite my desire to watch foreign films all day into watch slow cinema. I still see i can get really bored. I you know i and i think if you watch movies that are recommended and you're like. I'm really bored right now. That's okay. It's okay to feel that way <hes> but but as far as somebody who who'd be tricky to watch a lot of their films in a row well it's probably for the opposite reason you know if you look at say mike nichols mike nicholls movie has a world of pain anxiety operating just under the surface and you have to let it sit for a little awhile before you go to the next one so that's probably a filmmaker. I really like who i need to chew on a little bit after i've seen more movies. Today's episode of the big picture is brought to you by masterclass. 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The all access pass that's master class dot com slash big picture for for unlimited access to masterclass thirty dollars off masterclass dot com slash big picture all right. Let's jump to <hes> we had a whole category of tarantino questions that people responded with because <hes> once upon time in hollywood has been on the mind yeah uh-huh not some feedback from our most recent podcast. Some people said great job by you. I love you some other. People said fuck off and die so you know you're doing because you're doing it right all right. <hes> doritos asks love or is this aderito snow. It's not there's a z at the end out now. <hes> has there always been this type of discourse with every new tarantino tarantino movie or is this a new invention of this decade. <hes> this is normal <hes> it's amplified because we have social media now and we did not win. Pulp fiction came out but this is normal. I mean he's a provocateur and he's literally attempting to get a reaction out of you. That is part of his strategy actually talked about that a bit on quentin tarantino's feature presentation the show that amy nicholson did with him that you did as well and i don't you know i think that's great. Marseille's also a provocateur curse. I was also a provocateur or the best film. Makers are trying to get you to feel and to respond so i think that is he. Problematic aspect of this is also not new people have been adjudicating whether his movies are too violent island ever since michael madsen cut that ear off in reservoir dogs so you know part of the reason i think i was a little bit exasperated by the some of the commentary at around the last movie is because i just feel like we've done this before and there are few filmmakers can give me as excited about the work that they're doing as he can and so i think that while it's not the criticism is not illegitimate intimate. I just was a little bit bored by it. <hes> let's head to j. Merit asks tonight. He says china china agree. That lewis performance in once upon a time in hollywood is one of his best. You mentioned that that one on our review of the of the movie <hes> where do you think pits ranks among the roles that he played on this is challenging when you think pits performances is a little more of a cipher for how you feel about the rest of the movie in this right like louis performances objectively just unbelievable but i think it is kind of at more of the same speed as the film. I think that's fair. I think pit is not given as he's not plumbing. The depths in the same way that leo leo has to act extravagantly he has to cry. He has to wale. He has to scream. He has to doubt himself. Yes to be furious and delighted and scared. Pit is a is cool as lake placid acid. You know he is all on the surface calm. Confident maybe a little evil and so while it's an strong evocation of brad pitt stardom. I don't know if it's necessarily in his greatest performances. I think it's one of his greatest star turns and there's a big difference there. So how does it relate to something like moneyball. You know money while he was nominated for an oscar. I think he was very similar in moneyball. I think he was very calm very even keeled not going out of his way to do things. It's a little different from something like the assassination asian of jesse james by the coward robert ford where he's applying an accent. He's lost a great deal of weight. He is melancholy and mysterious areas and angry and he's. He's flexing a lot more muscles. <hes> i also think he's very very fun and something like fight club which may feel a one sided but by the time you get to the end of the film realize. He's doing a lot of different things so. I don't know where this fits in like his his long-term filmography. I think people will point to it as one of his great star turns which is really what his career has been about <hes>. There's always been a conversation about how he's a character actor hanging out in a leading man's body but i would argue that this is more of a leading man performance than anything else. It's way more of a steve mcqueen performance not a lot of dialogue looking cool all the time beaten up the hippies doing things that only a cool guy can do <hes> so it's it's in the top twelve but i don't really know what that means. In an oscars montage santosh of brad pitt's career at some lifetime achievement award three years from now or whatever what movie place i what is his most iconic performance that you associated with him. This is a very good question. Well it. It comes into phases. There is the legends of the fall thelma and louise interview with the vampire seven the era when he has a hot young ninety star and then there is the guy who receives a little bit from that stardom. I'm and takes on more challenging work now. I think the sort of most quote unquote respectable thing he's ever done is the curious case of benjamin button <hes>. That's the one where people will say not a fan of that movie. I it's my least favorite future <hes> but i do think that that's the one where he is going for the most as an actor and i think additionally inglorious bastards is probably one of the most well remembered movies he's made and has the most <hes> i think especially for people like us as he gets older and we start valorising him. We're going to point to a movie like that. We're gonna point to ocean's eleven point two probably movies like once upon a time in hollywood the tree of life. I can see being a factor here certainly moneyball since he was nominated. You know i think for some people they'll point to like world war z. or the counselor but i probably won't think i would point to ocean's eleven just him being cool as shit is just like that's what i think if i think give brad pitt even when i see him on the cover of a magazine or whatever when i'm checking out at vence yeah i mean that's it's always been part and parcel. He's been simultaneously feeding off of inamori against that exact thing his entire career which is what makes him interesting so kind of in the same vein true stories. I made up asks. Which actor do you think tarantino gets. The most out of so we talked about brad talked a little about a little little bit about leo's performance are either of these guys in the running for that is all time time any of his films well. I think his great muse is definitely samuel jackson. I think the actor with whom when he gets the most and who is most comfortable doing the tarantino dialogue thing is sam jackson <hes> i i wish them jacksons in all of his movies the jewel i i think we've are actually underrating how amazing jewels winfield is a character and an performance from jackson. So that's a person who you know same jackson's a great and everything it's not as if he we diminish greatly when he's not an tarantino movie but man he is just fabulous even the hatefully which is not really in my upper echelon chalon of tarantino movies. He is extraordinarily good in that movie and yet so mesmerizing so mesmerizing django also movie that i don't love but he's he's just so compelling to watch and he has such a almost preternatural grasp of how to deliver those words that that would be my my go-to pick. I think he's you know obviously he has a great thing with <hes> likewise mia wallace you look at the performance that she's giving me a walson pulp and they they have they have something you know they just she gets what he's going for and he's lucky to have her. You know he's lucky to have somebody who has that kind of grace. Wit who can communicate kind of a sloppiness is linus and intelligence in that way because that's what he needs. He needs all his characters to be pretty smart. Yeah okay last tarintino question from steven orchid. Where does the once upon time in hollywood soundtrack rank for you amongst the tarantino films and now you're a huge fan of the once upon a time soundtrack stephen. Thank you for this question. Thank you for leaning right into my interest. <hes> i made a quick last year for this <hes> kill bill once upon a time in in hollywood pulp fiction reservoir dogs proof jackie brown. I'm not fond of the django soundtrack. I don't think that <hes> the soundtrack for employers bastards really applies here though there are a handful of more coney moments that i really like <hes>. What am i forgetting from this list. I think that's i think that's the sun total. Kill bill to me is the most effective not because it's the most fun to listen to. It's not the most fun to listen to. I think pulp and reservoir dogs are the two most fun to listen to those are also the ones i listened to a lot as a young person so there are interwoven into my dna at this point but kill bill has the most examples of tarantino taking something that existed in the culture previously and making it his own in a radical way now that includes things like more coney soundtracks from spaghetti westerns that you haven't thought a lot about but also includes you know bernard hermann score from the nineteen fifties it includes the themes onto the green hornet which which people think now is was recorded for kill bill but it was recorded in fact for the show that appears in the movie once upon a time in hollywood with bruce lee <hes> he he takes the pan flute artisan fear and makes that music feel endemic to his own movie he takes quincy jones's irons side score and makes that relevant santa's movie he has taken all of these disparate snatches of movie score history and made them profoundly a part of his own on and that is a really neat trick. Now i think it's plausible to be seventy years old and to have a previous relationship with some of that music and the way that i don't and to not be as impressed by that which i i respect but for me personally i love what he did with kill bill you know i'm not dumb enough to think that pulp fiction and everything that he did with dick dale and al green gene and dusty springfield and chuck berry all the artists that he platforms in the way by choosing songs that are just left center for them and making them a thing was not a radical shift in the way that movie soundtracks happened it obviously was and i still like it just one of those things where sometimes you play out your favorite album and you can't listen to it anymore <hes> and so i'm going kill bill and once upon a time in hollywood is is right behind. It and that's probably recency bias but i'm having a lot of fun listening to that soundtrack a lot. I've been listening to quite a lot to humidity lovely playlist of it. Thank you for that. Shall we do a couple all of all time questions. I guess so you don't seem too thrilled about that because then a year on record on the record and one of the best things about seeing movies movies nonstop as your ideas get to change all the time so i wanna say that no matter what i say here and i'm appreciative of the questions and i'm not asking for less questions like this but no matter what i say it is it is mutable bowl. It has to be it has to it has to change only make you do a couple of them. Okay okay kyle dink. John asks which performance in history would warrant sean fantasy to whisper. That was the best acting thing i've ever seen in an actress here. Can we cut and julia butter saying that this i'll do that. I'll look for that scene. I would love that is the best acting i've ever seen in my whole life i do. I wrote down a handful. I don't the i don't know how to answer this question that here's what i wrote down robert walker in strangers on a train. If you haven't seen alfred hitchcock strangers on a train it's one of the most twisted and fascinating anything movies of all time robert walker plays extended the heavy of the movie. It is pure malice. It is evil it this. Is this a movie that was released thirty forty years years before hannibal lecter appeared onscreen. This is a just a dynamite scary weird kind of character and were rob walker's doing his amazing. I also wrote down to coal kidman in to die for which is a movie that did not win. A performance did not win an oscar but i think as we go along i can see more and more actors tres using this kind of meta diluted figure as a text for the characters that they portray because nicole kidman characters desire desire for fame and ability to shut off everything around her in an effort to keep going forward towards fame is a very resonant text for life in two thousand nineteen and if you look at what she's doing in the way that she is channeling all of her experiences as a famous actress and putting it into this very very interesting and clever gus van sant film <hes>. I'm impressed by it every time you know i wrote down pacino and doug afternoon. Sometimes you don't really have over think it you can just be like the greatest actor is the greatest actor actor and this is them at the peak of their powers now on the one hand you've got the godfather which is all recessed all sort of malevolent <hes> savviness and then you've got doug afternoon which is is desperate and emotional and furious and confused and unable to control everything but desperately trying to keep it altogether so patino no doubt. I think we're forgetting <hes> philip. Seymour hoffman was the best actor of this century. <hes> i put the master down here. <hes> i think you could pick any number of philip. Seymour hoffman performances probably really the most pro. He's probably the most flexible actor bought you know give or take them at merrill l. street <hes> who can do comedy drama docudrama thriller. I this is a guy who is the best mission impossible villain always say that you know he's a person and who was the funniest part of ben stiller comedy. He's a person who is an extraordinary shit. He'll in <hes> talented mister ripley he he is the purest evocation of vulnerability in boogie nights just like really my favorite actor has always been my favorite actor since i came upon them in <hes> senator woman and <hes> his performance in the masters like genuinely moving for me so that one i wrote down faye dunaway in network network like top five movie for me dinah christianson much much like <hes> nicole kidman's character die for is of repression figure in the way that media came along and i think her ability to kind of isolate and hilariously show us what's wrong with people that lives on for me burt lancaster in sweet smell of success similar. Are you sensing a theme of of cynical nickel dark figures that i respond to something underneath my skinny anthony hopkins coming up now no anthony maybe in westworld when you think about that no no no not that one didn't win all of the awards in a row so that's true and the last one i wrote down his naomi watts in mulholland drive. Now there's thousands of other performances. I like different films <hes>. I guess it's notable that all of these homes are english language <hes> but naomi watts in mullen drives basically playing three parts and i think in some cases playing multiple multiple parts in the same movie leads to weird tom hardy fuck ary <hes> in the case of mulholland drive. I think what's doing amazing and i just saw naomi watts. Give an amazing performance. It's in a new movie called loose which i was so excited to see an actually lived up to my expectations of it's directed by julius overnights in theaters right now. How about a family a young oh boy who has been <hes> adopted from eritrea war-torn <unk> trae by two liberal white parents played by watson tim roth and how the boy <music> <hes> who is a i think a junior high school interacts with the expectations of his life and what people expect of him given his his life situation and where he comes from and who he is becoming and it is just a provocative fascinating movie anatomy watts has less key significant role in it as a mother who is is trying to do the best thing for her son but maybe he doesn't realize that she is laying expectation that is unreasonable upon him so i would highly recommend loose <hes> bobby's check check out to i will nominate a couple that are a little more <hes> what you might call basic chore you <hes> daniel day lewis and there will be blood just like singed my eyebrows off. I just don't know how anyone does that. I mean that's too much of a sean answer. Maybe whatever in that down here. It's a little like saying babe. Ruth was good. You know we know change the game. He changed the game that i remember seeing dennis hopper and blue velvet and being like oh people are allowed to be like that onscreen he would fit in with this group of evil monsters exactly yeah him yelling about beer types and heineken p._r. is formative for me and liking movies formative for me and liking p._b._r. Very hipster drink very hip serve view all right. Let's move on one more of all time question and then we'll move on from that <hes> carol amalia alban asks <hes> what is the most important movie made after nineteen eighteen sixty who well. I wrote down one movie for every decade. Here's here's the movies i wrote down because i don't think you can say there's one single movie that is most important and if you had to say that you would say star wars not because it is the best movie that has been made since nineteen sixty but it because it is the movie that changed movies pointed jaws but i think star wars is the most a significant because especially the i._p. Stranglehold we find ourselves in this deluge of comic books action franchises houses kids films live action remakes of previously existing material everything that has been dominating this very complicated industry that we're we're trying to track on this show is comes up from star wars and it doesn't mean that star wars is the first time there were serialisation in the story doesn't mean it's the first time it was a big time action epic or science fiction epic. It just became phenomena logical in a way that is accepted as a fact of our culture now that did not exist beforehand but i think before that the most significant is bonnie and clyde which just changed what a movie hit could be in terms of violence in terms of its portrayal of sexuality in this country three <hes> in terms of how it it platform new movie stars and new filmmakers the way that it integrated the influence of the new wave cinema and put an on american screens and used it to tell a western story which is sort of our domain in a really significant way so i would go for the sixties stars for the seventies indies your your precious baby topgun for the eighties. I love it so much which sweating in white t-shirts just what more can i need. I would say the supercharged masculinity and the rockstar affiliation of movies is what that movie represents you know the sort of kenny loggins soundtrack nicknames and cruise at his absolute absolute most crews for the nineties. I wrote down jurassic park. I think you could also put terminator two judgment day here. <hes> those are movies that took huge technological echnological advances into a movie theaters basically changed our expectations of what we could get and how big we could think about what movie could be <hes>. I still think to this moment. Drastic jurassic park holds up astonishingly well and t- to as well a little bit but drag park is still absolutely mind blowing experience to me and and then you know i think for this this century i won't really split the difference between the os in the tens but for the century it's the dark night which <hes> put a great deal of respectability onto the thing that we were previously anxious about and let it really. I mean a change the oscars the way it was received it. It changed the expectation tation of the box office full stop and i really think it changed movies for better and worse. If you've heard the episode of the rewatch ables that khorasan i did about that movie you know that there's something about it that i don't think worker makes sense or or even reasonable and i had my doubts about nolan's films in the past but there's no doubt that it is one of the most significant phenomenons of the last fifty years and movies yeah i was twelve in that movie came out and i was like there's never going to be a better movie ever made us yeah so <hes> i i think a lot of people felt that way and still do yeah. I think so too as little really good question because there's so much there's a lot of layers the word important rather than best absolutely i'm glad it was important and not best because best is highly highly subjective even beyond the obvious stakes of a mailbag podcast. You know best in terms of what you're grading on film. There's so many factors like every three weeks. We're doing the show. We're filmmakers are trying to figure out what worked and what didn't and why was this good and what would the <hes> you. You realize that there are dozens hundreds of people making movies. Please go and so because of that figuring out what is the best is a reason why the best picture is always given to somebody who fucking sucks all right this next question <hes> may it comes from zach pack club hope. I'm saying that right but it might be my favorite question. A few people ask this <hes> so you can draft a director two leading actors and supporting actor who haven't worked together on a film who you got i love this question is a great question ray job. I use act dana coup jesse plemmons and florence pugh directed by barry jenkins who says no. What kind of movie is it a couple of others who will ask if the if you could draft a director to do is that they haven't done yet so what's maybe something that barry jenkins hasn't done yet with this. Cast remake of eyes wide shut okay. No i think a movie that starts is out like a romance and turns into a thriller is what i would like to see daniel clue jesse clemens in florence fewer all actors and we know this now based on that last handful of roles that they've had who don't have to say allot to communicate a lot and barry jenkins is the kind of filmmaker who likes to show us the faces of of his performers very true and those are people that can communicate a world world without saying much and the older i get and the less interested i get in the people who can write like dazzling dialogue <hes> the more interested. I am in a certain kind of a cinema so and i just love watching those three onscreen. I'm i'm so so stoked about what foreigners pugh is gonna do now in the aftermath mid somare. She's she's clearly got. She has that movie star thing that we're always trying to put our finger on where you just can't take your eyes off of what she's doing and you can't stop thinking about what she's thinking about. Which i love <hes> the barry jenkins take on the close up of florence pew in light of our astor's affinity for close ups would be a very fun to watch play out most definitely <hes> shall we do a couple more about the industry and then wrap up yellowstone. G._c.'s sys admin quite a twitter asks. What is the future of sundance. Very open ended question question <hes>. It's still a hugely important place in the in the world of movies what the expectations are coming out of sundance. Probably what's going to change the most because it's obviously really deeply useful an interesting place to discover new voices. I think the sundance labs do incredible work in helping to develop people into giving them exposure to professionals nationals in the in the space into a no place has done more to kind of diversify who makes movies over the last thirty plus years forty years. I guess probably since the mid eighties is really sundance has been thriving so they've got this incredible track record of providing an opportunity for new voices which i have always admired the the movies that have come out of sundance that have been big ticket items of late have not always succeeded and there has been some doubt cast on certain kinds of films because because of that you know late night experienced a little bit of a not a backlash per se but just a a a kind of anxieties cycle that resulted in not as much performance as a movie like that maybe could have done. We're only a couple of years removed from a movie like the big sick kind of overperforming its expectations and everybody wants that for independent cinema but it's not as easy to replicate as it was in nineteen ninety seven so i think that there will be some anxiety in the future. We'll have <hes> paul down. Delays on the show talking about his movie burning runs a marathon on and talking about you know what it's like to participate in the experience of being a bidding war and to show your film for the first time at that place. It's a place that has a psychological hold on independent filmmakers the world over and i think that there are still both streaming services in studios that are interested in what happens there but it's changed a lot and if you fail coming out of sundance sundance. I don't know if that means you're in trouble or if you can reboot in a meaningful way <hes> julius only mentioned directed loose is kind of interesting subject subject there so jewish ona's i kind of professional film was a little movie called the cloverfield paradox which was previously a <hes> paramount film. There was sold to netflix. It was debuted. I believe after the twenty eighteen super bowl on net flicks and was just absolutely savage. <hes> just it was the reviews were terrible and the movie is not very good and it's a it was a part of the cloverfield universe and produced by bad robot and the movie didn't didn't work for whatever reason <hes> ona is a super talented guy who has been kind of making his way slowly through the independent ranks of of <hes> the film world. I think he went to n._y._u. I'm not sure go violence violence. I don't care about why you sorry either but but ona i think basically got a a chance to reset his career by taking loose to sundance and he took it to sundance people liked it. It was purchased by neon and now it is on theaters and it is doing decent business and i and i think that that's a person who is actually used sundance to an interesting effect and it still has that potential to it. It's not just the place where we will have never done it before. It's a place for people who who are either returning alumni to the system or who need a reset so it's still vital. It's it's still a vital part of movie making in twenty twenty. Okay <hes> here are two questions kind of go hand in hand so tyler asks and then we'll wrap up there so tyler asks all the time of the pod. You guys talk about how are in the time of m. c. You and how they dominate the movie going experience like westerns in the forties and fifties so if you had to make an educated guess and predict what's coming next in terms of genre. What would it be. It's like a hard question. You could possibly ask about them well. I think that the lion king is is a is a really important movie not the nineteen ninety-four version of lion king the twenty nineteen version of lying because what that movie does even more than avatar. Is that shows us that that we don't need location. We don't need humans. We don't need anything other than technicians and voice actors to make movies happen and if you look at the general american economy there has over the course of the last thirty years a lot of anxiety about the idea of automation and and the concept of not needing human workforce to execute product and there is in a kind of philip k dick way a bit of anxiety about whether this could happen to move is now obviously some of the most successful movies in the world right now animated. The lion king is different form of animation. It is a it it is a little bit perilous and it's the first time that the phrase the uncanny valley has made sense to me not just because it's a good pun but because it is there is something eerie about watching the lion king to me and part of that is because it's a story we already know and so it feels iterative and feels like a waste of time and part of it is because it will replace a certain kind of movie that i love and there's no doubt about it in my mind that it will replace that there is a significant difference to watching a movie like the last jedi and watching a movie like the lion king even though they both feel like they're part of this you know frustrating disney vacation of the box office and you know we're super worried about <hes> where things are going and whether movies will be in theaters theaters and we would all be i._p. The lion king is not exactly a genre that a comic book movie is a genera- it is just a style of filmmaking and i think that that style is going to become more pervasive especially as the technology gets cheaper and frankly technology like this always gets cheaper over time and so as it gets cheaper and there are more movies that are like this that that look real and seem real even though they are entirely unreal. I think that's the direction we're headed and once we get exhausted of marvel and we i will because all societies get exhausted all of the most popular things and they move on to the next iteration. I think we're going to have a kind of movie going world in which the uncanny valley is increasingly precinct candy. Yeah i think they'll be probably a lot less of a backlash to that the film making style of the lion king when it's not just the same story told over again <hes> i don't know if people objected to the way that there were no people involved in it quite as much as they objected to the fact that it was just the same story and the nineties version was probably better. I think it was a combination the nation. I think that there was a bit of an awkward like a weird feeling in experiencing the film but there was also <hes> exactly what you're saying which is like an exasperation with watching the same thing again. I think a lot of people experience that weird feeling as a positive feeling though like you know if you if you do the thing where we ask ringer moms how they felt about it. My mom came out of and she was like it's kind of amazing how that looked yeah. I mean it's it's not that it's not an achievement and i tried to. I think a man and i both tried to kind of underlying that when we talked about the movie when it was first released. It's not a judgment to me of the worked. The people have done specifically. It's a judgment about where the technology of the medium is going and it's just less rooted like you watch it in you. Watch it and then and you think about a movie like metsamor which we've talked. A lot about on this episode is just like there's so much more of a sense of place with midsummer and a sense of feeling and the certain inequality that just like seeing a real field and real people in that field close up gives you that i just don't think that any of the lion king footage really ignited from me yeah in honestly my favorite sensation at the movies reviews and maybe this is just on me now but it's to feel unsafe. It's to feel like i'm in a place where i don't know what's going to happen next and movie the lion king while it is a technological breakthrough is very safe is very safe storytelling. It's very safe product rollout. I think there's more there's more flexibility in superhero movies candidly to be unsafe. <hes> the the movies that we're going to get in the future from morville sound kind of unsafe <hes>. I think that that there's expectation that they'll perform well but they're going to be a little different than what we got before the lion king. There's just nothing different. It's it's the same story. It's the story that we've seen a million times and so i'm i'm bored of that yup me as well okay so we have a ton of great questions here so that we haven't gotten to but we're running out of time here so final one <hes> and if the last question was kind of a look for this is a little bit lookback <hes> so <unk> ajar who asks how would you define this decade of films <hes> what kind of narrative films from this decade talking about. What movies do you think will be considered appeared as classics. This is a really good question. I am probably not qualified to answer the question. How would i define this decade gate of films desperate and aspirational i think but i don't think that's so significantly different from the entire history of film. I think certainly it feels like box. Office is scared but i think films are more diverse than they've ever been. I think there are some people that are trying things that you couldn't try before i think a lot of our anxieties about where things are going are rooted in the loss of what we knew as kids so whenever we say why don't they make like sexy thrillers or studio comedies or rom coms or all these things that we're always whingeing about on this show and elsewhere. It's because that's what we had when we were kids and we don't have it anymore but we do have is <hes> the last black man in san francisco you you know we didn't have a movie like that twenty five years ago or if we did it was harder to see than it is now and i think that there's been a lot of opportunity but everything has become miniaturized so the most money that a movie like the last black men in san francisco ca make in the in in the entire market fifteen million dollars and so fewer people will see it but you can z. it. You can go to a movie theater if you live in a major city if you're fortunate c._n._n. Major city or you can wait until it comes to the o._d. Three months later and you can rent it for four ninety nine and you can see it so those are getting made. It's not they're not getting made. It's just that everything is shrinking and there's a huge stratification and of course there are ten disney movies it will be at the top of the box office and they will we'll be big and they'll continue to be big until disney has probably a leadership change and they lose sight of how best to execute against all that and if kevin foggy isn't there by isn't there or people who hold the quan who have the magic answer things are move on studios rise and fall and they move in proper directions and then they don't and then the other thing to consider is i. I think that from a platform and distribution point of view this is last gasp stuff because we're on the verge of disney plus on the verge of h._b._o. Macs were on the verge of prime video leaning in a specific direction. We're on the verge of net flicks continuing to evolve and as all of those companies do all those things they start putting all their resources towards those machines as they try to rebuild the cable television business movies will be the primary <hes> primary victim of that because a lot of movies are gonna go straight to those services and the way that those movies are served and we've seen that in from various streaming services are not always going to be the same level of quality as they are when they're going join at the actual distribution and so i think we're probably going to look back on this time and whether you know you're pointing to movies like the dark knight or movies like moonlight eight both of whom i think are hugely significant in the story of the century of movies. We're kind of at the end of something with movies like that. You know we're not gonna. There's there's not gonna be a movie that is you know actually bigger than avatar. There's not gonna be a movie. That's actually bigger than gone with the wind. When you adjust for inflation the theatrical movie business is shrinking as not coming back in the same way and so what we have is a is a dany ma. You know it's a it's a last-gasp and a lot of ways as which is obviously tremendously sad for somebody like me but also means. We're gonna get stuff that we didn't think we'd be up before. I was thinking of <hes> sorry to bother you. <hes> <hes> boots riley's movie that came out last year a lot and love the movie <hes> the too bizarre energy to that film yeah i i would say it's not my favorite movie in the world but i loved it. It was just completely unhinged. I mentioned unsafe before and there's something so unsafe about all the ideas these gotten that movie in about the way that he's telling the story visually in the actress he's using and i do think that we're going to get more stuff like sorta bother you so it's not like we're in the throes of a creative death per se. It's just how we get in and how far it goes is going to change. I think that's a as good a place to end as any <hes>. I hope so bobby <hes>. What else are we going to be doing this week. I think i'm going to have chris ryan on later this week to talk about bruce springsteen and that's because we're gonna have grinner chata on the show. She is the director of blinded by the white which is the heavily bruce. Springsteen indebted new new film coming out at the end of this week and then after that amanda returns. We'll price are yelling at each other again. How does that sound sounds about right. Thank you for not yelling me on this episode bobby. I appreciate <music>.

oscars hollywood dr doolittle bobby director bobby wagner dr doolittle lucas hedges jessie buckley khloe zhao ingmar bergman steven soderbergh joanna hogg Jim jarmusch netflix john wick adam neiman chris ryan James gandolfini writer terry gilliam
Breaking Down Im Thinking of Ending Things, With Charlie Kaufman

The Big Picture

1:38:14 hr | 11 months ago

Breaking Down Im Thinking of Ending Things, With Charlie Kaufman

"Today's episode of the big picture is brought to you by the Afi Conservatory as the number one film school in America the conservatories were artists become master filmmakers join the ranks of such groundbreaking alumni as David Lynch Patty Jenkins Carl Franklin Rachel Morrison, and so many more apply now at F. I dot. Edu that's AF DOT Edu. Episode has also brought to you by Heineken. Heineken. Original Logger has made with pure malt and their famous a yeast which makes Heineken and all season all the time kind of beer. Hopefully, it's starting to cool down here in Los Angeles. Nevertheless, it's always a great time to drink a cool Crisp Heineken, pick up a pack or have it delivered today and drink responsibly. I'm Sean Fantasy Adam. And this is the big picture. A conversation show about I'm thinking of ending things that of course is the name of the new movie from Charlie Kaufman and here to talk about that movie and the career of Kaufman we've got. A major friend of the ringer and the first time you joined us for a conversation like this. It's Amy Nicholson Hi amy hi. Hello. Great to be here I. Guess I'm going to be should be here for the heaviest dirtiest most beloved filmmaker door. Yes. That is exactly why I wanted you to be here because you you as I understand that you are the number one Kaufman Fan I'm a huge fan I don't know from end and I have ever even had a conversation about coughing and what he does obviously best known as a screenwriter though he's a director in his own, right? Me Maybe you can just explain to us why you respond so much to Kaufman's or yeah I mean Kaufman is my religion. You're wh what I love about him so much like he does two things in both of his films, the one is that he just narrows in I think on all of the most horrible tiny parts of a human's personality. The. Things that feel so specific to you and yet are really universal. Everybody has these insecurities in moments of MIS snob am I settling? He figures out every little bit of what makes us weak and stay up at night and then to bring those to life, he doesn't do it in this you know. Realistic Credible way of like, oh, I'm going to be writing on a bus and staring out the window and you know it's GonNa be very naturalistic in indie movie. He figures out how to tell these stories in a way that breaks movie format that's always pushing the boundaries of what a screenplay and what a film can do and so he's at once incredibly honest and then incredibly fantastical and it's that that makes ambition just absolutely breaks my heart I. Adore Him. Yeah I'm thinking of ending things is an interesting evolution or signal point for him Later in this episode, I should say I had a conversation with Charlie and Ian Read Who's the author of the novel that I'm thinking of anything. This is sort of based on which will get into a little bit when we talk about the movie but Amanda, what about you I, I had some suspicions about your Charlie Kaufman. Interest is given the conversations we've had over the years. Yes. That is true. I'M GONNA be revealing a lot about myself and my relationship to art, and you know also my existence in this show as we all will because you can't talk about Charlie off movie without getting into ideas of self end and philosophy, and how we relate to each other and to movies. Sean we have talked about Charlie Kaufman before I have to if. We're GONNA put Chris Ryan on the spot that I'm going to put you on the spot because adaptation is was one of my top five movies about making movies and I love application and I think I saw adaptation at the right point in my movie watching life and also probably just like my cerebral life which was in college, which was when I was learning about things like. Post. Modernism and deconstructing the text and kind of. Pushing formats and everything that amy was talking about in one, thousand, nine and being, Whoa you can do that and I guess also taken the requisite philosophy classes that every young undergraduate should take, and so I think of Charlie Kaufman as. The person who really taught me how much you can push not just a movie though obviously that's what he makes a piece of writing and the definition of being an artist and the the depth, the relationship between an artist and attacks and I think that he. Explores those issues brilliantly and he and pretty much anyone who tries to imitate what he does like fails miserably and I think he's an and that to me is the mark of a great artist in a way that so many people are like, Oh, you can do that I can do that too and then fall flat on their face. That if you're like influences almost negative in a way because it's created these rip offs that are insufferable than a lot of ways that really like holds up the art even more and that to me is a very Charlie Kaufman quality the Ark of his career is fascinating in that respect too because he starts off in his early thirties as a writer on television after not working in Hollywood for basically the first part. Of his adult life until he gets kind of a slow start into the space, I guess the TV project he's best known for working on is probably get a life the Chris, Elliott Fox. Sitcom. And he wrote a handful of episodes there and work on the writing staff, and then he also spent some time working on the Dana Carvey show the famously deranged sketch show that had a very short life on ABC I. Think. And then I think he really comes to the public consciousness with being John Malkovich, which remains one of my favorite movies of the last fifty years and I, I think in many ways introduced kind of thinking before. I was thinking about dairy semi editions and deconstructing text like Amanda is talking about and even it's well before I had any sense of postmodern cinema. It's if you see that movie at a young age, it can be very influential on someone like me. Obviously it's a collaboration, Spike Jones. You made a couple of collaborations with spike. Jones he made you know collaboration with Michelle Gandara Tunnel, sunshine very well known. It's an interesting thing because one of the criticisms that I have heard of his last couple of films which I generally don't agree with. But I'm of curious about your point of view on this amy is that Kaufman has been interpreted by others and not himself and Malkovich and Adaptation Eternal Sunshine I think are widely considered his masterpieces New York his doctoral debut anomalies and I'm thinking of ending things. There's a lot of admiration for and people certainly understand what he's going after now but that he isn't quite doing the thing that you know other artists are able to provide for us when they interpreted his work, what do you think about that general thought within which Kaufman do you prefer? Yeah I can say it up at the top of this I'm biased because synoptic in York is not just my favorite Kaufman film. It is one of my top two favorite films of all time period. What's the? pennies from heaven. It's an a musical from the early eighties with Steve Martin. They're very similar if you likes synthetic, you actually might like pennies from heaven. They're basically this a movie one just has musical numbers. But yet now I think they he does work well in collaboration with something like anomaly. So where he's working with puppet designers who help him figure out how to realize his world But I think for Kaufman if you want the full experience, sometimes you have to just let him go down his crazy rabbit holes. I think there are some partnerships where who he is works really well, like eternal sunshine rising in eternal sunshine you feel this is happening in the soul of the movie. That Kaufman is kind of cynical and kind of heartbroken about the ability to even be in love in the first place whereas Gandara is just the biggest romantic on the planet. Uganda is a perpetual fifteen year old who's in love for the first time and those dueling impulses I make that film really work either. But that won't work for everything in Kaufman wants to do. You can't put a Gandara spin on something likes inequity. I think you have to just let the mango where he needs to go. Amanda. What about you? What do you? which which do you prefer this? Solo. Kaufman the autour or the the man behind the curtain well, I think there's a difference between personal preference and also you know what is most representative. It will surprise no-one to learn that I like the Pop Spike Jones interpretations the best because that's just who I am. I'm just trying to go to the movies and have some fun along with my like with my philosophy and my questions of my own worth the worth of other people and relationships and Mireille and our other people. Real and is it all just like one big performance which by the way it is and that's fine. Maybe I'm also just like more at peace with that than Charlie Kaufman is yeah. Everyone's faking it all the time I'm not too worried about it but I I think that that is again just kind of the best the vessel that Mo- speaks to like my particular needs and interests and you know as amy was saying he is taking something that is so idiosyncratic unspecific and making it available to a very broad group of people you know even within that. The way you translate those emotions and that very personal experience you know we'll vary and it will people respond differently. I'm also a little bias because. I saw some New York I believe it was on Thanksgiving and it was on a spy with my entire family was a spectacular. Yes amy I saw that look on your face. Thank you. Correct. It was a spectacular run of my father picking just like the most inappropriate like really dour Thanksgiving and Christmas night movies to see with like me and my dad and my aunt and uncle I believe also another Philip Seymour Hoffman Foam savages was in that run as well, which was also not a great holiday experience. So again, it's a little bit about where you are and what you're trying to receive from these films. It occurs to me as I think about the totality of his work and and I'm thinking of ending things as well is. I'm thinking of ending things is really the first of his films that is not about an artist or performer. Every other movie that he's he's written is about. Well and and that's maybe a an interesting way to kind of talk about the point of view of the movie as well. But you know being John Malkovich of courses about puppeteer I think that there is a kind of Performa tive life aspects to Patricia character and human nature in the way that she is trying to kind of convert herself publicly adaptation obviously about a screenwriter eternal sunshine. Joel is kind of an artist and sixty New York obviously a playwright play by Philip Seymour Hoffman Anomaly Saga. There is a kind of public performance aspect to that lead character who is you know comes to is it Cincinnati I think to give a to give CADDY. That's right. and I'm thinking of anything says about. Maybe maybe not a much more solitary figure someone who doesn't really have an audience even though there is there are audiences in this movie and it's interesting I. Think. I have seen some negative reaction in the second wave of reaction to I'm thinking of ending things and the word that I've seen used the most often self-indulgent which I think is extremely stupid as a criticism for most art but especially, what Charlie Kaufman is after obviously because the interrogation of the self is the whole that's the whole Shebang that's that's everything he's doing. So I think to hold that specifically against it. Certainly misses the point i. do think that you could make the case that there are times in which he is overly aggressive in in in focusing on. SORT. Of the the frailty of human life you know he's not he's not about over the overcoming spirit. That's not something that he believes in and I think you know you're right amy that he he's cynical and then I do think that sometimes he can be bullied by artists who were not as cynical but the idea of adapting something is kind of what was most fascinating to me about this. I've read this novel I like this novel. I think the novel is significantly different from the film even if it's kind of structurally not that different have either of you guys read this book. I haven't I mean this is where I should confess my approach to, Kaufman, which is either I call my religion but I, really do treat him like church in that when I'm about to see a new Kaufman film, I don't know anything about it like I didn't know anomaly aside puppets until I, it started like I'm somehow able to go into a tunnel, right? Now literally nothing because I just want his his interpretation would be the first thing I. See I see. Yeah. So yeah, I haven't heard about and curious about it. So I it I specifically asked you not to read it yes, and I followed Garin struck transfer once thank you the reason I did that is because I really wanted to get a sense of The interpretation of someone who doesn't know the tax so I'm I'm grateful that both of you don't know the text I'll say that having seen the movie even though there is a difference. I don't know I think it would be hard to make hide nor hair of a lot of the film without having read the book, and so I do understand when people watch this and say I hated or I was confounded by it and I think the idea that the the the fact that the movie is on Netflix men's that. So many people are going to see this movie or at least going to start it an uncommonly large number of people will watch a very peculiar Charlie Kaufman film and with the expectation that hey, maybe. You know the evil kid from breaking bad and you know the gal from Chernobyl. Are Going to have a romance at some point and that's obviously not what this is about. Amy Can you can you try to explain to me what you think this is about is there a way to do a plot summary from thinking of ending things? By I can try, I can try So on the surface, this is about a girl going on a trip with her boyfriend to visit his parents that together very long. She says six or seven weeks at I, say it's about a girl going because you from the beginning of the film you're in her head in her thoughts you think you know. And they go to his house his parents are played by twenty three and David Thewlis. and. Slowly thinking of the whole Netflix of the thing of people putting a movie on for five or ten minutes and giving it a shot, which is what Netflix's does. You the first five or ten minutes. I feel like our almost ordinary saving and maybe a little boring and then once they're in the house, you realize all rules are. Bending in shape you know there's a dog that's always shaking his head and an emotion time to starts to skip forward and skip back with his parents. Nothing that you think you know about the film winds up being tangible you know not even like the characters costumes will stay in place and it just starts becoming this creeping thing when you're trying to figure out the story and is the story. Oh, now see now now you got me now I'm like not even talking about the plot anymore I stop. Basically the trip doesn't go well and she just wants to go home. A man I know that you knew that this was not going to be an ordinary kind of narrative film. But at what point did you start to think did did you get confused at any point I guess is a is a useful way to think about it. was there any point where you felt like you were purposefully being unnerved or you just lost track of where things are going? Yes. One hundred percent though I just want to say and I must say this with no spoilers. I watched this movie after seeing tenant and I just have to say I was in a really interesting head space and I maybe picked up on some things a bit faster than I would have because I was just like Oh. What if it's like this? Anyway? Yeah. I. Was Super Confused and I think watching it at home on net flicks is in one way as the ideal space to watch this movie because you can go back and to the extent that it's a puzzle and his amy's that things were changing all the time and there's like you know I definitely had the moments of being wait her coat is a different color or. Like I'm at one point I'm like wait was Tony Klett just a lot older or did I make that up because this is a little bit the downside of watching you know my attention span and I was trying so hard I just WanNa say I knew that we'd be doing this podcast and I tried so hard. Your mind wanders a little bit at home. So I'm like. I looked away for a second and then I'm just like wait did I make this up or are they different or are they old and? To some extent I think that that is like like the intent and the joy of or the frustration of watching the movie and. I'll be honest I was frustrated a lot of time watching this movie which I think is the point because you don't know what's going on and it also cultivates a sense of of horror and dread. Just. The premise is amy described it, which is going to meet your boyfriend's parents after six weeks. I mean that is a horror movie in any context, but then like. There is even within the first ten minutes of them in the car like things are not quite right. The word maggots is said in a very upsetting way within twenty minutes and I was like Oh. No. If this is turning full maggots, I'm going to be really mad And I think the movie is trying to provoke you and make you feel uncomfortable and be like what the Hell is going on. That is kind of the point and it's very effective in in that way. Yeah and there's something specifically different from how the film plays out. Then from the book, the book is a very short book about two hundred and fifty pages and it's incredibly repulsive and it's written sort of like a mystery page Turner? Where you're very much in the mind of this female character who goes unnamed in the book. And she's having this inner monologue about how she's thinking of ending things with her boyfriend Jake, and that sort of leads her down the path of recounting some of the experiences that they've had together and. Interrogating the past and subtly in between those things happening, you get a sense that there's been a suicide. There's almost like an interstitial at the beginning of every chapter that indicates that someone has committed suicide. It's unclear who and then also that there someone keeps calling this this narrator figure this lead character on the phone, and so we do get the phone call from an old man in the movie but. This is a spoiler. So if you haven't seen this movie I, don't think you should listen to this podcast at all and I'm just going to say that right now and if you have seen the movie keep listening. The the book ends with the revelation that in fact, this woman that we've been spending all this time with is actually just an old man who has a janitor at high school and the way that the author in read kind of conveys that information I think. In one sense. Kind of fascinating and very delicate. Of unsatisfying, because it feels like you've arrived at the end of the conclusion of this mystery about what the Hell's going on like this very curious trip to this farmhouse, and then this very curious trip to dairy queen, and then this sort of disorientation that is happening at all times and you realize Oh this is actually the story of someone who is you know maybe schizophrenic or or struggling with this sort of mental mental health issue and that they're at their end of a long life and they're very lonely than reflecting on what is or what could have been or all these different ideas. And it's like a big Aha and then you put the book down and you're like. Isn't an Aha. Was and do I feel good about where this book took me and I've had a lot of debates with people that I've asked to read this book about over over the last couple of years. The movie doesn't Ingredient, which is the movie shows the old man in the first twenty, five thirty minutes of the movie and I thought that that was such a fascinating choice and I haven't heard people talk about it too much. So I was curious when you guys when you're watching the film when you saw that character did you immediately say Oh, I see this is this is his manifestation. This is something that he is imagining you Amanda Shaking her head Yes amy did you I didn't think even in the first minute either shoot lens downstairs and you see getting ready to go to work it you these kinda parallel tracks happening right at the first time. I mean I've seen the movie twice it definitely opens up a lot more on the second watch your because on the I watch I think because of the title I was going in really thinking it was a movie about suicide. You know that all the time we think she's talking about the relationship, but she's really thinking talking about ending her own life that was the movie I thought was going to happen from just the first setup of it. which is not the case I think But yeah to what Amanda was saying in a way I feel like this is the worst and yet ultimate Netflix's movie like you figured out how to hack the Netflix's code and that this is a movie you are not able to during like you cannot be looking at your phone at all. He figured out how to make an a completely riveting relationship issues sort of drama where there's not even a second you can tune out which is what I've always really liked about him. As a filmmaker is that in the beginning minutes of cynic too key the way you just start to know some fast forwarding time in like the calendar and the clock and the thing he has so much faith in the audience in. So to have that faith in the audience that he knows that you're watching and you trust that you're going to catch up and now enough looks you can rewind if you want to which. I definitely did on the second, watch. It's it's it's an interesting new medium. Almost I feel like he's creating because there's not a lot of films I think are almost. Accidentally on purpose designed for winding this. Yet so I wanted to ask you both about this because because the thing that the movie does and can do that the book can do is what some, what some of what you were alluding to earlier both of you guys the idea that Jesse, Buckley's sweater seems to change at some point or hairstyle seems to change at some point. The way that even just the way that the characters framed in a shot looks like it's at one angle and we think that this is going to be the perspective we're seeing them from, and then it shifts again or the dog that is constantly wagging that unnerves us in a way. The book doesn't have as much of a handle on surrealism in that way and the movie. Is. The is like the ultimately re watchable movie in so many ways and I started thinking of this we talked about it when the ballot or roster scribes came out and I was like the greatest thing about this is there's a new Coen brothers movie out on Netflix's on I can watch it as many times in a row as I want and it's also an anthology. So if I only WANNA watch one of the chapters, I can. Do that and this movie is the exact same way where there are if you care to interrogate it, examine it, you can kind of rewatch or re explore different phases of it or different readings there so much source material inside of the movie. There's so many things that he is trying to comment on or show us to use to either explode the premise of the movie or dig deeper into the character that Jessie Buckley is playing Amanda did you like the idea of kind of like being overloaded in the movie experience? Not In a moment this like I will be honest I found it at times I was like what is going on and or like why are you reciting Pauline Kale to me which is definitely a thing that happens and have like you know it is both A. Great Netflix's movie in this puzzle quality and also their extended scenes where it's just to actress by like very much sitting in a car like talking at each other and that's intentional and I think like Dave, rehashed the baby. It's cold outside argument from like two thousand and twelve. For reason, you know but I also having been on the Internet in two thousand and I don't WanNa hear this again. Okay. I know that it's problematic. So I found I was one of those things where in the moment I was a little provoked which to me is always the sign of excellent filmmaking because if you WANNA get reaction even if it's not always like the reaction I know that all be fun in life even if I wish it were so but then after the fact, once I kind of more fully understood how they came together I think the the climax, one of the climaxes of the movies anyway does pull it together for for me I was like, oh And I understood at least a lot of the references and. Kind of what this movie has to say about our relationship to art, which is you know always Charlie, Kaufman theme and something I'm interested in that clicked for me a lot more and I was like Oh interesting and I think I've probably thought about it since finishing watching it a lot more which is. which is rewarding and it's out my I think there's something slightly confusing but you're kind of along for the ride for Mo- in most of Kaufman's movies you know even though being John Malkovich and the seven and a half floor is absurd or eternal sunshine and the technology that they've developed to a race a certain part of your memory is absurd. You never feel like you don't know specifically what is going on in the story even if there's time shifting or it's confusing snacky New, York's probably the closest where there are times in the film when something happens and it feels like like he skipped a scene where he decided not to explain something to us. This is a little bit different in that I think being. Uncomfortable being provoked is, is the point in a lot of ways I D- do grew that amy I mean especially as a scholar of Kaufman. I think with Kaufman there's like right at the beginning it's almost like going to vegas like there's a level of buying that you have to do in a Kaufman film which involves trust like I give him my trust I trust that he's not going to just fuck with me for no reason. Ito. which is trust I don't give as easily to a Christopher Nolan I feel like I Can Out I have not seen tenant I don't know when I'm going to see a tenant but to compare you know Christopher Nolan film a lesser ones like interstellar to this I like a coffee like a film is like here's a crazy cuckoo clock and all these pieces are going and Blah Blah Blah and at the end when everything rings and things you have no idea what's happening He is like, Oh, the point was love is good you like really you know that was all of this was for that whereas with Kaufman. Amend is gonNA touching on this I think. In. Every scene he has fifty different questions. He's asking you what do you think about this? What about this over this? Have you ever felt this way and you can almost pick and choose your own movie from this you know what are the questions that really speak out to you? What are the questions that hurt you or the scenes I mean even that pauline kill seen when I saw that scene I had to text my boyfriend I'm so sorry thank you for dating me. Why? Because because. The very first day we met it was at a bar I was watching the Donald Trump Hillary Clinton send second debate with a group of my friends and he sat at our table in he had just come from seeing birth of a nation, the new one and he sat down next to me and we didn't really know each other. He was like I just saw this movie it was so great and I hate that movie it. So instead of speaking to my the guy who would become my boyfriend I, pulled up my review, my negative review birth of a nation and handed it to him on my phone. I went back to the television to watch. I support. Felt like that scene was just Kaufman looking through the camera at me and saying, Hey, amy I, see you. I know how you hide behind your written thoughts that you don't have to talk to people like Oh God. Amy, do you find yourself as a polit? Sometimes I wonder if she would have liked me and I feel like unless I knew that she would have liked me I can't but I really do adore her my very first day I got to say and I was an Internet the L. A. Weekly the editor at the time who I really Adore he he told me he was not a poet and he did not like the pulpit types and I was like well here. I am I'm in your building now he he made me feel on the defensive but yes, very much. I think she's one of the greatest writers there is I never agree with her she's so observant I, like we're losing out are not getting to see her review, a Kaufman film, all the things she would pick up on I watch I never noticed a fly crew. Went into belloc smell in raiders of the lost Ark until she pointed out if the movie ninety times, what would she? What would she make of this? I don't know she didn't really like week men did she Think. She might have struggled a little bit with Kaufman but that doesn't necessarily mean the reviews wouldn't have been fascinating I. Mean I was just reading about what Kaufman had to say about her and why he included. So essentially in the film at at one point Jessie, Buckley is exploring. What we think is Jake, her boyfriend's childhood bedroom, and in the bedroom she sees a copy of four keeps, which is a collection of some of pauline kills film criticism. And then on the return trip after they've completed this incredibly bizarre dinner and birthday cake. Jessie Buckley just starts reciting the review of a woman under the influence, the John Cavities film in what sounds like appalling kill imitation it sounds like she is affecting her style of speaking and I don't know why and maybe this is why I'm doing what I'm doing for a living. But I knew exactly what she was talking about right away I knew the movie right away I knew the review I could just picked up on it and. It's fascinating. The Kaufman really admires poincare. I think he admires her based on what he said claiming for very similar reasons, which is that you know her intelligence is so radiant in her writing. You don't really always agree with infecting might disagree with her actively all the time, but she is so provocative, and in the same way, the Kaufman is I think that there is something like. Sad trombone about depressed man writing about the struggles of the existential despair in life on the other hand when you are this talented when you're as talented as Kaufman is I think you can kind of transcend the said trombone of that reality and so even though this feels like him leaning into that much as possible it seems like what he's done throughout the movie. Is Dot the movie with different representations of those feelings and ultimately what the movie becomes and what I think. Lucy. Liu. Sia. Louisa. and to some extent, Jake, the things that they are saying and the things that they seem interested in feel like this agglomeration of influence you know film reviews, poems, movies, they've seen. Musicals they've seen ballet. There's all these these cultural touchstones dotted throughout the movie almost to the point of I thought of. Myself obviously because I to himself indulgent. But I have a bad habit of just kind of listing all the things that make a thing is the reason we do a lot of lists episodes on this show because I want to be able to say here, all the movies that are like that or he'll the movies that have that it's a it's a very bad habit for someone who is kind of insecure and is like wants to show that they know that they have the information in their aware and This. Felt Kinda Kaufman to me supersizing that idea saying like you think that the toxic man will lecture you about why you should re David Foster Wallace's essay. In this book you're right I'm actually GONNA. Put It in my movie and show you and I think the same is true Amanda for what you're talking about with the baby. It's cold outside bit I mean I think that's a completely knowing act. To say, this is what this tip would do, and I know that you know that we've all had this debate in the past, and so let's all recognize it together, which is a little five chests I think but it never it doesn't personally bother me yeah. I. The thing is that by the end of the movie, I understood why the baby it's cold outside and you're right that as the references pile up. For me the Pauline Kale recitation is when that theme of like winning influences and and are we what we consume and like and do we exist other than the things that we like you know watch an invest our time and kind of clicked in because it's it's not like she jessie Buckley is like now I will recite this review from hauling. Kale. She just like starts talking and then you realize because you've seen. The book already and and because she has previously like recited a poem that is presented as her own work but then it turns out not to be I can't remember who the poet is. Please forget me as a woman Adhd who Kaufman spent some time with when they were in a sort of like a scholarly camp of some kind, some sort of grant that they both had and they they met there and so. He just put this relatively unknown poem in this movie rate and then sue and Jessie Buckley recites the poem, and then you see in the childhood bedroom like the book with the poem itself I guess that's when it clicks in right. But so she starts doing the Pauline Kale, and you're like Oh you're doing polling Kelly, get it and then and then comes the baby it's cold outside which and and then I. Think CA comes to David Rawson is supposedly fun thing. I'll never do again and it clicks in that. It is once again software which Jamie's point should've trusted from the beginning the self aware like there is nothing accidental entirely coffin every reference every joke every shot he is like cramming as much in because he's got a specific idea but I did find that the exploration of that idea of are we just like a agglomeration of influences was easier to appreciate after the fact, and I was still just a little annoyed living I some of these, some of these arguments again, which which is part and parcel of. Of the idea as well because as you said, Sean, he knows that this is what this type of person would do, and he's exploring the limitations and drawbacks of says wall as like the existential issues. Yeah and I think it extends to this idea of our any of our thoughts and opinions that we hold to us do they belong to us ever at all and he even goes into it on a micro level with just this idea of platitudes the second time I watched the film The platitudes. Really jumped off the way that Baluchi character uses platitudes to end conversations with Jake that. She doesn't want to have to put capper's on things and then you see his mom Toni Collette is like the Queen of using platitudes all nervously awkwardly, and it's almost like he's making fun of plug and play ideas, plug and play conversation and this inability to be present. Yeah and I can tell you from having spoken to Him and he was very nice man I could sense his general exasperation with me and just And? If. And, hopefully, not because I'm a complete dolt though I might be. But because I think having to explain yourself as kind of like anxiety of someone that is frequently this intelligent who puts a lot of their ideas into their work and it I I certainly thought a few times of aunt kind which is Charlie's new novel. Any have you had a chance to read that yet now I'm terrified I like I I have to get ready to do it. I. Haven't review I. Don't know anything about it oh. God I. Feel like I should take my earphones off at this point. I mean there's a very relevant aspect of it that is not a spoiler, but his would be meaningful to you. Okay. I don't WanNa hurt I don't WanNa hurt you in any way. closed her eyes like crazy. I just want everyone to understand the physical. I'm really separate that. I'm just going to tell you okay just just just go with it. The protagonist of an kind is a film critic I have heard this. It has slipped into my consciousness against my will yes and I won't say anything else I I loved the book I think it's Hilarious I and I think if you receive it in that way fantastic I don't know that every film it certainly feels modeled on a couple of contemporary film critics right now that's my that was my reading of it. So and I wonder how film critics are generally receiving it a few of them have reviewed it, but the book is very much the CPA. They certainly are. They certainly are just screen writers they share that, and so again with the Self referential in the kind of circular logic that he's using, it feels like all of this stuff is Kinda commenting on itself in real time but he does really funny thing that is almost inexplicable, which is is a fake movie. That is in the film and we see the old man and the film watching this fake movie, which appears to be a kind of hacky romantic drama comedy and plays out. There's a diner sequence, very poorly written played. You know there's a big crescendo moment emotional climax of the score and at the end of the movie which the old man finishes watching it says a Robertson Meka's picture which is just either a stray shot and Robert zemeckis or not and. You know we can talk about that joke and is he has told the story a few times about that joke and why it's there and he didn't originally have director's name in the script he said, but an assistant editor just took the title card from I WANNA say contact and put it at the end of and then they just left it in and he got some Meka's permission to do. So I'm not sure if that's true who knows with a Charlie Kaufman story, but the thing that had me thinking about and the thing that I thought about it but when I read the book was Is the old man Jake in his he reflecting on his past or an or a lost past or imagine passed or is Jake. Separate. From the old man because in the book, you don't necessarily completely get that sense. But then in the film, he does some things particularly at the conclusion of the movie he makes a big. To Have Jesse plants as character perform a song from Oklahoma that feels like a true mom less an aged Jesse Plemmons who does not like the old man but may probably representing him do you guys think that that character is one and the same or do you think that this is a sort of a matt more of a mass delusion amy I? Oh Gosh. You know answers only. If he's Not Him I think they are tethered just by a shared insecurity. You know I think. On second, Watch, I watch this trying to figure that out and then I, and then right at the beginning the my attention was going to watch again to figure this out like is jake the old man in the beginning I got hit by a line opening minutes where I think it's Jesse character says, sometimes, a thought is closer to reality than in action. It suddenly felt like Kauffman was just kind of blessing at the beginning in saying it's actually not about you don't have to worry about any of the puzzle logic here. It's all about seeing the emotion that you're feeling. And on Second Watch like instead of trying to solve the movie, what happened is I thought about that line. I thought about the scene where Jessie Buckley is trying to explain her quote unquote paintings that you find out. She didn't actually pay to the DAD and the data's like how can art have a point of view if there's no person in how can a painting be sad if there's no sad person, he made this big. this big. There's this big about what abstract art can be like. Can you just think of yourself looking out at the world? And suddenly decided what if Kaufman has not made it all movie, but he has made I think like. A moving representation of. Of of a painting. By that I mean you know for me I think like you you go to museum and you stare at a painting. and. You think about. Your own feelings of it you know it stirs something in you and it feels very individual and it feels private. And that's how this film works to me and I think he's explaining it the way through like don't don't try to logic your way out of this one. Let it just hit you. And put your. You know just put yourself here and see what you feel. Amanda, are you comfortable with the movie experience like that? No to the point that like I think everything that amy said was like very smart and insightful, and I would've answered the question completely differently, which is part of the genius of Charlie Kaufman and my answer would have been far more literal and overconfident in Amanda Fashion. because. Do well, it's a little bit but the way that China's his question is I guess knowing of me but also smart of just I'm not comfortable with that so I have to assign my own meaning. and. Provide a little more structure to the experience because that's the way I'd like to make to watch movies although a little bit. I think that's also what this movie is about I think to my literal answer to the question would've been that I think that like the Jake character is basically A. A daydream memory Combo of the janitor and it's it's part memory especially with the parents and that's why like the parents are different ages and different childhood experiences because you're bringing you think about the way that you remember things from your childhood or your your parents and it's Probably, not consistent in terms of memory and memory is obviously another thing that Kaufman likes to. Explore in his in his work but. And then I think they're they the character of the Jessie Buckley character and all of the the things that she is going to achieve or that Jake characterize meant to achieve are probably like. Dreams are some. Regrets or things that didn't really happen for the character and I think part of the reason that I am believe that or the text based justification for that is the janitor is shown watching various productions and movies throughout the the film including at one point he watches a production of Oklahoma, and then at the end you get the dream ballet, which is obviously a reference to Oklahoma and then at the very end Jesse plans sings the Oklahoma Song. So. It's a little bit about how you. See Yourself in the in general and I guess kind of like. How we think of ourselves and how we think of what we have achieved and what we didn't achieved, and then also like how we how we watch a piece of arch or look at a painting to back to your point and and what we do see ourselves ended and what we don't, and what we can project on and what we can't. The Ben that know whether that rings true or whether that's just amandus experience of things which either can be possible. I think the the multiple interpretations is the movie basically demands that I think that's a good thing. I think for I think to have a more literal or more philosophical or or esoteric definition or or expectation of the movies is a good thing. It's it's one of the reasons why even though I? Think it's an immensely frustrating especially for most people don't necessarily know what they're getting themselves into the first time. If you do give it a chance the second time you will get more out of it but one thing that's very interesting as far as distinctions between the book and the film is Something Kaufman has. Made. A big point about which is the empowering essentially the Jessie Buckley character to be something closer to human being and not just a kind of refraction of what could have been the kind of person that when quote Unquote Jake was a young man. He might have seen once in a restaurant and then created this Meta fiction in his life about what could have been and you know in a book that works just fine because we see the the the world entirely from this nameless woman's point of view until the very end in the movie. Kaufman wanted to imbue her with more humanity with more. Character with more realism I guess for lack of a better word. Do you think that that she is a good character a kind of a a powerful or or believable woman I guess is is really my question because that seems to be what Kaufman at least. You know explicitly saying is that he wanted to create a woman felt real. You know it's funny like when you first see that very first shot of her standing on the snowy street waiting to be picked up she actually seems a bit unreal in her outfit she's dressed. So colorfully, right? Gee, looks like Ito the fantasy kind of the color Palette that you know seeing Kate winslet internal like I'm the dream nineties color girl. And And then within the car very soon, her colors start to fade and she becomes more realistic to me I I I thought she was just like odds me cookie andy girl you know it's tough because like Jessie Buckley herself is a is an actress that I think has so much integrity like she can take the that movie that should a. Couple of years ago wild rose or she's like I'm a Scottish girl wants to be a country singer another ridiculous kind of character creation and you're like, yes, I believe that because you are so good that sounds like a fake movie in a Charlie Kaufman movie by the way right and she's amazing and she should have gotten Oscar. Nom because that's shape. So I don't know I mean I when you ask the question I keep thinking about the warring moment really early on the car which I think to me was like the first sign that this movie was not to be completely trusted. Besides the obvious that it's made maturity Kaufman where that she's trying to have heard her deep dwelling negative monologue that he keeps interrupting it that Jesse Clemens this character keeps cutting her off. And her. determination to be sour to hide her negative parts from him. Made her feel really real. You know her determination to sulk either I think that's such a human quality. To be I'd rather be alone in my misery than communicate with you. I mean, my knee jerk reaction is no she's not a real character and rubs me a little bit. The wrong way do frankly the way a lot of female characters in in Charlie Kaufman movies do and you know as amy referenced that Kate Winslet Eternal Sunshine of this. attornal sunshine of the spotless mind. Yeah. Got It. I. Mean That's Classic Manic. Girl right there. So and. I think there is a kind of a literal again I'm sorry to just like to be the really like boring texts killjoy in this conversation I mean I guess be true. Design Self. But. In this mess McLean would want from you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Amy For your support in me being really boring but. The character herself is ultimately revealed to just be repeating taxed and ideas of other people she is like she is. Like a dream girl of references and ideas and created, and that's intentional and sought out itself. So like I don't want to imply that there's not like interest in the female character intent or intention or thought but I think like every other character, she's ultimately like our projection and this is ultimately told from the perspective of like the The mail. Sad male who is really into David Foster Wallace and lake keep saying like the three mean girls from the the fake dairy queen and the and you had you have to think about the way the rest of the women are used in. In this movie, it's ultimately centered on him. That doesn't mean that it's not an interesting performance or that there's not an interesting element chewed the. I don't WanNa. Say character because that's the thing I don't think it's a character I think it's like our production. Yeah it's a it's a challenging. Thing to unpack obviously consciousness and the unconscious is everything that Kaufman is about I mean that's being John Malkovich about entering someone else's consciousness in that. What that means in the fusion of those two things at a tation is about dual consciousness and splitting yourself and this movie is very much the same way and his relationship to female characters is interesting to me because in so many movies. The seem like. Representations of something that he just can't relate to that he desperately wants to. Be Appealing for, but doesn't quite know how to block in on that. You know there's a kind of like there's a sadness Kaufman you know is married now and as an adult man is very successful. So it's not necessarily a personal reflection of his relationship to women, but you can't watch adaptation and even some execute New York and look at the relationship that the primary figures in those films have and not worry about his relationship to women a little bit and not just I personally i. And I think a lot of men who had at least deem themselves to be somewhat sensitive and kind of blown away by his vulnerability and his willingness to show that he feels completely adrift and does not. Know how related most people. But on the other hand that's not necessarily like an excuse for bad action is that kind of ability and sometimes he? PUTS. His characters in positions where they do things that are just terrible, I mean the the the the lead figuring anomalies says like such a flawed man who makes so many mistakes and his like borderline abusive to the other people in that film, all of whom look and sound like David through, which is a whole other conversation we can have another time. and. So I'm kind of at war with myself about whether I think he's like a really radical and progressive person when it comes to the idea of the relationship between men and women or if he is. Basically like a baby boomer who doesn't totally understand I mean he's sixty years old who doesn't necessarily totally understand how to relate to the opposite sex. So I don't know I'm sure you both have different interpretations of it. I. Could keep throwing questions that you guys and be like, what do you think and then amy can say her thing and then Americans they here thing that is a complete opposite which makes for an interesting conversation but what do you think? I mean, my interpretation is. I think you could take like say anomalies for example, and switch it around and have it be from the perspective of woman. But I think he doesn't trust himself enough to write a woman with justice. And so I think he does right what he knows but I relate to that movie. So deeply and the same thought in it I think he doesn't he doesn't. He's not gonNA be writing like wonder woman to like he is going to be reading his own weaknesses and I find them to be universal even though they're coming through the perspective of a man. You. Don't Edward, what you never see in any of his movies him trying to connect with a football jock or like a tough do characters male characters he can't really to don't even exist. But he is compelled to try to have love in his life and that is represented through women. Yeah I agree with amy that there is like such a specificity to it and to some extent a lot of his movies are about not being able to relate to anyone and also himself and he is he happens to be a man and so to the extent that he is interested in love and has like he's very cynical but also has a sentimental streak then these characters that he doesn't quite understand who in this case are are women just because of how sexual and preference and gender preference shook out in this particular arena. To me, it's okay but I like. So I can understand that he's explaining a exploring things that he doesn't quite understand. Her can't connect with and find like real insight in that while also holding in my head that you know that's maybe not like a full flesh woman but that's just because. He doesn't totally. He can't fully understand someone else. That's okay. But no, one cannot fully understand anyone else. That's the thing when you open Pandora's box of consciousness, you get held to this higher standard. This is an academy award winning screenwriter he might be the best screenwriter alive but. As soon, as you start asking these questions, you get held to a different standard because you make us aware of the fact that you're aware of the questions. In fact, you might even let us know that you can ask such questions in a movie, which is that's really the thing I think that I respond to over and over again is. Not. Unlike what you were saying at the top of the conversation Amanda. The Oh. You can do that. You can actually say out loud that awful thing that is in the back of my mind that is scraping the back of my brain and making me feel like someone who is incomplete or who doesn't have a on things were has anxiety or frustration or confusion in my life on a day-to-day basis, and that's intoxicating for somebody who feels like they have a lot of problems but also a bit terrifying to know that like you're are also can be representative of those fears and concerns that you have. Let's try to wrap up this conversation. So one thing Charlie said to me was I guess he doesn't Count Anomaly say as a one of his films he co directed it and it was based on a radio play originally but he said he hadn't been able to get a movie made in twelve years and he sees this as his swansong and you know there's been some news that he's maybe adopting a couple of things for television that could come out in the future but. This would be a an interesting way to go out as a filmmaker. Amy How do you feel about the potential end of the Charlie Kaufman? Run. I think he's a buffer. WANTS TO BE BEGGED TO COME BACK Every movies I mean it away I appreciate that with every movie he makes you tries to say everything he needs to feel like I feel like a New York almost could've ended after that movie because he said literally everything about the human condition in then he dropped the mic and walked it Oh walked away for twelve years. I did it what else I if you have it's like it's like the Talmud. Any question you have it's in that movie somewhere. Else word in the script is die. Yes There's your whole life. You're done I would like more of him and yet he's a filmmaker that. I. Feel I. I'm nervous about the day when he makes them thing I. Don't like I'm very scared like I. think that's what makes me so scared to approach everything like some day he will disappoint me he'd probably look me in the IRA. I'm Kaufman, will someday disappoint you. All I do is disappoint myself. So that scares me. It scares me a lot. You GotTa text me after you've read an kind, I need to know what you think. The event potentially disappoints you, Amanda. What about you in general? What do you think about? What Kaufman has done and and if this feels like a a useful swansong I guess I mean I uses we don't need to bring you into to anything. That's that's unfair. I'M NOT GONNA put that on anyone I want for super agree with amy about the laughing and just in general people are always just like I'm quitting I'm never doing it again until they. tried. It's like once on people in the arts you feel depleted you're like I'm dying and then then Lo and behold six years later for whatever reason. But I I do think depleted is not an accidental choice of words there that this this movie does feel like another mic drop, another Sense of I'd like I have given everything and I have explored the limits of what it means to. To, remember and to make art and to try to see myself in a piece of art and you can understand like though leaving it on the floor quality of like I don't I don't really know how to do this specific thing again and give of myself in this way especially. Given the end of this movie and what this movie says about creation and. Sharing. Yourself with others so I can see it but also will say one last question. How do you feel about the animated pig? Amy. Ugo I. Oh, God in that line, someone has to be a pig infested with maggots. Oh are we all arly all and the maggots are all this cultural influence that we've taken over years what a beautiful metaphor. To winning. I'm Lisa came out. I did a couple of you know here in La when there's a word seasons, you like talk about the film of the filmmaker afterwards for audiences are trying to get it but publicity, and so I had to do and for me, and because of that I was on a text chain with Charlie Kaufman and he sent a bit Moji in it is just a treasured thing in my life. He sent everybody the BMO degree on what time we'd meet and it was just himself saying almost. Great. That's exactly especially because meeting someone if that level you know meeting your heroes I, don't know about you. It makes me extraordinarily nervous. As soon as you said I did it I was on a text coughing and I was like Oh no protect amy like protect your love that. But that's great that it turned out the way you want it with. EMOJI Amanda I'm not GonNa let you duck the enemy to pay question. I just wanted to. We have to re maggots into it. I don't even care the animation I was like all right we're exploring like you know forms and what everyone can be sure why not but like I just didn't need maggots s that's where I'm going in terms of things that I am not interested in maggots up there on top can't believe said at this many times on five gas to say it again. What an amazing way to end this segment of the show amy I'm so glad you're here. Thank you so much. There's probably fifty percent less maggots content because you were part of this. I appreciate you always glad to be responsible for fewer maggots. Yes Amy. What? What shows are you doing to the you WanNa, tell the world where they can hear more of you. Oh sure. unspoilt season to just started. One the show that I do with. Paul share, we went through the entire AFI top one, hundred list we finally finished it. We finally finished the entire AF, I one hundred lists, and now we are very seriously just rebuilding a better one hundred list by going on many side quests. You know this month are still in the middle of doing a thing on school movies, and so we're doing Cooley high. Standing, deliver doing, fast times at Ridgemont high adventure classics, and yet we're just like going to try to watch everything and build the most perfect perfect one hundred list, and then we are going to blasted off into space because this planet is dying, and once we have the perfect films we will. I am not kidding about this figure out how blessed them space that they will outlive us and unspoiled satellite. Unbelievable. I Love Sports. CONGRATS on season one season two is cool. Amanda work in the world here you on the big picture where. Sipping picture jam session with have lemon. I don't know where else can people hear me I. Don't I don't know in their nightmares probably. All Life's performance for Amanda Dobbins Amy Thank you again if you want hear more of a man than I will be back next week talking about a little movie called ten it. Until then thanks guys before we go to my conversation with Ian Read Charlie Kaufman. Let's hear quick word from our sponsor. Today's episode of the big picture is brought to you by qube missing a little thrill in your life right now, look no further wireless is coming and it's available only on quitting a new streaming platform that offers fresh original shows created and produced by Steven soderbergh big picture favorite of Haywire and ocean's thirteen comes a survival thriller. No other set in the Colorado Mountains, volatile Sheridan as he plays Andy Braddock college student. Stranded in a blizzard after crashing his car and snowbank but nothing, but his phone to keep them alive experienced this heart pounding race against the clock from dual perspectives as you simultaneously watch what's happening to Andy in the real world and the events transpiring on Andy's foam catch wireless on September fourteenth only on Qube that's qube spelled Q. U. I b. I download the APP now and get a two week free trial. Today's episode of the big picture is also brought to you by Heineken Heineken would like to remind you that it's time for seasonal beers again, that's right. If you thought a cold crisp summer Heineken with something just wait until you taste the Heineken fall lineup is a new product. No just the same great tasting lager. It's perfect for any season. To sit down in front of my TV crackle behind again and watch as many movies as I can in one night Heineken. Original Logger is made with pure malt and our famous a yeast which makes Heineken and all season all the time kind of beer. So pick up a pack or get it delivered whatever your style drink responsibly. I'm delighted to be joined by two guests right now Charlie Kaufman Ian re guys. Thank you for joining the show. So in you know admire of Your Book Charlie I'm a huge admire your work. Frankly I was very excited to hear that Charlie were adapting this novel and I'd love to know why you decided to adapt the novel because obviously you were aware of your relationship to the idea of adaptation, but not specifically covering something in this way. So maybe you could talk about when you discovered the book and what you responded to. Well, I was looking I was actively looking for something to adapt because until I made a better chance of getting a movie made if I if I had done something that was pretty existing show to a studio because that seems to be the way it works these days And this particular book was really intriguing to me and I love the dreaming of Ed and I also love the fact that it was small. Is, I, appreciated that about and small bicycle I. Mean it was few locations and. Characters would also be I. thought might have a better chance of getting financing for something. That was small so I just I think, I think it was recommended to me Amazon based on. Founded. Ian How did you feel when you heard that Charlie would be taking this on while I? Mean I was I was just thrilled and excited when my agent had sent an email. Saying, would you have an opportunity next week to speak to Charlie Kaufman and by told US Charlie already but I I remember it well because i read the email and then I looked down at my desk to my little desk counter. And the week. The next week was literally blacks. I didn't have one thing and I thought, yeah I can probably talk to Charles Austin next week that's probably manageable and so I obviously replied right away said, yes, I would love that. And she arranged a phone call and that was the first time that we had any kind of interaction. Is just a phone call between the two of US and we talked briefly about the book I would say only for about ten fifteen minutes, and then we talked for another forty five fifty minutes just about a variety of things books in movies and music, and I just lost that call feeling like I. I really liked Charlie I. Obviously had been aware of his movies and loved his movies I'm sure they had influenced me somehow. Out After that I call I felt like I you know. I appreciated him as a person to after having talked to him and I. Then just became really. Hopeful at the prospect of this happening. Do you remember what you guys bonded over what movies, what books you discussed. I mean Charlie may I actually I don't specifically remember I mean I think. It's the the conversation bounced around I. Think. More even than the specific. Titles or or albums it was just I think chart for for me to Charlie manner on the phone I had I had talked to three or four. roosters. Before who are who are maybe potentially interested and they felt much more formal to me they felt. I was kinda nervous going into those calls because I'd never. I was just coming literary world in Canada I'd never had no admission in the film side of things so I didn't think anybody would have interest in this. So I was kind of just trying to get that and it felt different night when trauma sockets much more just like two people having a phone conversation and and just Charlie was really nice to me and So I I remember that I remember just the. The tone of the conversation and how Charlie came across to me made the the idea of maybe working with one that I? Seem to be a really exciting. Charlie because adaptation I think we have this idea of what your writing processes like especially when you're adapting something, it's so unusual that we can almost picture you doing your work even if that's an exaggerated or fictionalized version was was it was an agonizing two, adapt this book in that way or was it easier than than what we've seen in the Nicholas Cage version? And that. was a long time ago. Very early in my career and also that was a book at wasn't a novel and didn't have a through or plot. It was about flowers there. There was a little bit of a kind of story about this Guy Laroche but. Wasn't. It wasn't the bulk of the book and And I, really wanted to do justice to it. At the time I mean, think the con- conversation have of the producer in the movie is pretty close to what the conversation was like why can't I do movie where there's no story where nothing happens where it's about the history of orchids and All of the sort of. The sort of moves around in the into these different worlds collectors and the you know the criminals and the court cases and and I didn't know I mean, I didn't know how I was going to do it and ultimately. Failed at it and I struggled with I couldn't move on it, and so that's when I started thinking about incorporating myself into it but I mean I have added other things before must've not. Made. But have done it over the years mostly as assignments not for something for me direct. So You know. It was the same issues. There was a story here. You know I knew it was going there were characters. There were issues for me that I had to sort of address for to make it into my thing, which is something else i. feel like I'm more comfortable with now maybe because of adaptation. which at first when I was younger and I was like an adapt somebody else's work it felt. To be faithful this thing you know this person did this work. It's in my charge and a half to. Do it and I come to decide over the years that in order for me to do something I have to kind of bring myself to it otherwise boring. Otherwise it's not. It's going to be like cardboard copy of what this thing was as opposed to a learning Benning which is, which is I think something I learned in doing the movie adaptation, which is a great extreme example of that but it is an example of added wetering something like and had translated this other form. You. Know Ian. When I read the book, I certainly thought it was unfilmable. So to speak, that's something you hear about a lot of novels especially novels that are heavier that operate inside someone's mind or there's a sort of a narrator figure like this in your book Did you think after it was published that it would be adapted at any point? no no I I really didn't. So I mean my when I started reading the book I, I remember I had to have a conversation with my agent just to let her know that I sort of stumbled across this idea. And I wanted to follow through with it and it was unusual and it was unsettling and it felt personal to me and and I wasn't sure where it was going to go. And she encouragement keeper keep writing it. She said it seems like something you have to do and it seems to me as I was writing it it seemed the farther along got more interested in it. I got. But also It seemed sort of more unlikely that even outside the publisher because it was getting very strange and there were aspects that were a little bit experimental in philosophical and I, I, think you know many publishers would find that appealing and also again coming from Canada I didn't have an American publisher at that point and so I definitely had had no thought or ambition on the cinematic side I'm a I'm a big fan of film and movies I used to. Help out a little cinema in in Kingston Ontario where I live in. A little three cinema theater and I love it. There I love movies. But no I never I never had that in my mind I think. This the novel by the end because I don't right with outline anything by the end of it. it was very internal and bury a philosophical in definitely unsettling and there are. It's that think there are moments of suspense but yeah, I, think any any interest from the film side was surprising. But especially when you know when Charlie reached out in, it was someone who I who I really admired. Completely surprised and even that felt surreal I mean just the back then I was sitting at my little best talking to Charlie on the phone about my book that fouled. I never could have imagined. Charlie, you're very faithful to the spirit of the novel and quote from it at times, but you really kind of explode or size the premise. So I'm curious when you finished reading it what were the challenges that you mentioned? What were the things that you decided you wanted to add to make it personal? I'm always looking what I'm dealing with With kind of. Surreal Dreamy or just odd a story lines to find something that I can. A anger at two in the real world and I felt like because there's so much time. That's. In the car in this in this story, and there's so much going on between these two people that I needed a certain specificity to. The young. Woman. And to their relationship and I needed to understand. What I could tell the actors they were doing in the real world even though there's this other element to it. That is not the real world is like what is this relationship and I wanted her I wanted to give some agency and some autonomy. And I wanted her to resist. Ultimately, resist lately a what he was insisting she do, and so there is that progression towards the ultimate resistance and. So then it became for me a great deal about romantic rejection and like the idea that you're in a relationship and it's new and you bet these ideas about what the other person is. And they feel because it's new for them to kind of flattered that you're interested in that and they wanna be this thing you want them to be but you in the engine cannot be the same and there has to be resistance to it and I wanted to I wanted that to the dynamic between. The two characters in the two people in the car. So I feel like that was something that I may be on. elaborated on. That I saw them I mean I saw it in the in the in the book collaborated on it. I gave them more of that and And in in in so. I, kind of let I kind of was it left me free to change the ending bit and. Give her the ultimate an agency. Like. She observed as a human being and it is as a practical thing good thing to do for actors because it gives them something. Play In in a concrete story that's being where people are where people casts as characters in a book. It's a different thing is a different thing for the audience to witness that than it is for them to read it in. So that was I think. A big part of what I was trying to. Ian You mentioned the novel has elements of suspense and you're kind of ratcheting tension as the story goes along at but also ratcheting. Confusion in the narrative propulsion. Charlie. I. Feel like the movie. Is, disorienting and sort of mooring you all the time and showing US things it may or may not be there and we're trying to kind of wrap our arms around things. Is that something that you guys discussed like? To kind of differentiate some of those ideas visually. The idea of that, maybe not this all of the specifics, but I think that's in the book that that's something that I responded to. There's a kind of shift shift. Am I correct about that in a long time since I read the book so but I feel like there's shifting. Reality in. In the book as well yes. Yes. And also I think Charlie to like what we talked about. You know the book really for me more than anything is about questions and to me some of the some of these questions are are philosophical by nature, but they're also I think. As as one question leads into another as a coaster, answer, it suspense builds and I think that me is why the story in the novel ended up being suspenseful and unsettling because some of these questions lend themselves to that and it was kind of again interesting for me to see how that, how that got when Charlie when you took that and. wrote the scripts, how that kind of Have some questions came out in the movie as well but because you said the same about the summer that you feel like it's It's really about questions more than answers. Yeah and I think it's really I. Think it's also about interpretation. Like there I think it's open to interpretation and I and I feel like that's important to me. which which which again is like the book out there it's really there is no wrong way to interpret it that you just you know if you spend time with it, you have as much authority as either you or I do to interpret in your way. Can I fling one of my theories that you guys then about the movie Yes lease. So Charlie you you include all of these these references to art. There's wordsworth in Christina's world and Van, novel and. A Review Pauline Kale's review of a woman under the influence, all of these. You know these ideas and they all seem to be kind of about female oppression and isolation and. I. AM I. Am I am I is that the right track and Ian does it do even recognize those ideas from your book when you see this stuff kind of expanding into the movie? I do think I can remember someone. Re on early reader of the book. Editor actually who had read a friend of mine who said that she thought almost more than anything the book was about the writing. Process. And I I was surprised she had. That was in my head a little bit. You know there's there's always a variety of different things when you're working on something that different threads of of sort of reality and focus that you had as you're working on something in that that was in my head sort of struggling with certain as someone who spends their time writing. So I think again I for me, that was certainly part of the novel and then to see how that came through in Charlie's version was was interesting for me. And Charlie what about for you? I mean can you just talk a little bit about the decision to include all those those flash points those references? Yeah I think that I think what you're saying scrapped and I also think that it it does come back to the idea oppression comes back to the idea. Of projection you know you can be oppressed by someone's projection that you will be impressed by something's projection. So yeah, there is a great deal of of oppression. In in in this that is being. That is being progressively resisted. By that character. And also that. Whatever whatever oppression is present also turns itself. On the person who oppresses. And and I think that's where our jake as a character it's is it's isolating. There's no real connection in his life who anything is it's all about this these ideas that he he's formulated. Or? About other human beings about himself and his relation to other. Charlie, did you think about things that you want us to do to make it purposefully more cinematic as a story because obviously you incorporate musical theater and dance in a couple of other things into the into the film that you know would not not in the in the book? Necessarily I mean, you know we're all night and he talked a lot about had translate this into a movie and we're concerned because it's because the environment is so contained that we not eat all. And get. Some, ideas. About how to conceptualize the notion of something that's somebody's Ed, which which we utilized and in there in those are specifically cinematic. They're not things that could work as in a book A certain thing about how count the cameras moving in anticipating different things, which is something that might happen in if you're imagining seeing your also also ahead of yourself and imagining, the next thing is going to be in the camera place that role. So that's one of the things. I wanted to ask you guys both about creating expectation in the idea of readers or viewers of film trying to solve the thing that they're watching or reading in I. Think a big part of the novel that is so effective as people trying to figure out what's really going on here like why do things feel so wrong in his they're kind of a solution to this lack of clarity that we have. Charlie I found like you took a slightly different approach to this and did not necessarily seem to me as interested specifically in the solving of the thing, it's a little bit easier to unpack, but I read the book for us all the movie, and so I have more information than some people were just coming to the film you know Ian, can you maybe talk about setting? Expectation for reader and kind of withholding, and then Charlie maybe the decisions you made there some if they're if I'm right about this that they're slightly against that. Yeah, I mean I think I try not to have too many expectations for the for a reader when I'm writing I I wanNA think as much as possible about the story and what is working for the story and Again what of feels right for me and and and kind of. Go from there and. I do think that you know a book like this. It's interesting for me to see how different people. After they read it. People referred only as sort of a thriller or psychological thriller, which for me never really was the case in my mind when I was writing it. And I, think some people call it a horror novel again for me that's not really what I had in my mind. it was for me sort of just a short literary novel and I. Remember Telling Again, talking with my editors when it was done and we were talking about different parts of it and and I made reference to that something about. Literary. Or philosophical suspense than I think both them were a little bit. Not pleased with that because it didn't feel like you could sort of market that at all I think you know they WanNa know is this a thriller as I understand that impulse from publisher because I didn't have that expectation I didn't even necessarily think of it as having any kind of twist ending you know again I think a lot of people maybe. Have talked about that and some people have said Oh. Oh i. you know I read this and I figured out the twist ending halfway through and to me it's not about that. It's it's. It's. It's really just about story about these people in kind of journey that they go on and presenting questions for me at the time. I wrote that were kind of. important personal questions stuff that I was thinking about, and so I wanted to write about it and Charlie did you think that this sort of the quote unquote twist ending and the revelations that some people took from the book I? It feels like you dispatch with that in some respects. I was I didn't want I feel like it's A. Different animal. From a book and I felt like I didn't want the. I didn't want the road to lead to that. You know this thing which is. Perhaps, reveal or twist. I didn't want him I mean it was it was the. It was the construct that I was dealing with but I wanted there to be I, want any dispatch with it to sort of like say I think that you can you know understand early on if you want or if you if if you're sensitive to that, this is what's happening and then therefore what else you know that's why I wanted to sort of rooted in this stuff that interested me about relationships and dynamics between relation in relationships between depot. And the ideas of of. Memory and and fantasy and regret all which is in Innsbruck. It's all. It's all there. It's all part of the book but I wanted. To come first so that you weren't looking in the way that I think people have been with the book not always but. You know sitting when he's saying that there seems to be this like. Search to find out what's going on. In some cases I didn't. I didn't think that was going to be effective in a movie. So. The aspect of it being very interior the aspect of it being a An interior monologue but not really the interior non-elected you're listening to is fascinating to me and that's Indians Book and wanted to pursue that aspect of it in kind of. That forward in the movie. Charlie gun the sense that in revisiting your films, you're getting increasingly impatient with standard narrative devices in movies, and even in this movie, you're capturing some things that he and his doing this sort of finishing each other's sentences or correcting each other's sentences and this idea of the collision of identity at times but and then there are these long stretches of dialogue. You know there. There must have been pages and pages of scenes single scenes of dialogue. I mean, do you feel like the movie is kind of a manifestation of how you feel at this point about just making a movie like what it's like to make a movie? Yeah I mean I'm always I'm always ever since I wrote being John Malkovich I think. It's always in my head. Oh, I can't do this. Therefore, I must do this. You know what I mean is this is not acceptable movie so I'll do it. I'm constantly in my mind pushing that, and so yeah, I mean like I wanted this home in the movie. As Long. Written by a a HD friend of mine wrote this poem and And I think that. Was Not, in for the movie, but it so pertains to the movie. Incidentally perhaps. That I wanted it. I wanted a poem and I wanted this home and I didn't wanNA truncated want to like. Cut Away from it and I wanted the whole poem in there and it felt. Like. You can't do that. So I did it. And I feel like that is it's constantly like, yeah, it's an car. There's lots of talking I'll do that. I. Don't know if it's an impatience but maybe it is maybe it's like I'm tired of. Lease. And so you know I really felt like this was my slot saw maybe more than anything else done like this is my last chance to do a movie. And I don't really care if. It leads to another movie. So I'm GONNA do exactly what? I want with it and that's One Way to do it. That's that's who dramatic but do you see this response? Movie made since two, thousand, eight. So you know Like all of us from getting older. So it's not unrealistic to think that this would have been my last movie. Now I still might be, and I'm finding with that. Now it's not like a I. Think I had a kind of like a sort of anger and bitterness about it in the past I could get things mayb I. Don't feel that way anymore. I mean I'm just. Associated Associate Ian read then with Charlie Kaufman's. Last movie or him stepping worker movies that that would be Charlie's career and. Exactly. I was a fan before so that that would be covered in on the flip side. Can you just talk about the experience of seeing something that you helped to create become actualized onscreen? Yeah I. Mean it was it's a it's been a wonderful experience and I think one that's heightened because of that lack of anticipation or that lack of expectation. Beforehand it was all completely out of the blue and surprise and so I just kind of went along with at one I think because as I said from that I call Charleena seem to. Hit it off and you know I appreciated the way he is approach to work and to film art and I I enjoy talking to him and so that I think and the fact that he was very nice and kind to me a generous with his time, I think anything that we do in in life any kind of work is is heightened by. Working with people who are like that who are generous and kind. So I think just that in of itself made the process for me while. But then from the perspective of just learning about silman how movies made and how how to write a screenplay and I'd never seen anything I'd written before. Adapted I had only you probably read about handle at screenplays in my life. So to to read the screenplay that had was sort of adapted from my own work was fascinating and I loved reading the script and. I loved talking to Charlie about. The movie early on we were sending you know when we first start talking about the possibility of making this movie, we would just send. Accurate back and forth and music back and forth over the course of months you know different. Possibilities of obscure European actors who might play. And it's not I think we both found that fun and and so the just to see it through the whole process and then to be able to go down to the filming, see what that was like and see if I've never I've never seen a film shot before. So I got to see all the different and for me that was you know the the star comparison between being. Alone at your desk basketball shorts reading a novel for two years, you know compared to one hundred people moving around film said in all the different jobs and it was I opening for me and I just I just learned so much in the process and I think because I you know I get along so so well with Charlie and I'd like him and I appreciate his approach. It just made the whole thing enjoyable Charlie I've been reading your novel and kind which is. And really just wonderful and. I. Was wondering how you would feel about someone else adapting your novel. I'm actually doing that. We're we wanted today. I'm. Writing and directing. Anton its announcement here on the podcast now. I I WANNA point out online no one has approached me. The movie seems like it seems like it would be a challenge based on. This after I would not I would not allow I. don't say. I don't know how to make it into a movie or even as even a limited series So I feel it's unlikely somebody else's GonNa come to me with a plan if anyone comes to me. That I would find acceptable. So originally I designed this is something that could not be made into a movie that was Actually My intention so and I've softened on that sense you know I mean it's possible could be made into something but but I think I would have to do it if it were to happen. I would like to see it though I, I struggle to imagine it in some ways but that's Something I said earlier about taking. A book, which is words on a page and making a concrete, and there's some ambiguity. That you that can exist a book that makes this very difficult for to exist in a in a in a movie and there are things that will have to answer in in the In the course of the movie that I don't know if I want answered and being vague about this but But there there ways you can think about this story that if you had to commit. To something visually, you couldn't. You couldn't go back and forth on. This kind of oversimplified but is there a novel to screenplay adaptation that you think? You know really heightens the the screenplay version or that you think that you particularly look to and think they really nailed this brought something special to this. I mean I, I don't. I don't read a lot of screenplays so I'm trying to have to look at a movie. And thank does that. Does that is that more interesting than the bulk nothing is coming to mind I'm sure there are. She look I feel like I addressed that an aunt kind. But I can't remember what examples I used and of course, they weren't my example they were bees. So I don't know if I would agree with him but He does he does talk about the. Few exceptions where the movie is better than the book. and and they might be conspicuously wrong is that was Way I. Decided what he? I can't think of anything I'm sorry one thing I wanted to ask you both before we wrap is the film and the book are both subject to the kind of red at board analysis and because this is a Netflix film I I suspect. Charlie, this may end up being the most seen thing that you make and think of it. It's really really sad. For No, the DVD market I think that there's going to be a lot of Internet. Of the story of the novel, which you've seen over the years in, and now of this movie is going to be a lot of screen shots. There's going to be a lot of gifts how how does it feel to know that it's going to be picked over in this way? I mean, we don't know we're guessing it might be but if it is I, I don't know I mean I like stuff like that I don't have any problem with it. I mean it's interesting to me. People's theories are interesting. So yeah. I mean the comparisons I think between the book in the movie too I think that's going to be a big topic of conversation so. What do you think? I mean I think I like it I I think that's you. You spend time working on something a particular with writing it. So solitary. I in my in again for me it's always you. Never. I'm never thinking too much about is anybody actually going to read this I I often don't really think that because it seems like such a long shot that people are going to come across your work and so the idea that people will come to the movie comes the book and WanNa talk about it is sort of to me exactly why do you want people to react and you want people to have strong reactions even if that's like North they love it. You know reacting in thinking about it talking about it, discussing it coming up with questions and theories I mean not. That's why we do it in a in a certain way and to me that's not that's almost more satisfying than anything. Yeah and and I and acted at for me. It's like one of the reasons I don't WanNa talk about. What I'm trying to do things but I feel like I've talked about March with this movie. So hopefully am is still suffer people to argue about. Watched it, and it's you know it demands many watches and even just going back through the book against the same experience where it's on the one hand feels like you're hunting for clues. But on the other hand, you're just kind of letting decisions that both of you guys made wash over you in a way that I think is really is unusual. I. It's one of the reasons why I love both things so much Guys we end every episode of this show with a question. What is the last great thing you've seen? have either of you seen anything special maybe during quarantine. well, I would say and it's actually maybe relevant because it's affected a little bit to the question you ask Charlie. But it's it's It's something that I think about because it's both at amazing novel brilliant novel. It's an it's an equally brilliant film in in my mind which is under the skin and so that's one that also I think. I demands multiple readings and viewings, and there's some different. You know the novel and the film they're they're very, very different and I really appreciate them both do you have a preference between the two? Well, i. read the novel I in it was one I what I love about the novelists unclassifiable it's it's it's sort it's a little bit science fiction it's literary. It's a little bit of horror. There's elements I don't think I have a favorite I I I think probably skew towards the novel just because I I like novels and for me. It's one of the most memorable films of the last. Decade or. Twenty years and one that I just have returned to recently. So it's it's in my mind again how I wonder what? I'd like to know what he was thinking when he when he adapted because it is so different and different there's so much not explored. In the movie. I mean consciously not exploring the movie that the book is about and and I. I think the movies gorgeous. Gorgeous and stuff it always is. But I I like the not yes. So you. Feel like the novel is so much was really interesting on it is yeah and the idea isn't it? Really interesting? And and much more for me much more. and. I don't know I would have made a completely different movie that he made Road. And I and I'm curious because he obviously had an idea and he was pursuing it and I said I think it's beautiful. This carrier has already swing the whole. The whole point of the book is missing. In my mind. Yeah it's it's a different. It seems almost like a different point i. Yes. Right. Exactly. You know and I think what I predict. Curious know what that now decisions in. Yeah it's just it's a neat I think it's an interesting example because to me it's one that they're both their own thing for me. They're both very successful. They're both memorable in one. Entities that you want to return to and think about so yeah, it's it's. It's definitely in the top of mindless. Yeah. I'm happy to report that I did in fact profile Jonathan Glazer during the release of this and asked him the questions that you guys are asking. I would not say I got a satisfactory answer to the questions asking that's interesting because he refused because he was incapable that's your. I mean, I don't really know I think I think some of it was elusive to him in some of it was just withholding when you just said that you don't want to say too much about you've done Charlie and I think that there was some of it was about that as well. But I had the same experience I read the book and I was like this. Was One of my favorite films as well, but it's just not there. There there. There's something missing between the two we her. The book but it's you know it's It's it's really it's pretty neck and neck. Honestly. Charlie what about you have? You have you seen anything recently that impressed you removed you. You know I, mean it. I seen this series before but I watched it again recently It's this little thing called ten fifteen. Do you notice? Yeah I I like astounded by those. Like how they are able to transform into that a, it's really good. And I'm like really impressed with their performances and how they embody this. Younger version of themselves. So seamlessly and coexist with actual children at age and don't. Seem out of place at all. So yeah I mean it's it's probably an odd choice for me but I just I just finished watching the first ten episodes again. So you have you seen this thing I have not but this sounds Sunday. These these two women who were probably in their thirties. I, guess play. Thirteen year olds in junior high school in among actual that age. And their best friends in this in this story, and it's about you know the trials of being that age of being a girl age and right and but but it's like they're so good at it and. And it's not played. Very. Subtle beautiful transformation. So is it a comedy? It's a comedy, but it's got some. It's got some hard sadness. It's got the sadness of being in in. You know being picked on or being ignored or being in love with doesn't like you or your parents are having problems. You know that's Right. Okay. Looks at. Okay. Interesting that both of your picks have something to do with identity and consciousness, and we are and what we're what bodies we occupy filling. In common ultimately with I'm thinking of anything Charleena. Thank you guys very much are doing this I. Really Love The book and the film. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you again to Charlie Kaufman Ian Read Amy Nicholson and of course Amanda. Dobbins please stay tuned to the big picture next week when Amanda and I will dive deep into the world of Christopher Nolan's tenant. See you then.

Charlie Kaufman amy Jessie Buckley Amanda Fashion. Unquote Jake John Malkovich amy I Netflix Pauline Kale Jesse York Chris Ryan Amy Nicholson Los Angeles David Foster Wallace Sean New York director writer
CinemaCon: John Wick 3, Rian Johnsons Knives Out, Wild Rose, Long Shot, and David Copperfield

/Film Daily

36:37 min | 2 years ago

CinemaCon: John Wick 3, Rian Johnsons Knives Out, Wild Rose, Long Shot, and David Copperfield

"Hello. And welcome to another episode of slash daily slash home editor in chief Peter at during me today is slash home senior redder than Pearson. Hey, what's going on? So we are here at the airport or stuck in Las Vegas and can't leave spent delayed. Yeah. It's been delayed. But we did have a bunch more to talk about from cinema. Con- we've been covering cinema gone on this podcast that you probably know this is the annual convention of movie theater owners, they come to Vegas and the studio big studios. Come showcase. Their latest their next year of films in the one. We're talking about today. We're gonna talk about Lionsgate, which has three films. They kind of profiled, and we're also gonna talk about two films that we actually saw in full here wild rose and long shots in. We're also going to talk about data call field because we saw that on one of our nights off here in Vegas. So let's start things. I I. With landscape. So I guess let's start with what everybody's probably most into spitting here, and that's John wick three para bell. Yes. And this is from ZIM director, Chad and he came on stage. And actually, this is something I didn't know did you know, what he said he said he started early key. Was originally a stunt double for Keno on their original matrix. Yes. Yeah. That's like one of the big selling points of those guys. Chats us to hausky is last name, and he has been an action choreographer for a long time. He sort of transitioned from being a stunt guys who an action choreographer to director, and he's been sort of leading the John wick franchise. So he's back with chapter three. Now, I knew that they were involved with Joe skis stunt, capacity. I didn't know that he was Keno double that specific back anyways Halle Berry joined them onstage and talking about how. We are in a airport. We're gonna get announcements we apologize in advance. But she trained for five months for the Spartans claims. It's one of the hardest things that she's had to do in the entire career. So they showed a clip from the movie, which we say about the clip it wasn't. Yeah. It was just a clip. And it was basically just it seemed to take place in the castle on the beach, and John wick and Halle Berry's character. Basically, just go through the lower floors of this castle just wrecking people with guns like the, you know, it's just it's like a video game. There's just bad guys popping up left, and right, and they're just blowing up way. Nameless. Henchman always like dress on their head describe that. Yeah. Headdress and they're taking them out. And I think that the new thing here is you have the stylistic hard heading John wick action that we're used to. But now, you have in addition to John wake you have female bad ass, you know, taking taking people out. But in addition to that. There's her dogs are Mexico. Just two dogs who are kind of falling her command and executing these vicious downs. Yeah. If you can imagine what a John wick fight would look like what dogs. That's it. Yeah. And there's one moment where I think the dogs are wearing like bulletproof vests or something and Halle Berry before the the fight the bloodbath, really begins. She sort of slips an extra gun under the vest of one of the dogs. I think as a way for her to to always have that as a backup ammo. But he's so these dogs are really like integral to the action. There's one moment in particular where she sort of being held up against a wall and looks up and notices that on the second story above her. There's a gunman up there and she yelling gauging in some hand to hand combat and she yells to one of her dogs and the dog like jumps up off of her. I think off of her back onto the wall and off the wall up like, I think. Yeah. Like and fifteen par Corey. Ring basic off of. Yeah. It was it was pretty incredible. And he takes out the gunman up top. So. Yeah, these dogs. Look, I mean, that's that's definitely a obviously, the John wick movies are about dogs. But these dogs are actually getting out on the actual action this time, and I think you're right. That's the cool thing about the footage that we saw is that Halle Berry looks like she's holding her own. She's not just like off in the corner. She didn't one or two people. She's doing the moves just like Keno is the whole time. And you know, it it seems obvious. Now in retrospect, why not have some dogs in on this action, especially you know, this is such a dunk Centric story beginning, but it it's so unexpected seeing this, and it's so cool. And maybe that's maybe that's a bonding thing character thing between his character and hers because we know that he's been like excommunicated at the end of the second movie. So maybe that's maybe their shared love of pets is the reason that they she decides to help them out or something like, I know there are some lines in the beginning of the clip that we saw that way. I think he said we aren't going to go. In the old days, and she says nothing's ever conversation with. Yeah. Yeah. Are we going to carry on with these announcements? I don't they'll have to. I think we just got a barrel through it. Yeah. Okay. Next up was the they had the Andrew and John Irwin. These are the guys that produce. I can only imagine which is not even a film. I think I've heard of. Yeah, it's a faith based movie that's based on a really popular Christian song by van called. Mercy me that is also called. I can only imagine. And that movie made a lot of it made a big splash in like the faith based community last year. And they basically said that no one they they took it to a lot of studios, and no one was willing to go to accept reminds gates all the potential and made a lot of money. So they're actually signed a deal with Lionsgate to create a new brand or label under get label called kingdom and they're going to. They're developing stories with uplifting beasts messages. You know, I feel a little weird about this. Because that also owns nice, and it's it sounds like, you know, these are Christian people that trying to get their message out there. And then you hear the second part of their sales pitch like for you exhibitors, we're going to go out there to the churches around the nation. We're gonna have them by we're going to talk them into getting group and buy people tickets to your movies to come out to your theaters and stuff like that. It feels very there's money motivation here not anyways there were there. Promoting a new movie, which we didn't see anything of ice still believe I saw this on the dock, and I was like is this an x files movie. But no, I guess I still believe is boats. Another Christian singer Jeremy camp he s and k Jay APPA who stars on the show. Riverdale is playing Jeremy camp and Gary Sinise. I guess is playing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is like this guy's won a grant he's been Grammy nominated. I think they said something like a couple dozen number one singles, there's only insane totally off my raider. And they didn't show us any footage. So there's not really much. I talk about other than you know, it's interesting. It's it's worth noting. I think that Lionsgate is getting into the is really embracing these faith-based movies and so much. So they're starting this new label. So you're gonna probably see a lot more of this coming up. I if you watched our video tour of all the posters in standards on the on in the hallways cinema. Con all linking the show note. We saw a couple they based aired seemed like they were faith-based movies that just from the appearance of the it seems like those kind of things are making some good small money. Yeah. Yeah. Amid what I guess people used to call the mid rage that doesn't exist. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about another film that everybody's excited about this. I think. Your most intimate in movie of twenty nine thousand nine. Yes. I'm I love Ryan Johnson. So his new movies called knives out is a murder mystery that is inspired by Agatha Christie novels. He said he's been working on the script for about ten years. He's been a diehard fan of Agatha Christie for you know, since he was a teenager. And he this is his love letter to that style of like who done it, storytelling. I think he said he's been working on this ten year. Yep. Something. Yeah. Saying is that something those reveal? I didn't know that. And you know, they were saying that this is a movie about a family gathering that turns bloody quickly. Yes. And we learned that this is basically around everybody's gathering for their the father's birthday in this big mansion. And by the end of that birthday. He ends up being dead. Right. I think so. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Something deadliest happened. And I think Daniel Craig and Lookie Stanfield play cops who come to sort of investigate the death. And they end up asking we saw like a basically a trailer for this movie and in the trailer. Daniel Craig has a southern accent. Which is interesting for him. It's a little bit of a throwback to Logan lucky. But maybe not quite as harsh in terms of the the sound as that. But yeah, they're cops. They ask if the family can stay. Question them the day after it looks like seems like it. Yeah. And it seems like in all the family members are kind of bickering. He's. Say typical family gathering where you know, you have people that that love each other. But don't get along. And they basically ask everybody to stay. I guess confined to that estate until the investigation is complete. It's very like Hercule Poirot like Agatha Christie style. Classic kind of setup. And Michael, Shannon is one of the characters. He's like furious that they the cops would even suggest that a family member could do something like this. Chris Evans is one of the family members as well. And he seems to really relish in telling all of his family members to each shit like over and over again and the trailer and this whole scene. That's kind of the main part of the trailer is kind of intercut with these montage of other shots that of stuff from the film that is set to live live and let die and. Yes song. And you you definitely the style. You see Ryan signature humor throughout this. And it seems very enjoyable it. It seems. More. You know, I guess brothers womb than anything else. I think of his filmography to me. Yeah. I think that's that's fair. You know, probably similar in scope, it's not like a globe-trotting movie in any way, it seems very confined. And that's where like all of the the pressure boils is like the the confines of the situation. Everything Dana cracking the and Lookie Stanfield just turning up the heat and watching everything sort of spillover. The latter part of the show is just basically them listing off the insane in Sombor cast in showing, you know, two seconds of footage of everybody in. Yeah. Takes thirty four seconds to get through that long list of names. Yeah. I mean, the sets look amazing. There's like I mean, the movie is called knives out. And there Jamie Lee Curtis is sitting in this really like elegantly designed area with like, lots of warm would colors and stuff. And there are these knives that are sort of like encircling her head almost like the the. John wick chapter two poster where all his head is being surrounded by all these guns. It's like that. But with knives on a wall, it's like an artwork. So I wonder if those are those that's just decorative or if that's like a a checkoffs gun sort of scenario where those knives are actually gonna come into play as some point in the story. But yeah, I'm super excited about this. What did you think about it? Like, generally speaking. It looked good. I don't think it's simply not my number one most of the year. I mean, I have vendors which coming out and also Star Wars, which just they it owns my heart. Yeah. But I'm I'm Brian Johnson fan since Bracken know, I'll be there opening day or the press screening and nothing in this, look, bad everything. Look good. So I mean, I have nothing more to contribute other than they look if you like what Ryan Johnson. Does this looks like more of that? Yes. It was interesting. Actually, he didn't Mench. Action at the beginning of the presentation. He said something like before I I wrote it down here. He said something like before I get back to franchising a galaxy far far away which I think is interesting because there's always those rumors that Disney sought during his troje right Star Wars films. But it sounds like he is taking moments to mention that just so people know that it still works. Yes. Okay. We saw a couple of films here at the at the convention. Let's start with wild rose is the film that premiered at the. Toronto international film festival last year last year. And this is now being distributed by remember, I don't have it in front of me. It comes out on June fourteenth fourteenth. Okay. That's all you need to know. It was shot in the UK. And this is. This is about a musician from Glasgow who dreams of becoming a Nashville star. So it's it's a movie about country music, which. I kind of hate country music to we were having this conversation before we saw the movie that neither rest are fans of country music. So I was kind of dreading this even though this had a lot of buzz to festival seeing. And I'll be quite honest with you. I think like forty five minutes, and I was like totally not like I was like this is fine. Like wasn't. It's not your thing. Not my thing in the latter. Half of this movie won me over so hard. And the reason why I liked this movie. For the most part are how that back half of the movie is handled of where the story goes. And I don't wanna ruin this story for anybody else to discover. So I'm not going to get into those kind of things. What did you think? I ended up really really liking it. And I was also dreading the country music aspects of it. But for me, it's sort of country. It's a little bit more country than like. Bradley Cooper's character in a star is born or something, but it's not like full twang country is so I didn't I found itself. Very frightened of what I was going to think about this movie going in. But ended up kind of really liking the music like thinking that it wasn't. It didn't cross the line into being like to twangy for my tastes. So I appreciate that. And then the really the the big thing to talk about here is Jessie Buckley, and she's the lead of past. She plays rose. Who is the yes Scottish character who is obsessed with American country music and thinks that she? You know can make big in Nashville, and the movie is very like an aspirational in. Is it reminded me a little bit of saying street in the way that it's it's about a musician with a dream? And it's it's, you know, full of big big ideas and big hearted kind of goals and all of that stuff. And the thing. That's that's the reason why I went and saw this. I'm sold by these kind of films yet are dreamers wanna leave their small town become something create something. I mean, that's definitely something. That describes me. And I'm sure describes you in some ways. But like the first half smoothie presents her is kind of like this perpetual, fuck up that is irresponsible and oftentimes creating her own problems that come to butter on the ass Reich minutes later. Yeah. And that out I was almost kind of annoyed at the character seeing. Now, you're getting a glimpse into why I didn't really like the Florida project a couple years ago because. I felt the same way you're talking about this protagonist is how I felt about that character. But I didn't I didn't get those vibes. I mean, yes, what you're saying is like objectively true. She certainly like screws up things for herself. But I didn't get the same attitude, and I don't know that same sense that sort of bothered me so much in the Florida project, but that I can see that being a barrier for some people. But I think the movie sort of pulls out of that pretty quick. But by the end, I think. I can't imagine people. Not like. Yeah. Yeah. I it just it's a little formulaic. But it's so good like the explanation. I don't think that ending on that. I don't know. I wanna get into endings. I I just feel like we're ends up. Going is not where you expect it to. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's for sure. I don't think if you polled. If you pulled all those people not one percent of them. Would it guests exactly where ends up which? But the specificity of it is what really makes it stand out. You know, you've seen stories like this before you've seen the skeleton, but the the the details different here. And that's where I think this movie has a chance to shine along with the the really great performances by both Jessie Buckley who sings and does all of the the heavy lifting of the drama and the movie and also Julie Walt. Yeah. Julie Walters who plays her mom, and they have a really interesting dynamic, and and there's there's a lot to to chew on with their relationship. So the next film. I wanted to talk about we saw at the convention in full is from Lionsgate. It's long shot. This the movie that was originally called barsky. We had this argument on our most anticipated list. I think I I think I was the one polling for this film to be on the list. The most Chris like was not having any of it. So with that in mind did deserve to be on your. Fated list. What did you think about it? I think it did. I think this movie first of all this movie directed by Jonathan Levin, who did the whack Ness. And then he's teamed up with Rogan and Goldberg on a bunch of stuff, including fifty fifty was the Christmas movie. God I can't remember the name of that movie for the life of me right now. But it it was with Jessica, Gordon, Levitt and. Name of that movie the night before night before. Yes, of course. Yes, why? And he also did snatch more bodies on a bunch of stuff. I fell in love with the whack nece when I was at Sundance, and I've been following his career since and I like what he's doing here with Brogan in Goldberg Rogan stars in this. Fred far sqi who is kind of you know, I guess. I guess kind of the role that Brogan plays a lot of the times kind of like this like a schlub sort of like a loud mouth kind of guy. I guess. Yeah. And he somehow like he gets fired from quits his job fired quit, something something happens. He's a journalist you rates for like, some independent, Brooklyn publication. And he comes. Crosses paths with Charlotte field who is played by Charlie's Theran. And she is the secretary of. St st. Yeah. And for and she's going to be running for president and one of the things that she lacks is kind of inner comedy range. So they want to hire her someone to help punch out her speech to get hurt some ticket or approval Rating's higher in the humor category. Yes. So they kind of cross paths. They knew each other as kids. She babysat him. They were neighbors in he had a crush on her, and this is a full blown or mid to comedy. And you know, I it is kind of formulaic, I guess in ways. This also stars shea Jackson junior loved in. Goes west. Yes. Few years, go at Sundance, and this movie's hilarious. There's so many funny jokes. I was constantly laughing. If I have any complaint, it's two hours and five minutes long and for a romantic comedy. I feel it gets maybe twenty minutes too long. But it won the audience award at south so yes up by so people are loving it. Yeah. What did you? It's easy to see. Why people love it because it's very funny, and it's like sweet to it's like, the romance element is really believable. Even though, you know, surely thrown it's like one of the most gorgeous people on the world on the face of the planet. And Seth Rogan certainly is not they they know. So how you believe that their relationship actually works? Really well, and they play well off each other it almost like this movie seems to be like almost like a commentary on Charlie's thrones career a little bit. Like, you know, people might not think that she's super funny. So she's starring in this this movie with throat into sort of like increase the public's appreciation of what she can do community. And I think she's really leans in. And shows her comedic chops in this movie. And yeah, I came away really liking it. I think it's a little folder, and like a little, you know, maybe crosses a couple of decency lines your hair, but like you kind of expect that from every sut- Rogan comedy. Well, that's that's also. Yeah. That's one of my problems. I feel like with the Rogan stuff the produce stuff. Is it feels like they always try to cram drugs in something like over the top vulgarity into the stuff? Yeah. And sometimes that works sometimes it doesn't and this movie. I don't think those. Those aspects of it helped the movie much yet the one particularly gross act is like a very pivotal thing late in the movie, and it's like man, this is this is a strange choice for a major studio comedy to hinge on this moment in in such a big way. But. Let me guess there's comedies in the nineties that are littered classic conic. They have the same kind of moment. Yes. But. And those are from people that now one Oscar. This year. So you never know. Okay. The other thing I want to say about this. Sorry, guys. All these guys. Gotta get to defy mill. No, we're we're good. The. I was surprised that the political content of this movie. Not that it takes any look sides or anything like that. It's not like, oh, I mean. Yes, it does. But how much kind of goes into the compromise of a politician in yet will? Yeah. Especially with the media, it definitely satires the political media. Yeah. What did you think about that? As a huge aspect of this film. I think yeah. It seems very much like a movie. Lashing out against the injustices that we've been seeing in the world over the past couple of years. And maybe not in a well. Yeah, it's pretty direct like there. There is an idiot president played by Bob Odenkirk. This was TV star. That is now president. So it is like a very, obviously, there's no way around it and the movie really leans into it. And but I think you know, it works in the context of of the movie, and it's a story about journalism. It's a story about politics, and it's impossible to not really address those things address what we've been dealing with as a society for the past few years, if you're gonna make a movie about those things, I just don't know. Like, I'm saying like, you know, this could use an edit of fifteen twenty minutes. Yeah. I wouldn't even know what you you take out of that. There are a couple of little things I would recommend, but I'm not going to get into this. But. And who knows you know, who the hell am I to say you'll Dover a me during the movie at one point you said that indie circus, and I looked at screen. I was like now, I don't think that's any circus, by the way, it is Andy shirt. Okay. Circus looks unlike indie circus. Yeah. You could I think most people would say the smooth that no Indy circus not know that it's Indy circuit. I thought I caught a hint of him under some heavy crusts prosthetics. So keep an eye out for Andy circus in this film. Yeah. Pretty crazy. But I think both of us would highly recommend. And so yeah, I would recommend it for. Sure. Okay. So that that is all the movie content. We have for this upset, but we did end up going seeing a to see David Copperfield at the MGM. He is doing his shows there the foreseeable future. And I've I've seen it many times over the years. He's. Friendly with me. So I, you know, I'm I'm a fan of his work. He reads site, whatever. But I've, you know, I'm a huge fan of magic. We talked about the some watercolor many many many times. But when we were coming to Vegas your leg. You know? Can we see a show to magic show whatever enough? Lugosi, cups filled. So what was your what is your expected before you say what you thought of the Copperfield show? What is your experience with Copperfield impacts? I just sort of grew up watching like some of his specials on TV in the nineties. That's what I remember is like him as like the guy in the world of magic. He was like the mainstream magician that I knew of the most, and I feel like he was like sort of America's magician like he was he's the most famous, and like, you know, a great looking guy who had like a fantastic stage presence. And and he just remember like being a kid and watching TV and like have him having him like make huge structures disappear or appear something like that. So I was expecting a show like this in Vegas to be on a really massive stage. But I was surprised to see that the venue at the GM grand even something even that like a venue at the GM grand. I it for me conjures up a massive stage in the few drew m- with thousands of seats. It was a relatively small venue. So that was surprising and really nice. Because a lot of what actually happened in the show was him leaving the stage and sort of doing stuff out in the crowd. And it felt a lot more intimate in that way. Yeah. Yeah. No. It's it's very intimate show for what you get. I think I mean most biggest shows are like over one hundred. So I think you're paying for that too. Yeah. It's not on the scale of like, I think if you go to like. Any of the search shows those are more like a Rena sized, right? You know, that's what I was expecting here. But this is something a little bit smaller a little bit more intimate, and the storytelling across the show sort of reflected that too I feel like the the big through line here is about the sort of relationship that that Copperfield had with his father and to me certain moments throughout the show because it's more than just allusions or tricks here, and there, it's it's like a it's all connected by this ongoing story and to me the the relationship between him and his father. I don't even know if it's true or not if it's all made up entirely for the show, but it doesn't matter because he sells it out there on stage, and it got really emotional toward the end reminded me a lot of like field of dreams or something. The end of that movie where Kevin Costner reunites with his dad. It's like this really moving moment. And obviously the the magic was incredible. The, you know at one point helix made a giant car appear out of seemingly nowhere on stage. Unbelievable just sitting there. And I don't know nearly as much about magic as you do. I'm just sort of a fan from the outside perspective. So I'm sure you're looking at this from a little bit more of a technical angle than I am like, you know, I know how some of the stuff works is done the spectacle. The he creates in the the production design, the the the production has a whole like he has like cameraman running around getting you can tell everything's lay down. Like, I don't know it just so perfectly done like the everything. Yeah. I felt like I was in the presence of a legend. And I was like I'm so glad that I was able to see something like this person's. I I would I mean if anybody is ever in the Vegas area and Copperfield has a show, and you have the chance to go. I mean, do whatever it takes because it's like, it's it's unbelievable. The stuff that that is there. I don't know how to say podcast without it sounding lame. Oh, well, it was so cool. But it just what you know. It's my job was on the floor, and it's hard to like review a magic show because you don't want to reveal you don't want to talk about what you necessarily saw magic. I think is a medium relies so much on surprise. Yeah. And, but if I told you the top three biggest things that happened in the show, you probably wouldn't believe me because they sound ridiculous. And it sounds too big to happen. Like the small theater there. There's some really holy shit. Yeah. Like moment during during the show that are just like I felt like a kid like it was it immediately takes you back to a place where you are coming at it from this place of innocence like I am being wild. Because the rules of the world is I know it are no longer apply in this scenario. And this man is the one who's manipulating that. In front of my vary is to make it that way. It's like he's. To credible. One of the things I liked about watching Copperfield as a kid is he seems so heavily influenced. Magic is kind of insular and magicians kind of just steal everybody. Each other's tracks. Do variations on stuff and outfield didn't seem to be as inspired by other magicians, but inspired by cinema and early stuff. He did like, you know, he did this thing where he was trapped in hit escape before like a laser beam hit him, and it was like so clearly designed to relate the bond every special would have things that were so cinematic, and even like, you know, he escaped from this building that was going to get in imploded and the whole thing is presented in this one single steady Cam shot that I think was shot by the same guy that did the study Cam shots in skirted. The score says he moved like he's so heavily inspired by that in this show. The last third of the show presented this. Almost like a magical fantasy of a story that is kind of like inspired by Spielberg's e t out say, yeah, not to give too much away. And it's. Unlike any magic show I've seen or probably will see, and I think that's what's cool about it to me. Yeah. And he's like incorporates like actual movie stuff into the set not only in the algae of it. But there's like home movies, you know, like that. And there's like a film projector and stuff like that. So it's it's very like tactile in that way too. Yeah. And another cool thing is. Finds ways to innovate like. The stuff happens on your body. There's some interactive stuff that happens on you happens on your phone. It's not just happening up on stage even just happening in the audience. I it's like very per feels personal. And I'm like every time the thing I was most blown away was every time. I would think that I kind of figured out maybe how he could have done something like that that that stuff that stuff with the phone or the stuff on your body. Like you're talking about. He would then do something else that completely blew my hypothesis out of the water, like disproved, it instantly. So it's like he's constantly taking things one step farther and shutting down any theories that you have and just like forcing you back into this place of innocence. Again, this place of like, I am going to make you watch this and not know how this is done. And and it's it's incredibly such a great showman. So it's just I was I was blown away the whole time. The other thing that amazes me about. The him is he's. He's later in his career. He's a billionaire. He's like one of the richest magician oil like ever he owned a set of islands in the Bahamas. He could retire. Now have retired twenty years ago. Yeah. Fine for the could've retired thirty years ago. But he like in the last five years a lot of what you saw in that show was stuff that he's created in the last five years in these uncut of this creative kick of like, creating these this whole new show in not only that is he pushing his creche pushing his creativity forward, but he you know, the night we saw muse performing to two shows at night on weekends. I think he does three or four I saw him once on like thanksgiving. And I think he did four shows that night he doesn't meet and greet off after he shows he performed for that like hour and a half two hours than just the mean Greek for half an hour at any goes right back up to the and this is a guy that's like a billionaire, and he doesn't need to be running around on the stage. Giving you his all like it. It's really inspiring to see that. He still cares. Certainly. So anyways, I you could see a show at the MGM. And he also I think performs like five or six weeks in a row, and then takes week off, which is also say. Yeah. I I don't get. I that that eyelid must cost a lot of. It's insane. Okay. Anyways that percent of today's episode. And I think the end of all of our some cinema. Con coverage is all right. We have anything else left. I think I think that's it from Senator mccown, right? And I think I think that is it, you know. You know, in that sense. Let's recap here. What did you think of cinema? Go after your whole experience was what you thought it was going to be. It was a lot more intense than I thought it was going to be there's so much footage shown from all these different studios. And there's a lot going on here. You know, I it's very theater based as as a lot. It's a lot of actors and filmmakers coming on stage. And being like, we love the cinematic the full experience this movie specifically to go in your theaters, it's very like sort of pandering. But but I feel like that's the purpose of this thing. It was it was a trip, man. Like, you know, this is my first time in Vegas, unlike seven or so years and other we saw we saw. The walk across the street. But yeah, I think it was it was certainly interesting to to sort of be on the theater side and see what they're seeing and and sort of. Yeah. It's it's always interesting to get a new perspective, you know, and having I think that will enhance the way that I look at at Hollywood in general, and I feel like anybody who's been following our coverage can sort of take those same lessons, and and sort of look at thanks to that same lens that they want to well hope everybody listening out there has gotten something from our coverage because getting peak at the next year plus movies is not an easy feat to not only, you know, watch all these presentations, but the of live recap them. Now, I'm not saying that we're doing like hard work or any big on the last film the staff who was writing tons of stuff on the site. So we're sending them are misspelled and the notes that currently taken. Yeah. And they were turning into content that people, you know, hundreds of thousands if not millions of. People read of the site. So the they they are the true heroes cinema. Conde are true heroes. Okay. So that brings us to the end of the podcast. You can read all our cinema. Con coverage on slash dot com. You can find my work, you can find me at slash on all social media. You can find you wear on Twitter and Instagram. At Ben pairs in my writing, of course is that slash on dot com. This podcast daily is published every weekday and sometimes as was this week multiple times a day on slash dot com and your favorite podcast apps. Please feel free to send it to your feedback. Questions. Comments to turn to Peter as lashawn dot com, and please on overture I tunes peach give us a view. Tell your friends spread the word, and we will see you.

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The Baldies 2020 - Deliberations 5 | Best Female Actor, Best Commission

Bald Movies

2:06:53 hr | 6 months ago

The Baldies 2020 - Deliberations 5 | Best Female Actor, Best Commission

"Hey everybody welcome back to more bald. Move bali's body award move. Awards valdis deliberations said every variation possible This is You know this is us showing the work for our fake award. Show the bald move awards. we do not intend this to to be something that people necessarily watch and listen to But it's something we have to do. The produced a show so why not film it and make it for content for people. But yeah if you're looking for the actual bodies award there should be attached to whatever media. You're watching some show notes or some youtube video description that will have the link to the official bodies awards ceremony for twenty twenty. That's the thing that you wanna watch if if you wanna see. He won and our brief arguments rat and also what the community thought. Because we're not going to be getting into that today as well. What are we deliberating about today. Joe haven't come categories up on the docket First off is best female actor and then we'll follow that up with commissions and just rear radiate without reiterating. Last time i went on a kind of Discussion of you know the whole male female categories and how they might be untenable in the near future. But yeah if you wanna if you wanna hear that full thing go. Check out the deliberations for best male actor. Okay d- okay. What's the let's let's let's bring on the ladies and debate about. Give me one second us sort through them on the. Let's rank them by their their the value that they brought to us. We've already done that. Once in the history of all move i have zero interest in doing it again. okay cool here. We go best female. Go ahead and run down the nominees in no particular order just As as we considered the show here we go journey. Small as leticia lettie lewis from lovecraft country. One me would me. Asako privy baptiste Lovecraft country come. I can't with the names. Ludivine levine is at a name. sag sand yeary san. Yeah i would ever to look. These phonetically spelled them. Because i just don't have a fucking clue. I like you just courageously wading in here. Why not love. Vine sag knee air as esther the new pope Cecile the frong As so the sesame defraying see as sophia and hope mizuno as lilly chan. From dave's i cash as storm front from the boy season to jessie buckley as oriental mayflower from fargo season four kelsey as spla as bill twenty caps from pharmacies and. Four karen. aldridge's zell mayor roulette pharmacies and four every woods as dolores westworld season. Three newton has made westworld season. Three test thompson is charlotte westworld season three when odor writer as evelyn finkel plot against america zoe kazan elizabeth levin as elizabeth america. Natasha tasha dimitrio as najah from what we do in the shadows hanno wanting ham as rebecca from ted lasso dominate differ as naomi gotta from the expansive five carragee as drummer from these fantasies and five and l. fanning catherine from a little show called the great as the titular catherine the great before the great. I think almost so some notable. Do you wanna talk about like some. Maybe near misses. Because i can think of a few l. such as Let's see Like shoora blue as christian navacerrada. I think did some pretty good work in the season You know e- emoting two loss of the worry for family. The loss of her beloved origin Her like you know gathering like after she thought she could just fall the pieces gathering her pieces together so she can serve the the earth one more time But but she is a much more marginal character this season and she's been in previous so it's one of those things where she still doing great work and she has mc great scenes but not nearly what the the other ladies were doing on the show. I'm trying to think there's anything else that we could have possibly missed Yeah is there anything that kind of like that. Because i know just like we did for the best male actor. There's a couple people we preemptively like they're just two bit because we don't have supporting characters But none are springing the mind. That's the one i can think of. Yeah i'm sure there are somewhere leaving off this list. If i could go back to the drama category but i know i don't want to show that yet and just kind of look through the shows and make sure we're not missing any but i we're good. I think all these performances are ones. We need to talk about ons for consideration here Do we want to try and do a to the top pass on this list. Yeah yeah let's do that. Attorney jerry small. It deserves to be where she is currently to the top secret to the top. How about one may one beef. I wish I think here now. Let's let's find out. Let's find out together. pro- -nounce won- me Boo already can't even spell at one a masako. I think he got you. Got the masaki Let's see here in sites can get it done one. Masako all right okay Is she i get. I think you can make an argument that she's actually better than journey small. You can certainly make that argument. And i don't know that i would necessarily disagree. Journey great journeys great in that And arguably i would say with maybe the exception of michael k williams it would. It would be a contest between these three for the best performance in that. Show like michael. Kay williamson williams i out of omar michael jalen williams journey and one me. Those three are kind of the beasts of this. Show just destroying the screen. In my opinion. I kind of want to give it the one me but like some of them might be special effects because holy hell her bursting out of the skin effect. Every single time was fighting a lot to deal with. Yeah i really love her whole department store our attorney yeah beat the becoming a white woman and going and getting a job at this department store at the store. She wished she could work at as a black woman and couldn't and the the also they examination relative privilege because she's sleeping with the white man who's actually a white woman because you know. That's the apex. Apex creature in america. Occurred or america's the white nude reigning champs still. I it's really great stuff. And also i really liked the personal her journey because like you know Laddy is kind of like the hero of the story. But she i think does her sister kind of dirty and there's a lot of genuine pain that they were able to manufacturer between those two. Yeah something about it in harrison's and it being kept from one of the sisters by the other and it was right right. Yeah yeah for reasons that you think are malicious. Maybe are not as militias. Is the other thing trying to like go. Back like dave resolve that and like Levies favor or was she just always kind of portrayed as a little bit sorry because ladies like rodley more like progressive whereas like ruby was always broadly more. Like i'm just gonna do my best and excel in in this game. That like you know So you kind of more sympathetic To the more progressive like now this system needs to be torn. We need to fight it but like also kind of bullshit to like one sister spent others inheritance and not in was dishonest. About is the way. I recall and it wasn't for bad reasons necessarily but it was the way it was done right. Yeah i found a lot of their. Their interactions really really good. And how do you take away from either of them. Because they're both part of the scenes. I probably still give it to journey. Because she was the star star of the show co star of the show and also like yes she had some. No slouch moments to with I remember particularly When she joined with all the ghosts of the people that this does mad scientist character. Whatever had a had had butchered and to dispel a current evil. Like that stuff is really powerful. Worked really well her going In in the astral plane. Kind of like to I i say. I'm really having a hard time thinking about all these scenes and how they connected but she i feel like i don't know i'm starting talking myself back into one me. Some really alleging strange material to right. Yeah that's what i'm saying like stuff. That was really challenging. And i'm like. I don't even know what the fuck thing was. A lot of round michael k williams character because it wasn't cutting dry black and white pardon the expression Yeah maybe a lot of his really hard like sexual and racial dynamics all mixed into one. It's like dangerous material like volatile material. Yeah i would say maybe barely edges our journey in this even though i have a minor crush on journey. She's fantastic but one. We had some really difficult stuff to do and did it outstanding. Well yeah yeah. Alright i that's already into the i i think. Oh you're going to put a number okay. All right fine. I was having a hard time just to the top in. Yeah levine. sag ni air hard ours on that talion name speaking challenging work. You saw the stuff. She was running like a sex therapist for people who had severe disabilities. Why how like again. This is highwire. Act shit look ladies were doing you know. Oh yeah oh yeah i Yeah i think it's telling that the women they all the stuff is like compared this anything like even like anthony starts. You played super the superman bright. Like your address the most powerful thing the year. Yeah like this part of the thing that makes drama work is like these women are not the most powerful there arguably ponds of the systems that they're fighting against trying to find little advantages. And when they you know like like esters arc in this is like trying to find joy and spirituality in very morally grey things. She's also getting paid a lot to do and kind of getting dove by the very church that she's trying because the guy that she's staying with an church that's exactly what it is It's fucking gross and helped her get to the moral place where she can do these things. Then yeah fox or metaphorically and i think actually yap minton's up being physical to may. Yeah the women on this list are doing for the most part. Much more difficult Much sticky ear stuff then the guy. Yeah it's not like it's it's weird Not weird that like It says yeah more and more difficult work. There are some things with anthony stars character of homeland or like this weird Mother complex he has and the d'appel gang or stuff band and that kind of stuff is approaching those levels but man the the materials more challenging on the female side for sure and we have sesame the frontier sophia who is a bigger part of the season changes the gist extremely beautiful professional woman. Who's like the vatican spokesperson. Okay yeah that like all the marketing director. Essentially yeah like every male in the show kind of like lawson respects and that's a very difficult role and lot of psycho sexual shit going on with her husband. Oh yeah this season are their glory holes at one point. There's a there's a the there's a private a private glory hole session Is crazy shows real man. It's it's it's it's a great watch. it's a great watch and honestly i loved the podcast. We did on it. It's a damn shame that we were forced by schedule to abandon that. I abandoned Also better call saul. But i'm glad we got to cover both and give one hundred hundred ten percent both podcasts. Yeah i don't i. Because i thought i liked esther burn. I'm sorry i like sophia more And she was a bigger part of the show but like holy hell kind of thing. She's kind of thing she's better than her character is better and bigger than esters. In fact i asked. Her was almost not even at thing until the second half of the season. Yeah yeah no. I just yeah i think yeah. That's what i do. I put her three right. Now we're just two topping. God damn it. I mean with sure let. Let's go 'cause like yeah okay my garage. Fuck it to the top to the top with with lilly chan. Put up to top a my gosh. I cannot do this arguing at each level. Okay cash. I live this role performance. She's berry winning. I've had. I've seen her in almost nothing before. Except for like she's got a minor part of wolf of wall street right. I think this challenging material because she has to be a truly reprehensible character but you also have to kinda like her on i blind. Do you have to be rooting supporter. So the win the turn comes. It affects you yeah. She's great however. I want to suggest that there. Nothing she does. That's even close to a laser. My tits is not gonna beat anything. That's above this guy. Because he's invulnerable like mostly like most of the other four women were doing laser met with real stakes. Doubt sure in this game. They're playing so yeah. I think she's hitting our limit here so she's floats floats agree. Jessie buckley oriented. I don't think she's she's not going to stay here long to the top for sure okay. It's a it's a fantastic trail of a very odd character. Yeah and this this. This is yeah i almost feel like man. We are original order. Might free Pretty close to be in the original Here we go kelsey s attlee as swannee cab. I don't really brilliant. Had a lot of stained at scenes a bit character and huge zomba cast that kind of dropped off the face of the earth after the first half of the season. So i think she's a floater. Her air probably both floaters things. They'll mayor is a little bit will float a little higher because she had a little bit more to do. I like better but really maybe yeah. Yeah heard herself about She gave better monologues for sure. There's a lot of scenes where she's talking with rita about. You know being an outlaw and like here's the thing though like any kind of have those scenes though it's also. There's a lot of physical stuff that karen alderidge did like i really. This is linda's rent-free in my mind. Is that when she made eye contact timothy font and the train station. She does channel. Hey there's something like these wild big decisions that always rang true whereas like i felt like swannee might have been played. You know like Kelsey was just playing that character where karen became that character and he's also like in the these also were. I think these roles are written for specific actors in mind. And i do not know why it it it. It happened that they were not able to To to play the characters but like these guys are like could easily be in the poor man's version of these roles and they didn't so I i am hanging over the top though with all this other stuff. But like i said i think these roles we're supposed to be amber mid under in Zoa do a deuba and people who were very on amber mid thunder and do the kind of mold. But like i yeah. I instantly forgot that as the season the war on or like essentially from the first the character moment. So i i put in a little bit over kelsey but i don't think any of them go to the top. Yeah probably not Let's talk about westworld. Westworld suffers from being westworld. I think all these ladies are going to get tessa thompson. Okay here about this toxin clearly. The best of the three tan detaining. Newton had to do a lot of cool stunts. And i don't think she had it in her and evan rachel wood does but also like some of her. Big stunts were half of the season. Where the stunt coordinator just wasn't director does didn't give a shit call in sick. Yeah and this isn't this is a slick science fiction action show with a lot of hard core philosophy with great actors and sometimes material doesn't line up but i think you know about her going above fargo. That's sound i. Maybe even up above storm front. 'cause it's it's hard like like she was what did what did she end up. Being a shard of the evan. Rachel wood's laura's core fragment or something like that then had like this. I'd not necessarily crisis of conscience but like this versions from. Yeah yeah personality she person. I thought that's that's a pretty hard thing to do. And i thought she killing it and she had a lot of like power fantasy stuff against men in black right. She had committed one point. That was pretty cool. Took over it conducted a hostile takeover. Some really good scene. Also like i bought like her big break at seen I thought they did like Someone actually paid attention to staging. That's what the big like you know. Metal security robot ready to rumble like housing for breaking facility. And like they did they really thought about like you know like you've got this kind of terminator character to slowly stocking and that's cool but if she's taking bullets all the time and getting for face blasted apart. It's less cool so they always like very thoughtfully hatter methodically walking and she's just one step ahead of the security team so she's plausibly missing all these hail of bullets and can cool deliver one or two back and it's honestly that's that's half of action as his blocking staging get I noticed like joe. So i watched john wick just a couple days ago and i noticed something they do. The were the. The action is really always tight on john's wick. But the camera matt. John's lists crotch johns hopkins. But they always do thing where it's like they're tight. They're just enough in the frame for him and his primary antagonists when he's doing his big fights and the camera john like jump pulls its focus to the like if they're like if he cites is on the right then they smash focused to the to the left side just as this guy come. So don't have to worry about staging they can essentially do like if you shot this wide. You would just be dude. Standing in line to fight john wick right. But they're able to kinda cheat the keep your like. It's they don't do a known context to know that this by look really stupid. Yeah i feel like it's a departure. From the first. John whitworth they did mostly bigger longer takes and and they do some of that in john three but they've run out of imagination and they're just trying to keep the fights and yeah that's the only good one sure you but there's an art to that art to the blocking in staging so you can make someone look amazing without the other opposition. Just looking stupid and westworld always struggled with that. Tessa thompson was beneficiary of director. Who kinda got that. Yeah and if no other reason that's why she's better than the other three performances in the world. Yes oh and rachel gis would know woods just yet. Didn't have that benefit her. She's gone pretty far from the top though we're supposed to be like yeah Qadam it says. I don't think either they were going to the top Renault winona ryder as everyone calls from Both of these ladies did a top next to and zoe. Kazan is kasim and say as elizabeth levin. Yeah hoops both top. I haven't seen metro so well. I saw the first episode. How about an tasha demitrio as najah me we do in the shadows to. It's a comedy role. But i think she got top. Yeah she's arguably the best part of that show full of very funny people hanno here because like this is another hobby role but i don't think she makes elite level. She does a very tough. I think she does something tough where she is. Essentially a stunningly beautiful lack late forties early fifties like wealthy woman. And you don't take her seriously at all. You think she's an idiot. If liberty gibb and then she becomes the primary antagonist of the show and then ted lasso turns her good just a sheer force of his goodness and will and it never is like none of these are like i. Might they sound so fucking stupid and honestly. I fought liking the show. I've talked about this. I thought liking this show so hard but like it eventually won me over. And she's a big reason. Why because that's a wild swing character and a never felt false. It always felt almost like dammit. Rebecca y rather than you fuck in st like. It's i. I don't think the top but she did really good work. Is you really good work. She's a lot of lhasa works. Now that's why. I'm saying it's not okay for like sent to the top and elite comedy performance. This is not elite comedy performance. So it's it's not going to do well okay. The top doniger carragee tipper with as naomi Do they go as a pair temporarily. at least it seems unfair to floater. But to the top probably a little bit. But we're we're yeah. I think they could stop. And then finally elle fanning as catherine the great. I think isn't a boy. This is a drama. And it's it's funny but she's kind of like a straight person. She carries a show harder than he and a wanting him to the top to the top. And then let's get to the like. Is this better than this. Okay dominic painting. I i would say yes. Yep dempsey's better super bad. Dominic has always been better actors on the expanse and boy. She puts on a clinic. Scam the only wild runaway success is i. I have a few problems with the situation. The her arc itself right But yet nothing. None of the problems are with our performance. Care g as trimmer tonight. Dramatic fanning but. She's not going to be better than dominik agreed. A lot of people are saying this is like a pretty one dimensional performance like. She's just a feminine avatar of rage and Like impotent rage for all this anger and power but no real plausible outlet for it. That doesn't get hurt. Everyone else killed. Which i actually like actually like a high head character who actually has a little bit of a arabia. S to put on it. Yeah and other things. I kind of feel like her best work might be in episodes. We have not yet. We are yet to see If i think going where it's where it's going so right now. Like she's just i dunno. It's the physicality performance hookah. She plays this like bone white lady with her izhak gets tattooed jet black so she just looks like a skull she looks like a death said assassin or something and an all jet black jet suit. She's a space. Pirate is an amazingly fun. Roll tar drinking hard. Fuck in you know Hard fighting but she. Yeah she's she's not as good as dominant trip dipper. Have as much to do. Yeah also yeah the disparities like this is a anthony star thing. The disparity between her actual public prasada. And what she's playing. This character is like crazy. She's as sweet canadian lady. All you need is to see a shot of her with her hair down smile on her face and you can tell. She is not community drummer right. Yes she could honestly. Who's the engineer and firefly Celtics kaley kaley from firefly just as plausible a sure. As i don't i don't think the real kelly from firefly could be drummer. No fucking way I have. I've seen her some sifi stuff and there's nothing in her repertoire. That makes me think that she could be this debts at assassin space. Buyer it okay So another person who makes the show and a lot of ways and the tasha dimitrios nausea. What we do in the. This isn't a leak comedic performance. Which means she's better than elevating issue better than carrot. You okay yeah. I'm kind of wanting to stick her number to temporarily insane can have that argument. Name might not be an argument. That sounds like so. There's there's daylight there's daylight between Tipper and key for sure writer. Who i loved in david simon's other show mckerrow god. She didn't feel operatic in this And like the chemistry between her and zoe kazan. His sister-in-law is amazing darussalam as brutal and emotional showdown between family members as is with with the highest stakes. I've ever seen in the late goings of this show. Which i i don't want to spoil you on it but That's what i'm saying like these guys. Like i think zoe's better than winona and known as damn good hut Because she always gets to do. I felt like of all the characters i was most like. Zoe is mostly like Beth levin here like every single point. I thought she was the voice of reason and if everyone had listened in her family listen to her the levins would would be a a much better played on the candidate before they shut down the border. And you know th they would have been okay. Same here Let me let me. Just let me just float this. And we'll talk about here in a bit if they're damn good and their dramatic roles. I'm just sticking dramatic performances. Which i have to beat elite comedic performances. Okay put them there for jessie. Buckley is oriented mayflower fargo season for drama performance or comedy. Because i think it's more comedy than drama and it's better now ellie fanning. It's better than carragee like again. The physicality of she begins character. And i just seen her month before in. I'm thinking of ending things which is such a different look from her. Like it's everything like muted in the pallets done and emote everything is like you know So far removed whereas this oriented mayflower is just around larger than life with the one repertoire. One person rep in the fargo accent. The whole season true and she manages to be menacing inside this facade of just utter on serious nece like you. He looked at her and you would not take her seriously she. I mean she. She's dressed ninety percent of the time in this like nineteen what. Forty s nurse outfit. Yeah way throwback or nurse outfit but then like when she speaks. She's got that accent when she walks. She's like half waddling half power walking. It's like in the bedroom. She carries herself like a professional dominatrix. Which is another. But but the thing is is that she's the type of villain who's really strong against the week right. She's like her the people she torments are sick. People on death's door and ab Senator young a young black woman. Well yeah disadvantaged people as well who. She can't also who she gets gets the better. I mean the gets better. Going to say ethel rita absolutely wins that conflict. Maybe with some supernatural assist. but still. yeah it's a great performance. I think it's better. it's better it's better than Carragee arguably more complex. What tasha's dimitrios doing. There's because it's yeah she smacks right right like she smacks right against the wall. That is known a writer. Here what do you think. Does she get she give above. Houston both of these. Have you should get above nadje just on lever there for now and we'll come back to it if we need to because who knows he's gonna make the top ten at this point as lilly chan from devs. So this is the star of deb's if you don't if you haven't seen it if you do this is okay. Biggest gas lighting of the year. I think this is this character. If we had a category this cares are might win. Okay better than l. Better than care. Better than jessie buckley. Better than a better than i don't know about ona. I'm thinking between the the the seven sisters here. I was asked her in laws and maybe she goes right there. I mean do you think she's better than Do you think this is rules. Better than naomi gotta. Because i think there's an argument made the tone of that show gives it like an era of an era of quality than maybe. It shouldn't like i'm think the tone of that show and it's like okay. They're both sides five but honestly one is taking one is more grounded. Deb's is tomorrow right now. Certainly three hundred years in the future. Yeah and it gives like lilly chan as a character. More recognizable motivations and pathos unlike louis annoyance as a great job portraying that i'm trying to side like which which is doing a better job with the material they're given though but they also play like a cool analytical character does not prone delight giving themselves a history onyx in leg in open. Not that that you know. She's challenge there. Yeah she's not moved there. You know and places where she gets overwhelmed but like this is one of those roles where it's a lot more reserved. It's not like an ethan. Hawke screaming you know about freeing there. Are those breaks down right. The senior to yes. He's asked to give Seriously emotional performance of most of the time. Yeah she is cooler more even and i they they really sold. There is like a double triple twisty kind of lake playing the audience and the characters that i thought. They pulled flawlessly on death. Refresh my memory been a while. Spend money she had to go back to the deaths facility and sell herself as having a mental brains muslim ledge adds up on the ledge and all of that lake. You what you'd like. I i even thought that there was misdirection. But it's like mister robot level and like it was actually triple mr action. I thought that was a great scene. But that's a lot of writing honestly I mean a lot of yeah performances are supported by outstanding writing but cine trivet. I'm kind of fine with it being there. I think you could make an argument because again that's the thing about these Simon joints is there such an insufferable. That like it's it's whereas to deb's like main castle eight people like main cast of like what two or three and like expanded cast like seven or eight yet. It's it's a lot lot tighter a show. But i think that's fine for now. Okay i mean. Obviously i haven't seen play america so i'm gonna take your word on that and we'll move onto one me. Masako for lovecraft. Sorry ruby bac teast as lovecraft country. Man i have a hard time. Not just like she's in the top. Like four and discussion number one with all of these others i think her journey both are to the top And then you want are you. Do you really think. As i don't know how in the tank you are for dominic. I'm pretty zang for naomi. Dominic tippers new indiana and she does like men like high stakes emotional work year. Yeah it's just not as complex as the stuff gets the material that holds her back here. I think 'cause. I believe she could pull it off if she had slightly more complex material but like stuff that they're doing in lovecraft country is just so and it's all out there in terms of the the extreme situations allow you to explore like real dynamics in a way that i feel is harder to do than if you just tell him straight up started doesn't involve like blood magic and body swapping it's like hauling great ones if you go to the pier and you know you think oh. My my spouse here has like a really big forehead and you've always like kinda thought maybe. She has a slightly big forehead. But you go up to the character artist and and the character that they produce of you is just a a massive for head. it's like ninety percent forehead. And you go. Oh yeah actually. No now. I totally see. That's what they're doing. That's the equivalent of what they're doing with the racial issues show. Because they're taking them and they're they're just blowing them off the charts and it's up to eleven on everything but somehow that provides a lot of clarity into the issue and you can start to see where maybe if it was subtler mimi as a white person me as a man. A lot of people wouldn't get what they were putting down i. I think they're easily. The i i think the but all that work is better than the stuff on expanse so but it's also designed to be that way. Yeah yeah like. I said donna tipper. I'm not taking anything away from her. It's the material is not quite complex and said what they're doing. I think what they're doing in terms of like war and relations between nation states and terrorism On the expanses is very similar to what they're trying to do with like race relations in america with lovecraft. Country is just like yeah. The material is turned up to eleven whereas expands tries to keep it grounded on all times And it has advantages and disadvantages. Okay where we at now. Elle's fanning is catherine the great. I think we've already has decided she's not as good i think she's she's there she's there. Oh are we year. Now that we're yeah we've gone through this list like nine times again. This is our is our first time through with the actual toothcomb. Okay hey jimmy ron here to tell you how to plus your experience this week. All club and patriotic patrons have a new episode of our premium. Podcast off the clock. This week we'll be discussing. The last few episodes of wanda vision and iran give an update on his soprano saga three seasons in early review. Fuck joy pants this week. On scifi sunday every sunday at eight pm on twitch dot tv slash bald move we'll be watching one classic episode of star trek the next generation and then a feature linked sci fi film. This week is the season three episode. Menasheh troy counselor twitter. Perpetually horny mom or kidnapped by the fringy it goes about how you'd expect and then grab your popcorn because we watching the classic sci fi horror film with the twist night chevrons signs twitched slash bald. Move at eight pm eastern to catch all the fun finally. Don't forget lunch with jimmy. Iran the flagship bald move premium podcast which launch off last week to do that whole you know twenty four hour. Marathon deal this week. We'll be back refreshed relaxed ready for lunchtime. 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'cause like honestly the last episode is not gonna change your mind about any of the these two women. Which do you think is better. I felt like god. So i don't remember as much of his sofia's stuff and maybe it's because it peters out at some point but what what ends up happening because i remember there's this power dynamic between her and her husband and he ends up taking him down like in like conspiracy pedophile right. I don't remember the resolution of of that as regards her character. I think it if i recall correctly. Cost her her at the attic. And the do what's right but she does and like we leave her. Unlike a celebratory. Like i'm a free person note Same so cut kinda. I don't know i- esther she seems to find her vide- dinner linney psychically murder somebody or no she did. She cited yeah murder. Someone gashes lashing said she. She strangles like the madama. The situation Oh yeah but then come back to life like that person. Miraculously comes back to life. So she's she did okay. I think yeah. There's a scene on like a balcony or something you know she becomes a that's right. She becomes a terrorist with the the the random. Yeah the we interviewed. God remember the show. Well enough it is. Your that was that was allowed. That was what you're missing in the finale. You're i think you're miss literally. Is i think we covered this year. But yeah no. She became she. She went off got so jaded from experiences with the church. Now this pimping business. She went to go join the The the the red headed cultist. Okay the red hooded cultists down with pope and yeah I i like sofia's arc a little bit better. Okay because i also think that like a nine. I got this impression talking with the red headed. cultist lady that there was more that that they were going to try to build up to and they just ran out of time and narrative stuff so like i think i think i preferred the sofia today after so i put her above it now. Both of these. I think need to go way up again as a unit for a minute. Like you don't have to actually move like better than l. better than care. Better than jesse. Better than najah. Better than winona badder than lilly chan from devs for sure. I would almost take in four. Yeah would i really would. And maybe put dominic in inbetween sofia ester and whether these are performances are better than one me and journey is probably how you relate to material deregulate stronger to material that explores lag fucked up sexual dynamics or do you relate more to to material that had the portrays more fucked up racial dynamics. Wh- the both have or it doesn't ignore the sexual dynamics whereas like the new pope stuff doesn't really touch on race. No it's about the it's about a little bit of cultural versus christianity and stuff like that. But it's this race doesn't much come up to this In the new pope world feel pretty good about where they're sitting now. Yeah i think you're right. I think you're right. I should think honestly is gonna cut around up this list. Aia cashes as the storm front has thus storm front from the boys season two front. Yeah i mean if you wanna play it out like i think she can certainly get no higher than Jessie buckley no higher than above jessie Or no higher than the low no higher than below so she can't crack top tune. Yeah i think. I'm with you so let's just leave leave her. I don't think this is going to make the top ten. Yeah i'm also starting to think that like that's it that's like e go down and like again top ten or caring about yeah really top. Five is is really the only nominees. They're going to have right right. Man is always going that we that that it's to show its three shows that dominate this. I don't think so. I believe you know it's you can have more than one great actor in a show and if that show is the best some of the stuff on those actors or some of the best on tv. They deserve it whether they're in the same show not. Yeah and that's the thing is also these lovecraft countries like middle of the year. So like i think if i went back and rewatch the new pope and Lovecraft country. I would even be firmer in my position these Because this is a guy like me recollecting like how did i feel six months ago or ten months ago or twelve months ago in the case of And like these are the things that shine you know it. It also doesn't hurt that like those are also the things that we're kind of like pre covid you know like we kind of it does feel like this is all shit to happen. In the first of the year and the expanse i was completed before the which would they got finished filming. But didn't have a whole bunch of post-election work lovecraft little if graph was later in the air right. That was during lockdown. Yeah was saying like lovecraft country. Wasn't that july premiere august. Okay okay okay. I thought the i thought this was like late spring early summer. Yeah okay hunting of fuck. All that commentary i just did i feel like i like this list. A little sad to snow him as lilly chan indebted. And make it. Because i think it's a great performance. But don't who i would bump. Oh in getting the top. Will we ask the tabs. Pretty pretty tough. To crack a yeah. It does come down to the shows they were in because it shows challenge these actors and the actors lived up to the challenge. Yeah and it's our. It's our subjective opinion. You know people say to. They're filling out surveys as we as we are talking calendar move moves neue up one spot and give her an honorable mention. I don't know. Did i mean i haven't seen the plot against america so obviously i'm biased. But yeah i was actually thinking of maybe pudding. Zoe kazaa arguing for zoe. To be the number five spot. But like i just i don't i don't know i don't think i have good reasons for it just more. Hey wouldn't it be nice to get another show in there right. Yeah the thing is. I don't know the plot against america also is a cautionary tale that is going to be is assuming that america gets you know becomes a kinder gentler place in the next four to ten years is going to become something. That's less let it's kind of like you know what was the fucking wolverine movie Red dawn that's that movie opens with. North korean paratroopers landing in high school in colorado. That shit gets is gets. Krieger and krieger as we as we head down like soviet union doesn't even exist anymore gap like that's just a silly thing and like not that the plot against mary would ever get to that but like i don't know i can also see that like this becomes a very of its moment kind of time whereas gal left brow be struggling. We're going to be. I have a prediction. We'll be struggling with this shit that they're talking about lovecraft and even yeah new pope for decades to come. That's all of this would be outdated very soon. But yeah i don't like i don't lie on it. Corruption of institutions systematic enshrinement of disparities in terms of sex and gender and race yet. Those things are sticky wickets that are going to be around a while. And then as a little fascism in the west who knows maybe we can evolve into least the backdrop of the expanse. Can we get to space. Can eel on start. The martian colonies get is can he. Kenny least install a neon cowboy bar. Yeah yeah can we get We i do take it as a matter of faith that everyone everyone needs to be padre. Hell yeah that's that's that's a gap we have in our life. You know we don't we. Don't do the degradation of our communities and our neighborhoods and this is not a lot of compadres out there and we need. We need compadres. So that's something for the video people as twelve people watching video rundown the top five here yes and will call this a category wait. Are we going okay. Here's the thing number one and two. We're going to give this to one me masako. man. I don't know that we've gone through the top five enough. We've got a good top five year okay. i'm with you. i don't want to prematurely in this. I my gut says ruby has even more complex because not only is she dealing with the racism stuff but she's dealing with these sexual dynamics the complicate the matter even more in the way that she portrays that stuff in some like body horror scenes and like i it just spans. Everything like the whole gamut is run here by one me. I don't know. I feel like it's a harder thing to do and she did it really really well. Yeah that's there's a lot of good stuff in there I dunno like journey had like a pretty good beyonce's hold up moment there in the midseason with the baseball bat and cars and shit but like yeah like pop out some to some person skin While she's banging that person who is a guy in she finds out as a woman. And i forgot about this skin bursting. Sexiness not dude. It's ads show goes places with ruby. You if you missed out a lovecraft country new pope those are two shows that will challenge you and that's good anything to challenges people and tries a you know like like a question about how you feel about things is Is is good in my mind. So yeah i guess i'm fine. I thought we never really revisited. The one levers adjourn anything. But you're right. We didn't but i that's how i would prefer them. Yeah i think. I think you're right. Okay sorry by dive. I stopped for nothing. No problem all right the count. I know i know evidence. I showed up for the judge is like i don't know what about what if and then i've looked like a fool. Let me down the top five for the podcast people. Five to one here a little. God damn it after-sale their names again. The half of which. I can't pronounce the ludivine sagnier air. I think sonya as esther the new pope dummy tipper. Is naomi got to in the expansive and five. Cecile france as sophia. The new pope journey small as leticia lettie lewis and look graph country and the winner number one on one me mccoo fitting name for the winner of this category one category saku as ruby back east and lovecraft country. One me you on. You want us both over done. We're done of this block. We got commissions got right right dope will get dramas out here. Altered carbon season to going to be the winner. Free debated that evidence that we have not. Because i will quit bald. Move winning the best drama okay. Next category called move to be just to take my shoes. I'm gonna take my spinal chip and load do host. I'll be fine with that. Can i just have Jokin men's abs is that possible apps and pecks. Can i just if. I don't take captain. America's i'll take cats america's body. I'm giving anthony mackie. Really funny on his on my head on his body though but Oh that's right. It's a whole body stop now. we're did your territory. Oh lovecraft country territory to sure right. Yeah body torsos swap share. That was weird. Who okay next category is best commission so obviously these are the commission's all the questions we did this year which this year we opened them back up like halfway through the year so there aren't a ton of late in the year. I hope we didn't miss one to It's a slight. It'd be us. It'd be so asta miss having a top ten because because we screwed up ms categorized one because honestly we just go like the way we build this quarterly. The people are curious about this. We build these less quarterly so every three months. We stop and like okay. What have we done and we go through a memories and then we actually back page through the bald move catalog but sometimes we miss a movie and categorized as uncategorized and then we miss it. And everybody's like makes fun of us and says Help because like last year we boned up a big category We completely forgot something. I don't think it would have won. But it would have been in the conversation so i hope we didn't anytime. I see a small category on the we. Yeah whatever. it wasn't for commissions because we didn't have them open. Is this so refresh my memory. Do we usually do this. Category based on the podcast produced from that commission or the move. Okay we have a system. Oh right for i think. A four point system Let me let me a job back into the past to see what this is because he just a high forgot about this until you just mentioned but i know part of the overall quality. It's the quality. I think it's a combination of the overall quality of the thing and the entertainment value of the of the podcast. Like the quality of the podcast which is kind of like the intellectual stimulation and the the entertainment value of it But i have to go back to like ball. Dis twenty eighteen probably to a really Last year to get something Now because we didn't do commissions astier bodies two thousand eighteen ago Fine commission commission. Here we go. Oh christ all right. So we have the fim. On a scale of one to five highest surprise highest the fund our interests and the media quality so like surprise. Like how much fun we had. Its inherent interest which i think is like the depth of the analysis and whatnot and the quality of the media. Itself this is a very flukey swinging category. Yeah i've been happy with how we do. This is john. Jeez okay okay. So in no particular order. The injuries are the killer within slash made suffer which is a fan. Edit that we that someone had us review that they made risky a remix of the governor of what does that season three and four of the the dead. Yeah yeah. I think season three actually first part of season three. I'm not gonna say the whole title this one. Lame is from twelve. Apparently les miserables. You do the last legs on these are all or something i. I don't know it's french. i'm not. I feel like ever in the right to try and pronounce that lord of the rings fingers of the ring finger ship of the ring fingers around the ring fingers rings your fingers in the ring. Lord of the rings triple triple tower. Something the triple towers hours. Okay to actress triple threat and lord of the rings. Tt rock the return of the king. That guy could just be returned to the king does. Is it da. All those were the rings. Movies were commissioned this year. It's the return of the king. We got to cover and we'll get like. Yeah when we actually discuss like the award winners will actually dig out the commissioner to give them but like i didn't i know a couple of these off the top my head but will will will give credit where it's due and when they win then we ran up category with galaxy quest chaos british which is a star trek binds next generation behind the scenes documentary on the bridge labyrinth. And gatica okay. More like cattolica got a cat attacking a ball down here actually zero with bald bald bald. Move okay so let's let's do this Killer thin are we going to rape his surprise. i'm fairly surprised pretty high because like i like when someone came to me in i did at the walking dead. He has to talk about doing this. I finally did that thing. I want you to judge it like my anxiety. Went off to talk and charts this person's gonna pay a lot of money to get me to potentially shit over there fan project that i put him up to kenny boy. Can i say that. I think we all understood that there was a better cut of that somewhere. Those episodes and so it wasn't like crazy surprising that this could be done but it was also fairly surprising that someone did it and it pulled off in as fair is pretty professional in in. I think Hands down improvement over the original material. How does how does that number feel for per sprays or feels pretty good for guys like five would be like. We both didn't think it could be done and were shot. We always thought there is a show buried under all that that fluff turns out. Yeah like and like the ratios. Like i think he used. What five hours to generate like an hour and a half like that's kind of the ratio like he. He was able to boil four to five episodes down to like an hour and a half hour and forty five minutes kind of damning a show. But yeah it's a straight a better version of season. The early season three so much fun was the podcast that we did. I think this is not a not fund podcast but also wasn't a fun podcast. It's not like standard. It's not typical levels of walking dead fund in the podcast because it's a better version of walking dead way. Yeah yeah you know. It's strange that that works against it but in the fun category also fifteen minutes into this. I kind of relax and like okay. I don't have to worry about this being shit. So let's just I need because like the thing is. I'm always kind of like when i'm do a first time commission of something. I haven't really seen before in disqualifies because his cut. I'm just like oh god i hope i don't hate this guy hate this but in italy. Yeah i'm with you do. we have interesting commentary. I felt like we did have fairly interesting. Commentary on both the show the show itself and then how and how how he did it and it allowed us to talk about editing thoughtful interesting way which we don't get to do a lot and it led to some interesting conversations about the material itself. I think yeah. It's like a like a three and a half to four. We do these out. I'd say closer to three and a half okay. And then the media kuni equality he starting with a one for the actual show itself right to whatever whatever daylight there is between the walking dead and five. He's going to have to earn that Feel like he earned a lot of it. There were very few moments there. There were a couple of moments where i was like. You know this. This doesn't quite hang together. Could have been done a little bit better. I see it but like for the vast majority of it. I was wearing a smartly intercut between material and like put all this. You know focused on a plotline instead of trying to like jump around seven times. If i i said if if walking dead was that this quality It would be thought much better a huw day. Just stop wasting our time. So i could see this as being a four easy. It's not a five because there's only so much you can elevate but for easy. Yeah easy four okay. les miz. Here's the thing like these things. Okay you tell me about to surprise because this is one of my top three musicals and the one that just like. I also enjoy this because i felt like i needed a good cry and i was watching this. After address a family went to bed. And not that. I try to keep myself from by. Do try to keep myself from just not bubbling sobbing. That in the last thirty minutes to this fucking movie. Just just and i didn't even try to stop it. I just like fuck it. I don't care baptize me of my own tears. But what did you think. Because i know you're not too big as musical guy and winning this not. I've seen at least three different realized productions on. I've saw the movie on opening day. So like the surprise of this was like zero spy think you're better representative of surprise. So yes i had heard some things about this But not a lot mostly like the negative way like russell. Crowe can't sing. He's a terrible job. Air like and i went into it with that baggage like expecting russell crowe to just be completely tone deaf to to just get laughed off the screen and he didn't like he's fine. He's a fine singer. He's as as good or better than i am absolutely so i was surprised in regard and i found it to tom. Hooper has cast jim as the star in jesus christ super assume superstar where the technicolor dreamcoat. Right please get your testament yet. Your testaments mixed up to him new testament okay. the godfather three effect. You'd heard how bad just things were in. They weren't as bad as he thought. And i found it to be shockingly. Abo- tional shockingly engaging. I would put this like on balance between you and i probably like three think you're surprised by it at all. I was pretty surprised that i found as enjoyable as i did. Okay so it sound good three. Yeah like you know. We say like soundtracks elevated a demotion of seen. If it's just like br in its dna you can. You can get some pretty high emotional. Is there okay. Yes i remember being not super fun. I remember being fun. I also started off with the livestream as we all screened the key and peele brilliant like deconstruction of this type of hollywood music. You big big music. Big budget musical And i don't know there's yeah i. I have a lot of fun. Like i think it's inherently fun when you and i find common ground on stuff that i didn't think we would like i was really thinking that i wanna have to carry this. Because gyms going to kind of mostly eight has show some polite interest in it. And then like i i know you were you a lot more engaged with its alike. I find that very high in the fun but your new ride. It's nothing like goonies or a back to the future child. Pack willy wonka where we were just like rolling right so three by default default. If we can't say. Oh the stood out. I think three's good Interests how interesting was the conversation. That's a good question. I think we talked a lot about the revolutionary aspects of this. I know that much. And i really enjoy those conversations. I found them engaging the politics of it. All i liked sort of talking about an hathaway's character and how i had you know how good she was and also how. I wish there was more ver- in this movie. That's too bad guys in the first x i know man. She's so damn good intro more interesting conversations. See i had i remember. I came to a lot like i like. This would have been higher interest if you had more experience with it because like i had some hot apennine aches. I had some hot. You know like some some some character stuff but like you know the guy to ride. It didn't catch fire because if you'd have been hard core on the other side of one of those issues is right. You're being like big phan-tien stan. Or whatever then sean We'd had some some problems. But the the. I don't know i feel like this is going to maybe raise to three point five or something on the strength of discussing musicals in general. This might be the i am. I might be the second musical we've covered but i'm struggling to remember what the i would've been because i know we did hamilton but now was after. This wasn't the kind of musical renaissance. Musicals think we'd ever done one so did what to two in one year. All right i feel like a three point. Five here is warranted for interest. Oh happening visit cassette. I'd said painting. I got fucked up my own rivalry. So what do you put it for. Three point five for interest. Yeah i think so. That sounds about right. I can go as high as four but an immediate quality like I think this is. This is like one of the best big. I don't think you'll ever see a bigger better blockbuster musical Cats ain't going to get there. I'm going five. This is a this is a. This is a four size roger. Ebert gives us movie. Four stars so faulk. Roger might have been to cut off. What had roger ebert. Give les miserables. 'as les miserables. If he was twenty twelve was pretty late in his has eventually get to wear you don't you you don't you don't get it but like He's still alive. Still you know he was he was it was one of his top two thousand twelve. I can't find his Review of it. Though i'm comfortable with a five. I think only slight you can have movie is russell. Crowe isn't the world's best singer and actually no no. No no no no hold on. Because i remember the argument here things down to four point five because the shitty part about lame is is that they demand that each of the actors sing lines between saux and they don't have any continuing melody to connect all that stuff is almost like the actors are just making up the melody on the spot as they say the lines I think the movie suffers for that. But if it weren't for that it would be a five. It's funny because like they actually do a little bit less of that as a few times where they actually go and deliver stuff in a stage voice rather than singing it when they never do that in the stage. It's like that in this and then move. Yeah i read is the biggest problem. I had with that movie. Roger did he was alive. He just didn't give a shit about the les miserables so guess he refused to write a review because he hated it so much every once in a while while he come off. Well roger come off half cocked on a take a video games les miserables. Sometimes sometimes he'd have he'd have a corker overtake things figures outside the ring which this is the first movie right. This is the first one number one So here's the here's the thing. This is why. I think this is such a fluky category. This thing is going to get a zero on surprise. Oh like this. We're huge fans of this. Like we knew exactly what we're getting on the out of this one lake. Is it somewhat surprising. The podcast turned out that the thing is like okay. Here's here's a surprise factor as it was a total random deal. I would not watch this movie twice in the span of like two months and plow through two of the commentary tracks and watch almost all the expanded edition features. I just so happen to have gone through the blu. Rays ordered a blu rays and sat through and watched him with sesame. She had not seen in the commentaries or special materials before hadn't even seen extended editions. So like these films got lavished time and attention. That was a random luck of the draw really was like i have a lot of institutional history of this movie so like the fact that these came out they all came out to be two and a half hour bangers with tolkien harris season. All that kind of stuff like yeah. Yes the thing. These were like twenty five hundred dollar commissions. That just happened to you. Get for the regular price because i in intensely fascinated these movies and adjusted minimal rewatch. So it's really easy to give. I'd even give a evening. These movies a single watch. I watched every one of them with a commentary track. I'd not heard before to heard recently to give it a little bit extra juice. So i think that point yeah. The surprise of the timing is worth pointing asher so to on all these for surprise factor. I think that seems reasonable because like yes. I'm not surprised at all that we both enjoy the movies. I guess i'm a little bit surprised you enjoyed them is because i thought you might come out. You know wary of fantasy ground. Down game of thrones so oh yeah in context with what i've been watching lately. Maybe but i remember liking these movies in theaters. When i saw them. I'm not the book guy but definitely the movies held my attention and not a lot of fantasy. Does that for me. I think this. I'm going to lobby for five on the fun because i thought there was some solid tolkien chokes. There is some solid just like you know. Good natured. Observational humor about the material itself. Yeah shadow fox. And yeah is just like i said like how. Here's a question how you differentiate between of these. I think it's going down to media quality. Probably because we do have preferences on which movies the most of the three i would say. The fun factor also gets a boost. Because we got to talk about our personal histories with staff. And i have a lot of fun. Just you know reminiscing with you on that stuff. I mean this was a big moment of me being like you know like this. This this is what. Turn me from. Just being a casual fan until i oh god like these movies are like actually assembling of all these disciplines that are calculated. Have an emotional effect on me. How interesting yeah. He's a skit. Affor- perform the what scale. I don't know why you don't put five. Like i had a ball doing these biggest moment right like what is the. What is the thing what is not. Were you know the homeowner uncle frank. What is the the willy wonka. grandpa jomon. What's the gooney crab tank. They were there. Because i know i did like a little bit of voice acting as as that like people but i can't think of them Because they all kind of blurred together. And i yeah I mean yeah. If i say five and you say four than we compromise a four and a half. Yeah i think so. Because i don't want these just totally dominated category because i think interest is going to be super high with all the yasser dental research. You did with your thirty years of history with these books in these movies and this universe you brought it just a shit load of knowledge and insight every question. I had like for me personally. This was super interesting. Because i had so many questions about lord of the rings that i just didn't i didn't know i didn't. I didn't understand and night. Ask the questions. I felt like i came away from these podcast. Understanding game of thrones are sorry for the rings and maybe gave the thrones fundamentally much better than i did before i agree. I thought that i felt these are podcasts. Felt very proud of. And i also was like The other thing. That's kind of boost everything it seemed like the community was taken by like you know Wanted to commission them and then had the intention to commission them. All and then another person was so tickled that day. Just win in commission. Both of them And yeah like. I feel like i. I had to dig a little deeper. Because like i hadn't quite done as much research in the return of the king as identified others Bought because early movies. Yeah but i. I i wanted to because i wanted these to be the definitive podcast like these are commissions but also these are things that are absolutely valuable part of a catalogue. Be driving interest to you know. People are going to be discovering this in the same way that like you know. Leftovers are good good. Things are on youtube too. Which is cool. I yeah i i think interest is five out of five to two and a half to three gas every one of these things and no one ever complained in bala. God thought this was kind of bull. Shit yeah so. And then we just have to decide which is the best of the bunch. I think we were both kinda on the two towers. Who is the connective one. I know that's a controversial. It's more of like it's like a half step but the thing is like yeah. We are completely out of step with the ball new fan because day overwhelmingly to the one preferred the two towers and then you had fellowship and distant third was return of the king which that didn't surprise me like you know but i was kinda shocked that lake because the me defended the the one the movie that always makes me wanna watch them. All is the fellowship. Yeah like it's such a great such a great and streamlining of the original material that hits all the emotional highs it's it's a nice little self contained arc in adventure story and always always always make me want to just watch the other two So i think the original material. I guess i can easily give these all five but if you wanna like five and four point five four but i did this shitty the lord of the rings as i feel there maybe five four point five and five like based on how we enjoyed them. Okay here's the things like. I feel like i was partially persuaded about With with the two towers. That it's really good. And i almost want to do like five five four point five the biggest problem i had with two towers your love story right which is just basically a glance or to you at each other and like three minutes of screen time. That just complicates the movie. That doesn't need to be there this this. Try this love triangle. they've got going between else. Girl and and Irwin and aaron. Ongai tears and yohan. Yeah all those three didn't feel like you needed to be in the movie. Even though i know they do more with that in the next chapter in return king belykh but still it. Didn't it really didn't like this was something that they did. And i understand why because there's not a lot of women in this show that the everyone loves this and if you can get a little bit more representatation in there And it's not fatal. But like yes i even in the commentary. I think they thought probably we could do it over. Maybe we downplayed some of this stuff her. But and you're setting. No man can kill thing right like the ring. Yeah oh yeah yo and already is an inherently interesting character without giving her the hots for you know era goren and i said there's all that in the material it's just yet. They brought it they they. They planted those seeds watered them. Put some grow lights on it. And and the thing is is like yes. They works much better in the extended edition at least the resolution of it. But you had to go through a lot of kind of bad road to get there. So yeah i mean i like all of your points about the two towers being the inherent you know the the middle thing and but i don't know 'cause empire strikes back suffers from all those problems and it's the best easily the best star wars. So are we being a little bit. You know structuralist here. Maybe i'm biased. But i think empire strikes back handles that love story much better. Oh yeah. I'm not. I'm not going to love. I'm just talking about it okay. In terms of character arc. In your. I mean i still think i also i also really. I do prefer the battle of two towers to the big battle of return of the king yet. You're on the window. It's much more impressive. Like helms deep good real good man. Good the only thing the only thing that draw the man if you if you put the elephants scene and helm's deep and surfing on the shield in the return it be. It'd be no question. But god damn labels taking on elephant is the most bad ass thing in the whole series. I love an him. Kim's scape skateboard down those stairs is the worst. So what are you gonna do. I give them a five bucket but if you want to say four point. Five by can't in good conscience gives the worst of the three the same rating four five on to show. You're giving the return of the king five. Okay all right. Oh wait you. Didn't i though you'd go four point five on both of them but argue with five five again Do not send hate mail to host the bulb dot com sin. That shit to jim slight return the king just because it doesn't have quite as good a battle scene. It's still fucking epic right. It's like nothing was mishandled there. It's just not as we also watched battle is it must be said that we also watched different films. I watched extended versions of you watch the the theatrical version which i think is actually the superior products. It's not my favorite. But it's better in terms of just straight up filmmaking like as tighter at it's better i wish could i what needs to happen. Is definitive fan kaz. There's like a couple of scenes of the extended that i think absolutely belong in the originals But mostly the extended are are bloated versions of the original so there are many more ways support bald. Move than you might think sure. You can subscribe to the club or patron but those come with recurring payments. If you're interested in supporting us on your own schedule or maybe just showing your one time appreciation for a podcast particularly enjoyed. You can send us a donation. Just go to support dot bald move dot com and click on the donate link. It's all run through pay pal. Which means you can use your existing balance or any major credit card to send us a few extra bucks obligation free. That sounds like something you'd like to do. Head over to support that all dot com and click donate to bias. A beer were bottle of bourbon or a five bedroom mansion in the hollywood hills. We're not picky. Support dot gov dot com all right galaxy quest surprise one. Yeah both of us knew exactly news film was going to be fucking amazing and You know there's always like selfishly. There's i always. I always always like Further to be a little bit of a pleasant surprise factor. I guess maybe too because it just holds up like a champ is maybe i mean is tim allen project never ignite someone who likes to santa claus in the santa claus two in the last couple of years to make the three the santa claus in the worst thing ever that he's done certainly no i haven't seen for instance but yeah that's probably midyear but the thing is like yeah he's done all kinds of mostly good stuff areas. Tim allen does not bad. I'm not sure but yeah like one or go to. If you want to say that you should prize. It holds up. But i don't even think that's a surprise because like this has become embraced as like the thirteenth star. Wars movie star trek. Forget the fourteen. Now i feel like oh let's give a one is light on her majesty's secret service is like is this even a real james bond vegas it. Yeah like. This is the honor to her majesty's secret services. The peter sellars version of casino royale. Exactly exactly one before they knew is the latin version. Yeah once okay. One point five. That's fair fun. I don't see why this movie is not a five. It had lots of good jokes. Lots of track affection. I feel like it's Interest now here's where it might lose a point Like four yay. I mean it is a comedy right. So you're not gonna have amazing conversations around it. Yes three point. Five feeling feeling a middle. The road. Three here like i remember. We talked about careers of people which i found interesting like i. I remember doing research on. Brain wilson and Just too long. In tim allen talking about all of their careers up to this point and just like. What a monumentally huge star tim. Allen was to be in this movie and then what complete unknowns justin long and rainn wilson were compared to what they would become having sigourney. Weaver in here I remember talking about that and just like it. Seems like a really unlikely cast. Yeah ridden jesus christ A guy for moon same rockwell. Yeah sam rockwell. Yeah it's got a loaded. Cast loaded main gas and just digging into their careers and talking about where they were at the time and yeah that was being pretty interesting. I go at least a three point five to a four here okay. I'm feeling three point. Five quality fantastic. I'm the problem is we just did on the rings. Movie gave lord of the rings lord of the rings movie four point five les miserables. A four point five soleil. How talk this be a five. But it's like do you roll at the re. The roger ebert thing where it's like right what it is. Yeah like it's the perfect literally. The perfect spoof satire love letter to star trek. I tune in a better job. That's the thing. I still need to watch a seth. What's his name family. Yeah i still watch the orval. Because i hear that using. I can't believe it's our. I've heard like the what's the below decks. Something animated series. But but yeah i. I can't even imagine that because this is yeah. You're in and out and ninety minutes this is just a fun romp but i don't know by grab bars hammer. I think we give this a five all right. Fuck it for what it is. It's pretty damn perfect. I'm filing a protest with the bodies of the commission that we have rob lame is an alternative. The king of star or the two towers of star. But okay start just have a case on the bridge. So this is the dirty work behind the scenes documentary for nick generation seasons one in two. I gotta say. I thoroughly enjoyed this documentary. And it's something that i find myself referring back as a touchstone like it's really cemented. Some of the ideas. I had on writing and show running. That seem like it's one of those things where it's like israel it's kind of and it's we've touched on it but like this just nailed it. It's all about the characters your plot. Fuck your plot. Fuck your puzzle boxes fuck your villains of the week you can have that stuff and if you don't got the characters it doesn't mean anything but if you do have the characters even lazy ass c and d plots the fans can get some fun out of it because it's inherently fascinating to watch these characters. Interact with each other and this thing. It's such a big surprise. Because i didn't know this documentary existed and the stuff that same reveals about the making of and and coinciding this with our watch of star trek. We're joined watch parties on. Twitter is sunday night. we're now into deep into season. Three almost through that that like really changed my perspective on seasons one and two or or actually gave me perspective on seasons one and two and end the big disparity between quality of one and two versus three and beyond. I feel like. I understand the next generations early season so much better after this documentary. Yeah i think that like. I've always wondered why season three they got so much better because season two is in like everyone says all season to win. The show grows the beard out because reiger gets his beard season to really sucks. Get on the whole and starts put apply in hard vacuum. It's not as bad as season one to season one historically preposterously babb yet. If if like gene roddenberry doesn't in these show runners like win the battle that they did. I don't know that it ever gets much better than season to dan. Characters can ever be in conflict. Yeah that's such a great idea. And i'm glad roddenberry stuck to it because that is a very important star trek thing like you know. There isn't stupid conflict between the care right. It's not that they're never in conflict but it's never in conflict but they never ever the first thing you know just like a simple misunderstanding between crews not often. What drives the drama and that that like put some stuff in the dna. That i'm glad you know like roddenberry's sticking to his guns on some weird shit made oddly next generation what it was but it was also holding back and a lot of ways and some of what's worse some of his life old time chums and cronies was what's really stir was strangling the oxygen supply to tracks brain. And getting rid of ousting. those fellows Yeah in some of the some his stupid studio mac and nations and games that they hissing contests the hoops. They made fucking patrick stewart. Jump through this thing. I if this isn't a five. I mean maybe four because it's a star trek documentary that someone pay me to watch like how bad but like yeah i i'm with you. I didn't even know this. Fucking thing existed so four point five okay head because it's star trek sure. Yeah you're right. It wasn't like the history of producing pennies in america or something. It's fucking mayes. Yeah yeah. I can't believe this is so interesting. Had is better than i thought it was gonna be in had any right to be fun. I mean i almost want to give it five just on the thirty seconds of reicher versus kirk that we got in his documentary. The scene itself or they're they're chatting. Yeah but this is like for the podcast. I mean like i said right. How often does do you. And i at this stage in their lives. Get an opportunity to discuss something like star trek with fresh eyes discussing our histories with lord of the rings reminiscing. We got to do a lot of that in here. And you're right with fresh takes on it that might be more interest than fund though by time. Distinguishing between the two because intellectually stimulating stimulating stuff is inherently fun. But yeah fun is like yeah. This isn't this isn't like crab tank baths and you know the the grandpa joe and all that shit so maybe maybe four is as high as it can get but the good news is. I'm ride or die five for interest on this show thing. Yeah okay for. I am with the interest in the fun. I was wanted to go three point. Five 'cause i don't. I can't remember the moment. You're right like superfund. The reminiscent is not just means like. Oh yeah that was fun. Like fun means like yes like belly laugh and yeah lots lots a yoke stuff like that. I really observations stuff like that Okay it's still an escort. Pretty high. Because i think media quality is off the charts as well top because i watched a low rez youtube copy with spanish subtitles. That i could not dismiss. Jesus and as far as i know you. That's the only way you can watch this damn thing. I'll youtube with a standard def copy like with with spanish subtitles. Hard part burnt into it. It's a damn shame. This is worth four buck rental on amazon prime. I don't know. Is that still a problem. That's going to take anything off this. It's just gonna be half a point because the documentary itself is good like very few documentaries to this level of insight on a particular topic conclusively lay out their cases in this holy. Hell apparently you can rent this on amazon for buck ninety nine now all right then i think we send it to the top. Five you can rent you can written hd for to ninety nine I mean it's got william shatner as the narrator and interviewer in a lot of these cases. So i mean yeah i know you had problems with like the art style because it had like this kind of like wild west multi. Roddenberry was a big scam high stakes gambler era high stakes gambling. Kind of western. Your rice feel to totally didn't work as well as it could have. Yeah dan i don't know i think four is good because it is a extremely is the best arts documentary i've ever seen but like on the on the scale of documentaries there were some presentation problems and the jinx is like the gold standard of documentaries. Nothing i mean. There is a smoking gun. This for sure is just a silly side. Yeah roddenbury didn't confess the killing somebody on shitting so he actually killed. Tasha yar okay labyrinth. I'm fairly surprised. I enjoyed this to the extent that i did like. I thought that this was like you know. I got to see mail from these folks and like there's like these These these young these these people in love and it's a foundational movie and they've really bonded over and they dressed up as jareth and face and in halloween thing. And i'm like i love you guys but i really hope i don't should on your favorite movie i like. I said the practical effects in this movie are something else like. They're like on the same level of lake thing. Yeah that's exactly where i went in there. Not like emotionally in the same pal or stylistically but yeah. They're the puppeteer likes. You can see the like okay. Well in in the cg this would be better but they still affected. They don't get in the way of the material and factors a couple of seems. Like i can still remember the hands hand faces seen. You couldn't do that better than cg in fact now look dumber because it's actually impressive. That people did this. Bright and a lot of like force perspective visual tricks like in the same reign of like the bridge in indiana jones. Last crusade that we're like entire set sizes and like really worked with seemingly little compositing. Yeah i the visual trickery of this was just cool. So i don't know that it's a five but it's better higher than three because i thought i was going to be politely interested in this and you know get and you've been so long since i saw this movie that i couldn't remember if it was actually a good movie. Yeah and it turns out. It's it's pretty good I liked it so four also. Yeah like it's like you know. The other thing is like you complete like is not to my particular taste but like a hell of a lot of really cool kind of fantasy girl coming of age movies. Yeah where i can think of like a half dozen boylans especially in that star. Fighter was that the navigate. design navigator. That's other when the had was the other one had ethan hawke that was like navigate. Here's is something very similar where they'd take off an alien start this tons of them to these things and the yeah like it really i. I would definitely show i. My daughter wants us how. I've encouraged her to get my son to anyway. So yeah four. I think it's a good good call fun fun. Earrings pretty high. Just because david bowie likes to wear tight tight pants. We had a lot of fun at the. If you go look at the post that we did for this particular podcast on our website. And i posted a few good gifts of bowie bulge which to me adds to the fun. We got to make jokes there. I loved talking this other. There's one part of this movie that i don't like that i feel does not hold up. Certainly it's the bog creatures. I can't i can't remember what they're called but the dancing singing turned me off their flame. The flame guys. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah bargains or something or whatever they call yeah yeah. Yeah but it was a lot of fun to talk about him. Yeah i i think this is like a f- a solid for yep with interest. I think feel like discussing some of this stuff around like the coming of age of the young woman here There was a lot of weird like peto stuff in his first. Two right part of that. David bowie as this old ass. Like man he's right. There's this romantic connection. They're trying to make between the two and nfc's back into it and it's a little bit. Squeaky i think but also they're tr- they're trying to say like this girl is coming of age right. This girl is dealing with all of this emotional changes Physical changes the attraction. That's yeah and like there's a guy i remember. We talked about dark way to read this about like her stepfather molesting her. And like you know like other than that. I see the validity of i just don't agree with the the sound of it like it's not crazy way to look at it Yeah no those are the super interesting stuff where we've talked about like. What does that mean. And like the guineas. Kids are threatened to be murdered by italian gangsters. And like i think that's about a serious threat as like goblin king. You know a abducting her doing things to her And the fact that she is the one at the powell to me the one that has the power right. He's trying to seduce her on his terms whereas she away from it on her own terms. Which i really label. Yeah i like. I i with either. Was i knew that there was this commentary on it and i was like kind of like oh god i don't know what the the i'm going to feel about but like yeah i'm like no honestly i think this is a previous movie. Holds up maybe not in everywhere it goes but like an ultimately where it ends up. Sure yeah so interesting point five. Least yeah i think four or five point five skid media quality like i said there are some problems. I don't think the box stuff is very good at all. Didn't need to be in there. It was just a showcase for another thing they can do with puppets everything else. I i mean it's it's a it's also cheaply made in places right. You can tell like the acting. I don't think what's her name is doing a particularly good job of acting in this in very early in her career. Yeah jin jennifer connelly right. Does her for one of her first rules. If not the i think it might have been introducing but I don't think she's. I think it works is like not necessarily a movie but just kind of like It's worth watching as an adult just once just to see the spectacle of the effects. The jim hinson stuff that they just nailed gap Like they fully realized characters in a way. That hadn't been done since i iota and won't be done until like you get the lord of the rings with needle and ghalem. They just really effortlessly. Sold allow these characters. Were in a way. That kind of muppets do where it's like. You forget that they are not treated like actors and carry themselves as such and that weight carries across the screens. I i have a hard time giving us more than a four for sure But i kind of want to go like three and a half on this. If i was like a a teenager early teenager when his movie i came out and probably close to was but i wasn't allowed to watch it. I've probably see no way like nostalgic. You know. I don't know why this isn't as good as as goonies if grew up as a teenage girl and saw this at the right time just like know i saw goonies when i was like eleven year old boy and is like a fucking greatest thing. Ever right so yeah. Unfortunately those are all. But i'm feeling a three point five here. If you wanna go higher. I could maybe see it but now it doesn't have problems that i think a lot of these others. Don't write three point five. I'm fine with that. What we gave goo are actually wanted to see your knees. I'm trying to go back to see if i can find that. Don't don't you're going to destroy us here. You're going to prove the. We're charlatans willy wonka chocolate factory for this feels very in line with that author. Isn't any part of willy wonka factory they actively dislike. There's a few that i think are pretty rough. But we're not here to relitigate the bodies of the past true we're here litigated. Gatica so. I know you're a huge fan of this movie. Always have been. The surprise was probably not there for you but it had been a very very long time since i had seen this movie and i don't remember being very impressed by it on second watch here. It's way more impressive than i remembered. I thought wondering was going to be good from the disliked the plotting of performances. And all that. But i wasn't i i'm amazed at how relevant it still felt like janaka was so fucking far ahead of the future as far as like genetic engineering and stuff and really asked like brought up a lot of questions. I think we'd do well to like maybe check in again twenty years later so yeah. I'm pretty high. Surprise thing too. Because i i knew that. They were really good intro early performances by ethan hunt. Jude law Houma thurman but i didn't. Yeah i didn't didn't expect to hold up quite this will be relevant relevant. So i don't know what do you put this like a a three afl. It's a four for me. Because i remember like being sort of impressed benaroya early in second time around. I really enjoyed it. Yeah i don't know on on there's a lower no. I i think that's fair ice. Wish i wish i was more. I feel like i'm rusty at these. Judgments baldi's the commissions because it's we took a year off doing essentially. I am to like now. That i'm looking back les miz. It's probably a bigger surprise that i really enjoyed a musical than it is. The gatica was good. Yeah yeah you can get a three point five. I can't in good conscious give it a four. What do you think. Well i think the thing. That hellenist bag as i was like a one. And you're like five three so some of the like i said this is a fake war. Show people what you pay for. Yeah yeah there are no turned commissions. That's something we can celebrate. You know true not been. Many historically seems like once in a calendar year. You'd have one that you know all around we kinda maybe wish we had back. But but this yeah. This is fun lou schizophrenic patients. I remember this being a superfund jest. No oh there was. There was a whole thing about zander berkley. Just one to get is on ethan. Hawke's dick this entire movie like it's all been a big ruse to santer berkeley. It's his doctor. The guy who's like us see him for. Yeah yeah i just wanted to get is on but like there's this thing at the end where like i i stuck with the yeah. I don't know why this moment sticks with me but they have to booths set up for pissing two cups. The male and the female booth are there explicitly like dividing the sexes. Here and there setup. And i don't know how the women are getting the urine into the cup without some severe splashing and just like there's propped i dunno it. Seems like a bad system for the ladies here. I remember that i remember. Yeah the dick peaks from santa berkeley but fun. I remember talking about how. The manufacturer of the suicide machine here apparently put a handle on switch on the inside of the incinerator. What purpose says. I don't fucking know right. Why do you got it autoclave. You got an yeah. But i don't remember too much more was like fun stuff. It's going to be high interest for sure. Oh yeah. I'm comfortable giving this a three like that's a neutral. It wasn't unfunny like some some things we've some movies. We don have been unfond like just just dark depressing material this. I don't know because this isn't always felt like little triumphant. It's a triumph of the human spirit. Not a a crushing of it and then interest. I feel very high. We had good discussions around genetic modification. I think interest is very high five easily. It's is one of those you know navel-gazing near future stuff that we fucking love to get into the weeds with an we dissect the the film making itself quite a bit monier. Errative arcs with the swimming and the brothers and all that stuff Yeah i really remember enjoying that. Podcast from an interest perspective. The movie media quality I think it's a five. Because i always loved this movie Yeah i think it's five. I four point five but the lowest having a hard time remembering any flaws in it. Yeah i mean like previous fives in two thousand seventeen. American gangs through the dark knight. Jackie brown master and commander star trek to a terminator two judgment day. Like there will be blood like these are not all the you know like these are all these are all solid. Yeah i if it's if it's if yeah if the dark nights a five. Why can't this be five. I like it Minor with like the the sets occasionally like i said but gosh i think we gave the thing four point five heat for four point. No that's perfect five. Okay okay. Bladerunner final cut four point. Five boy some years where we're harder on films and others so we just total these now i think so i think so sometimes when things are equal we are like within a half point we can like just by fiat because yeah we we do not. These are just tools that help us. These are not the end. All be all because i can already tell through previous years that we we Put our thumb on the scale a couple of times ten fourteen and sixteen hell hole lord of the rings. Gee whiz what do you. Fourteen sixteen even with the lack of surprise. Hold them back. 'cause i tell you what is the ones that are if you can get us an excellent movie. That surprises us boy. You are well your way to baldy gold because you get into maryland gangster. Something we haven't seen okay. Let's supposed to be and it turns out to be like one of the best gangster movies. I've ever seen some the band like. Yeah that's the shit that like. No one murder sis. Campy seventeen four five nine ten seventeen. Maine's got that surprise. Baby as does it really does it for things. A twelve and a half sixteen. Damn this we had some good commissions this year man. Ten seventeen from canada. Holy moly all right. I'm going to put these in order of gosh hard. First things to get that high man that's it is. This might be the first over seventeen movie we've done went through the two thousand eighteen in two thousand seventeen and two thousand sixteen. We didn't i didn't record the breakdowns of the spin of spill spin. Spiff him. Yeah we really need to change the order of some of those and we can get like mid or spam Fims sounds like a slur vim boy commissions. The latest twitter novelty again his twitter account to be banned. That's a that's a booming business on twitter right now. Oh yeah yeah yeah boy. Fishing physics anyway. Here's here's how it breaks down at one and two move tied for first is gonna chaos on the bridge tied for second lord of the rings fingers. Outside of the ring. At lord of the rings t rock labyrinth. Look and lord of the rings triple titty twister are tied for sixteen galaxy quest at fifteen killer within made to suffer fan at. Its at fourteen point five and les mis fourteen. All of the may suffer fan edits super respectable scores. Holy shit because i know for a fact there have been some years. Where movies have gotten hand. Never found the sixteen point five In the history of the the ones we've that seems to be the the best that we've done thus far damn So this we might have set new records which i mean we are a little little easy on things but you know who cares. Well some of those big movies. Don't surprise us right because we know they're amazing. So here's the thing where we we get real. Yeah do tie-break. I have a hard time believing we did a better podcast and fellowship of the ring or the two towers feeling you and the only reason i say that over the return of the king is because i ran out of a little bit of gas on return of the king and i made up for it with tolkien. Heresies and lake An audit of all the endings of return to the king. But like i yeah like. I didn't have much in the way of production. That was i detail and behind the scenes on that movie. That i did it the other so i i said like i'm actually shocked that like i'm not displeased. The gadston and the chaos and the bridge. But like i think that gun to my head i think fellowship the ring and the two towers are the best best podcast we've ever done and bald move history like i mean. I'm very pleased with what we did on. The leftovers am also very pleased on the podcast. That on the lord of the ring series. Okay so i just ordered these from one to five lord of the rings the ring chaos on the bridge lord of the rings true two towers gatica lord rings. A return of the king. Convince me that this is not correct. I lay michigan fog. It's always surprise was unfortunate and more just like funny fund talk also. This is one of the first ones that we ranked today so maybe deserves higher numbers if we had gone more on a roll here with ranking things but yeah by one point higher surprise surprising even and a half and if you like deigned to give this movie of five i don't know like i said it seems like it's controversial even amongst a movie going public and whatnot but it did win oscars so i yeah. That's a good top five with lord of the rings dominating. It just feels like that star trek english such as prize so novel so like enlightening and fellowship is really where we hit all of our behind the scene stuff super hard ride and trees with movies and les ms coming out of fourteen is because like our lowest opt-in the top ten of twenty seventeen bottomed out at We had an eleven point five in there right so sailing this this and that was just the we had a third like time greats. Willie wonka thirteen point. Five rounding out the top ten for twenty show seventeen and eighteen. You know Our lowest lowest scoring thing was highlander. Fourteen but it dominated. Like i think he got really high and surprise and fun lambert holy shit just talking about him. Yeah so this is both the highest scoring category year that we've ever had and also the top lowest scoring you know. These are amazing. Amazing commission all of them like i. We didn't have a bad or even mediocre one in the bunch. Yeah they were all at once. I came really fresh-faced and super interested the podcast and really appreciate. Everyone's support of this category. Like i was you know. I thought we'd do look like we've kept the commission fearful and we're off to a strong start in twenty twenty twenty one already got tombstone in the books which is man. I really enjoyed the podcast and enjoyed the the watch of that and we got a lot a lot of fun stuff coming up to everybody. Got to others I think We got to in the books. But we're not quite sure what the projects going to be but I'm excited about honestly an either of them. So let me run these down real quick and then we'll get out of here From five to one the nominees and the winner our number five lord of the brings return to the king number four gatica number three lord of the rings the two towers number two chaos on the bridge a number one best commission of twenty twenty is the rings fingers outside the ring sorry fellowship of the ring outside jim's kingdom in the states it's known as fellowship of the ring. That's jim jones released. Aim the didn't make it through translation. The people who are watching this who are just listening. We'll have no idea what i'm saying fingers outside the ring. Maybe they'll connect the dots. But yeah it's it's it's a tough code to break. Hey thanks for watching all this this this homework material If you made it through the end of the year the real champion. I think we're about done. We got i think these things we have one more and is a doozy. It's fucking drama category. Yeah but And then we got to do awards ceremony itself but yeah i'm excited. See what everybody makes an hour really excited. Because i'd still it's a mystery. I haven't done any calculations and tabulations of the polls the surveys. We've done so. I do not know what the bald moved. Communities made made out of this stuff. So i'm super interesting. What they think is the best commission. Thanks for watching slash listening and we'll see in the next one.

lilly chan Jessie buckley michael k williams ted lasso Tessa thompson Masako john wick sophia kelsey America