20 Episode results for "Jesse Thorn"
Jena Friedman, comedian & host of Adult Swim's Soft Focus
"This message comes from NPR sponsor. Comcast business. Business has always been driven by innovators. That's why Comcast business is helping you with technology that provides better experiences. Comcast business beyond fast. It's bulls eye. Jesse thorn quick heads up before we get into this interview. My next guest, and I talk a little bit about sexual assault about violence miscarriage in some other uncomfortable topics and how they fit into the world of comedy today. And there's a little bit of graphic language as well this nothing super explicit. But if you somebody that you're listening to this with might be sensitive to any of those things, we just we just wanted to let you know. Well, I with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fun dot org and is distributed by NPR. Jesse thorn bullseye? My guest, Jennifer. He's a comic writer and a producer. She got her start writing for David Letterman, then she moved onto the daily show where she was a field producer producing some of the shows best pieces with correspondence like Samantha b and almadraba these days Jenna hosts this show on adult swim. It's called soft focus it's kind of periodic special that she does as on the daily show. She produces these segments that take on the news of the day with a satirical edge. But Jenna is now in front of the camera and the segments sometimes get very very uncomfortable. She interviews an eccentric millionaire surrounded by his armed guards. She talks with an ex cop who was caught plotting to kidnap and eat his wife, she submits male gamers to a VR simulation of unwanted sexual contact. It's all kind of stomach churning genyk constantly pushes boundaries in her work. It's political, but. Also pan. And a little abrasive Friedman is a talent in finding the darkest flaws in our world and talking about them in a way that cuts very deep. It's unsettling, but also hilarious does stand up to. Here's a little bit from a performance. She did on Conan lately, I've developed a very rational fear of men based on how you portray yourselves in person. Like if I'm walking down the street, and I see a group of businessmen. I don't know what the term is like a fraud. If I if I see a scam of men in suits coming towards me. I'll find that. I'll just instinctively clutched my purse and be like don't groped me. Don't grow me. I'm awake. A lot of my a lot of my male friends are really nervous in this homey to moment. So they're asking me for advice. And I tell them if you're around a woman, and she makes you feel nervous just picture her clothed. Think of her as your daughter or better yet a person? Jenner friedman. Welcome to bullseye. It's my savvy on the show. Hi nice to be here. It's just weird listening to your stand up in a soundproof room with one other person. You were a field producer on the daily show for a few years. Can you tell me what that job involves? Well, we were writing and directing segments for the show. So any any segment with a correspondent in the field had a field producer like news shows which kind of field producers a person who's with correspondent in the field. But I think with our show because it was fake news or not fake news. But just not pure news at had kind of at its allies elements that role was more of like a writer director. Yeah. So I I had a buddy who was field correspondent for the daily show, Al Madrigal. And I went and visited him at the daily show office one time, and it was talking to him about his job and Alicea very talented comedy writer, and as well as talented comedy performer. He's like, you know when I do field pieces. It's really it's really the producers project. I am. I am a vehicle for that writer producer. That's a person who works on this for weeks or a month. I'm a person who flies to Florida for two days. Yeah. I'm glad you said that that's the hardest job in comedy that that job because you're basically a filmmaker, but your actors are unwilling participants except for the correspondent everyone else in the segment, I are not necessarily wanting to be portrayed the way that you are going to portray them again. We we don't take people out of context though, there is an element of journalistic integrity, at least when I was doing the field pieces, and you just shoot a bunch of stuff. And then you put a piece together. I mean, it was really really hard. But it was like a crash course in film school for me. What do you feel like the goal of those pieces was? I mean, I think I I always like to sugar coat like if I want people to understand nuances of some issue. I'll give you an example, one of the pieces. We did was the fast food worker strikes were nothing about that is funny. But I really personally believe that people should have living wages. So it was a story. I wanted to cover and if you can use comedy to to show that type of a story in a new light, you can hook people into it that particular piece, I did Samantha was a correspondent it's hard to kind of joke or talk about free market economics, and how it has failed. And so and also to talk to really vulnerable people who are fighting for living wages, so for that particular piece, we actually found a person who has a I think it was like a hedge fund that was like a seventy million. Dollar company, and he came on the show to talk to us about why mar how markets determine wages, and how living wages would mess up all sorts of things, and you're probably going to edit or censor what am I about to say? But. One of the questions. We asked him. Do you believe that markets determine wages, and he said, yes, supply and demand markets dictate wages? So then the second question. Sam asked described me the type of person worth two dollars an hour. And he said verbatim. I don't know the PC word for retarded and right away. That was two minutes into him sitting down. I was like we have a segment because what this is showing is that the people who believe this have very little empathy for people working, and that's actually in my mind. The most distilled version of that argument that if you were talking about uh news show, you couldn't really say that because it's like two editorialized. But if we can show it coming out of the mouth of somebody who who is like a free market unfettered, you know capitalist. Then it proves a point in a way that it's like it's using humor. But humor is not necessarily the right word in that situation. But it's like getting to the core of that argument. I think that the. Having watched soft focus your to specials for adult swim. There is a distinct similarity in structure, you're doing a similar thing to a daily show field piece. Generally speaking, the tone is different. And I wonder if first of all if you agree with that. And second of all if you if you could kinda describe what you wanted to be different about what you were doing on adult swim. Well, I mean, that's my show. I don't have adult sons been really really cool about not really having a heavy hand in editorial of it. And I think because it's more under the radar. I can take at the moment more risks than the daily show would take also, you know, I'm thankful that people enough. People have seen the daily show that the format is like familiar enough that people trust what we're doing without being hypercritical or anything if that makes sense like it's a recognizable format, but then like. Goes off the rails. And we are in different times. Like, Joe, the daily show ended pre Trump and in that time period, we had this kind of shared reality that even if people disagreed he felt like you were on the same ground. Whereas now everything so insane. It's just it's just a different time without getting into specifics. And it feels like if you watched the news, and you see what's going on you feel insane. So I think that the show is partly a response to that. It's it's a little bit. For lack of a better word and a little bit pushing the envelope more because I feel like right now, we kind of have to. It I found it discomfiting Greenway that I had not seen like I think probably if I think back to what else I've watched on television that had that level of intensity in the comedy. Like, the only thing that came to mind was a show called wonder shows. And I love wonder. Yeah. Yeah. That's very very deeply distressing satirical show that I don't know the the like the most vibrant memory for me is a a a little boy doing a a field piece like a kids journalism field piece at a race track and talking to this sweet old, man. And at one point he says, here's my impression of you. Gamble gamble. Gamble. Die. I love that. Like the kids the beat kids kids on a straight. I love that. Yeah. I mean, I I'm not out to make people feel comfortable. I don't know for better for worse. It's not my MO. Did you have a meeting with the staff of your show where you said or someone said, maybe we should talk to Gil the cannibal cop and someone else's like, yes, I think that's a good idea in someone else's like, yes, I think that's a no I think that's a bad idea like gills fine. We talked to Gil on home turf. It was at our studio. We made sure that when we sent him home. He was like kept far away from the women. I think you'll also find out like he followed me on Twitter, but he also is like a horror writer, he was like a creative outlet. Now. I don't think he's going to eat any women going forward because he has, you know, found a niche niche. I don't know let's play a clip from guests Jenna Friedman and her show, soft focus, we talked a little bit about the cannibal cop Gill valley who who sent many. Emails and message board postings about eating his wife and her friends. It's so funny. It's sad. But no one got hurt. So it's funny. He also wrote a book about it. And he says that everything was just him indulging in very specific and complicated, fantasies. And this is my guest Jenna Friedman interviewing him about it. I'm not this lunatic. I'm not this homicidal maniac. You know, I'm actually a Harry normal. Nice sky, very go with the flow. Oh, wouldn't say boring. Just just just a humble humble kind of just random. Sure. Basic guy. Yes, you're plotting to eat women on a website for fun. Your wife had suspicions. She put spyware on the computer and caught you calls the FBI they arrest. You you go to jail. What advice would you give someone who was busted by their wife for plotting to eat her and her friends on a dark finish website. I don't know how many people have actually been in that situation. Those fun those one of the funniest because. I don't know just normalizing it in a way that made it boring was so funny to me, and he didn't like to be called boring. That was what was so funny. I mean that port will I don't for that poor guy. But the media had such made such a meal out of his where at the same time his wife left him. Like I joke with my boyfriend that if like I found out that he was plotting to eat me. I'd be like, Josh, I know him, you know, and I know I know what he's capable of. And I'm pretty sure he wouldn't eat me. But like, if if you think your partner's going to eat, you there's like something to that that feels real and somewhere else, I read that we didn't include in the interview he would like ask her what her running routes were and stuff like it was just very weird. But it also was really fun to show a side of someone that the media hasn't which is that he was like this like university of Maryland guy kinda normal decided. Just like become a cop. No. And I think our culture so obsessed with serial killers. And it just even though like it feels boring at this point. They're not masterminds. They're just kinda like basic dudes. And I think if we if we stopped being obsessed and glamorizing men who kill women. Maybe they would do it less though. I think the funniest thing in that clip. I mean, the those laugh is you transitioning from the description of what a normal guy he is to the specifics of his incredibly, not normal behavior. But the thing that I enjoyed the most in that is you just maintaining his tone and stretching out as long as you possibly could the interchange of you, and he exchanging descriptors of how boring. Yeah. We were really careful when we produce that with the women because the second part is dating game. And I at the last minute, we're like what if we got a woman on the on the game who would actually date him as opposed to have it just be like a joke about him being creepy. Like, why don't let's go on a fetish website. This is just a window into production and find a woman who's like into blood play or whatever. And we did and like the real. So that dating game was completely unscripted. He had no idea that was going to happen beforehand the way that that segment the way that we pulled it off. And it was a whole team of really smart people. I was working with to this day. I'm like amazed by what we were able to capture in that dating game. Having the only thing we scripted where you know questions for everybody. There were questions we had him asked the women that I couldn't I break very rarely breaking his laughing. And there was this one moment when he was asking the women like how? Do you run that if you like listen, really carefully? I'm I'm I'm uncontrollably quietly giggling 'cause it was the most uncomfortable hilarious thing. I've ever been part of we'll finish up my conversation with Jenna Freedman after a quick break. When we come back. We'll talk about why women still have a hard time breaking into the world of stand up comedy. It's bullseye for maximum, fun dot org and NPR. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Sierra Nevada brewing company in one thousand nine hundred eighty with a few thousand dollars and used dairy equipment, Ken Grossman. Founded Sierra Nevada brewing company canes award winning ales, propelled him from home brewer to craft brewer today, Kenan his family still own one hundred percent of the company one of the most successful independent craft breweries in America, more at Sierra, Nevada dot com. This season on visibility. Should we empathize with our enemies from Oregon's shooting in die? Is it? Okay. To have machines control, our emotions, I should be creeped out. But at the same time like we'll thank God. I live in stage. No, easy answers. Just the right questions. Invisibility ah back on March eighth? Welcome back. And thank you, Dan for that. Scathing report, as you know, mex- fund drive is coming up March eighteenth to March twenty ninth which has some folks pretty excited, but as families around the world, get ready to celebrate this season of giving community and quality podcasts. Some are wondering if it's just too much. They are some people are all for comedy and culture, but with forty five shows offering hundreds of hours of bonus content. Plus all the max fund meet ups taking place around the world, some people think it's too much while other people think it sounds totally awesome. I took my granddaughter to the mall to get her picture taken and the mall. Pod ferry was short. And I'm just gonna say I'm sorry. But everyone knows the pot fairies. Well, I think we should just leave it there. Until next time. Here's the news. You need to know. Max drive runs from March eighteenth through twenty nine be sure to listen to all of your favorite podcasts. I know I will. It's walls. I Jesse thorn. My guest is Jenner Friedman. She's the host and creator of the adult swim special series soft-focus. She's also a comic and writer who's written for the daily show and the late show. Dave Letterman warning before we get back into the segment Jenna, and I talk about sexual assault and miscarriage and a few other sensitive things and things are a little graphic. If you're sensitive to that kind of thing we just wanted to give you a heads up. Anyway, back to my conversation with Jennifer. You pretty much open your show with segment about rape. Yeah. Why did you decide? Because it happens all the time. I mean, I was in college, and I could count on my fingers and toes the amount of women. I knew that passed out at a frat party and woke up with a inside them like it was so bad when I was in college. And I remember the whole controversy with the Rolling Stone article on on UVA, and how that was handled and botched and it it was so heartbreaking 'cause I. It's such a real thing that I know not just from secondhand experience. How how much of a an epidemic that is that I felt like at that moment. We lost this opportunity to really talk about it. And it's not, you know, there are serial offenders who just get away with it on college campuses. That's most that is the most of people who commit date rape. But it's also people who just have never thought about consent and don't think of it as as rape. And and I think just getting people to think about consent and using comedy to do that. It's not gonna stop everybody. But to a guy who takes the girl home who's really really wasted or girl who takes advantage of a guy who's really really wasted. Maybe if they're thinking about what affirmative consent means they'll act differently. I think when I do jokes, and I'm not a stand up comic. But I perform comedy in front of audiences. I found myself over the last ten years in have been grateful to have done. Reevaluating the way that I think about sexual assault in humor rape jokes rape jokes. And one of the reasons I think is that as dude it took people kind of looking me in the eye and explaining to me that when I'm sitting in a room with two hundred people in them and some proportion like one or two in five have been of the women in that room have been sexually assaulted that. It no matter who is the, you know, target of my joke. No matter what the structure of my joke is and all the joke is about this. It's not about this or whatever. Like, I'm joking about probably like the one of the biggest traumas in the lives of twenty percent of the people sitting in that room. And that was something that I had to really think about a lot and. I imagined that it's also something that you have thought about a lot before you waited into doing any kind of humor about that. So they're actually like two issues here. One is is talking about a subject, even if you're talking about from the right side of it with humanity and having that trigger men and women who have been victims of harassment or assault. I am not someone who says that you should shy away from talking about whatever because you might trigger somebody in the audience. I wanna believe that women are not porcelain dolls. And that people who go to comedy shows, they have to be responsible for how they're going to react to a subject matter that a comedian talk about for example, I have jokes one particular joke about miscarriage and part of the reason I'm talking about is because Republicans are legislating it. We're not talking about it is so common, and so many women experience it, but because we. Don't talk about it. It increases this kind of isolation stigma when it happens to you. So I think we really need to be talking about these very real things. So that men like Lindsey Graham who've never seen a giant don't get to legislate them. He might have seen one at birth. I imagine his eyes were closed whatever that's issue number one. Number two, though is the issue of like a man talking about rape jokes. And I think any man can talk about rape jokes or anything. You just run the risk. If you're on the wrong side of it of sounding like a rapist. But I won't tell you. If you have a rape joke that makes fun of rapists don't shy away from that. Because we need people talking about the the things and if somebody says, hey, you can't talk about rape. That's messed up because men get raped too. And these are real things. And again, I think we should be talking about everything and talking about it with honesty, and kindness and humanity and not being afraid when people who may be aren't listening to you misinterpret. What you're saying just be able to kind of. Nothing is less funny than explaining a joke. But if people need you to explain a joke to to not just I mean, people are going to jump on. You know, matter what. But I think you should shy away from rape jokes. If you're telling them from a side that is anti rape. Yeah. I mean, I I have I don't have firsthand experience with sexual assault. But I have firsthand experience in in my family with post traumatic stress and the thing that I thought about it. And ultimately for me, I decided I'm like I'm going to really do my best not to talk about that in a humor situation. It was thinking about the ways that like, you know, fleet week, but my my my dad is a veteran who suffers from severe post traumatic stress disorder and just thinking about the way that fleet week affects him like fleet week the most innocuous thing on earth. Like, I even even a pacifist loves the blue angels. It's really fun. It gets cool airplanes do tricks, but thinking about the ways that that affected him in my? My life. When I was a kid. You know, the way that I saw it. I thought you know, I don't think that I I don't think that I'm going to do a good enough job of contextualising, whatever I'm going to do to take care of the people in the audience who. Suffered a really major trauma. You know what I mean? And that's not to say that no one ever should or anything. But just it's it's hard to. You you take on a big task doing that responsibly. I we put a trigger warning on the front of our episode because of the sexual content of particularly the first segment, but at the same time, it's like you're doing into service to people if you're protecting them, you know, I don't wanna helicopter parent my audience. I had a woman after show come up to me crying after a miscarriage joke. I was doing a show the comedy cellar. And she wasn't criticizing the joke. She just like, she's like, you know, I work in like obstetrics, and I she just cried. And then I'm sitting next to show who was like don't put your baggage on me. She's way tougher than I am like, but I think, you know, you don't want people to feel bad. But at the same time like it's not my job to my job. I mean, some comics job is to make people laugh and feel good. That's not why I do what I do. I like people to think like people to feel challenged. I like people to kind of learn. Learn and hopefully, modify their behavior if their behavior is damaging I feel like in comedy there is there are unique vulnerabilities for women. That's not to say that vulnerability in general is unique to comedy. But there are unique vulnerabilities, you know, everyone is an independent contractor. There's no HR. There's no HR. There are many more men than women. Actually, there are many more men that you see than women. But when they start out there a lot of women in the beginning rungs of comedy, and for many reasons, they don't continue where they try to continue, and they don't get the same upper -tunities, but it is a myth that. There are like like if you see a show at a club and has nine men and women that is not in any way, Representative of the amount. Of women trying to at least work in comedy. She wants I tweeted at I had a an acquaintance who I followed on Twitter who was regular at one of the big comedy clubs here in Los Angeles and would retreat lineups when he was on them. And you know, the they great comics, you know, these are this is Los Angeles where you move to work in store. Yeah. And I would look at the lineups. And I'd be like this is this is a fourteen person lineup with one woman or the comedy store, and it's hard for us to call the stuff out because we wanna get booked there. But yeah. Clubs many clubs, especially in New York and LA do not show lineups that reflect the gender composition of of people working in the industry. I tweeted I tweeted at them. I might have retweeted might of quote, tweeted them. But I tweeted at them like that's fourteen comics and two women like you can do better than that. And. I am not joking. They tweeted at me a picture of a flyer for like ladies night. It's like separate but equal. Yeah. Think that's a suitable response. In public. I just I couldn't I couldn't believe it was real. This was not. In two thousand two this past year. The New York comedy festival I had a flier out that was like, maybe all men and one woman on the festival like in one of the orig- like the initial kind of pushes PR pushes for the festival and. Yeah, I mean, you wanna joke like, oh, New York men's comedy festival looks great. But again like we are freelance people, and we are trying to just get booked. So it's hard to be outspoken about this stuff. Why I really appreciate your work. I'm I'm grateful for what you've done. I'm trying. I'm trying behind to to everyone. You got. Jennifer, even thank you for coming on. It was really nice to get to talk to you. Jennifer, you can watch both of her soft focus specials at adult swim dot com. They are really breath. Check. That's the end of another episode of bullseye Boza is recorded at maximum fund dot org world headquarters. Overlooking MacArthur park in Los Angeles, California producer, Kevin just a car commercial shot from one of the offices in our building. It truly is a drink to live here. What we call Tinseltown. The show is produced by speaking device phones producers, Kevin Ferguson. Hey, soussan Brosio is our associate producer. We get help. Casey O'Brien are interstitial music is by DJ w aka Dan, Wally thanks for sharing with us, Dan. Our theme song is called huddle formation by the band the goatee team they and their label. Memphis industries, provided it to us. Our thanks to them before you go. We have fifteen years of this show going back to the days when it was called the sound of Young America. Literally, hundreds of interviews. They're almost all archive. You can find them all on our website at maximum fund dot org. You can also find many of them on our YouTube channel, especially the recent ones we put we put them each up. It's as we make them they're easy to share and listen to their you can also find us on Facebook and on Twitter, you can just search for bullseye with Jesse thorn at bullseye eye on Twitter. That's about it. Just remember all great. Radio hosts have signature sign off. Bullseye with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR.
Comedian Kate Willett on the Craziest Day of her Entire Career
"This message comes from. Npr's sponsor nerdwallet a personal finance website and app. That helps people make smarter. Money moves have new money goals this year. Whether you wanna use credit card points to plan a family vacation abroad wants it safe or take advantage of low mortgage rates to refinance and save for your child's education. Nerdwallet is the best place to shop financial products to make your 2021 money goals happen discover and compare the smartest credit cards mortgage lenders and more at nerdwallet dot com bullseye with jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by npr. It's bulls eye. I'm jesse thorn time now for a segment. We call the craziest day of my entire career. I mean i think explanation wise. The name of the segment does a lot of the heavy lifting. But it's when we talk with people in the biz as we like to call it and get them to dish on the craziest day and their careers next up. Is kate willett. Kate is a stand up comic a very funny one. Her 2017 debut glass gutter was one of our favourite albums in the last few years. Here at max von. She's followed that album up with an audible. Original series called dirtbag anthropology. It's a deeply personal and very funny. Show where. Kate talks plainly about her life story. Losing partners to divorce to death about what. It's like to be queer comic it features interviews with folks like margaret w. kamau bell and her own father and like the rest of cates work. It is very very funny when we asked. Kate will at about the craziest day in her entire career. She came prepared with one. That was absolutely bonkers. I'll take it from here. I'm kate willett and this is the craziest day of my entire career. So i need to start this story a little bit before it starts and by a little bit before it starts all the way back. When i was three years old. I grew up in the northridge area which is right outside of la in the san fernando valley. And i went to a super tiny christian preschool and i had a best friend in preschool. Who i'm gonna call for this segment nora. Nora was like the love of my preschool life. We were inseparable and then her family moved to florida. I was absolutely devastated. And this was the first time in my life as a small child that i ever experienced like grief loss. I was just. I was so sad that nora was not going to be my kindergarten class. Reassure me you know that we could keep in touch with ladders and and we did Nor and i wrote back and forth like pen pals with three year old handwriting and her family sent newsletters in my family sent newsletters and we did this till we were about eight days after a while. It just kind of felt like you know there wasn't really a friendship anymore. But i still really missed her because there was just something about that connection even though we were so so tiny that it felt like we were sisters or something and my whole life. I wondered what happened to her. It was the thing that kind of continued to weigh on me for some weird reason. Because i know these people who had you know their best friends since they were little kids and i felt like that was the person that she was supposed to be for me fast. Forward like years and years later i ended up leaving the la area and it went up to college at uc. Berkeley stayed in the bay area. After that and Eventually a couple of years. After graduation. I started trying. Stand up comedy and for a while is performing like every single day multiple times per night in just the worst locations like i used to perform comedy all the time at this laundromat but there was this one place that i it was a really popular location to perform in san francisco and it was kind of a cool bar It had sort of like european vibes and I hosted a monthly show there with one of my friends. And i'm just doing this. And i talk about in my set being from the l. a. area and this woman comes up to me after the show and she's like you know. I noticed that your name is kate will. Is there any chance to you. Used to go by. Katie will i. i was like yeah She looked familiar. There's something really familiar about her. She was like. I think that we might know each other. And then all of a sudden. I knew who it was and i was like. Oh my god are you nora. And she's like yeah. And i was like that. She's here and we both cried and hugged and it was like it was just. It was an amazing amazing experience to see her. We connected really well You would turns out that we really really similar lives. We have both been in long term relationships with women and then had Gotten divorced from those women and then we were both kind of dating around san francisco. We had a lot in common. We both were teachers for awhile. Esl teachers and it was. It was so crazy. 'cause it was like oh my god was this my long lost soul mate like did i just meet somebody that they re meet somebody. I was just born to know there was something that i took to me about that experience that i was like. Wow i'm on the right track in my life. I must be meant to be a comedian. Just living my destiny because otherwise why would this weird. Synchronicity have happens. And we started hanging out all the time. We're texting we're talking and it was. It was so great it felt like we were picking up from where we left off when we were literally three years old and she started coming to. My comedy shows a lot. And i had a really big crush on this comedian. You know i just really really really liked him And it was sort of reciprocated but he also was he and a lot of mixed feelings about dating another comic. Whatever we talked about it you know it was pretty clear that we were not going to date. I had completely accepted that. But i poured my heart out to norah about this whole situation. Because i was like she wasn't involved in the comedy world per se so she felt like okay. I can definitely talk to her about all this stuff then. I found out like a couple of months later that she had been seeing this guy behind my back the whole time and like not telling the truth about it which is really weird. Friend thing to do And after that our friendship kind of like it kind of faded. We talked again a few years later but it was just. It was just really weird because for second it seemed like it was going to be this beautiful reunion and then it turned out that it was like. Oh my gosh this is. This is one of the worst friends. I've had in a long time. I think what happens kind of looking back. In retrospect is maybe we were too similar to be compatible as friends like the compatibility that we felt when we were little tiny kids. That was real. We really did have a lot in common. Which was like very exciting is a three year old. Because it means that you both like to play with the same barbie dolls and you know you're brilliant in the little mermaid but when you're an adult having that kind of similarity to another person means that you want to like hook up with the same people you know which creates a lot of pain and you know like i felt like i had this feeling after that all happened. Like oh man. I don't want someone who is similar to me to be in my life. I want to be the person that's similar to me in my life. I don't i don't need anybody else. Creating the same kind of chaos that. I create exactly. I'm here for another kind of chaos. Kate willett her new audible. Original series is called dirtbag anthropology. It's equal parts memoir exploration of masculinity and comedy record. You can listen to that through audible. Kate also co hosts the political comedy. Podcast reply guys which you can check out wherever you download podcasts. That's the end of another episode of bullseye. Bullseye is created in the homes of me and the staff of maximum fund in and around greater los angeles california. Where my son. This week figured out to get his car. Do the loop the loop. He's gotta make the track a little shorter. our show is produced. By speaking into microphones. Our producers kevin ferguson. He soussan brosio in jordan. Cowling are associated producers. We get help from casey. O'brien are interstitial. Music is by dan. Walli also known as dj w our theme song is by the go team. Thanks very much to them and to their label memphis industries for sharing it with us. You can also keep up with the show on twitter. Facebook and youtube. Post all our interviews there. I think that's about it. Just remember all great. Radio hosts have a signature. Sign off bullseye. With jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by npr.
Maura Tierney & Michael Kupperman
"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from answer net essentials from Comcast. Connecting more than six million low income people to low cost high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more. Now, they're ready for anything. Well, if I with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org. In is distributed by NPR. I'm Jesse thorn, the longest time Michael Kupperman didn't know that much about his dad meeting new his dad, he was around his whole childhood. He knew his dad went to Cambridge and Harvard. He knew that it one point his dad was kind of famous. He was a quiz kid regular game show contestant in the early days of TV but beyond the basics. His dad didn't really talk about that. So one day Michaels in college starting to figure out who he is he falls in love with comedy and with one comedy act in particular, the Marx brothers, and I was reading a book about the Marx brothers, and I turn the page, and there was my father with Chico. And that was intense shock because he was he was not a person who is very into comedy. And he certainly I think partly discouraged me from having a career. That was closer to comedy because he considered it frivolous to so to realize that he had performed with some of the greatest comedians of all time was kind of a hard pill to swallow its bullseye. Coming up artist and writer, Michael cover men talks about the fascinating, sometimes painful journey of discovery that went into his new graphic memoir. All the answers. He spent years digging through archives learning stuff about his father that he'd never met. So I was aware that he had been famous, but I don't think I really understood until I started to work on this book that quality of his fame. Just exactly how he'd been famous and how motion it was both for the people who were fascinated by him and for him personally. But before Michael cover meant more at Tierney star of ER, NewsRadio the affair and the new film beautiful. Boy, she'll talk about all those projects. Plus why she starred alongside Jerry Orbach in the nineteen Ninety-one smash hit dead women in law. Jared. Post to be like a spoof of like Brian upon type. Supposed to be that. But it I listen, I've we we do things we some. And finally, I'll tell you about sly stone's last rate album. That's all coming up on bullseye. Let's go. It's bulls eye. I'm Jesse thorn. I'm talking with more at Tierney this week. I couldn't be more excited about it. You know, her from her time on the hit drama ER. She played Abby. She's currently on the show time series, the affair, and this is something very close to my heart. She also starred on NewsRadio as Lisa the am bishops reporter producer, look, I just I just think it would be better. If we didn't speak for while. That's all that's gonna become awkward thing as we work together one. Well, there's other methods of communicating besides speaking and do you mean sex because I thought we stopped doing that? Memos memos in Phnom that's absurd. Absurd or not you've got to give me some space for a while. He's currently starring in an acclaimed drama that just hit theatres it's called beautiful. Boy. It's a story about the complex nuanced and frustrating nature of addiction. It stars Timoteo. Shallow may as Nick a college age kids struggling with a drug habit. Mora plays. Karen, Nick step. Mom, beautiful. Boy is as unique as it is realistic addiction is a complicated thing it brings some people closer together drives others way has ups and downs. And it's never over. Let's hear a little bit from the movie Nick's father. David played by Steve Carell, just got a call from his ex wife Vickie in LA, their son. Nick played by Timothy shallow may went missing. Again, David is getting ready to fly out to help find him in this scene. He's talking about it with Morris character. Karen, how do we even know didn't LA? I mean, he could be in San Francisco you can be. It could be in Mexico for all we know. I need to go. But I need you to stay. Vicki can't handle it. You don't care about Vicky. This isn't about victim it. Why don't you just relax and try to be reasonable? What you'll be reason? I n being read that's reasonable. No. It's not. How can I be my son is out there somewhere what he's doing? I don't know. I don't know. You can't. Mor tierney. Welcome to bulls. I'm so glad to have your show except happy to be here. That's funny to hear that. It's like so emotionally overwhelming that there is it's difficult to have any other reaction to outside of context. It's funny. It's funny. I was such a so long ago that we did it. And it's so funny that he doesn't he told her to relax Zoete says relax with you. When someone tells you to relax and your perfectly justified upset. I feel like the movie was real ringer for me. And I think one of the reasons is that I find it incredibly emotionally challenging to deal with unresolvable problems. Not in the sense that you know, obviously, it's hard to resolve unresolvable problems. But even a small thing that can't find its way to an end will really eat me up and in some ways that's kind of what the movie's about. Yeah. I mean, do you mean in life or or when you lock things? Oh, yes, both. Yes. Yeah. That that's what I was drawn to about the film is how many times Timmy's character fails, a Nick in real life failed which I found ultimately hopeful because he had to try for many years, and he was successful sometimes for a year or year and a half or two years, and then he would relapse and I feel like the movie never judges. The relapses and doesn't even look at them as failure. He just starts over. And I found that ultimately hopeful kind of message that sometimes it's gonna take a long time. And it's okay. If you keep at it, you know, so in some sense it was. Was all about what was the thing. They said, I'm sorry. I think resolvable. Yeah. I mean in real life. You know, it did was all itself but dramatically is frustrating to the movies. Really? It's not the easiest movie in the world to watch. You play the stepmother to the addicted person that this film, and that is a very particular kind of relationship. How did you think about being a person who has two young kids of her own in the household and a husband that she loves very much and a step child who? Is both part of your family. And this like, you know, terrifying. Disrupting Moore's well, I spoke to Karen several times. Who is extremely forthcoming. She funny. She was very Frank very honest. I think he was first and foremost part of the family. I mean that other scary part was there, but always for her. She met him. And he was I think four or five and she said they met and they sat down Cairns painter. And they just started painting and drawing together, and she said immediately, they pondered and she had a deep sense of gratitude to Nick, even when he was four for opening up to her, and and she really was sort of in awe of what his sort of amazing charisma, and again there was a gratitude that he let her in. And so they were very very close. I think when things started to go haywire. Hair? I was deep conflict for her. And I think it took until it got to extremes before she had to start viewing him as other. It took a lot because he was her son for all intents and purposes, it's just one of her children started becoming slightly dangerous to her other children. I think that's how she viewed it not her stepson got. So her other kids are in trouble. It was a deep conflict for her. It was like, you know, he was her son. I want to shift gears and talk a little bit about your life and the rest of your career, you grew up in Boston, and your father was a city councilman. In fact, he was city council president time and candidate for mayor at one point. The president sick five times six times. It was like a lot for time. He he I ran for city council when you were a kid like you were in school, right? Yeah. I think I was like seven or eight or something like that. What did you think about it at the time? Oh, I loved it. We had the best time because Boston is a political city. And we would hang out at headquarters. I mean, I was young the first time really really young. But then he ran I think every two years. So by the time, I was ten or twelve or fourteen like. We canvassed dropping Lee mood. Call it doing drops with leaflets for him and do phone calls from headquarters and just hang out at headquarters. And like there was so many colorful people that came in. And so me interesting. Crazy kind of Boston political hardcore characters from you were an adult you were a young adult by van where were you already acting professionally? I was I mean the plan was I was going to go back to Boston. I had moved LA just for the summer. I graduated college. And I was a bunch of my friends moved out here. So I was just going to come out for a couple of months and waitress and hang out with them. And then go back and September, and we're my dad's campaign, and I and I got a job which I wasn't really expecting to do what was the job student exchange. TV movie, I played a mean cheerleader. You don't usually play me. I don't it's like the only real character work. I've ever. I mean, it's all characteristic. But yeah, I was I mean, I mean in the end she turned out. Okay. The occasional scold. Maybe did you have a good disapproval tick yet? But yes, I was the the Gerald Geralina. I actually I pulled something that as I mean cheerleader. No, it's worse than that problem. Women lingerie. Yes. Heck? Yeah. No. It's got the internet. Now anything from it, are you? Yes. So in this scene from the? Film dead women in lingerie. Molly the launch rate designer played by my guest. More attorney is being interrogated by a police officer second immigrant seamstress in lingerie model who worked for the same factory as Molly had been murdered and Bartoli. The owner of the factory is sitting observing the back and forth. That was Jerry rate. Bartoli was played by the late. Great, Jerry Orbach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He was great. I don't know. What the hell? He was doing. Okay. Let's shouldn't surprise. You girls were illegals. It come to the states to make money, and let's face. It prostitution is a pretty easy way to pick up some extra cash. I knew both Marsha and Sylvia. And there's no way that either one of them would have been involved in anything like that. And I'm sorry. But I think your way out of line volley. Please look the fact is the only leads we have are both girls worked here, and they were both killed and found in the lingerie you design, I know, but maybe I'll hold on little lady let me finish little lady. We've got some kind of Kook running around out there. We have that happen. A lot in this part of town. Maybe he's finished. Maybe he'll try it. Again. We'll just have to wait and see. I don't have a whole hell of a lot to go on. Wait and see. That's it. Just in case just tell you girls to take care. Thanks for your time. Okay. Okay. Don't start up with me. All right. But he's not gonna do anything. What do you want him to do? He's not superman. There's the late great, Jerry Orbach. That's a funny. Hey, he had his character. Drink Pepco Bismillah all the time when he put strawberry quick in the milk the pink. Yeah. Nice. I think feel like that movie. Maybe did not come out until it came out on DVD years later. I think the one redirect it was an accountant. I'm not even kidding you. And what does that weird kind of weird have accent doing? I don't even. Oh my gosh. That was I that's really funny. I guess he was on law and order by nineteen Ninety-one. But I was going to say like at the very least you're talking nineteen Ninety-one that it came out. I don't think he was was he I don't know. Well, at the very least job Jerry Orbach from the fantastic's, right? He was Jerry Orbach for sure. But I don't know if had I I don't know. I mean, I think it was supposed to be like a spoof of like Brian depalma type. Who's supposed to be that? But it I listen, I we all we I we we do things sometimes. You're listening to bulls eye. I'm Jesse thorn. My guest is more tyranny. She's the star of Showtime's the fair and the new film beautiful boy, which is out. Now. How did you get the part on NewsRadio? I district for it. Someone is one of I don't know it was sort of amazing to get. But I do remember it was me and one other actress who I forget who it was at the time, but they flew us both out and we both read with Dave Foley. Like we both. We went into the studio or the network. I don't know was the table read was that day. So that doesn't often happen that both of or hadn't happened to me. Both of the actresses are there and sort of she went in. And I went in whatever order it was. And then we both went back to these little trailers, and then like Paul came in and was like, oh, you're staying. So then we just did the table read in like an hour or something after that. So it's really fast. I realize like I did, you know that was the stakes when you showed up like did, you know that in two hours, you were either going to be on television program or not. Yes, I did know. Yeah. I was really nervous. But Dave fully was really great. He he was just. Great. And and also the director, of course, Jimmy boroughs, like we got together and somebody's trailer and sort of rehearsed. I I don't know if they did with the other actors, they probably did was really great, and it probably easier to not have to worry about it that much like I got the job. And then we were doing it. I wanna play a scene from the pilot. So it's a show about radio station, and Dave is played by Dave Foley. And he's there for his first day at the radio station as news director. And he learns that the current news director Ed has not yet been fired. And so mo- most everybody thinks Dave is the new sports reporter. So he follows Lisa who is the star reporter who's played by my guest more Tierney into a recording booth in the newsroom, she's working on a story. She's kind of paying attention to him. And she wanted to be the news director, and she. Assumes that Jimmy James, the squid Jillian air owner of the station is planning tire her as the news director, and Dave is trying to figure out what she knows and how to break the news to our how do you think I should handle this? Oh, just through your job. Well, and you'll be fine. Because when Ed goes Jimmy's gonna make me news director. Is this is this something that Jimmy has told, you know, but nobody else around here has been putting in twelve hour days nights and weekends for three years and Jimmy notices believe me. Lisa Miller, WNYC X, NewsRadio in Chinatown. Excuse me. Lisa lisa. Have you ever? Have you ever heard the expression that the journeys its own reward? That's very profound. Sports guy. Let's so Paul journey has its own board. I really love NewsRadio. And I think one of the great pleasures of the show is watching you and Dave Foley working together because you are both. I very rare type of comic actor, which is a funny straight, man. More the straight, man.
Norsemen creators Jon Iver Helgaker and Jonas Torgersen
"Support for NPR and the following message come from Dulles International Airport with the highest on time takeoff percentage of any airport on the east coast. I a d means I'm already departing more at fly Dulles dot com slash fast. It's bull's eye. Jesse thorn a heads up before we get into this episode. There is some talk in this interview about sexual assault, which is one of the subjects of the comedy TV show Norseman which were about to talk about there's nothing graphic. But there is discussion of how it is used in comedy in a sort of abstract sense. So if that's a sensitive subject for you be aware that it does come up. Anyway, my guests the creators of the TV show Norseman John ever, hell Gaiger and Jonas Torgersen. Have you heard of Norseman? I have been watching a lot of it lately. It is very funny. The premise is pretty simple, basically, so simple. You can sum it up in two words. Funny Vikings, but it's not like goofy or anything. In fact, it's entirely deadpan. It set around the year seven ninety AD it's filmed in the wilderness of Norway shot ceim. Tena sleep in English and Norwegian they wrote it in Norwegian and translated it to English and made the same actors do it in both languages the Vikings on the show pellet. They fight amongst themselves. They sacrifice slaves. They also argue about I guess, you might say boardroom stuff only it's about who's going to be in charge of the village at one point they decide to make their village, a cultural capital by building a monumental art piece. It has some of the absurdity of Monty python? But it is played as dry as a bone like maybe the office or something like that. The violence, though, is brutally real like game of thrones. Real and the production values are actually pretty impressive at the heart of the show is the fact that they can seem Madera Nettie right over the horizon. A new way of doing things basically pillaging villages getting into long boats and murdering a bunch of northern English. People doesn't pay like it used to. And you know, their squabbles. Between the clans and villages and. You know, at this is like sacrificing slaves just wasn't always so complicated. You know, would just not to cook up your plans or anything. But are you one hundred percent certain that it's necessary to sacrifice me? Yes. I mean, ritual sacrifice isn't a perfect science. But I feel really confident about this. Okay. Okay. Just sacrificed to slaves already. You don't wear. That the gods are going to think that you're trying too hard that it's too much every luxury thinking don't get me wrong. I think is great that there's a slim bother getting vote. But if you don't mind, I think just move. Of course, no point in regretting it later. I mean sacrifices and executive reversible. Okay. Okay. Thank you. There you go. Guys. Welcome to bullseye. It's great to have you on the show. Thank you. Thank you. Were you intimidated at the prospect of making jokes in the context of mass murder? I mean the things that the Vikings. Did he I don't know. We haven't gotten that many reactions really because we were probably or we have my jokes about the pillaging raping and homosexuality. Yeah. But everything put everything is based on reality in the Viking age. So we haven't like our take them homosexuality. You were it was not there were loss loss that was you have if you were the active part, you were you were the that was illegal now, the active part was legal. Yeah. So just at least when when we found even found that we found a lot of stuff if you're allowed to get divorced. How you know a lot. Facts, you we could base our the whole, you know, script around like home gong the where he that was that was a law. You could like go over to somebody and say, I challenge you, and then I mean for the sake of our radio audience when you said where he you're making a chop them in half. Gesture. Is a plot point right at the beginning of the first season where one of the characters is coming back from a big, you know, pillaging adventure overseas, and is kind of regretting that he doesn't feel like he has a home or a settled life when he comes back from this thing that he's so good at and someone tells me, and you should really have some ambition and at home as well as overseas, and and he so he decides to challenge the guy with the biggest farm to a fight to the death. So that he can take his farm and wife. Yeah. Is loosely based on like reality. That was by was in order to read something could do. So I don't know if anyone anyone did that. But in theory, that's that was that was the law. So so we we like finding these kind of nuggets that we can use on the series. And and that's pretty funny though. Yeah. Let's actually I we have a clip from the home section of the show. So. Basically, the sky Arvid the guy who is so good at pillaging has come back, and he challenges amend Ovar who's the biggest farmer in town to a home gang, which is this ritual fight to the death. And let's listen. What? Gung? Yes. And then the winner can take over the loosers property why fun and stuff because that's how the reussir isn't it to love her chief. No. There is right. But you don't own anything. But that's how the rule star. How would be stupid not to take advantage of it? But I built up everything with my own and from nothing. I really respect for that. But still I hereby challenge to home gun. Something that. Vince incredible Skillet murdering. And the contrast with sort of sweet disposition. Yeah, he's a little bit of a shy. Yeah. It was it's been also just playing with at off with probably be the worst modern person. Yeah. But he's the best Viking person and autumn his probably the best modern, man. Right. And it's just fun to take that period of time seriously, and and use those characters for just turn it around and making them like they are modern people in this. I don't know. Medieval world out there in modern people in the medieval world, and and they are just stuck with the in the boundaries of of the Viking, h I think that's it's a lot of fun. The jokes in the show are as brutal as in any comedy show. I've ever watched. There's really intense graphic violence. Yeah. There are a lot of jokes about rape. Did you think about how you wanted to do that? When you decided to make show about a world where those things were common realities. It's defined. What's funny in those angles? I mean, we had to address rape, and we had to dress pillage, and we had to dress murderer and brutality because if not we not making Viking show. I mean, if we're going to meet some coming ground of what you know about Vikings that that needed to be addressed all the way. So the question was really how to make it funny. And I think we one of the first things we wrote was when they come back in. I they come back from pillaging, and the are warrior goddess is there and autumn comes up, and and and she has been raping on this trip, and she's bragging about that. And her her husband is like was that necessary. And she's like, of course, that's what you do when you're out pillaging. What what do you expect? So any turn it around? He wouldn't be funny. If it was the guy saying, it would it works because she's saying it, you know, it's yeah. I was shocked. To learn. How successful the show is in Norway. Not because I didn't think it deserves to be successful. But simply because that level of intensity is something that is not for everyone. And it's a show. That's being watched by something. Like, I don't know. It was like a third or half of Norway is is that are the are the comedy conditions that different in Norway. I think so I think so no one ever reacted to any of the pillage ripping jokes, really Norway. I don't think it was. We thought we would get a lot more. Yeah. Attention for that. And to be we were like when we were filming. We're like we'll you gotta have to sit in a panel somewhere to to answer for this somewhere along the line. It's you know, it's it's the part. I think it's because the whole package is is what it is. And it wouldn't work in a modern show at all, of course, because it's not really funny at all. But it's it's just the absurdity. And the our goal was to take that Viking age seriously and do it properly, and and since all the graphic violence is because if we made that funny like month pyden funny way chops off the legs, and they're still fighting on that would be a completely different show. So what we said to the costume designers, and to the set designers into everyone is that everything has to look like we're doing game of thrones servings that's the premise for everything. Because if it doesn't look like that none of the jokes will work we'll finish up with John and Jonas the writers of Norseman in just a bit after a quick break. Did you know that at one point skateboarding was illegal in Norway ni-? Did I tales of skateboard smuggling coming up on bullseye for maximum, fun dot org and NPR? This message comes from NPR sponsor, squarespace square spaces the all in one platform to build an online presence and run your business. Create your company's website using customizable, layouts along with features including ecommerce launch in Haliti, and mobile editing and squarespace offers. Built-in? Search engine optimization go to squarespace dot com slash NPR for a free trial. When you're ready to launch us the offer code NPR to save ten percent off your first purchase of website domain. Julia Ron here. Don't miss my chat. With Greta Lee, you know, her from Russian doll sleep baby per day. The they may be talking about New York comedy Bashan and her own HBO deal this week on it's been a minute from NPR. It's bowls. I'm Jesse thorn. I'm here with Jonas Torgersen and John Ivor. Hell geico. They created and run. The Norwegian TV show Norseman. It's a bone dry sitcom set in the Viking age. You can watch it now on Netflix. Let's hear another scene from an Norseman. So a character named or is filling in his chieftain while his brother all of is away on raids, and or is kind of a joke to the other villagers is sort of. He's just a little dopey and he's very bad at being a Viking like killing in stuff. He's also easing either in love with the arts or in love with the idea of being in love with the arts, maybe so arms brother, and and the whole crew of come back from this big rating trip. They're gonna have a big celebration and reunion after the pillaging and arm says, maybe then. Everybody should drink some meat at his place before heading out to the party, like a pre party get together thing and everybody else is ambivalent at best about the prospect. Actually, the votes colored greet to get together for the. Who else will need for that comets reminiscence? I just got home if you moments ago local reminisce about in those moments we're going to reminisce about when I got there first moments to repeal John stuff on this. That couldn't hurt him was floor on the woke it can even be my own chair because he's always say that there aren't enough seats yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think it would be very crowded if people start bringing own chairs. No, I can can you give outside and just talk to the guards. Go to the toilets and stuff like that. That'd be okay with it. I think maybe hurt some say three to one loan. Yeah. That will not be. Ruined. In stone stone stone, are you have to respect it or else. It doesn't mean anything. Very like, I mean. Of course, they did stuff like that. You know, kept people out and it's in the region rhyme. No one knows where one is from. Maybe it's from the Viking h. Also is then also is an example of something that has obviously been translated from Norwegian into English for the English language version of the show. It really has. No meaning. No one else can come. Exactly that. Just when you're you're at school, and you're dividing up the football teams. And that's you know, that's the end of it. Ormes character. You you referred to the weird laws in Viking times about homosexuality Ormes character is rather desperately closeted. Yeah. We're not sure yet. I mean, he's he's he's open for everything. He's just opened for life. And I think mostly or is about his lonely, and he's been left out all his life. Say doesn't really know anything that's kind of our take on it. So he agree. Your agree. Yeah. He'll take anything comes along. Really? If not just like in sexual every everyone that shows him, some kind of kindness. He's on board with that is on board with that at once 'cause he seen desperate lack of being included. Really? Were you worried about making a character who's hiding gay pornography? Be that pathetic. Like there are times late in the first season where I was like, I'm I think these guys are making fun of the homophobia of Viking times. But also times when I thought like God this guy. So pathetic that I and he's also so like he doesn't have the qualities that the Vikings value of masculinity, and violence and all these things that are coded as heterosexual. So I I I got uncomfortable with it was like come on like, yeah. But he he's really a modern guy in. In most. I mean, he's he's the most modern character. There is in the show. So he's his values are much closer to to us now, and it's comfortable with the arts and these comfortable with all these other stuff that's not a Viking. So kind of that's the approach to it. You know, sort of what what makes him so ineffectual in that world are the same things that would that would make him the like one of the only characters you might actually wanna hang out with in real life the twenty century. Yeah. We talked about home home-gorwn, the the the Viking the Viking law that if you defeated someone in combat you were entitled to their in this ritual combat you're entitled to their lands and family and so on and so forth. Everything they had where there are other things that you learned about Viking culture and the way and Viking law that led directly to the. Show in the way that that did. Yeah. The at the stoop probably remember the first seen in season one. Where do you old the guys those who are past forty to jump from cliff? Go next. Thinking. The worst thing that could happen to me if I don't do the stoop. I mean what's worse than being crushed? I just I was just ordered to take you up here. I mean, you're supposed to do the jump, and and spare your family's burdening that is supporting you in your old age. Yeah. But I'm only forty seven. I mean, it's not that old. I'm just going to skip the whole thing. Okay. Yep. Gonna jump eater. Is this kind of thing? Anyone else won't judge? Komo fellows. I mean, it's just not very tempting. Okay. I mean, I'm just a slave. I can't make you do anything. You don't wanna do? But. Could you could you just stay away from him? So that people don't understand that. You didn't do that. That's you know, based on it's based on the on the saga for they. They're not quite sure what it meant. But the they have found like there's mountain cliffs there where you where they threw off. Unwanted babies or you know, it was kind of like. I think at the stupid, which what it translates to is really to to get rid of the burdens of of of the society. And and in Viking culture, the old people wanted to die in battle. And the worst thing you could do was to to die out, which is pretty funny to die in your bed with your family around your that was like, then he goes straight down. So so the so the like the number two thing to do is if you can't die in battle is to jump off a cliff for your for your friends when I asked on Twitter what I should ask you guys fan of your show said can you ask them about blacksmith thing? It seems like they get most of it pretty close to right and not going to ask you about blacksmith things civically. You have a lot to say about like. But like, I wonder when you're making this kind of show, and it's this ridiculous. Whether you still get the kind of intense nerd feedback about this that you would get if you were, you know, if you were making glory about the American civil war, and everybody's like, well, he's wearing a he's wearing a set of seventy second regimen cap should be wearing a seventieth regiment. You know what? I mean, we got a lot because we used or we worked with walking clubs. They're very. Yeah. Extras, and they're not very keen on the portraying stuff that was not like they like they think it was a thousand years ago. So so there was kind of about because you know, they didn't use that much leather more linen clothes callers, just supposed to be more colorful than we portray. But. We wanted to be close to liking some game of thrones style because that's what we was image. Cool and not like play, you know, which is with a with a lot of colors. We wanted to have like tone of the show to be rainy and to be Brown to dark and to be gritty and dirty and some of the same blacksmiths. You know, the stuff we had we had quality control. I had to look at least within a period. I don't know if it's seven nine exactly what between seven hundred year thousand. I think I were pretty close pretty close. So the place we we've we film this on location on the actual Viking farm where there we we weren't allowed to lift a stone in the ground because you find sword there because they they like the X great every year they allowed to do another part. And it's been a Viking settlement there since since in for fifteen hundred years. So it's a proper Viking place where the Kiala GIS have built the houses we were using on the same ground that's been for fifteen hundred years, and you know, so this community that's been doing that with the archaeologists have been using findings to replicate all the things that we used in their houses. So. So I mean, we get a lot of of thumbs up from people that because it's accurate in a whole different way than Vikings. Yeah. I was going to say to the guys in the Viking clubs love you or hate you. I think it's a lot of love love related. Yeah. So let's kinda surprising mother. We'll take it. And also because to the beautiful thing about our extras, which is really added everything to the show because it's I mean, they know how to color of clothing, they know how to carve they know how to fix skins on animals, and so you could just put them to do stuff in the background of every scene, and they would do enough empty thing. Then not just extras walking around waiting for hand signal to look the other way. Again, you know, they had they had like we made a village they have their job in the village. Just do your stuff and are actors will do their stuff, and you know, so that helped for the whole like experience of liking town. Really, why did you guys kill so many of your characters? We can no I mean. So about the story the I mean, the the story is the boss, and if that works better for the story, that's what's gonna happen. And one of the characters were because he was committed to other projects. So so you have to speed through the mouth, but except from that was because the story. I mean, we hang out with a lot of the actors are friends of us somewhere like out of it. Which is is. You're and we like constantly on them with like if you don't do this for us. We're gonna you're gonna dine the first. So we like pushing them and the screwing with them arguing about who's going to bring dip to the party. You're going to fall into the trap a huge trap. The first day. When I was in northern Europe. A lot of people seem to be really into tacos Marta was very popular in Norway. Yes, they call it taco Friday because everyone eats tacos some Friday nights with the families TV is the thing. What is the taco in? We talk. Oh, Tuesdays here in the states because they both start with t- make sense, but what is constituted taco in Norway. It's not what I mean said bit like you have a talk here. But it's just more boring. Probably just like more than a week take on it. You wouldn't impress a Mexican person with our tacos at all tacos income to Norway until nineteen ninety one or something. So he said pretty with rollerblades with skateboard legal. I think it's only country in the world is something whereas it was not allowed to own a skateboard. No you had to smuggle them through Sweden to. Wow. Like getting Levi's in Soviet Russia. When we were kids. This is my mother worked SAS she was flying over and brought back skateboards. And I was like. You had getting selling scape? We're friends. It was crazy. They were like like coke. That's that is that is truly amazing. Guys. Thank you so much for coming on the show was so great to get to talk to you. Thank having. I've really loved watching the show. Thank you. Thank you. Jonas Torgersen and John ever hell Geico. Their show Norseman is absolutely one of the brutalises things. I have ever laughed up Rory Asli at can watch seasons. One and two right now on Netflix. We've come to the end of another episode of Boll time is recorded at maximum fund dot org world headquarters. Overlooking MacArthur park and beautiful, Los Angeles, California. We had swarms of painted lady butterflies outside of our window. This week was really remarkable site show is produced by speaking into microphones, our producer is Kevin Ferguson. Hey, soussan Broszio is our associate producer. We have helped from Casey O'Brien, our new production, fellow is Jordan cowling. Thank you. Jordan. Are interstitial music is by DJ w eight Dan Wally thanks to him for making that music for us. Our theme song is called huddle formation. It's by the band the go team they and their label. Memphis industries were nice enough to let us use. That are Hanks to them. Of course, you should go support that great band, and before you go I have been making this show for nine onto decades coming up onto decade. Almost every episode we've ever made his on our website maximum, fun dot org. You can also find us on YouTube where these interviews that you heard today, and almost all of our interviews for the past few years are up and easily sharable and searchable just search for bullseye with Jesse thorn on YouTube. We're also on Facebook and Twitter at bullseye and Facebook dot com slash bullseye with Jesse thorn. I guess that's about it. Just remember all great radio host sevice signature sign off. Bullseye with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR.
Bootsy Collins, Funk Legend
"Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR. It's Bullseye Jesse Thorn this week we're taking a look back at two bullseye interviews with stone cold music legends. To music legends WHO HAPPENED TO BE FROM CINCINNATI Ohio. This show started airing first up Buzi Collins from two thousand eleven boot Zoa the pride of the net. One, a pop music's greatest bass players legendary for his contribution to James Brown and the J. Bees into parliament funke delic and to his own lucy's rubber rubberband into many many many years of hits. He's the owner of one of the heaviest bay sounds in the world and one of the architects a funk earlier this summer he dropped a new single called stars. It features Dr Cornell West Steve Jordan Bela fleck and many many more. It's part of a fundraiser for the musicares cove. Nineteen Relief Fund put on by the Grammy's less. As a people we have crawled. The Circle is pretty. With. Take it for granted. and. We forget all the seas. Bucci Collins Welcome. To Balzac what's going on the hour I'm doing good man, how `Bout you? Do really good man and You know just getting back out here on the road and doing thing and It's it's coming connecting with the people. Again is is a good thing. I want to ask you about learning to play the Bass I know that your somewhat older brother who you played with for many many years was a guitar player. Was it that sort of classic situation where your brother got the glamour spot and you ended up playing the bass well, N- not exactly. It was kind of more like He played guitar and I wanted to play guitar as well. So I started off playing guitar, but one night his bass player couldn't make a GIG and I wanted to play with him so bad it didn't matter what I play. You know I could've played drums. I could've played piano which I had no idea how to do at the time I would've told him let me do it. You know. So it really didn't matter and we did as GIG. And I was playing basin. You know it just felt so right. You've always said that you wanted to play bass the way that Jimi Hendrix play guitar yes I. Wonder Both at how you ended up feeling that way and also whether your brother being a being almost of another generation. But also being a guitarist was on the same wavelength you well. I probably not But you know that's kind of came in at a time where. Jimmy was like, God. I. Mean I just felt like. Man This cat just not only musically but cosmic cosmetically just opened the whole world up to me. You know He made me see that I could. Not only Play you know all these wild things and all these different? Wow. Sounds that I'm here and. He showed me that I could even dress as crazy as I wanted to and and I always looked up to him for that Even when I was with James Brown sitting on the back of the bus, you know pop acid smoking weed and listening to Jimi Hendrix that wasn't allowed on James Brown bus. Where are you from? You know you don't do that but I did that and I wasn't doing it to be. snobby. Take this Dana on none of that. It was just that's what time it was, and that's where I was at and that's where my whole heart was it. When did you first meet James Brown in person? Dan, what's when? They were recording what year was that they were recording lick and stick what year was that that was sixty something. I, forget the exact year. Quick. and. When the ban took a break. In and I- rhythm section got a chance to play. I guess he was testing us to see. you know what what we felt like when him could you tell it was a test at the time. Oh no no not I didn't I didn't care what it was at the time. It was like man I, the opportunity to play for James Brown I mean you know. The. It didn't matter what it was. James Brown asked us to do this and if we had never got to play with James Brown that in itself probably would have been. Enough for me at that time, it was like it was just incredible. Don't. James Brown was. FAMOUS FOR HIS Incredible drive and affection ISM. Yeah. Maybe even bordered on madness. Yeah. Yeah I think you're right. I think it did border on madness because. Everytime we play a show you know he. He calls in the back room and say and. Just. Got It. Got The one. I mean every show we had to hear this you know and it was like we knew we were killing him. We knew that the people were just amazed that you know I sound and what was going on. You know at the show we know it. You know. And then he would call us back and tell us and I didn't realize US later that. It only made me WanNa practice. That much harder you know. US As a ban it made us want to get tight and play as tight as we possibly can. So all of what he was telling us. He was using reverse psychology on and we we didn't have a clue. You know it was more about you know this is James Brown telling us this. down. design. Check. Your. Right. They have the same in. Baseball that winning is the best. Chemistry Yeah. And I imagine the head part of what made you feel good about doing about working for a despotic ruler. Yeah. Was the fact that you were in a band that was. Undisputedly The best and untouched even since then and I wanted to know how to be an how how you get to be the best lighter. Note. I want to feel that I wanted to be a part of that. You know I wouldn't get in that from out there in the street that part would have to come from James Brown and I knew I knew I was with. Even at that young age and I wanted to get as much of it as I could. When did you realize that this huge sort of schism in your career? This huge breaking point. Was? An opportunity for you to pursue. Being the. Jimi Hendrix of the Bass Guitar. Why you know? I guess when it would've I happen. I didn't know what that thing you know we were so messed up that you know on the rat home about man can you believe we just you know when I plan with James? Brown anymore you know we own away home what we're gonNA tell Mama. You know that's like you know that was my initial thought like what am I going to tell Mama you know she? You know she just knows I'm out here just having. A good time with James Brown I'm GonNa be with Danes Brian. This is this is forever man and you're sending checks home to Yeah. Yeah. for the first time in my life I mean a real check you know and so you know we get home and I get through that phase of it. and then you know we get straight to rehearsing you know putting a ban back together and putting shows together and and and so you know that part you talking about get into the Jimi Hendrix phase of it I think kind of evolved. As the ban evolve we got what? George Clinton I think that was when I first realized. I can do this. Now this is the time to do this. It was in the perfect situation with the perfect freak. Know George himself who was. Now only behind it was instigating it. I gave to your any and everything. Did I could come up with and he was open to accept any matter of fact, he wanted to see what I had to bring to the table, and so that inspired me he allowed me to go on a studio an experiment. You know he didn't look at me strain when I start bringing pedals and hooking up debase to would. Be One of the experiment. You know it was like bring everything. You got because George Wilson. So he was the whole opposite of what Danes Rowan's. That was up for the down stroke by parliament one of the first songwriting collaborations between George Clinton and my guest basis Buzi Collins. It seems like. George Clinton's great revolution. was. that he brought in all these brilliant brilliant players. Yeah Notably. Among others Fred Wesley from. The JB's I mean. Gary Scheider yet. Well, actually I brought Fred and a macy's You know when I came 'cause we was with James Brown. I had always spoke with Fred and macy's about which I plan my band once I get it together and this that and the other and this issue a man you know because you know nobody really believe it you know. But when I got George and I called them and they was so sick and fed up with James. Brown. They was like we ready man we ready. You know what are you need us to do? They came straight to Detroit and they joined the mothership. It seems like the revolution really was. George Clinton realized he could be the guy who all of these other brilliant musicians. Hey why don't we try doing something crazy to here? Yeah. Well, you know what? It wasn't even about. George saying, Hey, let's try something crazy. He already had to crazy going on. It was just given us an outlet to be crazy and he would allow us to do any and everything we wanted to do and to have this kind of referee in your corner you know people just don't get that you either have no You can't do this and you can't do that got so many different rules and regulations that they really. Cut The musicians. Creativity, all George was the complete opposite. He was voting for your creativity. He was. You know he was like a a fan of your creativity. He wanted you to bring it off and he was rooting for you. One. Of the things. That's really amazing to me about. P funk when it really got rolling in the mid Seventies. Is that It was. It was so broad. Yeah. In the there were these there were these parliament records that were just like A heavy funky version, great radio music. Then there's these. There's these funke Delic records that are just the insane, right? And you've got a group and all the lady singers have a group and Fred Wesley has a group in everybody's making music together in all these different avenues. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, you know that was That was more of the the genius of Georgia's man. where he saw. He saw like Berry Gordy saw but only. It was like. His freak flag he just he just fluid not only fluid. He was a part of it and he was he was in and he was encouraging it and. His whole house was was what you got. This was Georgia's house. He had all of these different groups signed to these different major labels. These are not small labels. I mean major label companies that George you know. Hooked up and had US scientists. And that was incredible. More with Bucci Collins. Still to come after a quick break. The Star Sunglasses why Buzi Collins put him on its Bullseye for maximum fun dot org and NPR. Some days reading a bunch of headlines just isn't. Enough You need to look the new sink in. Consider this NPR's new Daily News podcast we can help you do that. Each day in about ten minutes, you can find out not just what happened but why and what it means. Consider this new episodes every weekday afternoon from NPR. I'm Riley Snarl I'm Sydney mcelroy and I'm Taylor smell and together we hosts a podcast called still buffering where we answer questions like, why should I not fall asleep I at Asunder Party. Be Fleet. Is it okay to break up with someone using emojis and sometimes we talk about? No, we don't know. Find out the answers to these important questions and many more on still buffering a sisters guide to teens through the ages I am a teenager and I was to butts but spots button. Welcome back to Bullseye Jesse Thorn if you're just joining us, we're hearing my two thousand eleven conversation with the one and only Buzi. Collins he's one of Pop music's. Bass players. He's played with James Brown parliament funke Delic Snoop Dogg, you name it. Back. To our conversation. But when was the first time you put on your? Star sunglasses and became the Buzi who we know as Buzi. Wow it was in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, five, that's when I've I. put him on because I stumbled across. First of all I went out looking for two things. One thing was a person to make the star base which are called the space base. and. The Star glasses I knew that I needed these things I used to draw all attack at school star glasses on stick man you know and he had a a star Guitar I used to drought at all the time I never knew it will wind up being me. But when I got the opportunity when George gave me the opportunity to do a solo thing. I was like. Man I can't I can't look like anybody else I gotta you know I wanNa see through stars you know I wanNA not only seat to start i WanNa have star glasses on that They will that are like mirror. So when the kids look at me in my face, they see themselves. So this was a whole concept that I kinda have had dreamed up I was on a mission because I was you know record record at this particular time? In one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, five, I was recording record and I'm thinking. Okay. Pretty soon, we're GONNA, have to take pictures for this and I gotTa have. These two things that I know, I, need and so a manager Georgia's manager who actually wind up managing me live down in La. I. Got a chance to come out to La and stay for a a couple of weeks. So in that couple of weeks I'm fine I'm trying to find this person that makes these dark glasses who's GonNa make these dark glasses. So I'm walking up and down the street broke heck you know an wanting east eyeglasses. So are I happen to wind up in a place called Optique Boutique? And I asked them because they had so many different weird is actually they had Elton John's glasses in the up in the window and I was like this is the place. This is the place I went in there and start talking to the guy and we got to kick in and he realized that was a up and coming. Musician that really didn't have no money but the atmosphere sounded great to him and he put it together for me for two hundred, fifty dollars. It was it was a movement that really that really had ten solid years. And Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if it was hard for that to stay together when everyone was. Doing their own thing and also everyone was so high. Wow I would probably say the first prodded the first five years. It would really wasn't heart I think it. It became really hard. When everybody started realizing? Money is being made. that's when an s usually when you know especially back in that in that time, that's when the problem really started. You know and then the other problem was. George. was having more fun than anybody. You know and. He's supposed to be steering the ship. Yeah. He's supposed to be. You know he's the commander this ship. And he's acting a bigger food and anybody you know which was fun. It was it was funny as heck. But at the same time when nobody you know everybody felt like they weren't getting paid and I think that was the last five years of what would you talking about? I get the impression that maybe George Clinton was the kind of Guy who? Rather than being. Rather than maliciously taking money for himself? Yeah. He was simply operating on the principle that we should just spend whatever we need to spend to do anything that we can think of, and then Fox including including like motherships and just drugs for everybody. Yeah and then and his plan was just well, we'll just try and make enough money to cover that. Well, you know he didn't even have a plan. You know it was more like You. Know back in the day when you would to somebody's house you know you would come in. You know it was like. You know here have a joint come have a seat you know and then you would kick it you a crack jokes and you know so that s Georgia's whole mentality. You know what? In about no business you know he wasn't days. Brown was like. A. Businessman. JORDAN WANNA hand to do with the business. You know he was just out to have a good time on the mothership he was. The director you know he was you know driving the mothership it was just having a great time you know and as long as everybody could grow with that. then. You know. We'll all have a great time you know and I think that was a i. think that was a great opportunity and that was a great time and a great vibe George had You know but at the same time. You know everybody was You know was getting hit with bills and couldn't pay this was getting married and having babies and the responsibility things die kicking in and. George you know he's not responsible for nothing. You know any, let you know that. Want. But never want as long as you. Live in. Afraid. You're you've been recording regularly through your entire career and I think that you are new album, which is called the funk capital of the world. Is kind of different. There's this thing called the grio which is. kind of an west African tradition of. Storytelling. That, a lot of culture theorists point to as the source for. A lot of African American musical culture. It's a kind of storytelling that's married with music. Yeah and there's a lot of storytelling on this record. There's Al Sharpton talking about James Brown. There's a there's a really great track with Samuel. Jackson talking about growing cameo. Yeah. Talk. About how? Chattanooga Tennessee. Big City. Why did YOU WANNA MAKE The centerpiece of this album well. mainly. Because I felt like it was time to. Talk. College. Sprint hope like dope. You know it's like. I felt like you know I wanted this record to be bigger. Than a me record and meaning bigger than just me putting out a Buzi record or Buzi rubber ban record I wanted to be something totally different and I need to get storytellers because I felt it was really necessary for now only today but the generations to come so it will kinda point back to where I got my phone from. And how we grew up I think. This album points to that and that's what I was really happy about doing Buzi. I, have one last question I wanna ask you and I have to admit is a question I have. I've wanted to ask you for at least twenty years. Wow. Wow I. Hope I can answer it I. Think you can she boaty. Yeah, you're superstar, right. TWINKLE twinkle bobble. Moods Collins. Thank you so much for taking the time to come out and falls I. Thank you much. Keep that fog alive. Buzi Collins we mentioned it at the top of the show, but he's got a new single called stars out. Now he's using it to raise money for folks working in the music industry who've been impacted by the pandemic and knows that folks working in the music industry have been impacted by the pandemic. We'll have a link to support the cause on the Bullseye page at maximum fund dot Org. That's the end of another episode of being a Bullseye is produced from the homes of me and the staff of maximum fun in and around Greater, Los Angeles, California where my daughter. Grace. And I just completed our greatest project are magnum opus, which is from our friend Marc Frown felder. boings. bookmaker. Dad It's like a little gamble thing that you attached to a kite string in then you attach a tiny usb camera to that and fly the. And you shoot stable video from a kite. Did this all with hand drill? Some superglue. Our show is produced by speaking into microphones. Producer is Kevin Ferguson. He Soon Brosio Jordan cowling associate producers. We get help from Casey O'Brien who judging by his social media presence is currently in a lake house somewhere Minnesota going insane. Are Interstitial Music is by Dan Wally also known as Dj w our theme song is by the go team. THANKS TO THEM AND THEIR LABEL MEMPHIS industries for letting US use it. You can also keep up with the show on facebook twitter and Youtube search for Bullseye with Jesse Foreign I. think that's about. Mr. Member all great radio hosts have a signature signs. How you? program. Bullseye with Jesse, thorn is production of maximum plunged dot org and is distributed by NPR. cooperated.
Justin and Dr. Sydnee McElroy of the Sawbones podcast
"The bulls eye with jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by npr. It's bullseye jesse. Thorn a quick warning before get into this interview. The conversation you're about to hear is about medical history so we will be talking about blood and guts injuries and other potentially squeamish stuff so if you're sensitive to that we thought we'd let you now anyway there's something fascinating and morbid fout medical something. That is unique to that. Like if you read up on military history odds are you'll hear a lot about general's maneuvering soldiers around surprising each other burning down cities. The technology has changed. But nothing else has really. We've always known how to fight war but if you look into the history of medicine one thing will become very clear very quickly for a very very very long time. We had no idea how our own bodies work bones which is a podcast produced. Here at maximum fund is a show about all the gruesome gross. Sometimes very funny stuff that we did to our bodies in the name of health and medicine. It's hosted by dr sidney mcelroy a physician and medical history buff and her husband justin mcelroy. Who hosts the show is my brother. My brother and me and the adventures on since the covid nineteen pandemic has dominated the headlines. Assab bones has also become a great source for reliable context and information about vaccines epidemiology. And why you shouldn't take your dogs worm medicine to fight off the corona virus when sydney justin and i talked in two thousand eighteen. They just released a book based on the show. It's called the saw bones. Book the hilarious horrifying road to modern medicine. It is beautifully illustrated by taylor snarl in just a couple of months ago. The book got a paperback edition. A definitive paperback edition with new material. You can buy now to anyway. Let's get into it. Justin and sydney mcelroy of solvent doctor. Sidney mcelroy justin mcelroy. Welcome to bullseye. It's nice to talk to you guys. What an honor. It is to be on your program finally jesse as an autour which is what us authors call authors really is that what is that what we say yes that is what us authors or a tourists. If we prefer say i. i didn't get that memo. So you two were podcasting before you started saw bones You had to television podcasts. Which is much more typical thing to podcast about. How did you end up podcasting about the very specific topic of medical history. Sibi always gets mad at me because it interviews. I always bring up. These two great shows these gray up shows and they weren't great. I was called guy. I had losing the sheen which was a darn. That's like the punch line. But the setup is the show about two and a half men hosted by two people that did not watch it until ashton kutcher joined the show and replaced charlie sheen and it was a episode by episode recap that we managed to stick with for all love ten episodes. I think nine or ten episodes losing the shame before we like eight. This is there's no mount of like soul-crushing yet still crushing soul-crushing and then we Decided to do a general. Tv podcast called satellite dish and that was pretty good Accept it made it so that we had to watch more tv than we wanted to keep up with the demand of having a tv podcast. You know we got. We just got too busy so we started to think. Doing a podcast is fun. But how can we kind of capitalize. On what what i was doing with the majority of my time which was acting as a physician being a doctor and so she's a row physician. She was an active. Not not a catch me if you can situation so i had always been interested in in medical history. It was something that i for fun. If that is fun would would read about in my spare time. And so we started talking about how some of these stories are pretty funny in kind of gruesome and pretty wild and maybe other people would like to hear them and then solvents was born sydney. Why do you think you were interested in medical history even as a doctor. I'm sure many of your colleagues are glad to know the latest and greatest and not worry about clini. The elder part of it is some of the conclusions. We've come to in the ways that we manage things it's just fascinating to think about. How did we figure that out. How did we get here. How did we come up with that. And that was part of why. I wanted to know and then the other thing about medicine is that show much stuff has epidemic. You learn about you know d- various signs that are named for different doctors are places or patients or whatever and i was always curious as to who was that and what did they do. And why did they get that named after. How do i get that. And it was also a way for us to avoid giving advice which can get Legally a little dicey dicey and just morally and ethically lake challenging so talking about what people used to do. Helps us to skirt that i like that. You're controlling liability with this podcast. That was the that was the original title but we can fit it on the thumbnail. So can you take me kind of briefly. Sydney through the basic history of what people and particularly in What used to be called. The west knew about how the body worked up until the twentieth century like. When did we figure out that hearts are important or the brains are thinking So we'll just sum up the past two hundred forty five episodes where podcasts. Easy two minute summary. No problem dog sydney go. I'm looking signpost. Build the rest of this okay A lot of the the first challenge is anatomy. I mean that was. That was the basic i challenge was. What's inside the human body. And can we take a look and figure that out and it really wasn't until Dissection started becoming culturally and socially acceptable. And that was during the medieval period. Actually when we started to see more dissections and we got a better understanding of anatomy up until then a lot of it had been derived from a couple people who had done dissections here and there and written about it and then a lot of Animal dissections so we had a lot of weird ideas about what was going on there so that was probably the first turning. Point was when we could actually start doing dissections and then we knew what the pieces were. it a lot of it from there forward until we get to gosh the eighteen hundreds. The human system of madison was still popular up until then the idea that we have four humors when we've got a balance We were still debating did veins and arteries carry blood or air or We had weird ideas like maybe our bones or made of semen All of these things until jury is still out on that one by the way science is going back and forth still really. It's not until the eighteen hundreds that we start to get a firmer idea of what each organ does and where different processes take place And then medical science really explodes at the turn of the century there and throughout the nineteen hundreds. I mean it's just advance after advance and the germ theory of disease. And then we understand you know how how we can infect each other with various illnesses and than vaccines and antibiotics come along and then everything changes throughout the first half really of the nineteen hundreds and also if you're a huge shift in the idea of like what science can do because we didn't understand any of these things before we started applying treatments so like even back before we would understand why something would work or something wouldn't work It was just about. I don't know let's try and let's record the phenomena and see what happens and see what the effect of this thing is and that is our role is not to understand why things are working. Just a catalog. What does and does not work. So we're trying treatments a long long time before we ever have the understanding to create a reasonable hypotheses for why these work and to differentiate between correlation in conversation was a big deal. There are a lot of well. Your hiccup stopped after. You walked through a crossroad. So walking thera- crossroads must stop hiccups. Hiccups is actually. I think the best one like if you want to understand medical history. I'm obsessed the hiccups. Because hiccups and i think warts are the two where i would put like throughout all of human history. We have had hiccups and then stopped having them at a certain point after that. And whatever you did right before. That moment was the cure for hiccups. So there's no like you hear a hundred cups and it's all because we just believed well whatever. We did right before they stopped. That's the cure. That's what did it that works. Tinny you both teach medicine and our family doctor Has thinking about these. Things affected the way that you practice. I think for sure. I'm a lot more in tune with the fact that even though we have come very far and we know a lot more than we used to Even fifty years ago. They're still a lot. We have to learn There is still a reason to take every new advance and look at it and analyze the data and figure out why we're making these decisions and then take all that and still try to advise. There is still some individual treatment for each patient. There's still a way to take all that evidence and then use the part of it. That is most appropriate for each person for their health and for their benefit. And i think i've really. I've i've really come to understand that better from from studying this And i feel luckier to be practicing medicine. Now would one hundred years ago. I mean i think about that. All the time. I have a chronic health condition. I have severe migraine headaches. And i think of the fact that you know human beings have been on the earth for so long like so long and my health condition doesn't threaten to kill me but it sure makes my life miserable and i think what an incredible difference just the past twenty five years even since in my memory is over the twenty five years before that when my mother suffered from migraines to say nothing of seventy five years ago when my grandmother suffered from migraines or a hundred years ago when some guy in dusseldorf just you know would try to self drepung nate demons out or whatever. Now it's very true. I think i've become. I hope a better advocate for Like vaccination as an example. Because of this. When i'm talking to my patients People who are nervous about it. I think having the historical perspective and saying listen. I know i know how hard it is to see your kid get a shot but let me just walk you through. Why and how. And what it was like before Having that perspective of what it was like twenty five fifty seventy five hundred years ago and the dangers. That were out there for kids. I i think it. I hope it helps me be a better advocate. It's also been one of the frustrating things won't making saw bones in the past couple of years is what started out as a show that was supposed to be about medical history. And hey for us. Aren't we smart. We solved all these things As far too frequently. I think our show has had recently has had to become like. Hey this is still true. These things are still made up like there is still such a thing as right and wrong and true and false and some people still would love to steal your money to pretend to make you feel better Or just gasp. Bessis back out there get. Its moment to shine again. Nope still bad. It's still actually very bad for you. Actually one of the things that that is still very true. So that kind of stuff has it has like inadvertently made solomon's political just because like talking about how science is an actual thing has become annoying political ads sydney. It must be interesting for you to be constantly engaged with the failures of your profession that. That's that's definitely true. I mean it's a. It's a good way to stay humble Which i think is absolutely critical in the medical profession The the human body and medical science and how much we don't know it's it should be incredibly humbling and i think if you come at taking care of people from that perspective then you will do your best job and not limitations I think it's really important as a physician to be able to say. I don't know and just honestly tell a patient that and that's very heart. That's an incredibly difficult thing when you're in the room and somebody's looking for answers and you don't have an answer 'cause either we don't know yet or dot something. I'm going to have to read about that because that's not something. I come across every day. So i knew do more research. Oh man it's hard to say. I don't know and i think knowing that a lot of people before me have either had to say i don't know or didn't and You know they paid the pay the price for that i. I think it's good. I think. I think it's hard also because i to hear you talk about it. Said it is hard to say. I don't know but also the internet does not also no so. Please don't go ask the internet because the internet does not know better. And i think that's the assumption is the dock. There's there's this Presupposition people make on the internet all the time about medicine or doctors. The doctors are trying to keep the good stuff from people so like an admission of ignorance from doctor can can like the internet can russian to fill that vacuum and i think that could be really dangerous. It is and that's that's actually one of the things that i have said and i've heard my colleagues say a lot is that i wish i had the kind of self assuredness or confidence that some of the people who are out there peddling fake cures fake medicine. Have because if you if you watch like people on the internet doing like nutritional response testing They are so certain. And that is a certainty that a lot of the time. I just can't have. Because i think this is right. I have the evidence this should be. This should work for you. But everybody's differen- everything every day is different so let's try it and then come back and let's see how it goes. Somebody with that kind of certainty always makes me a little wary. We'll wrap up my conversation with sydney justin mcelroy. When we return from a break still to come imagine if we get one of those old timey doctors into a time machine and transport them to today. How would they react to modern medicine. The saw bones team. That's a pretty good guess. It's bullseye for maximum. Fun dot org and npr. I started listening to own a rawson kerry. Shortly after i broke my arm. I was allergic to water. I knew it was time to make a change. There's something about. Oh no ross carry that you just can't anywhere else. They're thought leaders discoverers founders healers luminaries rawson carried. Don't just report on. Fringe science spirituality claims of the paranormal. They take part themselves. They shall up so you don't have but you might find that you want to arm is better. My landlord came back from the dead. Just go to maximum dot org carry onerous and carries. Just podcast citizen. Do anything it's just sound. listen to near ears. All these people are made up goodbye here at planet money industries. We've manufactured t shirts we've bought oil. We've even gone to space but our next planet money series. Well let's just say a superhero is coming to a podcast. Feed near you from npr. It's bullseye i'm jesse thorn guests justin mcelroy doctor sidney mcelroy co host. The podcast saw bones a marital tour of misguided medicine when we talked in two thousand eighteen. They just published a book based on their podcast. It's called the saw bones. Book the hilarious horrifying road to modern medicine. Sydney and justin have just released an updated. Paperback edition of the book. Which you can buy. Now let's get back into our conversation. Who's your favorite snake oil sales person of all time. I mean for me. it's gotta be plenty of the elder. I know you're gonna say otherwise. Oh yeah just empa- i. He was so earnest and so creative in his wrong cures. There's it's never as easy as take this herb It's always like take this herb. And then get some pigeon eggs and inserted in their carefully and then put it in a bucket of urine and dump some wine and leave it out in the sun for three days and then take it and bury it in the ground and after a week you can have your cousin who has red hair spit in it and then eat it and you'll be you know you won't be dizzy anymore or something like that. And it's just amazing the stuff it's so creative Mine is kurdish house springer a cat that bought a bunch of land in the mojave desert And renamed it czyz ix z. So it would be. It's z. z. Y. z. x. Named such so that it would be the last word in health was the gimmick there and he had radio a health. Spas that were really just Hot pools desert and he started He had a radio state. Like to be clear when you say hot pools. We're not talking about natural hot springs. Even now we're talking about how he filed a mining claim. Yeah yeah to get some land and then put in a water boiler. Yeah and it's a. He had a sixty room hotel at church and there was a a spa that was shaped like a cross and he had his own Radio station that just play like religious music and ads for his medicines constantly so he He was known as the king of quacks ranking of quacks cardinals springer a good one sydney as a woman. As you study. The history of medicine are used struck by structural inequities between men and women and people of other genders definitely. The one of the earliest episodes that we did was on hysteria which is of course not an actual disease. It's not an actual disorder. It was kind of a catch all term for a not acting the way we would like her to And there may have actually been medical problems that underlie some of the symptoms and some of these behaviors and other cases. It could have just been a woman who didn't want to conform to the societal standards of the time period And there were obviously all kinds of horrible treatments and and Women were institutionalized for having hysteria and that concept is of course outdated today. Nobody's diagnosed with that now but you see echoes of that even in medicine today. It's no surprise that if you are not mail your pain will not be perceived as great by your by your medical professional will Under under value your your thoughts about what might be going on and Not take you seriously and treat you and we've seen that with Things like i think endometriosis has been in the in the media. Spotlight a lot lately. Where a lot of the times if it has to do with the pelvis Near not a male and you come in with a complaint. You're kind of just turned away and said like wow. I don't know takes my be proof and you'll be fine. And and the same thing. I think childbirth. You could make a lot of arguments for the way that we medical is birth and kind of took away from the people giving birth and said you can't handle this. We'll do it all for you. Just lay there and let us take care of it. There echoes of that now. It's not as bad certainly And i think with more female doctors that has that has helped but we still have a way to go when my wife was pregnant You know you go through the list of things that you medical treatments that you can and can't have when when is pregnant. And many of them are prohibited basically because they haven't been studied in the population of pregnant women I recently learned. Oh lek studies have historically gone to great lengths to exclude pregnant women including sometimes just excluding women because they could become pregnant just because it's complicated just because it would make things complicated and leaves pregnant women without access to many therapies. That could be safe if they had been studied and determined to be safe. That's very true. It's it's also a great example of how the behavior of a pregnant person is so tightly. Regulated in part. Because we don't know how harmful different things are or what is harmful in some cases and so we would just rather tell somebody look. It's not about you. It's about the baby so just don't do any of these things that don't take any of these madison's and dogo to any of these places and it's not about you it's your quality of life has to be sacrificed at this moment because there's another person that we care more about and that's very much the message instead of. Hey how about we take care of both of you. How about we make sure that we're giving you the best information so you can have a good quality of life as well as the new life growing inside you We don't we. Don't really take that into consideration. Flipside if researcher comes up to you and they're like hey what. Roll the bones in your baby to help us see of nyquil. Works like you probably matt. I think i'm okay. Well i think that if you're talking about nyquil that's a really bad example. Michael d pad medicine. Yes i am this but like the. If you're is hardly find will like. It is hard to find pregnant people who who are willing to risk. Take the resit associated with like that sort of research. They have certain medical conditions. Where maybe they they would really like to see if they have other therapeutic options. What you might be talking about is the legal risk for the doctors involved and the trouble. It would take to design a study like that and it's harder it's harder rb approval and you just decide. I don't wanna mess with all that Sydney how do you think one of these old timey doctors would feel about the way. Medicine is practiced today. If we could get plenty the elder over like helicopters and tall buildings view. He was chilling. How would he react to the modern practice of medicine. I think i think the biggest over plenty. I think he would think we were under utilizing lots of elements of nature in our treatments. Like where all the feces that you're not using his medicine and where where do fox's figuring why you using wolf's hearts for anything but i think other than that We now we can touch patients. I think that's a big difference. If you go all the way back to ancient times they weren't they weren't examining a lot of people kind of looking at you may be looking at your p. But not really touching you. I think that would that would be a little disturbing. But i think that tasting your appeal little Just little piece somewhat just to see if it was sweet. I think the biggest difference. I think the biggest thing they would say is why i. I don't think the switch from individualized treatment plans to more like disease based treatment plants. I think that would be very dissonant to an old timey ancient physician. I think that would be very hard for them to to understand why we would treat to people who may be look completely different different ages or sizes or genders or whatever why we would treat them with the medicine. I think that would be very very confusing and disorienting to see that shift. And then i think the whole you know. The hippocratic oath says that we would not a charge students for teaching them. That's part of the hippocratic oath. And i think that if you kind of take that expanded to the way. That medicine is a business now. And it's not it's not individualized. it's not private. it's not an art. It's not a human thought. A humanistic thing. It's like a business in this country. I think that would be very disturbing to ancient physicians Who took what they did to be a this. Very profound undertaking of you know human behavior to help each other to curie other to treat each other to to provide care. I think the way that medicine has become this something that you can buy and sell. I think that would be very upsetting. Does my guess plus probably some stuff about the volume of the two different colors of bile. Well that's it. Well i mean are we assuming already told him about like electric and everything. Because it's going to be a rough week. Carla the electric medical record alone shirts the end of it. Well justin mcelroy doctor sidney mcelroy. Thank you so much for coming on bullseye. It's nice to get to talk to you guys It's been too long. Yeah likewise are playing you. Please barbeque justin. And dr sidney mcelroy from twenty eighteen. Their podcast saab bones drops weekly which given the fact that sydney is both apparent and a working physician in the midst of a pandemic is pretty extraordinary. Listen and subscribe to saw bones for helpful news. You can use about our world health situation right now and something to take your mind off all that from medical history. The saw bones book. The hilarious horrifying road to modern medicine is beautiful and delightful. Its definitive edition with expanded material. Is out right now in paperback. That's the end of another episode of bullseye. Bullseye is created from the homes of me and the staff of maximum fund in and around greater los angeles. California here at my house. I'm not afraid to say that. I have a grape nuts stash. I don't know if you guys know about the shortage but it is real and particularly in a pandemic. You don't have to make a special trip to get your grape nuts. The show is produced by speaking into microphones. Our producer is kevin ferguson. Hey sue some brosio and jordan catalan. Our our associate producers. We get help from casey. O'brien and kristen bennett. Our interstitial music is by dan. Wally also known in. Dj w our theme song is by the go team thanks to them and to their label memphis industries. You can keep up with the show on twitter. Facebook and youtube. We post all of our interviews there. And i think that's about it just remember. All radio hosts the signature sign on bullseye. With jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by npr.
I Wish I'd Made That: Nick Offerman
"The bulls eye with jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by n._p._r. Yep it's bullseye. I'm jesse thorn artists musicians filmmakers. The people who make stuff are often inspired by what they see or hear and sometimes something so great. Tell us they. I wish they'd made it themselves. It happens so often. We made a segment about it. It's called. I wish i'd made that and today you're going to hear from the one and only nick often hello. This is nick offerman and i am an actor and writer and woodworker. You might remember him as the lovable ron swanson on parks and recreation in he's also one of the hosts of the reality competition show making it alongside amy poehler sorta like the great british bake off with the pipe right cleaners and table saws instead of funded. He's also a comic. He's traveling our great nation and the world with his gibson guitar for his new show all rise. It's comedy and music and the very particular perspective of one nick offerman when we asked him if there was is any t._v. Show or movie or album that he wished he'd made nick said he leaves that stuff to the professionals he decided to channel his woodworking roots and tell us about the greatest guitar he's ever held in his hands. The gibson j two hundred take it away nick. I'm not clever enough to <hes> tomake t._v. Or films i have tried and that's how i learned that i'm not clever enough so depend on much greater brains than my down for those mediums but in the woodworking shop <hes> i can take a swing at challenging projects and so i chose does it once once i switched over to woodworking. I immediately thought when i saw the gibson j two hundred guitar also known as the jumbo over the super jumbo. I wish i had made that <music>. This is <hes> a as a beautiful beautiful booming face but also a bright top end <music> <music>. I was teaching myself guitar sir. My wife is an incredible singer and musician and i had a dream that one day maybe we could perform together and <hes> she had a birthday party to which she invited patty griffin to come play in our yard and patty. Thankfully was a fan of will and grace. She agreed she came in played a handful of songs on this vintage gibson j two hundred and she had a lot to do with it obviously she's. She's wonderfully elfin. She you know is just magical and her voice is beautiful. Her songs are incredible and her guitar playing is exquisite and so i just was absolutely we <hes> bewitched by her plan and i said i gotta find out what that guitar is and get me one. I did a lot of homework and discovered of of course that i had chosen the most expensive possible vintage guitar to chase down. This is probably ten twelve years ago anywhere in l._a. Or new york or chicago or nashville austin <hes> at any given time you could find two or three of these exquisite exquisite top of the line guitars and they were running ten to twelve thousand dollars so around the time <hes> you know obviously that immediately disqualified disqualified them from my consideration then i got my job on parks and rick and a couple of years in a looked like the show might keep going a little bit and i said oh oh let me go try and play one of these and i went into the vintage guitar shop and i played one went back in the little room and when i heard myself play it. It sounded an awful lot like me playing my own crappy guitar and i realized oh i have no business business. Spending twelve thousand dollars on guitar on which will sound is mediocre as i will on any guitar and i was sitting there playing the expensive beautiful the j two hundred and i thought oh i'm not going to buy one of these. I'm gonna make one because if i'm gonna sound mediocre might as well have the rich story story of making one myself. We'll have more from nick offerman in a minute. Stay with us. It's bulls eye for maximum fund dot org and n._p._r. This message search comes from n._p._r. Sponsor smart water water is for the curious drinkers the ones who are always looking for ways to make things a little better. That's way smart. Water created two new ways to hydrate the smart one alkaline nine plus ph and smart water antioxidant with added selenium and now you can order smart water by saying alexa order smart waters smart water. That's pretty smart. Skit might be hard to pin down. What makes a friendship really work. I feel like we're like the michael jordan the friendships that you can't ask jordan. You can't ask jordan how he does what he does. He's a freak of nature but clearly some people know how to do it. Check out live kids new guide from from n._p._r. On navigating the highs and lows of friendship or subscribed to life kit all guides for all of our episodes all place hi i'm dave hill from showbusiness and while i'm not from canada my grandfather clarence vincent blake senior was and he wouldn't shut up about it. My grandfather moved donald that great penalty box in the sky way back in the eighties still all these years later. I can't help but wonder what do we really know about canada and and it's people which is why my friend chris girls beckon. I decided to make so you're canadian brand new podcast from the maximum fund network on which i attempt to get to know our neighbors to the north one canadian at a time coming maximum fun august twenty seven. I'm not sorry it's bullseye. I'm jesse thorn nick offerman in his here for our segment. I wish i'd made that which this time around we might call. I actually tried to make that cares neck one book all about how to build a guitar including plans for a j two hundred and at the end of the book everything in in the book <hes> was a no brainer. If you've built wooden boats like okay yeah steam bending got that hand shaping the neck putting installing the frets and the the tuning machines that was new territory but not insurmountable and then you get to the end of the book and it says the catch about out an acoustic guitar. Is you want to make it lightweight enough. This sort of beautifully shaved toned vessel so that one you put the strings on it vibrates and the most delightful sonorous manner so you can't leave it too thick. It can't be too heavy duty otherwise otherwise you might as well put strings on a two by six but if you shave it a little too little too thinly when you tighten up the the six steel strings it applies about two hundred pounds of poll on this shell of wood you've created and so if you've gotten it a a little too right then the whole thing explodes. That's the end of the book and new terrifying. I imagined you just you've talked ninety nine percent of potential luthier out of taking a shot at it so so what do i do i go out and get another book and i got a third book and each book ended the same way. They all said that they're like you. Gotta shave it just enough because if you shave it too much it will explode so after three books. I said i'm daunted but what about a ukulele ukulele has plastic strings things it's not nearly the the pressure that's on guitar and so i figured out how to build a ukulele and <hes> i. I built my first one which i brought in here. It's a it's a soprano ukulele in it's built entirely of mahogany to sort of match the aesthetic of of the old martin ukulele is and you know it's got <hes> some some pecadillos <hes> the frets especially required a finesse finesse that i'm still learning <hes> so the frets are pretty crappy but all in all sounds like a ukulele and i wrote a song song called the ukulele song and i wrote the song i so that i would have had to make myself get started because it was really scary to try an instrument but you know like anything i made mistakes and <hes> i mean i've made mistakes building tables. That's a lot less difficult. The thing is the mistakes are important because if you're going to become exquisite if you're going to become exceptional at anything you're never gonna just do it on your first. Try it means you're gonna screw. You're gonna ruin a lot of wood before you make <hes> a trophy piece so it made this ukulele toured with it <hes> performing ukulele lele song. They made a real nice video of it. At the fayetteville roots festival. I love beer and whisky. Perhaps embiid too much given the chance i'd fall off a bar stool daily to keep me out of the pub and also i make things like at this soprano ukulele paddled a canoe that i built across a river and playing a ukulele daily that i made and making an audience laugh with my song <hes> both of them feel sort of equally super heroic. If if you're in touch with is an elemental part of the human capacity like oh if it goes down and society gets wiped out i am able to make a tree into a floating vessel that will get us to catalina and so we can still have a wine mex or even after the apocalypse doc. Why can't we all get along for a minute. Everybody's all palestinian or israeli really will head down to the shop and enjoy the two. We couldn't build a pacifying. You lean unle nick offerman. He's touring his new show. All rise across this great nation this summer and fall you can see the guitar in bersin if you go to one of the this show is i went to one here in los angeles. I had a good old time. You don't need to be a master craftsperson to appreciate the beauty of that big fat guitar. All the screens in the world is won't let me be life is way too grammy and email so ran into my shop milled some fine mahogany anti built his mother loving ukulele layer. Could you come the end of another episode of bullseye bullseye produced at maximum fun dot org world headquarters overlooking macarthur park imputable los angeles california with this week. The lake at the park was refilled yeah. There's a giant water canon that shoots water into the lake. It's great great every time it happens. It's a thrill <hes> anyway. Show is produced by speaking into microphones are producers kevin ferguson. He's away way. Ragu monovalent is filling in for him wearing a floral hat today they soussan brosio is our associate producer. We get help from casey o'brien. Our production fellow so is jordan cowling jordan. I turns out hates the movie the godfather led by many as one of the greatest if not the greatest film ever made <hes>. She watched it for the first time recently. I thought it was super boring. It was also we're birthday this week so happy birthday to jordan are interstitial music is by d._j. W also known as dan wally thanks to dan. Don't know how he feels about. The godfather probably likes it. Most people do our theme song is huddle formation by the go eighteen thanks to them and memphis industries. They record label for letting us use it and before you go. Did you know that we've got twenty years of bullseye in the can okay not quite twenty like eighteen or nineteen years of bullseye in the can and almost all of it is up on the internet so you can listen to you know you wanna listen to brian pro sane steve a._g. Talk about the sarah silverman program you can do that. They were great on that show and they were they're. They're sweet guys. You wanna hear ted leo perform <music>. <hes> songs live in my apartment when i used to record the show in my apartment you can do that. <hes> you can find all our past stuff at our website maximum fund. You can also find <hes> years worth on youtube to search for bullseye with jesse thorn and you can find us on facebook and twitter as well search for bullseye with jesse thorn where at bullseye on twitter. I think that's about it. Just remember all great radio shows signature sign off bullseye with jesse thorn born is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by n._p._r.
Pavement's Stephen Malkmus
"It's Bullseye. Thorn time now for the song that changed my life. It's a chance to talk with great artists about the music that made them who they are today. This week Stephen Malcolm s Stephen Mouth Mris, of course, the singer and Co founder of pavement when most beloved and influential modern rock bands ever. Glows. stage. Talk. Slow. Swan. Pay. The band's been called. One of the Great Act of one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety s they recorded so many songs that capture that decade perfectly cut your hair range life stereo. The band broke up in one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine, and miss has kept on as prolific as ever dropping nine records since two thousand one, his latest is called traditional techniques on it. Stephen offers his take on folk music. There's a little bit of Joni Mitchell, a little loudon wainwright, maybe some incredible string band. Churn rate and. MS. Van. Jazz. When we asked Stephen Malcolm mess about the song that changed his life. He didn't talk about any of those. Instead, he threw us kind of a curveball. Takeaway Steve. My name is Steve Mouth Miss and the song that changed my life is love will keep us together by captain and to kneel. Captains Neil for most of history have been not been known as a particularly hip. Band. I think. One of the reasons is a song called Muskrat love. Jiang. Flow. Snag, Musk read. which was one of their hits and the Muskrat. Love. Is, pretty, Corny, song and I can see. People. Looking down upon it. But. Song that changed my life is love will keep us together The first time. I heard captain into Neil. Probably was on one of my parents cassette tapes. We were more of a cassette tape family because we listen to music more when we're traveling on ski trips or playing dominoes though in the House I'm imagining that's when I heard it. I was probably eight years old something like that. Style. I think yeah captain. Antonio. I. Think it appealed to a young person the captain he wore this red suits and red shirts and his hat and kind of totally deadpan never talk and. The didn't look too different than captain. Kangaroo. Or? The banana splits I used to imitate him a lot. I would play. I would put on a captain's hat and imitate playing piano in the hang town pajamas. Body Mind. I want to reacquaint myself with visuals about captains neal's I'm GonNa look on my phone. Watch this youtube clip of them plane live. More watching I'm watching. CAPTAIN INTO ON A. TV show some sort doesn't say too much about where they're playing it has a classic Seventies. Backdrop To Neil's got a really awesome gold necklace on she's hamming it up like she always does a little bit. Always kind of acted out the songs. They're just in power tree I'M A. Both of them. One thing that's amazing about this television performance is that it's actually live. Playing a little faster and they're doing something that I don't know how to do, which is played keyboards with their hands raised parallel to each other. Sounds also, like captain might be playing That's he's little dabbling with ARP their. Captains dabbling with some modern keyboards, the kind of keyboards, bands like daft punk and air just their hearts go a flood or when they hear it. There he goes. You know it's almost got the sound of. Peter Frampton voice. I want you. I don't know I just that song is very sweet. Song to it has a A Nice message. About curling altogether. When you everybody's going to Eventually. We're going to decay a little bit but I'll still be there with the. And we are all together. Like they're having some fun there at the end. Did you hear that clapping. I don't mind that at the end of a song when you kind of add some simulated mirth. To, the to the track. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Steve was Stephen Malcolm on the song that changed his life love will keep us together by captain into Neil. Stephen Malcolm Os's latest album traditional techniques is out. Now let's play another song from it. This once called the greatest own in legal history. Yes. That is the real title. Really. Got Spreads. The Sun one. That's the end of another episode of Bullseye. Bullseye is produced out of the homes of me and the staff of maximum fund in and around Greater Los, Angeles, California, a city which has turned orange. And Burns, your lungs when you go out of doors, my understanding from the New York Times wire cutter is that pretty decent substitute for an air purifier if you haven't got one is to just take an HVAC filter and tape it to a box fan. So that's our recommendation to anybody who doesn't have an air purifier right now here on the West. Coast our show is produced by speaking into microphones. Our producer is Kevin Ferguson Hey sue PROSCIUTTO and Jordan cowling are associate producers we get help from Casey O'Brien are interstitial music is by Dan Wally also known as DJ W. R. Theme Song by the Great Band the go team thanks to them and their label Memphis Industries for letting US use it. You can also keep up with the show on facebook twitter and youtube just search for Bullseye with Jesse Thorn I think that's about it just remember all great radio host have a signature signed. Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR.
Pavement's Stephen Malkmus on the song that changed his life
"Support for this NPR podcast comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company, family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty proud supporter of independent thawed. Whether that's online over the air or in a bottle, more at Sierra, Nevada dot com. It's eye. I'm Jesse thorn time now for the song that changed my life. Chance to talk with great artists about the music that made them who they are today. And this week we have Steven mouth mass Stephen mouth miss is. Of course, the singer and co founder of pavement, one of the most beloved and influential modern rock bands ever glows stage of sad. Slow one. God pay. The band has been called one of the best acts of the nineteen ninety s they recorded so many songs that capture that decade, perfectly cut your hair range life stereo, the band broke up in one thousand nine hundred nine mouth miss has kept on as prolific as ever dropping eight records since two thousand one his latest was just released it's called groove denied. And this time Malcolm is working with drum machines vintage since a lot of voice river. It's a departure for him a little less like the fall, a little more like suicide craft Burke. Pats. Say show. Goes. When we asked him about the Sean met changed his life, though. He didn't talk about any of those bands. Instead, he threw us a curve ball take it away. Steve. My name is Steve mouth mass. And the song that changed. My life is love will keep us together by captain and to kneel captain into Neil for most of history have been not been known as particularly hip band. I think one of the reasons is a song com. Muskrat love. Which was one of their their hits the muskrat love is pretty corny song. And I can see. People looking down upon it. But song that changed? My life is level. Keep us together. The first time I heard captain into Neil probably was on one of my parents, cassette tapes, we were more of a cassette tape family because we listen to music more when we were traveling on ski trips or playing dominoes though. In the house, I'm imagining that's when I heard it. I was probably eight years old something like that. I think. Yeah. Captain into knee. I think it appealed to young person the captain, he wore this red, suits and red shirts and his hat and kind of totally deadpan never talk and the didn't look too different than captain kangaroo or the banana splits. I used to imitate him a lot. I would play I would put on a captain's hat and imitate playing piano and the hang town pajamas. Body mind. I want to reacquaint myself with visuals about captains Neal's, I'm gonna look on my phone watch, this YouTube clip them playing live. Now are watching I'm watching captain into Neo on a TV show of some sort doesn't say too much about where they're playing. It has a classic seventies. Backdrop to Neil's got a really awesome gold necklace on. She's hamming it up like she always does a little bit. She always kind of acted out the songs. What? They're just an power tree on both of them. One thing. That's amazing about this television performance is it it's actually live playing a little faster. And they're doing something that I don't know how to do which is played to keyboards with their hands rays parallel to each other sounds also like captain might be playing. That's he's little dabbling with Arp their captains dabbling with some modern keyboards, the kinda keep boards the bands like daft punk and air just their hearts, go flat. Or when they hear it. There. He goes. You know, it's almost got the sound of Peter Frampton voice. I want you. I don't know. I just that song is very sweet song to it has a a nice message about growing altogether. When you everybody's going to eventually, we're going to decay a little bit. But I'll still be there with the and we can grow all together. Look, they're having some fun there at the end. Did you hear that clapping? I don't mind that at the end of a song when you kind of adds some simulated mirth to the to the track. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Steve was Stephen Balch mess on the song that changed his life. Love will keep us together by captain into Neil. His new album groove denied is out. Now, it's really fun. Let's listen to one more song from it. This one's called a bit wild. We've come to the end of another episode of bullseye bulls eye recorded at maximum fund or world headquarters. Overlooking MacArthur park and beautiful loss Angeles, California where according to my notes on this paper, we have had a New York City transit bus parked right outside our office along with a couple of checker cabs. So again, I'm just reading from my notes it looks like the Big Apple has come to the city of angels. For making you say that Kevin the show is produced by speaking into microphones along with our producer, the aforementioned, Kevin Ferguson. Hey, soussan Brosio is our associate producer if help from Casey O'Brien here in the office and our production fellow at max funds is Jordan cows. Are interstitial music is by DJ w Reten Wally thanks for sharing with us. Dan, Wally our theme song is called huddle formation. It's by the band of the go team. They let us use that. And so did their label. Memphis industries. So we think both of them should run out by yourself go team album, and before you go I've been making this show for decades almost decades decade and three quarters hundreds and hundreds of interviews pretty much every one of those is on our website at maximum fund dot org. You can also find them in your favorite podcasting app. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube where we post all of our recent inter. Views including all of the segments from today's show. You can hear them all just by searching for bullseye with Jesse thorn on YouTube, and I guess that's about it. Just remember all great radio hosts have a signature sign off. Bullseye with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR.
John David Washington of "BlacKkKlansman" and "Ballers"
"This message comes from NPR sponsor. Comcast business. Business has always been driven by innovators. That's why Comcast business is helping you with technology that provides better experiences. Comcast business beyond fast. Well, I with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR. I'm Jesse thorn. It's bullseye. John David Washington is one of those guys who could have had it easy wet. He grew up as the son of actor, Denzel Washington. Maybe you've heard of that, dude. And you might think a lifetime of roles in blockbuster movies away. But John David took a let's say circuitous route to his eventual destination of Hollywood his first life had him lacing up the pads every week for a career in professional football where he spanned the globe from Sacramento to Duesseldorf trying to make it work. I endured several concussions torn meniscus torn achilles sports. Hernia broken ribs clavicle all in the name of that independence. You know? I was willing to sacrifice it all to to know to show more to myself. But I didn't know that time for others though to show that I can earn my own keep in spike. Lee's latest black klansman John plays, Ron. Stalwart the first black police officer to join the ranks of the Colorado Springs police department, if you haven't seen it the movie is based on stalwarts memoir of the same name in real life. And in the film stallworth tries to infiltrate the local KKK chapter. Yes. Help from white police officer who stands in for him at meetings and wears a wire to record incriminating conversations in this scene. Ron is at the police department interviewing for a job he sitting across from the two men in charge of hiring one interviewer is a white police officer, the other is a black city employees played by the great is AO Whitlock. How do you get along with people, generally, sir? They treat me. Right. Treat them, right. Like, I said before I was raised up the right way. I mean, have you ever had any negative? What would you do if another Cup? Call. Or worse. With that happen, sir. You've never been a black cop in the city. We make you an officer. You will in effect be the Jackie Robinson of the Colorado Springs police force. And if you knew anything about Jackie Robinson, you know, he had to take a lot of Gulf from his fellow teammates the fans other teams and the press. I know the Jackie Roosevelt Robinson stories are good. So no one that if somebody called you would you be able to turn the cheek. For had to, sir. Yes. Yes. I would John David Washington. Welcome to bullseyes. Nice heavy on the show me listening to that. In audio form made me think that like there's to basically two great reasons to aspire to be Spike Lee, one is one of the great filmmakers of his generation. Great teacher. You know, all those things the other is if you put Isaiah Whitlock in your movie, you can be like, hey, I say, would you mind going? Consistently to he never. I mean, he's always delivering that every. Is even funny when he believe it out. But you know, what he's saying? And you know, it just gives more context. Those funny. But in awesome charity. Welcome to the show. Thank you for coming on. You're professional football player for for a pretty long time. I mean, professional football careers tend to be short. Did you always aspire to be a professional athlete? I kind of I did it out of necessity in in a way. I I wanted to be an actor because of seeing my father and seeing my mother play the piano, I wanted to be a performer, but I started playing football though, because my dad's started getting pretty popular in Hollywood, and we started moving and moving to different places, and you know, studying in treated a little differently. So of course, I wanted to protect my feelings in I I wanted to start making my own name. So watch shows football. Now loved the game. I always love football rental Cunningham is the reason I played seeing a person that looked like me at that position. At the quarterback position. I had never seen before you know, what I mean? So I- spire to play in the NFL, but it was more of a rebellious sort of quest of independence than it was to actually live out my dream, which was which I was burying which was acting. I had Terry crews on the show a couple years ago, folks, probably know as an actor. He was also a professional football player. The Redskins, right. Was in Washington. Yeah. He played for a few. He played for a few different teams. He was he bounced around. He played in NFL Europe, his career is actually a lot a lot like yours. Yeah. And one of the things that Terry crews said to me was he kind of locked eyes with me. I mean locked in the he was locked eyes. With me the entire time. Terry crews is very Terry crews, very powerful experience to talk to that man. Uh-huh. But he kind of locked eyes with me. And he said, you know, with the exception of a few quarterbacks everyone in the NFL is broken, and like physically or or just a mental emotional emotionally. Okay. Yeah. Yes. His point being that. It's some it's such a painful brutal way to make a living. That it takes a lot to drive someone to the level of success that gets you to the NFL. And I wonder if that was reflected in your experience, and I will concur with that. I I it's watching football. Now, I I can't believe these young men put their bodies through what they indoor physically digging about the human will, you know, and and to to provide for the families to to change their circumstances. You got to credit them all of I and I'm no different. I I did I endured several concussions torn meniscus torn achilles sports. Hernia broken ribs clavicle all in the name of that independence. You know? I was willing to sacrifice it all to to know to show more to myself. But I didn't know that at the time for others though to show that I can earn my own keep I am own man. There's so many cases in. NFL that they're just trying to provide for their family trying to do better for themselves. You know, and that sort of motivation. I mean, you see it on draft day if it's the draft NFL draft weaken is is is such an an interesting social study because you see these kids these young men, I should say of all nationalities, all from all different kinds of backgrounds. Have the same sort of reaction, especially draft picks one through ten but really all of them. They'd get this dreamed of getting their name called, you know, and they're ready to run into a brick wall. You know, they're almost programmed in that way based off of the nature of the sport. And what what you think is promised for you that rainbow which is the NFL in what I mean. And once you get there, it totally changes, the whole perspective changes. And and and unfortunately, NFL release downs for not for long, and there's not a, you know, you get a sort of a crash course in how to be a professional, but. It's not really instituted early on in these young men's life and more often than not they learned the hard way. I think there's a documentary that's called a broke. And you know, it's, you know, was the average life expectancy is three years after you know, after three years, they become, you know, bankrupt. So it it it is an interesting NFL. Specifically is such an interesting case studies for these young men in this country, and how they have to sort of turn it off, you know, after they're done playing and the learning curve, you know, is is is narrow I read this book where a reporter went behind the scenes with the jets for a year, and one of the things that I don't think I had thought about was the way that relative to other major American sports and major American professional sports. Because football happens once a week like the experience of playing it is dramatically different like baseball, and to a lesser extent basketball are defined by their grind, you know. Like, you have to show up every day and go, and you go, do you think, and you have your hurt, you know, if you're a pitcher your arm, always, you know, that kind of thing and in football because all of that week's worth of playing is distilled into one three and a half hours. He described the people basically like whole lives drove towards this unnatural high that they had to get to in order to make their bodies. Do the things that they had to do that was this physical hurting war that went on for a few hours once a week. And then they went home. Home and they got like a day off. And then it was back to building up to that again. Yeah. And they say also, especially when when young man start to get paid for the foot to do that the best ability is availability. So you talking about the grind of NBA season. Eighty two games in the in the the grind of of baseball season hockey to to a certain extent. I, you know, it's you you get another one the next day or the day after you know, Sundays, you gotta wait a whole other week. But that being said you can't. And that's why I say not for long, you know, a lot of money contracts are are are incentive based on a veil ability. If you can get a certain amount of yards if you play a certain if you participate in a certain amount of plays. I found out that you get a bonus, you know, so so being available or being able to work through injuries because there's a difference between you know, being hurt and being injured those that sort of. Gets rewarded unfortunately on the back in when it's over the hasn't been much. I mean they've worked on compensation, you know, after football. But it's still a discussion topic of discussion. Then I mean football contracts are generally not guaranteed so signing bonus s that's what you play for basically. That's the only thing guaranteed upfront money, but they can they can terminate your contract in anytime, and you split ways if you get offered one hundred million dollars for four years, but you get you know, thirty of it up front the second year, they can cut ties, and you don't get the rest of your money. It's eye. Jesse thorn, my guest this week is John David Washington. He's in the Spike Lee movie black klansman, which is out now when you additional and for ballers, you were still in a boot from the injury that ended your football career. Was it just a well? What's the worst that could happen situation? When when you took that meeting, or whatever it's called went out to that the media of. Yeah, I was in a boon crutches on a strong dose of painkillers now. I prepared for the audition. I'd been working work in the scenes with my mom, actually, she's doing a drop me off too. So shout out to Paul that. So I got up there with Sheila Jaffe, well, call my other mother in the in the industry, and I thought that. Yeah. I mean, I've been turned down so many times in NFL. I I'm sort of you know, I'm I'm sort of used to I'm sort of impervious to this pain and rejection. So I I was the worst that can happen. I guess I had nothing to lose. And I'm feeling pretty good on on these on the medication. So why not you know, what I mean? But like I knew how much I want. It wasn't. Why not like sure I'll try acting wasn't like that. In fact, my agent who Andrew Finkelstein who told me about the audition. I was resistant at first because I wanted to come here to New York and study for a year at least and then start going on issues. And he says he told me that you know, you you're not going to get the job. You're not gonna get a lot of jobs, you're gonna get turned down a lot. But you need to get used to audition getting in the room and getting comfortable studied to not studied house. Like, oh, that's a good point. And I'm used to getting rejected. Anyway. So I I can do that. So the plan was going there go into this audition, and sort of, you know, get get torn up. Tell me what to work on a sort of apply. Those things when I got to New York and started studying and the craziest things started happening. They just kept inviting me back kept inviting me back in ten this later. Got it. Does you say ten ten ten additions? Yeah. That's a lot of additions do. Yeah. Well, because they were like they had to be sure I mean, you know, this guy's basically coming off the street like the. Couldn't believe I mean, it was it was a huge. I had to fight. I had to fight those a lot of people trying to get that job. And and they had to be sure Sheila Jeffey, I got a shot her up Peterberg H B O. They supported me. I there was still some resistance. But those that the Peterberg Sheila Jaffe and Papa Dave Levinson. They they really backed me they were in my corner. And the Sheila Jaffe actually after the third audition shot me, a text telling me he should retire from football like you were meant to do this. And I think that you know, they couldn't believe that you know, I've never done it before. So I I'm I love her to death for that. Let's hear a little bit from the first season of ballers from a few years ago. So in this scene, Ricky arrange to meet with his ex girlfriend Annabella played by Annabella Kosta and Annabella called Bella left Ricky because she was fed up with his cheating, and they're standing in front of a public fountain. And Ricky is holding a bouquet of ROY. Roses and lilies. Phil, I'm sorry. I lost my head. I'm sorry for everything. Keep feeding my mistakes, but I'm trying to change things. Wow. Written. You can't be seven carriage series. Do you think? You really believe you're ready for marriage. Because after all I mean, you know, this is Jason right? Because I know you don't think I'm so stupid throughout with acceptable the politics. No, baby. No, baby. So how it got even the whole? Tim by forgiveness. Maybe that's that's a four hundred thousand dollars spent four million delusional. It makes more than me. They've come back. I got it. I got baby. You we can get better. If you want to we could get married if you want to. My. Rickie jared. He's he's crazy. What did you realize you? I mean, you had spent your whole life with dad who was in movies for when you were little he was you know, he was a new actor by the time, you were an adult. He was a movie star. You know, you had been in your in Malcolm X. You'd you'd you'd done this to some this has been a huge part of your life your entire life. But when you showed up for set is basically a greenhorn. What did you realize you did not know? What did I realize everything you know, how to read a call? She, you know, just just what blocking I act like I did. But I was like what is this? What would what is called time me? You know, I was like available ignorant to a lot of that stuff. And, you know rehearsal when we would rehearse, you know, I'm like going full tilt like I'm like reserve in anything for for for the scene. And I was just ready to go at all time every take. Yes. Yes. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I mean, I'm always ready, but just I was just so I had a very still very much a football very much a football mentality and was wearing myself out, you know, I slept. Well that first day, and and that's one of the first day also was was a club scene. So like, it was like a whole bunch of extras in here comes the rock and and p burgers like ready because I know that they, you know, this still taking a chance on me. I did because she lost. So says some people are great auditioners. And they and they can't then they don't step up to the plate when his game time. Others aren't very good auditioners a great when they get the job. So I knew I had a lot of pressure on me. And I wanted to make them right? Because they fought for me because there were some people that that didn't necessarily believe. So they did. So. So I I had a lot on the line. And I just I just went for it. I just went for it. But I'm definitely looking around like peed in that at at the rock in that, Omar in all these extras, and I'm like man, this is crazy. What what what have I done? What way I think? Wait, let's time out guys time out. I need another month. You know? But now I went for I went for how did you get black Landsman? Got a text message from Spike Lee saying. Saying we have this story. Yeah. I mean right now, you don't everybody gets text from him. Right. I mean, I say yoda's, spike. Call me in those exact words, despite call me, I. I'm thinking this is a print here. I definitely think here my number. So I didn't know what was going on. But I call them because I I need. This would be great. I need the job. You know, I'm out here, you know, trying to get jobs, so I'll call them, and he and he sort of soft pitched me the story about a the the first African American detective in Colorado Springs, infiltrates, the Ku Klux Klan. Now, I'm thinking, you know, was it. The car is a Carlos Bixby the bigs we saw a skit by Dave Chapelle. I'm like is this some sort of play on that. But I'm in because Jordan Peele in spike are in so I'm in, but he says, no there's a book, and he's going to send it to me sends me the book round stalwarts black klansman. I read it in a call him back. And I I'm blown away. I tell them how much I loved it. And he said, I don't see this some. Got it. I done a movie for his wife who produced this movie called monster the premiered in Sundance last year. So he was familiar with that. And and some stuff on ballers. So, you know, he knew with I mean, he he knew of my work. But yeah, that was basically the audition process. More of my interview with John David Washington after a quick break. He'll tell me about what it was like to be in black klansman. And particularly what it was like to learn to empathize with a cop. It's Wolsey for maximum, fun dot org and NPR. This message comes from NPR sponsor Ari Ari. I believe that a life outdoors is a life welled land and the half for eighty years. So check out their podcast wild ideas worth living for inspiring stories of people and taking the road, less traveled here from explorers, athletes, authors and experts in the field follow how they're taking wild ideas and making them a reality everyday. Find it on apple podcasts Spotify, Stitcher or wherever you listen to podcasts. Angie? Thomas went from church secretary to bestselling author with her book, the hate you. Give dang I just can't come out the house. Now, look any kind of way somebody like Thomas was in Kroger in her robe what? She tells me what's in book number two this week on. It's been a minute from NPR everyone. It's John Roderick from the friendly fire podcast here with Adam Prenton, and Ben Harrison. When was the last time you really liked watching the lower filled with friendly fire. You get to do with us. You don't even necessarily have to have seen the movie to get a lot out of an episode of friendly fire, in many cases, we would recommend that you not watch the movie because there are some really really bad war movies, but Abed war movie makes a great war movie podcast. And in all cases, we recommend you listen to our show. So subscribing download to friendly fire wherever you get your podcasts to the Victor, go. The spoiler alerts. It's bulls eye. Jesse thorn in the studio with John David Washington. He's the star of black klansman. He also plays the NFL player. Ricky Jarrett on HBO's ballers. Let's hear another scene from black klansman, and my guess, John David Washington, who's the star of the film. So John David's character and his partner flip who's played by driver are at the police station, and they've just come back from this is relatively early in the film, an undercover an undercover operation at a meeting at a Klan meeting and flip who is white. And is the in-person Ron is upset because his cover was almost blown by one of the Klansmen who's very suspicious of him. And that guy basically just tried to get him to take a lie detector test at gun point. And also drop his trousers to prove that he was not Jewish only very narrowly escaped the situation. Trap, the pecker wood had a gun in my face, and he was an error away from pulling the trigger and he didn't. But he could have then I would have been dead for what stopping some jerk from playing dress up flippant into. I'm not risking my life to prevent some rednecks from money a couple of six on fire. This is the job. What's your problem? That's my problem for you. It's a crusade for me. It's a job. It's not personal. No. Should it? Be. Why haven't you bought into this? Why should I if because you're Jewish brother the sole called chosen people you've been passing for a wasp white Anglo Saxon Protestant cherry pie hotdog white. Boy. It's what some light skinned black folks to they pass for white doesn't that hatred? You've been hearing the clan say doesn't that piss you off? Of course, it does. And why are you acting like you ain't got skin in the game brother rookie? That's Mike can business. Business. Your voice is so important in this film. You mean the Ed to convince the David had David Duke convinced and clans members convinced that he was a racist. White man, you're making choices both when he is on and off the phone like I feel like this would be a different story. If the premise was that he was doing, you know, the white voice direct one to one code switching. If he was doing a white people voice on the phone, and and black people voice off the phone in the in the ways that people think of them, it would be a less complex story for this character than the way that you chose to do it that was another. What was so compelling about the book, even just how he, you know, Ron Starr, we've talked about this that he he didn't change his voice at all. You know what I mean? And I love that you know, the whole. As we understand coats, which in and all that he he saw it as he had he got into character as as an undercover detective does he talked about that, you know, being like acting and getting into character he had to speak these words of hatred the vernacular of of racism in. Hey put, but he didn't change the, you know, his voice at all. So I couldn't have either I shouldn't have either. I would I would have done a disservice to to the man into the film. If I if I had it if I'd have done that. So I just wanted to keep it as authentic as possible. And and be able to to to also understand as I did reading it in doing research how complicated it is to be an African American detective police officer in this country now blue enough for the department. I black Nuffield community they know and to be able to display that us in the manically was a great opportunity for me to to. Explorer? It was it was something very curious about and wanted to to invent a lot to me to be able to to to put on display how thankless of a job it is. And how we as a community need to be especially in the African American community needs to be more specific with our contentions with with, you know, with, you know, how we feel about law enforcement, you know, because there are there are some cases out there. I think I think all with his an American hero during his investigation. There were no cross burnings there were no terrorist acts violent acts on in the community during that time. That's a big deal to me. That's a big deal because he wasn't trying to change the world. And it was also big deal that he had gotten great support from what officers, that's you know, that helped him in. This case wasn't just one man on a mission. You know, you know, is sending you know, movie wise, I'd have been convenient. But it wasn't and a spike held net. True to be. True in the film as well. So that that was a big deal to me. That's that's roic that he is has a job. And and I'm just glad because of the it's such a Hugh Neak case in story that I'm just so happy and proud to be a part of telling us story and a movie your character's girlfriend in the film is an activist who is opposed to the police in the United States pretty directly, and there were criticisms of the film, including from boots Riley who has been guest on this show. And is a guy I've known for a long time bay area. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Total teenage hero of mine. And who who are critical of the idea that in a story about race in America. A police officer should be a hero. How did you feel about that was that something that you've thought about before that came up after the movie came out? No and sat out to boost Riley. I saw his film. And that was that was it was crazy, and we never seen anything like that. You know that was seen anything like it. And I think it's important that we're in a great time right now in film and cinema in this business that we're getting opportunities to to tell our stories in certain parts of the world. Certain communities are getting are stories out there that they're putting money. They're funding. These ideas in these these great writers and directors out there. So that's it's it's all positive, but it's forgive me. But I I don't wanna like I don't wanna give the impression that it's like a binary between this movie, and that movie because that I know how much boots admire Spike, Lee and his work, and how much about the film, he also admired. And he he made he worked very hard to to make that clear when he was being critical. Well, I again, I I kind of luted tutor earlier I before the research before I got, and I did another film. Call Mosser's and men, and I got to do ride alongs for about a month and a half and be with a lot of police officers of color. I didn't realize what they went through. You know? So like, Laura Harrier's character. I I would probably would have been more on that side until I got the full perspective fuller more clear perspective on what they do. There's a lot of you know, men and women in the minority that that are protecting serving that don't get. Thank you that are that get nothing but criticism getting lumped into a lot of police officers that have abused their power that are incompetent. And how they you know, how they handle things. So I was very important for me. This is a man roster was a mammal great integrity. You know? He he didn't he was unapologetically black. You know, he'll tell you that. He was a man of his community. You know, I think these he says it to to the love interest to Laura's character towards the end like just because I don't wear a black beret, plaque gloves or leather jagged that I'm not for the liberation of my people. He feels like there's a way to do it from the inside. There's a way to do it in the law was on his side when confronting David Duke, you know, and you know, that you could make a movie about how he even came into being a police how he got to become a detective of police a Colorado Springs detective, I mean in the seventies. So to me, the what I listed earlier about why he's a heroes. Because of he was successful in his mission. Makes is what I has how I would respond. You know, again, this is one case, this is this is a man that that was acceptable in this case. And he did it. He to me. He did it the right way. John, David Washington. I'm so grateful. You came on bullseye was so. So so great to get to talk to you. And thanks for your wonderful work in this in this movie and elsewhere. I appreciate that so much thanks for having me. This was great John, David Washington. He stars on the big screen in black cleanse men and on the small one in HBO's ballers. We've come to the end of another episode of bullseye bulls eye is recorded at maximum fund dot org world headquarters. Overlooking MacArthur park in beautiful Los Angeles, California where review our fill in producers saw allay feeding the birds and ducks in the middle of thunderstorm, which really gives the lie to that idea that people in L A can't handle the rain. I also saw hide their teen or tween throwing too heavy bags into the lake, and I have no idea what was inside them. No idea. There were a lot of theories in the office, but we could not come up with any definitive answers. The show is produced by speaking into microphones, our producer is Kevin Ferguson. He's lolly gagging around in Italy. So reduce monovalent filled in for him. Hey, sue, some Brosio is our associate producer. We got help from Casey O'Brien production fellow at max. Madam fund dot org is shayna delory our interest in music comes to us from Dan Wally aka d j w thanks as always to Dan for sharing it. Our theme. Song comes from the go team. Thank you to them and to their label. Memphis industries who led us use that music for free. 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Maya Erskine and Anna Konkle, PEN15 creators and stars
"Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fun dot Org and is distributed by. NPR. It's Bullseye Jessie. Penn fifteen is a show about Middle School Oregon. This might be more accurate it's about. The Middle School experience you might have actually had there's the time it said in for starters the year two thousand there are plenty of songs by in sync and lit and Mandy Moore the characters where BB tanks, rough riders, t shirts, ufo pants. It's a fun to style jet trip sort of like lady bird but Penn fifteen also digs deeper into what it means to be twelve or thirteen. A. Time in your life when a lot of kids are very, very insecure asking themselves questions like is my body changing or why is it my body changing or why don't I have more friends or how am I supposed to? Talk to. People. It's a show about kids that definitely isn't for kids sex administration come up. We'll talk about that later in the interview last year I talked with Anaconda and Myers and there the creators and stars of Penn. Fifteen. Its second season is coming to Hulu next week. So we figured we'd replay their interview because the show is fantastic and my Anna are themselves. Really Great. As I mentioned their real life best friends and on ten fifteen, they play middle school aged versions of themselves. Maya has a brutal bowl cut anna has braces. They're starting seventh grade at the beginning of the show in. Six grade wasn't great but they have a pretty good feeling that this year is going to be different. Ask You something I want you to tell me the truth where on your life so where? Do I look exactly the same as last year? Be Mad dog not. From. What are you GonNa wear tomorrow and my blue shirt with. The stripes. But like I'm also thinking why no raw. Let's like really smart a need it for Nipples. Yeah I feel like we should make a pact. Looks like let's say everything together. Yeah. No all our I like our first kiss off the Noda. Feel. Seven grade and you're gonNA be so it's GonNa be really really to be like the best year for. Came amicable bills. I it's great to have you guys on the shelf. Thanks and congratulations on this on this awesome TV show that you're making. Thank you. Thank you. I kind of feel like I have spent the last. Twenty, five ish years trying to run from middle school. So how did the two of you come to embrace it so deeply? Fits ever. If we'll ever fully embrace it because it's just the time of horror, but we decided to start talking about it and sharing it with each other. Yeah. It just was for both of us the most traumatic time. So it was. A topic that. Anna, and I are very drawn to trauma. Talking about it and finding the humor in it and processing it. So that was sort of our heads just went for a long time. My mother-in-law's a marriage and family therapist and and she helped found this organization called girl circle where adolescent girls get together to like work through their problems together. And motion emotional challenges and. She was explaining to me one day a few years ago that one of the big problems with middle school, is it because it sixth seventh and eighth grade which is you know one of the most sensitive times in people's lives were the most changes happening. And also because. There is such a small group of ages. There's very little social modeling. So the six graders don't have anyone to model for and the eighth graders don't have anyone to model for them, and so that basically turns it into Lord of the flies. That part of it. Just the happenstance that in you know eighteen sixty seven somebody decided to chop this three years out of the middle of education. Means that you're just completely flying blind for those three years of your life. Yeah. It's. It's pretty it's pretty strange and I think that that's where for us the humor comes from in terms of like your brain for the first time changing from child and actually like neurologically more able to process adult things that you actually couldn't before. But the that you do not have the skills to cope with. So you're just pretending you're flying blind like you said, there's a lot of, for us, humor in that type of character where it's like, I know how to do this and you don't know how to do this right you know, right? Yeah. And also the just the straddling between childhood and adulthood or between them is like such a ripe moment for all these this pain and and holding on to your childhood because you want to still be loved by your parents and you think that's the only way to be loved and yet you WanNa also experience sexual things, but you don't know how to do that. So. Time of a lot of fumbling around. Yeah. A lot of mess ups. Do you have a? Like A familiar or easy to access relationship with that part of your life or has it disappeared into the missile time. It feels very present for me. Yeah me too and I think part of Mayan I became like real life best friends maybe twelve years ago and I'm realizing now how much I was drawn to her because Of Her. Honesty and I'm kind of the same way think like there's an over sharing thing that can sometimes be a problem. But it was so refreshing to me here as woman that is like talented and funny and Nice and all those things, and then she's also talking about masturbation and it's funny and real and it scared me at the time to is was like Oh my God she's talking about these things that other women around me at least aren't talking about. And and and it's important. But I guess I didn't even know that it was important at that time. I was just like that's funny and I think same here except for me the way for me to deal with the shame that I had around things that I was going through at the age of thirteen like masturbation and getting my period and being ashamed of that the way that I processed it was by. Talking about it in a funny way and that happened in college and when people didn't run away with disgust and throw rocks at me I was like, okay. This is okay to talk about this works but I still don't I think I'm still learning to feel good about it like it's not like it cured it. In a year it's just yeah, and weirdly for me I think and this is sort of like a fateful thing. But my shame of that age with like stuff that was going on with my parents fighting that was a secret for me and then not feeling lovable and that all kind of began at that age and I also like would joke like sense of humor like joke about and talk about it too much and so there's something bonding time kind of has been very visceral. I. Think for us always did either of you have the kind of middle school where you have to undress in front of your classmates like an locker room or something. I didn't where did you address I? We we had bathrooms. No just not stalls actually they were single bathrooms and people change at different times into their p. e. shorts and shirts. When some when you had gym class, we didn't have a locker room. That's peculiar. I had the same experience I went to a very small middle school the the con self consciousness I remember about it was that it was a private school and all the other kids I I was like the scholarship kit and all the other kids you had to buy school clothes to wear for gym like t shirts and sweatshirts and sweatpants. and. Like my parents could only afford to buy me one set of them. Oh and all the other. It's like a Brian Yeah. I WANNA. Go seems way less bad than checking out who doesn't doesn't have pukes he I didn't I we never got like totally naked that I can remember but there but I may have blocked it out There were showers people some people would shower but like I was private with it, you know I would like was self conscious you know but I do remember wearing the rip away pants in and they were like knockoff Dita's in gem and then like boys would pull. Read them open and I remember wearing a Thong, one of the first times and and not being outed and everyone's like Oh, and the teacher last like this. This is wrong. You get really skilled at hiding or maybe you think you're skilled at hiding your body parts as you're changing because I remember I had my period and I would. Wear. where I created my own pads with toilet paper that would be these thick books of paper established in my underwear, and I you know it would push it out blow to my knees basically and so I would have to. I would have to learn how to in front of girls if we were changing at a store or something hide that and you know right I think I got away with it. When you say you had your own homemade, PAT was that because you did not have access to other products commercially made one. Yeah. I didn't tell my parents and so and I didn't tell anyone I was so your parents about. Coming to visit now I, hit it for a year and then I remember telling them as if it was the first time I got it and they took me out to dinner and gave me a necklace. I was like good cheap one. I was like thanks guys. Yeah. When I felt prepared but I, my mom's still thinks I'm lying to this day that I lied about it. She thinks I'm showing off to friends when I say I'm like no I actually lied. But We're not technically friends, but I'm pretty impressed. I mean I would roll. Yeah. Toilet paper because it was just my instinct to do that, and this is a good instinct. I. Didn't want to take a Tampon and I wasn't ready to learn scary yeah I on the other hand told my mom I got my period late compared to friends and like. Once a year for like four years. I'd be like, thank God it. Shots funny that. Yeah and I to be like still now, I'll know and then finally I got it and she bought me like special underwear Victoria secret. So there's that. Too opposite. To begin and Yang, Yang Shang. were either of you concerned with violence of any kind when you were in middle school I mean within the schools are just in general? Yes. We're in general my my parents fought a lot which is in the show so I think I I was really used to you know a home where behind closed doors it was crazy and unhappy. But the norm and what they taught me and and I know that feel bad about that. Now is as you go to school and you confront the public with the very happy face, and if anyone asks you how how are your parents or House you say great. But then with that said, I did start asking therapist when I was like eleven. I'm told my therapist and they were. But that was that was the majority of of the of the biggest conflict in my life probably. I was never afraid of physical violence, just mental violence from the girls. I think that's a that's A. Girl thing that I didn't have to deal with as a boy largely. Can Be pretty vicious. Yeah, and complex at that age. Yeah. I'm remembering and I would I oh, I actually I was kind of like scared of. Violence weirdly like when I was in four ray has gone something when I was in. Fourth Grade. There was a fifth grader who told me that all the fifth graders wanted to beat me up. It's. After school program, which was like this woman whose house we would go to was really nice. and. She was like I I hate to tell you this but all the fifth graders WANNA be. which is. So sensitive I took it. So seriously months every time I just remember being in line in elementary school because you'd walk to the art class in line you'd walk to Jim in line whenever like walk in line and then the fifth graders would I'll walk in line in my mind they're all just like glaring at me you know just wanted to beat my Prison Yard and didn't know why she wouldn't tell me why he told my friends like this. This is why I don't know why and then eventually months later I. brought it up again just like Oh that yeah no, no my my older sister did that to me when I was in fourth grade I made that up psychotic. and. Then someone else told me they were gonNA kill me. They were GonNa Kill Me Kill me and I was a freshman in high school if I went to Prom with a certain person. That she she goes. If you come to prom you better bring a grave because you're. GonNa die. You got a lot of. I always, very scared about too. There's a lot of violence. Last. One two also feels like a riddle of sometimes. How do you bring a grave? Exactly bullies can be smart. Yeah unfortunately. Yeah. Got To bring you grave and it's good line. It's stuck with me. Yeah. How could it lead us to her? More with. My Erskine and Anna Conqueror after a quick break. When we come back my an Anna cast Richard Karn to play Maya's Dad Richard Karn. Of course you probably know as Ou- from home improvement and they'll tell me why they wanted. Al From Home Improvement for the part. It's Bullseye. From maximum fund DOT ORG NPR. On facebook, there are these three brothers who love guns say guns are over-regulated. Say the NRA is too quick to compromise and they're gaining more followers every day they're very in your face and offensive and by God I, love him for it. Listen now to the no compromise podcast from NPR. Hi. My name is Graham Clark one half of the podcast stop podcasting yourself a show that we've record for many many years, and at the moment instead of being in person we're recording remotely and you wouldn't even notice you don't even notice the lag. That's right Graham and the great thing about. Go. Ahead. No you go ahead. Okay. Go ahead. And you can listen to us every week on maximum fun dot Org or wherever you get your podcasts, your podcasts. Welcome back to bulls. Hi I'm Jesse Thorn my guests are anecdotal and my skin they co created and star in the show Penn Fifteen. It's a brutally honest comedy about Middle School. Its second season is coming later this week to Hulu my Anna and I talked last year. Let's hear another clip from pen fifteen the new show from my guests Anaconda in my skin. So in this clip, Maya is going to ask out one of two boys that she thinks has a crush on her turns out they don't have a crush on her and they just called her uterus which stands for the ugliest girl in school. Lovely. frigging freak. Here If you just means Beautiful Unicorn then. Yeah. You you. You are you just then? Yeah you are no not the. Like I'm the ugliest girl in school you get that in your skull. Like the love me is the biggest insult lasts what it means. Then, I guess you know I've been insulted the greatest. For a little, my outline makes me laugh. And insulted the. Selena. Take it. What's amazing about it to me is obviously the two of you are playing middle schoolers hair. and. You have to balance as actors as adult actors the. Depth. The sincere depth of feeling that middle schoolers bring to. Anything. Watching cartoons after school anything. with this just. Painfully. INELEGANT, and in eloquent. There's a there's a point in the first one where where. Anna you say you say to Maya that she's the Rainbow Jell. Pen. And everyone else is a black or blue writing implement. That's about as close as it gets to a joke in the show right but sounds like the what's amazing about it is that it is such a deeply sincere feeling expressed. Self inelegantly. Yeah I think that something that I continue to rediscover is how not far away from that I feel now at thirty one and how I get better at faking it essentially, I know you know. If I slouched too much in the wrong place leg you look more insecure or I'm going to look his insecure as I feel or whatever, and and I think by the I was really afraid of playing thirteen. Because of it being an authentic and feeling like a big sketch and being silly and Blah Blah Blah and not wanting it to go that route. But by the end of going like, Oh, I right or wrong. This feels very close to who I am now unfortunately unfortunately and I think that. You know. Mayan I in real life are extremely close in share just everything there is, and so you know that's a huge gift to be able to act with her in the show and express you know. I'm I'm want to protect you and I wanna be there and and vice versa I mean there's so many like helpful layers and the show Oh yeah. No without even trying for us because our friendship is so. Deep, and complex and beautiful and supportive, and yet you know so. Just doing a scene with our dynamic comes through very easily. Yeah I feel like in each scene. Yeah, I agree. How does it? Look to have adults standing next to children, right? Yeah. Pretending to be children. Like how does that look and feel how do you address? Kissing Yeah How do you address the fact that you're probably bigger than children right like all these just regular things. So what have you learned about those regular things in making a season of the show I mean I think there's also a difference with men around kids as opposed to women. So there is a slight advantage I think in that way of, but we still had to talk at length about the scenes where you know 'cause Anna Salmon I really wanted to show middle school as it was so that does mean kissing that does mean sexual hookups but we don't want to ever do that with kids or put kids in that situation of course so. What we also didn't want it to like just piggybacking be a sketch and have it feel like now this is the joke, right? Yeah. We wanted to feel real not take you out but also keep the audience feeling safe that they're not taken out because they're worrying about the kids safety. So we talked at length about different ways cinematic learn how to capture. for example, Anna's I kiss without it feeling like a joke or raw wrong. So it was a risk, but it and close ups and having a body double, which actually happened to be Anna's boyfriend and are at home listeners Anna. Smiled fondly. Alexander Alexan- finger who went to high school with and he's a brilliant creator actor. that seem to work and when we go on for future seasons, if we get that look hopefully We're going to try to encounter other sexual more advanced situations, and that's where will most likely either US adults in those roles or. Find. Some other way we can. Tackle it without kids uncomfortable. What about as actors? Like one of the things that I find most impressive about the show is that. You. Each of you neither feel like you are doing a sketch comedy character nor like you are doing a. Broadly describes a one man show character. Can. It can be a remarkable. Thing you know anybody who seen Anna deavere Smith. Remark. It can you can transform herself with a few signifier is almost like a caricature today right but but that feeling of of lack. Of theatricality or mannered falseness. Is Absent. And it also doesn't feel like you're just doing a bit. Thank you. So what what do you have to do as an actor to? achieve that when you're standing next to actual. I feel like so much of the work was just. Like. They did just being in that environment and the proper clothes in the proper makeup and you know the extra hairs on the on the eyebrows and taking all the makeup off instead of putting it on, which is what we're so used to extra hairs in the eyebrow and the eyebrows and. Mustache. And then we strapped are. I'm sorry I'm so. How do you add here's to eyebrows like they're almost like They're tiny little hairs that are cut up and with glue like how people put on false. Yeah. Ashes they would just one by one play some on our eyebrows and they painted my mustache which blended well with groom. I have a furry face right? Did I don't anymore wing? Weight like they painted your natural mustache like they colored your hair. Out so I had some short stubs coming out. And then better real. Okay just clarifying and. And then they? She used brown pain and just you know paint accentuated. Yeah. Yeah. I think also and Salmon and I approach tried to approach everything with as much honesty as possible so. Every seen as an actor would be. With just being as honest and truthful as possible in the moment and I think you know that is a way into not. Geared towards sketch or caricature. Yeah. Anything Fun of it. Yeah. And I don't want to speak for you saying this but I know that like I felt like a hack while we were doing it because. Who Am I at thirty one to play a thirteen year old and off and honestly an authentic right but I decided to see. Playing my own age in a way like I was being myself without any zd adults. Facade Mike. It was really just. Our true selves. Yeah I really to that too. But yeah, definitely was questioning are acting at every moment. I want to play another clip from Penn fifteen in this Clip Maya's dad who's played by Richard Karn try to teach my how to play drums on a laundry basket. Okay. So start playing. Okay just don't say it like that. I I can say anything yes you can. You just shut up for a second because I was about to play and you're messing me I'll just Come on come down I. Am calm that I'm just trying to play for you. So can you like stop? Don't look at me like that is going to mess me up. Look away. Don't look at the drum literally look at that wall over there. And listen. I gotTa Stop You you're holding the malaise. Wrong. Let me show you. What to do if you can't play for me? How are you gonNa play for everyone else? Professional. Steely. Dan Cover band. Dad. Never will be if they don't know how to practice. Fine. It's on because of me. I looked at you wrong. Love that? It's hard to listen to much less watch because it reminds you of the overwhelmed that you feel as an adolescent. Or if you had a sister growing up the the whining and the tantrums I, I feel like a lot of people on set were like. Gave lead men are show runner he was like my that is I heard all of those screams all the time growing up. PTSD right now. Your parents on the show Maya are played by your mom. Yes and Richard Karn. Yes. The star of home improvement. That is very two very particular acting choices. They're both wonderful on the show they are but I imagine that they didn't come from cattle calls now absolutely. No I read recently someone someone called it a Karna Sant's yes I. Loved I love it good in it is. That was an offer and I'm so glad that he accepted. Richard Richard Mom. My mom was straight to. The pilot presentation and you know I made about thirty tapes with her in her living room, directing her and put my. In outside of whether they auditioned or got offers. You're making two very particular choices their. In casting your own natural. And Casting. You know one of the things about being on a hit Sitcom is that you carry with you this television friend that everyone had right for the rest of your life is a performer. He's a very gifted actor and also very gifted host, which is wh- what he's done at least as much of. Those days but you know it's You have you're making a show set in two thousand and you cast one of the stars of home improvement. You know what I mean right I mean I think that you know once he was willing to we like begged him to come in and read for us and he eventually did by there were two things going on where it was like he reminded us of Maya's real dad because we were trying to recreate these memories and then on top of that, see him in a role that we had an. In. So that as opposed to you know. Casting from a place of like. You don't want stunt cast with us. Just. Because they were a celebrity there was someone has the right person he had There was an essence there that reminded us of my real dad. Yeah. Exactly and then, and then it was just like an added bonus that there was me be this. Feeling with him while that, you maybe won't be able to put your finger on. Is that reminded me of my dad is reminding of that time or whatever, and then, and then on top of that, he's just a really talented actor and so it all lined up. So serendipitous late that was a really hard part to cast We're so lucky we got him one of my most vivid memories of Middle School is. The girls in the back of a van doing seventeen magazine quizzes with each other. And I we loaded up this quiz. Are you really best friends? From Seventeen magazine. God. So the first question is you know that your friends crush is in them, but they still plan on asking them out what do you do? Your choices are saying nothing you don't WanNa. Risk your friend getting mad at you or explain why it might just end up hurting them in the end I tell my friend I would tell my friends slowly but surely, yeah. Okay. That happened to me but they said the exact words which was. Would you go out with my hell? No that ugly. And she reported it back word for word. A seemed like could use some softening. Your Bud wasn't invited to the biggest party of the year but you were you ask if they can come with war refuse to go without them. Sort of. happened. I feel like as a kid, it would have been be and as an adult. Go Out. Yeah. As you're leaving to meet your bud for a movie, your crush calls they. WanNa. Hang with you at the arcade next door to the movie theater. You text your friend, and ask if you would if they would be chill with you bailing for your crush or tell your crush, you already have plans. Crush already plans, but as a kid, I might be like by. would. I would do see which is try to see if my friend would come with me to the Arcadia. The go I don't know what that says about me, but that would definitely be my. Your third, willing all the way. All about a third wheel. You're hanging with your friend on the couch and the conversation dies. So you try and think of something to say, so no one gets bored. Or enjoy the silence you find just chilling quietly together, enjoy the silence. Yeah don't always my my Anna because you answered mostly with right. You're the best friend in their life. You constantly make the effort to show how much you value your friendship. You're honest with your friend and are there for the ups and downs you both plan to make this friendship, last a lifetime. So you might as well start looking at joint retirement packages. That was so amazing was really great I love that. Thank you and in my thank you so much for joining me on Bullseye. It was really nice to talk to you. I really love your show congratulations on it. Thanks for hanging. My skin and Anna cockle everyone pen fifteen is a fun moving totally unique show. Its second season comes to Hulu September eighteenth. Now's a great time to Binge Watch the first season if you haven't seen it already. That's the end of another episode of Bullseye. Bullseye is produced out of the homes of me and the staff of maximum fund in and around Greater Los Angeles California a city which has turned orange. And Burns your lungs. When you go out of doors, my understanding from the New York Times wire cutter is that pretty decent substitute for an air purifier if you haven't got one is to just take an h VAC filter and tape it to a box fan. So that's our recommendation to anybody who doesn't have food an air purifier right now here on the West Coast our show is produced by speaking into microphones, our producer Kevin Ferguson Hey. Soussan Broszio Jordan cowling are associate producers we help from Casey O'Brien are interstitial music is by Dan Wally also known as j w our theme song is by the Great Band the go team thanks to them and their label Memphis Industries for letting US use it. You can also keep up with the show on facebook twitter and youtube just search for Bullseye with Jesse Thorn I, think that's about it just remember all radials host have a signature signed. Bullseye with Jesse. Thorn. Is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR.
Susan Orlean, author of "The Library Book"
"Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR. Uh Jesse Thorn. It's Bullseye replaying. A couple of our favorite interviews with Bullseye guests. From past and next up is the great choosing or leaf in two thousand eighteen. Susan is a staff writer at the New Yorker. Her work has also appeared in vogue and esquire this American life. She's the author of eight books covering topics like New England. Saturday night across America and people who are fanatical about four kids that last book the orchid thief ended up being on the basis of the Academy Award Nominated Film Adaptation. Susan is also a disarming interview a meticulous researcher and a beautiful writer these days as she lives here in Los Angeles most of the time and being an author and reader. She has visited the beautiful historic Central Library. Dozens and dozens of times. Her latest book is about that library and its history and the devastating fire that almost demolished it in nineteen eighty-six the we'll also also kind of a pay on to libraries everywhere. What they mean to hurt us and why every library is a vital institution? She called it the library rebe book. I really love it. Okay let's get to our interview. Susan Orlean Welcome back a bullseye. Always happy to see you. It's great to be with you. Susan what is your relationship with libraries personally other than your obvious financial relationships one would hope. Well I grew up going to the library very that was very much a part of my childhood. My parents were great library goers they. I didn't really believe in buying books. They've I think they felt like. Why would you buy a book? You can go to the Library and borrow the book and if it's not in you put your name on a hold list and you get it when it's available and they were born in the depression and I'm sure that's a lot of it. which is that buying books? Seem Bit of an indulgence. That wasn't necessary. I grew up going to the library a couple times a week with my mom and I found it absolutely magical it was not like going to a bookstore or toys store. It would partly because there was no money honey. There was no financial relationship. And when your kid the idea that you can have anything you want is really intoxicating at a library is on on a real short list of places that welcome everyone including kids. Who are a hassle right? Well and I do think that in in the last twenty years we've as a society become more and more conscious kind of call it the starbucks effect act. We've become conscious of how there's home and there's your work place and there's kind of a desire for another place somewhere to go somewhere to see other humans and just sort of share the space with them. It's I think it's why people go to co working spaces. I think it's why people go to public parks even if they've got backyard. There's something very very special about being somewhere around other people and you're not there to interact with them. You're just sharing the space with them. That's definitely some equality of libraries. I mean they're they're closest analogue is probably a public park. There serve their things wants to do in a park. And there's you know God knows what the city offers but sometimes is just kind of Nice to be there and there are other people there. It's it's also a space that we share with a variety of people. It's not a mediated group of people. It's a chance that you're going to encounter a huge range of people which for some it's kind of discomfiting but for other other people you can make the argument that it's kind of an opportunity to really see your community you ever for the New Yorker for thirty a some years and you're a New Yorker for a long time. How did your experience of living in Los Angeles compared compared to your expectations about Los Angeles? I had traveled here a lot over the years before I moved here and and had been downtown once as far as I knew My expectation of Los Angeles was that I I would never spend time downtown and at the time I moved here which is now seven years ago downtown was just on the brink of really changing and revitalizing and repopulating. I never imagined that I would be doing a book about the library. I moved to Los Angeles because my husband was asked to help with the company that was starting up on. We thought though that'd be fun we'll go. Oh for a year. We'll get some nice weather and go back to New York at the end of the year being here I was given a tour of the downtown Library Library and first of all I thought. Oh my God. This building is amazing. It's a beautiful building and a very eccentric interesting piece of architecture. Nineteen nineteen twenty s era but inflicted with all of this sort of addiction and Moroccan kind of Aesthetic Attic. It's it's a really interesting building so I was kind of struck immediately. Just about what a cool building it was and how I had never been downtown downtown to see it but walking through the library and thinking boy this is just an incredible repository of amazing stories stories. I was being told some of the stories of of various city librarians. who had run the library over the years? Many of whom were incredibly eccentric trick fascinating figures and I found myself just being drawn in more and more thinking my God. This is an amazing place. Somebody should write about up this not thinking that somebody was me and right at the moment the person giving me the tour had pulled one of the books off a shelf and took a deep whiff of the book. I thought well I guess I'm in a new city where people do things like smell books is and I I kind of dismissed it until he said well you can still smell the smoke in some of them. I thought Oh how they used to let people smoke and the library. That seemed very bold and I said well you know was back when they allowed smoking and and he said No. They didn't have allow smoking in the building. It was from the fire. I said what fire he said. The big fire the big fire in nineteen eighty six. And I said I don't know what you're talking about. He said will. The big fire closed the library down for seven years. And you know he moved on and I was going like what was stopped. So would no no. I don't WanNa see the next room. I want to hear about this fire. That was the moment uh-huh and where that frame of this is. A great story really truly clicked into place and became a real story in my head. which was I wanted to read about the library? And in this case the library had had this dramatic event that really shaped it in many ways and it coalesced into a real story for me and I knew immediately I just thought I'm doing a a buck about this. So your book has a few lines of inquiry and one of them is a sort of a behind the scenes at the library. You skulking from department to Department Figuring out all the interesting things that that happened in in a library one of them is the history of its directors which is possible since it's only existed for one hundred thirty years or whatever it is and one one of the directors that stood out to me was Charles Lumps. The thing that I think is really particularly fascinating about lumps. That makes him so important to the story. Is that really his role in the history of Los Angeles and partly in the history of America is is as an advocate for an American identity that represented this part of America. ARCA right but it was like more than Boston Philadelphia New York but it included the Navajo and it included the me walk and it included all the Pa- this the Spanish that seems like a big deal and it seems like part of off. Maybe why they thought it was a good idea for him to run the library despite him having no library experience because the library in part may be was an assertion of identity. I think that he he is really important. In that sense that Los Angeles was no longer certainly as he could influence not no longer trying to ape the culture of New York or Philadelphia or Chicago but instead was having a sense of itself as a distinct place with its own identity. It's it's funny for us to imagine now seeing Los Angeles as it is now that the idea that you would build buildings that had a Spanish influence. That was just not done. You were trying at before this identity. Really kind of took hold. It was an effort for to make L. A.. Look like the big cities of the northeast. A sense of history of what had been here and who had been here was that was new. I mean his influence to say with. This is what Los Angeles is. He was the founder of the the Southwest Museum Museum. That stuff wasn't being collected or preserved in any way it was very radical. Actually what he did and it's interesting because he didn't grow up here. He was definitely a transplant but he really truly fell in love with the essential old old California character of this this amalgam of Spanish culture and native American culture and and the new culture of people moving being in and identifying at and really preserving it and celebrating it like most of the the most of the important books of the early Los Angeles Library at least as you describe it and I believe you are about citrus for right and sheep she pershing and yeah I mean the the initial I mean gives you a real sense of the difference in what was going on in La at the turn the century versus New York City which had a well established library. That was already Building a collection of you've important literary works the among the initial purchases of the L. A. Library when it was an association was formed to have a library happen were books about citrus about beekeeping 'em this was a country mm tree town it was a couple thousand people was not a significant city and then one of the other themes that continued. which was interesting? Is that the library existed in rented space for very long time people. Obviously obviously you can just imagine what the New York Public Library. The main branch and the New York Public Library looks like that was the giant libraries of New York and Boston. And all these cities. Yeah been cities since the Eighteenth Century and in the meantime Los Angeles at that point had a library that was on. The upper floor are of a department store and you would ride the elevator along with people were going shopping for brassieres. And you know they they would get off on the brassiere floor or the floor with children's clothing and you would ride on up go to the library and one of the it was a cause for much embarrassment in the city. This feeling that will L. A. couldn't possibly be an intellectual center if it it didn't have a library more with Susan Orlean after a quick break. They never convicted anyone. Starting the nineteen eighty six library fire. Susan will tell me why when she. She started her library book. She thought she could solve the case. It's bulls eye for maximum fun dot org and NPR. who was cost him soleil the money and what exactly was his role Iran this week on through line of the assassinated Iranian general and the organization he represented have shaped the relationship attention between the US and Iran for decades? That's this week on through line from NPR. The podcast where we go back in time to understand the present I also reading glasses because brea and mallory have great tips your comics reader and you WANNA use a library connected APP. You can try out HOOPLA. I listen for the author interviews news that I waited as long as I did to start reading Joan did they give me reading advice. I didn't even know needed. If you go in person to an event then go up to an author or a filmmaker. Anybody tell them what they like about their work. Eurotrash baby look I understand. You didn't like heroes season three. That's fine I don't actually need to know that information. I'm brea grant and I'm Mallory o'mara we're reading glasses and we solve all your problems every Thursday on maximum fund. Welcome back to bulls. Hi I'm Jesse. Thorn were replaying my twenty eighteen conversation with the writer Susan Orlean she writes for The New Yorker among and many other publications her books include the orchid thief Rin Tin Tin and Saturday night. Her newest tells the story of the Los Angeles Public Library and and the world of Los Angeles Public Library so much more. It's called the library puck. It's out now in paperback. Let's talk about the fire. Fire that destroyed a substantial portion of the central library and particularly a substantial portion of the collection It was driven by these stacks that basically functioned like a like a charcoal chimney for your barbecue or grill and the the fire was absolutely catastrophic. Wh what was the proportion of books that were destroyed droid and or damaged by fire. There were a million books either destroyed or damaged and that was about The little more than fifty percent of the entire collection four hundred thousand were they were vaporized. Basically I mean this was a fire that burn for seven and a half hours it reached temperatures of twenty five hundred degrees. And as you say the stacks which were the the area where the books that aren't out in the open shelves are stored in these stacks and that's typical for a library but the division between the different tiers within in the stack Rather than being a ceiling which would keep a fire contained. They were open grading so the fire. Basically just these are seven tears tall and the fire simply just blasted through all seven tears. It couldn't have been a better set up for a fire. I mean this was a fire where these spaces had grown so hot that firefighters were having having to leave after like five and ten minutes simply because they couldn't physically be there just because he got so hot inside the building. Yeah I mean that's an amazing. Using they had these oxygen canisters that would normally lasts an hour and they were breathing so heavily because they were so hot that the canisters were lasting lasting about ten minutes and they went through more than a thousand of these oxygen canisters and they had to keep swapping the teams out because nobody It was just too hot to be in their twenty. Five hundred degrees. Doesn't matter if you're in a of fire suit it's just unbearable unbearable at one point over half of the entire city of Los Angeles Fire Department. It was working to try to put this fire out and they ended up relying on the county to staff the fire. A your houses around the city because nobody was around they were all at the library trying to put the fire out and they needed somebody to be there. In case someone else someone tells caught on fire. I mean it was very really difficult fire and almost every firefighter. I spoke to said they never fought a fire that was as challenging Alan Djing and as fierce as this fire was I think for many of them the the the sort sort of I don't want to say the highlight of their career because obviously wasn't something they were joyful about but it was the most intense experience of their careers in the arson. Investigators event eventually decided that arson had been the cause of the fire. Who who was the person who was accused of having started at a young man in his twenty's named Harry peak who was was I guess predictably wannabe actor Aaron. Boy You know did odd jobs park cars. That kind of thing was well what what happened was he had told a number of friends that he had started the fire. So very quickly Once there was a reward associated with if anyone having providing a tip for solving the fire one of his friends good to have friends like that came forward and Basically connected the fire department to him and they began following them around and ended up interviewing him to figure out whether his boasts of having started the fire were in fact true because because he was a charming liar he was from every description I had from anybody. He was an immensely likable guy. Charming charming and just a crazy fibber. Own would just fifth about stupid things not just FIB. You'd say where. Where have you been? I was having drinks with share. You know he just couldn't tell a straight story and he his friends would. It were exasperated by I am and at the same time. Also said he's a really good guy who would give you the shirt off his back and that was interesting to me. They all use that exact expression he would give view the shirt off his back. He was beloved and also drove them crazy. So in in a way this is what might be called a true crime narrative. I guess and I wonder if you felt pressured by the fact that you were telling a crime story to have a narrative the resolved comfortably to provide an answer to the question. I I did I first of all I thought AWW GONNA solve this which is utterly vain. I mean the. There's no way that as civilian with no oh access to the evidence and no knowledge of how to investigate an arson would be able to crack the case case but that was my first thought is. I'm going to solve this and maybe if you had a ragtag band of friends it right special. Yeah yes come on guys and a big dog right. Isn't that the the Scooby Doo premises but I'm fairly comfortable with the idea that I don't have to come to a final conclusion and it may be out of the reality of so many of the things I write about. Don't have a tidy conclusion or don't resolve in the way that I might have expected them to resolve. In this case I think following the different possible outcomes. It's a bit of a choose your own adventure and and you come to your own conclusion. Essentially because there's no way to reexamine the evidence at this point. What I tried to do is lay out all of those different paths of thought that could lead you to a conclusion it may be that when I wrote the orchid thief and I was determined to see a ghost orchid and as time was growing short and I thought Oh my God the book is ruined? I'm never going to see a ghost orchid and finally had a deadline that I had to make and I didn't see one and suddenly it seemed like well of course I'm not going to see one. That's that's the point. It's it doesn't matter that I'm not GonNa it it. It would never match the anticipation of seeing it so it was the first experience. I had of a non-conclusion conclusion. Then and in its own way it felt I mean it is the reality it. The fact is without giving anything away. Hey it's it's not possible to come to a conclusion. I mean my my notion that I would solve it being something. That very quickly Lee. I realize well that's nuts but it isn't possible to ultimately know what happened and I was is comfortable finally thinking that's okay. I'm giving you the different paths of thought and and Maybe you see the One of them being the persuasive one. Well Susan Orlean. I really loved your book and now I love having you on the show. Thank you so much for coming over and taking the time. Oh thank you. It's it's a pleasure. Susan Orlean her book. The library book is an absolute delight. I can't recommend it highly enough. It's out in paperback. Now is not just for her Angelino. So if you're if you live in Los Angeles great but if you've ever been to orange enjoyed a library Susan's book is for you. It is really. It's a real winter. That's the end of another episode of Bulls Eye. Bulls is produced at maximum fund or World Headquarters Overlooking Macarthur Park in Beautiful Full Los Angeles California where the birds have discovered the barge the raft. The kind of floats around the link. I think it was once a boat-landing anyway. They've covered it in what birds cover things in the show is produced by. Speaking to microphones are producers Kevin Ferguson. Hey Soussan Barosio Jio is our associate producer. We get help from Casey O'Brien and his giant electric piano our production fellows Jordan cowling and Melissa. Dwayne yes are interstitial. Interstitial Music is by Dan Wally also known as Dj w our theme song is by the go team thanks to them and their label Memphis Industries for letting US use it and one last last thing we have done. Many interviews are shows nearly two decades starting with the time that my friend Jordan went to Dick Dale Dot net on the web and called the King of the Surf Guitar at his trailer in the desert. All of those interviews are available on our website at maximum fund dot Org. We're on facebook facebook twitter and youtube just search for Bullseye. With Jesse Thorn you can keep up with the show there and I think that's about it. Just remember all great. Radio have a signature. Sign off Bullseye. With Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fun dot Org and is distributed by N._p._R..
Rose Byrne on "Irresistible," "Bridesmaids" and more
"Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR. Coming to you from my house in Los Angeles, it's Bullseye I'm Jordan Morris infor Jesse Thorn I'm the CO host of Jesse go here. Maximum Fund and I'm also a comedy writer who created the Scifi comedy fiction podcast bubble. My Guest Rose Byrne has been acting for over twenty five years. She was born and raised near Sydney Australia, but quickly made a name for herself in the states. She had breakout in the fx series damages. She played L. A. Parsons. She's acting in movies like knowing and get him to the Greek, and the comedy Classic Bridesmaids, she played Helen the filthy rich antagonised to kristen wigs any. Funny people changed. I, mean I don't know people really change. I think they do. But I mean they still stay who they are very much, you think. We change all the time. I, think we. Stay the same, but. Grow I guess a little bit. I think if you're trying and you're changing but I mean we're changing from who we are. which we always stay as not really I don't think so. Now she starring alongside Steve, Carell irresistible. It's a political comedy directed by John Stewart. It's movie about a small town in Wisconsin where the race for mayor becomes a national sensation, money and strategists from both parties arrive. Rose Byrne place, faith brewster, the Republican Nemesis of Terrell's Gary Zimmer. Let's hear a clip. This scene from the movie faith is just arrived in deer lock in Wisconsin, and wouldn't you know it? into her rival Gary. You're walking always so. Dear luck. Uber, Alles was copyrighted. We're going. GonNa go with I'm Pam until you remembered. HOW STUPID FOUND! No, I love it. I love the whole town genealogy angle. It's got a real bold. You Ain't from around here flavor. Subtle notes of xenophobia. Not to mention the cognitive dissonance that you're booth is basically a love letter to immigration. That's a great observation, so all these people are hypocrites. I run with that all you have to fear now. We're getting somewhere. Twenty Bucks. Says I do better with their than you do with Shane. Rose Byrne welcome to Bullseye. Thank you, so I want to talk about your new movie irresistible, and I think the best way to start the conversation by talking about what I think. Is your characters I seen in the movie? You exit the seen by very aggressively. Licking Steve! Corrales face. What what was it like to film this moment just as an actor and also. Why do you think that's a good introduction to this character? Well that was my first day on set. It was the first time I met Steve the first time. I'd met John the first day. Is the licking seed. Oh, by Gosh Day was the league's as always shut it in sequencing. Are We shut our conversation first and then we at the end we set up for the. League. I remember I was far too timid, initially John. John Sort of had to act it out for. Yeah, I realized quickly then. It's an intimidation tactic by by faith. and. She's not a nervous person by any means and. She really delights in the. Visit of the TERRASSA Jeff I think. So, but as an actress, it was a very. Strange. Meetings I scenes I've had to do. Yeah, I also have a lot of earrings and a lotta like bags and shoes and all this extra stuff. Going on and Steve was very funny that we lost a lot, which was good, there was a little of laughing in between takes and laughing, trying in trying to not laugh, so we get route. But once I realized how aggressive she had to be. It was a good a good. It was a good introduction in that sense. So your character in this is fictional, but it's it's obviously based on. Real people, real people who work in Washington people who work in media. Did you study any particular real world? People for this role a few? I main John Immediately pointed me toward the very well known documentary from the nineties called the war room. You know that Penny Baker Documentary and some. Great footage between James Carville and Mary Madeline and their dynamic and their relationship, being on opposite sides, but also being in this romantic relationship, and the kind of chemistry that they had he really was inspired by with faith and Gary. Look them. All past your ticket on changing demographic and now why do you want you back? Okay Jab exclamation. Point Were you here? Because I enjoy demoralizing you. Crushing last piece of hope in your is really gets me off. You are a twisted. Jack. Please don't tell me that is the campaign slogan you came up with? This guy. Sam is not the last Jedi and even if he were still question because it's what I do, realize the not analogy your baiter whenever you saying. It's good to see you. You look fat. I mean I looked at everyone from you know you Megan Kelly's two Kellyanne Conway. Sort of various strategists. Members of the White House team. You know yeah pundits. At particular the right. Republican female strategist is a very particular type because there's not many of them, they have to have a certain sort of brashness loudness about them and. It's a very specific type really. That that. Type personality type of look usually as well so. Trying to capture that there's a lot of fun lot of fun to dare. This movie has is a pretty. On its sleeve political message and you know it's. It's coming out in an election year. What did you think about signing onto a movie? That has such a clear message and a time that. You know people are extra cognizant of politics. Is it nerve racking it all having something like this? Come out. In a time like this. Well I certainly a year ago, new shuttered I did not realize they would be A. A. Global pandemic unlike. Since nineteen eighty. and. They would be a reckoning of the racial. Injustice in this country and the police force in this country and We certainly didn't know that it would be so Contentious and unprecedented, really in in the in the time that we're in right now, it was definitely we were in the midst of the trump administration, which was already tumultuous and. Unpredictable. but now of course where we are now, no one could have known could have predicted so it. Sir Ungrateful. The films coming out at all. You know these things you don't know, what are we? Something's being affected in the business, so I think it's exciting that it's getting a release on demand. And said that the IT'S A. It's a bit. Yet taken even more white because it is A. It's a political film in a time when this election is perhaps. It's gotta be up they with the most important elections in history really so. And this film is about how we vote so. I hope people I hope people are inspired. Devote after saying it. I'd love to hear more about what Jon. Stewart is like as a director. Strikes me as a guy who's pretty. WHO's pretty private? You know since he left TV, he's you know. He only POPs up occasionally for interviews and appearances. What is he like a guy in? What is he like as a director? He's very. He's John's really disarming. You know he's so a woman friendly and down to Earth, but absolutely private ashore. There's a mystery about him, but very affable and friendly to everybody anybody. There's no as in grace's is no sort of He's not a SNOB in any way you know. He's really quite disarming. With how down to Earth. He is and as a director. You know it. He's really collaborative. And it was a lot of technical politico-speak. Speak and slang things that I struggled like I was like. Oh, I kind of understand the system be fine and I quickly realized oh I'm. I. Do not understand that a lot of this. Shorthand explain stuff to me on the fly. No was a short shoot with not much time and money and it was by. No means a big production, so he was really collaborative and would adjust things on the fly so very flexible. Not Precious about stuff. You know what that doesn't. That's too wordy. This he's he's very critical of his own writing and he. You know he's very quick to change. Things just stuff to make it better always looking to improve things and very enthusiastic, really one of the crew you know. Super Energetic. And because it was such, he's world to this lampooning of of politics sides. You know no one is kind of sped. Because he, it's such his field nine, so it was great to. You felt I felt very safe in with him driving the ship. More with Rose Byrne in just a minute coming up. Is there a language barrier between Australians and Americans according to Rose Byrne yes. It's Bullseye for maximum fund. Dot Org NPR. Support for this podcast comes from hellofresh. Get fresh, premeasured ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your door with the meal kit. Delivery. Service hello fresh. Make Home Cooking Fun easy and affordable. There's something for everyone including low Calorie Vegetarian and family friendly recipes, listeners can go to hellofresh dot com slash bulls eye eighty that's Bullseye eight zero and use code bullseye eighty to eighty dollars off including free shipping on the first box. Additional restrictions apply visit hellofresh DOT com. CA. All. Hey. I'm brea grant in e-readers loves spoilers and chocolate and I'm Mallory o'mara a print book collector. Who murder you? If you spoil a book for me and we're host of reading glasses, a podcast designed to help you read better over the past few years. We've figured out why people read self-improvement escapism to distract ourselves from the world burning down, and why they don't not enough time not knowing what to read and being overwhelmed by the number on their TV. Our List and we're here to help you with that. We will help you conquer your pile while probably adding a bunch of books to it reading glasses every week. Maximum Dot Org. These days Chelsea handler tries to keep her and her friends white privilege in check. She starts like really getting weeping. What what are you doing right back? For Jilin can. Talk. A Comedian Chelsea handler on white privilege and a new book listen to. It's been a minute from NPR. Welcome back to Bullseye I'm Jordan Morris. INFOR Jesse Thorn I'm talking to Rose Byrne. You've seen her in movies like bridesmaids and on TV shows like damages, she stars alongside Steve Carell in irresistible, the new political comedy directed by John Stewart. You can stream it now. Let's get back to the interview. I love to talk about the stuff that leads you to where you are now i. read that you went to a performing arts. High School I'd love to hear more about that, and maybe specifically. What kind of material you were doing in high school, was it? Neil Simon was it? Shakespeare was at the little bit of everything. I went to this I left one high school. I went to a Nov a sort of. More of a not school. Also, full of a lot of people who dropped out of other schools and they couldn't get anywhere else. This call her actually don't think it exists anymore. Called Bradford College, but. In any case, it was definitely a lot of interesting types there and. We did want to. Self devised work. College. It was more. It was more really through. My time at the Australian data for young people at why pay which is a theory youth group that I sort of fell in love with more material, based off and really studying English literature at school. Because you always are, you're eating all of the classics and the. Whether it some Shakespeare or nor Author me. Laura or whomever so. Is there a combination of lots of experiences growing up of seeing the theater Studying and at school, really kind of informed informed, but I started very young. Yeah, I was. Eight when I started classes like the the youth at the theater group, and then thirteen, when I got my first professional job in Australia. When you got to that Performing Arts Group. And you kind of were kind of immersed in this world of other theater, people were you like? Oh. This is it I've found my tribe. I did I did feel that? Yes, not to send the cheesy and. Sentimental but I did. After all okay, we don't believe in. Mashi's stuff. I. Feel like that when I went sue. P I did I loved it I was very young I used to go with a bunch of kids from my neighborhood and we will get the ferry across. And it was in these old beat up warehouse and It was magical, loved it. I was very much at harm, and I was shot wasn't A. particularly. I duNNo, if you put me in a group and I'm quite quiet, but within the context of drama and machination, and all that stuff I found it really fun and liberating sir. I was one of those we'd quiet actors. Because we're all different firm, but some actors I think can be Kinda shy, but and I was definitely then, but I did I. Did feel it felt like I had found a sort of. A group that I was. Very easily easily adopted to you mentioned doing you know Shakespeare. And Epson and things like that did this kind of early training of yours? Did it include any like sketch, comedy or Improv or anything like that? No I mean he do that. In. An eight PM. We had again called. Space Junk. Of improvised and stuff means all games when you're little and the sort of the most serious. Texts and stuff come later on, but the the serious improv comedy. I didn't wasn't exposed still until I. Did on I started working with with the you know next, jot uptown, pull fake and Seth Rogan, and all of those. You Know Melissa and Kristen Wig and all the goals from bridesmaids. That was really my introduction. Really did get into the great connect with Russell Brand and That was my my. Introduction to the this at the Improv comedy world. We're jumping around here a little bit, but I really WanNa talk about the fact that one of your very early film jobs was in a star wars movie. Star Wars to attack of the clones. Before getting that job where you a star wars kid. I wasn't. Can hear a collective. GROAN I wasn't I was one of the like one of the world who had never seen hours. And in no another movies I knew the characters from pop culture, but I didn't know the story and. I was like very much in the minority. I know that you know like. Would you know? Kids get into star wars at a certain age and people who are serious about it. Get serious about it at a certain age I think. was there anything you were just? Super. Geek about when you were. You know in junior high high school. Oh Yeah. I, mean when I was really young. I was really into. A very famous pop singer in Australia called Kylie Minogue. You know a kind of stray leeann icon. She's lovely. But she was I was a fanatic pop music fan, and went to five concerts and had t shirts, and the albums, and this and that up until it was by no means a cool was pretty dorky. I was not as sophisticated. I mean I look back now and I'm proud of my Kylie days because she's amazing and she's you know she's like super tested time, and she's very charming and smart and funny, and so that was my sort of fanaticism. And the other thing I was really into growing up. Was this British comedy series called Fawlty Towers with John, Clay. Yeah, I love place, and I was obsessed with Basil, Fawlty, and then I got into the monty python film so I think my introduction to comedy was quite rose really through that. My father really loved the Fawlty Towers so it was falsely tells Kylie which is a pretty strange combination. It's so interesting, I. would people think about you know British comedy. When people who aren't from the UK think about British comedy, you know they think of something that is very. You know maybe stuffy and dry, but fawlty towers and python those are so silly silly and the physical comedy brilliant, and the more I learned about you know. They were hearst for six weeks for every episode of Fawlty, towers which was allowed to the physical comedies, remarkable and. They hold up today and he's you know he's like just doing the Canon of television characters of history as far as I'm concerned doesn't fall. But. Yeah, it's definitely a lesson in the states I would say we used to get a lot of. We would get all of. Old, the British programs came to Australia before we had the American program so when I was growing up. It was more kind of on British television in American Television You mentioned earlier that your new movie irresistible is premiering on demand, obviously because of the pandemic. Theaters aren't open, but it also kind of got me. Thinking about movie premieres being something that can't happen in this. In the current climate. Are you bummed. Able to see this movie at a premiere or Are those just kind of. Obligatory appearances that you make because you know you have to. Adapt quickly said of all that Scott, and so you just realize all the work you have to promote. It is now resume and all that stuff, which is tedious in its own way, or whatever, but not to take anything away from you. But you just chat like you don't even think about WHO's calling it. Might be that's just. May I just compartmentalize but? What's a bummer is you don't get to save? Go would love to see John and that's a great excuse to see John. We had bonded you bond with these. That's what's the best part about it in a way is to. For me I love to see people again and talk and catch up and you know. You, you know and this was a really nice experience. It's not always like that like some. Obviously, every job is different and some things I don't want to talk about it all. and. Mrs America, both really fun and really creative difference. that. That's disappointing, but the scale of things. It's not a big deal. The rest going of Mike Okay. You know look at look at the big picture. You gave another interview where you talked about the first time you saw bridesmaids in kind of being. Under not ideal conditions. I would love to hear more about that and how it kind of changed how you watch your own movies. Well I saw. It was a press screening I was gonNA snuck in at the back, and so it was with a bunch of journalists. They were really just everyone was on their blackberry at that point back, boy. Whenever. Advocates or something? And wasn't that much love, and except remember one person down the front was losing laughing and so I walked away going. I think it's terrific, but jd audience seem to enjoy it that much because you know. The press is traded and they see six films a week. You know they're not. They're just thinking about the next appointment. They have to do whatever so it was definitely eye opening. Yeah, I thought wow this. Is. Just yeah, I realized. It was a window into that world to rose. You have played a lot of Americans. You are an Australian person as I'm sure the audience can hear. Yet it seems to be something that kind of happens a lot in Hollywood. There's a lot of Australian actors who play American Characters A. Missouri class that they make you take. Yeah, there is. It's called watching television. Nowadays everything is American everyone goes up with all of the sitcoms and all of the films and. So very much immersed in the American culture. You know my nephews know all of the. You know and even sports now it's global all that stuff. But when I was growing, I mean yeah I, definitely had classes like. Vocal. Accent training and all of that, but I'm I'm married to. An American doesn't understand anything I say! Where am I? Suzuki Chuck we my studies and he'll be like what why did she say? Why she say! So, you know I I walk around is talking to myself all day my house. They don't understand. But yes, he's always like it costs. An Australian I always cussing strategy and visit I. Don't know if it's as popular Naveh. It was a trend for a while. There of Ozzy does coming in and Popping up in every sort of every every kind of movie, old TV show or whatever? We are about out of time and I think. Maybe we have time for one more question and I, I just had something. That I really want to ask you about? This is a little off topic. It could be you know something that we. We cut from the interview, but I just really want to know what's Nicholas Cage like. He is a true eccentric yet. Yeah, you're. You're in a great movie with him called knowing. Alex Poise movies a great film. Mike I'm and. He's a true eccentric, yeah. We went to an animal park together. Ernie held like a Bald Eagle and. He had permission to hold the bald. Eagle Right, oh. Yeah, yeah, we had permission to hold everything I. Mean we were looking at the Tasmanian? Devils at one point remember. But he was a gentleman, absolute gentleman, but absolutely eccentric, for sure that is definitely no. It's definitely not a fabricated thing and I feel like he's getting even more eccentric as he gets talk, which is very entertaining, sure yet. Rose Byrne thanks for joining us on Bullseye Welcome. Thank you so much having me. Was Rose Byrne folks. Her new movie irresistible is available to rent digitally now. That's the end of another episode of Bullseye, bullseyes produced out of the homes of mean, the staff of maximum fund in and around Greater Los Angeles where producer Kevin Ferguson made a drink call days shrub out of some extra beats. He had lying around. He says tastes great when paired with sparkling water. His wife says it tastes like salad dressing. Hey if you enjoyed my talking on Bullseye. WHY NOT TRY JORDAN JESSE GO? It's a comedy podcast with me and the usual host of the show. Jesse Thorn. Great guests every week and just make them participate in nonsensical nonsense It's very dumb and a ton of fun and I think you'll like it. Jordan Jesse. Go wherever you get your podcasts. bullseyes produced by speaking into microphones are producers Kevin Ferguson. Suzanne Brosio in Jordan cowling are associate producers. We also get help from Casey, O'Brien. Are Interstitial Music is by Dan Wally also known as Dj W. Our theme song is by the go team. Thanks to them but their label. THANKS TO THEM IN THEIR LABEL MEMPHIS industries for letting. US use it. You can keep up with the show on facebook. Twitter and Youtube just search for Bullseye with Jesse, Thorn. I guess, that's about it. Just remember all great radio. Hosts have signature sign off. Bullseye with Jesse, thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR.
Natalie Palamides, creator and star of "Nate: A One Man Show"
"Bullseye with jesse thorn is a production of maximum. Fun dot org and is distributed by npr. It's bullseyes i'm jesse thorn so there is a very weird very funny show on netflix. Right now it's called nate. A one man show. It's taped in front of a live audience theatre in l. a. And the star of the show is may nate has a giant handlebar mustache bandanna over his head and he's wearing a fleece plaid jacket open with no shirt on underneath chest. Hair exposed and nate. Well he kind of does crowd work. He makes the audience laugh then. He makes them uncomfortable at one point he wrestles of stranger at another. He improvises a handshake with them. Nate is as you might have gathered a character. He's created and performed by comedian. Natalie palomino says you might have seen natalie as part of the crew in those progressive insurance commercials. She plays mara. She's been work shopping. Nate for years and natalie will admit that he is kind of a jerk. Much of the show feels like a dialogue with the audience as nate ropes them into different increasingly uncomfortable situations. He explores toxic masculinity and consent. It's unique and funny show. The bullseye crew was turned onto it by our friend. Carrie poppy who also hosts. Maximum funds ono rawson carey so we decided to let carrie interview natalie before we get into the interview. Let's listen to a clip from nate. A one man show in this clip nate has approached an unsuspecting member of the audience with an innocent enough question. What's her name. I'm so sorry i actually. I never got unit You didn't ask me yeah. I'm so sorry. I didn't ask you. It's killing helen. You're probably couldn't understand because it's actually pronounce he lane but whatever's your name say i want even though you're saying iran natalie this welcome to bulls eye. Hey thanks so much carry. Poppy how are you. I'm pretty good. How are you doing. I'm are. I all things considered i suppose. Yes so i usually see you. Pretty regularly were good friends. But i haven't seen you in the last eight months or something because of this quarantine nonsense. How's your life been. It's been a hell of a year kerry. I've had a healing journey this year. As i'm sure maybe you're a bit aware of did i tell you i did like twenty days waterfowl aso. Wow you know. I always try weird weird health stuff ya you do. Commit to things completely. And that's actually kind of why you're here. We wanna talk to you about eight. A one man show which is your new netflix's special. Yes it is. Yes it is. And it's essentially a taping of your live show. Which how long did nate the live. Show run oh gosh i premiered it at the edinburgh festival and twenty eighteen twenty eighteen and then toward it all over the uk and ireland new york los angeles for a while. I would say. I tore it up until the pandemic started i. My last run of shows was in february twenty twenty. Oh wow and when did it start or when did you conceive nate. Oh i guess. I start a workshop in the show in december twenty seventeen but i originated the character. I guess in a Drag workshop in philadelphia with the pig iron theatre company in two thousand twelve. Oh wow yeah you know i. He was baby nate. He was much different. He didn't have a mustache. Or as a as gravelly of a voice at that time. But i still consider him to be the nate character. Yeah okay so walk us through the steps then from two thousand twelve. You conceive of nate palomino whose name is very similar to yours. I don't know if he realized that it's a nod. It's a nod to my name. Yeah take take us from there to here. I was doing a drag workshop in philadelphia with the pig iron theatre company. And we're devising a play that was based on the work of this guy or inspired by the work of charles ludlam and he was famous for doing classical plays in drag performing very campy but still being able to move people to tears so throughout that work shopping process i was just generating a bunch of male characters and nate was one of them that popped up in the first piece that i did with him was all silence and he was kind of sadly drinking a two liter bottle of soda in his basement All in silence you know kind of goes with the the theme of trying to express himself so he was. You know i didn't verbalize it. Then in that piece. But he was very sad chugging this two liter bottle of soda kind of caught up in his feelings and part of the bet was just Burping intermittently and also. I think the act of finishing the bottle of soda was probably also somewhat impressive. Part of the bit may be is. Finn is the was the task. You're drinking a whole two liter bottle. Yes yes exactly. And then the timing of the burbs. What kind of soda Just like a soda water. Remember it china not get shoes sugared up but you know needed to be carbonated that i can have the burbs and so at that point. It's just sort of a moment in this characters life you must not know much about him does name. Then sort of surprise you is that is that the process. Do you have to impose a life on him or does he just come alive over the next few years. That's a really good way to put it kerry. Yeah he just kinda comes alive. Whenever i get into character he just says stuff off the top of his head. You know. I don't always know what's common. Oh wow so i mean. Do you sometimes feel surprised by the stuff. Nate says sure. Sometimes i surprise myself. Yeah i mean. I'm not that meta where i think i'm native or something i'm not gonna go all You know joker on your hair. Anything but Yes sometimes i definitely am surprising myself or sometimes during a workshop. I'll say something and realize i you know went too far. They're probably gonna said that. Or you know. Oh new said that. But that was name. That wasn't me so it's fine. It's eye i'm jesse thorn. Our guest is natalie palomino says the show is such a mid point between a play an improv performance. And it's not quite stand up but there is that heavy crowd work. How did you decide between the were filming this. How how did you decide between treating it as more of a play versus as As one of these comedy live events. Well you know. I think i just put up with the show already. Was you know. I didn't really decide how i was gonna treat it like a play or a stand up comedy special. It just is what it is so we just shot what already existed and I guess in terms of just living in the comedy scene in los angeles. I try not to put a label on myself of what it is. I mean i think it's a comedy show but You know. I love using theatrics. I love theatricality. And i love how you can elevate a piece by by making at theatrical and having some moments or like some cool spotlight affects or you know waterworks on stage. Yeah there's a literal shower on the stage Yeah i like to get creative. I don't want to put myself in a box and say like oh it's this. I don't wanna limit myself. I just if i think of something. I'll put it in the show Yes so then does not have a script. No not currently but i mean from doing it over and over again i just remember it so it is scripted in a way in the way that i just remember to do those things the same every time you know there are written jokes and there's definitely a structure that the show follows but you know i keep it really loose and yeah i've never written it down. Maybe i should do that. Because it's been a while since i've done. I usually just rely on my muscle. memory Yeah if you get hit by a bus or something this size with you it dies with me. I mean there's there's a recording of it. I guess that could be raphael's. That's that's true that's why we're here. You're right my guest is actor and comedian. Natalie pella midas her new netflix special nate. A one man show has been described as a powerful exploration of masculinity and consent and much of the show feels like a dialogue with the audience. And there's a lot of audience participation. Let's listen to a clip in this clip natalie's character nate has enlisted an audience member to join her onstage in the role of her best friends. Lucas in nate's world there are about to share their signature handshake but of course to the audience volunteer. This is totally new. And they're forced to improvise along with nate pena. Peanut butter spread out. Peanut spread out. Then you put on the jelly and you put on. And then you put in your. So what's the most difficult thing that's happened at one of these live shows. Oh gosh well you know before. I wrestled a guy. I give him that folder that he a waiver that he asked his signs her russell but before there was the waiver ikea. I should take it back a little bit so i always had the waiver in the show just as a gag for a prop for them to sign before they wrestle me. But now there's some directions in there that say you're about to wrestle name Please let me know if you have. Any sensitivities are injuries and Remembered nee is just a little lady so please wrestle gently but with passion. And so before. I kind of have that little disclaimer in there. I wrestled man who slam me very hard on my neck. Said there's just been that was probably the most dangerous wrestling situation. I got into and there were a couple others that were you know a little bit. Risque and You know because. I'm really again people on. Sometimes when they come up and pushing their buttons and some some people is get into it you know and it becomes a little bit real for them so whenever i went to the uk. They're big on risk assessments in the uk so they kind of made me put a disclaimer into the waiver. But what i found was that it was actually a lot easier to wrestle playfully with me whereas previously they they were kind of Maybe a little bit aggressive most of the time. So i guess another difficult moment and this has only happened twice What you know when somebody walks out of the show oh During kind of sensitive time during a sensitive part of the show You know it just catches me off guard and You know. I just feel bad the that somebody felt the need to walk out. But you know. I i encourage it if somebody needs to. You know that's what they need to do but sometimes i'm like oh like both time. Somebody watch out was during a part of the show where i was wishing. They just sat there for one more second. You know because. I'm like i got you if you just like for one more second if you can hang on but Yeah it's understandable. How has the feedback ben. Now that the show's on a big platform. Oh well i think It's been generally pretty positive. I try not to seek out. How negative feedback you know. Probably the worst feedback. I got was actually from my parents. Oh okay my dad. Nearly had a heart attack when he saw it and You know he sent me a slew of texts on that were you know largely Negative i suppose like I guess A phrase that could probably some up all the tax would be he said. I'm glad your grandparents aren't alive so they didn't have to see this hour pay v stuff and is that just because you're largely nude in the show. Yeah i think so He's doing he's i. Can't you do something less raunchy. Even though you know i i said to him. I said you're just saying that. Because i'm your daughter. I said you would like it. Somebody else did it because my parents they love austin powers. They love sausage party. They love raunchy comedy. You know they introduced me to austin powers. When i was in third grade so like you did this. You know what he expect. Even more when natalie palomino still to come stay with us. It's bullseye from maximum fund dot org an npr. This message comes from npr sponsor. Nerdwallet a personal finance website and app that helped people make smarter. Money moves have new money goals this year. Whether you wanna use credit card points to plan a family vacation abroad wanted safe or take advantage of low mortgage rates to refinance and save for your child's education. Nerdwallet is the best place to shop financial products to help. Make your money goals happen. Discover and compared the smartest credit cards mortgage lenders and more at nerdwallet dot com. I started listening to owner rawson kerry. Shortly after i broke my arm. I was allergic to water. I knew it was time to make a change. There's something about. Oh no ross carey that you just can't get anywhere else. They're thought leaders discoverers. Founders healers luminaries rawson carried on just report on fringe science spirituality claims of the paranormal. They'd take part themselves. They shall up so you don't have but you might find that you want to arm is better. My landlord came back from the dead. Just go to. Maximum fund dot org. Carry on carry is just a podcast. Doesn't do anything it's just sound. Listen to your ears. All these people are made up goodbye. Gunsmoke grey's anatomy choose me. Game of thrones snow. None of these shows would exist without one guy and his very famous white desi arnez invented television as we know it on. Npr's planet money podcast. It's bullseye i'm jesse thorn. If you're just joining us our guest. Is natalie palomino says natalie is a comedian here in los angeles. You might have seen her as a recurring character on those progressive insurance commercials. She's also got a unique and fascinating new special out innate. A one man show she plays. The show's title character. Nate is chauvinist jerk. He ropes audience members into weird and uncomfortable situations. It's as awkward as it is funny. You can check it out now on net flix. natalie is being interviewed by our own carrie. Poppy host of maximum funds. Ono rawson kerry. Let's get back into it. One word that always comes up and reviews of nate and of your work in general is is brave and that always makes me think of lucille. Ball's line where she said. I'm not funny. What i am is brave. Do you see yourself as brave. I that gave me goosebumps. And you said that kerry. I mean i guess i'm so i mean i like to feign bravery but You know. I'm always a little bit nervous but i maybe i just don't give a i don't know if that's bravery not giving embroidery. Are they incredible. Yeah that's a good question. I think of bravery as being scared overcoming the fear. Not the absence of fear. Yeah so do you feel afraid and you push through or do you just not feel afraid. I think i feel afraid. And i pushed through because i'm excited about getting into trouble. I like to do mischievous things but it's fun to you. Know put yourself in a dangerous situation and then you get a little bit of a rush when you pull it off now. They're upset but sure. Yeah i mean. I you know what i'm flattered. People say i am brave. I liked to do scary things. Because i think it's fun but i don't do scary things to harm anybody else or to hurt myself. That's not the kind of danger. I seek out. It's more in the spirit of fun you know. What's the most trouble. Then you've gotten into for your art. Oh my gosh the most trouble Since you're sitting. I don't think i have really gotten into trouble. I mean i. I've done with stakes that i've gotten i guess maybe a slap on the wrist for but you know was an honest mistake like an. They weren't too angry with me about it like i flooded the stage. Uc be usually. It has to do with making a mess. You know my trumpet case. I melted my trumpet. Can set it on fire during a show well it wasn't really on fire is just like smoking bubbling up. I guess usually like. I get in trouble for trying. Something on stage that. I didn't tell the producer i was going to do. And usually it involves like water or fire. Like one time when i was at the virgil. I did this fire-breathing bids and i was really close to the curtains. And i didn't tell the producer of the show that i was doing fire-breathing and they were very surprised. I mean the bit went over well but afterwards they were like. Hey you gotta tell us about that stuff. Yeah and so. Now the producers of that show i think it was a super serious show maybe the hot tub show the virgil and They reach out to me now every time before i do the show on there like is there anything we need to know about and usually there is like. I've brought nate shower to to that. Show you know fire-breathing. I've brought a big A large industrial fan And put a bunch of baby powder into it a you know. Make our with people which is fine. I mean maybe now it wouldn't be fine but Yes sometimes it just kind of go rogue one thing that i really admire about you is that you have this sort of internal engine and this internal compass to mix my metaphors Where you really know what you want to do. Artistically and if someone tries to direct you away from that you politely thank them and move on and that's true. Yeah and one of the. The biggest examples of this is a year or two ago without saying too much. You had been offered this this sizable role in a big comedy film. And she turned it down to go to nate for two weeks live in london. I think yeah. I man that was an easy to do but yeah i mean so at the time i mean. Did you haven't ha- about that or did you just know. Now like nate nate an important thing and he's going to be something and did you just know Oh well i mean they were really trying to work it out honestly but You know. I don't know if i'm that great of like an artist that i wanted to turn down a huge comedy film. I mean i definitely would probably rather do my art then. Some you know some you know. Show her movie made by the hollywood machine or something but definitely eats me up still inci like when it recently came out. I was like you know but You know that happens and you gotta yeah you gotta go for a true to you. You must be glad you did it. Now yeah yeah no totally. I mean a slew of things happened. Like if i had left london to do that movie. I wouldn't have gotten hit by a motorcycle. Which is also weird like during that time in london. I got hit on the day that i would have had to leave to go to the movies. I was like weirdly supposed to get hit by this motorcycle. Did you know about that. I told you right but you must have a were. Obviously you're fine Would yeah it was a miracle a miracle. Why do you say you had to be hit by a. Did you get something good out of that. I don't know the butterfly fight. You know i mean. I believe in fate and destiny and all that i mean i believe you also have to make your own luck and you've gotta work hard and stuff like that but I don't know i. I kind of believe everything happens for a reason fair enough. I hear that story in. Think damn should got london earlier seat up by motorcycle. I know that definitely crossed my mind. When i went whacked by that thing i was like franken dammit like if i had just gonna go do that movie. I would've Not been hit by this thing. But also i should have just like been looking. Well the thing is okay. i got hit. The motorcycle was coming up the middle between stopped cars. And not you know. I wasn't using the crosswalk but traffic was stopped. I thought it was safe. But i was jaywalking. You know so Their responsibility don't jaywalk. But maybe i had to learn not to jaywalk so that later in my life i didn't die from getting hit by a bigger vehicle. There it is narain as a lesson very diligent about crossing the street. Now what's funny is like when i call my mom to tell her hip she was like. I'm that was going to happen to you. You never look. He never local. You're crossing the street and i- fricken looked. I looked anyways. Carrie i appreciate you making me sound honorable and valiant that is like stood my ground and went and did my art but i definitely was bummed that i couldn't do this movie but yeah i mean it is true that my art is always more important to me and i think that i would always choose arts over some hollywood film. Not that it's like crappy. 'cause i definitely wanted to do it the you what i mean. There's story about You know what's his name charlie from. It's always sunny. He he does not that. This is the same level at all but he chose between series regular on a network show and developing. It's always sunny even though he the know if it was going to get picked up or what and he chose his art. So wanna talk Before we go about About nato's a character so there's this this very important moment in the show Where nate has just realized he might have done something very very wrong But he's not sure and he turns to the audience and he just point blank asks us. Did i do something wrong. Here and And the audience sort of peppers their replies. You hear a yes from the corner and a no from the other side and yes no yes no. Usually the audience is kind of split. So the first time i saw the show. I don't know if you'll remember this. But afterward i asked you. If you had an opinion do you think he did something right or wrong. And and i won't say what you said here but you had a very definite answer at which kind of surprised me and i wonder is. Do you still have a definite answer to that question. Or has it gotten more gray over time Yeah i think. I still have definite answer. But i'm not interested in telling people what i think so i would be interested in engaging in conversation in a conversation about the nuance of that moment but i You know with somebody after the show but the purpose of the show is not to preach my opinion of what it is. You know i would like everyone to feel heard and i would just honestly like it to be more of a starting point for conversation for for people on all sides. You know on all points of the wheel of the conversation to feel like they're able to enter into it and what they're welcome in. The conversation were allowed to use words that are maybe usually deemed as to tabio. You know it's like we have to be able to say these things. I think even though right now i'm like carefully choosing i'll have my words and making sure that i don't say anything wrong but That's what i would like to surpass. Hopefully one day and i would like to encourage everybody else to you know. Treat each other with a bit of empathy when they're discussing things in you know so that we ham feel more free to discuss these things without feeling like. Oh we're gonna get harpooned by the person we're discussing it with. And because i think in general you know of course you know there's always outliers but I think most people aren't setting out to hurt anybody when they want to discuss these things. And i think most people wanna feel understood and If we could just approach these kinds of conversations with with that in mind. I think that's that would be helpful natalie. Thanks for being on bullseye. Thank you for. Natalie palomino best. Her new special is called nate. A one man show it streaming now on netflix. also check out our guests. Interviewer carry poppies podcast. Ono rossen carry. I just saw her tweeting that she was about to interview an expert on on. So if you want what will almost certainly be uninformative and funny interview about a terrifying subject. Check that out at the end of episode of bullseye bullseye is created in the homes of me and the staff of maximum fun in and around greater los angeles california where construction across the street from my home is not only made it very difficult to record but also has led me to go through the automated car wash about twice a week. Which obviously that's actually kind of a side benefit. I love going through the automated car. Wash our show is produced by speaking into microphones producers. Kevin ferguson. Hey seuss ambrosio jordan. Howling are associate producers. We help them casey. O'brien and kristen bennett. Our interstitial music is by dan. Wally also known as dj w our theme song is by the go team. Thanks very much to the team. And to their label memphis industries for letting us use bat. You can also keep up with the show on twitter. Facebook and youtube. We post all our interviews there. And i think that's about it. Mr member bulk radios. Have a signature sign bullseye. With jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by npr.
"Bullseye with jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by npr. It's bulls eye. I'm jesse thorn. I this week. The great holly hunter hands down one of the greatest actors in the game one of my all time. Face cheers had unforgettable roles in some of the best movies of the last thirty years or so raising arizona broadcast news the piano. The big sick. I mean i could go on and on and i mean i'm painting with a broad brush but i would say holly hundred characters don't waste time. They know what they want. They know how to get it and the sooner that you move out of the way the better it'll be for all of us for the first time in a while. Holly is starring on a new tv show. It's called mr mayor. It's the new sitcom created by tina fey. And robert kerr lock. Hollies co star. Ted danson plays. The show's title character. Los angeles mayor neil bremmer. Who's kind of hapless political novice who backed into the mayorality. Holly plays arpey mess. came in. She's been on the city council for decades and she like many. Holly hunter characters doesn't believe in wasting time and as you're about to hear. She is very opposed to mayor. Brammer i initiative a proposed ban of plastic straws a ban on bendable. Plastic straws is blatant discrimination against quadriplegics or any angelino with limited use of their hands. It's an outrage. The call themselves qualities or chair dogs. No don't oh i'm sorry. My nephew must've been pranking me memorized face in on me. Fine how come to you. I've got your number of grammar like underwear drugstore. You're not gonna laugh to mont hundred welcome to bulls. I'm so happy to have you on the show. Hey jesse i asked this almost exact same question to ted danson last week but i read in in a joint interview that the two of you did about you asking him about doing the kind of comedy That is in a robert carlyle. Tina fey show which is to say just jam packed with very complicated jokes. Just joke dropped jokes as in like underwear button drugstore and the advice that i read he gave you let the wind blow through your hair which i thought was the most beautiful thing but like you've done plenty of comedy but i don't know if you've ever done comedy this jokey. What does it feel like to do it. Well you know. I read through that. We did for mp nbc. I was sitting. In between ted. Danson and bobby moynihan and i you know i was in the middle of two maestros and they played as such. I learned so much from them. Just in that i read through it was so impactful i was very nervous and it is. It's like a completely different genera but in a way. Not totally without precedent. In a way i feel like tina in robert are related to howard. Hawks i mean if you go back to the forties and you see some of those movies with cary grant and katharine hepburn. It's in myrna loy in the thin man series it's so fast it so nimble and this i don't know i i feel like the shows a little bit like a cannonball it requires mental physical verbal dexterity from the actors and i think when we're warmed up we're in that space together. It's just it's a high. It's so much fun to shift this. I was thinking about this. One joke did that. Mike avalon descended to vella lavelle. Well he says. I i like your pants and and she says oh yeah. I said the word pants near my phone and they showed up at my house. You know and then it's gone so it requires. I was thinking the other day. It's like you can totally watch this show. You can have a glass of wine and watch this show in really laugh or you could have a cup of coffee and probably catch a few more jokes. I i was reading interviews with you and some of them came with glamorous publicity photos and some of those photos you have this hairstyle. I think of as women's television hairstyle which is kind of like loose wavy curls. Just off the face sort of medium long hair and big curls that framed the face and i my understanding is that this hairstyle is popular in television because hair people like it because it's easy to keep in continuity because it doesn't move very much and on this show mr mayor you basically have the literal opposite of that hairstyle lake. Your hair is the hair of your character. The most unglamorous person on earth and lake person for whom patagonia is much too. Glamorous what is it like to like show up to hair and makeup and have them be like. Oh let's make this more awkwardly choppy. Well that was something that i really really wanted. I mean i so loved the idea of having this like in a way like In early nineties. It's like an early nineties haircut Don badly that are bhagat saying in the early nineties and went worked for me. It's it's wash and wear. I can get up and go and then she just stays with it. You know twenty years later. She's she's still cutting hair that exact same way because why not it's hassle-free a and and it is a really bad is a bad cut. It comes from. I really wanted to fulfill mike kabalan. Line the almost the very first thing he says about arby's i hate her haircut and i just thought oh. That's that's such a key into this woman. A hey double haircut you know. Sometimes it's so liberating to come upon one aspect that if you fulfill that affect you are in new terrain and that's what it's like with arpey once i you know teen and i talked and talked about this haircut really really wanted it and once that happened or be came much more into focus just for me. Psychologically you know. I felt a arpey. I wanna ask you about your childhood. Your original mode of our was playing piano and you quit kind of committed. -ly like you really quit playing piano in public. What did playing piano mean to you as a little kid. And why did you stop doing it. Well i think you know. When i started i started playing on a window sill and i play so obsessively on a windowsill that my parents got me like a car board Piano keyboard just a cut out then. I played on that completely obsessively and then they got me piano because i went. Okay she seems to really mean it. And i i play the piano five hours a day. I mean i would come home from school and just play. I wouldn't spend the night with any friends unless they also had a piano. It was my first big love a true passion. But i could not play in front of people and maybe if there was one or two people. But i didn't even enjoy that i just. It was a private affair. So i think i was playing flight of the bumblebee or something like that at at my first recital in atlanta and i couldn't remember the last measure of the peace and i finally like bong out some bass note that was in the wrong key and left the bench and it was so traumatizing that i never went back to playing in front of people but i did not give up the piano. I continued to play the piano with a real love for years and years. So that when. I read the script for the piano and she was a pianist. I i i went out. Well it would be so amazing to get to express bat on screen and not only that but for the audience get to see someone who actually has a real relationship with the instrument so you don't have to fake it it in it's so particular in so granular that love that i knew that i it. It would be so much fun for me to be able to to express that. I feel like area a lot of technique involved in acting but that you know beyond that technique v really special scale of a great actor is a kind of fear less open heartedness willingness to step off a cliff as often in front of other people and certainly with other people to back. Come naturally to you. Yes stepping off the cliff acting wise was i don't know kind of a joy i didn't have any of that Fear i'm yes. I have fear. Of course i get nervous. I i fear can drive me to a degree. But it's not. It's not a crippling thing at a motivating thing. I mean i think all actors negotiate to a degree with fear. But you know when. I do play and they say places on really happy that places that were. That's where we are that when the lights go down. I'm really excited to get on stage. I mean it's really fun. It's like yes it's it's much more of a big. Yes were you set on going to conservatory and becoming an actor when you were a teenager. Yeah i this artistic director of the alliance state or in atlanta fred. Chappell saw me in a play and and he asked me. Did i want to apprentice with his theater. Company in upstate. New york a place called up. It was in courtland courtland new york and so i went up when i was fifteen. My parents said yes. I want for three months and apprenticed in his company and it was. Just oh my god you know it was mind blowing was so it was such an amazing summer for me to be around professional actors and helping them off the stage in the dark and turning the turntable of at seeing changes and picking up their clothes hanging up their costumes and you know sweeping the stage after the show is over and then occasionally doing kind of parts in the chorus it was i just. I've completely fell in. Love your parents go with you now. Thank thank god and there was just one and we all live together in this big kind of boarding house. And i remember there. Was this one guy who quite a few times. In those three months he would do this. One man version of the wizard of oz and they had this pink blah. He had around his neck and he would play door. He played everybody play. Dorothy played the scarecrow tinman and of course and he was gay and i was fifteen and i didn't even know what game was and that summer i went. Oh wow all. These guys are gay in the company and it was just like. Wow this is so cool this world of all these actors where everybody can be whoever they whoever they are whoever they want to be. I just was very. I don't know i just went. I want to be in a community. That is as trusting. This community is where people are in it together and that that kind of really wear. I made up. My mind was was in courtland. We have so much more to get into with holly hunter. We'll talk about how unlike a lot of other performers she doesn't really want to write or direct or do show business things that aren't acting it's bullseye. For maximum fund dot org an npr. This message comes from npr sponsor nerdwallet a personal finance website and that helps people make smarter. Money moves have new money goals this year. Whether you wanna use credit card points to plan a family vacation abroad wants it safe or take advantage of low mortgage rates to refinance and save for your child's education. Nerdwallet is the best place to shop financial products to help. Make your money goals happens. Discover and compare the smartest credit cards mortgage lenders and for at nerdwallet dot com. There is so much black in the sciences that we want to celebrate so an honor of black history month. All this week shortwave is featuring conversations with black scientists and educators. He will doing incredible work and pushing for a world. Where science serves everyone listen. Now to the shortwave. Podcast from npr. Judge john hodgman. And i'm bailiff jesse for ten years ago i came on jordan. Jesse go and judged i dispute. Is chilly a soup stew. The judge has dispensed a decade of justice. He's the one person wise enough to answer the really important questions like. Should you hire a mime to perform at your own funeral. Here they cry. I want them to laugh. Do you really need a tankful of jellyfish in your damn living creatures. Cain only if they are decaying and which they will be real people real justice real comedy winner of the webby award for best comedy. Podcast the judge. John hodgman podcast every wednesday on maximum dot org. Welcome back to bullseye. I'm jesse thorn. I'm talking with holly hunter. She is of course the star of so many wonderful movies broadcast news raising arizona. Oh brother where art thou these days. She's starring on a brand new tv show. Nbc's mr mayor. Let's get back into our conversation when you graduate school. Did you go straight to new york when i graduated from carnegie mellon. Yeah from conservatory. Yes when i when. I graduated from carnegie. I i yes. I went straight to new york city. Which will you know was my spiritual I i had never had that connection with a place. The way that i had with new york. Did you already have it to had you been there or was it like a. Hey seed getting off the turnip truck and say a new york city just as i always imagined it he. I felt like a hazy getting off the turnip truck win went from georgia to pittsburgh And then pittsburgh is a small town but nevertheless you're in a conservatory. The the work load was daunting What was required of us. Young actors was very impressive and it was a real petri dish of pressure of creativity of seeing other actors who i greatly admired in that environment. You know cherry jones was two years ahead of me so i was watching cherry when she was nineteen years. Old being unbelievably brilliant. She was my first mentor. Really and i couldn't be in the same room with cherry. She just freaked me out so much. She was so talented It was it was. That's a beautiful thing for a young person to be in all of someone doing something that you want to be able to do. It's enlightening and affirming. I felt very affirmed to be at carnegie. And so then. When i went to new york and in some ways i was ready to be in new york because i'd been in that petri dish and new york is anything but a petri dish. It is dislike an explosion of people in variety. And everything it. It's it's everything. It's not one thing i need to ask you about two celebrity roommates that you had in your youth in new york city the first of which is jason alexander. How did you end up sharing an apartment with jason alexander. Well i had the great good luck to be introduced to a casting director joy. Todd and joy just believed in me. She just went kid. I'm going to help you. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get you a good job. And so why. When i first hit new york there was a screenplay for a movie called the burning and it was a horror film slasher and she said you know i in this. This is going to be a great opportunity for you. You could go to north tonawanda new york which was just outside of buffalo with a busload of other kids other young actors and be terrorized by like this guy named crops at a summer camp who had like giant scissors who was going to like. Do do bad things to us. So jason was on that bus. He was another one of the actors was going to be terrorized and so we were up. Therefore i don't know it was like i felt like maybe we were up there for months together. All of us young very bright eyed actors and so we all came back to new york really clubs that were kind of my first friendships in new york city and i hung out with all those guys after we after we got back and so jason and i decided to get a place together on the upper west side and we did and we live together for. I don't know maybe like a year or two. I can't remember. And then he his soon to be wife. And i believe that he's still married to her moved in what briefly and then they got a pledge together but that was also. That was the nineteen eighty. And i remember that. This was in the days of answering machines. And so jason that i would do like really real root once again. The height of silliness outgoing messages on her answering machines like we make up songs. He would play the piano. I would the piano. We would sing. We would You know does the days where people were doing wild and nutty things with their with their answering machine now. I miss that when you say people were doing wild and nutty things with their answering machines well lower specifically referring to theater dorks. Well why this didn't happen with you. Jessie wasn't a hitter. Torque i went to art school. We looked at it as a great opportunity to create the other celebrity roommate. I want to address is frances mcdormand. Who you know. The two of you have had such amazing sort of parallel track careers. Tell me how you ended up rooming with her. Well i did a play at the repertory theatre of st louis. Which at that time was called the loretto hilton theater. And i got a boyfriend that play a we were doing buried. Child by sam sheppard. So i came back to new york with this new boyfriend and his best friend with france boyfriend and a friend was going to yale at the time as a as a grad student. She and her boyfriend were so my boyfriend said hey list go up and visit my best friend and so we went up there and i met his best friend and i met his best friend's girlfriend who a friend. And and i. You know fran. And i i don't know man we just we. We recognize each other. We hit it off so she finished she graduated from real and then she and her boyfriend moved to new york and At that time me and my boyfriend were living in the north bronx because the north bronx was released cheap in the eighties. Anyway so we said hey. Why don't you guys. There's plenty of room up here in the north bronx. Why don't you guys get a place up here too. So they got place a couple of blocks from hours and then fram bloke broke up with her boyfriend. I broke up with my boyfriend and we had an extra apartment so we she moved in into my into my place and you know we. We had a blast we were. We were kind of broke. But of course when you're in your early twenties being broke is like no big deal. I mean it was an adventure in some way. I think you know it. It just felt If it didn't feel terrible it felt kinda fantastic. You know you take your pleasures where you can get them. Hey man i got. I got enough money to get a beer. Let's go to the bar that i've got enough money. We can go out to dinner next saturday night. Ten days from now you know that kind of that kind of thing. How did Joel coen into the picture. I was doing a broadway show and joel and ethan were casting blood simple and they came and saw me in the in the play that was doing and i met with them. They should allow you know it would be so cool if you if you do this movie and i said i can't. I'm i was leaving that. Show to open a broadway show and i said i am not available but i got. My roommate is great and she's available and so they met ran and you know in there. Were like wow. Who else is up there. In the north bronx so friend did blood sample and then joel began coming around to our place at this and we were stolen in the bronx. He started showing up up there into spending weekend with us and stuff because he and frame were together. And then we decided to move back in manhattan. And then fran and i moved into manhattan that she all got a place on the upper west side together and then the rest is history for those guys you ended up in blood simple just barely yes on once again on an answering machine theme. There's a thing to this conversation. Did they just keep you in mind. And that's how you ended up and raising arizona. Well yeah then. After that we were all friends you know. So then we were. We were hanging out together. we all went out to la. We rented a house in la together for like a summer or maybe it was a winter. I can't remember and that's when we were out in silverlake that's when they asked me to to look at the script for raising arizona which was one of the greatest grips that i had an still will have ever read. Did you expect that. You had a real shot at getting broadcast news when they were casting broadcast news. Not wanna like now because you weren't a famous person because it was out of my league but at the same time what's that thing it is that thing what you don't know what you don't know sometimes can't hurt you into a. There's a certain protection that provides it. There's an invincibility or there's something where you feel not that you're not human but like hey why not. What have i got to lose. That is particular. It's very specifically about being young. And when i did broadcast news i i was young and i knew that he'd been looking at other actors who were very famous to do that part. I mean there were just really. Well known people i was like. Wow this this. This is a can't believe he added cash part yet because he hadn't cashed it for like six months. My agent finally said. Why don't you go in for this thing. Because i've been hearing about it. But i never. I never was even curious about the script. I that's obviously not for me. So i win my agent. Got me the thing. I read it in just like breezed in talk about no fear. I had no expectation so no fear. So when i i walked in jim bill hurt was also in the room which okay so bill is somebody who does scare me. Bill was a one of those actors that i find Walks on sacred ground. You know i. I've seen altered states. I seen body heat is like. Oh my god this guy but nevertheless the material so much fun and jim was so unintimidated and so approachable and so fun for just fun. He's he's he's got a great sense of humor so we would just laughed and had a lot of fun and read through the entire script for a couple of hours and then went home. And then you know then. He offered me the part the next day minute libya then you can have the carrier pilots the cedric times. What no you missed them with ten minutes left. How can you talk to me about parking travels. No i could do it do it. Or i'll fry your fat ass still goodbye this good when you're in a movie like that you know. One of the things about doing comedy is that there are technical things to being funny. You know you have to hit the joke in the right way for it to work You know there's rhythm and put over an idea and contrast it with another idea for it to be you know what i mean. Those kinds of things are about for lack of better way of saying it trying to be funny. You know being funny on purpose selling a joke. And i wonder if you're in a movie like that that is so funny whether or not you are aware of the trying to be funny parts and movie like what like test news. Yeah well yeah you're you know. Of course it's a comedy it requires rhythm and timing but it also requires just just like doing teen in roberts show it requires belief you know you have your own set of roles as a character and all these other characters have their own sets of rules to and I think you know part of comedy is a collision of my rules with your roles in and also you know. My belief system is having a certain collision with your belief system and that's conflict but it's also comedy so you know but but i think that you know musicality is always part of comedy know thinking about what makes something funny as is you know. Three's funny four's not. It can come down to a certain level of mathematics or music that i think can be employed by by all actors who are in something that is supposed to be funny whether it's broadcast news or raising arizona or mr mayor. Are you proud of being funny is. It's just a particular is just another genre of of working that i think is really challenging in a whole different way from doing a drama it it requires different skills and i think i feel enlivened by that. It makes me excited to go to work. Like i love to go onto the set and they're shooting scene. Invalid doing that. Voice that little plays mccallum velez doing voice. The michaela has an impact cited to be part of something where people are being that silly. he's like. Oh fun bobby moynihan so silly. We're in that arena. We're we're in that world. Oh so i think that that is It's appetizing to to me. Go to work and being that that would because it requires a certain kind of dexterity that i am. I don't know i feel excited by it. Do you have your visions. I have ambition for my characters. But do i have ambitions As an actor like. I don't have a production company I don't really want to direct. I feel like. I've worked with so many gifted directors who were kind of born to do it that i feel. Yeah i i really love being an actor so but with my characters. I want to know more i feel like for my ambition lace lies lies lies. I can't tell you i. I think it's where my ambition legs because ambition is Inanimate holly hunter thank you for taking all this time to be on paul's i i'm i have admired your work for so long so much and i'm so it's such a thrill to to learn that are as as delightful and and brilliant in real life as you are onscreen. So thank you very much for doing this. Jesse holly hunter a legend. She is great on. Nbc's mr mayor which you can watch on a few different streaming platforms including peacock and hulu. If you haven't seen broadcast news. Now is the time. I mean if you haven't seen broadcast news that should be the top priority in your entire life. You should be skipping meals to get to broadcast news. Holly hunter lover. That's the end of another episode of bullseye. Bullseye is created in the homes of me and the staff of maximum fund in and around greater los angeles california here in my house. Everyone is buzzing about the film. Santa jaws. It's a movie about a shark. Where christmas santa claus hats on. Its fan real movie. I don't know this is what my kid is in to our show is. Produced by speaking into microphones our producer. Kevin ferguson hey soussan brosio. In jordan cowling are associate producers. We can help them. Casey o'brien and kristen bennett. Our interstitial music is by dan. Wally also known as dj w our theme song is by the go team thanks to them and to their label memphis industries for sharing it. You can also keep up with our show on twitter. Facebook and youtube. We post all our interviews there. And i think that's about it. Just remember all great. Radio hosts have his signature. Sign off bullseye. With jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by npr. This message comes from npr sponsor capital one welcome to banking reimagined capital. One checking and savings accounts have no fees or minimums and top-rated banking app. That lets you manage your money anytime. Anywhere capital one. Na member fdic.
Rob Huebel, Star of Medical Police
"The Bulls eye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR. So I'm Jesse Thorn it's BALZAC so there is a new show coming to Netflix. Shows where the title kind of tells you everything you need to know. It's called medical police gas medical police. It Stars Rob Huber. Who is my guest? Rob is a veteran comic actor. He broke through in two thousand seven on the MTV sketch. Show human giant alongside season. Sorry and Paul Scheer. He's been in many many other things. Maybe you know him. As last from transparent apparent he was on the League on thirty rock and maybe his best known role was on me. Totally bonkers adult swim show children's Hospital Children's hospital was a medical drama parody. Where pretty much all of the doctors are truly awful at their jobs? He played Dr Owen. Maestro who was also a bad doctor OCTA when used to be a cop in New York City but left after September eleven children's hospitals last episode aired in two thousand sixteen which brings us to medical police. The new show picks up where children's hospital left off focusing now on Owen played by rob and his ex girlfriend friend. Dr Lola Spratt played by Erin Hayes. Here's the premise. Lola Oh and discover a deadly virus one that could end life as we know it and together with the government specifically the Centers for disease control the two of them start traveling the world to see who made the virus and find a cure they they are medical police. Here's one of my favorite scenes from the show in this clip. Lola just confess. She's having cold feet about the mission and as you're about to hear Rob's robs character is giving her a pep talk. Hey listen to me. Never Happiness Berlin. We got shot out of the sky. uh-huh and left for dead. Yeah no backup or support we do. We knew we continue to Florence Sudan Denmark France also Florida to a lesser degree. Bought the now. Here we are before. Chang Hi yes. Shanghai China which is where we are but isn't it a matter for the police. We are the police and doctors which makes us cop doctors. Oh I was gonNA say Dr Cops. I like that better. I appreciate what you're trying to do but oh you don't make me feel better guns. I really thought they were GonNa let us bring them on the plane. That's my bad view. Compatibles it's nice to see you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you Jessie. Congratulations on this. Very stupid television show. It is so stupid and when I hear stuff like that it makes me laugh so hard. That's my favorite sort of comedy is dumb silliness. I watched recently all I have a TV VCR my cabin. And when I was in Whoa. There's a lot to unpack right. There and I was at the thrift store and I found the VHS is of police squad yeah television in program. Yeah Wow and I watch those recently and I think it might be my favorite for like I. I'm supposed to be accommodate sophisticate. We're on public radio. Course I just like ten thousand jokes in a row and silly jokes too. Yeah I loved all that stuff like airplane lane and Just all those really kind of silly movies and stuff where there were so many jokes going on like even in the background. There'd be some something coming funny happening in the background while the people in the foreground are talking seriously laugh. This remember one when you sit this one episode showed where they're talking about police steph in the foreground and then in the background a Gurney or whatever gurney. That doesn't have wheels is called stretcher. You're a stretcher. A stretcher comes into the scene but then as the guy is carrying it it just crosses the entire frame and keeps going and going and going and going and going like one one of those handkerchiefs. That comes out of magicians longest stature going and go the man must be forty feet long longman family. The back end of the stretcher crosses the I love stuff like that man. I think that stuff so funny What else did you really love when you were a kid? Well my mom mom was like a big comedy fan and I have two brothers. I'm in the middle and we all kind of grew up kind of like with my mom sense of humor. I think because she just sort would've raised us on like old seventies. SNL In like you know. John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd and when Steve Martin was on there so I loved all that stuff and then yeah like you know later Eddie Murphy and so all that stuff resort and then you know. I loved like In the eighties. I loved all like anything. Chevy Chase did a loved you know caddyshack and like my brothers and I used to just quote every line of Fletch. Like I knew every single line China. Fletch I just thought I really wanted to be Chevy Chase. You know he was just so funny and physical and like I. I love that type of comedy. You know I love actors actor that can do that. They can be like making seem really serious but then just do something really silly and dumb like fall down the stairs or get hit by a car like I just think that's so Oh cartoony and funding. I'm not surprised to hear you say that you were a fan of Chevy Chase and I too am a fan of Chevy Chase. I could watch Chevy Chase. Do Chevy Chase he stuff yeah indefinite Chevy Chase. Yeah Yeah. Classic is a few things recently. He's been quite sure I love to watch him. Be Say be an idiot with a completely straight face and I love to watch him be a monster with a completely straight face. Yeah yeah both of those are funny to me forever. I think that I mean when when we started doing children's Hospital and I do think that Quadri dreary and David Wayne and those guys that that write all this stuff for us like they're such fans of that style of absurd comedy you know it's like dumb comedy for smart people that sort of stuff to me just makes me laugh so hard and like just you know when you're shooting at it just becomes a contest of trying not to laugh because you're just saying the craziest silly stuff but you're saying it like a doctor or in this show were saying the cops because in the show were doctors in cops now which makes total sense and So yes just to say stuff. That's really absurd but with a totally early straight face and say it with like a sense of urgency and sincerity is so fun to me like it just makes me because as soon as they cut. You just laughed so hard you know but I think specifically one of your gifts and like if you compare it to rob Cordray who created children's hospital this show From which this one is spun off. Yeah and I should clarify fan of his at all we have an ongoing feud both personally and professionally not a fan of his correct. Yes personally I have restraining order against him. Oh He's not allowed to even look at me a legal restraining order That's a good question. I'm not sure if the guy that I did. This through has any sort of law degree. You just do it at one of those document places where they like out yet as like a Shiite. Yeah it's like a guy in a van behind the Safeway and he filled out. If I felt that the former I took a picture and then he sped off and I assume that it got processes you bet on craigslist I get it on craigslist. Yeah so it's reputable so great so cordray can't mess is with me. Rob Cordray's onscreen character is as silly as yours but I think rob is a kind of sweet wheat doofus. Yeah yeah because he's just got such. He's got a very winning smile. I think he could sell any doofus thing with with his sweet smile. Yeah you on this show to some extent but in a lot of things you often play a truly bad person. Sure yeah I I'll take that and that's what makes me think of. That's what makes me think of Chevy Chase's Chevy Chase's performances which is like you have played so many Brad's Chad Davin Perry Yeah for sure yeah a lot of Todd's Tad just Gavin it just people that you that you wouldn't want to be friends with their usually. I specialize I pay my rent like plane jerks. And you're a nice man. I want to stipulate. AP late that. You're a nice man. I know I know you'll longtime in real life and your your sweet guy. I appreciate that thank you. Yeah but I mean that's why I like plane those people and and again like I think just with my brothers growing up horsing around the kitchen table. It's just you sort of develop your sort of little toolbox of what you're what you're funny with and what kind of what kind of guy you can do you know and I was sort of good at doing the jerk guy. You know. Just the oblivious guy. He's like cocky total idiot though you know but he thinks he's like super awesome so yeah I just think these guys are 'cause I'm because I don't think I am like that but when I see people like that out in the World Com on look at your south you are such an idiot and then so I just try to remember what that that guy was like sort of channel that person you know I heard that you and Kids from your neighborhood would knock off Saturday night. Live sketches for parents. My Gosh Yeah. I don't know who does your research. That's awesome yeah we would do. There was a girl in our neighborhood who lived down the street from us and we were They had kids all that matched our ages. And so we would play with these kids. A lot and their older sister would tape Saturday night. Live and then transcribe transcribe it and then we would put it on like the next day or something Butler like an a couple of days later so we would basically just do verbatim. SNL sketches which by the way the writers guild should come to my house and arrest me for doing that but Yeah we would just do that. You Know I. I'm sure I was like eight years old ten years old and we would just do that in our friends basement for our parents or whatever and our parents were probably like. Where are they getting this stuff? These kids are geniuses the cone heads what what cheeseburger cheeseburger like where these routines that they're coming these characters you know. We're we're just totally ripping off like not even parodying like just verb reading back the sketches from the previous night. What's amazing about it to me is that you are part of a cohort of performers who all became professionals many very very successful professionals? And you did it by pursuing the one comic art that absolutely we cannot be a career. So improvisation yes correct. There are like there's there's like you're not gonNA make money eight people at the the second city in Chicago. Yeah Who Do half Improv? There's a few people on our second city cruise ship somewhere. They make money. There's some people at a thing called Boom Chicago Kogo in Amsterdam Amsterdam's Yep and that's the full complement of professional full-time professional improvisers money. Everybody else the The hundreds two thousand other young people improper not getting paid. It's not a lucrative A hobby at all your ear. You'RE NOT GONNA make money but I mean the thing that it does give you. Is you learn to write your because you're essentially writing on your feet. You're making stuff up with someone else else as your as the audience is watching. And so it's it's basically writing in so that sort of muscle For me has has paid off. If in other ways you know like now I feel like I can. I can sort of write comedy better. Come up with a lot of times like when I got hired on a show or a a movie or something. I'm like I think why got cast is to hopefully improvised so usually the director come into a rob hugh they want. They want to Rob Hubel type to come into a rob Hubel thing I hope so. Oh God I hope so but yeah so. I assume that like they're going to kind of let me do my thing a little bit and let let me kind of improvise in sort of try to beat the jokes that they already have. You know. So I'll I'll do all the stuff that scripted for sure. Let's get that and then hopefully flee they'll let me do you know run of my own ideas also but yeah so so. I think it's hopefully paid off in other ways and I kinda got very lucky in back back in New York Doing commercials like 'cause I was doing all that Improv stuff in sketch comedy in for free as you mentioned and then somewhere in there I took a commercial mersal acting class with like Jason. Man's Zukas and Jessica Saint Clair and like Lennon Parham. We're all the same Brian Eski. So we're on the same commercial Marshall Class together and then from that I got I started getting commercials and so then I was. I was able to like Kinda quit my little day jobs. CBS You know and just make sweet sweet commercial bread. I'm talking about the Olive Garden Bro. I'm T- I guess we can't name people on this show because you can name. I'm talking talking about McDonald's the Olive Garden Fedex Kinko's what other corporations did I plug. You're inconsiderate I was that was my that was one of the first commercials I did. I was and that was for. I don't think this company is running more. There was company a cell phone company called singular and they had a commercial used to play before movies across the country and it was just a reminder to turn your cell phone off and it was just me being a jerk on my cell phone got inconsiderate cellphone man and so it's just a montage of this guy in terrible situations being a jerk on his cellphone. Hey drew a in the concert. Thanks for the invite. Tell her I'm all I think I. I mentioned I was going to interview you on twitter and several people brought that up. But that's something that will follow you to my to my grave that will follow me to my grave of and then there's a meme of me that will follow me to my grave also in which is from Children's Hospital which is me in a With a very very thick mustache Not as aggressive as yours but In a blue tuxedo throwing glitter and So that little GIF is is out on the Internet and that's a little moment from children's hospital but now that that gets sent around everywhere that gift for like birthdays and you know whatever so I'm like this meam team and I I do think that when I ultimately die like get hit by a bus crossing the street. They'll play that at the Emmy awards hopefully like Oh in Memoriam Korea. And they'll play like my little glittered clip. He was the poor man's rip Taylor again just ripping off ripped out. We'll finish up with rob Hubel after the break. Stay with us. It's both high for maximum dot org and NPR. We are you know how every year vow that this will be the year you start keeping up with the news more will that resolution just got easier the NPR politics podcast. Is there every day by five pm to keep you up to date on all the latest political news and explain what matters listen daily. Hey Gang Jesse here the founder of maximum fine with me is Stacy Mall Ski. Who is among other things? The lady who responds to all of your tweets a high everyone. I also send you newsletters so anyway. Something really awesome you Max. Listeners have given us the chance to do something really cool cool on behalf of our entire community and we wanted to tell you about last summer following the Max Fund drive. We put all of the Enamel on sale to ten dollar. Not members with proceeds going into the National Casa G. A. L. Association for Children. Your generous support and enthusiasm raised over a hundred thousand dollars are bookkeeper. Keeper staff would be quick to tell me the exact total is one hundred nine thousand and twenty five dollars to be exact. Your money will go toward pairing kids who've experienced abuse or neglect with court appointed advocates or Guardian ad-litem volunteers. In other words kids in tough spots will have somebody in their corner knowledgeable grownups who are on their team through court dates and life upheavals and confusing situations. Whatever the money we raised together is going to help a lot of kids whether you bought pins the answer not you can help us build on that one hundred and nine thousand dollar foundation make a donation to support? National Casa G. A. L. and help some of our nation's most vulnerable children at maximum fund dot org slash C A s that's maximum fund dot Org Slash Casa. And seriously. Thank you our community rules. Welcome back to bulls eye. I'm Jesse Thorn. My guest is Rob Hubel. He's an actor who performed on transparent and human giant on the League and more. He's The star of the new show. Medical police a spin off of the hit adult adult swim. Show Children's hospital. It's a spoof about doctors who carry guns and travel the world fighting disease and crime. It's streaming now on Netflix. You became a father a few years ago. Yeah and your daughter was born Very prematurely yes. What were the circumstances? ooh Jesse we took a hard turn buddy and we were talking full full on comedy. I now know I can do this. I've talked about this before. The good news is is. My daughter is super healthy and she's a maniac but she's super healthy it. She's three and she's like is tall and strong in lean and she's driving us crazy right now but yes. She was born at twenty ninety six weeks. And so you know a full term baby is I believe forty weeks and So this baby came however many weeks that is early you know and so became became fort fourteen weeks early. She was under two pounds when she was born and she was just a tiny town. I mean she was you. You know a basically a baby bird you know like just the smallest little thing and We don't know exactly why it happened. I mean they tried to kind of go. Go back and figure it out later. But there's not that much that they can tell all the time and so my wife basically just started having contractions. We were like furniture shopping over. We're luckily we were near the hospital. And and all of a sudden my wife was like Something's wrong and like I was like what's wrong. And she's like I think we when you've got the hospital and so we just sped over the hospital and they took her up initially they. We thought like Oh okay they can just slow down. These contractions and everything that you don't know what's happening and it's the most terrifying thing because you don't have any clue you know. So we thought well they'll keep her for a few days as and they'll slow down. These contractions whatever so that turned into a week which turned into ten days and then finally they just couldn't slow down the contractions anymore and so it became the sort of thing. We think. You're going to have the baby tomorrow and we're like wait. What like what are you even talking about? You know a baby born at twenty six weeks. That's pretty it close to like the cutoff point of viability of whatever that is survivability so this baby came three months early and then we stayed in the nick you Over there for a hundred and seventeen days. Now I've Kinda like put it in a box in my mind so I don't really open that box that much unless I'm on a podcast like I know you know we we at the time we were so freaked out by it. The kind of all we could do. I didn't know anyone else that had gone through that experience and So at the time all we would do is look through instagram for hashtags. That matched touched our daughter. So We'd like search twenty six weaker or preemies or Hashtag. Nick you or anything like that. And we'd find someone that was in the same situation that we were and then and we would just like scroll through their instagram and looked to see how it panned out for them and so sometimes it worked out. Sometimes they had you know Oh really complicated situations you know so. We just didn't know what was going to happen. And ours was like two steps forward one step back but you know we finally got her home after one hundred seventeen days and she was on oxygen for like six months at home. But you know now. She's doing great. I always try to be as public about it as I can Dan because when It's like anything like whatever you're going through someone else has already gone through it and someone else is coming up behind behind you so You know when people reach out to me on like instagram or twitter. Whatever I try to be as is open about it as I can Dan because it was so scary for us and all you all you are looking for is like someone to tell you that things are going to be okay? A family member of mine had two very premature children that the first around the time in her pregnancy. That your your wife had your baby and Because she my my family member was pre ECLAMPSIA and in fact nearly died in the process of of having the baby. And the baby's are the kids are doing great now. Yeah and then you know with the second child because of her Pre ECLAMPSIA and the first they they had the baby on purpose early to keep my family members safe and one of the milestones that I remember from those was girls growing up in their both. Like Preschool Age. Now was the point at which there was no longer her two ages being capped. Yeah an age from the day they were born and an age from the day that there they were scheduled to be born. Yeah Yeah it's real like My daughter was supposed to be born on December. The Twenty eight th. But she was born on September the twenty eight and so they're you know that adjustment that adjusted age you have to factor that in for the first like few years because people are dealing with them as though they are one age but they're they're really this other age you know and then eventually that line becomes blurry and blurry thankfully and And then it just kind of melts away and then you're like. Oh they're now they're just this age but yeah that is something I remember so vividly of just like having to explain that to everybody. You know while she's this age but she's actually this issue now now just to doctors and therapists and stuff like that that you're dealing with but Yeah I mean the human body is bananas. That's an understatement. But like it's just crazy to wash like I picked. I picked her up from preschool. Today she ran over me and she's like laughing and talking talking about some bug that they were all laughing outside or something stupid bugs and And it's just like it's just weird. Sometimes I just look at it and I'm like because I know has she started and it's just it it blows my mind into like into oblivion to think about it like that you can go from something that is so tiny and fragile and like just barely hanging onto life to just like keep going keep going keep going like and then you just keep going and going and then you become this full on person with like opinions unions. And now she's like making jokes about stuff you know and like cracking us up like when she goes to bed at night. My wife and I are like so tired and like poor giant glass of wine. Sit on the couch but like my wife will say like all the time my wife will say like. It's weird appeared that she's hours like it's so weird. I think sometimes when I see a picture of my family members kids you know on facebook. We live in a different coast than I do. So I don't get to see them in person that much but I think Lasik if something that that my family member told me is you. You know if this kid had been born when I was born is born in Nineteen ninety-one it's not like I was born a thousand years Jayco but if this kid had been born the year that I was born I wouldn't get to look at a yeah healthy healthy for your old. Yeah the obviously I mean. Medicine is just You know expanding in doing all of this awesome awesome things like at such an exponential rate but like. Yeah we had I remember. I remember when we brought our daughter home. We were having we're done on our house and The contractor was like in this big burly guy who had a beard that would rival your beers. Jesse guy should have a beard fight. I don't know if people know Jesse's beard right now but it is it is aggressive No it's awesome but So this guy was like Oh yeah I was a Preemie preemies of twenty eight weeks from now I was like Oh really man. That's so cool. He's I Back when I was born my mom didn't and when I came home they put me in a shoebox and they would put me behind the stove to keep me warm and I was like for real like yeah like he grew up in Minnesota or somewhere in uh just like man like life can just fight. It's just amazing. Like how the human humans will will just fight. They are fighters you know. Do you feel like having gone through something like that has affected the way that you approach the rest of your life. Yeah yes and You know it sort of puts everything in perspective in whatever it is like. I feel like everybody's you you know they say everybody's going through something and so I just try to remember that now I just try to. I think I'm more aware of that. Maybe that like oh I went went through this. There are other people that are going through this right now. There are people right now at the hospital. That are in Nicu's all over the country that are going through this. Oh if I if anyone hears this or knows anyone that's that this might give them some encouragement like I love that. I have that thing now like like my wife and I have that thing. We have that thing that we can be. Maybe some little help or encouragement to somebody else. Because before I didn't have that like I was just a guy doing my thing and making comedy trying to you know be funny and movies and stuff but I didn't have like a thing that was like oh I can actually connect with view about a real life thing and I might be able to encourage you in some way so now like we have that you know and I think if you look at your your life like that or if you look at like those hard things how can I try to use that as a way to be helpful to the people behind me that are going through that also and I mean you know you have stuff like that to where whatever it is that that is in specific to your family or your kids or your marriage or your something that you went through at work you know whatever the everyone has or will go through something. That's like going to give you your thing that you can help the person behind you can throw a rope down to them like grab on because like I can. I can hopefully give you a little bit of hope. You Know Rob. I really love your show medical police which is ashore in which you play doctor who becomes the doctor policeman. Yeah I hadn't travels the world Dr Policing in the style of a television vision procedural show cop doctor Dr Cop we. I can't even remember. Yeah Medical Medical Medical Police. That's medical police and I don't want to I just going to play just to as a sort of flake eating a cracker when you're doing a Wine tasting or something something. Yeah in a play one more stupid clip from your stupid show that I love lease before we go you and your partner Dr Lola Spratt that have apprehended. Someone that that you thought was a terrorist and shot and killed Tim and then they figure out or the shot him. I think the shoot him in the arm. Yeah we have quite that. He's not dead he's hanging on and then you realize that there's this this whole other explanation for all the clues that you thought were for sure. The reason that he was definitely the guy date. This is why we may have really messed up on your has seen. Yeah it's kind of funny you do. We actually thought you were a terrorist. Because I'm listening. No no no no no if anything in spite of that fact no trust us. We have had precisely that conversation and we're also not suggesting that there is a simple one size fits all solution for these problems. This is the kind of dialogue. We should all be having Dan. That's exactly it's a it's a given given it's everybody for all of us. Didn't Hewlett High. Thank God listen so We shot him but we also saved his life so it Kinda evens out the doctors do you can shoot someone and then you just patch them up. Move on move on down the road. Rob Thank you for thank you for your candour are talking with me today. And thanks for this great show that It's high-spirited stupidity will Bring warmth and comfort to many lives. Thanks Jesse I I. I'm a big Fan and I love doing the show. Thanks for having me Rob Hubel medical police his so funny I cannot I cannot or not I cannot tell you how funny medical police is. It is full of laughs I can't wait for you to see it. It's streaming right now on net flicks. That's the end of another episode of Bullseye. Bullseye is produced at maximum fun dot Org World Headquarters Overlooking Macarthur Park Karen Beautiful Los Angeles California where there was a film shoot in the park not an uncommon occurrence. A lot of great movies have been shot in Macarthur Park. The subject of this one to guys wearing matching gray tracksuits both wearing bright red shoes with identically styled beards and men bonds and and later on they changed into leopard. Our show is produced. By speaking into microphones. Are Producers Kevin Ferguson. Hey seuss Ambrosio. Is our associate producer. We get help from Casey. O'Brien I just saw with a giant electric piano in the office. Are Production fellows are Jordan cowling and Melissa. Dwayne yes are interstitial. Music is is by Dan. Wally also known as DJ. W who knows maybe Casey's gunning for his job. Our theme song is by the go team. Our thanks to them and their label Memphis Industries for letting US use it and one last thing we have done almost two decades of bullseye and the show that preceded it the sound of Jiang America. We had human giant on when human giant was new. Rob Bugles MTV sketch group. You can find that interview on our Bullseye page at maximum fork you can also find us on facebook twitter and Youtube. Just search for Bullseye. With Jesse Thorn keep up with the show there and I think that's about it. Just remember all great. Radio hosts have a signature signed on Bullseye. With Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and distributed by N._p._R..
Billy Eichner & Ali Wong
"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from answer net essentials from Comcast. Connecting more than six million low income people to low cost high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more. Now, they're ready for anything pegging its Jesse before we get into this week show. Quick message for you giving Tuesday is happening this week. That's the day when instead of going to the mall or opening up your web browser to buy a bunch of stuff. You donate some money to causes that you care about I'm guessing because you are listening to my voice right now that you care about public radio. I know that I do I support my local station. It means a lot to me to have that resource ever available. Whether I'm listening on the radio or be a podcast or NPR one or whatever else public radio is a news lifeline for me. It's where I know I can get thoughtfully considered in-depth coverage of what's going on in the. The world. But it's also one of the only places in media, I trust to go to for insights into culture in the arts like the kind of stuff that you get on bulls. I mean, I don't I don't I'm not listening to bullseye in direct getting insights from that. But other shows I think, you know, what I'm saying public radio actually needs your support. That's what keeps the lights on keeps shows like this happening. And all that money comes from you, supporting your local station. You can do it right now. Go to donate dot NPR dot org slash bullseye. Then tell your friends why you gave why public radio matters to you. With the hashtag your public radio. Donate dot NPR dot org slash bullseye. Well, if I with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org. In is distributed by NPR. I'm Jesse thorn. I went through a six month phase where I only would speak to my parents in the peewee voice. Not a joke that try where I wouldn't do it at school. But when I got home I'd be like Marilyn breakfast. You know, and there was a period to when I would force. My mother to answer me in the peewee voice. My poor like middle aged Jewish mother in queens would have to be like. It wasn't pretty that. Man is Billy Eichner. And today he has his own TV show. And it is great. It's bullseye. This week Billy I on his hit show Billy on the street. Billy quizzes bewildered New York pedestrians on the topics that are nearest and dearest to his heart including but not limited to Britney Spears, Meryl Streep and Madonna Meryl Streep is better than glencoe. Okay. How great what you and then alley wall. She's a standup comic who recorded her breakthrough special when she was seven and a half months pregnant, seven months pregnant so much baby. It was a tremendously tough thing to do something. She is still very proud. But she can't help. But wonder was there an easier way to make it big? There are women. I believe out there who just choose. And I'm like, what am I doing? I made all the wrong decisions. Finally, I'll tell you about the Taurus. And composer created bossa Nova saw coming up on bullseye. Let's go. It's bowls. I Jesse thorn. My guest is Billy Eichner. We talked in two thousand thirteen he hosts one of my favorite shows. Billy on the street. Maybe you've seen it. If you haven't. Here's the premise Eichner goes out on the streets of New York City and asks random passersby pop culture quiz questions if they get them, right? They win money only. If you're imagining something like cash cab or something it is definitely not that the host is a manic petulant Madonna obsessed man who shouts at his contestant storms off from them before they can finish their sentence. And if they win that big cash prize, it's usually a dollar the shows since returned to its home on funnier die. It's great as ever he just did a bit with Tiffany haddish where they tried to cast a new more woke version of hocus pocus, the ninety three witch comedy starring Bette midler and Sarah. Jessica parker. It's Tiffany haddish. Hi. How are you? Yeah. We're gonna make an more inclusive. Hocus pocus are you straight in white? Yes. Oh, okay. We need Asian which is the show's best moments, though, aren't always with celebrities like in this clip when Billy found a man with some very firm opinions about Meryl Streep who's better Meryl Streep or Glenn Close Clinton close by. No truth mills tweak is her name is Meryl Streep Meryl Streep which is a porn star. I'll kill squeakers. Oh, she's Dutt know Meryl Streep is better than Glenn cook. Okay. I'll great what you. Billy eichner. Welcome to the show. Hi, I love that clip. That man is an amazing, man. He is he is very carefully turned out. Yes, also missing teeth missing a few teeth, and he continues the segment after you have left the frame. That's right for minutes. Absolutely. I walk away, and this semi toothless, man. He may or may not be homeless. I don't know if he is. So very sharp though for a homeless guy. He's got it sharp, and he has some very passionate opinions about Meryl Streep even though he says streak and Glenn Close. He really loves Glenn Close. He must watch damages. I don't know. How I I like that. He's a big fan of you to he he he is emphatic about making the point. It's incredible years. That's one of my favorite clips of all time. And I haven't heard it in a while. So that was fun. I I wrote we have this called the outshot on the show where I recommend some. And I wrote one about your show because. Introduction. I think it's totally great. Thank you very much. And one of the things that I said was that your character on the show? I mean, we've only interacted for about five minutes, but you're not like that in real life new that would be real exotic be terrifying. Life to lead reminds me a lot of peewee Herman. That's right in the it is very. Is very childlike in petulant. For sure for sure and you're not the first person to make the comparison, and it is like a huge honor for me just for someone to make that comparison because and I never thought about peewee while I was, you know, started making these videos and doing the show, but when people bring it up, I think yes, of course, because when I was a kid I was completely obsessed with peewee Herman for period of time. I religiously watch pee wee's playhouse. I would get up Saturday mornings eleven AM wake up way before eleven AM because I was like seven, and I I loved him so much. I love the world created on that show. I love pee wee's big adventure. I love big top pee. We the movies. He did with Tim Burton. And there was a phase where I went through a six month phase where I only would speak to my parents in the peewee voice joke. Try where I wouldn't do it at school. But when I got home I'd be like Marilyn breakfast. You know, and. I. Exactly. Let's not keep doing that voice. But my and there was a period to when I would force. My mother to answer me in the peewee voice. My poor like middle aged Jewish mother in queens would have to be like. It wasn't pretty, but I swear that's the case. And I just I just love peewee so much. And so when people mention to me now that something about what I do. I'm Billy on the street is similar to peewee Herman. I'm just like floored by it. I think that's the highest compliment one of the things about peewee Herman is a character that is driven by his childlike nece. I mean, it's never it p we'd is sort of doesn't have an age. Exactly. Right. Maybe some of the early things he's does on Letterman and stuff like that. There's civic age. But generally, he's not of an age. Let's correct. Yeah. But one of the things that he does that is like a child is invest enormous stakes into very stupid silly. Yes matters. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. That's sort of the premise of Billy street in a way. I mean, I'm very pop. I mean, it's a it's a character. Sure. Even though I use my real name. But it is rooted in parts of my personality, obviously like since I was a kid since I was like that peewee Herman obsessed child. I was not just pee obsessed. I was completely obsessed by pop culture and the entertainment industry, and this is before the internet. So, you know, I my father, and I would read page six together like the gossip column in the New York Post when I was six years old like instead of nursery rhymes like I was reading about you know, celebrities. So what I'm doing? I'm Billy on the street. Although it's twenty years later is really taking that like the tenth power like it's a very exaggerated exaggerated version of my it'd fit in a way, you know, or or what my it was as a kid, and I just said it is a kid, but. Yeah. I I enjoy it. I think it's it's so silly. It's so absurd. Like when people say the show is absurd. I take that as like a complimented huge compliment because you know, that's the kind of comedy. I like, you know, it's peewee. It's when I grew up watching Martin short love Martin short, you know, on us Annell, and that's just a I don't know. I sort of not the same as good as those people. I'm not. But I I come out of that tradition. I'm inspired by those people. And so, yeah, I wanna play another clip of you performing this is actually a clip from the Conan O'Brien show, which is called Conan. This is you've done a series of Madonna related man on the street videos, for of course, I there's one where there's one where you go to see Madonna at the Super Bowl there's one where you go to see her at Yankee Stadium. There's one where you go see your in Tel Aviv. Yes. Well, the order is Conan and the people at and have been incredibly generous to me, and so supportive. They had an idea. You know, they saw my videos. I saw Billy on the street, and they sent me I did his show just as a regular guest, and I showed clips for my show sort of typical talk show appearance. And then they call the next day. And they said do you want to go to the Super Bowl? We have great access at the Super Bowl. You wanna go cover it for us? And I said, yes sure mean I can't turn that down. But I didn't know what my angle would be because I don't give about football. And yet it is a big kind of pop culture event like it goes beyond football. And it turned out that of all the years for me to be asked to go to the Super Bowl. Madonna was the halftime show this year. And I was a huge still am like, you know, unabashed unashamed huge Madonna fan. But especially as a kid, you know, as a gay kid growing up in the eighties. Hello, you know, she was at and she still has to me and to many people, but it turned out Madonna the halftime show. And so we thought like, oh, here's the idea that I would go to Indianapolis to the middle of the country where the Super Bowl is happening. And I would only care about Madonna at the Super Bowl that I wouldn't care about the Super Bowl at all. And I'd go up to people who have traveled all over to come to the big game and ask them about Madonna, and when they didn't care which many times, they did not I got really angry about Madonna. Donald. She's. And then the amazing thing is that Conan's show somehow gummy on the field at the Super Bowl. So I'm on the field. I saw Madonna show from the fifty yard line. And then right after the game. I ran up to the players like on the field after the giants had just one ask the players. You know, I didn't ask them about the game. I said how did you like the Madonna CSU Donna show? They obviously for like. Doing strategy in the club. Yeah. They were like, no I was in the locker room. Advantis amazing game is something that was horrible for me here. You know, we knew it wasn't going to be relations. Did you see John? Did you see Madonna? Walker? So this is a clip from the third in your Madonna video trilogy. This one's at Yankee Stadium. Yeah. So what happened was then after the Super Bowl Conan's sent me to Israel to cover the opening night of Donald world tour telling me, he was sending me to cover me to cover the nuclear crisis between Iran, and Israel, but I only cared about Madonna, and then finally Madonna came to New York did you her Yankee Stadium, and again, somehow I got access and I was allowed to ambush Madonna onstage Yankee Stadium while she was rehearsing. Let's let's take a listen. Did you rocko loves me could never met you? What? Weirdo on great. You're not great. Are you doing holiday tonight? We're not doing. Let's go. Let's go. What what we're not doing? Spoils? I'm Jesse thorn, my guest, Billy Eichner is the host of Billy on the street. This game is called dead or boring. And you just I mean, this is just like a young lady who looks like she goes to fashioned school and has a giant blonde. Afro, what is your name Leanne Polian? What do you do New York? That's a drink my best friend just get drunk. Yeah. No come on. You have to do something else. Shop drinking and shopping while you look like the cowardly lion. And I like it. Okay. Okay. Here we go. We're gonna play dead or boring. I'm gonna rattle off a list of celebrity names. Tell me whether that person is dead or boring if they're dead you say dead, if they're boring you say, correct Pauline. Okay. If you get seven thirty seconds when a big prize. Okay. Ready to play. Yeah. Okay. Here we go put thirty seconds on the clock. Please ready to play debtor boring. Here we go Pauline dead or boring and away we go Elvis Presley that just correct, buddy. Holly, boring dead Taylor Lautner that no boring. Tiller law come on Audrey Hepburn forming. No dead. Randy Jackson, barring just direct James Brown dead. Just Greg Lauren Conrad. Let me just correct Jessica Tandy that just correct Heidi Montag. Let me just correct you puncture core just tiny Tim winner yet. Congratulations. Yes, paulie? Here's your prize. God it's tape. It's paper. Yes. Blank paper was her price. She was great. She was fun. Let's get the contestants the people I approach on the street. I mean, I do my thing and hopefully people like it. But really it's about these New Yorkers. This is real New York with the contestants themselves. We literally we decide what neighborhood we're going to we turn the cameras on the sound guy turns the Mike's on the PA's are behind me. And I start walking. I don't know who I'm going to approach until a second before I approached them, whether it's to ambush someone in and scare them or you know, with a lightning round question or longer ten minute game. We don't know what's going to happen. And so you're not getting a glossy sex and the City New York as much as I love that New York, but I grew up in New York, and these are my people, you know, like, I love New York a lot the person I imagined when I watch you on television is the person who after one of these interactions has to go to that person and get. Them to sign a consent form that's going to be the off show. Those conversations I get to keep walking because I gotta keep shooting the show. But what happens is after I have an, you know, interaction with someone whether it's for literally a second or twenty minutes, and you never know what it's going to be a PA one of our wonderful, relentless PA P have to go up to that person. And usually the person's like what the F just happened. Who was that? What happened to me? And then they have to we have to get a signature from that person in order to be able to use that clip on TV without blurring their face, and we don't want to blur faces because that's that'd be irritating to watch. Yeah. It's a process. Have you done things that are twenty minutes where you were like, oh freaking nailed it. And the person changes their mind at the end doesn't want to be on. Usually when they stick around with me for that long. Remember, this is not a hidden camera show. You know, people who are like, oh, how can you do that to people you kidding? You see what else is on television? That are hidden camera. Prank shows there are two cameras in your face and boom over your head and me a very loud tall gay man with the mic in your face. You know, what's happening? You know, this could possibly be seen somewhere. So if they stick around for twenty minutes, it's because they're they're cool with it. So it's rare that will lose something like the longer games like the quiz in the face segment, which usually goes on anywhere between like three to nine minutes, depending on how far they make it in the game. They almost always signed the release, plus they win money sometimes, and you don't get the money. Unless you sign the release. It's those that's a lightning round. You know, when I really am Bush people, and they're not looking at me, and I come up behind that. I'm like Amar glaze, and then literally I run away after saying just that and then someone comes up to them, and it's like missed you mind signing this release. So that appears on national television almost always the people that appear on the show. Are you know, bare minimum amused in confused and often really enjoying themselves talking to you there's this. There is one woman from the new season of the show. Her name is Elena who I really love and in love with her. So let's take a listen to Elena, you you recorded with her. The segment is, you know, t- ten minutes long, five ten minutes long and the whole time. She is physically leaving. She's attempting to get on the subway but continuing to play the game both of them at the same time. We'll take a listen miss miss. You wanna get quizzed in the face. You can win money right now on the street. What's your? Name Elena lane. I'm Billy nice to meet you. What's happening? I'm going now. That's okay. This'll be really quick. Okay. Here's what's going to work. If you get to what Obama. I didn't ask about that. Okay. If you get two questions wrong, you're out if you'd help answer your question, we can beg a stranger twice you can compliment my hands. Do you understand perfect? Here. We go Elena round one question one. According to be on say song run the world who runs this mother a girls be bears. See Lorne Michaels de freemasons heroes. Are you sure lane? Yes. Yes. Correct. Yes. Correct. You're onto question to here we go. Nothing. She question to Sinead. O'connor terrible photo of on Saturday Night Live in the ninety s while saying quote, a fight the real enemy. The pope be the president see Casey Wilson Petit those people in the sample picture when you buy a frame what that pope. Yes. Correct lane. Yes, or no at all thousand million dollars. You don't get anything yet. All okay, great onto question. Three. What are you worried about have to meet someone if things to do to TV shows I like to take the subway excuse me? You don't have to take the subway all the time. I have a metro card and everything I was born in queens. I love her. She's a wonderful woman. You have people you really that clip really sells itself when you see her facial expressions. I mean, it sounds funny too. But you gotta go. If you go on on the street dot com, we have the Elena clip, and she's just priceless. She stays with you the whole time. It's a very strange thing until the very end. And then she then she storms off what what is it? What is it that you wanted to tell me about are you? So there was this is great. So, you know, usually in order to see the full episodes. You have to watch them on Friday nights, ten o'clock nine central or you can buy them on I tunes, but we'll always release one or two segments. From each week's episode online, you know on Billy on the street dot com or on YouTube or whatever. So and you can like Facebook me and follow me on Twitter. And I always post those things. However, we anyway, so we posted the Elena clip her full clip online because she was so great. And someone one of the Billy on the street fans rights on my Facebook wall Elena lives in my building some guy recognized her some gay man, and Chelsea and New York where we filmed it probably I don't know if he's game just assuming. Recognize the lane. And I thought oh, that's very funny. A week later. He writes on my Facebook wall again, and he says, I forget his name is I would give him a shout-out because I love that. He wrote to me. He says he saw only you know, and the building asked her if she was aware of this being out there. Because of course, we film this months ago. And now it's finally out on television and Elena said she's been getting recognized in the subway, and she doesn't know why she doesn't fully remember shooting it, she kind of remember she doesn't know what it was just what it's on. And I just love the fact that she is getting recognized in New York that really makes me happy more from Billy Eichner after a quick break. Then later alley Wong talks about doing an entire stand up special onstage while seven and a half months pregnant. It's bullseye for maximum dot org. And NPR. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Rosetta Stone the app that teaches you to speak for yourself. A new language wanna gift something that could last a lifetime. Give one of twenty four languages this season. And help your loved one thrive in real world conversations built by experts. Not crowd. Sourcing Rosetta Stone goes beyond simple vocabulary with bite sized lessons. Visit Rosetta Stone dot com slash NPR for their best offer of the year. Mary mingling. What does it take to start something from nothing? And what does it take actually build it? I'm guy rise every week of how I built this speak with founders behind some of the most inspiring companies in the world find it on NPR one or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, JV club podcast, Janet Varney used to suffer from indecision. I couldn't choose between Star Wars and Star Trek whether to call or text or the best way to cook, my eggs now. Thanks to my weekly dose of we got this maximum fun. Decisions are made for me. Thanks, mark. How we got this. Call shouting foam throwing the allusion that the hosts can hear you laughter on public transit in death. We got this market. Now, we know what's best. It's bulls eye. Jesse thorn, Billy Eichner? He's the host of the hit comedy gameshow. Billy on the street. You can watch it now on funnier die. He's also performed on parks and recreation American horror story and Bob's burgers. We talked in twenty thirteen in assaulting all these people have you ever been in a position where you felt physically uncomfortable as concerned about your safety. Really one of the I once went up to an old lady who slapped me across the face, really hard. But I thought that was hilarious. Good for her. She should. You know, so far I haven't really been like attacked or anything again. It's not a hidden camera show. Sometimes there'll be some like gruff, dude who like, you know, we'll get pissed off. We put cameras in his face. You know, like, Sean Penn without the Oscars. Basically, you know, and they tend to get more annoyed at the cameraman than me. You don't touch the talent. Jesse even they know that, but they really they don't like the camera in their face. So they might like, you know, put their hand up or something. But no one's threatened. No one's really haven't had any like physical altercations with anyone. Well, except for the woman who hit you except for the one lady who slapped me across the face. But I like that many of the questions on the show are subjective questions, you're not afraid to really berate someone who disagrees with you on even subjects that aren't related to Meryl Streep in Glenn Close that mostly. But yeah after another things sometimes. And that Comey wondering about gameshow laws. Yeah. We are officially a game show the movie quiz show where there's a bunch of laws from the fifties about what you can. And can't do on it. We are game show. It is a real game show. We follow gameshow laws, and there are certain things we had to figure out in order to be able to do that. And do what I want to do on the show. What is giving an example? It's very complicated to be honest. And I don't really understand. It was a long game show lawyer. Yeah. Exactly. Well, there are there game show compliance, lawyers, and we have those and we, but we figured it out. I mean, put it to put it very simply for this objective questions. I just have to have my answer written down beforehand. I can't just make it up on the spot or tell someone they're wrong, just arbitrarily. And as long as we do that, we're following gameshow laws long as on the note card that you're holding. It says that beyond say's better than riana. Right. Exactly. Then then then I can walk away from someone who doesn't agree with me, and they lose, and that's okay, Billy. I love your show. I couldn't love it more. Oh, thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to be on bowls. I thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. I love that. Billy Eichner, you can find new episodes. Billy on the street at funnier die. You can also see him on American horror story on the wonderful, late lamented show difficult people so much more. He's also going to be playing the voice of Tim Mon in the new version of the line. It's Jesse thorn next up on the show. Allie wong. We talked in two thousand sixteen when Allie Wong walked out on stage to start her first hour-long special. It's kind of amazing in real life alley is pretty tiny. And usually she feels a lot bigger on stage because she's so bold. But in that special which is called baby Cobra she is literally much bigger because at the time she was seven and a half months pregnant, it was basically a smash. It got great reviews. Not because she's doing something. So physically grueling that frankly, I don't think I could ever do it in a million years, but because the special is unique and energetic and subversive in hilarious. She's gone on to act in a bunch of movies. You can hear her in the new Disney movie. Ralph breaks the internet just a few months ago. She released a new special on Netflix. It's called hard knock wife. It's also great. She did the entire special pregnant again, I don't know how she does this stuff. It's genuinely amaze. Anyway, Allie was born in raised in San Francisco. Her dad was Chinese American. Her mother is Vietnamese American her husband is half Filipino half. Japanese alley has a degree in Asian American. Studies that gets put to good use in her act like in this clip from baby Cobra here, she is talking about the benefits of having four distinct. Asian American ethnicities inaction in one house. I think that for marriage. It can be nice to be with somebody of your own race. The advantage is that you get to go home and be racist together. You get to say whatever you got to explain. My husband has Filipino have Japanese. I'm half Chinese and half Vietnamese. And we spend one hundred percent of our time. On Korean people. When love is Bill, Tom. My last way friend was Cuban and his family would on Mexican people all the time. And I was like hold a. Hugh guys are Mexican. How long it's great to have you on bullseye. Welcome back to the show. Thanks so much. It's so surreal to listen to that clip. I haven't watched baby Cobra since November's Saint one editing for it. What you've been busy. So I guess the first question is like what was the relationship between the plan to make the special which is the biggest deal in your career? It's the first hour long special is a huge break for every stand up. And the fact that you were doing having this huge thing in your personal life. Having your first child, you know, people had been talking to me about doing a special for a long time. And I was like, no, I I wanna wait. I wanna wait, and you can wait forever because you can be it can be better. And you know, working on jokes is endless. I kind of before the specially felt like all of these jokes were never really done. And then the first time I got pregnant which was two years ago. I was like, oh my God ahead out this about it ending my career. And then I was like I should just do special now. But then I had a miscarriage. And then I was like, I'm depressed. I'm not in the mood to do a special and then I got pregnant again. And I was like, okay. Let's do it because I don't do it. Now, I'm never going to do it. So. So it was more like it. I mean, it was a very conscious decision to do it. But it was more a personal decision because I wanted to believe that like a baby would not be the end of my career. And I wanted to associate with the beginning of something big and new was that because you felt like other comics, especially women comics had had their career pads altered by having kids. Yeah. For sure I mean, I think there there's definitely other female comics, who are moms who are awesome. But it's tough it even now with having my daughter, it's I'm exhausted. You know, and it's tough to motivate yourself to get up and go out and do a crappy set when you get no money. You get paid in literally like a slice of pizza, but that stage time is so valuable and you need it to grow and to do. New material, but it's hard to motivate myself to get up. And and it's I I mean, I can't go on the road for she's six months old now I can't go on the road until probably November when she stops breastfeeding. And even then the idea spending three nights away from her is is pretty tough. You know, I think. Because it's it's really the breastfeeding that makes it difficult to to get out because it's your your your body still involved. I mean, I didn't really completely understand that. But it's like for nine months. Your body is your the host, right? And then after that for a year your body's the kitchen for the baby, you know, it's a refrigerator and stand up just involves your body. You have to take your body out drive thirty minutes to Hollywood from Culver city and performed for ten minutes. Take your body back in the car and. Yeah. Because of that, it's it's it's difficult. I think for a lot of stand ups who are moms. There's also for a lot of people. I I something I saw when my wife had a kid is that beyond the logistical challenges of feeding a baby when you're breastfeeding. There's also a really deep and complex set. Of emotional and chemical and hormonal things going on that like, you think you kind of make this plan like I can handle the logistics pump at this time of do this. I'll freeze this do this. And then I'll have these days to go do something or whatever. But the the chemical stuff really gets in the way of of those plans because it is it's the most important thing in the world. We'll also the other things that you know, when she was first born, and she was. We've so so focused on feeding her correctly. And I was having a lot of trouble breastfeeding. And then I felt like all I was doing is focusing on feeding her and then I would see my husband got to hold her and play with her and like lift up her arms and read her books. And then when I wasn't feeding her I just wanted to take a shower white my feet, eat, slim, Jim or something, and it was like I had no time to really get to know her other than feeding her, and I was like all and it's like there's a term for it called grazing where the baby all they do eat with you. And they just associate you with food, and that's it. And so I was like one of my going to bond with her, you know, like actually like talk to her and stuff instead of just focusing on angling her head to get her to latch on the right angle and keep wiping her face with all the milk and getting frustrated from the feeding so yeah, I mean, it's just it's a lot of time. You know? And it's great. But I think for a lot of women, you know, whether they're stand ups are not just you take that break, and you're bonding with your child, and you're feeding your child, and then it's really hard to get pulled apart and imagine spending like a whole day without your baby. Because you just don't know what that's like. And it's it's scary. Like now, I just I just think about that part and Blackfish where they separate the mama whale from the baby whale. And I like I start crying because I'm like, that's it's. It really it's hormones, you know, that's hormone emotions. Yeah. So, but luckily, you know, we've gotten her to go down at eight PM, I've still been able to go out at night and do sets its bulls eye. Jesse thorn, my guest is the comedian alley Wong. Her latest special is called hard knock wife it's out now on net. Flicks. You know, your special despite the fact that you are super pregnant, you're not doing material about being super pregnant at all. Quick second joke when you walk on stage at you almost have to do something to acknowledge it. But that's it just one line joke, and then you're into your other material because it's the it's the first thing that I've ever put out that's my own and I've been doing stand up for like eleven years. So some of those jokes like the skater joke about how you know don't date skaters unless you wanna wake up on a mattress and a kitchen that joke is so old. I haven't. A skater in like nine years, you know? And so it's like. Sold and that joke about. You know, some useful advice from Asian and brothers and sisters never go paint. Balling with Vietnam veteran. That's like I wrote that one I was like in high school, and I went being balling and my friend's dad like went to town on me for I I don't know what reason, but I know that he served and it me out, and my parents were like that must be why? And so some of those jokes are so old and your parents the voices of experience. Yes, we know about being Americans sweetheart. And so like, you know, so that's specialist like. It's not just like one month of material that I built up. It's a carefully curated set of jokes from like ever since I started doing stand up, basically and being pregnant is very small part of all of that. I wanna play a clip from the special and one of the things that a lot of the material is about basically, how you got to where you are how you got from, you know, being whatever twenty three year old just graduated college. When you started doing stand up to being an adult, married. Mom. And so this is you early on in this special talking about why you pack your husband's lunch. I don't feed him out of the goodness of my heart. I do it as an investment in my financial future. I don't want to work anymore. Reading books by Cheryl Sandberg. She's the c o Facebook. And she wrote that book that got women all riled up about our careers talking about how we as women should challenge. Ourselves to sit at the table and rise to the top. And her book is called lean in. I don't want to lean. Okay. I'll wanna lie, Dan. This is the worst thing that ever happened to women. Our job used to be no job. We had is so good. We could have done the smart thing which would have been to continue playing for the next century. And be like what we do. So I guess we better just staying home all day. And he sacks watch Ellen. So ellie. As you're doing that joke. You are super pregnant and working, right? Telling that joke is you working? Yeah. And there's a lot of material around those themes, especially early in the special. Yeah. Tell me about where that material comes from and sort of what your perspective is on it. Well, I mean, so I obviously love stand up, and I have been doing it pretty much nonstop besides my honeymoon. And after I had a C section. Those are the two big breaks I took from stand-up, but other than that I've been performing pretty much every other night. It's very rare for me to go like three nights in a row without performing stand up. So I obviously love it very much. But there's all sorts of other stuff. I have to do besides stand up. Like, I, you know, a right and for TV show, and then I also sometimes do punch-up on movies, and it's like, it's exhausting like that stuff. I I like it. I don't love it and I'm exhausted. And like after you know, like I do that. And I'm tired, and I see these women who seemingly seemed to be just Chilin hanging out all day. The the hardest decision. They have to make every day. What do some I drink? What cheuse has the most compelling story, but vegetables, the most interesting origin tails, and they're just sitting at you know, like like at whole foods like inspecting, all these juices and read and I'm like, I'm so jealous that. This appears to me to be your life. And I'm sure it's not, you know, because now after being a mom and like staying home with her by myself for a very short period of time. I'm like, this is scary. I wanna go back to work. This is no picnic either. You know, but just the idea of like there are women. I believe out there who are just chilling. And what am I doing? I made all the wrong decisions. It's like you believe it's like you're telling me that you believe in Griffin or something. Fairly ghosts are real. Yeah. There are women who are chilling. I can see it in there. Feels like when you're talking about that. I mean, what it really feels like is what you're talking about is, you know, as badly as you might want that sometimes you are obviously so deeply committed to your work and your career, and and you know, expressing yourself being who you are. That's just self evident in what you're doing on stage that it feels like in some ways, you're you know, what you're really talking about is the fact that that actually isn't a real thing that exists. And in fact, that, you know, especially when you are, you know, when you're in a sexist society, you know, which fundamentally structurally wherein to some extent there is this contradiction, which is yes, you can have you can follow your dreams. But you also still. Have to do all of the other stuff that the generations before you went like men do a little more chores now. But you know, you look at the studies it's like men do men have gone from doing ten percent of the chores to twenty percent of the choice. And granted that's doubling. Yeah. Making up these numbers? But something like, you know, what I mean? Right. That really like what your work women have are expected to contribute. Like fifty percent, right. I'm like deep in the trenches of that right now with that whole expectation to breastfeed and to like keep the household. Nice. But then also to like to work, and to contribute just as much as the man if not more, and so, yeah, I think it's I think it's about that. But I mean, those those feelings that expressed are real being jealous of this this idea of not working anymore. It's really the financial responsibility. Like, there's high stakes if I don't work. I really don't like that. Yeah. That stinks. It's really scary thing. Like, it would be awesome. It's stand up was like totally a passionate hobby. I I would be pretty happy going out and doing sets every night for pizza. That'd be pretty happy about that. You know? But you yeah. I mean, I I gotta do other stuff because I like I can't just do that. You know, we'll finish up with Allie long after break. Don't go anywhere. It's bullseye for maximum, fun dot org and NPR. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Sierra Nevada brewing company in nineteen eighty with a few thousand dollars and used dairy equipment, Ken Grossman. Founded Sierra Nevada brewing company award winning ales, propelled him from home brewer to craft today. Ken and his family still own one hundred percent of the company one of the most successful independent craft breweries in America, more at Sierra, Nevada dot com. This holiday season, we're flooding. The max funds store with our biggest ever new product launch seventeen brand new items from some of your favorite shows. I bet you know, someone who needs a new shirt or mug maybe a hoodie cozy up in a pair of max von logo socks or keep the sun out of your eyes with a rocket dad hat. There is literally no better holiday gift for the max fun fan in your life. Then some new year and hang pick yourself up a little something to you deserve it. Check it all out at max fun store dot com. That's max fund store dot com. Hey, gang. It's Jesse again. Just reminder this week forgiving Tuesday. You've got a chance to help keep shows like bullseye on the air going strong into the new year by supporting your local station. Just go to donate dot NPR dot org slash bullseye. Welcome back to bulls eye. Jesse thorn, we're playing a couple of favorites from the bullseye archives? Sweet right now, my twenty sixteen conversation with Alli Wong. She's an actor writer a stand up comic her newest special hard. Knock wife is available to stream now Allie. Let's play a clip from your special baby Cobra, and my guess is the comedian alley Wong where you're talking about your mom, your mom. So a lot older you have three siblings. But the youngest of them is ten years older than you accident. So my mom had me when she was like forty five. And and this is this is you talking about trying to declutter your mom's house. The last time. I was at home in San Francisco, I was trying to help her get rid of don't ever do that with your mom. The worst experience of my life was so emotional we were screaming and fighting and yelling, and it all came. To a climax when she refused to let go of Texas Instruments TI, eighty two manual. The manuel. She don't even know where the calculator. It's those of you under twenty five probably don't know what that calculator is. It was this calculator. Bam booze. My generation we were all required to buy it. When we were in eighth grade it costs like two hundred dollars. And everybody thought it was like this Studi Jetsons laptop from the future all because what could grass. You really left out some key features of TI, eighty two calculator. Yeah. You could type end stuff you could save the answers in it. That's number one. You put your answers into the TI eighty two. I mean, not the answers necessarily unless you had actually took ever. And there was no auto correct or anything could play video games on it though. You could play video games like terrible, text vase video games. Terrible rug wars, you could play you had to give it to your nervous trend. Yeah. They were the only one who knew how to get the games inside of it. But the two main things you could do was hide the formulas like the quad Radka question. If you want to memorize it, you could hide that in your graphing calculator. And then the other thing was not that I would ever do such a thing and children who are listening should not do that. They should do study hard and don't do drugs, but you could tie the answers in there. And then you could play drug wars and centipede on it. But to do all of that was so laborious you need the manual. You need one. Who would take like an hour to enter a quadrant formula? Like much effort to cheat with that calculator. I mean, it was like, and that's fight is real like, my mom. And I like, I remember I think I know I was crying. I'm not sure if she was crying. But there was yelling. And we were like tug a war like yanking that book between us because I was like mom like I just want you to be able to let go of this, you know, like mentally. But she, you know, it's funny because a lot of people seem to resonate with that, especially like immigrant kids because their parents came with nothing, and you would think that because they can with nothing they're like, I don't need nothing. But really they're like I to keep everything because I can. Now, and that whole idea of like, I never know when I might need it 'cause they don't want to buy it again 'cause the cheap. They're scared. They're scared. Yeah. But you know, it's just like a big generational discrepancy. Because now, I'm of the, you know, the generation where it's all about like decluttering, and we have too much. And so, and there's a lot of tension between me, and my mom because of that the other thing that you're special is about I think is having this idea in your head that you have to trick someone into liking you and maybe supporting you, and then falling in love, actually, and like realizing that as as much as you might plan to these tricks, right? These ideas, these schemes as much you might come up with schemes while you're sitting around the house, maybe actually you love your husband. And he loves you and other parts may be also don't even aren't even gonna work out. Right. Yeah. I mean that is basically what happened. I mean, even with my husband. I was like totally initially attracted to all of this superficial stuff. Like, he was you know, the first things I learned about him was that you graduated from Harvard, and he's really looking and then like the reality is when we first went out on our first date. She didn't even pay. He actually borrowed money from me. And. I was like what what is up with this, dude? And he was a Hebrew money from you above and beyond the Bill like see like could you pay for the pizza, and can you hit me with twenty bucks? Let me hold twenty bucks broke. He was just like he was like, I it was cash only. And he was like, oh, I don't have cats, and I was like oh my God. You gotta be kidding. And he chose the place to and it was a horrible place. It was your own fault for dating guy that handsome. Yes. Totally. And then it was like he was a vegan. And at the time. I was like a super carnivore. But then I just kept on going out with him. It's like, I really did just you know, all that other stuff that I cared about fell to the wayside. And yeah, I fell in love with the guy and he's great. I wanna ask you about something that you talk about in the special that you don't hear a lot of people talk about much less to jokes about which is that you had a miscarriage. Yeah. How did you decide whether or not to talk about that publicly and whether or not to talk about that on stage. Well, I think I wouldn't have talked about it publicly if I hadn't have told so many people that I was pregnant, right? When I got pregnant I was so excited that I was pregnant, and I couldn't have imagined anything going wrong. But I told everybody like as soon as it got positive. I told anybody, and then when I had the miscarriage I tell everybody the bad news, which actually turned out to be a good thing. Because you know, when I when I told everybody the bad news, all these women came to me and told me they confess that they too had had a myth. Carriage and. I didn't know how common it was the fact that so many other women have had a miscarriage and told me it did make me feel a lot better because I felt less alone. I felt like I wasn't this infertile free for and it wasn't my fault for having one because it is so dark, and it is so personal because it happens in your body and. You know, a lot of there was a lot of humor in it. I mean after that I found and that I ended up, you know, sharing on stage that other people could seem to find funny too. So at thought, you know, why not put it in there, it it was the one joke that didn't always a hundred percent of the time when I traveled with it work super-duper. Well, but I did I did feel really passionate about including it because. Because I thought it was funny. And also because I thought it was important for other women to know that I had one and that getting pregnant it's not always this like easy journey especially when you're in your mid thirties. And that if they're having like a rocky time to that, they're not alone. I went to my wife, and I went to the doctor we have two kids and had two miscarriages and the most recent one we went to the doctor, and she confirmed that it was a miscarriage and everything and she's super nice. It was not our regular doctor which was a bummer, but she's super nice and. One of the things she said to us was look you've had four pregnancies and two kids and that is a hundred percent in the normal range. And -absolutely nothing to be worried about right? Like to have, you know? I can't remember what exactly the number was twenty to forty percent or something like that. Yeah. Of of pregnancies are miscarried, and it's just part of the way that your body. Make sure that the pregnancy is working, but at the same time, you're still both going through especially for the mother, you're going through a real difficult physical process, and you know, and I think both parents are dealing with the fact that you are, you know, you have a lot of emotional investment in. In making a baby rate and to have a change direction so sharply. Yeah, it's really hard to adjust. And just also I mean, I was told by that by my OB to that it was very common. And it's one thing to be told that it's very common and to be told the statistic it's another thing to put like a face that you know, to the category that you are now a part of. And like even now you telling me like I feel like a bond, and I feel also like so much compassion. And I also feel still like less alone. Just by you telling me now that you guys have had to. But that also you have two kids, and it gives me like it makes me feel better. And it gives me hope to and I mean, even now with like every like every time I want to have more kids I have one now, and I wanna have like at least two more. It's what's the ceiling on this ten? Yeah. Thing is maybe like five they're cheaper. By the dozen as I understand it. Well, I would I would love to have like a dozen. Yeah. But like with every pregnancy. Now, I'm gonna be that worry that like is this going to take, you know, and they're still also going to be that envy, which I think is natural of other women who have never had a miscarriage who have it. So seemingly easy. And that that's all normal. You know? And that it's okay to feel envy that it's okay to feel scared and to not feel like attached when you find out that you're pregnant, I mean, all those things, and I wish women would talk about it more. So that it would it would even though is that it would would it would feel more normal. I found comfort the second time around in. In the idea that it's the, you know, it's the body protecting itself and protecting you and protecting the pregnancy that it is saying this one's not gonna work. I better take care of this. We'll try again, right? I mean, there's it's I take so much comfort in that too. But then you get people saying to you. Did you Dr till you maybe why you out the miscarriage? Or is there anything you could have done? So that it would have stayed and I went to an acupuncturist shortly after and I told him that I had a miscarriage, and it was a I went to the Santa Monica school of acupuncture, which was my mistake. And it was like, that's when you know, they have like, you know, what you really want. When you go to get acupuncture is a caricature of Chinese man kidding. You acupuncture. But really, I got this like, you know, I think she was white and she was like twenty one years old and was just trying to figure out do peace corps. Or should I do acupuncture and decide to go with acupuncture and told me that she had all these hippy philosophies about how I should go out and close my eyes and spend time in the sun. So that next time when I get pregnant the baby will wanna stay, and it was like, are you kidding, dude? Like the worst bedside manner in the world. But in that she was like placing. Blame on me. And I think some people when they ask you what was the cause of the miscarriage in that question. They don't know it, but that they are sort of placing some blame on the woman. And and it's it's really intense. So, you know, like, I said just knowing that so many other women have it helped that I know have had it helped me understand that it was not my fault. This expectation that somebody that the reply to that question is going to be like, well, I can't I can't put my finger on it. I was driving cross country on my hog. Yeah. And I was getting all these bar fights, right? Totally like well. It's oh, I think it was this piece of sushi that I ate on December fifth. I think it was because I sniffed whiskey. I think it's because you know, I went running. It's like, no, none of it is your fault. You know? I so appreciate you taking the time to be on bullseye. So fun to get shocked to talk to you to always great to see you. Allie Wong, folks. If you haven't heard any of her stand up, please go check her out baby. Cobra and hard knock wife are both from this. She's also a regular on the ABC sitcom American housewife. Every week on the show, we close with a recommendation from yours, truly it's the outshot. How do you make music that's simultaneously, peaceful and churning how can you make something per cuss it without percussion? How do you vote longing and passion without changing the tone of your vocal more than I don't know a quarter of a step? Frankly, I don't know I can hear it. But I can't even describe it or understand. There is one man though, who can answer all those questions Jau Gilbert. Oh. Nine nineteen fifty seven miles. Davis was midwife to the birth of early nineteen sixties bear. Perfect. Somebody yet there. Have you ever seen an artist in works by subtraction? Somebody who can remove every unnecessary element. Maybe even imply a few necessary once and seek just a couple of lines Oklahoma world. Joe gilbert. Took samba thick for pulses dance music driven by a complex African drumming. And then he basically took out the drums you'll not sequel. Samba? Comey said body that shows you. Everywhere where there was hot. He made it cool. But somehow he didn't lose. Who called bossa Nova the new faith? Every listening to a lot of Gilbert. Oh, self titled album from nineteen sixty it's often just show in his guitar sometimes with an assist from the soft ticking of jazz cater gentle sound shaker. The rhythm doesn't come from a long line of congas Bongos and clubs comes from. A moment's hesitation on a bench inflection. It's exceptionally very quiet. Somebody done outshot. Total. Don't don't go. That's all for this week's bullseye bullseye recorded at maximum, fun dot org world headquarters. Overlooking MacArthur park and beautiful Los Angeles, California where just yesterday myself very excited that I was the one who spotted this saw a guy pushing a stroller using his skateboard that is to say he was skateboarding with a stroller in front of him. Shockingly fluidly. The show is produced by speaking into microphones, our producers. Kevin ferguson. He had help from Casey O'Brien production fellows at maximum dot org. Are shoes Broszio and Chena delory a- or interstitial music was provided to buy DJ w aka Dan, Wally got to see Dan the other day at a birthday party, still more handsome than any behind the scenes musician should be our thanks to Dan as ever or theme song is by the go team. Thanks to them and their label. Memphis industries for providing it to us. If you liked here any of our past shows, hundreds are available at our website maximum, fun dot org. We're talking about now coming up on. Between fifteen and twenty years worth of too many, probably we're also on Facebook on Twitter and on YouTube just search for bullseye with Jesse thorn and hit like or follow or whatever is the appropriate verb. And I guess that's about it. Just for all great radio hosts have a signature sign off. Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fun dot org in his distributed by NPR. Support for NPR and the following message. Come from the NPR wine club where NPR's shows become exclusive wines, like wait. Wait, don't tell me merlot and every bottle is ready for holiday entertaining. If you're twenty one or older, go to NPR wine club dot org slash listen.
"Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fun dot org and is distributed by NPR. Uh Jesse Thorn. It's Bullseye. The stereotype goes usually that there are character actors and stars. A character actor can show a couple of scenes maybe only for five minutes and even in that small moment that could make a film. I guess Tony Shillue can do that. Well a star of course you build a whole movie or TV show around there relatable charming former but my guess Tony Shalhoub can do VAT to. He's a veteran of both the big and small screens. He's had unforgettable parts in movies. Like Barton Fink men in black quick change. He starred in movies like big night. TV shows like wings and of course the hit detective series series monk. These days irregular on the Amazon. Show the Marvelous Mrs Mazel. It's a drama set in the late. Nineteen Fifties Rachel. Brosnahan plays the title character commits Mazel when the series starts out Midge is a housewife living in Manhattan. who puts her old life behind her to take up? Stand up comedy she leaves her husband. Takes Sir kids and moves back in with their parents and in fits and starts her stand up. Career takes off my guest. Tony Shillue Plays Abe Weisman Midges Dad Roll. That's Gotten Tony. A handful of awards including an emmy last year the Marvelous Mrs May as well just dropped. Its third season this past month but when Tony and I talked last year. The show's second season had just launched in it. Midge is still living with her family. Her mother rose has moved out of the apartment. She fled to Paris and I. It hasn't really sunk in for Abe after all rose has a big party coming back home but in this scene. We're about to hear it. Finally actually dawns on him. Papa are you kidding me. Mama moved to Paris. What that's ridiculous? You hear what you just said what you just told me the Mama told you she was moving into parent. I've never said that I don't feel like I have a life. Pure everyone in everything that I have ever counted on has let me down and you said okay. No I should. Lamb was okay and it was could brief honestly couple. You don't listen not true. You don't listen to anyone not true. I don't feel like I have a lifestyle repeating that all right. I'll sometimes I two people but mostly because they rarely have anything useful or interesting to say what her closets empty drawers anti not. Her perfume was gone. Wishes things and guessing Paris but was she going to wear to the party tonight. You notice this you sleep right there. Who Live here to you? Didn't notice either. Her husband closet way more than I. Am Tony Shalhoub welcome to Bullseye. It's great to have have you on the show. Thank you nice to be. I saw you wince at your character saying he doesn't listen to other people mostly because they don't have anything interesting to you. Say that sounds a little arrogant. I suppose I mean one of the funny things about your character on this show. Is I think the show is not about your character. Your characters a secondary character show show right and in a lot of shows like this especially funny ones which shows very funny it would be fine to let the protagonist have the journey right like the protagonist gets to go on a journey. Everybody else has a funny thing about them that the audience recognizes then we support that protagonists this arc. I suppose you're characterize changed a lot in two seasons of the show. Yeah it's a very it's rare for for series for a character in series television really Because as you say normally you're you know you get hired and then you're kind of if you're somewhat limited to what you're being called on to do and we'll what purpose serve in for actors. That can be frustrating. strating at times. Because you you're the guy that does this or you're the sort of stupid guy. You're you're the whatever it is and you get kind of you've confined or constrained into playing two colors three. You're very lucky and I've been fortunate in in this case to you that you know they're they're just My character happens to be in a inflation elation life where he's in he's in transition like the and I think it's because of the transition that midges in that you know that my daughter is going through all her changes are impacting. All of the people around her. You were not just not just stuck in our in our little mode. I was watching the first episode of the second season Earlier today and where you and your daughter travelled to Paris and and you're wearing an overcoat a brown overcoat with a blue check that If they had just showed me that overcoat I'd be like yeah. Okay oh how many years is the contract for like. Yes I get to wear that overcoat. Yes salt yeah that and that that speaks to this whole idea that that You know this I like I love this idea that we're you know we're in the late fifties. I just. It's I guess the forties and the fifties have always been really good your those good decades for me in in terms of playing characters and especially today because I think we all need as viewers and as certainly factors respite from present day craziness and what this the other thing that this affords us as the saw their cell phones in this show their computers. `puter I mean. The computers are the size of this room. You know there's no We're low tech. We're super low tech and I just find that so refreshing you were the star of monk for many seasons. This won't be news to you. I sat as my sounds familiar million which was a detective procedural on USA a comic Detective Procedural in which your character character was the brilliant genius detective who in part his genius detecting was colored by his obsessive compulsive. NECE and I really think it is one of the best of this kind of show that has ever been made. It is so hard to make a show like this. That is pleasant to so many people that also is sharpen specific and so on and so forth. You know what I mean like. It's sort of defined what the USA network even to some extent still is today. But but like it's about an incredible specificity and especially in your performance. Thank you and I wonder what it was when it came to you and how how it came to you To pilot had been it was first at ABC for number of years. and was kind of languishing anguishing. They're the you know the with a lot of these things you know you. It all has to kind of fit together. You have to have the right person and the right the right time and You know Script was just was just not getting any traction and then I think an executive was departing ABC and going Over to USA and asked to take this property and see if they could develop it and that was fine and then and then I believe it was at ABC. I mean I'm sorry I believe it was at USA for a year before it came to me you know. A number of people had they had approached a number of different actors at both networks and some actress had approach them and it just it just never would I even Michael Richards. I heard was circling it for while they were circling in and I you know I just. It was just fortunate. My manager at the time was reading the A pilot for Another client of hers it was she was actually reading it for The character of Sharon this assistant and then why she was reading reading it she thought of me and so sent it to me in I had never heard of it. I didn't know anything about it. And then I met with the network and the writers and We were off to the races and we had to. You know I was the first one attached so they asked me I. I mentioned that I would like to be involved as a producer too so I can have some input voice and so they asked me to read with people audition. We're addition people for Sharon stottlemyre and all the other regulars in which I was happy to to do and that's how we put it all together. What did you think about when you first saw it? Well when I first read it. I didn't really respond to it because I didn't. I thought it was good but I didn't see my way into it and I call call my manager and I said that I said look I I I get what you're I don't get how how's this me and she she's very subtle and she said you better read it and he should read it again because this is more you than you probably want to admit and so I did and I read it a second in time and It had started to become clear. And how in the the the script that I read the pilot Hulett script and I remember. This is a long time ago but the script that I read was It wasn't really the pilot that we wasn't exactly the pilot we shot it was written more It was brought her. It was written. I think it originally was conceived morals like almost like inspector clue also thing except with those e d it was broader comedy you know and That was the part that I felt was was was not a good fit for me and Y spoke to my manager about this and then she said well you should sit. Just sit down. You can sit down with the writers expressed this and you know. Tell them what it is about it that it works for you and how you would like to have them change it and maybe they will and and that's exactly what I did and they were fantastic. They were open and And I said Look I. I love comedy but I think we should. You know maybe toned down the really really broad stuff and let the comedy come out of the guys pain and out of the guys problem in D- But also you have to remember. We're talking about a time time when we did. This is right after nine. Eleven not not long after nine. Eleven so culturally. I think we entered a new level. we were entering an age of anxiety of higher anxiety. which this character I? Don't I mean you know certainly the show the script and the and the idea was conceived before nine eleven as I said it late around for years but came came time to actually actually put it on do it and put it on the air. People were feeling they. We're we're all in a bit of a state of a uh-huh what now and you know how. How fragile is it all and so we enter we kind of enter the the the mindset of this character how? He's been living his entire life really until he met his wife and got better and then she died and then he got worse so but then we were entering also at the same time we were. We knew that we were on a slippery slope because we're dealing with OCD which is very real and tragic kind of debilitating disorder. And so you don't want to send that up too much. You an honor the people who have of it so we had to we just kind of like holding our breath that it was going to be received by that by those people. Are you know that community In the right way and Do do it in a way that we want. What we we were trying to do really was to de stigmatize the disorder and Because the character had so many good qualities and was so talented in so many ways ace and could make all these gigantic contributions to society You know but but maybe just getting out the door taking fifteen minutes was would be funny. You know but we did we. I think the writers did a really good job and else the whole creative team because you know in capturing the tone We found that sweet spot and we got a lot of Harry positive feedback from people who suffered from the disorder disorder of people who had family members or even doctors. I get letters from psychiatrists and psychologists and people say you know. Have Referenced Your Your Show in our book in my book that I'm writing about mental illness. Oh my God it was. It went way beyond what we intended it. Yeah I mean I think that the challenge the fact that the challenge that the character faces what leads to the resolution and met the the challenge challenging the pain inherent in the challenge is real makes the hopefulness of it you know which is fundamental to this kind of TV. He is that like part of what you're offering is that the problem will be resolved so it's comforting in that way and so the fact that you know that you will get that comfort but that you will get it from something that actually feels like it might mirror pain that you might have or fear that you might have exactly why because we all I think we all do. Many many people do to a degree. You know we have these kinds of Obsessive compulsive tendencies But but or we just get fixated on things or we but many of us have ways of dealing with and coping with it and filtering it. So that it's not as obvious to the rest of the world and we don't voice or demonstrate. These kinds of things were monk. Doesn't have that filter he just says it and does it feels it and demonstrates it. Let's let's hear a scene from monk and my guest Tony Shalhoub so in this episode is from the seventh season of the show Monks Personal Assistant. Natalie helps a thief steal. The bicycle accidentally helps a thief steal the bicycle of a biotech. CEO and so in this clip. Monk and Natalie are getting a tour of the biotech company from one of the lab. Who's played by a pass? This show brilliant actress Pamela. Adlon Oh lover Dean. Dean Berry founded Beta data vegetarian five years ago. So what exactly do you do. We're saving the world okay for you. I was getting a little worried about the World Square. Is that a square tomato. Yes it is. It's a pet project of deans. square-shaped means that farmers can pack thirty five percent or tomatoes per carton. It's cheaper burn more efficient so that means every slice is exactly the same size. Has It tastes who cares. It's a square tomato. You're doing a little work. Literally Mr Barry. I just wanted to see sorry without the vice. We're testing new corn seed. They're genetically engineered to sprout in twenty minutes or less what you're seeing is going to revolutionize the agriculture industry as you know what the square tomato. I'd forgotten that I love. I've forgotten the square great tomato. That was IT IS A. It's a great line when he says I've been feeling a little worried about the world. They're even more from the great. Tony Shalhoub when we come back from a quick break still to come. He'll tell me where and why it gets the drive to make art. It's Bullseye for maximum dot org an NPR. The world is complicated but knowing the past can help us understand it so much better. That's where where we come in. I'm Rhonda on Romping at Bluey and we're the host of through line. NPR's history podcast every week. We'll dig into forgotten stories from the moments what's that shaped our world through line from NPR. Listen and subscribe now. Two decades under and data sacrificed his wife. The greatest discovery is also about star. Trek Picard Jesse. Thorn won't let us stay on the network unless we do all the Star Trek series and so here we are doing a show about maybe our favorite star trek character of all time. If you're excited to watch the new star Trek Picard series. He's and you'd like some Veterans Star Trek podcasters to watch it along with. We're you guys. Sorry you're stuck with US hell. Are you doing out. Here Picard. Uh Saving the galaxy so subscribed to the greatest discovery can find it anywhere you find podcasts. At Maximum Fund Dot Org. Welcome back to Bullseye. Jesse Thorn. My guest is actor Tony Shalhoub. He is of course an incredibly talented actor. He's been in films like big night. The man who wasn't there spy kids just to name a handful. He's currently in the cast of the marvelous. Mrs Mazel you can stream. That chose third season now on Amazon. He and I talked last year. I WANNA play a clip from a movie that you were in. It was a much earlier in your career that I know this is I love. This is one of my favorite movies. it's a movie called Quick Change from Nineteen Ninety and It's a it's a really. It's a really wonderful movie all told I think maybe one of but if not bill Murray's best made me rushmore but eh besides rushmore. Bill Maher is best movie that he ever did. Any Co directed it and a really great movie. You play a character in this movie. That could have been so awful. You played You're Lebanese American and your character is basically ethnic cabdriver speaks excess in nonsense words. They didn't want it to be an identifiable ethnicity. So yeah it's it's very surreal. I mean like partly the tone of the film saves it from being the awful thing that could have been but I think largely it saved from the awful thing it could have been by a really wonderful performance by you both really funny and like human inhumane in a way that it didn't necessarily have to be for cabdriver character in comedy in Nineteen Ninety When goes characters often were just You know broad ethnic jokes. Yeah typical cool. Yeah yeah so I I WANNA play a clip from. I don't know how this plays in audio because you're mostly Mostly House yeah. Yeah shameless faces. I make so bill. Murray is a bank robber. He dresses as a clown. Robs is a bank with Gina Davis Gina Davis and his best friend Randy Quaid And then they all get into a taxi cab and they're we're having a hard time telling what they're trying to get away. They're they're having a hard time telling what you're sitting there trying to get to the airport east. Got It great. And what did you take a straight to sing sing. Please don't say that you'RE GONNA upset. Stole did hurdles and Dollars to you. Read from now in Cabot Randy Quaid freaks out so much but I think he jumps out the passenger door you. This was probably a party in your part of your career. Where if you get a multiple scene part art movie 'cause my first movie really you're not in a position to question it but did you think about it at the time lake? How many movies have a you? You know a broad. Broadly unidentifiable Middle Eastern guy who yells things as a taxi driver it now I didn't I was so I I I loved the script and I really think it is a great movie. An underrated movie. I think it's like a legit great movie. I think even leaving aside its rating rating which I think is under yeah. I think it's a great movie. It's it's very very clever movie The premise itself is is brilliant. It's you know it's it reflects New York City in the eighties Very beautifully and In a really genuinely funny way and No I love the idea. No I love the idea that when I read the script when it came to my part there were no lines. It just said the CABBIE speaks and we don't understand and so when I had to addition for it so I went in and met the casting in bills their Bill Murray was there into I had to you know basically gibberish language but instead of just mumbling Baba I hi actually rode. I rode out my lines. I just made up of gibberish language so that I could so so that I would have repeated. Words repeated sounds for you know what I was supposed to be talking about. Tolkien this thing. Yeah I just I just the only way I'm GonNa do it and not just look like I'm blathering mumbling. Because the Cabbie knows what he's saying the cabinets guy I mean It was my first and it was. I gotTa tell you this too. It's my first movie. I think think for things doing mostly theater. But I'd auditioned for a lot of things and it's the first and maybe the only time where where I was offered was offered the job in the room that never happens. You know take take thank you very much you go away you wait a few days your agent calls you the value of Kovac a yoga. You have the offer they want to give you the part. That's how it goes participants. You know I did actually have a callback for this. Maybe two and Put cut finally on the whatever the final call that was bill. Murray says you WANNA do this because we're good. Let's do it and We had a blast shot at all. The most of it was night shoots in Queens and I got to work with Jason Robards. Who was a god to me inspiration when I was younger and a lot of people in the Stanley to cheese in this movie? A lot of great people in this movie and But it was at. I made up my own language. Do your worst movie thousand clowns Jason Robarts only about fifty times. It's the reason I became an actor and that was that was that was that was at a time when I was high school. When you know you couldn't we didn't have have you know VHS? There wasn't any of that when you saw a movie you waited a year and it was on. TV waited another year for it to come around on TV again. Maybe and I was devoted to that film and I it was it was. It was a really moved the needle for me. Now when and you saved thousand clowns made you want to become an actor. I need to movie about. Jason Robards. Plays a moderately unsuccessful. Comedy Mighty writer who needs to get a job because he's responsible for taking care of his teenage son. Nephew two sisters yeah Sister left yeah and so he is basically facing this choice in his life. which is he has the opportunity to get the job on something that does not meet his artistic standards which you know are difficult to pin down? Maybe because he's a comedy Eddie Guy and he is struggling to accept the responsibilities of adulthood. It's he knows is that he has to and he knows how important is because there's this kid and he's falling in love as well and it is very very painful for him and difficult for him to be frank with himself about that and do what he has to do and I know a ton of comedy how many people who loved this movie I've had many conversation with longtime Conan. Now Colbert late show writer. Brian Stack about it for example. The real funny guy and I think for a lot of comedy ball is a deeply difficult film to watch because has it asks them to confront their own complicity in the kind of irresponsibility of creating art especially completely frivolous list art with their life. So you saying that you make you wage want to become an artist it's a movie about the horrors and pains that come from the self centeredness of wanting to be exactly. Yeah that's how sick I am. Ah where did you where did you first see it. Did you first see it on TV. Yeah I I grew up in Green Bay Wisconsin. Has I think it was in high school when I first saw it and I just remember being so struck by it in those performances and and just the whole message behind it the whole idea about it behind. You don't in a sense you know that that's always always. That's always a dilemma of the creative person. I think it's It's it's what big night was about. And you know that sort of balancing act that you have to that you have to deal with between art and commerce. It's that's One can rarely exist without the other and It's a it's a ongoing challenge. I mean not even just art and commerce but also the the solipsism and and self regard that's required to think. Oh I could make things and that could be my whole life. You now the amount that you have to dedicate yourself to being artists to be an artist you know and the kind of presumptive of that and the tension that that creates with your responsibilities to others to your community to and that's I think why I whenever I watch Komo clouds. I cry like forever but I think it's it's it's even beyond that because what you're talking about is it implies a A choice a decision kind of an intellectual decision and in for my my experience you know the reality is this is that that's certainly that's there. But you know the part part of the thing about creativity and the pursuit of Art Is You know. There's a compulsion there too. You know people can't help it. They have to do it. They I mean real the the really great people the good people Maybe not so good people who just have to compulsion. I'm not sure but there's a thing where it's it's it's less of a less of intellectual decision is just. I need to do something I I need to create this. I need to do it. And and that's their you're screwed because then you then you can't stop whenever you do. Stop then you're just setting yourself up for life of other different kinds of torture. Well Tony we're out of time. I didn't even add nine brothers and sisters. I didn't even mention it this whole time. I've just gotten started normally. That would have been the whole hour. I'm very grateful to you for taking all this time to be on Bullseye Thank you so much for coming by thank you Tony Shalhoub from last year all three seasons of the Marvelous Mrs Mazel are streaming on Amazon prime. Right now this probably goes without saying but pretty much. All of the movies we talked about in. This interview are great Quick Change Classic a thousand clowns better than classic big night exceptional. Watch them the mall if you haven't seen them already. That's the end of another episode of Bulls Eye Bulls is produced maximum fund dot Org World Headquarters Overlooking MacArthur Arthur Park in beautiful Los Angeles California where the birds have discovered the barge the raft. The kind of floats around the lake. I think it was once a vote landing. Anyway they've covered it in what birds cover things in the show is. Produced by speaking into microphones producer. Is Kevin Ferguson Bergerson. Hey Soussan Barosio is our associate producer. We get help from Casey O'Brien and his giant electric piano our production fellows Jordan cowling and Melissa. I said Dwayne yes are interstitial. Music is by Dan. Wally also known as Dj w our theme song is by the go team thanks to them and their label Memphis Industries for letting US use set and one last thing we have done many interviews in our shows nearly two decades starting with the time that my friend Jordan went to Dick Tale Dot net on the web and called the King of the Surf Guitar at his trailer in the desert. All of those interviews are available on our website at maximum fund. Dot Org if you're a big fan of the Marvelous Mrs Mazel we talked with Amy Sherman. Palladino the show's creator. We're on facebook twitter and Youtube. Just search for Bullseye. With Jesse Thorn you can keep up with the show there and I think that's about it just remember. 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Karyn Kusama, Director of "Destroyer"
"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Mozilla, they have another podcast you might enjoy IRL by Mozilla. What happens on the internet used to stay on the internet? But these days online life is real life. Learn what this means for your life on IRA L by Mozilla available wherever you get your podcasts. Bullseye with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR. I'm Jesse thorn. This is bullseye. Karn? Kasama just directed. This is called destroyer. We'll talk a little bit more about the movement, particularly in just a minute. But Carne is a really unique voice in film. Her debut was the critically acclaimed drama girlfriend movie about a female boxer Kusaba based on her own time. Then she established herself as an Archer of John ruffians in two thousand five she directed the science fiction, film, EON flux, the horror movies, the invitation and Jennifer's bodies in after that. And now there is destroyer a dark and complex crime drama told largely in flashback it stars Nicole Kidman, replace Aaron bell LAPD detector as young cop fell was placed undercover with gang in the California desert. Things didn't end well McKay. She was on. He's never put to rest. When the leader of that gang reemerges over a decade later bell reopened the case Kidman's character is haunted by her memory of the past. It's a strain on her relationship with her daughter Shelby who has started acting out. She drinks she skipped school. She has a think in this clip Aaron is sitting in a Chinese restaurant with her daughter things get very heavy. I'm not I'm the one who's bad. It's not yet. All right. Sorry fell lying to you. I lied stall. Wash. Can be better than me. Karn? Kasama? Welcome to tebow's. I it's great having on the show. Thank you. It's so nice to be here that scene, actually. Looked like it was shot. I might be wrong. But it looked like it was shot like just up the street, two blocks. Bamboo in which is like restaurant here in West Lake in Los Angeles in our neighborhood that literally still has a sign outside the chop suey. Yep. Like a pure nineteen sixty experience completely unexpurgated. Yeah. It's an incredible. And that space is incredible. It hasn't been changed or updated and actually is more more beautiful and more moody and incredible for it. What were the things about Los Angeles that you wanted to capture both aesthetically and the medically. I, you know, I think people who don't live here assume that sunshine has a kind of joyous almost shallow quality. And for me when I walk outside every day. It's just almost a kind of dread every sunny day. I feel I mean, I feel a kind of relentlessness to the sunshine that feels punishing damaging scarring somehow apocalyptic, and I wanted to express that in a film, and in this case, it was the Mattingly tied into the idea of a character whose greatest adversaries herself and who leased wants to look closely at herself and yet feels exposed at every second. And how better to depict that then see her constantly sort of squinting into the sun? I mean, there's this quality. I, and I think to me it has something to do with the arid -ness of Los Angeles. Well, that while the heat is rarely extraordinary like it's it's often in the summer, and the, you know, the low nineties, but it's not the hottest place in the world. This isn't Phoenix Arizona, but there's something about that quality of relentlessness of and the sort of hot dryness that as you said kind of beats you. And that's that kind of physical toll of time and environment is almost a theme in the movie. Oh, yeah. And I think I want to say kind of physical and spiritual degradation. That is a theme in the film that that comes from a deprived Reese. Source center. That's both self generated in that. She she doesn't take care of herself. But then it's like she's in a place that you can feel the lack of water you can feel the lack of moisture you can feel that hot dry beating sun. And that's something to me that makes me think about you know, lizards, and and snakes and creatures that manage to become hardy in the most deprived environments, and yet we're afraid of them for and perhaps sometimes for good reason. And that's a bit of a mirror. I think to the main character of the film. There are a lot of movies about morally ambiguous protagonist, especially police officers who are wrong in some way. And they're out for Justice in they're trying to find. However, they can. And some of those movies are really good. I don't know. I really like John wick to where I think at the beginning. They kidnap is dog. And then the rest of it is just aesthetically stylized violence for ninety minutes. And then eventually gets his dog. Very high body count. Yeah. Exactly. But it's very beautiful way through all that. But it seems like you wanted to complicate that. And some of the biggest box office hits of the past ten or fifteen years, especially in the action movies revenge movies. There's this whole genre of dad's getting their daughters. Kitting asher. It seems like you wanted to complicate that. And and you didn't just want to complicate that by replacing a man with a woman that there was more that you wanted to complicate. Yeah. And I didn't want to replace a man with a woman. I I wanted a woman to stand kind of on her own within the role. I wanted us to question why we assume this is male space at all not just the notion of vengeance. But the idea of moral ambiguity, you know, when women aren't allowed to be morally ambiguous or even monstrous, it's a disservice to all of humanity in my opinion. Because we need we need to understand our own capacity for light and dark, and and if and if we keep making some assumption that women's capacity for darkness doesn't exist than than that sort of an assumption that just contributes to our own complicity in our dehumanisation, do, you know? And so for me, I am a couple of things I'm I'm I was about to say the words literally advancing age, which makes it sound. Like, I'm you know, like marching to my grave. I'm not bad move. But what I really mean is just that like I've made some films. I've lived some life. And now I can't look at those vengeance films and answer to the eleven year old son that I'm raising with any dignity. I have to find a different way forward because I know that vengeance is emotionally satisfying. But kind of the way angel food cake is, you know, it's it's there, and then it's not there. There's no there there. And so for me, I felt like I needed to give the audience a sense of being grounded in a story that they might already know and peel back those layers to either encourage them to ask the question do they know these stories why do we think why do we have the expectations? We do with them. And what more could we see from them? And in fact, how can we expand the conversation? So having a woman. Occupying the central role was just as much function of the movie having to be a character study as anything else. But it also felt like the only reason for being in terms of making the movie was that she be this interesting woman, simply because of what you say we've we've seen we've seen men occupied this story at sometimes in some ways satisfying -ly, but in many respects unsatisfying Lee as far as I'm concerned. So I just felt like why not take a crack at something. I feel I know a little bit better, which is really dark complicated women about Johnny movies. I second made a lot of John movies. This is, you know, in in some ways, it's a subversion of a particular John it certainly exists within genre. And there are some like real bad ass parts. You know, there's a there's a big Bank heist in the middle with a lot of crazy exciting shooting and crazy masks that kind of thing what are the benefits of that John Robb for storytelling? Like, why why make this movie with a bunch of you know, intermittent? Brutal violent. Rather than simply make it as as, you know, like a woman who's in a and has to go from person to person making a man, I mean, and look, you know, what that movie sounds really interesting to me too. I guess it's just there's something about the movies. That are lodged in my imagination and lodged in my childhood that almost always ended up being dog day after noon taxi driver, Rosemary's, baby Klute, the parallel view, the French connection. You know, like these movies somehow felt like an American expression one actually sort of a kind of regional or, you know, a kind of filmmaking of a place in, you know, in this case, I would just say kind of an expression of this fascinating mess. We call the United States. And I feel like these were movies that spoke very profoundly to their times without ever directing the times themselves like without ever directing attention to them. And so for me, I guess I just feel like there's an opportunity with Sean films to invest them with ideas. You know, like a great example for me is a movie like alien that's a movie about trash collectors in space. It's about working people. And most Sean removes our I think they're really about regular people. Stuck in really really heightened terrible situations, or in messes that feel extrordinary, but in fact, are an expression of how most people live which is day to day and fingernail by fingernail. And so for me, it's interesting to explore that and have the pleasure. Principle of movies. At work. I'm just I I love my art films. And I'll watch fanny and Alexander every single year for the rest of my life, and those movies are important to me, but I also need, and I would never say that a lot of those art films are not in many respects, deeply deeply pleasurable to me. But the idea that I could maybe reach people who I don't expect to communicate to with my movies. Not that it's the first goal. But it certainly a tertiary one to have people who aren't like me still say that movie spoke to me, and that just seems like that's the hope of what we do, you know, trying to communicate. Let's talk about horror for a second. I've not seen your heart films because I'm scared to watch them. Oh, because I'm scared of Harv movies there. You should see both of them. Okay. I don't often admit those gaps in my knowledge, but I am sincere in my being afraid to watch horror movies. I appreciate that. What are the what are the special things about a har- movie? That makes it compelling an exciting for you either. As viewer is a filmmaker. Well, as as both I would say, what first comes to mind is that horror movies are no matter what the plot is. And it can be many things, obviously, there's so many kinds of horror movies. They are speaking the language of dreams, and that allows for I think opportunities as viewer to see a story be told in in a different kind of way, and we still accept it. And as filmmaker there are ways than that. I can tell a story that are outside of what are the traditional conventions? And I think we can also really vote the power of literally the power of what happens in our dream life. You know there there's there's a. A sequence in Texas chainsaw massacre in in Toby Hooper's original, which I think is a masterpiece in which we watch woman run from one utterly terrifying situation to find safety, and we realized that she's just run straight back to her captors. And that's like a classic bad dream. I mean, you know, that that is a bad dream, you know, that's the definition of a bad dream and yet it's it. So so you can watch something kind of take on the hallucinatory logic of a dream which in some ways by watching. It is posed to dreaming at yourself. I think gives me a little bit more control over the situation. So while I understand not watching horror films because you're afraid of them. I watched them because I'm afraid of them like I need to feel some control over the experience of my own terror, and it gives me some shape, and so in some ways, I see it as like this. Opportunity to. To safely investigate the horrors of our life as opposed to actually experience them, which is the bigger hor-. You know living living living here on earth. I think is kind of the bigger the bigger terror. You know, we've found our pool clover. I have a pretty I have a pretty dark way of looking at the world. And I so for me, and I don't mean to I I want to be a more hopeful optimistic person. But the fact is I don't I don't think we have a ton of reason for it. And so for me making movies that make sense of or attempt to say that the act of trying to make sense, regardless of your success in that endeavor is is some step toward the positive. That's about as much as I can hope for another thing about horror movies is that they are one of the only types of film that has majority or at least a plurality of its audience as young women. Often there though, though one though, I know the conventional wisdom is that many of its female characters are are terrorized and marginalized by their very female nece, and while that can be true some of our most successful horror films actually have women Fronton center, which I think distinguishes it from a lot of other onerous more with Carin Kusov after a quick break still to come. She'll talk to me about Jennifer's body. Very scary. Very funny movie, she directed in two thousand nine it's bullseye for maximum fun dot org. An NPR. Welcome. Thank you. These are real podcast listeners not actors what you look for in a podcast reliability is big for me. How're I take comfort? What do you think of this? That's Jesse go Jordan Jesse go. They came out of the floor and down from the ceiling that can't be safe. I'm upset. Can we go too soon? Jordan, Jesse go a real podcast. Hey, gang Jesse really quick this week on fresh air. Terry gross. It's with comic Kevin Hart to talk about his work and recent controversy find that interview and other long-form interviews with the biggest names in entertainment journalism and books in the fresh air feet. Welcome back to bulls. Hi, I'm Jesse thorn, my guest car in Kasama directed the new film destroyer starring Nicole Kidman. It's out in theaters now Kusaba also directed EON, flux, the invitation and Jennifer's body the cult horror comedy classic from two thousand nine I wanna play a scene from your film, Jennifer's body, two thousand nine this is film that a lot of folks that I know who love this kind of movie love absolutely without without reservation some time. But yes, I'm happy. It's about two high school best friends too young women named needy and Jennifer played by Amanda, sea freight, and Megan FOX and Megan FOX's character is possessed by a demon that leads her to literally consume people and particularly her boyfriend's in this clip from the movie, Jennifer, who's the one with the demon inside her calls up her best friend, who's also, by the way, kind of in love with her and talks about how great it is to be possessed by demon essentially. Cuddle up. I feel so. For you. For the first time feels like your entire body vibrate. Yeah. Good. That's nice. Still a little bit depressed about the giant smoldering funeral pirate. Move on dot org needy. It's over life is too short. Steam moping around white trash crossed. That's sweet, Jen. You know, I tell it like it is. And you know, what you should be happy for me because I'm having the best day since like Jesus invented the count. Jesus. Didn't invent the calendar. Whatever. Oh, it's funny to hear it that way. Divorced from images. Sorry. It's the best. We can do. We'll get there. Eventually. It would be a distraction when people are driving. Yeah. The hologram. So this was obviously like the the movie that when Diablo Cody who wrote it became the most famous screenwriter in Hollywood after writing Juno. This was what she wanted to do. This was her this was her peck. She's like, I I wanna make this movie. How did you end up attached to it? I had read the script and they hadn't found a directory yet. I know they were out to a couple of directors. And I just I laughed and cried it was like that kind of script for me. And I growing up I watched movies like heathers and an American werewolf in London, and the howling and these movies that had humor and Akon a whore component to them. And I just I just felt like this is so my wheelhouse. This is so where my seventeen year old self lives. And feels the most spoken to and I just felt like what made the script. So brilliant was that it really was about a very very dysfunctional friendship between two girls, and there was the alpha girl, and there was the not alpha girl, and as someone who is the not alpha girl, it it meant that. I could read this part of needy less Nikki and completely identify with her and understand the idea that you would want to protect your best friend who also is the person who torments you the most that's very female very specific. And might have some male parallel that I'm not you know as aligned to. But I just think there's something about that dysfunction that just like spoke to me. And then I just thought there is an opportunity for a lot of incredible images. And so I had put together this look book that I haven't I don't have a memory of having more fun pudding. This book together for me. It's a long process of. Like just sitting and looking at art books and looking at photography, and and just thinking about about images, and what excites me, and what speaks to me. And putting that together was just like, I don't know. It just like re energized me because I was at a I just made I finished this movie on flex that was considered a disaster. And it was just there's something about reading something. So exciting for me that I just went in there like kind of guns blazing and just said, you can hire whoever you want. But I'm the right person to direct. What were the images in the look book to remember, there's I have this book of horror films that really looked at a lot of the hammer horror films out of England. And there's just this supermodel, basically from the sixties. With blood dripping down her mouth and a kitten hanging out of it. So it's like it's almost like a Roddick, but disgusting and and just completely. Over the top. I, you know, like, how can you know, there's something about that. That just that kind of image was front and center in my in my look book to say, here's the tone. You know, because the the script was very clear. I mean, when when Jennifer polls, there's a point where Jennifer's like eating out of the chest cavity of guy, the, you know, the the star quarterback that she just seduced, and then murders, and they described his intestines as as sort of flying around like confetti, and or like party streamers. And I just remember thinking like woo, that's really horrible. And and horribly funny. And so that's what the the look book was communicating and then there was a process of me, you know, by showing everybody that and talking it through with them. I got the I got the movie eventually was there a point after you? Had made the film that you realized how much of people's reaction to the film was going to be about the that moments cultural relationship to Diablo, Cody and Megan FOX, the snow. Well, I think what I've come to realize is that the surface interpretation from for me at the time was oh this reveals the culture's relationship to Diop blow Cody and Megan FOX as the years progress. I realized this is always the relationship. We're going to have with powerful women. It's just whether or not that the most nihilistic and toxic expression of that relationship gets gets voice. You know, it's like Megan FOX's images celebrity her image within transformers, which itself is Michael Bay's fantasy of female character in transformers. None of that is actually who Megan is or was. And so there were so many levels. I think of. Deep misunderstanding about. About how to frame this movie. I think what it was was that. There was like a failure to understand that the movie was more sophisticated then it's marketing materials, and that that's that's tricky and requires a lot of work, and the attitude I think at the time was well, look, you know, we have one of the best marketing teams in in the world, and we can make any piece of make money. And unfortunately for me, the the message implicit in that was even this one. When in fact, there could have been an opportunity to embrace. What actually did make it cool and interesting and funny and scary and worth watching and we're talking about and so there were so many levels where like things could have gone different way. And they just didn't so many steps in the process that were sort of the exact wrong thing happened each time. I think maybe also straight dudes Lakeway self are. Not as facile with the language of camp as other segments of the population might be though, it's funny because ironically to me, I look at the language of independence day and transformers and Pacific rim and like that's kind of camp. It's just it's it's just hope it's coded for men Thomas can Kate painting. I was just looking at where there's literally a like it's like a flyover by the by some fighter jets on a NASCAR arena with like fireworks exploding in the air. And like a bunch of American flags. As well. And they're all sparkling with the light of thousand Suns see for me. It's like if I were to become, you know, my own version of Thomas Kincaid, it might be that painting with like a young woman at the edge of lake like puking into it. So. So to give you a sense of like, you know, I'm all for, you know, a multitude of of of languages represented, you know, media languages represented, but I there's ways to tweak it, I think, you know, the other piece of that besides the way people were trying to deal with Meghan. Fox's celebrity at the time is that, you know, one of Diablo cody's, great qualities as a screenwriter is her cleverness, and that's a quality that has brought many genre. Filmmakers, many millions of dollars. All of the world's Shane blacks. And max Landis is and Quentin. Tarantino have have made squad gillians on making genre movie that has well executed cuteness in it and people were really mad at her about the time. Yeah. Was almost as if the message was no you. Don't get to speak from your own made up voice. You have to speak by my roles. We'll why why did that why does Diablo have to speak from anybody's rules, but her own and the fact that she was so defiantly saying, Nope. This is just how I do it. You know, love it or leave it it pissed people off, and it was really interesting because writer so rarely have being married to one and loving the experience as a filmmaker with working with screenwriters writer, so rarely get the opportunity to be acknowledged as creators, and yet they are indisputably the creators of so much of what we consume in storytelling. And it's almost like there's a resentment baked in to the act of creating we just hate the fact that like a an actor doesn't say these words having thought of them themselves or a director doesn't show up on set. And just say, you know, what I think would be. A great, you know, second act curtain this. And so for DR blow to have staked out that territory where she actually got to be a creator with a with a voice that was that distinctive. It's almost like it's almost like it made people fear. Yes. And I now see I I'm now I now have a really different kind of reaction to like the loudness in culture because I have to question the volume itself. Like, I have to wonder what what is this about what what's actually underneath all of this because it tends to be so many carefully constructed messages that if I really like look more carefully. I'm like, oh, I just fell for that. Like everybody else we're out of time. But I'm so grateful that you came to be around bullseye. Thank you very much. It was so great to. Talk to you. Thanks. Karn? Kuessel Vokes her film destroyer is in theaters now, it's great coal Kidman is up for a Golden Globe for her role in it also if you'd like to hear even more from KARN Kusov, she did a fantastic interview on our sister show here at max fund switchblade sisters, April on switchblade, sisters, female filmmakers, and folks from the film industry talk about their favorite Ron films. Carin talked about Kathryn Bigelow film near dark. We'll have a link to that on the bullseye page at maximum dot org. That's the end of another episode of bolsa bolsa is reported at maximum fund or grow headquarters. Overlooking MacArthur park, beautiful Los Angeles, California, where our senior producer Laura drove past quite a scene on her way home after a late night recording session last night. There was a fire truck blocking part of a westbound lane. There was some kind of suspect attained on the sidewalk standing in front of the concrete fence, she slowed down tried to check it out. Couldn't figure out what was up, and what's this one of the palm trees charred black? Yes. It was probably just reading from the sun to about this. If you know what the heck was going on, please. Tell us living in the city is fun. The show is produced by speaking into microphones, our producers. Kevin ferguson. Hey, sue gross. Yo is our associate producer. We have help from Casey O'Brien production, fellow here at max fun is shayna DeLorean. Are interstitial music comes from Dan Wally, aka. A DJ w thanks as always to Dan for sharing it. He does have a collection of his music from bullseye, by the way up on band camp. Just search for DJ w bullseye music. Our theme music is by the go team. Thanks to them and their label. Memphis industries, providing that use it to us if you'd like to hear any of our paths chose there are hundreds on our website, just go to maximum fun dot org. We're also on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube just search for bullseye with Jesse. I think that's about it. Just remember all great radio hosts have signature sign off. Bullseye with Jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org in his distributed by NPR.
Tim Heidecker: The Craziest Day of My Career
"Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR. nope I'm Jesse Thorn. It's bullseye time now for a segment that we call the craziest day of my entire career where we let some of our favorite people tell us the wildest doors from their long careers in show business next up. Tim Hi. Tim Is of course half of the very funny comedy. Do of Tim and Eric a partnership that has spawned four television vision shows countless tours and a feature film. Also this song which they proposed as a commercial jingle for Rollo's Wollo Tony Brown town check yourself at the door giving give them all a row lows. Tim is also kept himself busy with other pursuits. As an actor actor he appeared in bridesmaids and Jordan peels US among others. He also hosts adult swims on cinema at the cinema alongside Gregg Turkington. It's extensively a movie review. Show where he and greg play kind of a low budget fictionalized version of themselves reviewing the week's latest movies only only in its eleven seasons. Tim has nearly killed himself with new age. Medicine overdosed on nutritional vaping systems performed in Corny Rock and electronic tronc music acts and done all kinds of other crazy stuff. His character is also the star and creator of another show called decker. Kind of twenty four style spy thriller with a much lower budget. You'll hear more about that later. Most recently on Cinema Tim ran for district. Attorney in the county of San Bernardino California. That campaign is the subject of the new movie. Mister America in it Tim Dons Schlumpy suit and solicits real people to vote for a bizarre somewhat reactionary ultimately doomed campaign coming out here talking to voters. Taper Game Yes for District Attorney said that three times now when we asked him about the craziest day of his career. He took us back a few years almost three to be exact. Take it away Tim. Hi this is Tim. Hi Decker and this is the craziest day of my entire career. The day I'm thinking of begins the night before for it is November eighth two thousand. Sixteen we're shooting. A television show called decker political satire action show from the on Cinema Universe where I play Jack Decker. Who's basically sort of cartoon partook character of a right wing trump's supporting me with a little bit of Steven Seagal and Chuck Norris thrown in there there? We are following the election quite closely. It's everybody in the country of course kind of wondering what's going to happen. And we were Kabila terrified of Donald trump becoming elected and had spent a good part of the year satirizing lampooning him. But also you know recognizing singing music complete joke a horrible guy this country or not. I'm sorry all right. We're going to be doing this the hard way and and as the day was getting done you know we still try to stay focused on the job but we were watching the news and as the day was coming to an end the polls were starting to go a different way or sort of the news is starting to go a little bit of a different way and we all kind of left for the night instead see tomorrow and everybody had this look on their face like going to get home. I need to get home and be with my family right now. We weren't sure it wasn't sure it was going on and I went to my friend's house and we watched as things sort of just went the other way and and within about an hour after leaving set he had basically one couple of hours later. It was very shocking and very scary and I Went went to sleep. And I remember waking up the middle of the night and sobbing. I haven't cried in a long time. I don't know why I need to make that distinction to the Audience Idiots. I don't cry but I cried that night but no I did. I woke up crying and then I went back to sleep and the next day went into work and that that day EH. We were shooting and I promise you I do not make this up and it was on the schedule and had been scheduled for a few weeks was Jack Jack Decker was set in the future and Jack Decker had become the president of the United States in the first scene of the day. Was Jack Decker in the Oval Oval Office with his feet up on the desk with a e cigar because it was the future and we had you know fake thing where he was sitting there smoking a Cigar Guard feet up on the desk and barking orders his assistant art I or business will be to eliminate the EPA and all federal organizations that have been strangling small business business all these years. We must also rebuild the military. Make us the great power that we should be. The era of Davidson's big government is over the way Jack Decker in in trump kind of intersect is a very simplistic nationalistic xenophobic point of view of the world which is very simple in bowl and direct and he is right every single time. There's no room for negotiation. There's no room for compromise or nuance. It's one technique we do when we make the show. is we write a script but I've quickly forget it and don't memorize visit. And so what happens is I try to remember what I'm supposed to say which creates a lot of And and repeating and the thing that trump does which is he can't pause. He can't wait for thought to come. He has to continue to create. Sounds out of his mouth. uh-huh what does it say. One of these plans plans to his plan for them to blow up the world trade the Super Bowl we devised a system. Where I would have cue cards made of the lines and we put them far enough away so that I had to squint and I had to struggle to read what was on on the words and then some words you you know if it says Worlds I would say words and that's another thing. Trump does when he's giving it's speeches when he's reading from teleprompters which he does very often it. There's this appearance of him reading it for the first time in front of an audience you know that he has not reviewed talk. That is being read. WELL SORT OF DRACULA LATE. It's been nice knowing you but I am afraid. Your time has come to an end. My father once told me you you were the future but in fact it is America that is the future. And so son of Dracula with the push of this nuclear button. Your reign one of terror will come officially comes to. Yeah in the moment where I'm sitting there probably nine. AM on a Wednesday in kind of ratty sound stage with an Oval Office desk and a an American flag and the rest of it being green screen. Because it's such a cheap show. I tell this story for this segment because it has those moments in life where you are completely aware of how you will remember this moment for a long time and it's a significant moment in your life and in the country's life you know nine eleven would be the other example in my life because I was in New York and I saw that. Go down literally You know there was like a while I'm this is one of those Moments were we talk about the simulation being a little too canny little too on the nose for a really programmers. You've got me playing the president on this day. The play person. I'm making fun of that. Just happened to be how things go. It was very self aware of how kind of nutty the situation was. You have to understand a small show. It's a small crew. We're all very close. Also incredibly incredibly creative artistic young men and women and a lot of women that were very very shaken and upset and Few of them are costume designer. Came in was crying. She came over and Hug and I said well you know I tried to just trying to put it out of the room a little bit and not focus too much on it because we have a job to do that day but you know it was in the room and everybody was just like shocked and scared because you know there were seemed to be real consequences to this. There is now a guy who's promising to do all sorts of of stuff that was going to potentially affect a lot of these people's lives and Not One to give speeches. But there I was sitting behind the Oval Office Just a project Jack Decker and I could tell that there was no way we were going to get into this day without at least kind of cleansing the room or something and so I kind of gave this little motivational speech choking back tears and just say you know I know I feel the same way as you guys do really upset and I'm scared in a lot of always and Disappointed but our job in the past few weeks and going forward today is to make fun of this mother. You know and Goof on the insanity of it and satirize it and go hard on it and try to do it an entertaining way. But we kind of rallied. Everybody up. We're actually here to do this thing. Indirect reaction to the many of the things he said and what he's potentially planning on doing. We had a nice big clap in a team. Moving as let's move forward and get through this day and we got through the day and I think I was proud to have at least recognized a moment to not just kind of ignore the moment but to acknowledge it and do something about it. Luckily everything turned out great. And we're you know I I was completely wrong and everything's going so well that I can't. I have to look back with much regret that we ever shed. Any tears Tim Hidaka craziest day of his entire career. His new movie. Mister America is available to rent or download. L. Load on pretty much any platform. Check it out there. That's the end of another episode. Episode of Bullseye. Bullseye is produced maximum fun dot org headquarters overlooking Macarthur Park and beautiful Los Angeles California where My producer Kevin saw a a kid take a giant palm frond that was on the ground and throw it in the track helping to keep our park beautiful. What's the generation after millennials called? I don't remember but they're good folks. The show is produced. By speaking into microphones. Our producer Kevin Ferguson. Hey Soussan Brosio is our associate producer. We get help from Casey. O'Brien our production. Fellows are Jordan cowling and Melissa. dwayne or interstitial music is by Dan Wally also known as Dj w our theme. Mm Song is by the go team. THANKS TO THEM IN THEIR LABEL MEMPHIS industries for letting US use it and there are nearly twenty years of Bullseye and sound of young America interviews available available for free on our website at maximum pun. Dot Org you can also find many of them in your favorite podcast APP by subscribing to bowl side. I recommend end for example the time Tim Heidegger Eric where Heim came on the show. This was back when I used to tape it in my apartment and they just wanted to talk about jazz has just talked about jazz the whole time he was a lot of fun. We're also on facebook twitter and Youtube. Just search for Bullseye. With Jesse Thorn you can keep up with the show there and I think that's about it just remember all great. Radio hosts have signature. Sign off Bullseye. With Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot Org and is distributed by N._p._R..