5 Episode results for "Jesse Rice"
"It's Thursday August thirteenth I'm Keila Hughes and I'm getting resnick and this is what the day where we are currently imagining booking plane tickets to a real. DNC. Me No it's a silly dream, but it just kinda gives us hope to imagine. Yeah I'm having a ball looking for neck pillows online. J. Show conversation with a teacher in. Georgia dealing with the return to school some headlines but first the latest. And let me tell you somebody who has presented my fair share of arguments in court. The case against Donald, trump and Mike pence is open and shut. Just look where they've gotten us. More than sixteen, million out of work. Millions of kids who cannot go back to school. A crisis of poverty of homelessness, afflicting, black, Brown, and indigenous people the most. A, crisis of hunger afflicting one in five mothers who have children that are hungry. And Tragically. More. Than One hundred, sixty, five, thousand lives that have been cut short. That was Comma Harris detailing the abject failure of the trump administration yesterday in the first public appearance of the twenty twenty Democratic presidential ticket. Yeah. It was super interesting to see how this all laid out with not a lot of people are people clapping or anything, right? Yeah I mean it was socially distance. They were both wearing masks and then when they were speaking, they were not wearing masks but the other was very far away at a chair. So it's just different than anything in history like pretty much every moment that we're living in but. Kamla. Tell them about himself. In. Other news parents and teachers are still struggling with the return to school, which has already begun for some students and we'll begin for more soon backdrop. All of this is the fact that in many districts, the krona virus is far from under control and our understanding of Covid nineteen and kids is still really developing a recent report from the American Academy of Pediatrics found. That almost one hundred thousand children tested positive for covet in just the last two weeks of July. Some of that uptick was attributed Damore testing and most children do not get critically ill but it's definitely become a flash point as officials make decisions about how to start the year and the risk of spread in and around schools. Yeah. That's right and Kentucky's Democratic Governors cited. That report on cases among children earlier this week when he recommended that schools in his State delay in person classes then yesterday New Jersey's Democratic governor relaxed a prior position. He had by allowing schools to have all virtual classes when they restart next month. Meanwhile, we have Florida's Republican governor who wants one of the larger districts in his State to actually reverse a virtual plan. and Go in person. So a lot of unevenness in how this is being dealt with place to place and Georgia is another state where the Republican governor support. School reopenings in person. Let's get into a little bit more on that. Yeah. So we've been following along as some counties have gone ahead with in person classes in the issues that are popping up as to be expected. Take, for example, the Cherokee, county school district where over a thousand students and staff have been told to quarantine following some of those positive test results a high school and Paldon County was made famous viral photos of credit hallways for counties that started remote like when that county, the largest the state, there are reports of some technical issues. So to get a better sense of what it's been like we decided to check in with mony seward, she's sixth. Grade Special Education teacher in Dekalb County and other Metro Atlanta county like the other ones that we mentioned. We last spoke to her in April when schools halted classes. She starts school next week and her district is going all virtual for the foreseeable future. Now niece it is so good to speak with you. Again. Thank you for talking to US I'm glad to be back. Yes. All right. Well, the last time we spoke we talked a lot about. The students that you teach you work with special needs, students, and special learning needs. Students who don't have English as a first language have you been in touch with your students and their parents over the summer and what do you think some of their biggest challenges might be as you go into this new virtual school year? Well, we just got our. Rosters for this year yesterday. So and I just got my caseload because I have a caseload especially a teacher. So I just got my caseload today. So tomorrow I'm GONNA spend some time reaching out to my parents in English and Spanish Just doing that reassuring like I did last time. This is a this is a difficult time for everybody my expectations in terms of. The amount of work that I that I? Think, we're going to get. Is, not. Really. I don't want to say this the wrong way it's not really high because I don't want I. Don't want people to think that I'm going to try to just go go go like I would in in a if we were in the building because I'm not I'm not GonNa do it but I want appears to understand that I'm still gonNA give. Your Dot, what they need, but I'm just not going to do it in the traditional sense right and we read that a board member in your district said that this past spring semester online was a bit of a disaster with low student participation. Did you experience that on your end and do you think the issues from the spring have been worked out at this point? Let's see. One, hundred, sixty, four, thousand people are are. There, right yeah. Okay. That hasn't changed. What are we? How many millions of people. Are. Unemployed. That hasn't changed. I don't know how many of our families have people who are sick passed away the job I don't know who's going to lose their home. That stuff. So and that comment you brought I'm glad you brought up because I was infuriated when I read it. For. For a number of reasons because first of all. The law engagement had absolutely nothing to do with the way we were teaching. It was not the fault of not knowing how to use them. We were in a situation that many of us had never experienced before. So for someone to insinuate that my colleagues and I and I'm speaking for all the teachers in my district that my colleagues and I. Were part of the reason why engagement was low it was very offensive. because. I know a lot of us were struggling through time. Because yeah. Education is not perfect but dammit, we love what we do. And despite the low pay. The disrespect. The fact we spend our money on classroom supplies and sometimes food for our students whatever else they need. We still show up every year. So for that. that. One thing to be blamed on low engagement when nobody taken the time to talk to those families to find out. Why their kids maybe want logging in every day. Or? resulted a teachers and say, Hey, do unique. because. We're dealing with this too, right? Yeah. Exactly. Almost all of us have kids too. And then as the time went on people that I know from work had people who were affected directly affected by Cova nineteen people who way they were lows and family members. So for you to say that engagement was low because of zoom I mean, you don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to work Zuni. Everything's labeled in zone. If we can't read, it would be in the classroom. And in terms of the kind of power that teachers can exercise if there is. Stuff, to be done there, we've seen in some other cities and districts, teachers, unions being the people that are the ones that are kind of putting a stop to some of the ill advised plans from other people. So are you in a union yourself and if so what sort of actions have? been taking or what conversations are going on around that. Oh, we don't have a teacher's union here. We're in right to state so. There were some teachers in the district row live who were protesting at the county office for the past few days on their teachers from that district who also resigned. because they they either, they don't have child care for their kids or they have a spouse who's immuno-compromised. They don't WanNa take anything home to them because of mass are not gonNA be mandated, and if you can't social distance wildwood I, WanNa. Roll the dice and go to work rain all love what I do so but you know what though? This is a perfect storm. We don't have a union here but. I think even though we're we're pushing back against it's GonNa make it's GonNa make things change. We won't see it immediately. But. I think now that we have more black people run for the school board and winning in my district. And people getting more civically engaged to find out what's going on in our local school district to see you know if you're an accounting with the highest number of new cases, why are you trying to force teachers to go back into build? So. Right, now we're limited to what we can do, but I do think that. Gradually we're gonNA start seeing some things shift because. We some of us are. Not accustomed to seeing people raise hail. Yeah. Some people are not accustomed to it. And I think now that some of these people are seeing other people. Step out in front. And do this they're going to be. Okay. So people are doing this and I wouldn't be by myself even though this is an Islamic. State. Some considerations you have to make the back of your mind. What would I do it from teaching how to take care of my family because believe me I've been sitting here. Thinking of applying to figuring out what I'm GonNa do to take care of my family. But More. People are willing to speak up now. More. People are willing to speak up now because they don't who wants to wake up and say I'm on a goal to work knowing that I. Might Get colder. Nineteen might die fourteen days right? Right. And it makes all the sense of the world and yet we're having conversations about. Well, what if we just have the desk a little further? Like we go back to that last question Oh, my God. Money's thank you so much for always being so open and lovely to speak to, and we really hope everything turns out great where you are with your family and. Hopefully things start changing this country but thanks for talking to US oh. Absolutely. I have fun. That was mony seward, a sixth Grade Special Education teacher in Georgia. It's Thursday Wad squad and today's Tim check. We're talking about a classic seasonal treat, its Pumpkin spice, a flavor that usually marks the start of fall but which Dunkin donuts is bringing back in just one week starting August Nineteenth Dunkin we'll have pumpkin flavored Latina's copy and doughnuts of EP. said quote or there's so much uncertainty heading into the fall. One thing fans can count on is the return of Pumpkin at Dunkin. So. Giddy. Is this inappropriate time to sell these foods and drinks? Yeah. Why the hell? Not There's no, there's no seasons or time or whatever I mean. I'm with this VP here like give people a little bit of what they want. If you WANNA, go get those those pumpkin pumps in your insanely huge Dunkin drink God. Bless you. It's always going to be autumn until the end of time 'cause it's it. We've there is march for six months, and then now it's it's autumn as far as I'm concerned I mean. I guess I could see the whole. Let people get what they want. everything's kind of bad perspective but I gotTa I. GotTa. Disagree I. GotTa say it's just like it's too hot outside like it doesn't sink operator. I mean. It's definitely a lot of things I would start there. The weather is not a pumpkin weather. It's very hot. So you're not going to enjoy a hot pumpkin spice and who I don't believe in cold pumpkin like that like maybe Pumpkin Pie. But again, that's like its own thing I also just think it's too soon like. If we were in regular non Cova Times there'd probably be Christmas trees at the JC Penney and there'd be you know like a discount on Halloween candy like it's Thanksgiving or something I feel like we're just jumping the shark. My birthday is at the end of August, stop trying to make happen in my birthday month, which is securely in the summer. It's not right. It changes the nature of the gifts I get and I also think that like. It. It's a real bad omen like, why are we trying to skip ahead like I get this time suck. So I get why we want to skip ahead but also I would like to stay young forever. So please don't force me to get to the end of the year. Can we just take a day at a time? That's what might be episode we're supposed to be doing it i. just feel like they didn't tell Dunkin donuts the same thing. I think this is very well argued, and I also think you know I can go ahead and maybe just returned that Pumpkin cake that I had ordered for your birthday seems like it's not really gonna fly in this particular situation. That's okay I'll I'll eat it. Eat that one of for for the squad listening it's it's fun fatty for me. Apple. Tie For me. It's the. Not Pumpkin spice for me. Well, all right just like that we have checked our temps. They are cool like a nice gust of air conditioning in the summer, which it still is and not hot like Allante, which it shouldn't be host these safe it. We'll check with the all again tomorrow. Now for some ads. 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Today's episode of what today is brought to you by season two of going through it a male chimp original podcast hosted by Tracy Clayton going through it features fourteen notable black women including Jesse, Rice Ilhan, Omar, the Eighth Angela Davis, and more discussing a pivotal moment. They decided it was time to make a change in turn things around to check out going through it. You can subscribe and listen now on Apple podcasts, spotify stitcher or wherever else you listen to podcasts. Let's wrap up with some headlines head lands. anti-government demonstrations in Bolivia have entered their second week, leftist groups including labor unions, farmers, and indigenous activists came together to protest the government's decision to postpone their election for a second time. The election was supposed to happen in May, but it was moved to September and then move further back to October and critics see the delay as an attempt by current right wing present on is to extend her interim presidency as a refresher she got. Her position last year after accusations of a rigged election of former president Eto Morales which led to his ouster side. Note a later analysis of that election showed no statistical evidence of fraud during his time in power and investigation by Harvard law found that there was a huge surge in human rights violations, things like state-sponsored violence, free speech restrictions, and arbitrary detentions. Now, protesters are asking for her to step down and move up the elections. Great Well You K is experiencing one of its worst recessions on record compared to all major economies in Europe and North America. Britain's economy was hit the hardest by cove in nineteen with its GDP dropping by over twenty percent between April June the British economy shrunk back to the size. It was in two thousand and three not great experts say the government's slow response to the pandemic played a major role in the severity of the recession because they waited. Until late March shut things down the country needed to stay lockdown logger than its neighbors to curb virus spread that proved to be a huge issue for Britain whose economy is largely dependent on consumer spending the government plans to reopen school soon and is begging Brits to go back to working in offices. Government also dropped millions of dollars last week to subsidize meals eaten in restaurants. Fun Fact in England, they call free French fries, free chips, cheerio Gov asks the. Results are in for the primaries held in several states on Tuesday, and notably with the victory representative Ilhan Omar in Minnesota. The three members of the squad faced primary challenges have all won all four are expected to go back to. Congress. Seems like this whole time their secret weapon was friendship must passion integrity electrifying skills at hosting and great progressive politics among gop canvas newcomer Marjorie Taylor Green won her house primary in Georgia and his fever to win in the general election she is a supporter of. Making, this another big loss for Satan as Democrats who wear fingers as jewelry. Now, if you need a primer on Q., here's one from green in two, thousand, seventeen facebook video. To a Patriot we know that for sure but we do not know who Q. is okay. Great. All clear to me. A Green has also made extremely Islamophobic Anti Semitic racist statements in the past which House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy once described as quote appalling though that wasn't enough to stop trump from calling her quote future Republican Star in a congratulatory tweet yesterday. Unfortunately, I think that prediction is an accurate one green is one of several you friendly candidates who will be on the ballot in November. But for now, she has the best shot at winning seat. I blame although conspiracy theory podcast survey, and in other trump news, his administration is finally tackling our most pressing. Issue the Department of Energy has proposed rule change that would allow showers to shoot out more water. Trump has popped off about water efficient appliances in the past lamenting the very real and relatable problems of ineffective showers and toilets that must be flushed ten to fifteen times before they work the E.'s new rules would fix the first issue. They'd end up current policy of limiting water flow two point five gallons per minute per shower in a apply that same two point five, gallon, two individuals shower heads meaning if you have four showerheads in your bathroom like the president probably does you could start every day with a tin gallon splash best that leaves you absolutely drenched into story. Drag critics say this isn't a big concern that most Americans are already using significantly below the maximum water allowance personally if I were trump I be wary of water and election issues since he's going up against Delaware's most fearsome lifeguard Joe, Biden will inevitably end in some kind of swimming contests and I just pray that everyone is aware of their limits. Which Guy's going to do butterfly which and do breastroke. Could be taken a hold the towels, and those are the headlines. That's all for today. The show me subscribe, we review salt ships and tell your friends listen. And if you're under reading and not just consumer reports reviews showerheads like me what a day is also a nightly newsletter check it out at could dot com slash subscribe ign us I'm getting interesting. People saying. It's gross. You know it was a cool trend, but I think it's enough. Glows. Gloves would be more efficient forever. What a day is a crooked media production, it's recorded next special Atlanta's in Utah is our assistant producer. Head writer is John Milstein in her senior producer is Katie. Long our theme music is by calling Gilead and shock.
Case 96: The Toy Box (Part 2)
"Once you finish listening to case fall, we'd like to recommend another pocus fee to listen to Canadian troops wrong. Despite Canada's, friendly reputation. The country has been the like hyphen of some of the most heinous crimes. You could imagine the k. focus of Canadian true crime is honoring and respecting victims and survivors and exploring that loss impacted by loved ones and to the water community. The host of Canadian true Crom Christie Lee is actually an Australian who has been living in Canada, finale ten years and brings fresh eyes to well nine cases as well as exploring lesser nine cases fond out. Why Canadian true crime recently held the spot of number one podcast in Canada on apple podcast. You can find it on your favorite podcast app or a Canadian true crime, dot se. Are represented with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel it anytime you need support, please contact you'll across the central for suggested, find numbers, confidential, support place, say show nights for this episode on your app or on our website. Stretching a one thousand miles north to south highway interstate twenty five serves as the main route through way Ming Colorado into New Mexico. The New Mexico portion of interstate twenty five runs through arid desert landscape from looming Manton ranges to Saint swift craft, planes of walled, gross, and Android brush. This desolate lane, Skype doesn't often marching terms of excitement and draw can be long and uneventful yet every so often a bustling CD. Skype emerges on the expensive horizon with the hallway, providing a gateway to cities like Albuquerque and fading. Had it southernmost point. The hallway begins in the New Mexico city of Las cruises after just over now is draw northwood. The road calls around to the western edge of truth will consequences a desert city bordering the Rio Grande river. Truthful consequences owned at unique name after winning a competition with the popular radio quiz show in nineteen fifty. The tourism brushes for troop. Oh, consequences. TAT's the one road. Does it town as being only one hundred twenty miles north of El Paso and one hundred fifty miles south of Albuquerque. In other words, it is quietly truly in the middle of nowhere. Home to a year round population of around six thousand able truthful consequences attracts those who prefer the vast isolation of the surrounding desert to living in the shadows of Scott scribes. Residents leaving mismatched bungalows mobile homes or range doll houses on sunbaked lots. The small Dante and area officer, selection of restaurants, lodging, dove BAAs and access to the ancient hot springs that the town is renowned full. Further north, the highway runs parallel to truth. Oh, consequences neighboring community. Elephant Butte. About five miles separates the two townships with elephant Butte bang, the smaller quieter and less populated of the pair. Helath view residents travelling to truthful consequences when requiring services only viable within the largest city and casually, truthful. Consequences, fire head up to elephant Butte to visit the like. On February twenty one nineteen nineteen on off Judy sheriff's deputy, Gary Labo was heading north along interstate twenty five as Dr saw truth consequences, labor court, saw it of hitchhiker on the side of the road. The young woman motioned for him to pull over. Who is willing to offer rods to those innat- labor rone's car to a stop along. So at. To heat shock, introduce this. So physician Jelica Montagna and she requested a rod, one hundred fifty miles north to the city Ababba cookie live. It was heading in that direction. So he agreed to drop the woman off at a destination. Juny to Albuquerque would take about two hours as the past dotted cruising along the hallway in silica initiated some small, talk by casually remarking. You wouldn't believe what just happened to me. Deputy labour Austa. What happened. Jellico replied. Always just kidnapped by a couple. They held me in their house for a few days. Right. Me tortured me. And then let me go just nail when the hallway. In Jila went on to explain her encountering more days ago. The story began with her doctrine days prior and to led to descriptions of extreme sexual torture. The lights back as in which Angelica recanted her ordeal was surreal to deputy Gary libel and was as though she was casually Ray telling rather run eventful experience. Despite the distressing content of her story in silica show deny behavioral Sohn's of trauma, which Chuck libraries awed keeping his opinions to himself labor off at detained Jelica to a police station. So she could make a formal report on the metal. However, in Jelica refused to go anywhere near a police station and showed her no desire of reporting the incident. Given her relaxed Maino and refusal to speak to thirties labor, considered whether the woman was lying perhaps to make the car ROY Moore. Interesting. He didn't press the meadow and the topic was dropped. Once they arrived in Albuquerque, lead Angelica, routed a bus stop and beat her. Farewell. Old, noting Niks -periences bizarre. He didn't give it any more thought. And soon data's of being cana- completely slipped from his mourned. Just for a month Lyda Cynthia veils. Harrowing escape from David Palk raise house of horrors was dominating national media. Reports of potentially dozens of women being held captive on a suburban property within the sleepy township. Avila Butte was unlike anything anyone had ever heard before. Except for deputy, Gary libel. When he heard the news memories returned of the hitch hawk, he picked up on interstate twenty five for Manso at truthful consequences month Olea this story of doctrine and torture, Bush striking similarities to the one tall by Cynthia VU. Now convinced the heat shock had been telling the truth lie, the contact dean Vesta Gators who were ever saying the David Bacher right case and reported. He's interactions with the woman. Investigators were convinced ally beheaded inadvertently crossed parts with another. One of David Parker raise victims yet complicating the meta was lay busy ability to recall the woman's name. Despite this, the data of his suffering with something he could never forget. Reenter the same time that Gary lie, but came forward with the story about the he Choco investigators would contacted boy resident of hot springs landing who lived near David Paka rise best road hyme. The main claimed to have important information related to the case and agreed to participate in a formal interview. He's name was John Brennan, and he arrived to the police station accompanied boys, wife, Jean Brennan. The couple were acquaintances of Cindy Hendy. David Paka rise, PA, and co-accused. The Brennan's meant Hindi when she first the RAV in town in the summer of ninety seven upon her arrival hindered stadium, oh, till managed by Jane Brennan and Jane took Hendy under her wing. The women became friends and Hindi would visit the Brennan's house often. The Brennan's lived unle eight blocks away from David Palk gray. So often, Cindy Hendy moved in with Ray the Brennan's SoHo more frequently during these visits. Hendy revealed a lot of intimate details about her relationship with writing. Some of which were so shocking that Wahad to believe. During one of race in visits to John Jane's house and impo kated Hendy divulge the disturbing story about a boyfriend. Hendy revealed. David Pokka ri- had -ducted and sexually tortured a woman in his trial, holding her captive facility days. Bryce struck a deal with these prisoner, agreeing to release her on one condition that she never spied of what happened. Ri- in Hindi, dropped her off on the side of hallway into site twenty five just outside the neighboring CD of truth or consequences. Hendy referred to the woman as Angela. The Brennan's brushed off Hindi's. Drunken story is just that a story. This Hindi had a reputation for saying outrageous things purely for the shock value. Consequently, the Brennan's never conceded speaking to police about what handy had told them. It wasn't until I heard news of Cynthia vehicles escape from David Pokka raise property that the couples suspected. Hindi story about angel could in fact be true. Brennan's weren't actually the first to mention this story after Cindy handy's arrest. She told police about Angela, a victim Ray had left on the side of a hallway back in February. Between deputy Gary labor, the Brennan's and Cindy Hendy had appeared. All of them were referring to the same woman. But pacing they stories together investigators gathered that Ryan Hindi had abducted angel are in February and held her captive facility days before releasing her on interstate twenty five where she was picked up by deputy Gary Lila and left in Albuquerque. Then Lyda Hendy drunkenly confessed to the Brennan's about what Shane Ray had done. Investigators were certain angel or existed, and could I link hold out hub, she would come forward and make a report. But for Angelica Montagna, she readily dismissed the thought of going to the police since her ordeal at the hands of David Pokka, Ryan, Cindy Hendy in Jila, had been living in constant fee considering herself lucky to avoid Vince evolved in Jelica maiden abroad to move to where because on the day of her release, leaving her law in truth or consequences behind. She hoped creating distance between herself and her captors would stop them from coming after her again. In Jelica had already broken her promise to remain solemn 'twas. I, she spoke of her captivity to the main. She hitched a ride from to Albuquerque. And then again to advice, friend, when she arrived in town. Fearing what Ray would do to her. If she broke her part of the deal in silica, decided not to make matters worse by reporting the incident to authorities. A month later in Djelic is friend hood of the arrests of David Pokka, Ryan, Cindy Hendy, and convinced Angelica was necessary for her to return to well of imbued and report her doctrine to police. Who was surely before three PM on much twenty seven. When investigators combing David Pokka raise house, noticed the car, pull up to the right block yet. So. A woman emerged introducing herself as in Jelica one Tanya. In the early months of nineteen ninety nine twenty seven year old Anjelica Montagna was living with a partner and young son in truth, consequences. On February seventeen in silica made a trip to the local shops to purchase ingredients. The beg cake for her boyfriend. Whilst the Jelica walked along the mainstream of town and though to home pulled up. So I'd her. Looking up at the vehicle, she saw Cindy Hendy through the passenger side window. The two women already knew h. elbow. They weren't close, but they moved in the same social circles and across parts several times before. Has the pair exchanged small talk in silica mentioned. She was going ingredients for a cake. Hendy suddenly perked up offering to give Jelica some spic hike me. She headed her friend, David's place. In this moment, Hendy introduced Anjelica to David Pokka RAI who was watching the exchange from the draw of his seat. In Jila eagerly accepted a rod to retrieve the cake mix and climbed into the motorhome. After a shore quiet drive. I pulled up to the front of rise, yes, on best road and the trio winning sword. In silica whited expectantly for the cake. Meeks Hindi at promised. Head of nowhere gray produce the lodge, north and pointed towards in Jellico, threatening to kill her. She didn't do what she was told. Hindi stood beside Bray, not saying word. He Jelica burst out laughing. Shih-ming couple were pulling some sort of twisted prank. Her reaction infuriated grey to punch Dan Jellicoe in the face, causing her to fall toe. When she regained her composure. Hindy was pointing a revolver at her in Jelica then realized this was no joke. Ryan handy wooded Angelica, strip, naked terrified. She did as she was tall. They then restrained her hands and face or bed in the living room before clamping medal color around her neck, which ri- referred to as a dog cola. Once in Jellico was shackled Bri force, fed her an orange colored pill and made her wash it down with hard Lieko. The pill was supposed to have a dizzying effect that would impact in Djelic as ability to light a recall what was about to happen to her. However, the pill didn't have the desired reaction and in Jellico remembered everything. Right, whatever torture player and press the play button. The sand of voice emanated from the audio typing sword. Completely restrained and Jellicoe do nothing else, but listen. She later recalled hearing quite a bet you scared and like an apply with you for a wall. Things go worse from there. For the next five days, Ryan handy held Anjelica prisoner at the house on five one, three best road where she was repeatedly tortured and assaulted in a manner that owed striking similarities to the ordeal. Cynthia, Vail at endured. During this time and Jila recalled being taken into rice toy box twice. At one stage Anjelica hood, Ryan Hindy debating IVA ways in which they could get rid of her. Right proposed to options. The first was to inject Angelico with the solution of potent drugs that would blank out memory says she would forget what happened. He second option was to kill her. When Anjelica ever heard her captors discussing wise to dispose of her body. The very real possibility that she might door soon propelled her into survival mode. Restrained and exhausted Anjelica didn't have the strength of fought back and new doing. So would Eileen Ango captors. So she came up with a different plan. Great effort. Anjelica internalized all her ever ING fear and Ango Moscow from her captors. She then attempted to befriend Ryan in handy, hoping that by doing sir, right? Would be less likely to kill her. As the couple continued to torture and abuse and Jellicoe. She pretended to be willing participant light a telling investigators, the only way she thought she would survive was to quote play along. Anjelica is deception worked as ri- in Hindi, were making the final decision about what to do with their prisoner. Andy appear to have had a change of heart telling right that it wouldn't fill ROY to kill her. Upon realizing she had successfully fooled Ryan Hindi into trusting her and Jelica persuaded them to let her go home to say her son gray responded quote. He fought nine. You were this Norris a. wouldn't have kidnapped you in the first place. Brian great to release Angelico as long as she promised not to speak to anyone about what had happened. Desperate to get away from the property and her captors in Jellico agreed. On February twenty one Norte nineteen on five days after her doctrine taivon Pokka Ray and Cindy Hendy left Angelica Montano on the side of interstate twenty five. Despite handy referring to prisoner is Angela, it was Clichy was missed. Naming gain Jellicoe as when deputy carry Labo was lightish NFL draft of in Jellico Montagna, hey, confirmed. She was the chalk he had picked up and take into Albuquerque. With the discovery of a second survivor disorder. Law of David Palk Ray became a meteor session and their presence in Noah from Butte quickly, the wound, the small town. Nice audiences to the perplexing question of how such horrific crimes could have occurred rod under the noses of the local community without anyone suspecting thing. Raise property on bass road was no hidden in the wilderness, nor tucked away in a nauseated area of the desert at sat on a half acre suburban block with neighbors on all sorts parked at the rear of the property was raised infamous toy box trial sitting in point sort of poces by. Bonilla from beauts locals could often no ends. The mayor rebel of imbued Bob bonds would later express shock at the situation. Speaking of how the case it simply crashed in on them and left the town feeling violated. To locals Ray in Hindi carried themselves like any normal couple and raised. Absolutely. No suspicions. David Pokka Ray was regarded as clean cut and intelligent. A simple man who lived the routine lawf- on weekdays. He'd stop by the same gestation to purchase doughnuts and lunch supplies with the state parks, co workers. During these visits the stations, many Joe would give Ray free coffee. When he midges of a handcuffed, right? He being led away by police flushed across television screens, friends and neighbors felt that were looking at a monster. They didn't recognize us. Luck at pod, Cindy Hendy will say, came across his ordinary. She was an avid reader who enjoyed romance, novels, Christian radio stations, and adored. Her small dog named rat. According to those who knew her Hendy had become noticeably happier since moving in with writing, which they attributed to love. One of the more candidate sorts into Cindy Hindi's. Real character came from her, longtime acquaintance, John Brennan in an interview with Abba Kirke, television news station k. obey TV Brenna repeated many of the same stories about handy that he had told police during previous interviews, including the time Hindy drunkenly confessed to him that David Bacher Ray was responsible for hundreds of deaths. Hendy allegedly stated quote, I've always been interested in serial killer magazines and nail living with one. Hindi admitted to John Brenna that she didn't have a problem with partners crimes as she herself quote got off on the pain. Hindi also bragged about her participation in the abduction and torture of raise victims revealing that she did it for the adrenaline rush. Furthermore, Brennan spoke of the time. Hindi complained of a blood stain on her floor that she couldn't scrabble way. She said it was the result of Ray shooting, a man in the head. John Brennan concluded ease interview with reporters by revealing one last thing. Cindy Hendy at once told him that over the years, David Pokka Ray had disposed of upwards of seven buddies. You know, impute like. The quoting to Hindi right? Went to great lengths to ensure the buddies wouldn't have any buoyancy cutting them, open, filling them with rocks and bonding them back together with chicken wire. This act guaranteed the body sunk into the watery depths and wouldn't fly back up to the surface. Due to its close proximity to raise property elephant Butte lake was already an area or interest in the search for he's potential victims. But the problem facing investigators was this, she so as alike at surface spread IVA thirty, six thousand acres and it's Davis point had a depth upwards of one hundred sixty five fate. With add information to help them refund the search to a specific area. The only option was to clear the toy like which was an Ivy Lee ambushes osc far as you said than done. Although investigators wouldn't completely rule out a search of the like that were adamant. It was not going to happen in the immediate future. Name all the extensive search of David arrays, bass road property, continued yellow police tape framed the outskirts to Cape camping, meteor of bay and blue tops were hung around the double wide mobile home to block the same from curious, onlookers. Twenty New Mexico state police offices and thirty. If be oy agents in stir all jumpsuits and light Tech's loves sifted through the earns dead, filling to lodge veins with evidence taken from the same. Autumn's confiscated from rice property included a range of weapons, torture the voices and objects related to bondage. Dominance. Searches of rise workplace and Dodge Ram worked truck revealed a variety of police related autumn's. He allegedly used to conduct some of his abduction 's including badges a portable emergency lot a baton and a piece of paper listing, numerous common goals. Investigators refused to publicly Dato the specifics of autumn's taken from raised property after darn, what from the department of public safety visited the chrome saying, hey, told reporters, quote. When we witnessed firsthand. The evidence of the sane at literally made my stomach turn. This is very disturbing stuff. What lighter added that the more information authorities uncovered in relation to the case, the move all the Piquet. A major breakthrough came on much thirty in the form of a video, cassette type fanned in rice toy box. The type contained footage of a woman who is strapped to the Ghana college ical chair in rice trial. The footage was grainy it appeared. The woman was being held there against her will her face was completely banned in duck type. She kept making it tempts to cover up her naked body and her movement was sluggish as though she would drugged. Due to the poor quality of the film, and the fact the woman's face was covered. It was impossible to immediately dinner for her. One thing was clear. It was NATO Cynthia vio or Anjelica Montagna, but an unknown third woman. Her unle distinguishing facial was tied to of sworn on her leg which was done in trouble is on. Believing this woman could be yet another victim of David Parker writing investigators released any major of distinctive one tattoo through the media hoping she would be identified and come forward. In the main town little red flags were being erected throughout raise yard leading media to speculate they indicated areas of interest. I soon to be conducted D.C for human remains. Propelling. The speculation was an anonymous tip off to the press which confirmed that burns had indeed banged found on David Brock raised property and currently being examined. Yet tests were quick to determine that these bones belonged to a small animal. Luckily food scraps right had given his pet dogs. Di, no human remains had so far, Bain discovered at the property or anywhere else. Reporters held little doubt that David Bacher rye was being viewed boy investigators as a potential serial killer. During the news conference, an FBI spokesperson told reporters quite. We are not going to rule out more victims. We are not going to rule out the possibility that this case involves swords we have not discovered anybody's. In this case, we have received information from people on the possibility of other victims. And we have following up that information wrought now. On March thirty days after their arrest. Additional charges were fought against David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy in relation to the second alleged victim in silica Montagna. Both accused near faced twenty-five charges in total with bell remaining at the insurmountable. A man of one million dollars cash. Both attorneys for the accused publicly declared that clients innocent and stated that we're ready together troll. Net, Noah investigators held a Tian meeting for locals and visiting media, which dispelled many widespread rumors circulating about the case, including one that claimed bodies had been retrieved from elephant Butte light. An announcement was made revealing that forty more FBI agents would be joining the investigation bringing the total number of active Lauren force officials on the case up to one hundred. This action was highly unusual as the suspects were already detained. Typically, the number of investigators decreased one suspects wearing custody. During the mating locals express their concerns saying they felt as though there were living in annoy man. Department of public safety secretary. Darren, why responded quite the non is behind bars. This is a safe community. To ten AM on March thirty one the long-awaited D.C at five, one three best road commenced, shovels and metal detectors were used along with brand penetrating equipment. The sense if any particular spot verse had recently bang disturbed, although investigators wouldn't confirm to the press what that would digging for spectators assumed. It could only be one thing bodies. Digging occurred in three main areas beside the house towards the middle of Balat and at the rear of the property, neither the chain link fence the Saranda, the Hon. A long day of digging filed to you any significant discoveries the following day, a cadaver dog from the Los Alamos Minton Quesnoy in coup named Guiness was brought to the crime sane. Guinness was placed in the yard for an extended period of tone, but hey, to failed to detect any human remains. As this initial dig wrapped up the FBI announced they weren't ruling out the possibility of conducting a major excavation of the property in the future. However, based on a lack of funding, so far that would confident there were no bodies buried on David Parker raise property. At the same time to searching. So I'd raise home was also raging conclusion. All up title of one thousand pages of evidence had been seized. This included David Parker race, toy box. To twenty four foot long trial was carefully placed onto a flatbed truck secured and take him with all other evidence to a crime lab. He now, but Turkey. Did the stories we tell sometimes Cape you up, nor do you have a hard Thome relaxing off the listening to the pug cost me to hearing about the details of Krahn can be really stressful. That's why we're excited to partner with com- the number one nap Philippe, meditation, and relaxation. It was even named Apple's two thousand seventeen of the if you head to come, don't comb slash case fall. You'll get twenty five percent off calm premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of premium programs, including God, administrations on issues Lucking. 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Despite the hundreds of autumn seized from David Paka rise property investigators still had no proof. He was guilty of any alleged crimes. They didn't get the cans given by Cynthia veil or Anjelica Montagna. But to go to trial with only circumstantial evidence was a huge risk. The footage fan in toy box of the unknown woman with the swan Taizhou added validity to the to survive is climbs yet, and to share was dented. And her ordeal was known, raise. Defense could shape the narrative and argue she was a consenting body. Additionally, as the search for human remains had filed so far Cindy's Hindi stories about rice alleged Motors when nothing more than he's with few remaining avenues left for investigation authorities would desperate. Hoping to get a more Daming testimony from her on April seeks. The prosecution offered Cindy Hendy plead you in exchange for information on David Pokka ri- her twenty five charges would reduce to just five. Von can't of conspiracy to commit kidnapping to cancer accessory to kidnapping and to cancer accessory to criminal sexual penetration. This would more than half Hindi's potential prison term of one hundred years. Hendy accepted the play. Do you. During subsequent interogations. She offered further details on David Paka rise lawf- and named several persons of interest. One name immediately stuck out to investigators as it wasn't the first time. Hindi had mentioned it to them, Dennis, ROY, UNC. She described ENC as close friend of David Pokka awry as the two sheds similar interests. Twenty-seven-year-old Dennis, ROY, Gaines. He lived a transient off hoping from one friends catch to the next when friends had enough of him. Chait motels were Yankees backup, and he's lost resort. Was his parents place every so often Dennis ROY Yancy was drawn back to his childhood town of truth or consequences. It was never good news when Yancey Ray appeared in town locals regarded him as volun- criminal, a reputation he'd maintained since he's teens. He was arrested for the first time at age sixteen, when, hey, into others, broke into a house, install a computer and stereo. Not long after he ANSI formed a satanic cult with friends. The group terrorize to local residents buy into laws in gravestones and poisoning small pets. When they threatened to stop killing children, local officials cancelled all Halloween festivities in town to pacify concerned parents. Es lighter UNC served in the United States navy for brief period of time, but he service ended in a dishonorable discharge. Even Yance he's friends will wary of his behavior. Many felt on edge around him was well known that years. He had a temper. And when he drank alcohol, which was often he's angle worsened. Volynets bursts would follow where anyone could be a target. He's rep shade included convictions for domestic violence into ripe. A friend also Recode gains. He saying he could kill somebody and not Blinken on. UNC's interest in satanism wasn't just a passing phase during his troubled youth. He carried his faith in devil worship into his at all lawf-, which led him at iden- years old to form a friendship with a fellow believer. David Parker, right. Both Dennis, ROY Gaines. He and David Parker Ray with followers of the church of Sidon members view Sidon as a positive, Arkansas representing prod liberty enlightenment and individuality. Although not supported by the church objectionable acts such as worshiping able forces animal law, human sacrifice, cannibalism, torture, and doc, odds have been associated with some believers. David Parker rice home was littered with satanic memorabilia, and he referred to his home has the church of Satan. According to Cindy Andy Reid, touted himself as a dungeon master of the LEGO chapter of the church. She alluded that he used his position to manipulate control and toolman others, including Dennis ROY Yanti, who she described as a quote, hardcore satanic follower of Ray. It wasn't just their mutual interest in sight in ISM that drew Dennis row, Yancey, and David Pokka, right to one another lock array UNC was a scientist. Someone who derived cleanser from other's pain or humiliation. The school friend recalled Yangtze's vivid stories of he's Tom as naval officer stationed in the Philippines where he'd pick up local sex workers and use them to act out. He site. Oh, masochistic fantasies. As their friendship blossomed UNC would stay race best road home whenever he was in town during one such visit ride discovered, hey, and Yancey shit, sexual interest in bondage, whilst DNC skimmed through a pornographic magazine right pointed the pages featuring pitches of banding gagged women bragging that he into next week had experimented with Bundy ratio, Yancey photographs. He had taken of a completely restraint woman. UNC had never met any of rays ex was. Therefore he couldn't confirm the identity of the woman in raise photography collection. Investigators believed she was more than likely, one of rice captives as he was known to take pictures of the women. He had have -ducted whilst he tortured them. This theory was substantiated. When investigators questioned rise ex wives of which he had several who will Denard participating in acts of bondage with Ray. Knowing that Yancey was a fellow sado-masochist Ray gave him a tour of the inside of his toy. Box luck teacher educating eager pupil. He explained how each of these different devices and instruments worked, including how to use nipple clamps and administer electric shocks. Soon. UNC Andrei's friendship involved, entertaining debt to mutual interests. Satan ISM and say his. The pairing gauged the services of sex workers to participate in consensual acts involving bondage insider masochism. Some of these instances occurred within raised toy box Lyda when Cindy Andy came on the scene, the three would participate in such sex acts together. In describing GNC's overt devotion to his master Ray Cindy Hendy proceeded to make serious allegations implicating both men in a murder Hendy alleged that Yancy Andrey once held Yanni's ex wife kept the vid fav one three bass road after days of torturing and sexually assaulting the woman he would at Yancey to kill her as Yancy strangled, his ex wife to death, Ray student corner, taking photographs. Afterwards, the men bundled the woman's body into rice car and drive out into the desert during the trip gains he continued to violate his ex wife's body. Eventually they reached a suitably OS alighted location where the perr disposed of the body taking extra kit to ensure that it wouldn't be found. In the following day's UNC got drunk and was in such a state of euphoria that Ray grew increasingly concerned that his young accomplice would tell someone about what they had done. We'll worse will reveal the location of the body. I'm benign to antique awake off to the murder Ray returned to the spot where they had left the body and moved it to a different location. Although Ray light told Cindy Hendy of having I did the buddy. He didn't specify exactly where. Cindy Hendy claimed this murder took place years before she even met David Parker Ray and she only knew about it because he bragged about it to her. Although incriminating was immediately clear, the accusations made by Cindy Hendy against Dennis ROY Yancy for the murder of his ex wife didn't hold up. A quick background check by investigators uncovered that Yancey had never been divorced and thus never could have had an ex wife. He was currently married a woman named Christina who investigators found a law and well in another blow to Hindi story, Christina defended her husband. The gnawing claims Yancey was a sexual sadist Sheen's stood. He had never shown an interest in what she described as quote, Davian sexual behavior. Christina didn't annoy her husband's friendship with David Parker Ray recalling several instances where Yancey took her to visit five one, three bath road the I was on their wedding day in September nineteen. Ninety seven. The newlyweds were heading to elephant Butte. Like when Yancey made a brief stop at Ray's house on the way. During another visit, Christine is three year old child was playing in raise Yod and wanted in the direction of a lodge. What try LA towards the rear of the property right quickly stopped the child and warned Christina, that they could never go back there. Christina respected rice demand, but noted it as awed. Christina further revealed that during a brief separation with her husband in nineteen ninety eight Yanti had commenced the sexual relationship with Cindy Hendy when Christina and Yancey go back together, he confessed that the pleasure. Hindi found in volant sex acts had made him uncomfortable. Christina also noticed her husband had developed an emotional drinking habit during this Tom. Investigators tracked Dennis, ROY UNC to an address in Williamsburg, a small village on the western edge of truthful consequences. He was a fairly on remarkable man of lane, build with shop, shake bands and ahead of dark hair. He agreed to be interviewed about the David Parker right case, but information gained amounted to very little UNC admitted. He participated in consensual sex acts with Ryan, Cindy Hendy. He also revealed the Ray would occasionally invited sex workers who specialized in bondage inside masochism to join them in the toy box. During one trip to obtain the services of a sex worker riot expressed an interest in objecting, an unwilling participant to truly fulfil their cider masochistic desires, but Yancey assured investigators, they never acted out on the idea. UNC firmly denied the accusation that he had strangled a woman to death in rice toy box. He insisted that all sex acts dining saw the trailer involved consenting and willing parties. He strongly rejected, Cindy, Andy's claims that a murder had ever taken place. Undeterred by used in oil Hendy stood by her claim that he was a murderer. Inquiry's continued. The with without evidence investigators couldn't even be sure motor had even taken place that would dealing with too unreliable potties locked in a case of, hey, said she said. On the often noon, April non nineteen Ninety-one. Police held this third in view with Dennis ROY ANSI in an interrogation room at the truth will consequences Stipe police office. At one thirty pm. UNC was seated before FBI special agent, Gary Brodin and sergeant. Casey, Rogers from the New Mexico state poise. Brunches had Bain on the David Pokka right case since the beginning he had entered and searched the infamous toy box, torture, chamber observed, the confronting evidence collected from rice and listened to the disturbing Dato about the heinous crimes. He committed. Further adding to the sheer horror of the case was the knowledge Ray had accomplices. Criminal couples were not unheard of. Therefore, Hindi's involvement, though shocking was not unique. It was Dennis royalties alleged involvement. That stuck out is particularly concerning. If what handy said was true Ray had wrote to completely out soda in on his despicable lax. It was yet to be determined if that wasn't endorsement on rye or Yancey Rudge's, desperately wanna Justice for the victims, but every new breakthrough in that case had so far led to a massive for ARD Blunk. In he's third interview investigators, lawn of questioning Senator ended Dato Sindhi Hindi had mentioned in one of her statements she alleged, but when Yancey strangled, the woman to death in the toy box, the victim lost control of bodily functions. Investigators told Yancey banging, tended the test the floor of the trial of a day to determine if what handy said was true. UNC continued to deny any involvement. Sajjan Rogers was newly at his wit's end. He looked UNC straight in the awe and said that could obtain DNA from all kinds of sources. Quote. Blocked that poor woman who lost control of bodily functions and pissed on the floor when you're sitting on her chest, choking off out of her. Rudge's blunt comments seemed to switch something in sort of Yankees mourned. He snapped back quote, I was forced to do it. They made me strangle her. Stunned by UNC sudden confession bridges pressed for more information, but a Penny Heyns he just kept repeating, quote, always forced into doing it. I didn't wanna choker. After calming, Dan ENC asked for a lawyer, but quickly changed his mind and instead offered a full confession. Sajjan Rogers asked what Anne start with. Who was that you had in David park arrays hills? Who was it that you will cute. Without hesitation. UNC replied. Marie cocco. Marie Parker was at twenty two year old, single mother of two. She and Dennis ROY. Gaines had been a couple back in nineteen Ninety-three, but their relationship wasn't healthy at one point. Marais confided to a neighbor that Yancey gripe her. Marie told others of growing fee. She had of her boyfriend remarking that she no longer felt safe being in the same room with him unless another person was present. The relationship ended after Marais reported Yancey for domestic violence, a charge that lead to a conviction. He's lighter a reenter the end of June nineteen. Ninety seven Marie was visited from her apartment for filing to pay rent. She had seen Spain living in a tent on the western shore. Lawn of elephant Butte like behind the suburban St. of hot springs landing to ensure her two young daughters had a warm bed and a roof over their heads. Marie sent them to stay with people. She trusted until she got back on fake. On the morning of July five nineteen ninety seven Marie took a Dora's to the local swimming pool and spent the day with her brother and a friend. That often noon. She joked her daughters off in a friend's house before heading back to her, like sawed ten. At around four pm Marie left the camp in her nineteen Ninety-three geo metro car and drove to the blue waters saloon the local watering hole in elephant Butte and not be spent drinking and dancing with friends. Shortly before meet Noah, Marie mentioned to others that she had to go and check on her daughters, but would return to the bar lighter. Yet by the time, the Bod closed a Ray was nowhere to be saying. Assuming Morais was with a daughters. Her friends was startled despite a car in this elaine's parking lot. Mawdsley concerned about her. Whereabouts the group? Trevor and ten looking for Murray until two. I in the fan, no sewn of her. But the following morning, Marie stool hadn't reappeared her brother check to camp, saw at by elephant Butte lake and discovered that Murray's belongings were gone. The following days her car remained in the parking lot of the blue waters saloon and no one Saumur Ray come or go. The car doors were unlocked and Murray's purse was left between the two front seats. The most recent paycheck was unclaimed at the convenience store where she worked when marines do hadn't shown up July seven, her family reported her missing. Police officer attempted to locate Marie during their investigations a learnt. She was nine to occasionally use an alias angel. Morrison. Marie also had a history of suffering from suicidal thoughts. Based on this information. Police believed Murray Pokka a day. The taken her off will left hand for good under her Iliescu's who'll though the investigation ended with the evidence to prove that theory. So Marie pock is missing persons fall remained open. Throughout the following weeks months and years, Murray's family refused to give up and continued to search for her. During a telephone interview with the press arrays, mother stated quite. I've been searching and searching for two years of good her on almost every preaching in the in toy. United States. Two years is a hell of a long time to go without your friend, your daughter, you'll blood. On April non Norte ninety one almost two years after Marie pocket disappeared. Dennis ROY Gaines. He fondly revealed the truth about what really happened to his ex girlfriend. Living and working in the Kirke. The Tolan UNC was surprised when he's a strange father, Martin contacted him and suggested they take a ride trip together to get reacquainted. Martin was a paraplegic Vietnam war veteran who had since taken up painting. He planned to fund their trip by selling his work along the way. Feeling lucky was going nowhere and he's current job yet. She agreed to join his father on the road. He had just one request that they take detour and mega shortstop off in elephant Butte gains. He explained he had some stuff he wanted to pick out from her friends house and also wanted to stop bought a wishy sister. Happy birthday is she lived in the area. Not an agreed. After the one hundred fifty mile drive south NT in the company of his father went to visit. He's out friend. David Parker ri- as it was the fourth of July weekend accommodation options were limited. You know, of him beard as the town was busy with tourists spending the holiday, celebrating the light as such right? Happily invited visitors to stay at ease. Dennis, ROY Yanti spent Saturday July far, drinking steadily, arise place until he fell buzzed. Later that naught a visitor arrived to five one, three bass road. It was David Pokka rice, thirty year old daughter, Glenda Jane Ray better known by her nickname. Jesse. Drugs were major problem by elephant, Butte and its neighboring town, truthful consequences due to their rural locations. The tens tended to attract drifters living fail of the law or others wanting to run their own troubled pasts. Local drug dealers were always ready into willing to make a quick buck of the massive honorable members in the community. One such Teela was Jesse Ray. She saw crystal meth, cocaine, and marijuana Twenty-one, who asked. Jesse was easily recognizable around town. Her presence was often full worn by the grumble of a motorcycle as it cruised, Dan, the main streets. The motorcycle didn't quite suit. Jesse. A theme blunt head woman with Avia stall rating glosses described as quiet and reserved in much the same way. She stood out at her local haunt Davi Ruikun role balk bar in town. To those who knew her? Well, Jesse was far from the mate young woman. She appeared. She carried a powerful presence which he'd volant streak that would emerge when provoked ex-girlfriends had reported her for incidence of domestic violence, but no charges wherever light in one incident, she attacked her expert in his new girlfriend with pepper spraying after Jesse was asked to leave their house. Who does she had debriefs in the elephant Butte community. It wasn't so much a home fit. Jesse Ray. She moved around often and switched jobs constantly while operating under different liaises. Linda, Brenda who Cici. Her employment history included stints as a cab Drava pay to delivery Drava and following in her father's footsteps and the Kenny. She had a young daughter who was being raised in the ways Yana jesse's mother, Glenda, David, Parker, race, third, ex wife. Jesse had temperamental relationship with father. David Parker Ray the two are close, but also prone to conflict back in nineteen ninety six. Jesse was living with the father on his rage in fence, like New Mexico. Grew marijuana in a small greenhouse on that phone land which Jesse would then. So to locals in June that year, Jesse accused Dr withholding money odor and an altercation followed seemingly spurred on. By this event, she contacted the FBI and volunteered information implicating David Parker Ray in acts of slavery. According to be oy agent, Doug Bilden quite. Jesse alleged the David Pokka. Right? Was abducted and torturing women and selling them to boys in Mexico. Throughout the following year, the f. b. o. dug around to save that good fond anything, substantial to support Jesse rice client because she had been so nonspecific that nothing surfaced. The f. b. o. were unable to determine who the alleged -ducted victims were. As Jesse off the no names. Agents visited David Parker as ranch where I questioned him directly, but he confidently denied the allegations. I've been end up front with these answers, right? He gave a thirties, no impression. He was hiding something. Soon after the interview Ray moved back to Albuquerque and because he wasn't formerly charged, no one followed after him. With absolutely no evidence to support Jesse raise accusations. The FBI dropped the case. Who was suspected that the whole situation was a law concocted by Jesse in spot of her father. This all occurred thirty years prior to the arrest of David Bacher Ray in relation to the abduction captivity and torture of women, love Butte. David puck, right? Didn't know. His daughter reported him to the f. b. o. he was told they had received an anonymous tip. Tom, the father and daughter patched up their licensure and became very close spending, Tom together. Whenever Jesse Ray moved back to town. Jesse ri- also shared a close friendship with Dennis ROY Jhansi when both wearing town, they'd take time to catch up spending mice events on together, drinking dancing, and playing pool at the local off BAAs potting by the like. When often town with these father on the fourth of July weekend, Jessie was eager to catch up with her old friend. She drove a motorcycle up to five one three best road in the sweltering hot evening of July five nineteen ninety seven where Yancey was in sword, intoxicated. After a brief catch-up Jesse ASTA father. If she could borrow, he's Dodge Ram truck to get around that evening. David Parker riot grade and handed the case Ivo Jesse us to join her on a draw to the blue waters saloon. During the ten minute drive, Jesse told Yancey that will going to the bottom pick up his ex girlfriend Marie Cocco. Marie hadn't maintained a friendship since they break up, but they had run into each other at a party the previous day and got mauled -ly reappointed UNC filled their interaction at Bain, oppose it. If one as given Morad Voss on had who have come her current living situation. Not at full and by the time Jesse and Yancey pulled up. But the blue border salute on the corner of warm springs boulevard and highway one, nine, five country music and joyful cheddar rewarded from the building. Leaving the answer, learn in the truck. Jesse exit the vehicle and disappeared into the BAA in sawed. The wolves were dawn with Americana decor, not typical for country town, watering, oh. Patrons guzzled back be whilst dancing to step and playing pool on an overworked pool table. Sure. Tom lighter, ENC court, sort of Jesse emerging from the ball with her was Murray parka. Murray clumped into the passengers say, and Jesse got behind the wheel. Sandwiching Yancey between the two women. Jesse tell them she had to make a quick stop to conduct a drug deal, but assured it wouldn't take long. The trio required as Jesse drove into the empty darkness of the town yachts goods, stopping Awal later at a secluded hilltop. She climbed out of the car and after looking around, she told the others that the deal had arrived yet, and I'd have to white a wall. Maureen Yancey whited in the car, making small talk to pass the torn. Jesse posted around to the passenger side of the vehicle, and I've been to the dual. Murray turned to her and was struck with Tara when she noticed Jesse pointing a revolver at a. Jesse used a free hand to pull out a pair of handcuffs, frozen in fee Murray didn't resist as Jesse clipped the cuffs onto our wrists. Pointing the gun into the car. Jesse demanded by the ANC and Marie to get it out. The pair followed orders. Jesse lead them to the rear of the truck. After I've been in the back door, she would at Yancey to get in and hold Marie Dion. ENC did as he was told. Inside the truck. He climbed on top of Marie and cocoon body with ease insuring she was out of saw and unable to move. UNC recalled that Maria was so petrified that there was no need to put his hand over her mouth. She didn't make a sound. Before Jesse slammed the door, shut behind them. She barked sit down, shut up and move or kill. You. Jesse resumed her physician behind the wheel and drive the truck away from the area low Yancey continued to halt Marais Dan, in the back. After short drive the Cobb again to right. It was clear Jesse had turned to the vehicle onto a gravel road. Not long after Jesse pulled the car into a driveway and brewed into a stock. Jussie exited the car, and he ANSI soon followed. They were at five one three best road. Truck park along saw the long trial located at the rear of the property. The trailer door swung open and David Parker Raya merged, bright, grabbed Marie Pokka from the rear of their truck. And with jesse's hope, dragged the front woman into the toy box, closing the door behind them. During his confession UNC told investigators, he didn't enter the toy box for the duration of Murray pockets captivity, but knew exactly what would happen to her inside. After my raised doctrine UNC wondered in the race house very grabbed to be and started drinking. He debated whether he should call the police feed what Ryan Jesse would do to him if he did. Instead, he put the situation to the back of his mourned and when a baddies law as usual for the next few days. All the wall. He was staying David Parker as house. Marie was only a few fade away being put through unimaginable Horo. Father, Martin was also staying on the property completely oblivious to anything that was going on in the sand proof steel rain, forced padlocked trailer in the backyard. David Parker Ray continued is normal routine h day. He'd go to work for the state parks department when he'd return home in the evening, he'd had stride to the toy box where it spent most than on. Around three nights light up. Jesse Rae returned to the best road property. She told UNC that her father was quote done playing, and it was taunt for Marie Baca to go. UNC fuller Jesse into the toy box. Marie was lying on a portable Lami stall caught with her eyes closed and covered with cotton wool. She appeared to be swiping. UNC was handed a rope and understood exactly what was expected of him. He didn't argue or resist using two hands. He wrapped the rivalry aunt Maria neck and Taunton. Marie began to fought making it difficult for years. He the holder stool. He put a on her chest and pressed down to hold her in class. Completely restrained. Ray could do nothing to save yourself. Jesse right? Watched on old David Pokka Ray hold up his camera, photographing marine fauna moments. When Marie Daud UNC and Jesse proceeded to wrap a body in a green blanket and Placer into the back of David Parker raised DOJ ram truck. During the naught, the trio drive out to an awesome lighted stretch of the hallway with dumped a body unit day ravine in the middle of nowhere. As they rode Moore as body out of the blanket and into the reviving, David Parker Ray turned to Yancey and warned him. Say anything or you join. And his father Martin left raise property a few days later that were having a drink together later in the wake when Martin's dotted, reliving stories of Tom is a soldier in the Vietnam war during the conversation about the killings the mon- witnessed during that time UNC interrupted his father and said, hope of done something terrible Dino had it's how you this killed somebody that didn't deserve to door and wish it was made was dead. After confessing to investigators to the murder of his ex girlfriend, Marie parka, Dennis, ROY UNC was charged with five cans. Kidnapping first degree murder conspiracy to commit kidnapping conspiracy to commit modo and tampering with evidence if convicted, he faced potential prison term of forty six and a half ease. NC strongly maintained that he had nothing to do with the planning of the modal and simply went along with David Parker Ray and Jesse Rae fearing the consequences. If he refused. Cooperating fully with the investigation. UNC lead investigators to where the trio had left. Marie. Pock is body a nauseated pod of the hallway about fifty miles west of elephant Butte where arid, he'll scape with surrounded by Bracken. The remote part of the hallway stretched on for miles with no distinguishing features. The spark gains his memory as to where exactly Marie had been dumped. Everything looked the sighing with no landmarks or houses to differentiate one area from the next. Yes, he felt somewhat confident. He had directed thirties to the correct Weixin of Murray's body. However, he couldn't be one hundred percent certain. The not the group had driven Murray's bony, Yancey, spent the trip lawing in the back of the truck. So we didn't get a proper look of the surroundings. All he could remember clearly was that the ravine was about twenty five faith from the edge of the road. And there were lodge pale aligns NIA boy. This information wasn't much hope given that the road ravine and Pella lines stretched on for miles. After an extensive search authorities were unable to recover Merapok as buddy at the identified saw. They suspected Cindy Hindi's. Part of the story was true that in the wake off to the murder Ray had returned to the scene and move to the body to a different unknown location. But investigators didn't give up the search. They scanned along hallways, less traveled roads and numerous areas in and around elephant Butte light, Dennis, ROY, UNC, trialed them in handcuffs on h. location in an attempt to jobs memory. But it was fruitless. The area was simply too fast covering this type park ways caves and being into mourns and desert plains. Cadaver dogs were used extensively, but they too found nothing. Over the following weeks. Numerous Coles came in from hawk as in campus, having found bones at the elephant Butte state park, however, testing revealed none of the bones where human. With nobody discovered the ROY UNC suddenly recanted everything confessed and revealed. He would now be pleading not guilty to Marie pock as modo. On June thirty nineteen nineteen on a fisherman at elephant Butte like spotted a burlap sack floating across the surface of the water. He retrieved the bag and when he pulled close, he noticed that was creating strange liquid. Looking in sawed. He was sickened to discover what appeared to be human remains, and he quickly found the place. Tests later revealed the fishermen suspicions wearing date, correct. The burlap sack had fished out of elephant. Butte lake contained human muscle tissue. Investigators didn't have any of Marie is day on file to test the tissue against a search through Murray's medical records filed to provide anything of use. The only possible way of gaining marines. DNA was to create a Ray construction of it. Using samples provided by of her biological parents. Moore as mother, a great to provide a day-night sample. However, Murray's father said he couldn't one hundred percent confirm that Marie was his biological daughter. Emma since Maria was young, he'd toyed with the thought of having a paternity test done to be sure, but it had never gone ahead. Without a reliable Danai sample from the Murray Parker herself who won reconstructed from the Dana of biological parents. Investigators could not confirm whether the human remains fan in the like belonged to Merapok. Oh. To this day, the remains of never been positively identified and Murray park is buddy has never been recovered. Repack is Murdo although a huge breakthrough had reached the same abrupt to none resolve conclusion as every other late in the David Baca right case determined to find conclusive evidence of David Pokka rice Crohn's, the FBI continued to rage yet the witnesses and potential victims through the media. News reports, prominently, featured image of the swan Taizhou belonging to the unknown woman who appeared restrained in the toy box in one of Ray's homemade videos investigators were certain. The woman in the footage had been held by Ray against her will. As investigators continued to search through falls for any unsolved missing persons cases that could be linked to David Parker ri- a cool came in. Someone had recognized the woman with the swan tattoo. To bay continued in the third and foreign installment of the series next week.
The Push for Accountability Following 2020's Racial Justice Uprisings 2021-03-02
"This week on the experiment. How did one group of immigrant workers become the hardest hit by the coronavirus. That's this week on the experiment. Podcast from the atlantic and wnyc. Listen and subscribe today. I'm rebecca host and producer of npr. And wnyc's consider this filling in for tanzania vega and you're listening to the takeaway grow Last summer the brutal killing of george floyd by police in minneapolis set into motion a national reckoning about systemic racism and police brutality floyd's death which was captured on camera and viewed by millions illustrated the unequal justice system. That black americans have experienced for far too long at twenty twenty study from harvard. Found that black. Americans are three times more likely to be killed by police than white americans. The names of those who've died at the hands of police have become a rallying. Cry for change. Brianna taylor recharge brooks daniel prude. A tatyana jefferson. The list keeps growing and while the trial of derek chauvin. The officer accused of killing. George floyd is scheduled to begin shortly. History has shown how difficult it is to secure an indictment against police officer let alone a conviction for more. We're here with jesse. Rice president of the appeal and aaron morrison national race and ethnicity writer for the associated. Press josie and erin. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you for having ans- be with you aaron. The killing of ahmad arbery was caught on video. He was shot three times in broad daylight while he was on a run because three right vigilantes thought he was involved in nearby robberies. Remind us how local prosecutors initially handled this case will. They initially handled it by Let's just be blunt by not handling it. They did not afford Mister perry the civil rights protections that You know others would would get in a what is clearly a criminal a criminal case so And at a very heinous act That was carried out by the by the mcnichols so That's the reason why his mother wanted to. Cooper has filed a civil rights lawsuit just Just recently on the one year anniversary of his death. And where do things currently stand with the trial of the men charged with his murder while they essentially wait await trial trial. Date has not actually been set yet so We're you know we're we're a few days past the one year since amounts death And the families is still awaiting no basically A roadmap for for how how. Things are going to proceed josie. What sort of defense are the three men charged in arby's murder planning on using where basically expecting to see them. Use two different defenses for their actions that day. The first Is the Citizen's arrest law. Which has existed and In georgia law. Since the year that the emancipation proclamation was signed. That's relevant because this law really has a racist origins and has Been employed in explicitly racist ways. Right so it gives it essentially gives citizens or especially white citizens the right without you know to to use the force of law to arrest people using the force of law though they don't have law enforcement credentials And what we see is that it. It plays out In similar situations thrown with arbery They also plan to use what is essentially a stand. Your ground law Basically arguing that ahmad arbery You know came at them after they tried to arrest him and in his Aggression made it reasonable for them to shoot and kill him. You can see how together these two laws Really allow If employed liberally really allow anyone to get away with shooting and killing whoever they want For the suspicion of even the slightest infraction rate. I mean the argument that they they were attempting to arrest him but they were also acting in self-defence Really doesn't align Unless you are in a place like in a place like glenn county last. June georgia governor. Brian kemp signed a hate crime. Measure into law in response to the reaction to arbitrary death before that georgia was one of only four states. That did not have a hate crimes. Statute camp has also proposed overhauling that civil war era. Citizen's arrest law. That you mentioned josie. So how significant are these changes. Look i think it's important to acknowledge some of the ways in which ahmad berry's death was systemically endorsed right and i think that the fact that georgia is one of four got a heat. Crime law is irrelevant. Data point die being said. I find that very often and especially very often southern states. I'm in georgia. These laws end up being used against the very people that they're meant to protect right places like louisiana where now Police are a protected class under the under a hate. Crime law right. You see under ecg and other states where actually any any additional criminalization tends to primarily hurt black and brown people for people not actually the people that this maybe maybe directed towards so i love to see an overhaul of this arrest. Lots and lots of bipartisan effort I think i think i understand the move towards signing a hate crime law but i am skeptical at how actually effective it will be at preventing deaths like amount rbis. This is this is trying to fight as pretty often criticized a culture war with policy an What we see in south georgia is yet again. Another example of of a history of racism and a history of law enforcement supported racism You know ending yet again in the death of at death of an innocent person. Aaron another notable incident of police brutality and georgia last year was the police killing of twenty-seven-year-old rayshard brooks in atlanta. Remind us about the details in his killing right. So you know rayshard brooks. It's pretty well know now that he was essentially stopped on suspension. Suspicion of dui. But you know. I was actually worker at the the wendy's that called because Mr brooks was asleep in his car and After an exchange with officers Who you know essentially Wanted to take him in Even though he parked his car and didn't appear to be posing any threat on on anyone. escalated into confrontation where they tried to use force to to detain him And then at one point. He got a Hand he. He basically got control of an officer's keizer he runs away and he shot in the back Those the officers involved were pretty swiftly. charged In in brought in on the case But the case is actually pretty complicated where it stands right now because it was the under the former. Da paul howard to boot essentially charged of the officers without Really empaneling a grand jury in the traditional sense and there are lots of reasons for why that that happened. But now there's the is sort of languishing bit because there's a new. Da who still. Who's now trying to decide how to proceed jussie. How common is it for district attorneys to be able to bring charges against police officers without involving a grand jury like erin just mentioned experiments uncommon and most states to be able to charge serious violent felonies without involving a grand jury. But it's kind of complicated. I mean i think it sort of depends state by state. I mean what we know. In general is that the the law and every state includes provisions that make it very difficult to convict a law enforcement officer of something like murder rate of of something like that you know. Inuk in cases like the death richard brooks And or the death of george floyd and so got dot. What what what has faced by by grand juries by trial. Juries by by defense attorneys. I'm sorry by prosecutors. Defense attorneys and by judges is the general limitations of the law in terms of wet their allies willing to do to hold the state accountable and the reality is they're just not willing to do much. The law protects state. It does not actually protect the people killed or harmed by the state and in every in every jurisdiction it makes actually getting a conviction against lisa very uphill battle. Let's talk about daniel prude. Last march prude's family call the police while he was suffering from a mental health crisis in rochester. New york officers placed a mesh hood over head to use as a spit guard and pressed him into the street until he passed out. Prude died a week later. He was forty one and last week. A grand jury decided not to indict the seven officers involved josie. How common is excessive force when police officers are responding to someone suffering from a mental health issue. Oh it's extremely common And it's yet another sign that the fact that police were neither trained nor equipped to address mental health crises are it is a tragedy. Travesty that are actually the people in charge of Addressing an emergency like that you know. If if if daniel prude's family had their had an option certainly they would not have wanted to call the cops and a situation where some stressing its struggling from a mental health crisis if you can imagine being in the throes of a mental health crisis the cops even even even the best cops are not a reassuring president. A presence there not calming right. What is actually necessary in a situation like that is a trained professional who deals with mental health crises because data is not Who is afforded the right to show up an emergency situations in almost every jurisdiction in the country. Save for just a few We end up in situations like this where people end up dead right It is not unusual To see such stories like this where a desperate family loses a family member. Who's who's struggling from a mental problem. And it's going to continue to happen until we actually remove mental health crises from the jurisdiction of police In any way shape or form the reason reporting from new york found that while the new york state attorney general has conducted forty-three investigations into the killing of unarmed people by police. None have resulted in conviction. Aaron we have thirty seconds before the break. Could you tell us why that is well. I mean let's let's just be clear here in jussie touched on this already but you know. We're nine months since george floyd killing in the nationwide demonstrations over systemic racism. We still. let's be clear. We still have this saying the very same criminal justice that we had a year ago and quite honestly years. We've had it for years for decades there have been calls for communities to to de-fund police and move resources around. And and do us. You know what. Josie just mentioned which is to make sure that there are trained people out there dealing with You know incidences as needed but quite honestly you know until the legal framework for prosecuting police officers changes. We're going to be dealing with the same same system last year. The house passed the george. Floyd justice in policing act. But the senate didn't bring it up for a vote. What are some of the most notable parts of that legislation. Well some of the a lot of people have described it as a sweeping the most sweeping legislation on police reform medicine really ever been introduced In in congress and it's it's really attempt to undo undo some of the provisions of the nineteen ninety four crime bill that vastly expanded You know policing in america and also mass incarceration negate. It brought us. Math incarceration as we know it today. So some of the george floyd Justice and policing act provisions calls for the justice department. The federal justice department be able to subpoena police officers Directly for pat a pattern of practice investigations If you're not familiar with that term that's a term That that's a know investigation. That was done on ferguson. After the death of michael brown same jacobo and some other some some other cities around the country Another provision they want to ban no knock raids which is You know that that procedure or that that act You know became very popular or very well known As far as a popular call for reform After the death of brianna. Taylor and louisville You know there's there's a the chokehold ban as that's also Being a part of the. George floyd justice policing acts Of course we know the case of air garner here new york city but we also You know now. Know the name of george floyd because of the restraint whole that was placed on him for More than eight minutes out in minneapolis. So those are just some of the provisions. There's when i say sweeping. I mean there are a lot. I don't wanna go through all of them. But those are those are some of the things that that that the federal Lawmakers are really considering the the there there are something signs among civil rights and activists that Even still doesn't go far. And gus. So i want to talk a little bit more about the biden ministration in a second but first jury selection is set to begin next week in the trial of derek. Chauvin the officer charged with second degree. Murder of george floyd aaron. What will you be watching for. I think you know generally speaking. If you've ever you've ever covered a criminal trial Jury selection can either be very dry. More can be pretty Revealing about the either sides Strategy going into to the trial. So i'll be watching. won't be minneapolis. Well certainly be watching from a fire and we've got a p My colleagues that there will be covering it real gavel-to-gavel all day long but but you know You know i'll be. I'll just be looking for any signs that we we can the prosecution or the defense is tipping their hand about what what sort of defense they're going to use or what what What jury they hope to assemble. And then you know. We're we're talking about two weeks from now opening statements And then from there. We're looking at probably three to four weeks of of a trial And that will take us towards the end of april so we could have a verdict in the endeavor children's trial You know before the one year. Anniversary of of of george floyd steph Jesse do we have a sense yet. Of how the biden administration and the justice department are thinking about police reform. well Like erin said we know that they are have supported some too much fan that that that is a step up from legislation. We've seen in the past right. We know that they've despite they plan on reinvigorating And investigations from the doj that they plan on Trying to impart some sense of of Of accountability and in an office got hasn't actually believed in holding the police accountable for the past four years right but as far as far they're willing to go They are not willing to go. As far as many advocates would hope or even as close as any advocates hope right and so not only for example. Do they pose moving funds away from police into other social services but biden's actually called for investing three hundred million more dollars into quote unquote community policing efforts. And we've seen in the past that community policing as an idea. has not been very successful has resulted in over policing of already over police communities right instead of ensuring that those communities have The resources they need a school's jobs The ability to put food on their kids table's and other resources rather than more police But but you know it's an important thing to remember too that while the executive office such the tone for the entire nation of how we think about police and police violence the control that the executive has over police actually quite minimal You know federal dollars can federal grant money definitely some oversight from doj absolutely But overall this is a local issue. It's a state issue And i hesitate to give even too much attention to the executives. Power over me. Because i want people to that. They are holding the right officials accountable talking to their city council talking to their mayor talking to their state legislature about policing and policing balance in the thirty seconds we have left joe see are there. Specific policies that advocates are pushing for on the level that they want their local authorities to take up. Yeah i think across the nation. There is a is a move towards trying to move police resources. Elsewhere right You know there's been a lot of conversation about defunding the police. But the case of daniel prude's death really emphasizes the reason that for example we should not be having police answer mental health crises calls. We not put police in charge of addressing poverty. We should not have police out. There punishing people for not having a home. We recognize that policing as it as it looks. Today is drastically broader than Than any of us would would design if we were designing a system right. And so how. How do we imagine. What policing glued look like. And how do we think about that joseph. Duffy rice is president of the appeal. Aaron morrison is national race and ethnicity writer for the associated press. Thank you both so much. Thank you the word. Justice is nonexistent. As we just heard the killings of george floyd ahmad arbery and so many others have made us reflect on what justice looks like the us today for many black people and other people of color. The justice system has long been unequal. Leaving some to wonder if and how we can make our justice system well just you told us about it in this country. Just richard pryor once said justice means just you go down and look for justice as what you find just us. As long as we don't have some form of control we meaning people of color in the judicial system. There will never be just as for us. it will always be unbalanced. It has always been. And i believe it will always be and that's why it's so important for particularly black people in this country to consider as i am getting out of here leaving this country and not moving to another country. That looks like america where we're still the minority because otherwise we would we will never see. We will not see justice. As long as we're living here we will never be treated as properly as we should have been four hundred years plus of this nonsense. The word justice is nonexistent. My name is mary mallory. I live in suburban philadelphia pennsylvania. Sadly justice no longer seems to be finding right from wrong. It now appears to be right and getting away it. So what would real justice look like and is it even achievable for many of you. It comes down to one word accountability. This is reverend ma'am baker. I live in dallas texas. And i believe when it comes to the killings. George floyd mud arbery daniel prude and so many many others justice requires to think that our boats centrum accountability and stomach changes in policing. I feel very strongly about the fact that in each of those three situations and others that the police involved should have been charged with murder in addition to holding individual officers accountable for these killings. A lot of you also emphasized the need for systemic. Change moving forward. Hi this is andrew in kalamazoo michigan justice for me means holding the officers accountable and de escalating the violence in the future. Hi this is cherie vickers from portland. Oregon justice is the judgment conviction and sentencing of their killers immediately and beyond those individuals. Simply being held accountable. Justice looks like policies and practice in law enforcement agencies that make what occurred illegal and in instances like that of a ahmad. Aubrey removing antiquated laws. That allow for their ridiculous defense. Tactics used by lawyers to get them acquitted Jury trial change to the laws for self policing your neighborhood and accountability jesse for mobile alabama. What does justice look like for. You let us know your thoughts by recording and sending a voice memo to take away callers at g mail dot com or you can go to the takeaway dot org and click. Contact us to record your answers straight into your computer or your phone. We always love hearing from you so be. It are show during november elections. Many states expanded access to ballots because of the pandemic months later. We're now seeing over one hundred new bills up for consideration across the country as part of the push to roll back that expansion and today the supreme court will be hearing a case out of arizona on one of the most powerful sections of the voting rights act if the outcome in this case limits the scope of the voting rights act. That could make it harder to challenge some of the voter suppression. Laws in the pipeline. Here to break it. All down is grace panetta senior politics reporter covering elections and voting for insider grace. Welcome back to the takeaway. Thank you so much for having me also with us is me of not bet is director of the brennan centers voting rights and elections program. Miana thanks for joining us. Thank you so much. I'm excited meeting that. We should mention that. The brennan center submitted a brief to the supreme court in the arizona voting rights case arguing that the court should uphold the voting rights. Act so before we get into the details of this case. Can you explain what the voting rights act does. The voting rights act has been the crown jewel of the american civil rights movement it sets forth protections for voters that way they know when they step in the ballot box. It will be free from racial discrimination. In voting and for more than fifty years it has provided some of the strongest protections against racial discrimination in twenty thirteen. The supreme court weakened the voting rights act by mothballing a particular provision that was really important to protecting voting rights. And today the supreme court will be hearing another matter in which The petitioners and certain amity have invited and in fact encouraged the supreme court to further weekend the voting rights act. We are hopeful that the supreme court will not do that. It is coming at a time where we need protections against discrimination more than ever and it's coming at a time where some people feel emboldened about restricting access to the ballot. Yeah and grace that case before the supreme court today. Can you tell us a little bit about what it's about absolutely so this is a couple of cases that are being consolidated. For an hour of argument they're coming out of arizona and in two thousand sixteen. The democratic national committee dnc filed suits against to arizona. voting policies passed in the legislature. The first is a policy that stipulates that any provisional ballots that voters cast in the wrong precinct. Appraising they're not assigned to that it's not their own will be rejected even votes for statewide races of the ticket. That any voter in the state is eligible for and the second law that is beat. The is being challenged here is a law. Banning third party ballot collection ballot collection drives are really key tool in arizona because so much of the state's electoral votes by a male and a given election and so the dnc challenge these laws under section to the voting rights. Act contending that resulted in the denial of a bridge or richmond of the right to vote for voters of color under section two of the voting rights. Act they i lost in the district court in a panel of the ninth circuit but the on bunk ninth circuit reversed finding that both the laws did in fact violate section two and that. The ballot collection policy was in fact created with discriminatory intent and now arizona's appealing that to the supreme court. And can you explain. What section to the voting rights act is absolutely so section two prohibits any denial or abridgement or discrimination of voting specifically for racial minorities and language minorities in the united states. And the way that congress has construed this law as i did not only covers cases of intentional discrimination but it should also cover cases that result of laws or policies that resulted a discriminatory intent so section two has been used by both the department of justice and other plaintiffs to challenge both discriminatory vote voting scheme so and the redistricting context with schemes that dilute the weights of minority voters and also against certain policies so section two is a crucial part of the voting rights act especially since the legislation was weekend In two thousand thirteen as you mentioned miana supreme court ruling explain again what happened then and why sure in twenty thirteen. The supreme court considered a crucial part of the voting rights. Act called section five or sometimes known as pre-clearance break clarence is just a fancy way for saying that before an election change is about to be implemented. It needs to be certified in advance that it's not going to make minority voters worse off or that wasn't enacted with the hopes of making minority voters. Worse off section five applied in jurisdictions at had histories of racial discrimination and voting. The supreme court decided in two thousand thirteen that congress had not looked at recent enough information to decide which states and localities had to comply with the section five pre clearance requirements. And once it and so while we have pre clearance or section five on the books. We don't have it operating anywhere. It's kind of like imagining that. You have a really strong beautiful shiny powerful car but it has to sit on a lawn and so section. Two as grace mentioned has been doing a lot of the work that section five use to litigators like myself have been using section two across the country to try and stop restrictive and discriminatory policies. Because we don't have the tool of section five anymore and the concern today is at the supreme court is going to take up the invitation that the defendants and that the amici have put in front of them saying to further weaken the voting rights act by weakening limiting section too. I do think it's important to note that this could be a very straightforward -cation of law to facts. The supreme court could decide that it's merely going to examine whether or not the acts on the ground in arizona violate section two of the voting rights. Act and what is i. Think particularly dangerous is the very naked assault on this bedrock protection for the right to vote. They are being very loud and very clear that they want the court to weaken the protections and so even if the court declines to do it the fact that we have really powerful forces in this country trying to make it easier to get away with discrimination is something that we should all be concerned about especially when we see. That's anti voter activity in the states. Grace talked to us about the broader context of what is happening in many states around the country in the of the two thousand twenty election and how that relates to this case absolutely so as brennan center research has found they've put a really excellent guide laying out the landscape on voting gloss and state legislatures around the country. There are dow hundred sixty bills seeking to restrict voting that have been filed in state legislatures the country the wake of the twenty twenty election which is a significant increase over the number that had been filed around this same time last year and while not all of them. You know we're gonna pass or even make it through committee sort of signals where certain legislators priorities are and in many states including arizona which has legislators have filed many many bill seeking to restrict voting. This really has significant implications for how all these laws could be challenged. Because as i mentioned section to has become one of the main tools of litigation that litigators have used to challenge laws that are discriminatory and so if the court rules for example that section two should only be applied to narrow circumstances of vote dilution schemes or if they say that a narrower test should be used a higher threshold if they rule that litigants have to prove discriminatory intent or somehow make it harder to bring these claims back could make it much more difficult to challenge some of these laws that have a disparate impact on voters of color. Meaning that one part of today's cases about requiring election officials to discard ballots cast at the wrong precinct. Why our communities of color especially impacted by this to be very clear. It's not a question as to whether or not these kinds of policies whether or not this policy in arizona is discriminatory and the facts presented that the ninth circuit found very persuasive. Were that arizona had a history of moving around precincts and so especially in communities of color and they did not provide appropriate but and they did not provide appropriate training poll workers as to what people should do so you would have a limited information voters going to polling place. That wasn't in fact there and then they cast a ballot in the entirety of the ballot would be rejected. That's why what the defendants and what the amick you're asking. The supreme court to do is so incredibly outrageous this is not a nationwide referendum on whether or not people can discard ballots. Cast them in the wrong precinct. It is whether or not this is a problem. In arizona under section two of the voting rights act and we should be appalled that there are some people asking the court to consider the constitutionality and consider the strength of section two of the voting rights. Act when we're really just looking at what is on the ground and what is happening in arizona. Grace some are saying that this is the most important election case in almost a decade What makes it so crucial. Yeah what makes it so crucial. Is it strikes at one of the last remaining billy strong federal election law that protects minority voters As merely mentioned earlier now with the pre clearance under section five of the voting rights act gone the crown jewel the civil rights movement. Its power has really been diminished and away specifically by the supreme court and the other reason that makes it so important as that you know in the past year especially with all the election cases coming out of the covid nineteen pandemic. the supreme court hasn't been the the friendliest arena for voting rights advocates. And when the case of this magnitude in this significance it could not only have an impact on how these cases can be good nationwide and make it more difficult challenge discriminatory laws but it could also signal. You know how the court is going to continue to handle these issues and it could make lead against in this case think differently about what cases they wanna put in that pipeline up to the court. Grace panetta is a senior politics. Reporter covering elections and voting for insider and the fittest is the director of the brennan centers voting rights and elections program. Thank you both so much for being here. You're having us thank you. The takeaway is supported by feather. Did you know people who live in cities move six eight times before. They hit their early thirties. That's why there's feather a furniture rental company designed for people who want to feel at home no matter how often they move their delivery team brings furniture rugs lamps wall art and more directly to your home in as little as seven days right now. Feather has an exclusive offer just for the takeaway listeners. Go to live feather dot com and use code takeaway for five hundred dollars off your first month that's live feather dot com promo code takeaway for five hundred dollars off. The takeaway is brought to you by progressive one of the country's leading providers of auto insurance with progressive. Name your price tool you say. What kind of coverage you're looking for and how much you want to pay and progressive. We'll help you find options that within your budget use the name your price tool and start an online quote today at progressive dot com price and coverage match limited by state law. Puerto rico is part of the united states and its history as well as the realities of puerto rican life today remain largely untold a group of body gua journalists have come together to create an anthology of stories called lebedeva stories about the puerto rican experience. A new podcast series from wnyc studios and budo studios available in english and spanish. Subscribe to lebanon wherever you get podcasts i'm rebecca url filling in for ten vega. And you're listening to the takeaway for years. Puerto rico has faced crisis after crisis and last week a new podcast was launched to help us understand what these many crises mean. An i here or you lavaka. I'm referring to the struggle. The struggle coastal putting in and the hacksaw hotdog la brea has to deal with everyday life. I call it cody. That sort of nci determination survival work. I'll wait to do something and circumstances that don't let you get ahead grinding. Geno to do i. How is it when someone asks me. Where are you up to how you doing. I'm cruising along with nominee Searching continually searching for something showcasing true puerto rican brilliance. That's from la brea a new podcast from wnyc studios and food doodo studios. It tells the stories of the puerto rican experience and it couldn't come at a better time as puerto. Rico continues to rebuild from recent natural disasters and struggles with a mounting debt crisis. And we're happy to have alana. Casanova burgess host of liga here via manila. Hi thanks for having me. So what exactly is laboratory. What does that mean well. It's a word that exists in spanish but in puerto rico we use it in a very specific way and we also use it all the time so it refers to struggle That you have a challenge. Something that you can't really solve but you have to find a way around it so you have a little edge of creativity to it We might say if somebody asks you how you're doing you might say again love data and it has a lot to do with tone as well you know. You don't really have to say any more than that means. I'm not doing well. I'm not doing poorly but you know i'm just here trying to survive. It can also be playful -lica- oh my god. That's so cute nope weather. Oh god i can't deal with that but in this term in this podcast. Were really trying to interrogate. Wyatt is that we use this word so often to struggle. Yeah so when making a podcast about puerto rico. Why did you decide to call it. Lowered brea Honestly the the name came. After all the episodes we realized that these all had individual. But i guess and collective So we have people really at the heart of every episode of every story were telling but then they all also speak to a collective struggle that someone has whether it's to try to get public healthcare in via vegas or to try to negotiate the federal bureaucracy around the debt crisis or even island status. These are all vegas and the word just comes up so naturally in conversation in puerto rico that we and among the diaspora here in the states that we wanted to pay cash to that alana. This show is so puerto rican but it also actually reminds me of mexico my hometown or really any country where citizens have had to be resilient because the state has failed them and and then this resilience ends up being worn as a badge of honor. So did that come across to you in the people you've talked to. And why do you think that is. I'm so glad you said that because it is something that we've been thinking about a lot on the team after muddy s especially. There was a lot of talk. A lot of celebration about puerto rican resilience and as we mentioned in the first episode. You know that can kind of get a little nauseating like meyer. Why are we celebrating How difficult it was and continues to be after media to survive in puerto rico So yeah we we've been trying to think also data is good right when it's good to be creative and survive and find your way And meet a struggle and when just labra guys too hard and maybe we need to take a step back and think more about the systemic structures that are making life that way. Let's breakdown one of the major themes you cover in the podcast. Walk us through the relationship between the us and puerto. Rico how how has it evolved. In recent years well some people might not realize that For thirty goes colonial status actually has a particular name. The estado lebron. So seattle the free associated state and that is a status that was created in nineteen fifty two with a new constitution for puerto. The rico And you can kind of hear it in the name. Right is now the seattle. It's not a state. It's not free but it is associated and we actually have an episode about how that is really a guy that hasn't been working recently right in the idea of decolonisation as a challenge. That couldn't really be met head on. So there was a sir creative but aga- of the aila the establishment also seattle and in recent years. We've we've seen the debt crisis. A recovery in quotation marks from hurricane maria the pandemic we've seen so many ways that that data is not working. There's so much good sound in this. Podcast i wanna play some so your team found this great piece of archival tape for the podcast from cbs. In the one thousand nine hundred seventies. Let's listen sixty percent of puerto rican families are living on incomes below the federal government's poverty level sixty percent of puerto rico's inhabitants. Need food stamp. Help whatever the past virtues of the island's relations with the united states today's troubles raise some basic questions about this system in the future and some argue flatly. It no longer works tells about this piece of tape so that that piece of tape is from nineteen seventy five and we heard that tape. We realized while the end of the conversation that has been going on around status with puerto. Rico has been stuck in the same rut for for decades and lately we've seen protests on the island we've seen as as the takeaway discussed last week A tax shelter in puerto rico for people to move there like logan paul for example. And we see that the conversation around status is really stuck in the same place. We're just having the same conversation over and over again. That piece of tape from nineteen seventy five could have been aired on. Cbs yesterday one of the most fascinating episodes concerns the independence movement On the island. Can you tell us what that episode is about. And what exactly are alaska us while less got bit this. It's a word for folder but in puerto rico. It has this very particular meaning because it refers to a surveillance program that ran for decades on the island from the forties until the eighties. Where people who were associated or even associated with people who were associated with the independence movement would be surveilled by secret. Puerto rican police in collaboration with the fbi and if you were interested in in the independence movement for example you could be blacklisted. From jobs they might call your professor at the university and warned them. That you are a troublemaker. That you were dangerous with your ideas and less betas We have an episode in the series is about what happened when these folders were actually returned to the people who were surveilled and a lot of the personal relationships that it strained when that came to light. This podcast is bilingual. Which means you are releasing all the episodes in both english and spanish. So it's fourteen episodes total. Why did you decide to do this. Well there are so many. Puerto ricans in the states. Who don't speak. Spanish of. And they're obviously puerto ricans on the island who do not speak english and then also these are just great stories for anybody to enjoy so we thought that it was important to have both languages represented And to really not leave anybody out of the conversation. Alana when it comes to telling stories of puerto rico and about puerto ricans. What did you learn while making this podcast. That other news outlets or media can do differently. You know every episode in this series is reported by different puerto rican journalist and they are all experts in their fields. They're experts in what it means to be puerto rican from their perspective. Obviously there are lots of perspectives and so we really tried to center what it means to tell our own stories And i think that that's important matters to the takeaway matters to lots of news outlets but the fact that it's something that still mainstream media really struggles with i think is telling were hoping to bring the diaspora and the island together in this effort with the podcast alana. Casanova burgess is the host of brea from wnyc studios and fukuda studios. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts alana. Thank you so much for joining us. Gas becca and that's the show for today. Folks was such a pleasure being here with you and of course give us a call if you have any thoughts or show ideas at eight seven seven eight might take. That's eight seven. Seven eight six nine eight two five three or send us a tweet at the takeaway. You can also tweet me. At rebbe era see we can also take your voice memos record them on your phone and email them to take away callers at g. Mel dot com. Thanks so much for listening. I'm rebecca uvira in for tenzin of ak- and this is the takeaway see you tomorrow a.
Case 160: Beverly McGowan
"B? Fifty two's be Buffon's are on a mission to find the very best to be anywhere on the planet every month they visit a different country find the best small batch breweries sampled that funnest craft to be and carefully curate a case to be sent to Dan Lucky members. It's a hard job, but one has to do it all done remotely right now Judy Cove it, of course. This month is Germany to celebrate the world's biggest be festival October fast. Be Fifty two was locked to invite you to celebrate from the comfort of your own home with a free case of eight German craft cheese all you have to do is go to www dot B. fifty, two, dot com slash case file, covent five, pound, ninety-five postage, and doll deliver them straight to your door. Most of the bees have never even been seen in the UK there's no minimum commitment. You can just type the case, try the bees and say what you think if it's not the you, you can pose or cancel anytime just go to www dot B. fifty, two, dot com slash case file to claim your free case eight craft to be is now. That's www. Bay Five two DOT COM slash case file. Era, besides do serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel it anytime, you need support please contact your local cross Santo for suggested phone numbers confidential support place a shy nights for this episode on your APP or on our website. On Thursday July Non Tain Nineteen Ninety Florida resident stays McGowan received a letter in the mail from his thirty four year old sister beverly. This siblings had lost spoken on Sunday July Fifth Dane when stave cold beverly to save shoe would block to draw for a visit. Shea had declined saying that she was too busy. Their conversation was pleasant and ordinary nail four days later, stave was mildly surprised to find beverly had sent him a letter out of the blue. The brave note contained the following message. I just want to say goodbye to you and the kids and let you know that what I am doing is the right thing. This is what I need at this point in my life. So don't worry. When I come back, I'll will be much better and happier person. Beverly was the youngest of the three McGowan children. Hailed from Philadelphia but had all relocated to Florida Little Library Decade Oleo Beverly lived on the coast in Pompano beach. I. Sister. Jane lived eleven miles north in Boca retired. Stave. Resulted in central Florida. Like her Bra. Jane also received a cryptic farewell letter from beverly. It detailed her decision to make some big law changes in order to go traveling. She wrote of quitting her job in selling her condo as she had to lay virata away. The lead is made little sense to stave and Jane. After working odd for a long time beverly finally saying happy with by her career and home. Life. She had recently purchased the Condo and was working two jobs to pay off the mortgage. They couldn't understand why she would suddenly give up everything and. Without a proper goodbye. The letters were written in Beverly's handwriting from a notepad she kept in her home. Both what postmarked Wednesday July eighteen and was sent from the city of Miami about thirty seven miles south of Pompano beach. When Kohl's to beverly's homefires to connect. Jane visited a police station to report her missing. There was little could do as the lead has indicated that Beverley had left of her own accord. That not. And Jane had to Pumpkin Pie H to investigate the matter for themselves. Arrived at Beverly's home and upper level apartment in a two story condominium building. It was one of many similarly designed complexes that lawn south flagler. The long quiet straight was situated on the cost of a dense neighborhood. Beverly's Condo was compact. It faded two bedrooms and a balcony that I've looked at the residence park. Upon arrival stave and Jane notice the beverly's Red Volkswagen Fox wasn't in its usual parking spot. She wasn't home, but it didn't appear as though she had packed up and left for good. There would dirty dishes in the kitchen sink a knockdown had been left on her UNMADE. Bed. Clothes were in the closet and strewn on the floor. Although there were also Sohn's indicating that Beverley had no intention of returning. The telephone had been disconnected. The answering machine kept along at was gone. And there was no trace of beverly's two pet cats. Steve and Jane rummaged through some drawers and discovered beverly's address book passport and Birth Certificate where Rosa? Missing. Stave contacted Beverly's employer at Glendale. Federal Bank to say whether they could shed any light on this situation. Beverly worked Monday to Friday in the banks loans department, but also had a second pot Tom Jaw but goodwill a nonprofit organization. Stave was told that beverly codeine sick on Wednesday July eighteen the day before he received her good bilateral. This was unusual given beverly's reputation as a responsible and reliable employees. During the coal, she had also asked to speak to someone in the bank's mortgage. Department. After she was transferred through, Beverly said she no longer wanted her condo and requested to foreclose on it. She was told that she would have to send telegrams to verify a request. A telegram was subsequently received. It also gave the bank permission to dispose of the personal belongings left in her time. Although the circumstances were strange stave began to believe that he sister had just left without a proper explanation. He lodged a missing persons report with the local authorities and also had beverly's credit cards canceled. He hoped that cancelling the cards would hinder travel plans and make her angry enough to reach out to her family. On the evening of Thursday July nineteen, thirty, one year old Jesse moorhead and he's Nice. went out to catch bait for bass fishing. Day arrived at a wide irrigation canal located one hundred miles north of pumping I h in a remote area of Saint Lucie County. The canal leaves rage to Vira dirt track, and he's boarded by an unkempt grassy embankment. One side of the waterway empties into the Saint Lucie River estuary. The other laid SAF to the site sperling tropical wetlands the Florida everglades. Just off the seven PM. Jesse was walking alongside the canal while he's nice. Waited nearby he's car. On the embankment he spotted. Today bag of rags and went to inspect them. Upon realizing what he had actually discovered Jesse Rice back to his car and contacted the police. Investigators from Saint Lucie County Sheriff's department arrived at the Canal and headed to the location described by Jesse. Their Divan the delighted remains of famous lot out. She was dressed in Jane's as single, what Sandal and a pink floral shirt that was bunched up around her neck. She had been killed elsewhere before her body was dumped at the side. There was a gaping wound on her abdomen though what's cool was was unclear. At could have a deliberate injury or the result of post mortem trauma to the body as alligators populated the. Canal. The killer had gone disturbing lengths to prevent the victim from being identified. The hands that Bain were moved and she'd been crudely decapitated. Body parts would not found that the side. Despite this a pivotal clue had seemingly gone unnoticed by the perpetrator. On the victims ride ankle hidden under the cuff of her, Jane's was a small. Of a yellow rose. A description of the Tattoo was released to the local media and featured in news reports on the crime. Stave McGowan was at home when he's telephone rang at around ten am. On the other line was a friend of these missing SISTA. Beverly. She'd just heard the news of the woman's body found in Saint Lucie County. The victim had a tattoo of a yellow rose on her right ankle. Just locked beverly. The following day stave and Jane drove to Saint Lucie County to speak with investigators. They provided a photograph of Beverly's Rose Tattoo but declined to view the mutilated body as they found the prospect to distressing. The pair were nevertheless certain. The woman was their sister. They told investigators that Beverley had another tattoo just above her waist lawn of a rub it from the animated Disney Film Bambi. This tattoos location matched the victims abdomen wound. It appeared as though the perpetrator had cut out the rabbit tattooed to hinder the identification process but had missed the Rose Tattoo. The decapitation was also imperfect as a portion of the victims lower jaw still remained. A dental expert compared a tooth and filling from the remains to beverly McGowan's dental records. Four days after Beverly Siblings received her body. Lettuce, Shay was officially identified as the woman found by the Saint Lucie County Irrigation Canal. A medical examiners struggled to establish a cause of death due to the severe mutilation. Beverly's Abdomen Tattoo had likely bank KC with a knife while chainsaw was used to remove hands and had. It appeared as though her throat had been cut. But it couldn't be ruled with absolute certainty that this was what killed her. There was also a possibility that she had been bludgeoned or shot in the head. There was no evidence of sexual assault. The last time beverly was saying alive was at were cone cheese day. July. Seventeen. She hadn't mentioned anything to call eggs about going away on a trip. That evening she phoned a friend I chat die had every Tuesday. The next by her employers received the coal from someone they believed to be beverly styding that she was on well and wouldn't becoming in. An examination of Beverly's condo failed to uncover blood or any suspicious fingerprints, fathers or has. There was no sign of a struggle having taken place. The farewell letters to her family were puzzling as they were in beverly's handwriting. There was no sign that they had been coerced. Yet, they ended with the words Goodbye Bev. Her. Sibling. said that beverly would typically saw enough letters by simply rotting her name. They had no explanation as to who would harm beverly old why? She was quiet independent and mostly kept to herself. She loved and doted on her nephews and they depended on her. She wasn't wealthy and she didn't have any problematic relationships. Devils life had been marred by tragedy. At the two boyfriends were killed in separate car accidents. She started dating again to move Vaughan but would end relationships when they became serious. Stave. Elida heard rumors of he sister exploring her sexuality during her early Thirties. Hey described her as someone who traveled to the Bait of a different drama and believed she was only about looking for love. Despite her traumatic past stave was clear that Beverley had recently bane at her most conten-. He did report one concerning incident. Awake before beverly disappeared, she told stave about an unsettling message left on her answering machine. She didn't recognize the male colas voice. Hey was recorded saying. On No way, you'd live and dot com white for us to bay together. Troubled by the message, beverly took her answering machine into work and played it to her colleagues. Curiously the machine was missing from Beverly's abandoned Condo. Beverly valued her privacy, but working two jobs wasn't enough to pay off her mortgage. To supplement her income, she rented out her spare bedroom on two previous occasions. Neither roommate worked out in the long run. The first a woman named Brenda had clashed with Beverly, I've. Aloft. Stall. Differences. Shay was replaced by a man named George. Beverly locked. George. But Hey, left off the several months to get his own place. But Brenda and George were questioned in relation to beverly's Moda but were ruled out as suspects. Investigators also spoke with a painter named mark who lived in Beverly apartment. Complex. The pair had struck up a close friendship and caught up for dinner several nights awake. Mark was adamant that he would never Beverly. Hey. said he was out of town at the time of the murder preparing for a gallery exhibition. He's Ella checked out and mark to was ruled out. He said he had spoken to beverly two days before she disappeared. Mark. Cold to ask if she wanted to have dinner with him that not. Beverly typically accepted spontaneous plans but not on this occasion. Shave rejected Mark Safa explaining that she was going to spend the time with a potential new roommate named Dallas. In early July law beverly told several acquaintances that she'd placed an advertisement for a new roommate in the Fort Lauderdale sun-sentinel newspaper. Applications came through and beverly interviewed several candidates in the wake prior to her murder. When searching her time investigators found a notepad with the list of applicants details. H. Entry fidget a full name, a phone number and an appointment on to view the conduct. There was one exception. One tree only included a first name. It read. Alice Tuesday seeks thirty. Automating Alice Beverly spoke about her enthusiastically to others. She was from London was well dressed drove an impressive car and worked for the multinational technology company IBM. Alice was moving to the area because she had been placed on temporary work judy at the company's Fort Lauderdale Office. Beverly chose Alice as her new roommate. She told a friend that Alice was moving in around. Fraud July twenty. Beverly's brought us. They also knew about Alice. Although he hadn't met her beverly reassured him that she was trustworthy. Beverly, was not the taught to bay suspicious of others and gave everyone she met the benefit of the Dow. Beverly also mentioned that Alice had introduced her to numerology. All of this belief assign numerical values to letters, names, and birthdates. They used these values to calculate when certain events Monica occur for an individual. Allah software to predict Beverly's future using numerology and created a rudimentary chart for her. To complete it, alice required a various numbers significant to beverly's life. Beverly reportedly supplied them. Die included her birthday as well as her social security passport and to draw as Lawson's numbers. Alice attained that beverly would've made a man. She would marry at the age of forty and would come in to great wealth. She'll so provided a warning. There was a man and a woman in Beverly's life who would going to deceive and hurt her. Overall Beverly was pleased by Alice's predictions and shared them with some of her friends. Alice's full identity remained a mystery. Beverly hadn't kept to not of anything other than her first the name. Though the more there was no evidence indicating that Alice had moved in or Raven visited Beverly's Condo. Investigators reached out to why began and told that the company had no English. Working in the South Florida area. They didn't even have an office in Fort Lauderdale. Examination of Beverly's financial statements revealed that on the same day, her body was found someone withdrew seven hundred and ninety five dollars from the eight hundred in her bank account. Her Visa Credit Card was then used twenty two miles from her home to purchase women's clothing and. From. The upscale Aventura Mole Lane Miami. The retail assistance who served the customer using Beverly's cod described her as a striking blonde woman with an English accent. The description conjured images of a toll blonde woman who was currently at the center of a national media spectacle. I ease earlier in Nineteen ninety-two Laurie Ben Benny was sentenced to lock the in prison for the shooting murder of her husband's ex wife. The. Dramatic case became tabloid sensation. Then panics glamorous appearance and status as a former model made her something of a celebrity. Days before Beverly McGowan was killed Ben Benny had escaped Wisconsin based prison. When shown a photograph of Laurie Benny, the Ray tile assistance and Ventura mole identified her as the woman who had shocked to using beverly's credit card. But theories that beverly might have crossed paths with the convicted killer was soon dashed. Ben Benny had actually fled north to Canada. She was not in Florida at the time of Beverly's Moda. The authentication of Ben Benny had been sure a mole was declared a mistake and the late dismissed. On Friday July twenty the diaw after beverly's body was found. Her credit card was used again in Miami this time at a travel agency cold thunderbird travel. The Qods Hoda appeared to be a man dressed as a woman. They wore oval shape dog losses, and to shape looking short black wig with a fringe Disgra Desert Cleopatra's style. They spoke with an English accent and introduced themselves says sand. Apparently Sam claimed to be headed to London in two days time on British Airways flight two, nine two, and use the beverly's credit card to buy an abyss Cahora. The Heathrow Airport. Records from Beverly's home phone number revealed that someone had called Ibises Hey throw office the day before the voucher was purchased. Investigators were unsure whether the same person was the blonde suspects accomplice or the same person wearing a disguise. Then that was alice beverly's mysterious roommate. It was believed Shea had played a role in the plot. Her numerology exercise was thought to base game to obtain beverly's personal details and steal her identity. This theory was supported by the killers efforts to prevent beverly's bunny from Baying. authentified. Sam The wig wearing man in possession of beverly's credit cards had said he was flying to London on July twenty two. If it caught the fly, then he'd already escaped overseas by the time investigators uncovered. He's involvement in the crime. Sajjan David Brooks of the Saint Lucie County Sheriff's department lighted described the rapid pace that which the bazaar investigation unravel. He said at felt as though police, which is the step or two behind the killers. The detectives pursuing the same laid obtained passenger logs from. British. Airways flight to nine two as well as other flights on route to hey thrive on July twenty two. Beverly McGowan's name wasn't listed on any confirming Sam hadn't used her passport to board. A search of the surrounding area led to the discovery of beverly's red, Volkswagen Fox in the parking lot of a nearby motel. It had been there for five days. Fingerprint powder filed to uncover anything worthwhile. But for his from synthetic, a black, a wig with founding saw. British. Airways. Flight two, nine two arrived at Heathrow Airport on Monday July twenty three London Thanh After the plane landed a passenger with short black hair and devotion dog losses approached the Avis. Hayek Service counter. They had reserved the car under the name Beverly McGowan and handed Iva beverly's Dravis Lawson's to confirm that booking. Beverly had doc showed a length hair and wore glasses. The person standing at the desk looked like her. The ibis clerk requested credit card to pay for fuel deposit on the vehicle the customer handed either Beverly's visa but the payment failed and the cod was declined. Shay explained that she must've over. Her limit and paid for the deposit with cash instead. In actuality stays, McGowan had cancelled beverly's credit card by this point. By the time detectives in Florida Land of this filed transaction, the customer pretending to be beverly was long gone. As the credit card was no longer functional, it's transactions couldn't be used to track them. Investigators were certain that they cast them out was the suspect from the Miami Travel Agency going by the name San. Though there were discrepancies between witness reports as to whether same was a man or woman. Sam's arrival in the U.. K.. Meant they were out of the jurisdiction of American law enforcement. The Florida detectives found the London Metropolitan Police's Criminal Investigation Department for help. Detective Joan Cooney Sh agreed to assist with the foreign investigation. Hey spoke with Davis and ordered staff to direct the suspect to their nearest office should that getting contact? Police would then be dispatched to the location to await their arrival. Later that wake. Sam Contacted Davis. They requested to extend extended their lace and witold visit a nearby esophagus. Police staked out the location but SAM never showed. A backup plan was devised wherein officers would line wight at Heathrow airport on the date. The car was Ju- To Bay returned are the die arrived and Metropolitan Police whited imposition. Once again, Sam didn't appear. Around Morning Sam's cow was discovered abandoned several miles away from the airport. It had been wiped two fingerprints. The police realized they were dealing with the criminal. He knew exactly what they were doing. Suspecting that Sam was flying back to the states detective Cornish his team to board every America band fly that day to inspect the passengers. No one matching seems description was sawed it. They had lost their only late. Little progress was made in the case over the following year. On November Thirteen nineteen ninety-one beverly story was featured on an episode of the in Bay say television program unsolved mysteries. Stave McGowan appeared on camera and made a personal appeal for information. The unsolved case was taking its toll on everyone involved. Sajjan Dave Brooks had been investigating beverly's off from the outset. He went out of his way to Cape a beverly loved ones updated on the investigation status but was burdened by its roadblocks. One night he visited Steve McGowan and broke down in tears. Languishing. Investigation was eventually scaled down. Some those involved continued to look into the case whenever possible to try and develop new leads. The biggest clued today was the passenger manifest from British. Airways flight to nine two which left Miami on. July. Twenty, two, nineteen, ninety, at six, thirty PM. The suspect known only Sam had not used the beverly's passport to board the flight. So I must have booked a ticket under a different name. Investigators looked into the flights two, hundred, forty eight passages but ran into jurisdictional issues when examining individuals who did not reside in Florida. They sought assistance from the US Department in Washington. D Say to identify the Non Florida passages. Every passenger name that couldn't be traced was submitted to be run through this system. They had debate compared with passport daytime styles and the process would take a used to complete. Five years off the beverly McGowan's murder a Florida detective named Raina Crowning shoot was assigned to the case. Shea continued to look into the passage manifest alongside Nora Fafa an investigate off by the state's attorney. Nora had been involved in the case for years and remained demotivated to say it solved. In January, nineteen, ninety, six, the women received a name from the US Department that they had identified as significant. Sylvia and Hodgkinson was a British citizen who occupied sade eighteen say on flight to nine to two. Possible, Fed, I showed an adult woman with dark hair and eyebrows. Her Birthday was listed as July twenty, two, nineteen, sixty, four. Sylvia's origins with Trist to Lewisham a Berar in southeast. London. Her Beginnings were humble and she had received very little education. She later married a dairy worker, but hey, passed away in nineteen eighty five. Sylvia then lived in a shelter for women experiencing homelessness. Less than a year after her husband's death, a passport was issued in her name. Investigators suspected that someone else applied for the passport after stealing Suva's identity. As they were unable to fund Sylvia's current whereabouts. That she had been killed as well. The State Department determined that the alias Sylvia Hodgkinson was associated with two other names, Charlotte Ri- Cowan, and Elaine. Antoinette parent. The three identities would taught together following an incident that occurred almost one year after beverly McGowan's murder. On Wednesday may twenty two, nineteen, ninety-one, police north. Have purged a woman in a rental The vehicle had been laced more than six months earlier in Los Angeles California. It was flagged as the Ju- for return and was fixed with a stolen. Lawson's play to conceal its origins. The Qasr female lucky pen was a toll redhead. Shia defied herself as Charlotte Rae Cowan. Shade provided offices with official. To verify her identity. It was clear Charlotte had been sleeping in the car with her two dogs. There was several weeks in her possession as well as a Dari. She also carried multiple lie descartes's. Displayed her photograph but featured the names, syllabi a Hodgkinson and Elaine parent. Police took Charlotte into custody on the charge of failing to return a leased vehicle. She was held I've annoyed and posted bail the following day. A court session was a hell on the Madda. One of the arresting officers was in attendance. When it came time the Charlotte County one to face the judge a woman stood. She had short strike red hair and was aged in her thirties when. The arresting officer was stunned. 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And seemed too sophisticated for the bar they were in and Charlotte was surprised that shake caught the attention of such a glamorous person. Nevertheless she accepted the drink. Depend chatted and after a while and raised the subject of numerology. She told Charlotte that she would love to create a numerology price fall for her then asked for Charlotte's birthday. Charlotte supply the information. She also provided her Tom of birth social security number and who drove his lesson stay tiles. In Rhode Everything Dan on a Napkin and made positive predictions about its future. In an interview with a British newspaper, The Guardian Shala lightest cited. She had the most sophisticated manner she was so persuasive. And didn't talk about herself much. She did say she was mending a broken heart after a relationship with a full my girlfriend ended badly. At one stage, a blonde haired man entered the Bois. And Tell Charlotte that hey, was her brother and said she had to go. Before leaving, she asked for Charlotte's phone number. In cold the next day and the pair arranged to meet up for lunch. Charlotte's mother was present for the meal and was equally impressed by an. Several Deitz followed and Charlotte eventually met ends Bravo. Hey was nicely dressed and well mannered as he SISTA. Overtime contact between the women faded until they fell out of touch altogether. A couple of months later and cold Challah to say that Horon Dot and had left her a significant inheritance. In was required to split the money with her brother. She. Claimed that he'd had her committed to a mental health hospital so he could cape the entire amount. Approximately, a month after this call in appeared on Charlotte's doorstep at Three Im. She was wearing a fake moustache, a wig and means shirt and tie. Distraught and sobbing in explained that she escaped from the hospital where her brother had her admitted. She was now on the run from her family and needed Charlotte's help to get away. And Begged to borrow Charlotte's birth certificate so she could create a new identity for herself. Charlotte initially refused but relented when ain't grew increasingly distressed. And promised to return this the ticket soon. Several. Weeks tossed with no word for man. Charlotte began to worry. Then a letter arrived with her birth certificate enclosed and a note from in apologizing for the delay. Charlotte never heard from her again. A few years. Later, he made nineteen ninety-one. Charlotte received a summons regarding a traffic violation in Miami. Baffled. She went to court to resolve the meadow. It was quickly discovered that the era was due to the actual perpetrators stealing Charlotte's identity. Charlotte knew the person responsible was the woman she knew as informant tre Mont.. Now that two of their suspects identities were found to be stolen investigators turned their attention to her third eye Leah's Elaine Antoinette Parent. Locked the this parent was a real person. Though little could be found about her early life. She was born in New York City borough of the Bronx on August four, nineteen, forty to. Her mother was French Canadian while her father was American. The couple had no other children. But the time she was not out Elaine parent was fought foot seven inches tall with naturally dark hair and blue eyes. Her white varied between one, hundred, forty, and one hundred and fifty pounds. At Age. Thirty, she relocated to Florida where she initially lived in an apartment in the village of La. She later moved into a house in Dade, county. For Time Parent worked as a registered real estate agent. In Non Taint six parent was arrested in Fort Lauderdale Fish. Shoplifting. As a result, her fingerprints collected and stored on the police system. then. In nineteen ninety five, she stole approximately forty thousand dollars worth of jewelry from an elderly woman she knew. This was around the same time parent became acquainted with Charlotte Cowan. Parents fingerprints compared to those taken from the woman apprehended in Nineteen ninety-one for failing to return the Hayek car. They were match. The woman pretending to be Charlotte. Cowan. Was Indeed Lane, parent. She was released on bio but never appeared for her day in court. There was nothing to indicate that Elaine parent was a stolen identity. Luck Sylvia. And Charlotte Cowan. Investigators believed parent was the true identity of the elusive suspect in the beverly McGowan case known previously as SAM. Parents Criminal History Aligned with the circumstances leading up to beverly's mode. The numerology scam, the stolen personal documents and the use of scars. Yet beverly's case was the only nine instance in which parent had apparently killed the person whose identity she stall. Investigators Confident Parent was the woman nine Dallas Beverly accepted as a roommate days before her death. But they had yet to directly link parent to Beverly's. Murder. The evidence in the Miguel case file was ray examined to fund connection to parent. This included the farewell lettuce beverly had sent her siblings. They were pen don a notepad from her condo. The handwriting was hers and they didn't appear to have been written under duress. The decision was made to carry out forensic testing on the NOTEPAD itself. An electrostatic detection device also known as DA is a piece of equipment that can reveal indentations in paper that may not be visible legible to the human eye. These intentions are made when someone has written on another piece of paper that was previously on top of the paper being examined. Asked the testing of Beverly's Nari Pad revealed that it had been used to compose other pieces of rotting. The hidden messages were painstakingly replicated revealing handwriting that was not beverly's. Ed Appear as though the author was running to a woman whom she detained in an intimate relationship with. But they had since potted, the messages were hostile in nature with one excerpt rating. You will feel the repercussions are guaranteed. After your treatment and abandoned may have no remorse in tearing down what in truth are created anyways. Give me back my life. The lead is compared to samples of Elaine parents handwriting. And they matched. A forensic psychologist named Dr Barbara Coe and profiled parent for law enforcement. She later told the makers of the documentary. The world's most wanted woman that the letters were consistent with a rage filled and highly manic psychiatric state. The lead is parent road where addressed to a woman in London. Shea was the senior executive for an international. Blue Chip Company. Upon this discovery detective, Joe Cornish of the London Metropolitan Police raid joined the investigation. It had been about six yee's since he's had tracked the suspect now known as Elaine parent after her arrival at Heathrow Airport. He almost intercepted her, but she managed to evade capture. Detective. Corny. She interviewed the woman parent had sent the scathing letter to. In order to protect her identity, she was given the pseudonym witness acts. Witness X said she met parent on a trip to Miami during the nineteen eighties and the pair had struck up a romantic relationship. In nineteen, ninety, five after parent was sought by police for stealing jewelry. She fled to London and moved in with witness X. The couple's relationship soon deteriorated. Parent was prone to aggressive mood swings. She could quickly change from being calm and easy going to violent and temperamental. She threatened witness ex's live and attempted to emotionally blackmail Couple broke up in nineteen ninety and parent returned to the United States. To, witness XS surprise parent returned to London short wall laid off at the end of July. She was driving navis. High car. Parent persuaded witness to rekindle their relationship but the quickly sale it again. When they split first second time parent placed an advertisement in the personals column of London's time out magazine. She wrote that she loved wine and was a gourmet cook who owned an excellent collection of Capo cookware. Three months after returning to London parent kidnapped witnesses, sexes, two dogs, and flew back to the US. Back Home Parent sent witness x a death threat made of lead his cut out for newspaper articles. She also try to demand a ransom for witness XS to dogs. They were believed the bay, the same dogs found in her possession when she was arrested in Miami in May nineteen ninety. One. Witness XS information allowed investigators to fill in numerous gaps in parents history. Investigators nail understood that she must have met. Subbiah Hodgkinson, within her first year of living in London. Somehow, she managed to obtain enough information about Sylvia that she could take out a passport in her name. It was suspected that parent had stolen the identities of other vulnerable and unsuspecting persons. She had also learned to imitate a convincing English accent allowing her to trick people into thinking she was British. By. The end of Nineteen Ninety, six, Florida's State Department had filed charges of possible fraud against Elaine parent. But they had no idea where she might be hiding. Her name was released to the media in an effort to generate leads though investigators stopped short of naming her as the suspect in beverly McGowan's murder. Saint Lucie County sheriff from Bubby Knowles told journalists. This sheriff's Office believes she may have vital information about the disappearance and the murder. She may even have first hand knowledge. No viable tips emerged but investigators were still managing to unravel parents history. There was evidence that she had moved to the state of New Mexico in Nineteen Ninety one and worked there as a restaurant manager. Afterwards she moved to Tennessee with a famous friend and good a job deceased department store. The last confirmed sighting of parent took place the rebound ace data in. Nineteen, Ninety Four. A full McCoy Lake from sees spotted her on a road just south of Nashville. In Nineteen Ninety Eight, the television program America's most wanted Ed a segment about lane parent. It was accompanied by a photograph of her with short black hair. She was dressed in a crisp watch and foreign gold jewellery. A resident from the Florida city of Saint. Petersburg was watching television at home when the show head. The moment she sore. Lame parents image. She immediately recognized her. Patricia Nevins was a church minister who new parent has obliged to blonde by the name of Sandra little. Although the woman shown on America's most wanted looked quite different to the post and Patricia. Knew she had the same shake sense of style Patricia Meadow Lane parent masquerading as Sandra little in nineteen, ninety two. Parent. was destitute and living in a Saint Petersburg showed how for people experiencing homelessness. This city of Saint Petersburg is on the opposite side of the state from the Atlantic coast parent had previously lived. Patricia roughened to let Parents Stein her spare bedroom and to the pay lived together for almost a year and a half. During this time parent as Sandra little filed a civil negligence lawsuit against the state after she slipped in a restaurant and injured herself. She won and was awarded an undisclosed a man in damages. Parents evenings was spent watching both the local and international news. Once a week she watched the latest episode of America's most wanted. Patricia described several peculiar incidents that occurred during her time living with parent to the makers of the documentary. The world's most wanted a woman. Parent had once told her that the only way she could have proper. LAV would she had another identity? Then during dinner, party, parent mimed cutting off guests hand to obtain. He's gold bracelet. Patricia. Arranged for parents to speak with the psychiatrist. Later in boomed Patricia, that parent was an extremely intelligent budding sociopath who would aleve Patricia life as quickly as she arrived. Prediction came to pass when the two women parted ways in nineteen ninety-three. Five years later. Patricia Sore. Elaine parents photograph on America's most wanted. Following the television appeal a strange letter was delivered to the St Lucie Canny Sheriff's Office. It's envelope aboard London Post Dan and to contain to post cod. Image Saad featured a print copy of annoying painting. It depicted an older version of a lane parent. She was wearing a blue and green one pace bathing suit and Paul earrings. Hair was grey and style in the same short quaffed Amana that parents often chose. She was shown climbing out of a swimming pool. The back of descartes featured a taught to message that read. You will chameleon annoying sketch by PA? Best wishes. And legible signature was scribbled alongside the message. The postcard coined the toddle Elaine parent would come to be known as The cameleon Killa. Forensic Psychiatrist Dr Barbara Cohen Later told the Telegraph newspaper that parent crave the attention of the authorities as much as she feared it. Quote. The oil painting, he's very theatrical. Believe she sent it to law enforcement as a way of thumbing her nose at them of sort of teasing them by saying. On the live on well, look gap for me, but you'll never find me. In February, Nineteen, ninety, nine, the case featured on the television show world's most wanted and it soon, Ghana international attention. Unconfirmed sightings of parent were reported across the world in places like Turkey France Australia and South Africa. The press dubbed the fugitive. The world's most wanted woman. In April of two, thousand, one Saint Petersburg Resident Patricia Nevins was preparing a special dinner to celebrate the holiday. She headed out to a same club supermarket in the nearby town of clearwater to purchase ingredients. The stool was part of a members only. That required customers to register their details in order to shop there. As Patricia made her way through the store she spotted a woman she recognized. It was her former roommate Elaine Front. She had gained weight since Patricia had lost sane her almost decade Olea and her hair was longer and Daca. Aware. There was a global hunt under wife Apparent Patricia began to race. She drew closer to parent and for a Moment Patricia quickly looked away. When she turned back. Parent was gone. Patricia reported the soldering and at the supermarkets member database was examined for lane parents. Day Tiles. The information didn't exist and parent alluded investigators once again. One year later in April two, thousand, two parent faded on another episode of America's most wanted. After the program, Ed a number of Kohl's were made to the shows tip line from. Panama City in Far North. West Florida. Multiple Colas claimed that parent was living in Panama City's affluent neighborhood of Saint Injuries Bay. They identified themselves as neighbors of hers and were able to provide her address. A representative from America's most wanted promptly informed authorities. Three police offices headed to the address. They arrived at a modest single story house and knocked on the front door. A middle aged Brunette woman and said. She was dressed in silk beige coloured pajamas. The offices provided a cover story telling the woman that they'd received annoym- one one co from the address and will following up to make sure everything was alright. The woman introduced so Fez Darlene Thompson and. A military or day that featured headshot. She looked nothing lark the photographs of line parent that the officers had sane. They thought that the tips does modify Bain mistaken. She was asked to accompany them to the station for questioning anyway just to be certain. Darlene. and asked if she could get changed I. The three officers waited outside her bedroom as Dr Lane headed inside. While she was gone one of the offices examined dot lanes on day more closely. Pay had a military background and was familiar with the appearance of their identification cards. Lanes, are day was missing a crucial stam to verify its legitimacy. The officer knocked on Dr Lanes Bedroom door to address the Meta and she called out. I M getting dressed. Suddenly. A gunshot rang on. The officers rice into the bedroom and found DA lane lying in a pool of blood. There was a wound in her chest and a three fifty seven Magnum revolver in her hand. She died at the same. Dr Lanes fingerprints were collected and on Monday April light it was confirmed that she was indeed Elaine parent. At emerged that the house where parents had been living belonged to another woman. Parent had been renting I bed bedroom since August two thousand one. Her roommate described her her somewhat hotta with a passion for cooking gourmet meals. Parent had told her that she worked at a telecommunications company downtown. The roommate had a Pekingese poodle cross named molly that parent walked 'twas day. She said parent would take the dog to nearby parks and chat to other women as she strode. In contrast to this description, a Naboth told reporters that parent kept to herself and made no effort to be friendly. Quote. would. Great her and she acted to lock she wouldn't acknowledge me. On, knocked on her door one time to warn her about a man wandering around offering to do people's yards and she wouldn't come to the door. A search of the Saint Andrews Bay. On cabinet a candidate. Florida. As Lawson's with parents photo, but the name of the woman she was living with. Investigators also found and number of passport applications. Parents closet was packed full of weeks and both men and women's clothing. There was a book on learning French and another about stage make up. Some of parents acquaintances mentioned that often saw her working on her laptop. Thought, the device was never recovered. knoll was the Dari that parent had in her possession when arrested more than a decade earlier as Charlotte. Cowan in Nineteen ninety-one. A notepad contained information about a man from the boss city of Lynn Haven including he social security number and credit card details. A desktop computer contained Dada useful for making fake ID's. There was also an FBI most wanted a star that parent appeared to have crafted herself. It showed her passport I with the name. Antonia Race Almond. It noted that she was wanted for murdering a government official in Washington DC. Room. Panama, City Police Come on Dr Mitch Peers. Later speculated that parent created the post to intimidate someone. Many unanswered questions remain aimed following the death of a parent. Law enforcement agencies believed she had up to twenty different identities that she used around the globe including the United States the UK Turkey Israel France and Africa. Some suspect she moded more than once though no victims Assad from beverly McGowan have ever been named. Three years before parents death investigate Nora. FAFA told The Guardian. The brutality of the Miguel and murder and the Wayne which the body was cut up leads me to think that a person capable of committing something like this has already done the same thing in the past or may do so in the future. A birth certificate for Elaine Parent has never been found suggesting that Elaine parent could have been another fake identity. Opinion has been divided as the whether parent worked alone all with an accomplice. Some speculated that parent could not have killed beverly then mutilated and disposed of her remains without help. Charlotte Cowan Meta Blonde man who paren- had introduced her brother. In the days after Beverly's murder, her credit card was used by an individual in black week and dark losses. Some witnesses described this person as male while others thought they were female. Others were certain this individual known initially as Sam was Elaine parent donning discuss to look similar to beverly? A number of investigators who have studied parents actions don't believe she would ever collaborate with another person. Harvard Psychologist Maria Cova has been extensively about Coronado tests and says that they commonly exhibit psychopathic and NAS Cystic traits. This analysis is consistent with forensic psychologist. Dr Barbara Cohen's profiling of parent. Shea. His theorized that parents stole identities to quote. Fill up the emptiness of her own personality. She described parent as a consummate CAANADA. Highly, adept at raiding her victims and targeting their individual and personal. Vondra. Elaine parents living victims expressed relief upon hearing of her death. For, almost two decades her form partners witness x and Charlotte Cowan lived in fee that parent would harm them. Investigators couldn't say why parent killed Beverly McGowan and none of her other nine victims. In the documentary, the world's most wanted woman beverly's brought us. They've explained that hey, carried guild for cancelling her credit cards before her body was found. At the time, he believed that he was doing the right thing. That would prompt. He's to rate. Yeah. Yet, he inadvertently cut off viable means of tracking her Killa Occasionally staves grave would overwhelm him. He could be brought on by minor things such as hearing a particular song on the radio while driving his car. This sorrow and the lack of closure remained along long after beverly's murder. Quite. It's Bain eleven years of wondering why. A main. You'd do say stories in the newspaper and you read them and think what a tragedy but that would never happen to me that could never happen to my life. And then at does. And boy. Does it wake you up?
The Head Angle #1: Matt Holmes
"We're live and welcome to the head angle podcast. We've been talking about doing this for quite a while. Now time to get it get started on it. So tonight's we have a person that lot of you being makes people out they will be familiar with. And if you not familiar with him, you probably under the age of twenty or you'd be under a rock for your whole life and not really paying attention to the world. But tonight. Yeah, very special guests, the one and only legendary Matthew poll homes how you doing good to be here. Good to be stuck to get this thing role in. Let's do it. Hell, yeah. Now, I guess Matt safe to say that you've been pretty much a very large part of behind the scenes stuff in these giant banks seen the last twenty five plus years. Yeah. It's yeah. You've you've done a lot lots, and I guess get started in. I guess how the hell did you find beim X, man? Pretty much the early eighties. BMX is pretty big back. Then. I lived in a place in Vitoria co bala-, right? We moved up from Melvin. And it was right at that age when you had to get around, and I was out of the city. So the only way to get around with Bach. Be was cut of. I could have everyone is rice and BMX and Rodney BMX is. So yeah, gotta be an expert. Yeah. Perfect. That was ever racing. You know that I beam expert Ministro. That was a long track when I was really young right out to it. I think we went positive content. I road to a weekend light it with a friend took his hours, and then watch the rice, and it was so heavy 'cause people line eight of the time. And then it was bang and voicing. It was philosophy yappy next cool racing. I guess never really my thing. But the right out to a spot like that. And all the stuff you've out on the way. That's what that's what stock also on the rod you'd be kinda charge from seeing like that energy pedaled you head off everything tough enough in. Mainstream media like AT was like eighties. You know? And it goes higher on a bunch of crew in that getting away from the FBI Rodney's HARA KAO one. Yeah. I mean, I just new car. I think what else. I mean that air is a lot of movies coming out, you know. Trading cards, and we talk it's you know, being some of those. You know, and you walk into a box shop back then and those road bikes those family likes like like and kids bikes, then though these crazy things with different color ties and. Exits pretty RAD it's like a cinch. Like sensual overload, you know, walk into a box shop like that. And just seeing stuff everywhere and saying, you know, the collars the patents graphics from back in the day, like very striking lightning bolts, and that sort of cool shit, you know, so maybe too much pastel colors. That's awesome. Well, gee is to be ex-. And thanks for coming on a man. That's crack one of these bad, boys. And. Yeah. Thank you, man. Start. Much like yourself one of you know, west finest. Yes. I guess moving on from that initial introduction. Obame ex. I mean, where I mean had you kinda get proper addicted, and I guess, you know, I guess you grew up in. So what was things like back, then I mean. Yeah. Moves from Ballarat, Victoria, Adelaide. And it's funny, man. Like how to be a max I had a mount mug as well. Because my parents never going to help me get another BMX it needed to to get around. We're up in the hills validates, you know, stay to get round that'd be a buck. But it was rat throughout rather than BMX. But actually, would it really hit the whole free cell thing. Big time with them travel back to see friends Christmas. Friends, and then a court train Danamon grandma. Got into China in the way, home from open. And this did on the platform with like. Sick. Bam X never seen before. We'd like wtop chewed and yet helmet crazy. Full face helmet. I wasn't Jaffer on it. I can echo or something bell Moto three or something. Nice. And yes, he's bag and pads hanging out of it and just off and extra BAAs. I'm like what the hell is that doing like, that's Nali? Anyway, I went up and talked to him ended up being really cool dude called Tammy store. We lived in bell. Right. And I never knew him when I lived there. But I was filling out about I'd just run stuff, and he just made into a calm and just talk to him on the train away, home and. Yeah. This is a whole host shit, man. Let freestyle in strike who's rod rants and jump stuff. And so I ended up going back to Adelaide stayed in touch with him back. Then your cats someone letter because internet didn't exist. Ends up. I went riding with him. A couple of months later when stayed with him and just write everything about at red couple ramps. They had and I was like holy crap. I didn't really have much to ride at the time. I had reached pock which is big Vert ramp massive one and Fulham gardens, which was a concrete park with tot bowl. And then a cap show bowl which was only about five four to five foot Eddie Chen. But really fun and we say capture ball. Let's not today's over the full pop captured. Tablet. Yeah. Chemists? And then had done diner down the end. And there was some Kulon transferring between some dude shredded those cool, but I'd same as pretty tight back then so conservative mid to late eighties. Those big flatland crew crew you wrote a lot of flat as well. Which is right everything because you go rod on a sat down Sunday when you went to school when you'd ride to meet crew in a couple of cruet Moscow road. So we would buy out from the hills Blackwood from Blackwood high would dumb down the hill and. Right. Everything on the way that was drains with Dutt jumps to ride. We don't be next tracks. Yeah. Couple of drain stood drain was pretty massive pretty cool spot. I would ride down going abroad flat with some dudes and. Cruise around your head back to the city could ride to another place the L drain those good riding in the city was fun. Man. Fuck like says Olsen. It was a coup. Sane one hanging out rawdon everything. Yeah. It was cool. And Amanda real happened really FOSS because. Yeah. Man. I yeah. When I suddenly realized it was more rod isn't just up in the hills, and the thing and the rock and roll instead food will the schools have danso, it's kind of whacky dealing understand it, but it was color, graphs. Yeah. School would be into it. Some, you know, the Pink Floyd the wall, and we just the video or something it'd be it'd be kind of wacky. It'd be like just school talent question dad's kind of maybe I should do something. I don't know anyway. But it was on telly right thing Adelaide, and I'm school comes out one of the schools that was a long way from where we were and on these dudes right out on Mazdas and doing tricks in the middle of the performance, and I was like holy crap. Who those slick blond hair flat tops in the out of California vision street, whereas something I was like holy crap. There's more rods than. Delayed. Ended up being a dude code Simon Hoyle another Scott, and that will cool dudes met them a couple of weeks later. Was it? Good same. What what Ye reckon that was roughly. Eighty be. Idei monsters. So yeah. Yeah. There you go that arguably. Yeah. One of the I guess I guess the second half of that free stall initial freestyle boom when I guess things started getting a bit more progressive the coolest part about that time. Was there was people starting to really rebel against uniforms. Like freestyle dudes, having the way the rice inspired Ghia and be dressed like that. And act like that and be professional dot. And the best thing for me was street. Rawdon was starting Craig Grosso, suddenly doing grinds and stuff. And it changed everything, you know, suddenly you've got a couple of go from the the local news agent or manual those Freestone we could get Freestone then and that was finishing up. But we hadn't us up in the hills bad, but we would go and stash BMX MAGS BMX plus Freestone, and then perform became go. That's about it. Then and would hod them behind the MAGS might stash. And then you white a month. We'd not money. I didn't have any money. And then they'll check them out cut the Moscow up the Bach Oto for something. And then Chuck it in the bin. And then we because we used to ride flat and had jumped ram in this. Cock and you go get on the MAGS of this. So. Probably took three months of the MAG stripe. Probably another month to get it. But then you would see what was going on. And the change was epic. And not that was big thing to suddenly. It's not just flatland and ramp this crazy him it's crazy street going on. Everything started happening. So that was a good time, man. I mean. Yeah, I definitely miss down in that era. So I mean, definitely an appreciator of all the stuff, and you kind of wish that I was there to say all that stuff. But it sounds like what a time to be like an exciting time to be new to something. Like, I mean, even I hold era when I first started writing steel very day to me like I mean ninety five ninety six wacky time for BMX. But at the same time, I look at videos and MAGS and that year, and I just steal get so excited know the. You know, the blacks borderline beat wacky starting to get wackier. But I still I've read magazines from when I first started writing, I still love it so much just the aesthetic of and everything even though I feel like the eighties easily nineties sort of Fe phasing out of the freestyle uniform stuff and into the kind of wearing street. Clothes obviously, Ron Wilkerson was sponsored Harrow clean cotton uniform guy. Then all of a sudden, he's. To here doing the street. Calms punk rock attitude. Sturdy feel the just fucking RAD potty shit, you know, so so yeah. And that kind of evolution and feel like that sort of like he's mentioned I kind of rebellious sort of era. Would it be just fun as hail to be in the mix? So. So you can do anything. I think you'll like cool. I'm just gonna go with this. What can I do on this black? Yeah. Cool. And I guess you kind of just kept kept rolling with it as you as you grew out of your teenage years and kind of started. Yeah. Man stuff. Yeah. Like, it was your hod 'cause the last year school, it's real hard because just want Arado the time and actually left topics of the year because I just wanted to ride. My mom and dad it but by out on school and just just went rotting all the time. End up being messengers. Well, but just rawdon BMX weekend and Rodney during the week to get paid go to travel the country ride with crew epic. I went back and through school next year. Okay. But yeah, like you just wanted to run. Good. And you I mean, you would being in Adelaide at that time and again being not super close, but close to giant like Melbourne who would have had a bit more going on for a lot of trips to Melvin for. And stuff. Yes. Yes. I first compensating Melvin Blume a mind like go see my grandma quite a bit close to hearing in Melbourne and down down. I think I heard it on public radio that those a free still come on cry. When is it, you know? And I mean, that's how you found out about stuff and then. I'm gonna go to it. So I'll just jump on the overland the train with my black shovel of not gets Melvin a ride from the station to grandma's, which is in just nip around, and then I'll fall away to none of wedding. I dunno. None of wedding is. But the train that goes this. Oh, just go. Yeah. Just turn up. I map in you know. Isn't any wasn't any funds? Google maps and maps made a paper. Yeah. And tickets paper shit. Yeah. Man trips to Adelaide Hussein. But you wanted to wanted to see more people riding. And go to that the skate ranch comfort, not a wedding one Benda KOTA pop and flatland calm in a roller skating rink. National. I was luckily I right into some crew that helped me out. So it was that time when you were like at a petrol station then like dudes and a cop pulled up with. Yeah. I jumped off the train at not a wedding, which isn't right next to the station's right next to comp was I just knew it was at a roller skating ring. And I'm it's early in the morning. I wanted to get early. I'm sat at the petrol station. Eating nuture out of the box on just putting milk into it. Sly bomb kid cerium stopping and then do the putting petulant icon walks up to me where are you from? What are you doing? What are you for? And of course, I ended up pointing is Lindsay Brown, and Dave Scott jumping in the car with them. And they into the comb so that was pretty cool. That's a lot here that the small, you know, I mean it was a small crew. So if you want from somewhere, I guess you didn't stick out, but people will ride. I mean was always that saying that you could always tell a rod or a skater back, then from you know, a couple hundred on the street, and you'd probably end up being friends with them because they went that many. So that was a coupon. Right. Yeah. So exciting. I'm sure and then I guess, you know, carrying on. I mean started figure out like your path. I guess you're Arctic side. I guess if following through with your the things you like to do jury and graphic stuff and photography. You know that sort of thing. I guess how'd you wand up starting to do creative? The BMX creative stuff. You know, you did Zane when you're younger. Yeah. Always wanted to make stuff like. I could never really separate in my head to difference between learning to do trick. But it flatlands on ramp on a jump. That creative process in your head trying to work it out and your head. What the puzzle I've had to do it felt the same as hot wanna scope something. Pint something Jorde come into ended up going to an art school and going to Uni to do sculpting just doing crazy just really alcohol marijuana appreciation pretty much, but it was fun had a real guitar. And always wanted to make stuff, you know. And. Always wanted to shoot photos of my friends and the crew I rode with document, and then my screw it, man. Like, I remember I had a subscription to go magazine. And you know, you subscriptions running out and send you little notes and stuff don't mass printed ones. But. I remember looking I'm just going to write him a letter. And how do you start a magazine, you know, what I mean? What I mean? It's right up. I wanna make Emag frustration. And and I sent me a little back Lumine mock Newman sent a letter snail mail. I mean, it was man you have to send a money order to get the subscription seed Rodney lead. I put the money will go to the post office, give them the money. And then that would give you this check looking thing, you send it, and then just any more money orders his men, but a few months later, you'd get a magazine in the mail, and some stickers and be like vesting ever. And you see what the hell's going on? It was cool. But yeah, I just read a letter signed. Yeah. Wanna start a MAG and he's back on? Yeah. Chuck some stuff on some pages. Photocopy whatever I can't remember off. I think I've got it. Anyway, I got aunt and made a Zine pretty much a month later, you know, just two photos ahead, friends and stuff would been doing and just hand wrote things cut it out drew pictures cut it out in the stuck it on pieces of paper. And then when a friend of mine do roadblock as a career we bought messenger. He had trouble snap, pruning, and he had the case off two hours. You wanna print it and on and I made fifty copies that's the best and then active, and it was black and white, but we kalpa on cover. So those I think ten red ones and the rest of green. So it was called. Yeah. Just one of the magazine could abandon and at the same time is that in my head because I didn't add on the back which is a handwritten during the dude with the shorts and a t shirt on. And I see a little clothing company sort of alongside it because I figured if you had Zane had the MAG design the clothes, and and the sane and try and start running events and deal the scene taught into guests make it happen because no one was doing anything. So what just go do it? Didn't know what I was doing and how how long can that lasted for doing Zane? How many have you can you did? Well, the first one was just go to Bandon. The second one was reckless abandon the third one was called Dutt actually because I had a lot more jumping in it because we're running a lot of dick jams, and I laid. And finally, the English BMX MAG ride started a mountain bike my man took my name, man. It's so it was funny. Well, yeah, it was just like do. It yourself attitude if I can learn a trick on a bike. I can learn pretty much do anything fucking what a what a good outlook. It's awesome. Mean we can't do it. But I guess enough to abandoned I guess you kind of. You would you find doing any jobs in terms of? I guess. Print media or creative stuff. I'll just. Bark messenger. If you use the union at school and did a clothing textile coz, and how to my clothes and patterns and. That was cool, and I was just a block messenger because I could just ride occasionally I've read BMX easy might much money. And you get out of spots in the the people you've worked for so bad. So it's just a messenger. But then I moved to Melbourne. Just to be around Maradas in Rodman. It's got there. Just become block messenger. And I worked in a botched up part time. But. When I was a messenger. It was right. Because I'd being a lot of a lot of businesses. A lot of law fans in crop. Also walked into a lot of ad agencies design firms, and there's just one place I dropped Jobson Postles out on a Friday. And every day. I was talking to one of the girls, it was working on a computer on a MAC, you know. Oh, you know. How do you do this with Photoshop 'cause I had a MAC I have a few years. I was trying to making Zane on it and trying to look at how to do stuff on it. And I'd be asking how to do something. Like, how would you do this? So how would you do Photoshop? Well, how do you change the color and shit like Shami bids? And it's just one Friday and audit drops in working for them got signed off. And the boss was like, you know, how to do some of this stuff. You're always interested. Can you tonight? And I was like what? Now, I said. Well, now still got two jobs on those like thirty or forty bucks. With the limited before six I was to be back here at six thirty. Yeah. Sure. Coming sides came in did some work and that kind of led me to getting a job. With a company that did scanning and running the film the of ways of making stuff going to the printing presses. And I did some way out and was like man, I'm gonna learn how to do this, right? Yeah. It was crazy because you're just in the right place at the right time. And I remember. Melvin as a as a kid. My brother was playing basketball at some crazy basketball tournament with like three or four days or something. And I just started riding going to black show 'cause back then seek out black shops and safe the had to mix blacks or whatever. And there was like a free sort of like newspaper print sized magazine called freewheel. Yes. And then those that those off shoot of that with free will be mix and yes lighter. I come to realize that you actually contributed a bunch of stuff to that. And you worked for for those guys, I wouldn't co- works. Stuff firm. Yeah. A lot of stuff from. But. Yeah, I learn a lot from working with with the gods. Free will without him. Yeah. Man. Like, I mean, that's funny itself. I mean, that's the reason I moved to Melvin actually that's the whole reason moved to moment. I went up to cans ninety six for mountain biking vote championships just to see to writers. And to see the pinnacle of that sport downhill world champs. Sean palm os racing BMX. It's Toby Henderson, Mike king. Pistol pete. Hot of one man the list of who are in mountain bike back. Then, you know, no one really got the cross between pay mex- mountain by everyone is now. Caught flack from that and black, but I read mountain box on a remix. I never saw the difference different tool. Some people drink beer, and they can have it to kill them after this is not the different tools for the job. Totally. But whatever. Yeah. So I was up in cans, and I ended up doing a little riding headed north with a couple of friends, you know, checked out the world champs. And we went camping and run bucks for the north. And it was a great time. But I met this guy had a magazine up. There was shooting some photos, and I haven't Zane, and it was like a wanted to do more. And he goes off every moment come into the office, and you know, probably get a job amid Melvin as soon as got back. Just like that straight go. Yeah. And I mean, it was good. I always wanted to go to Melbourne because it'd be more ride BMX and money and just more opportunities and Adelaide nothing against. Brought biggest city brought lights moth situation is. Yeah. You know? So went to Melbourne. Got my head into working out. How to might MAGS by working with with free will and then working with an automatic company with an amazing grant who had a publishing publishing house. You had eight legs. And he became a mental to me, Darryl Maggs. Jewelry, MAGS industry, MAGS cars and stuff and whatever. But I got to learn how to make MAG with him and studio and all the different people and. And he was amazing because he let me I said 'I'm wanted to start a MAG which was called twenty twenty and his you wanna start a MAC, and it's about this thing you love and show him stuff. And you'd be like this is amazing because his key. You can use the place off two hours once was shot coming anytime, you can use those scanning equipment, you can use the computers, and you can use the film, which this is the biggest thing you had to run film to give it to a printer to get printed doesn't happen anymore. An expensive process. And on you had to use the equipment. So that's yet headstart. So I wanted to start twenty twenty and I made a MAG, and then I had facilities to print oh and not the print it. But I had the ability to give get everything done without having to pay much money. You know, what I mean, I could pay the contributors. Yes. Twenty twenty was born from. Begona Melvin to learn how to might MAGS, and what I guess when you actively decided that you going to actually sit down you're gonna start making an actual magazine, you want there's going to be seeing you gonna do with the next period of your life is going to be making magazine. No, no, no sat down and went. I'm gonna make I magazine one one just well, I'm gonna make magazine. It didn't didn't go beyond that the thought process wasn't there. I was run blacks. Learn how to do this thing I'm gonna make a MAG properly, a American magazine or English magazine. And it's kind of my friends in it. It's gonna have crew that nuts, and I think a better than in America. And don't be out seeing what I didn't. I didn't think beyond one issue. And well, I gave credit cards credit card. Yeah. He's he's the film. Can I get can I get a MAG and print is looked at me. Like, what do you mean? He is the film on on wanna get five thousand copies. How much is going to be? Fucks kid. What does he do? On pay us goes you'll have to give it to his credit card. There's five grand on how much is it gonna cost? It's gonna be more than that. Like. Good his credit card and just put the deposit on can you print? I didn't know anything. You know? Luckily, Adam free will he helped and spoke to distributor, and you know, got a shitty deal with the distributor. Got ads in the MAG somehow ringing on people cold cold, but people in us through writing and calms, you know, as I had my hoops, you know, I've met a lot of people at comps and just people came on board, you know, and some companies came on board, and I quickly learned which is why I got a second issue out. And then a third one didn't come out because I was that much money, and I didn't add to chase it and people will just gonna pay you. Luckily, some people did and people that I dealt with for the history, you know, the whole history of the MAG, but some people burned some bridges. Oh, yeah. Whatever, you know, you learn. It was a big learning curve. But in the mazing one like making a MAC, and I'm doing it with a stack accrue that I've ridden with. A lot. So yeah. When when issue one came out, and you got to like, hold it for the first time and make you see in print glossy magazine like you just fucking pumped mind Benda it sat in my head. It has sat on sketches notebooks at his sat in rolls of film. Not pro not printed 'cause it's all transparent soon. And it all sat in a computer. And suddenly come together and. You can get in a newsagent. And I'll never forget, I know our member vividly get buying. She one being at was about ninety eight. Maybe somewhere in the non yet. And I was at school, and we had this dude in my class, Nick limb, and John will remember Nick plume? He was like a mountain bike kid. Wasn't really a mountain black kid. He just he just had a mountain bike, and he thought XBox little Dom used to fucking bucks. Doug amount, black rod of Roxanne shit. Anyway. One job Raphy auto know teachers away had a substitute teacher. Everyone just running amok doing whatever I say, Nick, pulls a magazine average bag, and it's issue one. And I'm like I'd somehow heard that maybe twenty twenty was going to happen or had come out or no how I'd heard that. Maybe there's a new new alsi MAG didn't even that I didn't realize Sydney. Me. There was lockout hostile nineteen ninety eight Joe graffiti fulls period and this kid Nick shot at Nick plume, he's around somewhere. But I'm like where the fuck did you get that? And let me read it now, please he's like piece off, Tom. I bought it from Knowlton street news agency. I was like holy shit like ditch next class. And I got I got seven bucks in my backpack. And I went and bought issue one, and I was so stoked, and I was like because I'd heard, you know, growing up in a west, you know, had mach daily and team Lynch and a couple of rubbed obese year. That will like the five goes, mythical legends. Eat hear about you'd see around and seeing photos of these dudes in glossy print MAG and just being like, this is so fucking read that's red and. So I guess the stuck issue on you like, hey, I'm going to going to do another one. Yeah. Everyone this. This guy right here. Yeah. Believe cover. Yeah. What's w w way grandpar- show that. Yeah. Epic. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Duct was good. Well. Yeah. So it's like people sent lettuce. I hadn't Email address, but not many people use Email in ninety eight. Google didn't exist in ninety third. Google wasn't around. It wasn't a company. Even fathom that now like I mean, obviously, we leave through time before that. But twenty year old BMX is out there. No time before Google. That's it breaks. It. Funny thing is. The house of the made that magazine had foster internet, and you can get in Sydney now. Oh my God. I lived in a crazy house amazing to Simon Haswell pretty crazy votes. Gator and other very good friend lauch verdict. Amazing snowboarder ended up being VPN globe. Crazy, creative household of my him. Somehow they put up with making a BMX Meghan there. Which is good and win win about move to Sydney, then issue to came out. Any non Agha's? So ninety nine. Yeah. Yeah. Man like. Got two issues out. And then I was owed a bunch of money and just couldn't fund it issues. Three didn't come out by ages. And it didn't come out, and I was living in this house Abbott park with those guys, and we had a mass something messed up in the power system and blew out like a couple of blocks input. Melvin and fry house so to computers fried the lights tellies, everything if it was plugged into the wall just got blown up. It was like I saw lost issue. Three pretty much back then hydros about one hundred twenty Meg. But whatever kind of expensive too. Yeah. I mean, it's the same cost is everything is now that's funny. Anyway, it was kind of like it's such a bomber that was it is twenty twenty five whatever I would get a job. But ended up getting a payout from the power company. And yeah, I was crew got to new max and Scana boy scanner than I had you know, what I mean 'cause I just had to replace so cool setup. And then I was wondering what to do had the next one happen. And I got rung up by this guy from Sydney coz me out going. Hi, I'm Neil. I work with a map big publisher. A he trouble getting maga- out. I like what you're doing. Would you like to work on another magazine that's called manual? You know what? Why not? So they flew me up to Sydney that Friday. Can you come out for an interview? And I was like, yeah. But it's fair way. Because not I'll get my secretary to get your fly Friday. I at cool. So that I'm went off on Friday said an with Andy from Johnny Bach. Andy Wiegand, good friends still. Neil. Rejoice think he runs counter is now. With them. And they said, yeah, we want you to design out there the debt by magnum like, oh, yeah. I don't know much about magazines BMX. And I was like I've got a MAG that I wanna get out. Your can you help me get it out? Eventually pot of it'll and it always seems really cool. Yeah. And they offered me the job and how much I'm going to get paid. No said some dumb figuring out. What not we'll give you this much? Yeah. Moved to Sydney to that. 'cause I'm gonna learn you know, online how to do it. Right. And I might have helped me get the MAG up. I went from that meeting was in mourning and Haymarket in Chinatown in Sydney. Oh, Cal get a bus of Beijing going to die to get ram like. Just hang out until I was flying back now and that not. So I went down. I thought it was bundled coochie Sanyu. I just went had the ramp. Fucking beat wrong wrong bus, man. Get the beach. It's quite funny. A sitting I suppose Sixpack Coopers, and I'm going to say what do I do? I love Melvin. Kinda just broke out with a girlfriend. I should just move to Sydney Heo, screw it. I can line. You know, it's like the next progression alone. How to make media it's bio to Sydney, and I'm sitting at Kuti and dudes is down next to me goes can I be these big American, dude? And I'm like sure, what are you doing man just drinking by self because one stop the launch gonna make decision man. Like Scott off at a job. I'm from Melvin talking during these drinking of you with me. And as Rick and hilarious because three other sit down so get drunk now coming out of us anyways up being pennywise knit. Throwing so end up going on a bender with them. Hills days I workers gloveman willing going Intel whoop. Two or something. To iraq. That was hilarious man in the absolute prime fledged as a big and seven and stuffed at hack hacking down criminal lay and like boating with them, and I really friend Brett Stanley who shot a few covers twenty twenty. I don't random acquaint interview. He was shooting it, so you know, him and just had a ball. Anyway, I come back to Sydney about three days later. Haggard same clothes, and I working to aim at with I've been off the job going to speak to kneel and the receptionist city map pretty blink place. She's looking at me what? The new comes down to you know, has going like, I really. Yeah. I mean, I want to job, and it's like what the fuck even doing. I just had a crazy few days. But yeah, I really want the job, you know. Can I get a flight home, Mr.? Anyway. So yeah, I ended up moving to see me start off to that. Like that was near the end of the year. It was like November. And I had to come up a couple of weeks later pacman stuff up this kind of Sydney. I had to get a MAG up before Christmas and then to find a house, and I ended up being a west. And remember the first time it you shot to Harry hill who's another local. Yeah. West one of out street dudes back then he was fucking kill it. He went to Glebe high went to lockout high hooked up with him through Glebe ramp Humpty ramp that crazy many they one day became friends, and we're just we're going to rotting rush street, whatever and is just being introduced to pigs the time fable, they'd just fuck around on and off just gonna go. Joe see this guy, I met see what's to come rotting. Okay. Roy long rough straightness. You know on the door some Random House in real street, and you answer the door. And then he's like, this is this is Tom this is this is Matt and I was like fun. Hi, Matt fucking homes, and then we ought to know fifteen fourteen fifteen sixteen summer and Ed Dom kids like at your house. All I run and go to do some stuff. Stuck does? Like, man, I mentioned facings Rytas place rocks. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. That's happy. That was crazy house like the real good friend Morgan Campbell mazing skater, and that that house was loose. It was fun. A lot of crazy people came and stayed there. The Mexican sky to the like we had deals Jason dill staying with us for like. Just my him house was pretty out there. Yeah, creative. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Good area back then to man to man. Like that that time was epic because I've actually twisted the arm of the management aim at I was working on them egg. And I was like dude, can we somehow get my maga- get another issue twenty twenty out and you help me take care of the ads or something because I don't want to sell stove just wanna make a coup. Pemex magnet represents what I do. And I will let. Yes. Show back it as long as you keep getting your work done. Yeah. Man in take a little. And give me the resources and issue four popped out. And it was the best because. I mean, I was riding a lot with Mike daily, and Tim Lynch those guys and mocks kinda like, yeah, we should try and get magazine. Again. What are you doing? Wants to hard, man Burke. Anyway, so we go for out. We'll says mock involve this, you know, I think he writes something in it. I he's photos of on board yet. So it was just assume me with a map kind of taken care of selling the ads. Wasn't a great thing to do in on-site. But but cruising was I I was getting a maga- again was blowing my mind. Yeah. At the same time stuff was I mean, I mean, Sydney, no one knows me. We can do anything. And dial is kinda like I could come up the dumbest ideas and diluted possum. So every time I ride with Mark. We'd be driving say we'll driving down to you know. You know, rod Oppong you being and off to the session, and ideas would come up. You know? And so at that time when he should vote was coming out we had massive projects going on. Which was I just thought you could do anything and saying in Sydney back then was pumping like an issue for dropping coincided with a couple of things that was two thousand one. I've leave was planet x extreme games at Homebush stadium stralia. Yeah. And also road warriors came out that year. Yep. And you guys did the video premiere four road boards at the Valhalla historic Valhalla cinema gli point road on if you're going to go to a movie best thing happened about how fucking that. And that place is still like a local legendary everyone still talks about it. Yeah. And. You know, John, and I grew up not far from there. We like we're gonna go to fucking be mixing, and it's gonna be run a movie from. Yeah. Yeah. And we turn up and Chris Doyle's and like all the pros in town for the planet X games, and we would kind of just hanging out and just in just believe me. I think John adds maybe Tom Payne was there those other younger crew, and we're just at the front on grade-point road place. We drop in and all of a sudden, there's astronomy mex- legends American banks pros, and then like just oldest BAAs and someone I see people holding magazines issued full, and I guess you had a few copies floating around that was a crazy time. Like, I rode worries that that whole. That mean, this whole idea in my head was possible. It's like we could have a series of jams comes around the country, and we could get a big crew. And instead of because some people come make it's every state and leaving Adelaida lived in Melbourne, Sydney Brizzi. But what if we did a trip, and we took twenty people ten people have anyone the truth now? And we went to all those places we had a compr- jamming H one, and we documented stuff for the MAG because I need things to putting the MAG, and we had to go get this content, and film, we'll make film out of it. I'm gonna jam series Mike the single off. So just no one sign. I couldn't do it. So and Mike was into it. And everyone at the janitor into it. And we made a movie about it. Yeah. And and you got you got some companies behind you. You know, like. Vay was just launched any any? The ball the Viking. Yes. So. Yeah. Those dudes on bullets. Yes planet x. The next one on those big comes. I guess what the X games the planet x x trials to trust series. And the televised. Stafan, you know, I I ended up talking to them. You know is backing out of riding comes wasn't really Rodney comes by then. And but I want to make sure things done legitimately saw house actually talking with the guys from exit. How they ran their call because the first planet X, I two hundred exit. I didn't really dig rotting him the first one I didn't Ryan the whole time. And I thought things would be wacky. I ended up going. Why on what am I what am I put a heads into try and help them make it legit? Make it to the right is a happy. Mike BMX legit because it should be it shouldn't be dictated to by. Corporate people people don't know what it is. You know? I started getting my head in people's is, you know, my voice in that and end up doing pot from helping organize things with judge. Whatever may Mark in their bashing that dole is going. Do you got to do it? Right. Some could be working on event stuff with them of it. And we're making sure it was run. Right. And then I'll be running on the media side of it. More ended up coming citing a lot on TV. It's funny. A member that X games in Sydney ELS in the stadium with Cameron steal the commentators like motocross to kind of funny. But it was cool like and that helped pump magazine because in those guys wanna advertising the MAG and have their presence in the legit media. Because I need I want I guess, but yeah, anything sort anything was possible as rocked up in Sydney, not want to sign you couldn't do it. You know? Yeah. Let's just do everything. And yes, I'm mad came out on the premier not that was it from the prudent, and I remember I had bought she wanted to issue. Three didn't really happen. So. I've got one. And it's banned. Yeah. Yeah. That's twenty. Let's have it. But yeah, I remember being at this premiere, and then few you know issue. She full this. Yep. Russell transit transit. Yeah. Brownie photo. And I remember dude one of my one of my best friends at the time. Chris karnei? I tebow a old son was holding a copy. And again, I'm like, we the fuck did you get that and cannot have it like you're gonna read it twice, and you're gonna treat it badly. I'm gonna Bush this these pages like give it give it. Yeah. But and that was I guess that was sort of office, you foils a bit of a memo toning point kind of you picked up momentum of that. And then the MAG just kept rolling. Yeah. Woman had magazines with a map who was English publisher that had twenty plus magazines. You know that FHM? Tracks in waves and surf striking like motocross skiing MAGS, Mike Skype maks women's MAGS movie. Mags Rolling Stone. You know, that was a big media company, and I got to sit and work with some of the best art directors editors production, people tons of resources. Yeah. And had resources and contacts met printers, and I met all these people. And I, you know, the biggest thing I learned how to do things. But I learned how not do things and how to treat people and was pretty cool company. I gotta say I mean, I helped me a lot go to weird when a new management did come over from England. And sat me down and went all, you know, we're going to do this for twenty twenty and this and this and this and I'm like not you not that's mush it's actually my MAG. And so know, it's an Email. He met taught align it's not mad. It's mine like just being helping me out with with selling ads on it. We've got a we've got a deal that nothing was piper. And he's like, no, we're doing this. And I'm like not like not, you know, and and the new head new head came out and he sat down with me. And he's like, you know. I really really like what you're doing. But you're gonna have to do this this and this and audit stood up on. I was on. He's two weeks notice on human like and then the other management crew like not taking the MAG. And I'm like, dude like, it's not going to happen. And the magazine on was going on the press. And I said look good. It's going to be a huge dick on the cover of that magazine. And it's going to say, you suck it you'll name on it. And I was like I'm going to get arrested or some shit of do something bad's going to happen. But they back down and. Neil stepped in the bat and Ridgeway, and he might sure I knew, but I'd socked I thought I was gonna lose it all and I just got that momentum going, and then luckily, I was losing it gonna lock than Adam afford to do it. Now. I don't have a job because I just Sydney and rent cost truckload. Now what I do. And then my daily goes me. Oh, hell hell doing. I know you hate doing chasing money from people because I'm a county that. And I'll help you on cell in the ads and help you on the management. You know, the running the back end of you know, sending out stuff. He's he's a logistics milestone. He's so good ad love is you know, he's a technical wizard. These Ryden is that it's so precise. And so Donald and he doesn't crash much daily crashes in Rhode breweries you did did. Yeah. And all holy crap. And never seen my crash ever the clips from that pock and that session, though, even after Burke's tooth like it was like into that little bowl to seventy that little thing. Pops out perfect on a fifty cent piece five forty tap lands in cobb's bit more than two seven out of the other hip, and the clip on of Pawlak had a it was short from up above and fucking hell that was like how did you fit all that spinning into that little space marauding Procup? The pro you know, the vans per per Cup. Mallika kill it in his prime high speed, double pigs ever. Yeah. So Fossey's pigs touch Sydney grind everything. I don't camera think I act gem. And it was like you pigs. Lock into a hot and heavy. Fifty fifty dope peg and you leaning so far you pay. Just don't quite touch touch. And all the cameras back, then like Majon, and and you know, dive James take that fucking Cindy out of you like this fucking touch. Brutal bitch crank that fucking manual Chinese to mellow. Problem. Get some big graphs. Yeah. Talk with toll stuff. Yeah. Tuck. But I guess in. Yeah. You rolling twenty twenty you had daily involved now. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. It was it made. It was better. It was like, wow. What back to being independent? I'm back to being independent, and I've got someone on board. He's got the same kind of values in the same. Well, actually, the best thing about everything with machen. I, you know, I guess it's like riding as saying mock soap besides in my writings, always said chaotic and loosen random, and whatever happens happens, creative as well. And I think the way I made a magazine just one of the might the Cousteau just my on us seem ising photos. I want to. The whole idea of the MAG is like you elevate everything, you know, it's not just his cooler doing a coup coasting on a coup by you bring it up everyone. You know, you bring up the photography bringing up the scenes you bring it up a kid. He sees a photo. And goes, hey, I saw that kid riding that dude must be pro. Because he's in a MAC, he was riding my local pock, it just elevates everything, you know. And so I suddenly had a room mission. You know, and dialer was on board to do with me. We we can do this man like we can really step step out the MAG and step up what we do. And and again, I guess like assign with how I wanted the magazine in my clothes and on com. Move on jams back Adelaide Sydney felt the same. It was like that again because it's okay, we can run we could run events our way not like planet x and screw everyone. Do it. Our do it legit. And make fun, and we can put it in a might movies. So yeah, running events. I mean because you'll make MAG you wanna put stuff in it. More revenge. You had that teamed up with Mike and together you're able to be like, well, we can organize. We can we can we can come up with an idea, and Michael that's not gonna work because we haven't gonna money, and as always mazing voice of reason. But yeah. Run combs. Let's do it. And I guess in and you guys together Deloitte of events. I mean, I guess you guys invented star of the act jam. Yep. I mean, and that was fucking epic. I mean devolve into something that's truly incredible. You know, the the Dusing camera at the moment toss in backbone dudes killing it, but I guess act one I'm saying the coverage of that in twenty twenty and sing a K Cambre has epic pox, everyone from Australia who you wanna hang out with and see ride. Is there? Ryan these parks. It's like not accomplish no pressure. Everyone. Just having a good time. We read about that. Like, if I again, we have to go sure enough act to was thing and that happened, and then bigger and myself, you know, John Yang few of we all ended up this pre having a getting parents to drive. Yeah. And we're act to and sure enough is can join Kim. Alling west, and boom, there's Russell really to rice you. He was a bad ass now seen ride local, camber pox. Holy fuck this through rules and just being in in. There was just I guess set the tone for may just wanting to be around. A sort of a more positive, I guess supportive via Mexican varmint not necessarily structured comp serious. Even the rice the house from the rising background not just wanting to be good times. Good people. And that was thank you for doing that that was pretty fucking rat. And then you spelt it out with that. Like when I was a kid. I went in a couple of BMX raises didn't really enjoy it that much. I enjoyed jumping the berm. I enjoyed dismissing around the track, you know. So that wasn't for me. And then and even all the comes to do not awarding from L vertex Penrose Mornington. You know, just all the is go on the regional trend comes up in Queensland. A lot going to the events a lot going combs. I hated the com-. I never wanted to place a win. It sucked. You had the right by yourself with everyone looking at you. I don't wanna do this too much pressure. I loved the rotting went down before the come off comp and all the friendships that will might. So that evolved into the events we did had to be about. Let's just get everyone together and go ride the best off in secret going to come. And you just read one pock, you kinda get bored. So yeah, let's do jam act. The gem girl older coupon in camper every weekend, and then someone will win, but someone will be chosen as the do do that that shredded the most on all the different stuff. Not just one. You know, I wed a local hero is gonna kill it. Yeah. The cool thing that is cameras variety of pox. I mean, they got more now going back then and even like all the pox bull tighted more. They weren't wasn't the same stall pox. So yeah, the first the first stop on of you guys were gone one day to one day and one on the second. Okay. And then one day killing it at one pot move onto the next part that evening that someone else's just fucking destroying it at really brings out. Everyone has the personnel on. And what a good concept, you know, then I would. Yeah. We we did threes of it. I always think used by on events to threes. I don't why most events of impove down kind of threes. Do something else got to evolve. Now. Luckily, though, the crew in cambric win went actually did hit us up and go can we do it again? And will, you know, continue the same time be go for man, always data that can Jan this year few months ago. I'd been to one of the modern incarnations of it. Because of always always working on the weekends the shelf and everything and I rock up sell west and gold. Just fucking chaotic brilliance. Rotting was mental depart atmosphere was inside everyone was just everyone by kissing each other. 'cause stuck like this is the best damn live and the whole weekend was so good. Yeah. And props to those guys for really put that in and making so cooling. I'm stuck. It's continued with some of the von we started. It's cool. And I guess moving on from act jam you go as I guess more foam Lee, you guys had a big pot in bay mex- games revolve with freestyle bags Estrella, man sort of headache. I mean us a couple years before being Mexican started. We got hit up Mike, and I got hit out. I guess we were seen as the authorities and BMX because we had a magazine. Buddy institute sport sporting, the sports sports commission and institute of sport about BMX is going to be newly peaks freestyle, and we're talking years before was announced took an online a decade before the NASDAQ least two thousands. Yeah. To go down to Cameron hopes them about hot performance, I fully training for free stole by Crowder's about everything to do with Straton Australia, having an Olympic team free style. So it was given thing that I I was going to be in the Olympics. When you back then. Which is crazy. And it was always talked about. I think it's. A student completely get magin that back then Cathy Freeman Kieran Perkins paint joining. Steve mccann. Well. But yet possibly pay John? I get a cover of an American magazine. Remember that Canadian snowboarder went there? Was was paid the first China cover? Not sure we have to fear. Like, yeah. The rod covet was massive. Yeah. I remember. Terry book from bags mafia psychology back then. Yep. Broke the news team because I used to get MAGS wrecks too. And he would hang out and Sydney for that. And I think I've maybe just didn't have wasn't pay coming. Stay with me. And he was around like talking joins like in my neighborhood got surgery and saving me for couple of weeks. Okay. We were hanging out at the shop at Terry's. And the MAG towns up, and we're all like all my goal is joining the cover of ride, you know, and at the time joining a little RX7. Mazda RX7. the rotary thing he was trying to sell it wasn't trading post back on the training thing and actual physical newspaper, and so Terri being the joke that he is just loves playing pranks fucking hilarious rings up payment. Join and giving him sheet like knob, bro, you go to sell it to me, cheap that arc seven nominee. It's too old too many kilometers like. I want to cheap and these and Pete's like just on the other end the fine. Just. Guys a hot time. Then Terry this bus out saying like, yeah. Only lose it without a car like that. I'm lose gets the cover of American magazine, some guys on the cover of Rodway mex- named payment. Join and like pizza, it's like. It's like what the fuck. Like Terry giving him shit like broke the news that he wasn't the cover of rod through some dump story about he's like seventh. That's classic Terry. Yeah. But I guess what we're talking about. I guess. Yeah. Moving into the guest. Bam X games. Yeah. And I be max. And it was a weird time like, you know, the governing body of cycling in the strata Soccer Australia had an extra for icing. And then they wanted to have a free freestyle being ecstasy. Yeah. Free still being extra to oversee events and stuff in this riot. And really this is crap. Like, this is gonna go bad. So dialing is sitting in meetings and camera with them kind of try and explain to them that will racing BMX offense fan, but not actually it wasn't even bet rising actually coached for a long time actually competitive road bike riding, and it's like, you know, road bug. Dudes, those coaches and stuff and road bug dudes row full of every drug in the world, every cocktail that can have to before they rice and. As is the cart elite. Bam extra coach from we. Yeah. Whatever I want to get to that bought free. Still be next. Words. Don't have a hot performance coaches, and I don't have nutrition programs, and I don't have drug programs, and I don't have on. And I it's it's going to be a can of monster. And it's going to be probably cigarette and hungry Jack's book, man. That's that's the difference between you know, jamming in, you know, mosque agents and drugs, and April, whatever, you know, anyway. But yeah, does it make difference? But anyway. Try to pull the positive out of everything I wanted to do with the MAG and make sure it'd be nice gets elevated a bit and the just most of happens. Okay. If there is a governing body of free stall could we have insurance for calms? Could we get everything covets freaking about that? Yeah. That'd be part of it. Okay. Cool. Well, let's just do it. If if that's the lowest common denominator that we can run events how we want and had some input into how you run events, and we can't stop it better than anyone else. So being next game started night. This comes a pretty cool. For the first one Adelaide. It was more. Just you just had and we got dirt those dot com. Which was off the back in the next hole from the nationals. I think maybe it was a world is man in the world. It was like really this is the world Melvyn in girls basketball stadium. Whatever loss house gloss out. That was crazy. That was a crazy event the southeast millwood. Magic's fucking Yam home, boss. Boston lines was after that. Who else was it? Anyway, everything could lose coup jump come that hunts was there. Yeah. They didn't they bulldoze half track to make ain't the very ends. Like got ruined. Let's just run dot hill. That's making. Gross gross watering young was he'd just moved up still in an alleged. Yeah. Yeah. He wants to doing Adelaide those pre road warriors. And he was still in allied. Jan road wars that a coup jump out north of Adelaide speak step up like south Adelaide hills. We had Dingley Dell where we had a big step up which had some jams. Janse man just gonna Jim. Best more jams are saying all that old. I'd light stuff volatile visions Zoli videos, pledge pharma's and the other one. He's going to put them all up on lawns. Maybe read heard from him while back. Shoutout. Zoe. Pretty good music back then to man, like gelling Z bans thread Norton. That test was pope McCain. We used to demos and Adelaide demos. And just demos with stuff. Yeah. Man, we met hit stuff happened on late because we started an association of there. So we could get grants, and we could get sponsorship rim and get stuff. We do these demos and those one year we did a crazy metal festival Dan Goure where they rights jet roads. And we built some crazy jumps right in front of the stage. So that you know, how you always have a security barrier. Standard. Standard security. Yeah. And then the site we had jumps in that zone fuck year. But that will kind of really sandy. So the bands of shredding in jumps. It was crazy man the loss landing was so sandy said like it was soft yet. But even if you landed good you pretty much. Yeah. Those fun, man. That's yeah. Well, I'd light stuff back then the whole jump company got step up Dingley. Dell doesn't bother me where all the tall into saying all those dudes and saying people from eleven striving seeing K ragging on clips. And sure did that was I was so Jesse Carlson, and he was actually in starring back to freewheel seeing him sponsored by JT racing killing it and then rotting our JT REIs book with health and love handles as jump bike. And they might not have been Hoffman's. I might have been the BAAs. We might we designed we got twenty BAAs made. Which Jesus what have you done? And if you have an idea in your head why not try and do it. See we had about Jesse one symbolic. He wants him dead straight balls because he did he's doing a lot of. Boston's so just sweep and flat lines dues wanted some sweet bonds. So we made it was funny because there's a kid I went school at Matt Townsend he was in mazing to jump. He was volatile his dad, my drag friends, Holly Holly, how Davidson drag box and Sandra box. I don't know if he was a bike him. It was Nali kinda went to him with like, well, he's a pair of love handles. And he's a pair focuses believe is whatever for pace wants something about this. And withdrawn some pictures, Jesse Jones and pictures drawn some pictures. We wanna get some Pez might. And, you know, would you diameters and make it choose getting massive at that time, and he's like Nahmad might not it's too big crackhead, shoe stem crack, head should. Yeah. And he just knew all this stuff about criminally. Like, man, anyways, we got twenty pairs of his coup Bosma. There wasn't a name for it or anything and yet Jesse random on the service that looked a lot like like coughing love hand. I think they'll twelve piece we'll pay had little Kona gusts beautiful build, man. Wonder where there where they all ended up. I had a parent upon started got stolen after company. Melvin shattered. Jesse Boston backflip for anyone pre Nyquist free Nyquist jesse's right into being a strategy with the the global BMX media wasn't. I would watch Jesse rice. Happy Valley local truck because we're just going jump that backbone or something, and he'd be rice in a pro whatever what are the top causes and rising, but the loss rites of the diet, and he'd go down that back straighten those three big doubles, and he'd like pendulum foot, you know, to can knife on the first ad in front of pro whatever second one, huge no cana-, something wasn't let the three sixty on that. And he just blast stall the extra rule book back then was fate coming off. He's okay. No. Yeah. That's right. You couldn't cross your balls up more than one eighty because I think I had that problem in a rights when raise funds so. Yeah, then. Yeah. Yeah. Jesse was amazing. That's the same that time with in delayed was because he had bison across a goading translator. Right. And I hate more crew. Do they hate Coon Adelaide? I mean, little black, man. Shout out. Not mad. Hodgson. Yeah. I mean, he was but I met him in Melvin with Tony hope fringe and the glove and Rodney flat. But yeah, he wrote street. We'll good real good. Rugrats real good at lights sort of always had a pretty strong. So saying I guess thing in more recent times, yet me cities, it's been there thirty years. Yeah. No as big as that. But it was always being mixture. Always that's awesome. From my earliest recollections in live. I've never been light. I go to make that change that some trials. Oh, yeah. I guess we kind of segue to bunch there. But I guess going back to bay mex- game stuff. I mean, you're the first combat allied. Then we eventually moved to Sydney, and you had the first first ones were at what was to become multiple Skype wasn't monster Skype yet it was the building. And you had a bunch of the ramps that would become monsters ramps book, and that was the first year of that was pretty Radoman going in that and entering a couple of the injured park. And maybe it was monster. When it wasn't monster yet like the the the ranch will black no different. And then the next year was monster because it was all the planet. X ramps begin the dudes from a whatever the whatever the company was code that build the ramps he was a partner and planet x continent. The whole story. There's a lot of business with the planet. X things I understand. But the guys who built the ramps were legit and kept building. And then started Munster. Okay. Yeah. I like the Vert ramp wasn't Hoffa's wise what it became. And this was only half as well as what was to become turned around. And Dow's e that Fink did that nine hundred hundred. Yep. I landed flat with the handle older. Why? And it was the fucking best thing that ever seen at the time that was mazing. And then I guess the next year when monster was was in place and the whole park was set up, and that was more international. You had a few more McKay. Asada maybe mush if he was maybe those planet x but does but deal Awad you had a couple of other like point Ken, what was still here. I guess, but he was heading America. Yes, we had every biggest rallying due to those events and a couple of international. Yeah. And that I mean, the new go as you in daily, essentially. Responsible. Yeah. I mean, those people involved in just us, but try to keep it as Judah. Could you know, and yeah, it was cool. And yeah, I think I think Don legit, and it was cool those prize money and those prizes and we saw a mazing riding on ever forget. Yeah. The fact that. Yeah, it you could enter and made my friends were entering and you could win cash I would Satan Spratt that was the first one the first double types anyone ever seen this and afterwards as a fuel TV Bana. He's view stuff, and he's going envelope. He's your handful helps you how much money do you need. All my God, you want money for rotting to block it accomp-. Without that's part of the fuel TV thing. Like, I got involved with fuel TV on the Foxtel with said Anthony Sedgwick to help on the TV coverage which went hand in hand we running the event. It's weird. You've got a voice thought being Mexican that bigness rice, he got a go between things, but if we could might be and get on TV, then would be more prize money, and it would be more coverage. And we again, we can build it. You know, and we'll make sure everyone's represented the we fly that we've that we park you know, what I mean? That's what doing this like with with building everyone, not just one little sane, and that meant a lot and Jill TV, and what on those projects deficiency. We'll just do the one hour show second year. We did. Five shows maybe five when I was shows, and we won the best sports coverage really on cable in Estrada you in Bolton. Yeah. Yeah. Volts in. Yeah. Hi, Joanie skin headed, rollerblade ado, Janis legend in America. He's like. How meditation coach now? He's like. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. He's a good. I guess. Previous to the what what gave you somebody experiences with next did some comments announcing a toting planet x channel Tena whatever it was like some planet, Xtra dot com. Victoria, and you'll like coal and the tricks data me up with Matt from the MAG on can you come in educated. Some of the stuff is because we don't really know. Can you come commentate once go to the footage just come into the studio and took crop pretty much? Fun. We used to type shit of TV, and I think everything BMX, man. And I think it ought to be trials drama and Victoria. And it was called and grocer olas dues there then make. And I remember your commentary. I watched it. I was like this does company at the time was probably Mead school. Everyone's blocks looks so RAD, and so tough watched it over and over again. And then by the time lighter on where we pause, and I became friends and everything and I just been like, that's the voice that's the trails and hanging out with. Kind of bizarre and not of me. But yeah, that's fucking rather. You to use all of your experiences through the old stuff the TV getting to number two that is hot as the saints TV? So. Yeah. China of things then using that to help promote banks games and promote Baymax, and you know, and you still rolling with twenty twenty the time. And that was rod because you're getting kick ass content full the MAG, and it was all kind of pretty awesome positive time. That would have been what two thousand six seven. And I guess I mean, they asked him sort of eventually fizzled out a bit. Yeah. I mean, the buddy I XE onto BMX Shelia. There's a lot of issues with bam extra money being put him we're going to get a lot of trouble saying something like that. But then listening. It's interesting. You know, I'm gonna soon as a lot of money involved and be grants. I mean, we, you know, Denise bossa ended up getting a gig working with him and got that crazy pock for the melon event. Made sure we'll try to get my stride. But then ended up getting made in China, but that was like a hundred thousand dollar investments. Eddie Granderson wasn't it like for potable pot price. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's sitting in containers. Yeah. And Darren if listing promised a half plot for this very building with sitting, and we need that just wanted to see what's up with that. Yeah. Yeah. You know? It'd be makes games. It was huge. It costs a lot of money to run took a lot of resources to run it. You know, the Bill does being Jones to build a ramps. This so much to do like quickly went account be doing this stuff anymore. I'd rather run more core small events that are more fun and on structured and. Have fun again. Let's just bring it back to the reason we do this in the first place, and I guess you were than you. You started doing the slider riles, and then I guess on house hammers and Sydney comes which were on fucking Bah in Melbourne, which says like. Probably one of the loosest Bazi moment of of all places. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why why would you do that? Man. Like, why the hell not man? I mean, it's hard, you know, 'cause BMX traditionally is what I know. Would people bought the MAG the stats would say that it was thirteen to nineteen year olds in the MAG? It's not really conducive to drinking and partying. Let's screw it. I'm older. We can just invite an old accrue. Let's have what's up of jamming and not club. Let's have a handrail confident dot com and how did that conversation with the actual bar self even start? I mean, I live had like shoes from Volvo when the Melvin for a couple of years revolted on a Sunday afternoon. You just go there to have have a beer after me running, you know, and become a Landry instead of friends coming around my house and leaving crap there, and they're obvious anti-drink. You just gotta revolve whenever drink Joe at dad. Good music. Always funny people coup catches and those urban legend in revolver upstairs. It was a mini ram. Someone used to skate. It was like a man having to come over. That ideas that Doman for well, but a couple of years later ends up being execrable working revolver work on the ball. Whatever limb. Faye Hansen looking in their absolute based totally healing. Talking to him one night probably light one night. And dude like there's always room. The ramp-up stairs. I always wanted to have company out an address. Here's what's company here. I'll talk to the management and anyway within a couple of days of that conversation within a week. So yeah, we're doing it. We're gonna not. And I was like, okay. Then we'll we'll build some staging get everything out of the wine will put a handwriting handrail come be stick Melvin straight. Yeah. And we just did it. I did it one or two or three times three times three years. You kind of get the formula, you know, and I couldn't work out a way to do anything else in revolver in that spice. It's hot and the fact that we had to be an ex company. Every skater on you. And Melvin Zych. Yeah. Handrail comb. Why don't we have to get one? Any? I'm like, I don't know. Dude. What are you doing? But that's said it had been done metro THEO the mazing venue up on the street. There was a company with the ramp and a handrail years. Lindsey Brown wanna think about Renna McCain Queen comes second. This wall, ma'am. Thousands. Okay before twenty twenty. Yeah. It was a handrail com. Too early. Because I think a man those handrail comes on the banks of the arrow snuggled comb, but I couldn't do it. And they didn't have much snow for then advanced that we read the Ryo. To hit the smugglers. It was only about this Hawley. And that front crank casino funny as well. See Melvin tied. Handrail comes. Yeah. Fuck you Mellon street? And then I guess you brought it to Sydney have like a year off of doing it. He then has the Hammas data factor theater. America Phil had to keep it local. You could drop a handrail Melvin and the dick and the deck could come from Melvin because mega deck coup. Come company, we did it with that office in Alexandria that I talk to but at a office in Melbourne so they crew from Melvin just in built build a deck with insert the handrail and pots of the ramps and sign it up and. Yeah. But has a happens. Biegel taught of that much bigger you had you had pretty you could pre buy a ticket as a spectator. I remember we at Helen wheels. And the store we had tickets value shop and bought to getting go down. And you know, those guaranteed to be pretty good time. You had people all over the country coming. I remember being in the shop working on the day off in crude is rocking up. You know, Queensland guys Western Australia's south strategy is just coming in you know, blocks from the venue. I guess and I was just like being working fuck. This is going to be because I'd been to a slight rile yet. So always I didn't know what to expect. And I guess it was probably a slot largest scale as ones that had the handrail had a grand box coughing on one side and just allege on the other. I'm bomb because we'll meant to have a quota pop at the end, and then come back up at all which would be much better because we have more space, but. The gaza. One factory metro real cool with that up until the last night. We had somebody dramas and laid up to that comb. From insurance issues to the honor of all the places getting back on there's no way in here. And then having and Chinese and like. But we've just all the stuff and pay for the stuff. Anyway, we put it off, you know, but we weren't allowed to have the quota pot at the end to come back on. That almost didn't happen, man. Was it really mega storm cow fucking Sydney blacked out. And and somehow the had down stays the bow was sort of like it was just everyone's crowded in. There was going to what's happening. What going sides blackout? Everyone's just kind of getting a bit age AG, that'd be irritated drunk. Yeah. And I think the wood was if the lots and pal come back onto before nine o'clock, then we got to Canada. And maybe do it this. They're not maybe tried to on the Sunday's or the day. And no one was gonna come back. I was I was pretty devastated, man. Cost you a bunch of money. A lot of people didn't come and didn't buy tickets on the door. And it's like man, you know, I mean, I'd never ever done anything really might money. But my whole plan was always to break, even Mike. What you need it. Like, you gotta make money. I'm like, no just want to do it. Anyway. And I was like man, this is actually gonna cost money now like a lot. Oh, having that that in the back of your head knowing how much energy and money you've spent crude come to from an estate whole leading everyone down. It's like, man. I'd run comes outside so many times rain and win the defected. A and you'd have to co it off, and it sucks, and it was like doing. In in the factory theatre what can go. I remember just being like shit. It's it's not gonna happen like debt and all. Who's come back tomorrow? I gotta work tomorrow. And then what was it like, I fifty nine and a half the fucking lots came on and the place erupted so good like pretty sure if anyone was to track down, the editor of it. It's out there on the whips and just that moment fucking insane. Who's amazing? And then was one of the best not was I mean, I mean. What can go wrong? Like, you invite some amazing writers haven't hypoc people friends, and everyone comes up hang out took what some amazing writing head to head rotting. You know to go in the rile best Rawda wins h hate rata. He doesn't make it gets given drink Qods. He's like give them to their friends tonight. The panel of judges drunk dri- and zave to the most hilarious people locker phone both drunk pretty good combination. I had really high hopeful zave being a presenter on national television trying to groom him for. Good. We'll point is direction. Yeah. No. Yeah. I mean, I really enjoyed that. Even with all the stress. Yeah. That was that was quite an interesting time. Those fucking good frustration BMX say that was nobody left that place bummed. It was just the best. Yeah. And I guess Dolly back a couple years the massive massive event. Red bull. Plop that happened. I think three's. Yeah. You're kind of involved in the conception of that. Yeah. About that, dude. From Buddhist rang up one day randomly. Hey, man. Like, what are you thinking about this idea we wanna build like a snowboard Hof pot at and we'll get the world's best rod come rod at like best week and mirror and. Chirping right. That's. Baht foot ramp, but let's talk. So when had a meeting with him and. Randomly talked about building a pot. And I was I don't really think you can just do it a. Hundred meter long Vert, you know, forty foot high thing, I just want you want lost scene had hottest pack live. Anyway. So anyway, like, we had this meeting and. Meadville whatever that that crazy cool. They lots of money epic. I was doing stuff with red boo back then on other fronts. Sounds cool. Whatever I forgot about it. Couple months later going. Hey, we're going to do it. Can you get the Perth will fly you over? So they flew mocking. We had we had full shipping. Containers have many thousand ton of debt had got Buzi, and he's he's off saw to build on the supercross tracks, and we just had to rustle up for five W. I rod it's come help. So we're Jan decode airport. We build that. How would put two containers on each side distance apart at the bottom, we thought had focused, and excavators and stuff, and then we just filled it in with that and made a pot. We kinda made some extensions and some lips. We only met a little because to pack pack that wasn't the best, but we might some sort of lines. So like a snowboard terrain park. We had some sub rails and sub book some top. Today's building it and riding it, and we wrote at the end, and because some photos and had a fun time. Kinda prove the concept Senator the stuff to read boo. Can you not show these photos to anyone? Yeah. Didn't hear anything for like maybe year and a half to us and then suddenly Ganal just get this random coil. Hey, man, really wanted to come down to we come down to toria. We're running really become you know, you know, the puppy might. Yeah. With built one in mount beauty in his hundred meters long. We're going to run the company in three or four weeks. I'm like, really RAD. Or really like this is true. Get red bull. Have a talk show the photos. I'm like, holy crap. Like got to be kidding me. This is mental thing was giants. Yes. And the day was so sure that you can just have to walls one hundred meters long because and some of the feedback. We gave them was it'll work, but you'll need to have it on a hill to Kate Spade. Because you lose spayed if it's just flat like on the Vert ramps slower than you kinda wanna hundred psi Bubba. They built it spent a couple of hundred a hauling mitch's property and expensive home grand a huge role in tower and put it on her hill with a twelve twelve degrade some sound like much else. So state you hit sixty gone straight down, the gut look with all. The center brightness and end up in hospital. People buying little side callup side county, vice bro. Local mom and dad blacks would amount. I don't know what hit them got Lecoq, Monique Richardson. Turn up gone. We need brakes. Oh, have some shitty. Tetreault? Yeah. I'd always dues like looking at it gone joking with the best. Now that was a crazy concept. I didn't think it would work, but it worked beautifully. I think three's again through us more and more international guys every year. Yeah. But you know, he he's the kicker with that one. Do was some. I was like we need more. We need everyone. We need every American, you know, every year arrived out at this. We should should catches to the world. And for some reason, I think the way it was told to me that. Couldn't have shot the US and European events. It was a small fire event in their words. It's like you spent how much digging this whole that's a small fire. I know you know, what I mean about, but yeah. Instead of four or five internationals at it and the strong crew. Yeah. I mean fucking fluke tag in France. Can't get no. Beam exit dream, right or joy. And then the one that was angel Pokka whatever the one out of New York state. Anthony to pollen dream line. Jayme. Lynn. Yeah. Yeah. So those events have bigger, and then the one in the UK what was that one to Toby was pump. Oh empire in those wants doesn't have to be bigger. Okay. What hierarchy? Yes. I think. Wrong about that. But I mean that was a crazy kill my. I'm doing out. Did that happened? You know, I really am. And the fact that yeah, what what what Volve from shipping Tana's in Naples, w I to what have opened a couple of sketches, man. Yeah. Crumb? Yeah. L side. You have been involved in much crispy you've been involved in. Probably a good chunk of the most significant bam ex events that have gone down. I guess in Laos. Oh, twenty is like I mean, I mean dials probably been involves more. So in the organization than me, but has always been a little bit. Yeah. I think of his had our heads in in most people's use and how to run event there's a lot of crew run their own events. Oh, yeah. Who is how man, and it's actually I used to love go into another event that I didn't have to worry about packing up running the drugs going enjoy yourself. Yeah. I guess trying to get a little bit. I mean being involved. I mean, having the magazine meant you're sort of a little bit of go-to guy. Everything Baymax related in strata and funny stories about how you sort of. You were the man to see if you're an up and coming gun astray Mexican you wanted to go in the states and need an athlete. You had to help all these dudes. You know, you know, famous doodoo now leaving the states full-time because you lose and. Corey bohan. Help them get photos, and prove athletes or something like that. Is that how that works at the athlete visa for America's? Obviously quite easy to get. Kinda who was I. Let me Cory what have been Ryan? I'm gonna show. I mean, I'm you know, I'm I never Ryan Gula. He got a photo publishing the MAG double page, and it was right before he was going to America. First time. And he he he wrote me I think it was just an Email. He might of rung me. Actually, he goes, man. Thanks so much publishing that Fatah. It's amazing compli photo in the magazine. Like, it was like, wow. You know, he's really start man. You know, because of that photo, my my Grandpa's, let me some money to go to the states, and I'm gonna hit these calms, and I'll tell you about it when we get back and raw. On nine Ron maybe him being in another one incumbent. Melvin being twelve years old running cut down Cuba's on sixteen spot doing no cans on lit that. Kids going to go somewhere. You know? So it was amazing to see Ryan come up and get him in the MAG and get 'cause I always figured that. If people get the coverage because things can happen and Ron's perfect example of that. And he went to the sites that year and did well and got nine, and then I remember it was Ron I curry or whoever it was. But I got a letter and phone call from a lawyer from the law feminine, America. And this woman hitting me outgoing. Hey, understanding on the magazine, I've got a a strain rata this name sites. Run willing ideas athlete visa he needs. Oh, the information like how much coverage is you had in the magazine is the COO role model. So I didn't up writing the stuff for them for the law firm and for the rider. You know? And I could give them some covers if I had him if that had coverage in bag coverage and then old right? Some things going, you know, runs an amazing role model for struggling kids and. Just start writing all the stuff with editorial license, and I became his quite funny thing like would start writing this really wacky stuff. Mocking up covers just doing all sorts of wacky stuff. You know? It seemed can wide, you know, the whole way through from that era of the bones and was Dili's and Cam in all the way through to any Bawku. And and you know, I think. Where would you Jason? What's even you know? So this one company just one law firm ended up doing most athlete vases for. This one man in this kid who's grown up a lot since then he's shredding even more. But he shredded back then. But yeah, it was just hilarious. You know and got to be that control. US customs overseas. But it's fun. Then lawyers just lays to just cut and paste in lie. Don't they? Josh lots of money anyway. So I'm glad I could always help out with that. You know? And I was good. You know, I always wanted to Maggie something that could elevate people. I never wanted to put critical negative stuff in the MAG. Never wanted the people to be the right people off in the MAG always wanted to showcase the positive, you know, cons of BMX riding. And if Roddick get some coverage and get to the states and get a visa and Chisec dream and a photographer could get some coverage and get some new gear and learn how to shoot and being other areas, you know, instead game up from BMX and always the job of making a MAG. Don know, so the Fillon it not incredible. You I would be even being that position. And I guess kinda funny cool thing about it all all the magazine stuff was is you made a point of. You know, obviously rod as being involving contributing photographs contributing woods and stuff like that. You guys made it a real point to how you contribute is which a lot of magazines. Didn't do you like just be. Yep. Cool. You write us that thing that photo to the magazine you you'll privilege to have your photo magazine. So you light up. Okay. So yeah. But the fact that you guys actually would pay you get a Magon Ross, invoice. We'll pay you, and which is admirable. I mean, I think everyone got paid before me for charity that magazine. But that's cool. I works out because it grew it made the mad keep evolving because people could be a pot of it like never going to make much money out of BMX, unless you're one of the very few percent that excels at writing, you know, and that's amazing, but not all of his can do that. But you know, if the MAG could help people get any lens Pifer for the next road trip, just fuel whatever, then it was growing something, but I tried to industry standard like alongside to skate in the surf max, and I learned that through being a big mad cow. That was good feeling and not just paying people but being out helped him being offered. Vice spin to help pointing good direction. I'm stuck with the crew that right and shot for the MAG and stay in touch with a lot of them. You see what I now? Definitely. And I guess the cool thing is there was no sort of exclusive exclusivity, and you had to open dole had people come hang out. And you would take them. You all must be a mentor or teacher of sorts and people who'd come through and help you contribute to the magazine. But at the same time like high Chevy, do these in show me how to want to do my lighting on on this show, not stuffy of people that have gone onto stuff you had to do coming through. And really almost you took him under your wing a little bit. You know, people, you know, John Yang, Alex, leave we'll home and Troy Charlesworth. I mean beach Morrison wiz that dude what to do and Necas. Nikolay maybe at rhyme many Freeman I like being deaf stays in the shop and just rats dude's coming in hanging out is and you guys would just creating Khushi and you'll learning it was really positive environment. Yeah. You know? I had no testing part of that, man. Like, I mean, not I mean, not building made a lot of that happen dot building on king street 'cause the MAG was growing mock. And I will looking to. Take verdicts, then run the him destroy that and rows into never and would run the POC. And then it was like man, we're gonna have to add to granted was would rebuild pock and Bah anyway couple of shops empty shops ended up in Newtown. And then rented you guys. And you said you want to be an extra compare that a road, and I was kinda shake him. Head gun ride sucks. Man did zone at socks who's that? And then it was like I really need to spice for the MAG dialing despite destroy. Why don't we just cut a lot? This will get a sick building ended up being on king street, which is all kind of spiritual hunger, and Sydney, I guess and not spice was being show hell on wheels twenty twenty and more upstairs and then marks destroy that collaboration. People. Brought everyone to it. You know, people could go to that this stuff. Yeah. What a great energy and as relative. Publ saying before relative outsider to the creative sort of process in terms of I've never been a photographer on a all that sort of thing. But seeing how much cool shit was being created. And like the fading of like, Alex is in one corner gone all these idea, and you like, hey, I could tweak that and then all of a sudden this explosion of rod sheet starts happening. And then next thing. Oh, it's three in the morning, drinking, tequila and fucking just magazines happening. It was the rule it all to bet. It was no rules. It wasn't any struck that MAG had to be as freestylers what I'd grown up with. And having Alex was an amazing example with that. Well, so's everyone like someone was sent a photo into a MAG you'd print it in the letters page that go out and buy new camera and the next issue you'd get this package of transparencies and print photos because it wasn't a digital back then and you're like, holy crap. The kitty sent that out of focus shot in putting the MAG is just about to become the best photography ever. You know, and to watch everyone grow, you know. And Pereira I mean, he was from this dawn, Chris rock was an amazing shoot for the MAG for a long time. Nick Ascalon needs rain timbale. It was cool because I would contact you by sending something to you know, and then you'd go from there, and you'd watch them grow, and the motivation would come from being in the MAG and get a covering everything ante gets up Jack Birtles, I mean man, everybody to that maga- would get. I'm any awesome people come through. And just never one of the funniest stories is Alex live. He just out of the blue turns up. Hey, man. I'm just finished. My you know, my much training and graphic design certificate. To be something. Do it. I want to work on the magazine. How how do I do? Let's come into sky door. He he really wanted to do it. And he really wants to know more about a MAG. That's just like me. So yeah, he he became involved in a site. Yeah. Coup some lands, you know, what's work on it. And it was quite interesting and Phil Townsley come over from the UK. And you know, he's got a background box and skate and had worked with Hot Wheels. Big destroy on England. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was saying, hey, hit me up by Email before even moved back. He's probably get he was born in Ireland be went till that from his accent is also one of the best drink meant. He's pretty good. He works for Birmingham. But I mean, he he hit me out from England sent an Email gone. Hey, man, like moving out to Emag sick. You know, seventy work on I love to work on it. And just we just grew. This crew of amazing photography's designed crew friends people that we've wrought people that would hang out like I think same needs a shop. The saints. Gotta MAG scenes got a place for people to come and grow the things. I mean, you know, John was income working on stuff. We had spice to work on. We could make things and people could come and make their own things in the spice for the magazine. Not rocks. See that happening miss that Anita space that that was definitely a moment in time. I think we'll look back on very fondly and kind of miss and appreciate I guess I mean rolling on from that just intense -posedly and just free flowing good sheet. I guess the magazine I guess the why the modern world is magazines thought to. Lose you know, lose not significance. They start to not really become part of the world and online stuff, and I guess twenty twenty. I mean, you might fifty issues which is. So the writing on the wall before fifty I think it was about forty of forty nine. Wow, stuff changing really quick. I mean, we got the web's Jiang's whited worked on the new website. So we'd go to website up. Things are changing. Smartphones are coming in you could say that. I mean, I group magazines was about, but I I mean, I could already tell you. I guess we'd BMX you see at first because hang out with a lot of young kids that sounds really bad. But, but you know, but you in touch with what the the young kids doing. They're starting to get funds in getting fines and. Funds do more than just a fun cone phones that have got dollar internet access and media, you know, is coming out and social media's coming out, and that's changing the game from the white traditional print media was curated to everyone's committees content, and everyone could read content, you know, so that was changing real quick. And wow, we a really started golfing with that. And I was making moves with the web and. Still love the MAG more than what on the web. But that was changing really quick. And you know, I member run bona spoke to me Balqis shadow. Yeah. Did that to chef SEM? Did he printed that he's an amazing guy? He hit me up going to like like being part of the max ages through triple six the man like we aren't gonna be doing print print appetizing next year. We're gonna put it all into creating our own media. And it's like with an industry later like Bonner sign that I can see a lot of a lot more companies doing that, you know, and. It was you know, she footing on one epic. That was one of the best five she's ever. And I always said if the MAG. Can over and grow a bit in some way, shape or form one. Let's billing cycle, you know, better better print shop. You gotta keep evolving it if it ever went back with probably pull the pin. It's a bit of a perfect storm like the changes in the MAG. I think we could've kept going off fifty. But there was a lot of challenges to change it. And then oddest got the biggest kick in the ASO rock was at around around forty eight forty nine right after straight off to the what's on. So you basically get the Nollie news ever get diagnosed with this fucking cancer. And. Fucking hell. Yeah. That was eye doctors tell me to give it up and Pakistan up. You know, stateful can't say you got a couple of months to year to live. We're gonna put you through a frigging crazy treatment for the next year Pakistan, 'cause you're not gonna be doing anything. And it's like, what could I just gotta get issue fifty out pretty much, and we just squish that out. We'll actually no that must surgeries, and I'm laying on the couch and off my head. Remember, John of is you at at some Vincent's just off deal throat surgery. I think and and it was with me all this. And it was like, hey, I've done this is this 'cause we trying to get there was, you know, I'm trying to get fifty fifty and everyone was kind of working together to help out while you would dealing with treatment and surgeries and just the Nasional shit ever. And you fuck well issue fifty was ethic. And you know, and that was almost a punctuation 'cause I at the time I couldn't see getting getting out of the treatment like Donlon. Well, we got fifty down. That's red. Any? No, it was good time. Because I guess we've got and the videos well Davide with Troy came out as well. Right at that time. Was that just before I can't remember man, my members highs year, Tom lawn. But mean, yeah, I that's what's up was just before we got. That's what's up at just before. Because it's a forty nine came out. Yeah. 'cause I didn't forty nine then we had the premier which broke down on the way when you rescued this bullet della because it will mitch's epic kings would wagon Burkitt's shaft and booth Ella. And it's may we should have. Juster is Mitch Morrison. Most with frigging go ahead and a here we I haven't we will a booth ill hob- like and everyone's like wanting to pick fought with straight away. It was like four hours north of Sydney and everyone's Logan. We walk in and the kids in jersey and tie-dye and just talking she the bog on. Yeah. Just onsite too much. But it's a boy band on the managing. We've gotta he's been tonight that kings broken down. And then you've got the kings. Would do you want to sell it and life when we're gonna dine these town, but ended up being crazy time did in the workshop? I gotta tell well to the tower shaft, we thought we were going to be cool to get the Brizzi nam, and the whole pre can just crack them I kinda caused in their man that caused beautiful, but we stayed in Delaware. I've just drunk played pokey flat. Poco I think meet an we're trying to get into a fly by the end with someone, but we survived, and you guys rescued us, and we got to the premier, but. Yeah, it was a perfect storm and like changing changing time, and I didn't have anything to give to to change. It sounds like you know, what I'm just going to issue. Fifties. The one for now put a full stop on. I got some things. I gotta deal with. Yes. I mean, do you want to go into any of the the can't sort of things at all? I mean, I mean our members five years ago man on five years out. We shouldn't be drinking name, your friends, and she's still with us. Kicking off as usual. Yep. Time didn't new stuff five years remission. Everyone called that one pretty good stuck to be. And during the course of all that craziness like you'll head didn't full out lost fair bid lost a bit, man. I I had very long dreads kind of. I I get a radio radiation, death, miles straps. You down to bed the couldn't shape around my head. And my head was going to get stuck in the frigging, doctor doom machine dreads. Harry, some scissors. I'll do it now. One of the red noses such kind handsome that do it. Yeah. But I remember you telling me that like, you would press Rajabhai heels singles paid Rhody to you know, I guess sorry. Hills area means dollars from Newtown, you'd pedal you like, I get traded zapped. With righty Asian, and then sit came on came then you can piddle back and. I can't even think of like, I mean, you telling me that you know, you few months scene, and they'll PayPal who had started and that would too weak to even walk themselves from the waiting room, and you appealing you black. They. Yes. Stubbornly going. I'm going to Rodman away through this cause it's gonna flush that crap outta my system. Everyone. You know? It's funny. I've only got go house about a with cancer going. So that when cancer medals fine with cancel I battling chemo and radiation. And the surgery is that that's Tofte. That's that's the shit that smashes because came kills everything and your body chemo is targeted to kill cancer cells that fos growing and touch us to fos growing cells. Foster voting sows that's not into Senator your body actually, probably a hundred percent of your body. Every cell divides sells boss came out, indiscriminately smashes the crap. So yeah, rotting was hilarious. But I thought if I can ride. Okay. My mental state that on Kate my system pumping. It got pretty wacky. By the end of it like with came out pump so much the goodness. You on a day. I'd house on a drip, the feeling somewhat fluid and Royds and anti nausea staff, and then came out self and then that much more water. I remember one day writing homeless man my head hurts, man. My helmet man and Thomas street pock much pasta out in the park could junkie get home ring the hospital in the morning and my head hood so much and my helmet is messed up. And then this is all yeah. Yeah. Head swell. What? Anyway, those plenty. But I kept on riding and has had a couple of bad incidents where I just ran out of everything because came as mashes bought so many few didn't ride, and I think that's what got me through it really more than anything, that's massive credit to you. And also a little people that didn't know you're going through that would see you out and about and they also met today, and wouldn't even know that you going through such a Nollie time, you know, and that's a huge props to. I mean, I met a lot of old people in treatments and waiting rooms. And a lot of them would lose hype and just give up and just not wanted to go to infiltrate. But one of the biggest things me riding to the hospital. I would turn up to the came wood. And it'd be the young kids which brought my heart saying young kids having to go through it. But I would walk up with a helmet. Still listen hair. Nomin do you ride bikes and just hanging out with little kids Neta site to like? No, man. You're the man I'm gonna go. Hi, I'm gonna block, you know, and their parents going shouldn't give them false hype. I'm like, I'm not mad. I just turned up here. You know, anyway, but that would stuck a couple of kids out that I went to you. You know, you're fixing your infectiously positive God to be around, which is which is one of the reasons why value fucking hang out all the time. So that would have been totally RAD for those kids really gonna be can positively. You know, so yeah. Yeah. Man. I mean, I'm another pot of me getting through that was. The crazy support from the bay mex- crew BMX community. The migos jam the. Yeah. The Queensland crew cab field okay field and out saying whole bunch occurred because I'd already gone through it. We'd Montoya brothers. Yeah. But yeah, I put on a big memorial. Gym exam for me to write some money might not shirt and hanging. Helped everyone man everyone was caught about five vision that blew my mind man to turn up to jam that's run for you a fan of hot except the bit that it was amazing to get to it. Dude, that's pretty much to know be Mexican v that for you at well fucking cheese to that. And she's too. It's incredible. I guess I guess segue out of the craziness of the cat stuff. We get to guess what you're going on now in in your media future with this crazy, Raj doing tills that might be mixed. An item on was going through came on last year, real bad. I sat within two days of it. Just to. Token through it tell him what was coming up that was really confronting. But I learned a lot about what I went through by being now push my way through that. And pull mad at through that round. It was real bad at one point. And I said to him do it like his mountain biker. He's amazing run here. Right. BMX for news young to- bag and the coach of the hopper foments mountain. Black Isreali entertain coach at one downhill downhill junior into downtown trying to damage team, which gold medals, Scott shoppers. Anyway, I said to him like you're not gonna dive Canada, even tell anyone's we'll ride from the lowest point in life lowest point in the stride to the hottest from like met cozy Osco, anyway, just dump things outside of getting started because he was done cancer. And now we have to do it because he said he's going to do it. So yeah, we're going to go to salt snow. We're gonna ride. Yeah. We're gonna ride bikes pussies mountain box from like Etta, cozy and rice money for the hospital. I was in and the research they do and then the hospital posing so that's coming up October twenty. So I'm gonna write some money doing we've got some coupons onboard because some crazy like some specialized kind of still got a pedal in, but I got engines EIB like make it a bit easier and an old friend nightmare. Any? Mount by downhill world champion and the jumping supreme mountains based. Based? Rig. He's gonna come and ride with us the best. And if you all the crew were going to join us on route couple of five people might even come. But. Yeah, we just wanna I wanna put something back. And so this rides come up. That's gonna you mentioned. The cool thing about it is essentially you're rotting from Australia's lowest point being like. Yeah. And then you're strategy highest point, which is 'cause y'all go. Yeah. So it's kind of a bit of a metaphorical uniformed lowest point of your life to highest point. And you told me that concept and all of that so fucking Kuhlman and it's happening. It's resonating with a lot of. You know, 'cause you can get some spots in your life where you at all time low, and it doesn't matter if you've given a cancer diagnosis. You know, even relationship break up, just depression. What whatever it is broken leg. Go just having a hotbed at school. I, you know, this load points, you're gonna go to your life, and you can get to a good point. You can get to high point. It's gonna take some work. It's going to be some high yards. And that's what this ride is kind of. Yeah. The metaphor for. Yeah. So I mean, yeah. Maybe it'll be annual thing auto know, but we're going to do it. That's right like shit. Yeah. When should get behind, man. Like, I mean, Celtics to it's happening. Yep. It'd be hearing about it. I guess probably we're about two hours in so. Touch of stuff, and I feel that we could do this again. And I mean, it's being amazing chatting and thank you for your friendship. And making these the head angle podcast that happened. And I think you know, now on down and get it with some guests, and you get some people talking. I think the pasta present and the future riders and industry crew. We we could sit down with and we we can definitely put some stories. Get some creative taught talkers. Yeah. Hell, yeah. Will you may find some kooks to talk to definitely? She's man. Thanks billion thanking you. Geez. You.