7 Episode results for "Jerry Krause Jerry reinsdorf"
Best Of (MJ's final season, 'The Last Dance,' Brady vs. Rodgers, LeBron's Finals stats)
"Welcome to the undisputed podcast. I'm your host Jenny Taft. This podcast is a condensed version of today's episode of undisputed handpicked with the best segments and discussions skip Shannon. Let's go good horning welcomed undisputed. How are you guys doing today? Phyllis and Shannon Sharpe. And I'm ready to get this show going slower my journey. I am so ready to get going. Wait Guilt Vela's Shannon Sharpe. You've been in trouble all week and I believe you're going to be in more trouble starting right now. Hopefully after Sunday which will be one of the happiest days of my life. Weakest Stop This blasphemy one Goat James. That's what I want to have Shannon. You Defending Your Guy. All Week Good news for us we also have Eric Dickerson joining us later on in the show but you know what only appropriate that we start by talking about Michael Jordan and those bowls because it's hard to believe but we're going to see the end of the last dance. It concludes this Sunday and skip. You taste social media video to be released on Sunday afternoon in which you're gonNA great detail about two big one on one interviews. You did late in the bulls ninety eight season with GM Jerry Krause and head coach Phil Jackson author. Which you said Liu your mind so skip I wanna ask you your final takeaway from covering the Bulls in nine hundred ninety eight and that's the ginny in all my years in this business. I've never found myself in something so baffling so con- sounding so troubling and ultimately so mind blowing is what I found myself in the middle of in Nineteen Ninety eight as the columnist for the Chicago Tribune watching the last dance from the inside out. Big Sit down interviews in late March with Jerry Krause the GM and then in early May during the Charlotte playoff series. Big Sit down in Phil Jackson's office with the coach of the Bulls and what I heard from each of these two men whose relationship obviously had completely deteriorated was just difficult for me to process and I remind everybody I had just come to Chicago before that season straight from Dallas Texas where I'd written three books about the Dallas Cowboys. The second of those books predicted that Jerry Jones would soon sire Jimmy Johnson that was after their first super bowl. Obviously they won a second together. And then Jerry Fire Jimmy is. My Book. Predicted in the final chapter would happen. Everybody told me I was out of my mind then but I said No. This is predictable that blow up. I got this one. I I still can't get and Shannon. Here's the point that playoff run. I caught Michael after one game and I told him that. That sill was just openly saying we were all presuming. That have still got fired if his contract didn't get renewed and we knew that was going to happen because he had fallen completely. Apart that everybody presumed that Michael was going to go to and sill was openly saying to everybody including me in that big sit down interview that Michael had run out of gas in nineteen ninety eight and because of his loyalty to feel he was just going to flat out retire. Remember we're talking about the greatest player. Who Ever played in any team sport willing to walk away in the heart of his prime or at least at the end of his prime and missing his age. Thirty five thirty six thirty seven season by just sitting out which is what he ultimately as we know did. But when I asked Michael About Sills contention that that Michael would just up and retire coldly replied to me that's feels opinion and that was the first sign of lives and hope that. I heard from Michael Jordan and it made me very happy because there was no reason for Michael to go to and as we all know. Jerry Krause had plucked Phil Jackson Out of obscurity. He was a coach for the Albany patrons. Argument is assistant coach. Then when Phil Kissed Up and buddied up to Jerry Krause. Jerry fell in love with Phil and finally replaced Doug Collins with Phil Jackson. Doug had coach Michael for three of his early years and yet once Phil got hold of the reins of the organization and they won their first championship. Silk completely turned on Jerry. Just duped him to get the job and began to mistreat just the way Michael. Scottie shamed and ridiculed little tiny the penguins. I call him Jerry Krause. So Jerry Krause was living in one or to get even with Phil we get that and he already had a handshake agreement with Tim's Loin from Iowa state to be the new coach the Bulls so I- publicly encouraged Michael to just forget about Phil. Forget about Tim Floyd. They called him. Paints Lloyd off the Rock Group. That was her sarcastic. Term for because fill-up in Floyd and I thought Michael could then go to Jerry Krause and say hey look. I realized the bridges. Burn between Jerry and Phil. I got it but they'll never coexist again. So let's forget about Phil but don't give me Tim Floyd or pink. Floyd gives me a real coach. Bring Back Doug Collins. Obviously Doug ultimately want with Michael for his last HURRAH YEARS. Thirty eight thirty nine years old in Washington give me Doug Collins back. Give Me Anybody. Who's a made man in the NBA is a head coach? Anybody with credibility stature and experience and I'll go forward why Michael wouldn't do that to this day haunts me because that was the move to be made and I believe Jerry reinsdorf would have compromised with that move. Keep Jerry Krause legitim- bring in another coach. That Michael Signs off on not Tim Floyd but as we all know Michael stuck by his guns inexplicably which is why can't wait for maybe episode. Ten of the last dance. I want to hear what Michael says about this. Because I wrote to conclude my column in May and June that year. I said the worst sports stars I could ever think is Michael Jordan. Gone at age thirty five and still still coaching at fifty three. And as we all know Phil went right on. It took one year. He went right onto the Lakers and wound up coaching. Shaq and Colby to three straight championships. And what did I always call fill? It everybody called him to Zen Master. I called him the spin master. I never trusted him. I never trusted his sort of spin. Golly holdover Michael Michael was very impressionable when it came to fill an that sill talked or almost duped Michael into retiring at a loyalty to fill when he did not need to sill. Didn't retire film went on one three more championships in a row. Shaq and Kobe three beaten. La So I believe that Michael also got taken for a ride by the spin master as I call him an Indian. It was the most confounding and actually the saddest story I've ever covered. Well let me start with your before. I make my escape. The reason why he didn't to Jerry Krause because Jerry Krause Jerry reinsdorf with two people that he can bully because you know why they had more power within organization then him. So you can bully. Steve Kerr and Scotty Rail and some of those others. Because they're player. You are the best player so you have. You're able to to reign over them with your tenure with your plate but you notice she can never bully J. Krav every player that he basically said he wanted skip Envisat documented. Jerry. Crowd went and got somebody totally opposite. If Jerry Reinsdorf it like I said Jerry. Krause took a lot of criticism took a lot of heat but Jerry. Krause who just the she'll this Jerry Reinsdorf because he could make all this a moot point he could have say Jerry. You'RE GONNA stand down on this. We're going to keep this thing rolling until the wheels fall off but when Jerry Krause Jerry Reinsdorf and say this is what I WANNA do okay. You see what happens to it happened again. Rest his soul with a volume polian in Washington. You see when people have more power than you. You can't bully them that's why he couldn't really J. Crowds. He could like you said he could have but he knew what the answer were. Jerry Krause made it abundantly clear. He can go eighty two in with all of his layout gave about thirty and he's still not coming back. And if Michael Retired Michael earned the right to do whatever he wants to do so they moved boy so he was like. I'm not wasting my time because there might be a time later in life. I'm GONNA need that energy. I won't need that breath that I wasted J. Across and Jerry Reinsdorf. That's why he didn't do it. Skipped you know why he didn't do it because he couldn't believe them he couldn't put them in a corner like hello. Well I thought winning so you are. You mean to tell me. He said winning. And if you don't WANNA wear get league move or don't do it there. Crowds able to have. Now we do here look at the end of the first repeat. He said that he would exhausted. He was tired of the media. Barrage the constant barrage of cosmic criticism. And it started to you know. They started to say well. What happened with your father was a direct correlation of what transpired with Michael in his personal life. I don't believe that but because of criticism scale you mean me tough if the most mentally tough guy in the history of sports couldn't handle media Chris wow imagine what he would have to go through in the social media age today. Imagine what Lebron James. Here's constantly there was no debate. Show there was no twenty. Four Hour News Cycle on fourth in ninety eight. Ninety seven with Michael was in his heyday in him. Prime can you imagine the criticism of some of the thing that was reporting going gambling of the day about? What would that be the night? Outdoor the David Bore playoff game. The constant golfing. Can you imagine the criticism? Imagine a guy player now skipping basketball be Lebron James Kevin Durant Steph. Curry would be covered casino before championship. Game or EPA championship game ream. He got the name he was caught. Everybody wrote about it. Everybody was everywhere and Lapointe the criticism. The Barat remember magic. Say of. Y'All keep being the guy you're going to write him away from the game. Imagine what Lebron has been going through since. He was seventeen because of criticism. I just saying skill. The thing was agree with you on this. You and I agree you and I agree that Jerry Reinsdorf Jared Crouch should've let this thing out let all the gay run out of the car. It's it if it runs religion outside role in the middle of the season. Oh she puts it out in the middle of either but I don't believe he should have broken it up. I believe he should've let somebody else break it up. Normally air positive normally empire just say you know what we're tired of lauding all this bath territory. You know what? Let's give it up normally some body from the outside convinced fixing over or within this case like the Roman empower if they'll with the INSKIP so when I look at agree believe Jerry Krause Jerry Reinsdorf to let it go but Michael Do? I believe Michael should've leaves boy going to Jerry. Krause Gone Jerry door but I believe like you said with got it. They've never taught my they'd never tour. Michael joins contract so the likelihood of them Scotty contract and extending him when they never did that. Michael was not going to happen. Remember in the ducks. Michael says got new. Jay Across that contract Redo his contract so Michael having been with Jay across basically sits at his first year. Nineteen eighty-five if I'm not mistaken. Step Barat Thorn. He Knew Jerry. Krause brought with him back with Jerry. Krause got something in his hand skill. That was it if there was no turning back but I thought of all this yes killed. J. Across maybe you don't like him but I saw Jerry Reinsdorf Jair given been bill portrayed very favourably in this documentary with you and I both know when you peel everything way. He was owners. How does the general manager have more control more in an organization then the owner Jerry? Reinsdorf just like he did in ninety eight when he brought peel back all that last day he said I'm bringing field back again or another land's Day fifty our core. Well I'm breaking could've been the last day of encore okay. That's the end of the single goes back. Then he come back out and give you a another set. Maybe five Kim fifteen minutes Jay rise could have demanded of JAE crowd. Bring Peel back on call. Encore and we'll see this thing plays out but what. I'm going to take most from documentary. Skip is that like I said I knew about the on court stuff but behind the scene the maniacal guy what he was willing to endure what he was willing to go through what he was willing to push his teammates to get to a level. That's what I'm most impressed with. Like I said being quarantined forced me to watch something other than you politics and so I've watched a lot of documentaries and so I knew Sam Cook could see just like you know Sam Cook and see but when you watch documentary you get an opportunity to see a different side of Sam. Cook that you like. I did not know exists. I did not know he had that type of relationship with Mohammed. Ali did not know that he was in Miami that fire escape and he and Jim Brown I think if I'm not mistaken Mohammed Ali within a room together. I didn't know that. So now you get an opportunity to see Michael Jordan off the court. Everybody saw him on the court specialty. You did you were covering day to day but you saw some of the things behind the scenes. I did not no. I did not see that behind the scenes so that was great for me. To see is the show over. I have never heard one person talk along on undisputed in the history show. Is You just talk a whole lot of nothing? Let's get back to the first three peat and you said Oh he burned out. He couldn't take the media he baloney voice. Me When I show you agreed. I think it's my turn to talk. Now you agreed that it had to do with gambling. It was some kind of a suspension slash avis that he took off to play baseball. You agreed the first after the first couple of episodes. Yup that's what was going on your system issues about it. I'm real suspicious about it to this day. It made no sense to me. He caused himself to championships right there. So we miss those two missed a season in about three fourths of the next season and was not ready to play. Orlando obviously in the playoffs and the conference finals. And now we fast forward to Jerry REINSDORF and I I gotTa tell you I resent you calling the goat a bully. He is not a bully. He was simply the greatest leader slash motivator in the history of sports. Now one player who played with them has called him a bully. Now one player has said publicly. I hate him. I couldn't stand him. They all thought there was method to them madness all of his ridicule. Whatever held that he made some pay. It was all to make their weakness a strength and they all contributed down the stretch. And I told you yesterday I showed you that roster it was to quote the Great Lebron James. Top heavy as bleep. It was Scotty Pippin. Nothing but a raw robin to Batman and then a Rodman who barely was able to stay in bounce. Thanks to the guidance of Michael Jeffrey Jordan and after that it was just a bunch of guys that he turned into winners. He toughened all of them up. And when you say Oh Jerry Reinsdorf is the one guy. He couldn't bully Baloney. He couldn't believe him he just didn't try to use his power to power play if he had gone to public. If he'd come to me and said I need you to print this print that I went to Jerry Reinsdorf and I said Jerry pick any coach who is experienced in the NBA. Not Tim Floyd I will stay for two more years and we'll win two more championships if he had said that. That's a power-play I don't think Jerry Reinsdorf have withstood. The media beating he would've taken under those conditions but Michael got thin. Golly he got Machiavelli and by by Phil Jackson Phil talked him into. We've gotTa do this together. We've to retire. We've got quit on them and quit together whole and seal clear linear and then he goes to La and coach Shaq and Colby. Oh no no no no. Don't don't worry about save peacoat. You like come back bring back best. Altima power play Kale Jerry Reinsdorf strange back and let us win to now you can't. We can't win win it. No P stores deal well. I just told you what happened. Still had turned on Krausz Krauss picked Phil and he earned on it. He duped into getting picked and getting elevated navy turned on him. Michael could not descend that Michael Body to spin master's spin so it was up to Michael. Step back and say you know what in the end krause fill? They're just to June bugs on my windshield in the final splattering on my windshield. I can go forward by myself. My team is not to hold Scotty. Went on played. Six MORE YEARS Steve. Kerr went on one two more rings. Ron Harper went on and won two. More rings with the Lakers. Every player on that team went on Dennis. Rodman went on an average ten rebounds for the Mavericks Min Fourteen. So the Lakers. They all still had plenty of gas in the tank to win two more championships. It should have been an straight championships in for Michael. Jordan would not have any leg to stand on with just like bullying. It was very selective in who he chose to believe. I read a story. I read a story yesterday about Human Robert Perish Robert Perez. I'll never with you because I have rings. Michael said I'll go kick your you know what she said. I took two steps toward him and say no. You're not Michael. I never had another problem with Michael. You see Michael has elected as Charles. Barkley said he had selected bullying who you knew who the bully and who who could and who he. Why didn't he go if he's what you said he? Why not go to J Ryan Door Matter? Powerplay go to Baylor skill. I won't do the right. Listen I want you to put it in big yellow lead? Gen Door if you bring bail back out comeback. He didn't do that because there is no nobody can bully. A billionaire allows you on their level. Michael Jordan was on their level. Now maybe now if he was a billionaire and you can transport him back he'd be thirty four and half the amount of money that has okay. We can have a different argument but at that time. Jerry Reinsdorf look at it like you still a player. I pay. He'll salary you're rich. Are Wealthy there the difference between the two? That's why he couldn't William feel you can make it all you want to heated world there. Pick a coach but that's what bullies do they let guys they'd be with week in they pick on you. He Knew Jerry. Krause had more power with their new organization than he did and Soda. Jerry Reinsdorf because he owned the team. So that's what he did with it. You can dress it up. You can dress up all your vote to share that you're and you said absolutely nothing but at the end of the day of this that's got Amazon. She'll saying absolutely nothing ever guy. The spin master happened. Everybody feel filled him still convinced him. Let's both take a year. Let's quit. Let's walk into the sunset together and Phil kept walking and walking and walked all the way to La. To coach Shaq and Kobe Go. Michael took three years off. A May the most mentally tool the guy that has the strongest mind in the history of sports gas spy HE GOT. Do let us strength. He got run a muck were different. Jordan. I'm confused now. How can a man that has the strongest man the most indomitable will in the history of team fourth? Maybe it's fourth bearden. How could he let a man do? He'll skip out now. You need you need Shantha lying. I'm won't turn it back over to you. You tell me how does may that have intestinal puerto too bad kind of my give? Do I need to hear from you right now? Because as opposed to Lebron James he actually looked up to and respected coaches head coaches. The blonde is always coached his own team. I'M GONNA quit saying I resent it because in the end. All you've got now is bully. Oh now I can dismiss him as a bully. It's the biggest crock you've ever tried to sell on this show before it's all you've got in the end it's over. Thank you last dance. It's the last dance for you. And Your Lebron is the goat argument. Which is the weakest argument in the history of sports but skip you magazine by tooth? Pain can't be true because the person is a great athlete. He must be a great person. He must be a great leader in every great attribute comes along with being a great athlete when you and I both know that's not true but you try to play that because you won't Michael Jordan to be this. This ideally figure this perfect. There's more with Michael. No clock. Yes you don't buy told you on the star. I told you before. The documentary started. It's going to come across that. He's mercilus ruthless heartless method to madness. Six Championships in six tries was six. Mvp's with a team. That was not that talented. That is basketball genius. That is goat as a two. The two little white guy who food bully the two guys. He couldn't move it. Broker for trending story of the day sponsored by Kiosk. Tough and ready lineup. All wheel drive. Suv's give it everything. Well the final episodes of Michael Jordan's documentary the last dance air this Sunday. I do not want this to and Shannon. What do you wanna see from both episodes nine and ten? Oh come on. What do you WANNA see baby? Bonus track about the watching today. Wash right I mean he daybreak now. If I'm not mistaken skit was he on the Roster. Ninety four so. I'm trying to figure out how does anything from Nineteen Ninety four season. How does that make the last dance only Jamaica Scottie? Pippen look bad because he wouldn't go in and take the take a pass the ball into Tony Cuco take. Toni Kukoc to take the last shot. How did that make the last day of what they gotta do might might leave it there within Birmingham but somehow that made that made it so I just want to see some of the don't bonus bonus track like your Washington easy because they were very happy to go see to see him play? No give I think in all honesty all seriously. All jokes aside. I don't really know what I'm looking for scale. I WANNA know how he's obviously. The last shot is going to be in there. But I just WANNA know so we we've seen the maturation of my and we. We've seen the behind the scenes of of how guys guys motivated scale seeing. Would just it would just motivation. It's motivation e could be construed as bullying all that aside. I don't really know where it's going to go now scale. I really don't other than the last shot. Which that's your favorite moment in sports history. 'cause you purchase. You purchased that photo to see Michael Jordan. Hold that poll. You probably got him. Decided you bet you did? I bet you got him. Decided you thank you but now you're gonNA give us now so I I really don't. I really honestly all honesty skill. I do not have any idea what these last two episodes is going to encapsulate. Because you got to our and basically the shot so I don't know where we're going from here okay to your first point semi serious. Yes he did come back after three years lost the last three years of his prime age. Thirty five thirty six and thirty seven. He did not play basketball. Why I don't know that's where I'd like to hear but he did come back. This is the last dance. This is about the nineteen ninety eight season the final one in Chicago but four years later he came back at age thirty eight and thirty nine to Washington. He played okay. He wasn't in the best shape. He did smoke too many cigars. At that point he averaged twenty three and six the first year and twenty six the second year. It wasn't pathetic but it wasn't pretty but the point is he had he through he has moments here and there but whatever this is about ninety eight this is about how it ended and why it ended and again. I was there in ninety eight as the columnist Chicago Tribune in what was often perplexing to me was. Michael spoke a lot to the media without really speaking. He was the master of and he could say a whole lot without saying much of anything. Unless you really backed into a corner with a pointed question as I did about Michael Phil keeps saying that. It's a done deal. You're just GONNA quit if when he has to walk out the back door and Michael said that's fills opinion. That's when I had some hope okay. Maybe Michael isn't going to just go with. Fill out the back door but the point is he's rarely spoken his heart on. What really happened so Shannon. I'm hoping that we get to see that guy who's now kicked back in that easy chair in these interviews guys and he's got a little little something in his glass and they keep filling it. You're and I want him to so to speak. Let his hair down. I know he doesn't have a whole lot of air left but whatever there let it down. Let us see what's inside you. Let us here on the basketball court. What happened in the? What's called the flu game? The Classic Flu Game at Utah and the ninety seven finals led us here. What was in your heart soul? Mind against the Pacers it Shannon. I was there a covered all seven of those games in the conference finals and ninety eight it was a hell aleisha contest between a team coached by. Larry Bird who was the coach of the year in the NBA that year and the Star was you know Reggie Miller but it was deep in talent and firepower rick. Smits the to Davis's Obviously Chris Mullin Jalen Rose Travis Best Mark Jackson. It was a loaded basketball team there. 'cause Michael and company a whole lot of problems. The home team won all seven games of that series including the Bulls winning game. Seven eighty eight eighty three at home. It was not down drag out. Reggie says that the Pacers we see the previews for what's coming up episode. Nine Reggie says that the Pacers just better than the Bulls. He might have been right about that. Except for that. One guy on the Bulls and then we come to the last shot game at Utah. And I've told you Scotty was sick before the game. And then he wrenched his back on early wide open dunk and he was virtually useless. The rest of the game scored eight points in that game. Michael scored forty five while the whole rest of the team scored forty two. So what's going on in his head during that game because they were pretty sure they wouldn't have Scotty for a potential game seven Utah so it is Michael. Say and it's do or die now. I have to make this shot on Brian. Russell I gotta go steal the ball source. Recall them alone. I got to close the deal now because we might not be able to close it in game seven. I want to hear that and finally as we talked about to start the show. Shannon I to hear does he have any regrets for not going to Jerry REINSDORF and saying. Hey let's make a deal. Let's compromise here. I'll stay. I Know Phil and Jerry or do not add vitamin anymore. The bridges burned. I get it. They can't co exist anymore. So give me a made man give me Doug Collins. Back is my my coach next year. Don't give me Tim Floyd Jerry. Krause had fallen in love with Tim. Floyd he's a nice guy. Got To know tim very well the next year but Tim was a rising college basketball coach. Done really well at New Orleans and then at Iowa state they'd go into three straight. Nc double as he was a fine young coach who then was a disaster. The next three years without Michael and got fired in the fourth year so the point was if Michael said give me somebody with some NBA experience. Who I could respect. I'll come back for two more years. Well I want to know Michael. Talk about that in episode ten on Sunday night. I WANNA know I wanna Eric from the goats mapped what happened. Why did it happen? Yeah you're right skip. That would be interesting if he will roof leg back and say you know what one of my biggest regrets is that I did not go talk to Jay arrived or and I did not get him. Try to change my own brain and bringing back still. Look we look. It's hard for me to believe Jerry Reinsdorf in Phil Jackson. They don't have to communicate. They're not communicating about game plans. Y'All one corner of now than the other and so we don't have to just eight you you get the players. Do what contract all that stuff. Let Bill work with the team. You guys stay out of each other hair. So that's the way it's going to be so yeah it'd be interesting if he's going to be that reflective but Michael is the God this. I have any regrets about anything that I've done in. My career is basketball wise so that was the thing that would be something that I would like to hear. Does he likes me. What could have been like? I said I believe Jerry Reinsdorf. Schumer allow someone outside of the organization. Crumlin within two-tier this thing down if the PEYSER OR SOMEBODY UTAH. Whomever becomes Tonioli. If somebody be I got no problem with that but Dole to Bethany. Now that's going to be the forgot about the blue game. Yeah and also remember this. I think it was like episode. One Jerry Reinsdorf on camera for the documentary saying Jerry. Krause told me that in ninety eight the team had gotten too old. So crowd said convinced. Reinsdorf who also owned the White Sox and didn't have that much rocus on the Bulls. He just Jerry. Krause run that basketball operation but the point is Jerry Krause Convinced Jerry Reinsdorf. Did the team was too old so Jerry. Krause could start it over inch showed that he could win without Michael Jordan Baloney Shannon. Look at the ages of the players. It was not too old Scotty was thirty. Two Rodman was thirty six but he was a below the rim rebounder. He's still had basketball player in him. Ron Harper winter. Two Middle Rings as a starter for the Lakers. And then we go all the way down the roster. Toni Kukoc Twenty nine. He's six man of the year. That team could come back for two more years. I believe it would have been favored to win the next two championships. I believe it would have. Who knows if it would? I don't know would. They have gotten hurt. Would they have broken down? Would Michael of run out of psychological gas? Maybe but really believe that team was physician to win two more championships or leave. Get to the fight of you like them. You like them over San Antonio David and David got it. Yeah I forgot about the Blue Game I think the thing is we looked. Might he has such iconic moment. You know he had the blue game. He had the last shot in ninety eight. He had the acrobatic layup in his first NBA Finals against so he has moguls. Bet You will never ever forget because you'll remember where you were because you remember Scotty to court. And he's sitting down down he applauds downs. Give you remember that you remember him? Only this you remember him having the ball. Tanya data Baldur's right hand all of a sudden. He's nine do that. I will do so you remember that. It's just that the moment are so iconic that you will never forget. You know even though he he was great autumn here he had some mood that skill he started wants out of the bath getting three people around him in somehow he lays the ball gets fouled. He has moment but if moments in those games that you will never ever forget it. Sounds like you're making the case. He was the goat and isn't the goat skill. There you go why why you do. I'd I'd get a credit. I got out of bed. Probably a hundred grand own Jordan Shoe. And you've got people here convinced that. Why did he pay me all the money back so I could really hate the money back but he joins I got. I need you guys to do the same for you guys. Let's get back to talking some football because pro football focus release. They're all decade team. Top one hundred and one players topping the list was Tom Brady followed by Aaron. Donald and drew brees to out the top three. The next quarterback on the list was Shannon's guy. Aaron Rodgers down at number six Shannon. Got a problem with this do great. Yeah I got a big problem. Big Problem I don't see I'll scenario with your region be ranked to add a Roger. Skip if you look at it. Air Rogers had the super bowl super bowl. Mvp and two regular season the MVP in this decade drew. Brees DOES NOT SKIP playoffs. Drew brees four and six Aaron Rodgers. This and seven drew. Brees has twenty one touchdowns ten inception. Aaron Rodgers their thirty six and eleven. And if you look at the The championship game but lost two thousand nineteen they gave up thirty seven point to the forty niners. Two Thousand Sixteen. Forty four to the Falcons and we know what happened in overtime against the adult appeal onside kick so if I just look at it and understand that drew brees has the numbers. But he's throwing the ball over a thousand more time than Aaron Rodgers in this decade and the seven to nine a pro bowl appearance. Aaron Rodgers missed a half a season but if you look at what they accomplish Rogers had six division titles res at four you look at the Super Bowl appears you look at NFC. Championship game appearances. Best four to one in Roger Favor so I'm surprised. That drew brees is so much higher than Aaron Rodgers. Another one that I thought it was like it. But then when you look at still. Jj Watt I think what happened. Jj's Jeff is that he started off like gangbusters but you look at over the last three or four years. He's been nick. He's missed a substantial amount of time and I think Erin dollars passed him so I was a little surprised. Would I've been disappointed? Jj Watt would have been a little higher. No but I understand what they took into account because the last three years three or four years. He's missed a lot of time with Andrew but the biggest problem that I have is with Aaron Rodgers. Being way below drew brees. Wait a SEC. Reading in our living room here to rule. Tom Brady is number one on this list. European Air Rogers is sixth. You have repeatedly told me the greatest thrower of the football. The greatest ever is Aaron bleeding. Rogers you have told me. He is transcendent that he is considering. He has been better than Tom Brady. So why didn't you go right to the top of the list and say Aaron Rodgers should not just be above drew brees? He should be above Tom. Brady you did not say that because I don't think you really believe that. Still skip in this decade. Brady has been the five super bowls. He's one free his number speak for itself. I'm not thinking big won. The division every single year skilled. Tom Brady deserve to be the quarterback in this decade. That I've made my point. The problem that I have is drew brees it. Three in Aaron Rodgers is six. I believe that should be reversed. I stand by then you try to bring them but we're not talking about Brady. See you always get along with. Is You do deflect America Shannon. Sharpe just admitted that Tom Brady is better than Aaron Rodgers. It's over. He is lost the basketball argument and the football goat argument in the same week. It's over for Lebron James. It's over for Aaron bleeping Rogers if I might. I read just a couple of lines from the capsule on pro football focus on Tom Brady ranked number one. He has a single season grade pro. Football has ever given a quarterback that was back in twenty sixteen. That's not that long ago. He has the greatest four year. Stretch pro football focus ever-graded that was from. Twenty fifteen to twenty eight eighteen. That's not that long ago and pro. Football Focus says. Tom Brady defines clutch. I've been trying to tell you that. For four years in the fourth quarter and overtime he's still has the highest pro football focus grade of the decade and beyond that as great as he's been in the clutch he's been doing it without making many mistakes. That's what truly makes him. Special says pro football focus. I know the stats can be hard to swallow to to sort of. Let it compute but think about this. Tom Brady and the decade had by grade. Only one hundred and twenty four order called turnover word the plays. That's out of six thousand one hundred fifty one. That's two percent of his plays in the decade. Were turn by pro football focus turnover worthy. That's outrageously low. That's by far the best. That's why he is the unquestioned goat of the National Football League which brings me to Sivvy's th-ranked Aaron Rodgers. It makes the Point Shannon. And I'll you this late. Twenty ten and all of two thousand eleven. Aaron Rodgers was sensational. He made a case for about a year and a half that he was the goat but that was a long time ago. And that was the end of Air Rogers as you knew and loved him and pro-football concludes in its capsule on Aaron Rodgers. What holds him back from the very top of this list is that he just couldn't sustain that level and over the past few seasons has sunk deeper and deeper into a Rut of some bad habits. That's pro football. Because that's not me so they are. Validating what I've told you he's been in decline over the last three seasons. Lots of bad debts. They Greg my man and lower on pro football focus. Will you better ask something smart? Because I think you're in trouble though number enjoyable. I'm glad at pro football focus. Put this out. But they just didn't start playing quarterback in two thousand fifteen through twenty eighteen. So it'd be interesting to see if they degrade some Peyton manning years some of Dan Marino years and so. We could see if those are comparable to Tom Brady sees they. Did you know in a in a decade? Who TURN THE BALL OVER TOM? Brady or Aaron Rodgers is a simple question yes L. exception. Who add more intersection? Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers central question. It wasn't a statement. I got a simple answer. They have a chart on folks. You can look it up over the decade. Tom Brady had by far. The fewest turnover. Worthy plays Aaron Rodgers. To your point was second on that list but by far the RAHM BRADY. None Elena tournament a workplace. I'm talking about turn over talking about smelling donor until my eating donut. Now where did you got a doughnut? Not Smell doughnuts. Get Win Guy. Turn it over the most. Sometimes you throw one to the other team in the other team interception. That happened. Not Kidding. Yeah I was wondering what Bayfield did you know what I wanted to make a fake last night with a baked potato and Yada Yada we. Why did you feel better? You keep telling me you to the guy. He's drops it. Did he have more interceptions than Aaron? Rodgers a simple no or simple yard. Ginny cannot treat a witness as a hostile witness. The question Tom Brady had the fewest turnover. Worthy plays sad crow football focus. This is their list and they ranked Aaron Rodgers sixth because fell off after twenty ten slash. Eleven case closed end of argument game over. If I'm not mistaken so fell off so much that he won the MVP in two thousand fourteen years later in this decade billups. Twenty two twenty eleven yet. He won the MVP twenty fourteen. So how motivated. Well A lot. The last three years in fact it fell off so much. They decided to penalize him all the way down to six on the list and they admitted what holds them back from being at the top of the list is he just couldn't sustain Shannon. You're clinging to the past you're holding onto what used to be and screaming before your very eyes is the fact that Aaron Rodgers has not been very good over the last three years and even last year he was eighteenth. Qbr In twenty thirty and completion percentage that will sly. That's not going to make you number one in the decade. Still but if you look at it like that that's like saying you saying bolt fill up okay because he doesn't run nine five eight any one Olympic Matt Eight. Oh what he fell off. He's not saying well no. He's not he's still waiting scam. You I mean you compared to that when you compare it to those historically great see them you the likelihood of somebody going forty forty five and six skill. Komo now. What does the case? Tom Brady pillow. 'cause he's never had another season in which you went pithier eight so he fell out if you hold if you hold petro home to that mythical five thousand fifty thousand thirteen in session you judge him by. Bet You're gonNA say he fell off you. Judge paid about fifty five in ten. He doesn't have fifty four hundred yards. Yeah he fell off skip Komo. He's still had better numbers last year than Tom Brady. And He fell off in. Tom Brady still play that clip. I can't understand that I just don't know how a guy has more touchdown you're innocent. A completion percentage a better. Qbr Better Yard. He fell off but the guy that he had better numbers than feel falling on. I'm confused say so I ask you one last simple question cars. Simple yes or simple. No should Aaron Rodgers ranked above. Tom Brady at number one on this list. Shannon Sharpe simple yes or no due to my attorney had informed me. I have the right to the protection so I use my writing. Yup Game is siding with Lebron and the goat debate perk tweeted a side by side comparison of Lebron having averaged more points rebounds assists and a higher shooting percentage in his last three finals losses and Jordan had in his last three finals win so Shannon. Does this prove lover on the go? Apart as they poured go the great job of highlighting. Kind what I try to do. But I think the thing of Ginny People Again. And they chose them aside and they're not moving outside of these big compelling a compelling numbers when you look at he's averaging and bring more point three and a half points five rebounds five more shoot a higher percentage and he's losing these Games but I forget the being of looking at the other day the twenty fifteen sixteen and seventeen are ranked the highest opponents. That either Michael or Lebron could possibly play Bible the talk seven that were. They graded the teams believe. Michael Play in the team. That Lebron play Lebron had five hundred seven. Now Mind you the twenty eighteen. The second year the Kevin Durant there they did he make now we know what Kevin Durant represents bad team did not even make it. Let me just a second so in other words. Lebron James in Finals Competition has faced chopper up on his bed. One Michael Jordan. He loved all these dasm bags that he loved the point out. I'm just pointing out stats and facts. What what these articles that. Lebron James Competition in final have been upper than magic of Michael Jordan in finals. I mean I don't really know what you've been asking me to do. A man averages thirty five basically Levin and tens and he's Ludovic. I don't really know what else what you're going to ask a man to do. I really don't the article in question was on the website. Five thirty eight. That's what you read. That analysis. Correct the overall premise was Michael. Jordan's playoff opponents were tougher than Lebron playoff opponents. That's because in Michael's Day. The east was the beast and Lebron's the east was the least so he had just easy pass. He had superhighways to the finals. I will give you that. Golden State was the toughest finals opponent. Either Lebron or Michael Ever had to contend with I give you that but remember spurs remember. Lebron had his biggest meltdown against the Dallas Mavericks who were ranked by five thirty eight. The easiest finals opponent. Either Lebron or Michael. Ever play the twenty eleven mavericks grown easiest finals and the chosen one became the frozen one in that series. Michael never melted down in any series of any round of the playoffs. So let's go back to Kendricks idea. His his panel that he put on his twitter. It's so misleading because it's a bunch of Phony Baloney here's what's not included in those numbers and Kendrick. It was a nice try but you've failed again to make Lebron the goat he's the Sony. Goat W- rated PG and here's why in the Final Bulls three peat. They played Seattle. Utah AND UTAH. The games were played much more physically thin and the scores were far lower in the Lebron golden state scores so there are far more points to be scored against Golden State. Because it's more run and GUN AGAINST SEATTLE IN UTAH. Here are the the average scores of those finals against Utah. It was ninety. Three to eighty nine was the average score. The first Utah Series the files. The files that average was eighty eight eighty seven then in these three peat finals against Utah. The average was eighty eight to eighty so all. The scores are down in the eighties. But guess what so the average score of those three peat finals for Michael? The second three peat was ninety two eighty six. He's scored thirty five percent of the ninety points. Now you look at Lebron against Golden State. The average score of all three of those finals was one twelve to one. Oh three many more points scored by both sides. Lebron scored thirty four percent of those points. So Michael Thirty five percent of his three points and they won a Lebron thirty four percent of more points scored and they lost two. They lost in six Damian five and then in soar they got swept rescue. But this is why you never make that. Now we're Tom Brady that. They don't attack the quarterback the wide receivers have more freedom. They roll the ball more. No no no I just WanNa know because every all you do is talk about with the pace. The style of Pave Lebron getting more shots so this is why his numbers. But you let them do that for Brady you say. They don't attack the quarterback like they did in the seventies eighties nineties. You Donald say they cut and grab the receivers that the receiver. They're the defenders receiver. And they call you. Don't make that argument. All you do is highlight. What Tom Brady is doing? But every time I give you number about Lebron you try to highlight. Why he's doing it. You won't just give him credit. Save man this Guy Great. He played unbelievable. You always try to find a caveat you try to find reasons to why again our audience is hip to Shannon Sharpe. They get it. When he's losing an argument he always has to change the subject so all of a sudden you own the run with some cold hard facts and you say what about Tom Brady. This isn't about Tom. Brady this is about Kendrick Perkins trying to make a weak case. A lame chase. That Lebron is better than Michael. Because there's some bogus stats misleading analyze. So I would have made sure eucharistic so in other words. Lebron James is really not scoring thirty five points right so thirty five or is it. Not Thirty five that twelve assists or not if it ten rebounds or just need to know if that yes okay look. I gave you that. Scores higher he scoring more points. I also gave you this if you remember. I've said this many times on disputed in twenty fifteen the greatest three Games Lebron ever played this playoff lights games. One two and three of the twenty-fifth the first files against Golden State before they had Kevin Durant Lebron had lost Kevin love before the final started. He Lost Kyrie in overtime of game. One and what did he do? He put that on his back and carried them to a two games to one lead with game sore in his house. In Cleveland. If you win that game I'm going to be backed into a corner because you're going to be on your way to the greatest seat of your career you by yourself are on the way to beating. Golden State with Steph and clay and Draymond Iggy for that matter and what happened in Game Four. Lebron spit the MIT or swallowed the bid. He came up smaller and his own house. He Shot Seven for twenty two that game. He went five of ten from the free throw line any disappeared and everybody told me back on. I take just ran out of gas is the fittest athlete in Sports. That's all I ever hear doors for. He was running out of gas after last. Repeat that you say to Michael. Say they're a one method? Michael say one way to Baz why he took time off. He was running again. That's what he's saying. I didn't call him that so now he ran out of gas chain took all year to have Paul of them. Yes or no did it have put in. I want you to know that I'm not saying that. Seattle or Utah in the last three. Pete we're golden state but they were really good basketball teams because Seattle that year had the second best record to the Bulls in ninety six when the Bulls were sensational. They went seventy two and ten and Seattle was with one sixty four games. We're second best in. I best obviously in the West and then Utah was the second best record in ninety seven and then Utah tied the Bulls Ninety eight for the first best record. So don't tell me. They weren't quality opponents. There was nothing underdog about either of those teams. They were really tough minded very good. Well coached basketball teams skill. If you don't mind me asking the blazers how many hall of Famers did it have the blazers? How many did they have on Seattle? And how many DID THEY HAVE ON UTAH? You'll mind me asking Clyde Drexler. One Seattle Gary One Utah to stock into below. Okay let's go to the Spurs. They got bored. I have four. Tony Parker Manu Ginobili. Tell Donkey wild litter. That's rice then a lot as well right. You always tell me that Tony Parker and monitor completely overrated there Broccoli and they don't blow all saying that she told me scared talks to property to skip. Stop their first of all. You know part of go into the hall of fame because he would finals. Mvp marlins going into the hall of fame because those rings and if and his international play he led Argentina to the gold medal. You know he's going Kuwa- delivered to time. Different the player of the year to be tim donkey with right in in the top of the head of shack. Coby so stop. Stop it right now. They got four hall of fame.
Full Show (Michael Jordan, Aaron Rodgers, Mike Tomlin x James Harrison, Brady vs. Rodgers, Rams, LeBron James)
"Welcome to the undisputed podcast. I'm your host Jerry Taft. This podcast is the full show from today's episode of undisputed from start to finish. They've got a busy slate. So Skip Shannon. Let's get to it. Good Horning welcomed undisputed is. Are you guys doing today? I'm with Phyllis and Shannon Sharpe and I'm ready to get this show going slower my journey. I am so ready to get going wait guilt. Vela's Shannon Sharpe. You've been in trouble all week and I believe you're going to be in more trouble starting right now. Hopefully after Sunday which will be one of the happiest days of my life. Weakest Stop This blasphemy one Goat James. That's what I want to have Shannon. You Defending Your Guy. All Week Good news for us we also have Eric Dickerson joining us later on in the show but you know what only appropriate that we start by talking about Michael Jordan and those bowls because it's hard to believe but we're going to see the end of the last dance. It concludes this Sunday and skip. You taste social media video to be released on Sunday afternoon in which you're gonNA great detail about two big one on one interviews. You did late in the bulls ninety eight season with GM Jerry Krause and head coach Phil Jackson author. Which you said Liu your mind so skip I wanna ask you your final takeaway from covering the Bulls in nine hundred ninety eight and that's the ginny in all my years in this business. I've never found myself in something so baffling so con- sounding so troubling and ultimately so mind blowing is what I found myself in the middle of in Nineteen Ninety eight as the columnist for the Chicago Tribune watching the last dance from the inside out. Big Sit down interviews in late March with Jerry Krause the GM and then in early May during the Charlotte playoff series. Big Sit down in Phil Jackson's office with the coach of the Bulls and what I heard from each of these two men whose relationship obviously had completely deteriorated was just difficult for me to process and I remind everybody I had just come to Chicago before that season straight from Dallas Texas where I'd written three books about the Dallas Cowboys. The second of those books predicted that Jerry Jones would soon sire Jimmy Johnson that was after their first super bowl. Obviously they won a second together. And then Jerry Fire Jimmy is. My Book. Predicted in the final chapter would happen. Everybody told me I was out of my mind then but I said No. This is predictable that blow up. I got this one. I I still can't get and Shannon. Here's the point that playoff run. I caught Michael after one game and I told him that. That sill was just openly saying we were all presuming. That have still got fired if his contract didn't get renewed and we knew that was going to happen because he had fallen completely. Apart that everybody presumed that Michael was going to go to and sill was openly saying to everybody including me in that big sit down interview that Michael had run out of gas in nineteen ninety eight and because of his loyalty to feel he was just going to flat out retire. Remember we're talking about the greatest player. Who Ever played in any team sport willing to walk away in the heart of his prime or at least at the end of his prime and missing his age. Thirty five thirty six thirty seven season by just sitting out which is what he ultimately as we know did. But when I asked Michael About Sills contention that that Michael would just up and retire Michael really coldly replied to me. That's feels opinion. And that was the first sign of lives and hope that I heard from Michael Jordan and it made me very happy because there was no reason for Michael to go to and as we all know. Jerry Krause had plucked Phil Jackson Out of obscurity. He was a coach for the Albany patrons. Argument is assistant coach. Then when Phil Kissed Up and buddied up to Jerry Krause. Jerry fell in love with Phil and finally replaced Doug Collins with Phil Jackson. Doug had coach Michael for three of his early years and yet once Phil got hold of the reins of the organization and they won their first championship. Silk completely turned on Jerry. Just duped him to get the job and began to mistreat just the way Michael. Scottie shamed and ridiculed little tiny the penguins. I call him Jerry Krause. So Jerry Krause was living in one or to get even with Phil we get that and he already had a handshake agreement with Tim's Loin from Iowa state to be the new coach the Bulls so I- publicly encouraged Michael to just forget about Phil. Forget about Tim Floyd. They called him. Paints Lloyd off the Rock Group. That was her sarcastic. Term for because fill-up employed and I thought Michael could then go to Jerry Krause and say hey look I realized the bridges burn between Jerry and Phil. I got it. But they'll never coexist again. So let's forget about Phil but don't give me Tim. Floyd or pink Floyd gives me a real coach bring back Doug Collins. Obviously Doug ultimately want with Michael for his last HURRAH YEARS. Thirty eight thirty nine years old in Washington give me Doug Collins back give me anybody who's a made man in the NBA is a head coach. Anybody with credibility stature and experience and I'll go forward why Michael wouldn't do that to this day haunts me because that was the move to be made and I believe Jerry reinsdorf would have compromised with that move. Keep Jerry Krause is legitim- bring in another coach. That Michael Signs off on not Tim Floyd but as we all know Michael stuck by his guns inexplicably which is why can't wait for maybe episode. Ten of the last dance. I want to hear what Michael says about this because I wrote to conclude my column in May and June that year. I said the worst sports thought I could ever think is Michael Jordan. Gone at age thirty five and still still coaching at fifty three. And as we all know Phil went right on it to go near it. Right onto the Lakers and wound up coaching. Shaq and Colby to three straight championships. And what did I always call fill? It everybody called him the master. I called him the spin master. I never trusted him. I never trusted his sort of spin. Golly holdover Michael Michael was very impressionable when it came to fill an believed. That seal talked or almost duped Michael into retiring at a loyalty to fill when he did not need to sill. Didn't retire film went on one three more championships in a row. Shaq and Kobe three beaten. La So I believe that Michael also got taken for a ride by the spin master as I call him an Indian. It was the most confounding and actually the saddest story I've ever covered. Well let me start with your before. I make my escape. The reason why he didn't to Jerry Krause because Jerry Reinsdorf with two people that he can bully because you know why they had more power within organization then him. So you can bully. Steve Kerr and Scotty Rail and some of those others. Because they're player. You are the best player so you have. You're able to to reign over them with your tenure with your plate but you notice she can never bully J. Krav every player that he basically said he wanted skip Envisat documented. Jerry. Crowd went and got somebody totally opposite. If Jerry Reinsdorf it like I said Jerry. Krause took a lot of criticism took a lot of heat but Jerry. Krause who just the she'll this Jerry Reinsdorf because he could make all this a moot point he could have say Jerry. You'RE GONNA stand down on this. We're going to keep this thing rolling until the wheels fall off but when Jerry Krause Jerry Reinsdorf and say this is what I WANNA do okay. You see what happens to it happened again. Rest his soul with a volume polian in Washington. You see when people have more power than you. You can't bully them that's why he couldn't really J. Crowds. He could like you said he could have but he knew what the answer were. Jerry Krause made it abundantly clear. He can go eighty two in with all of his layout gave about thirty and he's still not coming back. And if Michael Retired Michael earned the right to do whatever he wants to do so it will be moved boy so he was like. I'm not wasting my time because there might be a time later in life. I'm GONNA need that energy. I won't need that breath that I wasted J. Across and Jerry Reinsdorf. That's why he didn't do it. Skipped you know why he didn't do it because he couldn't believe them he couldn't put them in a corner like hello. It's about winning. So are you mean to tell me? He said winning. And if you don't WanNa wear get league in the way of moving. Don't do it there have now we do here. Look at the end of the first repeat. He said that he would exhausted. He was tired of the media. Barrage the constant barrage of cosmic criticism. And it started to you know. They started to say well. What happened with your father was a direct correlation of what transpired with Michael in his personal life. I don't believe that but because of criticism scale you mean me tough if the most mentally tough guy in the history of sports couldn't handle media Chris wow imagine what he would have to go through in the social media age today. Imagine what Lebron James. Here's constantly there was no debate. Show there was no twenty. Four Hour News Cycle on fourth in ninety eight. Ninety seven with Michael was in his heyday in him. Prime can you imagine the criticism of some of the thing that was reporting going gambling of the day about? What would that be the night? Outdoor the David Bore playoff game. The constant golfing. Can you imagine the criticism? Imagine a guy player now skipping basketball be Lebron James Kevin Durant Steph. Curry would be covered casino before championship. Game or EPA championship game ream. He got the name he was caught. Everybody wrote about it. Everybody was everywhere and Lapointe the criticism. The BERAR remember magic. Say of Y'all keep being the guy you're going to write him away from the game. Imagine what Lebron has been going through since. He was seventeen because of criticism. I just saying skill. The thing was agree with you on this. You and I agree you and I agree that Jerry Reinsdorf Jared Crouch should've let this thing out let all the gay run out of the car. It's it if it runs religion outside role in the middle of the season. Oh she puts it out in the middle of either but I don't believe he should have broken it up. I believe he should've let somebody else break it up. You normally air positive normally empire. They'll say you know what we're tired of lauding all this bath territory. You know what? Let's give it up normally some body from the outside convinced fixing over or within this case like the Roman empower if they'll with the INSKIP so when I look at agree believe Jerry Krause Jerry Reinsdorf to let it go but Michael Do? I believe Michael should've leaves boy going to Jerry Krause. John Gone Jerry door but I believe like you said with got it. They've never taught my they'd never tour. Michael joins contract so the likelihood of them Scotty contract and extending him when they never did that. Michael was not going to happen. Remember in the ducks. Michael says got new. Jay Across that contract Redo his contract so Michael having been with Jay across basically sits at his first year. Nineteen eighty-five if I'm not mistaken. Step Barat Thorn. He Knew Jerry. Krause brought with him back with Jerry. Krause got something in his hand skill. That was it if there was no turning back but I thought of all this yes killed. J. Across maybe you don't like him but I saw Jerry Reinsdorf jair given been portrayed very favourably in this documentary with you and I both know when you peel everything way. He was owners. How does the general manager have more control more in an organization then the owner Jerry? Reinsdorf just like he did in ninety eight when he brought peel back all that last day he said I'm bringing field back again. And not in or level land's Day five fifty our core. Well I'm breaking could've been the last day of I will do it on the okay. That's the end of the single goes back. Then he come back out and give you a another set. Maybe five Kim fifteen minutes Jay rise could have demanded of JAE crowd. Bring Peel back on call. Encore and we'll see this thing plays out but what. I'm going to take most from documentaries. Is that like I said I knew about the on court stuff but behind the scene the maniacal guy what he was willing to endure what he was willing to go through what he was willing to push his teammates to get to a level. That's what I'm most impressed with like. I said being quarantined for me to watch something other than you politics and so I've watched a lot of documentaries and so I knew Sam Cook could see just like you know Sam Cook and see but when you watch documentary you get an opportunity to see a different side of Sam. Cook that you like. I did not know exists. I did not know he had that type of relationship with Mohammed Ali. I did not know that he was in Miami that fights and he and Jim Brown I think if I'm not mistaken Mohammed Ali within a room. Together I didn't know that. So now you get an opportunity to see Michael Jordan off the court. Everybody saw him on the court specialty. You did you were covering day to day but you saw some of the things behind the scenes. I did not know I did not see that behind the scenes so that was great for me. To see is the show over. I have never heard one person talk along on undisputed in the history show. Is You just talk a whole lot of nothing? Let's get back to the first three peat and you said Oh he burned out. He couldn't take the media he baloney voice. Me When I show you agreed. I think it's my turn to talk. Now you agreed that it had to do with gambling. It was some kind of a suspension slash avis that he took off to play baseball. You agreed the first after the first couple of episodes. Yup that's what was going on your system issues about it. I'm real suspicious about it to this day. It made no sense to me. He caused himself to championships right there. So we miss those two missed a season in about three fourths of the next season and was not ready to play. Orlando obviously in the playoffs and the conference finals. And now we fast forward to Jerry REINSDORF and I I gotTa tell you I resent you calling the vote a bully. He is not a bully. He was simply the greatest leader slash motivator in the history of sports. Now one player who played with them has called him a bully. Now one player has said publicly. I hate him. I couldn't stand him. They all thought there was method to them madness all of his ridicule. Whatever held that he made some pay. It was all to make their weakness a strength and they all contributed down the stretch. And I told you yesterday I showed you that roster it was to quote the Great Lebron James. Top heavy as bleep. It was Scotty Pippin. Nothing but a raw robin to Batman and then a Rodman who barely was able to stay in bounce. Thanks to the guidance of Michael Jeffrey Jordan and after that it was just a bunch of guys that he turned into winners. He toughened all of them up. And when you say Oh Jerry Reinsdorf is the one guy. He couldn't bully Baloney. He couldn't believe him he just didn't try to use his power to power play if he had gone to public. If he'd come to me and said I need you to print this print that I went to Jerry Reinsdorf and I said Jerry pick any coach who is experienced in the NBA. Not Tim Floyd I will stay for two more years and we'll win two more championships if he had said that. That's a power-play I don't think Jerry. Reinsdorf KHUDA withstood the media beating. He would've taken under those conditions but Michael got thin. Golly he got Machiavelli and by by Phil Jackson Phil talked him into. We've gotTa do this together. We've to retire. We've got quit on them and quit together whole and still clear linear and then he goes to La and coach Shaq and Colby. Oh no still no no no. Don't don't worry about save peacoat. You like come back bring back best. Altima power play Kale Jerry. Reinsdorf strange back and let us win to now. You can't. We can't win win it. No P stores deal well. I just told you what happened. Still had turned on Krausz Krauss picked Phil and he earned on it. He duped into getting picked and getting elevated navy turned on him. Michael could not descend that Michael Body and the Spin. Master's spin so it was up to Michael. Step back and say you know what in the end krause fill? They're just to June bugs on my windshield in the final splattering on my windshield. I can go forward by myself. My team is not to hold Scotty. Went on played. Six MORE YEARS Steve. Kerr went on one two more rings. Ron Harper went on and won two. More rings with the Lakers. Every player on that team went on Dennis. Rodman went on an average ten rebounds for the Mavericks Min Fourteen. So the Lakers. They all still had plenty of gas in the tank to win two more championships. It should have been an straight championships in for Michael. Jordan would not have any leg to stand on with just like bullying. It was very selective in who he chose to believe. I read a story. I read a story yesterday about Human Robert Perish Robert Perez. I'll never with you because I have rings. Michael said I'll go kick your you know what she said. I took two steps toward him and say no. You're not Michael. I never had another problem with Michael. You see Michael has elected as Charles. Barkley said he had selected bullying who you knew who the bully and who who could and who he. Why didn't he got if he's what you said He. Why not go to J Ryan Door Matter? Powerplay go to Baylor skill. I won't do the right. Listen I want you to put it in big yellow lead? Gen Door if you bring bail back out comeback. He didn't do that because there is no nobody can bully. A billionaire allows you on their level. Michael Jordan was on their level. Now maybe now if he was a billionaire and you can transport him back he'd be thirty four and half the amount of money that has okay. We can have a different argument but at that time. Jerry Reinsdorf look at it like you still a player. I pay. He'll salary you're rich. Are Wealthy there the difference between the two? That's why he couldn't William feel you can make it all you want to heat it world there pick a coach but that's what bullies do they let guys they'd be with week in they pick on you. He Knew Jerry. Krause had more power with their new organization than he did and Soda. Jerry Reinsdorf because he owned the team. So that's what he did with it. You can dress it up. You can dress up all your vote to share that you and you said absolutely nothing but at the end of the day of this. That's got she'll saying absolutely nothing ever guy the spin master what happened. Everybody feel filled him still convinced him. Let's both take a year. Let's quit. Let's walk into the sunset together and Phil kept walking and walking and walked all the way to La to coach shack and go go. Michael took three years off. May the most mentally tool guy that has the strongest mind in the history of sports gas spy he got. Do let us strength. He got run a muck were different. Jordan. I'm confused now. How can a man that has the strongest man the most indomitable wheel in the history of team fourth? Maybe it's fourth bearden. How could he let a man do? He'll skip out now. You need you need Shantha lying. I'm won't turn it back over to you. You tell me how does may that have intestinal puerto too bad kind of my give? Do I need to hear from you right now? Because as opposed to Lebron James he actually looked up to and respected coaches head coaches. The blonde is always coached his own team. I'M GONNA quit saying I resent it because in the end. All you've got now is bully. Oh now I can dismiss him as a bully. It's the biggest crock you've ever tried to sell on this show before it's all you've got in the end it's over. Thank you last dance. It's the last dance for you. And Your Lebron is the goat argument. Which is the weakest argument in the history of sports but skip you magazine by tooth? Pain can't be true because the person is a great athlete. He must be a great person. He must be a great leader in every great attribute comes along with being a great athlete when you and I both know that's not true but you try to play that because you won't Michael Jordan to be this. This ideally figure this perfect. There's more with Michael no clock. Yes you don't I told you on the star. I told you before. The documentary started. It's going to come across that. He's mercilus ruthless heartless method to madness. Six Championships in six tries was six. Mvp's with a team. That was not that talented. That is basketball genius. That is goat as a two. The two little white guy who food bully the two guys he could move it talk by giants first-round pick from last year de'andre Baker and seahawks corner went and Dunbar while they were both accused of armed robbery in Florida and warrant has been issued for their arrest our according to the warrant now Baker and Dunbar rob guests of money and jewellery at a cookout on Wednesday Shannon here reaction to the story. This is just baffling to me. Is that all your life. You work just can't leave these environments. If you listen to a lot of guys store especially the African American guys that make professional sports. They do everything they possibly could to leave that environment to leave that type of situation make good get mom get dad get others out of that situation so they don't have to go back there. I'm compute reported that they had law they were. They were gambling earlier. They lost money and they returned a day or two later to recoup the losses. So I'm computer. You don't want to lose money. Don't gamble your first round. Pick you got gotTA contract worth over ten million dollars and now all of a sudden you WANNA turn up to it you to turn to Jack Boy. GonNa try to hit a legal somebody. What are you thinking is simple and they show up with no mask simple. There's a civil lots of shady stuff like this. No no face no case no name. No BLAME SKIP. Everybody knew who they were scared. How can I go by bill talking about stick it on? Somebody's kill everybody who I got no faced off with. Nba Playoffs. Try to do a hold up. He was saying put Taller in Detroit. And it's like that too he like. Nah that ain't me and it was the scale you do there. And then you you leave in a Mercedes' Abi on W. Who JACKET PEOPLE IN? Lambo no sense and you be worried about a commission you've got to worry about the Dior Broward County Dade County somewhere. That's what you need to be worried about skipping reported that some teams took Baker up their board because of attitude because a personality. If I can you believe it or not. Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity skill level. You do this. Just chalk it up to the game. We've all those money be a bagels or playing Playing car the role. We all love. Money's that's a part of it but to go back and try to recoup your bet way. Oj OJ here. I know I know exactly what you're talking about. I brought that up to somebody on the show early this morning sounds just like Oj all over again. That's my money my stuff my memorabilia. I'M GONNA go get her back with guns brush. Probably not not a good idea. Okay no so these stories. Tear me apart. Because it's possible that in a flash point of a moment in like five minutes both of these young men through their lives away. It's possible we don't know how it's all going to fall out. All we know for sure. Is that arrest? Warrants have been issued against these two and one is against the Andre Baker for four counts of armed robbery with a firearm and four counts of aggravated assault with a firearm. And Quinton Dunbar. Just got four counts of armed robbery with a firearm. There were some mixed accounts. Did he have a gun or not? Quinton Dunbar. I don't know we don't know all those facts yet. We just know this is not A. It's just good going to come of this and is a horrible look and just to remind everybody of the stature of these two young men de'andre Baker won the Jim Thorpe Award while Georgia for the best defensive back in America he was first team all American and he was a late first round draft choice of the New York football giants number thirty in the first round and he got good money. You got to sign five point seven million signing bonus. His guarantees are supposed to be up to nine million. It's a decent contract. You're making pretty good nine. That a lot of people your age not laking. He's only twenty. Two years of age. Clinton done bar was actually undrafted and by the way. Both of the young men are from as you point out born and raised in Miami D. Andre Baker went to North Western high school. Quinton Dunbar went to booker. T. Washington in Miami. Then Quinton Dunbar went to Florida undrafted but obviously as a redskin rose to prominence and last year pro football focus rank Quinton Dunbar. The second best cornerback in all of Football. He was on the rise. He had just been traded to Seattle. And if I might if you'll give me just a second Shannon to open up my phone. Here's a text. I got last night from Rob Ryan. Obviously Rex's on the show a lot last year year ago. Rob Was the defensive backfield coach in Washington. So he knows Quinton Dunbar very well and he said this quote from an listen rob is a straight shooter. There's no bs in going on here. He said Quinton is a great kid. Very smart in studied all the time. He was the only one in the secondary that knew the opponent. I recommended him to a friend of mine in Seattle meaning to trade for him which they did and he said he was just entering his prime he reminded me of Nandi. Awesome law in again. Nobody failed once he got his money and went to Philly. We know that but there was a time an Oberlin. Nominee was considered a top cornerback. Okay so this stature. Yes D- Top. This is the stature. Were dealing with with Andrei and Clinton and then to your point. I don't know the exact details but it sounds like they lost a ton of money is reported seventy Grand One card game with these people in somebody's backyard and then they went back to the card game a couple of nights later and it's sales like we don't know the exact details in the truth here but it sounds like to your point. Let's get our money back. Maybe they think they got Gedin. I don't know and you know the rest of the story and evil eye. Witnesses says it looked like it was a plan robbery because a third accomplice came in in a mask so they don't have masks on their well known the accomplice don't know has a mask on and they had their three cars lambeau. Bmw WHATEVER THE MERCEDES. They had lined up outside like getaway cars so it's sales like they decided. Let's go get our money back. Don't know the details. Not Trying to convict him in the Court of public opinion but the point is it's just so wrong it. What are you thinking? You have your whole future ahead of your life here view and it's pretty good. It looks like I know. De'andre struggle last year and he got taken out of some games. But he's still he's he's a good young player and he was going to still do good things and he'd already made a whole. Nice Chunk of early twenty two year old money. You don't need this foolish pride foolish Macho McKee's Mo- whatever you WANNA call it and now look net nail. Now they're going to be taken into custody and God bless both of them but Shannon is just hard for me to process what what just happened because they both had so much to lose and they just might have lost it all so true. Skip thing when you did look and I. I didn't speak for me. I I when I go home to Glenville gamble with the guys but I would only. They were shocked. Leave too small for you. You'll need to go to this place with that place where they play. Pod I say boy I I don't know them. I say I know. Y'All I trust you guys. I don't trust them. 'cause I'm telling you as soon as they find. I'M GONNA come. I've got this. Everybody down is not worth it. I lose a couple of grand you got. I don't care I'll take you. We will go to the House. We will eat break. We'll talk about what we did in high school and I'm GonNa Laugh at all still gambling with people around the table out lending them money. Hold on how young people money you guys still at the table. Let's get I knew them. They borrowed money from me. Why pay US BACK IN MY SISTER? Liberty Liberty? The money was killed the relationship that I have with them. I'm not going somewhere that I'm unfamiliar with and Gamble. Because they cheat in pain get out of hand and then somebody going calm. You got a paper with big money skill. Somebody's GONNA come. You already know what to do. Lay Down I've seen situations like that. So no but skill you you gotta You. GotTa be gotTa Mercedes. You plan the. Nfl shot at seventy dollars a month because temporary timber rare moment. Jif could possibly La Lifetime of regret men. Don't put yourself in that situation man you in the NFL and not you. WanNa be boy. You want to go back and try to hit a lick because you lost your Outta your mother Shannon Shannon. You're in the pro football hall of fame in every you go back and you so is and fraternize with other hall of Famers. Entrust every one of them. No matter their color no matter their background. They all hit some work in the road. They all to take that one split-second wrong path. May Ryan wrong decision. That could have cost rial of you guys the hall of fame but fortunately everybody said No. I can't I can't do that no. I can't risk doing that. And you stay on the path that took you to the hall you end. You may continue. You just got five. You got six million dollars just last year and now you want to go hit somebody. Somebody just hit you up for seventy grand. You want to go back but I can't believe it can't what I was reading. I didn't believe it. I like this is a case of mistaken identity in the you here. Whip I witness after witness and they ain't got no mass you just two days before and then you come back. Boy You nasty. They lucky they look big. Catch the right people because skip. That could have ended tragically because normally when you have a backyard car gave. I don't know how they do it but let me tell you when you have backyard car game. When I grew up at two three people gather piece. Own a bleeding. No I got it now. Easy Way to wrap that one up as we wait for more details to come out regarding situation since the packers traded up to draft quarterback Jordan love. We haven't heard from Aaron Rodgers yet. Well that is about to change later today. Rogers is scheduled to speak at three eastern so Shannon as with you. What do you want to hear? From Aaron Rodgers today was overshadowed. Roger would be okay. Rogers. Everybody they gave by understands that while. I'm speaking today. And you WANNA know where we'll Aaron thinking feeling. I'm peed AFA the multiple. Just go pick another quarterback. How does he win this year? We one game from the Super Bowl. How does quarterback help was weird this year? I'M GONNA ask you such. You win catch passes. Can you run the Ball Kenny? Kenny Dr Receiver. No no a note with go. Get A quarterback anyway. But you know what I'm GonNa do. I'm here and I'm a ball now. I'll go to you know what I was. GonNa have one of my season and when I win that. Mvp give we go into the playoffs? I'm not worried about that but I won't everybody from top to bottom and you need to call your name. You know who you are if you were in on this decision. I want you to kill. What don't shy I'll go play. I'M GONNA ball out but I just want you. To know is not my job and get your love reading. I will not turn him away if he asked me a question. I will politely answer that question. If he needs anything from me. It's he comes to me. I will give him information. But if you think I'm inviting him over to my house if you will seem in the hallway and a brothers grabbed steady session. That's not happening. That's the coach's job. They get paid to coach. I get paid to play. I'm going to play my. You know what up but I take the you-know-what off. Y'All make me say. Oh y'all be right about my demise for the last five years I haven't been slowed down the least bit but you know what they have yet to ever draft receiver in the first round. They have yet to draft me tie in the first row but I keep making magic. I keep making chicken salad out of chicken. You know what and I will continue to do it. I'm going to have an unbelievable season this year. And you're gonNA look foolish because the only way he's GonNa play. Y'All have to get rid of me and you know what I can't say I'll I'll be disappointed if it did. Aaron that is simply the most profanity that never been uttered on undisputed and I hope the. Fcc gives us a break because Aaron said it Shannon. Didn't say Aaron said it. Remember Sec. Aaron smyers Yes. Yes you for once. I would love to hear Aaron Rodgers. Look in the mirror and deliver a painfully honest self analysis. That when something like I know I haven't played up to my standards the last year so I don't blame them for drafting Jordan love because they deserve to draft Jordan love. And now it's up to me to lock back in and to rededicate and to rise back to the level that I know I'm capable of playing at. That's what I wish. He would say he would say that today if he would show some humility then it would certainly shut me up because I have often called Aaron on this. Show the Lebron James of the National Football League. I've often said that. Aaron leads the League in finger-pointing blame deflecting diva nece. Because he is a diva and he is a thin skinned diva and he takes everything personally. But it's never his fault. It's always his receivers fault or his management's fault the truth is he has declined over the last three years. The truth is his. Qbr has fallen for each of the last three and his completion percentage has fallen for each of the last three. In the end you cannot condemn his management for taking Jordan love for trading up and taking him in the first round. Because they're going to need a quarterback. It appears sooner than later as Erin. Approach is aged thirty seven and a lot of people out there before the draft thought that Jordan love can turn into Patrick Mahomes. If that's true then they may or nice smooth and again. Aaron didn't get the receiver help in the first round in a very deep draft of receivers that that he deserved. I give you that much. But his play didn't merit it. His play is is getting dangerously average and in the end they have to sit back in management. And say we haven't been to super bowl and almost ten years so Aaron pulled off a miraculously wild-car road wildcard run to Super Bowl. That he won't over the Pittsburgh steelers and yet since then his plan for ECKERD is six and seven and many of those least. Five of those six were questionable. Playoff wins because one came against Joe. Webb came against Kirk cousins when he was really struggling in Washington another came in the DEZ. Caught it game at Lambeau win. Odell took his receivers to South Beach to get ready for the game. Up On the Frozen Tundra at Lambeau the playoff game and the giant stunk. It up in here and was able to take advantage of that and then obviously there was the mason crossbar game. That still haunts me Jerry World in which it took to Inter Galactic field goals of fifty one fifty six yards. I still don't know how they went over the crossbar but they did and it took those to save them from losing that game to tack and company so Aaron has not been great in the playoffs since the Super Bowl. Run and I can't argue with twenty ten and twenty eleven seasons but Shannon. We're in twenty twenty. We're heading toward twenty twenty one. It's been too long so it's time for era. Show a little bit of humility and show that the Jordan. Love Selection has religious fire. That's what I'd like to hear from him. My fire is it. I'm going to show you you food. Air Rogers doesn't that have a fire because he's not posting everything he's doing like Tom Brady. Tom Brady's and evacuated we're shoulder. Tom Brady's throwing passes so you automatically assume because he doesn't do that he's not ignited his fire? He doesn't have the passion like Tom Brady. But still what you didn't tell people that his losses he has a thirty seven point loss. They get home up did they. Give up thirty seven points of defense. Give them points last year in a championship game. They gave up forty four to Atlanta. They gave a fifty one year to marriage on a cargo. They gave up another thirty seven to like manning they gave up thirty two Arizona with overtime. Game Jersualem shoveled paths. That was like thirty point at some point in time. How give him some hill? How deep is one time? Tom Brady had imported playoff giving a thirty thirty points. Or more twice in the last eight years would you? He got overcome their well. I don't you guys should overcame. Give the forty one and the super bowl rights. 'cause that's what goes do goes overcome at birth. They overcome that what you tell me. What do your guy did do? Your guy couldn't go to fifteen in a playoff game last year. Thirteen little measly point what he couldn't get David. Fourteen Shannon. The Best Player on the packers last year was named Aaron Rodgers. It was Jones how that team won. Thirteen Games still makes me scratch my head and many of the sports books right now. Have the over under on. Packers wins this year at eight point five. Do the math eight point. Five is the over under on a team that won thirteen last year. Everybody's saying over rated fluky fluky Gabor was overrun on the cowboys. Nine Care Care and you would you keep saying he killed his number. His trust of the interception ratio his completion his qbr yard for was better than Tom. Brady and use their handle outstanding season. How Tom Brady? Outstanding season in Aaron Rodgers. Numbers are better than you've record. Wives completion percentage touchdown to interception. Qbr If if if Tom Brady had great season how did Aaron Rodgers had a were season would a record and number. That's typically are better than Tom Brady way. That would leave. I Will Tom. Brady did not have Davante Adams whose top five receiver Tom Brady last year did not have a Jimmy Graham. He had the worst collections of tied end in football. He did not have an Aaron Jones he had Sony. Michelle lost in Bella checks doghouse. Which left him with REX. Burkhead really I mean. Tom Had the worst weapons in football and had them in position against the dolphins in the final regular season game with yet another game winning fourth quarter comeback drive to win the two seed in the AFC sensational against huge odds and Aaron backed into what they did in the playoffs last year. I'm sorry he did have devante. Don't take that away from him and he did have Jimmy Graham. Still You keep saying. He had in position for the two seed. The loss of Miami did not out of the play. Offs engaged them the third theme which gave them a home game with. They wondered vision and Tom Brady Scoring. Fourteen points at home in the first half coach. Bela checks defense. Gave up fourteen points over sixty minutes over four quarter of the football. Because the other touchdown that Titan. They should've gave us to Tom. Brady hit low. Logan I ride Logan Ryan in the head with a big fix so called Bella gay fourteen point. No he had reported half to eighty dropped it. Your gas scored fourteen. Let's talk about that. He's four team points. Shannon Sharpe the hottest buzzsaw at the end of the year and pro football last year. Was the Tennessee. Titans the best team in pro football last year was the Baltimore Ravens. What happened to them in a home? Playoff game that titans had just as they happen. Beloved England so you ran into a hot team that had Kansas City on the roads for just a little while until the title forgot how to tackle Patrick Mahomes but but but New England got the Cooler Cool Moon. If you owe. Tom Brady Played Tom. Brady he you right. Brees up genie the the call them at article. 'cause he can call anything that's hot now. All of a sudden he's got fourteen point where bellinger defense gave up a touchdown. The live Dr to Ryan Patrick. What about Tom? Brady's going what about back right now. Right now. They're calling him. Tomba Bay and he's going to be hotter than Tampa Bay is in August book. It go come in. Scotch Eagle coming up this guy and he will give his mind so I flew rare and they book or you know he got he got a googly eyes anyway just paying pop a little bit they ray it steelers Opera Linebacker. James Harrison said that. Hey coach Mike. Tomlin handed him an envelope after delivering a hard head on a brown. Do seaver in one thousand ten arrison was initially find. Seventy five thousand dollars for the hit but it was later reduced to fifty thousand dollars. Harrison's agent has denied this guy's even steelers President Art Rooney is denying that this ever happened. Shannon. What's your reaction to the story from the all. Nfl oversee here. You go to me. They got the wrong address. And so I'm just had of in the ending it to you. Obviously this is not a good look because the way it's being portrayed that it was a it was a money for a hard hit with would be construed as a bounty and Sean Payton talked about this is like I love to see them this and you know so. It's not a good look for the steelers and this is why they're knocking down. The aging is tried to knock it down for me. James knows about he knows how this is. GonNa be construed. He knows this and this was over ten years ago so to bring this up in the NFL go back and look at this and might richer actively do something. Because there's precedent here you cannot pay. Someone asks out of their salary to injure to do something extra that outside of the scope of what you would normally get paid for it and still. They did away with about as they used to be. You come in you know. They were put out on anybody but put about it out on the Kicker for Dallas remember. He kicked off the shit. Knocked the dates so it would be a privilege you when I came into the League if what about people and that was the thing but they've done away with bad for James to bring that back up now I just don't see I just don't see the I I don't see a reason or what good could come out of that. Okay I hear that but you know James I know James because he's on our show a lot as a contributor. I like James Harris. I I believe in James Harrison in his insight into defensive strategy in mentality and him telling truths. I tend to believe this happened. I don't know that it had been but I don't think James Harrison would just flat out make it up it's biggest thing just to make up now. You can argue about. Why bring it up now? It does what good how why you got but remember. He's talked about that. Hit on massacre on our show before and he's made the point. That's sort of a bitter sweetly funny point that if I'd known I was GONNA get fined. Seventy five thousand for that hit. I wouldn't hit him with about fifty percent of what I had. He said he was just trying to dislodge. The football wasn't going after him was not trying to hurt him. In any way shape or form he actually said on the podcast that some receivers on other teams had come to him in pre-game warmups ups and said. Hey I'll shoot you a little something if you'll hit me up high instead of down. Low the receivers as you know Shannon being one yourself you most fearful of your knees at that point. Nobody cared as much about your head as you did about your moneymakers your knees. Your knee goes correct. You might be gone for good so that James is saying I. I'm trying to go higher for the sake of the receivers and he said on my daddy's grave. I hit massive Koi with about half of what I had to deliver. I was just trying to dislodge the football on a receiver run was like hitting a running back in the hole so right. He was shocked that he got fined. Seventy five which finally got reduced to fifty but he also said in the podcast that he had to go talk to the Commissioner in New York and along with him came the GM of the steelers. Kevin Colbert and James. Said he did know. Kevin Colbert that well. They haven't spent that much time around each other and he said he was shocked to find that. Kevin Colbert was to quote James. An assassin. That Kevin Colbert went after the commissioner even harder than James did to defend James in it and that remember Mike Tomlin. At the time there was no flag thrown on the hit so it went on fly and my. Tomlin said right after the game the he believed that was legal. Hit So love your. Gm is yeah. Kevin Colbert's fighting hard for you in the Commissioner's Office and now chronological story evolves. We're now he goes back to Pittsburgh. The fine sticks at I think is reduced to fifty and then he said the Jesus thing that that the coach coach Tomlin ever did for him was he comes up and says here. This is for you and again I. I didn't take that as a bounty. I'm taking it as we tried to find the front because we thought you within. Yeah they were just paying the fine would have been. I don't know if it'd be the fool fifty but maybe it would be half that I don't know but it was. I took it to mean they were paying the fine as you point out. That's also really because it's it's a salary cap violations. You can't just give players more money than the cap will allow so that's balance to. It's not as out of bounds as a bounty program so I'm not seeing bounty. I'm just saying we believe you were okay. You were in balance on this hit. So we're going to help you on this one. We're going pay a portion or all the fine whatever ended up being in remember Shannon. The irony of this was in the end. James and Mike Tomlin sell completely apart. Remember in two thousand seventeen. I think it was James. His third time around in Pittsburgh and he went back because he said Mike Tomlin promised him he play around half the snaps he said it was between forty and fifty percent that he was promised and he was playing. Some games didn't even dress so he would fake falling asleep in meetings and then he just if he didn't know if you weren't supposed to suit up he would just go home and watch the game on television and he was trying to act his way out of. Pittsburgh which finally happened so he doesn't have a lot of good things to say about. Tomlin which is why he said the Jesus thing that Mike ever did for me was way back in two thousand ten so I tend to believe it yesterday. Sean Payton said the. Nfl's not gonNA DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. He said don't hold your breath. They'll sweep it under the carpet. I it happened so long ago. I think they'll just look the other way. Obviously Art Rooney said that that very certain nothing like this ever happened okay. I don't know I just. I'm just GONNA stand my ground here to say I do believe in James and I don't believe he would lie about something like that happens that when you're telling a story and I do believe James could have decapitated because if you if you look at it a skill he was just ending their if he'd had it running star and put his helmet unethical wads chin. Oh actually been over for sure so he can hit it with his shoulder but because James has such a low centre ravaged. He's a big man but he's short so even even when magic while was Doug because he saw him at the last second. You couldn't get the blown if so James Comey borrowed from their scale and so I understand. He gave me like you said it. Could've it could've been like look. We fought for you and that was the thing if they go five for you. Even if it doesn't at least you fall for me Bro. Good at least I know I got you know. Put you in harm's way now it's like you undisputed. I can't put you on blast point one time L. Blew me no matter what we good go j j you got no matter what transpired between you and Mike Tomlin. At least at one point they thought for you ever remember. They gave you opportunity after opportunity. Now you stand on that being an all pro defensive player of the year but now you turn your back on them and put them in a situation now. I don't know gift. Maybe Roger Goodell call him a Kimber. Let me talk to you we know. How do you believe that happened now? Roger that you know we'll stand the organization. We would never do anything. I that's what I figured. Okay get out of here but you J. J. Clinton the steelers in a very uncomfortable situation. He Mike Tomlin Barry Tom comparable situation and when they back they gonNA ask him about this now. This might have happened here. We go and by the time the media get an opportunity to Mike Tomlin. It might be changed. But they're going to ask him about this. They will so look in the end. Do I believe it happened? I do? I don't know that is just my gut feeling knowing Jane's but it was wrong for him to bring it up because it does no good for anybody and you say it unfortunately puts everybody in a in a tough spot for trending story of the day sponsored by Kia's tough and ready lineup of all wheel drive. Suv's give it everything. Well the final two episodes of Michael Jordan's documentary the last dance air this Sunday. I do not want this to end but Shannon. What do you want to see them? Both episodes nine and ten. Oh what do you WanNa see a baby bonus track about the washing today day to you? The Washington have a right you. He did Brain Scottie. Pippen now if I'm not mistaken was he older roster ninety four so I'm trying to figure how does anything from nine hundred ninety four season? How does that make the last dance only Jamaica Scottie? Pippen look bad because he wouldn't go in and take the take a impact the ball into Toni. Kukoc TO TAKE TONI. Kukoc to take the shot. How did that make the last day what they gotta do? It might might leave it. There probably within Birmingham. Somehow that made that made it so I just WanNa see somebody a bonus track see what it would like your Washington easy because they would be happy to go. See to see play now in all honesty all seriously. All jokes aside. I don't really know what I'm looking for. I want to know how he's obviously. The last shot is going to be in there. But I just WANNA know so we've seen the maturation of Mike and we've seen the behind the scenes of how he got motivated. St Saying we've just it would just motivation. It was hard motivation. It could be construed as bullying. I don't really know where it's going to go now skip. I really don't other than the last shot. Which that's your favorite moment in sports history. 'cause you purchasing you. Purchase that photo to see Michael Jordan. Hold that poll. You probably got him decided to. I bet you did. I bet you got undecided but now you know so I really don't. I really honestly all honesty scale. I do not have any idea what these last two episodes is going to encapsulate. Because you've got to our and basically if the Bible shot so I don't know where we're going from here okay to your first point semi serious. Yes he did. Come back after three years. The last three years of his prime ages thirty five thirty six and thirty seven. He did not play basketball. Why I don't know that's where I'd like to hear but he did come back. This is the last dance. This is about the nineteen ninety eight season the final one in Chicago but four years later he came back at age thirty eight and thirty nine to Washington. He played okay. He wasn't in the best shape. He did smoke too many cigars. At that point he averaged twenty three and six the first year and twenty six the second year. It wasn't pathetic but it wasn't pretty but the point is he had three. Yeah he had his moments here and there but whatever this is about ninety eight this is about how it ended and why it ended and began. I was there in ninety eight as the columnist Chicago Tribune and what was often perplexing to me was. Michael spoke a lot to the media without really speaking. He was the master of show and he could say a whole lot without saying much of anything unless you really backed him into a corner with a pointed question as I did about Michael Phil keeps saying that. It's a done deal. You're just going to quit if when he has to walk out the back door and Michael said that's feels opinion. That's when I had some hope. Okay maybe Michael isn't going to just go with fill out the back door. But the point is he's rarely spoke in his heart on. What really happened so Shannon. I'm hoping that that we get to see that guy who's now kicked back. Anat easy chair in these interviews. And he's got a little little something is glass and they keep filling it and I want him to so to speak. Let his hair down. I know he doesn't have a lot of air left. But whatever's let it down. Let us see what's inside. You let us here on the basketball court. What happened in the? What's called the flu game? The classic game at Utah and the ninety seven finals led us here. What was in your heart soul? Mind against the Pacers it Shannon. I was there a covered. All seven of those games in the conference files ninety eight. It was a hell late contest between a team coached by Larry Bird. Who was the coach of the year in the NBA? That year and the Star was as you know. Reggie Miller but it was deep in talent and firepower rick. Smits the to Davis's obviously Chris. Mullin Jalen Rose Travis. Best a Mark Jackson. It was a loaded basketball team. That 'cause Michael and company a whole lot of problems. The home team won all seven games of that series including the Bulls winning game. Seven eight hundred eighty three at home. It was not down drag out. Reggie says that the Pacers we see the previews for what's coming up in episode nine. Reggie says that the Pacers just better than the Bulls. He might have been right about that. Except for that. One guy on the Bulls and then we come to the last shot at Utah. And I've told you Scotty was sick before the game. And then he wrenched his back on her early wide open dunk and he was virtually useless. The rest of the game scored eight points in that game. Michael scored forty five while the whole rest of the team scored forty two so what? What's going on in his head during that game because they were pretty sure they wouldn't have Scotty through a potential game seven Utah so it is Michael saying it's do or die now. I have to make this shot on Brian. Russell I gotta go steal the ball source from call Malone I gotta close the deal now because we might be able to close it and game seven. I WanNa hear that and finally as we talked about to start the show. Shannon I WANNA hear. Does he have any regrets for not going to Jerry REINSDORF and saying? Hey let's make a deal. Let's compromise here. I'll stay. I Know Phil and Jerry or do not advise them. The bridges burned. I get it. They can't coexist anymore. So give me a made man give me Doug Collins. Back is my my coach next year. Don't give me Tim Floyd Jerry. Krause had fallen in love with Tim. Floyd he's a nice guy. Got To know tim very well the next year but Tim was a rising college basketball coach. Done really well at New Orleans and then at Iowa state they'd gone to three straight double as he was a fine young coach. Who was the disaster? The next three years without Michael and got fired in the fourth year so the point was Michael said give me somebody with some NBA experience. Who I respect. I'll come back for two more years. Well I want to know Michael. Talk about that episode ten on Sunday night. I WANNA know I WANNA ear it from the goats melts what happened. Why did it happen your rights? That would be interesting if he will reflect back and say you know what one of my biggest regrets is that I did not go talk to Jay arrived or and I did not get him to try to change my own bringing bringing field back. Still Look we look. It's hard for me to believe Jerry Reinsdorf in Bill Jackson. They don't have to communicate communicating about game. Playing your officers in one corner of now than the other and so we don't have to get a low. Just hey you you get the players. The contract all that stuff. Let Bill were with the team. You guys stay out of each other's hair so that's the way it's going to be so yeah it'd be interesting if he's going to be that reflective but I go of. Michael is the goddess. Have any regrets about anything that I've done in my career is basketball wise? Skip that that was the thing that would be something that I would like to hear. Does he likes me. What could have been like? I said I believe Jerry. Reinsdorf shoe allow someone outside of the Organization. Crumlin within two this thing out if the pace of big somebody Utah or whomever Antonio if somebody beats I got no problem with that but don't method now so that's going to be blue game. Yeah and also remember this. I think he was like episode. One Jerry Reinsdorf so on camera for the documentary saying Jerry. Krause told me that in ninety eight the team had gotten too old so krause said convinced. Reinsdorf who also own the white sox and didn't have that much rocus on the Bulls. He just lead Jerry. Krause run that basketball operation but the point is Jerry Krause Convinced Jerry Reinsdorf. Did the team was too old so Jerry. Krause get started over and showed that he could win without Michael Jordan Baloney Shannon. Look at the ages of the players. It was not too old Scotty was thirty. Two Rodman was thirty six but he was a below. The Rim rebound. He's still had basketball left in him. Ron Harper winter. One tumor rings as a starter for the Lakers. And then we go all the way down the roster. Toni Kukoc from twenty nine six man of the year. That team could've come back for two more years. I believe it would have been favored to win the next two championships. I believe it would have. Who knows if it would? I don't know would. They have gotten hurt. Would they have broken down? Would Michael run out of sort of psychological gas? Maybe but I really believe that team was physician to win two more championships or at least get to the fight of you like them. You like them over San Antonio FANTONI ONEAL TO DAVID. David got it. Yeah is given up. I forgot about the blue game. I think the thing is we look at Mike. He has such iconic moment know he had the blue game he had the last shot off ninety eight. He had the acrobatic layup in his first. Nba Finals get so he has that you will never ever forget because you'll remember where you were because you remember. Scotty helping them out the court and he's sitting down and sit down he applauds down. You remember that you remember him holding you remember him. Having the ball turned out the ball and his right hand did all the studies. Eight nine go do that. I won't do so you remember that. It's just that the Lomas. Oh Connie that you'll never forget. You know. Even though he he was great all the time he had some movie. That you've start one out of the bath getting three people around him in somehow he lays the ball up and gets POW. He has moments. But it's moments in game that you will never ever forget you know it. Sounds like you're making the case. He was the goat. And isn't the goat. Go skilled there you go. I think why why you do I get. I'd get a man credit. I got out of bed. Probably a hundred grand on Jordan shoe. And you've got people out here convinced. I pay me all the money back so I could really hate or do I need all the money back. But he joins. I got what I need you guys to do. The for you know all right. Let's get back to talking some football because pro. Football focus release all decade team top one hundred and one players topping the list. Was Tom Brady followed by Aaron? Donald and drew brees to round out the top three. The next quarterback on the list was Shannon's guy. Aaron RODGERS DOWN AT NUMBER SIX SHANNON. Got a problem with this agree. Yeah got a big problem. Big Problem I don't see how says also scenario with you reach and be ranked ahead of Roger. Skip if you look at it. Aaron Rodgers have they super bowl super bowl. Mvp and two regular season MVP INVIS- decade drew. Brees DOES NOT SKIP playoffs. Drew brees is four and six air of tenant. Seven degrees has twenty one touchdowns ten inception Air Roger. Thirty six and eleven and if you look at the championship game loss get two thousand nine hundred. Thirty seven points to the forty niners. Two Thousand Sixteen. Report the Falcons and we know what happened in overtime against the adult. They've failed appeal to kick. So if I just look at it and I understand that drew brees had the numbers. But he's throwing the ball over a thousand more times but Aaron Rodgers dating this decade and the seven to nine a pro bowl appears air. Rogers missed a half or two season. But if you look at what they accomplished. Rogers has six division. Titles Rees has four. You Look at the Super Bowl appearance you look at. Nfc Championship game appearances. Best four to one Roger Favor so I'm surprised that drew breathe is so much higher than Aaron Rodgers. Another one that I thought it was like but then when you look at his. Jj Watt. I think what happened to. Jj Step is that he started off like gangbusters but if you look at over the last three or four years. He's kind of been nick. He's missed a substantial amount of time and I think was passed him so I was a little surprised. Would I be disappointed if? Jj Watt would have been a little higher. No but I understand what they took into account because the last three years three or four years. He's missed a lot of times injury but the biggest problem that I have is with Aaron Rodgers. Being way below drew brees. Wait a SEC in our living room. Here eligible rule. Tom Brady is number one on this list. European Aaron Rodgers is sixth. You have repeatedly told me the greatest thrower of the football. The greatest ever is Aaron bleeding. Rogers you have told me. He is transcendent that he is considerably. He has been better than Tom Brady. So why didn't you go right to the top of the list and say Aaron Rodgers should not just be above drew brees? He should be above Tom. Brady you did not say that because I don't think you really believe that. Skip SKIP IN THIS DECADE. Brady has been the five super bowls. He's one free. His numbers speak for itself mistake. They won the division every single year. Skill Tom Brady deserve to be the quarterback in this decade. That was not. I've made my point. The problem that I have is drew. Brees it three Aaron Rodgers at six I believe should be reversed. I stand by that so you try to bring them. We're not talking about Brady. See You always one. Without Deflect America Shannon. Sharpe just admitted that Tom Brady is better than Aaron. Rodgers. It's over. He has lost the basketball gold argument and the football goat argument in the same week. It's over for Lebron James. It's over for Aaron bleeping Rogers if I might. I read just a couple of lines from the capsule on pro football focus on Tom Brady ranked number one. He has a single season grade pro. Football has ever given a quarterback that was back in twenty sixteen. That's not that long ago. He has the greatest four year. Stretch pro football focus has ever-graded that was from. Twenty fifteen to twenty eight eighteen. That's not that long ago and pro. Football Focus says. Tom Brady defines clutch. I've been trying to tell you that. For four years in the fourth quarter and overtime he still has the highest pro football focus grade of the decade and beyond that as great as he's been in the clutch he's been doing it without making many mistakes. That's what truly makes him. Special says pro football focus. I know the stats can be hard to swallow to sort of. Let it compute but think about this. Tom Brady in the decade had by grade. Only one hundred twenty four. What are called turnover worthy plays? That's out of six thousand one hundred fifty one. That's two percent of his plays in the decade were termed by pro football focus turnover worthy. That's outrageously low. That's by far the best. That's why he is the unquestioned. Vote of the National Football League. Which brings me to sixth ranked Aaron Rodgers. It makes the Point Shannon. And I'll give you this late. Twenty ten all of twenty eleven. Aaron Rodgers was sensational. He made a case for about a year and a half that he was goat but that was a long time ago and that was the end of Air Rogers as you knew and loved him and pro. Football Sunday concludes in its capsule on Aaron Rodgers. What holds him back from the very top of this list is that he just couldn't sustain that level and over the past few seasons has sunk deeper and deeper into a Rut of some bad habits. That's pro football. Because that's not me so they are. Validating what I've told you he's been in decline over the last three seasons. Lots of bad habits they grade ever and lower on pro football focus. Will you better ask something smart? Because I think you're in trouble though a number in trouble I'm glad appropriate bogus his out. But they just didn't start playing quarterback in two thousand fifteen through two thousand eighteen. So it'd be interesting to see if they were to gray some Peyton manning years someone Dan Marino years and so we could see if those are cob are to Tom. Brady's they did they did. And then the end in a decade who turned the ball over Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers and the decade is a civil question. Yes the session. Who had more interceptions Tom Brady? Or Aaron Rodgers Simple question. It wasn't a statement. Look I got gotTa simple answer. They have a chart on both focus. You can look it up over the decade. Tom Brady had by far. The fewest turnover. Worthy plays Aaron Rodgers. To your point was second on that list but by far the Brady terminal workplace place. I'm talking about turn over. I'll talk about smelling the donor. I'm eating doughnut now. Where did you got a doughnut? Smell the donuts guilt Betas win guy turned it over. No most? Sometimes you throw one to the other team in the other team Dr Interception. That happened on your skill based here. Did you eat of the heat down where you know what I wanted to make state last night with some baked potato and Yada Yada? Why did you keep telling me some time? Utah to the guy. He's drops it. Did he have more interceptions than Aaron? Rodgers a simple no or simply yard. Jedi cannot treat a witness as a hostile witness. Mac Avenue the Tom Brady had the fewest turnover worthy. Plays pro football focus. This is their list and they ranked Aaron Rodgers six because fell off after twenty ten slash eleven case closed in involvement game over. If I'm not mistaken so he fell off much that he won the MVP in twenty fourteen. Hey Gabe years accounts in this decade. Play up the twenty two hundred twenty eleven but yet he wanted the MVP or twenty four. So how did it follow up well a lot? The last three years in fact it fell off so much. They decided penalize him all the way down to six on the list and they admitted what holds them back from being at the very top of the list is he just couldn't sustain Shannon. You're clinging to the past you're holding onto what used to be and screaming before your very eyes is the fact that Aaron Rogers has not been very good over the last three years and even last year he was eighteen. Qbr and twenty-third completion percentage. That will sly. That's not going to make you number one in the decade. Still but if you look at it like that that's like you. Same boat fell off okay. Because he doesn't run nine five eight and he won the Olympic tonight eight. Oh usually what he fell off. He's not say well no. He's not. He's still winning you. I mean you compare to that when you compare it to those historically great even the likelihood of somebody going forties forty five and six skill Komo now. What if that's the case? Tom Brady pillow because he's never had another season in which went fifty eight so we fell out if you hold if you hope home to that mythical season five thousand fifty touchdowns thirteen years session if you judge him by that. You're GONNA say he fell off New Judge. Peyton manning about fifty five and ten in. He doesn't have fifty four hundred Dr. Yeah he fell off skip come. Oh he's still had better numberth last year than Tom Brady and he fell off and Tom Brady still played the hot clip. I can't understand. I just don't know how a guy has more judge. Dow You're innocent better completion for a better. Qbr BETTER YARD FOR A. He fell off but the guy that he had better numbers than is feel fallen on. So I ask you one last simple question simple yes or a simple no should aaron rodgers be ranked above. Tom Brady at number one on this list. Shannon Sharpe Simple. Yes or no no due to the attorney for me. I have the right to the pit the memory protection so I use my God. Yup Game Taste closed. The Rams New logo and now new uniform has been met with some public backlash some of that coming from rams legend and friend of the Eric Dickerson. Who JOINS US now? Eric it is so good to have you routier undisputed. We're so glad to have you with us. But I gotta ask Eddie you a little critical of the new logo of the uniform. Tell us why would they be calling? You know call in you know went to the I bet and Innocent be honest and thought the logo a logo was was indicative of the Los Angeles Wayans and then they took the same thing. The uniforms are or the uniforms. This is the history of the lambs forest. The whole they came in one thousand nine hundred and sixty first team in Los Angeles on into so johnny with the full box. Will I mean I'll uniforms Joan fearsome foursome? You think about it slater all great players and it's almost taken away the history of the Los Angeles rams and understand the with the codes. I think the main thing I just asked him why would you? Why would you on and then asked us? After the fact I'm Marcia Marcia Clark was on the call and more guys the question he said anything and goodness someone else to take credit. We'll do we look to. Do we blame for this and it was a gallon college so well. I guess you blame me on a sense it say so. What did you talk to former players current players about the logo and a uniform? Does anybody know what we talked to two office? Talk to women which is fine in the in the office. We didn't talk the player me. That just didn't make sense. Why does after the fact I mean although an interesting I want to thank you for the name the embassador because I really think of the name I I take it from. My Band is one of about their football team. They'll go out actually skill for you. Would it was took the star of The Dallas convoy? Since we've said Mary I did give you that nickname because you do live and die. Fear Rams So. I must admit when I read your remarks from your radio interview. Yesterday I was shocked that you publicly condemned these uniforms but I did not know that they had sought your approval. Well they'd already decided that it's all in order that that you didn't really get any input they'd already decided this is the way it's going to be so. I was shocked at how critical you were because you still work with and Ford. The team and yet you weren't really consulted before they released the new uniform so now. I have sympathy for you and I'm on your side. At first I was shocked. The hypercritical of this but they didn't really ask your opinion until it was too late right exactly. I asked him when when they showed US showed them to us. I said okay. Can THEY CHANGE THEM INTO? Who Don't like him. It's not changing them. Ask You know they would've asked me what I would have seen it this. Let's let's make this fun. Let's elway bringing some great artists that we have in Los Angeles and let's take the tufty the top therm the top twenty top Sam by and the topics who've been topic on this this to take those calls arteries and say we're GonNa let you take our logo work we should take our yelled. And and we're GONNA leave you say fifty thousand season tickets was so great in. La when our fans the fans were ended. I mean you talk to the fans they said the thing is we'd like the caller why mess with the I mean it doesn't look like all the guy on the phone. I said. This doesn't look like a horn anymore. I mean you know time I'm this time of the past. An enclave on the pass is time Jalen Ramsey towns and probably the worst time but I still think that woman was on is an iconic piece of the Los Angeles Rams Football Team that we've lost that I do like the colors is so I need you to get married. Aaron Donald Jersey Autograph. I appreciate that sort of problem that you have if that Bay they tinker with the Horn because it looked like they broke the horn. It's not a single horn is like to have horns that's not connected so they would have just left the hornby intact. Bring new colors brighter colors. You would have been okay with that. You just have a problem with the horn being have on. Not a complete on one hundred percents. Yeah that's my problem. That's the problem with all of the fans. 'cause Mike The Shield shoulder a little bit wider ram curve living. Wow that's not my article on on the hill and why mess with the understood elected. That's a no no no. That was my main issue and said they asked us this the wanting it was after the see. I don't take any change you know. We're not saying okay. So they basically yeah took everybody on the com- groups to home was all pretty much the same so eric while we have you you did. Bring out my cowboys. Were haven't been able to get your opinion of how the deck contract stalemate will play out. How do you see it ending? Good or bad will also be this month soon online. Jerry Jones you know and I was the COBB was not a cobweb and feel like when you when you hear the details of all the opposite of off. It's great about a guy who was found and I'm not saying I think is is in your rape. Water Office is Great. And it's like it's for the Dallas Cowboys going. GonNa make so much more than off. The field is look at Tony. Romo only eighteen million dollars a year. You know at the college football so about you argue over another and I'm not. It's not my money five and ten million dollars but jeering then kind of only okay. I'm Asia Faira offer very fair and you don't WanNa take it. We'll just step back and they were just saying look. We're going to know what anti say fifty million dollars and we'll put that someone defects and help you you playing with fire. Because I mean being a cowboy and I hate to say this new as a great great value and being doubt and then the starting quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys. You of all people should know avid having hailed twice living it late. You wanted to arrange because you felt you want what you deserve. They thought they would give you fair market value for money you will live. You will never get la and you end up going indie you talking about the Alabama Dallas. Now be here all at least not the player and I don't want to do this by how spinach being a quarterback of the Dallas Cowboy quarterback in the New York Jets Cincinnati. Being to be leaders. And we know that. I'm not telling. The mayor wants to do but ours is and I said look look at this very close and think about this because let's see Particularly and in the end he does son Steven John Green author. That's enough and we just leave it at that. We go Kirkland Minnesota and so Shannon Sharpe you realize that time that you're talking about Eric Dickerson. Had established himself as the best running back in all pro football he was dominating the lead and he was a sure fire first ballot hall of. Famer by the time that he was at his contractual stalemate with his team. So that's a whole different situation than a still young quarterback who is one into in the play offs. Nobody considers Dak Prescott even a top tin quarterback yet. Maybe he'll come to to prove that at some point but again as Eric says the author on the table of thirty six million a year with maybe one hundred ten million guaranteed is more than fair. But he understand. Ed Haven't played and understands contract. Contract is not what they're reading written to be. How much of that? Money is fully guarantee that not injured protection. Not if I'm on the roster at the start of the New Year because we've seen them start started the new year start cutting player agag early target and all that money guarantee targe earlier in Atlanta. You see what happened to linen fluent in Chicago talking about money for the New Year skip. I'm talking about money. That's fully guarantee when I signed my name. How much money am I getting? E D know how that work is basically the money that I'm going to get no matt come hell or high water. I'm they'll be able to put that money in my pocket and I think they keep if thirty five million and we're GONNA with guarantee. How much is fully guarantee of air? Rodney got about seventy nine million. Russell Wilson got about seventy million. How much of that is fully guaranteed? Okay Eric Dickerson. While we still have you. Let's go one last direction. You have called Tom Brady here on undisputed an old ask. The old man is now a Tampa Bay buccaneer. You have not been able to weigh in here on the show. How Will Tom? Brady's bucket ears do next year. Well with Tom Brady you always Evanston. Don't get the coastal areas. But you know can play in that offense can. He pushed the ball down. Field get can get a boost. Ahrends office you need a little bit. More time rate is forty years old uncle. Tom Brady Brady's forty two years on these guys would stand. Those can stand the play. You Know Tom Brady is not known for that. You know he's having leisure to sit back in the pocket personally. I think the box would do okay. I mean they have some weapons over there for sure. The office is pretty good. I'm not sure that the back because this is solid but you know. He's Tom Brady. He has with him also in a thousand red zone situations because it pretty tight him. But you know he's placing whether it's kind of like Lebron James. Wherever he goes they gotTA HEAD. You Championship. Lebron goals where he went to Cleveland. You Fall Championship. He goes to Miami About Championship. Tonight Lakers Championship. That's the way he can swing the pendulum of power with the the thing he did. I agree within. This is what I've been telling skip if you look at Bruce Arians opposites bear about pushing the ball down the field. Can he get Tom Brady to hold the ball nor longer than even normally and take unnecessary risks that? Tom Really never took in his previous office. Because if you look at James they put James and a lot of situation. That James is really reckless. What the Pope Paul. But they asked him to do things that they a order for you to be successful long term. You can't put the ball in harm's way like bruise area wants you to Tom. Brady is going to go twelve and four next year and you guys are going to happen to eat a lot of undisputed fried crow with with give give you do hold. I imagine the Super Bowl in Tampa if Tampa Bay the Super Bowl. I know goodwill will take down to Tampa Bay. I can't live with you. I'd say I know that Bill. No no no so. It's been a pleasure to have you on. We can't wait to get you back in the studio. We hope to be back in the studio soon and it will be much easier for me to school. Both you and Shannon say face then by Zuma's not trying to do right now. We'll reading a little bit after. Say Eating you definitely have the best backdrop. I'm sorry you win. What does that up there on the show? We will see you back hopefully in studio student minute perkins is siding with Lebron and the goat. Debate perk tweeted a side by side. Comparison Lebron having averaged more points rebounds assists and a higher shooting percentage in his last three finals losses. The Jordan had in his last three finals win so Shannon. Does this prove lover? Odd is go go the great job of highlighting kind of what I try to do. But I think the thing is ginny people again. And they chose them aside and they're not moving out that side of these are very compelling compelling numbers when you look at it he's averaging more points three and a half more points five rebounds five more and shoot a higher for Senate and he's losing these Games but I forget the being of looking at the other day the twenty fifteen sixteen and seventeen are ranked the highest opponents that either Michael or Lebron could possibly played Bible the talk seven that might they graded the teams but teams that Michael Play in the team. That Lebron play Lebron had five hundred seven. Now Mind you the twenty eighteen. The second year that Kevin Durant there they did he make now we know what Kevin Durant represents. That team did not even make it. Let Rica for just a second so another words. Lebron James and pilots competition has faced tougher up on this one Michael Jordan. He loved all these dasm bag that he loved the point out I just warning out stats and facts of what the what these articles that. Lebron James Competition and final have been tougher than magic of Michael Jordan in final. I mean I don't really know what you can ask. Commanded do a man average is thirty five Levin and ten and and he's Ludovic. I don't really know what else what you're GONNA ask a man to do skill. I really don't the article in question was on the website. Five thirty eight. That's what you read. I read that analysis correct. The overall premise was Michael. Jordan's playoff opponents were tougher than lebrons playoff opponents. That's because in Michael's Day. The east was the beast and Lebron's Day the east was the least. He had just easy pass. He had superhighways to the finals. I will give you that. Golden State was the toughest files opponent. Either Lebron or Michael Ever had to contend with I give you that but remember spurs remember. Lebron had his biggest meltdown against the Dallas Mavericks who were ranked by five thirty eight. The easiest finals opponent. Either Lebron or Michael Ever play the Twenty Eleven Mavericks Easiest Finals Opponent and the Chosen. One became the frozen one in that series. Michael never melted down in any series of any round of the playoffs. So now let's go back to Kendricks idea his panel that he put up on his twitter. It's so misleading because it's a bunch of Phony Baloney here's what's not included in those numbers and Kendrick. It was a nice try that you've failed again to make Lebron the goat he's the phony goat rated. Pg Here's why in the Final Bulls three peat. They played Seattle. Utah AND UTAH. The games were played. Much more physically. Then in the scores were far lower. The Lebron Golden State scores so are far more points to be scored against Golden State. Because it's more run and gun against Seattle and Utah here. The that average scores of those finals against Utah. Ninety three to eighty nine with the average score the first Utah Series the files. The files. That average funnel was eighty-seven then in these three peat finals against Utah. The average was eighty eight to eighty. So all the scores are down in the eighties. But guess what so the average score of those three peat finals for Michael? The second three peat was ninety two eighty six. He scored thirty five percent of the ninety points. Now you look at Lebron against Golden State. The average score of all three of those finals was one twelve to one. Three many more points scored by both sides. Lebron scored thirty four percent of those points. So Michael Thirty. Five percent of his three P. points and they won a Lebron thirty four percent of more points scored and they lost. They lost in six then in five and then in soar. They got swept Req- killed. But this is what. I don't understand why you never make that now. We're Tom Brady that. They don't attack the quarterback the why received more freedom. They throw the ball more. No no no I just WanNa know because every all you do is talk about whether the pace the style of pace Lebron. They're getting more shots. So this is why his number but you do that for Brady. You know what I'm saying. They don't attack the quarterback like they did in the seventies eighties nineties. You Donald say they cut and grab the receiver and the receiver. They're the defenders receiver. And they call you. Don't make that argument. All you do is highlight. What Tom Brady is doing? But every time I give you numbers about Lebron you try to highlight. Why he's doing it. You won't just give him credit. Say May this guy is great. He played unbelievable. You always try to find a caveat you try to find reasons to why again our audience is hip to Shannon Sharpe. They get it that. When he's losing an argument he always has to change the subject so all of a sudden owned the run with some cold hard facts and you say what about Tom Brady. This isn't about Tom Brady. This is about Kendrick Perkins trying to make a weak case a lame taste. That Lebron is better than Michael because some bogus stats misleading. For Analog with ROB would have made sure rick so in other words. Lebron James is really not scoring thirty five points to thirty five. Thirty five twelve assists or not. Is it ten rebounds? I just need to know if it is it that you know okay. Look I give you that. Scores higher scoring more points. I also gave you this if you remember. I've said this many times on spirit in twenty fifteen the greatest three games. Lebron is ever played his playoff lights games. One two and three of the twenty fifteen the first files against Golden State before they had Kevin Durant Lebron had lost Kevin love before the final started. He Lost Kyrie in overtime of game. One and what did he do? He put that team on his back and carried them to a two games to one lead with game sore in his house in Cleveland. If you win that game I'm going to be backed into a corner because you're going to be on your way to the greatest seat of your career. You by yourself are on the way to beating Golden State was Steph and clay and Draymond and for that matter and what happened in Game Four. Lebron spit the MIT or swallowed the bid on small his own house. He Shot Seven for twenty two that game. He went five of ten from the free throw line any disappeared and everybody told me back on. I take oh it just ran out of gas well. Odi is the latest athlete in Sports. That's all I ever hear Warburg George. He was running out of gas at the last laugh. Repeat which we say that my you dislike anything. Michael said there eighty one Michael say one way to TAP BAZ? Why he took time off. He was running out again. Would he say it? Call Him so he ran out of gas chain. Took all your behalf. All Happened Happen Kim yesterday did it have in. I want you to know that. I'm not saying that. Seattle or Utah in the last three. Pete were Golden State but they were really good basketball teams because Seattle that year had the second best record to the Bulls in ninety six when the Bulls were since Asia they went seventy two and ten and Seattle was one sixty four games and we're best in first best obviously in the West and then Utah was the second best record in ninety seven and then Utah tied the Bulls Ninety eight for the best record. So don't tell me. They weren't quality opponents. There was nothing underdog about either of those teams. They were really tough minded very good. Well coached basketball teams skill. If you don't mind me asking blazers how many hall of famers did it have on the Blazers? How many did they have on Seattle? And how many DID THEY HAVE ON UTAH? You'll mind me asking Clyde Drexler. One SEATTLE GARY PAY ONE UTAH to stock into below. Okay let's go to the Spurs. They got four. I have four. Tony Parker Monitor Nobly Tim. Donkey KUWATA winner. That's right skip that a lot as you always. Tell me that Tony Parker and Monir completely overrated there Broccoli. And they don't belong. They told me talk. Have to you to stop their first of all. You know Tony Parker going to the hall of fame because he would finals. Mvp models going to the hall of fame because those ring and if an international play he led Argentina to the gold medal. Going to two-time different player of the year to zero BP. Tim Duncan with write in top. He was writing the head of shacking Kobe. So Stop Stop here right now and go to four hall of Famer. A highlight of CD leeann returning upon high has gone viral. Where he makes several defenders before scoring a touchdown so Shannon theonest here? How impressive this from one to ten zero so you mean to tell me. Janney. There's a wide receiver a skill position player in the NFL. A wide receiver tidy and running back or defensive back. That didn't have an impressive playing high school out. Here you got to the NFL. Everybody plays like this. This is not unique. We're talking about this. This skill Henry had one game at high school in which he rushed for fewer than two hundred yards. So all the game between two hundred and five hundred and we're talking about port return. It's kept US Seymour. Impressive retards than college and the NFL. Highest COOL GIVE OUT NO. You're not impressed by this. Please tell me skill leave. Tell me you're not impressed by this. Leave Filming Shannon. You could already see it coming in high school. He could make you miss. Lord have mercy. I told you he's got wiggle as you see demonstrated. Look look at the make you mrs in this one wiggle plus power. I told you that he plays faster and plays quicker than even he was tied. He's very special as run after catch. I believe he will also return some punts. I don't know maybe even some kickoffs but definitely punts for the Dallas Cowboys. I told you the day after the draft he will change life in Dallas. And this early glimpse of what you're going to see next year I know is just high school. But that's pretty special. I've watched it seventy five times. Now Seventy six seventy seven. I can watch the rest of the day because I'm going to get you shit. Live this fall. Skip every player in the. Nfl was special in high school. You could see it coming. There's not one player in the NFL. Bill was not special in school. You didn't stop giving you a ridiculous. I can't believe you I really I wouldn't eh. I love it. Take me on ice called no way or making those big plays at guys. Enjoy the end of the last dance. Have a good weekend. We'll be back Monday.
Gronk + Belichick, Cowboys' draft options, Jordan criticizing Pippen, Tony Boselli joins
"Speak for yourself from the CRIB. Jason Whitlock Marcellus Wiley on a Hump Day. Happy Windy the U. of America. Are we have an awesome show plan for you today? Fox Sports College football analyst Brady Quinn's GonNa stop by this show and talks fell draft a very special guest about forty minutes from now. Tony Sally the all time great off. It's tackle who came down with corona virus and had to go to the Mayo Clinic. We're GONNA pull up in his crib down in Florida and interview him. You don't WanNa miss that. But we're going to start by going out to Ohio and our man. Eric Mun Jean Georges from his grab and that is the same. Eric Mangini you see on this show is now one meal man. Genie Madsen one meal with mom was like weighs about one hundred. Eighty five pounds. Awesome having here guys. Let's talk about the big news in the NFL. Rob Gronkowski reunited with Tom. Brady this is amazing. This is incredible. The New England Patriots Bill Belichick. Yesterday trade's gone cows to the Tampa Bay buccaneers for a fourth round. Pick of course GRONKOWSKI retired. All of last year dropped a bunch of weight now. He says he's back up to two hundred and sixty pounds. Can't wait to reunite with Tom. Brady down and ample southside. Gronkowski retired a year ago claiming his body and injuries and he just couldn't put up with it anymore But now he reappears tamper with Tom. Brady I'm wondering if any of this is a bad luck or bill belichick and the Patriots away the two greatest patriots breath. I take that back John. Hannah would be my number two but the two major to the modern era have both relocated. Tampa Bay away from bill village battling for ballot check and the Patriot way myself. Not an off is not because the they're going down to Florida and their retirement home in Tampa Bay both of these guys collectively with all that they've earned and the equity that they've gotten from their experience with the Patriots so the Patriot Way. If you're in it to win it you have to do with the Patriot. Way has been the most successful model we seen in football but at the same time doesn't mean it is the most fun you can have in that journey to success but let's be real. We've all grown up around. People who have more funding US didn't sacrifice the same didn't dedicate themselves the same and most if not all of those people who have more fun. Us turned out to not be much. So that's how the game goes and I'm a guy who didn't get into the NFL. Experience focused on necessarily getting a super bowl trophy. But those who did you do it the Patriot way. That's going to review the most reward. So look at these guys. Now they have the equity. They can't lose even if they go to Tampa Bay and fall flat on their face. Both of these guys. They're still New England patriots superbowl champion six times and three times over. So there's nothing for these guys to really risk except going out the way that they want to have fun. This is absolutely on brand for the Patriots and for Bill Belichick. He takes an asset. That wasn't doing anything and it translates that into a fourth round draft pick. He wasn't gonNA come back and play New England and that's fine but he's able to trade in Tampa Bay get ten million dollars. Nine million dollars would have potentially come on the cap at the unretired enforced to make decisions. It gets that off of the CAP and then he. He translates it into an asset eight. Oh from from Gronkowski standpoint. He goes down to the Tampa Bay making nine million dollars. There's no state income tax. You know you realize after a year off it's hard to make nine or ten million dollars just doing. Wwe endorsements like bed so. I'm sure that that's a lot more attractive. And your year further way for a all the the Danes and things that heard anything. Okay I can go do it one more time so to me. This is not a reflection on the patriot. Way At all if anything. It's completely on brand to bill does listen. I I hear all that and Love Bill Belichick. Then have to apologize to anybody for the way he operates the way he runs the Patriots. He's the greatest coach. Perhaps we've ever seen in sports history certainly the greatest coach in Nfl. History in football history. I I don't want to take any shots. Bill Belichick however. I do think this is fascinating that Tom Brady got one up. Maybe the most respected player in the NFL in the last twenty or thirty years clearly has said that he started thinking about leaving New England a year ago he wanted out of their. Here's Gronkowski Fun. Loving one of the greatest tight ends we've ever seen in all of football. He tire of doing it. The Hatred Way and the bill. Belichick way retires and then magically reappears in Tampa within two three four weeks after Tom Brady lands there. Some of this to me is a look of light. Hey if Brady and GRONK are tired of Belichick and the Patriots way there is a message being centered around the League and so I- This to me is a bit of a bad look at look. Bill check and afford a boatload of bad luck coast and nine super bowls. He's one six one two as a defensive coordinator it would take a Lotta bad looks for anybody to diminish what Bill Bella check as cop was but I do think there is a slight bad luck of two of all time greats better somewhat saying just not any fun playing in New England anymore. You can only take so much of that. We have been watching on the program earlier and he played seven of his sixteen seasons in New England and said that he was kind of worn out after his first six years in New England. He Circle back late in his career. I do think this is somewhat without diminishing bill belichick. This is somewhat of a bad look for the Patriots is think this I'm sorry coach. I do think this maps onto what would our world is in terms of what it takes to climb that mountain of success in life is not the same thing it takes to stay at the top. Say at the apex and I think that right. Now you're just saying mentality of two guys who they're like look we. We put all that we had to get to a certain place but now that we're here that equity that I've talked about before something that they want to cash in so the success of the Patriots is amazing. But all that glitters ain't gold. They're certainly underneath surfaces layers as we're learning from watching the MJ documentary throughout their dynasty that the surface level is not the only level in which people are feeling are are really experiencing that greatness so this is just two guys who have so much in the bank in terms of accolades success accomplishment and football decided. Finally maybe we want to cash some of this in and they have to do it somewhere else because we know how bill runs his bank. You're not cashing in at equity. I sent it a long time ago when when it came to. Tom Brady and his negotiations. You can't go through twenty years of a benefiting from bills ruthless approach to player personnel. And and he moved out from Great Patriots whether as see more of Rabaul or take your picky traded a bunch of way Logan Mankins. He traded the Tampa Bay. See can benefit from that and then be surprised when it happens to you so they had a disagreement as to what his worth should be. I think with with Gronkowski. You do spend a year from the game. You're not making anywhere near as much Monday if a chance to go do that again. With with a friend with a guy that you ever relationship with in a place that has no state income tax to me. That's more opportunistic than any sort of indictment on on New England. And look they're gonNA experience something different in Tampa Bay and it's one of those things where the grass isn't always greener when you go to a new place. Yeah it may be Shinier and and it may look better but winning is a lot of fun and those guys are used to that type of fun will say Marcellus you reference something the Michael Jordan last-chance documentary what went on with its cargo balls and their dynasty. There were some obviously some analysts Michael Jordan. Jerry Krause Scottie. Pippen Jerry Krause. I don't know if this is the right word if if Brady and GRONK wants to embarrass Bill Belichick but do you think they'd like to humble him and prove that it wasn't justice system. There's a another way to win games in the NFL. I don't think they're trying to embarrass him. I don't think trying to humble them. Trying to enlighten him. That there are different ways of this mountain. We understand that the Patriot way is been the most successful model. But that's not been the only way up the mountain in terms of how you go through that process and the level of enjoyment you may have and success and we go back to the dynasties and eighties and the forty niners. I remember hearing stories. About how the forty niners had contact lists practices in never hit after September. And everyone was like what? How do they win championships like that? Meanwhile in New York and Bill parcells. They're dying every single day on the field to get a couple of championships so many ways up the mountain in terms of the way to approach the game. So we look at the documentary as well. Everyone praises Michael Jordan and his killer instinct and how he went out there and was assassinated but then we also have to respect Magic Johnson and his five championships and how he did with a smile and kissing opponents before the game is still went out there and gave you bucket so I think if anything GROP Tom Brady. One show bellichik. Hey you can smell it. On the way this mountain and enlighten him to a different way bills about the sixty nine years old. I don't think he's GonNa Change that much. I might experience as it will get older. They tend to get more Resoluted in in what they believe in and I don't think there's a function of of trying to necessarily embarrass bill. They want to do well in in their opportunity that they have and and that's not a function of needing to embarrass someone else by them. Doing well I think one of the things they both have to consider is not embarrassing themselves. They're going to a situation where a ton is going to be expected for him because of what they've done in a completely different system in a completely different environment and they're gonNA have to be able to deliver at that that same level and with with Gronkowski to the past three seasons. What do you have forty five catches and twenty five catches and three touchdowns and two of those three seasons now? He's a season away so after see where he is. And you know how well? Tom Adjusted to the new environment. As well and this is a this is a completely different situation. Because you can't spend time in the building he's GonNa come in and have to adjust everything with very limited exposure and who knows what kind of off season guys very quickly. Because we gotTA GO. We gotta get to break ten fifteen seconds each. Is this going to work for Brady and Gronkowski? I think expectations are high. Now it's with all these weapons. It's about winning the Super Bowl. Do you think this is going to work? There moved to Tampa Marcellus Eric very quickly. I think it's GonNa work. I think the expectations of the Super Bowl Championship or too lofty with this off. Season with all the integration of key. Parts so fast. I think just making the playoffs and threatening others being a contender if she should expect. Yeah the expectation has playoffs that that. I think it's got a good chance of working if the expectation is that they're GonNa win the Super Bowl. I think that's too much to ask for At this point and with the environment we're in air look call Integration Manzini Genie kicking one mill. Whitlam stick around Brady Quinn. Sports College football expert. He's GonNa join us from his crypt. Speak yourself from the career presented by Hyundai more after this. You're working from home or work on your fitness. You want what you're listening to to be what you're listening to. And not what your roommates neighbors. Children or significant others are listening to everyone. Needs a great pair wireless ear buds but before you go dropping hundreds of dollars on a pair you need to check out the wireless ear buds from rake on my own hair of Ray con ear. Buds are better and easier to use than anything else I've tried. They're comfortable and easy to set up and work seamlessly with all of my devices. Have a pair of wireless ear. 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Now's the time to get the latest and greatest from raid. Khan get fifty percents off your order at by Ray con dot com slash speak. That's by ray CON DOT COM slash. Speak FOR FIFTEEN PERCENT OFF. Rakhine wireless EAR BUDS BY REICH CON dot com slash speak Greatest leader in college football. His three Jalen Hurd being jalen. Are you trying to raise money? News cowboys banner behind the name. I am too late. It's just on the wall for kids in school. That's my brother's name Maggie. Yes Yup ran. That's going to be all over the Internet. Nice yourself from the CRIB JASON. With Lot Marcellus. Wiley want a Wednesday afternoon yourself presented by Monday. All right let's move to Fort Lauderdale Florida former Notre Dame and NFL quarterback Brady. Quinn joins us from Fort Lauderdale. Brady looking good as always i. Let's start with dad. Prescott and DALLAS RUMORS STARTING TO FLOAT. About what the cowboys will do with the seventeenth pick overall room research focusing on. Utah quarterback Jordan. Love and with the cowboys be interested in taking love insane as a guy that might not be ready to play as a rookie but has a lot of upside. Should the cowboys targeted quarterback with the seventeenth? Marcel Man. No really don't like that for anybody who's taken at the cowboys with the seventeenth. Pick in the first round. Go try and draft a franchise quarterback where they already have a franchise quarterback and also have them in a favorable situation in terms of contract if you WANNA look at it for the long term. Dallas wants to give them a five year deal. He wants a four year deal. Whatever that is going to be one hundred sixty two two hundred million dollars. That's just the way the game goes for a franchise quarterback going forward that said if they don't WanNa go long term they just WanNa keep a short term. They can franchise them as did this year and next year that will be two years. Seventy million dollars once again. Favourable term for a franchise quarterback why would Dallas WanNa roll the dice on Jordan? Love to see if he could become what is. This is baseless. Nowhere drafted a quarterback at seventeen. This is all about leverage. This is the Dallas cowboys trying to do one of two things. Either push data come to the table and they go shape or lower what he's asking for or they're trying to convince change that and they might potentially be in the market for quarterback at that spot and if Jordan love drops down to them they could potentially take him and so maybe they're looking for some trade partners to potentially trade up say Jordan love so they could trade back and accumulate. Some more picks. So I think it's really accomplishes. Twofold one putting pressure on Dag with the possibility of them taking a quarterback this year strap but also letting people out there know that they potentially could be in the market trade back. I don't read into this as almost anything with gyda minute. I think the Dallas Cowboys are GonNa Take Best Player available at that spot. If they can't move back Baxter quarterback they'll come to an agreement at some point. This league is all about. What have you done for me lately? Fortunately George loves film this past year even though he does have some legitimate excuses. It's not enough to convince them that. He's a must take quarterback and player at that spot for the Dallas cowboys. They've already got their quarterback disagree with both of you. All Dash had a career. Year is greatest year and the cowboys didn't make the playoffs. And now he wants to be the highest paid quarterback in football the highest paid player in football. They can't reach an agreement. I wouldn't blame him for taking a quarterback at seventeen during love somebody. They don't really have a backup quarterback and you just don't know what Dax future is made me back at his best leads to eight mate so I wouldn't have a problem with it. Let's move on to the San Francisco. Forty niners and their general manager. John went who publicly acknowledged pretty transparent bed. He and head coach Cow Shanahan's talked about the possibility of acquiring. Tom Brady this off season and moving on from Jimmy. Garoppolo Lynch and Shanahan eventually after twenty four hours or fall agreed they lie. Jimmy Garoppolo stay. The course we're not gonNA make the move for. Tom Brady Brady Quiz smart for the forty niners to stick with Jimmy Garoppolo over Tom Brady. Yes and by the way this is. What good general managers and coaches do they go ahead and they exhaust all efforts looking at improve their team and make the roster better city talk about these sort of we call hypothetical situations. Even though there could have been a legitimate chance. They could have gotten Tom Brady. But if found out that it wasn't a good fit for them and it's honestly probably not when you look at CAL Shanahan system. What he likes to do with a lot of the move. The pocket Boots and things of that nature that Tom Brady is not going to be doing it. Forty two forty three years old now. That's not to say that cost. Shanahan would be able to work. Assist them around Tom Brady. That would allow them to be effective or good on that team. But I think they're better off right now at Jimmy Garoppolo because problem for the forty niners is. Let's say they were going to make that Mu. He was still has to be the quarterback market if this year essentially next year the solve that problem again and meanwhile you've got Jimmy Garoppolo under contract for three more years out of economic value when you look at with Dak. Prescott is asking for what you just talked about. And then Russell Wilson and then everyone area quarterback that comes up and so it keeps setting that bar higher and higher and higher so I I think for Jimmy Garoppolo. At his first year starting sixteen complete games to help his team go to a super bowl. I think it's only upside from here for me with Jimmy Garoppolo. I think they're better off staying with Jimmy G. Yeah definitely smarter. Staying with Jimmy G. Bear on a different calendar different schedule than the Tampa Bay buccaneers in terms of why today roll the dice for Tom. Brady at this age is because they didn't even make the playoffs versus the team that was in the fourth quarter leading a super bowl. So why would you wanna hit the reset button in any respect by trying to acquire Tom Brady as Brady just said you will be back a quarterback market in a year or two trying to find who's next? Who's next right now on your roster and is Jimmy G. Who has the highest winning percentage of all quarterbacks ever after twenty five gave more than even a young? Tom Brady so they're smart to stay pat. If for all the reasons you guys said. I think it's definitely smart. Jimmy Garoppolo I think he's a little loose with the football but the guys still just twenty seven twenty eight twenty nine years old. He's still prime minister financially. It works out better for you. He's on a good contract. Good deal I agree with you. Guys are. Let's move onto Marcellus quarterback in the upcoming draft to a tongue. Biolo- tour is a mystery to a lot of people is injury. Prone guy is easy to shore is a left-hander vm. Is that a problem. Being a left handed quarterback for Brady star Sol. Tell us who tool it is and why to violence is the lane and what I think. He's going to be one of the next superstars if it can stay healthy. That's the caveat here right because of the hip injury but if he can stay healthy. I do think he's GonNa be one of the next superstars as a quarterback at the NFL level. When you really break down his game you look at some of the skills you try to compare and to some of the quarterbacks that already playing within the League I mean the guy that I see the most of them move around and by time or create is Russell Wilson dating back to Russell. Wilson's time at NC state and really with Scott's you saw some of that now they're throwing motions are entirely different Russell. Russell Wilson is much longer motion whereas to is much more compact. But this kid's jot the complete package and I think teams are more apt to look at a quarterback of his stature. Not being the tallest or the heaviest our biggest. And they're okay with that because of some of the intangibles that he brings so I do think if he's able to stay healthy he's going to be one of the neck superstars at the next level. But you know that's a big question mark right now because we don't know the situation circumstance that he's entering in sale and that might be the biggest question. Mark Foreign is not just the hip but if he does in place behind a bad offensive line even as mobile as he can't be you like we've seen on film that could be a big time injured issue for a guy that could get banged up and may never reach his capability. Nfl level. Yeah I I think. He's the next great quarterback superstars even better way of describing him I if you look at what. The future of the quarterback position looks like in terms of success and accolade. We obviously have Patrick Mahomes. You have the Shah Watson right there. Lamar Jackson and if you want to say a future mount rush- more based on these youngsters who are going to be great at the at the put to was named in there as well he'll be the fourth one of that group because he throws the football better than anyone. I've seen coming out of college in terms of accuracy in terms of how he displays his mental Accu Men. Reading the defense is being able to do it all. There's not one conversation anyone is having to translate and his game to the pro level. Only conversation is will he be durable enough and no one knows that answer for him or any other prospect so if he can stay healthy trust me. He'll be owned that. Mount Rushmore Future quarterbacks. Just like the other. Three to tunnel is the most confused quarterback in this draft and I say that not trying to take the giant Potshot at two guy but Joel. Klatt said something on this show last week that I found interesting and rang true for me to talk about all the things. He's Steve Young thanks. He's Russell Wilson and facts are. He's not. He's not that mobile of a quarterback and he needs to tailor his game or limit his game a little bit more. He keeps getting hurt when trying to leave the pocket. He's not a running quarterback Steve Young. He's not even on Russell Wilson's level. And if he doesn't start changing the way he views himself and start understanding what his limitations are these injuries that have piled up on him at Alabama are gonNA pile up even quicker if he decides to get out of the pocket in the NFL and some of these guys on these NFL get a hold of his career will be short unless that confusion goes away. Brady thank you so much for joining us today. Look forward to having you back. Great job has some fun down in Fort Lauderdale. I won't become back. Jimmy Jackson is GONNA join US Dardanelles question of the day. Anybody got a problem with Michael Jordan and his light criticism of Scottie. Pippen can be first two episodes of the last chance documentary. I speak for yourself from the crib presented by a third question. While I just speak for yourself from the Crib Jason Marcellus Wiley happy Wednesday Eitam now for Dardanelles question of the day. We'll go out to his CRIB. And the CRIB. I'm Jim Jackson Darnell Jim. I offer land documentary about Michael Jordan. The Bulls got a lot of people talking about Scotty. Business conflict with bulls management in the fail. Michael Jordan actually criticized pippen for having surgery late and miss a part of the season but some are now criticising Jordan Draymond Green. Sandy was disappointed when Jordan outfitted the GM You have a problem M J. I don't have a property. I think people are disappointed because it is M J in probably at the time he said. But we all know that in situations like that when there's turmoil you're not really gonNA speak on his bad time because you don't want to disrupt the apple cart and so to speak. I mean you see right now with what's going on with Draymond and K. D. during during the time those two guys are trying to downplay what was happening within the locker room concept. Okay but now you remove yourself from the situation here a lot more things. GonNa coming out. This is typical in sports. Because at the time of what may be going on as a team you understand what Scottie. Pippen was going through Ebay. It may be wrong on your end. What he's doing. But you're not going to kind of put him out there. We could Deandra Hopkins Right now with football. He's talking about. He didn't have a relationship with bill. O'brien for six years during the course of the season. You didn't talk about it but post that time. Now it all comes out so I you know for me. I don't like calling plays out but I understand. The dynamics of what's going on a wide comes out later in regards to Michael boyfriends opinion rather than during the time of the event that it was happening a why they chose it clean. Keep things in house. I would dream on. I did have a problem with it. Look watching Michael Jordan. Talk about something that happened. Twenty plus years ago had me cringing just because he was being hypercritical of a teammate that he knew exactly what his teammate was going through and filling at that time and all this time that has elapsed has not resolved that feeling of blame or Michael Jordan. Trying to make Scottie. Pippen responsible for all of his actions based on how he was feeling about his contract being underpaid. If you're Michael Jordan. You have to look at this situation with some empathy whistle respect for your teammate and his perspective so. I thought that was Scotty. Pippin did was not just passive aggressive this place aggression and it was really unfortunate because he took it out on his teammates. He took it out on the team. So it was understandable. Michael Jordan felt a certain way. But then what you should justify his behavior or lease let time. Dissolve animus towards. His behavior is the fact that you understand why he did it in the first place so all crimes are not committed with the same intention and this was one that obviously the players had the suffered through but in reality. You know why Scottie. Pippen had to go to those limps not thought he was show a little more compassion than Jordan did. I WANNA animal context before I comment on list. I want to be crystal clear with people with Michael. Jordan was playing. I'M A HARDCORE INDIANA. Pacer Fan I did not like Michael Jordan just as a fan. I've turned into this Michael Jordan defender. Damn near Groupie. Because I feel like I'm forced to almost say doing here. Jan Michael Jordan to me has done absolutely nothing wrong. Here in the town was going on. He showed Scottie Pippen. Great support by figuring out a way to keep the Bulls competitive while Scottie. Pippen was trying to handle his business while he was going at it with bulls management. He handled at the time. This never came out now. Even at fifty six fifty seven fifty eight years old whatever Jordan is even now. He's being loyal to Scotty Pippin. This alleged criticism very mild but also needs to be understood in the context of the first two episodes of this documentary. And what we think is. GonNa be the rest of the documentary. Michael Jordan is taking a massive shot at Jerry. Krause and Jerry REINSDORF. He's heavily involved with this documentary and it is a shot at the incompetence and the greed and the bigotry of Jerry. Krause and Jerry REINSDORF. That's what the last chance DOC is. He is defending Scottie. Pippen with his documentary and pointing out the stupidity of these two guys that ruined his dynasty now in his fifties and one day Dr Male. You'll be there and others to be there. You Start Looking back things. In retrospect and start thinking how. I should have handled it. And so I'm sure Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen and had the conversation like you know what man we were going for a second three peat. It was over with at that point in terms of you ever getting the money out of Jerry Reinsdorf so you. Having this surgery late really served no purpose you would have been better off just playing it out. 'cause you relieve at anyway again ended up getting your money from Houston and Portland and other places. There was a better way to handle it in that season. That what Scottie Pippen. And I guarantee you Michael Scottie. I've had this conversation and probably agree. I just don't see shot here at Scotty. Pippin I see Michael Jordan loyal to him in ninety seven ninety eight and in twenty twenty a big dump on Jerry Krause Jerry. Reinsdorf hats off the Michael Jordan with to the picket a step further to during that time. He did. Come out and support Scotty. Even when the doctor said you know okay? Let's take a look and see if it will Heal itself before we go to surgery but during the course of the year he tried to figure out Michael Jordan way. The team has to still continue to win games. But it's got without but if you look at society in itself in business it happens across the board you have disgruntled employees who leave later whether they're a partner in the law firm at their doctor. It didn't matter when they're going through some kind of turmoil with the company. They kind of support the narrative of the company at that time. But if you just away or five years away from the situation they're going to kind of spill the beans on what's been going on. I guarantee you a little bit later at the Tom. Brady retire. Okay it's GONNA be. Some pain said about his tenure in time at New England that he would not say at the time that he was there he may sound like. There's somebody under the bus. But he's Jimmy context on what he felt at the time and how he's building now is it right. I'M GONNA say is right. But his natural we see all the time across the board whether it's sport whether it's politics or whether it's business they you jim are. We gotTA keep it moving towards an all time great. Nfl offense attack oh former USC TROJAN IS GONNA join us from his crib down in Florida and tell us how he survived. The Corona virus. Speak for yourself from a career presented by Hyundai more after this speak for yourself from the crib presented by Hyundai time to pull off down in Florida right outside of Jacksonville. And let's talk to Tony Boselli former NFL rape a member of the one thousand nine hundred ninety. All decade team also left tackle. Tony but you're now known for you came down with and you survived the corona virus. You wait. You're a triathlete. You're one of the greatest time. How did YOU COME DOWN WITH CORONA? Well first of all listen to this. Put the brakes on the triathlete. That was a long time ago right when I got football. I'm back again and so I'm gonNA place all your diet going there but yeah I mean who's crazy. I mean the whole thing starts with you know you hear about this Krono virus. I wasn't worried about it much and I started feeling sick and found out that I was at an event where someone had it and next thing I knew I and I come back operative. My wife was fathered by two boys ended up getting it and even after. I got it you know I didn't think much of it because I'm healthy and forty seven years old. It's not a big deal and a couple days later ended up in the ICU. At Mayo Clinic Soza crazy process. What did this experience teach you about yourself? Well I'll tell you makes you appreciate Every day and the people around you the people who you know family and friends because the uncertainty of what was going on was eye opening to me because I go to the hospital after my doctor told me to go and I I in the emergency room and they take x rays in my lungs and they say you need the ICU. And next thing I know all these smart doctors telling me they don't know what's going to happen to me and they're put me on oxygen all these drugs. I'm thinking what do you need? You don't know what's going to happen like I could die from this. And he realized how those people are dying from this virus so it makes you have some serious conversations with God and also makes us all right. There's no guarantees in this life. Let's enjoy this. Enjoy what you got and family and friends and make the most of it now Tony. Let's stay with this experience like physically. What did you feel? How was your body feeling when you were experiencing this remember when you play up my you can't breathe? You can't catch your breath endeavor game I mean that's so I mean so it's like all of a sudden I'm you know one day I wake up. My lungs were full of fluid. And I'm I'm not saying I can't breathe but my leasing and it's a struggle. You is the best way to say it and when I got to that point is you start hearing the report Gary. Plus your whole body just feels like you have the flu. I guess I mean you're you're sore. You're tired see teague and and so it was as bad as I've ever felt and and what you go through it you know feeling healthy again is tell you. That's one of the things. I won't take for granted because you know process. You know maybe really realize that health is something that is a blessing and it's a gift in the and we have and it's pretty good now. You ended up at the Mayo Clinic as you said and I'm certain that your mind had to go to some dark places. Did you ever think you might not recover? Yeah your mind. Goes really dark places when they came in and said they had to up the oxygen levels. I was on wasn't enough and in the pulmonologist came in and said. Hey we're not sure with viruses GONNA do. We're going to do our best attack and want to wait and see at that moment. You know the thought of is going to die in the ICU by myself. Because your family's not there and you have to fight those thoughts and I thought that's I think we're my face came in and you you know you have those conversations you start praying and you try to stay positive because it's a battle that one and if you give into the negative thoughts it's not going to be good for anybody now. I need you to put your doctor's hat on because your and your two sons also contract. The Corona Butcher. Three daughters didn't so what theories have you come up with didn't contract it either? They got it and they're a symptomatic like a lot of people are or they have great immune systems in the history of mankind. Because they were you know. My two boys came home from college there on spring break which creates a chaotic situation in my house because my three girls are princesses or quiet. They're so good. I boys are nuts in so here. We are this house all sick in my girls doing all the work. I mean they're serving US making food cleaning up and somehow they never got it or they never got sick. So we're actually as soon as he is an antibody test. Come out in a more widespread. We're GONNA get him tested. And maybe they got it and they were saying but I'm glad that they'd have to go through it now. What precautions are you taking any concern that you can catch it a second time? No I'm not concerned about it. I mean I actually just did. Some blood work today again. at the Mayo Clinic to find out about the antibodies. I have very high in anybody. Count Anybody's count. And so they say right now noon. How long did immunity will last? But right now I you know my antibody level is high enough where I'm GonNa Start giving donating blood and and the plasma so they can spin out the antibodies for really sick people in so. I'm waiting to hear when I start giving giving blood so that hopefully can help some people so right now. I think I'm okay and so you know I'm still trying to be smart. You know because half the people you know you go out and I'm trying to ride my bike a little bit. Get some exercise bill by lung. Patsy backed up and people look at both think. Oh there's the there's the corona guy you know try to try to respect what I want to say he's listening. I'm the safest human being to be around right now because I already got it and do have the antibodies. But you know so. We're trying to be smart about it and We'll see what comes where it goes. Tony let's move to your career. It was an incredible seven year. Run in the NFL but probably a little shorter to make you a first ballot hall of Famer. You've been a finalist or times. Go ahead and be a little arrogant. Make your case. Why should Tony Boselli be in the hall of fame? Well I mean I'm going to be careful because you know it's one of those things that self promoting I mean it sounds Jason. Your offense law. That's really what we do. And that's the defense guys. The wide receivers were soft boat. I mean but I think the greatest thing I could say you know my career what's meant most me is the guys I played against all Fain said Sam all Famer I played in an era where some of the best tackles played the game. One that you jason from really got behind Willie wrote was coming up for fame is a great player. We played is anti enduring. That great era. I was first team all pro several times and so I think those are the things you know my peers. What they say about me. The guys who played the position that means more than anything. Obviously I want to be in the famed. One day hall flew at happens it it works out but it's really that's up to the voters and we'll wait apt tony. I want to tell you the story. This one of my favorite stories in the world. It's it's something you probably don't know about but I wanna get your reaction to this story so everyone always asked me. Who was the best tackle ever played against an icee Walter Jones? But they don't ask me is. Who's the best tackle I've ever seen or valuated are scouted and it was you Tony Boselli? So let me give you a little back story on this in Nineteen ninety-six. You played against the buffalo bills in the playoffs. And you went against the Bruce Smith and Bruce didn't have a sack in that game and you guys want their playoff game. You come back in nineteen ninety-seven. I'm a rookie. I'm not getting a lot of reps especially in past situations. I'm just there for the run and I remember that was important game to Bruce and he was looking forward to going against you again in ninety seven. You shut them down again. Two Times Bruce Smith and Tony Boselli fast forward to the next year. We're playing you and nineteen ninety eight and now member APPs I'm going against. Yeah and I was living there watching you scouting you and in the middle of scouting you. Bruce says Marcellus. Sit Show as down this week. You are not going against him. He's all mine because he wanted to. Finally get one you sell. Let me tell you the true when he said bad to me. Everyone thought I should've felt embarrassed. I was so relieved because I was like. I do not want to go against that. Damn animal on the field now. That her time he finally got a sack on you but when you hear the Great Bruce Smith had to go through that and much of a mid to anxiety during against you make you feel now. He's a great player. I mean he's one of the best ever. I always loved playing against them. And I've never been more scared going into a game as a second year player. Nineteen ninety-six defensive. Mvp and no one had blocked them all year. So I had a good game. It was fun. I like playing him like getting nasty with the physical and I'd like to know back. Look that their game or sells it might have been a coverage sack. I mean I'm not sure you know you gotta go the whole ball of by the way. It's not like you had any day at the beach. He had to go on the other side of goods. Leon who was you know wasn't easy to go get my man big serves either really tell. I thought I was actually doing better and I was like. This is hail over here as well so strong right plus his putter is is take your heart is still you? Break your chest plate. Would that is yes. Tony really appreciate the time we run out of time. Sadly Marceau's probably doesn't know vis but coming out of college a lot of people call. Tony Basilic the next Jason Whitlock Marcellus. I watched your tape a ball state and you're a big influence of what not to do at left tackle and so all those things I saw you. I said I think it'd be a great player if I don't do that. And then talk to. Joe Walsh Mangum played against you at ball state. He said listen. I played against this guy named Jason. I'm telling you you're going to be a great player because you're nothing like him so I gotta go. Jimmy's around the corner. Don't go anywhere. Speak for yourself boy after this.
Final Takeaways From the 'Last Dance' Finale
"Hey Kelly and welcome to the ring podcast network. The Ringer is launching. A new podcast. From the guys who brought you assessment as family barbecue called Baseball Barbecue hosted by Jake Mints and Jordan Shusterman bringing you the good the bad and the utterly bizarre corners of the baseball world and everything that makes it special throughout the off season. They'll dive into the rabbit hole on some of their favourite fascinations from the homerun Derby to baseball brawls and much more once this season returns they'll break down the latest. Mlb News and developments. You can subscribe to Baseball Barbecue on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to the NBA. Show my name is Chris. Ryan editors the Ring Dot Com. And I'm joined by my buddy. Be Winter on your Tex Winter Your Phil Jackson. I think that when when they re write our story that's going to be our sorry Shawn Fantasy. What's up man curse? We all know that I'm pippen and Jordan. Let's let's not be ridiculous here and I've got it's early on Monday morning and I've got some backaches and your carry me through this finals game. Show we're GONNA talk about the last dance last two episodes and we're GonNa talk about the documentary itself because I think obviously the last couple of weeks tons of people including the two of us have talked about Jordan. We've talked about what Jordan. Meta we talked about what Jordan was like to watch in the nineties. And we've watched it unfold as it does as there's almost everything in two thousand twenty. We we watched Jordan become a football. That people kind of US going back and forth to argue over all sorts of hot button issues. But I kinda wanted to talk to you at the top about the idea of of last dance as a documentary now. We've we've done the disclosures before you've talked about working with Jason in the past in the rarest got connections with Jason. I think we're both really big fans of this of this movie but I want to ask you like at the end when you finished last dance. Were you left? Satisfied as a as a viewer. Did you find it buying experience easily? A satisfying experience Probably even more so than I expected I loved just being with I think so many people around the country who care about sports and even those who don't care about sports had something to look forward to every Sunday night that gave them an astrologer hit and I think that's an interesting way to approach this conversation. Because there's been. I don't WanNa say controversy but an ongoing conversation about whether or not a nostalgia hit equates to journalism and I don't think that this necessarily was a pure act of journalism but I also don't think that it was puppet tearing either. I don't think that somebody you know. Put their hand up Jason Harris back and forced him to make a certain kind of film. I think it's a fascinating and very modern hybrid of where access documentary. Journalism is right now and it was immensely fun to watch and there were a couple of reasons for that one. Obviously we're dealing with archival footage from the ninety seven ninety eight season that most people have never seen before and two were dealing with archival footage that we've seen over and over and over again and I never tire of watching which is the history of the NBA basically from nineteen eighty four through nineteen ninety eight which is for you and I is a glory period and we get to do it with through the Lens of a person that we virtually never hear from in this candid and acidic and still indignant way in Michael Jordan. So I personally I loved it I I you know you and I have both seen one through eight many weeks ago and nine and ten were fresh for us so it'll be interesting to kind of impact but what about you I mean. Did you feel like this was beyond entertaining? Was Worthy of something beyond what? Bill has called the documental. Yeah I felt like it. Basically replicated the sensation of watching sports. I felt as invested even though I knew the ending as invested with the sort of details of of plays like how Reggie Miller exploded through Jordan's chest or how John Stockton or Steve. Kerr would find open space or watching. Scotty PIPPIN CLEARLY LABORING UP THE COURT AGAINST UTAH. After he had kind of done his back in and a lot of that stuff really was was a bomb for me. And I'll always have a really fun place in my heart for this documentary because of that. I do think it was really fascinating too because it took me back to a time in my life when I did not actually think about sports entertainment. I didn't really think about whether or not. I liked players. You know they were either better than the guys I liked or worse than the guys I liked and I also didn't feel like I had a ton of choice about who I liked and part of that was formed by Jordan. Part of that relationship to sports was formed by this guy. Who's just like fuck? You abstained Chicago. I'm coming back and taking what's mine. You guys think you're better than me. I will crush you and that actually was how I thought. Sports worked for very long time. That's the story that the movie tells like the film is book ended by this quote Jordan gives after he's drafted re says. I WanNa make the Chicago Bulls like the Boston. Celtics like the Los Angeles Lakers. I WanNa give the city and this team that same identity which feel so foreign now that that feels like it happened in a toll key novel you know like the fact that you know player empowerment and the the ability for players to move from team to team and the fact that the league in many ways is a player league and not a team league just it does feel. It reminds me of watching fifties and sixties. Nfl films about players in black and white. That almost felt as if they're operating in different sport. Yeah we're then they were like yeah. I broke my nose four times in that game. And you're just like okay. You know I wanNA talk a little bit about the end and I think that this is Kinda doubles as a conversation about Jordan. But I want to talk a little bit about foils and villains because Jordan's villain and foil at the end of his career with Chicago Wild. You could make the argument that it's Jerry Krause Jerry Reinsdorf from the people who are trying to break up this dynasty or don't WanNa pay for this dynasty what we get on the court is the Utah Jazz and I remember while I think. This documentary taught me that those series is a lot more closer than I remembered. There was a feeling that I had a lot watching Jordan during those days. That you've kind of toying with people the idea of saying he's got. This is something. That's very hard to say now. I remember thinking that about Marian Rivera. I remember thinking about about like Tiger Woods and I remember thing about Michael Jordan Marian Rivera eventually gettable by for a long time was just like Verizon you can turn game off watching Jordan against Utah. I don't remember thinking man. Utah's really. They've got their number. This could happen and I wonder whether or not that contributes in in terms of historian graffiti like in my mind the BBC that lasts commits is making. That series seemed closer than ones. I don't know if I'm remembering that wrong. Well I mean they do push it to six games in in that final season. And IT'S INTERESTING. I think if people had grown grown bored of the Spurs mechanistic competent highly structured style of play in the Os in twenty tens like. Let me tell you the jazz were held terms of this like monochromatic indestructible style of basketball. Seeing those highlights. Last night obviously took me back to a time. I was watching so much basketball. Probably more than watch now in in that exact period sixteen years old when that series was happening and the NBA was a huge part of my of my personal life in a very weird way. And I watched a lot of UTAH. Jazz game something. I just wouldn't do now the same way I wouldn't. I didn't watch a lot of spurs games in the two thousand ten and that was obviously just an extraordinary once in a lifetime team. I mean to top twenty five top thirty guys in NBA history. Were on that team. You know to me. It wasn't shocking to remember how close it was because of how skilled. I thought that team was the secondary and tertiary players on that team. Were Really Great Jeff. Hornacek was on that team. That was a really really special team and I think in like so. Many teams like the Knicks from that era like the Sun's from that era like the Sonics from that era like the Pacers from that era as we saw last night if any of those teams if there were nobles if any of those teams had would have had a chance to rise and become the dominant team of that era. That's part of the reason why it's part of the case for MJ. As the greatest player of all time is there's just a sense that the competition was so much stronger from nineteen ninety. Three one thousand nine hundred and the NBA than it has been in the last ten years even still. I completely understand what you're saying by the time we got through five MBA championships. It didn't seem very dramatic and in fact it felt like if Mj the Bulls didn't win it would have been a massive let down because of all of the conversation on the last dance. And because of the way that their position their season was positioned. So it's it's a paradox in a way if they had lost or had gone to seven games and squeaked it out it would have been like it's actually was kind of disappointing season for the pulse which is strange to say but also. I. I don't WanNa underestimate just how punishing it was to watch. Stockton Malone night after night after night after night. Because they were they were a machine and it's a testament to those both teams that they beat them twice and the second time in their own building. Which as I recall was just the most incredible homecourt advantage barring the Bulls in the NBA. Yeah I mean Reggie Miller calls going back to Chicago a death sentence if you go back to Chicago three one. He's like it's a death sentence. Reggie Miller by the way. I thought fantastic in this documentary. Excellent Great Great Narrator. He can be such a cornball sometimes on on doing color commentary during Games. I wish I we got this Reggie Miller. I know obviously like he gets the benefit of hindsight and it's talking about himself but I thought he was so funny and so candid and also still. Kinda like I'm pretty good. You know what I mean like I get during this number. Somebody follow on twitter named Mike Beach. Last night was tweeting. I think this was the dude who is like when you look at Reggie Miller's numbers that it's just like fourteen point seven points a game but then just hit like only the biggest shots in the world and was just an absolute like he was just an assassin at the end of games. You don't have to tell me as an experiment. Nobody tortured me. More than Reggie Miller Miller Torture Knicks fans more than Michael Jordan. I think Michael Jordan and there was an air of magisterial grace allegations as it was something handed down from God Reggie Miller was as if Satan came from below I mean he he. He absolutely tortured people and you're right though the way that he talked about. Mj and those bulls teams is very similar. To the way that a lot of the superstars who were interviewed in present day talked about him in this film which is with adulation and admiration and completely uncomplicated. Acceptance of the fact that he was the greatest. You know if you listened to Barclay talk if you watch stockton last night in the episode. You sensed that there was no debate. You know there was no arrogance or anger. There was it was almost like we. Even though we all lost we were grateful to have been part of this period of time in bed basketball history which is just so unusual and and when we get whatever. Lebron's the last dance is twenty years from now. I'll be very curious to see if his contemporaries speak about him in the same way. I can't imagine Chris Paul or James Harden or Russell Westbrook or durant reflecting on Lebron quite the same way I could be wrong but it's so unusual and you're right Reggie Miller identifying. Mj Is Black. Jesus saying I only called him black. Jeez or Jordan Jordan from that period on was was fascinating. I think that I was going to ask you about next. Last dances which. I'm sure it's a really hot topic today. I think Bill Ryan talked about it last night. Even like what could be do next and I WANNA to talk to you about the possible execution of Lebron one to me though selfishly and this would have been almost this would have been impossible and also would've gotten maybe like ten percent of the ratings. This film last aunts ends like return of the Jedi. I wanted it to end like godfather to I wanted the next fifteen years I wanted Jordan wearing the four five. I want buying the Hornets at. I want being confronted with not being able to do the thing that you know you were the greatest at and and watching the Zeller brothers do it and watching you know watching these guys do it and and being forced and then also what it was like for a guy so critical of krause and Reinsdorf to now be an owner when we never get that kind of candor about so many different things but it ended just where I wanted it to get started in a lot of ways. Yeah you make a good point I I will say I felt like the greatest revelation of the whole series was specifically what he said at the end when Jason shares the IPAD WITH HIM TO SHARE JERRY. Reinsdorf comments about why they didn't bring the team back Is certainly had never read or heard. Michael Jordan's reaction to the end of that dynasty specifically in the mechanics of why it happened. It seems like some of the responsibility sits with Phil Jackson who clearly had just decided that he was done with this organization and wanted a new chapter but that that was largely driven. By what cross and Reinsdorf did Jordan uncomplicated Lee? Saying I want to get seven. And they didn't let me get seven and the fact that that does lead to this very strange period where he walks away from the for a few years and then he comes back as a wizard and then he attempts to you know he buys stake in the Hornets. And then you know he is where he is today. The fact that there's this kind of five year window of competition in the League that we don't see is one of the craziest. What if I can imagine you know bill and Ryan did talk about this last night? What if he had gone to the Knicks or what? If he had gone to another team at that time that would have been interesting personally. The specific example that Jordan laid out. Which is the Ken? We get seven. Can we all go on one year? Deals and get seven as bowls is just an extraordinary. Whatever because as we've seen from even this warriors semi dynasty over the last five years four in a row just feels impossible. It just feels impossible. I mean that's the thing about the last dance team is that they do weather half of a season without Scotty and they weather have a a whole season of Dennis at any given moment looking to Decamp to Vegas Wrestlemainia Times Filkin. Burn poems and a Coffee Cup. You know like there a certain amount of tricks that you can use that work because the tricks are being played in a very specific chapter in a story. You can't necessarily do that forever. Like I'd be very curious to know how many times Gregg Popovich did really meaningful halftime speeches. That talked about leaving everything on the court and like forever starts right now over the course of years with Tim. Duncan David Robinson Tony Parker mainly because those guys have worked. That was the introduction of a basketball team as a corporation. Almost you know what I mean like a beautiful corporation but the idea that you know every day's you guys come to work. Nobody goes to Wrestlemainia. Nobody ever says they don't want to go into a game when I asked him to go into a game. Nobody gets mad because they don't get the ball. Throw into the matter on a sideline out of bounce play and that's how that works and that was honestly pretty much. The next big basketball story is the is the rise of the Spurs after Jordan. It's true that lead to such a fascinating I don't want to say it's a fallow period. Necessarily but you essentially enter that time when teams like those Pistons teams become dominant and we go absent a dynasty for a little while. I guess 'cause Kobe and Shack are the suggestion of a dynasty but ultimately were to combustible to stay together. Yeah they don't have the same six to seven to eight year. Lifespan that those bulls teams had. And it's probably reasonable to say that that can never happen again. Especially because of the the unusual salary cap mechanics that led to durant joining the Warriors. And something that it feels like especially in light of recent events just seems impossible. I don't know if you're ever going to be able to have another team unless a team drafts. Extraordinarily well and experiences like key injuries to its two best players. And then you find yourself in a situation where Zion Williamson teams up with Lebron and Anthony Davis something in that of that effect. It just doesn't seem like we're ever GonNa see something quite like this. That's not diminish what what Kobe and Shack accomplished. It's not to diminish Kobe's five championships. It's not to diminish anything that the Pistons did or the Spurs are. The Miami Heat Accomplished in the last twenty years it's just this specific thing this this air of inevitability that came with those bowls victories and the fact that we didn't have that one last chance at it we talk about sliding doors all the time but it's it's one of the most incredible sliding doors possible and I actually to your point about what I would've liked to have seen. I think I'm just curious. What nine hundred ninety eight ninety nine and two thousand look like for I'm Jay? How did he spent his time? We know was he just golfing and gambling and smoking cigars was. He wracked with doubt and frustration. About the way that things played out did he did. He want to make a comeback. Sooner but didn't was it really that he saw Vince. Carter and T MAC and Iverson and this new generation of guys and so. That's the only thing that compelled him or is there something else you're right. There is a now a hole in that story that we feel like we spent ten hours with the guy that we probably now onto filled. Somehow and I don't know if that will ever get filled in the way that we want. Yeah there is a notable. I mean it's Jordan story so this wasn't a requirement nor is it ever requirement but there was a notable lack of. I thought we were going to get a reunion shot honestly. I thought that there was going to be everybody in a room together. All the surviving members of that team and even the ownership group in that we would get jerry and Jordan reinsdorf Jordan. Maybe in the same place or that we would get this kind of group of guys together. Finally and you know there was a lot of passing the IPAD back and forth. And that's become. I would love to see that. I would love to see some classic documentaries that I've seen if if the director could hand the subject the an ipad being like this is what this guy said about you and just get those reactions. That would be pretty amazing. Movie Aeromar can can start using that. Yeah I mean. We don't get the impression though the MJ feels a brotherhood with those guys. It's up to Steve. Curtis say that you know what I mean. Executive it's not. Mj WHO is like? Yeah like at the end of the day. These guys were the closest thing to brothers that I had you know other than my my brothers. No he really comes off more. Like General Patton here. You Know Than Than Julius Caesar. He's not an of the people leader he is. I need you to rise to my level of expectation. You're right and most most traditional feel-good sports documentaries you know. This was about that that undefeated dolphins team. You would have gotten that shot that you're talking about where you know. The the surviving members of that team put their fists up to the screen and show their ring together and and Stan gracefully astrid history and the the Bulls teams. You could tell me you watch the film. It certainly seems like Judd Bush Ler and Bill Wennington even Scottie to some extent have this complicated and resentful and frustrated but also odd relationship to Mj. I think we should talk about Steve Kerr little bit. Just because I think he is such a fascinating figure and he feels exactly like the kind of person who if he did not go onto one of the most successful coaching careers in recent memory. And A bringer podcast host. His story would have been one of those like this should be a movie unto itself kind of stories and maybe it will be but that that little ten minute pocket. History of Steve's life and the tragedy that happened to his father and the the revelation that he and Michael never talked about what happened to their fathers was amazing. Like if you and I both eat a Turkey sandwich with ten days of each other. I'm like Chris. Turkey sandwiches right Bro. Incredible stuff turns out. It was meant to be to guys wearing hats. Could've guessed it. Yes so that's I mean that just shows so much about how compartmentalized. Mj was an. And maybe even Steve Kerr was. I think it's hard to say. He obviously he. Steve is such a graceful and thoughtful guy and it. That's such a powerful thing that happened to him but I came away with even more respect for him and more fascinated by him and even more confused about Michael Psychology. You know that even the people that he was closest to who had proven themselves to him you know who had stood up to him or who had risen to the challenge in those tense moments that he keeps referring to over and over again in the film he still just was really distant from them. I don't know as as somebody who's very close to a lot of the people that I work with. I find him deeply unrelatable in that way. Oh I thought that. The portrait of his relationships towards the end of the documentary was actually quite telling. I mean the fact that essentially his best friends or these three guys who are responsible for his safety but also responsible for maintaining his image to some extent with the moderate shot and that it's like two security guards and Ahmad Rashad or is crew And that one of those security guards clearly a father figure and his is like a stand in for his dad that it's like that scene where they're sitting and they're kinda doing like David Ma'am dialogue in the backwards like some can some. Can't nobody actually talks like that with their friends. You know really I mean maybe if I played it before. Nba Finals Game. I would say stuff like that to you but like it despite the fact that we were getting this sort of like lost rare footage of this guy in repose or in like a private moment. It didn't feel that private at all. It looked exactly like Michael Jordan before going into battle. But he's Daniel Plain view. He has assembled this coterie of people who support him and protect his vision. Even if they don't I don't WanNa say like but even if it's a it's a by circumstances situation. Obviously his ability to develop trust with people was very complex and the people who protected him or bound by that trust and so it's understandable that those became the people that were closest to him in life. I don't think that his relationships were cynical. I thought that the portrayal of Gus Latte and that father figure role that he took on in his life was quite touching and i. I kind of wish that there was a little bit more of that in the film on it. Felt like one of the you know the idea that Michael was the first person who realized that Gus was sick and called his wife to alert her to the fact that he needs to get treatment showed that very rare that kind of vanishing empathetic side to him. The construction of the bubble around him and the unwillingness to let the people that he played with enter. That bubble is for lack of a better word. Just weird it is. It's understandable if you you don't you WANNA be friendly with Larry Bird but also treat him like your enemy if you want to be friendly with Carl Malone and treat them like your enemy for Scotty and you know Horace Grant and Michael obviously don't have a very good relationship right now and John. Paxson seems to have a complex relationship to Michael as an ambassador for the Bulls for many years. All those guys just feeling a little bit distant is just I just I can't. I can't connect to it. I don't I don't get and I'm very competitive person. I just can't understand that. Well I I think they. You're competitive person. I'm actually not. I'm not particularly competitive person but I think they both of us probably would look at the fellowship that you get when with working with people and be like. There's no really reason to be competitive without that. You don't even know or can you really get where you need to go without the support of people around you. Do you think it's because he was so successful before the age of thirty that he was able to raise the bar of success in his own mind and then could not imagine holding other P- not holding other people to that the perhaps them one of the more revolutionary things that he did was that I don't think he subscribed to typical or at least traditional ideas of what teams were about. I think he did at Carolina. I think he did look at that as a kind of paradise and and not only does it a place where he learned so much about basketball but clearly he loved Dean Smith and seemed to enjoy his time there and he wanted to stay. Dean Smith is like you gotta go. He went back to Carolina to Rehab. His his injury. And that's something that comes up a lot like when you talk to MBA players. You see them. They're like the best time of my life was definitely college. You don't even then even if I was only there for eight months. I still consider myself a Kentucky guy you know I think there were Jordan smash that idea like all the stuff that we're taught growing up about what teams are supposed to be. He was like no. The team is here to prove their worth to me because otherwise we're never going to get anywhere and I'm not here to make them feel good. I'm not here to make them feel safe. I'm not here to make allow them to be vulnerable. And and obviously what we saw in this country was it went beyond just like. I'm a tough love guy. He was like actively seemed like an asshole. You know what I mean like on the on the planes if you looked up on a team plane and saw guy with a giant cigarette and opponent bottled budweiser taking a bunch. Taking money from a bunch of guys who made like one tenth of what he made. You'd probably just be like what the fuck is happening. I thought that shooting contests they had during the Utah series at the end of the film was very telling all the members of the team are essentially taking it was like a forty footer from the right corner outright on the hash mark there every player steps up and they most of them miss or miss. Badly Steve Kerr even kind of just misses pretty badly and MJ steps up. And he launches one and of course he swishes at me wins the competition most competitive guy in the history of the world and he is just downright insufferable after he makes the shot he is just like ooh and just shaking his head and. Lording it over everybody there. This is the wealthiest player on the court. He's the most successful player of his generation. He is the undisputed King of the NBA. And he hit a forty footer in practice time competition and he would not let a single person not hear about it. That's like that's mentality thing like you just have to I. I said I really like to win but then when I do win it's I'm actually embarrassed by it and he is. The opposite is never more rejoicing. Never more emotionally open and exultant than when he wins something and I thought the seven and eight ended with that extraordinary moment. Where he we see him on the floor kind of crying in the locker room seemingly reflecting on his father's death and how difficult it was to get back to that moment and then that famous moment after he wins the fifth championship when he stands up on the scoreboard and has flashing five to the audience and then six when he sort of raising the six fingers in the air. And he's clutching. The Larry O'Brien trophy and that's the only time when it seems like we see somebody who does who has the restrictor plate off. You know who doesn't can't control themselves at. That's so fascinating on the one hand. You don't want any person to be like that you would never tell teach your kids. Here's how you act when you win but on the other hand it's so pure it's so undiluted it's so raw in in a complicated way. It's it was a reminder of just his total unique quality as as figure Lebron does just does not bring that quality to the game in fact the criticism of Lebron is that feels very managed rehearsed. Almost you know his joy people have criticized him and said that those are kind of like crocodile tears situation with Jordan. Like I buy it. I that he is a sociopath. I totally buy it. It's part of what makes me wonder whether or not there are other layers to the end of this movie and whether or not this is a guy who could have handled losing to a Miami Heat or New York Knicks in one thousand nine hundred and walking off the court what he says towards the end where he was like everybody would have come back. Scotty would have taken some convincing. But when you put seven and the idea of seven in front of him like he thinks he would come back. I don't know you know you know what I mean. And I don't know whether or not at the end if they were like well. Look you can come back and we can do the best. We can bring these other guys back but without Phil. Obviously they weren't GonNa play and I just have a hard time imagining Michael Jordan losing in the Eastern conference semifinals and being like okay. That's it was he quit. He quit after that. You know that's the thing about him. He was go bigger. Go home he won three. He stepped away from the game. He won three. He stepped away from the game. He came back. Didn't have any more stepped away from the game. Bought a team like there's no middle ground to this guy that ninety eight season. This is something that Ryan and bill talked about in depth and and they have more expertise. I think than we do about it but that was a you know the ninety eight ninety nine season. The lockout season was really important. Obviously because that was the only time I think in Mba his that eight seed the NBA. Finals it was the necklace and the east was very week that year. And I think even if that bulls team had had a slightly different configuration if. Mj was there. I would not bet against them. I just would not would. It have been a less compelling long-term narrative for Michael Jordan. If he'd lost in his final season yeah I mean that would that would have softened the myth. I think the fact that he gets to say I won. Six of my. I finished the season. The champion in six of the set. My seven final seasons is absolutely incredible. I mean there's no really no precedent for that going back maybe to the Celtics in the in the sixties. So you're right. I still really would've wanted to see it even if lost though. Yeah me too and I think as as a movie I would have liked to have seen them interrogate the vacuum after that because like you said he him just being like it's maddening that we didn't get to go it's clearly something that keeps them up at night it's clearly an ulcer for him is is the fact that they didn't go for seven ultimately. What did you think of the way that this film was the last dance but it was also trying to tell the story of of somebody is immense as Michael Jordan and the fashion that it did with the timelines that are collapsing on one? Another and also the way in which they use these supporting characters and would give them their almost their entry into a collection of short stories about him. I thought it was effective. It felt like Jason Harris talked about this. Felt like a both a virtue and a hang-up of needing it to be ten hours. And Jason clearly didn't originally envision this as a ten hour filming vision that I think is a four hour film and then it was extended to aid and then it was extended to ten. I don't think you needed the story of Dennis Rodman. I don't think you need it. Even the life story of Scottie. Pippen to make this film. In fact in the final two episodes I was most compelled when it focused solely on Michael I the psychological exploration of Michael. What drove Michael and Michael's friendships and Michael's enemies and the bitterness? And that bizarre. Sense of competitiveness that we see all the way through the Brian Russell story in that he essentially destroys Brian Russell Soul. That was the the movie to me now. The Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen stuff. Those are things that because they were necessarily more surface. I knew all of them. There was no new information there. There was new information in the. Mj portions of the film because there was so much depth and attention paid to them. I don't necessarily hold it against anybody. I I pointed this out the sequence of of the worm in that first year with the Bulls set to Beastie Boys. The Maestro was just like the coolest. Nba Footage I. I can recall seeing his style of play which also pissed me off as a fan but was so incredibly effective and help probably helped me understand a little bit about what it means to play basketball. That isn't just dunking on people. That was great and I was happy to have it. I do think we could have gotten a film here. That was a little bit more like there will be. Blood was a little bit more like this deep psychological portrait of one crazed person as opposed to the sputtering effect but it does also sets the foreground for Rodman disappears to go to WCW during the finals at sets the foreground from Michael for Scotty hurting his back. And what that means in the counterbalance between them so there was purpose in every choice. I appreciated the purpose. What did you think about the collapsing timelines? Did you. Through ten episodes that worked? Yeah I think of anything. The I felt the stretching for ten stuff towards towards the Utah stuff because I felt like we almost spent more time micro analyzing the Utah series than we did like Detroit series And and I you know Jordan rules and it was kind of like I felt like that was brisk compared to how Utah's treated in the last two episodes it if anything. I think I would have probably had the stomach for them. Winning the title in the Ninth Episode and having the Tenth Episode. Be entirely about what happens right after that and also maybe some recognition of. Who's coming into the League? You know that idea that Jordan is looking around and and not even like I need him to go through but like what did he think of? Iverson. And what did he think of Kobe? And what did he think of? Mac and what did he think of these guys who are obviously going to be the next generation of stars? What the time did do is allow this to be a story about the nineties. Not just Jordan and that was that's what I thought was really cool and I thought there was a shot of Jordan leaving the United Center. Gosh can't remember after watch which game it might have been one of the Indiana Games in the ninth episode and it's his Red Porsche with the air license plate. And it's I think it's episode and it's a woman standing in a pair of of mule shoes which were of like popularized by Jennifer Aniston. And like she's just standing there. It's just her foot as the car takes off and I was like that. Might be like a quintessential shot of the ninety S. You Got Jennifer Aniston disuse as Michael Jordan drives away in a vanity license plate. Porsche and I actually thought be using Pearl Jam as the last song was very you know knowing gesture towards another group that kind of weathered all of this and are still around and are still an important part of people's lives like Pearl Jam equally not equally to Michael Jordan. But like that it was like a very interesting nod towards that. You know he knowingly didn't play like all apologies or something it was. It was a Pearl Jam. Song was a leap Pearl Jam. Song about what? It's like to be your older self but yeah I mean I. I've been thinking a lot about like people I think are saying like. Oh let's do the tiger one next. Let's do let's do Ali next. Of course you could do a lot of those things but it'd be hard pressed to find somebody who explains a decade the way that Jordan. Did you know it's funny? You say that for first of all the Pearl Jam Song which is called present tense on no code which is secretly the Best Pearl Jam Favorite Program Perfect Choice. The song choices throughout this entire series. Were just incredible. It's been written about in the Times. I really Jason and their whole team did just a genius job. I thought of matching era. If not Michael's own taste with those times and that music Also special shadow to the scene with Michael Dancing to the Kenny lattimore joint. That he got his leg. I guess that was very funny. But you know I read a really interesting interview with Bomani Jones last night in the New Yorker and Isaac Schoener was interviewing him about you know who Michael is and what he represents and his politics and his presence in the game and and Bomani so good at this really made the point about something that is actually missing from the film to a small extent. Which is that. Even though Michael dominated the ninety s he defined the eighties he had more in common with. Gordon Gecko and Bill Cosby than he did with Kurt Cobaine. He was not this. He was not a gen-x figure. He was not a person who was cynical or doubtful about systems. He was not a person who was adult by culture and too much information. You know. He didn't have the hallmarks of so many people who rose in the nineties. He was a slick clean cut. Super Smart Savvy ruthless competitor. That was his persona. And he defined Reagan's America in many ways and that is actually something that we did not get a lot of in the film. We saw his exploits as an athlete at that time but there was not as much attention paid to his power as a cultural figure coming up through that time. You know we hear from Michael. Eric Dyson we hear a bit about the again. The lack of supporting Gan in that race against Jesse Helms of North Carolina but there is an entire ten hour documentary to be made about Michael Jordan in the nineteen eighties. That we didn't really see and I don't think that's necessarily a missed opportunity. It just speaks to the his power and it speaks to what it means to round into yourself in your thirties in time in which even though he completely ran the nineties our minds. I mean he really. He was renting space in our heads. Chris as as fans of teams in the Eastern Conference. We talked about this before. Yeah we like this was not us be getting to spend time with a guy. We loved or right cheered for yeah right but he also was not a person who he's two generations removed for me. You know he's not he's not even close to a contemporary for me. He's somebody yeah he was. He was like one of my dad's asshole friends. You know. He just. He was very far away in terms of not. Just being relatable as a person but being relatable generational consciously his goals were just so different and I would encourage people to check out that Bonnie interview. I thought it would really laid out. Jordan's impact on culture and joins impact on the League but also the fact that the movie is a nineties movie and Jordan as an eighties figure that seemed to be the big takeaway for me. It's not even pushing back. But I will say that. I thought that the person who did articulate how he his cultural importance to me at least was really interesting was Obama at Obama comes in and is essentially like the Non Jordan Hammer of this story. I guess the three kind of most significant things at the end. Are you Jordan saying I would have come back then? There is a kind of CODA of talking about it's important. It's important and I think our Obama kind of articulates it in a rose tinted lenses. Like you know he he. He talks about bringing American culture to the world. This idea of Jordan kind of being this global ambassador for not just basketball but for American culture to me what he represents is i. I grew up at a time when you know. These guys were paid really well but sports was just sports and there was like kind of a ceiling in a box. You it was a way in which you could feel a part of a community and a city and your friends you can talk about sports and how teams were doing or whatever but at the end of the day that like sports were kind of like compartmentalized and I remember that era. Not only for the way in which sports became this huge global business. But how a lot of things that I loved like music writing. It became corporate concerns. It became like how do you make a big deal out of what you're doing and it's like well you're just playing music and he's like no no no. How do you like that was a time? When a lot of underground music became mainstream music and to some extent. I always felt like basketball. Wasn't necessarily underground but you had magic and bird but there are a lot of fucking basketball players that nobody had ever heard of showing like most Pepeli who are in their twenties. Now don't know who Adrian Dantley was Adrian. Daily was a pretty big deal to me. You know what I mean and I think of Jordan as the guy who brought like we can scale this man like we can make this bigger than anybody possibly ever thought and and that's only growing growing. That's what Lebron has gone on to do. Even more is like. Hey It'd be cool is if I play for three teams and the story keeps changing and I hit another region and I get you know. Another group of people can Buy Jersey in a different color scheme and all this stuff that I think ultimately while Jordan was a Samurai and obviously it was just like consumed with this idea of like. I need to win with these frigging blunts. Pale guys in Chicago instead of trade me to New York. Trade ME TO INDIANA trade to the Lakers. Whatever he was the guy who just was like basketball is way bigger than you guys are actually seeing it as him and stern just absolutely explode this sport. I think stern has one of the most significant quotes the whole film. He Kinda underplays actually Michel's importance in a perverse way. But he says near the end of the film that before. Michael came into the League the NBA was eighty countries today. It's in two hundred and twenty countries. That's not like two hundred twenty states. That's one hundred twenty countries that the sport is now legible to people around the world in Asia in in in Russia in Europe in Africa. It is everywhere and yeah I mean he's He. Is the person most responsible for that? It's a little hard to overstate a person's importance and I agree with you. That the using Obama as the hammer was was fascinating and I think that Obama is was put in a interesting position in this film because a wellness politics and his tenure as the leader of this country are are different. I would say than the way that Michael Jordan led you know. They don't they don't have a lot in common as authority figures and yet. Obama was Chicago resident as the film points out and a huge bulls fan and has so much admiration for people who have the will to win. And so it's interesting to make him that voice you know. There's nobody in the film who comes out. Maybe with the exception of Charles Barkley. And it's just like this guy was just a ruthless motherfucker. He was just mean tough and never gave up. I hated playing him. He ruined my career. You know like there's nobody who and people did bring some kind of a sense of grace to the project which I think is interesting given that Michael Rea frequently did not have grace in victory but that was the one thing that I thought was missing was one per and maybe this is because Michael's team didn't want in the film maybe it's because no one would say it. Maybe it's because no one saw it but no one said man fuck this guy so and he destroyed me and he destroyed my dream. What about my dream of winning the NBA title? What about my dream of being the best player in the League nobody could muster it even Isaiah Thomas who had this incredibly difficult and fraught relationship with Michael. He still was like well. They beat us. No I mean you could make an argument that Isaiah Thomas is thought of in the same air of Larry. Bird Magic Johnson. You know what I mean if Michael Come along. And they don't really go full he'll to stop him and also the team. Usa stuff happens and you have. It's really interesting. I mean. Obviously I did a lot to to ruin his own legacy you know going forward or a impact is own legacy at least yeah. I mean I don't know if there's a loss derrick mckey interview where he's just like fuck Michael Jordan. The one person who I thought was kind of a big loser of this film just because he didn't sit for an interview as Carl Malone call them alone on. The one hand in the film seems to be like a pretty decent person. You know that moment. He goes on the bus to congratulate the Bulls. Ninety eight after. They've won in their own building. I mean he's in Utah and obviously he and Michael our friends. They became friends on the dream. Team and Michael Alludes to that in the film to but you see that Malone conducts himself with kind of grace. But you don't hear from him. I mean he. He really was for lack of a better phrase. This is very oversimplified but I think it is true he really was the kind of Tim Duncan of his era. You know he had very very little to say publicly. He was not a controversial figure. He played in a small market and he was absolutely dominant. He was unstoppable in his very discreet and specific style of play at frequently. You would look up at the box score and he would have thirty two and fourteen and you'd be like how the fuck did that happen like how did and they'd be winning by eighteen. And you know he lives a very private life now like in Montana and to not hear from him. I thought was a little bit strange. Because he's really the only person he's really. I guess maybe with the exception of Shawn Kemp who also gets a little bit of short shrift because he was so dominant in that Sonics final series but there are so few guys who just didn't sit for this and so it sticks out and you mentioned Reggie and we heard from you and we heard from bird and magic and and Peyton and Barkley and everyone vanquished except for Carl. Carl was really the truly great player of his time. Who who doesn't sit for it and I kind of wanted to hear from him. He seemed maybe he was one of those guys who have been like fuck Michael. We'll never know. Yeah maybe maybe there's like kind of side chat between like Craig Yellow Brian Russell. Like all the guys who absolutely got nuked by him and they're just like talking on decide we can wrap it up here Sean. Any final thoughts me and I'm just really grateful to have have had this movie. I don't have any anxiety about whether or not it was not an active journalism. I thought it was just like brilliant. Filmmaking incredibly fun to watch I loved being back in that time period because it just reminded me of being a kid and completely stymied by sports just as I am today. So that's that's great then. I'm never going to be able to be happy with sports. And Michael Jordan is is not only singular but still almost incomprehensible to me. What about you know? I think like you said it was not only a replacement for sports that are absent. It was a reminder of a much different time in my relationship to sports and a much different. My expectations were a lot different. Both in terms of like Michael did not allow expectations. But also you know. My relationship to sports back then was a lot less about sports as like a battlefield. Where a lot of like cultural issues? Were having a tug of war where we talked about that. We talk about things like player movement. Now we talk about whether or not guys are worth their deals and whether or not you know everything is transactional and everything is kind of a narrative beyond what happens on the court and to me. Even though Michael had this huge impact off the legend was built on the court. The Legend is built on the shots in the legend is bill on those moments and the flu game ever the pizza game or whatever you. WanNa call it now and in some ways like those moments. Are they loom so large in my memory to see them? Reenacted almost was was pretty amazing. Chris before we go. Do you WANNA claim credit for poisoning. Michael AND THAT PIZZA IN UTAH. Was that you it was a it was a summer job me and my sometimes you know altitude sickness me and my buddies wanted to bring the pizza together. Shame on you Chris. Shame Yeah Sean. Thanks for talking to me about last dance. We'll be back with ringer. Nba Show tomorrow with mismatch. Thank you for listening.
Instant Reactions to The Last Dance Episodes 1-2 | The Ringer NBA Show
"Today's episode of the Ringer. Nba show on the ringer. Podcast network is brought to you by world central kitchen. Their relief team working across America to safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals in communities. That need support there now. Serving tens of thousands of meals daily in some of our biggest cities like New York and La. And they're launching initiatives across America to deliver fresh hot to hospitals and clinics fighting on the frontlines while keeping local restaurants in business as well. You can directly help the heroes in hospitals and clinics. Who are fighting for us and you can help. Keep your local restaurants alive. Go to the ringer dot com slash W. C. K. Donate please we're trying to raise two hundred and fifty thousand and if you have the means. It's an unbelievably great and useful. 'cause that helps hospital heroes emergency workers and local restaurants. Please give whatever you can. The money goes directly to world central kitchen and its charitable donation once again. That's the ringer dot com slash W. C. K. Hello and welcome to the show. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at the ringer. Dot Com and joining me. From Ithaca six feet tall. John GotTa see loud. The first of what will be many goose bumps on this podcast. Chris Ryan what's up man? We are here to talk about the first two episodes of the last dance on this special episode of the rare NBA. Show Sean and I have been talking for a little while about how to cover this. This ten part Michael Jordan documentary that's airing on ESPN and will eventually be a net flicks and We decided we recap these first two episodes and have a larger conversation about the documentary and Jordan's cultural and athletic impact. Obviously mostly because this is. This is what we got. This is sports right now. You can feel it on twitter. I would say you could feel it out on the streets but the only people out on the streets are just joggers. Walking by and face masks but to ask them. What are you doing this weekend? I think they would've said I can't wait to watch this Michael Jordan documentary. It feels like it's replacing both peak prime time. Tv Prestige TV for people and also sports. Sean how are you feeling in the days leading up to like the anticipation leading to this Jordan documentary? Well see it in two lights right. I see it as a person who is responsible for figuring out what to do in terms of covering sports and pop culture in my professional setting and in that respect it's immensely important and between the NFL draft at has been where most of our energy has gone over the last couple of weeks and where it will be the next six weeks. I imagine but as a person I have an immensely complicated relationship with Michael Jordan. I am in awe and wonderment. At his greatness I loved watching him play and he also he hurt me. I mean he really as a as a sincere Knicks Fan Chris you as a also in the Atlantic Division sixers fan. I think had your heartbroken especially I mean the the greatest moments in Knicks history in my lifetime are also the worst ones because they were at their very best when Jordan was also at his very best. So it's with some amount of frustration and resentment but also just abject excitement to be teleported back to that moment with the movie and and you know how I feel about movies Chris yes so. Let's do a little bit of background. I on the movie because it's directed by Jason it comes from ESPN and is being presented as in fashion. I think kind of like I. I wouldn't say that they are going as as high as like being like the OJ documentary like it doesn't seem like they're they're necessarily putting this forward for like awards consideration right now. I think that that could come. But it is obviously something that they've invested a ton of time and money into an are looking at as like the trophy of their of their non scripted. Docks of of the like the last couple of years pretty much since. Oj No question. Full disclosure the director of the series is Jason Hare the producer of the series. Is Mike Tolan to friends of the Ringer? You know? Jason directed the Andre The giant film. That rang films made for HBO. So just want to make sure that that's out front. But I think you're right. I think this is a miniseries event. That is very unusual for ESPN and it does come bearing the burden a little bit of Oj. This has been a movie that you. I'm sure listeners of this podcast and and others on the ringer network will know that bill had been wanting to do a Michael Jordan documentary for many years. The rumors of this footage from this final season It was understood that have been floating in the world and trying to find a way to compel the participants to get involved had been a long discussed in documentary circles and it is prestigious but it is also candy. You know it does. Actually I think the one of the things that makes it works so well. I'm sure we'll talk about it in depth but particularly the fact that it isn't weighed down with a lot of sociocultural heaviness is part of what makes it so fun. It has ideas it's interesting it's very well made and very repulsive and compelling but it doesn't feel like you've had a eight hundred page book drop to your doorstep it feels like returning to a two hundred page book the You love. Yeah and I would say that the thing that you get you immediately get as you get into this documentary within about fifteen minutes is the sense that they are gonNA painstakingly. Recreate this last season from the offseason on and I mean every few days they're going to do. They have footage from every single game every single practice every single trip to Paris. Every single off season event that they held And the way in which that they essentially recreate a season. I found to be actually so what I needed right now. It was such a a reward because I obviously missed the action of sports. I miss the daily routine of sports but I think what I also misses like somebody who was written about sports and talked about it for most of his life at this point is the narrative in the context around a season and the idea of following a team and while I'm obviously very familiar with what happened in the ninety seven ninety eight season. I obviously don't remember like them playing the Clippers on the road you know. And it's like that that level of detail and also the level of recall that the talking heads seem to have for every single nuanced moment. It's essentially a time machine so I think that and we'll be talking about the first two episodes which aired tonight and the first episode focuses on sort of the rise of Jordan his collegiate career as a sort of background to what's happening in that ninety seven ninety eight season and then in the second episode. There's a big focus on Scottie. Pippen and his role as rob into to Jordan's Batman. But I found something really fascinating about this. That probably isn't a surprise to people who follow basketball closely. And you have been as much a participant and observer of this as anybody in the last ten years where the the. The heavy interest in the sport of basketball has shifted. Not just from what happens on the court but to the machinations of the game are and this movie certainly has James Worthy talking about the nineteen eighty-two ncw championships. That's great stuff. You can find that on TV everyday. There is content like that constantly where you're seeing. Great players talk about great moments in their careers observing the greatness of other players and having that recall of play an amazing shot etcetera etcetera. The thing about this movie is there are long stretches of it in which it is primarily about Jerry Krause Jerry Reinsdorf and Phil Jackson's ability to acquire players draft players manage players Egos. That's the sort of stuff that is pretty uncommon. You're not likely to see nearly as much of that in those kinds of classical depictions of NBA history on channels owned by the you know owned by the League so I was captivated as much by the kind of free agency. Acquisition wheeler-dealer off court stuff. And that's before we've even gotten to the kind of economic rise of Jordan as a social figure. You know the the sneaker magnate and all this stuff that I'm sure it's going to be coming very soon on on this series so a really. Kinda has something for modern fans. It has something for fans who were there when they wanted it and it does have this extraordinary amount of detail. You're right and it's so crucial that they're telling it in this kind of dual structure where they're going minute by minute through the ninety seven ninety eight season and then using that as like a platform to do these flashbacks as you said to. North Carolina in the first episode into a lot of Scottie. Pippen's background in Arkansas. In the second episode. But it's I think really key that this doc granted a lot of it is based on this found footage that they had are this footage. That had been long rumored to exist this last season. But we're catching the end of the dynasty. You know this is a fall not necessarily rise. Obviously we know how it ends but I think it makes for so much more compelling viewing to tell these back stories and these flashbacks through the Lens of then it. All kind of was coming to an end than it is to be like. Here's how Michael Jordan brought together. Steve Curved Scottie Pippen Phil Jackson and they became the team of the nineties. I mean it's a really slick storytelling technique. Yeah one of the most resonant moments for me in the whole first two episodes was the the moment when Michael Jordan learns that Scottie. Pippen has demanded a trade request and Jordan is surrounded by reporters and reporter directly asked him. What's your response to that? And Jordan gives a non answer he says. I really don't have anything to say about that. But the look on his face is extraordinary and it is a reflection of what you're describing it is. This is the end. They know it's the end. Yeah and what an extraordinary circumstance in professional sports imagine if before the last warriors season Kevin Durant came forward and said this is my last season with the Warriors. We will win the title. Were all together one last time. I WANNA do together as opposed to well. You don't just focus on the season. I just want to see how this plays out. I'm really focused on right now playing with my teammates and focusing on improving as a player you know there was a there was a known quantity aspect to this being the end of what they were doing together publicly which is people are so unwilling to kind of share that pursuit with like we didn't get it this year in front of The New England patriots season. Yeah now even say that while you're -nology is really good. It doesn't necessarily speak to the level of which people were. There was like people who liked the sixers or the pacers or the Knicks. Or the Lakers. And then there were Michael Jordan fans and so you have understand that this kind of transcended NBA fandom in general the Patriots. So many people hated the Patriots. So many people didn't care about the Patriots. Because Tom Brady was under fantasy team they were Jaguars fans or something like that. But you're right to imagine Bella check doing a press conference where he was like. This will be Tom. Brady's last season for the New England patriots like we would like skip. Bayless would have just lit himself on fire on camera. It would have been. It would have been absurd. And you're right that it doesn't even speak to the power of Jordan which I don't know I mean can we talk a little bit about the specter of Jordan and I think especially specifically working professionally and increasingly. We're spending more and more time working with people who were either not alive for the height of Jordan's fame and success or people who have have had really tracked their NBA Fandom by the Lebron Generation. And the way that Lebron has completely overtaken the sport and redefined the sport and this uneasy divide for anybody who sort of I I would say. It's thirty four thirty five and under and then thirty four an up and that is really the you have to choose your choose your fighter in a sense between Jordan and Lebron like what that tension has been like you've added a thousands of MBA pieces. Like what do you make of The way that Jordan's depicted here does it kind of live up to how just overwhelming. He was as as a sports and cultural figure. I think that for as much as it speaks to a different time in the sport itself in terms of how it was played in terms of the way that a lot of teams orient themselves around one player to be like the kind of bear a lot of the wait for the offense what it really speaks to his Just what a sea change. This game has gone under psychologically and perception wise Lebron for as hostile as he may or may not be at certain times for as much as cutthroat he can be about rebuilding teams that he's honored demanding that certain personnel moves be made or not. I don't think it compares at all. It's at the stuff you see from Jordan. And how on Front Street? He was about the only thing that really mattered to him was not just winning but dominating and his pursuit of that was something that I think was like. I at times made basketball difficult to love for me in the nineties. Like you were saying like it didn't seem really up for debate. Whether or not they would win the title. Every year I really didn't. And it Kinda snuffed out a little bit of the passion or a little at least a little bit of the the surprise that can come sometimes come with sporting events you just knew that at the end of the day. This guy was going to put the opposing team in a sleeper. Hold I think you and I have a little bit of a different philosophy about this. When it comes to sports I tend to be a fan of dynasties I tend to be a fan of dominant figures. Not In terms of like my rooting interest per se. But sort of what they mean for the sport and whether they keep the sport on rails you could make the case obviously that burden magic set the NBA trajectory to become a hugely important sport in America and then Jordan essentially completed the alleyoop he his his six titles and his reign with the with the bowls. Set the league on a course that I don't think anybody's all coming in the seventies or sense that it could even it could even happen as a fan as as a kid really. It was demoralizing. I mean it was just straight up punishing. I I was just listening to the low post with Mike Breen earlier this week and Breen recalling the Charles Smith game and the way that those Bulls Games just terrorized my memory of the sport and yet I mean that's really where my phantom was fortified in a way now that those teams were big part of that and they were very. They were a significant team of the era. The sixers were not really as at that time. I feel there were some really good. Barkley teams obviously coming out of the irving the dock era of eighty-three of the peaks and eighty three. But I think it was more just like I loved basketball and more. I was very much a part of the cultural moment that was happening between the NBA. And the rise of HIP hop. And I think that this documentary does a nice job of playing specific hip hop for different eras of Jordan. Highlights playing Eric being rock'em for that first rookie season is really cool. But Jordan I loved Jordan more as the guy in the Mars blackmon commercials than I did as a basketball player. Who The sixers. Sometimes to get decapitated by your. We're GONNA have to see if the movie tries to delineate those two. Jordan's how how self aware. How conscious will it be because it does seem like it will be very? Varney garnished were definitely GonNa get some raw and complicated conversations about things that Jordan has done. I suspect they'll get into the Republicans. Buy Sneakers to controversies. I think that obviously the murder of his father is a tragic. Event is decision to leave the game and go play. Minor League Baseball. There's all kinds of controversy surrounding his career but he does have this almost like intellectual. Duality where he is the ultimate pitch man the ultimate you know your hero and your friend and simultaneously that thing that you were describing a few minutes ago which is just as vicious. Almost deliriously competitive person. Who would spare no expense to cut your throat and those two things don't wash their so in opposition to each other and he yet somehow manage to marry those two personas together to create kind of the ultimate famous person the ultimate athlete and I- Lebron for all of his extraordinary achievements. I love watching him play off him just like so many other people I feel like I have too much access to what's in his head. I feel like I'm too much access. Process. I always. I often think about the way. He got raked over the coals for just being friends with rival players. You know like having having a friendship with Carmelo and Chris Paul and how that seemed like somehow I don't know like a disparagement of the competitive nature of the nineteen nineties. Well there's also the I think a big thing that that is a theme of the last dance is the idea of Jordan almost taking it as a personal challenge to win with people. He has around him because at this point in the in the ninety seven ninety eight season in the summer before that season. Scotty Pippin Alexa Ankle surgery which they get into a lot in season two episode to any because he doesn't want to He waits to get his surgery because he doesn't WANNA fuck summer up basically so he wants to be able to enjoy the summer without having to Rehab and then he gets surgery closer to the start of the season so that he misses the first few months of the ninety seven. Ninety eight season obviously also requested trade somewhere in there and Jordan's forced to play with Ron Harper Luc. Longley Toni Kukoc Bill. Wennington Steve Kerr decent role players. But certainly nobody on par with Scottie. Pippen and I'm not gonNA say that Lebron would like shirk from that but like shy away from that challenge or something I mean. Lebron has played with some pretty crappy teams. But I think that when you get people who are like I think Lebron's incredible Lebron's one of the great probably the greatest athlete I've ever seen in my lifetime. I think he is better athletes than Jordan. I think he's does things on the court. I've never seen anybody do. Lebron did change teams several times. You know the Lebron definitely was like I need to be in a situation whether it's a different infrastructure or a different personnel grouping and I need to start the clock over again and it's not really I'm not saying one is better than the other but when you watch Jordan destroy guys in the second episode of this show And or and just screaming guys about about their behavior. It's kind of hard to imagine Lebron sticking out in Cleveland and like yelling at Booby Gibson for years. You know what I mean I do. I think it's not over the top to say that there is a clear generational. Divide here and specifically I noticed this so much in the modern day in the present day conversations that Jordan is having in this film he consistently to the idea of the team. And what's right for the team? And there's an interesting back and forth about The comments that Jerry Krause made about how players don't win titles and coaches don't win titles organizations do and then there's some sort of examination of what he actually meant when he said that. And whether he was misquoted or not but Jordan is is is he identifies. The players are the most important part of winning a title but then he also consistently returns to this almost like military attitude about the equality and the necessity of being together on a team. It contrasts with his personal view of his own dominance. But it's not something. It feels like a remnant of another era. It feels like there is. There is obviously been a lot of conversation the last five years about player empowerment and getting out of circumstances to better your own circumstance to get more money to get more opportunities to win to play with your friends all of that make sense in the in the present context and the way that NBA owners treat their players. This is a slightly different time but Michael Jordan's view seem so old fashioned and so you not conservative in the political sense but conservative cod like an intellectual way where he just couldn't imagine leaving the Bolsa go play for another team during that nineteen eighty four to nineteen ninety eight period and yet at times. They just really didn't take care of teammates. They didn't manage the team effectively. They do go out and acquire horace grant and Scottie Pippen and during the first run they do go out and acquire Dennis Rodman during the second run but also the way that Scotty is treated as a reflection on how Jordan's GonNa feel about the prospect of trying to win a title. It's it's a fascinating Jordan's samples is Oakley. And he's like I liked Oakley but bill cartwright was the right choice. Yeah that's the same thing in terms of analyzing the way that these teams are built in the personnel stuff. I mean I wish that okay. Got a chance to address that specific concern. I found interesting that he was interviewed here but also was not did not talk about getting traded away from those both teams and getting traded to those next teams which never got over the hump against those both teams. What a sliding doors moment for him. Yeah absolutely why? Don't we go through? I basically have some like categories that we can run through somewhat re watchable style and we can just group the two episodes together I wanted to talk a little bit about. I mean the thing that I really got from this. I went into this with like the same kind of cynicism or skepticism that I think any anybody age does which is like what. What else is there to learn about Michael Jordan? And what else is there to learn about ninety basketball and I think that this thing is a goose but machine like I start this. I started this this episode of the first episode and I was like well. I know what I'm doing for the next couple of weeks. I know I'm spending my time. I know what I'm going to be thinking about. I found that the hair on the back of my neck stood up multiple times. But I wanted to ask YOU SEAN. For the first episode. What was your big goose bump moment? I think it's probably the shot. Nine hundred eighty two shot and the recollection of the shot and the sense that the stakes of college basketball were so high. That was as the Falcons in so important. And doesn't that feel like a million years ago and it's just so incredible to watch worthy and ewing have instant recall for that for reversing the play to get the ball to Jordan for the shot. It had completely I completely forgotten to the Roy. Williams was an assistant coach on that team hanging there. And you have to be able to talk about. Mj and being so close to Mj. And I don't know what do you think about this idea that sometimes in the aftermath players opponents will over sell excellence of those opponents in an effort to seem more special that they're they're a period was more was more essential. Like do you think that somehow like legacy grows too big when you look back in a format like this. Yeah I mean I think. That's that's inevitable. I think whenever you're asking if I were to talk about one another. I think that we would necessarily inflate the importance of the two of us because of the after the act of recounting that story. You know what I mean. Greatest podcast of all time. Chris Ryan the One. I was sitting there and Chris was on wordpress paragraph. And then we'd cut away and then they mail room it would be like John. Paragraph was amazing No I think your point is well taken. But I don't I then encounter to that. I offer up the sixty thousand people at the new New Orleans Super Watching Patrick Ewing James Worthy and Michael Jordan playing national championship game. It's just you get the feeling and look like I'm all for. I think the college basketball like everybody else is essentially like an unfair sham but the importance of college basketball and people's lives back then and up through. I don't know like the the late. Ninety S is pretty. It's it can't be overstated like the the way in which that would capture captured the imagination. And what a run for college hoops back. Then we had the North Carolina teams in the early eighty s that Villanova team a couple years later the presence of Georgetown as both like a thing people cheer for but hated in. Unlv and then Michigan. I mean what a time you know what I mean. What a great fifteen twenty years. There was a huge part of my life. I've talked about it before I'm pods but I was it alumni hall eight ten times a year watching Saint John's Games. It was just a really big part of my preteen and teen teenage years and it does feel very far away and moments like this are interesting too. Because Jordan was I think he's a freshman in the eighty two season and was not a highly highly touted recruit. He was a good recruit but not a highly touted guy. And there's that incredible worthy moment when he talks about how he was better than Jordan for like two hours. You know the fact that this was a person who part of the myth making going on in this series is his dogged determined them to be the best and there is so such a kind of fascinating like bootstraps. Your mind is more powerful than your body aspect to the Jordan story and it really feels like it starts here like. Here's the moment when he's like you know what I'm GonNa take the shot. I'm the best player. I'm the most important person here and I'm GonNa make it and then I'm GonNa build my my legend through this moment and so much of this stuff in this film I can tell us some of it's going to be tragic and some of it's going to be frustrating but so much of it is just GonNa be like the extraordinary willpower of Michael Jordan to make things happen and this is the this is like the native incident. My Meigs moment for the first episode was The first playing of of serious. The Alan Parsons Project. Song which served as the the Bulls interim music and they play it as the Bulls are a going on court in Paris during an exhibition game. And and you know you WANNA watch preseason basketball. You see a lot of these exhibition. Games are just. They're really stupid. There's nobody is trying. You know what I mean like their Dick Players. Don't want to be there It showed to me first of all just that song. You're just like Oh yeah from North Carolina. Six six but it's also like the circus the rolling the travelling circus. That was the bulls in the late nineties. And you know like we went through. Probably a little bit more consciously with heels with the Miami Heat team when Lebron Wade in bossier together and the idea that every team every city the day visited became like the epicenter of sports for that but just to see just to see the international appeal of the team and to see them. I run out when they get the rings at the end of the at the end of the episode to get the and the music is playing in just like the theatricality of that team really came through. It's a great call the other thing you already kind of mentioned that Eropean Rocky. I ain't no joke is used in the early stages of Jordan's Jordan's NBA career. And that highlight reel is is mind blowing. Like watching him his athleticism against everybody else on the court is is so wild. And there's a couple of moments with Sydney moncrieff the box. Talking about what it was like to face Jordan in the NBA. In those early days and this kind of goes to that. Like how you talk about your time in the League and whether or not it was the most important time but moncrieff who is one of the most elite defenders in NBA history to time defensive player of the year and a good offensive player in his own. Right is helpless. This guy was the best like I was. Just the best thing I've ever seen like there was nothing I could do to stop him. Which you know. That's pretty powerful. You know that's like saying I don't know what to do with Kevin Durant like I don't know how to guard him you know that's it's just. It's it's very uncommon here here here. Players talk that way about their opposition. Yeah and just the idea that I love the specificity of identifying like Jordan being like the bucks always beat us and like they wanted me. You know they were losing and all the guys on the team or quitting you. See like Orlando Woolridge Rod Higgins and everybody and German was like we're not using like I'm losing again and that was the thing that he had that only like maybe eight ten people like him in. The history of sports really had that like. If I am here the expectation is that we win this game. It's Bill Simmons. I just wanted to make sure you're listening to podcast on spotify. Your say do it. I search for your favorite podcasts. On spotify is apple. Have a library of over. Seven hundred fifty thousand podcasts. At this point. So let's say you're searching for the Bill Simmons podcast Rewatch ables. Dave chappelle binge voted the ringer. Nfl show once you find them. Click on the follow. But that's as scribe then. Click on those letters near the top of the APP. That say podcasts. You can't miss it all the PODCASTS. You're following will pop up. Separated by episodes download shows wait. It gets better on spotify. You can adjust the speed of the pods to seven. Different speeds zero point five. Times is the slowest actually sound drunk. Zero Point Five looseness. Yeah you can get drunk bill. You can also do zero point eight times one point two times as favorite ever and sounds like that. Good Cup coffee. You can do one point five times. You could do two times and if you're completely insane you three times. Here's a bat. Sounds like six. Why would you do that? I think that's how we communicate with aliens anyway. Spotify ZAP connects directly to many of the best automobiles in the world. It even as carplay feature. That's pretty cool. It's really really good. Best it's free download spotify any device and you are good to go look. I don't WANNA option. You should actually be embarrassed if you're not listen to podcasts spotify. And if you don't believe me this drug bill and zero point five speed six. Tell drug bill the Bill Simmons. Podcast listen on spotify. What did you think about the way that they portrayed? Eighty four draft. I thought it was really interesting. It's cool to go back to it. It's obviously one of the great. What IFS OF NBA History? Not Mike. After it's nice it's kind of funny that even now some of the talking heads all the talking heads they talked to you. It's like you take Keam ten times out of ten. You know there's no there's no revisionist history about him going number one to Houston. Obviously the buoy over Jordan has been memorialized as one of the great mistakes IT NBA History. And just to have all that all those guys being like. Yeah well you can't take a six six guy that's crazy you know it's like that kind of guy can't be the best player on your team and so that that going back and watching market and be like well. This person's can't possibly make a difference. What did you think did you? Did you get a lot of good Rod Thorn Time In this episode? There was some solid Rod Thornton who you know frankly just lucked into Michael Jordan. I mean I don't know what else to say about that Tough look for Clyde Frazier saying a guard can't be the most dominant player on a team right at the advent of complete drexler. So why would you also need Michael Jordan? Yeah I you know. That's that's tough footnote in Clyde's career. Who's obviously hall of? Famer great player one of the great two guards of all time. But it's funny like that's an example of a story that unlike some of the other stories. We're going to see in this film. I know really well and I've read about a lot and you know bill in his book has written about it and it's it's been talked about over and over again and still I find. We're doing it with redraft. Ables I find the alternate histories of drafts. So compelling I actually could have just gone for an entire episode dedicated to that But then the other aspect of a two that I thought was fascinating was the presence of Larry Bird and magic and the way that they talked about. Mj and I suspect we'll get more of that. But you know that series between the Celtics and the Bulls. Yeah in you know where Jordan goes for a hundred and ten points over two nights is I definitely watch that and was a kid watching it and just remember having just just my brain melting watching Jordan go for sixty eight L? Did too yeah. Yeah Oh my God. Can we talk about Jordan the Golfer? Yeah let's say I would say that you know we. We can say our goose bump moments for episode two. I had mine was Jordan yelling at dudes in practice just because one of the things that gave me goosebumps. It was like we remember from a couple years ago. When Kobe Bryant cursed out the entire leakers team. It was like screaming at Mitch like like about. It was a waste of his time. It was almost uncanny how much mimicked what. Jordan was yelling at the players on the practice court in the in the second episode. So that was my goosebumps but was your was your goose bowman in the second episode. The the Celtics series. Yeah it was either that or yeah yeah it was probably that it was probably just bird genuflecting at the Jordan alter and in both in in present day and then also that locker interview where he's just like he's the best player in the League. He's most talented player in the league. Imagine Larry Bird saying that about you if you've only been in the league for six years and he is one of the five greatest players of all time at that point I don't know it's it's pretty. That's the first part of the movie that I have specific memories about. I'm thirty seven. So that's early nineties yet. And that's really what I have a consciousness as an NBA fan so it was exciting to be drawn back into that moment. Was something from the first episode. Where you did you like. I did not know that like you were like. This is a genuinely like new piece of information or a new piece of insight. I mean you made a note about this. But I just didn't realize that the Bulls in Nineteen eighty-five were just a bunch of drug lords. Like that was quite a revelation and George Jordan's teetotaler identity is kind of interesting because in this movie he shot you know with a glass of Hennessy. At his side. The whole time I mean Jordan. Now we know likes to smoke cigars. He likes to drink. He likes to likes to Taiwan on from time to time and to to think of him as this sort of innocent body temple. Teenager is hilarious. I you know there's still so much untold about early eighties and late Seventies. Nba Illegal. Ever hear about it yeah. I think that's read. It seemed like candidates the NBA was willing to get about it. I mean the the moment where the interviewer offscreen tells Michael Jordan in there was an article about the mid Eighties Bulls. That called them the Bulls traveling cocaine circus and Jordan just like cackles for like eight seconds and then goes I never read that article and like but then he tells that vivid story about knocking on the hotel room door actually. It wasn't as much a body as temple thing as much as he was like. If I get if if this gets place gets raided I get in as much trouble as all the guys doing coke. It was a business decision. Some ways it's a good point. You're right that is that's that was the calculus that he was doing As far as the stuff. I you alluded to this. But as far as the stuff I did not know from the second episode. It was definitely off-day golf with Danny Ainge. That's like you golfing with the hosts of pardon. My Take I think it's me before Sunday. Night podcast showdown could. Could you picture it I could? Yeah we're definitely putting up the same numbers so No Yeah of course it's Jordan as the ultra competitor. You don't really think of him as hanging out with the opposition very much but even in this context. It was obvious that they're they're playing for a lot of money at that. There was a Lotta Shit talking going on. And just the fact that Jordan getting dropped off and telling the rest of the van like telling age and whoever else is in the car tell Dj. I got something for him tomorrow night and then he did run. We'll awesome you. Think Jordan's a good hang. I think if you're like in with him it's elite. I think if you were just like on the outside of it and he doesn't necessarily know a respect you. I think you're in for a long night. I have to admit that Jordan would treat me more like Jerry Krause than Charles Oakley. You know what I mean. I do a lot of ball. Busting a Lotta. Like what are you doing here? He would take a lot of my money. You get me really fucked up getting really drunk. Speaking of one of my favorite parts of this second episode is Jerry Reinsdorf consistently going over the top Jerry Krause to like lightly dunk on him despite employing him for fifteen years. Yeah specifically resigning Phil Jackson to a one year contract. Which again is just that. The present day stuff is so interesting because the figures by that time or so fraught and they're so like in. The consciousness is famous people the stuff in the early eighties. They seem like little kids. But by the time you get ninety seven ninety eight and there's you know the was Jerry Krause kids wet. His stepdaughters wedding inflates. He invites everybody around the team including Tim. Floyd who is then the Iowa state coach to this wedding except Phil Jackson and Reinsdorf and this is a good segue because I wanted to ask about talking head. Mvp's REINSDORF says something. Basically like I would do anything not to get invited to a wedding. He's like guy later today to a wedding. I would be so excited but apparently this is a bad thing to not invite Phil Yeah REINSDORF comes through with a couple of times over the first two episodes of some very droll observations and as a real throwback to the pre hedge fund bro and the owner of like local business titan. Usually just absolutely loathed locally. You know like nobody was hated. Like the guy who had fifteen car lots like car dealerships and also owned the hockey team. Yeah he is a throwback. I mean he's still he still. They're still you know he and his family are still in charge but he he did keep that team together for the most part. I mean yeah did he. Didn't he didn't pull the mets trade. Tom Seaver you know like he didn't Trade Scottie Pippen. He didn't not resign. Phil Jackson to that contract I know that chicagoans have a complicated relationship with the REINSDORF's but I mean he did in effect put that team in a position to win six titles in nine years. And frankly they you know they probably wouldn't have one nine and nine years as as bill in Phila- pointed last week because of just how difficult it would have been. Keep that machine rolling for all that time but I mean the other thing that's cool about it is obviously people like Mike Wilpon who is from Chicago and who has a famed relationship and isn't ESPN figure but you also get talented. Her and Sam Smith and you get this generation of newspaper writers who were there then. Yes and Smith used I mean. There's a great shot of Jackson talking to Pete Vesey some bureau of him doing like what was obviously like a an NBC NBA interview. I guess 'cause that's Vesey used to come on and do kind of interstitial on the NBC coverage but you know the intimacy that these beat writers had and Sam Smith obviously knows what the pippen perspective pippen deals would have been like he. He's so keyed in and you know krause like talk. I mean one of the big things like it's a real shame. That krause isn't in this dock. They didn't live to be in this doc. Put in a weird way. His presence in it is kind of this interesting kind of ghosts in the machine you know. I think you can't overlook the fact that people were so much more open about talking to the media at this at twenty five thirty years ago like there's just there was so much more access and it's not that level of access where you could sit in the locker room for forty five minutes and then go to a two hour dinner necessarily with players like in the seventies but even in the late nineties. I mean Sam Smith could pick up the phone and call any of these people. Yeah and ask them what was going on. I mean that's just that's just not something that happens now and there was a level of respect and openness around the time that was really powerful and it also just makes for great gossip more information. They had more fun. Shit that tell you? Yeah I love to. I Love Aldridge was good too in these. Talking about Scottie. Pippen's contract. Tell me tell me who you're talking. Head MVP was for the first episode. I'm for for me. I think Corny and Homespun as it is. What's going to be Roy Williams? He's really great. He turns in a great performance. His Line Michael Jordan's the only player that could ever turn it on and off any never frigging turned it off. I was James Worthy saying I was better than Michael Jordan for two weeks. That's that's probably my pick that that that's the that's the best moment in the first episode that Whole Carolina run. Yeah it's great. It's also cool to imagine how he wanted to stay. You hear this a lot from guys like Rasheed. Wallace wanted stay at Carolina. Like all these guys who were like. This is the most fun I'm ever going to have in my life is being a college like this. Pretty Good Odeen Smith to who I think similarly to the NBA players of this period is like as time goes on memorialize as this important figure. But you don't really like to see or truly here about who he is or what he did. And you know this. Is this him kind of at the at the height of his greatness to yeah For episode two talking heads I had I had age I also had Steve Kerr and somewhat Kerr. When they're doing the interviews on the court with Kerr. When he was a player you can start to hear the flying coach. Steve Kerr kind of emerging there. He has that incredible quote. Or He's like what is the the key don't have and he's like well we have. Michael you know. And it's very wry dry but completely accurate delivery and he looks virtually exactly the same Steve Kerr today from nineteen ninety eight and yeah I that jumped out at me to occur in the present day. It's funny to see him. Kitted out in the warriors gear because that is as identity but he was a bull in my mind more than a spur more than any other team played for where you went to Arizona. Right more than Arizona's news a big he played with Sean Elliott. I think that's right. But he was. He was always a bowl in my memory for years and years and years until the last five years What about any other talking heads from episode to get Danny aged dangerous? Obviously really good yummy. I mentioned the birth stuff. I just think bird and then you know I was recently re watching the documentary about the first Dream Team on TV. And there's a lot of footage in that movie about the relationship between Magic and Michael and how competitive magic was with Michael at that time because magic had recently been diagnosed with HIV and he was sort of exiting his fate of the magic era of the NBA. He was still dominant player but he wasn't at the. He wasn't at the at his apex and the very sparing amount of time that he gets in this the first two episodes of this series. He's very direct. He's just like Michael as the best like Michael was the best and I hope that we get a little bit of the magic who is a little bit unwilling to see His throne in this documentary too. Because they're they're big brother little little brother relationship and the way that magic would use his kind of wiliness as a way to talk down to Michael. During that Dream Team Era I could because he michael hadn't really one very much at that time and that is what magic is hoarding over him. I think it'd be fun to see some of that stuff. Yeah it would also be fun to see any of Bill Clinton's scout breakdowns of other central. Arkansas players yes. Should we talk about the two presidents that appear in this film could get good full event when they got Brian Myself? I'm on my seventh email of Tony Dalton from better call Saul on the watch. And it's like Bill Clinton Barack Obama doing like five seconds on Scotty Pippin and Michael Jordan. It's just amazing. I mean and that's the other thing too. Is that that ninety. Eight team and those bowls teams found ways to intersect with culture. So profoundly you know Barack Obama saying he couldn't afford tickets to go see those bowls teams when he was broke in. The eighties is fascinating. You Know Clinton talking about watching Scotty Pippin play high high school college and Central. Arkansas College. I mean that's just remarkable. Bill Clinton sounds like a guy calling into sports radio on Friday night. Lights that Scottie Pippen. He's got some Good inside outside moves but also reflecting on his personality and talking about how shy he was. And I don't know everything does feels very intimate in this series. You know it really. Does it. Feels like the people know each other to this day. And that's just not that common on these these documentaries which which as much as I love just firing up the NFL network and watching a a two hour segment about Brett farve in Green Bay. It doesn't always feel it feels stage-managed and so far this just doesn't feel that stage managed to me and obviously people are performing in a way when the camera turns on but feels like they really know each other and they're really telling stories. It's it's it's true really is as a story about Jordan. It's it's like the story about a generation of sports sports fans to what what do you. What do you WANNA see? Yeah going forward I think in terms of the flashback stuff. I'm certainly I'm interested in more moments that tell stories behind the stories that that get into the. What are the other golfing with Danny ainge moments during some famous playoff sequences and I? I think that it's that it's the getting the details behind the iconic moments. It'll be interesting to see if I I suspect that as the series goes on we'll spend more time in that last season and less time in the past because they really did speed through a lot of the first ten years of Michael Jordan's playing career and we may go back even further. Maybe maybe we'll go into more about his parents and get to the the death of his father. Maybe we'll talk more about his family. But I'm I'm curious to see like you said a deeper analysis of what was going on in that in that season because that is like the draw. That's the elevator pitch for the movie. That's what makes it different. I think from some of this this this other kind of historical sports archival documentary that we see all the time. But I don't know I mean it's off to an amazing start. Yeah I was just the last thing I was going to ask. You is if you had any favorite. We've covered a lot of it. But if you have any favorite Jordan talking head moments because I do find him to be a very interesting narrator more more than I thought you know. Obviously his public appearances have been you know like the hall of Fame Induction Speech. The gives where he's like. You know just absolutely laying waste to people but also crying his move very moving eulogy for Kobe Bryant but I find I find him to be quite funny And also still carrying the burden of that competitive streak that he has hundred percent. It's fascinating that he in this episode just still talks very frankly about Scotty and he says simultaneously. He's the best team I ever had. And I think you can say without a doubt that Michael does not win six titles without Scotty but also that he still holds it against him that he waited to get surgery and then he describes it as selfish and only thinking about himself and he has this kind of old school mentality about that. I thought was so interesting that he's just not willing to give give that up absolutely. Yeah I mean I I'm I'm I'm really looking forward to the rest of this and I'm really excited also to see. Were recording this on Friday. So we don't know how like twitter is going to react to it but if like reactions to like random rapper going on I g live or any indication. I think that people like a lot of people are going to pay attention and participate in the conversation around. This which I think should be pretty neat. We need to get a mean going of Jordan during that cackling moment when he gets read the quote about the cocaine circus with the Hennessy behind him like that screen shot him like back laughing. Yeah with the with the cocktail is. That's that's the next great meme. Yeah Sean thank you so much for joining me. I'm sure Casey and Verna will be talking about the Jordan. Doc on the mismatch 'em we have plenty of stuff say on bill and Ryan's pods so it's it's really Jordan all the time until we get some real basketball thanks buddy.
Full Show (LeBron and Lakers fans, AB trade drama, Rajon Rondo, Kyler Murray)
"Welcome to the undisputed podcast. I'm your host, Jenny Taft. This podcast is the full show. From today's episode of undisputed from start to finish. They've got a busy slate. So skip Shannon. Let's get to it. Good morning. Welcome disputed. We are live from Los Angeles. I'm Jenny Taft. Here was skip Bayless, Shannon, jar happy Friday, guys. Boy, I missed the gold mask is it gone forever. To is it retired. Did you burn it? I don't know. Math on a minute restriction, really. We'll cover tied. No. Okay it. Oh back the backs. It's not gonna come out. Really interesting. On cowboy load management as long as I don't have to talk about David Irving today. I'm okay. Roman Coppola here. Near a lot to get you on today's show like this. Does anyone want and Tonio Brown on their team? And did Rajon Rondo send a message to this guy? Start willow Braun he reached a huge milestone on Wednesday night when he passed Michael Jordan for fourth place on the all-time scoring list. But Bill plash the LA times wrote the Laker fans had a lukewarm response to the moment. He also says a combo of LeBron's quote failure to defense make free throws and display any sort of leadership has drawn the public's I r- in addition, LeBron's newest milestone would have played better in Cleveland since he scored so few of his career points in LA, so Shannon. Why haven't Laker fans embrace LeBron? Let's start by saying that Bill Plaski. I don't know him, you know, him better than I do. I know Koby guy. He they don't do. This don't do that. You know, that that I do cover the Lakers for a long, they Koby gap. Then probably a shack guy. And a will guy coast off Corinne? Golly. Liberal by LeBron was the enemy of the Lakers for very very long time. He was yes. He scale couple of Brown was the enemy of the Lakers. I don't think I don't remember that. I just don't you? Let me make my art. Go ahead. I really appreciate that. Thank you. But when you look at this. There are some fans that love the Lakers there, some Koby fans LeBron comes, and I said this in the beginning some fans will never ever fully embrace LeBron because they were byu that is turning on Koby. And the one thing that could always hold over the Braun if that five to three Kobe has five championships LeBron has three LeBron wins more championships than what are you hold? Lebron has more MVP's more more regularly than MVP's more finals MVP's. He will have more points. He has more rebounds more insists he has more all MBA teams. So what then will you be able to hold? Right now, the defending. Vacant say, well, at least Koby has this Kobe has spent every minute taken every shot every file everything that he's ever accomplished in that uniform LeBron seven years in Cleveland, four years of Miami for years in Cleveland. So fifteen of his years was spent elsewhere. Than LA. Kobe spent twenty years in one uniform which numbers, and he was fabulous. And that's okay. I don't and some people look if LeBron accomplishes something it will diminish Koby, it won't nothing Koby has done can ever been to be be diminished because etched in stone. Whatever LeBron does LeBron does he with a championship? You should be happy. And I get it skip. I get it. Most people don't realize that people let you really really all. They remember is Corrine play for the Lakers, but he played with the bugs most people don't remember that shattered point point shack is mainly remembered for being a Laker. But if I four years was an Orlando. Okay. So with that on will win for the Sixers go ahead. All the paint young a lot of Antion grades played elsewhere. But Koby is you need call the plays such a long time. And until Dirk broke his record. He had the longest tenure with one franchise twenty years. Lebron is only spent one year and another things get this season has not gone light a lot of Laker fan. Even they were almost see what he does Hetty gone to the playoffs. Had they won had. He not gotten injured. Maybe the recession would have been a little more warm. Maybe not. Yeah. A lot of this playbay wells camp. If that you remember these billboards went up, LeBron overlooking the king, but they made it seem mural EROs, they make it might LeBron was driving around, man. There's a mural of Kobe jumps out of his car. Start painting over and then put a mural of himself up. Someone did that they they hold Bron response. Able because it's a picture of him. And they look at him an into Looper you wanted in here. You're not real not a real relate Laker because you're only gonna spend short amount of time with the Lakers. So skip I am not surprised that this you, and I we talked about this earlier because when they started vandalizing the murals, and then I guess they moved one of them up a little higher because I was down in area town and I saw play place on the billboard. So someone would have to climb up the high. He's happy and be down there. I just have to be willing to see I wanted to take your stocking. Lebron I just wanted to see the the Lakers used a championship. They'll lose used to winning and for the last couple of years. They haven't had a championship. They haven't even been in the playoffs. And they thought LeBron was going to change their fortunes, and he has not so. I I'm not so sure yet with some of the fans if that will ever change the blind can win championships. But they're going to be those that hold out that will still say, this is Kobe team this Kobe style Nobis bedroom. Lebron brought I think LeBron understood that when he came here is heart difference. Get it even when he went to Miami. It was still ways t- the problem with the best player. Lebron have no county. They way county. I got it. Not Bryan county. There wasn't a rich. Deep basketball legacy in Miami. When he got there at one had one. But when you think of the Lakers and the history behind it some of the greatest. Yeah. Been there have played in that uniform and in order for you to fully be embraced if you wanna be Laker legend. Yeah. You gotta win titles. Well, we gotta win isn't simply that's why I don't care who you are. You gotta win. Just look at the top. Ten in scoring start with Kareem and call Malone did play here for. Yeah. He second Koby, obviously third next on the list wilt as is six and shack aid. So so it's just loaded with Laker Brown. We haven't even mentioned the one maybe the greatest Laker Magic Johnson. So he's in there also homegrown. Okay homegrown. But LeBron actually had magic on his side. Because magic did choose LeBron. I mean, he went to LeBron actually went to his house earn on the door driveway. I our early. Hey, so did not LeBron have that going forward when he came here the greatest Laker arguably, I mean, you can argue between Kobe and magic I take magic over Corinne Boyd. Okay. And you can you know, what that's a good point. I'm just a big magic fan. But again, one of the greatest Lakers knocked on LeBron. I will agree with that. Okay. So tha you done so to me LeBron made too early glaring miscalculate. Here. Number one. He told Naji he wanted playmakers instead of shooters that was just a bad idea. And I went back and looked at all the quotes. And he was LeBron was very defensive when the media kept asking him early before the season started. You don't want more shooters. No, I want. So he was adamant about that. And then number two, I truly believe that deep down. Lebron is so beloved nationally if not internationally the he thought he would step into Hollywood. And that Hollywood say, thank you, welcome. We love you and embrace you and it's not going to happen immediately. Because I do know this town, I know this town 'cause I worked here for three years right out of college. And I covered the Lakers, and I covered the Rams, and I covered the dodgers. So I kinda get the heartbeat of the city, which is what Bill Plaski really knows what you wrote about in this piece, and he has been a columnist at the Los Angeles Times for which I worked for he's been the columnist for twenty plus years, but the point is fans are different here. There's an. Arrogance about the fans here, they are don't tell us. We don't care. What you what you did before? Do it for us. You do for us. We'll love you. But it's all about performing in Hollywood. And and when the lights go on now now you're starting over now performed for us. Do you? Remember the opening early press sessions he had before the season started. Remember, he wore a number his number six jersey in a pre this is a preseason workout and one of the LA reporters dared to ask him. Why did you wear six and he's like? Don't you know, who I am? I I've worn six for years in practice right in the quote was after that. I'm starting to figure out a lot of you guys are just not recognizing who I am. No, they're not. They don't care who you are intil you do it for them. So that's the attitude of a lot of people who were sitting courtside and Bill Plaski sort of differentiated between the heartbeat is city is the non Hollywood people. But but again, I think Hollywood and not Hollywood have not bought into LeBron because they're just waiting for him to do it for them. I think the hardcore fans. Yes, the Hollywood fan skip they give him much love and appreciation because they recognize greatness and say the regular pants don't recognize his greatness, just cozy for the record. I spoke yesterday to a very prominent national reporter who's been many Laker games this year, including the one on Wednesday night. And he said that he he's always kibitzing with a lot of the people around courtside. And he told me yesterday that a lot of those Hollywood people are out on LeBron because they're now convinced as I feared from the start. They think that he came here more for Hollywood than for the Lakers that that he didn't come here with winning as the number one priority now maybe next year, they'll change if LA for. I don't know shacks. No shock your milk when he came in. What did he start doing movies? Okay. What Tarim come here? And what it start doing on the basketball? Okay. Hold on. I mean shack became the most dominating offense and force. I have ever witnessed on a basketball. We got here in ninety six. Guess it was. Yeah. Didn't win ninety six then when they wind in eight. But when they started. Okay. Okay. What Corinne okay what Kareem doing when he got here came here before he even entered his prime la- blonde is in your sixteen. So so it's like, what are you got left for you making my point my said fifteen okay before he got here not gonna buy in. They don't care. How old you are? What you've done before they need you to do it for the. Yes, fluently. So I'm gonna read a quick paragraph from Bill plaschke's column even six months into his first season as a Laker James isn't yet a Laker. And I think that's a fair assess Willie ever be if he wins will he ever embrace. They embrace Koby a magic or Shang. What if they win the next championships? Yeah. Yeah. He'll get up in their next line. The fans don't consider him family. Obviously his team doesn't consider him their leader. Will there's been a disconnect between layers and LeBron right? His lack of physical and emotional investment. In the basketball portion of his great, Los Angeles. Venture is paying the sad dividends of a man who on the court appears very much distant and alone. I do think that's a fair assessment. And I didn't is that yesterday because I thought it would be kind of like dirty pool low blow, but plash key points out that when LeBron went to the bench to celebrate he again separated himself from the team there were three seats between LeBron his next teammate during that time out after he passed joy, if you don't mind me, he dammed up everybody that was on the more. He did any. Hi fi people. I got it to get him right between them. I don't know just way. Lebron is it seems like it's me. And then when he got here and impart because he he's way better than they are. But again, that's not leadership. Are you moving forward? I'm gonna make sure I watched when someone have historic moment gonna make sure that they're sitting in one of their teammates left. Mr. Plaski would LeBron to do. But I'm gonna make sure moving forward because I'm sure they're gonna beat them historical accomplishments, their baseball, basketball and football. And I'm going to see. Well, unfortunately, the next storm accomplishment involves one Kobe Bryant. Right. So if you pass Koby maybe better pass him on the road. Why I don't know. What I don't know. I'm just not sure how that's going to go depending on how. Now, you miss doing? You make my point no matter how many championships he wins. Coby fans will never embrace. Lebron? You're making my point. I'm not there up pathetic. I soar of a basketball team when everybody expected great. I it if LeBron with two titles K, you co these the majority of Koby fans will not imply, well, I don't know about that. Depending on listen one title can like cure ills of the world and deal with byu skip even though the. A lot of these guys be at Corinne bid a shot. They played a lot of their career here in L. Right. Lebron is gonna play the majority of career elsewhere, right? Final line. I'm gonna read from plash. While LeBron stat line remains strong as you always point out his failure to play defense. Make free throws in display any sort of leadership has drawn the public's I r- in Los Angeles, not nationally. But in Los Angeles. I hate to say it. But I sit here day after day, and it sounds like I'm cheap shotting piling on. But I have been disappointed in lot LeBron because this is all beneath his dignity, but that's all true. True. True. True true. And the fans here are maybe Kobe, but they're waiting and seeing enough that when they're not stupid now, there are sophisticated basketball fans, they've seen great basket. When Kobe demanded a trade from the Lakers would that leadership when Kobe refused to shoot the ball in a game seven against Phoenix game that lead us. But did he redeem you keep fan he redeemed himself? Are you going to give opportunity for Dame? I am next year. Okay. He's gonna be in year seven does that matter year eight, but you see what you see what you're saying? You see what you're saying? At the point in time. You said I ask you a simple question whether leadership win Koby adds more trae a win refused to take a shot that leadership when he demanded shot. Going leaves you asking I'm not the biggest Kobe fan never have been. I like him personally off the. Court. But there are a lot of instances on the court that I got no use for the powder being refused to shoot game against Phoenix. I don't like it. He ran Shak outta town. That lead us, you know, I never considered Kobe the strongest leader until finally they had to start over. He got humbled in got knocked on his behind by all this because they this the playoffs. Right. And then they went out ingloriously in first round gets Phoenix and Phoenix straight years, and then they got soul and that was a magic move. For like three year stretch. Andrew bynum was not a slouch that makes Andrew bible. I Bohm liked him. He went out and whatever happened by that. But my thing is is that the problem that I have with some people if that beholding in remember, I'm gonna finish. He went to the eagle, Colorado. ES co right, right? And somehow he came out of that in a weird way better off than he was before. Some people started be sympathetic to his plight in it seemed like it re-ingratiate himself with some fans because he came out of it on the rise as a basketball. Am I right? Yeah. And then they end up winning two championships. Right. And they ended up losing because he went back and forth. Linden detroit. I would agree with Ben again. I'm not validating. What he did in eagle? I'm not saying that I'm just saying he somehow came out of that on the bright side going upward, right, right? When I thought his career was teetering because of that he came out of it in the irony was, even he even got a better sneaker deal out of the remember blue in the deed of going tonight. He did he went to Nike lost his Adidas deal. But my can skip is for me. The problem that I have is that we hold LeBron to a. Different standard than we hold any other. I'm just talking about the NBA. I'm not talking about NBA player the different than any of any other superstar in any other sport. Yeah. 'cause you see their entire face all the time. They don't have on pants. They don't have on a helmet baseball players when they're banning. They have an ailment, and you can't see them. And then then when in the outfield unless they catch a file ball ball company them the basketball court is so confide you see all the time do, but LeBron is the only guy is that we hold him whenever he does something wrong. Even if he did fifteen things, right? We always go back to the wrong that he did will always go back to that. Well, you keep saying he's the best player on the planet. So we're gonna get graded by the highest curve. My right. But when Kobe was the best player on the planet. Do we grave? Great him on that Kurt was he considered that? I guess it was maybe for what about George. Did. We go Drake just wanna know one. Thank you covered him. And you love him. You might not be the biggest Kobe fan or the biggest LeBron James fan, but you are. The president of the Michael Jordan fan clue. Did you great him on the curb that you gray? Lebron a simple or simple. Yes. I don't need you. Explain a simple. No or simple. Yes. When did he ever do anything wrong? So he will say it. A win was ask yourself that very questions when I don't know. Okay. Are you talking about often is talking about nothing? I'm going to go off the court. I got lot. I I'm not I'm not going on core asking. But see there you go use that he never ever did anything wrong. Even on the court sits in Owen, the files with six MVP. That's pretty hard to top. How many years did he die? Well, I only count through Chicago. Okay. So so, okay. We want to disregard even though we want to disregard a watching it took three years off and came back. And he was just aside. How how who is that? Hey, chose to do that. All right, okay. With that. So what about the other year that he didn't make the finals? In Chicago is Chicago any other place that he happened to be in the NBA? We'll see hadn't been forced to take two years off in the middle of that run. He would have gone to eight straight with eight straight. And there's no guarantee of that. I'm just saying. Tonight in taking by usually what you did there who was going to. So who's gonna beat him? So who forced him out of the finals from eighty one from eighty four tonight who forced him out of those finals? Well, all time great teams Showtime lane. Boy, Pizzonia Larry bird's at lake you. You told me if LeBron James and the best player on the planet. Yeah. He should be able to take down Golden State. He should have been able to take down the San Antonio Spurs. But when Michael joined the best player on the planet. Couldn't take down the big three good take down the bad boy pistons now heating appraise on them. Somebody is changing the subject off what's at hand. Because we're still talking about LeBron year sixteen trying to become Hollywood's Laker, right? Let's skip. He may never do that. Because they look at him that you deliver becoming fifteen years. Let's just say for the sake of argument's give he plays twenty years. Only five of his years would have been only what bar. Here's what a bit by fixings eighty nine until five years would have been with the Laker. Yeah. Dream how much long career with the of she's loaded Koby sodas shack sewed it a who came here magin. So you talk when you look at it in that came banks, some people will never ever embrace LeBron like they did the past great Lakers. Lebron could it onto the Sixers? He his onto the rockets the things when you free agent, and you get to choose he chose to come to the Laker. There's some era that's on his part of I got this. I can do this. And you don't got that. Because that is too big for you yet up the whole objective about being a free agent is about having choices. I thought when you got draft. You don't get the choice. Well, sometimes would I tell you money can't buy Appier if you choose Hollywood, and he was gonna get the same. Wherever he win. No. He was not because he wasn't gonna have direct access to Hollywood. So that he could be making deals on a daily nightly basis. Right for me. I don't believe. I mean, maybe there are some situations will brawn James shows up with a maverick Carter or or Randy. Maybe those are situated if you're in Philly. You can't do the to change. You can't be his what did you call? It. An are. Yeah. Okay. You can't do that. You're not gonna have it's not acceptable to you can't roll out of bed and Brent wooden and hop in the back of the car and be driven into Hollywood and fifteen minutes. Okay. Get but what about we are you talking about that? We're talking about basketball. Okay. He's still give it to a lot to prove. And you can't really blame the fans for not embracing the ultimate was the first facing of the first mural when it was splashed across that. I did not have anything to do was it, and this was probably born of Koby love. But it was we don't. Want you three and six in the fine. Yes. No king. Okay. Well, that's that's the attitude. You're going to have to defeat. There's it's harsh. This is this close. Okay. This guy got right now. He has no closer. Yes. He right now he has been exposed for all of what? Well, I just read it when his them eight native exposed no defense free throws leadership is you know, he's gonna have to have a few more chapters duty role defaced of mural was together do need it. I I'm fine admitted on he's still I admit it. Yeah. I. Scale believing all the tape. Okay. Lot of drama around this guy and Tokyo crown is he actually gonna get traded today. We'll discuss next. 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More than three million people already know, it feels good to fear less simply safe. So go with the only home security, I trust simply safe by going to SimpliSafe dot com slash undisputed. Go today and get free shipping and a sixty day money back guarantee that SimpliSafe dot com slash undisputed for the home security, I trust SimpliSafe dot com slash undisputed. Now back to the show. Tonio ground is still a Steeler for now. There were reports overnight that he was headed to buffalo, but this morning the bills GM said they've moved on from a potential deal. And then there were other reports that Abe did not want to be traded to buffalo. So the Steelers wanna move Brown today. But now there are reportedly only a few options left on the table, so Shannon. How will this one play out? I didn't see and I don't see someone giving a giving up a first round for Antonio Brown, especially skilled because it's gonna require you to give up compensation and then reward him with compensation because he's made it abundantly clear agents roads and houses made it abundantly clear. He wants guaranteed money. He wants to rework that contract. Yeah. Everybody knows that the Steelers cannot bring Antonio Brown back into that locker room. They know that if I know that I know you have to discard something I'm not going to give you the. Price that you're asking for you crossed living Tennessee now, I know you got to move 'cause country, and you got you're gonna move into say a thousand square foot apartment, but you had a home when you're in Tennessee, you had a grand piano, you had a big old big oil ten by ten by ten 'cause I got will head to leave it in Atlanta, though. But anyway, I get what you really you leave it. I know that. You won't be paying for the grand piano. You won't ten thousand put a bed. I'm not giving you that you got a thousand square foot apartment, you take that with you this what I would do for you skip or you can take it with you and try to sell it. What you get out there? Now, you gonna make the mistake because there's a draft coming up skip why can get players, and I don't have to give up any compensation, and they don't have the bad habits that in Tokyo Brown. So with that being thirty one years of thirty one which is not always get Antonio Bagri got by four or five great remaining, anybody still thirty one. But go ahead. He's thirty one. But with that for me to rate the raiders have the compensation skip, I didn't know this. They got four picks in the top thirty five and Gruden raved about his workout. I've never seen guy. We'll go up big for me. I read yesterday the raiders are out out. Now when the when the. When the price falls down a little bit. So right now, I think the values is to heighten that price to come down. But in Tony Brown is done himself. No favors did himself. No favors. Skip steelers. Look, I think the Steelers have done some things wrong organizationally. I think they've been able been robbers burger to feel emboldened to say into do things that is rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, maybe Antonio Brown and the only one that's come out and verbally set it. Yeah. But in Tokyo Brown has handled this awful and teams are looking at this. How many teams have the structure organizationally locker room ride wise to be able to handle a situation. Like this can't be called one hundred four balls for thirteen hundred yards and fifteen touchdown. And he's unhappy. How do you make him happy any may twenty million dollars last year? So how do you make him happy? Skip. Some team is going to have to ask themselves those questions, and yeah. But for a first round pick in round pick third round the fourth round come over here in Tony. Okay. So I'm on record as saying you would have to give me round pick. Give me a third round pick to take in his baggage and his contract off your hands because that contract is gonna count twenty two point one against your cap next year. But to your point you just begun with him because remember his little posted. He did he was on the elliptical machine when he when he Kristen himself, Mr. big challenge. I remember this do and the line was if your team got guaranteed money, tailed them. Call me aby can't do. No, more unguaranteed. So he's he wants up front restructure guaranteed money. You knew the contract that you signed with Pittsburgh. You knew your to your three years ago. Had no guaranteed money in it. And by the way, it has three years left on it three three years left. So now, all I know is what I read in here. Right. So I heard we we even debated. We did our topic one day about Arizona Cuyler an AB they're out then we talk about Gruden. We just talked about their out. Then a lot of people going off Aaron Rodgers needs him an AB right there out. These all reportedly out buffalo was the big talk last night. And now they say they're out titans are out the Redskins are out. The jets are out the market will dictate your fate. And it's shrinking, and it's showing you that you're worth on the open market is not what you declare. It is on your market on your internal. That land could make Julio generals available and the going rate in the first round pick. Yeah. Houston Texas, make de hot de'andre Hopkins available the going rate of the first round. And you know, what my boys gave from Aren Cooper. They gave a first round pick people mar played unbelievable once he got Dallas. Yeah. He was straight up garbage in Oakland. That's there's not not not early. But the last year was not good. Not good at. All. Right. Even though we have some good years. It was the consistency that concern people. All right it. He got a first round pick on a first round picking. It was highly. Controversial. But he got it. So that leaves the locker room that you're talking about that could. Could bring him in and sort of make him part of the whole. And that is the patriot locker we've seen them try this before so we saw they brought in derail rebus on a one year shot. Remember this in twenty fourteen and they gave him for the year twelve million dollars just a one year deal. Right. So would agree to just tear up the last three years and say, I'll do a make good one year. And you give me fifteen million or whatever to play for a ring with Tom Brady. I don't think he would do what he had been ver- right based on your deal because he got no guaranteed money. It's not going to hurt us. Yeah. We basically it was twelve point three five. That's what he's gonna make this you. Yeah. When you're deal. Now, check just doesn't do this. He's not going to give you a draft pick on top of having to pay a drag. What they give for any skill. A third fifth round the fourth round. I can't remember. But he was on the outs with Al Davis. He quit on the Oakland Raiders. He was a steel on the open market because a lot of people thought he was done. He had just quit on football. And Randy Randy's make much money. Not not for what he was. Right. And that's the thing. Okay. People aby quit on the Steelers. Okay. All right. You got it. So what did Bill check do a couple years ago? He did go into free agency. So he didn't have to have a draft pick for Stefan Gilmore? Yes. Model citizen who's now only twenty eight years of age right now. But he gave in five years sixty five million with forty guaranteed thirteen a year. He's scheduled team. Did he live up as he'd been worth? You would say. Yeah. Absolutely. Because you were making the case he could have been the MVP in the super baps, right? Yes. Okay. And he had eight not a good year last year. He had a great year last all pro. Okay. Robo you mix and match a lot of interchangeable call. On defense. But you got you need one corner, and you got one right because you let Malcolm Butler go, and you wouldn't even play him in the Super Bowl a lot of. That's a look you won't guys that can play. But if the guy that can play really, well is going to destroy your locker real process you don't ever want to guide us in your locker room. That's impressive. Because sometimes guys are so talented guys will naturally gravitate towards them. And then they like hold on the act if I act like this if I get good I can do that. You don't want that Antonio Brown? Learnt I'm telling us what's going to happen in portly. They're gonna come in time to Antonio Brown's gonna lose a little bit of lateral quick. He's not gonna be explosive was absolutely know what happened to those guys. They go quick. Quick. All right. Larry is euro is not the lamp is that we know and love moved inside. He moved his lot. But he can't his mouth show. He doesn't criticize anybody. And granted like I said, I believe the Steelers organization are bare lot of responsibility. And I got I got it. But speaking of that organization is it possible. This was their game plan all along we ask high. I they wanted I and a player on his right in that's not going to happen. Maybe they asked high thinking will if somebody's crazy enough to give it we'll go ahead and part ways. But the odds are we won't get it. And we can turn to Antonio at the end of business today and say, you know, what we tried and we just can't get back. What we think you're still worth? So I guess we're gonna have to try to figure it out going forward with you here. I don't know. I don't see how to happen skin. He's moved on. I don't see how that he is clearly moved on. I'm not sure they have this not how do you go into the you said that about the quarterback after you said what you said about the head coach said all these things how first of all how. Lookout treated labor. Yon wasn't even there. And they moved over that locker room had moved on from labianca. I'm just trying to figure out how does the locker room embrace him because they realize Antonia walked out on them and seven teen when they absolutely needed him. The most I agree is when he pulled that. All right, then my plan B would be one of these teams. I read that are out out that they just wait, wait, wait, wait, wait until zero hour. And I say, well, okay. I'll give you a third. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's all we let's take the right? Something is better than nothing. Feel good for a be either. And he will not be happy. If that's what goes down because a lot of this. You know because remember when he and this reported got into it. And he said the porter said a lot of the reporters that a lot of your success is based on been rocking. Burger don't know. How fortunate you are? He said trade me and Seton. So former PR guy tweeted there. Right, right. Exactly. With the thing. So his ego is tied to getting a first round pitting. Oh, you didn't think that somebody gave them ping? It ain't the same. Somebody give third or more around the same. And let's not forget what Larry FitzGerald said. You never know. How good you have it until it's gone. And you might be the case for a minute last night. It looked like his next quarterback was going to be Josh Allen in buffalo. Right. I'm how I don't think he compares to Big Ben quite on. This does big band big band the clock in London that one to that quick is that he does he can run. Now really lead didn't eat lead. Have a couple of hundred year on help quarterback run really helping. Nice look Braun. He did pass Michael Jordan for fourth place on the all-time foreing list this week, but the milestone took place in another Lakers loss and when the game was basically over Rondo sat in a courtside seat instead of sitting on the Laker bench talks about this. Plenty he was criticized in so many places so yesterday Rondo ripped the media that focused on his act and not on the bronze achievement Rondo wrote on Instagram quote. Most of y'all have made a career out of LeBron James, y'all can't pay the man some respected. I hear your, Shannon. Did you? I want who we were talking about all, you know, who's y'all was the president of y'all have a point. Yes. Absolutely. Within night was supposed to be at that moment about a great achievement. And we should have given him credit for what he was able to do granted. I get it team hadn't had success. And they're not where they thought they would be LeBron James is the most dissecting athlete, I think I can ever remember. But we can't mention his greatness without dissecting misteps. See if I'm a musician and I win a Grammy. I don't want somebody get up there. They give me my war talking about yet. But that lasts with terrible. That's what we do in. Lebron? This moment was not about twenty eleven failures. It was not about two thousand and ten failure about with the Boston Celtics. It wasn't about the step that he had against San Antonio or. For him. He collapsing Golden State land in game one. But that's what turned into how about LeBron James is the fourth. All timeline score, his his consistency. And the way he's played the game on the court in the way, he's had no misteps off of it. But that's not what we do with him. We take every opportunity when he does something good. But you remember what happened in twenty eleven. He had the ultimate all time down for superstar. You remember you remember lashing game one Janney. That was the biggest meltdown. He was so king. Yeah. New he was wrong wrong over pointing that out Rondo make some very very compelling point. But Rondo do what you did you brought this own LeBron? We not only do we have to talk about LeBron when he did we had to talk about you. Liberal rage on Rondo said, he did what he did eight ten times. He said magic and rob linka called him on the day off and told him what they expected of him and as an NBA rule that he can fit there. Now somebody's lying. It's hard for me to believe that rage on Rondo had done that thing eight to ten times. And in the NBA had not called and told him or him a letter. I didn't see it. Jenny salon. I didn't see said. Also who'd ever thought Rondo would come to LeBron James defense. Well, that's the other part of this. That's introduced rooms they hate Ray Allen because Ray Allen joined him in south beach, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett. And Ray on Rondo led to group that wouldn't accept him to the cookout offering to be oh, Jesus Shuttleworth. Now, we've got to be able to come out. Rondo is champion the calls now. But he absolutely right. That was him sitting on the in in the fancied battle side him joining LeBron lay out the his hatred. Lebron him that aside? But he's absolutely right. This was not the time nor the place to take shots that LeBron about misteps that he's had in his career. It was about the magic genie. If I get I I get awarded FOX I legis. Legis cute. You hypothetical. Give this time. Expense basic get up there and say, well, you come a long way, you you were tell. But when you first started this job, you remember that you can get your you can get together with someone has an accomplishment being on the work. I don't want somebody come up there and talk about the misteps. It's about that moment Dade how remember all those cases at diet do. You know, what's? Go ahead. That's something that you would actually do that point but regime, Rondo Rondos, absolutely rice killed. This was not the time to try to take shots in a lot of. We'll talk about your guy. Michael, jordan. That'll. What he said, wait. This was not the time to take shots about LeBron about it was time to praise the accomplishment, and Rondo is absolutely ruining just just a quick aside. A bit of self defense on my part, if I might there was a time when I made a career out of Terrel Owens, and then I made a career Tim tebow. And then I made a career out of Tom Brady. And then I made a career out of anybody who ever wore the Dallas cowboy uniform so just for the record. It's not always about this guy. But this guy is I say this every year. He's the most fascinating player. I've ever observed observed because he's so all-time great. But he does have his flaws and that makes him fascinating. Okay. Okay. Go back to this to your point. I think you were trying to arrive at at the end to what you said. This was the ultimate blame deflection. On the part of Rajon Rondo because I just in my career, I try to rack my brain. I don't remember. Any basketball player any NBA player ever college? Pro whatever. While the game is still being right sitting in a court side seat. Some I don't know twenty seats down from your bench and appearing to salt appeared to me. But but something was not right for Rajon threat. One right. Yeah. Okay. That makes you a side show that people are going to report on and talk about in respond to. But does that mean that all the focus game went on Rondo? No just a little bit of focus Rondo and just to defend our show yesterday. We did do the Rondo topic. We did it in. And it was one of our shorter topics of the day. We did LeBron four times yesterday the two and a half hour show. It wasn't like Rondo dwarfed. Lebron we leave lead lead with Rondo and during the game. Remember LeBron past Michael five thirty eight left in the second quarter. Correct. So it got celebrated at. At the moment, more nationally than internally and Staples. But it got celebrated certainly on ESPN the confetti affectively fell on ESPN felt like it fell ESPN presenting it, I'm not bashing being they should have because it was a big milestone and because he's been chasing the ghost in Chicago. It looked like he had caught and passed the ghost on the scoring list. Well, that's a huge story that got made huge at that moment in post game. That was the biggest story by far. So it's not like everybody decided to. Oh, let's let's blast. Rondo and listening to Glenn to celebrate. Lebron? That's not what happened we celebrated. Lebron? You did. I did. Okay, right game. Maybe you should go mask. I couldn't believe you didn't. I think you knew in your heart hearts. It just wasn't Ryan. We just. Getty. Stop it. Right. You have come out here with the mass. I mean, they're four and ten since he came back from injury. Am I right? But I missed the gold mask. I I was I predict. Would I predicted? I predicted before the show Chris Ely, our producer that you would come out in the goat mask and the candles. I like that stuff candles brings candles and handle break here because you can't hold a candle to me those. No, the aroma draft, bitching. So I'll be smell. Sure would. All right. Okay. So again, this goes on. I don't know. How many words this like a couple of hundred words of blamed affliction like what are you talking about? You did this. We didn't do it. I didn't tell Rondo go sit in that seat. If he wasn't on the Lakers. If let's say for the sake of argument's, he's a Memphis any does that it's not a story. But you did it on the night that LeBron brought Michael Jordan record. And you did it on the very team. Okay. But if Rondo is still Rondo, and he does have his Celtic heritage on his legacy. Right. And he did play in those finals final. Okay. Bye. And that's why I'm saying he played in the two on one. Okay. And he's still in Memphis. He's a grizzly. And he does that we might do it at our number ten top last topic in the show because he's Rhonda like he's added again, right? Not have a history of sort of off center behavior. Like like when you least which is would you point out yesterday? He's been on. Five times in six years. I think six and five he did this on the very night on the very team when the gap pass, Michael Jordan. So what did he expect to happen? Maybe it's his fault that he took a little bit of front is off. Lebron? I I would agree. I would agree, but he is shooting the messengers, right? Or in the media. Like, how dare you talk about me on his night? You jump started. If he does any other night. I don't know if it's the story because all it is a story to LeBron story. But you made that that okay? Why you get why are you getting upset with something you created you created Franken's, Dan? Now you upset that he's destroying the lamp you Rondo, but Rondo make some point. And look here Rondo is not without phone. He's ninety five percent phone. But there the fire percent of him. That's right. Because you yesterday. And your celebrate or, but you still found time to bring twenty eleven you d do that because you're doing a topic of who's better between Jordan, and no no, we did a topic that will by him that was by itself band alone. Okay. But but that was when I brought it up. Now, you know, bring it up. Oh, sweep it under the carpet. If we didn't you should've vetoed. The top pre show meeting to say, I don't want to do that. That's not fair. I won't you did not say that topic is not fair because you wanted to make your case that he is better than no. I'm going to unmake your case if you're gonna make it he's not I'll need a truck. Fuck you wanna Trump bigger? The case all the cases are on this will get back bow. But what it is? And you know, I'm telling the truth. You know, when someone has a historic accomplishment is not the time to come up there and talk about their misgivings. Okay. If you wanna take tomorrow, you know, what tonight? We've heard people say tonight your night, I met you'll night up the night Mara. Okay. Help me out with this. I'm gonna help you out much as I can. What happened early in that game on Wednesday night? Lebron? Four point just a second. I didn't do this. But it was reported that he was roundly booed Staples. This is on the night when we know what's coming. He's going to pass Jordan. It's going to happen within the first half. Right. Yes. And yet it was reported that he was loudly. Booed for missing four straight free. Throws to start the game that up. Okay. Well, I can't help it happen. I didn't do it. I didn't miss four four free throw. And he doesn't break the record. Maybe you can bring that up. But the celebration him passing him passing Michael Jordan. We need to talk about that. Okay. Very small narrow path. What are the most free throws? Lebron is ever missed in a single quarter of his career. The most he's ever NIST talent four that night that quarter. Wait a second. That was a historical milestone. So you have to report. Now, I want to keep that same energy cabinet rant missile for MS two free throws because miss too. Bill the night. I know everyone wants one. Oh, yeah. What would the want would have done? It was over time. I got it. Okay. All right. But I'm trying to have to question. Those four free throws what role did they play in? Lebron James passing. Michael Jordan, delayed, the unenviable. That's what happened. Okay. Delayed it so should have been. We don't even talk about that. You know, what that was unbelievable of complicate Ron James had been a been a model of number on change this year. I didn't do this. He did this. He shooting sixty one percent. So the point is the re started the show today talking about how Laker nation cannot put its arm yet around LeBron and making a made man make him part of the family because he can't even make his free throws here. And so they take that personally. Like, you can't even make your free throws for us while we have. I mean Kobe fan we hire them imposing them anything. Okay. We're gonna get to what MJ had to say about this little bit later, but her should skip. Now be scared of the Redskins. Yes. Yes. The N reports the Broncos have agreed to trade case keenum to the Redskins for a sixth round pick in twenty twenty keenum, led the Broncos to a six and ten record and became expendable. When Denver worked out a deal for Joe flacco, the Redskins QB situation is in flux since Alex Smith suffered a compound fracture in his right leg last season. And it's unknown if he'll play next year. So Shannon is a good move or bad move for the Redskins lateral move. I don't I don't improve Washington when I owed. I don't view him as any better than Kate then a Colt McCoy we saw a not liar season. We saw case keenum get the Minnesota Vikings to the NFC championship games when they had a historically good defense. Especially on third down. They had to one thousand yard receivers guys that can make plays all over the field. We saw when coat when cocoa when case keenum. Did not have that. We saw what he is Colt McCoy in case keenum, I bleed there won in the same skip. I believe they're good backups three or four games that hold. They can hold the hold it in the role filled sodas, cliche or steady state the ship. But long-term, well, we need these guys to play for an extended period of time. And they're going to take us to where we need to be. That's not happening. There is elated incidents in one hundred year history were guys have gotten better later in their career. I'll give you rich Gannon. I'll give you Kurt Warner. But we're talking about one hundred years, and we're talking about two guys normally at this juncture guys start to get into the thirty. We know what you are. Yeah. We know who you are especially at that position. So for me skip. I don't think they've improved. I think better move. They say you can have Josh Rosen. Boy, second or third round. They will. Try for that. That would seem like a better option to me, which means. A Kingsbury relied. We had made no decision if you thinking about trading hill, you major decisions we know you had made your decision once calamari selected the same engine that represents you. Done. I am a case keenum fan. And I am here to tell you. I now fear the Redskins next because of case him because of case keenum. I know he's a gutty little overachiever undrafted out of the university of Houston, the faith thing that what called me what you what you say to Kirk. What would you call it? Over. Under confident. Yeah. Overachieved? A little taller. Case keenum is better than Kirk cousins. Eight years. I can prove it. I got this isn't small sample size. I got twenty seventeen and I got twenty eight in Minnesota aren't helped me out who looked better in those two years case keenum or Kirk cousin same team same with that. The things was aim receiver defense it should have been. But it wasn't lose anybody know, but they weren't very few deep comeback better than they were the preview. Yoon, you know, that case keenum is better than Cole McCoy, and I respect Colt McCoy because he's pretty good. And he is beating my Cowboys on a Monday night, pretty bad. Well, he did it and he is capable a lot. He would have beaten Alabama and the national champion Fiene got believe I do believe that. I think I picked him. I'm pretty that's why you believe that. But that would so case keenum in the NFL is twenty six and twenty eight as a starter. It's not it's not great. But it certainly not bad. It's bad. And it's. Better than what Washington had and he would be better next year than Josh Rosen. If you do Josh Rosen into the starting lineup in Washington next year, you better hide your eyes because they were hidden last year in Arizona, if I'm if I'm a fan, and I gotta wash cave keenum Colt McCoy, I'm plugging my is I want knowing your eyes out our no part of that. Yeah. Case keenum can't operate at quarterback. Case keenum has vision kale has mobility. You watched him in Denver last year. I didn't watch much because Denver was sorry. Oh, really in the quarterback. With Elway allowed the whole roster to get sariano and John Elway picked a head coach who was not really commanding head coach. This is not about right? John Hassel missed in age and in the DRAM spatially at that position. I see erosion of talent across the board in Denver. Okay. And they closed their is plunged on Joe fluke. Oh, really, Joe fluke. Oh, win does not hold up. Ron them up. And so I. Close the case as in keenum, right? Know case keenum twenty seventeen he went eleven and three for the Vikings receivers you better believe receivers Kirk cousins ad receivers last year, Kirk co the number. I'm looking at these numbers. Because would you believe case keenum had the second best QBR in the league in twenty seventeen finished second? Hello. What about twenty eighteen we're talking about twenty seventy white? Wait, wait. I'm not finished about twenty seventeen. He threw for three hundred eighteen yards in a playoff game, albeit at home against a really good New Orleans team. And what happened on the final play of that game? Green buffalo, right and key left seven heaven. That's what happened that. Did. He not make a great decision on that play. Because remember what what the a bunch right formation, and you got Kyle Rudolph. You got Jerry's right? And you got digs over there at you split the lint as the X over to the left by right? The play is designed to go to Thelander. But case keenum looks up. This is this is huge guts pressure now. Because this is it this is the football game. Any looks left to Phelan who is like triple covered. They thought he was going to go to Phelan. And then he comes back to the right? And he goes to the receiver. He wasn't supposed to throw it to on the deeper quarter out. Remember? Marcus Williams takes a bad angle. I don't know what he was throw at a bad angle. And the reason why he didn't go to field. You said it was triple feeling had one on one coverage. I know 'cause I played in the system. You did when you got X receiver in the hail, Mary we now okay trips set if he's single cover. We'd beat we beat Washington that play rod with single covered by Darryl green and John through. He got Darryl green. You got Darryl green one on one with with. Well, he was undrafted he beating deep one on one. How thirty our ties down ball. Oh, a jump ball. Yeah. Darryl's like five nine where the what is your thought about that before they put him on? Rod rod wasn't undrafted rookie with their agreeing that stay still. Rod was really he was really good skip stop making. Okay. He he made an all time. Historical play. Throw a with the catch and run on the hat. You make a great choice on the throat. Yes. He was joint. He make a good throw. Yes. He did. It was right on the money. And they're still talking about it, Minneapolis. It was good. Think she remembers? She was remember you on your shame yourself. We're talking about case keenum latkes like that. I'm just saying he's better than Cole McCoy needs better than Kirk cousins. I nev- what did I tell you repeatedly? Religiously I never feared Kirk cousins. A you not gonna fear case keenum when he was a Redskin Kirk cousins one and six against my Cowboys and beat Kellen Moore and the one good quarterbacks decent quarterbacks. Don't move team team. They don't and you keep I look at case keenum, and I look at Colt McCoy, Jen, if you don't mind me asking you good, which is which is heavier a ton of bricks or feathers. You want me to answer that? On this spot. No answer that. No. You can't. Yeah. So they're the saying a ton of bricks trick questions. Trick question. Don't put the put her on the. Do that. That is not fair. Non just violated the undisputed. Not fair that what you you hype. In Washington thing is to make. Got a much better shot at do. Dallas one time at home. That's what they gotta shot a much better shot of getting the number one overall draft picking twenty they gotta shot also told you Alex Smith is better than Kirk cousins. I was right about that. This is the situation. Skip I would not be disappointed. If if the NFL said, you know, what we're going to give you can't relief because Alex Smith is not going to be able to play. But the reason why the NFL won't do that. Because team will find a way to start just like the our route. And you know, why the Jimmy and all these other teams started hiding players on our did. That's why they let it come back. Now, you have to be on eight weeks now, but it used to be if you win our done for the year. Okay. 'cause teams circumvented this rule. Also. Okay. We're talking about case keenum for one year and one year only they will be a better football Denver though. There were case keenum was going to be better Trevor siemian he'd be better than Paxton Lynch. He'd be better than Broncos Walla. But Denver thought John Elway would be John Elway. And he GM not hold on. Hold on. He's been pretty good hasn't two Super Bowls because Peyton Manning came and knocked on his door and said can I play we got it? Okay. Well, you got the thing. John took a big risk. Cause painting could barely throw the ball for to you know, I got it. But I'm not being twenty twenty hindsight. I said this will be the greatest move. John Elway ever make aunt outside DeMarcus ware. He's a key to leave him as he draft him and Chris has undrafted but bomb I mean, everybody what have you done for me lately? You're right. But hold on that you make it seem like everybody had MRs in the draft up. I mean, it's not like coach Belichick has been talking about the bar. He hasn't. I get lucky with you know, you get lucky with Brady you got grump. But for the most part, Julian element was what seven okay. Yeah. No. I agree. Minnesota I asked for cheese. Over want consistency. Please just be happy. You make it seem like y'all be going to the playoffs every year trying. Okay. Well, lebrons spend the rest of the season on the vent. Go even back. Lakers. Well, basically out of the playoff hunt. So we might be seeing less LeBron for their final seventeen games Walton said yesterday that he will quote me monitoring his workload from here on out. In addition, the Brun might sit back to backs he's averaging over thirty five minutes a game this year. But that's expected to go down to about thirty. We're joined by episode NBA analyst seaman, Jan look this is out styling you again. I got to keep up with you guys. Always is. Okay. Even is this the right approach. Why playing it makes your him at all? Oh, really? Man. Listen, listen, listen, right now was more important for his team is the guys that you think that you want on this roster. You wanna see what young guys are gonna be professional? You wanna see what young guys gonna finish the season the right way? You know, what you get with Brian? You know, what he's gonna bring you worried about next season. You know, you're not making the playoffs. The young guy that you that you want on this team the guy that you have on this team the young guys that you thinking about keeping a trading. Let them go out and play and see if they can fashioning heart not all of them. The Gaza's hurt. That's the guys that might not be there. Exactly. I'm talking about the other guys. They have on the roster those they gotta feel that Rostov. So bring the D league is bring some of the guys that you might bring in the fill in the roster next year because you're you're gonna make some trade and give them opportunity to learn some professionalism and finish the season the right way and see what you get. I'm not surprised by this. I said this skip I believe you'll be playing somewhere between twenty thirty and thirty two minutes. Okay. But that's that's pretty many. A lot of men and not I mean for most people he would averaging he was averaging thirty five point eight. Yeah. Since he returned from injury. He's averaging thirty eight that's the third most in the league behind Paul George, Bradley Beal, hey to go down from from from thirty eight from thirty six to thirty thirty two. That's a heck of a lot of minute. And guess what? He's about to do. He is about to do something here the ad and done in fourteen years you'll have off to completely off. What about Space Jam to he worked heating? You'll be jumped on the knows it. No. We're going to get an early start. Right. Need is risk. Exactly. Eight final strain. Kyle. So he had missed the playoffs. At all it has to make sense. Make plan them right now does not make sense which thinking what you keep that. It could you don't hit last you remember when the to LeBron was rested. You have that energy? Why you rest it because he'd gone to the playoffs. No, no, no. He going -cational. He would read it in February. And everybody's like ref their home don't rest on the road. Because these teams only get one chance to see LeBron v planted the Western Conference in debt now. Now, you ain't got no problem when breath did not you wanna take up all year home, aero fans. Can't see play the Bronco. I definitely your basketball player you make it thirty five million go give it up thirty thirty two minutes. 'cause also get we got a pitch at the end of the tunnel to Corinne oil capitain k-. We won't we need that. I on get that. He's is on that prize. Right, debris. Don't be surprised if he said a Brayson, and they don't okay. Well, that's a whole nother. So I told you yesterday if you're is still on the Kareem prize in the management is suddenly has gone down down down to design prize. Right. You need to your cross purposes for the rest of you got seventeen games left. So what you wanna do is? I'm okay with him because he's not gonna play in the playoffs for once. Playing thirties is usual thirty five minutes thirty thirty thirty five minutes because he needs to score to keep on pace to pass cream. If that's your goal in life is to pass cream and be all time greatest score in the history of basketball. You better keep playing minutes in the seventeen games. And yet your teammates should be Alex Caruso and on. John Williams and Isaac Bunga. That's you should be my right? Yes. I am. Right. Because you need to go Owen seventeen. Because if you do you're gonna plummet all the way down to near the bottom of the west you'd be one rung, probably just above Phoenix. Right. Would that not greatly increase your lottery chain? I mean, right. Well, that's they won't came. Can we get up? Can we lose enough game to being contented to get Zion? Well, sure, you'd have to hit the lottery now we get on. What we do. We do not gonna win a championship having wait another. You know, we get we trade him. Okay. True. Have to because I be enough with we go trade reload trades I on we'll trade Ingram and cool as I on Kouzmin Ingram for AD and holiday, that's the only way it makes sense. What hypothetically what if Kevin Durant and Kyrie do site? Let's join forces with LeBron LA and you have Zion with that. Not. We're always do trade. We you went on top of the. Well, then it's not fair who cares about fair you go. Get candy. Go run fair. Okay. So I'm going to ask a hard question here. Remember at age thirty four I'm gonna say it one more time, Michael Jordan and Chicago not only made first team all defense, but he won his ten scoring title and he won his six finals with his six files. MVP? So that was aged thirty four LeBron is now thirty four years. Okay. I'm just asking question. Here. Are we seeing LeBron slowdown is father time starting to at least just tap him on the shoulder because I see a little slowdown because he doesn't play his heart on defenses. He used to am. I I'm just trying to be objective about it. Right. Is that where we are with him? I want to know where we all can't fit down on the chair and he defense extended stretch lackey wants good. Okay. But remember you're only talking about a thirty four year old, right? I mean, it's not like he's forty two. He's not the normal thirty. After this. When Michael Jordan was thirty four years old. Remember, he has two years I year LeBron James than you think at thirty four. Michael Jordan, thirty four what year thirteen but father time don't really really affect your defense by the time affection athleticism. Yeah. Defense is here. He all into. Defense is one to play defense defense is making its forcing yourself to do it. It's not nothing that athleticism does imagine. Now that is a deep. Good point. You have to want to play deep. Imagine. If you know what I ain't got to worry about rebounds, Dennis Rodman. Go get eighteen. I don't have to worry about Cisco Scottie Pippen going dole out seven. I just have to worry about Lee, though, date has automatic you have to everybody has to play defense. But look what you had. He had Ron Harper. He has got a pimping he had Dennis was still defensive player year. That's what I'm saying. If you don't think it's easy to play defense with other great defensive players. You have a better defensive team. Yes. But individuals the why he just wanted that one year then, but I'm saying. Defense every year. How many times per team different the plans all defensive teams ninety nine. Burma Rami six nine six plan. Here's what it's over. Want get you don't put that f- in. Oh, he didn't put that effort. He the only thing he chased down sides. He was never great on the ball found. Oh, my right. Oh, okay. That was a long time ago you well. I'm doing it because it's the truth eight times. Okay. But it's over that's not happening. You already said he case sit in a chair anybody can sit in the chair if they really care to they got. Not at that age not doing that. Nobody's sitting in the chair doing what he has to do this fit in the chair, but Rosa web getting double digit rebounds in says who getting double digit rebounds. Lebron? Well, he should be whether reason why he passes so much because he got these normally used to have guys that can pick up the scorn he used to have an about him. He said he wanted play makers and not shooters that's on him. And I'm looking at you like LeBron you only in sixteen years only play with two playmakers. Okay. That's carrion D Wade in even with those guys you had shoot a surrounding. He all this time without a serious. Andrea, shannon. I don't think they need to put him out these last couple of games trying to get his points. You can get hurt and coming into next season missing the first he that's why next. Weights doing that. Ball. What do you plan for we play for basketball? They thirty five. Meet I'm showing up thirty five five being you have other guys that can play you need him. Oh, the Lakers wanna win championship. I worry about the big pitch. I'm whereabouts pitcher right now in front of me wants saving you heard. What you going to say I'm gonna say are you going to say they should have sent him down. It's not new. Right now. Nothing. No, it's so, Shannon. I got family. We don't take time set example when he was coming in a random wine. That's the example should've said. Oh, you lucky you lucky coming without ever player job? And he should have strolling honest. I never walked in with it. You've done a few things, but I never walked one might have been own. Whatever happened iron, man. That's all I ever heard. He spends ten million a year on his fitness in his nutrition. Okay. Why why are we now we're talking about him? Like, he's decrepit old man who needs not that skip. I don't care how much being I got some of the best healthcare you money can buy. But it doesn't me from getting sick y'all be three million dollars a year on his body. He can't get injured. No. I'm saying I'm trying to refrain him from getting injured by sitting him though. We don't sit down. We don't play these thirty minutes. We don't keep this twenty seven average, eight assists, eight rebounds, and we're gonna move so saying, it ain't beneficial is artificial beneficial. You don't sit down. No. I know he no, no. He can't sit down in that chair. And do all go side. But Ashra holiday can they do it for. He's shocked me scared. Day. Can do it all game? That's Beverly that's Bron. Beverly tonight, but that's not his job. Like you say the on Shannon box up. Why don't you chase down? Lou Williams at night when he made that bad cross-court pass. No, I know. No. We don't even have to chase down today. Thank you for joining us. Right. A Cowboys player called it. We explain why amount. Cowboys defensive end. David Irving is already suspended indefinitely for violating these substance abuse policy. Now, he might be done in the NFL for good or posted this video on Instagram yesterday while smoking saying he is done with football because of the league's marijuana policy, so Shannon. What do you make of this? David Ervine realized how ridiculous. And how ridiculous sounded apparently not. And I was reading some of the comments abundant that. And you write bra. No, you not don't don't encourage this foolish nece skip. Season testing for marijuana. They give you an advance note. Okay. They're going to test. When you go back to me and Cam they're going to test you for marijuana. If you clean you good smoke away. This high worked one positive tenth get referred to the program. A think about elation to game checks a third by listeners four games. A violation is four games a bit by ten games six violation. You get the spending four year. Okay. So how many times have this man had to have failed to get the spending for year? I get it. Skip. I've talked to a lot of people in some of the retired players. They say, Shannon, this godsend, and I used to be stunt advocate. No. No, no. But I believe there's a way to go about all things you smoking a blunt on Instagram is not the way to go about it. You're talking about medical medical in hairs, the Feng every every medicine ever come out has a purpose. If the abuse of that because this what we knows give for every five players that really needed to tolerate pain. They're going to be fired or ten that do because they can skip. Forgive me, if I'm wrong, I do not believe, and I could be wrong that David Irving is doing this for medicinal purposes. If I'm wrong lawyer for gifting and hair, the fine line that we gotta walk because he Josh Noah, Josh, Gordon, or is he doing this pleasure because I have impotency, and I sympathize with someone that's going through this. But it just goes to show you all these people marijuana is not addictive, boo. John because you can make fifty million seventy million eight you can't stop doing something. That means it has a dicta- person be it sex or gambling or shopping gamp. Whatever the case may beats you can be addicted to a lot of things I just I just believe he went about it the wrong way not saying that he doesn't make some compelling points. But until the NFL dot your point of view, say, you know, what guys we're gonna loud this. But we're going to have to gonna have to come, you know, your to our doctors. And yeah because you doctor about your prescription for anything. No matter what you need the opiate crisis. Give they were giving him a very good reason. It was when people started abusing it. Yeah. When it became a problem, then it became a problem. And I'm afraid that especially a lot of the retire plan that I've talked to some says it helped me get out of bed. I got a problem with it. If you need it for that. But for me skip for you to do this to be suspended. I don't believe this is all pain if I'm wrong outcome air, I'm wrong. But to be suspended six relation. That's what we're a results in. And when you knew when they were going to test you for the very first time man, you still do it. The L we face get to dis when it comes to the marijuana paying to dis. You either dumb or you dependant, those are the only options and. So I'm going to speak as obviously a Dallas cowboy fan just washing his last night. Just tore me up because I have talked him up so many times. He's an extraordinary talent. We had rob Ryan on the show last year. Just raving about him. Rob says he's the biggest human being I've ever seen in pads football field because he looms six feet seven on what he weighs three three tamp. Yep. And I have seen him in action. I'm not going on potential. I'm watching performance where I saw that game. You'll remember the game at Green Bay. This isn't twenty sixteen Dax rookie or they went up to back. Dak outplayed Aaron Rodgers, and they just did a number on them thirty two sixteen guess who the the NFC defensive player of the week was David Irving? He just took the game over and he forced three fumbles and recovered one and he had a sack any Batu down on Aaron Rodgers pass. And he only played nineteenth snaps in the game. And you could just see it. You see what happens in the middle of the line, a defensive tackle? He just creates havoc in the middle of the line. Because he just looms up everybody. Okay. So I'm sitting last night. I'm thinking am. I watching his whole NFL career literally go up in smoke. Right. Go up in smoke, you watching it live relies. What what what are you doing? Is. It addiction dependency. I don't know. Is it sad? Yeah. Yes. Really sad. Because I just have this this fear in the pit of my stomach for this kid. And he's still he's twenty five years old. He's going to wake up at thirty five and say, what was I doing right? I had it in the Paula my and. Talk to skip when they made bad mistakes. They've done something wish they had the money that they had lost. Yeah. Through the decisions that they made. And I'll agree with you. I think he will look back one day. Like, man, what the hell was doing on that thirty forty million dollars. Go in in the fame of it. The the achievement of it. We're as you know, you become. A made man in the NFL forever. You would always be what if he made five pro bowls. Who knows if he could make the hall of fame, but let's say he becomes a Pro Bowl player then for the rest of your life. You're known as a Dallas Cowboys star in Dallas trust me. You can trade off that amount of time. A lot of the guys have very similar background. If you listen to the hall of famers all overcame, something, and you get to level everybody's overcome something some more than others. For me getting out of the environment. My brother when we talk a lot. But the only thing we really talk about with getting our grandmother out of that environment. I was unwilling to do anything that we jeopardize that. Now, I've been very fortunate. My father my father died at age of thirty nights because he drank himself. I have yet to have uncle to reach the age of seventy on my mom side. Not one has ever reached that age. My grandfather didn't reach that age. So I'm thinking to myself if you know that about yourself skip, David look, I understand. But I believe there was a better way that you could have done this better than I g live smoking a blunt in the offseason talking about you quitting the NFL because they don't see outta I with you on what you think marijuana should be viewed. That's something that you go to you go to the players association, and you ask them to to have a panel discussion, and you try and talk to the lead eventually skip. I believe the league will see to this because they see what happened with the pain peel in everybody. Everybody can't if you say one every more I was skipping. They say take one every four hours. If I go in and take two. Yeah. And then to leave the three four five, right? Come on. David rock. Okay. You don't wanna play in NFL eight send out a letter says I retired from the NFL. You don't even have to say what? But goal I live. Yep. I don't know how many people are gonna become sympathetic to you plight. But the simple fact, you're smoking a blunt offseason, and you're talking about pain is that why you got suspended all the other times. In in every time, I hear speak. He has intellect to like like he has the ability to think through what's happening because deep and the points. He's making about the painkilling drugs. They're smart because they're real. They're by absolutely. Yes. The hypocrisy involved. They're forcing us to take these painkillers and this is wrong. Right. Well, if you just wait awhile, it's might be legalized the next few years across the country. And then all bets are off. Exactly. Okay. We we understand. But I just don't understand. Does he think by him doing this live that NFL say, you know, what that pose data? Neighbor urban. Yeah, we now we really need to take this under consideration. Sometimes I just wonder what the look I don't tell guys how the spend their money, but I always advise guys. Don't miss your money. Don't do things that's going to put you because I believe that most of these guys everybody is taking care of somebody other than themselves. Mom, dad. Grandma sister, brother. Everybody is doing that to some extent. Yeah. Why kids? So when you do things, I just can't think about Shannon. I had a grandmother sister had a mom head keys. I think about them. You need to think about other people other than you, and I hope h-h-hope skip. But it's hard for me to believe this. We think about you got the fail. Six tests. You do and the very first that you fail. You knew it was coming. Yeah. And by the way, you didn't even mention the failed PD test. So we got that. Would that about paying too? Don't want a video like this to be something that he lives to regret. And that's what I think everyone. Yes. Regardless of how you feel out there. It's going to live in infamy and people are gonna worry about the future. And just the social media era. You have to be careful he'll be able to get back deeds. Doing the word spoken. That's a deed. I mean, you might as. I mean, you might as. He didn't think about it. Like, you know what hold on? I want to do. This thing will be up here for Evelyn. If knob not do that. I think there's a better way to get my point across that Don that even crosses mind bra combo, David. Don't miss your money. I guess he wasn't in his right mind. It'd be played in bars. We are gonna move on to Michael Jordan because he did make somewhat of a excuse this one. But to the actually some at. Right. Exactly. On wednesday. Lebron said that passing Michael Jordan on the all time scoring list was right up there with winning a championship. He even thanked MJ on his shoes. All Jordan responded yesterday. Very short statement saying, quote, I want to congratulate LeBron on a cheering another great milestone during his amazing career. I read that. Right. Weird to by rob Parker. But first, Shannon. I. All was in war to that on that get cut off really read it again. I mean, what have read it again, one more time gradulate LeBron unachievable another great milestone during his amazing career, David Stern. Former Commissioner who is that. The tone that was relevant. Right. You ought to be ashamed. But your guy you should be ashamed that he put this out. This is embarrassing. And you know, what this is typical MJ though, because he's done very little when it comes to knowledge in LeBron James, you know, why? Because since he retired. This was the only guy that's been viewed as a serious threat to him Colby made it abundantly clear, he tried to end you late everything. Michael Jordan did. Emulation a copy can never be better than the original. Never Toby Eddie serious threat because you trying to be like me and Shannon. If you ever close your eyes and listen to Kobe talk sometime he would swear was Michael Jordan, same inflec-, my rights. He did he copied not only did you copy. He copied away. He won't he did. He copied away. He hung his tongue out of his mind. Every the sleeve on his down. The only, but he got a lot closer to Jordan. No, no, no. You know, he didn't you can't be you can't be close with only one regular season MVP. You can't be close with only two finals MB me about five championships. So that was basically, our you see you see you see what you did. I didn't do anything. Go ahead. Now, this is what Michael Jordan did for Koby in his final season when he came to Charlotte one minute and party second video tribute, not know this. Oh, congratulations. Lebron on your nother mouth. Pride. You couldn't be me. It couldn't be me. Because he now. Now, I got going Instagram, and I got the tack, you know, hack was a response you can't attack Michael Jordan job. And that's and skip this ridiculous game. That's all you got that generic blow job of a message of a man that's done that come on might you still you always going to be Michael Jordan because you did it. I your shoes going keep you own Mount, Olympus. But remember to it and. Yeah, but you gotta do a a combo that rob Parker. No. I hear you, Shannon. The only thing more Barras in that was the whole reception and ovation. Coby got here in LA, the Brian LeBron got here in LA and just think about how that went down. And I think that says a lot it was totally. And I'm gonna say I totally disrespectful. But. To LA fans. I get it to season went awry, you could say LeBron as this wasn't a good leader this year, you could say all of that. But in a magical moment like that when a guys wearing your uniform, and he's one of the greatest players period whether or not he's played here long enough. What they did that night was terrible. And the same thing with his teammates. I mean, LeBron had to go. Find Caruso to hug him and said, hey, what's your name? Again. Are we suppose walking over to write out what you know what I mean? But if it wasn't it wasn't like where was the players to come surround him like, no and the go, no other nugget. I'm not saying, you gotta go crazy out of respect big moment. Trade half the team at the dead low. But owner reminded you of when Barry Bonds hit the home run, and they didn't poor guy. Everybody hug it and home plate. He had to come in. He had to come into dugout to get the praise adulation. And then the last offer that team. That. And the last part is I blame the Lakers as well. From this standpoint, they claim the NBA Thome. We don't want you to stop the game. What nonsense lebrons Jim gonna pass Michael Jordan? What what fine? Could they have given them if they stop the game and did something? So for them. They just say, oh, the league said don't do it and buy into that. That's disrespectful abroad as well. But when it comes to, Michael, Jordan, it's obvious. They don't have a close relationship. But I think is because LeBron really is more like magic. Then LeBron Michael, Michael. And I think that's what it really stemmed for from. That's why a lot of other players when they talk about the goat. They include Koby even know most of the conversation is about the broad, Michael. And LeBron, but you know, this because Kobe had more that killer instinct that you talk about skip. That's what players and that was wore like, Michael. And I think that's part of why maybe Michael hasn't had the same connection win. Lebron? And you're right. Probably the closest guy really challenged, Michael. But, but I also believe that it's more about he's just not like what Michael was Michael was a killer and LeBron friendly guy wants to get to know everybody. Hey, hey, the games on the line. I'll give you a chance to hear you go you shoot the ball. That's something that you didn't see it. I'm not saying that Michael never did that. But LeBron has done that way. More man. Everytime. Magic stepped on the floor. He had a a million dollar smile. It was taking people out. So this this notion that you gotta scou-, and you gotta wear a frown your face to be a stone cold killer. Magic Johnson Larry Bird with being now. And I'll say this to you to stretch shut that down the game is on the line. And you give the ball to Michael Jordan or LeBron James and win the game. Would you give it to? I'm giving I'm giving the ball. Lebron? No, you're not gonna give it to somebody else. He's going to pass it to George hill. So he could miss free throws. You know, what Shannon? Stop it. You would not give the all of the ride. No, you you want to. I wanna talk about Michael Jordan. I'm going to read this comment that came down from Mount, Olympus, different way. Yes. It is lives on the top. I'm going to give you this is the way it was in ten oh his real store. I wanna congratulate LeBron James on Chieveley another great mile zone during his amazing every year period. Send it out. He said to the PR person who type this, right? Yes. Get this is what you say when you feel compelled to say something because you're an NBA owner. Right. And you are that guy. And so you have to say something, but you don't want to say anything. So that's what you say. He is fortunate that yet Michael Jordan has not yet gone full on hall of fame acceptance speech on LeBron James, I'm remember that speech do that one. Yeah. On. There's a big part of Michael because I think I know him well enough to know this who would love to just unleash unload on LeBron James right now all in the mode of how dare you. How dare you right on your shoes on that night? Thank you MJ twenty three. And then put a crown on it. Thank you for inspiring me to be greater the you. Because I am the king. Not you. I am negate yet. How dare you do that? But you remember he said he was the go. He knew when he was the golden crowned bothered you that much really. And yesterday. I was looking bronze Instagram aren't even follow him. But I looked it up just to see what he's doing. And they're just crown emojis all over it is ground ground ground, and then he dares how dare him to to post a photo. Shop picture of can we see that? Like like their equals there. They're sitting on the same. Oh, he's got a little edge. A little bit mystic. But who owned by laughing going to right? Yeah. But I had line. Yeah. Do. To right. He's saying I'm like, Mike exhibit. I'm better than mine. Saying yes, we we will know he's he is lucky that Michael Jordan didn't call a press conference yesterday. And just unloaded all over him for the audacity put himself above migrants on destiny realize. Okay. Well, that's what I'm saying. But he went the nice way out because he felt like he ran I'd rather. And you know, what this was nothing big. Nothing shannon. You should go. You to win Kobe past Michael Jordan and go see what they did in Minnesota for him. They go watch that video the game. And the fans went crazy then own Koby anything. They understood the moment. Thank you. Thank you. Do not yet understand Los Angeles fans. It is what have you done for us. They don't care about anything. That's happened outside of Hollywood. I done for Hollywood. I get input. My only thing is in that moment you have to if you are basketball fan recognize what's going on. You gotta give them more than that. I don't care about the fans the fans if you know what when he broke the record if they wanted to turn it in for the exits soapy it I'm talking about an all time great NBA player given that little acknowledgement best left. That's nothing. That's nothing nothing. This is embarrassing. Michael Jordan should be embarrassed. What is a pretty? What is pretty good disks, right? Like, a subtle diz. I got one question will will day when he passes Koby, LeBron and it happens in LA. We'll they boom. That's how would they embrace that? Do you think if LeBron on a hold on it out there by hey, I'm going higher wait until he makes his run at cream? If in fact, he can last long enough to pass Kareem Abdul Jabbar in staple, I don't know, man. Even more I'm saying, here's the thing blew not boo cheer cheer progress room rats. We roll it scale not you can jump on the train around where you'll get rolled over. Just left the track. The train is four and ten since LeBron came back from injury. We had to Rome conductor. We got a coke. By joining on the warriors rain about to come to an end. That with no. The warriors have the best record in the west. But they have been struggling at home. Golden State lost by thirty three to the Celtics at oracle earlier this week that's the fifth home game. They've lost by at least twenty points. This season. Seager said yesterday, quote, I think we owe it to ourselves we owe it to our fans, and particularly we owe it to our fans in Oakland to give them our best stuff for the coming months. Joined by who senior NBA insider, Chris Hanes, Chris. This is good because you know, this team. Well, as anyone so why they've been playing poorly at home. Look, I don't wanna make excuses for Golden State. I really don't you know, they have some minor issues. We saw Kevin Durant had the say in post game last game. The kinda contradicted what he contract at the end of the day. The issues that go to state goes through can be withstood other teams can't take on those type of issues and problems and still get through their deep and town that enough. They could over come on that little drama. So the SEO question they're born. This is March. This is. It really is covered this on a day to day the last couple years not this year. And they would talk about just how bore they were how they wanted to get to the postseason. How that's all. That matters. Remember last year, they wouldn't even they wasn't even tripping about getting that number one seat, and they didn't fight for it. They let Houston go and take it. Right. And then what happened? They go through Houston gave a battle, you know. But they ended up getting ultimate goal. That's what that right now. Man. It's just a team. That's lacking a regular season goal. But I think to curse point this last year this team is going to be in that arena. And so they wanna put on a good performance for those for those people in Oakland. But it's just boredom. What it is twofold? I agree with you that I believe their regular season there unconcerned about the regular season. Just concerned about getting to the playoffs because. Yeah, we'll lose a game here there, but we don't believe someone can beat a four times, and you weeks and teams aren't afraid of them anymore. Teams going there and they play their butts off because Golden State of the measuring stick you'll be. Okay. See? Okay. You beat. Okay. See, but you'd be Golden State now, you can say look guys we beat this team. This team has won the last two championships. This team had the best record, and we beat them. Now, you see how good we can be. If we play like this on a nightly basis, though Dole's guys are the measuring stick this number one. See they're still trying to figure out how to play with boogie different team with boogie on the floor. They don't play nearly as good as defense. They keep boogie in the pick and roll claims. Miss some games. Steph missed about sixteen games. Kevin Durant missed the game here there, but I believe fully healthy fully engaged, which the playoff. They will be still believe it will be difficult for someone to take them down four times in two weeks, though. That's what it is. But I they should be a little concerned losing one thing losing by twenty something entirely different. I think that should be a lot concern. I get where you're coming from because they're all still there. And you just look at it. And if you do the step back just say, yeah. But they still got Kevin. And they got clay and Draymond looks beat up a little bit. I don't know what if he's got some other issues. I don't know what's going on. But what alarms me for their sake? Is you don't lose five home games in a season by twenty plus points in just sweep it right under your little carpet and go onto the play offs and start annihilating people. There's something wrong there. And that's what Steve Kerr is starting to sound a little desperate about like he's he's pleading with them to. Let's get serious. It's time to get serious. Right. Because it feels like, and what are your thoughts on this feels like Kevin has one foot out the door? That's just what it feels like it probably feels like that to them. In fact, you've written some about that. Well. There's some people within the organization who feel that you like that others optimistic and say this that's just a the rigorous annoyance of a two-game season. Okay. But with all that being said one thing I can't say about Katie skip is that whatever he puts on himself as far as the drama that he brings onto a self with what he says or how he acts. He goes out in the Courtney place, he balls it never affects him on the court, and I've never seen like greater the stakes better rises to the case. So I have to give them that. And so that's why I say maybe there is some level of concern. But I seen this team skipper sent I seen this team. I seen how they get down. I know what moves in what motivates them? They are just not motivated right now, they are maybe I should be because of cinema. No. Value. What the what the last season in Oakland everything? But they're not like, I really do believe this. I'm gonna take it a step further. And what you said whenever if they're healthy motivate going to the postseason. I think they had a potential sweep through the conference if they're motivated and they're healthy onto the postseason. I don't think there's a team that can beat them when I mean beat them. I'm not talking about seven game sued. They can't beat them a game you like Houston. Look, if we're talking if you're asking me what team has the best chance is Houston quick point of order. I'm watching TNT last night at halftime, they Oklahoma City Portland game. No, those trailblazing. Every well CJ those guys and all of a sudden Kenny Smith says, you know, what I'm gonna go so far as to say, I got Portland in the Western Conference finals and Charles says, well, I'm going to do you want bad raisin? He says I got Portland winning the west. So they put it up on their board of bone statements. Post on the board. Okay. So now, we got hinny and Charles bullish on Portland, which then proceeded to go right back out on the floor and losing overtime to Oklahoma City at Portland, and it was a it was a battle late in shoot the ball. Well, but but again, you know, that team very well. I told you off camera last time you hear I'm starting to like them. Do you not love them going forward? Would they have no chance against Golden State? I love Damian Lillard. I love CJ McCollum. Yeah. And period. There's no anyway. Hold on not the disaffected anybody else. So that same great guys Meyers. Leonard those got cover that team. I came into first I covering the blazing. But overall a team and we're talking about championship coming. Those boys need some help. Then sees them. Call need some help they and I'm so hood, but he went so good last night. He had one game Charlotte game where he goes twenty one twenty seven overall, but he occasionally have one of those game now ham you can't count on him. But another Nurik company gold, seventeen rebounds, anti tripped. Russell trip. Game. But his lack of composer down the stretch cost them that game here. But in Paul George when out he would have made those those free throws at the end, but they pick somebody else, but narcos is play. This is best season. I definitely want to see what he doesn't oppose season. But look I wanna see Portland thrive. I think Damian Lillard Jim contact those guys served as to be able to advance and be able to get some notoriety. So it's good that Charles and Kenny feel that confident in that team to say that they're going to go to the final. But look man, we gotta take baby steps gotta be really really that saying they need a little bit more help maybe chosen in Kenny or just burned patriot burn out in the NFL. Maybe Golden State options out there like, you know, you get voters fatigue. You know, the MO now I mean, Houston Houston looking legit to me James hard till about aid. You gotta try to put him under wraps because he will get up thirty shot and he'll get fifteen threes. And you've been hope he's off. That's not up he'll route forty on everybody. But you think in your heart-to-heart right now. Golden State is capable of sweep in the playoffs. They're healthy going into the postseason skipping. I think that's a real possibility. Okay. Well, big one tonight as they host. That's. For me to go from the warriors could go all the way to LeBron might spend the rest of going on we go, Nick knack. The Lakers are basically out of the playoff hunt. So we might be seeing less LeBron for their final seventeen games Walton said yesterday that he will quote be monitoring his workload from here on out. An addition LeBron might sit out back tobaks he's averaging over thirty five minutes game this year. But that's expected to go down to about thirty. So Christine's is still with us. And Chris you broke this story. So you do and that's my having your around here. What are you hearing? Now, we'll look this. I'm dubbing this of cool down because it's not a shutdown. It's going, you know, it's going to be it'd be tough to get LeBron James to shut it down. You know, he has a bunch of milestones. That's in this path here, he'll be leaving points and stats. Come on now. So this is situation where I was told that leaves sources told me relates Yahoo sports that after that clipper game lead at clipper game was was it Monday Monday that was after that game man the front office met with LeBron James's trainer. Mike messia? Who is you know, wanna top athletes sports frames in the country met with him and they propose this ideal and how to limit reduce LeBron James role moving forward. I was told twenty eight around twenty eight to thirty two minutes and on back the backs they will see if he can go. But most likely he may sit out the first or the second half of that back the back, then it was related to his agent Rich Paul, and which they brought this proposal to the bra which approve which I you know, I'm surprised now that's one thing to get LeBron to approve that's the plan moving for. But I've been around the abroad a ton. One one. Begin approve actually doing it execute is another thing. So that's the plan. So we'll we'll see how tight game comes aboard. When you know when he's got when he has it cooking. Let's see if he sticks to the script in what's your gut? My gut is he's going to stick to the script. That's my gut because he has to preserve what's left of his prime to this. This was a waste a year. And I think we all knew that this wasn't going to be the season that where they wouldn't get it done. We didn't think it was going to be like this. Right. So he has to preserve himself and allowed a team to build a formula Barossa around for next year dog rude, you I'm not surprised at this. There's no reason for him to since he's returned. He was already about thirty minutes a game in his return. He's averaging thirty eight minutes, which was the third most behind Paul George brand new Bill. There's no reason for him to play that amount of minutes with really nothing on the line. I have no problem with them. I thought it would be somewhere around thirty thirty two minutes twenty eight to thirty two. And I I don't think it's etched in stone because you know, late in the ball game. If he that thirty two, and we got a two point lead to poise down with a couple of minutes to go. I can see him getting the thirty thirty five minutes. That's just that's just a competitor. In him that he's not gonna leave that. But I just didn't all the Brian. Go ahead and shut it down. I didn't see that happening. Because like you said, it's I'm here. I'm so close to pass Kobe. I'm so close to pass car not really close, but he's two years, and you missing games that sending you back 'cause notably is not passing. Kobe is not passing carb alone. That's important him. Capitan corre- is the Krim de LA creme and to be the all time in anything's get bailing is saying something and Sola Brown would do this. But like I said he gonna get his twenty seven eight he can do that in his leap hitting free throws. He'd be happy about thirty five. We will debate that. What's the ultimate goal? The ultimate goal is to play to stay sharp. You stay shot by doing what you do. Okay. Basketball player. And you can't get that in practice. You can't get that on five on five. Yeah. Get that. In simulate is the ultimate goal to pass L copy, Don or is it to win another championship? I believe we can do both B O F L quote. If you wanna win another championship, you you don't cool down, you shut down you. That's really if that's what you wanna do you shut it down right now. No. 'cause they're Woody win. It what his sure he close up. See nobody hold that against mine might. Know, let let LeBron take seventeen and we see what the story will be next year. If they wanna win. I'm glad you brought up Mike center. I was about the ask skip. You know, Mike Mike was never in a situation like this though. But if he was win champi. But if he wasn't a situation if they told Michael Jordan, he should shut it down what we might do place. He will say hell, no skip. Can you wanna? You compare Chris behind don't take he broke his foot and Reinsdorf at crown trying to shut down. Well, he broke his foot and you had to miss a bunch of time. We don't want to come back because we wanna drought better position. And he said, no, Chris Haines aged thirty four Michael Jeffrey Jordan made first team all defense won his ten scoring title one his six championship and his six finals MVP at age thirty four which is LeBron's age right here right now chronologically they're the same. But we're talking about LeBron James like he's a decrepit old man skip as father time tapped, LeBron James on the shoulder. Yes. Skins tapping keys. You just use? You can't keep doing thirty four. But at thirty four Michael Jordan within your thirteen. Lebron James fix eight straight by like on this planet for thirty four years. Just as LeBron has been on this planet for thirty in basketball, all those -secutive year. They simple simple. Yes. William -aseball. He's doing a lot of things you LeBron's. And that he is not sitting in and out. He's not shutting it down. He won't allow for again. I tried to come up with a solution for this. And I presented it to you. You're at cross purposes because you need to chase Corinne and chase Zion because you can still chase. I on there a bad basketball team right now that could lose all seventeen remaining games. They could plunge all the way to second from the bottom of the west if they lose their last seventeen with that not greatly improve your chances. We to have on eighty this is what I would do. Okay. But I believe that LeBron's ultimate goal is Corrine more than a champion show. If a championship happens it happens. I thought you said, it's awesome. It goes Hollywood chasing the Hollywood huge goal. And he's got it and east chasing, Michael Jordan down. Right. We. Rundown. Creep we run down, Mike. Okay. Here's how you can. Do. You can serve two masters at one time you can chase Corinne and chase Zion. If you allow management and Luke Walton to play all not just the kids because the kids have checked out like lonzo's just checked out for the year. He didn't wanna play for Luke Walton. And it sounds like Brandon Ingram is checking out kouzmines hurt right now. So now you start on's okay long. I said Lonzo he's he's out. Okay. Oh, okay. He's gone. So the point is play Alex crew. So at the point play mo- Wagner play Bongo play John Williams. I know I know. Ron play his thirty two minutes and night. Whatever you want him to play somewhere in there and score his twenty seven point because I keep telling you he can roll out of bed and score twenty seven. So you light recruits you see the argument they make they say LeBron. It's me. Yeah. Yeah. Alon credited bra skip Bayless and a lot of Michael Jordan apologists. They LeBron knowledge. Just he's hilarious. Maybe you don't have power jobs for the greatest. Say that LeBron does not have the killer instinct and Michael Jordan. Hey. Now, see I told you he ain't the competitive, they aren't you? Remember Kobe would Kelly may not side that why never said you remember joined broke his foot the I fifty five sixty game. And if teeth and Jerry Krause, Jerry Reinsdorf, they no you can't play here on your. Oh for the love of the game calling hand. Well, love ball into the in. Nobody could have that in their current scale the Brian. It is. All. Here varies. Going to be the fastest quarterback here as. No, I'm or our final topic of the day. NFL network reports. Cuyler Murray will run dash and participate in passing drills and his day on Wednesday Cuyler did not work out at the combine. But his coach Lincoln Riley was quoted as saying that Keiler will be the fastest quarterback in the NFL, Shannon. How fast the think you'll run up ago me looking at him road? I think you'll be somewhere around four four eight four five two four five two. Yeah. You've been watching. I don't believe on your TV is slow. I don't believe you'll approach Vicks four four three four three three. Now. Put this in context. Get believe he's going to run for two. How Rick he'll at his pro day because he wasn't invited to the combine ran four to eight in poor to nine. Do you believe calamari cannot run tie Rikio? Maybe give says he got time a couple of years ago. Cuyler did in four three three I'm thinking. Yeah. De que four three flat came mic that he at one point six body fat. All right Lincoln Riley said when Cuyler steps on an NFL he will be the fastest quarterback by far by far. Lamar Jackson at his pro day ran four three four. He was one tick off Vicks four three three. But they don't they won't give him credit for that. Because they didn't do it at the combine you have these are pro and again RG three at the combine ran four four one. So that's that's Blake book. Okay. But this kid is amused that word again, he is rare. And I promise you if he does the twenty yard shuttle or the three cone shatter the wreck because because the choppy steps I mean, he I. Oh, yeah. I've ever seen on a football field including varies. I believe. He's more quick fast might be. But my test off television tells me when he gets a step on somebody. He is gone gone in would happen so fast. He accelerated so fast. Now, maybe you could be right about he's got a first and second gear, but he doesn't have the third and run with gear that you need to cap off the forty, but I think he does I think you when you got him running I go for three flats really that would be a little red, no four three plants three flat. I'm going for five four three five says, Jenny. I five baby. I believe this man. Can I run tired Ricky? Well, I didn't say four two to four two eight. Yeah. He doesn't have world class speed. You know, RG three ran college track argue with the legit knowing mileage. Thank you for listening to the undisputed podcast. I'm Jenny Taft. Keep an eye out for the weekend edition of the podcast tomorrow morning, featuring this week's best segments have a great weekend. Everyone. Of. Of one.
ESPN's Mike Greenberg
"Hey Zack remember to tune into last dance which continues this Sunday at nine pm Eastern on. Espn listened to the wrap up podcast hosted by Jalen and Jacoby immediately following the broadcast which is brought to you by state farm when you want the real deal like a good neighbor. State farm is their coverage is also brought to you by. At you can find Jalen and Jacoby wherever you get your podcasts. Now more than ever. We have to look out for each other and count on each other marathon. Want you to know that you can count on them for high quality top tier gas marathon gasoline's are formulated with S. T. P. additives. They keep your vehicle running at peak performance by optimizing fuel economy removing those ugly deposit buildups by reducing emissions. That's good and right now. You can get five cents up every gallon every day with make it count rewards from marathon plus you can earn points for additional savings on fuel airfare hotels and more this is definitely a deal you can count on. It's quick and easy to join. Just download the free. Make it count apropos to make it. Count Dot com slash radio and start saving today. This offers valid only participating marathon stations. Remember wherever you need to be safe that people have marathon are behind you all the way and now the Lopez. Welcome to the low post podcasts. Where it's still nineteen ninety. Eight and not twenty twenty. Twenty twenty sucks and I am thrilled to be joined by someone who is around the Chicago Bulls a lot including during the first three peat and someone who occasionally lets me go on his television show in the morning the one and only Mike Greenberg. How are you? I am terrific. Thank you very much for having me on a fan of this and some thrilled to be here. I've been living I. I wrote a big twenty Cuco story last week. A Big Pacers bowl story like I just. I have chosen to exit. Twenty Twenty. Because it's too depressing and go back and relive my late teens and early twenties. It's a great time. Like Hey rik smits. How are you doing Rick Smits? You're still really sad about nineteen ninety eight but it's fun to talk to you. It's been it's been a good time. I've enjoyed it too. I've been working so I think I sometimes jokingly say of all the people that I know from a professional standpoint my schedule and life have been probably impacted less than anyone. I know during this but but I love seeing last dance in any for different reasons. Because it's not often that we get to relive our youth like the biggest difference between Those days and now for me I was there and now I'm here. Is that one that was stuff was going on. I was twenty four twenty five twenty six years old and reminding me of the way I viewed things. Then you know in some ways. It's not that the world was simpler or better or worse but I was younger and everything seems simpler and better when you're younger so I've it has been like a trip back to my youth with whole movies that don't contain me. There's someone else's home movies but I was close enough to them that they matter to me in a personal way so I've really gotten a thrill and I'll tell you one other thing. My son is seventeen and he loves basketball and I think you and I have discussed the fact that he really has never in his lifetime. existed in a world where the Knicks were a really relevant team. That one good year they made up a little bit of a playoff. Push for the most part. He has never seen the Knicks matter. So that kind of breaks my heart a little bit as a kid who grew up going to the garden all of my childhood and he also is one of these people who will tell me that. Lebron James is definitely a better player that so I have gotten extrordinary pleasure out of watching these films with him and showing him all the ways in which. That isn't true. Well so much of how we process. Sports is and how we process. Anything is we tend to like what we saw. I and so it's it's as stupid as like every night at ten o'clock except when the landscape last dances on my wife and I are binging. This silly show called the great British bake off which is a baking competition. It's like our winedown show and I like the first version that I saw better than the most recent version that I've seen just because I saw it I it's like a lot of people who love mid-range Jumpers and don't like threes. It's just because they grew up watching mid-range jumpers and not threes and if you flip the order they might feel totally differently so for me. Michael's championship runs span aged thirteen to age twenty for me. So that's like that's your coming of age as a sports fan. That's going from like kid. Who's like dimly aware of sophisticated sports analysis into young adulthood? So there will never be anybody in sports. Who is Michael Jordan for me? As a consumer of sports they just. It doesn't matter if Lebron breaks the scoring record. It doesn't matter if he wins three more championships. He will never resonate with me and people my age the way Michael Jordan. This is not possible and that is the moment that it occurred to me at some point during this that eventually we all become our dad because my dad would be the one who was telling me. Michael and I do a terrible imitation of my dad. He would say to me. Michael if you don't put Oscar Robertson in this conversation then we're no longer having it by. You don't have any idea what you're talking about if you're telling me you don't think. Oscar Robertson was every bit as good as any of these guys. You're talking about your Julius erving. You're so excited about and anyone else. I may have liked in the late seventies. Which is what. I'm a firm a load of the you are so I felt my came of age as a basketball fan. I just missed the championship Knicks. I'm just guy. Slept in Walt Frazier's pajamas. Not Literally his. But I slept in your knicks number. Ten footy pajamas and so I just missed them. So my my knicks teams of note of the earliest ones. I remember we're like toby. Night and Glenn Ganders can Larry Gimmick and all sorts of people exact all did it came to Bernard King when Women Mixed Gut Bernard King and Huby had those teams where they played the full first unit and the full second unit. That will always be my favorite team of all time when they took the the the Celtics the legendary Celtic seven games. When Bernard King's fifty points in all those games that was when I fell in love with basketball and so to me. I'll never love anything like I loved that but I'll never see another player like Michael Jordan under any circumstances. Yeah I've been. I've been going around the house for the last three days singing. The sometimes I dream that he and my wife is like what are you. What are you singing? And I'm like it's just a soundtrack to my life and it has always been and your point about everyone being your dad. So we'll bond came on the podcast last week and did the old man yelling at cloud thing about how Michael is. The greatest in the warriors would never beat the Bulls and you know he got made fun of a little bit on twitter for it. I I will tell all the twenty year olds who make fun of the forty year olds like me for not understanding. What Tick Tock is in all of this? It's going to happen to you to in twenty years to twenty year olds are going to be making fun of you for being the old out of touch person. It's going to happen to everyone anyway so I was very excited that last night. They got into the ninety two and ninety three finals in the first three peat. A little bit because you were there for that. I repeat you are on the ground in Chicago working in the media covering the team. You told me Your every. Shoot around every practice. You're so you're in Portland for the ninety two finals. You're in Phoenix for the ninety three finals. And that's going to lead us to the sort of debate. Everybody loves to have. What's the best bull's team ever? But I WANNA set back before we get into that I just you know. I've been watching a lot of those two finals for podcast purposes in the last week or two and I just I had forgot like in my head. The Portland series unfolded like a lot of the other finals. Where it was kind of it was an easier series for the Bulls had forgotten that that was a two series going into game. Five Phoenix won. I remembered that the road team on every game except for one and they had to go back to Phoenix decline. So I just I'll open it up to you. I don't know of those two playoff runs. I don't know if you have favorite memories. Favorite practices favorite conversations. Ah Game or a scene that you will always stick with you. That's your some of your favorite young Mike Greenberg Memories. So I'll start with this for me. This is probably very personal. As opposed to bigger picture. But I'm a kid from New Yorker grew up with season tickets to the Knicks. My entire family is still in New York at that time. And there are no words to describe how important the Knicks were to my family. My parents at that time my brother and I'm a reporter working in Chicago covering the Bulls and as good as the series with Phoenix was as good as interesting as the series of Portland was the series against the Knicks and ninety in the starting in ninety one ninety two ninety three and ninety four when Michael isn't fair on the Hugh Holland series. Were the most intensely competitive sporting events I've ever seen in my entire life I've never see teams like I was a little bit surprise early in the Jordan Films. Here that the vitriol remains between the Jordan teams and the bad boy pistons but seems to have largely disintegrated with the Knicks. Because I'm here to tell you that those series were every bit as competitive every bit as vicious as physical as As hotly contested and a big part of it is Phil Jackson and Pat. Riley hated each other and that was awesome. They were rivals going all the way back to their playing days. And so I mean it went all the way to the coaches. So what I remember. Most were those games between the Knicks and the Bulls were better than any of the Finals Games The year ninety three is the year that starts as the left handed dunk to win game two and it looks like holy smoke. They're gonNA throw these guys Jordan's GonNa lose and the Knicks are GonNa win. And that was one of the Dave Anderson Collins comes out of they just went through all of that in which they make a big deal Jordan going to Atlantic city. And he did he legitimately stop talking to us. Michael who was the most accessible superstar you could ever imagine who would stand there and talk to you until the cows went home At that point the cows off because not talk to anybody for weeks and that was the most it was just the most dramatic thing and I guess I had such a personal stake in it because in those days the big thing and I guess it still is in basketball was my family would never stopped telling me. Jordan is getting every call every call. This is ridiculous I Michael. I can't even watch this. Jordan gets every single call. The Ref want the League wants Jordan back in the final so badly in Chicago on my own radio station. The narrative was the league wants New York in the finals. They want the Knicks to make it so it just goes to show you the depending upon which colored glasses you're wearing everyone's nuts uth. Everyone's was my favorite. That was a very long answer to a short question. Those were my favorite memories were though series between the Bulls and the next was the most exciting competitive dramatic stuff. I've ever watched so I would like to go back once when I when I have time. I guess I guess we have more. I have more time because there are no game. I'd like to go back and watch the ninety two series in the second round where the Knicks. Take them to seven. Only one of only two seven game sevens the Bulls faced in the six title runs. Because I remember at. I haven't watched that series. Since are you remember at the time being astonished that the Knicks did that whereas in ninety three the Knicks had made a couple of changes the organizing team. They were the one seed they were ready. Ninety three was very clearly. Set Up to be if any team is going to throw in the Bulls. It's this Knicks team. Ninety two. I just remember being like what is Xavier mcdaniel doing. How is this happening? So what do you like? What the hell happened in that series and in game seven obviously the Bulls. Blow them out and it's a non game but I just remember being like how. How did this happen well? I think that was when Pat Riley. I figured out if you can't beat them beat the hell out of them and that's what they did. I mean again like the bad boy. Pistons are remembered because history is written by and four the winners at so. No one remembers those teams because they didn't win any so only the hardcore knick fans remember those teams but the reality is the victims were every bit as physical as the bad boy pistons. It's worn his dirty. The bad boy pistons were dirty. I don't care what Amick Belan beer was a dirty. They own it now. They own it. They own that they were dirty. Isaiah Thomas last week on my show. Try Khanna talkers way around that a little bit. They were dirty. The Knicks weren't as much dirty as they were they were just tough and they pat Riley new. We're not as good as them. We're certainly not as good as that. One guy is over there but I got a bunch of guys who will will just hold onto you and make them call a foul on literally every place so when you look back at this and even I haven't remembered this until I'm watching them but as we're watching these highlights I'm last and they pop up the final score. Eighty seven seventy-nine. Y- you know that's the middle of the third quarter in the NBA. Now but but that's how these games were ending so in that way like every basket matter. You know like in a way that they don't now now like a twelve point lead is nothing in the NBA. Now because that's like three trips down the floor and three threes and we're right back there in those days like an eight point run. Was the coaches calling timeout. And we have to talk to you. I think you just nailed why I think some people disliking the three is not about the three. It's a little bit about the three and end the fear of every team playing the same way and stylistic homogeneity and all that I think part of it is that for good for better or worse. The three has done exactly what you just said. It's turned games less predictable. There are more runs. And Steve. Kerr and I were talking about this before. You came on my podcast. He's watching these games and he said man. I'm watching these games. And it's just such a slug fest and it's bringing back all these memories for me. Stevenson is bringing back all these memories for for of being so stressed out for every possession and every shot and he and he said something to me. It's not an podcast. We said something like. I don't miss that. I liked today's game so much better and I think a lot of fans miss that because I think like I don't Really Watch college basketball anymore but when I watch it. That's the feel you get in college basketball and especially when the shot clock was even longer is that every single one of these possessions is critical and the NBA of the nineties. With the emphasis of the three was sort of closer to a middle ground between the NBA. Now and that feeling in college basketball and I think when when people lament the three part of it is that they lament that feeling having gone away the feeling that every possession was like a life or death matter correct. So there's two separate groups of people I think you hate the three the first as a second reference to my father in this conversation would be people I can and we can reference him all we want because no one his age knows what a podcast is anyway but the my father would always say Michael. This is not what basketball was intended to be the intention of the game. The the entire reason the way you play the sport is to pass the ball until you get the best possible shot as close to the basket as you possibly. Can this notion of trying to set up shop from as far away as you possibly can is the opposite of what the game was intended to be there? Are Those people? You're never convincing them other. Then they're the people who I think agree with what would look at it more the way you're talking about it. Is that if you watch? I love I watch college. Basketball primarily Glare Watch might tool northwestern play college basketball every time. The ball goes in the basket and feel it's an occurrence for like something important just happened and in the NBA. That just isn't the way it is and so there is a removal. Now what would you have gotten in? Its place is a level of of a graceful acrobats. That were not allowed to either. Couldn't do then or weren't able to do what they're able to do now because some would have shoved them into the second row And you're getting this this the ability to score you get guys who are six foot eleven. Who can shoot from? Were there shooting from that? They would have been like from another planet and at the time that we're talking about and sew baskets just aren't an occurrence in a game anymore. Huge dunks aren't an occurrence in a game anymore. The difference the reason Michael Jordan's dunks seems more spectacular than even a spectacular Dunkin an NBA game. Today is because there were only three of them like remember them all because they fairly few and far between there are a never ending array of plays now that would have been the biggest highlight of the season at back in nineteen ninety two and it isn't necessarily for me it isn't necessarily better or worse but it is most certainly different. Well Chris Mullin when talking about game seven in nineteen ninety eight between the Pacers and the Bulls the other game. Seven Chris Paul and gave me a great quote for that story said Scottie. Pippen just basically beat the Mark Jackson up and down the court and he's not bitter about it he's just that was. That was legal then. Scotty could do that. And they fill was really smart to put him on Mark Jackson. Just say whatever the refs let you get away with. Do that as long as you can. And the Pacers are mad about it. That's that's the way it was so ninety. Two Ninety three is we talked about that nicotine being set up to beat them. And that's the Charles Smith Smith stuffed four times in a row game. I sat on my podcast with a few weeks ago. That's one of the most consequential games in the NBA in the last thirty years. Because you said very eloquently on the show last week when I was on it matters that he three p. did twice because that separate the three peat separates him from magic and Larry and Isaiah and who and Lebron and the Spurs. It's just who never repeated. It's just a separator. And that was one of the moments when the first three peat was really really in doubt and for them to go win. That game in New York and I had forgotten that he had fifty four in game. Four to even say this is a piece putting up fifty in playoff games like once every two weeks. It's ridiculous that that game. I'm sorry for Knicks fans. I loved sue. Birds can be on the documentary last night with like. I don't care if horace grant was really the one that got dunked on starks dunked on on On Michael that game that's a top five pivotal moment in the NBA? And the last thirty years. Yeah Michael we never really saw him loose once he figures so the way this stuff used to work in the NBA. And I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know but I'm assuming there are a lot of younger people listening to this conversation who don't know and maybe are learning this in by watching last dance is it you would you would have to serve an apprenticeship like you would have to go through a little bit of time where you would work your way up and you would knock on that door and you saw the Pistons doing with the Celtics. They couldn't beat him. They couldn't beat him. They finally beat them. They became the chance the Bulls did the same thing with the Pistons work. Their way up couldn't beat them. And then eventually you in the Bulls finally beat him and they went on a run. That team. That never lost Jordan retires after ninety three. He's not there in ninety. Four only played seventeen games ninety five. He wasn't wearing the same Jersey number. He wasn't the same so in some ways. You don't look at it as laws. Then he comes back and they keep winning wins all three again and then he walked in leaves. Number comes back. It goes back as a wizard two years later. And he's forty years old and it's sort of like watching you know Frank Sinatra. When he was in his eighty s on you excited that it can still hit. Some of the notes are not expecting him to hit all of them anymore. So what we what we got to see Larry Bird loose. We got to see Magic Johnson. Lose those guys all walked off the court. Losing their last game likes Jordan walked off the court winning his last game. When last seen the Michael Jordan were actually talking about was stealing the ball from Carl Malone who is the second leading score in the history of the NBA with the kind of play. That who the hell does that. Like who fakes running on defense turns around. Come back behind him. It steals the ball in the final seconds of a championship situation. Then runs up the floor and makes that shot with his hand in the air. It's it's an uncanny command for the dramatic. It's not only that I. I haven't really watched that game the last few weeks but I believe he has six points in the final fifty seconds of that game. He has a he has a baseline drive where he draws a foul then. He has like a leaning layup and then he has the steel and the shot. So it's not even that sequences is an iconic all-time sequence but it's it's the two baskets before that they literally he literally just takes the game like Utah's ahead and Michael Just says by myself on taking the game and we win the championship and that's the two reasons that no one that I can't compare what's going on now to that. Is that guys. Keep jumping around to play together. I have no problem with it. I don't in any way begrudge them doing it God bless them. If I were in their shoes I'd probably do the same thing but what you were robbed in that as seeing the evolution of a championship team. So when when Lebron James Dwayne Wade Chris Bosh got together in Miami. They went from zero to sixty immediately. You didn't see the knocking on the door of anybody. They just went from irrelevant to in the finals in one year and then every single year and the broad and he goes to Cleveland and they're in the finals every single year and Kevin Durant goes raw Golden State and they're just going to win the championship and there isn't going to be any thing to be said about it and they obviously would right now. Be Three TIME DEFENDING CHAMPS. If they hadn't been ravaged by injury particularly with durant but in those days you would actually see the evolution of it and toward never lost so to me. It's a combination of the two three peats. Plus the fact that once he started winning we never saw him lose so every time one of the others to whom he has compared wound up. Losing and Lebron has lost a lot in the biggest box. Most of it not his fault. But that's the easiest way to say what Michael Jordan has never freaking loss. I mean no matter what happened. That guy wasn't gonNA lose and that's a very tough thing to compete against Scotts turf. Builder Triple Action has acquired the secret to building a thicker greener lawn in return. They have taken all the hard work out of the picture. That's good to give you more time to do nothing. Extra people don't realize that it's easy to get the law of their dreams by simply feeding their lawn a few times throughout the year Scotts Turf Builder Action Kills. Weeds PREVENTS CRABGRASS. Yuck and feeds to build thick green lawns with Scott's turf builder triple action. You can finally get the lawn. You've always dreamt of Scotts turf. Builder TRIPLE ACTION. Will Give your yard the nourishment. It needs to help your week thin lawn recovery. Who wants a week Finland when you feed with Scott's Builder Triple Action Multiple Times throughout your grass will be greener stronger more resilient pickup bag today? This is a scots yard. Also Scott's no-quibble money-back guarantee states. If you're not satisfied you can get your money back. That's good this is Scott Yard. Let's go back to ninety two because I want to just have the debate. Now of what is the Best Jordan Championship team and I think the debate for most people probably crystallizes between ninety two and ninety six ninety two. They sixty seven and fifteen. It's by far the best record of the I three P team. So this is the Middle Three P. teams need three peat number one Interestingly their playoff record is fifteen and seven which is the most losses of any of the six playoff teams. But if you look at the murderers row. They faced in the last three rounds of those playoffs. It's the fifty one win knicks that takes them to seven. It's fifty seven win cavs team in the conference finals and it's a sixty three win blazers team in the finals. It's an absolute murderers row and so two seven losses. We can chalk that up however you want ninety six. Obviously they go seventy two and ten. It's the only year that they rank. First in both offense and defense they have the biggest net rating in the history of the NBA. That season A little bit a couple points bigger than in ninety two. They go fifteen and three in the playoffs but they go through a forty seven when Knicks team in the second round. Sixty win magic team missing. Horace Grant Brian Shaw and then at the end of the series Nick Anderson and then Phoenix. Who was. I'm sorry and then Seattle really good then. Seattle is really good So that's that's a soft playoff run compared to ninety two so we can say and I think the ninety seventeen which goes sixty nine and thirteen is little slept on. Well take it for what? What's your what's your answer. We can get into the specifics but I think for most people. It's going to come down to ninety two and ninety six with ninety seven getting a little bit of love on the side. It's a really hard debate. It really really is. So gimme your take. I know where you fall. But let's let's spell it out. So I am a big proponent in greatest versus best so the greatest of the bulletins is ninety sixteen they should have been fifteen and they went up three nothing on Seattle in those finals. I don't I don't I have no recollection of how the hell Seattle won two games. But I can tell you. They were meaningless. Not One person in your obviously old enough to remember this not one person in or outside of Chicago thought for a second. They weren't going to win zero. Pto They could easily have been fifteen in one in those playoffs. And you gotta give them their due. They went seventy two. Ten Jordan was so motivated. Rodman was so re energized by being in this situation. They're the greatest but the ninety two team to me would beat them so makes them the best if you took an if you could somehow magically have and some of the people are the same. I mean the coaches the same Jordan and pippen are the same people but if you could have the ninety two team play the ninety sixty I would bet on the ninety two team. And here's why there are few reasons but the single biggest reason is this when he came back from playing baseball. So Ninety. Six Ninety. Seven to ninety eight for those championships. Michael Jordan was the best player in the NBA. And there was no question of the first peat. Michael Jordan was the greatest player that ever lived. He was better than than he was when he came back if only because he was younger and any number of other reasons he was more physically dynamic he learned a lot of things he had a lot of little tricks of the trade that he had developed over the course of of years that he used in ninety six ninety seven hundred posted up a lot more. He played the game a little differently. This is by no means to take anything away from him. He remained the best player in the NBA. But the best player I've ever seen in my life was Jordan at ninety one ninety. Two Ninety three he was ridiculous and he alone would have won that series. If they'd played each other of somehow that were possible. So I would start with that. The second is and I'm so glad he said this. I Charles Barkley on get up and I asked him about this and he said Horace Grant was tougher to beat the Dennis Rodman. Now I didn't have the guts I was on another podcast here with with Stugatz a couple of weeks ago before the started airing to preview it and I said look when push comes to shove I guess you have to give. Rodman has do as being better than Harris even though there was it hurt me to say because I liked horace grant so much when I covered him and I think he was so overlooked and got Robin got disproportionate attention in the in the positive and I think horace got disproportionate attention in the negative to the detriment. But I think Horace Grant did a lot of things on the floor of the Dennis Rodman did not so and and the the the pieces they moved in around them You know who were sort of interchangeable over the course of time Paxton and Kerr and Longley Wennington versus cartwright purdue a lot of that I'm going to call a wash if only because it's kind of hard to remember which ones you really think are better so if based only on the fact that Mike in one thousand nine hundred to Michael Jordan was the single best basketball player that ever live. I'll take that team in series against the other one solely for that reason so horace grant at his peak was like fourteen and ten guy who who was a really smart player. In the triangle new spots knew how to cut really good defensive player. So I get I get that I get all that and you're absolutely right about Michael Michael. Ninety one to ninety three is like just on another planet. He's a different species of player. He goes in the lane and jumps and just the world stops. There's just there's just nothing. There's nothing anybody can do like. These are the best player. Clyde Drexler Terry. Puerto everyone to put on them. They just look like Lilliputians on the ground and this person is soaring above them. He's just on another planet so a lot of this ninety two versus ninety-six argument to me just comes down. To how much do you value other planet other species Michael Jordan versus just the best of a normal species Michael Jordan because the horace versus Dennis argument is a little reductive to me because it's not just hordes versus Dennis. I think the ninety six team is actually deeper. And I because Horace Grant really when you become Dennis Rodman but also becomes Toni Kukoc. Tony Cuco becomes the thirteen fourteen points a game score with much more long range shooting much more playmaking and you have Rodman in that role and I kinda like I. I liked the versatility and complementary skill sets of the Ron Harper Steve Kerr Guard platoon whereas bj Armstrong and Paxton are kind of this are similar. Guys they're outside shooters who are kind of liabilities on defensive. They were pests. I like that. They could go like when they had Harper Jordan. Pippen Rodman on the floor. You couldn't do anything I on offense us. You couldn't score them so I think that team is a little bit deeper. I also think they're a little bit more modern and versatile like when they put Kerr Jordan Pippen Rodman Cuco so Rodman's playing center that teams in one thousand. Nine hundred ninety eight were like. Wow what what the hell is going on here whereas you look at ninety two. They're playing like cartwright and Scott Williams together they're playing Horace Grant Cliff Levingston and cartwright together they were just all in on being an old school huge giant team whereas the ninety six team I think is a little bit deeper and could go stylistically a little bit differently but but Mj was on another universe. It from another universe in the first one and Scotty was a little bit younger too so I can see the other thing about ninety six. It's interesting to me. And Simmons brings us up all the time expansion season. So the seventy two wins is a little bit diluted. That's the year the Raptors Grizzlies. Come in so there's more easy pickings. It's a week League weekly on the flip side people. Just there's so much analysis of this time in the NBA and people forget for three seasons from ninety five to ninety seven. They moved the three point line in and it like dramatically changed the game. So if you look at Michael and Scotties stats like Something like thirty five to forty percent of Michael's made three pointers. Come in two seasons and Scotty similarly. It's like a disproportionate about the NBA. In effect gave them a weapon that they didn't have by moving the three-point line in a couple of feet. And I think that compensates a little bit for the aging and declined athleticism. Like one hundred. Three's two seasons in a row in ninety two. He made twenty-seven threes. And if you watch game one of that finals which is the shrug game. Winning six three and a half marv Albert is like astonished that he's even shooting threes. Clyde Drexler is defending Michael Jordan than that game like teams defend. Ben Simmons. Now it's like you just go ahead buddy. Go ahead insurance. It's insane so I think that moving the three point line in gave Michael and Scotty a tool. That wasn't really in their toolbox which which made the boat which made the ninety six balls a little bit more verse not versatile but just as another thing they could do. You're making a very interesting case. I someone who I have not seen practically any of in the last and so far was one of my favorite people to be around during those that those runs. Everyone talks about tax winter because of the triangle offense they had an assistant coach named Johnny Bach who is an NBA life. H was his name and he was around the league. For trillion years and tax was the offense and Bach was the defense and when he would put Jordan Pippen Rodman and Harper on the floor. He called at the Doberman overnight sense and and they would go out there and they will just attack you and that's something. I really have not thought a lot about you. Know here's what I would say. Zach is that sometimes you emotion gets involved. I will admit that in ninety six ninety eight ninety five ninety sixteen I was put off by the Rodman Thing Rodman. I felt came in there. He became such a sensation in town. Like I'll tell you a very quick story about it. I don't know how will you know Chicago. But they have these expressways four primary expressway your way of getting in and out of the city and downtown when you're driving down the the expressway to get in from the northern suburbs and so the downtown area in Chicago called the loop which is where I live. There was this huge mural that let off to the side and they painted this huge mural Dennis Rodman and it was stopping traffic. People were stopping their cars getting out on the on the expressway stopping and taking pictures of the Dennis Rodman mural like I don't know if these were tourists or what it was but they like they have to send police there to keep moving traffic along and eventually had to take the mural down because it was actually impacting traffic and there was a part of me that felt and again I was there I was covering it. That Rodman was getting a people. Were acting like this was now. Rodman's team no one really knew what they were talking about. But I don't mean to say people thought Rodman's now the better player than Jordan and whatever senior basketball game thought that but people were so fascinated by him and loved him in this. Those always a part of the connor rubbed me the wrong way because I just found him to be such an attention seeking A person like like like she cared much more about being famous and promoting himself then he cared about winning. Anybody set now. It doesn't mean he wasn't a great player absolutely a great player. And you've seen pretty good stuff that episode three. I think it was which everyone was where they really talk a lot about smart he was he was a tremendous player. I take nothing away from him but boy did he sucked the air out of a room and and it was all about dense and I think something about that has always kind of rubbed me the wrong way which is why. I've always wanted to stick up for harassed grant who was a great a great player. Be a great teammate. Who who felt as though he didn't get nearly enough attention and credit for what they were achieving but didn't behave himself away dentist or to try and get all of that attention and I think there's always been a part of me that is like that better but you know I'd forgotten the one that the one I forgot. Really Harper Harper is an incredibly important part of that second team. Because there's no way to compare what John Paxson. Bj Armstrong did to what Ron Harper was able to do. If you want to say Paxon incur kind of a each other out. As just outstanding outside shooters occur as a better fewer shooter than Paxson was taxing. It a bunch of very big shots particularly in the first championship series and the third one. He makes the famous one to beat Phoenix. But I'd forgotten about Harper Harper Harper Harper presence. Kind of skews. This a little bit. You're making me rethink this. I'm I stand on my on my pick because I refuse not to based upon my personal feelings but you're kind of talking me out of it. Well I think I think I think ninety two probably wins in Opole if you pulled like a thousand people who around the NBA? Then I think the ninety two team probably wins also in this theoretical game if it's one game for all the marbles or whatever you just play all your best players forty six minutes so you're stacy kings and your Scott William although Scott Williams talk about a guy. I'm rewatching always all games. That dude was constantly doing helpful stuff you might do. I see why Phil liked him. He's just coming into games. Like there's offense rebound here put back here. A little short jumper. He was in the right place doing the right stuff all the time. So I think ninety two probably wins in a poll just for the reason of forty five minutes of other universe Jordan and forty five minutes. Prime Athletic Pippen is just. It's it's something you can't do anything with. I just ninety six to me. The seventy two wins matters the fact that they the seventy two wins matters the fact that they destroyed everyone in the playoffs even if it was a soft playoff run until the Sonics won the two meaningless games not it's meaningless a strong. I apologize to the people. But you're right. There's once it's three. Oh No one. In the universe six is is a series anymore And I just the coup coached by the way Ku coach. Better be in this documentary as something other than like dude. Who got picked on in the Olympics because coach was a six man of the year? Michael Scottie both grew to love him and I just think his playmaking shooting size element is something that original team didn't have like the guys coming off the bench for that ninety. Two Team are essentially all big guys and another guard and another little guard. It's just all a bunch of losers. They didn't have anyone like coach. So I'm like I. Because of the seventy two and the versatility. I might lean a little ninety six but I bet ninety two wins an appeal and about Rodman. The ninety seven team that went sixty nine and thirteen fifteen and four in the playoffs. They beat a fifty six. Win Hawks team a sixty one win. Heat team and sixty four win. Utah team who are second fourth and fifth in net rating in the NBA. That you're that is a murderer's row. But the primary argument against them. If there is one is that Rodman checked out in the ninety seven plant was not nearly the same guys. He wasn't ninety six ninety eight but that was sixty nine thirteen. That's one L. of team. Which was the year that Robyn? I'm doing all of this. I thought my head which was the year that Rodman kicked cameraman in in the Ding and wound up being suspended for a significant period of time. Not The famous not the trip to Vegas but but he got suspended for a significant stretch of time she he was. He was always a person who is right now. That was that one. I think. That's that's the point. I was going to feel like that might have sort of carried over into that because it was. If you remember the play is one of these camera guys who were literally on the court shooting the game in his. He's in a very very vulnerable position. He's like squatted down his legs or apart and Rodman sort of falls into him and may have slight. You know it might have heard a little bit. The certainly no one else does fall and he just kicked him right in a crowded area and he got suspended Fordham Significantly deserved it. Rodman was just. He was a he was a pain in the neck. I've found it to be a pain in the neck and that actually brings me to something else. I wanted to talk about with you briefly. I gave some thought its Zack. Wants to be on the PODCAST. What can I tell him? I have come if there's one thing I've come to believe watching the last dance. It is that Phil Jackson is under appreciated as a coach Phil Jackson. I can tell you was under appreciated. Then fill people in town to not a show. I work for the All sports radio station. We were just take calls all day long talking about the balls. That was basically five months of programming three years in a row. Nonstop calls calls calls called. Phil would not come on station. Because he felt that he was constantly being disrespected. That people were constantly callers and the hosts were constantly disrespected him. Basically what the suggestion that the Bulls were a product of Michael Jordan's greatness and that anyone could roll the ball out there that they had thrown Doug Collins out the door right when he would have gotten them there anyway and Doug was figuring town that a lot of people liked and And that they fill got this job and Phil was just lucky to be in the right place at the right time. And he had these legendary experienced assistant coaches. We just talked about in text winner and Johnny Bach and Phil did not get a lot of credit and as I watch this thing and you look at the look at how hard it is to keep the great teams together like no one does it. It's impossible to do and with with all of the insanity that surrounded that group and they really were like the Beatles some of the stuff that he did it. Work just can't argue it. It worked and the best example of it ever is the vacation that he gives Rodman in the middle of A. Who The hell does that? Who The hell says to a player? Yeah you need you know a long weekend in the middle of the season to go to Vegas with Common Electra. And just and just engage in nonstop debauchery. And then just come on back and hopefully with your head cleared and ready to play. No one would do that but Phil Jackson figured out that he needed to do that. I think Phil's finger on the pulse of that group Sort of hand in hand with Michael's leadership Are The reason they would've won some championships anyway. But they wouldn't have one every one of them at fill is a big part of the reason. They won every one of them. Well it's not just giving Rodman the vacation. It's knowing your other the other players on the team well enough to know that this is not going to fracture the team that there won't be so much bitterness about well. Why is this guy getting to do this? And I don't get to do this and you know you see Michael's annoyed. I'd like vacation how anyone does vacation as me. That's what he says in the duck but knowing that the the group will be able to do that the Phil thing is interesting because a lot of it comes down to how synonymous with the triangle. And you know I was at van Gundy Riley. They called him big chief triangle. You know everyone sort of made fun of the Triangle. Because you know is it the triangle or is it. Michael Scott is at triangle or is it shack and coby well. Obviously it's the players. The players make the system. But I I do and people WANNA reimagined dislike. Well what if you just let Michael Run fifty pick and rolls a game with shooting around him and you see glimpses of it particularly in some of the Finals Games? I was watching. You'll see him. He knows every pass out pick and roll. He knows how to play that way. I do think the mythology of changing Michael's game in elevating his teammates is is a is a big part of the Bulls journeys a why they won. Maybe it helped. I bet it helped Ed. I do think there's something to everyone. Involved on offense motivates them to play defense. That's the thing that coaches and players tell you a lot even if I'm just moving and cutting and touching the ball and passing it over here I'm a part of it. I'm not just standing around like PJ. Tucker in the corner. I'm part of it. And that makes me motivated to play on the other end but the game back then was also just not. The triangle was a very effective offense for the way. The game was back. Then by which I mean. Everyone's playing traditional big men three or four guys who can't shoot threes there just isn't anything equivalent to the current spacing of the court and in that era the triangle. I think was an effective way to play but I think a lot of the reason. Why maybe you're right about Philip? Being under appreciated is. I'm not sure if that's true. But if you have that opinion I think a lot of it is fill in. The triangle just became so synonymous that the analysis of Phil Jackson is. A coach was only about the triangle. What are the triangle was overblown or or a real thing or not not about all of this other stuff and even last night in the duck. Michael goes to play golf with Ron Harper. And he's like Phil Phil knows. We need another coach practice today. But Phil's letting US play golf and blow off some CNN if you're talking about keeping teams together you're right that we've seen them all fall apart due to age or egos or I get sick of this coach or this coach. Get Sick of me. The Bulls fell apart because management. And not just Jerry Krause Jerry. Reinsdorf is getting a total pass during this whole documentary because krause is a slummy looking dude with a cantankerous personality so he's easy to blame management. Decided we're done with this team and I said this I'm up one of my podcasts. Recently I do think you know Michael was thirty five. Dennis was thirty seven. I think they're getting up there. Scotties thirty three but Kevin Pelton. I think has a piece coming out this week. On Dot com projecting what a healthy bulls team would have been able to do in nineteen ninety nine. Had Michael Not cut his finger. Cut BURT HIS FINGER. Cutting a cigar. Which by the way that's insane to? He had a cigar cutting injury and then he retired and his conclusion is they. Were probably going to be a sixty one team again that year. And if I do think there is something to you. Just play it out until you lose like Michael. Said you just the honor of being a champion. You just get to play it out until you lose. And I do think it's not hyperbole to suggest that the Jerry's Kinda dishonored the tradition of what a championship team is supposed to be allowed to do. I don't disagree with that. I will say however the degree to which they became iconic and legendary might in the long run have been fuelled by them having been broken up in voluntarily and before their time before they lost before they lost. I mean again. We never saw them lose so when our minds. I I'M GONNA make a ridiculous analogy. But in your mind's eye like John Lennon who my personal favorite musical artist of all time. We'll always be young and he will always have just written all those songs and we will never get to see what his life would have been better. Of course it's not better. It is a freaking horrific tragedy. One of the greatest ones in the history of of the entertainment genre that John Lennon was assassinated when he was forty years old. But the the result of it is that you have no other image of him never existed. We never saw Michael Jordan's teams lose. We never saw them lose the NBA also went entirely different direction after that. So they could. I'm doing this from memory. But they couldn't have won sixty games in one thousand nine hundred axiom and play sixty games the equivalent of the equivalent over sixty wind pace but like that season will always have like a little bit of a weird asterisk to it right like like. I remember Phil. Jackson would always kind of downplay that when his he started winning with the Lakers the next year he would always kind of say well that one year. But that didn't really can't like there's something in its own way if all this stuff is just a story anyway if all this stuff is just some gigantic piece of dramatic Entertainment than having this unusual a ending with these perfectly written perfectly cast villains is is sort of a nice way to end it. Nobody ever beat Michael Jordan. They took it away from. They didn't let them keep going and didn't let 'em keep trying and the same can be said of fill to fill contributed to that also. Because I think Phil. One hundred percent United his players against the common enemy. That was Jerry. Krause and I think that's one of the reasons they cross hated sell so much is that Phil was fueling the Anti Jerry sentiment amongst the players not not I think maliciously but because I think he recognized it as a way of uniting them against the common enemy or in a common cause and that's the oldest trick in the book I think Phil Use it effectively and I think that more than anything was the root of the discord between those two guys. I think Jerry's feeling was. I gave you this like you were coaching the Albany protrudes CBA. I put you on this bench. I gave you the head coaching job when Doug Collins was obviously doing great and we were on a positive trajectory Here you are now. This is your big triangle. And now you're telling your sort of secretly sowing the seeds of discord in these guys disrespect me in front of me. Call me crumbs to my face on the bus and not do anything about it. You know that's That's not great co-parenting and I think it's a look at it. That way like Jerry Crafts. I think I think he had. He had a point there but to go back to Phil. One of the reasons. I think that we associated feels so much of the triangle is a little bit of not revisionist history. But the triangle doesn't work anymore for all the reasons you just described and Phil came to New York and a very high profile way and refuse to acknowledge it and made everything about the tribal so the triangle was not a dirty word in the NBA when it was winning championships the Triangle won eleven championships in the NBA In a span of whatever that wound up being fourteen years whatever it was so the triangle was not a negative thing. It was a perfect thing for what it was. It was of its time. An Avocado era and the game has changed. There's no reason to discredit what Phil did. Then because they were running the triangle it was the perfect offense for its era and for its talent the reason we look on it so negatively at least in part III is because he tried to jam it down the throat of absolutely everyone in New York in and outside of the Knicks Organization and it wound up being his undoing there and set back that franchise and just generally made a lot of people cranky for e commerce business shipping in two days or less is the new standard as a growing business. How can you keep up introducing Shipu your businesses new secret weapon? Schipol is the only shipping software for growing businesses. You can start today. Set up in minutes and ship today because they should. Hundreds of millions of packages shiploads volume discounts. Save you up to ninety percent of carrier rates simply connect your online store to ship. 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Go right now and get your shipping consultation and ship pro plan six month trial for free at GO SCHIPOL DOT com slash low. Let me ask you this because you were there. I was texting with a friend of mine in basketball. Who's about my age last? And she was saying I don't remember the gambling thing being something that my friends and I talked about when it was happening and I said same with me. I was fifteen. Media was different than I wasn't reading Dave Anderson regularly in the New York Times. Maybe I just don't remember it being something. My buddies and I talked about at the time. We talked about the finals. We talked about the Nixon Bulls returned about all the basketball stuff. I don't remember the gambling penetrating our discussion. So I'm I obviously I know about it now. I've read about it. I know all about it but I just for someone who's now is working in the media that time covering that team. Obviously it was a big deal. He stops talking to you. There's all this talk in the documentary about whether his reputation is tarnished. I actually don't think it's tarnished at all. I think People Kinda find the gambling thing charming. I mean. They don't know the stories of the wise guys. He's losing money to all the trials stuff. Like when you're in the media then and you're talking about with your colleagues in your talking with people in the Bulls and you hear David Stern talking about it. How big of a crisis was it? Was there a sense that like the sky actually could befalling here or was it something that you could shove? Aside and focus on the basketball there are and continue to be people whose opinions I value. Who believe Michael Jordan was suspended from the NBA? And that's why he left after ninety three because of the gambling. I don't even like saying this next part out loud but it is a fact that there are people who in public not behind closed doors but on air waves at the time speculated as to whether or not his gambling with part of the reason is father was killed. Those are facts. Those things happen. Those things were said they were wondered aloud. I myself do not believe that. I believe that Michael Jordan in ninety three after having won the title of ninety one one and again in ninety two didn't want go to the Olympics but it was the Dream Team the NBA. And Mike. You were never going to let him go so he wanted to. Spending his whole summer playing again in ninety two and comes back and wins it again and grueling fashion in ninety three I believe he was fried emotionally. Psychologically mentally physically and otherwise. His father than is tragically and purely coincidentally killed in a random act of violence and robbery and the combination of those things caused him. Michael to just come apart Mentally and he just decides. I can't deal with it and and he needs to get away and he needed that period of time away. That's what I've always believed in barring someone showing me some evidence to the contrary I will always believe. But if you're asking me how big a deal was the gambling. It was big enough that there were people who it was not. It was not whispered. It was something people would openly talk about. Do you believe Michael Jordan was suspended surreptitiously by the NBA by David Stern because of gambling and because of connection to unsavory people and is it possible that connection to unsavory people was connected to his father's murder so I think that's the best answer I can give you a these were not just crackpot theorist like people saying? Oh you know the League wants to make sure they win so so they've bought the rafts like this was this was stopped. That people genuinely believed So I don't think you could be a bigger deal than that. I'm just saying pre- preretirement so during those playoff series when it comes out so it's a crisis then it's a crisis like in that moment. It's something that is is is a huge part of the discussion. Let's be clear on what we're talking about. The Dave Anderson Column was written about Michael Jordan going to Atlantic city. That's true it's it does the night before a game and apparently was there until some very very late hour of the morning now in the documentary. Recently whenever this episode aired I remember Michael? Saying he was back in his hotel by like two. I am or something. I don't believe that to be true. I I believe again. I'm doing so much of this memory. But at least I believe the way Dave Anderson wrote it. He was gambling there until like four in. That column was really that the narrative that emerged from that was less about Jordan's gambling and his connection to unsavory characters. Then it was to his commitment than it was the notion that he led his team down and let everybody else down by doing that. And that's what made him mad and that's why he stopped speaking to the media. It wasn't because of the gamble it wasn't because of Richard is Queen as or or the millions of dollars was supposedly losing on the golf course and other places all the time because that's not stop people really knew maybe there was some people who knew it but I didn't know that is not something that was commonly talked about on the radio and it was not something that people I talk to regularly inside or outside of the sports media. We're talking about regularly. So that became a bigger deal when he retired at least to my in my consciousness the prior to that the big big big deal that that David Anderson wrote about. I interpreted as Michael. Feeling that his his integrity as a player as a champion as a competitor was being assailed the other thing. That's a little a little too convenient in the telling for me. Now is the level of plausible deniability. That both Michael Jordan and Rod. Thorn have given themselves in discussing. Why Isaiah Thomas was left off the Dream Team. So they do it. They have the recount. The conversation last night's episode and Rod Thorn Calls Michaels. They were doing the Dream Team. Michael says who's playing who's playing who's playing playing and Rod says will the guy you're referring to is not going to be playing so Michael had Michael Gets to say. Well I never brought up. All I did was asked who was playing. His name was never mentioned. And then this thing was that seems a little too. I'm just because I don't know what happened. But that seems a little too convenient to me. There's zero question but that Michael Jordan and Scottie. Pippen did not want Isaiah on the Dream Team. And thus he wasn't. There is zero question in my mind of that. No one will ever convince me otherwise and I will say this. I do have a problem with because you can love or hate. Isaiah Thomas all you want. And he's another one who through the is now of more. Recent history. Looks totally different right. Because his post playing career has been filled with a variety of I guess for lack of a more poetic phrase of failures and then obviously the terrible situation that took place in the front office with the Knicks. None of that had happened in one thousand nine hundred ninety two when they were making those decisions Isaiah. Thomas in my view was one hundred percent of the stature and closer to his prime they Larry. Bird was to have been a part of that team and deserves to have been a part of that team. Leaving him off at team because of personality dispute or dislike or. Whatever it is in my opinion is really not fair that team even then everyone knew that team meant something and that it was always going to be something that the people who were on that team would always be remembered as having been dream teamers first and foremost. I mean you look at that picture of that thing is. There's no more conic photo in sports. It is the greatest team and most important team in the history of organized sports and to leave Isaiah off because he froze Jordan. Outta the All Star game in one thousand nine hundred eighty four which I think is what made Michael really upset. He was much more about that than it was about a handshake in ninety one thing. I think it was that that's where it began and I think that's where the seeds of that dislike. Were sewn I think it is unfair because whether you can hate Isaiah Thomas all you want. But he was an unbelievably great player. He was absolutely of a stature with all of the players on that team and historical greatness in my opinion and He deserved he does by the way as tough as they calm and not just in the sense of part of the bad boys and they're all talk in the sense of play through injury. Go at anyone. His game. Six in the eighty eight finals on one ankle is one of the Great all-time big spotlight performances in the NBA. I've said this before and I respect your opinion greatly. I would love to hear your answer if you separate the NBA into a variety of categories in one of them is the little man. So you've got the truly little guy so I'm not comparing Isaiah Thomas to even though they both play guard. I'm not comparing Isaiah Thomas to Magic Johnson or to Jason Kidd or people like that. I'm talking about the guys who were six feet tall and under something like that. So something in that neighborhood. So that would include now and Steph. Curry is taller than that. But I'll even put him in the discussion Steph Curry. Alan Iverson Steve Nash. John Stockton tiny archibald who am. I forgetting Jerry JERRY SIX TO JERRY. West was six two but played a little bigger than the bigger. I don't think of him Eliza when I looked up his height the other day. Wow He's six six two. It seems seems like six five to me somehow of all of them that I saw so west is before my time but of all of them that I saw I would take Isaiah Thomas over any of them. I would take Isaiah over any of those players you. It's impossible to compare errors. Steph is doing stuff now that no one has ever done in the history of the game. I get that Nash was the MVP the League in consecutive years. I get that. Iverson is a beloved figure for a variety of very very legitimate reasons. He there was something aura about him. That may be no other player. I can ever but if your objective when you step foot on a basketball court is to win I would take Zeya Thomas. You can have whichever one of them you want and my team is going to be. I think curry his already passed him. And I hear what? You're saying about eras and skill sets and all that. I just think I think curry has already passed. But yeah no Prime Isaiah and like he had. He had his traumatic injury. Achilles stare at the end of his career careers kind of cut short. He had left it by age thirty two he was. We never got a late. Prime Isaiah Thomas. Really and I think that affects the way people remember. I mean even by ninety two when the Dream Team is happening. He's on the severe downslope move his career Like think John Stockton at that point was probably better than is area. But that's just because of where Isaiah was in his career path but got Prime Isaiah from you know early eighties. To Ninety was as good as any little guy too. Here's the thing. I I know that everyone listening to this is gonNA lose their minds. I'm not suggesting that Isaiah Thomas is better than what I'm saying. Is that Steph? Curry is playing in a different sport to compare that Jerome's F curry is playing his eyes to the game. Isaiah Thomas played at his size is an unreasonable comparison. I mean for folks who are watching the last answer seeing what I'm talking about. That was an era where everyone was a foot taller than he was where everyone was playing in a compress little area down by the paint when Isaiah Thomas started playing in the NBA. The three point shot didn't exist so he didn't grow up taking threes. You never learned to shoot a three because it wasn't such thing as a three so if Thomas had played at a time. I'm not suggesting it would have been his greatest. The shooter is Steph Steph. Curry is in arguably the greatest shooter of the basketball that I've ever seen and and probably that has ever live but Isaiah Thomas didn't ever try to be that that there wasn't on the list of options because it didn't exist what year that was the three-point come in the NBA. Eighty three eighty four. Something like that. They started shooting and seven. I think seventy nine to eighty off the top of my head. I think eighty an NBA about okay. Then he made up by one year so so. He wanted the College Basketball Championship and eighty-one either way. By point does he did not grow up learning to play basketball In order to try and shoot threes. And if you just look at the totality of his game and being the best player teams that won two championships in a row plus a national championship in college. Plus as you pointed out his greatest performance was in a series. They lost to a LAKER team. That had magic Johnson Kareem abdul-jabbar James Worthy and Boy Madera teams of all time. Boy Do people forget how people outside of Detroit forget how close they were to win that series and how close they were to three repeating? And then you're talking about then you're in a different stratosphere ahead. There were three games to two. They could have won that game sex again. He's playing on one foot people. Forget how about the game. He played against the Knicks. And Joe. Louis Arena in game five of a best of five. Where where did you score? Sixteen points in the last ninety seconds to send that game to overtime we're Bernard King and the Knicks ultimately wanted. I can still see hubris shirts the short sleeve shirt cutting. It was like two hundred degrees. Joe Louis Arena but but Isaiah. He's I think he is under appreciated. And this is another one where I think people allow the things that have happened after his career to impact the way we remember him like the Isaiah Thomas who was involved with the failure of the C. B. A. and the failure with the Nixon all the other things that have happened. Have nothing to do with the SAS Thomas who is a great basketball player and as a great player. I believe he has under appreciate well. This is too long of a discussion. Get into now at the end of this year but during his career he also there were a couple high profile incidents of Isaiah shooting himself in the foot number one was walking off the court without shaking hands. Which you can I said last week I actually think too too much is made of that. I didn't mind that at the time I kind of. Don't mind it now. A little kid me thought it was actually kind of cool because I mad loser in a spiteful luzern all that anyway so I kind of liked it. The other one that I for some reason is not really come much. Ammonia Jones is talking about. It is when he called when he said. Larry Bird would just be another guy if he was black. And I think that that If you go back and look I mean I had to do like a whole pr tour to try to get out of that. Including a press conference with Larry Bird at the one thousand nine hundred seven finals were Larry's wearing a disgusting trucker's hat and it's like dude. Can you at least take off the hat for the press? Conference that that heats. They're just. They're just as enough stuff from his playing career where it's like you didn't you. Didn't a half to shoot yourself in the foot that way but I as a player. There's just no. There's no question that he he probably belonged on the Dream Team and look back to back. Titles when you're talking about six titles in eight years and and the warriors winning three and five years whatever. It doesn't seem like much. The warriors repeated wants with an incredible assemblage of talent spurs did not repeat ever the heat repeated once and then dismantled after a while. It's hard to win two in a row and they were a truly great team that won two in a row and the warriors only repeated because they brought in the second best player in the League To join a team that was already in the finals And I'll say this to what is said about Larry. Bird's obviously it was a terrible thing to say as nothing to do with how good a player he was or wasn't you know what I mean like all these things the fact I think the bottom line of it is most people. Don't like Thomas. I say that with no rooting interest in at one way or the other. I barely know as Thomas doesn't make any difference. Mu People like him or not but it just bothers me that I hear him left out of conversations like let-let's even let's even say Okay Steph. Curry is passed him. Fair Curry has changed the sport forever. Let's give him that. I used to have this conversation on the Mike and Mike before Steph. Curry was Steph curry with Davidson. When I was having these conversations and people will be telling me Iverson was better than Isaiah. Thomas and I kept saying to those people. Did you watch Isaiah Thomas Now? Completely hijackers podcast. You're like I've taken away from where he wants to go. But sometimes I think people talk about how Isaiah Thomas Played. Didn't see as a Thomas play but if you watch these player he was unquestionably the best player. The bad boy pistons who were an all time. Great Team who? Who repeated time when repeating was all anyone ever did did not have another hall of. Famer in the big room so Joe Dumars in the hall of fame then. He deserves to be in the hall of fame. He was a terrific player but Joe dumars was at no point one of the six or seven best players in the league right. No the great teams in that era all had that I mean the the Bird Celtics and the Lakers. With massacring did and Michael had Scottie and Isaiah Thomas the next best player on that team was Joe Dumont and he was a terrific player. I'm not taking anything away from that. I believe he is in the hall of fame listening. I feel a little margin but but he's not someone he's not a player on that I'm not diminish again. He was probably the guard Jordan. Tougher than anybody guarded. Jordan news a fabulous player of the MVP of the finals. One year is great. But he wasn't Scottie Pippen and it wasn't he damn sure wasn't Kareem or magic. Whoever you WANNA put second there wasn't Kevin Mchale so like I say did it without a one of those guys on his team at a time when the eastern conference was a yet to play at Julius Erving and Moses Malone Money I gets there and then he's gotTa deal with bird and then he's gotTa deal with Jordan. I think Isaiah I think he gets the short end of the of the historical comparisons but by the way suit brought up bird celtics. They never repeated either. I mean re- winning two consecutive championships back then was like it was a huge deal when the Lakers did it right in the eighties. It was a huge deal and it says you know what you say. You didn't watch Thomas. It's just sort of a natural thing like if you're if you're born at a certain time you didn't watch certain players and so I I know that I know an agent in the NBA. Who because of the last dance sent all of his players An iconic Jordan game to watch all of his current clients and Date had never watched a full Michael Jordan game. Because you don't. It's not something you really do right. It's not something that you like. I'M GONNA sit down tonight and I'm going to watch game to start to finish of the one thousand nine hundred finals. Let me look at you. Watch you watch. Highlights you watch a couple of the last couple of minutes like they. Literally these are star players. Like I've never seen Michael Jordan. Play a full game from start to finish just sort of. That's that's how life is you. Don't you don't watch. I've never seen. Maybe I saw an Oscar Robertson game at some point when I'm doing a deep dive but I don't think I've ever seen Oscar Robertson play like an actual full NBA game you've seen Wilt Chamberlain play a full NBA game. No probably not I mean I. I remember him when I was a very little kid at the very end of his career. But no certainly not nothing even remotely close to his prime. I guess I would end my Soliloquy on Isaiah with this when people talk about the best players in the NBA in the eighties. And you don't have to have watched in the NBA in the Eighties. Old enough to know the eighties were in my opinion. A glorious era of basketball I do not in any way accept the idea that basketball is better now than it was. Then it's different. It's not worse but it's not better either. When people talk about the greatest players in the eighties I feel like they say Magic Larry and Julius erving and they leave out is eight. And I'm here to tell you Isaiah. Thomas belongs in that discussion with those guys and then there's Kareem in there. Were A if you want to start arguing over a handful of other people we can Kareem. I still think is best years really. Were in the seventies but that's neither here nor there Isaiah Thomas I think I thought of him as a kid learning in watching the game that he was that good and He won a championship in college as the best player on his team he won two. Nba Championships as the unquestioned. Best Player on his team. I think he deserves to be remembered in a Pantheon of players that he is always excluded from and maybe the primary reason is that people didn't like that's well put and I'll leave it there. I think that's I think that's really might give him a more than enough of your time. Obviously everybody knows they can watch you every morning. Get up. Which is I. Think one of the great success stories in our company and on TV in the last three or four years I love going on. I love watching in the morning. I really appreciate you coming on. And let's do it again soon sometime. We love having you but wait. I didn't get to say the thing I'm most wanted to say. And that is could so you said to me when we were texting the Michael Versus Lebron say. Oh boy here we go. This is this is a big deal in my house. Okay so my son has. I think I told you is seventeen. And He loves Lebron James and he loves the NBA. And he's a little bit also. He's a a product of this era. Where I think people fans are less attached to teams than they already individual players which is a huge difference from my childhood so as a kid growing up in New York when I did I hated all the great players on other teams because they were the enemy. Now you know people go to the garden to see Steph curry come to town and to see. Lebron James comes out. That's we never looked at it that way. I didn't I was going to the game to see the next did matter. They were play. Some of the Games were better than others. They're playing good teams but that was never the intention that's it. Here's my son said to me the other night as we're watching the show. What is it Michael? Jordan was better than Lebron. Like Lebron is bigger stronger. He's probably just as fast and is probably a better passer. He's got any number of things about him that if you just lining them up skill set by skillset. Lebron probably checks more boxes than Michael Dots. And I really can't argue with that but here's what I would say and maybe you just have to have seen it but if I were to ask you if there was one game of basketball being played and your life depended upon the outcome who would be the first player you would choose Michael still like. It's it and I think in a private moment so would Lebron. I think Lebron would take him. I think anyone saw would take it. And ultimately the objective of playing a basketball game is to win it and no one just one it like that guy did and I can't put it better than that and it isn't about who was a better shooter and who was it was about when when when when it came time to win a game. Michael Jordan was going to win it and part of that is because I never saw him not I never saw him not do it. And and that goes back to what we were saying a little while ago about how we never saw that team dethrone. So that would be my aunts. Is that Lebron? James can do things. Michael Jordan couldn't do that. No one else I've ever seen could and I would put Lebron James as the second best player I've ever said but I will take Michael to break the tie because if they were playing one game in my life depended upon the outcome. I would take him for sure and I would feel very very comfortable. I think when it's all when it's all said and done Lebron is GonNa have passed him. Statistically already has in most major categories obviously the game is totally different now versus when Michael played and and has been that way for almost the entirety of Lebron's career I would you ask. What was Michael Better at? I think there's an argument to be made that it would. There's an argument to be made that at their absolute apex is. Michael was a better defensive player. I'm not sure if that's true because I haven't thought it out yet and Lebron is obviously bigger and can offer a degree of rim protection. That Michael couldn't although Michael Shop lacking numbers for Guard. Were out of this world at that time and you see the highlights in the last dance. A lot of them are blocks swipes and all that new lebrons most iconic play is a defensive play But Michael as a as a one on one defender and just an all around pets. Maybe you could argue. Maybe it was better. He was he was just better at scoring. I think if you want if you want to hang your hat on one thing. The little bronze already passed him in points. You know I think right and and we're will And and he's Ashton. Yeah you pass them So I guess technically you could argue Lebron better score but Lebron is ahead of them in minutes played. Always play a lot more minutes. Michael Average thirty seven thirty five. You know he's just a better score one on one score and I think what we've seen with Kawai in the last couple of seasons is like there just is no substitute still for one on one scoring when it's down to it and it's the two best defensive teams in the NBA playing against each other at the absolute highest level. There is still no substitute for one on one scoring. That's an area where I'm not saying. That makes Michael Better. Because I think there's a pretty good chance that would it's also on. The brand is going to be known as the best all around player in the history of basketball but in that that one discreet area. He'll he'll never be Michael. And that one area amplifies an importance in the biggest games in the biggest moments and I think that's where Michael will always have him in war. We have everybody else that ever comes after him. I agree I think that's well said I think the the the beauty and the worst part of these arguments is that in order to make one guy's case you have to find ways to try to diminish the other men. Lebron James is is. It's hilarious that I have now since last answer came on Developed something of a reputation as being someone who is bashing Lebron when previously having my reputation was as someone who over I would hypoc Lebron too much people would accuse me of loving him too much of giving him too much credit of being all over him all the time so I love Lebron. I think he's unbelievable. There is. There's nothing on earth taking away from it but I'm saying there was just something about Michael Jordan's presence that made you say. Oh they're gonNA win like I don't know exactly how this game is going to go. Any number of things are going to happen but I can tell you now how it's going to end the team that has that guy is. GonNa wind up winning and and there is no more important quality that a great player can have than that and so to me that I would use. If we're going to say that there were splitting hairs. That's the hair I would split. Michael also has the. It's interesting how history is written by the winners so like the nine hundred ninety five playoffs when they lose to Orlando has just kind of like. It's just not talked about because it doesn't count. He had just come back from baseball Blah Blah Blah. If you throw that out you know their first six or seven years in the league. They don't win big. They don't win at the absolute highest level to both of them are parallel. What Michael if you throw ninety five out? What Michael Really doesn't have is a black mark and Lebron has the twenty eleven finals against a maths or he just didn't he just didn't play like Lebron just wasn't he was out of it. He wasn't mentally. He just didn't rise to the moment and in fact he he kind of cratered a little bit in the moment. And you could maybe place a couple of other games here. There are people. Throw the twenty ten playoffs Adam. These last playoffs with with the cavs. Michael doesn't have that and I think that as much as anything else colors this discussion because to your point he just an air of infallibility that note that Lebron will never have because we saw him on the very biggest stage just isolate the mavericks series. We saw him fail and he. He failed in a very high profile in spectacular way. And we just never saw with Michael Ever. That's that's right now. If you wanted to make one quick argument in favor of Lebron how many times was Lebron? The best player on the floor in series. He had no chance to win right. I mean and at least two finals I can think of The which was the year that the first year when when Kyrie level both hurt whatever your that was twenty fifteen fifteen I it. In my opinion it is a travesty. He wasn't voted. Mvp and I voted for. I'm voting for him. I was one of those. Who voted for him? Congratulations he was if they had gotten swept. I would have said you could vote. Anyone want the fact that that team won. Two Games in that series was an extraordinary accomplishment. And then he also. I thought was the best player on the floor and a series. They had no chance to win. The first year durant was there. They had no chance to beat that to no one was getting his seventeen twenty eighteen. Where Kyrie is gone by that point is that the JR Smith game with the Soak. They weren't GonNa win those series. What nobody that game may be game one when they go with the JR Smith Game? Now they go to overtime lose. Lebron has fifty or fifty one game. That might be the Best Game. I've ever seen any player play period multiple at the warriors have told me that's the best game they've ever seen anybody play because it was. Lebron and really supporting cast wasn't up to that I mean that's an all time warriors team. That's the team you're talking about Durant Klay all of them Lebron by himself was like I don't care that you have Steph and Katy to MVP's and all these other dudes I am single handedly going to win this game and I'm to bowl over draymond green lake. He's freaking bootzack low and lay the ball in time it was. He couldn't have kept that up over a full series but for that one game and they lost sight whatever. I don't know that I've ever seen anybody play like that planet. They were bad calls in that game. Remember there was a bad call late night game or at least a very questionable call on a on a block charge. That was being a very big deal. Late night game obviously. Jr Smith makes one of the colossal mistakes. That I've ever been made and a big spot that it's well documented so I put those things on Lebron's side so to be clear. I Don Hold Lebron's record in the finals. There's only one that I hold against him. And that's the one you point that I was the series against Dallas. They were the better team. He didn't play well and they lost. So that's the only one you hold against it but that is not to me the difference. I I'm not again if someone wants to tell me I I I enjoy this. I enjoy the give and take you get no argument from me. I'm Lebron but Michael just I don't know he. He was a combination of this On his podcast as well he was the the the most perfect combination of charisma and ferocity that I've ever seen so it's very hard to be the most charismatic person and the most ferocious competitor like. That's a very difficult line walk because usually ferocity isn't very pretty to watch but Jordan had a beauty. It was it was a thing of beauty to watch him play basketball and yet he was the most ferocious competitor out there. And you would you. Would you know he would kill you to beat you? But he did it in a way. That I'd like the gracefulness of Valor Ballet Dancer. It's it's an impossible combination and he was it So to to see him was like seeing something that I've never seen before and I am glad as a final thought here that so many younger people who are listening to this conversation right now who to your point never got a chance to see Michael Jordan. Play are getting to see what it is. All of us were so excited about that. But there's no games on so I would say those people go back and watch a game. Some of them are a little too grainy on YouTube. Go back and watch an early three peat like we were talking about before. Go back and watch Portland finals game and you'll just look at this guy and be like well. This guy is just. Wow you know go back and watch the sixty three point game against Boston. Google Watch one of those games anyway. Mike thank you for your time. Everyone knows where he wants you. I hope I get to see you in person at some point before. Twenty twenty one. But it's been a pleasure. Thanks man thank you. Thank you for having a good to see.