6 Burst results for "Jerome Wiesner"
"jerome wiesner" Discussed on Advent of Computing
"Now. Here comes the frustrating part for me. Supposedly this was a series of videos called tomorrow. I can only find one part of the series. In fact i can only find. Cbs tomorrow referenced. In a single video so maybe it was a series. Maybe it was just one film. I'm not entirely sure my guess is there. Some other real tucked away in archives. That have yet to be digitized however the single video i was able to find just enough to send me down a really weird rabbit hole. The video is titled the thinking machine. And it's all about. Mit's computer related research as modern observer. The thinking machine is just plain strange. This episode started with a snippet. But here's another one just to give you a taste with me tonight. Is professor your own. Be wizner director of the research laboratory of electronics at amity. That is now but what really worries me. Today is what's going to happen to us. If machines can think and what interests me specifically is can they. Well it's very hard question to answer if you'd asked me that question just a few years ago and said it was very farfetched today. Just have to admit i don't really know i suspect if you come back and four or five years. Say sure they really do. Think well if you're confused actor how do you think i feel especially reason there. I don't think i have to tell you that. The conception of the robot thinking machine has been man's dream for centuries also as nightmare so from the jump. It's clear there's a narrative going on here. The film has to hosts the actor. David wayne and mit's jerome wiesner. The duo sitting pretty comfortable looking nine. Hundred and fifty study smoking cigars and drinking for the whole hour. Long runtime wayne is confused and concerned about the imminent rise of artificial intelligence in computing. In general wiesner tries to answer wayne's questions and assuage his fears of course with the help of a series of prerecorded dimos to me. It feels like. Cbs is trying to hide this thin line between sensationalism and actually showing modern research so maybe i should revise things a little. It's like an open house with more restrictions. Each demo has to fit into the overarching narrative of progress towards ai. that is ultimately non-threatening. The demo can't be overly technical or have any kind of interactivity and more than anything. They have to be visual. It has to fit the medium of a film. We don't have a lot of information. About how the thinking machine was planned and produced my guess is mit. Put out a call to researchers asking for possible demos or projects.
"jerome wiesner" Discussed on American History Tellers
"We're continuing our four episode series on the Space Race with a look at the moment. The US finally pulled ahead of the Soviet Union. This is episode three taking the lead. On April twelfth, Nineteen Sixty one an American victory looked a long way off on that day a Soviet cosmonaut became the first person in space and the first to orbit the earth as the Vostok, one rocket lifted off from Baikonour. Cosmodrome the Cosmonaut Eureka getting shout over the radio I actually. It was an informal off script that became a rallying cry translation. Let's go. No one saw the man Soviet launch coming, not NASA not the US government, and certainly not John Shorty powers the NASA press officer in the story. You just heard he was unprepared when a journalist called asking for comment back again, he had the unfortunate honour being quoted in papers all across the country. While America had showed her hand with project mercury, placing the significant seven astronauts front and center in the media. The Soviets played their cards close to the vest, and it was quite hand. They played now once again. The Soviets were out in front question was. How would America's new president respond? In spite of his rhetoric on the campaign trail, the fact was Kennedy was not all that interested in space Jerome Wiesner Kennedy. Science advisor said that when he came to space exploration, the president hadn't thought much about it, but after guarantee orbit around the earth, ignoring space was no longer an option. Kennedy's initial response was less than reassuring. When asset a press conference, if America could ever surpass the Soviets, he replied as I said in my state of the Union message. The news would be worse before it is better, and it will be some time before we catch up. In Russia Khrushchev was thrilled in a phone call with Garin. He boasted let the capitalist countries catch up with our country. The world was an all an America was in shock. The Washington Post commented the Soviet space feet must be faced for what it is a psychological victory of the first magnitude and new evidence of Soviet superiority. After seeing the world's response to the Soviets Achievement Kennedy changed his tone, saying there's nothing more important than finding a way to overcome the Soviet lead in space, because if space didn't inspire Kennedy beating the Soviet shore did but less than a week after the Soviet launched Kennedy would be faced with another crisis, a failed American led invasion of the Bay of Pigs in Cuba it was a major US embarrassment. Kennedy needed to win twenty three days after guarantee launch. NASA would give him one a.
"jerome wiesner" Discussed on Moonrise
"Hopeful pros of Kennedy's speech may give the impression that he had been won over by the Grand Promise of scientific achievement men to the moon shot represented not exactly later that fall of nineteen sixty two JFK they had a meeting in the Oval Office that laid bare his views on space. There was a secret recording made of this meeting reading and it's incredible. It's so cool. It's like you listen to. It and it's like you're a fly on the wall for Kennedy's moon conversations in the White House it took about forty years from the conversation for the Kennedy Archives to find this recording and make it public. Good things come to those who made the the whole process of declassifying information is is is complex. This is Jamie Roth the deputy director of the Kennedy Library. We didn't know about the tapes until after the Watergate scandal happened. Nixon talked about how presidents had taping system but once they were found and then declassified and finally released the audio gave a really amazing window into Kennedy's Kennedy's views on the moonshot particularly this recording of the Oval Office meeting in the fall of sixty two. The tape is a bit hard to make out clearly in spots but I'm obviously going to play it for you anyway because it's so fascinating this is November twenty first nineteen sixty two at the White House and Kennedy is arguing with NASA administrator. Jim Webb about the progress of the Apollo Program. You know I do not. I think you were okay so JFK's asking Jim Webb here. If if the Moon Program is Nastase top priority and web actually says No. He says we have a bunch of top priorities and Kennedy. He's like Whoa stop right there. Clear Kennedy political the region work. The president is saying like it or not. We are doing this for international geopolitical reasons and we are in a race here. Web starts to push back on him saying listen soon. This is hard. NASA might need more time and resources to pull this off web says that live under the condition addition and the President's science advisor Jerome Wiesner cuts in the service and we're making the wildest guess sure they're all going back and forth and they're getting kind of riled up. The scientists are like we need you to support all all these other space science initiatives that will help us get to the moon we can't actually land there unless we put some time and money into figuring out these related space. Speiss challenges and Kennedy's Lake. Let me be very clear. There's only one reason we're spending this kind of money and even going to the moon at all to beat the Russians that we do order to get all of the ball every time. They believe that we've told people were preeminent in space. No one believes us. It's like what we need is to just get to the moon. It's fun to listen to the dynamic and the tension and seeing the president asking questions and and and really discovering what he's looking for and web giving it back to the president on bit saying you know what you're talking about and can use your right. I don't I am not interested enough. Now should be sending money because I'm not that interested. Statement gets good. We ought to know about it. Reasonable to whip partner by in Asia is to be damn where I'm not that interested in space. That's the big takeaway. Though the only justification to do it is because we hope to be them Kennedy as real from conversations that happened in the White House. It's that they're on tape now. We Kennedy really didn't care about the space program Nasa Bill Barry again but Web saw the space program is a is a very different if you did just what the president asked you to do which is sending people are GonNa get back. All you're really doing is a political spectacular which really has has no basis in reality and you so web is making the argument throughout the sixties whenever he meets the president that you know we need to have a robust based program we need. We may be studying the planet's. It's we need to be doing research. All kinds of things not just building a rocket. This in three is to the moon and Kennedy's not interested the tension between Kennedy Mighty and web kept bubbling up over the course of the following year Kennedy's a Boston. Your Democratic Democrat politician and web is an old southern boy who's used to talking a lot and explaining things and making his pitch and so they really roussel oil water in many ways.
"jerome wiesner" Discussed on C-SPAN Radio
"Who? That. Nasa relations with the outside world in many ways. It was at absolutely adamant that. Headquarters. Never put words in the mount. But there there are people not just astronauts, but people speak for themselves. Thank you, Jillian cheer who doesn't get much attention anymore. How important was his PR relationships with the networks and the whole story of NASA and on believably large. I'm probably an enthusiast space because of them look NASA as a government bureaucracy on agency remarkable public relations job, they do great at rice, and we're Nasr's in my backyard. But I go around college campuses and kids still wear the NASA logo, they made NASA lunchboxes, they promoted products like velcro or Tang which had nothing to do with NASA, but they would sign their name. They may deals with life magazine to profile the lives of the astronauts. I mean, he NASA to me, I think more government agencies need to let taxpayers know what they're doing with their dollars. Why what's the why does in the? Or the Commerce Department? Learn how to do public relations what they're doing with taxpayers money. We all knew what NASA was doing now explained it to us. They we saw photos, and we're told and they they worked at in a way to make people feel good that their tax dollars are going to NASA. And to give Jack Kennedy a lot of credit. He came up with a great line of saying, you know, what to individuals it is expensive to go the moon. It's going to cost you probably forty cents a week. People accepted that because he was being blunt with them today. It's like, well, it's really your money. Kennedy and say it is before. And so I think that combination of a Julian in Kennedy and James Webb were able to capture the imagination that we did this in the sixties, although the sixties early Jack Kennedy sixties in the late sixties, but even with civil rights, Vietnam. You know, protests counterculture space was able to hang in there. And in Alaska this summer fifty years of going to the moon. So I think the moonshot is going to be seen in history as Americans great achievement. I wanna read a footnote that you wrote. In the back of your book for a couple of reasons. One to ask you about the different things that came from the space efforts, but also your effort, and this is the term space medicine since nineteen seventy six NASA has annually published. Spinoff. A handsome publication, featuring technological innovations from space research, I read all copies the Glenn technologies that were most viable there is a profusion of mythology regarding the medical advances. Nasa did or didn't. Where do you find spin off and tell us about that? To miss two spinoff is tremendous because it's telling you where your tax dollars are going. And so in other words, it wasn't just going to the moon. It's product development like the perfection the danger of getting with NASA and Technet what we get got out of paying that twenty five billion is that some people will say like GPS was created by NASA. It was enhanced by NASA big time this event in thing is said that they created it. Well, that's people that's out there. If you pull up you'll see fake things that NASA created I mentioned, for example, velcro velcro was a guy in Switzerland. Who had his dog out pine hikes miss getting Burs? So they pulled it off. And this is like in the nineteen forties. There was velcro, but suddenly people focused NASA used the product they pioneered in it. But we're we're NASA GPS is gigantic with NASA when you deal with the anti. Devices planes. Yes. Infiltrating out in all sorts of refrigerant pressurized cabins refrigeration on an medical advances. But there they learn to test it they're part of a if you like an industrial academic innovation. Kept -nology world spin off though can tell you every one of the products with with great with great find spend a home, libraries, you can get it from NASA because they still write these rent. They'd been regularly update on what they're coming to let people know what that that. It's a steal. What volume wasn't for you to have to read. How big news Pam how many every one oh tons? You got them from the library like, you know, wind up like this pretty pretty thick each one about one hundred pages where they find them Rice University. This is off the subject of bit. But it's about politics, and I was one of my big. Surprises in your book. And I want to ask you about before we lose time. I'm gonna read it back to you. Then a most unlikely spoiler appeared before the subcommittee. John, Glenn who echoed webs contention that funding women in space drained money needed for the moonshot and was generally a waste of tax dollars. I think this gets back to the way our social orders organized, Glenn testified. It is just fact that men go off and fight the wars and fly the airplanes and come back and help design and build and test them. The fact that women are not in the field is a fact of our social order. Glenn where did you find that your guy my guy? They look I write about women in my book, obviously in the NASA world, but mainly how they were frozen out. There was a group of female astronauts known as the mercury thirteen and they got a mandate, Dr Lovelace out in New Mexico who was only ten generally connected and ASA on that gets miss written. Sometimes, but he started thinking women we'd be better astronauts because they consume less oxygen there. They tend to have smaller frames than men who would be very great. And he had all these theories of why women would be ideal astronauts, and he started doing medical testing extreme medical testing to foot rubber hose down your throat. Endurance test on bikes, sweat that just very tough thing and came up with a group of thirteen camera the astronauts on women, but why was John Glenavon Ohio? Ran from president Glen. Well, this is early Glenn, and they did not want. There was a movement to get women astronauts, and they thought it was a male progress. It's just part of what the early sixties were like Betty for Dan. Book was just coming out in Rachel Carson's silent spring in the women's movement was getting going, but look all of these astronauts, you just mentioned we've been talking about all white men. I mean, I write later about Sally ride, and how now women in space are it's a big deal, but we're still dealing in a highly chauvinistic misogynistic aero when we're dealing with early. Nasa in women were cut out the Soviet Union. Put a woman into space before we get on C span radio this is Cuban day with historian Douglas Brinkley. You've mentioned several times Jim Webb. I've got some audio with Jim Webb talking to John Kennedy before we go to that though. Give us who was he and what role did he play in all this? You know, in the end web is not as interesting as astronauts, but web's the web's the story he was from North Carolina a lawyer worked for Harry Truman. Even in the State Department and treasury budget budget guy back in the Truman years who became seen as an extraordinary Capitol Hill. Lobbyist. If you like, but he didn't work for McGee Kerr oil out in Oklahoma gets back to Oklahoma again with Kerr. And he was an extraordinary bureaucrat technocrat is better way putting it and he was the one Kennedy picked on the recommendation of Kerr Johnson to head NASA. A lot of people didn't know whether NASA was going to get funded heavily by Kennedy because there's a Jerome Wiesner of MIT wrote a report saying don't do manned space to president Kennedy. Right. When he became president. Don't put men up there. They blow up you gotta dead astronaut floating around in space right on your watch. We can do use monkeys robots. And went came in back manned space. There would be no Alan shepherd. John glenn. If it wasn't for webs, persistence. But why web so important see was southern he he got along with Democrats and Republicans he was both liberal new dealer and a conservative somehow. And so he knew how to count the votes on Capitol Hill and keep the money flowing. No there used to be a comedy saying, no, no, no bucks. No bucks. Rogers you want to go to the moon? It costs a lot of money and web's the one that went and constantly got the appropriations in and then he ran a squeaky clean shopping s he ran it. Well, we gotta compliment out of somebody running a government agency with great efficiency. But you write a lot about the disagreements between Jim Webb and president Kennedy. I wanna run this audio and you've got to follow closely their script on the screen. So you can see what they're saying. But. He's a bit feisty in this watch this and you can follow up on..
"jerome wiesner" Discussed on C-SPAN Radio
"The products with with great with great, exactly. Libraries, you could get it from NASA. Right. These they've been regularly update on what they're coming to let people know what that that. It's a steal. What volume wasn't for you to have to read how big like news Pam, how many aging one oh tons got them from the library like, you know, wind up like this pretty pretty thick each one about hundred pages, they find them Rice University. This is off the subject of bit. But it's about politics. One of my big surprises in your book. And I want to ask you about before we get lose time. I'm gonna read it back to you. Then a most unlikely spoiler appeared before the subcommittee. John Bland who echoed webs contention that funding women in space drained money needed for the moonshot and was generally waste of tax dollars. I think this gets back to the way our social orders organized. Glenn testified. It is just fact that men go off and fight the wars and fly the airplanes and come back and help design and build and test them. The fact that women are not in the field is a fact of our social order. Glenn where did you find out your Hyogo? My my Ohio guy. They look I write about women in my book. Obviously in the NASA world, but mainly how they were frozen out. There was a group of female astronauts known as the mercury thirteen and they got a mandate, Dr Lovelace out in New Mexico who was only generally connected Anassa on that gets miss written. Sometimes, but he started thinking women would be better astronauts because they consume less oxygen there. They tend to have smaller frames than the pool would be very great. And he had all these theories of why women would be ideal astronauts, and he started doing medical testing extreme medical testing to foot rubber hose down your throat too. Endurance test on bikes, sweat that just very tough thing and came up with a group of thirteen camera. The astronauts are women, but why was John Glenn of Peavy ran from president Glenn? Well, this is early Glenn, and they did not want. There was a movement to get women astronauts, and they thought it was a male progress. It's just part of what the early sixties were like Betty for Dan. Book was just coming out in Rachel Carson's silent spring in the women's movement was getting going, but look all of these astronauts, you just mentioned we're been talking about all white men. I mean, I write later about Sally ride, and how women in space are it's a big deal, but we're still dealing in a highly chauvinistic misogynistic aero when we're dealing with early. Nasa and women were cut out the Soviet Union. Put a woman in his face before we did on C span radio this is Cuban day with historian Douglas Brinkley. You've mentioned several times Jim Webb. I've got some audio with Jim Webb talking to John Kennedy before we go to that though. Give us who was he and what role did he play in all this? You know, in the end web is not as interesting as astronauts, but webs the web's the story he was from North Carolina. A lawyer worked for Harry Truman. Even in the State Department and treasury budget budget guy back in the Truman years who became seen as an extraordinary Capitol Hill. Lobbyist. If you like, but he didn't work for McGee Kerr oil out in Oklahoma gets back to Oklahoma again with Kerr. And he was in extraordinary bureaucrat technocrat is better way putting it and he was the one Kennedy picked on the recommendation of current Johnson to head NASA. A lot of people didn't know whether NASA was gonna get funded heavily by Kennedy because there's a Jerome Wiesner of MIT wrote a report saying don't do manned space to president Kennedy. Right. When he became president. Don't put men up there. They'd blow up you gotta dead astronaut floating around in space right on your watch. We can do use monkeys robots. And went came in in back manned space. There would be no Alan shepherd. John glenn. If it wasn't for west persistence, but why web so important see with southern he he got with Democrats and Republicans he was both liberal new dealer and a conservative somehow. And so he knew how to count the votes on Capitol Hill and keep the money flowing. No. They're a comedy saying, no, no, no bucks. No, bucks Rogers. You wanna go the moon? It costs a lot of money and web's one to win and constantly got the appropriations in and then he ran squeaky clean shop. He ran it. Well, we got a compliment out of somebody running a government agency with deficiency. But you write a lot about the vis agreements between Jim Webb and president Kennedy. I wanna run this audio and you've got to follow closely their script on the screen. So you can see what they're saying. But. He's a bit feistiness. That's what this ending. You can follow up. What? Clean..
"jerome wiesner" Discussed on The Limit Does Not Exist
"Action or keystroke in this case to unlock some action on your computer. So specifically, Maki Maki lets you hooking alligator clip to banana, and when you touch the banana, it pushes the a key on your keyboard if you've hooked to the a part of the Maki Maki. Well, now you can Google the word piano. And if you go the word piano or online piano, you'll come up with all kinds of websites with online pianos built into them. And if you type onto your keyboard a SDF G you'll play like though Ramey you'll play the major scale. Well, now if you touch that banana, that was hooked to the you are pushing the key. In fact, the computer or the laptop, it doesn't. No, you're not pushing the achey. It just thinks you're pushing the achey. So you touch the banana, and you play Doh and then you hook up five more bananas and now. Now. Piano. Oh, Mike, Jay. Why? Bananas? How did the idea of a banana piano enter your brain? It's so cool. Are the apple of the creative, playful world and so-. Banana is our symbol. Oh, I love that. Also, bananas are what happened? You know, bananas represent mistakes. They represent silliness, and that's how you make these discoveries. So you know better a banana piano. Then then something that it's supposed to be, you know, better than you know, piano, piano. Pinot Pinot fixed medium. China's right. You can rearrange them and now you're you're out of order or you can stack them on top of each other. What if he put Domi? So on top of each other and you touch that stack, you've played accord. So this is rearrange -able and reconfigure, and it could be forks instead of bananas or instead of a piano, you could pull up your favorite video game by googling it, and then you can take some Plato and hook them up in such a way that represents a game controller, hook up the arrow keys to the Plato. And now you've made your own Plato game controller. Before we continue our conversation with Jay, we want to give a shout out to Zip Recruiter if you're hiring, you know that every business needs great people and a better way to find them something better than just posting your job online and praying for the right people to see it. ZipRecruiter learns what you're looking for, identifies people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job. These invitations have revolutionized how you find your next higher. In fact, eighty percent of employers who post jobs on ZipRecruiter. Get a quality candidate through the site in just one day, the even spotlight the strongest applications you receive. So you never miss a great match. The right candidates are out there. ZipRecruiter is how you find them right now. Listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free. Just go to ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash Forbes, that's ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash Forbes ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire motivation with Amazon music who still in bed didn't you running over slept? I'll go tomorrow in the shower. Alexa set an alarm for five AM tomorrow too hard rock music. The right song. Exactly when you need it. Amazon music, the simplest way to listen to the music. You love new customers. Start your thirty day free trial of Amazon, music dot com. Renews automatically cancel anytime. Hello guys, it's fighter jail, Senate. Check out my podcast. You're welcome with chaleston at every Wednesday and Friday right here at podcast one, we cover the latest in mixed martial arts and everything else going on in the world of sport. Listen free to your welcome with jail, son, and exclusively available on apple podcasts at podcast, one dot com. And on the podcast, one app, if you love the show, share with a friend and leave us a rating and review. The limit does not exist is brought to you by ferret desk and easy way to encourage more movement in any workday. You can try Veritas products, risk free for thirty days with free shipping and free returns. If you're not satisfied, learn more at very desk dot com, slash Forbes, that's V A R I desk dot com slash Forbes. So you had a very successful Kickstarter campaign around Maki Maki right around this kit that people can use to make all these kinds of things. What are some of the applications that you've seen people, you know, take this and run with that that have excited you. Well, some South Americans took a took Maki Maki. N ran down a slack line with it and they hooked up a question. Mark blocks hanging from some trees and when they jumped off the slack line Maki Maki. Could tell that they were disconnected from the slack line and played a jumping sound. Then when they hit the blocks above their heads with their fists, a connection, electrical connection was made, and it gave them points and played a sound effects of them rowing or planes. Oh my gosh. Just like a real life like Mario brother slack line platformer slack line. Mario? Yeah, that's. I was having a time. Apparently I'm hungry because you as we're talking about banana pianos and all I could think about was like what happens when the bananas go bad. And then I was like, oh, banana bread. So I was very excited that music could turn into banana bread of sizes. Isis. A bread, slice it into slices in a wack arrangement, and now turns out banana bread is conductive to because we've set the conductive threshold at twenty mega Ohms. Oh my God, half of the things in the world are less than the whole world is a circuit. Okay. Mic my mouth is just hanging. So I. So I have to draw at least a connection in my mind. You tell me whether it's a real one that you're PHD is from the MIT media lab, lifelong kindergarten. And I just I feel like banana pianos and intendo controllers out of Plato feel like something that I would have maybe come up with in kindergarten, and then you know, had shaken out of me by by middle school. What is that lab? What? What brought you there for your PHD and lifelong kindergarten? Is that a thing? Yes, it's the sense. Incredibly alab is just a, it's like a mistake. It's like all of the misfits came together with nNcholas Negroponte's crazy idea. And Jerome Wiesner is crazy idea and created this lab where you don't publish. You don't publish Paris. You demo. Or you die demo or die. You're there in the middle of the night with other people trying out your crazy idea and laughing. When I, I dropped out of electrical engineering PHD program at MIT. I was going to just stop going to MIT, but I got introduced to rosbif heart at media lab and she said, oh, well, what do you do for research? They said research, I'm done with research. I don't do research and she said, well, she, but she was pretty smart professor. So she knew the right question. She said, well, what do you do at night for fun? Well, I created this really cool like computer vision like face manipulation face worker, the call, the emotional DJ and I take it the clubs, and while people are spinning point, the webcam at people's faces and tweak their facial expressions in real time by recognising where their mouth and eyes are, and then bending them with like a meshwork like algorithm. And so I. Around with with fun, the digital media apps and creating my own digital signal processing application. She's like, she's like, whoa, you realize this is research, right? This has applications and autism has applications in emotional research and effective. In fact, my group is called affect of computing. I'm like, wait, you do say, this is research and she's like, yeah, I'm like, no, this is just me messing around. So I'm like, we'll sign me up and for the next eight years. Join lifelong kindergarten. Like you said, headed up by mattress, neck and lifelong kindergarten might sound like just for fun, and it really really was fun being there, but it's actually really a serious discipline where the question is, okay, if building blocks finger paints are so good for six year olds, developmentally appropriate there, generative and creative and open ended, and emotional and healing, and also forms the intellect and forms the connection to the hands and and all these things. Then why don't we have more building blocks and finger paints for nine year olds, and sixth graders, high schoolers and people in the working world. And for people in colleges, lifelong kindergarten is trying to answer the question is what would be the building blocks and finger paints for older people. I love that so much. I need to go back because I heard a very juicy phrase which is dropped out when I dropped out of electrical. So can you just take take us back to that point where you pursuing electrical engineering at MIT and then and then just said, research is not writing. Well, electrical engineering assist, beautiful discipline where you move electrons around a now. Electrons have become digital, and so you're, you're analyzing information, music videos, the most beautiful things we've created. All of art can be digitized in some form or other most of it can. And now you get to manipulate that basically manipulate art on the fly. So it's this beautiful discipline. However, the cultural culture around, it just wasn't a fit for me. And I had interned at Lincoln labs and I had made this really cool robot that could. I'd helped make this really cool robot that could walk through the forest autonomously and I'm like, what goes on top of the robot and they're like, oh, you know, like probably a gun or something, and I'm like. Are you serious breezy as. And there's other, you know, there's this culture of corporate corporate profiteering which isn't always bad. But as we've seen in late capitalism can often be really terrible and this culture of of warmongering that electrical engineering enables in in many of its applications and and there's also a culture of right and wrong, multiple choice answers and fishing see over beauty, and that just didn't work for me. So I couldn't be in the culture as beautiful as the art west. So I'm so fascinated about this idea of Plato for adults because I feel as though and so much of my own creative profession I have had to unlearn so much of what I learned in school, and I was someone who was really good at school and then became an adult and found out that some of that's useful. A lot of it's not so useful. So I'm so fascinated. You have gone into companies and you have given workshops to practice the idea. Of smashing, electronics, and everyday objects together. You were the first ever maker research scientist at Intel. What have you discovered J about company culture and creativity and how we can pull some more of this into our adult lives will. There is a lot to permission and there is a lot to people feeling some sense of wildness. There's an intuition that comes with an undomesticated permission to try something new. And if you want people to discover something, it's almost cliche. Now you have to fail, you have to find dead ends. They're part of the map. And like I said before. And what I found is that the culture is created by the people in the company and by the leaders. And I guess if the leaders are willing to be vulnerable, if the leaders are willing to try new things, but but these things are hard to maintain in large companies and overtime. So you know, you know, the phrase is, oh, it was cooler last year. Well, yeah, things are cooler last year because as organizations age, they're inherently less flexible, less less provocative, they have more at stake, you know. So this is just the nature of things that's not necessarily bad. We don't need to change Intel. If you enjoy being at Intel, then work at Intel. If you enjoy the spaniels between jobs at Intel, then then start your skunkworks do things without asking for permission, and if someone finds out about it, well, you'll either get fired or promoted depending on how the work. So you know, always do your best work and always create beauty and people will appreciate it. And if that means you need to get fired from your existing job. Well, I mean, assuming that you know your mortgage is in like two tight or in your don't have too many kids. That's actually totally fine, right? You're pushing you to the next place you. You need to be there helping you demagnetize from that place. And then if you're open to it, then there's new magnets everywhere, new cultural magnets, ready to suck you into a new adventure. I love that too. I have to ask. What was your childhood? Like was there ever question that you would study our science in college? How did you land on electrical engineering? What did your parents do? I just I need more information. My parents are like mission driven, so there I was born to a pack of hippies. My dad started on food co op. And and their mission. And literally the mission statement of that coop is food for people not for profit, and they believed that you could awake in your body and awake in your mind and feel better and create community by buying an eating like it didn't used to be called organic food because also it used to be somewhat or going in. And sharing organic and healthy foods that help build your body and build your mind and don't wear you down. So and my mom is