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Rock N Roll Librarian Reads Petty: The Biography
On October 7th, 2017 Tom Petty joined the rock n roll orchestra on the other side. He was 67 years young. For rockers around the world, like Prince a few months earlier, it was a shock coupled with immense sadness. Forever on we will not have Tom around with his Heartbreakers disposing easy wisdom in song or slyly telling off adversaries with Southern charm or that kick ass band that hummed like a stock car racer. It was a hard one to take. Join the Rock N Roll Librarian Shelley Sorenson and the Rock N Roll Archaeologist Christian Swain as they discuss Warren Zanes’ 2015 biography of the Gainesville born singer songwriter born in 1950 who found rock n roll as the only answer to his passions. No one other than Warren Zanes, rocker and writer and friend, could author a book about Tom Petty that is as honest and evocative of Petty's music and the remarkable rock and roll history he and his band helped to write. Born in Gainesville, Florida, with more than a little hillbilly in his blood, Tom Petty was a Southern shit kicker, a kid without a whole lot of promise. Rock and roll made it otherwise. From meeting Elvis, to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, to producing Del Shannon, backing Bob Dylan, putting together a band with George Harrison, Dylan, Roy Orbison, and Jeff Lynne, making records with Johnny Cash, and sending well more than a dozen of his own celebrated recordings high onto the charts, Tom Petty's story has all the drama of a rock and roll epic. Petty, known for his reclusive style, has shared with Warren Zanes his insights and arguments, his regrets and lasting ambitions, and the details of his life on and off the stage. This is a book for those who know and love the songs, from "American Girl" and "Refugee" to "Free Fallin'" and "Mary Jane's Last Dance," and for those who want to see the classic rock and roll era embodied in one man's remarkable story. Dark and mysterious, Petty manages to come back, again and again, showing us what the music can do and where it can take us. Petty: The Biography: https://www.amazon.com/Petty-Biography-Warren-Zanes/dp/0805099689/ref=asc_df_0805099689/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=266411458063&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17551784074721390445&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031924&hvtargid=pla-489316970127&psc=1 Support the shows by wearing cool rock n roll gear from TeePublic: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/rocknroll Disclaimer: The views expressed here by Shelley Sorenson are made in her capacity as a private citizen, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the San Francisco Public Library or the City of San Francisco.
Rock N Roll Archaeology
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Books Every Man Should Read, Masculine Skill Sets, and Solving Your Own Problems | ASK ME ANYTHING
You're a man of action you live life to the fullest, compress, your fears and boldly charge your own path when life knocks you down you get back up. One more time every time you are not easily deterred beating rugged zillion strong. This is your life. This is we are this is you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done you can call yourself a man welcome to AMA twenty two. This is the asking anything segment of the order and podcasts for longtime listeners you may be throwing a little bit. For today's episode. Normally this conversation where reineck learned myself, Kip Sorenson, we we go over questions that get submitted to us. We talk about them here on this episode. Unfortunately, though, I will be running solo today as Ryan's unable to join our recording for this given week and so impr-. Mm preparation for that. We posed questions to our Facebook group at Facebook dot com, Ford slash groups, Ford slash order man and kind of geared the questions around what questions the guys had for me specifically. So we will or I will be answering those questions as part of this podcast today. And and we'll get through these questions, and and and this may be a little odd for you. But trust me, it's a little bit more odd for me doing this AMA solo. It's all honest, I'm tempted already hit stop on the recording and start over. But in spirit in it to to the spirit in which Ryan likes to do a lot of these podcasts. We we purposely shoot from the hip not because we don't want to prepare. But really because we wanna make sure that this is kind of raw and real and and Ryan spirit word authentic. So so here. You go. So we're going to go over these questions for first time listeners the order man podcast, primarily consists of three different shows. A Ryan does a conversation with a guest on Tuesdays these AMA's? These ask me any things are on Wednesdays. And then then on Fridays Ryan will do a Friday filled notes where he shares his ideas and opinions regarding an array of different subjects and topics. So like, I mentioned earlier part of the AMA as we filled questions primarily from three different areas. We we filled questioned from our patriot account, which you can learn more at patriot dot com slash order of man, or we'll get questions from the iron council, which is the mastermind slash brotherhood of the order of man. A where we have five hundred plus members that are active. Memberships include me. Meeting with a team of individuals on a weekly basis and discussing topics and holding other accountable and having goals and and whatnot. You can learn more about the Aren council at order, man dot com slash Aren council. And then last like mentioned already the Facebook group, which is Facebook dot com slash groups slash order, man. So let's let's go ahead and just jump right into these questions. Some of them are are little funny. Like, these guys are cracking jokes. The fact that I'm having a run solo today. But yeah, but this this will be good conversation. And a lot of these questions. I just briefly looked over right before I started hitting record. And and some of them are really great questions. So I'll do my best to to get through this. And and we'll get rolling. So our first question is from Ryan Gillet. He says Kip Sorenson how does it feel not to have Ryan Wayne you down this week? I think it's more like how do I feel about Ryan way? He down this week by having me do this episode on my own. So it's far easier with someone else on the Mike, and and just shooting the breeze in and having a conversation answering questions, so it's a little bit more awed. I'm not used to this answering questions on my own. So so I think he's way me down. Now normally he doesn't so. And it's as a hell of a lot easier to answer questions after you've heard someone else already replied to them where you're going to have to actually hear me answer them first and kinda shoot off the hip, and we'll see what I come up with on some of these questions, right? Actually did have a more serious question. And it was around Ryan Miko showing up like he does in spite of scheduling, sometimes illness. He is consistent and consistently brings it part of why you're at the top of the spear. And I totally agree. Ryan, I don't think Ryan has ever missed an episode. He's not about to let that happen. Now. Thus you guys get me for this week and. Any takes it really serious. But most importantly, I want to clarify. I don't think he thinks serious that there's a podcast episode. I think he takes serious that he's given his word that he will. And he honors that word, and that's super super critical because in the end guys if we can't honor what we said, we would do then were were completely out of integrity. And and we give a lot of people in our lives. No reason to trust us. And or believe in anything that we say or do. So next question Tyler cross where's Ryan heading this week. So actually, I'm not one hundred percent, sure. But I know he's hunting. So Tyler you'll have to fall with him. And maybe we'll we'll answer your question on next week when he's back on line. Ben Jaman, Kip are leg locks the devil submission. Yes, bent, it is the devil submission and everyone should know to participate in double submissions. So for you guys that aren't jujitsu guys. And this is my opinion guys this there's not some jitsu book life book in regards to sane how things are. But this is my take on this. So as many of you guys know that our energy to there's a little bit of this. Opinion in that culture that especially lower belts that you stay away from leg locks culturally, you could use strength locks or knee bars. Those who are kind of sketchy not as sketchy, but acceptable. But when we look at toll folds or hill hooks and other submissions in in fact, some tournaments even straight out do not allow them. And a lot of tournaments don't allow them unless you're like black belts in certain certain lakes emissions when you're a Brown belt, but there's been a little bit of a shift. I think in the in the culture of jujitsu where do a lot of popular guys in the circuit proving to be highly affected by by Liga tax. And so I think there's been some momentum around jitsu around going for the legs. But. I don't know, man. I I love it. I love leg tax. I think everyone needs to learn them now without demonizing everybody in regards to prevent it. Like what's just use like he'll hooks as an example, unless you know in an attempt not to demonize people for being against them. This is why most emissions there's a little bit of pain right before damage. So what what just look at an are bar, for instance, if I get an arm bar, my my arms being hyper-extended, there's a point there where I start feeling pain. Right. I I know that there's going to be some damage. I I have a few seconds to tap. And luckily my opponent is a good partner. Let's go and I avoid damage right hill hooks on the other hand can be super super dangerous because you don't feel kind of that precursor warning of pain. Seen before there's damage a lot of hill hooks. It's just tight, but it doesn't necessarily doesn't you don't feel pain. And and in some cases, when you do feel pain than the damage is already done. And that's why a lot of these kinda somewhat been kind of outlawed in some tournaments because they're so dangerous. Now, the problem with this, and we can look at this analogy, and how it might apply to other areas of our life. But the problem with this is one a lot of guys engines because of self defense. Well, then that doesn't make sense why we wouldn't go after and learn submission if it's highly effective on the street, right or what's again a street. Find the guy knows how to do hill hook. So I don't know how to defend them. And by the way, what's the best way. To learn how to defend a hillock to learn how to do a hill hook, right? And so there's there's a lot of benefit to getting rid of the ignorance learning these submissions understanding when they are dangerous. So. So then that way when someone has me into the hill hook, I know wind tap, right? I don't rely on my pain to say, okay. I better tap. Instead. I'm going. Hey, I know because I know how to do this mission. I know that he has me. So I'm tapping before, you know, something serious happens. So yeah, I love a love leg locks Ben, I'm assuming you're asking because you've been you've been tempted to come to the dark side. Join us. Join the dark side go after legs. It's all good fun. Be careful especially with new white belts new guys that are training that are, you know, frantic and crazy you might blow out their knee. Right. If if you're not careful so let go of the pride logo this mission. If you think you're going to hurt your opponent and be careful when guys are putting it on Utara early and learn the submission. So you know, how to defend but also so you don't get hurt. So that's my take Ben hopefully, the answer your question. All right. Josh. Choua Gergen Kip five or more books every man should in his should have in his library. Let's think of old school not just the new ones, and I am super happy. He said old school, not just the new ones because it's always tempting right for us to spin off all the all the books that are were currently reading that. We're kind of excited about and whatnot. So. Holy cow. This is this may be a little tough. Let me do my best. So. First off that comes to mind crucial conversations amazing book. I don't remember the author you'll have to look it up. But it's really around the idea that for you to have a legitimate constructive conversation with someone you cannot have them defending their ego. You have to have trust that is stabbed. You can't be attacking them and everything else in and I think far too often we have these conversations where we think we can argue with someone and we're going to also and convince them or change their mind will not if we're attacking right, not if the relationship doesn't have a positive baseline to actually start off of otherwise the conversation is about everything other than the topic of the conversation. Great book, Edward Simmons, actually bought that book for me showed up in my Mel, and it was awesome. And I appreciate Edward and shutout to him for me up with that book. Another book I'd add to the list on the old school list is as a man thinks we. We talked about this a lot in iron council. I don't know. Maybe we don't actually now that I think about it. But James Allen is the author an amazing book the premise, your thoughts drive, your actions, your actions drivers, alz. So you need to change your thought process loved the book, no more. Mister, mister, nice guy. Of course. I definitely we. I know we talk about that one quite a bit on the podcast another book throw in here. I know it's not like a, quote, unquote, become a better man kind of book or self-help. But it's the book a people's history of the United States super amazing book. There's actually another book I love in that same kind of topic. And it's the real George Washington. I think there's so much for us to learn from our forefathers and just just totally love that book. If I had around off this list of two more I'd say morning miracle by hell. Elrod? I love the morning miracle super great book. And then probably one of Ryan holidays books, maybe the daily stoic or. The obstacles the way probably I would add to that list. So in how hope that helps great books I've read all of those multiple times. That's how that's how could those books are. In fact, I've even bought as a think thi- believe for siblings and friends on a regular basis, and it's a really short read. So as a man think at this probably maybe one of the top three books all of all time on my list now. An unrelated. No pause. I related. No. If you don't mind me suggesting this and talking to my boys about this about the concept of of religion. They're teenagers. And there are a little bit in this. At least my seventeen year olds a little bit in the space where religions not important, right? It's about school and excitement and friends and in those kind of things, and and so that's telling him the other day was imagine. If you found you dug up some treasure chest and was full of these old scribes ri- old papers written hundreds of years ago, by wise people and not only written a hundred years ago, but rewritten right? We have to keep that in mind guys. There's no digital print of the bible as an example for these books to make their way all the way until now at some point people had a rewrite these things right to hold onto them. So these are the stories that were like passed down through generations. And I really think that if we were in a position where we found like the books that are found like within the holy. Bible, for instance, that we would read through them like crazy, right? This is a mazing listen to these stories and some of this crazy old, wisdom or whatever. But we don't do that. Right. We go all it's the bible. It's tied to religion. Maybe it's not, you know, or at least for some of you that may not be religious. We odds tied relig-. I wanna read that. I think you would if you found those same exact books, and you read them, so with that in mind, I don't think you need to be religious the see the huge value in old writings where the whether it be whether it's the Old Testament or the Torah for that matter the same book, by the way or the Koran or the bible. I mean, I bet there is just fascinating things to learn that's been passed down through centuries, and it would just be cool to read. So that's my that's my prop or my me. Give him props to the bible and other old writings, I just think it's it's super valuable and there's a lot to gain regardless of like the. Religious tie-ins. So that's my take all right jazz. Florez what's up? What lessons did you? Give your boys this last camping trip. You had. All right. So let me give everyone the rundown because I doubt you guys all follow me on Instagram. So. My two oldest boys. One's nineteen the other seventeen. They were just in town last week. My sister lives with his mom in Phoenix, Arizona. My oldest is going to college. So they're in town for holidays, and I told the boys. Mckay, we should we should go backpacking. And they're like, yeah. Sounds good. But we just kind of spoke to briefly. And then my central says, hey, are we are we going to go backpacking? Unlike you really want to and he was I could tell us a little bit on the fence. He was like, you know. You know, you know, it's kind of cold and leading up to this question. It's been it's been damn cold outside. And and I'll be honest. I was thinking the same thing. I thought if he says, no all be happy. Right. And then my nineteen year old goes now, I want you and I'm like, all right? Let's do this load up your backs and literally like within an hour. Probably I said grab bags throwing stuff in the bags prep in getting dressed through the bags on our back and start up the mountain. We're in northern Utah. Let me just kind of set a precedent of how the strip went a little bit. If you don't mind. First off. I had a funeral that I went to earlier in the day with my wife, a good friend of ours. Pass away. Super sad scenario. Mad props to Matt her husband that is has two little girls. And now, he's a single father. And he has. An amazing opportunity. To rise up and rise up to the occasion that has been placed before him. And I know he'll he's going to do an amazing job anyhow. So the funeral services went long, and we didn't get back until probably about maybe three or four in the afternoon, and we're supposed to go backpacking. Right. So we get we get ready. We got our packs. We get on the trail, and we probably only get maybe about an hour of sunlight before it gets dark. The temperature is in the single digits easily by that time in the negatives throughout the night. Once it got late about halfway up. Our watering are now, gene bottles was frozen. The bladder tubes where you drink water out of those became frozen. We're snowshoeing and a few feet of snow Superfund, super cold, chilly, and it was awesome. Now, let me add this caveat to this. My oldest son Brendan has ash usher syndrome, which means that he has a hearing loss since birth and he's losing his vision. And when it's dark he's almost one hundred percent lights out. So at dusk in when it's dark outside. He can't see he can't see a thing. So some will call me a not very responsible parent. Others will say, I'm crazy. But regardless we went, and he did awesome. But imagine or at least maybe put yourself in his shoes a little bit in regards to what it would mean to be hiking in darkness in freezing cold weather and being barely able to see anything right with even with the headlamp on. So anyhow this camp trip went great, and it was super fun. So back to your question just it was a single night or and then we came back the next day. So Flora's your question is what lessons did you give your boys? So unspoken lessons, right? This is what's great about these kind of things guys. We don't have to. We don't have to preach. Right. I don't have to get on a pedestal and go. Hey, boys. Now, let me express the importance of grit. Right. No. The process is the lesson. Right. So what are the unspoken lessons from that trip? That there is huge reward in tackling the difficult things right guaranteed. My boys were like that was miserable. It was cold. It was at one point. I don't think we make camp until you eleven PM at night the trail was on a steep Klein, there's a little bit of risk of kind of avalanche kind of area. But most importantly, there's no place to sleep. Right. Like, we had to reach our destination. Or it was go back the other way, and we're roughly I think about four and a half miles or four and a half hours of hiking that night until we made camp. And so it was difficult. Right. There's probably times they're like it was maybe go back. Right. But we kept pushing through. Hey, guys, keep going keep going keep going. Keep your heart rate down. Right. Don't get. Sweaty. We don't wanna freeze, and there's all kinds of survival things that we're kind of talking about. But most importantly, I think the unspoken things that they lessons that they learned is a reward of doing the difficult thing and the emotional reward of like how you feel about toughening it up and having some grit and pushing through something that you don't wanna do. I'm sure a little bit of my son was dealing with some fear of not being able to see what he was where he was walking. Right. And what if I slide down the side of this thing, I know I was dealing with a little bit of that fear. Right. As as a father being responsible for my boys and making sure that we're going to stay warm enough. Right. The no one's going to lose a toe over the night. Right. So. Yeah. So it was it was those were the unspoken lessons now that night. Why we're in the tent? It was a great conversation. I asked the boys we had a conversation around what they would want people to say at their funerals. That was on my mind do to attending burns funeral. And so I was giving already some thought to it. And and so as asking them, you know, what would you want people say about you? And so we're kind of reflecting a little bit in regards to kind of our purpose, right? Or at least the Arp the purpose that we want to create or the impact that we want on life. And so we we had a little bit of conversation around that. So all right next question. Josh Zafy know, Kip how much better do you think you'll be without Ryan that is to be determined. Josh, you know, what I'm just bulldozing through this. And I'm going to keep talking while this thing records, I'm gonna hit stop. I'm not gonna listen to it until it goes live, otherwise I'll guarantee you I'm going to I'm going to want to re record everything and try to make it perfect. And and it will lose its authenticity. If I do so, so I just hope that you guys appreciate some of these responses, Josh Allen. And that you guys come back next week at least when when Ryan's back in the studio. Or back on the Mike. So Cameron baron. What our top five mass skills. I should pass onto my son. I want to learn them now while my son is little since my dad didn't teach me many skills. So cameron. This is an interesting question. Because the first thing that crosses my mind when I hear masculine skills. I immediately think like. Change your tire. Learn how to make a fire. Learn how to defend yourself those kind of things. But all the things that crossed my mind, primarily are kind of those soft skills things that I think will dry progress in those other areas. So the first thing that comes to mind is, and I think who was at Tom Bill, you talks about this is the value of seen yourself as not being right, but the ability to find the right answer. So I think that's a huge trait. Mostly because by default. I think our behavior is to have ego right in into come across as the person. That's right. All the time. And because by doing that, we lack learning. But so yeah, the focus on I think the idea of hey, you know, what I'm not right, but I can find the right answer and having that be part of your personality and how you see yourself. I think is an amazing skill set. The next would be mental fortitude. The ability to handle and have some grit. Life is not easy. We learn this all the time. We talk about this on the spot has all the time that growth is where always in the uncomfortable. Always in the struggle. Well, guess what you're not going to deal or you're not going to learn in those moments of struggle. If you do not have mental fortitude, if yours, whoa. As me if you're being a victim, and all that other kind of bullshit that kind of comes with it. So I'd say mental, fortitude, and grit, I kind of group those together. Another thought is ownership constantly looking for the opportunity to take ownership over the circumstance. So then that way we are not over cited by circumstances. And we lose opportunities to learn grow. So taking ownership second. You know, kind of maybe in that space of jujitsu learning how to foster your violence. Maybe maybe there's a better way of saying this. But like, I in fact, I talked with my boys about this. You are violent. You are going to be violent. That's okay. The the the the goal is to how to control it. How to control your violence? Don't make don't demonize it. But learn how to use it. And we can see kids learning how to foster that and control that violence through sports through martial arts through jujitsu, and and all those other things, and and I have to have the segue. But. We see this all the time. Ryan as looted to this on previous podcast, this idea that like Aw defend my family in the time comes. Bullshit. You don't even know what it's going to feel like to be violent. If you haven't been violent with someone. Right. You don't know if you can keep your heart rate down if you can prolong the storm, right? If it some huge guy that you need like foster that, you know, whether the storm and until he gases out or whatever. And so we need to create environments where we have an opportunity to be violent and learn how to control ourselves and that, and that's also part of that mental fortitude. And then last thing that kind of comes to mind is. Having an eagerness to grow and continue to learn that there is no like final. I've learned everything there is to learn right. Like, this constant eagerness. And and seeing the value in learning whether it be academic or trades or new skills, and I think that part will come in and provide value when it comes about being self reliance and lurk working on your own home and being able to fix your car and protect and provide and preside for your family. You know, and that's just going to help in all areas of your life, including your profession, so Cameron. I'm not sure if you're kind of looking for kind of I don't know particular skill sets. But hopefully, this provides some insight and regarding my thought process around kind of these. I mean, I still consider these skill sets. But they're more kind of soft skills. I guess I'm not sure what the term is used for those. So hopefully that helps all right Cody Keller. Kip Sorenson, my wife, and our at my wife, and I are at disagreement. I want kids and she does not this is new help. This is tough. Let me first explain why think this is tough. I would not be the man I end today. I would have not learned the lessons. I have learned. If I didn't have the opportunity to be a father. By far, the most rewarding thing I've ever done is be a dad. I love my kids, and it has been a huge, huge amazing thing. So from my perspective of having children. And then you came to me and said, okay, you know, if you're in the situation, knowing what I know about the joy and the opportunity to grow and learn by having children, and my spouse, no, one have kids, maybe that might be a dealbreaker. But lemme provide you some better insight than just saying, it's a dill breaker in run, right? Because I don't think things are that simple. Right. I think that my wife are in disagreement about wanting kids. We'll why why doesn't she want to have kids like what are the specifics? And what can you do to mitigate whatever risk? Or reason she has for not wanting to have kids now, Cody suggesting any of this for you. Right. I'm not I I don't know what kind of husband, you are anything. So don't don't take this personal. But let me throw out some suggestions. And you see how this might be how this might apply to you. Maybe she doesn't want to have kids because you don't pull your weight, right? Theoretically, what's think about scenario you have a spout? You have. A couple demands not pulling his weight, he works all the time doesn't help at home never picks up after himself. He's a complete ass. He's a jerk. And and he wonders jeez. Well, why didn't you want to have kids? Well, because she doesn't want to do it by yourself. Maybe. Right. So now, maybe that's in your camp. But there's a reason right. Ultimately, we know that there's a reason there's a reason why she doesn't have kids. So I would focus on what is the reason? And how do you mitigate that reason is the reason that she thinks she would be a horrible mom, and she doesn't want to have kids because she's a fear of failure. Whatever. Well, then maybe that's what you should be addressing not necessarily demonize earner for not wanting to have kids. Maybe we focus on helping her to realize how amazing of a mom. She would be right and help her get past some self esteem issues or something else. Right. So I'd I'd focus on the why I want to be so quick to say she doesn't want to I want to have kids. It's dill breaker. I'm. Gone. I would focus on why. And get a better understanding at a true understanding of why? And by the way, when she answers the reason why then you ask another y to that y in another y in you, really go deep into this to really understand where she's coming from. And and you're not asking for this advice to give it to you. Anyway, because we'll I'm talking, and you guys are stuck listening to me. So don't make her wrong. We do this shit. All the time. We had a tendency to listen to someone and they they'll say XYZ go. Well, that's not right. Well, guess what? It's right for them. That's their reality. That's their perception, you don't change people's perceptions guys. And you certainly don't do it through arguing with them. If you're going to change some perception perception, you do it actually by being a lighthouse right by being an example in that causes some change, and they find it for themselves a lasting change because I'll ask you change requires the person to do it on their own not necessarily be forced upon because you're being a jerk or your demonize in them or whatever. So be careful when you had this conversation with their if you're understanding these wise of just understand from her perspective that is her reality. And that will allow you to have some empathy and and try to provide some assistance goal. All right, Geoff Snider, if a machine could exactly duplicate your mind right down to the same pattern of synopsis firing. Would it be you couldn't predict how you would react in every situation? Why and why not Jeff too? Are. You kidding? This is really a cool. Interesting concept. Men in this is where I'm like managed to read all these questions ahead of time. Give some thought to it. So. Let me think for this. Let me think for about this second. This is interesting. I I would pose a question back to you. Jeff is do we believe the synopsis is the only input? We are receiving as a human. If it is. Then I'd say, yes, it would duplicate your thought process in it would it could predict your your reaction to different situations. However. My personal beliefs. I think we're more than just the synopsis sin. I think we get inputs from other things. I really do. I don't wanna go all flu. Here. But I believe in in a higher being I believe that there are spirits, if you wanna use that term around us, and I think we get inputs, right? I think we get suggestions. I think we get promptings. I think we get those things. And I think and I think and I think they should affect the decisions we make so no, I don't think it would be able to predict everything, but if it's the single input that we receive as humans than yeah. I think I mean, theoretically, scientifically the way I understand synapses firing in the brain patterns, and those kind of things for sure for sure the question, then would be why guess new synopsis fire, right? When we learn, and that's how we cause change in in those patterns is by new additional inputs through our reading process through considerations, and those kinds of things. So maybe it would even. Predict future changes in growth, you know, very very interesting concept nonetheless. But but I think there's more inputs to who we are as humans. I don't think it's just an absence fire and all the time. Peter van zeil? What's the most important straightforward simple? New Year's resolution guys. Don't follow. Most important straightforward simple. Man. You know, what guys I'm totally going to listen to this podcast and a couple days, and I'm going to like come up with better answers. I don't know. I to say something here, we're going to record it. And then I'm gonna go that was a lame response. And I probably think of something better later, but. Yeah. So I'll do my best here. So straightforward simple news resolutions. I you know, what I think, you know, we talk about this sometimes in the iron council we've seen it with certain guys where they're struggling in their lives. They're struggling in their relationships in in work in different areas. And usually the recommendation that that I give and I've heard Ryan's give the same recommendation time and time again is start working out just get your down workouts in and the reason why I think personally is because it start you start learning grit. You start doing the uncomfortable. And once you start doing the uncomfortable on a regular basis, and you get out of your own head, then you can deal emotionally with that tough client, then you can deal emotionally with that tough employee. Then you can have the more difficult conversations with the spouse like it really allows us. It's almost like a jump start learning process. I really do think. The physical aspects of our lives. Help us jumpstart into the more, emotional and spiritual sites. If we take advantage of him, so Peter I would say straightforward, simple consistency around workouts? Most guys, aren't and it drives me mad. And and and we can get into all the reasons why not. But regardless I don't think they do and that consistency is key. And and and it comes down to the fact is we don't get quick enough results. In guys start thinking, you know, they'll this isn't working, and then they get in their own heads. So consistency is key. I think workouts are key. And by the way, if you guys that are on the fence around, you know, martial arts or ju jitsu for that matter. That's why do jujitsu man, you know. In fact, I just got done training right before I started this recording. And I spent forty five minutes, forty five minutes probably training with I don't know six other guys and. And four of those roles. I was trying not to be killed. The game. We are playing on jujitsu. Sometimes is you try to kill me. I try to kill you. When you get me in a position where you could kill me. Then I'm gonna tap and you're gonna let go Muslim start over. And the irony is, even though we're not striking when a guy's on my neck, and he's trying to choke me unconscious. I am fighting for my life. So imagine I do that for forty five minutes. And then I come here. And I go off the record this podcast. I'm kinda stressed out about because what I'm really not that stressed out about it. Why because I just like was trying to prevent myself from getting killed for the last forty five minutes. So this kind of puts everything in perspective. Right. So find those sayings man find those areas to to generate grit that are difficult makes other areas of our lives CMO a hell of a lot easier. So and I think in cursing, I swear I I was cursing and swearing mostly because of Ryan, and I think this episode is gonna prove it. I do it on my own regardless of whether Ryan's here. Not. So all right. Jonathan alexander. Do you ever have an did you ever have an awkward stage? If so how did you overcome your self confidence issues? This is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, Jonathan I totally did. Without getting into too much details. Maybe this is some future question. If you guys care to know the details, but the majority of my life, I would say that I felt inferior. I was picked on. I was made fun of all the way probably up in two aspects of that at least lightened up as I got a little bit older. Maybe started lighten up a little bit more by seventh or eighth grade. But I still kind of was very awkward and concerned about what people thought, and you know, what I mean, I don't know all that kind of jazz probably until about my sophomore year in high school to be Frank. The second part is how did I overcome that self-confidence? Here's the irony. I think this is really interesting. And I don't know if I'll do this Justice. I probably have to think about this more to properly communicate this. But. I believe that those times whereas getting picked on and I had low self confidence, and I was getting bullied in and whatnot is a kid. I had them in tally of F you. I'm my own person. I'm this guy. Right. I'm not gonna care. What people think which obviously is me, caring. What people think, but it was more about they're wrong. And I'm right. And I think what I learned around my sophomore junior years. There wasn't a moment. I don't remember the moment. Right. Were this. Switch for me. But I know what the switches and the switch is that I started carrying about those relationships like I actually like instead of making them wrong in me. Right. I actually fostered I was more intentional about how I treated people. I actually kind of cared what people thought, and I know I did care before. Obviously but occurred like I manage the relationship, maybe that's the correct term. And so I managed those relationships, and I was more open and more vulnerable to be honest as more vulnerable with people. I just own stuff. Right. If I sucked out admit like man, I saw write an example of this. I'll give you a perfect example this my freshman year. I didn't play sports as a kid very much. And my first organized basketball team. I played on was actually my freshman in high school. I tried out for the team crazy as it was I actually made the team which like kinda shocked me to begin with and a bunch of kids didn't and I had kids that like railed me all year long about how they should be on the team. And I shouldn't 'cause I suck. And guess what? I did suck. I suck so bad as a freshman. I don't think I scored a basket for the entire season. I was the charity guy like on the last game of the year where my team and my coach is like trying to set up for me to shoot the ball. So I could score. Like, I was that guy. Right. Like like, the bitch would go crazy if Kipp would shoot it, right? And even in those moments. I'd be like I'm not shooting. It. I didn't want the pressure. I was so like looking back at it. I was like Manno so. Lame. But regardless I just owned it though. Right. Like, this is where I started like. Yeah. I know I sucked like instead of like pretending that it was something. I wasn't. I just kind of started accepting the fact that like, yeah, you know, I'm not very good. You know that obviously changed and you're being an amazing basketball player all American. I'm just joking. I wasn't never that. Amazing. I did get a little bit better than make an a single hoop in an entire year. But regardless I think I started owning a little bit. And just started not caring not how do I removed all the meaning as constantly putting around things, and I just accepted it for away. That was and I actually like focus on fostering, relationships even more. Hopefully that your question Jonathan I did my best Jordan mills how long before Kip officially takes over. Yeah. Jordan. It's not happening. You know, here's the deal, and it's kind of funny, but I have to say this. I just don't want to skim over your your funny comment because I know you're kind of joke in a little bit. But guys I have to say this. I I am so committed to this cause and you should too. You really should here's here's the deal. If you're not fighting for something right now about making the world better place within your community within your neighborhood in some other way. If you're not as Ryan would say lighting yourself on fire for others to watch to grow from then you're not being fulfilled as a man. So you know, what you want to cause join us. Join the Gus and make a difference. When alternately we look at what Ryan's attempted to do on this podcast within the order man within the iron council. It's if I had to sum it up, it's about men leveling up and being present in their homes, which also means keeping the family. The unit together and causing men to raise to preside to provide to protect their families. So those families are better off. Are you kidding? What an amazing costs. What an amazing thing to be part of. And I it's just an honor that I'm on for the ride. So and I appreciate Ryan for for even let me have a voice and and a wall with an iron council because I get huge moral benefit from what I do. It's very awesome. Tony urji. Hey, Tony fellow battle team leader. Right battle t Mike in the iron counsel as well as an echo alumni battle t- Meko alumni, Tony's a I consider a good friend and an amazing guy his question. What's the best and worst financial decision that you have made in your life? Best in worse financial decisions. This is actually you guys will appreciate this. In fact, if most of you are feeling bad about your financial situation. Listen the story, and you're gonna feel a lot better. Maybe. Okay. So I'm in the industry. I'm an IT consultant by trade. I was a software developer for years. Now, I help run a practice for a company here in Salt Lake City, where I'm kind of a sure point architect, if you wanna use that term think of knowledge management documents George sharing information sharing those kind of things we have a team of developers a love what I do is super rewarding we help companies become more efficient all that kind of jazz. Okay. So that kind of sets a tone for my career right of what I do. I was living out in New York and running my business my own practice at the time. I moved back to Utah because we're expecting a kid, and we wanted to be here in Utah with family and at the time, we just moved back to Utah. And so it was a little bit on the tough scale from a work perspective because I'm having ramp-up new work client base here in Utah where everything was in New York for the previous years, and I had a good friend Kurt. Move to Utah move to Utah also from New York, but he moved to Utah with the idea of doing tech startup around taxes and Kurt reach out to me and said, hey, Kip, man, I want you to I want you to join me on this venture right on what you to help me on the IT side on the technology side. I think you're fifty and I'm paraphrasing here. But as kind of like curd, you know, I don't know, man. You know, I don't think it's good fit or whatever. And he, and he was awesome. He came back, maybe one other time or so and said, hey, Kip, you know, I've thought about this more, and I really think that you're the right fit, and I love to do work for you or do work with you. Now, here's the reality. Kurtz idea spot on Kurt is a stellar man. Super cool guy love him and his family. He had an amazing idea. But the reality was is I could not invest the time necessary to. Work with him and financially provide for my family because I I wasn't very good at my savings. I didn't have a good, you know, savings where I could draw upon over months of time as we ramp this quote unquote, project up, and and that kind of thing so I never partnered up with her, and there may have been some other things that didn't quite pan out. Right. But regardless this is my from my point of view if ever listens to us. He's probably like what in the hell's he talking about. So anyhow, it didn't work out. Right. What's just say that that idea that Kirk came up with is just killing it? Killing it, really, really, really. Well. In fact, Kerr is doing amazing stuff. Super awesome. He ended up watching the company canopy if he doesn't want to Google canopy here in Utah, Kurdish, just doing awesome. And and I can't help. But think if I was in a position to say, yes and partner up with Kurt that I'd be doing far better financially now than I am. So that would probably be maybe the worst financial decision and the decision just be clear. The decision wasn't to join or not to join Kurt the decision was of to do better at my savings financially for my family, right? If if I were in a position financially, I would have been able to take advantage of that opportunity. But because I wasn't opportunity came opportunity left. And there's nothing I could have done about it. Right. So the lesson learned for me there is be ready. So that way when the opportunities come we can take advantage of. So that'd be my worst financial decision. Luckily. Still friends with Kurt. So I get still hang out with him. In in doesn't think I'm completely worthless for not jumping on board best financial decision. So I sold my practice. Merged. Whatever term you want to use with with a competitor roughly about eight months ago. I would like to say, and I hope that that merger is the best financial decision. I made but it's yet to be determined. So the the runner up though, would probably be when I was working for a company by the name of IM flash. It's a joint venture between Intel and Micron and in the irony was I got outsourced. It was down in the downturn of the economy back in. I think was was at oh six oh seven. We're kind of thanks for taking a hit. They outsource my department for the most part to our counterparts in Singapore or no or India. I can't remember, and I got laid off. And I remember a mealy updated resumes within a couple of days. I got a call from a recruiting company. And they said, hey, we have a contract with the DOD in Virginia. If you'd be interested, and the first thing that crossed my mind is I should start my own business. I should do my own thing. And I remember specifically thinking I'm gonna pitch this to my wife, and I don't think she's going to agree, but I'm gonna try anyway. And this this illustrates helmets, and my wife is I remember coming home that night and said, hey, I have this crazy idea. She's like what I'm like, I think it should start my own business. I have a good severance package from Intel it'll cover art my salary for, you know, a number of months and during that time I'll start ramping up and start my own thing. And if it doesn't work, I'll just go find a job, and that's kind of what I like always held in my back pocket worst case scenario. I just go find a job, and she looked at me. She's like, I love it. Let's do it. And I did that. And roughly for the next eleven years after that. I I had my own consulting company for all intents and purposes nothing crazy sound like I'd hundreds of -ployees. It was like a big firm or anything is myself and a handful of guys at most sometimes. By guess what financially? It was the best decision. I've ever made not only did I have financial freedom. I add freedom of flexibility of time. And everything else. It was. It was awesome. And I loved it. So glad I did it if any of you guys are on the fence of like wanting to do your own thing. Dude. Just try it worst case that doesn't work out. You just go find a job. Dennis Morris key takeaway from your winner. Pat trip with your boys. Yes. So another question about our trip. You know, what I had a key? Takeaway Dennis in all some about all summa summit up by what my seventeen year old said. So we can't that night. Who's who froze her balls off right is super cold? The way down was a little rough. But I told the boys on my K what's skip breakfast. And let's bell out. And then once we get down the mountain, which just go grab some burgers. Right. And they're like, all right. Let's go. So we push through drop off gear. We go. Go grab some burgers. We place our order and we sat down at the booth. Am I seven Sherwood goes? All man, this chair feel so good. And that was my take away. That is why would you hard things that is why I go backpacking with my boys. That's why we rough it up. That's why I do jujitsu because it causes media. Appreciate the simple things made us. Appreciate our beds that night. I appreciated shower I appreciated a hard wooden chair at a Astro burger. Causes us depreciate things. And so that that was my key. Takeaway, the other key takeaway on a more negative note is why we're hiking that night. My boy says man we've been talking about this for years. And I thought epic dad failure, right? What's the perception? We talk about but we don't do. And so I thought about that why we're hiking that night that you know, what I need to act a little bit more. You know, I put work maybe a little too up front. Hey, guys, bad timing works priority. And I don't put priority to recreation. Sometimes and doing things with my boys, especially exciting things. Let's be Frank. Was that big of a deal for me to start hiking at five PM at night and come back down by what eleven no I could've done that. We we could have done this multiple times each winner. But we hadn't because it wasn't convenient. And and. Got me thinking about I need to make sure that convenience does not dry the actions. I make especially when it comes to spending time with my kids. And as you guys have little ones realize man as they get older. You gotta take advantage of that time you have with them it note such a cliche it goes by so quick. But it's also something you can't get back. So find the present live in the present look for those opportunities to make lasting memories. And that's kind of Mikey takeaways from that Dennis. We'll daughter wills question. When I think of Kip, I think of someone who knows how to make a partnership beneficial. What is a practical guide to building great partnerships. I e spouse work and community first off will meant, thanks. I appreciate that impression that you have a million. And I appreciate you staying that. Yeah. So practical guide for building great partnerships. This is off the cuff, man. So I if there's. Some thought process to this might maybe even have something better. But this what comes to mind one integrity honor and guys not the not the bullshit integrity that we get in society. We're going to be honest and have integrity. But, but we have these white lies, and you know, I'm laid to that meeting. Oh, it was traffic and these little lies we tell ourselves, and we actually think other people are buying into that bullshit yet. That's not integrity integrity is extreme. It is like apologizing that you're a couple minutes late. Right. That as an example. Right. So I'm talking true integrity. I think that sets the tone for whether people can trust you or not right? If there's no trust in a relationship, or in a partnership, then everything else is out the window, so integrity spa, Hassi exist. Second authenticity. I know Ryan hates that word. I love that word, by the way, you have noticed you got to be authentic. None of this egos. The opposite of authentic in my opinion is having ego in the way and pretending that, you know, the answer because you don't want to accept that. You're wrong admitting that hey, you know, I don't know or I'll figure it out. Right. So and being raw and real with yourself people respect that I respect that. I can't stand on. And if there's one thing that drives me mad is if I meet someone, and I feel like they're putting on a show or front. I am. I am immediately turned off by the individual. I don't care how successful they are in life. I don't care about their accolades or anything else if they're not them if they're not themselves. I don't like it. And so I think when Roth Antic people know what they're getting. And it's part of what's be honest guys integrity is what it's also part of being authentic. Right. Putting on a front creating a facade is actually kind of dishonest. If you look at the Webster definition of line. I believe it is. Being has obviously being dishonest in there. But it also includes or creating an impression that is not a hundred percent accurate. Holy cow. How often do we do that? All the time people. Do it all the time and people see through it people see through all the time. And we actually think they don't they do. So just be yourself own it, right, and beyond benthic, and and have integrity, another clear communication, transparency and communication. But what I'm really looking for here when I say that is managing expectations. I think that's super critical. It's critical for our relationship with our clients where where I work it is super critical, and it's not because like we're trying to hoodwink or or or anything what the setting the expectations is the clear communication through two parties of what is going to specifically get done. And let's be Frank. Even look for opportunities within your relationship with your spouse setting expectations. Hey, will you do that? Yeah. Sure. I'll do it. Then you do a half ass is that expectation is that setting expertise know, setting expectation is clearly identifying what it is that you will be doing right. And how it's going to be done. Right. I would even argue back to integrity. Sorry. This just came to mind is having integrity is also doing things the way they were meant to be done or should be done. Not just doing them. So there's a little bit of quality work right to that definition of integrity and probably fourth. I would say I don't know if this is the word that like empathy on being empathize or seeking to understand before being understood. I think is the term that Stephen Covey uses I seek to understand then to be understood like that's everything in a relationship where we're having communication if you're communicating from the perspective of just speaking, speaking speaking, but not from the position of trying to understand what the person wants or what they need. Then you're not. Going to be able to set those clear expectations. And then there's going to be a disconnect in regards to what the agreement is. And what's who's doing what and those kind of things so in summary empathy, or maybe it what's slash that? Actually, no empathy number one seek to be seek to understand then to be understood number to honor and integrity, number three authenticity and number four clear communications and managing expectations. There you go. There's the list will. All right. Chris Dalton how does it feel to be in charge? This week Kip. You know, I'll be honest. I'd much rather be talking with Ryan just because it seems like we're seriously guys not that you're asking for this insight. But when we have our every week, I really religious fills like Ryan just sh shot me a call and said, hey, what's going on man? I, you know, I don't know, man. Hey, check out this question. And we just chat about it. That's all we're doing. We're just having a fun conversation. It's actually really enjoyable and so probably not as enjoyable on my own to be Frank. But it would be great. And plus Kennett crack jokes when you're by yourself. I don't even know if it works, right? Does that work is that even funny if I crack a joke, and I like to be funny. So I don't know if I can be funny when when I'm rolling solo here. So or maybe that was just funny that I just said that so are maybe that's funny that I just said, I'm just joking. All right, Chris. Yeah. That's what I got man. Cliff daily. Hey, cliff, man. How's it going kit? Do you feel guilty? Clinton. This old man's clock on the numerous roles we've had in Utah on a more serious. No, you were one person. I've always looked forward to seeing always very friendly and actually concerned about your your wellbeing. Awesome cliff. Man. I appreciate that. You know, what it's funny. I know you're joking around about me cleaning your old man's clock on the mats. But here's the deal though. And if you don't mind me using your comment as a as a soapbox to to talk about something else. One of the benefits of jujitsu. It is an ego destroyer. My ego gets crushed on a regular basis by the time. You are an upper bell in which say upper belt is Brown and black belt butts, hyme Europe, Brown or black. There's no ego left. It's been destroyed by the numerous guys ahead of you that just beat the shed at of you all the time and guys guarantee if you haven't experienced getting the crappy data to you it is humbling. It is humbling. They beat you. He could kill me on the streets. That takes a lot of like two Miltie to come to. That acceptance. Some guys are humbled. Guess what happens to the guys that aren't they leave because they can't deal with it. The can't deal with the humility. So they quit altogether. And they stopped doing jujitsu. That's what happens so cliff. Do there's no pride in me left so clean your old man's clock in the Matt's. Whatever dude everyone gets caught you know, how it is. Should you choose tough? We're there to push each other to roll hard to prep ourselves for for real world scenarios and four competitions. And and it's just an honor to to be able to roll with someone. And and experience what it is to do Jiu jitsu with like minded men like yourself. So it's always an honor cliff. Jeremy Ryan Judd. This is our last question by by the way, So Jerry, Jeremy we're going to get through all the questions, by the way. I don't think Ryan has ever gone through all the questions together. So this has to say, and is a per something the fact that I pulled this off so Jimmy Ryan jet a recent theme on the Facebook group in the ICU is to realize no one can solve my problems for me that if I want to change I'm going to have to actually change. I am going to have to put in the work and eventually make a choice on my own. My question is what final internal reference point. Do you use just before committing to a large life decision? Is it a mental confirmation of having run the facts through your head is intuition, a spiritual or religious confirmation of some sort. What finally gives you the sign to move forward? Or is it all the above? Jimmy is all the above men. For you religious, guys. I maybe I'm being sacrilegious when I say this. I think our creator put us on earth to experience a great deal of suffering pain into figure it out on her own. Now, I don't think that we're solo one hundred percent solo. But I also think that we're here to kind of drudge through to learn lessons through our mistakes to weigh the pros and cons to make a leap of faith, in some cases when necessary so with that in mind, what's my reference point? Let me let me try to think of an example Soren was my company I merged with a company called journey team. Earlier question guys, if hopefully cut the gist of it when I was talking about starting my own business. I was really positive about it. Right. Best financial. Decision. I've ever made in my life. It was awesome. Super great. So you think me selling quote unquote in now working for another company was a hard decision to be made for sure super tough. So what was my committing was my reference point. I I value added all the facts, I ran into my head. Here's my top five concerns. How do I dress concerns are the valid concerns? What's the financial impact? What's emotional impact? What's the impact on my time? Right. And what's long game? Right. One of the analogies. I love this analogy is I think Jaakko mentioned this on his podcast maybe a month or so ago where he was saying that if your goal in your career is to what's what we're referencing it to a game. Right. If you're if your career your game that you're playing is to earn twenty points a game. Then soccer's not a good game for you. Right. Soccer has a cap you're not going to make twenty points in the game of soccer, but you are in basketball. So if that's your goal, you should be playing basketball same thing in our jobs. Right. And that was one of the things I considered is in this game of working for another company. How much can I score? What's the final score? Is this the right game for the long run? Right. And that was one of my decisions. So I ran through my mind worked and through discuss them with my spouse because we're a partnership, right? We make these decisions together. There was some intuition there some gut checking of an and the key thing was it wasn't just a generic like a gut. Check mineral. I am bothered. There's a portion of you. That's bothered by by this move. What are they? What were the key things that are keeping me up at night? And he has went the irony here guess who I communicated those gut checks with. The owner of the company that was part of our conversation. Right. What am I concerned about? These are the things that concern me. Right. I'm concerned about this. I'm concerned about my schedule. Right. Do I have the flexibility of golden jujitsu midday is going to go away because that's very much part of my life. Right. Very much part of what kind of makes me who. I am. Right. Other concerns was financial, of course, when you own your own business. There's a lot of tax write offs that come with owning your own business and integration, and those kind of things those are going to go away as a W two employees right is is a financial compensation sufficient, right? There's another aspect of owning your own business, your identity your pride in growing your own thing, where am I going to get that from right? If I go to another company, so these are kind of these gut checks right things that kind of bothered me. I had to think about how to figure out why does this bother me? And then once identify with those are I had that clear expectation and communication of. Hey, these are the areas that are bothering me. And this is why and we'll walk through those. And then lastly, do not think I kneeled and prayed and has asked for spiritual guidance from regards to maybe if this is the right decision for me and my family. Hell, yeah. I did. And I just said talked about praying and said hell, yeah. Right after. So that's not a really good example. I know so regardless. Yeah. I think it's all of those man, I think it's logical breakdown. I think it's understanding the intuition that gut check, and I and for me, it's also includes that that spiritual confirmation side of. Yeah. You know, what I'm feeling better about this? So it's all of those Jeremy at least for me. So. All right, guys. I promise you. I'm not going hit stop and play. And then re record this damn thing. We're an hour and eight minutes in. This is this has been a good ride is been good. And these questions are awesome guys in in. Appreciate you guys answering the call from Ryan to answer these to ask these questions, and hopefully some of these kind of some of these responses kinda give you guys insights in regards to my thought process around what we're doing. So as you guys can support this movement. I talked about this earlier, right? If you're not fighting for something finds something to fight for and and if you like this fight disorder of man fight. Spread the word, and you can do that by subscribing once the podcast to share in the podcast or doing a rating review, whether it be on itunes, Stitcher or whatever aggregate or that you use for your podcasts. Help help the movement prolong. And by the way, the call is being answered that iron council. The iron council brotherhood in which which help run with Ryan. I think we've had a record members. Join like over the last month, it has been awesome and guys are getting on the court and looking for opportunities to level up. And and it's it's been huge. So continue continue sharing. Continue sharing the the message and most importantly continued being the lighthouses to those in your life. And be the example that that everyone needs that your family needs that your community needs that your friends need be that man to show them the way. If you want to submit to future AMA podcast episodes once again, you can join us on peachy on dot com. Ford slash order of man. You can also join us on Facebook at Facebook dot com forward slash groups Ford slash order, man. And lastly, you can join us within the iron council, and that's order MandA comforts. I shine council. You can fall Mr Miller at Ryan Miller R Y A N M I C H L ER on Instagram. You can follow me on Instagram at Kipp Sorenson. That's K. I P P S O R E N S E N. And then you can also follow Ryan on Twitter at order of man Jomon. It's been a pleasure. If you look in person swag jump onto. Order man dot com. And visit the store I think we have an array of t shirts. I think we still had the beanies that are available in a few other things appreciate you guys and what you're doing. And I didn't script this part. But. Take action and become the manual mentality. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You ready to take charge of your life would be more of a man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at quarter of man dot com.
Order of Man: Protect | Provide | Preside
Aired 4 months ago 104:08
722: What Matters Most in a Difficult Conversation | Q&A w/ Andrea J. Lee
Oh, so I was thinking, is this from one of your weekly Facebook live events do with our alumni in our private group kind of, but it's really not so random. All right, Johnny laid on me. I was looking through the Rosser guys coming through boot camp this week and they're coming in from all over. Yeah, I saw that two guys from Dallas, Philly, Atlanta, San Francisco, two guys from Canada, and even one from Melbourne, Australia. We've always attracted students from all over the world because there really is nowhere else to learn what we teach. So true because the skills we teach our for more than just dating and relationships, the guys that come through apply them to business, making more friends and networking, which often leads to more opportunities and more money. Quite frankly, I've seen so many of the guys leave our program, go home and keep working on these things. Then of getting a gauge, get a promotion or how even start their own businesses that seems to be. Al goes Johnny and you don't meet. I'm going back to the science on this one. The reason our bootcamp delivers for so many guys. And now the ladies to is because it's based on proven social science strategies that you put into practice when you're with us in LA and it's the practice and on the spot feedback that really changes things. So if you're ready for some change, if you want to improve your social skills to get better at relationships or at business, go to the Arte charm dot com slash bootcamp. Now, you'll see an overview of the program and even hear about my own personal struggle with social anxiety. Again, that's the art of charm dot com slash bootcamp to find out more details. Welcome the charm podcast. I'm AJ and I'm Johnny, and we're glad you joined us on our weekly podcast. We show over a decade of coaching experience to teach you the social skills you didn't get in school. If you're new to the podcast, welcome. We run in person training programs in Los Angeles that focus on improving your social skills. We work with thousands of clients from all over the world, and we want to share the most valuable parts of that training with you here on this show and each episode of our chime, we bring you the practical tips and strategies to make you feel more confident in any situation, whether it's a day job or Lord social gathering, like a networking event you're anxious about or even that holiday party each month. We cover a theme directly from our boot camp to help you strengthen your social skills. We spent last month teaching, you Hotta make conversation more compelling and this month we're learning all about emotional bids. Right? And AJ what is in the most general bid? Basically emotional. Bid is any attempt from one partner to another for attention, affirmation affection or any kind of positive connection an all month. We've been asking you to submit your questions about emotional biz because we wanna know what you're struggling with. We covered a lot in the last three episodes this month, but getting good at identifying emotional bids and then responded them effectively isn't something we learn overnight, which is why we believe in dedicating an entire episode each month to your questions, and it's something we really love doing because answering your questions is a big part of the learning process. Our clients experiencing our boot camps. So today we're going to answer some of your questions and joining us to help is Andrea Jay Lee, an accomplished coach, a successful author, and a domestic abuse activists, be sure to listen out for Andrew as personal stories about overcoming social anxiety and uncomfortable hurdles. She had to pass an order to become a coach and definitely tune in for Andrea simple model for how to affectively make big changes in your own life. It's a process. She calls the delta model. Andrew algebra shows some great mantras and how to turn the most challenging moments in your life and teachable moments. That's right. She has some great phrases that just stick in the back of your mind. Easy to grab. You're not having a great day. We're really excited for you. Join us on this show and can't wait to talk with Andrea j Lee. So let's get started. So it is the last week of our emotional bid month, very happy to be wrapping this topic, and we have some questions. We're going to be tackling a little bit later in the show from our audience around emotional bids and general topics as well. We're excited today to be sitting with Andrew Lee, an accomplished coach, mentor, author, and most recently, a strong voice against domestic abuse, having experienced abuse from both ends of the spectrum, both as the victim and the perpetrator. She has some unique insights to offer our audience what it takes to stop abuse, redeem yourself, and rebuild those fractured relationships. We're going to be delving into that as well as how emotional bids come into play and drawing boundaries, of course, is a big topic. We're gonna delve into. I'd love to hear I a little bit of the backstory behind where we are today. So obviously, having been abused and then turned into someone who was abusing someone else. How did you come to that realization that. Things were not working in your life in this area. You know, it's actually a really powerful moment love to share a little bit of detail on, because here's the thing that I know about abuse it's happening around us. We don't even really realize it. There can't be this many people who are experiencing tough conversations, toxic relationships without there being someone behaving badly in that, right? So it's actually an every day thing and not something that most of us think about which is part of the problem. So if I may, I'd love to tell you about a time when my younger brother, his name was Edward who's actually legally blind. He was sitting on his bed at home, picked her with his glasses strapped his face with the, you know, the big thick strap, his fingerprints all over his lenses. You know, you can pick your him to sitting there on his bed. My dad was nearby in my dad is a workaholic how many of us can relate to be really into our work, but also. So very angry person. He was looking at my brother Eddie with this like disbelief on his face. And when he when he said something, his voice was like cold and hot. At the same time, he went to hit them. Okay. In that that was my defining moment in this Eichel of bad behavior. I on froze. And instead of doing nothing, I hit my dad instead, I hit him instead. And the reason I share this is I think, and you know, you guys tell me I've been told it's a very relatable moment in defense of someone you care about in defense of something something or a situation that isn't optimal. It's like a person in a less powerful place. I became the aggressor. I got my first taste of power in the form of aggression, and that's really the doorway through it. I stepped in. Started to become emotionally abusive my relationships and would so fascinating. I feel like with that story is we often don't realize how being abused can lead to us abusing later in life, and this gets imprinted on us in our youth. That's the way that I felt I could interact. Right? You're you're given tools that you're giving and those tools may not always be the best tools as much as our parents loved ones try to support us, and it's fascinating that you came to the realization of breaking the cycle and then speaking openly about it. I feel like a lot of us who've been the victim of abuse one may not even know we are the victim because it may just be our definition of normal and two. We may not realize that now we're perpetrating it on others, right? And for those people who are sitting that position who maybe are now having a realization that they are the victim and maybe they've been. Perpetrator, what can you say to them to break the cycle of abuse? Well, I just briefly what what is this thing we call abuse so that we have a little bit of a container for it. Emotional abuse in particular, is any behavior that creates lasting harm, particularly on the wellbeing of the person. So the self esteem, the sense of worth. That is the general broad category of abuse. Obviously, there's a huge spectrum of that, but lasting harm to the wellbeing of the individual is the definition I like to use. So how do you, how do you break the cycle? I mean, that's such a moral question. Actually, I think that you guys here at art of charm, everything you do here actually is an answer to that. So every single podcast, every single boot, the social interactions and all of that confidence building goes toward a more peaceful abuse free world. But if I were to give you one. Unspecific thing that is maybe actionable. It would be from a book called the power of the positive. No. And it's by Dr. William Yuri in what he talks about is essentially the topic of boundaries. It's applicable in corporations, it's applicable in families. It's applicable in bands rock bands or probably a really great place to learn how to say yes, knows looking at you, Johnny. So learning to say no, so that your yes is real is the key skill set to help defuse abusive or toxic behavior in relationship? I think one of the things you had mentioned earlier is a lot of us don't know when that's happening to us, or perhaps the our definition of it is different. So to get to the realization that I am somebody who is sustaining damage, and I would also think that if your definition. Is vague than and you don't stop it that it's going to continue to you the rest of your life because you'll be those relationships will be the normal and the you will seek those relationships out. So to get to a point where the tough decision and the the hard honesty with yourself away, I'm in an abusive relationship. I seek these out. There is a pattern. That's such point, and it's very true. I know for me. The way that I was raised started with physical abuse. My parents were separated by mom was the physical abuser, but my dad through the physical abuse that my mom put him through e became verbal abuser. And a lot of times his anger overwhelmed both me and my sister. And then as I grew up, that was normal to me. I didn't even realize until the courts stepped in and basically said, your mom is unfit to be your mother. So that was jarring as good. All right, to hear that and that tough conversation for you of realizing that you were a perpetrator. What was the Genesis around that. Well, I tell this story not very offense. This is probably the first place that that it would tell this in this intimate setting. So you know, the police came to the door of the apartment. My husband and I were living in at the time and someone neighbor in that -partment complex had called the police because they thought I had been being beaten by my husband and that's Capri, farther from the truth. My husband is like the most upright loving Mench of a man that there is, and it was me in fact, slamming doors and having a big rage full episode that had created the noise at sounded like I was being beaten, but I wasn't. And then the police, what was the last offer me? Honestly, maybe you guys can relate is that the police looked at my, my husband as if he had been beating me and it was those is. Of accusation that pierced through my consciousness. The unjustness of that accusation was what woke me up. It was that dark night of the soul like this ain't okay. I need to be responsible. I have to be the one to draw the line in change. Right? And I think for me, the realization through that blog article and and then thinking and reflecting on past behaviors and seeing the pattern of my dad's anger started verbally at first, but then the the reinforcement was the silent treatment after, right? So it'd be an outburst of anger and then withdraw, and that became my way of dealing with my emotions, and it just became easier to withdraw. And and as I started to realize my past behaviors. I started to think about how the pain that was being caused on both sides. Right? So this cycle effects a lot more people than we're willing to admit. I think there's also a lot of confusion wrapped up in that abuse where it's through the the right lens. It could almost be seen as the strong passion that this other person has for me. My earliest relationships was with a girl who who had a bit of a temper, and my friends and I, we used to say that her favorite thing to do was to get drunk and break my stuff. And of course, everyone else around me is like, she's crazy. What are you doing? And I'm like, I'm thinking we're in this very passionate relationship. This is this Adly love with me. Love. This is how much she loves me, right? And I don't know where that confusion was, maybe because my because of the chemicals are going on and be of my interest in her, and I apologize I couldn't help it smell. When you mentioned that the cops came to the door with prompted this story, which was I didn't realize that I was in this mess until the neighbor girl's came over to the house, and they're like, listen, you seem like a really nice boy, but you have to get away from this girl. I we can't take it anymore. 'cause they were just hearing all the screaming and hollering and clay. You know, she get drunk and getting her car and do donuts in the yard. And I'm like, she loves me as great. I guess when you're young like that, it's it can easily. It can be confusing like that. And I also feel like it's it's always easier. Third party. Right, right. Easier. Friends. If people around, you'd be like that. No, Blaine l. when you're in it, it feels real and it's triggering a lot of different emotions and those strong emotions work both ways, right? Anger and love can feel the same in those moments like she's incredibly passionate for me, which I didn't understand was how abuse of the relationship that she had grown up in was. And of course she carried that ours and I guess you don't like the see people that you love or so interested in care about as messed up. Right, right. That's a hard thing to accept and certainly was for me, that was like the first real relationship that had been. It was really hard to. That I think one of the things I would add to that great 'lustration is society really isn't our friend on this topic. When you think about the number of movies that show women and men all of us humanity behaving badly, and we laugh at it, we celebrate it. We share it. We're like the frog in the boiling water as far as abusive behaviors, concerned that the only explanation for how leaders in all sectors of our world are getting away with us really, or horrible behavior to go along with that. I have to agree with you one hundred percent because I saw a relationship as we were sitting Mansi looked very turbulent out of control. We're always drug. It was the romanticized to the hilt. Of course, the neighbor girl's like now this is awful. Do good for the neighbor girl's. I love you neighbor girls out of their. Thanks for being something to Johnny 'gas. Yeah, it can be different. And with that, right, the glamorization of the resolution at the end, right? The movie, it happens and either laugh at it or they get back together and there's a nice tidy resolution. But in most cases with abuse, it's not tidy ending. It's it's not a resolution that we want. And our listeners probably to visit emotional bid month, why are we talking about this? And and we were talking yesterday about this that fine line right when when people are giving emotional bids, as we talked about with Michael Sorenson, there are positive and there are negative emotional bids. And sometimes people will resort to negative emotional bids, angry outbursts, wind, their positive bids have been turned away from well to go along with that, how neglect plays a role and sustained damage that as hurts that's stays on. And so we'll be discussing that as well. Obviously, being coach working with clients over the last twenty years. I wonder in your experience, obviously you're now bringing. To light these abusive stories sharing with our audience night. Thank you for that. How many of us have been through the abuse cycle realize that were wrong and then seek out mentorship, seek out coaching, and in your situation, was coaching and working on yourself, improving yourself, apart of breaking that abuse? Eichel. One hundred percent is in a big enough answer, but you know how it's like you don't say hundred one percent because that doesn't exist. But yes, I mean, I mentioned it earlier, but you're the work that you do at art of chime. For example, I used to be painfully shy, painfully socially awkward could not say a peep to anybody in public like person. So investing in myself, whether it be through great books or programs or in percent gatherings with people who are focused intently on the better version of ourselves without that, I would never be able to sit in front of you and say. You know, now we have a relationship. That's really it's a model for how to get beyond because here's the good news Jim on here the good news beyond that abusive relationship is the wonderful passionate relationship, but passionate in a good way when you've converted that anger energy into wonderful passion energy. The happily ever after is I think better in some ways than if you've never experienced this kind of struggle. And I feel like there are many coaches and mentors out there who have come from broken backgrounds, work through themselves, and now want to share this and unlocked this potential and other people. I think it's very easy for a lot of listeners, and a lot of people to assume that the coach has a sterling background. The has they've had it figured out their entire lives in large part. A lot of times these moments, these critical moments in our life and. Inspire us enough, not only to change, but then impact other people to help them change in break the cycle. Would you prefer to go sailing with someone who's never been in a storm or go with someone who's been through every storm imaginable? See six, probably. But definitely an experienced captain who's been through some storms. And honestly, the analogy I liked us, I like to food analogy is because my husband's a chef, I love very blessed us how many of you enjoy odors, you know, just a plate of oysters. You know that sometimes when an oyster gets a piece of grit inside it like that thorn in your foot when you're hiking, the oyster creates a Pearl out of that grit. So if the grid is whatever struggle that you have in your life, whether it be, you know, inability to understand emotional bidding quite yet or inability to socialize well or inability to get that promotion. That piece of grit is what starts the Pearl. In fact, I feel sorry for the doesn't get a grit, the it never gets experience a Pearl. So I like to put that idea on it. 'cause you know, when we talk about these things can feel very tough like will crack. Thanks a lot. Now, I'm aware. Right. And a lot of times when you're in it, you don't think there's going to be a better side to it. Right? You only see what's before your nose. And I think it's important to be vulnerable and be honest about our background so that those listening who are going through it can see the silver lining, see the other side or at least the an opportunity to break the cycle in and remove themselves from the situation. I feel like particularly maybe for our women listeners, but certainly for everyone that we have a collective fear of being vulnerable as you say AJ and it actually is a doorway. It's such a doorway to a Dory to everything we want. You talk a lot about it in your past episodes yen. I feel like the more that I've opened up about my past as difficult as it's been over the years, whether it's with friends or family, or even with the audience, the deeper, the connection that I've. Able to forge has been, and we talk about emotional bids as the start of that connection. It's it's what we need to pay attention to the other person offering a little bit of owner ability, whether, hey, come check this out or, hey, I'm struggling need your help need this attention. I feel that that Volmer ability that comes through the other side of not only dealing with the issues, but being open enough to share the issues creates a much deeper connection allows other people to see you as more whole. Obviously, in the social media world, everyone wants to project the most perfect version of themselves. And we, we laugh about how many photos we delete before we post that one that we like. But these are those critical moments in my life that have made me stronger individual that have driven me and motivated me to push beyond my limits emotionally mentally, physically, so that I can get to the other side. And I think a lot of this breaking the cycle is also around having a tough conversation, and many of us are. Too afraid to have the difficult conversations with our abuser. We are terrified of stepping into that unknown because we don't want to rock the boat and you are an expert in tough conversations having gone through this. So in those moments where you're feeling fear in you, you know that something is wrong and you want to say something, but you just can't bring yourself to it. What some advice that you'd give to our listeners who now maybe are recognizing some of these patterns themselves. Having heard us share and just don't know where to begin to break that cycle. I am of the belief that it is really important to have this conversation with yourself. I, it's the rehearsal. Before having the conversation with the actual human being, you might be thinking of internal emotional bids. I like to think of them as like I'm having my own bid for my own attention for my own conversation Hulo. How about that? So the model for tough conversations that I like to use that I have coached and taught for a number of years I call it. The delta model at delta is like it's a nice triangle shape. So I I like the name. So there's three points that the delta model for conversations and super simple, super easy to remember. Really, it can be used in almost. I can't think of a circumstance where you can't use it and you can use it for yourself. So where am I now? That's the first question on the three. Where am I? Now, you know what listening today? Maybe you have some statements now that are along the lines of crap. I realize something about one of my relationships, deep breath. This is making. Me a little, you know, whatever it is freaked out or concerned or woah, hang hang on a minute and and whatever other stream of consciousness you can come up with the answer to where am I? Now that's the beginning of the tough conversation. 'cause you know, just like with the DP s you can't get anywhere unless you know where you are. So where am I now is the first question. The second question is, where do you wanna go? The GPS model actually fits it. Where do you wanna go? All right. In this moment, if you're realizing you're having a tough relationship, where would you like to be? Oh, maybe I'd like to have a conversation with this person that went well. Maybe I'd like to be out of this relationship. Maybe I don't know, but I'd like to have clarity about where liked to go. Maybe I'm confused about it. Those are all desires for a place you're not so where where would you like to go second question in this model for having tough conversations in the third and final question is, okay. I know. I am. I know I wanna go, how do I get there? Right? How do I get there in? That's a big conversation. There's lots of ways like again through coaching or mentoring, or speaking with a colleague or a new friend, whatever it is. There's a lot of work entailed in the answer to number three. But hopefully if you have this three point conversation with yourself, you'll start to gain an awareness of how to have that conversation with the person you have in mind, ROY, and I feel that it takes self reflection. I right. You can't figure out where you wanna go. If you have no idea of what the starting points and looking internally for me was a big first step, getting that information realizing, whoa. Okay. I thought internally that I was behaving certain way now I realize I wasn't. Okay. What are the. In other moments that have been critical that I may have been mistreating. Others may have been abusing the people that I cared about and this delves now into that boundary conversation. Right. And for me, one of the most impactful conversations I had were a boundary was being drawn was with someone stating said, I don't feel loved when you treat me this way. And it was jarring to hear that obviously because you love care about this person, but it is about being firm in what you need a human to feel loved supported needed versus the behavior that's being exhibited from the other person that isn't checking those boxes for you. Yeah, I think what you're pointing to is is really helpful when we're in a conversation. The thing to remember is there's more than one of you. So if you use the delta model to get clear like you did right AJ where you are in an ideal scenario, the other person person be, let's call them is doing the same. Okay. That's not always the case. That's why we get into trouble if that's like it. Maybe you could have them listen to this podcast. But then if both person a and person b. have done that sorting out, then the conversation is gonna go much better. Then we can have those same three questions apply to the two of you. Where are we? Now, where do we wanna go and how are we going to get there? A lot of the mess that happens in conversation happens because those things aren't covered. One person hasn't gotten themselves clear or both. And then together they have an ask those same questions, ROY, and a lot of times in that situation, one party will be the one who gets those boxes checked in the other party. Just kind of takes agreement with it, but they aren't as prepared for that conversation. Yes. And you know where boundaries comes in is yes is said without boundaries. And my opinion is just appeasement. That's just a piece -ment. Right. And knows. Said without compassion is just outright warfare, sometimes conversation. So we actually need to talk about the relationship between yeses knows when it comes to batteries. I feel a lot of times when the boundary is drawn both sides actually feel some relief because it adds clarity. Yes. So in this situation, we're gonna talk about one of the questions a little later here that Michael brought up about emotional bids and being too needy and and feeling like you're constantly agreeable most times the other person sitting across from you doesn't even realize that they crossed. They didn't even realize that there was a boundary in that they were hurting you. They are impacting in a negative way and that conversation is difficult as it may feel to you not having set boundaries allows both parties to feel some level of comfort. It clarifies things in a way that can meaningfully move the relationship forward. I mean, I think that if both parties are there because they generally care about each other, that should be easy. If if that isn't the case in somebody's there to to get something from the other person or use that other person than. Find that out as well. And of course, that's a converse separate conversation, but also you'll be moving to, you'll be going to a different place as she were saying, yeah, this is a chance I'd like to point out to be a hero in your life because most of us are complacent kind of running around going. I'm having bad conversations and toxic relationships, and hopefully that's not you, you're, you're listening. So you are already taking positive action. We love that about you, but if you are willing to actually go into this and say, look, I I heard about this way of having conversations with three questions. Would you be willing to go through them with me and see if we can have better conversations going forward? You know what? I give you the boy scout or girl scout badge right away for being a leader. One conversation at a time, it really becomes infectious your role modeling for the people around you, whether you have kids, or you have nephews or brothers and sisters, parents, you can learn. Learn to have a better conversation. And to me, that's the biggest like superhero role. You could play in your life and there's two frames going on there that I really enjoyed the first is that your not coming in and saying, do this do that you're using questions and questions allow both of you to reach the conclusion together. The second thing is you're not coming in as the expert just because you read something from someone else. You're actually crediting them saying, hey, look at these three questions I found from so and so versus coming in and making demands of the other person. And when you set both of those frames, it allows both parties to participate more freely when you start making acusations or making demands or pushing on the other person. Oftentimes you're just gonna. Find them retreat and resolution is nowhere to be seen. I love how you put that. In fact, I would just take a moment to highlight that really what we're describing right now is in fact, what I think of as the essence of coaching is to lead with. Questions, take a coaching approached your relationships in your life instead of telling instead of dictating set of demanding when you get into a right coaching relationship. This is what happens is that everybody gets to let their guard down, feel safe in like they belong that their voice will matter in then together. You got to move forward in all the years that I've had of coaching, whether it was from athletics to business coaching relationship coaching. I've found that win questions are used and your interrogated and given a platform to explain yourself. That's when the breakthroughs actually occur. It's our favorite thing to do in class. We ask a lot of questions allow everyone else to fill in his answers, so then they can determine exactly where they're at. It's it's an amazing thing and it's more impactful because when the person being coached reaches the conclusion through answering the questions, they feel empowered to take action versus the coach telling someone here follow this formula do specifically this, oftentimes they'll stop. Step one step two because they don't have any passion behind that action. They're, they're being dictated to a lot of times. It's more passive. If we can ask the right questions, we can unlock your potential. And that's what the best coaches do. Ask yourself. In fact, in this moment, ha ha. What I did there ask yourself where in your life, you could up level the culture of your every day experience. How could you up level? So they're more questions in each of those segments. Where could you get more questions about your relationships? Well, here art chime, great. Where Jill have better questions about your career. Where could you up level the questions you're asking about your financial wellbeing and then no, this, no, that you yourself. Have the power to do that up leveling by asking yourself more questions, asking the delta model questions. It's such a simple intervention. Anybody can do it any day anytime. It's a great. Level. And my favorite question is why I find that so many of us were creatures of habit and we build up these habits, routines and patterns oftentimes without even thinking through them, whether we passively absorb them from our family members or from the workplace. And I know even in the business coaching that we're getting currently, my coach Matt will ask, why are you doing it that way? And then I stopped to think, and I go, I don't know girl. No, so wonderful thing to to get to that point as well because also these things they get hardened and compound over time. So a question like that like, well, it's what we've always thought, okay, we'll great, but it who started this right? And then you start to think about it and he's like, well, okay, we'll were they marketing expert. Let's say. Well, no, they were just one of our staff members and idea are doing it. Okay, we'll have the results been impactful. You know, I, I don't know. And when you start hearing, I don't know as a coach that's when the Magic's happening because now you start to make real realizations in your life and you can change these patterns. And I think that's the most impounding. You don't have to be a slave to these patterns, and also we're living in a world today where those asking an answering those questions is is a difficult thing because you might not like what the answer is at. So because an and we had it his difficult conversations, difficult questions, how many people today the minute they get uncomfortable automatically pick up the phone and go to Facebook, so they don't have to deal with having the have that where some of us wants that question, it's popped up, can't do anything. But answer that question like a dog with a bone. I mean, one of my favorite things to us in coaching is a little saying in that is learning is what happens only when we don't know what to do if you know what to do, you have you're not learning something. So the comfort with discomfort that Johnny you're referring to is again, another leadership skill and being able to be patient through that not knowing is I think a sign of mature nervous system. Okay. Someone who isn't reflexively you know, knocking this beautiful art of try mog off the table, you know, doing donuts in the car, whatever it is so celebrate. If you can not knowing with the understanding that that's when you're learning something new that's going to break out of your your habitual groups. And I feel the other. Other common thread that we both get in here as coaches is how to be more authentic. And a lot of times we have these patterns running and we have this agreeable nece about us, and we want people to like us and it leads us down a path of in authenticity. How can our listeners become more offensive now that they've realized some of these things about themselves to present themselves in a way that allows them to actually feel more comfortable as well? Right? Because authenticity leads to a lot of the anxiety that we're all feeling my personal experience with authentic city. There's so much that can be said, but something slightly different. I hope is that it's just a question of practice. It's just about rehearsing being scented. So let's say you have a new truth about yourself that you know because of what we're talking about. I talk about it to yourself, practice it. So for me, it was, hey, Andrea, you know, you've an anger. Issue. You know, that's that's really heartbreaking to admit and say to myself, but what a relief to tell the radical truth about it. I myself that's often Tissot to myself again, let's talk about these things from the roots, right? The tree bears fruit based on the health of the routes. So this off entity that we're speaking of, I would really encourage you to think about it as practice with yourself, whether it's when you look in the mirror and you putting moose in your hair, right, Johnny. And you say, you know. Very technical term. With the whole LA scene in hair products. He clearly. Up where I live in the country. We just kind of like, okay, I have hair today really notice, but yet creating a new habit for yourself. Really to tell the truth to yourself. I like to piggyback on habit change science, which says that when you're wanting to create a new habit, the best way to do it is to hook it to something that you're already doing a habit. So maybe hopefully you're rushing your teeth every day. Let's say. So that might be a great time to try and tell the truth about yourself in some new way so that you're practicing this authentically muscle rut. I know one of the things that we've talked about previously is allowing those moments that are routine already to be the springboard for other routines. Perfect. And when it comes to my morning routine, it started off as just that brushing my teeth, but now it's a little more complicated. We knocked out six and a half miles this morning. Never would have thought that'd be part of my morning routine, but now working out is a big part of the routine and creating the space for this to happen to. I think another big problem with being in authentic is that we don't create the space for that authentic to actually blossom we run away from it. We duck it these tough questions, asking yourself. I'll do that tomorrow. I'll do that next week. I got something else. It's so easy to find ipad. The phone do something that is a lot less painful. But when we start to ask ourselves simple questions, why am I doing this? Why am I getting so upset by this? The answer that we find is one reflective but to clarifying for the next step of growth. Exactly. You can take action from that place in a much more powerful place along with authenticity comes confidence and being more self assured. And I know a lot of our audience is struggling with that, especially in the workplace, the feel that their career demands this level of self-assured, nece in confidence, but they don't feel it internally. And I know personally, I had moments of imposter syndrome even and I'd love to hear your coaching perspective for our audience that is struggling with some confidence in their career and how can they work to overcome that lack of confidence that lack. Of self-assured nece to become more impactful in the workplace. When the coaching techniques that I like the most for this particular topic is something I call transferring excellence. And this has been studied actually within the domestic violence world, but also in the leadership studies world. And all it is is to look for a place in your life that you have even the tiniest speck of confidence. I think of it as bread, crumb of confidence. Maybe when I think back the cute little nerdy Asian girl that I was, you know, I was kinda confident at writing like I wrote my diary at first. It was because my dad made me, but then you know, like I started to enjoy writing my diary and you know, I can't tell you that at that time I was so self aware that was like, oh, I'm confident in my IRA. So I do, you know, that's not how it went down. But you know, now a days when I'm looking for more competences, I go out into bigger arenas for my own thought leadership in my own new work, bigger arenas and bigger stages. I have to go back to these little red crumbs where I can touch that confidence in what the science says is that if you go there, you and you have that you can connect that you can transfer that to through the power of mindfulness through all of those good visualization techniques to the new arena. You want to find confidence in. I love that of getting a little momentum going in the right direction off of these things that were already doing and enjoying can lead to further confidence. Yeah, each breadcrumbs I like to say again, another food analogy, breadcrumbs bread, crumbs, bread, crumb. All of a sudden you have a crew time. Okay. Putting aside the gluten free issue for right now for your watch. I got to really be aware of place, but like you know, even if it is a gluten free crew on which I am eating gluten free right now, one tonne converts a hall salad eating experience. So one red, criminal time, confidence. Again, you can't think you're way to confidence run. I really think that's an important point. I'm glad it came out of my mouth. It's one of those things where like, oh, I'm gonna read a book about confidence, and you got gotta practice confidence. So we were just chatting about this yesterday and we have an online product that lot of people really enjoy doing it. It's put together to help them work through social anxiety. And of course, a few of the first missions may on their face value, seem simple and even easy. And so we've a few people were like, well, yeah, I haven't done it because, well, that's a really easy thing. So waiting for the harder stuff. And it's like the way the. Fusion's told yourself is so you don't have to phase the uncomfortable as of this mission. And this is exactly why you need to be doing it though. It may be easy in that moment you doing. It is great to add that breadcrumb that experience for the next one. Because when the hard-won those come up more than you're freaking out because you have it work yourself up to that, they'll your confidence before you need it just like with to go out and be like, hey, so, and so I really hope you'll end my book or give me coaching on my new job or whatever it is the day you need it right, build it before you need it or love that. How many times we hear from people who have freaking out. Because all of a sudden they have this new task at work or thrown in some situation and they're just freaking out because they haven't done any of that work because they have been waiting for the big one right here it is. And now you're, you're flailing in your freaking up in a big fan. Factor of confidence is experience, and it's funny you should mention that because it make yourself do anything these comfort zone challenges that you get over seven weeks. They're small, they're easy. They're meant to be not a second job, right? Not aside also, but they're meant to be something you can tackle quickly. But those experience points opened the door to more confidence. And it was funny on the the group call that we had inside the course I was asking what their favorite challenges were and a problem admitted. I didn't do any of the challenges because it seemed to easy. And then one of the participants said, you know, I ended up doing an easy challenge, the high five challenge and I met my girlfriend by doing the high five challenge. I never would have thought that thou led to a conversation and actually when I read it, I thought it was pretty easy. But when you start putting yourself out there in these small ways, bigger moments happen and it's through gaining that experience that you have the confidence to step forward in the. Further arena. I really enjoyed the person who mentioned that they were but nervous about doing it. But then they had also roped their children into doing the challenges as well, and they're doing it as a family and they're now they're having a blast with it. Yeah. Now his sons are running around ask you dad, what's the next comfort zone challenge? I wouldn't do it. I want go talk to this person as incredibly beautiful. I actually have an example, can I share of young mom who I used to coach who with having a lot of trouble with her business, and we were trying to get this point through this exact point. We're giving coaching gold from these these calls and she had a new baby and she was watching this baby and its development. And of course, as any mom, right? Any of you mom's listening can can attest. It's like there's so much learning from your child's development and to the point where making here when you look the baby's development. You'll notice that what they're doing is bread crumb oriented. They're moving a hand. They're moving the forearm in. Then they're moving elbow and then in doing it again and they're doing it over and over again until one day they've flipped over and they're on their back or they've crawled a step, these bread, crumb ideas. This challenge that you guys replicate to such great effect are at the very core of how humans develop biologically, this is how it works. So does it make sense that we should apply this to everything we're talking about here, go back to baby steps up slowly, every complex skill that we have. We didn't pick up the first time. It was built through baby steps whether it's a jump shot or even marathon training, right? If I would have got the first run from Chris and said, oh, five miles, I could do that. That's easy. I'm not. How the hell of I gotta get the thirteen one miles. It's impossible so you can't dismiss the easy stuff. Those small steps get you on the right path to growth. AJ. What do you find the most difficult about managing a business that's easy paperwork and invoicing. What small business owner wants to spend their time on paperwork, endless emails and dealing with payment collection. That's why there's Honey. Honey book is a purpose built business management platform for creative small businesses. 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And right now, blankets has a special offer just for our audience, go to Blake dot com. Slash eo. See to start your own free trial or get three months off of your yearly plan. When you join today. That's blankets. Beat l. i. n. k. i. s. t.. S. t. dot com slash eo. See to start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan. I think we would be a mess if we didn't discuss moving on from your past, because after you've realized that you were abusing your husband. In this case, it's very easy to fall into the victim mentality of, oh, this is just because I suffered from abuse, and now this is just too I am, and now I'm stuck in this rut of this defines me. Everyone listening doesn't want to be defined by their pass. I know personally, I don't wanna be defined by my pass Johnny. Absolutely. We have some checkered past to begin with some of which we've shared on the show. How do we move beyond or pass when we realized that we've heard people and maybe even abused people in our lives. We have to choose I, the decision, it's not a process. It's a decision you say, I want to be a different person. So that's the beginning in there's lots that could be said about that choice point. But for today, I think what's really nice about how our conversation. Shen has progressed is you know, how did I as someone who was being really got awful to my husband over prolonged periods of time, how did I redeem myself for him and for our relationship, but most importantly for me. Okay. So if you've missed behaved and you know you're looking in the mirror in this moment. No, that I have been in your shoes in the way that this happens is you decide it's not okay with you. And then one day at a time, one interaction at a time you fulfill your own expectation of who you want to be. So if I wanted to be a non angry person, if I set myself a big goal at first, I wanted to be the wife that my my husband bragged about, like when you guys go to the bar and you're talking about your girlfriend or your wives, and you know, there's all sorts of stuff that gets said, you know, same for women right when we get together to get our pedicure or, or are we go, you know, play baseball or whatever it is where. Where we're talking about are the men and women in our lives. I wanted to be the wife that breaked about, so I set that as a frame. And then I started to do something very practical that was like an anger and emotional resilience diary, keep track of what when anger, what happened or I would get angry right? And in so doing create for myself, an awareness of the conditions in which I was not getting emotionally abusive. So I would start to notice when the circumstances were supporting me, whether it be, I had my coaching session that day that week, I attended a retreat that month, whatever it was day by day. I fulfilled the promise to myself to stop being that previous person in my past, and I rebuilt my trust with myself in that way. I love that. I feel that it's easy to. Take small steps and and note them and track them. I know it's something that we talk about journaling is part of the process to allowing yourself to take account of. Did I make the change today even if it was slight. Did I consciously choose something? And we see this all the time. We were just a Chicago with our alumni, and it's always fun to hang out our alumni after the program and catch up some of them we hadn't seen in years because we remember so crystal clear that Tuesday when we started class and who they were on that Tuesday and their social anxiety, the fear that they were feeling around, what am I going to do? How gonna go out? I've never gone out and socialize before. It makes me uncomfortable to where they are now where it started on the boot camp, a conscious decision. I'm gonna go out. I'm gonna get a couple high fives. I'm gonna consciously. Make sure that I'm approaching. I'm gonna consciously, make sure that I'm setting myself up for. Bess to this past week in Chicago, we're looking around and they're run around talk and everyone and it's completely unconscious to them. Now it starts with conscious action, builds the habit. That leads to unconscious action. You don't even think about it anymore. And when we can denote these little steps, consciously we can start to pick up some small wins that become big wins in it's funny, we asked them at the weekend, so I don't remember you acting this on bootcamp. How does it feel now that you're so social? Like I don't even realize it because it was once again, started small and work that's way up and now at sow habit, and it's part of just who they are as a person. I wanna make a Seinfeld reference that uncall- or is that okay? So I'd filled still cool. He had an episode. Maybe our listeners can pinpoint which episode it was, but he was called, don't break the chain if you guys remember, and it was it speaks exactly to this like game finding our lives that if I could create a whole week at first, it was just like, give me please a week of proving to myself that I can be someone trustworthy around motions in anger. Can you play for a month? Can you play for a year? At this point, I'm playing for years years upon years of good expression of emotion and anger, and I'm so grateful for everything that supported me to bring me today and the relationship with my husband, but try to play the game, don't break the chain. Just like Jerry Seinfeld said he led Jerry Seinfeld beer coach for a day. How many times can you Mark a check Mark on the calendar that says, I achieved that IT that chief that I love. Let's dig into some listener. Yes, yes. Here we got some great ones. The first one here Joel wants to know how do you deal with breathlessness in situations that have caused you to be anxious? For example, in challenging social situations where you're eager to give off a good impression, how do you deal with that? Breathless anxiety. I think we've already answered it through this podcast, which is, you know, it's a taking steps early to slowly work yourself there. How are you going to get through something like this? If you've never been in this situation and you have to give yourself room to be terrible at it, and that that is okay because it's the first time that you've played yourself that has out how to get yourself out of trouble. She never been there before and breaking the chain helps with those things of showing opportunities were in that situation. You've worked through it and journaling. Well, it wasn't as bad as last time I'm slowly getting better and being able to celebrate what we call small victories and help in those. And I completely agree with the baby step concept we talked about earlier as well. These moments of breathlessness are us throwing ourselves to the wolves, right? We're jumping in the deep end and a lot of times we have done the work prior to set ourselves up for that success. So making it a habit to approach people, not the most intimidating, beautiful woman across the bar or gorgeous guy, but making it a habit to be more social. And one of the first things that we talk about is will be social with the people who are paid to enter tain you the staff, the barista. Those are small wins that over time can work through this exiling. This situation that he's talking about in large part is because he's lack. Being a bit of experience socializing and it happens to all of us. I, I wanna add to that. I was speaking of journaling. I realized the other day there was something that we had to do, and I was frustrated about it and I had analyze, why am I being frustrated in this situation? This should be fun, right? Something new and I realize this one that you as somebody who has to work with, you probably know this really well, but I have no problem walk into the end down as long as I'm willingly and wanting -ly doing it. I hate being forced into the unknown floors, unknown. My first response is the freak out. My first response is to get mad. My first response is whatever I need to do just dealing with the unknown however, that once I wash over, wait a minute here, here's an opportunity to do something new. Okay. What have I done in the past? That may be a reference point for what I'm about to do, and. Seeing how I'm stuck here in the unknown and I'm going to work through this. It's probably not going to go so well, and I'm gonna be awkward and clunky about it. However, I'm going to be better for, so that's okay. But it takes me minute to get there. Sometimes I can easily walk into any unknown situation, wanting lame, willingly just thrown in there that the the freakout happens and I and of course looking at this, I could see this person having to do a presentation for work and not being ready for it, and all of a sudden pulling the freakout. Yeah, Joel and everybody who can relate to this. I mean, I definitely raising my hat I can relate to. This is definitely still get restlessness in one of the things I'd love to offer sort of a counterpoint to everything great has gone before is that, hey, let's employ our bodies in this breath after all is a function of the physical body of the mind. So one of the things that I could offer is. If you don't mind singing or whistling or humming, try that it's a neuroscience thing. Why? Because it causes you to take longer smoother breaths. Can you hear even in my vocal tone, I'm creating that if I were to be breathless right now, I would try to make my voice and my breathing my phrases a little longer. It causes that fighter flight breath to dissipate when you do that, you don't even have to sing outlet. Like if you're, you know, going before the board board of advisors with the presentation burst out in, you know, homo or anything like that, but you could think about singing. Even thinking about seeing has been prevent to slow your breath, slow your heartbeat, let your nervous system drop out of fighter flight. A couldn't agree more. I've gone through public speaking training and one of the first things they had us do because everyone is nervous when they have to get up on stage. It is. Universal is silly. Singing to get our nervous system to calm down to get our breathing right? Because what happens when we get breathless, we deprive the body of what it needs and its oxygen and that fight response comes in and then it becomes even harder to control. So I, I love that tidbit of vice based in science, which we always love as well. Right? And let me tie it in if I may just back to a call back to what we were speaking of earlier, breathlessness actually is sometimes a precursor to emotional outburst. So you know whether you're breathless because the of emotionality or not noticing that taking these longer phrases of breath, reading through your feet, utilizing your meditation habit, whatever version of your deeper longer breathing it is can actually bring you back from angry outbursts. When you know when you're on the brink of that. The last thing I want to say on this is it is okay. Okay. I think a lot of times we assume that we should never feel this way, right? And the goal is to avoid it, but this is to be human. I still get nervous. I still get breathless when I'm presenting, even though I've taken courses done it for years. It is normal. So I just wanna add giving yourself a little forgiveness. I know a lot of perfectionists are listening and we strive for greatness, but it's okay to feel breathless at times as well. It should not be the end goal. Amen. Stephen is asking, I have this friend I'm really connected with and we share very good friendship. However, in her search for support, she can throw a lot of emotional bids and requests for attention more than I can handle. Sometimes how can I deal with this excessive emotional bids? I managed to keep my attention heard a reasonable level, but she keeps asking for more and I don't want to lose the connection with her. Great question around boundaries. Yes. I think this one is a perfect place to remind us that Steven, in your case, you are having an emotional bit of your own within this scenario of your friend bidding for your attention. You're having a reaction that is, hey, I've needs year to a little less. Emotional bidding would be nice as we said earlier, takes stock for yourself. What's going on for yourself? What's where am I? Now I'd like for her to be doing less emotional bidding. Where would you like to, you know, where would you like to go there? I just answered it a now. The only unanswered question is, how are you gonna get what you need. So in this particular case, I am a fan of radical honesty and really having a moment that says, could I talk to you about this concept called emotional bidding? If you have an already talk to her about it, I noticed that you're, you know, you're doing quite a bit of that in. I do it to what is it that we can do to make sure you feel like I'm hearing your bid so that may be it is as frequent or maybe you don't even need to ask for it as frequently that kind of radical honesty. Once again, I think of that as Geraldo IQ leadership conversation and would be one way I'd like to see you try it. I was recently reading an ask Polly article on York magazine. Amy had sent to me and it was around this exact concept right friends mistreating us and we don't wanna lose our friends. And a lot of times when the mistreatment happens, whether it's the need constant need for attention that takes the spotlight away from you or this constant need for your time. And I love the advice from ask Polly, which was be honest about what you need. Because a lot of times our friends don't know what we need. We're living in our own head and we have expectations that we place on people. But they are completely unaware of those expectations. And having an honest conversation with someone is as we said earlier around boundaries is impactful. A gains clarity for both parties in I guarantee you that Stevens friend would enjoy that conversation because they value Stephen as a friend and people to Johnny's point people who care about you. They care about your boundaries too. I know it's difficult in the moment to feel that way and you don't wanna hurt their feelings, but they will feel better knowing how they can support you and how they could be a better front you if they care about you. The flip side is if she negatively reacts to this will I think we can put her in the not friend category. Right? So you gain clarity, one of things that I didn't really wanna go there because I wanted to keep the question on the positive though. I wanted to ask Stephen, ask himself. Hard question here as well. He talks about the have a great connection and a really good friends. I'd like for him to figure out the right down. What is the value that he is getting out of this relationship? My first thought when I saw this was something was off and I, I don't wanna get into that, but I want Stephen task himself that question because as you said, that's gonna fig. That's gonna see right there. We'll where that relationship truly is. Right. And it's not one sided. I'll give you a visual. Think of a mom and her toddler. Okay. Maybe the mamas washing dishes. Maybe the mom is at the computer running her business in the toddler keeps pulling on the the mom's skirt or you know, shirt and keeps pulling like every two minutes it the bid. Okay. This toddler is bidding continuously. Now maybe it's perfectly legitimate. They have a wet diaper or whatever it is in something needs to be done about it, or maybe it's time for the toddler to start understanding. Mommy needs to have some quiet. She's on the phone. So come over here and have a book, and here's a, you know, a sippy Cup or whatever it is. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about growing up our relationship with each other. I'm not saying your friend is a toddler, but you know, it's a visual for us to really realize when we're bidding. We, we have a little bit of that like kid yearning as well absolute. I love. The visual that you just put on that and I, I had never thought of it in that manner. 'cause when we talk about when the guys get stuck in question train and it's the constant, how you doing, do you like that line of work? Do you like living there? How it is pulling on this person? That's a great tugging. Larry wants to know what are some tips we can use to pick up whether someone received our emotional bits. It's easy for me to know I'm sending it, but what are the different ways they show it has been received? So Johnny are wearing a big smile hair. Well, there's a lot I in this question. Oh, I don't even know where to get. So let me just pick something here. I'm guessing that his emotional bids are not being met whilst would you ask this question so that comes to what is the situation of this relationship? It's one of the questions because if they're leaning in will, then we know that they're getting. They're hearing it after the turning away while there's two things going on the either they're preoccupied or they just don't care or or disinterested or does interested. So we have to figure those things out. So those are some non verbal signals right. If they're receiving your emotional bid, non verbally, typically they'll be making eye contact. They'll be leaning in this is you trying to connect. So obviously they're physically going to appear connected you through I contact facing. You may be closeness as well. Then there's the verbal side of it. Right? And what is the emotional bit? We've talked this, it seeking attention approval and acceptance. So ask yourself, are you getting any of those three? Are you getting their attention? Have they appreciated you in that moment that you've offered it up and have they accepted it if it's a negative one right to go along with that are used somebody who is tentative and answering other people's emotional bids because the shore fire way to get the cold shoulder, having people turn away is because you have it contributed. Yeah, that was a bingo bango. Wow. That's such a great comment. I think you know, when you're asking that question, a good place to look is how. How are you receiving emotional bids, and what are you doing to show that person that you have received it road at might be a clue for through the non verbals we talked about or through verbally appreciating them accepting them and giving them your attention. Dan is asking, how do I differentiate between neediness and wanting to share a true connection? And do you recommend to always reply to another person's emotional bids? Especially if someone is being constantly needy boundaries are coming up big in this episode Dr and it's good. I feel like we all use lesson boundaries. I know it's something that I've struggled with as well at select gotten a lot of trouble for because I think I draw hard boundaries that I tend to stick to that kind of rub people the wrong way. Sometimes I certainly know in a work environment we've run into that, yes, you do draw hard hundred. I'm just glad to be that after ten years, you're starting to come to some of these realizations. I've I've, that's been very to gain Johnny's agreement to get into the unknown. Share that with the team now you're aware of it as well. So that's good. That one was a that was a new regulation and the hard boundaries so that when I've always done in your drawing these hard boundaries, Johnny, what are you doing. First of all, it's allowing myself to feel safe in and set up and comfortable. And I think that's a big one right in Dansk questioned. The underlying context is his needs aren't being met, and he feels that he's constantly whether it's through receiving these emotional bids and and helping to always be attentive, appreciative accepting of them that his own personal needs are not being met in these relationships or the start of these relationships. I think one of the things that you could try floating on down is when you ask the question, the coach in me is saying, love the question. What do you mean by a true connection? That is an interesting phrase. I would hazard to guess that probably everybody would have a different answer as everybody's resume is different. So if you would be willing to answer that question a bit, what do I mean when I say true connection. It looks like this. It looks like this much togetherness this much individual individuality this much. You know, whatever it is that's going to really help you understand how to get it until you have that. You're not gonna know. It's like if you don't know where the goal posts are, you can't. You can't shoot on it. Right. I like that. I also just want to add that true connection. I feel is one of those terms that is perfection based. And I've been in relationships where I felt extremely connected and I felt disconnected, and I feel like when we only seek true connection, we don't give us as humans who are not robots yet. Right? We're working on it. Singularity, do not give people the space to be human. If we're only seeking quote unquote, amusing air quotes here, true connection, right? So I would look at your own needs, right when our own needs are certainly not being met or they're being abused, even that is obviously dealbreaker. Then outside of that, look at some of our own behaviors, because oftentimes when we see things and others that bother us, these are behaviors that were exhibiting ourselves. So are you being needed to the people around you in not responding to their emotional bids? And I do love. That reflection around your idea of true connection because what you have is an ideal might be unrealistic. I mean, I have a girlfriend who heard finish in of a true connections to be able to walk around naked with the person all the time. It doesn't matter that's heard finish because the warts and all and it doesn't. You not sucking your belly in not, you know, whatever, whatever. So I think you're right there is a sort of like shiny new feeling to this term true connection. So maybe we could soften that. Maybe we could say, hey, it means that I get to be upset sometimes within reason, hey, maybe it means that I, I don't want to be there for your current emotional bid. This is one of the two out of ten times. I'm not going to be there for the motion been. That could be a true connection. Michael Sorenson his interview with us said exactly that if you know that you can't be present state that Hayes work is kicking my ass right now. I can't give you the time. Space that you need right now, but I want to as a friend and when I get through this, I will be there to be more supportive. Wow. What a relief ride, just saying that I'm feeling a little relieved, so we're putting expectations on the other person and we're placing heavy expectations on ourselves. That being honest can help mitigate. Hey, Johnny. Are you airing your me on these right now? Yep, of course. I am. I always thought me on these was really cool underwear brand with fun, crazy prints, but it wasn't to actually try them on that. I realize, holy crap. They are seriously the most comfortable thing I've ever worn. You really liked the multiple fund prince. They put out each month and the matching socks and brought leads to go with them. Right? Yeah. Who doesn't like wearing matching socks, you can even get matching pair with Amy. I love matching with Amy. Me undies is always using micro modal fabric, which is three times softer than regular Khan. And once he put these bad boys on their so comfortable, you won't wanna take them up and also on his just launched a brand new membership. You can level up your top-drawer with new me on dis each month. That's right. Members gain access to exclusive friends that no one else can get, and they get special member pricing on every product me on these banks and you can switch skylights or even skip a month of you want to get your fifteen percent of your first pair free shipping and one hundred percent. Satisfaction guaranteed go to me on these dot com slash charm. That's me undies dot com. Slash charm, Johnny. You can even match under with me. It's not gonna happen. All right. Yeah. Hey, Johnny. Are you wearing your me on these right now? Yes, of course. I am. I always thought, man, he's a really cool underwear brand with fun, crazy prints, but it wasn't until I actually tried them on that. I realize, holy crap. They are seriously the most comfortable thing I've ever worn. 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It can easily blend into your home design and even pairs with any. Amazon, Alexa device who doesn't love that. Go today to SimpliSafe dot com slash eo. See, that's s. I m. p. l. i. safe dot com slash eo. See. Oh, the neat asks, how can I Dennis by emotional bids from texts? Well, first of all. Why is there this? I, I'm just going to assume the positive that maybe it was a long distance in the relationship or they're not able to meet in person because my first thought when I saw that as why are you trying to have a conversation a meaningful conversation overtaxed? If it's at that point, I would say if you can pick up the phone. Because and surly emojis are not going to help. What do you mean? You don't do the Wiki tongue outlook and real life. Johnny. It was. Listen, I I can. You know to something, I heard the other day of how maybe was ten fifteen years ago. Everyone saw emojis as childish behavior on communication through phones. And now it is quintessential. They had any sort of news nuance because everything now is dealt with through tax just pointing that some dealing. But you know, I wonder if Dr Goldman realized that emotional bidding through text and emojis was going to be a thing. We need a new study Dr. Got men get on this. Yeah. Again, I wanna take a step back in and just unpack the definition of emotional bid because I think this is a lack of clarity on what the definition is. It is when one person is expressing to another party that they want their attention appreciation acceptance, yes. Now overtaxed, there are definite ways to have emotional. Bid. I just had this awful day at work. That's an emotional bid. They want you to pick up the phone, meet in person, text back. They want a response versus an emoji. I think we could all agree that's not an emotional bid. It's being a little silly and playful where Johnny I are trying to draw the line here is say, guys, let's try to foster every connection in the digital age. I was laughing. I just had this picture of some guy, Texas some girl at like, you know, one thirty in the morning sup. She has not responded via Boashan bids govern with not like. Oh, man. Refrain from comment. Benita also ask what role does body language play and exhibiting emotional bids? And we kind of impact this a little bit earlier, but exactly that turning towards right in in the definition the doctor talks about turning towards someone means you're physically turning towards them. You are being one hundred percent present? Yes and listen. I start watching this documentary on HBO called swiped, and I do feel bad for younger generations young because the way the dating is working going completely digital in the overwhelm there are with options now and they had a scientist on Hugh is talking about how human nature was not built to have as many options as we currently have. We were not evolved in a way that we would have as many options, right? Human sexuality was were in a tribe and. We may be have you know, twenty thirty partner opportunities, and then we got civilized and we had more opportunities, but you still demeaned in person. Now we're in a situation where you don't have to meet in person at all in literally there's unlimited opportunity in your phone. It's a, it's possible to compute that with for what this brain is trained to do. Right. And I think a lot of times simply meeting in person is the answer here guys trying to force it through tax in a mode. Jeez, and digital is not the way to go about fostering true connection. Fostering real connection. Of course. Patrick asks, how do you respond to emotional bid when you don't really care about the topic? For example, when a friend went on a weekend city trip, and she was excited about the architecture in the food culture, but you don't care about those two things. I have an answer for this one. Asian culture. Some of you might know if you're familiar with Japanese culture that there is a habit. The Japanese speakers have that basically is a soda got a like it's yes. Oh, really like this. And that's the equivalent. It's like, you can actually answer the bid without agreeing with the content. Right? So you knowledge ING. There is the existence of a bid. Don't have to actually agree with what's being said. I couldn't agree more. I feel like there's again a little bit of a misunderstanding around what the emotional bid is. This person sharing this architecture and food culture is not sharing it because they want you to say, you love it too, about. It's a little simpler than we make it out to be. And I think what Patrick is trying to get at is this concept of a we statement that we discuss in boot camp where when someone's giving us an emotional bid, one of the most crystal clear ways to give that person a response, the emotional bid is to make a we statement to take what they're saying and now make it about us instead of just about them. And with this example, simple, we've statement is along the lines of great. Next time we go travelling. You can help me see all the culture that that city has to offer bone. You actually paid attention which is one of the most important steps in responding to emotional bid and gave them appreciation for the fact that they love this stuff. Not that you love this stuff. Not that you have to agree with it, but you shared some appreciation for the fact that they love this stuff. That's all they're looking for, hey, you meant. Boot camp. I heard a vicious. Rumor is the issue. 'cause I really wanna know that you are going to be opening up boot camps to women as well. Now solely on the books books for real. It's not just a vicious, rumor. No cats out of the bag on this podcast there longer rumor because this thing you just talked about about way statements I think is if I reflect back to my personal growth and how to navigate tough conversations and emotional conversations try to step into my emotional leadership. I know a lot of my sisters and friends and you know, all of us, humans really, we could use so much more of that. I tried to make a we statement. And I'm so happy to hear because I've heard so much good about your Kemp's today that I mean, Hallelujah, I wanna know when they are. Thank you and we're religious leaded. Yeah, we have one coming up in October, and we have one coming up in February. And if it goes like gangbusters fingers crossed, we will be offering more opportunities for women to work with us because I know my inbox and Janis inbox is full of women saying, guys, can we take this program even talking about? Can we take boot camp? And we started twelve years ago. We started classically with dating that was our focus is guys, how do we get better with this? Obviously, we have some guys asking questions around how to deal with the opposite sex, but we've learned that navigating relationships in the workplace. As we talked about earlier in our family, these are such valuable skills that aren't taught in school. Yes. I never encountered emotional bids in school, and if I had an opportunity to go to college doctor gotten as. Teaching, I probably would've skip that class thinking that's not for me, but learning about emotional bids has been so impactful in every relationship in my life. And let's be honest. We all want confidence. We all want to feel more self assured about ourselves and lean into our careers and social skills are how we lead into our career, getting jobs through your network. When we talk about how people advance in the career will your boss has to like you. That's a good first step so hot, a, we work and navigate through a world that has digital component, but social skills are still highly valued. So I have to say, I so respect how you guys are handling this because, hey, you stayed in your lane and supported people like yourselves, right. And you didn't pretend to be like, I, I know how to do this to support other genders. And now what I understand you're doing is really building a curriculum that is from the inside out supporting women's Lieber leadership in social skills doing it separately also is, I think, really important. We need to be able to practice and not to safe spaces, but brave space. And that that really goes, I think, too, that would be the phrase when I tell my women friends about your new women's boot camps, it'll be that you know, it's a safe place to gain all this mastery and excellence, but it's also a brave space in the way that you challenge people to create red criminal time confidence in everything they want in their lives. So a lot of respect hashtag respect were excited. We have a number of women that worked in the company that have coached our guys over the years and exactly that guys have been coming to us for over a decade to get honesty and to get that clarity and to be able to ask female coaches with they think about it, not just with Johnny, I think about it, and I think it's gonna be fun for Johnny, and I'd offer up an opportunity for the women to ask us what we think and feel about it. And then also to have our female coaches work closely with the women to build up their own confidence and to build up these social skills that everyone can benefit from. And then you're going to be able to send. Jobs. I see that in your future of beautiful, bright ASC future. Can't wait for two to get married that, and I am. Yes, I get the snuggly ale. See, we're working on it. Love. Nice Sean up and Milwaukee is hooking us up with some merge. So stay tuned for that. We're going to have some urge available on the website for all of our fans who can't make it out here to allay. The guys have been love and the snapback they get the graduation ceremony on bootcamp. All right. Shamila wants to know my girlfriend of two years broke up with me about a month back and in that month we didn't give each other enough time to separate and I can tell that she harbored negative emotions towards me. I decided to go forward with no contact, and it is now day two of that, and I believe that is the right thing to do to allow her to heal from the hurt. I caused her and to allow myself to heal from the hurt. She caused me. My question is, how do. Judge win to reinstate contact will she have to be the one to initiate contact and how do I get her back in general outside of improving myself? It's funny we were going through the questions a little bit earlier before we have on the Mike here, and I feel like we've all been there. Yes, guys and girls, and it is very difficult to have someone you care deeply about someone you feel strongly towards say, this isn't working for me. This is not what I signed up for this. No longer interest me. And of course, if things did not separate in that moment and you were whether it was forced to live together or work together and the opportunity he'll was never given. There are going to be a lot of raw negative emotions that you have to work through both of you. The first thing I want to say is it doesn't to me feel like he's fully worked through his own emotions. No, it seems to me, he's trying to rush the process of her working through her emotions, which is understandable without actually giving himself space to work through his own emotions around. A second thing that jumps out at me is the very last question. How do I get her back in general outside of improving myself? So let's just take a step back, this person you care about deeply in your life as said, I don't feel the same way for you right now. That's not going to change unless you change, it's impossible. She's telling you that she doesn't like this version of you down if you're listening to the show. Obviously, you know, we're gonna go through lots of versions of ourselves. Yeah, lots and working on our selves should always be the goal, whether or not it's a break up that is the Genesis of it. So I do not in any way want to discount improving yourself because this is a fantastic opportunity for that self reflection that we talked about earlier for moving beyond our past for growing as a human. And I can tell you in the solicited and unsolicited feedback. I've gotten from my ex girlfriend's always been very beneficial to my own personal growth. I would say take heed of the reasons that she gave you and the reasons for this break-up if she was comfortable enough, to be honest with you. Share what it was that drove her this point. Listen to them. This is coming from someone who cares about you cared about you deeply probably still cares about you and knows you an intimate level, right? Girlfriend, boyfriend. We share a lot of time together. They had to pick up all of the quirks in everything about us. They see more of us than most people even our close friends, she of us. So her response is telling you that in order for this to even have a remote possibility of getting a getting back together, you have to change the to Neville so we can't discount that. So that last question, how do I get her back in general without improving myself? I'm sorry, the answer is you have to improve yourself now. It doesn't mean you have to spend years and years and years, but it means that you have to improve yourself for you. Certainly got a, it's a month, nothing. Nothing. Johny James go from zero to running half marathon in a month knew nothing muffing. It happens in a month, especially in a situation where it's clear that they didn't even give each other space in that month. Right. We're talking to days worth space here. One of the things I would love to add is that as you can probably tell, I'm a big proponent of reconnecting with our emotions in our lives and where smart people right. And we use our brain. So often in our work we can tend to over think things in this particular case where I get hit right in my heart on this is I feel like there is a process at the end of a relationship that gets minimize in that is mourning and grieving the loss of what could have been the possibility that now the door is shut that perhaps there is a possibility that that could rekindle, but for right now, is it all right? Everybody that we make friends with the sadness, make friends with the grief, just like losing any other relationship because of you know of death or something else. I think that that's that's an important thing to give space. For also wanna point out that she wants space. I mean that that's clear in this question. So how do I judge win to reinstate contact? Will she have to be the one to initiate? Unfortunately, yes. To be broken up with to have someone break up with you is a very implicit ask for space and you rushing back and you trying to initiate and you trying to say, hey, look change. See I'm new AJ over here. J. two point. Oh, I'm ready. I did everything you said is not going to restore the relationship. Now, is there a possibility that she will reinitiate contact when she's played the field? She's worked on herself. She's realised through our own self reflection mourning grief that she rushed to judgment in and maybe she acted mistakenly. Yes, there is that possibility, but no amount of you pushing the gas on reinstating contact while not dealing with the self improvement that needs to come out of this process is going to win her back. And the other thing is going to have to get the idea of getting back together, offer your mind for. Also that you, you can reconnect with yourself and the only way to do that and healthy manner is is starting proving yourself. Get obsessed with it at. That's where change is going to come. That's where you can focus on something else and allow nature to run its course. The last question today, I think buttons up our emotional bid month quite easily and clearly are there keywords or phrases that we should pay attention to that indicate emotional bits, Jeff. I'm very sorry to tell you it is not in the words, it is in the intent yet when we start paying attention to people's intentions, we start recognizing emotional bids trying to pretend we're Google and just scanning for keywords is not a way to create. Can. I was gonna say the emotional bid is the key word is the phrase that you want to. It's in the word. When a love about the question though, is the sincerity what I get from all the questions and from all the listening that I'm doing around your guys work is that everybody cares so much about, you know, good relationships, gray boundaries, communication, but also just becoming the best possible version of yourself. So in my book that makes you a hero already today, listening to this is an indication whether you're Jeff for someone else, you know, Bravo to as coaches, that's who we love working with, right l. of these questions, come from people who want to work on themselves, want to improve where they are and know that they can grow and we couldn't ask for anything better as coaches. And that's why we've been doing this as long as we have and we're on the same path this whole idea of emotional bids. When I first heard it, I was concerned, yeah. What are the keywords. What's your way to get to that next step? But listening to the intent being more present, whether it's through mindfulness practice, whether it's through putting yourself out there or going to an order term boot camp to really immerse yourself in this idea and unpack emotional bids. Well, those are all great opportunities for growth. We've been talking and teaching about motion bids for for years now for five years. So it's it's always funny to watch people do video work and the question of, okay, so what are the motion bids? And we go, what after the case of the, here's the definition, educates, what so they are. They can be tricky, but once you're trained for them, you see them everywhere and you get very good with them. And, and of course, as Michael said, we sit that they are superpower. Thank you so much Andrea for leaving your small island in British Columbia, all the way down here to the big city. To experience gluten and LaCroix and Janis mud. We had a lot of fun today that you so much for joining us. I was a pleasure. Thank you for having where can our listeners fine more information about the delta method. Tough conversations in breaking of you cycle we need to talk is the name of the book that I wrote that has more detail about the delta model. You can find that at Amazon bookstore near you and more information about me can be found at my personal website, Andrea Jay Lee dot com. That's where I'll be doing most of my emotional abuse, emotional leadership, emotional resilience, work here on the much firm Perkins. That's it for today. But before we go, we have some shout outs to give. First off. I want to thank all of you. Keep writing us with your questions to keep us thinking and remind us how porn it is to help each other grow. Yeah, because every time you ask us a question, there are three or four more that pop in our own heads, and that really challenges us to keep exploring new and better ways to share what we do with our boot camps. So please keep those questions rolling in. You could always drop us a line at questions of the artichoke dot com. And we've got another shout out for one of our bootcamp, alums, Asia in rebel. He'd qualified for the Boston marathon. Congrats. Adrian. Yes, you're training isn't as grueling as our half marathon training. Yeah. In fact, near the end of this year, we're going to have all tra- marathon runner and extremely motivational, bad ass. David Goggin honor show to talk about the importance of doing something you don't like every single day. Well, because challenging yourself is so helpful to your personal growth, which is exactly why you should join us. On our free ten day challenge so that you can push yourself outside your comfort zone, become more social and join a community of like minded AO listeners and coaches all striving to be better, go to the art of charm dot com slash challenge to join us today. Again, that's the art of charm dot com. Slash challenge will see you in the group before we hit the credits. We want to join the conversation with you on social media where on Twitter at the art of charm, same with Instagram, and you could find us personally on Instagram at AJ harbinger at AO, see, Johnny, we want to hear from you. The artists aren't podcast is produced by Chris ole and with the help of David Laura sheet and recorded a cast media studios and sunny Hollywood, California. This show is engineered by Danny Lubar Bradley. Denim. I'm Jay and I'm Johnny. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week to kick off a new month and a new theme. What is Johnny? Well, perhaps you're just gonna have to tune in next week and find out.
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