19 Episode results for "Jeet Singh"

Simran Jeet Singh: "Love Is The End Goal"

Journeys of Faith with Paula Faris

47:25 min | 1 year ago

Simran Jeet Singh: "Love Is The End Goal"

"Hi, everyone. It's Paula Farris. Welcome to another edition of journeys of faith. So my next guest would give up his life to protect another's. Even if that person offended him. That's because he's a member of the sick faith. I'm talking to Cimarron Jeet Singh. He wears a turban. He's never cut his hair or trimmed his beard, and he says what's frustrating about being so visible is that he's also completely invisible. That's because people don't know a whole lot about his faith. Even though the sick faith is the fifth largest religion in the world on this episode. He's going to tell us how his family was instrumental in getting the NC AA to change its rules about players wearing turbans during basketball games. He'll also tell us what the sick faith is all about. And why he would sacrifice his life for yours. Yours Cimarron thing. I'm this week's edition of journeys a faith. Cimarron Jeet saying thank you so much for joining journeys of faith as a pleasure to have you here in the studio or thank you for. So you are a professor of religion. Can you explain that a professor village I'm currently at NYU as a fellow? I've been teaching various religions Islam like his into his own. But his okay, you have your masters and theological study. So, you know, a lot about a lot of different religions, correct? Probably more than most people. But you practice as you say sick ISM S. I K H most of us. See that word. We think a Sikh. But are we mispronouncing it? There's there's two pronunciations the original independent be languages sick. Okay. We say sickie as the name of our tradition in English that would come out as his them. Seek is the colonial pronunciations when the British came to India. They started saying seek and so that's become popularized in English. And so I you know, I hear both both are fine. They're both acceptable both acceptable for sick. But I, you know, I'm not offended if someone says wonderful, so I really want to explore the sick religion, you authored a reporter's guide, and it really just helps reporters report accurately on the six tradition and the faith in general. So you author this. I want to ask you, what do six believe? Sure. I mean, the the basic tenants of of this tradition sent around the two core ideas. One is one this and the second is love and everything in the sex tradition builds on those two aspects, and so the basic idea is we believe that the entire world is interconnected that God is present equally in every aspect of this world. So we would say something in our tradition. It comes up in our scriptures as cod look collect Macau look Buddha heels uptight the creator is in the creation and the creation is in the creator divinity permeates absolutely all spaces. So that's that's a core aspect of our theological belief in that comes out as if you truly believe that God is equally and everyone we believe in ups, elite equality, everyone in everything are we talking animals to are just people. Exactly. So if you wanna break it down, and sort of the way, we think about things in science, you could say like at an atomic level or molecular level, everything that is produced in this world filled with God. And so the world is actually divine every aspect of it. This reporters guide that you had authored about sick ISM. I didn't realize that it's the fifth largest religion in the world. That's right. Yeah. And probably the main reason why most people don't know that sexism is the fifth largest is because most of the sick community still lives in the homeland of Ben job. But South Asia, north West Indian modern day bug is on the twenty five million approximately twenty five million six around the world, but more than twenty million living, Ben job still. So the diaspora exists in there are six all over the world. And there have been for centuries. Right. But the relative population is pretty small, and so many people especially in America have actually come across. Because they're you know, there are five hundred thousand of us here. That's not that much. Your Twitter account says everyone needs a sick friend. Yup. I don't know if we're going to need a sick friend. I just I just want people to like me. So I say they need to be my friend. But yeah, peaceful religion, very, peaceful religion about love and oneness is so much of what we teach our tradition again going back to this idea of oneness, if we believe that everyone is filled with divinity, and we are equally divine than we want to reduce suffering. We don't want people to to to feel hurt in this world. And so that aspect of achieving harmony injustice for everyone is such an important part of our tradition. You say everybody has the divinity within them. How do you uniquely tap into that? I think about that a lot now because I have two young girls at home. I but one year old and a three year old and congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. They're still alive. Congrats. Surviving. But it, but I think a lot about actually how do you raise kids in such a way that it is their intuitive impulse to see people in that way. And the reason that I'm asking the question in that way is I think my parents did that for us. I don't actually I I'm not able to see people without divinity. And then if we want to step back and say, well, where where where do so many of our problems come from in our society comes from this idea that like there are people who are better or worse, more holier less. Holy right and higher caste lower cash, your dispelling, a notion that's out there. That's what our society teaches us. Whether we say it on the basis of race, right? Like might Nassar's preferred over blackness in our society wealth is privileged over poverty. And so we're we're taught to live in such a way that we see people as better or worse in our society. And what I think we really need to do is step back. Say, you know, all of our teachings tell us that people are equal die. God is in everyone, and we should treat everyone that way. So how do we change the way that we teach our kids? That's something that these days hierarchy, according to your scriptures. And there shouldn't be a hierarchy. We're all like you said children of God and on the same plane field level Plainfield, right? Exactly. And even if you just go to the basic logic and the tradition if if each of us is equally divine, you know, our prophets are said this join is equally divine. How could we possibly say men are better than women like HR KIA's unacceptable in our tradition? Somebody who is born two different families better than someone from cast is not acceptable in our tradition. So it's all about equality in in in your religion. You said there's no patriarchy women and men are viewed the exact same. That's right. That's the ideology, of course in practice. It comes out, you know, as we see in our society. Mitt thority. Exactly. So so, unfortunately, the the realities are never the ideals, but we always have to remember what our ideals are. So we can try and live them. Were you always a sick? Did you grow up in sick home? I know you grew up in San Antonio, correct. That's right. Yeah. Okay. The Spurs will. My team. So you grew up in innocent home where your parents immigrants had they've been living in the is as for a while. They were born in South Asia. They were born at the time. It was India when they were born. Yeah. My parents emigrated in the seventies. My father came as an engineer and in both of my parents were sick. They came from sake that it's actually my father tells me stories about how he came first before they were married he came as a PHD student, and he came with eleven dollars in his pocket. And actually he spent unfortunately, he spent almost half of that uninominal it on his layover. So I came with about eight dollars and could actually when he arrived, and he went straight to San Antonio. He was doing his PHD in Philadelphia. So he had a brother in New Jersey stayed with his brother and sister in law, and then started going hopefully fed him because eight dollars. Yeah. Probably take the rest of his money. We started his PHD. And I think it was at that time. It was the first time in his life. Where people started asking him questions about why he looked the way that he did he had a turbine. He was wearing his turban yet a beard. You know, certainly stuck out like a sore thumb in west Philadelphia where he was he was studying and living, and and so for him that was sort of a a real inflection point about, you know, is this something that I want to continue doing. Whereas the something that I'm willing to let go new exist as he was he had to have an explanation for who. He was right. Exactly. Because you know, he was in the seventy no one knew who he was he was visibly different. And so people wanted to know and soon after he arrived, you know, we had the Iran the Iranian revolution. Where you know. There was quite a bit of tension with with the Iranian state here in the US. And and he started receiving actually that. That's. Sort of questioning of difference actually became animosity. Because people started associating his turban and beard with with the Shah with Kamini, and and those were the types of racial slurs. He started receiving, and so it turned very quickly from a question of who am I why do I do what I do too. Can I survive living in this way? And you know, I wasn't questioned. Why are you here? Right. The the false accusations. Why did you decide to stick it out? We'll say also you what he's told me. And that is in in those moments. The first time he's really reflecting on. You know, why he wears he'd worn it all his life? It didn't really mean all that much to him. Besides, you know, the rest of my family does it it wasn't. You know, I don't think he would describe it as a religious commitment. Even though it it was it was a religious article of faith. The the reflection for him was that his faith to him meant the values that it instilled in him. And so these ideas of one and love and Justice, and these things in in a very particular way shape, the person that he was and gave him a sense of the type of person he wanted to be. That's what made him choose to continue wearing the turban. And he tells me I I know it's going to be tough. But those values matter more to me than anything else and the challenge to see the divinity in his accusers, and the people that were probably trying to assassinate his character was I would imagine a challenge hill. Right. Right. Exactly. I I think so. But again when one is raised to see that, right? It's kind of like you really can see the good in all of people. I try it's hard. Sometimes I have people who have attacked me in my life, just based on how I look and my turban on my beard and yellow racial slurs. What kind of things do they say? Well, I'll say the ones that are probably suitable for air. But you know, the typically now it'll be terrorist. Isis in the you know at the peak of the war on terror. It was SAMA Okada when I was growing up it was Saddam sand. My dad was Lebanese. Well, he passed away. I'm half Lebanese Matisse to get that. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. So. Yeah. And you'll sort of understand very quickly that so much of this comes from what's happening in our foreign policy. Like, it's the nineties your one thing two thousands or something else. Now, I'm something else. But you grew up in San Antonio what you were you born eighty four. So you're born you're born in San Antonio was born and raised its anything. Anytime you're born and raised in San Antonio. I would imagine in San Antonio. There. Weren't a lot of people that looked and acted and believed what you believed in right? Exactly. I mean, we were the only turban sick family there ahead. Three brothers. I have three brothers. So we're four sickle is running around. You know, four boys. Oh, my mom. Trying to see the divinity and everyone your floor raising boys. Exactly. Yeah. We were we were the only six turbans in San Antonio at the time. And so for our parents, it became, you know, there were two real questions. Both I would say are related to survival. Right. Like, how do you literally survive in amidst of a world where there is where there's violence against people who look different. And and many times you are seen as the enemy, and then there's another form of survival, which is how do you preserve your heritage? Right. If you want your lineage to survive, your tradition to survive, and you live in a society where what you are doing. And what you believe is not normative. How do you? How do you raise kids in a way where they actually value that and cherish that and want to embrace it as opposed to reject it and try and fit in with everyone around them. And the other is real challenge that was hard for you were there moments where you just said I want to fit in. I don't wanna do this anymore. There were I think always in even now I wish. I think about fitting in right? I I don't feel like I fit in anywhere that I am. Right. If I'm on the upper east side of New York where I live now. I stick out if I'm home in Texas. I stick out if I go to India been job where my parents are from I stick out. So I don't really have a place where I truly fit in. There are places where I feel like I fit in and especially as a kid there were places where I was where I feel like I could completely forget that. I didn't fit in right? And that would be when we played sports. It's my brothers. And I were big and basketball soccer football, basically like all that stuff. And we'd when we were playing then we would forget not so much anymore. Like, I think I'm a little bit more conscious of it now. But as a kid like to the people around me also kids, it really didn't matter at that time that I look different as long as I could triple passenger. That's. Tell about the stats. Yeah. Exactly. So I mean in that sense. Growing up with three brothers like sportswear are sort of refuge. Like, it was a place where we had actual liberation from any sort of weight that we were carrying as. Minorities. I mean, we it wasn't totally free. So I don't I don't want to overly romanticize it, right? There were referees. Who wouldn't let us play. There were. Us referees. That would not let you play because you were Turpin. Yeah. It happened often. And. Usually, what would happen is my teammates, and our coaches, you know, this happened to my brothers to teammates and coaches would sort of get our backs and sort of talk them into it. But you know, I referee once a soccer game squeeze my turban. And like Pat down any check for weapons you could be hiding under there. Right. Like just things like that. Yeah. We had to get rule changes. My my younger brother was the first play NCWA basketball with a turban you had to get the NCW to update its policies. We had to get where did you rather play at trinity university in San Antonio? I had to petition the United States soccer federation to allow turbans, which is the governing body for soccer in the US as I was not even a teenager then. So it was my mom doing most of the work. But she would sit me down in her office every evening, and we would write those letters. And that's that that stems from racism or just ignorance. The fact that they wouldn't allow you to wear your turban or maybe it was both. I think it was both. I think I think what we when we talk about s- institutionalized discrimination. I think a lot of times what we're talking about is a set of rules that were written at a time or even though right by people who weren't thinking about the impact it would have on the plethora of people that they're trying to serve I don't think when fo was writing its rules. They were thinking about eliminating headwear. So that they could keep six Jews and Muslims out. I think they were doing it because they were thinking about safety, and and what's normative, right. Like the assumption is nobody would wear that. Nobody would wear headwear is they're thinking about a certain population. But then as I think one of the challenges, I found is as we've tried to update those rules overtime people sort of dig their heels in and say, it really is an issue of safety. Now. I think it's ridiculous. I've never heard anybody with my hair. When I'm playing, basketball or soccer. It's protected. Yeah. Exactly. Right. It's a cushion if we're about to hit heads and. Yeah. I've I've laying twenty years of soccer only had one concussion, and like, you know, that's pretty. Exactly, exactly. So I don't think it's it's intentionally racist. When the rules are written. But I think the inability to step back, and reassess and say, okay, maybe we're trying to serve a more diverse set of people than we initially thought. And so let's change. I think there's this. We have this weird obsession with the rules are written. And so let's stick with them because that's what's fair. Right. Right. And a lot of times our rules, our laws don't make sense in our society, and and they are discriminatory or their excluding. And we should be more comfortable revisiting them. I spoke with Ana Navarro is a dear friend of mine who actually had recommended that you come on the podcast to talk about the fate. She was explaining if she doesn't Vail. It's a choice or it should be a choice for most Muslim woman to fail is wearing a turban and the sick faith. Is it a choice or is it a mandate? It's it's a mandate. Six are expected to our turbans. But like you have in every other religious community, you have different levels of practice, and and different ways in which people observe their religious practices. And so. So yes, it is. It is expected that a sick will or turbine. But at the same time, not every sick. Whereas a turban if that makes sense. Yes females. We're term turbans optional and so they are less less likely to wear turbans than they have the full access to wearing a turban if they would like right six typically physically present one of the things that stands out is the turban, but there are five specific areas articles of faith, then uninsured hair. So that means your hair has never been cut. Right. Exactly. The kid my kid in my building this morning. Who is asking? He's six. He was asking me about my white. Why do you wear that thing? I've been getting this questions myself a six year old. Yeah. Exactly. So I I didn't I didn't say anything about religion. Right. I just said it, my hair's really long, and I keep it covered. And wanted to know how long my hair was he has to be good. See I told him. I said next time we go swimming. You can see it. So you know that. Our conversation. But the these are like very very common questions has not been cut since I was born. I'll never cut it. Same with my beard. You're never been my beard never dreamed her shaved it's perfect. If your beard has never been like a long. I roll it up, and then penitent and everybody has like different style. Same with the turbans colors shapes beards. Like, some people roll it up some people gel it down some fully out. Yeah. I wish mine was longer. I have like. Yeah. So you're here and your beard has never been cut. Exactly. What are some of the other? What are some of the other ways, you physically present yourself? I also believe you have a comb comb that I keep in my hair. So that's under my turban. I have a race slit called a Goethe you're wearing it on your right wrist. Right. Where it at all times most times when I'm the the expectation as you would wear it at all times. I take mine off when I'm working out. I'm running. Okay. Especially the that was a habit that started when I was playing contact sports. And then then it actually could be dangerous to other people. What is the what is the intent? Why what is the reasoning for wearing the cutter? So they're different explanations. That people would give you right like some people would say, it's it's on your wrist to remind you that you should always engage in ethical actions. Some people say the the circular form is a reminder of the eternally of God. There's no beginning or end a circle. Yeah. My primary relationship with my articles faith comes from. From it comes from my relationship with my grew. So basically, I see them as gifts from our prophets who have given us these articles and in the same way that no one could. Well, let me give the analogy of a wedding ring if you wear a wedding ring, it has more value to you personally because of the relationship it represents it's not anything you could actually like it's a symbol. It's a symbol of the commitment that you've made. And that's exactly exactly. So for me, these these are like symbols of my relationship with my reminders. Exactly. Yeah. And so for that reason I cherish them. So like that is why it's so hard for people to understand. I think when they say, oh, you wanna play basketball, and they say no turbans. Like, why don't you just take off your turban? Is it a big deal? And for me it like my relationship with my grew is more important than my relationship to Gregg Popovich, even of it. It. Exactly. So. Yeah. I I love these other things, but like my primary relationship in lifeways is with my faith and my grew. And so that's why I'm so unwilling to to change myself, and my and my because it really is a compromise that I am not willing to make. After the break Cimarron tells us what it's like to be sick in America today. Better. Help offers licensed professional counselors specialized in a wide array of issues like depression, anxiety and grief connect with your professional counselor in a safe private online environment. It's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com slash faith. Fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love. Get cashback for shopping. You were already going to do racket in is a free member base. Loyalty program that lets you earn cashback on shopping it over twenty five hundred stores like Macy's best buy Nike and more. Shop online internet percentage of every purchase. You make up to forty percent cashback every three months. Members are paid the pay pal or another method. Sign up today at Rockhampton dot com. That's A K U T E N dot com. So you have the the unsure in hair, you have the small comb the kata, which is the steel bracelet. And then there are two other items. There's a coupon. That's like a dagger. Okay. That's worn typically underneath the close. And what is the what is the significance of that? So so again, many six describe it as a reminder of a sixty to stand up for Justice at all times. Okay. So that one has been a tough one because in, you know, our current context of violence and weapons and national security one of the compromises we've made as a community as to say okay entire community as the the entire community as the sick community. Generally, we've sort of accepted. The fact that coupons will not be acceptable to carry on airplanes. So when I travel mine Emma suitcase and check it in. They would not grant you a religious exemption for that. No, not right now, unfortunately, and that's that's a tough one for us because it is. I mean, just as important as my. Is to me. That's how important Mike. You're pundits to me. And so it's it's always painful to do that. I mean, it's it's real compromising. I know many six who refuse to to travel by air because they're just unwilling to to take off their coupons. Right. And again like in any religion, people just have different relationships with these articles. And so I don't, you know, I don't think people who are unwilling to fly unreasonable. I I think that's that's their interpretation. And that's how they want honor. It exactly exactly. But regardless it's it's tough tobe live in a society where it's not accept right there in Canada just across the border six openly carry their ponds, you know, outside of their clothes people know what they are part of part of the real challenge. We have in the US is we don't actually know about one another's cultures religions, we never learn them. And and so that ignorance really feels a lot of problems for minority. I wanna I wanna dig into that. I want you to close the loop on the fifth item that you carry or that you wear and it's the shoulder soldier shorts. Shorts is. Yeah. I mean, there's no real English. Translation for it. I mean, I I use older shorts because it's sort of Marx the historical context in which those were produced, but essentially if you're trying to imagine it well sitting at home or walking around her wherever you are. It's it's like boxer briefs. And so for many who sort of make this interpretation. There's there are people who have described it as a reminder about sexual discipline or discipline in general others of described it, as, you know, coming from a context in which the warriors were the ones who were actually wearing shorts like these at the time underneath their clothes. So that it would they would still be able to engage physically, but. For me more than either of those two explanations. It's it's that relationship act to act to my faith and the commitment and the commitment you made to guru in the community. Exactly is the guru the founder of the sick religion. Or do you have specific guru profit that you look up to that's still alive your questions? So the word grew generally means teacher, it comes from sunscreen, which literally means enlightener one who takes you from darkness to light so grew even in our modern sense. Just means someone who's a teacher enlightener expert in some in the tradition as very particular meeting. And that's it's a term we use for our prophets. The I grew grew Nonoc was born in fourteen sixty nine that's this year is five hundred fifty years since his birth. He conceived at the religion, we conceived of the religion an inst- began institutionalizing it and building the community after him. There were a line of nine successors up until seventeen. Eight. So so for about two hundred fifty years, we had living gurus human gurus. And then after seventeen o eight we have a sort of a joint authority that it's been institutionalized for eternity. One is the grunge side, which is the scripture that was compiled by the good themselves. And so that's essentially our text. What does the scripture called again grew? Grunt side. Okay. So grunt grunt means -nology and saw his term of respect for. It's it's a term of reverence so grew Grun cyb and the the other aspect of of the current grew is the grew call on which is the community of committed six. Okay. So it's the scripture and in the community. So it's a very much a community that advocates for one another. But also holds would another accountable. Exactly. And part of the reason for the structure is. When grew Nonoc was young and looking around he he was he found himself frustrated by what he was seeing in society around him and all these sorts of inequities and inequalities some of which were being produced within religious structures themselves of priestly classes who are taking advantage of people or manipulating people or essentially insisting on serving as a middleman between the individual and God. And and what not taught us was, you know, every individual should have their own relationship with God. It's not about you know, somebody doing it for you. It's it's really a personal personal aspect. Right. Faith is personal. And so he said, let's let's eliminate the middleman, and let's not have any clergy. Let's not have any sort of top down structure where people tell you how to live your religions, we actually don't have in sort of comparable sense to Christianity, where do you worship? Then. Because the I go to church Jewish. Oh to synagogue, if you're Muslim you go to a mosque where do you worship we call? It a gurdwaras which literally means the gateway to the do in every dollar has the scripture at the center, and one of the interesting things you'll see is every individual who is there at the Laura has equal right to perform services there. It's like when I was growing up in Texas. There were no six around us. My parents taught us some of the basic musical and recitation traditions as kids. And so by the time, we were six and seven we were performing like we didn't have a good lawyer at the time, we were just sort of meeting in different. It's a brick and mortar building correct traditionally us exactly when we've had those since the time of on himself so for centuries now we've had gurdwaras, but one of the things you'll see is in America. They look different than they do in infant job right in in America. You you might have it and in an old church. We used to when I was growing up we stood in people's homes. And then we started renting community centers like neighborhood community centers on then some places, you know, you'll see old churches that have been sold and then repurpose Guevara's the when I go to now in New Jersey, it's in a business park. There's an old office like building and warehouse, and we've sort of remade it into a house, and you don't have clergy. So how does it diva service? How does that work with service? Most of our service consists of singing from the scriptures. So all of our scriptures are written to music, and there are two themes. It's not really. It's not really narrative in the way that you would find in the bible or even in the Garonne, it's mostly song. And it's the the primary themes are either how one can, cultivate, a relationship with divinity or what it feels like to be in relationship with divinity. So it's it's simultaneously. Inspirational aspirational, let's it's essentially like if you listen to or if you read sufi poetry, those same sorts of things, it's it's that type of literature all about sort of a relationship with some greater force than yourself and how to find that. And how to break I think one of the central themes is how do you break all sorts of dichotomies and divisions. We've sort of produced for for ourselves and how we look at the world. So how do I get beyond this sort of idea of good versus bad, or how do I stop seeing evil or how do I stop giving into my ego right things like that which which sort of separate this idea of? Us versus them. Like, I don't want. We get rid of that boundary. And so that's that's what our services like it's mostly singing. And you know, you'll have kids up there saying annual have is it traditionally on a Sunday Saturday, historically, it was every day or any day. We don't really have any belief that a certain day is more appropriate for worship than another in modern America just is the easiest to do a service on Sunday morning. So that's kind of become the norm. And how long does it last? I know I go to church visiting can be really long. Yes. Checking their watches. Exactly. It can last all day. It can last all day, you can list all day, the one one where I go. It doesn't. Well. I mean, I think the nice thing is you can you can dip in and out. Come and it's all musical. So you know, you sit and you listen for a bit you sing along and you step out as he will the one where we go. It's about two hours for the program and then followed by a sort of a communal meal, which we call longer in our tradition. That's a really important aspect of of the service. It's it's time for people to sort of connect with one another and also in and of itself longer is sort of politically and socially subversive. The idea was let's have everyone who has been taught that they're better or worse than each other sit together on the floor and enjoy a meal together, and you know, the meal whispery, it was always an, and it still is it's it remains a really compelling sort of reason for people to come. Visit the Laura. Whether you're sick or not, you're always welcome. And so I'd love to experience it some time. Oh, yeah. It's so it's delicious. But I mean, it's it's it's it's heartening to just like sit on the ground together with people, you don't know and to be in relationship with one another. There's something really powerful about that really is. And you mentioned a little bit ago about many misconceptions of the sex faith, a lot of people think that your across between Islam and Hindu. Which is not correct. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I think. I think there there are a number of key misconceptions. That's that to me is probably the most frustrating these. I think you know, if you if you see it from the perspective of a sick what's frustrating about about being so visible is that world so completely invisible. Like people just don't know anything about sex. And if you look at the studies, like seventy percent of Americans don't even know what you mean, if you say the word sick like as I h he said, they would have never heard of it. I I've heard of the sick religion. But I didn't I be honest. I didn't know whole lot about it. Right. Right. Exactly. And I mean, it's it's it's not I I don't blame people. I think are we live in a world right now where we just don't value learning about one another. I mean, we don't value when another why would we teach each other about traditions, right? And so that's just sort of how how we've decided to do things. And it's it becomes really harmful to people. And so that's that to me is why it's I find it so frustrating that. Sick his despite having, you know, its own founder prophet scripture community centers, all these things we've discussed so far is still somehow labeled as as a mix or branch or an offshoot of other traditions. Right. So so as a scholar of religion, I'm just like, I I don't understand how anybody could make such an argument. Right. Let alone statement the question about being Muslim. I think stems from that. Right. That sort of general figuring people mistake you from I. I I don't know. Like, people don't say it. I mean, I. It's more. It's easier for me to see when people are fearful of me. I is all the time right now. Get on the subway and the mom next to me pulls her kid closer to them. So they're not saying like that. That's the worst that if you ever said anything to anyone not to a mom protecting kid, right? Like that's apparent to. And I understand like the most important thing is the safety of your kid. So like I understand where that comes from. But part of where that comes from is is our general ignorance, right? If she really knew what might turban meant. She would have the exact opposite reaction. Right. Like that. I that. I actually am there for the. The ideas of oneness and love and Justice on that. I would give up my life to protect that kid as opposed to to hurt that kid in any way. Right. So. Tenants. You do that self sacrifice that you would give up your life to protect another. Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, this model to us from one of our crews who was approached by community that was being persecuted Hindus were being persecuted at the time in north India, and they were unable to find any recourse, and they eventually went to the ninth sicker grew thick bother an ask for his help. And he went and stood up to the emperor. And he was killed for it. And you know, he wasn't the community wasn't being persecuted. Like, they were fine. He was fine. He didn't have to say anything. But he said something and he was unwilling to back down to the point where he was killed. And and for us, you know, that's happened over and over again in our tradition, and for us really stands as the model for what it looks like to be an ally and an accomplished on an accomplice, right? Like, you don't just say you have someone's back. You actually go and have their back. That's that's our belief, and that's our tradition. Even for those that have offended you even for those who have offended us. I think the point is you always stand for Justice, and you always stand up for the oppressed. And so to go back to your question about being confused for Muslim like that example, really informs how I respond to that. To me in trying to be like retake bother. The question has always been how do I deal with being conflicted being confused as a Muslim in a way that doesn't then go around and hurt? My fellow Muslims. What's the what's the solution to that? It's never easy. It's always I mean for me, it always stems from a place of what's the most loving response. That produces the most love, right? So here's here's something that group AAC bother ninth graders said before he died. He said back on who. Go Dayton FM on gone on Knicks on the Damon again thought become he said that the truly wise person is one who neither fears. Anyone nor frightens anyone? And and to me, it's such a profound statement writes, it seems simple. But when you're in a moment where things are complicated, right? Like, let's say on the street or on an airplane and somebody assumes I'm on a Muslim and has a racial slur for me and doesn't want to sit next to me. Right. Which is just happened. Then how do I both respond to that? With my own dignity. Right. I'm not fearful of this person. I want to stand with my head up high. And I want to stand up for myself yet. You don't want to frighten that person, but I don't want to right and everyone else on the plane who's already scared of, you know, the bearded turban guy who got pulled over by security, right? And how do I so it's complicated. And and so I I'm always reflecting on that wisdom of grouping behaviors of like, essentially his point is like retain your own humanity and recognize the humanity of others, right? It comes back to principle. That's super simple. But in certain situations. It's not so. Oh, simple since I was a kid like I've just learned how to be safe when people are following me. Or like when someone says something you have to be careful when you're out in public. Let me say this way, I'm not fearful, but I am cautious. And I don't I don't think it's necessarily always conscious like when you live this way for your whole life like just being thoughtful about the people around you. And who when you might be in danger? You don't really think about it? You just sort of. No. And I think like when I talked to a lot of my female, friends, they say the same thing. Right. Like, I know what situations to stay away from. I know when people are looking at municipal way like to avoid them. I know when to make sure that I have someone with me. It's it's a it's a similar sort of feeling where you don't you can't really fully articulated. There's no way to measure it and there's no single answer. Like, it's always context specific. I like to ask my guests a couple of standard questions and the first being where do you think that you would be without? You are sick faith. I'd probably still be in Texas happy eating tacos. GM for the Spurs sharing for the Spurs. Yeah. Life would be good still. But I want one of the big changes. I think is I don't think I would have had the types of experiences with oppression that have sort of formed the person I've become today. Like so much of my life is driven by fighting for Justice through education. Right. That's why I became a professor. That's why I worked for a civil rights organization. That's why I do everything that I do, and it really has to do with my experience of injustice. Right. And so feeling that so deeply in raw so deeply and watching my community, you know, people that I knew and people that I didn't know about all people that I felt connected to just struggling if you had one word to describe your faith. What would it be? Loving. Good. An easy one. To come out with the faith is about loving and one nece. Yeah. I mean, it's it's for us it simultaneous lady the end goal is to be loving. What do six believe about the afterlife? It's it's a tough question. That's why I stay. Good journalists, can I can I start with a like a story that maybe doesn't totally make sense. Sure. Okay. Growing up in Texas. I was obsessed with this question and everywhere, I looked I could not get an answer. There are references to reincarnation throughout our scriptures. There's also references multiple references to have an hell, and there's no place I could find where there was actual clarity. And I knew most six believed in reincarnation in the way that put us in Hindus doing in in some sense, right abroad sense of reincarnation. But I couldn't find like a direct explanation of what that was or how it worked or like even scripture like something that definitively set it, and I just it drove me crazy. And I think the main reason it drove me crazy is that all of my friends had such clear ideas of afterlife, and it was such an important part of their theology to them. I could see very clearly like the answer to why they were doing what they were doing was this clear idea of heaven. And hell, right. It was it was so important to them. And I didn't know what. What? Yeah. So people would ask me. I would say I I don't know. And then I would feel like my religion was insufficient. Right. No, clear answers in the scriptures. There aren't I just couldn't come to terms with that until I. I was about eighteen or nineteen when I actually started studying the religion like I grew up as a sick. But like, I didn't really study I pet a basic understanding of it. I practiced a, but it was when I was about eighteen or nineteen. I talked to someone about this question. And he was like, you know, you're asking this. He was like why are you asking this question? I was like my all my friends. They know. Christians and Jews. No, like, why don't why don't I know? And this person responded to me and said like, well, what if I told you that? It's it's unclear on purpose. You know, kind of inches ambiguity. Yeah. Exactly. And I was like why why would that be? And he said, well, maybe it's it's intentionally I'm vigorous because it doesn't matter. And it shouldn't matter like, there's no way for us to know. We don't in anywhere in our scripture. We don't sort of theorize about things that aren't a part of this life that we don't know everything is sort of practical about how to live in this life. So like, why would you expect some sort of explanation as to what happens after like what difference? Does it make to you? Because you're intentionally living in the moment. And in the present. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. And what I learned throughout this conversation. Like, really shifted. My thinking was two things one. I was asking the questions because I was living in a society where that was the question people are asking, right? I it was those questions were shaping me rather than and forming my expectations of my religion as opposed to the religion itself. Giving me an opportunity. To provide itself as a coherent system. So I was I was becoming biased by my surroundings. That's the point. This thing was that I took away from this conversation. An and I knew this at the time. I just couldn't sort of put the pieces together the sick tradition teaches that salvation is achieved within this life. And the idea is a I'll give it to us as one of our groups wrote it the fifth profit grew our Jim he says dodge Nacho macho monthly income Lottie. He says I don't care about power. I don't care about Raj. Muc the nutshell, I don't care about salvation monthly income. Letting all I want is to be in love. And love for us is the end goal and love is something you achieve within this life. I am loving learning. So much about the faith, and I really am. And that's what this whole journey is about it's about sitting down and listening to people not trying to change their mind. But just listening and learning, and I'm so glad that that you have been willing to come on the podcast and really talk about your beautiful faith, and what it means to you. The the general sense of sick was literally translates to learner I think like in that spirit. You know, I'm I'm with you like learning is is our way to access anymore light. So thank you for the same Raji things. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate. And a big thanks to you for listening. Make sure you subscribe if you haven't done so already, and I hear that these ratings are really important. So if you could give us a rating at appreciate that as well. Big thanks to the team here at ABC radio. Couldn't do it without them Suzy Lou Lewis millman, Mike Dubovsky, Sean Griffin Riano Montalvo, Josh Cohen and Andrew couch. I'll talk to you all next week. Thanks for listening to journeys faith.

San Antonio US basketball America Texas South Asia professor India soccer New Jersey India Justice Nonoc Twitter Spurs founder Philadelphia Ben Cimarron Jeet Singh Cimarron Jeet
What Brown Men Do to Make Others Comfortable

Man Up

24:41 min | 1 year ago

What Brown Men Do to Make Others Comfortable

"This next message is brought to you by hotels dot com. You know, when you're endlessly, scrolling, social media, and suddenly, you see it. It's your friend. Dylan in Hawaii on another vacation. What do you do? You hate like his photo and immediately. Go to hotels dot com to book vacation so epic. So awesome. So sweet that your friends will hate like your trip hotels dot com, be there do that get rewarded. Yes, I in. Must have been in second grade, my family moved homes. So we're at a new school, no kids with turbans. Ed never gone to the school before nobody had ever seen anyone who looked like me. And so I asked my teacher to use the bathroom. So I remember walking to the bathroom. Getting to the boy's bathroom door in their couple of fifth grade kids standing outside, who I didn't know but they kind of laughed and pushed me and said, you have long, long hair under that thing talking about my turban, you have long hair under that thing. So why don't you use the girl's bathroom and to push me towards the girl's bathroom like a couple of them, and they've been than they said, you know, you can come use the boy's bathroom when your hair is short and you look like one of us, and I remember actually that night I like I, I didn't I don't remember feeling this way before. But that night I actually Snuka procedures under my pillow planning to cut my hair, which, you know, in our in our religious tradition. It's like it's not acceptable. And so that super traumatic for me as a kid. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the first. That's what my actually one of my very first memories as, as a kid simmer and Jeet Singh was, maybe seven or eight. When this happened in hasn't really thought about it since he didn't actually get around the cuttings hair because he was waiting for his parents to fall asleep, and he accidentally passed out I that's how young he was. But that memories still shaped the kind of man that he would become simmering is a scholar of religion and has become a kind of cool headed. Self-made embassador for the community, but didn't start there. I may minutes, Miami and you're listening to man up on this show every week, we tell on stories about our lives and investigate where we get our ideas about what it means to be a man. So I don't usually wear traditional garb, but a few weeks ago was, I ain't the Muslim holiday and this year? We're trying to get back to my roots. So I wore a Gila bay as we call in Egypt. It's this big white ankle length garment with long sleeves, that looks Middle Eastern and very, baller my family and I went to the zoo that day and the funny looks began almost right away. I noticed the difference in how people saw me at first surprise than suspicion then caution after they notice me doing something disarmingly, laughing, or smiling when I was a kid, I would never have done that I didn't want people to see me any different than they already did. So I tried to blend in simmering didn't really have that choice though. He sick. And that means he couldn't really hide. So this message is brought to you by hotels dot com. So every day, thousands of people will booked trips on hotels dot com. You will later hate like on social media, but to hate like, it's when your friend, Kyle posts and envy worthy vacate photo and you like it, even though you kind of hate it, it's not that you hate Kyle, it's that you hate that. He's awesome trip while you're sitting in the bathroom stall at work. Don't hate like trip. Book your own on hotels dot com and get rewarded basically everywhere hotels dot com. Be there get rewarded. 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Go to boost it boards dot com and use the code man up at checkout to get seventy five dollars off your vehicle. That's boosted boards dot com. Promo code men up at. Check out for seventy five dollars off. It was one of my pet peeves as a kid because I had long hair at three brothers all four of us have relatively feminine features, so before the beard and mustache came in, like everyone always confused us for girls. So as a pet peeve for sure. But only because I thought people weren't. Really understanding it ruined really seeing me in that way they were instructing you. Unlike what a man was supposed to look like and how man will supposed to behave. I don't know if it necessarily in forced in idea of what it meant to. Look what it meant to look like as a man, but it definitely gave me this feeling that what I was what I was doing the way that I looked the way that I live didn't fit into what people expected of me and that, either I could continue my way or I could move into somebody else's. But I couldn't do both. In San Antonio, Texas Cimarron and his three brothers stood out. They all were turbans. A lot of his neighborhood had never seen one before, except on the news never mind that he was sick now Muslim, he was a Brown kid with an unfamiliar religion. And they expected him to prove their ideas wrong that could be a lot of responsibility, especially on kids, still insecure about the way that they look. So I always had this purge to compensate for the way that I looked, I would smile more and smile at people at a distance, who I thought were visibly uncomfortable by who I was in the way that I presented myself. So I always tried to put on this happy face and tried to be like the friendly neighborhood Muslim guy. Did you do anything like that when you were growing up, I definitely so so culturally in Texas like in San Antonio waste if you don't say hi to everyone you pass by on the street. You're being rude. And so, like I always said hi to everyone always mild, but everyone did, so it wasn't like particular to me. I didn't think of it as like a. I need to present myself, as a model minority or something. So then hospitality. Yeah, exactly. But there there are things that, that I am thoughtful about. Right. So think about this coming from the perspective of someone like myself, you, you walk through reports. Everyone's already likes skeptical of you. Then you go through airport security, and you get pulled aside and for a secondary screaming right like a standard racial profiling practice. And this is like part of the policy. Right. So it's every single time. Sometimes you get brought to the Mahamadou I call it. You sitting there waiting for your name to be calling assist MAC Muhammad. That's hilarious. Hamad over. Then everyone's looking at you. Right. And they're like, oh, if those guys are scared of, if the government's is scared, scared of these guys than I should probably be worried about them to then you get to the gate and everyone's like all damn that guys on my flight. I don't wanna sit next to him, then you get on the airplane and everyone's like shit like this is real. And so I'm thoughtful about that. And like when I'm when with my girls now I find, it's totally different, right? Like they're two little babies and people are like, oh, that guy might be a real human, right? But, but if I'm not. When I'm not with my girls. Like sometimes I'm thoughtful now about, like, should I speak in job, your English? What if I'm on the phone or should I like, here's something like if I have my headphones in people treat me very differently than if I don't. Because if I have my headphones in they're like, oh, that guy's probably modern normal person like they hear that. I don't have an accent. They're less worried. But then, again, I, I find that all those things to be compromised for myself because I'm like, why am I changing who I am to make these people feel comfortable like they should be accepting me for who I am? So it's yeah. It's, it's one of those things where no matter what I do I'm like, man, I wish I didn't have to do this. I think that's, that's the it's taxing things that you have to consider everywhere you go. It's kind of interesting. I always tell people when they asked me when did you become so religious people who knew me when I was younger, it's, it's when I started becoming so exposed to slim, Forbes and more, I felt like I needed to be confident in what I was saying in order to compensate for my for my just being different. I needed to stand stronger as like you're describing, I think back to those moments those sparse moments of, of being reminded that you are different just by the way, the people treat us, unexpected and. It takes me some time to remember them, especially as they happen. I don't necessarily think this, this is an Islamophobe thing, or, oh, this is kind of racist or it just kind of happens then afterwards, like, wait was was that raises, my brothers and I had this really funny conversation recently made funny. But sad to we went to a public high school just outside of San Antonio. And one of my brothers said, hey deal, remembering this wrong, do you remember confederate flags on the backs of the pickup trucks at our school, and all of a sort of like pause for a second? We're like, yeah. Like a lot of those and like it didn't strike us as weird kids. Like it's totally weird. I mean, like a lot of my childhood. I see as normal like my brothers and I sorry selves as normal. We didn't really think too much about it. And then, like, things would come up right? Like we remember this was also an elementary school. We go to a roller skating rink in the manager, kicked us out because of their headwear policy rightly know turbines, here, we're kids. We don't know where upset and it doesn't seem right. So like those kinds of things. And they form an impression on you, but it's not like that. Moment was so seared into my consciousness. Then, like everywhere I went, I was looking for some sort of bigotry, or discrimination, or something. So it's like it's this funny existence where like you only know what's normal to you marginalization in general, like that just weighs on you and it really can take toll over time. But one of the things that I draw from my tradition as a sick is this idea of what we call Bigalow, like always, always finding optimism and everything. And I think the power of that really right? Like it is it is sort of somewhat forced. There's bad stuff happening all the time and painful stuff that you have to deal with. But being able to find hope doesn't just mean that you were deluding yourself into some false reality. It also means that you are then giving yourself a direction to go and shaping yourself as a person, right? Like what kind of person do you wanna be in? How do you how? You grow into despite despite all the nastiness that's out there, and I think that, that to me has been the power of that idea. Well, that's amazing. How has that influenced your your masculinity? Do you think it has Le let me say this, like my mic experiences as a sick man have have really pushed me to lean into the idea of charity gala, and I'll explain what I mean by that? You know in, in our tradition. It's, it's theologically clear, ideologically clear like every cycle, except that our tradition teaches men and women are equal. But there, there are a couple of ways in which that doesn't play out in reality, right? Like, just like any ideology, and one of the ways is the norm has become that sick men are more visibly. Identifiable sick men, wear the turban women have the option to, but don't as commonly, and then because of our facial hair as well. Like we've really stick. Out as men and, and, you know, the kind of things that you and I have been alluding to like this appearance of having Brown skin facial hair turban, like it just puts us into this category. Not just being visible, but looking like who most Americans perceive to be the enemy? And so, so it's been this like weird thing about sick masculinity. Meaning that we've done become targets in our day to day lives and then have to figure out how to negotiate that. And for some people it's, it's not worth it. Right. And they say you know, I'd I'd rather not it's to not have a beard and for me the way the I've tried to manage this issue has been to figure out. What values this idea of, to be gloves talking about through this through this lens of optimism? What values can I lean into from my tradition that can, then help me navigate this sort of hate, and bigotry, that, that I encounter in that our community deals with, when I think about my, my personal masculinity, and how I handle insults? I usually. Feel like I want Justice rarely do I ever act on that feeling. No. But I'll want to. I want to feel satisfied knowing that the person who crossed the line in hurt me was hurt themselves not physically, but, like maybe verbally, your I feel emasculated by it. I feel as though I wasn't able to, to protect myself from it, and I worry that, that might happen a lot for, for people who are the victim of verbal abuse. And I worry that, that might have an impact on some kids, masculinity. Yeah. So, so my main offices at NYU and one of my favorite ways of commuting home is, is running running along the river and back to my apartment and number running, and. And I my headphones end and I hear this guy shouting at me and he's yelling racial slurs. Like he's calling me, Osama. And typically when somebody yells at me, I just sort of ignore it. And especially if I'm working out like I'd rather just keep running. But I turn back and I see he's a young kid. Probably like eighteen twenty if, if I was to just sort of see this from the lens of victimization, I would just sort of see it as this guy's another bigot. He hates me. Because if I look like my life sucks. Right. Which is which is a very common and understandable way of responding to the stuff when you're dealing with Texas city all the time. But because of this idea of looking for the silver lining are looking for hope I decided to go talk to them. And. And it was a good conversation. Like I, I talked about why thought it was messed up and really I think what he said to me the end of it. He said, I you know, I was just joking. I didn't mean it me. And my friends just thought it was funny. And I you know, I think just like we see with young people and other people like try to be funny. And you say things that are the cross the line sometimes. So I think what came out of that situation, not every situation ends up like this. Right. But what comes out of that is, then you have three or four kids who were there together, and they walk away being like all right. I understand why that was messed up and I don't want to do that again. So, yeah. I mean, that's, that's probably my, my best story, my best outcomes. So that's why I shared that one. So like those in, in those situations, they're not personal at all. Like they're not about me like these people are mad at someone else. They have no idea who I am. They don't know anything about me. And so it's, it's actually quite easy. Once you figure out how to deal with something like that to not take it. I. Nally and therefore, not feel emasculated, right, like this is not my problem. This is there a problem and it's my problem in the sense that I recognized that these sort of mentality could lead to harm or violence for others, and that's and that's where I want to step in and really get into the education piece. But in those situations, I don't I don't actually feel emasculated. Last year. I was on Park Avenue, I was waiting for. I'd like send some camera equipment to get repaired. The guy said committed certain time and it wasn't ready. So I was like waiting outside kind of hanging out, and this guy who's drunk smelled terrible had, like had to be like some kind of dark liquor on his breath. And he said, hey, if if any of your cousins back home, ever want to blow up the city I'm gonna put a gun to your head. He put his finger on my forehead, and he's like, I'm gonna blow your brains. And I was thinking in my head like this motherfucker like this is crazy. I was like about to do something. But just the fact that it happened. I was still. I was kind of silent for a second, and I was sort of like drinking all that in, and I looked right in the eye, and I was like, what, like I don't have any words and his friend came from behind him. Who was also drawing. They must have been like drinking a happy hour. Whatever poses go home. Sorry. I'm sorry. And they kinda like both, you know, disappeared into the crowd of New York City, and that was that, and I was left humiliated. I was thinking, so poorly of myself like kind of almost didn't. It didn't have me thinking about politics or implications at that point. It's kind of felt like you know, this is my city I was born like three miles from here, just in Jersey City, and I'm thinking to myself, man, like this hawks, like, I'm I felt I felt shittier I felt like should here, though. I mean I mean let me let me just I let you know that I'm with you, like I've been in that same spot like over and over again. So so that story I told about the kid who I talked to while running and like walked away with a good outcome. What I didn't tell you was less than a week before that a woman like right outside my home, two blocks from where I live was yelling racist stuff may, and I was walking down the street, and I've been dealing with the stuff my whole life. Right. So, like I should have known what to say, but I had no idea like I froze, I totally froze, and I felt that same sort of humiliate, like I was totally ashamed of myself like so much, so that I like couldn't sleep. That night. And then I ended up posting on Facebook and Twitter like, I, I just put a message out there being like, hey, this happened. What do you think I should have done? And it was really like I, I spent the night thinking to myself, what I wished, I would have done, and I couldn't come up with what I what the right answer was like we're put in this position constantly where we have to somehow. Deal deal with someone's anger and hatred. I something that has nothing to do with us. But it's. Yeah. And so how do you how do you deal with? I I don't know kind of like an impossible impossible situation. Like you said, lose lose part of it is just preparing ourselves, right? Like knowing what kinds of situations, we might end up in and, and then being ready. And then I mean, that, that to me is the opposite of emasculating. Right. Like that, to me was really empowering to, to be able to have this conversation be like. Yeah. I can I can turn this loosely situation into a win because I have that agency to do. So as a journalist, I have these kinds of conversations all the time, some of you listening right now might know me for my video series who's afraid of Amos might it. Let me have those conversations on my terms. And he's right. It was really empowering. But you can't expect anyone and everyone to want to but simmered has chosen to embrace this mental. It's who he is the thing about being sick is that I make a con. Decision every day to look the way that I do. And that's been true since childhood. And, and what's, I think what I've taken away from that? And what's, what in retrospect, I think, has been transformative for me is when you learn to embrace being different, right rejecting social norms, consciously and intentionally when you can do that. It's a lot easier to let go of some of what otherwise could be quite intoxicating social expectations. So I think from my own experience being able to just be like on different. Screw the rules, emitted. A lot easier for me to not give in to some of what I think, would be otherwise really negative ways of dealing with the hate that came my way, which would be like being overly defensive or aggressive or violent, or, you know, any of those things, you know, I would say that so much of what I learned through my experiences and the way in which I've come to embody. My identity is very feminine in that sense. Right. Like I talk about love all the time. And I'm like a Brown skin, veered turban, man who like people probably aren't expecting to talk about love, but that, that for me has been only possible, because I don't really care what people think. Right. And I mean I do like I care what people think. But I, but I don't actually feel like I need to live into a certain model of what it means to be a certain way within. This world, right? It's, it's easy for me to reject it. And I think it's only easy for me to reject it because I've never really lived that way before I've chosen, it's been a conscious decision to be different. And I think that yeah that's that's been the big thing. And that for me has been, you know, realizing the power of that experience and the power of. What that can do has then become the impetus for my idea. Of how this world can change. And so. It's not I, I wouldn't say that it's an exclusively Secca message or particular to my sick experience. I think these are universal takeaways that can come through all sorts of case studies communities experiences people. And that's and that sort of how I thought about education like everything I do. Whether it's, you know, writing columns, and articles or showing up on TV or being in the classroom, or working on civil rights cases, like it's all it all goes back to that core piece of education, like how do we bring these values to bear in our society, which needs them so badly? I think that's, that's to me is, is the big question of our time. I've dealt with religious and racial harassment for what feels like my entire life, when it happens, I brush it off and try not to think about it. I don't want to think that I can't handle it. So most times, I don't even try to. But now, I think that, that approach might stop me from feeling and healing. And I ended up carrying it around with me like grief and a lot of ways, it shaped the man that I end today because I've never digested, what have gone through discussing it with someone who has, like similar Jeet Singh felt really good by verbalizing. It it became real. He doesn't take it personal and I'm still learning to handle it that way, instead of internalizing it simmer in is showing me how to find the optimism and some semblance of control in that feels like a good place to start. Man up is hosted and written by me. Eight minutes might our producers our camera Druze into Neil Hewitt are executive producers are Jeffrey bloomer, and low and loo Gabriel Roth is editorial director of sleep podcasts June. Thomas is a senior, managing producer slate podcasts and TJ Rafael is the senior producer of this late podcast network. You can Email us at man up as late dot com and tell us what you think of the show and offer suggestions, is there a conversation. You think we should be having let us know, and please leave us a review apple podcasts or wherever you listen? We'll be back next week. With more men up.

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AI Analytics with ThoughtSpot's Co-Founder

Technovation with Peter High (CIO, CTO, CDO, CXO Interviews)

23:26 min | 6 months ago

AI Analytics with ThoughtSpot's Co-Founder

"Welcome to techno vacation a weekly conversation with people who are shaping the technology landscape. I'm Peter Hi. President of Meta Strategy Advisor Technology Executives Ford's columnist author and your host each episode of innovation features insights from top executives thought leaders at the intersection of business technology and innovation. If you like what you hear be grateful that you give us a rating on itunes or through. Whatever other sources you use for podcasts. Please subscribe so you. Don't miss a thing. Thank you my guest. This week is as you'd sing. I Gede is the CO founder and Executive Chairman of spot and organization revolutionizing with search and artificial intelligence the company's focus on making the world more fact driven through a better decision engine prior to founding hotspot as she cofounded utanics which applied design thinking to simplify data center in this interview as she discusses the value of transparency within a comeback in his time in. Silicon Valley as you noticed situations where. There's a disconnect between how executives thanked. What happens reality how much the poor gets to know however as she has built at culture with absolutely nothing to hide as he's chosen to invite all employees or meetings because he claims that employees should know everything that's going on in the company further? He cites this has given young engineers the opportunity to present to some of the most respected investors in Silicon Valley. We also discussed sheets goal for ten UNICORNS to come out of that spot but benefits as she gains taking personal offsites alone frequently. The contemplate the company's priorities per ships company is formed with a variety of other companies and brainstorm new ideas among variety of other topics. We Cover Jeet Singh. Welcome to techno vacation. It's great to speak with you today. Thanks for having me. I thought we begin with your company. Thought spot a company. Co founded in twenty twelve were the CEO or each subsequent six plus years now the executive chairman of the organization. Can you give us a bit of background about thoughts spots and its origins Bob Part You can think of it as thirteen for numbers that will for numbers that makes it really easy for anyone off any level of skills to be able to ask the question and make them Restarted Pardon Twenty twelve The goal of making the word more fact driven because In businesses as well as in partner life people make lots of decisions based on openings and got called and That's all good. Opinions are important that is important as well but if those can be grounded in fact we think businesses can operate better and The work can be a better place when we started the company. What we saw was big. Did I was a big trend of the time. People were able to store lots. And lots of data faster better but the end you consumption the last mile. If you will avert a data pipeline and didn't making that was still very manual marketing manager would have to go to an analyst charts and graphs for them and then look at data and hopefully make it but the problem was it can be sometimes even month for analysts to build those charts. Because they're the sobe and just like we will have democratize information. We are trying to democratize data for businesses to make better decisions. And can you tell me who are if you could offer some perspectives on the industries? You primarily served the extent to which there some where you have particularly a profound penetration and I'd also be interested within those organizations who are the executives who are typically the buyer of a thought spots offering. Yeah so that's basically playing you know Their largest companies in the space Dablo now part of Salesforce and Microsoft has the power. Bi these other companies that we compete with and The industry into the pretty big in an engine services retail with a big Segment for us Telecom and media manufacturing Starting to work with the government as well and The typical buyers or talk about technology. I tend to be. There's a common begin. The combination of a business leader the mall will strive to improve their customer retention and reduced mature Would be a business by it. And then on the technology side it would be a head of analytics date officer or the CIO would be because we are beaten designed for the enterprise and we work with some of the largest companies in the world. You can pick any word go and we would have multiple companies in the fortune. Five hundred companies as customers. Excellence in I'm curious. Also you operate obviously Anna as you. You mentioned even some of the other organizations that That have similar offerings. Perhaps to your own in moreover there's a broader go system in one thinks about data analytics or big data solutions and certainly as extend into machine learning artificial intelligence and so forth. How do you think of thought spots place in the broader ecosystem in to what extent do you? Do you play with those other organizations you integrate with those other organization question activated a couple of different questions there. So let me I share with you how we compete and whatever depends heaters are relative to other players specifically tableau and our be ice. Oh lookit analytics space but we can business intelligence. It's a it's a very ordered vestry it's being access to data and reporting has been around for fifty years longtime ago. People used to build my acid reports on a mainframe systems. Then you had companies like business. Object made it possible for developers reports on databases and then Pablo Panel Rbi Started work on data division. You Know Pablo actually is twenty or company The ESP of one of their founders. Supposed done in a nine hundred ninety eight to three in. Stanford and twenty years ago. The problem they set out to solve was did relation. There's more life to Creating Photoshop. For data you're going to produce very high quality Looking charge talking twenty years. The world has changed so much that if some of the divisions happening in the business and you say newer and newer ecosystem is actually Coming up Did Not that is cloud that it's fast. There's lots of data being generated very fast and On on the data generation side but also the business cycle are pushing people have to move much faster for example if you want to compete in e Commerce. You have to look at Your merchandising every hour or people used to do much indicting once in in order maybe so to given the change that has happened What talksport has buried is a fundamentally maximization of analytics technology That makes it That's very simple for used by anyone who's nontechnical but under the hood because very smart so it can help the nontechnical user make sense of data and it's also extremely scalable and fast so you can deal with all this. Massive data loom that is being generated and that has really allowed us to win From the largest companies as customers and bedding investing significant amounts of money Top spot now has And the court. What we have done is built a new kind of certain. We also use a lot of machine learning to provide the right insights to you at the time We often know what question they should be asking. The business has become so complex. If I I was talking about customer churn earlier if I Have a particular product and Maybe I don't know that that product that is a lot of customer churn building customer in maybe a far or bugler demographic now that question is something. I'm in Arkansas. Do ask because parts part given that we know what your radio responsibility in the business. And what data you care about. The system will come to you and show you the inside automatically using a so far as ecosystem goes Beta you a very broad system there is it ain't degration the polity the data warehousing obviously the security and also there have been Application there sometimes even want to embed analytic their applications and support. Bush has been to really things. One have standard interfaces. We can play along nicely at that level and also a strong partnership with the next generation technology platforms on the outside the partner with Amazon Microsoft and Google. Do a our software to run in my big loud world. Customers can use talked about in any of these providers and Lineman or they can use it on premise. We also partnered with database or writers. Like hopefully they're going pretty quickly and talked about in value to snowflake customers the park. That'd be detained. The players like ordering so that it's very easy for customers to bring data into top spot also partnering with some of the most respected transfer my consulting organization For example permitting name to work with the heels on helping them digital transformation because digital transformation and competing with data has become a strategic better to whatever the automation and pop part being a next generation technology. That Democrat is is access to data to Not only for the decks but also for the Middle Management and frontline workers. It is It has transformative impact on our customers. So we had also pending the companies like being to bring That capability directly to the boardroom. And be able to create Transformation or maybe it also partnering with system integrators that That implement this technology companies like accenture. Infosys and denied. All of them excellence. I also wanted to ask you in the seven plus years now since the company's founding how has your own responsibilities how they evolved as the organization has grown. I've seen you joke that you're the chief coffee maker and you talk about you. Don't get a serving the rest of the organization Lou quite literally but also figuratively as well. I wonder if you can take a moment to just describe the evolution evolution of your role. He has so. I think that is the very well for my whole life teen as a chief. Coffeemaker analogy that at Yogi. Because I really think to build a great company. All that you need to do is to identify a very large market. Which is a huge problem and then the people that are great and and let me specify one. I mean did not using the term lightly I one of the people that are passionate that are drilling that are skilled but people for whom we can create a platform to go best one of their lives. There has to be something in it for them. That they can come to park and grow so I look at my role I As someone who Who needs to recruit people and then and help them been whatever they need to be successful. I feel that I've been very fortunate having been in the Valley Or the last twelve years having done a startup up with the modest level of success At this state I don't see more of myself by I. I WanNa get more success. Patterson that did what really more minutes me excites me and keeps me going. Every day takes me up every day in the morning with a lot of excitement. So that's that's been the core now in a more formal way Last year I Moved from a funeral to an exact chairman role of big hunting and I new From New Donnie. We had worked together and he joined us has the CEO. And the I have a really good relationship we worked together in the from the past we have a shared mission and Rian want we want to talk about but also oh Together we want to make everyone at postpone extremely extremely successful being a great partnership we have already strong leadership team and I was just being here. He has a very strong by on in filthy. Took NEW GANNEX. From a leader to four billion dollars in revenue. I have been working on products for the last few years. The my passion is really building products that Unlike anything else that's already many problem. I also enjoy Design and you'll get experience so with him being here. I have the flexibility to spend sixty seventy percent of my time on product and other thirty forty percent Goes with customers partners. You've also talked about the necessity in advantages in fact of trump transparent culture. You've mentioned in interviews that I've seen that the company was passed a hundred when you were still treating board meetings like all hands meetings and I wonder if you could talk a bit about the advantages of that level of transparency so I have Hadn't been in the valley for a while I've seen some situations where you know the transparency At the board level later that disconnect between how exact team and thinking about things what is happening in reality and how much board Gets to know because board meetings happen Ones in the water Obviously talking to board members on a one off basis here and there but Board meetings happening once in a quarter and It's not enough stew for just the acting to communicate with the with the board And give them a little perspective. Miami was that there should be nothing to hide. I wonder if a culture where there is absolutely nothing to hide and Sometimes not admitting and try to sort of packet up things for the board And I wanted to make it completely. Unadulterated that's why I said. Why don't we invite all the employees? What board meetings because the employees of the company you know everything that is going on and It will keep the executive on actually what I used to do. When we were small I used to prevent maybe on our about fit but I would have maybe the most union people organization comment to them to the board Tell what they're doing What is working? What's not working and It provided provided a lot of Very detailed view of the business and the product with the board. I'll tell you what they get it for. Young engineers to comment for them to some of the most respected investors. Because one of my both Is that In the next years I would love for any UNICORNS to be born out of tar spot. you know. We are building a great company but we had very ambitious people and My goal is to give them complete visibility and expedience of building a company that they can go on to start companies and make them really big So having these kinds of board meetings and interactions also gave opportunities for employees who become comfortable interacting with the expected investors and board members. And hopefully. That'll be an accident. That will help them in future. Very interesting indeed. And another thing that I found fascinating about your background and your practices is the practice of developing or pursuing solo site as you have framed them each month as I understand it. You schedule an offsite just for yourself. Book a hotel room creating agenda with objectives and then spend the evening and the entire next day alone focusing on solving those or working towards those objectives and. I wonder if you could talk a bit about that. That process of the advantages of so doing. And why you've incorporated that into into your own business rhythm definitely this. I think there's other leaders. Also that have done this end. I personally found that as business becomes more complex. The number of people number of products number of young. He's one of those increase You need more and more time to think that he had had and Lets you find some dedicated time to do that? It is very easy to get caught up in the day to day and week to week and month to month work and and lose the big picture so that is why. I sort of created this thing where I would have a dedicated. A big to Go some bit and just take a couple of steps back. Think through what is working. What ARE OUR PRIORITIES? What challenges and try and be a victim as possible and evaluating priorities obviously also do all sites actually just came back from one. The last few days Every had all the product All the dealership company delays to look at her penalties but As an individual I think is very important for people to find Some Solo Times. They can Introspective and get ready and that I think is bacteria that is not necessarily just for you know someone who's a leader by at a specific level By the CEO or chairman. I think it's good practice that Can work are practically every leader every and their dog nation because the the complexity of the businesses really including and I find that oftentimes people just keep doing what they're doing. It's important to find that the space of mindfulness where you can take a step back and get ready for appreciate you sharing those anecdotes. Very interesting I want to also ask you. You alluded to earlier. That you've been a product person for quite some time including its stints at major organizations honeywell and Oracle among them before co founding utanics in two thousand nine and then of course Founding doubts thought spotted which we've been speaking about through most of our conversation. I wonder if you could talk a bit about the evolution of your career from Understanding leading product Product having product responsibilities at major organizations and then eventually getting to the point of of Pursuing companies of your own. A key talk a bit about that journey. Yeah definitely I worked at a company go As as I started job but I got the opportunity to build a new product from scratch. While they're tiny will and that was really amazing experience for me when I think that. Hardly you learn entrepreneurship in lodged on me but found That could be amazing experience so I got an opportunity to what the very forward thinking that will You are building software for aerospace industry. Par- they more diagnostics far and At about engines and he wanted to really build a consumer class you that experience for the maintenance crew talk at the time because they're talking about two thousand three two hundred four months before ipad and IPHONE had Had shown us What design can do So we One from this project and we also Hired ideal one of the best design firms in the word who help us mid the stadiums and the design of the service and software and back exposure design. Thinking has released stayed with me since then whether it was new panics. That'd be applied design thinking to simplify it enter our At talks part where really simplifying data through design thinking I I have seen the transformative power up. What design can do and I can never do anything myself but I have been very passionate about including senior design. Leaders are design talent and I get a lot of energy by hanging out with our our design and product teams depending on a Leah's and focusing on simply fighting because making the complex simple extremely extremely hard. They eighty year working on analytics. You know by definition hard in a complex problem but it's been a lot of fun To simplify it and make it. Ask Them As I think it starts quickey in You've alluded to The sanctity and under understandably especially in business of yours of finding and and providing opportunities for great people and being based in Silicon Valley as you are Which is perhaps one of the most acute crucibles of you know the for the war. On talents were four talent. Rather I. I wonder if you could take a moment and talk a bit about how you've thought about that. How do you go about attracting great people when the the great people themselves of course have so many opportunities within driving distance? Yeah so the reality is that You know the talent is now ready global and we ought to act more than fifty bucks dot com. You know is outside of The video And we've had a very explicit no issue culture where We don't want to limit ourselves with just Being company. Obviously there's a lot of talent in Silicon Valley and and and it's It's a very competitive market. And we have done fairly well in being able to recruit from Some of the best names that they can find it in the valley whether school apple facebook to attract some really strong talent from there but Other focus to build a company of the Global Company for RND. We have See Senators right now. That is that is he. Actually in Bangalore and In Vietnam also looking at locations in Europe or neutering talent and I think it is a difficult settled team. You know if you sit in the Ivory Tower Carl Silicon Valley. Anything that That is all the that they're to the word I think. You Limit Yourself We have made sure that we treat all locations as binary knitting enters so be hired Oftentimes you'd see that companies would have on product managers designers. One location might hide university in other places but most if not all of the critical decision making in order to We have been more distributor decision making model and Forbade Rehire Product managers designers engineers in all locations by the independent parts of teams that can operate independently and make students. So I think that Completely differently even starts to independently on how to Based companies that are new even companies like club that have actually offices The all from The mortar locations. It's more than six hundred people completely So there is a lot for us to learn. The technology industry needs to be minutes thinking on out. Lopate globally as you'd sing. Thank you so much for taking time to speak with me today and tell share some perspectives from your career. Your Entrepreneurial Journey your time at thought spots. It's been a great conversation. Thank you so much for having me on your show. It's a pleasure. Thanks for tuning in. Please join me next week when my guest we might. Ls The chief digital officer and chief customer officer of Johnson controls.

Silicon Valley executive CEO partner officer chairman Microsoft Pablo Panel Ford Peter Hi Jeet Singh Stanford Ivory Tower Carl Silicon Valle Infosys Executive Chairman of spot apple
Where's the Line Between Cultural Appropriation and Appreciation?

BrainStuff

08:06 min | 1 year ago

Where's the Line Between Cultural Appropriation and Appreciation?

"It was a writing camp at a house in the Hamptons for beyond say, she's walking around with her baby walking from room to room, just listening to what we were working on. I remember Hurrell showed up at the front door. He had like a CD full beats everybody was slinging beats at her. When I remember, I kept getting to the end of the course to look a hill goes here like because it needs another section like the the anthem stadium like everybody screams it. Record it into my phone when I was running like, I'm sitting here panting into the phone. And that was that was it. And she was like, Kratz you, have you have Beyonce's for single like. Like what, what an interesting day that was, I'm Dave Stewart songwriter producer co founder of Eurythmics and co creator, and executive producer of land the show all about the intimate mysterious autumn sowing. Join us for sung lands podcast on iheartradio app. Alert podcast. Welcome to brainstorm production of I heart radio. Hey, brain stuff. Lauren Bogle bomb here. Let's talk about the complex definitions and pitfalls of cultural procreation and cultural appreciation in may of two thousand nineteen Nordstrom had to apologize for advertising turban designed by Gucci that they were selling four seven hundred ninety dollars which closely resembled sacred turbans worn by people of the Sikh faith, Cimarron Jeet Singh, a senior fellow at the New York based Sikh coalition told the Associated Press we feel that companies are commodifying and capitalizing on something that is dear and sacred to people around the world. Nordstrom stopped carrying the product though, Gucci has not yet responded to the criticism in February Gucci got in trouble for featuring a black sweater that could be pulled over the chin and nose. The sweater had a cut out for the mouth framed by giant red lips that call to mind images of black face for many people Gucci ended up removing the offending garment the health food restaurants. Sweet green also recently came under fire for using hip hop. Lyrics of black artists to promote items on their menu in predominantly, wealthier whiter neighborhoods. The rise of social media has significantly contributed to public outcries against what some people see is the exploitation of cultures that historically have been marginalized, for instance. Brazilian model L, asandra Ambrosio was heavily criticised on Instagram for posting a picture of herself wearing a sacred native American headpiece as a fashion item to the two thousand fourteen Coachella music festival others argue that the movement has gone too far in persecuting people who mean no harm. So where's the line? On the most basic level, cultural, appropriation happens when a member of one culture uses the products hair, clothing, customs, etc of another culture of which they are not a member. This in itself is not fundamentally wrong says philosophy professor, Eric Mathis who teaches at Wesley college and has written about cultural appropriation, if it was with all be in deep trouble given how interactions between cultures have been going on for millennia. So when does it cross the line from something benign, or even productive to something that causes harm the reality is that there's simply no hard and fast rule? It depends on the context and a few key factors. Make the determination power intent and outcome. For example, if you're a white American and a close friend of yours invites you to their traditional Indian wedding. It would likely be fine for you to Don traditional Indian clothing for the occasion. Your intent would be to honor your friends wish and show respect for their traditions, now say before the festivities, you're running a last minute, errand bump into a white American friend. They can't get over how great you look in your sorry and snap a photo. They posted on Instagram without mentioning the wedding tag. You an ad hashtag Bollywood, you end or your friend might be in trouble for procreating, where perhaps, mocking culture, in this case, the style of dress that in the US has historically been marginalized, and let's take it. One step further say the sorry, you're wearing was designed by big name, western brand did the companies seek consent from an Indian culture to use traditional designs in their clothing. This is where the logic of cultural, appropriation gets messy. Of course you can't ask a culture for consent. Cultures are fluid and often have ill defined boundaries. If you're a celebrity with millions of followers around the world, the possibility of offending someone is compounded. As when beyond say, performed Indian wedding in two thousand eighteen wearing an Indian inspired outfit, including a deeply V-necked, and the high side, slit dress, plus quasi traditional jewelry as is said, taking a picture of something that might be viewed as wrong in one context and broadcasting net to the entire world is inevitably going to result in disagreement. What's important in these cases of cultural exchange is due diligence Mathis notes. If someone from a marginalized culture, raises a concern should investigate to find out why the best source for this information is always going to be people from that culture. Other people, even with the best of intentions might misrepresent. The issues at hand math is also advises against speaking out on behalf of other cultures though. At personally say that if you do your research, and perhaps consult with a friend or a public Representative from that culture, it can be helpful for someone of a dominant culture to check their friends and families behavior the what constitutes good ally. Chef is a whole other episode. Critics say that this whole movement against cultural appropriation is causing some people to be less open to cultural exchange a Jenny Evans, in an article for the Atlantic said, no matter how much I love cable, knits, sweaters and Grier cheese. I don't want to live in a world where the only cultural inspiration. I'm entitled to comes from my roots in Ireland Switzerland and eastern Europe, there are legitimate reasons to step carefully when dressing ourselves with the clothing arts artifacts or ideas of other cultures. But please, let's banish the idea that appropriating elements from one another's. Cultures is in itself, problematic. Mathis agrees that in some cases an overabundance of caution can also cause harm. For example, say you traveling through New Mexico and stop it an arts and crafts show because of how much negative attention, there's been lately about Coachella. Attendees, wearing native American headdresses. You wind up not buying anything from the native American booths for fear of acting offensively but arts and crafts are, how many native American support themselves and their families. In fact, in nineteen thirty five the US government passed the Indian arts and crafts act, which outlaws marketing products in a way that suggests they were created by native Americans if they were not the intent was to protect the livelihoods of native crafts, people learning about the art you're buying and the traditions behind. It can help you purchase and display the art. Respectfully. Critics have also accused the movement against cultural appropriation for being overly sensitive here. Mathis pushes back. He said, when you think about the changes in contemporary, culture that allow for the possibility of making clear public statements about ways in which you've been marginalized or oppressed. That's a good thing in a context in which people feel free to talk about those experiences, if it leads to people, sometimes going overboard, that's a cost we can deal with. This episode was by Daniel DVD's and produced by Tyler clang brain stuff is a production of iheartradio's, how stuff works for more on this, and lots of other sticky important topics. Visit our home planet has stuff works dot com and for more podcasts, my heart radio radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, their brain stuff listeners, we need your help. So the ads that you listen to make this podcast possible, but we want you to listen to ones that are actually useful. We have a listener survey up on our show website, brain stuff show dot com, where you can go and let us know what you're most interested in it should take less than five minutes just head on over to brain stuff show dot com and let us know and thank you so much for listening.

Eric Mathis Gucci Instagram US Hurrell Beyonce Nordstrom Nordstrom Lauren Bogle asandra Ambrosio New Mexico iheartradio Associated Press Dave Stewart New York Europe Cimarron Jeet Singh apple Daniel DVD
103: They Call Us Becoming Less Racist

They Call Us Bruce

58:14 min | 3 months ago

103: They Call Us Becoming Less Racist

"Own. Hey guys. This is Jeff. Just let me know that this is a special collaboration. We're doing with the podcast of Cimarron Sing. Becoming less racist something that we care a lot about ourselves, so what you'll be doing is a fictional villain. I had with Cimarron. And we take things back into our direction towards the end so to get a little bit of that. They call US Bruce Goodness to. Listen Up. Everyone thanks for joining our program becoming less racist lighting the way anti-racism. Delighted to have you all today here were discussing Anti Asian bias, and we're joined by two activists might know already through their work though you and Jeff Dane. And I'm excited to have them here and so grateful for their voices. This is actually a special episode that we're publishing. Here on this show, and also on their podcast they call us Rooks, so we'll have a slightly different format today, but will still be doing the same deep dive into anti-racism that we do in every episode. Before return to our conversation, I just want to give you a quick word on the program. Our vision is to offer to things that we believe the world needs badly right now. I we want to offer you insight into what's actually going on with racism. And that's why each episode focuses on a particular aspect of racism and helps us go through it to better understand it. Is James Baldwin so beautifully stated if I love you, I have to make you conscious of the things you don't see. The other thing we hope to do here is to receive guidance from our expert. Guests on how to move from just understanding racism into taking action, and this comes in different forms that could come as wisdom on how to grapple with the racist ideas embedded within ourselves. It may come on guidance on how to be an activist and deal with problems outside of ourselves inside of our society. But at the end of the day were really looking to move towards. So. That's the vision for today. That's the plan. Thank you all for joining us here. We just introduce our guest briefly I folded the work of bill and Jeff for years now I've learned so much from them along the way. angry Asian man was actually. One of my own introductions online activism it's been a force for many of us thinking about how we're minority ties in marginalized, and so fell has played a really important voice in helping the find my own voice online. And Jeff is forced as well and I've learned a ton from reading his pieces on CNN opinion, it sounds like is one. That he's working on for today, any any tastic book that I love called I'm Jackie Chan my life in action, so I'm grateful to them for joining us and still. I, just want to start by in house. Doing today are y'all Oreo owning up. Every day is like every other day it feels. But holding up pretty well. I'm actually on vacation with the family and trying our best to get away from it all while also staying away from everybody. It's kind of a tough line to walk their. Phil Yeah Yeah. Just It's pretty much the same thing it has been for the last. I don't know I've lost count of how long we've been like this hanging in there and trying to keep. Keep it together and then. Witnessing the world, this small little window. Try Not so like. Just you know, scream as pretty much. I appreciate that I WANNA. Jump in by just getting right into waiting. To start with asking. My guess is just to give us a sense of. Your own experiences with racism, could you? Could you share with us your first real memory of dealing with racism? Out to death. That long. Sure? I mean you know? The first experience in the first real experience kind of bakes into it. Question. I think a lot of people have when they talk about racism, which is what is quote unquote real racism right is something as seemingly trivial as somebody calling you a slur as a child in the. Clay ground quote, real racism, or escalate to to threats of violence or Overt, discrimination or otherwise? And I guess the way that I. Address that is I grew up as one of the very. Asian people in an extremely white enclave of New York City and lived in Staten Island, so it wasn't just white. It was a particular kind of way it was mostly. People who? Themselves were immigrants or posting grits white ethnic people in American, irish-american etc.. But. Whose perspectives on people of other races. Very frequently. Didn't take into account that they themselves came from those origins from from abroad and apart. I certainly recall. This typical experiences, the ones we talk about on calls. Bruce right literally, having kids. Strike Martial arts poses at me and. Suggested I come at them with the Kungfu that I did not have. But I think the first incident that really. Underscored to me the environment which I lived in. Was the first time my parents allowed me and my sister out for Halloween. and. It was part of an exercise in which means I. Sister were trying to convince our parents to allow us to engage in American holidays right. began with Christmas than Thanksgiving in both of those had vaguely religious connections that the at the embraced various ways Thanksgiving of courses, a favored immigrant holiday across many different categories, religious or not. But Hollering was something they always? Had A little bit of an issue with not least because it felt. My parents deeply Christian. Felt vaguely you know Weird Tannock. It was expensive and felt incredibly dangerous as well sending your kids out into the night to beg for stuff from neighbors, who, in many cases had an askance view of the fact that we were making their neighborhoods less white. So! We did nevertheless condenser parents The! We did not have costumes, so my parents sent us out in. Essentially Wardrobe that we wore for Chinese school might my sister had her down at dance outfit ribbons outset her. She basically looked like you know she should be performing in circus. And I was in a judo gi, didn't do Kung Fu. But I did do judo at Ymca, and so we went onto the nightdress like that. Almost instantly were set upon by a roving gang of teens who threw eggs at us and called us. Garris of change on names. We managed a fan. The Moscow's My sister actually happened to be carrying a parasol as part for outfits and. Use that to sort of block the eggs as we ran back home and that was our first Halloween. So it was a little bit more trick than treat certainly. Hello is. Out. Okay so for me. This is not my is not my first memory of it but it's the most vivid in the one that has stayed with me all these years. I was in junior high and I was waiting to the boss. said a bus stop waiting for the bus end This car stops at the lightman except in then. There's a group of Teens inside loud music that stop in. The Light Turns Green as this are going, and they pass me this guy hanging out the passenger window. And he pulls his is back in these doing the whole mock Asian language ibs they as they. As, they ride off and so. I always say that you know getting Ching Chong. This kind of like A. That's like like standard-issue like schoolyard. GROWING UP IN AMERICA type. Experience but in that case I got a drive by Ching dogs and so that was A. Wholly unfair as I had no no way retort. You know so, but that one is stuck with me because Because I remember telling my friends about it. Afterwards and they laughed and they thought it was funny and I was just like man. Forget you got like. Yeah. Yeah, so that estate with me up many many years now. I feel just to add the whole point of like standard-issue Ching Right. It really is kind of like a for east. Asians the racism starter kit that we all have actually. Deal with you know because it's it's so ridiculous so trivial seeming and yet once actually that that objectification that sort of sense of other ring sets in. Especially once you get to a point where you start business dismissing in your head opens you up to. An acceptance of a certain status new. Society of you as Somebody who does not belong that will fall you for the rest of your life and I. You know whether it's it comes with a pelting of rotten eggs or simply somebody driving away laughing hysterically. That that little wedge that goes into your brain. It widens and wines and wines takes a long time for you to overcome that. You'll meet. Let me ask you more about that. Because that really struck me when both of you were talking I think because that's that's my own recollection of our childhood, and not just schoolyard, friends or peers, like it was also Reno same kinds of jokes and laughing because I thought got were funny. Until. She we are in twenty twenty and you know where we're grown men now and we're looking back at that like we're kind of laughing as you tell the stories, because not not for the same reasons I, think but kind of. Thinking about how we've how ridiculous it is in a sense but. I think one of the challenges. Especially, especially for me is. Is Is is where you're taking us. Jeff and that is Internet's. It seems trivial, right? It seems like a joke, and a lot of times people when we talk about racism. And Racist Jokes still sort of shrug it off and be like. Oh, I was just kidding. It doesn't really matter. It's like I'd love to hear you both. Talk a little bit more about why it matters right. Like Phil you're telling the story from. Decades ago I guess a couple of decades ago, but it stuck with you and like on the one hand. You're kind of laughing about it, but on the other hand it seems to have made an impression and so. What does it seem like it sticks around so much? I think. We're laughing cause of the pain. Because it hurts. And that's where the comic now. I. Think it's it's. It's not just Any one incident. That really sticks with you. It's sort of the collective pain like all these little cuts long the way. That, you have to door and then and become. Part of like Jeff. What you're saying about the acceptance of it, you become like you. You internalize. It becomes part of you right you this thicker skin, and not necessarily for the better, but like because you have to. and so much of it is about reminding you. On. A near daily basis that like you. There are people here who think that you do not belong. You do not belong here because of this. Right the one look at you. One look at this East Asian appearance. And this this this goes for so many different groups as well, but you know for me. It was like this this. Is My. Parents here is what sets me apart and what opens people up to save those things and like arena. Dude on the street can just do that. You know like I don't know you and so That's part of it. The recognition that like Oh. Or my entire life as I have this face. The past and and in the future. This is something that will that people will recognize something that makes you an outsider. You do not belong your guest in this country. In there is you know so? That's that's a big part for me. Yeah I. Would I would add. It's not just gassed. It's sort of ungrateful guest. Right anytime. We choose to complain or raise our voices especially when we raise our voices, not just for our own communities, not just in the face of our own threats, but if we choose to stand in solidarity with other people who encountered racism, there will always be people saying if you don't like this country if you don't like how we do things here than leave right, and that conditional nature of our our belonging of our American, this is so deeply baked into what it means to be Asian American. You know whether south. Asian East Asian Southeast Asian. Et cetera right. But I think that notion of of. What happens when you accept petite racism, right the sort of petty, offenses or or The scorch marks just simply living as a person of color in America's immigrant in America, as being okay is not just thicker skin in the sense of like. Okay, now I can deal with it. Laugh in adult. Ha, ha, it's okay it's it's something which gradually with thickening blinds you write, it makes you self-satisfied and contents that as long as things stay beneath a certain threshold like a background radiation. Then we're okay, and we can ignore that racism is in the air. We breathe in the economy. We belong to in the social institutions. We subscribe to end yes, in ourselves and. I, you know I think especially now there have been so many calls by asian-americans including from ourselves to stand up for ourselves right to to sort of speak out and push back against Anti Asian racism. Each of those calls almost always followed up by people saying. Where were you as asian-americans when these other things are happening, even within our community, right? We're East Asians when South Asians are being targeted right? Where were you when muscles being targeted? Where were you when who were born here in America when she immigrants were targeted? You know, were you? Were you with us then or not? I think that that that thickening that gradual. Blinding of ourselves to the small things that occur to us allow us to take comfort enough in our adjacency to talk to acceptance to simulation to acculturation. In ways that help us to forget the place of others and I think that's more dangerous than virtually anything that we ourselves end up encountering so yeah, you know I I I've had to check myself I feel like quite a lot over the course of even just these last couple of months to not. Make. The efforts that I am and others fill you know and I on our podcast elsewhere. So centered in the conversation that we are not reaching out and ensuring that the conversation has is collaborative. Right appreciate that if you're just joining us, this is becoming less racist and I'm here with Jeff. Yang and no you to. Prominence I don't know station. List Superiors that I felt. A lot rum and You talk about this. We're talking about East Asia in an anti Asian racism. Union talk a bit about. The nature of racism that you each have experienced in that. Your communities experience an you know one of the interesting things that I've. been struggling with is that when we talk about racism? In this country it's usually black and white writing quite quite literally. Re Talk about anti-black next we talk about White Whiteness, and occasionally we talk about round folks. We don't usually talk about East Asians, and they don't figure into the conversation, and they don't really enter into our consciousness numbering. If you have any insight into why that is right? What's what's going on there? How do we stations fit in. From your perspectives. In also, how does how does that make you feel? As as people as as real life, people who deal with racism families deal with racism end up being rendered invisible in a lot of these stations well I think. I mean so much. Is, is why would you the work we do right is just it's just trying to get people to listen and and for us to be visible in that like. We. Exist you know what I mean? I think a lot. There's a lot there's A. I think historical view is like there is a dehumanisation of Asian Americans. Would it comes to sort of our place in this? Country, in the society it's almost like we said before. Just kind of there were like. Were kind of bare, but were not active participants in this in this citizenship in this in this society. And that takes a couple of different forms is like just being ignored and invisible is when it comes to discussing race, but also when it comes to just everything else in a levels of society and participation. The other part of the other part that kind of. Manifest itself in a way that's like. Where we were eight. Like as Americans accept that, and then just be like okay, we'll. Maybe we don't really have a place in the mainstream dialogue about anything. Including race, so maybe we should just extricate ourselves. And we can just get by by not having these hard conversations or not, even participating and. I think that's the view that a lot of Americans have that has kind of disrupted in you know in recent in recent months just because like we cannot ignore this in the kinds of things that happen right now so I think that's a good thing. and for the conversation where people say like. Where have you been all this? Have you been it's like? You like it's. It's okay to be to own up to them like I. You know what I I wasn't there, but I'm here now. so do so like you know whether you are here to learn or take part or whatever it's like. It's okay to be like. For everybody, it'd be like all right. Let's just acknowledge I wasn't there? And some people were but like an but I'm here now. Let's do this, you know. Yeah I think that there has been an absolute change in the weather when it comes to a lot of the conversations I'm having with fellow asian-americans. There's been a gradual more sudden politicization of asian-americans that his occurred Really, even just the last decade. But certainly over the last three months or so there has been a sharp awakening to the fact that being Asian American being comfortably. asian-american does not vaccinate you from the realities of a world that will not allow us to become audible. That will in fact. Use US or target, US or otherwise exploit. The, very! Passively or quietness that we've been stereotyped with. We've never been as quiet or passive as people assume. There have been Asian American people on the front lines of anti racism on the front lines of social justice work from activism. Since the very beginning of of our arrival in this country, I mean you know so many asian-americans even came here. You know the I immigrants to arrive here. Came with messages that were sort of focused on pushing back against. In their own than in America and those things are often lost in the history books. They're elite with so many other aspects culture, simply because we don't control those narratives right. At the same time there is some truth to that notion of of being comfortably in American is something that is an artifact of our privilege. You know I think especially those of us who had the the fortune of being educated of coming from middle class and upper middle class backgrounds of having investment in Lee. Forces made in our futures by our parents. Even right, those are all things which have left us. cocooned a little bit in our own safety in our own self satisfaction, so that has contributed to us, not being a big part of this. Racial conversation in many cases, certainly as a mass as a community right. What I think has also clearly occurred. Is the perception and even the reality that race in America. First and foremost springs from the Cardinal Sin the original sin of slavery of anti blackness in this country right? You know that there has been no other group in this in America. With the exception of native Americans, who have faced the tooth of American racism in quite the same, a sharp and poisonous way and Our. Role in that conversation has frequently been to be sort of you know. There's the pall of black opole of white, and then there's everybody else, and we're part of the everybody else. What is also true however is that we are. In the group that is most likely in a cyclic basis. You Know East Asia and Asian Americans General, but East Asian that particular. Who are even as we're not part of that regular conversation of race in this country were brought forward a cyclic basis to be used as a tool right disrupt that conversation. We are the ones who become the sort of. Holiday surprise. You know every Kenya's years five years eight years, however many years, every generation America seems to go to war with an Asian country or have some sort of conflict or tension with an Asian country and every single stereotype. Every single bigoted framing for Asians comes back an. And is used for a new generation, and that recycling of racist imagery comes. Regularly enough that if we actually studied we. We'd see it, but separated enough so that people can basically grew up in come of age seeking. That was all over before. Blast you in the face Agai-, right? So I think a lot of the work that film I try to. Even with just podcast the writing. We WanNA before this to remind people that this is not new. This has happened before that we as Americans need to be prepared in contrast, an alert and awake right, because if we allow ourselves to not off than we'll be you know we will. Succumb much as as prior waves of Asian Americans have to the forces that necessarily try to uproot US expatriate. US reduce US right and that we can only do so if we're ally ship with others if you're just joining us, this is becoming less racist than here with Jeff Yang Review and We're talking about racism against East Asians today in. One of the things you're talking about your us is is the power and the value of contextual. Today using history as as a way of really seeing what's happening right now and a lot of people. Have Been Incredibly surprised by DONALD TRUMP's Anti Asia rhetoric by the racist terms you. Chinese virus conclude virus. A lot of us haven't been a lot of surprise I think really helpful if you could help us understand. How his comments like, how do we make sense of those comments? How do we make sense of You know the commander in chief using racist terms like that against East Asians. What's what's going on there? And how does it fit into a larger pattern? I think you go along with what Jeff Jut just off. What Jeff just said. He look back in history like it. All kind of makes sense you know what I mean you know for painting. We need find. Somewhere to look to blame for our troubles whether it's economic, anxiety or looking at war starting wars. Abroad in, Asians are just like the next target in a this is the next target. This long history of like finding another to blame it's. And it's all wrapped up in this convenient package right now. Because of what's going on with the pandemic. Cove nineteen, so he's see trump, and then I mean like is a whole other. Like he's a figure who is perfectly placed to all this stuff. You know what I mean not just being present like. Being the personnel, but that aside like using especially now we're election year we're election year in the middle of global pandemic and and we, you know like the trump administration always been at odds with blaming China for what this and that and everything it all comes together, and it's a perfect storm of like you think things are bad right now as we head closer hurdle towards election day. rhetoric will get stronger. It's either you see that his followers and his and also people whose opponents like they eat this stuff up like every time he says Kong flu it's A. It's a headline for three days, and he recognized that as well, but but you know I think it's it's. Lobbing, he's lobbing grenades. in an effort to. To just get towards election date you know but in and and the by honestly the campaign is also guilty of this as well you know like the. You know the first big attack ad that they launched was also. An effort to distance themselves from China is what it's like. It's China becomes the. Ten becomes the target in which we can all direct our anxiety and aggression and everything towards right, and whoever can distance himself and be the most aggressive towards China. Going to win this election I mean that's. I think the Path was laid out and so that's all part of IT I. It becomes an easy thing to and of course like the fallout. Fallout is. A Asian Americans here east stages right who. Many, many people it's like there's no distinction we can. Just kind of. I can like you see that Asian. Face on the street like. I am angry. Let's like direct aggression toward somebody and you saw that a minute. The pandemic get streets, the hated. The street is wrong, Yeah. Yeah, I think the. What's particularly? Pointed about this moment is. Too I think your point earlier Cimarron. How little surprise we really should have that. This is occurring now right that the people who are shocked who are evincing that somehow this is something that could have possibly predicted that the rise of trump. Would lead to the kind of racial targeting that has. Those people are the ones who either through their acura passive. Collaboration has allowed this to happen. Right to say that you're shocked. Now is to say that you blind yourself purposely that you've you've chosen to be ignorant of both history trump's history, but also American history right. Nobody have predicted that we'd be in the middle of a goal pandemic at this very moment. But I think anybody could have predicted that global pandemics would arrive at some point in the future and in the past when we've seen diseases come from abroad especially from A. Those diseases have been associated with humans and the first way that people actually curtail attempts. disease is like targeting people. They blocked migration right the restrict travel. They heard people into a geographies and exclude those geographies. They start referring to those individuals as not humans, but as carriers right, and we saw that all the way back a e earlier days early days of East Asian Immigration Chinese specifically Chinese immigration to America. In the late eighteen hundreds one of the things that actually. was utilized as an excuse for abuse, isolation and restriction of Chinese Migration America wasn't outbreak of bubonic plague. That occurred in China, town. It was associated. By many with certain slanders, like because Chinese people are dirty. It's because Chinese people eat. Rats and rats carry bubonic plague. It's because they are you know foul heathens who don't do any of the things that we devise visuals associated with hygiene and sanitation in medicine, etc, right and That that sense of using disease pestilence as a way to objectify. Asians. Time has continued all the way through to are more present day. You remember SARS. If you remember flu, all these things were exists that were are that originated that really had greatest initial outbreak in Asia in China and in each case they lead to circumstances where Chinese in America were were then excluded in Sean. Attacked stereotypes, so we've seen this before. This is a bad rerun of a crappy movie right, but even though we see, keep on coming back, we still. Claim to be surprised when you have a racist. Ideologue a demagogue like trump rising to power. When you have him very clearly delineating. The targets of his institutionalized racist attack as being I. Muslims second lat next people third Chinese you know fourth, black, capable, but especially black women. You know. He had a row of dominoes. These are all lined up. He was knocking down one after the other. And then when the pandemic came around, trump had already established that he was hurting China in a trade war. Now all of a sudden, he had another excuse to. personalise racial lives the attacks to make them not about foreign policy, but domestic policy. And that's always been the case for associations. Anything that occurs abroad impacts us here, Ainsley anything that. Is Seen as geopolitics becomes domestic policy and impacts us as people as individuals here in America. I WANNA. Leave time for your for your segment for your show that I really test one more question. And that is. How it is this I guess? Criminalization, and demonization of east, Asians a square with square with the model minority setup rights on the one hand. We Look East Asians as dirty disease, ridden or things that you described in on the other hand they are shining examples of what it means to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and achieve the American dream, and so how how does it work that? It's possible to have those two exist intention with one another at the same time. Nobody said racism make any sense I mean. I mean I I think I think that the one like? The I think that the model it shows how tenuous the model minority myth really is right. How out out delicately false it is. And it's held by. By people who do not have our interests in my so i. I mean. You know I think anybody who strives towards. That Model Minority Myth and strives for an come into This false sense of. Identity because of it. I, think you just look at what's happening right now. In the last three months in this country and you see this way anti-aging blinds like none of that really matters this bootstrap and tell you that you could. If you just if as are Asians can work hard. We can achieve this dream. And that we are somehow above this. this conflict. You know if we just achieve I think all that goes out the window easily. When you look at. Everything that's been happening. It's like you know what. In the end you can be, you can be the biggest achiever all you want. You can achieve all these things and you're just. This guy were this face. Brought this disease to our country. And, nobody really cares I mean like. I always think about the the the family that was attacked at like a Sam's Club in Texas by this guy with a nice. This this kid, a toddler and he got. He got caught in the face. Horrific unlike. That kid did it to anything. That kid did. Bring this disease here that you know that guy didn't take anybody's jobs or that guy's not achieving beyond any, but. He was just. Probably in the shopping guard And you're like how? How's this guy? This kid, the blame and I always. My heart always comes back to that in. it tears me because. It just shows like. The Model Minority Myth this this this striving towards whatever. It's it's nobody really believes it. Yeah. That point that racism doesn't have to make sense right. Racists are perfectly capable of paradox of. Of being able to be racist publicly to people who don't know while being married to or parents were friends with grandparents of those same types of people. Within their own families. You know. Racism. Racism embraces contradiction. Because it. It does not require logic. It simply requires ignorance or hate or a willing desire to find oneself to the reality impact of of of racial and other kinds of intolerance and bigotry, but I would also say that you know. So. Here's where we get a little philosophical right. There's like almost like a quantum theory of racism. Where we think of racism is a particle a as. An object or idea that we can locate you know and all we can do what we can do is somehow to. Capture an isolate that particle. Going to be. Removed from our systems that we will no longer have again that racist bone in our bodies that all these racists say they don't have trump. But the reality is that racism is a wave right? Racism isn't just a particle at something that. has both frequency and amplitude that reverberates across time in through space, and that may be the source of this contradiction. The competition racism is this notion that racism has a sort of like quantum effects, right and one of things we can I think easily. Measure is the degree to which racism. Reverberates between these coals of Elevating? Celebrating. The illich coal right where people are excessively. Highlighting, what might be seen as positive features you know which which isn't just the modeling minority missiles things like hyper sexualization. It's all things like erasure of This humanity and that's inherent in. The hard work. Do simply the ourselves right? But that Cole. Reaches a peak, and then something happens usually something external, and all of a sudden you slide off that that peak into the trough of the phobic right from the to the phobic and everything that was seen as positive for is a race to replace with something. Horrific and monstrous and dehumanized in the other direction. I think that occurs for Asian Americans very explicitly. I think for most. Races the most marlyse groups we see a similar kind of way, formerly and I think that if you were to look through history, even our own personal histories, but especially the history of of our our culture. You'll see in that wave pattern. Emanating throughout. So that's my, that's my decidedly a scientific. I'M NOT ASSIZE Guy Jeff. Kind of? pseudoscientific explanation of what that means, but you know it's it's to me. It's fairly convincing because it really does feel. There is a cycle to this and this cycle constantly goes back and forth to polls and at either end of the poll. We suffer. But at one end we suffer as. Objects of Fascination, desire or the other objects of fear and hatred. Thank, you, thank you both for all those insights. I'm happy to pass it back towards you, I know. We're running a little long here, but you have a segment. Which for your show? Too, so let's go ahead and do that. Yeah. This is this is a this is a joint between between the becoming raises, and they call Bruce so wanted to. Try a hand at our signature segment of they call spruce. We call the good, the bad and the W. T. S., Jeff. You WanNa. Lay down the rules of engagement. Yeah, that's the tradition I guess. Let me explain how this game was played. This is as Phil mentioned. Are Senator Segment? It is the the thing that we do with each of our episodes with our guests. If we have a guest and in this case, we have a guest who is also a hosts that is Houston. Run what we do is we take a topic and we serve it up freeways right? We look at it in a roundtable format from the dimensions of the good the thing that we individually WanNa celebrate about that saying we feel as posits, joyful, exhilarating and inspirational. Then the bad thing that we are upset horrified irritated annoyed by Aghast at about that subjects. Just things we've encountered along the way around that subject that are negative and finally the W. W. is the hardest ran. Some ways but also most interesting, because it's not a good or bad, it's a thing we're still puzzling over. It's a thing that we still have to kind of tilt head out and say. About that particular topic. And for this special episode we thought that we would do the good. The bad and the w chefs of becoming less racist. So with that, we always put our guests on the spot, and now that we've switched roles here Cimarron. We'll start with you to talk about the good of becoming less racist and you can interpret these things anyway. You want really more of like A. Trigger for conversation, anything else. It could be personal Broad abstract, but will kick the you. And then we'll go around in circle, and then we'll. We'll take on the next life of that topic. Gold shirt so SO become Louis. Racists the good Inc.. Hardy, the premise of becoming less to recess is is to to understand that racism is about ideas and ideas that are deeply entrenched in all of us, and so I think the challenge that we have as society an individually to write is. Racist in called racist is about the worst thing anyone can call you until we have these collective defenses that come up the moment that term comes up. And now that we're starting to understand racism as something that systemic, and like you said earlier jet as as something in the air that we breathe I think we're starting to think about it a little differently. We're starting to understand that we all carry racist ideas. And that's not something we need to be ashamed of because it's something. We've been taught something. That's been socialized overtime. into becoming less racist. I think the good there Is Is this acceptance a collective acceptance of racism and white supremacy that's been grown within us. And a once we can acknowledge that then we can actually start dealing with it, so I think to me waste. That's kind of the. Big goodness that comes out of. Out of the Subaru, EJ! I'll go next and then fill kick it to you for the third leg of this, because I, really like what said there. Simone and I'm actually GonNa highlight the word becoming. Right in the idea, becoming less racist that this is a process that it's often endless process. You can't stop breathing right, but we can do is. Breathe Clean Air and you can. You can do things to clear the air around you as long as we actually think of. The process of pushing back against both internalized extra racism as long as we don't become satisfied with what we've done. As long as we don't claim that we are free of those racists, bones I think that the notion of becoming less racist is is critical in so many approaches to the way we live our lives and the way we view society, the way your culture. It's it's actually in some ways more challenging to deal with. Those who are I think good in their intentions, but in in being good in in being well intentioned, refused to accept and embrace their participation in a much larger context of institutionalized racism, than it is to simply push back against verbalize overt obvious racism, blasts huma face and the notion of becoming less racist. Less racist, especially, not not racist right is an important way to perspectives that idea. Fill turnover to you. the good of becoming less I'M GONNA I'm GONNA highlight the. The actual real world manifestations of what of what the starting to look like I'm thinking about like like. Actual monuments to racism, like literally being toppled in ways that like, and it's not just that, but all these things that we thought were. Would never happen that. We would never see like an conversation that we never thought we'd see people that. You know were unheard of like suddenly becoming really and. It's everything from. It's everything from the Simpson saying that the APU will no longer be voiced by a white guy. And and other animation roles like things like that to the actual toppling of racist monuments like. Things that people held onto for a long time in this for the sake of fiction, and you're like you know what it doesn't have to be that way and This conversation can start here A lot of them are just things that like nobody ever really. Imagined it was worthwhile or or thought it was just it was too entrenched to happen, but like. It s on somewhere so that's I think that's pretty cool. That's good. Very well well said I, mean you know people I think especially in the notion of coupling monuments. You have people who are actually. Willing to die. Kill for statues stands for. Dead losers traders. and. That just goes to show how important it is for us to interrogate this aspect of our culture even as we look to. Address things like. State violence against black people and. Institutionalized racism in immigration and things like that these adjusted important, so that is a good and Phil I'm GonNa. Kick it back to you to talk about the bad. Of Biko Gang less racist, alison over probably short on time, so I'm going to keep a quick, but the the battle, the battle of becoming less racist. I think it's the work of. Trying to convince someone that something is actually racist. So much so much energy is expended on just trying to convince people like yes, what would happen to me or this thing? This is racist and you can spend so much time arguing about that as opposed to like the solutions like I'm just trying to convince people. That this is wrong you know on, and that is that is an energy sucker in a in a big way, so? That's hard work. Known is going to be easy. Cimarron the bad of becoming less racist in in that. Actually. Maybe it may not be your answer. Brian kind of curious about how you chose that title as the title of the PODCAST. A happy to speak to that and I think the the the bad as as it relates to the title of the show itself Is that it implies that the bar. Is. Is is low. The BAR is. Less racist, which which in his sons like good regret, right like, if everyone was just a little less racist to wipe would be a lot better for a lot of so so so it works in a sense. But I think the goal and and this is what we opened. The show with is the goal is not. Just to be less racist, it's to eventually become Antilock, anti-racist and so Yeah, the the the. Fear of this title in my part is. Or the bad of the title of my cards is that is that people might take take a header. Like okay, that's that's what I need to do The reason that we ended up. Choosing title goes back to what you were saying. Jeff which is. I. Really Think I really believed. That this has to be a process, and we have to elite as for all of us to undergo this and so. I think so many of our conversations around racism are. Overly politicized overly polarized to the point where it leaves no space. For All of us to actually vulnerable in grapple with. These. Things that have been grown inside of US and so I wanted to I wanted to indicate people that this is a space where we'll do that together and I. Try to be honest about my own complicity. Within racism, as as I experienced a, you know not not just somebody who's racial lines, but also someone who. Has Racist ideas in his own and I think. For Me I. Don't think we can get much further editing. We can go very far. I should say we can't go very far. Until. We start doing this this together. And so that's that's not really. Appreciate that. Yeah, you know I think that what you raised as the the challenge inherent in the phrase becoming less racist. Sense, that less is enough as opposed to keeping on making less even less. That is that is a problem that we're actually seeing literally right now. Lots of people saying we've become less racist. That should be good enough anybody right, you know. We have talked toppled four statues. Twenty we have. made it a little harder for police to kill black people and we've captured like five people who've done so and them. That should be good enough for anybody. I think that right now. We are facing this backlash to. This initial wave of backlash against our racist history institutionalized racist present. Right that. Is incredibly problematic and toxic people saying we've got enough time for us to actually sit back and assess. Slow it down a little bit. As if there's going to be another moment coming soon in which these things can be done. I think there's a sense in which the crisis has manifested the crisis trump the crisis of the pandemic, the crisis of our economy in such a wave that we've a singular opportunity to do a lot of things now and. I know that their voices out there saying that we are moving too fast, breaking things, and that there is perhaps an excessive reaction in some cases, but the reality is. We have had hundreds of years. Of Baking these things into. The clay of our nation, the bricks were laid donation breath that were laid by people who were enslaved, who were brought here by people who are drag here's it's and you know. In the case of East Asians right and offered a certain opportunity, but they did not receive for decades later baked into the clay of America by people. Who s they got here? Embrace the myth of American Whiteness as the center of there being. It's GonNa. Take a lot of breaking for us to actually make a society. That isn't resting on that foundation. And while nobody thinks is not going to be hard and painful. Nobody should be thinking that it should be over this this quickly. All right sorry should be faster and in this last round, but I will take a stab at the W. t. f. become less racist, a kick Phil and then surround will ask you to close things off. For me, the go pf of become less racist frankly is. As as with most of these things, the fact that we actually have to. Assert that it's necessary. You know the fact that a lot of times you tell people don't think of themselves racists that it is a job for us to become less racist. They will recoil and to your point earlier. Run Santorum are angrier at being called racist than actually at racism. Right! That's that's the thing which would boggles every single time. Phil. Let me take it to you. What's the WEF of becoming less racist? Okay, so mine is the. Prevailing belief that I've encountered that that. If we just. If there's just waited racist and will get better time like like Shirley we're. We're in a better place than we were ten twenty thirty years ago and so we just leave it alone. Things just like though the old the old. The old racist will die off and that all the way will be gone, and everything will be okay, and that is simply a like is just not true like there's a renewal. There's a renewal of racism that happens of every generation. This takes hard maintenance and it it. It just takes a lot of work obviously like it takes some toppling of of of. Of Terrible Shit you and so so like it's this lazy view of of of anti-racist work. Where like just leave it alone in? I don't know somehow miraculously. Get better and I see this way too much I see it a lot and I like I think it's actually like super destructive and harmful for anybody who's trying to get anything done? People who'd say that are treating racism exactly as they are treating corona right to? Like it'll just you know. Just forget mass social distancing. We'll just like walk out there and tomorrow. It'll just disappear like trump says anyway alright. Cimarron taken away for the final leg of our journey. I go a bunch of different directions with this, but the win that I've been thinking about. Quite a few days is is one that's come up fairly often, and that's the idea of American exceptionalism. This. Feeling of cultural supremacy that's instilled in us from a young age this idea that we are far more advanced than any other civilization in history or any other country in the world. And that we have be. the right and the obligation to go help civilize. Other people without dealing with all this mess in our own backyards in you know. coded hits us, and we see how fragile our infrastructure is You know police brutality. It's the news in and we start shutting light on how a racist! Society and and then you're like what are we doing like? Who are we to go around judging other people and so? I mean the very idea of supremacy itself is. is foreign to just just can't get it or Sally but but it at the moment this the particular form of a cultural nationalistic supremacy. Yeah, it makes it makes no sense, but it's still there, right. It's still a real thing. So gotTA figure out how to deal with that. Will thank you very very much on both for having us on and for doing this with US might sign up is just a bank devote again. I've been following you all for for quite some time and have learned a ton from you and I know. You don't have to continue educating us, but you do in some grateful. I'm grateful for that, and just for those who are viewing a note to say that Thursday will sorry on Friday at one pm I will be speaking on Islamic slow racism with windass are sore, so like today and like every day. We'll try and look. At how racism? Affects us in this country and learn about what we can do about it, so so thank you all again, so Jeff, thank you. really really appreciate your time. Thank you, thank you. just want to tell everybody. Remind everybody that they can take us out. At they call Bruce on social media and just google. They calls Bruce could find us and listen to our podcast. We've made it to episode one hundred past one hundred now so. Amazing all bill angry Asian, man on on social, media and Jeff Yang is original spent, so they got good stuff for US online. If you. If you follow, thank you, thank you both really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. You Start Ticker. Piece. You've been listening to call us. Jeff Yang. Our Theme Music is by Cure. This podcast is a member potluck podcast collective. Stories from the Asian American Kennedy Learn More PODCAST POTLUCK DOT com. And thanks for listening.

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The Great Mogul Diamond

GONE

41:16 min | 2 years ago

The Great Mogul Diamond

"The world is full of leaders. Religious military activists heads of state many people look to these leaders for guidance. Some people reject them, but a small percentage want to kill them assassinations looks through the lens of both the target and the assassin and asks did the assassinate she'd his or her underlying objective. And if so how did it change the world search for and subscribe to assassinations wherever you listen to podcasts. In seventeen thirty nine Persian emperor. Nuttier Shah, let an army of approximately twenty thousand men against Mohammad Shah the mogul emperor of India in a ruthless invasion that deer in his troops decimated. Muhammed's armies in what is known as the battle of karnal Muhammed, eventually surrendered handing over his empire in Delhi. This empire wasn't only land but included something so rare and tantalizing its true. Value was incalculable the great mogul diamond. However, this two hundred eighty carat gemstone came with the curse those who came into contact with a great diamond had gone bankrupt been exiled and had their entire empire. Overthrown now. Dear its new owner was not spared in seventeen forty seven assassins broke into the dears quarters and decapitated him. And just like that the great mogul diamond disappeared forever from the annals of history. Hi, I'm Molly. And I'm Richard welcome to gone the show where we search for everything missing. Every other Monday, we examined mysterious disappearances and the theories they spawned from the amber room to Michael Rockefeller, the Cosso paintings to the trust in language. The Roanoke colony to the lost Russian cosmonauts if it's gone, we're looking for it. You can find previous episodes as well. As park has other podcasts on your favorite podcast directory. Some of you have been asking how you can support gone if you enjoy the show the best way to support us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you listen today. We will be looking into the seventeen forty seven disappearance of the great mogul diamond which arose from the dirt of dried riverbed in India and became one of the world's most puzzling precious. Stones the great mogul diamond had a brief and troubling history. It was kept as a testament to its owners wealth and power. But it was never in the same hands for long, the brilliant diamond witness this exile of kings in the fall of empires, but in seventeen forty seven after the assassination of its final owner all records of the diamond virtually disappeared. How could such a grand treasure be so quickly lost to time? Our first theory claims that it ended up in the British crown jewels after England's colonisation of India. Our second theory assumes that the diamond is actually masquerading as another famous diamond the Orlov now residing in a Russian museum. But whether it's hiding in plain sight or the diamond remains in some other unknown location. The great mogul diamond remains a much sought after mystery to fully explore this story. We must go back to the diamonds origins at the center. Her of the earth. Most people believe that diamonds come from coal. But the truth is coal rarely plays. A part in the formation of diamonds coal is produced by ancient plant deposits on the earth surface. But most diamonds come from the earth's mantle nearly one hundred miles below the surface. And when diamonds emerged from those extreme depths. They don't come quietly. There spewed out through violent volcanic eruptions known as kimberlite eruptions. These are extremely rare. And it is believed that the last kimberlite eruption occurred more than twenty five million years ago. The great mogul diamond was most likely formed from one of these eruptions. It was discovered along the Krishna river in the Gulf Kanda mine in India. India was the birthplace of the diamond trade, which probably began around four hundred BC in fact, until seventeen twenty five when diamonds were first discovered in Brazil. India was the only source of these gems. These unique stones were quickly seen as valuable indicators of class status and traded along the silk road a network of trade routes, connecting the east with the west not to mention early civilizations actually believed the diamonds were gifts from the gods. And those who found received them. Would be blessed with wealth strength and good health. If that was the case, they must have believed the great mogul diamond would bring them immortality. Because it was so massive in sixteen fifty six when it made its first real appearance in written histories, the Islamic mogul empire was thriving in India Prusiene, emperor, Shah Jehan whose name means king of the world presided over the throne and his taste for extravagance reflected. This uh contagious title in sixteen thirty two. He commissioned the famed Taj Mahal in Agra a stunning muzzle. EM had built for his young wife after her death Shah Jehan also had the famous peacock throne adorned with gold and covered in rubies emerald and pearls built for himself. But he was about to get even fancier because in sixteen fifty six a wealthy general named emir gem LA came to Delhi and met with Schaja Han too. Establish good diplomatic relations Jemma worked for Dula king of Gaul Kanda India and was trying to broker an alliance between the two leaders, but he didn't come empty-handed among his gifts for the emperor was the great mogul diamond at the time. It was the largest diamond ever discovered in its rough original state. This stone weighed a whopping seven hundred eighty seven and a half carrots. That's equal to more than one hundred and fifty seven grams about as heavy as a billiards ball or half as heavy as a human heart. That's huge the average size for an engagement ring in the US in twenty seventeen was zero point nine carrots. So not even one carat and that size goes for about six thousand dollars, depending on design retailer and other factors to give vague sense of its value. One of the largest diamonds ever sold at auction. Was a one hundred and eighteen carat diamond a fraction of the size of the great mogul that went for thirty point six million dollars in twenty thirteen as for what it looked like it has been described as an egg cut in half the top end formed a cone shape. The opposite end a flat circle this shape was referred to as a rose cut because the shape somewhat resembles a Rosebud rose cuts are relatively rare. And this gave the great mogul diamond. And even more unique quality Shah Jehan was quite pleased with the gift, but ordered that the diamond be cut to make it fit for an emperor such as he the stone in its natural state would not do there were too many aesthetic flaws like lines and cracks which in jeweler speak are called inclusions. Ancient Indian text the round Paryski alluded to the importance of a flawless diamond, saying, quote wise, men should. Not use diamond with visible flaws as a gem and quote, so Jehan hired or tense. Yo boy GIO of Incheon lapidary or gemstone cutter to refine it borough began cutting the stone grinding away all the problematic flaws, but go figure the more he ground, the smaller and lighter the stone. God after Borgias work. The stone was a mere two hundred eighty three carats less than half the size of the original. This would weigh about two ounces as much as a stack of twelve Nichols. Not a billiards ball, but still quite the hefty jewel on. Fortunately, the new size and weight became a bit of a problem. The size of the stone was one of its primary. Appeals emperor Shah Jehan was furious so much so he wanted to execute boy GIO for his poor workmanship. But Jehan stopped short of that. Instead, he find bores yo ten thousand rupees. Basically all the money the diamond cutter had to his name Bormio, pay Jehan and laughed a very poor and shamefaced, man. It seemed that bore geo may have been the first man to fall prey to the curse of the great mogul several years later in sixteen fifty seven Jehan became very ill in his old age this launched a competition for the throne between his four sons. The youngest are ings Zab killed one of his brothers and eventually claim the empire. He sent his father away to the Red Fort as sandstone fortress located on the yarmulke river. It was basically a prison for Schaja Han where he spent the last years of his life until his death in sixteen sixty six whatever happened to respecting your elders little own your own father. And I have to ask could the so-called curse of the diamond have led to John's plight possibly, but we can also blame or ings ABS greed. He wanted the kingdom and all its treasures to himself in colluding. The great mogul diamond are exempt kept all that he wrongfully inherited in a special chamber in the palace. He was very proud of it his collection caught the eye of famous jewel merchant from France named John Baptiste Tavernier Tavernier was a world traveler and Jim aficionado who made six voyages to the east between sixteen thirty two and sixteen sixty eight. He wrote extensively about as experiences eventually publishing the two volume book, the six voyages of John Baptiste Taverny it became a best seller and was translated into four languages in his lifetime. This man was so obsessed with diamonds that he traveled at his own expense in search of them and reveled in the opportunity to study them since only royalty in the extremely affluent could get hold of such prizes tavern gay met with a lot of important global leaders. He was known internationally for his expertise in gemstones. One such leader, which Shah Jehan son king orange ebb who led Tavernier get acquainted with the great mogul diamond. Officers escort a tiger nee into a small chamber where the king was sitting on his throne Tavernier's, then met the chief keeper of the jewels. I cal- Khan who commanded for Unix to fetch the stones. They brought the gyms out on gilded wooden trays covered with red velvet cloths to protect them such presentation. And understandably so Taverny was off by all this and documented the experience writing, quote, the first piece which Cal con put in my hands was the great diamond, which is around rose cut very high on one side on the lower edge. There is a slight crack and a little flaw in it. It's water is beautiful unquote water refers to diamonds degree of brilliance. So according to her knee, a the great mogul was extremely bright and sparkly to put it in simpler, terms, it made quite the impression on him. And he forever. Immortalized it by drawing a sketch of it in his book after this Taverny continued on his journey of Jules leaving the great mogul behind better to have loved and loss than never to have loved at all they say the diamond remained with the mogul empire passing hands to an emperor. By the name of Mohammad Shah in seventeen nineteen a little over fifty years after orange ebb ruled the region, but it would not stay with this new leader for long, perhaps we have the curse to blame for that. Because emperor. Muhammad Shah was in for a world of trouble could the great mogul diamond had been responsible for the fall of Mohammad Shah's empire. We'll find out after the break. Richard. And I have some exciting news for you starting now, you can listen to gone episodes that are older than six months completely ad free exclusively on Stitcher premium. We are always looking for ways to improve listener experience. We found an amazing partner in Stitcher to bring you episodes ad free. Six months after they are released again, this will only affect episodes older than six months. Nothing else will change will still be releasing new gone episodes wherever you listen to podcasts for a free month trial, go to Stitcher premium dot com slash podcast and use promo code park cast that Stitcher premium dot com slash podcast and use promo code park cast. Now back to the story. In seventeen thirty eight mogul emperor Muhammad Shah possessed one of the region's most valued treasures, the great mogul diamond. But that and everything else Mohammed-owned was about to be threatened a bloodthirsty emperor from Persia was coming for the mogul empire. His name was nuttier Shah born in sixteen eighty eight in Khorasani Persia, dear grew up a poor peasant. He was forced into slavery, but escaped captivity in eventually became a soldier the military was where he thrived Nadiri advanced quickly there. But when he conflicted with a high ranking official Nadiri went rogue and formed his own army. Bold move, definitely. And it set the stage for Nadir's rise to power in seventeen twenty nine he freed Persia from Afghan control and seven years later ascended to the throne as emperor of Persia not. Long after he went on a conquering rampage throughout much of the east which led him to just outside of Delhi. India with a foolproof strategy for a takeover at karnal, sixty eight miles north of Delhi. Nadu Shah led his army of twenty thousand against Muhammad Shah's forces consisting of nearly three hundred thousand soldiers and two thousand wars elephants, although deers troops were greatly outnumbered. Muhammed's forces had a disadvantage. There are Tillery was fairly antiquated much too heavy and hard to maneuver Nadir's Shaw. Ever the military strategist used a three prong approach. Dividing? His limited troops into three main sectors using one of these lines of offense as a diversion, Shah commanded an ambush, and it was downhill for the mogul troops from there. The Persians defeated their enemy within three hours of the battles. Start. This was the beginning of the end of the mogul dynasty, Mohammad Shah soon handed over his empire tuna dear soon after the deer began enforcing strict laws and taxation on citizens. The Persian military presence was oppressive soldiers were quick to punish civilians this intern catalyzed an uprising as civilians fought back killing the dears men when the deer himself rode out from his newly claimed palace a man fired a musket at him narrowly missing him, this was the last straw, and it drove nuttier to seek safety at the top of a mosque once there he ordered his men to enter all the areas where Persian soldiers were being attacked and kill every civilian inside. He raised his sword. Which signalled the start of a massacre? Around thirty thousand civilians, including women and children were killed by Persians after the bloodshed now, dear had his men plunder all the riches and treasures of the mogul dynasty, stealing the famous peacock throne. And of course, the legendary great mogul diamond, sadly, Nadir's bloodlust only increased as he traveled the lands to gain more territory, he loved war, and he took pride in decimating villages and cities at one point when told that there would be no war in the afterlife. Dear responded with quote, how can there be any delights there? End quote, his murderous rampages caught up with him though. And he developed severe liver and gastrointestinal problems not to mention his mind began to get the best of him as he became increasingly psychotic. As time went on then in seventeen forty one and assassination. Attempt. Put him over the edge. The deer was convinced that his eldest son raise Kuli Mirza was the man behind the plot. So he had him blinded six years later afternoon deers physical and mental states continued to deteriorate several of his commanders entered his private quarters while he slept once they're they attacked him. But he awoke and fought back. He killed two of them. But the others managed to cut off his head that's in seventeen forty seven deer. Shaw's violent reign came to an end Nydia left behind a treasure trove among the valuables, the great mogul diamond or so we think we don't know for sure because after Nadir's death the diamond couldn't be found or tract. Where did that majestic stone sneak off to was it? Strategically taken or did it simply get lost in the mix. One thing to note is that the great mogul diamond is only called that in John Baptiste have as report that's the name. He gave it many believe that the great mogul diamond could have become the Kohinoor diamond the great mogul diamond disappeared from written history leaving no track record. So in a similar diamond popped up in British records. Some historians and jewelers suggested. It was actually that same stone making a reappearance. Let's take a look at the story of the Kohinoor and see if it lines up with the great mogul, first of all Kohinoor means mountain of light in Persian. According to an article in scientific American it was Nadu Shah who named the great mogul, the Kohinoor when he first laid eyes on it. This would have been in seventeen thirty nine when it fell into his hands after the battle of karnal, perhaps the great mogul was simply renamed by it's last confirmed owner mountain of light sounds as though it would benefit anyone who possessed it, however, Hindu text claimed only a woman could wear the Kohinoor if a man owned it. He would be cursed another aspect which links the two diamonds making a case for their shared identity. Bright Shah Jehan died in captivity after his son, basically imprisoned him. Dear Shah was murdered by his own men in the store. Of the Kohinoor afternoon. Dear Shah's, death, the stone passed to one of his generals Ahmad Shah Durrani, his descendant Shah shoe, John Durrani, eventually got a hold of the diamond and brought it back to India in eighteen thirteen in the early nineteenth century, the Kohinoor diamond pass to shy. Shia of Afghanistan who had inherited it. Now, the maharaja of Punjab India a man by the name of Ron Jeet Singh. Got wind of the Kohinoor prestige. And he wanted it badly. He tried to strike a deal with the Afghan leader. But Shashi ah didn't want to hand it over this caused some diplomatic issues and mighty the political waters between the two regions sing stalled by lying several times. I saying that he pawned the Kohinoor then saying it was lost with a bunch of other jewels. And after the third request he sent a Topaz gem to run Jeet Singh. Cl-? Claiming that was the jewel seeing was furious at the ruse and in a surprising power move Senate guard to she has house to prevent him from drinking or eating for two days. She finally caved and agreed to hand over the diamond. And so it made its way to a new owner yet again in eighteen forty three Duleep Singh. The last of Ranjit Jeet Singh sons became the ruler of Punjab and inherited the Kohinoor. He was only ten years old at the time while this was going on the British of the East India company and the sick empire were entangled in a series of wars for control of the continent. The East India company had first arrived on the shores of India in sixteen eight with two goals in mind established trade and acquire territory in sixteen fifteen the British established a factory at Seurat and eventually formed several trading posts along the coast. The British established large communities around the three primary cities of Calcutta Bombay and Madras, but what started out as a business venture eventually transformed into a military takeover. The company gained a stronghold in the region and eventually began to dominate Indian government and education by eighteen forty nine the British claimed the ultimate victory and gained ownership of Lahore, the capital city of Punjab, and guess what the British wanted the Kohinoor they made this clear in the treaty. They forced young leap sing to sign part of the treaty. Read quote, the gem called the Kohinoor Shelby, surrendered by the maharaja of Lahore to the Queen of England and quote, once surrendered the diamond was put in supposedly safe, keeping it was weighed at one hundred eighty seven carrots, which is almost one hundred less than the last week of the great mogul. So if the coup. Nor is the great mogul diamond. It would have been cut sometime in the century between Shana deers murder and the British acquisition of the diamond. It seems odd that any owners would want to cut the diamond while Taverny did note a slight flaw that an owner might have wanted to remove cutting the diamond that severely seems illogical losing so many carrots would certainly sink its value. But there are Irie similarities between the great mogul diamond and the Kohinoor once it was weighed three members of the British government at Poon job tasked with holding the Kohinoor until they were ordered to do. Otherwise, one of those men. John Lawrence would be the one to keep it on his person. But one night Lawrence place, the diamond which was now encased in a box inside his coat pocket. However when he changed for dinner and removed his coat. He forgot to transfer the diamond about six weeks later. The men received a message that Queen Victoria wanted the diamond immediately. And then came the Ono moment for Lawrence. He didn't know where the diamond was will find out where the diamond went after the break. Now back to the story. In eighteen fifty nine John Lawrence tasked with protecting the Kohinoor diamond had forgotten it in his coat pocket several weeks earlier. And now the Queen of England herself was ordering it to be delivered to her as soon as possible pretending. He knew exactly where it was Lawrence quickly. Ran to find his servant and asked if he had found anything in his coat pocket weeks. Earlier the servant replied, yes. I've found it and put it in one of your boxes. The servant brought the box to him and Lawrence opened it to find the diamond safe and sound. Wow. Can you imagine the relief? Lawrence must've felt what a close call. Indeed, it was it could have easily been stolen or lost. And that would have been a hefty price to pay. Now that the diamond was located it was on its way to England. But I it had to survive the streets of Bombay India and some of its rougher areas it passed through unscathed, and once it reached London it was put an iron box and deposited in the government treasury on July third eighteen fifty the deputy chairman hand delivered to Buckingham Palace for the Queen. But as it crossed into Britain's epicenter it brought with it the whispers of suspicion the legend of this diamond that it carried a bad luck Kerr's became a rumor that swept the nation in many were wary of its potential power. This curse is reminiscent of the curse that came. With the great mogul diamond the similarities between that and the Kohinoor are stacking up and this curse. Only made the Kohinoor. More alluring in England it debuted in the great exhibition in the crystal. Palace in Hyde Park, people came in droves to view it. It was the toast of the town. But then people started to talk and criticize the diamond the main note was that it didn't shine as brilliantly as everyone had hoped. And there was one important man who agreed with the sentiment Prince Albert Queen Victoria's husband. So he ordered it be re cut and polished Prince Albert higher deduction named voice longer a reputable diamond cutter who travelled to London to do the work this process took thirty eight days the gem now weighed one hundred five carrots, but the re cutting allowed it's face to refracted more light. So it appeared to be brighter and more brilliant Queen Victoria began wearing it as broach. There's a photo of her taken in eighteen eighty seven in which she is clad in diamonds, but the Kohinoor stands out as the largest and most notable. The stone wouldn't stay in that broach forever though, it was eventually placed in the center of a Royal crown and Queen Alexandra Victoria's daughter-in-law was the first to wear it. Then in nineteen thirty seven the Kohinoor was reset into a new crown and the Queen Mother began wearing it. The Queen Mother refers to Elizabeth Angela Marguerite bowes-lyon the wife of King, George the sixth and the mother of Queen. Elizabeth the second and Princess, Margaret, she even more it at her own funeral in two thousand two that was the last time the Kohinoor made a public appearance. The diamond remains in the crown and now resides in the jewel house in the tower of London. There's been much controversy surrounding the true ownership of this diamond Indian government officials have repeatedly demanded it be returned citing that it was forcibly taken during England's colonisation of India. According to an article from the telegraph posted in two thousand sixteen the ministry of culture said quote, the government of India further reiterates, its resolve to make all possible efforts to bring back the Kohinoor diamond in an amicable manner, and quote and the controversy continues to this day, but the history of the Kohinoor prior to being in British hands is muddy and it's hard to verify who exactly owned it or where exactly it came from other than a mine in gull Kanda the same area, the great mogul diamond came from could this mean that the Kohinoor was indeed the great mogul diamond at one point, and perhaps it was only its name that changed a mineralogical by the name of James Tennant think. So he believes that the Kohinoor displays similarities to the great mogul described by expert jeweler Jean Baptiste Tavernier during his study of it tenant rights, quote the. Kohinoor had a flaw near the summit which being on a line of cleavage parallel to the upper surface may very possibly have been produced when the upper portion was removed, and quote, if you'll recall much of the great mogul was removed in the mid sixteen hundreds when Shah Jehan had it recovered. However, the Kohinoor wait never matched up with a great mogul. According to record the last known weight of the great mogul was two hundred eighty three carrots. But when the Cohen nor made it to England it was only one hundred eighty seven carrots, some historians. Believe that this is because John Baptiste have Rene may have recorded an inaccurate weighed when he wrote about the great mogul in his report interesting putting the Kohinoor aside for a moment. There's another name another identity that the great mogul could've assumed it's time to hear the story of the Orlov diamond which ended up. In the hands of Russian empress, Catherine the great in seventeen sixty eight. This story is steeped much more in mystery legend and criminal intrigue and it begins in the temple of three wrong gum in southern India. It's unclear how this legend originated, but it's closely tied with the Orlov inside a temple dating back to the mid seventeenth century stanzas statue of the deity Lord rung enough. His eyes were composed of two stunning diamonds in the mid eighteenth century, several countries were competing for territory in India in what is known as the Karnik wars during this time, a French soldier abandoned his post and deserted his unit going under the radar. He found a job near the town of three Ron gum as he worked. He listened to the local speak of the temple and the idol containing the precious jewels. This Frenchman's desire was sparked any knew he had to steal the diamonds. But this would be a most impossible mission. Why because only Hindus were allowed in the temple and the statue remained in a sacred space several enclosures deep, so the Frenchman converted to Hinduism and gain the trust of several priests who worked in the temple eventually he gained access inside. And as he continued to prove his devotion. He was given the task of guardian to the central shrine not long after he began serving. They're a storm struck the land and the Frenchman found himself alone inside the temple. He saw his window of opportunity. He approached the statue stared up at the gleaming diamond is and began to pry one from it's socket until it came free after this. He must have gotten scared because instead of prying out the other diamond the Frenchman fled. He climbed the temple walls managed to swim across a river and navigated the nearby jungles until he reached the city of Madras there. He quickly sold the diamond to a British sea-captain for much less than it was worth probably. So he could get out of the area quickly with some money in his pocket. And maybe he was afraid of a possible curse. It was rumored to carry after that the diamond was sold several times by different merchants until it was purchased by a man named Schaaf RAs, he was an Armenian diamond dealer. Living in Amsterdam the year was seventeen sixty eight twenty one year. After the great mogul disappeared following the deer Shah's assassination count. Gregory Gregoria vich Orlov bought the diamond from Schaaf Ross in Amsterdam like the Frenchman or loft to was on a mission. But instead of stealing jewel he was looking to steal back a heart the heart of Catherine the great born in Prussia in seventeen twenty nine and originally called Sophie, Catherine was the daughter of a German prince who didn't have much money to his name. But what he lacked in funds? He hadn't connections and Catherine was married off to Peter the third of the Romanov dynasty in seventeen forty five. It was hardly a match made in heaven the two couldn't stand. Each other Peter inherited the throne in seventeen sixty two but he was strongly disliked by his people, including his wife who decided to take a lover count Orlov. They began an affair and with the help. His secret group of conspirators planned the assassination of her husband, Peter once the assassination was carried out in seventeen sixty two Catherine became empress. The throne was hers. It was a new horizon involving new responsibilities and new desires or loft became a thing of the past for her. She had her eyes set on new suitors or luff was crushed. He was determined to win Catherine back, and that's what led him to the jeweler named Schaaf RAs who showed him the stunning rose cut diamond. He bought it immediately and had it sent to Catherine while she accepted the diamond with much delight. She didn't rekindle her romance with lawf-, but she did shower him with lavish gifts as she did was all her lovers that was the end of their story. But not the end of the diamonds it was placed in the imperial sceptre a metal rod wielded by the person in power. The diamond remains. In the sceptre, which is displayed in the diamond fund in the Kremlin museum in Russia. Now, there are a number of reasons why some historians have claimed this diamond could be the great mogul. I is the striking similarity between the ARL off and the drawing done by Giambattista vignette back in sixteen sixty five. Both diamonds have the same half egg shape. Both a rose cut stones with similar facets and their coloring. Both diamonds are described as white with a hint of the slightest blue, but there's a specific detail that seems to really intrigued historians Tavernier wrote about it saying there was a slight crack and flaw at the bottom of the great mogul. They're also happens to be a slight indentation at the base of the Orlov that could be this very flaw. The weight of the Orlov is about one hundred ninety carrots slightly more than the Kohinoor was when it first came to England. However, neither diamond matches the supposed weight of the great mogul. Various jewel, experts and historians have debated whether the great mogul might have taken on a new identity following the chaos of war yet. There's another theory that has been tossed around that the great mogul was cut into several smaller pieces and all those pieces went their separate ways. While this is possible. It seems as though whoever came into possession of the great mogul would want to preserve its grandiosity to maintain its value, which leaves us with the likely scenario that the great mogul adopted a new name, and is hiding in plain sight the question is which name did it take. I think it makes the most sense that the great mogul became the Kohinoor Nadir's Shaw who acquired the great mogul after defeating Muhammad Shah called it the co in nor because it reminded him of a mountain of light. Also when drawings were done of the Kohinoor in England it had. Similar diameter to the great mogul when drawn by John Baptiste Tavernier, you make some good points. But I have to say I think it's a stronger possibility that became the Orlov I say this because of the color the Cohen, Noor is simply a white diamond noticeable bluish tinge, but the are lawf- has that blue coloring attributed to the great mogul, the diamonds also share the unusual rose cut and the Orlov diamond closely resembles Tavernier's drawing. Well, I guess we have to acknowledge that there's no definitive answer. But I will say this if you'll recall the great mogul diamond supposedly carried with it occurs that its owner would face terrible misfortune, if the owner was a man, but any female owner would be immune to the curse and actually prosper if we look back at the history of the Kohinoor, especially the female leaders wore it. We see a long line of British women surviving and thriving Queen Victoria, Queen Alexandra Queen Mary the Queen Mother. And even though she doesn't wear it. The diamonds current owner Queen Elizabeth the second is the longest reigning monarch since Queen Victoria. So if you believe the two diamonds are one in the same you're admitting that you buy into the legend of its curse, I guess I am. Yes. Well, whatever the true identity of the great mogul is now we know the great mogul in all its brilliance despite its so called imperfections sparked greed it fed into human hubris. It was one of the most coveted rewards in the spoils of war. It's many wars deaths and assassinations through it sometimes tragic always tense history. The great mogul diamond has probably stood witness to more than we can even imagine. Thanks for tuning in to gone. If you wanna find more episodes or any of par casts other podcasts, you can find us on apple podcasts, Stitcher, Google, play cast box tune in or your favorite podcast directory. Many of you have asked us how you can help the show if you enjoy the show the best way you can do that is to leave a five star review. You can also tell us your theories on Facebook and Instagram at par cast on Twitter at parkas network or at parkas dot com. We'll be back in two weeks with another episode just because it's gone doesn't mean it can't be found gone was created. By max Cutler is a production of Cutler media and is part of the park cast network. It is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by dick Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro. Paul Moller Maggie admire. And Carly Madden gun is written by Jessica Malo and stars. Molly Brandenburg and Richard Rossner. We really want to thank you for all your support with the new content park cast is released. Please don't forget to rate review and subscribe to assassinations as well as our other new podcasts, hostage and kingpins. And if you can tell a friend about your favorite park cast show, it'll really help us out search for assassinations wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Monday.

Kohinoor India Shah Jehan Mohammad Shah England Gregory Gregoria vich Orlov Kohinoor John Baptiste Tavernier Tavern Muhammad Shah John Baptiste Taverny Delhi Richard Rossner John Lawrence Muhammed billiards Catherine Queen Elizabeth Nadir Kohinoor Shelby
Democracy Now! 2019-10-31 Thursday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:02 min | 1 year ago

Democracy Now! 2019-10-31 Thursday

"From New York this is democracy. Now this is a sad day and when our founders drafted the constitution more than two hundred and thirty years ago they included a process that could lead to remove the president from office if he or she abused their power and that is what separates America from so many other nations. There were no kings or Queens here and no one is above the law. The House is voting today to formalize the impeachment process of marks the first vote by the full house related to the impeachment inquiry of President. Trump will get the latest but first we look look at the climate crisis is Chile cancel the upcoming UN climate summit do two weeks of mass street protests. It's a few days. This has been difficult decision a decision that causes us much pain because we perfectly understand the importance of a pack for Chile and the worst comes as a major new study and he warns three hundred million. People are risk from rising sea levels three times more than previous estimates. Plus we go to California where extreme winds up to sixty miles per hour caused new fires to rupture across southern California. We'll speak with Congress. Member Ro Khanna about the growing calls to make Pacific gas and electric public utility. We'll also speak to a woman who risked her life while fighting fires as a prisoner in California I made about fifty desensitize might total check per month was about somewhere around sixty four dollars I believe and I was the one of the highest paid at the Fire Department so the other women that I work side by side with about thirty eight cents an hour plus we speak to a reporter at the Los Angeles Times about her story. Housekeepers and gardeners go to work despite the flames all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now DOT ORG the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman in California. Extreme winds up to sixty d miles per hour caused new fires to erupt across the southern part of the state Wednesday in Ventura County north of Los Angeles. The so-called easy fire came nearly to the doorstep of the Ronald ruled. Reagan Presidential Library as hundreds of firefighters worked to control the blazes. This assuming valley resident David pollock one of thirty thousand residents of the region forced to evacuate eight. The climate change fueled fires so as we get up. Get outta here get the car move and everything else could be replaced theory so you know breathing. Leaving at the end of the day is better than not reading at the end of the day kill as president. Sebastian Panetta announced Wednesday. His nation will not be hosting the UN climate summit in Santiago in December as planned the UN said. It's now looking for an alternative venue. PINEYRO also cancelled the scheduled Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Conference. That's APEC Jack. Has Mass protests against inequality and Chile entered their third week. His announcement came as a shocking new report warns three hundred million. People are at risk from rising acing sea levels three times more than previous estimates will have more on the fires in California and the report after headlines in Los Angeles. Protesters interrupted erupted J.. P. Morgan Chase. EEO Jamie Diamond Wednesday as he appeared at a form on the campus of Ucla Chanting Jamie diamond. The world's on fire unfurling rolling banners calling on the bank to end its investments in coal oil and gas the rainforest action network reports J. P. Morgan Chase invested nearly early two hundred billion dollars fossil fuel projects after the Paris climate agreement was reached in late two thousand fifteen on Capitol Hill fifty youth climate activists with the sunrise movement occupied the offices of California Senator Dianne Feinstein and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Wednesday demanding meaningful action on on climate change organizers Clarita Chair Morrison said in a statement quote Democratic leadership is failing to treat this like the energy the emergency that it is it's business as usual is killing us. She said and North Dakota breach and the keystone pipeline. Wednesday flooded a rural wetland with crude oil from Canada's Tar Tar Sands Walsh County emergency management distributed photos of the massive spill which it said was over a quarter mile long and fifteen feet wide. The agency said the pipeline's operator. TC energy formerly known as Trans. Canada had yet to fix the leak by late Wednesday and that an unknown quantity of oil had leaked. The House of Representatives is voting today to formalize the impeachment process marking the first vote by the full house related to the impeachment inquiry of President. DONALD TRUMP UP. This comes as the top Russia official on the National Security Council. Tim Morrison is scheduled to testify on Capitol Hill. Today on Wednesday it was was reported. Morrison will soon step down from his post. Meanwhile House Democrats have asked trump's former national security adviser John Bolton to testify but his attorney says he would not appear unless he is subpoenaed later in the broadcast. We'll go to Washington. DC to speak with California Congressman Ro Khanna about the latest on the impeachment inquiry on Capitol Hill Democrats on House. Oversight Committee grilled senior immigration official Cancun Tonelli Wednesday over his agency's moves to deport. Immigrants receiving lifesaving medical treatment including children and babies in September following public outcry US citizenship and immigration services versus reversed its decision to end defer deportations for immigrants with serious medical conditions at Wednesday's hearing Missouri Democratic Congressman William Clay Press Kuch Cinelli the acting director of USCIS over the cases of parents of critically. ILL newborn babies. who were told they thirty three days to leave the United States or face deportation? You want to leave the country. Pack up their star take their sick town and go either that or make their case in the immigration process where it's appropriate to do Sol Hall in the middle of them being gene. They're hoping and praying that they save their child's life which is why deferred action continues elsewhere in power rule. Real real. I don't believe is how yield president trump's nominee to fill an open seat on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Nevada lawyer Lawrence Van Dyke broke down in tears Wednesday as lawmakers questioned him about the American bar. Association's finding that he's not doc qualified to become a federal judge in a scathing letter to leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee the ABA determine Van Dyke to be quote arrogant lazy an the idea log and lacking in knowledge of the day to day practice including procedural rules and went on to say he quote lacks humility. Has An entitlement temperament does not I have an open. Mind does not always have a commitment. To being candid and truthful the report also said Van Dyke would not promise to be fair to members of the LGBTQ Q.. Community on Wednesday van Dyke broke down in tears when asked about the findings at his Senate. Confirmation hearing adults say that I do not believe that it is a fundamental belief that all people are created in the image of God. Ah should all be treated with respect. Van Dyke has previously taken hardline positions against gun control marriage equality quality and abortion Indian. Prime Minister Narendra. Modi tightened his control over Kashmir on Wednesday as his government announced plans to split the state of Jammu someone cash made into two federal territories controlled directly by New Delhi over the summer. Massive protests erupted after Moldy revoke special status of the indian-controlled part of the muslim-majority the majority region human rights groups say Modi's government then carried out. Widespread torture extrajudicial killings arbitrary rats and other crimes in Kashmir. Meanwhile Committee militants shot dead five construction workers from eastern India Wednesday. The latest violence came as a group of European Union Law makers from far right parties toward Kashmir appeared in a move decried by human rights groups as a PR stunt. The twenty-seven parliamentarians from countries including France Germany Italy Poland Spain in the UK met with motive for a photo op on Monday. The Pentagon has released video of the US military assault on the compound in Syria. That says killed Isis leader Abu Bakar al-Baghdadi and two of his children on Saturday when he blew up his suicide vest and a tunnel the head of US Central Command General. Frank Mackenzie said Wednesday. Oh by Dadis remains were buried at sea and that the US was on alert for retribution. Attacks the video does not contain any audio of the assault casting further doubt on president. TRUMP'S LURID we're at account made to a national audience Sunday morning that by Daddy died quote whimpering crying and screaming in the Philippines a powerful six point. Six magnitude earthquake rattled the southern island of Mindanao on Thursday morning two days after a similarly sized quake killed eight people flat and buildings and left more than twelve thousand people. The homeless Brazilian presidency or Bolsonaro lashed out Wednesday at Brazil's largest media company Globo after broadcaster. report alleging link between both Sonata. The two men accused of murdering the Rio de Janeiro City Councilwoman Mattioli Franko in March of last year global quoted Doorman who said one of the murder suspects alleged getaway driver L. Ceo Dakota's arrived at both scenarios gated community on the night of the murder and was granted access after calling Bull Sonatas residents to Caddo S- then drove to the home of the second suspect in the murder alleged triggermen Ronnie Lhasa who has a residence in the same area both not oh has denied knowing the suspects even though he appears in a photograph circulated on social media with the Caddo since one of his sons once dated Ronnie lessons daughter. Both Sanada recorded an angry. twenty-three minute diatribe burleigh Wednesday morning from a hotel room in Riyadh. Saudi Arabia. Did but now you try to link me to the murder of Mariella lead you jerks of TV Globo jerks you scoundrels. This will not stick. I don't know anyone anything. No no they will not any gay. uh-huh juvenile becky. I had no reason to kill anyone in Rio de Janeiro. I knew about this council woman. I found out about her on the day she was murdered. which by coincidence incidence was March fourteenth for the love of God? Where are your heads? You have no commonsense. TV Globo in a statement. The committee to Protect Journalists responded minded quote. President Pulse Sonatas threats and insults against Brazil's largest news broadcaster have no place in a democracy unquote. Both are not as tirade came ahead of a fiery address address to the Saudi Investment Forum in Riyadh known as Davos in the desert in this speech. President boasts Nado praised Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman and Donald Trump while blasting French president Emmanuel Macron who criticized Sonata support for the illegal ranchers and miners behind many of the fires sweeping the Amazon rainforest. Colombia's government says it's deploying the military to the southwestern province of Calcutta after five indigenous. People were murdered on the reservation. Six others were wounded in Tuesday's attack after heavily armed assailants opened. Fire with guns and grenades convoy of people responsible for for security in the Semi Autonomous Nassir. Takeo indigenous reserve among the dead was community leader Christine about Teesta Colombian Colombian president. Yvonne duquet traveled to the region Wednesday blaming dissidents in the FARC rebel group who oppose a peace deal but police have made no arrests and no suspects have been named and in the murderers twitter says it will stop accepting all political advertisements worldwide beginning in November CEO. Jack Dorsey announced the change in a series tweets Wednesday writing quote while Internet. Advertising is incredibly powerful and very effective for Marshall advertisers that power brings significant risks to politics where it can be used to influence votes to affect the lives of millions. He said twitter's move comes as facebook. CEO Mark Zuckerberg is under fire for accepting political advertisements percents even when politicians like president trump make demonstrably false or misleading claims forensic pathologist hired by the brother of Jeffrey Epstein. Osteen says the injuries that killed the multi-millionaire sex abuser were consistent with strangulation. Not Death by suicide as a New York medical examiner Samina reported. Dr Michael Baden says a broken bone in epsteins neck is quote extremely unusual and suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicide aside strangulation unquote. Epstein was found dead in his Manhattan Jail Cell in August as he awaited trial federal sex trafficking charges Jeffrey Epstein once counted President Trump and former president Bill Clinton among his high profile friends in Britain Labor. Party leader Jeremy Corbin's formally announced he will challenge Prime Minister. Boris Chris Johnson in an election scheduled for December twelfth today we launched the most ambitious radical campaign. Our country has ever seen gene to bring real change to all parts of this country if you want to live in a society that works for everybody not just the billionaires if you want to save our hospitals schools and public services from Tory cuts and privatization if you want to stop the big polluter's destroying our environment than this election is your chance to vote for it and the Chicago Paco. Teacher's Union reached a tentative contract agreement. Wednesday with the city's Public School System but returned to picket lines today after Mayor Lori lightfoot refused the request to add. Add extra school days to this year's calendar to make up for class time lost to the strike the tentative deal would bring Chicago teachers sixteen percent pay raise over five years without would add thirty five million dollars to efforts to reduce class sizes in related news. CIA local seventy-three the union representing Chicago. School support staff approved their new contract contract with ninety seven percent of the workers voting. Yes and a strong vow to stay in solidarity with the Chicago Teachers Union. They're deal follows a seven day strike and those are some of the headlines Headlines this is democracy now democracy now dot Org the Warren Peace Report. I made me good shape. Welcome to listeners and viewers around the country and around the world world as wildfires continue to rage in California and a shocking new report finds that many coastal cities will be permanently flooded by Rising sea levels she as president. Sebastian Pinera has cancelled the upcoming. UN Climate Summit. The two weeks summit had been scheduled for December in the Chilean Chilean capital of Santiago which has seen weeks of mass protests against the Chilean governments neoliberal policies. The UN is now looking for an alternative venue Nia the annual time at meetings offer a critical space for developing countries to request greater help from rich nations as they confront the worst effects of the climate. Emma Crisis Pioneers announcement comes as a dire. New Report Warns Three hundred million. People are at risk of being displaced due to rising sea levels those three times more than previous estimates according to the study published in nature communications the vast majority of the most vulnerable populations ends are concentrated in Asia with China Bangladesh India Vietnam Indonesia and Thailand facing the gravest threat. The study finds ends. Global Sea levels are expected to rise between two to seven feet and possibly more with some coastal cities being wiped off the map to talk more about out the implications of the latest report. We're joined by two guests here in New York. Benjamin Strauss's with a CEO and chief scientist at Climate Central and Co author of the new study and rising celebrities heartbeat. Sing is the global lead on climate change at action-aid working with climate migrants and a number of countries joining us from New Delhi India. We begin in with Benjamin Strauss. Explain the report the scope of the report and what you found. Well thanks so much for having me amy. And they're mean to discuss discuss such an important issue. We found that the global exposure to sea level rise and coastal flooding in the coming. Several rollback is more than three times. What we thought based on previous data essentially almost all of climate that science has been focused on the question of what the sea level will be in the future which makes sense? That's what's changing sea level is rising but you really need to know two things to understand the human vulnerability to sea level rise and one is the height of the sea but the other is the height of the land. We all assumed that we knew that that it was fixed and simple but in my research with my colleague Scott Culp we. We took a closer look at the data being used to estimate. Land elevations globally and while there is very accurate data in the United States and Australia. Oy and parts of Western Europe. The data set used for Global Analysis and most of Asia and the rest of the world overestimated coastal elevations by more than six feet or two meters. Why did they do that? Why was there such a huge overestimation? The data elevation was was based on measurements taken from satellites. So basically the sensing beams that came down. Were very broad and their footprint and so average in in rooftops buildings treetops with the ground in determining the actual in determining elevation in the data set. Let's let's look at a map. Depicting southern Vietnam could all disappear by two thousand fifty in Shanghai. One of Asia's most important economic engines water threatens to consume the heart of the city and many other cities around it. Yes we've made an interactive map. We published just to map together with the report. So that any of your listeners couldn't look really in any part of the world if they go to coastal dot climate central Dot Org and we found huge changes in the major deltas of Asia compared to what we had previously thought now it is worth also Noting that we discovered more than one hundred million people today live on land. That's below the the high tide line and there's a little piece of hoping that which is that means that most of them are likely to be protected by coastal defences fences to some degree but on the other hand it also means that many people we may not hear about an headlines many people already be suffering from frequent flooding flooding inundation affecting their lives and livelihoods and the new findings are based on an innovative way to read satellites? Yes so what we did is we used artificial intelligence to try and improve on this allocation data from satellites. We took that satellite-based alight based data set but another twenty three variables and we fed it into a big algorithm soup so to speak in order to try and find an approach to improve those data and we used about fifty million data points where where we had a very accurate elevation reading as well as the inaccurate satellite reading to develop and calibrate the model and then we used a completely different sets of points in other areas to show that the model worked even outside of the areas where we trained so. That's that's how we have confidence in these results. Well I'd like to bring a Hug Jeet Singh a into the conversation had jeet Singh is with action aid and he's joining us from New Delhi India. A could you respond to the findings of this report. And in particular the fact that the vast majority of the most vulnerable areas areas vulnerable to sea level rise are in Asia. Thank you for me Hill. Well I'm saddened but not surprised. With all of these scenes that grim reality in different parts of the global south so developing countries who had little role in causing the the model defacing this climate emergency this to put it into context sixteen million people were displaced in twenty five weather-related disasters analogy estimates. That are coming civil rise. If I talk of India it's seven banks more the number and Bangladesh. It's going to be eight times. More than the previous estimate and people are being forced to leave their homes. As their local coping. Mechanisms fail their farms and homes are being swallowed up by see. I've met people who point towards the sea. Several meters from the shoreline to wear their homes used to be an are now underwater. That's-they tim reality. They are facing. They leave their families behind particularly women children and elderly. An you're seeing in this part of the world. Hollow families are getting disintegrated completely and had no place to go and where they land up in album areas and small towns and cities they end up living in inhuman and unhygienic conditions. So that's the reality of Israel already facing and with these numbers it it becomes uh-huh accurately holiday. And how can you talk about. What kind of support? If any of these climate migrants receive to help the move or residual wherever. They're able to go but the reality is that developing countries are also not ready. VR are now facing the climate emergency. What we call it loss and damage in the climate governments? They have not even been ready with their reputation. Plants behold concept the station which means preparing these impacts became much more Active in two zero one and since then they have not got any support from developed countries which is adequate for them to these defenses. That we're talking about whether it's about a coastal protection but it's about attributing homes. It's all are thinking of planned relocation which is being dubbed about now at at the UN level but hardly any support has released these communities and we are talking talking with millions and millions of people in this part of the world are saying. Can you talk about this latest news. That just broke yesterday as More than a million people were in the streets of Chile. This past weekend The pre embattled president pin yet announced that the UN Dan Climate Summit would be cancelled in December it was going to be held in Santiago now the UN has to decide. Whether do they have to put off this climate summit or will they will find an alternative venue but the significance of the cancellation at this point. Let's understand the climate crisis and social unrest in Chile or elsewhere have the same root cause. That's inequality going. Men's continue to prioritize populations petitions all of the rights of people and that's why this uprising unrest that we have seen in Chile now with climate of conference. Sculptor defy being in council. It means it's a major George to the issue that we were supposed to be talking their loss and damage. The Planet Migrants Sir are facing was very much on the agenda and it was all about how the institution that has been created in thirteen needs to be rebooted. We did it can respond. Who currently -ality and the future? So if I if I look connect with what's happening in July what the COP was going to be Discussing and this new report. It's terrible situation that we now been see these gop moving to some of the city and probably for what twenty twenty eighty points are with people of Jilin the fight. The fighting is absolutely real. And as I said the climate justice fight and the social unrest. They're all all connected to the core of inequality and we need to recognize that. That's the core caused behind these challenges. And how can you talk about about that. Inequality also in the context of climate change that countries that have historically Emitted the least are now the most voluble absolutely if you look at historical emissions with the climate crisis that we are facing today is not is not a result of emissions that are happening. Now it's it's it's the Commonwealth lack system so the emissions that have taken business. The last hundred and fifty years are causing the climate crisis that we face today and if to look at these historical emissions United States at the sponsor for more than quarter and another quarter emissions come from European Union. Now that's the inequality equality. Yes China is is the biggest bullet at the moment but historical missions come largely from the United States. And you'll have been union and if you look at the and we shouldn't deduction baggage that they put on the table from United States European Union adamant Japan. It's one fifth of their fair share so civil society organizations have come up with this calculator that looks at that historical responsibility the GDP and give ability and to that solid assessment assessment. You've found there's only one. Fifth and developing countries on the contrary have put their blinds which are far more ambitious and are most of them are aligned with keeping pitcher below two degrees Celsius so that inequality which has caused the problem also exists but it comes to climate action and the business as usual wrote that we see from majority of developed countries is not going to help be the need to the grave situation that we are facing at at this moment. I WanNa ask you about Indonesia. Announcing plans to relocate its capital and the capital city Jakarta. It is going to relocate to the island of Borneo Jakarta which is home to over thirty million people's been steadily sinking into the Java Sea. A study found over a quarter of Jakarta will be under water within the next ten years. Excessive extraction of groundwater poorly managed environmental policies have led to Jakarta's surface-water under becoming polluted and unfit for consumption rising sea levels from climate change further compound the issue. This is the Indonesian President Joko Widodo announcing the plans. The place has a minimum risk of natural disasters such as floods earthquakes to Nami forest. Fires is your fault Kino's and landslides secondly. The location is strategic as it's located in the center of Indonesia and thirdly it's close to the other developed cities it's not clear what will happen to the millions of Jakarta residents at risk of losing their homes and livelihoods as Jakarta is submerged in in the coming years. But I want to ask each of you. This question. Starting with jade sang wants to be unsustainable development model that we have created the continues to exploit nature whether it's about extraction of water at unsustainable levels aren't man-made crisis. The climate change that we have caused. I think we need to look at how we look. At how we treat development what does our definition of development and who who's causing destruction some of these fundamental questions the need to ask our whole orientation towards GDP growth and completely absolutely ignoring. What we are doing? Environment has to change and Bamut now has to be at the center of everything that we are doing how we are using our natural sources how we're building our homes using water. All that has to change and back thinking is not there. Despite some of these challenges the FBI seeing and look at the kind of actions we are now forced to take but our leaders are still stuck with that thinking that corporations uh-huh solve the problem and we're seeing privatization and not really a rebooting the development model that we have created which is responsible. Put all the crisis that we are facing in this world today and then stress. Yes well I think we have to look at Jakarta and really use it to understand understand. We could all be Jakarta tomorrow. And unfortunately it's a model for what could happen to many other coastal cities where we could look at New Orleans which has more resources than has built a levee system to protect itself but when a hurricane comes we saw the tragedy that can take place when you live in the bottom of the bowl and the defenses fail so I think it's a really really important lesson that we have to take great. He'd need of that. Major nation would go to the length of relocating their largest city and their capital city. Trying to do that and very quickly before we conclude a city like Bombay a population of almost twenty million And the greater of Bombay area Large parts of which will be under water according to this report by twenty fifty. That area includes Where to nuclear installations are housed? Oh there's a tremendous amount of infrastructure right by the coast. Everywhere including nuclear facilities hazardous waste sites sites of every kind and as you know if The ocean rises to submerge those areas right. I all kinds of nuclear waste or toxins and other noxious materials can be spread spread around so we we have an enormous clean up or a better defense the defense effort in front of us. This is an entirely new problem. In the course of human civilization we really don't have the institutions of the precedent precedent to deal with the loss of land and I hope that with adequate warning Decades warning we have have some chance of finding investing resources to defend. The place is that we are able. But there's a there's a great inequity of resources around the world it's going to be very expensive and some places just by their geography may be prohibitive to defend so yes. This really is a new a a new chapter and if I can find any silver lining in this it it's hardly one but I'll say that just as the threat from sea level rise and Coastal flooding turns out to be much greater than we thought it was three times greater three hundred three three times times greater people will be affected. The benefits of cutting climate pollution would also be three times greater right so think of the benefit cost a question that moves. Some audience has suddenly changed but on the other hand jeep. Veep made it a very important point. Is that there is a lag in the system so if I put a chunk of ice on the table in front of us right now it's very simple and profound. It wouldn't melt instantly. It would take time so in the same way The ice sheets on Antarctica and greenland inland has just barely begun to respond to the warming that we have already caused. We want to thank you so much for being with us. Benjamin Strauss chief scientist at the news and Science Organization Climate Central and heartbeat sing global lead on climate change at action aids. Speaking to us from New Delhi Dehli India when we come back we continue on the climate crisis by looking at the fires still raging in California the Congress member will speak to is calling for Pge to become a public utility. Then we'll speak with the woman who is a former prisoner who fought fires while incarcerated will also talk about the housekeepers and the workers who are going to a states that are burning where the owners have evacuated but the people are not told. Stay with us. Don't I Ah and this is democracy now democracy now doc war the war and peace. It's report. I'm Amy Goodman Worth Nermeen. Share extreme winds up to sixty miles per hour cause new fires to erupt across southern California Wednesday eh prompting tens of thousands evacuate the blazes are just the latest in a spate of climate change field. Fires threatening the state in Ventura. We're a county north of Los Angeles. The so-called easy fire came nearly to the doorstep of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library as hundreds of firefighters does work to control the blaze. This is a homeowner in the area. I've lived in California all my life here in southern California and we've always encountered that Santa Anna winds in the the fires but not to this extent so in the last five years. He's picking a little bit different and like I said it's a game changer. For us all the new normal news of the latest evacuations came off to the National Weather Service in Los Angeles issued an extreme red flag warning for southern California. Yeah for the first time in its history. Fires in California are typical at this time of year but the length and severity of the state's fire season has grown due to climate change. Evacuations have been lifted for the getty fire which erupted in one of Los Angeles most populous neighborhoods on Monday in northern in California. Firefighters have finally beat back the SONOMA's county kincaid fire that it forced nearly two hundred thousand people to flee their homes over the weekend. Firefighters reaching forty five percent containment of what had been the most threatening fire in California nearly all evacuees in the region of now been allowed to return to their homes. This comes as the public utility delivery giant Pacific Gas and electric said Wednesday. It would begin restoring power to the three hundred sixty five thousand customers who are plunged into darkness over the weekend weekend as fires I erupted across the state. PG Any the corporation that controls most of northern central California's electricity and the biggest utility in America has been implicated many of the fires that have ravaged California in recent years including the campfire that killed eighty five people and completely destroyed the town of Paradise in two two thousand eighteen in January. PG and he declared bankruptcy facing a number of lawsuits related to the wildfires but it still controls much of California's power grid for more. We go to a lawmaker. WHO's calling for the California state government to take over control of PGA Jonah and make it a public utility Congress member o'conner joins US now from Washington? DC congressman kind of later in the broadcast. We're going to talk to you about this epic day around the issue of impeachment but right now we're focusing on what's happening in California which is also to say the least epic and this emerged state of emergency explain for people around the world who don't understand how. PG Any operates what it is now and what you are calling going for first of all. It has been a disaster in the Barrio of where I live People's homes are being destroyed by fire. Many thousands of people are without basic electricity. PG Any is basically a private monopoly that gets a return on investment for their private investors but has no competition. It's the worst of both worlds. It's a monopoly a private monopoly. Beliefs and yet it has exclusive jurisdiction over a particular zone. So he doesn't have the competition that free markets usually have and this has resulted in. PG GM making systematic under investments. They have not secured the power lines. They have not engaged in the brush clearing. That was necessary to make sure that that these fires didn't Escalate they have no provision for backup power even though this was completely Forseeable at the same time they're paying their. CEO The Oh nine point. Eight million dollars and the investors are making money in this match management has led to bankruptcy. What I have said is in a case where you have a private monopoly without competition? That's a case of public ownership where you're not having a profit motive and extractive capitalism. The state should take over. PG and different municipalities should run the power distribution for their cities and then the state should provide it to rural areas where the cities can do the job representative broken. How common is it in the? US that Gas It's an electrician are provided by private corporations. I mean I myself was confused that this. PG is called a public utility but but in fact it's private well. It's technically public investor utility. In other words there is public regulatory oversight over rate The California Public Utilities Commission but it's private investment and it has a private board of directors and they desert determine the executive compensation and the public regulators. Really don't have much ability to move. PG Any at the same time PG pouring millions of dollars into the governor's campaign the state. Legislators campaigns so the process has been co opted by these special interests unfortunately most of the country many states have public investment in utilities and this is why Bernie Sanders and his green new deal. Plan has said that we need to move to publicly owned utilities and we know in publicly the own utilities particularly municipalities are much better. It's lower cost residents there Energy Mix tends to be much more renewable their safety standard. It depends to be much higher and you take the profit motive of extractive capitalism out of it and so what would need to happen for it to to become an actual publicly owned utility controlled by the State of California. And can you explain for example how that might have changed the outcome. Oh come of what happened in Paradise California which burned to the ground killing eighty five people last year absolutely warhead. PGN even a publicly owned utility instead of paying nine point. Eight million dollars to the show. Because there's no way California voters the tax payers would have allowed that. PG would have been required to make the investments in the safety of the power lines. They would have been made forced to make the investment and clearing out the brush or trees where they were in dangerous positions. I hit someone in my district who said that PGN. He had come two months ago saying nine trees needed to be removed because there were a fire hazard and no one has followed up so there would be far more public accountability. There also would be a much larger source awesome renewable energy in my district Silicon Valley power is a public utility and Santa Clara. They have almost forty percent of their energy Be Renewable well They have lower rates and they're much safer so how do we get there. PG and E.. Currently is in bankruptcy their entire market cap is about two billion dollars. California as you know has a state surplus we could easily Take over the the the utility In bankruptcy. Either I either by issuing bonds or by using some of that surplus. We're going to break and then come back to talk about what's happening California. In addition to Congress I remember Ro Khanna. We'll be joined by MECUM OTA who is a former prisoner firefighter and talk about what that means for the prisoners today who were fighting fires and we'll speak with an la times reporter who has been talking to people who are heading to these states that are blazing and the workers don't don't realize this the ownership evacuated but workers haven't been told stay with US fall. False shore donate degree if your expectation talknet and me today always they. Don't please. Don't give me off. Aw please don't give me Mutt true they don't give up on me by Solomon Burke this is democracy now. I'm Amy Goodman with their means. We're continuing to look at the time. It field fires raging across California now turning to how the blazes are disproportionately affecting some of the state's most Volna communities as the New York Times reports. A growing number of rich people are hiring private firefighters to protect their property for up to three two thousand dollars per day. Domestic workers and gardeners who tend to some of the most opulent homes in Los Angeles attended work. Despite the getty fire evacuation wishes order earlier this week. Many of their employers failed to even tell them not to come in. That's according to Los Angeles Times article headlined. Housekeepers is keep us and God knows go to work despite the flames. We're joined right now. By the journalist who reported the story Brittany Mahia. She joins us in Los Angeles. Welcome to democracy micro. Now tell us what you found in housekeepers and gardeners go to work. Despite the flames. Describe the situation for us. Yeah thanks so much I offer having me Yes when I got actually I got sent out to the fire around four in the morning and by the time I got to Brentwood It was mostly evacuated evacuated. There were maybe a few people left trying to see if they could sit tight but for the most part who was completely empty. And then I after I left a neighborhood where they're actually homes that burned earned. I saw a taxi coming in and dropping off a housekeeper Who was pretty convinced that her bosses were still there because they hadn't called her? They didn't tell her anything. And there's just ash coming down and so much smoke in this neighborhood and she's just ringing the bell and you know we quickly learned that they. Her boss was not home and had a vacuum up at three in the morning And so as we headed back as I gave her a ride and we headed back down we bumped into a significant number of other workers who had come. I'm in there was a construction worker. Who made it to his job site and saw the fire And then left another woman who was trying to get into the mandatory evacuation Shinn's own To try and go to work because she also hadn't heard from her boss A babysitter who was covering her face with the paper towel. The bus wouldn't take her into Pacific palisades and like she ended up being stuck kind of right around this area and so is a significant amount of workers who when we did get a hold of the bosses or when we when I was able to talk to them They just forgot to tell their workers not to come in. And we're the workers aware Britney that there was an evacuation order in place. Yes so that's the thing. No this woman that was dropped off by the taxi. I I honestly don't I'm not even sure how she got in I think she was just really desperate to go to work. That day. but yeah I mean. She had no idea like she was like. Oh there's a helicopter and as we spoke she observed. There was a helicopter and I was like. Yeah it's there's a lot of smoke there's ash because there's a fire it's pretty nearby and so she you know at that moment I think I could tell she was scared. Which you untold the owner? Like I'm scared it to be here by myself very quickly. Are you speak Spanish. You've been interviewing people in Spanish or all the orders going out in Spanish so people understand. Stand the dangers. Yeah that's the thing I don't know how targeted it was to the workers who come into this neighborhood. I don't know if the focus was mostly on the people who who live in Brentwood which I'm sure that would be mostly I feel like an English speaking And so I don't know how much it was targeted because when I spoke to the workers quite a few you've had no idea at least about where the vaccine was The a few weren't even aware that there was a fire Learned when they arrived so I don't know how much information they were getting To try and help you know. Help their decision not to come to work so speaking of people endanger. We WanNA turn to the more than four thousand firefighters working across Cross California to contain the blazes. At least seven hundred of them are California prisoners. While salaried firefighters earn an annual mean wage of like six seventy four thousand dollars a year plus benefits prisoners earned about a dollar an hour when fighting active fires. We go now to San Francisco where we're joined by Komodo former prisoner firefighter policy directorate. Young Women's Freedom Center in San Francisco. Emeka wilmore back with you again when we were in San Francisco going to the prison camps where the prisoners listeners. Are that fight. Fires that are very treasured by the free firefighters because they do so much of the most dangerous work. We're talking into again when you were imprisoned when you were incarcerated you were firefighter. Explain the situation right now. Well I think that Thanks for having me back again. It's nice to talk to you. I think that You know in California we certainly have a a deep concern for our folks that are out there on the front lines fighting fires while incarcerated as well as all the other firefighters that are battling blazes across California. I think that That the issues haven't changed much since we talked. Last time we've worked on a number of legislative. I just lead of efforts to try to kind of balance out the inequities of A labor force that works fighting fires on the inside and then comes home home and can't do the same but I think that there's a couple of narratives that really exist about this Four worth of incarcerated firefighters. And it's you know is this a A positive prison program. That's benefiting incarcerated. People or is is this Capitalists abuse of you know the most vulnerable population which we know our prisons are warehouse with Black and Brown folks so so I think that we are still at that same. That same point is the level of experience and danger they face and the experience they get when they get out of. Her person are not allowed to be firefighters so end up often. Serving the rich being private firefighters around understates. Yeah absolutely I think that there. It really doesn't make sense that you know we come home and there is this large barrier. We're not able to get emt licenses which is what we need to be working at municipal fire departments because there are really clear restrictions on You know being licensed when you have two or more Fanis on your record or you have Charge that's seven years or less so basically we we have folks that are really trained up and have the potential all to come home and be a really productive member of society and have a stable careers and that is not happening bening. We have folks that are coming home and unable to keep minimum wage jobs because of the barriers that exist very quickly. I want to ask Congress. Member Ro Khanna now this issue of the prisoners making like a dollar Is it a dollar a day and make or a dollar an hour. Well Uh the fire camps it's about a dollar an hour three cents zero discussion when we were there. The commanders of the camp said these people should be making more than us. We're talking about more than forty camps That this has been the the wage for decades. It's it's outrageous. And there is a discussion congress. Yesterday we actually posted on social media. our outrage at how the prisoners are being treated. There's there's no excuse in this country To abuse the prison population. Obviously there's incarceration but once someone's a prisoner they should be still well compensated For Basic Labor and certainly when they leave as you pointed out They should be able to reintegrate into society And have the value of the expertise and experience. They've gained and also on the issue of the fossil fuel economy before we get to impeachment. If you could make this very very brief I want to Syria. Where president trump has abandoned the Kurds but said that he is protecting the oilfields both the northern Syria? That's where soldiers will go and thousands. He is sending to Saudi Arabia to protect their oilfields. I appreciate your raising on this because this is a blatant violation of the Geneva Convention. We can't send troops to extract oil. You can't steal oil from other countries and in our presence in Syria it's important to realize it's still unconstitutional. There has been no congressional authorization so it was appalling to hear the president. Say that well. We want to make a mode of the young women's Freedom Center in San Francisco talking to us about the imprisoned firefighters and Brittany Mahia of the time speaking speaking to us from Los Angeles. This is democracy now but now we're going to turn woodrow CARNAC to the issue of impeachment so we end today's show in Washington where the houses holding a historic vote today to formalize the impeachment process against president trump the probe centers on whether trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to pressure Ukrainian cranium President Vladimir Zilenski to investigate trump's political rival Joe Biden and his son hunter. Who served on the board of Budi? Smallholdings is a Ukrainian energy company. Congressman Roque. You serve on the House Committee. On oversight and reform Talk about the significance thickens of today's vote. It's a very important vote. I Commend Speaker Pelosi. Because we're going to have virtually unanimous vote among the Democratic Caucus to affirm the impeachment inquiry into set forward the process. Going forward on how we're GONNA get articles impeachment and have a vote on impeachment. The important thing here to understand. Is that the evidence is overwhelming that the president was pressuring Zilenski into to investigating his political rival And it was not just one phone call. We have seen emerge is a pattern a conspiracy lasting months. It's to use the United States government to benefit Donald Trump's own reelection campaign well the Republicans of course have condemned the entire inquiry saying. It's undemocratic undemocratic so could you respond to that. And how do you think Republican members of the House are likely to vote. It hasn't been undemocratic in in fact the process has been followed in a very very fair way. The we have had a private setting for investigations and fact gathering in that setting Republicans have been able to be there. They've been able to ask questions. They Bay naval to examine witnesses The the reality is they're are the ones who have been obstructing the process. Now that the fact gathering is ending the hearings are going to be public and the president's lawyers are going to have due process rights. What is said what is so sad in this process as the attack on civil servants that is basically undermining Public Service. I mean there used to be a Stature to serving in government government that has done so many extraordinary things from innovation to Helping protect American Eric. Insecurity and the Republicans have launched a systematic attack on career civil servants to try to defend this president. Explain explain particularly early round the the around the testimony of women and the significance of who he is and what happened behind closed doors. If you know the screaming match that took place as the Republicans tried to use that moment to get at the identity of the whistle blower thinking thinking it was the whistle blower who he spoke to Kinmen is a patriot. I mean he is someone who is Won on the Purple Heart Who has served this country honorably and you have the president's allies Going on television accusing Kinmen of having having dual loyalties accusing him of conspiracy theories accusing him of betraying the interests of the United States. An all vitamin dead was comply as he was legally required to do with the congressional subpoena Congressional inquiry for testimony. And what he did is testify to the best of his knowledge. So the attack on people like Vin. Man He's traffic is suggesting has committed. Treason yes and and this is an attack on people who are not political. They're not people who are Being Working on trump or any campaign these are folks people who who are serving our country. And you've seen now. This is not just within man. This is what people at the State Department. It's with our intelligence officers it's with career civil servants it's Republicans are basically saying that they're not worthy. They're a dishonest there. Unpatriotic I ask you how when we're doing this. How our people have faith in government who why are the next great scientists? The next grade leader's GonNa Work WanNa work with the United States government. What a

California president United States President Trump Los Angeles Congressman Ro Khanna UN Amy Goodman Congress Santiago Chile Jakarta Ronald Reagan Presidential Lib Asia PG Los Angeles Times New York Syria Saudi Arabia
The Trouble With Being an Asian Guy on Tinder

Man Up

34:25 min | 1 year ago

The Trouble With Being an Asian Guy on Tinder

"Did you ever find yourself waiting for your news. Feed on facebook or twitter wishing you could just call someone up and ask what do I really need to pay attention to hear. Well what if you could. I'm Mary Harris the host of what next slates new Daily News podcast and every weekday morning. I'm going to be on Golfer you taking you inside one story going deep behind the headlines. What next is news? You're not GonNa get the scrolling through your phone to listen. Subscribe now on Apple podcasts spotify or wherever you listen so yeah I I'm sitting on the toilet. I'm swiping through and I come across this profile so I see I see the bio. You know it says something I love to go out. I want someone who can treat me. I don't know some generic stuff then my eye catches this phrase sorry not into Asians while <hes> and it's the first time that I've seen it on a dating site and I'm just thinking like I desperately want to D._M.. This person somehow and just be like wait I. I don't even want to go out with you. Can you just explain why Eddie Kim like a lot of us was really excited when he got him to online dating for him. It was just after a break up his close friends. Were showing off their matches telling him it was so easy so he downloaded tinder in bumble and existential crisis was the last thing that he expected to encounter. I'm aiming dismayed and you're listening to men up on this show. Every week. We tell honest stories about our lives and investigate where we get our ideas about what it means to be a man so this episode is brought to you by hymns so what's the summertime and if you're not comfortable with your thinning hair you might be breaking out a baseball hat for the day the beach or the ballpark or whatever whatever but that might not be the only option introducing hymns hymns is a one stop shop for hair loss skin care and sexual wellness ferment it connects you with with real doctors and medical great solutions trick your hair loss they offer well known generic equivalents to name brand prescriptions to help you keep your hair. 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The APPS had even him fixating on those stereotypes unit really face them in his dating life before that you know I'm someone who's basically fallen into relationships on a regular basis for the last decade of my life and <hes> when I first started dating online using apps like tinder and bumble I only he kind of knew what I had heard from friends and just from the hype <hes> on places I read error and social media all the jokes and it was kind of late to it so this was a couple years back and <hes> <hes> it was surprising how quickly I went from being actually focused on people and trying to see if I would vibe with them or if I liked them too just <music> getting to a place where I was sitting on the toilet wiping endlessly just trying to get my numbers up guys were telling me to do and the the other thing was how little response I was getting Eddie is Korean American and grew up in Hawaii. Most of his friends were of Asian descent so he didn't really stand out much it wasn't until he left the island that that started to change so I think for much of my adolescence I never really thought about the racial elements of dating and relationships and just attraction and going to school going to college at the University of Southern California which is a very different demographic than Honolulu Hawaii that was an eye opening experience and yet even as I dated in college didn't really think about it you too much you know I I I was fairly diverse in the women that I ended up going out with or just hanging out with but online on a platform like tinder that completely changed. That's what inspired me I guess to to write about it for mel magazine and to try and talk to other guys other men of color who had sort of witnessed this this creeping sensation that <hes> it's not just my bio. It's not just my photos but it's my race. I have to imagine that transitioning from <hes> <hes> dating I._R._l.. To online might have been jarring. I blow your expectations before you downloaded the APP well so one thing yeah I knew was that some of my gay friends gay male friends had had told me that on places like grinder the phrase no funds no Asians. It was very very common to come across. That's explicit yeah you know in the straight community I I had not really heard that and I guess I hadn't really been asking my friends about you know they were telling me tender rebound Boyd Super Easy. They were GONNA end up talking to so many different women. You know you're fairly attractive guy not to pat myself on the back but you know I I had a little bit of hype about. I had add some ego about it right and I always kind of felt that if I could be in a room with someone it doesn't have to be romantic but that I could charm them and I could do oh good job connecting with that person so online that got completely subverted. I thought at least the rejections would come after you know sending texts back and forth <music> not even not even matching not even matching and so it's hard to hear some of your other close friends being like oh I got this date or I got this match or like going through their our APP and you know kind of joking around but at the same time feeling super self conscious because you know the logical place to start again is like is it is my bio super lame uh-huh. Why are these photos just junk? Do I not look cute in them. Maybe that's it so I took new photos. No no change you know <hes> and that's when I started reading on unread it these complaints that guys had especially Asian American guys of of what it felt lights feel quote unquote ignored and to be honest like the data from places like match dot com. I believe that a survey the data shows that it's true that there is discriminatory feelings <hes> especially especially from white even black woman toward Asian Asian men rank lower than almost all other demographics in terms of attraction except from Asian Asian woman so I was starting to learn that the numbers did bear out to sort of quiet feeling I had inside about you know what is it about me. That's not unattractive yeah. So how do you imagine people were perceiving you when they came up to your picture in your profile on these dating apps what what stereotypes types do you think that they were projecting onto you well. I think it's sort of the typical stereotypes around Asian men that we've seen portrayed trade and pop culture mostly so that we're kind of effeminate or not really quote unquote traditionally masculine and I think that's partly just because of the waist stories are told but it's also an ingrained sense of otherness and I think it really comes down to that feeling of of not knowing and and and again you know. Is it the small Dick Thing. I don't know that that's explicitly what people think about when they think of an Asian guy or come across an Asian guys dating profile but I also don't. I don't think that's not in their mind either. Yeah I mean it's really prevalent in our culture right there. It's like a constant. It's one of those running jokes that that's been existing in our society for generations Were <HES> or even a couple years ago with a movie like the hangover two or there's an entire bit about <hes> <hes> Mister Chow. I think his dick being so small. It looks like a mushroom like a hidden mushroom what does that we don't know as a worm mushroom yes you talkie. Monkey tasted the monkey tries to eat it because it looks like a mushroom like so it's like the comedy hasn't really changed in a lot of ways which is why I think it's important that movies like crazy rich Asians or this new one. That's out the farewell that these other more sincere expressions of Asian culture her coming out into the mainstream yeah. I mean the way that because I'm a Muslim American Air American the way that I've experienced stereotypes like I feel like the bigger impact that I've had to deal with this. How it's impacted me? Write my <unk> own self worth my my self image and whenever those stereotypes get projected onto me they sort of reinforced my worst insecurities. I wonder I wonder if you can relate to that because especially when it comes to something like Dick size. This is something that I think every guy is insecure about i. I wonder how that might be different for Asian men 'cause they're. They're not only experiencing this very natural insecurity about how adequate they are but also they have to deal with these stereotypes and all of these jokes and media. I think for for Asian guys in particular. It's a self doubt that happens even as you're meeting someone even as you're just starting to get to know someone in a romantic setting <hes> even the clothes haven't come off yet. It's that feeling of do they already assume assume that I have a small Dick because when you talk to people the jokes seemed to come out so easily and they it seems to be so not a big deal for some people to joke about that and I think it's unhealthy to fixate on stuff like that and I've tried in my own life to accept things that you know I can't control what people assume about me but it is this nagging doubt in certain situations like on a place like tender or bumble or another dating site where that seems to flare up and I think almost as important as the root of that stereotype is how we as men deal with that emotional sort of feedback back that we give ourselves. I feel like this must have affected your confidence right because especially when I was dating APPS and I wasn't getting a lot of matches either I also wondered at first if there was something wrong with me. <hes> you know the the worry that people were relying on stereotypes go types to figure me out kind of came second right yeah and that's kind of the reason why I stopped definitely when I I felt this feeling that you're describing I doubled well down on online dating. I was a you know what if it's not this platform and it's going to go on a bunch of others like this can't be yes always like kind of battling against it and I think over time I I just learned the world is not fair on a platform like tinder. There was a point where I was so miserable that I just needed to to change and that's what led me to delete elite online dating apps and I think there's been a lot of essays written about the freedom that comes from eliminating that option because of how toxic it can be for not just men but also women <hes> and that helped an honestly logoff is not always relevant advice but in this case it helped for me and I knew it was the right path for me because men it's just a bummer to spend to put energy and time into this this representation of yourself and not feel respected at all for it <hes> well I mean it sounds like you learned a lot of lessons both about yourself in and how you racine yeah and what what really got me thinking about the future. Was You know now I am in a place where I'm happy now but you go on an Asian American male sub read it for instance right and there's so much bitterness about this it's so much bitterness and it even extends to even hating Asian women for dating white guys you know that's a toxic theme. Come up on on certain forms online because Asian guys feel that pressure and they translate that pressure into anger <hes> and you know twenty nineteen is a great year for righteous anger and a lot of the arts of our life you know but I think that this type of righteous anger <hes> from men from a community from racial community it does more to divide and too slow progress than it does to to help and I think you know certain elements of representation like I'm starting to report on like Asian American porn companies that that really fetish is like Asian male white woman porn and things like that. I think representation is important but I also think having an agenda where you're just like trying trying to reverse fetish is like I don't know what the impacts of that will be culturally. I don't think I don't know if it'll make Asian men more insular and more upset about the conditions of the world or make them more inquisitive and more open minded about like how they can branch out mm-hmm if you drink much tea as I._T.. Than you know there's nothing like enjoying during the delicious homebrew taste of gold peak real not to give you that comforting home feeling and when I think about what that comforting hold feeling is for me it's that AH philosophy and my mom used to make to wake me up. Give me out of bed. Gold peak has something for everyone and every occasion they're fourteen different flavors including sweet tea not raspberry tea lemon tea and a lot more. 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That's comfy but not too thick with many colors colors patterns lengths and styles Baba's looks great in the gym at the office or when you're out on the town on this are what feet daydream about and for every bombers purchase just you make Bombay's donate a pair to someone in need by your Bomba's at Bomba's dot com slash men up today and get twenty percents off your first purchase. That's B. Uh-huh M._v._S._A.. A._S. dot com slash men up for twenty percent off Bombay Dot com slash man up is a sounds like this topic is really hard to discuss because I don't know how open other people are about these kinds of have experiences and this feeling of feeling down in less than an inadequate. I wonder how you're able to pull yourself out of fat. That's a hard question because I think in the moment it doesn't really feel like progress. When you're miserable and questioning questioning I think I just embraced that and the questioning element of it more and more rather than think this is so unjust and I need a solution to this? I think seeing a therapist helped I mean I When you're able to find the path in this bike we're talking about romance that gives you contentment so I was really really lucky to start to slip into something meaningful thankful into a meaningful relationship by me as these <hes> feelings were building up and frustrating me so I was able to work it through this this new thing where I wanted to be the best of myself and the best of myself? Is You know not frantically worrying about my Dick. It is not you know worrying about assumptions is all the time and rather being in the moment with that person all these things that we enjoy about relationships leaning into that finally in small ways and then bigger ways it helped me get out of it and helped me to reflect more healthily rather than be bitter about it but it's really hard man. I'm like trying not to make the sound too easy because it wasn't easy. How's confused as hell? I was probably just bouncing off the walls at a certain point just being venting to my friends like Dan. It can't get into matches on tender. What's wrong with me? You didn't take the flattering photo of me. My Chen looks weird. Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and I can imagine being around people who have no problem at all getting downs of matches tonight yeah didn't help it didn't help but I also knew that you know if I were to get angrily envious of their experience that that would set me back back to right so I'm glad that you know at age twenty five twenty six hours emotionally mature enough to understand like what are bad behaviors is mentally and that was a huge benefit. I'M NOT GONNA lie like that was not something I had when I was seventeen. That's not something I had even when I was twenty Kony two yeah so yeah. I think that it's really hard for especially you know teenagers who are trying to figure that out <hes> and and men of color you know that that's a tough time depending on where in the country you live in the community around you. A lot of people feel isolated right <hes> so you I don't think I was raised to be very emotionally literate or to to do emotional labor in ways other than yelling or punching a wall when got mad yeah <hes> and I think a lot of guys are at that point where that sort of very traditional masculinity where you're stoic or you're angry like that's that still so common and I experienced it and now I finally feel like I'm kind of getting out of the woods of that and it's opening my <music> is to how many more things can be inquisitive about and learn from rather than either deny be stoic and not worry about it or be angry about got it and I think those two modes of being as a man regardless of of what background culture you come from. It's like really ingrained. uh-huh one big irony is growing up you know when you're in Hawaii there are there are stereotypes not about Asians but about each Asian culture whether that's Filipinos Chinese he's or her. Koreans and Koreans are known for their temper. That's the Cliche we we're you know volcanic when we when we get mad so it's it's weird to to have that stereotype put on me for for much of my life and then you know to be viewed as kind of docile or just like you know skinny history Asian kid in the U._S.. Or on the mainland I mean gene and have the stereotype be that of the traditionally sort of like on masculine Asian male. It's it's it's kind of a case so I like like you also started the the whole tinder thing late I was sort of like a monogamous street for for so much of my life where online dating when did come out just wasn't interesting to me <hes> and would eventually when I did like start a profile just for fun. <hes> you know just like see see what's on there because it's kind of I don't know I was curious. I I started to recognize my own by sees towards other people. Oh Yeah Yeah <hes> so when I was scrolling skirl past someone who I would see his like a Muslim woman and I'm Muslim right and I my instinct would be swipe left like the swipe no because I was so I felt a little bit of shame and kind of having that religious connection I don. I don't know that person I don't haven't had haven't even exchanged words with this person but I'll still projecting this idea of the the religious just Muslim the person who takes their religion very seriously onto them right and after reading your pieces I felt that that wasn't fair and I'm starting waiting to wonder how conscious people are of those biopsies that they might hold and what's a good way to make them aware of those biases. I think think people's biopsies we're seeing it certainly in the political world right now right where people are confronting their biopsies <hes> and often not doing a great job of that and I think sex is even more charged because it's so intimate it's so personal and a lot of the feedback honestly hate mail that I got for that sexual racism article wishes like I'm not a bigot because I prefer a certain kind of person <hes> just like all right. That's that's cool. No I'm not I'm not saying you're big per se but yeah for for myself <hes> LE- let's look at me. I mean when I was going to U._S._C.. If I'm being totally honest I probably started to exotic size like blonde white woman and that was that was a demographic that wasn't as prevalent in my school in Honolulu Lou generally in Hawaii <hes> it's not the dominant archetype and here I am in southern California on a campus full of white women like an my attraction toward that that was a bias in of itself and I didn't know I didn't acknowledge it during college I think starting knowledge it afterward <hes> when I started seeing a therapist when I started you know being a little bit more introspective about why I prefer the things I do and what that says about me and that's the process that got a lot of guys would benefit from only because it's just investigating blind spots right yeah and I think if you can investigate all sorts of blind spots in your life you you become a more confident well rounded person even if it is insecurities that you're looking into yeah so yeah I mean in your case. Do you think it was also also because for me I almost had an aversion to being that like another Asian guy with an Asian girl <hes> I there was something about that that image that very cliquey thing that I saw often in college <hes> within that community that I didn't like I wanted to quote unquote it diversify. I guess kind of kind of a weird way to put it but I did that factor into your dating life at all at any point or was it really about the insecurity about religion and kind of tackling with someone from your faith. Yeah I mean a constant fixture in my life was this desire to be a better Muslim right the my ideas of how to practice my religion or very clearly prescribed and then if I wasn't fulfilling all of the requirements one of them being not dating or sexually interacting with anyone of the opposite sex or the same sex for that that matter than than I wasn't fulfilling that preconceived idea of hummus them was and so I didn't want to advertise I didn't want to acknowledge that and one of the ways that I did that was avoiding relationship or contact with Muslim women and I just I was thinking about that because because of how you were describing people projecting these very kinda messed up stereotypes onto people and even though I've had to reconcile stereotypes used against me <hes> as a Muslim man people kinda see us as these overly aggressive possessive culturally inept men that I almost felt like I I'm not innocent like I've done. I've done something I've done the same to Muslim women or you know so almost made me curious <hes> but I'm also really interested in what you just said about white women Right the the most ideal version of your partner rights where where did those ideas come from and I wonder if any of it it's connected to your own insecurities authorities towards how you may be perceived other Asian men specifically with other Asian woman yeah <hes> I think starting with me I even go back to you know as a rebellious teenager typewriter cliche right there <hes> and my parents <hes> were very kinds of me looking back at the whole process but I do think about moments when my mom would sit down and be like <hes> it would be great if you could marry a nice Korean girl someone we can bring into the family because you know my parents are assimilated but you know their first language is still Korean during which is not super proficient even even now after a couple of decades and that was kind of <hes> you know it was said with the wink I I didn't grow up with parents who are really strict about you know bring home a Korean girl but it was a it was almost like this repeated joke that existed throughout my teenage years <hes> and even you know credits my parents even they had to come around. I I I've never dated occur in women and they came around <hes> to to my partners just by understanding it's about what makes me him happy and fulfilled not about what we expect as part of our family but even something like that and my running from that demand for my parents at a young age toward whiteness. Is that something that's that's actually happened is it because of you know going to U._S._C. and being surrounded by these idealized idealized women like you look at the football teams song girls I mean it's just a cliche ingrained in the culture. So I think of it enters my adolescence I think of of it in terms of maturity in my late teens into my twenties and yeah I just feel like when you look at sex stars and sort of the most beautiful women that make people magazine's list and things like that it is about whiteness you see it repeated over and over again and I think that's subconscious stimulus. Just from culture is enough to make anyone sort of leered to it and I don't mean to make it sound like a bad thing but I think it can be a bad thing. If we don't think about why we ended up with the people that we ended up with <hes> and for me I am you know in a great relationship with a partner who is white white who is blonde but she is so open minded and so willing to have these conversations with me that it makes the whole thing just more fulfilling as opposed to me being suspicious about you know my reasons or the cultural forces that brought me and he's lucky lucky that he realized the effect that online dating was having on him and so he was able to protect themselves from many men like the ones he mentioned on the sub reddit where some Asian men go advent instead transfer that satisfaction onto others especially women but Eddie's experience swiping but not being swiped was making him see himself with less worth he was being programmed in a similar way to how users who posted no Asia's or program themselves with comedy important. We're all trained in to see each other in a particular way me you and Eddie to it's literally impossible to avoid and acknowledging that we have that. Lens is just the first step in seeing each other for who we really are. Nobody's immune but accepting it as the only way to keep that lynch from distorting how we really see each other so we haven't done this in a while but I want to take a quick second share some voicemails that we've gone from some listeners. This one is from a chef who had this to say after listening to our episode titled. Chefs don't have to be jerks short and brief. I run into cooking at a older age. I six years of experience in the kitchen and I think what really resonated with me about your podcast was Kenji and other other other folks go into the business <music> at a young age and they haven't learned you know the basic life skills it takes to deal with problems deal with stress and all the things things come along with being in the kitchen which is very similar to life if you don't know how to deal with it you just lash out in anger and use basic instinct to get your idea across but I think being being my age when it went into cooking. I was able to learn those lessons beforehand so when I now that the amnesty chef and and I'm working with folks I use that to my advantage. I try to figure out you know why they're doing something that way. I know his approach them in a way. That's going to help them and not hurt them. <hes> you know. I really wished I asked this question like our chefs who lash out playing out there childish instincts. I mean I really to that a lot. So at least when I was growing up fear was the cheapest way to get respect so you know if you're someone who's immature and you walk into into a kitchen and the chefs freaking out and he's using that to earn the respect of their employees in our make sense that if you were being hazed in that way if you were to become a chef chef down the line you'd hate your employees back making this perpetual cycle of assholes forever and ever anyways. I appreciate the voicemail and help you keep tuning tuning in and drop us another note some time and here's one more voicemail this one from a listener responding to our episode titled and Intervention Amen. This is Kevin from Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. I wanted to share with you a comment on something that surprised me about your conversation with them. Yeah <hes> in the midst of all the I self examination is soul-searching own behavior. You didn't <hes> examine it from the angle of the teachings of Islam this was surprising to me because it's clear these so positive Muslim and because you have referenced your conversation with Cimarron thing he is a person who was explicitly licitly uses his own spiritual tradition the teachings there to find a way to constructively engage with hatred so <hes>. Please don't take this. It's a criticism. I know you had a lot going on sort out and obviously your relationship with your religion is deeply personal but I was Kinda surprised it. Didn't you come up all right then. Yeah Kevin. You're you're crazy spot on for real and for the people who didn't get a chance to listen to it. You're talking about China Deka La.. It's something that similar Jeet Singh described as always aspiring to optimism right and that's what helped him confront bigotry had on so my faith did cross lost my mind and it's something that I wished that I brought up in that episode and so for me my inspiration in wanting to reexamine myself and try to make myself better was Islam is specifically. This idea of jihad NEF's right the struggle against yourself. It's also called the greater g head. It's meant to allow Muslims comes to fight the evil and the anger and the bad morality within themselves that could be one of the hardest things that we do in this life <hes> but at the same time it could be one of the most rewarding thing things so when my producer pointed that out that I might have put my family endanger by an act tough that's the thing I had to reckon with and try to shake loose from inside of me and and work through that yeah thank you for bringing that up that's really amazing spot on for real so quick shouts out to everyone who's been leaving voicemails sales and sending US e-mails and if you haven't sent us anything yet we'd love to hear from you to goth thoughts on this week's episode or maybe have an idea of what to talk about next. Do leave us a message at eight. Oh five six two six eight seven zero seven. That's eight. Oh five men up oh seven or email us at man up at slate dot com. If you like this episode please consider supporting the kid and leave a review and apple podcasts or wherever you're listening right now not only do we appreciate it. It also helps other people find the show man up is hosted and written by me. Amos made our producers Daniel Hewitt in Cameron druce are executive producers Jeffrey bloomer and low and Loo Gabriel Roth is editorial director of podcasts and June. Thomas is a senior manager producer of sleep podcasts. Make sure you're subscribed because we'll be back next week with more Jermaine up.

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The iron Sheik

Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard

1:12:36 hr | 10 months ago

The iron Sheik

"Ban Tale as not a real. There's no box of gaming. The deal rumored there I was there nice income but Hey Thompson you're listening will merce burchard. I what's going on. Man How are you just having the happiest Leaguers how's everything down at the CON Radison. Maybe if you've been able to they go through the entire compound and check everything with all of your different servants and stuff. Yeah we had a big week here. We rang in the the New Year with a lot of cheer and Alabama when they're ballgame and auburn loss there so it was It was a good week here at the Conrad. How's everything in Connecticut etiquette cold cold? We had a little dusting of snow by God. Not the good kind of dusting but It's nice and cold but it's it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood if you will well speaking of snow covering the Iron Sheik today to be bubba excited title about this Now you're GonNa have to help me though. Because I'm a hillbilly from a lamb. Say what was the iron shakes. Real Dame Costlo buzzy now now if you were to were to listen to One of the other the guys you do a podcast with they for some reason thought that his name was Cosgrove Ole Cosgrove now Zane was Castro. That's his real name calling 'cause But Not Cosgrove yeah well. Cosgrove was born March. Fifteenth Nineteen Forties in Toronto Ran. You're very very humble. Oh I had very little money. No running water When he was a kid he I losses and Iranian Olympic gold medalist and essentially he wants to become a great amateur wrestler himself and he does and I guess amateur wrestling. It's pretty big over in Iran. In fact when Kurt Angle won his gold medal he defeated Iranian on the way there to be brawny cooked Hank I'm good. He's not a bit my opinion champion. He had the judge said I say a fuck she on hit Lanta to be the Olympic. Bullshit I slit skirt dangle humble. Am I love that. You always use for to be for. Oh Him Maybe worked as a bodyguard for several years and he's excelling an amateur wrestling to the point that even makes the Greco Roman wrestling team represents represents Iran in the sixty summer Olympics in Mexico City. And after the Olympics he moved to the United States comes assistant coach onto US Olympic squads allies in the seventies and seventy one. He's the amateur Athletic Union greco-roman wrestling champion and gold medalists at one hundred and eighty five pounds. It's later becomes an assistant coach. The team for the seventy two games in Munich. There's a lot going on here and he's right in the middle of all of it You ever had a conversation with Sheikh at the seventy two Olympics. Oh my God ah Yes. It was crazy when you look back in the early days of Khusro Fuzzier the Iron Sheik. He was actually he. It was such a bad ass in country of Iran that he was a bodyguard for the Shah of Iran. And it it. It was a very precarious position than the way the cows got out of it was because of his ability because of his athleticism in that he was going to represent Iran in the Olympics and of course in the nineteen seventy two Olympics. They guerrillas overtook one of the compounds compounds. And and I remember as a kid you gotta remember Nineteen seventy-two think eight years old or nine years old and you you don't just see what you see on. TV inherits you hear on TV and they kept talking about the guerrillas the that that had taken over the Olympic Village and they would talk about how the thing would have cameras on. We didn't have twenty four hour. News in nineteen seventy two but they had cameras out there like one of these guys would poke their head out whenever the wearing like big ski masks the Shit and I was thinking. Oh my God you know they're guerrillas wearing masks. I thought it was a they. They hit actually bid taken over by actual guerrillas suit. Guerrillas shoot grills grills like a thought monsoons Aaron focusing stretching everybody shit but yeah 'cause was right in the middle of all that shit and it was a pretty scary time for everyone that was involved. Those Munich Olympics in Qasr made his way out to the other side and in his dream was to come to America. The United States of America that I love for to be well and he follows up on that dream after the Olympics here He's invited to become a pro wrestler by ver- Ganja obviously very sees a big upside odd guy with this sort of background legitimate reputation. So Gessen Verne's I guess infamous training camp ironically the same camp as the nature boy rick flair so world champions are coming out of this class After he graduates training he starts working Verne's Awa and he eventually becomes a trainer at Burns camp himself himself. He helped train guys like steamboat. And Greg Ganja and Jim Ryan Zell and it's kind of amazing to think but because of his success S. in the Olympics he starts his career as a baby face but then quickly turned heel and sort of patterns some of his look after the original she can can even changes. His appearance drastically shaves his head. baldy grows the mustache. He starts wearing the the curly hugh toes on his boots and He's wrestling under the name. The Great Hussein Arab When he I remember seeing him as a pro wrestler is this somebody you saw a L. as a kid on TV or at the shows in? Houston God I saw him. Probably the first time. Nineteen seventy three nineteen seventy four. Orm as he he worked as Ali. Azeri We came to Dallas and he came to Dallas a work territory there and would come to Houston tremendous amateur background. The only thing was that he was small much smaller than everyone alson. You didn't have the birther or the thickness city. He later acquired but he worked his Ali. Zero very bland and very He was a shooter he. He was just a straight forward wrestler but not locked color and nothing really was hard to understand stand and he couldn't cut a promo but burn light. The shooter aspect of it that you know this guy was the real deal and probably kill anybody in the arena if he chose to and Paul Bosch and in Texas also like that but that was about as far as you could go with him burn actually made him a referee for a period of time just because he was he was so small. That it's kind of funny when you think back in that time where great ganja was being featured in Greg smaller than 'cause but that's just the way it was and so I think as Ali Azeri wasn't setting the world world on fire in adopted the the Great Hossain which was going to evolve into the ayatollah later Baby and he did it mid Atlantic and he just completely changed everything up in shave. The head grew the Mustache Ashland handlebar moustache and indeed the shaky Pu Gimmick and from from there he came back to Texas and He came back into work for for the Dallas Office. And what have you and this had to be. Nineteen seventy eight ISH. Maybe maybe maybe nineteen seventy nine in that area. But this was also during the time that my brother Tom was really you know getting serious about training and taking every opportunity that he could get in the ring with anybody anybody that train him in. Paul Bausch asked Khusro He had another big football player bodybuilder. That thought he wanted to be in the business. Appall sent Tom and the body the builder to the building early one night and ask house would you get in the ring and just roll around with these guys. See if there's anything there the the other guy whether it was football player bodybuilder. Whatever he didn't last like he didn't he didn't even last thirty minutes in the rain with cows but Tom Did you know Tom took his ass with. But it got stretched and the best story is is when they went to lock up in in a Colorado tie-up couch showed them how to do one time so okay now with locker and Tom Locked up. Exactly the opposite way. cosmologists shown him in. That was the beginning of Tom's cauliflower ears because caused knocked the living shit out of him and explain to him on certain you exactly as S.. I show you a Bubba your fucking going like this fucking go like this. You'll go like that for shaky baby and those tough lesson but Tom came back in. That was those old timers in the day. That's what they look for. If you came back then they would take the time time to to train. You take the next step and it was caused. Do Big business for us at that time you know it was you still amid Carter. Because promos weren't that good and there was a situation in Fort Worth where the end of the night causes in the dressing room taking a shower. Anna Fan wandered into the dressing room and the young man was mentally challenged and special and he didn't he didn't understand he just saw one of his wrestling heroes on the shower and and cosby. He'll when after Catholic took chipotle and this kid scared to death runs out and it was a a legal battle and a whole big lawsuit. That just kind of went away because well Castro went away and next thing. You know you're hearing about this guy. The Iron Sheik weaken in New York and people were talking. People are buzzing. Jake fucked up. He didn't he just came out and yelled yelled the kid in scared the kid but when the kid came out you know he didn't know exactly what had happened is trying hi to explain To his parents what had happened into them. They're hearing that. He came out of the shower and attack the kid which he didn't do he just scared. The kid chase the kid out of the dressing room and the kid who's just scared to death so he was a crazy deal but one that Being in the United States fresh from Iran Lhasa from Iran. It's still only about five six years ears and she didn't WanNa do anything that will jeopardize him Not being able to stay in the United States armed versus Ronald Time out right now to talk talk about something pretty important You know here's the question for you you know if you're sleeping eight hours and I check your eating a good diet. Check your exercising in pretty regularly at least in the New Year Jack. Well if you're doing basically everything right to ensure you have a long life isn't a Tom. You make sure your financially rewarded for your your commitment to a healthy lifestyle. Here's what we're talking about. Healthcare Hugh exhale. 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It's easy and now is the time to be thinking about the future. You're checking out. HOW ACCU DOT DOT com forward slash? Russell here's an interesting backstory. Before he gets to the because as you mentioned you know he was working the territory. So you know. He'd bounce around mid South mid Atlantic and captures the mid Atlantic title from Jim Brown sale goes to Georgia Works Georgia Championship inchape wrestling and Get the national. TV title. With Ron Garvin and has some matches with dusty Rhodes Dick Murdoch and Tommy rich even makes a tour of Japan and Russell's Gnocchi I seventy nine he finally lands in the W.. WWF Any wins the first ever battle royal tale the Madison Square Garden which earns him a title shot. Later in the show against Bob Back Lund lots of greats you know. Are there that night in this one gorilla monsoon Bernstein a ski haystacks. Calhoun Nicole Volkov. St Jones Johnny Rods. Tito Santana Johnny Jerry Valiant Ryan DB OSCE lots of names you would recognize even here seventy nine of the World Rowe World Wide Wrestling Federation. Of course we know backlands is going to get the win but I get plenty of time in this title shot thirty minutes and forty seconds. as I'll Vano is has and he's substituting for Freddie Blassie here he's going to Accompany Sheikh to ringside as he's leaving ringside he goes up. Vincent ran and ran. Three was drinking Alabama's face so pretty notable night at the garden here and seventy any non and he would stick around and then ultimately leave and eighty but on his way there you know he would have feuds with Reynosa Martino. Who's obviously the tippy top guy? Chief Jay strongbow grow and he finally comes back in eighty three after bouncing around the territories and early eighties and he's going to Quickly Challenge Ball back on. Who still the world champion Apia? And now it's a rematch and Bob Would I take on the iron sheik in the sheiks. Persian Club challenge on the December twenty the fourth episode of All American wrestling Tell everybody about the person club challenge while this was unique and I mean it really was a big part of sheikhs character character. It was in the Persian clubs. Were these workout clubs. Had a they had a handle but they down now at the end they were much wider much heavier. I don't think each each club was out. Maybe fifty pounds and you had to get him up to hold them up straight just in and of of self. That was very difficult yet. Have some incredible strength to do that. But then you would take the clubs then you pass over your head. You're right with your right hand while holding the other one in your left bring a background and then do the same with the left and he would do this in succession session. The the stamina skill. It's it's a skill first of all you do have to have tremendous straits to even get get the damn clubs up but then you have to. It's technique in if you know the technique you could do it in. You can do it for a while if you know the technique but most people it's it's very it's an awkward exercise and and it's not something that was practiced of especially in in the United States at that time so chic used to bring these clubs and he would challenge members of the audience. If you could come in and you could do sheiks clubs That is long as you do. She cast do it twice as long. Nobody could nobody could do it. I mean and every once in a while you get a ringer who would go in and maybe be able to do it for a couple of minutes. You'll get the hang of it and do it and she could still blow them out of the water and in do it longer. He just was in that kind of shape. He was that kind of extraordinary athlete. So that was you wanna shake these shaky slayings things in. It always killed me because I don't know whatever happened to his clubs but in later years he had some metal ones made with just waited. Did the end. He could still do. He could probably do it today. A- BENCA abby doesn't get around very well but I bet you she could still do the clubs to this day and it was. It was just one of those really cool gimmicks that set chic apart from everyone else in in made him a little bit different. We should mention that during the challenge. Of course you know what the statler Sheikh is GonNa do is going to attack Backlash from behind and injured his neck going into the world title match two days later. So on December twenty six nine hundred eighty three at MSG the iron sheik would defeat by back Lynn to to win the WWF world title as you may remember from the story chic but the camel clutch on back lane but back doesn't submit instead his manager Arnie Arne Scotland throws the towel in for the championship and with this within the iron sheik became the first and only Iranian world champion and wwe history history. So big moment And obviously we're GONNA play off of that in Nineteen ninety-four which we've talked about before when backlands wrestling Bret Hart in a submission match for the world title. You weren't there at the top but this had to be on everybody's radar back on had been the champ forever and a day anytime. The title changed Tanzania. It was a big deal was not hell. Yeah and this was a specially a big deal. Because I don't think anyone was looking at the chic to be the guy during this time Bob had had a hell of Iran is the WW. I think it was. WWF At that point Champion so for Sheikh to come in and win that pretty quickly was a big feather in she keep who's cap and he stepped right into it back Lynn. It was time for the back. Linear kind of moved to the side as Hulkamania was running wild and starting to take over big time. Yeah clearly put that together. We're going to be a transitional champion here a month later January. Twenty Third Nineteen eighty-four Madison Square Garden. She is supposed to have a rematch with Bob Backlash. But instead Bob is replaced by Hulk Hogan and of course whole pins chic to win the world title in wrestling thing is forever changed This is the beginning of Hulkamania. But what everybody wants to know now and you weren't there but you know the players aren't chic has come out and said the Verne Ganja offered him one hundred thousand dollars to shoot on Hulk and break his leg during that match and then bring the WWF world title to the Awa with him as you may remember the iron sheik. Got His start in wrestling with Verne. Ganja Hulkamania actually started in vern. Gone Awa W. A.. And now both the chic and Hulk Hogan have been recruited to the WWF. Vincent ran sovereign tried to call in favor allegedly sadly. When did you hear the story? And what do you make of it. Well I think. The story made the rounds big time at that time so it it was one of those where there was smoke. There was probably fire. I've heard the story directly from the chic and she delon young if he was going in and everyone knew that hulk was going to be. The guy firm was pissed off that hulk had left the AWA gone to the evil New York. Vince McMahon motherfucker so burn was upset and and the see. I don't know whether it actually happened or not. The Legend has it. That sheik was offered a lot of money to humiliate and break racal legs. If he wanted to break folks leg one much hope was going to be able to do about it. And tell you that as well but Sheikh AAC went to Vince beforehand and said you so good to the shake your head you make a champion beat Jeb Ronnie Bob Back Leonard. I know break his neck. I Know Break Hull Cook. It's leg. I put Jeep Baroni Audie of for love of you and you take Care Ashiq. And that's out story goes invents wants you know is even told me the story about she coming to him before in Sheikh wandering I mean are Vince wondering is Sheikh telling me this now to hold hold me up right and say okay. I'll put him over but a need x amount of money and she didn't do that she just told him because I just I just want you to know before I go in the ring yes I was approached yes. I was offered money but I am not going to do it. I'm going to go out do my job Bob. And I'M GONNA put Hogan over ship. Buruni a thought him aren't Bruce. Let's take our last time out right now to talk about Out Your New Year's resolutions to save money and get out of debt. I can make with happened right now and save with Conrad Dot Com. I know what you're thinking. I've checked into this before four. I'm not sure if it makes sense. Stop that stinking thinking and just get a quote right now and save with Conrad Dot Com. I've routinely helped our podcast listeners. Say Five six seven even eight hundred bucks a month. He wants Yo this that it's up to you how to pay it back. Why would you not want to make sure that you had the lowest rate and the greatest tax deduction and oh by the way so you paid the least amount of interest? I'm not just talking about rate. I'm talking about total interest. Paid and I'm talking specifically. If you're an authority your loan you're overpaying hang your single biggest bill and you may not even realize it want to do something scary. Take your monthly house payment. You know what it is by heart punched in a calculator times. Three eight hundred and sixty. That is how much you're paying for your house. And when you see that big scary number go right to save with Conrad Dot Com. I'm GONNA show you how to pay less for your house. I'm GONNA show you how to pay your house off faster. I'm GONNA show you how to do it with cheaper monthly payments the sentence some Papa Szanto nonsense Voodoo. No no these are just math techniques developed that I know work that will save you money. If you're serious about getting in debt you have got to have a plan to pay your house off. Nobody talks about that anymore but the reality is the reason student. Loan debt is on the rise is because MOMS and dads aren't paying their houses off their starting over with a new thirty year loan over and over and over and the result is kids get saddled with student loan debt. And how many people do we all know in real life who were working past the age of sixty fifty to sixty five. Let me assure you they're probably not doing that to make their lexus payment because they still have a mortgage payment make a plan to get out of debt faster and do it with cheaper monthly payments. Spend ten minutes with me right now. And I'm telling you won't regretted it all happens at save with Conrad Dot Com. It's no cost. No obligation even credit scores in the five hundred will be approved. And if we can't save you money we will waste your time but oh by the way has this stars no house payments for two months. If you haven't already you don't have to make your January or February payment. You're done until mark even though it's against him. That feels like a move. Vince McMahon would at least respect like. Hey we're trying to win at whatever cost. Yeah it is but also there's a sense of the professionalism and in the old days van the old timers that were tough and and knew their way around I guess that maybe they could get away with it to a point But there's always somebody else tougher on the other side somewhere down the you know you're you gotta get your ass kicked in. You gotta get taken out one way or another and it was just better to be professional if you didn't WanNa do it then and thought figure something else out. But that wasn't the case and She just wanted to clear the air to let everyone know that He he was not there to hurt all news there to do business and and make this as big as he possibly could again. I know you weren't there. They do want to ask about the way. The title change happens. was done this way. Because you weren't exactly sure how committed to the Hulk Hogan Movement you could be and you didn't want to hurt by back on just in case. Is it more of a back on being old school and he didn't WanNa put over this new style performer. He maybe had more respect for the old school. Background of the Iron Sheik's amateur background. Or why not Waga about it. This way that just makes sense not split the audience and an HSA bigger win. It's a bigger win for hull. Cogan in in all American Hulkamania what have you. American-made beat the evil iron sheik from Iran. So that that's why it was done so that it would via a he'll victory and halt beating Bob. Back Land Bob Stills very popular and there's going to be a big chunk of the audiences can say Tokugawa then right. Well I just ask because it does feel like man. He's out of here fairly quickly I I think it's his last match in August of eighty four. You know once once Hogan's the champ. It feels like back on his yesterday's news and almost the same can be said about the iron sheik. Of course he's going to have a series of matches with Hawk across the country but then pretty pretty quickly. He's going to form a tag team with Volkov their manager SPA classy Freddie blassie. What did you? How'd you break down? You know the sheiks role in this transitional champion rights. Spot right time. I mean we've had a more sustained. Ron baby-faced territory and you guys you know for years and years kept the title on the baby face. Not He'll but industry in egner traditional sense. How do you think he was done as the world champion when the more long-term run probably would have done very well the whole whole reason for even bringing him in and doing the title switch the way that they did was to get Hulk Hogan over and that's what they did so the used iron sheik and then you have the credibility of the sheikh being an amateur and Olympia in Panama? Marion can champion all this other shit that the Sheikh has done you know real credentials now has credentials of being a former. WWe champion and so that audience. That was a huge deal. It made you made to stars in that process. You got your brand new baby face over and Hulk and you created a formidable opponent and foreign terror in the iron sheik talk about Freddie Blassie. I don't know when we'll talk about him again again. You have already blasted stores you can share with us. None that acted tell on the Dama. I've I've told the tanning bed one. Yes where he got he got stuck. Could you know go back to got many compliments from people who tried the randy savage tips that I gave on tanning originally came from Freddie Blassie. Folks keep your fingers spread and get your arms up and all that good stuff. The AIN'T GONNA keep yards up. Got Deborah Cox owner all that goes back to Freddie. He blasted the tennis man in the building. Friday was just great to me. Fred was a class act and just just very good to me and my family family and I could sit. Listen Fred blassie stories all day long but as far as human being in a person in a talent Fred blassie there will never be another. He was top notch. Keep it rolling here The duo's going to defeat the US express which has windham Rotunda Rondo. wrestlemania wanted to win the tag titles. Lose him back a few months later June and around this time she appears the music video. Goonies r good enough. It's Cindy lauper. As part of the Rock and wrestling connection and the iron sheik character is not just in this music video also regularly saying in cartoon form Orm Bogans Rock and wrestling and he's voiced by different American actor there but this is This is a hot time to be in the business. This is before. You're there but man while anybody's talking about in wrestling is how big this has gotten and how much the boys are breaking and the iron sheik's it's right in the middle to the point. That aren't Anderson here. We've recently talked about this. On his podcast. The cheek was getting eighty grand a quarter. Just from his eljay inaction figure. It's pretty remarkable. When last probably about right I mean the guys were making big money? Sheikh Abol cough were the original heels in that group to actually really have action figures which some people thought. Oh my God you can't have heels. The bigger faces needed somebody to beat up in in this whole thing and I always have to laugh in. Forgive me five told the story on the podcast before. But I remember sitting in in in a booking meeting with bill. Watts Ernie ladd in Bixby Oklahoma. And we're bills office down the end of the table and it was during the time that bill was still just trying to replace. Recreate re whatever he was trying to do uh when since he lost the junk yard dog and Ernie was chastising bill and tell them bill. You can't recreate something. You can't recreate create something the magic that Daiwa had you gotta come up with something new. You know you look at what. Vince McMahon in New York. Doing right now. This McMahon is a genius. I'm telling you abilities billy's genius. Look at what he's got he got bowl cough and he got the iron sheik whether work bill. Because they're real they're real real people know that they're real that's a real thing and he's got the foreign tears. This McMahon as a genius I know he fired my ass. The man is a genius. Yes in this whole tirade. I just start laughing because all I can hear out of the whole thing is admits. McMahon is a genius because he fired her lands s tremendous. That's how Vince fire me. Actually I uh-huh Bruce in the immortal words Ernie ladd. The man is a genius. I'm fired well let's keep it moving here. In storyline blassie is going to sell the contracts for a chic and Nikolai slick slick as their new manager. But this doesn't last a long time because unfortunately some bad news coming may have eighty seven. She can Jim Duggan or pulled over by the New Jersey Z.. State police on their way to WBF event and I suspect bugging of D Wa. After they search the vehicle and the person's they discover the doug was under the the under the influence but apparently of marijuana and they believe that the iron sheik was using cocaine. Small amounts of cocaine also found vehicle in Doug and receives a conditional release while she is placed on probation for a year. You had just gotten to the WWF. I guess give the context to this. The Iron Sheik is of course you know this This evil foreigner. He's a he'll and the all American Eric and Jim Duggan is of course a baby face and now they've been caught together. meltzer would Ri- as most of you probably already heard the biggest news of the week House from Titan land to twenty this this past after noon May Twenty six. Jim Duggan on the iron sheik were arrested on drug charges. The two were driving through Middletown New Jersey route to a car that night and Asbury Park Win. The state troopers pulled them over as they saw doug and drinking a bottle of beer while driving walk into the car. The officers call sent Burns marijuana cigarettes and upon inspection and found several joints in the ashtray of the car. duggan's Fan with small amount of marijuana while three grams of cocaine was found in the sheiks. Shaving Kit Duggan was released later. That day EH. On his own recognizance while she was released after posting a five thousand dollar bond and the two worked against each other later that night in a tag match which ended on Doug and hit chic several times with a chair leading to the pen and unfortunately this incident got considerable news play in major cities including a two page article in the New York Daily News. Lots of play on television Asian News in many cities and a mention in the national wires and even in the USA Today the incident has proven to be a big embarrassment for since Doug and Ashiq or in the midst of a heavily they pushed feud and it came out to the public. Not only were they traveling together but presumably doing drugs together as well. The news reports all but stated that both Doug Ashiq been suspended by Titan. Actually they were both fired and from what I understand. It is highly unlikely that she will ever work for Titan again Talk to me a little bit about what you remember about this because this is maybe the biggest news of the year so far and the wrestling world. Oh my God you're not you're coming off of the success of Wrestlemainia three ninety three thousand people and set records doing all this shit that that's in March arch. Now here. Your in May and Duggan is just gotten started. And they're looking for big things out of Hacksaw Jim Duggan and and she had been around for a while it was. It was devastating. It was devastating to the company. It was devastating to those guys you know not that. It wasn't devastating. She but just so much more to Jim because it just got started art here in just put it in perspective. He's thirty three here that the arrest them aren't Sheikh is forty four. Yeah but you know it was here here. This was I think people were looking for hacksaw dug in to be the next Hulk Hogan in in many respects so it just all going now going down the toilet at this point and this was stern time that we were still working with Paul Bosch and making the trips up. I don't even think I hit officially moved to Connecticut yet at this point in getting this news and having to deal with it Was Not was not a a lot of fun and that was something that people all us to that. The old story. Oh by wrestling's not real. They travelled together her for the has any anything else better to do. That was the lead and that's it went into like no one knew that Rasa was entertainment and Yeah he was miserable. Sign Talk to me about Vinci's his reaction I imagine that he's over the fucking Moon Livid and cutting promos and foreign motherfuckers than telling everybody else never say their names again. Never Work here again. They never existed. Basically the gist. No it was. You know guys at the time I'm there was a feeling that cocaine was was running rampant and it was like okay. They're the perception from the audience was not just from the audience but good God you know you had people in in the White House. alson dare programs and there was a war on drugs. There really was so cocaine was beginning to be frowned upon and Dan. I think Vince looked it. This is an opportunity if we have in the issue. We have a problem with drugs in our locker room that we need to look at it. We need to address it so this was the evidence of of the first drug tests and it was. It was confusing mm-hmm because I don't even think that as company that really knew what the extent of the drug test will be. What have you and the new that okay guys? If you're doing illegal drugs we can't do illegal drugs. Steroids illegal at the time and Obviously obviously prescribed painkillers and shit like that. That those things weren't really an issue the forefront was cocaine's this horrible drug cocaine's bad and that was mainly what they were testing for mainly what they were looking at. Its time and that's what resulted is front from this whole rest was that Guys can't be doing cocaine and in going out performance yet. What do you think tugging? Let me read some Duggan row here quote. I don't think I ever regain the momentum. I would have had before the arrests with the Iron Sheik. I think it goes on the fast track. I think could have been world champion intercontinental attack champion but I never regain that momentum and I think a lot of guys may have totally crushed career but I was lucky enough to survive and actually thrive after the arrests and I know that feels if you are maybe a little younger and you know the Jim Duggan get more comedy character. Jim Duggan was an ass. Kicker and Bill Watts territory and I do wonder what you think is upside could have been had it not meant for the stutter step. I think that he could have been right up there in that in randy savage average ultimate warrior role because Doug and when he left midsouth was just that hot and Doug as lovable lovable baby faces lovable human being and that came across so that big ass kicking lovable human being USA. Two by I four wielding monster was relatable and the audiences just man. They ate him up because he was believable. He was big was lovable and pledges role very well. Well never say never happens in May of any seven February very eighteenth. The Iron Sheik is back. And he's going to defeat S. T. Jones. How Show in East Rutherford New Jersey at the meadowlands is going to stick around and Russell House shows through February February and March? And he's usually facing guys like Lenny ofo or can prepare our Bam Bam bigelow. It doesn't actually pop back up on TV until July. Thirtieth where. Hey Defeat Scott Casey and a mask on prime time wrestling and if you continue to wrestle him that summer and even eventually have some matches with the Red Rooster but the commentary on his return is a little different than maybe the way he was presented before as lots of discussion about how he's gained weight and he's lost. Some of his mobility ultimately does have a soft spot for the old timers the appreciative for what he did with the whole Hogan Ganja Ganja thing why what leads them coming back here and I think it was out of loyalty and I think it was out of a thank you for the the sheikh coming to him on the burn Ganja stuff and dropping the title the whole doing business and got a soft spot for some guys in one of them is news of course the Ashiq. We should mention that He's he's out of there not too terribly long. It's it's a very short return it makes them Stops in world class for the AWA and even some shots in Puerto Rico was finally lands in the end of UA now WCW in nineteen eighty. Nine is big moment. There's probably at the music city showdown singles match with sting. Jim Cornet has told the this story. It's pretty famous guests that they brought him in and signed him for a year but they forgot to give him a notice so his contract automatically rolled over renewed for another year and Cornyist you said. They tried to bring them back to their jobs but he was just so bad that they thought it would be better to send him home and pay him to not work so not a bad gig if you can get it. But it's not the last. We would hear the iron sheik. Nee this is when I remember the most probably hang on hang on I gotta go back to during that stint in. WCW We were It was a like a holiday show in Houston and I was there visiting family. And what have you and WCW was in town. Thomas was in town We're both home for Christmas and went down to go. See the guys is after the show at the what is now. I think equality in off of airport drive in Monroe and the head a little bar in there with a dance floor and I hadn't seen Sheikh at this point in a little while probably at least a year but a Ghanaian and said hello load everybody and just GonNa have a drink or two. When she came in and afford to be on Mr Bruce? I love so much yes come gift cheeky hug and I gave Sheikh a big hug and Sheikh belly to belly. SUPLEX me on the dance floor. So if you've Ever been belly to belly suplex by someone who knows what the fuck they're doing and someone with technique and the Just a guy like iron sheik suplex near it's one thing to get suplex on the Mattis. Another thing to get suplex on the the dance floor and shake took such good fucking Karume and barely felt a thing but that was my greeting Ashiq after not seeing him for about a year and then then he proceeded to get me in a corner. Just telling me how much I love me sort of events you tell you. Tell me set of its BUBBA. How much I love I love him? I Love Linda I love. I love the girl I love them. Now Mr Pat Patterson I love Bruce Little side love you and this went on for my my one drink turned the two hours in a corner. We chic professing his love for everyone on the northeast but it was good times it was. It was really nice to see she. Can I. These eases special guide to me. I do want to ask about him coming back in ninety one. This is really when he's on my radar on March Eleventh Nineteen Ninety One He comes back on wrestling challenge here. He's Colonel Mustafa and he's aligned with the former enemy Sorenson slaughter is walk into the ring and has a different sort of movement. Almost bushwacker like March. Why come back here while renaming Colonel Mustafa I think most wrestling fans at this era in this? You know just a few years removed from the Iron Sheik. Probably wonder why not to stick with that. Let's say you let it I it was stacking the deck and it was is as many things as we could do to really make you hate sargent slaughter. There was a portion of the audience that hated SARS should be in a turncoat. There was also a portion audience. That some of that. He went to the company because like SARS was all American. Gi Joe so we needed as many people around owned him. The you could hate and the more credibility the better He had odd. I'm not who was legit Iraqi. Who legit was friends with Saddam? Hussein Then you had the Iron Sheik Sheikh who was Iranian and that being put up there with Sarge it just it was a terrible trio. Go that guy could barely walk and work on and then and then sarge so but it was just stacking the deck. You can try to get as much heat as you possibly could and I never got the I get it. But I don't agree with they. Carnival Stafa was because you had general Ogden was it. It was like an army yet. Sargent slaughter general odd non on. You needed a colonel in their hence with Stafa. Well here he is Probably think he did. You know what I I mean. It's not a terribly long run. We've talked a lot about you. Know this whole angle and and what we thought of it and what you guys battled with it but it only lasts roughly year and then he's out out of there I mean. Is that about what you were thinking when you bring him back for this like wings ways a year out of this or did you think there was more legs to it and it just didn't work out. I was shocked. got a year out of it the to be blunt it was at I. I believe originally it was. Let's see where this goes. We can use this going into Russell. Maniac we can use this for short term. Just dump a little bit more heat on Sarge which I was shocked last as long as it did I think he did okay. I mean limited so you knew what you had going in. It wasn't like he could do a whole lot. You didn't have the sheikh of old but it worked for adding more heat discharge large in ninety two. He tries his hand at quote shoot style wrestling ring in the Wfan. Japan loses by tap powder about five and a half minutes. We haven't spent a lot of time talking about the W F. I tell everybody what that was supposed to be with the concept was and then what what he thought of it. You know the fuck it was I. I know that the guys that that tried to do it in in many later years where they wanted to to create work shoots in there. Those of believe you know this all the shooter guys that it was it was a work. It was a worked shoot and They wanted to kind of have a UFC type promotion in Japan that it was like okay. What they do is what they do but what we do is real and when the real guys get tired of doing the fake shit? They'll come over to here in you'll see a real fight But I you know I don't think that it it's tough to exist with the same same groups doing two different things that make you know what I'm saying like what they're doing over here is is Faye. That's why hate abroa- what they're doing over here. We're doing Israel and you'd use them. The same guys is back and forth. It gets confusing the audience. Of course we know that The Sheikh is going to pop back up And I've always sort of an been fascinated by how this happens but nineteen ninety-seven POPs back up and he's managing Tiger Ali Singh. Yeah I guess we should back up a little bit in ninety six. He's teaming with his old nemesis Bob back onto minutes the sultan and that goes until I guess yes late ninety seven but somewhere during the summer He starts managing unbelievably Tiger Ali. Singh with all these father of course Tiger Jeet Singh that doesn't last by the end of the year he's failed another drug test and he's referred to it as his medicine tests and that was the reason he was like. Oh well okay I got since you brought it up and all the first drug test that cheek ever fail he was was given the news and they said Sheikh. Guess News for you. The results on your drug test came back positive. And she reacts with just the big huge smile that a good good shaky a very good drug test is positive. I thank you I tell you sheiky did good. Don't know she. The positive is bad. It means you had your drugs and uses its positive is good and took a little explaining before the absolutely realized that no positive is bad. You you can't do this late little language barrier there a little bit talk to me about Managing the Sultan. Of course we know the salt in is eventually going to go on What's the idea behind you You know is it just got down. This has always worked. Let's just get a more modern version. Let's have the old one managing China of a May we were looking for something to completely high Junior and and is just now explain. Ask you don't mean hot for any other reason than people know him as a head drinker people no matter. You don't want him to be totally recognizable. So let's come up with a way out there gimmick because he can still go he just you know has been differently so shaved his head put a partial mask on him and go from there and then surround him enough distractions. That your aren't GonNa realize it but there were there Ri- hopes there were high the hopes for the Sultan while ultimately though worked out. I don't think that rickie she's Heart was in it. And the not say you dump a lot of heat you. A lot of distractions distractions unfortunately distracted too much and it was a bad distraction. She let's talk a little bit about Tiger Ali saying I don't know when we'll talk about him again. We've always teased a little bit here. And there not maybe not the best creative maybe not the best performer. Why didn't it will create? It was great to perform was was terrible. Terrible it just we you know we didn't. That's one where we were sold a bill goods and we didn't in your homework. That's I can raise my hand. Go God damn it. You know I watched in Is the one that I point to for the most part of our stopped watching if somebody sent me highlight tapes a thrown in the trash. I WANNA see matches. I WANNA see promos. I don't WanNa see a fucking se w music video. I WanNa see what you can do. I WanNa see you sell. I WANNA see you lose. I WanNa see how you had you do the job I WanNa see you do everything you do. Not just a highlight tape of your best moments of your Anassa. We buy it. You really referencing. referencing moves a lot of guys would try to put a slick production factor to it. They'd put music to it. They'd put graphics to it and it's just hospital hospital hospital but you wanna see transitions Russians and the little nuanced off right. Exactly I wanna see what they can do and Game Day conditions so Ali was was one of those that had beautifully prepared a highlight tapes that we were looking at each other events in our looking each other gone. Good God God. How in the hell did we miss this guy and once we got him we found out pretty quickly why we missed him because he just who was all high wasn't the old man you know? The old man had charisma. The old man had a violence. Let's to him in a in an error to him that we talk about heels people were genuinely scared. People were genuinely scared of Tiger Jeet Singh but Tiger Ali Singh did not have the same kind of charisma and aptitude for the Business Awesome opinion that his dad did just interesting that that one flopped You know any other interesting interesting story. She can mention about Sheikh during nineteen ninety-seven whether it's with Sultan or road stories traveling or feedback on Tiger Ali. Here here in little details but yeah I it just was a it was an uncomfortable. It was an uncomfortable time because it was a perfect example of just time and the business passing people buy in this was the watershed moment for our she. Where you go? All right man Damn Gaza I don't know what to do with you. You can't cut a promo you can barely walk to the ring any more and and it's not good So we just had to. We had to cut bait and just move on as hard as it is to do. Do because of the feelings that Vince had for him personally and there was still that personal personal connection that thence always appreciated what Gaza done for him early on and wanted to take care of him but putting him on air was a detriment to the product into himself. All guys a lot of opportunity to come back wrestlemainia seventeen. He's in the Gimmick Battle Royal Lasts Hillbilly. Jim and he wins it. But you've got an interesting perspective on. Maybe why she won this one. Well the best part of that day I think was Kurt. Angle ekern angle nineteen ninety zips Olympic gold medalist who beat the Iranian and as soon as she arrived his. What is this A gold-medal Kurt Angle. He he my man my man my boy I train and Kurt Kirk Dangle gold medal when the Iranian Mutt traineeship In of course as soon as has shake starts at certain people who just start poking the bear with Kirk. Hey Kirk yeah man sheiks looking for going to stretch your ass. 'cause he cheated against Hansa his protege. In the Olympics Kerr Cycle faulk come on and incur is so respectful in just. He's he's excited to meet the sheik but at the same time he's like Oh God is really as crazy as as you guys say so. He's excited I and we're in catering and I come walking chic over said Shake Kurt Angle Kerr cazenove Siri To meet you so great to meet you Mr Kerr Tangle a humble myself I said to you you know my man because right near the Olympic match and he just he just kept on would let go and Kurt had a match. You start get and we were trying to get the royal put together and what have you take. And the reason you know. I'll I'll say it is the racist as a chic won the damn thing my opinion is who the hell he could get over the top rope. It took him forty five minutes to get to the ring and You know nobody was gonNA. I don't think he could have gotten over the top rope safely. An that was obviously again long before we have our medical core protocols. And what have you where somebody tells you that. They're good to go on the rain. Okay let's put them in the rain so you know we had those situations going on you guys probably should not have been in the ring probably me included Now is fine. I was great God. Damn I should have won that motherfucker but it it was just a lot of fun to put it together. I think that she felt what else. Could you do blah other than put to sheiky over. A course either later she quit I I will shoot and throw out all the Gibran his but that's what it was. I was a lot of fun. Actually she told call me where he went after he goes up of you. Stay you stick close to make sure no fuck with you and I got as far away from him as I possibly could because I was afraid he was going to grab hold of me. Kill me. What was the big day Celebrate he goes into the hall of fame in two thousand five as all rival Sargent slaughter in ducks. And what did you think of Sheikhs Induction speech. It was true true chic man it was. I think what everyone expected. And you you know sometimes you you pay for what you get and that that was the sheet but I also when you look look back at people that deserve to be in law of fame man. Sheikh is one of those guys that I'm glad that he got his just due in the hall of fame without without question a bona fide hall of Famer. We know that He's GonNa pop up a little bit here and there including in two thousand seven. He appears appears on raw with Jimmy. SNUKA tape segment whether showing their appreciation for Vince McMahon and On August thirteenth. He does a WB VERSION OF AMERICAN IDOL. Where Volkov's is going to come out and seeing the Soviet anthem of course he supports them? There Erin pops up again in a nine and ten. It feels like you know every year or every other year Vincent Grandma's finding ending away and it just pay him is to the iron sheik but somewhere along the way he made a fairly random appearance on Howard stern earn and it gave him like a new life. What do you remember about that? Appearance and the crazy catchphrases coming out of it. And all that you guys were seeing from afar we'll I think that there was There were rumors you know that she can maybe been dabbling. Maybe drinking a little bit too much in dabbling in the recreational drugs again and it was kind of sad from an outside viewpoint looking the end because you feel for the guy and he truly is someone that I respect when you look back his life in everything that he has done in his life from a small child and growing up in Iran and becoming a champion wrestler coming the bodyguard to the Chevelle ran Iran escaping Iran in making a name for himself all over the world a a huge name in an industry filled with huge names to this day. People still. He's at the top of that list. So I have the utmost respect for him in at just stop op look. I'm not a big Howard stern fan in the first place so I thought that they took advantage of him and it was. It was an opportunity to do the things we have fun with with Sheikh in I would humbly and fuck you Brian Blair in the ass Bribe bribe layered uneven know where that came from which is great but she pissing himself and all that and and exploiting that I just personally I didn't like it does yes. It was notoriety. And yes it got his name out there and yes people had a good laugh. Personally I I didn't like it. He does Land some some managers who think. Hey there's some money in this and start to do comedy club tours and made some appearances on the cartoon network and You know when he became a little bit of a an internet sensation there for a while and there was even a documentary Henry. A few years ago which I believe is available Amazon recommend everybody check out and all the greats pay them. Is Jim Ross. To the Rock and everybody in between we should mention Incheon he married Carol Peterson back in seventy six. He was the best man are the best man at the wedding rather was gene Oakland. Which is kind of funny to me? Because I don't remember she ever saying his name right he always said Jean. I think so Interesting character to say at least he's got three grown daughters five grandchildren Several years ago you know they they put that I guess six years ago now now they put together a documentary that we mentioned I think it's on Amazon now. The Iranian legend the Iron Sheik Story. Really really well done talk to me a little bit about Ashiq person you know we talk about his wife and his kids and gene main ring is best man. That's the size of Sheikh. I don't think a lot of people know. Yeah and and there was a there was an incident in sheiks life where his his daughter was murdered in a horrible horrible crime that I think that was the deciding factor where she kinda went went over the edge and just never recovered from that. which I can't imagine I don't I don't know how someone don't know how I would deal with anything like that happening? And Sheikh dealt with it and he's had Just an incredible incredible story and incredible life and then to have that kind of tragedy in it. it can be overwhelming no matter who the hell you are so as far as she can as far as some of the just not international stars that had come through the business. I I think that Sheikh is one of those that stands ends head and shoulders above the rest because of everything that he did overcome and made a huge name for himself and was able to to prosper prosper in a place where he probably wasn't supposed to and in a from a atmosphere from home life and in Iran. where I I think? A lot of people. didn't have the ability to get out like he did and he's a he's an incredible story man and it's and it's it's one that is a little unbelievable but the crazier it is the truth. Just it's just the truth and it's it's testament to who he is as human being while most loving great to this day if he is at a convention like an autograph signing deal Chic Sheikh there. No matter what I'm doing where I am. I have to go and kiss the ring and just a you have to go one. Say hello to Sheikh and and give them a hug and let them know you love him gazetted. What do you think his His legacy will be in in the business. Do you think it'll be what he did. In the ring as more of a a manager or ringside second or some of this pop culture stuff has happened in the last decade or so I think that the the sheikh overall will be remembered one of the greatest heels in the wrestling business and from the early boom of the Hulkamania years Saturday night's main event. Dan What have you sheik was probably one of the most recognizable Bad guys businesses ever had talked to me about you. You know the Even the phrases weird now but the quote unquote four and he'll he's got to be near the top of the list. Where would you rank him all time probably number one? It's really hard to argue. You know I was thinking about that beforehand and every time I kept going was gotta be number number one. I thought well that just can't be. I mean what about this guy and that guy but realistically I can't come up with a name. That's bigger than the iron sheik as a as a quote unquote evil foreign. He'll right and it was is Ernie ladd said Israel. You gotta believe in. Because he's real. Well I believe in hope you guys did too wanted to pay homage to one of the all time greats and celebrate his big title win. Even though it was short-lived Pave the way for Hulkamania man. And you know I think legends like the cheek should be celebrated and I hope he's What the Hell is that? Hey I have a I have an actual hardline in my house. Conrad I know I was really is you. Don't that is yeah. I mean I think that verse limits ever rang. Has Everything okay. Is that Vince. While you're not working this half hour to probably it. Sounds like he doesn't have this number because I don't think I have this number. Sounds like a bruce has to go but tune in next week New Year's revolution. Two thousand five on deck. It's a brand new year. It's a brand new something to wrestle everything Friday right here on Westwood one hit the subscribe button. Leave us a five star review. If you think we've earned it by all means. Please do us a favor and go subscribe to our Youtube Channel. Lots of clips coming your way there. And if you haven't having already tell a friend about something to wrestle with Richard in are truly can't thank everyone enough it has been just incredible and I'm so excited about twenty twenty in the New Year and thank you guys coming along for the ride live so shocking to go have lunch with partial be ash.

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S8: Treasure Hunt: The Great Mogul Diamond

Parcast Presents

39:58 min | 6 months ago

S8: Treasure Hunt: The Great Mogul Diamond

"It outlasted the reign of kings survived the fall of empires but after the assassination of its final owner in seventeen. Forty-seven all records of the great mogul. Diamond virtually disappeared. If you enjoy this episode and want to hear. More Tales of history's most mystifying. Disappearances subscribe to our series gone today in addition to new episodes of gone. Every other Monday. You'll get a special mini episode on off Monday's but only on spotify until then enjoy this road in seventeen thirty nine Persian emperor dear Shah led an army of approximately twenty thousand men against Mohammad. Shah the mogul emperor of India in a ruthless invasion deer and his decimated Muhammed's armies in what is known as the battle of Karnal. Muhammed eventually surrendered handing over his empire in Delhi. This empire wasn't only land but included something so rare tantalizing its true value was incalculable. The great mogul diamond. However this two hundred eighty carat gemstone came with a curse. Those who came into contact with a great diamond had gone bankrupt been exiled and had their entire empire thrown now dear. Its new owner was not spared in seventeen forty seven. Assassins broke into New Year's quarters and decapitated him. And just like that. The Great Mogul. Diamond disappeared from the annals of history. Hi I'm molly and I'm Richard. Welcome to gone the show where we search for everything missing every other Monday. We examined mysterious disappearances. The theories they spawned from the Amber Room to Michael Rockefeller the Costco paintings. To the address can language the roanoke colony to the lost Russian cosmonauts. If it's gone we're looking for it. You can find previous episodes as well as podcasts. Other podcasts on your favorite podcast directory. Some of you have been asking how you can support gone if you enjoy the show. The best way to support us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you listen today we will be looking into the seventeen forty seven disappearance of the great mogul diamond which arose from the dirt of a dried riverbed in India and became one of the world's most puzzling precious stones. The Great Mogul. Diamond had a brief and troubling history. It was kept as a testament to its owners wealth and power but it was never in the same hands for long. The brilliant diamond witnessed this exile of kings and the fall of empires but in seventeen forty-seven after the assassination of its final owner. All records of the diamond virtually disappeared. How could such a grand treasurer be so quickly lost to time? Our first theory claims that it ended up in the British crown. Jewels after England's colonisation of India. Our second theory assumes that the diamond is actually masquerading as another famous diamond. The Orlov now residing in a Russian museum but whether it's hiding in plain sight or the diamond remains in some other unknown location. The great mogul diamond remains a much sought after mystery to fully explore this story. We must go back to the Diamond's origins at the center of the Earth. Most people believed that diamonds come from coal but the truth is coal. Rarely plays a part in the formation of diamonds coal is produced by ancient plant deposits on the earth's surface but most diamonds come from the Earth's mantle nearly one hundred miles below the surface and when diamonds emerged from those extreme depths. Don't come quietly there. Spewed out through violent volcanic eruptions known as Kimberlite eruptions. These are extremely rare and it is believed that the less kimberlite eruption occurred more than twenty five million years ago. The great mogul diamond was most likely formed from one of these eruptions. It was discovered along the Krishna River in the Gulf Kanda Mine. In India India was the birthplace of the diamond trade which probably began around four hundred BC. In fact until seventeen twenty five when diamonds were first discovered in Brazil? India was the only source of these gems. These unique stones were quickly seen as valuable indicators of class status and traded along the Silk Road a network of trade routes connecting the east with the West not to mention early civilizations actually believed the diamonds were gifts from the Gods and those who found or received them would be blessed with wealth strength and good health if that was the case they must have believed the great mogul diamond. Would bring them immortality because it was so massive in sixteen fifty six when it made its first real appearance and written histories. The Islamic mogul empire was thriving India prusiene Emperor Shah Jehan whose name means King of the world presided over the throne and his taste for extravagance reflected this estes title in sixteen thirty two. He commissioned the famed Taj Mahal in Agra a stunning mausoleum built for his young wife after her death Shah Jehan also had the famous peacock throne adorned with gold and covered in rubies emeralds and pearls built for himself but he was about to get even fancier because in sixteen fifty six a wealthy general named Emir Gem. La came to Delhi and met with Shah Jehan to establish good diplomatic relations. Jemma worked for Abdulah King of Gaul Kanda India and was trying to broker an alliance between the two leaders. But he didn't come empty-handed among his gifts for the emperor was the great diamond at the time it was the largest diamond ever discovered in its rough original state. This stone way to wapping seven hundred eighty seven and a half carrots. That's equal to more than one hundred and fifty seven grams about as heavy as a billiards ball or half as heavy as a human heart. That's huge the average size for an engagement ring in the US in two thousand seventeen was zero point nine carrots so not even one carat and that size goes for about six thousand dollars depending on design retailer and other factors to give vague sense of its value. One of the largest diamonds ever sold at auction one hundred and eighteen carat diamond a fraction of the size of the great mogul. That went for thirty point. Six million dollars in two thousand thirteen as for what it looked like it has been described as an egg cut in half. The top end formed a cone shape. The opposite end a flat circle. This shape was referred to as a rose cut because the shape somewhat resembles a Rosebud. Rose cuts are relatively rare and this gave the great mogul diamond and even more unique quality. Jehan was quite pleased with a gift but ordered that the diamond be cut to make it fit for an emperor such as he the stone in its natural state would not do. There were too many aesthetic flaws like lines and cracks which in jeweler speak are called inclusions. Ancient Indian text. The ran up periscope alluded to the importance of a flawless diamond. Saying quote. Wise men not use a diamond with visible flaws. As a gem end quote so Jehan hired or ten CIO born Gio of Venetian lapidary or gemstone cutter to refine it. Bora Gio began cutting the stone grinding away. All the problematic flaws but go figure the more he ground the smaller and lighter stone God after Borgias work. The stone was a mirror. Two hundred eighty three carats less than half the size of the original this way about two ounces as much as a staff of twelve nichols not a billiards ball. But still quite the hefty jewel. Unfortunately the new size and weight became a bit of a problem. The size of the stone was one of its primary appeals Emperor Shah. Jehan was furious so much so he wanted to execute Borneo for his poor workmanship but Jehan stopped short of that instead. He Find Bores. Yo Ten thousand rupees. Basically all the money. That diamond cutter had to his name. Borgias page gone and laughed a very poor and shamefaced man. It seemed that bore Joe may have been the first man to fall prey to the curse of the great mogul. Several years later in sixteen fifty seven. John became very ill in his old age. This launched a competition for the throne between his four sons. The Youngest Orange Zab killed one of his brothers and eventually claimed the empire. He sent his father away to the Red Fort. A Sandstone fortress located on the Yarmuk River it was basically a prison for Shah Jehan where he spent the last years of his life until his death in sixteen. Sixty six whatever happened to respecting your elders. Let alone your own father and I have to ask could. The so called. Curse of the diamond have led to John's plight possibly but we can also blame orange ebbs greed. He wanted the kingdom and all its treasures to himself including the great mogul diamond are exempt kept all that he wrongfully inherited in a special chamber in the palace he was very proud of it is collection. Caught the eye of a famous jewel merchant from France named John Baptiste. Tavernier Tavernier was a world traveler. And Jim Aficionado who made six voyages to the East between sixteen thirty to sixteen sixty eight. He wrote extensively about his experiences. Eventually publishing the two volume book the six voyages of Jean Baptiste Tavernier. It became a best seller and was translated into four languages in his lifetime. This man was so obsessed with diamonds that he traveled at his own expense in search of them and reveled in the opportunity to study them since only royalty in the extremely affluent could get hold of such prizes tavern. Yay met with a lot of important global leaders. He was known internationally for his expertise. Gemstones one such leader which Schaja Han Sun King. Orange Ebb who led Tavernier get acquainted with the great mogul diamond officers? Escort Tavernier into a small chamber where the king was sitting on his throne. Tavernier then met the chief keeper of the Jewels Cal Khan who commanded for UNIX to fetch the stones. They brought the gems out on gilded wooden trays covered with red velvet cloths to protect them such presentation and understandably so. Tavernier was awed by all this documented. The experience writing quote the first piece which CAL CON put in. My hands was the great diamond. Which is around. Rose cut very high on one side on the lower edge. There is a slight crack and a little flaw in it. It's water is beautiful unquote water refers to a diamonds degree of brilliance. According to Ta- Varney a the great mogul was extremely bright and sparkly to put it in simpler terms. It made quite the impression on him and he forever immortalized it by drawing a sketch of it in his book after this Tavernier's continued on his journey of Jules. Leaving the great mogul behind better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. They say the diamond remained with the mogul empire passing hands to an emperor by the name of Mohammad Shah in seventeen nineteen a little over fifty years after Orange Ebrell the region but it would not stay with this new leader for long. Perhaps we have the curse to blame for that because Emperor Muhammad Shah was in for a world of trouble. Could the great mogul diamond had been responsible for the fall of Mohammed shots empire? We'll find out after the break now. Back to the story in seventeen. Thirty EIGHT MOGUL. Emperor Mohammad Shop possessed one of the region's most valued treasures. The great mogul diamond. But that and everything else Mohammed owned was about to be threatened a bloodthirsty emperor from Persia was coming for the mogul empire. His name was nadir's born in sixteen. Eighty eight in Khorasani Persia nuclear grew up a poor peasant. He was forced into slavery but escaped captivity and eventually became a soldier. The military was where he thrived nuclear advanced quickly there but when he conflicted with a high ranking official name dear went rogue and formed his own army bold move definitely and it set the stage for. Nadir's rise to power in seventeen twenty nine. He freed Persia from Afghan control and seven years later ascended to the throne as emperor of Persia not long after he went on conquering rampage throughout much of the East which led him to just outside of Delhi India with a foolproof strategy for a takeover at Karnal Sixty eight miles north of Delhi. Nadu Shah Army of twenty thousand against Muhammad Shah's forces consisting of nearly three hundred thousand soldiers and two thousand war elephants. Although the deers troops were greatly outnumbered. Muhammed's forces had a disadvantage. There artillery was fairly antiquated. Much too heavy and hard to maneuver. Nadir's Shaw ever. The military strategist used a three prong approach dividing his limited troops into three main sectors. Using one of these lines of offense a diversion shock commanded an ambush and it was downhill for the mogul troops from there. The Persians defeated their enemy within three hours of the battles start. This was the beginning of the end of the mogul dynasty. Mohammad Shah soon handed over his empire tuna dear soon after the deer began enforcing strict laws and taxation on citizens. The Persian military presence was oppressive and soldiers were quick to punish civilians. This intern catalyzed an uprising. Civilians fought back killing the dears men when the deer himself wrote out from his newly claimed palace a man fired a musket at him narrowly missing him. This was the last Straw and it drove nuttier to seek safety the top of a mosque once there. He ordered his men to enter all the areas where Persian soldiers were being attacked and kill every civilian inside erased. His sword which signalled the start of a massacre around thirty thousand civilians including women and children were killed by Persians. After the bloodshed deer had his men plunder all the riches and treasures of the mogul dynasty stealing the famous peacock throne and of course the legendary. Great Mogul diamond. Sadly Nadir's bloodlust only increased as he traveled the lands to gain more territory. He loved war and he took pride and decimating villages and cities at one point. When told that there would be no war in the afterlife? Dear responded with quote there be any delights there end quote. His murderous rampages caught up with him though and he developed severe liver and gastrointestinal problems not to mention his mind began to get the best of him as he became increasingly psychotic. Time went on then in seventeen forty one and assassination attempt. Put him over the edge. Nadiri was convinced that his eldest son raise Kuli Mirza was the man behind the plot so he had him blinded six years later afternoon. Deers physical and mental states continued to deteriorate. Several of his commanders. Entered his private quarters while he slept wants there. They attacked him but he awoke and fought back. He killed two of them but the others managed to cut off his head thus in seventeen forty seven. Now Dear Shaw's violent reign came to an end. Dear left behind a treasure trove among the valuables. The great mogul diamond or so. We think we don't know for sure because afternoon deers death. The diamond couldn't be found or tract. Where did that majestic stone sneak off to? Was it strategically taken or did it simply get lost in the mix? One thing to note is that the great mogul diamond is only called that in John. Baptiste Tavernier's report. That's the name he gave. It many believed that the great mogul diamond could have become the Kohinoor diamond. The great mogul diamond disappeared from written history. Leaving no track record so when a similar diamond popped up in British records some historians in jewelers suggested it was actually that same stone making a reappearance. Let's take a look at the story of the Kohinoor and see if it lines up with the great mogul. First of all Kohinoor means mountain of light in Persian. According to an article in scientific American it was NYDIA. Who named the great mogul the Kohinoor? When he first laid eyes on it this would have been in seventeen thirty nine when it fell into his hands. After the battle of Karnal perhaps the great mogul was simply renamed by. It's last confirmed. Owner mountain of light sounds as though it would benefit anyone who possessed it however Hindu taxed claimed only a woman could wear the Kohinoor. If a man owned it he would be cursed another aspect which links the two diamonds making a case for their shared. Identity Bright Schaja. Jehan died in captivity after his son basically imprisoned him dear Shah was murdered by his own men in the story of the Coen afternoon dear. Shah's death the stone passed to one of his generals Ahmad Shah Durrani his descendant Shah Shujaat. Durrani eventually got a hold of the diamond and brought it back to India in eighteen thirteen in the early nineteenth century. The kohinoor diamond passed his shy Shia Aghanistan who had inherited it now the Maharaja of Punjab India a man by the name of Ranjit Singh got wind of the Kohinoor Prestige. And he wanted it badly. He tried to strike a deal with the Afghan leader. But Shaw Shia. Didn't want to hand it over. This caused some diplomatic issues and mighty the political waters between the two regions sing stalled by lying several times. I saying that he pawned the Kohinoor. Then saying it was lost with a bunch of other jewels and after the third request he sent a Topaz gem to run Jeet Singh claiming that was the jewel seeing was furious at the ruse and in a surprising power. Move sent a guard. She has house to prevent him from drinking or eating for two days. She finally caved and agreed to hand over the diamond and so it made its way to a new owner yet again in eighteen forty-three duleep Singh. The last of Ranjit Singh sons became the ruler of Punjab and inherited the Kohinoor. He was only ten years old at the time while this was going on. The British of the east India Company and the sick empire were entangled in a series of wars for control of the continent. The east India company had first arrived on the shores of India in sixteen hundred eight with two goals in mind established trade and acquire territory in Sixteen fifteen. The British established a factory at Seurat eventually formed several trading posts along the coast the British established large communities around the three primary cities of Calcutta Bombay and Madras. But what started out. As a business venture eventually transformed into a military takeover the company gained a stronghold in the region and eventually began to dominate Indian government and education by eighteen forty nine the British claimed the ultimate victory and gained ownership of Lahore the capital city of Punjab. And guess what the British wanted the Kohinoor. They made this clear in the treaty. They forced young. Delete sing to sign. Part of the treaty read quote. The Gem called the Kohinoor shall be surrendered by the Maharaja of Lahore to the Queen of England. End Quote once surrendered. The diamond was put in supposedly safe keeping. It was weighed at one hundred. Eighty seven carrots which is almost one hundred less than the last week of the great mogul. So if the Kohinoor is the great mogul diamond. It would have been cut some time in the century between. Shawna deers and the British acquisition of the diamond. It seems odd that any owners would wanna cut the diamond while Tavernier did not a slight flaw that an owner might have wanted to remove cutting the diamond. That severely seems illogical. Losing so many carrots would certainly sink. Its value but there are earier similarities. Between the great mogul diamond and the Kohinoor once it was weighed. Three members of the British government at Punjab were tasked with holding the Kohinoor until they were ordered to do otherwise. One of those men John Lawrence would be the one to keep it on his person but one night lawrence place the diamond which was now encased in a box inside his coat pocket however when he changed for dinner and removed his coat he forgot to transfer the diamond about six weeks later. The men received a message. That Queen Victoria wanted the diamond immediately and then came the Ono Moment for Lawrence. He didn't know where the diamond was. We'll find out where the diamond went after the break now back to the story in eighteen fifty nine John Lawrence tasked with protecting the Kohinoor. Diamond had forgotten it in his coat pocket several weeks earlier and now the queen of England herself was ordering it to be delivered to her as soon as possible pretending he knew exactly where it was lawrence quickly ran to find his servant and asked if he had found anything in his coat pocket weeks earlier the servant replied yes. I've found it and put it in one of your boxes. The Servant brought the box to him and Lawrence opened it to find the diamond safe and sound. Well can you imagine the Relief Lawrence must have felt what a close call? Indeed it was. It could have easily been stolen or lost. And that would have been a hefty price to pay now that the diamond was located. It was on. Its Way to England but I it had to survive the streets of Bombay India and some of its rougher areas it passed through unscathed and once it reached London it was put an iron box and deposited in the government treasury on July third eighteen. Fifty the deputy chairman hand delivered to Buckingham Palace for the Queen. But as it crossed into Britain's epicenter it brought with it the whispers of suspicion. The legend of this diamond that it carried a bad luck curse became a rumor that swept the nation in many were wary of its potential power this curse is reminiscent of the curse that came with the great mogul diamond the similarities between that and the Kohinoor are stacking up and this curse only made the Kohinoor more alluring in England. It debuted in the great exhibition in the Crystal Palace in Hyde Park people came in droves to view it. It was the toast of the town but then people started to talk and criticize the diamond. The main note was that it didn't shine as brilliantly as everyone had hoped and there was one important man who agreed with the sentiment. Prince Albert Queen. Victoria's husband so he ordered it. Be Re cut and polished. Prince Albert hired a Dutchman vermonter reputable diamond cutter who travelled to London to do the work. This process took thirty eight days. The GEM now weighed one hundred five carrots but the re cutting allowed. It's face to reflect more light so it appeared to be brighter and more brilliant clean. Victoria began wearing it as broach. There's a photo of her taken in eighteen. Eighty seven in which is in diamonds but the Kohinoor stands out as the largest and most notable. The stone wouldn't stay in. That broke forever though. It was eventually placed in the center of a Royal Crown and Queen. Alexandra Victoria's daughter-in-law was the first to wear it. Then in nineteen thirty seven the Kohinoor was reset into a new crown and the Queen. Mother began wearing it. The Queen Mother refers to Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes Lyon the wife of King George the sixth and the mother of Queen Elizabeth the second and Princess Margaret. She even wore it at her own funeral in two thousand two. That was the last time the Kohinoor made a public appearance. The diamond remains in the crown and now resides in the jewel house in the Tower of London. There's been much controversy surrounding the true of this diamond Indian. Government officials have repeatedly demanded it be returned citing that it was forcibly taken during England's colonisation of India. According to an article from the Telegraph posted in two thousand sixteen the Ministry of Culture said quote the government of India further reiterates. Its resolve to make all possible efforts to bring back the Kohinoor diamond in an amicable manner and quote and the controversy continues to this day but the history of the Kohinoor prior to being in British hands is muddy. And it's hard to verify who exactly owned it or where exactly it came from other than a mine in Gull Kanda the same area. The great mogul diamond came from. Could this mean that the Kohinoor was indeed the great mogul diamond at one point? And perhaps it was only its name. That changed a meteorologist by the name of James Tennant thinks so he believes that the Kohinoor displays similarities to the great mogul described by expert jeweler. Jean Baptiste Tavernier. During his study of IT tenant rights quote. The KOHINOOR had a flaw near the summit. Which being on a line of cleavage parallel to the upper surface may very possibly have been produced when the upper portion was removed and quote. If you'll recall much of the great mogul was removed in the mid sixteen hundreds when Shaw Johann had cut however the Coen ores wait never matched up with the great mogul. According to record the last known weight of the Great Mogul was two hundred. Eighty three carrots but when the Cohen nor made it to England it was only one hundred eighty seven carrots. Some historians believe that. This is because jean-baptiste have rene may have recorded an inaccurate weighed when he wrote about the great mogul in his report. Interesting putting the Kohinoor aside for a moment there's another name another identity that the great mogul could have assumed it's time to hear the story of the Orlov diamond which ended up in the hands of Russian. Empress Catherine the great in seventeen sixty eight. This story is steeped much more in mystery legend and criminal intrigue and it begins in the temple of wrong in southern India. It's unclear how this legend originated but it's closely tied with the Orlov inside a temple. Dating back to the mid seventeenth century stands a statue of the Deity. Lord Ranga Nafa. His eyes were composed of two stunning diamonds. In the mid eighteenth century several countries were competing for territory in India in what is known as the Karnad wars during this time. A French soldier abandoned his post and deserted his unit going under the radar. He found a job near the town of three wrong as he worked. He listened to the locals. Speak of the temple and the idol. -taining the precious jewels. This Frenchman's desire was sparked any knew he had to steal the diamonds. But this would be a most impossible mission. Why because only Hindus were allowed in the temple and the statue remained in a sacred space several enclosures deep so the Frenchman converted to Hinduism and gain the trust of several priests. Who worked in the temple? Eventually he gained access inside and as he continued to prove his devotion he was given the task of Guardian to the Central Shrine. Not long after he began serving. They're a storm struck the land and the Frenchman found himself alone inside the temple. He saw his window of opportunity. He approached the statue stared up at the gleaming. Diamond is and began to pry one from. It's socket until it came free after this. He must have gotten scared because instead of prying out the other diamond. The Frenchman fled. He climbed the temple. Walls managed to swim across a river and navigated the nearby jungles until he reached the city of Madras there. He quickly sold the diamond to a British Sea. Captain for much less than it was worth probably so he could get out of the area quickly with some money in his pocket and maybe he was afraid of possible curse. It was rumored to carry after that. The diamond was sold several times by different merchants until it was purchased by a man named Shaw Friis. He was an Armenian diamond dealer. Living in Amsterdam the year was seventeen. Sixty eight twenty one years after the great mogul disappeared following the deer. Shah's assassination count Gregory Gregoria. Vich Orlov bought the diamond from SCHAAF. Ross in Amsterdam like the Frenchman or love to was on a mission but instead of stealing a jewel he was looking to steal back a heart. The heart of Catherine the great born in Prussia in seventeen twenty nine and originally called Sophie Catherine was the daughter of a German prince who didn't have much money to his name but what he lacked in funds he hadn't connections and Catherine was married off to Peter the third of the Romanov dynasty in Seventeen forty-five hardly match made in heaven. The two couldn't stand each other. Peter inherited the throne in seventeen sixty two but he was strongly disliked by his people including his wife who decided to take a lover Count Orlov. They began an affair and with the help of a secret group of conspirators planned the assassination of her husband. Peter once the assassination was carried out in seventeen sixty two catherine became empress. The throne was hers. It was a new horizon involving new responsibilities and new desires or loft became a thing of the past for her. She had her eyes set on new suitors. Orlov was crushed. He was determined to win Catherine back. And that's what led him to the jeweler named shoppers. Who showed him? The stunning rose cut diamond. He bought it immediately and had it sent to Catherine while she accepted the diamond with much delight. She didn't rekindle her romance with. Olaf but she did shower him with lavish gifts as she did all her lovers. That was the end of their story. But not the end of the diamonds it was placed in the imperial sceptre. A metal rod wielded by the person in power the diamond remains in the sceptre which is displayed in the diamond. Find in the Kremlin Museum in Russia. Now there are a number of reasons why some historians have claimed this diamond. Could be the great mogul I is the striking similarity between the ARL off and the drawing done by Bob. Tease Tavernier back in sixteen sixty five. Both diamonds have the same half egg shape. Both arose cut stones with similar facets and their collaring both diamonds are described as white with a hint of the slightest blue. But there's a specific detail that seems to really intrigued. Historians Tavernier wrote about it saying there was a slight crack and flaw at the bottom of the great mogul. They're also happens to be a slight indentation at the base of the Orlov. That could be this very flaw. The weight of the Orlov is about one hundred and ninety carrots slightly more than the Kohinoor was when it first came to England however neither diamond matches the supposed weight of the great mogul various jewel experts and historians have debated whether the great mogul might have taken on a new identity following the chaos of war yet. There's another theory that has been tossed around that. The Great Mogul Wisconsin to several smaller pieces and all those pieces went their separate ways. While this is possible it seems as though whoever came into possession of the great mogul would want to preserve its grandiosity to maintain its value. Which leaves us with the likely scenario that the great mogul adopted a new name and is hiding in plain sight. The question is which name did it take? I think it makes the most sense that the great mogul became the Kohinoor. Nadir's Shaw who acquired the great mogul after defeating Muhammad Shah called it the co in nor because it reminded him of a mountain of light also. When drawings were done of the Kohinoor in England it had a similar diameter. To the great mogul when drawn by Jean Baptiste. Tavernier some good points. But I have to say. I think it's a stronger possibility that it became the Orlov. I say this because of the color the Kohinoor is simply a white diamond noticeable bluish tinge the Orlov has that blue color attributed to the great mogul. The diamonds also share the unusual rose cut and the Orlov diamond closely resembles Tavernier's drawing. Well I guess we have to acknowledge that. There's no definitive answer. But I will say this. If you'll recall the great mogul dynasty supposedly carried with it occurs that its owner would face terrible misfortune if the owner was a man but any female owner would be immune to the. Kerr's and actually prosper. If we look back at the history of the Kohinoor especially the female leaders wore it we see a long line of British women surviving and Thriving Queen Victoria Queen. Alexandra Queen Mary the Queen Mother and even though she doesn't wear it the diamonds current owner Queen Elizabeth. The second is the longest reigning monarch since Queen Victoria. So if you believe the two diamonds are one and the same. You're admitting that you buy into the legend of its curse. I guess I am Yes. Well whatever the true identity of the great mogul is. Now we know the great mogul in all its brilliance. Despite its so called imperfections sparked greed it fed into human hubris. It was one of the most coveted rewards in the spoils of war. It saw many wars deaths and assassinations through it sometimes. Tragic always tense history. The great mogul diamond has probably stood witness to more than we can even imagine. Thanks for tuning in to gone. If you WANNA find more episodes or any of par casts other podcasts you can find us on apple podcast stitcher. Google play cast box tune in your favorite podcast directory. Many of you have asked us how you can help the show. If you enjoy the show the best way you can do that is to leave. A five star review. You can also tell us your theories on facebook and Instagram at podcast on twitter at podcast network or at PODCAST DOT com. We'll be back in two weeks with another episode. Just because it's gone doesn't mean it can't be found gone was created by Max Cutler is a production of cutler media and is part of the podcast network it is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro. Paul Molitor Maggie Admire and Carly Madden Gun is written by Jessica Malo and Stars Molly Brandenburg and Richard Rosner.

Kohinoor Jean Baptiste Tavernier India Diamond Emperor Muhammad Shah Emperor Shah Jehan Mohammad Shah England Vich Orlov Muhammed Delhi Count Orlov Karnal Shaw Nadir Queen Victoria John Lawrence Ranjit Singh Sophie Catherine Queen Elizabeth
Games & Gamers

Baseball Tonight with Buster Olney

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Games & Gamers

"Great news. There's a quick way. You can save money. Switch to Geico. Geico could help you get great coverage at a great price. And it only takes fifteen minutes to see if you could save fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Go to Geico dot com today and see how much you could save. These baseball tonight the podcast. This is the baseball tonight podcast for Tuesday March nineteenth two thousand nineteen. I'm BUSTER only producer everyday is Josh macrey. Josh question for as we start the show today if you were stranded on a weirdly outfitted desert island or you in the clubhouse of a non contender in late September. Okay. What would be your video game of choice? NFL two K two thousand five. Okay. I get it not going old school with anything. See that is kind of old school bus terming. We're looking at almost fifteen years ago. Now, I'm talking about really old school. I'm talking about like pacman and Gallagher strikes. I just turned thirty two. Okay. So I grew up revenue games in the late nineties into the early two thousands NFL K two thousand five is a is. Yeah, that's an old school. Yeah. Okay. Well, so what is pacman and Gallagher. What would you just old prehistoric? There you go. We're gonna be talking about that today with boop Shaam because there's a lot of conversation about video games in club houses during games. So news notes as we get started the Yankees agreed to a minor league deal with left-hander GIO Gonzalez. He actually will start the year off the roster. He has an opt out on April. Twenty V doesn't progress enough in the organization to his liking. He could walk away from the deal. If he's added to the major league roster. He would get three million dollars. But there's no risk in this for the Yankees. And we'll be talking about that another bad deal in my opinion for Scott Boris client Clayton Kershaw won't be ready for the dodgers opener. We kind of knew that last month when he had these initial problems with the shoulders, but Dave Roberts made that official in talking with reporters on Monday. It's good to see this report Goldschmidt of the cardinals. Goldsmith man with it dry there. It is at the wall. I as a Saint Louis cardinal. Dan mcglaughlin on the cardinals television network with that call. Yeah. I home run for Paul Goldschmidt in spring training. Our conversation yesterday with their gold covers the cardinals for the Saint Louis post dispatch may declare they're looking start playing a little better because they they've gotten off to some slow starts offensively within that lineup. Each row. Suzuki will be in the Mariners opening day lineup Wednesday for the first regular season game of two thousand nineteen that of course, will be played in Tokyo each euro forty five years old he played in an exhibition game on Monday mayday. Great throw. Here's what it sounded. Like in Japanese. Hukou. Tonight. The wall. Mortgage on. Getting ready. The pitch set. On you lifted. Okay. Now. Oh that was great. Yeah. And it translates directly BUSTER to what a throw what a throw and it was great throw from right field that there'd based. But you know, my daughter's been taking Japanese the last five years, I've never wanted to have her home. She's in college. Now more than this morning when I was watching that replay. I'd love to know what what they were saying, I told you what they're saying BUSTER, they said health, Rome. Yeah. Okay. We'll see. Boop. Shelby greasy view when we talked to him about that throw in about the Japanese translation Red Sox second basement doesn't drill. Start the season on the injured list. Alex Cora made that announcement in speaking with reporters on Monday doesn't enjoy. It was pretty I want to say don't want to say defiant, but he made his opinion clear. He said they're afraid and he feels like he's ready. The Braves announced that Julio Tehran will start opening day against Bryce Harper. In the Phillies manager Brian snicker made that announcement on Monday and Michael Conforto. Continues with his strong spring. One way back to my Contorno. Is that a great spring? That s and why Michael Conforto has been red hots. And we'll be talking with Michael Conforto. We expect for the podcast on Wednesday. Plus, we'll have Andrew mccutchen on the podcast on Wednesday today. We've got Marcus semi-in. We've got Carlos Correa. We've got the legend. Boop Shabi, Sarah Lang's. Let's get to it. The man. Voice whilst. Gin. Shembe on baseball tonight. Buksh shabby the legend play by play man for ESPN and boo the topic of the day video games. What do you think? You know, I have I feel like old guy. But even in my, you know, in my heyday as a kid, I was never that into it. I you know, I I played some Atari when I was young. I liked the hand held Mattel football. Maybe a little in television. But I never like in college got into like Sega or any of that stuff for onward with PlayStation. And I certainly have no idea about fortnight. So if that doesn't make me sound like a thousand years old, I don't know. What does? Yeah. I'm I'm really old because I'm fully familiar with four night because my fourteen year old plays it way too much, and we have constant battles about how to deal with that. And the reason why I'm asking you the question, of course, is because within the context of conversation in within major league baseball video games are on the front burner. Bluejays manager Charlie Montoya came out and told her. Porters on Monday that the his team now has a new clubhouse rule when video games will be cut off at a certain time before opening pitch reports up in Toronto that Russell Morton. Sometimes we'd play perhaps during games Jeff pass. And of course, wrote a piece on ESPN dot com yesterday, the Carlos Santana who has was with the Phillies last year since treated the Indians was so frustrated by the practice of players playing video games some during games that he actually smashed some equipment in the last week of the season last year. This is one of those ones where when you hear about it. You're like, oh, man that shouldn't be an issue. Like, it shouldn't be an issue in the workplace Josh about whether or not you playing video games during the course of work. But you know, that it is because you, and I go into club houses and guys are playing this a lot, and it kind of goes back to the old chicken and beer thing that we saw with the Red Sox. What was it almost a decade ago? Yeah. During the course of a long season. You guys get bored guy started doing other things. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, it's a bad. Look, I would say they're probably doing it less in the clubhouses where they're winning and you know, throw their gas on the fire. Let's not forget that it was all but conceded that David price went on the disabled list because of carpal tunnel to some extent from playing fortnight. So like, you know, you have that aspect as well. I just think it, you know, it ties in it's it's something that these guys do they do it a lot. They do it in their free time. But you know, again when you're when you're at work, you're at work. And I think that you know, I think you've gotta be careful with with that. I think, you know, making clear that this is this is not fun time. It's worth time. What's that? Sorry. Hold on. Okay. Oh, man. And I gotta believe I Texas a managers today. They said you have any rules regarding video games for your teams. And I haven't gotten response booed and yet, and I think part of the reason why because the managers are probably embarrassed for the players that they even have to think about that. Yes. Because I I would be in that. That's definitely a situation where you would love it if I suspect like if Cisse about these on the team, there's no players playing video games back in the clubhouse. You know? Aaron judge is on the team. There's nobody back in the clubhouse playing video games. I think it really probably comes down to the player leadership as to whether or not that's Dell with. I would agree. You know, under the Red Sox clubhouse, if someone you know was was doing JD Martinez will probably wander and it'd be like the track man. I don't like I I think that it depends on it depends on the team, by the way. Josh, you're not free of being a in this either that when it came time for us to make the joke, and it was hey, come up with generic video game sound effects you break out Ron her or Donkey Kong from nineteen eighty seven. It was Morio. It was Marty or Maurya whatever. Like, you're not off the hook. Yeah. And I asked him at the outset of the show which game he likes to play. And he said he's old school two thousand five Madden. And I'm like, wait a second. But I like like, you know Gallagher, of course, had pacman, and he his view was that's all prehistoric. Right. And so then came out with a brushwork music right there. No, no exact well, I mean old. School is like everybody thinks of old school is when they're in like early high school late middle school. That's what it was for me. Yeah. Early high school for me is like back in the seventies. When captain into Neo or popular music. Before we move on for managers, boo. I just did you happen to see the video of our good friend Terry Francona jumping out of the plane that moves posted yesterday. Good idea. The guy with the heart issue is jumping out of a plane. Like, I'm texting him. What are you doing? But I loved it. He's he's mad. He he is kind. He's the best. I I every time we get to see it's it's it's fun. And yeah, maybe left put a smile on my face. Yeah. And when I texted I texted him as well like how did that come about any city? He'd bumped into some navy seals while he was swimming. I'm sure he's not doing the same thing that they were and this came up about jumping out of a plane, and so he found himself going out of a planet. And I gotta say among all the people who've done that he looks the most petrified as he's dropping than anyone. I've ever seen. What do you think book? Yeah. And especially when they pulled the shoot he was he was almost as if he was he was surprised that that was going to be an outcome. When they actually pulled the parachute. It seemed as though that caught him off guard. Yeah. His text back to me was like I'm such a dummy for for doing that. Anyway, he had fun. And he thanked the the folks that he jumped with and he tried to convince some of the other staffers to do it. And he joked to reporters that Brad mills as bench coach he noticed that. He moved news office, assuming that Tito was not going to make it through that whole process of jumping out of the plane yesterday in Japan they had an exhibition game each who was in right field. Given listen book. The mole get in Boston. On the day. On this. What? You did a couple of this. Shuping? So each row catches a fly ball throws third. Boo gear and experience play by play guy. Tell us what they were telling us. Wish I could say, I know I like, otherwise, I love their work. Oh, yeah. That that was great. It was incredible. It what will you know? It was really cool is I don't know whether you on Twitter, it really if I saw a bunch of different, you know, former big leaguers just talking about what a clinic that was in terms of the way you made the throw and just marveling at at all of it. And how beautiful it was. It was an amazing three. Yeah. It was a great threat reminded me again to go old school Dwight Evans back in the day used to run and set himself into throws like that each row doing the same. And he just loved the excitement there. We were having a conversation the podcast yesterday about whether any player could go back to his home country slash hometown. And get that sort of response. I can't imagine anyone getting a greater response and what each has gotten this week. And that's really. Cool. I can't wait for Wednesday to hear you know, here are in see our broadcast of that game. Speaking of old school. This was from a Super Bowl. Give a listen book. The safety to start. This was ailing Mosul. Eighteen moving toward the smell. Safety. Yeah. That was Joe bug from Fox Sports on s- Super Bowl, forty eight. That was Peyton Manning snapped over said it was a safety threw two interceptions. The first half of that game. Denver lost forty three day to disaster for one of the all time greats which is a roundabout ways. Boop for me to get into a conversation about the winner of Scott bores, who's one of the I mean, let's face it. He's arguably the greatest agent of all time with the deals that he's put together record set all over the place. Bryce Harper's deal. This winter three hundred thirty million dollars that set a new record, man. He's had a rough winter. And the latest example of it GIO Gonzalez another late signing he gets a minor league deal with the Yankees. He actually has to make the team before he gets the three million dollars in the major league portion of that he could opt out of the deal on April. Twentieth. I to me I can't figure out why he wouldn't have come off the board in December or January early February to give them a chance to make. You know to be on a roster to be part of a team to give them a full spring training rather than being behind Carlos Gonzales earlier this week one year two million dollars on a minor league deal. Again, he has to actually be promoted by the unions to get that money. I don't know why he wasn't off the board much earlier in the wintertime Marlene Gonzales, we talked about two years and twenty one million dollars. Another bores client. You talk to their agents they in club executives. They thought that he would get at least a three year deal. He didn't come close to getting that Martine Maldonado turned down a two year. Twelve million dollar offer again responded or whatever semantics that we're going to put in this thing. The Astros wanted to sign him due to your twelve million dollar deal that didn't get executed about ten days ago. He gets one year and two and a half million dollars for the Kansas City Royals. We know Dallas kaikal is still out there. Wow. It's been a tough time for one of the all-time. Great agents book. Yeah. I I think before I comment on it. I I feel like you're probably a little more connected. I would ask you what if you spoken to him one? Is he said, or what do you think he would say in all honesty about how it's gone specific to his clients the job he's done and how much culpability does he thinks he has well the last couple of years he's talked about the markets. Right. And because we saw a similar thing happened with a lot of his clients last year that the markets with the teams and the tanking and the club's not spending. But I don't think that really applies to some of these guys. Like, there definitely was interested in Marlin Gonzales, you know, back in December. I talked to teams that basically at that point. Yeah, they're looking for a guy like when Gonzales, but with Scott told teams was that he was looking for a deal Benz overstock deal something north of that for years, you know, fifty five. To sixty million dollars and two teams heard that and they moved on. That's what happened with Dallas. Kyko GIO Gonzalez. When teams talked to with Scott about him. He was talking about it. At least what GIO may last year twelve million dollars and teams simply just moved on. Clearly, I think a lot of these guys when you look at GIO Gonzalez. The, you know, close for me would be Wade Miley another left-hander over thirty years old. I think it was back in late January early February. He took a one year deal with the Astros for four million dollars as soon as I saw that. I'm like, okay. Well, that's kinda where Geos looking at Easter three years old. I'm sure he could get something comparable to that in that Tutu before million dollar range. And instead, no he's way behind he's way behind Martinez was way behind Martine Maldonado way behind. I think that Scott just needs to adjust strategy and work to get these guys off the board. Earlier. What do you think I agree with that part, especially the you know, the as opposed to waiting it out? I think that he he probably needs to be looking at, you know, the beginning of the process seeing what teams or interested and pushing on those teams as opposed to look, I think Scott to general idea my sense than the outside is he's afraid this probably with a little more leaning a little more art than science. And this thing has gotten a lot more towards science. You know, what I mean that it's that he likes to create the narrative of like, you know, five years ago, he was still trying to do the, you know for the big free agent, or even you know, this guy's a franchise player. And and and and like most of these young GM's are like beat it with that. They're not they're not gonna get sucked in. And I my sense is this anecdote will just think. That there's less. There's less accessible ownership which is how he had done a lot of his deals in the past. So now, I just think that the path for him to get some of these deals done isn't there? But he's I don't know appeal like. He definitely needs to make an adjustment. And they they've got a they've gotta figure some stuff out there. Because this is the way these guys are doing business, and you know, I I don't I mean, we can debate on a totally different conversation. Whether it's good for the game and the discipline of we're productive for ninety two wins or division. It'll take ninety wins to win the division. We're good. And they just stay locked in on that discipline like we can talk about another conversation about whether that's good for the sport and it cetera. But specific to the way Scott's approaching things he's got to change. Yeah. Yeah. And look we've talked about this repeatedly on the podcast, and I'll tell you why. Because it's one of the most talked about things in the industry right now. How a lot of Scots clients have not done. Well this month in how they wind up taking these deals for a lot less than what they were perceived taking I. You know, for some reason it's just not discussed by a lot of reporters and columnists to me in just watching this play out book. It's pretty simple. It's like watching an all star pitcher posted a sixty IRA. It is what it is. And it's it's a fact so many of these unsigned guys Scott's clients and say, he's absolutely one of the greats and to your point about how general managers doing this. I had one GM put it as his invest as I've heard this winter when he said, I place a value on the player. He said we place value on the player. He's talking about his team's analytics department, and if they don't want to sign for that, then I'm not emotional about it. I move on. And I look at the next player, and that's what Scott's working with. And if you have a Bryce Harper, and you get an owner who's emotionally involved like John Middleton. You know, what you set a record you get to three hundred thirty million dollar deal, and you come up with a structure that puts you in an amazing place. And that's what Scott's done well in the past. But when it. Comes to. I, you know, second third tier players Amaro in Gonzales Martine Maldonado Carlos Gonzales, the Thirty-three-year-old GIO Gonzalez. They're just gonna most teams are just going to put a value on those guys. And if if Scott doesn't agree then they're just going to move on. Yeah. It's that clinical it really is. I you know, what? Again, we debate the merit of that approach. But I would say that that's that's a, you know, fairly standard. So I I it's it's it's definitely something. I think that he's giving me do adjust. Right. I want to ask you about strengths schedule stuff. I love looking at this. I think you probably think it's a little silly. If I remember correctly from past conversations, but when you look at a team like he's coming out with you misremembered, you misremembered. I do not right Billy. I, you know. That's right. I can I confused you Tim cartoon and he thinks it's really silly in a lot of players find it to be silly. But you and I both know front offices like to look at it the Yankees, for example, they jump out at you their first nine games this year, six of those against the Orioles three those or against the Detroit Tigers. So they're in a position now where they could overcome some of these injuries. They've had early on by starting getting out of the gates Greif thirteen the first fifty games boob or against the Orioles. The Mets and nationals. They played thirteen times by may twenty third. Think about that. If you're a hitter in one of those two lineups emits or nationals. You're looking at thirteen games with the Strasberg's and Scherzer's and corbin's and dig roms and syndergaards Zach wheelers. That's really tough to how much do you like the strength of schedule stuff early? I mean, look, I think that it. I'll tell you the thing is it doesn't always play out the way baseball's weird the difference. The biggest separator in baseball in my opinion between basketball and football. Is that the difference between the good teams bad teams is less? It's the nature of the sport. But it that's the difference between those sports. And so it doesn't factor in quite as much. And yet you still you still need to beat up on the turns my love to say that. I think I just did. I, you know, I said dumb you. Yes. So I if if you have bad teams, you know, I I guess the better way to put it would be available wins. You know, like, I you you've gotta get the available wins. So like for the Yankees, you know, in those first fifty against the Orioles, you know, thirteen games. I mean, you got to you got to win. Nine of them. Right. And then you gotta win nine like minimum to go with nine of them. So at least nine of like, yeah. So it's I just I it's it's I don't think it's insignificant. I don't it doesn't always play out that way. But it looked at you know, if over the course of the Susan. Rather played a bad teams in the good teams. I mean, how's that for hard hitting analysis? But that's the reality. You're gonna lose to the bad teams. But I've just on. I don't think it's something who you're playing is not something that should be smells. No, not at all. I mean, that's how we can sit here today. And know that the Cleveland Indians for all the words they have on their roster. They're heavy favorites to win that division because they're playing probably the weakest division in baseball your first broadcast. This year will be the dodgers against the Diamondbacks. Dave Roberts came out and made it official on Monday said Clayton Kershaw will not be ready kinda knew that was the case. We kind of knew that Walker. Bueller wasn't going to be ready? But he made this announcement and Bugai just had a big shrug my shoulders. They don't think it's that big of a deal for the dodgers. Yeah. I think you know, and in a similar tastes as far as as far as Severino is concerned, you know, as long as as it's not quite the same. But as long as you can get to a place where you. And they come back. How can you ever know? But that that you know, they'll be in a good spot. It'll be fine. I I mean, I think even more. So with the way, you know, that the dodgers have have really really emphasized depth and putting together, you know, one reliance on one forty on your I mean, they've basically, you know last year, but I don't think they had a starter throw one hundred seventy five innings, and they they are sitting there looking at their team as they go into the year, and they're really more looking at it like gather gonna be probably eight or nine guys they're going gonna make starch for us this year. You know what I mean? So it's gonna be getting the season. You know, like when they open camp they're sitting there saying is Ross going gonna be in our rotation. I'm talking about when they opened ten and they're saying probably not how many starts do you think restaurant than we'll get eighteen twenty eight? So they they're they're they're already looking at it. So it's just it's the way that it's the way it is the sport is right now. And I mean, it makes a lot of sense. That's for sure. Speaking of depth. I didn't give you a chance to weigh in on Sunday with the Yankees for the Yankees. There's absolutely no risk here. Right. You bring him into camp. He's see what you see you see if he can catch up as I mentioned he's got an opt out on April twentieth. So if he hasn't been promoted the big leagues by then he is not paternity to go elsewhere. But I don't think that from the perspective. It's why not right. I would agree. Why not I like if if I were to give you my you know, again, I I would put my. You know, if I were to sit there, and and and really think about it. I don't love a guy who's been pitching in the NFL and then a tiny bit yet L central with the trends going in the wrong direction. And and didn't look great. As a brewer, I don't know that I that. I feel great about how that will will turn out that he will have a ton of success for that. But yes, the the upside is is there if it does it works in weapons have nothing glue zero to lose, and let me make this very clear, I loved you Gonzales. He's one of the best people that you had to meet in the game super nice, but a player in this particular situation where he's behind by five weeks dropped into a camp has to prove himself over the course of a month as you mentioned thirty three years old his stuff is down. He's this is not a good situation for him to be in. Like I could see him because he's got a high level of accountability. He wants to do. Well, really putting a lot of pressure on himself. And it was kind of this situation dragged out within this spring. That was what I thought of like get that guy into a camp. Get signed get pitching. Yeah. I'm with you. I it's it's not it's not a great situation for him. That's that is for sure. So I, you know, but again, they need that. And so that they've added period. Right book. Thanks for doing this, by the way, I wanna bet with Josh. Because I told him before we start. I said I bet you boobs really video game guy. And Josh is like, I don't know. He's underrated. You know? Yeah. There you go. I say were of video game guy boot. But I said, I I wouldn't be so sure that's all. Three shit. Welcome. Let me tell you about Pete who loved hockey and always wanted to play in the NHL Pete played since he was three and begged his mom to let him stay on the ice by some nights. He even slept in his hockey skates. Pete practice, then practiced unto one day when he was forty seven Pete realized he just wasn't that good. So he threw his skates in the trash. But then he heard how DIKO proud partner of NHL good save money on car insurance. So he switched and saved a bunch. So it all worked out numbers game. Sarah Lang's is a reporter and a producer frame LB dot com, and Sarah we start with this question of the day in light of the the news and announcements that were coming out yesterday video games. Do you have a favorite video game? I am the worst person for this. I'm awful awful at video games. Like, I have tried. I have tried. I tried CPA the soccer one all my friends played in college. I have tried. Mario things. I am awful. So I do not have a favorite one of my favorite one is not playing them. Well, what's the problem with video games? I think it's the coordination. I don't have a lot of. Even on video games. So you don't have to do the actual thing. It's just too much for me. Okay. What video game? Would you love to be great at it? Sounds like pizza. Yeah. I think I just because my friends have played that and they all still play it like even as real adults out of college. So it must be intriguing. It seems like it is right. We can't play here. But we can't play the numbers game. Let's get to it. Number three zero one one wine. Has done it. He has it four thousand hits the third player in major league history to have four thousand hits. That was Joan sterling WCBS. Go ahead. Sarah three is forty five in one forty nine. That's how many years forty five days. One hundred forty nine old each euro will be when he starts for the Mariners Japan on opening down Wednesday that will make him the second oldest position player to start on opening day. And I'm sure you guys could guess the only one older it was Julio Franco at forty five years in two hundred twenty seven days old in two thousand four for the Braves overall each rose one of seven different players to start on an opening day at forty five years old or older the five pitchers Nolan. Ryan Charlie huff twice Phil negro. Tommy, John and Jack Quinn, and I thought Jack wins is really fun. So he was forty seven years old in nineteen thirty one when he did it it ended up being the final start of his career. But he pitched until he was fifty it was just all in relief number two. Lonzo it's a high fly ball deep to right? It's tailored for the quarter. And that ball is gone. It slips over the fence down near the right field line. And fetal on Joe goes to the opposite field hitting tailing. Two run Homer off of Henderson Alvarez and the Mets a little bit closer at seven to five. That cough mess. NY? Number two is four. That's how many home runs pita Lonzo has this spring. You just heard one of them. There's been a lot of talk about his deserving to make the team may be also the conversations we hear about service times. So I got curious about guys hit four home runs in Mets camp spring training steps. Go back to two thousand six and I spent my morning in them yesterday. So since two thousand six eighteen minutes prior to twenty nineteen has hit four home runs in a single spring training, all but three of them made that year's opening day roster. The only ones not to were Johnny mono in two thousand fifteen Chris Carter in two thousand ten and Amir Santos in two thousand nine. So that's two third catchers. And then Chris Carter not the Cris Carter, you're thinking and in case Alonzo hits another all six minutes players to hit at least five home runs in a single spring in that span have made the opening day roster. Number one. Harper high in the air to center going back into your. Garon? Bryce, Harper six to Washington, and he's driven and five of them their career grand slam his second against Julio Tehran. Bob carpenter with that call on Massin and number one is eight that's how many career home runs. New Philly Bryce Harper has against Julio Tehran. You just heard one of them and Tehran was named Braves opening day starter yesterday now before we get old deeper into that we can give Tehran his do. It's his sixth straight opening day start which ties warrants fun for the franchise's modern era record for consecutive opening day starts but back to that number eight those eight home runs. Our Harper's most home runs against any pitcher, and the most Tehran has allowed to any hitter. And a further reason that Phillies fans should probably go sit in the outfield on opening day. Harper always starts fast out of the gate. He has five opening day home runs, which is tied for the most among active players and three oh nine batting average and one oh five five in March and April in his career as for the subsequent. Months to seventy three and eight seventy. You know, what's interesting about it is is that the Braves in choosing their starters for that opening series are looking at the fact that the Phillies lineup is generally so stacked with right handers. But Bryce Harper. Of course, now becomes the exception is that really powerful left handed hitter. So it's it's interesting that you pick that out because that's certainly in the mind of the Braves staff. Sarah, I wanted to ask you about strength of schedule stuff because we just talked about it with boob. Shabby, you know, for example, your Mets play the nationals thirteen times in like the first month and a half view look at that stuff. 'cause I always find that stuff fascinating. When you evaluate things like how the Yankees will get out of the gate this year against such an incredibly soft schedule. Oh, for sure I always look at, you know, the April or March and April schedule and then September schedule because the other thing you get is you get a team that like seems like they're cruising. And then all of a sudden they have to play that division rival like ten times in September. Whereas other times like it's in Gloucester. The Red Sox didn't play again after septem-. I either last year the year before so I think it's really important. I think it's important for the mentality of these teams. You know, you don't have to come strong out the gate, if you have maybe some of those weaker interleague series, which some teams have and whatever else. The Mets and nationals playing each other. So many times I can imagine the hitters on those teams. It'd be like anof uncle of with the whole shirts or indeed grom and Syndergaard in Wheeler in Strasbourg, Patrick Corbin. It's going to be a slow start for a lot of those guys, by the way before you go. We're going to be talking with your guy. Michael conforto. What do you think we should ask them about Sarah? That is three straight Houston home run in three straight games. Ask him about if he's ever done that in the majors. I don't know if the top of my head, but I can look it up and let you know. But. Yeah. He's on fire. He looks like he's ready to break out. Sarah, thanks for doing this. Thanks so much for having me about star. We've been going from camp to camp doing rapid fires with players. Here's auto Peres speaking with Carlos Correa. And then after that you have Markelle semi-in shortstop for the Oakland Athletics. Speaking with art Jesse Rogers give a listen the keys the giving back to the mountain top. The keys just to stay healthy. If we stay healthy as a team. I don't think there's more talent out there than they want in our clubhouse last year. We had a tough break. I love guys were hurt this year. We're held the ready to go. So for me, the keys stays healthy. We we go back on top. Who was the stroz MVP the MVP of the Astros. Jose Jose too consistent for so many years. He's done this for six years and has been consistent every single year and BP batting champion, silver slugger, skull gloves, every single award that you can imagine. He he owns so he's very valuable for this team. What was your favorite part of playing little league baseball my fair powerplant inter league baseball was this how many fun and playing and playing the game. You know, you assess a kid to school in the field and try to homers and may great plays mutating the big leaguers that they used to follow. And for me that was the best part with joy most from watching the Little League World series. What if I don't watch it? Everybody every clubhouse. Enjoy the most is when when a hitter hits a home run and in the pitcher celebrates he's like, oh my God. I enjoy it. This is just having fun, man. No matter what happens somebody if somebody hasn't Homer of you. They're always having a good time. What's the first thing that comes to your mind when I mentioned the name Jackie Robinson's. Jackie robinson. You mentioned Eddie rowing soon. So me immediately that I'm playing baseball too. Because of him, you know, he he broke so many barriers out there. And and he paved the way for also play these beautiful game. So we're for thankful favorite to watch. And major league baseball right now. Now Dow might trout I'm lucky enough to be in the same division, and and and wash away what he he's doing every single day since impressive is so consistent. He's always the best player in the world. It probably retires while the best players who are play this game. So just fun to watch just to let you guys though, we were delayed because it's like hold on the band's hitting this. So we had to watch Tronto west heads doubles and some filters. At least favorite pitcher to face. Move out say max sherzer even though how facing regular season facing train training a couple of times, his pretty tough strain training. I came in during the regular season. You could steal one players tool from the five tool. Bucket speed power who contact our defense defense. What player would that be an what tool would it be? You know in the power. I got to. I gotta go hand eye coordination that contact to and the power of Joey Gallo, that'd be a great combo right there, regardless power. Their answer on the team. I gotta go with me on that one and sound I can take on everybody then saying the clubhouse Hanes also. But down the hip hop. Whatever you want them. Bo boom, boom, boom area. Area. Breath singer of the team Messinger, Jose backstreet, boys. We all know that. He started for us. Yeah. Favorite road city. And I go we Boston Boston London tradition. The ballpark enough that chopping out there enough food love everything on Boston. The next question was the best road stadium. Yeah. Boston Fenway park, the shift love it or banning. If I was I left him to hit her. I'll hate it. I'm not I left him hit on the right hand the hitter. So if they shift me to pull style love to see that every single time, so I'm gonna take grumbled sticking base. But I think it'd be better for the league. If we if any had the shift and just play nice old school baseball, and you know, nine drives back to the middle of being back to being single's. Instead of outs. Buck stop reading we put we're going to have fun with us. So let you know about eighty. Five eighty five ninety percent, don't even know. V five Pete. Fielding. That's really the pitcher trite independent pitchers. Moba was wasn't fielding independent pitching fielding independent pitching. Good. That's home for good. Woke up. And wins. My right. Walks now. Wins. I'm betting Arizona. Did on base of jozy are. Who has its own you cover in defense name? But I know is how far you of hasn't far you move to grumble ultimate zone rating produce w artsy. Plus. Wait it runs created. Let me go a position player. That somebody told us that you enough was about to vet said, you and bregman we'd get the toppings on your perfect consider this pepperoni. That's it. Plain and simple. Keep it real. What celebrity would play you in a movie? Chris pratt. If you could have one superpower, what would it be fly absolutely favorite off date? Hobby sleep and watch movies. Guilty pleasure. Guilty pleasure. I know what it is quasi. What's up? He's got shoes. Shoes through. He caught me. What's the best aren't about playing with Matt Chapman? Ooh. Yeah. Get a nice view of all the plays. He makes he hits the ball harder than anyone. I've seen offensively. And you know, he's he's a great athlete. So it's fun to watch him. The ace surprise lead people asked you what's that what's the vibe going into this year might be a little bit more targeted? Now from other teams, they kind of know you guys. I mean, we just want to get out to a good start. We've finished so strong last year. And we started off slow, and we still had a great year. So I think that's what we need to do to catch. Houston. Win the division this year. What's the most exciting thing about playing on this as team for me? It's playing at home. We we create our own energy. We we have great clubhouse. We all have a good time on and off the field. What's the first thing that comes to mind when when I say Jackie Robinson? He was the most courageous baseball player to play the game. And what's that has had an impact on you die like in knowing that will. Yeah. I mean as an African American you just think about the opportunities that personally that that I have to play this game. People look at me differently than they looked at him or or other players in the past in that time. You're going to Japan later this month, two games. What's that mean to you to be able to go over there represent the Oakland A's baseball, everything is soon be fun? I think that the crowd may be on Seattle side a little bit more with some of their personnel. But you know, we've had a lot of support from the Japanese media and his people who've come into our camp to talk to us. So it's been very very welcoming. What do you hope to take away from the experience when you're over there? Hopefully to win says the most important part is those are those are regular season games division games. And that's that's the main focus. Okay. Some fun stuff. Who's your favorite player to watch right now? Not on your team. It's a good one. I think Linda. And you can expand on these answers or not doesn't least favourite pitcher to face. Dell and batons is because he's he's a monster out there, and he throws more sliders and fastballs yet he throws a hundred miles an hour. Steal one players tool. What would it be? Probably. Somebody's power. I mean, I guess Chris Davis is power. We've had that answer a few times best dancer on the team or most entertaining. Chad pender. He's he's got some nice moves. Three or four people incident. Best singer on the team. Wow. Think Pender might have that to get entertainer favourite road city. Chicago played there as a home player, but just I enjoy dining there. And it's a beautiful city when the weather's nice favorite road stadium to play Fenway. Just the the classic field. The fans are the tough on you. But if you do well there, it's it's nice to quiet them now shift love it or bandit. I love it when we're on defense. But you know, I think it should stay. All right. So named that sabermetrics stat, do you know, what v stands for F, I p? I think that's. Fielding independent pitching or something separate it is right. That's the first hitter to get a pitching staff. Do you know what wo-, but means WNBA? Is that the same as X? Woah. I don't think it's exit velocity in launch angle in which you're expected to do based on those might be wrong weighted on base average close enough. Yeah. Do you know what you use r means? Ultimate zone rating. Excellent last one W R C. Plus waited runs created plus. I didn't explain them. Trust the plano, Mercedes. Look the same. That was great off the field favorite pizza toppings. Chicken and spinach. What's celebrity would play you in a movie Will Smith. If you could have one superpower, what would probably fly just in case I needed escape quickly. What's guilty pleasure? Something you like to dull gin, you know. I love sweets ice cream. You know, I take my kids outside. I scream mostly for me. Now. That's supposed to let what's your favorite social media. Counter foul on. I'm not a big social media guy. I enjoy you know, just sports teams sports leagues Bleacher tweets key Jones up first at t n j six twenty nine wants to know are the Marlins the only team in the National League with no chance at a playoff appearance this season. I guess no chance zero chance I kinda would put areas zone net category. They're rebuilding. They traded Paul Goldschmidt. If during the year, they have an opportunity to dump at least some of the money in the contract that cranky. I think they would do that. I I don't think they're really working to to make the postseason this year. Like the Padres. I don't think they're gonna come close to making the playoffs. But it's possible. I think the same thing is true with the Cincinnati Reds. But I'd say those teams, what do you think? Josh. Yeah. I mean, I I don't think those two teams really have a chance. I think the reds probably have a better chance than the pirates though. No, no, you're wrong. Okay. Let's let's let's ask the question. I can't remember if you're in the pod for this. How many games did the pirates win last year? I don't know. What do you asked me to do research BUSTER? Eighty to tell me, you're not surprised. I am surprised. I am surprised. Okay. Are they better than they were last season? They have a their rotation. All these young players are you're older. Yeah. They could conceivably have one of the best rotations baseball. Again. I I don't think the pirates are gonna make the playoffs and we'll go through our picks next week. But I do think that that's a team that could make the playoffs fair enough. Sterling at stir ride Seventy-three. Hey BUSTER despite the expected three team race in the AL. Don't you think the Yankees are going to burst out of the gate and easily take the division easily? What do you think? Josh. I don't know. I don't do as cynical Red Sox fan. I don't think it's a I don't think it's a crazy question because that's what the Red Sox. Did they had they had an easy schedule at the beginning of the year last year. They want to say they started like nineteen and two or something crazy like that. And then just essentially road that out for the rest of the rest of the season. You know, you always say divisions aren't one in April. But when you get out to a hot start, and if the schedule sets up in a way. That allows you to really build a cushion. You can very easily absolutely win the division in April at Serlin. We talked about that schedule which bolsters what you you're referring to hear the Yankees first nine games three against the Orioles three against the Tigers. Three against the Orioles thirteen their first fifty games or against the Orioles. That's a pretty nice schedule. Yeah. No. So as as wild as it sounds, it's certainly not out of the question Rena is next cheese at Rena banana says even though spring training doesn't matter. Everybody knows that Corey kluber has struggled thus far and hasn't locked in his usual opening day. Start for Cleveland should the Indians acquire another starter to bolster their rotation. Or is this just overreaction to a small sample size? And I love a lot of Rina's questions are about the American League central. We really cool. Look, I I don't think that they'll acquire starting pitcher. I think it's if they're going to do anything, and I saw this in the Atlantic yesterday that there's they maintained contact with the San Diego Padres about trading away. One of the stars, which we talked about that possibility during the wintertime, if a deal happens, I gotta believe it's Corey kluber who would be traded the Padres. Because from the Padres perspective. If you're going to trade for a starter, you want a guy who can be around as a bridge into the next two or three years and Trevor Bauer has made it clear he's going year to year with contracts. It's during the course of his career, which means he's going to become a free agent. So Corey kluber if anything I think he's going to be traded away sometime during the end of spring training or perhaps during the season. Meg oh has a good one. She's at Meg oh seven says in listening to these rapid fires. I've noticed a lot of players are saying that their favorite road city is Seattle. So if that's the case, why doesn't anybody sign there? Travel. You hear that a lot from players, and they're not going to say that out loud. But when you ask them about what's it like to plan the Mariners man, you put a lot of miles in like, they they travel more they fly more than any other team in baseball. How much of it has to do with money though, too? I mean, if the person. Yeah. Yeah. The ma-. The Mariners have spent there's you know. I mean, you had veteran players go there like a Nelson Cruz. Yeah. Yeah. And and look I you know, the Mariners have tried to win. There's no question about that here in in fact, it's, you know, a problem for them is that they just simply haven't had the form system in recent years to support the efforts made at the big league level, which is why they're going through this rebuilding period. And finally, we have Jake Reagan at Jake underscore Reagan or rather at underscore, Jake. Reagan Jake says Harper and Hoskins seem to be growing very close quite quickly. If you were to write a buddy comedy movie with two players pass for president. Who would you choose in? What would you call your cinematic masterpiece? You know, I gotta tell you. I loved sixty one where they it was about Roger Maritza Mickey Mantle and their relationship. I thought it was terrific a terrific story. I don't know if you'd call it a comedy. But it was it was great. How about this one? Josh how about Jeet Singh. Josh. You know, the, you know dare. Right. You is Derek Jeters wingman. There you go. What do you think? Josh. I'm down for that. Yeah. That's a good call absolutely tearing up the town together. What about David price and Astro? You know, everybody everybody. Every cop needs a good dog. And there's no dog out there that's better than Astro prices. French bulldog. Maybe you could work a little animation into it. Absolutely. No. And and the name on it when I see him the name of the movie would be leave me alone starring David Paulsen. His dog Astro come -absolutely. I love it. I go see that. No question. I was playing it straight up turning it in different direction. I know for a guy who helped you win the world. Hurry, listen, I'm forever indebted. But he he doesn't I don't know. He loves his dog Astro. I'm not sure how much he loves URI BUSTER. But I don't know I pay a couple of bucks to go watch that movie. Good questions keeping coming use the hashtag Bleacher tweets. All right. Well, that's it for today. My thanks to Marcus semi until Jesse Rogers to award a Peres to curl his Korea to the legend. Boop Shami to Sierra Lang's. Josh Macarena Josh between now and tomorrow morning five thirty AM first pitch coming from Tokyo. I have quandary what else should I get besides the coffee like normally you're getting ready for a regular time. Ballgame you know, chips that sort of thing. Some beer. Yeah. Right. Exactly. But five thirty AM, I got coffee, and I'm thinking what I don't know a beer memorial some smoke. Boy. That's that. Doughnuts person come on. Of course. I'm donuts person. You've seen me you sit there with your with your baseball glove. Maybe use it as a pillow in between innings jets two different kind of ballgame. No question. Yeah. My dog. It'd be looking at me funny when I yell out loud. When each will makes another great throw. Especially ruby. My dog will be looking at me if I yell out in Japanese. Between now. And then all right. That's it for today. Thanks for listening. Have a great day. Everybody for listening to the baseball tonight podcast if you're playing fantasy baseball don't forget to listen to the fantasy, focus podcast checkout. All podcasts at ESPN dot com slash pod. Separate baseball ten night the podcast.

baseball Yankees Josh Macarena Josh Bryce Harper Red Sox reporter Sarah Lang GIO Gonzalez Mets Phillies Mariners Orioles Martine Maldonado Carlos Gonza Astros Braves Michael Conforto Paul Goldschmidt dodgers NFL
11: Wake Me Up

Last Day

53:41 min | 11 months ago

11: Wake Me Up

"The newest show from limited media is officially out. Good kids how not to raise an asshole features advice rants and reflections on how to raise kinder better humans. I personally locked myself in the bathroom over Thanksgiving and binged on the first five episodes. I am not sure what my kids were up to during that time. But they're fine and I would like to thank my husband. You should check out. Good kids to the episodes are hilarious and useful and touching and who knows you might be at risk right now for raising an asshole unless you listen for fifteen minutes each week. Try this Ted style. PODCAST on child careering. Listen and subscribe today. Two good kids how not to raise an asshole. I know I say this all the time but this time it's really true. If you are just joining us for the first time this episode will make so much more sense sense if you go back and start the series from episode one when you lose a loved one in my case son one. It's hard to not continually. Think about the things you might have done differently conversations you might have navigated differently decisions. I might have made differently moments. That might have made the difference between the life and death of my son This is Gary Mundell his son. Brian died by suicide in two thousand eleven after struggling for a decade with addiction and the question is why did someone thirteen months substance. Free Twenty five years old who just been home. Four four months early had a great time with his family and felt loved and connected. Why did he take his own life? Realities reality's I've never had to wonder. He told me in his suicide now. He said it's about not being. Amy Treated like a human after trying so hard working so hard to get back to normal reality galaxy is Stephanie. My son did not foresee a world. Did Not envision a world where as a young adult he could develop a disease get treated in the healthcare system learn how to manage a chronic illness successfully for the rest of his life flexible with diabetes or asthma and live a happy and healthy life. He did not envision that world and so so my energy right now with Brian my heart is to bring everybody together to create that world for the next young man the next young woman the next family. Am One comes along as a way to create this world that Brian didn't foresee Gary did something pretty extraordinary. He founded shatterproof. It's an organization that's actively working to reverse the addiction crisis in America because what he found is is that for every major disease in this country there was one well-funded national organization that was leading the fight. American cancer. Susan B Komen autismspeaks awesome speaks but there wasn't an organization on that scale for addiction and there needed to be so he quit his job. As a high powered businessman. This man to create it and shatterproof is helping a lot of people. But it's also a way for Gerry to proactively address. All those questions agenda that plagued him early on after he lost his son. Certainly in the beginning I found it almost impossible to stop obsessing about those moments wants those decisions those conversations but then over time I began to realize that it can be a tribute to a life that has been lost two turns one energy to the to the things that can be accomplished and at the same time helping others and that is what a lot of respects when I look at it that way feels really good feels really good. It feels like look at the worse this case. I can't say for sure the worst case. We're going to help a lot of people from this best case. My son and your brother are together right now because you and I are together and they're watching us and I mean how can not cry when you think about that. I'm Stephanie Woodall's walks. I do cry often. And this is lasting a a and so you know our executive producer Jessica Cordova Kramer. Her story is basically Gary Harry story only instead of being a businessman. She's a podcast producer. And she's been in the industry for a minute and by minute. I mean for a lot of minutes but in some ways this show is new territory for her. I've talked about how weird it is to host a show about the most terrible thing that's ever happened to you but just as in the bizarre position of having to sell people a show about the most terrible thing that's ever happened to you. Oh it's fucking shit show. I mean I have calls with our core executive team where I'm like. Hey we should really put digital ads behind the Stephanos last day episode because so many people are going to resonate with that story line and that's like a disgusting conversation to have but like I want his story fucking heard and I know it's cleansing to people to here it because it's so mundane like he went to work. He bought drugs and he died in his bathroom alone and we didn't find signed him to later and it was too late to save him and that is the story of so many people you know. Maybe it wasn't the bathroom but it's the same story over and over again and I I WANNA amplify it. I want people to hear it and I don't like Holy Shit. What am I doing Gary? And just don't want Steffano Steffano and Brian to have died in vain in Judaism we say may his memory be a blessing and both of them are hustling to make that happen happen. That doesn't make it any easier on the grief front. What is a bad grief day? What is bad? Grief May need to check the time real quick. I'm supposed to be This entire time no matter how emotional things are. Your phone is like I. Oh now my phone's blowing up messages. That is not hyperbole. Frankly it's probably more than a million messages. which is how all this whole thing works by the way there's just no time out for grief so yes phones all the phones? That is totally. Okay this is a phone okay zone. Also that's Jackie are stone cold producer with the magical ability to make a person feel feel all of their feelings and by that I mean cry so grief in the very beginning when you lose someone court here life. If is complete denial. So you're just going through the motions and doing the things that you're supposed to do. And then I think for some period of time it's like it is screaming in your ears. Definite was dead Stephanos dead and That screaming like the volume goes down and my brother. Being dead is the first thought I have every morning and before I fall asleep every night and it's been two years years and that has been true every single day and I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night gasping for air because in my lacks consciousness and sleep I remember and I take my breath away even while sleeping and I think for me a bad grief day now after two years that volume is back up. We're like have lived into this new reality where I have a brother and not alive one and You know most is. These are like just days where I have a brother who's no longer with me physically and the bag briefed is days where you're like no this can't can't be true and it feels like it just happened to get the way that just deals with this new in reality is to do this work and like Gary it's productive mission oriented work and frankly it helps oops it can be a very effective coping mechanism. I think I'm good at compartmentalizing and I think when people are really struggling being with complicated grief which is a medical term for that sort of takes over almost like a form of depression? They are having trouble compartmentalizing. And that you just can't turn the volume down and so going to work or going through the motions becomes incredibly challenging and for me. My Coping Mechanism is distraction And my life is very distracting. So generally speaking. I think it's been okay but I like I've let myself like just hurt like the socks. Looks like I lost my. I lost my brother really. We were supposed to see our parents grow old together and we were supposed to have kids. Who are cousins and we were supposed to travel together and I really? We liked him and we don't I don't have them anymore. Not In that way and that sucks for me. That sucks so so up until now I have gotten to say stuff like that and process it in real time into a microphone. Like I'm doing right now and because of that a lot of Shit has come up for me over the course of making the show and sometimes that is mortifying but mostly it is Super Cathartic I get to remember Harris every time I write a script and that makes me wonder if jess has ever for wish that the roles were reversed. Do I ever no I. I think Stephanie is the exact right person host. This show we we had to she and I I had to work through some shit in the beginning like I am handing my brother's life over to you and his legacy. Please don't fuck it up and she has done a beautiful job and I would trust her with my life and it was really hard like like I said we have to hire producers to be like. Take me to Boston and recreate his last day. We took three days to do that with the production demon. It was not fun. It it was not fun And you know it included the conversations that people heard with page. It included walking through Boston's and she treats and watching businessman passed out in their cars at the McDonalds mouth open on a break from work. Homeless People Volk cooking up heroin on the street. That was a lot but it was also a lot behind the scenes. You see this Boston trip. That she's describing was the first I tape we ever recorded for the show and honestly at this point in the process. We didn't even know what the show would be. It was just sort of this crazy. Amorphous idea idea. I mean we barely had an outline but the trip was planned. Flights were booked and she and her production team left for Boston. Anyway and everything she described here as not fun is true. But there's more to it than that. We had decided that we would make this show about losing using our brothers but this was the first time we actually had to ask. How do you do that? I mean do you take the role of an objective differ reporter. Is it a first person. audio diary and Jess committed to coping through this executive producing torture device didn't just stick to the original already. Potentially triggering goal of retracing her brother's last day. She also booked a full schedule of field interviews. I don't know if you know this but my brother died here on October. Twenty third two thousand seventeen He died of a heroin overdose. Thank you this is how Jess S. opened pretty much every interview in Boston. And you know the part that kills me the way she says thank you out of a heroin overdose. Sorry thank you. I know that. Thank you the one that used to be reserved for strangers. Complementing your outfit. But now you're only line of defense against totally losing your shit in the middle of a work day that particular. Thank you was directed to Marty Walsh. The current mayor era of Boston who was also an office when Stephanos died. I've been in public offices. Nineteen ninety seven. I was talking about a crisis epidemic in ninety seven. It wasn't officially labeled it in ninety seven but you can see on the streets of Boston in America the devastation that addiction was doing it was which is different You know I just felt I'm in recovery myself so I just saw a different type of different type of disease out there. Yup Mayor Walsh is a self identified recovering alcoholic and this personal experience has factored into his priorities as a mayor. He recently established the Office for Recovery Services. That supports harm reduction programs along with many other proactive measures in Boston. We started off with an office a couple of people and have expanded into so many different areas of you know making show of knock in in police cars and looking at the way we treat people after Post overdose focusing on access to treatment focusing on. How do we get people into some type of treatment in the street and really having a number of counselors out? The almost almost street workers walking the streets and talking to people that we can see And and you know we also talked about. How do people access treatment? How do people get information on treatment? Treatment what would you say in Boston is the face of the OPIOID crisis. People would say Mel Nina massive. Well we have a lot of services homeless services and Recovery Services and and there's a lot of active addiction going on the street I I don't view that the face of addiction is I don't know if there's one face anymore I mean if people in Boston think that Mel Nina and mass is the face of addiction. While then I think you're wrong because you have to look at a lot of homes up and down neighborhoods Nice neighborhood streets. There's a lot of addiction going on in those homes that people don't talk about. I mean people name down there and But every single person down there was loud. Dory's love by somebody you know you ask me is. What's the face of addiction action? I think the best way explain it is. Somebody's loved one. The neighborhood he's describing is a neighborhood that is full of people who are loved by somebody downtown. It's a stretch of Massachusetts Avenue or massive known as Methadone Mile. It's a name that's is not embraced necessarily by healthcare workers in the area because they feel like it stigmatizes the people and treatment. This neighborhood is a complicated needed intersection of drug use and rehabilitation nearby. You have the Boston. Medical Center homeless shelters numerous Methadone and suboxone clinics along with a booming open air drug market. It's a lot and it's where we're going after the break. Did you know that stamps. Dot Com brings the post office. Right to you while they do anything you can do. Due at the post office you can do at stamps. Dot Com and it saves you money with discounts that you can't get at the post office simply use your computer to print out official Oh. US postage twenty four seven for any letter any package any class of male anywhere you want to send it. It's very cool and once your meal is ready. You just hand the Tier Mail carrier or drop it in a mailbox and you're done and was stance dot com. You get five cents off every first class stamp and up to forty percents off priority mail. So don't spend and a minute of your holiday season. The Post Office this year sign up for STAMPS DOT COM instead. There's no risk with our Promo code last day. You get a special offer that includes a four week. Trial plus free postage digital scale no long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps. Dot Com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in last this day. LET'S DANCE DOT com enter last day. STAMPS DOT COM. You never have to go to the post office again. Did you know that. On Average Women Shave ten times the surface area of men. How crazy is that? But razors haven't been up to this Unequal task until now billy has finally designed a razor are built for the way women shave and I have to tell you I am hooked I love billy accompany delivering premium razors directly to you for half the price of what you'd find in the store for only nine dollars. You can get four refill blades. Every one two or three months based on how often you shave go to my billy dot COM to get their starter kit including two razor cartridges a handle and their magic magnetic holder for the shower you can go to mypillow dot com slash last day for ten percent off your razor. It's a small way that you can support us while you're getting the best razor you will ever own for half the price of razors in the store. Plus shipping is always free this a limited time special offer so go now to save ten percent off your razor at my billy dot com m. y. b. i. l. e. dot com slash last day. We're back it's May and is in Boston. We're standing outside with Pat Hayes from the Boston. Fire Department lieutenant with the Fire Department. Who has been sort of on the front lines of a lot of the OPIOID crisis? Here across the street is a Methadone Clinic. Lieutenant Pat Hayes is the AP coordinator e AP stands for the Employee Assistance Program a free the and confidential program focused on the wellness of Fire Department employees and their immediate family members which is necessary because the day to day stress firefighters experience like many first responders takes a toll and the AP offers a wide range of behavioral health services. To help with all that for your flight is given more towards helping each other more support. There's still some stigma. 'cause firefighters tend to think that they're indestructible that they can fix everything But it is. I'll tell you the younger members that are coming on the job. There there are Iraqi war vets Afghanistan. STIR MORE TOWARDS A. If there's a signal need help they you see something wrong and they. They recommended to each other like they've been in combat together some employees to counsel. Someone aren't acting right. They say it'll maybe she had some help. The department does a lot of training wanted and and we try to be proactive instead of reactive. But still it really is the individual because if they don't wanNA share if they don't want on low that burden they just just tend to carry and it gets worse if isolate. Keep it so this is pretty cool. I mean picture it. A bunch of tough firefighters pursue aren't too tough to talk about their feelings and support each other it helps that every person who works at the AP is also in recovery ended. The good thing is like So say someone you know. The subsidies usually just a a a symptom of the underlying cars usually. There's something more going on they self medicate. And it's when they see someone that they may have drank or used drugs with that Soba in his work in the office CRISTEA. No it's not like the departments out to get because I I used to run amok with the sky so or I've heard of this guy. Look at him now. Now he's you know so it gives a little little legitimacy that the guys know that they kind of walked the talk But I think most of the guys realize that we're just trying to help being helper. That he is pat was is the perfect person to walk jess through method mile and a clinic where people are getting help or they're just kind of hanging out it just kind of hanging out but if you go down a little bit further down the street here on the right there is a methadone clinic in there and they seem to contradict blue from here. All the way to Molina cast boulevard services mass how this stretch watch reflects so many contradictions at play in the opioid crisis on the one hand. Yeah it's very useful to cluster social services to support support people dealing with substance use on the other hand you're essentially rounding up of vulnerable population into one central location. which makes them even more vulnerable? People seeking treatment are face to face with public drug. Use I mean we. I'm sure you guys. We'll just past someone cooking of heroin with a needle in their mouth as we were walking over here between the Fire Department and the prison. This image of a person shooting up out out in the open right next to a prison is so shocking and note worthy to our producer but seems totally normal to pat because he sees it every day the pat and and his team having succumbed to compassion fatigue in fact they're going the extra mile teaming up with Mayor Walsh's office recovery services to bring harm reduction people's front doors literally. This program is called knock and talk twice a week for four hours each time and try to go door to door and get in touch with people and and see if they need any If they want help number one and number two we can also help them get into You know treatment incentives that they might have trouble getting into so it's it's going. It's going pretty well. I think we've been doing it for about three or four years now. First of all the dose response was when I was on engine seventeen and it was probably eleven years ago twelve years ago and it was before the said even hit the radar and it was in fields corn and stuck out of news a young female twenty one years old Well dressed and she'd overdosing. McDonald's finals are bathroom so little. Did I know that was to begin with what we are at right now. So I'd love to impact on me because I have a auto saw and I was like. Wow how did this girl end up on heroin. You know these encounters intense but so fast first responders founders are asked to swoop in and out and are usually given no information on how the story ends nor an opportunity to engage with the people they serve in any sort of meaningful way. Knock and talk. Program allows them to make a far greater impact firefighters when we're on companies we respond to the actual overdose. Sometimes and then you come back lady get to talk to the family meadows and the person who overdosed. Try and get them that healthy so a lot of the times we're going to You know the same address over and over again and We still approach it as you know. It's the first time we've talked to them. And we try to get them into treatment if if we have to get them into treatment a few different times in order for it to stick for them. And that's what we'll do it it's just. It's it's heartbreaking. Not Too far away. Michael Botticelli sits at the Executive Director of the Center for Addiction Medicine at the Boston Medical Center. This is impressive but before that he served as the director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy under Barack Obama. Aw At is a big deal and guess what he is also in recovery and between that and years of working in this field. He's passionate talk about changing things. We have three highly effective medications for the treatment of people who have an opioid use disorder and research. Here showed that if we you can get People on one of those medications particularly buprenorphine or a Methadone that we can reduce mortality by fifty percent. And you no. I think anybody who looks at a disease and says you can reduce mortality by fifty percent will be jumping up and down and doing everything they can here here. We go again with the data and science and I have to be honest with you that every fucking time. I hear this I just get angrier angrier and angrier that this wasn't something I knew when my brother was alive. Botticelli is frustrated too. I think it was kind of aggravating to me. Weihe like kind of lose my patient sometimes. Is You know we know that's still a minority of treatment programs. In the United States actually incorporated Braider offer medications into part of what they're doing. We still have. I think less than seven percent of primary care providers in the United States who have gone through the training to treat people with an opioid use disorder and a very small portion of them. Actually treat people so it's just kind of one stunning example to me of things that we could be doing and should be doing that can make a major impact in this. You know I'm looking at you and thinking about your brothers trajectory Jack Tree in kind of wondering you know if he went to a tree reprogram and they offered him medications or people you know gave him good objective information mation on you know what are appropriate treatment for the disease that he had I tell you a little about that so he he heard this story. Sorry before was definitely needed vitriol. A treatment center wouldn't give it to him and this is the first of many times that just has to explain the story of it. He said it's a life for death situation. He died two days later. So that's you know he was working on it He was aware that it was wearing off and he needed help. And he didn't get. I think that you know we often kick people out of treatment for exhibiting the symptoms of the disease they APP. You know. It's hard enough off to get in Let alone to stay in. So that's I think the other piece state you. Your brother story illustrates yeah. I'm curious so for people who are listening to the show and their air person or people are struggling with with an opioid addiction. At some level. You there's inpatient stuff that you see where you said at the Boston Medical Center Center that is working. And I assume that there's outpatient stuff that is working in a record that because the ambulance okay So we should keep that yeah. Is it seriously like I always think you know. I think that's probably does run. Yeah it maybe. Isn't this striking Botticelli. Here's an ambulance and assumes it's an overdose run ooh I mean all over the country. People feel like they're state is ground. Zero for opioids. But New England actually is at the forefront forefront of this crisis and twenty seventeen every state in the region experienced higher rates of overdose deaths than the national average so it makes sense that just felt compelled to cover this part of the story Boston. Not just as the site of her brother's death but as a case study of a larger issue but her brother was than hanging out on massive. He wasn't visited by empathetic firefighters or treated by Michael Botticelli Boston medical. He died alone in his bathroom. When we come back? We revisit a conversation with someone much closer to Home Stephanos wife page inch got to tell you folks. I am digging my new Jerry. Sorry Jules and I'm also digging the idea that I'm supposed to buy nice jewelry or myself because I deserve it. And Missouri makes handcrafted fine jewelry for everyday use news like their bold spheres bracelet and croissant. Dome Ring they work with. Expert Jewelers to handcraft their exceptional jewelry with the same high quality materials and commitment to craftsmanship. So they can sell directly to you but without the traditional markups and I love that you can see how they price each item in comparison to estimated retail. Oh costs on every product page like a diamond ring. That's easily over. Five hundred dollars at a traditional retailer is less than two hundred at Missouri so go check out Missouri on Instagram instagram. Or sign up to see their latest weekly drop this week there featuring their tube hoops addition. Or you can treat yourself right now. Go to Majoria DOT COM slash last day for free shipping on orders over one hundred dollars that is spelled M. E. J. U. R. I. Dot Com Slash last day majority dot com slash rush. Last Day there podcast fans. Are you looking for a new true crime. podcast check out gangster house the new podcast from imperative entertainment. Don't gangster house. Has It all hospital hitmen. FBI INFORMANT A prison escape of an explosion and so much more. It's the story of Mike Service. The son of Greek immigrants and a man living the American dream with his wife and five kids in nineteen seventies Atlanta. A man consumed by his own greed excesses and desire for power from the producer of podcast. Mega hits Atlanta Monster Broken hearts arts and monster the Zodiac killer. Listen to gangster house right now on your favorite podcast player We're back so an episode to we met page refresher she and Steffano had gotten married. Just a a few months before he died. When you think of newlyweds you think of hope and joy like everyone cries at weddings? Because it's this beautiful a full union that's filled with promises between two people who are building a life together building a future together now juxtaposed that with the destructive nature of active addiction. Stephanos was in it used on their wedding day used. During the first first few months of their marriage I mean paycheck to administer NARC hands several times and ultimately she's the one that found him dead so so just was there to get the story of her brothers last day but I think she was also curious about the day before and the week before and really any any information on whether or not this story could have ended differently. What was your understanding of addiction before meeting and marrying him? I'm with him when he died. Well I kind of have an idea because I kind of like deal with that myself. Like with drinking and stuff So I know what it's like to Just kind of feel like you don't really have any control or like hope up flakes topping See you felt sympathetic from the start. And how do you feel about it. Now that it's taken someone that you loved I'm united still. I feel the same way like I don't I don't blame him like you know what I mean. Obviously no one thinks they're gonNA die like you can see a million people die and you still don't think it's going to happen to you. Yeah Yeah do you think he had any think. I thought that he was going to die that day. No not at all even with all. Aw clues no one expected him to die that day and that's partly because Stephan always felt on some level like he was still in control he never surrendered to the disease. And it's hard not to look back and wonder if you should have done more. What about like as you know we? We loved him his dead friends who loved him did. How did you feel like those people? Were helping or not helping including me and and all of this will I think like the problem in general was that like African tuneless so far away and like honestly I think that he kind of liked it that way. No one could really be like checking up on him. Yeah Yeah do you know how did he manage his close friendships and his family from intervening in this. I mean I think that his friends All his friends friends of New York. So I know heeded see them a couple times but Lake he was just very concerned with them like seeing like how he's Changed Because they think like you know. He wanted them to see that like Keith. Kind of turned his life around so to speak like you know he has this job now when he's Getting married in like his life is back on track So you know the aren't exactly like people that that he would see regularly and with family You know same thing. It's kind of just like he could just show what he wanted to show Yeah it sucks to feel like you're being kept in the dark like you know something's going on and you want to help but you're also trying to respect your person's boundaries while trying to piece things together from fifteen hundred miles away and it's just totally impossible to do the right thing and when you look back at the situation in hindsight it's so easy to be like. Why didn't I see that? But of course part of the answer is because you're person didn't want you to. They were doing everything they could to specifically hide it from you for jess page provides so many missing pieces to this puzzle about her brother's death. They also about his life. Is there something that comes to mind when you think of like your best day ever with him trying to think Till a regular day I guess lick we would always sleep. Wake up early and go to the gym. 'cause we you like live right next to the jam You know then come home like how some smoothies and I know just like watch. TV and stuff and just just regular things you know doesn't it's not necessarily anything being like super late. Different are amazing just like the regular once. You're nervous system has adapted to chaos a normal day. Feels Pretty fucking good and it makes sense. That page would find comfort in the mundane because the days that followed her husband's death or anything but what was the next day like I don't remember like if you guys came that day. Or what are your. We got there that morning the morning of the twenty fourth. Yeah who was just loudly. Birlik is terrible I don't know. Did you have any like thoughts running through your head. At that time I can remember my like. I wish that like I had been. Then they're like you know. I wish that like you. I don't know what Yelich I wished I had left work to come home like you know like when I started thinking about it Like when I wasn't getting a response back like I wish that I had been home in general I wish I have had like maybe a better conversation with him You know your last conversation. Yeah or down on yeah or that. I don't know that's basically that. I just wish I had been there to do something about. Yeah I understand. I don't know I don't know what you could have done yet. I understand in that sense. We'll NARC yeah. Yeah Right. Both of these women have their own list of things that tortures them the things they didn't do the things they could have done differently. In hindsight it feels totally reasonable. That we should have been mind reading superheroes who could always be on. Call drop everything and Save the day. This says the struggle for people who love people who use drugs yes narcan can save lives if someone chooses not to use alone. But you can't be expected to be. There are holding their hand twenty four hours a day. Some of some of the idea ruined the show is like that fine line between life and death. Unlike the moment things change like the background of my phone is still your wedding and I always look at my instagram than like October twenty second Tober twenty-third and like I was just a not the same person like I had no clue and I texted with you guys as my mom's birthday and you're sending ending cap memes because that's what I did ninety percent of your relationship with your thirty something year old brother who has a cat is going to be cat media loved What do you think he missed out on? What did he miss out on I don't know what didn't he myth out on ivory things that stick out You know just like even like he doesn't get to see the GATT anymore. I was just saying he loved cat. Lake home never get to them a lot of things like he'll never get to have kids. Never get to you know seen as nieces curl you know anything Lake Blake. Now's the think about like you. Go all the way back to birth something like this happens you know. What signs sued we mess like? What could we have done differently? And were all the way until hours before he died. do you think there's something I could've done differently or something. That happened in his childhood or anything that you think like it was nothing you did nothing anything anyone in your family. Ted You UTAH. It could be something that's just like presence in someone's brain and then link. The right situation happens like someone just like exposed to an environment. They try something horrible lake. Opiates you know. And and they can't really quite get back from that I think also he felt like he was like you know he wants told me when he was on drugs like he felt like he was better. His job like veterans selling better. Like more confident less anxious. Like you know when you have that kind of thought. That's the kind of toxic as well like if you think you're better when you're high the you know that's the crazy that's how are are you gonNA come back from that but yeah I mean you know. Obviously that's false but yeah I. I don't know it's hard to say. Hey I don't think anyone can no yeah we He told me the same thing. Yeah only time I feel normal is one. I'm using drugs. You don't even know how to respond to that. Yeah Yeah what do I do at that. It's heartbreaking to hear them compare notes like this just described those bad grief days the moments when the volume is deafening page experiences this too but in a very different way so I think about him pretty much every day all day long This is is not a trick question but like in the beginning when someone dies it's literally can't think of anything else screaming grief and disbelief but now it's been eighteen. Eighteen months like POW. Is He present and not present in your life Lake it's not like I'm always thinking about him but it's more just like random things like when I'm driving to work like I like try pretty much past where we used to live so laking. I'm just like for him. We think of anything any of those things yeah What if you had like another thirty seconds or a minute with him? What would you say I would just tone valley? I'm sorry that I love him. I think really what else say you know. Even as this conversation was coming to an end there was still a lot of unanswered questions especially around. How page was processing her own grief? You feel like it's like you're widow Mike. You're twenty eight years old. You feeling the people look at you differently when they now do you tell people I don't really tell you fall now so like what about your friends or family members who now we're at your wedding and yeah like I feel a little awkward about two people have nice things to say or they say stupid. Things are better her now. People just like. Don't talk about it. You just don't say anything that's fine. You'd rather not yeah. I know that people die. I all the time you know usually when there are a lot older around me no sake or something but Yeah just kind of people die does it. Do you think like why did this happen to me. Ever Not really no did you think about that after for No I mean 'cause like concern. It wasn't really swimming. Having to meet those leaks happened to him happened to you to value. I mean it's pretty. Yeah yeah appreciate bullock on defy like really you know I don't know like I knew the just talked about like I knew that what I was getting into. I mean like you know. I didn't know it was GONNA the bad. Obviously I don't feel that from its own you can. Yeah but I don't. A lot of people are going through sales all the time you know people are sick people. I think we should. You should stop for now. Thank you for doing this. We ended episode so too with tape of a phone call that I had with us when we were discussing this impending Boston trip that frankly she was really dreading and on this call. She's running down a series of questions that motivated the trip and really the entire show. So I don't know if it's like six months or a year after the person dies or for the whole time you after you find out that they're using this drug you're trying to what the how the fuck did this happen. And I think for those of US left behind you're constantly trying to find out. What could I have done what could have done differently? So once the answer Recently emailed me and she said my daughter is been using heroin for the past seven or eight years and she just started using fed dental. I don't know what to do. Is there anything I can do. And I with all the caveats of you know I I love you and I'm sorry and I am. I'm not a doctor. I said all like you know if I had thirty seconds more with Stefano I would say. Please don't use alone. Don't use alone you don't have to. You can use right in front of me if you need to. And that is like contrary to everything you learned about enabling addiction and there are ways in which you could maintain an addiction at independence. Either won't kill you and expecting people to just not use. It doesn't work works so I I think the thing I'd say to people is just don't use it alone. Go to a treatment. Facility has ones in the other room be honest Don't go in the bathroom in the middle of the night. Wake me up. Wake me up. If you're GonNa do it just wake me up onto We ask a lot of you emotionally with every episode of the show but this one feels particularly painful. And I'm not GonNa say I'm sorry but I am going to just acknowledge that out loud. It's so crazy that when we started making the show. There's just no way the Justin I could have predicted. How if at all our our perspectives on all this would have shifted or changed and we certainly couldn't have predicted that change would be so aligned? I mean talking to Garth last week. It really hit me. That Harris could have used drugs for the rest of his life as long as it would have kept him. Alive and Jess is coming to a similar realization. Don't hide drug use. Don't use alone wake me up. I making making the show has been an intensely labor of love for my brother in families and my brother's wife page And my kids because I don't have have anywhere to put that love he's gone and there's so many people struggling and it's it's just all the love I have no in an art form and somehow the universe put me in Stephanie. Together I mean we could have been best friends in college. We like each other genuinely. She's my sister now and we went to college together. We didn't know each other and it was only after my mother died that we found around each other and the show really feels like something cosmic that needs to be in the world both as a piece of Art Ed piece of activism but also as like these boys died a fucking sucks and then we have to make something of it been really painful and it just feels worth it. I hope it's worth it me to just me too next week. We wrap up part one of our series with very important people and our parents. It's like now it's like so easy now to understand yes but no. No one offered that option. I know but why didn't we like talk to an addiction medicine doctor. Or why didn't we in all honesty. Stephanie I didn't know they existed Last Day as a production of lemon media this episode was produced by Jackie. ocoee Dan Soccer Jessica. Cordova Kramer is our executive producer and our series producer is Danielle Roth. Keegan's Emma as our technical director and our music doc is by Hannah's Brown special thanks to Westwood One our ad sales and distribution partner. You can find us online at lemonade media. That's lemonade what I like. L. E. M. O. M. A. D.. And if you like what you heard today tell all the people that you know to listen and subscribe rate and review us on Apple spotify stitcher or wherever wherever you get your podcasts and check out our show notes for a deeper dive into what you've heard today and how you can connect with our wonderful glorious fantastic Dick Supportive last community. I'm Stephanie Whittles Wax. See you next week. Did you know that kids eat one thousand ninety five meals every year if you include snacks. It's more like four gazillion meals meals a year and that's right parents. You have the grand honor of making sure. They're fed each and every one. It kind of sucks but finally there is some real help and camaraderie three to. Didn't I just feed you a food. podcast four parents. Even the ones who hate to cook like me hosted by professional cooks and tired working parents Stacey and Megan again from how to turn Nachos into legit family dinner to the magic of meatballs debunking cooking rules to musing on the emotional labor of being the family. Cook these to get real bill every week about what it takes to feed our families and they laugh a lot too so subscribe to. Didn't I just feed you wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Another another podcast to check out. It's increasingly rare to see an analysis of activism through an Intersectional Lens that takes into account spirituality the majority of the the world's self identifies as religious or spiritual and yet many discussions of politics culture and activism are devoid of spiritual framework spirited. It is changing that by speaking with leaders and activists from diverse backgrounds about how spirituality informs their practice and activism host Dr Simranjit and Jeet Singh speaks with Comedian Hari Kondabolu representative Ilhan Omar. The President of Union Theological Seminary Serene Jones and more influential leaders leaders about how philosophy and spiritual teachings inform their modern day activism as a practicing seek Cimarron offers a unique perspective that is too who often ignored his analysis on spirited of how equity and justice intersect with religion and spirituality are new and noteworthy subscribed dispirited now.

Boston producer heroin Stephanie US Stephanos Gary it Brian America Michael Botticelli Marty Walsh Gary Methadone Clinic Jessica Cordova Kramer jess McDonald executive executive producer Steffano Steffano Fire Department
47 - Premier League on NBC Group Chat Episode 2

The 2 Robbies

56:22 min | 7 months ago

47 - Premier League on NBC Group Chat Episode 2

"No one likes to feel stock especially by your cloud but the IBM cloud is the most open and secure public cloud for business. It can manage all your apps and data anywhere smart. Loves problems. Ibm Let's put smart to work visit. Ibm Dot com slash flexible. Hi Everyone I'm Rebecca Lowe and this is Premier League on NBC podcast number two as we try to keep your company their home whilst the Premier League is of course the Spohn for now. Now this week we've entered the modern world. We are no longer burning in on a corporate school. We have all goes onto zooms. Hope you can hear US better. And if you're watching as well on Youtube on the NBC Channel. You can see us as well then we all in roads across the United States and the UK as well this week as you can see. We've talked leslie. Dixon Ramaphosa Romeo Rubin Style and come out and checks is not be to see everybody in Michigan. Will we talk this week about overseas a challenging time for everybody right now no matter who you all across the world and we got to thinking about other challenging times in our lives not careers and how we best handled them and how we now reflects McFadden overseas not compared to what anybody's going through right? Now which is in the theme of challenging time so needed all over there in bombs in west London. I'm GonNa Start with you if you could take back to a time in your career where you felt. It was really tough. What happens in how you dealt with it? Will Rebecca. I'M GONNA go back to a nineteen ninety. He was October. Nineteen Ninety Duck season nine thousand nine hundred eighty one. It was. The season ended really well for us in the lake for my second time. It's obviously I t nine. Victory Is Well documented. The pool then went onto win the league. Ninety which is the last time they look slightly GonNa win again very shortly. Hopefully then we wouldn't getting ninety one dot seasons of the club that loan so just still trying to set lane still trying to make a white in the first division was then which is now primarily trying to workout As a young man what he's about playing at that level and had a reasonable amount successively on so going into that season confident and then we went through all Tober and it was a feisty facts Of the the battle of Old Trafford. We recently sold the one with the baptist. Avoid while that was nothing compared to the one back ninety to you all know that. The boys remember rubbing will cause he's radioed his old is. Malcolm will do rumblings with Awesome Monte News a few little feuds that were going on notice. Nigel winterburn on Brian mcclair. Something happened to Highbury Nigel McKee out of Brian mcclair full missing a penalty. So he's a bit nichols they came across. H You look a lot on the pitch played opposite each other so that is a few little kicks in there so after that game we go to Old Trafford and then there was a couple niggles going on joined the game. The referee key hockey. I think he wasn't a time was trying to get control of the game. I'm does linked POSCO THAT BRILLIANT goal from a corner show Conan wit into the post cold. Locate the line goes getting ended up winning the game while nil in the second half there was a couple of tackles. It starts a flannel on the facade of the pitch at the time when notch winning for sidetracked with Brian mcclair and and how broke loose and I was probably faulty. Odds wait time so when you see something like that. Robin will tell us. Probably the first to arrive when the scope is going on as a peacemaker. My naive you couldn't see for Dawson asked the other way so what hotton was kicking Nigel on the floor and then everything went off. I think under slim car came in trying to attack. Nigel decided that the best rights to protect him to throw the biggest right hook above the stadium. My life landed on Brian. Class here in Split is a completely open with one punch medic house in Manhattan but shaved long long story is going on all night about the five is what happened afterwards. Game finished the game. One NIL BELIEF. Istat tune in style to look at the incidents and quite rightly Saudi was play his fine. They'd be drunk castle. Diva's undecided on Nigel. I think we had about six players who find You know quite a lot of money. Full the incident on a cup Leonardo plays but then the FAA decided in that wisdom to duck awesome. Two points offense Point we will adopt two points Monday night with one employee which we couldn't quite understand why does any difference. It was a male. Everybody was involved emphasis raising week. Two Point so George. Guzzle rounding circle at the training ground decided to do one be almost Winston Churchill speech. He's about sticking together about Beta family about inefficiency. You get drawn together. It just reminded me of what's going on at the moment that you need to have family around June also was a big family. We were Very Close Knit Bunch Plaza. Lots of tell you that same spirit was one of a very similar. To what Robin had it at Middle Forever Wimbledon kind nude a will be on five three three nine But we'll have a jolt set out account of box against the wall Lincoln arms mentality where we wouldn't let anybody in the press wanted to toll toll plaza would allow any place votes press. We count if grew stood on from the fact that we were a big unit and we together all in this trying to fight a common enemy that was basically outside world on the settings choir still quite young give my career on a kind of my first lesson in China they real nuances of abate in a team I was the first time it really clicked. And Yes we absolutely outvoted. Bosa of plans should have been fine. The should've been points Not Michael but what it did for me sought me in a in a situation that was looks from the outside is being really Baqwa. We grew strength from that. Actually that was my first lesson into you can achieve with a group of players in everybody else's against you and obviously what's going on in the outside well right now. I'm not saying we will go round file. Traffic does not able saying. Is that these people around you. The simple things in life about just having you may next year. We take for granted tons ECO. It sounds to me like George. Graham was overseeing real Montijo men a real leader. I should at time. You're young so you needed that. But do you think that right? Now when you think of the Club sneaking the bandages van role. Now let's think of Michaela for example they can't be with us but using their role in this very moment has taken on a whole new dynamic that a cool st nick applying for where they're going to have to face by trying to instill kind of owning it together mentality and positively from a distance right now. Selena on a think sometimes at margin certainly plays through the typed up his action in a team in for granted a little bit times. But I think it's time slot Perhaps the head. The figurehead village was then to stuns open. Actually there's a lot of mutterings going on in the world right now on an conspiracy theories and chats and all of that source though Fedex as the leaders that that stand up and actually calm everybody down in a moment light dot com slash because we wanted to fight the world about point. You know everybody was against as we were right. Not Fighter will we. We're not gonNA take any calmed his old down. He wanted to become a didn't want to be a hot headed. And I think the coach is a manages that you said now there's obviously a huge amount of emotion flying around everybody at the moment and quite rightly so not just full of any every walk of life and we Kinda just gotTa will come down and just breathe. An Oxley just listened to the people in power in food. Hopefully the experts will be out against this. Can I ask you a question? Yeah absolutely How disappointed are you that all all your gigs? At a coffee shop in covent garden were cancelled. What is this hot? You're inside? If you've been on the call at the right time heard but you would be laid. We move on Concertina never on on to you next you'll punish Romanelli Reading and so calm in his new lovely house in front of the rains. Love it rolling. Assay take us through what is challenged you or moving in. You'll create this shit. I think everybody I could pick out multiple Situations where it's been challenging through different reasons when you've been playing for as long as we have an interesting challenge impaired. I WanNa talk about is GonNa mid nineties when the foreign pledged to come into the Premier League Club Middlesbrough. Not Of course one of the biggest clubs but there was lots of money that wanted to go places and all of a sudden in nineteen ninety six all these international players coming into the dressing room. And you remember the the Middlesbrough we were a British squad. We stuck together and we got promoted into the flight shed one season back in into Bryan Robson and we finished midtable. Everything's fine that summer. I will change circus revenue. Any just WANNA Champions League event we have this little presenting co Janine. The was spectacular player. Msn was another midfield play. They came into the football club. Plus Italian pledge I knew confessed all all of a sudden adjustment changed. I'm for us. It's been there for many years. It was it was Kinda cool aheads around it and I'm not saying it was for the for the it wasn't for the worst. It was for the better because we went on a fun was a great run a Games etc etc. But it was very different. Justin was very different. Obviously the training habits of the place was different. We had players bringing their chefs to away games. telling chef come. I'm made his cookies every night and decided what we're eating. It seemed dinners every night. Oh okay right right. That's okay. We'll do that. And everything changed I'm familiar with me. Trying to find a way to stay on this road with the club the wanting to go places and on on on the league and it was difficult. Janiaux MSN. We had other good midfield players that May Have to change how I played and you know I was never a great attacking midfield player. But that's what. He's good at because they need to do that. Now would you neo coming in and Emerson another place to change? Basically and one thing I could do was run and I could run more than everybody else and I had a big heart and everybody else and I would cover runs engineer on Emerson. Didn't bother covering runs on. I found a way in a difficult situation to adapt to the team environment into the squad to stick around the sport needed and I ended up being that guy that worker to to to enable anybody else to play So so that will help from me as well. But amongst all the situations Rebecca one of the biggest challenges and we got about a lot the planet with that before was the difference in wages Ravanelli reportedly on and it was kind of factual everybody knew at the time. Forty two thousand pounds a week. This is back in the mid nineteen and I'll tell you right now. My wages at that time was about four or five on the question kept coming to the likes of Manson to other guys. These guys that you know the the the other kind of part of the squad. If you like the super south of what was how can you play in the same team with a guy's earning so much ten times more money than you're earning and that in itself was given thing to kind of get to grips with? How did that maybe fail? Well I I had no problem with it. Rebecca well saying no problem I I understood what both those guys bought to the squad and to the team and we went on cut runs and experiences basically because we had some really great pleasure in revenue schools. Thirty one goals in his first season. You mean the Was An amazing place. So I I understand the benefit of having those superstar players but sometimes it did make you think really they ten times more valuable to the team. When you're in the first eleven they are than I was so you think also starting to what did you think. Also that it depends on the character of the person. You don't mind them getting ten times more than us if the giving everything that you will giving and and if you've got a section that not maybe you know working quite hard on a mission to the cores that's when you start to get that that friction. Well that's a great point. 'cause forbid revenue was a great player. He was a pain in absolute pain in the ass squad and he went away on international juicy when we were struggling in the premier league so we use Grey Cup runs but basically in the league. We were struggling I'm GonNa go away with his international do interviews send. The team aren't good enough. The defense terrible. You know. That's why we don't do well in the primary wig and all the goes. We're not good defensively now. Of course that was big headlines at the time he comes back into the dressing room and he's so awkward is difficult. It was a difficult dressing room. And you're right Graham. I mean if if those players star players that run all the money and getting all the headlines and making a difference. They're going to be honest about that. But not showing the same willingness not rolling the sleeves up when you're fifth from in the league table due to own the hiding in games so that that was difficult part of it and some of the players and also didn't like it was stopped. Players mostly selling joint pain on August two two by being the leader that in taking all of address what was so Bryan Robson. All that was kind of guy. Say when you need somebody who can be leader in almost tool to you why. Somebody's getting this mom money all is exceptional player is going to make the benefit to you. It was one of the moving them in home games for me. Didn't do enough. It didn't do enough. It wasn't strong enough in a situation. Where the dressing room getting a little bit out of hand? And there was no clicks and the foreign plants being one corner visit ends in another corner the bridge that will always together and with the majority but it it it wasn't a great scenario and you know from the season before where we we did all right. We finished I think trump ten in the permanent ninety six or first season by cup the following season we had only straight runs in and they finally got renegade and so it wasn't as good even though there was some stop plays in that team that went on and other things are the clubs but it just shows the dynamic and the change of adjusting room. I it's so important we do all the time about we talk about all the time and the team getting promoted primarily they change too many plas- come in the room sauce to go away other teams. I mean there's examples of a good inbound both sides but the shepherd nights is right now the pretty much stuck together they bought. Some strike is to help them get goals but they've done marvelously. While so I just I I relate my experience back to some of the things promoted too many changes. It just doesn't work. Must say that that responsibility to me like when no the French slots came in so all dressing room after Austin came ninety six ninety seven. It was No influence in the dressing room whatsoever. Awesome idea until about Bryan Robson. Who didn't out guys in that when we police not just flew so those guys as well. Robby Robby was deciding Wimbledon judgment. You couldn't go in there and stop from around knocked. Try Putting fifty percent. Fm get found. They would so you ever and I think that's. That's the difference where the really the top managers can create an environment the police's itself within those walls. Thirty rarely after step into it. It does itself nothing. You can get balance. Ri- that tight so much white. Yoda's yeah anything without an agree with that you aren't you personality is big on the plane by Ghana's rubbing Nettie coming in too late low Middlesbrough tell you all. It takes a lot of big personalities. Because he allowed he was very loud very obnoxious. Very demanding very moody. And it's difficult. I know what you mean and not an idle snow. You pull these plays and you bring it back together again. But it wasn't easy and an old. Yeah school goes exactly. And he was a star player for him to be mood in. Be the painting yards and addressing moons. cynical can keep in touch with them roby. By the way I I next week I could I could. I didn't mind Ravanelli and we absolutely fine because see appreciable I brought to the team. Did he hated some of the slackness trainer we had. We had no training ground than we used to jump on a rickety old bus and go and go to some crappy old trading pitches so he rightfully he kicked up a fuss and we got new training ground and it helps a lot. The other players may be would envious didn't well to revenue was fighting with him Physically in training. Sometimes I mean I didn't I never got to that with me. I I respected what he did. I I understood the importance of a team but certainly it was Molesting the club must have just a little a little line on Janina and training training. Yeah I mean I I. I'm not sure how many of our listeners of us remember that what you need me. But when he came in it was it was on the ground just doing simple dribble through cones drills. That was like wow. We don't do very very quick. Dry Dynamic The biggest hot I mean he was Bernie posted while Kyle so his skills and abilities he wanted to come to Middlesbrough. He wanted to do well and he did too. So I can't speak highly enough and we all got. Who's your favorite player from the best place to be played with Janina by a mile for what he did club and he's not the chewed is hot. But you're right and I I. It skills and ability and quickness was was stunning to you. Thank you that's great About a challenge in your career. How's dealt with that I'll talk about a challenge in my career. That will also be me. Educating my English mates on what? A trade is I know muscles an American and you know huge huge patriots fans so he understands rates for sure. I was also drafts so I got drafted to Columbus out of out of college. I decided to leave school early. I had a chance to go play in Portugal before college decided not to do that. And so when I landed on Columbus. I had kind of quick rise after really bad. Start where the coach didn't like to play young players. It took me almost a fourth or third of the way through the season before I got my first start. The trouble is it was two World Cup. Veterans a Colombian international and and John Arc's was southern midfielders and so finally broke into the team had a great season got into the US side. Second season was was really well. Got The number. Ten Jersey was all going great and my my career. Trajectory was on up. I was getting more calls into the team. I was playing in international tournaments and then we got a new coach Amen to Columbus and and he and I did not see eye to eye. He thought I should defend. I thought I shouldn't It was where my performance in hindsight I can look back and see it now. I was I was kind of. I was believing my own hype and I was getting I was getting too big for my Britches and he was doing me a favor that I didn't accept which was trying to help me get back to being a player that could impact every game rather than having his ups and downs. And only when we were playing well or only when I was getting a lot of touchy as or only when you know things were a certain a certain way would i. Would I be able to take over a game and then disappear on US trying to help you through that? I did see it when I was young. You know you're you're you're in this weird world of like everyday it's tunnel vision next training next game and so sometimes he would do things that would that would really annoy me. But now I see how much is trying to help me. For instance he wouldn't call fouls on training so I would hold onto the ball too much and he was like all right. We're going to show this guy that you can't do it to to set up thousands areas and all this stuff. Sometimes you don't get the calls and so he would get someone to kind of follow me around and kick heart Kick the crap out of me in training every day and it got me really upset and it would get me a couple times. I kind of blew up and he was trying to teach me lesson that I didn't see and so I regret I requested a trade and I remember it really well such a tough decision because I loved Columbus. I bought a home. I was I was creating a life for myself. I was twenty three and was in the US team. Everything was going great and I kind of through this huge disruption in my world. Because I couldn't handle this challenge. This coach was was throwing for me and I remember it. I was in my house getting rid of fixing a light fixture because I was gonna put it on the market and one of my really close friends on the teens. John Walney was up on a ladder and I was. I am by the way my kolding. Aladdin he's up there actually and I got a call up the ladder and I was like automated study and I got on it. It was my agent and he said you know trade went through. You're going to La it's actually. It's actually I two players. It's a combo deal. It's you and John Wall. Nyack four these to La players and John was definitely not looking for a trade and was up on the ladder lesson fixing light fixture. And I was like no because I worked at this trade the only way the galaxy. We're GONNA do it is they. Were giving up a big player but wanted to players and to explain traits. Two guys you can actually buy player. You just want that player. I'll give you this fire for that player. It's it's like playing cards exploration really You called me after the podcast wasn't clear. So then what's crazy about trades and transfers in the same? But there's a whole window. There's time to think about that day. It was like one PM. The call came through. I was on a flight with John that night because the galaxy had a game. The next day we flew in landed really late. Nah Not night met the manager at the time and the GM who was lexi lawless for breakfast and then I was in the La Galaxy Locker Room putting on my jersey. I haven't had a training session yet. We just played three weekends before. Night scored the winning goal. So I was like. Hey guys and I started that night and it was this crazy thing of being thrown into turmoil of like you know how. Pichu our world is same. Drive the practice. You know. Same place that you sit in the training ground in the locker room your your your stuff. The same way the physio. I was meeting people while I was getting my ankle tapes and I do think of like four or five players that James me in that moment because I think other players like listen. Buddy gets like figured out quickly. I've got a game. I'm not going to change the way I prepare. Because you don't know how you know where the where the training and so there were four four or five players that really immediately took me under a couple from the national team that realized how off putting that was crazy it was to be a new locker room and be in such turmoil and yeah. I mean it just goes to show. I'm sure you guys had similar experiences when you moved clubs. It's like that that that that Brotherhood in that commodity. It's it's sort of quick like you have to gets about level with people really really quickly and put a lot of faith and trust in people in a weird way our competition with you at certain moments but like it's this kind of put it all aside. We've got something to do together and I kind of feel like I've been thinking moment because right now is all this like we. We don't have the ability to lean on each other and be there like we normally are and see each other in the in the in the in wardrobe or or in the in the makeup room where you guys in the in the van before the game. So it's you know it's it's nice to remember how good that feels but it's just tough to feel that feeling right now so Calling did you. So the Columbus experiments with the coach did that help you did you take on. Some of the lessons was kind of trying to retort you. Columbus do you change the player based on that experience Now me I think I think what happened was I got a little bit complacent at Columbus because two things one is. I didn't have to be at my best every week to start and I also didn't have to be at my best to get in get into the US team when I got the US team. I was at my best. I wasn't I was disrespecting my club team by not bringing my my highest level because I in a way I was getting away with not and not really picking up on some of these on some of these lessons and then I could go away with the team at n find that level again which is unusual typically. You can't kind of switch it on. Switch it off and so L. A. was just a new challenge. So I didn't learn a lesson. I still was a brat. I still thought that he was against me. But I had a new locker room to earn credit from these guys didn't care what I was doing with the US team or with Columbus like weaken a week out in training. I had to prove to those guys that I deserve to start every weekend. So that that started to bring my best level back and also Beckham Anabelle's ave in some other veterans. That wasn't back. There was a really quiet guy and training. He wouldn't he wouldn't talk much but there was a lot. There was a lot of standards settings through how you performed in how you train so l. l. a. was was just a different more challenging environment with Landon and Kobe and so you Kinda quit and float in La. Like I got away with in Columbus now on likes to feel stuck especially by your cloud but the IBM cloud is the most open insecure public cloud for business. It can manage all your apps and data anywhere smart loves problems. Ibm Let's put smart to work visit. Ibm DOT com slash. Flexible suffered interesting. Came up thank you on the Elsa coming to you in Long Beach California over team my friend. Yes mom. I'm so I'd like to take back to April twelve two thousand nature twenty years ago. Which was the last time compassionate. I kicked to bowl now circumstance you to nominate rural little bit strange in Joe Kinnear before would have a hard time capsule even the full weight on the Norwegian Not Snow Eagle Olsen components of the Obama remembrance bone for wearing Wellington boots and having Fox about how high mountains weather knowle's saying come from me on on Olers maybe would have helped it. Came going netted crime gutters. Fasting crime signed to. We will talk. The way we play on is dry. Am probably when you played with them then. We're going to win the game. Because he can play. I'm going to change them. Evenly distributed off can be defense even an impassive and try the bowl which just don't profiler Time and main him and I was catching in the club at the time. The didn't necessarily get on himself was quite an important game coming up on April twelfth. Two Thousand Plan Schefter. Lenzi is the team and was reserved game being played nine and I knew I wasn't in the fifty lapin. Alexi the minding. Listen if you don't think I'm GonNa be playing you. You didn't know GONNA use Mrs so to play in the musicians and get many thousand kip fitness and hopefully do need many S A great idea. Ans- shield may also went to play Waffen immunizations. Victory Drought in about two hundred people and We we will play not game. All the fish team playing Sheffield Wednesday now. Ten minutes into the march around heading a Bul away. Cronin come out young people in a little bit notices coming John. Jesus he's coming. Punched the Bull Olivetti handed it. I'm we both landed on the floor. And we ended his name. Basically kind of trades through into my stomach and as a time you're just like wow that's really weird feeling mole. China tallied until calls time got time sitting in the dressing room. Shot the situation across. Something's wrong here relooking. My stomach basically went from a normal summit looking local is nine months pregnant and basically in a busy clinical winning hostile so we went to inflammatory quote long story short a kept me overnight discount the next morning I had a bleed Balsam Honey get blood out of a blood transfusion. Knew there was some damage eventually. Six weeks later found out. Toma countries three months in hospital loss for five stone and how to big operation to go to London. On the bay operation had country Song Together Fulton evacuated the job And that was basically ended. If a civil itself it's Kinda funny. How fate choke each? Paul teams have not been walks. But I did go. Walk playing in the game go. An injury that meant advocates kicked a ball again exit sessional level the point. I would say for Mad Max Shit. I'd be really interested in boys would of momentum house not just losing my career that's one thing and Huntingdon respects. That was that made the decision. Easy wasn't like should a play another seasonal now. I couldn't go move on with my life of the mental outside Training grounds seem to the Chad. Jesse name LID embiid pull up and find and enjoyed a lot MC totally isolate taken away from it. No Paul looking forward not knowing what she did. You not understanding what was going to happen next event. It made me think about times. We're not wear people in College. Become an issue way. Maybe play on a team on Wednesday night with you mentioned hoppner anymore and how those things and just being Jesse Elliott. Long career at all snow. Maybe thought that he wanted to do these plan. Create I felt as though about your activity. There was a little bit of the missing mentally. I just made myself busy. I know you need to the names and not too is just a little bit more your lots Donald Final shots in your career playing. Definitely your point you know. Leeann I and roby were fortunate enough to choose. Rummage stopped I mean at a couple of big injuries but ultimately retired thirty six having not much left in the tank Lee definitely have nothing left. Thank you watched any of his finals. Kyle you stop for us the big injury. Can you call an unrolled? You finish you finish your career. And I think there's a definite difference between that inverted commas closure a name being being able to decide and how that impacts on you and verses having to stop with an injury and I think that's a real challenge in it's always concerned me even to this day. There isn't really any of his big thing with long-term injuries and career ending injuries in terms of that support getting them through it in the post traumatic either. They let you inevitably as a result when that happened. I was five so I was coming to the end but I think like everybody. You KINDA WANNA finish on. You'll think years left. I think we'll Graham said really pull no because what I did. Tunisia finished was. I did my coaching badges article. He didn't look didn't shave him. Nigel I just thought my South super-busy away didn't didn't mess it about CEO Foyer Eighty seven day. They not a coup times. I've been to games really started. Sat me on my job back. You know when you've been kid Newcastle. Doing the game was jogging by on the one and he's got the feeling line. I'm no longer the big poll show him? I'm more on the side now. I'm just a little bit of extra year when you the plow Think when you go to games you can often define what's going to happen in the match whether you scored a goal stop go Something or not when you kinda finish you you feel as though you lose a little bit. Hala little strength that it was the same major. You appro in splice roby now now. You're older wiser and have more reflections now. Are you now able to look back at your entire career and see the ending almost all of the story and visible now? Yes because I'm point. Twenty on new realized landed up looking the game and whatever that I did actually that decisions implant Walter of it was called story. Is I think what the differences in Grad makes a great clue. Some plays ended up coming to finish regardless of the position. A promise money. You've got a not while creative. I look at somebody at any interest in and I hope we're not talking about the under these creator yet. Will Jot Wilshire in Kobe? Appoint an example is some ten twenty eight years after he is created many. I think he's GonNa live by fax. Nothing these regrets nothing absence struggles with these lives grows on because the kid we saw domino nineteen. I was thinking while in the one of the great. I didn't quite expect. And it's really important earl and I'm glad you brought it up. We have to be able to have these mental health conversations and fortunately athletes are to talk about it and my I had to stop it twenty eight. I can remember this conversation like it was yesterday the US team. Doctor put a recorder on the table. And we had to record my message with is that that Mike Mike. Professional career was over in. The recommendation of the doctors was even. I couldn't play anymore and like I. It took me ten years to get over that in my still. I still do today in hindsight though I started sobbing in that room partly because I didn't realize it at the time but I show much relief because of what what depression was doing to me at that point. I didn't I didn't realize it and like we. We get into this much world. If we're supposed to be strong or not allowed to feel next game next will get up do it again and like. I think it's really important for young players out there to understand and Jack wilshere. Whatever he's struggling with you. Hope he feels. He's got the support system to say. I'm not doing okay. This isn't well and like I have I. I have a lot of challenges in finding people. I think this climate has been good where people feel comfortable to speak in Sam scared. I'm I'm frustrated. I'm tired I'm angry and like you know I think pausing to consider that stuff is so important and like I wish you know. Part of it for me was a trajectory as a player in a dream all these injuries I had came at these crucial moments when I had wind at my back and reset and so that's hard enough for any player but if I had someone I looked up to that was that was that had a successful career or successful life and showing what. It's like to live a healthy mental life with depression or anxiety or any of these things man. I think it would've changed my career path. I think one of the reasons I had to retire was was. I was so defeated that each next injury took so much more out of me because I didn't have the tools to really get myself mentally fit again so that physically. Those things connected again so. I'm glad you brought that up like speaking about mental. How often and challenge and difficulty is not weakness. That ultimately is the strongest. You could be to be honest about how your before I get to grand. Just want to add one thing that we spoke about three times in the studio with regards injuries in Mrs Injuries. Implies like Wilshire Carol even hurricane at times and away back to the lights down into an who was nicknamed sick notes and. I think that we've talked about this. Actually author maybe one day. We'll talk about more on AC is there. Is this weird thing that humans do around. Footballers Entertainment. It's kind of take the Mickey. It's kind of always injured again that holds and there's an if you put yourself in the position of somebody to Ambi Caracul on Stephon and imagine how it must feel all the way through your grid engine everywhere you go. You're injured and he thought about blowing the club. I guess what you did and we all do it. Oh guess what he's in. Europe is injured again. But we don't actually imagine what it's like to be in his shoes to actually being. Same with John Ralston. It's it is a worry or that mental health and I'm just not sure that the the perception of injured players who are injury prone obviously some humans more injury prone than others Treat defended by the media when it comes to talking about them and often it seen as their full week in some way and they should be blamed. I think that's quite interesting topic that we can explore many on another diet grandmas. But let's finish with them. You will time is shaky grants book. Anyone watching read grams book. Because he could have had a new different ones. He could off today a few interesting challenges in his life. My friend which one picks I think you know in this time where everybody is being affected by the corona virus and the impact. It's had on all of us and drawing on everyone's story is really about the sort of the need for human contact. The need for relationships lead talks about you know a a situation but Bercy is team together might them closer made them more resilient inverted commas on the other guys talking about barriers paw soup careers has been changing big changes and unlike have had to do with us and and for me of US oppose this time of isolation Fula versus. Give me a chance to reflect on. Probably the last time I felt the world was shaken in such a way And that was nine eleven And you know the world stopped. We live in a bubble is sports where the show ways John but occasionally dozen obviously after the tragic events in September of nine nine eleven In two thousand and one on the world stops the Ryder Cup was cancelled. people didn't travel Lots of competitions sporting events were cancelled And it was a terrifying time for everyone I think it's probably in its own way Comparable to now the uncertainty of world events. Mike US feel more vulnerable. And this is the bizarre thing about what we're going through at the moment lose just as we need a new At least questions in these uncertainties so we're being told we can speak to people by You Know Coors Light Vase and you call even shake someone's hand so that emotional human contact is really difficult when after Nine eleven we had a gaming in Israel against Hapoel Tel Aviv and the company has options Six of US didn't go Such sort of plants elise pause about bringing a team together in a difficult time. We'll pulling the same way. Six of US decided not to go to Israel. You can imagine the The public sort of abuse. Omar's three that we got for that on the rats on justify the lot of the media tried to really a divide us as a as a group of a a a a very strong group of players who who had a real unity in on the outside is. We're trying to sort of drive a wedge between us And for me it was. It was that sort of conflict between being desperate to play and be part of my team. My family my full family but also the the responsibility on includes a tight for my family. My wife had just had a second child In the weeks off the nine eleven full the full the match and and it was very difficult. We had two friends. That daughter and my friend's wife was heavily pregnant with that second child who legit south of New Yorker managed to get out and living with us in our house just outside London and it was a hard decision to make it was. It was the most difficult with the choice between my full family and the guys were not about listening the bowl alluded to astronauts bomb. Dr and the personal choices i. It's May on behalf of mind family and my responsibilities to them. And I it just makes me want to really highlights that that sportspeople You know they. They have to deal with on a daily basis as well. We put on a bright facade. Gripe from I think it's called talks about mental health. You know we designed program to perform and and everything that we dating with one side when we step across that white line and I think now's the time the players of the sportspeople whether there Olympia suffering. The disappointment having the Olympics postponed for year other athletes and general people who aren't able to go to work just to take that moment so actually look at what's important and and try to get as much out of time as an because I think we'll be welby call and leave. They being expressed difficult. They think through but we'll come out the other side which a positive reflection on it doesn't mean that completely hill. I know well Lee well enough to know whether it's GonNa be audible to heal him but ultimately the situations we're GonNa find ourselves in that we have to overcome and and this is a great opportunity for us to actually reflect on what's important. I think Carl said the simple things in life really important moment and it just reminds me of that whole experience of what we went through Only upside off of that time we've played lead united one of our biggest rivals. Leeds United when when Applied Chelsea and the response of the whole group was absolutely incredible. We've never fought for each other more than we gave that weekend when we all got together and we valued each other and valued the fallen. An actually all of us. I think was strong before it because those plays that went I respected. We'll respected and the six of us. That stayed behind fell valued when the team came back As we did before we had to make that decision that we weren't going to go so it was a very challenging time and there was a lot of things we have to deal with but but out of it we we all Took something positive and became. I think stronger for it. It was manager then. Gray narrowly which was the coach and the difficulty rose. Ten Bites at a lot of bravado. Is the chairman And he he decided that that guy was gonna go ahead you I for we the only game that wasn't a postponed or played in neutral territory. And you know this was Israel so it was a at the time. It was very much from senator of some of the things that were being spoken about around. Nine eleven The Minister Petroleum was assassinated when the plane obscene were in the flying's retrial. And and so. It was a very serious serious time. The Foreign Office do not travel on. There were lots of things and signals and reasons why nobody should have gone but we have to do with the situation of a what we're seeing from the outside as divided Rushing them before before we wrap things up good Graham just from your point of view. Also tweet Rachel. Came from the football. Cloven footballers viewpoint vote for somebody like yourself. Who's in a role model for housing standards? Hosting shows slides in studio live side is many instances it mule career special created a situation. Now yes a couple tougher being terrified but every to mind feature on my knees nick to knocking together the Very Front. I have to do this somehow. Managed to The the one the situation you guys will remember eight years ago to the day. White Hart Lane Bolton against ethical final and I was presenting the show from a pitch deck with the guys do now when all that has the pitcher with Joan bonds and Kevin Keegan. Espn U. K. And Jon Champion was a commentator with. I think Craig Buddy and it was you know very late and I saw about thirty eight thirty nine minutes and Moamba went down and we were actually Cecil Observation seats which literally behind and Tottenham Dugout to me a few a few yards from the pitch and we were sitting there watching all kind of debris titan squeezed out. We knew that something was going on because he being down while and you just know situation I've got you get that sense nuclear that something's not right. Hit to the point to which we were to normally would be told. Get Out of our seats. Go take oppositions about forty three minutes and it was about thirty a producer. Go Now UNICO now so we had to cross in front of the dugout. She's never fun and over to where the desk was about faith symbols and then we'll basically happen from then on was one of those kind of Kind of fighter flight really your body just went into autopilot and I had to go on ad within a few minutes of that happening because he was taken off the pitch and Jon Champion through down to me and then we were with Kevin Keegan John Bonds and I had absolutely no instead not huge amount of instruction of Halloween. We're going to be on the on annual ended up being about an hour. Now we go to break a few times but obviously ESPN because it's difficult to find those huge game. There are a lot of producers that they will have the guts and those people had come from the hospitality in the stadium. Spray way back into the trucks in order to help reduce the show there was a lot of producers trying to shovel those listening in the US. We have opened back in the day. Which means you hit everything. All the time. Every graphics operates up every every director the egg county effort so I had a bone in my ear. I I have this and that contrasted with a solid white hot man. Sort of fans still Dame it's going to be a bandage John Boehner very much not gonna come through a similar thing with one of his players not vivien-foe and who had gone on International Jeet Singh anisette similar situation happened and heaven was getting very very emotional as this was going on so I was kind of dealing with both John. Kevin know that his family because it was a Bolton play on their playing away a very good chance was I happen to interviewed. Moammar anew yet. A young Kid Omega to and I quote the child's of his wife and children coming all the way to why we're probably slows as good Johnson watching our. Tv's this so responsibility to make sure that I was grow costing her as well as maybe business family as well as the Gym Republic and it was it was hard I mean it brings Chivas to my sign now. It was really difficult right. The right tone between not being too because thank God he. He went on to survive an eastern Brennan late. But of course for a long time it did look like that was going to be the case. We kept getting sufficient information about which specific Nettie decent. You Information I. I have to always expand fill time without making it. Sound Frivolous is really difficult to strike that tone. Go into brand coming out with break reestablishing what happens. Getting facts right. What minutes to go down what we know so far. You will just shooting in because it goes. I knew we were the only company that had the end so there were people tiny on ESPN U. Crap all time to find out what was going on. We eventually optimizing our cool surface. The producers told me to end the show and obviously none of this was written completely athletes and trying to end the show rounding up. Something happened and saying goodbye and making show didn't sound too sad to mobile APP but I did still fake thank Was was far away. The hottest I've ever done and then as soon as we came back I have to go on and this is unprecedented because ESPN UK of those days to sky. I went on strike schools news with the bus by not busy news until school because I was kind of the anyone on C. So I had to a whole ream of interviews. Thought back to the truck at a lot. Sugar very quickly to try to calm myself down then drove home in a state of panic. unaccountable chauffeured thing so joan bonds and Kevin Keegan buzzing. The white however will not saying whether it's the back that night still in shop and terrified to wake up. 'cause I didn't WanNa know what happens as I said he somehow somehow survived and then about nine months later. I was hosting England under twenty one game at Carrow road. Espn UK and he was my guess because he's hanging on the twenty one. I never told him. The I was the one that was presenting the show but I was just like I found myself just looking at him. During the game like disobeys without that one wonderful people out of the many sons such amazing. But it's certainly a moment in my career where I never thought has to go into news mode real real real fuss property used by NC. So talk with you this this long I know that We can fight like brothers and sisters but there's probably no better person to be in that chair in that situation to do that right. I'm sure you were fabulous. Act Thank you may think you itself. The things like that in the corona virus than pay full housing human significance. A bit. Like now. We're talking about you know great. Is Flu Pool Tile? It just seems quite second between the conversations. Now that's it wrong knows each week goes on learning normal people who are suffering and struggling with this awful disease. It's awful condition. Everything seems to pile more more So you know. I know what's the thought of you guys to say that thinking of everyone who is sick on the family members of those on everybody who's struggling in already gone through this and we'll we'll continue to go through so. I know I said everybody love and support out there and we thank everybody for listening and tuning in. Thank you guys for sharing with your really interesting interesting insights into China members in your career and please make sure you subscribe or EPO. Cost to the Premier League on NBC. Podcast we will be hit back here next week will also be only NBC Sports Youtube Channel. So make sure you join us for that. Gentlemen it's been a pleasure as always we shall speak again next week I made.

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November 7: They'll take dollars, but they're after change

As It Happens from CBC Radio

53:38 min | 1 year ago

November 7: They'll take dollars, but they're after change

"This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Carol. Hello I'm Karen Gordon. This is as it happens. The podcast edition in tonight's take dollars but thereafter whereafter change. Compensation is fine but the lawyer for two accusers of disgraced Canadian. Senator Don Meredith says they really want an overhaul of the system system that failed them telling tales out of school a Canadian University's Student Union suspends a Chinese Club because its members passed information to the Chinese government government about a campus event featuring an advocate for weaker rice credit. Where credit's Overdo? The Prime Minister of Antigua and Barbuda says Harvard University City owes his country more than a debt of gratitude. It does reparations to his people a long-awaited reboot and you deal. Means Australia's women's and soccer team currently ranked eighth in the world will now get paid the same salary as the forty four th ranked men's national squad the buck stops there the small all town of mcadam New Brunswick is growing because of an initiative where people don't pay top dollar for property. They just pay one dollar and service with a smile. A New York Times are critic says too. Many people are crowding in front of the Mona Lisa to take selfies so he wants to that painting. That doesn't move him to be moved as it happens. The Thursday edition radio that urges you to stop in the name of blue. It's been six years since the first first accusations against former Canadian senator Don Meredith surfaced but reports that he harassed staffers with a subject of Senate committee meeting today. Mr Meredith resigned signed back in two thousand seventeen this summer. The Senate ethics officer ruled that he had engaged in behavior constituting harassment and sexual harassment. Now the Red Chambers Internal Economy Budgets and administration committee is considering financial compensation for his accusers committee member. Graham own sound dramatic spoke coke with the CBC before this morning's in camera meeting it's a shame. It's a shame on the Senate as an employer to take that much time not to who have been proactive in tackling. The situation you know merits office was lip tournament. You know not. Great number of employees royal were changing word becoming sick work complaining amongst then woman young women. And what did demonstration do and with the time decent odder beautiful young girls. There was a nation there. Senator Ramon Sarah Mass speaking before a closed-door meeting about potential payouts Out For staffers. Who say they were harassed by former senator Don Meredith raw stewart is a lawyer representing to Mr Meredith's accusers? We reached him in Ottawa. What is the nature of your clients accusations? Against on Meredith I represent women first of all. That was was a staffer in his office and her allegation is that she over. A period of a number of months was a victim of unwanted gestures easters and touching probably best described as physical and sexual violence. The second woman doesn't make any direct allegations of physical or sexual contact but certainly says the toxic work environment where she was routinely intimidated and bullied by the senator. And what is their reaction to this idea of of The Senate giving cutting check basically and giving some kind of financial compensation to the alleged victims of Don Meredith. They find it rather rather disconcerting in the sense that the first of the women who I talked about made a complaint to the Senate in the late twenty thirteen and has run up against this institutional entrenchments if I could call it that in that she both of them really have been routinely not spoken to ignore their complaints. Haven't been taken seriously seriously. And it's only very recently that they ever even raised the issue of financial compensation. Quite frankly they're concerned was there was no institutional to settle organization within the Senate to monitor senators behaviors or to respond to that and there was nothing to really realize that the staffers in me Senate off is that. We're facing a real significant situation of a power imbalance that if they made these complaints that eight and we're going to get listened to or alternatively talk different certain was they weren't going to be employed very long because they would simply be dismissed and forgotten about. CVC reports that it appears that there's a split in the Senate committee members are calling for the matter to be to be publicly aired but others who want this to be a quietly handled Pay Payout and all done outside legal counsel or where where does where do your clients. Where do you stand on these? These two Poles Mike coins have been absolutely clear with me that they have wanted from day one. Some transparency to this process one of their biggest concerns the legitimacy of the Senate as an institution solution is really called into question when these types of egregious behaviors can go on and there is no transparency at tall. It's been almost an exclusive use In camera hearings. I think that that would help. Clear the air. Everyone I think would be interested in having a full in public airing of these allegations. Because that's never occurred in the last almost six years there was another Accuser I've I've I've done meredith. She spoke anonymously to CBC ABC News and She said that the Pale to this kind would be perceived as accepting shut up and go away money. Do you share concern. I think that is a concern of certainly the two women that I talked about and that they don't want to be seen as simply doing this for money. Damages to accept that money damages could provide some level of compensation. I think that's appropriate. But both of these women have been very clear with me from the outside that they are really lobbying for some institutional change here to make sure that these types of activities won't happen again in the future the seems to be What the senator is saying that tape clip? We heard at the beginning that the question raised here is not just what happened to these women and what happened in Don Meredith Office office but that what was the Senate up to and that the fact that appear to be revolving door of young women who were going into that the two jobs in the office and and leaving and then more would come at that at some point. Somebody should have noticed that there was a problem there. Is that something that your client site. Well well absolutely and if you bear in mind. The parallel investigation when this began was the allegations of Senator Meredith having an inappropriate sexual relationship with a teenage girl. which it's really I think was the impetus to lead his resignation at twenty seventeen? One of the frustrations of my clients have experienced. Is that one senator. Americans retired in in two thousand seventeen. The overriding was fortunate. We got there really wasn't any longer a problem. Because he was longer senator. There was many many people in the Senate the new exactly what was going on and chose to do nothing about it and see what seems to be an issue though as far as doing any kind of probe into the what happened in the office. What happened within? The Senate is cited by the ethics officer who finally came up with this report in the summer and The Ah the ethics officer said. He was unable to conduct interviews with some senators because they claimed privilege. So how do you do that. How does how do you think the Senate could deal with parliamentary privilege if it was to do an investigation of this kind well with all due respect that people might hold the contrary view? I would have to be convinced how. Parliamentary privilege can be extended to these types of allegations. Certainly my understanding of parliamentary privileges have it would extend to the senators. Exercising citing duties have felt within their functions as senators. But I think that it's a rather blatant misuse of the concept of parliamentary privilege to suggest that they couldn't cooperate. Operate with the Senate ethics officer or provide information about events that they were seen on a daily basis to my clients made direct complaints to other senator is about exactly what was going on the offense. I simply don't see. Parliamentary privileges is is an excuse or an explanation for doing nothing about it. It does seem so though today this meeting that the Senate committee that they agree that people feel that. There's something wrong here and that something should be done. Does that indicate to you that the Senate is ready to change. I certainly hope that that's the case. One of the interesting things here is that from order standing that the Senate committee is working now on fashioning anti harassment workplace policies but the one group of people that have never been consulted by those policies. All of these are the actual victims of these acts. They'd be I could go as far. I think for both say they'd be static if they were out to do that. I believe it there Mr Stewart. Thank thank you thank you well Stewart represents two women who have accused former senator Don Meredith of harassment. We reached him in Ottawa. Harvard University has long been criticized for its links to slavery after all it was built through the proceeds of an Antiguan plantation. Now the school is facing facing new criticism not just for its past but for its current debts. According to the Prime Minister of Antigua and Barbuda's Harvard hasn't done enough to compensate his country for for that troubling past. So He's written to the university demanding reparations saying it's treatment of his country is quote shocking if not Immortal Unquote Gordon Brown. As the Prime Minister of Antigua and Barbuda we reached him in. The capital. Saint John's Prime Minister Brown. What debt does the success of Harvard Law School? Oh to slavery. Well first of all this issue of reparations is not one in which we are trying to solicit a gift awesome for aid in essence it is compensation to Astore Equity and Justice. And we believe that this Sunday historical fact that they have them law school benedict trump the profits generated from that exploitative system of slavery that they have a moral obligation to assist us to build capacity and and. I don't think that they have really taken seriously. In fact I think they have been very disingenuous with the responses. Can you tell us a bit. More about Isaac Royal Royal Junior. This is the man who founded Harvard Law School. What did he do Antigua and Barbuda? Well you know he obviously this league this morning that it states came down thiga operated plantation. Here in which he enslaved phobias made enormous profits it and that repeated those profits United States. Glad hundreds of acres of land which subsequently bequeath to have it disestablished the law school. And we all know the conditions onto which m slaves family of the main. They were living in inhumane conditions. You've heard about the uprising in seventeen. Thirty six in which they literally executed It it of the enslaved people here an Antiga tortured them and executed. Did absolutely so. There will inhumane circumstances for the last maybe five hundred years in which is is literally treated as less than human. Now I'll issue goes beyond that. The issue is about compensation for illegal and and that is weird. Jerry claim is made we say they worked and the auto compensated under should be paid. And you know this movie argue that okay all forbid no longer live but guess what we want inherited it and we're saying that some settlement and this is because of the wealth that as royal junior was able able to build for himself with his sugar plantation in your country and you have written to Harvard University stating your case saying that. It's shocking talking. If not immoral what happened and you have asked for this reparation. What has been the response so far from Harvard? Well really I think it has. I've been somewhat of a disingenuous response. They said that for example The move the shield bearing the name of Isaak or yell and that he had replaced it with a stone to back the contributions of people But that does not go far enough. Harvard President Lawrence Back L.. Says they are working to recognize the role of slavery in the creation of the law. School and he said there were more steps that they would be taking. I take it to unite impressed. I am not remember that we have been trying to engage them now for two years. Had My embassador Ron Saunders. On Bassett president to the United States right to hover. I can twenty sixteen we now in two thousand nineteen they would have had enough time to study the issue and to engage us. Rethink that at a minimum dish should be extending a you know some form of family engagement so that we can discuss you know how we we can resolve this issue arguably and again I repeat we are not acting Harvard. Correct us a check of twenty million dollars. What what we're saying here is that having any visited some the wealth of phobias? They have an obligation no to assisted descendants to build capacity capacity and we have a university. We feel that we could collaborate with them and to help to build a university here so that we can advance so you know the educational achievements of people so that we can be more competitive. Is there a dollar figure you would put on that well. No I wouldn't want to do that. I mean clearly. It has to be dialogue between the government and Harvard. I come to consensus. That is money that they should this. Financial compensation not just recognition. And that you're looking for well. Look it doesn't necessarily have to be financial compensation meaning to also. A number of scholarships scholarships antique isn't Bobby. Vince not cost him anything and then it helps to deliver irritant now this long-standing issue and let me say irritants for them but it's a serious issue for us in which is saying that we have to pursue this issue proprietary justice so that it could be some restoration of Kuti on just to go back to recognition of the role that slavery has played in the building of the school they in addition to that stone plaque that honors unders. It says the enslaved whose labor created wealth that made possible the founding of Harvard Law School Harvard as recognized that the crest of the school was actually that of the family that round the plantation. And they have now dismissed. That is there more that you want to see them do in order to recognize the RAW. Aw It's slavery played in building the school that doesn't help restore equity in any way. I mean it's an acknowledgment. However they need to go further again re era poor developing country and if for example? We didn't have the extraction of all at wealth over the centuries. I'm twenty bobby. That will be in a wealthier country out. People that have been wealthy would have had well established institutes. In fact I tell you. It's not one of the reasons. Why the Caribbean it's so vulnerable to hurricanes is because they don't have the type of finances in order to build climate resilient balanced structure homes? uh-huh it'd been left literally poor and destitute than those who benefit directly from the let certain tiers of our swab years. They have an obligation. Does this Prime Minister Brown. I appreciate hearing about this. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you thank you very much. Just guessing Brown is the prime minister. Stir of Antigua and Barbuda reached him in the capital Saint. John's and there's more on this story on our website. CBC DOT CA SLASH AI h Forget about how she's smiling. It's where she smiling. That's the issue Jason. Jason Farrago says it's time to move the Mona Lisa. He's an art critic with the New York Times and he's published a piece about the Leonardo da Vinci masterpiece attracting throngs of people people to the Louvre in Paris. According to the museum eighty percent of its visitors. Are there to see the Mona Lisa. Mr Farrago calls the painting. A security hazard heard an educational obstacle. That isn't even a satisfying bucket list item. And he's suggesting that be moved to its own separate pavilion. We unreached Jason Farrago in New York Jason. First of all for our listeners who have never visited the Louvre and never gone to see the Mona Lisa. What is the scene around her? It's a mob scene and one that seems to get busier and busier every year. It's one of the largest rooms in the museum and the Mona Lisa stands a free standing wall in the middle of the gallery. And you get there through a long long quarter of Italian painting with some of the greatest masterpieces in the history of western art that are relatively traffic relatively uncrowded. And then you turn and use cover here at before you see it you discover masses and masses of admirers Josh. Many of whom are willing to wait twenty minutes thirty minutes in order to get as close as they can to. What is incontestably one of the masterpieces of Western painting? But it's a a little bit difficult to see him all right. Just stop you there. Now you've said in your article that this lineup to see them only the spirit would make the spirit airlines aligns boarding process. Look like a model of efficiency. I've never flown spirit. That sounds bad. Why is it just because it's just inefficient or is it because they're just so many people well first of all in one of the most beautiful museums and one of the most beautiful rooms in all of us beautiful museums the world? It's a little disorienting to see. You know those black retractable attractive barriers. You have at the check in counter at an airport. It's a little incongruous next these beautiful paintings by Titian and Tintoretto and Veronese by Leonardo. Of course course as well so you have to line up there to separate queues And I believe that you will probably wait around fifteen minutes on a good day. I'd say to get from the back of the queue to the front and when you're in the front you're still not really face to face with the Mona Lisa. You were still a solid ten and feeder so away. That's just close enough to sort of have her peeking out over your shoulder if you're there to take a selfie and progress anybody who wants to take a Selfie I take itself every now and then but for scrutinizing the painting which is a relatively small pick things it's totally insufficient and you don't want to monopolize time there. You actually aren't allowed to monopolize the time there because there are guards. who have the dollars but totally necessary responsibility of keeping everybody moving along uh-huh left after having gone through all of that as you point out that it has been? The Mona Lisa is has been voted. The world's most disappointing attraction beating out checkpoint Charlie the Spanish steps and that urinating boy in Brussels so just how disappointing is this wonderful portrait of sixteenth century. Talion Art of course it is I would never say otherwise. But it is moved beyond being a work of art and it's become this kind of relic this holy icon for people and it's always bounce to be disappointing when you go from the fantasy but you might have of this from the images that you might have seen the chew. The dull reality of the crowd and of the line and the security. I think it's important to insist that in twenty nine. It's very a difficult even to understand the Mona Lisa as a work of art that the theme of this painting so exceeds its appearance and your visual experience when you are the chance to finally look at the same thing. It's almost if you can't see it at all. People seem to be disappointed when they get into this. uh-huh is that they have a larger than life understanding of something that is frankly a relatively traditional portrait from sixteenth century Italy. That's no longer. It can be appreciated that way and she because it's become a meme it's become an advertisement very product on t shirts and Coffee Cups and we as you point out in your and your article that the call it. The Kim Kardashian of sixteenth century Italian portraiture the little unfair for saying so. It's a wonderful. Oh painting of course it is but you know Kim Kardashian is also quite beautiful but no one can necessarily remember how Kim gotta famous as she did and I think NCR with the Mona Lisa. It's a little bit similar. Your suggestion is that just get her out of there. Just give her own pavilion. Give her own space. Let people come in do their self with her. Maybe get the United Arab Emirates to sponsorship. But just find her another place of sizes a little right. That's right and I understand very much. I sympathize with the fact that the lose has a problem that most museums would dream of having right. It's wonderful to have this many people coming into museum especially people who might be visiting a museum for the first time. What I worry about is the experience of seeing the one painting that they've come to see the one painting that they know the most is? He's actually going to put them off in the long term. And so what I imagine. And it's something that Luke curator's have asked themselves about in the past so they've never followed through on it but I imagine is that the Mona Lisa could have her own room. Perhaps it's in the palace of the Lewis. I think it would be better. If it was pavilion. freestanding pavilion near the Lou. And perhaps finally we could accept the fact that this is no longer a painting that this is an icon icons religious objects. Essentially House be treated in different ways from okay. You've had I think tremendous reaction to your article in the New York Times and Andy's and some mockery. There is a article in in cut. That said The Mona Lisa should just get bangs. And this will solve the lose overcrowding issue because everyone who sees her. We'll just immediately run out to get bangs. She is an icon in that way and as been a fashion play and has been a symbol for artists from Sean famous. Put a mustache ask on the Mona Lisa to Japanese artists. Like more and more who posed drag as the Mona Lisa she exceeds the frame and has has become something that is so much larger and so much more enduring than this one single painting in many ways. It's the image of the Middle East are mark shared idea of the Middle East that the icon and this poor small painting a beautiful poor small painting is the one. That's really suffering. You might be impossible to solve that problem that you have to lose again to try Jason this great to talk to you. Thank you thank you so much. That was Jason Farrago an an art critic with the New York Times we reached him in Manhattan to see pictures of the crowds at the Louvre and linked to his article visit our website. CBC DOT CA Slash A. I H H on March tenth but quality parental was late his employers were angry. They sternly pointed out that his lateness was unacceptable. Optimal Mister Peres defended himself. An argument began things that should have been left unsaid. Were said and when it was all over so as Mr Paradise career he was fired or to leave and never return last week. Australia's Fair Work Commission ruled that his dismissal was unjust and unfair. The company Selective smash repairs must pay squatty parental more than ten thousand dollars in compensation and her decision. The Commissioner wrote quote there is insufficient context context before me to explain why arriving late for dinner would have been a valid reason for dismissal unquote and we might not have been clear. Mr Barani wasn't late for work. He was late for dinner. That's what started the argument that escalated to the point where his furious parents fired him on the spot. Oh Oh yeah. I should probably should've mentioned that too. Selective elective smash repairs is a family business squatty parentheses parents on it. They're the ones who fired him because he was on time for a meal. Commissioner Sarah Mackinnon concluded that forcing his folks to give their son. His job back was probably not a viable course of action after all. It's pretty clear that the parents are having a bad time. Relatively speaking and Francis on relative so even if he hadn't been fired squally may have quit to spend less time with his family and it Hello Simmer Jeet Singh is a student at McMaster university. His fellow students have elected him to their representative assembly. That's how Mr Singh found himself in a a fight involving the Chinese government and fears of its influence on campus. The story began in February when a weaker activist gave a speech at McMaster. It ended this week. When McMaster Student Union upheld the certification of the schools Chinese students and Scholars Association we reach Simranjit Sing in Hamilton Ontario? Can you take us back to February and during the speech. And what is it that happened. That was of such concern so Choi Knowledge at the event there were protesters who came and They spoke against the speaker and They also recorded some of these events now while it is fully within their right to protest and report events there was Later on a letter released by the Cease Assay. Yeah well. They had down with their names. I on the paper and it has led the actual writing of the papers. Disfavor was sent to the Consulate of China China in Toronto and we felt that the connections between assisting and supporting broadcast may have endangered some Chinese students as well as some eager students at McMaster because if any students who are of Chinese origin for example attended those events it may endanger them and their families their return China like being at the event house is. I'm calling out the elephants. Here rights violation because of House on this action. We felt that the club maybe endangering students and you thought that this action principle and the club you're referring to the the C S S. A.. This is the Chinese Students Scholars Association and They were ones who signed onto it. Was Somebody who showed up at the event who was taking pictures and film but then and made a complaint about the speaker and these other clubs signed the statement of complaint and so how do you know that that in fact the Chinese consulate was involved in this. You don't have explicit confirmation that anyone from the club did the actual structure of event or that the Chinese consulate. I was directly involved in the problems at the however we still have that the club supporting the obstruction of the events. That happened. Who McMaster as well? As than sending a letter to the Chinese consulate was not a action in line with the guideline set aside for McMaster student clubs dogs we we should point out that we have a number of stories on what is going on in Xinjiang province in this is the United Nations Reports have said that there ah possibly a million leaguers and other Muslims who are enforced through to be in detention centers re education centers. But the Chinese students said that this was created in an uncomfortable environment for them. They felt that this week or speaker was violating their rights. Do you have any sensitivity to that while We understand that there's often a gray line to follow in interpreting. You know who may be offended by some sentiments or What actions may be considered inappropriate to our knowledge and the speaker was simply speaking about events? That are curbing that are verified by many different organizations source that clearly show that there is in fact as you stated more than a million people held in detention to essentially be reeducated and and Prevented from practicing on religion or culture so while this may be uncomfortable it is important to have open dialog and discourse and Allow people to speak about those topics so that we can come to. Conclusions together is on what the best course of action. The Embassy of the People's Republic Republic of China in Canada has reacted to this. Put out a statement saying that they were not involved in the students who complained about this and wrote that letter and they. They said that that the students might be supporting their efforts to fight the quote the evil the three evil forces in China of terrorism extremism separatism they resolutely oppose any country. Are anyone providing support of any kind to the Xinjiang separatist forces and they. They strongly support the Justice Justin Patriotic Actions of the Chinese students. What do you say to the Chinese Embassy So it is clear that China estate that doesn't allow free expression beyond certain bounds. The the government is considered acceptable so the Chinese government essentially while they may stay There was no coordination and I I will confess that we do north of proof that there was specific coordination between the CFO. Say at McMaster and the Chinese government Evidence by human rights organizations have shown as well as journalistic institutions have shown that there are other. She has to say that have had direct support by the Chinese government whether that's direct subordination or monetary support and I will also stress thought UCS ASSAYED TASMA contradictory statements. They say for you that they had no coordination and they said they did have coordination and then now I believe as they had no coordination this McMaster one specifically so wildly China's ever in May state that there was no coordination we believe that's just a affront they put up to Covering the fact I would say from the information hand that they're likely was coordination and this coordination ordination could endanger some students as well as other individuals who may have attended that event and were simply there to speak their minds and your information about what is distressing occurrence occurring in June joint problems in China and so successfully. This club has has been decertified at least for the time being We reached out to a number of McMaster students who were concerned about how this this this event it happened there. They refused Stephen. have their names broadcast for fear of repercussions. Why do you think those students afraid? I honestly don't the whole I'd also say that without their support like we definitely could not have done this. I was only one part of a large group of students who look at the situation and found. Something has to be done So I don't blame the students for not wanting to name because If they are shown to be involved in this could definitely put a target on their back. Even though it's unlikely individuals any necessarily happen to them they're still that a threat so I certainly do not blame those things because I I see their concerns. It's it's very troubling that if you have family living in another country that simply your One statement here there can prevent you from being even allow access or can cause in potentially cause you to be detained return so I definitely do not want me named In relation to this all right. We'll leave it there Mr Singh. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you thank you so much. Have a great day. Simranjit sing is a member of McMaster University Student Representative of Assembly. We reached him in Hamilton Ontario For Litany of convictions the longest sentence ever handed down by the International Criminal Court. The Congolese rebel commander Bosco. Gonda was convicted by the icy sea in July of Murder Rape Sexual Slavery and more now the court has sentenced him. I'm to thirty years in prison back when the man known as the Terminator was first convicted. We spoke with Joel Mowbray Sangha. He's a researcher with Amnesty International. Who grew up in the North Kivu region of the DRC where Bosko to Gondar was active? Here's part of his conversation with as it happens. Guest Host Robin Bresnahan He. He was very And he was seeing like an invisible an invisible man who would never face Jersey's actually he. He was justice himself so he would save and kill without no consequence He was like a small goat in that region. It's it's very difficult to really tell The feeling the one can have a knowing that has that. He's now going to spend Kamini may be his whole life in in prison. It's just difficult to to believe in your work. You have spoken to survivors of the crimes committed by his militias. What have they told you about what he did? And yet they they were very disparate Mostly about he situation but because at that time he was still due in Goma commanding the army they told about the this book about him As a someone who was you you know a terrorist In the literal sense of that word would kill without you know without any feeling unt Anita great and you know some somebody who was also fed by his fellow soldiers. Did you ever meet him him. I met him twice in Goma But I did not have a chance to speak to him but I just remember you. You know when you would meet his His is your just you feel like you want to run away. Because it even he's he's face. was an expression of Of Terror Jomo Bear. Sangha is as a researcher with Amnesty International who grew up in the DRC. He spoke with as it happens. Guest Host Robin Bresnahan when Bosco to Gonda was convicted of war crimes in in July today the International Criminal Court sentenced sentenced. Mr Tha Gonda to thirty years in prison A looney can go a long way and mcadam ACADEM- New Brunswick. The village is home to just over twelve hundred people just outside of Fredericton. It would like to be home to more. So it's trying something new to attract more residents selling lots for a dollar now for the first time in fifty years. The population is actually starting to grow mayor. Ken stanic's helped shepherd the successful experiment experiment. Over the past year we reached him in mcadam. New Brunswick near Stanic's a dollar for a lot to build a house on. It's a pretty good deal. Oh How many prospective buyers did you get we've had about Six hundred people Apply for the sixteen. Lots that we were selling and We now have ten of them. Sold and the other sixers spoken for where they what is it all from the region from New Brunswick snake are fine ride. Actually they're far and wide The majority of people that are from Ontario and Quebec. We've had a lot of Folks that were fairly a new to Canada. There was Lady from Jamaica. And when she called she said. Do you have anybody there from the islands. I thought highlands Okay and she said. Well I'm from Jamaica Ny should we do. Have someone the woman that runs our hardware store here. She is from Jamaica and it turned out that they had grown up two blocks from each other and they had all kinds of common acquaintances insist. It was like old home. We I had such a kick out of watching the two of them talk about the people that they knew and they areas that they grew up in and it just drove home. The the the world really is a very small place in India. Yeah we had a couple from India They've purchased a lot. Certainly they were Living in Canada before they purchased a lot so it was interesting for that couple as well because they bring with them a wealth of knowledge and connections to India with future economic benefits potentially the for the village and the surrounding area. So that was That was quite a benefit as well. Newcomers come to your community with ideas and energy it's it's is just fabulous okay. So it's good for Magadan but what's in it for them. I mean location location location right. So what are you selling the lifestyle here. There is a little slower than elsewhere. I've lived in cities all my life so having moved back to mcadam was An interesting move. It was probably the best decision I ever made. In my life. It was moving back to mcadam but rush. Hour here is Three vehicles coming to an intersection and all all three saying well. No no you go first. No no you go first I don't mean to take anything away from city. It's just a quieter lifestyle. We're here that's all right now. What's to stop these people from buying these lots for a dollar and just sitting on them? Not doing anything with it why do you. Why are you convinced it's going to lead to that? Actually people moving in part of the agreement When we put this together certainly we spoke with our lawyers and we dealt with that idea right off the bat the the agreement that these folks sign they agree that they're going to build a house within two years and then if that falls through then they give us Upfront with the purchase. Twenty five hundred dollars to cover legal fees should they not build the house But if they do start to build the house those is that twenty five hundred goes right back to them and it's only the dollar that they're paying for the law and the other thing that we did We were afraid that people might come in and buy the lot for a dollar and then flip them so to prevent that we put a promissory note in if they decided to sell the lot then they would've lost twenty thousand in dollars okay. The village some good incentives there. You're just at your village. mcadam is just about I think seventy kilometers outside of Fredericton Fredericton and we and we know that a lot of small communities are are losing people. They're moving away moving the big cities but wh why did why was mcadam. And why were you losing your population. Most of our population Where young people that were moving to Alberta when the oilfields oh fields were doing really well? there was a lot of folks moved from here how to that locale when you lose your younger generation very few with them come back one of the biggest things we did. Three years ago we started taking down. Old Derelict houses. Well as soon as we started doing that people started moving to the village. So we've sold seventy five houses here in the village during the last two and a half years and our population has actually expanded from them. Eleven fifty to twelve fifty and with the dollar lots that will expanded another fifty. We estimate so. That'll bring us up to thirteen. And then uh-huh expansion of a campground gives us another fifty summertime residents that's about a ten percent growth in your population. I mean I I. I know it's not going to diminish. There's too much of that. That intersects says you go first but it does changing a lot of people to move into your schools and everything are feeling the growing pains. There's always naysayers shares with anything that you're trying to accomplish but I would say probably ninety eight percent of the folks here in the villager quite happy with the growth. The merchants are all experiencing growth in their receipts which is a good for them and good for the community? Have you heard from other towns villages who say hey. Can we take some tips from you. Can you tell us. How are you did this? Yeah we did. We did have one other villager in In New Brunswick they called us and they said they would like to try the same idea. And would we mind. I said no absolutely not We'd be more than then happy to help you with this. We can give you the benefit of our experience. And I think it's certainly something that that the province it could actually look at how to induce People to come to New Brunswick even really interesting idea to go. 'cause you want to get home before rush hour. Yes yes I think caught in traffic. Sarah thank you bye bye okay. bye-bye Ken stanic's this is the mayor of mcadam New Brunswick. We reached him there today. Sarah. Walsh doesn't play professional soccer anymore but she's just scored major win. Miss Walsh is the head of game development with Football Federation Australia this week. The federation struck a new deal. That will see Australia's top female female soccer players. Earning the same pay as their male counterparts and the landmark agreement means the National Women's team. The Matilda's will see other benefits beyond a bump open their salary. We reached Sarah Walsh in Sydney Sarah. How do you and the other Matilda's feel about this deal? I'll feel pretty good. Actually it's Very long time coming in. We're pretty happy with the outcome. Thanks to a lot of I former teammates and everyone's quite pleased with where we landed. What did it take to tweet this deal for pay equity with with with the man in soccer in Australia? Yeah will it's a it's a good question because it has been a long journey and I think that I mean the timing was right. The they've been long conversations but very collaborative ones. There's no doubt that the men of had to really lane in here to to help us reach these these points. So it's it's gray. Two teams have come together to to realize that they have basically imbalances and they've corrected them. When you say the man had the lean in here you mean that they had to make big some financial sacrifices in a way You know I'll go into the financial specifics. But it It's my definitely meant that they've had to mike a few sacrifices to get here but they believe in. The Coles are pretty strong leadership. The soccer reaches out men's national team. Sir It's pleasing that they've come together to realize allies that they both form on the world stage and represent their country and they should be tight for exactly the sign for the hours. I put it under the same employment contract contract and the men's team is the soccerroos right. Yes that's right and you are the Matilda's Matilda's that's right yet. We we love our Nines at the public appointed for the teams and we do a lot of that. All of our national teams have some kind of animal night but now back to this parody does that mean. Does this actually mean that female soccer players in Australia will be the same paid the same as men. Exactly right. They set up a new revenue structure. Where all of the national team generated revenue nine percent of that each year we'll go towards player payments and that nineteen percent split evenly in Lakewood across men and women so the top female gets paid executive same as the top model plan? What's the range with the salary range for players the mechanisms in which they pay paid across men and women different because obviously it's usually the primary source of income for the women and not the case for the men given the solid clubs so men get paid match payments in the women get paid retinas and the top China as a starting point before performance by tyner incentives at the end of the year in? It Sri k eighty three thousand right and the end of the man because there's international events in the pot of money that comes with from fee for all this. There's a lot of money that that's your base that you get right at the end of the day you know the the best fame apply it will be tight exactly the same as the best mild player working backwards from there. But I think what you're talking about is prize money for prize money Obviously we have no control over what FEMA put forward for a while. `Co they have an equal percentage so basically they not hold other. I think the next World Cup is going to be sixty million At place for the women in this about four hundred and forty million for the men in right and that's probably why the discrepancy is however both men and women's tame receive forty percent to actually Mike the knockout round so mike the World. Oh company than if they make the knockout stages to get it gets to fifty percent but essentially with his does for you and the other the other female players is that it pays you a wage that lets to concentrate on your sport. Yeah exactly right. That's what Spain's set up that way and it's not two salaries it's also your travel expenses of the same same hotels. same name premiums everything. Exactly right it's around performance standards or executive signed Sir Both the travel policies accomodation policies. The same they both travel business costs Internationally everything is exactly the same terms of the support staff that they have for tournaments everything everything is mirrored. What does this mean for you just for you personally? What does this agreement do for you? Oh it's it's quite touching that we've we've reached this point because it's it's sexually a framework you could use a crossover Larry's of the game on if you think about opportunities for young girls at the grassroots because it's not just about the money it's about you know the opportunity and we are now providing the Matilda's to be able to play their best. It's it's exactly the same as what we provide for. The soccer is out. What does that look lock at the grassroots for us So yeah it's unreal exhauted by because it's it's set a really important precedent for our game and I'm obviously touched by being a former mathilde. It's it's been a long time I'm coming. I'm disarm happy for the current and future generations. Canada recently signed an agreement that covers two years enough compensation with the women. At least they're satisfied. They obviously want more. You look to the United States and they're going to court in order to try and get some kind of parody. Other countries like Norway New Zealand are reaching pay parody for for the women's soccer teams. Why do you think it's such a struggle to get some countries to agree to this? I mean some of these countries that we talk about not the US soccer but yes. Some of the countries are not in a position financially to Mike these corrections but it does require both genders. They come together in effect the change and if you look at him in the last election you probably never agree. That was really important for us was to agree what would look like because unless everyone agrees to the principles at play it. Fifteen the conversation to that and working back from that. Unless you're doing that. You trading the men and women's differently and not think about them as a holistic contained there is a global movement And I think that it's going to become increasingly difficult for associations around the world to not even start to begin to have conversations and I think that famous players is starting to be more insurance as well the last World Cup that was basically Topic of conversation the station or remote site in the football was Sarah. Congratulations on this and thank you for speaking with us. Thank you very much bye. Sarah Walsh is the head of game development with Football Federation Australia and a former member of the women's national team the

Mona Lisa Senate Senator Don Meredith New York Times Australia Prime Minister soccer senator Antigua Harvard University Chinese government Minister Brown Canada CBC Senate committee Jason Farrago McMaster university United States Barbuda
11. As Florence Welch

As Me with Sinéad

52:57 min | 11 months ago

11. As Florence Welch

"Movies music celebrities embarrassing themselves crooked. Media's weekly podcast keep it has it all each week hosts Ira Madison. The third the weaver tell an IDA Austin adjoined by comedians journalists actors musicians activists politicians and more to discuss the latest ways pop culture and entertainment of intersected with politics and society guests having Kevin Ludicrous Dumbbell Mandy Moore. Angela Bassett busy Phillips and so many more new episodes of keep it drop every Wednesday. Subscribe on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast I welcome to ask me with. This week's episode is somebody who I met only just this year but I'm privileged. Can you need to call them. A friend we met under the uh-huh surreal circumstances. It was in New York where I currently am but we were both there for a party. A museum cold temecula and this person had been on more than one occasion. It was my first time when we met the immediate thing that they did was bend down to my level. They're beautiful dress gracing the floor and sweeping it slightly. But they didn't care they wanted to be at I level with me and to have a conversation where we were both physically weekly equalled. This week's guest for asthma with SINEAD is extraordinarily Florence. Welsh are Florence and the machine one of the things from this conversation that think about all the time is how Florence talks about the only space in which she ever confident and comfortable and without anxiety is onstage. Despite the minute she comes offstage having no recollection of what happened up there. It's because the stage was where it's almost like you all your most seen. Yeah I can totally disappear. You have to push your body through so many things and you have to sing and you pull it faces but none of it matters older kind of worst. I myself become useful or they get absorbed in a liberation for me from this tangle person. Listen what's on my mind this week. Gosh I cannot think for the holiday this is my last trip until the end of the year and I am so looking forward to spending time with friends and family and being present with them. And how do I do that in a more meaningful way next year. But I'm also looking forward to reading a new book. Say Jones is memoir is sitting on my kindle and I cannot wait to dive in but before that this week's episode. Are you ready for Florence. Sitting across from me is a person who was part of my life before I knew them. Part of the the best moments but actually more importantly the most challenging ones. The ones where you feel like it's too hard and you want to give up and you don't think whatever situation you're in is for you and whenever I felt those moments there was really kind of one song that I turned to and it was bizarrely from Snow White Film. But I don't think I'd like to do to the correlations of the fairy tale of my size but it was written and recorded by the person sitting opposite me it was breath of life. That's amazing about the Deep Co.. I left and it was just this powerful anthem that made you realize that almost anything was possible. Which means that sitting across from me is of course the extraordinary floor Florence and machine? Thank you so much this this really such a nice intro. But how do you describe yourself Florence personally and professionally. I've had such a confusing sort of a never knew how to explain it. And especially when you're trying to go through customs systems. It feels like they're trying to trick you. Catch you out What kind of make I know not used to say When I was first coming up and I got nominated for Brit? And they WANNA miss describe it. It sounds like a choir of nuns being thrown down an elevator to show. Pr Must Love We know has two young am and then for a while. I really even wrestled with. I think him is very insecure about because I can make music. I was never trained as a musician. Trained as a singer so even had trouble describing myself as a musician and to really fight to Take that an acceptable. And then I Detroit Smarter Steph and I've in poetry and stuff so I guess I would describe myself as a musician and poet which but it's taken me a while to get to those things because I think you so full of doubt as especially as a young woman in the music industry. What was the moment that made you confident incident to say those things? I just think Just to time yeah and then my body of work now I feel like is pretty solid lid and he could quote requestion other things. We caught me question that there's quite a lot of work. Now there's a law and I think especially maybe on this. Last record hires hope Spent a lot of time before I went in with collaborators all producers really eighty constructing the sound of it on my own and you know shing away he is really badly but You know I think I felt much uncomfortable. The take title of like a musician and producer But Yeah I mean I. I think what I'm Besta is performance really. I think that's where where all kind of comes together with me. All this sort of disparate elements are poetry. And there's music and and there's Islamabad piano playing and three songs learning sunny because he just wants so badly to take ownership over those three because it it was like a big God is literally three nights but I did play them. That's all that's important you know that many and there's no cool changes. This is a person who's who's Florence guest dancer as well so so perform a position. That's not a bad restaurant. Yeah except I did want to be aboard roadway. Yeah that was my first. I wanted to be in musicals which musicals when my granny used to take COSC- Oliver every year. No the ones that is a way to tell you that when you're being greedy and selfish and wanting more that these are the consequence the life of crime. Great Lake Fun but yeah only Oliver. I think I had like I think my I brain exploded when I got taken to my first musical. It wasn't Oliver. Take into the body holy musical actress role and I think as a whole new the world when I started going to see other musicals as a child my life ambition before the age of Tavern was deceased express. And did you get. Well this is. I've done everything I've ever need to I can. I'm good good see I loved. I loved inspire you to learn how to roller skate. Yes it really did. I mean it was written in eighteen so I don't know what they're doing in the brief. It must have been fun when they were like. You know what. We need trains on skates. Doing Glam Rock live. I imagine ads in the magazine. Oh an audition for it. Who is Florence the person? Wow okay that is I think I feel between being someone. Someone who's totally full of wonder and ferry entranced with the world and sees a lot of romance and beauty and joy and then someone who's who's just terrible it's like the two switches in my brain the joy and just like terror of too close together so it flips from one to the other and sometimes I didn't know why I'm probably more introverted than people would imagine and a need a lot of time I am on my own and I think a lot. What do you think of that? Now we've started with might as well What are you currently thinking of that? I'm currently thinking about. I actually find when I'm not making things. I am quite highly anxious. Highly new robotic Yourself or the myself on the world I mean I think it's very anxious time time to be alive right so it is kind of narrative of all these things going going on in the world at the moment that making all of us super anxious and then passed Lang side. He's I think when you've had when you've been an addict and you've had the experience you'll live with this weird fear that someone's going to come and tell you that this new life for this peaceful life you made for yourself is just a lie and we we know who you actually are and everything you built yourself you have to leave it behind and you have to come back to the mess and like everybody knows now in. It's getting better but I think you live with a quite a lot of like imposter syndrome. And if I'm not sort of keeping keeping myself making things or keeping up with meditation and self care I am not truly self critical and I mean I think that's also bits of what we're both Virgos only good so I see myself so much of this. I like to blame name the universe than take it on the personal responsibility because I kind of like to say that. It's it's not my fault that I am narcissistic we'll have traits of perfectionism and over. Think things it is the world in which we live and the time which I'm now I'm not sure is also. Ah What is this. I think. Negative self obsession. That is what I have and if I'm not taking adequate care of my mental health it goes down on super fast and I have to kind of work where we're back to ground zero but was when I read. I think when I went back in the studio to do some work doc post tool and I was making songs again and I was doing work I came out there. I realized I hadn't been anxious once and you know I think I think for the first time in my life because I'm not drinking or taking drugs getting much more clear on what I feel. I'm noticing what happens too much easier easiest so I was like oh making things my way out of myself and it's how I see I'm present in the world and I mean I think that's why it stage each was such liberation from you for that hour and a half and studio. I mean th for it used to be drink drugs. Well she's Super Oil the And then on stage that is this. I think you're just a president with your cellphone even in order chatter and the negatives of talk business base where there's no space and I feel that way when I'm making things as well and great food to have effect I'm like really my best but then it's fucked because I don't know how to relax the only way I don't know how to be anxious more after the break. Would you buy a t shirt for fifty dollars. If if you knew that it only costs seven dollars to make I wouldn't with ever lane. You never overpay for quality clothes. Every lane only makes premium essentials using the finest materials without traditional markups. They want you to know what you're paying for. So they tell you. The real costs are radically transparent about every step in the process from the material they use to the ethical factories that they work with. I am a big fan of thoughtful consumerism. 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It even comes with this magic magnetic holder that sticks to your shower the walls you can purchase the perfect razor in the air. GO TO MY BILLY DOT COM to get their starter kit which includes two razor cartridges handle and their magic magnetic older for the shower. It's it's only nine dollars and you can get four refill blades. Every one two or three months based on how often you shave it. Smooth easy to use no nicks and to express a little love for Azmi with Sinead. Go to my billy dot com slash as me for ten percent off your razor. It's a small way you can support us while you're getting the best razor you will ever our own for half the price of razors in the store. Shipping is always free. This is a limited time special offers so go to save ten percent of your razor at my billy dot com slash as me spelled M. Y. B. I. L. L. E. dot com slash a. s. m. e.. How do you practice that time? Being present when it's not on stage or it's not in the studio I ask it of bio need for advice. You have it's it's I've been doing transcendental meditation for nearly five years now and that's been hugely helpful. I actually had Caridi buildings yesterday and I get sting income dying the funny thing. I'm trying to unravel my anxiety at why it happens when it does does and I was having my family over for dinner and suddenly I couldn't breathe but I know I'm having a panic attack really but I also really want someone to me. I in case you just just in case but my my hands go tinguely my lips not angry CADY I. I think that it's very serious. And I'm about to die and I have to let lie on the floor. And even the problem with being the family drama Queen. I wouldn't know what you the Family Trauma Queen is your even. If it was seriously boy cried wolf. You'll be fine just attack. Trump should be dramatic but Luckily like it also is like my sister just comes and sits with me and she's like well. I will take two hospital but you are breathing. Casinos speaking on that kind of shook me up and what happens is it does pass it but then actually you quite on edge after those things happened but I did. I sat and transcendental meditation. And you think this isn't gonNA fucking work. There's no way this this can help but I just tried to hold onto the mantra. I fell asleep so that meant. Meditation has been one of the most powerful practices in my life. And I think also when I'm being really unpleasant to have like a practice which I don't know what I'm saying to I wouldn't say I am religious. Gist but I think especially when you've been in addiction and in which is kind of like self hatred and so much self hatred in that so much but we're talking about negative self obsession to hand over your feelings something that's just not you so I'm just like whatever not me because I Florence not fucking into this world I just sit fit and just ask for help yourself I just also help please. I don't have this. It seems to be my brain that is creating this need. Need something bigger than me and outside of myself to help me kind of overcome this and then it all seem worth ease. Yeah but I've been having nothing like panic attacks. He for as long as I can remember remitting. Yeah if it was happening at school. Was it something that your own kind of classmates understood. Good I'm conscious that our our understanding our language around mental health particular has drastically improved. Still not where it should be but it has drastically improved in recent times games but I imagine five years ago ten years ago. There wasn't the same space I didn't know what it was. I think you totally totally right. That definitely wasn't the language for that. There is no and there was it was more like a coup the self loathing attacks like just get overwhelmed with shame. It it was like my whole self would be like soaked in shame and rage and I can kind of remember it from when I was so young and like repetitive. Intrusive thoughts that I couldn't stop and I had from quite an early age but unfortunately growing up in a family where you're seen as the emotional one. I was almost seen as historical I think. But that's also easier. When you're a woman to be characterized as such I mean I mean? I'm Irish living within shame. Well it comes with your passport. Did this happen to me. Because I don't remember member being for a very religious guilty. Come out the deep founder years ago and train. All of my heritage outage is basically Celtic. So I'm in maybe it's inherited so much in common inherited to shame and like so largely generations and generations but it it's tough and it's tough then if you don't have the language not Tony to articulate what you're experiencing but then to figure out what it is you need from others. I really didn't know I had an actually I think a lot of it got lost because because I had quite of disrupted upbringing. And then I think in the times when you're trying to figure out how to self soothe and you're trying to figure out how to manage your feelings. So of my family Kinda evaporated and what had been quite irregular middle class us. Upbringing turned into psychotic version of the Brady bunch is just it was like which I think quite formative time I would have been about ten Having impact I mean it's one of those things where I think especially if essentially she had a privileged upbringing which I really did you know I went through a really good school. We lived in a nice house and my parents were relatively affluent. I think think I find it quite difficult to accept the. It wasn't great because the external stuff. I was incredibly lucky to have the child I did. I really resonate with Do you know the Leonard Cohen Line I struggled with some demons. They were middle-class untamed. I that kind of resonates with me but it's at space of realizing the privileges that you have yeah and not wanting to be on a pedestal or platform talking that have tough exactly exactly I. I also realizing that trauma and pain are trauma and pain and it's not comparative you have to like I'm definitely has It's really interesting because I think because of the sort of refused to look at it that no no it really been that bad because you know like I had a nice house and I had a great good education like an you just downplay it so much. She no but really what happened was that my parents parents divorced and then what had been quite a full house like lots of people around the hottest emptied it totally emptied though both having relationships ships outside the house so they sake really full house had been for the friends and family was suddenly like gone and many divide. Everyone divides and then if the kind of emptiness wasn't as confusing my mom and this family who had known known for years and years an open friends with he had been widowed and they started having a relationship and so then at some point. We all moved in with uh-huh next door neighbor. But I mean my parents literally. They did the best that they could. And then when I think about what happened they only about my age and all this was going data and if I think about how little I have it together and I don't have three kids and just thinking about how I think my mom had been really like like heart by the divorce and this new relationship was really important but had only been really eighteen months since like the death of his wife says his kids were devastated. We were also devastated a loss and lost so there was a lot of really really really lost. People suddenly all cohabiting trying to build bridges that ever exist before and and I think I spent a lot of twenty s not really acknowledging that a tool and just so of concentrating on the immediate chaos else which was always like my hangovers. Done the night before. Like what terrible person I was and then kind of and I serve it to my thirties and I was trying to have adult relationships and maybe you should have a family of my own that. Oh my God I can't time to reflect a lot of stuff as come up. I think in. I've had to talk to my stepfather because it was a really diff- so difficult we felt really wanted when we moved moved in and he has achieved compared them in quite honest and been like I was an over the death of my wife and you guys presence in that. It was very difficult for me so as I ten year old. You're just sucking up this feeling of like being a one-two being in the way or doing things wrong long and if I feel it now still as if I feel like I've done something wrong or hurt. Somebody's feelings or like I'm distraught. Like they'll go back to the whole like back and I think a little bit Sort of tying it back to the anxiety attack I had. It was because I was back enough enough families that that was quite familiar. How easterby before my parents divorced and I felt this rush of joy that just turned into like whites Hautes Tara and I said Oh? That's so interesting because I find it really hard to like experience feelings of connection and family family warmth without suddenly than being terrified. Because I think at some point that all kind of uprooted for me and it imprint upon us I think it does and it's just like a weird situation. I also don't like the many people who were like because all the kids that we moved in with us to our best friends growing up and then we were brothers and sisters and I had two older brothers. And I'd never Had that before I had dynamic of dealing with brothers I was the eldest sister. What a demotion? I was totally powered. Yeah I'm also I mean I'm the eldest to find you so lucky you got to keep you say that no. I'm my siblings are amazing. I think in many ways because I'm physically disabled a lot of the physical tasks that are given to the eldest sibling. High looked out on not doing told her siblings have to do I was like oh if I could reach. I was got to the stage where regularly shown where the ladder of the footstool go. And do this thing. I was like oh I can't learn to cook. I can't reach the oven. But I entreat each other you define yourself as an introvert mean I've seen you on stage. Yeah I know that's why it's confusing I describe myself as an extroverted injured in the spaces which I feel safest. I'm an introvert. But in order to experience the world in a often accessible astle way I have to perform educate people about my own lived experience in order to be allowed to walk so I t shirt between this this dual identity feeling just wanting to be me an isolation and spending time with me but then also having to be a mediator for other people. Yeah but how do you do you feel more of an extrovert on stage or is it a cocoon that you're in stages I feel like there's something that comes onto the stage with me that that I wish I've been trying to find ways to access in my life. Is this thing that comes with me and can hold spaces. I know to hold a space and I think it's almost that thing you know when I'm anxious arm praying for that thing. That's bigger than me to come to help me is it's it's almost when I stepped onstage thing. Is that wait waiting like okay. We're going to do this and it and it's so relaxing into a bit and it's always when I'm I'm so relaxed when I'm not trying too hard the it's weird because the stage is where it's almost like you all you most seen but I can totally disappears. Well I feel. I'm so sensitive and on high alert and quite vain and and Very sort of worried about how you know people see me. What am I doing what did I say the wrong thing? And then I step on stage and I just don't care about that anymore not even vanity like you have to push your body through so many things and you have to sing and you with faces but none of it matters all just older kind of worst. The hearts of myself become useful though they get absorbed in touch should did a liberation for me from this sort of tangled person. Thomas a cognitive dissonance which I enjoy suddenly things that off stage the anxiety and the like restlessness and the oversensitivity suddenly just become so useful. You know and you can Send your energy out to bring everyone to the place with you. You know and collect energy and not having a layer of skin that other people have that helps them to function in daily life which I do not have actually becomes a his superpower But you wouldn't be able to do what you do without that and I take the based on my own expense. I've just come from speaking at a school talking to one of the teachers afterwards. Saying how do you do it. How do you orchestrate and conduct the audience in front of you and not that as the same miss performing but I think it comes into like empathy and respect and that idea that those are two things that I've had to earn which means I understand how to wield it? And if you weren't so cognizant of your own sensitivities you wouldn't be able to write music and perform form in a way that news populations so I try and explain to old boyfriends. I have when I'm not on the floor screaming. They got the job that I do. If I wasn't like you want to be normal that it comes with a cost you know it site kit so it sometimes does make moving through the world as it is which is incredibly the hard and fast paced and brutal and doesn't have soft edge is difficult especially after tour. I could get a little bit like Agra phobic can. I don't really want to be looked which is most vago thing I can ever imagine is the I want. I want to go out dressed to the nines in all my hi Nice clothes but I don't want anyone to look at me to be addressed but don't dare possibly a compliment. I'm glad we're back to blaming the universe I want to go out and platforms and Chiffon and a feather Boa but don't pay me any mind. Continue enough you. ooh But it's challenging and I think exactly as you said. How'd you find purpose in the things that you do when your own insensitivities are? What allow you to excel professionally? My parents sometimes worry about sharing so much of myself yourself in a public way. Immediate exhibiting my vulnerabilities to the world. And how I protect myself within it and whilst you're trying to do work that not only feeds you but actually makes a difference but then at the same time it's just work on his work all of you is. Is it a part of you and like that when perhaps you're like us in certain ways and you move through the world in a different gate then everybody else how would you had you sustain. The two is hard I did come. I had a little bit of a crack on the last American tool and it was just before I start. Do A tour. I feel this insane pressure. Just think conduit and then actually I I had some of the worst anxiety of my life but the thing is every time I pushed through and every time I would get on that stage I would just see love in people's faces and and I was even getting being quite open on stage though I was struggling and I was having a great time in my head and I think people were so kind so loving and that really helped. But it's funny. Isn't it because especially on this record and I gave so much of myself to this album and so many parts of myself that I swore I'd never every even talk about to sing about the and then I think what to do in my life. Is I feel that did used to be more of the split between the person on stage in the person of stage and I think I tried to do is so of course I got famous when I was twenty one an awesome thing which now I look at twenty one year old and I remember My first ever did because I used to chop my my dad's cl- he has his great collection of Levi stuff and he's freely stylish man and isolate chop up his clothes. Which I'm sure we loved? I just device just arrived at the spur wearing chopped up version. That's close a little pony tail and a big grin. I remember seeing that picture in a newspaper is paper and just looking at it and know that person like goofy young person which is so sweet and for I was terrified I was terrified of being seen and I think that is when I allowed my imagination. Almost to take over I allowed. Ah My love of our an and I just thought if I almost make myself like as if I treat this as I cannot project and make yourself self a sculpture or Rad. I bleach my eyebrows of Silicon Alien. You know I really wanted to dehumanize myself because it was so So afraid of the vulnerability of just being like a Kinda goofy thing. I mean I think I was obviously talented but I was terrified of being in the public sphere and so I think drinking and creating a sort of almost fairytale character that I could live in was like a shield and then on the third record about sort of cracked because it's not sustainable or for anybody in sustainable so that Kinda cracked and then I had to take hike myself. All the way back and so of rebuild but aptly in that rebuilding. What's happened is that I cannot reject what has happened to me? I cannot not reject that I did get famous. Well so you just sensitive like when you're a little let us I getting interviews and I think doing like a Jim TV. And you're something. And I was any it was on the first record young. Sometimes they can be very blunt as they were like. Some people say that this is great. Right some people say that it's contrived all of us they contrived but then if I think about it how can it not be at that age and you're just kind of imagine imagining channing and pulling things together overnight but it's also what you're writing your own experiences such an ability for the outside world particularly if it's a story we haven't heard before or if it's not I think it's a woman story or if it's a minority voice in any way it's so easy to link it to vanity rather than linking it to you elect experience. That's just unfamiliar. It can't reject what happened and I cannot reject the creation either because creation kept me safe like the parts Selena I created kept me safe A period when if I think if a twenty year old getting famous I'm just like it's you know it's quite traumatic being picked apart at the age agent so I can't reject the creation but I also have to acknowledge that behind the there's been so much growth and basically you accept what. Oh you have become a were you bring them together and so I found a way almost for the onstage. Me and the real me to kind of become Herman's Yeah I Mike. I'm his much less tiring. Yeah it happened. Gradually I think getting sober was a big part of the and also getting a lot of recovery from food issues because you just feel like duplicitous. It's all the time because you're kind of in the public high but you also have all these issues you just feel like so scared of people finding how and so like. Yeah because it's visible. If you're uncomfortable what it is you look like it's visible and all of the front page of the paper so it was for like a young young especially. I think why famous I was deep deep hidden stuff in the body. This move year and all that thing and so to kind of be then in the public pathway success gray and I mean I tried all the stuff you you know what I need to be doing the cleanses and getting like the personal trainers and it's it's kind of for me this is I- Monet's speaking from personal experience. It was just always always address of an eating disorder. And when I let go of all that stuff God you know just the relief and you kind of get to meet a self again. 'cause you've been so dissociate off and so At War with yourself constantly that when you get some relief for all you got some recovery a now enjoy getting address so much more. You know that I'm not like because I used to get up in the morning and depending on what the scale would say would say whether it was a good or bad pass and no matter. Any of my achievements. Didn't matter if I'd like one or whatever it'd be like you failed fucking crazy way to start your day. Yeah and that's like what the parameters of you feel like that's how you are achieving and important to shift it. What's the ensemble in your wardrobe? That now gives you most joy not marriage with fear and terror with just joy it just joy. Oh my God we hit Louis like. I think I've now figured out why I in getting to thirty years. Well you do. I did a lot of like sartorial experimentation and sees and I mean there was always a sort of threat of vintage floral on the whole thing but there were some with judge but What brings me toys what we really at stake the things I so of where everyday it's nice getting into USA of being like I know what works works for me and I can feel kind of good about and also I just have this? I orange so penny lane schilling coat that I go Ventiseri Lynn. Like eight years ago in San through all the phases in my life like I've worn at careering through the street album mind drunk. Nuuk worn it like you know it's been with me for a long time. It's been so pat so many many times where people are going to be like. Give me go sustainable fashion. That's sustainable fashion. Like we'll be back just after this break. I was scrolling through instagram this morning and I couldn't help but stop on one of my favorite accounts. Majori they make beautiful handcrafted fine jewelry for everyday wear I love their pieces and get so many compliments when I wear my curve link. Earrings rings or the triple beaded chain necklace. Majori works with expert jewelers to handcraft their exceptional jewelry with the same high quality materials and commitment to the exceptional craftsmanship craftsmanship. So they can sell directly to you but without the traditional markups you can see how they price each item in comparison. Estimated retail costs on every product. Page a diamond ring. That's easily over. Five hundred dollars at a traditional retailer is less than two hundred dollars a majority so go check out Majori on instagram or sign up to their latest weekly. Drop up this week there featuring tube who edition or you can just treat yourself right now by going to majority dot com slash as me for free shipping on orders over one hundred dollars. I spelled M. E. J. you or I dot com slash as me majority dot com slash as me at thirty-three. What's it like to live in your body now? Wow No happier of evidence mobility and it's taken a long time and a lot of work and I have whom I saw this beautiful. Oh think who body I'm Beverley. I'm not like wow like this piece I I don't wake up and think. Oh you know I just see as this thing that works with me not against me and and it has carried me through so much and I have treated awfully. I've judged it. I've bullied my body. I have attacked and it has been. NFL ME in unconditional love kind of way and it still here and I think dance had a huge PA in unlikely to healing my relationship with my body because before I was doing all kinds of like God fast year so mad I was doing my a bit crime yoga. Barry's bootcamp day. It was no they you know when you put down one thing you take another the thing and I was like Hop Oregon. Doing I mean who is weird because I was heartbroken about guy I was Lusa heartbroken. Drugs and alcohol went looking for me anymore. Because they had been Mike defining feature of who I was and also who. I thought I was supposed to be because it was like rock'n'Roll Kumo and in order to be an Rockstar. I thought you just needed to be like invincible. When it came to that stuff I I don't drink I've never taken drugs surprise surprise green over here I have that look about me for me? The being Irish. When you say you don't drink people are so curious as to why And I think in many ways I realized that took so little to get me from a position where I was having a nice time and didn't know who I was or where I was due to my body mass but then also realizing that how I am allowed exist in public spaces and then how other people react to me. I've had experiences where you know in nightclubs lifted me up in the air. Men have stood in front of me and unzipped their fly. In my face thinking it was banter and I remember being eighteen and making this really big decision that I'm not gonNA put myself in a vulnerable position for others and it wasn't until I was much older and somebody said to me so you don't drink because of the world. Yeah but I also think that because of that architect a personality where as you know I will dance on the table. That's entirely server with our moments rush. I did which is only for the excuse of being like I say that no memory of us were ever and I always have a memory also also even when I wish not to. When you wake up in the mornings now what's the monologue tenure Kofi cooling to the coffee and I really WanNa win myself offer? Because that's when I should v Reich writing a diary Oh doing something gratitude list if I was trying to be released healthcare but I'm instagram. The first thing undo the morning coffee and instagram. And I'm just really trying to fucking we my so forth that in because I don't use it for the rest of the day in the morning just in the morning like yeah well. The coffee's brewing obvious corroding through but I don't think it's setting me what I love about instagram. And what I try to do is is make my feet educational delivery follow people who lived experience. I know nothing about if you have to. Or if you could the than had to go back and talk to young flirts particular. Who's maybe ten or twelve? What would you say it's hard? Isn't it disappeared time that was about one third who really uncomfortable in my body and think I was either way and think hose ugly and it's sad to see photos of me at age because I was just like a cute kid and maybe had a bit of puppy forever but everybody does and I think I just really. I wish I could tell myself that I was enough already like I. I was good the way that I was. I didn't change anything and also to learn already at the age to trust her body. You know to trust your body and to you. Don't have to control troll everything. Because I think even at that age I started. I was losing so much control over even where I was living now. Who My family was? I the thing that's when the anxiety and the desire desperate desire of control and for safety kicks in and the first thing that you can start trying to control his. You'll food or the way that you look and I think if I could just tell that person my kids it's okay to let go but it's such a hard thing to say to a kid isn't it because yeah yeah. You don't think that they should have to know that already at that age you should think that it should be that. They should just be having a nice time and also like to tell her that ache but I eventually did become the past and that she dreamt of that not to worry like this awkward unlovable feeling that you have you going to use a and you're gonNA make something beautiful with an. You will become the person that you imagine because a lot of I think about when I'm in this when I made like France the machine is like I think I'm literally continual stream. Is this a sleep. Is this right now. Just my dream is I was ten. 'cause you know a lot of what I've done. It's almost was to kind of fulfill the things that I also sort of unhappy with myself but well I'm glad about. It's not in the way I've achieved that not in the way that I thought had to not by starving myself not by being the most drunk person at the Party sometimes the most fun but often no I. Didn't you don't know what you don't know you know. I got to that place as being the person that that at tenured roller. Be Fi- trusting. You're eating my body and trusting my mind as well like even though I was always one of the heaviest drinkers inau group. I got the worst of move out than anyone else. My forty just didn't react well to it like my mental health and and actually when I find he stopped it was because I finally went. Like I can't do this my brain anymore and trusting what my brain and my body was telling me and through that you know I've kind of become who I am. Now which is not the most together that person still but it's better than it was. I think was changed to me. He has the Especially over the course of this record and of being open about the things that I did struggle with. I've been sort of allowed allowed to really be myself in public sphere which is really liberating if feel much more relaxed about. I've told everybody I mean literally if you put the word like aborted threesome in a poem. The release I've told everyone every there's nothing left to justice. I called my mother when I was on a cab on the way here and the last thing she said was tough Lawrence. I said thanks she as you very kindly did invited. My whole family made come see you when you were in Ireland and the kindness that you showed them will never be forgotten and it meant so much them so much so that my family got far too comfortable calling calling you flow. My machine flossy philosophy but the thing I admire most about you among everything is your kindness and I've been the benefit of that as so many others have been. This has been been such a tree and I cannot thank you enough thank you thanks for having me. It was so so nice. What a thoughtful conversation? Florence is incredible for so many different reasons not just because she is talented and powerful awful and so honest about her own experiences to help us all learn and feel connected but earlier this summer she was so kind to all of my family calmly. She invited them all to see her perform in concert. And I have never seen my parents and my brother my sisters more excited and finally I had a use for them but her kindness and generosity to the people I love most will never ever be forgotten person. You should know this week is actually not just one individual person. It's an entity in New York. This week I got to experience. Something really quite incredible. I got to go to land gallery in Brooklyn which is specifically explicitly an art space for people with intellectual disabilities. I gotta meet the artists and see their work and acquire some beautiful pieces. That eventually owned my own home will be framed and decorators and hanging on the walls and bringing joy and exuberance at the place. So if you're not already following land gallery you can find them on instagram hat. Land Gallery as me with Sinead is a lemonade media. Original and is executive produced by Jessica Dover Kramer Assistant produced by Claire Jones and edited by Ivan Cure F- music is by Jerome Rankin our sales and distribution partners. Westwood One. If you've liked what you've heard don't be shy. Tell your friends or listen and subscribe on Apple Stitcher spotify or wherever you. I like to listen and rate and review as well to continue the conversation. Find me on instagram and twitter at the shaper and find lemonade media on instagram twitter on facebook lemonade media. Here's another new podcast to check out. It's increasingly rare to see an analysis of activism through Intersectional Lens Ends. That takes into account spirituality. The majority of the world's self identifies as religious or spiritual and yet many discussions of politics culture and activism resum are devoid of a spiritual framework spirited is changing that by speaking with leaders and activists from diverse backgrounds about how spirituality informs their practice under activism host. Dr Tim Jeet Singh speaks with comedian. Hari Kondabolu Rep Ilhan Omar the President of Union Theological Seminary Serene Jones uh-huh and more influential leaders about philosophy and spiritual teachings inform their modern day activism subscribe dispirited down.

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Democracy Now! 2019-12-10 Tuesday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:48 min | 11 months ago

Democracy Now! 2019-12-10 Tuesday

"Hi I'm Amy Goodman. If you're tuning in right now democracy now is probably your source for news you can trust. Democracy now is independent. Which means we're funded by you? The oil gas and coal companies when we're covering climate change or the weapons manufacturers when we cover warren piece. If you everyone who tunes into this podcast may just just one ten dollar donation right now. We could cover operating costs for twenty twenty the most critical election year. The United States has seen in decades. I think the the media can be the greatest force for peace on earth. That's how we come to understand each other. If you feel the same way make your tax deductible donation today by visiting us a democracy now dot org have a wonderful holiday season happy new year and thank you so much mm-hmm from the UN climate summit here in Madrid Spain. This is democracy now. This process was designed to deliver global justice. This is a place where blue is as powerful. Ah Fool as European Union the United States but the constant bullying of these countries are making this process ossis worse than useless the fact that president trump is pulling the United States out of the Paris climate accord. We'll look at what the US is doing wallet still here. Then as two more indigenous activists are murdered in Brazil. We'll bring the voices of protest asset cop twenty five dollars. Government is threatening all all of our lives at risk right now but that doesn't mean that we will stop fighting and fighting for lots of people. Then we look at indigenous indigenous resistance and Canada and the United States from the Dakota Access Pipeline Tilburg Tar Sands. We'll speak with Canada's Canada's indigenous climate action's Viel dementia we brought in indigenous youth delegation impacted by Tarzan's infrastructure to you twenty five Jews motive stand up printing digits rate and we look at the explosive Washington Post. Expose on the history of the. US foreign four enough Benistan all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot org the warranties report I'm Amy Goodman where broadcasting sting from the UN climate summit in Madrid Spain back in the United States House Democratic lawmakers are expected to unveil articles of impeachment today charging president trump with abuse of power and conduct. They say percents a clear and present danger to national security and the upcoming twenty twenty election option. The New York Times reports. The articles are expected to center to charges that trump violated his oath of office by elevating his personal political concerns over the national interest and that trump stonewalled congressional attempts to investigate his actions the ongoing impeachment inquiry centers on how trump pressured the Ukrainian president to investigate trump's political rival Joe Biden and his son Hunter The New York Times reports the house. Judiciary Committee was working overnight to prepare the articles of impeachment. This all comes after the house. Judiciary Committee held a hearing Monday in which two lawyers argued argued evidence for and against impeachment. This is Republican lawyer. Steven caster speaking about President. Trump's July twenty fifth phone call with the Ukrainian President Call Summary reflects absolutely no pressure or conditionality presidents. Linski vocalized no concerns with the subject batter disgust and there is no indication of bribery. Extortion or other illegal conduct on the call. And this is Daniel Goldin. The House Intelligence Committee lawyer who led the Ukraine inquiry testifying along to the evidence for impeachment. President trump directed a months-long campaign to solicit foreign help in his two thousand and twenty reelection efforts withholding official axe from the government of Ukraine in order to coerce and secure cure political assistance and interference in our domestic affairs as part of this scheme. President trump applied applied increasing pressure on the president of Ukraine to publicly announce to investigations helpful to his personal reelection efforts. It's he applied this pressure himself and through his agents working within and outside of the US government all. This comes as the justice. Department's Independent Inspector. General Michael Horowitz released a long awaited report that concludes the FBI acted without political bias when it opened the investigation into links between trump's two thousand sixteen campaign in Russia the report art debunks. Trump's often repeated claims that he was targeted by politicized conspiracy but the report did find. Serious and systematic problems with the FBI's wiretapping wiretapping of former trump campaign. Advisor Carter page the American Civil Liberties. Union said quote the concerns. The inspector general identifies apply. Apply to intrusive investigations of others including especially Muslims and far better safeguards against abuse are necessary unquote the Modern Day Pentagon papers. That's how people are describing confidential trove of documents obtained by The Washington Post revealing how senior. US officials shows have lied throughout the eighteen year. US war in Afghanistan the longest war in US history. The first installation of the explosive report report published Monday is headlined at war with the truth documents how. US officials repeatedly lied about the war's progress. While hiding evidence the war had become unwinnable. It also shows how three successive presidencies President George W Bush President Obama and president trump have bungled the war in Afghanistan despite deploying seven hundred seventy five thousand. US troops since two thousand one more than two thousand. US soldiers have died in Afghanistan. Twenty thousand have been wounded. The papers also reveal how. US officials tried to hide the truth about the war from the American public in one interview revealed in the papers. Douglas Lute a three star Army general who served as the White House's Afghan wars czar during both Bush and Obama Administration said quote. We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan. We didn't know we were doing. If the American people knew the magnitude of this dysfunction unquote the two thousand pages of secret documents contain four hundred interviews with generals diplomats aid workers Afghan officials and others. Who played a direct role in the war? The Washington Post one access to the documents. After a three year legal battle the explosive Afghanistan papers come as Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders and California for New Democratic Congress member Khanna are urging fellow lawmakers to vote against the seven hundred thirty eight billion dollar National Defense Authorization Act in a joint statement the two lawmakers said quote Congress should have used this National Defense Authorization Act to stop are endless wars instead Ed. This bill does nothing to rain out of control military spending prevent unconstitutional war against Iran limit. The poisoning of Americans drinking water order or end the obscenity of innocent children in Yemen being killed by US bombs unquote Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukraine's since President Vladimir Landscape Ben in Paris Monday and agreed to a full and comprehensive cease fire in eastern Ukraine by the end of this year. The ceasefire aims and five and a half years of fighting. That's killed lease thirteen thousand people. Russia and Ukraine agreed to release. All conflict related detainees by the end of the ear and to resolve a dispute about Russian gas exports be pipelines that cross Ukraine. The two countries still disagree on the withdrawal of Russian troops and elections in areas of Ukraine controlled by Russian backed rebels in India protests have erupted across parts of the country as the lower house of parliament. Parliament passed legislation. That represents a major step. In the official marginalization of India's two hundred million Muslims the citizenship amendment bill would establish doncaster religious tests for people who wished to become citizens and provide a path to citizenship. For All of South Asia's major religions accept Islam. The legislation now heads to the upper house of parliament where it's expected to pass. The bill is part of Indian. Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Hindu nationalist agenda and here in Madrid. Spain protests continuous. Part of COP. Twenty five the UN climate summit this morning indigenous women protested outside outside the US Embassy to demand action to address the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls across North America Madrid police shut down the protests within minutes minutes. This is Monica. d'oro from Guam. I see that my struggle to protect my land and waters militarization from the expansion engine of us. Imperialism in my waters and in the whole region of of Micronesia is very much connected to the violence and the assault women across north and South America Monday indigenous climate leaders also gathered outside the Canadian embassy in Madrid to protest. The Canadian native governments supported the BERTA tar sands extraction in mind and pipeline infrastructure. This is to Kaya Blaney of the plumbing nation. We're here to stand against destruction -struction because it directly impacts US violence against the land is violence incidents people and violence against the land silencing future generations. So we're we're here to bring visibility to not just that desecration but also brings ability to like and business. Climate Defenders also on Monday Chilean activists gathered outside the cop twenty five the UN climate summit to protest the right wing government of President Sebastian Pinera era and denounce the summit being relocated to Madrid amidst massive anti-austerity protests in Chile. This is laying feminists activists Christine Engelbrecht. Spain cannot welcome murderous government because the government of Sebastian Pinera is murdering it's wounding and purposely mutilating are are people with the armed forces and the police. It's a deliberate attack. The perfectly know what they are doing. They're violating protocols. It has been confirmed by the human rights. Watch that there are human and rights violations and that the state is denying it. It's a state that negates what is happening protocols are not being followed and human rights are being violated in Chile the UN U. N.. Climate Summit is being run by Chile. Even though the Chilean government cancelled it and Santiago these massive anti austerity protests there air and then the UN move the cop to Madrid and yet another protest. Monday people walked out of a forum on carbon markets promoted by oil companies including BP Chevron and Shell. The activists covered their ears and walked out show vice-president Dunkin van Bergen again speaking. They later confronted him as he left. The forum are you willing to do what they're asking you to. Nobody's nobody's asking anything. Okay what's clear is that there is a need for complete to complete withdraw from fossil fuels. I I think the dialog all of us much more complex than that. I would agree with everybody who says there's a need for action. Denmark has passed historic legally binding climate legislation to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by seventy percent by twenty thirty Denmark's Climate Act also commits current and future climate ministers to achieve net zero emissions by twenty fifty at the latest in Australia. At least six people we've been killed and over. Five million acres have been scorched amidst Australia's worst fire season on record. At least one hundred. Different fires are burning across the Australian states of New South Wales and Victoria. They're expected to worsen today as temperature soars to above one hundred degrees Fahrenheit prompting some residents to flee their homes amidst the climate fueled wildfires in Iraq the committee to Protect Journalists calling for the release of Freelance Journalists Zayd Muhammed Al Khafji who was abducted from his home in Baghdad on December six after covering anti-government protests in Tupperware Square. His abduction came the same day. An unidentified the gunman shot and killed photographer. op-ed Mehanna Alami while he was covering protests in Baghdad security forces and militias killed over four four hundred protesters. Since the massive anti-government demonstrations broke out across to rock on October first Burma's de facto leader. Aung San Sutri is arriving at the International Court of Justice at The Hague today. We're she'll try to defend Burma against accusations. The Burmese military has committed genocide against against minority. Ro- kingdom Muslims Gambia brought the genocide case to the International Court accusing Burma of trying to quote. Destroy the row Kinga as a group and whole or in part by the use of mass murder rape and other forms of sexual violence unquote international aid. Groups say thousands of row Kinga have been murdered and a quarter of a million end up in forced to flee into neighboring Bangladesh. This is working the refugee. Jumble need a bigger speaking from Bangladesh one end around three military personnel raked me they detain hundreds of our row Hengel women and rape them in front of their children and husbands. We have been demanding justice for all of this now. We demand the trial for on Song Tucci in front of the world community on San Suu. She is a Nobel Peace Prize winner. who spent years fighting against Burmese military which he is now defending at The Hague the US Supreme Court has refused to hear a challenge to a Kentucky Law that requires doctors doctors perform ultrasounds and show fetal images to patients before they can perform abortions the refusal to hear the American Civil Liberties Union's appeal on behalf behalf of Kentucky's only abortion clinic means the anti-abortion law remains in place pro-choice advocates argue? The law has no medical basis whatsoever. Everton that it's only aimed to coerce women into not having an abortion in Houston Texas. Police Chief Art Asa Vado Slam Senate majority already leader Mitch. McConnell and Texas Republican Senators John Cornyn and Ted Cruz for not reauthorizing. The Violence Against Women Act after a Houston police. Sergeant was killed old while responding to a domestic violence. Call Law fortunate that one of the biggest reasons that the Senate and Mitch McConnell and John Cornyn and Ted Cruz and others are not getting into a room and having a conference committee with the House and getting the volunteers. Women's act is because the NRA doesn't like the fact that we WANNA take firearms out of the hands boyfriends that abuse abuse their girlfriends. And who killed our sergeant a boyfriend abusing his girlfriend away from here. In Spain. Peace activists gathered at the port in the region of Valencia early Tuesday stay morning to protest against the docking of Saudi vessel. That may be carrying weapons to be sent to Yemen. The vessel arrived in the port early early this morning. As a group of seven activists rallied with signs that read stop the war and the war begins here. The war in Yemen is killed over one hundred two thousand people and created the world's worst humanitarian crisis and those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now democracy now DOT ORG the Warren Police report. I'm Amy Goodman. Yes we're broadcasting from inside the UN Climate Change Conference here in Madrid Spain. That's the UN. When climate summit where representatives from almost two hundred countries have gathered to negotiate solutions to the climate crisis the climate summit known as is Cop Twenty Five Conference of Parties over the last twenty five years offers a rare opportunity for all countries to have an equal say negotiations negotiations? The Madrid summit comes four years after the two thousand fifteen Paris agreement to limit global temperature rise to well below two degrees Greece Celsius. That's three point six degrees Fahrenheit but as a summit heads into its final days representatives from the Global South say the United States and other rich rich countries are struggling the talks and trying to avoid their obligation to assist poorer countries already facing the worst effects of the climate crisis. We'll we'll be joined in a minute by heartbeats sing. Climate change specialist at action aid from New Delhi India. But first we want to turn to a clip from his speech here at the COP. Aw Cop Twenty Five. This process was designed to deliver global justice. This is a place where the value is as powerful as European Union or the United States but the constant bullying of these big countries are making process worse than useless. They're bullying hasn't stopped. They're not letting us make any any progress in this space. That is no substitute for action. And what rich countries are doing they're creating An illusion of action by just talking then be demand action. They offer reports when we demand man money. They offer workshops that is to help people who are suffering right now jeet Singh joins us now along with Assad Raymond Executive Director of war on want each worked on climate change issues for over ver- decade. We welcome you both back to democracy now it seems every UN climate summit. We get to speak to each of you heartbeat. You were speaking here at the Climate Summit on Monday but I think for people to understand around the world what is taking place especially as in the United States people understand that the US the president trump is pulling the US out of the Paris climate accord that they may think they have nothing to do with these negotiations negotiations. But in fact. Isn't it true that they are central to these negotiations absolutely so this very moment. What negotiators are discussing discussing is how to deal with climate emergency and what we call? Climate emergency on the outside is basically defined as loss and damage as a third pillar of climate action. And this is a very crucial moment where they are putting concrete proposals on the table to help. People were suffering climate crisis as we sit here. What what? The five million people in Africa are facing the rat of climate change and that is the reality women and children are far more vulnerable and are facing and food starvation situation at this very moment and out there facing is I thirty five years now. This system united lighted nations system on climate change is broken has not been able to help. These people and this particular cop is about creating that system for that money. Stocks Doc Swing and United States which is not yet out of Paris Agreement so innova serving the notice period is obstructing any progress breasts that we could have made her in fixing that broken system. It's not allowing any process that can take us closer to mobilising money to to help. People who are facing climate emergency. According to the climate news source heated the United States is circulating a loss and damages damages proposal here com. That would make it even more difficult for poorer countries to receive financial support to recover from droughts floods and other our climate emergencies. What exactly is the? US proposing the proposal that uses right now only sharing with heads of delegation and not putting it. Formerly formerly is a way to arm twist developing countries that if you want any decision on Lawson damage process which can help people people. You have to agree that we will continue to have a seat at the table. Even when we are out of Paris Agreement and even more worse is is that you have to make sure that the liability waiver is extended to United States and it's polluting industries this. This is worst. I've seen in the last ten years of me attending negotiations. It can't get worse than that. It's arm-twisting and bullying at the highest level level where United States which is not meeting its emission targets not giving any money to green climate fund. And not now even letting a system to be created that can help people who face climate emergency now look at the audacity of United States. The way they are behaving in these negotiations negotiations earlier this year. Mozambique was struck by two cyclones. Day and over a thousand people were killed millions displaces. WHO's the first time in recorded history? The country was hit by two powerful tropical cyclones in the same season cyclone. Kenneth was the strongest storm arm. Ever to make landfall in Mozambique in the wake of the International Monetary Fund Loan Mozambique one hundred eighteen million dollars for reconstruction the Sarah Jane Clifton Director Jubilee Debt campaign blasted the international community for forcing Mozambique to borrow money to cope with a disaster brought on by climate change. She told climate home news quote. What's happening to Mozambique is going to happen to other places more frequently unless there's a more systematic Arctic approach for tackling debt problems poor countries? There's GonNa be a climate debt trap spiraling out of control a climate debt trap Harjeet Guitar explain absolutely. Let's let's look at what happens when you're hit. By a climate crisis one incident can wipe out development gains over the last decades tickets. They don't have money to invest into development because all their money gets diverted in providing relief so they will always and then they're forced to take loan own from the same system that is responsible for the climate crisis so they will always remain in debt who people will end up repaying that debt that their governments admits are forced to take because that is no system that exists that recognizes that climate crisis is making it worse for these people people who are responsible for this emergency situation and the money that should have gone to education to help to better their infrastructure. Rupture is now going to provide. Food is now going to provide live material and reconstruct their homes over and over again so these poor countries will never be able to come out of that debt trap that they are but what does this have to do with the United States. Explain I mean in in the past. The United States was running all sorts of side panels. Here now. There is almost no obvious presence in terms of that to the outside public public but explain what it is. They're doing behind the scenes and then next year while I think it's a day after election day the US formerly out We'll see who'll be the president then but they won't be president yet which means next year in Glasgow Cop Twenty Six will the US not be present at all. Oh and would you say that's better than what they're doing right now. Absolutely listen I know you ice. US isn't all streams of discussions that are happening beat financed united. beat loss and damage beat adapation. They're everywhere and everywhere. They are obstructing and not allowing any progress to happen particularly early on finance. Now when we talk about this system that should provide money to climate survivors. Don't want that system to be created and this demand is not a new demand. One to on behalf of small island states made that demand for the first time in one thousand nine hundred ninety one. It took US twenty two years to set up a mechanism called Warsaw international mechanism for loss and damage in Warsaw in two thousand thirteen which had a very clear function to mobilize realized finance and help these countries. Last six years constant bullying and blocking by United States joined by Australia and even the European Union did not allow even good to be created that can discuss what the needs are what the gap is how many can be mobilized and that bullying continues at this moment so this year is important. Dak Body was found. Muscle mechanism is being reviewed. There is a critical opportunity. You really do care whether it is fit for purpose. Disasters that we are facing is because of one degree Celsius temperature rise and we are going to three agree which does not been three times. The impact the impacts are going to be much more is this body fit for purpose is able to help people for people who are suffering climate agency agency right now in Mozambican other parts of Africa. New It's not. So how do we really look at this body. How bring in finance which is much more needed you did for these communities but us is busy protecting the interest of its own administration and polluting industries? So that they can never be held liable for the crisis they have caused and US biggest historical emitter so which means the largest country. So you disponsable for this crisis. Finally Harjeet article sex. Explain what this is. I think so often. The jargon here prevents people from having access or understanding the very real consequences of climate catastrophe in the world so to put it simply article six is about how to get private sector involved and how markets are going to play in reducing emissions. This is the only piece that is hanging hanging from the Paris rulebook. That was finalized last year. So the interest of developed countries this mobilize money from private sector in a manner where where they don't have to invest money but from developing countryside. It's really important to see much more public financing coming in and the rules that are set for private companies. These are robust enough that there is no leakage or loopholes and there's been some of these emission reduction targets being double counted if we don't put the right rules in place and there's also a bigger challenge of human rights. Today's a Human Rights Day. And we see how these companies have been continuously violating human rights. So we really have to make sure that people's human rights so not violated by these private companies for them. The sole motive remains making prophet and we have seen how corporations have ruined the planet. They always have prophet over planet. So it's really important to make sure that the so-called carbon markets carbon trading is fair Assad Raymond say more about these carbon markets as you said. I often talk about all of these terms. And there's a lot of jogging so let's break down very simply right. We know what the climate scientists have told us. We now see it with our is about what's happening around the world. That's all happening at one degree. Climate scientists have told us. We can't breach the one point five degrees guardrail. This say that there's a certain might've carbon that's left that we're like to pollute. Actually if you look at the comet it's science report it says really. There's about five years of budget left right if you want to prevent the breach ten years if we want to be generous. And what's happening here now is. He's rich developed countries. Not just the United States but Australia. Canada backed by the European Union. Not only don't want their own emissions not only don't want to provide finance that they promise it's not only don't want want to help the most impacted people but now I want to get out of jail card and this is what article six the carbon markets because what it basically says he's I won't have to cut my emissions but I can pay somebody else a New York emissions and I will count as if I cut my emissions as if there is a never ending magic box of carbon the pollution that we're allowed to do it's not possible if a country like for example the United Kingdom or the United States that fachet of effort would be something like minus two hundred by twenty thirty. There is simply no carbon that you can use for an offset Not taking away the issue around the environmental integrity because ten years ago we had an argument in these negotiations about carbon markets in developing countries and civil society absolutely rejected them. They said they do do not deliver emissions reductions lead to human rights violations. They're like profit for private companies and nothing to ordinary people but what's most pernicious here is a a- as the United States and other developed countries block any progress on the finance conversation on the loss and damage what they're saying to developing countries if you agree to the carbon markets maybe in that we will give you some share of the profit and so what developing countries are left with is is the only thing that's left on the table that no it won't deliver emissions reductions. The noise will be devastated. The planet but for much need to finance that's the kerosene. That's being dangled. It is an absolute courageous decision on ministers. They're meeting here will hold developing countries to hostage because it will say we will only ally conversations of much-needed loss. And I'M W if you allow us to have the Kaaba Marcus decision go through. We're going to break. Then come back to our discussion. I said Raymond is executive director of war on want usually in London heartbeat sing global lead on climate. Change at Action Aid. You usually in New Delhi India when we come back US agreement we'll also talk about the explosive Washington Post series and the history of the US war in Afghanistan. And we'll talk more about what's happening here and what's happening happening. In Britain the elections come on Thursday there. And we'll we'll find out what's happening. And also the major players there air the candidate's position on the climate crisis. Stay with us Yeah I ooh AH Witch Hunter by a stick in stone. This is democracy now democracy now dot org the warrant piece report. We're broadcasting from the UN climate summit in Madrid Spain. I'm Mimi Goodman as we speak outside the plenary halls of this summit uh here in Madrid in the background we can see the enormous hands of sculpture pressed against the edifice of a street scene in Venice Italy. The piece was created by the Italian sculptor. Lorenzo Quinn son of the Oscar winning actor Anthony Quinn and inscription at its base reads in in part Venice the floating city of art and culture. That's inspired humanity for centuries is threatened by climate change and time decay and is in need of the support of our generation and future ones unquote. The hands are those of a child representing Venison's present and future future supporting life and culture in November nearly ninety percent of Venezuela's flooded amidst high tides and heavy rains causing over over a billion dollars worth of damage to historic buildings. Venice's mayor called the flooding apocalyptic and said climate. Change is to blame still with us. Aside Raymond Executive Director of war on want worked on climate change issues for over a decade. I said we just finished struck with hard. Gt and you talking about. What's happening here but I'm wondering if you can talk about what's happening right now? In Britain I hope to come back to you at the end of the week when you'll be in London 'cause you're elections Thursday but the significance of what's happening there. What is at stake? So the state I mean of course is a huge each election from climate related point of view It's going to be a big debate about whether the U K adopts what's called now a green new deal with really ambitious targets of trying to reduce our emissions by twenty century or close to by twenty thirty with a massive investment in terms of new green jobs and tackling austerity and delivering both climate justice for people domestically and also recognizing the UK's footprint globally earlier this year. The British House of Commons became the first parliament in the world to declare climate emergency. This is Labor Party leader. Jeremy Corbyn we have no no time to waste. We are living in a climate crisis. That will spiralled dangerously out of control unless we take rapid and dramatic dramatic action now. This is no longer a barracks. They just didn't future. We're talking about nothing. Less than the irreversible destruction of the environment within our lifetimes of members of this House the resolution came on the heels news of April's extinction rebellion uprising in London. That saw police arrested more than thousand protesters. Many of whom superglue themselves to buildings trains and sidewalks in a nonviolent island direction action campaign so the position of the prime minister. Now Boris Johnson who the two top candidates essentially our Labour leader. Jeremy Corbyn Our ben and Boris Johnson. Yes it's often now called that we're in the cloud election and historically we have environmental organizations who've rated today everybody's manifesto at this moment. They're saying that. The party's strongest manifesto on tackling the climate crisis. The offer that people buy on the table by the conservative not party. They seem to be the week. How much longer target of net zero by two thousand fifty no real pathways to highway would even achieve that and put it into context next the UK is important because next year the U K will be the president of the cop a cop twenty six moves to the UK so if the client if the UK showing real climate leadership leadership could help unblock the real need for ambition both in terms of emission reduction by rich developed countries but also of countries accepting that they have an obligation to pay? Hey that climate finance and for many of us who've been inside this space we know that the reality of mobilizations around the world now with millions of people out on the street needs to change our our government's home so that they come here with Monday to actually adopt action otherwise if feels like dragged all day here what governments continue you talk but actually awfully very very little action and finally. I wanted to just get a quick comment from you. We're going to do this much more extensively in the days to come but on what many are calling rolling the new Pentagon papers the Washington Post revealing confidential trove of documents that reveal how senior. US officials have lied throughout the eighteen year. Warren Afghanistan Longest Warren. You assist the first installation of the explosive report published Monday headlined at War With Truth Documenting how. US officials repeatedly lied about the worst progress. While hiding evidence the war had become unwinnable. It shows how three successive presidencies George W Bush President Alabama president trump have bungled the war in Afghanistan despite three quarters of a million. US troops there since two thousand one the papers also revealing how US officials just try to hide the truth about the war from the American public. You have long worked on. What not only climate issues and they are connected but the issue shoe of war? Can you talk about what you've read. So far yes I mean he's a he's a dominant dive into. Of course it validates. What menus of long say during both the war in Afghanistan and he says equally applicable to the military intervention take place in Iraq and Libya? We've always said that. Actually the trillion indulge up for example is being spent on this misguided war would not deliver any progress progress for the people. If you've got any sun and the military and the government light to their own people and said actually progress was being made. I think it's absolutely shocking. The reality on the ground is we know. Is Afghanistan still more dangerous place. This is not genuine peace building the impeachable did not come out the barrel of a gun and democracy does not come at the barrel of the gun if governments were serious about wanting to tackle the military conflicts that I that would be to stop selling the arms or weapons that feel these conflicts. The second will be stopped supporting military dictatorships regimes which commit human rights violations and thirdly would have been to actually support for the Afghan people and they're genuine peace building movement that were existing that it did none of those things and it's leaving Afghanistan in a in a much more horrific the much more broken place that it was. Well we will certainly continue to cover this explosive series and will link to it at democracy now dot Org Asset Raymond Executive the Director of Warren. Want thank you so much for joining us when we come back. We look at indigenous resistance here at the UN climate conference from pipeline. Politics Ticks To the Amazon stay with us. Mostly data's been take on risk the path Mr Tat. The we are challenged by Anna Tissue. This is democracy now democracy now DOT ORG the Warren Peace Report. I made me good mover broadcasting from inside the UN Climate Change Conference the UN climate summit here in Madrid Spain. I mean he goodman on Monday indigenous activist from the Brazilian and Ecuador. Amazon rallied outside this. This cop twenty-five venue to protest the assassination of indigenous forest protectors and the destruction of their lands known as the lungs of the earth. Their protests came just two days as after two indigenous chiefs for me no per shetty watch Adrada and Raimondo Watch. Your daughter were gunned down in a drive-by shooting Saturday in Brazil Lil Serta from the NICKELODEON Tammy here to support resilient allegation that is denouncing thing that I have to indigenous people that just passed away due to prevent all this is also narrow is pursuing in Brazil we are here denouncing the policies because what sonar is known only bad for Brazil is bad for the whole world to counter from the Takada people bowl from Brazil in the motor between Brazil Colombia Venezuela and we are here the climate conference with the extinction rebellion in group and many other climate justice movements leading edge for the survival in the support to people's are the gods of the forest. They are the first ones to be attacked in this moment of genocide and Eco side that we are living in is one of the countries that kills the most of love nature protectors and the climate activists and many of them are indigenous nations because because our territories are those that protect more than eighty percent of biodiversity in the world. My name is Elena. Linka seventy years old and I'm from the Amazon so my community has been fighting oil since forever as long as I can remember and I grew up during this process of mine and My people fighting this for for such a long time and that has made me part of this movement that I think that is my responsibility as a young person Senate and indigenous youth to make The people of the Amazon that voices heard spaces like this. Could you explain what's happening happening right now. We're just GONNA press conference and we're going to take action now. Where civil disobedience with the gruesome the northern the south? Here you can see. There's the two lines of activists from extinction rebellion from the global north. And they have said that they're putting their bodies on the line that they're risking arrest in order to be in solidarity with indigenous people who put their bodies on the line every day we spoke to many of these extinction rebellion activists earlier while they were blocking the road right next to the press conference friends of his Brazilian indigenous activists. My name is Elaine. I'm from Belgium Belgium. We are now in front of the cup. Twenty five where. It's all happening sitting down one on the roads blocking traffic. And that's what we are doing especially to support the indigenous people in the Amazon. That are suffering a lot from the way that we live that we all the family that needs to change from an Eastland. We are fighting for life literally because we are seeing that the by diversity. He's being lost in losing more than two hundred species off. Anyway browns. Seventy and the next one will be asked. I'm Alex I'm from California. Yeah we are here. Sacrificing our bodies as the bodies of indigenous people have been sacrificed and abused for centuries. It's our turn to take a sacrifice advice. It's what everyone needs to do. I'm came from the UK. And we're blocking this road to support indigenous people. And I'm personally doing it for my children because this is our last chance. This is our last chance and we need to stand up for these people in those people who died in the for our children. And how old are your children much shooting a foreign six years old and I want them to have a future on this planet. I wouldn't be liveable for them. We're right behind us. We see a delegation from the Brazilian Amazon who have come to denounce the killings at Brazilian activists and leaders leaders particularly indigenous Brazilian activists and leaders in the center. You can see Sonia. She's a relative of to indigenous activists from Brazil's who were murdered this weekend on Saturday as they were coming back from a meeting of the Electrical Company and the Indigenous Federation demanding their rights people question shadow over shuttle from the state of modern down in Brazil. I am executive director of the Jewish. People take elation in Brazil that the moment is very hard to leave a person for the League all certification of logging and mining an autograph an agribusinesses agribusinesses destroying them. In thirty five days. There have been three killings. This is a direct result of also narrows direct policies that are threatening the indigenous. Lives in three of your family members have already been murdered. Are you afraid for your own life. Given Vineyard Vines government is threatening took all of our lives are at risk right now but that doesn't mean that we will stop fighting. Fighting for the lives of people is and that was Sonja watcher. The Georgia indigenous leader from Brazil. WHO's to relatives who are assassinated on Saturday? This is democracy now. We're broadcasting from Madrid Spain at the the UN climate summit indigenous people from Canada and the United States speaking out against extraction pipeline projects the environmental devastation of their territories. It's at this summit on Monday. Rose whipple a member of the santee Dakota and trunk and youth delegate from sustainable spoke on a panel of youth climate active us. I remember the sunshine on my skin as I stood at the headwaters of the Mississippi River the drinking source for over eighteen million humans. Here Manisha. I joined other indigenous youth to prepare for our month. Long Canoe journey through our stolen ancestor homelands be paddled to raise awareness of the line three tar sands oil pipeline that threatens to devastate our communities. We dipped our cupped hands in the river. You're sipping the clean water. This is the same river where my cold the ancestors have been harvesting are sacred Mnuchin for thousands of years. This river is important and sacred. Not only to my ancestor but for my people still to this day we happily canoe down the sugar for weeks smiling and laughing sharing our dreams for a fossil fuel world. Soon after everything changed things were darker the sky the water the air our group came underneath the shadow factory looming over our lens like a nightmare. There are sacred waters were sick our hope melting into despair and it was then that we took action in a historic case ace against the pipeline. We came together as youth to intervene with five other tribes to fight for justice although we fought for our River Bathinda lever waters and lands alone to say no to the line three pipeline. It wasn't enough. The pipeline one was unanimously approved. We have been fighting these extract of project through the US court system but this colonial institution continuously continuously values corporate profit over indigenous. Lives today this injustice in my hope are the fires that have brought me to this room. Doc Yuppie Rosa Bullock Yuppie. Santee him off the HA. Hello my relatives my name is rose were born. I'm eighteen years old. I am attending these global negotiations with the first ever sustaining indigenous. You delegation from the United States. We're here to share these stories to share our prayers and bring a frontline fight to the halls of the United Nations. Are people come from many in different lands waters cultures yet. Each of us are here together. Calling on the strength of our ancestors to remind us of our commitments to future generations. Sion's our movements for the protection of sacred sites and lands sound like protect Monaca Know Shasta Dam Raising California stand with bears in Utah and Miller ties long our movements for water sound like Stop Jordan cove in Oregon say Bristol Bay Alaska no keystone pipeline in no double expansion across the Great Plains and especially no line three repipe line and Minnesota. The climate crisis is more than a discussion about a one point five degrees Celsius it. It also looks like stolen encaged children at the. US Mexico border. It looks like missing and murdered. Indigenous women. People are dying. Indigenous indigenous. Land Defenders are being murdered. The climate crisis is a spiritual crisis for our entire world are solutions. Must we've of science with spirituality and traditional ecological knowledge with technology our movements must be bigger than recycling in braver than holding signs lines. It is up to each and every one of us to build movements that center the rights of Indigenous Peoples Healing and justice for the next seven generations rations it is time for us all to reconnect with mother earth. It is time to remember how to listen to her to guide our climate solutions destroy supremacy as US indigenous activists rose whipple addressed reporters at the UN climate summit on Monday in an indigenous youth panel. Elders gathered outside as well as indigenous youth of the Canadian Embassy here in in Madrid Spain to protest the Canadian government's support of the Alberta tar sands extraction and new fossil fuel infrastructure including pipeline. That would cut through indigenous lands to carry Tar Sands oil from Alberta to Wisconsin in the United States. We're joined now by one of those demonstrators. Areola Oriole's Von Che. She's a member of the basket chipper Wyan first nation in the executive director of indigenous climate action area. Welcome back to democracy. Now it's great to have you with us. So we just heard Ros- young indigenous activists who lives in Saint Paul Minnesota talking about the map of the pipelines. And and what Chris crosses indigenous land take us from there to Canada so right. Now what's happening is there's a series of pipelines being built I come from a territory in northern Alberta Treaty territory in community called Fort Chippewa. So if you are looking at Wisconsin for Chippewa and there's hundreds and hundreds of miles or kilometers whichever you prefer but we have pipeline corridors. That are running from our community in Fort Ship well south of fortune one in the heart of the extraction zone just north of fort. mcmurray going southward down into Edmonton Alberta where we have hubs of pipeline corridors. That are shooting out to the west coast of Canada to the eastern Canada in the United Eight states and down through the south into the United States as well so we have pipeline corridors that are going coast to coast to coast of the continent of North America traversing over over critical waterways through the territories of multiple indigenous nations across Canada. And the United States where these pipelines are now delivering oil to refineries. Is that a an upgraders where they're being processed outside of low income people of Color and indigenous communities further exacerbating the pollution as well as the emissions that those those communities are faced with a at the source so you I went to the chromebook the other day the alternative climate summit in you and other indigenous youth from Canada. We're really focusing on the tech frontier. Mine which might sound people in the US like Silicon Valley Tech Frontier. Mind but explain more for what that is and the kind of crossborder organizing that you're doing right now what's happening is there's a company called Tech Resources. They're not a tech firm but rather they've been mineral hardrock company so they've been a mining company mainly working in coal. They actually tremendous a human rights abuse. Records Kurds It's not a very good company but this is their first for a foray into the oil sands or the tar sands and they're proposing the largest ever tar stands mine. This project will be twenty nine thousand hectares of land bigger than the city of Vancouver Twice the size of the center Vancouver or the size of Metro Vancouver over This project will produce close to nine or two hundred and sixty thousand barrels of oil. A day It will also create six megatons ends of emissions and Criss Cross over the habitat of Bison Caribou Moose Lynx Muskrat as well as the last remaining wild flock of whooping cranes cranes and be adjacent to the river system. That is the heart of my own community and seventeen kilometers and the boundary of one of our settlements as well as thirty kilometers is just south of a UNESCO World Heritage site the Wood Buffalo National Park. Now people may think that the Canadian government takes a more enlightened view when it comes to indigenous people in the United United States but explain what the Canadian government is doing what. You're demanding as you were outside the Canadian embassy yesterday here in Madrid but also to take it home to right here. We're in the heart of the UN climate summit and what you're demanding here. We're right outside the plenary which I guess. They're now having a concert. I guess well well you know. I think the big issue issues Kennedy comes to these meetings touting themselves Z.. Global leader in addressing the climate crisis as hiring great relations with their indigenous people's but the reality is in Alberta in my territory of treaty. Eight not a single project that has ever been proposed in the tar sands has ever been denied. Even this project being being proposed by Tech Resources The frontier mind largest mine. Ever it went through the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency Review Process. It clearly indicated that it it will have irreversible impacts on the environment on ecosystems and indigenous rights yet the project was deemed in the public's interests. It's who is the public if indigenous peoples aren't included in that which brings us right back to you here we are in Copper Madrid. We're having conversations about inclusion of human. I'm in rights with an article six. which is a market based in non market based mechanism for reducing our emissions? Where we're arguing whether or not to include human rights and definitely definitely having even more critical challenges including the rights of indigenous peoples but the rights of indigenous peoples are critical to addressing these issues? Because as we've seen in Canada the rights of indigenous peoples are not even considered part of the public's rates we have to demand better safeguards and protections for people absolutely can't the advocating for more carbon market. Clearly we have to have more of a discussion. We're going to do that. In part to posted online at democracy now dot Org Area Donald J member of the basket chip Wyan First Nation Executive Director of indigenous business climate action in Canada. This final news headline the Ethiopian. Prime Minister Ahmed is receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo Norway. Today it's it's international Human Rights Day but the prime minister will not take questions from reporters before after the ceremony and he's facing increasing criticism at home in Ethiopia for the government's men's crackdown against protest in October. In which over sixty people were killed. And that does it for our broadcast a very happy. Belated aided birthday to our very own. Senior producer. Carla Wells democracy now produced by my protein Augusta nermeen shake Carlos. tammy libby rainy. Sam Alcohol John Hamilton Raby Karen Suturing and a Juror Tame Maria Contreras. Maria Tar Saint Denis Moynahan. I made me thanks for joining us.

United States UN President Madrid Madrid Spain Afghanistan Canada trump European Union Paris Brazil United Kingdom Amy Goodman Assad Raymond Australia Ukraine executive director Spain
009 - Facial Hair

Asian Americana

1:06:22 hr | 9 months ago

009 - Facial Hair

"Everyone before we get started with today's episode. I wanted to thank everyone who supported asian-american on patriotic. Especially because you've made this episode possible it produced Asian Americana entirely by myself but thanks to your donations. We were able to buy a second recording. Kim I got to work with a couple of additional producers on today's episode Eh. Asian Americana is entirely funded by you our listeners. There's no ad money or big companies sponsoring the show. Just you and your belief. The Asian American stories are worth telling our experiences matter. You can become a recurring donor to our show by clicking support on Asian Americana Dot Com. That'll take you to our patron page. Even a single dollar a month helps. But for those who give a little bit more we've got Asian Americana stickers and t shirts to thank you with and for everyone who's already a supporter such as our latest patron Adrian. James Thank you so much for believing in me and the show and even if you can't support monetarily some five star ratings and reviews on Apple podcasts also super appreciated appreciated Asian Americana will always be free for everyone to listen but I take great pride in knowing that you value the podcast and the stories that I'm telling so thank thank you again and your show. We're going strong and we're getting tied approved even long for most of my adult life. I haven't really thought that much. About growing facial hair. On the contrary kind of enjoyed the grooming ritual of shaving traditionally lathering up my face with Russian taking a safety razor to it. So with the exception of the occasional lazy day and one very Lisi quarter of college in my senior year I had always kept my face hairless and then about a year ago I started buzzing off all my hair now bald I decided to balance it out by going out my facial stubble into a short beard. A lot of friends commented on it but I figured that was just because it was such a different look than before aside from looking even more like the kind of person who makes PODCASTS I. I didn't think that much about my change in appearance. But then to our producers brought up how big of a deal could be for some folks it comes up all the time. That's what I noticed you see interviews on on TV. Where like deb tells talking to Stephen Colbert about his facial and like how? He's getting stopped at airports than you know even like conversations with your friend you'll listen to like they they call it bruce and Phil will bring up his facial hair. It just something that you just noticed people bring up all the time but nobody would really elaborate on it. I'm innocent and I'm Caroline Chang and this episode is about Asian American men and facial hair had been thinking about it for a while because you hear stereotypes about Asian American men and whether whether they can or cannot grow facial hair and for me and my dad always had stubble. And then my father-in-law has a mustache and all his brothers also have moustache so I think I always thought like oh I know a lot of Asian men who can grow facial hair. Because I don't think I thought that much about what Asian men are actually talking about when they're talking about the facial hair they Kenner grow. I just thought like yes. You can grow facial hair or no. You're I mean I thought it was really interesting because male grooming and fashion and how all they think about the way they look and present to the world is really mysterious to me. Yeah and so. I thought it was an interesting way to learn more because usually it's though women's women's beauty care that's very mysterious like women. And how do they do their skin-care plucking stuff fest. The part that people are very confused by but to me like I don't know anything the thing about growing facial hair and then I just thought it would be really funny. If an Asian American women did an investigation on it today producers Ada sang and caroline chain explore facial hair in many ways it can signify masculinity marketability an resistance. I'm Quincy Smith and this is Asian. Americana we're still working in November of twenty seventeen filmmaker Justin. Chang decided agrout his facial hair for the first time I had never tried to grow out my facial hair before because I was just scared to do so like I wasn't sure how it's GonNa turn out you know. My Dad actually has a pretty boss mustache. And he's known as the Asian Guy with the mustache but I didn't know if I had heard of those genes just in his Chinese American and he says people always treated his dad's moustache like an exception to the norm. A lot of Asian. People were impressed that he could grow it out. On a lot of non Asian people read more impressed and sort of I think I signed him like these masculine values. That a lot of Asian American men MM stereotypically are not granted I think part of that too is because he grew up in Tennessee and Texas and in the sal you know facial hair was even more of a signal. Oh masculinity down there and it helped him get by email. Think that something like phase. Here's that big of a deal but like everything communicates. Justin didn't go up in the south like his dad ad. But he's from San Bernardino California where they're also wasn't a very big Asian community just an always has some scruff but he had never let his facial hair grow now in his late twenties he was about to travel across the country to film a documentary. I found my own production company called J school and we focus on telling stories of underrepresented represented people in other words people caller women and the Lgbtq community and movember provided him with an excuse movember also known as no shave. November is an annual event where men are encouraged to grow mustaches for the month of November to raise awareness of men's health issues. The Movember Foundation a global men's health a charity which began in two thousand three has always focused on educating man about prostate cancer. Anticipation cancer but in twenty seventeen they expanded their mission to include spreading awareness about mental health issues and suicide prevention in issue that was really meaningful to Justin quick onto warning. There's a short mention of suicide coming. Yeah I had a friend when I was younger. Who took her life and it really is what I attributed sparking my career path onto a creative journey and it was my only outlet when I I was younger to write in sort of tell stories as a coping mechanism from when my friend died so when I saw that Movember had expanded its causes to also covering suicide aside if I like the perfect kind of aligning of the stars that I want to try going on? Facial hair was 'cause I believed in and since he was on the road working on his film there there was no one around the laugh at me if it look bad so he started growing at his facial. Hair Okay Caroline. I think this is a good time to admit that we don't have much personal experience. Dance with facial hair right ADA and we're also not Asian American men but we've decided to explore this topic Asian American men and facial hair. Because we've heard it's a thing he's like kind of a thing right now. It's definitely think there was even this article called. Why Asians Dread Movember about difficulties? Some Asian men have growing facial higher. I laughed because I get it. I understand because I know that. Some dudes can't you know what I mean just like hey some dudes like me aren't six feet tall. You know what I mean. It's like you're dealt a hand play it. I do think that there is something very specific about men feeling like they can do anything that that they see other men being able to do. I know some Very Very Astute East Asia gentlemen and if I'm really breaking down what I feel too was them. It's probably jealousy and breaking you know whether jealousy comes from this idea that they can fit into Western perceptions of masculinity better than I can also. It's important to question when you hear the phrase. He's Asian men and facial hair. Do you think of East Asian men Southeast Asian men South Asian men. These communities can have very different issues regarding facial the hair I grew up in a six. I don't have a choice. Beer's become such a hip thing so for me. It's very interesting to observe because I keep a beard for very different reasons. Both to my parents were really worried about me going airports because I mean I'm a brown dude with a beard people get uncomfortable. I can see it in old y people's faces when I am boarding a plane so this is our investigation. What's the vocabulary we don't know what does that have? A Moustache flavor saver. Chinstrap is just like when it goes your sideburns. Connect your cheekbones connect your Chin and how do other people feel about their facial hair. This is something that loves those bugging let me about to because she was so good looking back in the day but first. Let's go back to Justin so he's on the road traveling across the country doing interviews for a documentary series called ritual which is about NFL players and their pre-game superstition and he's also a few weeks into his facial. Missile Hair journey by week three like I had a pretty good moustache. I was pretty sure wasn't able to grow a full beard. I was manicuring it the best I could. He's googling photos those of Johnny Depp. Michael B Jordan and Robert Downey junior to get inspiration on how to style his facial hair into a goatee one day. He was in Denver Filming. Maria's Thomas a a superstar wide receiver for the Denver Broncos who also happen to be doing movember for the first time and he actually flies out a barber from la every every couple of weeks to do his hair and he was doing well for the first time too and his barber was giving him shit basically for being like him. Ed Others Asian duties grown up way better than you can. You can't beat the Asian Guy. So how did that make Justin fail. I dig any offense to it even though like it clearly had racial overtones overtones because I get what he was saying like. They didn't expect me to have such a full mustache. Goatee and this Guy Thomas. WHO's like obviously way tougher for the Niamh as an NFL player? He could barely grow the peach fuzz. It was just kind of a very self aware moment where you're like. Damn I can't handle a tackle or run. The forty yard dash or catch a touchdown in the end zone or win the super bowl ring like he can but for damn sure I cannot gross facial hair this might sound like a nice happy ending of Justin's the number story but it's just the beginning he soon finds out that not everyone has positive reactions to his facial hair one of my friends who will remain nameless she goes. How's your new former birth control but we'll come back to them later so we've learned not the ability or inability to go facial hair can be a source of insecurity or pride for certain men men but for most it's still purely aesthetic choice just like I put my hair in a ponytail or choose whether to wear makeup a certain way for a lot of men facial hairs away the former identity through their appearance? But what if your facial hair could actually affect your job prospects. We're going to take you to Hollywood where your appearance. Especially as an Asian man competing for a limited amount of rules can either get you a coveted role or lead to rejection desmond. Jim I'm an actor on generic barnacles implant season villain in season two saga shake hosts. A podcast called the Bollywood boys and I have facial head. Desmond is an Australian actor Who's been in shows like reef break now chocolates and missionary chronicles and most recently got cast in Marvel's Falcon and the winter soldier? Saga was in a web series called unfair ugly about a Muslim American family in Orange County. He is the Co host of the PODCAST. Bollywood boys and on the cast of the sketch comedy. Show that get Brown. We got them in a room together to talk about their facial hair. Visual here right now is recently shaven. It's an attempt at the Tony Stock Goatee and I haven't pulled it off in addition to Desmond's goatee. He also has long black hair. That goes just past his shoulders that he sometimes wears in half ponytail. Saga wears his hair shorter but he has a full beard like like the beard. Easiest of beards that anyone could possibly have. My beard hair is like as thick as wire. It feels like wires. You're coming out of my face from every possible poor. It's pretty intense. It's a lot of maintenance earns when saga says his beard was high maintenance. He wasn't joking so a lot of work. You you know like I got a shampoo rush it so the shampoo can get like in their condition. It I brush it against the conditioner. Rinse that out and I tell dry air dry for like five minutes. I blow dry. I gave some beard oil and brush that in and I gave moustache wax soccer. Who is Pakistani American? started his acting career without facial hair. In the beginning he wasn't booking anything his agents eventually dropped him. He says he started growing his beard out of laziness. I remember the first year that I grew out my beard. Maybe maybe four or five conversations that I had daily whereabout my beard. The first thing anybody would say to me would be dude sick beard bro. Dude how did we get itself full on my God. That's such a nice beard things like that easier or fuck. It feels like okay. It's catching atun on. People are watching me. I'm doing something right. At least I can grow a beard to get some people's attention because like in this industry you can be Super Knbr talented by the look and you're not going to be seen and so definitely helped get me into a lot of doors in two dozen fourteen. He started art decorating his beard and putting the photos on instagram. We're in Venice and we're sitting like this grassy area and there was like these little white flowers I I was like hold on analogy. Hey grab fifteen of ood beard and then I posted a photo on instagram and got like a couple of hundred likes and this is when like getting a couple of hundred likes. It was like Oh shit. This guy got a couple of hundred likes. He also decorated his beard for Christmas using miniature ornaments and for Easter. He put peeps committee eggs in his beard with toothpicks. By November of two thousand fifteen he had collected a series of these beard photos and a reporter from buzzfeed interviewed for story. The article coincidentally came out the day. Okay before his ten year high school reunion which he thought about skipping. I was really hesitant because people have done things and like they're working regular jobs they are married and have kids and like what do I have. You know I was what twenty eight I feel like. I haven't accomplished anything at this time. Caroline did you go to your high school reunion being in no did you. Yeah I I still have really good friends from high school so I thought it was Super Fun but I totally get it. If you don't don't WanNa go but it sounded like he wanted to go. He just needed a confidence booster and that oddly enough came from his beard I went to my reunion. And they're like I do it. I saw you on buzzfeed house like I know that was awesome and then as soon as they go back to L. A.. The following weekend I immediately booked a national commercial Marshall because of it. I went into my callback audition the casting assistant. He stopped the audition. Hold on one second. Are you viral right now and I was like something on. MTV and buzzfeed disguise viral right. Now you should check this out. And they're like Oh yes let's see let's see it so then I pulled lit up and I showed them they're like oh that's hilarious and I got a call like forty minutes later. As soon as I walked the audition I call my agent. I was like Yo I got got this and he's been booking work ever since it has changed my life as weird as this sounds having a beard. Secure some jobs for me. Sometimes Times. They're looking for men with beard and my competition is very limited. It just really helps me get into the door and then I do the rest of the where does men men also did not start his acting career with facial hair in fact he was actually not allowed to grow facial hair when he was younger. Muhdad has a has a big thing against facial he's like mm stereotypically Singapore in and anyone who has facial hated him shifty dude so in my house the moment I started showing any sort of facial it was like he is a razor. Go town the first time he tried growing at his facial hair was his living out of the House as a college for an exchange student in the states and I was when I was nineteen. And I'm just not going to buy a razor. And how did it go. It was horrible like it was really thin twenty percent density of what I have now which is still quite thin and so you can imagine it was. It wasn't good. It was around this time. That desmond was joking around with his fellow East Asian Australian aspiring actor friends in a pub and he came up with a theory about male actors in Hollywood. He posed it to saga. Can you guys think of an Oscar winning actor who doesn't have the ability to grow facial hair honestly. Leonardo DiCaprio weren't Oscar only after he grew exactly that we went through this whole thing. We went through the list. We will like this person. It's not clear. And there's a notion that and then went onto the discussion of like whatever anyone of these actresses making Oscar bid. What is the first thing? Go Away. See on their face some sort of visual head. That says something about the character already. It's acting without acting. I mean this. Frankly something that I brushed up against like this whole goatee thing and the long hair. That I'm growing out was a pretty. It was pretty calculated decision if you search for music video of Desmond with musician. Jennifer virtual from two thousand and eight back when they were students at UC Irvine. He looked pretty different. He was clean shaven with short. SPIKY hair Now so I I do I I guess about very good John Now. Yeah now I saw nine. He looks like a model because he was a model his agent was sent him out for a lot of leading man. Auditions like these are the rooms. Were at the time for me at walk in. They'd be like fifteen guys. They're thirteen of them. White One black guy and as me. Frankly we never get a callback. They were looking for a certain thing. And it wasn't me with short hair and clean lean shaven so desmond made a choice to grow out both his hair and his facial hair so at the time I was like okay what are the shows going out of the costing my look it. It was Markopoulo Crouching Tiger all those like period warrior shows. What can I do to look more like that? He started getting called in for what he considered. More Asian Asian specific roles which sometimes meant not the lead roles. It wasn't until recently the Asian roles and the leading man roles started to collide for him crazy in the summer of two thousand nineteen he started the ABC series Frick. He played detective White Coal Opposite. Poppy Montgomery's catch chambers the former criminal now working for the government there the shows will they or won't they couple. I'm here because I want to be with you really. We're from totally different worlds. Why it would never work in the long term? I've been there trust me when I say I know about this. I'm not going anywhere. It's GonNa take some time for you to come round to that but you you a magic not a cop and another kind of man so now there's long hair and goatee look look have made him a Hollywood leading man. What does he think now looking back at his younger self with his friends at a pub feeling like he would never be an Oscar winning actor fire if he couldn't grow facial hair? One hundred percent was coming from a place of business. We'd all had a frustrating year. I think we're all pretty decent actors we would just so so bitter and we will like just trying to break down why we would getting anywhere. So that's kind of sucky balance that I have to have to to pull In a way the face it kind of makes me more of that stereotype of manliness. That they're looking for which is not again something that we should necessarily be aspiring to. But this is kind of where we're at right now to be frank In Asia is they're part of you. That's like why is it so important. Portent why put all this power and on facial hair. Yeah I mean it's funny because women are socialized in the complete opposite way to not want extra here. We're taught to shave her body here poker eyebrows that are upper lips right and so far we're just talking about this. Man insists women so when we were expand the topic of Asian men and facial hair we wondered. How does this affect Trans men? What's their perspective on facial hair? I have like a razor for my hair face like two seconds off the Buzzer. Yeah yeah it is user or easier so I got in contact with my cousin meal Chang and his friend Anne Marie Johnson. My Name's Amir. Aw I'm currently a film production Grad student at USC. I am native American Chinese American and and identify as a transgender male harmony. Ms Marie I received. Ucla graduate currently. I'm nine rookie with the Center for Communications and identify as a mixed asian-american transgender non binary queer person they met in college at the transgender. Ucla Pride Club in Twenty Fifteen Emil was in charge of the club. I for three years. And after he left he passed the baton to emory both emory and a male started growing facial hair about a year after they started taking testosterone biting. My Mom againsty starting to stop through she. He's GonNa make a big deal at. How facial hair does? That's what it does. A lot of trans guys really look forward to the facial hair air coming in like that's like an indicator almost of their transition. When I first started growing more disliked peach Could see the other people who noticed it for his other chance is on the beaches. She is for some people. It's more underlined. Another notice it. I could tell their envious public talk about this and it was like this. Is Marina. Meal are taiwanese-american Emil never associated facial hair with masculinity. He thinks maybe it's because he never saw his father or brother spending a lot of time dealing with their facial hair but he understands why I mean a lot to certain trans men especially while their first is transitioning. It's very easy to feel uncomfortable in your masculinity anthem have that tested in various ways. Like facial hairs such a testament for most people to masculinity that I feel like if I could grow it in while it would be very tempting to just grow it to prove something to myself itself but honestly I don't feel like with it and it sounds like the way to keep it up against some people might be we like virtual part of manner that might not have gotten past to participate in early. Wish that they can make for the time being able to do it in the future for a lot of men we interviewed when we asked them who taught them how to shave. They said from their data. What are their older brother? But for meal and emory this wasn't something they could talk to their families about. I started to over in the attorney found out. February word Voice they wanted me to leave. He's yelling they were desperate Solve my family had to keep things to ourselves also my parents. They were Inaba supportive at the beginning. Either but I did it and then I sent them like weekly emails about what was happening happening for like six months. That was my like to keep them involved battles in that talk to them directly so male turn to the Internet for support. I think a big resource for trans men is like Internet videos of like other trans guys transitioning and most of the ones I I saw were all basically non Asian people and they talked about Quite a day because Mike ruined a lot for them and it was very notable in the first stages of their transition. But that wasn't on something that I noticed myself at the time they remember only a couple of Asian American trans men in the public eye such as comedian deleo and swimmer Schuyler. Baylor Taylor we got in contact with Skyler. I am Skyler Baylor. I am a Korean American men and they also happen to be the first transgender athlete to compete under division. One men's reports when Schuyler was a kid. He had an art project where they were told to make a portrait of themselves now and another portrait of themselves in the future. I was invasion overachievers so I ended up making faces instead of two and the last portrait was a picture of an old man with Grey Moustache. I think part of it was I saw myself into the dad. And when I say data like a man parents and I don't know my dad had facial hair I think facial hair is very masculine izing in that people I'll usually assigned male gender to somebody who has facial hair so I think that was probably a factor so I think that's kind of what I was thinking of was that it was that I would grow up to be a man It wasn't that like I would grow up traffic here. I think it was that was a piece of of the male. He said that that portrait series he made as a kid shows that he has always always been the same person like I always been transgender. I always identified as male. I just haven't been able to explain that. That's a pretty common experience with Trans People. Sometimes sometimes it's a huge realization but the realization. I think usually it's like. Oh this is it. This is the reason these are the words. This is the explanation. When he started transitioning he did start growing angel hair? Well I think there's some sort of surge in the Trans Male Trans Mask me when you start to Sasha and it's like I no shave November Blah Blah Blah Blah and A. A lot of my transition has existed online specifically on instagram. And so I kind of like latched on to all of his typical guy things so I did and I lasted until November number. Twenty second he hated it grows and uncomfortable and it just like was prickly. NFL like it was like more. My face more oily than usual Xishan wasn't a fan. He thinks part of the reason he doesn't like it is because he never grew up thinking that much about facial hair. Want people talk about Asians and grow invasion there I don't feel particularly really affected by it because I don't think it's offensive and a lot of my friends who are present agent dump growing facial hair. But I don't really see that as an insult because more seems like facts that I just didn't like okay. That's true also informed by my experiences of transgender person. Because I wasn't raised mail and I didn't grow up saturated in this fight traumatic highschool. It was important to the and I think it isn't. He does sympathize with the assumption in western culture. That Asian men are not seen as masculine. He says that sometimes sees affected by that but for the most part he doesn't care guy don't really care because like I know that I'm a man and this is my Massu in my way and I didn't sign up to be a man on Norway because if I just be jumping from one box to another and that wasn't the point of transition masculinity does not lie in my vigil hair or am I so we're actually in art. My body the testosterone was more to make me feel more comfortable with myself but not for other people to see us. More masculine and male. Emory agree when I first started the transition position. I was in college and just being Collagen being surrounded by all these like dudes I had this perception that took take to be a man. He had his bro Douchebag and that was before I started like hormone treatment so I just tried to like play myself up in that way but as I started hormone treatment began to feel more comfortable with myself I realized that that definitely was not a standard definition of masculinity and and I think I'm still trying to figure it out but I think the idea that Asian making men can't grow facial and therefore kind of feminine. I don't know that idea doesn't really make sense to me in the way that I define masculinity especially now is being open to what what defines you as a person rather than defines you as a man to my thing me history. Read your anger to the Stream Violets which stood. Let's go back to Justin. So he was trying out for the first time and when we left him he was proud to see that he could grow a decent mustache only to realize that many of his friends thought he looked very bad bad with it. She took one look at me and she goes. What is that? Is that your new former birth control. I couldn't imagine it because it's such a disk. Yes so did he really look that bad or was it. Just one person's opinion Justin had to know and he happened to be single and dating at the time meeting a lot of people so he started obsessively asking every woman he met what they thought of his facial hair. He started taking a tally. He took notes. He made charts because they started noticing. A trend he knows will be controversial. It's fascinating because I know to be universal that Asian women. Hey facial hair. They despise it. I have gotten such negative reaction from Asia women specifically that it's like almost muscle hurtful all right. That is not where we expected this conversation to go so we got him to clarify later that when he says he thinks Asian women hate facial hair. He's not talking about all Asian women. He's talking about East Asian women which is not that much better. So let's setback for a second. I have to admit as an East Asian woman and I was Kinda like maybe look bad with your facial hair and the East Asian women are the only ones who are telling you the truth. Do you think he looks bad with the facial hair. No but I hadn't seen him without. Oh facial hair so I thought maybe he just looked much better before and it was hard to believe that all the East Asian women he asked hated it well he was just throwing out a lot of racial generalizations overall. Aw and he has clearly thought a lot about this right now. It's very on trend for black men to have facial hair you look at drake. Look if you look at the Latino community you know. A mustache is a strong many Latinas. See my facial hair when it comes to white people. They're just in this era right now where. I've gone to a weddings weddings in this time period. Better Asian weddings and just assign all blame to my facial hair for striking out. I mean caroline. You're one of these East Asian women he speaks of. Were you also skeptical or do you think that he could be right. I would say half and half. I didn't like the sweeping generalization of Asian women in not liking facial hair and also my boyfriend had facial hair for a while but the other half is a little bit scare that he's actually right. I also kind of have a confession. Confessional make after we interim I was curious so I found two random photos of him on his instagram. One with facial hair one without facial hair and I did a really small instagram poll. I mean it was private and maybe only twenty people voted and what happened well. Most people actually liked him with a facial hair and I hate to say it but the East Asia will prefer the one without the facial hair. Will he kept saying that the data would back hysteria so we decided to help him test out his theory further when we come back to Justin. We'll be trying to figure out if he's right before that we spent the first part of this episode talking about why people want facial hair and why it might symbolize masculinity but why would certain people actively dislike Asian men with facial hair we ask our guest to share some common negative stereotypes of Asian men and facial hair about is enough lament. You veered who men shoot scenario type. Angel hair come in was still coming out of that period where facial head on an ethnic person means bad going dark facial hair because I think of like Jaffar so far in Aladdin. Anything other you write anything to stop the audience from identifying with you so that you can comfortably play a person. It does bad things. They don't feel associated with that I think rally on he's kind of his classic Fu Manchu the Long Mustache Kinda like Chin Goatee action to you. Know that was part of his. Look it just crazy long black hair low balding on the top but but he was just a bad ass fighting. 'cause Mel Gibson or Jean. Claude van Damme or Brandon. Lee or Bruce Willis. That's Patrick Pino. Here's a a clip of him from his Youtube Channel National Film Society describing. Why is his favourite Asian bad guy? He was all the awesome as movies as bad. What like die hard? Thank you isn't diary. Does all of 'em he could fight with his hands with swords with machine guns you. It was just kind of awesome cool mustache. which actually is the reason why I asked today? That clip was from two thousand and eleven. And since then he and this CO director Steven Di Pietro made a whole movie called Awesome Asian bad guys a tribute to all the bad ass. Asian bad guys in eighties movies. That would come in and get killed by the white action. Action Hero. Awesome Asian. Bad guys was a way to celebrate these actors who didn't get their fair due in a few videos actually in the movie itself like Eliane. His mustache is reason. Why have a moustache today? which isn't entirely true but it was always kind of fun to say because he was kind of like my hero growing up and so I wanted to be like him? Why was the evil Asian Guy? His hero growing up weren't many Asian men dudes on TV or in movies. When I was growing up up besides like the bad guys so I would always see Eliane in movies? And I'd be like Yo scariest shit you know and I knew do nothing about him because again. This is before the Internet. So how the heck and find out who this guy is if you remember to look at his name in the credits shore but there's no way to look them up and anything else so he was just there and then there and then there it again and then they're alley. I ended up starring in their Web series when we finally met him. Like first of like. You're the nicest guy in the world second off I was like I can't believe you actually talk. Because he never talked in and he was movies and not only better to be honest. I was like Oh wow. You're from Oklahoma. Patrick has had facial hair since he was fairly young just out of college. And just like he's had a million different hairstyles over the years. He's worn his facial hair in many ways. It's been scraggly Agley and wild. It's been trimmed more clean looking. He's shaved it off but it always comes back the last time I shaved it off a turn it into like a John Waters Pencil Pencil Moustache for a minute even when I was in. HP's movie that we shot last year bitter melon. He's talking about Eighteen Mendoza's film bitter melon. Where Patrick Place Troy Choi a menacing abusive family member? You know I was like changing my look and then kind of you know keeping track I turn thank you thank you very much again. I think there was one time when I was still living in San Francisco. went to go visit my brother in Boston and I remember I was there back in. Oh four and my hair was really long term baggy pants and tank tops and stuff and I was walking back to his condo. And like you know. It's pretty residential pretty empty streets of the day and I was walking like ten feet behind his neighbor who I didn't know at the time and I knew like that's what I'm fully aware you know what I mean in of like how I look like can I help you and I was like. Oh yeah brother loser but for the most part Patrick doesn't put a lot of thought into his facial hair. Maybe it's the privilege of being able to grow pretty easily. But he doesn't think it's a big deal honestly once I agree with that kind of just had it and it's kind of been part of my face you know if if it doesn't get in my mouth when I'm eating good so sometimes facial hair can signify a bad guy awesome or not a rebel or someone who lives outside the social norms. We we have another story of a man growing his facial hair deliberately not for style purposes not to make any statement about masculinity but to demonstrate that something was being deemed normal society society that he was not about to accept. This is one of my favorite photos like ever not even just in my family but if you look at it right so this is in camp. My Anti Chieko is holding this like white doll. My uncle Roy is in some sort of military. Get it with a fake rifle. Well I think it's fake my mom. She just looked so pissed right like look at her face. It's amazing I mean. Granted I think she just looked it kind of pissed all the time her natural face when she was a kid and she's got those glasses and there's my grandma. Aw and there's my grandpa in a suit with his beard so there's just so much going on in this and they're like it's in camp. That's Tracy Cut Okayama Gamma. I'm tracy a Kennicutt Akiyama and I'm an artist based in Los Angeles. I also am the director for Tuesday night project checked. I'm also on the steering committee vigilant. Love she showing US old photos of her family. The photos are from when they were in. The Japanese incarceration camp in man's Dr in the nineteen forties during World War. Two her mother and her aunt were young children at the time the photos from one of her projects call the generations of war which document stories about war resistance and pro-peace peace action from the Japanese American community and beyond Tracy does a ton of work in Los Angeles is Little Tokyo and Japanese American community and she has a facial hair story about by her grandfather. My GRANDPA Takashi. Cocteau was from Shema southern Japan and he came here in the early nineteen in hundreds as a farmer so he and his brothers his buddies they all came here to do farming work in the fields. He was doing work all throughout what is now L. A. County and he had a a nursery over in Inglewood right near the airport at the time of December seventh nineteen forty one. When he went to manor he became one of the farmers? They're the they all had to grow food that they were going to eat. If they were going to eat he came out of there and then he had another farm in Torrance and then he moved on onto right here in Gardena on Artesia Boulevard. He had another nursery there so he was you know he was a nursery man his whole life and yeah just a hard worker. Hard drinker drinker hot tempered with the stubble always had an stubble in his age. Tracy actually didn't know him for very long because she was only four years old when he died. Ed My attachment toy GRANDPA's through other people's stories and other people's memories but in this weird way I just feel like it Kinda was a person who grew up with the GRANDPA because I think that he helped out a lot of people and so they would always want to talk to about my grandpa and tell me stories. Tracey's grandfather along with one hundred twenty thousand other Japanese Americans was put in an incarceration camp during World War Two not long after for executive order nine. Zero six was signed both my mom's side of the family and my Dad's side of the family they got shipped out in the springtime to you. Manson are Manzana was one of the eleven camps across the country where the US government incarcerated these Japanese Americans so they stayed there four over over three and a half years like so many families right ever. Since nineteen sixty nine there has been a pilgrimage to Manson are every year. It's a way for Japanese Americans Americans to remember this history and build solidarity with other communities to make sure an injustice like this never happens again I started going to the pilgrimage at mansard. It's not pretty early age. And there's a little museum and they really dedicate their site to an exhibit on Manson are every year they bring out all of there. Manson are photographs and my brother found this panorama photo of the farmers in man's and our tracy showed us this black can white photo and in the dead Sanur is my grandpa standing up in the back row. And he has a white shirt on and his Big BLACKBEARD is growing there. And I remember that in every photograph before four and after camp he was totally clean shaven like when he thinks his produce always had his button-down shirt his suspenders. I always looked very clean and clean shaven literally and in other pictures I started to see of him in Manson are he always had this beard and so I was like so curious. Not Ask my mom and you know just to tell me if she knew why that was and she's like on and I think she thought it was just practical like he just did it. Just it just happened right but there is something inside me that there's something about out that so it wasn't until years later that I think it was like late in high school. We were at the annual Cossutta kyw luncheon and at that lunch one of my uncles uncle. Tommy he liked to talk about my GRANDPA and They all had looked up up to my GRANDPA and so I was like. Can you tell me about the beard and Michael Thomas like Oh you know what that was for psych. What protest test? Your GRANDPA didn't think he had to look pretty encamped so when he got in there he said. I'm not GonNa Shave until I'm Outta here. So that's why he grew that beard protests protests and I was like so of all the stories I've ever heard in my my grandpa was like right like I was like so proud crowd and I was so happy that he did that that he had this sort of a form of protest. That was his and his alone right and I knew that that beard eared was for something I don't think he was involved in any of uprisings in camp say but I think people just had their different forms of protests helping people pull out that was his way of being involved in engaged in active. It was to be a part of something where he's taking care of other people and they're helping each other out. He was always thinking about his community. In that way. You know I think real life experiences that my family everything that they went through well before I was ever born. It affects the work that I do today. We have a legacy of not just trauma but we have a legacy of clamor. We have have a lot of instances of people speaking up not just for self and family but for other I knew was something different About me to a how are you feeling about this just in. Are you confident by cofferdam right. I mean look look I honestly I will position this as a win win for either. I'm right by my ideas or I'm proven wrong and my faith is restored humanity so okay. Let's find some people who are just chilling. We're in little Tokyo in Los Angeles and the La Asia Pacific Film Festival happens to be going on. We have a photo of Justin without facial hair and our plan is to go up two asian-american strangers and ask them whether they prefer him with or without it. Okay so this is just an. He doesn't usually facial hair he grew it out for movember looking at him and then looking at Photo all of them without facial hair and just Basically we're curious if you prefer him with or without facial hair in question the superficial question he just grew from movember so he's deciding whether to get rid of it or not so it's not going to hurt his feelings either way. We're just curious. What do you prefer her? I prefer you what facial hair it makes a lot more mature and if you walk into like an interview with my ceo or something will totally are you at the beard whereas lists. You look like you can be Jabba. Walkie thing on. I'm sorry. Don't have masks. I feel like the facial hair works In a statement that all facial hair works joe but like I feel like it looks good okay. Are you just saying that. Because he's here and you don't WanNa be mean lean. Tim Facial hair I think for without the facial. There don't give it oh interesting Marked by your without much cleaner better than most employees commute. Tell me why you don't like Fischler so my dad actually has a mustache And so growing up like when I was little and he would kiss me and like the mustache. Hoke me I hated about so that's why I don't like facial hair. It's nothing against guys at all. It's just the feel of it. I think facial hair especially for Asian Americans is actually something accentuates your features and I also think it makes people taking more seriously because it Makes someone like older like you without because it makes you look younger. He'll this and he looks very clean. Cut like this so it just depends on what you want to go where I just said he looks Nadia this innocent bottom. My Asian friends friends don't like guys with facial hair personally. I think there is a tendency towards like for at least for my friend grew to prefer less facial hair on dudes that they're dating or the. I think it's definitely something that rings true for me. Personally how's the tally going is still almost equal. It's very close. Wait but if it's close then I think I win right. Yeah because you said just proves my theory. How do you feel oh good? Does that change whether you're going to keep your facial hair or not. It might actually so eight hours. Think we learned from this. Well I think it just sort of showed us more complicated than we thought. I think naturally you want him to be right or wrong right but then we start talking to people on hearing their personal stories than you get the spectrum of ideas. Even even though has huge generalization didn't prove to be true like you couldn't completely discount some of his ideas. 'cause you found people that agreed with him. I mean it wasn't just about looks flaking a dating way or about you know whether he was quote unquote handsome or not a lot of it. Where people's stories about their families or their communities or their backgrounds or were they grow up so it's not just like this really simple aesthetic question? It's really complicated. I guess facial hair brings a lot of people anyway at the time of the interview. He kept saying he would shaved off his goatee soon but he was stalling because he had grown fond of it and he did shaved off his goatee. But the next year four-memeber he grew it back again. For last story we spoke with each Jeet Singh to explore growing out your facial hair for religious reasons. I am this thing. The irony cartoonist writer performance artist and a storyteller is sometimes dawn captain. America uniform to confuse people that's is right vs frigid is sick Captain America. Before that he was an engineer for fifteen years in case you haven't heard of him around twenty fourteen. He started going out to colleges come conventions and eventually. The trump inauguration wearing a captain America uniform. He'd hold signs that said. Let's kick some intolerant ass with compassion and black Muslim Trans Latino Asian white we all make America great instead of helmet he wears a turban and of course. He keeps his traditional beard. I call my beard a sparsely populated populated beard. It's not very big bushy and I actually permit with my fingers. I'm always rolling them. So they kind of have this two strands sticking down. PG can connect his stages of facial hair to the stages in his life. I grew up in a six. I don't have a choice to my parents. Were born into the faith. Which is the fate of India? I as part of that faith. Both men and women don't Shit they're hairs. He didn't start going facial hair and tells late. Teens and early twenties though visa cheat was born in Washington DC. His family moved to India when he was a kid. So my experiences in India were sort of interesting because they're most people know who six ours when they see somebody with a beard beard and sort of a hair on top of that has a whole set of stereotypes that are associated there. He explained that at the time. There were political tensions involving the sick minority in India India. Thousands were targeted with violence. We had to share with that Bob that House because this spotted my dad had the balcony and he didn't have his turban on because we're at home but he had hat is beard and that's how he got mark okay. We here's this guy. He has two sons with him so we had a mob that came to our house and fortunately for us the kids in the neighborhood. My Hi friends about nine ten to thirteen fourteen year olds who somehow were able to talk about dragging us out and killing us. After high school he moved back to the US. My first experience experience was really intensive negative. Because I was just sprouting a bearded facial hair like a mustache and just a little bit of a stable and this was an la. So I I moved to La. Before where. I started college at Ohio State and people just I had a big struggle sitting in because everybody saw me as the ultimate other item fit in. I'm not from here. Are they admitted very obvious. Beer people call all kinds of names. Genie ragged head and so we would just laugh on my face. They wouldn't even say anything. So so I became a credibly intensely aware of me not belonging he transferred to UC Santa Barbara his sophomore year. I did not I want to stand out and so the only thing I could figure out. Hey I can take off my turban and I can shave my beard and I can cut my hair so I actually did that. So that was my hi way of sort of trying to become invisible and not sending out but he had never shaved her cut his hair before so for me. I'm twenty years old and it's the first time I Cut My hair and shaved. Yeah I I actually cut my hair on top. That was sort of the long hair and I went to Salona Barber. He put my hair in a ponytail tail and then he kind of with a single click con- cut most. They hear that was a pretty intense experience the beard. Actually I did it myself. I gotTa Electric Schumer and I. I had friends who were clean shaven and so they had these tools in their shavers. So I kinda borrow those and so it was. It was a strange experience when you get two you for the first time in your life. He didn't tell anyone. I just Kinda did it and so I think people were quite surprised. It felt weird. I mean obviously felt very new and fresh fresh and I remember looking around at people and seeing if there was staring at me and it didn't feel like you know the is. We're off me for sure because I didn't have that turban anymore and beer Someone like Oh wow this work out anywhere on. That's the cool thing. His parents were still in India at the time. He told his mom I after his mom told his dad his his dad didn't speak to him for fifteen days. Then he just kept saying you gotta gray hair back and so I am I think is just like he was intensity. Attached to that identity and I had other insecurity vulnerabilities and things that to me were more important at the time that was when he started exploring all different types of religions. It wasn't until Oh he was in Grad school and staying with his brother in the bay area that he found himself drawn back to the sick so I stayed with him and he had discovered a sick faith in his own journey in college in India he had done subsequently moved to the. US You know he always had hams on playing on his boombox. And I just to me. That was a little bit of jarring hiring experienced. Because I'm just so out of that experience since childhood are not listen to these But after few months by his sudden with US music I would say maybe towards Undergrad school and after finishing Grad school and kind of said. Let me try this faith that I was born into so that was Kinda my first time. I made a choice on my own. Okay you know what I'm going to give it a shot. Let's see what I find. It took almost two years for him to grow his facial hair and the hair on his head back to its full length so I put on a turban almost after ten years in August. Two thousand one so I was actually working about ten fifteen miles north of New York City and then of course a month later nine eleven. What happened and that was just an incredibly tense experiencing for all Americans but for me as terminent beer in America it was even more intense because of how now people perceive determined he and his brother happened to be working the same? It company at the time they were from home. I'm for the first two weeks after nine eleven because I didn't feel safe going out so I had people at work who did not know me. It was big company. who were giving me strange? Looks within hours of the towers coming down and we heard so many stories. We I have friend of mine. who was pulled out of a train the first few hours just because he had a turban and a beard by security forces? There were so many other stories of people. They'd ribbon off highway being being called names when he we did finally go outside people would roll down their car windows just to flip him off is made me feel like you know on somebody who committed these crimes of nine eleven. There were always people would call me some of the first few months and years after nine eleven go back home. Donavan that just became became so frequent. Nine I just became something like that's part of life. He shaved his beard and taken off his Turban College. Why don't you think about doing it this time? Especially when he was getting harassed so I think the main difference was back in my college days. I just did not have a solid grounding of who I was I think I just felt so much intense sense of otherness that I just felt hey. I'd rather respond to other people's fear and his security by myself post nine eleven. It was different because I made my own choices and I had fallen in love with his faith so that I think that connection at that grounding kind of kept me sound and said fine okay this is a challenge and I think there are times when you know who you are and what choices you've made and pats you're following philosophy. You try to live by BBC. You know what I'm gonNA respond to other people's fear and security. I'm not GonNa let that Dr who I am in two thousand and two. He started the website sick tunes and started drawing cartoons based on his own experiences as a sick person in America. Post nine eleven happen so that was kind of like my outlet to process all this Hayden frustration and anger and seer fusion. That was sort of out there. I felt it sort of kept me sane because it was hard I mean I got angry at times like would you judge me very obvious. I'm an American but you know in my ahead on thinking that's obvious. Obviously for many Americans they see beard immediately have stereotypes of characters from Hollywood films or depending on the news cycle and depending on their specific stereotypes. They placed me all over them at least basically whereas visa. I wanted to show that there were all types of turbans and all types of beards birds as I create my cartoons. My visuals are very different. Because I grew up in a culture full of terminal beards and I mean there are all kinds of years. I mean can you have hate bushy curly oily smooth head though too. They're like of all different kinds of beards. His cartooning tuning and his performance art as captain. America has made him an advocate for not only the population but also other underrepresented or targeted communities for the last five years. He's been doing storytelling workshops. I started getting invitations from schools. Are asking me to come and talk about. Why do cartooning? And how do I express express a deal with my identity and the first thing I do is always like to ask a couple of questions I say what are some of the first words that come to mind because I want to sort it out a little sense of how they perceive me without knowing me and it's interesting I've seen over time was call and response especially with young elementary and middle school kids. They'll always say careered turban really cool beard. I find that the younger kids who are really fascinated by the beard and turban and they use usually very positive indicators labels for the air my next question is where do you think I'm from and that that's a question where it's almost near-unanimous most we'll place me outside of the US India Asia Africa and or octave. Or something you know they feel like I'm so so alien. I must be from the North Pole or South Paul and then nothing malicious very honest like the just thinking. Hey you're not from here. Then he tells them his story the same story he told US ending with how how he's now become known as Captain Sick America and then he asks again. What words would you use now to describe me because of my story in other words changed radically because not as saying how cool creative raid? Wow this guy's cool. He's one of us so to me that. Give me a lot of for the future. And what's interesting thing is is always a few kids who will start incorporating terminal beer into the art. So they'll you know cupcakes with beards turbans or their create animal animal Hannibal's with beards and turbans. They will greer aliens. Or they'll create presidents American presidents. All or basketball there but they these kids who've never probably seen somebody in person like myself certainly not hard story but I think it's the power of storytelling and then connected to parts of my stories realizing hey you okay. He's been bullied as well. Struggles with identity and he does cartooning yellow and he dresses up his captain America. Didn't they just find all of their by. Yeah you know I can totally relate to him right a to me. That's like wow that is humbled at the same time just makes me so excited kids. who maybe the tide turbans and beards are not American? Now they're like. Hey you know what I'M GONNA use them in my heart because either starting as low as I stop believing thrill life kick them up again because I chose to believe the world could be more than what I see around me. Assure you my cake doesn't fly. Bad men win been good men. One small spark could like the whole night one small life could fight the good fight. Hugo's oranges childhood dreams grown men and women still need. I can't read your mind or fire. Relief team would have reaching coker a fierce. How much more can be seen? Captain carries a shield around ten. If bullets hit me how when you wrote them she fell face super we becomes euros. kizer one mix. It's human talking to all of these people will and hearing their stories. I really showed us that. Facial hair on Asian men is a lot more complicated than we thought yes. I think that's why we had to explorer so many different types the stories. I think when you first hear the idea for an entire podcast episode about Asian American men and facial hair. You might think that. Take up an entire hire episode. But when you think about other so many different types of experiences all of them are valid and all of them are uniquely Asian. American facial hair is more than just hair on your face. It inner we's with a lot of different parts of your identities and we just wanted to tell some of these stories and you know I'm all about telling stories. Thank you to all our guests. In today's episode Justin Ching recently finished directing the Docu series soul origins and finished writing a coming of age film called free three periods. You can find him on all social media at just an arching. That's Justin or C. H.. I. G. Learn More about its production company at J. Dash School Dot. Co while you're waiting to learn about Desmond chums role in Marvel's the Falcon and the winter soldier. You can catch him on. ABC's Reef break. You can also follow Desmond and on twitter and Instagram at does Chum. That's D. E. S. C. H. I. A. M. Saga Shake was recently in twenty nine teens. ABC covers and and you can listen to more of him on his podcast. Bollywood boys find him on twitter and Instagram at soccer. That's S. H. W. G. R. Patrika Pino co-produces the podcast long distance alongside producer and host Paula Mateo. The show tells stories from the Filipino. Diaspora you might recognize them. From previous episodes of Asian Americana he also produces documentary companion opinion series long distance. TV catch them on twitter and instagram. At Patrick Aquino. That's Patrick. Api Ano- Emil. Chang is currently finishing Grad school At USC School of Cinematic Arts Focusing in cinematography and writing you can find out more on his website. Es Chang Dot Com. That's E. S. C. H. A. N. N. G. DOT COM. Emory Johnson is in the MFA film production and Directing Program at Ucla School of Theater Film and Television and is currently developing an experimental documentary on transgender. International students. Follow them on Instagram at Emory Chow. Johnson that's E. M. O. R. Y. C. H. A. O. J. O. H. N. S. S. O. N.. Scholar graduated from Harvard and recently finished a nationwide speaking tour you can find him on twitter. At SB Underscore Pink Manta Ray on instagram program. At Pink Monterey or Website Pink Monterey Dot Com Tracy Cutler Kitty Obama continues to work on so many things theater poetry community organizing. You can find more about her on her website. TRACY CHEMI DOT COM. That's T. R. A. C.. I A. K. E. M. I. Dot Com these fidget sing recently recently. Had his first solo exhibit of illustrations at Seattle's wing. Luke Museum it was called Wham Bam POW cartoons turbans confronting hate. His work is inspired a new portrait store. Chilling project called the American Superhero which captures all types of Americans in superhero form. You can follow him on twitter instagram at six tunes. That's S. K. H. H. T. O. N. S. and see his cartoons at six tunes Dot Com. Thanks also to today's producers. The I finish a complete episode with me on Asian America gotTa Eight is saying is the entertainment editor for Times at the Los Angeles Times. You can find your on twitter at Ada Sang. That's eighty eight T. S. E. N. Asia and on instagram. At eight hundred eighty eight. You can also hear her on our fellow potluck. PODCAST Saturday school. Caroline Chang is a writer arts administrator and event event planner. You can find her on Instagram at words and Cats Asian economies hosted and produced by me when he servicemen. Today's episode was produced by eight in Carolina. Chang and edited by me are opening song as we belong by magnetic north and tionna featuring Christie. The song you're hearing with these credits is we are the children by Chris. Jima no-go Moto and Charley Chimp. The music he heard during this episode included. Take it back by. Shouldn't Coa Sake. I don't know let's sing by by Jennifer trump more than Real Connie Lim Aka milk. That's milk with a C. K.. Yellow by Leo Shah. Something about today by Chris. Jima Nobuko Miyamoto and Charlie Chan and marvels by Jason Shoe Featuring Sarah Jake you can visit our site of Asian Americana Dot Com find us on facebook and follow us on twitter at Asian underscore Americana. If you like the show. Please rate and review us on Apple podcasts. And again if you really like the show your donations donations. Let us do more episodes with more producers like this one so please become a monthly supporter on Patriae on. Just click the support button on our website. asian-american crowdfunding member of potluck outlook a collective of podcasts featuring voices and stories from the Asian American community. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for more stories of Asian American. Uh potluck I want to hear more check out this other show from from the POTLUCK podcast collective. Hey Brian did you go to Saturday school as a kid I sure did. Did you totally our podcast Saturday school. We don't teach a language but we pass along the culture that we do know. And that's Asian American pop culture. Eight is a journalist. And I'm a professor and film festival programmer. Lost a lot of great Asian American movies. And we want you to watch them to come listen to us as we look back at the pioneering films that have led us today.

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Kevin Parker (Tame Impala) with Dan Snaith (Caribou)

Talkhouse Podcast

1:00:52 hr | 5 d ago

Kevin Parker (Tame Impala) with Dan Snaith (Caribou)

"Hi this is Keri. Brownstein studio. This is Darren Aronovski you've got the Lizzo right here is me down on Radio Tyler charcoal quest for an arms, Tim Brits. All your when Yosef Moscow cosmas Lewis. And you're listening to the talk house podcasts. Up It's your host, Elliott? Einhorn. Welcome back to the Talk House podcast here on the show we pair artists in UN moderated long-form conversations in the last couple of months alone we featured Carly Rae Jepsen with 'em Xm to Mac DeMarco with Dayglo Jeremy O'Hara's Harris with perfume genius dip low and Charlie Crockett. Interpol's Paul Banks and obey Honcho shepherd ferry running out of breath the next few weeks bring teagan and Sara with dead deaf tones, Chino Moreno with comedian Reggie Watts, and fishes. Mike Gordon with Leo Cocky. What I'm getting at here people is subscribe. So you don't miss out and while I've got your attention, please vote vote vote vote vote vote that terrible human out of the White House vote. and. Now, for today's seriously incredible show Tame Impala Kevin Parker with Dan Snaith Aka Caribou. These brilliant artists are big fans of each other's work and while they'd met before, they'd never had a chance to really get. That's where the talk house podcasts comes in to help me intro this week show the man myth, the legend, the wearer of too many hats to talk how to count in only one show the owner of not one not two but three tame t shirts Keenan, Kush welcome back to the show man hey, Elliott has it going good good great to hear your voice again it's been too long since you graced us with your presence. This is one that we needed you on. You are talk houses Resident Tame expert and Psych Rock Lover I gotTA. Say Hell Yeah. Man. I think going back. You know when I first joined talk us we had this big meeting where we were really just brainstorming the biggest names. We could get there the dream ask being on the show and probably someone at the very top of the list would be tame Impala Kevin, Parker and you know we've come. So close to this I was out couple of years ago at desert days and we almost got this talk between stew from King Gizzard in the Lizard Wizard and Kevin Parker would have been the Australian psychedelic rock consortium a summit a summit but it was not to be schedules didn't align and it slipped away. Now here we are finally we have captured the white whale. Captured. The White Wail, Keenan you and I woke up very early for this conversation Dan was recording at his home in the UK cabin was in an undisclosed location in Australia across in a lot of time zones that day were. Now Kevin had only an old analogue four track recorder. So instead of recording to cassette and having him mail it halfway around the world utilized that Black Mirror we've all got in our pockets to record his side of this show. Dan Has a beautiful home studio and was able to record his side there. Thanks, Jen. Now, for the few of you out there who don't know Keenan, please drop some knowledge about Kevin. So Kevin Parker Aka Tame Impala he cut a masqueraded as a ban for the first few albums and finally came out as the true solo mastermind that he is almost every instrument every vocal hearing on these past four. Is played or sung by Kevin himself. Yeah. It's amazing that he does it all himself and he's been a sought after collaborator. He's worked with huge stars like Lady Gaga the weekend and Travis Scott, and after those mini mini collaborations, we finally have a new Tame Impala record the first in five years titled The slow. Rush, which came out back in February I don't know if you can remember back in February that was February was that was that like twenty years back felt like? The slow rush is an absolutely gorgeous record and from that LP let's check out the track breathe deeper. One of my favorites from the record, the man is truly brilliant as is his counterpart in this talk Kevin is a huge Fan of Dan Snaith Aka. Caribou. Another artist, who does it all himself in the studio and only brings out the live band for shows. Dan is an experimental pop producer who has wowed fans for two decades with his incredible genre hopping sounds. He's INC psych, House hip-hop disco, and more. If you can think of a sound, there's a good chance he's sampled. It twisted it played. With it put it in a blender made a poor over coffee out of it and incorporated it into a joint suddenly caribous fifth full length record and those Caribou fans have had a similar way as tame. Impala fans was released February Twenty Eighth Twenty Twenty on merge records and city slang to incredible labels. parenthetically came I wanNA play attract for our listeners. That's one of my favorites of the year. It's been remixed by four Tet Morgan geist but I wanNA play the album version of never come back. fucking love Caribou I also love this conversation Keenan they get into a lot here. One of the things that really jumped out as you and I were on this call some wonderful gear talk. Oh. Yes. One thing that I just love to hear is that these guys are not super elitist about gear. You know a favorite piece of student gears, kind of like your favorite football team and I think. I love and I also love that we get a little peek into how we get that sweet sweet tame impala sound. We also hear about their entirely different creative processes. They also talk about their journey of confidence an artist. Yeah. Different thinking. On this one, they get into the live concert experience and how it's been both awesome and tough to scale up their shows. Yet both artists kind of reflect on the joy in spontaneity of playing these small scrappy shows and get to hear about the very first time Kevin Heard Caribou and freaked out. and Vice Versa to roll the tape man let's do it. How you doing Kevin I'm good man I'm really good I'm down south at the moment I just started rocking file I'm getting better making vases. There's a little fireplace. Yeah. Oh, you have got to remember it's your evening way you're the place you're in is very dark by the looks of things you there to record this they're. Just just Tina Hang Out I'm just here. On my own kind of like to just spice out sometimes and Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you're in the UK era. Yeah. I'm in this room that I'm sitting in my little basement studio. Awesome. Where record everything? Yeah. Is that a is that a mini moog behind you? Yeah. You can see that there's many move is at an original or reissue no, it's a reissue. It's I mean. Great to me. Yeah. The thing that I just bought a couple of days ago is They're making an arp twenty, six hundred but I bought an original one. I'd be playing Sam floating points one I I used it on the my last record, a bunch and I was just like this thing is out of this world while like it's it's such a beautiful thing. So that's that's that's the big one right. Yeah Yeah. Yeah you need like a university degree to be able to operate it. I. Don't know about the hat. Really. Yeah. You can use it without it being modular in any way. There's there's a video I think of Ozzy Osbourne trying to use it just say. Fuck. You so pissed off it. It's pretty user friendly. Actually, it feels like an instrument rather than something that's you have to like assembled. Is playable like that. So do you believe that there could be a digital version of that that would trick you into the heat's the real one? Well, you know I had this for ages because a lot of my well, my friends run the whole gamut of like buying every vintage synth imaginable. Like forget it. I'm just caring in. Fort for example, just makes music with nothing basically you know some samples and a laptop and that's it. Some albums like swim the elms like music I was making ten years ago I use kind of software version of an ARP twenty, six hundred and I was really happy with the way that it sounded. But then last year when I was working on suddenly the most recent album. Sam's like I'll give you the keys, my studio. You can just come and mess around with whatever you want when I got in there and I played some of his stuff I was like, oh That's why you just turn it on and it sounds unbelievable. Exactly. How about you? Are you? Do you have like the perfect? Compressor the in the you know the perfect channel Strip for everything. It's so funny like I've I've moved between being kind of sacred about objects a real things like. This real fucking DX one, six five. That's the juice like like that's it and going like what does it fucking matter? when you've got a real one digital one somewhere in the mix. If you had to of a song, I need some switched out some piece of equipment in there. Yeah. For a different version of it like anyone know or care like the coupon spinning totally. My philosophy is like it's just how much fun you have making it like a half you enjoy. Patching in that compressor. From Nine, seventy nine and you watch the needles, go by the you know what the viewed. You see it lot up. You're not. Yeah. If that's what gets through to the end to the finish line of making if that's what is fun about the process then that's all that matters you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and also if you're using a piece of software for me anyway I'm not using it to like exactly try and replicate something. That would be no fun like trying to force it into into being this thing that it's not but it's just about kind of approaching the things that you've got. In a way that's fun and creative and not spend like I. Don't WanNa get sucked into those like youtube videos that are comparing this and that. I think the you know the square wave on this is. Just like forget it. I bet we also had a similar path in that I started out making like I made my first three albums without knowing that there was a thing called the compressor technical things. I had no idea. So just making stuff in whatever way I could and trying to get it to buy decent. First reality is Andorra one of those. What number? No, that's the that's the fourth one. Yeah. But I still barely knew what a compressor was. Because we were doing stuff by ourselves I, kind of assume in a fairly similar DIY way without being in a big expensive studio yet, we just figured out ways of doing things that didn't require those like classic pieces of Equipment Anyway title it's funny. My my favorite story with all that is like the first comparable. Literally just went on Ebay and topped in vintage compressor. Drum, sending vintage compress up. Abe searched for vintage compress the only one that was available in Australia was one, six five and has my favorite compressor now juice because it was that was the one that was closest to get her and now, and now I swear. But now it's like my favorite compress what if it was difficult press you know I feel like it's like football teams. Like what are you go for that team because he's dotted going for, and now now you die by them. Totally. Yeah. Totally. It's funny. Do you feel like Because I think you have such a wonderful sound characteristic sound in your production that people would say like. Kevin Parker he's like a Master of studio technique and this could same question. If we want to move away from Techie, kind of stuff could apply to like song writing or whatever playing the instruments that you play your obviously super proficient as well. But my impression, I don't know what people think when they feel my record listen to my records but I always My feeling is like I just barely know enough about what I'm doing to like get this record done and when I start a new one, I'm like, why didn't they learn anything like the last six or seven albums I made them just like sitting there. There's I can get started but I'm like how the fuck did I do that last night I'm like, what? What, why don't I know how to do this yet How do you feel on that spectrum of well? The. First thing I'll say about that is like I, think that's a good sign because it's like. I think that's a sign that you don't rely on sort of techniques that you've sort of repeatedly learnt. That you're not going about it. The same method each time because if you did that, you'd get better than you and you'd be you'd know that you proficient. Like the fact that we kind of just feel it out. Each time is assigned the we do it organically. You know that's that's the way because like I one hundred percent feel exactly the same way I feel like every time I wrote an Alabama have to relearn how to write a song yeah. How do you? How do you mix drum kit? With that kind of thing, I kind of feel like I'm the worst in the world at it until I'm suddenly the best in the world and it's such a mutual way of looking at it. Everything running except drum sounds I'm like this is trash. This is awful. This is embarrassingly sheet, and then suddenly like Oh it's brilliant. Do you know what I mean like suddenly Oh you know this is like I stand by this I could share this with the world and feel good about I think like a huge part of why it still as exciting and fun and everything for me as right at the beginning was that like moment is still there when things just like click and I'm like fuck guests this is this is really working yeah I feel like that's what we'd do a full. Yeah told. Jason the jagged. Even when that happens sometimes I'm like, did I do that or did it just like happened by coincidence? I have moments when I'm like did that just kind of fortuitously fall into place and I guess that's the kind of confidence thing. Now looking back over the years I'm like I've made stuff that I'm happy with enough time. Then there's something in there that even if I'm not consciously aware of how to put those pieces together doing something right and I am and that helps me just like trust the process of just make you sick make music and that moment will happen again you know Yeah Oh. So many questions that I have just their bottle necking into one. In the whole question of confidence. As an artist do you think that US slowly becoming more confident like each time you released something that you can confidently. Say It's good. Only ask that because I feel like I am. Slowly growing confidence. All comes crashing down sometimes, you just want to delay everything you've ever done but I feel I first released an album had no confidence in it. You know I wasn't able to enjoy it and and I think like having my confidence in it and then sort of like retrospectively looking back I'm going like, Oh, it was pretty good like realizing that that's a cycle in each time you do it. So that's probably what's going to happen again like when are released an album usually that's like the lowest point of my opinion of that. That's funny. And it goes up from there. Okay. Like it's funny because you. emailed. Me a little while ago saying like, Hey, let's like swap albums. And that was just finished the Slo. I just finished recording recording it, and that's usually when I can't listen to. Any music that I hear that's amazing. Just sounds incredible. It's Depressingly good. And you will hey, let's say you my album I remember saying please. Yeah, I know I can't I can't. I can't deal with new Caribou album and now. Yeah I could recognize, but it's funny. It's happens at a different time for me because and this is super fascinating to me. Again, I'm the questions are bottle-necking again. Feel like generally I'm kind of growing in confidence and the other thing that's super important to me is having the same people my whole twenty years of you make music, my wife and Karen Hampton for both of those people will take me down I trust both their tastes in music and they will tell me with like the unvarnished truth. They'll just be like, yeah, this garbage move on you know and that's so so important. But the other thing that's important for me and you know we're both working by ourselves, right? That's peculiar or. About. US I. Suppose. Have having common yet. Definitely the thing is that in this blows, my mind about you is that I need to let it sit like by the time I'm sending you that album the that I've quote unquote just finished Scher may have just finished the like final tweaks in the mixing a mastering and stuff but the songs and all the parts of it have been done for months I'm sitting on I'm sitting on it and that's how I get a sense of that I'm happy with it whereas I've heard in interviews you talk about like you know I'm finishing a song tonight and then it's going off to mastering tomorrow and you know like you're finishing significant parts of a song At that late stage that would scare the shit out of me because. You know what? We've all had that moment where you listen back to something a week later and you're like, Oh, no, I was excited about the habit. It's not what I thought. It was whatever. So having that deadline between like putting parts together and it being like stamped signed sealed finished would really scare me because I think past the passage of time is something that I rely on. So yeah. Yeah. Do that would you do? It's it's traumatic. Yeah is traumatic and every time I do it I swear to myself and I'm not going to let myself do it again because it's all because I'm a progress tonight a right and we'll be on fault because I will say like. I want to release the song at this point in time like a month from now, and so the record level of set the date and they'll so you're to have a done by then definitely. Right. and. So I backing myself and Doco going every time where I have to come up against but usually it's kind of just like a song or when it comes to the album and I haven't finished I haven't finished it like when it comes to what really matters I never do it like that, right? But some of the pressure helps you think because I just don't let those deadlines be set. You know I won't let a release date or whatever be set or mastering date even be set until I'm confident that yeah. Okay. The only things that need to be done on this or kind of cosmetic little. Fixes or whatever that I know? I. Can do I'd never do it. Yeah. A hole in the record with where a song should be kind of or something like that. Yeah, that's that's that's really admirable and and I think just scared I don't know if it's admirable. Yeah. Well. self-disciplined then. Maybe I guess like sometimes I get a bit wrapped up in the excitement of releasing a song aw, the whole world of releasing music, for example. Like before a festival or something. I, it lost in that that world. But it's it provides excitement and you know like pressure can be good. I think sometimes I don't know maybe. Yeah, I think it's essential. Yeah. I'd probably never finish anything if I did right. It's funny because like by the time I'm finished a song for me like the best moment of making music is kind of like that kind of that Aha moment that we touched on before that moment of like I've got. which happens may kind of like a long time before finish the song. and. So finishing the song is really just to share with the world. Finishing it is because it's that. Process. Probably wouldn't finish music if I didn't after lays. Yeah. Right. My songs would be perpetually in the state of unfinished. Yeah because like. Making those decisions can be tough. You know do you rely on other people's feedback at all? Because if you're in a band with people, there are other people in the room whether you like it or not telling you that they like that. Bass. Part or whatever We're not there's nobody else in the room most of the time. So do you rely on people's opinions or do you just laser focus trust your own judgment on things I try to trust my judgment but I mean I hate what my brain does when I play Tobepal I'm are sensitive to their every facial movement you design thing happen to you like just. Like doesn't it? It's weird. It's like don't like a different song. Yeah. Isn't that funny which is I. Think is really helpful, right? I. Mean it kind of to get outside of our being. So inside the the bubble of our own reactive but it is terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think like you'll anxious of playing it to that person like in. Here, differently, that can be sort of. A bad distortion of reality. Sometimes, you'll think the vocals of loud of. or or you know you'll like the Vogel is dry or something you you become more self conscious it's a it's a strange based. Yeah. Playing playing music. Definitely, do you do you like the songs when you've played them live one hundred times I mean or there's some of them you like lasts every as time goes on or how does that work or is it totally different thing? You know does it not even? Relate to it's Kinda separate. It usually sounds better because when I'm singing love, you know it's like it's a it's a raucous environment. Of drinks you know what I mean like it's kind of like the live thing is rough your pitch perfect saying I mean th as it's another question that I wanted to ask you for me. Singing is the thing that I should not be doing. You know I'm not a singer and I am embarrassingly bad at saying I went as long as I could with playing live shows where we had the vocals on a backing track and kind of a video. Flaming Lips Audi rumor. They did that kind of thing anything to get me out of actually having this thing live and then at some point, it was obvious. Okay. Now, I'm going to have to start and we did a whole tour when I just sung one song live and then I gradually got to the point where I'm seeing all the songs live obviously yeah. But sometimes I think okay this is like a really severe limitation on what I can do musically you know put me in front of a piano and I'M Totally happy and comfortable because that's my instrument but singing is something I have to work at and sometimes I. Think he maybe that's good. You know maybe it means the melody has to really work or click because just listening to my voice saying isn't enough you know there's gotta be something engaging about the malady or the how it fits with the harmony or something like that. But I think that's one of the interesting things about Caribou like you'll vocal melodies and the why you sing them at the melodies melodic in this So. Pretty and some of those almost pop R&B, Melodies. And it's the kind of melody where you could imagine someone else singing it someone with. I've some crazy iron voice, but it's interesting that it's your voice seen like that's that's that's what gives us. Interesting Yeah I've kind of got to a point where I understand that over the being able to be like, okay. That is what's different. Thank you for saying that. Can I ask you a a little side bonus question? Yeah. When you imagine vocal melodies, do you imagine someone else singing it like does it sound like it's your voice or do imagine it sounding completely different and then like when you sing it's your voice. We question but there have been times when I've thought about other people, sing it or thought. would be a good melody. Am I going to be able to pull it off with definitely the more on gun through it and the more I've got to know my voice in the limitations of it. The more I'm like it isn't just about writing a malady. It's about writing a melody that I can make work and we'll work with my voice. So now it's it is very much more about i. kind of know what this melody is going to sound like when I sing it and is that going to work or not, and if not, I've got to find another melody that is it's a fitting melody with delimitations of my voice or that kind of. Particular my voice. Well, it's working. It's. Back so and I was GONNA say like in your music, all the elements, there's kind of no chink in the army. Every seems really proficient at all of the songwriting producing playing all the instruments is remarkable. It's amazing. But do you feel that there are limitations that you're pushing up against in your own? Abilities help you or hinder you or whatever. Well, it's funny because I kind of feel the opposite about my individual elements like I feel like none of them. Amazing on their own but all put together. They make something unique gates like it's like a house of cards. Like, I, feel like, just me singing on someone song wouldn't be very special. Just me playing guitar in a band wouldn't be very bit to some reason. It all comes to get maybe it's something to do with the fact that it's the same person doing it. I believe in of like the strength of a singular vision. In the way, the bands that work. Well, they're all kind of in the same heads but of connected and when you hear someone's music with I've applied that vision to every todd of it. Then it has this kind of like cohesiveness that is locked like stevie wonder. Well. That's a really good description of music I think it has totally that as that character but then if I think about the individual elements like here a little bass riff or something like that. So Kevin. Wow thanks but I think you're right that the fact that each part of the song has your characteristic in it makes it a really coherent thing that maybe that's the same for people were Solo. That's something. So then a difference between us is that you've done a bunch of collaboration in the last few years and I never do any collaboration I basically work by myself and and you have just song people songs or help them right song or played an instrumental song the up. How does that work? You know when someone asked me to sing on this song? I feel like saying La. Do I say, but I'm not like Oh. Yeah Yeah. You don't want to work on this song the. Never. Never. WanNa do a vocal feature usually just sort of consult with myself that they want the time impala vocals rather than they want me. They want kind of like that don't want it to sound great. They just wanted to sound like technical. You know like that's What I subconsciously think. But yeah, I mean the whole thing collaborating for me is that it's sort of like I'm trying to find. Things that can do that. Aren't what I usually do. You know like someone from a completely different genre that I considered like learn and try something new? You know like the more different it is from what I usually do better. Usually it's kind of like a fantasy land. Where I'm not this one artist that has a sound and has a process it's like what if all the variables are changed but then obviously, it's the day it's always it's the real world. So. Does it, and does it make it more fun and last pressurized in easier to do in some way you know like, do you end up agonizing over it like you would tame impala record exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, it's something that you'll contributing to. Care about I want to be good. You know like the fantasy is that there's no pressure it can be anything it doesn't matter if it's shit. But of course, does matter. It matters just as much as any other piece of meat. That you do. You get asked to collaborate produce thing. Yeah. REMIXING is one of the most common things I get asked to do. And and production and stuff like that. You know movie soundtracks, those kinds of things. At, some point I just thought. Looking back at the music that I made. The remixes were the things that I was least happy with. And and also the things that I wanted to do partly because of that deadline problem, you know this like a deadline and you have to hand something in if I'm only seventy percent happy with it, I, still have to hand it in and and that was kind of the time that I had kids as well or are I your daughter and I just said you know what I think I'd just be happier if I just had a blanket like no, I'm not. I'm not well I'm so slow working I mean sure everybody feels that way but I I feel like I'm really slow working on my own stuff. And that's probably what makes me happiest and I kind of looking back at a most proud of. So it's going to do that. Absolutely. Yeah that's really that's really strong. That's really am. Disciplined because for me I'm like, ooh. I could say the same thing to myself and then someone had come awake letter and say, Hey, do you wanna this and I'll be like, okay yeah, I know but. Sometimes I feel like I'm just being stupidly adherent to a rule that you know. Yeah it goes both ways are you ever tempted to just sort of like give people songs like rata song for someone and getting them to sing over in the way that you don't think he'll vocal sound is the best ever. At the thing I i. think this is different between I to is that the thing that that I ended up with after having made album is made every day I make like two or three little sketches which don't have vocal melodies. They're just like a loop you know keyboard part drums, something else an end up with like hundreds and hundreds of those that's my process is just making those those this no pressure making one of those. Because if it's crap, it just goes in the garbage pile but then I ended up with a bunch of them that are like this something good about that. But it's never gonna I'm not gonNA finish it because it's not as good as the other things or it's doesn't fit with the other things on sometimes tempted to in another world or another context like I could give those to collaborator or somebody who wants to sing over something and It seems like super wasteful to made all his music and then literally just put on the trash, which is generally what happens but I am I right in thinking you write the number of songs that are on the album basically or close to it. You know like yet. As. Well, it's it's more just like I saw ideas, but I'll never come close to finishing a song that isn't definitely going to be released. Does that mean you're one of those people that you'll make tons of stuff and then select the best stuff the you want to release exactly that I let them sit for a while. So the ones I'm not super happy about don't get very far along it's not like I've got hundreds and hundreds of almost finished songs. They're like draft give ideas. But I've heard you talk about having a song kind of appear in your head almost fully formed, and if if anything I'm the polar opposite of that, I have to actually get my hands on instrument. Yeah and. Easy and productive, and I never like have kind of writer's block and those kind of things especially because sometimes I, get like you know melody my hat or something but then when I try and record it, it just turns into trash. Version isn't that sad when? Is. Definitely. You know sometimes i. feel like some melodies that just not meant to belong. To be a part of the real, well I. Think I think is like a Melody Autism Chords. Over baseline or something, and for some reason, it works in your head but you listen to it in real life and it's like suddenly it has to I, don't know. And I'm like Oh well I guess that song just is it has to live in my head. Again. It's like kind of this puzzle that we haven't figured out after doing this for a while they're still a mystery to it. You know it's not as simple as being like I know that's going to be I mean I think some people probably have that ability to just be like I know this is going to be something great I've just got to follow it through, but I like that yes, a little hard to track down stevie wonder public exactly who I was thinking of as well. This show is brought to you. By Patriot, who asked creators are you tired of being paid and clicks and likes social media and streaming platforms help people find your work but getting you paid is another story. With Patriotic, you can stop rolling the dice of ad revenue and per stream payouts and grow your creative career through the direct support of the people who care the most your fans. Since Patriarch is built for creators not advertisers. You'll skip the middleman and develop a sustainable income source by offering them recurring membership to your fans intern they'll get access to exclusive community premium content and a chance to become active participants in the work they love. The creative system is broken. So if you're a podcast, her video maker musician writer illustrator, a creative person of any time sign up on Patriot Dot com now that's Pat R. E. O. N. DOT COM and change the way your creativity is valued by building the steady income stream you deserve. Are you missing playing live shows. How do you feel about the fact that we both have kind of defacto lockdown albums give they came out like right before all of this? Yeah. Isn't that funny? I get I. Guess you've probably been getting messages from people being like you know year albums being something that I've listened to lots in this time and we'll they'll always associate it with that. This time was the a little bit scared of this album being an album that people forever associated with this time just because this is kind of like it's on time in the world and and everything is crazy. It's an emotional time for people but at the same time, it's kind of like it's also terrible and kind of like it's this nothingness Tom and I hope that it reminds people of something other than just getting stuck. Yeah. That's the only thing I'm worried about but the music, the you make, and probably the music that I make to some degree is such a kind of. World inside your head you know what? I mean. So that is feel like solemin making music for me is an escape into something unreal as well, and so I imagine that our music has done that in the time for that's very true. That's looking at I. I mean how we don't have any choice in it you know the other thing it's just has. Yeah and Yeah I mean, obviously I'm missing playing live. It's funny I. Didn't I didn't even register until just recently that we've that we're not playing in obviously that did but it's like try to be kind of glass half full about about everything and given the people like you and I. We can still do what we do. And especially because we're kind of self sufficient recording, we can still do a large part of what we love to do as though nothing ever changed and for that reason were extremely privileged. Oh, for sure and so I kind of feel I kind of feel bad about complaining that we can't do the other thing we love doing which is. Totally Fair. But yeah, it suddenly just hit me the other day. Oh, yeah, we're not. I'm not doing that thing about love doing. You know I got so. Caught up in the pandemonium in the kind of. Craziness of coronavirus vars kicking in that I forgot that we just started this or that we weren't really we played three shows really. Yeah. Yeah. We we would just about this big kind of like North American. Yeah and the plug pulled after third show. How about you had you started doing we were in a we've never done this before full. Production kind of warehouse. Our first date was I duNNo March, thirteenth, and fourteenth or something like that and and we were having this kind of You know I don't have a manager I don't have like a lot of like infrastructure around me. So literally me the guys in the band are lighting engineer engineering, our sound engineer sitting there being like. What what we do you know what happens we're getting on a flight. Tomorrow at nine am but things are just increasingly going crazy every day shows are still UK was a bit ahead of some parts that we were starting in Canada and there weren't that many cases in Canada and looking back I think we were. So in this weird denial, which I guess everybody was to some degree thinking that we were just going to I mean, yeah. It gradually dawned on us and it was literally the F- eight pm the night before we were supposed to catch a flight the next morning I was like, okay everybody we're not going anywhere you know. And isn't that funny? How how much it changed every day every day was like you know instead of grew in intensity. No one knew what was GonNa Happen Twenty four hours from now you know what? State the world was GONNA. Yeah exactly I think we can be forgiven for being so naive because this thing that was changing so fast yeah, and and you know seemed unreal all the things that have developed since then yeah to change chop a little bit just stop people might want to hear about US meeting the first time. Remember when that was was that in New Zealand? Yes. Okay, so was that because I need that we met then I didn't know if we'd met at a festival or something before that. I don't think yet the. Festival called Kello home. That's IT Campbell. So cool. It was in the middle of nowhere in New Zealand in Zule or like a holiday camp or something. Yeah. Yeah. It was really free form compared to most music festivals like there wasn't even A. Fence, around it or people just if they'd come that far that they want. To be there and yeah and we played in the bottom of a swimming pool or something. Yeah. I remember you. You're just hanging out I. Think I did you play there or when I met you you're just hanging. was just say I don't know if I was playing on I. Think I was playing in Pont my friends. Okay. Yeah. That's what I was playing drums for them. Which I now realize that I was playing at the time but I could easily have just been. They're just hanging out with them. We were with care and fourteen maybe he knew somebody new and you're just like hanging out on the grass and then I remember you had a laptop and headphones and you're working on stuff for loner as my guess and you played me would have been. Nothing that has happened. You just gave me like check this out I was like Holy Shit like. That moment I always stuck with me I must have been a lot more brash back then because I don't know how I got the courage to play you. Unrelated stuff. Stuff that I was wondering maybe you, we're playing it to other people and I was like, can I have you know? Can I have a list it anyway yeah. Not Festival was. So it was a kind of festival utopia yet. There's a few of those. Things around straight where it's Kinda just like if you know you're not counting. Things I guess because. Of that night show that don't that aren't last very right. I like the grow their the grow too big to be. What they started all say, Oh, we had a good couple of doing it and light to stop doing it. You know. which is, which is kind of romantic I? Guess. Yeah. Do you ever miss playing scrappy weird gigs absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, like just bus of the way it's naturally evolved. In such a big operation. Now, the timing Polish are kind of just we just kind of grew into that role of okay we're GONNA. For one festival one time we just we got creative design team we got like the whole thing. Weeks of pre production stuff and then for some reason and then just. Sort of turned into that being the way we do it now should lower. Yeah. I was just thinking of the die like God i Miss Playing Small sweaty shows. where? Everything is so uncontrolled. It's like the big a yoga as a live act. The more everything is controlled like temperatures control the sound is controlled. Just so far from the front of how speakers that you have your own little personal mix and it's completely controllable but. I miss just sort of not knowing what's going to happen not knowing that the place is going to look like it's going to sound. Yeah Yeah. We're obviously on playing shows on a smaller scale but still it's like if if this place doesn't have the kind of lighting and video back that we need, we can't do a show there you know and sometimes. That means that the show is always as we kind of want it to be but I thinking back about our early days doing shows some of those places that we you know if we didn't know what we were getting into, we probably would have been like this isn't a good idea but then they ended up being so fun and weird and scrappy and memorable, and you know Matt people through those kind of experiences instead of one of the things that I was. So inspired by when I when I was seeing that you guys live those time because it was kind of like every couple of years I think we kind of like Cross Pas and festivals law and always drunk me house of inventive you were with the stage layout and how you did it and. Facing each other much of still do it. Seemed like you. Just using the platform of the stage to kind of do it your own way Yeah difficult to describe but. I'm glad to hear you say that because you we still set up our own gear before of festival performance. And I'm like I'm aware that kind of sends a message you know. that. People are like this. These guys doing this kind of weird diy way. They're all huddled in the middle and the that came about in the funniest way we you know we we were playing small stages and we wanted to be close to we had to be close to one another and and then we'd show up at a festival and there'd be a big stage we will be like, yeah. But there's a cable running for me to. Him. So I can't be any further away. We'd we'd end up on a big stage being like, is this a bit stupid like huddled in the middle but then let's just embrace sat tight then also I do think sometimes the that kind of attitude shuts me down from you know you've yeah I've seen you play in different environments and the show is so incredible and obviously requires so much work and as such big production but is amazing and. If I'm just being like we've got to. Stick to this weird setup that we're all together that close off possibilities of making it something. Really. Cool. Yeah like net now that you've got this huge kaleidoscopic spaceship landing stage show recently anyway do you enjoy playing those shows because you're like man this I mean I've had those moments even with our show when I'm like this is insane looking around you know like the amount of flashing lights and things. It adds to my enjoyment of it and I can only imagine makes people enjoy the show? Yes. So yeah, I I, do love I mean I am kind of like resigned to. The fact that that's kind of how it is. Now a do often get frustrated. At how kind of rigid the process can become things happen a lot less spontaneously like just in the production of A. For example, it's really difficult to add a song. I just say you wanted to in the middle of a to. Play this song tonight the production manager will go like, whoa, hang on, hang on their sunny. We haven't. We haven't striped time code. And say to these various departments that control of it. The like things are connected in ways of technology I don't even understand. In that way, it can become a little bit. It's not as organic. But it's it's something I've kind of just realized after work with you know because that's the only way that it can be like as momentous as it is your guest I am always kind of to find ways to buck the system and kind of like. Even that big and even though we've got all this stuff, we can still do it our One of the most wonderful things outside of Tame Impala the, music itself. I don't know if you feel this but I feel like the scale of its popularity and how culturally ubiquitous it's become is somehow like unlikely and There are no other bands like you at that scale like headlining festivals, selling out Arenas and stadiums. Because, it doesn't fit into some like mode or whatever show and I mean on some smaller level I feel the same whenever we step out on a big stage on stage I'm like it's so cool that we're playing this weird music to this many people. Do you feel that? Are you proud of that? Do I mean I can't explain it? It's funny because I get asked that a lot like. Yeah. How do you explain it? Right. Not The is a backhanded compliment, but it's always like I don't know. I honestly don't know sometimes I feel like I'm getting close to understanding understanding why people like time in polymer at the same time I'm like if I don I don't understand why people like podcast maybe that's a good thing you know. Because I'll exploited it does seem like a bit of a back I the way I look at as it's kind of like I, look at some bands of some music and some operations when you see that kind of management everything's so like. By the book straight ahead it's a business kind of thing, and then I see other people I'm like you're a Weirdo like I'm a Weirdo you know and it's just so nice to see those things. Thriving makes me really. Happy for an and you know you meet people who are. There are loads of people who are genuinely fans of music that's weird and interesting and does all sorts of things. So it's not surprising in that sense, but it's just like right on I'm so glad that. Is, possible yeah anyway. We talked about nothing else I wanNA talk to you about I want to I'm not GonNa ask you anything. I'm just going to tell you. I want to tell you about how I heard your music. Didn't ask no I do I do want to know that it was funny because like leading up to this to this thing we're doing realize I thought about this moment since it happened but I was kind of house body and it was caucus mole kind of kind of gathering just like. Drinking. Smoking. Kaufhaus body. And I just had one of those moments where you know when you like when you he is something in you just like everyone shut the fuck up what is that? Like. You get you get a little bit. Selfish because you like everyone shut up. Someone tell me what that is. You know usually I'm not like that I'm not as rude but I still remember someone had little boombox and they'll playing melody. And I just remember sitting next door and made them repeat it. And I was asking my friend. Nick. I was like who is this I? Remember loving it because it reminded me of little bit of like. Who Love because it has that snare. Debate with its second leading on the snare. Which is a I love it. It always gets me. But yeah, that was it. Three Kids I. Got The and everything. I'm so happy to have been one of those moments for sure and. Listening to Dunya and loads when I was making that Oh for sure. Yeah. Have you seen them live? Yeah. I finally saw them live. Yeah. A little while ago it took me a long time. Yeah. I just remember thinking like, oh I loved him yen but I'll never hear something modern. That kind of has that kind of affect on me and. That's why I was kind of like taken aback, hood melody and all the door because it had that like. That really beautiful kaleidoscopic melody and kind of turn -ality. But you could tell it was electric. That's what Boomerang and it was like Oh, that's always been a sort of musical goal for me is like something that. So kind of like something organic and human sounding. But in this kind of electronic realm and I feel like you've always nailed that elusive thing you know it's like it's electric and repetitive and yeah electric but it has this but it's so overwhelmingly human. Well, thank you you surreal. I, think that just comes about through happens like trying to make zombies album, you know I instead of being in. Abbey road. Studios I had like a crappy laptop a pile of records that I'd sample like to notes of a flute off of and then try and put it in place and If anything went you know I'm I'm really proud of the album Andorra and but if anything when I look back at it, that's my only criticism Oh I was like trying so hard to make something the captured those kinds of sixties, early seventies, psychedelic records but I, love that about it that I was trying to do that but I failed and that's kind of why it was. Sort of maybe sort of interesting you know what I mean. For something and I missed and the thing the miss was actually more interesting than if I'd actually being capable of doing the thing properly I know exactly what you're talking about. It's funny. It's funny that isn't it? Yeah. There are so many examples of that in history musically list of people trying to sound like something you Gary Numan he was kind of like a punk rock right and he was trying to make dance music or something I. WanNa Hood was. Outcast when he made. He was trying to make it sound like the hives I. Don't know if that's true. I. Don't like the song. That song is just like is such an anomaly. Yeah. There's no other song in the world like. Yeah, there's never has its own. Realm Music ECON even anyway. But so apparently he he'd been watching the hives of vegetables and stuff. Like. It kind of garage rock they. Can almost always here. Yeah but then it's so it's veered away from that. Yeah and I think that's a really good argument to me for like sometimes particularly in certain strains of dance music club music but also other types of music there's this real kind of purity or pure is. That people are like, no, you cannot. You know it has to be this thing and you can kind of bring in other disparate influences and it's seen as a kind of watering down or. You know weakening of something to have a kind of mishmash of things which I mean I. Don't know I've just always been drawn to mishmash of things. Those are the music that I like the most where they're coming on the boundary between. This is not quite this and it's not quite that. And I I just think that's how music. Yeah. Like you say there are so many examples of in music history that's kind of how music works like people trying to do one thing not having the same skills or context or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It told me a long time to get this idea of types of music sounding authentic always loved dance music an electronic music. But I, because I grew up in the kind of like quote Unquote Rock Weld I always felt like if I made dance music, it would sound authentic and. With other things to iron billion. Even like Psych Rock in west of making soccer I thought I wasn't being authentic. took me a long time to get over that kind of like paranoia like that kind of concept because obviously it's Bush Yeah. But I've definitely have myself. Yeah. That same feeling do you know this album by this Guy Charron Jeet Singh called Ten ragas to a disco beat. What's it called I forget how many ragas sounds great sounds like it's. Unbelievable is this guy in he was just like a soundtrack composer in India and he made an album with like all the role and stuff like a three, zero, three drum machine and I don't know maybe a June or something and. He was just playing Ragas. But with an acid base line in Germany scene and he just totally accidentally invented. House Music and techno. Independently. Know I don't know kind of record record collector. He kind of person when I heard that I was like whole and obviously it sounds very different because the scales are different and Cetera. I love those anomalies. kind of also goes to what we were talking about. Before when I making music I'm always thinking that if people listened to at all or if it's like still around in a few years at all, it'll be viewed as a kind of well, there was this Weirdo doing this kind of like half this half that kind of thing. That's very much in my mindset because all a lot of the music that I love are those kind of weird anomaly outsider ash kind of things I I don't know. Do. You ever think about your music being apprec- added retrospectively like I say that because a friend of mine makes music and likes to think of it as being listened to in thirty, he likes to think of it as an album someone finds in some dusty old records door and dirty writes more. So than than people listening to it right now, there's something about that discovering it after a long time that does it for him. That's a cool thing about it actually Yeah. I mean, it's it's funny thing and it plays into another thought that I have the world is full of music obviously never more. So the thought of making music adding something to that is this crazy like act of. Ego. EGOMANIA, but you have to kind of drink yourself into this mindset that like what we're GonNa do we're going to sit down and do something worthwhile even though there have already been like a hundred million songs written in the world or you know it's funny I think about that and I think it's some kind of a trick like a self-deception you know that allows me to sit down and think. I'm going to write the best song in the world today it's obviously not going to happen but if you don't think that you'd never do it. You know you never try absolutely I'm to think that a certain amount of ego is vital in the creative process the something about it and it sounds really bad. But you know there's something about the feeling of. An inherent self-importance you know, I don't know I don't know. Well I. Wonder if you have the same kind of feeling because it sounds to me like you grew up in CNN Perth. Yes. That reminds me of the town that I grew up in. Do you have any friends who you're like aw friend makes such. Amazing. Music is so creative and interesting. If only liked, they'd finish that song that they played me that was half finished. It would be so great and everybody would love it and stuff like that and. And I know so many people like that You know they they doing more interesting things than I was, but I was so desperate to be doing exactly what we're doing right now like playing gigs around the world and having people listen to my music that just was this crazy drive just to kind of have this imagined thing of quote unquote being a musician was one of the things driving me to to keep doing stuff and I guess that's some kind of. You know ambition or ego or whatever. I don't know Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah. That too. Isn't that funny like how important ambition is in that sense but neither of US probably would think of ourselves as ambitious people like like somebody who's goes into business or you know what I mean it's weird music. It's a very weird thing. So yeah, it's a funny thing too I. I definitely have that distorted fantasy that that I'm going to Rut like the greatest pups on the world. You know it sounds the. Cheapest thing out loud and obviously not completely true. But it's like, yeah, I don't know if it's we'd well, you've written some pretty damn good pops on so. Yeah. Glad you are operating under that assumption because it's It's working pretty well. Anyway I. Yeah. I'm really glad I. Don't know about you. I've kind of stopped doing all press and stuff and we the Times that we've met in the past it's been like you know pretty short thing at a festival or whatever, and I've always thought a great to get to like not that this is exactly hang out but the we'd get to. Hang out and talk more so. Close as we'll get for a look for. Awhile For Awhile and I hope we do get to cross paths. In person before too long. Yeah. Absolutely. Man. It's been really nice to talk Yeah Dude I've Got Tate up I've been thinking about it allow. Me To. It's it's allowed me to I mean obviously I've listened to your music loads and love it. But it also I was like I'm going to go back and listen to all in a really intensive way too which was have enjoyed loads. For always to listen to. Music. Thanks. Thing I've on the two times have been drawn up driven down South I've had Caribou on the whole time Nice. Cool? Wicked Joe Nice to talk to you Kevin Yeah you so. Dan Snaith Aka Caribou Kevin Parker Aka Tame Impala. Thank you so much for joining us here on the talk house podcast. I WanNa take a quick moment to give a huge shout out to the TAME IMPALA SUB Reddit. You guys grabbed a screen shot of my instagram and were so enthusiastic about this talk coming down the pipe blind came and thanks again for sending me that it was so nice to get to chat with a few you guys. Online can never keep anything away from the fans. Hey, man I love it listeners. If you enjoyed this week's show, we highly recommend checking out past episodes like the Pitchfork Fest doubleheader with Fleet Foxes Robin. Peck. Mold with Milford Jagna and Blood Orange Rafael Sadique, and be sure to get the latest of Talk House on facebook twitter and instagram. That's at Talk House. You can also follow me and throw my teasers into your separate I'm at Elliot Einhorn. Are Researcher for today's show is re Sagan's and our producer extraordinaire is Mark Yoshizumi Everyone you heard on stays episode recorded themselves at home. The TACOS podcast theme song was composed and performed by the range till next week I'm Eliane Horn I'm Keenan Kush. And Tame Caribou.

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137: Hyde Yo Ambassador

The 45th

1:08:53 hr | 9 months ago

137: Hyde Yo Ambassador

"This means that Donald Trump will be the forty fifth president of the United States. This is your life now. This is our election now. This is us this is our country. It's real hi and welcome back to the forty fifth. This is Robbie and this week I am joined with two of our Almost calls at this point but right very regular contributors. All of our listeners are very familiar with these two gentlemen and I'm excited. I haven't been in the same show with them in a while but which Ali the and Suraj Hashmi how are you guys. I'm rocking my minivan. People the forty fifth community the Muslims have taken over the forty fifth. Today Susan is absent Shakira law is in full effect. But a happy new year to both of you I don't think we've spoken in the New Year. I mean I've seen watch. CNN CNN was it after the New Year yeah and it was actually a Muslim takeover of CNN. Too was a hawk was there too and my baby is running. It's I mean I mean basically that that tweet that trump's out recently with Schumer in a Turban Pelosi and hit job is actually accurate. We are taking over everything except place the Iranian it's like with puck sunny flex. So is tweeting in Farsi. I mean it's it's it's happening happening. It was a very long convoluted conspiracy. Take this point but we're slowly inching that way but I do want to say before we get into. There's a lot to talk about and you know what's so crazy wash because because there's so much talk about. I literally forgot about that tweet. I forgot about the turbine tweet. Unbelievable all of that should be big big news but anyway I wanNA start off by saying we did start off the new year with Well other than almost getting two or three with some good news because Your Princess Warrior. Sabiha began the New Year by being cancer free. Congratulations to you and your family. Thank you so much yes As of last week she rang the bell. And for those of you who don't know Ringing the bell signifies that you're for cancer free so she was diagnosed with stage four cancer for a baby. That's a one percent chance of getting a pedal blessed Oma and she had a full liver transplant and as as of now cancer. Free the hairs coming back the eyelashes or back or colors. Oh she's devouring to entire big mega strips of reese's reese's pieces every day so you know what she needs her strength. Those cheeks need to be maintained. She's adorable and so we're so happy for you and You know continue to update update us and let us know how else we support you guys. It's been a harrowing year to Twenty nineteen was tough so however we can support you let us now and Suraj. What are you up to lately? I'm usually getting in trouble From my cancel culture tweets and to give you a long story short our ranking thing going what is making every day thing ever so I have a daily power ranking of people who need their phones taken in a way and essentially what I do and I obviously I make twitter. I make the list quite a bit And is usually based on on bad takes or bad tweets or sometimes just cringe-worthy tweets so how does trump dominate that. Every single day gets on their I. He has a higher standard of me like he has to do something. That's way over the top even for him Can make make like number one. I'm trying to remember the last time I put them at number one but I think it was Man It was something around around around the New Year. I don't think it had to do with Iran in fact After the air strike that killed. Salamone I actually put I- Atallah come a at number one because he was trying to tweet through it like nothing had happened and at that juncture. Like you take that phone on the way like between bold move that's bold new details and But I've had a lot of the feedback from a and It's kind of a tool to just call up people's B S and just keep moving. Some people actually take it really well. Some others don't but you know it's Suraj go to compliment. Someone just said he's an excellent troll. He's pretty good at it. Yeah we enjoy my brother. Rosie tells me that quite a bit it was actually in your I was GonNa say probably Russi all right all right so let thankfully we haven't made although at this point. I wonder if it's gotten gotten so popular. People actually want to make that list but it sounds like it's completely subjective. It's completely on you. I got people on the left and right who wants to make the list and for that list so all right you know if you guys tweet some some really crazy stuff. I'll get John. They're kinda cringe. He is not. I mean I because there's no good take on this but so let's get right into it. Let's start with what went down last night. which was the last Democrat debate before the primaries and leading into this is a big? Was this Bernie Warren beef. That just came out of nowhere a couple of days ago. We talk about a little bit and is that the story that got you on Fox. Oh no no no it. Was Your Vince Vaughn outrage. They got you on Fox Habibie right we can talk about that. We can talk about that later. But would Gordian Yeah Interestingly enough I think so Bernie is taking an interesting approach to this because Hawes Elia flat out denial the way the moderate It was a believe as atty Phillip who phrased the question at Sanders that he not basically asking whether the situation of of this December twenty eight team meeting between Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders and Bernie allegedly making the comment that a woman cannot win the presidency Instead of just asking basically sort of neutral question it was more of a leading question and I actually have it right here She said Senator Sanders CNN reported. Yesterday and senator warned confirmed in a statement that in two thousand eighteen. You told her that you did not believe that a woman could when the election why did you say that. So as she's operating on the presumption that he one hundred percent said it without leaving any room for doubt and the Sanders campaign is now hitting back at CNN for their how their moderators had handled that. Yeah and now you're seeing a bunch sanders supporters TRYING TO QUOTE UNQUOTE CANCEL CNN for basically being You Know Anti Bernie being More of like a Republican plant and and in propagating GOP talking points. And it's I mean it's all sort of fascinating and honestly fleet the biggest Winners out of that are the people who are not involved in that. Be So Biden Buddha Judge Clothes Shar in style. Just end up looking better as a result. Well you know it's interesting that you caught the way she phrased it to to Sanders. I was a little more taken aback at. How does she then pivoted to Elizabeth Warren completely ignoring what Sanders said Santa's outright denied? He said No. It just didn't happen and then she says well. How did you feel when he said the two completely ignoring his denial not asking her to clarify whether or not it was said but basically again just under the assumption that it was said and Elizabeth? Warren I think did kind of get the maybe the only really great line of the night so let's listen about Senator Sanders. Sanders told you a woman could not win. The election disagreed. Bernie is my friend and I am not here to try to fight with Bernie but look this question sheet about whether or not a woman can be president has been raised. And it's time for us to attack it head on and I think the best way to talk about who can win is by looking at people's winning record so can woman beat Donald Trump. Look at the men on the stage collectively. They have lost ten elections. The only people on this stage who have won every single election that they've been in are the women. Amy Okay I want to step back. A little bit about is even a story. Why what do you think are we seeing takes all over over the plays you know that this is to disrupt Bernie this ninety nine Ya story? This is bullshit we are distracting. We are helping trump. What's your take on this? I thought it was inevitable. I remember I was on a Sunday talk show and I predicted that there would be these blows. Because let's let's remember that reports came out that some from Bernie's Ernie's Campaign were telling voters that Warren is unelectable because she only appeals to the highly educated voters and she's not going to appeal talk you know the quote Unquote Rustbelt stereotypes. So as a result of that which stung warn because responded to that you could tell that she probably had this back pocket and and when she unleashed it I think he you know Bernie Sanders defendant himself well because as I have tweeted he I think he probably did say that but he probably set it in the the context of what so many people have said that they assume that a person of color or woman cannot win over the rust belt at the same time he probably also is not sexist and probably also also has you know Any has excuse me support. Weren The way she pivoted though I thought it was a very smart pivot. She came very prepared. And she you basically used it to bust this electability narrative or Miss Wide Open right and then that was the viral moment. And then she brought an Amy Klobuchar as I occur. Fellow a female politician ally and said listen and I thought that was very. He's very smart. Move so Suraj is not necessarily incorrect. That it could have benefited. The the Buddha is by also think it gave worn a lot of momentum especially considering I predict that women will be a major force in this election number one at at the same time as Rajini guys have mentioned if you've been following social media for the last two days some of these online Bernie supporters have trended never worn and and they've done these snake Emoji in reminds me kind of twenty sixteen when some of these people like the most toxic absolutist and they remind me a lot of like the Maga- supporters The hope is that they're a minority. And I believe in twenty twenty. There's enough appetite From Democrats just to get trump out that they will suck it up and unite and learn from the mistakes of two thousand sixteen. Where if you remember people voted for Stein and Johnson or just sat Out But I think this is going to brew within some small circles I think however warning sanders this this we can come come on quash it and say something like Mike. Whoever the nominee is I'll support them but Warren was pissed there aside either and you just look at the body language? She was pissed during Bernie's entire statement. Because I believe she says to me I completely agree. She did the smart thing she said. I'M GONNA leave. The he said she said alone. Forget that let's get to. The heart of the matter can a woman and be elected and so she elevated the conversation so it did give a platform to address that issue ahead on having some thought. It was interesting at the end of the night. I mean Bernie Bernie is not giving an inch on this. He's not saying that. Maybe I said something that she misconstrue which I think is a mistake on his part but it also is very very Bernie like I mean. It's one of the things about him. That's always kind of a little bothersome to me is that he's just kind of comes across as a very uncompromising cranky person and I think Elizabeth Warren's language in response to this has been more compromising. She's like he's my friend. You know like her statement confirming you know the initial reports words. I thought was fairly reasonable. The way she wanted the debate stage was I thought. Also you know not as harsh as Bernie muted and then in the night. She walked over to him to I. I don't know what but he's A. He then turned around walked away. I do believe she could have. It probably did say in two thousand eighteen. I don't think a woman can win. Because we're in twenty you know and I've heard women say this. I want to vote for I want to for Harris only went for kluber chart. But I don't know about these whites in the rust belt this point so he could have actually set that totally and not not have made it as a sexist from I completely agree with you and I. I think that's probably where the truth is somewhere in the middle of all of this and I. I don't know who benefits but I am saddened to see the a AH worn hashtag trending which I I don't think it's a lot of Bernie supporters. I think what's happening is that you have bought S- trolls and and Russian folk the people jumping on it. I really do believe that. I think it's a combination Of all those how. How does spirituality inform activism the majority of the world self identifies as religious or spiritual and yet many discussions of politics culture an an advocacy are devoid of a spiritual framework? While there's a new podcast call spirited and it's changing that by speaking with leaders and activists from diverse backgrounds around about how spirituality informs their practice and advocacy host doctors Cimarron Jeet Singh speaks with influential leaders such as Congresswoman Ilhan Omer Mer Comedian Hari Kondabolu Serene Jones of President of the Union theological seminary and yours truly yet. I got a chance to be on spirited to check it out the the guests on spirited discuss how their philosophy and spiritual teachings inform their modern day activism in an increasingly polarized world spirited taps into the wisdom stomach dynamic spiritual thinkers practitioners and teachers. Listen and subscribe to spirited wherever you listen to podcasts. Yeah here is my take on it because I don't really I wouldn't uncalled myself. Someone who is left of center. I probably a little bit more southern nowadays than anything but looking at sort of the ten ten thousand foot luck view of this particular squabble between Sanders and warn is you know there then You know comparisons to the Hashtag metoo movement in the sense that if Warren said it why should we be accusing her of lying of seen. Those takes. But I've also seen and just interestingly enough with sanders not giving an inch to the outrage mob. Sort of it's it's sort of like that whole Cancelled culture narrative that happens when Somebody did something. And they're not in many ways trump. Does this a lot. He does not give the outrage mob a single inch and just let it persist until it fades out and I think sanders is sorta doing a similar move in which he just flatly denies that he ever Said Anything Offensive to Elizabeth Warren with the idea Adia that he is in the right she is in the wrong and using that to sort of launch himself to you know either. Win Iowa caucuses or win the New Hampshire primary. Or what have you right now does not the nonaggression pact. That existed between Warrenton in Sanders was going to erode either way and I think the way I think the reason Bernie Sanders is so mad about how this is all kind of Ben Handling and how this has been reported as I think deep inside Bernie's campaign they believe Elizabeth Warren planted that story into a To CNN that she had this meeting with with Bernie and Bernie said that he doesn't believe a woman could win the presidency and that was a move to try to essentially make herself look like the victim. And if you've been following politics for quite a while you know that when people tend to quote sources close to say like either the president or if it's sources close to say XYZ person is usually the person who there's its users say like the President or say like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. Who's actually saying this? As opposed to like a source close to it up person. But isn't that politics. Is that what we should explain. You should expect an campaign. I mean this is how it's going to happen. I think Bernie was. He had the idea that if there was ever going to be a significant Spat between him and warned. It would be over policy and not something like sexism. MM or misogyny. Something that makes his that undercuts at his message of trying to basically combat against those things response. That's right because it's only happened on over the weekend once. Those reports were confirmed that people from the burning campaign were telling Voters who were leaning towards the one that there's no way that she would be electable right and I think that really stung warned. She responded to him And then exactly Surat said all of a sudden sources sources said which means it was probably the worst campaign and I said before. She probably had this in her back pocket for a while because no one wants to be number two guys at the end of the day. Everyone's getting to be the candidate and I just want to take it back to people who are so like Like worried about this. One positive is I'm old enough to remember two thousand eight. It was down to Obama versus Clinton and people kind of forget this because Clinton eventually became a supporter and secretary of state. But it was nasty as help especially if supernet idle rich ugly there was a time in which Hillary and I'll never forget this. She chastised Obama by saying. How dare you in in like saying in that way With respect to however he characterized her record. I don't exactly remember the exact point or critique or criticism he may hey but it was her holding a piece like a stack of papers you know or no card than saying how dare you Barack Obama how dare you. Yeah and they were both wearing flannel shirts and drinking beer and bowling with the Midwest whites to win over people. It was was. Yeah so that's why I want to tell. People is Warren Sanders at the end of day are smart. They're smart politicians Titians. They realized they have an alliance realize cater to the same base. They realize that the main things to get rid of trump and. I don't think that this is going to be bad. Big of the deals I do think they can men and women to the fence. I think like you said rob a response to the she could have really gone after she didn't I think she pivoted and you know let some of the hardliners Duke. It online whatever But I think at the end of the day they're both running gunning to be number one and they will align themselves themselves any other moments from the debate. That stuck out for you for for either one of you. I thought Buddha judge and Biden I think Biden play to strengthen the first half the debate A specific when it comes to policy he can in on the fact that he's like a veteran statesman and under the eight years of being BP for Obama uh-huh They did have the Iran nuclear and did that compare and contrast which I think they should have been much more of. I think it was a mistake that they delayed in critiquing trump and then contrasting but eventually it came out I think Buddha ditch also is able to lean on the fact that you know his quote unquote military experience on the leadership experience. That went well for them in the first half. Have I think warrant does Oh count foreign policy. But it's not her strength he's okay I I did think the turning point that debates was the fifty minute marker so so when this Bernie Warren clash kind of came to a head and then that gave her the fuel to take off or the second half especially as we moved away from foreign foreign policy. I think she really did take off Koba Jars consistently solid my one critique were third was actually competent converter previous performances. I thought she lost steam in the second. Half and and as a closer was a little bit weak I thought Biden's closer was really strong. The problem with him as he can sustain it ever in a debate. He just can't have an even debate and he looked down his paper. And then finally with star I wish was Booker or Yang even instead of star. I don't think he's as bad as people think about but You will strong on climate change. I'll give him that but I think most people after after yesterday's most people kind of realize it's going to be done to Biden my biggest takeaway away from it was Biden defending himself against a lot of these accusations with respect to Ukraine and his son hunter and there was one particular were that he used to sort of. I think it benefits him. More to voters who are sympathetic to on on on this issue and that's that he used the word my surviving son and how they were going after him because obviously alludes to His son Beau Biden. Who passed away in twenty sixteen from brain cancer and it's Honestly political messaging. It's very very good tactic to use because it does remind people that Joe Biden has loved despite being a politician for several well decades. He's had a very hard personal life. through loss of his first wife loss of his son and It's and even having a believe even having I can recall he's had cancer himself But I mean he certainly had his own health issues and health scares And I think that's something that woods resonate well with caucus goers in Iowa and hands might help him put put him over the edge. I know he's been pulling around Fourth of course Paul's nowadays just sort of between those four candidates San. There's Warren Buddha judge and Biden kind of fluctuating. Quite a bit. Say Real Quick Suraj. Remind me of a tweet That highlights also went biden. Goes those personal. He's at a strongest and he did that personal narrative for the childcare. Answer which which really you know which is just it's it? It just works because because politics is personal and narratives work And so that might be enough. I think people I think people great by curve. We all do But that's just politics politics and I think whenever he does go personal. There's just a well of sympathy for him And so especially on the childcare answer and also he deflected the attacks that he knew. We're GONNA come to him in the beginning on his vote for the Iraq war and actually apologized for before sanders could rip into if you guys mentioned if you guys. I don't know if you guys noticed that those are smart movie didn't in the beginning. Yeah yeah well. I watched the post debate analysis for a couple of hours. I went back and forth between CNN and MSNBC. It seemed like a lot of commentators weren't too excited about the debate last night although at this point and my exactly sure what it is. They're expecting I thought it was a fairly well. Moderate debate but of course there's an impact when you don't have certain the voices involved. I mean there was a bit. You know immigration criminal justice and there were issues that were not touched and there are some issues that I wonder wonders. Like you know when it comes to Medicare when it comes to climate change. I feel like we've had these questions and answers repeatedly repeatedly every single debate. I don't know what changes between debate debate that they have to keep raising this instead of focusing on what has not has remained unanswered. Or what is kind of changing in in the scene in the domestic and and foreign policy seen anyhow as that was happening trump was having a rally trump wanted to deflect from the entire debate Instead of staying home and fuming about it wasn't Minnesota. Is that where he was Milwaukee. Wisconsin Milwaukee I just WANNA play a clip because I feel like I'm allows about three or four rallies. This is an issue. Trump is really focusing on but also approving new dishwashers washes. That gives you more water so you can actually wash and rinse your dishes without having to do it. Ten Times or served nine ten. Okay I just I need to know. Does anybody anybody understand the origin of this when to start wise is happening. wisey obsessed with dishwashers and toilets and sinks and water. What is happening? I think he had one terrible experience Oval Office were perhaps with an old thing an old toilet like Obama and he just has to like in the fact in your he's Germaphobe also right and So he there's probably like this one sinister a toilet put in by the deep state and the Jews dishwashers. This is the second time he's has raised. That dishwashers take ten. Tries to what Suraj is or something. We don't know what's happening here. I think this is a kind of speaks to the level of burdensome regulation that he feels the Obama Administration put forward with respect to energy efficiency. And you know whether it's water pressure or The amount of water used to say clean dishes or clean clothes or take a shower There there has been I think more so on the state level. Same places like California where water uses restricted because of drought he s. Yeah Yeah I mean there's that but I mean I think I'm not a hundred percent. Sure where he's getting this particular idea that that It's he should be railing against all of these different appliances or or household items. I think think it's one of those things where he's he could be rolling. I'm not a hundred percent sure But I think it does for at least trump supporters I think it would remind them of all the burdensome regulation. They feel President Obama in his administration of Implement would only agree with you. I would only agree with you. If anything he's saying is is actually accurate. It does not take two or three flushes of a toilet or ten times. None of us are experiencing that come on none of those regulations impact as an away. If my dishwasher's more fishes was using less water I don't even know that because the end of the day the dishes are clean when I'm done it's running. I unfortunately too smart and his projecting his own intelligence onto trump trump with trump look. Trump is very predictable. Everything for trump is personal. Everything right is is a tax on wind and windmills spaced. On like this grievance he had a personal grievance head when he was a businessman right it this is I can. I'm so so confident that perhaps he tried to flush a toilet. It didn't work so pissed off about it that he can't get over it and now he uses is a two project and make another excuse as everything is wrong and has to blame. Obama for just cannot get over. He can't get over personal slights people. Oh it's a it's like I really admire Sarah's and I'm not even GonNa say it's a stretch I just feel like it's A. It's a very admirable generous. It's generally very generous like because because maybe that's how suraj would take it. If that happened to him I think the immediate reaction to almost everything trump says is almost as like just outrage. And I'm just trying to get past outrage actual it's actual confusion for. I'm not outraged. I'm I'm genuinely confused. I don't understand. And what does he think it's going to play on the base. I mean every time he makes us remarks marks gets a little bit of a tittering from the audience. It's not like he gets confused. His audience is I mean. He's speaking to Confused to Milwaukee Ocoee Wisconsin. which you know it's a battleground state and they now have a democratic governor and if they start feeling feeling a certain way about how things are currently in their respective homes Maybe they'll think. Hey let's my my I'm only buying. Led Lights instead of like these soft lights. That might take a little bit more wattage Cheaper and you know. It's taking three or four flushes to flush the toilet which it may or may not happen. I have no idea because it may not know doesn't happen to me. It's it's not a thing I'm just saying. This is probably what he's saying is because he thinks his base will just eat it. This is old man yells at cloud. Goldman thank you know. He's like Suraj incorrect. That trump is not a complete buffoon. East he has the red meat for his base. I agree that's right and this is more red meat. How about having a marriage of these ideas? What a marriage the idea as his toilet one flush he's like this is about regulations and he's boiling together Gavin? And I didn't mention this I would say that it's also about Say Combating Say Democratic Efforts to say pass like something like the green new deal. It's their efforts on combating climate. Change in trying to remind people that government may not be the solution in combating climate change and that it should be the private sector that steps up to the plate and perhaps if only he would mention all of that. Okay you you would make a great spokesperson for trump acts. Like if you could explain things I am just trying to analyze him. I'm not saying I agree with him. All right okay. Here's what I want to know. Now is Vince Vaughn really cancelled or not. No I mean he you know everybody. Everybody knows he's been Libertar- a right leaning Libertarian. Since twenty sixteen where. He campaigned for rampal and him meeting with President. Trump is not a big deal. I mean During what the gloves in nineteen or twenty eighteen when some I. I can't recall which actor actress it was. It was when Vince. Vaughn wasn't obscene movie as Mel Gibson. I think it was a Hacksaw Ridge I think there was a couple four years ago. They were in the same. Yeah Yeah and They are like wincing at a political speech in that moment was kind of Caught and they viral. And and Vince VAUGHN still wasn't canceled then but he was like much more Vulnerable to being canceled from that and I think he was is with meeting with trump. And so getting to what happened to me as I predicted that and I was also mocking the idea of canceled culture culture. In how just meeting with the president would it would ultimately lead to your cancellation and ostracization from society and Fox News pick that up as the prime example of liberal outrage of the Inter. You Super Liberal. They caused super liberal did they. I'm a leader of the alt-left the guys and you represent all the Internet. Basically you represented all of the outrage about it because I am the CEO and president of an Anti Antifa but it but it. But it's it's really telling because it shows you how everything is fueled by even manufactured outrage even when our it doesn't exist the need to create outrage till like to show their base right like look. Look look how. They're trying to cancel everyone and people. Whose Vince Vaughn? What yeah I mean? There were people people who are who were like mad about not to like the level or extent of say like Ellen Degeneres hanging out with George W Bush at the football game like that created created a new cycle question. has anyone ever really been canceled. Because all the so-called cancel people seem to have failed pretty. Well I mean there have been people in the news news media who've been canceled but that's because of legitimate stuff like me to start a sexual assault sexual abuse like that. That's a good question I want to go ahead and move on from Vince. Vaughn we will. We'll see how this plays out for him. I have a feeling in about three years. He'll he'll be in another ROM COM and he'll be doing just fine like he does every few years but I think I want to move on. I think what is is maybe the biggest story of these past few days and that story is the documents of turned over to the House Intelligence Committee by left parties. Attorney this off this. This is in Sane this is insane and the emergence of this new character. who how have we never heard of this man before Robert Robert Hyde? Let's talk about hide. I okay because he's important here. I'll do a quick primer on hide. Hide his a connecticut former the businessman you could call them. Formerly failed landscape owner landscape. Business owner. Right now he runs a washington-based a government relations firm according into his linked in page Finley hiding associates. He poses himself as a lobbyist and he is running for the Fifth Congressional District Connecticut of the US House now. He has emerged in all of these messages between him. And Love Parma's over. I believe the just this past summer right. I might it. Might timeline correct. Two Thousand Nineteen is when these messages. Were going back and forth around that they were trying to fire. Get Murray Ugandan ambassador you to Ukraine fired. Yeah now so basically what. What these messages showing is that it seems like Robert Hyde and this guy I mean just follow online line? He's just an utter buffoon of a human being an also just forget breadcrumbs. He just is like he just does not. I gave a cry. He's like he just he will not stop talking even after all this comes out but basically there are messages between him and parties show. That hide had some kind of surveillance in the Ukraine on the ambassador and he was able to give a partners like like her location nation. Day to day and then in one very a couple of very alarming messages seem to suggest that he knew people who were offering to take care of her her almost sounds like offering to put a hit on the ambassador for the right price. Like unless I'm reading this completely wrong which I don't think I am. Usually the first assumption is the right one but I mean at least leave some room for doubt that it's possible. He meant something else but yes I would probably I mean this is obviously not good at all this kind of no way to spend. This is something that I need to know how the FBI has no idea that the US ambassador acid has surveillance on her. I'm like there's some details I mean like you know. I mean one of the messages. She's in one of the messages high. Says the guys over there asked me what I'd like to do. And what is in it for but them wake up Yankees man. She's talked to three people. Her phone is off computers off. She's next to the embassy not in the embassy. Private security been there since Thursday. He has details tells about where she is. And what's going on. Where is where is her security and all this what is happening and also each piece of information was the handwritten note By Rudy Giuliani under. Its Carleton That's my Parnis. That's my harness. Basically the confirmation that trump was in on all this That was also also one of the documents that's included. That Rudy. Giuliani was saying that he was doing all this on behalf of the president as the President's council so it also then directly again implicates the president And the fact that Mike Palm Pale Iceland remind people Secretary Korea State Where is he all this? How come you heard ambassador drought? Break really think about it. This is a respected ambassador. Embassador with a sterling reputation ambassador Ianovich who literally in like this idiotic. COEN brothers type of a criminal enterprise surprise at. That's our assumption. That's what it seems like is being stocked And surveilled by shady elements with the explicit intent to get rid of her this quote unquote fool of a woman right. That was also one of the documents. He called her a bit. Like you know High calder bitchy said can't believe trump hasn't fire dispatch. That's sounds like a corner there's Mook but that's that's that's what actually happened. And they did remove her. They removed this qualified ambassador. Who did her job? Well because She was impeding this quote drug deal as Bolton has described it. I WanNa talk a little bit. We're going to get to the Giuliani thing. The Guiliani letter which I think is kind of pretty damning and also the partners hand no but I do want to focus a little bit more about on this threat and Remind folks of the testimony of embassador Yvonna Vich in which this this is what she said in her testimony she said that Carol Perez who is she's actually the director general the US Department of of the Foreign Service Division. Carol Peres contacted the ambassador and said that. She said that she didn't know what Perez was telling us. She didn't know what was happening. But there's a lot of nervousness nervousness on the seventh floor up the street meeting at the White House. She said she's giving our heads up and she said that she needs to get home. This is what she said. You're gonNA testify if Testified this she said. There's a lot of concern for me that I needed to be on the next plane home to Washington and I was like what what happened and she said I don't know but this is about your security. You need to come home immediately. You need to come home on the next plane and I said physical security I mean. Is there something going on. And here are the Ukraine because sometimes Washington has Intel or something thing that we don't necessarily and she said No. I didn't get that impression but you need to come back immediately. She said it was for my security that this was for my wellbeing people were concerned a it seems like there was information that that the State Department had at least which means I believe that the president would have known that there was some some threat to the ambassador of direct physical threat. Which I'm assuming was is is a about these conversations? Yeah you can only assume that it's a threat of a physical threat at the moment. Yeah until we know more. Yeah I mean I. At a time for testimony I remember it was unclear what could have been referred for too but now I feel like and this is I believe while opponents of his his team more like we have some stuff that could help you here just to show you how they you know they threaten the The simpliciter remember during her testimony trump tweeted and read out trump's tweet and she testified that she in a way felt threatened by an for a brief brief moment. They're thinking about bring up another article of witness tampering right right And also she had been advised that he he had said something something to the effect of. She's going to go through something something like that. which is I mean? It's such a mob talk right so this is a letter written may tenth two thousand. Nineteen by Rudy Giuliani. I love the letterhead. It just has Juliani. It is a letter directly to president. Alexa lend skit. He says I am private counsel. Donald trump just be precise is presented as a private citizen not as President United States. He goes on to request. A meeting was Alinsky He's saying You know I request a meeting with you on this upcoming Monday thirteenth. I will need more than half an hour of your time. And so what he's saying to. I mean what I would read this as an attorney as meaning. Whatever it is he's talking to you about is for the personal benefit of his client trump? Right and and that's that's at the heart of the matter this investigation. And then that takes us to that note written by partisan handwriting on ritz-carlton Letterhead says quote gets Alinsky to announce the Biden case would be investigated and then also. Let's remind everyone that ambassador Sunland Who paid one million dollars gave a donation and then became the ambassador to your trump testified that everyone was in the loop? Everyone and he did say was quid. Pro Quo so this that that that means that chain and has established going Giuliani through. Solomon all the way up. Top to trump and more and more evidence is coming out especially as the articles calls are now about to head over to president. Trump has been making the case that he was he didn't I don't think he denied any part are of the call that really said that he said there was no quid pro quo. But here's the point. I'm getting too. He he was trying to make the argument that he's not asked he wasn't asking Dolinsky for A favor for him personally. He was saying he was making the he was making it as a favor for the national interest. And if you just took that as face value and you your supporter of the president and that's that's that's the narrative that you're gonNA believe this new leather in addition to obviously the the questions that have been asked. It's the president trump I think the a Reuters reporter asked this Sometime in either November or December and it was a very good question because because trump In the pool spray basically said that he was very dedicated to stamping out corruption within the federal government or within you know in the United States and a Reuters reporter asked him. Have you tried I to investigate anyone for corruption who wasn't a political rival and he basically stumbled on. That didn't really give it sort of a non answer answer and That was sort of like the initial crack in the wall at least for the people who they were sort of like on the fence about it. We're like Oh yeah. That doesn't look very good at all. And now we're seeing. We're seeing this leather. Come out and saying that this this this This focus on trying to get the public announcement of investigation rather than like say Robusta. Investigation of Biden shows that it was was more so for the optics and more so for tarnishing the reputation of the former vice president Joe Biden To hurt his chances in the upcoming presidential election. I do think there is a little bit of politics tied to this because the House Intelligence Committee released this letter just as the house is about is about to send the articles of impeachment to the Senate so this is more so a move of trying to get those Republican senators China. There's who are on the fence about voting for To have witnesses during the trial to basically stand firm in support of of getting witnesses to the trial and and drawing this whole thing out you know they just need four Four Republicans because simple majority fifty one. Thank you might be able to do it. They might let's see so we got Lisa Murkowski Susan Collins Mitt Romney and then Who am I forgetting Rand Paul Rand Paul? Yeah AH might come out for it Rand Paul. You might get Rand Paul Romney Rakowski Collins and you might get one more of the senator from Matt Tennessee Lamar Alexander Lamar Alexander. That's right I always forget about him. And all you need is a simple majority and I think the reason. It's a very smart political move and the reason why they might be able to get away with that Public sentiment has sustained itself. That seventy to seventy one percent that most Americans want witnesses at at this trial and let's remind people that there's two articles of impeachment but one is for of course a piece of paper what's the second one trump's obstruction of congress. Right he's even obstruct Congress some more than Richard Nixon like. He has not turned over. Anything like no evidence. Like there's a reason why Bolton Pompeo pens and Espera have not even you know testified however as of today we have learned that Bolton's book might be finished so good timing for Bolton And he and he's going to talk about apparently late Ukraine and Russia. So let's see let's see what he says he's I also WanNa add in And this is something that's been floated around for the last couple of weeks and and I'm about seventy thirty in terms of believing that this is the case. I'm probably moving up a little bit more to like eighty twenty believing that this is a the case but Pelosi's strategy in terms of Trying to delay the articles of impeachment or delay sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate but but one important part about this. And that's something that I think. Most people are missing. Is that this particular Release of the Giuliani memo Is I think another way of trying to drag the Senate trial out as much as possible so that it hampers the campaigns of the senators who are running for president and the Democratic field namely Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth warned. It does her amy Klobuchar but she hasn't really been She hasn't really been characterized as a a top tier nominee but she's thinking about retaining Pelosi's thinking about retaining control of the House and I think she sees Bernie and worn as a threat to hurt down ballot races in the general election action. That won't be staying after surprise against it but I also think she wants to deprive trump gloating rights when it comes to The State of the Union address which is First First Week of February remember correctly because trump wants nothing more than we have sources on this to be exonerated before that speech to the nation. Right so he can gloat. And what's what's the likelihood you guys think that Trump will avoid doing the state of the Union. Like on a scale of zero. The town with ten lately will do the Say the Union One ten absolutely will. I was ten. Being most likely he'd he'd do it five. Depending upon how impeachment goes because I know he is obsessed with the impeachment process and according to The Wall Street Journal article that came out a few days ago. Because you guys remember remember. There was a wholly wrong crisis. I know every day is like eight hundred years old Apparently the domestic politics of impeachment helped hoped influence his decision on Iran. Because he wanted to win over some Republicans so I do think that weighs everything on his mind right now and if he doesn't feel you can get the exoneration why won't he punt. It's trump. That's good politics for him right. I mean look I think there are probably lots of different different reasons. Nancy Pelosi thought it best to hold onto the articles until two today the vote was taken. You know resolution passed to send the articles to the Senate one of those. And I think this makes complete sense is that. Why do you want to do this before? The Holidays Obituary Konopka. Just stuff it through and just be done with the new year and give prompted a clean little slate to start twenty twenty but also I mean it makes sense. It would make sense to me too. I mean like at the end of the day. I mean. Whoever that nominee the Democrat nominee is? They're going to go up against trump and so two two ruined trump's election year to the extent that she can as long as she can. I think make sense but also I mean clearly Mitch Mitch is not budging on coming to an agreement about how the trial is going to be held held. And I think it's fair not to send it over when you know it's it's not going to be an actual real trial if you don't have witnesses and you don't have documentary evidence. That's on a trial. What is a trial? That's how trials happen so you know. I think that's a legitimate. If Mitch McConnell had come to an agreement earlier maybe she would not have held onto those articles Until today what good is it together guarantee from Mitch. McConnell if he's just going to turn around and basically stab you in the back I mean there's no as not like Pelosi has any leverage on in terms of what happens in the Senate trial trial if if McConnell says bad look publicly hurt McConnell publicly McConnell does not care he's cocaine Mitch Okay If he if he really wanted to confirm a hundred more conservative judges as a revenge for basically going going through his impeachment process so I sent a Cuomo show before it actually happened in Romero's outnumbered i. I strongly advocate for Democrats to play procedural Hardball Football. I said Pelosi should definitely withhold it and the reason for it is because of the public sentiment again. That seventy seventy one percent of Americans want witnesses so so you know. I agree with Toronto. You'RE NOT GONNA try to win over Mitch. McConnell like a James Bond villain he reveals his plot illiteracy has said repeatedly like they are in sync with the White House. Counsel and for those of you are lawyers. That's like the judge and jury foreman like openly saying. Hey we're going to be helping the defense and what's stunning about that corruption. Is They have to take an oath. Oath of impartiality and Mitch. McConnell has openly said repeatedly. I'm not going to be impartial. Which I'm going to be very biased? But people want witnesses and so it's it's not about putting pressure on McConnell and finally Schumer said this yesterday it's about putting pressure on these very vulnerable Republicans who who are up for reelection in two thousand Twenty Cory Gardner Mick Sally Tillis maybe Murkowski down the line You also have collins. You also have a seat available in in Georgia and these guys now will have to live with the decisions they make the next week or two right. 'cause people won't forget And if you've got seventy eighty percent of Americans what witnesses and you've got these very vulnerable. Republicans who are siding with trump. You go after these Republicans you extract a political cost which is what they're gonNA do and pay for the Senate just pushing back on that. Because I I don't think the seventy percent number that you're floating as being in support of Witnesses during a trial is for To simply hurt trump. I think it's also to Hurt Biden and hurt the Democrats. It's because they believe that. Say Joe Hunter Biden Any of these Democrats who are involved possibly the whistle blower Should be brought forward in the Senate trial Paul as witnesses. I've actually talked to Senator Mike Bron for my podcast. Which is coming out on Wednesday to plug right there? But I gotta do it. He was just saying hang on. And it's hashing it out for those who are not aware. Mike Brown was saying that the Republican strategy is is. They don't care if they're not viewed as independent jurors. If it's if they want to bring about witnesses they're going to bring. They're going to try to stick the knife and twisted as much as they possibly can to make Democrats her on this decision as much as possible. So whether it's about subpoena Joe Biden Hunter by then the whistle blower. They'll do it. And I think that's where you're seeing the seventy percent whether it's Republicans who are in support of it. I think there's going to be It's going to turn into a circus and I think that's kind of what President trump and the Republican Party Wanted to turn into nobody for the Republicans it says. It's about forty br. The newest pulses but forty percent Republicans wanted. But even. Then that's fair if that's that's what they WANNA do It's still in the advantage of the Democrats to get witnesses especially as we've seen that this evidence especially as you've seen that seventy percent of Americans. I think that what trump did but was against the Democrats as they don't have a majority in the Senate and they need a sixty. What sixty seven vote In support supportive removing trump from office. He's not gonNA get removed. We all know this in places so it's all about image is all about his reputation extracting striking protocols and also. I think there are people both. Actually you know some Republicans. I hope independence who realized the gravity of Trump's actions. Right like the have to set a precedent for history as well because the numbers at decide which is a big number. Is it seventy percent of Americans. Even those who don't want to remove trumper impeach him. I'm still say what he did was wrong and that was like last month so as more and more especially this left thing. And that's the big upshot that that's the big upshot up Nancy Pelosi holding off because the you know in situations like this time can be on your side because that is the discovery of more evidence or witnesses more documents you know more information out in the in the public that is going to be helpful going forward talk a little bit better today. Pelosi did announce the seven managers that will be basically presenting the case case for impeachment to the Senate. All of them are members of the house. House Democrats and I think in in Clinton's impeachment they were twelve but right They're seven impeachment managers including trumps favorite. Mr Adam Schiff. You've got came Jeffries. Though lofgren Grin Nadler Soviet Garcia Jason Crowe unveiled demings So but we still aren't at a point right now where we have any idea who's going to be testifying with anyways is going to testify but as far as I understand it. The impeachment trial is set to begin next week. Is that correct Senate Majority Leader Mitch. McConnell announced stunned Earlier this week that they will start a trial next Tuesday. Of course there's going to be a lot of procedural matters happen so it may you may not see like actual witnesses if they vote on it. You may not see any fireworks probably much later on whether it'd be later in the week or the following week okay. All right a couple other stories that I thought were interesting just this morning. We learned that the entire Russian government has resigned. The whole entire government from president all the way down resigned line of course Putin stands putting standalone. I mean I did hear about this but I wasn't sure what it really meant like everyone. Yeah the entire government. How many people I don't I don't even know how many people it is but the analysis on this they're saying well? This is not something that was completely unexpected. A Putin has been talking about constitutional reforms that amendments that would help him be able to maintain power longer. He's been in power for twenty years and there was something like simple Similar to this happened to an eight at that point Putin was facing a term limit so medvedev became president so Putin became prime minister but he really retained all the power. They're just kind of playing is moving chess pieces around to make sure Putin stays in power and now Putin has Proposed a number of amendments Number one to lift the two year term limit for president number to raise them residency requirement for presidential candidates from ten to twenty five years. He would fully qualify other kinds of things privacy of international law. I thought this was interesting. Initiate dismissals for the president himself to be able to initiate initiate dismissals for judges who are acting dishonorably. I mean God. That's that's a lot of power so this is this basically Putin's GonNa be the czar and he's never leaving and I'm sure trump is very envious right. Now it goes is to the the Soviet Union there Stalin and Khrushchev and Lenin. It's just I don't know it's it's Kinda tough to see how anyone US Russia as a sympathetic player in all of this and do a lot of conservatives doing less I don't know man. I mean I think I think the main threat the main national security threat in the minds of conservatives as China Russia is like a distant number two not even through like a`model or beacon I also think you know horseshoe theory applies here too. I've seen all I've seen far left fringe People on the spectrum Shaw who are very supportive of Putin and I mean if you go and watch Rt.. which is the Russian state-sponsored news channel. They're very far to the left. I mean A. It's it's actually kind of weird. They don't like trump but yet Putin and trump are more or less friendly. So it's just it's just a weird dynamic. I mean if you will far enough to love you end up with the right. I guess. That's that's how it works but There's been some reporting this week. I think in the last week and I didn't read too much about it but I saw the headlines that there's already evidence of some meddling from Russia again in elections a steer. Either one of you hang for heck that's I don't know what that means how this impacts the election that is all. I know. It's two things that Putin as a personality. Not His popularity has increased the past two three years left among Republicans or those registered voters stunning agree with Suraj. What he's saying is that It's not like a model. They want to emulate especially United States of America but at the same time because of the very friendly pro-putin overtures of Donald Trump was get to criticize him in any way shape or form in the past three years you've seen in exultation of Putin and also is really dangerous for the the global society is how these authoritarian leaders have kind of Trojan horse themselves into power using a flawed democratic critic. Means and once they get in power how they Ero- those Democratic Institution C. C. With Putin you're seeing with organ in Hungary and you're also seeing with Earth gone in Turkey and I just wanted to say that to get a lot of Pro or the controls for us I mean and also yeah. That was another big piece of the news that Russia allegedly has hacked or tried to hack Barista And of course Barista as we know Is the company that Hunter Biden News to sit on and just to see I'm sure they are doing it. Because Donald trump openly said a foreign countries please interfere. He's open to it so they're digging being there searching and you know who else is going to be doing it. Iran and you know who else is going to be interfering Saudi Arabia so it's going to be a free fall guys idea that like foreign interference. Appearance is like some novelty. I mean it's kind of a fallacy. I mean we've known for some time that you know. Russia has tried to play a role in in our elections for some for a while. Even if like no one does it better than America. No one does foreign election. The United States is certainly not above Guilt on this because I mean just look at pretty much Every single Disaster over the last century. I mean you can even look at Just in relation to Iran. I mean all of this was triggered because of the nineteen fifty-three coup d'etat of The President Mohamed Masada and Basically reinforcing are increasing the power power of the Shah of Iran on the Pelosi. So it was. It's we've had our fingers in everything but that is just one one big. CIA and United States Disaster UK was involved because we're going to drag the Brits to into this if we're going to go down but yeah I mean it's because I think the the reason why in the place that we are now is because I think the United States is spent too much time meddling in foreign in other countries affairs is presidents did not openly invite foreign interference in US elections number one correct but just because just because the rhetoric is different in the same. Doesn't change the badness of the two things I might be the radical group but I do not want interference in a US elections. I actually want robust post election security because it impacts our national security. I think you've pretty much dead center here I think we all agree here. Both realities at at the same time that yes. The United States is extremely guilty of doing this or other countries. And we don't want to recreate these things but at the same time we don't want sit there and go. Well you know we after up in Iran and we asked up and Chile and we've kind of screwed Middle East so come on and come on in Cuba. Maybe we'll have to topple the trudell regime in in Canada. Please leave candid. Alone is the only place I have to go. One last one last Israel WanNa touch on before we wrap up and that is trump in a in a recent interview with Laura Ingraham at Fox said said something very shocking and he said that Saudi Arabia has recently put a billion dollars in a bank account. We have no idea who's bank account for US troops. What's going on here? ERSAN areas baby US troops mercenaries they don't even realize it and no one knows who's getting I do believe the Pentagon has said quietly. It's none of that's true but is is now you probably saw the quiet. Sure there's a lot of Off The books black bag jobs the the US dealing with in relation to Iran because obviously Saudi the Rauner challenging each other for many of the Middle East so I wouldn't be surprised if trump basically just slipped up and sets of. He shouldn't have said well. That's interesting everything so yeah I mean that's why we gotta take phone away guys. Speaking of which just today. A new book came out called a very stable genius. I WanNa read one quote from it go out and get it it. It says in spring two thousand seventeen trump clash tillerson when he told him he wanted his help. Getting rid of the foreign corrupt practices. Act a law that prevents us for an individual from bribing driving foreign officials for business deals quote. It's just so unfair that American companies aren't allowed to pay bribes to get business overseas trump says according to the book. We're going to change change that I have not read this book. I am seeing little clips and quotes from it all over twitter and it is from By Phil Rucker and Carolinian lennick a very stable genius and I heard it as I heard is full of shocking shocking details. That trump is much worse Mentally than we ever imagined. All right this podcast probably gonNA come out after and but it just announced parnassus giving exclusive interview to Rachel maddow tonight. I'm waiting for high to get arrested. How does this man not get arrested if he's like offering a hit on? US ambassador what is happening demand still tweeting and running for Congress tonight after Madda show an interview with Arneses. Maybe all right. Can you tell us about your podcast where we can listen to it. Yes J. and stitcher it's on Google. It's called hashing it out Essentially what I do is I invite a guest on each week and we talk about one particular issue and really get into into the weeds of it This week I actually have two episodes coming out. yesterday Or on Tuesday. I sat down with Tom. Rogan who has been has appeared here on forty fifth guests in the past and he and I talk about megs it the exodus of Harry and Meghan again what it means for the Royal Family and what it means for Brexit and The British monarchy going forward because a lot of people are worried that this is eroding at the institution of the British monarchy. And then my next episode which is coming out on. Wednesday is my interview with Senator Mike. Braun from Indiana a Republican first term senator and we talk about impeachment. We talk about healthcare and we talk about climate change. So it's GonNa it's I think it's a good episode. I'm excited aside for guests all here at awesome. We'll check it out. Team makes it all the way. One more reason to move to Canada. and which I think I believe we get your regular senator. CNN contributor. I believe you are On Tappers Jake Tapper said of the Union every Sunday right once in a while but I got nothing to. I got a speech. But he guys won't be today before it's done so just see me on twitter award seeming come. I don't do it in the sleeping. Don't don't disturb Wad. If he's sleeping in the minivan. I like it all right all right. Thanks so much guys and thank you for for tuning in this week and we'll be back we back in seven days a big thanks to all our listeners for tuning in to the forty fifth podcast week after week. And if you'd like to give us further support you can do that by becoming a patron at Patriotair dot com slash forty fifth pod by doing so you can become a supporter and patron for as little as five five bucks a month to do so good Patriot dot com slash forty fifth pod. A shout out and thank you to our sponsors. They make this program possible in urge Charleston. Please check out our sponsors and user products and thank you them for helping us produce with thank you to our audio producer Hannah McCarthy our our executive producer Rachel Bell and you can find us on social media. We are on twitter facebook instagram. Our handle is at forty fifth pod. Our website is www dot the forty fifth pod dot com. Thanks again for tuning in the next week.

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