20 Episode results for "Jay College of Criminal Justice"
What's Wrong With Our Hate Crime Laws?
"Today on the argument hate crimes her batch but are hate crimes laws the best to prosecute them we are following breaking news out of the atlanta area where he man is accused of killing eight people including six asian american women deadly shooting spree raising new concerns about asian americans being targeted across the country. I wanna see a deeper investigation into whether or not these shootings and other similar crimes are racially motivated. It looks racially motivated to me. Very surprised if he's not charged with a hate crime. But i can't speak to what prosecutors do in that regard eight people were killed at run. Spas and georgia this month. Six of the victims for asian american authorities aren't sure if shooter will be charged with a hate crime in forty seven states and the district of columbia hate crimes designation is designed to exact harsher consequences for perpetrators by a sees led to the crime. But it's not always clear when a hate crimes designation will be used or even if adding a hate crimes charge to an attack is in the best interest of the victim for society at large. I'm jane kostin and when it comes to hate crimes. I'm conflicted over one. A crime is a hate. Crime and weather are flood criminal. Justice system is really the best way to deal with the people who commit them. One of my guests today. Says it's definitely not kevin adults a professor of psychology at john. Jay college of criminal justice and the author of queering law and order. But my other guests says that while hate crimes laws may just be one tool to combat. They're very important. One st freeman is vice president of civil rights at anti-defamation. So there's been for understandable reasons a lot of talk about when a hate crimes designation is used one is not. What does that mean. But i think that it's worth backing up a little bit and saying what is a hate crime versus a hate incident. Steve can you give us. What is the legal definition of a hate crime. Sure he crime is a crime. There's an underlying crime whether it's vandalism assault or some other crime. We are the perpetrator targets. The victim selects the victim. Because of the victim status typically race religion ethnicity sexual orientation gender identity and similar categories. The idea being that it's a category that somebody is unable or should not have to change. It has an immutable characteristic of that person. And the concept. Is that these kinds. Having impact that extends beyond the individual victim and that person's family to broader communities. Kevin does that line up with how you would define it. Yeah i definitely would define it very similarly. Some things might not necessarily be a crime as you had mentioned and might not be something to be charged as a crime so it could be viewed to the public as a speech but if there's no underlying crime involved whether it'd be assault or vandalism than it wouldn't legally defined as a hate crime right because there'd be hate incident like screaming at someone. I'm sure happened to all three of us in some sector because welcome to being part of a marginalized i. That's not a crime. Hate speech is protected by the first amendment and it needs to be a criminal act. it needs to be. You were assaulted. you were robbed. Something vandalized but also vandalized under the aegis of hate is that steve. Am i getting that right. Yes there has to be the underlying crime in there has to be the bias sweater mice motive kevin. What does it mean to designate a crime as a hate crime. What does that mean for. The perpetrator right. So that's something that makes hate crime law so difficult because it's up to law enforcement and to the attorneys involved to make argument that it actually was. Hey induced that it was something that a person did based on a person's identity group and for a lot of hate crimes that we would colloquially referred to as hate crimes because it all pay in involved a crime. They're not charged as crimes. Because it'd be difficult to tangibly prove that a person had heat towards that target that victim that survivor. And that's what makes it so difficult when we think about a lot of the anti-asian hate crimes that have occurred. These past few months or this past year actually resulted pandemic. But even before that the ncaa crimes have been occurring since nine. Eleven toward south asians muslims. People forget about when we talk about teaching. Hey many of those are crimes and many of those seem obvious involve some sort of targeted act toward certain groups but unless that perpetrator says something explicitly anti or that. Perpetrator has some sort of written record of anti season. Hate if there witnesses that heard the anti eason slurs being spewed before during after the incident occurred. You know unless it happens. Then it's not gonna be charged as such so you know this is a really tricky thing for us to not just deal with as people involved in law and law enforcement that also has communities. Because we're saying that things are hate crimes and then we're getting so disappointed and hurt when the government and law enforcement tells us that they aren't take crimes so what you just said gets at the very very very difficult process of constructing hate crimes. Laws steve can you tell us about. When did america start. The process of codifying hate crimes legislation and law. Because that's something your organization the anti-defamation league the first model of hate crime legislation in the country can a history around this designation. Sure the model that we originally drafted in one thousand nine hundred eighty one was the first and when we first drafted it. They were only got cancelled a states that even considered the idea now forty six states and the district of columbia have laws that are based on a similar model. Just something we're proud of aid deal does not recognize indiana because they're law is so vague to be relatively meaningless so we count forty six. But i think the major impetus for expansion of kremlin's came with the supreme court decision their wisconsin versus mitchell case in nineteen ninety-three vacation was a unanimous nine. Think decision written by. Then chief justice rehnquist. The crime actually involved. Interestingly black perpetrators center white victim a boy who was walking down the street who group Black kids attack to beat up. He was in a coma for several days and that goes to show. Actually i think it's an important point. They are written in a neutral way. You can have a whack perpetrator and victim away perpetrator victims similarly with in terms of sexual orientation or gender or religion or ethnicity. The idea being that somebody is targeted because of at prison status. That weren't special treatment in the criminal. Justice system hate. Crimes are message Sending the the concept really is and. I must be argued but agree with kevin. There is a criminal justice or legal element to wet required to prove it but there is also a broader conversation discussion about actions that have an impact that goes beyond the individual victim and affects society. And i think we all know that you can't legislate. Hey away there's no magic wine to make it disappear and hate crime. Laws are basically one tool one tool in a toolbox that adds to also include education and community response and all those kinds of factors and the fact that the law is there is. It's one more way to show as a society that we think. These crimes need to be taken seriously. Need to address seriously. Because of the impact that they have kevin. You've researched the impacts of micro aggression and discrimination and hate on the mental and physical health of marginalized groups. And i know for me personally. Matthew shepard was murdered. When i was in grade school and i wasn't out because i went to catholic school in ohio so no but i remember feeling that as an incident aimed at. It wasn't aimed at me. It was aimed at a very specific person in laramie wyoming. But i felt the impact of that hate and i felt very much the messaging that was sending. Can you tell me a little bit. About what the psychological impact of hate crimes can be on a community absolutely. And what you experience is something that people historically marginalized groups will experience when someone that they can identify where they share a similar marginalized identity. Wed goes through something. That's violent or event is killed by something that's violence and this concept is called historical trauma sometimes referred to as collective trauma and it's the idea that people may feel experienced trauma symptoms in reactions to incidents that they aren't directly related to soe research on trauma has bound in general that survivors of trauma whether it be wore survivor. Sexual assault survivors hate crime. Violence survivors will experience lots of symptoms ranging from you know difficulty functioning a jittery nece fear paranoia difficulty sleeping intrusive thoughts etc etc. And it's something that you could see cuts across every group so black people are killed by police. Officers let people across the country across the world may feel a visceral reaction to seeing the event particularly now that things are being video recorded or even just hearing about those things. Because you imagine it could have been me could have been my brother or this could have been my cousin etcetera and even for this past month with the shootings in atlanta for american people. They might experience that as well. So yes hate. Crimes do send a negative message to people and communities on who experienced them the closer you are to that person's identity groups or the more similarities. You have that may also influence. You know how much effect it has on you. It does cause even a terror in the community right. And so that's another thing that i don't know if we're going to talk today. But the relationship between domestic terrorism and hate crime law and how things might be classified as one or both and oftentimes. It involves anything related to racism. Let's get into that classification. Because clearly what we're talking about here is a different form of harm. And steve as you said hate crimes. Legislation is one of many tools that we have to combat it. But here's my central question is hate crimes legislation. Would it supposed to do and steve. I'll go to you. Because i know this has been the subject of several decades of your life's work so he's better to prevent crimes criminal. Dogs don't prevent crimes. It's too narrow a prison to look through. I think you have to look at law and education and leadership and help lines crisis counseling various kinds of of examples in sort of a big picture of howard respond to hate. You're not going to be able to prove a negative. You're not going to be able to say criminal laws don't prevent crime is because it's really a hard map since it's sort of proving negative but i think more broadly the impact is measured by looking at the way legislatures have reactive. The the law enforcement officers have reacted. And we've talked about fighting hate and we've seen police departments. We've seen district attorney's offices we've seen legislatures seen plenty of different forums. Where just understanding. The concern has led to more effective action. I guess when we started working timeouts forty years ago. People didn't understand the concept that certain kinds of crime can have a greater impact and over time it became very common and understood things so that people said you talked bad economy and they understood that was targeting somebody because of who they are and there was widespread acceptance that it was a bad thing. So i'm not really sure how to answer the question of how effective they are. Because it's like proving. As i said before approving racket of how effective as a murder lie. I was affected as well. How was a very still gonna have murders have reached Early but part of it is making sure that we have the tools to assess them legislation pending now in congress col collegial barra and heather higher though. He act that we're supporting and really helps address that question because it talks about grants to promote hate time training and prevention and best practices in data collection issues all of which go to a legislative understanding that this is important. It's important to have an anti is decide. How big a problem it is so we can allocate the appropriate resources necessary to address when we worked on the mitchell case in nineteen ninety three. Who has remarkable competent. That we we powder was that the attorney general's of the other forty nine states joined in one speech supporting wisconsin and it's law and that doesn't happen very often when we worked on the matthew. Shepard james bird federal hike prevention. Have we let a coalition over two hundred organizations civil society groups that law enforcement agencies all of which underscored the importance of the last. So i think that it just sort of by virtue of the widespread support had it showed by itself that this was something that people thought was important broader acknowledging acceptance of hate crimes legislation and acceptance writ large as you mentioned by civil society groups and attorneys general. That seems like a net positive but kevin you have a look of skepticism and this very visual medium. What makes you skeptical about hate crimes legislation as a tool for combating bias crimes. You know it's interesting that you say that. Because i think i generally do support hate crime laws. Just want them to be used effectively right. I'm a queer person of color. I can be targeted by a hate crime in any day of my life. It's a heightened sense especially for me now and asian american walking down the streets even though a lot of times you don't read music asian americans so i feel safe in some ways because of that and i also have the knowledge in knowing that the criminal justice system is disproportionately overrepresented with black and brown people and that a lot of times people that do get charged with hate. Crimes are black and brown people which then increases that number on and that a lot of white people who engage in crimes or commit crimes. Actually don't get charged. I mean. I think it's important for us to acknowledge other major events throughout history for example the two thousand and sixteen orlando police shootings that the fbi deemed as not being a hate crime because the perpetrator did not demonstrate enough information that he was anti-gay or anti-us bt q. Or anti next even though the specifically laczi next night and that majority of the victims who were killed were queer latina and puerto rican people specifically with some media oppenheim overlooks. And so you know if that wasn't a hate crime with witnesses who say that. They've seen him at gay bars. Maybe there is internalized homophobia or even his own ex wife who mentioned that. He may have had homophobic views. That still wasn't enough granted he was killed and so didn't get to be charged but that itself there was some reporting. They're saying that. This was about america's actions overseas a lot of how we think about the law is about intent and it's about intent and results so whether or not the person who committed the pulse shootings was aiming at killing queer latino people he murdered queer latino people queer people of color and traumatized a community for life. Essentially steve. I'm interested in your thinking about how legislation could start to think about how these identities intersects because we all occupy a lot of different identities and there have been a lot of crimes where it's a crime against a person who is religious but that person is also a woman or that person is also african american as we saw with the charleston shootings. Is there any way in your view that we can make legislation match up with how conflicts these crimes can be there and really. It's a really really important question. There is a legal piece in. There's a broader societal communities. Whether situation meets the legal standard for beyond a reasonable doubt to prove a case is only one question how you describe a crime may not necessarily be exactly the same in the public arena in the court of public opinion as it is in a in a court of law prosecutor making advocates has to show specific elements to satisfy the jury and they have to show the underlying crime and they have to show the selection of targeting. But it's perfectly understandable and reasonable to talk more broadly about the kind of impacted crimes have and i think it's a legitimate distinction to make beyond the individual situation so so important to talk more broadly about crimes crime reporting the number of crimes where the witness a witness or victim who is reluctant to come forward and in fact it's a crime but it never goes reported as a or is a jurisdiction which is not accepting that arche crimes reported It's it'll crazy but there are cities in this country that reported no crime whatsoever in twenty nineteen it just. It's not credible. It's important to have a understanding more. Broadly that these crimes are probably motivated by hate. Even if you can't prove it while at the same time in a Holding to the legal standards because to satisfy constitutionality. You have to be able to show other ones. You run into a free speech. Otherwise you say you know you're punishing somebody's thoughts unless you can show a direct connection between the the intent and the selection. You run into some legal problems. When i have been the recipient of hate it is coming generally from someone who probably has already had a lot of interactions with law enforcement. They are likely homeless or struggling with mental health crises. And they're screaming at me. And i'm like yes. I would prefer to not racist or comments of any kind but also who gets to be protected and who was prosecuted. I think that's really important question. Because i have a lot of power in a lot of respects in my life. I am pretty vigorous. But i'm also comparatively well off and though i am occupying identities. They are like the person who's screaming at me doesn't have a lot of that is that does that shape tiger thinking about this kevin. This is exactly what has shaped how i think about these things. And i think that's a big part of of why i'm hesitant in this very black and white unintended haitai law because it's so nuanced that there are so many things to take into consideration right and so to put people with mental illness to incarcerate them or to treat them as criminals as opposed to addressing the mental illness That's something that worries me. Our concerns me because we're not really addressing the problem where just perpetuating this notion that people's mental illness are dangerous and so forth on my also think that there needs to be more restorative. Justice approaches a hate crime laws for people to think about ways that we can identify label. Maybe even convict people hate crimes but thinking about you know what the actual punishment process could be for all parties involved. I think there are different levels to this depending on. You know how premeditated certain acts were. What the pain and suffering the victims or the families of the victims are. I think there are so many things that against consideration but the ways that it sort of set up now is that hate crimes are yes or no and convicting don't convey as opposed to looking at all the different levels. I'm anything for me. Particularly looking at the asian hate crimes when it's black and brown people who are committing those hate crimes for me is what is that about how they internalized some or been socialized to believe he's anti agent believes because that's what white supremacy teaches us. Opportunities collared fight against each other to scapegoat each other and then the last week. I just want to bring up. That's also very difficult to talk about. Is this notion of implicit bias. Yes some hate crimes where the person is very explicit. There's tangible evidence. But what about people who act on their implicit bias used especially if they're not necessarily premeditated and then are we just contributing to more historically marginalized people into this criminal justice system. Is that really what we're trying to. Steve what do you think. How would you respond to pack first of all. There's no question that there is racism. There's institutionalized racism in the criminal system. I i want to speak to what kevin said about mental health. Nobody should get incarcerated for he crime when they're mentally ill. That's part of the process is people should who are mentally. Ill should the appropriate treatment and they also think apart from that. We should be talking about more about restorative justice that not everybody who commits a crime should get sanctions for it. And when there is an opportunity for restorative justice instead and i think that the law is is one tool. But it's wrong. To assume that a kremlin they're going to provide the hanser. I do think that there is an important role. I'm not ready to give up on the system just because the system is fly. I think that we talk about restorative justice. We also need to talk about trying to build or rebuild a system to make it fair at the same time. We've seen the impact that laws can make over time. We saw how you know. The the anti-discrimination laws rights acts of the nineteen sixties. We weren't necessarily radius country for them when they were first enacted but over time they become sort of now. We're used to it and and we've bought into it as citing partly even though there's still plenty of discrimination in housing and discrimination in employment discrimination accommodations in and stuff where there is generally an understanding among most employers. I think it's fair to say that. They can't discriminate. Is the system perfect far from it. No those laws are still being tested and still being used and the extensive hate crimes are criminal elected discrimination laws the fact that they exist in the fact that people are tuned into them and aware of them is a positive step. It's not the answer. But i think it's important to understand. Even as we're proponent of a kind is that we don't see them as the one size fits all solution to all the different issues that kevin raised in jamie erase. Hey my name is jeff. And i live in los angeles. I'm arguing about whether single family. Zoning is ethically or even logistically okay for our city foreseeing certain neighborhoods only allow single family. Homes has led to a lot of racial segregation and economic aggression. And i think i tend to be with that. What are you doing about with your family. Your friends your frenemies. Tell me about the big debate. You're having a voicemail by three four seven nine one five four three two four might plan excerpt of it on a future episode. I'm jennifer tham. I'm wesley morris. We are to culture writers at the new york times and we host a podcast called processing and every week. We talk about the way. Popular culture connects to life. and right. now we're talking about the n. Word a word that my most rebellious youthful south loved using but recently just started to feel curdled coming out of my mouth. I've never used it. I still can't believe that. I mean it's been used on me but i have never used it. We're going deep into y in this episode and into our cultural relationship with the word to. It's an awful word and yet it's still with us after all the time and how we use. It is still debated even our friendship. So we talk about that too. You can listen to still processing wherever you get your podcasts and you can listen to this episode right now. One of the challenges here is that we still have a very i. I'll explain what very hollywood idea of. What a hate crime. Looks like we think of it as looking like a kind of the ghosts of mississippi taipei crime or something like that. That's not what this looks like a lot of times. And that's why in my view sometimes like jail won't make the person who screamed at me for being not heterosexual less homophobic. But kevin. i want to ask you. What does restorative justice. Look like for you. What does it mean to make someone not hate me so much. I think for me. When i think about restorative justice. I have to think outside of this western lens. I think back to for me as a person from the philippines pre colonized philippines. I think about the types of work that they do in hawaii with indigenous who coined people. It's this notion of really getting the entire community involved for the person to recognize that what it is that they did has affected not just the survivor or the family of the victim but it has really affected the whole community in some of these different cultures. You know there is the notion of families coming together to talk about ways. Fat bay think that all parties involved can learn from this lesson and so it's really thinking outside of the box when it comes to hate crimes particularly there might not be any remorse because they genuinely hate whoever it was that they targeted and so for that there might be some creative ways of thinking about how they might be able to challenge some of those biopsies in this case with. Mta's in hate crimes. Perhaps it's because people aren't learning about asian american history because perhaps people aren't learning about the types of racism and oppression is making people have been experiencing for centuries or even ambit- specific as that we had our own government leaders that were spewing out anti asian and anti-chinese rhetoric on for over a year. And so maybe systems need to do a better job of educating people about equity and about history so that we can try to avoid these things from happening altogether and just want to speak to that again for a minute jeanne. Of course i think the lens that it makes most sense to look through when we're talking about a house is the way we respond to communities. We're not necessarily gonna do something that's gonna make the individual feel better as an individual. There's not a lot that we can do about that but when we take crime seriously as a society which we need to do in which the concept of ecommerce we're gonna do. We don't always do it as well as we said. There should be a message to the cortex jewish community or the black community or the asian community or the al acuity or wherever it is that it's a crime that we as city as neighborhood as a society are taking seriously and i think fat support dealing with that feeling that you're not alone. You're we know you're you may be feeling that crime. You may be feeling isolated. you may be feeling vulnerable. You may be feeling threatened. You may be feeling angry. Maybe the whole range of emotions but we're also trying to address feelings of people like you who share some of those experiences in those fears. We see you as a society of we see each other as a society and i. It doesn't always work. But i think concept is when you're talking about. Hey kyla that if somebody is frankly. Somebody's lying in wait outside a lgbtq establishment in target. Somebody anonymously because they just come walking out of there and you deal with that crime by saying this is not acceptable because you will victimized personally and this is also not acceptable because you writ large victims were communicating important message providing an important measure of support and if hate crimes laws do with. They're supposed to do people will see that and we'll say okay. I get that this is being recognized as a crime and they're almost doesn't matter as much joint. Kim what you're saying. It doesn't matter as much what the counts of the criminal charge are as much as it is. What's about how it's described because the prosecutor megan say not can make out a crime structure. You're not dry. Have sufficient evidence to do it. But we're gonna investigate this as a hate crime and we're going to talk about it as a hate crime and that's in some ways equally as important if not more important than actually what conviction. We can secure particularly in cases like murderers where no hate crimes in in georgia and the new ads. Two years to offense that matters when you're talking about an assault that matters when you're talking about endless when you're talking about murders adding ears to somebody who's already going to be proudly in jail for the rest of his life not meaningful from a punitive sense but talking about it as a hate crime. That message is an appropriate message for us to be sending and then it's almost like secondary. What charges actually brought charge really matters when we're talking about how many crimes the fbi counting in particular year and how many resources were out gaining. And what kind of dollars are being sent to provide support and so forth. In the last year that the fbi counted there were over seven thousand which abject twenty day around the country. That's that's way too many one too many. But that's way too many and that's even with all the under report. Even with the fact that the state of alabama reported no hate crimes anywhere in the state for the year. And you still talk that we have way too many. I do want to just challenge one piece. I just want to say it's kind of think it through and hearing your perspective as well and that is like i do appreciate the idea of of at least saying that it will be investigated as a hate crime and i do think that that makes a community feel better and i also think that when it actually is not charged as a hate crime but that can be traumatizing as well. Because i'm thinking about the number of times. I've heard that something was gonna be charged as a hate crime and it doesn't and then to hear the family members than say i can't believe they didn't charge as a hate crime and then to hear the community talking about it and the trauma that happens as a result of that so it's tricky so i do see the positive in at least saying they're gonna investigate it but i also think that when it's not charged at least let alone convicted then that becomes Something that can be harmful to communities. I think that's entirely fair. Kevin and i think that one thing fit prosecutors completion. Think about more is exactly I think this could be regarded as a crime. Even don't pursue those charges. And i think that's an important thing for for us to do for us to recommend them to do the lawyer in the from a legal standpoint. I've seen too many cases where people talk about that. There should be when really shouldn't we don't want every crime with Where the perpetrator and victim of different skin color or a different ethnicity to be said okay. It's a hate crime because obviously it's a because it was a black perpetrator on a white victim so when oftentimes it shouldn't be but in cases we're biased. Looks on its face like a key element. I think it's important to talk about it that way. Because i do think that to the extent that we care about crimes. That's one of the main reasons. One of the main reasons we care about them is because of the traumatizing impact balance society. So maybe this was supposed to be argument. But i'm not arguing that i take the there's been so much back and forth. I'm always extremely hesitant to get into motives in crimes because we might not really ever know and you have what the suspect said and then that is reported as being what the motivation was when as we all know if you are willing to commit mass murder. Maybe you're willing to lie to police. I don't know. I challenge. That i have here is that there have been a couple of recent cases in which someone and it actually kind of hit close to home because i live in washington. Dc and there is a catholic girls school that set may two thousand nine hundred and they were going to start listing same sex wedding announcements in its alumni magazine because they wanted to and a woman left a series of voice mail saying that she was going to blow up the church in response to this the maximum penalty because that she pled guilty to a hate crime because of that designation. She faces a maximum penalty of twenty years in prison and three years of supervised release and fined up to two hundred fifty thousand dollars. Obviously she pled guilty but had she called and threatened to blow up the school for an entirely different reason or if any of these crimes were committed for a different reason. That was not based on. Hate crimes kevin. Perhaps this is something that you can speak to a little bit. Where these designations can dramatically change. What the ultimate penalty is in these. Crabs yeah i mean. I think this is where we have to take the whole picture into consideration. We have to take into consideration. Like what would have happened if it even if it's just threat versus someone actually completing some bank. It's very tricky case itself. It sounds like a an outlier of something that could potentially happen. But i'm even thinking of something like between black and asian communities right now if there are key crimes in either direction that happen and there are. These charges added designations added sentences that that might lead to more hostility between those communities. I think when you are having communities is that are often in direct contact sometimes competition with one another and you are essentially in some ways. It feels like they're being pitted against one. Another steve wynn. We're thinking about the ways that different communities of color are interacting with each other. Do you have any thoughts on. How the better deal with bias. Hate and how we punish people for their motivations or their actual crimes that can address these different power relationships. I think the answer is in education. If you wanna take thirty thousand foot view we have programs. We have what we call no place for aid program in week work with schools to talk about bias in the impact of bias and readiness and harm they can do and i think it's a little bit trite but i think also true bit. Young kids aren't necessarily boring hating or sadly learned behavior or it's it's an observed behavior that people kids thin mimic or follow. And i think it needs to be a sort of a whole society approach that really addresses what kids are being taught in either being taught and i also think no penalty enhancement is not always the answer either. It's the way a lot of these laws are written in many cases. It's it's worked in but there are times. Where maybe it's more of an aggravating factor in sentencing mitigate or they're just like there are mitigating factors advocating actors and judge look at at the circumstances and decide what makes sense. I will say in his view that these times definitely need to be taken more seriously but that doesn't necessarily mean there should be mandatory minimum or or mandatory sentencing mandatory punishment. It really means that the crimes are more serious because of the impact they have is is brighter and i think that that is something that across the spectrum. A lot of people most people in civil rights can various like smoothies would would agree that the impact is broader and it remains a conversation about the best way to deal with that. I agree. I think the bottom line. It sounds like we're less arguing as a against each other as much as we're arguing about some of the nuances that we all need to take into consideration. I too am unwilling to give up completely on the law. But i also just want to recognize that it is flawed and again this coming from somebody who agrees that we need to stop hate crimes. So i'm not saying that. No hate crime laws because a crime zone exist. I'm saying reform on how he cried. Laws are us affected considering power privilege intersection. -ality who's really being negatively impacted. I'm in how can be generally think about how this affects criminal justice and law reform in general. Dr kevin is a professor of psychology john. Jay college of criminal justice in the graduate center at the city university of new york and the author of queering law and order. Stephen freeman is the vice president of civil rights and director of legal affairs for the anti-defamation league. Thank you both so much for having this conversation with me. Thank you very much. Thank you and if you wanna learn more about hate crimes legislation. I recommend the anti defamation league's introduction to hate crimes laws originally published in two thousand twelve. If you live in the us you can also find your state take crime laws listed on the n. Double acp website and for critique of hate crimes legislation pred- sarah illustrators piece in the appeal from january twenty twenty. You can find links to all these episode notes. The argument is the production of near times opinion. It's produced by phoebe. Guiterrez and bishara dartmouth edited by alison broucek and polish human with original music and sound design by jones. And fact checking by claire special. Thanks this week. Shannon busta the way the title queering law and order for a second. I was like if that there is a queer version of dick wolf's law and order that greater show of all time would watch. I'm already in.
Special Episode: What Does It Mean to 'Never Forget'?
"Looking for signs that the us economy is rebounding from the pandemic then look no further than american manufacturing which recently set a record for new orders but surging demand has also exposed challenges including a record number of open jobs and piling backlogs. A new series on the optimistic outlook podcast hosted by siemens usa ceo. Barbara hampton offers. A way forward you'll learn about the technology changing the game and the more than eight hundred thousand opportunities to start a career in manufacturing nationwide. That's the optimistic outlook. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi i'm dan barry a right of the new york times. Here's my personal essay. What does it mean to never forget. Nine eleven in his mind. Michael regan should have been down there. He should've had the guts. A longtime new york city employees. Who became first. Deputy fire commissioner after the terrorist attacks of september eleventh. Two thousand one mr regan coordinated scores of funerals and memorial services and helped hundreds of shattered families. Still you could not shake the guilt. He should have been there down at the world trade center after a couple of months. Mr regan finally shared his remorse with a stunned fire department colleague who told him that he had been there. He'd helped transport the bodies of the first. Deputy fire commissioner bill fan and the chief of department. Peter ganci to the morgue on first avenue. Don't you remember looking back. Mr regan said his mental block must have been away to cope with the instant loss of thousands including many close friends. It was a safety mechanism. He said i saw horrible things that day. And i didn't want to think about those things. Twenty years later. The command to never forget retains its power jolting us into the past whenever we see it on a hat or flag or the back of a passing car on belt parkway for all its slogan like simplicity is twinned words seemed freighted with the complexities of guilt. Obligation and even presumption is if we could ever forget but now that an entire generation has been born since the day versions of the question posed. Mr vegan might be asked of all of us who lived at in some way to planes hijacked by al qaeda piercing the north and south towers of the world trade center a third slamming into the pentagon in arlington virginia. A fourth crashing in an open field outside shanksville pennsylvania. All in less than ninety minutes. What exactly do you remember. What stories do you tell when a casual conversation. More into a therapy session. What stories do keep to yourself. And what instantly transports you back to that deceptively sunny tuesday morning for nikki stern a writer. It might be the waft of cigar. Smoke her husband. Jim petoskey vice president at martian mclennan. Who worked on the ninety. Six floor of the north tower enjoyed the occasional cigar or it might be the site of a bicycle just a bicycle. Jim used to cycle. I compartmentalize miss stern said. But there's a permanent leak in the compartment for james longo a former deputy chief of the new york police department. It's driving past the now closed. Freshkills landfill on staten island. He spent nearly a year on that mound supervising pop base camp where one point eight million tons of trade center debris were sifted for human remains and personal effects. The problem is mr lwanga lives on. Staten island you've got to put it where it needs to be. He said of the memories and not open the door. More than you have to. Never forget when i hear. Never forget for nine eleven. My next question is never forget. What said trolls be stone. And associate professor of psychology at john. Jay college of criminal justice never forget the international dynamics that set the stage the homeland insecurities that followed including the harassment of american citizens for simply being muslim. The months of seemingly nonstop funerals the two decades of war and bloodshed. Probably the closest dancer has never forget that it occurred. Mr stone said but it's the little details that will be forgotten. I remember the stillness. As another body was pulled from the rubble and carted away to salutes and construction helmets held over hearts. The of the refrigerator trucks outside the morgue the acrid smell of loss drifting uptown through the newsroom's open windows a landfill the funerals the dust. Of course the call to never forget can also be interpreted as another honorable attempt to preserve some faint sense of the days many emotions honorable but perhaps futile against the ceaseless rub of the passing years the vagaries of memory in the first days after the september eleventh attacks a team of scholars around the country set out to capture the moments flash bulb memories. The vivid enduring mental snapshots formed at the instant of historical import such as the bombing of pearl harbor where the assassination of john f. kennedy. They asked more than three thousand people a few questions. Including where were you when you learn about the terrorist attacks. In new york graduate students working on the study set up tables handed out surveys at union square and washington square where thousands had gathered in the days and weeks after the tax just to be with one another moments of communal morning also now slipping from memory a year later. The researchers asked the same questions of many of the same people only to find that forty percent of the memories had changed aban now saying that he was in the office when he learned the attacks might previously have said that he'd been on a train. These altered recollections were consistent with similar studies done in connection with other historical events according to elizabeth a phelps a professor of neuroscience at harvard university who worked on the nine eleven memory study what distinguished the memories of september eleventh when compared with ordinary autobiographical memories was the extreme confidence. That people had developed in their altered remembrances. Which by the first anniversary had begun to concretize. You have your story and you're sticking to it. Dr phelps said william hearst a professor psychology at the new school for social research who also worked on the study agreed. I think what happens. Is they develop a narrative about their flash bulb emory. He said it becomes their story. Dr hearst wonders whether the changes in memory are somehow linked to a sense of identity. After all what would it say about you as a new yorker as an american. If you didn't know how you first heard about the september. Eleventh attacks aligning one's personal narrative with a consequential moment in history may be a way of asserting that you were part of the effective community that you belong inevitably someday there will be no one alive with a personal narrative of september eleventh inevitably emotional impact of the day will fade a little bit and then a little bit more as time transforms a visceral lived experience into a dry history lesson. This transformation has already begun. Ask any high school history teacher but for now for many september eleventh remains a lived experience we have our stories are possibly altered memories to share or not to share on the anniversary where any day of the year we might tell our stories to hold back the inevitable erasure of time. We might tell them to help us process the moment. Were to explain why we grow quiet whenever we hear bruce springsteen's the rising then again. We might keep our stories locked in some leaky compartment for fear of being perceived as another nine eleven narcissist the hero of our own narrative. Or maybe we keep them to ourselves out of simple. Reverence mr regan. The man who momentarily forgot is now sixty four and then executive j. p. morgan chase. He has his memories his stories. Some are funny in that. Dark irish way of coping summer so sobering that silence is the only response. He avoids the anniversaries the annual recitation of the names of the dead and all the documentaries and books and essays day continues to inspire he will never visit the nine eleven memorial and museum. He said. I don't need to go back mr longo now. Sixty three retired in march after forty years with the nypd. The career distinguished in part by those many months on the staten island landfill. More than forty two hundred human remains were recovered this well as nearly sixty thousand personal items including photographs and identification cards. What he supervised was a village built on tragedy and glow at night with office trailers decontamination. Center a mess hall and conveyor belts waiting to receive the debris bars from lower manhattan looming stacks of crushed vehicles including police cars and fire engines arranged neat. Horrific rose all gone like brigadier boom. Was it even real. Is this to a trick of memory. I remember mr lamongan said so you get up in the morning. Light a candle. Say a prayer and move on mrs stern who went on to write to nonfiction books and four novels also remembers. How could she not shopping for eggs in a super fresh market near her home in princeton new jersey planning to make chocolate chip cookies for her husband. I made the best ones in the world when someone shouted something like the world. Trade center has been hit being notified six months later that a quarter size piece of jim had been identified writing and writing and writing every night through her grief. More than one hundred fifty thousand words that no one else will ever see. Miss stern has spent the last twenty years trying to get past the uniquely suffering kind of thing as she puts it and work toward building something constructive her involvement with the nonprofit peacebuilding organisation. Search for common ground is another form of remembering. I don't want anyone to go through this. Miss stern said but i also don't want to go through life saying you can't understand what i went through. What's the point. why should they. The smell of a cigar. A bicycle drive on the staten island expressway. The anniversary the dust I remember camping out with the national guard and battery park several days after the terrorist attacks. I remember wearing a construction helmet carrying a clipboard. And walking around as if i belonged at the restricted world trade center site then known as the pile and as much of burial ground as a crime scene. I remember the messages of grief. Anger and faint hope scrawled in the dust that had settled on the surrounding buildings scrawled with the tips of fingers. I remember being determined to chronicle these messages. For for the power washers came towers will rise again vernon cherry call home. God be with you. Dana love mom. Remember not wanting to think too hard. About what comprised the dust and not thinking at all about how harmful the dust might be for rescue and recovery workers to inhale. I remember the dust being the color of vanilla. Although my notes say it was gray. But i am certain of this. The dust was everywhere. The world was covered in it. Bitcoin digital assets crypto currency a theorem. You have questions and bit. Stamp has the answers as the oldest and most trusted global cryptocurrency exchange stamp has been building the future of money for more than a decade over four million people around the world of chosen bit stamped easily and securely invest in crypto currencies and with bit stamps world. Class customer support a conversation with a real human is always just a call or email away secure regulated reliable visit bit stamp dot net to learn more visit stamp. For all the ways we crypto.
Checking In w/ Ilyasah Shabazz
"It can really be exhausting. Feel like you're not being heard whether you're not getting the extra pickle you want or you feel like your partner or even your mom and dad or the world is ignoring you. That's why it's so refreshing that. At and t. Is hearing you and making changes. They're giving every single customer new and existing the same deal. That's right out smartphone pricing. That's fair for everyone at att dot com slash best deals restrictions apply. Hey everyone it's michelle williams. And i love being able to share my story with you on my podcast. Checking game with michelle williams. Were my guests. And i we realize we share the ups and downs of our mental health journeys. And i'd love for you to join me iheart. Radio is number one for podcast but don't take our word for it. Listen to checking game with michelle williams every tuesday a part of the black effect on the iheartradio app. Or wherever you get your podcast brought to you by state. Farm like a good neighbor state farm. They're welcome to check in with michelle williams a production of i heart radio and the black effect. Hey everyone it's michelle williams. Twenty twenty has been trying for twenty twenty. What we haven't even gotten into the year and it's kind of been bonkers but i really want us to come together as a community to support each other. Lean on each other and inspire each other. We have come through times of hardships and we shall always prevail so. I can't wait for you to hear my next guest with her words of inspiration and power right now. On checking game with michelle williams. This is a really important podcast. I'm sharing with you today. This podcast is definitely based on my mental health journey It's also based on the book of the same name. But today my guests el-yassa she has me Checking back in on my journey of faith. Today's theme of strength and as a community. And i believe you guys are going to hear some inspiring word from this amazing powerful guest that will help us continue to prevail through these difficult times in our country in in the world. This recording today is something very special. Something very spiritual. My palms are sweating. Because i have the privilege and the honor to have ilyasova chubais checking in with us today. Ilyasova is an author and educator professor at activist and she is the daughter of malcolm x and betty shabazz size. Yup please welcome. Ill yasser shabas. Thank you so much. It's such an honor to be here with michelle. I was really looking forward to this. Because i thought this was going to just a relaxing living room kind of conversation. And oh i tell you. It's been a long year. So i was looking forward. Were not a long day. It's been a very long here is been a long year and we are two months into the new year and end this new year. You released a book and january copy awakening of malcolm x. And it is an account of his adolescent years in prison and. I know that this is what you've been doing all year long. Not only all year long. You've been doing this all lifelong. Yes i have. I've been doing this for a while. And you know i've had many people ask me. When did i know. I was going to step in my father's shoes or or something like that. And it's definitely not stepping into anyone shoes not taking someone's legacy it's way. My mother raised her girl. She always said today. Elliott suggests must drink water. When must give back and you know. She was this example in spite of having six daughters that we felt constable enough when our girlfriends had questions. If i didn't have the answer. I knew my mother had the so. We always we will bring our fence over to ask my mother questions that we needed answers or encouragement or solutions and she was just always there. And so someone who has such compassion. Trust love all. So unconditional makes it easy for you to be the same and so here you go. Yeah well literally. I was telling your publicist essay. Thank you so much you know. We have an hour and now it's like this conversation could easily go into two hours. Because i keep finding questions and things to ask and you kind of went into something that i wanted to ask you saying. I wasn't gonna ask this soon in our conversation. But did you ever feel pressure to keep up the legacy of your parents malcolm x and betty shabazz. Or do you feel. It was just a natural duty or progression knowing that this would be a part of your purpose and or assignment. Never never her arena. I'm going to say yes. There was lots of pressure tonight. Everything this was a part of my duty. An assignment never did ever say. Hey you know what this is. What i wanna do never know something that happened. And that's i think it's important that we focus on the things that we're passionate about as opposed to things that just going to make money and help us pay the bills you know. God gives us certain talents right. I'm happy that i'm so compassionate that i'm so loving. My mother showed me how to do that. My mother showed me how to care. And that was by her caring so much for her daughters and loving us. I mean to the highest power. I'm so grateful that. I had an opportunity to experience that in a mother and someone that i could call my best friend. I love my mouth so much. Mother would use just amazing. She sent me flowers. She sent me you close in a box. Come on you. Tell me come downstairs from break-up and could a little pretty ring on my hand to let me know you know. Listen you have to love yourself. You have to know yourself so that you are not waiting for someone else to determine your value right. You have to already know it. And it's on so grateful to kinds of things that my mother gave me. So by the time i went to college. He more on these enormous expectations. They were so enormous. And you know. I was raised like love. Peace drawing and that was not cool as sought malcolm x. Let's when i went to college now when. I was in high school when i was going to summer. Camp all kinds of stuff matter right because our people's parents also a did great things and so when i went to college out of my mother's home out of her protective wing. Some engineer toe protective way. Oh my gosh. People chasing on campus mexico strategy. Why did you tell me. And i was like. Oh now i call my sister you know. I said i'll tell like what am i supposed to do. Because this was a lot of pressure zone to pass the test to be malcolm. X's daughter you already are. You are as good enough. And that's something that we can use just in life you already are you already are and these words are going to help someone that feel like. They have to feel like. I know people whose parents are ministers pastors as well and they feel like they have to do that or mom is a doctor. I better go to medical school to you. Know but you are filling me up because you're talking about the impact and the importation that your mother gay to you. She built you to be or poured in you to be strong confident and like you said you already know who you are. You already know your father's daughter. Your mothers daughters like does my dna degi check my birth certificate to even see but the power in the statement. You already are. That's right and you know it doesn't happen just like that. But when i look back at my mother just really amazing woman with all that she had gone through as the wife of malcolm x. Wife suzanne challenged the government that was historically unjust to be That she was still so kind loving and what she did is she made sure that her sex daughters come on tell it thick the i walk six daughters. And let me tell you. My father was like almost six five six foot five. My mum recalling five nine and they had six tall over daughters. Yes and you know. My mother made sure that we learned about the significant contributions that women made to the world's the significant contributions that islam made to the world and the significant contributions that people of the asa condi- astra people first world lands. People you to indigenous people made to the world so we grew up as a really solid sense of ourselves. Our identity was attacked. And i think that is extremely important. You know we look at our education curriculum. Look look at what our children are learning. They're not learning anything good about themselves right and and and so i might be jumping ahead a bit but you know when we think of slavery for example Right now sake about just the generational trauma to live like that your entire life right the your entire life and so do you feel we are seeing that generational trauma play out more in. This generation should be more of this generation that it was more in the previous generations. Okay because today. Look at this. Look at these marches. The protests at the demonstrations that happened people went to the streets. Yes a ma organized in fifty states and the us in eighteen countries of rod. You know people black white. Red green kirpal african asian It was all about humanity. Yes they said. Black lives matter right. Now we're because we're isolating ourselves. Quarantine global pandemic. We're forced to watch these brutal killings of innocent people. You know there's just so many directions we can take this race so so many directions we can take is because now i'm wondering since you're we are talking about the movement of black lives matter. Do you think had it not been for the work and legacy of your father mother. Would we be here today or would we have been in power to speak as we do now. Would you have been as empowered threat. You know as an educator right it's funny that you say that because that's what my father did for us you know. Keep a a shot treatment right. He let us know. Look if someone is doing these horrific scenes to your wives to children if they're blowing up churches and your children died. What are you going to do. You're nothing but a cia right. That was that was like shock treatment so that we can say all we. We do have the freedom to protect our family. Yes you have the freedom to do these things so. I think that it was good. I mean listen. My father is quoted fifty point seven thousand times per hour social media. Guess aris evidence that young people want to know the truth about malcolm x. right about now comex. They're looking for leaders. Who are wise at who speak truth and we know malcolm spoke truce truce timeshare did he sure. Did i mean when you talk about the knife that's put in nine inches and whether you pull it out six inches. It's still a wound. Still address the wound whether you keep it in their pull it. It still a wound less address that right so my father said if you if you take a knife and you put it in my back nine n. You're only pull it out six inches. The knife is still on my back. Come on that's what i was getting to. Yes through life was still in my back. So let's pull the knife all the way out the wound that's left made because look at what happened at how long slavery lasted and if we're going to control the narrative that we can say instead of slaves you don't our our ancestors about we say had it not been for those refined. Dusk is advocate anna digits people who cultivated this land and turned into a land of milk and honey. No one would have the opportunity to call. The united states of america. Leader of the free world are home. No that's what happens when we control our narratives and not think that we can sit back and let someone else control it again. And i feel like the only way we can control. Our narrative is to get educated about it. Let's get educated about it first. And then i think for us. I know we tell other. Racists specifically white don't just gloss over our wounds and just don't say i don't see color we're all unit. We're all let's come united no. We can't go over our wounds because let's really see what slavery did to us. Let's see what it did. Let's recognize what it did. I think it's the way to get over a loss or trauma don't you. There are certain steps that you have to do to in order to do so and one of those things is definitely acknowledging accepting and say okay. I'm facing it can. What are the steps. Now that i need to do to move forward and heal. Yes that's right and if we weren't taking a step further come on logs karma examined me. Let's examine you. what is it about. You have to turn me into a slave in the manner that you did. What is it about you that had to turn into a criminal and the manner that you did so. It's not looking at us man exam. What people workforce to change. What if white people were forced to. Jim rome because we are always making the adjustment. We've had to always make an adjustment yet and listen. you know. i hate to say this. But i don white friends you know so. It's not the same where you know. All white people a one way. All people are went way. But we're talking about assists right Weekly people that we seemed in our white house. You know the insurrectionists is that what. they're called the insurrection. I mean oh come on. This kind of mentality exists so lesson look at us. That's a you why you know what is it that causes you to do these kinds of things and knowing that you can get away with it or you can do the same thing and then when we have an uprising. Just a march. We're caught thugs. We didn't brush the capitol building. I don't even know if it was ever thought. Could we know what would have happened to us. It had been bloodshed everywhere. Have you ever noticed how some people always seem to have it so good all the time. They just always seem to have the best luck. I could be rolling with my cousin and it seems like everywhere we go. She always seems to find a parking spot out front or you know. I have a girlfriend who ages. She dates them pretty nice looking man. I'm like okay. You know serta sheriff. The wealth here now good. Things shouldn't only favor one or two people an. At and t. Gets this so they're making a big change and giving all of their customers both new and existing the same great deals now. I think this is huge. Now whether you been with a t and t ten years or ten minutes or just thought about switching then go ahead and visit eighteen t com slash best deals to learn more. Just go into the store or go online and figure it out restrictions apply. Hey everybody it's michelle. Williams host of checking in with michelle williams pepsi is proud to partner with the black effect. Podcast network bringing together. Some of the most influential and trusted voices like mine and black halter for necessary conversations around topics like social justice news mental health but also pop culture sports and comedy featuring black created produced and hosted. Podcast just like the one. You're listening to now. The black affect embodies pepsi's ongoing commitment to amplify a black voices fortify black communities and be a part of progress that includes investing more than four hundred million dollars over the next five years to address issues of inequality and create opportunity. Pepsi will use this money to expand. Their black manager populations invest in black owned small businesses. Form community impact grants and so much more pepsi's partner of the black podcast network as we continue to educate enlighten and entertain listeners. Just like you please forgive me because it's like i. I feel when your parents say to respect. Your elders are in great people that have gone before you feel like i'm not even supposed to just because saying how do you feel your father malcolm x. I feel like i'm supposed to put a handle in front of that. But how do you think he would have responded today. I feel like you're doing it for him. How would he would respond it personally. I think why so. Many people fifty three point. Seven thousand people terms amount mets. Because now they are realizing what he had this profound reaction towards the realizing that he didn't just walk around. You know talking like this. He was reacting to something that happening and clearly what he was reacting to the same thing that's happening today and that is the reason why they the the reason that they turned to him and my father said that it would be this generation of young leaders who recognize that. Those in power have misused power and demand change and that they're willing to do the necessary work to ensure that. This change happens newsman Yeah he was prophetic in that sense. Yes sure and you know. He was so young michelle. He was gunned down at thirty nine so when the world he was in his late twenties. You know so. That was a very young man and people. Say okay changing. He evolve evolved and he should have marita. He read everything more than i can ever even think about reading but he read consistently rank consistently and that is what my new book. The awakening malcolm x. Yes yes all over the place no. It's okay because they're they're y'all there is a flow and y'all i do know that this book came out and we are to talk about this book but i just please forgive me if i didn't get to it sooner because yes. I do have questions about the awakening malcolm x. and deathly wanting to know the moments of your own discovery that you had of writing it you know. I teach at john. Jay college of criminal justice in new york city and i have this the stats we all know that because of age even as thirteen all of the work that she's done on criminal justice but we know that there are three million people in our nation's president today and while only thirty two percent of our united states population are people of color fifty six percent of the incarcerated. Population are people of color now. Why on earth is happening right and and twenty twelve. The united states spent eighty one billion tax. Payer dollars on correctional facilities not education not after school programming on books or any thanks in this correction facility. But we're talking about places to house all of these human bodies and since nineteen seventy the incarcerated population having creased by seven hundred eighty percents. And this is what's happening to our young people. And so. When i thought about my father i know when he stepped flip the first time he was a young adolescent also that he busted been horrified. Never think about the humanity of of these prisoners vindicates as though it was an opportunity to also look at the humanity live. These young people or elders were in the wrong At the in the right place at the wrong time and held a me Conditions that that aren't made for human survival his man you know and i so i discovered so many great things about my father that he was star debater you know at the colony and that he studied the dictionary not so that he can learn how to write or learn how to read but so that he could no the etymology the root words the origin of these words so when asked about a particular topic he can understand the words that were being used. And so you a lot of great things that i discovered about my father that for me was just so wonderful and to show. That was already smart young ban all the things that we saw. Malcolm has a adults that he was a lot of those things already while while is used because his parents. What about your own personal discoveries. Where you're like. I'll wow no wonder why i like to read this because my father read this or i'm sure there are years of discovery personally. Was there anything new within you now. What you discovered about him but anything you discovered about you in writing and compiling you know things. My father was just so compassionate. And you know seeing that during covid. We didn't know we were going to live. We didn't know what is this. What is going to happen. When is it going to come under my door. When is it going to be my time to go right so here. We are questioning our talented. I remember there was this Gentleman from california. Who was a you a film director. And we were talking about doing distill and there was another gentleman in japan. Who was a biographer. And he was doing a biography on the same time period so the three of us were on this phone call and we were all talking about My father during this time period this period of his life. And i was just like epiphany you guys. We're gonna live because it. There's no coincidence that will each masses is working on this information of my father slice during this time period and the gentlemen in japan. All this amazing information yet the files from someone else's my father's file somehow just are missing but in someone else's files he found koichi that my father were found a koran. You know that my father reference and and so it's just a lot of these really wonderful saves. I know that. I always web thing that i could never unforgettable is to be or not to be whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings. It narrows of outrageous fortune to take arms against a sea of troubles by opposing. I i know that that monologue soliloquy and i learned it in high school. But i know so many other things in high school but nothing about that you know that speaks to the urgency of participating in injustice right to be or not to be going to be a part of the problem. Or you're going to be a part of the solution and that's it so just always resonated with me and so of course when i got a little older my father's speech that he did at oxford debate he he ends it with that. Beautiful shakespeare excerpts. And so i just always thought that was really wonderful and that's always been where my father's favorite speeches. Yeah correct me. If i'm wrong a few moments ago it seemed like you were getting a little emotional and choked up there. I saw some other interviews of you especially when you're talking about the net flicks documentary who killed malcolm x. I noticed the time or two where you got emotional for sure and obviously that is okay. What do you do in moments. Do you just let it go. How do you take care of you in moments like that. Well you know this. Is my office really great photographs of my mother of my father and of people who are close to my parents as A maya angelou. Auntie kereta yang. Y'all she gets to say no. Is she for real. She gets to say on kereta. We'd just say. Mrs she gets to say auntie masek listen. A young young people got to up our circle. Okay all right. But i take heredity. Yes it was amazing artist arthur. Sometimes and you know. And i just grateful that i had them in my life where i think about our ancestors. Just great folks you that. They did all that they did for us. You know we think about our ancestors on the content you know. Scholar scientists astronomers farmers. You know the answers grateful and so I take that time to go inside of me. And now that i'm okay irate. Yance a grateful to my father. Just grateful you lots of gratitude. I even feel it through this phone. Call that you definitely have their presence surrounding you protecting you loving you and that. That is the place where you can go when you probably feel overwhelmed. My podcast checking in the foundation of it was about mental health. And just wanting to know your thoughts on an self care at your mental health. I know you have a safe place where you can go. Even if it's just places of your office What are your thoughts on the state of mental health today. Gosh i think is so important to have a therapist to have someone that you can go to with with all of your thoughts with the challenges that you have you know even when you have dreams right. I think that it's important to have someone that you can release share the thoughts that you have an especially looking at all of what we experience things that we don't understand you know. I think it's absolutely. I had as erebus and whenever i felt a little overwhelmed i would always reach out and say can i come and see you. Yeah absolutely. i think it's extremely word. The documentary who killed malcolm x. I don't know if a has an investigation be been reopened since it's aired and then what do you do. If you have anger or confusion what do you do. What is ill jasa. do orders. i- anger or confusion. Because there's a lot there would i talk yuk ac- my hands wrote because it's stuff going to the east to the west are. I'm meeting the documentary is. There's a lot of theories. There's a lot of intelligent perspectives. There could be this. Could be back. Gotta invoke some confusion right. I think that's where you have to find your your own balance. I know when. I found myself in a difficult space. My mother had passed away. And there were a lot of interviews and things at you know i had never. I didn't let my life in that manner. I didn't open myself up to be. You know critiques on Larger scale. And i remember go traveling to the south. You know i was trying to think. Like where am i going to go and get fortified. How am i going to florida. Fine village and the only thing i can think of was go to the south drive to the south and get the ancestors spear you know go and seen where they spent all of yards. You know things like that. My thing is how. However i found myself a tight space that i know my ancestors were in a tighter. Slates and yet they thrived. And so i just you know qualify ancestors get that love get that strengths and feel ba- shields and i'm okay because it is in us it anew it's literally in your blood literally in your dna to keep going but even those of us that are deemed strong sometimes. It can feel overwhelming. Sometimes it's like. I don't know about you but there many times i said you know i'm gonna go work at autozone. I feel like i'm more well versed in selling windshield wiper fluid. Now i know that's not my destiny purpose in the calling and i know just fatigue speaking here. You know like listen you know. I don't mean all that other stuff. Yeah we understand and unsure your your listeners also understands of course when we see you hear your voice realized of okay and then try go remind you know mean to whom much is given definitely much required all know to continue carrying this legacy. You have to do it you have to do to. I'm not even gonna say eliminate fatigue because that's part of just being natural you get tired you know and but some people do get tired to the point of they want to give up and they actually do give up and it's like there are more people counting on you to keep going and counting on your yes to say i'm gonna keep going. I am going to keep going. You know when. I look at my father's life for me. This is not the end all be all. We are here for a very short time. We go to the next place. We have to make sure while we're here we do what's necessary. That's why it's important check. What's your value cyst. Who are you. Do you like yourself you willing to compromise to have friends you know like so. It's really knowing who you are and knowing what your values are and not compromising for the sake of having someone or something in your life and that could eliminate the fatigue and the wanting to give up. Because i don't know why you're saying that something just came on me as like how dare you okay. You tie your ticket ten minute nap get up there. Get back in the door to sit out because you're tired. How dare you when you think of malcolm x. When you think of miss betty shabazz. When you even think of when you said auntie. Corrado of course we're going to think of martin luther king junior you know and that just lets me know at it. Just warm a heart when you called her. Auntie kereta because i wanted to know along with martin luther king has there been any movement in creating a national holiday for your father malcolm x. You know yes and people keep asking and talking about it and I really would not be surprised by happy. And i think that when we understand that we're talking about people when we talk about the government that's a body of people when we talk about the police departments that's a body of people and so new people come by people can be battering forms right. there are eight billion. Six hundred million people in the world. Eighty percent are people of color. And so just imagine if we had more face and we were better informed better educated. He's the things that we can accomplish. Yeah we think that change can't happen and that means we're not willing to work riding at means we're not willing to do the work but there was something else that you said that i wanted to comment on. I think about our ancestors that even when we go back to the continent right before slavery existed more even here in this country before slavery existed. Because we know that black people people of color were thriving here and they were thriving on the continent When we look at the history prior to christopher columbus we see that this is what life was about scholarship right wisdom and universal spirit and so it was about giving back doing something in your community and your society before you passed on to the next place and when you did pass away it was a celebration in you. Were going to the next place Because you live your life the way you're supposed to so it's like these kinds of values which sounds kind of corny. But they're real and at the end of our day. We're on our deathbed because it's inevitable that that's going to happen when two people usually talk about. Those are the kinds of things that you know. You make sure that they're intact for yourself while you're yes. I just want to say how happy i am to be on the black effect network of hosted a lot of impactful interesting guest and a lot of my guests had a point of view that maybe something i never thought of these our voices in messages that need to be heard and share and i've seen firsthand that listening does lead to change. All i know is that. At and t. Understands this to and for a long time their customers have been saying that it is not fair that new customers get better deals than existing customers so recently. At and t. Started listening and they have made a big change. At and t. Is giving all of their customers both new and existing the same great deals. It doesn't matter if you've been with. At and t. Foot ten years ten minutes or ten seconds. Everybody pays the same. And that's the power of making your voice her. We all know the typical service experience. This is a pretty big deal for a t and t to start hearing out their customers so salute to. At and t. for learning and wanting to change for the better visit at and t. dot com slash best deals restrictions. Apply at state farm. Everything we do is focused on building strong neighborhoods together. We know that a better world tomorrow starts with a strong neighborhood today. We have functioned on the belief that being a good neighbor means being good stewards of the neighborhoods we serve. It is not enough to simply do business with people you must also do good alongside them for. It's the right thing to do. You know i can think of a neighbor that lives across the street from my mother and they seem to always be there from mother whether it was to help out with my father or to shovel snow or help my mom start her snowblower. My mother is always calling me about something. Good that her neighbor across the street have done for her and that just lets me know. We have to be good neighbors so with over. Nineteen thousand local agents across the country. State farm is committed to being good neighbours wherever our customers find themselves in their communities. Right around the corner when you need us like a good neighbor state farm as bayer. She has so much. That's just made me literally flail back in my seat. I hope y'all are taking in this wisdom. I don't see her doing this often. And i am definitely appreciative of your time. The words of your father have changed so many lives as we can speak of so many people regardless of what some persons beliefs are religious beliefs. Are i know they were some change. My household because of the words agree or father. What is something that you can say to my listeners. In the community that can leave us with and hope right now in this difficult time. I'd have a twofold but just in words of hope and inspiration. Hope the well. Let's see you know. There is a multi racial movement. That's driving our nation towards a more civilized face multiracial multi gender Units assume fetig identity is being born and we wanted to get on that train. Our society is moving forward bigotry and all its ugly is losing a new era has yet to divine itself and i think the lesson for our young people especially is that cheaters lose moral character winds and that lack power women power is not exclusionary. It simply says we're coming to cable. And i saw some one quote ed said i don't wanna see i'm taking the table or something to that effect her with the new generation you know. Say look you know. I am here and if you don't see me i will make sure you you understand a new recognize. You know all of what. I should participate in math as well. Yeah there are so many calls. I've heard people say the see. Like i brought the table. Right oh my gosh. I'm just sitting here listening to you. And i am intrigued by your belief. How big your belief is. And when i say your believed because we have to definitely increase our level of belief walk in something every day what you declare will happen okay onto your just a few seconds of how you believe and how you believe big 'cause i know you believe big asa and you know i believe big because of how i was raised. The reason that i do the work that i do is because i am so grateful that my education was intact and i had said something like we need a better education so that we understand that african american history is american history tower of slavery and the subsequent massacres in walls black wall street in tulsa oklahoma at rosewood florida for exam one high school. Us history classes to be as american as the boston tea party. We would understand that. Our education is then based on historical truths right has physicians would understand necessity for reputation and we would have the opportunity to teach our children a truth and human compassion and if in world history the truth that africa is the cradle of the most advanced civilization that ever existed mankind than americans would appreciate the complexity of lack civilizations and understand that this is where all of human life began. And so it's important that we know these things about okay right. It's about humanity and and i think that not only are young people but the our parents write these smart forward adults. We want to make sure that our young people are learning truce historical facts Passion loves south la. You know all these things are extremely important. Thank you so much self love. We hear your strength. We know your legacy. We know where you come from. Give us one practical because some of us are nosy. Give us one smidge. Did of what you do in your day for self love. what do i do for self for. This is just corny Work out as she loves a good good. You're absolutely beautiful. Gorgeous as ever and uc l. Listen listen listen. All i know is you gave me hope. Not hope and inspiration. Get a physical dictionary. Y'all put it alongside the rest of the books that you read because now you're talking about the dictionaries and the poetry you and your father have read everything that you can quote. I come from years of reading. I'm years of learning learning Definitely should that's gotta be part of self love. How about that but something in your day like okay for me today. I made a grilled cheese sandwich. Yes i got. The skillet made a grilled cheese with gutter not not fancy margin and no but my uncle's a physician. He told us we using real better saw. Thanks alkyl real butter. So that's what i did today. It was so good. But i know self care is more than going to the spa and i know self care is what you feed yourself even what you say to yourself. Who's in your environment in. Which you're meditating on but if you care to share what is something that you do for sack talk to my parents. I talked to my parents. I talked to god. I talked to my ancestors when i mean you know support. I'm like i mean. Where else can you go. Where else can you really get where you can trust. You can trust those areas that you just mentioned although that safe and trusted and true place where you go pass. Does she eat ice cream sandwich. Well you know what i make. I make an. I couldn't wait to have it because it also gives you a burst of energy. I make in my vita saying that vitamix blender nothing I put organic mango. I cut up the mango. I cut up either grapes or kiwi. All organic yep errands a banana and people. You know it's not you know it's natural sugar right. It gives you a burst of energy. And it's also it's good for it is good for you. You named every yes. I love all those fruits. You name the banana gives it the right amount of sweetness because people be sleeping on bananas but you put a banana. Spinach kale is going to give you the nice amount of sweetness jahmai cookbooks gonna come on in about eight years. Well no i'm just playing great just playing. You have been a light an absolute joy. This is such a special podcast. And i am excited now to talk to alex and find an address to send a paid postage and wondering if you will sign my book. The awakening of mix. And you'll sign it for me and sit right on back. Your heard that right. But she's the world hearted anything for you. Wanna share this something that my father wrote. He said bat black musician. He picks up his horn in starts blowing some sounds that he never thought of before he improvises he created. It comes from within. It's his soul. It's that soul music. It's the only area on. The american scene with a black man has been free to create and he has mastered. He has shown that he can come up with something. Nobody ever saw it off on. His horn will likewise he can do the same thing. If given intellectual independence he can come up with a new philosophy he can invent a society a social system that is different from anything that exists or has ever existed and you know god bless him but what he saying is whatever. It is any one of us what to accomplish. We can because for so long we'd been living with these restrictions discrimination limited right. We've been living in in a box. You know we can't go here. We can't do that and so when it came to music. No one could say to us. No you can't blow the horn that way. No you can't have this kind of feeling. Oh no you better hold back on. You know so. We were able to just be ourselves with his horn. And so now that we understand. We are no longer a enslaved and we would no longer brainwash. We are free to exist right. This multi ratio kind of society than that. It's driving our the nation forward now that we can accomplish whatever we believe we can. And so that. I think is extremely important We are free to create. We are free to be. We are free to live. We are free to learn. We are free to love so of y'all are listening. Write that down. As she was reading that i closed my eyes to take it all in and just in envisioning everything that i am free to do. And a lot of things that we are free to do is because of the words and the life of malcolm x. Ilyasova thank you so much for being with me today. Such a pleasure. I have to tell you. I really enjoyed this and i was actually looking forward to this on when when alex. I asked me you know. Do you wanna do Michelle williams podcasts cast. I said absolutely info. Because i knew it wasn't going to be anything really heavy but you know that we could just communicate with one another and and fellowship ship and have somaly unfortified -olutely Where can we follow you. And y'all y'all have to get the book the awakening of malcolm x. It is new. You've gotta get it it's powerful. I've got the i book or e book or whatever you wanna call it as well but that physical books should be getting to you soon as we get that address of where to get it to. Where can we find you. And or what's next i. Well i am on social media matt ilyasova shabazz and. You don't have to send me a book. I'll send you will give your information or i'll send it to alex however you know we're going to send it and i'll just send you. The book will be. I'm so honored to do that. Why get away of you. Get your blessing but listen. I agree. I believe in supporting people. I mean new york times bestselling authors. I really believe in supporting in supporting with my with the coinage. Okay that is clicking the add to cart that's clicking the checkout buttons and putting your form of payment in that in that line so but thank you thank you so much either way. I know we will be in communication once again. I appreciate you for coming on in for checking in. Just you guys have done few podcast lately but none have had my palm sweating my feets sweating. I had royalty that. I just spoke to. I am truly overwhelmed. Truly blessed truly strengthened enlightened. I feel smarter. Don't feel little smarter is well. That's why is so important to have somebody in your crew or somebody that you can talk to monthly twice a month that high ins your level of awareness that heightens your level of knowledge of in what you think you already know into. Also go outside of what you think you should learn and know and when i told her earlier my father would be so proud of this interview. 'cause all he won it for us was to learn about people different religions different beliefs and how at the end of the day. Were all the same. I grew up in a very in a pentecostal background and we weren't necessarily taught to read other books outside. Let me take that back. We were taught to read other books but as far as religious not necessarily books outside of the bible. But i know for a fact my dad would be proud of this interview and that part where she begins to read about her of something that her father wrote some closure is taking in and when he's like that was the only thing we had. That was the only thing that we were free to create but now we have so much other freedoms we have freedom to learn. We have freedom to love. We still have the freedom to create but less really take in and take advantage of the freedom to learn and the freedom of love. I am just absolutely blown away. Just taken aback by this amazing beautiful conversations. She saw grounded in his absolutely amazing. How pray all injure have enjoyed this episode as much idea recording. Thank you for checking in with michelle williams. Sisters checking in with michelle. Williams is a production of iheartradio and the black effect for more podcast from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows pepsi is proud to partner with the black effect podcast network bringing together. Some of the most influential entrusted voices like me and black culture for necessary conversations around topics like social justice news mental health but also pop culture sports and comedy featuring black created produced and hosted podcast. Just like the one. You are listening to now. The black effect embodies pepsi's ongoing commitment to amplifying black voices fortify communities and be a part of progress. Pepsi is proud to partner with the black podcast network bringing together. Some of the most influential entrusted voices and black culture for necessary conversations around topics like social justice news mental health but also pop culture sports and comedy featuring black created produced and hosted podcast. Just like the one. You are listening to now. The black affect embodies pepsi's ongoing commitment to amplifying black voices fortify communities and be a part of progress.
Police unions and Supreme Court shield Minneapolis cops.
"Coming up on five minute news. Police Union and Supreme Court Shield Minneapolis cops. Study of malaria. Drugs for Corona virus retracting. And US ranks twenty fourth in the world on environmental performance. It's Friday June five. I'm Anthony Davis? Long before the death of George Floyd last week, efforts to overhaul the way policing is done in Minneapolis repeatedly fizzled in the face of a powerful eight hundred member union that championed military style police tactics. The unions Labor contract with the city is a formidable roadblock to citizens seeking disciplinary action after aggressive encounters with police led by Lieutenant Bob Crawl the unions vocal and haunt charging president for five years. Offices rarely face sanctions. Analysis of Complaints Against Minneapolis police officers from the past eight years, shows that nine out of every ten accusations of misconduct were resolved without punishment or intervention aimed at changing in offices behavior. The Minneapolis Union contract is not unusual. Dozens of other contracts across the United States contain provisions that stymie efforts to hold cops accountable for violence and other alleged abuses, compounding the challenge citizen, seeking justice, a US legal doctrine called qualified immunity, an investigation last month found that the contempt created and reinforced in a series of US Supreme Court rulings increasingly shields from civil liability offices who are accused of using excessive force. You have immune police officers who are beyond punishment because of their union contract as well as constitutional law said Gloria Browne Marshall a professor at John. Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. That combination leads to an arrogance of a police officer who can kill a man in broad daylight while being taped and believe he can get away with it. The Union contract and the qualified immunity doctrine play a role in bouldering. Some police officers to commit abuses. Legal scholars say, but they don't always provide a shielding cases that trigger criminal charges or unleash national media scrutiny in A. A letter to union members on Monday Federation President Crawl wrote that he was working with the unions Labor attorneys to get the offices accused of killing George Floyd reinstated. They were terminated without due process crawl wrote among the contract provisions that impede efforts to discipline. Abusive cops is one forbids the department from including allegations of misconduct in an officer's personal file unless the accusations result in discipline. Crawl has himself been the subject of ten misconduct complaint since two thousand thirteen. The records don't disclose the allegations against him. None of the complaints resulted in discipline. One remains open. Several authors of a large study that has raised safety concerns about malaria drugs for Corona virus patients have retracted the report saying independent reviewers. We're not able to verify information that's been widely questioned by other scientists. Thursdays retraction in the months. It involved a May twenty to report on hydroxy, chloroquine and chloroquine drugs long used for preventing or treating malaria, but who safety effectiveness for covid. Nineteen are unknown. Even, though the Lancet report was not a rigorous test, the observational study had a huge impact because of its size, reportedly involving more than ninety six thousand patients and six hundred seventy one hospitals on six continents. Its conclusion that the drugs tides to a higher risk of death and heart problems leads to the World Health Organization to temporarily stop the use of hydroxy chloroquine in a study it is leading and for French officials to stop allowing its use in hospitals there. Dozens of scientists questioned irregularities and improbable findings in the numbers and other authors said earlier this week. There's an independent audit would be done. The US is far behind other industrialized nations on environmental performance, and now ranks twenty fourth in the world, according to new analysis by Yale and Columbia universities. Denmark came in first place, followed by Luxembourg and Switzerland, the United Kingdom ranked fourth. The findings come as the trump administration has continued to weaken environmental protections in a quest to relax rules on. And expand fossil fuel development, which threatens to put the country even further behind its peers. Donald Trump has called himself a big believer in the environment and insisted he wanted the cleanest water and the cleanest air. The index ranks one hundred and eighty countries on thirty two performance indicators across eleven, categories, covering environmental health and ecosystem vitality. The US is near the back of the pack for developed nations. The US ranked fifteenth on climate. It is currently the second biggest contribution to the climate crisis after China. Over time it has put more heat trapping gases into the atmosphere than any other nation, but trump has consistently questioned climate science and the severity of the problem. The US did better on air quality ranking sixteenth, but the authors warned those rankings could fall. Trump officials have rescinded protections or declined to tighten them based on new research. You can subscribe to five minute news with your preferred podcast. APP Oscar Smart Speaker or enable five minute news as your Amazon Alexa. FLASH BRIEFING SKIN. Please leave a review on. The podcasts or Amazon. Five minute news is an independent production covering politics, inequality, health and climate, delivering unbiased, verified and truthful will use. Daily!
July 20, 2020: Eddie Tipton Found Guilty
"Today is Monday July. Twentieth, Twenty Twenty on this day in two thousand fifteen Eddie Tipton was found guilty of rigging the lottery in Iowa, he'd used his position inside the industry to cheat the system and get rich quick until he made a mistake and the scheme fell apart. Welcome to today and true crime podcast original today recovering the conviction of Eddie Tipton a former information security director for the Multi State Lottery Association. Who rigged the lottery system for years? Let's go back to a De Moines Iowa courtroom on the morning of Monday July. Twentieth Two Thousand Fifteen. It. was being called the biggest lottery scam ever a two thousand ten jackpot worth over fourteen million dollars had been fraudulently one prosecutors believed and fifty two year old Eddie Tipton was at the center of it all as the jury filed into the courtroom tip didn't scan their faces. Did they believe him? The trial had lasted a week and up. Until this final moment, it could still go either way beyond the courthouse. Local media watched the case with fascination. It seemed so improbable that someone could rig the lottery. Adam Scott Wont an expert in digital forensics and Cybersecurity from John Jay College of Criminal Justice pointed out that the prosecution was faced with the curious task of proving their argument without any actual evidence linking Tipton to the crime. The heart of the case was a piece of surveillance footage taken at the moment, the winning ticket was purchased. The man who bought the ticket was hooded, which meant his face was almost completely obscured from every angle, but you could hear his voice Iowa assisted district. Attorney Rob Sand argued that it belonged to Eddie Tipton. An employee for the multi state, Lottery Association or M USSL Tipton was prohibited from buying lottery tickets at all, but his wrongdoing didn't stop there. Send argued that Tipton used his position as information security director for 'EM USFL to rig the game in his favor. He didn't know exactly how, but he had circumstantial evidence. That suggested it had been done. It wasn't just the surveillance footage. There were also incriminating phone records that linked Tipton to several. Conspirators Sand used these bits and pieces to draw sketchy picture of how his suspect orchestrated the crime from inside M. US l.. He hoped the jury saw it clearly enough to put Tipton behind bars. Meanwhile tipped. INS lawyer argued that the man seen in the surveillance footage was not Eddie. That man had a beard. He pointed out at at the time. His client was clean shaven. Additionally, the defense attorney pointed out that the prosecution's case was based entirely on speculation and circumstance. Indeed there was no evidence of any malicious codes or malware contained in the lottery software. Perhaps it was lost in routine updates in the years since two thousand ten, perhaps the Code Tipton used was self deleting, or perhaps as the defense argued, there had been no code in the first place. So as Eddie Tipton stood to hear the jury's verdict. He may have held onto hope that he would soon be a free man. But it wasn't to be during their six hour deliberation, the jury had watched the footage of the winning ticket over and over until there was a consensus Eddie. Tipton was guilty. Tipton was sentenced to ten years behind bars for the crime. The maximum penalty the judge could impose, but tipped in time in front of a judge was far from over his first conviction opened the floodgates over the next few months he was accused of rigging jackpots in Colorado, Kansas and Oklahoma then claiming the prizes through proxies. The new charges included racketeering money laundering theft by fraud and computer crimes over the next two years Eddie Tipton and his accomplices were in and out of courtrooms, as prosecutors made their case, but then in June of two thousand seventeen. It all came to a shocking and. Tipton entered a courtroom and finally came clean. He told the judge exactly what he did. Coming up Eddie Tipton Years Long Con-. High listeners. It's Vanessa. We all know that navigating young adulthood can be a wild ride. For Social Media Star Addison Ray. It's something she couldn't do without her mom Sheri Nicole in their entertaining new podcast. Original Series Mama knows best. Addison goes to her mom for advice on all things growing up want to hear more here's. And Sherry to fill you in. Hey Oh. I'm Addison Way. Her Mom Sherry and every Monday on our new show. Mom knows best. We're going to get real about all the ups and downs of growing up finding love and going viral, we have a bunch of awesome topic signed up like living with your parents dating during pandemic, and so much more, and since I know best y'all know some advice to share. Okay, but do you really know best is the name of the show are I I think we can let them be. The judge of that new episodes of mom knows best air every Monday exclusively on spotify so follow, and you can listen for free. Now back to the story. In two thousand Seventeen Eddie Tipton cut a deal with prosecutors and an exchange confessed in detail to his crimes. What he revealed was a years long scam, involving lotteries in states across the USA. In two thousand five, a colleague made a joking offhand comment to Tipton asking if he thought about making the computer systems, spit outnumbers. The Tipton. Himself chose Tipton had been working as a security director for the multi state lottery. Association or M USFL for around two years. At that stage. The company handled the day to day operations of member lotteries. In truth, it was a job. He was surprised to land given his felony conviction for participation in a burglary. When he was a teen, he disclosed his history during the hiring process, but it wasn't an issue for 'em US l.. You wrote the Software Eddie's colleague told him and just like that. The seed was planted soon after Eddie inserted two lines of code into the program responsible for randomly generating numbers at each drawing the new lines allowed him to predict the numbers on three dates each year may twenty seventh November twenty third and December twenty nine. The Code couldn't tell him exactly. which numbers were going to come up? There was still an element of chance, but the hack significantly improved the odds in his favor. A regular person playing the same lottery had a one in five million chance of winning. Tipton odds were one in two hundred. On November twenty, third, two, thousand, five, Eddie's numbers came up in a four point five million dollar draw in Colorado his brother Tommy purchased the winning ticket and gave it to a friend who collected the prize money. The friend kept ten percent of the winnings and handed the rest back over to Tommy. The plan worked so well that naturally. Eddie wanted to do it all again, but he felt conflicted during his confession. Tipton revealed that after his first successful scam, he. He pointed out the gap in the US L. Security System. It was a flaw. He told his bosses they could allow for someone to rig the drawings. Of course he didn't tell them that he already had. He didn't want to end up in jail. He just wanted to remove the temptation. His warning went up the chain of command, but nothing was ever done to address the lax security so Tipton was free to repeat the scheme again soon enough he did. Over the next decade, the software tipped created to randomly generate numbers for drawings was replicated on as many as seventeen state lottery systems working with 'em, Uso. And with it went his secret code triggering predictable number sequences on those three special days every year. It was too tempting to resist Tipton with various accomplices, including his brother Tommy purchased winning lottery tickets with collective prizes of around twenty four million dollars. The prizes came from Colorado Oklahoma Wisconsin, Iowa and Kansas, and for years they got away with it until Tipton made one big mistake. He bought a ticket for himself. It's unclear why Tipton bought the ticket for himself, but there are a couple of possible reasons. Perhaps he couldn't find a willing accomplice this time, or maybe he was getting greedy and didn't want to have to cut anyone in on his winnings. The Jackpot was over fourteen million dollars and Tipton figured it was worth the risk so in December of two thousand ten. He entered a convenience store in Iowa. Iowa and purchased a lottery ticket. He knew was a winner, but for the next year as Tipton struggled to figure out how to collect his winnings, the prize remained unclaimed organizers of the lottery made attempts to find the winner, but Tipton remained silent, then in December of two thousand eleven just hours before the winnings were set to be forfeited, the winning ticket was presented at lottery headquarters in Dimona Moines. The ticket was presented by two lawyers who said they represented a trust based in Belize and here's where things went pear-shaped for Tipton. The lottery organizers requested information about the owner of the ticket, and declined to hand over the Jackpot until a name was given after a month of back and forth lawyers for the trust offered to donate the entirety of the Jackpot to charity, if their client could remain anonymous, but the for was rejected, the trust withdrew its claim to the prize and the Iowa Attorney General's office immediately announced an investigation. As the months ticked by Eddie. Tipton was no doubt no. Those nerves would have only increased in October of two thousand fourteen, when footage of him purchasing his winning lottery ticket was released to the public. In January of two thousand fourteen, following two years of investigation tipped in was arrested and charged with two counts of fraud over the two thousand ten lottery scam, following that conviction he was charged in relation to his earlier, rigged winnings, and spent several years wrapped up in legal proceedings. After, he made his confession Tipton was sentenced to up to twenty five years behind bars. His accomplices received lesser sentences, but most were required to pay restitution. At his sentencing, Eddie Tipton said that he regretted his actions and the number of people who were hurt as a result then again, he knew better than most that when it comes to the lottery, the odds are almost never in your favor. Thanks for listening to today in true crime I'm Vanessa Richardson. If you enjoyed today's episode, you might like our show. Con Artists where we dive into the lives and crimes of notorious men and women who conned themselves into notoriety today in true crime is a podcast original. You can find more episodes up today and true crime, and all other podcast originals for free on spotify not only does. Does spotify already have favorite music, but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like today and true crime for free from your phone, desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify. Just open the APP and type today in true crime in the search bar. We'll be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in True Crime. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original. It is executive produced by Max Cutler sound design by one Boorda with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Carly Madden and Joshua Kern this episode of today and true crime was written by Joel Callan with writing assistance by Nora between. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Hi again it's been ESA before we go. I wanted to remind you to check out the new parkhouse original series. Mama knows best every Monday. Join Social Media icon. Addison Ray as she goes to her mom Sheri Nicole for advice on all things growing up. It's entertaining, endearing and sometimes eye-opening. I think you'll really enjoy it follow. Mom knows best free and exclusively on spotify.
The Invisible Labor Inside Americas Lactation Rooms
"The invisible labor inside america's lactation rooms by matilda cohen. The longworth house lactation sweet is stately furnished with wood. Paneling and a patrician window curtain. It fits a refrigerator a sink. Tv and pumping stations equipped with hospital grade. Breast pumps armchairs shelves hangers tissues and wipes the sweet one of several created at the us house of representatives. Starting in two thousand. Seven under the impetus of nancy pelosi. The first female house speaker is a space of privilege in a country that does not guarantee mandatory paid leave after the birth or adoption of a child and where there is an intense pressure to breastfeed lactation rooms have multiplied in the last decade. The twenty ten affordable care act required health insurance plans to cover the cost of a breast pump and mandated companies with more than fifty employees to provide new mothers adequate spaces in which to express milk though not all lactating parents identify as women or mothers the majority do in her photo series and accompanying documentary both titled milk factory. Korean bots goes inside over thirty american lactation facilities and makeshift spaces for lactating mothers. Her photographs include cheerily. Decorated lounges re purposed office. Spaces prefabricated the lactation boiler rooms restaurant basements cafeterias trains and pop up tents. These are images of solitary rooms that take a collective power through their accumulation says botts seldom is any space simultaneously so utilitarian and emotionally charged. The collection serves as a testament to the widely varied working conditions of american mothers. The project started as a personal record of boxes early experiences. A mother when she photographed the oddly sparse room in which she pumped at the john jay college of criminal justice from there. She traveled across the country to take pictures of lactation facilities in other workplaces including a california farm. Airports various new york schools and julia tuck wiler prison for women. In alabama botts is images reflect the contradictions inherent in contemporary parenthood. The title milk factory underlines that lactation is a form of labor. Even if federal law conceptualize it as a break from work which employers are not required to compensate. Breastfeeding is not cost free. It can be painful requires time know-how and equipment and has an opportunity cost maternal and infant health advocate. Kimberly seals allers calculated that at a proposed minimum wage of fifteen dollars per hour. Lactating women would receive sixteen thousand two hundred dollars for six months of exclusive breastfeeding in practice. Sociologists phyllis rip young and mary noonan have shown that the longer women breastfeed the more severe and prolonged the earning losses they suffer. What does it mean when people are expected to breastfeed and yet do it in secluded multi user lactation rooms like the longworth how sweet the capital often double as communal spaces fostering a sense of camaraderie among new mothers in the capital lounge women from across the aisle mingle a rare opportunity in an era of intense divisiveness when cooperation is key to push for legislation benefiting families coincidentally the week butts was filming. Congress adopted the federal employees paid leave. Act which now offers twelve weeks of paid parental leave to approximately two point. One million federal workers but finished shooting milk factory days before the covid. Nineteen outbreak again. In the united states if lactation rooms arguably bring the home into the workplace for nonessential workers the pandemic had the reverse effect bringing the work place into the home the pandemic underscored the systemic failings and institutional barriers that largely affect women especially women of color and working parents and the need for policy change. Bots says it's an ideal moment to reimagine a more just way of living and working. Perhaps the next major parental leave reform will grow from discussions and coalitions forged in the capital and other lactation rooms. Nationwide many of boxes pictures and her work is featured at times as website.
Raising Joyful, Change-Making Girls with Janice Johnson Dias
"If you haven't heard about anchor let me tell you a little bit about it. It is the easiest way to make a podcast. I've just joined. And i can't tell you how much i love it. And here's a few reasons why it's free. It's super easy to create and record podcasts. Right from your computer. Literally anyone can do it. Anchor handles all of the distribution. All you have to do is record or upload your podcast and then they send it out to spotify and apple podcasts and everywhere else and get this anchor can help you get paid for podcasting without any minimum listener number. Everything you need to make your podcast is in one place at anchor. Download the free anchor app or go to anchor dot f. m. to get started. Hi i'm melissa lotto and this is sorry not sorry. I am so excited for this week's episode raising girls in a way that empowers them changes the world and it's one of the most important things we can do as parents this week. I am joined by dr. Denise johnson diana's author of the new book parent like it matters how to raise joyful change making girls parents and caregivers and educators can see that she's not some miracle. My friends were not bad parents. They were just doing what most parents do. Which is cautioning their daughters much more than they cautioned their sons. Why is it that raising our children is associated with so much anguish and so much confusion why is it that we are at sixes and sevens about the one thing. Human beings have been doing successfully for millennia to raise a happy healthy and hopeful child. It takes a family. It takes teachers. It takes it takes business people. It takes community leaders. It takes those who protect our health and safety. It takes all of us. Hi i'm dr denise johnson dice and i strongly believe that if you want to change the world you have to cultivate join yourself and parent like it matters. Sorry not sorry denise. I am so excited to have you here. And i want to dive into the book but i i'd love for my listeners. To just get sense of who you are. So can you tell us a little bit about your background and your work as sociologist as a professor. So i am a kid from jamaica. I was born in saint. John's bathe jamaica and grew up in a small town of four hundred and some odd people cover treats st mary and i lived. They are mostly with my grandmother and my cousins because my mother was a nanny of sorts in canada and i did not know my dad and i came to the united states to boston in nineteen eighty four. And since then. I went to college at brandeis. I was a high school teacher for a couple of years. Then i went to temple got my masters last went across the country to help mothers and institutions mothers. Who were facing substance abuse issues in also had children and trying to negotiate that space. I would go back to college and get a phd in sociology. And then have my own child. Eleven days before became a doctor. A that's amazing. And then i did my post. Doc work on public policy in michigan and since two thousand seven. I've been a college professor. At the city. University of new york john jay college of criminal justice and in two thousand and ten after doing a lot of community work across the country i formed my own organization called the grassroots community foundation and that has been life changing so it took everything that i'd done and everywhere that i've lived with my grandmother. My mother my brothers things that i studied and brought them all in one place and we have this bold mission which is to create a world where all girls grow up to be healthy women so now today i trained women and girls and institutions how we can become better at public health and how we can make social. Justice are norm in our lives. So that's really what's led me to this place. It's and what was it that sparked you to write this book. I mean you identify it as your life's work. It's my daughter of course. Isn't it always or kids. It's always our kids. So i never wanted to write a book. Even though i've written a dissertation some three hundred pages i just never thought i'd write a book and my daughter name is marlene. She's the founder of the one thousand blackhawks campaign so she founded a campaign where she wanted to collect one thousand books where black girls where the main characters you founded the thousand black girl books campaign. Tell us why you started that. So i originally really started because i really love to read and i always wanted to myself reflected in my parents did. A great job knows making sure that little girls and little brown able to be in my library. When i went to school. I only read about white boys and their dogs. That's your daughter. That's my daughter. All my gosh. Such a huge fan of your daughters. She does incredible work daughter. That is so wild. Because i once pitched a reality show on youth activists and i actually included your daughter in the pitch as an example of people we should be highlighting while she is the reason right. So she is this fierce advocate for social justice because she's grown up in this house and been a part of this organization and she's gone out there in the world. She's had a lot of opportunity to engage with caregivers and they often come up to her and talk to her about how special she is and i think they mean well but that idea that she special suggested to her that people kept seeing her as exceptional in different and not understood like she was part of a cadre of girls that have been a part of grassroots for so long and that this thing that she is is a part haven't been raised that way so she would say to me and caregivers would come up to me. How can i get a daughter. Like marley and i would just be like really. I'll have your child you broccoli and go to sleep because i two rejected this idea. It's not that. I don't think my baby special. I think she is wonderful and unique. But i want aid to emphasize caregivers that she is this way because of the framework of her life and the way in which she has raised and what she's been trained. So marley over time really adores caregivers talking to her but she really felt like they needed to understand and so she gathered a posse of people along with others. Who'd been saying it for years. I need to create a book. And i need to put into stuff i do with her as my daughter but stuff i do with all the girls that i've worked with a part of grassroots and the caregivers over the years plus all the sociology style in one place that people had essentially a toolkit than they could better understand. That marley is special. But the these things that we have been doing with her is something that they too could do with themselves and their children. And so it's that prodi and she would say that she's encouraged me not bullied me. But she has strongly encouraged me to put be set of actions into one place and thus the book. and why is it so important to focus. This works on daughters. I think a lot of reasons one is women and girls. In general across the entire globe are often cast as second class citizens. No matter where you can go to the farthest corner of the globe to developed societies always second place and then when you complicate it with any intersections race gender other sexualities ability we get further and further down and there is an absence of a global investment in girls yet across the globe. We know that ninety percent of every dollar every girl grows up to be a woman earns. She will use it to better her family in her community despite the low investment girls come back to say even if. I'm not a mom. If i'm an auntie a teacher if i'm a caregiver we carry the care of the entire globe and yet we don't have a global investment in them so my work. My life's charge is precisely which is to say. Look good people i understand. I understand that you think that the other sex or the other gender is really the priority when it's really want the best bang for your buck if you want a global healthy community if you want people to not be so hostile and violent you need to start by investing in girls because we are the lynch pin for change in harmony one study. That was really fascinating with about ten years ago. It's called the multi institutional study of leadership and that study was designed to figure out how best to develop a leadership capacity of college students and it went out to thousands of students across the country asking them. How often do you do. Different leadership skills like collaborate communicate through conflict et cetera. And i remember getting the reports back. And i was intrigued to see that the women said that they were participating in these leadership skills and activities at a much higher rate than the male students. What you're saying is making my heart so happy not only just the recognition of this. But also what's going on in our country we're fighting to get girls put into our constitution. Women are not protected under the united states constitution and it surprises everyone because everyone thinks the fourteenth amendment covers women which it does. But that's because we've manipulated that the nineteen th amendment. The right to vote is our only guarantee in the constitution and to me what that sends out is just a signal of less then on top of the fact that we're already discriminated against for being women were treated differently or as second class citizens. I took a feminism class. Not too long ago in the quarantine. I happened and it was amazing to me to learn in such small compact time frame of all of the injustices and all of the hurt that women have gone through throughout the world. And you're right as soon as you add any of the intersection analogies to that. Then it's made even harder but also just to learn that like history books. We didn't start talking about feminism until the sixties so what does that mean for sexual assault. What does it mean for violence against women. If we were always treated as a property and didn't have our own inalienable rights. One of the facts that keeps eluding people is every life on this planet. Human life exists. Because of a girl. I think sometimes it just like miss people. Even one of the work that we do at the foundation is this workaround periods and end period poverty. The idea that we have this thing that we treat as gross and we don't provide supplies for and it was like without a period. There is no human life just no human life and so the idea that girls and women are ansari and optional is to me just so preposterous and so the book like everything else is a charge to all of us to invest reinvest commit to the investment of women and girls and starred in that process very early and making sure that we're consistent with it across the life course of girl but this book is the first of the stepped as much like a garden. Is that you need to have good soil. That's a home and you need to be able to nurture it such that. A girl can grow up strong confident and connected that she doesn't see herself as singularly exceptional in a way but rather herself is connected to other members and it's in bad experienced a she can grow up being committed to justice in the world because she sees herself in the world but also being joyful rather than ladened so much of social activism is like. I'm so tired. Am i gonna end. It is so important to find our joy in this work. You mentioned period poverty. Before and i do want to just mention to the listeners that new zealand right now has passed a law to hand out period products in all schools to try to end eradicate period poverty if new zealand can do it and scotland it so all of these other nation states can do it and in the united states. We know that girls will miss one month out of their school year because they don't have access to these resources and forget about the stigma at the embarrassment. It's really unbelievable Is music a big part of your life. Well let me tell you about anchor. Spotify podcasting platform. It's free. there are creation tools that allow you to easily and quickly record at right from your phone or computer. Best of all with angry you can create a music plus talk show with music plus talk. You can add any songs from spotify directly to your episodes alongside talk segments featuring your commentary music plus talk is a whole new way to create with all the music that you love. An anchor will even help publish your show to spotify so you can reach hundreds of millions of listeners. So you got an idea for music. Plus talk show just head over to anger dot. Fm slash music plus talk that's anchored dot f. m. slash mu s. I c. p. l. u. s. t. a. l. k. to sign up for anchor and make your own music plus talk show for free. You mentioned joy. And you say something right off the bat in your introduction it resonated. It warmed my heart. It put little fire in my belly you wrote as parents or caregivers. Our first task is to lay down the burdens of our past to make space for joy in raising. Our girls joined matters. It matters in ways that people don't think about. I also took it to me as we are coming to this next phase of our lives. What do we have to heal within ourselves to find joy in this moment after. I had milo my. I had really bad postpartum anxiety. Really bad and i think that a lot of it was about generational issues that i had not dealt with not only with my own mother. But like with my grandmother's who. I'm lucky enough to have a grandmother who's still alive but to really kind of dive into what would cause me heartache and how i could heal that in order to find joy in parenting with it took me a while to figure out but let's talk a little bit about why that's so important because anyone with bring capacity can know what we are supposed to do. We can read a million bucks about what we are supposed to do. In order to raise a functional being but in practice and in theory those are two totally different things. They are totally different and actually right at the beginning of the book. I make this distinction between happiness and joy which is really critical to me. So i really think about a lot of people are really interested in being happy right and in the book and in my life i talk about happiness as being temporary almost performative right people say well how you doing today all girl. I'm happy i'm an economics. Teacher and economics as a discipline has tried to weigh in on the happiness debate. How many surveys have you seen lately of the happiest people from the happiest places. They are everywhere yet. Any student in the first week of class. We'll find out that economics studies how we have unlimited desires for things and how we're in competition with the limited resources of our planet. so how can we have unlimited desires for things and still be bored at the same time that happiness is not a state of internal peace. That joy is a state of internal peace and optimism. And that if we are in charge of the lives of young people we need to find that peacefulness in ourselves. So i write about coming to terms with our which are adverse childhood experiences as the core work of parents him. Even if you're doing it right now. You're ready apparent. And somehow you're engaging with the book apart of it is much of the work his parents in your self and attending to yourself so for those of us who've had bad childhoods like mine right or even worse it is about going back to the past extracting the good that was in that hard moment and that extraction that excavation and is what you bring forward and you leave those things that are not useful where they are back there and so it is in doing that that we begin to cultivate a space for joy to happen but if you are not engage in the process of working with yourself trying to understand and know yourself in what you do is you project said. I'm doing this for my kids. I just have to take this job. I have to do this thing. I have to stay in play. I have to do this. I can't attend to me. Because i have to attend to the kid so the children become the external way of dealing with things rather than dealing with yourself so in the book i give a series of exercises and i asked people to go and take their aces so they have an accounting of the adverse childhood experiences that they've had so they know that one it's not in my head it's not in my head this was developed by scientists and then i can start to begin the work in the process of cultivating my own space for me to be joyful and it is in model. Enjoy not saying. Hey you'd be happy. It's in model enjoy and being connected that we also are able to be better caregivers and parents to our children. It isn't the talent. it's the way i love it so much. You also mentioned parent like it matters. Where does that mean a couple of things in this horrific historical moment post traumatic moment in so many ways those of us who have been around these past four years and we have to deal with polarizing society a society that is deeply sexist homophobic classes in every way. And we want change to happen. We want the next generation to not have to deal with this. And i argue. That are locus of control to make. That possible begins in our homes. What we do in our homes the messages the ideologies that we are teaching our children those leaders or non leaders that are marshalling against hope who are leading insurrections who are violently killing members of our community. They were children and bay learned. B.'s ideas very early. We know moral development starts at early as five watching people and the way people treat people and so for us who are on the other side who want children who value human life care for others interested in in forms of justice then what matters most is that we start showing them in small important ways how that matters why that matters so it can be a part of who they are not some class. They have to take not experienced. They have to go through. We wanted to be in the very fabric of who they are and so we need to parent like it matters because it does if we want to have a safe and just world going forward interesting all of the books like you get pregnant and it seems like there are a million different books about your pregnancy and how big the baby is in. It's a grape. Now it's up to end conditions you to believe that labor is like the end goal. Okay once i get there. I'm good to go. And then you realize after labor that was like the end of the easy part. That wasn't the beginning of something like now. The work begins what i tell people. Is that for me. At least you get out of parenting what you put into it. That is a critical part. Of what i believe. I think that you get out of parenting. Not only what you put in but the context that you create parenting when you have a baby in your belly you like. It's me in this baby and in many respects by the ninth month. Even though people don't tell you it's ten you're ready for this child to leave you once the child leaves you. That's the work right because now it's no longer one. It's more than one. You begin to immediately not have control when that reigns in your belly. You had so much control so safe. That baby was the safest it will ever be an entire life when it was in my belly and so much of the way we think about parent is a singular experience of you and i argue. That's just not it that as soon as that baby's out the whole world is influencing. Your baby was an thing that you'll parenthetic or did during your childhood that you wish they hadn't was there anything that hurt you. That left a scar. You can still feel today. Perhaps you've come to forgive your parents for those moments of weakness because you know they love you and did their best or perhaps you're not sure about their love for you and you have to live with that uncertainty. Every child is at risk of suffering in this world. Full of imperfect adults and childhood scarves cut deep. So the question is what are you going to do. What world are you going to create. Sometimes you've used to ask me. What do you all of this stuff. And i said you know i really love my child and i know other people's children could out much so i have to really invest in other people's children isn't invested in their parents. Because i'm really want my child to be safe. I want my child to feel locked. I want her to have friends and family that nurture her so instantly you get out. Apparently what you put in and the context and the environment that you're creating so everyone wants their child to be happy safe and loved but if we do that we're going to have to parent like matters because we're going to have to build communities of people who has to be loving and kind and wonderful so this might be a really silly question. But i'm going to ask it anyway. So do you think that there are things. Parents should always be doing and things that they shouldn't be doing. That might not be obvious on first glance. Oh yeah definitely. I think one of the things that parents should always be doing is always from the millisecond that they have found out that they have a child is that they have to start asking themselves. How am i am i do. I feel good about who i am. I just think every caregiver needs to ask and begin with a question about who they are. I think too often. Every book that i got was like about the kid. The questions are always like is the kid good is the fetus. Growing is the fetus breathing. And none of those questions are about you. How were you doing. How are you doing the entire road. And i think a lot of parents don't think about how they're doing and then they look up for some it's like when they have the empty nester for some. It's when the children is right about ten in they're going out more and you have no sense of even who you are because you have just done in a relationship with yourself and that i felt a disservice to children because children will replicate their process. Children always learn more about what we do than what we say people. Just say that if we say thanks to children something will stick no. It's how you're living. That leaves the marks of what they should be doing. So i think all caregivers need to really commit to self development as they parent when their parenting the entire process and i think all caregivers needs to give notions of perfectionism. Anything to you can guarantee the outcome of your child. Give it up. don't even do it. Don't do it to yourself. It's just a bad place to be if i do. This child's gonna turn out hard. It's especially hard for women who are very type a personality like i've had control of everything pretty much in my life except maybe my childhood. I was a child actor. Obviously and didn't have much control there. But i made it. My business have control. Because i didn't have control as a child. So what an awakening a child and you realize you have control over. None of it people would ask me all the time. Would you let your kid be an actor. Before i had kids i was like no. There is no way. Are you kidding me. And then after. I had them sort of realized they come out pretty much who they are and yes we can nurture but if they have this natural inclination of showmanship because not every child has that i have one that has it. I have one. That doesn't have one kid that will perform in front of two hundred people not blink twice in one. That'll hide behind my legs. So you know to be able to nurture who they innately are i think is also part of it not trying to wrap their success into what you see is successful so i write in the book that you need to raise the child. You have not the child you wish you had because first of all the first thing is that why we should instantly now is that your child is not just a product of you. They have other people who went into their contribution. If we would just pause it just be like oh i. It wasn't me who did this. Let's talk numbers. Really quick to the number of people at took to exchange their genetic loading love resulting in yours truly thousand nine hundred eighty five. The year i was born six the number of years that they endured before ending toxic marriage. One the number of people who finally asked what was going on at home eleven. How old. I was when i moved from one parent to another three. The amount of teachers who rallied around me in court as i entered foster care. There's a whole other person that contributed and been there is the new social space in the parented. Space and the child comes with their genius. So it's like be involved with the child you actually have the aspirational child and so caregivers give that up. I think that most of us would mean a better place really quickly. It's such a great point. So what are some of the preconceived notions parents might have about who girl should be and what impacts those preconceptions have on the girls raise one preconception. Is that people think they understand. What a girl is that. A girl is a particular way. Even in this moment where we see continuum of girls caregivers leaning to gender schemers really seriously and particularly arcane old school gender scheme is like where address love this cutler. Do this thing. And even if she's not on this kind of hyper feminized version than it is well. She's a super athlete. So that's why she doesn't wear the dress and that's why she doesn't do that. We constrain the humanity of girls by suggesting they either be this way or that way right. We allow boys a whole full range of humanity like he's creative or he's athletic or he is a combination boys get to be full human beings they get to be angry and the true but girls are dichotomies into these two categories almost all the time and this becomes the way in which we get to dehumanize girls and girls respond by either being superhuman can do everything. I'm going to be high performing all the time or they already have. Looks vacations of me. So i'm just gonna opt out. And it is in. Fostering girls humanity the range of their selves. Again to the idea of the girl you actually have versus the girl you want to have seen on. Tv is that people need to look at girls as humans entreat them accordingly by allowing their fullest self to always be present and to encourage their own joy their own joy on their terms. So what are some of the traits. Parents should be modeling for their daughters. And what do they look like in the real world. So i think that people who in mostly traditional family of some mom in some dad. I think it is really essential. That girls see gender roles being disrupted especially since the dominant messages. Outside of their homes are going to be that there people who mother and then there are people who father and then. We have some land of misfit toys where some mother's father and some father's mother girls need to see the adults in their lives being human and taken on multiple ways of being they also need to hear stories very often of their caregivers successes and failures too often caregivers present to their children models of got it all together. All the time and often children do not hear stories of caregivers failings grand failings especially as kids and their recovery so children think a historical. They grew up with these adult people. They see them as adults and they to do not see adults as having come all the way to the place they currently are and caregivers really need to invite kids and having conversations with them listening to them sharing themselves with their children. I remember very early on our daughter would be like well. I didn't know that about you. I didn't know that about you. And do you quickly begin to discover that your children only know you in the person who puts them to bed. Who provide for them this way and then they don't have any sense of the fact that if they step misstep that you had many missteps that you recovered from yes those of us who are of a certain age we should be lucky to be alive like right all the n. Even have seat belts. We're lucky we made it an arch. Children do not have that kind of frame of reference so our children need to see differences in gender roles. They need to see us as humans so that they can understand and be in relationship with their own humanity. There is something in the book that you write about joyful parenting. That really stuck with me. You said to reach this joy. We must have a sense of gratefulness. Respect for human rights and a desire to engage in actions that can bring about social change. This seems like your idea of joy is intimately connected to community and the world at large which i love so much instead of focusing inward and it seems like your vision of parenting also carries this idea with it. Can you just talk a little bit about why that is yes so there are several reasons i think to me joy comes about when we're engaged in a process of doing acting and a process of really being invested in change making in trying to make the world good. Is that the very act of doing something to increase. The health and wellbeing of others is a process that really feeds us. So you get more from given then you realize like you think oh. I've donated this coat. I gave that person that code but you actually now get to think better of yourself and that is a kind of gratitude that you now get to have for yourself. Having engaged in something that on the face of it only seems like it's outside of you giving recurred in my life. Not only with friends who really did give and became lifelong friends on scholarship. And so i found myself at these donor. Dinners and i didn't understand it. They're all these older people they didn't know me at all. And we were sit there and i would have to say. Thank you for my scholarship. Someone may have done that in here. But what astounded me. was there joined. They seem to derive a personal joy. Out of giving to me for me. Much of what i think about the world and i think about this for myself is like why do i feel so peaceful and i think it is because every day i am doing something that is not narcissistic right. That is not just self care and sell century is that i am trying to find ways every day to connect with others such that. We can have a greater sense of community of wellness of relationship. So that when something goes awry essentially have a whole safety-net emotional and physical fulfilment of really being connecting. Yes yeah enjoy comes from this sense of. I am not alone. My child is not alone. My family is not alone. It is almost built in an inheritance right in many respects. Because we're not all going to be here forever. What is that legacy the leg out. Are the people that we have touched the lives that we have been a part of the connectedness is the thing and so it feels in many respects a real push back to the kind of dominant american ideology of individual nece. And that's why so. Many people feel so deeply saddened because they feel so isolated an individualize and what i'm encouraging people to do is to move out of that to be connected with others and find that that connection can really be them. What you're saying is such music to my ears. I remember maybe a year and a half ago. I found a new therapist. Who had said to me you know like what do you do for self care. I remember thinking like first of all. I don't even know what to make of that question. But second of all. Like i looked at my you mean where do i find my fulfilment like my joy and he's like no like how do you take care of yourself at. I went back to you. Mean where do i find my fulfillment and my joy because to me that is my self care myself care is fighting for people and fighting for injustices and amplifying voices like yours. That's my self care. That's my soul care but for some reason and it's gotta be just through. All of these tips are billion dollar. Businesses yes right so people have made very long careers out of you know telling people how they should live or how they should find their joy and we've gotten so disconnected from communities and from each other. That's the thing is the disconnect. So i like a massage. I liked to have my nails done. I particularly liked to have my lashes. Then it's not self care to me. Though that's like monuments ooh stakes. Make me marry temporarily half the and i enjoy them. An i have no issues with those things. But what i think. We miss often in that. Is that those are routine is activities that enhances levels of whatever vanity. We have and they're not necessary julie in fulfillment are about that. What's on the necessary things. The necessary thing is that. I don't feel isolated. My children don't feel isolated that i am in with people trying to do things that enhance how i feel about myself how they feel about themselves and how we function. That's something else. And i think that much of the mega messages about parenting or about the society says well you know. Keep it in your house right. Like people don't need to know your business so a lot of it is isolationist and disconnected kind of work and i just think that harms our children really harms our society. Instead we can say look clearly things that are private in nature but connection. We've got to always trying to push ourselves to being connected to caring to knowing to feeling one in coordination with others because then we understand when the hurt and we can celebrate when they win. How do we do that in this disconnected world even without kovin where it feels like technology has replaced too many families away of connection. I actually think there's some interesting community stuff that's happening some of it distorted but still really this pod life. That people seem to be living. I think has a lot of promise. Not in the ways of being exclusionary but people really saw with covid that they really needed to come together right smaller communities in the way now it is privileged a whole host of challenges around pod light but gives us example of like when we get through. This people will look like. I couldn't have gotten through this alone. I'm fairly optimistic general. But i'm actually quite optimistic about the strategic learnings of covid because covert has introduced in our vocabulary the term public health which is actually really at the heart of connection. Stay home engage in social distancing. Protect yourselves protect our system. And let's get through this strongly as a country. The call stay away from each other grows more urgent by the day. And as a new normal descends can feel so solitary and yet we're all alone. People are sharing the same moment in time to make sure you're staying far enough apart right anyway. They can get together with your neighbors. Good you realize the value community is being redefined by the day. I think it's one of the many reasons why we're struggling right now because it is cold all things american that you're saying my house is connected to somebody else's how ideally want my health to be connected to other people's health and it's like no because guess what we are all actually connected so public health gives us connections and it gives a social justice. It says that you cannot simply operate by yourself. And so the people who keep pushing back on public health practices are the people who are ill equipped at this moment to be in connection and so those are the people who we really have to start doing some work on but we again cannot do it. If we've decided that they're useless needs to be thrown away. We have to try to figure out a way in order to get them to value community. And i think the way we do that is actually through parented because again any person who has given birth or is in charge of evil. All want the same thing. I want my kids to be happy. I want my kid to be safe and those caregivers. I've not yet seen the dots. They don't see it connected so schools. I think are just a really great place as the intersection of government community. Will we can do some real work if we wanna have a promise of a future that is about connection. You're so amazing. So much of this work that we do as parents obviously a super important. But i wonder if there's similar work that older siblings or maybe especially brother's named milo should be doing as part of a family. Yes so that's what's so great. So each chapter has a set of assignments some for individuals. Some four family some for extended family and community. I think though the book is called parent like it matters. It's for anybody who has a young girl in their lives. That includes brothers. So i only have brothers. I have three older brothers. And i wish you know if i would going back on his mic. Y'all need to be best. Is that brothers. Have this amazing role of what feels like the voice of truth so parents by the time. A child is five or so. They're skeptical of whether or not the parents are just saying nice things to them. 'cause it's true or because their their parents but your siblings voice feels like that's the actual truth. Your sibling tells you that you actually look good. That feels like the truth. Your mom told you to same bang. Your dad told you the same thing just on my god your show all but conversely if your sibling says you don't look good you are not smart. Then i also feels like the same voice. Validation and now voice grows more and more because children in our household. You feel like you're both being governed by these old people. No matter how young the parent is the ferret has always cast as the. I said they don't really understand but this person understands and so siblings. I think really have to be a part of the caregiving circle. That really helps us protect and love and nurture and engender confidence in curls and that sibling could be a boy but assembling could also be a girl is that everyone has a role if we want to raise young girls to be confident we have to get all hands on deck at wanna give you an opportunity to tell us more about grassroots community foundation and how my listeners can support you and your incredible work so aggressive says my love and like most things in my life i always think like i'm bright and then my friends are like you should be doing more and so i'm very good. Friend dash melody goodman. Who really she will say. Invited me to use my talent this way. So grass is a federally recognized five. Oh one c. Three and we do the work of leading this leadership camp which you read about in the book over the past ten years and we've done the camp in new jersey as well as in philadelphia and again really take a holistic care to children and their families and so people can support that work as it continues because we also do wraparound works throughout the year where we train girls on history health wellbeing current events. Parliamentary style of leadership. But we have really three major campaigns. That could you support. One is the end period poverty campaign which we have picked up and we do work in the us primarily new jersey ghana and jamaica. So we've provided supplies to girls to make sure that they are able to continue their schooling and we have an amazon linked that people can help and send supplies in order to support that work and then we have my daughters work the one thousand black role books campaign which we collect donate books where black girls of the main characters and donate them across the globe. And when i say across the globe i mean across the globe when we started the campaign. We hadn't thought that it needed money. We just collected books amid. We're like how we're gonna pay shift these so it was just a campaign of books so she's collected thirteen thousand bucks. And so we're like. Oh my gosh. Small detail dash amazing and then we have a campaign that is around food. Insecurity that operates during the month of october through december where we provide meals for our elders as well as people in housing development in new york philadelphia memphis several communities across the country. And we usually do that. I think a turkey challenge where we invite people to actually compete to see who can in fact donate the most turkey. And even though. It's really not turkeys forsake. We give organic fruits and vegetables all the rest of those things but the name the turkey challenges really so we have board members compete in france competing to see who can i was the reigning champion for many years. I've since been unseated by my board member. Lisa maxwell who has corporate dollar money Those are the three big ways. Our websites is grassroots community foundation dot org that's grass g. r. a. s. s. roots with an ass foundation dot. Org and also we're on instagram at grassroots found and on twitter as well even though i don't enjoy the twin of space it's angry it is so angry. It's so very angry. If you're looking for your joy you won't find it on twitter and finally my last question for you is what gives you hope learners. Anyone who is a learner gives me hope. I don't take for granted. The idea that any of us know a thing. But i do really value people who are in search of who want to better understand and so when i come in contact with learners i just feel so at hopeful and as much as this has been such a challenge in period. I am excited at the large numbers of people who say i have so much more to learn. That makes me really quite happy. Well geneva you give me hope so. Thank you for that. Thank you for all you do. And for being a part of the podcast for bill and me family has been the center of our lives but we also know that our family like your family is part of a larger community that can help or hurt our best efforts to raise our child. We all have a responsibility for breaking down the barriers that keep women from achieving equity in america. It would be great if the men in power would simply you know make space safe space for women to exist but we know that this isn't happening and so we need to empower girls to make that change and teach our boys to help them as parents. It's on us. We need to reject her own biases. No matter where they come from and teach women that they are not subservient to men. We need to not only tell our daughters that they can be in do whatever they want. We need to empower them to be able to do so and we need to teach them how to identify discuss confront and overcome the obstacles. Our world has put in their path. This sounds like work and maybe it is. But it's truly joyful work. None of us want our kids limited and there's nothing that brings me more joy than giving my kids freedom and the ability to reach their potential. This is a totally doable thing. It's a goal we can reach together and if we do it right it will not only make my daughter have a better life. It will be great for my whole family. So like crosby stills. Nash and young told us teach your children. Well when we do the whole world changes. Sorry not sorry is executive produced by a listen. A lot of that's me. Our associate producer has been jackson. Editing and engineering. Tasha jake guts and music by josh cooke. Alicia eagle and milo bleary. That's my boy. Please subscribe on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like the show please rate review and spread the word.
The Lessons of 9/11
"Major funding for the pulses provided by leadership. Gift from the sutherland family. The sutherland support. Whyy and its commitment to the production of programs that improve our quality of life. This is the pulse stories about the people places at the heart of health and science. I'm mike and scott getting to the site of the flight. Ninety three national memorial in somerset county means getting to know the pennsylvania countryside. You drive through these rolling hills the farmland and you know you sort of are are embraced by the land once you're there and you pass the tower of voices which is a huge tower with chimes that ring when the wind picks up there. And if you've been to the site you know that the wind is is part of that site. You feel the wind every time you were there. That's tim lambert. His family owned part of this land. Before it became a national memorial as you center her your gaze You see the sandstone boulder in the distance and that marks the crash site with the hemlock grove behind it just a beautiful scene. You would have no idea that something so horrific and tragic happened there. Tim is also a journalist at harrisburg. So both his personal and his professional life became intertwined with the story of flight. Ninety three the hijacked plane that crashed after passengers and crew attempted to take back control. The first time. Tim visited the site just a month after the crash he was walking around with the coroner you could see him. Locks that had been taken down They were charred and burned. The ground was bulldozed where they filled in the crater. And i said to him you know. What did you find from the plane. And he bent over and he picked up this dime sized piece of metal when he said stuff like this. And i'll never forget this. It was like a camera shutter click. It was like flight. Ninety three was all around us. The was everywhere and we were just. You know immediately. Just heartbroken If you would asked me. Twenty years ago. When i visited that site in october two thousand one when the wind would pick up and you would smell the jet fuel in the air you see debris all around you and if you would say in twenty years this is what the site is going to look like this is how we will pay tribute to the forty passengers and crew. I would think that's perfect for ten. The changed landscape tells the story of healing. By the first anniversary. You started to see grass grow a little bit more. The by the fifth anniversary that grass was higher. The trees were coming back. Nature was taking over. You can hear the birds. you could hear the crickets. You could hear a deer sort of you know skipping off through the high grass the hemlock would bring you shade the passing of twenty years since the terror attacks has meant. Some of the wounds cut by that day have closed others have not. The attacks caused a wave of death grief and illness. The world had changed andrew. Sonny garcia so i think over time the remembrances have become for some a funeral. Once a year wasn't shah that. I had this disease. Someone asked me. They will god. Do you have to do mind but do you have cancer. Nine eleven also changed our lives our cities the way we build and move around in the world. What was a new normal in the weeks and months after the attacks slowly became just regular normal on this episode we're looking at the lasting effects of the nine eleven attacks and what we've learned one question that emerged quickly after the attacks was about skyscrapers. And what would make these. Soaring structure is safer. How could more people escape in case of an emergency it was a problem that dogged architects city planners developers and office workers the collapse of the world trade center towers and the way in which so. Many people became trapped with no way out pointed to important changes. That should be made. Where are we with those changes. Twenty years later jets lehman went to find out. There's this one enduring photo. From the north tower of the world trade center that symbolizes the heroism of first responders. It's tight shot of a firefighter climbing up the stairs. He's in full gear. Sweat covers his face. And he's actually looking right at the camera when glenn corbett looks at this photo. He's looking past the firefighter focusing on the people around him trying to get out. You'll notice that the people going down the people evacuating are stop in. Some cases are because the limitations of the with of forty four inches the stairs. They're only forty four inches wide. This became a major bone of contention after nine eleven. Glenn is an associate professor of fire engineering at the john. Jay college of criminal justice in new york. He was one of the advisers to the federal team that looked into the nine eleven attacks from an engineering and fire safety perspective. That day of nine eleven to stairwells forty four one fifty six serve literally over ten thousand people in buildings that number forty four inches. It's not arbitrary. But it is outdated. Glenn says it comes from all the way back to world war one. The average shoulder with of a soldier was twenty two inches then so the code doubles that to forty four wide enough for one person to go down while another goes up. Only you walk. Don't walk like straight down. If you actually take film of some walking slow it down you see that. The top of their body moves side to side. So it's actually wider than that. There's all kinds of worrying little surprises about the code. Like you might think. High rise buildings are designed with total evacuation in mind. Get everyone out right. They're not you know we don't we do not designed for full building evacuation. They're designed at most to evacuate the three largest floors at once. It's a bit counterintuitive at first but as buildings taller pointing straight up into the sky engineering a quick way to evacuate the whole building becomes something close to impossible. Because here's the problem member we said about steroid with if we increase the stair with to accommodate more and more people and stuff you'll find out that of course. The building becomes all staircases in though no occupy floors right. it's all staircases. Just the number of people and glenn says even if the towers had that extra stairwell it still wouldn't have been enough if the planes had struck later in the day when more people were at work many several thousand people probably would have died in the collapse only because they literally were trapped in the stairwells at a snail's pace trying to make their way out of the building. Basically it takes a while to climb down dozens of flights of stairs. It takes longer of course to climb up which hindered the work of first responders. Both of these fires are at least eighty floors above ground level. So just simply getting up. There was a herculean task. We know that for example tank Palmer certainly got to the area of impact in the south tower literally a minute or two before collapsed about. There's a documentary about this. it's terrifying. that'd with horrific stories like that. Glenn thought something like wider. Staircases would be an easy addition to the code. Become an obvious must have in any new skyscrapers. I mean what we thought were no brainer right We thought would be sort of a simple upgrade that we really felt was needed ended up being a real fight for the stuff. The gsa government services administration pushed back hard against the recommendations so one federal agency wanted wider stairs. Another didn't in the end. The code mainly changed only for buildings above four hundred and twenty feet so roughly thirty stories and higher. We get above that. You're in a different class of building. You need to have more stairs and they need to be wider. The code also allows these buildings to use specially designed fire safe elevators as evacuation tools. Glenn says it's a step in the right direction but not nearly enough so far only a handful of new buildings in the us have these new. Fire elevators. I could only find too. That work automatically for evacuations and this four hundred and twenty foot cutoff. Blend calls it. A magic number thinks the stricter requirements should apply shorter buildings than that. The main obstacle is money. Safety is an investment that may never show a return. We're fighting dollars and cents. It's all about money right. It's about literally trading off extra stairway with you know for less rentable office space or usable office space. The conventional thinking. Now high-rise regulation focuses on ways to keep the building standing as long as possible that means proper fire installation on support structures. It could mean concrete cores the height of the building. But there's still a big problem as glen sees it. There's a gaping hole in the code. There's no like for example. Someone thought oh gee there must be something in our building coats talking about how long it takes to evacuate. It's not in there. The math part of figuring that out by the way is not that difficult. A lot of model is physics. That's lynn holes. She's part of an interdisciplinary fire. Safety engineering group. At the university of greenwich a lot of modeling is just how smoke and fire move relatively straightforward stuff. Then you can in terms of human behavior. That's the sliding complex thing. Lynn is a psychologist so her part in this work is trying to figure out what people will when a fire alarm goes off or when a plane smashes into the building next door when trying to understand human behavior in these situations she says strike. One word from your vocabulary panic. It's very unhelpful. It's there's been a lot of studies discrediting it. Lynn says the truth is people. Behave quite rationally. Even in extreme situations that was true. Nine eleven lynn was part of the team that interviewed hundreds of survivors. One thing that struck is just how readily people listened to their bosses and managers sometimes to their peril. There were instances where people said. They were told by authority figures that they couldn't leave because they're in the middle of the meeting and it was an important meeting and they stayed behind unfortunately to fatal result. People also spent a lotta time. Just trying to figure out what was going on going to the windows asking their colleagues all of this information seeking as lynn calls. It was time that could and should have been spent leaving the building. The problem lynn says is with the nature of the alarms. An alarm. going off only tells you that there's some kind of problem but not much else about what's going on often. An alarm. It in itself isn't enough. The challenge then is to work at what kind of information to give an enought in the sense of what we can't tell them what's really happening because they might conic quite the opposite but just a incense of keeping it concise and also ensuring that it provides information of where the stretches to give people the chance to make a decision. Okay which exit hatch. I take linda's to her knowledge. No such system has actually been built like glenn. The fire engineer. She sees the lessons of nine eleven. Only partly learned for proof of that. Glenn says you don't have to go any farther than the site of the attacks themselves. Even the nine eleven memorial itself. The museum is seven storeys below grade. And so there's a big question of when you've got over a thousand people in a museum. How do you quickly move those people out of a dangerous environment. His team was never happy about it. We didn't think it should be below ground in the first place. And we were very vocal about that and we told them that and You know they went ahead did it. Anyway i went to check it out the museum. Entrance is above ground. But that's about the only part. Go down some escalators past. You barely notice you're going underground at first. It's a pretty wide crowded. Kind of corkscrew is down. it's dark. People keep pretty quiet walking past preserved. Bits of wreckage destroyed fire engine. What used to be part of the towers air conditioning submit like the inside of a cave. No day shall erase you from the memory of time. Virgil it's etched in stone wall and this enormous hallway. Hard to tell how far underground i am now. Finally i come to the footprint of one of the towers. It's smaller than. I thought it would be this playground sized square that used to be the buildings orders north tower as is just the deepest part of the is the bottom. How do you know how far down about seven seven seven. The way back up without stopping to look at displays was tougher. Here's some escalators. Don't know these would be temporarily stairs and case of an emergency at some point. I noticed i was out of breath. I didn't realize it until i to talk into the mic. I don't know if it's the mask that's making me out of breath or and to start taking better care of myself but we're almost out almost out and there. It was finally sunlight. So how long would it take me to get out of here info sprint. Take me ten minutes if everyone is going up at the same time. I don't know. I can see what glenn was talking about. It's easy to imagine that memorial. When you're way down there becoming a tune i wanted to see an example of a building that works though one that was built with the lessons of the twin towers in mind and i found it practically next door building. Seven of the world trade center was destroyed by the collapse of the north tower. Glenn tells me it was rebuilt about as resilient as can be. It checked off all of his many boxes. I went to check it out off. Build a condo is executive vice president in charge of operations at silverstein properties. The company behind the building shows me around starting in the lobby. Disputable art is actually also blessed will end. This war will ben and shattered but not shoot glass shards around show anybody. That's behind that it'd be protected as well. So what makes it a blast wall. It doesn't look like a blast wall. Just your run of the mill corporate facade but look near the top and it's hung by cables instead of attached meant to move with a blast rather than to buckle. We have a fire command station here at the front desk but we also have another fire command station in the building but i not going to disclose the location of that. And that's he can't show me all of their safety features of course security and all but he can show me their pride and joy the stairs. This core is two and a half foot thick reinforced concrete wall. So the safety inside here second. The stairway is huge. I could imagine like four or five people walking down in a row. It's twenty percent wider than the wider post. Nine eleven code requirements. You can hear the echoes in bill's voice so you you are now within a concrete for which is like a bunker. Their spaces each landing to put injured. People maneuver those with disabilities. There's redundancy after redundancy a fiber optic cable just for responder communication cable for internal comms independent sprinkler systems. The lighting system is on a generator and battery backup. And we have photo munitions. The stairways here are perhaps unlike any anywhere else. If the building goes down the stairs assured will be the last part. You couldn't you couldn't take these. The building has two main stairways that become for each that lead to different exits with led lighting systems directing traffic to the safest option text. What's going on. Another lighting system is as simple as red means. Stop green means go. You follow the lights through this corridor. That down this staircase or another until you're out the thing that struck me about this system is just how much space it takes up especially in new york city land of the shoebox apartments costing fortunes bill. You don't use ninety nine dollars just for case yes and you always need a plan. B for the pulse. I'm jay claiming this is the pulse. I'm mike scott. The legislation that created a fund to help survivors of nine eleven is named after a first responder. A new york city police. Detective named james drogue up. He died in two thousand six off a respiratory illness that his family and a medical examiner tied to his work doing rescue and recovery at the world trade center the fund which is called the world trade center health program covers immediate health effects like head trauma and burns but also problems. That might take time to manifest like back pain. Ptsd depression and some forms of cancer politically. It's been a battle to keep this program. Funded comedian jon. Stewart has been a vocal champion for the fund. Here he is making an emotional testimony before congress in twenty nineteen behind me filled room of nine eleven first responders and in front of me a nearly empty congress. Sick and dying. They brought themselves down here to speak to no one shameful in speeches and discussions about this fund. The focus has mostly been on first responders the heroes the people who rushed in to save lives but there were so many others who were affected by the attacks and the destruction of the towers residents office workers school children thousands of people who were exposed to the dust and debris many of them say they are now suffering long term health consequences and they are asking for help alan you reports four days off the september eleventh. Two thousand and one kimberley's boss told her to go back to work at her job at a major new york city government department. Her office was full blocks away from the world trade center. Her boss also told her to get a mosque from the hardware store. Kimberly soon realized what. The mosque was for the smell. It was accurate that titled pungent odor that is unmistakably flash. She says it was that mixed with a metallic smell. She associates with heavy machinery. It was only forget that first day she worked through the night helping to organize information to find missing people for the next month also. She worked twelve hour shifts. She and her colleagues took personal items to identify the dna of victims and work conditions. Difficult because everything was covered in soot enthusiast including her office. It came with adopt. It came through the ventilation system when we sat at our desks desks covered. We all were officious and wiping down the desks. But we didn't have gloves who didn't have mask then have p. p. e. at the time so we wiped down at a desk with the paper towels that we had available to us but someone she breathed in the dust for twelve hours every day analysts take my shoes before. Entered the home the house because it looked as though you were intel about all the time. Kimberly also remembers this remark from volunteer. Who had experienced doing cleanup off the oklahoma city bombing in nineteen ninety-five. She indicated to us. That it's not the immediacy that they're concerned about. It's what happens to less ten years fifteen years twenty years. Twenty five years out of the fount. Kimberly kept working years later. She got a different job around two thousand and eight to former colleagues with thank most with breast cancer. Neither of them had a family history of cancer and they suspect. The illness was related to their work. After nine. eleven they encouraged kimberly to join the world trade center. Health registry which tracks the health effects of people who either worked all live or went to school near ground zero. I ask reluctance. And because of that i knew that parrish that were keells. Heroines and i was not a person that was required. Keep the out there. He basically say the dan. I was doing my job. Yes she felt that we weren't worthy but she did sign up and start like go into the world trade center health program for annual checkups in two thousand nine hundred nineteen. She went to see her gynecologist because she was having unusual bleeding from her uterus endometrial cancer cancer in the lining of the uterus. She has soldiery in february twenty twenty and went through almost a year of chemotherapy in the middle of a pandemic. Her treatment ended this january. She found out that the world trade center health program covers a variety of cancers. But not the kind. She has wasn't shell. That i had this casseus i accept this. It's not on the list. It's not last. that cannot help her. Health insurance does not cover all her medical expenses. She says it's a heavy financial burden and coverage from the world trade center health program. What help a lot. Which conditions are related to nine eleven. And which are not is still an active debate and not a controversial issue has been how to chore the geographic boundaries for the effects of the attacks some people who lived and worked in lower manhattan were not included at first but they pushed back and the coverage area expanded in twenty eleven. But what about beyond manhattan jamie lee nelson has lived on staten island five miles away for more than twenty five years. She lives close to what was once the largest landfill in the world. That landfill has been a stain on this island for ever. It stinks it stunk. So bad when. I first moved here that you had to cozy windows in the summer even in the winter. Sometimes that's how bad it was. The landfill was shut down in march. Two thousand one until nine eleven happened and that the free and rubble had to go somewhere. She says you can't really get away from the landfill on staten island. Staten island mall is basically like inside the all the parks that they built run through the dump. They built a park over the dump. When jamie lee turned thirty in two thousand nineteen. She was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had twenty months of chemotherapy five surgeries and she thinks hotel no says has something to do with the landfill lost yes. She went to a pharmacy on staten island to pick up some medicine. It guy was purchasing link breast cancer stuff so someone asked me. they will like Do you have to do mind but do you have cancer. And as i guess. I do breast cancer. And then just one by one by one single person was like. Oh my god. Oh my god no me too. No no and it's not like we just came from like a cancer group or something. I never met these people in my life in january. Twenty twenty the new york city department of health and mental hygiene said. They found no evidence that living close to the landfill causes cancer. Jamie lee does not believe that. So where should the world trade center health program troll the line on who is included. John howard has to make those decisions. He's the administrator for the program. It is hard to say. No congress starts with a list of conditions that the health program can cover but the law also recognized. The program might need to expand the list to do that. Someone has to prove that what are suffering from is directly caused by toxic exposures from nine eleven. John howard says that makes unlike health insurance and more like compensation for a work injury an often. Then you have to show that it is work related so in many cases our program does resemble a workers compensation type medical program more than it. Does your standard health insurance program. It is very hard to prove that. Someone's illness is caused by nine. Eleven exposures and nothing else whenever survivors off to add a new condition. John howard and his team go through all the scientific evidence available in try to the side thus this add up to the conclusion that this is caused by nine eleven exposures. It's a difficult balancing act because on the one hand someone is suffering and on the other hand he needs to be sure that nine eleven is the reason why they are suffering. I don't think we'll know for sure In the present state of time whether we were right or wrong but we continue to work at looking at those studies. It's even more difficult because the awesome crucial bits of information that they just don't have for example when nine eleven happened there wasn't as much research about just what was in the thermostat. Kimberly and other responders and survivors were breathing. In and another example the health programs still does not have a complete count of everyone. Who was there that day and it's hard to find them all now. I would say my greatest regret is that In two thousand two three four we did not realize that we needed to to put a cohort of fifth. Sixth seventh eighth graders. Highschool students from stuyvesant high school and other areas. Around nine eleven as a separate cohort. We lost that easy immediate opportunity and we have struggled now for twenty years. He processed at the pens on research for health coverage means administrators can only add an process claims from new conditions as quickly as research becomes available. Research takes time. That's epidemiologist george. Friedman jimenez he specializes in occupational and environmental medicine at new york university so to do a study of cancer. For example a prospective study would require people being exposed in a population then waiting five ten twenty thirty years for the cancers to develop and then determining how many people got cancer so obviously. That's not something that can be done in response to an immediate question. And so they've been a fair number of people that are left quite between the cracks in the world trade center cohort the fact that we don't have data with which to prove our need means that we don't get help. Lila nordstrom was a student at stuyvesant high school at the time of nine eleven. The school blocks away from the world. Trade center she has asthma and says it got worse in the aftermath of. She's since become a writer and an advocate for souda survivors. She still contacts survivors to add to the wo- trace anthem. How registry. She says many reluctant to join at first because they were not. The heroes offers responders neither hearing the story twenty years later. And they're like well wait a minute. I was just a sitting duck in the situation. Lila testified before congress. The same they. Jon stewart did his plea for support for first responders went viral. It responded in five seconds. They did their jobs with courage. Grace tenacity humility eighteen years later. Do yours lila's testimony did not go viral and i haven't even had my twentieth high school reunion yet but i already have five former classmates with lymphomas that i just know personally my friend. Michelle is in remission from thyroid cancer. Your only hope in hearing like that you know there's resistant members of congress and you're really relying on public pressure. Not really relying on the testimony as its sated did members of congress. The thing that you have to think about is is any of this gonna make the news. The first thing that the victims of disasters shouldn't have to do is beg on the internet for help. The second thing they shouldn't have to do is prove their worth you know we. Pennant rode the coattails of first responders into getting ourselves some kind of federal assistance. More flake were flooding from disaster disaster. Were never prepared and we never learn any lessons from any of them. That story was reported by alan. You you're listening to the pulse. I mike and scott. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts. Since the nine eleven terror attacks there has been a lot of interest in better understanding the psychological impact off traumatic experiences and how they affect people's overall health in the months after the tragedy. One researcher saw a unique opportunity to study vulnerable population and her work changed. How trauma is being studied so journal. A heavy has more when dr. Leyla hajar walked into her clinic. On september eleventh two thousand and one it was chaos. And i remember so very purely because i was parking. My car in the parking lot of the clinic and i was listening to the bbc and he said that the first attack happened and he thought it was a air accident. The reports that a plane has crashed into the world trade center setting it on fire and then he said oh my god. This is the second plane. People came screaming. Pass me saying just get out. Just get out. Get out. And i walked in. Everyone was in a panic. And all the tv's were on the realization that these terror attacks resonated in a different way for her patience. Leyla is an obgyn. Who serves a large arab community in detroit michigan and then we started getting all those calls from the arabic patients on and many of them were so distressed and crying when they found out that it was arabic terrorist basically and so after the initial guilt and sadness. If i may say there was a lot of fear in there wasn't a lot of worry about people's own safety and that of their family. Leyla could relate. She emigrated to the us from lebanon in the mid eighties and settled in michigan which has the second largest arab population in the country and in the weeks after the nine eleven attacks people were perceived to be arabs with the target of increased harassment violence in workplace discrimination. In leila says this heightened moment of fear and violence showed up in her clinic. She remembers several incidents with muslim patients. Who were dressed in. Burqas filling intimidated even trying to get to the clinic and and they're telling me look these people down there just kind of staring at me and i. I just feel so uncomfortable. They made this comment or they said why she dressed like that and she says tensions between air patients and staff were at an all time. High patience failed for example. There were treated differently in the delivery suite or in the delivery room when they went to deliver than if they had not been arabs that they weren't things weren't explained to them as well. They weren't treated as nicely and as the stress mounted in her detroit clinic. So did the stress related illnesses among the arab women she was working with. I tended to see maybe more women going to the hospital for issues like preterm contractions sometimes preterm del Hypertension and she started to wonder how the stress would impact birth outcomes for her arab patients. Die lauderdale a health researcher at the university of chicago. Have the same question. They diane is an epidemiologist and she studies behavioral and social impacts on health. And i just thought about the fact that had just come through an awful year and then it it occurred to me that it was particularly awful for arab americans and i thought this was a unique opportunity to get some kind of evidence about racism and birth outcomes in two thousand and two. She turned her attention to california a huge diverse state with the largest arab population in the country. Diane requested every birth certificate from the state of california dated from two thousand to two thousand and two. She looked at data on women who were pregnant or gave birth in the six months following september. Two thousand one compared with the same six calendar months one year earlier. Dan created an arabic name algorithm to identify arab women who had given birth during that time and she considered things like their infant's birth weights. They're just asia's which she found was that there were some significant differences. The women wear distinctive Arabic names had an increased risk of both preterm birth in low-birth-weight babies compared to very similar women who had given birth a year earlier. Now of course nine. Eleven was stressful for everybody in the country but it was not an effect that was seen in any other group of women who are similarly compared in the same time period. So all women or white women or latino women asian women or even all foreign bur- born women. Dan says her findings were in line with the growing research that showed links between ethnicity related stress during pregnancy in increases in the risk of preterm birth. At the time there actually a physiological mechanism health researchers were paying more attention to. It's called quarter troop in releasing hormone. She says this hormone might explain. How exposure to discrimination triggers this kind of maternal stress response in the body. So it's a hormone that is released in the uterus response to either the mothers or probably the fetuses being in stress and then at other studies have also found that when the level of this hormone is measured in pregnant women that the values in the second trimester are linked to probabilities of preterm birth subsequent to that scientists had been interested in the relationship between the stress of racism and pregnancy outcomes but the typical approach to studying. This was limited to interviewing women about their discrimination experiences mid post pregnancy trying to identify whether where the mechanism is more difficult. If you don't know whether it's just a lifetime of of material and psychological and social problems or whether it's actually some more specific physiologic mechanism that occurs related to stress pathways during pregnancy. It's just hard to separate. Dan says nine eleven provided her this brief and unprecedented research window to observe the impact of anti-arab violence on a specific invulnerable population and the study design has been generalized to other research efforts in the us and around the world where various kinds of unprecedented in traumatic events happen to specific groups of people so for example there was a a very interesting investigation of whether a big crackdown on immigration on illegal immigrants in iowa was associated with platina having an increased preterm birth rate and. There was some evidence that did dan study has been important in affirming link between racism experienced by black women and they're very high preterm birth rates in this country and overall the study influence. How this kind of research done so. Naturally the question becomes what role do healthcare providers play in all of this. It's really hard to know. What a a doctor or provider could do to combat sort of a general social problems that are outside medical system within the medical system. There can be care that that women are treated appropriately a inequitably but this was not particularly about discrimination in the healthcare setting and it's it would be hard for doctors to change society at large. It's it's not really a healthcare problem. But layla hajar. The obgyn in michigan says despite that in the past twenty years doctors and health systems have been increasingly interested in doing their part. We have committees we have discussions. We have people from the receptionist to the nurses to the physicians trying to find out. What are we lacking. Here how can we improve. How can we fight fools biases. That we have that may or may not be conscious. That story was reported by sojourner ahead. Traumatic experiences can change. Somebody's body and mind can lead to anxiety. Depression and overtime to problems like heart disease and it can even beyond that. These changes don't just last within the individual. If this individual were to go on to have kids they're elements. That could be a prevalent in those offspring and the kids that's columbia university neuroscientist and cell biologist bianca jones marlin and so questions. Now start to rise. How long do these experiences become memorialize in the body and passed on. How many generations what is memorialized in the body and what aspects of that are being inherited into the second and third generation. Ed bianca's lab. She and her team studied this process in mice so we present a stimulus. Just a lightfoot shock on the mouse and this is in no way shape reform in comparison to the traumas that are experienced in the world but it gives us a coral it to look at a stressor and how that changes brain and what are Myself and others have been able to replicate. Is that distressful. Experience can change the structure in the brain. This small foot shock paired with a sensory. Cue in this case we use odor can change the way that odor cells in the nose respond and even the morphology of the brain which means even the structure of the brain changes after this experience. and what other researchers have shown and we're following up on looking at the mechanism. Is that when children are born. They're born with more neurons that respond to this odor that their parents were traumatized with without ever experiencing the odor. So there's a change in the parent and that changed to be inherited into the offspring so our question is how can a memory of a traumatic experience a stressful experience even as light as a foot shock be maintained in the body of the of the parent and then pass down to the offspring even though the offspring has never experienced this odor. And why would they have more receptors. I mean if if it was sort of like good design. Wouldn't they have fewer well. If understanding that this older causes some type of stress acquires you. To sense it more the more receptors we have potentially more easily. We can smell the odor at a further distance. Further away from the harm. Okay now it makes sense. How would it ever be possible to study this in humans. I guess we could look at brain images but it's not like you can get in there in the same way. I believe that what i want. Our work always focus on is not that. We're looking for something in mice to bring to humans. This is coming from the experience of humans. The stories of the struggle of navigating life and understanding that a stressful experience could be living on in you those who who who were the ancestors and the offspring of those who have survived horrific events in the world and even those who are going through horrific events now in the world. It's their stories and their experiences that motivate our works. We can understand the mechanisms and bring it back to them. So it's not as much. Can we study this in humans more. So it's we believe what humans are experiencing it. We want to alleviate that pain by understanding the mechanism to see that their scientific biological changes associated with something that someone's gone through and not just the words Or the actions. Is i think validating above all bianca's work made me think about evolution and all of the struggles that previous generations experienced if you think about like just the fact that that most humans who came before us live through war famine war famine war famine plague play plague. You know i mean it was like nothing but suffering on some level. Nothing but suffering. And i can't help wonder if this mechanism isn't impart to prepare us and to make us stronger I'm so happy you said that because that is really what we're observing these are adaptive having increase in saul number two a older that your parents were traumatized with could have negative effects if it isn't related to anxiety however if this odor presents a trauma or stressor in the future you're not prepared. Biology wants us to survive. And i think that's one thing we have to remember any change that we have should be on the element of survival. It's one the environment is not catching up or we're not adopting to the environment is when it becomes an issue. Bianca jones marlin is a neuroscientist and cell biologist at columbia university coming up. The grieving process after nine eleven was a public one family stories in the spotlight of a national tragedy. When i drove up there were all of these cars and from my house and i just knew everything it change. That's next on the pulse Support from the pulse comes from select greater philadelphia with over thirty solid gene therapy development companies greater philadelphia is where the field started and continues. To thrive more discovery starts here dot com. The commonwealth fund supports the pulse and reporting on health equity the commonwealth fund affordable quality health. Care for everyone. Why did billy choose a group run by people with no medical experience to run. Its vaccine rollout. Heated also bring that entrepreneurial approach in. Whyy's at five part series will tell you have faxed is out now wherever you get your podcasts. This is the pulse. I mike and scott were talking about the legacy of nine eleven and the lessons we've learned since the terror attacks. How do you grieve when the whole world is watching when the person you lost is part of a tragedy. The entire country is following. When i drove up there. Were all of these cars in front of my house. And i just knew everything it changed. That's laurie gua dag. No her brother. Richard was one of the passengers on flight. Ninety three the plane crashed in rural pennsylvania as passengers and crew attempted to take control back from the hijackers. The world had changed but my family had changed to journalists. Tim lambert has been telling the story of flight. Ninety three and its aftermath since two thousand one. His life became connected with the tragedy. I in a personal way. His family owned part of the land. Where the plane crashed. He found out early the next morning on september twelfth his dad had left him. A voice message on the answering machine said those are our trees and i stared at the machine. And what did he say so. Tim started to visit the crash site. I because of this connection to the land. What was the future of the crash site was going to be a memorial was going to be a national park. Never going to be a community conversation but then he started to meet the families of the victims. they wanted to talk to him and one of them said so. You're a journalist. Tell their story. Meaning the stories of the people who died and what their lives were about for the last twenty years. Tim has done that and he stayed in touch with many of these families. I think they. They all had the challenge of of dealing with their loss in the kind of first weeks and months. They're dealing with the shock of their loss. The shock of their the the sudden loss of their loved ones and thirteen families had received phone calls from their loved ones to so they had that little extra. You know where they talk to the person and they they they sort of got to here close to their final moments on earth So it just was dealing with the fact of a you have this sudden loss of this loved one. And then you're in the national spotlight and people want answers and they want they want to sit down and see how you're doing and how you feel and they had an important story to tell so. I think once families got over the initial shock and and dealing with their immediate loss and they started understanding what they were going to get back in terms of remains and personal effects. They realized this story had a place in the national conversation. When it came to the overall story of of nine eleven. So i think some made the decision that they were going to make sure that story Of the heroics and bravery of their loved ones was told for future generations over the years. Tim has attended several anniversary. Events at the site the first anniversary was obviously. You're still sort of in shock from what happened so that was pure grief. I mean that was just undeniable grief of of how people were dealing with it but you know as we went down into the crash site After the ceremony and the president president bush and first lady laura bush were there you could see families smiling a little bit and talking and getting to know each other and bonding a little bit over their shared experience their shared loss all the while being in this place that was essentially a cemetery. At this point this was the final resting place their loved ones. So i think over time the remembrances have become for some a funeral once a year. I mean they still feel like we just have to work there and it just feels like a funeral. The the reading of the names the tolling of the bells my son. Jeremy logan glick the speeches. You know An elected official. You know talking about the importance of flight ninety three so we gathered to pay tribute to them but also to draw inspiration from their lives and certainly dad no says as the twentieth anniversary approached. She looked at some of her brother's belongings which were recovered at the crash site. Now these are things that i took away and i don't really ever look out of touch. I know there there. I need to know. They're there but just last night gathering these things. It's so much harder than i even think it is or would be because i think you know okay. Twenty years so much time has come. And i'm at a place where the pain never goes away. Obviously i've never closure in this story. I never will but i found a place to put it so that i can lead happy productive life and i know that's what rich would want but when i touch these relics it's it's it's is really tough. Tim says the memorial that's been billed at the site of the crash has helped to create a community among the families and the peaceful solitude of that place is what has made it so powerful for the families. You have these family members who who have now become friends with each other so while they're dealing with in some cases another funeral you know. This'll be the twentieth funeral. They've gone through with for their loved one but they are seeing friends and family who they have grown very close with over the years and i think you sort of have this very small group of people who have bonded over the years and have come to rely on each other and have become friends and they see each other outside of the memorial in some cases So they really have leaned on each other as well which is something that has been just amazing to watch over the years. That's tim lambert. He is multimedia news director and a host at w i t f in harrisburg for the twentieth anniversary. Tim and npr reporter. Scott detro- have produced an audio documentary called sacred ground. The loss grief and sadness of nine eleven is memorialized at several official sites. Like the one we just heard about but then there are many places that became makeshift memorials. In the weeks after the attacks places to connect with others to process and to heal reporter hanna fulmer visited one such place. A neighborhood bar near the world trade center. Mike keane was getting ready for the day at his bar. When the first plane hit the north tower on nine eleven o'hara's restaurant and pub is just two blocks down the street but the south tower blocked the view of the north. He couldn't see what had happened. Bunch of people that come into the bar. They were evacuated from the tower with the tv on. And you could see the whole in the north tower but it was still. We had the small tv in the front and it was hectic the phone was ringing and people random people coming in for drinks at eight thirty they can. It'd be out of work for an hour or two office. Workers were mike's regular clientele. They often came to the bar for a drink. During regular fire. Alarms and evacuations. No one quite grasp the magnitude of what had happened until they watched the second plane hit on the bars. Tv and then. The north tower fell and dustin debris-filled. The bar when we were in here. When i can down so at this place was coming down. Thought that o'hara's didn't collapse but it was in bad shape but in my brought me down the next day and just all the buildings in the area everything with just the buildings that were still up. Just the glass charge glass hanging from all the buildings with all the broken windows. It was just look like one of the scenes from the war movie where you deceive buildings that have been blown up. It was almost eight months before o'hara's reopened and many years before business was fully back to normal the nine eleven museum and memorial opened in twenty eleven and brought a steady flow of tourists to the area. Nine eleven changed. Mike's clientele and it changed the bar today. O'hara's has become in part a place for people to remember the tragedy and pay their respects. So here's a photo looking down the street with the bar on the right here and this is actually joined daylight hours how dark it was down here with the cloud of the dustin degree. Mike and i are sitting at the bar. He showing me the scrapbook of pictures newspaper clippings and letters. He's collected from nine eleven when he turns the page a younger mike and a yellow construction hat stares back in the background a giant pile of debris stands next to a building with all the windows blown out an american flag pokes out from the bottom of the pile us. This is a photograph myself standing on the roof. Five stories up and the remains of the trade center degrees higher than us. This scrapbook sometimes called the book lives at the bar and people know to ask for it. Mike started to collect photos after they reopened as more customers. Ask questions about that day. He added to the book and gave it out to anybody who wanted to see it. He says he regularly passes it around to twenty or more people a day on the day i visited a woman from wisconsin named wendy was flipping through. Its pages where we are here. Okay wow this. Is the first thing i saw on television. Well to wendy's friends have been to the barna previous visit to new york. They brought her so she could see the bar in the scrapbook to in this photo. I mean did it's completely black. Can't see anything through it and and with all this debris it almost looks like you know. Volcanic ash twenty years besides a few photos and a framed. Never forget poster. The walls at o'hara's are covered in patches from firemen. Emt's and police officers. There's hundreds of them from all over the country and around the world people have even started to attach them to the ceiling. It's heart wrenching. In to looking at everything furtively said look at this book roaming in many ways. O'hara's is a fun neighborhood bar but then it has this second identity as a memorial to nine eleven. It seems incompatible people sift through the artifacts from a tragedy while soft rock plays in the background and a few stools over someone else's sipping beer and watching baseball. Why do people come to o'hara's what exactly are they looking for. The general idea was the sense of connection with other people in times once. They really need connection. That's charles vaguely. He's a professor of disaster mental health at two lane university. He says when trying to understand a tragedy people often want to be with other people and a place like o'hara's gives them a place to work through some of their emotions connected to that day natural therapy or whatever. It happens all the time. It's as good or better than he comes there. You could painful in if you're connected to that other person even look into their eyes and trust them and they when you tell them something you know they'll get it. O'hara's is not just for torres. Family members of victims also visit the bar particularly on the anniversary of the attacks. They wanna be with other families. I respond the firemen. The cops they they just feel better about things being in here with all these rape people that show up on that day and nothing's discussed about that day. Which more of a coming together. Pay respects for those that passed and just being with one another for a lot of folks around the country. This anniversary. The twentieth anniversary of nine eleven feels like a big one but not at o'hara's every year same. I six twelve here hours. Twenty twenty one. It's all going to be the same as far as the the people that come that are here every year and with with those people. It's not going to change them. At what year is that story was reported by hannah. Fulmer our show for this week. The pulse is a production of whyy in philadelphia. You can find us wherever you get your podcast. Our health and science reporters are alan. You list hung and jets lehman sojourner. A habit is our health equity fellow charlie. Kyler is our engineer. Lindsey lazar skis our producer. I mike and scott. Thank you for listening. Behavioral health reporting on the pulse is supported by the thomas scattered good behavioral health foundation an organization that is committed to thinking doing and supporting innovative approaches in integrated healthcare. Whyy's health and science reporting is supported by generous grant from the public health management corporations public health fund ph mc gladly supports whyy and its commitment to the production of services that improve our quality of life.
One Year After The First Step Act 2019-12-23
"The Hey it's the takeaway on December twenty third I'm WNYC's Shumita. Basu in for tenzing Vega Today on the podcast one year After the passage of a bipartisan criminal justice reform at a look at what the measure has achieved. I think the first APP actually opened a door and the eyes is of many people for those who are incarcerated formerly incarcerated plus with Christmas just days away. We'll hear how non-christians in the United States are celebrating reading at this time of the year in their own ways putting the Havana history proves that we are one and the solidarity and this kindness and this love is in a way a form of a little resistance and itself and why some Lgbtq fans have a bad feeling about a brief moment of queer representation. Listen in the new star wars it makes them get to seem progressive without actually having to be progressive and that's kind of the way that they play their publicity game all right. Let's get into it. We start with the first step act one year ago president. Then trump passed a law that promised criminal justice reform across the country. We call it the first step back. I sort of like the idea of just calling. Criminal Justice. Justice reform the bipartisan first. Step at authorized the early release of federal prisoners who were convicted of low level drug offenses and have worked through rehabilitation programs and one year later. More than three thousand inmates have been released. One of them is Nora. Yahya I did ten years in Danbury and then lowered my security level to camp and from there I was released upon the F. Essay which put me out out March eleventh two thousand nineteen which took off approximately three years of my sentence. Nora was in for possession and intent to distribute cocaine. Oh Kane I think one of the excitement of the first act is that people could get closer to the families and continue that Bonn for Nora besides sites being away from her children incarceration meant enduring painful health issues with no relief while I was incarcerated. My leg start hurt. Sunni in I also had like two lumps in my legs so one night I couldn't even get up. They actually had a call to amraams but it was only after her release this year that she was finally able to undergo back surgery completely. Change all the pain in my legs. I feel like one hundred percent percent like the person I was prior to all even after the long-overdue medical treatment for Nora re entry was challenging it. It was very hard not just technology wise. That's that's something in its own south. That was hard and very challenging also started out in a new state which which is New York but I had to start over with my children. Who are who aren't children? Who are adults now but the first step act led her to criminal final justice reform organizations that helped guide her post incarceration life? They introduced me to a computer round. There was just the basics of surf. The Internet are net things that are just totally foreign to me. They also helped me with my medical assistance because I hadn't had the proper medical treatment and I also took a program. I'm to become license for food handler. Now Nora works as an advocate for people who are incarcerated. I think the first step actually opened the door in the eyes of many people for those who are incarcerated for me incarcerated for more on the first step act and where it is one year in. I'm joined by Jonathan Terry Policy Advisor at John. Jay College of Criminal Justice and Louis L. read national organizer for cut fifty a bipartisan initiative. To cut crime and incarceration in half across the country. Thanks to both of you for being here on the show. Thanks for having me on Jonathan. I tell us how the first step act is intended to work when it comes to early release so the first step back includes several provisions for Federal Prison Reform it eliminates the three strike rule which is a law wow that was originally meant to provide harsher punishments for those who have several federal convictions so previously you could get a life sentence. Thanks for having three convictions. Convictions that's been reduced to twenty five years. Since it also extends the two thousand ten Fair Sentencing Act which which reduced the disparity that could be given in a sentence for selling crack cocaine versus powder cocaine also brings people closer to home. Ideally really five hundred. Miles is now limit that people are supposed to be allowed to be away from home wind and the federal prison it includes a lot of other quality of life you might right say provision for federal prisons as well so women who are pregnant are no longer able to be shackled juveniles longer able to be put in solitary confinement Also expanded re entry programs which was mentioned a little bit before so the process of going back into society after prison is a AH arduous one and so the first step act Apportioned millions of dollars for a lot of those programs to help people as they enter. It was also meant to create risk assessment tools which look at someone record and various other factors to decide whether whether or not they are arrested society and that way Ideally we are able to look at people allow them to exit from prison. And no because this person isn't going to be arrested anyone we feel okay letting them out even potentially earlier. Let me ask you about sentence reduction because as I mentioned just a minute ago more than three thousand awesome people have been released now under this act. Can you explain what the process looks like for them to have gotten their sentences reduced right so a lot of the the people who are having their sentences reduced were originally sentenced in the seventies and eighties as part of the war on drugs and so the first step actor. It just says that since we sentence people differently now We are going to look at those instances that were given before and if they are no longer in line with what we what sentence you currently we are going to reduce those sentences Many of them. Those incidences are reduced through petition. Some are reduced dramatically There is also an expansion in of good time. Which says that if you are incarcerated? But you're taking part in programs that are meant to rehabilitate you. Whether that's job training or drug treatment or something of that sort you can have time taken off of your sentence and so there are different provisions to allow people to reduce their sentences and about a thousand seven hundred people have gotten Martin reductions in their sentence Since the first step back into law and there's a reduction of about six years average for people who have that reduction Lewis. Let me bring you into the conversation. Jonathan just mentioned the war on drugs in the seventies and eighties. This act is mainly aimed at people who were arrested. During at that time period many of them were black men. What do we know about the demographics of the people who've been released under the APP so far you for decades the criminal justice a conversation tation among our political leaders especially both on the state and national level could be characterized as a race to the bottom? It was a competition for who could be the toughest on crime who lock up the most people in throw away the key It was also a conversation that was defined by dangerous rhetoric with no regard for empathy. The or second chances. In essentially a dehumanized people I was one of those individuals that was in that conversation in two thousand. I was sentenced to a term of imprisonment of one hundred eighty eight months and for our listening audience I don't want to Belabor the point in terms of you using your fingers and toes trying to figure that out. Oh that's approximate deaths. Approximately sixteen years. I served almost fourteen years off that sixteen year. Federal prison sentence for White collar related offenses most of the individuals by whom I was incarcerated with were not individuals that had got caught up in the war on drugs. It's in the seventies and eighties. In fact these individuals Were caught up in the mid ninety two the early two thousands Especially after after the nine hundred ninety four Clinton Crime Bill Ninety one percent of the individuals that were released under that particular provision at Jonathan talked about as as it relates to the crack cocaine provision ninety one percent of those individuals were African Americans. So let me just quantify these numbers of for you for second to dates seven thousand people total have been released under the first step act I should say seven thousand people. Total have have received significant can't reductions And they have been released under the first step back. Ninety one percent of those individuals happen to be African. American who African Americans who were sentenced under those draconian of crack cocaine laws Particularly pointing back to nineteen eighty seven moving up to nine hundred ninety four and and Up to date until about approximately two thousand ten that has totaled that seven thousand number that has totaled approximately seventeen thousand years of human freedom that have been restored back to our community. Now think about this in the Christmas. Season Jesus was crucified. Approximately approximately two thousand years ago. And if we look at the numbers that actually places us back into B. C.. So I think that this is something that a significant I am literally Pulled over on the side of the road Twenty minutes away from MDC Brooklyn where. I am going to be with family. Who is going to have their loved? One Return back to them In this Christmas season after having served twenty years on a life sentence in that individual is going to be released as as a result as a result of the first act and that's as a result of the advocacy With people such as myself to. PK Sam David. Sylvian Cut Fifties co-founder Van Jones and Jessica Jackson and the many other advocates and organizations that was in his Bipartisan coalition and. Make sure that we got this bill across the finish line. Louis let me ask you something. Because one of the acts major provisions as John mentioned earlier was to place incarcerated individuals within a five hundred mile radius of their families that they would be closer to them. Why was that such an important part of this legislation? Yes so the reason why. The five hundred mile provision is significantly the important within the first step act is because it does one of several things number one in make sure is that individuals are connected with their families and that those relationships are cultivated between parents and their children number two it brings about a level of proximity to the individual individual who was incarcerated and also to the community and number three it actually reduces the probability of individuals who are incarcerated from from participating and issues that very well could bring about institutional infractions so for instance if an individual is in proximity to of their last last known address and they know that they are potentially going to see their mother their father the family members a significant others etc.. They're going to be less likely early. To be an engaged in fights assaults you know in the likes thorough Jonathan. The acts when it was passed last year it was hailed by president. Trump is a huge chief. -Ment in being able to bring the two parties together as Lewis mentioned. It was largely a bipartisan effort. Why did this act appeal to politicians on on both sides of the aisle so criminal justice reform brings people together in part because there's a strong moral Push for it. It's hard to to argue and a lot of cases that someone who may have made a mistake should be put away for such a long time It's also incredibly expensive. We spend billions of dollar incarcerating people Especially here in the United States. We have the world's largest prison population we do. We have over two point one million people in prison in the United States leads And I think that whether regardless of where you fall politically you can see that we are wasting a lot of money on putting people in cages from those people could be contributing to the economy. Those people could Be With their families and so it really brings people together on either side. And of course Jared Kushner has a father who was incarcerated and so he understands some of issues that are being That are at play here and he was able to help assure along the the political coalition That pushed through the first step back and I think that we are also thinking a lot. About mass incarceration The fact that we do have so many people put away The draconian laws that were just mentioned have really torn apart communities. And we're able to you now fight that together and I think everyone can see the value in that Lewis. I know that you're very involved in communities where people are returning home from prison. Can you talk about some of the the biggest hurdles for them. Once they're out. Yeah absolutely so I think there are things that are obvious and show up in a stat sheets you know these are the things in terms himself. Employment Housing Insecurities ETC likes thereof. I think that one of the major issues Dad I act seeks to remedy is the simplicities of things such as not having an identification card Wanted to provision visions within a bill actually requires all federal people who are being released to make sure that they have access to appropriate identification when you think about that that may not necessarily seem like much quote unquote much but when you think about how an individual could potentially Have incidental contact with with police. A with Wi- with law enforcement and that individual potentially have their term of supervision Violated because of incidental contact because he or she may not may be in a place where they may be accosted by the police. They could be Riding as a passenger in a vehicle An officer ask for that individuals identification that individual can't produce it because he or she has not necessarily secured it because you need an ID a d just to get an ID and all the bureaucracy involved with that that individual could actually be you know a hauled into the local police department apartment just to check out who they who they are and when they are there that could potentially trigger a violation for police contact. So you know Vera things in terms of like employment yes people need to be back And or Not even back because most of the individuals who are actually incarcerated they they may not necessarily have had employment in the first place so they they need to enter into our workforce. They need to make sure that they have adequate housing. They need to make sure that they have access to appropriate health care treatment etc and so one of the things that we're doing it cut. Fifty is one of the several following. We have partner Wickliffe through our relationship with Kim Kardashian. They have given US ten thousand a free lift rideshare credits that we are distributing to individuals who are being released under the first step so that they can have access to You know just you know employment opportunities healthcare opportunities etc Healthcare appointments etc.. Say in addition we have also partnered with talk space. Talk space the online therapeutic a platform so that individuals can decompress from what I call The new PTSD in prison traumatic stress disorder. So that they can. Have you know a safe place just is to you know. Talk about the the TRAUMAS or indoor the vicarious trauma that they've actually observe as a result of being car serrated. Let Me Bring Jonathan back in here for just a moment because because this law I should mention affects people incarcerated at the federal level. It doesn't even touch the roughly one point three million people in state prisons. The sentence are we seeing similar reform movements at the state level. Jonathan the federal system incarcerates more than any individual state system but the state systems account for the vast majority of people in prison so the federal system is about ten percent of the total. US prison population. And so we. We are seeing some of these reforms being put in place Not all of them are prison reform. Some of them are broader criminal justice reforms but Where they are being put in place? really depends news on the state. New York is just past new bail laws which are going to affect shortly and twenty twenty year in the New Year and Other places are thinking about you know legalizing marijuana or thinking about how do we safely race past convictions. And some of that is happening through. Who advocate some of? It is happening through Progressive District Attorney's And so at the state level. Not only do you have more people incarcerated but you have in some ways a more complicated it system just because so many different actors are involved in making particular decisions And so we do. See these reforms but it'll be harder urge to push through in a lot of ways on the state level Just to get everyone on board. And let's talk about politics now on the federal level because many advocates have acknowledged the first step act is a major victory but they've also mentioned that the next step is focusing on those who've been found guilty of violent offenses and perhaps even rethinking policing on a grander scale. Would either of those approaches be able to gain bipartisan support in your opinion Jonathan. That's really hard to say a lot of previous bills that were not able to be passed. lost a lot of support. Because they were. They pushed the too far of advocates. Say That I didn't go far enough because it doesn't eliminate mandatory minimums Because it doesn't push far enough on good time credits We're wondering about what is electric monitoring do there is a new Thought Within Criminal Justice Reform Circle that we are moving towards e commerce ration- where People's information will be collected And where we'll know where someone is at all times we'll have a certain amount of information built up which is a different kind of Captivity Anyway and so there are a lot of sort of fights that that are yet to be had but violent crime in particular is a really difficult I think even For people on the left who are have been pushing for various various kinds of criminal justice reform for years Thinking about releasing someone who you know may have sold drugs at some point. It's very different from thinking about what do we do with someone who it might have heard someone on the street may have even killed someone And so those will be much harder battles and I at this. Point can't quite see receiving leaving bipartisan support. But the first step act was fantastic because it showed that there is some possibility I was once told doing this. Work that if you don't believe that you can make a difference in push forward. Then why are you doing the work at all so I'll stay optimistic. Jonathan Terry is a policy advisor at John. Jay College of Criminal Justice and Louis L. Read is a national organizer therefore cut fifty. Thanks to both of you for joining us. Thanks for having me on I everyone I'm Shumita Basu from. WNYC filling in for ten Zena Vega and this is the takeaway. Christmas is almost here. But I'm sure I didn't have to tell you that Christmas music has been playing in stores since November Colorful Christmas lights have been up for weeks and commercials featuring Santa Claus seemed to be on a never ending loop but there are millions of people in this country. Three who don't celebrate Christmas at least not in the traditional sense we asked you how you celebrate the season in your own way. Here's the story of why we put a hit job on our Christmas tree. That's Isabela a New Yorker who happens to be the roommate of takeaway associate producer Jamaica. Verma this year. She has chosen to decorate her Christmas tree with a hit job. It's kind of funny because growing up. I did celebrate Christmas in a way but not necessarily early religious. The more so culturally. I grew up in a mixed household of Christian Pakistan Muslim beliefs and my dad never felt completely comfortable being from August on not celebrating celebrating Christmas himself. Growing up never felt comfortable giving presents or decorating the tree but did so for solidarity of my mother now. Isabella lives in a household with other people from the South Asian diaspora and with political turbulence around the world and especially hostility toward Muslims. uh-huh she says lacing the job on the tree demonstrates two things pride in her upbringing and a kind of solidarity so something as simple as putting the hip hop on a Christmas Christmas tree when everything else was happening all over the globe with the South Asian diaspora trying to disconnect. Just trying to separate US prove that we are different. This putting avenue. Christmas tree proves that we are one and the solidarity and this kindness. This love is in a way form of a little resistance in itself all right so we invited you to tell us how you put your own twist on Christmas. And here's what you shared with us. Hi I'm Darla from Portland Oregon as a child who divorced I. I celebrate Hanukkah and Christmas so the side of my family that celebrates Hanukkah actually like American culture than emphasis on gift. Giving maybe spend more my mom and I exchanged a Hanukkah to get two meal every year. My Dog got twelve hundred. Plus my name is Collette O'Connor and I'm from Halifax Massachusetts. We celebrate Christmas at my my home during the day. We make sure to call relatives. Who can't be here so everyone is thought of and the remaining days for sharing gratitude which we do with a quiet meal together in conversation? Nina dual from Richmond. California my a reaction to Christmas is unsettled. I do you not feel like there's acknowledgement of other people celebrating other things we're just been bartered with red and wight Chris. This is hi. This is Rick Tomase from Needham Massachusetts. We enjoy the trappings of Christmas. But we do try to. Emphasize is the significance of the holiday from the religious aspects. THIS IS BILL IN NEW JERSEY. What we do this time of year? Is something called friends miss. It's a lot like friends. Giving it's a multicultural winter activity that's specifically nonreligious. Basically it's a night of fun. It's a night of multinational national and multi-ethnic foods and it's time to play games and hang out with the people that you really love. Thanks for sharing. All of your thoughts. I'll share with you now all my spin on the holiday. This is my first married Christmas. My husband and I did the thing. A few months ago in a nondenominational ceremony and I was raised in a house that it didn't really celebrate Christmas. My Dad is Indian and my mom is Iranian now. My husband coming from an Italian family was an is really big. Uh on Christmas so this year I added a little flair to our Christmas free. I strung up our read. Gold White Indian garland's the girl is that we exchanged changed as part of our wedding celebration. I think they make a very fitting addition to our tree this year and I imagine for years to come and remember you can always give us a call and share. Are Your thoughts at eight. Seven seven eight my take now. We'll look at other ways that the Christmas creep influences the whole month of December namely its impact on another religious holiday to help. I understand the history of how Christmas shape Hanukkah celebrations in America. We're joined by two guests. Emma Green is a staff writer at the Atlantic where she covers politics politics policy and religion. Emma welcome back to the takeaway things so much and Jonathan. SAARNA is a professor of American Jewish history at Brandeis University Jonathan within thank you for joining us joy to Byu. Jonathan many people assume that Hanukkah is one of the most important holidays Judaism because of its strong cultural presence since in the United States. But that's not exactly true right not exactly true. In early America you would have a hard time finding much evidence. It's the Jews talked about. Hanukkah the high holidays or important Passover is very important hannukah really emerges emerges in the nineteenth century they talk about in the eighteen seventies the revival of the Jewish wish national holiday of Hanukkah and gift-giving actually shifts from another holiday known as Purim to Hanukkah and and then of course Hannukah is magnified through the twentieth century in response to the magnification of Christmas. And let me let Emma cut in there. Because you've written about this as well. Why did Hanukkah become the Jewish response to Christmas in the United States? You see in the middle of the Twentieth Twentieth Century after the war when Jews are moving to the suburbs there starting these synagogues and trying to join country clubs and in general general. Have the American experience that we think of so stereotypically in the nineteen fifties and I think we see that today were Hanukkah has now been elevated to be kind of the equal and opposite reaction to Christmas something to give Jewish children feeling that they can fit in just like the Christian children who are celebrating Christmas at their schools us. How are those efforts met? In the United States it was common to find Jews. Even Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis had a Christmas Christmas tree and lots of Jews sang secular Christmas carols. It's not surprising that some of those carols roles were really written by Jews like Irving Berlin about A White Christmas of the feel of the lights lights and so on but the East European Jews some of whom had very negative associations with Chris Smith's in the lands that they came from Remembering that these were a days when they were frightened persecuted. They certainly certainly were not going to take on Christmas. And as we move through the twentieth century we see Konica. Aw arising as a kind of Jewish answer to Christmas Cindy there were some Jews who tried to tell their children. Oh you're so oh lucky. Hanukkah is eight days of gifts but the sense was. Let's have something that distinguishes us us Emma sitting across from me and nodding her head here. How was Hannukah celebrated before it started to grow in popularity here in the US as a response wants to Christmas well one of the interesting things about Hanukkah religiously is that it actually doesn't have that much of a starring role role in the Jewish calendar? There aren't that many obligations that go with Hanukkah and you don't have to spend that much time in synagogue especially relative to Yunky poor four or Russia. Shawna what's interesting to me about. Hanukkah is that it has been able to take this out size role in the American public imagination in part because Jews were free to go out and celebrate publicly. They could take their minora to a friend's house or have friends over to light the candles but it's also because is it's kind of a low-key holiday and so there's a lot of freedom and flexibility about how people celebrate. Jonathan maybe you can talk to us a little bit more about efforts by Jews in the United States early on to adopt Christmas as a secular holiday. Do you think that Hanukkah could become secular in a similar way. I I think that there are many Jews who observe Hannukah who do not view it as having in deep religious content might even have a hard time talking much about its history And and in that sense it has grown secularize up but at the same time. I'm very struck. By how recent is that. Hanukkah did move into the public square as late as the nineteen fifties store. Windows did not have Konica Konica even in New York and a you didn't see minorities out on the streets that's really a development that begins wins in the nineteen seventies with the Kabba religious organization. And they actually have several court cases in which sure they have to fight for the right to have a Hanukkah minora in the public square. That right is eventually confirmed by the Supreme Court which really says that the Konica Minora is in a way equivalent legally speaking to the Christmas tree. If one could in the public square the other can be in the Public Square in fact Jonathan. I want to jump in here because Emma wrote about this decision and you found actually but the supreme court treated aided Christmas trees in public a little bit differently than Minora's and public is that right. Well one of the questions that was at stake here and there have been a series of cases about out. This issue is whether something like the Nativity scene which we see in All sorts of public spaces is the equivalent of the minora weather weather that can be in a government building or a government owned park. And there's a a sort of differentiation here that the court uses or the legal legal thinking uses which is to say there's a difference between some sort of overtly religious symbol that seems to be an expression of what the government believes or supports ports versus these communal symbols. That we now see ubiquitously even at a courthouse building or add a government administrative building. You you see that kind of equality and equal weight give into something that shows a public expression of what these various groups in the United States celebrate at this time I feel. There's a lot of hand wringing over the commercialization of the holidays whether that's Christmas or Hanukkah. How would you say that gift-giving has or has ever been part of the tradition of Hanukkah one universal principle that I think guides Christmas and Hanukkah and maybe even holiday holiday celebrations around this time for families? That don't celebrate. Those two holidays is that we love consumer capitalism here in the United States and right now at this season we see from every corner stores and malls everyone trained to incentivize more more gift giving and this is something that's lamented seasonally. Everyone trying to say. Oh these holidays you have a deeper meaning about family or about faith not about gift giving but really million American culture we see that this all consuming force this incentive to buy stuff especially for your kids has been able to take over these holidays days so in some ways even though Hanukkah has been set apart as a separate holiday I separate people there really is a lot. That's overlapping about Hanukkah and Christmas Christmas. We've been talking mainly about what happens when Jewish populations from other parts of the world I came to America and were attempting to assimilate but are there other examples of people from other religions other faiths coming to America and sort of adapting their practices to the American Christmas culture. Sure Jonathan another example of this is what we've seen with the wally as something festival of Lights Celebrated in this season of the year and there are other groups. I think that have learned from Jews that you can simultaneously be part of the season and apart from it which is really what I think. The Jewish community has tried to do over the the last two decades. Emma I feel like we've spent a lot of this conversation. Framing this as if only negative things have come out of the Christmas vacation of other other holidays but what the positive effects is a good for all of us in the US to share celebrations at this time of year. You know I think the story of Christmas is a very American story in the sense that as we've been discussing it's become a shared celebration. That has a lot of secular meaning and takes over over our shopping malls in our streets but it just as much of an American story to have different groups of people whether their ancestors came over as Jews who's in the nineteenth century to whether their parents and grandparents are recent immigrants from the seventies or eighties or nineties. And I think that's such an American story because in some ways this is a country that's made up of people who come from all of these different places and traditions and who figure out their own spin on those traditions in the American in context. There's so much diversity here. Around this time of year you see Orthodox Christians who celebrate Christmas a few weeks later than Roman Catholics or Protestants artists in much of the United States. You see Muslims. who have figured out ways like going bowling or trying to avoid shopping malls of relating to the Christmas celebration Gratien and you have a lot of families who are both families so both Hanukkah and Christmas or Christmas and a little something else or Hanukkah and a little something else? All all of these stories to me are very much the Americanise of this time of year people trying to figure out how their particular identity should be in relation to to this Reason for the season that we call Christmas. Emma Green is a staff writer at the Atlantic where she covers politics policy and religion and Donovan. SAARNA is a professor of American Jewish history at Brandeis University. Thanks to both of you for joining me. Think so maverick you this is the takeaway from WNYC NPR wrecks in collaboration with W. G. B. H.. Radio in Boston Wjr this weekend. The third and final installment of the latest Star Wars Saga hit theaters. The rise of Skywalker ties together. The previous eight films news in just under two and a half hours and in that time it also managed to sleaze in something that those other films left out that there are LGBTQ TQ plus people in a galaxy far far away and in the case of the LGBTQ community. You know it was. It was important to me that people go to see the smooth. Feel that they're being represented in the film. Director J.J. Abrams during an interview with variety earlier. This month in the lead up to the film's release. He hinted there would the real LGBTQ representations in the rise of Skywalker but when the film premiered last week it was finally revealed that two minor her female characters kiss during split-second seen many are saying it's yet another example of a major Hollywood franchise teasing LGBTQ Hugh Representation and then not following through in a meaningful way joining me now is Kyle Buchanan pop culture reporter at the New York Times Kyle. Hi Hi thanks for being on the show having also with me is emily vander were critic at large for Vox Emily Hi welcome. It's so great to be here now. I don't I WANNA spoil too much for our listeners. Who Haven't seen the movie? So let's leave plot aside as much as we can but both of you have seen the movie kyle. Maybe you can start by telling us about the same sex kissing in the New Star Wars movie and why it's gotten such a big reaction. Sure I'd be happy to tell you. Because I think people who've actually wash the movie if they blinked might have missed it so let me fill them in as well. There is an extremely brief moment in the third act. Where a character? We're who has had at that point. Maybe two lines certainly wasn't named kisses her female partner in a victory celebration of sorts parts goes by extremely fast. And you know it's that had been a thing that people had seen in nineteen seventy seven say when the first star wars film came out. It would've been pretty pretty significant but I think the irony here is that especially this last film. The rights of skywalker is doing so much. Try to satisfy fan demands. But it's it's not really doing it in a visionary bold way that would satisfy anybody's asks and requests and so even though there have been fans who've asked for the characters actors played by John Boyega and Oscar Isaac to have some sort of romantic relationship in Star Wars. This is sort of the SOP to that. And I don't think it's going to satisfy all that many people. Now we just heard the director J.J. Abrams a few minutes ago. That was him speaking during the press tour for the film and he mentioned Lgbtq Representation. He went out of his way to say it. In fact there are some critics who have called what he said now. A classic example of Queer Baiting. Emily maybe you can explain Ryan what that is so queer. Baiting is the idea that there is some sort of movie or TV. Show especially council happened with books or other forms of fictional media Where two characters who are presented as platonic friends within the text of the show then fans often become you know interested in the idea idea of them having a romantic relationship? An example of this from these new star wars movies would be thin and po who are not really presented as romantic partners nurse in that first movie. The Force Awakens but the Internet took that and ran with it and these future movies have sort of played to that interesting ways a far more egregious example was the TV show. Sherlock which recently aired with benedict cumberbatch and Martin Freeman and that show the fans started sort of shipping which means hoping to see two people. The end up together Sherlock and Watson on that show and Then yeah it did not did not transpire and it turned into like the creators of bathing. The those expectations without actually doing anything about it and you'll be really kind of a nasty way to deal with your phantom now to go back to star wars for a second and what Abrahams said during the press tour. Why the fake out? I guess it's easy to assume that dipping an ambiguous toe into LGBTQ representations is meant to appease certain audience who you want to see that representation without going so far as to anger more conservative audiences. How how much is it about that dynamic? It's definitely about out that dynamic like there is sort of this air of they're trying to sort of make the right people mad by which I mean the really extremist people who don't WanNa see any LGBTQ not queue representation and like you know if there's a two second kiss most of America's GonNa be like okay whatever but like they're also not trying to push the envelope in terms of that representation in ways that might force people to sort of rethink their preconceptions or their prejudices or anything like that. It's just like the least risky way eh to deal with this material but also in a way that gets them these headlines in you know publications that are like Oh bold new ground for the Star Wars Franchise when you see the movie and and it's literally nothing like that so it makes them get to seem progressive without actually having to be progressive. And that's kind of the way that they play their publicity game. I WANNA ask each of you. What meaningful representation would look like glad the LGBTQ media advocacy organization uses this metric that they made up? It's sort of similar to the back. Del Test they call it the Vito Russo test after glads co founder and to pass Vito Russo test. A film has to have a character that is identifiable. LGBTQ that character was not solely defined by their sexual orientation or gender identity and that character must be tied to the plot in such a way that their removal would have a significant effect. So emily why don't you start. Do those criteria sound right to you when we ask what is meaningful representation. Would you add anything to it. I certainly don't disagree with any of those criteria. I'm happy to have that sort of as a starting starting point but I think that you know there's room for stories about LGBTQ plus lives like that are actually about our lived experiences and it's not like they don't exist. There's plenty of great queer art made every year. It's just that it's not happening. In major studio franchise films I think if we're looking for a major studio franchise film to tell stories that you know fit that sort of glad description. It's not impossible but it's also like you know it's it's it's hard hard to talk about our identities and a nuanced way when aliens are invading the planet. Or something like that. So I I do think there is. There's room for improvement But a lot all the stuff that we're looking for is often happening like indie film and Television and you know stuff. That's supported by Patriarch by independent artists. I think emily is right. And I and I think that queer viewers just sort of gotten used to expecting looking for that representation elsewhere which is why it would be a significant new thing to see it in the form of the Superhero or science fiction spectacular and. I don't think it has to be you know as emily also said these films. Don't offense for very long to consider the you know the minutia of the characters in their lives but just the presence accounts for something. I mean. Events Endgame culminates with his finale. This orgiastic finale of dozens upon dozens upon dozens of characters. And you know wouldn't be so hard for just one or maybe a couple of those people to be on the spectrum somewhere That's how life is and if these movies are drawing from life and then making something super powered it just seems like a notable omission for the only only times for them to acknowledge that people exist is when they shuttle in a character for one sane. Kyle Buchanan is a pop culture reporter and award season in columnist at the New York Times and Emily Vander were is a critic at large for. Vox thank you both for joining us. And that's our show for today but we do WANNA keep hearing from our LGBTQ listeners. On this one. Do you feel represented in any Hollywood franchises. And how could the industry improve on clear representation. Send us a tweet at the takeaway or write to us on our facebook page and if you missed anything anything from today's show or you just want to listen back again check out our podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I'm WNYC's should meet the best. Sue Feeling very lucky to be in today A.. And tomorrow for Tanzania Vega this is the takeaway.
Security costs after last weeks Capitol attack
"This marketplace podcast is supported by deloitte private offering business insight and strategies tailored to the needs of privately held companies to help them navigate. Today's uncertainty and build resilience online at deloitte dot com slash. us slash cova d- and buy out systems the application platform that enables every company to innovate through software. Out systems accelerates the development of business critical cloud applications build the difference without systems for more information visit out systems dot com security costs in the wake of last week's attack at the capital. I'm david brancaccio. The pandemic has really done a number on the budgets of state governments. When fewer working we pay less tax even as demands on state governments to spend more on healthcare unemployment benefits help with food are way up now with less than a week till the presidential inauguration law enforcement costs could rise. The fbi has warned all fifty states should look out for potentially violent protests. Marketplace's mitchell hartman. Reports the continuing threat to state houses across the country means more expenses for state law enforcement and in some cases national guard. According to robert macree at john jay college of criminal justice personnel. Obviously i than technology and physical security and cyber security. He says extending security perimeters around major public buildings adding more surveillance. Those are one time costs but the personnel. Hundreds of additional armed officers will cost money as long as the threats and violence. Last state governments are going to bring in not just our capital police say troopers police from the city of many of them opposite with overtime that that has to be paid there may be a longer term in spending to protect government buildings public officials and their families akin to the security ramp up after nine eleven. Andy arena formerly investigated right wing extremists for the fbi and now directs. The detroit crime commission is not just a rental legislatures. It's down to the lowest levels of right if you're not doing what i big is right. I'm going to go to your house and harassed family local law enforcement you know. In little rural towns are gonna have to be more locked in with sharing intelligence state and local budgets will have to absorb those added costs at a time when they're already strapped for cash due to the pandemic says political scientist cal jolson at southern methodist university. Increase spending. Just cure state capitals. You're probably gonna cut somewhere else to come well with that additional money for our jake jolson says that likely means education and social services will take a hit since they account for the bulk of state. Budgets i'm mitchell hartman for marketplace that's focusing on the washington. Dc region with a normal inauguration businesses. There might expect a boost but and democ and now extra tight security airbnb says it will cancel and block all reservations in the washington metro area. During this inauguration. week marketplace's andy euler has that tiki. Tnt is a barn and rum distillery about three quarters of a mile from the white house under todd. Thrashers preparation for the inauguration. Lock the doors. See you later getting out of town. He says normally they throw in inauguration party and his bar is busy all week long this year. He says it's just not worth it. I'd rather everyone stay home. Stay and wants. The city gets under control again. We're gonna we'll go back to work. He says things were already bad because of covid but his bar is gonna make it calling hopkinson as the executive director of the dupont circle business improvement district in the heart of dc. She says many businesses are taking a wait and see approach when it comes to their operating hours next week or if they'll be open at all so there's a certain level of readiness and being prepared to to pivot and to react new situations the mayor of washington. Dc extended an indoor restaurant dining bam among other restrictions through january twenty second citing public safety and health concerns. I made for marketplace hard to divine a theme from the early market numbers this morning. The s&p future is up two points. The dow futures up two tenths percent nasdaq future is down two tenths percent. Ten year interest rate up at one point one one percent cryptocurrency bitcoin steady enough this morning. Thirty eight thousand one hundred dollars and change still up there but off of its all time high of last week. This marketplace podcast is supported by personal capital. Who can help you take control of your finances no matter where you are. Download the personal capital app or start today at personal capital dot com to get free professional grade financial tools including retirement. Planner and fi analyzer. Want to talk. Personal capital has registered advisers by phone or online for qualified users personal capital. There's no place like financial confidence. Federal workers and military service members are seeing smaller paychecks. This month. they're paying more in social security taxes to repay a tax deferral. They were forced to take last fall. As part of a trump stimulus marketplace's nancy marshall. Genzer joins us now. Nancy why are they having to catch up on these tax payments again. Now with this was part of president. Trump's temporary payroll tax break very few private companies participated but most federal workers were forced to. They did get fatter. Paychecks last fall's social security payroll taxes. Were not taken out. from september. Through december president trump characterized this as a tax cut but the money has to be paid back because only congress can cut taxes trump had pushed lawmakers to make the payroll tax deferral permanent but they were these workers able to prepare for what are now smaller paychecks in the winter here. Not necessarily janet holtz black at the urban tax policy center us. This is an unpleasant surprise for many workers if they knew what was happening then perhaps they would have reduced some of their spending. But i think for many people. This is coming as a shock to the system. They're getting the bill now just the same time as they're getting all the other bills from the christmas holidays nancy. How will federal workers have to work this off and catch up with the tax. They owe initially. They would've only had four months. David but congress did change that to a year or nancy marshall genzer. Thank you and dateline parma italy. The news from the european union's food safety agency. Worms are a okay to eat. Scientists looked into yellow mealworm and they're fine either powdered protein additive or the whole dried worm as a handy snack. What's with the face. Do you not eat gummy worms all the time. I assume these are the same only less sweet and more savory iraq out your marketplace morning report from apm american public media. I'm justin ho with marketplace. The economy is changing so fast. It's hard to keep up to our latest. Podcast is here to help. It's called the marketplace minute. Give just sixty seconds and we'll bring you the latest on what's happening in the economy three times a day market updates business news in how the numbers affect your personal economy. We'll tell you what you need to know and why it matters. Just ask your smart speaker to play the marketplace minute for find it wherever you get your podcasts.
Alejo Rodriguez of Exodus Transitional Community
"For example. Rabbi classrooms thirty people. If one or two students failed to gotta get left back well, they didn't get it. It happens right. If. Five. People fail that steps noticeable. Of Sixty six percent of thirty people in the class veil the question now. What does the teacher? was. Doing. What is the institution doing? You're listening to works of justice the podcast by pen America. And the Cuny Law Review Article. V of Sphere Legacy Mass Incarceration Parole Board abuses of people serving parole eligible licenses Alejo. Rodriguez reported that a study of thousands of Pearl decisions from the past several years, found that fewer than one in six black or Hispanic men was released at his first hearing, compared with one in four eight none. This massive disparity was found among people serving parole eligible sentences for small time property crimes. If Perot eligible individuals convicted of a violent offense, there was a ninety percent denial rate across the board. This report helped to expose systemic racial discrimination and parole decisions as well as the parole board's blatant discriminatory practices against people accused of violent felonies, an issue that away Rodriguez this week's guest on temperature. Check works to change. Community lays on and assistant program developer for Exodus transitional community away. Rodriguez works with individuals who are in re entry transition in East Harlem and beyond. He commits to helping people reclaim the humanity denied by the justice systems discrimination by way of many different roles as a public speaker, a published poet and events, organizer, teaching artists and screenwriter before working at Exodus Alejo served as the mentor and Alumni Coordinator for the prisoner reentry institutes. College initiative at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He's also an executive board member of both the parole preparation project and network support services. Away holds a masters of professional city is from new. York, theological, seminary and Bachelor of Liberal Arts degree from Syracuse. University. I, Nicholas Natoli Pen America's prison injustice rating program had the opportunity to ask who, about parole reentry in Cova in this week's episode of temperature check cove nineteen behind bars. Highly, how thank you for joining us today? Hi, how you doing how you doing lead lead to be here I was just wondering. If before we begin if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, and how your experiences have shaped the work that you do at Exodus transitional community. Okay so My Name's is Rodriguez. Current need the arts and civic engagement coordinator Exodus Transitional Community which is a reentry provider individuals coming home via rikers island upstate New York authors provide general services for individuals who had contactable justice system. our founder actually time and went to we actually himself in in the mid to late nineties, and was really rule to build that it could be done a different way or have a different approach to strategy was come from people were directly impacted themselves so today staffers approaching fifty people I think ninety percent of these overstaffed is former impacted. By consistent in one way or the other and or family members indirectly. including myself, and so I came home in two thousand seventeen after seven thirty two years in prison for felony murder charge. Was denied parole. Actually had eighteen year to life sentence, and I was battling Karol for or boxing fourteen years. During that time prior to even make my parole board ahead taken advantage while college is still available prisons. Ended up. Coming in there as pretty much unskilled high-school graduate right came to prison in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, five, by by nineteen by two, thousand, three, hundred, quite a masters degree from new. York theological seminary had been published by pen, America in work of. Doing time twenty five years of pen prison writing awards. Won, several other awards, since then as well as in for my homes. In other words, I most recently got Kobe's last year for article called the obscure legacy of mass incarceration. Really Been. Trying to be a part of this work utilize my own personal experience would also learning from it to as well and trying to help cushion needle to create more justice and equity in the systems that tend to not really hear the voices of the people every actually in my opinion help to cook catchweight. The concern is public safety. Try to move away from criminality that the direct. Discrimination indirect not with a hearing. People with a concerns doesn't really dizzy. Indirect discrimination up. The discrimination is very that right what? knock hearing. People in an institutional discrimination actually perpetuates in my opinion criminality and causes people to or can. Cause people to act or the ways then. We would want inside. I, actually had a question stemming from the piece that you just alluded to in your piece. You show beautifully how much you grew unchanged while incarcerated and yet you're continuously denied parole based on your conviction and your experience unfortunately isn't an uncommon one. I was particularly struck by the sentence near State Board of Paroles Disproportionate denial rates of parole against people convicted of violent offenses has less to do with public safety more to do with the federal financial incentives offered to states to hold people convicted violent. In prison longer. Could you talk about how this? Favoring of people with nonviolent charges is playing out during the pandemic than what we should be paying attention to in terms of the motivations for who is released and under what conditions. Sure will. A blue background in that statement that I've made in Mooney tube was in nineteen ninety-five without for couldn't sign the Crime Bill Ninety four ninety five get past. There was also the suggestions to keep. People were bombing scummy offenses in long the violent offender initiative truth in sentencing act. And stage will actually get paid to keep people in committed violence in prison longer to think about it is. It wasn't a ritual active bill. was intended for at that point there. Right the way it's written from that point there, we would have a treatment sensing a lot of determining sentences. But would states were doing as I shown in a paper? Especially, states like New York they were actually ordered to justify the need of receiving federal fundings because part of the bill that President Clinton had signed there was a five year evaluation of states in how they would pretty much adhering to the new incentives, and they get funding. They can raise their funds from the Fed. During his five years, and they didn't have suspended overton five years. I this was always going to be the folks and so New York state ended up funding or say padding their numbers by the nine people retroactively, who was not a part of that ball, so there was specific target against individuals who committed rounded shovel senses. The irony of it is in this is not an excuse trying to justify or minimize the significance the impact of violent offenses. However when we look at individuals or offenses that have a propensity to return back to prison for the same offence, people committed murder have the lowest recidivism life wise people in general who have committed some kind of had lowest recidivism so there was close attention to that in anything yet at the same. Get my thoughts together on this. At the same time we have a national recidivism rate over sixty six percent. Sixty six to seventy percent depending what we rapper Nash six percents, so if people committed murder has mostly citizen gate, who's a reciprocating most? And it's the individuals committed nine ballot fences. So here it is, there was an intention albertine to keep people in prison longer, but the people that were leading out with the people would actually perpetuating more offensive in st now. To across the board. This is not to say. Violent vendors are better non bond. I think it was a cost order failure because for example. Rabbit classrooms thirty people. In School Teaching Day, if one or two students failed. They've gotta get left back well. They didn't get it. It happens right. In Five people veil. That's that's notable. What have sixty six percent of thirty people in the class fail the question now. What does the teacher? Was the curriculum doing. What is the institution doing wrong. So they begin to these individuals who have a higher propensity to return back at. reconvicted like they never really did the work with them to begin with while the individuals who are in their longer. They tension. Some people will call it age out of crime. Be a lot more remorse food about what they've done. With got an inch frizette and taking release. Jog Initiatives to change that. And a thing like I said the recidivism rates lowers I think it's about seven percent and when you talk about for example, someone who's been involved in a life was taken. People who have been convicted of murder have MS likelihood to re commit murder again like. If they do offended babies like with drug use and would not be murder again. I mean the likelihood of that is so minimal and yet stage was able to keep people in longer. Had their. Books get funding for it. While letting other individuals go who they not out of be prepared. So the individual benefited from the early release would individuals didn't have tools for success to begin. How is that related today accident question? What's happening now is individual imprisonment. The longest are individuals who most vulnerable more likely had committed some form of Bob. And will not have that opportunity. They fit in the category because they were in the longest at age ranges, is Aubrey Higher and considering the most vulnerable. Individuals have been in longer. They safe after person gets to be about. Their the sixty years old is is as if the aging tends to accelerate. So a fifty Firoz physical hells could be equivalent to assess euro. To the individual, really most in need of attention or consideration for release are being overlooked based on their crime and as if. The virus hasn't applied to them. As if you know only because the president has a non-defense that they are better suited to be releasing, the virus would not have the same kind of impact that you're the only one Russian say that that. They're the only ones worth saving. Does, essentially what they're saying that only people would not. It's still I get the concerns. And this is not to minimize once again. Especially people and family members. They feel they've been a victim. Of around since, but we still have to grapple with this issue. Something that's been sticking out to me. Is like talking about the release of people cooked and convicted on nonviolent offenses and are vulnerable, is like the overlooking of people who have been convicted on violent offenses or vulnerable, but it's like this kind of. Language suggests that there can't be vulnerable, which is really geeky womanizing? So I wanted to switch over to some of the work. That exodus is doing right now. As part of a temporary solution to address the heightened vulnerability of people who are being released from rikers, island exodus has been working with the mayor's office to provide hotels is a form of housing, which is a gigantic task while you're not directly involved in providing support to people coming home to life in a repurpose hotel I was hoping you could share some of the insights of the exodus staff doing this work. So of course is pandemic came out literally wear out of Thin Air I. It is not something that anyone was really prepared for. And to my understanding, so people from? J., the mayor's office criminal justice was a part of initiating. Wasn't as over, and they released a number of individuals who were soon to be released over being detained and waiting or some type of judge. Sodas a specific category. There was some individuals there who they were there for Technical Karol violation. They weren't able to make their point had a change of address. It didn't copy inform parole officer at the time. So they were sent into the violative will was told to do sixty days ninety days, whatever and their time I got cut down, so these individuals got release, however would not dealing with all the individuals that will release duty circumstances high merrily. What we find is the individuals who were providing housing for our individuals who were diagnosis of Oslo or or have been exposed to cover, so we also managing individuals who are isolation? Some people were exposed still Michelson. Base if they had exposure. They need to be isolated, so we have rooms that were managing them. We also have several looms provided to CEO's confession officers who had been exposed so they could have opportunity be. Fourteen days in this situation. The MAJORI individuals, though that we are serving sides, those two areas that mentioned. Individuals who primarily were always before they even when they have no other place to have more baseball. And, so we started out with approximately I think seventy people may be near hundred, currently serving a little over twenty people in two different hotels. And this is just are merely serving individuals from Manhattan all the different boroughs. IT NEEDS TO BE A. Well another individual with mental health issues at the majority of the individual, always as for mental health insurance, so having access to medications is very critical and yet they were released without having access to a pharmacy. To get different health mid, so part of our role is manage their needs while they're in a hotel because the hotels still operating, and so it is not for hotel managers that manage the knees of the individuals dealing with re entry. We've taken on that specific tasks. We also have relationship. The State Almere city actually hired security firm. That's their if anything else. Hotel feels that someone's there to be in control. Because we re entry, organization is not going to do the thing. We think human I right? We thinking managing I people I not policing verse, and this is not a slight against policemen data job so with that we've also receive a number of donations close primarily, who'd mask cosmetics undergarments for men and women? We also helped to manage the distribution of those rushing them out. especially the cosmetics things so people. They just coming home have no money to make sure that they are still happens basic needs. Met We take individuals to? meds in some individuals had went ed, and they were all in a Methadone program, and so none of the programs currently shutdown because Kobe does not allow inpatient programs at best, and so we've helped to navigate where individuals can't find the kind of treatment uneasily cheating the program. I also had a question regarding. Exoduses Entry Wilderness Program, which is a program, not provide support to formerly incarcerated people during the job application process I was wondering how the services that are part of that program are currently being provided and during up time. That's hard for anyone to get a job. What are the additional barriers to? Justice involved individuals receiving job offers. Yes Oh, okay, so a little background with the reason why the Wilderness so name his exit right, and is drawn from the story exodus of the Biblical story, the idea of making the transition from bondage into freedom, and in following that same narrative. There's this time period in which the people was wandering in the wilderness in order to find land in this case with A. A carve out for themselves. The thinking is that the transition of yesterday is similar to that simply coming home and providing individuals with a job opportunity housing like these things are essential, but a person can actually see in our experience. Of course it can actually be allied with those services and still feel aliens do not thought by they arrived or the mad or be. Transitioned or reintegrated into Sun, they can still isolated, so we kinda like speak to that moment where there's his transition that you're working towards your services again took tain your success in your reintegration. That area reentry is similar to You're still trying to find your way. And when people, this is not just people who prison where people kind of feeling out of place kind of find their way, they're probably most vulnerable to making bad decisions by I like to quit sometimes from the feeling I have going to junior high school to high school I was the big man in the junior. High School is one of the nobody. And then you do, the same thing is college. College should in now society. You gotTa make money. You gotTA. Pay Bills in. You're stepping on your parents house like Hell I. Don't I don't know what I'm doing. Right somebody directly so that and it showed it s why people ally type brain is still developing at twenty five right because it's processing. That was sidelined space, but the Ryoji process is like that you know, so. We called the Wilderness and provide resources. They placed a strain because coated because social distancing. We don't want to expose anybody. We might as known disappeared or carriers are the. So is this big scare? It affects people differently and is no telly. In is no guarantee how the next person's going to be affective, so there was a big scare infected a classroom size. Some, individuals with coming to group on average out, say ten to fifteen people every week some weeks. It might die down. Say Seven. On average, but ten to fifteen, and we had to actually space those out order to adhere to social distancing. Even though now we have a very large room that can help support that we've also had moments where some facilitators held part of the practices or Sunday trading retrain individuals do it resumes on example like some of the. Things that can be done paperwork. Wise is doing online now we will give us face because if some individuals may not even know how to J. Technology, so we will give a space for them also have computers. They could work on it together via social distancing. Another thing that I learned because we also have a wellness project, a wellness project is our chemical dependency treatment program is an outpatient so in order to once again adhere to social distancing. Some of the thoughts were mating can have a half the group in class and half outclass remotely and. The participants they really appreciate going. They've really wanted to be able to be present inside. Especially when social distancing is pretty much targeted to another is elation in everybody's house and Suckley. Don't have regular house unit there in arena, shelter or halfway house. They kicked out by at least a third of the day two thirds the day. They have to be outed Only come there to sleep so coming to exodus in many respects refuge for many individuals, because we also provide of breakfast humble graph in the morning, people come. Also by a humble lunch. Enough to make people have some Tristesse. They ought to worry about where on. So we've created a shelter you coaches was not just your here. Taking a program which are here and you're of a community. It's a struggle currently to my understanding where the only. Organization Open Pan. Of not spite are my trying to say were better than anybody. Because some people have taken other auctions, doing things remotely so does not trying to any other organizations. We all work together. Own Way got a very good networking with the appreciate their work, but our doors have been opened. I was just thinking about what you were saying with like writing resumes doing cover letters, and how that's something that you do usually on the computer because there's a lot of coverage in New York state about how Pearl check. Ends have been moved online over the phone for the time. Being and we know that prisons are often technology desert's and after serving. Serving long sentences, those returning home can find it difficult in adapting to the pace i. wish acknowledges she on the outside has moved. Is this technology gab creating additional vulnerabilities for people who might be struggling with online role check-ins like for example? Are you seeing technical violations like missing an appointment because of issues with technology, leading to rearrest or other punitive responses? I myself haven't now think. Anything, that we've occurred so far, no, even with parole. This whole thing with Kobe branding so different parole officer, different strategies and people have different type of parole commitments. Not Everybody has the same exact whoa commitment. When I come home, some people might be seen every thirty days. Something might be two weeks depending upon your fans, your sense of accountability, all these things play a part. At the same time for everybody is idea of dealing with pandemic has become scary. So parole officers. You know there people, too. You know and still I'm sure they kind of figure out. Systems in Wade serve as they say way and keep the public safe right, their own individual safety in terms of the virus meaning exposing bike wise, you know keeping the public safe part of their job. So you know I'm not gonNA. Say that they've been lenient, but it's clear that a number of institutions because pandemic has been willing to make adjustments in how they do the work as they try to find a way to navigate to this. Asser wanted to talk about that. Euro Executive Board Member of the Parole Preparation Project I was hoping you could share a bit of context about that project. In how covid nineteen poses particular challenges, like has the lack of volunteer face to face. Support affected Pearl Opportunities At this moment. So the Parole Prep Project started out twenty thirteen, and the concept was to help provide Karol preparation support for individuals who has served long-term term sentences individuals who have been disconnected from society, but most was really in need of having some type of social support or connection to support their knowledge court they released. Is what the transition? To get acclimated graduate to society, and so, what's appropriate project does is pretty much put together. What is not a parole portfolio pro packet? The pro packet contains a compile relation of letters of support outline of a person's accomplishments, whatever certificates they may have gathered while they will cost related at these documents. The individual has every right to submit which corrections counselor so that their file to show this consistency. From my experiences, though a lot of times won't be shared with the crushes, officer is put all in one folder, and is not necessarily delineated as the different subjects that might be required in other words. You can have a letter. Support a one page. That support right next to certificate right next to is a hostage, so the portfolio. The purposes portfolio is to make an interview friendly, so they WANNA know place to save. They know exactly where to go is. Your job proposals Israel all data as explained. So San. Antonio! And then the beauty about the project is it operates with their volunteers. The volunteers who go to facilities and they actually visit guys who the clients would be men and women in helping them to prepare at least a sit down and starts. Get to know the person, so it's not just a quantitative presentation of here's your parole packet done. They actually gifted, not person oval course. We like to make it about the cost of a two year process because the very same. Same Volunteer. They too are going to do a issue veterinary letter in two folio, and they can speak to course they met so that's the premise in my understanding. Right now we have over four hundred volunteers, and usually volunteers will go in groups of two to three cents to meet one kind, and of course social distancing institutions being shut down. That has been lemonade so lot of this any. been happening is happening over the phone or via letter, and we're just trying to make the adjustments, but it's nothing replacing face to face conversations. But the work is still happen. That we do. We've been very fortunate to be able to get donations to help. Many innovation prison, struggling finances to get cosmetic sometimes to get other nutritious options for commerce city besides what they're serving the mess hall. And, so we're getting donations will be able to send to our clients sometimes full packages of thirty five pounds a month. We would also send them some money at. Anywhere between twenty five to fifty hours, depending upon the situation to help individuals, you know easier by someone's. There cares you're supported. You belong so many of these things are so critical is the unwritten. But yet concrete aspects of making the transition as necessary that sense of belonging, says it fully committed, and that you have support the seven network, the just general socialization retentive minimize the value of this and we just want to quantify everything all you've got this program done got this that. Sometimes just those programs result is not sufficient. Cleaning the lens out from your perspective. What do you think the most important aspects of the pandemic are as it relates to re entry? Plow, s a huge question because I'm hearing that some men are visiting. There's some facilities. Really consistent, awesome of facilities have operating. They've been operating under the owner. Soy and some facilities are provided with Mass Somare. Some people are getting mass just when they go home. Some people in some facilities. If one person in the dorm is exposed, the whole dorm is locked in together now and so it's really difficult, because we don't know we can easily say was just let everybody out love for that. Right. But what would that look like? Do we have a place for them to go other questions that go along with that, but in terms of dealing specifically the entry, the idea of giving individuals may be say quarantine we tweets before their release white, offering them not so much isolation were there like in special housing unit away from everybody, but a place where they can begin to process that transition before they left, provide them with support upon their lease. Establishing cups for individuals is some people being released or we've upstate New, York and you just totally get on the bus and for eight. Outright, that's it. Typically individuals is supposed to get forty dollars or bus ticket. If they save anything that's great. They have gatemen. So the minimum forty dollars in anything else is something that you say to Tucker. Nation was made in Nineteen, seventy seven. So out of nineteen seventy seven wikileak's badge. Good heat well, right? That forty dollars. Maybe worth now is today, and this is what they're being offered their bus ticket. To a world stealing social distancing. Dealing with his pandemic, like where's The coaching become? One of the things that really I didn't realize with myself, but we first started with social distancing as apple peels, appeared at a black man in this country. I had difficulty pulling mask on. Because for me putting basketball invitation for police say what you do right to be viewed as a suspect. And this in cases of balancing, that's not nothing on TV, having a mask on in store and security following him wherever he went young Batman. Else newstalk. Only trying to hear yourself, you distances. So I was triggered. All those feelings what it was like to have to walk down, you know in a prison yard of the prison guards. You could against the wall. Just because I had this mask. And, something had vigils when bringing compensation that way. A lot of that would be like. Should. I felt that way jotted. Know that feeling was, but you'll right. They had to get over it, but they acknowledge that that elitist did exist. What is someone just came home. I've been home now. Be Busted in home years I got a sense of what it is to walk through the streets and shows accountability and show where my intentions are. Do my work. What are the prestigious Komo? Ready feels like no one knows it. No one knows he had mass. So coach desk be critical breaking point for anybody. But I am saying that is worth of investigated just checking in with people about these things about social distancing. Those kinds of things that has impacted reedited. No one's really had the time you at best. Best. One even headed tied to synthesizers nuances. Yeah I'm just thinking about what you're saying. You know wearing a mask and doing something that's like within everyone's collective safety, but then still like having people be suspicious of you. It's awful. This originally broke and it gets perpetuated communities as well is not something just starting in prison right? I've been experiencing this as a youth and so putting on a Basque inside just brings a lot of all that up. As one of the the Robin questions for our interview, I was wondering for those who have some time or money to support reentry services or are interested in getting involved in advocacy. What are some recommendations you have? Is just as valuable as is money idea? Building community working towards daily community right now is probably wondered critical investment that can made. Noble, also not know dealing with the Kobe via spoke about this over also amid a number of rice, taking place in the country, and and clearly is not something that money convicts right. There's a significant aspect of equitable like financial equity that needs to be addressed. There's no doubt about that, but this idea of community building. Forming alliances, you know one of the things I've always said. When I was in prison I realized that when I to the badge. My college education realize that more than degrades itself is something that was happening within. The class is a socialization was happening in classroom, a sense of accountability and I had the opportunity to carve out for myself by being on time with my papers by assery questions, right assignments like I, had ownership, and I carved out your relationship with my teacher, and then it translated relatable peers. We also begin to know how to process Catholic. Would I always have to say you know, get away from my talking to you right or get into a fight? We begin to process conflict with the shared intention that we're trying to get better. I think that's socialization is just as critical as education especially for those president the grades. Degree itself. Session we're talking about why supported individuals successful reentry into reintegration and security inside society so I think the same thing applies here you know now in this time of arrest people become won't mainly because of social distancing for so long and same thing that has transpired is like enough enough to. There's so much. And we know it's all stemming from the recent murders from George Floyd and other cities named Brianna from Kentucky I, forget a lasting now Taylor. Detailed, so we know the recent ORC as come from, but it's been the same treatment. Sometimes, it's really blatant. Most haunted very benign, very subtle, that creates more hostility agreement nine hostility I think now it's just become crystallize because of covid and people vote and one of the things that really could help is just tasted title initiative building community. Get into no across races. Each other or classes get to know how to have conflict with some. Would I happen to hate them right? These things I'm not promoted. I'll let mony net. In my family, we argue. We argue, but I'm not gonNA let nobody arguing street. Nobody's GonNa be a beautiful sister, because I'm mad at her type thing right so doing community investing time you know our doors at exit transitional community when East Harlem Third Avenue Between Hundred, twenty, eight hundred and Fourth Street. You're more willing to come in if you have specific tools, skills wall job issuing if you want to financing class a literacy class. Always! Try to find ways to get the community involved. You can always get contact with me the first episode www dot, e., t., C., N., Y. Dot, or check us out. That age speaks about doing hotels. Or to contact me on my email, a Rodriguez and each. Each E. C. N. Y.. Dot Org but interview are not in the area. A exodus might be in other parts of the outer boroughs will win connected with a lot of other networks movement. And if people want to get involved in bill community and they want to wear living at at nats. We promote. Do it where you're living at that. We can connect you. I'll be more than glad to a to. Method that would be my job. To Connecticut so if people want to get involved, reach out when his great. Right Great, we take funds. All that donations will give your time to just as. Yeah I completely agree before we wrap up. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Other our religious appreciate his time. Not One of the. Thank you America for together. End User Director always supported. What is she doing? been there always accorded Panamericana people side, and it's really about helping America's very good utilizing literary stretch to build a gap, and I like to say even to right through the walls by use actually say. Like my pen was a sledgehammer to kind of break my way out the walls, but literally that literacy and literary works. Is always made themselves available and I would love to continue to work with them and finding ways in which we can reach inside and connect with the people realizing the tools of today's. Technology engagement whatever would love to have that kind of calm safe to? Use the tools today to create a new form of engaging. Thank you so much for talking to me today, and for all your insights in your time. It was a great end of the really fishy. It ain't going. To me that law. You can relate whose article the obscure legacy of Mass Incarceration Parole Board abuses of people serving pro eligible licenses on the cuny. Law Reviews website or on exodus. Transitional Communities website under latest news stories. Want XS. Be sure to check out their ways to help page which includes sponsorships, partnerships, volunteer opportunities item donations. Similarly the parole preparation project is accepting volunteer applications for their October twenty twenty training for those in the New York metropolitan area. More volunteer. Opportunities can be found in this issue. Advocacy action in resources roundup. Episode researched hosted, produced and mixed by myself, nicolette tally. I received generous edits to my questions from Penn America's prison injustice writing program director cates Meisner an audio editing guidance from Penn America's prison justice. Writing Program Manager Robert pollock Prison Justice Training Program. broke. Van wrote the introduction for this episode. Thank you for listening.
Ep 03: What Caused the Crisis?
"Everyone I'd like to take a minute to first say thank you for listening to our podcast. We really hope it will bring more light and understanding to this important topic. We'd be so grateful if you could just take one minute to rate or view our podcast on apple podcasts or wherever you're listening. Ratings and reviews bumped the podcast up in search results helping people find our show. The, first step to ending abuse in the church is to not be silent about it. So please consider sharing this podcast with your friends, family co workers or prisoners again thank you so much for listening. This episode contains the description of sexual abuse as well as a mention of suicide listener discretion is advised. In the nineteen eighties j lemberger was an altar boy at All Saints Catholic Church in Dallas Texas. He and other boys would attend alter classes with father rudy costs. In sometimes, they would spend the night bird. Jay's parents new father cost as their son's best friend. He taught him things like how to use a computer and he talked to him about being a priest. and. He seemed to always be there for J.. J. Was hospitalized for depression when he was fourteen. After admitting he had thought about suicide. Father, costs came to visit him. His parents, Nancy and PAT. Bottoms new tennis shoes to wear at the hospital. He tore them to shreds. I couldn't understand why Nancy told a reporter from. Texas monthly. J. Lemberger died by suicide aged twenty one jay's parents asked father cost to preside at the funeral. Six months after Jay's death Nancy finally discovered the likely cause of her sons desperation. And, the reason he hated tennis shoes. Four victims, survivors and their families. Came forward with accusations against their costs they said that when they visited the rectory, they were asked to remove their tennis shoes. Later other cost would use their feet for sexual gratification. He had a foot fetish. In the court proceedings, we learned that father costs abused at least eleven boys. Four of the victims estimated that over five years, they were abused total one, thousand, three, hundred, fifty times. What we don't know is what happened to j in the rectory with other costs. Or how many times it happened. There is so much of the sexual abuse crisis that we simply don't know. And if we're honest, we'd rather not know. Maybe. That's part of the problem. The details shared by victim survivors of what went on in rectory sacristy and confessionals horrify us. and. We close our eyes hoping it all get fixed and go away. But it doesn't. In nineteen ninety-seven a jury required the Diocese of Dallas to pay eleven victims of rudy costs, millions of dollars. The jury concluded that the diocese new the abuse was taking place. Did nothing to stop it and actively covered up A year later Costas found guilty in a criminal trial and sentenced to life in prison. He's still there. You're listening to crisis a podcast of the Catholic project and Carlos Moya. And our last episode, we told a brief history of clergy abuse in the United States. In this episode, we'll explore some of the more prominent theories about what caused the crisis. Pull examine the external context, the internal structures and the theology of the Church that seemed to create a climate that allowed precise other rudy costs to abuse multiple victims for years. With seemingly little interest on the part of the church to prevent. Or Stop It. Um. In two thousand and two, the spotlight investigative team at the Boston Globe uncovered a pattern of clergy sex abuse and cover up in the archdiocese of Boston sparking nationwide crisis in the Catholic Church. What followed was intense widespread scrutiny of the Church's handling of abuse cases in questions were asked at the bishop's simply couldn't answer. People wanted to know how many priests were abusers and what was it about the Catholic. Church, that allowed this type of abuse to occur to answer those questions and more the US bishops abroad in a team of experts. They approached John J. College researchers in criminology and psychology to undertake an overall study of the nature and scope of the problem of sexual abuse in a fifty year period from nineteen, fifty, two thousand. Margaret Smith a quantitative criminologist at the Institute for Criminal Justice Ethics at John Jay. College she's been working on John J. Studies into clergy sex abuse since they began in two thousand two. So this was a landmark study, the first institution and to date the only institution to open its records fully for examination this study began in two thousand and two and the study was published in two thousand four. John, J followed up the one hundred and fifty five page report. The second study published in two thousand eleven. This one covered the causes and contacts and the Church again gave the researchers precedent access to its archives and we spent. Five years gathering information. On many of the dimensions that we had not had time to study before. So we gathered information from. Priests who had been abusers we gathered information from bishops and those in supervisory positions. And we studied the archival data. That was available. To us. About studies that had been done at the peak of the abuse in the Nineteen Seventies. The first time I spoke with Smith. She took me back in time. She told me that any study of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church must be retrospective in nature. Granted cases of sexual abuse continue to occur. They continue to be reported and transparency and accountability continued to be issues. All that said, the number of cases taking place today are nowhere near where they were in the nineteen sixties and Seventies. The John Jay reports clearly document the downward trend since two thousand four according to reports required under the Dallas. Charter there have been nearly ten thousand total abuse allegations against clergy, but ninety six percent of those took place before two thousand and ninety percent were from before nineteen ninety. I asked Smith what would account for this? The pattern of abuse in the church is a temporal pattern. And it reflects the same pattern that we see in crime in divorce in sexual behavior and drug a drug use a drug experimentation between. Nineteen sixty and nineteen eighty. The number of cases increases each year until the late seventies and then begins to decline fairly precipitously. After the Second World, War America was booming the expanding economy. made it possible for young people to get married and achieved the American Dream Home? Ownership. They started families and huge numbers and sent their children to the expanding network of Catholic schools. So. The church was expanding the Catholic. Church. was growing. And opportunities for the priesthood were more available. And it looked like a very good path. For. A. post-war Young. Man. In the nineteen fifties not late nineteen forties and nineteen fifties. The nineteen sixties and seventies tumultuous decades in the United States. Civil Rights movement the war in Vietnam and all the tensions these brought. In addition to the assassination of President John F Kennedy and Martin Luther King Junior. The advent of the birth control pill woodstock, the Manson murders. and. Things tumultuous in the Church to. Just days before the Cuban missile crisis bishops from around the world gathered for the Second Vatican Council. They approved dramatic changes to the liturgy and proposed new relationship for the church with the modern world. Things that had previously seem settled fixed suddenly seemed up debate. Through the sixties and seventies, there was increasing discussion about freedom from historic norms freedom from traditional things that had not been approved and experimentation with drugs and with sexuality. Tremendous percentage of priests left the priesthood. But when you look at the reasons why they left the priesthood. They to marry. Or they left to. Develop. Intimate relationships with others so that one cannot expect that those who stayed are different from those who left. They had the same stresses. Same desires. We were allowed to look at archival data of a survey that was done of priests in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seven, early, nineteen seventies right at the period that we were discussing. Church didn't like the results which was that their priests were lonely and thinking about sex. And then by the nineteen eighties known incidents of abuse in the church began to decline Koso- number of things happened first of all within the Hull Society, there was a contraction or reaction to the excesses of the seventies also in the nineteen eighties, survivors of sexual abuse began to organize. It was preliminary and there were not that many victims known at that time. But. It did lead the church to begin to recognize and. Ask Diocese individual diocese to work on this problem. So according to the John Jay Studies Abuse Rates in the church seemed to correspond with historical changes. But why did abuse happened in the Catholic? Church It's a common question. What is it about Catholics? What is it about the Catholics well? My answer is always that the abuse of human beings is a human problem. And that adolescence are. Are Attractive to adults we know that. Look at our advertising in the United States. And they're also vulnerable because they're unsure of themselves and they welcome attention from. Adults who engage with them, and so it's very difficult for both adults who work with juveniles adolescence and for adolescence to keep their relationship help. It's very easy. For Unwanted intimacy to develop. We, recognize now. That organizations that we can describe as youth serving organizations very. Often have problems with sexual abuse by adults who are mentors and guides. And this has happened in sports federations from soccer to hockey to gymnastics to ice skating, and it is very difficult to control. We don't necessarily think of the Catholic Church as a youth serving organization like the boy scouts but children are everywhere in the church from the altar boys at mass to the students in. Catholic schools religious education programs to participants in youth ministry programs and camps. The Boy Scouts, Public School districts and other religious institutions have also recently faced historical cases of child sex-abuse but the abuse in the Catholic Church stands out a two thousand eighteen pew report found that nine and ten US adults have heard at least a little about reports of sexual abuse misconduct by Catholic clergy. And the I thought that crosses a lot of people's minds is that the cause has to be celibacy I just don't think the church will be able to change as long as they maintain the celibacy law, which could be changed with the stroke of a Papal Pan This is Jason Berry a Catholic journalist who has written extensively on sex abuse in the church. I just don't see how maintaining this course of idealising celibacy is the one true way. To best serve the church. Really. Make sense anymore. Priestly Celibacy as a long-standing tradition in the Catholic Church. However, the discipline of Celibacy is not necessarily mandatory today. The church allows married men to be ordained in certain circumstances like married Anglican ministers who convert to. Catholicism. But the question is, would a wholesale revision of priestly celibacy fix the problem of child sex abuse? I mean what we've watched over the last forty years. is a culture of celibacy riddled with secrecy and lying. And I I. Don't Know How you change that unless you change the cornerstone. Of clerical governing, which is that everybody has to be Salomon. Berry argues that celibacy prevents a lot more good men from becoming priests. It restricts the number of men who are willing to consider the priesthood, and of course, it does not allow women to have any priestly role at all and I think the church could be rejuvenated the seminaries began to welcome. young Catholics well educated who were not facing the selasih requirement. He also argues that the celibacy requirement has led to a dysfunctional priesthood. My view is that if you change the governing dynamics of the church so that people who enter seminaries are not required. To lead married lives, an F. House of family dynamics would slowly supplant the idea that chastity on the purest level is the only and best way for people to serve the church in a ministerial functions. Smith in contrast thinks that the celibacy of priests is simply an easy thing for outsiders to point to I. think that the questions about celibacy resound to me because celibacy is an unusual situation at least that's how it's perceived even though. Studies of Sexuality find that approximately a third of the American population does not have sexual relations. So Salvi is not something that only priests are experiencing. The vow to sell bassy and the meaning of Celibacy is unusual too many people outside the church. And so it's an easy thing to point to when you're talking about this problem she points out that if celibacy is the issue, then abuse, when be such a big problem and other parts of society, the problem is not unique to the church. The scout leaders weren't Selman. But doctors and the Hollywood folks and the military folks who abuse others are not Sullivan. That's a sexual frustration. So you you approve doesn't have sex air go you're you're frustrated airforce. Watan grab a minor what you did something wrong with that. Monsignor. Stephen. Rosetti is a licensed psychologist and a professor at the Catholic University of America I have worked with many offenders and with those been victimized sadly an about child abuse have worked with priests and religious allot lay people as well. I was a consultant to the bone difficult commissioner job protection I was part of the group that drafted the Dallas Charter as well. Monsignor Rosetti doesn't think that the sexual frustration theory holds. If you're sexually frustrated, there are lots of adults were very willing to have sex with you. And so the question is, why did you choose a minor see? That's that's the key and that's getting back to a very dysfunctional psychological makeup. In place before they went to the seminary. which is one of the reasons why we're starting to beef up our screening of seminarians. There is one aspect of this crisis however, where Monsignor Rosetti does see a negative impact of celibacy this I would blame celibacy is a lack of understanding of how people feel about it when their children are abused, they don't really get the outrage and the bishops of never communicated the fact that they are outraged and they should be hours because people are outraged. They don't realize that because you don't have their own children. For decades, bishops prioritized support and healing for their priests even when they were accused of grave crimes. Bishops Priests for treatment quietly concealed the reasons that priests were absent. And offered them a fresh start when they returned. All the while ignoring the suffering of the victims. And their silence allowed more abuse to take place. In the case of Rudy cost his bishops, sent him for treatment in the Early Nineteen Ninety S. The parish was told that he was seeking help. But didn't mention any accusations of sexual abuse of minors. While at the Treatment Center, the servants of the parakeet father kept in contact with at least one of his victims. On a trip back to the diocese to celebrate. Christmas. He abused that victim again. Look few if any priests or bishops. Have Walked the rug at night. Holding that baby with Colic, padding that little one. On the back. As I did with my girls when they were very young as any number of Catholic, parents have done again Jason Berry when you have no experience in the effective bonding. Of, what it takes to build up the young You can certainly stand as a figure of support and idealism as many bishops and priests to. But without that direct experience. One. Really. Does stand apart. Maybe. There's something to this one of the bitter irony of clergy abuse as that the men who are called father sometimes showed nothing a father's protective care. Paternity I think is a is another explanatory route that can take on a lot of different dimensions to. Tad Peck Nov a professor of systematic theology at Catholic. University. He sees this failure of fatherhood as being at the heart of the abuse crisis. This is the idea that there's been a larger crisis of fatherhood in. Western. Culture generally this is very well documented in the sociology. We President Obama actually took this concern very seriously and had a fatherhood initiative because it's very clear that that we do have a fatherhood crisis and we actually have seen over the last fifty years this become visible in the sacramental or of fathers to. Catholics call priests father. For reason, the priests posted do for the faithful what a biological or adoptive father does for his children protect, provide, educate, serve, and love. Of course, that's not always how fathers at. The Sacramento Fathers can fail and that just like natural father's can they can fail to be raised up to the image of the father and the image of the father in them can get distorted and they can begin to see themselves on the wrong way as priests and they can then. Look at other images of God and the Roy. Archbishop Gregory, the Archbishop of Washington. told me that fatherhood came up in discussions among the bishops and two, thousand and two? I can remember one conversation. That I attended, which included the American cardinals and. The cardinals of good number of that. I cast trees. and. The the the mantra that was being. Raised was the bishop is the father of his priest The bishop is the father of his priests and that is true. But one American bishop who I will name one of the cardinals the American cardinals Cardinal Frank Stafford said yes. The bishop is the father of his priests, but he is also the father of his people. He's the father of those children who have been hard. And what those men said. The older ones. With something along the lines of. They were like my sons. I loved my priests. Margaret Smith She's referring to conversations she had with bishops while conducting research. They could not and did not. Begin to understand the impact on you I. I don't feel like. We fully understood that and it is certainly one of the most unresolved problems. Not that it will necessarily be resolved, but it needs to hang in the air. About why? To us. Hi Everyone. Before we continue at the podcast I wanted, let you know about new documentary podcast brought to by Neon media called smokescreen fake priest. Smokescreen fake priests isn't investigative show about Ryan. Scott also known as Randall stocks also known as Ryan, gaveling Jer and also known by seven other names. He was a popular priest who spent the last thirty years traveling the midwest swindling millions of dollars out of people he used the money to enrich himself and would declare bankruptcy whenever he was outed for falsifying his identity only once law enforcement officials charged him with crimes related to his church, but he managed to essentially win the case he's now free and working on his next con. The podcast is hosted by Alex Schulman. From, the Midwest who has been chasing father, Ryan story for years and Alexey van manages to get an exclusive sit down interview with Ryan himself. Subscribe to smokescreen fake priests today on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. When it comes to trying to understand the causes of the abuse crisis, there is one issue that stirs more controversy than any other homosexual priests. In the general population, the vast majority of child sexual abuse is committed by males and females are three times more likely to be victims of child. Sexual Abuse. But the John Jay report showed that in the Catholic. Church between the years nineteen, fifty and two thousand, the ratio for victims was reversed more than eighty percent were male at the peak of the crisis during the nineteen seventies that percentage closer to ninety. In addition, the John Jay report found that seventy eight percent of victims were between the ages of eleven and seventeen. That means that the vast majority of these cases didn't meet the clinical definition of pedophilia. So it's worth making the point that pedophilia is a term that applies to. Exclusive sexual interest in children who are in general thought to be prepubescent. That is under ten or eleven. And there. The gender doesn't matter. Like so it's an gender-neutral diagnosis that's an actual psychological disorder. Is that correct? That's correct. Get. It requires that there be repeated persistent attraction to prepubescent children and it requires that at least more than one event of abuse and no. Sexual abuse or intimate contact with any other group. If most of the abuse wasn't related to pedophilia and most abuse involved adult men preying on adolescent boys then doesn't that suggest a clear link between homosexuality in Clergy Abuse Smith clarified things. This is just basically terminological question. So the the abuse the activity was almost sexual. But anybody who thinks that? Homosexual act several homosexual acts make someone a homosexual identity is crazy. There's just too much evidence that. have sex between have sex with both genders. So. That's why I say that seventy eight percent of the priests who had been treated for more than one abuse of a child. Had An adult relations as well. In violation, of church files. Heterosexual adult relations. So. Is that person. To Fares with married women and to relationships with teenagers boys that person homosexual. That person's not does not have a homosexual identity that has some almost sexual behavior. Here's why the question of homosexual priests is such a thorny problem. Male on male abuse may be committed by men who wouldn't identify as homosexual. In the suggests that a man who identifies homosexual is no more likely to abuse children than a man who does not. So, why does the theory persist? One reason can be found in high profile cases of homosexual abuse like that of Theodore mckarrick McCarrick preyed on young men and boys including a number of adults. Americans. Another reason is that there is a lot of data anecdotal and otherwise showing influx of homosexual men into the priesthood during the same decades in which abuse was most rampant among Catholic clergy. Estimates of the number of Catholic priests identify homosexual vary widely. But there is a widespread agreement that the proportion of homosexual men in the Catholic priesthood is much higher than in the male population at large. And then there are those who seek to normalize homosexuality among clergy to advance their cause, they make a clear connection between the abuse crisis in homosexual priests. The New York Times ran a piece entitled. It is not a closet it is a cage gay Catholic priest speak-out. The author wrote that there are many homosexual priests that this has in some way contributed the current crisis and that the solution is to allow homosexual priests live their lives quote freely openly and honestly. But Margaret Smith are used that the homosexual nature of the abuse has more to do with access than sexual orientation. So who was serving in church? Who was the priest around? There weren't s- alter girls in nineteen seventy Smith calls this opportunity risk in the nineteen sixties and Seventies. Parents didn't even think about clergy sex abuse. So they allowed priests much more access to their children than parents would today. So the priests were working with these young boys they made friends, they mentor them. This is the classic pattern of coaches and athletes. Young person begins to feel special is learning from the adult is maybe getting treated to special other favors like trips and. And Training and perhaps money gifts and other forms of generosity that grow out of. What I would call normal relationship and then. The relationship. Develops into abuse. On the subject of homosexuality and its role in the Abuse Crisis Smith has this caution within the Catholic Church. There is a very strong desire to have this problem of abuse answered more simply. Then to account for the ability of human beings to abuse one another, and that is two point to homosexuality. Homosexuality is here but homosexuality does not account for the sexual abuse of children. In two thousand, eighteen letter to the people of God Pope Francis wrote to say, no to abuse is to say an emphatic no to all forms of clerical, ISM. The, Pope's words sparked a debate among Catholics about the meaning of clerical ISM. I spoke with Dr Susan Timmy Associate Professor of pastoral practice at Catholic University about this. Clerical ISM is when priests themselves feel like they're somehow different and more privileged than the other people, of God and so act in a bit of an old boys club is another way that we sometimes talk about those things in you know law firms or in. Other churches are golf clubs. and and and when they they separate themselves. And give themselves in a sense, their own rules to play with their own expectations. So those things would all be manifestations of this this misappropriation of of what it means to be a priest and the way in which are called to carry out your ministry Dr Timothy Views Clerical Ism as a two way street on one side. You have the top down Clark lsm coming from bishops or priests on the other side you have the clerical ism of the Laity. And I, think we do have to say that clerical ISM is something that that sometimes people participate in in in sometimes giving father all of those privileges would just aren't necessarily certainly to his ministry and not necessarily good for the life of community as a whole. Sometimes. Prisoners can see Father as the only with answers about religious questions, for example, or they give their pastor expensive gifts or undue deference or consider father costs. Parents at the time trusted priests enough that they allowed their children to spend the night in the rectory. They hoped father costs would be a good influence, a mentor or spiritual counselor. We do give an awful lot of power and authority to the priest because of who he is in in the community do and and I think most priests today would say. I want to earn your trust and I want to earn your your love because first and foremost uncalled to be servant. If the priest is a good man. He earns the trust of his people by serving them, but it is precisely the trust that is given to a priest just because he is a priest that makes people vulnerable Aprista someone you think you can trust and is someone who you would think you would never not be able to trust. So you in that sense, you can't even say it's misplaced trusts to the degree that that someone who presents themselves as trustworthy. I think because of the image we have as the priests are spiritual father even I think we we expect a certain intimacy, right that intimacy that family can bring it's it's absolutely the the fault. Of the priest him south when he abuses what it means to be, ministry. Increasing acting as an alter crystals. Alter Chris Means other Christ Catholics believed that when a priest his celebrating a sacrament Christ is working through him such that he is standing in the place of Jesus. He is another Christ. When you believe that your priest is another Christ, it's easy to trust that person and put on a pedestal. And for the priest, it can be tempting to abuse that position I think another element of clerical ISM is a lack of fraternal correction. Father Paul Scalia is vicar for clergy for the diocese of Arlington in Virginia, and this is one of the things that has been I think conspicuously absent in clerical culture, which is, is the the willingness to correct and be corrected clerical ISM. Doesn't do that. Clerical. ISM. Is You know you're you're kind of stereotypical old boy network where you know we're just looking out for another and the privileges that come with with with our with our state in life. So I live in Falls Church Virginia, which is one of the most one of the wealthiest areas probably in the world. And I live here free of charge. Now, the reason I do is so that I can be of service to the people here. It's not just because I'm a priest get to I get to, you know get free lodging it's. No. I get free lodging so that that concern is removed from me so that I can be so that I can concentrate on ministering to Christ's flock and he wanted mistakes is to think that. That because priests I get these perks? No no, it's certain. Things are are are provided for a priest so that he can be free of those concerns. And therefore give himself more generously unreservedly to people. And I think another thing about clerical ISM is networking that goes on and the Looking out for one another and turn a blind eye to one another's faults or you know crimes or misdeeds, and it's not something that's that's unique to the priesthood I. think a lot of different groups can can have the boy network but of course, once again it is when it shows up in in the priesthood it is it is much worse than it would be anywhere else. The question of what caused the sexual abuse crisis continues to be researched and debated the consensus among those we interviewed seemed to be that it's a convergence of things clerical ism combined with the failure fatherhood and societal up people and lonely priests with poor formation struggling with celibacy in an age of changing attitudes about sex. Yet. There's one lingering question that has yet to be answered with any real satisfaction. Why didn't the bishops immediately report priests abusers to the authorities. And then there's this question. Why would bishops reassigned known abusers to new parishes giving them a fresh start and access to new victims? While the John. Jay Report looked very closely at the abusers. It did not do the same for the bishops who covered for them. This is what Archbishop Wilton Gregory of Washington DC had to say. One of the things that I I have come to To understand. Is the difference between. Being a pastor. And being a policeman. As a pastor. Our first responsibility is Redemption. Mercy. and we can't lose sight of that. But I think. What had happened? In too many cases not all but in too many cases. was there was confusion between a sin and a crime? I I think a number of bishops. Who may have reassigned. saw the abuse of a child as a sin and sends can be forgiven. But crimes have to be adjudicated. And there has to be consequences. I don't have the right. To take a chance with someone's child that I could not in conscience. Restore A PERSON TO MINISTRY? Whom I knew. Who acknowledged or who had you know had at? At that I had found. Credible proof had had actually done something I. Don't have a right to say oh. Okay. You've acknowledged this. It happened. I'm GONNA take a chance with you again. I'm not taking a chance with the priest. I'm taking a chance with the kids in the parish. where he could be assigned. His words give me hope mostly because I know a lot of his brother bishops think the same way there has been a lot of progress since two thousand two and how the church handle sex abuse cases there really has. Unfortunately, these lessons have been learned too late to help the many victim survivors of clergy abuse and promises to do better offer a little consolation to those were abused because of bishop reassigned abuser priests to his or her parish fifty years ago. And the Bishop still haven't fully accounted for how they allowed a culture of abuse tough best joined the church unchecked or decades. Next week survivors of clergy sex abuse have long been silenced, and the church beginning eighty survivors began to support each other and speak out about their experiences reform in progress in the church however imperfect it may be has benefited from their voices. Join US next week as we listen to and learn from their stories. From the Catholic Project at Catholic University of America you're listening to crisis. Our podcast team includes myself Colonel Zoya Executive Producer Steven. White producer Geoff Gosper in communications manager and writer Sarah Perla Sound designed by Paul Bike Kaz. Music courtesy of J. Tibbets, APM music. Our theme song was composed by Gotham Sri. Cushion Marketing and distribution provided by Jeff Umbro of the pod glamorous cover art by Tom Grillo in a very special. Thank you to all of our guests for an episode guide for more information about the Catholic project go to the Catholic Project Dot Org. If you've been sexually assaulted, you can receive confidential support twenty, four seven through the national sexual assault hotline at one, eight, hundred, six, five, six. That's one, eight, hundred, six, five, six, four, six, seven, three. If the abuses related to the Catholic, church you can also contact your diocese victim assistance coordinator contact information for each diocese is available at USC dot. Org forward slash the.
Gloria J. Browne-Marshall
"So we need to understand that people know what oppression is if they don't, they should read more and don't fall away when it becomes uncomfortable because I'm GonNa, still be black then to. There was still black people. Out People Holloway I've tired I. DON'T WANNA botch four. I don't know, but he really was guilty, but he had a gun. You know I'll be black even when you get tired. This works of Justice. podcast is embedded within our rapid response series temperature. Check covid nineteen behind bars. At the data recording on June third twenty twenty the united. States is boiling at the intersection of. As our guest, Gloria j Brown Marshall so clearly names. To insidious in terror, rising diseases the pandemic. And white supremacy. We cannot talk about the impact of the krona virus on incarcerated people without explicitly naming and centralizing the rampant racial injustice that has created our country shameful problem of mass incarceration. What you here today is our prison Justice Writing Program Manager Robbie pollock with support from our intern burkey mcilvaine in powerful conversation with Gloria, Brown Marshall, a valuable member of our prison, Writing Committee who holds an extensive biography that includes being an award-winning civil rights attorney, highly regarded author of numerous books, articles, and plays a sought-after legal commentator and professor of constitutional law at John Jay. College, of criminal justice. In this episode, Gloria, contextualising the long history of systematic murder of black Americans at the hands of the law puts into perspective history of policing in our country, and offers a holistic and inciting call to action, a run, reconciling white privilege and being in right ally ship with black Americans in this critical moment and beyond. Litigation legislation and protests are the ingredients for change that Gloria extends to include the role of the artist. As colleagues, friends and family grapple towards contribution and understanding in this global call to action to witness and dismantle the pervasive anti blackness that riddles every aspect of our lives in America and has invaded our psyches I invite you to listen with a close ear, glorious wisdom and message, and to share it widely. You'll find another of glorious many contributions to our work. In next week's a stronger desire to live a highly emotional and affecting podcast performance, featuring incarcerated writers work that she both helped to curate and voice on air. Join US on June eleventh at five PM es. To listen in partnership with haymarket books. I am cates. Meissner. Pen America's prison injustice Writing Program Director and I am honored to turn this conversation over to such critical leadership in forwarding both a continued. And long overdue conversation. Gloria Browne Marshall. Thank you for being with US Today I. I feel like a weird sort of reverence for you know just for you in your presence in the world. Look at I saw you on CNN and. There, you are standing there, proud and beautiful and black. With the, African cloth behind you, and how was just like you go Gloria? I just have to say that I. Obviously I feel I felt really just. I Dunno stunned by your beauty and your awesomeness and. Yes I think. You've also signed on to be in addition to all your amazing work. In the world, you have contributed heavily as a member of the pen prison writing awards committee which. we feature a lot of work from on this podcast and on our website in our temperature. Check and. I would just WanNa? Know we're grateful for that. Welcome, thank you I. Thank you first for doing this. I mean I. I appreciate the opportunity to use different platforms to get the word out to put ideas into the marketplace of ideas, so I really appreciate this opportunity. Thanks again. So. It's really interesting for me. lately are. A lot of the work that we're putting in the world through our blog and podcast is focused on covid nineteen in prison. And its impact on both the writers we know, but also. Everyone in prison across the country. and Part of what we're seeing. Is this intersection of? Cova and the larger conversations about race in class disparities in this country. So one of one of the things I really wanted to ask you I've heard a phrase being floated around. Sort of characterizing our country is being in the middle of two pandemics both. covid nineteen and the pandemic of systemic racism in like I'd love to hear your thoughts in response to that statement. Will I believe we're into diseased state? One disease, being covid nineteen, the other chronic disease being racism. and. Racism has plagued this country from the root of its beginning in. The colony of Virginia. And we know last year was the four hundredth commemoration of the arrival of Twenty Africans into that colony in sixteen nineteen. And those laws put in place by the House of Burgess says that was also established in sixteen, Nineteen, coincidentally were. Put in place in order to The greed. Of those Englishman who wanted to have perpetual labor without paying for it. And, so those Africans with subjugated and oppressed by law and one of those laws was a law of sixteen sixty nine. which gave. The Englishman the right to kill an African without it being a felony. So we start thinking about how long this has been going on with the murder of people, African descent with impunity. It's been going on since the Virginia Colony. And so there's been progress made in every area of every American life, and that's why don't want people to sail. We've made no progress we have. We've made progress in politics in education. We made policy. We made progress in in. Corporate America in the Arts and Sciences. We've made progress in every area. Except criminal justice, and we're still dealing with the segregationist laws in the oppression that was put in place in the Jamestown settlement of the. Colony were still dealing with slavery type mentality within the criminal justice system in mass incarceration were still dealing with Jim Crow Segregation is justice from the nineteen hundreds were still dealing with murder with impunity. We're still dealing with this in, so it's so deeply embedded in this country that it takes something like this to shock the conscience of not just Americans, but around the world I have friends in Paris and London I had a Brazilian radio station and Television stations asking me about this people. In Canada, this is shocked the world. Because it's happening on two fronts. One is happening from the standpoint of. Just a horrific thing that take place there've been murders in other countries of people of color, but this country self up to be a shining light on the hill of democracy, so you don't set yourself out to be exceptional may talk about American exceptionalism, and then at the same time subjugate people press people murdered them in plain sight, and with such ease in arrogance is officer displayed. And this is something that didn't happen with just George Floyd and it didn't happen with Trayvon Martin. It didn't happen going all the way back to the nineteen sixties and the riots that took place in in Newark. New Jersey because of a black man being shot by police. It doesn't go to. Emmett till it goes all the way back deep into the root of colonial Virginia and so we have a lot of work to do. If we're going to be what we consider, quote, unquote, a civilized nation. but I'm concerned because even in the midst of a pandemic. Even in the midst of a pandemic, we couldn't even just be. Americans joined together in our misery. Against that common full Kovic now we couldn't even be a part of that. Even within the pandemic we are, you know subjugated to such oppressive horrific means this and so it's such a sad time. The disease is so rampant is chronic is ongoing and I. Don't think you know since this is America's original sin that in the subjugation of native Americans for the Land I. Don't think it will ever go away, but we can do better than this. Thank you I? Hear, the central cry of. Sort of Looking back to the original sin, the founding of the country and the principles that it's founded on and it. Reminds me of the Sixteen Nineteen Project So praised and critiqued in the New, York, times, I was. It just made me think also about. The of education and history How has? The separation of From your experience, have you seen in black and Brown students or people of Color, a separation from education about their own history and the history of the country? Well when you have states. That for example Arizona and a fight against actually. In K through twelve education would happen after the Mexican American war and the movement of the the line of the border between Mexico and the United States that left so many people who were earlier Mexican with property as Americans without property. When you start to realize that education that deprives people in this country from knowing the true history, and the instead they're fed propaganda. And so that propaganda is not just in their educational systems propaganda in their informal education. A what I call when people have called others have called you know this. The power of of white. Privilege! And unfortunately, the power white privilege is based in murder. And I actually wrote a poem entitled White Privilege I'm in is pretty. DASTARDLY POEM I go there I go deep. They say. With that poem, because White Privilege is based in murder. We didn't you know? Give away our our land in our labor. It was taken by murder. white privilege is based in. Don't do what I say. Give me what I want. I'll kill you as we see with George Floyd. This is what white privilege is so even when I hear why why people throw that phrase around Oh, I'm sorry I'm using my white privilege. They don't even understand the phrase because the education is not even gotten to the point where they realize how much blood is on the hands of each generation, a white people in this is what I like about the protests. The diversity of the protests were seen in this George case because these white people especially young was with some of the older ones are saying not in my name. I don't want was blood on my hands, and this is what we must do. We must say because if you don't stand up. The blood is on your hands. And we can't escape it just because I didn't learn about that in school. You can watch it on television. You can see it in the news. Don't act like that. Didn't that wasn't a Eric Garner? You saw getting killed time and time again on the news and you sit there and I've heard so many people. Will you see if only he would have and I? I said well. If only we would have been white. It never would have happened so I. Think Education when people say I read about that in school. Nobody taught me. This country has so many books in so much access to information. If People WanNa know they can know what is easy through the privilege of escape to just say I can't deal with that so i. I think education has role K. twelve. The governments have to stop denying the history of this country and living in this vacuum bubble that makes them feel content in their oppression and their benefit of their oppression. People have inherited wealth based on oppression all of that. If you want the wealth fine, you know, we can't go back and change the past, but take the guilt. Guilt that comes with it, don't don't take your wealth and don't take your benefits from you know segregation and from oppression, and then believe that you're supposed guilt free. You can't have it that way. And so I think education caves at twelve education is. I have with my students in my race and Law classes by constitutional law classes. Gender Justice I. Try to remind people. Why this country became wealthy how you came wealthy and so that they began the education there, but continued education for lifetime. That's. Such a powerful answer I agree wholeheartedly our prison writing program as you know has. A mentorship component, which is sort of like education I think a lot of people think of it as into education, although we look at it as much more connective so. The prisoner learns from the Mentor, but the mentor also learned from the prisoner through the exchange on end. I, that also brings me around to this concept of ally ship None of these questions are planned, so just forgive me I'm like literally just kind of going off the cuff, but. W-, I'm wondering what you see is the the main challenges to ally ship, wide ally ship with people of Color as struggle for justice. Well African Americans powerful. We are creative. We've gone through what I say. Four hundred years of perseverance. We're resilient. And we are worthy allies in search a worthy allies. Were not a project. Were not an empty vessel for someone else pour into. We come fully formed. And so because so much. Of what other people who are Non African American non black know about is from a position of pity and sympathy, sometimes empathy, but usually is not a level. Playing field is though we come with nothing. And that concerns me because we don't have to be married, but we do have to have common ground that lasts during an alliance that alliance asked me based on on mutual respect, and in some sense of the empathy that we have for one another I feel sorry for some white people because they are so disconnected that when you do, tell them the truth when it are educated about it, it really messes them up. I've had police officers. Tell me they. Decided to leave the police force when they read my book Race Law in American. Society because they had no idea. That the police department began as slave catchers. And militia to put down native American uprisings, they had no idea they history in the blood on the hands of police officers generation to generation. What White Irish police officers did in order to become American there there are books on this, and so in order for us to understand what an alliance means need to know that we're coming into this both of both sides with something to offer and that our history. Binds US in a lot of different ways, and we're all growing. America's not perfect far from it. But. We need to understand that we're being bound together. In this country based on a mutual history that has given and taken on both sides, the emotional and psychological damage done to white people in this quest to maintain a superiority. They never had in the first place that was all an allusion has created. Levels of mental illness. And I remember talking to Andrew Young, the former ambassador and he told me personally we like he said you know when he worked in civil rights on firsthand on the forefront with Martin. Luther King I said. How did he do that? He said because he looked at them as mentally ill. Why would you believe that somebody could be less than you based on just the pigment of their skin? He said he's he. That's how he was able to do it and you just saw them as mentally ill. So I I think the alliances will be formed. They don't have to be permanent, but they have to be there based on mutual respect and common goal in vision for the country. Thanks Gloria. I'm reminded by your comment about the foundations of police forces in this country to your comment on Anderson Cooper three sixty. where he talked about Three examples specifically of how. I! Think you referred to it as a reasonable standard for the way, the police approach a suspect. Is completely different for black people and for white people. I was wondering if you could talk some more about that because I. Remember feeling flabbergasted as he laid it out so clearly. Yeah when police officers encounter. A suspect, there is a reasonable standard. That's the legal standard on how they are supposed to comport themselves. And so when we think about the reasonable standard as applied to the Boston bomber, who killed and maimed terrorized Boston in vicinity, and was tracked down in found, and they had the the infrared showing that he was hiding in this little boat and they talked him out. Arrested him and he stood trial in was convicted of capital crime. In sentenced to death, he was not shutdown. They could have gone in and just blown up the little boat. They could've shot full of holes. They go to any of those things and they did not. In the shootings that horrible shootings, and the Dr in the theater in Aurora Colorado. That man went in just shut everyone they could find the dead and the dying and living. He was arrested and tried before a court. And and when we look at Eric Frayne, and this is what really gets me. Eric Frayne who executed a state trooper shot another one execute him intentionally walked up to kill because he wanted to start a revolution. That's what he said later do this. He's part of a whole group to kill off their the police officers white killed by white people who WanNa start a revolution or anti-cop anti-government. They're the true anarchists if you think about it. And he led the police in New York. State and Pennsylvania state on a man hunt for weeks. There were like were wanted posters out for him. He was finally caught. He was not shot even now. He was known to have done this. He was brought in, and they roughed him up a little bit. He had one bruce by. And they questioned the police officers. Did you beat him up? He stood trial and was found guilty of a capital offense. And went through the whole process in those were horrific. Crimes committed intentionally in those people live to stand trial. On the other hand, we have George Floyd who was suspected of passing counterfeit twenty dollar bill, which is a federal crime. It's not even for local police officers to do anything with this federal. We have a Michael Brown in Ferguson, who was thought of to have stolen a box of cigars once again. What is supposed to be the reasonable comportment of police officers? And when when you think about this, you just go from one to the other with Eric Garner. He was thought based. Based on the word of someone in a store to be selling loose cigarettes on the street, and we have arrest. Not of those cases should have involved an arrest because there was no evidence outside of the word of one non white, one nine black person I'm assuming wipers person, but one non black person who says this person committed this act. He's not capital offenses. These are not even enough evidence to foreign arrest. You can't go arrest. Somebody based on the word of one person. And yet this is what we have. People who not only arrested but attempted, and then did take the life of that person based on that arrest. This this is what we're talking about. When it comes to actions of reasonableness when there's a black person when there is a wipers. When you say that it fills me with just all the feelings I think about how. Deeply Black kids growing up in the hood internalize these messages and. Cultural as communities. You know that's the thing when you think about Jordan. In Florida who was shot in his car because a white man said his music was up too loud. When you think about all of these things that would give rise to a white man, putting his knee for almost nine minutes in broad daylight. With three other men on top of him. With somebody, taping it and not care and put his hand in his pocket and not care. That's where we are. It doesn't matter what neighborhood it doesn't matter. What social economic status doesn't matter what education doesn't matter. What title? This is the deeply embedded racism in the criminal justice system in this country. I'm so glad you frame it. With such clarity. It's been a really. Tough. Bunch of days and I think about Just the value of having clear thought on all of these things. And, it brings me kind of tonight next question like as A. Playwright and as an educator at John, Jay, I, wonder what you. The role of writing is in creating the opportunity for change. I think writing is essential to change. when it comes to Social Justice I've always said litigation legislation in protest are required to make change in this country. But one thing that's unstated in that is the need for the artist. And there's always been a need in social change for the artist for the rider, the playwright for the sculptor for the poet. The dancer. All those creative outlets are necessary in. I'm concerned because I really don't see the artists. In this the way it should be. In I, hope is rising up I. Remember playing music by by Wynton Marsalis, and after his father died, and you can feel the emotion in the music. We need to have the musicians we need to have those people who can speak to the soul and spirit in hard of what we're going through and I'm hoping that we have a national or international memorial. That, that gives us a chance to grieve to cry to have our our motions expressed, and that's what the artists brings to the table as we go through social change, we've got to have the artists there, and that's every realm of art in I. Look Forward to seeing how this plays out. Brooklyn I'm wondering. If you there and you also have anything any questions to ask. Him. Yeah in here out of into the Gloria conversation. Talk but I just meet them out loud if if that works to. Whatever feels more, Ganic, Gloria. Thank you again for taking the time to talk with us. It feels like healing for. A Very Long Day. You kind of touched on this. Gloria but one of the things. I admire most about you is how you wear all these different hats and contribute to the conversation. Movement in so many different powerful ways. I was curious if you felt that one of these roles suited you more than the others, and why whether about changed on as corporal context, changed Over, time. I used the platform less present it to me. If I could sing, I would, but you don't WanNa. You're missing. Do Do Guitar here. It's happening. It's happening. It's so funny because I used to say if I could sing, I'd be dangerous, but. But I think I remember as a child. Watching television. and seeing this little skinny black man with big is talking on a talk show. And I was a precocious child myself so I used to watch. The Talk Shows Dick Cabinet. Risk those talk shows and I heard him talking about race. And he was so clear and so eloquent and I said in my mind. I WANNA be like him. When I grow up and I tell you right now. It's still gives me chills when I remember it. In. That was James Baldwin. In the more I thought of what he did and I thought about the platforms that he used to do it as a playwright as an essayist as a teacher. Of course as a novelist in and then as a civil rights, activists are those things. It then opened the floodgates from me. You didn't happen all at once, but it gave me permission. To say yes, I can do all these things, too because James Baldwin did it in every time. I think about people telling me no or they're uncomfortable with my advocacy when I'M A. Civil Rights Attorney and they want me as being a playwright and they don't understand. Why do this and I have to choose I don't have to do anything except stay. Black in dies sometimes. Pay My taxes when you think. You know. We want to put like limits on other people and you know like. Do these things. If you can't handle it I'll see I'll keep the I'll tap it down, so you don't have to deal with that when I'm in particular arena. But. I'M GONNA. Do what I'm GonNa. Do this is Stephen. Biko's said I write. Would I liked? I write what I want, and still that's what I do. as far as social change goes. There what would were missing in this aspect of social change two things it may be third with two one. We're not causing any consequences until now. This is what happened Martin Luther King Gay, people consequences. When he had Bus Boycott that was economic consequences. When he had sit in that, he led walls for consequences to those stores also consequences to those. The woolworth in those other like eating establishments, and what was happening up to this point, we didn't wanNA hurt somebody economically socially politically shamefully. And now you can see when you give people consequences. It doesn't have to be violent consequences, but there has to be consequences. And I think that was the difference in social change and other leaders understood this nervous reason, it wasn't understood in this arena until now so I'm hoping that people will grasp this and also the second one I said there needs to be vision and I go to proverbs, it says without vision the people perish, and if there's no vision that leads us working together, litigation lettuce legislation protests with a vision of how we want to be treated a vision of what the country should be doing how the law should be acted or change I mean the prosecutor Cross prosecutor's power is corrupted because there's no consequence to what they're doing. The police have been corrupted because there's no consequence. Consequence so I'm looking for the Vision on looking for the consequence and the last one on looking for the alliances that will allow us to have a vision of a country that has everyone working together because by the year twenty fifty, this nation is going to be majority of people of Color, and I'm afraid that we're either going to go into an apartheid state are going to be living as a community Martin Luther King's book title says it Best Where do we go from here? Chaos, unity, chaos or community, so we need to understand. We're at across road where we're going to go from here. That's the question I. think that's up near right now. That everyone fears. Yeah. I have another question that actually. Segues well with what you were just saying. and I really appreciate about answer. According to the new report, the attack on security has most impacted the black votes and of course. That's not something that like anyone can really control right now. But how would you advise to combat that? And how do you see impacting the Blofeld and the twenty twenty election? I'm so glad that people are still talking about those I wrote a book voting rights war and I wrote the book voting rights for at the end of Obama's second term because I said people are going to want some type of spiritual experience when they go vote and it was never meant to be that you know this anomaly of voting for a black president that get everybody's so excited. You can't get that with their reelection. Don't vote for the school board for a spiritual experience and so a this. Year is one hundred fiftieth anniversary of the black man gaining the right to vote in eighteen seventy. Is One hundredth anniversary of women gaining the right to vote with the nineteenth amendment in one, thousand, nine, hundred twenty. What is also the hundredth anniversary of the end of the Spanish flu? As well as a census year. And the after the nineteen nineteen red summer. Was the hundredth anniversary of the year after they sell. I want to understand what we're dealing with now. Zeman dealt with before a hundred years ago. What did we do then? We kept our eyes on the prize. So as Russians in cyberspace, cyber attacks, and all these things are undermining our vote. We have now a hundred years ago. We had to Ku. Klux Klan the John Birch Society. We had oppression. We had sheriffs in poll tax. We literacy tests. We've always had people attacking at the American vote because it's a powerful tool, and so we need to understand that attacks will continue to happen with our I should be on the prize, and we should be using our cohesiveness and our alliances to make sure that we don't forget. This is a national election year. Yes. Yes. Gloria? It has been a pleasure I. Appreciate your time your vision, your effort, your volunteerism, your education. I can't say it enough. Are there any final words that you want to add. We need to reform. The prosecutorial system will need to on hold. Police officers accountable. We need to read more about how we got in the situation. The first place and we need to go beyond the emotion of this moment to maintain our alliances. I've been here before. And I've seen things. Dwindle and go away and people make excuses that we have to have these drastic murders of people of African descent in order for white people and other non black people to believe in the oppression in the system, while we're in a country where people are here, because either their generation or generations before them came here because of oppression filled in other countries that look just like this. And yet they get here and get him Nesia about what oppression looks like. And this is troubling, so we need to understand that people know what oppression is. If they don't, they should read more and don't fall away when it becomes uncomfortable because I'm GONNA still be black than to? There were still. People. To really why people? I'm tired I. DON'T WANNA part you any anymore. I don't know what he really was guilty, but he had a gun. You know I'll be black even when you get tired so and we need to get the black middle class to stop hovering around the edges and jump into the fight, too many educated black people, too many people who have skin in this game. Who are pretending like they don't. Because of the privilege of Skate. So. So, that's why I just want people to. Look at this moment. Remember it, but this too shall pass, and then where will we be? Gloria Browne Marshall. Thank you for joining US Brooke mcilvaine. Thank you for your input and we really really appreciate it. have a wonderful night. Thank you. Thank, you thank you, thank you for all you do. You're listening to works of justice a podcast by pen America.
Guac and TikTok: Chipotles recipe for success
"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by MD Anderson Cancer Center home to one of the nation's largest cancer clinical trial programs of its kind providing hope to patients new approaches in detection an advanced therapies more at making cancer history dot Com and by Code Wizards HQ The number one coding school for kids and Teens ages eight to eighteen it's on topics that are relevant. Active traders who are seeking Alpha be sure to subscribe to Alpha traitor now skills will prepare them to thrive in technologically advanced world that's changing every day go online to code wizards H Q dot Com and use offer code marketplace to get nations. I'm Scott Tong for marketplace all right the department store macy's has just announced it will stop selling products made with for the change not case used to email addresses at work one under his name one under an alias the company says the second email was created for quote secure community what we anticipate is going to be dramatic change in how governments approach climate risk in other words Exxon was clear eyed about taxes and regulations on out the value of its stock by telling them one thing and doing another from the Marketplace Sustainability Desk Scott Tong has a preview the accusation is Exxon Mobil used on demand many years down the road I'm not sure that's fraud he says analysts who follow Exxon aren't even talking about this case and if the company were to lose much in the way of additional costs based on a climate risk regulation a problem with that as the argument goes is Exxon Mobil Oil and gas decisions that were to risk the case much differently I think it's part of a much broader effort to figure out a way to address climate change when there's a perception that the federal percent off your first month of big oil company is on trial today Hi David Brancaccio in New York and Exxon Mobil trial set to start so fuel use but in private the plaintiff says the company's actions were altogether different the internal reports effectively say well we don't anticipate cost the company David Shapiro at John Jay College of Criminal Justice says that's in a certain message to Exxon stockholders and they would say hey Exxon is accounting the place in twenty twenty one all of macy's locations macy's also owns bloomingdale's which will also stop selling for marketplace Justin how has more on this business sets of books on climate change in its risk the plaintiff the Attorney General of New York argued that the company told investors that it's a future with lots of carbon regulations and use the amount would be negligible but litigation analysts Brandon Barnes at Bloomberg intelligence the state attorneys general and others bringing energy and climate lawsuits see today's while CEO of atoms funds which holds Exxon stock one you've got actual hard cost that you can actually consider the second is a bunch of assumptions you have to make and moving fast enough the Exxon Mobil trial could provide drama in the form of emails a pretrial investigation found that REX Tillerson who was CEO for the period in New York today has to do with climate change but perhaps not in the way you might think the state of New York argues Exxon defrauded its investors misleading them and cultural shift story just in why now well the way macy's tells it there's a changing tide away from her and for products macy said it looked at I'm I San Francisco and La did and New York City's thinking about doing the same sounds like the time had come yet but it's not as clear cut as one might think it's worth noting the and hid it from investors but Exxon Mobil calls that a baseless theory and then it used to different cost assumptions their apples and oranges it makes sense to mark stokes started to disavow the use of for just more black women have started being able to afford it is for selling these days well the research outfit Euromonitor found that consumer tastes and for alternatives found that verse hills just aren't a material part of its business and a lot of the brands that sales don't make any products anyway plus a lot of cities are aid plus for is a symbol of luxury and achievement for instance the New York Times published a piece earlier this year highlighting I significance with black women and it pointed out that people have that I just such a huge part of American history in colonial expansion commodity the first millionaire in the US John Jacob Astor made a lot of his fortune in the fur trade bowl still want it if found that last year the use of for clothing and accessories reached his highest level in seventeen years and we're talking here about items like ugh boots and this marketplace podcast is our curbed after the election the Canadian dollar is down slightly this morning at one thirty point nine to the US dollar the footsie index in London up four tenths percent here Dow S&P Nasdaq futures are little changed with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau staying in office but with this in Canada Goose Parkas with fur lining macy's has parts of what's weaning its customers offer are the for alternatives out there like fo- for but on the other hand for industry groups will point out that those alternatives often get stuck in landfills and aren't biodegradable like real for as marketplace's Justin Ho thank you for this let us do the numbers brought to you by Cronos Cronos knows that hiring and retaining a modern workforce of salaried hourly full and part-time workers can be challenging especially in today's competitive job market every step of the way learn more at Kronos dot com slash HR swagger cronos workforce innovation that works the Corporate Mexican food that's why Cronos puts HR payroll talent and time in one place so HR professionals supporting a blended workforce have all the tools they need to engage and motivate their people signed restaurant and that has endeared to millennials says Alex Suskind Cornell University figuring out how to reach them through their phones made a really big difference marketplace's Megan McCarthy Carino has more on the turnaround the recipe for Chipotle as recent success is kind of like that famous line from the movie the graduate but instead of dance challenge which brings us to record per capita consumption of Avocados last year and plastic's three words avocados any os and digitizing that's PR specialist gene Grabowski with digitizing he says the ex Mackenzie says to avoid becoming a quote footnote to history traditional banks need to innovate themselves maybe by innovation or simply to merge together these virtual teacher led classes have student success rate that's fifteen times better than self paced video courses and tutorials whatever your child's interests these computer programming next global downturn what did I say yes that is the claim in a new report from the consultancy McKinsey This is half the banks around the world are too weak to survive for them they've also stepped up social media efforts to get even younger customers including on the new tick Tock App all the kids are using there's something called the Guac gene has been pretty successful thanks to a well designed APP with delivery options and a loyalty program online orders now account for almost twenty percent of sales at the famously long line. Em American public media this marketplace podcast is supported by Alpha Trader Alpha trader is a weekly investor focused podcast produced by seeking Alpha that will blaze chipotle lay has been on the comeback after the food safety problems of two thousand fifteen its stock has more than doubled this year and it's summer to fall profit report is due today Google could jump further into financial services bank spent just over a third of their information tech budgets on innovation compared to seventy percent for the so-called Fintan dive into the most impactful market news and set the stage for upcoming market events hosted by Aaron task and Stephen Alpher every Tuesday new episodes include discussions with market experts restaurant selling Guacamole that can add up to a lot of green. I'm Megan mccurdy Reno
Biden departs on first overseas trip
"This episode of five things is brought to you by pay com. Here's some bad news. Seventy seven percent of employees are frustrated with outdated tech at work. The good news pay com can help learn how the right. Hr tech can boost morale by visiting pay com dot com slash frustrations. That's pay com dot com slash frustrations. Good morning i'm taylor wilson and this is five things you need to know. Wednesday the ninth of june. Twenty twenty one. Today president joe biden heads out for his first overseas trip in office. Plus the latest on global internet outage tuesday morning and more a year or some of the top had lots canadian prime minister justin trudeau is calling truck attack a hate crimes against muslims. The driver of the truck killed four members of an immigrant family. In london ontario on sunday authorities are searching for suspected. Hit and run driver. Who killed three children in southern california. A fourth child was also injured as the girls including two in wheelchairs walked along a desert highway at night over the weekend and a pickup truck drifted onto the shoulder hit them from behind and the pittsburgh pirates bryan hayes had a homerun taken off the board during their game tuesday night because he did not touch first base when running the bases president. Joe biden is leaving wednesday for his first overseas trip in office. The european journey will last eight days. He'll attend the group of seven. Summit in cornwall england before heading to brussels for a nato summit and a meeting with european union chiefs then biden heads to geneva switzerland for the most high profile leg of his trip. A meeting with russian president vladimir putin usa today international correspondent. Kim helm guard has more in terms of the impacts of the lessons or the conclusions that us audiences might draw from biden's first overseas trip. I think the the one will be kind of symbolic in. This'll be biden's going out in the world and confirming a lot of the stuff that he came up with on the campaign trail and has tried to sort of implicitly live by uh since becoming president which is about. You know saying america's back in the world after the trump years where there was a a relative retrenchment in terms of engaging without allies and being cooperative player. so i think biden. We'll talk a lot about the value of of democracies Banding together to fight various issues. There'll be a lot of kind of fanfare associated with this summit. Will they hold a joint press conference will it will it be separate will biden. Look mr putin in the eye and and say something that you know and slightly antagonistic. Because let's let's be honest. Biden his isabey macho right As mr putin putin every year you can buy calendar of mr putin available for purchase in russia. Showing him bare-chested on horseback out hunting. You know catching the most amazing trout in a siberian river. Just just looking like a dude. Who knows how to do stuff. Pack policy right and so news is an entertainment but some people you know that will be of interest to them but in terms of of more substantial points. I mean i think americans will want to know how long this these hacking things are gonna go on and You know there is a very real real world impact. When a gas pipeline is hijacked has an impact there is obviously a real world impact when Election is metal. Then in some form so biden will be pressing these points putin on the other hand it remains to be seen. How much crowd he he. He could give he will give 'cause he's not going to admit to any of these transgressions you know and on the other hand biden will make it clear that you know the us doesn't do transactional kind of politics doesn't say let human rights personality jail and then you know we'll release. This will drop the sanction. or what have you. It will be one to watch. They'll have some historical significance because u. s. and russian leaders appearing in places like geneva. Vienna or or helsinki. They always end up in the history books. So i think americans will be fascinated by that as well for more on the trip and what's happening around the world you can find kim's work on the world section at usa today dot com slash news. If you were up early tuesday morning in the us you probably noticed you could not access a huge chunk of the internet. A widespread outage took down websites including google amazon reddit. Cnn and even usa today problem started just after five thirty a m eastern time and lasted nearly an hour in some spots. So what happened. Brett molina and mike snyder discussed on the talking tech podcast. The roughly hour-long disruption has been linked back to the cloud content company. Fastly saying it was caused by a service configuration that they've since disabled. That's right brad. So most of us have not heard of fast. But it's a san francisco based content delivery network or in now the big. Cdn's are amazon and cloud fair and what they do for companies just new york times usa. Today get hub pinterest and others is. They have thousands of computer servers around the us and around the globe cash or store content so when you click and want to read a story or page or watch a video. It's faster than if you had to go to new york or wherever the online site is in the physical world now it's likely interruptions like this will happen again and again because so much of what we do now involves cloud computing with everything from the software with which we communicate with our coworkers to our entertainment systems to on online delivery. And all these things we do on our phones now redundancy of networks having backup systems probably prevent outages from happening more often and experts. I talked to about the situation suggest. That's a lesson we should all take personally for instance. If you only have important files on your computer or they're stored in the cloud you might want to add. Another layer of redundancy. So maybe a second computer holds copies of the files and they're encrypted or perhaps you store them on an external hard drive or usb memory stick and keep them somewhere not at your home. These precautions could come in handy. Should there be a flood or disaster. Or maybe your computer gets hit with malware ransomware or should there be an outage that prevents you from getting to your cloud service so these are all good things i think about. You know whenever you have a situation where you can't get onto twitter. Get onto facebook. Get on to whatever service you're trying to do. You know that could happen to you. Yeah as as one analyst told me you can't really guarantee one hundred percent availability for any of these services. Something's bound to happen so it's always good to be prepared. I mean in the old days we had a wire that went from our house to the tv system. The pay tv system. Whatever and that was that was everything worked great until like somebody chopped the line right will. Now we have. So many things connected through Wireless networks and they're stored on computers all over the world that there's going to be an issue once an absolutely for more. Subscribe to talking tech wherever you get your pods. And he can find more of brett. And mike's work on the tech section of usa today. Hundreds of people face charges after a year's long fbi sting involving a phone encryption program officials say that criminals without knowing it used the program to run drug transactions around the world a nam the fbi is encrypted device. Company was used by more than three hundred criminal organizations in the us. Canada australia new zealand in europe. Adam scott wont from john. Jay college of criminal justice explain to the ap. This software was pretty widespread use around the world. So it's going to be extremely disruptive to criminal enterprises all across the world The fbi did an amazing job getting this software out there and being used by nine thousand devices and not only are they able to look at who the people are communicating with. They're able to see what was said and basically have copies of all the information on your own servers. I think that the average criminal has an inherent distrust in the system. So they don't want us mainstream technologies and communicating thinking that they're being spied on so they went and they found a third party app in this case and in this case it was a third party app that was run directly by the fbi. The subject of encryption has been a controversial one for law enforcement officials technology companies and privacy advocates alike in one instance. The justice department and apple had been in a tug of war over whether apple should help investigators by unlocking. Iphones used by suspects in high profile shootings. The tech giant last year refused to create a back door that would allow investigators to bypass encryption features in phones linked to the shooter. Who killed three people at a florida naval base president. Joe biden is shifting negotiations for his infrastructure plan away from republicans and toward a group of moderate senators on both sides of the aisle biden. Is ramping up. Talks with a group of senators including democrats kirsten cinema and joe manchin and republicans. Mitt romney portman and bill cassidy at the same time house. Democrats are going ahead wednesday to begin drafting infrastructure legislation but biden's push for an infrastructure. Bill comes after senator manchin said he supports keeping the filibuster. A sixty vote rule that can be used by the minority party. Currently republicans to block legislation that means democrats would need the support of ten republicans to pass most bills in a senate. That split fifty fifty. The latest series from the marvel. Cinematic universe hits disney plus on wednesday. Low-key follows tom. Hit allston as a nor scott after his escape in avengers endgame we protect the proper flow of time. You picked up the tesseract breaking reality. I want you to help us fix it by me. I need your unique loki perspective. Do i get a weapon in the first episode. Loki is apprehended by the time variance authority. They're an employee played by owen. Wilson uses the anti hero to help track down a dangerous fugitive. Who's hurting the timeline. And killing time variants agents usa today tv critic. Kelly lawler likes what she's seen so far. She wrote quote. This is the first marvel series on disney plus to have a firm hold of its identity from the word go thanks for listening to five things. A reminder you can subscribe for free and also rate and review on apple podcasts. You can also find us wherever your audio. Thanks as always to shannon green and fortin for the great work on the show. Five things is part of the usa today network. Five things is supported by pay com according to new one poll research shared by pay com employees or so frustrated with tech. They use at work. That sixty seven percent said they're willing to take a pay cut for something better. Ouch only pay comes. Comprehensive technology automates their hr and payroll tasks a single software. That's easy to use and for employers automatically measures the roi that results learn. How the right. Hr tech can help by visiting pay com dot com slash frustrations. That's pay com dot com slash frustrations.
Vice President Kamala Harris has a message for American women
"Hiring can feel like trying to find a needle in a haystack. But when you post a job on ziprecruiter their matching technology finds qualified candidates for you and invites them to apply so well other companies. Give you too many options. Ziprecruiter finds you the needle in the haystack. And right now you can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash five things. We need to have a commitment to universal pay. Sick leave paid family leave. We need to have and this is part of what we have done in the american ask you plan saying that childcare needs to be affordable and available good morning. I'm taylor wilson and this is five things you need to know friday. The twenty sixth of march twenty twenty one today vice president. Khama harris sits down with usa today loss updates in the aftermath of the boulder shooting and more or some of the top headlines. At least five people are dead. After several severe tornados hit alabama. There are also multiple reports of destroyed homes and more than thirty five thousand homes and businesses are without power beliefs evicted residents of a large homeless encampment around los angeles is echo park lake on thursday. The move came despite calls from protesters to not force the people out of the area. Those who left were offered temporary housing and jessica. Walter has died. The actress was known for her work on tv shows including arrested development and archer. She was eighty years old vice president. Khama harris is usa. Today's first honoree in our women of the year initiative. The project is a year long effort to recognize the strong and resilient women who have been leaders and champions often quietly but with powerful results. Vice-president harris broke a glass ceiling earlier this year becoming the first woman as vice president of the united states and also the first black and south asian person to hold that office. She recently sat down with usa today. Editor in chief. Nicole carol and opinion columnist suzanne hackney. Here's part of their discussion. This segment about paid leave. Majority of minimum wage workers are women and women of color right and by the way federal minimum wage is seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour and the math on that is. That's fifteen thousand dollars a year right and we are talking about those same jobs. Disproportionately being jobs that. Do not give paid sick. Leave paid family leave. Those are jobs that that make childcare unaffordable. And so what do we need to. We need to have a commitment to universal. Paid sick leave. Paid family leave. We need to have and this is part of what we've done in. The american rescue plan saying that childcare needs to be affordable and available because we have many places in the country including our rural communities that are experiencing what we call cared desert so even before the pandemic childcare it was not available in a certainly was not affordable. So these are some of the things that we need to do. We also need to value the dignity of work and when we look at the jobs that women are performing in particular in lower wage positions. These are the jobs in invariably about caring for other human beings and we as a society should value that. It's an incredible gift that they give us as a society but we have sadly diminished the our recognition of its value and the reflection of our diminishing appreciation of its values that we're not paying people enough money to do the work that they're doing and so that's also about increasing wages and And again recognizing the dignity of that work in the dignity. Those workers that those skilled professionals give the people that they treat. You can find the full interview on usa today dot com and we're opening up nominations to the public for our women of the year initiative. You can use our form to suggest a woman you feel should be recognized for making a difference in their communities find the form at women of the year dot usa today dot com. Nominations will be accepted until april thirtieth president. Joe biden held his first solo press conference since taking office on thursday biden made news on a number of issues including his legislative priorities foreign policy and his administration's handling of unaccompanied migrant children at the border. He also told reporters that his number one priority. So far has been the ongoing pandemic and economic fallout. I got elected to solve problems and the most urgent problem faced the american people. I stated from the outset was covert nineteen and the economic dislocation for millions and millions of americans. and so. that's why. I put all my focus in the beginning or a lot of problems but all my focus on dealing with those particular problems and the other problems. We're talking about from immigration to guns in the other things you mentioned are long term. Problems have been around a long time and what we're going to be able to do. God willing is now began one at a time to focus on those as well and whether it's immigration or guns or a number of other problems face the country but the fundamental problem is getting people some peace of mind so they can go to bed at night and not stare at the ceiling wonder where they lost their health insurance whether they're going to lose family member whether they're going to be in a position where they're not going to be. They're gonna lose their home because they can't pay their mortgage or the millions of people are going to get thrown out of their homes because of the inability to to pay the rent biden was also pressed on how to deal with a heavily partisan senate and particularly what he plans to do with the controversial filibuster which currently requires sixty votes in the evenly. Split senate to pass most bills white house correspondent courtney super manian has more this question of if the democrats should remove the filibuster in order to push through some of these priorities on the biden agenda gun reform Comprehensive immigration voting rights these issues that republicans have said that. They're they're not willing to come to the table and negotiate on and he was asked several times about whether he supported blowing up or ending this this legislative tactic that requires sixty votes in the senate and of course the senate is sharply divided Fifty fifty with Vice president khama harris being casting the tie breaking vote and by ending the filibuster that would allow them to pass some of these priorities that he has said our. Our urgent and you know are these. This is the moment we have to do that. He dodged the question a few times but it was put to him that his old boss or obama had said that the filibuster was the route was a relic of the jim crow era and he was asked if he agreed with that he said yes. But then you know the follow up was will if you agree with that then why keep it in place and this is a guy who spent thirty six years in the senate. This is a president who fully reveres the senate. He understands government in a way that a lot of modern presidents haven't since lbj. He knows that there are moments when you can pull levers. He understands the dynamic. He paused and he said. Let's take care of the abuse i he. He had mentioned earlier. That He that the filibuster is being abused. So there's a lot of pressure right now for him to you. Know get behind this idea of removing this arcane senate rule and he he still hasn't he's he's inched closer to it but he's still pushing this idea that he would like to return to a talking filibuster which requires senators to stand on the talk until until they drop basically in order to delay a vote on a bill for all the latest from the white house. You can follow courtney on twitter at m. sub more updates are coming friday in the aftermath of a mass shooting earlier this week in boulder colorado police. There will hold a news conference to discuss the latest after. A gunman killed ten people in a supermarket on monday. Police arrested twenty one year old. Ahmad ali eliza who's currently being held without bail pending a mental health assessment. His defense lawyer catherine herald requested that the next hearing be delayed at least two months to allow for the assessment the nature and only elissa faces ten counts of first degree murder and boulder county district. Attorney michael doherty said thursday. That more charges are coming. I wanna make sure that people have older county have an opportunity in this case to be held here for this trial to be conducted here to the right result be reached right here in this house. We have filed ten counts of murder in the first degree and one count of attempted murder and first degree for one of the police officers. Who had responded to the scene. Additional counts will certainly be filed in the next couple of weeks. Once that documents with the court we will make it of adults in the community and to the public. Meanwhile the shooter's gun is stirring an ongoing national debate around firearms six days before opening. Fire the suspect a router. Ar 556 pistol. It looks like a rifle operates like one and also takes the same ammunition as the ar. Fifteen which has been used in countless us mass shootings. But it's not considered a rifle under current gun laws. A rifle of the same size would have been subject to a background check additional taxes and possibly a weight of several months before the gun was registered. But the suspect didn't have to do that with the ruger since it's a pistol. Christopher herman a former new york city police officer and assistant professor at john jay college of criminal justice said quote. You've taken this deadly ar fifteen weapon and now you've made it concealable unquote for their part. Police in boulder have not specified. What gone was used in the attack but a forties have noted that the suspect was found with two weapons including one that they did repeatedly call a rifle millions more got their covid nineteen relief payments this week as part of the second wave of checks and deposits and out by the irs finance reporter. Jessica benton has more info for those who are still waiting on their money. Thirty seven million americans are set to receive their stimulus checks after the irs sent out a second round of payments this month that brings the total dispersed payments from the latest covert relief package to about one hundred twenty seven million the payments which total up to fourteen hundred dollars each distributed mostly via direct deposit along with paper checks and debit card. Sit through the mail like the first batch of payments. The checks went primarily to eligible taxpayers who provided direct deposit information on their twenty eighteen or twenty twenty returns that also includes people don't typically file return but provided the reformation to the irs last year through its online non filers tool the payments will continue to roll out in batches to millions of americans in the coming weeks. The irs has said until the of the year basically it has to continue to issue the third round of paintings in we'll be reviewing returns for twenty twenty so for those who either didn't qualify for a third stimulus check based on your twenty nineteen income or about less than you were. Do you should file return. But the irs. As soon as possible the agency will do a re determination. Ninety days after the tax filing deadline and issue a supplemental payment based on your twenty twenty income as long as you're eligible to get the updates on the status of your neck stimulus teammate. Use the irs. Get my payment tool on irs.gov. Amanda gorman the twenty-three-year-old poet became a household name after reciting her poem. The hill we climb at president. Joe biden's inauguration. Now she's talking to oprah in the conversation gorman will revisit her historic moment and also talk about women who inspire her including maya angelou. Toni morrison and oprah winfrey herself. The interview airs friday on apple. Tv thanks for listening to five things. If you have a sec please go ahead and drop us. Five stars on apple podcasts. And you can also find us wherever you get your audio including spotify stitcher and others. Thanks as always clear thornton shannon green and all of our great reporters for their work on the show. Five things is part of the usa. Today now five. Things is supported by ziprecruiter. Good news entrepreneurial. Optimism has increased in fact. A recent survey shows the highest ever intent for people to start their own businesses in spring. Two thousand twenty one. Have you ever wanted to start a business or a side gig. I've toyed with the idea of opening an animal rescue shelter once or twice of course starting or growing a business means hiring and for that i'd turn to ziprecruiter. five things. listeners. Can try it for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash. Five things when you post a job on ziprecruiter it gets sent out to over one hundred. Top job sites with one. Click their matching technology. Scans thousands of resumes and profiles to send you the most qualified people for your role. If you're really interested in a candidate you can even invite them to apply. and right. now you can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash five things that's ziprecruiter dot com slash. The number five t h i n g s ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire.
Thu. 05/28 - Can Biomarkers Tell Us How COVID-19 Affects People Differently?
"Welcome to the good news. Ride home for Thursday. May Twenty eight th two thousand and twenty. I'm Jackson very is the corona virus more dependent on super spreaders than we thought. Research indicates possible biological markers to determine how severely an individual will react to covid nineteen and how the decline of local journalism is taking a toll on America's small towns plus. Will we be able to trust our memories of this time? Cannibalistic dinosaurs and why or Jews are sold in Red Mesh bags? The United Kingdom is rolling out a new testing and tracing initiative. Today quoting the New York Times. People with potential covid nineteen symptoms will be tested and if positive be asked to list everyone. They've been recently in close contact with for at least fifteen minutes and those people will in turn be contacted and asked to isolate themselves for fourteen days. The country's Health Secretary Matt Hancock said this week that the program aimed to replace a nationwide lockdown with individual isolation or smaller localized restrictions. If new cases emerge the move comes a day after Francis Parliament approved the deployment of a contact tracing APP. That has set off an intense debate in the country. Critics question how the gathered data will be used and worry about setting a precedent for state run monitoring but Francis Data. Privacy watchdog ruled that. The APP has sufficient safeguards end quote. Mexico is facing a devastating shortage of healthcare workers and equipment with over eleven thousand three hundred healthcare workers falling ill one of the highest rates in the world quoting the Times. We've had many of what we call dome deaths said Pablo via Senor doctor. The General Hospital into WANNA the center of an outbreak. It's not the virus that's killing them. It's the lack of proper care. Patients die because they're given the wrong medications or the wrong dose. Healthcare workers said protective gloves at some hospitals are so old they crack the moment there slipped. On nurses said Mexico's government spends less on healthcare as a percent of its economy than most countries in the Western Hemisphere according to the World Bank president over door presided over spending cuts even after acknowledging that his country had two hundred thousand fewer healthcare workers than it needed and quotes as the tourism industry seeks to revive itself. Some nations are getting creative. Cyprus is now saying that it will cover the costs of lodging food drinks and medication for any travelers who test positive for corona virus after visiting the country tourism accounts for fifteen percent of Cypresses economy. And they've seen less than one thousand cases of Corona virus and senator. Tim Kaine has announced that he and his wife tested positive for coronavirus antibodies. They experienced flu like symptoms around the time. The Senate took a recess in late March but weren't originally tested due to a scarcity of supplies and the mild nature of their symptoms. This makes him the second confirmed. Us senator to have recovered from covid. Nineteen the other one being Senator Rand Paul. I've got two pieces of cautiously optimistic news from New York magazine's Corona Virus Roundup. I is that the corona virus may be more dependent on large public events in super spreaders than we originally thought quoting New York magazine. The media conversation about SARS COV to popularized one key epidemiological variable are the average number of people in afflicted individual infects before social distancing measures were enacted the corona virus. Had an are of about three and yet this average obscures. The profound variation between individuals estimates vary but multiple research teams believed that the typical covid nineteen patient does not infect a single other person a reality that is concealed by the prolific transmission rates of so-called super spreaders in fact according to a new study from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine L. S. H. T. M. about ten percent of Corona virus. Patients are responsible for eighty percent of all new infections. This means that the coronavirus is high are is potentially mitigated by. Its Lo que. A variable that describes how reliant disease is on clusters of infection in order to spread viruses with a high k such as the nineteen eighteen influenza can spread diffusely through a large number of individuals. Those with a Lo que. Such as the novel Coronavirus Close Relatives. Sars and Moore's cannot sustain themselves without super spreaders. This was one reason. Why both of those coronavirus is burned out quickly and never recurred research from the University of Bern suggests that the corona virus has a slightly higher k than SARS or Murs but one that is much lower than that of the Spanish flu. This finding makes some of the random disparities in outcomes easier to understand a virus with a Lo que value needs a bit of luck to get off the ground. If such a bug gets itself into the rate human say one who's to committed to choir practice to let a cold keep them home. It can gain a foothold in a community. If it infects a bunch of lonely homebodies meanwhile it will die out before making its presence felt as the novel. Coronavirus sensibly did in France last December. If SARS COV to has a K. As low as the L. S. H. T. M. study claims then would need to be introduced to a new country four separate times before securing a fifty fifty chance of infecting enough people to sustain a prolonged outbreak and quote. So this could be one reason. We haven't seen massive surges in places that reopened businesses but didn't resume large public gatherings like concerts and sporting events. It could also mean that maybe we can resume some activities like non-essential shopping even as we have to pause larger scale gatherings potentially including open office plans for much longer. The other bit of cautiously optimistic news is that scientists are making progress on identifying biomarkers that determine whether an individual will have a mild or severe reaction to covid nineteen researchers in Wuhan analyzing four hundred eighty five corona virus patients with machine learning tools to isolate biological characteristics found quote. Three biological markers are so predictive of mortality they can signal whether a covid nineteen patient will develop life threatening illness with ninety percent accuracy. More than ten days ahead of time. The three so-called by markers all of which can be measured using a single drop of blood were elevated levels of the enzyme lactic dehydrogenation or L. D. H. Low levels of lymphocytes. I E white blood cells and high sensitivity C reactive proteins which are indicative of respiratory inflammation and quotes. Now those three things may or may not mean much to you and your ability to rate your own odds but if those or similar findings pan out it will be incredibly helpful to healthcare workers to be able to better allocate hospital resources and make treatment plans for individual patients but as with everything with the corona virus while both of these bits of news are backed up by legit studies. There's still just preliminary findings only small pieces of the overall puzzle. Plus as the article says this pandemic has routinely cast chaos as the protagonist as the corona virus continues spreading through more rural communities across America. There have been a lot of concerns. Raised lack of well-funded hospitals older populations more prevalent medical conditions. But there's another way. Some of these communities might be at a disadvantage the decline of local journalism rating in the Atlantic Mark. Bodin points out quote while all of us get reams of reporting about national and International Covid nineteen trends. Most of us get little or no reporting about what's happening in the communities where we actually live. He Continues. Local news has largely disappeared. The phenomenon of news desert's is by now well known and yet never has the need for local information. Been grader the big news can be completely at odds with the small news and for individuals. It's the small news that matters. Most the crucial virus. Data is hyper local in my neighborhood hidden within a larger geographic picture. Who's trends give cause for hope? The disease is spiking dramatically. Even scarily and almost nobody knows end quote. Boden says he's been keeping an eye on corona virus related stats by municipality published in The Philadelphia Inquirer and noticed a worrying spike in his home of Kennett Square. A small borough South West Philadelphia. He notes that it's the kind of thing a local reporter would write about but there are no local reporters and because the municipality is so small this spike isn't even being reported on the larger Counties Department of Health Website. His points small communities are being overlooked by larger media and without local journalists to uncover an amplify this vital information. The people in those communities might not get it until it's too late the race to develop a corona virus vaccine is underway. It is the most important problem. We face solving. It means saving lives around the world and getting the global economy back on track right now. Investors have unique opportunity to not only invest early in cutting edge corona virus vaccine innovation. But to help move the world forward by investing in mid VACs with our crowd spent the last four years developing successful. Avian vaccines and quickly pivoted to develop a covid. Nineteen vaccine when Corona virus surfaced. They're now moving towards clinical trials and are working quickly to produce ineffective vaccine. Our crowd is investing in the important vaccine. Work Mig vaccines doing and has made it so. Accredited investors can join them and invest to our crowds crowd. Sourced investing platform gives accredited investors access to early stage funding rounds in some of the most promising companies around the world. They help you invest before the companies public like they have with beyond meat and our crowd backed companies have been bought by Nike or Goal Uber Comcast Intel snap and more learn more about investing in MiG VACs at our crowd. Dot Com slash. Good news setting up. Your account is free and you can get started right now at our crowd. Dot Com slash. Good News that'S O. U. R. C. R. O. W. D. DOT COM slash. Good News Beach Body on. Demand is how you can stay in shape while you're stuck at home. Beach Body is the company behind p ninety x Insanity and the twenty one day fix. You can get motivated by celebrities. Super Trainers. You know. Tony Horton Joel. Freeman Jericho mcmath. Us and autumn caliber. They have the best programs hundreds of effective workouts for fitness levels ranging from bodybuilding to weight training and cardio hit to Yoga dance workouts all streaming to whatever device. You want the on your computer web enabled. Tv tablet smartphone roku apple TV chrome cast and more and again. They don't require any extra equipment just some room in your house. A device to stream on say morning meltdown. One hundred every morning to start your day. Some of the workouts are short as ten minutes. In the time it takes you to drive and Park at the gym. You can be finished working out and right now listeners. To this podcast can get special free trial membership when you text. Good news to thirty thirty thirty. You'll get full access to this entire platform for free. All the workouts the nutrition information and support totally free again. Just text good news to thirty thirty thirty. One thing I've mentioned before is how as the pandemic goes on and I recognize my utter opposition to watching any corona virus related movies or TV shows that will inevitably the produced in the coming years. Because you know living through it is enough. I start to understand why the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic. Maybe hasn't been mentioned or recorded as much in history as I would expect for something that had such a large impact on the world at the time like many traumatic events the people who lived through it didn't want to recount it and continuing on that thread. I've been really interested in the science of memory and the psychological fallout. That will be seen in the coming months and years. According to Steve Ramirez a neuroscientist at Boston University our brains evolved to remember exceptionally good and exceptionally bad memories so that we could either replicate the behavior that led to something rewarding or avoid the behavior or location that lead to something bad like a particular spot where you encounter predatory animal but prolonged experiences like this pandemic can blend together quoting discover magazine according to a two thousand sixteen nature study distinct memories close together in time tend to recruit similar overlapping brain cells to encode them whereas memories that are separated by a longer. Tim Portal Gulf involves separate sets of cells and infusing. Those memories with emotion can intensify the extent to which the brain uses that shared neural ensemble. This is speculation but I think our brains are going to hyper chunk. The pandemic into one big episode says Ramirez intuitively. That's the it's felt to me so far and quote because emotional memories all blended together may be intensified. Our brains might try to tamp down the intensity of those emotions when we recall them. And while that's good for our mental health it can actually make memories less accurate quote every time we recall something says. Ramirez it makes that memory susceptible to modification almost like pressing save as a Microsoft word document their ways of mentally walking down memory lane to reframe that memory in a way that isn't stressful or makes us feel like we have control over it says. Ramirez and quotes additionally when we learn new information related to a memory. We can supplant our memories with that new information and for an ongoing event like this pandemic with constant new information coming out and being a constant topic of our conversations. It's likely that will be missed. Remembering at some of the ways we truly thought were experienced earlier. Parts of the pandemic quoting again. Those faulty details might be as simple as dramatizing. Something Wall telling the story says Darren strange a psychologist at the John. Jay College of criminal justice like exaggerating the number of sirens. You've heard lately. Sometimes those errors might be a consequence of taking on other people's details if you're in New York and you're talking with friends who live closer to a hospital. They might be telling you about the trailers parked outside for the overflow for morgues says strange and two weeks later. You're telling people that you've seen that because you imagined it so vividly in your mind and quotes these faulty memories can work to confirm our perceptions of things like matching to our particular political stances and even more commonly during non traumatic events can be used to confirm our own self image like an study from Yale and the University of Zurich that found that people tend to remember their actions as more generous than they really were but strange and Ramirez point out as discomfiting as it may be to think about the unreliability of our memories. This type of reorganising of our memory is crucial to our survival. Otherwise we would be overloaded by separately stored memories and realistic emotional replays. The errors created by our memories are helping keep us from reliving traumatic moments in full detail over and over again. If you do want to remember this time with a bit more accuracy you can. Of course try things like journaling taking photos or recording video logs. And if you do do any of those and you want to share them you could submit your creations to the frazier history. Museum in Louisville's Corona virus capsule. They're collecting photos artwork videos class projects and written materials in order to document and preserve how people are seeing feeling and coping with this pandemic. You can submit pieces online although they might not necessarily be included. Submissions are viewable in a virtual exhibit on their website. Now and will one day be curated into a physical exhibit linked to that is in the show notes fossils discovered in the Maga more quarry in Colorado show evidence of scavenging and possibly cannibalism among Allah sources in the late Jurassic period. According to a new paper published yesterday a team of paleontologists studied over two thousand three hundred bones in the quarry and found that twenty nine percent of them had bite marks from theropods a group of very large coniferous dinosaurs in measuring the bite marks. The team was able to conclude that the allosaurus Serta Sorus and in additional unidentified carnivore feeding on carcasses left at the site quoting the corey is believed to preserve specimens from an ancient wetlands ecosystem where carcasses were unlikely to disappear into the mud quickly. This gave huge predators to scavenge meat from bone. The team found many of the bite marks on her before bones were located on places where the meat had high nutritional value which makes sense for huge predators however those found on theropod bones were located on regions that provided less nutritional value suggesting the. Mammoth beasts weren't trying to hunt each other but taking advantage of remains even more intriguing. The team believes that they have discovered evidence of Allosaurus Bite. Marks on allosaurus bones. That would make it a Jurassic Cannibal and the first evidence of cannibalism in Allosaurus and quote. While it's possible the bite marks could be left behind from battling with each other like modern day. Crocodiles do the paleontologist point out the quote. Some of the bite marks are in locations that could only reasonably be reached. After death or dismemberment and quote so just in case you've been starting to think dinosaurs weren't quite metal enough here you go and finally today a question. I had never even thought to ask until I saw it posed online. Why are oranges sold in Red Mesh bags like so many things in life? The answer is not in practicality but rather in marketing quoting mental floss the Color Orange pops when compared with the color red more so than it does with yellow green or blue. That means when you see a bunch of oranges behind a red net pattern. Your brain assumes they're more orange and therefore fresher and higher quality than it would if you saw them on their own. That's the same reason. Red Is chosen when making bags for fruits grapefruits. Tangerines which are also orange in color for lemon packaging. Green is more commonly chosen to make the Yellow Rind standouts if limbs were sold in the same red bags as other citrus. The Red and yellow hues together would actually make the fruits appear orange. Lemons can also come in Yellow Mesh bags and the bags for limes are usually green to match their color and quotes. The science of marketing behind. Grocery stores is always really interesting to me. For example grocery stores are typically laid out with produce. Fresh Air Matic and appealing right at the entrance dairy products. The most common item for people to have on their shopping list are usually at the back of a store ensuring that shoppers have to walk through the entire store to get their hopefully being tempted by end cap shelves and remembering additional items. They need along the way and a tip for you. The most expensive items are usually placed at I level. So if you want to save money look down and some stores move food. That's going to expire sooner to the front of the shelf. You'll have to weigh your ethics on food. Waste WITH THIS HACK. But if it's really important to you to get a loaf of bread that lasts a few days longer you can dig to the back of the shelf and sometimes find a newer loaf than the ones displayed in the front. Just a few grocery hacks for you there so on yesterday's show I was talking about how I was about the SPACEX launch. That was going to be happening. I did say there was a chance it might get canceled. And of course it did right after I posted the show talking about it. I turned on NASA's livestream and with seventeen minutes before takeoff the astronauts all strapped in and everything. They called it off Due to weather but it is rescheduled for this Saturday at three twenty two. Pm Eastern. And if that doesn't work they're going to try for Sunday at three o'clock sharp so one day. Eventually we will see this rocket. Take off the road for now. That is all for today objects and buried. I hope you have a good rest of your day. I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Disarm America, Defund Police? 07.08.2020
"Radio Gag. Against Gun show. Good evening everybody and welcome to Radio Gag. The weekly gays against Gun show radio GAGS. Your weekly update on how to end the American gun violence epidemic. I'm sorry Kirsty and tonight I will speak to a nine one one dispatcher about the defunding police movement. We will cover in the news, the recent unbelievable rise in done violence to our country but I. In memoriam. Black Twenty seven years old. A black transgender woman was found dead in her home after a fatal shooting in Florida making her the twenty first known transgender person to be murdered twenty twenty. Pre Black worked in retail in her social media page was filled with photos for big smile and personable poses. Sadly pre black has been repeatedly dead named in the media reporting around her death. The murder breed black comes only days after DRE McCarty. Shakey Peters were found dead, Louisiana and mercy. Mac was shot to death in. Dallas Texas all Black Trans. Women and they have been dead named MIS gendered by local media and police. Three black we remember you. In the news this weekend there was an uprising and gun violence in New York Chicago and Atlanta. In the last week, the number of people shot in New York City was up roughly two hundred six percent compared to last year, according to the New York, City Police Department. The reported increase in violence marked the fifth straight week in which more people were shot this year than the year before. Monday the New York City Police. Department announced a significant increase in the number of people shot over the last week, compared to the same time period. According to police on July fifth alone forty eight people were shot. A five hundred eighty six percent increase over July fifth last year. Other major cities around the country such Chicago Milwaukee. Philadelphia Los Angeles are also reporting increases in gun, violence and crime analysts say there are multiple reasons why. The first thing is it's summertime. We traditionally see about a thirty percent increase in shootings in June, July and August sit Christopher. A criminal analyst and professor at John Jay, College of Criminal Justice. The second thing is the covert nineteen shutdown. The shutdown is ending and we. We're seeing more people out on the street. And the third thing is, there's a lot of anti police protesting and rhetoric. These shootings aren't random. They are targeted Herman said you should think of it in the context of people want to settle scores, and now that everyone is reopening. These shooters and these targets interact with one another. Herman also indicated the increase in shooting. Says followed an uptick in gun sales this year. FBI background checks between February June up about thirty six percent compared to last year. Despite an additional twelve hundred officers on the streets and please from community groups. Chicago's July Fourth Holiday marked the third straight weekend. Child has fallen victim to gun violence in the city. From Thursday at six. PM There's Sunday night. Eighty seven people were shot in Chicago seventeen of the victims have died including a seven-year-old Natalie Wallace who was fatally shot in Austin Saturday night. At a press conference, Monday, morning Chicago Police Superintendent David Brown expressed condolences to the families of the shooting victims and called for changes to stop the violence. We must keep violent offenders in jail longer superintendent David. Brown said we should revamp the electronic monitoring program. It is clearly not working. We will not stop until the violence ends. At a press conference Monday afternoon. Mayor Lori lightfoot reiterated Superintendent Brown call to lock up violent criminals. Thoughts and prayers are simply not enough at this point. Mayor Lightfoot said sorrow itself is not enough, and what it says is. We need to do better as the city this day this year and really every day. There's no reason we should be feeling and experiencing moments like this. The mayor was clearly frustrated and said there needs to be renewed focus on stopping the flow of illegal guns and pipeline from Indiana. Police took hundred and seventy three more guns off the streets weekend on top of hundreds more the past two weekends. There were forty seven different shooting incidents across Chicago mostly on the city's south and West sides. Lightfoot also said more has to be done. Provide an alternative to a life of crime. Life also addressed yet another tweet from president trump. Offering to help with the violence, she said if the president really wanted to help, he could support universal background checks and the Banning of salt rifles along with common sense gun control. Atlanta Georgia Governor Brian. Kemp on Monday declared a state of emergency and activated as many as one thousand national guard members Kemp. A Republican said the executive order follows weeks of dramatically increase, violent crime and property destruction in the city of Atlanta. The number of shootings and murders in the city was double this year, compared to two thousand nineteen for the four week period following Memorial Day according to police data during that time also saw violent clashes between law, enforcement and demonstrators during protests against police, brutality and racism. Shooting incidents went from forty six and twenty nineteen to ninety three this year between may thirty first and June twenty-seventh while the number of murders, spite from six to fourteen year over year for the same time period. Once again this time you're listening to radio GAG here on Wbai. It'll be talking to my best friend Angela. Who I would call an any it my emergencies at least for least over the last thirty years. She's been the one person I've talked to whenever I needed any help. Or I had a crisis, and since America's in a crisis, I wanted to talk to her because she's also a nine one one dispatcher, so I wanted to get her opinions and perspective on what defunding police means also looking into police brutality. And the systemic racism and bigotry that is being exposed in certain police forces for thirteen years I worked for the. For one of the local cities here. and. I talked about this before and I told you that. I feel like larger police. Departments are the ones that are having. A lot of Problems with the the defunding in people wanting to do that, and like I told you before like the city that I worked for. It's not a small city, but it's nothing like Chicago or Los. Angeles or New York by any means. and. I feel like people are so against the police being militarized in. Yes, I understand that, but also when you have these people, these officers are going into like even even this past week a weekend. We're like forty forty one people shot. In your city. The there was a ridiculous number people shot. In Chicago in in that wasn't done by the police it's. His truly. It's like a war zone sometimes in neighborhoods, and it's really sad, but officers have to be trained to deal with that. In sometimes that's. The only to do it when when there's a huge amount of people that they have to go into a neighborhood and you know the situation is is so violent and they need to deescalate it in like I told you before. I don't know what it's like. In other jurisdictions, I know in our jurisdiction, we did have officers that were trained in in a lot of different things that. Would not require them to use. What's need certain kinds of counseling your? Sure like we a lot of officers at were. The hostage negotiators, you have a lot of people that are trained for people that have mental health issues. Anything like that. You know they they would get sent out. They were the first people we had lists of the officers and what they were trained in so that when you had a situation a specific situation that came up. You would call officers if somebody was sexually assaulted. You know you had officers that would go for that and they would just the first line of people that would go out. After that you had people that you know we call for. Social Services would come in and deal with the the things, but you have to have. These officers are trained in again. I can only speak for the department that I worked for they are trained in a lot of different situations. We do have officers that were specialized in a lot of different things so that you know using weapons was not. The first thing that they do. I mean. I would like listeners to hear Your Voice of what needs to be protected if there is defunding going through. What were you afraid that money could come out of? If you've thought about it. There's there's a lot of. I, you know I've read a lot of posts. Online of people that say you know. Officers don't get enough training. They should be trained in this. This is there's a lot of training that goes for police officers, and it would be really. It would be a shame if if that was something that got cut they get trained in so many ways also like the majority of the police officers that I worked with. They all had some type of degree sometimes, too. You know I mean they're. They're not just. They're not just you know dumb, dumb guys, you know Derek. Yeah, jerks are dumb jock into gun. You know like a lot of people like to grow trae them. There there people that are very educated a lot of them have degrees in law enforcement, and in like different things such as psychology sociology. All kinds of things just things that always pertain to to law enforcement in helping the public so. e-e-e-e-no that to me that would be a shame. There's a lot of training that they do in the department as well for like crisis, intervention for mental health for you know dealing with domestic violence for dealing with. Sexual assaults and things of that nature. Even you know for for The difference in in people's Their they're necessaries, and there's just all kinds of training that they get so I want to understand when you're sitting people. Do you think? Think back that. Did you think the system was working? When you are sending the right people to the right call that you were just describing? Yes I. DID ANY NOTRE TRAFFIC TRAFFIC STOPS? I been on several ride alongs. Officers and I'm going to tell you. Traffic stops are some of the scariest. Situations out there. You have somebody you know. You're pulling somebody over, and you have no idea who that person is. You have no idea you know. Pick people. It's unfortunate, but sometimes people panic for dumb reasons you know. Somebody might get pulled over on a traffic. Stop because. Let's say their blinkers out, and all of a sudden person just so happens to. Have a warrant out because they didn't pay child support. And it's it's not uncommon for somebody like that to all the sudden freak out when the officer runs their information, and they take off, or they pull out their gun it. They have one in the car. They pull out a gun and all the sudden. You have an officer. That's pullover. Somebody for you know a blinker that was out. Who's now, you know? Pointing at them and it's taken off I. Mean I seen officers get dragged. From from just approaching vehicle, and they all the sudden are are hanging on by. The window of car. It's it's just it's very unpredictable. People are very unpredictable. And And I know that you know officers. Because they're police officers, and because they're trained to have to deal with these situations, the first instinct most definitely should be to just put. Are GonNA shoot somebody. But like I said. If you're faced with somebody who who's pointing a gun at you. Of course I mean that's the thing you alert to sing a gun. Okay so. What would it just even if it's something small? What would you think you know? It really needs to kind of be addressed as this. It's really hard when when you have. People that don't trust the police and then you know they they don't want to help them. one because they don't trust them into because a lot of times when people try to help the police, they they put themselves in danger in in their own communities. Sometimes you know, and and that's that's hard, also I. I seen A. Lack of respect that people have for the police is is incredible. I've seen. Any I've seen officers. Pull somebody over. For a traffic, stop I've seen them blow smoke from a cigarette in their face. I mean it's. It's just incredible, so it's frustrating for officers who try to approach people in a way. That you would think people want to be approached in. People are so. Fed Up with these bad cops that are causing all this problem for for good police officers. They're so fed up with that. They don't care. They don't give them a chance. They don't give good. Police officers a chance to try and help them and try to do things for the community. So I don't know what the answer is to that because it's GonNa, require that both sides work together and I know that the police department. You know that I worked for they tried to do that. They they reach out to the community I told you before that, because the city that I worked for isn't a huge city like Chicago or New York. They have a better opportunity to know their community and be able to. To do their job better because of that, I think it's really difficult for police officers to. Do the job that they should be doing when they don't have the time I. Know that that's that sounds bad, but you know when you have. An, you have like somewhere like Chicago where you have like a hundred something shootings in a weekend and also doesn't have the time to go out, and and you know be able to handle it. In no way that I consider with the appropriate, because there's just so many calls back to back to back, they have to respond to. They're just trying to get to them and so. It's just bad round I wanna how things are covered up It seems to be that we find out. There's bad cops in the situation and then we find out they have been. Headed on this path for a long time doing things similar or which which led up to a bad incident and I'm wondering. Can you address any situation That made you feel okay. This is this is not just bad behavior, but a pattern or a bad cop. As we say, there's always you know backups, and there's I mean I can tell you. I had an instance where we were on the radio and we had somebody running and. It was it was A. A foot pursuit, and when the dispatcher asked for the suspects description. The officer came across radio and said the usual. The usual, being a black male in his mid twenties, early twenties a with a white tank top. And jeans you know. It was it was awful to hear that your. You felt disrespect. You know it's. Like my like your job dress like wow, I can't believe that just came out of your mouth. Yeah, he got in a lot of trouble. So, so these tapes than reviewed, or or just had someone had to report him at one point or just give me that process. Of His name, but number. No, but but you know when when you're when you have something like that happen when you work police radio, it's. Your the main dispatcher and then you have like. Thirty forty other police officer, but radio in you know something like that happens especially when it's something like pursuit, it's GonNa. You know it's it's recorded. Our job as dispatchers is not only to give information, but also to record it by typing it into the computer, so it's permanent record. So it's just like when you see replayed on on a show like the May have. Yeah They're still a lot of the mentality in there. It's it's I hate to say, but there is still a lot of the. It's like a boys club you know, and and there is still a lot of discrimination within the Department A. That shouldn't be happening and. It needs to change. Needs to change. In in like I said unfortunately, I think it's going to get worse. I think it's it's it's GonNa just crash before it gets rebuilt. I WanNa thank you for sharing. Your experiences with us and the listeners I don't think it's. I don't think. Dispatchers are interviewed in the right circumstances I. think generally know about them because we're listening to a story breakdown and we're like okay. How do this person handle it, but we aren't seeing. That you're just concerned for the safety of. Your just as concerned for the safety of the people who you've sent out. and. Of course, the people in your in your. In your town and your neighborhood. I also WANNA say since sincere. I WanNa say that dispatchers are the first first responders I know you talked about De escalating situations I. I want people. Now that this factors go through a huge amount of training, especially to deal with trying to deescalate situations before police officers get there to try and make the same safer for them. Because we are the first people that people talk to when they have bad situations happen so I just would like for people to know that you know that that is also an element that happens before the. Get on scene. Knowing anyone listening to your voice now you could calm someone down It's the extreme circumstances where. you know where I'm sure you feel like you lose a little control. But. Absolutely I respect what you do immensely because. You can. Find another solution for this person's problem other than engaging with an armed. Officer of the law all right? Thanks again, Angela You always better so. whenever you talk to me and I appreciate everything that you've done with people who've called you for most of your adult life. You've been dealing with people at their worst so I take it as you're the voice. Explain what people actually need at that time I respect everything that you've done for them off until now. I respect everything you've done for the. Until now. Aren't inside, thank. You have fun on this show, so it's okay. I love you, too. My Right To find out more about working with us, please go to case against guns dot net or follow us a gaze against guns in y on facebook and Instagram or gag no guns on twitter. Also be sure to check out our website to learn more about our gag chapters located nationwide like an Orlando, la DC, Chicago San, Francisco and P., town. Another great way to get involved by becoming WBAI buddy. WBAI buddy is someone who keeps our unique volunteer. Run Radio show going by giving a small donation every month and really folks. Just a modest monthly contribution can really help. Keep us on air your Wbai and to bring you this live show every week. Just go to WBZ, DOT ORG or call five, one, six, six, two, three, six, two, and become a Wbai buddy and the name of radio gag once again I want to thank. My friend Angela for joining us in giving her perspective from her years as a nine one one dispatcher. And thank you for listening to our Scotian about defunding police. And disarming America so once again we leave with our fabulous political singing quartet singing out louise. With parody song that wraps up this episode perfectly. Thanks for listening have a good night's. Thank? God. A. Fan You. Your gone? J To. GO WE SAKE You! Take. On. Take. Off. OFF Believe in happy. Way. Why mass mass shooting. Oh. You. Are By. We are. Day Don.
7.27.21 Law enforcement reset, Frontline Doctors, and model trains
"The world and everything in it is made possible by listeners like us my name is kerry stadium. And i'm a retired home teacher. My husband pete. And i living in wilmer minnesota appreciate keeping up with the news by listening to world. I hope you enjoy today's program. Good morning the de-fund police movement is crawling to a halt in many places across the country. We'll talk about the lessons. Learned over the past year. If you're a hole stop digging okay. We try defunding last year. Things we're supposed to get better and they didn't so let's not do that anymore. Also we investigate. A group called america's frontline doctors. Who debunk the kobe shot. Plus we'll meet a handywoman who works on small projects really small tiny little bitty chop saw and also had a table saw just like a real big table saw but it is miniaturized. It's tuesday july twenty seventh. This is the world and everything in it from listener supported world radio. I'm mary record. And i'm paul butler time now for the news. Here's can't covington. President biden said monday that the us military's combat mission in iraq will end this year. Speaking at the white house biden said. Us troops in iraq will officially transitioned into a strictly support based role to be available to continue to train to assist to hell and to deal with isis as as drives. But we're not going to be here and accomplish. The president spoke after a white house meeting with iraqi prime minister. Mustafa alchemy not to be a team with confronts. The prime minister said he was in washington to discuss the strategic partnership between the two nations. About two thousand five hundred. Us troops remain in iraq. It's unclear at the pentagon will withdraw anymore troops next year. Another top military commander is sounding alarms about china's military build up speaking out of the event and the washington. Dc area monday air force. General john e heightened said the united states must keep pace with beijing's buildup. They're building a military a military capability that is enormous on there and they're building new capabilities new capabilities and nuclear new capabilities in space capable missiles hypersonic missiles new capabilities and cyber. And they're doing all of this to challenge. The united states the emphasized that the best way to avoid future military conflict is to maintain the strongest possible military as a deterrent. The pentagon this week announced that it is sending more than two dozen f. Twenty two stealth fighter jets to the western pacific region. To take part in a military exercise analysts say the deployment is much larger than usual and could be a show of force intended to send a message to china. Senators ran into new problems. Monday as they raced to. Seal a bipartisan infrastructure. Deal disputes have surfaced over. How much money should go to public transit. In water projects the two sides also disagree over spending and wage requirements for highways and other issues but white house press secretary. Jen psaki said last minute. Wrangling is nothing unusual in washington. The president worked the phones all weekend and is continuing to We're encouraged as we reach the final shoes that needs to be worked out and are confident about the path forward senate republicans are also irked by recent comments from house speaker nancy pelosi. She suggested that her chamber won't pass a bipartisan. Deal unless democrats also approve a separate and entirely partisan three and a half trillion dollar spending bill. Democrats would the senate reconciliation process to push that through without any republican votes. Senate gop leader mitch. Mcconnell blasted that plan on monday ideas we borrow and spend our way even to even more inflation and even higher cost for american families adding to political complications former president. Donald trump issued a statement. Monday disparaging senate republicans for dealing with democrats on infrastructure with new kovic nineteen cases spiraling upward once again. New york city will require its employees to either get vaccinated or receive regular tests municipal workers including teachers and police officers will have to get a corona virus vaccine by mid-september or get tested. Weekly for cova. Nineteen mayor bill de blasio told reporters. This is about our recovery. This is about what we need to do to bring back new york city. This is about keeping people safe. This is about bringing back jobs. You name it. The rules expected to affect about three hundred and forty thousand city employees. The september thirteenth deadline coincides with the start of public school. When the democratic mayor has said he expects all pupils to be in classrooms. Full-time main time in missouri. A public mask mandate is back in effect. This week for the city of saint louis and saint louis county. State's republican attorney general is suing over that mandate the city of savannah. Georgia also once again requires face coverings and public citing quote steep and alarming rise and new cove. ed nineteen infections. The tokyo olympics which were delayed by the pandemic and opened under oppressive heat are now facing another challenge a typhoon. The storm arriving today is expected to disrupt at least some parts of the games. Japanese hosts say it's nothing to panic about mazda. Kia is a spokesman for the tokyo olympics. Organizing committee he said in us terms. It's basically a moderate tropical storm into use scale. Eighty a three grade five zero. You shouldn't. you shouldn't be too much worried about that. But of course it is typhoon in japan. so you have to maintain your precautions but events. An archery rowing and sailing already adjusted their tuesday schedules to guy said. No other changes were expected. Kent covington and straight ahead cities rethink last year's decisions to scale back. Police departments loss learning lessons in patients. This is the world and everything in Are it's tuesday. The twenty seventh of july twenty twenty. One you're listening to world radio and we're so glad you are good morning. I'm mary record. And i'm paul butler first up on the world and everything in it budgets for law enforcement last year calls to defend. The police echoed throughout the country. And that's what many major cities did america's fifty largest cities reduced their twenty twenty one police budgets by about five percent with departments across the country. Losing eight hundred seventy million dollars in all but now. Many cities are reversing course and restoring money to law enforcement world's sarah schweinfurt reports now on what's behind the change this month. New york city democrats headed to the primary polls. They had to choose. The party's candidate for mayor. From a crowded field. Thirteen democrats are running for mayor compared to just two republicans. Eric adams eventually emerged victorious. He's african american. A former police officer in state senator. And the president of the brooklyn borough. He made public safety the centerfold of his campaign a dark place right now. A dark moment for new york and america whether it's the pandemic or dynasty in our streets. We don't feel safe. Doping six hundred students since joe and we have yet to see a country offensive plan to stop have been communities live in terror. His message struck a chord with black brown and moderate white voters in brooklyn. The bronx queens. Earning him fifty point four percent of the vote. now adams is on track to win. The mayor's office in november. Peter moskos is a professor at the john jay college of criminal justice in new york city. He says adams victory would have been unthinkable just eight years ago when mayor bill de blasio took office. I mean who would have imagined. Five years ago that a former cop would be elected mayor of new york city. It was really. It would been incomprehensible back then. It crime in the city had been declining for years and the public was critical of the nypd for. It's stop and frisk policy. That's when officers would stop question and search citizens for weapons based on little to no probable cause of but there was a much stronger anti policing an anti police sentiment in the city. Moscow says eric adams win marks shift in public opinion of police. They now think of them as necessary. If you're a hole. Stop digging okay. We tried defunding last year. Things we're supposed to get better and they didn't so let's not do that anymore last year. Major cities cut funding for their police departments. After george floyd died under the knee of a police officer in minneapolis but then crime rates across the country surged according to data analyzed by cnn. Sixty three of the sixty six largest police jurisdictions saw jump in at least one category of violent crime in twenty twenty many of those grim statistics have persisted into twenty twenty one politicians attribute. The crime uptick to either in nineteen disruptions or police budget cuts regardless many residents of large cities. Want more police on the streets and local politicians are paying attention. According to data analyzed by the wall street journal city and county leaders want budget increases for nine of the twenty largest law enforcement agencies. Those increases range from one percent to six percent. Roman is a policing expert with manhattan institute. I think the public interested to put a lot of pressure on on city leaders and rightfully. So you're recognizing that you police are have to be a central part of any likely successful public safety plant. There is just no way around that being centerpieces not new york city will restore a third of the three hundred million dollars at cut. The mayor of baltimore wants to increase law enforcement spending by twenty seven million dollars completely. Erasing the twenty. Two million dollar cuts made last year. La is proposing a fifty million dollar increase that after slashing one hundred fifty million dollars and minneapolis has already restored. Eighty percent of its eight million dollar. Police budget cuts criminologists say increasing. Police budgets acknowledges that quality policing will cost more money. Not less patrick. Oliver is a criminal justice professor at cedar ville university. I think it's hard to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of a law enforcement agency if you reduce their resources so i think people understand that you have to increase resources to increase the quality of policing oliver. Believe cities learned important lessons over the last year. They need to pay for law enforcement. But that doesn't have to come at the cost of funding additional social services that can help police other communities are gonna find additional money for social work and mental health professionals while increasing the budgets for police. Thaddeus johnson is a professor of criminal justice at georgia state university. He says budget increases will help replenish. Police ranks and they will help pay for the training and resources necessary to improve. Police practices all stars in. What do we want. We need to invest in their style disagree policies semester but some criminologists say more. Money won't fix everything. Rafael managua manhattan institute says more police on the streets usually drives down crime and can improve police performance. But this time things are different. Mangala says in many places officers are afraid to do their job and that isn't something money can buy back at least not right away. Police officers across the country. Certainly that. I've spoken to are feeling genuinely afraid of what might happen. Should they make a good faith mistake in the field and so we can refund them all we want. But if they don't feel confident and feel like they have the mandate to go out. There be proactive. Do the things that we know associated with crime control. It's not clear to me That that just simply putting money back into their budgets is going to be enough to get things under control reporting for world. I'm sarah weinsberg coming up next on the world and everything in it figuring out fact from fiction now many people have passionate viewpoints on vaccines especially when it comes to cova nineteen. Of course everyone has to make his or her own decision about whether to get one and reasonable people fall on both sides of that choice right and as we've reported on these issues over the last year many of you suggested we look into information posted online by a particular group. Now they call themselves. America's frontline doctors or af. Lds so world's editorial team ask our medical correspondent. Dr charles horton to research the group and its claims and he joins us now to tell us what he discovered. Dr horton good morning. Good morning well tell us. Who is behind. America's frontline doctors. What can you tell us about the organization. And its founders. So america's frontline doctors. I showed up last july and it did seem more political than medical. It was maybe theoretically there to promote this idea that hydroxy clarkin was a cure for covert. But then things kept coming back to politics if you go to internet archive their websites original version from last july. Talks about how If americans continue to let so-called experts in media personalities make their decisions than the great american experiment of a constitutional republic with representative. Democracy will cease Which is of course a political statement not not a medical one. that's its roots. It was a political group at Had strong opinions about things like mosques and lockdowns But then focused on this argument about hydroxy clerk one instead of on. The economic fallout from anti cova measures. The group's founder was a lady named simone gold. She she was back in the headlines briefly after january sixth She and the afl ds communication director. John strummed were with the rioters illegally. Inside the capitol building They've been arrested and indicted for this so again. We're looking at someone who's a very political figure all right well. Let's talk now about the group's particular claims they've questioned whether cohen nineteen is really all that dangerous given that of commensurate number of people die annually from other diseases like heart disease around six hundred thousand deaths a year. Dr horton would it be found in that realm. I think the the argument for from showing that couvert isn't a threat underscores why we should take it very seriously. If we add to. These leading scourges an american life heart disease cancer something else that is able to kill thousands and thousands of people. Then that doesn't say that we should take it less seriously but rather that we should take it all the more seriously cova nineteen has killed over six hundred thousand people in america. That number speaks for and afl dias does argue that no those numbers iran because of things like last marches. Hhs decision that we should report. Covert on death certificates even if we didn't have a positive test but how clinical picture very suggestive cova. Well keep in mind. That was when it was almost impossible to get a task tests. Were extremely scarce and we were trying to get the least bound data that we could about how this was proceeding. This is also a great example of where the group tips. That's hand with its goal. Being to play down the whole thing it's sites very reassuring statistics about overall survivability counting all comers you know counting your healthy twenty year old marathon runner and so forth and and and in its writing really really tries not to speak very much about what it means if you aren't as healthy if you aren't as young that's that is in fact. A lot of those six hundred thousand deaths came from now right now moving on Regarding the cove nineteen taxing. The group refers to those as experimental vaccines. And i'm wondering if that's correct and also if you could address the point that these aren't vaccines at all their their shots like flu shots. No and this is where a fell. Ds goes from just airing opinions. They don't like masks. They think the economy should have stayed more open to statements. That are just out and out wrong. The vaccines are not experimental. They're sold under an emergency use authorization or e you a which allows them to be sold without the full. Fda approval one. Are they unvarnished. Facts about the safety and the effectiveness of the vaccines is particularly with regard to the new delta variant. There's great news here. We had all held our breath about how they do against delta variant but they ended up doing very well where it really counts the most which is in preventing severe illness and hospitalization from israel showed that pfizer's vaccine was ninety one percent effective against severe illness and eighty eight percent effective against hospitalization. It wasn't as effective against simply. Getting sick was thirty nine percent effective there. But we're talking about taking cove exposure. That might have sent someone to the hospital or might've even been fatal and instead making it a really lousy week in bed. Okay final question here dr. We have seen some instances of heart inflammation with the vaccines. What we know about that. We know that it has been very rare first of all this. On the order of one per one hundred thousand young men who were the highest risk group for it and it is thankfully. Almost always transient. It does seem to with the vaccine's where it appears that all so folks that are feeling very concerned about that question could always choose johnson and johnson instead. That's not an vaccine. Dr charles horton is world's medical correspondent. He lives and works and raises his family in pennsylvania. Dr horton always a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks so much. Most fishermen have story to tell about the one that got away. But now some fish and arkansas have a story like it. They vary merely enjoy the feast of a lifetime when a tractor trailer veered off the road and overturned in the lake. The driver escaped without serious injury. The trucks payload twenty thousand pounds of dried rama noodles. Regrettably for the fish. The noodles didn't spill out of the cargo. Hold few wise crackers on online speculated about the value of the cargo. Here's one so what they lost thirty dollars worth of rahman hey cheaper not. It's one of my faves shrimp flavor. It's the world and everything in it. Today is tuesday. July twenty seventh. Thank you for turning the world radio to help start your day. Good morning. i'm mary record. And i'm paul butler coming next on the world and everything in it. Another in our ongoing series. What do people do all day today. We meet a modular now if you're thinking modeling as in fashion. That's not quite it. This is about scenery design in particular scenery for model trains. Think tiny details right down to whether tracks and barnacles on train trestle bringing railroads. Downsize is the work not only of carpenters and electricians but of artists two good ones. Here's world senior correspondent. Kim henderson with the story. The beach brings tourists to gulfport mississippi by the boatload but when i've had enough fun in the sun and increasing number of them visit the mississippi coast model railroad museum. We got one today. Miss wendy. She's making this wendy's or wendy. Pilot has a room where she makes scenery that goes behind beneath an around model trains and brings to lock feel free to pull a chair up to the desk. People sit they love to sit and watch pike. it doesn't really fit. The model train enthusiasts. Mold she's female. Never set up an inch of track in her garage but she's always like miniatures doll. Houses model car kits puzzles. I always got a kick out of seeing something that looked real but was really tiny. I've just always loved little things. When pike brought her grandchildren to the museum. Six years ago she saw some exhibits. She wanted to get her hands on now. She has her own key and keeps a blow dryer and paintbrush in tow. I used the blow dryer to speed up the process. So i don't have to wait so long for the paint to dry and i'm just taking the shine off of this and Corrugated metal and i will rust it up and Trim out this building with it to give it an old dirty rusty. Look just one. Small part of what will be an authentic as possible fishing village. Seen some things are kits and others are not Here's a building. I just made out of scrap material so The paper building over there. I designed on my computer. It's a prototype. Maka but pie isn't just a model maker. She's a magic maker. The kind that has kids shaking with excitement. Most visitors have no idea of the work that goes into what they come to you and over. Consider the grass in modern lingo. It's a base layer of vegetation and glue real dirt down. And when that's completely dry. Then i'll take him put patches of glue where i want the static graphs and i use An electric static applicator to make the grass stand up. And that's why Feel so real. Get sage green. Martha stewart craft chest may seem a little out of place here but the drawers are perfect carefully. Figured to contain everything from bottle rocket sticks to fabric scraps. That's right making things. Miniature and realistic is an art. How do you craft chain link fencing at h. o. Scales when a locomotive is four inches long from bridal veil tool. Of course. I have an actual little lumber yard of scale lumber. I have from walls of siding all the way down to single one. By to scale lumber boards she also has scale rulers to do micro math and some handy devices for cutting. Here's the tiny little bitty chop saw. I know isn't that hysterical and also had a table saw that has the tilt blade and everything just like a real big table saw but it is miniaturized. These tools create masterpieces like tiny boat building shop. And we even have blueprints for boats on the workstations there sawdust on the floor and every book was painted loaded on that shelf. Yes all the little cans of paint everything On the shelves and there i That's all hand done i. It has a background in drafting and blueprints. Youtube is where she learned her modeling skills. She set her sights on achieving the rank of master modular which evolved several steps of demonstrated proficiency. Use the colleagues like michael. Hesser thinks she's already there. He says she is but she is by far and everyone who sees her or thinks she's a master modeling says she'll be satisfied with her work matches that of a recent donation to the museum. It's an over the top room sized display. That's insured for half a million dollars but it's the vintage scenery details. Hi realism done by professional models and artists that interest pocket. Let's see the rock faces the landscaping greenery. I it's been a while since of been over here stuck could maybe fit in for piji. Modeling is relaxing therapeutic but unlike many who share her hobby. She's not tucked away down in a basement. The best part is doing her thing in front of museum crowds. Everyone who comes through is coming on vacation or for fun. So they're always uplifted in a good mood and so it's a very positive happy environment Which i think is good and healthy for every had a great day. Thank you thank you. Model railroad reporting a world on cam henderson gulfport mississippi the strikes the nats and today's tuesday july twenty seven. Good morning this is the world and everything in it from listener supported world radio. I'm paul butler. Mary rights world commentator williams now on the virtue of patients the right kind i have eminem. Whoa her one of my four year olds recently asked while i was in the middle of zoom call. He pulled on my sleeve for emphasis. I covered my mouth so that it looked like i was coughing. Made sure i was muted and told him in a nice mom. Mary poppins voice that i would get it in just a few minutes after i was done with my call but the nice mom mary poppins voice didn't work. He started to act like a fool to the side of the camera feigned. A cough once again broke out the batman. Dark knight voice. O in a minute by the time i signed off the video call my other. Two boys had put in there. Wilbert request a head to the kitchen. Get out the tub of yogurt. The mini eminem's three bowls and three spoons. But not that spoon. That spoon i tell everyone to get out of the kitchen. It takes great concentration to concoc- such culinary masterpieces. You know as i start in on the second bowl and inpatient cry comes from the living room. Mom i want imminent walberg. I know i'm working on it. I say one quarter poppins. Three-quarters dark knight on super stressful days. I might launched into a diatribe about the fact that while they are enjoying their tv show embarking requests from the living room. I'm laying down my very life to serve them. I'm not saying these are my finest parenting moments. i'm just telling it like it is sinful. Kids meet simple mom. I was reminded of this a few days later as i stood watching sonic employee. Prepare five drinks for my family. I had ordered ahead on the app. Just as i was walking into the fast food restaurant but for some reason i thought our drinks should already be waiting for me on the counter. I had hit the apps asap button after all that then i was reminded. It takes time together five cups. Fill them with ice and put a different drink in each making sure. It doesn't overflow then to put limits on each cup wrangle the appropriate size straws and find a drink carrier and this poor employees had to do all that while dealing with other customers orders as well. God met me right there. You know that thing. You've been praying about whitney. Your eminem wilder that thing you hit asap on. It's a good prayer. That aligns with my heart for you. But i want you to think about all of the pieces that have to come together for that prayer to come to fruition. Take a look around and you might even see my hand at work piecing it all together have some patients dear daughter. I'm working on it. I'm whitney williams tomorrow. Voting laws will talk to georgia governor. Brian kemp about the effort. In washington to control the way states hold elections plus protests in south. Africa will bring you a special world to a report that more tomorrow. I'm paul butler. And i'm mary record the world and everything in it comes to you for world radio. World's mission is biblically objective. Journalism that informs educates and inspires when god saw that the people of none of a turn from their evil ways. He relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them and he did not do it. Go now in grayson peace.
Relationship Between Police and Media Grows Increasingly Tense 2020-06-18
"The. As, Bauer, protests continues throughout the country. More and more states are passing laws to criminalize fossil fuel protests to huge problem. We needed nip this in the body. If we're really committed to on open and robust democratic sports I'm Tanzania. Vega and today on the takeaway for Thursday. June eighteenth. Some states have been passing laws in the midst of the pandemic. Also how covert! Has Affected public summer camps leaving families who rely on them without a way out. It's playing out now. You've summer learning loss, and now we have covert it learning loss, and you have the those resources were able to find solutions, and those without we round out the show with the conversation about the. Of June eighteenth with the ninety three year old activists in Texas who has fought to make it a national holiday. I think we've made stride. and. We see with all this so much more that needs to be. But I how the relationship between the president polices evolving right now. As the uprising for racial justice continues across the country. Journalists on the front lines are increasingly the targets of direct and hostile confrontations with law enforcement. Central! Time here. Are you okay. Getting Kate Katie. Are you okay? We got suck myself and the photographer got stuck in a corner at a scale brick wall and run into random building where I'm now taking shelter I'm sorry. Okay, do you? Why! Why am I under arrest? Being hit with tear gas and rubber bullets is part of the job for journalists covering conflict, many of these incidents are drawing concerns from advocates about freedom of the press, and about the strained relationships between media and the police, according to the freedom of the Press Foundation and the committee to Protect Journalists from earlier this month over eighty percent of assaults on. Came police officers at recent demonstrations. Today we're exploring how the relationship between police departments and the media got to this point. Joining me now is Simone Waksal bow national law enforcement reporter for the Marshall Project Simone Welcome back to the show. Things are having me again also with us. Is Jim Mulvaney adjunct professor in the law? Police, Science Department at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and the former deputy managing editor at the new. York Daily News One of new. York City's longest running tabloids. Jim Thanks for joining us. For Having Me Jim when you hear the interactions, we described at the top of the show. What's your assessment about the tensions that are now existing between police and the press? Well, we're a very difficult time This is much more like combat situations than it is like the old days of covering peaceful marches the relationship between police and the press chance if you look back in the sixties. everybody was trying blind eyes to some of the DALLIANCES. The Kennedy Administration all the way through the Giuliani administration reporters were taught to go along to get along. things have changed, and the press is not willing to do that anymore. And Gibb. You started out as a reporter in the late nineteen seventies. You've covered big investigations. Including the son of Sam murders in New York City when you were doing that type of work. What did how did you build relationships with police officers? Generally went to the police. Officers involved rather than their bosses or a public relations spokesman detectives like all of us are very proud of their work, and they like to discuss it, and I would go out of my way to meet them. Usually two three o'clock in the morning to find out what had happened that day, sometimes significant, sometimes not and just the fact that showed interest. Led them to be more open with me. Simone you currently work with a lot of stories that directly involved police, officers, and others. You have deep sources in the community. How do you see that? What's the relationship for you? As a journalist? Right now with the police, the ECHO AT GEM said really hasn't changed. I think a good deep source reporter. You don't need to rely on the public affairs of a police department. I actually think that's lazy. Reporting reporters who don't cover the subject I spent a Lotta, my time to speak to police, chiefs, former police chiefs, a lot of union officials, and the whole point of that is a we need talk to people directly involved in a situation, a public affairs job. Job of a police department is to spin the news their jobs to help a reporter. Get information the Marshall Project we approach the police feet which I've been at the Marshall Project since we launched in two thousand, fourteen, more almost like academic. Let's look at the data. Let's get reports. Let we have time to file public records or question. Foia I also used to work at the daily. News shot out to the Daily News and when your daily reporter, you may not have the time to wait two or three months for records to come back to a foyer, public records requests, but luckily for me at the Marshall Project I, do so. I built my stories not. Not Needing to rely on comment from a police department on record 'cause you'll never get your work done that way. And you are able to kind of what Jim was saying like. You also have relationships with police themselves where you can kind of have conversations with them and and hear what they're thinking, have that has those relationships change? Simone given the current state of affairs that we just described at the top of the show. There's more tension now again. If you're a deep source reporter, you're talking to these folks every day anyway and I say shot out. Brave soul to the reporters on the front lines covering the protests and I'm really sorry. It's scary to see what. What has happened to them but I the different job from what I do I try to look at policing wise. It broke. It was broken systems in policing, and that's more an investigative beat, so I don't think God have to be out there on the front lines, and exposing myself to harm you. I have the luxury of sitting here, putting together months long projects with public records, request data and speaking to the people so I at this point in my career, I'm able to build a police. Be a lot different than what I was doing. A couple years ago at the New York Daily News when yes, you are out. There I covered Scotty Parkin the protests. The one percent protested through. Listeners remember that ten years ago now that was a different time to journalists were also assaulted back that this is not new for those of US covering leasing so Jim. How does this? What do journalists? In this scenario we've seen I mean arrest of Omar. Jimenez for example on television while he was filing report for CNN when it comes to, we heard audio from a journalist who was directly attacked with rubber bullets, and who who the officer saw that she was there with the crew. So, what is what journalists? What? What recourse journalists have at this point the same request that they've always had? They just need to get along with the situation. I mean the difference between what we're talking about. Here is Sony's covering the Police Department that reporters were talking about covering live story and. In the life story is very fluid, very violent and temperatures are high, and everybody needs to understand that sometimes. You need to take a step back if you're not a photographer, if you're not don't need. For Radio. You don't need to get your nose right. In the middle of things it is very disrespectful for police to be abusing reporters. Their job is not to critique the beliefs. Their job is to cover the story. Then people are well behaved. They should have no fear of reporters Simone I want. To Jim's point there, there's the one thing is covering protests in running into law enforcement there on the ground. There's another thing which is covering police departments and just covering breaking news for a lot of our listeners. That's a fire or a protest or something that just started happening and in order to do that at least in New York. City reporters have to go through the New York City Police Department, to get a press pass I mean does that make sense to have? Journalists rely on the police department in order to get access to events that the police are essentially covering. So as Marshall Project reporter very good point I can't get NYPD issued police on press. Pass to get that you have to get on. At least you have to submit three clip so three stories or a photographer three pictures at shows at the last couple of months I covered three breaking news events therefore i. need this press pass. What is the prospects? Get you access to more or less on the frontlines of a protest or parade or something like that I can get into the building. Building now with Marshall Project Business Card. Sometimes we get a hard time going to a local. I'm a national reporters I'm not always needing to go to elegant new. York City Court, but it's problematic, but big cities do need a way to regulate like who are the working day to day Journalists York City is a huge huge media market and I know from spending six years on the the new. York Daily News. You are flooded with freelances. Your flooded with people who aren't journalists at all. All you just WANNA. Maybe sell a video people almost like Paparazzi for crime. Yes, that's the thing and I think those people aren't trained like we are the day to day reporters who are out there who have cultivated the relationship with law enforcement. Would it be nice to have that process? Maybe go through the mayor's office or another office. Yes, but I can tell you when I was at the Daily News. You always had to go upstairs to the top police headquarters and apply for that. That press Jim when you, when you see what's happening on the ground here I'm wondering. Some of that has got to trickle down to folks. Who are you know? The beat cops who were handling some of these protests and I'm wondering if behind the scenes and I I'd I'd love to hear from Simone you as well just in terms of behind the scenes. What are police officers really saying about if they're saying anything about what they're seeing right now in terms of these increased. Hostile interactions with press. Feeling quite disrespected. You as their job is to fight crime and maintain order, and they're being faced with a situation of being picked on for things that happened for hundreds of years, and beyond their control, and a feeling a little bit powerless, and when one feels powerless, there is a natural reaction to lash out somebody do. That, point I mean they understand that the protesters are protesting one thing, but the the the the press has a constitutional right to be at these protests. What I'm saying is you asked? What an average COPSON AVERAGE COP! Just like a reporter on the beat is not necessarily thinking long term thinking immediate so people yelling at you people screaming at you. People throwing stuff at you and you're going to be frightened, angry and I. think that's how these things break down. It's not a good thing. They should be trained better than to let little shouting. Get under their skin, Simone, what? What about you are law enforcement that you talked to even concerned about this at all, or do they just consider it? Part of the evolution of what's happening in this country whether it's right or not, so it's interesting that I speak to mainly police leader because I'd approach the beat more about replace reform so it a different response than like the average cop. Cop on the street so before we had cries defunding police, a reimagining police I the first few weeks, or you days of George Floyd incident. I mean, no police chief thought what happened Jordan are floyd was was okay i. mean that was consensus then? The defunding movement started in the first few days. People are saying that's BS. That would never happen, but now. Now you have this Shit Stat City city councilor, actually voting start taking away funding some police departments defunding. It's reimagining that is the police term Buzzword for those who are okay with like. Let's rethink police the word they like to use. Let's reimagined police so even for the fact that they're at the point of use the word reimagining police and let's rethink this. Is a big step from I would say six weeks ago before policing in the national spotlight again Jim we've got about a minute left in this segment. What do you think can be done to improve the relationship between journalists and police departments I? Do think that police reporters need to be spending more time with police and having frank discussions when it's almost like a dress. Dress rehearsal. If you're in the middle of the stuff, people are not always gone to behave well. At the Daily News, we had a special program to take reporters to shooting ranges with cops and show them. How quickly things happen when things go bad, it was a real eye opener for both the police and reporters understand how difficult both jobs were. Jim, Mulvaney as an adjunct professor at John Jay College of criminal justice and Simone Wakil Bom. Is the national enforcement law enforcement reporter for the Marshall Project Simone Jim. Thanks, you both. Thank you, thank you. The power protests is on full display across the country in the movement against racial injustice. At the same time, a number of states have passed laws that could criminalize fossil fuel protests. Kentucky South Dakota and West. Virginia have joined a dozen states that already have similar legislation on the books, and at least five more states, including Mississippi are considering legislation that would criminalize environmental protests in the future. Future to understand what this could mean for our First Amendment Rights. I spoke with Alex Coffman senior climate reporter at Huffpost and Ron Quotas inskeep the John S., Stone Chair, at the University of Alabama, School of law, and the author of the disappearing First Amendment so I asked Ron what the First Amendment says about Americans rights to attend any protests including an environmental one under the first amendment. Freedom of speech a lot, but the amendment actually speaks to other kinds of expressive freedoms to including assembly and petition, and so if individuals for example with the Black Lives Movement, one gathering public as a group to express their views to speak their version of truth to power, and to petition your government whether local state or federal to amend policies to address those concerns. Concerns our constitution going back to seventeen. Ninety one option to bill rights secures that quite strongly, not absolutely, but quite strongly. So how exactly are some states criminalising environmental protests specifically so the bill when its modified state-by-state creates enhanced criminal penalties for trespass and damage to fossil fuel facilities, including pipelines the other thing these laws do is create vicarious or third party liability for. WHO direct advise encourage solicit 'cause, or inside of these words taken from the statutes, someone else to trespass or damage after trespassing, fossil fuel, company property, and the problem is if a speaker at environmental protests in any fossil fuel protest says. Let's stop this pipeline now or we must stop this pipeline. Exclamation point they in theory could be charged with directing causing inciting advising encouraging subsequent bad behavior by someone who trespasses and then damages company property, you essentially are requiring in theory protest organizers to indemnify fossil fuel companies for any damage that happens to be caused by someone who merely attended an event, and this would have a profound and deeply troubling chilling effect on environmental public protests it would essentially make protest organizers financially and criminally responsible for random bad axe by someone from the public who to attend a rally. Rally supposed Greta Thornburgh the Swedish. Activists came to south. Dakota had a an anti fossil fuels rally and said fossil fuels are immoral. We've gotTA. Stop. These pipeline projects is someone who attended that rally or a group of people who attended that rally at some point down the road indefinitely down the road were to entrust passer damage the pipeline, the pipeline owner could seek to impose civil liability on Greta and or the state of South Dakota could bring criminal charges against her, even though there's no proof whatsoever of any coordination conspiracy, aiding or abetting. Greta Thune Burgers. Burgers just engaged in environmental protests environmental speech. She has nothing whatsoever to do with any subsequent bad axe, but these laws seek to create a threat of legal liability on individuals or organizations that sponsor anti pipeline, any fossil fuels public protests that would obviously make it much more difficult and raise the stakes considerably and lead to self-censorship by people who are legitimately concerned about greenhouse gas and non renewable forms of energy. The idea is to create this sort of free-floating threat of legal liability, perhaps even without ever anticipating using that threat The chilling effect is the same in. In some ways, chilling effect is better if you don't actually pull the trigger in charge them because they won't know for certain whether the First Amendment claim is good until they're facing civil or criminal liability, which could be bankrupting to their organizations. It's it's really clever insidious in the way it's set up never on, I'm GonNa again. I'm not a constitutional scholar. Some just curious here whether or not states rights, and in this case states that are crafting this type of legislation, trump the constitution and the right to free speech I. Mean where does that line get drawn? Well under article, six of the constitution, something called the supremacy clause and judges, both federal and state take an oath the promises to place federal law, including the Constitution and bill of rights over and above state law so normally if a state law violated the First Amendment Right, but stated federal judges would have an obligation to enforce the federal riding particularly the First Amendment. The problem though is that we have a recent Fifth Circuit Case Hall, Doe v mckesson, in which the fifth circuit allowed A to go forward against the organizer of black. Black lives matter protesting baton rouge. A rock or brick was thrown at a policeman. He was injured. He didn't know who threw it. He actually sued the Hashtag as well as the local organizer of the protest, and the district. Court dismissed litigation, but the fifth circuit amazingly incorrectly in my view, permitted the policeman's lawsuit to proceed against the organizer of the protest, and this is a form of vicarious joined several liability. There's no evidence whatsoever that Mr mckesson in any way shape, or form, encouraged or facilitated directly the battery of the policeman. It should be a first amendment violation, but this circuit says it isn't the problem Alex. you've been covering this for quite some time now. When did you start to see the sort of trend of legalisation to criminalise fossil fuel protests, so it was really in the year after the Dakota access pipeline was completed soon after trump came into office. The Dakota access fight was a real firestorm in in late, twenty sixteen, and drew a lot of outrage from some in the industry who are frustrated by the resources and attention that were being. Being placed on those opposing that project and sure enough in the months that followed its completion. You saw the shopping round of a model bill from the American Legislative Exchange Council the Conservative policy shop that sought to up the penalty is for protesting against projects like this, and so in the wake of that you know throughout twenty eighteen, and then throughout twenty, one, thousand, nine, hundred, and again a major uptick since the pandemic began in March. You've seen these bills making their way through state legislatures. Let's talk about WHO's behind this. This? Legislation doesn't happen in a vacuum first of all. Let's talk about who the American Legislative Exchange Council is, and what their involvement in crafting. Some of this legislation has been so far so ALEC is a big policy shop that is known in some circles as dark money group. It does not always have to disclose of its donors, and its donors often include very large corporations. There are some companies that have distanced themselves from Alec over the years including Exxon, but overwhelmingly the fossil fuel industry has been a major donor and. And participant in what it does, it also operates many other spheres fighting against students on campuses who protest against controversy, all and often racist speakers you know fighting against lgbt rights and carrying out various other things that are considered to be part of the agenda of the the right wing of the Republican Party. But this has been a particular cause of that Organization for some time. They have been actively promoting this in coordination with members of the industry. So you have had you know trade associations that Exxon Sarah Thon. Chevron are a part of that are actively pushing this model bill that they put together, and you have individual companies that have been actively lobbying some of the lawmakers who are behind these bills. It's not always easy to tell from the lobbying disclosures that different states provide on which bills companies have lobbied, but there is evidence that lobbyists working on behalf of these companies have lobbied the lawmakers who have proposed championed this legislation, so basically in Ron sounds like these laws are being targeted to a specific via point and. Essentially in this case against people who are against fossil fuels. Is that legal, and this is something that we hear a lot from advocates of free speech doesn't the First Amendment cover. All points of view these laws do appear to be viewpoint base. They are I think designed to have a chilling effect on anti fossil fuel any hype line public protests. The problem I think is that on their face? Many of these laws target unlawful conduct where regulation of conduct implicate speech so long as a court finds that the primary purpose for enacting the law was unrelated to suppression to the point. Then it passes first. Amendment Muster and there's A. A fairly terrible case, if memory serves written by Chief Justice Warren called O'Brien Mr O'Brien his draft card, and the Congress had enhanced the penalties for draft cardboard during the anti-vietnam war protests, and the Supreme Court in an inactive of running willful blindness, said that Congress was simply concerned with the administrative efficiency of the selective service system, and was unconcerned completely with suppressing anti-vietnam-war viewpoints, so the problem is that while viewpoint based law is subject to strict scrutiny and usually. Usually will fail a lot of times. Federal Judges are willfully blind to the real motivation of law, and what these state governments are going to say is that these laws are designed to protect critical infrastructure in a time of global pandemic and therefore targeted protection is needed because these facilities require targeted and special protection that feels bogus to me, but if you were to ask the fifth circuit judges who held Mr, mckesson potentially legally responsible for the bad act of. Of someone who happened to be at the protest I fear what the answer would be. You're exactly right. These should be deemed viewpoint based, and they should be subject to strict scrutiny. I am not competent. That's how it would work out with two hundred very conservative judges conservative, not institutional way conservative in a kind of nakedly partisan or ideological way, the trump administration has been very clear in its opposition to the Obama era environmental changes that were put in place. Alex. Are you noticing that certain states where this new legislation is being pushed? Are Those states in line politically with where the president is, and does that theory hold true right now? Certainly I, mean It hasn't only been Republicans notably. The Democratic Governor of Kentucky approved one of the first laws of these to pass during the pandemic, although it was significantly watered down version of of what had been initially proposed, but these are. Are Overwhelmingly in red states now these are still early days. There have not been many prosecutions done under these laws as it stands, there is one case that is currently working its way through the courts in Texas where about half a dozen Greenpeace. Protestors who suspended themselves from a bridge over a very busy shipping canal down on the Texas coast, and temporarily halted the movement of refined petroleum. are being charged under this. And you're likely to see more. I mean we. We are expecting for this year to be one once. Construction can can reopen, and states are fully reopened for business like that is going to be. There's going to be a big push around completing a lot of pipeline projects that had been held up in the courts, or or held up because of Environmental Review and the administration has through executive order decided to rollback what the environmental reviews that are actually required to complete certain projects so as those things pushed forward. You can expect that there will be more protests and I would expect to. To see a lot more testing of these these charges in court it events of those protests. Alex to that point. I'm wondering the question is always you know. What is the the counter legal approach happening here? You know our environmental activists and people who are coming out to organize these protests. Are they preparing to counter this current legal argument that's being made I mean certainly the better funded and more litigious. Environmental groups are keeping an eye on this and are pushing back against it, but I I think it's worth noting that a lot of those resources so far have just been focused on. Trying to protect the existing environmental safeguards that we've had and that are actively being rolled back. So you know this has been a fight that has gone under examined and one that is is really ripe for some type of of conflict. Once somebody is charged, but at the moment I, think a lot of the groups that are actively suing the administration and are actively putting together legal strategies to defend environmental rules really focused on just trying to protect the scant environmental protections that already existed Ron. You mentioned. A black lives matter protests and the use of this idea of vicarious liability in that case. are well aware. Would none of us can ignore the fact that we are collectively in a moment of protest in the country, we are now in the third week of nonstop protests for racial justice and against police brutality. Do you see the use of vicarious liability? being extended to potentially suppress. Different protests for racial justice for black lives, matter for women are speaking out against. Discrimination like I did the list goes on and on. It's it terrifies me. In terms of its potential chilling effect, and to go back to something that Alex mentioned I would predict in terms of vicarious liability provisions. The causes encourages Iraq advises. I don't think we're. GonNa see a lot of charges brought on those facts because that would allow a protest organizer to bring that First Amendment Challenge. The utility of these laws really is the interim fact that could have so if a Greta Thune bird wants to give a speech in south, Dakota. She needs to think carefully about what she says. Can she say stop this pipeline now or does she need to make a more nuanced argument for fear? Fear that she or her organization might face criminal or civil liability. If someone later trespasses and damages construction equipment for a pipeline, there's also a kind of resonance with a number of state laws that prohibit using fraud or false pretenses to gain access to industrial farming facilities. These are so called gag laws, a number of states I think over a dozen have adopted them. They also prohibit non-consent to recreation of industrial farming practices, and you can see why if you show animals being treated really terribly tortured. That's going to create a public dialogue lead to state or federal regulation, prohibiting particularly egregious industrial farming practices rather than addressing animal cruelty number state. State legislatures have adopted laws to make it harder to gain access to these facilities to record these behaviors. That's part of these these fossil fuel loss to a number of the draft bills one in Alabama, for example prohibited using a drone to simply photograph, a pipeline existing or under construction, so part of this model legislation is aimed squarely at prohibiting newsgathering that would then help inform the dialogue that would move public policy on these questions, and so with ag gag environmental protests with the mckesson case. Yes, it seems to me that there's a concerted effort to sort of raise the stakes by threatening vicarious liability on protest. Organizers have been no. No way whatsoever directly conspired or or abetted trespass or damage to property. It's really crucial I. think that if we have a free speech court and Conservative members of the Supreme Court like John Roberts like to proclaim how absolute their commitment to the First Amendment is! They need to grant search in mckesson Vido case from the his circuit and make clear that decisions like Watts Brandenburg a case called Kleber hardware which also you can engage hyperbolic speech without being criminally or civilly punished that these cases these precedents preclude the imposition of ICARUS, liability and organizations like Greenpeace that organized a peaceful rally which is followed perhaps by individuals engaging in. Unlawful acts as acts of civil disobedience another allergy is to slap suits, and there are anti-slapp suit statutes in some states that's a strategic litigation against public participation. Ill like slap statues in the day create this kind of free flooding, potential liability which has the effect of stifling public discourse, and it has the purpose of stifling that public discourse I think the goal is to impede or delay a national consensus about moving toward renewable energy You know you think about the tobacco institute and the tobacco companies from the time of the surgeon general to the settlements in the late nineties early two thousands. There's a real strategic financial advantage to simply delaying social consensus about something. Something like you know the morality and desirability of non-renewable carbon fuels, and so if these protests are inhibited, and the consensus is delayed, you think about the green deal that's an opportunity to move natural gas and oil in the interim, and to you know, take financial advantage of these strategic investments. These companies made makes perfect sense. It's a very low cost investment in trying to preserve your ability to do business I feel like I'm sending a little bit like who framed. Roger, rabbit with Detroit and the trolleys streetcars in La, but it's the same sort of motive. I think for business. We want to keep doing businesses. We've always done it and these protesters are in the way. Ron Quotas INSKEEP is John Stone Chair at the University of Alabama School of and Alex Coffman is a senior climate reporter at huffpost. Thanks to you both for joining us. Thank you, thank you. In New York City where more than twenty thousand people have died from covid nineteen so far the city is facing major budget cuts in the closure of these programs feels especially acute mayor. Bill de Blasio released a budget proposal that would make two hundred and thirty million dollars worth of cuts to public summer programs, and in April the city canceled that Summer Youth Employment Program, which last year helped place, nearly seventy five thousand kids and young adults between the ages of fourteen to twenty four in jobs, and that could leave thousands of families in New York without the programs or child. Child care they need while the pandemic continues to talk about this. And how is playing out nationwide? I've got Erin Philip Dworkin the CEO of the National Summer Learning Association with me, and Reema Amine a reporter for Chuck beat to talk about how this is playing out in New York these programs that we're talking about I mean if you talk about summary, US employment alone, thousands of kids who participate are from low income families last year, eighty five percent of the kids who got jobs through this program reported incomes of about thirty one thousand dollars or less from their families so. These are these are children who are earning work experience, earning paychecks, and then bringing that money home, especially in a time when families are suffering from the economic fallout pop. You know possibly dealing with job losses. Many in the community had sort of look to this program and thought this will be extra income during the year, and with the prospect of it being cancelled that I think is worrying too many low income, families, and the end. If you have if you're more affluent family, you have access to private day camps, you know in terms of the day camp offerings for younger children you can afford to pay the fees that are associated with that, but but the divide tons when you're a family who who can't really afford that and would have relied on a subsidized program. Right and I'm curious Aaron. Whether or not what we're seeing here in New York particularly. The income divide that. Remo was just discussing is playing out nationally because on the one hand we have kids who who are going to lose some work. Who actually could have used that money? They're not just working. Because it's good experience, they're working to actually bring money into the household and on the other hand. You have kids who just won't have access to publicly funded recreational facilities. So, are you seeing that nationally? Absolutely, and it's so interesting. It's a microcosm for for the rest of the country to our organization been around for more than twenty five years and summer. Learning loss has always been a major equity issue. It's one of the largest examples of inequity in all of education is what happens over the summer months? This is not new people and educators and program providers have been tackling. The these divides gaps at grow over the summer months more dramatically than any. Any other time it's playing out now. You've summer learning loss, and now we have covid learning loss, and you have the those with resources were able to find solutions, and those without were really struggling and being impacted. I think what we do see across the country of different examples, and and the Kobe cases are different in different parts of the country as well, but those that are being successful in our opinion are those. Those that are most hyper, creative and hyper collaborative, and I whether if we just WANNA stand example of youth employment in the city of Charlotte instead of initially canceling their leader Don Hill, working for the mayor, went approached all the business job providers and said listen I know you're struggling, but don't cancel these jobs. Can we come up with another solution initially right off the bat? They were all agreeing to a fund A. A young people to get trained and Microsoft programs linked and learning programs until they had more time to figure out what they needed. And then could come up with project, but the young people be paid over the summer, and may agree to that, and also to extend those jobs past the summer into the hall. So of some their example of out of the box, a more collaborative examples that I think are solutions. Remain. You've been talking. We've been talking here about the loss of a lot of these public summer. Programme providers in New York City Mayor de Blasio here in New York has cited the budget shortfall. That's a forcing him in his opinion to make these decisions. What are you hearing from the the the providers here? According to how are they? Responding to Mayor de Blasios proposed cuts. Yes, so you know I think the most generous term here would be anxiety. I do want to note that. The mayor has announced that after after a lot of public pressure that they are going to find some funding sources for both S Y. EP the summer. Youth Employment Program as well as these day camps these subsidize day camps, so providers are basically in the situation now where they have a sense that there is going to be some funding coming in, but there's no sense of how much. That's going to be so you know in terms of the day camps those providers are having to tell their folks who work on these programs that hey come June thirtieth, which is the end of the fiscal year here that we might have to lay you off. We might have to furlough you or we might have to Newark's biggest after school provider in New York Edge. Edge recently told seventeen hundred employees that they're going to be moving to a two day work week. Starting June twenty nine th, so the issue there comes that you might have employees who decide hey for me and my family. It's better that I. quit this job and try to search for something else or maybe I. Can you know devote my energy elsewhere? Maybe find other work. Make tougher providers to plan for the summer because a they don't know how much money they're getting. If any at all and be, they might be losing the very workers who would help them make programs and program options for kids. You know when the funding comes in, so it's sort of this big question mark. Aaron one thing that often gets lost in the conversation when we talk about education in school for low income folks, is that a lot of people many low income families throughout the country rely on not only the the facility, but also the subsidized or free meal programs that continue often throughout the summer. Do you know if food scarcity is going to be a problem for some children and their families? If these summer programs are not available this summer? Yes No, absolutely without a fact, hunger and nutrition issues over the summer are are major areas of concern that a lot of folks are addressing groups like no kid hungry food. Research Action Council, but they say the roosters shows that only one in seventy youth that are eligible during the school year for free and reduced lunch. Some meals actually are in programs that can access them in the summer, and so it's already A. A problem and now you'll have less programs so there. I will to credit of the federal government. They are creating a lot of waivers and flexibility. Now you don't have to be in a program to access the meals or the pickup, and there's a lot of focus on this in as much flexibility as possible, but it's a huge concern because those programs typically are where a lot of young people get to three meals a day. Another thing that's come up in the conversation of parenting and Co Vid. World is the question of child care. We saw so many parents wealthy, not wealthy people who are just struggling to get through distance and online learning partly because their child care had been taken away, the schools also represented an opportunity for folks to have their kids somewhere else while they went to work, but many of the basic childcare that many parents were used to was also taken away. Reema summer programs provide that child care going to happen to low income families this summer. Who Don't have that? Yes! This is a really important point for providers and families. So like I just talked to him other yesterday she is raising to middle school sons, sixth grade and seventh grade on her own. She's a widow, and she was recently laid off from the city job, and so she was her. Her kids have been participating in an after school program provided by New York Edge and she was looking to the summer program away way for her sons to continue meeting meeting new kids. They're sort of new to the area. They live in Brooklyn that was going to. To be something that she was going to lean on while she searched for new work while she got things done during the day that she needed to her family, and now that sort of in limbo and I, I think you know providers I've talked to have said that they serve literally thousands of low income families and the one big concern now. Is that New, York? City is fully starting to go through these reopening phases where different businesses are reopening and as families who have been potentially out of work for months are going back out pursuing work. They're going to need some sort of child care that they at least you know. Not have to pay for at least part of the day, and not having access to these programs could could really hurt that. Aaron, I am loath to ask you a question that is going to add even more work to what parents particularly low income parents are going to deal with the summer, but I've got to ask. Are there any suggestions for parents who won't have access to summer programs for their kids this year I? How do I mean I'm thinking? I grew up in public housing. Those apartments are small there dense They're hot and I just can't imagine. Not having some outlet for that. So, what can parents do this summer? And there are a lot of resources for parents and a lot of groups are are trying to make those available for free. Unfortunately all the digital divide issues are still significant, but if if you have access to a computer, Naveh accessing the Internet. There are a lot of free curriculum out there, and I think our recommendations. Are you know I we have to take care of their health, and there's a lot of trauma going on, and you just do something that both will keep them physically active or on the nutrition side, and also social emotionally like checking with them. There's a lot of curriculum from Sanford. Harmony that's free and castle three and we have a lot of resources on our website summer learning. Learning DOT ORG to make sure they get ready for school. We can't use this summer to make up for everything. We've missed over the last few months. And by the way this is to be going on for the effects of this will be next summer as well, but every student has one area that they could improve on that. Maybe a high need area. Talk to your school. Talk to a teacher. Find out whether the reading is at math stem. Find something, and there's a ton of curriculum and free hands on Khan. Academy has great resources for students to act. And the last thing here like the moment where end is up, politically charged moment and students are not aware whether it's how to respond to the Cova tissues or the structural racism challenges. We're seeing their country out right now, and so and with the big election, so I would just say like find a way empower your student can get involved, and be you know you service and take a leadership role well there. You heard it Erin. Philip work in is the CEO of the National Summer Learning, association and Reema. Amine is a reporter for Chalk beat. Thanks to you both for joining us. Thanks so much. Tomorrow is June nineteenth and awareness of the holiday has reached an all time high following weeks of protests for racial justice in the United States June teens commemorates the day when enslaved people in Texas learned about their emancipation June nineteenth, eighteen, sixty five. That's a full two and a half years after President, Abraham Lincoln and the emancipation proclamation. Black Americans have long celebrated. June eighteenth and Oh. Texas recognized it as a state holiday in nineteen, eighty, followed by dozens of other states, it has yet to become a national holiday, and for years Opal Lee has been working to get June. Thirteenth recognized as a national holiday. The ninety three year old is a social impact leader in Fort Worth Texas and she joins me now. Opel, thank you for being with us on the takeaway. Thank you for having me. What is June? Teens mean to you Opel. It means so much in a hope can express it. It means. Freedom and I don't know if you can understand of people who subjugated so long that when they found out. They will free. They begin celebrating. And we'd been celebrating every sense. Opel the significance of June teens is deeply personal for you is. Tell me. What happened? To your family's home when you were twelve years old. We moved to fort, worth from Marshall Texas in Nineteen thirty seven parents. Worked hard. And were able to pay down on a house at the Kona any. And New York, Street Fort Worth. Called southside. My mom had fixed up so neat. But people to the. Little rocks. And on the Nineteenth Day of June the newspaper says. Five hundred up and the gap. and. Wilma Dad, who said he was at work? When he came, he had a gun. And the police told him if he burst kept the let that mob have. Well they sent us three of us. Me and my two brothers, two neighbors on terror lab. And they stayed. But eventually they had to leave because. The mob burned the place. The furniture. And they had. My parents never told us about it. Never talk to us about it. And they struggle some more and we bought another house on. The. I don't know. What to tell you. I didn't have. Any? What does the Word Atypical. Simply. New Is. A grew up. Things that needed to be done. Opel you you and talking about the work that you've done? Across the course of your lifetime among the many things that you've done, you've also led a campaign. To get June, teen recognized as a national, holiday. Tell me about what made you want to pursue that? Must, family is always. Celebrated June teams. And when I learned that General, Gordon Granger. And black troops landed in Galveston. And told people who inside t read what was called General. Order number three to the people saying that slaves free. He nailed that. To the door that order he nailed it to the door of reading chapel efforts, admittedly fiscal church, and the slaves came in for work and somebody read that to the they begin celebrate men, so we've been celebrate. Every sits now celebrations. Adjust not a festival for us? We have already in Fort Worth had. Reason. We've already had a breakfast prayer. That's not to be confused with the prayer breakfast. And we're about to have. Our Caravan because of the virus. We can't have a parade and we love a parade. We're going to leave downtown to Lancaster and all the way out to. Will Rogers Sartori. And that's a two and a half mile walk, and I'll be walking, and the cost will be behind me to symbolize. That slaves did know we will free for two where the HAT is. But components with June teeth. The educational components are the music. The empower knew all these things are part of June. Because who enslaves nut free. They were free they had. Twelve freedoms that they had. They gain. The billeted to name themselves to have children not taking away from them to buy land to educate. There were so many more things that the game. And still this day in time. We've not deigned those food and I keep thinking. We've made stride. And we say oh with all this so much more that needs to be. I see you as a unifier. Even advocate that we do June. Thiessen the nineteenth to the fourth of Jim La you know slaves. Were you on the fourth of July and we decided so more. We'd have so many more opportunities to give make people aware. There's a couple there. A couple of observations I love to hear from you when you see. What's happening with the racial justice uprising right now with people protesting now three weeks straight in the United States across the country. What are your observations of that? How does that make you feel that? I was wish young. Good enough to get protests. The free that those kids something his old as A. So I! Stay home, but I understand enough is enough. In the only way we know how to get attention. Is to protest. I don't condone losing and the killing that sort. But we got to sit down with people and discuss what's happening. And alleviate the situation. I'll. Educational. Needs Oh so much. Job Disparities the homelessness the health. There's so much that could be done if we would just work together. And the fact. that the color of my skin is the reason you don't were was made it so. It's just great ignorance. OPAL is that ignorance. Something that's a product of our education. System here in the United. States because. Your family has celebrated June teens. You have led a national movement to bring awareness, but also make June team. They federal holiday. And yet people are just learning about June teen. What does that say to you when you look at the education that that folks in this country have or don't have when it comes to the legacy of slavery and the history of slavery of black people in this country. It's not taught in the schools. What they do have is a shame. Pictures of people cut picking cotton and. Having them Trish in that they like doing this up. Pick cotton and I know. It's not something that you'd be proud you do. Not Seeing is education system needs to be better, but we can't burn the education system altogether because people learned this at home, they learned to dislike. They learned to the. They! Don't get it all from the school system. Opel, what would you like to see the June teeth holiday? Evolve into here in the United States. How do you think this holiday should be celebrated? Enjoy. The celebrations that we have? I'm just warning more people to know. Why would we celebrate? Enter join us. The protests listen. Those are not all black people up. There protested. These people all mich- nationalities, and what we give system regulated to address. The trump is that are happening to all people? To of. It's more visible. But to Mexican Americans and Asians Americans and all kind of people who were. So unhappy about what's happening to the emigrants. The children taken from my parents. I don't know what I would do. Somebody took my children me. Thank God there in the seventies so. We wanted people to understand that. Is a unifier. Let's get together and address these atrocities. Let's get together and tweak a educational system. Let's get together and fun decent jobs, so people can have a decent home. Let's see Rather Kate homelessness I think I'm preaching nothing wrong with preaching Opel, we appreciate it. Opel. Lee is a social impact leader based in Fort. Worth Texas WHO's been working to get June. Teeth recognized as a national holiday for years. Opal I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me, and to sharing your years of experience and wisdom with US thank you. For have. A. Way? That's it for us today. Thanks so much for listening. We have to give a quick shout out to the takeaway team that works to make this show as good as it is every week, our board operator W dot was in the studio at WNYC for US alongside director and sound designer Jake Howitt Alexandra not is our senior producer or producers are Jackie Martin Ethan. vadasz Meg Dalton. Jason Too Risky Lydia mcmullen. And Dina. PAALEA room who is our digital editor Katharina Barton is our intern and David. Gable is administrative assistant. Lee Hill is our executive producer? Our love thoughts to the family of singer Vera Lynn who was a star of the World War Two era and passed away this week at age, one, hundred and three. It's a good track to leave you with. Thanks so much for listening Amy Walters in tomorrow I'll be back with you on Monday I'm tansy innovate, and this is the takeaway.