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#WhoWouldWin: Jason Voorhees vs. Conan the Barbarian
It's captain America vs. Batman in the first ever live who would win show. Come see me, James, Kathy and Jade Sandline ED's zanies comedy club in Nashville. Tennessee on November six or stand up live in Huntsville, Alabama on November seven on the show, you something beautiful where Jason we'll be representing captain America. And I'll be taking the side of Batman. Come see us live where you the audience will decide who will win. They'll be prizes laps and definite consequences for the loser of this debate to get tickets to the absolutely historic event. Understood that reference go to WWW dot who would win show dot com slash live show. Come see who would live where you the audience will be a big part of the show and for gosh sake. Watch your language. It's a who would win Aloweiran addition Conan the bar Burien sharpens his sword. And goes looking for a fights crush animist to them before you. Camp. Crystal lake. Shea sin Vorhees is coming back for a sequel to give Conan trick. And the rest of us are treats in another. And welcome to another episode of who would win a show that completely ignores anything important happening in the world and said pocus on a fictional battle between two characters from WorldCom excite by and fantasy. I'm your host scabs. He and as always I'm doing my co-host chase Sandline and our amazing moderator. Crystal storm now before we start with the podcast. We've actually got some news about a new sponsor. We've got an ounce this, and I think this is going to be something that works really well for all of us and for the comic book community as a whole. That's how cool this is Kristie of anybody who I'm talking about. I know. So I should I say or should I guess? Well, hold on. I forgot how smart you are. You're very perceptive. Let's go to someone who maybe doesn't have Jay who do you think? Our new sponsor is radio shack. Sears K mart. Fought buster. Dan, third one is toys R us the fourth one, actually. And I'll joking side toys R us. I know. Well, you know, I hope they come back. Our sponsor, this is actually pretty huge. Our new sponsor to the who would win show is the final draft yet. The final draft the scriptwriting software that is industry standard for TV television, movies, documentaries, and anything else you wanna do entertainment. But there's something else that there are actually leading the way for and, you know, Jay as comic book writer, I think you'll appreciate this. They actually are great software to use for any present comic, brighter, and aspiring come writers, j what do you have to say about that? I am a very glad for this. Because as not only am I going to be a user and proud user of final draft. I am just glad to get to endorse something that. That not only I believe in. But that can really help people achieve their creative dreams. If you're a creative person, you know, that sometimes your mind can run away with you. And I think final draft is really great because it almost harnesses that creativity. And puts it in something that's legible, imagine legible from a right? I actually have a story about that way. Back when my very prescriptive a road. I didn't understand how to put everything into the right format for script writing. Right. So when you look at a script online, you know, you have to have it in a in a very very specific format, and I talked with producer. I was living Canada time. And I told him about this idea for movie, I wrote it, and I handed it to him, and we were having lunch. I'll never forget. What he did? He looked at the first page kind of looked at me. Like, I was a moron. Look through the restrooms. That's like, you know, peel through the rest and tossed the whole script in the air, the page, ply everywhere, and he's like, I'm not reading this. It's not. The right format you the weakest thing by. Oh by. And I'm like, are you kidding? I was really really angry. But the problem is he was right? And if in the industry of writing specially comic book writing, you know, Jay please crappy around this. But I think if you have the right format knowledge to make it look a lot better now to make a lot easier to read, but it actually makes you look a lot more professional are James that was only a half false equivalency. And what you said was definitely on points for the screenwriters j correctly from wrong that, but like don't we really need a consistent format for comic books. Just make it look not just easier read. But also make yourself look way more professional. Yes. And that's really what final draft is delivering right now with what will be I predict the standard in comic book script, right actually second. That prediction. Oh, what do they? Absolutely. I've used. Yeah. I've draft for scripts. I haven't used it for the comics that I've written, but I will. Well, I definitely will. Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. And they're coming out with final draft eleven they've got some great features for comic with writing. Specifically, not just templates for comic books and graphic novels. What have you? But also some great tools to help like a comic book writer kind of notes. So what have you? So again, we endorse final draft. We're super happy there in bores sponsor, and we'll be actually doing some giveaways with ripped as well to some of our listeners. I know is that crazy now the next thing I want to talk about guys there was a little bit of like bitterness over last episodes decision or victory for captain Kirk when he fought Indiana Jones, j what are your thoughts on that? Oh, who's who's bitterness? Are you all talk yours, actually and a few other people crystal you've been around. The first night when that would be that would be no for me. Okay, while okay. So how do we interpret it because I want to talk about this? You know, the complicate, you know, come up with people as a whole, really polarized, right? Like, we love our character so much that we don't wanna see them lose. I know there's a lot of love for Indiana Jones. There's a lot of captain Kirk. So how do you rectify when you feel your characters doesn't come out on top in who would win battle? What what are the psychological steps you need to take to recover from something? Like that. Jay like, what do you do when you're characters lose? All right. So to begin the, you know, the five stages, I it's denial. I didn't lose that debate. No, not at all. I was not the loser. Then there's anger. I can't believe that crystal will pick James then there's bargaining. Hey, Krystal, did you remember this point about when he got knocked out that one time, and you know, this happened this happened, then there's depression. Oh. I lost else. I could do. And finally there's acceptance which means it's time to record the next episode. Did you accept that loss though? Yes. Sure. Accepted it I don't have to agree with it. But I can accept that. There are you know, that captain Kirk is a bad ass. And I mean, he's a legend. He's very resourceful. It's just hard to put one over the other because they do have some things in common, and they both been very successful in their respective adventures. So it's kinda hard to pick one over the other to cut you off. But it needs to be stated that because Jay set this discord that Jay doesn't feel like he's ever really lost who went battle. So I just I just I want that. That's okay. Jay also feels he's of a normal height as well. Okay. So yeah. Okay. It's all good. It's all good. It's all good. Someone asked me like what is what should they do to recover from having their favorite character lose of who would win battle? And they are the medications you can take some type of meditation. I said, you know. The best cure is to Ashley listen, just like Jay said to the next episode. So with that being said, it's about that time. Jay, please. Do us the honors and announce today's matchup. Representing horror slasher films everywhere hockey goalie that didn't wait thirty minutes before going back to the lake Jason voorhees, and representing swords sorcery and bad acid ry. The only man asked nuts. Wear shirt and shoes at shoney's buffet Conan the bar berry. Is that actually thing shoney's? Absolutely. If they do they would if if Conan the bar Burien walks into your shoney's, are you going to sell them? He's gotta wear shirt. I'm not I may I may I like a lot. I love his personality. Okay. With that being said, let's get the Taylor tape or both combatants. Today's tale. The tape. Obviously is brought to you by who would win shirts, accept limitations. Find the official who had when shirt on Amazon type in hashtag who would win. Jay, please. Give us the important details on Conan name Conan the bar Burien Conan, the destroyer Conan, the conqueror king Conan not to be confused with Conan O'Brien he is known for being older than my Mimi because he was created by Robert E Howard in nineteen thirty two as the embodiment of an idealized barbarian wild, strong and. Pellets and capable of toppling armies with nothing more than the power of his sweaty. Biceps and picks Conan himself lived during a time after the waters claimed the lost city of Atlantis and before recorded history. A time called the high boreal age. General powers Conan embodies the archetype of the pre human barbarian and is more comparable to mythic Demi gods like Hercules, achilles Sampson and Hector Conan possesses superhuman levels of strength, endurance, speed stamina and has a mind technically inclined for battle also has an instinct for war in combat making his battle actions impossible to predict and he possesses a bar Burien six cents. In addition to the normal attributes of just being a really big bad ass barbarian. His standard weapon for this fight is his barbarian sword, which is also known as the Atlantis splayed. It is strong enough to cut through standard metal swords and weapons without breaking. An interesting fact Conan is part of the marvel universe. I created in nineteen thirty two, but the booed, and marvel comics and nineteen seventy largely stayed in his own time period, but occasionally cross past with marvel heroes. And it was recently announced that marvel has reacquired the Conan license and the barbarian is coming home. Very cool. I actually got hold of some old Conan of our burying comic books. They are excellent. Like, really, really good classics. All right. Well done Jay. And here the details for Jason voorhees. Now, Jason voorhees was created by Victor Miller and Jason's the main character from the Friday thirteenth film series and made his debut appearance. I write of thirteen film back in nineteen eighty as the young son of camp Cooke churn killer, MRs voorhees now Jason voorhees was born the small town of crystalline on June thirteenth nineteen forty six to Elias. Pamela voorhees Jason was afflicted with severe facial deformities hydrocephalus, which means there's a lot of fluids sort of different parts of your brains. Your head kind of gets really deformed as well. As mental disabilities. Raising Jason on her own hamlet kept us on isolated from the community not letting attend school in educating him in their home on the outskirts of crystal lake. This would eventually lead Jason to respect his mother. Tune insane degree whereby he would take and act on any command. She gave him in the summer of nineteen fifty seven Pamela unable to get a babysitter for Jason resorted to bring him to camp crystal lake where she worked as a cook. Jason had actually been with his mom most of the time instead of other kids leading the most people thinking wasn't very smart. So kids would constantly bully him while being bullied by the other campers at one time Jason tended to escape from his tour mentors, but the cruel children caught up. Him on the dock and through Jason into the lake where he seemingly drowned though Jason's body was ever found the camp closes result. But reopened the next summer. It was close again when Pamela mad with greed murdered berry and Claudette the counselor. She blamed for Jesus drowning Pam was never spent of the murders and all subsequent attempts opened the camp ended in failure presumably due to sabotage from hamels part resulting the camping they've camp. Blood by locals who came to believe the area was cursed. After appearing to have died due to drowning Jason was somehow revived constructing living crew Shelton the poorest Jason seemingly waited for his mother to find him a mash live in the woods surrounding the cat. Our cat Bristol for over twenty years now from then on Jason would go on numerous killing sprees at nearby camps towns and cities Williams Shetty and Waring's icon o'clock you mask having being resurrected from seemingly being destroyed over and over again Jason voorhees demonstrates overall reluctance to just stay dead over the years and numerous films. Jason voorhees has demonstrated the phones to human abilities. Anti abilities. So we have supernatural durability where he's able to take a gunshots. Eletricity being lectured and even surviving motorboat propeller to the face. He had superhuman strength, y'all. So as super human resistance to pain and become virtually immortal Jason also has superhuman healing and now possesses the unique ability to regenerate any loss and damaged tissue at accelerated rate on top of that Jason has super stealth and can seemingly appear nears victims from out of nowhere in is known to easily slip in and out of areas. Undetected Jason for some reason can also swim at incredible speeds. And it's completely unrestricted by water resistance. And if that is enough Jason hall also has degree of weapons proficiency where you can use anything disposal as a weapon in instantly use that weapon, very very effectively. And here's an interesting fact about Jason actually research this. It turns out he has a thing for women with blonde hair. How do we know? Well, almost every Friday, the thirteenth movie, the last woman to be killed has blond hair. So if you happen to have. Jason for he's coming after you, and your woman and have blonde hair. Make sure that you always have someone beside you, different color hair. As that way. You'll know they have to be killed. I before chasing comes after you. And that's your health. And now you have. And now, you have the facts both opponents crystal do you have any questions or concerns possibly a paradigm shift before? No, no, I do not we have agreed on versions of both characters. So I am ready for this today. Have we? Agreed. I don't know. Well, Jay, let's see how this plays out. Please proceed with your first point. All right. So crystal, I know that you are really into psychic history. I know you've done some of that stuff on like, right? Also, teric stuff the metaphysical things that we were talking. Yeah. Yeah. So Conan comes from a world a lot like that. And in my point number one, I call this a how Lueneburg battle of the monsters. And by the way, I'm stoked that we're all recording a Halloween themed episode today on aftermath for our patriot users. I think we should share our Halloween costume ideas. So tune in for that afterwards, if you're on patriotic, but for this Halloween special show, it's important that you and the listeners understand we aren't dealing with a human versus monster battle the thesis statement. I would choose for my first point is that this battle is monster versus monster. Now, James will tell you and already did a few reasons why voorhees is a monster. It's my job to make you understand that Conan is every bit a supernatural fiend killer and how he's suited down well suited to take down. Jason. But Conan comes from a race of barbarians known as the Simeon simmering, actually, the marines lived thousands and thousands of years ago. Oh, before any modern human civilizations that we're currently aware of they look like humans, but their abilities are way beyond we, you know, weak fragile modern humans. This was before. Apparently, we lost our hope DNA and the same goes for the other groups of people in Conan he exist in a world where magic and mythical monsters are real is kinda like that Will Smith in in bright when he's just passing a ferry in passing a Centaur on the street, that's Conan's life. He's fought giant snakes dinosaurs demons cyclops wrestle giant rhinos and fall kaija size. Monsters Conan is the greatest example of the finest specimen in the most powerful race of humans are that's who this guy is he started fighting battles and killing thousands and thousands of grown men with his bare hands when he was just fifteen. Eighteen years old that was when he left his homeland and decided to seek his own fortune and adventures he just had to adventure. He's a wanderer. So keep in mind in my next points that many of the feats that Conan accomplishes are against much stronger, humans and Conan's own strength level is superhuman as are his endurance. His speed and his fighting skills and reaction time. He is strong enough to tear metal apart with his bare hands snap chains. Tear iron bars gates from walls lifts a car and destroys much larger creatures than Jason voorhees ever encounters. He wants held a T Rex's mouth open, which would have been much better crossover for the drastic park series than these Jurassic world movies were getting but most of Jason's in. Oh, like what he does. And how he hunts it requires him to sneak up. Scare victims. And the last thing for this point to remember is you cannot sneak up on Conan. He has a sixth sense of our Burien sense. It allows him to see in the dark. It alerts him like a spider sense when someone is about to sneak up on them and one of his most famous adventures Conan went blind and had to rely solely on the bar Burien sense. And he was every bit as good as ED's as daredevil. He was able to fight armies and monsters just like you normally could with his eyes and the sense is so attuned that at once allowed him to catch a knife thrown at him. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but he was asleep at the time, and he didn't even have to wake up to catch the knife. So crystal in this matchup today, you're going to have to decide between the ultimate barbarian versus a slow moving killer that likes to pick on camp counselors and children Conan actually goes up against competent opponents with his amazing fighting skills powers. I mean, he's a master swordsman. His sword is described as being a part of him. He even defeated Zappala VO the world's greatest swordsman of the high Borey and age making him the greatest sword. Fighter in his entire ancient world. He's consistently listed as the best swordsman in all of fiction or among them. And I really challenge anyone to name another fake swordsman. That's going to beat them. Zoro, captain, Jack. Sparrow, Kylo Ren. I don't know I'll get into more specifics in my next point. But for this one I just wanna make it clear crystal that Conan is beyond vanilla human. He often deals with a supernatural based threats including threats that come from the pit of hell itself like demons and Jason voorhees. I mean, he's a slow moving methodical hunter. But a Conan is not going to be like any pray that he's encountered. And by the end of this show. You're going to agree with that statement, even if you don't pick Conan, but I will prove that in a fight between Conan Jason voorhees will just become one of the many many undeterred legions to add to his kill count, which is conservatively estimated to be in the six figures and not the lower wins. Counter. Okay. James? Okay. I love Conan love Conan. But in my research. So it's just a point. I need to clarify Conan is described. I I don't think it's ever been described as superhuman like he's been described as peak human, and I'm willing to say like maybe his breed of humanity might be stronger than modern day humanity. So I get where you're going with that. But he's not super he abs- on Lou superhuman. He is listed as superhuman in every source that I've checked he's in the ten the five to ten ton range. I mean, you can't be peak human and hold up the mouth of a dinosaur or lift a car over your head. So I'm doing a quick Wicky Conan. He's would you say he's like, captain, America's strength. He's much stronger because captain America is peak human and. Conan can do five to ten tonnes. I disagree with that. But it's not a matter of. It is actually because there's a number of things I've read would says completely otherwise. But whatever this is what you do Jay. And I'm okay with that. So I like how you're using it enhanced version of Conan. We'll get back to that later. Now, I do have someone swordsman who could beat Conan is that it would be a Vadim. Well, okay. I thought about that. And I think that's a very good choice. But to be fair. I mean, you'd have to give Vader like a metal sort. I find your lack of faith disturbing. Or you'd have to give Conan alight sabre. I'd still put money on fater. Yeah. Just I don't know who I would pick. Honestly. That. Okay. So with that being said, let me get to my first point. And my first point about Jason voorhees is simply a declared of what really more of a question, which is how do you stop this guy? So when you look at someone like Conan, the bar Burien destroy what have you you have to agree that he can give as well. As take insane amounts of damage. However, there are very few characters within the world of comics and Saifi that can take the amount and insane severity of damage that Jason can. And then still be more than happy to get up and come for more in the Freddie versus Jason film. There's one particular scene where Jason is getting hammered by Freddie, Krueger. Now, keep in mind. This is Freddie Krueger who is super humanly strong resilient himself. So in a period of under two minutes. Freddie. Krueger hits Jason squarely in the chest with a large gas container milk container that has launched and I'm like a high speed torpedo, then he impales him to the ground with dozens of metal spikes hits him with a swing large metal container. That strikes Jason repeatedly. A large regular construction sowed wrecking ball and then tries run over with oversized metal container on wheels filled with construction materials and actually succeeds with that. Now, what was the effect on Jason did he bleed? Sure, did you get slow down for a minute. Absolutely. Did it stop them? Not a chance. In fact, Jason pull the middle Speight spikes out of his body and continue to fight, Freddie, seemingly unaffected by all of it. And another film Jason somehow ambush by an FBI task force and shot Conrad's of times by rifle shotguns in sorta automatic weapons with the end result. He eventually falls down. And then gets up though, as though he's like, perfectly fine. He's got some bullet holes in them. But he keeps coming. Do. You want electrocute Jason go ahead because he's been good number time. So take it and he'll get up once on fire feel free because he won't notice it, and they'll still come after you wanna stab him or him one something go ahead because he'll actually pull that out and use that as a weapon against you wanna cut off a bike part. Go ahead because that won't stop them and eventually grow the body part back, and this is my favorite wanna blow him up in the. Freddie versus Jason film the gas tanks. Previously mentioned that were shot of Jason somehow blew up and Jason was caught in the huge blast. What happened? He came back with clothes a little burnt than that. He was fine. Also, I'm not to mention the Jason X film. I could you don't I'll mention one thing in the Jason X film. It stated when I do like a flashback to present day that the US government somehow captured him in tried everything could to kill Jason. And nothing worked. They tried to hang on the try to shoot him gash. You everything nothing worse. The only option they had was to somehow freeze them eventually that didn't work either. So as powerful as Conan is and he's indeed very power powerful. He doesn't have what it takes to hit Jason hard enough or significantly enough to keep them down never mind defeat him. And that's my point number one. Remember, he's super naturally fueled for that type of endurance and durability. I take it. I will say to the counter points 'cause I went on Wicca PD very quickly, and it states clearly that Conan is not superhuman where are you reading my will link you right now, it's it's called the internet one week. But I've got a Conan the barbarian issue. Ten that states. He has the strength of ten to twenty men right there in the chasms printed machine. Be he can be that strong. But he is not superhuman. Well, you need to look at every other source. How many okay, do we? I don't know. She's she's the moderator. She can she can do what she wants. I do. Okay. This random Wikipedia articles just says he needed help in one book, you're quoting one line from Wikipedia. I'm giving you actual feats citations from primary sources what you're doing right now. It's like going into a class on strana me watching a live feed of how many moons that Jupiter has directly from space and raising your hand to say excuse me, you're wrong with Kapiti says Jupiter has a different number of moons. But you know, what I'm gonna keep looking a little while James on this Conan super strength issue while I look are there. Any other good podcast? You've heard lately. You've heard of the boogeyman the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot, but what about the Blackwood bug man in the new podcast Blackwood, you'll be taken on wild ride by three of the town teenagers Lawley, Brian and Nathan who start a podcast, investigate the urban legend monster of Blackwood, the bug man. But soon find out that the dangers much more real than they thought from the creator's Punto killer Blackwood is a chilling tale about secrets monsters and murder, and it's out just in time to preview out this Halloween. So definitely take a listen to find out what happens to the black teens be sure to subscribe to Blackwood on apple podcasts or wherever you're listening right now. Well, James that was very thorough and completely spontaneous answer to my question about the podcast sounds kind of creepy might sleep with the lights on now. But as for Conan and super strength. Hey, crystal, are you laughing at me? Okay. But there are things that he does that are just so far beyond peak human, the facts will show it, and that kind of gets to my next point actually, my next point is point too. And that is called Conan is the one punch barbarian. So this is just following off. From what I said before Conan has this superhuman strength. It is beyond peak level human probably closer between five to ten on level. I say that because of all the feats. He's accomplished many of which include in killing large enemies or supernatural creatures with often a single blow Conan is six foot four. He's capable of destroying iron bars in one shot and a mechanical engineering student used structural analysis in his job at a car plant to test the derby of parts, he determined that Conan would have to be in the upper ten tonnes strength category in order to destroy steel and iron as often as he does. And as we already read Conan, the barbarian number thirteen. He has the strength of ten to twenty men. So that's above peak. Human Conan has one shotted giant bulls. Giant eagles crocodiles. And dinosaurs a bowls neck is strong enough to support a car and Conan was able to snap the bull's neck with one hand one shot one kill he crushes warriors while they're still inside their arms as well. He is lifted boulders much larger than his own six foot for body and he's strong enough to singlehandedly pull down a castle tower. Like when you're invading the castle with the battering ram and all that he can walk over and pull down. It's our Conan doesn't even have to finish Jason permanently to win the fight James gave some great examples of how you just can't keep a good horror slasher down at least until the next movie and Conan doesn't have to permanently win. But there are several things Conan could do to end Jason to stop him, and then walkaway safely, and you could probably walk away at a snail's pace as slow as Jason moves. But Conan could pick up a job. Boulder or any number of objects and just crush Jason beneath them and walkaway safely. Where Jason can't get out. He could also pick up Jason himself and hurl him several miles away. And just walk away. A Conan once hit a giant so hard that the giant went flying for miles and Jason is much smaller than giants. He's comparible incised to Conan. This would be especially useful. If Conan could hurl Jason with pure strength back into camp. Crystal lake Jason spirit, often lies dormant in the lake until the emerges to machete people again when the time is rights, or when they wanna make another movie. So if Jason tangles with Conan he's going to have to take some hits, which we know he can do. And then he's gonna get thrown back in the lake and it's worth noting at the end of Friday, the thirteen part six Jason lives. He was put to rest at the bottom of camp. Crystal lake. He would. Stayed there. Forever. If a psychic hadn't come along to revive him in part seven so one way to really finish off Jason is to put him back in the lake, but that's all hand to hand. Combat. Let's not forget that despite Conan has his barbarian sword, and Jason has trademark machete will the machete is going to be completely useless in this fight. On the Shetty is made out of thin metal. It's designed for hacking Lynn's and brushes in the woods. And the handle is not a full Tang handle so Conan Atlantis sword. Cuts through armor, and humans, and humans inside armor in one stroke, the machete blade can break from hitting trees or normal bones too hard Conan can take the hits. He's got serious durability. He can cut through the machete like it's made of paper. But if Jason strikes Conan with his machete, the machetes just gonna break like Jason tried to murder a boulder with it. So Jason can't really hurt Conan and very importantly Jason's old tired tricks that he's been using for these decades of slasher movies will also be useless against Conan because Jason sneaks up on his victims. That's how he gets his kills. I've already mentioned that you cannot. Sneak up on Conan because of his six cents. But but Conan could however sneak up on Jason and turn the tables Conan has this amazing stealth he can even sneak up on predators and their natural habitats. He wants climbed a tree so quietly that he couldn't be heard by the barbarian Crowe, which was part of a race of humans that could hear a man's breathing at over twenty paces away and Conan snuck up on them. So I think Jason is really going to fight Conan. He's gonna last a few seconds at best after he realizes that Conan already saw him coming and after Jason realizes, hey, there's not a whole I can take a lot of damage, but there's not a lot. I can do to hurt Conan. Jason is going to quickly realize he better just get back in the lake and wait for some horny preteen campers to have sex in the woods again before he decides to venture out. That's my point number two. Counter. Way to keep it classy. Right. The that's what he that's his thing. Like if you are having sex around lake he's gonna come kill you. He such a ater such aid or anyway chain. All right J. You're all over the place point number two. Let me explain why first of all you said you had someone or you read something online or some material that said that okay? If if Conan were to be able to bend these bars and made on this material he would have this type of strength. Here's the deal. Aren't you? The one who told me that you don't count real world mathematics or physics to figure out or state a character. Strength. I mean you've done that to me twice. I'm not saying I counted it. But I remember you did that with that man beyond and also with hawk man, I think it's worth mentioning as supplementary evidence. A secondary source are comic book mid source. Material is the primary source and outside. Material would be a secondary source, which is meant to complement my first point. So if I can use real world science to support what's already in the books, we did at seven it's in your case, you're arguing against a straw, man. Because what you were doing. And I spoke up was your. Trying to use a secondary source to contradict a primary source. What the hell did you say? So here's the thing. I agree. I'll dri that Conan the barbarian has strength that would be considered super strength, but lower definitely don't see five to ten times. But let me just kind of go to the next thing. You said he could hurl an enemy several miles away. Well off panel at least out off panel. Okay. Gotcha up panel. So you said the same thing he did the same thing to a giant. He punches Ryan so hard. He went several miles away as well. He's flipped over cars. He's pushed open dinosaur mouse. He's thrown stone pillars. I don't know if anyone took a measurement of oh here, we go. He is lifted a giant log that was you know, I don't wanna be much heavier than Jason and threw it to use it as a javelin against a cyclops in the cyclops was. Definitely more than a football field away easily half a football field on just judging by the perspective of how small he looks in. This panel isn't a full football field. Like, you said or half of? I'm kidding. I I'm married to an attorney, and I get real like that all the time. So okay, let's say this. I understand what you're saying. I'm gonna go with, you know, low level super strength and just leave it at that now. And I actually will agree that Conan barbarian does have some pretty incredible strength, especially because of his size and stature that I do see like people talking about, you know, I've seen references in the comic books. I've read about Conan where he does have really good stealth for human being that size like it's insect superior stealth. But that's really interesting because at actually doesn't compare to the stealth of Jason voorhees in every point number two, which is oddly enough named stealth I like seeing style. So there's something about Jason I found to be very. Very very intriguing. So when he's pursuing his victims he very often catches him by surprise. Jay, you already kind of mentioned that maybe they're in a force cabin. They didn't hear him coming. Or maybe there were so distracted by finding a severed head in a fridge. Then the complete forgot he was chasing them in the first place. But very often. He does something different. That makes them seem like he can either teleport or has super speed or maybe even both. And this is the sinister nature Jason very often. He'll let his victims see him coming in Ashleigh. Let's run away. The soon to be victim things. They've lost him until from out of nowhere. Jason is somehow standing right in front of them. So for example, when chasing one particular victim our large boat. The victim sees the potential victim. Or the soon to be victim. Sees Jason front of them tries to hit him with an axe. Jason just catches the accent tosses it and this soon to be victim sprints in the opposite direction to the enter other into the boat, and it kind of looks like a huge. Sport south boat. So he sprints sprints sprints and from out of nowhere. Jason is somehow there waiting for him when he gets there. Right. That makes no sense on another Cajun a young woman is in what looks like dancehall and Jason in front of her. She turns to try and run another direction and away from them in the moment. She turns over Jason's right in front of her. She turns again, and again, and Jason somehow is right there in farmer until finally turns and guess chasing tired. This actually grabs her show came out now in Jason taste, Manhattan. Jason throws a character named Charles out of a window from several stories high only do appear on the ground about five seconds later. So think about this guy gets thrown through of like fourth or fifth story window that Jason's. I just toss them through. He hits the ground two three four five seconds later. Jason's in front of him. How do you get there? So fast. There's no way to explain what happened other than Jason having sort sort of magical to either teleport or remove it super speed. He even took, Freddie. Krueger completely by surprise. A couple of. Times during the bats. That's FREDDY Kruger the person who catches people by surprise by tacking them in their nightmares. Again. I don't know if this is speed or teleportation or what actually is Jason for he's demonstrated time and time again, the ability to choose to magically appear disappear we're going after its victims. So with his stealth like ability, which again, I'm not sure if it's supernatural super speed could be magical or supernatural teleportation he could easily catch Conan by surprise. And even uses Billy to a vague Conan's attacks in tireless. So think about it Conan's great with his stealth. He's got these great senses. He can hear coming. But when you're using magic or the supernatural to just appear that kind of overcomes the scientific nature of your enhance skills. And that's why stealth is kind of a big thing for Jason while he used that. And how he'll use that to actually beat Conan. And that's point number two. Counter. Interesting. Okay, continue. I mean, the whole thing was kind of an argument from ignorance fallacy, which is to say we can't explain why X happened. So it must be this. The the reason it does happen is cinematography. It's giving you the perspective of the horror victim j cinematography. So so let me ask you questions. So the Jay. Okay. So when Conan punches something, and it goes miles away is that a result of the art the artwork that is a result of demonstrating what he is capable of doing that. Which the explanation? We already know that it superhuman strength your ad hawking explanations to explain something that doesn't make sense. If you have any official source that says, he can tell a port and all that. That's great. Well, one thing I like that. She said though was about Jason's like endurance in how he just keeps going and he's a good swimmer. And that's something that Conan can do as well. But I enjoyed your points. I'm gonna get onto my point number three. And I think everybody's gonna love what I called this point this points point, number three is called Conan kills the marvel universe. Dramatic now in this point Jason voorhees. I'll give him his due. He's racked up an impressive number of kills throughout his movies now, including Freddie versus Jason but not counting the two thousand nine reboot. Jason kills one hundred eighty nine people in the Friday the thirteenth film series. It's not a bad number. He's still way ahead of Michael Myers. But Conan the barbarian killed many many times that number in his first battle. All right. All you need to consider also crystal that Jason goes after the young the week and the scared he catches them off guard. And they always begin the fight being terrified of him Conan on the other hand who wants to test his skills and continuously fight outside his weight class and every adventure. I mean when Jason ever really gone up against someone outside of his. Weight class. When is he met an opponent that really tests him Conan always goes after opponents to test him. He fights armies for one thing. I think it would be impossible to rack up a kill count for Conan since nineteen thirty two especially since he kills such large groups of people, and he's also fought and defeated gods and immortals in Conan's description in his own words, he says I've fought many gods. One included Emma tip. There was an Egyptian God. And he's out wrestle giants. Ogres giant dragons and beaten them all one opponent that he faced at one point was a demon. That was possessing a body made of a substance described as living iron, and we all know that Jason at this point. He says sensually a body possessed by evil and spirit Conan while not throwing out magic himself. He's excellent at. Overcoming magic. And Jason wouldn't be outside his wheelhouse to defeat because he's defeated many other magical hell spawn, but the most notable aspect of the fight is the disparity in their fighting skills. Jason doesn't really have any e watch the movies. He walks towards people. He stabs he relies on brute strength than you know, almost invincibility to get him through everything, but he can't defeat Conan the barbarian with brute strength Conan just has much more. And Conan has also fought fought characters in marvel comics and won his major victories in the marvel universe. And I I hate to say this because I'm going to be defending him in the live show. Coming up is against captain America. That's not bad for your resume Conan fault, captain America in the comic what if Conan versus captain America and cap manage to. Destroy conan's. She'll sword with his shield and manage to side kick Conan full force in the face and Conan tanked it. He ignored the pain kept fighting and stabbed captain frigging America in the leg. There are few people even super humans in the marvel universe. That can no sell a full force kick to the face from captain America. And after that after Conan stabbed him in the leg. He wasn't worth Conan's attention anymore. He basically told cap to stand down and said if you try to fight me again, you'll be dead meat at the end of my blade in a moment. And I'll cap could do was stand there and say, yeah, the students rights and then Conan walked away safely and his other big victory was in a battle with wolverine. So Conan definitely knows how to fight people with healing factors because he defeated wolverine. He showed off some of his fight strategy. Namely when he strategically allowed himself to be cut by one of wolverines calls. Yes. He stood there and allowed himself to be sliced with adamancy him because he knew he could take the hit. And then he could win which he did a Conan realized how fast and agile wolverine was something Jason definitely is not. And he knew that he would have to take the hit and after giving wolverine a free shot Conan went for the decapitation move. And it would have worked if it hadn't been for wolverines adamantine skeleton. But instead Conan sword broke on the Atta Mansi him and wolverine lay dead and bleeding out on the floor. Now Wolverton that Amancio and healing factor would have revived eventually that took many hours or even days and by then, you know. Am was long gone. So if Conan can handle demons gods immortals and definitively beats wolverine and captain America. What's Jason going to do with his slow walk and a machete from dick sporting goods. Counter. Okay. Cool. That's all I did not like these little crossover. That's very interim to read that one where he fucked American. That's cool. It's from Marvel's what if series what year would those what if comes written by the way sometime after nineteen seventy. Yeah. I think the eighties right to say. Okay. So nineteen eighties. And you're saying what if comics count as part of the not necessarily canon like the characters cannon, but this is part of these count. What if commas count as part of the arguments is accurate counts for an argument because it's a measurement of the feats. If you take an example from a what if comic with Spiderman, you can still use it as feats for Spiderman? But it's not anything that happened in a crossover. It's not anything that happened in their storyline. It's basically like what they were saying if we took and Conan as he is against captain American wolverine as they are. Here's what would accounts so we're on the same page here. So accounts were saying this would count because we see examples of what they would do. Yeah. That's what the Conan. I'm arguing would do. Okay. Good. Yeah. All right. Oh, by the way, Jason has been tested by someone. I'd say with. Even more power than he's got and came out ahead. And that was by Freddie, Krueger. But at the end of the movie who was walking out holding whose head it was Jason four. He's walking out of the crystal lake holding FREDDY Krueger's head decapitated head. I'm saying, Freddie is powerful in a different way. He's not as physically powerful. He's only powerful when he gains the like energy from dreams. He only exist in the dream world. No in the film. He did take Jason into the dream world the nightmare world and heavily smash the hell out of him. And Jason took it all and started fighting back and then in the real world. They actually did fight in each have demonstrated crazy superhuman abilities. Jason even Fred even showed like really great martial arts combative skills to throwing this crazy elbows. It was really awesome. Now with that being said, let me get to my third point again, I really like own and Jay. Really like how you representing Conan. But this point I'm gonna have to call supernatural, bad assery. So there couple of other powers or supernatural abilities. Jason has that will help them to defeat Conan. Now, the first one is supernatural super crazy strength, and we've been arguing this Conan is is super strong and been described as being strong twenty men quite a few places. I will agree. He's lower levels. Hooper strike non problem with that, however, strong that is I just don't think it is as strong. Maybe it's equal. But I don't think asteroid is Jason supernatural super strength Jason strong enough to smash in the front of cars and that includes their engine. So yes to punch through a car he'll smash it down the whole back in the car will flip up and the whole engines wreck the whole thing. That's just smashing it with, you know. A simple shot. He goes through heavy metal doors without a problem when it comes to large and heavy metal doors. He actually has this really cool fighting ability where we're tactic where people will hide behind a metal door Cam good. And then Jason just like using the strength and stabs machete through the metal door and into the person high behind it is actually a really cool tactic. Jason's actually so strong that we punches someone. He sends them flying through the air. I wouldn't say miles and miles like Conan did with Jason. But I'd say they fly through walls, they fly through the air. And when he punches someone like a simple shot he usually or typically will rip their head off with that punch in one shot now Conan super strong. But I did recent comic books cone in, you know, smash someone hard enough in the face to kill them because they're giaga crushed and made the impact screwed up, the brain, whatever. But Jason's the person who like. Punches someone in the head in their head clear off, and he doesn't easily now against FREDDY Krueger, Jason punch him hard enough to send him dozens of feet through the air and onto the top of a house in that same movie, Freddie, dropped a massive metal boiler on Jason in the nightmare realm where Jason was seemingly not as strong and what Jason do after being pinned by it. He just push it off of himself fairly got up. And it was fine. He pushed off a massive metal boiler the size of like a couple of cars. And that was enough. He was able to lift a person he you know, he he's families to people in field. I guess they're about to make out or something and they're kind of racing. So Jason does what you know, anyone any of us would do he takes a big spike stabs both of them through it and through their chests. Chris I know you've talked about this a number of times he takes right? I've seen the video. And then he takes the the the implant that he stabbed him with and the bond person falls off it in the person's still present. So we full licks it in the air uses to Hansie looks in the air and. Since that person literally hundreds of feet through the air hundreds of feet and strong as it is. He's not I can send someone flying hundreds of feet through the air type of strong. He just isn't Hauer. There's another supernatural power. Jason's that was demonstrated in the modern film. Classic. See? I'm sure you've seen on PBS film. Our on the Disney channel is called. Jason goes to hell now in that film. It turns out that Jason has the ability to actually possess another person. So it turns out that someone eight Jason's heart for some reason. Why not and it was a source of Jason's power Jason possesses the person who did so and takes over spotting Jason goes from body to body until he can find the body of a blood relative which somehow restoring back to normal. I don't know how many this works the story was super convoluted, but he was able to possess people. Not just blood relatives. He was actually able to possess people like in the four of an energy bolt that came out of his face or mouth or something and jump to another person. So of Jason can possess another per. Why couldn't he do the same thing? Conan fact, Jay's would probably wanna do that as Conan's body would be a really good vessel for Jason if he can make Conan the as in when having who knows we could so Jason supernatural superhuman strength and his ability to possession of human being he'll have no problem, overcoming Conan in that fight. And that's my point number three. Just spike in people all day. Okay. Awesome. Well, I think it's pretty clear that I proved Conan is much stronger based on our relative feats that we named. I'm not I'm not being a jerk. I'm just saying it's you know, he made some good points. Like Jason would not down the metal door while Conan would tear down the house around the person Jason and paled too skinny teenagers in a field. I already said he impaled a freaking cyclops giant well over twenty to twenty five to fifty feet tall. So so hold on hunt. So Conan is listed at having the strength of twenty men you're saying twenty men could lift that person. And then fling them up that spear hundreds of feet through the if you could harness the strength of all twenty of them at the same time. You could sure okay. Okay. That is absolutely incorrect. Absolutely, correct. I've see I love strongman competitions. I there's been some crazy stuff that. Like a bunch of try to do they do and teams not a chance of that happening. Well, you're comparing real life things, and you know, I never do that. I'm fully aware, I need to I really need to counter your magic point. That was the main thing that I needed to counter cone an has magic resistance. He is a Munin to mind control and hit Natasha's ING and a demon. He fought a demon which Jason kind of is after some point a demon wants tried to hit Natasha's and mind control Conan, and he just broke free of it of his own willpower. And the demon was shot. He's like what God could have helped you with this and Conan's like crow did not have to aid me. You know, I did that on my own. And the reason the guy eight the heart, by the way, I don't think Conan's gonna eat his heart. But the reason that he ate the heart was because Jason spirit somehow hypnotized him to do it. That was how he was able to get back in the world by someone consuming a piece of him. So if he's starting like with Conan. His patient zero for possession. He's going to have to hit Natasha him into eating part of them. Let's not have no says how it can take over the body though. It's a soul binding thing. It's not it's not a hidden because Conan Ashley researches. You're right Conan can't be hypnotized because he has a mantra the actually says to himself that completely keeps him impervious to any form of noses. But here's the thing Conan. It's a soul binding by the I'm not saying it would work. I'm not saying wouldn't well, not the sole binding did not occur. I didn't say it was hypnosis. You're talking about two different things. The hypnosis was what convinced the morgue worker to eat his heart. And after the morgue worker had to do that. He couldn't just be bound to Jason until he consumed part of him after that turned into a soul binding thing. So that's two different things. And if Conan is the only person around then to be patient zero for the spellbinding, you have to eat part of Jason if that was the case if that was the case, why wouldn't the more worker of just gotten possess? Best instead of having to eat, the heart. I because the same reason of the artists who wrote the throwing of objects and in any event Conan can't be possessed either. He fought a demon entity name were all W R A L, and he was like about to beat him. He's like, I'm gonna claim your soul. And then he says, whoa. He's like it's as though you not even human as though you possess. No soul at all. And conan's. Like, yeah. I am soulless. So you can't really possess me. Actually, you know. I do have a question for you this this. And this is something I just because and this is not me trying to catch anything. So Jason's been shot at in. You know, like, especially that once the FBI agents that kinda given rob on for whatever reason, and he is just hit with like shotgun blast guns. The whole thing. Every time we're gonna think of. Assault rifles everything and he just stands air keeps getting up the whole thing. He's been electrocuted. All that. How would cone into against that? He is actually been able to be fast enough to dodge bullets. I know that that's not what you're asking. I would say that he would do as well if not better than a Jason did in that scene. Jason so getting shot in the head. He yeah. Because actually Conan has taken a his fallen down a ravine and smacked his head on a rock where others would have split open. But he just had a headache that was in Conan the bar Burien seventy nine and he's also got this crazy, endurance where like he got bitten by a school of sharks went on to swim ninety miles. No problem. I just out Conan would be able to take machine gun fire nonstop shotgun. Blasts shots to the head throughout his body and be able to well he was able to take punches from an another barbarian. Wearing magic gauntlets and those gauntlets strong enough to crush and shatter stone with these I think that would be a bit harder than a bullet. I know it's a different kind of impact. But he is taken punches like that. So he hasn't taken bullets. Well, he is dodged bullets. I have not. But he, but so you're not really answering the question. Well, see a bar Burien doesn't encounter bullets a whole lot. Let's point number four. Okay. Well, I'm ready for my final point, which is going to be fun. I'm ready to have some fun. This final point is just called James is going to love this. How do you stop Jason? Because guys, let's be honest. We Jason voorhees is like a bad case of herpes that wants to murder you and it just keeps coming back. All right. So let's let's have some fun with this final point. And let's think of some ways that Conan could end Jason and walkaway safely now Conan can tank slices from wolverines adamantine calls. All right wolverine got a free shot and he couldn't finish Conan. I don't think there's anybody else that could say that. So Jason if he was able to cut Conan at all it's not gonna remotely slow him down with that little machete and Conan and Jason both are in new immune and can block out all pain. So it's a wash whoever can take the most pain. They can't really hurt each other. So Conan has to stop Jason. And he'll figure out how to do it because his intelligence is actually very high. He's mastered like advanced linguistic. Abilities. He taught himself to be a fief a sailor a soldier and he's mastered military commander skills, he has an instinctive combat style. So Conan's going to say, you know, how do I finish this fight and get out of here. Let's review some ways I think he most likely wins the fight just by chopping Jason up. That's actually how Jason was finished off in the summer of nineteen Eighty-four win Tommy Jarvis hacked up his body with a machete just over and over again. And then they buried him and Tommy had no extra strength. He just had Jason's regular machete, but still managed to hack Jason up enough for him to get away safely and Conan has his superior strength and the extra powerful, strong, Atlantis blade. It's not vibe rainy Morad Amancio him, but it stronger than regular steel. So it would really be a simple matter of just cutting Jason in half or several pieces and ending the fight that way. Way and Conan often cuts man and horse in half with one stroke Conan could also win the most likely way is going to be decapitation because immortals like Jason like, Freddie and other beings of that nature can be killed by decapitation and Conan's favorite. Hobby is just like cutting people's heads off. I already mentioned that when Conan had his chance to kill wolverine. He went for decapitation Conan also is decapitated three headed giant snakes. He is crushed heads and one blow with his bare hands any cuts the heads off hundreds of the picked tribe all by himself and Conan also fought a guy in one book who is called the evil shaman and killed him by decapitation while Conan was drugged with poison at the time and the shaman was try. To invade his mind with magic, he's still just decapitated the guy to end it and really notably Conan went one. His final battle into Conan the bar Burien film by cutting off the head of an evil wizard named bolsa doom and doom is actually from literature. I think he actually predates Conan but doom at ordered Conan to be crucified that didn't stop Conan from coming back. Conan's got a bit of a Jason tendency that way he took out his army and cut off the wizards head and just showed it to all his followers. So cutting off Jason's head would not only be a simple matter. But it's usually what Conan tries to do right away. And in Jason goes to hell Jason dies again after he's riddled with bullets and then blown up with a grenade. So decapitation or cutting Jason two pieces would finish him off if not permanent permanently. He'd stay dead for you know, it could be months years. He could lie. Dormant and Conan would be wandering off somewhere else on his next adventure. But Conan to finish off this Halloween edition of boo would win not a thing. Okay. We'll find out Conan has many ways to defeat Jason and walkaway safely. But crystal I gotta lay the smackdown now normal people manage to walk away safely from Jason voorhees in every appearance. He makes by the end of the movie they've gotten away from him. And if normal people like, you know, preteen Tommy Jarvis can defeat Jason and walkaway safely. I'm in Conan's, not going to have a problem. He conquers gods. Immortals monsters dragons and armies by himself Jason just has no way to put Conan down and finish him in this battle Conan walkaway with his victory secured. And that's my final point. Counter. Does anybody else like wanna see this as a as a or a movie, I think it would be a great franchise? One hundred percent. I agree with that. I don't know. What do you think of my point James? I have some issues with it number one j does Conan bleed. Do you need? That you win. Do you beat? Yeah. He believes he's been crucified. Exactly. All right. And has Conan never been knocked out. You know, James I can't account for his state of consciousness from nineteen thirty two till today. Really? Because you can you. You seem to have other really cool examples of him doing stuff has he ever been knocked out ever been defeated in a fight. Just wonder I again, I can't account for night from nineteen thirty two to today. I know like big groups of guys funny. How the internet is. It's funny how the internet works in your favor like that. I'm very impressed with that has so Conan has been knocked out in one issue. He is actually kinda comical he got so drunk. He ran into a wall and not because he was so drunk. That sounds fairly competent as a fighter he's been captured. He has been defeated. And you know, as everyone has and again, he was captured not by an army in. I think it was going on the bar Burien. But by actually, not a monster group of people, but a good it was a good group of people. And he was nailed crucified to the tree of woe was that it and he had to be freed by his friend was super tires something really cool and came by did it. I'm not saying I wouldn't have gotten out himself. Maybe but it he was free. Thanks to his teammate, or friend. Or what have you also? Let's talk about what happens when Jason loses his machete. So in Freddie versus Jason. If the last fight team is pretty awesome. Jason does lose his machete. Freddie, actually takes it from him. Freddie is shown to be really strong, really capable competent fighter. So without machete. Jason starts to tear into Freddie's body literally and stab into him with his hands and start ripping stuff out. So yeah, the machete school, but he doesn't need even though you probably prefers it. And you know, the thing is Jason has upgrades in every film. Right. So you know, what could have killed him in the first three to four films all of a sudden that ain't gonna work anymore. You know, the way he was taken out whether films it doesn't work. He's kind of like the sayings from dragon ball z. Right. Jay Vega, defeated they come back stronger from the defeat that seems to be the trend with Jason's. Well, so one last question the what if is you mentioned for Konan? What percentage would you say that what if she was of the totality of that character's? You know, life or were history like zero point one percent. That's. All impossible question to answer. I mean about. Yes, it is because comic book characters have floating timelines and Conan is one who has been in his thirties since nineteen thirty two. So I don't know how to answer that question got it. But then he came back in the future transport to the future or relative future with the present day marvel universe in. I think also he did something cool with something with the x men or what have you anyway? So cool. Yeah. I I agree with you a hundred percent. So that's why I have no choice, but to bring up your favorite character in the Jason films. Jay, but Hoover Jason. So for these past few points, and we talked about this in the before math episode. Jay did not want. Uber. Jason to come. Explain this his, and Chris I was ready to go with it and go with another point, but Jay has used and he used them really well instances of floating timelines of instances of that don't even really count within Conan's history. Because it's a what if thing it's not exactly cannon. But it's a fluid history. And I'm absolutely that sounds great. So now, I feel justified in bring up Hoover Jason who appeared in Jason x for a good percentage of that movie, crystal. How do you feel about that? Okay. I'm only going by Jake by Jay's example, I don't see how I did anything close to the same thing. I've yeah, I'm kind of going to have to agree with Jay on that. Because what I'm hearing from J as far as all the examples that he's used there. It's been one consistent. It's been a very long version of Conan. But it hasn't been like a different Conan. It's been fairly consistent wrong. That's what I thought too K J. So you Conan was from you mentioned Conan from the marvel series and Conan from the original books. Correct. Well, listen there under the marvel like publish books are not in nineteen the ones released in nineteen seventy take place in Conan's world from nineteen thirty two. So marvel wasn't around in nineteen thirty two different different iterations. Marvel was not in the picture until they signed the property in nineteen seventy and they kept him in his Maria. I can't say that word. I don't Samaria but in any event. Yeah. I mean, he's still like Conan of that world. And in the what if comics they just show what if you took that Conan and put him up against this captain America. So you took him from the books, and then you took him from marvel I'm not saying wrong with that by the way, and then you allowed future timelines and variations of Coney. I did write that yet. You did with the what if he's in the few now it was it was Conan in another time line. Yes, it was not the future of his world that we're going to get really into it now. So I mean, it was in a possible future. I'm just saying he's he's all over the place. And no issue with that at all. But I the sa- I didn't you do different ration-. It's the same character in the same name with the same feats just put into a different time line two different companies, who cares who publishes the book. Okay. Cool. So then who cares who makes the film? You guys and this is the same. This is the same character not from two different company. If you want to argue that he can be Uber. Jason for one thing. That's breaking the rules. We agreed previously that we will go by the name of the character and the established name of that. Character is Uber. Jason not Jason voorhees, you'd have to give some kind of reason that Jason would be able to become Uber Jason and the circumstances just don't exist. So you've been arguing king Conan Conan the district yet Conan the destroyer. I didn't mention when he didn't mention the things he did when he became king Conan like beat up leviathan and beat up a giant squid and a Creighton as well, I never mentioned those in the destroyer Conan the Barbier. Those are nicknames of lickin Scott are they okay? So let's be infect nicknames. Or are they different versions of the character? As far as I know their nicknames titles. It's like saying spider-man's the web Slinger say it's like saying. Uber. Jason who is Jason literally mostly Jason. Well, that's debatable. That's debatable. But how does he have the nano butts in this fight? I see where are see what you're saying. James might issue is that this version of Conan the J has argued while it has been all over very many timelines, and it has been different interests. It a rations of him. It's been a fairly consistent Conan. So if you can tell me how the Jason that you've been arguing for the last three points. Suddenly gets these Netto bites. I would be inclined to allow for Jason it. Okay. Which in the before Mathis guys secondary point, which may in my opinion. I think is I like this better than Uber. Jason. So let's do it j Sandline your whining and your posturing. What's what's going on right now? No the before math before in before meth when did we discuss we had a Twitter conversation this morning. What did you ask me not to do J? Hang on. Let me get my wording. I didn't ask you not to do anything. I asked you a question. So I could know what to prepare for. I said. I can't find it. I got it is this fun to listen to for anybody right now. I don't know. This is behind the sweating it a little bit. You're sweating a little bit. I guess you were sweating the times. You've asked me about points. I plan to make before debates because you know, that never happens, right? No, no. I totally ask you. But then I go with it. I said, hey, James are so all I said, this isn't a public thing with our other collaborators crystal solid to just said, hey, James, you're not gonna use that Jason X, are you? That's that. Is that is he said, hey, Jay recite Jason isn't going to play a role here is easy. And then J went onto the reasons that Jay has given this entire show as to why he did not think that Jason X should be allowed. That's how the conversation wet. Good. Well, here's my decision on this. Here's my decision on this the moderator to me has the ruling. So if you say, no, I'm good with it. I'm gonna go back. If you can convince me why how Jason gets these Nanhai tes in this fight in this chance encounter. I would be inclined to allow it. If you cannot I'm going to have to say that it's it's a it's a completely different character that you're debating, I don't know how I can how can allow that on the battlefield. No. I will admit that. There's not a basic way for that. And I cannot allow this version of Jason if you have argued this version today shin the entire fight like that's the version more inclined. But it was not. So I can't allow that important number for co. I love to do these kind of things as why loved these debates. I love to kind of say, cool, you're doing this is this great. So here's wild do that. But it's all good. So here's my other point point number four Conan is a bully. He is now for those who don't know wrote a book on. Bullying anti bullying, I should say, I don't I didn't actually write a book on how to be a boy, I wrote a book on anti bullying and Conan as Couva character. He has he has a lot of the trademarks of a bully in short. He likes to acquire power at someone else's expense. We've seen that a lot. He likes to rise and get positions of power kill people above him. So he can serve their position. And this is part of the character. Now, look at Jason's mindset, he acts like an eleven year old kind of even liberal boy, I know that because I kind of the mindset boy, and if an eleven year old boy who has super powers and one revenge against bullies who responsible for his death, all of a sudden came up against the alpha male bully of all time. What do you think would happen? So what would Jason do if it was facing this Altima bullying Conan? What would Jason do if he was really motivated to kill someone? And this is interesting I tried to figure out. Psychology of Jason, which may be a stupid thing to do. But I'm like, okay. How does he figure this out? What is Jason's motivation? So j what is Jason motivation? We started killing people to please his, mommy. She much special special. Boy, there you go. Right. So if and how did he die because some camp counselors that were supposed to be watching him were having sex in the woods, and they let him get thrown in the lake and drown 'cause they weren't watching him by the bullies. Yes. By the bullies. There we go exactly. So think about it crystal how how much more effective let's say you had to fight someone how much more effective. Would you be? If you were like motivated like hell personally to go after that guy, or that's harder. Oh, interesting. Okay. Cool. So all of a sudden Conan's are Jason facing the ultimate bully in Conan. Right. And remember when he's going after people, you know could be because he's going out. You know, his mom spirit, or is memory of his mom, whatever. But I think he's just doing it. Because that's what a demented psychopathic eleven year old just kind of does. Anyway, like he likes to play with his prey the whole thing. All of a sudden he's facing off against someone who is really in his. The appear to me of all his problems Ang's why he died in the first place what he thinks gonna happen. You don't just imagine a pissed off super-motivated Jason facing off against Conan and Conan has one weakness, by the way, only one week as I can really tell it's era this towards steal significant specifically a steel sword in his hand. And I think I read this quote somewhere where he says. Something along the lines that there is nothing the universe that can't be stopped by steel sword will guess what can overcome a steel sword? That's Jason a motivated Jason who's pissed off against the ultimate bully and wants to take him out. And that's my point number four. Wow. It's good. It's good. I like the psychology of the fighters interesting. Yeah. I mean, I have to counter point by saying none of that would apply by the time. We get to the Jason that were arguing that might apply to like young Jason. But at the point that we're arguing and James is already admitted he's been through so many incarnations. I don't think he has those emotions anymore to feel that sense of motivation. He doesn't do anything motivated. You see him walking? I think if he really isn't it worse to go around killing children than being a bully. I'm not saying being a believes that. That's he actually it's funny. No, no. It's funny. It's funny. You brought that up. Jason doesn't go out. He might go after like older teenagers. He doesn't go. Well, I'm considering teenagers children. Okay. No. He a really Coenen hasn't killed teenagers. He when he was a teenager. He probably killed other teenagers. But if people are really he's in war and there's no teenagers in that. In the army. He's checks all their ideas before the battle. Of course, it does. Of course, he does. So I think it's going to be the other way around and Conan's going to be like, hey, you're messing with kids out here at the lake. Why don't you pick on me now possibly, but you gotta remember the psychology which really it's interesting because it's not really focused on in the films, and it should be because it's a really cool thing. He he's a kid himself. He doesn't go after like little little kids. Remember, he's walking around Manhattan and didn't go after kids for some reason while he was there for like, fifteen minutes. But what do you think crystal? I think this is a very interesting fight because this is a fight between. I feel like two characters that have never really fought this type of opponent before. So here's how this fight really comes down for me after looking at everybody's durability and strength levels, and what they can do and this that and the other for me trying to decide this fight is whether or not Conan can cut off Jason's head before Jason literally rips Conan apart 'cause I see that happening. And I'm going to have to say that I think Conan Ken. I think Conan. Even with Jason's like creepy little stealth stuff that he does where he literally just kinda peers in front of you. I think Conan can edge out a win here. But it's really this is really close like really really close. But because Conan kind of has that warrior thing going for him where he can move and fight a little bit better. I think that he can I think that he can take Jason out before Jason murders him. But again, this one this is really really close because Jason does have that kind of supernatural kit killing thing going for him. But I'm going to I'm going to eke out the wind on this one to Conan. He saw adventure in distant plans and the jeweled songs of the host beneath his handled. I'm actually good with that decision. I'll tell you why. Because the one area it's not super strength again. Contel? I didn't I didn't buy the super strength either. Yeah. No. But what I do think we're Conan is completely superior to Jason is fighting Techni. Yeah. I mean, it's not even close. It's like again your rolled angry psychopathic with a machete right versus the ultimate warrior. You know of his time and the best and agrees the best swordsman our swords person of his time as well. Combine those two things he'll survive who he might take some punishment. He'll survive, but his his fighting capability and weapons proficiency. That's what's gonna win the fight. I feel I feel like if Conan does not take down Jason very quickly. Jason is literally just going to rip him apart, which would be growth. Well, james. I I gotta tell you. I gotta tell you something James. Are you ready? I want you to listen very closely. If you had used the Uber Jason your arguments. Yes, I still would have won this show. They actually actually here's why you wouldn't have tell you why. Because the reason why is because when in Jason x when Jason's I like taken out before the Nanno parts come into a system, it's advanced weaponry and a really super powerful super fighter type of Android who takes him out. And then once he gets upgraded that superannuation the super weaponry doesn't do anything. He gets shot in a space where they get the ship is on blows up he shot into space. He survived survived space. Absolutely fine. It's a completely is not even an upgrade is complete like new version. It's still him mostly. But it's it's a new version. I'm okay with him not being used in this. But I will say was Uber. Jason I'd go with him over qualify defended. Jason I would have tried to bring an Uber. Just the same. It's all good. Great minds, think alike. Guys, we're gonna. Get to the aftermath show. So awesome debate. Love what you did with Conan. You didn't proud. I love Conan the brain. And I absolutely always respected decisions of the amazing crystal's storm. So with that being said, crystal television where they can find you on this weekend at twitch Khan. And I'm already going to meet up with one of our who would win fans there. So if you're going to be in San Jose, California area do hit me up and there'll be lots of pictures from twitch con over at my Twitter at writer streamer or you can pick me at my website in the mind of crystal storm dot com. Very cool N Jason where can people find you online? And Jay where could people find you? Find me on Twitter and Facebook at J Sandline writer and over the next week. I'm going to be going to you've seen me going to a lot of comic shops and some other places where we've been promoting who would win our live shows on November the sixth the Nashville at zanies comedy club. November the seventh in Huntsville stand up live out to defend captain America with James and Batman, you can get tickets at who. Win show dot com. Very cool. And you can find me posing my pattern question of the day on Twitter at James gase. Feel free to check out the website at who had wind show dot com to access all of our podcast episodes as well. To check out some great articles written by myself, Jay Salen and crystal storm and don't forget the check out the one patriot aftermath segment available exclusively to our patrons. Where we'll be talking about all kinds of good stuff with our battles and actually talking about howling costumes as well that we'd just this year. We have myself Jason Lee amazing personal storm. Thank you. Once again for listening to another episode of who would win will see next time.