1 Episode results for "Jason Snell Snow"
329: The Stale Hot Dog Industry
"Relay fm. this is upgrade episode. Three hundred twenty nine. Today's show is brought to you by door. Dash kiwi co and any pizza ovens. My name is mike hurley. And i'm joined by the one and only jason snell snow. It's me me the one and only me my curly. It's good to join the one. And only mike early till you know what i have realized. I've realized this Because i had Upgrade plus right. So i go in and i removed the ads from the episode. So when i do that. I get to hear a lot when i start a new topic with you right uh-huh and i have noticed that i typically will say jason snell. An edge used to topic. I don't know why i call you. Jason snell. I don't know i don't know either. It's just a thing that you wanted to those to name people to me. You know like. That's the second thing i don't know why i it. I don't ever think of you jason. Snell i'm one of those two people think when we have kind of regular conversation akkuyu jason snell. No i don't jason just did it now. So who knows. I don't know why why you do that. Mike early or strange. Who could tell who could tell. We have a hash. Snell toll cash. Jason snell talk question. Thank you from sir stack to name. People thought which new color do you want. A which color should return to a model of iphone ipad or mac book. So if you could choose jason which color would you pick to on a future. Product i. Would i just bought a space gray macbook air am. I've said this before. I'll say it again. I wanna blue computer. Computer million orange computer would be good to. I would like colors to return to the computers like the macbook air would be just blew antedates. Aluminum do it. It's it's done in an ipad as well and they already make a blue iphone. So i'm i'm pretty pretty good there. Yeah yeah yeah. But i just and other of colors are available right you if you like. Green sure applicant make a green. I'm not gonna use a green computer but you could and that'd be fine. I just think again. I just want color. But if i had to choose blue and orange you're going to be the ones i choose because i like those colors. The best everybody gets their own colors. I like those. I'm going to cheat a little bit. I i want to bring back the nanna chromatic color line which was a i. Think apple's favorite selection of colas which was four one of the ipod nanos the campaign around. It was nanno chromatic. That was the wedding that they used and they had they had a blackened silva but they had purple blue green yellow orange pink and red and they were fantastic colours. They kind of covered all of the classic ipod mini ones and added a few more in pumped up the vibrancy and all of them I really loved those colors. This'll so they made a great ad for that. Actually which i will put in the show notes in case you wanna see it but that that's the that's the colors i would love to see personally. Really go for it. That's a lot of colors. It's a lot of colors but one person i know i don't disagree. I love it if you'd like to send in a question to help us answer to help open a show. Just send in a tweet with the hashtag. Snell talk or relax. Fem members discord question mark. Snow talk we'll get you in to document for future selection as some follow up for you. Jason snell god. I'm sorry my head about now. I don't know why i said i knew i did it. If i were just kept it to myself. I wouldn't be thinking about it so much but here we are. Applications are open for the app store. Small business program which was something we spoke about las week and apple basically opened the program up now so people can get their applications and in time so they'll be All of their revenue accounted the fifteen percent from january first. They published an faq on the website. What i like is most of the frequently asked questions that i have seen on not not not at all dealt with in the frequently asked questions section which is funny to me One of the main ones being right something we spoke about a bunch which is like what would you do. What are you going to do if you get close to that million dollar line. Will you pour your app kind of stuff. I people hoping apple would provide a little bit more clarity to to try and tidy that up. But they haven't and i don't think they will. I think this is a thing that's just needs to be put back on the developer. You plan your business that way. And i think that's kind of the way that apple's treating it. Yeah i think so right like you know you know it's the thing right so you kind of just have to deal with it. I don't know if you if you are one of those developers and the probably not a lot who are right at the one million line. You're yeah you're gonna have to figure out a strategy there. Do you sell one of your apps. do you buy some apps and just go for it. I don't know what happens there. But it's an interesting problem to have. And i feel for those for those companies that are in that little cutoff area but i would also say making close to a million dollars. A year is a great problem to have it. Depends on the business right. That's a couple of people. It's great if it's you know ten people it's not great. Yep but if it's ten people you making a million dollars a year. You have a lot more problems than apple. Sixteen percent through true story. We have one more room kinda clarification really meanchey chico. So quo Issued another kind of note in the last few days kind of revising some of the predictions that we spoke about las time so the tune new macbook pro models that made she quo has been talking about launching In twenty twenty one well now both feature many led displays quotas saying so the which is which is interesting we don't have any Refinements on timelines but it seems like it could. Potentially these products might come sooner rather than later as has increased His forecast for how many of these products will get sold in. Twenty twenty one. So there's a couple of reasons do that one if they were popular which could be or two. If you're saying him sooner in the erode and later in the year but these products getting many led is is called saint possible but this is now kind of drawing a line there but that was one of a note which was of great interest saying that there would be a more affordable mac book air with many led display on sale as well more. It's already apple's most affordable laptop right at at which lowest prices what we mean by more affordable. I wonder what he it but yeah it. Does that mean the map. Bulgars going to be eight ninety nine or seven ninety nine something that would be. That'd be great. In terms of reaching a broader audience and selling that book errors the interesting contrast with also adding mini led screen. At that time. This many led being you know. Not ole et more capable of doing kind of lead like Quality in terms of Contrast in hdr kind of stuff. I don't know if it interesting starting to focus. And i know we're going to talk a little bit more about another report later on about this but twenty twenty one now. The twenty twenty almost over. I guess it's time to start talking about twenty twenty one and what's gonna happen. We're basically in twenty twenty one now. This point pretty pretty close. I mean i don't know. Mike are we i mean. Do we really know for sure that apple's done releasing new products. No so this is fun. This is weird. Okay so depending on when you're listening to this episode this will all this might make varying levels of sense so there is a rumor circulating this week boy. In the policy days that apple will be releasing something on tuesday. The eighth of five thirty. Am part time so to pending a when you're listening to this show you will even knowing if for if not says happened. This came from a couple of different sources as a reliable twit talita who goes by the handle. I love to dream who's been talking about There being some kind of christmas surprise and then there was an internal memo to the apple cat team which was picked up by nine to five mac and others does saying that apple care presented his need to quote prepare for a new product excuse new or updated product descriptions and new or updated product pricing. So i saw considering. I reckon most of our audience probably listening to this. After it's happened that it would be fun if we made predictions of what. We thought that this might be okay. We are all waiting for an upgrade to the apple. Tv box itself right. Everybody's been waiting for that. Seems like a strange time to do it. But i mean on the other hand. Maybe it doesn't matter. But i i don't know if they can use it to promote apple tv plus or something. We've got fitness. Still to come and apple. Tv is one of the ways you integrate with. You can integrate with fitness. So i wonder if they might be doing something as sort of one two punch so you get an apple. Tv and you get the fitness. Plus thing. I don't know it's possible like it's been hanging out there. The the prospect of new apple tv hardware for a while. If they've got a story to tell it's always we say about apple like it's about the story that they're trying to tell a lot of times product releases and the timing and what gets released together is about apple trying to tell a story not just say. Here's a new box to buy. I'll also still think could be possible that it'd be episodes related. It could for sure and there are all sorts of other wacky things and christmas surprise. I mean it could be over ear. Airpods could be airtags. It could be all the products that they haven't ship that we say. Why are they not shipping or could be something unexpected and not what we traditionally think of addict right. I think it is like if you listen to this before tuesday to kind of set. People's expectations is going to be a small thing. Whatever it is. I think because there's no event i haven't heard anyone that knows. Anyone knows anyone that has any products right like this. Seems like it could be if it's going to be anything. It's accessory related or kind of small. Yes in that regard. I think that's right like small revision to thing like apple. Tv is not to be that different. The middle of what they do. I expect what might even be more about an upgrade for hardware and then the lower end hardware changes price. And it's really the story is that you can now get into apple. Tv for this price or you know it's little stuff like that more or it's an accessory product. I think that's right anything else though. Any of want predictions. You might wanna make. I'm gonna make a dumb prediction based on the smell. Talk questioned earlier and say product red macbook air. Jojo ou interesting. I write something. Like that is what i was getting at with with things. That aren't quite products but are announcements. Something like that where there was like a you know a holiday edition of something or something like that. That's another way you could go and just roll something out. And i don't know my only of Would be some kind of mag safe battery case. Sure because that's the mac safe stuff authority battery case stuff and headphones stuff like apples and stuff. These are things they have released late in the year. We've just press releases in the past. If if there's even a press release also but i would love to see. I'd love to see a product read more and they just did just Double down on their product. Red campaign stuff right apple just released a big thing about that. Some knows voting nominations for the twenty. Twenty upgrade is still open. We've had over six hundred up gradients making the nomination so far. Make sure you join them by going to upgrades vote. And there'll be a link in the show notes and a nomination form go in select the things that you want to nominate. Maybe if your favorite apps your favorite media some of her favorite tech stories of the favorite products that the vote for as many these categories as you wish please go check it out and help us prepare for the seventh annual upgrade. He's which is going to be happening on monday. December twenty eighth is going to be the Seventh annual upgrades. So we're wool. Even close voting. either the eighteenth or sometime in christmas week so make sure that you get it in now. Probably on next week's on announced the closing date for votes. It kinda depends on how many we have because the more votes we have the longer it takes me two papering it together so you know it's kind of like a i would. I would really love affair ricky. Get their votes in sooner rather than later so i know exactly went to close in. But that's that's kind of the we know it's going to be on the twenty eighth though so you have that to look forward to to round out your yeah end on a high note indeed how much higher and note could be could it be. The knee upgrades not higher than that. Mike hurley. This episode of upgrade is brought to you by any pizza ovens only is the world's number one pizza oven company. They make surprisingly small evans powered by your choice of either wood. Charcoal or gas letting you make shrunk quality pizza in your very own backyard. Any pizza ovens a super easy to use. And they're incredibly portable. They're going to fit into any outside space mooney. Pizza ovens can reach temperatures of up to nine hundred degrees fahrenheit five hundred degrees celsius which enables you to cook restaurant quality pizza in as little as sixty seconds. It is that high temperature the separate sees pieces from those. You can make in your own home oven. One of the most popular models is the unique code. Sixteen just a gas powered oven and can cook up to sixteen inch pizzas with the innovative l-shaped burner that at the back that gives you even heat distribution throughout the oven for making that perfect pizza pizza oven start from just two hundred and forty nine dollars. Free shipping to the us uk and the eu with one of their vote popular models being the multi. Fueled unique car. Which can use wood charcoal gas. But they have a whole line that you can go and look at yourself and pick the right pizza oven for your home when he also make a fantastic app to help you. Perfect your door recipe and give you loads of pizza making tips. I would like to ask pizza aficionado. Mr jason snell to give his thoughts on the pizza oven. It's so much fun to have an oven. That's that gets this hot because you know. I can bake pizza in my own gas oven. But it's five hundred. Degrees is about as high as it gets. Fahrenheit and oni goes way higher than that. And that's what you want is and it's got it comes with. Its own pizza stone as the base of what you want to do is heat it up really hot you get the stone really hot and then you can put the pizza on and the stone is baking the crust on the bottom and the the flame on the top is going very quickly melt the cheese and kind of like crisp up the top and you can bake in very short amount of time. It's a it's very clever. And it's it gives you more power and gives you sort of more of the feeling of something you get at a restaurant. That's got one of those fancy pizza ovens that you probably didn't install yourself in your house but you can get one with the union you get that same effect listen. This show can get ten percent of their purchase of any pizza oven which is up to fifty dollars off. Unico sixteen just go to o i dot com and use. The code upgrade ten at checkout also make a great range of accessories from peels to cause of tables. This could be a great gift for someone over the holiday season. But only have one us to tell you that They're very likely run out before the holidays. So act fast. Maybe they'll be a holiday pizza for you this year. Ernie pizza ovens are the best way to bring restaurant quality pizza to your own backyard. Go to unique dot com and use the code upgrade ten as upgrade one zero for ten percent off a thanks to peace ovens for their support of this show. So we're gonna do a bit of a extended upstream. I thank for this week. More in talking about a lodge topic rather than yams. Which is that h bureau. Max is getting all the movies. All movies wanna media announced that all of their twenty twenty one movies will appear on. Hbo max on the intended cinematic release dates worded this very peculiar very particularly because i kept seeing this headline which is very funny and confusing. Which was that one. Immediate would release all of the two thousand twenty one movies simultaneously on hbo. Max which makes it sound like movies are coming same time. Binge watch so seventeen movies were dropping them on april fourth and one month it. But no they're going to be coming out on the same days the either wilby in cinemas expected to be cinemas depending on where you are in the world injured. These movies will spend thirty one days on the service from when they are permeated. This'll be at no extra charge for. Hbo max subscribe. It's the seventeen movies. Include suicide squad. The matrix four dune godzilla vs kong space jam new legacy tom and jerry mortal combat in the heights which is a musical from lomar out of in turned into a movie and the many saints of newark which is surprise prequel which is a movie i didn't know existed and i'm very excited about. This is huge news. The it's complicated right. And there are a lot of simple takes out there and i think upstream listeners. Know that it's complicated because we've walked through so many of these points before there. There are a lot of things going on here right so first off is the destruction of especially in the us the theatrical market. It's gone and with the current covid nineteen stats. It's not gonna come back very fast even with vaccinations. I think what they said is they. Were looking at calendar. Twenty twenty one and trying to guess what would what percentage of normal would the box office be in two thousand twenty one and you know even if there are places that are coming back and vaccines are going out and things are going down. They tried to imagine well how many people are going to go to a movie theater in the summer of two thousand twenty one and the answer is still like fifty percent thirty percent sixty percent. I don't know but it's certainly not one hundred percent or ninety percent or even eighty percent. I would think i think it's gonna be a long build and i think they decided to just say we're going to write off twenty twenty one theatrical there will be some and we will play to whatever is there but we. They've decided that they're going to instead. Use their twenty twenty one slate plus wonder woman to build. Hbo max which they want. They've invested a lot of money in and they want to be a real player in the streaming space and they've had a struggle launching it. Think stat that i saw. That was the biggest struggle. Is that some enormous number of americans with cable pay for hbo and they get hbo max with their cable subscription. Hbo they get it. I get it i pay comcast for. Hbo and i get hbo. Max there's a huge number of those people like sixty seventy percent. I forget the number. It's very large. Who have never signed up for. Hbo maks so that's a challenge right like they can't even get people for whom. Bmx is free to make an effort to get it. So this is an interesting move right because this is a hbo. And and warner saying if you wanna watch all of these movies all you have to do is sign up for this streaming service and we're gonna roll out. You know full on theatrical releases of movies every month throughout from christmas twenty twenty through twenty twenty one and use that as a driver to make. Hbo macs more appealing. And then once. They're there the whole ideas. Yeah some people are going to just subscribe for a month and then canceled. But a lot of people won't and that's the goal is to build up people and let them see the rest of the service and grow. Hbo max and set it off in a direction and so they're going to spend a lot of money basically buying out the theatrical side in order to and losing money on these movies frankly in order to build up what they hope. Long-term is this big subscription base for. Hbo max so it's it's a it's a it's a huge move but the pandemic makes it an easier move than it would have ever been right like you and i have talked before about the question of how do you do this. How do you make the move and say we have to be more aggressive with streaming. And i'm not sure if theatrical releases make as much economic sense as they used to. It's a very difficult thing. It's a lot easier when you look at calendar thousand twenty one say. There's no way that theaters are going to be in the. Us at least are going to be any even a fraction. And do we wanna hold all of our movies till twenty twenty two. We don't and we just launched. Hbo max so now is the time. Let's just do it and it's an aggressive move and they're going to spend a lot of money on this but if they really want. Hbo max to be a thing. I think they need to do stuff like this. So i understand why they're doing it. There will be no more free trials of hbo banks. It was on the a seven day trial anyway. But they've nixed that Before wonder woman comes out that i get that is like yes. Probably a good idea. Yeah no it makes sense. Their this is their strategy. Now this is. They're not their original. Hbo max launch strategy. It's the one they found. Which is we got a movie studio. We have a pandemic where movies are not really able to be released in our home market. We're just gonna roll this out and we're going to use our movie studios releases to drive subscriptions to our streaming service. And they have the power to do that because they own. Both and and we are in a moment where they can do that i. It's interesting too because you know some of the theatres have pushed back and and complained about it and said well. We don't know if we'll carry their movies anymore and things like that. Which makes me roll my eyes a little bit because one side has all the power here and it's the studios. It's not the theater. It's such it's such lake reverse thinking to where it's like it would be damaging to us. We are upset because it's damaging to us if you pull your movies out of athena's so now we're also going to ban those movies. You double down on yourself. Also they're not pulling the movies out of the theaters right. If they're theaters exhibiting the movies. They will exhibit them in that window and people can choose to go to the theaters which seems like the worst model like you can. You can watch it in home or you can go out to a big movie theater if you're comfortable and you want to see it on a screen with great sound and all of that and have that positive experience you can do that. But the truth is they. They you know they had to make this move. I think i think this is a smart move. I think it's a gamble but given where theatrical is going to be in the near future and it does call into question the whole like what is what. What is the movie theater world look like in. Let's say twenty twenty two as things come back especially in the us. So i think the answer is very different from what it looked like in two thousand nineteen. That's just going to be a fact i'm unclear. I'm not entirely convinced that this model is going to persist. Hbo says it's not going to persist. Warner says this is just for twenty twenty one. I think what we get to in two thousand twenty two is going to be different from two thousand nineteen. But i'm not sure it's going to look like this where giant hundreds of millions of dollars blockbusters can be seen on day one in a movie theater or on your streaming service. I'm not sure that's where they end up. Maybe it is but certainly the windows are going to be a lot smaller for. If there's any window at all i think the genie's out of the ball. Now i think so. I think he's going to particularly interesting later. this week. Disney have their investors call. And so you would expect them to do all say something which is also along these lines. Don't think by any stretch of the imagination. They are going to do what one or have done. You know you've got very different. Mix you've got here. Like disney plus has like seventy million subscribers said. I don't need to to try and get more right like yes. Hbo maximum is like eight. Well disney built. Its service on that library right especially the stuff that they they had previously withheld and they put it all in and that was at the time we talked about it. Kind of a big move for disney to be like. There's no disney volt. The disney volt is now disney plus. It's all there and that was a big step for them But warriner doesn't have quite that that cash in and then they of course have contracts where they've sold a bunch of their stuff out to other services and it'll be years before they get it back but this is something they can try. But i think that once. So here's here's my question with a studio makes this decision. So one has made his decision. Disney is doing is dipping their toe in the water right like they have milan which you could pay for. They have sole which is going to be available for free I'm sure they'll have covers if you start doing this. Can you stop doing this. I think so. I just said who knows what twenty twenty two looks like but i think it will be very hard. I think we're gonna maybe. I'm wish casting a little bit. But i think the theatrical model of the future is going to be. That movies are available in theaters but exclusivity is either not an issue or a minor issue. That the reason you go to a movie theater is because it's a night out and the screen is huge and the sound is good and they'll bring you food and drink and you can have a good time with your friends and you're enjoying a movie with an audience and it's it's a theatrical experience. As opposed to an again. I apologize if there are any movie theater operators out there but like so much of the movie theater. Experience in modern times is lousy. It's literally you can't see this anywhere else. So we've provided a crappy theater with not very good screen and not very good sound and an. It's sort of an unpleasant experience. You wanna escape as quickly as you can But because we're the only game in town you have to come and give us money in order to watch this movie. And that was a bad experience already and i think going forward. It's not going to be good enough and movie theaters. That do the bare minimum are not going to make it. And we're going to end up in a situation where people will still go to movie theaters. But it won't be driven by this artificial exclusivity of the only place you can see. It is in our little lousy theater that it'll be it'll be you know you had to choose to go. It'll have the movie theater will be place you you need to want to go to it. I think that's going to be the big difference. Because i do think it will be very hard for the audience to like. I'm gonna watch wonder woman on christmas day in four k. hdr because they upgraded hbo. Max finally going to get four k. Hdr support on my sixty five inch tv. Not everybody has a big tv like that. And everybody's got difference but like people have way better stuff even if it's on your phone honestly sometimes the experience is going to be bigger and better in all of these cases than it wouldn't necessarily be in a lousy movie theater. It's going to be hard to go back. i. I am a home movie person. That is my decision. I will go to the cinema. Maybe once or twice a year to catch that movie. That i feel i couldn't wait for is typically a big disney blockbuster and it's the case of like well if you don't see it now everyone's spoil it for you right so you if you if you care about this property you should go and see it and frankly. I'm not sure that that is a relationship that i care too much about. You know like like kind of it doesn't really seem like that's the thing. That's the reason is enough to make me care about going to the theater. Like i appreciate that. This is obviously a huge industry and there are people who are struggling but he is an industry that needs to change and has needed to change for decades. Because everybody knows that too expensive. They charge too much money for all of the things that they want you to buy. And you're kind of and they actively at this disallow you from bringing your own food and drink in. Well that's how they make their money. But the here's the problem with it is. The experience isn't very good. That's that's the truth of it is not only. Is it expensive. But it's expensive for one of those hot dogs. That's on the little metal roller thing exactly players and stuff like that. But you go to the really nice boutique cinemas where they have food great you and i and a bunch of people we know for your bachelor party. We went to avengers infinity. War at alamo draft house in austin we own. We sat together we well. Yeah i know we knew what was coming. We'd are already seen it but like we're in audience and we're all we got food and we have beer and like it was so much fun i would love. I would do that. I would do that kind of experience. a lot. But the warmed-over hotdog and kind of crappy popcorn for a lot of money to sit in a kind of badly cleaned threadbare movie theater. That isn't you know that in the sound isn't very good like it's not the best and that's so yeah i i'm just going to say it. I think those kinds of movie theaters need to go out of business. And i think that the movie theater industry needs to focus on a better experience and that i think people will pay to go see it as a better experience but i think that that's what they're going to try to do now. Maybe there will be a window. Like i see it because you thinking about marketing to you you make as a movie theater or as a movie studio you make this huge investment in marketing for your product and then with the windows along that you've got to make that investment again when it goes to streaming or when it's available for rent on you know on all the rental platforms video-on-demand platforms. It's a lot so one of the arguments about making the window way smaller. Is you only have to do one marketing campaign so you say wonder woman. Eighty four or the matrix for and it's coming. Maybe it's coming to theaters and everybody knows that in theaters exclusively for a week or two weeks but that's it and it's on streaming. Yeah you got it there. I agree with you. That seems like properly the way it's going to go. But i think even that kills the theory industry because who cares enough. How many movies really do people care enough about. Yesterday they will go to now like the idea of like the the movie theater for dates for things for friends to do that. Kind of thing in theory was in theory will continue. But i'm just not sure that this industry is one of the industries that continues in the post covid walled like restaurants mo- problem right like once. The restaurant industry can get back on his feet again. People are not going to stop going to restaurants. I don't believe that right. That will be changes to the industry like something that's happened in a of metropolitan areas and i hope continues is like a similar idea. Which is they will send you their ingredients and you cook at home. Which is like i guess the the only link analogous the may have home. We'll have it in the place but it's still nice to have in the place because the restaurant industry is based around providing you a nice experience and taking all of the walk away from it right but the majority of the movie cinema theater industry is providing you that not great experience but locking away the thing that you want and the only way you can get it for months is to go to them and i'm not sure that that is a thing that's going to happen. I i really don't think so. Yeah i and it. It's going to have to. Obviously it's going to have to work itself out and there's gonna be pain and there's going to be failure. There's going to be success and the industry is going to kind like change. But i think the truth is you would never invent an industry to look like this. You wouldn't you wouldn't know it's one that adapts over time becomes greedy and the in the chat room pointing out that the stale hotdog industry and the people who make the little rollers. It's going to be tough time for them. It's going to be different and and there are different things right like if you are in a small town or something like that like you're not gonna have that super high quality theatre necessarily although i grew up in a small town and we had a five screen movie theater originally was a two screen movie theater and the ad three tiny awful screens and i keep thinking like maybe in the end. The story is that the that movie theater ends up having to really to better screens so people can have a really nice experience. But the other thing is it does provide access to movies and streaming has already done this to movies that you wouldn't otherwise see 'cause you don't have movie theater nearby or you don't have a good movie theater nearby and now you can just watch the movie instead of this weird monopoly. Where the cheap movie theater owner for your town has two screens. And they're the only place you can see the latest marvel movie for six months and so you have to go and give the money not because the experience is good but because they're the ones who have the exclusive on it and that is not great either so the problem that we detail before is if you don't have a theatrical a market that is driving sales and we live in an era where we can talk about how bad the movie theater industry is for customers and so many different ways but we also live in an era where movies we had a bunch of movies. Make more than a billion dollars at the box office. Like they're they're they're blockbusters. And that's why they make. Blockbusters is because those are the ones that make a lot of money at the box office. So here's the thing. I don't think anybody any movie is going to have a billion dollars worth of worth if it if it goes direct to streaming right. That's the problem is the theater market is a very lucrative important market for studios to so they don't want to abandon it but they probably need to change their approach. I think you know. I honestly think that we're that. We're going to not see as many blockbuster movies and we're going to see a lot more. Mid price movies with budgets are going to come down and they're gonna be aware because once you know that you can't make three billion dollars in theatrical you're not gonna spend as much money making the movies and so you know maybe the next round of marvel movies after the ones they've already green-lit maybe they're all about half the budget. They were before or something like that because they know they're not gonna make as much money theatrically but then they're going to. They're building the value disney plus in disney plus throws off this amount of money and that makes it worth it ultimately this massive amounts of disruption. But this is the kind of thing that the pandemic time is going to do for many industries. And so it's like you like just to recap this in case we're not being clear i feel for people whose livelihoods are affected by this. But what we're saying. Is that the company's not only these movie theater chains need to change the expectations that they have of what they can get and how they can charge their customers right. Yeah but just the practicalities of it is that the public evil won't feel safe won't be safe or change their habits in such a way that they want want to go to the or anymore and ultimately like you can't force people to do it. I personally can't imagine going to see a movie in a cinema for years years. Because i wasn't doing it that much anyway. So why would i to it right. And so is because i don't feel comfortable when doing it. Now what they. They closed good movie theater in my county. You know i would have to go to a bad theater or go drive a bit to to go to a good theater and You know maybe. I do that at some point. But you're i think if you look at the introduction of home video this has been has been a long very slow motion car crash writing like the availability. Because what you want. Is people want to see movies. People do want to see movies to the credit of everybody. In the movie industry. People love watching movies. They really do. And there's a lot of money there. There's a lot of people there. There's a lot of interest there we see it with the marvel movies and star wars. And you know there are all sorts of things that people like to see in these movies but people love to go to the movies. Okay or they love. They love movies. Let's say that people love movies over time with home-video things have just the window gets closer and closer and closer and closer because people wanna see that movie and the the movie industry has kept the exclusive theatrical window because it lets them charge per person and they didn't have a great delivery mechanism anyway but it lets them charge per person at a fairly high rate and then the theaters are are making money on the concessions and things like that but even so it just keeps getting smaller and smaller because people wanna see the movie and the opportunity to let people see the movie and other forms is greater and greater and now you have trained the audience and covid. Frankly has trained the audience and modern flat screen. Tv's and sound bars and like there's so many technologies that have changed the balance. That what you've got is like a A here in california. We have a lot of in in for us. We have this Oak sudden kills. The trees and the oak trees are standing. But they're dead. And then a windstorm or a fire blows through the fire. Just sets them all on fire because they're already dead. It's just deadwood ready to burn. It's that moment. Or or if you think about the Radio telescope in puerto rico that collapsed like it was a slow collapsed and then it was all once. This is what the standard traditional theatrical movie industry is right now is it was teetering and all all of the prevailing winds. Were pushing against it and then it happened. And then you're warnermedia or even disney and you look at your streaming platform that is the that is the future of your company and they all say it. A movie theaters are not the future of disney. They're not they've said so. Movie theaters are not the future of disney streaming is the future of disney and it may take time to get there but they've already said theaters our insularity. So they're they're not going to prioritize the thing that's not the future so i that's that's it it is. It is the thing that probably didn't make a lot of sense already but hung on because there was momentum and nobody wants to be the person to change it and then a pandemic happens. And that's it. It's going to change. So i can't predict what twenty twenty two movie theaters are going to look like but the fact that we will have gotten all of these releases from warriner's and some releases from disney right soul will probably not be the last one that will just pop on disney plus that is going to change the change things and let's not forget netflix's spending a lot of money on original films too and peop- and so many people have netflix. So that's you know. That's actually i think the strongest headwind for for the warnermedia's and disney's of the world is you know. Are they really competing over movie theater stuff or are they competing with Netflix's for attention. So i know i. I'll tell you this though. I'll tell you this. I am so looking forward to watching wonder woman on christmas day. Right the bottom line as a movie fan and somebody liked. I wonder woman woman movie a lot like. that's an event. That's our christmas night. I'm so excited about that. Because you know it. I i like movies i just. I'm not going to go a theater neither you. Maybe you don't need to movies year. That make a billion dollars. If you have a hundred million people giving you five dollars a month like i don't know the economics of a but if you can get enough people giving you money every month rather than once or twice a year. Maybe it's enough. I don't know. I don't know that it was that they think it is if disney is saying stuff like they have like the future is streaming. They must assume this the case or maybe they wouldn't do it. We'll find out the one thing. I do wanna point in this. Because i have to. There is obviously no international story for h. b. o. Max hair and always movies. There is a rumor that wonder woman may see a release on sky tv here but if it does it's either going to be as part of sky is an incredibly high barrier to entry right like you're in like because it's basically cable right and everybody has sky most people i think don't anymore have something like that because there's so much streaming stuff now or they may put it on a premium video on demand. Maybe you cry by yourself. But i really you know i look at disney's numbers. You know like that. The tens of millions of subscribers. And i know a lot of those are international and i think that h-. Hbo need to work out what they do. And one a need to work out the door with this. Because if you're trying to like you know they have this american strategy of we take it and we own it but the international strategy is like whoever i guess and i don't think those two things match up in the long run. Yeah we we have been watching them for a while right like not just struggle with having an international roll out and this is a case where netflix scott. There and apple is there and disney is their their strategy is interesting because you have pointed out a few times the hole in it. Which is they're going to do theatrical release of these movies everywhere where theaters are open. And they've got. Hbo max in the us k. What about places where there aren't theaters open or people don't want to go to theaters and there is no hbo. Max then what happens. And the answer is i guess. It looks a lot like twenty thousand nine in that scenario where it's gonna come out in the uk cinemas open. You're not gonna go see it. And there's gonna be no alternative to that maybe the window for purchasing. It is thirty one days right so thirty one days later you can. You can buy rented and that's a lot less than it used to be but you're not gonna be able to do it same day because they don't have and it's not your fault right. It's because they don't have an international strategy for hbo max which they probably should have right like you probably should have. But they sold all of their international rights for all of their content to so many different rights holders that they can't put the pieces together yet. Wild all right. This episode is also brought to you by our friends over and kiwi co families adapted. Thomas change this year including the holiday season some creative problem. Solving parents have discovered new ways to tackle lifestyle today over. Kiwi co hands on science and art project. You'll give a gift. Sparks curiosity and learning all year round is super hard to find new creative ways to keep the kids busy while stretching their brains especially now and kiwi coach. Does the work for you see. 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The something for every kid or kit aren't kiwi co one of the things. I also really love. Is that even if you're working on one of the young crates. They're fun for everyone. Involved like it is genuinely really great experience. The so much choice. You have the panda crate from age. Zero to two all the way up to the eureka crate for ages. Fourteen to one hundred four and many more rights in between. It's a big year for jason. Snell we got a make an electronic pencil sharpener awesome which has got like a little switch. And you put the pencil in and then the things spins and you gotta wire it up and all that stuff and then you get a pencil sharpener out of it in the end but you you you attach all the bits. And the way they comes to the booklet explains like the principles involved and then also like how they put it together and they do a lot of three d. Printing prototypes in order to figure out. Exactly what they need to do and then they build the instruction manual. And then you kind of get your hands on it and you put it all together very clever stuff a lot of fun. You can get fifty percent of your first month. Plus free shipping on any credit line with the code upgrade. Akiko dot com. That's fifty percent of your first month. Aka i w is a dot com with promo code upgrade. A thanks to kiwi cove for the support of this show every lay fm. So i Sat down for the show today. And i wrote a big topic based on. Of course you'd written over the weekend about trying to the performance of the two chip so give them one of your foam of charts. Yeah you know something to write on a friday afternoon. That is china walkout. What could the to be. So i finish that. I pressed. stop on my timer. I went over to twitter. Sculpted a top of the time line. And i saw a tweet from montgomery talking about these chips. I went back to the document. Deleted all the stuff threat against the show. Marker gurman once again released a big report right before upgrade. Thank mark. if mark's going to do it. I prefer it to be done the exact time. He's doing it because if he did it afterwards. It'll be way worse. I don't mind spending time walking on the notes and then going back to it If i then get a report as juicy is this one. I'm going to read some quotes and we can stop and talk about the mole because this is a very focused for paul but very good ones and loss of interest information is comes from montgomery and an ian king talking about a new series of chips that could be introduced in twenty twenty one several successes to the m one being developed that quote. If they live up to expectations they will significantly outpaced performance at the latest machines running into chips. Now this we expected right. This is what we've been expecting that everything that apple introduces now that we've seen that one can do. Should beat whatever. It's replacing hold everything. Hold everything people it turns out. Apple's not gonna just make 'em one never make another processor. Wait what. I thought that. They only made phone chips. No no it's true. They're gonna make several successors to them when they're gonna keep making chips and they'll be better than the m one. The company's next series of chips planned for release early as the spring and later in the fall a destined to be placed across upgraded versions of the macbook pro both entry level and high end i mac desktops and later new. Mac pro workstation. All of this. We kind of had expected but that timeline seems more aggressive. It's interesting as early as the spring and later in the fall. This the fact here seems to be apple has two waves of these. That mark is able to report about that the that somebody was willing to pass on that information to waves but because like again as early as the spring it might not be the spring. It might be the summer might be a fall. Later in the fall might be later in the fall where might be twenty two right. They have to make some product decisions and things slide around. What he is saying here is that there are sets that are that are being targeted. This is not just sort of like a next year's model but it's like a couple of models that might happen next year which is interesting. The fact that they mentioned a mac pro later whatever that means as well as macbook pro and mac interesting. I have thought for a while. Now that while apple said that they were doing a two year transition. It wouldn't surprise me if they finished by the end of two thousand twenty one just so they could say oh. Yeah we're done and and were being conservative. When they gave themselves two years to make the transition would not surprise me at all. They've done it before while. I also to add to that i've been thinking about this too. They announced that it would be two year transition in june of this year when yeah but they also say no because they said when we started in fall it will be a two year transition of what i mean is you. I've missed said that you thought i was making it from point. Okay in june of this year that will lots and lots of issues around producing anything and nobody knew how long it was going to take full product production to stabilize so even more reason for them to be conservative. We are claims they may have given themselves a little bit extra time in in case that they felt that they were going to be more significant issues around public manufacturer of the twenty four month period. Right would and maybe they they feel better about it now. Also you know presumably. They're getting samples of stuff from taiwan semiconductor. And they've seen how process of the m one being built at scale as is going and they've gained confidence there. Although i do wanna point out again marks report definitely is saying. This is what they're thinking but could make apple is still waiting and seeing in their decisions that could make calls yet delayed and people always roller is that and say well he's hedging. It's like well no. The future is unknown until it happens. This he's what he's reporting is what is currently the thinking within apple. Right which is not a prediction. It's what they're what they're shooting for what they think they might be able to achieve and they may change their planning. Something may happen exactly right. Yeah but his that this next part ds. I feel so vindicated in this plot. The next two lines of apple chips are also planned to be more ambitious than some industry watchers expected for next year for its next generation chip tugging macbook pro and imac models. Apple is working on designs of as many as sixteen powell. 'cause and for efficiency caused so that's twenty. Four twenty courtships anti twenty and the macbook pro while that component component is in development apple could choose to first release variations of only eight or twelve of the high performance cause enabled depending on productions has been enabled. That's binning yeah. That's right the idea that they may have an m one extra to that they're targeting sixteen p cores right. That's what they call them. Apparently upgrading snow. This core is sort of the standard. Which is you know. I feel like the four course thing. They have modeled. What like boring. Average usages yeah and and very confident of the four ecores can do all of that low level stuff and then the peace corps is jump in when you need. I think he's doing a job. It seems like now. She's saying that apple have worked out that there is a maximum amount of tasks that would ever be needed on Equals and they're just as you say they have just optimize photos for and in that stat and maybe in the future it will increase but if it does it will be like they all get six. Now it's unlikely that different Machines will get more equals than of is how it's in in doing my Silly chart spreadsheets and stuff. What i found is performance scales with p. course because remember the it'll just has course And so i was doing for ios. I was like looking at like. How do i add the. If i'm trying to get like a a geekbench score per core how does that make sense. And what i found was it makes sense. You just ignore the efficient course and you just the the power cores are where the scale comes from and this that out. Which is there's a base model of performance that they want to run efficiently. That's the thing that runs when you're sitting idle it runs when you're just typing an e mail. It's what happens when you're when the lid is shut on your laptop and it's just doing some things in the background lake. It's all that stuff is handled by the efficiency core. And it's the equivalent of mac book air an intel macbook air right like they said and then you lay on the power. Core is and that's to do everything else and when you when you get to work and so it is interesting to say to see them. Say what we're gonna do is design a variant of this chip that's got instead of Instead of four or eight it'll have sixteen power cores and And then they could been it depending on the yields that they get so they might come out with like an eight or twelve that would also allow for that like Configure to order experience. Where you've in the end. What the what they're gonna do is say new. I mac or new sixteen inch macbook pro. And you can you know it comes with a course but you can get twelve or sixteen if you pay extra. And that's perfectly understandable computer buying kind of thing not nothing in the story about about how they are gonna handle memory configurations which is one of these things everybody keeps asking about but just imagine a sixteen core plus the forfeit or so twenty four macbook. Pro like you said or mac. So when i said i felt vindicated is in the there have been many people in this arena. Care about technology in apple who have just been like. This is just iphone chips and these are just dishes. Apple's going to do they make hyphen chips now. And one of the things that we've been talking about and i've been saying like my feeling on this. It's just like older is similar about them. Is is kind of how they look but what apple is doing is completely different and i think at the point i mean. We haven't even got to the rest of this story. But the point that like harry's a twenty core chip like all right. We have to all agree. Now that these on iphone chips right. Yeah it's just this. Is the way apple. Knows how to make their own ships so in theory they look similar but i do not believe in. I have never thought that. What is the m one is an a fourteen x like. I don't think that that's how they think of it. I just do not believe. I've never thought that. But it's just they look like they would be similar. And i'm sure that if an a fourteen x comes out and it will look similar but i don't think apple was ever considered the net way and i think when we're seeing this kind of stuff we can see that they don't so everything they're doing to evolve rightly the m one is not just an a fourteen x. That's capable of running mac os. It's also the start of of like it's the it's the base camp for whatever they're going to do from there the on the mac side right so presumably they have strategized and building it. They know where it's going from there and it's going it's going up and now we've seen this chip and we see what the future looks like. I think the reason that it looks like an iphone chip is that they just so this is all they needed. Look how powerful these machines. They didn't need more than anything. Go in there. I'm sure in the many times somebody sent a link about us talking about our max episode one hundred or something of this show which is like it's been a long time we've been talking about them but like the. I think the assumption all along was that they were essentially going to be able to take something that was like a glorified ipad ship. And put it in max and it would be an incredibly fast low end mac. It'd be incredibly fast much faster than your macbook. Air or mac mini. We'd be and although yes the m one is not an a fourteen x but it is potentially in terms of performance in profile kind of a glorified ipad chip it is. The first step is a logical first. Step they're not going to jump to the twenty core monster. They're going to start with the simplest thing. It's it's there dipping their toe in the water. Yep of mac chips and it's exactly that it is exactly that it is not that different from what they've done before you gotta start somewhere but they know where they're going from here and that's what this gherman story is about like this is the. This is the most modest. That's the thing. When when i see people who are generally a pc industry skeptics. Who don't think that apple's all that and look at what is going on the windows side when i see them criticize it. It's very funny that a lot of times the fact that this is a low end processor on low end computers gets lost because you know but what about the high end like well. Yeah they this. Isn't that this is. This is the low end now. we're starting to get a sense of what apple's playbook is from here. Playbook keeps getting bigger. So lebed's philip. We need to just point out again. Twenty four twenty core processes in latin. I wonder what we start ignoring the efficiency course and just talk about the the Performance paulos pecos. Some but like that is absurd. Yeah for hiring. Desktops planned for later in two thousand twenty one and a neuhof sized mac pro plan to launch by twenty twenty. Two this doubling down on this. Now let's we can all this unit. This is going to happen. Apple is testing a chip design as many as thirty two high performance. Cause that would probably mean maybe thirty six. Maybe this machine doesn't even get them who knows. I doubt that. But let's say let's just assume a thirty six core machine thirty six core. Yeah now for clear and desktop computers. We can assume that this would be the highest end. I'm mak right. I imagine right higher end desktop computers. That is whether we call in nyack per hour. Just a very high end i mac. Maybe mac mini. Maybe maybe maybe maybe we owe to sealer in the space gray gotta earn that spacecraft because he says and a so that you know it's like it so this is and this half mac pro. I don't. I'm really puzzled about this. Like is this the mac pro now or is it a new mac pro and side the other one. Don't know that right but it seems like there's something going on there which is really interesting but that is that's massive right thirty two high performance course. Slow cost if you don't if you know because like what are we like what source the top ten twelve for the mac pro right now is as high up as it goes at the moment. No mac pro. Mac pro goes way up. Okay there okay. I know that the i mac pro is ten right or is that the base model. They all go. They all go way are up about twenty eight in the chat where it goes. So you know. This is more calls Apple engineers also developing more ambitious graphics processors. Today's m one processes are offered of accustom apple graphics engine. That comes in seven or eight core variations for future high end. Laptops and mid range desktops. Now police testing sixteen and thirty two core graphics pots. yeah. I mean again not surprising. So when we're saying is that for a higher in makwe pro and for the you're not gonna get what you have with the m one where you're you've got a smaller number of cores and you know seven or eight. Gb kors instead. You're going to get a system with. Let's say eight performance cores and sixteen graphics cores on that processor as the base model something like that and that we make in a mac book pro right or an that would make sense. And then you've got your configured order options where you go up to thirty two cores or sixteen performance scores and all of that that is. That's it's fun to see mark gurman report this because he's reporting this information from people on the inside but it's also kind of something that follows logically these. This is of course. This is the kind of thing you would do. It also does inform a little bit apple strategy with the m series processor which seems to be more cores right more more cores more more cores more graphics cores probably more neural engine cores. Just more cores not just add more chorus and they must feel very confident about the ability for their architecture to scale with that many cores like thirty two cores of graphics thirty two high performance. Cpu cores that's a lot. That's a lot right but they are testing it. So i i think i think they've they've proven that they know what they're doing but this is this is another level from what they've done up to now. I'm not done for later. In two thousand twenty one potentially twenty twenty two apple is working on pricier. Graphics upgrades with sixty four and one hundred and twenty. Eight dedicated calls aimed at its highest m. machines. The people said does graphics chips would be several times faster than the current graphics. Modules apple uses from nvidia. Amd in his intel pallet hardware. There is a possibility that you would be able to get this little low baby. Mac pro where have thirty s thirty six core processor and a one hundred. Twenty eight co gpu. How big is that system on chip today. Like wheel in for you right. Like if that's i don't even i. I don't know enough about this here. Atp talk about it but like could that all be on one chip all of that or do. Because it's not clear to me. These with the way that i read and to article as to whether affect apple is working on integrated or discrete graphics. Here now i know that there have been previous articles that reference discrete graphics cause of separate graphics chips from apple. A may be the sixty four on one hundred twenty eight cool. Gp us would be like set chips that maybe you could upgrade in the mac pro anyway which might make sense but nevertheless that is just an unbelievable offering the within the next two years the next eighteen months. Yeah this is what we could be looking at. It shows you their ambition right like there there if they can pull this off what they're going to get is the performance boost that we've seen in the low end across the line And by that. I mean The the one that plays out is that the other products in the mac product line get slightly upgraded m one kind of stuff and the M one mac bulgaria's so many times faster than the previous model but by the time you get up to the high end. They're they're not. They're like in the ballpark or a little bit faster. That's the sort of really gentle approach to transition a more aggressive approaches to say no. We're gonna every time we upgraded model. We're going to do our take on the chip. That should be in that model and it's going to be more aggressive and every one of these is going to be that much faster. The mac pro at each corner level is going to be your already price. Level is going to be this much faster than the intel mac pro and that seems to be what this report is suggesting is. That's at least what they're shooting for. I'm also again really intrigued by the fact that it looks like we've got a couple of waves because that kind of makes sense. I like that idea. So they're they're working on step two is how is desktops and laptops and then step three is super high in pro models. And that's their that's going to be their approach. And maybe we'll see those super high pro models by the end of next year. Or maybe as he says potentially twenty twenty two but in the interim we are also going to be talking about new. I max and new macbook pros that have this more powerful. Cpu and graphics processor than what's on the m one and logical like that's why they didn't update those systems with the m one because they need something more than the m one can provide but yeah thirty again zeon. You can spend a lot of money and get a twenty eight core mac pro but thirty two high performance apple design cores in a little half height. Mac pro is a fascinating thing. And i i still wonder about expansion. What that expansion looks like. And there are a lot of open questions there for that product. But let's be honest. not very. Many people will buy a mac. Whatever it is it is. It is an case kind of product. I'm more interested in what happens with the i. Mac and the mac mini the high neck. Appro what it looks like his old law a lot's going to happen. I don't. I don't know exactly what i expected but i feel like these numbers surprised me. I think the ones that surprised me the most The amount of course and mac pro twenty causing a laptop seems like a lot and i think the graphics stuff and i did want to mention something that like mark points out the because these are so much faster than the chips. That apple uses from invidia and amd. I think it's worth just knowing that chips. That apple uses from video in a md slower than the stuff like the dedicated graphics. Cards things that apple chooses to eat in us are not that great. So it's just like i think people see that and they think that like apples chips are going to be fostered in these the. Ea i keep hearing people talk about It's complicated the way that the architecture is for these chips but like the author. Ea ea has you know. Invidia say thousands. Of course. so it's a different. Is they look at these things very differently. But you know this is also saying that apple kind of playing their own interesting game here. And there's not there's not like an obscene amount of cools in my macbook pro but it is significantly faster than anything with the same core count. So you know. There's a lot of play him. But what is just knowing as we can. All assume apple can produce more powerful graphics units and chips than what they are currently using even if they could extend out to what is available in architecture a more deaths still has to be stuff to take advantage of that right and like really. Powerful graphics tends to mean great games but it isn't just graphics that brings games that there's a lot in between right link market and development tools and it has been long known that that is not really there for the mac for these big aaa games. Now if the hardware is that impressive or ends up being so impressive maybe changes the gaming story on the mac a little bit. But i don't think so. Ultimately i think the graphics stuff for the mac is about creative saaf wear and how that is used right so like how. Combative graphics provide a better experience. For video editors all that kind of stuff you know. I don't think that we're gonna see a fortnight fortnight obviously full nicer it had been on the mac per se like cyberpunk game. They're excited about seems like it might be disappointing. These types of games that people for for their consoles and the pc. But they don't have a place on the mac. And i don't necessarily think that these chips would result in that but it's just addendum. I wanna make to people that maybe don't pay as much attention to this kind of stuff but overall this is an. I'm so excited this this report like i felt like my brain just kept exploding. The more i read of it like it really like. I'm super excited about this super super excited about this. Yeah it's again. It's exciting because it shows apples level of ambition here And i think what you see in mark. Gurman hedging is internally. You know not entirely being confident that they're going to get it all in two thousand twenty one that there may be issues there. They are new to this. On the mac side and they you know they could face challenges but it sounds like they're being very ambitious and they've got a game plan and it involves a couple of waves of processors high in laptop slash desktop systems and then a super high end system and maybe a binning approach to providing some different levels of performance And you know you pay to get the the extra course for the in the news and that it's all logical it's exciting but also it makes sense like i get that this would be their strategy. The subset of upgrade is brought to you by dot dash. Yes some answering your list from laundry to emails to zoom calls to goodness knows what else she getting up to these days. We're all so busy. One thing to have to worry about. Is the door dash. Take care of your next meal daughter. 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Our thanks to door dash for their support of upgrade and all of rely fm. Let's do some hashtag. Ask upgrade questions. Ryan wants to know what orientational size of kibo do you use on your phone. Do you go full size squish to the left of squish to the right size man me too for size. I forget that the squished thing is thing you can do. I can see why people that use the phone that i use might wanna do squish to one side a great option on an iphone twelve many probably not necessary for most people bio even though i do full size i am pretty much always a swipe typer i do the. Swipe typing love me typing. I i mostly still tap. But i do. Swipe occasionally joe wants to know jason snell. How come twenty max. Twenty twenty is an incomparable podcast. This is the same version of a question. We've answered a bunch of times but more which is the incomparable as a kind of popular culture and entertainment network and really m is technology network. And so tech. Podcast goes on really. Fm and Twenty extra twenty. Twenties tech podcast. So that's the answer. I mostly just wanted to include this as an opportunity for you to tell people that they should go. And listen to twenty max twenty twenty. Thank you bye curly. That's a great suggestion. People should listen to twenty max for two thousand twenty available for everyone for free. It comes out on. Fridays relay dot fm slash twenty. Max i want to say. And if you're an upgrade member or a Six colors member you can access your member page and get day members. Only feed the comes out on monday the same time that the essay and the video with steve hackett come out so this week selection is The macbook air. I don't want to tip my hand. And i don. I definitely don't to Unfairly encouraged out gradients. When it comes to vote in in the up grady's but twenty twenty twenty of my favorite shows. This you you way very good job of job. Then you need to. If that makes sense the editing in the story telling is really good but you you know you make a lot of creative decisions in the show that just aunt flavor than not you need to do them and i think that that is the mark of very good production like this very nice. Thank you for saying that. It is a journey sometimes writing the those episodes where i go to some interesting places but i i. I allow myself to do those things. Because that's the whole point is i. I want to explore what that kind of a podcast is like. And if something strikes my fancy and i'm like yeah let's go with that. Let's go in that direction then. then I i do it so yeah. People should check it out there on the short. they're not like of conversational podcast. It's very different kind of thing. And they're like most of them are about fifteen minutes long every now and then. There's a twenty minute long one But yeah there are a lot of fun just wants to know. Do you have any app recommendations for sleep. Tracking data analysis Not not me. no. I don't do this either but i have to apps. I wanted to recommend anyway for four josh to answer the question but i am keen to hear from the up gradients to what their experience is. This i've wondered if sleep tracking is a thing if you ever tried it. I tried it like one time and decided. I didn't want to wear a watch all night. It is my thing too. Is i don't think on an bedded which apple owns which is a which is a sensor you lay on the bed and then it it logs it and that was okay but i didn't really do anything with the data and it really and it required. It really wanted your your iphone to be next to your bed which mine isn't So it got very. And then. I paid her with my ipad and it didn't work because there's no health app and it was just a whole thing so i i've tried it and i would say if i had some sleep seriously issues. I would make a better effort than i have. Isn't it with that. You can still buy that bed at thing. It is a little bit weird. I wonder i wonder what they were what they were doing with that. It's i think it's superior in a lot of ways because you don't have to wear a watch and your and your sleep can be analyzed. That's actually a nice idea. But it seems like such a strange thing file. Mak- why is that. Why is it. Napa product is is. Why did they buy it. Like legitimately at the bottom of the bed at website says copyright apple inc. Yeah they bought the whole. That'll be tomorrow. Mike tomorrow sleep tracking. Saw it bet at three surprise big bet at three released tomorrow so the i want to suggest that people that i know friends that use so if you want to check the mouse sleep plus plus and auto sleep to recommendations that i see a lot for applications to analyze your sleep. Data marlins asks why isn't apple selling. Afc richmond jesse's now the exact. We don't have answers to questions like this. You know i. I wished i did They should be ignace The reason i included this question in today's episode is. Because i saw this on a nine to five mac linked to space explorer. Which is zack. hall's website. I think zack runs it. It's paw of over nine to five thing. The apple are selling a for all mankind mission. Patch set yes. And i find it interesting and think they should do more merch and i would so much. Want an afc richmond jersey. Yeah yeah no this is. This is a place where i think apple has fallen down is working on the marketing angle for some of its shows like there should be. It's a network right. There should be like a cbs store. Kind of thing where you can go to the apple. Tv store or even in the apple store itself but if they have to set up something on the side whatever where you can buy your you know morning show mug and your your stickers or patches or whatever for for all mankind missions interesting that this one kind of leaked out. It's a strange thing. It's for season two. So it's kind of a spoiler. I haven't looked at the tax diet. I've recommended looking at them in detail in chaos spoilers in the and then tat tat lasso. There are so many people who are sort of like making not not licensed shirts and stuff yet reference ted lasso because people have really loved that show in and yet there's nothing out there like i feel like if you're running a network or streaming service. You should probably have a store where people who are fans super fans can buy stuff related to the shows that that you've got and I'm surprised they haven't done that. Yeah like beaks and chat is like i would love morning show. Coffee mug like yeah. It's just a funny one to have right like they. I really would like to see them doing more in this vein. Because this is how you build super fans of your appropriate is and ted lasso specifically really seems like one of those shows that people would like to have that kind of stuff for because it has this. It's not at this point. It's not a cult following but it's that kind of feeling like you know. Have you heard the good news about ted lhasa. Kind of thing and asks what do you think are apple's options in regards to the ipad mini. Do they kill it that. Keep it in the same form factor and a chip behind everything else update to look more like the ipad air. What do you think they're gonna do. It's always a good question because it's unclear. How apple feels about the ipad mini. But they kept it around some guesses that the next ipad mini. Revision will be like the ipad air. It'll be a touch. Id on a button. And they'll move the vessels in a little bit and updated with modern ish chips. And maybe it'll even maybe it'll even get the sides and support apple pencil to maybe even that but like i think they'll you know much later than you wanted updated to be what they're sort of state of the art for the the cheaper ipads is so yeah ultimately. I think it will look like the ipad air. I hope so. I really love that product. I think it would be really really nice and final question. Today comes from ryan. Do you run apps that have electron versions or do you just use these services in a web browser so like if a company companies mac app. They're the only thing they offer is an electron amp. Do you use those or do you use the mill. Where browser and set. I absolutely use the apps. Because i hate apps that run on a web browser. I hate it because i use my web browser for the web. And then there's a tab that is lost in the browser and you can't find it or you clo- i'm a. I'm not somebody who keeps million tabs open. So what happens with me then. I close it. I closed the window. And i'm like god. I just lost that app. That was in a tab in that window. And i hate that i hate it i hate it i hate it. I would like to send more web apps out in two separate applications. And i know about single site browsing things sometimes. They don't work right to say that sometimes they don't work right but so i of course i run the electric versions because their apps in they run in their own apps space and i know when they're open and i know when they're closed and i can control them. I i much prefer that. I hate running something. That looks like an app. It's a web browser hayden. I will also state for the record that i'm not. I don't think i can tell if an app is an electron app. Maybe makes me a bad mac user. I dunno computer. Nerds like to see phil well. Yeah but if you open activity monitoring you look at the ram being used link. Yeah you know. I just run slack. It's fine and it's an app. And i'm glad it's an app. I don't want it in my web browser. If you'd like to send in a question for us to answer the answer to show to send in a tweet with hashtag ask upgrade or if you are really. Fm member aj issues. The command question mark upgrade. You can become a relief. A member support upgrade directly by going to get upgrade plus dot com. If you do that you'll get access to a special feed that gives you add free episodes of upgrade every single week with bonus content is typically like fifteen to twenty minutes more upgrade for you every week with no ads. And you'll also get an additional bonus of twenty max twenty twenty a few days before anybody else along with all of the of a wonderful perks you get for being a reliable member which includes annual specials access to the relief members discord and so much more. It is a fantastic deal. Just go to get upgrade plus dot com and thank you so so much to all of you out gradients. That have done that. We really really appreciate your support. I'd also like to thank dr dash kiwi co and uni for their support of this show. If you'd like to find jason snell online you can kill god of. I've ruined everything for myself. By saying that the start of the show go to six colors dot com or the incomparable dot com or. He is just at j. Go now that jay onto it a you can fill in the rest for yourself. I am at i mike. I m y e I've been experimenting with twitch streaming recently It's all keyboard related content if you thought to yourself. I really liked it. When when mike and jason spoke about keyboards on the show before. Maybe you're a keyboard person if you are. You should shoot into my twit streams. Mike dot live. I'm going to be doing something. On saturday. the twelfth at nine am pacific five pm gmt and going to be building. A keyboard cooler thinks six point five from scratch which includes soldering and everything so he can come and hang out then. Watch me do that We'll be back next time until then sacred by co host friend farewell. Mike mike by jason snell no.