17 Burst results for "Jane dorsey"

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

01:35 min | 3 months ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"That i kick started last year featuring year guests of this podcast. It's called shapers of worlds. You can find it again. Through any bookstore or go directly to shadow pop press dot com and it includes new fiction from ten a huff. Shannon mcguire david weber d. modest junior. John c right. Dj butler christopher rocky. Oh shelley edina and me and there were reprints from john. Skulls joe haldeman. David brin judah issur neda fonda the gareth l powell dr charles gannon derek kukushkin in three a dire. Pretty high powered lineup. If you ask me and because that was successful earlier this year. I ran a starter for shapers of world's volume to That kickstarter succeeded. And so i'm currently collecting stories from authors. And then we'll be editing with the goal of having that book out fall and it will feature even more new fiction it will have new stories from kelley armstrong. Marie brennan helen. Deo candice jane. Dorsey the sofala foils susan forrest. James alan gardner matthew hughes healthy kennedy lisa kester adria lay craft. Irony ayman garth nix. Tim pratt edward salvio brian. Thomas schmidt jeremy shawl and me and stories by jeffrey a carver. Barbara hambly nancy. Kress david wien. Sm sterling and kerry von so another high-powered list of authors for that book which. I'm working on now so again Shapers of world's shapers of world's volume two will be coming out Keep an eye on that through The website shot oppress dot com. Or of course if you keep listening to this podcast..

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

02:11 min | 6 months ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"To another episode of the world shapers and this one is coming to you in the midst of the kickstarter campaign for shapers of world's volume two. This is an anthology that will feature guests from the second year of this podcast. And it's a follow up to shapers of worlds which was an anthology. I started last year that featured guest from the first year of the podcast. That one's widely available now. If you want to go buy a copy or twelve or you know however many you need for christmas is not that far away. It's only what eight minutes nine months get out there and buy copies shapers shapers volume two when it comes out and have a nice package to give to all of your friends and family of roads volume two will feature original fiction from kelley armstrong. Marie brennan helen. Dale candice jane dorsey. Lisa foils susan forrest. James alan gardner matthews healthy kennedy kessler a aicraft. 'iran garth nix tim pratt. Edward salvio. brian. Thomas schmidt jeremy's all and me and it will have reprints from jeffrey a carver. Barbara hambly chris. David levine. esim sterling and carrie vaughn. I'm looking for fifteen thousand dollars. Canadian to make this happen. And as of today. I am well well over. Seventy six percents Eleven thousand four hundred and something currently Enhance will not at hand but pledged and with still ten days to go. So the podcast. I mean the kickstarter ends i. Guess doesn't end. The kickstarter ends on april. Eight th at eleven. Am my time. I think Central standard time. So get your back. King in before then and the backers rewards are plentiful and quite exciting. There are all kinds of signed books including some limited editions. There's black and white photographs marie. Brennan there's an audio books. There are tucker is ations where your name is used as a character in a story or a novel and i'm even offering a short story critiques and consultations at the five hundred dollar level and at three thousand dollars if you really want to help out and also take advantage of a great opportunity. I'd like to think it's a great opportunity. I've offering.

David levine Barbara hambly fifteen thousand dollars Thomas schmidt Brennan last year april carrie vaughn christmas Dale candice Marie brennan helen three thousand dollars twelve five hundred dollar today second year eight minutes jeffrey a carver first year Edward salvio
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

03:45 min | 7 months ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"To another episode of the world. Shapers the podcast. Right talk to other science fiction and fantasy authors about their creative process. I am myself an author of science fiction fantasy. My name is edward it alloy. Also right under the pseudonym. Abc blake and once Arthur chain at my main publisher is dot books in new york and my books from our the world shapers series which world shaper master of the world and most recently the moon net world a set in a vast labyrinth of worlds in which the people who have shaped who came from our road originally actually live. So it's bit like authors like the authors. I interview on this podcast giving inside the world's they create so the first adventure which introduces my main character. Shana keys who's on a quest put on a quest to save all these shaped worlds from the adversary by taking the knowledge of their making gathering it and taking it to a mysterious gray at the center of the labyrinth. That first world is very much like our world with a few differences because it's not really our world and then Book to master. The world's takes place in jules verne like world so there's weird airships submarines and floating islands strange weapons and all that good stuff grace deemed puckish and then book. Three master of the world is i like to say where walls and vampires in peasants. Because it's that kind of world so that's my latest stuff. From doc i also published books Some of which have been abandoned or orphaned by previous publishers. And some do it's through my own little publishing company shadow press and you can find that at shadow pop press dot com and among those titles is when under the aforementioned dc blake pseudonym blue fire. That just came out. It's a big young adult fantasy epic about two three very different young people who have to work together to save their their kingdom. One of them happens to be basically giant cat He's been his. His race has been transformed to be quite so. That's blue fire if you want to look for that Shadow pop press dot com shadow. Press has also put out the first anthology. A featuring guests of this podcast. I kick started that about a year ago. It was called of worlds. It's out now. And he book and trade paperback and it has a new fiction from sean maguire. Tanya huff david weber ellie modest junior. Dj butler christopher rocky. Oh john c right shelly. Edina and me and there were also stories by john. Skulls david brand. Joe haldeman julius eastern ada fonda delete doctor charles e gannon gal pal derek could skin and three a dire. That was so successful. I am now building the kickstarter to do a shaper of worlds volume two featuring guests from the second year of this podcast. It's going to be bigger original fiction new fiction from kelley armstrong. Marie brennan helen. Dale kansas jane. Dorsey lisa foils susan. Forrest james alan gardner. Matthew hughes healthy. Kennedy lisa kessler adria lay craft irony. Garth nix..

Matthew Marie brennan helen Edina Joe haldeman sean maguire new york Tanya huff john second year ellie susan One Dale kansas jane Kennedy lisa kessler shelly first anthology john c Dj butler Shana keys first adventure
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

04:42 min | 8 months ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"You can also download the book version directly from shadow. Pop press you can also buy the print version from shop press. Although i admit i cannot compete with. The shipping costs that to amazon manages to get away with. It cost me a lot more to ship them out now. There's going that that book was kick started back in march twenty twenty and i'm working towards the kickstarter for a volume two Shapers worlds volume two. Which will feature guests from the second year of this podcast and that is also an amazing list of authors much longer actually twenty four authors currently planning to be part of that they'll be new fiction from kelley armstrong marie brennan. This is an alphabet order. Helen dale candice. Jane dorsey lisa foil. Susan forrest james. Alan gardner matthew hughes heli kennedy. Lisa kester adria lay craft. Ira naming garth. Nix tim pratt. Edward salvio brian. Thomas schmidt jeremy shaw and again me edward well then. They'll also be stories from jeffrey a carver. Barbara hambly nancy. Kress david dein. Sm sterling and kerry von so. That's a really excited about that. That kick we'll go live. I hope in march. And don't worry. I will let you know about it here. On the world shapers podcast. Great backers rewards starting to come in from out of those authors as well. So it's it's going to be very exciting right. I think that will do it for the introduction. It's time to get onto this episode's guest the first guest of twenty twenty one robert g. penner rubber pinter's the author of strange labor when publishers. Weekly's best science fiction books with twenty twenty is also the editor of the online science fiction. Zine big echo and has published more than thirty short stories and a wide range of speculative and literary journals under the pseudonym of williams squirrel is a canadian currently living in the us but will be coming back to rejoin me in canada shortly. So robert r rob welcome to the world shakers. Thank you great to be here. I don't believe we've ever crossed pads in person but we do have a kind of a secondhand connection in that. The publisher of strange labor radio press is based right here in regina saskatchewan. Where i live and i know john kennedy. Who's over there very well. And in fact the anthology that came out of the first year of this podcast shapers of worlds is being distributed through it disco canadian distribution company through the good graces of radiant press. So there's kind of a connection their connection. That's the real deal. So we'll talk a little bit about your canadian roots and how you got interested in when all this science fiction stuff so but.

Alan gardner Helen dale candice kerry von Barbara hambly nancy williams squirrel jeffrey a carver Lisa kester Thomas schmidt amazon robert g. penner canada march twenty twenty Susan forrest james john kennedy Edward salvio brian twenty four authors marie brennan Kress david dein more than thirty short stories second year
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

06:01 min | 9 months ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"Dale james on gardner. Susan forest adria aicraft ira name and kansas jane. Dorsey david wien. Mathew hughes kerry von jeremy sol The foils and edwards obvio-. And i suspect there might be more yet. So watch for another kickstarter campaign coming up in march all right that is the introductory material except to say as i always do that to the world shapers. Podcast is part of this sketch. One podcast network. Now let's get onto this episode's guest. Frank.

Dale james Susan forest adria Dorsey david wien Mathew hughes kerry jeremy sol edwards obvio gardner kansas Frank
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

14:08 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"And so this is. This was a world where the aliens were they were. They were the the elite they were the classy ones and basically all of humanity was was relegated to a subsidiary role and most people were reasonably happy with it but there were a few people who didn't like it so my main character was somebody who who fell in with a with a group of rebel of rebels or or terrorists as they were described by by people outside the group who had managed to seize a An alien bio computer. Then he was a computer hacker and he hacked it and for reasons that he didn't understand at the time the hack resulted in plague. An epidemic a a play an alien plague and so all the aliens started coming down with this horrible disease that was spreading like wildfire and the connection between the two wasn't even clear at first and to make things more complicated He he was the ex-lover of the daughter. The of the aliens leader who was also not coincidentally the first person to fall to the virus. So I did a. I did something incredibly ambitious. I said well if in banks can write a novel that BOPs back backward and forward in time simultaneous. I can too so I didn't have a in in bank. Says I believe it's use of weapons. You got alternating points of view. One of them going forward in time the other one backward to a to a mutual conclusion on. I didn't do that but I did have. One of the two point of view threads began a say in January and the other one began in September of the same year and bopping back and forth between them One of them is catching up to the other. And they both finish up in December. So so that. So you've got one one. Thread is offering you Previews and foreshadowing for what's happening in the other thread and the other threat is explaining. What's happening in the in the later and so anyway it was. It was ridiculously complicated. And I believe I pulled it off but nobody was willing to risk it for a first novel. Also there was there was poly-amorous and and my main character slept with with men women and aliens and and it was the first novel I think I think it was really good but it didn't sell I. Did you came close? I got I got an I got an offer from a major publisher but the editor I did not get an offer from a major publisher. I got an editor who wanted to buy it. But he couldn't convince his boss to put up the money and then and and none of the other. None of the other publishers were interested and so the second novel was a similar thing again. I thought I thought it worked I learned from the learned from from the first novel at that. I needed to be a little bit less ambitious. So instead of having instead of having alternating points of view bopping back and forth in time and a An complicated poly-amorous Bisexual Alien fucking love story. I'm sorry did I say that. We're in the second novel. I had only only two points of view and and it was and it was strictly going. It was strictly going direction in time but I still had an underage lesbian Lesbian Romance at the heart of it and and that one also did not sell the the QS. Okay okay so that didn't sell. And the third one was a was a young adult. One point of view strict chronological and still had still had a possible lesbian. Love affair in there but not but not intergenerational on and at the time I was finishing up books three the rejections that I was getting on book. Two people were telling me science fiction just isn't selling these days. I remember that I don't know if it was actually true at the time. But it was certainly the message that I was getting from both editors and agents so for the my fourth price so after I finished third book that the young adult one I did not even submit it. I set it aside because it was science fiction and I said what can I write? That's fantasy enough to meet the needs of the market but science fiction enough to to satisfy my science fiction writer heart and so of the huge pile of ideas that I have. Because I don't know about anybody else but it certainly is a truism in this field that ideas of the easy part. I mean you know that thing about somebody will come up during a party and say and say hey. I've got this great idea for a science fiction story. You know. Y'All give you the idea you write it. We'll split the profits and and no no ideas are easy. Ideas are a dime a dozen so I had this huge pile of science fiction story ideas and there was this one that was that involved an alternate regency or at least an alternate an alternate enlightenment period. Where the sky was full of air and the European cowart. European powers had colonize Mars Venus. Which are of course inhabited and so I had. I had this idea and I thought you know this kind of feels like fantasy with the flying sailing ships. But I'm going to. I'm going to approach it as science fiction and and so I wrote it and and this is one of those things. Where when you when you mention well I've got. I've got these three or four novel ideas. This was the one that everybody pointed out and get. Yeah Yeah that one. That one sounds fascinating and really. That's the basic idea of our Bella with the flying sailing ships in the girl who dresses as a boy and and and and Martians and pirates and privateers. It's got a lot of. It's got a lot of jazz to it. People really like the raw idea and that helped me that helped propel me through the writing of it and it really helped sell it. One thing. That is really important when you are submitting book to either in Asia during editor is you've got to have your comps your comparable titles and for my first couple of novels. I said. Well it's kind of like Larry Niven or it's Kinda like advance you know I was. I was comparing with myself to writers who were already twenty or thirty years out of date but on this one. I could say it's Patrick O'Brien in space. That's my that's my crop title. I could also compare it with Mary. Robinson Co Walls. A regency magic series. So if you can if you can realistically compare your book to things which are highly regarded critical success and current bestsellers. It dramatically increases the chances of success versus saying well. It's kind of like this obscure thing that you might not have heard of or was forty years ago so and that's something that you've gotta you've gotTa do that. That has to be baked into the core of the book. It's not something you can't come up with titles after it's written you have to understand as you're beginning to write it. I'm going for a CJ SHERRY. Feel or it's going to be like N. Que Jemison or I want something like Captain Nemo that you have to have your cup titles in mind from the very beginning and it's best if those cup titles are things that people will go yeah cool. I love that I want more of it all right well. Let's get a synopsis of Arab of Mars. I for those who for some inexplicable reason have not read the book. Okay so our bell of Mars takes place in eighteenth thirteen in an alternate universe in which the sky is full of air and the European powers of colonize Mars and Venus are. Bella is a girl who was raised on a plantation on Mars but her mother Fearing that she was turning into a wild colonial child called her back to England she hated it in England. I everything was too heavy to wet too warm. And the people were dull She wanted excitement in her life She had grown up Basically completely on her own. She and her brother would run around in the desert with their Martian nanny and have have all kinds of adventures on and in and in England it was just balls and and and cards and horses and an incredibly dull So then They get a letter discovering that dad who had remained back on Mars had passed away of a fever and our Bella discovers that her cousin is planning to travel to Mars and do in her brother so that he can inherit the family fortune. She is a for a variety of contrived reasons. The only person who is in a position to do anything about this so she disguises herself as a boy and signs on too fast interplanetary freighter to attempt to beat her cousin to Mars so she can warn her brother and save the Family Fortune. Naturally hijinks ensue. She winds up. There's a there's a mutiny. The ship is attacked by pirates. They land on Mars to discover. There's an alien rebellion in progress. Eventually there's a confrontation and our ability does indeed Get the boys saved the fortune and and calm the income the Martian rebellion. It's a heck of a lot of fun now going back to the initial idea. You have a lot of ideas but do you remember what kind of made you think of this in the first place and and is that typical of the way that your ideas come to you. I say of ideas. That ideas are like neutrinos. They come sleeping down in space by the billions but you have to be dense enough to stop one so if you just keep your Eyes Open. Ideas are coming to you. Constantly I was talking with somebody at Clarion one of my fellow students. About where is she said? Rian where'd you get? Where'd you get your ideas and there was a bird in the tree nearby? We're outdoors and I said well you know there's a bird you know. Let's talk about birds you know. What if what if what if what if birds were were spaceships? What if you could build a spaceship out of a bird brain and just sorta sketched on an idea right? Then and that idea became till the Golden Eagle which was my first Hugo nominee so so in this particular case the see I know exactly where the seat of our Abella was. It was nine hundred eighty seven. It was Gene Wolf's book earth of the New Sun Earth Sun takes place in a far far far future. Which is which is almost medieval on and at one point our hero boards a board the ship to to take him to another planet and he's given a he's given a necklace which holds the air around himself and he discovers that when he goes out on deck In order to talk to somebody else you have to move up close to them. So that your Envelopes of Air Intersect Because there is no there is no sound in space and he asks why is this so and is told while the philosophers believe that if there were sound in space the roaring of the stars would deafen the universe and that that note about about about space is full of vacuum because otherwise the roaring of the stars would definitely would definitely universe stuck with me for over twenty years and I had this idea for I. It was going to be a short story about it. Was going to be an alternate seventeen hundreds where humanity discovers that. The Sky is indeed full of air that that that the that the unit the universe the universe is full and this is going to be. I figured when would people when people discover this. When and how would people discover that that the that the universe will of air? Figured they'd probably do it. It would probably be Ben. Franklin or or Isaac Newton or something like that And they would discover it by actually actually hearing that vibration which You know people would have evolved to not hear it but there would be this. This peculiar low level hummed. It's it's everywhere and so I started out thinking about it as being the discovery of the phenomenon but then I started thinking about. What would people do after they discovered it? So I had this idea about the flying sailing ships in the seventeen hundreds on I think probably because I started out with the idea of the enlight and then as the plot evolved it moved from the seventeen hundreds up to the regency. Because I I do dearly love Patrick. O'brien and so the Napoleonic wars in space but I like having. I like having a young adult main character. I like having a a female main character because life is harder for women especially in especially in in the past of of our cultures. And so putting you're putting your main character in a situation that is difficult is a way to make their story more interesting so basically making her female just made her life harder. And so that's how I came up with my main character and my setting and the rest of it kind of evolved through through discussions with other writers and mostly just kind of pulling things out of my tail. Because you know that's what fiction is is pulling stuff out of your tail and putting it on the page. There's a Canadian writer who has been mentioned a few times by Canadian writers who actually studied with the mechanics. Jane Dorsey had had actually. He's the met him. I think worked with him a bit. Not a science fiction writer. His name was w o Mitchell but he used to have a TV show where dramatized Some of his fiction and the name of the TV show was the magic lie which is a great a great Expression to describe fiction and I was glad you're talking about is being everywhere because when I do workshops and things at I did one not too long ago in fact I was talking about this and I said well look around the room. There are coathangers over there and I looked at the coat. Hanger I asked questions and I came up with a story idea based on coathangers so yeah. It's just a it's again. It's kind of that muscle exercise. I think. Yeah I do. I do a workshop called idea to idea to story in an hour and I usually do start off with something like that..

writer Patrick O'Brien editor England publisher Family Fortune Bella Jane Dorsey Larry Niven Gene Wolf Asia Robinson Co Walls N. Que Jemison Mitchell Mary Abella Rian Captain Nemo Hugo fever
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

01:42 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"I should mention that the world shapers papers is available locabil online at the world shapers dot com. You can also find the world shapers on twitter at the world shapers you can find and me online at Edward Willett DOT com. That's to Willett. You can find me on twitter at you. Will you can find me on facebook at Edward Don Willett. You can find the world shapers on facebook if you search for the world shapers podcast. There's also a facebook discussion group. If you'd like to talk about your favorite episodes it I should mention one. More time that the world shapers podcast is part of the Scotsman podcast network. We are supported by connects us the credit union. And I think that's probably everything I need to mentioned. Except reminds you again to watch out for an upcoming kickstarter for an anthology of stories stories from my first years guests and also potentially a nonfiction book which will compile some of the Writing advice that These guests have provided bear. That's definitely it for this week. So what's again. Thank you for listening to the world. SHAPERS PODCAST and I hope you'll come back like many times to listen to more talks with the wonderful authors who created the world's end characters such joy reading. That's at this time.

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

07:22 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"Return to the to the way I had felt when I was first writing and then I was Zabel's kind of renew my own right and so that's that's Where I'm at now and I've actually quite happily writing way on this new book and and I have another another book waiting and another editor? So if things work out I'll have this little cluster of about five books coming. Well counting ice V six coming coming out within a few years after very long period of not publishing much and that was actually my next question. You mentioned the Young adult book as one thing that was potentially coming up. And what are the other things that you're working on right now. There's a series of three mystery offals. That are kind of nameless slightly hard-bitten detective but what she has. A A bisexual downsized social worker with a cat Who called Bunny with? But he's only called bunny with issues to call him fuck wit them win her cousin. The born again Christian came to visit she she. She was insulted by the cat. Having an obscenity in its name so so she had to learn to call it funny wit and she's been unemployed for a year and things getting issues gotten down to her last bought sophisticates when someone offers her job that's related to a crime that's been committed and and she sewed it becomes was an unwilling unwillingly involved in the crime and it goes on from there so the first one is called the adventures of Isabel and all the chapter. Headings who taken can from the Ogden Nash poll the second one is called. What's the matter with Mary? Jane and all that set Headings taken from the a a mill poem and the third one is called that. I'm working on right now. Not sure if it's called the man who wasn't there or he wasn't there again today but it's the little little poem about as I was going up the stairs. I'm in a man who wasn't there. Wasn't there again today. Oh how I wish she'd go away And so so they're they're a bit of a series things happen As do happen in mystery series and they're also a little bit stylistically different with each one which is part of the fun and then so there's the WII which is called the story of my life ongoing and it's it's sort of it's it's a Pistola Tori and it has an Intersex teen whose going through some stuff but it's not about being intersex. It's about the stuff and another team that they meet. That's also going through stuff so We'll see how that goes and I wrote quite a long time ago so my struggle Douglas after update it for the modern much more aware era. Thirteen years later still. So there's three mystery novels is that then there's like the great great looming serious novel that I worked on for years which is now sitting with an editor who as usual is taking some time I probably should send them a message. saying I should mention to Wayne. Arthurs send the Edmonson mystery writer Decided added that he'd like to try being agent and he took on my mystery novels and he was on the place so it was his first deal as an agent. And my I deal with an agent so it was tremendously exciting moment and I also joked that I never thought I would actually get to say the words three book deal about my own books Because I'm not usually that kind of a writer I'm usually a slow one at a time writer let this was a bit different and and then I never mentioned the advances because I read all these stories in the American media about about six figure advances and I say well I got a six figure advance but it had a decimal point in it. Yeah I've gotten those and I'm actually happy with that because frankly so you want to earn your advance out. You don't WanNa be paid a huge amount of money and then what if the book doesn't sell enough to earn out then you have a bad reputation in the industry whether it's fair or on and I don't think it's fair so I'd rather have a small advance and then a success vote business for readers. I want to keep up with what you're doing. Can they find you online. And where can they find. You know. That's something that's a work in progress because of actually had a website and I was just about to wipe When wordpress updated broke it and I never got back to it so my my project object for the winter in order to avoid writing is I thought I would try to get my website back in order and start a bit of a blog and I don't know if what I will do is blog folk Things of interest a little rants or whether I would make it specific to process of writing and trying to accumulate enough of that material for a book. Or what and we'll see so can find me. Can you can find me in a search. But it's not going to give you an up-to-date website. It's going to give you a site. That the raiders. Union put up Years ago and and wikipedia entry. That's out of date and a little bit wrong not a lot wrong which teeny a bit. They don't allow you to edit your own and so I am certainly there. I'm I'm visible but you can find out how order my book though because it Most of the of the orders that PS publishing does our mail orders and so just look up PS publishing and ice the other stories and it is really a pretty book. So you will like I say this all your on your listeners. You will like I know. Well thanks so much for being on on the world shapers candice. It's been a great shop. Okay well thank you for letting me go on and on I really enjoyed it and and I looking forward to hearing it and the others so that you're talking about because you told me you have some great people. Oh coming up there and So it's always good to follow. Okay well thank you and bye for now bye. Thanks a lot. Thanks again to candy chain Dorsey for being my guest on this episode of the world. shapers I hope you enjoyed that chapter and I hope that you'll go back and check out to some of the previous yes Episodes of the world shapers if this is your first time listening There's forty one episodes now this one and so there's lots and lots of great material there Erin and many wonderful authors to To listen to and see what they have to say about their Writing Process there are many wonderful authors yet to come on the world-shapers Some of the people that I have coming up include. Let's see there's a healthy Kennedy Matthew Hughes Jeffrey Carver. IRA name in David P Levin and Tim Powers and some others that are in the works. So you won't want to miss any of those..

writer editor Zabel Ogden Nash Pistola Tori Isabel Matthew Hughes raiders Jane Mary Dorsey Douglas Union Jeffrey Carver David P Levin Tim Powers Arthurs Erin wikipedia Edmonson
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

12:19 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"I thought it was going to be a long short story. That was sort of a quest. Young woman goes off looking for her mother who went away when she was a child. All in a fantasy landscape and it was Marija Kolber when I was telling her about it. WHO said OAK candidates? This is the sounds like a novel and I was thinking. Oh no please no but yeah it was an all so I started typing in one day. Gone to my friends. Hey Bruce House on pender island for writing retreat. He had a lovely little cabin there. And I'm typing on my capable and all of a sudden the sentence I type like the first sentence I type that day it is. There's a mad woman in a cage in the courtyard now. This just came out of nowhere nowhere and luckily I was smart enough not to say to myself. Oh Oh this has nothing to do with what you're writing don't type any further and so I just kept typing and suddenly there was this. Is this young on woman with Amnesia. who was sort of a way figure and she was bringing this woman who'd and and they were talking in this language that the wave hadn't realized allies? She knew until she heard the women speaking at custom Nesia right and thinking what is this but something in me said this is part of your story story and that ended up being the first scene in the book once I had written all these pieces of book and then arranged them in a bunch of orders and and some of the order worked in some orders didn't and that ended up at. I seen how I got smart enough to. Just keep typing. I have no idea but what I have always been really grateful for it because many years later the novel emerged. That was that was the beginning of it. And then we we discover Later how it all fits with with quest girl and her mother and all the other people in the book and and it all kind of fits fits together. But you don't really find out 'til about page one hundred and even then speaking of the revision process David Hartwell Lot that novel for Tour Books Folks. That was funny too because he was buying a story of Mine and one of the forwards to the Ezra accent all ogies for his book. Northern Stars ars which was Canadian Science Fiction Anthology. He Co edited Glen Grant and it was just the first one anyway when my voice gets fades away there. 'cause I'm looking at my at my shelf of books if I can inside the spine of it but any case so he has me on the phone and I said David I found this novel sitting on my desk for like a year now and I don't know who to send it to you. Could you give me some some some hints. Some suggestions about who you think might want an to silence at the other end of the phone and then this exasperated aspirated voice says. Send it to me and I thought Oh yeah right. You know one of the most influential editor at the most influential publishing house. But I never thought of that and indeed did he bought it and What he the only real change he made was he said people have to wait 'til about page one hundred fifty one hundred and seventy ninety five to find out what's going on for sure? They're not gonNA wait that long. You have to move one of these scenes up a little earlier in the book so I moved it up to about page one hundred and then he said will you know and and so really. His editing consisted of move these things around a little. He was more active with the the second book because he would say things like these scenes are too long to fix them and I then figured out why and fix them but but the first book that it was almost almost nothing was changed it was just moved to and some on the level of the sentence some sentences were sounded sounded sounded off until they had smoother edges kind including that very first sentence. We've we've done our here so I want to wrap things things up but I have to wrap it up with the big philosophical question that I ask everyone and you spend a lot of time thinking about writing and you teach writing and so the the big question into simply why why do you right. Why do you think any of us right and specifically why do we write stories of the fantastic? But why do we tell stories. When I'm being flippant I say I right because there's only two things I do well on the other one was illegal to sell But no I think well. I know that it's human imperative to tell stories and to make sense of our environment through storytelling and through arranging things into story. There's even research this woman whose name I forget at the moment who who pioneered a lot of research into nursing practice using narrative inquiry quiry. which in itself is storytelling right? It's ask the nurses to tell the stories of the practice and she actually did a study where she particularly interviewed bad bad nurses and Ask Him the same thing. She asks the G The nurses in general studies and the the main findings she had was that bad. Nurses could not make narrative out of their experience. They could not tell the story of their nursing practice and this of course makes me think of in my social work years and childcare work years makes me think of the of dysfunctional families who would have secrets and lies is but they don't have stories that they pass on they don't have they don't know when the kids were born or when they moved here from Ontario or or wind so and so started school or whether whether they want an award or whatever worse certainly in my family those memories word dearly dearly kept and retooled as story so I think I think all humans try to make sense of their of their situation. You think about someone who was raised in a dysfunctional family family and they go to therapy. What's the first thing they tell them to do it? Tell him to tell the story. He's telling his story it. Sure is They tell them to to the first thing they do is to tell them to tell the story of their own lives so they try and put together a coherent narrative of of of their memories. And what happened to them and their lives. That's kind of storytelling to right. It's kind of making order out of the universe and I think like those of us who I well. I don't know if I can generalize but certainly when I look at the body of my work it's all about justice and injustice it's vote Hope and transformation because of things particularly when I was twenty years old. I got a job as a childcare worker for four years with teenage girls and and at that point I was still complaining about my family of origin. And how they were or whatever well no they weren't. They were brilliant. I mean there may have been some dysfunction in our family as there is in every family but I saw things that were horrifying and tragic rogic and just left me with enough anger basically fuel all the stories for life and to some degree. I'm still telling those stories stories. And I thought about John Gardner's book on moral fiction and how he talks about moral fiction is fiction that kind of seeks justice and fantasy novels are considered one of the kinds the quest novel or the good versus evil novel Mystery novels and romance so he talks thanks very specifically about the genres. Send the reason that they're so popular is because they restore order in the universe and in that way they they are not religiously moral but they are moral in the sense of a universal order an ethical way of living would have so. I think I didn't tell all stories to create order and restore order and give people hope that there are solutions and answers and that there are people like them and there are the things they can do in the world they don't have to be inert they can be agents of their own change and other people's change and I think at the base level that's why I tell stories the challenges not to tell lectures because I could give as I am doing now a little rant rant on why that's important or I could tell a story if I try to tell a story and all it is a rant. It's not a successful story. They have to put real people in a situation where their lives and and loves and emotional wellbeing physical wellbeing depend depend on on the resolution of these issues and that that and then becomes an allegory for other people who read it to say. I can submerge myself in this and I can I can see parallels to my own life and I can learn new things I do urge P P last thing I'll say is I urge people to have a look at in our field to have a look at John Klute an and his fellow editors John John Ground for one in John Grooten. Peter Nichols another the encyclopedia fantasy and the encyclopedia. AAC repeat of science fiction and there's a definition of fantasy in there. That has something that I say to all my writing classes. It talks about the progression of a story from an initial wrongness through a state of thinning. Where the world or the person's reality is is kind of thinned and hollowed out? And then income's a moment and this is beautiful sentence that I love and I might as well finish with this moment. Where the protagonist gazes upon the shriveled heart part of the thin world and knows what to do and that revelation is followed by a metamorphosis or set of actions? Does that lead to what it calls. The catastrophe spelled E. U. catastrophe like the good the good the resolution of the story basically and And that leads to a return a healing a a return of just governance all the things that we recognize fantasy but in my mind you can put any type of fiction on that on that lumine and look at that. Look at that journey and I often say to my students modern literary fiction especially the the what is sometimes called the MFA short story are are trapped in thinning. Every bit as much as the horror stories I so so literary fiction is to genre to and it fits in with his taxonomy so people WanNa know more about that they just should look at the encyclopedias online they can just look for the definition of fantasy and read the whole thing but I think that's why people tell stories certainly why I do you and for a while I was thinking was also the only thing I knew really how to do and how to earn money doing and And then and that was when I I started doing the literary art or the Visual Art because it was wordless I could paint things and and just feel the sense of of creating for the sake of creating and that created for me gave me a.

Canadian Science Fiction Antho Marija Kolber David Hartwell pender island John Gardner Nesia Bruce House Amnesia. editor Glen Grant Ezra Peter Nichols David I Ontario John Klute E. U. John John Ground John Grooten
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

12:04 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"Kind of story that I can read it and it makes me sniff a little bit commotion. And so I I like that Put a lot about what I what I talk about on. The podcast is You know the the process of creating stories and one of the great things about the story notes at the end of the book is that you you tell where these stories came from But but I don't know that I see a particular theme as to how ideas come to you. It looks like like many of us All sorts of things can spark a story idea news fair fair to say yes and and stories sort of start at different points to like I. I A have had stories and one of my novels started from a dream I had and the novel became a novel because it took that long to make the elements of the dream into a story that made sense in anything other than an emotional arc. So am I one of the things you need need to know about me is. I started writing short and rating longer and longer pieces. So it's like that Eastern European proverb. But how do you. How do you lift an ox? you start dates born in. You lifted every day so I wasn't natural novel writer and in general my processes sister start with a thing. And maybe you could think of it as I don't know if you save wrapping paper but Sometimes my family we did. And there'd be this big tangle of ribbon and you pull the end the ribbon and you just keep pulling it out and untangling doing it from all the stuff. That isn't that piece of ribbon. I and So I would assemble little pieces and move them around and it's only only later in my career. Have I written this jitter on purpose to see if I could written a book where I started with sort of the beginning. The the first scene and went in order to the end and that was that was the first mystery that I've just sold the series of three mysteries to EC w press us two of them are written and I'm supposed to be writing the third one probably right this minute when he and and but but the first one came from sort of an assignment I gave myself to. Just start at the beginning and right to the end and I. I probably also did that when I was working with North Abercrombie on the three day novel that we won But I had at least had someone there to help me. That was hardware angel. And so I'm I I. I think I've actually how Ford certain of my students by saying you know you don't have after right in order and you don't and you don't have to write fast is true that the industry demands A year from some kind of writers and and you can get into that rhythm once tutor you know once you have the experience but everybody is their own kind of writer and you just have to learn what kind you are which is not like I say to them. It's not an excuse to be lazy excuse to say well. I'm not going to do that because it's too much work and I'm not that kind of writer anyway. No No. That's that's not what I'm saying. But if if you're like me and you pay to know the ending like truly a truly find that if I have an entire outline line planned out before I start my impetus to write. Goes down to ten percent of what it was if that because I just I write to find out what happens happens and other people love the outlining and they put up their little index card and stuff and then they write for a while and of course then the characters take over and I and create chaos within the story in and so you know. There's a moment when I have to get organized. But it's usually when I've got quite a little quite a bit of stuff written and I have to think about what comes next in a more organized way but quite often my instinct for story will drive me down the road when I'm not even sure I should be including reading that in the book and it'll turn out to be the right thing. What is your actual like? Do you read and keyboard you right Longhand. Oh you haven't probably you'd like to work depends on what I'm let's depends on what I'm writing. I pretty much always write poems. uh-huh long hand and I do have beside my bed that I will occasionally write a scene down in but over the years I was an early adopter of computers. I was actually an early adopter of typewriters because my godfather gave me nineteen twenty two underwood when he got a A modern typewriter in the nineteen sixties. And I learned to type quite early And I understood judge that if I typed it right I would never have to type it again. And that was kind of powerful. When computers came out I was freelance lance writing and I pretended that it was all about my my business and it was a business decision but what it really was was? Oh my Gosh I get to do this. Where if I do it right I will never have to retype another manuscript and I can do this cutting and pasting stuff than I can do this? Alteration stuffers tremendously endlessly exciting. So my first computer west. This twenty six pound K.. Pro just considered portable in those days made by an Oscilloscope company and And Yeah Ten inch screen and I the first one had sixty three K.. Of Memory and then you put a floppy Disk GonNa to save your files and the floppy disks were five and a quarter inch and then they got a hard dry. It was ten whole megabytes. I thought I would never need another storage device in my life it. It was so exciting anyway so I was an early adopter so I I got trained pretty early to type stuff. So for the pros rose. I generally tend to type but if something strikes me I have a good idea. While I'm you know just about to go to sleep I will. I will grab the notebook. And and and and then transcribe later but I know people who still write like their first draft Felton thin and I in in one of the courses that teach. I I have to talk about this There is actually science to say that writing on a keyboard. If you're taking notes give you less retention been writing by hand now. I don't know what yeah but I don't know what that means for if you're generating I do know that if I were a better tie. Thus there are all sorts of cool techniques that people that I know have done to to make their first drafts were better and one of them is a woman. I knew who turned off or monitor for the first draft but she was a good enough typist that what was their made sense when she turned them what it back on where his terrible typist. And I'm always correcting and I look at. You know I look at the screen and the keyboard all the time in terrible you know I i. I never learned any of the typing techniques the attitude to typing that they had then was it led to a standard graphic career so girls. It didn't take typing and I was very careful not to cross that line but I kind of regretted it because And I want to write but my sister taught me who had taken typing taught me taught me to type on my underwood when I was a little kid but I had such week like tiny Hanson. And you have to lift the carriage return or the capital key. The shift key was a literal shift. And and you had to push wish it down. It was very heavy so as a result I never learned to type with the right fingers but it doesn't really matter. I think that the computer has been so helpful for so many. Because it's a like writing by hand you can write things that aren't in order you can go back and forth you can cut and paste. You can add things you could move lots lots of texts. Dukedom copy things you can keep ren- people who write scrivener can keep files on all their characters and and on all their settings and and all their research in the same place I mean. It's just it's it's quite marvellous and I think it actually helps the creative process. Have that kind of freedom the crown from any airy. What does your revision process look like car? Is it all kind of the unit where you just work away at it and take shape and then it's done. Do you ever go back and start at the beginning and do it completely writer. How does that work for you? I am not a complete rewrite person. I. I hate to talk about this because I don't think it's common but but the thing that I write down by the time I write it. Down is very close to the end thing. So my revision consists of fiddling around a little bit like I hardly hardly ever have hardly ever in my whole career taken ASEAN and just accident and written a whole new seen But I might put something aside. The doesn't seem to fit more often than not. They have very very little of that. have to try this lying around in my hard. Drive it some to talk about my own process. I WanNa talk about my partner Timothy Anderson's process because he can be quite infuriating to sit across the room from while he's he's writing and I'm writing because he he has everything in his head and he types out like he doesn't it's not conscious he's he's not walking around saying Oh this character needs to do this but somehow there's this this story buildup that goes on in his head it's way more conscious than it is in mind. And when he's when he has some time he sits down from across and he can type fast so he can write four to twelve thousand words in a day if that's all he's doing because he just types it's obsolete it's just so infuriating the aid because I go type type type. Silence silence silence type type. Silence type bit silence but When I put on paper it's as part of my mind is doing the same? This is putting the story together. But it's not doing it in my conscious sight so when I type hype. What I've had to learn is to just trust to type? What's their what's coming out and see what fits later and especially with novels novels? I remember your listeners. Might or might not know that the novel I'm best known for is called black wine and it's Around complicated fantasy novel in which a number of braided stories turn out to be related in the end. And.

writer underwood Ford ASEAN North Abercrombie Felton ren partner Timothy Anderson
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

13:27 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"All of them were science fiction and fantasy really or slipstream or kind of surrealism. Or whatever. There they were. There wasn't much in the way of of realism. But I just thought of myself. Best as a writer no not not particularly as a writer and I didn't have any trouble with those markets. Either like you know. There's a certain kind of town and gown kind of thing. You know the Limerick Eric World looks down on us. But I've I've been. I had no hesitation in submitting to those markets getting published places like come. I'm a room of one's own and Perry fire and Various magazines that no oh longer exists of blue buffalo and solar And I also had no hesitation in applying for grants. I just thought well I'm a writer. That's bigger therefore and I would apply by large I would get them. I think You know the odds of getting a literary grant who somewhere between one and six and one in Tannan probably more by now but I figured that was pretty good odds for spending an afternoon on an application and so I would say that I probably go out over half of those that I applied for and was fairly philosophical about the ones. I didn't definitely urged you know if listeners are Canadian writers almost all the provinces and the candidate council have these grant programs and many cities do as well now I live in Edmonton Edmonton Arts. Council has grant programs and I would really urge people to apply and not be not be weird and river snobby about about about how those are for literary writers they will discriminate. They're all decided by juries. The jury is differ from time to time so when jury may love your work the other jury may put you a little bit below the red line you have to think of it as buying a lottery ticket in essence you then you forget about it and if a nice letter comes in the mail down the road yeah you won the lottery if it doesn't then okay you hadn't counted on it anyway and you know I don't. I don't think artists have a right to I mean. I think we're very lucky to have a grant system but I have to recognize that historically the state as it were and private patrons who had a lot of money where the where the reasons why the arts even got made us think about the renaissance and all those huge paintings of of Saint Sebastian taken on the arrows that are now in the Louvre. They were all in private castles and artists went from castle to castle making their daily bread by painting or they wrote a A long poem and they dedicated it to the guy who was gonna pay for it right and I don't think that government is the best patronage system there is because it's object so I really strongly feel that developing writers should look at all the options nation. Think of themselves. As being especially developing speculative writers developing genre writers. They shouldn't think of themselves themselves as being the little match girl outside the outside the House while party goes on inside. We're all part of the same thing. Well well let's move onto a your current collection of short stories. Your first book was a collection of short stories. That machine machine sex and other stories and now you have ice and other stories which also starts arts with machine sex but I know you can't really synopsys short stories but tell us about the book. Well mm book started as all the stories that had been in something but not in a book so we're thirteen or fourteen in stories and every couple of years I'd get a story published a very slow and And sometimes that was because of life and reasons and sometimes it's just 'cause it takes takes me awhile to develop a story so So I had these stories and I went through a period when my mother was aging and she was in a nursing home and I I had some health issues and it wasn't the best time for getting things go into the world but I had this collection so every now and then I would I would think about poor. Should I send and it's hard to get short story. Collections published it some. It's not easy to style them so only certain publishers want to do do them so I did Ursula flu. Did a book of short stories with PS publishing in England Pete and Nikki. crowder run it and they do these beautiful hardcovers and they do a limited assigned limited edition and so on and she asked US meteorite the forward or it so then I was in touch with these people and they seemed And then I went to the London world corn and there were other books and they were just beautiful beautiful. There wasn't a small literary press death. Wish cover among them. They were all just beautiful and beautifully produced reduced in a lot of hardcovers and And they were really sincere people and I still can't figure out their business model because they do these beautiful books in small editions they bind them beautifully. The signed editions are still well within a collectors. Regular collector's some budget and And they ship their authors copies to me without charging for shipping being so. I'm kind of amazed that they're at their business model but dog cocoa so I got in in touch with them and I sent them a a manuscript in the Nate gevers is the is the short fiction editor that works with them and he lives in South Africa. Gotcha and nothing really happened to this book for a while and so finally when I was In a little bit or state ice accent reminders. Saint Louis is guys book and he sent me back a message interesting. My mother had just died. Which is why and I was sort of getting back? Knock into into having more time in my life and and So he sent a letter about letter in his mother had also been in care and and dying and at a similar elderly age in their nineties and And so he said I I haven't read Reggie manuscript yet but I will and within a week I had a publication offer So so that was that started out one of the New Year's very well and then we worked on what what stories from previous books might be known to people that we should put in. To a retrospect because as his thirty years of stories they wanted a new story took me awhile. I must say But so then what would be kind of the first one so we decided to put machine sex learning about machine. Sex Is it's real name put that into it as the first story. Because that's the story of mine the has been most anthologized and we've put in sleeping in a box which won the what was then the Casper award in is now the Aurora Award and And there were a couple of others that that I felt kind of still had still should be seeing there and we ended up with. I think it's twenty one stories now if I'm not mistaken For a while was seventeen and then it increased again And basically they cover thirty years and so when I was writing writing the notes for it I started writing the notes with a little bit of an eye toward the history. So if you read the notes you get a little bit of the secret history of Canadian sa by talking there about about the SF Canada workshop in nineteen eighty. Six heater borough and Michalski was there. I was there Sean part trying to remember Pearl Schroeder. Anyway have all the names in the book and there were eight people there and they're very spouses or slow. Flu was there Wendy Pearson was there. Who's now mainly an academic? But she was writing fiction in those days. She's Western University of Western Ontario. I think think it is and her partner. Susan cannot be who's also an academic in the field now and I was there with her baby and her husband. Who's the filmmaker and Michael was there and learn tulips course librarian at the Merril collection for all those years? was there when she could be she at the work and Judy Merrill ran it. So that was then a man Things have changed considerably considerably over the time and so each we decided to arrange the stories in chronological order by publication. And just I would talk about about what was going on at the time in the notes. So it's been actually I think an interesting exercise if people really want to start thinking about How how the network fit together? who was who was helping whom who was talking to him in the field They will find find some good information in the back pages there and also they'll find all these thirty years of short fiction and and the last story is actually brand new story probably it has some I mean I. I know that some of my stories were more intense than others and And there's some that I particularly love the one that I wrote for Ursula Flu Anthology and Carol Carleen Anderson sent volatility playground of Lost Toys. is is one that I'm particularly to kill proud of it's a it's a real example of me as a slow writer though because I started writing that story when Nello Hopkinson put without a call for her anthology called Mojo conjure stories which were stories about in essence everyday magic and people doing folkloric magic and it always bugs me that Writers in the fantasy field. We'll we'll swiped the folklore of other people and turn it into their plot devices and they won't look necessarily to their own hair heritage. 'cause you know Wendy Indigo is cool. So I'm going to write a story but Winco kind of thing and some of those stories you need to be given and if you given them if you do the work if you go the people who own them and you ask then that's a different matter but just to say oh I think is really interesting that you know who says this or you. You know kanton blade is based on this. And I'll just use it in my in my story You're walking the fine line between Colonialism or imperialism of some kind and and true mosh and so I I would look at. What's kind of magic that my people would do? You know I'm a third or fourth generation settler on the prairies from Scots English background. Almost almost completely that. I'm I have a few random I have. I probably a random mennonite several couple of hundred years ago and and so on. But it's mostly Scots and English. So I'm saying can what let what's the heritage I have and I and so I started thinking about my relatives and and the kinds of things that prairie the people do like make flapper pie and eat kraft dinners and put together Jigsaw Puzzles and where legs pantyhose and I we're at the dollar store and and so on and an I crafted those into a story about. What would the every day magic doc be for for those people so it's around putting together? Jigsaw Puzzles Nate's magic and it ended up being a lovely story but it was also like many years after Mojo conjure stories was gone and published and so on and it just never made it so when playground lost toys came along. I figured Jigsaw Puzzles. Equal Toys. Hey and I finished the last little bits of it and send it in and I'm very pleased.

writer Jigsaw Puzzles Edmonton Edmonton Arts Ursula flu Saint Sebastian Eric World Tannan Perry US Flu Aurora Award Winco Mojo Nate gevers Carol Carleen Anderson Saint Louis Michalski Western University of Western Wendy Indigo
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

13:20 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"Part. I think a lot of the challenge of writing as you like you said you have to have some sort of ego there that makes you keep doing it and doing it and doing it as in thinking you can go to know somebody eventually is going to recognize what you're doing and you're writing. Yeah and you're writing a thing that's important to be written. You're not wasting your time and so on right so so yeah so it kind of interests me you know and I try to. I had some really really encouraging right on teachers and I had some that basically believe that the way went about it was extremely tough love and that and the They would just well was one particular. He would discourage anyone each. You're wasting your time. Don't do this kind of thing. And what I discovered is that the encouraging kind of teacher is not going to bring people into the field for bad at it because the field. We'll just will call them out but they will do is bring people into the into the field who need encouragement in in the word courage is in that that word encouragement who need the courage of their own of their own conviction to get into their career so The kind of tough love writing the teacher only is only good for the goose or the stubborn people or the people. Who's WHO's kind of social fight flight responses responses to fight back but there are a lot of writers who are who are her quiet and who don't want to have a public fight but they want to right and so I think when I'm teaching I try to indicate to people that you know the world of writing and and readers and of publishing is going to is going to narrow you down into the people who are going to get accepted and so you know obviously for them a part of their careers to just get better at doing that thing until they get good enough to pass the bar but But I don't sort of sit them down and say hey you should really open a seven eleven because you can't you can't decide for other people how they're going to carry out that drive and whether they're going to whether they're going to fix all the technical errors because they're so driven like some writers that I have known that I have taught who you you would have thought would be Would never get anywhere. Because they had so many technical errors but they fixed them all because they loved Loved Riding Well and I'm done quite a bit of breading teaching as well and I do try to be the on the encouraging signs myself on currently writer in residence at the SASCHA tune public library. So it's very much people coming in at all different levels of of ability and sometimes I see stuff and I think there's just no way but but I I tell them what I think could make it better and try to be encouraging because you know you never know when I you know. I don't on hold back. I if I see somebody with a lot of technical errors I will say to them. You must fix these because otherwise you will have of a mistrial time being reject but you know once. They know they have to fix them. There's no reason why can't I mean I know it sounds kind of like I don't know what it sounds like but you know basically I have seen people coming up into by writing classes for the past few years who have been taught By the whole language or process learning approach and they really don't know their their own written written language and they're terribly disadvantaged but they have the same desire to do the work and to end to tell the stories as as the other the writers have had and so. I've often had to say it's not your fault. It's it's it's how you were taught but you will have to learn this and and many of them do because they understand that it's it's a tool it's is there. It's their technology languages. They're technology and they need to use it to do within WanNa do and I I find that pretty pretty Encouraging I guess because I knew all the stuff very early and I was also taught I was I was schooled at time where you were drilled in all the all the rules of grammar so when I sit down to write I'm extraordinary. Lucky that my sentences come out as proper sentence right so I can start kind of down the road if I if I didn't have that the lies still would probably we have the The the impulse. I just have to do do more work so you know even even people people who come to the task with technical skills that need improving I have seen them. I mean I. It's not just sort of a greeting card here. I have seen them improve and become published writers and I've seen others who had great skills but they didn't have kind kind of the fire they didn't want to do the extra work to do a second draft and they're they're extremely promising stories didn't even go as far as the other ones. So this at this point after having taught since nineteen eighty three different writing classes and started and sent many of my classes I send them off to be writing groups I've decided you can't you can't predict which horse is gonNA finish the race. You just count so you give everyone the same skills and encouragement and then tell them. It's a tough business and so you have sorry. Just give me a second okay. Try that sentence again Tell him it's the business and that they have opt to meet a quality standard but And that they're gonNA have to learn a lot of that on their own and and I think it's a much much better way to to prepare them for the writing world then to try and be mean to them now. We maybe little dog the he won't be the first Animal noises in the background. John Sculley had cancer going in the background. And somebody else did too. So it's not uncommon And Peter v Brett had somebody doing construction work outside his window so So you studied English and drama and university and also social social work were you. When did you start writing for publication or attempting to to be published break in I? I started writing Souder Asli in high school and in the first couple of years of university and my mother actually talked me into stay university after the first year rather than going walkabout so many students did in the seventies because w will Mitchell was coming to. I teach writing at the university and so I did today in my second year and took classes from Doug Barber who you know through it is working the science fiction field and And that's who introduced me to Ursula Gwynne and Samuel Delaney in a big way. I mean my father had been in a big science fiction reader and I think I'd read the grinned before but some of the others I had Alfred Bester Joanna Russ Elise amazing writers. He had done his thesis. Che's on seventy one so You know people listening to your podcast will realize how long ago now ancient I am I'm not that old by feel I feel it sometimes any case so so I went back. I studied with Mitchell who it was a wonderful teacher. He was he was nurturing but demanding in a really wonderful away and And he never forgot anything or anyone so I would meet him years later and he would say kid. It didn't quit. It didn't quit. That was his big thing. Never quit says keep writing. Keep doing it and I remember one time. I asked a letter of reference for a grant I was applying for and I remember him saying. I don't know my letter might be the kiss of the death kid guys you know. I'm just not now. They don't I don't think they like me that much. I'm saying I don't know they him. But any case I think I got the grant so I think he wasn't the kiss of death but He was he was a lovely guy. A Doug Barbara White Pelham in those days and he'd Gotten Samuel Delaney for instance to write for White Pelican. I think yeah I still have that somewhere That issue and He and and some other people got together and started newwest press. George Melnyk had started at the newest review and the newest institute which were to study sort of western Canadian culture and I went to the first newest form. On the arts Rudy Rudy Weaves Strawberry Creek Lodge when the lodge wasn't what had just was just barely completed in have carpets or you know all the amenities but there was and we looked at you know Question I mean this is in in the nineteen seventies and we're talking about in indigene eighty and and Somebody had made a film about Spring burning I'm for for Ecological reasons interest nations before settlement. And just all sorts of very cool stuff so they decided to start a press so Got Aboard together and they started newwest Pratt's which is of course still in existence and the very very first book they did was called getting here getting here getting there no getting here and it was it was a book of Edmonton Writers. All of whom were women as I recall. it's way up too high on the shelf to reach verify this for sure they know that Yeah I I'm pretty sure it was all all women. Women Writers in that was the point and Doug edited or co edited. And that was I had had some other things published in things like the the university a newspaper and so on but that was sort of the first time a story was anthologized and it was a science fiction story of sorts. It's kind of slipstream. Science Fiction story which was called you'll remember mercury which was aligned from from someone's palm who had written a kind of a very creepy almost horror like poem where the astronauts come to mercury and they get changed and and and transformed in ways that they perhaps didn't intend in the last line was. Oh yes you'll remember mercury so I'd written the story which was quite Quite I guess a little surreal but it took all the science fiction tropes and it had them in there You know the faster than light travel list they ship captain the etcetera etcetera around and In eventually what it was was In essence was a spaceship full of outcasts including first nations people. And so on who were making a gesture against what we today call colonialism. I guess and who who have the spaceship and who who ceremonially dive into the heart of the sun on And you know I was twenty right and so So that was my first kind of breakout and I had a lot of stories. Published in literary magazines.

writer Samuel Delaney Mitchell John Sculley Doug SASCHA Alfred Bester WanNa Edmonton Writers Souder Asli Doug Barber Doug Barbara White Pelham Rudy Rudy Che newwest Pratt George Melnyk Peter Strawberry Creek Lodge Ursula Gwynne White Pelican
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

13:32 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"Most shared them with the teachers I I had. I had only a very few classmates that had good friendships with and and I got a little better but I was one of those kids who was who was alone owned by circumstance rather than by choice in school. I was sick a lot away a lot And when and I was there I was often ridiculed and called the teacher's pet because I actually read the read the books and did the assignments and so on but I did It's kind of interesting. I have been teaching this course for Metro. Continuing doing education called introduction to creative writing and a couple of years ago. They move the classroom that they use because they use school classrooms at night right They moved it to the place where I went to high school and I realized when I went in there that had been fifty years ago. This was quite Quite a shock to my system. Because I I don't really tend to think of myself as old enough to have had you know a span of fifty years of a sort of higher consciousness you know As opposed to you know Vague League memories from long ago but indeed I am and so there I was in the school which although it had been renovated in terms of paint job and new doors new lockers Visually is very much the same. And it's the school where well okay to start that sentence in a different place. I started school when I was four. I think my mother was sort of glad to get me out of the House because I service very talkative questioning kid and and probably quite tired but anyway and she also recognized I could already read and was interested in stuff and so she talked school into taking meal little bit early and so when I got to high school I was a little younger Analytical and a lot less cool than the popular kids but high school was a place that had things like the newspaper club and the debating club and the reach for the top team and places where My particular kind of weirdness was actually valued for Jake so that was quite nice but also so I had a great ten English teacher who was awesome. Just awesome. She was herself an artist. I've found later she. She was a talented violinist. She had her first recital and she was very young and it. Was You know a big sensation around town and I know this in part because Sadly I just last week attended her. Her funeral service she was ninety one woman. She died and So she was forty when she was teaching me and she just had she had had a warmth and a an a an interest in her students. That meant that she actually recognized me as having potential or having something to do and she showed an unfailing interest in my writing and then she took my little bundle of my writing and she sent it off to Mel Hurtig who at that point was running his bookstore in Edmonton you. Later of course became a publisher and published a bunch of Canadian. Amazing Canadian classics like so many of the works of writers in the Nineteen Seventies. He published published Minneola freemen's life among the cows and he published stories from our side from Hang your tongue and he published a a number of books of the artists up there in the memoirs. He also published the Canadian encyclopedia but in those days he's still ran his bookstore. Doc Store and if you've ever been to Audrey Edmonton. He sold his bookstore to two women named Audrey who worked for him. And that's why Audrey Greece which is Edmonton's only general independent bookstore at the moment that's why they have no apostrophe in their name because it means the two arteries but so that was later so there I went and she sent me downtown to talk to him and his bookstore? He had this big bookstore and then there was a a little raised like three steps up section at the back where his desk was and there. I went grade ten self so I'm like fourteen fifteen years old and I'm Shy and nervous and This just wonderfully kind and intelligent man man greets me and talks to me a little bit about about writing and then and books and then he sent me over to the university. I to a professor of children's literature named Alison Whyte who who welcomes me and gave me some books and read my poems uh-huh and talk to me about them and then by then it was summer and I got the excitement of going sort of all by myself on the bus which was kind of a big deal for me because yes. I didn't go out much in that way Over to the university and into one of the historic buildings there were her office was and and have this as you know exciting moment of recognition and I have to say that it changed and possibly even saved my life and my sense of self to actually be seen at that point and I don't know about you but those years of thirteen seventeen are not not my favorite ears in memory really aren't they were the time of maximum. Well thought ought to be euphemistic maximum misery so she she certainly changed my life and she may have saved it in a kind of metaphysical way because she he really gave me to understand that. At some point down the road life would be different and interesting and I might have have something to say to the world so it was. It was I was thinking about all this this week because of course it was a bit of a a shock to realize that that was years ago in that she had just died and I have met her since then been able to express my appreciation. Thank goodness us but then I went to the service and there was her daughter who was her only child who looked very much like she looked when I knew her first and so it was kind of an interesting conversation and I think I was the only person there who was from her teaching life And I you you know I saw it in the paper but so so I was sort of brought all this up from memory and and talked to them about like her her her sister and her daughter and her nephew were there and they invited me to sit at the table. It was a Ukrainian funeral. So there was. Is this absolutely delicious meal lunch. Sit Down Lunch afterwards of of the Alberta Ukrainian fair air which is cabbage rolls and and Meat and chicken and Solan. So was this hearty Wonderful lunch and then just being able to tell her family something about what what she was like for for us students so that was cool. I was GONNA say a lot of a lot of writers. Have somebody like that in their past. I think that one person that may be made them realize maybe this was you know there was some value there and what they were doing and maybe they had some some talent in that area. Yes yes and I've come to think I teach a lot of introductory writing courses and a and I generally teach pretty much the same thing each time. But that's because I think there are a few basics people need to know and then they just need to get out there right but But but I I think about what what is the nature of a writer in general and I think that writers are peculiar. Combination of service and Eagle I was in. I was in theater when I was in school. I took drama classes. I when the local flagships theaters called the citadel. I went to drama classes there. I grew shows I I was GONNA be in technical theatre when I realized realized couldn't act very well I I went into technical theater and and there were some opportunities that now kick myself I mean I could have could have been a stage aged designer by now or and had a completely different life because Phil Silver. The stage designer at the time who later went on to Stratford and other other heights invited me to be his model maker. which is a bit like saying you can apprentice with me? And I I was young Kinda stupid and I decided I. Who's GonNa you know back to university and save the world? I don't know what I decide. That was. That was a long time ago. Do but I didn't do it so so I was in in theater and I began to realize that the talents that I loved Improv but I was not good at preparing preparing a role and losing myself in the role and I realized that the thing that was wrong with that was the losing myself and I had this conversation with Guy Called Edward. ITN's WHO's a WHO's a tenor he came to Edmonton to do the Lord High Executioner in the Machado when my partner was Sir was the sidekick you know I can remember the news pixel cocoa and ooh Coco Cocos the main character cushioning and the coupon fish. I wish I played. Yeah okay well you guys could get together have a little reunion in. Then you know. Put your arms over each other's shoulders and sway back and forth and seeing the cottle's long but anyway So so there was Edward Don's and we were at the first night it already and I happened to get seated next to him but I don't know how we started trading biographies try find common ground but for some reason I made this mention of having been involved in theater but realizing it wasn't performing was not I wasn't temperamentally for mentally suited to any other performance Improv and He said that's really interesting because when he was in university he he had wanted to be a writer like while his teenage years and he'd gone and he was he was British so he'd gone to university to prepare for this and realized what he was there that he couldn't stand the kind of Vulnerability that you harvest us a writer. He couldn't put himself out there. Even in fiction. You have a kind of vulnerability when you write it. And and that just didn't suit him and so he moved over into performing because he he could take his creative impulses and clothed them in having a role and And and so there were these two people who had basically gone opposite Directions had kind of criss crossed over basically basically gone opposite directions and had criss crossed over In order to to find the thing that that suited their temperament. Let's see 'cause even when I was a even when I was a very unhappy little kid I was not i. I was quite confident that I would grow up and I would have a life and it would be an interesting life and it would be full of writing and I find that kind of interesting that I that I never really delegated that part. I doubted my ability to write. Well I had all the usual Austin and worry that that that young writers have but I also had some peculiar kind of confidence or ego. That kind of saw me.

writer Edmonton criss Mel Hurtig Audrey Edmonton Audrey Audrey Greece Vague League Minneola freemen Alison Whyte Doc Store Nineteen Seventies ITN publisher Alberta Ukrainian Jake Austin professor Phil Silver
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

12:39 min | 1 year ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"Welcome to another episode of the world. SHAPERS podcast right talked to other science fiction fantasy authors about their creative process. I'm Edward will attend. I say other science fiction fantasy authors because I am myself an author of science fiction and fantasy some twenty novels at this point a lot of those republished by Don Books. My main publisher New York and my latest book is master of the world which is booked to in a new series called world-shapers which yes that's where this podcast got. Its is named from very briefly. The World Shaper series is set in a vast labyrinth of shaped worlds. The people who shaped hills worlds live inside them the shapers they were all placed there by the mysterious hair and they all came from our World War. I world originally in the first book my main character. Shana keys discovers that she's a shaper apor after mysterious and things happen and a Guy Carl Yasser shows up and explains to her. What's going on and tells her that he thinks from the power she's shown in her world world she might be able to save all of these shaped worlds from the adversary who has now entered Shawna's world and his cousin? All these horrible things to happen. He says the her world has lost. She has to get out of it. But if she can go from world to world and gathered the knowledge of their shaping and deliver that to a rare somewhere at the center of the Labyrinth and she can save all the shaped worlds. It's in their billions of inhabitants from possible destruction. So that's the first book they have to get out of her world which is much like our world but quite the same and in the second book. Shawna ends. It's up in a Jules Verne. Inspired World shapers a big fan of Jules Verne. So if you read the master of the world you will encounter mysterious flying machines Submarines Floating Islands and all that steam punky goodness. The third book is called the Moonlit World. I'm finishing it up now. It will be out to this coming fall and it's it's well my working title fit for longtime where Wolves Vampires and peasants. Oh my so that gives you some hint of. It's going to be happening in book. Three of the world shaper series. I should say just world-shapers this is the world shapers. It's just world-shapers the big distinction. There I should mention before I go much. Further that The world checkers. PODCAST is a member of the Scotsman podcast network which is supported by connects US credit union. And I wanted to let you know about a couple of other things coming up related to the podcast before we get to this episode's guest. I still have hope. And I'm working toward Lord launching a kickstarter in the not too distant future. This is Approaching January as I finish off this episode but the not too distant future I hope to Launch a kickstarter to fund an anthology featuring some of my guests from the first season and people who've said they're interested include. Oh Sean Maguire Tanya huff and people people at that level so You hopefully if I get that off the ground you'll be able to to kick in and and help support that. I also hope in the not too distant future future to perhaps publisher my own publishing company shadow pop press a nonfiction book which will compile some of the writing advice that I've heard I heard from my guests again in the first year of the podcast. So that's GonNa take a lot of work and I am a one man operation but I still hope to make that happen in the not too distant and future as well. I think that's enough Talking about me and my projects. Let's get onto this episode's guest Candice Chain Dorsey. Kansas John Dorsey. The internationally known award winning author of Novels Black Wind Originally published by tour and paradigm avert also from tour incoming mystery series the adventures of Isabel. What's the matter with Mary? Jane and the man. who wasn't there which will be coming up from E C W press and the upcoming why I why a novel level the story of my life ongoing by CJ Cobb? She's also had several short story. Collections published including machine sex and other stories darker dreams Vanilla and other stories and ice and other stories which is what will be focusing on primarily in this podcast. She's also had for poetry book. Several and policies edited and Co edited numerous published stories poems reviews and critical essays. She's been an editor and publisher for many years She teaches writing to adults and youth. She was the founding president address at Canada's she's been president of the Writers Guild of Alberta. She's received a variety of awards. Honors including in two thousand five the province of Alberta Berta centennial gold medal for her artistic achievement and community work and in two thousand seventeen the WG Golden Pen Award for lifetime achievement in the Literary Arts and she was inducted into the city of evident arts and Cultural Hall of fame in Twenty Nineteen. There's quite a few other awards and she's also a community. Activists Advocate could end leader. Who has won two human rights award served on many community boards and committees working for neighborhoods Heritage Social Planning and human rights advocacy? Welcome welcome to the world shapers. Thank you we've We have known each other for. I always start the podcast by trying to make a connection but in our case we've we've known each it for quite a long time at this point haven't we. I've leave so I I believe we could measure that in numbers of decades now. It's getting there for sure. And of course I've also been plugging a windward which was where I asked you to be on the podcast this year. Because it's a it's a great writing convention that I found several of my guests over the last couple of years are at and I do like to tell people about it because I think it is really It's always a fun weekend for me anyway anyway. Well it's always nice to go somewhere Where where you're recognized the doing the thing you think of as primary you know we do so many things to make a living but not all Things that we want to remembered for in the annals of history. I'd say you know whereas when you go to win words lied. It's about writers and being writer sent and and it's It's like your primary environment. You get to submerge yourself in talking to people about books. I think it's marvelous. Carla and Should mention for anyone who is interested that it is a win words collide dot org website if you want to check it out not when worlds collide when words collide dot org. So we're gonNA talk about Your clicks or short stories ice and other stories which came out last is November. And that's a little different because we normally talk about novels on here. But that's good because Short fiction is an you know a its own thing which I think maybe I should talk about more on the world shapers Before we do that I would like to take you back back into the mists of time which is becoming becoming a cliche on here because I say that to everyone To find out how you became interested in writing In general but also how you became interested in writing stories the fantastic and a little bit about where you you grew up and all that sort of thing okay. Well I'm one of those rare people who was born and grew up in in the place that I still live which is Edmonton Alberta Canada. And I I have never really left cranny period of time. Although I've traveled a lot I was the In a family of three children and it was it was a reading. And it's doing things family. My father had a day job but he was what he really was was the musician. My mother was an US kind of self taught historian who turned that into an entire career after I was in high school and It was also very much a secret visual artist. She never did much with it but she loved it and in her her later years. She decided that she was just going to do it. So it was kind of an interesting group of Group of individuals. My brother is him him as a professional musician and is also a visual artist and my sister was kind of a philosopher really but but She she had a day job editing for hand student and She also did. Did you know she's saying choir. She cheat made things with primitive Japanese woodworking working tools just to see if she could and that sort of thing so was Of course we were all great readers so one of the problems. I had as a kid when when I came along I was nine years after my sister and eight years after my brother they had taken up a number of the art forms and I was acutely conscious of the competition factor and so I think without really I I already loved reading and I was reading and writing above grade level so it was fun to show off to write things but but I really began to realize that I loved it and it was also feel where where I could dumb. Just go to town without worrying about an older older sibling competing so I kind of dove into that in my school years but by high school I really was kind of committed to it and and Started to really take it quite seriously. And I have a sideline in visual art which I did then and then kind of stopped doing for a number of years and just in the last ten or twelve years. I've started doing visual art again and selling paintings so But if that's that's more of what what the my my students these days call a side hustle and the writing is always the thing so I've been a writer and an editor. I've also run the Book Publishing Company with a group of other people that That included for awhile tesseract books. The Canadian science fiction and fantasy press we bought from Beach Home Publishing and and later sold to edge publishing and We ran that for about nine years. And I've also run an arts newspaper and and I teach writing Both to various continuing education like the universe developed BERTA and and The local school board has something called Metro continuing education and I also teach in communication studies at mccune university For the the last few years and somewhere in there also got an MFA. I thought it might be a good credential to have and by then it was kind of interesting because I had more books published thin about half of my professors and of that half of those minded and a half of them didn't so it was kind of a fun experience into academia discover the politics Sarah but I enjoyed it for the most part and That's where I wrote wrote for young adults for the first time to children and young adults writing course from Glam user and realized that I actually had voice in my ahead for that so That book if I if I actually signed my contract and send back and work out a few technical issues that it should be coming out next year year after year will start to talk about that a little later on to when you were starting out writing as a young one person. Did you share your writing with you. Know you said you liked to show off a little bit. Were you sharing your writing with classmates and that sort of thing. I always ask that because I think it's important to get that audience feedback when you're starting out and realize that you can tell stories that people like that's certainly what I did kind of what they'd be thinking. Oh maybe I really can't do this..

writer publisher US Jules Verne Shawna editor and publisher Don Books Shana keys president Edward Book Publishing Company Carl Yasser Candice Chain Dorsey New York Sean Maguire Beach Home Publishing Lord Isabel
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

01:54 min | 2 years ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"The world shapers is online at the world shapers dot com. That's the website you you can find it on twitter at the world shapers and you can find it on facebook to the world shapers <hes> google the world shapers podcast. You should find it without got any trouble. I am also online of course as you might expect. <hes> you can find me at edward willits dot com. EDW ARD w. I l. l. e. dot com. You can find me on twitter at e willett e. w. I l. l. e. T. t. and you can find me on facebook. At edward. Don willett you can also so find me on instagram but i'm not very active there. I still haven't quite figured out how to make that work for me but <hes> i am on there. If you want to check it out that's another episode of the world shapers eighty percent a mini more great episodes to come lined up quite a few guests that i'll be talking to very short order here. <hes> there's lisa kessler who is a paranormal romance romance writers so that's a little different. She's coming up next after that. We've got people like <hes>. Tim pratt to susan j forest garth nix very excited about that one <hes> james alan gardner candice jane dorsey. I may be forgetting somebody but there's some great guests still to come and i hope view will come back and listen to all of these episodes and also go back and check out on the world shapers dot com website the archives where you can go back and listen to the first i years worth of <hes> interviews because just past the year anniversary at the beginning of august and it's been a great year of talking to riders in there are many more green talks with writers to come. Come back more chance. That's this week <music> uh-huh..

twitter facebook Don willett lisa kessler edward willits edward ARD w candice jane dorsey Tim pratt google james alan gardner l. l. e. T. t. eighty percent
"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

The Worldshapers

02:06 min | 2 years ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on The Worldshapers

"We just talked about where you can find cameron online. You can find the world shapers online at the main website. <hes> the world shapers dot com. You can find it on twitter at <hes> at the world shapers you can find it on facebook out the world shapers. If you search for the world shapers podcast. You'll find it without any trouble. If you would like to know more about me your hopefully genial <unk> host. You can find me online at edward willett dot com e._d._w. A._r._d. w. I l. l. e. t. t. two ts dot com. You can find me on twitter at e willett e. w. I l. e. t. T. and you can find me on facebook at edward dot well. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the world tapers. I hope you will come back in the future for some more great interviews. Some of the people coming up soon include john kessel lisa kessler susan nj forest james alan gardner candice. Jane dorsey mary robinson cowl and just <hes> confirmed actually today as i'm recording this. It's a bit of the podcast <hes> garth nix. <hes> has said that he will be. I guess i'm very excited about that. One so lots of tremendous writers coming up we'll be talking to i'll be talking to and of course if you want to go back and listen to some of the previous ones you can find them all listed on the website up to the world dot com. If you click on archive <hes> in the main menu that will take you to a list of everybody that i have talked to so far and again. That's it this time around. It's been great fun talking to cameron hurley. I hope you've enjoyed listening and i hope that you'll come back many more times to listen to migrate interviews with the science fiction and fantasy authors who created aided the fabulous world. We've enjoyed adventures and over the years and wonderful characters who have shared those adventures with that's it for this star <music>..

edward willett dot cameron hurley facebook edward dot garth nix john kessel james alan gardner Jane dorsey mary robinson l. e. t. T.
"jane dorsey" Discussed on Slate Money

Slate Money

02:55 min | 2 years ago

"jane dorsey" Discussed on Slate Money

"But you know, the the short version is basically we have created this in sanely hard-working meritocratic elite, and we have trained people now from like the age of eleven the you need to be heads down working super hard in order to win win win win win all the time in the way that just was not the case in the eighties. There wasn't this. Kind of idea that you needed to beat everyone to get into gale school to blah, blah, blah. It was more still old school in those days. You know, when George W Bush could get into yell on you know, with the gentlemen, see. Yeah. You can't do that anymore. Well, unless unless if you if you do that now, then you risk going to jail, anyway, we're gonna get done Markovits on because I this is one of my favorite speeches. I keep on reading it so good. But yeah, I think Jack Dorsey does in some ways epitomize that kind of like you can be happy. Will you can be successful? Like, you couldn't be both underneath that is just a lie. Like if it was Jane Dorsey like, I don't think Jane Dorsey be running two separate companies and fasting and slowly disintegrating before our eyes and people would be idolizing her. There's something else going on also an I'm not sure what it is. I have no articulate explanation. But I think it's it's more complicated. I think you're right. I think some kind of like false it's just as shadow I think that he is putting on, you know, it's just like the only other the only woman. Can think of who even comes close really was Margaret Thatcher. Who was very like she I only need to sleep four hours a night. And I work hard on anyone else woman in the eighties. Or now, you have to work really, really hard. I think to be successful in a way that someone like Jack Dorsey really doesn't like he needs to chill and eat a hamburger, or maybe give one of his EEO jobs, please just let us edit are tweets. Sleigh money is sponsored this week by ZipRecruiter who have been with us for a very long time. We like you guys ZipRecruiter. You're great, and you make it very easy to recruit people. So ZipRecruiter is this website, which allows you to recruit people very easy by going to one place instead of going to bunch of different jobs boards and trying to hire them yourself. Just go to ZipRecruiter dot com, and they will find you the person you need, you don't even need to know that they post a hundreds of different troubles. He doesn't need to know that they go to with Rin Facebook. You don't need new how they do it. They just do it. They have hundreds of thousands of people they can sift through they can filter. They do all of that work for you. And they will just basically drop in your lap..

Jack Dorsey Jane Dorsey ZipRecruiter Margaret Thatcher gale school George W Bush Rin Facebook Markovits EEO four hours