18 Episode results for "Jane Byrne"

Playwright J. Nichole Brooks Puts Chicago History On Stage

Reset with Jenn White

17:14 min | 4 months ago

Playwright J. Nichole Brooks Puts Chicago History On Stage

"Hi I'm Justin Kauffman and this is reset. One of the most highly anticipated plays. This spring was Veron or gene burns at the looking glass theater. The work centered around the time in Nineteen eighty-one, when then Mayor Jane Byrne moved into Cabrini-green. How does one individual stop gun violence? How do you motivate an entire city? To Stop Gun violence. That's what mayor firms after. That was playwright Jane Colebrook speaking about the play before it opened on March ninth, but by March sixteenth the coronavirus pandemic had shut it down. But whether Harare Jane Byrne Returns to the stage or not. There's plenty more to come from Brooks. Last just made her a playwright resonance for the next three years, and Brooks has promised other plays on Chicago mayors including Harold Washington and Rahm Emanuel. Actor director and writer. Jane Colebrook joins US now welcome to reset. thanks so much for having me. You Know I. Take us through the idea of all the work that goes into putting a play up and then unfortunately having a pandemic shut it down within a week of its opening. Well I let me leave with love and say that though it was a heartache. Greatest joys of my life putting together a play. requires a lot of Patients and forty two. There's a lot of research. I like to do. I'm pretty diligent. I like to get as many of the fact that I can then I throw it all away and I, tried to create something with a dramatic spine, so there was a huge effort to put this play on by so many people and you know. It was the heartache that it had to get shut so early. Why do the play? What? What was it about? The story of Jane, Byrne particular the story of her moving into cabrini-green, the graduate tension. I think I've always been fascinated by Chicago politics I grew up in one of those households where my mom and brother read like three additions of the newspaper The news with always on, you know way before the twenty four hour news cycle, so there was always that buzz in my house. I was very very little, but I do. Remember when Jane. Byrne moved into Cabrini-green Housing Project and I didn't understand much of the politics. I just knew that she was a white lady and she was moving into the projects. And you know not very many people that back then, so I always held onto that memory and I do that often a writer I store things, and then I go back to recollect them, and so Jane was one of those stories. She spoke very clearly me throughout the years, and I finally sat down and decided to pen story. It's a it's a great way to look at Jane Byrne as opposed to putting on a biography play where it's all about her life, because that was such a not just about that mayor at the time, but it was about what Chicago was going through. Some of the same issues that are we're going through today and twenty twenty two mass gun, violence, segregation inequalities, but but that almost that microcosm explained so much about what Chicago was in nineteen, eighty, one and what it is today. Absolutely and what it was and sixty, eight and nineteen nineteen. You know we've come a long way, but not really you know so. These stories are all woven. They're all connected. I didn't want to create a biographical account of gene. Burns lies Let me tell you Jane Burn had a very colorful. And like acclimating life, and you have taken many elements that happened to her. You could have created a story, but this was the one that spoke to me, and I wanted it to be as organic and connected as possible I grew up on the south side. I'm born on the west side, so I understood segregation really well. If I didn't WANNA create a white savior story, I wanted to create a story that would actively put. Some my call to protagonist. Right into it. You know this is not her. Being elected to office, this is. After she's been in office for some time, and you know no one's waving flags. The celebration is over. The gunshots are still happening. There's still people at odds so I feel like nineteen eighty. One is pretty much like south twenty. I Read Ben Austin's book on Cabrini-green not too long ago, and it was interesting because of the experience of of of Jane Byrne. She lived in the I forgot where she lived, she lived in the Gold Coast or in the street or area, and and the idea that she was just just a stretch. I mean almost a walking distance away from cabrini-green, but the way that the city has always been in the way that you know. It was of course in Nineteen eighty-one Crossover one area and. The city's entirely different. Our city has always been divided by viaducts and train tracks, and you know markers James Burn lived on chestnut just off of Michigan Avenue that that's less than a mile from the location of the cabrini-green housing projects. So you know now you go over in that area. There's a target. there. Aren't very many remnants of what it used to be but Chicago Though is a bit more integrated now they're still those same train tracks and viaducts and things that changed from block to block where you can go from incident neighborhoods to the most posh. You know neighborhoods that have everything from Polka to doggy daycare and other people have food deserts so I just WanNa. Give a shout out of love then, Austin. I think it's important that writers of all types. Try to let us know what Chicago was throughout the years because erasure is a dangerous thing, it is interesting to me why it's like I'd love to know why it's important to tell those stories to tell the story of Jane Byrne Cabrini-green from Nineteen Eighty one to an audience in two thousand twenty. They're the generation that only know AIRBNB and You know. I want people to know that Chicago has. Always been home to so many different types of folks. We don't often get to see it. Especially people that live in underserved communities or a hood, the ghetto, the however you want to paint it, and then there are the stories of the folks that lives in the most posh areas. We have to blend those. Those narratives we. We have to get the truth out there. Otherwise I fear that we will have a city that lacks soul and truth, and it's the only way that we're gonNA. Get through this mess that we're in. You know I've always been one to gaze at old architecture. I like golf. I think there go all out the city so for me that provides so many stories and Jane Byrne was One. One of them she was fascinating. I didn't necessarily agree with her politics. You know, but for me. I wanted to create this play to show my interpretation of this moment of time, and you also met so many other characters that were residents of H.. They're they're. Activists are just so many people. Just story cannot belong to one alone, and so. That's why I wrote the the Jane Burn Play. Is there any way? I know how hard it is to put a play up and how much money goes into it and resources, and and of course you know just like you, said the sweat equity that goes into putting. Is there any way because this was cut short? That that you are looking lesser others may remount this at some point to give audiences when maybe we have a vaccine or something a chance to see your work. Sure I, certainly hope so. Don't you know the team at looking glass? We work hard every day to try to figure out how nurture the community where we are now, and we hope to remount plays some day right now. Live theaters. You know it folks. Will it really won't be quite. The same were in this thing across the nation and the world where we're trying to figure out how to bring live theater. Theater back because it is essential, theater can be healing. theater can be informative, so we're hoping to bring this play back in one way or another, but I have to say if it doesn't come back. I'm so glad that she got to live for a few short days and that young kids even got. We have some school. Groups come through the see, and that made me happier than any critic or any sort of. Anybody else coming through I wanNA make a work sodas, these shorties no! Let. The past was so that they can know how to move forward I. You know we always turn to. Our stages are playwrights. An some cases are are writers, but we turn to the theater to have these difficul conversations through the work. And you see great work, and including her honor Gene Burns and others taking on issues, difficult issues of race and Justice and equality when we don't have the experience to go and share in that conversation in a room together because of the pandemic. Where are these conversations happening where it's? Should they be happening? And what did we lose by not having? Playwrights be able to express themselves in this way. I think that the artist is one of the greatest and most dangerous people ever because we can get into all the places all right, and you get into those places, and you hear the stories, and you weave, and you pass them along if we lose that. From live. Theater we'RE GONNA be trapped behind these computers now. Lesson online media can be a wonderful thing, but there is nothing like coming together in space. In watching magic happen. In it's woven by human, so I hope that we don't lose that connection. I hope that as we as a society figure out how to move through this covert world that we can do so remember that live theater and human performance. It dot something for you. It's magic is essential and You. Know I hope we don't move that. You might be willing to listen to me in the play. You may not be willing to listen to me if we're trying to sit down for coffee. Talking about why racism is bad so I. Just put all my words in the play I'm an anti fascist. Out there, you're not gonNA. GET ABOUT THEIR JANA goal brooks playwright, also actress actresses writer director here in Chicago. You were named playwright in residence for looking last theater, which is for three years. How how do you like that? How do you like being a playwright in residence because you have have been in a different theater companies in different roles? Do you like the idea of having a residency at one theater? Working Glass. Theater is my husband fame it is where I've grown up and It's because of looking West theater that I I have a career as a writer, and as a director and of course I've gone on to do other things and we'll continue to, but it means the world's me having this Mellon, foundation a resident playwright. It just means everything to me. It gives me a chance to not. Only just tell the stories that I wanNA share I don't have to cobble together seventy four jobs just to pay rent. You know that's really what a lot of creators face. Food and security you you're. You're working project to project you're you're taking a little bit of money and just stretching it for three years, and it's not really a sustainable way to live, so I'm grateful to have. Have this opportunity I. Hope to create more opportunities like this. Because really this should be the norm. So for the next years I get to create more Chicago story with looking Glass Theater my home team, and and that means I also worked with other artists that aren't necessarily from looking less because I have this wonderful grant so I'm very grateful, excited and hope, I don't screw it up. With the. And when we talk about telling the stories of Chicago history, there's promises of telling more stories through the I guess the characters of Chicago mayors of the past you talked to a teased out in the press release about a play about hair, Washington. City Council and also play about Rahm Emanuel, so tell us what draws you to telling stories through these figures. I when I sat down to write the Jane I'm play, and and I just mentioned to people. Hey I'm writing a play about Jane Byrne. They will say well you know. Herald, and if you mentioned, Herald, they go. Oh, well, you know they daily and daily. People are fascinated with Chicago mayors and I am one of those people. So this is an entire Canon or a trilogy or you know I? It's just a bunch of stories. That I'm hoping to put together about. A specific moment and these mayors life I'm not setting out to make biographical play again. These are all people that have rich and interesting and fascinating lives, but you can't get all that information and the to our play, so I'm trying to so the next play. I'm working on terror Washington in the city council, wars. Yes, we know. The Herald was the first black man spe- elected of the city, and there all these wonderful things about him, but for me the city council wars and you got ever Doley all these other people that. Dramatically interesting to me, so that's where we're going next and I'm going to get around manual. It's amazing to think too. Because your your brain goes right to the imagery of of Dick Mills standing up on top of a desk or you know the screaming and the yelling and the and the scenes that you see if you go to youtube to look at the council wars and any of the footage it's up there. You'll see the doorways of people trying to squeeze through and all of this chaos around whether it's City Council and Council wars of the death of hair, Washington who was in office I mean there's so much richest when it comes to just the the visuals that come to. Nothing like Chicago political theater some to stuff. I really can't write that. You just have to record what happened. Because some of it is so unbelievable and we don't really see a city council. Today like we did in nineteen eighty one. They were passionate. and. I love it because today you may see mayor, lightfoot and Alderman fighting or swearing at each other zoom, or you may catch a hot mic where the mayor says something about somebody who's there and people may. Be. Aghast at at what happened or or talk about it in the moment, but for me it reflects back to a long political tradition and history of of mayors, being almost not ready for television when it comes to how they interact with the press and chicagoans. Well said I remember when I was younger I would look at parliament over in the UK, and how they would just yell at each other and I'm. How could they do that and I'm like Oh wait. That's what they're doing this cargo. They're going at it so I like watching people go at it. My last question for you just as we've seen some of the partner theaters in Chicago, the Victory Gardens comes to mind and others who who have had reckonings in this moment about institutionalized racism, or maybe not promoting diversity for to be a performer and artist collar working in Chicago. What does the theater community need to do to be better? Oh. Confronting Systemic Racism Patriarchy. You know we're often forced to move and spaces where we're told that Hetero normative is the. There's a lot to break down and I think What can we do is Well we have to identify. What these things are. And after you identify it, you have to work tirelessly to tear down all of these systems of oppression. Only way we can move forward. We look forward to those themes being in the new works that surely will come out and looking last theater with their new playwright in residence Jane Goal Brooks. Who has been a playwright and actor director and writer in town? Her honor Jane. Byrne got to run for about a week before. Kovic shut down and we're looking forward to more work. Ms Brooks thanks so much for joining us today and reset appreciated. Kelsey next time. And that's reset. Make sure your subscribe to the podcast plenty more conversations to come with the people that make Chicago Great I'm Justin Kauffman thanks for listening to reset from Chicago's NPR station WBZ.

Mayor Jane Byrne Chicago writer Jane Goal Brooks Jane Colebrook director Jane Burn Rahm Emanuel Justin Kauffman City Council Harare City Council and Council Nineteen Eighty Washington Gene Burns Harold Washington AIRBNB Ben Austin WanNa Glass Theater
E85: Lesa Ukman

Unofficial Partner Podcast

55:27 min | 4 months ago

E85: Lesa Ukman

"Hi Welcome to unofficial par I'm Richard Gillis. This is the second in our series. Who's there where we talk about audiences in how to measure them? The first episode was with Matlock and was one of most popular in recent weeks I suggest that this one will be no different. Today's guest is Lisa C'mon you founded I G, nine, hundred, eighty two, and he's one of the most influential people in the world. World when it comes to attempting to measure the impact of sponsorship, if you working sport and entertainment inside strategy, you owe a debt of gratitude to Lisa. She did the half miles doing more than anyone. Pioneer champion the roller sponsorship as marketing form, so we get into it or the problem of trying to measure purpose, the rise of black washing around black lives matter to add to sports washing gay washing greenwashing. The experience of Working Group M Upman Sold AG TO WPP's group Pam in two thousand sixteen, the sexism she encountered in La Point the upside of which was get us the popular. We English term wanker on a regular basis, and the broken incentives of meteoroid sues the mafia-like politics of Chicago, loads and loads more. You won't want to miss this. Lisa I have a bit of fan for a while now and since I remember. Back in the early two thousands and People were saying upon you need to get to. Chicago needs to get the I. E. G. Conference. There's this sort of buzz around this whole and I. Just wanted to go back before we start. We're going to talk about sponsorship and Sports. Marketing, and all of those things that you'd expect, but I just want to sort of go back a bit and How did you start because it's a it always interested in? Careers in in this area because it's not obvious, sometimes, it's a side route into from somewhere else, and it's not. It's not somewhere that often. People sort of tell the career teacher the I wanna be a being sponsorship and measurement and. Rest of it so just! How did you? How did you get going? What was the link? Okay, so I was a philosophy political science major in college, which did have a lot of translation to a job necessarily but I, also throughout college worked at a newspaper in the town where I went to school. So I also had a journalism background, so I graduated college and Came back to Chicago to live and got a job as journalists is a reporter. On a local paper, not just JEN renews Cover. More, features You know. Yes more features and It was okay, but it wasn't like. My Life's goal I was thinking is there's gotTa be more to this? A lot of the features were like whoa women's interest features and things like that and it just that was not really trick so I was looking around and this. Woman was running for Mayor of Chicago in something. I always was very interested in obviously with my background, political science was politics. And she was a reformer candidate, which in Chicago in those days was shockingly rare. You know we'd have mayor Daley forever just just just just for us over here. What does that mean? What is a reform candidate meaner make? Reformed candidate means there was a very strong and still is political machine embedded in Chicago through patronage jobs, so basically it's. Almost like a system a mafia in the sense that you have a godfather or a person above you. Who if you run into trouble? You have too many parking tickets, or you need a tax. Break on your real estate taxes, or whatever you go to your committee. Men than you would go to your Alderman, and then you're alterman would for the right amount of money take it up with the people on the committee that oversees whatever your problem is in the fixed would be in an. That's how Chicago politics. You know functioned. And was able to always turn out for presidential candidates for example. More votes than there were people voting age living in Chicago. Okay, that would the machine. She was running as a reform candidate meaning. She was going to clean up the machine. So I For her campaign and I went there for the volunteer interview because I wanted to work in her press area. Since I had this experience, and they just put me to work, and I never went back to my job. Basically, the newspaper and I stayed with her throughout the campaign and she won the election. Her name was Jane burned. I ever mayors of a major city and it was huge news worldwide. And I really had. A front row seat because I was writing her speeches and I was sitting in on every interview with the press. Basically, there were two of us in the press office. I was definitely the lower down junior person. But. It was an incredible opportunity when she won. She took five of us that were volunteers during the campaign with her to City Hall. So I was working writing her speeches in the press office when I realized that pretty much everything she had said during the campaign. Was Not true in that have she felt? She was as much a part of the machine. As you know someone from mayor, Daley's family would have been. A on was very quickly and bad bed with cabal of evildoers that she had called out during the campaign. So I went to resign in one of the five people from the campaign said don't resign. Go takeover this office of special events. There's a three million dollar hotel motel tax budget there and you can do some of the things that she promised. So I did that and quickly decided you know we have female Mayor Welp? We're getting rid of the beauty contests on Venetian night. Okay, that was like one of my first big moves. And turns out that There's the Colonel Riley from the daily administration that still actually calling the shots on a lot of thanks. Even though that was news to everybody in, he wouldn't let me cancel the beauty. The beauty pageants so fine. But my first big initiative that everyone was oblivious to because they had no idea who this organization was. Was the mayor's Office of Special Event partnered with Vietnam Veterans Against the war in had the first in the United States welcome home picnic for Vietnam veterans and the fact that we did this with the Vietnam veterans against the war was Major. Okay, head mayor, burn him any idea who they were arrived had any idea who this organization a never would have allowed it, but it was in a radical experience and I got. All these bands to donate their time and to make too short I became like the festival. IMPRESARIO for the city of Chicago started. The Chicago Jazz Festival the Jazz Festival in the world. Winner Carnival where we bought a thousand pairs of country skis in wanted to teach. Everyone had oppressed country skate. You I can I can start to see I can see link now I can see the line starting and I can. It starts to make sense. And probably the thing I liked most were the neighborhood festivals because that's the people who elected Jane Byrne were all these grassroots neighborhood organizations in that she kind of turned back on them. So this was a direct line for them to at least get into mayor's office, so we started thirty of these. And I realized because I quickly went through this three million dollar budget. That all I had to do was call up a corporation in Chicago in say, I'm with the mayor's office and they would want to sponsor these festivals in events. So I'm like Oh my God. This is the greatest form of marketing in the world. It doesn't interrupt people. It's not making the networks richer. It's just bringing a higher quality of life to people in urban environment, and the brands are breaking through. We don't hate them. We actually liked them because they're doing something different and unique so. I- I resigned because I was tired of. You. Know promoting her and everything like that. And I reached out to the publisher of Advertising Age which is. In the US kind of like marketing. Because I. Mean isn't. Exactly so I, want to start a newsletter. What I was calling sponsorship, Okay and I. Even though I had a writing background, I didn't know anything about publishing newsletters and so I thought, let's make age. They'll be my partner. They have all the reaching all the marketing people. I mean. I knew nothing about any of this. So. They were very interested in the newsletter business, not necessarily in sponsorship business, so they said okay. They put up the money in the first year. I worked at CRAIN's. Which is the publisher? But it was clear very very early on that like my vision, and there's nothing ally and I was quitting every other week and I had this whole place up in arms because I had a direct. Link to the board in ownership in this newsletter. They never done anything like this before I was just in the right place at the right time. So. After the year came to an end, I tried to buy back from them. And? They were so fed up with me in. No one could manage me. They said okay. You can buy it back, but I had paid them back like not only every penny they put into it, but like for five years you know some huge percent revenue, cetera. That was fine. I was just so happy to have this newsletter. Subscribers now to get going, so that's when I left. Program started I E J. So. This is early eighties. This is the early eighties Yup and It was I. Actually ran into the ranch sprain. Who took sort of leap of faith on on me about ten years ago. Laughed about that whole situation again. I'm just newly minted pretty much from school. It I have very sort of specific idea of how business should be run in what's right and wrong and had no idea what was involved really with the big publishing companies, so they were thrilled to see me go. They got their money in their profits and I was so happy to have that newsletter because my thinking was. We have to create an industry that has legitimacy, and so the idea was a newsletter to cover it. The industry would be the first way to start legitimizing it. So are that you'd be so that's since sort of eighty two. You've been working for yourself essentially Sarah exactly yeah. Difficult. Difficult to manage. And that and that compliant on that with anyone to program. So. You know if I buy into what you're trying to do. I'm a team player for sure. But. You know this wasn't at the days of enlightened companies. Let's put it that way. I would change little difficult. But I've mellowed to a real lot, but I started so. I had. I had about fifty thousand dollars in unfulfilled subscription revenue to start my business with. That's how I started it in funded it. But. The obligation was to deliver every two weeks the newsletter. So what I did was I brought all my friends from. The age with me, so I started out with like fifteen employees. And, quickly realized that you know I'd have like payroll for a couple of weeks. Baby, so this was. This was a publishing business that you use that's. Really the goal from me was I wanted to consult to cities around the world about how to do events with corporate partners. I, I called it municipal marketing. but I was really convinced that this was in the days of you know. Will you guys have nationalized TV in the UK, but in the US you know there were four networks that was it and it was thirty seconds spots. You could reach seventy eighty percent of the population and you know it was measured media, and that was it and I hated measured media I. It adds a hated everything about it. It was just me. The wrong sort of formula was one-sided suspicious. Just let's just just for secondly, so you've got so when you talk about measured media, you're talking there about the sort of Nielsen, ratings, systems, ratings, and you get made goods if the ratings are there and. Yeah but again it was all about interrupting people while they were watching something with bogus claims to me, anyway and just making some networks richer that didn't seem right because you know they've got the airwaves which belong to the public, but now they control them in their fortune dishonest I just was like opposed to the whole idea, so I was so adamant that sponsorship was was such a beautiful thing because it was. Going back to the idea of Almost. Enlightened self interest where the city benefits the people in the city benefit that arts benefactor marathons benefit so that you're looking at it from a you're looking at it from a almost a sort of patronage. Move for them for being angle, but I always knew the brand had to get something. I mean I always had that focused bit? It had to have a higher return. Say Than A thirty second spot which one of our conferences. was described by Chris Widow. whose Founded something called Channel One anyway as All takeoffs in no landings. That's how he described measured media. Yes, it's measured. They can tell you what time it leaves, but not if it ever arrives sports. Going to or you know anything else and the yeah. So and. We its measurement, the I associate. With this. Come up with a with a way of of. Just answering that question that you've just yourself into the LATTE wed. is it land I guess? And how did you go about that? I'm interested because I. Think it's quite what you did. Then you still see. Today. There's a sort of there's there's a very influential way of thinking about. Sponsorship is also just the practicality of it. Just, talk us through how you arrived at it and what he actually is just pick it for a minute because it be good fund this for the listeners to stir to peer inside the blackbox. So. One of the things like I was angry about things a lot including the fact that it was so easy for a pro sports team to get quote sponsorship or say the IFC the Olympic Committee to get sponsorship in yet these amazing events that word sports were really just considered, you know. Fund raising. Opportunities not as marketing assets so I wanted to level the playing field to make it easier for a jazz festival or A 'cause that was really important to to be able to not necessarily get the same amount of money as a pro sports team, but to be able to present themselves in a way that would resonate and there you know at the end of the day. The difficulty in selling sponsorship and I still see that today is you're selling intellectual property. You're not selling measured media. You're selling intellectual property in. It's a hard concept. So what I wanted to do with putting measurement around was to say okay. What is it is intellectual property? So if you by the International Olympic Committee package the top package you get the right to the five rings, the right to marketing promote the fact that you've your partner and use these five rings globally. There's no televised scientist. There's no idea on athletes. There's no athlete endorsements. You know there's no tangible ago with it. So. Let's say the IFC we were working with them. At the time is the ultimate. Valuation Client for sponsorship. Because their zero tangible there, how would we go about then coming up with eighty million or a hundred million global justification, so we worked backwards, and that's how I came up with all the intangibles. and. Things like what's the value to the company of being able to Co brand with an entity? That's a love brand like the I O C, would the company itself may be any you know the opposite of a love brand, so it was working backwards to come up with those metrics, so give me an example then of a of an in a bit of intangible sort of asset. The then work get back. So what does that? What does that mean? So. The American Library Association it's a Membership Association of Librarians that. Have you know mostly public libraries wrong the United States. They one of my. Very first clients that in. My heart is with bucks, so I loved this client, okay? So. They did a conference every year for their twenty six thousand members, and said you know we. We want to keep the fees love for our members, so we to think about bringing sponsors. Can you help us think about value? So I looked at the American Library, association, not the conference, because like careers about these twenty six thousand librarians, but I looked at oh. My God, there's more library cardholders than visa cardholders. There's more libraries than there are McDonalds. If we just look at this as a channel for touch, points, distribution mailing sampling. There is big as it gets. You know so. The first deal that not deal that sold because I never would sell sponsorship, but I put together their offer letter for them, and they sent it to Microsoft. We created something called the fun for America's libraries it it didn't exist. It was a new five. Oh One C. Three nonprofit and Microsoft was their first officer for ten million dollars. Now had we valued what came to us with which was their conference? You know it would have been a struggled to get Microsoft. Twenty six thousand dollars in say for example. But here they came from from twenty, six, thousand, the gap between twenty, six, thousand, tangible and ten million. In the intangible. Right. And, it was all based not on. It was all hidden assets you know. They didn't have In their mind, these touch points. They didn't see those assets, but they were there. They were sitting on them, so we brought them out for them in. There were so many projects I worked on exactly like that. One time a real estate developer that owned office buildings came. To us and they wanted to do like concierge services and get some corporate partners for that is a way to attract tenants. And I was like. Oh. My God. You're in an elevator. You are captive. Install videos in the elevators and sell advertising that forget about your stupid little concierge thing okay, and they did that in the that ended up getting sold and becoming a public company, and whenever now I'm in an elevator in to lad with the ads sort of annoyed at myself, but. Another example of the hidden assets in there were so many of these. Sports Sports. Teams always reverted back to impressions to this day. They still don't get it. Okay. The most the pro sports teams are out there selling title of their stadium because of the guaranteed impressions and. They don't understand the hidden assets of what they have. So I mean look at my bread and butter idea sports. Seventy percent of our clients were sports I love Them I, guess, but the challenge is in thinking about non traditional. Opportunities that really don't have the built in guaranteed visibility from media that the pro sports teams have if you. If you are on the pro sports teams, you'll commercial people on the on for an NFL team. Yeah, you are! There is a game being played, and you are a beneficiary here on your noise happening in terms of those Nielsen numbers that. Chart an chart eyeballs, and then you are. Putting evaluation just on a media valuation on the sponsorship and actually. NAH position. Most people would say yeah. Let's do that because it's easier. It's much easier and look. There's a whole bunch of media buyers whose job it is to go. Buy Those impressions you know it's way bigger than sponsorship buyers so in it's much easier sell than intellectual property were. There is no, there's no made goods or anything. But that still doesn't mean to me. That is just selling media. You're not really selling sponsorship. And that's why so many of the team's never gave say category exclusivity, because that's one of the sort of defining features of the sponsorship is. We are married here and I will not have four other banks, the official sponsor of of my team. You're my exclusive bank partner. I, want my fans to go. Do business with you, but when you get so much more of your revenue from media than you do from sponsorship. There's no way that you're going to convert to that. But potentially there was a real huge opportunity. I think for sports to go that route, but they did it. That's okay. And terms of the I mean the basic problem and it's the marketing challenge more is not just a sponsorship challenge, but it's the the issue of attribution and what you said at the be that nice phrase of of takeoff and landing. Dry. In terms of how you build an evidence base that something is happening. On the brand side whatever is. When you when you go to. Talk to sponsors. It's trying to establish will. So what we've done this and there is an there is an assumption of Something good has happened, but it's very hard to make an evidence base case. Is that still the compensation? I? Think it's less because. I do think that over time. You know the idea that emotion drives behavior is pretty well accepted. You know this Guy Got Nobel Prize economics for showing that that that's the case you know not sponsorship, but in financial decisions I do think that you know. Most marketers understand that you need a story for your social media, and you need a motion to change behavior and sports arts. Entertainment causes those are the things people care about so that's less difficult nowadays, but like why I love your name from the moment I saw unofficial. Partners I made. That was like Oh my God. That's so perfect because I think twenty years ago. Official sponsor just started to mean you know. I paid money for this and there's not necessarily. Any riskier from my brand anymore, because everybody's doing it I'm just a lemming now in I think consumer, stop giving companies credit. So the issue becomes you know now. What do you do to truly stand out to not be accused of greenwashing or black washing? It's black lives matters. What do you do that really is adding something to an ecosystem so that you can get credit from your customer and your prospect, so the they love you more and change their behavior. That's that's the challenge in. That's where I sort of moved into with nonprofits not cause marketing, but. What I call pro social. So tell us about what. We're now into. What? We've what we've missed out actually what we should. The big irony that we missed that so when I sold out in two thousand sixteen in. Why did we sell because? Basically. You know we were getting caused in working with major brands global brands. An opening up offices to serve them around the world that was endeavor might interest at all. and. Frankly, the business side was never might interest. It was to me a movement, and I wanted to make a community in I wanted. You know sponsorship to get the same recognition as other types of marketing, so that that was my mission and my passion, but it was really clear that that in terms of management Me being the biggest sort of problem here We couldn't keep rolling in servicing people the way we were, so we tried first to bring in outside managers, but going back to mind very compliant days that was that wasn't working too well, so we did sell in. Here's the irony. Who did we end up selling to group them? The world's largest media buying cuff account in the world. And that was not who I wanted to sell to I'll say right there. I even my brother and sister shares as they came into the business, so they outvoted me there, but it doesn't matter it's. but that was the irony, and so we got salt to group Bam. And what? What was that like initially? Horrible so. Just, because he saw things you. They they were what you didn't stand for essentially. During that at the time we saw we were working on A. Project A ROI PROJECT FOR A. To us a major client you know. Maybe they were paying US editor, two hundred thousand dollars to look at several of their sponsorships and analyze their return on investment and They were media properties. And we were showing them that they were paying these huge premiums on the media side and the sponsorship side, and they were getting no credit from their customers or the fans of these sports events. They were doing the only thing that was working for them. Was this theme Park Partnership that they had? That had no media piece to it that. Okay, we had all the primary research it was. It was a brilliant project. It was a big pine to us. So I get a call from you know somebody at Bam and Oh. The same plan is like A. Forty million dollar client of theirs and Vinnie were ones that recommended the media pieces, and they were like you know these this is not acceptable. You know just up. and. You like being told to shut up. Anyway it was not a great fit our home model. Their model was really turnkey. Hire these young people. These media buyers train them market up. Get our money. The at our whole model is it's so labor intensive. We charge. A feed has nothing to do with ours. It's got everything to do with value. We get money. They just nothing about this was a good fit. Not Familiar story so say one that you hear a lot about. The working sponsorship in sports. Marketing, within. The network. It's the incentives out a whack on. That's the hard work. He's trying to align incentives within that, yeah yeah. That is deafening. They're just such different animals and you know all the below the line service, agencies. And all the media agencies really were looking at the time for new sources of revenue to make up for the fact that the media marketing world was changing so dramatically. So I think that's why they bought us, but it was you know from the beginning such as strange ad fit in the other ad thing was I was always enamored with British marketing. Okay from the beginning. I think because. You know. The network started out as being not advertising base, but you know government subsidized. The media coverage of things like sinus in sponsorship in Britain was just such a higher level than the United States. Where it, you know, nobody understood. About sponsorship, and how it is different from advertising, but in Britain, you guys always did. And of course I love British. You know plays books every, so I was so excited to be part about British entity, but then I quickly found out that like things that I took for granted all these years like bit. You could be a woman. Do whatever you wanted. There was so much sexism We all spoke English, but we spoke different languages, so that was a bad thing to look more and more in London. Yes I couldn't believe it. I finally got to use the word wanker I'd always read that word inflated British, novelist. Whenever got to use it was like. Ten competition among the agencies interbank. They set you up. So you know here I. Thought we were off Family Ha-. Run that. You are under the umbrella with two circles. What point I actually had met two circles I was in Poland conference and I heard them speak and I came back and said we need to buy them and so That was like towards the end of my tenure. We did and up buying them but now. We're separate again, but I was really impressed with what they were doing community. 'cause they would presumably have the same challenges within group. Allah Bruin now. I don't know if they're the same challenges because they were kind of from that ilk of you know. Go Boys, I think a little bit I mean lovely people, but they knew how to you know. Get along with everyone I, think. So? And listless, so in terms of the sold in I had to stay for five years that was part of the deal and then I just basically did pro bono stuff from my house. I never wanted again. On manageable you Alisa Yeah I guess. Same Time I was in. Qatar in I'd always been a big fan of homeless World Cup even though it was not a well known in the US. And I met the founder, and he was telling me his story about how. He couldn't get any sponsorship or had a very hard time with raising philanthropic dollars and yet. The results were really amazing. I mean people in their participating in their program at vary by country, but you know some countries. It was high as like eighty percent of the participants were off the street two years later still. He had research with all this in. Raise any money so as like. Why are you going to every fee for partner? In having this be some idea for their pro social activation of people World Cup now. This is at a time when you know. Nobody should have been a big fan of fi phones. Okay and I thought they need you so much. Then I found out that you know Viva did not see it that way. In fact, they told him if he went to their sponsors. They would take away his right to use the words World Cup. Well that that set me off on a new pet or sure. Because I was just not happy when I heard that because first of all would have been perfect for so many of the visa sponsors to do. With them and second of all, they should have embraced Thomas World Cup because they were so socially irresponsible. Do you think so? It's interesting? Not so you've. been along time champion of sort of brand purpose OC- repurpose wherever you know the words change, and you know going out fashion or whatever, but you you. Brought from the beginning, but it has been that threat in your career in your work, and now everyone is talking about it. Yeah, and I have a problem when everyone starts to hear about it because it feels like. This is just a marketing thing. The else you'll, you'll take on that. Yeah, no I think in the US. We've been witnessing blackwash lately. You know all these companies that don't necessarily do business with black on companies don't necessarily. Make it a great environment for black people to work in our like we support you black lives matter and that is just. You know. Shabby wet, and then you look at a company like Ben and Jerry's, which truly for the last five years or more have made been making substantial contributions to the conversations around race They kind of get. Tomato diced in with all these other people talking about all these other brands, so yes, it even the whole beat core mentality. That's taking over. It's almost like now. You can go through the checklist and be considered socially responsible I hate. I once gave target as. Why I hate corporate social responsibility, because to me, it was not about responsibility was got opportunity, and if you look at this as responsibility, you're never gonNA. Get it okay. If. You don't get that. Having diversity is a business advantage than you're so stupid. You shouldn't even be in business. So. But now you've got this whole movement of corporate social responsibility in purpose and. It's more like I've done my checklist so now I'm good the end when it's not anything in their DNA, so of course they're gonNA end up screwing up anyway. Is Hard to do, it's so. The here here I am all against myself, but I hear you on that, but in terms of without a checklist, sort of approach, actually quite difficult to establish what it is, the won't companies to do. Because they all just corporate being and they will, they will be all bureaucracies. And getting them to move I. Guess You have to play that game to an extent. I mean I. Don't like a checklist as much of the next person but I think I don't know how you then make those changes real without some form of sort of bureaucratic apparatus. you know in the UK you guys had someone named Anita Roddick that started the body shop's. More migrate regrets. Is I never got her to I? E G before she passed, but. To me, someone like Anita Roddick Anne Bonds Gerard from Pentagon. Yeah, and Bancone from Ben and Jerry's for example. Those were creators of brands. It wasn't a social enterprise I mean. They were clearly in creating products that people wanted in. It was a business. But embedded in the DNA is. A bigger. Movement our purpose. It really attracts a community of buyers that are buying into that purpose. Yvonne Schnur always said when he was being boycotted for supporting. Pau Planned Parenthood. If. You're not for planned parenthood. I don't want to sell my close. Really you don't deserve That was his attitude. But it's not about the checklist it's really about. It coming from the tap down in the bottom up and the customers in the entire community about something bigger than just the transaction. But if you are if you are. On that, but the when you and use the phrase DNA which I think is. Is. In the body shop and the examples that you've you've. Cited there it was absolutely in the story and the the. Genesis of the business it was built in an. Visit there's a coach of strategy question I. Guess Hanging around here in terms of whether or not, you can actually change the culture of organization when you where you might have a lot of well-meaning people working for a bank or insurance company, who, on a day to day basis or ripping people off, but they want to do good and that there is there are these two two things which sort of coalescing and so I guess. Unless, you are lucky enough to have that within the back story of the organization, and it's you know it seems like Ben and Jerry's on the body shop. It's I don't know what you do. If you are A, it's a a an organization that doesn't have that in his DNA but does want to change and does want to evolve because I I. It's it feels I. Just wonder. Though the the question is whether or not the strategy of of. Of Brand, purpose is of any use when you're battling again. This is a cultural issue with an organization. Yeah you know we. Have Gotten so many requests, so my new business percents valuation service. was. For Homeless World Cup to be able to go out and raise some money right now. Idea was raising money from funders That's why I created in in my mind. It was always GonNa be for the non profit. But so many businesses are calling asking us to value. You know they're. They're good works. Okay, their professional works. So I've. Tried to do five of these and truthfully. Have produced zero because it is a problem, so say you're a company. Soft drink company, and you do so much good truly even though it wasn't embedded from the beginning, you now have enlightened people that really understand the power of the brand, just like celebrity, using their brand new could use your brand okay to really make the world better and at the same time. Make your customers even closer to you. But then you have to look at wait a minute. Loop the the issue of obesity sugar look at the issue of they're taking water from communities around the world to make their product and. They shouldn't be allowed to have access to that free water necessarily of Hang, so you start looking at all the negative things and I do think it is. There's no such thing is like pure anything, but these these corporate procession evaluation so far. have been very problem at and. You're right. There's. There's a danger. The cut that those companies are ringing you up. They just want your badge on our badge. They WANNA imprint and you know it's. It's regulated industries industries that have yeah, so we don't want to do the again. The center of it is not in trouble. At the center of IT IS A. It's the same with us as human beings we are. We're capable of adopting two conflicting points of view in the set at the same time we were you know with with sort of contain motives wherever the the phrase might be and company all the same companies. At the same. At the same moment in the organ in a larger organization, you have these two things coalescing, we one is a desire to do good, and the other is the embedded in what they do is the bad stuff, absolutely and what you even credit them for doing so some of the people on my team believe that a company that has you know a certain percent of females on their board or people of? Of Color should get credit at again. Going back to an earlier point I'm said to them. No, that's just smart business. Okay truly if they don't have diversity on their board. They're not going to be in business in five years. Okay, maybe it'll be six years I. Don't know, but they're idiots. Okay, and they're not gonNA last. So, what do you credit them for doing? What are you even put under? Doing. Good that that itself is is really a value judgement and who gets to make that you know the sustainable development goals. Those are great goals. You can't argue with any of them, but they have taken so much funding away from so many things that don't necessarily fall in those goals because like lambing, every company wants to be part now have sustainable development goals. So, that's really hurt. Big Time. the arts. In who gave UN the right to decide that? These are the global goals in every companies foundation to get behind these. Fund these what what gave them the right to decide that? You know is not to. Do you think that the sort of those goals which? Are the framework by a lot of people they that's the most sort of one of the first page of of the social purpose. Yeah, you think that the actually that's a problem. I can't say it's a problem because you know you agree I agree with every single goal. They're fantastic, okay? But again. What's not included now is pretty much you. It's almost impossible to funding for those things. what? And the other thing is. The whole idea around, how do you measure? It's all based on commitments. Okay, so this company committed to this much money in having this percent diversity by this day okay or lowering their carbon footprint to this not those are great things, but there's no look at outcomes, or what is the company really like? And what are the costs you are at the at the same time you know. Are they taking advantage of financially illiterate customers in their banking, you know. There's none of that so now. You get the imprint of Oh. I've contributed. To goals, six, nine and ten. You know I've met in exceeded that Oh. Everybody looks at you as a great corporate citizen, but we minute. What about the fact that you're doing this dismiss? Nobody's looking at that. So that's what pro social and again I did not start it for corporations. But have been looking based on calls that you know. Can we create something? That could show me as a customer for example, if I want to choose between three big box retailers flair to shop. Okay, in one is truly doing. Amazing things and if you divide all their good by the revenue. overed over doing good in their category, but their competitor is much better at storytelling marketing, so their competitor gets all the credit is being. You know the most socially progressive responsible company, and not the one really doing the work that would be a reason why motivated to keep trying this. But you have to look at the whole. You can't just look at the good. You have to look at the cost. What are the costs of their business to society? When. It's like saying you know in a sports context. Lance Armstrong in. You get everything and. It's. It's very difficult because actually. Embedded in in. Public Relations and calms is a K.? We need to build a counter narrative and quite often. The counter narrative is exactly what you're your. The is it's? The, let's get some good stuff done. And it's really confusing people. Customers sports fans. Investors is very hard to to to work out where they stand and I think. That's part of the strategy. The strategy is confusion. Let's that's that's throw. Something out there which counters the bad story and we can then focus out brandon that and it's very difficult, and I'm trying to work out how you'll model would get bill nut. So we subtract the caught, so we turn everything into current safe. Because the only way again go back to how do you compare? If you want to fund a nonprofit, if your foundation in you know, you want to eradicate poverty. Had you compared thirty different organizations all seemingly doing great work? To lower the number of people living in poverty. had. You really compare them until now. It's all been based on outputs. Three thousand people were trained in this. We mentored four hundred people, and so I said No. This is just a flawed way of assessing a nonprofit. We have to look it outcomes, and then we have to subtract the costs of the grid in not just financial cost, but you know we just work with an organization Arch question Bethlehem Pennsylvania and they turned abandoned steel mills, the the largest, Brownfield in the United States into a year round, arts and Education Sennar. Amazing initiative okay, but typically gentrification comes with creating such a development right so after we added up all the good and converted them to dollar values. We then looked at gentrification and subtract that cost, or they've lowered crime in the area, but before we could give them credit for lowering crime. We had a look at the all. The surroundings zips to say. We'll wait a minute. ZIP codes declined. Just move. You know eight blocks over than they're not gonNA get the credit. So you do have to look at the whole as. holistically okay in again. It's a lot of work and it's not easy. Next. Noah Senate known for. Wanted something easy pay. So hard I, if I know and I never would started this I gotta stay. So. Right let's let's finish off with a with the inevitable cove question. What impact is going to have in your world. What's the I personally? You'll you'll through an and well about what's? What's going to happen? Do you think that this is a reset? That in the sponsorship. Mark, I, ask Sally Hancock. Who you know for, what would you ask? Lisa and she said she is an opportunity for a reset. In this whole shit mark is because a nice question. We had such a sally. I Love Salads such as Sally Brilliant Question. So I do think just looking at Different indicators like Sales, of certain items that have gone away and people's work habits that have changed and people seeing that things. They never thought they'd be doing. That they're now doing I do think it is an opportunity for a huge reset, and I think that first of all if You're selling sponsorship. If all you're doing is going back to the way it was done before. No one's GONNA. Pay attention to you because I. Don't think anyone's GonNa. Really pay attention to. Something that's just sponsored in less. You're adding something of value to ecosystem or a community. I just think no one has time anymore to pay attention. So the challenge is really going to be. Not. What do you sponsored? How do you sell it? But how do you make one plus one? Brand in the sponsor equal three of four meaning they build out a program not around assets that are existing, but around things they can create the add value and the sponsored property is just the platform. To. Tell the story of something else that you end that property are doing together that to me is the power of wear. It's GonNa. Go next And is going to require people. I think again to work harder to understand and use primary research. What people? What's the value? What's missing? Where is there an opportunity for these two brands to come together and do something new and That's really benefiting people I. Think that's what we are going to respond to and. If. You don't have something to add to this conversation going on people you wanna reach than you know. You're wasting your money by being there just being there as presence. So. We can. We can agree to keep the word sponsorship. Can we because there's sort of? Every now, and then every now and then you know. It's partnership that we had the Polish. There's just starting new were just can't handle any more worldly son. Just need I just need simplicity, and you know a lot of does come out the UK I. Think the little bit that whole. That whole discussion around the world that doesn't matter people. Get it what you call it. You know it's like nothing's going to change if you're just changing the word. Now. Well listen great to hear you again. And always in in great form and thanks and keep doing what you're doing. Be well.

United States Chicago partner UK Lisa Jane Byrne Nielsen IFC Daley Microsoft Ben Richard Gillis Matlock JEN alterman La Point City Hall
40 Years of Broadcasting The Weather

Weather Geeks

44:02 min | 2 years ago

40 Years of Broadcasting The Weather

"On the outside looking in living in the midwest during winter months can be brutal. You've got frigid temperatures that can take your breath away blizzards that will stack the snow over the roof of your house. But today's guests knows a thing to about mid west winters. Tip of the iceberg. Tom skilling has been the chief meteorologist WGN TV in Chicago since nineteen seventy eight. Now, if you're counting that's forty years in that span of time, it can feel like the media in television industry can change as much as the weather will talk about these changes and so much more with legendary broadcast meteorologist, Tom skilling I'm Dr Marshall shepherd from the university of Georgia, and this is the weather podcasts top. Thank you so much for joining us marshal. It is an absolute pleasure. And finally to meet you, you know, funneled your work for for years, but we've never had a chance to actually visit. So I'm flattered you'd ask and advised me on here and I'm looking forward to talking with isn't, isn't that amazing? I know we've shared a couple of emails and almost gas pass a few times when I was AMS president but have not actually had a chance to speak with each other. So it's it's my honor. It's an honor for me to be. Able to talk to you right back at you Marshall. It's it's a real honor here in by the way. I think what you do in educating the public on meteorology is just amazing. Your Forbes column, all of your outreach is is amazing. So thank you for including me in this podcast, it's going to be fun. Well, I think that first of all, thank you so much, but really it's, it's my honor your legend in meteorology, and it's someone we've wanted to have on the weather podcasts. And so I want wanna take a journey through your career. We're gonna start at the beginning and then town of midway through talk a little bit more about sort of your WGN years. And then I wanna get your thoughts on a variety of topics at the end. But I wanted to dive in to sort of just telling the listeners where you grew up in, what was it like growing up in those midwest winters? Well, tell you Marcia was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Don't remember it only live there two years. My folks are natives of the Pittsburgh area, and then my dad. Was transferred out commuted into New York everyday from New Jersey. So I lived thirteen years in a commuter suburb Westfield, New Jersey, and then my dad was transferred out to the mid west in nineteen sixty five. So the whole family moved out here and it's been a delight. I worked grownup and worked here all those years. I went up to the university of Wisconsin. That's where I studied from seventy seventy four and worked in Milwaukee, three years worked in Jacksonville, Florida for a year. But basically I've been here in the mid west and I've been here at WGN since nineteen seventy eight. And you know, Marshall, I needn't tell you. I tell our young interns in the young people with whom I work, who are always amazing if you had to parachute into a profession at a fascinating time in its history. The past fifty years in meteorology has been stunning. I, it's just. Amazing. You know, one of my dear friends and he was finishing his doctorate when I was up at the university of Wisconsin is Louie Seleny and. Yes, indeed. And another past president of the m s and of course they head of our weather service. But you know, I remember we would gather on the fourteenth floor of the space science and engineering building. We call ourselves the facts rats when I was going to school back in the early seventies and as an undergrad, I'd be there with the grad students and marveling at their command of the subject. And wondering if ever there would be a moment where I had anything close to their level of expertise as we discussed the impending storm in its development. I learned so much in those though sessions, but I say to Louis, when I see him now Louis, would you have imagined this profession would have come as far as it has in terms of remote-sensing modeling it. It's been an amazing revolution as series of revolutions that we've all been party to. Yeah, I wanted to actually ask you about that. Tom. I actually spent a little time. There at the university of Wisconsin. Oh, probably about a year and a half to go. I was invited up to give a talk, and I was, I think at the top of that building that you were talking about, it was really an amazing view, but you you were there. It was kansin during a time when things like satellites were still new weather presentation software was being developed. So I was curious what the energy like is young meteorologist at that time just to see some of these things really in their infancy that we sort of take for granted now. Oh, your show your show accurate on that, you know, that was an amazing. It was a kind of a scary time during the Vietnam war that there was a lot of instability on that campus and all related to the war. But I kind of kept by sanity by hanging out in the the weather, building there and with fellow meteorology students. And I'll tell you something we would sit in classes and watch Dr. Bernard Asumi was there. Of course, the FAA. Other of the geosynchronous orbit weather satellite Madison. The w campus is considered the birthplace of satellite meteorology, and indeed it is. It is one of my professors at Florida State University was Eric Smith who working closely with Verne Sumi. Yes, it's incredible. We sham and watched land falling hurricanes. Real time at this would seem amazing young people in our profession today, but we had never seen that before. And of course they develop a kite up there, which was, you know a system that naval you to lay atmospheric parameters on top of satellite imagery and understand the mechanisms that were driving the weather's development. We had not seen that before it was in stunning. And in very real sense all the databases we use today have at their core, you know, mckiness which is still in use at the national weather service. Sure, sure. It's, it's stunning. But you know, I met Dr sue me one time at a gathering Christmas gathering years later, and I said, you know, you really were visionary. How in the world did you understand is completely as you did, what having these space platforms would allow us to see how we could remotely sense the atmosphere. And of course he was very much in favor of all the countries of the world talking to their respective governments, getting them involved in the launching of satellites and heave envisioned a world in which we would see every weather system from birth to death, which of course has become a total reality and we're able to remotely sensed the poorly observed. Oceanic areas in initialized are incredible numerical models bottles that get better and better with each passing day and here. So it was. A lot of stuff going on up there at the time and just amazing. I can't imagine being there at that time. We're talking with Tom skilling WGN TV chief meteorologist who celebrated his fortieth anniversary with WGN TV homework. Tell you something. Homework, but I, you know, I have to give credit to my colleagues here the Weather Channel as well. They, they do nice job of doing research and allow me to come in and talk to great. I mean, let's just keep. Can I keep it real with the listeners for a second. Tom skilling is a legend in the field. Is I can't imagine that that's not the case if you're listening to this podcast. I mean, I grew up in the Atlanta, Georgia area, Tom and GM being one of the super stations we could get you in in Georgia. So I mean, I grew up watching you at times. I know one of my good friends Allen seals even worked with you for time. There's a cop. Yeah. What are you any good story Allen St., seal stories. He's current president or outgoing president of the. Oh, tell you something. It's been fun to watch that career takeoff in Allan carries the same passion toward this profession that you and I and so many of our colleagues have. There's a unique love and affection. I think, for science in for the way nature works among people in our line of work and Alan definitely possessed that, and his career has been a testament to just the what an amazing Graf of a grasp of the subject and passion for it. That Allen exudes. You know, something else I used to get together with John Coleman here who did the weather on the local station and is he was envisioning putting the Weather Channel together. We would get together after our respective ten o'clock shows here and go to a little restaurant in downtown Chicago. We remember one time Kerry Carey. The famous legendary baseball announcer walk by. Yes, he walked by one night as we were all sitting there and I'd be there with John and Pam Penniston his article, his artist, and I remember he was frustrated because he did the weather on good Morning America by the lack of time he had and I one day John, there's going to come day when there's a twenty four hour Weather Channel and we're gonna have all the time we need. And he kind of looked at the curiously in several weeks later during the subsequent dinner, he said, you know that whether channel you were talking about, I've been working on putting that together, he would do. He was approached by the today, show to go to work for them and do the weather and had a handshake agreement with his management here in Chicago that if an at work opportunity came along, they would let him go. But the several general managers had passed since this end shake agreement had been reached. And when he went into the today show's after me, they said, well, I, we don't recognize that agreement. You have to stay here on our local show. Oh, so he would do the evening news stay up all night. Get ready for good Morning America and then get on planes to New York or wherever where he would talk to Madison Avenue folks and proposed the idea of a Weather Channel. And he did a demo tape in Merv Griffin studio. The first one that laid out what a Weather Channel might look like because nobody at that time had any idea what a Weather Channel would be. So we went out there spent a whole weekend, produce a half hour Taeb. And I remember thinking, wow, how are we gonna pull this off in real time what it takes two days to make a half hour, Tim o. tape, but clearly it's happened. You know, the Weather Channel is a phenomenon and you know, I don't know what happened with John on the climate change issue. I, he and I would have some very Frank discussions about that today. I wanna talk to you later about some of that because as you will know, as I do former president of EMS and you being such a sort of Nikon in our field, they're sort of some divergence even in the broadcast community on the whole notion of weather presentation versus climate. I know. Yeah. Let's say that because I wanna I wanna I wanna that towards the end, but I'm going to circle back to that. I, I want to kind of get to something when you talking about Alan that I'm curious about with you because I know you actually started some on air work as early as age fourteen, but what made you want to pursue? Meteorology. And did you know even if that point that you always wanted to be on camera Marshall? I had no idea. I never shut out to be a media, whether type never from a little boy. I had paper routes, and I made four or five dollars a week and miam- vision was to put a bedroom radar set in and I even wrote Bendix corporation and you know, to get the price stats, it was so foolish to think that with my four dollar a week paper road, I might be able at some point to buy a radar, but I used to buy whether quit, I went through the Belfort instrument company, catalogs and sciences soci-. It's and I used to dream about the Instrum. I was going to buy. And as it turns out I only had enough money to buy a sling, say cropper and a, you know, a barometer in a mid match their monitor. I couldn't afford the the really cool stuff. And I remember my price possession was the wind scope. Anna monitor and win vein, which my dad talk to somebody and got it half price. It was one hundred dollars at the time. We got it for fifty dollars and I put that on my roof and at any rate when we moved from New Jersey out here to the midwest used to get the daily weather map out of the office of the superintendent of documents. It was a daily weather map publication, beautifully done done by the by the United States weather bureau at that time and subsequently renamed the weather service of, but I get it the next day because it was mailed from Washington, and you get a surface map of five hundred milligrams chart. And as young person, we didn't have the internet. There was no way to get an upper air chart, and I used to wonder when I watch. I looked at the weather pages in the New York Times, the Newark evening news how it was when they put that little insert map that showed you what the weather map tomorrow was going to be like how they knew that that front which had no waves on it was going to develop a wave on it. That would turn into a big storm. I used to think that was amazing and I figured, well, it must have something to do with the upper air. Any rate that I could kind of follow with the daily weather map through the upper heard map. But the problem was when I moved out here to Chicago, this came four days later. It was too late to, you know, look at a real time reflection of what was going on in the weather, and I was frustrated. So I wrote a radio station in Aurora western suburb of Chicago. I'm told it was an eight page letter, and I said, look, if you can get me some current weather maps, how do a forecast for you this from a fourteen year old? And they thought, well, it's kind of an intriguing cuts. The guests Russ. He Tim was a program director and I got the car. We drove in here to the. Then United States weather bureau office on the university of Chicago campus top to guide show folks who is head of the office here, and he agreed to send out maps. We'd provide self addressed stamped envelopes, and they had a big Bruening architects type reproduction machine. 'cause they hand plotted a lot of maps in those days within the office. And the Chicago office was doing the forecast for Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa's. If memory serves me completely that all came out of Chicago, and and so they would send these maps out and we would pay the reproduction costs and I got my weather maps, but I also got a foot in the door and media weather, and that's how I started on the media track. So Laos was kind of it was sparked by this interest and curiosity, and then an opportunity presented itself. And I guess the rest forty plus years later history. Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting. You know, you have been pretty much in Chicago most of your career. Do you think you could live in a city and forecast in another city or have even even presented it? So I know you said you were there at some other cities prior, but really people know you as Chicago. Yeah, you know, Marshall us spent a career following the weather in a given area and yet develop an expertise and only gained through year after year and decade after decade in an area, I feel so totally comfortable. I grew up in New Jersey. I did hurricane tracking charts and all figured when I moved out to the mid west, the the only thing I would miss out here would be hurricanes and tropical cyclones that we'd have about everything else. Well, you know, we have these severe weather up breaks. I've been here and witness to the coldest temperature ever recorded on record out here in eighty two and eighty five. We had the biggest snowstorm that changed the mayor through and the entire political structure of the city and chaos in seventy eight with mayor Jane Byrne and Michael Bowland Bowland was mayor at the time said everything was going just swell and get a snowstorm crippled the city and everybody in the city knew it wasn't and he lost his job to Jane Byrne. I've been here for the the horrible Plainfield tornado that struck without warming warning and a late August day in nineteen ninety. We saw that terrible heatwave disaster. The largest it to this day is the largest loss of life do a natural disaster in our city. It was the heat in July of nineteen ninety-five which takes on great relevance in our discussions of climate change. Yeah, and t ninety five. I remember that well, and it really speaks to this notion that he can be as deadly as some of the more genyk or sort of dramatic weather like tornadoes and hurricanes. So true. So true and we proved it here. We lost over seven hundred Chicagoans many of whom never were properly dente fide. There were all kinds of sociological studies done afterwards about the elderly and the young perished in that and and how it was related to. The breakdown of the family structure and and our neighborliness looking in on others and the elderly that live in our midst and how important it is. We do that in these extreme weather events, so it was amazing a year later, we had a catastrophic flood. The biggest ever in the state of annoy seventeen inches of rain fell in twenty four hours. We had homes with water up to the third floor dorms after that. So I the experience here in the mid west has been phenomenal. I can't see moving anywhere else at this late stage in my life and I wouldn't want to I, I remember news consoles one time. So would you consider job on the west coast? I said in those days we didn't have the mess. Oh scale. Modeling, we do today and the satellite imagery I said to them. No, I I remember attending a weather conference where the meteorologist can be said the most exciting thing that goes on here in Los Angeles is the. Rise in the ascension and the sinking of the inversion layer with direly out there. Yep, exactly. And I thought that's not for me. And yet, you know, the weather is fascinating in every region of the country in its own way. I just happened to feel comfortable after all these years with our mid west weather and it's victories and they are something to to see. You're listening to this podcast, there's a good chance you love weather, and if you love whether there's no better place to visit than we love whether dot TV, we love weather. Dot TV is an online community for people fascinated with mother nature, whether you're a casual weather fan who simply likes looking at photos or hardcore weather. He wants to know more about why tornadoes form a what the goes, our satellite launch with really about. We love whether dot TV is the site for you. And since we love whether dot TV was created by the Weather Channel, there's no other website that will bring you closer to your favorite meteorologist from the network articles and watch videos from people like Jim cantore, Alex Wilson, real LaRosa and the rest of the Weather Channel year old. Just, you know and love. They're also fun whether quizzes, online forums and exclusive giveaways that only we love whether members can receive join for free today to receive a weekly news. Later and be a part of the most passionate weather fan base at love, weather dot TV. And welcome back to the weather podcast. I'm Dr Marshall shepherd from the university of Georgia, and I'm having a great time talking to Tom skilling WGN TV chief meteorologist. I wanna pivot you. You've heard me mention a few times at Tom, a pioneer allege. Let me just put some proof behind those statements. Tom's known for his extended an in-depth weather forecast at g. and over a decade ago, he coordinated the launch of the Tribune weather center, which combined television station with the Chicago Tribune newspaper. Those are pioneering in addition to being in Volva WGN, which is one of the early super stations that reach people all across the nation. So those pioneering efforts and there are many other things as well. What was your motivation for some of the types of unique things that you've brought to the broadcast meteorology field? Well, I'll tell you one thing. You know, we in the weather. Profession. All of us are great at conceptualizing how nature's putting our weather together. We have to do that in order to be able to forecast it. So in in terms of my television presentations, I always was frustrated by the plexiglas boards and the magnetic the blinking highs and lows. You know, which constituted a weather show years ago. I thought this so much more in this story to put a cross. So we were among the first stations in this market to computerize our weather graphics, I always felt that was the way to go as well as accessing the amazing satellite imagery and putting this across. We've been excited to put the model data that all of us in meteorology in broadcast meteorology can put across and share with our viewers today in terms of the newspaper weather page. I was always frustrated at how poor a lot of these weather pages were. They've improved a great deal since then, but I always thought. What the Tribune weather page would be a success. If it was hanging on the wall of the classrooms around the area, and if we could use not only the page is a means to communicate tomorrow's weather in the weather and the, you know the days ahead but also to educate somehow. So we incorporate a little vignette every day which tries to describe how and conceptualized graphically how the weather's going to be put together. I always thought that Dr Ted Fujita and his ability to visualize tornadoes and micro Burson down person on the work he did over the years, you go through his catalog of papers and and the visuals he produced. He was a master at that, and it made it clear to people how the weather was working. And I think there's an increased relevance to the weather when that's the case. Yeah, I, I hear you completely which. As you noted earlier, that's one of the things I try to do in the Forbes that I write, and we had Greg Forbes on the weather geeks podcast earlier in the year, and he talked about some of that very thing. Now, one thing that you mentioned though you talked about the in depth weather forecast that you do WGN and you talk about these. Marshall, what I was going to say. I've driven many TV producer crazy. I, you know, they. Meteorologist in the country time is always one of the biggest complaint. So yeah, I bet it is director is going crazy, but hey, when you're Tom skilling, you can do that because one. Well. Well, no, it's serious. People might be listening to this. The weather block of newscast is very important to a newscast and also one of them, one of the more commercially viable parts of the newscasts. And when you have one of the best in the buildings, give them all the time they need is my philosophy. But I wanted to ask you something about the evolution of weather casting. So many people get their weather information from smartphones from apps maybe from. So has that changed in any way or forced you to change your presentation style. Oh, the whole media world has been transformed. We when I started, you prepared a radio programs broadcast in you, you you did television whether shows today were on all the platforms are media. Companies realize they've got to go where the audiences in the audience is on hand held devices and online, and tracking Facebook and Twitter, and all the rest show. You know, the job today is become of far more broadly based. We're on as we say on all the platforms and working on that. Did or bad thing, Tom that we have the chance because I've heard mixed feelings. Here's some younger colleagues have gotten into the business that have gotten out because they feel like they can't focus just on being a meteorologist. They're having to do so many things. What's your thought on this is someone has seen it all. Oh, I think I think there is some legitimate criticism of that. I find many television stations. They go up and contract with outside whether providers for, for instance, a lot of the digital conic forecasts. You get on these handheld devices and they put our names on it, but we really don't do those forecasts. We're concentrating on our television and so forth, but they want to have a presence, twenty four hours and and of course I always feel find conic forecast terribly lacking anyway. They simp- the weather is far more complex than what I can communicate on a forecast. And I think our severe weather coverage at times gets a little out of hand. I, you know, well, you know, I'm often put at the top of the show with an inch of snow forecast in January or a cold era break. And I've, I've had. Any discussions with producers. I feel that position in the newscast oughta be reserved for a true catastrophe or something that's really of life threatening consequence. And I'm told in rebuttal that, well, you know, you've got rush hour traffic and an inch of snow can cause much trouble is sometimes sixteen inch snow. And there's, we certainly know about that down here in Atlanta, if you're. Couple of early CDC's sort of the sort of pushback back on either side of that given the importance of whether to the overall station bottom line to some degree. Well, I think you know if we, if we overreact to some of these situations, I think we diminish the credibility. I think people people pretty well understand how the media works and they've you. It is hyping situation for ratings, and I must tell you that I have never in my career, had a news director coming and say, look, you're going to invent a situation that isn't developing that isn't real in order for us to get higher ratings. What's been discovered. The Marshall, as you well know is an has so eloquently put across is the fact that weather is very important. I when I started forty fifty years ago, you were told by the news consultants that they referring to your audience. We're. Only interested in if it's going to rain what the temperature is going to be only for tomorrow, the five day forecast was not really. You know something people waited for that his radically changed. Now, if there's a reason to put the weather on its viewed as a reason to go with the weather and in a way, I'm grateful that that's happened because it it reinforces my view that that I've always had that people are inherently interested in this amazing atmosphere within which all of us operate and the its workings. I would agree. I would agree with that as well. Tom, that's how the whole weather geeks concept came about here at the women. Mike, just or feel who's from Naperville executive producer of weather, geeks and director of graphics and presentations here. I'm not sure if it's exact title. You know, they sort of tapped into this notion at people, love weather and they, they didn't want it sort of at a cursory level. They wanted a deep dive in the what we meteorologists were doing and the concepts that we're using. And even with this podcast, they're getting eavesdrop onto experts in the field. And so it's right. This is the whole concept of what we're trying to do with whether geeks, well, I, you've taken it to a new level and I and you know, it's it's so fun to see somebody else who shares such deep passion but also has developed a means to communicate with the public because I think people are interested in this and why not. We swim in this oceanic atmosphere every single day at affects the way our bodies work. It affects our outlook on life, whether we can work on certain days or go to school, our health, our, our fitness it in affects every aspect of our lives. So little wonder that people would find it interesting. Even down to the basic, how do I dress for tomorrow? There's so many levels in which the weather impacts our lives every single day and every moment of every. Take the guesswork out of your morning routine and start your mornings off, right with AM HQ on the Weather Channel. Every weekday, starting at five AM eastern Jim cantore, Stephanie Abrams, Jen fag. No. Tell you everything you need to know to prepare for the day ahead. You'll get more than just the forecast. You'll get stories of the day and the science behind the forecast with unrivalled expertise and unparalleled weather presentation start your day with AM HQ starting at five AM eastern only on the weather. We are back on the weather gets podcast. I'm Dr Marshall shepherd in. We are in our last segment and I've enjoyed it so much, but I wanna use this last segment to just pick Tom skilling brain on a couple of things. He's a big believer in education. I know he has some thoughts on climate and the climate change discussion. But before I get to those two things, I did want to ask you what is Chicago's toughest forecast over your years there? Forty years. What is the most difficult sort of forecasts area that you deal with their? I think these wetter storms, which often can produce a variety of whether across the same viewing area. I literally one day had a situation which there was flash flooding going on. The show ended do page county are western media western county here, and there was a blizzard in progress in the north end of it. And I had people calling me names on both sides of the rain, snow line and. And you know the, the people in the blizzard area says, what are you talking about a flash flood? We're, we've got zero visibility out here and then hung up from that call and we, you know, we laid it out beautifully. I thought and clearly. But then somebody called from the rainy side of the rain. Snow line said, you're crazy. I, you know, what's his talk snow? It's raining like crazy and my road is flooding and my yard. So the variety of weather and placing these rings snow lines continues even in this day and age to be a real challenge. And and one that's interesting too, and challenging to communicate though. We have marvelous graphics today that allow us to do this in. Of course, the commu- computer modeling that's been done is just amazing. Yeah, the high resolution stuff coming out now, the h our model just unbelievable. Yeah, but living in Atlanta and having lived in DC area that reigns. Snow line. I would agree as a significant headache as well. I want to kind of pivot to discussion that you kind of tease earlier in the podcast and this this sort of divergent view at times among even broadcast meteorologist colleagues on climate change. What is your on this and has it evolved any or has it sort of been pretty steady all along? Oh, it's volved amazingly. I am absolutely convinced. I don't think there's any any question that our climate is changing and it's doing so profoundly and rapidly and with incredible consequences. I mean, look at this past summer wildfires in the west flooding Florence representing, you know. To stage producing two states record tropical cyclone rainfalls an ad that to Wii and Texas, and it's done it within a year. We've had four flood situations in the Chicago area at one point or another. During the past year, you have drought and in Europe and wildfires in northern Scandinavia. Drought in Australia, Japan, going from high heat to floods, you know, an incredible heat in the Pakistan and India and so forth. This is happening and what's really distressing is that the current political leadership in Washington doesn't get it. You feel inclined to say, I wish somebody out there would pick up a book or bring a scientist into the mix to inform them about what's going on. This is not the time to be taking the approach, burn, baby burn when it comes to fossil fuels. I just bought an electric car. It's the best thing I've ever done. It's definitely the wave of the future. I think the day will come Marshall when we look at gas stations as being a part of antiquity. The way we do the blacksmiths I could see that being the case, but I wanna pick up on something. You just said, because it was a question I wanted to ask you because I know how big you are giving talks and going out in the schools. Do you think we're doing enough? Because I think part of the issue, some some of the sort of whole climate pushback is just a misinformation campaign because as in clear his said, it's difficult to get a man to understand something when a salary depends on him, not understanding it. So some of that play, but do. Do you think we're getting enough science in elementary schools and lessons across the country. Some of this? No, I don't. And and I think we in the media have to do more as well. Look, you don't want to shove this down people's throat because it'll be an obvious adverse reaction to that. And that's not our intention. This first of all is not a political issue. It's a scientific issue where it becomes politicals. We need policymakers to do make informed judgments on what to do about it or try and do about it. But no, I think we have to, I think, using real time, I think this effort to attribute extreme weather events and climate changes role in them where it's possible is a good move. Talking about attribution science for those just kind of the forefront of the climate science and I agree it has potential can be can be misused, but I think you're right. It's something that we certainly need to go down that road. I think you're right, Marshall, and and I know you do it in your column regularly and and eloquently I've worked, I have the joy of working with Don wobbles out of the university of Illinois. He's one of the major, yes. He's Beijing behind the national climate assessments. He was one of the movers and shakers and getting the Montreal protocol passed. It banned chlorofluorocarbon propellant from our aerosol cans. They were destroying our own layer and we found recently the Chinese are cheating on that and releasing CFC back into the air. Again, they've been addenda fide and something presumably will be done about that, but it, you know, the Montreal protocol proved one thing. We got all the countries of the world together at working toward one goal, and we proved that we can have an impact on a negative trends in our environment, and we should be approaching this the same way. I, I'm. Horrified. What I've seen go on with the policy is dismantling of the EPA those scrubbing of climate change data and mention from EPA websites among others. The banning of the use of the term climate change in Florida among state officials. I think this is preposterous and ill-timed to put it mildly. So I think we must continue to educate and point out to people because unless it happens in people's backyards, I don't think they understand that this really is an issue, but Dan, but Tom, one of the things that I've heard from tallies in our field and is, you know your broadcaster and you, you have a certain standard there. Some, I'm, you know, this was something that I with wells president of AMS this notion in some markets. There are some broadcast, you're all are hesitant to talk about the topic or even what even mention it for fear of pushback ratings. Oh, coming across. How, how have you. Navigated that Marshall. I think just longevity in the market. I'm able to say things that a young broadcaster and meteorologist might not be able to say, and I absolutely concur with you. I think there's some markets. We're pretty progressive up here in Chicago. You could talk about climate change, and when I look at the forums that we do, I've been working with a lot of our congress people and all who have put together public forums on this that turn outs are amazing. The level of question it questioning that goes on in this indicates we've got a population that understands this is an issue and is curious and interested in forming themselves more about it. There are some markets where you couldn't do that, I'm sure, and it's a shame I, that's a real dilemma about it. You you talked about forums. I wanted to make sure I talked to a little bit about tornado and severe storms seminar at Fermilab that's going on thirty thirty five years or so. That is happening. It will. You know, this was the first year we didn't do it it. We've done it every April and we have had a literal who's who of the science, the severe weather research and forecasts community. And gosh, we've had Ted foot Gino we've had Chuck does well run down the list. Burgess has been in even Kelvin. Tro Ghimire was one of our speakers on science adviser. Just recently confirmed for the president. Oh, I tell you his his presentation on numerical modelling, the atmosphere which I had to Google to remember the year that we had Kelvin in. It was two thousand five. I know lie Marshall. This was one of the best presentations. Ida sat there and all listening to him. Describe to a lay audience. What's involved in this? The presentation was engaging. It was fascinating. It was articulate and and beautifully. Done as any I've ever heard on a complex subject like this. He is amazing as have been so many Don Burgess talking about Doppler radars role in the work he's done over career. In this in this arena, we've had folks from NASA, your al-matar, one of them, and I, you know what an amazing organization that is. That's why we've got to watch carefully and make sure that an incredible operation like NASA. One of the gems in this country's crown is not as properly funded and not restrained by the political climate. I completely agree and I serve on Nasr's cheer Nasr's earth science advisory committee. And I will say that Minnesota Brian Stein has been very. Saying the right things and doing the right things on that topic that I'm running out of time, but I wanted to get your final thoughts on what you think the future of weather forecasting on air weather presentation is, is there something that you see in your crystal ball and zero to five year out hero the ten year timeframe that you just see coming? Well, I tell you something. I think this immersion graphic technology that the Weather Channel employed to describe storm surge. For instance, we're going to see more of this where this improvement in visualization of science, including meteorology, is going to continue as we have better and better computers and better and better software to put these. These sorts of presentations across the modeling that's done is getting better by the day, and it's really standing. We're going to see that continue to improve. I think. The outlook is is very sunny there lot of platforms on which this information will be communicated and that reach a greater number of people. And so I think I think for those of us who are engaged in this line of work, it's going to be a fascinating period. And I include the research community that on who shoulders, all of us stand as media types. It's, you know, it's one of the things that was big that we try to do my tenure AMS really foster this notion of the weather enterprise. I think you're a big part of it. If if my career ended today, this is one of the highlights of it having a chance to spend little under an hour with Trump skilling. I'm gracious, and thank you so so much for joining us on the weather geeks, podcast, Marshall. It has been an honor beyond words to work with you on this. And I, I hope we do it again, and I'm just thrilled that I've had a chance finally. Tonight look forward to doing it finished phase. Thank you. Jim.

Dr Marshall shepherd Weather Channel Tom skilling Chicago president chief meteorologist Chicago Atlanta New Jersey Jim cantore university of Wisconsin midwest us WGN Tribune weather center WGN Florida
The "Forrest Gump" of Chicago Crime | S1 E5

The City

34:49 min | 2 years ago

The "Forrest Gump" of Chicago Crime | S1 E5

"Henry Henderson was at his wit's end. The city was like a vacuum sucking in illegal dumping activities. This is clearly wrong. This is clearly illegal and they're clearly the authority to make the stop. The Commissioner of Chicago's department of the environment had spent the last several years fighting John Christopher's illegal dumps. And yet the mountains of debris remained in Northland. L Henderson had reasoned with John Christopher. He had threatened him with legal action. He'd eventually taken him to court, but even with a civil ruling against him, the courts had failed Henderson had even turned to the state Environmental Protection Agency. None of it had worked well. John Christopher, basically, disppeared. Henry Henderson had not been able to bring John Christopher to Justice or get Justice for the people of north Mondale. But Henry Henderson had one more card to play Scott's old. Friend and who he was. I assistant that the time Henderson called on Scott Lazar. I assistant US attorney in the northern district of Illinois. In other words, one of Chicago's top federal prosecutors Lazar is office had the power to bring federal criminal charges against John Christopher. So we think that this is a larger criminal endeavour here, and we really need some help. Henry was like inspector Javert going after Christopher, that's Scott Lazar, an inspector, John there is the police inspector from lame as rob, who relentlessly hunts down the main character over the course of the story. It's not a perfect comparison, but basically Lazar new Henderson was on a mission. He knew about Christopher and he'd been pursuing them for a long time. And even though they were friends, Lazar gives Henderson the brush off I have to rip off. Lazar basically says, sorry, Henry, we can't help you catch this. John Christopher guy. The DOJ doesn't work on municipal waste issues, but that wasn't the real reason. We couldn't tell Andrea Christopher was working undercover at the time not only to the federal government already know all about John Christopher. John Christopher was on its payroll even while he was dumping in north Lauderdale this was a sacred undercover investigation, which was one of the more successful on their cover investigations at our office. And so we weren't going to end at Chicago's most notorious illegal. Dumper was also working for the FBI. I'm Robin Aamer and from USA today, this is the city. If you like the city, you may like another show from USA today. The five things podcast covers the five most important stories of the day and why they matter in less than five minutes. New episodes are available every morning, Monday through Saturday, and you can subscribe to five things for free on apple podcasts or wherever you listen. So who was this guy who showed up to a vacant lot on Chicago's west side in a limousine who is John Christopher? Really to answer that question, we need to go back to January nineteen seventy nine and then mayor Michael Bowland epic. Million tons of snow over twenty four in the city of Chicago. Visit. Sierra by the federal government. Even in the pantheon of Chicago winters. This was one for the ages. People still talk about the blizzard of nineteen seventy nine and not just because of all the snow Blanda had to defend his administration's response to this record snowfall to an angry and skeptical city council. Here enough streets, four thousand miles of streets. That the business from Chicago Los Angeles and meteorologists had forecast just two to four inches of snow and social Kaga was completely unprepared. When the blizzard instead dumped more than twenty inches on the city, the storm collapsed roofs and trapped people in their homes, paralyzing the city for weeks and getting rid of all that snow would prove to be a monumental challenge for the city concerned about the getting equipment of people out the district. You're not doing an accounting at the same time. We'll have an opportunity to do that. A later pointing the ensuing cleanup and that lack of accounting presented a perfect opportunity for then twenty eight year old. John Christopher the city hired private contractors to help clear the streets and Christopher had a guy inside city government who paid him for snow removal work. He never did. I don't recall the exact facts of that case, but I can say that he was alleged to have been submitting false invoices. This is Jim Davis. He was an FBI agent from nineteen eighty five to two thousand eleven and this epic snowstorm would eventually cause his life to intersect with John Christopher's in a very big way. I talked to John every day multiple times every single day from July of nineteen ninety two until January of nineteen ninety. Six. I probably had a close relationship with him during that time than than anyone else in. It was a kind of a love hate relationship. If you Google, Jim Davis FBI. One of the first hits you get is a photo of a very tall man in a black shirt with dog tags around his neck. That's Jim Davis. He's standing in front of a white tiled wall, and he's looking straight at the camera. In one hand, he's holding a piece of paper that reads f. b. i. twelve December two thousand three. And his other hand is resting on the shoulder of Saddam Hussein. I arrested Saddam Hussein, you know, telling you man, life is like a box of chocolates. Man, I am the Forrest Gump, the FBI, Jim Davis calls himself the forest. Gump of the FBI because he has a tendency to show up in big moments in history like Saddam Hussein's, arrest. He and John Christopher were well matched in that way. A federal prosecutor gave John Christopher almost the same nickname Chicago's quote, Forrest Gump of crime in the many hours they later spent together. Jim Davis learned a lot about John Christopher's illegal schemes, including the one he pulled during the blizzard of seventy nine. You'd Goram to some corrupt folks at the driver's license bureau. You know, secretary state's office. He had had a previous relationship with. He got a driver's license in the name of Richard McCann in the chaos. After the blizzard, John Christopher was part of a group of people that conspired to defraud the city. They submitted fake invoices for snow removal work. They never did the company name. They used was McCann construction. So the city issued a check. Check in the name of Richard McCann. The name on John Christopher's fake ID. The check was for a hundred and twelve thousand dollars a decent hall for not having cleared so much as a teaspoon of snow. So check in hand. John Christopher walked into a Bank. He tried to cash the check, but something about him, raised a red flag with Bank employees who asked him for his. I d. These guys look to Jen who is Italian and said, you know, you don't look Irish John Christopher responded by saying he was adopted, but McCann the name on his fake ID had blown his cover. And so Jon Christopher handled these Bank employees the way he normally handled people who got in his way, he tried to bribe them. He offered to take the vice president of the Bank out to lunch. And when that didn't work, he offered him a Betamax an expensive precursor to the VHS, but the Bank manager didn't budge. She ended up calling the FBI. The city had paid John Christopher from a pool of money that came from federal disaster relief funds, which meant that John Christopher hadn't just defraud the city. He had also defrauded the federal government, the FBI arrested, John Christopher, and he now faced up to fifteen years in prison. Without knowing it, he'd also helped alter the course of Chicago history more than thirty. Other companies were also investigated for defrauding Chicago's snow disaster fund at least one city official was indicted for helping them and mayor ba- Landik was blamed for letting it all happen on his watch. In the next election, he'd lose to an upstart anti machine candidate named Jane Byrne who became the only woman ever to serve as Chicago's mayor. This is why people still talk about the blizzard of nineteen Seventy-nine. It wasn't just all the snow. It was the political fallout. John Christopher's entanglement with the law started long before the blizzard. He came up in a world or being the Forrest Gump of Chicago crime wasn't all that remarkable. John Christopher grew up just a few miles from north Lonsdale in an Italian neighborhood. Full of families descended from the old Taylor street crew. One of the original street crews of the Chicago outfit, which in Chicago is what we call the mob. His great uncle was a guy named fior who cherry. They called him fee, and he was kind of a notorious mob guy. And you know, in the fifties and sixties the press described Bucci berry as a west side overlord in charge of loansharking and other rackets. He was also suspected of having been involved in multiple murders. One of which was incredibly gruesome. I'll spare you the details, but I can tell you that it involved a blow torch and a cattle prod. Gutierrez was later caught on an f. b. i. wire laughing and bragging about it. He was never indicted for murder, but he was indicted late in life. For theft, soliciting others to commit theft and possession of two hundred thousand dollars worth of stolen construction equipment. John Christopher's crimes. At least the ones he told the FBI about started when he was a teenager, he was a tough streak kidding. You know, if you look at it some of the transcripts, he often refers to himself as you know, being on the corner. You know, this is the way I operate on the corner. Some guys go to college. I came from the corner. When he was a teenager in the mid to late sixties. John Christopher joined a neighborhood street gang called the jokers. He later tell Jim Davis that the jokers would quote protect their neighborhood from any quote, undesirable elements that meant mostly black families who were moving to the west side as it transitioned from white to Black John Christopher, and the jokers threatened and intimidated these newcomers and in some cases through molotov cocktails into their buildings. John Christopher was arrested at nineteen for breaking into cars. He tried to bribe both the arresting officer and the judge. He was sent to the army instead of prison was honorably discharged soon after he told the FBI that he thought his great uncle fee had something to do with getting him out a few years later, his father got him a job with the department of streets and sanitation John Christopher, and the other workers would often sit around the office playing cards. Instead of working one day, someone from the inspector general's office, caught them slacking off. The inspector threatened to report them. So John Christopher and his colleagues beep up the inspector and told him to write a good report on the unit which he did, but ultimately defrauding the federal government after the blizzard of nineteen seventy nine was what put him on the FBI's radar. John Christopher snow fraud case went to trial in nineteen eighty, but ended in a mistrial. And while he was waiting for a new trial to begin, he was looking for silencer to kill a witness against him. A silence are silencers. Are those devices you attached to the muzzle of a gun to muffle the sound of a shot? They were and still are illegal in Illinois. The FBI had gotten word from an informant that John Christopher was in the market for a silencer allegedly. So he could murder a federal witness. So the FBI coordinated with an undercover agent from the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms in order to sell him. One minute was a by bus scenario rates which all have been once John Christopher was sentenced to four years in federal prison for possession of the silencer and another eight years for trying to cash the snow removal check, but behind bars. He stayed true to his roots. John didn't rat. In the parlance of the outfit. John was a stand up guy. He didn't snitch on anyone else who'd been involved in the snow fraud. Even though he could have parlayed that information for a lighter sentence. John's a us associated to the mafia in Chicago. There were other people that were involved in that scheme that John didn't give up. So he went to prison for them, didn't you know take anybody down in. I think that he expected that in return for that in return, Jim Davis says, John Christopher expected the mob to support his family since he would not be able to provide for them while he was locked up. I think that he expected that they would do a better job at taking care of his family while he was in prison and they hadn't done that. After roughly four years in federal prison, John Christopher was put on parole. He returned to his old ways, but he also came back with doubts about his loyalty to the mob. This is alternately how Jim Davis would become John Christopher's f. b. i. handler when the bureau exploited John Christopher's doubts about the mob and he crossed over and started wearing a wire. That's after the break. Fall is the busiest time of year. For me. I always have a lot of plans with friends going out for drinks, seeing a lot of movies, all of that really feeds my soul, but it doesn't leave me much time to cook, delicious healthy food that's going to nourish my body. So when I need healthy fuel fast, I know exactly where to turn daily harvest. Daily harvest delivers perfectly portioned cups of frozen organic fruits and vegetables directly to your door. All you have to do is add water or your favorite milk to your Cup, and then just blend or heat. I started out with daily harvests plant based ready to blend protein smoothies and activated breakfast bowls both really delicious all the flavors I've tried, but now I'm falling in love with their new savory harvest bowls. They're an amazing healthy dinner that's faster than takeout. The cauliflower rice with pesto is my latest favorite. If that sounds good to you, go to daily. Rush harvest dot com and enter promo code the city to get three cups free in your first box. That's promo code the city for three free daily harvest cups at daily dash harvest dot com. Daily dash harvest dot com. If you've ever needed to hire, you know that the right person can have a huge impact on your business and the pressure to find that person can be overwhelming. The great news is the easiest place to find that next great hire is right under your nose linked in Lincoln is the world's largest professional network. Seventy percent of the US workforce is already there. Most Lincoln members haven't recently visited the top job boards, but nine out of ten members are open to new opportunities so you can only reach them on Lincoln, Lincoln jobs matches people to your role based on who they really are there skills interests, and even how open they are to new opportunities. This way your job gets seen by more of the right people. That's why a new hire is made every ten seconds using Lincoln and businesses rate. Lincoln forty percent higher than job boards at delivering quality candidates, hurry to. Linked in dot com. Slash the city and get fifty dollars off your first job post that's linked in dot com. Slash the city to get fifty dollars off your first job, post Lincoln dot com. Slash the city terms and conditions apply when John Christopher got out of prison in the late nineteen eighty s he came back to Chicago and started a construction company. One that had road repair and paved parking lots and crushed gravel by June of nineteen ninety. He had set up his illegal dumps in north Lauderdale and to help establish his new business. He turned to a familiar ruse Bank fraud. John Christopher's. Second run in with the FBI starts with a Bank failure. John Major false statements related to loans received from cosmic Boden vein to buy his trucks for his business cosmopolitan. National Bank goes belly up. If fails. And that attracts the attention of the FBI's financial crime squad agent there named Tony Dangelo. He identified John Christopher as a subject in that investigation. Basically, what I did is I I looked at everything that was going on the Bank. This is Tony Dangelo. Cosmopolitan Bank had seemed like it was thriving with money in its vault and plenty of account holders, and I'm wondering how could a well capitalized Bank in the late nineteen eighties, all of a sudden go into receivership. So I looked at the bad loans and who turns out to be at the center of this Bank failure. Once I looked at the bad loans, the probably the biggest bad loan at the Bank was for an individual named John Christopher and his various entities. Mr. Christopher had a couple of trucking companies, some other businesses and he had borrowed. I can't remember the exact amount, but I believe the total deficit of the Bank was in the millions two point, five million. That's what John Christopher would later Saint in court. And he also overstated. The success of his companies is trucking businesses. So he basically made up income that was not there. It looked like John Christopher had used these bad loans to build up his business. It's easy to build up your business, especially when you're not paying loans back. So Tony Dangelo does a background check on John Christopher and finds he's already in the FBI's database. I was amazed because found out he was a convicted felon organized crime. Tony Dangelo learns all about the snow fraud. Case and the silencer and the alleged plan to murder a federal witness and about John Christopher's ties to the outfit or knew he was extremely bad news with his criminal background. It was highly unlikely that John Christopher would actually qualify for millions of dollars in Bank loans. So Tony Dangelo begins to suspect that the Bank president must be in on it de ngelo wanted to use John Christopher to get to the Bank president, but everybody told me, John Christopher will not talk to you. There's absolutely no, he's gonna cooperate. He's not going to talk to you. It's a waste of time. He decides to try anyway. He finds John Christopher's number and calls him and actually picked up the phone. I introduced myself. I take a low key approach, so I told them who I was, I looked at your your dealings with cosmopolitan Bank. I've got you dead to right on financial fraud with your loan application. You might think John Christopher would just hang up the phone. Point, but Tony Dangelo says, just meet with me. All you have to do is listen. And I found in my career that people are very curious. They wanna know what, what information you have about them? What evidence and also mentioned to him. I know you just to jail, you got a couple of kids maybe we can help each other. So ultimately he agreed to meet me. You wanna meet me alone. So I did meet him alone. We met at a Pizza Hut. Insist row, Illinois. Cicero is a suburb just west of Chicago. It's where Capone based a lot of his operations and this Pizza Hut was less than a ten minute drive from the north Lonsdale dumps. So when Henry Henderson, the environment Commissioner says John Chris rebate soclean dispirit John Christopher was just a mile or two away. Eating pizza with the FBI. Here's how Tony de ngelo describes that first meeting. John Christopher was out of central casting for the sopranos. I mean, if you wanna know a mobbed up guy, take a picture. John Christopher built like a bull about five, ten stocky no neck. Wearing a member's only jacket toxin, Dem's and does. So I laid out my case against him. You know, I said, I'm fellow talion while we meet a couple more times. You can just listen to me talk. You don't have to do anything. So we established a comfort level. So they meet again at the same Pizza Hut in Cicero, I knew he had, I think at one of his sons was about eight or ten in the during the first conversation, he mentioned that there's son like baseball. I brought him a a box of baseball cards for son. They talk again and again, and again, and pretty soon they're talking regularly, but they're not talking about the dumps or the people living near them with each meeting. You establish more of a report, more of a trust factor, get to know each other, and I'm doing analysis of him what's making him tick, Tony Dangelo learns. But John Christopher is still angry about the way his family was treated while he was in prison. The promises have been broken. Usually he wouldn't bring something like that up so that something you could tell he was harboring deep seated. Resentment or is family not being taken care of. I think he was really scared about serving another long stretch in prison in not seeing his kids knowing that they're going to be teenagers and not being there to Dabney influence over their lives slowly. But surely, John Christopher starts to give the FBI information. I about cosmopolitan national Bank. The Bank president would later be convicted for bribery Bank fraud and tax evasion. And pretty soon John Christopher would give the bureau much much more that's after the break. Before we get back to the story. I wanna tell you about another podcast you might enjoy if you like the city. You might also like future. Perfect. A new podcast from vox future perfect explores provocative ideas that could radically improve the world in time where the news has never felt more dire or distressing future. Perfect. Offers a window into a brighter more hopeful world. It's host. Dylan Matthews asks big questions. Like what career should I choose to do the most good? Or is it possible to make our prisons more humane? These questions don't have simple, yes or no answers, but they do kick off fascinating conversations. Listen to those conversations every Wednesday on future. Perfect. By vox you can find the show on apple podcasts or ever you're listening. Okay. Back to the story. FBI special agent. Tony Angelo had made himself a fixture in John Christopher's life. I would travel around with him, go to meetings with them, and I had a cover John, introduce me as his pin headed lawyer from down in Springfield, we what kind of meetings would you go to with? We had a meeting once in Greek town, and the owner of the restaurant came up and John, you know, he'd get a Cup of coffee and rather than us spoon, he'd stick his big fat finger in there and stirred up. And he looked at the owner of the restaurant. He goes, if you don't pay your milk money, you're gonna pineapple through the window. In other words, he's threatening to bomb the restaurant. And I guess this guy maybe fallen behind us. That's probably why John pick this restaurant for the meeting, the FBI was grooming John Christopher as an informant. And here he was making threats right in front of one of its agents, a kick them. Under the table. And he looked over and forgot. I was sitting there in moments like these John Christopher was inadvertently revealing that his crimes still went way beyond Bank fraud crimes. The FBI was willing to overlook like that six-storey dump in a certain Westside neighborhood. One day during one of these meetings, he goes, oh, are you interested in politicians? John Christopher saying this to an f. b. i. agents. This was a big deal. Remember John Christopher was a stand up guy. He never read it on anyone even when it could have meant less prison time, and he knew the stories about his great uncle fee about what the mob could do to anyone who crossed them. But John Christopher had done the math given all the evidence, Tony de ngelo had amassed against him. He was almost certainly facing prison time for the cosmopolitan Bank fraud and based on what had happened before he's expected that if he went back to prison, his family would not be taken care of. So when John Christopher asks, oh, are you interested in politicians? Absolutely. What do you have on politicians? Well, little note the time that John Christopher them bribing and paying off and doing what every new with aldermen and various city officials, Tony Dangelo. Had just landed a major informant one so big. He was now outside of his purview. So the FBI calls on its public corruption squad and special agent, Jim Davis. And at first, Jim Davis is skeptical about this new informants. Here I'm going to be skeptical everybody, you know, it just kinda sounded too good to be true from the perspective of guy doing a corruption investigation. You know, this guy walks in the door and basically says, I am a bribing machine in. I was trying to verify that. I wanted to make sure that he was telling me the truth. As they're sitting down for one of their first interviews, Jim Davis decides to give John Christopher a little test to see if he's really equipped to Brian elected official across the interview table. Jim Davis asks John Christopher how much money he has on him. And in response Jong Christopher stands up an empty his pockets, pulling out change and balls of Lind and gum wrappers choice would okay. John. If a bogus visual came by today and said, you know, I need five hundred dollars. What would you do. He says, oh, any reached into his back pocket and he pulled out five one hundred dollar bills that he kept in his back pocket specifically for paying bribes. And that's the way he walked around life. John Christopher tells Jim Davis that he's been bribing twenty fourth ward, alderman Bill Henry to the tune of five thousand dollars a month and not only Bill. Henry Johnson does the, he'd been paying public officials entire life. There's another alderman who's palm. He Greece in exchange for help setting up yet. Another rock crusher, their city inspectors who showed up at the dumps, their city workers. He bribed them even if he wasn't totally sure what they could do to help him. Just as a way of quote, keeping the heat off. He had grown up in Chicago doing business in Chicago committing gonna, petty crimes when he was a younger kid that that they resolved by rive in police officers or. Prosecutors to John Christopher. This was just the cost of doing business. So using tire life had been can ingrain with this idea that you paid public officials to get through life to people in north London. While the illegal dumping was the only one of John Christopher's climbs that mattered. But the FBI's interest was elsewhere to the bureau. The legal dumps just one chapter in John Christopher's long, criminal history. Why take him down for dumping on the west side when you could instead use him to catch corrupt city officials all over town because of John. Christopher really was this bribing machine. Then he presented the FBI with a unique opportunity if he could wear a wire and record his meetings with city officials record his bribes to city officials. There is no telling how many crooked politicians they catch because here's this guy, a standup guy who never ratted who's engaged in all kinds of illegal. Activity who's connected to the outfit. I mean, he's the great nephew of notorious mobster fee Bucci, airy. He's the Forrest Gump of Chicago crime. He's exactly the kind of guy you'd never suspect of working for the FBI which would make him the perfect f. b. i. mole. I don't think that we've ever had anybody who had his level of credibility who was working with her day, had a sense that this was going to be a big case. And so when Henry Henderson reaches out to his friend, Scott Lazar the federal prosecutor saying, we think that this is a larger criminal endeavour here and we really need some help. Scotland had to give Henderson the brush off. I had to rebuff him because John Christopher had already been recruited by the FBI we couldn't tell on about it. Christopher was working under governor at the time. The feds could have sent John Christopher to prison in nineteen Ninety-one. Federal prosecutors could have gone after him for legal, dumping the mountain, the dust, the asthma, cracked foundations. The feds could have ended at all, but letting continue was useful. This was a sacred undercover investigation was one of the more successful undercover investigations at our office acted and so we weren't going to end. I mean, we knew about the legal dumping going on very well because I was at the heart of the investigation. That's next time on the city. The city is a production of USA today and is distributed in partnership with wondering, you can subscribe to the show on apple podcasts, NPR one or ever. You're listening right now if you like the show please rate and review us and be sure to tell your friends about us. Our show is reported and produced by Wilson Sayer Jenny Koss and me, Robin, EMA, our editor Osam Greenspan, then Austin's our story consultant original music and mixing by Hans Brown additional production by Taylor making Isabelle cockerel and beyond. The media's Chris Davis is our VP investigations. Scott Stein is our VP of product. Our executive producer is Liz Nelson. The USA today, networks, president and publisher is Mira bell. Wadsworth thank you to our sponsors for supporting the show and special. Thanks to Michel Yussef and Daniel's cove. Additional support comes from the fund for investigative journalism and the social Justice news nexus at northwestern. In university archival audio, courtesy of WBZ NewsRadio seven eighty and one five point nine FM if you like this show, you may also like WBZ's new podcast on background, which takes you inside the smoke filled back rooms of Chicago, Illinois government to better understand the people places and forces shaping today's politics. I'm rob Aamer. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter at the city pod or visit our website where you can find photos of the blizzard of nineteen seventy nine and more. That's the city podcast dot com.

John Christopher FBI John John Christopher guy Chicago Jim Davis Andrea Christopher federal government Henry Henderson Illinois Jon Christopher USA Tony Dangelo Forrest Gump Jong Christopher Scott Lazar fraud John Major north Lauderdale
Stacey Abrams

Words Matter

36:39 min | 8 months ago

Stacey Abrams

"Welcome to words matter with Katie. Barlow and Joe Lockhart welcome to words matter. I'm Katie Barlow. Our goal is to promote objective reality as a wise man once said everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Not Their own facts. Words have power and words have consequences. Our guest today is a New York Times. Bestselling Author Serial Entrepreneur nonprofit. Ceo and political leader in two thousand eighteen after serving for eleven years in the Georgia House of Representatives seven as Democratic leader. Stacey Abrams became the Democratic nominee for governor of Georgia winning more votes than any other Democrat in the state's history leader Abrahams was the first black woman to become the gubernatorial nominee for a major party in the United States and she was the first black woman and first Georgian to deliver the response to the state of the union after witnessing the handling of the two thousand eighteen election by the Georgia Secretary of State's office leader. Abrams launched fair fight to ensure every American has a voice in our election system over the course of her career leader. Abrahams has founded multiple organizations devoted to voting rights training and hiring young people of color and tackling social issues at both the state and national levels. Stacy is a lifetime member of the Council on Foreign Relations where she serves on the subcommittee on diversity leader Abrahams. Welcome to words matter. Thank you for having me so before we talk about politics. I WanNa talk about you for a moment. You are the second of six children. You're born in Madison. Wisconsin raised in Gulfport Mississippi and Georgia. And both of your parents are methodist ministers. So I wanted to get you to talk about growing up as a black woman in the south in the nineteen seventies and eighties and how that origin story informs your work today. Thank you so my parents were at the time I was growing up. They were my mom's Librarian. My Dad was shipyard worker. My mother received her Masters Degree in library. Science from the University of Wisconsin. Which is why was born in the north but my family my parents were both from how burdensome tippy we were working poor. My mom was accomplished librarian. She became the head of the college library however moments in her career. She made less money than the janitor. Who cleaned the college? My Dad was shipyard worker. Who by having a college education because he had a learning disability was presumed not capable of being in an office and having one of those jobs but was an extraordinarily hard worker. Who did everything along my mom to take care of us but we were still working poor but my parents wanted us to understand that our economic situation did not dictate our futures. They told us we have three jobs. Go to church at school. Take care of each other church because they wanted us to believe in something larger than ourselves go to school because they knew education had basically been their way out For both my parents were first generation college and the third was service that it's not enough to do for yourself and your family. Your responsibility is to help others My Mom's putting it was no matter how little we have. There's someone with less. Your job is to serve that person. And that's how I grew up in apparently was not able to forget it. It sounds like it. It started early in with your folks. But when did you think you might want to pursue a career in public service? My Mom and dad would take us out volunteer almost weekly when we growing up and while I appreciated what we did. I was always bemused by the idea that these two ordinary people and their six kids could six the poverty of Mississippi. And so I would ask my parents. Shouldn't someone else doing this to shouldn't there be a macro system that can solve this problem. And they said that's hope government and I became fascinated with understanding why the public sector didn't work the way it could. It seemed to me that parody was inefficient. It was immoral. And it squandered human capital. Though in high school I became very aware of politics and in College. The started working more as a volunteer activists but having gotten into a fight with the mayor of Atlanta. When I was a freshman in college I ended up getting a job working in his office as a sophomore. And that really turned my attention towards the idea of running across when they myself so you first came to national attention during your two thousand and eight run for the governor of Georgia and in two thousand nineteen when you delivered the Democratic response to the State of the Union address but you were twenty five year overnight success story. You've been a fixture at Georgia politics for more than a decade. Has Anything surprised you about life on the national political stage? I think it exactly what you articulated. I am a twenty five year overnight success so you know I worked for it. I did federal internships because I wanted to understand how the federal government works. I worked in a win being and I worked for the EPA twice. I had been very intentional about building my private sector understanding. I was very successful. Democratic leader Helping Guide Chambers at faced being put into super minority status meaning Republicans would hold two-thirds majority and for seven years. I blocked that from happening when Hugh Southern Chambers to never don't differ minority status even though the Georgia state Senate did I worked to build infrastructure and to not only be successful in my political work but to build the capacity for the principles. I helped me through the party. I support to be able to do. Its work and we were successful so successful than twenty eighteen. Even though I didn't become governor we flip sixteen. Legislators we took the ancestral seat of Newt Gingrich and Lucy Macbeth gun take the activists now hopes that seed what is surprising to me is how not how much work it takes to get where we need to be but how persistent. We have to be to make sure people know what's happening. The challenge particularly in the south is that we are so off as a lost cause for Democrat that much of the work that I and other than doing for decades has been lost on a national conversation and yet we are the fastest growing part of the country across the sunbelt. We are the vanguard of the next generation of leadership and I'm always a bit taken aback. At how little people pay attention to what's happening here leader Abrams. It's Joe Lockhart again. Thanks for joining us. Can I turn your attention to what I think is taking a lot of your time now? the problem of voter suppression. Not just in Georgia but around the country unless you're political pro you hear voter suppression. You probably think it's bad but I'm I think most of our listeners don't really know what it is. Can you sort of lay out from your perspective? The problem and how we got to where we are today. There's depression is any interference with the ability of eligible voter to cast a vote and that begins with Kenneth Voter Register. And can they stay on the wall so are they purged? They raise from the database. Second is can they act with about that means? Can they get an absentee ballots requested? Do they have a polling place? That's nearby are they. Given opportunities to early vote us to post to be available in there and then the third is can your ballot. Count it when you cast their ballots to get rejected as nasty ballot. Are you giving a provisional ballot because of a mistake made and your provisional ballot is thrown out? Do you have a system in electron a system? That doesn't actually record your vote. Do you have to stand in line for four hours? And because you have to get out of wine your vote does not count because you simply can't afford the poll tax that is standing in line and so it's Ki- registering Stanley rose tenure. He cast about your ballots counted. That looks different in every state but that architecture is true across all fifty states the other part of the challenges that between Nineteen Sixty five and twenty thirteen. The states that were the most egregious about blocking access to the right to vote were held in a state of Basi- they had to do the right thing because of the Voting Rights Act but in twenty thirteen the shelby holder decision was set by the Supreme Court right ended essentially the voting rights act and and the gutting of the voting rights. Act WHAT THE CHIEF. Justice said that braces on his day. Discrimination isn't happening go about Your Business and do what you want and almost immediately states that were once governed by the voting rights act or states that demographic changes started implementing. Almost every one of the measures that I described they started pershing. Voters made it harder for people to register. Made it impossible to use the identification that people use for decades they made stricter that aren't the issue of can go and get your prescription filled. It is do you have an original copy of your birth certificate from the state that would not let you be born in a hospital during segregation. That's the kind of issue that we have. And so what I want folks to understand. Is that unlike the nineteen sixties we're voter suppression was billy clubs and hose administrative errors. Its rules and your paddock. Mazes that convince voters that it's either not worth the effort or it's just impossible to defeat it and it has a physical effective blocking you from voting. It has the psychic effect with convention. You it's not worth trying. I recall that opinion from the Supreme Court Gutting section five of the Voting Rights Act. And if I recall correctly I believe that was famous line in the dissent from justice. Ginsburg WHO said getting rid of those protections like throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm. Because you're not getting wet exactly and I wanted to ask you about your work with that piece the litigation piece because as I understand it with firefight it's kind of a two pronged attack or approach both through litigation and legislation that's focusing on those three areas that the registration before the vote the access to the ballots you vote and then the the counting of the vote and making sure that that's effective and proper there was a case. I believe that was filed as a part of your work and I wanted to ask you how that was going and the status of that so we filed a massive litigation. We are currently in Discovery. We hope to be through discovery by the end of the spring and we will get an order from the court at that point Setting a trial date but we are in the midst of and we've had experts who have valid data what we had seen and the information that we aggregated from voters across the state. We've had experts say that we only saw the tip of the iceberg in some way and the reality is while we're fighting with lawsuits here in Georgia. This is happening across the country Mark Elias Sue Perkins. We just filed a lawsuit and Texas the closure of five hundred and fourteen precincts. I think it's I think that's number. It's a roughly five hundred precincts in Texas blocked. People from being able to pass their votes in a Democratic primary. And one thing we have to understand. Is that voter? Suppression doesn't simply exist. When it's a general election it happens here wound. We just tend not to notice and if we do not fix the system acid source and if we do not it at every election then it becomes so pernicious that it's almost impossible to disconnect it from how our democracy works and worse it makes us think it's user error that we've made a mistake as opposed to the fact that we should be able to expect better from a system that undergirds our entire positive government so I happen to have someone over at my house. Who's from Austin Texas on Super Tuesday? And she was telling me that her husband had gone in voted and they live in the middle or upper middle class neighborhood and he said he walked in walked out. There was hardly anybody there and on TV. I saw a gentleman who waited seven hours in line so this isn't an administrative issue. It's a Republican strategy to suppress the vote and not the vote. They're not colorblind here to they want to suppress black votes in particular. I understand legislation and the litigation. But what about activation? What can you do to rally the troops on this? So we've done two things fair fight. Action is a C. Four and we do use a triple strategy of litigation legislation and advocacy. We have fair fight you which is our college based program fourteen colleges we have democracy warriors. These are super volunteers who we deployed to State Elections Board meetings and to County Board meetings. So they understand. When polling places are being shut down they know how to fight back about the budget We have our democracy protection works. Which is our national evaluation of how litter suppression exists in every state and then separate. We have fair fight. Twenty twenty which is part of our fair fights hack work and that's actually embedded in the Democratic Party state parties across the country. Because we agree this is a Republican strategy because they have two options with the changing democracy of America they can either adjust their messaging and their politics or they can block people from being hurt because they've decided they better solution to dismantle democracy than simply adapt to the changing world. We live our responses that we have helped create in eighteen states but a protection teams teams. That are working now to understand. The pressure looks like in each state and then to work in concert with the State Party and with good actors in that state to do the work so folks want to be a part of this they go to fair fight when twenty dot com. They can sign up with us. And we can leverage them and engage them One of the examples. Is that here in Georgia? In December they attempted to purge three hundred and nine thousand Georgians. We got a group of together including some of the presidential candidates and and people from around the country who called more than one hundred thousand Georgians many who possibly had moved but thousands of whom should not have been taken off the rolls. We got forty five hundred people to flag and get back on the rolls and we were also able to force the secretary of State to admit that he had illegally attempted to purge twenty two thousand people across the country. They're going to be moments that needing folks to show up to protest the closure of a polling place which is part of what happened in Texas or helping folks get ID's because I d laws are designed and let's be clear. These are restrictive voter. Id Laws we've always had voter ID but these are more restrictive and we need help. Making sure people have access to the right. I D there's GonNa be a moment where we ask you to volunteer. They poll watcher or a poll worker. We need people inside and around those precincts hoping flag. What's going wrong because we know the Republican Party the RMC for the first time in thirty five years or have the legal authority to spend hard and soft dollars essentially intimidating voters of consent decree. They've been under. Nineteen eighty-one was listed in twenty seventeen. And for the first time since that time they can engage in what they call ballot security and what that means is voter intimidation directly targeted communities of color. Yeah I remember the the first congressional campaign I did was in Southside Virginia and it was nineteen eighty two so they were under the consent agreement and they were armed off duty cops at all in all the black precincts With signs and call this number of UC voter fraud. So I called the number and it was the RNC. And that's it hasn't changed is I think it's gotten more sophisticated. One of the more insidious Initiatives from the Republicans is the misinformation that they're putting out there on the census. What can we do to combat than wise? It's important in addition to launching fair fight after the two thousand eighteen election. I launched fair count-. We know that. The census has two key responsibilities and our lives. One is the allocation of one point five trillion dollars every single year. For almost every federally funded social program whether we're talking about snap benefits or hospital. Investment Medicare and Medicaid transportation small business investment. You think of it it's funded by the census. The communities that are not counted in the census do not receive their dollars and because a number of those programs are designed to specifically respond to the needs of communities of color if communities of color undercounted. Those dollars. Don't just disappear. They get reallocated. Other communities the other pieces that reapportionment apportionments the allocation of congressional leadership across the country as well as redistricting. The drawing of wine for political districts happens based on the twenty twenty cents. If people are not counted they will not count and because of the Supreme Court in Twenty nineteen partisan gerrymandering as legitimate action. The only federally prohibited forms. Gerrymandering is racial gerrymandering. They can't pack or otherwise obscured the ability of communities of color to work together to elect their chosen leaders. But if they don't get counted in the census then when those lines are drawn they can simply ignore their existence. That happened endorsed happened across the country. And so what we want to do to count is ensured that we have an accurate count particularly hard accounting unity. It is about your power and is about your money and those are two things that unfortunately on the democratic side we tend to ignore until election day or until Census Day but the Republicans actually had deep research done on how they could rig the census Hamas wholesaler. His analysis and research is used to create the citizenship question that almost pass muster except that his daughter found the information and got into common cause and we were able to use it through the coalition of groups that were fighting citizenship question. We got that information to the Supreme Court but what they were doing then they will continue to try to do which is the race communities of color from the narrative of America. They know that this is the fastest growing demographic and they know they cannot win elections if actual political power is allocated appropriately in our country. All right and finally Lee Abrams. We wanted to talk about the the current presidential race for a moment and while the race for the Democratic presidential nomination is hotly contested between Progressives and moderates one thing that everyone seems to be talking about and even agreeing on. Is that Stacey? Abrams should be vice. Presidential nominee and while most politicians in positions like that adopt of Faux humility. You've made it clear that you are interested in the job. So why did you decide to forego the usual pretense in the so called veepstakes? Well I I think two things one is that it does a disservice to women to women of color people of color to kids with aspirations to see someone who is not normally included in a conversation. Essentially say oh. Don't look at me because in that moment. What I'm saying is I'm not worthy of this folk. Humility is a communicated so humility is communicated as interest or as inability and my obligation given the unique position. I hold is to absolutely declare my capacity for that job and my willingness to serve but secondly I believe I could be a good vice of it. I have a strong background in management and legislative experience. I have foreign policy experience. I've spent twenty five years in self study and travel and I would be an exceptional partner. I good at getting folks engaged. I'm good at explaining things and I think I cut across some of the differences that we often see between progressive and moderate wings of our Party. I'm a progressive in the south. Which means I've had to learn how to speak progressive moderate conservatives I and multi lingual in the values of our party but most of all I am to my core Democrat who believes that progress will only be made if we engage every voter if we invest early if we do the work of reaching young voters and voters of color and do so without alienating or isolating ourselves from White voters and twenty eighteen. I proved it could be done. I received more votes than any Democrat in Georgia. History including the highest share white voters since Bill Clinton but also tripling Latino Asian Pacific Islander turnout increasing youth participation one hundred and thirty nine percent and increasing black participation by forty percent. I including myself in the conversation because I would be honored to throw. We've got about minute or a minute and a half left putting aside You know who the VP is. How FRUSTRATING IS IT With Elizabeth Warren? Getting out of the race. That women don't seem to have made the progress that I think we all expected. I go back to Nineteen eighty-four with Gerry. Ferraro and I think there was an expectation that there'd be a woman president soon. How can we fix that? One of the reasons I think so highly of the foreign. She didn't run despite being a woman and she didn't run because she was a woman. She ran out of woman's meaning that she acknowledged present. Something and signal pumping but it was also a challenge and she never shirks from that talent. Much like Hillary Clinton women have to continue to fight because there is an intention of us not succeeded. That's one of the reasons I I reject so humility. I think we're often taught that it's humility but what we're being asked to do a selfish statement. I mean you are self effacing you a race yourself in the narrative and you give others permission not to see. I think that what she signaled what Comma Harris Signals Pearson Gillibrand. Amy Clovis Tulsi Gabbard. Every woman who ran what they signal is the responsibility. We have as a as a nation to fully embrace who we are and that is a nation. That's more than half women and we deserve to be charged leader Abrahams. We look forward to watching your continued participation in this discussion In the coming weeks and months and we are grateful for your time today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having been fun. Thank you all right Joe. I know your busy and don't have time to read or in some cases. Reread all the books. You'd like and you just discovered an incredible new APP and it's called blankets yet. Katie blankets as quickly becoming one of the most important APPs on my phone because his real unique and it works on your phone. Your tablet or your web browser blinking takes need to know information the key takeaways from thousands of nonfiction books and condenses them down into just fifteen minutes that you can read or listen to if you read a lot but still. Don't get to have time to get everything you want. Lincoln says made for you. You'll get the key points of a book in just minutes. So with its audio feature. Blankets makes it easy to finish a book during your commute or on your lunch? Break or while you're exercising and twelve million. People are using blankets right now and it has a massive and growing library from politics to current events to history books and even topics like business and health blinking has the latest titles from bestsellers lists as well as the classic nonfiction titles. You always meant to read but never had time to or where supposed to read in high school. I know you just started using it Joe. But you've had a great experience so far. It sounds like yeah. I was writing a column for CNN. And I was talking about a book. I had read several years ago and I frankly didn't have time to read it so I just went to blankets in fifteen minutes. Had all the key takeaways. So from Michelle Obama's becoming to Russian roulette by Michael isikoff David Corn to Rick. Wilson's everything trump touches dies with blankets. You get unlimited access to read or listen to a massive library of condense nonfiction books all the books you want an all for one low price and right now for a limited time blankets as a special offer just for our audience go to blink dot com slash words matter. Try It free for seven days and save twenty five percent off your new subscription. That's blinking. I spelled B. L. I. N. K. I S. T. Blinking DOT com slash words matter to start your free seven-day trial and you'll also get twenty five percent off. But only when you sign up at blinking dot com slash words matter all right Joe so you had a southern candidate for the presidency but this is a whole different Vail. Hey as we may say in the south. I thought her Her point was interesting that she made about being a political progressive in the south she had to learn to speak progressive. But also moderate also conservative to get anywhere in Georgia politics which as a participant in Georgia politics. Anyone on both sides have to kind of target those audiences but what did you make of what she had to say? We have great people on here every week but Stacey Abrams was if not the most impressive person we've had one of the most I think she captures the shoes with a very sophisticated understanding but with a motivating narrative. And I think that she is going to get a very very long. Look if Joe Biden's nominated I've lessened side into what Bernie Sanders will be looking for. And I think the real field for Biden will be fairly small. I think it will be a woman. I think it will be a woman of color and one of the things about Stacey. Abrams is America. Hasn't seen that much of her. But I think you'd be listening to this. You know that the more they see the more they're gonNA like her. And speaking of Bernie and Biden. A lot has happened since we last spoke. The field is now narrowed down to two going into Michigan. Any predictions there from South Carolina to Super Tuesday. More happened in short time that I've ever seen in a presidential. I wanted to ask you that because it seemed very quick to me but my institutional knowledge is shorter. No I mean we. We're talking about a candidate who it at best come in third place in previous contests winning across the board by more than he was supposed to win and candidates getting out knowing people to judge and Clova chart got out the day before. Super Tuesday didn't even go to the polls to get more data so the media tends to make everything seem extraordinary like everything is breaking news but this was extraordinary. I think this week's primaries are very important particularly Michigan. Sanders signalled his intentions by canceling a Friday rally in Mississippi conceding. The South to Joe Biden Michigan State. He won last time by a very narrow margin over Hillary Clinton. He has to win Michigan. He has to make the case that outside the south his wing of the party is strong enough to take him to Milwaukee and the nomination if he loses in Michigan. It's very hard for people to believe that narrative and one of the things I think we can take away from the earthquake of South Carolina to Super Tuesday is Democrats are looking for getting on with it they want someone that will beat trump. I believe that if Sanders Loses Michigan Democrats will write them off He'll get his twenty-five thirty percent of hardcore supporters. But I think Democrats are itching for this to turn trump and away from inter-party squabbling. So I think Wednesday morning. We're going to have a much better sense of where this races and while all of this is going on we are dealing with a national and potentially global crisis dealing with corona virus putting aside the fact that both Barney and Biden are well into their seventies and hitting a campaign trail shaking hands and kissing babies and visiting multiple populations a day that have potentially been affected by this at the same time. The White House is trying to Tamp down fears say things like we've got it handled. We've kept it limited. The mortality rates are extremely low. Maybe even lower than what's being reported but there's so much left that's unknown and we're starting to get inklings of that and reports of that based on the testing and the test kits available. But what do you make of how this is getting handled? Well I think there's there's a couple levels to this one is. We talked a little bit last week. About how the president has failed leadership test. His job is to make sure that those with the information deliver reliable accurate information to the public so that they can make reasonable judgments. What you don't want is sort of mixed messages and and chaotic messages. But it's clear. The president has put his reelection and his political fortunes ahead of the public health. He has done everything he could to downplay this on Thursday of last week. He told Fox News that he'd beaten it and it was over. We know it's not over. We know they have beaten it. And from a communications point of view it's disastrous to say you've solved the problem and the problem is apparent to anyone who turns on television or opens the newspaper and I think the most the the worst and most damaging thing of that is when the scientists who worked for the government go out and say in a straightforward way. We don't have this contained. We are worried about this. We don't have the test kits available to test people. And then the president and his economic advisor. And his pollster. Go and tell the press that yes we do have a contained so if you are an average American you think I would imagine a lot of people jump to the conclusion of well if if the President says is contained and the scientists say. It's not will boy. This must be really bad. And even the scientists are being are being held on a short leash and that's created not widespread pack but a lot of people doing a lot of things that they probably don't need to do at this point. Finally the most where you can actually see it on a day-to-day basis are the financial markets on the stock market. The president has made a huge deal. About how much everyone has gained on the stock market? That's been wiped out and it's been wiped out for two reasons one is the virus is having a direct impact on the economy and stock market is never looking at what's happening today or what happened yesterday. Always looking ahead and it's always looking to what they predict will happen and so the fundamentals are changing. Despite with Larry cudlow says every day they are changing. All you have to do is go to a mall. Go to win airport and see how easy to get through the TSA WINE. People have changed their habits their travel habits. They're going out to large events and that will have an impact on the economy but the second thing which is within the control of the administration is the markets can handle can price in the change in economic fundamentals. What really causes volatility is when there's uncertainty and they can't figure out where the floors and this is where The particularly the president but also some of his aides have spooked the markets. They see the president is saying everything's Okay and then scientists saying everything's not in there like we don't know and when they don't know their instinct is to sell rather than to buy and that has a psychological effect on people but it also have a direct impact on the president's reelection prospects we we when we talked to Doug Sosnik The couple of weeks ago and he when he was our guest he talked about the by the end of the second quarter people's minds were baked on whether the president was good for the economy or bad for them for the economy. And so we're coming up to July first. The end of the second quarter is not that far away and now we have incredible economic uncertainty. And it's fair to say that Donald trump is an unpopular president but his core supporters at about forty percent. We'll always stay with them. That theory will be tested if we go into a recession if the stock market tumbles even further if this vicious cycle turns on itself and starts really impacting businesses around the country. And without that it's very hard to see Trumping reelected so the bottom line is there is a reason. trump is using bad information and misdirection. Because it's in his interest. It's a very very risky strategy. It's George Bush mission accomplished. He told the country we had this done. And it's not done and it's an issue a lot of political back and forth. The public doesn't care about they don't pay attention to it doesn't move the one way or the other just moves sort of the twitter verse. You can't have a conversation any place in this country with anyone whether they're a stranger or a friend or a family that doesn't start with corona virus you just can't that moves voters you know it's the old adage of Chicago. Mayor Jane Byrne lost the Mayor Oh action because it snowed and she couldn't get the snow off the street fast enough and she went from being a head in the in the Democratic primary to losing. This is something that impacts everyone. Everyone's thinking about everyone's talking about real anxiety and the leadership that they should be getting from the White House. They're not it's not going away. I suspect we'll be talking about this next week and the week after that and the week after that. Yeah I would count myself included with those people who every conversation they have revolves around at least in the beginning corona virus and so much changes each day that by the next time we talk. I'm sure it will be an entirely different storyline but Thanks TO OUR LISTENERS. For joining us this week until then exciting. Thank you for listening to words matter please. Rate and review words matter on Apple. Podcasts and other podcasts providers.

Georgia Stacey Abrams president Supreme Court Katie Barlow Abrahams America Texas Joe Lockhart Joe Biden Hillary Clinton New York Times Bernie Sanders Joe Justice White House
148B-Monkey King: Leaps and Bounds

Myths and Legends

38:38 min | 1 year ago

148B-Monkey King: Leaps and Bounds

"This week's episode is brought to you by wolverine lost trail marvel just released season two of their scripted podcast wolverine lost trail free the first season was awesome i massive wolverine fans i can't wait to check out the season in the season picks up where season one left off wolverine is headed to new orleans in search of redemption and he falls a trio of clues through the by you he encounters biker gangs amusing called gambit in a world full of dark wonders the podcast starts richard armitage is wolverine he listen the wolverine lost show for free on apple podcasts stitcher or your favorite podcast app to check it out on the trail in the shadows this week myths and legends wrapping up part one of the monkey came from chinese folklore lauren how being able to took a mack truck behind your ear and solve most problems and how crashing a party stealing all day or d'oeuvres and taking a line that might just get you and your friends immortality than on the courage the week it's an angry surly unicorn with along harry horn this is the margins episode one forty be leaps and bounds this is the podcast real stories from mythology and folklore some are incredibly popular stories you thinking but with spicing origins other the stories that might be new to you but are definitely worth a listen previously on the show the monkey king central kong was born from iraq in the flower fruit mountain in quickly rose up to be the king monkey healing martial arts transformations any elixir mortality memorial stage and came back to make alliances with the dragons unicorns and everything else surrounding this mountain he course the dragon king and the giving in the monkey king equivalent of doors hammer a golden staff that could change size and weight and that only he could lift the for dragging kings of the seat had a problem with this though and they had even more of a problem when the monkey king beat their teeth from their heads things were going off in the mckee king until the godly underworld decided he was getting too powerful and sent their generals to bring him in stand down handsome monkeying commanded confused his generals held up their paws hope rippling through the ranks beasely set a forty forty thousand monkey soldier domino's the troops obeyed the clearly up in arms wasn't their leader immortal and if so why was he now being captured in drag behind agents of the gods of that he would handle it some some congress shirt the mall using control and they must all stand down right now with a few years time a few thousand weapons and one at the montage of trained scenarios the monkey come in with his group of monkeys he's into the greatest fighting force the world had ever seen they would do anything for him even let it be captured if he commanded the fighters stepped aside watching helplessly is the enemy paraded they're bound leader through the city across see iron bridge and through the waterfall on his way sun will come tried to make small talk with the generals of death or whatever their titles where they were also grim and self series that is attempts fell flat they sailed and marched in sailed in marched his captors not really caring that some lucon could make this whole trip in fifteen minutes including a ten minute bathroom break in seriously would they be stopping the bathroom anytime soon they roll their eyes and dragged him working along end soon they arrived outside side the land of darkness it was then that some kong stop walking in held up his hands hold up would they might not notice something forum his hands flicks something in the direction of to the generals squinched at the tiny object is that it some golden eagle banks some kong said before muttering something under his breath in the blink of an eye metrical staff was no longer a small needle practically nothing an actual staff the size in wait a mack truck both generals were immediately crushed some ucon did a backflip as he did yuliana next with staff which is already shrinking to a manageable size he snatched it up and turn it face each other to generals in their armies it wasn't until the generals there armies and many others who fled from the city were quote turn to pace by the handsome lucky king and his staff that finally voices cold front end the conflict a parlay the surrounding army parted allowing ten humans through some kong lowered his staff they were the ten kings of the underworld emperors of darkness is they call themselves in what will be an excellent name for a heavy metal band among them were quote the king avenging ministers king yama king of equal ranks king of city markets king of complete change in king of the turning we'll monkey king didn't now but instead approach them as equals he began since they were kings they must be smart and since they were smart they must know what they were doing was illegal he had acquired the doubt in obtained immortality this with outside their jurisdiction kinks out up their hands and told him one slow you're rolling stop trainer people in paste over misunderstanding into a lot of people have the same name there is obviously a mix up wait you're having been waiting me some conquered hands on hips no no no how many other son will come along the handsome monkey kings are there i mean come on this wasn't a mix up this is a conspiracy to track them in the land of the dead said he motioned aggressively he wanted to see those record's defiance let their bluff be called leader rather than right now these numbers of darkness agreed he could see the record's but if some com wasn't air you will be staying with them indian the record's of birth and death be only thing governing the lifespan of every moral thing on earth really could've been organized it took him no less than a few hours to locate son will kong's file but at last they did and this is from the original he was sola number thirteen fifty had been born stone monkey the rec room with e m o m u files was a small one so only the monkey king in the recordkeeping were in there out there it is the monkey games have been born stone monkey oh three hundred forty two years that's how old i am cool hey is this the brush used right on all these things the recordkeeping nodded he he should really go get these numbers before the monkey king touch anything here it's making didn't mind the worker keep it was just gonna ask him to step out in the hall and oh hey why was he playing the needle from behind his ear cut to just outside the rickard room and the recor keeper flying through the air before slamming clumsily against the wall the hallway instantly the door slams shut of course it didn't take long for the emperor's of darkness to get the room open but when they did the damage was already done some come standing there within impish grin embers of darkness fluted they're record's and looked up shaking with rage in the moments that some congo been alone with the record's he'd taken a brush to all the monkeys he could remember they now had no recreate a birth or death in the land of darkness they were ageless says the mountains and they oceans he had done what he set out to do the numbers of darkness flooded into the room sneering at the monkey king and then they touched his forehead some lucon the monkey king gas the wake the warm air every afternoon underneath the tree where he had been napping put him to sleep he set up the dream of the land of the dead dampers of darkness using his staff as pestle pasty emperor servants was already quickly fading like a fog in the morning sun he sprung up and ready to his generals who told the calm down he just taking the mid afternoon wind that why was he so excited so i'm sure that this wasn't just any normal wind that no this was one where they came out immortal he explained it to be astonishment of all who listen they sent emissaries to be animal kings in the area aunt after that they all had a massive party boom boom boom boom boom boom in remained in heaven however there was a much different scene there was no party a celebration as this title goes the great benevolent stage of heaven the flex steel jade emperor of the most venerable devon who's holding court and the treasure hall of divine missed in the cloud palace of the golden arches is which might be the most upscale mcdonald's ever was having a bad day in having a bad day wasn't easy to do when you were in attornal celeste deliver you see the foresee dragging kings and stop by earlier now the dragon king the one last episode where the monkey king forty thousand buddies the plate last with the staff well he was here and he had a lot of complaints now the day deborah was like a god who is basically the supreme god of the chinese mythological pantheon he's not really associated with creation but he still sits at the top governing over justice immorality anyway using mortal but he still had protectors and armor and guards in you gave him the golden staff jeff the jade emperor demanded already knowing me answer the dragon king knotted the monkey king at forty thousand angry monkeys outside of gate yeah and now he's forty thousand angry monkeys and then eight ton metric staff great work at immortality they heard from the back the crowd parted as the ten emperors of darkness step forward yeah when they heard about the dragon king some luke combs growing power they tried nip it in the bud and bring him in getting caught up in years of paperwork will be stuck in underworld forever but he already knew he was immoral of course and also when their guys picked him up they didn't think the needle behind his ear was a weapon thinks so that by the way the emperor's of darkness set of the dragon king used at eight ten staff between their best fighters into a paste what the consistency of good pesto angie got away the jaden harassed and inside as the embers of darkness waited why did he get the feeling there was gonna be in an to the statement dampers of darkness fitted with their hats and looked at the ground they they left him alone with e m record's he wiped out his own name unlike a lot of monkeys from the books he is now forever be on the jurisdiction of the gods of death alongside a considerable number of newly immortal monkeys they were still going through the rutgers to assess the damage but it was consider it how is he so fast the gene ember demanded one of the dragon kingsley ocean raised a call a view of his teeth dropping to the floor as he opened his mouth you share that the monkey king could change is form a lot in their fight alone you must've taken ten different forms changing his skin to a heart ogre stone jumping into their with the speed of the win starting to the water like a dolphin guys seriously what is going on he's a monkey how did he become an immoral being completely beyond the reach of death wifi ability to fight for dragging god's at once in command and army of forty thousand at least partially immortal monkeys you simple godson embers not adorn another yeah that was a pretty solid assessment of the situation okay well now we really need to bring this guy in neighbor said he sat back and pinch the bridge of his nose you symbol beans piped up and how should they plan on doing that given all this stuff the gene emperor just said the g eight emperor looked up seriously this is why he was in charge and we're gonna bring him in would force they were gonna recruit him bring into the fold monkey earned his place in some come down on his new socialist you'll position on the one thousand divine horses before he didn't know what he expected when he'd been granted the heavenly position but he knew it certainly was not this so i am not a divine ageless semper didn't know if you knew that about me or not but if you're training in a newly immortal hotshot stop causing trouble by bribing him maybe the bony throw him shouldn't be covered in divine the newark official position translated roughly was banned horseplay because in chinese mythology monkeys are said to ward off sickness isn't horses it was quite literally a match made in heaven and it can't be said that some kong didn't try to make it work within the first two weeks you went through the list inspected the horses talked couns mugging supplies because i guess you can't be divinely supreme jade emperor in charge of justice and reality and still have to run stuff by accounting and whenever people took the horses is out they found the fed happy in rested single called excelled at horsemanship end one day news that the celestial banquet yes the guy sitting next to him horse manager was it a great position or the greatest position the guy didn't understand so some ucon elaborated what ministerial great wisey you know what rank oh that was easy game to apply it didn't have one some little kong sat back and smiled old excellent so it was like how when people were talking about the worth of something super great they would say priceless instead put a number on it the guy took another bite sure he hadn't spent a ton of time on earth but if priceless in worthless where synonymous then yeah his position was priceless the monkey king new the he was the lowest of the low amongst less deals right at the horses became fat that's a beating if they were to skinny that's a beating if they were hurt ooh you better believe that's a beating as a realization sunken some com returned to his desk seeding he was a king he left the flower fruit mountain for this and they made him what stable boy now still might have thought the the monkey should be grateful he had been born a monkey and now we had a role in heaven you is also ageless take the win some might say but code arrogance or a healthy dose of self respect some cone new the he deserved better he kicked his desk sending it splintering against the wall across the room he sucked up his staff from his hair raid give any celestial guardian who tried to stand in his way the same treatment as his desk and left straight out the gate of heaven you went turning into a cloud he flew through the flower fruit mountain he'd been gone for a couple of weeks but he had a plan and then you seldom the monkeys he's he had made immortal hadn't changed but others pronounce considerably older it was then you learn that he hadn't been gone fifteen days but fifteen years each day in heaven with the year honors monkeys generals were glad he was back though because well the demons the monkey king rolled his eyes and his staff extended all right where were they oh and when someone bring him up in a bucket of water this time the demon bits dried they were in hospital the get out of the grout but the monkey general stop there king no per once the demons were attacking they like all these other creatures only island it comes about down the monkey speaking in ballet did sun will come took it in stride but seen as they were actual demons remained a little wary that you know they lie and try to destroy everything after all that was pretty much their whole thing they said they were so impressed that some little kong successfully completed his mission in heaven what did he done well with his rank reluctantly some kong shared that it was banned horseplay he was in charge of the horses oh without a great position or the greatest position the demons ask their new king the monkey kings face lit up and he pointed i know that's what i thought but get this it was the worst position mission like bottom of the bottom no rank whatsoever the teams left what the hits a monkey king machine by heaven that was wow just wow in their mind and this is just them talking some some will conquer just march right up there and demand the rank of great stage equal the heaven what would anyone do not seen that working back around to leading the monkeys alliances and tour with heaven might actually be the demonic endgame the monkey king walked right into it you know what yeah he saw their power lack of their of he turned more than a few slow steel guardians into greasy stains on the walls on his way out and with his kingdom of immortal monkeys ally dragons unicorns phoenix is an demons they would be unstoppable he turned to his monkeys they wanna get sewing because he wants a new banners first coming war ones that red sun will come along the great stage equal heaven he smiled you like the sound that warm and a and a mom will come back the everyone just making really great decisions but that will be right after this this week's episode is brought to you by better help if there's something interfering with you're happiness preventing you from achieving your goals better help online counseling can help better help offers licensed professional counselors who specialize in issues such as depression anxiety relationships trauma anger family conflicts lgbt matters grief self esteem and more connect with their professional counselor in a safe and private online environment an help your own time at your own pace anything shares confidential and it's so convenient you can schedule secure video end phone sessions as most chat or text therapists if if for some reason you're not happy with a counselor you could request a new one at anytime for no additional charge best of all it's a truly affordable option myths and legends listeners get ten percent off your first month with the discount code legends so why not get started today go to better help dot com slash legends then simply fill out a questionnaire and help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you'll love that's better help dot com slash legends all right now the show the mighty spirit god the general sense retrieve symbol kong indirect impact happened for banning post returned a habit but only barely he had relish the charge of bringing the monkey back the answer first crimes i mean the guy's name is mighty spirit god he didn't have much to worry about right except that when he found the monkey kings army of dragons phoenix is lizards monkeys insects and everything else defending some ucon waterfall cave home he'd been forced to demand the monkey king show himself after the mighty spirit guides axe broke any animals tore into his army the monkey king let him retreat saying that he was letting me in appropriately named mighty spirit guide lives in order to send the message what some cones monkeys had embroider don't these banners equal of heaven that was what it would take the stop young coming in war well the gene ever got the message but he didn't get the message you send more champions in each one came back humbled one after another the monkey king transform into a creature with three heads in six arms a weapon in each hand for the second fight and the third fight didn't happen the general decided that after all the humiliations he wouldn't fight he wants to talk with jay number when he armies of heaven descended on the flower fruit mountain for the third time it was with the decree they were to address the great sage equal of heaven himself symbol congress spirited away to his new post one of the actual right this time do right into his new task ask guarding the garden immortal peaches being essentially a god the monkey king sat back and contentment he had done it and she lives happily ever after if only cut you a few months later and we arrive on a new seat sun will come have been sucked into a fiery crucible and burned alive without chemical fire for forty nine days basically the gods kept making the same mistake they underestimated symbol kong but they also disrespected him oh he's a climber hitter and not just immortality but a place in the heavens his title was great sage equal the heaven after all the that was only after he forced it out of the most powerful beans in the universe still those in charge no respect his mobility or is intelligence they only slum as a monkey and they would only ever see him as a monkey they made this perfectly clear to cause even though who is giving a title put in charge of the peach gardening immortality in granted controls mitch unnamed quote peace and quiet you would never be one of them it'll start to win the maidens arrived simpson the queen of in herself together peaches for the festival memorial peaches it was then that some kong learned two things one no he was not invited but to yes they would actually needs his super backflip going by devas this buddies that foes gods goddesses really everyone who is anyone the monkey king glared at them and then froze the meetings in place with his magic and now now son who congress upset soaps soaps at the gate crush the party in the form of a guy who's invitation was lost in the mail but he proceeds to get drunk on the good wine and it's just sneak out with a pocket full of orders when people start getting suspicious he chewed up his chest here again and may bugs that when they landed on the faces of all the beans filtering into the party but then asleep with a single byte now all of this might have been forgivable no one knew that it was some kong though i imagine pretty much everyone suspected back to them right player not only because at home reeling from the line munching on snacks son will kong realized that he wasn't at home at all but he had stumbled in this drunkenness into the palace with arms and pockets full of stolen and party food looking around and sifting through stolen food some kong realize but he was in trouble because in his drunken stupor you're broke into the kitchen any drink the jade emperors immortality elixir the when they do you use for i guess the top of immortality ever she millennia in a flash the monkey king turned himself in visible snuck out of the heaven gate and somersault down to the flower fruit mountain he would wait it out until the heat died down and also surround himself with his violent monkey army in his allies should the heat not die down well of course it didn't for some reason the gene eber was furious that the monkey had lied to his advisors threatened in prison the queen servants got drunk at a party he wasn't invited bite at two in the first place had eaten immortal peaches and yeah we didn't mention that you would absolutely snacking on immortal peaches he was supposed to guard and drink emperors elixir well the sauce deal army besieged the flower fruit mountain and this time they were messing around this round of the mountain so tightly that not even water could escape quickly eighteen sets of cosmic nets were spread out above and below the entire region still the monkey king held out proving the challenge for thousand warriors from heaven at last it seemed like he had met his match his name would be immoral master a massive deeming king and the nephew of the g timber himself who came in challenge some will come to contest of transformations mid battle monkeying deeming king each change themselves and beans a hundred thousand feet tall and began fighting it out like king kong godzilla all the while their respective army swarming the cave the flower fruit mountain one after another let's deal army captured as many of the monkey monsters is it good distracted some come shrunk helps people and that's been immoral master literally game be upperhand captured the monkey king immediately heaven answer surfer his numerous crimes the problem with executing the moral however with that well they were immortal they tied some will come to a monstrous doing pillar in slashing the tires cut him with an axe stabbed him with the spear an accident with a sword but nothing happened monkey shrugged he was a mortal several times over at this point better luck next time and that's how we ended up in a fiery crucible it was the year of eight try grabs where he was smelter but a high and low heat at the separate him from elixir see had taken the ones that have made his body you like a diamond it of course didn't take he hit away from the flame in the crucible waiting for the opportunity the spring forced to make a break for it but as he did the smoke blew into his eyes turning the red and giving him a weakness he would leave with the rest of his days in one less search hungry angry in tired monkey fought his way through burst from the crucible and read from the house now the gina brad been alerted the monkey and you knew we could bargain with them kill him a reason within their plans at all fail because they thought they were better than him more powerful than him apparently they weren't they were treating him like an annoyance and they should have been treated him like a rogue god the jane byrne not a trump self as this realization cold rising from the throne damper announced that it was time to take this monkey king seriously it was time to call on the buddha himself self a monkey king surrounded by hundreds of beating celestial beings staff back behind his ear he looked on the humble simply dressed man who stood before him the monkey stormed in full of bluster he didn't want just any place in heaven you wanted me place in heaven he had the throne of the jade ember himself if it wasn't given to him all the destruction here brought so far would be nothing to the cassie will continue to rain down amber until the palace was his the buddha laughed this monkey with little more than a beast who obtained some level of enlightenment the gina brad been studying religions since birth at this maceachin smiled fine you just continue the war you raise the staff called the buddhist bluff the buddha nodded and step forward well played okay here's the deal some hunk put away staff is the buddha had a test for him jump over his palm the staff shrunken the monkey kings hand that's what jump jump over his palm the buddha nodded exactly you hold on hand the monkey brag but he could jumped one hundred and eight thousand miles right well then it shouldn't be that difficult chuckled the buddha prove it jump over my palm and the buddha would take the jade emperor with him into the west and the monkey king would have dominion over this whole world the monkey tried to restrain his excitement it was too simple too easy he smelled a trick but it was still worth a shot he crouched shift in summer assaulted in an instant he was thousands of feet above the year's end a few moments later he was over a hundred thousand miles away he slammed into the years and rose he'd never tried flexing his powers their fullest extent before and he had no idea where he was he stood on the mountain tall narrow rock jamming up from the miss high into the sky they seem to be holding up the sky there were five pillars the monkey looked still around well you pass the test one jumping he will be home but who believe him he put the chest hair and put it into his mouth spitting it out it became a brush and he painted on one of the pillars essentially the great sage equal the heaven was here then be classy monkey that he was he peed on the pillars when he finished he backflip back in the heavens into the buddha sun will come out on his palm grasping beer slough deal palace please the buddha glared should be hearing from his hand the monkey king was confused wait why did the buddha pee on his own hand the boot away from forward what did his middle finger say some calling inspected the great sage equal the heaven was here his eyes wide and this magic it wasn't impossible he fruit his brow at the buddha crouched to get as far away as possible but the buddha turned his hand over and the monkey king flew off the world healing hard and faraway land and the missed a five more pillars this time he knew what they were pillars became five mountains and the monkey king shook his head this wasn't happening he learned everything you needed to he had earned his place in despite them throwing up roadblocks every step of the way he he had risen it wasn't fair he crashed somersault but it was too late the mountains closed over him everything went dark for the first time in the past year since the monkey king it found his way up the heaven oh it's quiet and all remain quite it is the slush steel celebrated their victory over the monkey monster as they called him the buddha returned to the west it remained quiet as the threat the monkey presented faded into memory trees and mosque grew in the mountains that contain him the days groti years years and decades and decades and centuries the monkey king some kong came a forgotten relic of an ancient time a myth the legend of be the group behind a station in one more then he apparently had any right to do there you would remain river five hundred years until he was needed until amongst needed a protector someone strong enough taking was someone who needed a chance to tell her what he had done that we will absolutely get back to the story the mike king he doesn't know it yet but he's become part of a larger universe it'll be one of the four guardians who will company the monk on this journey to the west journey we will get much further into at a later date i don't really late getting suppose it means behind these stories but the monkey came to me seems like a cautionary retail about social mobility easy obvious protagonist despite his crude and disrespectful behavior and he seems to always wanna push past the station in life works out for him until it doesn't make it absolutely see the areas where he overplayed his hand that being said the continual lack of respect on behalf of the slush deals free up and comer paired with their borderline pathological inability to give him what he would do makes it easy to see why some common will be so frustrated and how woodley to feedback loop them having less respect them and becoming more entrenched leading to of course the slowest you'll see in the monkey assam rube east and becoming more entrenched in their position will see how everyone is feeling when some ucon has about five hundred years the cool off next week were going to japan and it's the story of mantaro the boy who came from a peach and will see how parenting is never easy but it is so much more difficult you're kids are hearing the call to venture in going the fight of fortress full of heavily armed cannibal demons i wanna say thanks to be forrester author towns of the baskerville two to one three shell two three six six six one here in gucci alex three robyn locus guy chick nicolas allen definitely not olympian good it'd be very mad if you listen to this podcast will miss boy in bumble being one oh one of the reviews and apple podcasts thank you so much for leaving a review and if you like leave a review on apple podcast is still the best place you could find the show the apple dot mc podcast cast dot com there is also a membership thing on the site for less than the price of a knapsack sleep would cost would put over your head so you could nap anywhere okay even get extra episodes source back e books and ad free version is the show that are the first step in every movie kidnapping never checkout support mc podcast dot com for membership and the creature this week is lindsay from the folklore of africa the museum is unicorn and i'm not sure if we've mentioned this on the podcast but unicorns far from there modern incarnations all rainbow and sparkles were actually pretty aggressive and ruthless they had those horns and they used them in the news who is brown and a little larger than his ebro and he was absolutely ready to attack the threat presented itself or even if a threat doesn't presented itself unlike many folklore unicorns horn doesn't have the ability detect poison purifier he'll but it does have another somewhat more interesting power is allah corn actual name funny unicorn horn ranges from two feet long and covered in hair to amir ten inches also unlike many modern depictions of unicorns this horner's retractable in a way no not in a cool wolverine way but in a way that would make even freud blush and apparently deflates insurance like a blue get out of the way only deterrent to unicorn horn at the right time yeah sticking with the awkward theme the female mizzou do not have horns and obviously at that point i don't know quite what distinguishes them from regular horse this creatures been around a long time with you at least depictions appearing in cave paintings a potential explanation for this is that is that is just a simple antelope drawn in profile or that it was it to warn animal that just got injured and apparently became legendary and not a weird anger unicorn with the curly harry horn that's a bittersweet legends is by jason in crystal wiser are theme songs by the band broke free and the creature of the week music is by steve combs thrilling see even more music in the show notes and i wanna say thanks again the better help for sponsoring this week whatever struggles you're facing from depression anxiety trauma angry at her help can connect you with a professional counselor in a safe and private online environment it's so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well chat and text with therapists add anything you share is completely

new orleans richard armitage apple five hundred years three hundred forty two years hundred thousand feet fifteen minutes forty nine days fifteen years ten percent ten inches ten minute eight ton two weeks two feet one day
The American Machine: Police Torture to Drone Assassinations

Intercepted with Jeremy Scahill

1:16:09 hr | 1 year ago

The American Machine: Police Torture to Drone Assassinations

"We're here today to announce charges in the largest college admission scam ever prosecuted by the department of Justice. On the campus of one of America's leading universities understand things. I comprehend very well. The most gifted mind to ever enter its classrooms better than I think almost anybody. Okay. This is poised genius baron. I need someone who can get through to them. So I mean, I was born with a certain eighth Elec. That is good for this. You know, I have very high aptitude from Blake a smart person. Some people can never believe in themselves until someone believes in there. You wouldn't believe it? But I was very good student. I was a good student. I was a good student, and I was a good suit. I was always a good student, and I was good student. You can do anything you want you up on five nothing. I was a very smart guy. Good student all that stuff. Okay. I was a great student. I went to the best schools. All that sub. Look, I was good student at school and all of that such a good student at the best school and all of that good student. I went to a great school and all that stuff. I was a great snood. I went to the best school. So I was very good student at the best are great student went to the best school, and some never know how much they can have unto you. Discover how much they can give I'm talking about a man who declares himself brilliant, but directed me to threaten his high school his colleges and the college board to never release his grades or SAT scores. This is intercepted. I'm Jeremy Scahill coming from the offices of the intercept in New York City, and this is episode eighty six of intercepted the FBI possessed the ability to enter into this field and to investigate and to intimidate and seek to neutralize and indeed replace is civil rights leader that they thought to be politically on acceptable. Is that correct? Yes. The history of the United States is rife with stories programs laws that have at their centre a dedication to crushing ending black lives. This nation was built on slavery. It was built on a white supremacist ideology. It was intended to be a white man's paradise served and serviced by its non white disenfranchised residents. Millions of whom were kidnapped from their homes in Africa and brought in chains by ship. Hip to the United States. Slavery was ultimately ended but the ideology behind it persisted. The white power structure in this country fought militantly against giving rights to black people it fought against allowing them to use the same bathrooms as white people or to eat in restaurants alongside white people it fought against their right to vote or to seek office as in many places over registration was designed to peop- negro voting to a minimal difficult literacy tests were administered by white officials, and negroes who attempted to register often harassed and all of this was what played out in public in full view, but it hardly stopped there in the mid nineteen. Fifties the notorious FBI director for life J. Edgar Hoover created a program that was aimed at secretly, destroying political and social movements, including black liberation movements. That program was known as until pro short for counter intelligence program. Today, you have in charge of the communist Prodi hardcore group of members who are dedicated to the overthrow of government by false violence, originally coin till pro was aimed at infiltrating and destroying the communist party in the US, but Jagger Hoover also directed that all covert operations aimed at destroying black liberation movements that they should be placed under the program as well. So under- coin tell pro you had black leaders such as Martin Luther King being surveilled, Malcolm X. Black Panther leaders. Nonviolent activists like buyer Rushton the fighter Mohammed Ali all of them were monitored around the clock smear campaigns were waged against them in the media Hoover, actually, tried to blackmail, Martin Luther King into committing suicide and the tactics they used. Apparently had no end they involved even plans to replace him with someone else. The FBI was to select as a national civil rights leader Egion provocateurs were sent to infiltrate black groups native American groups antiwar organizations socialist parties the purpose was to so division to provoke violence to destroy the movements from within. It was not until nineteen seventy one when the Quinto pro program broke out into the public light documents prove for the first time, the FBI undertook a program in nineteen sixty eight to Harrison destroy new left political organizations, those views. The federal police agency disagreed with rolled FBI director Hoover, the purpose of the program would be to expose and disrupt the new left. We must frustrate every effort of these groups and individuals to consolidate their forces or to recruit, new or youthful adherence. In every instance, consideration should be given to disrupting the organized activity of these groups director Hoover detail, the setup of the program saying anarchists and revolutionist had to be neutralized if law and order, and a civilized society were to survive, and it must be noted that several targets of Quinto pro operations were assassinated during this secret reign of the coin tell pro program, we still do not have the full story of whether the FBI was directly involved in many of those political assassinations that took place in this country. And even after coin tell pro was publicly exposed the tactics and aims of the programme have not died including to this day. We know that these tactics are still being used against black lives matter activists against Muslim groups activists in the US antiwar organizations, environmental groups and most recently journalists reporting on the border in this country individ-. Qu'ils on the list include journalists and attorney and dozens of others labeled by the US government as an organizer instigator. They all have a connection to the migrant caravan at the San Diego, Mexico border customs and border protection did not deny the database exists and defended its use. As Quinto pro was in full swing the US intensified its war in Vietnam in that war, the US ran assassination operations, including under the as so-called Phoenix program. They used torture. They killed massive numbers of civilians and a good number of the people who participated in these crimes abroad returned home to the United States and became police officers among these there was a man named John Burge. He was a military police officer in Vietnam, and then joined the Chicago police department rising to become a prominent detective during his time in the Chicago police, Jon Burge, married, the worlds of the murderous war in Vietnam. With the most extreme crimes of the Quinto pro program. He ran what can only be called it tort your program in the city of Chicago that was aimed at getting confessions from black men to crimes that many of them had nothing to do with Burge used many of the very tactics that he learned and implemented in Vietnam as a prison guard on the black men he encountered when he became police officer in the city of Chicago this torture included, a make shift torture machine that was used to electrically shock suspects, including by attaching alligator clips to the genitals of men and jolting their bodies with painful electric shocks at the same time. The Chicago police in concert with the FBI murdered the most prominent Black Panther leader in Illinois in his bedroom. In the middle of the night that leader was Fred Hampton, the chair of the Illinois Black Panthers and a national leader of the party. And our next guest was in that house soon after Fred Hampton, and it's felt Black Panther. Mark Clark were killed. He recalls standing in a pool of blood and December fourth nineteen sixty nine. I'm talking about the now legendary lawyer Flint Taylor, he's a founding partner of the people's law office in Chicago and office, which has been dedicated to litigating civil rights police violence government misconduct and death penalty cases for over forty five years. He spent thirteen years fighting for Justice for Hampton and Clark. He was also one of the main people responsible for exposing Jon Burge and his torturing of black men and Flint Taylor has won tens of millions of dollars in lawsuits brought on behalf of some of Burge's torture. Victims Flynn Taylor has an incredible and devastating new book out. It's called the torture machine. Racism and police violence in Chicago and Flint Taylor joins me. Now, Flint, welcome to intercept. Did. Thank you, a pleasure to be with you. I wanna start where you start in your book with the murder of Fred Hampton. I explain who Fred Hampton was will Fred Hampton was a twenty one year-old. Very charismatic young leader of the Black Panther party here in Chicago, anybody anybody. Not a rich invasive because we understand that racism is an excuse us for capitalism. We know the racism is is about. Everything if everything was put back in the hands of people that we have to put it back in the name of the he was very much an upcoming star in the panther party in nineteen sixty nine. Winco even prince people and all get together the pig exploiting. We'd be run into the league. That's why they wanna get rid of targeted. Not only by the Chicago police and the district attorney known as state's attorney here in Chicago, Edwin Hanrahan. That you fat go dead. We not gonna buy blackout. Elizabeth we go onto by those. We've not going to reactive. Fees than accident. Attorney through. Having a hand reaction how we want to buy them and acting all people get together and have international potential. Miss being all out, and it turns out the FBI J. Edgar Hoover and the counter intelligence program of the FBI coin tell pro you're referring to exactly. You can run a fleet of bat around the country. But you can't run debate around the country, you can shoot liberator, but you can't shoot liberation. If you do you come up with that don't access relations that don't explain the losing that no conclusions that don't include. If you had a win win win with visit that you've got to get out here. And you got involved yourself in his book you've got to come out input. You'll see us online come out here and support the van God potty, hand revolutionnaire stove. That's the black pepper pot. This is the NBC news noon report, the latest news with joy love acting in the twenty euro, chairman of the Illinois Black Panther party. Fred Hampton was shot and killed in a pre-dawn shootout with state's attorneys police on in his west side apartment. What happened the night that Fred Hampton was killed? I think it's pretty clear. It was an assassination happened at four thirty in the morning on December fourth nineteen sixty nine. He was asleep along with many other young Black Panthers. Many of whom were like seventeen eighteen years old when the police came on a raid, fourteen police officers with machine guns, shotguns, and they burst into the front and the back of this little apartment, and they fired over ninety shots into the bedrooms. Fred Hampton, never awoke, and they shot him through the head twice and dragged his body off of the bed that he was sweeping on as a trophy and lay it on the floor outside of the bedroom. How did you Flint end up going to the house that night, we the peoples law fice which had been founded only months? Before by young, lawyers and law students, I was one of the law students we represented the Panthers in Chicago, and we represented Fred Hampton, the Panthers who survived reached out, and we got a call come to the chairman's crib. He's been murdered and the police had left it open. They hadn't closed it off like a made it a crime scene like you would expect they would with the yellow tape. So we were able to enter the apartment and for the next ten days myself, and many others spent that time taking evidence taking video and taking pictures and the Panthers very politically astute as they were they had daily guide tours of the apartment showing people in the community. What had happened showing the walls where the bullets had gone in and showing where the machine guns had riddled, the plastic board walls. Clock booted check. We will be getting. No walls, please though. Okay. This is off the did the two shotgun. But if they had five through this with shotgun. You can look at the wall out there. Some hold out there. You can see no signs of jot gun last bit five through this door here. The reaction of one older African American woman that while I was taking evidence kind of stopped and looked at the walls, and she shook her head, and she said ain't nothing, but a northern lynching literally thousands of Chicago African American and concern white people went through that apartment for for the ten days or so till the police decided that they had to close it when you say that it's clear now that this was an assassination. Explain what you're basing that on while I'm basing it on thirteen years of fighting to uncover the truth of the case, the dominant narrative was. Was that it was a shootout that the vicious and racist? Black Panthers had fired one hundred shots at the police. And the police had only answered back says soon as Daniel growth and officers James Davis where leading our men announced their office occupancy, the apartment attack them with shotgun fire, the officers immediately took cover the occupants continued firing at our policemen from several rooms within the apartment thereafter, three times sergeant growth art at all his men to cease firing and told the occupants to come out with their hands up each time, one of the occupants replied, shoot it out and continued firing at the police officers. Of course, we were able to show by the apartment itself that was at the bow face lie the head charge the Panthers who had survived with attempted murder. We were able to show that the ballistics reports that they were trying to base the fact that the panther. I fired shots fabricated. And in fact, those shots were fired by police weapons rather than panther weapons. Those cases were dismissed, and then we went to a civil suit during which we were able to uncover the fact that not only was there Coen tell pro program designed to target and and destroy the Black Panther parting. But that's specifically the FBI had drafted a floor plan of the apartment shown where Fred Hampton would be sleeping. And in fact, the bed where he was murdered and the FBI in their racial matters. Cohen tell pro unit had passed that onto the state's attorneys police and the Chicago police and that they had used that as the kind of bedrock of that four thirty in the morning raid nonetheless, given that they found the was no probable cause to charge any of the off. Officers or Hanrahan or anyone with any kind of violations of law. The body. The big ado. We might not be how might be I might be anywhere. But when I leave, you know, masthead land way down. Oh, my. Room, and you have to keep saying you pulling -tarian, I am the people. I'm not to be you've got big at the station. And if people are going to have to tech, the p the people are going to have to stand up to be that with the doing all over the way of. Depends. You fought this then legal battle. And then you have the rise of a now notorious figure within the Chicago police department, Lieutenant Jon Burge, and he ends up being put in charge of a search for those responsible for a series of shootings that had occurred in broad daylight in Chicago and Burge then goes on a rampage throughout the city. I described who John Burge was Jon Burge grew up on the south east side of Chicago in changing neighborhood. He flunked out of college and became a military police officer sergeant in Vietnam on a POW camp where it was later demonstrated that they were doing wholesale torture during interrogation 's and that they were using such tactics as electric shock after he left Vietnam came back to Chicago became a police. Officer and quickly became a detective he brought those de human and racist attitudes and tactics back to Chicago and quickly rose in the ranks to Lieutenant in charge of the entire detective division on the fire south side of Chicago, a predominantly African American part of the city, and he used those tactics to interrogate people who were suspected of committing serious crimes. What is the earliest evidence that you have of Burj torturing African American men in police custody nineteen seventy two and nineteen seventy three Burge gut to area to as it was known. And shortly thereafter, that was a serious case where a young white boy had been seriously brutalized by some African American attackers and Burge was involved in that investigation and the. Four people that they focused on where all brutally beaten in one form or another the first time that we hear of actual use of electric shock with what my book refers to as detoro machine was in early nineteen Seventy-three a man named Anthony Holmes who was suspected of a murder who was also a reputed gang leader. He was brought to area to and had electric shock and minister to him as well as suffocation what they call dry sub Marino with a bag over his head in order to attempt to get a confession from him to a series of crimes that they thought he had knowledge of. Lift about Nolan. I was a month that any lift me up toward a bad off me work up. My my made. Last time. I this. Because. Thousand of my body eastern shuttling in the sensation. Who's just? When you're lifting master this to save do have did that over the president yet the two. I think you can just moved out of there. You use the phrase the torture machine. And while people aren't able to see it. Maybe you could describe that machine. It turns out that burgeon his people used several machines to torture. Also using plastic typewriter covers to do the dry sub Marino in suffocation, and of course, using various weapons for mock executions, but the major torture machine that was described to us by Andrew Wilson, one of the two people who was picked up during this man hunt that you referred to earlier in nineteen eighty two aiding Chicago police at this moment are scouring the city. Find to hunt down three two are believed to be responsible for shooting to Chicago policeman this afternoon. One of the policemen is dead. The other is now in critical detective swarm the scene at eighty first. And Morgan at all points bulletin was issued for two black gum. On men driving a late model. Brown Chevrolet empowers. What's new tonight votes? You cut a policeman are debt three young men are being questioned suspects. Police tonight are stepping up. What is already one of the most massive manhunt the torture machine was a black box with a field generator in in by field generator. Dan, this goes back to Vietnam in Vietnam, they had phone generators, and they they had a crank on them, and they generated sufficient electric city. So that you could talk over the wires in the battlefields and the box and whatever in Vietnam on. So if you took this, and you put it in a box, which is what Burge did you then attach wires, and you put alligator clips on the end of those wires, and then you have a torture device, and what you can do is then attach those alligator clips to the nose. To the fingers to genitals. And then you crank the box. And when you crack the box, you get enough electricity to shock the person who has the wires attached to them verge who had a boat and named the vigilante. We later uncovered head thrown this box into Lake Michigan or into the Chicago river sometime subsequent to the torture of Andrew Wilson put the while. I think my baby one on one thing on another and he kicked clinking kept cranking cranking now is Holly screening. I was calling for help and stuff teeth is glad. He painted at all the he kept cranking cranking cranking kept on doing it over over and over. It hurts stays nuhere? Locate stays in your here and grandeur teeth it class constantly grants concert pain. Just stays in your head per Jess me was I going to make a statement was he gonna talk to be some more and that him. I would make a statement. I signed anything they gave me because I didn't want to be tortured anymore. You're going to fry your black gas now because of the statement I gave. So we never were able to obtain the actual box, but through the description of Andrew Wilson, we constructed a facsimile of the box right down to the fact that it would give a shock. And in fact, that torture was the culmination of a five day man hunt that was just a terror regime led by Jon Burge, and countenanced and encouraged by the mayor at that time Jane Byrne and the state's attorney of Cook County, Richard m Daley at that point in nineteen eighty seven nineteen eighty eight we then became Andrew Wilson's lawyers. That's when I started to become intimately aware of the details of not only the torture of Andrew Wilson. There were some other names that Burge had used bragging about having torture dam, and that started us out on this crusade so to speak evidentiary. The and investigative crusade defined the men who had been tortured, and that's lead over the last thirty years as chronicled in the book to documenting over a hundred and twenty five cases of police torture during that twenty year period from nineteen seventy two to nineteen ninety one and the title of my book is the torture machine, partly because of that and partly because the machine Chicago machine daily machine democratic machine, whatever you wanna call. It was so responsible for part and parcel of this happening this twenty years of police torture as well as covering it up and refusing to prosecute Birger or any of the people that worked for him, but rather promoting him and using the illicit and unconstitutional evidence that they would get from men who were tortured. Thinking that they were actually on the brink of death. Prosecutors taking those confessions being in those station rooms knowing that this was happening using that evidence in court judges knowing it was happening. Not throwing out the confessions. But rather refusing to credit the stories that were being told again, and again by tortured suspects on people who ultimately would end up convicted many of whom actually ended up on Ellen oy row. You know, I was just quote a nigga to them. That's it. They kept using that word like that was my name, you know. So no, ma'am adad. No respect me being a human being. I never respected quote police officers to do anything that Bobby in on. But because the fact that African American, you know, who's gonna believe me, you know, in court, nobody. One of the most moving stories in the book is the story of Darrell cannon to Burgess henchmen his most trusted lieutenants picked up Darrell in nineteen eighty three as a suspect in murder case took him to an abandoned area where near some factories where there was a body of water and some old railroad tracks, and they tortured him. I they attempted to hang him up by his handcuffs, but that didn't work. So they then took a shotgun out of the trunk and they took the shotgun. And they forced it into his mouth. They then pulled the trigger on the shotgun. That was in Darryl's mouth. He thought it was going to go off. It didn't they did it three times. And the third time Darryl described it as he pictured that the back of his head had been blown off. They throw him in the back of the detective car pulled his. Pants down and they had a handy. Little a cattle prod and they use the cattle prod on his genitals. And I'll timidly they got him to sign a confession back at the station that he was accountable that he had driven the car in which the the murder had taken place and Darryl's case went on for decades. In fact, I remember Flint, I believe it was the first time that I was with you in person in Chicago was years ago. When Darryl had finally gotten out of prison, and I have never been able to shake from my mind, Daryl struggling through the emotion that tears the pain to tell publicly his story. But explain how he eventually got out when he got out and what the resolution of that case was he was sentenced to life, and they put him in the supermax prison and TAM's. Which is at the very very southern tip of the state in clan country during that time, we were developing all this evidence of a pattern and practice of police torture. We were able to get Darryl new hearing in his case armed with evidence that not only was he tortured by these henchmen for Burge. But there was a whole litany of different cases that Burge and his men had tortured people and in two thousand and seven which was twenty four years after he was I tortured. He got out of prison talk about who else knew or was aware that Burge was running these torture operations, how high up did it go in the government in the city of cog or state of Illinois state's attorney daily knew that torture took place at police headquarters as well as it area to the police superintendent new. That the mayor of the city of Chicago, Jane, Byrne, new and encouraged it she met with Burge on at least two or three occasions. We learned a decades later, and she said whatever is necessary. And of course, at that point Burge was Lieutenant who is the head of an entire police area. So we're talking about people very high up daily himself was presented with medical evidence that Andrew Wilson had been tortured. He was the prosecutor, and he decided not to prosecute Burge because he knew that if he did that the case against Andrew and Jackie Wilson would be jeopardized. So he instead commended Burge as did the superintendent of police, and because of that in nineteen eighty two we have another ten years of torture that goes on before the. Evidence that we uncovered was taken to the police department and reinvestigation was done. And ultimately Burge was fired in nineteen Ninety-three. What happened after Burj was fired? Was he ultimately charged with any crimes guess fifteen years later, the virgin state your full name and spell it for the record. Please John Jalen hill initial Jesus George Burge B U R G now. During that twenty five years twenty years of working with the Chicago police department. Did you come across instances of police torture? I will adapt. My prayer answer to the first question my answer to that question. Are you taking your fifth amendment rights? It's that's correct place that play this year. Take a fifth. Correct. And where are you interrogating a suspect in area two? It seems as though that regularly. They're sort of this sense that oh Chicago now has to face up to the actions of its police department, and there has to be accountability. And this has to be stopped. And yet we keep having these kinds of cases in Chicago where there's extra judicial killings or questionable killings by the police where thirty tricks or used against suspects, and where black neighborhoods are laid siege. To what about that legacy? And the fact that the Chicago police probe it never never really seems to fundamentally change. I wouldn't argue with you. There have been significant victories that the community has accomplished over the years, not the least of which was Burge actually being convicted and being sent to the penitentiary. Of course, it wasn't for torture. It was for perjury and obstruction of Justice. And of course, reparations I mean, this is the first city to have reparations for. Survivors of police torture. Almost exclusively African American men an apology from the mayor in the city council directly to those men and most significantly a counseling center for victims of torture and brutality. And the fact that the history of police torture will be taught and is already being taught eighth and tenth graders in the Chicago public schools. But you're correct when you look at the Quan McDonald case and the cover up of that case and the judge who what those three offices who covered up in the face of the videotape. You look at the power of the fraternal order of police here who basically more powerful than the police department itself. Now, all police officers black and white belong to it or supposed to belong to it. And yet when it comes time to decide whether to defend Burge into spend the dues. To pay for private lawyers to defend Burge in his firing case. And later in his criminal case that's unanimously passed when it comes time to pay the lawyers for Van Dyke the officer who murdered Liquan McDonald on videotape. The F O P does that when it's time to pick it in a courtroom where we're fighting for the release thirty six years later of a man who was tortured, the F O P is there, and there seems to be a regardless of the fact that there's ten or fifteen percent officers of color that still happens not only does that still happen. But even though we have an African American police superintendent who was put in place by Rahm Emanuel after the Liqun McDonalds a tape became public. He came from within the department. He knows where all the bones are buried he. In fact, was part of the culture of. Of the code of silence and of racism, even though he was is African American over all these years. And in fact, he as have several of the prior African American superintendents, basically been connected to that machine. And also been in fact, front men of four the politics of racism and brutality that comes from the democratic machine on down Flynn Taylor. I want to thank you, first and foremost for the tireless work that you've done over these decades and the work that you've done to free people against the odds who were tortured by agents of the state or unjustly imprisoned by agents of the state. Thank you so much Flint Taylor for writing the book and for the work that you have done for so long. Thank you as well. I'm pleased an honor to be on your show and right back at you for all the wonderful work that you do Flynn Taylor is a founding partner of the people's law. Office in Chicago, he spent his life fighting against the torture extrajudicial killings of black people targeted by the Chicago police. His new book is called the torture machine. Racism and police violence in Chicago. It's published by Haymarket books. Just a heads up. I'm going to be a guest this week on deconstructed the podcast hosted by my colleague, Mehdi Hassan. We're gonna be talking about his incredible hour long interview of blackwater founder, Erik prince among other topics gonna talk about what prince was doing at a secret meeting with done junior and his Isreaeli and representatives of some repressive era. Governments you owe whether any communica phone communications contact with the campaign, you said of from writing papers putting up y'all signed. No what you said transcript to the conversation here. Sure, I might have been I think it was at Trump headquarters or the campaign headquarters, August the twenty sixteen usable. And he's really, dude. A back channel emerald the Saudis don't junior even with to talk about Iran policy, you own policy something important to disclose house tenants committee, while you're drove did didn't we just went through the testimony? There's no mention of the Trump Tower Tino twenty sixteen. I don't know if they got the transcript from that's coming up on Thursday on deconstructed make sure to tune in. When Barack Obama became commander in chief in January of two thousand nine he embraced a strategy proposed to him by the CIA and the US military's elite special operations command while scaling back. Some troop deployments such as in Iraq Obama began to radically increase the number of US drone strikes. Both those conducted by the CIA and the military, and he also focused more on assassinating people that his administration designated as terrorists or suspected militants this resulted in the creation of what amounted to a secret parallel Justice system, where the president and his advisors served as the prosecutors, the judge the jury and ultimately the executioner at one point they discuss these so-called nominees for death by drone strike weekly meetings known as terror Tuesday's they killed US citizens and foreigners and the entire process was shrouded in secrecy and Obama effectively. Sold liberals on the idea that he was waging a smarter war than Bush, and he sold them on the idea that they should trust his secret process to make sure the so-called bad guys were being targeted and that every precaution was being taken to spare civilian life to this day. We do not know how many people have been killed in US drone strikes. And we do not know the identity of the overwhelming majority of the people killed after nearly eight years in office in two thousand sixteen the Obama administration. Scrambled to put in place rules for these assassination operations. Obama also signed an executive order committing his administration to providing the public with estimates on the number of civilians killed as president and as commander in chief. I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations, including the one that virtually took the lives of Warren and Giovanni. I profoundly regret. What happened? After the United States government. I offer our deepest apologies to the families despite Obama's claims to regret the killing of civilians his administration never explained why it killed the sixteen year old US citizen of the Rochman lucky in a drone strike in Yemen. In two thousand eleven the American Civil Liberties union has been legally challenging drone strike since they began, and when they ramped up under Obama, Donald Trump, then comes into office and twenty seventeen after having pledged to kill more people possibly kill the families of suspected terrorists. His pledge to bring back torture and to fill one tunnel backup as soon as Trump took office a botched Yemen raid killed another lucky child this time. It was the eight year old daughter of Anwar Al lucky, but Trump's murderous expansion of raids and drone strikes has only gotten worse as time has gone on. They never got hit like this. We took off to loves. In one year. We did more damage to ISIS than other administration a certain other administration did in many. Donald Trump's current director Gina hassle was a key figure in the Bush era, torture and black site program and twenty seventeen Trump did not disclose estimates of civilians killed as called for under Obama's executive order. And then earlier this year Trump made it all fischel, and he rescinded that order. The Pentagon is still required to report how many civilians have been killed in their strikes, but that requirement only covers the department of defense. So the covert drone strikes that are conducted, by the way are completely off the books. Also, there's the fact that the identities of many of the people killed in these strikes are unknown. And they are preemptively labelled enemies killed in action in less. They are posthumously proven to have been civilians, but it's not just the clawing back of the incredibly minimal standards that Obama put in place. Trump has loosened rules for striking when civilians may be killed. He's authorized and unprecedented drone assassination campaign aimed at so called foot soul. Soldiers of the Qaeda affiliate al-shabaab in Somalia in just two years in office. Donald Trump is shattering Obama's bloody record on the number of drone strikes and the numbers of people killed in those strikes to discuss all of this. I'm joined by one of the top lawyers who was fighting the Bush administration the Obama administration. And now the Trump administration on these policies in Shamsi is the director of the national security project, and she joins me now. Henna welcome back to intercepted. Thanks for having me again. So earlier this month Trump signed this executive order on the revocation of reporting requirement regarding US drone strikes overseas. Before we talk about that revocation the day before Trump comes into office. What was the policy on this that had been set by Brock Obama said there couple of things one the policy on transparency and won the policy on the underlying program. So with respect to transparency Obama had put in place. An executive order in twenty sixteen requiring disclosure of civilian and what they called combatant casualties, right? And also requiring the government certain committing the government to explain discrepancies between the government's count which has always been low, and that by independent media and human rights groups, and that's what Trump revoked their other parts of the executive order, though, which still remain which include that the government is still committed to taking into account reporting about civilian casualties from outside groups. It's just now that everything becomes less. Open far more secret. The fact that you say that Obama did this twenty sixteen he was he elected in two thousand eight he spent eight years expanding drone operations around the world. Why did it take him until twenty sixteen to put in any kind of rules? And why did they do it at the very end of the Obama administration? I think one of the things that was going on is that the Obama administration. Never let go of really the most. Underlying expensive and dangerous legal arguments about the thirty that the president had to carry out an authorized strikes in countries where we were not at war. And that's the underlying program that I mentioned earlier, and and that was what really concerned us, which is that, you know, throughout the administration. They Voss -ly expanded this lethal program of strikes, and they did so by cherry picking from a mishmash of legal frameworks that essentially exist to limit when the government kills including especially outside the context of armed conflict, and they took the most permissive aspects of those legal frameworks, but not the aspects that were safeguards, and I think genuinely people in the Obama administration were troubled by what they were doing. Even as they were unable to let it go. And so what they did was put a gloss of policy safeguards that to limit harm to civilians. But there have to be some guardrails, and what we've had to do on things like drones or say or a number of the tools that we used to. Penetrate terrorist networks we've got to do is to build this the guard rails internally essentially set up a whole series of processes to guard against government overreach to reform some practices that I thought over time with threaten civil liberties. And that's where we were by the end of twenty sixteen and then Trump gets elected. And I think there's a real sense of what's going to happen. But in unwillingness to let go of where they had arrived, which is the underlying very dangerous expensive program in the first place. If I'm not mistaken, Trump has already conducted more drone strikes in his two years or so in office than Obama did during eight years in office, we've seen this radical uptick in strikes and Somalia where hundreds of people have been killed in Somalia. We don't know who they they are. But describe. How on this issue? Things have changed from Obama to Trump in in your view as someone not just on a legal perspective in a but as someone who has just intimately followed the evolution of the assassination programs in the United States. What what is the change or difference from Obama to Trump that you've seen? So couple of things. One is. Secrecy really really gone up and higher and backup. So far more strikes being carried out exactly as you said, Jeremy and a real unwillingness, and the revocation that we just talked about as part of that real unwillingness to say where they're happening why. So that's a significant change between the end of the Obama administration the Trump administration. There's also a level of lifting of safeguards lifting of constraints. Right. And I think one of the striking things about the Trump era is that it makes very clear to everyone. How fragile policy norms are and how important legal arguments are right and legal claims. So there's been continuity in the United States with respect to this really illegal and immoral program. But now the policy constraints have been lifted and Somalia is clear example of that. So part of what we've seen happening in smaller. Is it started out as strikes stencil Bley against al-qaeda, then it expanded to shebab is an affiliate of Al Qaeda, and then it expanded to strikes against al-shabaab in support of local partner forces. So what you have is getting further and further away from any kind of strikes that are against what the program said it was about which was exceptional originally to high level people. And now, there are strikes taking place against people who are sensually, what are low level who don't pose a threat to the United States and its ever expanding as you, and I both know based on. Documents that were provided to the intercept by a whistle blower who had worked as part of the assassination program in these drone operations that at least when it comes to the two strikes directed and run by the Pentagon that the policy under Obama of the military was that if you kill thirty people in a strike, and you know, the identity of one of them because they were the objective. They were your target and you've killed that individual the other twenty nine people that are killed there are preemptively, categorized as enemies killed in action until or unless someone later proves that in fact, they were a woman or a child or an innocent civilian is that still the policy as far as, you know, under Trump, do you know, what the policy is. It isn't known. And here's why the secrecy is on. There is right. We were second to no one in criticizing Obama and his policies. And I still think that we have. To focus not just on the transparency, but what's also important, which is the underlying illegal and immoral policy itself with respect to what was happening by the end of the Obama administration. At least you had some better sent some level of commitment to providing the kind of transparency that would enable some level of public accountability and debate right, but Trump is really seeking to prevent that. Here's a thing. So in in the order that Trump just issued changing the secrecy provisions. He says they're essentially duplicative of provisions that exist in law. But here's what the law says that law applies to the military not the CIA critically. The CIA also carries out strikes including drone strikes in it does so in far greater secrecy than the military does and with far less oversight than even the imperfect oversight. There exists over the military now in twenty eight teen and twenty nineteen in legislation to congress credit it imposed some rigorous reporting requirements on the military with respects to the strikes that carries out. We'll see how those pan out. We'll see what becomes made public because that's critically important. What the Trump revocation does is increase the secrecy with respect to the CIA, even as Trump agreed with Pompeo and agreed to get the CIA back into or more involved in the business of being a paramilitary killing organization. What's the significance of Gina hospital? Ascending to the position of director of the regarding these issues, we're talking about I think it should not escape anyone's attention that Gina hassle paid a key role in the Bush administration's torture per gram and plays a key. Key role into siding. What will and will not be made public about that? And about strikes at this point. Now, we are at a point where there's more killing less oversight more secrecy, less public accountability. And the American public. I think really me to finally have a debate a reckoning about what this program is in our names in the harm. It is causing on this issue of war and killing civilians in drone strikes, and whether the US has a right to be engaged militarily in in in countries that congress hasn't declared war on what does it mean that you have William bar as the attorney general? I mean, you fought for years against Obama's attorneys-general. But what does that mean on these issues? William bar has like many people in the Trump administration to very extreme set of us about the ability of the executive branch to engage national security decision making, and I would expect that those extreme views would be reflected in any court cases. That are brought here's the thing as I hope we're starting to see I feel like sometimes, you know, when we have these conversations germy, I can feel very pessimistic. But I wanna sort of talk about a couple of more if not entirely optimistic, but things that are encouraging one is that look how much congress pushed back against Trump's emergency declaration with respect to the border wall. And that's actually one of the lawsuits that we currently have ongoing, but also just returning to this killing program this lethal strike per gram overseas, I find it somewhat encouraging that at least some former officials from the. The Obama administration are beginning to grapple with. What is a really morally and legally fought position that they have taken and are recognizing the consequences of what happens when you think. Okay. We just need to maintain the option we just need to maintain this exceptional thing. But you find that the exception becomes the rule and exceptional killing becomes a policy of killing where if I had I mean, the former killer and chief of J Sokha Stanley mcchrystal has been one of those voices that you know, he he spoken publicly and said, and it's the perception of. We can step back and hurled thunderbolts like four without any risk to ourselves. That's viewed as arrogance now, whether that's right or wrong perceptions matter in the world their argument on it is typically based on what's best for quote, unquote, American interest and the safety of of American troops. But yes, there is a growing chorus of voices of former military people in particular who are saying it's not good when we do this. They may not have the same reasoning as you or I do, but it lands at the same place killing civilians as bad it does. And I think that's because more and more people are coming to recognize that this policy of killings outside of war zones of recognized armed conflict is part of the forever war approach. Right. America's deadly addiction to war based responses to real and perceived threats without. Taking into account alternatives. Whether those alternatives are feasability of capture right, which is one of the things that need to be taken into account or diplomacy or longer-standing outcomes that people on the ground in these countries have said if you wanna help us if you want to reduce the regional and domestic conflicts that you are now purporting to engage yourself in. Then there are other things that you can do that are better than an alternative to killing. And I think more and more people are beginning to recognize that some policymakers are beginning to recognize that there's more of a commitment to ending the American forever war approach, and those are some of the things that I think we need to hang onto with a word of caution, which is that virtually old policy proposals. That we've started to see with respect to ending the forever wars carve out the ability to engage in counterterrorism strikes. Against purported terrorists and terrorist groups, and that's exactly the program that you and I are talking about now. So when we see these policy proposals. I think folks have to be really looking at what they do and don't do because the US has a long history of criticizing other countries for rights violations while excusing its own. I wanted to ask you to respond to Ned price who was one of those former Obama era officials he was at the also was the spokesperson for Obama's national Security Council, and this week the takeaway, he said that for the first time it allowed the administration to rebut with actual facts and figures the misinformation and even disinformation that terrorist groups and other adversaries around the globe put out in an attempt to undermine public confidence in and perception of the effectiveness in the accuracy. And the results of American drone strikes are counter terrorism operations around the world. What's your response to that? Well, one way to take away propaganda value is not take agent unlawful killings in the first place. And I don't mean to be glib about this at all what you've gotta realize also happening is justification and entrenchment of the entire underlying program itself. And what a perspective that focuses on the propaganda value of the proported enemy or the real enemy. Does is it really minimizes the viewpoints of people in the countries in which we're carrying out these strikes. It doesn't take into account the longer term strategic costs and consequences, and it doesn't take into account the harm to the rule of law because these are the things that we are also going to be living with for very long time until we rain this back in an end, it how much responsibility should we put on Obama and his administration? For what Trump is now doing because they pushed the envelope so far and Trump just has broken it wide open. But how as we look at this issue of Trump killing people expanding wars taking away what minimal accountability there was in these kinds of strikes. How should we view that administration in the context of these Trump policies? The arguments that have been made with respect to the sleep policy. Started out under the Bush administration started out in various more or less transparent ways, mostly less, transparent ways, and the Bush administration entrenched an expanded by the Obama administration with all safeguards or critical safeguards lifted by the Trump administration and exactly as you're saying, Jeremy what it comes down to is the fact that the US has a policy in which the executive branch, the president claims the unilateral authority to kill suspects far from any battlefield without any to process at all. And that has been is continues to be a very very dangerous thing with respect to rights rule of law outcome strategy which ever perspective you want to look at it. From or heavy say, I wanna thank you for. All the work that you do in for staying as optimistic as you do given how dark and depressing. So many of the issues you take on our. I really I admire you for having the spine that you have and the heart that you have. So thank you for being with us, really no choice except to keep going. That's what my team and I do. Thank you very much for having me Hinna, Sean is the director of the American Civil Liberties union national security project. You can find our Twitter at him Shamsi. Last month. Representative Ilhan Omar apologized after mounting bipartisan allegations that she engaged in anti semitic speech, this particular point of attack on Representative Omar began after my colleague Glenn Greenwald called out house minority leader Kevin McCarthy for threatening to punish Omar and Representative Rashida to leave for criticizing Israel in response. Omar tweeted, it's all about the Benjamins baby. After a day of swift outrage from Democrats and Republicans Ilhan, Omar apologized, saying quote, anti semitism is real and I'm grateful for Jewish allies and colleagues who are educating me on the painful history of anti semitic tropes. My intention is never to offend my constituents or Jewish Americans as a whole Ilhan Omar went on to say quote at the same time. I reaffirm the problematic role of lobbyists in our politics. Whether it be a pack the NRA or the fossil fuel industry, but Omar's criticism of Israel. Policies and the powerful influence of lobbyists on US politics continues to be intentionally muddled with charges of antisemitism. I take very personally I would go so far as I probably for John being as IRAs does. Well, but I will say that. I don't have family that is Jewish. But Joe Lieberman and had Lieberman are my family, and I take the hate crimes rising in this country incredibly seriously. And I think what's happening in Europe is really scary getting emotional, but the idea that this politicized. I'm really not. I was very nervous about this on the show because I thought it would become politicized, and it really shouldn't be less. Week Meghan McCain the daughter of the late John McCain and co host of the view used her very large platform to acquaint Ilhan Omar's criticism of the Israeli government to anti semitic dog whistling the tactic of using coded racist language. You know, what Trump actually does all the time gestures pay Democrats tendon to the Democrats and Soros, and they came from all over gives you win the victors interviews them. And then they try and cut it. But then they'll go to a person holding who gets paid by Soros or somebody. That's what happened power-hungry globalist noted loveless. Back to Megan McCain her emotional plea conflicting criticism of the Israeli government with anti semitism. Inspired by next guest to give McCain the credibility. She was perhaps seeking that artist. Elevated in his known style of depicting subjects in a grotesque manner with folds of flesh. Drew Meghan McCain sitting at a table crying surrounded by what he calls Jewish kitsch. Once valley tweeted, it the image went viral and McCain who is not Jewish cried, antisemitism and denounced it calling the cartoon itself. Quote, one of the most anti semitic things that she'd ever seen joining me now to discuss the now infamous McCain comic is Ellie. He is a writer and artist whose work has been featured in the nation, the new Republic, the nib and elsewhere. He's also the author of diaspora boy comics on crisis in America and Israel Ellie while. Calmed intercepted. Thank you German last week. You tweeted a cartoon that featured Meghan McCain and Meghan McCain now famously went off on you. She said, this is one of the most anti semitic things I've ever seen. Also, this reveals much more about you Ellie than it does about me. I what inspired this cartoon that you drew of Meghan McCain, her tears, you know, her publicized and televised. Here is on the view the preceding day talking about how she was basically terrified and beyond concerned about the potential hazard to the Jewish people by Johann, Omar and just because I don't technically have Jewish family that are blood related me doesn't I don't take this as seriously, and it is very dangerous very dangerous. And I think we all collectively as Americans on both sides, and what Ilan home are saying is very scary to me. And it's very scary to a lot of people. And I don't think you have to be Jewish to recognize for so many in the Jewish left were appalled in general by the show trials. Ilan Omar appalled in particular. That woman who is not Jewish claiming Jewish trauma in order to vilify Muslim refugee women of color in congress clear. What the stakes are hearing what the sides are, you know, in terms of power and less power Ilan, powered I'm not trying to pretend she is currently refugee, but you know, Megan McCain, I think has more power in terms of public perception of what is good, and what is evil in American psyche. Then when the tears it was such a clear appropriation of Jewish identity and Jewish trauma. And I remember I was coming back from visiting some friends the subway and I see like everyone's like tweeting. I remember what it was, particularly if it was the tears themselves or something that happened after that jokingly tweeted don't make me draw. Megan McCain, you know, and then all of a sudden like everyone's deluge of people who are adding me saying this has to be you had to its natural number like it was like, I don't even have a choice not because of peer pressure because it was like one of those things where the comic road itself. I didn't even think of a huge scenario. I mean, I w-. Basically drawing reality with the single tweak was that I was giving her Jewish identity instead of her saying, oh, I feel so much for the Jewish people. It was like I am a job that was that was the twist describe for people what the Meghan McCain cartoon looked like and what the concept was that you were playing with as you created it. So she's saying basically, the things she said about the holy land. Specifically holy land. Which is the Christian description of Israel Palestine etcetera that refugee girl wants to exterminate us Jews and she'll pinning a star of star on her chest. She she's pouring unmixed multiple soup mix into a bowl overflowing. There's a drill there's Yandell. There's Christian guy to say to Passover Seder. I wanted to show her appropriating Jewish kid. I was trying to imagine what someone who has fetish ising Jews from outside the community would think is Jewish, you know, but I could not leave out entirely trauma because she had tears because she was implying that. Don, Omar is of the same level as like, Nazis, you know, she was claiming on demonizing the Jews. And so I wanted to symbol of that's included Jewish Yuda starve, David from Germany, and I think that might have been what pissed off the Jewish right and her the most, but I was trying not to do the the obvious Seinfeld. References trying to go for a little bit more sort of intra Jewish jokes. But also, you know, like making fun of what a clearly gentle person would consider be Jewish and gentle was the core of it and also multiple soup without actually being mixed with water. Just so people understand. This fact of Meghan McCain who is not Jewish was attacking you saying that it was the most anti semitic thing she's ever seen. And she's saying that she the non Jew has been subjected to an anti semitic attack by you, the Jewish comic artist. Yeah. I mean, first of all everyone immediately on Twitter. That's what they were or the public discourse. That's like leaping onto how absurd it was. But I do need to say. That I am. So accustomed an acclimated to being called self hitting ju an anti Semite because I believe Palestinians have human rights, essentially for the past ten years that when a gentile woman says to me that when she raises my Jewishness that's nothing new to me. I wasn't even it didn't mean like click as something odd because the leadership of the Jewish community has been saying that's not only to me some special person that regard to the entire Jewish left for decades. Now, you did this cartoon of Meghan McCain. You put it online. It goes pretty viral quickly on Twitter. What was it like to be you? And they made it aftermath of that. Well, I mean, honestly, I was on doing it because often when I'm when I have an idea like this go to sleep like four in the morning wake up at like ten ish. And then I'll be drawing it all day. I'm like, no a feeling going on the view talking about her affiliation to the Jews again. And I want to get ahead of that. So I was like up all night. Just do it get it up by nine. And I was glad for that. But what changed everything was when she claimed. Sometime in the morning that was the most anti semitic thing she'd ever seen the absurdity of calming the way stretched away from reality essentially was instead of just appropriating to its culture. She was she was ju-. She had us Jews. So when she claimed that it was anti semitic. And obviously, I'm Jewish and she's not Jewish but by claiming its antisemitic this mockery of gentlewoman for appropriate Jewish culture. She's actually making the comic true, which is like something that's beautiful that can happen with satire that it actually becomes real becomes more real once it's out in the world. And there's this reaction to it which I didn't intend. I had no idea that she was going to I wasn't like bathing her. But it was like it was I'm not gonna stop her from saying it's because it's just so ridiculous. And what about from people who aren't Meghan McCain? I mean, I know there are a lot of people who were who really felt like your analysis was spot on. There were a lot of people sharing it because they felt like it was a really great searing, revelatory commentary and analysis. But what did that kick off when then Meghan McCain accused you of this? Grand act of antisemitism. Basically the bad faith. Sleaze bags the same people who have been demonizing Ilhan, Omar terrorist for saying that America's relationship with Israel is monolithic, and we need to question it. They actually happen to be the same people who've called me anti-semitic for saying Jewish left is authentic or that Palestinians have rights, and so they immediately leapt to her side, they left to the side of the gentlewoman calling Jew antisemitic because that's just part of their whole narrative as recently as Monday Sarah Sanders, when she finally agreed to do some brief speaking to reporters, she was responding to questions regarding Trump, saying Democrats hate Jews when Steve king made terrible comments. We called it out by name. We stripped him of his committee memberships, and we'd like to see Democrats follow first of all you mentioned Steve king, president creepy. Wrong has not condemned king. I said praising white supremacy as the president publicly come out and said anything. Kandar resident on a number of topics, and I've talked about that a number of times that I refer you back to those comments Bri used words, like horri- and unacceptable. Honestly, the king thing is absurd because it's one out of maybe ten thousand examples that they could be using against him. You know, that's part of the whole, you know, gasoline phenomenon and the sort of over saturation with scandal. It's like Ilan, Omar says one word allegiance, and we stop everything we talk about it for three days. Trump has been doing this like nonstop one of the problems is like when we're trying to focus on one thing he'll be doing three other things and not just with this with everything criminal about his administration. Essentially, let's start at the beginning of the of the immediate controversy. That's been ginned up around Ilhan, Omar, do you have any problem at all with any of the comments that are being cited based on what she said about APEC and originally this happened in a retreat of my colleague Glenn Greenwald. And that was how this started. She said it's all about the Benjamins baby. And then the way that she responded when there was this uproar within the Democratic Party. Was there anything that L Han, Omar said that you have a problem with thus far in my view. She has not been as delicate as she can be when dealing with these kind of thorny vernacular issues, and that's not to say, she's at all said anything antisemitic. It's to say that with insert context and removed from the full paragraph of what she said and when approached via through the lens of bad faith, assholes, then she's gonna get shit for it. So it's not so much that I have a problem what she said I have a little problem with her maybe lack of sort of sensitivity to these issues. So that she's not going to get into these unnecessary show trials, but like distractions, you know, in two thousand seventeen when launching your book diaspora, boy comics on crisis in American Israel. You said the following we have to stop allowing people who side with Nazis to define Jewish authenticity for us. Explain what you meant there in terms of. Authenticity. The Jewish world for the past. Several decades has created this veneer of authentic saying that real Jewishness Zionist real Jewishness, ultimately orthodox and everything else sort of like falling down from there under that rationale. They could say that I am a self hater. Because I am not as and I'm not orthodox and that the mass majority of American Jews have problems with their Jewishness because they have not accepted Israel as their homeland cetera. Or or that they don't agree with Netanyahu that kind of thing. And it just turns out that in the aggregate, the same people who have been pushing this. You know, the right wing Jews who happened to be in the leadership of the American Jewish community. You know, saying horrible horrible things and never getting censured never getting thrown out for it have any aggregate supported Donald Trump's rise and supported the GOP Nazi party, and they are currently in bed with people seeking to destroy the Jewish people, and we have not come to terms with yet. We haven't taken action against this in my view. There should be excommunications. If you would not say, you're not part of the Jewish people. You know? That's pretty basic fucking standard L E value. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for having me. It was nice Ellie is a writer artist and author of diaster boy comics on crisis in America and Israel. You can find him on Twitter at L E valley. Elliot's spelled E L I. That doesn't for this week show. If you are not yet, a sustaining member of intercepted, log onto the intercept dot com slash join and get together with the more than three thousand other people who are already sustaining members of this program intercept that is production of first look media and the intercept our producer, Jack Doro, and our executive producer is Lee. Tom Alah flora Flynn is associate producer police slain as our assistant producer and graphic designer requ on mixed the show transcription is done by nudie marquess Martinez. Our music as always was composed by DJ spooky until next week. I'm Jeremy Scahill.

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Democracy Now! 2019-03-20 Wednesday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:02 min | 1 year ago

Democracy Now! 2019-03-20 Wednesday

"The. Brown. Pacifica. This is democracy now. News Donbass conclusion may I say that Brazil and the United States stand side by side in their efforts to Scher liberties in respect to traditional family lifestyles respect to God, our creator against gender ideology, or the politically correct attitudes and against fake news, Brazil's far-right precedent. Former army captain j or sonata makes his first trip to the White House where he was warmly received by President Trump. You look at the network. You look at the news. You look at the news casts. I call it fake news. Very proud to hear the president used the term fake news. Trump vowed to strengthen economic and military ties with Brazil as the two leaders discussed their push for gene change in. Venezuela. To topple nNcholas Maduro. We'll get the latest then we look at the torture, machine racism and police violence in Chicago, we cannot count it's torture in this country, or by this country, and intil all people who torture and all those people who are responsible for torturing brought to Justice, the conscience of Chicago and the conscience of this country cannot be cleanse we'll speak to longtime civil rights Turney, Flint Taylor of the people's law office in Chicago about his new book, the torture machine will also speak with Rutgers professor Lilia Fernandez, author of Brown in the windy city. All that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot org. The Warren peace report, I made me Goodman, President Trump hosted bristles far-right precedent. Former army captain j your Bill sonata with the White House, Tuesday sonata has been dubbed the Trump of the tropics Trump announced he would designate Brazil, a major non-nato ally. Opening the door for Brazil to receive more US military aid. Trump also suggested Brazil could even become a member of NATO the two leaders. Both criticized what they call the fake news and discussed increasing efforts to topple Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro from office, President Trump threaten to further intensify crippling US sanctions on Venezuela, which is already facing a humanitarian crisis. But we really haven't done the really tough sanctions yet. We can do the tough sanctions at all options are open. So we may be doing that. But we haven't done the toughest of sanctions as you know. We'll have more on Brazil after headlines major blow for immigrant rights. The supreme court ruled the governor. Can detain immigrants with past criminal records indefinitely without due process. Even decades after their convictions, the five to four ruling Tuesday in favor of the government centers around a nineteen ninety six law that allows him Gration officials to take immigrants into custody after they're released from jail, but without specifying timeframe, the you which brought the case on behalf of immigrants affected by the law said, quote, the supreme court has endorsed the most extreme interpretation of immigration detention statutes allowing mass incarceration of people without any hearing simply because they're defending themselves against deportation charge will continue to fight the gross overuse of detention in the immigration system. Unquote, forty year old Mexican migrant died in L Paso, Texas, while in the custody of customs and border protection. Monday officials say the unnamed man was brought in for medical care and diagnosed with flu like symptoms liver and renal failure. He died just one day after he was apprehended by border control. He's the fourth known. Migrant to die in recent months while in government custody in more immigration news asylum seekers who were sent back to Mexico by the Trump administration while they awaited legal proceedings return to the US Tuesday for their first hearings lawyers for the migrants or requesting their clients be allowed to remain in the US while their cases proceed this is turning Robin Barnard from the group human rights. I in the. The dangerous that asylum seekers and refugees face in Mexico, and this pot of Mexico's well, so we plan to present that to the judge into the government today to say, that's the reason why they shouldn't be sent back to their case from Tijuana, according to U S officials ran two hundred forty migrants who entered the US since late January have been sent back to Mexico under the controversial policy as their asylum requests or process and new report by mistake national released Tuesday found US air strikes have killed fourteen civilians in Somalia since two thousand seventeen despite government officials maintaining there have been no civilian casualties. US air rates and Somalia have steadily increase in Trump came to office and authorize the use of targeted strikes against the spec. L shebab militants, according to the think tank new America at least two hundred fifty two people have been killed in around two dozen US air strikes in Somalia so far this year, the airstrikes could amount to violations of international humanitarian law and even. Constitute war crimes, according to Amnesty International at least ten migrants traveling by boat died Tuesday after their vessel sank off the Libyan coast. At least one baby was among the dead. According to Libyan officials seventeen people were rescued the migrants came from various nations, including Sudan and Bangladesh. This is one of the survivors of the shipwreck. Lou we arrived in the middle of the water. The captain said we can't continue the side of the wave hit us to children died. Two newborn babies myself. My leg broke girls with broken legs pregnant women were stuck in the water Israeli forces shot and killed a Palestinian, man. They suspected of carrying out an attack in the occupier West Bank Sunday, which resulted in the killing him and Israel soldier and a rabbi in a separate incident in the West Bank, Tuesday's rarely forced to shot and killed two Palestinian men at a holy site near the city of knob less Israeli soldiers say the two men threw explosives from a car. There are no known injuries from the alleged explosives attack in Egypt. The top media regulator is imposing new restrictions on certain websites and social media pages that are designated as threats to national security. The rule would apply to social media account said of over five thousand followers and allow the government to block access to the sites for posting so-called fake news and find them up to fifteen thousand. Without a court order journalists and press. Freedom advocates have condemned. The move which they say is just the latest effort by the government of president of delta tau C C to silence critics reporters without borders has called Egypt one of the world's biggest prisons for journalists. Meanwhile in Russia, President Vladimir Putin signed to new media laws Monday, and what critics say is a ramp up of state censorship, the laws target so called fake news and criticism of public officials and impose penalties on individuals and groups that disrespect the state including hefty fines and blocking the sites. Individuals are also subject to imprisonment for certain offenses in Columbia to more community leaders have been killed over the past week of fun. So Korea wasn't environmentalist and member of the local peasants association and local leader Argimiro. Lopez fought for replacing illegal crops, the killings are the latest spate of activist murders in Colombia back in the US, President Trump nominated former delta executive pilot. Steve Dixon to lead the Federal Aviation Administration. The agency has not had a permanent head over a year. Trump had wanted to nominate his personal pilot John Duncan, but he faced scrutiny overs lack of qualifications Dixon's nomination comes as investigators are looking into the approval in development of Boeing seven thirty-seven, Maxine jetliners in the wake of the two fatal crashes last week's Ethiopian Airlines flight three oh to an October lion. Air flight six ten in Indonesia. Both crashes killed all cruise passengers on board altogether. More than two hundred fifty people and were found to have clear similarities based on early data reports are emerging the lion. Air flight almost went down day the day before the deadly accident, but an off duty pilot riding in the cockpit knew how to disable the mouth functioning flight control system, which likely push the nose of the plane down on Tuesday. Transportation secretary, Elaine Chao ordered an audit. Of the certification process for Boeing seven thirty seven Maxine aircraft in Texas a massive fire at a petrochemical storage terminal in deer park near Houston has reportedly been extinguished in the early hours of Wednesday morning after raging since Sunday releasing a thick plume of smoke that blanketed large swaths of the surrounding area. Nearby schools were closed earlier this week and residents were advised to limit outside exposure Brian Paris at the Sierra Club said, quote, we're living through an ongoing petrochemical disaster. And the government responses that the poison we can smell and taste for our selves isn't harming our health, and our children officials need to be honest with the public IT seen needs to be held accountable and the regional public officials need to take a serious look at the chemical disaster risk that exists along the Houston ship channel and prioritize the health and wellbeing of surrounding communities para said the chair and CEO of Warner Brothers. Kevin Suji her resign. Signed earlier this week after he was alleged to have used his position to get acting roles for a woman he was having an affair with Suji hoorah had been recently promoted to oversee children's programming at Warner media despite apparent knowledge of his fair with an actress who worked for a studio AT and T required Warner media last year for eighty five billion dollars. West Virginia's attorney general filed a lawsuit against the state's Roman Catholic diocese in a former high ranking Bishop Tuesday for quote knowingly employing pedophile 's west Virginia's accusing the church of violating consumer protection law by failing to conduct proper background checks on new hires that would be in contact with children at schools and camps and for covering up sexual abuse. By citing consumer protection, the case will be civil rather than criminal, which legal experts say could be more successful due to strict statutes of limitations on sexual crimes. Meanwhile, a Catholic diocese and Mississippi has released a list of thirty seven clergy it believes guilty of sexual crimes against. Miners cases date back to nineteen thirty nine include children as young as five and more news about the Catholic church. Pope Francis has rejected the resignation of French cardinal Philippe, Barbara who was found guilty of failing to report allegations of sexual abuse against boy scouts in his diocese in the eighties. Nineties Barbara Han will instead temporarily step aside, a San Francisco jury found month centers roundup herbicide is a substantial factor in the cancer of California resident Edwin Hardiman, the federal case could have implications for hundreds of others accusing the company of making them sick. Hardiman says he sprayed the widely use Irv aside on his property for almost three decades. Once got the product directly on skin he's been diagnosed with non Hodgkin's lymphoma. The jury will now consider damages booed by Bayer which owns Monsanto in August last year, a state journey awarded a former school groundskeeper nearly three hundred million dollars in damages after Monsanto's ROY. Was found to be responsible for his cancer though. The amount was later reduced to seventy eight million dollars in reproductive rights. News, Mississippi senators have passed the controversial highly restrictive so-called fetal heartbeat law, which bans abortions once fetal heartbeat can be detected. Something typically happens just six weeks into a pregnancy. And before many women even realized they're pregnant the Bill now heads to the desk of Republican governor Phil Bryant who's vowed to sign it. In New Jersey. Faculty at Rutgers University of authorized union leaders to call for a strike is ongoing contract. Negotiations have failed to reach an agreement union. Members are demanding more fulltime faculty equal pay for women. Steph increase staff diversity job protection for librarians and it salary raise for teaching assistance. If the union does decide to strike, it would be a first for faculty graduate employees as in the schools two hundred fifty three year history. Immigrant rights activists Patricia Kumo who was arrested last year after scaling statue of liberty to protest. Family separations was sentenced to five years of probation and two hundred hours of community service Okuma arrived at the New York City court where she was greeted by supporters. She taped her mouth and other parts of her face before entering the courthouse for her ruling Okuma has vowed to continue her activism and protests against Trump immigration policies, and the renowned Nigerian art curator, Oakley and ways or has died at the age of fifty five after a battle with cancer and ways or was the director of the house there Kunst museum in Munich Germany until last year, he was also an art critic educator, editor and writer he worked to put African art and artists center stage as well as women artists in nineteen ninety four he founded in K, a magazine for contemporary African art his exhibit the short century, celebrating African art and independence movements was hailed as a landmark exhibition and ways or was the first African born chief curator of Venice Biennale and was widely credited for bringing political art back to the prestigious. Festival democracy now spoke to oakwood and ways or in Venice in two thousand fifteen. Many many different ways. And I think he's both in the lodge on small ways. One can begin to see the Tilleke of ought not something to be appropriated us propaganda awfully puppies. But two. Learn to teach in to but also say way full the public to learn how to expand the view of the world that was oak way and ways are he died Friday at the age of fifty five in Munich, Germany to see our whole interview with him at the Venice Biennale, you can go to democracy now dot org, and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy. Now democracy now dot or the Warren peace report, I'm Amy Goodman, and Juan Gonzales, welcome to all of our listeners viewers across the country and around the world. We begin today show looking at President Trump's meeting Tuesday with Brazil's far-right, president j air both Sinatra the at the White House. I also know that we're gonna have a fantastic working relationship. We have many views that are similar, and we certainly feel very very true to each other on trade. I think Brazil's relationship with the United States because of our friendship is probably better than it's ever been by far who's days meeting marble sonatas first trip to Washington since he was sworn in as Brazil's president in January. So I'm have describable Sinato as the Trump to tropics. The former military officer has praised Brazil's former military dictatorship which ended thirty three years ago. He's spoken in favor of torture and threatened to destroy imprison or banish, his political opponents human rights groups have expressed alarm over his past comments about women and the LGBT. Community. He wants told a female lawmakers she was too ugly to rape. He also said he would rather hear his son died in a car crash than learned that his son is gay plus an election last year was aided in part by the jailing of his chief opponent, former Brazilian president Lewis and Nacion Lula to Silva who remains in prison. The judge involved in Lula's case is now both Sinatra's Justice minister at the White House ball sonata defended what he called traditional family values and attack the news media. Those news through conclusion may say Brazil and the United States stand side by side in the emphasis to insure liberties in respect to traditional family lifestyles respect to a recruiter against the gender ideology or the politically, correct. At it is end against news elements later, President Trump prays bolts, not as use the phrase fake news that you look at the networks. You look at the news. You look at the news casts. I call it fake news. Very proud to hear the president used the term fake news during his remarks at the White House. President Trump vowed to strengthen economic and military ties with Brazil as I told president Balsam. I also intend to designate Brazil as a major non NATO ally. Or even possibly thinking about it. Maybe NATO ally have to talk to a lot of people, but maybe NATO ally, which will greatly advanced security and cooperation between our countries to leaders also discussed Venezuela and their efforts to topple President Nicolas Maduro Venezuela. President Trump threatened to increase sanctions on Venezuela, which is already facing humanitarian crisis. But we really haven't done the really tough sanctions yet. We can do the tough sanctions and all options are open. So we may be doing that. But we haven't done the toughest sanctions, as you know, to talk more about US Brazil relations, we're joined by buddy Lewis sent Mendonca the director of network for social Justice and human rights in Brazil, visiting scholar at sitting -versity of New York graduate center, welcome back to democracy. Now, it's great to have you with us the significance of the meeting yesterday. Bolsa not as I as president the former. Army captain coming to meet with Trump, and what came out of it. I think that basically Brazil gave out many things in did receive anything back, for example, Bhosle Nado promised that now US since would not need a visa to travel to Brazil anymore, and that won't be the case for Brazilians Comey to the US, which is a big change in foreign policy. Brazil has a history of reciprocity in its foreign policy and independent of the government. It's part of the Brazilian diplomacy. Also Brazilian diplomacy has a history of resolving conflicts through a peaceful process of negotiation and the discourse about Venezuela is very different than how. Brazil has dealt with conflicts in the region historically, as well as being used as an external enemy in lunch, and then Merican countries as way as a way to help elect far, right political leaders that was the case of Bonar in Brazil and also in Colombia, and that's very dangerous because a war in Venezuela will be we'll have a straffic Kalsa quences in the region on the issue that they both talked about this anthem as well as a country that needs humanitarian aid, and the, but that doesn't make any sense, for example, president Maduro offered to buy agree cultural products from Brazil, so they don't need aid from Brazil, also Venezuela's very strategic partner. For Brazil because Brazil exports industrial products Venezuela. So even from a pragmatic perspective. It doesn't make any sense knocked have good relationships with Venezuela in other legend, American countries, historically, Brazil, always had good relationships with such an American countries. I wanted to ask you about the president bolsa autos family connections to militia groups in Brazil. And the the fact that you have a sitting president who's who some of his family members have been connected to groups confernce since the the the killing of mud. Oh, Frankel was linked to one of one of those ships. Can you talk about that is both in Addison flashing both on Addo who was the states legislator in religion, the euro employ. The my the and the Dodder of one of the heads of this militia group that is being accused of killing mighty Frankl. Also, the two suspects who were arrested in connection to the case. One of them is a neighbor of both on that day leave in the very luxurious condo in Rio. They're both and they Burs although his former police officer. So how he was able to to leave in such a expensive condo. That's something to be investigated. Also one of the suspects his daughter. They did one of both on that sense as well. And also natto himself appeared in a photo with one of the suspects and. And the himself and his sons also have praised members of this militia groups in the past so there several connections that to being and they want her dead. I mean, Mario Franco member of the Rio de Janeiro city council human rights, activist LGBTQ activists who challenge police brutality in one of the world's most notorious police forces. Well, she was one of the city council members that was investigating the militia groups they had a very long investigation detailed reports accusing the militia group this militia group in other groups of several crimes. So I think was this sagacious was probably part of the problem that the reason why people want to kill I want to ask you about both an not. Also stances on immigration something with which he has a lot in common with President Trump. Although ironically, he agreed to lower visa restrictions for Americans coming into Brazil, make it easier for Americans to come to Brazil. But at the same time, he's anti immigrant. Could you talk about that? I think that was one of the reasons why we say that he gave many things from but didn't get anything back. And also in in an interview to Fox News his said that immigrants that interview we have a clipper. On monday. President bus our appeared on Fox News and defended President Trump's call to build a wall on the US Mexico border. I would leave those who say what they have to say against the wall. If they remove doors walls from their own homes, and therefore for everyone to come in the vestments words potential immigrants. Do not have good intentions do not intend to do the best too. Good to the US people. So you were saying about. He said that immigrants and the Brazilian immigrants. Come into the US don't have good things. Just so he's attacking Braziliense here in this country and hit got a lot of criticism for this. So it's unthinkable that a head of state with criticize its own people in a foreign country and at the same time break, this tradition of president democracy of reciprocity. Meaning that, you know, now US seats won't need the visit to go to Brazil. But that won't be the case for Brazilians coming here. I wanted to talk about both Sinato son, Ed ward. Oh. I believe he was in the audience when he was meeting with President Trump. Let's go to that moment, by the way, she in the audience the son of the president who has been fantastic. Would you please stand up the job you've done doing a very tough period of time is just fantastic. And I know you father appreciates that I can tell you. Okay. Thank you very much fantastic. Who is what Obama scenario? Well, his being the one that build to relationships with Steve Bannon, at least as far as we know for the reports that we have seen, and there was actually a dinner prior to this meeting days ago in which they've been on was present. And they talk about. The possibility of expanding far right coalition global coalition to to promotes the views that they have it's important to know now that this attraction in Brazil. So extreme that the this group that took power because of the cool the political vacuum that was created after the the parliamentary coup against president Dilma in two thousand sixteen and then the fact that former President Lula was putting jail that is no evidence against him. So you create this political vacuum that opened his space for fry far right candidate. That is connected to the most extreme para-military sectors of the of the military. So now, well, we have this attrition that. We have is the. The military officers in governments are the more moderate forces in power in Brazil. So we have a very extreme situation. I wanted to ask you about the president Bolsonaro stance on climate change. Brazil was supposed to whole host of UN climate summit and pulled out of that the impact the impact of that given the importance of Brazil in terms of the future of our planet when it comes to climate change exactly at that was also surprised because Brazil negotiated being the host of the conference, and then he decided to cancel it. And the this attrition are Matic because he said that he's going to allow for example, Maini exploitation indigenous land, his going to cancel all land rights of indigenous. Spiegel has has strengthened peasant communities and also he the fans expansion of monocropping of Cy in the Amazon, the minister of agriculture is related to the pesticide lobby, and we already are the country that consumes the most amount of pesticides the world than the the allowing pesticides that have been prohibited in other countries for many years, and the now the latest is that he is also negotiating with Trump to allow the US have a spaceship base in comforta-, which is the northeast region. That is also close the Amazon is a very strategic region of the country in the into thousand to that agreement was not approved by congress because it would. Allow military presence of US officers in Brazil, and the Brazilians won't have access to to the space anymore or to have don't even to enter the bays. So it would be the no the US taking over parts of the of Brazilian territory in a region where we have hundreds of afra- Brazilian rural communities, the kill umbrella communities that have the sink rights to land as indigenous people, and it's Reggie a struggle for them to have access to land in that region. As we wrap f we have twenty seconds. But do you think bulletin outta with engage in a military invasion against Venezuela? Topple Madeira, I think that that's some sectors of the military in Brazil oppose that, and that would be catastrophic consequences if they moving to that. So I think it's. Important to have resistance here in this country to understand that did this course above in Israel is very similar to the discourse about Iraq. At the end is about, you know, lying misinformation to promote a war that Eddie, and it's about oil. So well, muddy Louisa Don we want to. Thank you for being with us, director of the network for social Justice and human rights in Brazil when we come back the torture, machine racism and police violence in Chicago, stay with us. Follow. Georgie the follow. Bush. Game. School. What do you do? Big do each sales team. Gee. On. No. Cheese. Two. Chico. Barky the song became an underground protest anthem in the seventies. After it was banned by Brazil's US back military dictatorship, this is democracy. Now. I mean, he Goodman with Lankan solace. But we spend the rest of the hour Chicago where the supreme court has let stand less than seven year prison sentence. Former police officer chasing Van Dyke who was found guilty last year of second degree murder for killing African American teenager Liquan McDonald in two thousand fourteen the annoy supreme court denied a request by the state's attorney general to resentenced Van Dyke on Tuesday and dyke who is white was found. Guilty on sixteen counts of aggravated battery one count for each of the sixteen bullets fired at McDonnell, Illinois, attorney general Kwami role petitioned the state supreme court to vacate Van Dyke second degree murder sends and instead of pose a sentence on each of the sixteen counts if the petition had been granted and DIKO. Faced up to ninety six years in prison. A news Van Dyke will not be resentenced sparked criticism throughout Chicago. The city's mayoral candidates who are both African American women have spoken out against the season. Lori Lightfoot the front runner in the race tweeted, quote, today's ruling the latest disappointment in the Jason Van Dyke sentencing, an sad reminder of the work we must do to create a system that is free of institutional racism and truly hold police accountable for their misconduct, including criminal acts. We cannot build trust between police and the communities they serve if officers who commit crimes are not held to the same standards as others Lightfoot and her opponent, Cook County board, president Toni preckwinkle both have Oude to reform. Chicago's police department of antic- is the First Chicago police officer to be sentenced for an on duty shooting and half. A century decision is the latest in a struggle by activists lawyers journalists to hold the Chicago police department accountable for its long history violence against. The city's citizens particularly African American men much of that history is chronicled in a new book by leading Chicago lawyer fighting police torture, the torture, machine racism and police violence in Chicago exposes decades of corruption and cover ups in the Chicago police department from the murder of Black Panther leader. Fred Hampton, and Mark Clark to the reign of torture. Overseen by commander, Jon Burge under verges rain from nineteen seventy two to ninety one more than two hundred people most of them African American were tortured with tactics, including electric shock and supplication. We're joined now by the book's author Flint Taylor and attorney with people's law office, who's represented survivors of police, torture and Chicago for more than twenty five years, Flint, welcome back to democracy. Now, why did you name your book the torture machine? Well, thank you, Amy and one it's a pleasure to be back with you. I named it the torture machine for two different, but related reasons first of all is rather obvious on the cover the torture machine. That was the electric shock box that the notorious commander, Jon Burge and his men used on many African American suspects over that twenty year period that you just mentioned, but also the torture machine refers to Chicago's machine the notorious political machine often known as the Daley machine and the democratic machine here in the city, which not only countenance this torture, covered it up, but also was involved at the highest levels of the police department, and yes, the state's attorney's office when Richard m Daley was the state's attorney of Cook County were involved in this conspiracy this scandal. Oh that has gone on for so many decades in this city. Well, Flint I congratulate you on the book is really a riveting account. It's almost forensic analysis of decades of collusion between judges politicians prosecutors and the police to basically engage in systemic human rights violation. But you start the book with an incident that for many young people today Matt even part of history, but it's it's not often covered history. And you make the you make the statement that the killing of Fred Hampton, and Mark Clark really was a seminal moment in the development of Chicago in the modern history of Chicago. And I'm wondering if you could I. Give us a sense of why you believe that. So and then we when we're going to do a clip of documentary on from the weather underground about the about that the house where where Fred Hampton was killed. Yes. On December fourth nineteen sixty-nine fourteen. Chicago police officers working under the control of the state's attorney of Cook County at that time Edward Hanrahan rated a west side apartment where Black Panthers were sleeping and one of those Black Panthers was the chairman of the Black Panther party. Fred Hampton, charismatic young leader who was targeted not only by the police. But by it turns out, the FBI and that raid, which was covered up was claimed to be at first shootout was later shown to be total shoot in. And then over the years as we and others were able to litigate case in federal court. We were able to show not only that this was a vicious racist attack on the Panthers in its leadership where two men were killed and many others wounded. But it was part and parcel of the FBI's Cohen tell pro program the counterintelligence program devised and implemented by j GRA Hoover over the years, which in the late sixties targeted the Black Panther party. And specifically of Fred Hampton in Chicago. And in fact, that the raid on the apartment was part of this Cohen, tell pro program, and of course, you make the point in your book that that was the beginning of the resistance masters of the black community that eventually led to the election of Harold Washington as the first black mayor of Chicago, but I wanna turn to the clip from the documentary. The weather underground about the murder of Black Panther. Fred Hampton, fifty years ago on December fourth nineteen sixty-nine this clip begins with Fred Hampton. We always feed the, but they do. How might be? Live. In Chicago today to Black Panthers. Oldest police raided. They panther stronghold. Lise arrived at Fred Hampton's, west side of the four forty five forty. They had a search warrant authorizing them to look free legal. The states attorney's office says that Hampton another man were killed in the fifteen minute gun battle which follow. Peaks Hampton, why he lays their lives. They're onto the people won't can bear to evidence that we have emerged deputy chairman and cold as he lived his visit asleep. Panza Patty organized tours of the apartment that they were in when they were murdered. And I went with a group of people from the national office, which is a couple of blocks away. It was a scene of carnage. It was a scene of war. See this door ridden with bullets not little bullet holes energy. Energy. You walk through a living room into the bedroom. And there's a mattress soaked in his blood. Red wood floor. Anyone who went through that apartment? Any salmon's? The evidence was remaining there could come to only one conclusion that is Fred Hampton twenty one years old and member of militant known militant was murdered in his bid, probably as he lays sleep this blatant act of the ties murder strips fall credibility from law enforcement. In the context of other acts against influx in recent months. It's just an official policy of systematic repression that was one of the documentary the whether on the ground directed by Sam green and Bill Siegel and Flint. The reality was as as you document in your book that this was actually a a direct assassination. And and that was a long struggle on on your part to because you were there you able to get to the house the very day that that happened was killed you talk about this conspiracy to kill one of the the rising radical leaders of the black community. Well, we see now, and it was uncovered during our trial in the seventies. That the Coen tell pro program targeted black liberation organizations and leaders, and they specifically named targets Dr king Stokely Carmichael rap Brown, a lodge Mohammed and pointed to Mel COMEX as well, and as the Panthers rose and became powerful I and Oakland and later in Chicago as you can see from the clip what a charismatic young leader at twenty one. Fred Hampton was Hoover and his people focused on the Black Panther party. And specifically in Chicago on Fred Hampton, they had and formed in the Black Panther party by name of William O'Neil. He sketched out a floor plan that showed we're Hampton would be sleeping. They went to the apartment. They supply. Why that floor plan to the police the FBI did they went to the apartment in the early morning hours and Fred was asleep. It appeared that he had been drugged by O'neil or some other agent, and he was murdered in his bed. Over the years. We uncovered documents that showed this floor plan that was all covered up as well. It showed that the F B I took credit for this rate is part of its Cohen tell pro program, and it showed even that O'neil. After the raid was given by Hoover and the people in Chicago a three hundred dollar bonus. What we later called the thirty pieces of silver for the informed O'neil for setting up the raid. So he was receiving from Hoover a bonus for the success of the raid at the same time. He was serving as a pallbearer in. Fred Hampton's funeral Taylor. You pursued this case civilly for thirteen years. What came out of it? Well, a lot of what I've just mentioned came out of it. The narrative shifted over the years, thanks to the community. Thanks to the Panthers. And thanks to the lawsuit that we filed, and as as you could hear from the clip the position that the police took and they thought they were going to get away with Scot free. Was that this was a shootout that these vicious Black Panthers all of that? Well, because we in the Panthers to that apartment. We were able to show that it was a shoot in. We were able to change the narrative to the fact that it was an unjustified and violent shoot in by the police, but over the years as we were able to join the FBI in the case, we were able to uncover this these F B I documents that showed that yes, it was not just a murder. It was not just a shoot in. But it was an assassination. It was a politic. Assassination straight from Washington and the FBI and slit very shortly. After the the murderer Fred Hampton, you've got involved in another case of the Wilson brothers, and which began the uncovering of the Jon Burge scandal that Logan would take you decades. Really to finally get some measure of Justice. Could you talk about that? The Wilson listen case. Yes. The Wilson case rose in February of nineteen eighty to two white police officers were shot and killed the two black perpetrators had escaped and the city of Chicago under Jane Byrne and police superintendent breeze Zach set out on the most vicious and terroristic manhunt in the history of the city, they terrorized the black community that kicked indoors they dread people out of their houses if they. If they thought that they had some information about the killings, they tortured them, they tortured them with with suffocation. They tortured them with with all kinds of medieval types of torture. They finally found the two people who the eyewitness identified as the persons who were involved in the crime and the person who was identified as the shooter was Andrew Wilson. Andrew Wilson was taken back to the police headquarters on the south side of Chicago. And this notorious commander who at that time was Lieutenant in charge of the manhunt by the name of John Burge lead a torture of Andrew Wilson that included electric-shock with the torture machine that that has mentioned and depicted in my book and suffocation with the bag they handcuffed him across an old rigged. Steam. Radiator and electric-shock him. So that he was burned across his chest. And they also burned him with cigarettes beat him and got a confession from him. And this came out at that time, but nobody really cared. The state's attorney Cook County, Richard Daley was informed specifically by doctor and the police superintendent about this torture, and he chose to do nothing about it. Because he did nothing about it. Burge was able to in the next ten years torture. Another seventy five individuals all African American men and a few years after that Andrew Wilson who had been sentenced to death filed a pro se complain in federal court challenging his torture and and suing Burge that's how we got involved during his trial. The an anonymous police source who we later dubbed as debate. Edge started to give me information that laid out exactly the map of what had happened the systemic nature of the torture. The fact that daily and his surrogates were involved at the police superintendent that the mayor were all involved, and we follow that map, basically for the next twenty thirty years, even as we sit here today to uncover evidence that supported the idea that that this was a systemic torture. This was something that sent people to death row. This was something that that convicted innocent people, and ultimately all of this led to Burgess firing it led to many many years later, his conviction for obstruction of Justice for lying about the torture. And of course, it led to the remarkable reparations. That the city of Chicago granted to the survivors of police, torture and their families here a couple of years ago. Plen- Taylor, we're going to break and then come back to this conversation. We'll also be joined by Lilia Fernandez. This is democracy. Now, Flint Taylor attorney with people's law office known as the PLO has represented survivors of police, torture and Chicago for nearly half a century, his new book, the torture, machine racism and police violence in Chicago when we come back. Lilia Fernandez will join us as well. Stay with us. The universe wakes up by the communist coming. This is democracy. Now, I mean Goodman with one kansallis we continue to look at the long history of police brutality in Chicago, not turning to an often overlooked and under reported issue. Police abuse of Latinos, especially immigrants face police, conflict violence and even killings for decades and have a long history of fighting back against retaliate through community organizing an activist but the violent policing of Latinos has received little news coverage. We're joined now by historian whose chronicled the police mistreatment of Latinos in Chicago Lilia Fernandez is professor of history and Latina studies records university in New Jersey. She's the author of Brown in the windy city Mexicans and Puerto Ricans and postwar Chicago. She also happens to be married to Juan Gonzales still with us, Flint Taylor attorney with people's law office, who's represented survivors police. Tortured Chicago for nearly half a century, his new book, the torture, machine racism and police violence in Chicago, professor Fernandez. It's great to have you with us. Can you talk about how the torture machine dealing with racism and police violence in Chicago the significance of it and the work that you've done highlighting brutality against the Latino community in Chicago in Chicago, so often seen police brutality is a black and white issue. Yes. Thank you so much Amy and one first let me start by commending, Flint Taylor for this really incredible account of decades of fighting against the brutality of the Burj jumper torture machine and trying to seek Justice, particularly for many men who wrongfully convicted on the basis of confessions extracted by torture. But yes, one of the things that a lot of people don't realize I think in the because police abuse and brutality often does get frame within a black and white racial framing is the fact that let those were very frequently the victims of police misconduct abuse brutality throughout these same years. That Flint covers going back to the nineteen sixties when maximum Puerto Ricans fish. Started arriving in the city. I was actually surprised when I started to uncover cases of different Puerto Rican until let's sent Mexican American men who were having, you know, violent counters with police officers, and in fact, for example, the division street riots, which not many people no of which happened in the summer of nineteen sixty six were set off by a white police officer who had shot a young Puerto Rican man named ourselves goose once the community learned of this people started pouring out into the streets. And they did so not because this was unique precedent event. But because people were really fed up as the case with many other urban riots in the nineteen sixties people are really fed up with the repeated mistreatment and abuse tally that the experience at the hands of local law enforcement will to one of the points that you make like Flynn. To comment on this that police corruption and police abuse often go hand in hand and the Chicago police department had a notorious reputation for corruption as as Lilia you mentioned in the book between nineteen seventy two and nineteen eighty two. There were five separate mass arrests of police for corruption including at one point more than fifty cops that were arrested and indicted for corruption Flint, this whole issue of the culture of corruption within urban police departments, especially those that are focused on largely minority communities. Yes. And I want to say that at the same time that we would dealing with the Fred Hampton case that there was the murder the police murder of Magno Rama's in the city of Chicago. Which was the young lords and others step forward to protest very strongly in nineteen sixty nine. So lily is saying is certainly true in what she's written about certainly is very important the corruption of of the Chicago police department goes all the way back to Haymarket. It goes all the way back to Pullman. It goes through the summit deal scandal and the Marquette ten and corruption does go hand in hand with with brutality in violence. Because of course, they've been able to get away with it. It's been part of the culture along with the code of silence along with the systemic racism that is so prevalent in the Chicago police department, and so when you have. Not only the department and its hires higher ups countenancing this being involved in it as well. But you have the prosecutors who looked the other way and who earn volved in it. And then ultimately, you have the judiciary you have the judges, and you have the judges who I've documented in my book who were former prosecutors who who give passes to police officers. Most recently in the Liquan McDonald case, the former prosecutor, the judge who I knew from taking tortured. Confessions of a thirteen year old in case of mine. She acquitted the three officers who covered up the Quan McDonald video and lied about it and lily on the issue of one of the cases that you mentioned didn't happen in Chicago. But in nearby sub the Rolando Cruz case could you talk about that as well 'cause Flint mentions it in his book as well. Share? Right london. Couscous is not one that I v search. Myself. But actually remember being contacted by his attorney whose name I'm forgetting right now, but she was representing him in early nineties when they were trying to get his conviction overturned he had been accused of killing raping and brutally murdering a ten year old girl. He and two other co-defendants the other was at Nonda's and a third man. And he was convicted sent to prison spent ten years in prison, and I remember I was in college at the time and his attorney out to me and asked if I could help bring an exhibit of of his artwork to Harvard University. And I did, but I had no idea at the time the significance of cruises case that it was not just an individual isolated incident. But in fact, that there was this widespread, Pat. Torn- of police abuse, particularly with African Americans, you know, not only in the city, but the whole metropolitan area. The go ahead. Couldn't you talk Lilia about. Not only what's happening with police and Latino community in Chicago, but also dealing with undocumented immigrants and border patrol an ice. Right. I think one of the things that activists are starting to realize is they're making the connections between police abuse and law enforcement brutality against African Americans. And you know, minority communities and urban areas in particular, and the larger, you know, immigration enforcement apparatus that has similarly, you know, committed all kinds of acts of tally in violence historically in the nineteen seventies. For example. There was a huge case which got very little media attention, but which really galvanized the Mexican American community much like the murder of Manuel dramas in may of nineteen sixty nine galvanized the Puerto Rican community, but in seventy two in November that was the shooting. Being eventually, the death of an undocumented immigrant named Mati tho- send the I n s officers conducted raid in the Pilsen neighborhood, which was increasingly Mexican area at that time, and they shot him as they were pursuing him and the police sorry, the community came out in significant numbers marched down to the federal building to protest this to protest, you know, state-sanctioned violence against immigrants against the undocumented specifically against Latinos, more, generally, and the fact that police and other law enforcement agents were doing this with impunity. We're going to end the broadcast, but we're gonna do part two of this discussion with lily Fernandes, professor history and Latina studies records, author Brown, the windy city Mexicans and Puerto Ricans. Most were Chicago and Flint Taylor Turney with people's law assist. New book, the torture, machine racism and police violence in Chicago, very happy birthday to. Tammy war enough. I'll be speaking on Thursday night, March twenty first and Northampton at Smith College and on Sunday at SUNY purchase. You can check our website at democracy now. I mean good we're on. Loss.

Chicago Brazil President Trump president United States Fred Hampton attorney Venezuela Chicago police department Amy Goodman officer murder Trump Brown Flint Taylor Flint Black Panther party Mexico
Charlies Angels, The Good Liar, and Midway

Trailer Junkies Podcast

1:02:14 hr | 1 year ago

Charlies Angels, The Good Liar, and Midway

"Wales vagina dinner where where you only have dreamers in posters to judge you move jim in ten strikeout to answer the age old question when all right here we are were sitting in ten backyard where together we got fire going yeah i mean we have a make dinner with somebody absolute eighty ride episode eighty in ten makes the stop it handy market is right so his thinking i told him i said you know once you get a handy market and you know i'd love to get their go there with you but i wasn't able to because we just gotta kinda late so the main thing with getting over the anti marketing stuff ted decides he's gonna get some like kick ass better know cinnamon coffee roasting hosted stout malted mix settling the thing is barely aged the barely beat bomb sterile age be by say fremont because beer matters yeah beer does matter ted we've been waiting awhile alfred this beer and it's been sitting now we have fired the trolley get warm cracked me cool i wasn't scared of the way some of those wag dark no told us oh is that what the string shore i didn't know that was his foot no that's not what the strings are you serious string broke off right it's just wax inappropriate cut myself gosh a why don't we just do the work were watching get that going okay you star well oh you mean you just start all right so we covered a murder mystery in i dunno like ten weeks ago or some no maybe not that long ago how long ago murder murder mystery yeah i think generally a judge jennifer anniston adam sandler right yeah so what i would say is you watch it yeah we watched it okay yeah sure it was like an hour and what a little over an hour and a half a all right so what is drinking freeman some center other free might be bomb then limited twenty release his coffee cinnamon barrel aged beat by beat oh this one line right all right so luke say it's not often were together buddy all right here's the friends wow that's pretty incredible it's amazing movie when you're in the league at a funny thing yes i would say nine six so specific the civic yeah what do you see a fourteen percent wow okay but the cinnamon and the chocolate you won't even notice snow the cinnamon in the coffee in the there's good thing franks not here fall down again i know some murder mystery yes like i said jennifer anniston quick watch yeah quick watch it was like i think our thirty seven or something you know in the the thing that i got out of it though is it hit all the points of netflix like we always talk about netflix aggregated status and i thinking the hits all the dads rate so in no particular order look we gotta play going overhead so in no particular order it has the french bumbling inspector like so right i speak car chase big boobs lots of money good looking people obviously murder the simple foreigners who like you know they they ask him a question and he's like the race car drivers don't like how were you and he's gonna finish line you know like the simple foreigner like it just it salva datum artists you know so i dunno it was i mean it was fun adam sandler was a little too annoying i think you know you realized movies since what fifty first dates fifty first dates is him in drew barrymore sure white right ever cincinnati original movies done has like it's just a vacation vacation well he wants the travel when he writes it into the yeah you no but but you know but i think the the thing about it though is like a little like i felt like he was punching the clock really you know i felt like he was saying like you know like i really don't wanna be here but i probably signed on some agreement i forgot about so i go in and everything i mean entertaining for sure a the one thing today though so they had the magnum p i ferrari an adam sandlers i got my got you know is that thing like keep things in the wrong so he gets in the right size of exactly so today were driving in elway from from lump poke anand there's this black helicopter by us includes is like oh my god that's a cool helicopters and stuff and it was like the magnum p i helicopter you know like air rules no no no not even smaller adam late the small little magnum p i helicopters the little the little round the little round thing yeah yeah it was so cool and i'm like magnum p i and then the other thing we watch those ant man and the wasp okay we wait i one last question oh sure so mystery they did you know knows a very nice mystery murder mystery history doesn't matter and then and then it it it was also like play on clue rent okay without having i don't know if that's going well i was gonna say did you did you watch game they did you know oh we gotta do that night was really good yeah okay one of the get a comparison of the two okay so watch game night yeah i watch this week and i'll watch murder mystery yeah my friend said he doesn't wanna watch it at all and it kept showing up at the top of his cue and you couldn't find this is the the continue to watch what he was watching oh yeah and then helping us that we were gonna like we were gonna go back and watch like i think we're gonna watch app manners something things were like that man missing kept popping up and one final bite i'll do it you know no but i think it is causing the clue a little bit right so at the end they're like oh well you know 'cause she reads murder mystery novels and then it's like oh well it's you know whatever like the race like okay i won't tell you but will talk about next yeah but it's this guy and then he did it this way this person turned out the lights and then this person did that and then the spurs and he's like you know the kind of like they have to explain exactly how it all went down again even though you watched everything you logic exactly that yeah like this audience the audience is to them right now let me watch sandman was okay i likely originally meant better i knew hunter percentages yeah i do i did prefer what is the name aris the mexican one more story in this is what i liked it i i don't think the story was his good but what i liked was everybody who played their part in the story did his mannerisms so yeah the first one they did oh you might have caught off guard by yeah maybe i was looking for one and then when they got there i was like where here right you know so yeah i think that might have been to because there were like oh so all of a sudden it's like like i've been looking for right now is like okay they're gonna come up with maurice story somewhere it's gotta be it pops up and i'm like oh here we go you know one of those things where now i'm like way into it were before it was like more spur of the moment and i didn't really notice he didn't even know he didn't know what you've you didn't know what to expect the first some other question they have to is so stanley has cameo is always the way i didn't do any research but when was this released per when he passed away in i mean is he still doing these or okay so he's in he's in both captain mark captain marvel an indian okay and then he passed away he passed away before the release of captain marvel so how about you already film this is part of this parts in both is okay because when he came into this one the thing i love the when like you know they're doing other ant man stuff shrinking and getting big thing any said something the sixties who's a great but now it's catching up to me here's something you know it's like he's he's hitting all that acid you know but overall though i i liked it you know i it was again we got over the top it's it's not it doesn't have the same small scope of ant man yeah but i but i think i liked that the same small scope of snow but i think he was in the norm is explosion movie the way these other ones and like i mentioned this last week when you look at marvel movies then you have the one offs like if it's a captain captain america snap manners something they typically are smaller scale but when the whole cruise together that's when the the like look here's nonsense happens anyway that that those were the two a what you're watching main things we watched yeah yeah how about you when you watch and so i watch much this week is the court on monday so oh yeah i mean that's short week gavin had three days here so i've been working really well let me stop really quick one thing about why we don't watch a lot of stuff during the the the work year like i'm off the summer right now you know and i'm doing training and stouffer mountain biking and cetera et cetera but the main thing is now that we don't have to go to work well of course it's still but i don't necessarily have to write and we stay up a little bit later so now we have more time to watch stuff you know we get up a little bit later you know we do all that kind of thing with that it just gives us more time to wake veggie in front of the idiot box well nowadays union panel ray a so that's why we've been watching more stuff lately because i'm break but as far as like you know once august september rules running back at work and stuff then it goes back one showing we you but anyway starting cut yup even the minimal minimal not having having watched anything all my all my hours have been spent a just brainstorming marketing ideas for big cast so for trailer junkies vitriol podcasting oh yeah oh yeah i know ted and ted gets a hold of me today's like what you fever bite podcast which time like i here's on my podcast you see fake i'm thinking looking for something to listen to and i come to find out he's like trying to like market everybody in the in the community you know so you don't watch much then not or anything i watch these trailers that it oh wow man that is shortly after you we rented we rented a upside to watch where we have not had an evening where daughter wasn't watching a harry potter red sox no the library lebron gets you get every week we did a library to yeah yeah we just did a lego and then jogger in some star wars thing i dunno was the second piece no no it was the star wars lego thing and then we have been in the mid way yeah oh you went to midway i don't know how i was thinking midway second 'cause it's the midway right all right let's go charlie's angels so a woman empowerment movie yet they all still look gorgeous is there any conflict the venture there no i don't think so okay i'm just asking or does it minimize empowerment in some way not at all some more everything they rip people you're saying they're too good look it's jasmine you saw the jazz that's what i'm getting at times rain right normal rainfall okay so if you say hey hey you guys are gonna be in the show you gotta get closer to the money okay here's another question deacon a good looking charlie's angels as you had the farah fawcett poster near room and you no i did not know i know i know i totally dead now you know with the with the with the with the hair yeah the feathered hair i did not know younger than you owe call total hey like i say there's gonna be a new show get up the might start working here mumbling agrees with me that it's a woman empowerment movie but they they're all to beautiful beautiful says yes well the point i'm getting out when i say that is there these good looking women yet but okay it's women empowerment but yet they're beautiful so men objectify them to go to the movies to watch them right you know what i mean but it's a question of who's in control of situation if she's come in control of the situation that doesn't mean it's not exploitation oh i see oh so you're looking at being exploitative it's not right okay i i get that and then i do like the gal bosley angle right right you know rather then the fat pudgy guys from back in the day and then they they make a big deal it's elizabeth banks the banks produced and elizabeth banks directed and i think she wrote a two so i think she did a lot of so she had the heavy hand in the so more women empowerment exactly yeah yeah not making genie back in the day right he believed that was twenty years ago two thousand well the the thing that's incredible is like that two thousand which is almost twenty years ago i'm saying the housing was the drew barrymore you crew or more i'm thinking is like two thousand doesn't seem that long ago yet i wanna years ago and then patrick stewart yes so in the original show you never saw charlie he's not charlie is he he's not charlie he's like boswell assistant or something like that i don't i dunno i dunno the hierarchy but the stewart like mr shakespeare so yeah it's like a certain facts yeah exactly and the guys like unassisted bosley i mean come on really you know what he turned down he turned down the role in emerging movie for the piece of shit no no no i'm sorry he was he he accepted that role i'm sorry jordan peele turned it down in quit acting when he was over that design mixed my my jordan peele is offered a pile of poop yes like literally yes and then at that point he's like i'm done isn't actor disgusted i'm only gonna write director yes sir patrick stewart says i'll take it likes to shark hoping wow that's incredible it's incredible more do i mean poop but something that guy is amazing isn't actor though i've heard stories about him like onstage so what would like a tweet jackets like carrying out like macbeth and all this stuff i mean the guy's incredible and an saw him do a fellow nights out he was a fellow and the rest of the cast is black wait what what do you mean he was the rest of the get like as a black people yeah okay african american original version also in be quote unquote more black men in person and they're asking how about you guys come around the mike non serious you keep you keep telling you don't want to hear the show and then you keep shining so it's like this year over year okay one more time okay so any original fellow fellow eight v quote unquote more the black pigmented person the rest of the cast days caucasian occasion okay sir patrick did on fellow at the shakespeare theater in washington dc and i saw it and he was also and he was caucasian and the rest of the calf was a some sort of his skin okay it was a mayday and he said my plato wow well you got the same playbill prophetic will will put the picture where they're still drink any more being we're not making a really really good no just have so i got a little weird said some of mine i mean this thing is like drinking like a chocolate cinnamon milk shake something at fourteen percent we should try you have a just a little said a lot of it so hurled charlie's angels i mean you know it looks cute it looks action pack which one of those movies like whether you're at home in the theaters irrelevant but you're gonna go do it expecting a good time you're going to leave knowing that you watch something that was somewhat fun it just didn't ever you know it's like a ocean's eleven kind of movie or something yeah right like you know i mean you just know it's gonna be a fun movie to watch and then like you finish so you're gonna see it yeah i'm excited to see what food banks has offered to this you know act actioner comedy space okay she's incredibly you know the great comedic writer an actress so it's gonna be amazing amazing ted things is gonna be amazing i mean you're probably right about sorry you choose day right any analogy saying the same thing to go 'cause you get like the five bucks offer something dollars helen income and you know where where do you go because my stock at my cousin frank last tonight and he was saying that on tuesdays he goes wrong if he lives over in westwood right and he goes around the corner from his house and it's like five bucks a night of the ticket and you wonder are amc doesn't on tuesday may have seen really urban edwards now is that words the same museum c a s so i wonder if they when that's true i mean we could do that jack yeah just be like what is you're don't even don't even ask don't even say don't even say do you have just say they know you're the scale night lately i get out hiking captain dust that getting by the sec hitler was not the first you know they wouldn't even bosley the man and a woman can listers imbera brother and sister ising looking stuff up we don't this is not the way role in an off job we don't know we were talking about listeners yell at us hell hell around seeing here are the good liar i have a i am a interesting thing about now there is a good liar i'm gonna say x men represent and because we have magni down professor xavier into trailers nine that's it that's it i thought the same thing earlier line but i was like well okay i wouldn't say you stole my line but we were we were thinking along the same line right because i was like wait a minute we're looking at you know again more marvel stuff but were looking at x men and like you said magneto ending xavier savior right be other side of it too though i love how but helen mirren she cozy internet's the computer service it's like my mama june i was on that end i was looking for you know whatever it is right i'm on that google but you know what she's like oh have you ever dated on that computer service whatever was i'm just like really it's called the internet women my my third bird was every time she want done i was thinking about that documentary now oh yeah i i i'm like thirty there she is but we say we say though this is these old folks you've got mail it was it is a well there's no murder scene you've got now okay sure brooklyn murder this is their murder guy being able to have a guy from the dude in front of a train but you do not pay attention as a child i guess i miss that story is that what you're talking about yeah yeah yeah yeah how how'd you feel like you're why it implies betty pushed in front of the to train but here's what i thought was the most interesting though with the with the end and so when the letters go to read and they wanna show wire right they do it in the almost exact way as how the netflix in comes across really and i watch sounds like oh this is on that no it's not you're you're a you had any pavlovian response to screen but they but what they did so like they showed the the red line and then like the red line kind of like expands in the netflix right right they showed the red line but it expanded into a liar and i was like oh no it's not watch good in in the reason i bring that up is is it that when you see that people are like oh sure i'm gonna go watch netflix it's a no brainer right but now with something like this and you see it you're thinking like you're automatically thinking i'm gonna go see this right and you're like oh it's not netflix all right screw it i'm gonna go see it anyway do you think they're getting people halfway over the hurdle of going to the theater my thinking the fact that it's a might be thinking the factor maybe like i dunno like it's one of those things where like they're collecting the datta you know goes back to what i said about murder mystery rape and murder mystery hits all the points and as you're watching it you know you're gonna do the same thing it'd be like oh it hit that it does it hit that it's all the points and i think what the netflix logo and like spoofing the netflix logo you're hitting the point i dunno the good liar i mean i think it's it looks interesting i i just wanted to say the music and be the videos and be editing and it is amazing like oh i think the trailers right now we watched the show and they can't get called brain games games one of the one of the movie i'm sure they were talking about how the brain placed her son you through lady in town here okay like they showed a clip of i suppose a movie right with no sound yeah lighting journal certainly showed it way like uplifting music in lighting and then they showed it went thriller horror and i think they do the big just reinforces the fact with this trailer like that down to end the lighting and the way they cut it like cool like he's like he seemed genuinely nice guy and then it until the return of well i mean think about it though you're watching any horror film in the scary part oftentimes oftentimes isn't even scary it's just they throw some like loud music get in you jump you know and you're like well like hey hey just watching julianne man just watch it to the end right said that the title i mean i would assume that mag nieto is just he's just live a liar he's yeah he's good at it but i think but i think they're both good at it doesn't feel like hounds good at and yes helen's good at lying because she keeps telling me that the first season of documentary now is seizes fifty so now you know of of course he's lying to me and she's good at it and straight faced i mean come on did you not watch clean when she was i didn't watch so now that everybody has seen the trailer to be american liar no the british wire the wire wire told me about you know when british tell the truth well no even one british why you'd think they're telling the truth they do it with class yeah oh yeah they're just so brilliant just sounds so fantastic year first time there you go yeah i first saw you get a car that dude i don't know it's like almost like it's like you got mailer something that it's true roofing overview of the pip you'll come out thank you thank you and then it is definitely murder mystery agatha christie murder no you know you're so right now agatha christie yeah right there and when he says it this year grant is anna leveraging point like is he trying to find something that makes her vulnerable american mm what can i say water if it were tom hanks meg ryan things were filling in the blanks i couldn't remember tom hanks and make it can you see tom hanks go in and pushing someone in front of a train no but that's getting off the gray any isn't true just say oh what if the person on the train burt did he pushes is the volleyball all all right i'm just saying we still don't really know who that person is an did you really see in face doing approaching no i mean but it's it's certainly implied but you're right i mean it could be definitely applies but yeah i mean it could be but any movie that you think and there's always twist and stuff i mean obviously i gotta come telling channel i like both you must be the first to they come to that that that four bucks taking the day off when he got some midway midway oh wait a minute we were supposed to do midway may well you know we've only done one no we did charlie's angels and the good fire on our on our way now midway should have been another man how do i do editing imagine you're just roll with it just rolling okay so really quick though dennis quaid in this yes i think he knew john neckline i'm brian there wouldn't have been better off with randy quaid i mean it is the director of independence fans or maybe kaneohe man you know he was a pilot now man let's see what their children ran away and then you know the thing though i think that's cool about this is like there's a lot of like you know tour a tour tournament or you know all the pearl harbor type stuff like you know i i have we have we know but you don't you don't really see a lot of the battle of midway well i think the movie i thought he was it was strange distort even though it's called midway when they should pearl harbor maine in the history of movie making you don't see a lot of midway okay that's what i meant by that yeah there's the battle of midway right midway airport in chicago goggle is named after the battle of midway all right i'm gonna look at little trivia for you fact check that movie about a long wait is this ship skip the island the mid way which i guess midway oh that's a good question now see i thought it would be island of midway or the battle of midway the hell which mentally which many ways it so the the the shepherd named after the battle maybe i would assume so already and look it up be a fact checker stormed no no i know there's the uss midway right nosers there's the battle of midway oh you're right it's a battle of midway through the island but i don't know what this this movie's about the battle of midway going on yeah yeah right i think we've been to the ship too many times where's the ship yeah no it's it's the it's the museum wales china is you never around how would you have been made away with a decisive naval battle in the pacific standard see i saw of world war two place between four and seven nineteen forty two midway avenue oh my god me tell yeah come on yeah on that just darrow is well the judge and that's too loud liking cut that out that is that that is the you are the hitching yeah so the one thing i did like about the trailer and i'm sure obviously you're gonna see the movie you look at the c g i why and you're looking down from like the top of the hill onto the harbor and you see the the smoked explosions you know the the japanese zeros coming in shooting dropping torpedoes tito's the whole thing right and you see that happening i think it really like it's so lifelike it's not black and white footage right you know i mean which obviously is the real deal but it's it's so lifelike like that it's like damn man i'm like they're in this thing but i mean did you did you like pearl harbor the michael bay movie was that the one where it's ben affleck yeah i would i i'm fifty fifty on it i love yeah i'm fifty fifty on it i loved it i loved let's just try try try yeah you know i think so i liked the director well here's the thing like i liked the movie but then when they did the the doolittle little rated in you know you know doolittle raid was right i'll just not and say okay that's when they found tokyo right they bumped tokyo and then they had to ditch it in the well they ditched it you know and and then but you know midway meaning halfway through the mid way her the way of a lot of men between white i'll be at the plant execution yeah i just say this is no longer working for act we my no longer has some doolittle raid and then they ditched it as you know like i dunno here okay here's my issue with a lot of war movies and so the mel gibson in man that is like that is like florence casualties of war something like how we are so it wasn't about the weather so we were soldiers so the mel gibson we were soldiers or the problem that i have with that movie in the problem that they have with a lot of war movies to include the pearl harbor movie would ben affleck is anytime someone dies or something profound this happening somebody in the movie has the statement meant that is like just ten my life i love her like i don't think people die in war with such profound statement you know and that's like the issue apple depictions of war is like anytime something impactful happens there's like a profound statement by a character well i mean i think i do i do agree that like sometimes you over drama disaster traumatized yeah drama that the dramatization and and you know it can seem fake but i think the slower something happens the more more believable it is you know like when when a gym very ryan when the doctor show you the nose is bleeding out of his liver yeah like it's a slow motion gas line but then it's why does that sound familiar warmer they about vietnam yeah now that's why slauson why doesn't sound that sounds very familiar to me yeah it's a parents now i know it's i think i said it sounds very familiar but yeah i mean the same thing in stats slow what do you think it really is a slow in real life yeah sometimes i think i think unless you're getting blown to pieces he says i think you draw a lot of people die slow i think the league any active combat you would know i never know what i'm saying though is you're okay you get shot you're dying you're bleeding out and everything there's a battle going on around you and there's mortar shells there shrapnel there's gunfire there's all this stuff do you think people can take the time to be like johnny where do you want me to tell your wife and kids before gone bro well no i mean like i don't think i think like just now dropping bombs all right so him year in the book a sinner oh krakauer yeah yeah i did you remember rob hall calling the base camp and telling him that he wasn't gonna try it anymore the he was giving up yeah news gonna die yeah i wanted them to call his wife so he called his wife in australia wall he's done i remember that yeah he needs his childhood his wife on the phone my ass crying everybody in the base camp is like crying telling him to come down just tried it comes down the line and he knew he had a productive professional knowledge of climbing to say like i get in the water yeah i remember call so i mean to me that is very true lines of what you're talking okay i okay okay hold on here however ted i couldn't agree more with that comparison however it is a slow moment in one's life when you are so low on a mountain dying versus a battle raging around you right it differ is definitely different but i i'm not like focus at that point that's why i talked about the same her ryan because it seems right right and they are gathered around him you know they're bc and he's just giovanni vc and he's just laying there dying and it's like this touching moment between them and he doesn't he doesn't do the whole mom zinger got but there's a moment there where you're like they're all connected on this very very deep level i think in moments of extreme draft like when they show it in the movie was like charlie brown born and everything else lows down around you and i only is it not that bryce with dying but in those moments when they were talking to us and they were explaining what what's happening in when i was listening to them and i took a breath it it felt like time had slowed and when i joined the heavy we'd like tv or like the bionic man i'm sure a lot of an elderly woman sorry i apologize i think the window carter i apologize lonely people through that a lot right now on the order of the kind of window carter one you're leaving do lying made eye contact with hey he really was wait what were they saying yeah are they speaking english like we're prepping the operating room now it's sort of like i operation hope you have a very good i think they're real time around you and happening obviously in real time but your time is so slow it's because you're calling in the reality of what's happening to you like you know that your life is ending end these are things you need to get out in his last name them yeah no i get that and i mean i know course tonight not the speaker but we were in you know when mike he had his surgery in stuff and then he has like you know what what is it clear it's like the flu but he had like a fever and a higher risk going on in some viruses and they're like well we don't know what it is but we can't release from the hospital his his respiratory so he had you know the white blood cells so they are hoping it wasn't sections south and he's still like if he was thirty one days days old we would send them home with you but because these thirty days old we can't hurt one eight days whatever it was like within a day or two and really are you kidding me wow that it was kind of being see kenny way so it's like so then some sun downright oh well hold on a minute so they're like well we don't know what's going on but if we do a spinal spinal tap annoying and then you and i'm just like it's like being born a pool you know like everything slows down all right and it looks like why are you crazy yeah i mean he wore maybe i don't know who that is but but what i think so is it's like you as the dying person maybe maybe but you're battle buddy guys who were sitting there trying to stop the bleeding or something there just like in the minute i know they're just in focus like the whole scene doesn't slow down you know i mean you're blessed life that's right now right anyway anyway so get back to midway you get back to where we kind of digressed like ridiculous so dying moments i think i dunno where we were down but i definitely think i i agree i liked that moment you do like the movie movie movies okay so you think that having a profound statement in a movie isn't important thing pretty audience it just it capitalized is the feeling of the moment you know regardless of what happens the real life you know v v wise words a kennedy says you know when when it's deep listening to let snow in the show secret secret could see where he's a he's a few people who were asked like what where do you go when you die at kennedy says i dunno where you go when you die but i know the literally behind can feel it in or even one teams yeah yeah it's more important for the living and the people left then for the person who died right so if you look at it in a story telling sort of away regardless of whether or not what's going on in the movie is is true were accurate or anything the writer of the story story is imposing or implying that emotion yeah that this person dying is going to have that this is what they're thinking least what they're thinking this is what's going on in were just going to play play out their final thoughts in the scene as if they're just talking to people will vocalized will vocalizing right okay i see okay i get it i get out by that so overall though i mean midways is something i argue went to war movies i like these photos realism of the young holder that's exactly what i'm talking about it yeah and i think you know the scene it's so funny could this week we did charlie's angels which is two thousand in the pearl harbor is two thousand everyone and i don't know you know as we talked about last week retirement tron legacy and be original tron so it's like this you know twenty plus years so you bring up a question then you know this was like well if you look at indeed eight free example which is nineteen forty four so that was was seventy five years since speedy which would be like seventy nine years since pearl the harbor i don't think it matters from the time of the incident so what you're saying is like the movie comes out like it could be a civil war movie for us is it doesn't matter right when you're tour tour a tour no i'm saying be actual but so i can get right through me andy reid telling of the story is important for the new generation yes true so okay do you think that like course and i've been the pearl harbor and so on and end do you think that it would have ill will on the japanese in today's generation or what what's the purpose of just to keep the story alive or what do you think i dunno i think you have a place in history and then i think you don't whole you know yeah i mean i don't think the germans nuts it you know what i mean is like right right right timing play different time and place so it's like we were in pearl harbor you know when we're on her honeymoon never gonna place we went to and it was probably like i dunno half japanese and he's half american rose a lot of japanese there you know history history right sell my best running german andy her parents like long she lives in germany boarding right okay i both her parents lost their entire families in concentration camps you deserve german jews no they're not but they were jewish sympathize oh are you know do live quite her family do quite her with that time period you know when we moved in prague and we would go to these places specifically doc tile her parents were like they were pretty lost his kids even though we were grown ground people at the time line are serious they're like well if i hit the pits hot and and i have been best friends in college when you're you know you're parents were in the military and they just went tesla's in film school laredo but you guys became friends because you were you're parents were in germany now she and i became friends in college so oh college rivalries in germany in elementary middle school and high school she and i did not meet until college oh wow an offer her hearing it was profoundly this is history we must cheech review some of the world's leading history that took place so the history never heard of what not to do yeah i do i think when you talk about midway i don't personally from my point of view i wouldn't look at it as being xenophobic but i can't speak to the population population yes very asian american pacific islander yeah i know talked about all these weeks if i say i'll tell you what if i miss fire me i'm not i'm not paying attention i'm not paying attention but anyway just to wrap it up the mid way you see midway on this well no i on tuesday i'm now when they come on the you mean like a horrific event of taco tuesdays are you aware that start to say that i saw three movies in one day oh that's watching our weather trailers in one day and say why am i talking john watching these truly today had already knows you owe them check it out so tell us in watching them so that she could have told me later about jackie is so were sitting there we finish up with whatever whatever we're watching aunt manners some other megawatts yeah yeah man and the wasp right you know or maybe it was a murder mystery i don't know which one it was kind of back to back but anyway so then we were on the road to an i hit the home button and they see the movie trailer channel and i said clarissa there's a movie trailers watch like three movies way to movie trailers whatever you click is a real good yeah yes i think it's specifically to like real who's getting paid watching those trailers students that bullshit awesome i gotta get hey i gotta get we gotta get a piece of after reviewing the trailers were watching could do you know i gotta send an email saying referrals podcast is for you how do we how we monitor the city which arranges but not so anyway a movie trailer channel they never told the movie trailer channel that simple anyway anyway all that with the movie trailer channel you watch that show any on a tv movie throws balance you gotta show coming attractions dimensional the trailers that tell me what what is the one you watch remember the comedian chick she was a it was like on revision furry when that was a thing and she would watch these trade which is the canadian woman i remember vision three yeah yeah we got boxy watch boxing yes if you you know no boxing used to be like it was like early o t t like oh boy it was it was like doing back to come like what's it gonna be like pseudo no like first in the marketplace last in the market right it was first in the river it wasn't a spy you know when we were in meanwhile in all this stuff was on like box and you know it was like early days streaming of like tech stuff and all this other stuff in an end again and it goes back like i said it's like first in the marketplace last in the market you know and then like shortly after that like netflix came around and then prime in like you know but like you said they'll pluto and all these other like take one off things you know and then all of a sudden like that went away and then streaming exploded admitted info graphic of like all the streaming services should side and i stopped at thirty but they're still like five more how did i couldn't keep making the info graphic if this then that to watch it will will put her on will put it on the website known that we haven't even discussed apple or somehow i team which now i've watched alive challenger rick cleaver i to observe what do you mean no i do president's typically a similar channel oh i see any say shows all the trailers yeah you know i mean that's the thing like with movie trailers and someone is that these things like dirt everywhere and ever present an i think it's kind of like oh you become a fan of the platformer whatever it is you're you're you're looking at are watching watching an it's kind of like a school a neighbor type thing it's not that siskel a neighborhood are great it's that their opinions aligned with your opinion so you continue to watch much right i remember watching siskel neighborhood as a kid and be like you guys are more on local here in chicago they were back then you had the tribune in the sun times right yeah the to chicago paper the opening sequence exactly exactly oh no i watch them all the time i know i thought he was a genius like oh i i couldn't agree more i think i agreed with uber you know so nervous time and then he became my taste of movies in that's exactly my point is he becomes you're taste of movies as opposed to like there's all kinds of movie critics out there and you could like agree or disagree in indiana this song just opinion i said it had all the time i must have these worst taste in movies the his movies that are ten by the cracks i love them so for me i'll reid murray's i'll look trailers but i don't care review the latest news like when you were a rotten tomatoes something i'm glad that for like malik i were in do things right when boy but the so were why shouldn't have been washed and they're showing scenes from that raise him you know them the enemy from the fifties the jane byrne okay yeah black and white with the show and and i'm like oh my god says she's like what the heck is that him and i'm like oh that was like my favorite movie is you it'd be terrible fifty size fired him terrible fifty sides i newish godzilla that would stand by their critics and hasn't had very good bachmann monsters although though we enjoyed it's good fox often six that lick their about godzilla all these shows and clips from old godzilla movies and i'm thinking who's childhood does not include old got right right right right yeah it's true but you know i mean the i'm getting at is like you said a rotten tomatoes the twenty them has probably rotten tomatoes those ten you know and i'm like i movies amazing but the point i'm getting at is like it goes back to when you think about like marvel has i don't know what a hundred fifty million in the first twenty four hours a play i know i'll get hate mail but like that doesn't mean it's good you know that's what it means a lot of people watched it andy you believe the netflix numbers i i dunno i never saw netflix numbers so netflix only talked to a movie theater like high a viewer where do they get their numbers from though internally they have their own okay okay let me back up were they sharing their numbers they only show the numbers if they wanna share so when when bird box did gang busters they show the number when bander snatch gangbusters they share the number yeah when mitt murder mystery the beginning busters they show the number and i wonder then they said well why you're only cherry picking early shea numbers when you wanna show the numbers why should we believe you when we when we should leave you yeah i mean yeah it's like you could say whatever you want you you have no accountability you know when you do a quick search of like i am because you were talking this murder mystery so one of the first hits back says network murder mystery i'm sandler jennifer aniston's eating good but it was a he felt so that's it so regardless of how many how many views he's a he's a quality he good or not they're sharing the quantitative datta the number of eyes on screen yeah well what what else are you gonna read it on though right well how do they know the people replays that's the thing i did or did they get in it exactly yeah you're like ten minutes later you turn it off what counts is you i know you're very metrics netflix how about we get out of here we've been thirty million people just closed out that oh if you is that a lot right who knows seem yeah i mean certainly million accounts right they can't even tell me netflix says thirty million people's yeah okay they're eating pizza man for we get out of here before we got here google how many people you'd the last episode of mash and the last episode of cheers that's oh yeah yeah we'll see what the numbers are and then whatever that is compare will compare because mashes as a specially was back in the day like right in the infancy the sea of cable and all that stuff like the biggest viewing at that point yeah you know i mean a three year old war was like fifteen years a hundred sixteen million ferment i need my amen aired on cbs weather center but you gotta have trained eight twenty eighteen will last for seinfeld last night sixty five million i was thinking like eighty million sold on while she's looking at up what's your opinion of the last episode of seinfeld a lot of people don't like it i like it when you when you have it in the pantheon of final episode it's not like the last season of lost which kind of let us down it's not like the last episode of the sopranos which kind of ended flat you know what i mean it had its own you reconcile the tough with what i liked about the last season and i couldn't i i i agree with you what i liked about the last season is that it showed the four of them the astles that they right right sensually everybody came back to testify how off all these people are and that's what i like i think the writing of it was trying to do that whole like the second half of the existence of seinfeld so what's tried approved a new audience did you shouldn't like these people suffering in eleven seasons six of the seasons with that they're jerks i think i think so i know isn't that archie bunker mainly cheers eight point four million so there's a web hey daddy that show jam v top ten muslim national number one matches number one hundred sixty five hundred in by hunter here's number two at eighty that's what i'm saying yeah so seinfeld was four seventy six seventy six what did i say sixty or sixty five eighty they in in seventy prices right ruled by why did you say i see one guy yeah i did a that's number eight it's forty points to a man and a lot less tv's hustled back then to kill her sure for sure all right well now that we know the last show in one thing on all my god what am i gonna side south on i think financial times there a wall street this week yeah who had purchased purchase the rights for seinfeld knows nike ads on top of that recre the sentence oh no in new york city as they instagram destination you go to new york wow hey to walk through the sense and when they do this shit when you do a piece on it we should not be like oh you know what this airplane raw there my

wales adam sandler franks netflix ted murder jennifer anniston luke fourteen percent twenty years one day seventy five years seventy nine years twenty four hours thirty one days one eight days fifteen years ten minutes thirty days three days
Super Tuesday Recap: And Then There Were Two

Hacks on Tap with David Axelrod and Mike Murphy

52:05 min | 8 months ago

Super Tuesday Recap: And Then There Were Two

"A chair tax on tap with David Axelrod and Mike Murphy. Hey Acts Murphy here so excited we can talk all about the new resolves. We were going through here two days ago on very super Tuesday but I thought we could make a little news because I think I have found the macguffin. I think I've found the secret reason that Joe Biden came back from the dead and one we. We got a team of mathematicians at the University of Southern California. We pulled them out of the rocket lab and we got the Cray supercomputer fired up when we look at every single veritable of every single candidate. Yes their performance and guess what we found out? We found the determining factor. If you don't do the X. Files you literally combatants dead in surge out of nowhere who become runner the Democratic nomination. So it's the curse of death my friend if that must be thank you. I appreciate landscapes back to send them back to the rocket lounge way so I apologize to our listeners. We would have been on yesterday the day after Super Tuesday but we were busy burning all the old recordings of Downplaying Joe Biden's chances over what? What was that man? Have you ever seen your you know? We're a bunch of old codger. I've never ever seen anything like well. My soul on Tuesday I would say with. Of course the benefit of an eraser machine and Hindsight but seriously you know we both been at this. A while and there has been a pattern in the past and the old pattern. Was You breakthrough early? You ride a media wave if you can operate calls her and you sir forward less on advertising and money but more on success in the early states which is why people spend so much time and money in the early state so you know the guy who did. The most of that was mayor. Pete who came out of nowhere to win Iowa but he had that lightning bolt reading any credit or press attention for them. And then amy usurped. What looked like a big impressive media? Wave coming win in New Hampshire and then the media got a little bit hustled by Bloomberg. Who was a hypothetical candidacy? There was no voting involved but they saw the money and he got a lot of that media. Let's just the media. I mean it was polls as it was polling is well the media gotTa Hustle by polls. Yeah Yeah but the media's as we both know always more interested in polling numbers than anything else is kind of a weakness of the system. I used to joke around allowed. Fire ahead a red Chinese intelligence. I spent all my time. Bribing media pollsters. Because you totally can jerk Washington opinion around every every single day but anyway to get to my point then Joe who had a base his relationship for which I think he owes some thanks to President Obama and some tremendous thanks. Jim Clyburn with the African American Voting Block in South Carolina which showed up by the time the others had kind of been strangled out of money and Joe. Who was dead. Got That fifty thousand volt shock so this was just different than the past. Although you can't draw parallels is you know better than anybody. The two thousand eight You know another race where if you can split white voters and have strong strong African American support you do tend to do well in the Democratic nomination process so I think there's a new map going forward. That will be less about Iowa and New Hampshire more about a nationalized vote and blocks particularly African Americans. And maybe the Latino vote will become that you know homogeneous eventually The give the nomination. Okay everybody. That's it good night. Thanks for tuning. Sorry that was a little long no I I. I agree with With what you're saying. Let's let's let's take apart so let's do a little autopsy on how this all happened and then let's talk about What it means first of all. If you could trace a set of events the overarching thing I think is a really really do want to beat Donald Trump. I think Democrats are very focused on that Biden. Was The guy who they thought early could do that. He had a huge advantage. In that regard he started looking not very formidable and and and he was sinking After his After his Poor showings in in Iowa. New Hampshire then came the data And Nevada made a huge difference in two ways one is Bloomberg had to step out from behind the commercials at that debate Elizabeth. Warren eviscerated him He the the air went out of his very very expensive balloon. and then Bernie Sanders ran away with Nevada. And you'd think well that should have been a key success. No what it did was completely Hannah. Scary completely panic. Democrats who feared Bernie Sanders didn't support. Bernie Sanders worried about Bernie Sanders ability to win and they looked around and all of a sudden Joe Biden started looking better and they just needed some sign that he could do this. then come. South Carolina Biden had a decent debate in South Carolina. But also he got the endorsement of Congressman Jim Clyburn which turns out to be one of the few endorsements that one can confer or the few people can confirm endorsement in this country and actually command a measurable effect. I think he probably doubled. Biden's a lead in South Carolina also had this extraordinary moment in South Carolina when a man talked about his wife who had been killed in the mother Emmanuel Shooting in his empathy Was in full display. It was Biden at his best. We've talked about that last week. And and then all this wave of people dropping out in his favor. You know one thing as you'll remember with a great deal of anguish back to two thousand and Sixteen. Republicans didn't do was consolidate around a candidate and to take down. Trump cancelled. Trump ends up winning the nomination with less than the majority of Republican voters behind him. Democrats did unify a mayor Pete Star at the mayor. Pete dropped out door. I by AMY closure dropped out endorsed Biden Beto O'Rourke showed up on the stage in Texas and endorsed Biden. All of a sudden Biden looked like a safe harbor So in addition to everything that you said which is the he did do well with with Waitz one whites everywhere but Vermont in the aggregate. He did do well with rural conservative. Whites were Bernie had been strong for years ago. He dominated fifty six to seventeen among African Americans. And He. He did well. Enough among Hispanics in the states where that mattered. So now it's a whole different deal man. Yes yeah and I look I. I agree with your run through. I just add one more thing which is Biden deserves credit for his resilience and for a few of those moments of South Carolina and for cultivating that long trusted relationship with Jim. Clyburn is the new Mayor Daley but on election night I think he forgot to think. The HUGE TITANIC FORCE AND. I I just say this tongue in cheek of not burn no absolutely because a lot of organizing force of the wind. Kurds was not burn. He between that South Carolina African American voting block and just hanging in there even when there was barely Paul's became that guy as you said the others consolidated quickly. And so you know we found that something we have also said here. That Bernie has a bit of a ceiling was true. And so now you know as the guy especially a. Bloomberg getting out. He's a pretty strong position. Although I'll keep saying there was a reason. Joe Lost some of those early primaries. It didn't have African American voters in them to other white candidate so now operation by two point Oh has to continue in full swing kind of speed. Their operation up to the opportunity that they they clearly have. There are a lot of reasons to believe that he's on a good path. Now and Bernie Sanders. People are not going to be happy when they hear me. Say the next thing but they should remember that I was saying I was named saying Joe Biden and he took off like a rocket. So this harbinger that get in on that. I predicted Bernie can never win Bernie's collapsing. So I'll talk like there. But there are so many signs that should be worrisome to Bernie Sanders and the biggest one is how much he's underperforming where he wasn't two thousand sixteen even in Vermont. What he was in the in the fifties in terms of vote he got eighty six percent in two thousand and sixteen in his home state. And a lot of this I think is a measurement of how much flow to him as a result of antipathy to Hillary Clinton. And you know. They're going to try and replicate that now intern. Biden into an exemplar of a failed establishment. Status Quo Bernie signal very strongly that he's going to go a on the offense there. What's different this time as you have the specter of Donald trump hanging over this whole absolutely absolutely and buy it? Looks like a winner again which that empathy is finally found is who he is and he's got his process message against you know I'm now the winner against trump. It's a strong a bunch of cards to halt Leno. Want to go through a few states here because I think there are a couple of things we can point out. Let's do the right Massachusetts. Can You believe at one Elizabeth Warren Third Place under all the rules of this that we grew up under it is time Elizabeth? It's time to get out. There's no candidacy there. She's going to get herself a primary for Senate. Well I think you know we. We may know by the end. We may know by the end of today. Yeah man by winning. I mean you know go Joko and of course Minnesota where I think amy help but I also think again not not Bernie help to laugh at. That was a win. You know people say well. What did the Buddha judge and closure exits mean if you look at polling in those two states before before those guys got out? Before South Carolina Joe Biden was nowhere. He wasn't in the picture There is absolutely no doubt where you see it in particular Massachusetts is in those suburban areas upscale suburban areas We're close we're we're we're close and particularly Buddha. Judge were were running a their their best And Biden beat sanders soundly. There and not just there but in in in in suburban areas around the country which has been a problem for sanders. He hasn't solved it just as he hasn't solved this problem with African American voters. Yeah no I totally agree but it and even the margins even out here in California. Where there's still a couple of zillion ballots well over a million to count from our mail in system. I will bet dollars to donuts at the last. Huge Chunk of late held absentee ballots. That were mailed member. You just have to post Markham. They don't have to get there in time on Monday on election day or even walked and dropped in those those are going to inch forward a bit for Biden. I doubt it will have a big delegate impact simply because we have this bonus delegates system. Here that you know is is Not Worth a lot of explaining other than if you win a big democratic. Cd like a Pelosi one. He gets seven. Dell's you win a Republican CD. Kevin McCarthy's you get four so Bernie will do well in some of those. What Biden will do well like the Karen Bass district down here in la which African American? So I bet. Biden picks up another point on his margin gets up to twenty six in. California which is a lot better than where he was. I think that actually the thing that saved sanders from more abject. Disaster was early voting. And you could really see it. Yeah you could see it in Texas Where the early vote came in first and he had a significant lead a on Biden and then as the evening wore on and same day voting started reporting the gap closed Biden past him. I'll give you an example. A friend of mine in El Paso home of Beto O'Rourke told me that Biden get seventeen percent of the early vote. That was what reported I. He got thirty nine percent of the same dave old that is a pure measure of the South Carolina and Post South County South Carolina Bounce for Biden so totally what saved Bernie Sanders In Texas from a deeper defeat what saved him in California from an even tighter raise was the fact that many people cast ballots early. And Look. I've been a proponent of early voting because I want to make it as easy as possible for people to vote but we see the downside of it as well. There are millions of people who cast ballots that probably they would not have cast if they had known who was viable. Come Election Day. That is totally right. There were people showing up at Lama. These early voting states I know in California wanting to like recant their ballot and switch. Which once you mail it does not happen. How about poor Mike? Bloomberg I guess poor and Mike Bloomberg or not to two words that you should probably us together you spend upwards of half a billion dollars all you get is American Samoa. Hearty Handshake Anna. Thanks for playing. It's Kinda. Yeah and by the way a northern. Mary ANA is coming up so I hope the Bloomberg guys remember. Turn off their machine. They're GONNA get an invoice for four hundred million more and another delegate so yeah I'll give Bloomberg one consolation prize. He did a Classy Swan dive. You know in terms of two minutes. After this thing happened he was out in behind by. Yeah which was the right way to do it. You know as opposed to going to confirm his advisors for a week and check the bumper sticker supply and all that crap he He took a fastball and got where he should be. Yeah Bloomberg was the most pronounced example of this consolidation affect among Democrats driven by trump. Right right by the way what a horrific week for trump he. The guy buys himself and impeachment trying to find out of the race You saw by the way that the ours in the Congress now said Oh. We're going to dust off the old uh hunter Biden invent very trouble at and had a good day very troubled. Apparently the deep deep deep threatening nature of Hunter Biden's relationships reoccurred to them about two. Am on Wednesday morning and now we're going to have a series of hearings. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out in how people process that But it gets back to the point of again. Joe Is done really well here but JOE needs to up his game for the handle the legacy of what he's winning because some of this were forces these kind of like the guy who was in the In the row boat and the massive tidal wave picked him up and he wet but unvanquished. He wants up twelve hundred miles away the next morning. So yes it's an amazing survival story but it's not a tribute to rowing in. So he's got he's got to get ready. Look no one was harder on them on his campaign. On on the day of the on the day of the South Carolina Primary Jim Clyburn and many others have made this point. He needs to tighten up he needs to augment his campaign. He needs to us he now. Has this incredible array of surrogates and they need to be deployed because Biden snack and be able to carry the ball on his own. And what are the advantages? He has as there's some pretty powerful voices out there now who they can deploy. They have to do that in an organized way. You know what I'd I'd pitch if I were them. I'd put Smart Young Pete. Buddha judge in charge of the campaign who is politically very smart and capable and sends a nice generational message to and I think gets the voters. Joe Isn't getting. I doubt it. But he's got the skill set and he and network to help do Joe 2.0. That is what's needed so I tweeted that and I got a couple of letters stop. You're ruining my life. You know not from him but from other supporters but it would be good it would be in theory in practice the hard thing for anybody you know Anita Dunn there. Now she's capable But you know Biden has a very tight core people around him and this has been true for thirty or more years. I mean his sisters one of them Valerie and And Steve Rochetta's former chief of staff and Ted kauf Manley former interim senator who plays by. Who's been his friend for Forever Mitalent who's brilliant You know a a but but you know their relationship is such that. I don't know how much might can tell Biden Biden has the sort of core of people around him and everybody else to serve in the next ring. And so he's GonNa he's GonNa have to trust people more in. Yeah exactly that and Old-school Paul's are always like that and look for a good friend of mine. I think a lot of them. I think a lot of Donnellan. There's a lot of talent there but they just need to be honest and change their model in a in a fast evolution To be able to exploit this. And that's Hillary. It was hard to get her out of her on. How THAT WORKOUT? So well she built. She built concentric circles around her circle. Right right and that is That is always a little cumbersome thing so this is this is a test but I have to say you know by now As reading this morning he has to. He has to win fifty four percent of the remaining delegates to to get a majority and that didn't seem possible a week ago and what seemed almost certain a week ago was that Bernie Sanders would be a delegate leader and that Biden would be in. The question was how close could Biden? Stick to him now. It looks like Biden could actually achieve a majority of delegates to get fifty four percent of the rest of Sanders would need to get fifty seven. That sounds like a negligible difference. It's really not. It's SIG significant difference. And when you look at the array of of states ahead ackley California Texas were the states were Biden was really going to run. I mean Sanders was really going to run up his numbers. The fact that Biden one Texas and is hanging close in California is really the worst news out of a super Tuesday for standards because from arithmetic standpoint. Not Clear where he's going to pick up from here right. Exactly when you look at that counter you can see that. Biden. It's a better calendar theoretically for Biden Than Bernie and it was funny when we were talking on a after a Sunday after South Carolina. You know the the old conventional wisdom was. Oh Bernie's GONNA rope three hundred delegate lead and we're both suspicious about that and I was saying eighty to one hundred twenty. I think delegate lead and I thought it was going way out on a limb and I think you were kind of in the same place that would be a lot less than three hundred and you know what felt like going out on a limb before Pete on Sunday now looks like way too conservative. And if you look at this counter. I mean people are GonNa say Oh Bernie one Michigan. Which is I think the biggest thing coming up but yeah you WANNA by about eleven votes against Hillary and I think now you've got to give the advantage there to Biden of course Mississippi. The advantage is going to be Biden and Missouri. I would guess the advantages by maybe Washington state for Bernie but next Tuesday looks like more momentum to me unless something huge happens in the race. What what's your take get? No I agree with that. I think everybody's GonNa be watching Michigan. Because it is a midwest industrial state this the argument from Bernie Sanders has been. He's the guy who can carve into these states because he reaches into the white working class communities more readily than other candidates. The fact is that wasn't true on Super Tuesday by the way Gretchen whitmer the governor of Michigan Endorsed Biden today. So the -dorsements parade continues. We will see what that means but And you know something else occurred to me today. Which is Well let's talk. I'll make this point after after the setup a lot was made on election night. About how Little Biden had spent in the Super Tuesday states? What we really what we really saw. And it's not the first time because Donald trump proof the same thing if you can command if you get on an earned media cable TV. Social Media Wave. That completely overwhelms paid media. Only you're on the other side of that in two thousand and sixteen and certainly the Bloomberg folks saw that here that you know that the compression of the schedule from Saturday to Tuesday and you know the huge amount of coverage that Biden. God Was really really important. I wonder a Mike As this sadly as this corona virus thing Ratcheted up how you know how much coverage this race is going to get a moving forward as compared to where we just were. I mean I may be wrong about this but I that's a disadvantage for Bernie Sanders. Yeah because it tends to freeze things in place. I want to hang a lantern on that because we know the model is generally ride the wave and while that was out of favor as I said before in Iowa New Hampshire for various reasons it sure worked in South Carolina Rolling into Super Tuesday where earned media swaps advertising. That's one reason. I always thought the Bloomberg strategy of start late was so hard to do because it's hard to win the Oscar when you're not in the movie and the movie is the big four states in Nevada and South Carolina. This time became that that media generator and that the name. Id that you can build with. Advertising quickly melt away and I think I think that happened to Bloomberg so I'm with you now that we're kind of falling down the stairs here with so many states so quickly. I mean I think we got about nine hundred delegates in the next two Tuesdays. I can't imagine unless Biden has a nuclear level gaffe. Anything happening dramatically upset the race. I mean there might be stories at the margin. That'll that'll you know tip. The North Dakota primary a little more Bernie's way or whatever but I think it's hard to have another moment. Like key. Didn't South Carolina just by the way the the the counters and the other thing I'd say and I'll bet you're gonNA agree with this because we're both media hacks I can't turn on cable. Tv network. I work at the network. You work at An exception we're polluting the airwaves. Or maybe a few other practitioners. All I ever hear for Year is. It's all about the organization troops on the ground so it's massively underrated and yet again it gets disproven. Joe Biden was winning. States barely flew over. Yeah let alone did anything there. But for some reason the process media won't let that go the cynical may say that's why he well in those states but I think that's unfair but the no. Listen I said the other night on. Tv Organization is like the kicking team. It's like the field goal team In a campaign you gotta drive the ball down far enough so that the kicker can actually kick a field goal and and everything else is what drives the you down there. You Organization won't save you. Organization could make the point or two difference between winning and losing right and it's an amplifier it. When you're doing well you do weller. It helps success grow by the way on Bloomberg to wonder how different this race might have been if his people had not joined that debate if they just would not adding until after March third I wonder if his run would have continued It certainly might have been a different picture right now. But that's campaigns man they dare on things that in the moment don't seem as momentous as they will be but that that that is that will go down as a decisive decision that he'll help Joe Biden in his race in his race. Here let me just chime in with that. I think that's true about the debate. But fundamentally as long as a resurgent Biden was in the race off South Carolina Nevada. The curtain was dropped for Bloomberg. Even with a better debate. He might have won a few more votes. He made a big bet. Yeah Billion Dollar Bet on Biden failing by neg zeal exit exit Bloomberg. So let's talk about their strategies. Moving forward Bernie was. Can I erupt you for one? Minute acts I literally have a NEWS FLASH COMING IN ELIZABETH WARREN JUST ANNOUNCED. He's dropping out so she got our memo. And you gotta give her an a plus for fighting. She never gave up. She's a contender and early on. She she did it well but that second. Look at the insurance plan Didn't do it so this was inevitable. She had to do it. She clearly wasn't going anywhere in the race and losing her home state. Badly Was a clear sign of that. But Elizabeth Warren ran a remarkable race when she was written off early. She is a brilliant person. She developed some very very very interesting policy she ran into a buzzsaw call. Bernie Sanders couldn't outmaneuver him for the leadership of the Left. But Elizabeth Warren ran a very good race and everyone should recognize that. Yeah look I thought. At the beginning she had a pretty good stranglehold on the race which she created herself and put herself in a great position to win but that second look on Medicare for all put her on a downward spiral. I think there were some strategic mistakes and she could never quite get out of it sometimes. She was a little too clever cynical by half. I think she was a contender. And I my head tips to anybody with the guts to go get on the ballot for president. So I doubt we've heard the last of Senator Elizabeth Warren. Well we have it because the most important question now is who will. She support moving forward if anyone if she goes with Joe Biden out be tremendous boost for him but signifying a figure from the left. Yeah embracing him If she goes with sanders it could enhance his His his move to broaden his appeal. So we'll wait and see huge point. It's either a real a real signal. That Biden is the person if she goes with him or she goes to Bernie. He's got a new very effective attack. Surrogate just ask Mike Bloomberg. So we're wait to see what happens. so moving forward Bernie. I was about to say about it. Settle as far spacesuit a very clear on election night. I haven't heard that one before how he was going to proceed. He he's getting out the Red Hammer Biden's now the corporate tool and you can tell. He likes Joe. So it's hard for trade. The bankruptcy bill which warrant criticized by non but not lately. Social Security. He's already running. Ads Attacking Biden for suggesting The freezing of social security part of austerity measures in the in the past trade big. You know he's going to go after him on that and being supported by billionaires argument that let's face it may be abetted by spending that. Mayor Bloomberg will be doing in the coming months to help to help Biden. He also did a curious thing which is the day after he got his butt kicked again across the country among African American voters he start running an Obama and words of praise from Obama for Bernie Sanders from. I don't know where and a montage of photos of them together. He is courting a story here because in fact it was true that Bernie Sanders was looking for an opponent. Barack Obama for President Obama in two thousand eleven And he And he you know I mean they they were they worked together and many things they were but they also had deep philosophical differences and sanders made that clear and wanted to primary punt in two thousand eleven so the fact that he's now running Obama ads. It's curious to me and I wonder whether he's going to buy some trouble with curious. The Great Political Word Kid. I find it curious. Well perfect topic for you and Joe to discuss on the X. Files see I'm trying thanks. We buried something on Warren. Apparently no endorsement in her withdrawal is that right. I haven't seen the I haven't seen the details. I just know she's out but you know that's a that is an interesting tell. Yeah Yeah you know speaking of the X. Fight No Pun intended. Bernie's GonNa try to start with Biden you know. Some of those things can cut like social security. What's your view on? How Biden not handle it? Because Bernie has an army of precious millennials. Who you need in the general election. Think JOE IS MR old politics. So you've gotTA somehow slight Bernie down without tear staining the Shaker Vera hipster liberal t shirts at populated army. Because you don't want those pouting voters to to hate you as much as trump what would be your maneuver in the jungles of the Democratic primary to try to pull that off. Because I don't think Joe wants to be a punching bag on social security no but you got be a little careful with Bernie. 'cause you attack his voters. You're buying long-term trouble. I poke out my way through it. I wouldn't get into it. I just say because the fact is nobody really believes that Joe Biden doesn't support social security or believe in social security. Not Just bogart my way through it and say Look I've always supported social security And I WANNA make sure that social security is is strong available abundant for You know for for generations to come and that's a solemn pledge and it's been my work for fifty years you know and let Bernie I mean I would not I would just reassert my commitment. I wouldn't get into well. What what I meant then was out. I was Biden given his instincts. Goes to Goes to defense goes to the defense posture. I would not do that here. That's back to my point about Biden to point out to show little phonetic as Joe will be happy to give it to our speech on his simple historical legislative positions on On Social Security. And why once in a while he and the Republicans thought it was a good idea to slow it down so this is GonNa be a good test. Better Biden March fifteenth. There's a debate on CNN. Presumably everyone will show. They both will show up. It may be the last debate if Biden smart because if the DNC is smart if all they're doing is facilitating Yup Hand to hand combat between the Democrats. That probably doesn't serve the purpose of the of the larger question for you though just quickly on that in terms of DNC politics is. I don't know this in the actual Democratic National Committee those members which is a large and occasionally ungainly organization compared to the Republican National Committee which is smaller and just crazy But on the DEM side how many Bernie people do you think they have on the DNC? That'll put pressure on the leadership for more debates because there could be a politician politics. Yeah because they yeah they could. They could so that'll be you know you'll have to handle that. That's a terrible job chair. Always Hoping Committee so he'll have to. He'll have to navigate that just on the larger point of how by needs to appeal to some of these sanders voters. I have a concern and I've said this publicly About kind of in crushing sanders that you not crush the aspirations of these millions of young people who have responded to his message these kids and I work with them every day. And you do too at a you know you at USC at the University of Chicago. These kids want to change the world and they wanna to ch then they more than wanting to change the world. They feel a sense of urgency about things like climate change about inequality which growing inequality about social injustice You know frankly about the cost of education of a higher education. There are things that they feel a sense of crisis about and they feel like the system has not responded. And that's why they're so They'RE SO RESPONSIVE TO BURN MESSAGE. You don't have to adopt. Bernie's prescriptions. But you should adopt his sense of urgency because these are serious problems and you know so the message that I sent from if I were Biden to these young people is I share your sense of urgency and I share your sense of cause and that 'cause we'll continue and we will We will work with the You know with an urgent need On these things where we're not going to shove them aside. It's really important to I think. Show respect to these young people because they are providing some a moral leadership here In terms of some very very urgent very urgent problems young agree with that. I mean the greatest issue is Bernie has a cause based movement and Joe Biden has a campaign so joe needs to have what the European parties would call a youth effort at. You've campaign which isn't just tactics but it's to adopt the romance of a cause and make sure he's always shows a legitimate you know ear and listening to their concerns. Or He is politics incorporated. He's the man and then after the revolution fizzles out the next step is to just turn away from politics. And that is both morally to get the votes UNITA's president to govern and tactically to get the votes. You need to win a big deal for Joe. So they've got to be careful in how they handle this. I couldn't agree more. And he you know look. I thought the reason. He was so good in South Carolina in that speech that night he won was that he lifted it to a high moral plane. He talked not in sort of you know prosaic terms but in poetic terms about where we as a nation. Mario Cuomo said you campaign in poetry and govern in prose sometimes after all these years of Biden Biden resorts to pros And starts talking about the Legis his legislation and this subsection in that and so on. This is not a time for that. There's a sense of urgency here. That people feel that he needs to capture that and if he does that I think he's going to do well but the bottom line on all this is that He is a reflection of just. How dynamic this system is and you know one thing we've said we have said consistently is what this process requires humility two weeks ago. It looked like sanders was the clear front runner for the nomination and it looked like Donald Trump was sitting in a pretty good spot for reelection. I still think trump is formidable for reelection but look. He bought an impeachment as I said earlier to try and stop Biden. They don't want Biden. If Biden becomes the nominee I think that poses some real problems for Donald Trump. I agree with you but I think trump is L- little more vulnerable because I think the country wants to fire him and a less sticky candidate like. I'm hoping don't know yet. But Hoping Biden two point. Oh can be is is a very good thing for the Democrats very bad thing for Donald Trump. We should talk about the corona virus story which is obviously going to get worse. You know presidential campaigns Turn on things. You can't predict Barack. Obama got elected. I believe between September Fifteenth Two Thousand and eight and note September twenty six. When they had the first presidential debate September fifteenth was the day that Lehman Brothers collapsed and the financial crisis announced itself to America and how he handled that in that moment and how a John McCain handled it was very important and how that race turned out. People are watching president trump right now and how he handles. This is going to have a material effect. The impact on the economy also will But this could be very important and he's discovering that the old playbook may not work against a pandemic yacht. It's a little different opponent. You can't just have hannity come out against science. I agree this could be. And here's one just for you Jane Burn in the snowstorm Yes massive incompetence in issue that matters to people every day. We should set it up for people who aren't yet grappling with the social security issue In their lives Jane Byrne was the Was was a insurgent mayor of Chicago. Challenging Democratic Machine in nineteen seventy nine actually covered that race and She was considered the longest of long shots. And then it snowed for forty straight days in Chicago. And the you know the city that works didn't work right and Trying to clean up the snow couldn't clean up the snow so this is a really tough challenge for trump You can't tell people who are sick. You can't tell people who have lost a loved one that this is fake news. It's not fake news right and it's competence and that's where trump's biggest weaknesses because one. He's trump in two and you can ask anybody ever worked for him and business and to. He is surrounded by in many cases. Real drags or incompetence because real people either won't take the jobber. Trump won't tolerate them so the government is going to be stressed test. A little bit on what it can do. And why don't think it'll be a complete disaster. It's going to be sub par and that's GonNa reflect directly on the PODCASTS. Just at the time that a that a Democrat who you know at least can point to a long history and politics of having an impact and and you know not being incompetent is going to be. Most likely were see the opposition. So it's a bit of a perfect bad storm for the. Let's just add because I know what people are going to say and I and I agree with it. No one should root for failure on this. No one should failure. I hope that's I actually hope trump surprises on the high side. Because there's a lot of fear out there and there's a lot there's a lot of pain and there's GonNa be a lot more and what we really need now is sort of the thing. We don't expect which is a competent response and and truth and facts right the most important thing about a public health crisis and I worked at the White House through some of them. Is You need to let the experts speak. You need to give people the facts they need. You can't minimize This I'll have something say more to say about this last call so I hope they get their act together. Because there's a lot at stake here right and won one silver lining in this. Because we we don't want there to be any more pain than there has to be is one the. Cdc has not been political enough to be on trump's radar screen so it has not been molested by the administration and in many cases the frontline world here is going to be the county and state health departments which reflect a lot of essentially competent governors of both parties around the country. So I think. Luckily it's not all on the president's shoulders He's got some help which is good and as you said I agree. Let the pros do their thing. I I don't. I don't doubt that there are tremendous professionals in the government. I've worked with them on these public health issues. The questions just whether they'll be allowed to do their job and whether they'll be allowed to share news that the president doesn't want share for political reasons that that's going to be very important with that said Be well out there. And now we've got to pay a few bills so let's go to our sponsors all right. That was the magic jingle. It is time for the mail bag. I question from Baabda accent. I what happens to the delegates that a candidate has earned when the candidate drops out. Big Question yet. Is You know. These delegates are pledged And but if a candidate drops out there is a conscience clause in that would allow delegates to To switch their commitments at the convention So for example the Bloomberg delegates if if they if they exercise that they could vote for Biden. The warned delegates could vote for Bernie. But let me just say this. This was a really good question Probably Forty eight hours ago It seems to me that it's much less likely now that we're GonNa have a contested convention and more likely that there's going to be some sort of coalescence around a candidate and that game will have a majority Going into into the convention. I mean like all other predictions gigantic caveat associated with that. But the odds have gone up that you'll have more traditional Convention come and Milwaukee in July yet sure. Looking that way I'll I'll I agree with what you said. I don't know the democratic rules as well. I gotTA look at them. They're all freed in this on a second Palette. If there ever were a second pallet right also on the second pallet peruse that Bernie Sanders supporters helped right you The the super delegates come into play That is the seven hundred or so elected officials and party officials around the country who are essentially ex-officio members of the of the convention. It would be very advantageous for party harmony. If if Joe Biden is the nominee if he doesn't have to rely on super delegates to secure the nomination again I think it is increasingly likely that you're going to have a more conventional convention as it were in a in a first ballot victory for the nominee with everybody dropping out you know. Yeah and that's an important point of the super delegates. Come riding in from the political elite to Smash Bernie because he doesn't make it on the first ballot by one hundred votes That will be as we say in. The business bad optics. I'll just make a footnote from Republican. Land I have not yet studied up on my democratic delegate rules. I'm finishing Daas Kapital I but in the Republican World People Assume. The delegates are loyal to their candidate and a lot of states. The delegate bodies are elected by one process and then the primary tells them how to vote on the first few ballot so back to go back and she history back in the Dole days when I worked for him. We're always worried that a lot of the delegate bodies that were pledged Dole from primary results were actually Pat Robertson people so on a third ballot when they get the vote what they want. They weren't our people so there's some complexities in these open. Conventions about what the delegates hearts and minds versus who went to primary that instructed them to vote a certain way on the first ballot. All right so Allie has a question for you Murphy. Despite what seems like a preponderance of data. That photos are not ideological preferences. Eg voters suggesting that Burns their second choice to Biden or other saying that they want a woman at the top of the ticket while pundits including you guys always revert back to ideology as the guiding principle when discussing scenarios. We're not all pundits old pundits. There's a difference. The truth is off. Voters are unique so some people vote because they like the bumper sticker logo but generally ideology along with age and gender and race. All these things can pull on voters in different ways because it's a human business how they reacted the candidate. We just find. Historically in primaries voters do tend to have more ideological interest indefinite though trump blew that up our thing because he was more of a populist and a conservative and the old rules were the the conservative on the Litmus. Test issues would have an advantage with primary voters. So I think there's some slack in the system I think one thing the punditry world has gotten a bit wrong. This year is the kind of current fascination with gender as a driver of voter behavior. I mean more than half the the voters democratic process so far have been women but if they were voting on gender. Amy wouldn't be out and Elizabeth. Warren wouldn't be getting out today. So voters are more complex and sometimes the template that particularly inexperienced people doing punditry project on that one. I think one thing that needs to be studied as how women react to women can rights and whether there is some gender bias among some segments of of women to a female candidate school up. There's the music it's time for last. Call what he got X. so earlier I talked about how trump was handling the crisis. Last night he went on Sean Hannity's show and Ney said what the World Health Organization said their calculation that there would be a perhaps a three point four percent mortality rate associated with this corona virus. Which is a staggering number in a in a in a disturbing number and trump said. I don't think that's right. I don't believe that I think it's going to be much better than that. And this is what I was talking about. There is no value. You can't spin away a pandemic and Tr what has worked for trump in the past won't work here at he can actually do material damage. He encouraged in that same interview people to go to work his. If they feel sick his experts have said if you feel sick. Do not go to work. Because you'll spread this virus to another hundred people and so this is really serious and this is one you know you. You just pray that Donald Trump can put the country in public health ahead of themselves here and stop trying to spin the facts in a way that aren't warranted. Because there's there's there's real dangerous Jose with that couldn't agree more. Narcissism does not mix of science. The president needs to get out of the way and let the professionals handle it. My last call is just a quick comment on this new kerfuffle between the Democratic leader Chuck Schumer and Chief Justice Roberts of the Supreme Court the Chief Justice on behalf of the institution admonished Schumer for holding a campaign style. Event were invoked. The names of some of the Justices and talked about a pending vote. Schumer has been criticized for that. A politicizing the In a personal way the members of the court Schumer's defense is well trump. Does it all the time and I would say the Senator Schumer? You're you're right on that point but imitating president. Trump is not a step forward for anybody so I think The senator ought a step back and think that well he can say that yes. I'm being as bad as trump. That is not the appropriate way. Let's I think I think humor can do a better job of being more adult than the president and Making him is no step forward. So score me of Roberts on that and I wouldn't mind Robert Standing up for the court against the next time. Trump goes after Elena Kagan or somebody on the left. I agree with everything. You're saying Mike. I just a wish that the chief justice a were as mindful of all of and he has spoken out at times. I mean I give them credit for that. But no one has done more in terms of trying to of under my Undermining traditional integrity than donald trump's rue enough and he deserves to be called on it again and again and again our I brother well onto Ought to Super Tuesday to next week. We've got. We've got a series of Super Tuesday's here Super Tuesday so big. You can't even have it on one Tuesday. It is GONNA be incredible. We've got Idaho Michigan Mississippi Missouri Washington State and we will have the facts from Fargo North Dakota as well next week on another big Tuesday in the presidential race. Thanks for tuning into acts on tap X. Great to chat thanks brother next time

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The Tylenol Murders, Part I

Stuff You Should Know

48:57 min | 1 year ago

The Tylenol Murders, Part I

"Stuffy show is brought to you by our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans. Home is so much more than a house. It's your own little slice of heaven. That's why when you find the perfect place for you and your family, getting a mortgage shouldn't get in the way, a rocket mortgage. They make the home buying process work for you. In fact, they are there with award winning client service and support every step of the way which is why Quicken Loans has helped millions of Americans achieve their dreams of home ownership. And when you're ready to purchase, the home of your dreams, they can help you to visit rocket mortgage dot com slash stuff and take the first step toward the home of your dreams, equal housing lender license, an fifty states and s consumer access dot org number three zero three zero. Hey friends before we get going. We are super excited to announce our true thousand nineteen live tour. Yes. We're still alive. And we're gonna come proper cells up on stage in front of you in cities around the country and Canada. That's right. Everyone tickets go on sale this Friday at ten AM your local time. Wherever these cities are, and we're going to kick things off, and the great city of Chicago, July twenty four th at the Harris theater, followed the next night at the Danforth theater in Toronto Canada on July twenty fifth. Yep. Then we're going to take a month long nap and wake up and on Thursday. August twenty ninth we're going to take ourselves to Boston mass at our beloved Wilbur theatre the next night. We're going to a new city first time ever important main at the state theatre. I'm so excited about that one me, too. And then Chuck, we're going to take a nap for another full month. Wake up again dust ourselves off and go to Orlando Florida for the first time ever, we're going to be at plaza live Yemen. I Florida show, and then we are finishing up that many leg in New Orleans. Yep. Thursday, October tenth at the civic theatre were returning so prepare the city for partying everybody. That's right. And we're going to wrap it up, at least for now at our beloved bell house, in Brooklyn, New York for three shows October twenty third twenty fourth and twenty fifth. Again, folks. Tickets for all these shows go on sale this Friday today. 'em, your local time, and just go to all of these venue, websites for ticketing. Yep. Thank you for coming to see us in advance everybody. We're excited. Welcome to step, you should know a production of I heart radio. How stuff works? Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh thirst. Chuck. There's Josh not meet. There's Chuck guess producer. Josh is back in the house. And there's little Chuck in your pocket. Little elvis. I was just. You got that, right. Oh man. What a great sketch. That was nNcholas cage, isn't it? Yeah. Man. Did you ever? See mandy. Yes. It was terrible. I don't care. What anybody else says? You hate it. Terrible. Terrible movie. Yeah nolan. I talked about it on movie crush. He's seen it like four times thinks it's the best thing ever. Come on people. The love it or hate it now, it's like actually, I was kind of in the middle where you really. Yeah. I mean I told him young Chuck like twenty two year old college, Chuck sure would probably liked it. A lot more. But today, Chuck was kinda like I get it like sure. Sure. Parts of it were fine. Sure to me. Spending an hour doing character development, but not successfully, making you care about the characters and really irked me. Well, you had structural issues. Yeah. That was really the big thing, Alyssa, thought Linus Roache was very, very odd for casting, but his aunt, which was in beanbag guy, cult leader. That was weird very weird. I don't even know him. But he's from law and order, again, like some other stuff. You gotta get into what you're missing out, that's becoming a bit. So. Do we serve recording yet? I think so welcomed everybody the podcast. That's right. So Chuck, we are with this is some true crime stuff for getting into here. That's right. But we feel like we need to set the tone, right? Because this isn't this didn't happen just yesterday this happened way back in nineteen eighty two in Chicago, Illinois in, I remember this man, though. I was like six at the time it was one of my favorite years because of this. The opposite of that. Right, mainly because of movies, all of us. So great about nineteen eighty to look it up, man while I was kind of hoping he played runner. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That was some of the best movies. Do you know I didn't see Bladerunner until I was forty? That's not true. Is it is? Oh, really? Yes. The original the original Bladerunner did you like it? Yeah. It was good. I liked the second one to you like they spent way too much time on character. Yet, and I just did a little poking around about nine hundred eighty two and it was, it was a good year for an eleven year old but it was an uneasy time in America, well for a bunch of awful things happen that year and I don't know if it was any more less than other years. But air flight ninety crashed into into the Potomac river, remember that. No in Washington DC, the plane crash in the reverted hit a bridge. Maybe but those, those like a daring, icy river rescue, really. Yeah. Seventy eight people died, though, that same day a metro train in DC derailed tree people. Geez. February was when Wayne Williams was convicted Gotcha. And that was just the end of a lot of unease. You know for years. Yeah. Klaus bam. Beulah was found guilty of attempted murder of his wife in March. I didn't make it to the end of reversal of fortune. So I honestly didn't know happened to Klaus guilty in June was the murder of Vincent chin, who was a Chinese American who was beaten to death by two men in Michigan thinking he was Japanese and they were like stealing his there oughta work. Oh my God. I know. Right. And then July ninth Pan Am flight seven five nine goes down in Louisiana. Louisiana kills all one hundred forty six people on board, plus, eight more on the ground and then in September early September tough. When I remember planes crashed. Yeah, a lot. Yeah. That never happens now not as much, but yeah, weird that we're recording this in the midst of more plane crash, and then early September was when that paper boy, an Iowa Iowa was kidnapped and never seen again. Johnny gauche? I don't know that one that was the big deal too, because it was, you know, the paper boy, in those this false story about a, a pedophile ring from politicians in that turned out not to be true, but he was never found again. So basically everything that's going on. Today is just a rehash of nineteen eighty two. It sounds like I just remember being about that age and they're just the nightly news, sort of just being a horror show and not politically speaking, you know, like real bad incidences occurring well, yeah. Plane crash, like just about at any age like that'll they'll bring you down. If you see that on the news, for sure. Yeah. Because, you know, when you get on a plane, you think maybe this plane will go down, while I'm on it, and that would be terrible, although I was flying at eleven. So all of those things you just mentioned sweep 'em totally off the table. Because come the end of September of that year, nothing else mattered. But what we're about to talk about now. That's right. Nothing nothing came close to taking the over the national psyche. Like the deaths of seven people beginning on September twenty thousand nine hundred eighty two in Chicago, Illinois yet, in one of the articles are read about this. I mean are we trying to keep it a secret? It's the show title, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think they're gonna have to figure it out. So. Yeah, the Tylenol murders. Yeah. Okay. You like. Oh, no, no. That's the comes up in part to. Oh yeah, this is a two parter as well. So buckling everybody. So I was doing some research, though in a saw one article that said something about, you know, the first domestic terror incident, United States that nobody's ever heard of like what to hasn't heard of this, a millennial wrote that headline. Well, I have to say Josh on the way in here. Yeah. I told them Tylenol murders and he, he goes, what's Tylenol? You will codger. We should probably say, what Tylenol is okay. Yeah, I guess, just in case you are a millennial you've never heard of Tylenol, but Tylenol was and still is an over the counter pain reliever like you have aches and pains. And apparently, what's crazy people would take Tylenol whatever was wrong with them, right? Because now you can go get like you know aspirin. And, and you could get Advil and Aleve. There was no Aleve back then nineties drug, there's way more over the counter pain relievers, now than they were back then back then Tylenol was basically it. Yeah. It's see Dominican, which is different than aspirin. And I think a lot of people just think those are interchangeable, right. With the reason I believe Tylenol became so big is because aspirin up says a lot of people stomachs. Right. Tylenol does not hurts not supposed to. And that's why it came out of nowhere. And just took over the Asper for market. I think by nineteen eighty two. Island all had thirty seven percent of the market. It's pretty good Horner. Yeah. Yeah. Almost half, especially since like some of the other like aspirins have been around since, you know, might teach century. Right. So it makes sense then that when a little girl named Marianne Kellerman complained that she had a sore throat and wasn't feeling too good at, like seven AM on Wednesday, September twenty ninth nineteen eighty to her parents said, just take an extra strength Tylenol and go back to bed man, I sore throat magin, the guilt. Oh, no. He's parents feel well they'll blow it. We haven't said what happens to Marianne Kellerman yet. I think everybody knows yeah. She got up said, I'm sick. He said, take this, the father said he heard her going to the bathroom and close the door. Then heard something drop and went to the door saying a yo can, you're okay, no answer opened the door in there. She is on the floor taken to the hospital, but died. Very quickly. Yeah. Probably was dead when she went to the hospital was pronounced there, and she they suspected. And this is just a little twelve year old girl of middle school girl into Jane Addams middle school. She they think she died of a stroke. That's what they thought happened here. They were just so baffled that they're like, had to have been a stroke. That's the only thing that can come on like this. Yes. So that's seven AM just the day is just beginning in one atrocity is already happened. Yeah. This is a this is a very bad day in the history of Chicago September. Twenty nine hundred eighty two yeah. Absolutely. And it started early. Adam, Janice, who will detail his story, but put a pin in this one, too, because he figures in even more prominently in a minute, but a little bit later that same morning, this gentleman Adam, Janice. He's twenty seven years old and lived in Arlington heights, and other Toco suburb, and he died. And they think. That this is a heart attack. He complained of chest pains after he had driven his daughters. Neighbor home from school said, I'm going to take the day off comes home eats. A little lunch, takes two extra strength Tylenol that he bought from a local drugstore collapses in front of his wife. And by you know, a few minutes, later when the paramedics arrived he was dead. Right. And again, like you said they said, heart attack because he'd been complaining of chest pains, which had nothing to do with it. Right. But just like Marianne Kellerman took an extra strength Tylenol for sore throat. He's hook some extra stream silent offer. Some chest pains. This is just what people did back that. Yeah. And that's what complicated it a little bit. I was that, you know, if you take the Tylenol that means he felt bad already. So obviously, you know they're going to be saying, like, wait a minute chest pains or sprite wrote, like how does that figure in? Yeah. And it didn't. Plus, also, what made the even more baffling is that Marianne Kellerman was twelve in healthy Adam Janus was twenty twenty-seven and healthy. Yeah. And all of a sudden they just dropped. People don't just drop dead. No matter what you see on TV or in the movies or whatever dropping dead inexplicably. A really bizarre thing. Inter a healthy person doesn't happen next. We have a Mary Reiner, same day, same day. This is still all on the same day. She's twenty seven years old. She's feeling a little dizzy, she had just come home from the hospital after having given birth to her fourth kid a couple of days before super super sad. All of these are, obviously, but being a just a brand new mom for the fourth time just so tragic then by three forty five she was so ill. She was rushed back to the hospital and again died very, very quickly. Yeah. And like Adam Jonah's collapsed in front of his wife. She collapsed in front of her young eight year old daughter, one of the children's are and yeah, when she was taken the hospital. They pronounced her dead as well. This is mid afternoon may. Gary McFarland was up next. She was over in the, the suburb of Lombard. And she worked at a Illinois bell phone center where you remember like you go get your phone like the rotary phone. The you know you'd actually lease your phone. I, I wasn't involved in that process, but we had them in our home. Okay. Well, your parents, whenever new that Lakers. They just bought that stuff. No. There was like a store where you go. It's like the phone companies retail store and you ago and be like that pink one. It's like smartphones today, kind of say model kind of. Yeah. I guess so. But this was with a big clunky rotary phone, and you had to pay extra for the extra long court. Well, Mary McFarland worked in one of these stores in it about four o'clock at the Eleanor bell phone center. She was she had a massive headache that just came on out of nowhere. And she went and back and got some extra strength Tylenol out of her purse took a couple of them. And within minutes collapse. In the store. Yes. She was young as well. She was thirty one years old, mother of two and then remember I was talking about Adam Janice, a few minutes ago. His family goes to the hospital. Obviously everyone converges there he passes away in. So the family makes their way home to begin morning and just sort of trying to reconcile, what had just happened his brother Stanley. He was only twenty five and then his wife, Teresa, who was only nineteen are both just overcome in worn out and have headaches. So they're at Adams house. They gotta his medicine cabinet get out the Tylenol the he took completely unknowingly, obviously and Stanley hits the ground foam comes from his mouth, his eyes roll back in his head. Everyone's freaking out. And if you minutes later, his wife collapses, and they call the ambulance by the time the ambulances get there think Stanley died that day. Hey, in Theresa, somehow manage to live a coupla days. Yes. She hung on. I don't know if like her doses lesser what, but, but she, she survived for a couple of days after that. Yeah, I mean, my guess is that there just wasn't as much cyanide in the capsule? She took right? Did I just give something else away? But the so Stanley took his Tylenol first, and then Theresa's occurs, and one of the paramedics noted, like Theresa was the one that called the, the ambulance out to come out for Stanley when they get there. They're, they're both like on the ground. What's going on, in one of the paramedics said everything that was happening to the guy happened to the woman. Like a couple of minutes later, right? Like she was just following him through this process of, like basically systemic organ failure. And this is the same day that the his brother had passed away. Yup. This is about five six hours, six hours after Adam, Janice had died, then finally another his all tough to go through everyone. We almost selected this is our next live show. I'm really glad we could. I mean, can you imagine trying to live in this up with some jokes? I thought the whole time I was like, no, we can do that. But yeah, the more I got into it was like this is probably not good live material, right? We should have a rule of thumb that any story that begins with the death of a twelve. Year old girl, not live show. Material think you're right. So finally, we have Paula prints. Paula Jean prints. This is a couple of days later. This is not the same day. This is on Friday evening. She was a thirty five year old flight attendant, and she was found dead in her apartment after police responded for a welfare check that her sister called in saying, hey, you know, I know she's a flight attendant and all, but no one knows where she has. Can you go check on her welfare checkup and they finally found her and she was gone? Yes. Very, very sad. He was found in her bathroom with a bottle of extra strength. Tylenol still open on the counter. And she they looked into. Her receipts and found that she had purchased it a Wednesday September twenty ninth. That's right. So at the end of this very short span of time in the Chicago area, we have seven people dead. And a feel like that's a good time to take a message break. Yeah. Yeah. No. Hey, Josh, here's a stat for you. Okay. Laid on me there were nearly eight hundred thousand vehicles stolen in the United States in two thousand seventeen wow. This a lot of stolen cars, Chuck. That's right. But it doesn't have to be this way, because of onstar. Yes, I've heard of onstar, everybody's heard of onstar. They actually have a feature and called stolen vehicle slowdown. It's pretty awesome. It gives her specially trained advisers the ability to help locate and actually, remotely slowed down your stolen vehicle. They can even put a block on the engine. That prevents a thief, from restarting it, it's basically saying go no further thief bit. That's really satisfying to the ical theft can come to any town everyone any neighborhood even yours. But with an onstar equipped car, and a paid plan, you can have stolen vehicle slowdown and an adviser ready to help twenty four seven onstar be safe out there on stars available on Chevrolet, Buick GMC and Cadillac requires select paid plan. So reception. GPS. Signal and working electrical system doesn't prevent theft damage or loss. Details on star dot com. Okay. Chuck. So you said cyanide. How did you know that? Because I was eleven years old. And I watched the nightly news. Like I'll eleven year olds just called. Right. Just me and Brokaw, Dan, rather. Yeah. Coppell. Yup. Who else those it Peter Jennings? He came a little later. Richer was he? Yeah, yeah, he came after somebody whelming Cronkite was still around was ear. Was he? I don't know. I don't think so. I was I was going into the news as a kid a little bit. Oh, yeah. I mean, that was that was where you got your news back then. Yeah, you would watch the evening news. It's very strange to think about now. Right. With the with the up to the minute news cycle. So, yeah, I know how much more innocent things were back, then I know. So remove yourself from the benefit of hindsight, or the benefit of Dan rathers insight and put yourself in the shoes of the people in Chicago, right? Yeah. These are five these are seven different deaths. I think from five different townships in the greater Chicago area, including Chicago Paulo prints, the last person to die lived in Chicago. These people aren't talking, these people have no idea. What's going on is just that there were five seven separate baffling deaths? You keep saying five, you want to view fewer people to be dead. Yeah, I do. It's good. My wishes aren't working the. Just so happens that the ambulance paramedics that showed up to attend to marry Marianne, Kellerman, the first girl, the die. They were just logging everything because there was such a baffling thing, and they logged her Tylenol. Yeah. Log is in collected right? Yeah. Took it as evidence to maybe look into who knows your but they took the extra shrink tile and all that she had taken not thinking anything of it. But just basically throwing anything at the wall to see what stuck, I'm sure the dad was, like, you know, she went and took some Tylenol and drop dead. Right. So probably made sense, even though it's just Tylenol to say, like, well, hey, listen, at least take this in. Yes. And that Tylenol that right? You know, because that bottle of Tylenol made its way into the hands of a medical examiner, whose name was Michael Shaffer, and Michael Schaffer tested, the Tylenol, and it was rather surprised to find that some of the capsules had not Tylenol in it. But. Sixty five milligrams of potassium cyanide. Yeah. And it takes about fifty milligrams to kill a healthy adult. Yeah. I mean some of them, I don't think they're all exactly the same. But some of them had been completely emptied of any acetaminophen and completely filled with cyanide with cyanide, right? Yeah. I mean it was it was someone intent on for sure killing people. Yes. Because cyanide is no joke. Now it's a, it's a really really small molecule, and it normally attached to medals outside of the body, which is why you have protests or minerals. I guess which have potassium cyanide, right? When it goes into the body when you ingest, it, however you ingest, it, whether it's from a Tylenol capsule or breathing cyanide gas, like they used to use execute people with the up like they stopped using it for executions because it was such a brutal death. Yeah. It's very cruel painful way to die in the body. It detaches from its its mineral or metal. And it attach to a protein in the body called cited chrome. See oxidise which doesn't sound like it'd be a big problem. But it turns out that, that's about the worst protein that cyanide could attach itself to because we really need cited chrome. See oxidized to breath. Yeah. Basically it I mean this sounds like such a cruel thing because it's just rapid cell death in. It's not like your throat closes up and you can't breathe like you're inhaling oxygen, and you, you are technically taking breaths, but the oxygen is not getting in the cells. No, it's not because that see that cited chrome. See oxidise is what helps transport the oxygen and in allows the oxygen to be used for energy. Yeah. So if the potassium is clinging to it, the oxygen can't it just stays in the bloodstream, and it doesn't get used by the cells. As into your central nervous system is the most oxygen hungry system in your entire body has a lot of work. It's starts to shut down. I your brain and your spinal cord start, shutting down all sorts of things happen, your long start, shutting down your heart. God bless it keeps beating for minutes after the rest of their body shutdown in so you're not. Technically dead. They're not sure exactly how long the pain in excruciating of dying from cyanide lasts, but they think you're probably conscious in aware and freaked out for about a minute, at least in your heart may continue beating for three or four minutes after that. So it's not a pleasant death at all. No, I mean you're you're gasping for air. You're breathing in air, nothing's happening like I said, Stanley, Janice. He was foaming at the mouth, and his eyes rolled back in his head in front of his family. It's just like it's awful, like riding on the floor gasping for air, you're breathing, but it's not doing anything. It's just can't imagine anything more horrifying, right? Because your central nervous system has kind of fallen out of its out of controller rhythm convulsions are usually a, a hallmark of cyanide poisoning. And then he turned bright red at the end of it. Yeah. In a cherry red. They said because when your body has gotten rid of oxygen to your cells in the. Oxygen becomes depleted, your, your skin kinda turns like a rusty brownish red. But because it can't unload that oxygen when you're dead. It stays a bright red in your skin turns bright, red, and then the other real, telltale sign is your breath, will smell bit like almonds. Yeah. I mean not a bit. I mean these bottles, supposedly were really pungent with bitter almond. And unless you know what that means, then you're probably not clued in, you know, like I wouldn't I wouldn't have known I opened a bottle of Tylenol, and it smelled like bitter, almond had probably be like, right. That's nice smell actually. Yeah. I like this Tylenol guess they have an new almond flavor awful, so Michael Shaffer that medical examiner has just realized that this little girl has been poisoned, but he, he knows nothing about these other deaths. Yeah, there's nothing like that. It's not entirely clear, how everything became connected, or. Who connected it? But what I find particularly astonishing is that within just a few hours by that evening by the evening of September. Twenty ninth people were saying there's something up with the Tylenol in these mysterious deaths that have been going on all around Chicago. Yeah. Not. I mean, we'll get into the, the dragnet they cast, but within a few days, they had kind of solved everything, but who did it in how it may have happened who done it, who done? So yeah, very quickly. They figured out the Tylenol, and there are a couple of different stories on, like you said, on who, who was the first person to point this out, one story is that a reporter for the city news bureau in Chicago was doing the reporter thing in doing some deep diving in investigating and called up a deputy coroner and said, hey, I think this is what's happening. They told the police, another story is that to people who didn't know each other came together, independently to let people know one was a fire cap to name Philip Kappa taily. I knew it. I knew you're going to do that. There was like a ninety percent chance. You know why? 'cause we got a lot of support from people that wrote in saying, I'm Italian and I love it. Keep doing it. Right. And only one guy who hated it. But I ran it was fire captain Philip capita leagues. Right. So he here he was his deal his, his mother-in-law. Law was friends with Mary Kellerman. The victim's mother, the first of the little girl, and she said, hey, would you mind looking into this, 'cause I'm friends with this little girl's mom, and it's weird that she dropped dead at twelve and he's a fire captain, and they're all connected to, you know, the police into the medical community. Everybody knows you want something done. Ask a fire captain, I would share because they'll bust into the room with an app. Get everybody's attention. So he's he's investigating. And then there's this. There's a nurse named Helen Jensen, and she I don't do you know why she was so into this case was she just do? No, no, no. She was the public health nurse for Cook County. I believe okay, so she had an official designation to investigate. Yes. But unfortunately, no one would listen to her because this is nine hundred eighty two and she was a nurse. Right. Even though she was like a public health director. She was still a nurse. In people. Winless, turn she recalled in an oral history. I read about this. Yeah, that she was stopping her feet out of frustration saying, like there's something wrong with the Tylenol, the Tylenol is behind all this, and people wouldn't listen to her to supposedly she and Philip. Got together and join forces. Right. And I guess we're able to convince everybody that no there's something wrong with the with the Tylenol and by this time people started talking. Sure. And, you know, the, the idea that Michael Schaffer hit identify Tylenol. I don't know if it was the same day or the day after something like that. But all this is within a span of thirty six forty eight hours taught is really fast said, all of this is going on that the dots were being connected, right? So then what follows is cook county's deputy chief medical examiner. Dr Edmund Donoghue holds, oppressor, I either watch this winter. One of the other ones, like I remember specifically seeing this press conference on the news, probably saw chain burns, that would have been the, the nationwide, when I guess. Yeah. And I was like how the been nationwide, and then looked it up. WGN was a SuperStation starting in nineteen eighty oh, you know, it men so ever. Everybody saw it because WGN could broadcast nationwide by nineteen eighty two. I will watch the cubs games is your head just because it was on that. Was it like that embrace games role? You can, so Dr Donahue has oppressor, a local presser, of course, there is panic initially. Yeah. He's scares the s out of everybody 'cause he comes out of nowhere and says, stop taking the Tylenol. Oh, yeah. Sure. And so anyone, I mean, imagine how many people in Chicago had taken Tylenol within two hours of that press conference. Right. Enter thinking, like a show. I go to the hospital, right? And as a matter of fact, the poison control lines for basically every in every city where somebody saw this started to light up right after that. And people were like I just took Tylenol am I okay? Or gave my kid? Can you imagine? And the what came to be the Pat response was if you are still standing in talking to us. You probably okay. Which is sort of a double edged sword. Right. It's like, don't worry you die. Superfast right. Kind of so just relaxed. So just hold the line for five minutes. Then when he come back and check on Yoon if you're still talking, you're fine. Oh man. All right. So then the Chicago mayor's office gets involved. Like you said, mayor Jane Byrne, she gets says, you know, print a bunch of flyers print them in a bunch of languages, maybe on, Goldenrod and cornflower blue. Sure. Why not really catch people's attention? She had police drive through with loudspeakers on their car, but really saying. Yeah, like, don't take Tylenol reenacting that scene from the blues brother's whether dry I was thinking slacker. That's funny, two different movies. But you remember their driving through in the police car with the loudspeaker talking about their, their show. Yeah, same as slacker, I don't remember. I don't I guess I didn't make the Indus lacquer either. It was in the middle ish. It was no dazed and confused. Just different movies. So they're they're posting flyers cops are driving around blaring it through neighborhoods. And then she has a press conference. She has all Tylenol removed from the Chicago area. She calls for it. Well, sure she didn't go around with their her basket, right? No, I'm not a hundred percent clear. If she was actually able to demand that the Tylenol be removed. I think she was more warning. Yeah. I mean I doubt if there was any law she could invoke, I wonder, though, seems like you would, if there were that I would imagine that's you know, we'll talk about that later. Okay. So the TV and the radio, you know, obviously, everyone picks us up not just in Chicago, or the United States. It goes worldwide. Yeah. And so, you know, there's people in Europe in Asia pulling Tylenol off the shelves. Yeah. So this is a big deal. And there was a lot of attention lavished on this there. A poll that was taken the next month in October. That found that ninety per this was in cities, all over the country that found that ninety percent of respondents were aware of this Tylenol poisoning story. Yeah. Some, some press agency, like a news clipping service said that it's the number of the number of stories, dedicated to it were second only to the number of stories, dedicated the assassination of JFK. That's how big this story became overnight. And again, one of the reasons why is because everybody took Tylenol for everything all the time. That's just what you did. It was just something. Everyone took and that same product was now killing people. So the most chilling part of all this to me, and this is all chilling, maybe the copycat stuff because almost immediately copycat incidences started popping up all over the country. There were two hundred seventy reports a product ham. Bring in the month after thirty six were quote hardcore true tamperings, and that's what's most chilling to me is like there were that many people at least thirty six let's go in the low end thirty six people across the country that wanted to kill people and just saw an idea. And like, oh, that's what I'll do. Now. I should have thought of that myself. I mean that's scary man. Yeah, what's what's scary? But also, infuriating is that there's such terrible self starters that they had to be a copycat murderer in that, right? You know what I'm saying? Sure. It's bad enough that they're trying to kill somebody. Yeah. Randomly kill somebody anonymously killed somebody didn't even think of it themselves on. That is a pathetic murderer. Right. They're pretty pathetic. Put my foot down excedrin extra strength excedrin capsules were found poison with mercuric chloride, and that almost killed a man in Colorado. His name was William sink of it. And he got he had liver and kidney failure, but he did survive this one gets me. So more than one person thought, oh, well, you know, people spray in, like drop things in their eyes and nose up acid in there, so tampered sign X in tampered vise in both turned up after they had burned people with acid chemical burn, up your nose. Unbelievable. Yeah. That's the bad one. So food was also on the list of things being tampered with orange juice. Chocolate milk, very high profile incident with ballpark hotdogs. Yeah. They pulled a million pounds of wieners off the shelves and random through a metal detector. Yeah. Because this was a scare all, you know, the old urban legend of razor blades in Halloween candy. I don't did. They actually find pins and needles and things. Yes. Sure. Yes. Okay. Because I thought that had literally never happened it hadn't. It was an urban legend that became true. Okay. But nothing in, in the. Wieners. No, some boys. I think in Detroit claim to have found razor blades in their ballpark wieners. And like you said, a million pounds were recalled and then the boys were like just kidding. Wow. Yeah. Ballpark? We'll talk about how ballpark was treated after that. But they were put on shoulders and carrying around for how great the handle there. And, you know, there are a lot of hoaxes. There were a lot of tips called in about other tampering, and it had a really like it. If the purpose of this was to induce panic and fear and terror than it absolutely worked. Absolutely should we take another break. I think so, man, we're gonna come back and talk about the investigation. We need to talk about something Chuck. Yes. Constipation abdominal pain and bloating. That's right. Man. You tell yourself. It's not that bad. You take laxatives modify your diet and exercise routine, but thinking about it all the time is frustrating. Yeah, do you find yourself making up excuses instead of admitting to people that you don't wanna go out because you're really worried about leaving home, despite your best efforts to feel better your symptoms? Keep coming back. Is this, right? Yeah, man. At this feels all to relatable, you are not alone. If your gut symptoms return again, and again, and again, you don't know why it may be time to seek help like thirteen million others. You might have a real medical condition called irritable bowel syndrome with. Constipation or. IB. S C. Yup. To get more info about your symptoms, and I be SC go to, oh, my, gut dot info slash podcast and learn about your constipation abdominal pain and bloating. And if you're ready. Out ways to talk to your doctor or access one online. That's owned my gut dot I in oh slash podcast. Okay, chuck. Also want to point this out time magazine, you know, how I'm like super into going back and reading contemporary news articles about an event this one. I mean it's all over the place but time wrote about the copycat incidents back in nineteen eighty two. And they said that the copycats were trying to quote emulate, their demonic euro, the still unknown poisoner, their demonic euro. That's what the journalists from time decided to go with. That's funny. I mean, that seems like a very two thousand nineteen to. Right. This is what I'm saying. I feel like we're reverting back to nineteen eighty two right now. All right. I guess, so after that intro of years, I'm now convinced right? So everybody's freaked out there their whole towns that canceled Halloween because remember this happened like a month before Holloway lean and everyone was very scared about candy tampering because the urban legend chur in some places. It turned out to be true. A self-fulfilling prophecy. They're all these hoaxes. They're all these actual true. Product tampering, copycats people were freaked out and the cops needed to do something and initially these seven different deaths in five different towns in the Chicago area were being treated as five different investigations, that didn't last very long within two days by Friday, by the time mayor burn holds her press conference on WGN. What came to be called the Tylenol task force was formed, all five of those investigations got folded into not just local investigations the FBI the Illinois state police FDA, of course. Yeah, the FDA was involved. The in the whole thing was led by the Illinois district attorney's office, who was the nominal head of the investigation. Yes. So they figured out pretty quickly that, you know, like I said earlier, they cast their dragnet they come up with about a. A fifty mile radius of where all this stuff was bought and sold and go investigate drugstore after drugstore. And they did find more more bad Tylenol still sitting on the shelves. Thankfully, yeah, I, I don't want to skim pass that they found more Tylenol waiting to be bought. That's right. Like just sitting there, like, hey, come by me, within two days of, of these deaths Ness, right? I murder we keep calling him deaths. He's reminders. That's right. And they name their, their case. There's they're always codenames for all these cases, this one ranks pretty low in my opinion. Timers. T. Y. M. U R S short, obviously, for Tylenol murders at the very least the S should have been Z timers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's give it a little flavor. Agreed. So the cops are there was some confusion about how this went down because they're trying to figure out, you know, that happened at the factory did it happened after the factory. What's the supply chain? Like, that's huge. It's like the crux of the investment. Absolutely. Where did the tainting occur? Yeah. So they found out that all of the containers were from lot. Number MC twenty eight eighty which was pushed out an August. Again, this is the end of September. Yep. In states, east Allstate's, east of the Mississippi, plus the Dakotas Nebraska in a bit of Wyoming, ten to touch Ohio Ming for flavor that you're like busy for that mosquitoes flavor. Right. However, they were from different production plants, and they were sold in different drugstores, which is weird. It's tough to wrap your head around that because as yeah, what? Right, but they came from different plants, right? And it turns out Tylenol has also. Really weird convoluted distribution network. I think that's every company. Okay. I have a friend that works in supply chain management. Now, it's like it's still supposedly, they'll, they'll take boxes in open them up in repackage them in smaller boxes and it happens, it like different different companies at different points around the country. It's pretty complicated. It is for from a product from factory to your mouth. Right. Like what happens to kind of everything. Yeah, I would think simplicity would be safer much. You know, probably not cheaper though. You're probably right. So what they finally figured out was, here's what we think happened is this stuff was not tainted at the factory, the stuff was not tainted in the supply chain. But this stuff was tainted it from the store, and then return back to the store. Right. Because these pills were sold in different stores, which is a big one because. Not only could it have been like part of the factory, it could have been one of the local stores distribution centers, where there is somebody messing with it, but since they were sold in jewel food stores in Walgreens and other places to around the Chicago area that didn't make any sense. It couldn't have just been like the jewel distribution center. It also because they were coming from different production plants. It really couldn't have been the production plant or the factory where it came from right? Had to be like you said happening at the stores yet, and there were a lot of initial theories, you know, was it someone who, like a former disgruntled employees of Johnson. And Johnson was it someone was it just a serial killer who just picked Tylenol and wanted to randomly kill people. Right. And this is that's weird. That's a weird idea at the time like now. Yes. Seems normal like yeah, probably sad. But this, but this is two years before the Sanusi dro- McDonald's massacre, which is one of the very. One of the next random killings of people who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is kind of the first of that, but it was still so new and remote in alien that, that's the didn't seem like a realistic idea at the time. Yeah. Some of the other ideas, they thought maybe this was someone that was targeting a specific person, or people, and then randomly poisoned, other people to cover their tracks, one of the weird, one of the weird theories that came out later after and spoiler alert, we now have tamper-proof medicines jer everyone's noticed that was one theory that it was someone who had a financial stake in tamper proof technology. Yeah. I saw something like that, too. I don't think there was ever a ton of credence put into that one. But point is there are a lot. I mean there were flying blind basically because it was just such an unexpected odd random thing. Right. We're basically coming up with kind of any idea. They could think of, but the one that the cops settled on in the one that Johnson and Johnson also settled on because they went back and tested samples from lot MC twenty eighty and found that there was no no, there's no -taining of the of the lot, raise their samples were pure, so the cops and Johnson and Johnson, both decided they settled on what's called the mad poisoner theory. Right. That somebody went around this fifty mile radius in, in the Chicago area in about seven hours, is what the cops calculated it would have taken either bought a bunch of Tylenol and then took it back to their house empoisoned it repackaged it. And then drove around and redistributed it or went from store to store, went in bought some Tylenol. Took it out to the car poisoned, and then repackaged it and brought it back in. But that it was local and it was specific to Chicago. That was the, the mad poisoner theory. And again, why still no one has any idea why it could have been randomly could have been targeting. Somebody it could have been a disgruntle Johnson Johnson employees. But the, the main theory for the Tylenol killings of nineteen eighty two in Chicago is the mad poisoner theory. Yeah. Do you know how they tested that? The rest of that lot, how they got Detective John pinky McFarland, you had the best drug pinky and all of Illinois. And he went around and dip that pinky in touched it to his tongue said, it's good. He's like, I can't feel my face. Right near the guy's a legend. Yeah. He's his pinky is pinky ring is so significant barely lift is finger the only lifted to test drugs. I told you eat funds of jokes. So by mid October. The this is sort of the, the final bit of part, one here. There was another bottle that people that they found another tainted bottle, so crazed. It was purchased on September twenty ninth. So it fit the Bill, and it was a woman who was feeling bad and went to go get that Tylenol. And her sister was like, no. I've got some buffering right here. Just go ahead and take that. And the lady presumably said, well, I really prefer seat him if in, but I guess, I'll take an aspirin Tia her, her sister-in-law saved her by offering her buffering, instead, you believe that he was steps away from dropping dead. At a family gathering. Unbelievable. Yep. That is a good place to stop. Yeah. So that's part, one of the Tylenol murders or timers with an S, we're gonna come back with par to after this. You wanna get in touch with us in, in the meantime, you can go onto stuff, you should know dot com and check out our social links or you can send us a good old fashioned Email hundred eighty two version to stuff podcast. And iheartradio dot. Stuff you should know is production of iheartradio's, how stuff works for more podcasts. My heart radio is the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Tom Chelsea handler. And I'm launching a brand new podcast with iheartradio called life will be the death of me. And I'm gonna talk to all these different people, my BFF Mary McCormack. That's what we should call. My book tour the apology, or great idea. Sorry. Everyone on this whole podcast should be called. It should be called with the orange because of the orange theme of the book Archie. Glad I went to therapy. Life will be the death of me with. Chelsea handler listening subscribe at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Tylenol Chicago Chuck Illinois Josh United States Adam Janice Marianne Kellerman Quicken Loans aspirin New Orleans WGN Stanley Boston Brooklyn Canada Wilbur theatre New York
The Tylenol Murders, Part II

Stuff You Should Know

49:55 min | 1 year ago

The Tylenol Murders, Part II

"They pay buddy. We want to plug in new podcast on our network. And this is from one of our trusted, most endearing colleagues, Alex Alex is the best. And so is this show a federal, yes? So for the show host Alex Williams guides the listener through wasteland of things that were just barely saved or in some cases not saved at all. And what he does he digs into the stuff that's vanishing just before advantages and brings it on the open, and examines it to find like the value in the worth that it has. It's really, really fascinating as far as podcast go. Yeah. It's awesome. I remember Alex turn in the trailer and I was like this is one of the best things of her a long, long time. It's part, history, part, sound collage features interviews with historians collectors and authors. I dare to say if you like ninety nine percent of his bull in this American life and song explorer, you'll love federal, Yep. You're going to love ephemeral and you can listen. Into it on podcasts, the iheartradio app, wherever you listen to podcasts. And you can learn even more about offense at ephemeral. EPA. Ch-. E M, E, R, A, L dot show, way to go Alex. Welcome to step, you should know a production of I heart radio. How stuff works? Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Those Charles, w Chuck Prien through guest, producer Josh over there enough with the pleasantries? Let's get back to Chuck Tylenol murders part to do if you did not listen to the first part in nineteen eighty two seven people were murdered by adjusting Tylenol tainted with cyanide all on the same day. All on the same day America. In much of the world is super freaked out Johnson and Johnson is demand facture and part, one of part, two has the deal with Johnson and Johnson in how they handled this in a public relations, sort of way. Right. Because there were and are a huge company like you said, in the episode one, they held thirty seven percent of the market share which was many hundreds of millions of dollars Tylenol. They're selling every year and that's a nineteen eighty two dollars. Right. Which is like kazillion. Liens now. Right. So it was very big deal for that company. And the way they handled it is taught in colleges. NPR classes all over the world as exactly how to handle a big public relations crisis like this. Like it's literally called a textbook example of how how it's done. Yeah. Correct. They did a good job because as you remember from the last episode, they found out pretty sure early on that this had nothing to do with Johnson and Johnson, right? Like it wasn't in their factory. Wasn't in their supply chain that it happened almost certainly and that it probably happened by some crazed person taking him out of the store, tainting them. Maybe in the store in the parking lot. Then putting the back on the shelf. But Johnson Johnson can't come out on the news and say, hey wasn't us, right? Well, first though in this, this gets overlooked in left out of the, the college business courses in the PR courses, I Johnson and Johnson was. Not in favor of a massive recall jerk. That looks well, it looks good in one way, but bad another. And they actually didn't recall anything until mayor Jane Byrne held her press conference on Friday, calling for a recall of the Tylenol in Chicago and Johnson and Johnson did low face palm. Yes, we're recalling all of the Tylenol in Chicago. Yes, what she said. Right. So by Friday, the thirty first of September thirty one in September was Tober. I, I have no idea. I think it was like Tober I anyway by the Friday, two days after the death. Yeah. Death Johnson and Johnson recalled all Tylenol in Chicago. And that should have been enough to them that was enough. But this PR crisis was so massive in spread so fast. And like we said earlier in part, one became global almost overnight. It. Was not enough. Yeah. So Johnson and Johnson within a week of the deaths recalled every bottle of extra strength Tylenol in the United States, which is worth about one hundred million dollars at the time took it back to their factories and destroyed it. So they say. Yeah. Both Johnson and Johnson. Right. I wonder if one of them was, like, I don't know about this there. One of them said, okay? I'll take all the states west of the Mississippi. North Dakota South Dakota. Take all the other states. That's part, one joke. They even got an award, the public relations society of America, which is a real thing, believe it or not. They awarded them their silver anvil award for how they handle the crisis, the Tylenol poisonings. That's right. And high-grade foods. Remember, we talked about the, the bad wieners in the first episode the ballpark, Franks supposedly had razor blades, but did not right. That's still created a public relations crisis for them. Even though they were just these little jerks in Detroit. And they won the golden envel-, right? Which is one higher than silver because of how they handled the PR crisis brought about by the copycats of the actual Tylenol crisis, which was in fact really brought about by two jerk kids in Detroit. Right. Really not even copycats not the Tylenol crisis. I wonder where those kids today. Probably in the Senate about one of them was the guy who did our, our lighting at our Detroit show. Smoke. Yeah. Guys. We, we did a show in Detroit if years ago and very famously we still use that as the standard bearer for bad crew bad. We had a guy that look like a former Brody for your riot, heap. That was running like a light show basically during the middle of our podcast and like smoke came out. We were like we had to stop the show, almost like dude. What he doing? Yeah. Well, the lighting is so bad your highlighter had turned like Brown and you could get the word. The word and you ask them to stop the show. And you'd ask them to use a different color light and his response because you me was hanging out. And our friend, Chris Bowman was hanging out in the sound with with the guy. Yeah. His response, according to them was want smoke will give them some more smoke and we got some more smoke like smoke machine. Yeah, man. And people ask us why we haven't been back to Detroit. It's a big reason into big reason. The only reason. Okay. So they won the gold naval for the, the Weiner, PR moves, McNeil, consumer products, which is a subsidiary of Johnson and Johnson. They actually make Tylenol. They make the pills again the way this all the supply chain. Works is really come polluted. And like you said, they didn't want to recall Johnson Johnson, everything I wanna kinda take it a little slower. I guess. Well, here they'd found out the drugs are actually fine. Thanks to pinky McFarland. This is a hundred million dollars with stock that they were kind of feeling the pressure to recall its right? So they were kind of reluctant at first, especially if they were convinced that there was nothing wrong with the rest of them. They had no choice. No. Those only way to do it to lose a lot of money in, in favor of future gains. Yeah. But even at the time, a lot of people are like this is for Tylenol. Jer the public is lost faith in Tylenol. So in Tylenol recall. Called thirty one million fifty count bottles of extra strength Tylenol in destroyed it all there is a chance that not only were they losing one hundred million dollars, but that they were losing one hundred billion dollars of a brand that had already lost the, the public trust and would never regain it, so which wasn't true. But yeah, no they didn't necessarily know that still up in the air. So they it was basically thirty one million sacrificial lambs that were killed to show, the public, this Tena Tylenol is gone forever. That's right. Your chances of dying from taking estrogen Tylenol or now gone. You can go back to taking Tylenol now that was one thing that was the big gesture. Yeah. A which is what it amounted to was a gesture on behalf of Johnson Johnson, but they did other stuff too. They started to do things right out of their reluctance, once they finally said there we have to just go with this to save face into win back public trust. They started to do things ROY. Right. Like, including like setting up a hotline, or putting out a hundred thousand dollar reward for information change lead sitting how much they'd lost thirty nine hundred eighty two dollars. Still chump change. It's it is. Yeah. And that remains unclaimed it does. But they but because of all this Johnson and Johnson manage to regain the public trust. And actually. Manage to position itself as a victim. Yeah. In all of this. Like, yes, there were these, which they were been murder victims and Johnson and Johnson. I don't think ever tried to push them out of the spotlight, but they also manage to portray themselves as the victim of a of a mad poisoner who may or may not have something out for them. But either way, their brand was taking huge hit because of this, and they were victim in we're able to generate public sympathy is part of the road to regaining the public trust. Right. Which is why it's taught NPR classes. So we'll take you back to nineteen eighty two. If you're if you weren't around, then or old enough to be taking OTC pills, and pain relievers, OTC is over the counter, by the way. That's right. Okay. You done with OTC yet, you know. So dumb. I love that. You played along the way she was, you could have made me feel stupid move in partners for eleven us. Almost now. Yeah. That'd be one next month or this month. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Unbelievable. So. Not in that way. Okay. So here's how it used to happen. If you wanted to take a pill like a Tylenol you would get your bottle. You would pop it open with your thumb. I, I came in a little box. Sure. But the box wasn't. Even glued shut. Now, you would pop it open with your finger. You would take out the cotton in there and you would take your pill. It was that easy. There was no tamper-proofing. There was no, the cotton was completely superfluous at this time yet cotton originally was introduced to keep Bayer aspirin like the hard tablet. Yeah. From getting crushed and transport. Yeah. And since they started using capsules and other stuff figured out how to strengthen tablets. There was no reason for the cotton any longer. But because consumers expected it still today. You'll find cotton in your your pills. There's no reason for it to be there, except because the companies know that you wanted to be there. It'd be weirded out if there wasn't katainen your pill. I mentioned the cotton lobby had something to do with that, too. Well, they're not they're not complaining though. So big cotton. They should new fancy OTC. Phil should have micro doll in there. Right. It just kills. The pair of me undis- stuff. They fill the these have been worn. So this was a time it was a very innocent time previous to this where you could like and you pointed this out. I remember seeing this grocery stores, like I remember seeing mothers and grocery stores, opening food products, smelling them. Yes. That's what you could do, and then closing it back and putting it back on the shelf, man. I was a little mold in this one. Yeah, this leave it for the next person forget poisoning. Like these could be spitting in this stuff. It was allowed it. That's just the way it was like there was America was innocent enough, that was fine. That's how we live and that sets up this Tylenol poisoning. If really shows how much of a jarring experience, it was Erica. Because all of a sudden, like it's finally sunk in a couple of days, there's something wrong with the Tylenol somebody is gone out of their way to poison the Tylenol in order to randomly kill people. And the reason they were able to do it because it's easy to to get into the Tylenol super Hamer with it put it back in. No one will be any any anymore, the wiser and such Tylenol milk doesn't have anything that, that keeps tamper resistant new. There's orange juice cereal. Neither does cottage cheese. Nothing does, and America for wreaked out in this is the reason why this Tylenol poisonings considered widely the first incident of domestic terrorism in the United States because it was terrorism, pure and simple. America was terrified there petrified not only to take Tylenol or any over the counter medicine. Now there were petrified to drink milk, or give milk to their kids, Paul, prince the flight attendant, who was the last one to die in Chicago. She had a co worker who said like everything tainted. Now, I was afraid to give my kids milk. I was afraid to give my kid cereal if they could get to the tile Tylenol, they can poise. Anything? And that was really emblematic of the, the attitude the shock that everybody went through, and as a result within six weeks. Tylenol said we got this covered. Yeah. And I have a feeling. They did this so fast there had to been this idea in place already, it was I saw reference that it was. And I imagine it was not done because they're like a lot of money. And why why would we bother like it's not like someone's going to poison the medicine. Right. And then that happened. So within six weeks, they had a box. It was actually glued shut. So if your little box had been opened you would be able to tell. Yeah. That was that was part, one of three of this tamper resistant packaging that little plastic seal over the top of the bottle after you open. It are none of the, the plastic is over the cap on the outside of the bottle like plastic foil in then, the, the actual foil was over the mouth of the bottle that you, we all have to poke through now to pull out the cotton in whatever still use cotton. None of that existed until the beginning of nineteen eighty three. So all three of these are put in place within six weeks. Not only that, they said, you know what we're going to introduce the cabinet which everyone knows now. Now, it was we didn't have them back, then, everything was a little capsule, that you could literally pull apart. And you could snort the Thailand, all of you wanted to sure quite sure some people, I'm sure someone did. But the Catholic is a tablet coated with easy to swallow gelatin. It's solid. It's I imagine you could tamper with it. And even even saw with all these things in place. They said nothing tamper-proof, but these measures really went along way to restore the public, you know. Well, like the good feelings about what was going on within about a year. Tylenol Johnson Johnson, manage to win the public's trust back in Tylenol. That's hard to believe a year. It was really fast by also goes to show just how perfectly they did everything from that from the time they committed to it on. Yeah. And I feel like I remember like commercials with CEO's and stuff addressing the public, he became staking care members name on Jeffrey beam shoe brand. Gabby johnson. No. They'll johnson. Yeah. Jimmy johnson? Yes. I this. I can't remember his name, but he Jimmy Johnson, his wife are away from that. But he became a public face. He, he would you know go onto sixty minutes. And in he talked to Dan, rather and Ted Koppel and all those cats like he, he was out there like showing how much the company cared. Yeah. And it had had a huge effect. And then in nineteen eighty three congress got involved. They pass what they dubbed the Tylenol Bill, which basically says, if you do something, like this is now a federal offence few years later in nineteen eighty nine the FDA actually established guidelines for all manufacturers of any product really, to make tamper-proof. Yeah because it wasn't just the OTC manufacturers that, that started doing this. They followed suit very quickly once Tylenol came out with it because the kind of had to if they wanted to keep up with Tylenol. But also, the, the manufacturers of everything, like every product every consumer product started putting their products. Tamper proof packaging to dial soap started coming wrapped in cellophane inside the box the trap, the chemicals in I guess, but also to show like nobody's injected this with lie or something like that. Other lie is used in the making soap, isn't it. Remember my fight club. It's pretty funny someone injected soap into the soap. All right. Let's take another break, and we'll come back and talk a little bit more about the profile of the supposed mad poisoner right after this. Stop. We need to talk about something Chuck. Yes. Constipation abdominal pain and bloating. That's right. Man. You tell yourself. It's not that bad. You take laxatives modify your diet and exercise routine, but thinking about it all the time is frustrating. Yeah, do you find yourself making up excuses instead of admitting to people that you don't wanna go out because you're really worried about leaving home, despite your best efforts to feel better your symptoms? Keep coming back. Is this right Yemen? This feels all to relatable, you are not alone. If your gut symptoms return again, and again, and again, you don't know why it may be time to seek help like thirteen million others. You might have a real medical condition called irritable bowel syndrome with. Constipation or IBS. C. Yup. To get more info about your symptoms, and I SE go to, oh, my, gut dot info slash podcast and learn about your constipation abdominal pain and bloating. And if you're ready find out ways to. Talk to your doctor or excess one online. That's my gut dot I in a faux slash podcast. All right. So this was a very big case at the time obviously. Like we've been saying it was a landmark case. So, of course, you're gonna get psychological profiles, which, you know, we should do wanna profiling actually have we done that. I don't think so it'd be good one, because it always like seems like the trope in movies and TV. But it is kind of like that. No, it is a thing for sure. It's not like they just make this stuff up. But in the end they said, you know, this is probably a man in his twenties thirties, who was sort of Jekyll and Hyde type during the day, he's very ordinary, you could be in the desk, cubicle next to you. And you wouldn't even know it every once in a while us go. Yeah, exactly. But deepen is in the recesses of his brain, everyone. He's plagued with self doubt and has an illusion that a random killing can boost his sense of self worth self worth. Which is just sounds like a straight out of a movie. It's like it's like interesting. I want to be on TV. Yeah. Listen to me. They also speculated in. This is just completely like conjecture was that he had probably already taken his own life after the killings. That was one specific person that yeah, yeah, it was I think like the medical examiner for Cook County. Yeah. He already jumped off the bridge. Don't worry about it. Don't worry everybody. Yeah. Yeah. He just threw that out there. I don't know if it was the calm people or not. But. Or maybe he's throwing his two cents in, but. I think you kind of said it earlier, I don't remember if it was part one or parts of the whole thing's is blurred and become a haze by now. But no one is ever been charged with the Tylenol murders. Yeah, that's the ending. But there has been a lot. There were a lot of suspects that member Tylenol set up a hotline, and this Tylenol task force one hundred forty person strong task force investigating this chasing down leads taking calls on the hotline thousands and thousands of calls that were coming in. They were trying to whittle those down into actual tips that were worth pursuing and out of all of them. They, they deemed twelve hundred tips or twelve hundred leads worth checking out, right. There's a lot of leads for case, even even considering yet one hundred forty people working on and I, I read somewhere that they started out with, like twenty thousand suspects or something like that. And whittled it down to four hundred. Yeah. In sort of the sad, part is, is quickly as they sort of figured a lot of this out and had that hundred and forty person taskforce, they almost just as quickly within a few months, really. Is that like, we don't have the very good chance at finding this person became clear very quickly? Yeah. They whittled that down by the last week about Tober the task force was down to forty people by the end of the year was down to twenty and it was a situation again, in nineteen eighty two where you didn't have security cameras everywhere, you didn't have credit cards and debit cards, creating paper trails. It was a lot easier back then to get away with something like this to, to be completely unknown to walk into a store, maybe slip some Tylenol in your pocket. Go out to the parking lot and come back in and slipping back on the shelf. If he's really easy, you won't even go to the trouble of buying it. Yeah. I guess that's deal in them. Put it back. But you know, people were using cash, if there were cameras in place, they were probably trained on employees. I worked at a golden pantry in college. And the only camera we had was directly above his pointing down at the cash. Register it was a the one elps in in. Elana highway. Alps. No. Okay. The one on the east side college Station Road. I think okay. Yeah. Very interesting job. That's the one where I got job. I needed a job. I got a job at McDonalds, and I showed up took the one hour training video, and they got my uniform number. I went home and I was supposed to show up the next day. And I was like, I can't do it. I can't go work at the colts. And I got the golden pantry job later that day which hey man sure sign me up from golden arches, and the golden pantry a rags to riches story was some beer and cigarettes. Nice pretty great you like one for you for me. Oh, I've never do that. All right. Where was I, I was at golden pantry so the cameras trained on the register they're, they're not? You know, you come and go in a store and in no one even knows in nineteen eighty two. Right. It was up. Nothing to go on most importantly, no motive. That was a big one because remember this is just a Jacqueline Hyde type you'd never expect is probably at the bottom of the Chicago river. Right. Who also is engaged in some senseless. Random killings of people anonymous poisoning killing them. Even shooting it just made zero sense whatsoever. So, like, we said earlier, the cups figured out within about a month within the first month the investigation that this is they were not going to have a break in this case. But that's not to say that they didn't have some suspects. Some people definitely did kinda come to come to the fore, but not many of them. Yeah, but these are really interesting sub stories in and of themselves. Sure the. Guy's name was. Last name Arnold first name, Roger Roger. That's right. I call him Richard. That's all right. But for good reason. Oh, sure. Because you said he was like the Richard jewel of his day. Yeah. The Olympic bomber who was not the bomber right. Who's life was ruined because he basically was implicated as the Olympic bomber right thing happened to this guy. Yeah. He was one of the first name suspects forty nine year old guy. So, so put yourself in the position, okay, the media's going berserk on the story. Everybody hears about it. It's a mad anonymous poisoner and now all of a sudden there's a name and a face associated with who's a suspect. But he's the first person named though. Yeah. It's like people going crazy trying to get to this guy to interview him. Yeah. I have my doubts about this guy. Not that he did that. But there are a lot of Hanky things that they found out about him. Sure. And then how Ol- ended up. Yeah. As you're about to see. So he was a DIY chemist too big. One. There's a big thing, right there, because into chemistry you'll he said, he's jecklin, high type who's probably into chemistry, right? He was a dock hand at jewel foods at a warehouse west of Chicago jewel foods to a couple of different jewel foods or where Tara was bought a grocery store food market, tell checking out so far. So the cops look into him in go to house. He has a book a handbook rather on methods of killing people how to kill people, eight his I don't know if that's the title. Okay. He had five unregistered guns, too big one he admitted to having cyanide once. Yeah, but he said, I threw it out, like at least six months before these murder, he's like, when we're in the murders again, six months before that one. And then his wife said, you know, they're investigating her and interviewing her. She was like you know what actually I did take some Tylenol, and felt really sick and threw up one time. But again, I was it was probably due to overeating, and it was just that once as the fact of podcast. So like he can't blame cops for saying this guy's pretty good lead. Yeah. Because you can kind of start to see like if you add all the other stuff together, and then here about the wife throwing up from Tylenol, we like, could you see this guy like toying with his wife like testing it out on her just enough to make her sick. But none to killer see what happened know see if she would notice who knows right? But the cups thoroughly investigated. This guy and cleared him there. There's not a there's not a person associated with the story that I came across who that thought he had actually think this guy did it didn't find one person who thought Ronal are, are Roger Arnold actually did it. But in very short order, he proved that he was more than capable of murder because six months after he was cleared as a suspect. He was brought in for the murder of somebody else. A guy named John Stanishev statia, stint show to the I'm going to sons Slovak or something. Yeah. He was forty six he was Kogyo computer consultant, and that's saying some in nineteen eighty two. Yeah. Probably so, so here's what happened Arnold, there was this bartender name, or bar owner, Marty Sinclair, who Arnold had thought head initially turned him into the cops in his life, essentially. So he goes to kill who he thinks his mardi Sinclair and it's actually this just. -pletely innocent random guy who gets shot point blank. And so he in fact did kill somebody he did because of what had happened to his life. It was premeditated murder even though it was the wrong person he was definitely he created a an intentional homicide. He killed somebody on purpose mistaken, identity killing, though. Right. And because of this, because it was directly related to the Tylenol poisonings John Stanishev is frequently considered an eighth victim of the Tylenol killing kind of like a preliminary victim, Brian his case. But it is kind of appropriate that he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time victim steak at identity. Yeah. You know, it would have like a slightly different ring to it. If it had been the right guy, the fact that it was the wrong guy dude just happen to be in the wrong bar in the happen to look like the owner. That's just is perfect for this for this saga. Yeah. Wonder. Mardi Sinclair thought about all that. I'll bet he was not very happy really not. But probably also very relieved and probably also guilt. Yeah, I guess there's a touch of that a range of emotions, I would imagine all over the place. So Arnold ended up serving fifteen years of thirty or sentence was released ninety nine and died nine years later. Yup. So Chuck before we go onto the main attraction as far as the suspects go. Yeah. I propose that we take a break agreed. Okay. We'll be right back. Only one can be king long live, the king Chuck tried Godzilla king of the monsters is the next chapter in Warner Brothers, and legendary pictures cinematic, monster verse. Yep. In this epoch new story godzillas pitted against some of the most popular and terrifying monsters in pop culture history, like mothra, Rodin, and godzillas ultimate nemesis. The three headed Ghidora, Chuck will this be the most epic theater experience ever? I think so, man, as the clock runs out autumn. It question is, do we fight to defeat these larger than life monsters? Or do we join Godzilla and hopes of saving our planet me, entire human race, or we have a ton of fun, starring Kyle Chandler Academy Award nominee, VERA, farm, IGA, and Millie, Bobby Brown inner cinema debut Godzilla king of the monsters storms into theaters may thirty first. Chuck. So this dude, there was basically two suspects in this whole case over all these years, basically, to people. And again, no one was ever actually charged with the murders, but this guy came awfully close and his name was James Lewis. Was it? It turns out, it was, but James Lewis came under the attention of this Kaga PD in the Tylenol task force when the letter showed up at Johnson and Johnson headquarters, and it was from allegedly, the Tylenol poisoner the mad poisoner. In the letter, it said, basically, like I've spent fifty dollars so far, and the whole thing is taken me about ten minutes per bottle. And I've already killed seven people. I basically see no reason to stop pay me, one million dollars. And then I will stop the killings and he gave a Bank account number. Right said, wire me this money, very, very presently. No, it's not the right word stupidly. Maybe but is it? No. It's not. So this letter has a New York Post, Mark, but the Bank account is associated with a travel agency in Chicago. And so the cops go okay to seems like it was dropped in our lap. But let's go check it out. And they find the owner of the travel agency that had closed up a gone under and this guy is like, oh my God. You're kidding me. He's like, no. I didn't write this letter, but I can guarantee I can tell you who did is a guy named Robert Richardson. Robert Richardson, turned out was the husband of a woman named Nancy Richardson, who had worked at the travel agency. And when the travel agency went belly up Nancy lost her job, and never got her less paycheck. While rubber Richardson was the type of guy who would fixate on this, right? And was even more. So the type of guy who had write a letter to frame, the owner of the travel agency for the Tylenol murders in retaliation for that last paycheck. He was that kind of dude. Right. As the Cup started sniffing into this, Robert Richardson cat. And they figured out pretty quickly. The rubber Richardson, didn't actually exist that it was actually somebody else, amending James Lewis. Right. So when we joked earlier about is that his real name. And you said it was it was. His name was not Robert Richardson though. That was an alias. So what they found out. Was it Robert Richardson was attacks consultant? He had and this is just a strange ironic twist when he was twenty years old. He tried to take his own life by swallowing aspirin. Thirty six of them. Yeah. So that's just neither here nor there. But it an interesting little side, the fact that, that, like most people don't have that as part of their past. Yeah, it is interesting that it came up. So he had a pretty long rap sheet. He was wanted by postal inspectors for credit card fraud in Kansas City. He was indicted in nineteen seventy eight for and this one is just mind blowing. Yeah. He's indicted for murder after police found remains of one of his former clients in bags in his attic. And he got let loose because it was an illegal search but he, he was caught with the body of one of his clients. Yes dismembered in his attic with no good expert. Nation as far as of ever heard. Yes. Such. Well, what expansion would be good? Well, we're playing poker and doing other right. Juggling swords and. Yeah. So his wife's real name was leeann the one who are the travel agency and went unpaid. They fled Kansas City in December of eighty one. And this was as US, postal. Inspectors were converging on them about this credit card scheme. Right. So they're like. Just bad people. Not the postal inspectors. No, no, go Lewis's. Sure, right. Yeah. So they moved to Chicago. They changed their names to Robert Nancy, Nancy Richardson. He got that job as a tax prepare, but then he was fired after a violent outburst in his office against his co workers. And then she lost her job went unpaid. They left Chicago. And this turns out, this is what got them exonerated from the Tylenol thing is they left Chicago and moved to New York before this happened right before those same month. Right. But if the theory held up that this person went around most likely in one day and did all this stuff, then it couldn't have been them. No in. Here's why. Because the cops are decided that it was done locally and one of the other things that supported that local mad poisoner theory was because the cyanide through the gelatin capsules eventually. So it had a very, very short shelf-life before the whole bottle, just turned into a mush of cyanide powder and melted gelatin. So, like you said it had to have been done, basically the day before the, the twenty ninth on the eighth, they could not no matter how hard they tried. They could not put James Louis or his wife in Chicago, that day. Right. They just. Couldn't and for his part, James Lewis said, yeah. I wrote this letter, I wrote the letter Johnson and Johnson, framing that travel agency guy. But I did not did not poison the Tylenol us always been adamant about that. He's never toyed around with it. He's never messed around. He's never been coy. He's always been adamant that he did not poison the Tylenol, although. The Tylenol task force tried to trip up. Once I guess, to just get this on the record that he done this. But they asked him like in a in an interview, okay? Let's say you had done it. How would you have done it? And he actually pulled an e showed them how he would have done it, right? Yeah. He just didn't write a book about it. He's showed him in an interview, and he defends this later on by saying. It was just a speculative scenario. I could tell you how Julius Caesar was killed. But that doesn't mean I was the killer. Right. I think the answer for me would have been. I don't know. Man. I'm innocent. I can't figure this out. He was like here. So I've been waiting to ask me, he's actually found in New York City. He's at the public library with a reference book, copying names and addresses of newspapers. I would imagine to send them letters like zodiac style because we gotta say this. So the cups figured out, who James Lewis was before they found James Lewis and it became part of the national media. Circus. It was a manhunt, while they were looking for James Lewis. Yeah. This guy was writing letters to newspapers. He called in a radio talk show. Yeah. He was really relishing. The fact that the, the there was a national manhunt out for him who, like sort of saying on the one hand, you go to kind of feel a little bit bad that this guy was kind of being railroaded into, you know, the rap for these murders after his extortion attempt, that's where the feeling bad for your like. Oh, yeah. That's right. Totally brought this on himself. He SO they hold him out of the new York, Public Library. He was sentenced to ten years for extortion. Attempts in ten years for credit that original credit card fraud and served thirteen years and lives in the greater Boston area today. So still today there, I think there are a few people who are like I could see this guy he may be maybe he could he could be some, some detectives maintain that the Tylenol murder could have flown into hair. Rented a car done that, circuit, your flown, or driven back to here and flown out all in the same day. The day before they could never put James Lewis in Chicago at all. That day. So he was cleared finally, although he did serve two consecutive ten year sentences reserved thirteen of the twenty years for that credit card fraud that the postal inspectors wanted and for and for the extortion letter. And like you said he lives in Cambridge mass now but then in two thousand nine the case after basically having gone dormant in the early eighties was reignited by the FBI because they worked up. They thought DNA profile Sherm the capsules and they raided James Lewis's house demanded of fingerprint and DNA sample James. Leeann Lewis fought it in court. The judge is like no you have to do this before leaving the courthouse, they gave him the samples and nothing has come of it. So I guess that means test that the Lewis's were cleared once and for all of the Tylenol murders. Yeah. And, you know, the DNA thing is an interesting piece because they still have some Sam. Apple's of the cyanide, I guess that the capsules have have worn away by now, if it had the cyanide in there, but there was and still is hope that DNA could could crack this case, just like eight or nine years ago, the Univar, Ted Kaczynski, is that a two parter. No, no. It's just one good podcast. I don't think so get up. He grew up in Chicago, and his parents were living in the greater Chicago area and eighty two and he is the Yuna bomber. So they said, we might as well get a DNA sample and talk to him. And he, he was cleared. I don't think he was ever a super strong suspect, and he's he probably would have admitted it. So he was like now. Mrs not me. Right. So the Yuna bomber has been clear, that's right. But that remains the case remains unsolved to this day. They also have a fingerprint workup that they found on one of the bottles, and that in some DNA is just sitting around with that there's there are no suspects there. Every suspect has been cleared in there's nobody on the horizon. It's just in unsolved random series of killings that happened. Yeah. They're still working on it, though. There's a police sergeant named Scott Winkelmann, who has been on this task force for a long time. And he says he thinks it's solvable and his department, did you saw BA forty five year old murder case cold case man, if they sold this one, that would be the biggest coal case over salt. I think I think I mean who knows, but I could see maybe finding like deathbed letter or something when day maybe like, I dunno if they're gonna catch someone in at the bottom of the Chicago river and the jail. But I could see the truth. Coming out one day hope so for the families because Monica, Janice, she's the niece of Adam Stanley, Theresa. She said her family to this day. This is from an article like last year, I think said that they have still not gotten over it. She said her grandparents have passed now but she said, literally every day for the rest of their lives. They just cried about the fact that they didn't know who did it. She grew up as has been theory therapy, her whole life, because there were all victims, you know, that this post traumatic stress disorder kicks in sure where she grew up fearing that any of her family members could die at any time. Joseph Manus her her dad says that he still has dreams like you know, on the rag about these murders. He said he had one recently, where everyone involved was in a room in the case. And then to black men and suits glasses were laughing about how they got away with murder. Michelle rosen. She's the daughter of Mary Reiner, right? She has dedicated her life to investigating this on her own, and she doesn't agree with the loan the mad poisoner theory at all. No, this is this is interesting. Yeah. She thinks it had something to do with the supply chain, and that Johnson and Johnson knew this and covered it up. Yeah, one of the things one of the things that people who believe this point, too, is that Johnson Johnson, recalled, all of that Tylenol thirty one million bottles, and then destroyed them allegedly without testing any of it. So we will never know whether it was pinky had the Dale, right? Whether, whether it was beyond Chicago or just local, Chicago. Right. Seems like it took long enough that other people would have died in that week before the national recall was undertaken if but there was something, very, very interesting, though, is a postscript to all this that does undermine that. Mad poisoner theory. Yeah, it was just a few years later in one thousand nine hundred five woman in New York named I n ELS Roth took two extra strength Tylenol capsules and died from cyanide poisoning, but they found I mean it's just completely unrelated. Was it, another copycat case? Well, or, or the original poisoner, maybe so the different cyanide, right? The cyanide was definitely not the same site. Right. From the same batch, it was chemically different. But there was another bottle found around the block from where Mary Ellsworth bought hers in Yonkers that did match that cyanide. So there were two bottles of extra strength, Tylenol two years later in another state that had been tampered with the problem is, this is after the three prong, tamper resistant packaging had been introduced, which means it was an inside job. Right. I guess, because the Tampere the thing had not been, obviously tampered with then. Island was never able to explain what happened yet and then within five days of her death, eight states outright banned the capsules Tylenol capsules right in Tylenol for its part was like we've been trying to get everybody to take capless. Anyway, keep taking capsules so we're making it. And then a guy wrote a book, right, Scott BART's. Yeah. Former Johnson Johnson employees wrote in two thousand eleven self-published book on the time poisonings in. He said, what we were talking about earlier. He's like this apply. Chain is so convoluted basically like it could definitely could have happened at any point right along the way. And his, his idea is that the Johnson and Johnson knew that it was in their distribution network. And they covered it up self-published book. Yeah. Gotta you gotta note that for sure not, not gonna know, but it's noteworthy it does, if there's like any hint of journalistic integrity in us that feel. Like we have to note that sure. So that's the Tylenol poisonings of nineteen eighty two in Chicago changed, America, change the world, but definitely changed America is the end of some form of innocence that we still had absolutely if you know, more about the Tylenol poisonings go online, there's stuff all over the place and you can go down there where but hole in its deep in white since I said that it's time for listeners. This is from gin from Brunswick, Maine, guys, been listening for several years and never thought I'd have a never thought perfect time, right? To write in would be related to synthetic farts. Remember the disgust episode. Talked about since synthetic parts. It's a real thing when I was in high school. My dad came across the stuff online called liquid A S S, horrible not allowed to curse, right? Spell it out the jer I guess, maybe you should said like a asterisk s. There you go. Good name for product. She said he founded on a joke, web website and ordered some and I have to tell you, it is the worst thing you've ever smelled. I can't even describe it, it makes you want to not breathe anymore. Tiniest little drop is deadly. So, of course, I took it to college with me to play pranks and boy, did it backfire. I thought it was pretty funny, putting a couple of drops in the radiator by my across the friend across the hall, friends room, not eating thinking and not even thinking about what would happen when the heat turned on. Well, the heat turned on the whole floor of the dorm was amazingly, disgusting and made us just about gag smell took almost a week to finally go away and have not used it again in the tenure cents. It's probably learning your lesson still has the bottle. I kept it right. Case. Case. Thank you for your interesting and entertaining podcast. This is the first podcast ever listened to and it's still always on the top of my download list. Thanks, thanks for giving this twenty eight year old woman, a platform on which tell a story of synthetic farts that is not completely out of place automous, that is Jen green. Thanks, Jen green very brave. You put your name on that one, especially I wonder if you stepped up and said that horrible smell that was my bad right of you. Have a great story about college pranks. We want to hear about it. You can get in touch with this view. Our social links by going to stuff, you should know dot com or you can send us an Email to stuff podcast at iheartradio dot com. Stuff. You should know is production of heart radios. How stuff works for more podcasts from my heart radio is at the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey there, dear stuff, you should know listener it's me, Josh, and I am hitting the road this June to take my solo show, the end of the world with Josh Clark live onstage to, to kind of two towns, maybe a near you on June nineteenth. I'll be at the Parkway theater in Minneapolis, Minnesota and on the following night, June twentieth will be in our nation's capital, Washington DC at the miracle theatre, even if you've never heard a second of the end of the world, Josh Clark, and I urge you to go do that. Or if you've heard ten times, doesn't really matter, there's going to be a lot in this show for you. Push. You'll get to see words come out of my mouth live and in person. I'll be talking. In other words at any rate, if you'd like to go, get tickets available at the miracle theatre dot com and the Parkway, theater dot com. Hope to see you this June.

Johnson Johnson Chicago murder Tylenol Jimmy johnson Johnson Chuck Tylenol America Leeann Lewis New York City Tena Tylenol United States Cup Josh Clark Johnson Johnson Tober Johnson Robert Richardson
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58:11 min | 1 year ago

Jock Talk with Tammi Piermarini

"Originating from our jimmy johns of lexington studios sees jock talk presented by tito's handmade vodka on the horse racing radio network pet intimate indepth discussion with the best junkies thoroughbred racing twenty five year old maria jared who studied buddy i they might not be inside the mother johnny alaska the taken shanghai bobby and then i brought my guy baby that rashi she barrage of border crossing the field here by hobby caused by the lightning and thunder rabbi all right now here's christine mcgill hello again everyone welcome to josh off presented by tito's handmade vodka right here on the horse racing radio network i'm your host retired jockey christina mcmahon a goal and i'm joining you tonight from our jimmy johns of lexington in kentucky studio i'd like to thank everyone listening tonight on serious to nineteen xm two oh one and also to those of you tuning into our website at horse racing radio dot net hey portion of the proceeds from this show go to be permanently disabled jockeys fund the pd j f provides financial assistance to riders who have suffered devastating ontrack injuries if you're able to help please visit their website at www dot pd j f dot o r g so i guess this evening she got started in nineteen eighty five five once you wanna first race suffolk downs and she went onto win multiple leading rider titles at suffolk an dizzy three time recipient of the elected she out memorial outstanding jockey award she was inducted into the new england hall of fame in two thousand fourteen she's the third leading female jog you've all time with two thousand five hundred nineteen wins in over twenty five million dollars in earnings it's an honor to introduce jockey tammy pay marine jamie welcome to the show well thank you christina it's an honor that to be asked to be on the show how are you today i'm doing great i am very excited about this show to me i you and i wrote together nine nine years ago i think it was at suffolk downs at all it's been that long long time it seems like yesterday really does an obviously we have a lot to talk about what the closing of suffolk downs this past sunday 'em breaks my heart i'm sure it does assumed you what was it like a riding their the final weekend of suffolk it was a crazy weekend you know a lot of mixed emotions came out from everybody not just me i mean everybody you wouldn't you know if you were there christine you being off because you couldn't move and the joined there is not a pack and spot around everybody in elbow to elbow a lot of here's a lot of smiles while you know it's sad sad sad celebration i really want is a lot of a lot of memories made that i can't i can't imagine the motion you i just feel thirty four years you call that police home oh that's home my own little family action big family from new england so it's even more home and when we had to leave and try and make somewhere else you know what they say no place like home so every time we'd go back to ride there it's just it's that feeling you get in you know it's relaxing and it's gonna be home well let's talk about hopefully the future is somewhat bright for a area racing their new england i heard rumors about fair circuit what what am i talking about now well i don't know how sure i don't know if it's a sure thing but there is you know there is a talk about great barrington next year 'em that would be nice end you know there's other other talk about gentleman wanting to build a racetrack somewhere massachusetts so to me if they could find somewhere or someplace to run i will be elated is not suffolk and a hopefully we do see that develops and but what was it about suffix that initially junior at century obviously you were from area but you started out there you road you won your first race as suffolk downs what is it about that restricts well southbound was very open in receptive to female writers number one when i started writing it was already a half a dozen female writers and then as in my air as i began writing and then years go by more and more female stepped into the jocks roman as long you're willing to work you would ride you know we were accepted as as an equal to the males there was no 'em those you know we we got every opportunity the same opportunity as they did in you know just the place not only was it you know accepted female writers but it was home i had i want my first race there i actually want on my mother and father first race force there they've only had one and he did real well and it was a memory i won't forget going into the winter circle where their colors having my mom going with a smile and grand from you know eared years i i started training there when i was in between pregnancies i trained with my first child and i had my first winner as a trainer there and then yesterday i was the last racehorse across the wire so i actually closed suffolk downs would riding a last place finish in the last race at suffolk downs and i also got lucky to ride the very last turf race at suffolk downs and when you mentioned a moment ago how suffolk was so receptive the female writers and you know one of the reasons that i myself went there i when the bug any since then you know forced to travel all were in right elsewhere and so you've seen the differences why is that why was suffolk so receptive to female writers i think you know because everybody had talked highly about it i'm from there so i mean that's why i was there but when you when you go somewhere else to ride and you say yeah you know the girls really good and they they liked the girl riders in boston more and more girls would come 'em not only that but say you're bigger girl the weight of lounges and the apprentice wait a lounge in boston it wasn't ten seven five it was a solid five pounds so that actually brought in a lot of writers there's also a that were on the bigger shot so i think some of the girls that were on the bigger side found it easier in in other riders men to come to boston if if when you're starting off as an apprentice you only have the you know you only have five pound versus can't tell us when we think you know when that's why when you first started out to me did you have a weight problem i wasn't frio 'em no no no not actually having a weight problem i was about a hundred pounds 'cause i was at i was eighteen years old will actually when i was younger i was heavy at fourteen fifteen sixteen i weighed about we're not worried about a hundred and forty nine pounds and i wasn't like courtly looking i was just the solid hunter and forty nine pounds but the the people i that introduced me to the thoroughbreds their wife was aj a nurse practitioner end and she says you know you might wanna see an endocrinologist because you have a very thick thick you know a stick neck it's you know you got belgian of the neck and she says you might have a thyroid issue and this is it like you know fifteen years old sixteen so when i went to the doctor and sure enough i did have a thyroid and within six months of being put on thyroid medication in heaven i actually had radiation treatment first and then 'em thyroid medication should i went from wayne hung on forty nine pounds to a hundred and six so 'em at ads and a practice i wait a hundred and six i struggled tack on her eight but i was pretty good but once i got older than the than the weight creep up you know so from my years after being apprentice yeah i have to say i i've worked at my weight you know so but i would try to eat properly you know try to find the right guy that work best for me just so that you know i could have a strong finish and not be week to starting out for you once thank god you're done you're thyroid under control your weight was normal and and so for you what appeal to you about the racetrack obviously you're parents were someone involved a theater resource of their own that you road but how're you introduced to the sport well i'm kristin my parents didn't step into the race horses until gosh i wanna say ninety nine two thousand they got their race so you from nineteen eighty five to that point i accidentally fell into the race for school i a starter babysitting when i was ten eleven years old from many different people in one of the people that i babysat for are the family that i borrowed horse trailer and i did stall from you know and i still i do the sold for them i use a horse trailer next you know they you know let me use a horse trailer and exchange where you know the stalls are babysitting one we're not 'cause i did have a horse trailer for the horse that i had bought me the stipulation i paid forever so my babysitting jobs i may pay for the grain the feed and things like that my parents course they helped out with the bills issuing the vet but that's the trailer once i start working for the family that had a you know that happy a young boy that i babysat in i could use a trailer they said to me one day would would you like to break some only for us we know you can ride the ride so would you be interested in breaking are baby you know i looked at much yeah i was gonna say yet fourteenth somebody yeah that's more horses in right i only had one horse and i start breaking their babies doing stalls babysit end of the week my paycheck when you're fourteen fifteen years old and you're paycheck is three four hundred dollars it's like wow i didn't have much time for my show us anymore in she wasn't a very good show us anyway she's a good pet when it wasn't a good show or so needless to say i dumped the show haas in stuck with the race horses moved in with the family because because my parents were moving away from that town to another firm that town to another town in if i moved you know i wouldn't be able to graduated wouldn't be able to stay near the farm so i moved in with them graduated at a year early and went on to the racetrack brand doing my show us got sold to people of two little girls and you know had a good home and i just a high continued on with the race horses and what i did at the racetrack is i go around gallup and i brought them up you know to the paddock brother right it's dry so were you able to gradually from high school early because you were really good in school christine i can say is i said were you able to gradually early because you were really good at school well i had all my credits that's in that you know about what i did is i got out the year before you know so i started my senior year but with all my once my credits were completed which was before before they end 'em they let me step out of school and then i went back for the graduation graduate the class is what i did so you're working at the racetrack strength you're so being all of this information in how did you know you were ready to roger first race listen i did it there was a gentleman there he was a valid and the next rider any gal tours user great guys name is paul bull he'd go in he came up to me one day and i had just my helmet and of course back then you're gonna have a best right things which is my helmet and a stick in i was getting on horses all around and one day i was enough offense come up to me he said you know tammy i've been watching you and he says you know why don't you become a writer and i looked at my says and i i seriously look too much is well i talked to vic he says no he said take a look around you're not too big he says you have a great scene on a horse from what i could see and you get on a lot of horses you know you really shouldn't try right and he reached up on his helmet any took off a pair of all those because my helmet and even have a fair all goes on back then any says he handed me the goggles here he says his first pair of goals that you're ever gonna own let's hope this brings you a lot of luck in that from that day on on put the bug in my ear the next day i decided that i wasn't gonna be a gloomy more just got the horses and i haven't bought and then go off i'm done with the booming i'm just gonna go spread my wings i'm a lot of bonds and say i'm gonna be right what could i do for you today in from that point on once i turned eighteen his cousin massachusetts you're becoming jockey until you eighteen you could gallop at sixty but get right so you're eighty once i turned eighteen and that's what i began to ride do you remember that first win at suffolk and how it all played out the first race i wrote while the first race has extra named on the roof roof on the grass in the stewards said we we can't let you ride cheesy says we don't we don't allow apprentice riots to ride the grass until they've had five win so i'm sorry but you're gonna have to wait on that so the next overnight that came out i was put on a horse called go diving in john it's a horse it i was getting on however he was the first time starter the first time style that i action patrick so they again pull into the stewards office said listen this is the first time style had i just right first time she thought it either i says well listen i know this horse only only one that's been on this horse i says i broke come on the backside in a i says as what the gate i've done all the game he's very very slow he's very good at the gate but very very so basically they said okay we're gonna let you ride on 'em and that's what's my first big field the twelve or steel news you is the first time he did he broke slow i don't know where we stick around for third fit but then two weeks later he was rented it ride a horse until he was reelected in again he was a twelve horsfield but this time in the one whole well we this time knowing you know i know we break so he broke slow again put me i'm anxious i just started sense and i sent as hot as i could and i discovered up on the rail and there were few horses in front of me one of whom was a journeyman there is a goal number she had known a storm in norman in that i will my way up inside him pay me he didn't have so let me true but i wasn't a dropped myself if i did you know if you try and take all i was taking and he knew it wasn't you know i mean he he he he opened the door because i was gonna drop myself a little clip in his heels like an idiot so i won the race i i was all excited save on firing me with eggs shaving cream a shoe polish water powder you name it my how much snow for weeks but past as that excitement and all the pitches he pulled me aside this is the gentleman that excellent writer one a lot of races are norman pulled me aside and he says don't you ever ever do that again he says because you'll be on the ground next time end i never forgot that day my happiness my excitement static journaling rush song to the model like i was they took you know like when you're mother father school do for the very first time in i took it the ha i and i never forgot it but you know i learned a big lesson that day one from the unexperienced journeymen one that i've never forgotten and i was helped many times by many good riders surely years to become why am today who were some of those other riders in the room room earlier on in your career i'm sorry i can't hear you again who who were some of the other riders in the room early on in your career well male riders will be by yes i always watched him he warmed horses will really good i mean if he will before i started writing i always watched all arrive i sat there they all had like little nickname while rudy by as always known to me as the stagecoach ride of the way he sat on the odd way warmed up the horse he looked like somebody ride and the stage coach coach with a web you is very strong finisher had a great clock in so that's i i fall you know warming up i thought was very good a gamut del i love the way you ride you could ride on the turf after short long natural seat on a on a great talent i love the way he said i loved his patience and i love this clock a the way i hit a loss i i i practice my hitting i watch frankie control he could really pickle horse's head up throw the rain that in the way he hit it just do it out so i tried perfect my hitting like hit well i took a little bit of everybody's stylized make my style now as for like a girl women you know each women was different though is jill she was one of her one of a kind great personality will tell you how it was but what is very honest and you're not you know it seemed like if you were more blunt more honest you know they respect as you want marian vulgar child she wished quiet she didn't say much a but had great clock sat quietly on all those nervous losses so i tried to take a little bit of that you know it it it follow her her away that way and then suzy kelly she just didn't seem seem to care about much at all you know she up speed outgoing whimsical and i would just say nervous she says no she says in the way of fix that she says she's taken like a morning work that go in the gay like it works in a hot how high can be is long as you try hardest do we best it's nothing to worry about you know you did her best in any that'll relax you i've been blessed with a lot of friends and in a lot of you know different right is it come out of there in you know to this day christina you know i'll ask well you know if i could learn something well what do you do that help this along well what is it that you do to make that washed break better you know what did they teach you hear it now if i could learn something new every day i'm aware you know what i mean it just makes that much better jogging tammy tammy rainy joining me tonight on jock talk presented by tito's handmade vodka right here on the horse racing radio network tammy i do wanna quickly speak about you mentioned joe jealous in one of these most wonderful people in the world unfortunately passed away at the very young age of fifty one 'em back in two thousand fifteen of breast cancer andy loves her dearly she was very very successful one two hundred and forty races in ninety eight i believe it was at rockingham and that whole area just wonderful person i wanna give her quick shout outs and she's no longer with us and not able to be with us 'em don't they have didn't they have stakes race named after her a suffolk they did last year but yeah i i want it to get well i'm glad they had last year at least yeah so respected a city respected she she's a great person you know as well as i she'd come at all what the heck this one isn't doing good yeah yeah it's it's this said that you know it's not training god i only job in a mile don't even feel good she go out when we knew right there and then it's gonna be a winner when she talked bad about a walk in like it it just went onto trout you're exactly right when it when it first happened i would i would like what is she talking about and then i figured it out so free you seem like me you are a bit on the town taller side when it comes to jockeys you're taller jockey how fooled up and look so good on a horse in a believer not gillis told me she five five i'm trying i'm like five to but i you know my whole life has been like by three but a male about five to ramp up but i dunno i have long legs but i have a very short bobbi kristina so i look better that way i have i have the long legs long long legs long enough and i always thought my arms gotten away and they in my husband would say no no no that sure strang you get the pusher more and hotter and you get the recheck further and you get the tickets cross it even emphasize that much more more because you have long so up but i think maybe in short imposture meaning from the waist up it helped me fold up because i didn't really ride real short i kinda road level at the weather and like i said i watched call camber deller and he always told me you know along you ride along you ride you know you don't wanna be riding to shore but it'll help with you're balancing it'll help with full enough on a horse i'm sure i'm sure you're days at parks you saw tony black ride and he he'd read these designs be down to the horses knees practicing yeah around very long so that said he i mean he's josh i don't even know how old he he was when he wrote his last race like sixty eight or something crazy i down a full then he lied one last year yeah i think so i think it was last year i don't even know how old he i forgot how old he is he crazy crazy but to me we need a tank quick commercial break here folks stay with us you are listening to jump talk presented by tito's handmade vodka right here on the horse racing radio network hi i'm tito beverage founder and master distiller at tito's handmade vodka america's original craft vodka i believe in the craft process of distilling in batches using old fashioned pot stills and that's the way we still make tito's handmade vodka today we haven't won the world spirits competition doubled old unanimous judge's choice tito's handmade vodka in my firm a hundred percent corn so it's naturally gluten free recipes videos and more visit tito's vodka dot com eighty proof tito's handmade vodka fifth generation inc distilled and bottled in austin texas hi i'm don glass and i'm jillian liberal jackie knows and accept the risk of us book every time they get a leg up levels although catastrophic on track accidents are rare wendy do happen live or the jockeys and they finally changed forever it's up to all of in racing to support these men and that's why we support him in a stable jackie since its founding ended up and they have had these birds or eight million dollars to seventy five stable jack bogle ninety cents out of every dollar donated goes directly to these brave men and women they used their monthly statement to pay bills higher caretakers and many other things that make living with a disability you'll be easier this is my kind of hr are in you know the pd j f has no permanent guaranteed funding mechanism in realize entirely on donations from people like you please the pd j f website at pd j f dot org to learn how you can help hi i'm ryan duggan i support the jam our world and i thank thank you you're listening to jock talk on the horse racing radio network presented by tito's handmade vodka they race off the top of her head into the home stretch here they've got a great cast is hertel read in man staring down outside now here comes a run from struggled struggled confronts colonel read just outside the prolonged ground bribing third down along the inside is his wicked journalist is also in it to win it here's john wolf and tell me clear player in the late cycle is opening up by four legs ed also set off the pace in house when the six from suffolk downs dad's hi there for a second a fourway photo of all start yelling pause generalists corto read in this wicked all involved in the photo all come back to john talk presented by tito's handmade vodka i'm your host christina mcmahon of all and i am joined this evening by jockey team you've hammer any sammy now as you're last victory at suffolk downs this past sunday shackle sin one pretty easy a believe jane byrne denia believe it was j or what yeah and i think he is he is based out of oh now i wanna say he's on he's on my facebook it's interesting to see how a the boss and people have kind of spread out all over the place a maryland ohio now you're your finger lakes actually i know you spend a brief amount of time at parks tell us tell us why you went to parks and why he went to finger lakes all right well when i left suffix we couldn't decide where we wanna go in you know we were bringing it all different racetracks you know several i wanna say i i wanna say around you know around thirty different racetracks had been too so we decided you know why not try with the money then that's where you believe or not at the time you did very well in in you know so i said you know there's some girl right there i said you know what i know some of the trainers air so why not give it a world i did very well believing wrong i had joe hampshire's invasion i don't know if you know joe williams he was originally from new england mhm in i i hit it right off you know hit like forty percent my first artist i i like i say they're just see year because i own a home there in i decided that you know i wanna go someplace that we could buy in florida for florida homes have some stability in a you know a lot of race and basically they stopped the car they believe they fear i got there they cut bait stare at you know a pennsylvania so you know and it wasn't moving around a lot i just you know you go up you know you go here you go there you go national it was a lot of driving around so i figured you know what you know i know do more people on gruden lockup at single lake it's a little more laid back a in you know the the mass spreads were up here mastered races were up here too and i says you know what i'm just i just decided that you know what i look for a house up here was a little more affordable so i bought a home appear single lakes after spending a year there and 'em they've been here now going on my fourth year no joe ham shire that's a familiar name a road with him there at parks actually we've had him on the show a back in the day end 'em yeah i heard he had an accident is she a he still an agent i guess at parks yeah he's an agent still yep he had michael sanchez the last thing new and i don't know if he has another ride if i know he does have michael sanchez he does a wonderful job yoda's yeah i love joe but what's funny i lot you know a lot of business was funny to me is that a you have a husband as you're agent for most of your career yeah actually now is he used his he currently arranger kcbs he currently currently my agent now how did that happen how do we fall in how how did he become agent how did you fall in love how did he become that all happened that story itself for the first time we met was wanna stay back early early nineties late eighties in then i was riding at rockingham on a friday night as they had night racing at rockingham pa annual there was only a few places that would be open after the races were closed shut down till they eat so i'm i met this place that it wasn't bark type of restaurant but i had to floyd so i'm looking down with all of us girls go over there and there were like i said there were several girls so jill myself linda anderson abby suzy kelly all of us so we had it over to this one place and i'm up above a broken down it was like it's funny you it was like a circular it was a second floor but i had like a circular whole the railing and i looked down a nuisance tables down below will happen to be a young trainer whom abigail full of married mind you sitting down below that i wrote for so i took piece of ice from my drink at the pipes in i chucked it down at in mind i hit him he looked up and he says hey camps and cause that was my nickname back then temps you just give me i want you meet somebody so i had announced as i sat at the table the little round table you know foresee sylla's mikey on my left and the gentleman on my right what happens to be my husband now and nobody across and i'm sitting there and you know we're talking back and forth blah blah blah 'cause i've written mike he was young he's the same age as i am you know now as fifties also self worth it and talking well my has been at the time he a he looks at me he says you know you're not riders need you need headset wouldn't microphones and i looked at my look that mike you gave a look like hello any go you know like nascar my guy he says because none of the owners and trainers tell us where it'd be what to do wonder hit him like a hack who is this year and oh what i'm like i'm thinking to myself heck is this aide whole you know i could tell you don't like women so i went and i looked straight in his face like oh you know what i'd say i'd go sorry it broke he wants to be i looked at him i excuse myself from the table at i did see for many years after and then i wanna say like ninety tour ninety four was a i read into mcgann is leaving the jocks from at rockingham wiz my pit bull dog and i'm trying to walk to the car and this gentleman comes up to me you know i it's not that i'm entice social anything but look more into my ride and anything else in order at the time i actually had a boyfriend i had a cop as a boyfriend but i'm just trying to get to my vehicle is a nice little ford ranger truck so i'm trying to walk to the truck through the crowd is quick is court and this guy next to me how you doing what do you know what today a nice day isn't it i'm just trying a walk i'm like i did look adam i'm just you don't know how you tried voice so i finally get to my vehicle and i glanced down in my put the dog and the side door the passengers he sits in the front and i'm gonna walk over to or you know the drive is i need over there and he goes you know what this me it really needs some waxing you know mikey catalonia could come over to your house wax the truck for you someday i looked at it and go all right okay celia and that was it again and then a nineteen ninety nine so several years ago by again nineteen ninety nine mikey comes up to me says you know tim i know you're single you been single now for a couple of years you know i have a friend in owner he says you know my son maybe walford double date is what this guy only a few times is i don't know he's talking about well attack ramal show yeah well ease right here right here right here in the walmart when pitches i'm like i don't know this guy he says i don't remember and then a well we got i got picked up and we went out on the date in believe it or not the date we went out it was the four of us who is game night so it was a bar the bar is game night in the guys were hitting on them soviet abby were laughing in the bathroom and i mean it was still all right we had we had nice suit in it was a great place great music we had a great time there had a lot of laughs and a went home i did talked to him for like three weeks and mikey come up to me in the morning stamp is a strong word like said no i said john you know what the hell out of there oh okay he says he likes the no if he could calling hi says all right sure why not you know so we went out on a second date alone in we had lunch and then we went to the movies in the hippos timmy right there in movies i thought he was joking to be honest when you when you and i said yeah sure sure no problem in a given married twenty isn't wow first when we first let them know we were married in in changed my last name on the program a they were all like oh you're gonna last week oh you're gonna last two weeks they were betting everybody on the backside back how long we were gonna laugh little do they know where already married six months but in west still going strong and money is that's amazing yeah i would say a crazy beginning to that story into you're live in an what's even more more difficult i would assume for marriage is is working together but you guys make that happen you do so wow how do you when i got married i don't think he took the book right away like they were like second year heats but the book end 'em i told my age i said listen i says my husband you know he's owned horses and you know he watches the lottery says he he'd liked become an agent and that's one maxi took him under his wing in in everything he knew it new my you know my husband about everything with aging and then we went on from there he's done an excellent job yes it can be tough we drive in together we drive home together he is my toughest critic but my greatest router in fans there is you know so i you know like i told and reporters there the day when you get beat of knows the head neck you know you always doubt yourself and you say well what quote i am done better what did i do wrong what could i have done and get get this horse across the wire you know wasn't me wasn't just a better hasa beat me and he would be the first to say it wasn't you you wrote a great race the horse was just second best or what the hell were you thinking about shoes my language for kinda ragland back and boy we need to have some celebration daboh we'd be arguing all the way home because let me tell you what i really do like to be told and i wrote a crappy race i did take that to help especially by my husband but you know then we'd sit down and talk about it or i give my explanation of why i did what i did and he sits for riders that i said he's never really looked at it are offered a writer explained that decision you know an he learned a lot and i learned a lot and that's why we're great team you know where we really were solid great great jogging teaming pm ernie joining me tonight on jock talk presented by tito's handmade vodka right here on the horse racing radio network so jamie i mean there's a really interesting point of view of life that was really really difficult for you an end it's amazing to reid about and see how you came out on top and even while you were going through what you were still able to ride some of the time and it's just a fascinating story so and tell our listeners there's a time in the nineties you got really sick and then that led to a lot of depression in the story theater saturday at all began in late i wanna say maybe even nineteen eighty nine in what happened is i wrote the card that day in i wrote the first race but i wasn't really feeling well in i had you know i had a headache and that headache you know each race i wrote it progressed in we back then we had dan and then worked for the bruins for many years so he was like a color man on massage therapists and are go to fix it guy he had everything and then he would you know he took my temperature with these monitors sticks that would go crush ahead and take attempt is you know tammy or if you know what after the first race his his you're hot you know you're about ninety nine in change temp wise and says he i know he has a micro cofer larger take these i prefer open you know as long as you're all right go ahead on with it and so i wrote the first and then i wrote the second in and the second the headache i had i mean i had never of of x variant the pain that i had i mean it was just like an explosion went off in my head i rode the second the headache was migrating a little bit you know my my between like shoulder blades i could feel the pounding the headache not in my head but also three my shoulder blade and i come back his boy you look really rough and yeah i still feel would be for another tacky tape on me she can all cheer now that you know a hundred and chain here about a hundred points six he says you decorative hasn't gone down even would be asked for nor the ipad pros but he says you know you still wanna do it i said yeah i'm still gonna go along with it i i write a really really good mount a in the in the fourth i said is for a great trainer paul flaunt and i said and i i don't i don't wanna miss that that mouth i said he could win so so i wrote the third in the post frayed of the third when they threw me up hit the saddle i so i sat down and that saddle the pain in my head it it it's like the pain went around and circumvented pounded and then it pounded the same pain went from my head down my spinal cord wait till my tailbone and then backup and i was like oh my gosh wow so i got up instantly in the tack and i just stayed i didn't even post post because of the pain just it was so much is now not just my head and my shoulder blades down my tailbone to my crack my button back up but it's just going up and down and all around you know get nauseous and heck heck i said she's so i went out i i rode the race and i come back in and i take my debt that dumb 'cause i just had a back i want in the bathroom i got my you know i just went in with his at three white my face sauce in i went and checked for the fourth 'cause that's the race i wanna ride and i went out to the polls parade in the fourth and i was nauseous is pack as nauseous again i couldn't take posting i it's hard to meet a job the light was baller my eyes but i you know i knew she could win the i mean like i just knew all you gotta do is break so she broke i held on we won the race in i got to the one is circle i mean i was so so sick how is in our flying in and they literally three of them come out and they got me off the horse 'cause i i couldn't this now i couldn't even take the the the my feet touching the ground it hurts so much and they walked me i had they basically carried me through the room in called ambulance mike kemp was a hundred in foreign change in a they hit me was morphine no no denver all any ambulance in vomiting started now i turned out i'm alert i was allergic to denver all which i've never had demere all before scholem violently you know my guts out the pain would that the pay i mean i i had a gun and i told added come and gone adjust a blow my head off just a get out of the paint i've never experienced it so they bring me the mass general in a low and behold they they run a lot of test in it turns out i had meningitis so i'm in the hospital my kidneys and everything shuts down in i think i spent three weeks in there so that this side of everything in of course now being old you know from that point on from eight i think it was eighty nine and ninety that took place on christine i'm not sure but from that point on it seemed like every year i got meningitis every year i'd have a fall i get messages i went on a vacation i love the water skiing barefoot ski i get i get i ended up my whole vacation in a hospital up in north conway hallway meningitis it was just one set back after another in area that that took place it took you know by the third year shores about ninety two ninety three high ninety two the wait problem side of 'cause i'd have to come back and try to get the weight off because you know you're on all kinds of steroids they could open the meningitis and this and that and everything else and that's when the weight issue happened and then i became believe it or not i became anorexic looming in because you know the guys he says he won't i won't eat and i'm gonna i'm gonna eat he loved he you know so i became anorexic will interrupted believe it to a point where that went out of control in then the sleep pattern hat while becoming anorexic bully mc you know i kept that secret from everybody and i'd eat myself out of the house and home i eat my neighbors that when my friends i go now rate their food in i just do away with it after an what happened is now my sleep patterns that at a change in when the sleep pat that patterns that it's a change a i became delirious when i became delirious i couldn't sleep anymore and nobody could put me this leap hospitals and quoted i went for i ended up in the hospital with them trying to get me to sleep and they couldn't find anything could put me down and out at just and i wanna eat 'cause i now i'm facing anorexia bulemia and not sleeping so that led to the severe severe depression and then i became aid basically duplicitous semantic bipolar the milk depressed i'd have the high high highs and i'd have the low low low in to a point where i wandered off myself an attempted it several times you know so a you know god i was with me and didn't allow it to be successful at either try it in this all stemmed basically from being sick and then being sick and being delirious and not sleeping i had a pass that crept up a skeleton and that will put away in the closet while they came out new skeletons were hard break up in a childhood memories that you know rewatch and you know being sexually abused as a three year old by babysit it is a being physically and sexually abused at fourteen fifteen year old fourteen fifteen year old by adults and then you know being beaten by a boyfriend that you call me boy music he loves you because he beat you know so all crept up in a just that's what causes the whole mental breakdown so needless to say i was locked up for a long time i was locked up at a hospital matter of fact there's a movie called the clean also i was locked up in that hospital for six months to the point where the state is gonna take over and you'd never see me again in my mother pulled me out and i went from that hostile to another hospital in was in and out in but what happened is they ended up doing going east c t shock treatments my parents agree to it they figured you know maybe this'll saver you know because nothing else they came in with the last race it last rites maclean you know i was eighty something pounds not eating not drink and not anything in a they had a meeting room naked in a room that was probably a three by fort room for more than that probably a two by i'm not one of those caught mattresses to lay down and that's it and and you know they agreed to do the shock treatments which is basically eight 'electronic limbaugh tummy of the brain and they do sided me and they did for five treatments that maclean in a kind of brought me to my senses but very painful and then i was home for a little bit and ended up somewhere else for a while and then ended up somewhere else for awhile and they did multiple e c t shock shock treatment to the point where you know i ended up a new report and done some and got out on a day pass and i go ride we're not gonna ride my father would come get me going ride and then i'd be back by sea evening 'cause that's when you're supposed to be back back in the hospital and nobody knew that nobody knew where i was so so and then one in once i got pregnant in a two thousand yeah it'll stop everything this the bed sleeping habits it's like i could sleep like a love all all of a sudden everything changed my hormones changed in i've been good since i'm not saying christina that i don't have a a you know anger issues at times which everybody does because i keep men for a long time until somebody you know pisses me off enough and then i'll blow and you don't wanna be around me live well you know it's well deserved but a wow that's that's what i overcame i overcame a lot unbelievable i i just wanna put out there jamie i wanna read the script the movie about your life i mean yeah but i you know i could write a book really doing that and then you know being having my children i have three children one's gonna be eighteen in october one's gonna be thirteen in september in one just turned nine and they were all horrible will hold yeah all horrible you know what's supposed to be exciting when you're pregnant you're gonna have you first child experiences my my first child delivery was horrendous forty eight hours of pushing i had a dog that was on his third straight shit in you know i was having so much pain in my husband says some wrong my my my my wife king cole repaying she's buster back and written with broke backs she broken this broken she's she's consult no no you she says oh page on there's something wrong for sure enough that the forty eight hours my stats dropped the baby's heartbeat drop in i went into a state of shock and they rushed me insignia operating room and did a c section and lo and behold she would never even in the canal sheila's transverse me sideways i'm trying to push a baby that sideways out an end when they when they cut cut me open quickly they called her nose and they cut her from the top of her nose to just under her nose and to this day she's i i you know i give all the credit in the world she says she gives their credit i mean it gives her carrot but she still has that scar from when she was a child born and then my second childbirth turns out my son had the cord wrapped around his neck four times in he was breach so it was another csection there and then the third child they didn't even want me to have first of all they set out schools as a forty three years old they said you're tools in she has down syndrome they did the test you she has down syndrome andrew tool end she only has two chambers of hot i said listen this is what god wants my husband and i have i'm gonna carry it all the way i don't care but it's had down syndrome annot they're both council and we had some so let them know what would what's gonna happen in what the baby's gonna be like an prepare everybody shoes born we had her c section in she's a beautiful nine year old petite little girl right now that does not have down syndrome has all her chambers everhart they were wrong you know they were wrong amazing i mean yes she she you know right now we've she's been recently diagnosed with as a type one diabetic but here's a baby they wanna meet the aboard an inch is the most petite sweetest girly is girl you could ever get your hands on now i want to share our listeners we only have a couple of minutes left here taming but wanna share with our listeners that i know what you're second child at least you were still riding up until now have you're pregnancy my son i wrote up this three and a half months in then tampa one day i had a horse flip she had extension blaker but she doesn't want her when she flipped in in she taught my fought broke the top four am i fought so needless to say i needed to a and that was hush hush you know and and telling me i was pregnant so i had the fort left that and i had he looked at i had a baby looked at and make sure everything is okay with the baby 'cause i wasn't even showing an a and that's when they told me it was a boy and so that's what happened there and now with sophia my last i roll with her up before we got no more time left so sorry hey pick you up like i said we need like three hours i know it's a great view aids interrupt wishing you all the best team we can't thank you enough of this left w again a here on the show anytime and good luck a finger like she currently writing a finger lakes you wrote to today actually a so best of luck there sam thank you so much thank you so much christine i appreciate it folks check out the show and replays of all of our other shows on the website at horse racing radio dot net there'll be shorter join me next tuesday at six o'clock eastern time with another addition of junk talk presented by tito's handmade

jimmy johns lexington studios tito bobby christina mcmahon lexington suffolk suffolk downs maria jared shanghai christine mcgill josh kentucky new england hall of fame tammy one day forty nine pounds six months fourteen fifteen year forty eight hours
Ep. 391  Charlie Sykes

The Axe Files with David Axelrod

59:51 min | 4 months ago

Ep. 391 Charlie Sykes

"And now from University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN audio. The axe files with your host. David, axelrod. Once Charlie Sykes was the king of conservative Talk Radio in Milwaukee and the State of Wisconsin had a lot to do with the election of Scott Walker Ron, Johnson, and the resurgence of Republican dominance there, but then in two thousand and sixteen, he split with the Party over the nomination of Donald Trump lost his radio GIG and set out in a new direction as the leader of the Republican and Conservative resistance. He now runs a social media site called the bulwark, which is a home for anti-trump conservative writings and commentary I sat down with Charlie this week to talk about his journey and the state of politics and conservatism today. Charlie Sykes, it's. It's really good to see you. There's so much to talk about. That's going on right now, but your journey is really almost unique from a liberal and growing up in a really liberal household to so the quintessential conservative talk show host. I remember what power you were in Republican politics up there in Wisconsin, and now apostate a very consistent voice about trumpism and dangerous for the Republican. Party, there's so much to talk about. That's going on now as I. I said but let's review that incredible journey I and explain how Charlie Sykes got to this moment and tell me a little bit about your folks. I was stunned to learn that. Your Dad ran the McCarthy Eugene McCarthy campaign in the State of Wisconsin in nineteen, Sixty, eight, the antiwar, iconic Liberal Democratic candidate. Tell me about your folks that that that's you by the way I. Think I should put up a pasta on my business cards. Because what else would I describe I? Know it's it's. It's not a bad thing. No. One thousand, nine, hundred, thirty eight is still the center of my political universe, and that's where I really got started in the policy that was an eighth grade, and not only was my dad. The campaign manager, few gene McCarthy I remember in November of nineteen, sixty seven. He and I and one other guy opened the first McCarthy headquarters in a criminal little room in the Wisconsin Hotel and there were just three of us, and so your eighth grader and you start this and. And you're licking envelopes. And this thing just kept growing and growing until after the New Hampshire primary. You had these thousands of kids descending on Wisconsin and it was. It was a heady experience I. I got the chance to get to know, US Senator McCarthy and I think that kind of spoiled me about politics because I really thought that politicians could be like that as opposed to what we know they really are. What do you mean describe McCarthy as you remember him. Remember him as being kind of a gentle soul, probably too gentle for that particular, rough and tumble, but he was a man of such obvious principle, integrity and intelligence and eloquence, and that that you know that appeal to me, I thought this was the kind of and of course he was running at that point again, Robert F Kennedy Robert Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy. Was this iconic figure, so you look back on one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, eight, and everything felt larger than life. Now of course I'm a kid. You would normally think that, but even in retrospect it felt like that and my dad actually brought me along to the Chicago Convention and I was a of your page there. I heard I was a page and one of my proudest achievements at the time was because of course I i. I realized this was. This was a big deal that I decided. I was going to get the Wisconsin Banner. Remember when they used to have the the cardboard sure stanchions, yes, and I I wanted that stanchion sure enough at the end of the Convention I've been a win through all the crowd and everything. Grab that thing, and for many years it was in our garage. I WANNA I WANNA ask you about that convention in your experience in Chicago before I, just went back up a bit. Led, your dad to be a such a a fervent progressive I know that he served in the war, and he went to law school, and then he decide to become a journalist, which is what took you to your family to Wisconsin? Tell me about him as a person because I know, he was very formative in your life very very much. So now you're right. He was. He was a code breaker in world. War Two went to law. School was bored to death with being a lawyer and decided he was much more interested in politics and up. had a series of completely unsuccessful political runs and ended up as a as a as a journalist and an editorial writer. Writer for the the Marquis Sentinel which no longer exists and the Marquis Sentinel was a very conservative publication, and he was the token liberal. So I think it was very. It was kind of a stressful situation. So at a certain point he left for academia became a professor of journalism, became the president of the Wisconsin Civil Liberties Union ran McCarthy's campaign but he was always. He was very much a contrarian i. mean he was a he was a free spirit he was. He was the opposite of the Party Apparatchik loyalist, and which is why I think. He and McCarthy hit it off. He was very close with William Proxies. Meyer are senator. In fact, he wrote. prox- Meyer's biography. because I think that they were they were gadflies yeah. Yeah Well Your Dad passed away relatively young at sixty three. He would probably be pretty happy about the role. You're playing now for pure contrary and ISM. Standing up to your party or the party that you identified with for so long. He ran for office as well. ran for Lieutenant Governor in Wisconsin and spectacularly failed. You have to also understand that. He also became in the early Seventies. He also became much more conservative. I think in reaction to some of the. The excesses of the antiwar war movement and I think one of his turning points was. When was student student? Demonstrators tried to shut down his school University of Wisconsin Milwaukee and trash the library and he was, he was repelled, even though his credentials, his antiwar liberal credentials were absolutely impeccable. He was very much a repelled by that and I think began. He started moving to the right really almost before I did. Just about nineteen sixty eight. You talked about how it looms large in your memory. It also looms large in history and a lot of people myself included because we're about the same age. has have been thinking about nineteen sixty eight in the last few weeks. as we've seen these protests all over the country around the issue of race. When you were page at that convention. In Chicago there were antiwar protests, and there were protests in the inner city of Chicago You must have been aware of that as a thirteen year old boy when that was my first encounter with tear-gas. Just getting to and from getting to and from the Convention, Hall So, Yes, and of course we had riots here in Milwaukee. The year before so this. This was a time that. You're right I often it does feel like a little bit of a flashback to then because you had the sense that things were falling apart and that make a great issues were very much in play. So let me ask you about today. In that context, obviously, the sixties were an era of ferment about civil rights, and and there was progress made in the civil rights. ACT The voting rights, act, but now we find ourselves having discussions having I as a young reporter. You became a reporter I covered the issues of police brutality forty five years ago forty seven years ago. A lot of the issues that are being contested and protested today are the same ones that we were talking about fifty years ago from your perspective. How do we take the next step how we get beyond this? How do we deal with a legacy? That just haunts us to this day. Well I think the shock that we're experiencing now is that we didn't move as far beyond that as we thought that I think a lot of people on the ride felt that we turn to page on race relations, and we did make some progress, but and then going to daily basis we find how far we have to go. And I and I I will say I've been when I was a journalist, I wrote up long magazine story about police misconduct. In I think it was in in the nineteen eighties, so it was not something that I was naive about, but even I have to admit. that. The extent of the violence, the extent of what's been happening is been shocking and I'm not proud to say that the variable here is the videotape. Let's face it. You know we are confronted with. It is not possible to deny it. It's not possible to rationalize him. You know. And I know that that a lot of people on the right have spent the last twenty years essentially saying look, we need to side with the police about this A. If if you don't want to you don't WanNa, get shot. You just need to not break the law. You need to cooperate and I think that. That that illusion delusion has been has really been shattered, so I'm hearing from a lot of people. Know on the right who are as disillusioned and stunned by this as anyone else. That doesn't mean that the the the trump world will react that way. He obviously sees this as a and you've written. You wrote about this the other day. He sees this as a moment to further mine, the cultural divide that he thinks animates his campaign used suggested in your piece that he's misreading the moment i. I think he is misreading. The moment I mean I. think that that he thinks that if he keeps going back to the same playbook of playing the playing the race card standing behind the police Cetera the law and order card, there will have the same reaction that it's had so many times in the past he'll get nineteen, sixty, eight or nineteen seventy-two all over again, but this is where I think. His instincts are failing. Because something has shifted and you can just, you can feel that. That, you know as a e, even though and I'm describes having sort of Reptilian instinct, Reptilian, cunning and he. He thinks he has the he knows. How to exploit the divisions in the cultural war and it's not working this this time I i. do think that he's misreading misreading the moment badly one place where his miss reading, the moment is in suburban communities. You I look at your state, Wisconsin and the to borrow a word you're found of the bullwork of of republicanism in Wisconsin where the suburban areas around Milwaukee, and they're still republican areas, but they they they're shifting. You had a very significant supreme court race in March there. That pitted a a very liberal candidate against a sitting justice of the Supreme Court there. There was quite conservative, the liberal one, and in far better in some of those suburban areas than was customary for these kinds of races, trump has actually shifted or accelerated a shift in these areas. Has He not no, he really has the so-called wild counties in Wisconsin Waukesha Ezaki Washington. County kind of legendary counties usually is overwhelmingly Republican. I mean they were. They were so republican that they could counter big democratic margins from Milwaukee and Waukesha but you're not seeing that anymore you're. You are seeing the erosion here that you saw elsewhere now I have to be honest with you though. You know this is where I do think that folks on the left the Democratic Party need to be somewhat cautious because the win many of these voters here defunding of the police or abolish the police. Were Watch. Police stand back and places like Madison. They do go back to some of their route, so there's a little bit of risk there, but I'm over the weekend I. Think you know Joe. Biden has made it clear is not going to fund the the police and James Clyburn. This is very very important. We as I mentioned this here very important. When you're talking about these suburban voters, it's not clear really what the word means because it means different things to different people, but and you're right Biden was quick to renounce the word. Everybody's talking about and I. Think it makes sense you probably think makes sense about serve reimagining how we approach public safety. Safety about making some investments elsewhere to get at some of the root issues that we see there seems more to be more and I'm interested for as your from your perspective as a conservative, but there seems to be more receptivity to that idea that it's not just about the relationship between police and community, but it's about larger issues that we just have an address. No, and I think there's this moment right now where I think that there is this cross partisan willingness to ask these questions you know look at issues like qualified immunity. Ask You. How does the criminal justice system really work? You know. Are the police really there to serve and protect and. You're seeing this reflected in the polls and I think you're seeing this reflected in conversations that people have with one another and a should you know we've probably shouldn't have taken videotapes to get to this moment, but that's that's where we are Charlie. This is sort of I was having this discussion the other day with somebody else. This is kind of the way history works Emmett till's mother leaves the coffin open, and people see how we beat and savaged. He was John Lewis and the protesters get brutally beaten by bull connor in Selma. These kinds of images galvanize a country and I think that's what that horrific video from Minneapolis did. Let's just return to your story. We've got plenty more to talk about about where we are today. You found your way following in your father's footsteps into journalism. What what led you there? You know that that that's that's a good question I. was an English Literature Major in College, and apparently, and at some point decided the perhaps there was no career path whatsoever. This was the least practical major. You didn't just want to set up like a little corner English literature store, and you know I wonder what for a weekly newspaper, and then was hired by the daily newspaper, the Milwaukee Journal and quickly became the City Hall reporter and I think. Think you and I talked about this. I have to say the looking back on. That was the best job I ever had. I enjoyed daily journalism I enjoyed the deadlines really more than anything. Else I've had better jobs better. Paying jobs jobs with better hours, but just for the pure fun of doing it I. Love being a reporter I loved asking questions. I love making trouble. I love the investigation of breaking stories. and I think that that's that's. That's a anyone who's gone through. It knows that that's a formative experience and everything else. Kind of is a little bit Paler Yano I I love to every bit of it. And I you and I both had the experience of covering larger than life characters I covered well several I had Richard J Daley for brief time but Jane Byrne and then Herald Washington in Chicago you. Had you covered an iconic Mayor Henry Maier? WHO was there? There for twenty eight years, and really ruled over the town and you you. You said you say not exaggerating that you love me trouble. You made a lot of trouble when you're there and you really challenged City Hall. Tell me about covering mayor. Meyer there who still remembered in Milwaukee as a legendary figure? Well, he has a very eccentric guy and I I was in my early twenties, and he had already been mayor for nearly twenty years and. To say that he was a little bit paranoid is putting it mildly. Kind of a little bit Nick Sonian in a in a way, and absolutely hated the media, so he was even almost before agnew, he was running against the left wing media, so we would have press conferences where he would you know he would refuse to answer my questions and because of the biased, but I I and they found the. I found the role of being a journalist as being someone who would challenge and dig. And and not be cowed. you know someone like this because? I mean he tried to I. Mean we're part of his strategy was to call you him. and. Unleashes string of. Obscenities at you and explain what he was. You know the anatomical things he would do to. You and I'm twenty two years old and I could have like okay I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry Mr Mayor to do this, but it was like screw. This you know didn't go. What is the point so I think that that was? That was where my contrarian streak helped me. A good deal. Yeah, no, I had the same burn. was unhappy with my coverage and threatened to banish me from City Hall which obviously had some legal. There were legal barriers to that, but it was exhilarating to shine a bright light in those dark corners, and when you have a long term mayor like Meyer You know he's not accustomed to that kind of scrutiny so I'm sure you as a little whippersnapper, or were not well received over there, but you left. You left after what six years or so yeah, yeah, about six years was about six year they may I had the chance to go work for a city magazine which also had a hard edge to it and. That was a longer form although I will I will admit that it was a culture shock going from a daily newspaper to a monthly magazine. That has to be like. I used to walk around the newsroom until about two hours before my piece was due, and then I frantic furiously right the piece, but I needed the deadline to get me going I I would have a hard time making that transition to full Time magazine writing now for some reason I just sort of what went from the ultimate at least at that time ultimate. Instant gratification, which is you write a story at eleven o'clock in the morning, and it was out on the street by one fifteen to do going to a magazine where it's once a month, and then I started writing books, which means write something, and then you wait a year for it to be published so. It's it's. It's more enjoyable to do podcasts and. Things on our daily website where he feels more like daily journalism than a lot of things I'd spent the last few years doing. We're GONNA take a short break and we'll be right back with more of the X. Files. 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You talked earlier about your father's transition of conservatism. You've said yourself that would happen. At the University of Wisconsin in Nineteen, seventy, where buildings were blown up, was a impetus, but over time you made a full transition. Tell me about that. I think that was certainly part of it and I think part of was. Seen a lot of the social programs of the. Of of the era, the the great society and some of the things that Jimmy Carter was doing watching it, they they come in. They just work they. They weren't succeeding many of these these experiments when you see them up close. The gap between the intention on the reality so I. Think became more skeptical of government I'm not sure that that pushed me completely over the line but I think that that was one where I consider. Remember in the late nineteen seventies that I would ask questions. Is this really a good idea? Is this you know and I would be denounced like well? You can't say these things that you sound like a right winger. You sound like a conservative and initially that was horrible and. Shocking then I realized well. Maybe I am. And Again I. was you know the? Kind, of willing at that point to. Savings that at least felt very unorthodox. At the time you know I often think that we sometimes get to wedded to means rather than ends and that if things don't work that, you ought to try something else but I also think that there are. and. We're seeing it again. In a really dramatic way. There are endemic inequities in our society in our country in our economy that sort of make a mockery of the notion that. If you just work hard, you'll get ahead. Some people face barriers that are very very difficult to traverse. People of Color have a generally faced these huge barriers. Poor people tend to stay poor in this country. So what? What do you put in place of those well-intended programs that you discard? That's the good question that of course is something that I got arrested with over the next twenty years, or so and one of the things that I I kept talking about even when I became a conservative radio talk show host, and became really quite conservative, and maybe part of that movement was inner city school. Choice and Milwaukee was kind of ground zero there. There were some folks of the Bradley Foundation. The played a key role in all of that and I was very closely associated with them and I. Really Convince Myself that that was these civil rights movement of the of the nineteen nineties. That's. That's sort thing to break. The monopolies to do to break the the the the opposition to a reform that you often had from the teachers, unions and I would like to say that was more successful than in reality was, but that was certainly one of the ways I looked at it was which was I want schools that are going to be more effective. No one should be forced to go to a failing bad school, so I actually felt that I was more reforms place by moving right on some of those shes. Yeah, as you point out privately run. Schools have had mixed results. Just as public schools had mixed results I. do think you know. I mean I'm pro-labor. Person I do think that teachers unions have been a barrier at times to reforms that are necessary. Just as by the way police unions have been a barrier to reforms that are necessary. We're seeing that in in stark relief, you wrote you wrote a book. In Two thousand twelve called a nation of Moocher's America's addiction to getting something for nothing and I'm wondering put that. Put that book in the context of where we are today. Are there things that you would rethink about that? You've made it clear that you think that there are programs that failed, but there are also programs that are necessary to see it. During this covid nineteen disaster, people relying on unemployment, insurance, food stamps and other things well. If you flip over the back of of that connection a Moocher, you'll see that the the blurb is from Paul Ryan and afterwards I think both he and I went boy. You know what that whole makers versus takers thing. A little bit of stated and so yeah, that is not a book that I think I would write these days a, but about half of that book is devoted to corporate welfare into the special interest with their hands out. And to that extent that that's still holds up pretty well under Donald Trump's kleptocracy. Where you're, you're seeing the the the the administration rewarding. It's the people who are politically well-connected, because those folks are Moocher's as well. Some of those major corporations, but yeah I think that. You know when when you think about what it's like to be vulnerable to understand. the number of people who are living absolutely on the margin, they are one car break down away from losing their job and their livelihood. You know one financial setback away from being infected from their apartment. unable to access health insurance. This is not about Moocher's. This is about whether or not you have a society that in fact is focused not on some abstract principle, but on providing opportunity and help for people who need that help so. I would think that unfortunately that book lacked the kind of empathy that I wish it would have had and. sort of parenthetically. I think it probably contributed to Mitt Romney's worst moments. When he talked about the forty seven percent, the takers in society, the yeah, I remember that yeah, there were a couple of articles that sort of linked my approach to his on all of that, but yeah, I think that was the you know part of what I think. The good conservative movement had done was to cultivate a certain amount of insensitivity. A certain amount of you're on your own that. That was one thing to talk about the ownership society which I found very very appealing when Jack Kemp talked about. It's something else when it's like you know what if you're not doing well, it's your fault and we have no obligation to do anything for you and I I think that's salon. That was that was reflected a bit in that book, particularly in a society where everyone's opportunity to be rewarded for their work together ahead, and so on is not. Not Equal and we know that, and that's really central to the discussion. We're having right now. Well, that's right, and and you don't mean back. When when I wrote that I was I was a big believer in the mobility of American society that that that if you did certain things that, in fact, you could overcome any of these barriers and I think that was naive. Wrong headed to a certain extent. Sure I mean obviously there are a lot of ways, would you can? Can Change your socioeconomic situation, but the deck is so badly stacked. You mentioned that your transition I started at the top by referencing this man. You're you're a legend. Milwaukee you're on the radio there for a quarter of a century and You were in fact when you pointed to when people pointed to conservative Talk Radio, Charlie spikes was one of the names that always came up because you were such a dominant voice at a very dominant radio station in the state of. Wisconsin. Tell me about that transition. What attracted you to it and how you reflect on those years now. It does seem like a different life. I'll be honest with you and at this point and I got into radio completely by accident. I had been writing and I. Think finished my first book or maybe my second book and I was asked to do some backup work, and then one of the hosts, one of the stations was busted for soliciting a prostitute is the old story, and so they asked me to come in and I and I stayed around I don't know. Part of it was I think in the beginning I really thought that we were just simply creating an alternative voice, and to the extent that the rest of the media decided to ignore the things that we were talking about and not speak to it. They kind of opened the field for us that we're the only people talking about these sorts of issues, and so they ceded to us the monopoly, so for example as the population was moving out of Milwaukee, going into the wild counties. Much of the rest of the media instead of just ignore them in focused on other things so Again I. The way it morphed though and nominee fast forward here. I really did think that we were affordable. Alternative and I really kind of flattered myself in the audience into saying look. Folks have great deal a common sense. They are very sophisticated and up until Twenty fifteen twenty sixteen. I I really did think that Wisconsin. People had a level of engagement that was different than. Anywhere else in the country, and of course they didn't by trump during the primary. So What crept up on me was the way in which the conservative media in general had become an alternative reality silo and had broken down immunity to other points of view in our audience, and I know that I contributed to that, but that doesn't lessen the shock. I mean when I thought what do I. Do in the morning while I'm GonNa sit. Here I'm going to read a George will column or women. I talk about what Charles Krauthammer had to say were back before the. The Wall Street Journal editorial board lost its mind look at their analysis of all of this, and then let's talk about this. Not Trying to be a rush limbaugh at all and the audience liked it, and they went along with it, but it apparently was much thinner on the ground than I would've liked to have believed. Midwestern republicanism was a very genteel kind of republicanism, a very moderate kind of republicanism for generations. You kind of coined the phrase rhinos, which is now used against you. Republicans in name only and so you know that my response. Shocking well. I didn't say I I'M NOT I'm not entirely ascribing to you, but but but it's, but it's something that you these are references that you made and. I mean you know the fact is one of the ways that you guys and anybody? Frankly, but donald trump is discovered this to. If you're the more incisive, you are, the more cutting and biting you are. You're good listening. You refer to Janet Reno's justice. Department is not unlike Nazi, Germany, and and you know stuff like that. That is a familiar kind of me M- in Conservative Talk Radio, and now you formed a site called the bulwark. You have two podcasts there the. The bulwark is really really good reading and I. Try and keep up because it is thoughtful and always agree with everything you guys right, but it's thoughtful and you talk about civil discourse and I'm wondering how the Charlie Sykes of today reconciles with Charlie Sykes of you know so. You're hotter moments back in the day when you were ruling talk radio in in Milwaukee Well I. I'm not sure I rolled it. W-. We add a culture being this no time for false modesty. We had a culture of. Five conservative talk shows that we're all you know really pretty successful here, so you know and and I tried not to be necessarily like all those but it, but it's still a fair question David and I asked myself this all the time. Did I know. Why did I get drawn into VAT? kind of tribalism, because okay, so I'm talking about being a contrarian, but you know at a certain point you get drawn into this and talk. Radio has its its greatest hits. It has its themes, and I think one of the really wrenching things with the trump. Era is hearing some of the things that we probably talked about. But sort of played back to us in the crudest most naked bizarro sort of way so I, recognize it and I say okay. Is this the kind of thing that I was saying or did? I was addressing it up in a way that? That I didn't understand how dumb it was at the time or or the or the way that it would be heard so. You know these are tough times I know for people on the left, but I had to tell you. It was soul crushing to go through this to watch the people who listen to you for twenty years by individuals, and then belatedly after I left the show have to go back and say to what extent that I contribute to this is. I didn't think so I. Mean I in Two Thousand Sixteen. I thought we were GONNA. Stop them, I thought. There's no way people are going to buy any of this stuff on your show. You actually had a a pretty brisk and pointed exchange with him when he was passing through Wisconsin running in the Wisconsin primary. Well, it turned out to be kind of a turning point, but it was for me. It was just a combination of six months of almost every single day. Saying don't do this. People really this is not who we are. He's a caricature of everything they say about us. You know for twenty years. They've been saying that. We are racists and Misogynists, and all of this stuff, and here comes along this cartoon image of everything. They've said about us. Don't validate this, so he calls in on March. Twenty Eighth Two Thousand Sixteen I didn't think he was going to call my show. If they had spent ten seconds doing any research, they would have known I was never trump, but he did call in, and I asked him some of the things that were in my mind. Like. Why do you talk about ironically enough you know? Why does somebody who wants the job that Abraham Lincoln once held. What are you spend time making fun mocking The looks of Ted Cruz Wife. That was the thing in the in the air. You know like seriously. You want to be president. You sound like an eight year old on the playground. A lot of attention, and he said and his and his response was as he has in many other occasions will he started it I know he was, he was pure trump. And you know the good news is that he lost badly in Wisconsin, but then as the year went on the people who listen to me decided that the the this trickle forces or the gravitational pull of partisanship meant that they were going to buy into trump and a very disillusioning, so you asked me actually very pointed question about civility. and. You know it's. It's there's there's there's there's no question about I. Don't think that I would like to go back and listen to some of my shows. You know I ask you about it, not not as an indictment, but because I'm trying to work my way through an environment now in which we are all silo D-, and in which you know this this podcast began as a place where I could have conversations with people of different points of view, and people could learn who they were, and we could of take the dehumanisation out of it and and have real conversations it. It is so much harder to day to to do that. because people on the left say well. Why would you have that person on your podcast and people on the right? So why would you go on that podcast? And so you and I can have good faith differences about how we might approach problems. We probably wouldn't have good differences about you know. Fundamental facts which has become a problem today because the president and his supporters are pretty in in their version of facts and events, and when they're inconvenient, they change, but my my point is had we. Find that place where we can have good faith discussions again. You know really worries me Charlie. And and it's a crucial question. I will tell you after. After I left the the radio show the the the first first time I was able to have a conversation like this. It did feel extraordinarily liberating to have a conversation across the line where you simply weren't using languages a casual and I think that you know. When I think back on I. was I was on the air for twenty three years, and for some of that time we did try I. Did it would have Democrats and liberals on? We did and I have a weekly television show, and we always had a mixed panel, and the conversations were were civil, but I think that as time went on. it became more and more red versus blue, and instead of having a discussion like you're describing it was. How do we provide ammunition in user shows as cudgels. and. The contrast between that and then sort of the world that I'm trying to live in now, which is, can we actually have these reason discussions? It's it's a very dramatic contrast, but I can still see back when I listen to conservative talk, radio or I watched Fox. News I can recognize the world and I can recognize what it is that you're striking certain notes. You're playing certain hits you running through certain means and narratives, you're creating a safe space for your audience, and the the goal is always to defend your team and demonize the other team. And the playbook is very obvious to me and so I, e everything that I've written about about this alternative media I think everything's getting worse at the moment. That playbook was written by Roger Ailes, and you know I knew Roger. We competed against each other when I was a political consultant when I was a media consultant, and I knew him lie in later years. When I work for Obama, he understood that. Better than anyone that I know he he saw those faultlines. He knew how to mine those faultlines and he created a You know this this incredibly profitable machine for Rupert Murdoch along way, but you know trump has taken it to another level. It's kind of interesting now is to watch, trump say will fox news is not trump enough well. He's yeah. He would like to be his own state. State on media, nobody that I can't remember who think was Jon, favreau who identified this early on Donner's Dan. Donald Trump you have to understand the first real talk radio candidate. His entire presidency is like what would play on talk radio today. Not The best shows the worst shows the word lowest common denominator shows, and he has that he he knows what buttons to push so it is impossible, but. Again not trying to to rationalize. Let me tell you why. A Lotta this came as such a shock to me and a lot of your listeners. We know we'll be as appalled by this as anything else, but. I thought the future of the Republican Party and the kind of person that I would have on. My show has got a Paul Ryan. and you know as a reformist and what Paul was going through in the latter years worth he was actually. After he lost in two thousand twelve. He was going around in a war of central cities to try to understand. What was going on? He was making this effort to start lesson now he was, he had moved past the makers and takers stuff He was spending time with a guy named Robert Woodson. And, I thought you know. Here's this is a smart guy. You can disagree with Paul I know you disagree with Paul, but I think he was a fundamentally decent person to watch him be swept away by trumpism. These are two polar opposite views of the future of the party, and we know by the end of twenty sixteen. To Watch as Republicans in Wisconsin decisively rejected Paul Ryan and embraced Donald, trump was an extraordinary thing and I think the Republican. Party is simply accelerated this where they've gone dumber meaner cruder. Across the board I thought there'd be more resistance to what trump was trying to do. Trump hasn't changed, but he's shooting the Party and the grass roots away. That is that it's going to have long long term at damage I want to ask you that what I mean. Trump may be gone in January he certainly will be gone for years from January, if not January increasingly looking like it will be January. But what happens next in the Republican Party? Because first of all, he's not going to go away I. Mean He may hijack another media outlet and use that as his base, but he's GonNa. Be Out there agitating. What does the future for the Republican Party that Charlie Sykes in his heart of hearts would love to see versus the Republican. Party that is today I. Don't Consider Myself Republic anymore. Mainly because I don't want to be part of any tribe I. Don't think whatever I would hope it would be. Is something that I'm going to get or or we're going to see, and this is why you point that number one trump doesn't go away. And in Trumpian politics at home I can articulate this. You know the the grievance. Politics doesn't mind losing. I know this may sound a little bit paradoxical because he's all about winning and everything, but if both. The style of politics all about indulging your feelings. Feeling aggrieved. And, therefore actually having responsibility is not necessarily an asset, so you know his folks are still going to be out there. Unless there's a you know, it's a it's. Overwhelming landslide victory, but he don't even count on. And I think that the way the party has shown its willingness to be adapted. That's going to be hard to come back from because you're going to have people like Tom. Cotton and Josh Holly trump will perhaps a little bit more competence coming along plus I think we've just discovered is what the Republican base is prepared to accept, because look I mean they're not about fiscal responsibility or free trade They're not about it being more inclusive mean what is it is it is about this tribal loyalty, and whoever taps in with a grievance and makes them feel. They know trump can never lose right David he can only be betrayed run. He can only he can only be cheated, so you will have an angrier an angry, bitter aggrieved party that will see itself as victimized, and then, of course they will do what they do best and I certainly know this they will unite in opposition to whatever the Democrats in power do. Get, that's really that's their naturally there. They really do know they may not be. Clear about what they're four, but they're definitely clear about what they're aganst. And now a word from our sponsors, we'll be right back with more of the X. Files. Do, we need a new capitalism. Has the coronavirus pandemic been a wakeup call for CEO's and leaders around the world this week on boss fouls, I talked to salesforce, founder, and CEO Mark Benny off about his call for what he says. Is the need from work, compassionate capitalism and the responsibility of businesses to think about all of their stakeholders. Not just their shareholders tune into boss files wherever you get your podcast. What has been like for you. Now you you pier on Msnbc you run the bulwark, which is often critical of the president. You know what do your old friends said to you I should have gone back and looked at what your social media feed is like, but I'm sure that it's not all bouquets and hugs and kisses now I I I wish i. had old friends anymore There's there's been an alien nation. And you know by the end of Twenty Sixteen I'm and I felt I was being excommunicated, and by the way I understand why others have been. You know unwilling to break with trump because it's not just that you take a position you. Could you lose your whole social universe I mean we talk about tribalism, but tribalism is a network of people and Network of of folks who? Are Part of your support network. They're your friends. And in the current environment you break with trump and it's gone. I'm not playing the victim card here. what I do say about some of my old friends like say, let's say Paul. Ryan is that we're? We're taking a break from one another and seeing other people so. I hope at some point. There'll be some conversation about like. That was some crazy ship. I I will say that it's it's. It's. It's been hard. To realize that I am. Really frankly disliked and despised by many of the people that. Listen to me for twenty years and decided that the support of trump was the mountain. They were willing to die on. Did you have to leave that show? I mean. Could you have kept on doing that? Show live? Yes, and no, they're actually at another year on my contract, so it was completely voluntary. I decided to do it long before the election for personal reasons. But I don't know the answer to your question. About, could I have actually continued at? What would have happened? if in two thousand seventeen. If I continue to say what I was thinking and was going to say about trump. I would have lost the audience. I would have been every single day going in and realizing that it was swimming upstream there was. Trump that was there were maybe one or two issues where I knew that I was cross ways with the audience, but it was very rare. so it would have been incredibly painful, and it probably would have ended badly. You would have been like Howard Beale at the end of his a at the end there when you change your point of view and lose your audience, which was. which is unacceptable to to to the broadcasters? They were invested in Charlie Sykes. As Charlie Sykes was not Charlie Sykes the critic of trump. No. Rain in the end of of of two thousand sixteen and I didn't think it was GONNA be a bad as it was so when I left in December of twenty. Sixteen you know I had every every Republican you can think of called into the show and participated in the farewells and I was Ed at dinner and I'm staying next to Tommy Thompson in the various members of the congressional. Delegation, Governor Yep I look back on that now. Realize you know that that now I mean. This is like a completely different world because they all by going to pick on Tommy. They, they've all gone. No full trump Ron Johnson, we what the Hell and Scott Walker is become Charlie. Kirk on twitter and it. The Rick Wilson says everything trump touches dies, but to watch this transformation up close people that I've known for many years has been amazing. So, yeah, it's it's not it's not. It's not been fun the part that's the strangest for me. Though are the ones who say you sold out she now you get to go to all these cocktail parties in Georgetown. I'm sitting in my freaking basement here in MEK one. Parties anywhere and so You know when you when you when you lose your entire universe. That's not that's not necessarily a way of you know cashing in so tax your Wisconsin insights because Wisconsin could well be Ground Zero in two thousand and twenty Joe Biden has held a steady but small lead in polling in. Person Rarely over fifty. And if you talk to people on both sides say. Well, there are a lot of unregistered white voters who fit the trump profile. They might play a role here. I mean. How do you size up the situation or as Donald Trump over the last three months just sealed his fate in your in your view, I don't I. Don't think it's over I think it will be closer in Wisconsin Wisconsin is keep in mind that I'm not sure what the exact numbers are, but we're very close to Michigan in having some of the lowest percentage of. College educated voters in the electorate I'm not seeing tremendous erosion of support in the in the hardcore trump base, but going back to our earlier conversation. He's lagging in the key suburbs and he's going to have to for trump to win. He's going to have to come up with these unregistered. White rural voters in northern and western Wisconsin and I don't know that there are enough of them to counter the big variable in. Wisconsin is the intensity of the democratic vote. Madison Dane County question about it. They have been turning out in massive numbers. They actually turned out for Hillary Clinton Milwaukee, being more of question, but I think that if if anything that Supreme Court election that you mentioned was an indication that the democratic enthusiasm is extremely high, and they're doing a much better job. Turning out the vote, it used to be that. That Republicans this is one of the legacies of of reince Priebus and Paul Ryan and Scott Walker as they created this massive. Get out the vote effort here in Wisconsin and they were way better than the Democrats at it. I'm not sure that's the case anymore. First of all they're all gone, and the Democrats appear to be quite arouse so I think I. Think Wisconsin. Is I agree? It's going to be a tipping point but I think it's going to be very close here. You know on the subject of turning out. The vote you witnessed would happen in Wisconsin before the primary. The governor wanted to postpone the primary as other governors did because of covid nineteen The legislature overruled him in the supreme. Court. The State Supreme Court upheld the legislature. Say State Supreme Court has. A conservative Republican majority. Even though it's a nonpartisan office extensively, and what happened was there was a huge I think. Eighty percent of the vote was done by mail absentee ballots, but in the city of Milwaukee there were one hundred seventy polling places they shrunk. They only were able to open five. Now there's this big battle over this right in voting. What's going to happen there? And what from your perspective know? It strikes me. Republicans used to love absentee ballots. I used to be great at it. It was a big strength of Republicans. Now it's become a sin to vote by mail. How do you interpret all of this and the impact? It might have the I think that the there's GonNa be a lot of backlash. Backlash to what happened of those scenes from Milwaukee I think we're pretty horrific I think you can have a backlash in Wisconsin like the backlash in Georgia to to all of this No part of it is is that our politics in Wisconsin it's incredibly dysfunctional and I'll be honest with you. I think the The the Democratic governor here could've handled that a lot better. the Republican legislature you know was. Performed the way they usually performed but To your point about the mail in voting. I think one of the most dangerous things Republicans are doing right now. is saying the quiet part out loud about not wanting the maximum number of people to vote. The the way that voter suppression. has become just part of the routine of Republican politics now and the way that people will openly talk about it that you know when when Donald Trump says. You know if everybody's allowed to vote, we would never have a Republican winning again. Well, if that's the mentality. Then, you're in a very dangerous place politically so I'm also very very concerned about the November election, and whether or not in whether or not we're going to have a replay of two thousand over the hanging chads and. Controversy about that well, you pointed out that you know. There are two outcomes as far as presidents concern either he wins, or it's stolen. There's no third option, so you know if all of this adds to and you know, look malign forces all over the world starting with the Russians, who will Russian and no pun intended, and and try and influence. People's thinking about the integrity of the election. No and And that's and that's exactly the way I'm concerned about it because the damage can be long term where it's not just who wins and loses, but but whether or not there will be a concerted effort to de legitimize the election de-legitimize our democracy and I think that that's another. One of the prices were paying from from Donald Trump. So you know I mean one of the things that I've said over and over again. Now trump is often I made it clear where I stand on Donald, trump but to a certain extent, Donald Trump doesn't bother me because I mean with the. Maybe back. Trump is trump. He is exactly. We thought he was going to obey. He is living his life. He's doing his thing. The the worst damage that's being done. By all the people who've enabled him and the damage, he's done the political culture the damage you can do to our constitutional norms and he's being allowed to do this so at the end of four years if if if he finally leaves office, but he's left these constitutional norms in tatters, the country is bitterly divided as ever and the legitimacy of our democracy question. This will be a horrific legacy, and you can't separate that from the what the Republican Party has allowed him to do. And therefore, whether Republican Party has become back in January and February after the impeachment his numbers were rising. The economy looks strong, and the speculation was. He's in relatively good shape. for reelection. How do you rate his chances? Now it is interesting. You think back to what you were thinking three months ago. What the world looked like three months ago? Look maybe I suffer from post. Traumatic stress disorder like everybody else. Having had experienced what happened in in twenty sixteen. But it does feel as if you have multiple collapses. If at the moment, the American people were paying attention to him. You have the economic problems you have mishandling of the corona virus. You have his huntingdale approach to the issues that are dividing us on on race, and he's not getting any of those right now. He can spin those. He'll get his base behind him. He'll play the victim card. But how do you get reelected? You have double digit unemployment, hundred and fifty. Fifty thousand dead Americans in the country. Realizing the you are just have no empathy for the divisions that were experiencing right now so I think he's on the wrong side of all of those, and you know it's one thing to vote for a guy who's GonNa, be the chaos candidate who will burn it all down and it's another thing to realize that you're living in the country, and it's burning down so i. AM feeling. The law and order candidate when you flout the laws and create disorder wherever you go I. Don't know how you Richard Nixon ran on the law and order platform. He was wondering resident thousand American trump. Divided own. He's not helping. Are So. It's a really tough row to Hoe. And as you point out, you know, the base is not big enough. He needs to add to the base, and he is shrinking his possibilities by the day Charlie Sykes. You're a good man. It's good to talk to you. I enjoyed our last conversation I enjoyed this conversation. I hope it'll be a one of many in the years to come. We'll thanks. Thank you so much has been fine. Thank you for listening to the X.. Files brought to you by the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN audio. The executive producer of the acts files. Is Emily Standards? The show also produced by Miriam Annenberg. Samantha Neil and Allison Seagull. And special thanks to our partners at CNN including. Courtney Coop Mega Marcus and Ashley less. For more programming from I O P visit, politics dot EU, CHICAGO DOT EDU.

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Post-Convention Politics & The Dark Force Farce

Hacks on Tap with David Axelrod and Mike Murphy

1:10:11 hr | Last month

Post-Convention Politics & The Dark Force Farce

"This episode of Hacks on tap is presented by a brand new documentary podcast series. We highly recommend called. It was said, which was written and narrated by our friend Pulitzer Prize winning and best selling author historian Jon Meacham it explores tended the most powerful important and timeless speeches in American history. It was said created, directed and produced by see thirteen original studios is available now wherever. You listen to podcasts and we can't recommend this important series enough. Please listen. Well, it's a mad house here at acts on tap hacker route studios because acts is so excited to share with you a brand new limited documentary podcast series called. It was said that we highly recommend this series will move you teach you and inspire you, and frankly is a must-listen especially in these times. And especially, if you're a history, not like we are the ten episode documentary, Podcast Limited Series Explores and brings to life ten of the most historic speeches in American history it was said was written and narrated by Pulitzer Prize winning and bestselling author and historian Jon. meacham. A good friend of both of ours and it was created directed and produced by peabody nominated see thirteen original studio in association with history in covering some of the most impactful and timeless speeches. In American history, it would said draws on a selection powerful figures like Martin, Luther King Ronald Reagan Jfk John Lewis Edward R Murrow, Barbara Jordan and more and. Puts you in these moments in time that are still so relevant and important today meacham will offer expert insight and analysis is only he can into their origins, the orator, the context of the time they were given and why they're still relevant today and the importance of never forgetting them. Each episode of this documentary series will also bring together some of the top historians, authors, journalists, all relevant, each respective speech and figure together context and inspiration for this generation and every generation after it was set is now available to subscribe and listen for free on apple podcasts, spotify radio, DOT COM and wherever you listen to your podcasts. A pulpit share tax on tap with David Axelrod and Mike Murphy. I'd. Ask. Yourself. Why looked like a radical socialist with a soft for riders? Really. I want to safe America. SAFE from covert. SAFE from crime and looted safe from racially motivated violence safe from bad cops. Let me be crystal. Clear. Safe from four more years of Donald Trump will murphy that kind of cuts to the. The. Crux of it does you know Joe. Biden. is really a frustrating target for Donald Trump because he doesn't look the part. of the radical left-wing Socialists whose tearing society apart. Well you know I I thought that was a great line. When he said you know look at me I'm not a radical socialist I can tell you in the spirit of Jack Benny I was thinking for a minute but no I i. don't think he is I think there are some headwinds in one wing of his party, but I thought that was great. Political. Move in a needed one to get out in front and define himself and not be swept up, and you know all trump's rhetoric to try to move the campaign to something other than firing. Trump's a great day for Biden good speech and Let's talk about it with our guest. Today we have A. Hacker ru joining us you want to introduce David introduced David Work Together, I show. Well, we actually we will be working together. Because a disavow demissie is gonNA be a a fellow at University of Chicago, Institute of Politics this fall. But most recently, he he managed the the Democratic National Convention for the Biden Campaign I worked with our Buddy Stephanie Cutter who who managed it from the DNC side and AMD before that was cory, Booker's campaign manager and one of the brightest lights I dealt with during that campaign as I was covering that campaign for CNN. So welcome my friend. Yeah. Well, thank you good to be here with two of the greatest acts. ACURAS. While the oldest acts, that's probably truer to to the point there. But Unite before we get into, I want we we are at this pivotal moment in the campaign and I. Really you know we should lay it out as it is before we do want your quick thoughts on the RNC from the standpoint of someone who was deeply involved in constructing the DNC what was what what did they accomplish? What didn't they accomplish? What was your sense watching it as a? Competing producer yeah. I I don't think they accomplished much but you know our convention the Democratic. Convention was intended to both sort of solidify our base and reach out to disaffected Republicans moderates independence who may have voted for trump and twenty sixteen. But who are are skeptical. Now, if not totally decided not to vote for him this time and and I think we accomplish both those things trump essentially doubled down on his base which was already with him. To start with and you know made a few token Appear. Attempts to outreach to to the center but even the polling we've seen from ABC and others. This week has shown that it didn't really move the needle for him. It certainly moved the needle for the Democrats in terms of Biden's favorability rating at least at this point that's what I'm looking at I'm not looking at the Horse Race of looking at do people you don't like Joe Biden, do they like Donald Trump? Do they think he deserves four more years? Do they think? Biden will be a viable replacement and I think Democrats did what we needed to do as in terms of putting Biden in that position and Trump. Just did more of the same. We've seen for three and a half years and I don't think it's going to do much for having a long run. Did you guys expect anything different though because trump's always says what I call primary itis every everything to him is a Republican primer I I don't know if he got the memo that he won So I that was the trump convention i. kind of expected doubling down on the voters has which are not the voters. He needs I give them a better grade than I would have going in just based on the general incompetence I see around trump land that they were smart enough not to be too ambitious with production pick one set. A fairly attractive place in the mental library and just locked down and then two big set pieces and you can argue about the use of you know some of those buildings I, find it offensive. But from a pure television point of view I think they did do a pretty good job in optics. I thought the Penn speech looked really good. Yeah. I thought the offensive is the kind of you know dictator for life aspect of the White House name was it was visually good TV So I'll I'll give the Republicans a little benefit there but the medically I agree it was you were worried they do though the thought that might be a better fastball I feel like they trotted every Republican person of color out there to try to in my opinion had nothing to do with appealing to voters of color but trying to make white voters politically suburban white voters except in the audience at the White House that. That was kind of bizarre the reverse shot where we're all those black friends of Donald Trump. Exactly. There are too smart to be there. To help. That is exactly right. But nine hours of you know playing this game of of showing that you know no seriously, he's not a racist and then suddenly you go to this one hour of trump doing trump things at the White House with an all white audience et Cetera so I did think you know. I thought they might change especially because you know. This was their last best opportunity certainly before the debates to to to make any kind of pivot but it turns out Donald Trump is donald trump and donald trump Republican party is not going to let that happen. Let me just limits pose the alternative theory here not that Donald Trump isn't donald trump I. think that theory's been proven but I'm I'm talking about what they were trying to do The fact of the matter is he is a base only guy and their theory has always been that there are enough. White particularly white non college voters out there to win and they need to get some of the suburban vote back in and you know they've adopted a strategy and that should lead into the discussion of where we are right now I mean the convention was really the most forceful roll out of a strategy, which is that you know anarchists and looters and rioters. Arsonists in parenthesis black people are destroying the country and America's cities. They're gonNA creep up on the border like The mccloskey's warned you they're gonNA, they're gonNA come to your house next and be very afraid and you know and there's a reason for this. I mean. It may not be you know I I'm not making a value judgment about the strategy or about its ultimate efficacy. If, you're the president of the United States and you're presiding over a pandemic in which over one hundred, eighty thousand people have now died and largely judged to have mishandled it and you were gonNA run on an economy that is now in the ditch with over ten percent unemployment, we'll see where the numbers at the end of this week many small businesses gone You know he needs an alternative narrative and his his style is to try and change the subject and he spent the whole convention trying to do that. the pandemic made you know only cameo appearances, but it isn't a cameo in the lives of American so that that's his problem but he's doubling down the anti on the on this anti Murphy. He's headed to Kenosha today he you know last night he came out. at a press conference that was extensively about Cova de to two minutes on all miraculous things that are happening with covert, and then the rest of it was just a screed on on Biden which he followed up on look I've been around race all my life in politics I covered it as a reporter I've seen it as a strategist worked for a lot of candidates of color. And in venues where they were a breaking barriers down to to their election I think this is a serious. It's a serious issue, Murphy I don't. You know you've seen it to I. Think this what he's playing his audacious it's disgusting in many ways but but we shouldn't dismiss the fact that it could have power Oh not at all look trump's problem is so clumsy if he were more deft. Some, you know some of those issues. Do, have power I. Think Trump's mistake has been as usual overplaying it doing it in a way that alienate suburban voters he's trying to get now that said if I were judging the first couple of days out of the convention, I would scorn for trump until yesterday when biden kind of rick locked narrative because it is a fact that the more. Ultra Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party is a target rich environment for the Republicans and you've seen plenty of that, and the rhetoric Biden's job is to not let that define him as the key element of the election and in the primary he did a pretty good job of that. He kind of went to his Biden Path and ultimately after some early setbacks he prevailed with it but he can't let that go and I think yesterday he moved to reclaim that ground but you know if you back. Up We have been talking about looting and violence and tension for the last a week plus and that's not bad for trump if that that debate is not the debate of firing trump is not the debate of covid and it's not the debate of the economy falling off the cliff. So I think Biden. Moved aggressively yesterday maybe a day or two late but he did it and I think you'll have to prosecute for awhile to reset the race back back on fire Donald Trump is kind. Of, wants to be. But yeah, anytime we're debating whether or not the Democratic Party is tough enough on looters and there's just enough noise from the activists left to cloud this up a little bit. They're not helping Biden you know trump trump's got some oxygen and if I were bide being into cutting off oxygen and I, think he again made a big move in that way you know with the speech which I thought was excellent dramatically right on and I like quickly that he's opening up this. New Front of a message I've always thought which wait a minute. I'm the stability guy you know the cities are on fire the academy screwed up covert is a clown show because of Donald Trump you know I'm the opposite of that I'm Mr Safety and I think that's a powerful move for Biden any ought to stay on it every day the do it seems like to me that burden is is is threading a needle here because there is a a a great deal of outrage about. Police involved shootings of of black people of. Color. African Americans it is a You know it is a crisis but You know the other hand he doesn't want to side with those who've taken the protests to. Looting arson rioting, and so on How do you feel he struck that balance yesterday? I think yesterday was about as good as I've seen them and and I do think it's a needle, but it's not a needle with the particularly small opening here I mean peaceful protests good. Violent protest bad is is the message and it's the one that that Biden's been saying since the beginning of this back in back in May. June. And just reiterated it yesterday as forcefully as as I've seen him do it but it is not hard to before peaceful protests end against protests against those who are trying to exploit this moment for their own. Ends that are not racial justice and justice in policing and and what have you and so I agree one hundred percent with what makes said as well, which is, which is as the more we're talking about this the less we're talking about what Joe Biden wants to talk about, and frankly as you said, what Americans want to talk about, which is our country is in the midst of crisis that has been made worse by and in some instances been caused by Donald Trump, and his presidency and and those primarily are the Cova crisis and the economic crisis that comes from it and so. Shifting back to that turf is good for for Joe. Biden's exactly what he tried to do yesterday and I think did did very effectively and I do think this is a a blip the this conversation that we're having right now because the Republicans had Donald. Trump had four days to essentially put this front and center. But we've got nine weeks to go and I think the American this is not a Cami over the American people covert as it is still number one issue and it's where this. This campaign is going to be fought for for the rest of it's Joe Biden stuff. All right. Let's take a minute to hear from one of our esteem sponsors. Mike One of the most foundational experiences of my young life was the nineteen sixty election with John, F. Kennedy when a razor thin victory over Richard Nixon for president, and now you can relive it with a new podcast sixty twenty which tells the story of the election of nineteen sixty decided by just two tenths of a percent. 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Biden did two things a few things yesterday I thought were important One is that he was unequivocal in his positioning on on the riots in in in some of the destruction that's been done. Let's let's take a listen to that clip. Riding is not protested looting is not protesting setting fires is not protesting. None of this protesting is lawlessness plain and simple. And those do it should be prosecuted. Yeah there you go. Yeah that that was very very clear. But the other thing he did was challenged trump to to to make the same unequivocal statement to his own supporters essentially saying I am against violence wherever it emanates from including violence against citizens of from police But you know the president is unwilling to make that Declaration and a little bit later in the day trump. Responded to by at this press conference, and here's what he had to say about this caravan of people, supporters of his who gathered in the suburbs and rode into Portland I in a caravan miles long with paintball guns to shoot at protesters One of the one of the vigilantes ended up being a shot in in all of this. But here's what trump said when he was asked about these these folks who who stirred who came into. PORTLAND. Essentially to stir up. Trouble. The, Seine they had large numbers of people that were supporters but that was a peaceful protest and paint and paint as a defensive mechanism. Paint is not bullets your supporters, your supporters, and they are year supporters indeed date shot a young gentleman who and killed him. Not with paint but with a bullet. And I think it's disgraceful. These people protested peacefully. They went in very peacefully. Murphy, he went on to defend the the seventeen year old kid who drove to. Kenosha with an a semiautomatic weapon and ended up killing two people he's now been charged with. Six crimes including first degree homicide and the president really laid out the argument that this kid was just acting in self defense. Doesn't just make Biden's point I think. So you know again trump is always you can tell trump is feeling like it's slipping away from him because he's jabbing Kinda wildly he's. Focused on quote his people he sees the world through this prism of two hockey teams and Oh my team went out there and they only use paint. Ball guns on people. Therefore, they're the good guys I mean it's just it's a quagmire form of style and it it does fuel the fire I don't think his version of kind of the Frank Rizzo School of policing. Is Going to get his folks back. So that said it is a limited victory for trump whenever we're talking about disorder and I frankly think the governor of Washington needs to get a phone call from somebody in the Democratic Party and say look this Portland thing has gone on for months and months and months you know we have national guards we have curfews, they can step it up a little bit or we're going to have the nightly Portland. Show was going to take over the campaign that's better for trump than biden even with Biden, doing a better job of pushing back. So well, the governor of Washington be interested in getting that called the Governor Oregon probably would. Oh. Sorry. Late night poker game but you. Take my point kate the good governor of Oregon there's something going wrong and Portland in it there needs to be you know you know you know what that is true, but it is also true that when the when the situation Portland was calming down trump's sent in federal agents and it all got inflamed again, the situation important was coming get down get then and this miles long caravan came in and stirred the thing up. We're about see the same thing and Kenosha, I. Mean. This is what he does. He he he is I I saw the lieutenant governor of Wisconsin. Say this yesterday it's like a big barrel of gasoline coming in to the fire is what he does. He wants it to happen and so it is if you are governor Brown or if you are the mayor of Portland or if you're the mayor of Kenosha Governor Uber's Wisconsin. You are you you are trying to put out the fire. You have this great big barrel of gasoline from the White House that keeps shooting at it and it's up to us. Honestly it's up to the press others to to not take the bait at some level because there's only so much you can do the White House is a big platform. He's he's got a big bully pulpit to try to that guy i. hear you guys on all that and I know trump is the ultimate arsonist fireman needs setting the fire and then running around the corner with a fire hat on five minutes later, saying pay me to put out the fire. But the point is we're talking about trump's agenda set. Now in yesterday was Biden's first big move to re clock I. Applaud that and Biden I woke department of the Biden campaign might have slowed them down a few days before he could say you know lueders ought to be prosecuted he did and now I think it's turning Biden's way. But again, if I were the Democratic governor of Oregon, there's things I can do to help because you the litigation on blamed place to trump getting portland headlines getting it. So trump supporters can't do suv parades through crowds by controlling things tighter even if you get into the curfew business for a while. That's going to be important. A distant could keep going and that is good for trump. Yeah. One question I have for you guys as if you're biding yes he made a very good speech yesterday. I think he hit all the right notes but what do you do? You know what strategically should you do because trump's gonna continue this now do you just wait and counterpunch and hope that he oversteps as he undoubtedly will as you know and we`ll He went he went even or later in the evening on Laura Ingraham Show which will here in a second but do you my thought was do you carve that spot up that he did do you carve that speech up and and do a sixty second spot and run it you know and try and make sure because what the hard thing is he doesn't have the megaphone that trump has he doesn't have the White House, he can't command national. You can't command the sort of attention that trump does in part because he won't light himself on fire the way trump does but you know that speech can fade pretty quickly and a lot of people will not have seen it. Oh Yeah. I would I mean I. I. would just say look we have ten days to move the needle on Joe Biden. Is For law and order people know Joe. Biden's police perform, and you know for social justice he he's he's doing right there. But he he needs to buttresses up and I think he he can't which it away of one speech he now has the messaging right I think Biden. Has Two challenges. One is to protect his flank on this stuff and he's he's making progress. He's got the right message now. So go all in Gaul in force it through, and then pivot taking the economy away from trump because that is still trump's lifeline that is perceived as better economic manager and I don't want to be Joe Biden going through October with a mania in the media about coming vaccines and trump fanning the fire of that whether it's true. Or not and people thinking about who can reset the economy and being behind Donald trump in that perception I think if he can do those things, he will hold his position and when when race but I I don't think. I, think you're right on this David giving one really good speech doesn't make it go away particularly when as I think these was somebody said. Trump's going to be in this business as long as he can get away with it. So I would I would engage. I agree. I. Don't think you cannot not engage I think I. Think you gotTa counterpunching pivot. You know not to get too boxing analogy on it, but you gotta spin off of this a little bit as well and I think that's more than the the direct counter attack on on. Law and order that the Joe Biden made yesterday. It was also the to me the most effective piece was he is the chaos candidate Donald. Trump is candidate for four years. He's been the chaos candidate and he is the problem. Let's listen to that. Keeps telling me. He was president your feel safe while he is president whether he knows it or not. Whether he knows it or not. Yeah. Nice. By the way, I got to plug who was the most accurate pundit an all of American politics for once not me predicting trump would be the chaos presidency before anybody else did he's totally thought. Governor Jeb Bush said it during the campaign. And he? was totally right about this is where we only reason that he was out front on that was that nobody at that time actually contemplated the reality that trump could be president. And that was a big mistake because here we here we are. Let's take a minute to do an ad be right back. Well. Access episode is brought to you by what we like to call the spoon magic spoon. Yeah, and I I love it. You know I can't I. Don't have my pajamas with feed anymore I don't have my special cereal bowl but I can still eat cereal and you know why? Because of Magic Spoon I've been trying to cut down on carbs and sugar on unhealthy food I realized I basically can't eat anything anymore but magic spoon makes it possible to eat cereal again absolutely acts and the good thing about magic spoon that let you have that serial experience in a healthy way. I. Mean Look at the ingredients zero sugar. Twelve grams of protein and only three net grams of carbs in each serving four flavors cocoa, fruity frosted, and my personal favorite blueberry. It tastes amazing. Honestly just about too good to be true. No kidding. Yeah I mean I love that cocoa but they're all good. 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He's going there to increase enthusiasm but not enthusiasm for American, Uzi he thinks it's going to cruise increase enthusiasm among his voters. Everything is M and We is and that I think and I think that Trent when that becomes. Transparent and Biden hammered away at this yesterday I think it is a you know his strength then becomes or what he perceives as strength then becomes his weakness I mean he's define the mayor, the police chief, the governor everyone asked him not to come and he's coming on the less. So we'll see what happens We'll see what happens today. So later in the evening, he went to see Laura Ingram where she came to see him I don't even like to mention because he's not controlling anything controlling Biden strings is it former Obama email that you've never heard of? People that are in the dark shadows people that what does that mean? That sounds like conspiracy theory dark show example that you haven't heard of the people that are on the streets there are people that are controlling the streets even Laura. Ingram. Had to interject and try and save trump from himself in his clip when he met something by the way and. When she said well, that sounds like a conspiracy theory were trump you know where trump says that Hints that he biden is not hints says by not being controlled by dark forces they're the people who are on the streets there the. You know that the question is, how far does that? Go you know before it just boomerangs on him and he looks Like what is well, it gets much worse because if this eight point data is true and you know I think polls are lagging indicator. He's hit about the most bottom. He can. It's not like the Laura Ingram audiences now going to be, oh, my goodness, racial sensitivities killing me I'm going to switch to away in negate no of course of course, but but the but but that clip went viral and it was on all the news casts outside of Fox News this morning. I'm just saying I think there's an up, you know now on the flip side I I gotTa tell you guys the story back in nineteen eighty three I was covering the mayoral race in Chicago Jane. Byrne was the incumbent mayor. she had a lot of a lot of problems She's being challenged by rich daily who ultimately became air years later and Harrow Washington the first african-american to make a serious challenge for mayor. Late in the race daily was taking white too many white votes from burn. She decided to go full racial she showed up at a housing project and I'm watching the news covering this race and watching the news there she is walking through Cabrini-green and she's being essentially a hassle jostled pushed around by. Residents of Cabrini-green and I'm thinking where's her detail? Why aren't they around her and the answer was that was exactly the picture they wanted on TV that night and I thought about that when I saw rand Paul leaving the White House and pro you know dem demonstrators jostling him I wondered by the way why he wasn't why he was ushered out the way. He was ushered out but you know you, you heard the you heard the Biden folks exulting about these pictures and others like it Kellyanne Conway saying if you know this is the more disorder the better for us you mean the trump folks trump. Yeah. Yeah. To say you said the bite said, no, no, no, the terrarium trouble there you got. Wait a second man at least I know who the governor of Oregon is anyway now go ahead. But yeah. So I mean I do think those images have to be concerning to Democrats, and this goes to your point before my Democrats have to you know. It is not in their interest is not in the country's interest, but is also not in their interest to allow these pictures of trump by the same token. I think that trump thinks it is in his interest and therefore he is not averse to stirring up trouble. Absolutely. No that's I. Think we are taping this before he goes to Kenosha but I think this is exactly why he is going to Kenosha he wants to be protested he wants to be shouted down he wants to stir up trouble in a place that was you know healing after what happened to Jacob Blake, and what's happened over the last week or so starting to calm down, he can't afford for it to calm down. He wanted to heat up he wants Rand Paul Picture to go out there and I do think that is something that Democrats don't want or need but this is what You were saying before this sort of the power of the presidency where he goes cameras follow and where he goes protests follows for very good reason and so it's going to be a difficult. That's a difficult needle to thread because it's something over which the Biden campaign and the Democratic Party has no control and it's you know it's Catnip for the press and I don't mean that pejoratively it's just it's. It's very hard to not cover the president of the United States, going to a protest hotspot and being protested and and so I think t to that end what what Mike, what you were saying. Earlier. The Biden campaign probably has to do a lot of this through paid media and not just through earned media. They have to put ads out there and put content into social media that pushes their message and just not be afraid to counterpunch and put it right back on trump and characterize it for what it is, which is him stewing chaos for political game. I'm a big fan of using September drain the energy at of issues. I don't want to deal with an October, and so I think engaging with Biden doing his officer Oh biden routine and allowed and unshoveled wake Biden campaign I think. Is Realizing that there? They've got the woke vote woke votes done net. Now we're into scared white suburbanites. Okay. So reassuring the Biden you know gets the cop part of the good cop part of the equation member. Biden has the police unions. They can have some good media with real cops who play like real good cops saying look you know you want things back to normalcy with the law and order president is not out of his mind making our job worse making situation worse. You know you got Joe. Biden. Okay. Let's take a break right here for word from our sponsor and we'll be right back. While, you know the stress of daily life ways on all particularly in this era of politics. 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If it subsides and if trump doesn't succeed and stirring it up yet but the third or fourth stirrup starts to be weaker ones Biden's established himself is being on the lawn or he'll. He'll you know trump is responding to a perceived opportunity that you know Biden is an oh as C. beatty as left wing police suspicious. Democrat and Biden's not that guy is a speech made clear yesterday. So if the by guys make some piven and WanNa and this thing has less energy in ten or twelve days. What's the best move to pivot to the economy and how does Biden prosecute that case because to me? That's the ballgame. You know I think well, we'll get a little bit of clue on this on Friday when the jobs numbers come out but you know I I think one of the controlling factors in this campaign in DC I'm interested in your view on. This is GonNa to be the path of this virus and how quickly you know progress can can be made in terms of. You know and I think the answer is. Very little toward normalcy. I think we're in a status quo situation until there's a vaccine and You know you see schools now, New York City today postponed the of the opening of their schools. By several weeks I just think that you know the college stuff is going poorly i. I just think there are. The promised trump is a reality show and realities encroaching on him, and there's only so much. He can do to change the subject and at some point, it's going to appear You know his unwillingness to talk about the actual state of the country is, is GonNa be a evident and is going to be more and more of a problem for him and they need to weapon is that Democrats need to weapon I says Biden began to do yesterday has he's been trying to do the other things I. Don't think that they. You know you in this were Murphy and I may part. I don't think should except that trump's economic record obviously where we are today is dismal who has benefited is also not a good message for most of America and I think both of those I mean pound away at that I buy DC on I I have to tell you the one critique I have of the Democratic convention which I thought was excellent and really well done much better than I think anybody anticipated could be done in such a short period of time was The absence of a sustained discussion on the economy it was Kinda shoehorned into a place on Wednesday. Night probably could've used about twenty percent more economy in that presentation. It's a fair critique I. Think we did as much as we could to tie, and this is where I would point the Biden campaign to as well and I know they're thinking about this tied trump's mismanagement of the cova crisis to his inability to manage the recovery and covert is still the number. One issue in America people are still at. Home it's been six months. Nothing has changed. Nothing has gotten better and when it's gotten better to mealy gotten worse and I think trump has the this is his sort of enduring strength as he has not just three years of being president but fifteen years of being the number one rated TV show in America and thirty years of a brand as being a businessman that is going to be very difficult to break through in the in the last two months of this campaign. So I think the best strategy is. The Cova crisis where people remain at home businesses remain closed people continue to lose their jobs to tie has an ability to to to tackle this crisis effectively and manage it to prove the case or to at least be evidence for the case that he is unable to unable to to fix this economy and Dulles back better as Joe Biden says, and so to me the the chaos versus versus steadiness is obviously a critical piece of this but the ability of Joe Biden to The ability of Joe Biden to Make sure that that this campaign is about Donald trump as about his inability to to manage his inability to get us to the next stage of Our economic growth is is how we're GONNA make an economic case that actually resonates with the American people. You know what surprises me is. They don't lean into surrogates on that more. They've got some you know gate ner Type Clinton and Obama era people who. Can claim to be part of a management team that ran a great economy. You know the buffets of the world to from outside government and I think joe ought to be surrounded by those people because Joe doesn't have any built in economic credibility trump has this perception that he was the wizard of the economy whether it's true or false, and I'm not asking Democrats to accept anything. But I I've been sitting in these endless focus groups in Florida for Republican voters against trump with these undecided suburbanites and you know we try the Cova disaster equals economic disaster argument and the pushback we get is look we know trump's kind of a clown but he didn't create covid it could have happened any president. And so you know when they find a cure, what trump knows how to do is do the economy we throw a bunch of spots Adam and everything, and it's kind of hard slogging. Biden is very undefined on the academy. There's no biden equals good economic management there at all binds a nice guy in a long-term Washington politician. So it's just it's the thing that bugs me because I think we could have a vaccine mania it's coming. It's coming. It's great even. Before might be and trump. Of course, is already tried to stack the FDA with campaign hacks, control the messaging. Yeah it's perfect. You're going to get it in a week and so that's just I. I think that is a code the Biden people have to crack next. So I'm going to be interested in watching how they they tackle it look I, don't know that and I. I would with Tim Geithner work with Larry. Summers. I have high regard for them. I'm not sure. Who is are the right people out there, and there is a story to tell for. Biden are around his economic advocacy but I I also I. also think that there are questions to be raised about who the economy that trump claims to have built up. Emmy Great Economies Biden said and it isn't great now but Be Accepting that people give him credit for it questions who who, who benefited from that, and who will benefit in the future I. Think there is room there I do want to say this Relative to our earlier discussion you ask you talk you guys talk about maximizing you talk about him speaking to his base. Here's their theory. Okay. Wisconsin. Eighty, six, percent white state forty, seven percent of the vote was non college white voters in two, thousand and and sixteen. They see hundreds of thousands of people who haven't been reached who fit that cohort trump got sixty, two percent of them. They want to maximize they wanNA, bring them out. So they're trying to excite those people. The same is true in. Pennsylvania where forty percent of the vote was non college whites Michigan forty-two percent, and you know they're talking about Minnesota, which has a wider state than the other three but only thirty seven percent of non college whites voted in two thousand and sixteen I mean there is a method to their madness, which is they think there's a reserve of voters out there that they. Can Excite and polarize and activate and that is their key to winning the Electoral College. They know in the unless they're completely smoking something they don't know they know they're not GonNa win the popular vote they're gonNA lose it by more than they did last time but this is their theory be a I, think it ultimately, the math will not work. Out For them because you can't just excite one element of the electorate not the rest of the electorate suburbanites will be turned off by the vehemence with which trump is pushing what is race based strategy but but they do have a theory of the case and we should acknowledge it. Yeah. They absolutely do have a theory of the case but math. Unfortunately gets in the way which is You know forty percent or thirty, seven percent or forty, two percent. Whatever you said is not fifty one percent and I you know for every for every vote of a white non college voter that they may excite or bring to the table they may be losing in a one and a half votes on the other side of. Voter from suburban Philadelphia or suburban Detroit who took a chance on trump last time and and like you said, feels like he's gone too far off the deep end or for that matter of voter of color who didn't vote last time because they weren't excited about. Hillary Clinton or were depressed by the Russians or whatever it might be who now has decided that this enough is enough. After seeing for you and Young Peo- and young people. Yeah. You name it. So so it is not a zero sum game, but there is no doubt in my mind that that is their strategy increased white non college voter shows share as high as it can possibly get I just. I think that as long as Joe Biden continues down this path and as long as Donald. Trump. Continues to fail it's going to be very hard to keep any trump voter from thousand sixteen who sort of took a chance on him in the trump fold and run as long as iovine acceptable alternative They may be adding one here but losing more on the other side the problem with that strategy because it's been tried a million times and basically it it comes to. It is the strategy guys totally right. But you come up with that strategy because you don't have anything else while we're going to lose this election. Oh, we better get a new election. We gotTA bring a lot of people in we need a ton of rigors 'cause a under the current rules were. It's like we're losing the baseball game. We gotta add three innings here while you. Can do it in theory. But as you know in a presidential year, turning non-voters into voters looks great on the powerpoint chart but is really really hard to do. But Mike they have some experience right they. They actually were rewarded for this in two thousand and sixteen. Well. Yeah. But you know they had the trump movement they attracted him I don't think there's a whole bunch of. Voters who somehow missed the trump movement for the last four years in our deciding to get on I mean look they have to try it because they've got nothing else is just really really hard to do I mean you can see it in the convention all the Minnesotans they kept parading up are desperate, and that's the state they only lost about forty four thousand Republicans always come. Closer to big dream state is one of the interesting states is still full of White Democrats and it's just hard to do but I get it. That's their strategy. I just think it's a choice of last resort rather than strategically strong choice, and finally a diesel is right. The demography is killed them. If you look at WHO's died and who's become a voter in the last four years. Trump has lost more voters than he's gained because his vote skewed old white, and the lot of them have gone to the the Magon the sky in. So it's just the headwinds are tremendous I try to if I were them. Insert your people voting in Chicago Joe. I was as anything other than Gina Raimondo. That's the most oft mentioned line of yours in all of our last. Known. Cook. County. where I predict that Biden narrowly up victory due to the the hard work of the desk Florida. Man I wanNA talk about. Florida. I mean I really see it. It's very hard for trump to put this together without it. Oh, we can't, and so it's you you are. You are the Republican voters against trump strategist and Florida Tell me you just tell me that you you had some You know you saw some resistance. To your messaging in in some suburban groups, wh how do you? Size up Florida right now, I you know I So our vet Dot Org, we encourage people to join up. We've been doing what we call the permission campaign of phrase familiar to you. David. From some of the work you've done in the Great Lakes stakes for awhile with real Republicans who make these kind of Web ads and we pushed the best ones out on digital and we've had some success. Our goal is to chip trump from the normal ninety three to ninety, six percent of the Republican vote get him down to the mid eighties, which will be a material difference in Michigan, Wisconsin etc Pennsylvania. So we've started this new offensive in Florida I worked a lot and I have never bought that trump has a lock on Florida. The State is changing if you look at the public polling. You go to the polling averages from realclearpolitics sort of places you know Biden's Ben Ahead about though I'd say nine of the last eleven months there, and when trump's ahead, it's only two points it's a swing state it goes narrowly thirteen million of thirteen, almost fourteen million registered voters in about ten million last time in the margin was still under one hundred, twenty, thousand votes, the last election. So it is doable and one place you have to operate is where the Republicans historically been better than the Democrats, the of one six governor races in a row there, and that that fulcrum vote is more moderate either retired or suburban Republicans some whom relocated from the Midwest and other higher. Tax Areas. Often, and the spine of West West Coast of Florida all the way down to Collier county from the Tampa Bay area and then areas you know in the space coast tends to be a little more conservative Jacksonville these pockets. So you WanNa work there and you wanted to also get white college educated independence who act a lot like Republicans when they vote on wallet issues but don't quite can't quite take it to say the Republicans. So you know we're doing something we cooperation orange crush and we are focused on those. Voters only about four, hundred, thousand of them because we think they're the fulcrum and You know what they like about trump is I think trump is better for their wallet and they don't know much about Biden other than decency right now what they don't like about trump is the phrase you here's I'm tired of being embarrassed, which is in some of our advertising that a great kid Berry Ruben did with Real Republicans, spot this testing well so it's kind of a Jewish kid into Florida was. Doing Pretty Good Wisconsin to. but but anyway. So that's the jump ball and that is one thing that has sharpened my interest because I think that this is one thing I didn't like about the Democratic convention I know everybody in the world liked it. But the woman talking about trump essentially killing her father because he believed in trump why believe every word of that to be true and because I've psychotically hate trump and have since I doubt them in new, Jersey in the early nineties, for governor, Whitman out there in that world. Of kind of soft Republicans and independents they do not blame trump for Kobe they think it would have been trouble under any president and so that that silver bullet at least in that world doesn't have quite the power and they even get little upset because they think it's unfair to say so you gotta get their pocketbook that's who they are and chaos chaos and safety defend yourself a zoo. Now I think I will I will defend I I went to high school to college together I we found are actually but She's she's a friend of Mine I. Hear You I. Think this is what Kristen said at the convention and what I think is the truth is that Donald Trump didn't try to solve the problem once it started she told her she told Kristen's father. It was okay to go back and Sing Karaoke, and it was okay to go out without a mask and everything was going to be fine and this thing was going to be taken care of it's under at center and that is mismanagement and it goes back to what I was saying. He has mismanaged the response to the crisis. It's not the be created it. It's that we are still sitting at home six months later no better because our president and our federal leadership has failed and that comes from the top of the line was tough though the line was very the line. Mike's Mike's Point is the line but I. But anyway, can I just say about Florida talk about Florida Yeah Yeah let's go because you know there was a piece this morning in axios and we've been talking about this for some time. The danger this election is that Democrats are more sent are being told. To if. They WanNa vote by mail they should because that is that may be the sensible way to do it in Covid era and every poll suggests Democrats over over Republicans. Are Much, more likely to vote by mail the result of it is going to be a lot republicans, GonNa. Vote at the polling place and trump's numbers on election day are going to look. much better than they will at the end and so when the mail ballots get counted in the days subsequent to the election, his lead will vanish he will claim fraud. The the the potential for chaos. Is and the and the thing that could save us his Florida. Because Florida. Florida counts their ballots on election day. Yeah and yes Laura comes in in or around election day and it is in Biden's column. It will be clear what the verdict is going to be I think. Yeah, I mean if you look at the math. Hillary Clinton, Two Thousand Sixteen States plus Florida plus Pennsylvania. Gets you well, above two hundred seventy electoral votes. It's two states you know we talk and it's not to discount the other swing states that are out there Zona, Michigan Wisconsin, and potentially Minnesota. ETC But Florida and Pennsylvania and I remember back in two thousand sixteen when I was sitting, there were sort of wanting to one a one B in the states that we cared about back then because there's so many electoral votes forty nine between the two I agree with you one, hundred percent. There's one thing that keeps me up at night. It's the exact scenario that you just talked about which I'm I'm familiar with out here in California Iran. Governor newsome's campaign here I believe we ended on election night with about fifty seven percent of the vote in two thousand eighteen, and by the time all the ballots counted we were above sixty. So that's how that's California obviously is a state that does have vote by mail and I think we'll see a more California like situation and other states, and we've seen more than a few congressional races. There were words out of candidates were trailing in. Yeah vote by mail runs California. Yeah and so the eye. So that's normal here were used to it. Right. But another states where this might be the first situation where something like that happens I think trump is a hundred percent going to try to drive a truck through what ultimately is nothing at all and if we see that kind of movement, it's GonNa, it's GonNa be scary but I want everybody who's listening to this understand totally normal for for for racist to move to three points after election to hand out late late arriving. Balance. That is par for the course for elections for decades in states that have heavy vote by. So just acco little the good news about Florida's one no Republicans one in one hundred years without it as a decent just said you in Florida, you only need one more. You know US need to go grab Arizona there are millions scenarios with the others you gotta put three dimensional jets together which. They do but Florida plus one wins second Florida's good absentee they're used to it. They're used to heavy absentee ballot and they they count very quickly because they count the absentees come in the other thing is that traditionally the exit polling for all the problems have said two components the one everybody talks about which is have people with you know boxes you on your way into the polls. They also do a late phone poll of absentee ballot voters and I think the networks ought to report that data very transparently on election day as. Dual count say here's our estimated absentee vote and here's our election day vote to blur this a little bit and not cover up the absentee ballot because those polls aren't perfect but they can give you a fairly scientific estimate. The balance out the election day reporting network world has to figure out how to cover an election day that now may be a week long and they're going to have to be some new techniques because otherwise these Bloomberg guys who did the data I think they are right that in many states you could get very. Only sixty percent of the vote counted and reported, which is very different than what the reality can be. So we got to rethink the whole deal or trump's gonNA have something. You can make a lot of trouble with well as this podcast can't be a week long I, think it's time for the mail bag. Let's do it. Experts Segue by the way. That's why you guys are the Hacker Reuss. And I've just a special guest. You're you're you're you fit right in okay. It's the magic mailbag here. Thank you hacker ruse for sending in your questions. If you have one, send it to us at hacks on tap a g mail DOT COM, and don't forget to rate us on apple podcasts. You really helped the podcast when you do that and send. US. Your comments. Okay. A diesel for you from Doug just like team trump set the bar low for Biden speech by calling him sleepy and implying he's senile doesn't the expectation gap hurt Kamla in the opposite direction liberal stinker prosecutor Chops Will Destroy Mike Pence but as the bar set too high and skillful, Judiciary Committee questioning translate into a good vp. Debate. Good question. I think it's a great question and a really good point and I think you know that is amongst the political media and political observers. Right. But the folks who are actually watching the debate don't know cobble hair certainly don't have as as deepen understanding of WHO Kamla Harris is. As as the you know the folks are going to be shaping opinion afterwards. So I don't think that's a that's an incorrect concern. I. Do think we need to be careful with setting expectations for a total obliteration of Mike Pence who is vice president of the United States was the governor was a congressman and is a pretty good debate. He is a good debate we saw that against Tim Kaine. Way Underestimated and I think Camara's way overestimated. So this is a good question. I think it's a good question and it's something that Democrats should be careful of this is you know we may relish what actually does happen, but we don't want set the bar. Yeah. You want to buy low and sell high essentially when it comes to the expectations game Murphy Jennifer says. I always hear that trump campaigners go after non college educated. White. Voters we just had that discussion wise having graduated college considered such a big deal for pollsters what when pollsters analyze the electric that liked to break it up in the groups to kind of showed the different pieces of the electorate that campaigns can go after in different ways and traditionally trump has done. Really really well, with white voters who were non college educated that's been really his core area the voters who in other elections Lean Republican who've not been as good for trump tend to be white voters who have a college education. So there's kind of a big circle around that subgroup, the electorate as a place that has the most opportunity for Democrats went appeal voters who Don't like trump style or his policies often him. So because that seems to be some soft tissue here, a vulnerability for trump or an opportunity for biden that group gets a lot of attention in the polling and just so happens that there are other what we call cuts, differences, sacks, men, women, you can add to cuts together, college educated, White, and female, and then you. Get a real group where trump underperforms. It's just a way of zeroing in on electorates and seemed to be behaving in a in a way that's an opportunity for one side or the other. Well, and let's let just to put a finer point on this I mean D- trump is a white cultural warrior and he any thrives on the politics of resentment and loss and. and so there are there are among non college voters, white voters in this country, a sense of be besiegement and a sense of loss and a sense of place a loss of place that trump just he picks at that scab again and again and again, and that is the status, the core power of his politics So you know if you look. At the behavior of voters I mean trump lost He lost college educated whites. He lost a voters of color and he rolled up his score among the Non College Whites Evangelical voters who he got eighty percent of the vote among and that is his constituency. So it's the voters who sort of lead pollsters to their conclusion here. No, absolutely it's. Trump's secret sauce and resentment is the glue now acts for you from Jeff Oh. A journalism question warning to viewers all right The New York Times in Washington Post to a great job fact, checking all the president's lies unquote. But what about papers around the country while the demise of the daily press allow politicians to lie with impunity now what's the solution? Very good question. It is a good question and it's one that's near to my heart and my concerns as a former a reporter for the Chicago Tribune and someone who believes deeply in journalism and the importance of local journalism limoges say parenthetically before I answer that question that you know the times the post CNN and others do a great job. Of fact, checking trump. The disturbing thing is just how numb we've become to it that they're the he doesn't appear to pay a penalty for a telling untruths the alternative facts approach that he has You know as largely has largely worked for him that that's not to say that he shouldn't be called on it he should, but we also demand more. From our public officials and there is real danger when public officials don't tell truth look at this cove at. crisis that has been made worse because the president hasn't leveled with the American people about the severity of the situation. In terms of local journalism, we've seen thousands of local news house across the country fail and we have news desert's across this country. In which there is no on shining a bright light in the dark corners of local governments of county governments of state governments and That is of real concern that is a real threat to our democracy. What we've seen are You know we've seen ideologically oriented You know corporations buying up at bargain basement, price bargain-basement prices. Local news stations and Sinclair being the lead one to try and proselytize rather than report. In many cases this is a danger and in terms of what the answer is, we need know both altruistic people who want to support their local communities and want good journalism to step up and by news organizations not for profit journalism has become more and more. Powerful across the country but we need to and and obviously at the end of the day, a a subscription model that works for local organ news organizations. The way it does for the post and the Times would be would be very, very helpful but it's a slog. It's hard. It's a threat to our democracy and I'm glad you raised it. Yes. Can I just add? A real quick on that I I want to underscore I. think the federal officials will be we can hold them to account because of national news organizations because of whether it be cable news or newspapers like the Tribune or the New York Times or what have you it is the to me the local the state that's where the danger is real, which is there are folks who are. Controlling big budgets making huge decisions over everything from policing to hospitals in our in our neighborhoods in our cities that now have nobody watching watching over them except for you know vigilance citizens and so I would just encourage folks to subscribe to your local newspapers as you were saying David and and also if you want to be a citizen journalist yourself and do so in in A. Not. Alternative. Facts Way it's not nothing to engage. It's GONNA require citizens to engage in their politics at the local level even more than than at the federal level because we're all that stands between between you know a government that's working for us in the government is working in the dark corners like you said, this is something I can totally agree with the problem particularly God. Is You know look I hate the damn liberal press as much as any good conservative but but the problem is without the threat of bad publicity. There's no deterrent and local and state government to real trouble. It's set up for real trouble and the other problem is people say, Oh, we have the social media the Internet. Yeah we have all that and it can have a role, but it's not curated. So there's a lot of crap on it and what what good journalism does is curate this stuff. So you as a citizen can do you're damn job and find the truth and act on it. So this is a growing crisis and I I couldn't agree more and that was a great question. To people who WANNA go out and protest in a peaceful way that is part of the American way. But to those who who have other ideas, you're not helping anything here. You really not helping anything here and I hope you'll reconsider that's my last call. I'll add a quick Republican version of that protesting is great. Is What Liberty is all about but throw a brick. I'm okay. If you're going to jail and can I make a quick pitch today Tuesday the first is national poll worker Recruitment Day Oh yeah and I the one of the organizations I work with more than a vote is starting to launch an effort to recruit young people young people have colored to work the polls. We cannot let our grandmothers and grandfathers and aunties and uncles be the ones who are working the polls this year. So if you are a young person in particular I'd like to consider myself one still But if you are in your twenties thirties. And you have the ability to work the polls in your in your neighborhood and make sure that we have a smoothly running election in nonpartisan way. I just encourage everybody out there to please go do that power the polls dot org is the organization that we're partnering with Recruit Point you in the right direction and make sure that your election run smoothly and not just to your civic duty. But in some places actually get paid for it great note and by the way you're you're much older than you were when this podcast began. Murphy good to see brother. I'll see you next week. All right guys. Thank you. Get to see a DC. We hope you'll come back off and see if. BUBBA. Blow.

Donald Trump Joe Biden Trump president trump White House Kenosha Mike Murphy America Democratic Party David Axelrod Wisconsin Mike One Pulitzer Prize Chicago Florida Oregon Laura Ingram Jack Benny rand Paul
Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: NPR Illinois' Statewide (July 13, 2019)

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

1:04:08 hr | 1 year ago

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: NPR Illinois' Statewide (July 13, 2019)

"Get to old navy now because this week only there's a new red hot deal every single day plus up to fifty percent off store-wide. That's up to fifty percent off your favorite old. Navy styles also get ten dollars off your next purchase. When you buy online pick up in store store so hurry in and get today's wow worthy fashion pieces at a price? You won't believe only old navy balanced seven twelve to nineteen select styles only ten dollars off valid in store only one time use excludes clearance Gift Cards Register Lane Items Jewelry get ready for back to school with old navy two days only Saturday and Sunday. Kids Polos are on sale for just three bucks. That's right colorful kids. Paulos are three bucks for just two days Saturday and Sunday only at old navy and old Navy Dot Com valid seven thirteen seven fourteen limit five this statewide reports conversations from in and around Illinois. I'm Shawn Crawford this hour. We'll hear how the scheduling of a state fair grandstand tags and its subsequent cancellation has become a full blown controversy. The state's it's prison population has been dropping. What is behind the decline? Also the State of Illinois has set aside money to renovate the state armory building in springfield will remember the buildings passed and you're what might be ahead for that structure a basketball tournament. It has a unique spin pairing kids of different races on the same team. What I'd like is if we can get everybody to be a friend with somebody else different race is that achievable? I duNNo. We're GONNA find out and it's been forty years years. Since Disco Demolition night at Comiskey Park in Chicago will look back at that historic and infamous baseball promotion that in more this hour on statewide why have thousands of aspiring authors teamed up with Christian Faith Publishing to publish their book because Christian Faith Publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your Labor is more than just a book we provide authors freedom and flexibility throughout the Publishing Process Professional Book Academy Award Winning Design and some of the highest royalty structures in the publishing industry and is always you'll retain one hundred percent of the rights to your book looking to find a company that I could trust one that assisted in the editing process completely the most important qualities that I was looking for was a publisher who was honest and upfront no hidden costs or fees and owning the rights to my own work Christian faith publishing will publish market and sell your books in all major bookstores online booksellers as well as specialty Christian bookstores call for your free author Submission Kit Eight eight hundred six. Oh seven Oh six six five eight hundred six. Oh seven Oh six six five eight hundred six. Oh seven Oh six six five. That's eight hundred six. Oh seven Oh six sixty five get to old navy now because this week only there's a new red hot deal every single day plus up to fifty percent off store-wide. That's up to fifty percent off your favorite old. Navy styles also get ten dollars off your next purchase. When you buy online pick up in store so hurry in and get today's wow were the fashion pieces at a price? You won't believe only old navy valid seven twelve to nineteen select styles only ten dollars off valid in-store only one time use excludes clearance Gift Cards Register Lane Items Jewelry dish. T._V. is better than cable TV. Why because you can save forty five percent on packages compared to your high price cable bill while take those giant scissors out and cut the cable and Save Save With Dish TV plus you get a Free D._v._R.? Upgrade to record your favorite shows and free installation and with dish anywhere you can watch T._v.. For Free on your Mobile Device Act fast. You can save hundreds of dollars. Does your cable company do that for are you. I don't think so get all the best TV programming your fingertips at a fraction of the price of cable TV so CEOS how dare she goodbye to the High Cable Bill and save up to forty five percent on dish TV packages. Today these are limited time offers an change at any time call fast eight hundred four zero five two five six one eight hundred four zero five two five six one eight hundred four zero five two five six one. That's eight hundred four zero. Oh five twenty five sixty one welcome to statewide. I'm Shawn Crawford coming up this hour. A controversy has developed over who's playing and WHO's not Steve you're grandstands and Bitcoin and Springfield later this summer we'll find out more interesting approach to getting black and white kids to be teammates will discuss special basketball tournament that forces the issue and when it comes to sports there are a lot out of promotions. This week marks the fortieth anniversary of one that works so well it gone out of control that more on this week statewide first up this week for decades. The number of men and women in Illinois prisons appeared destined for permanent growth but several years ago the population actually began getting smaller and today it's more than twenty percent below. The High Watermark in our Illinois Issues in-depth report support for this week. Brian mackey looks at what's behind the trend. A more direct way of saying behind the trend is who gets to take credit. We'll come back to this question in a couple of minutes but first it's important to understand the context in which Illinois began locking up more and more of its citizens the numbers began inching up in the nineteen seventies in the years that followed Republican Governors and democratic legislators teamed up to lengthen prison sentences. The population doubled in the eighties and doubled again again in the nineties. The number peaked on February ninth twenty thirteen when forty nine thousand four hundred one people were locked up projections headed going even higher but that's not the way things worked out the numbers began to drop gradually adulation. I then more quickly until late last year when the population dip below forty thousand for the first time since the late nineties the question is why. I think it's important to recognize that there the idea that there's a single state policy policy that guides prison utilization isn't really accurate Mrs David Olson. He's a professor of criminology at Loyola University Chicago Olsen says there's no one policy because of how decentralized the Criminal Justice System Adam is here eight hundred police departments one hundred two separately elected state's attorneys hundreds of judges so when the police chief in Dixon sets up a program where the drug addicts can turn themselves in for treatment instead of jail that makes a little difference for larger scale change. You have to go to the places that send the most people to prison and that means Chicago and Cook County Olsen says the city has seen a huge drop in felony drug arrests over the last decade and fact a significant part of the statewide eight white prison declined can be traced back to just three Chicago police districts and that's really been concentrated in specific neighborhoods just like the tripling and quadrupling of arrests in Chicago cargo in the late eighties tended to be concentrated in very specific neighborhoods. Another significant drop is connected to retail theft in two thousand sixteen nearly a thousand people were in prison for the crime by the end of last year that number over was cut in half in between Cook County got a new prosecutor the number one charge in two thousand sixteen that we were prosecuting was not gun was not shootings. It was retail theft. This is state's attorney Kim A._M.. Fox from an interview she gave last year with Chicago Public Radio Station W._B._Z.. It's pretty easy for an Illinois into get retail theft up to a felony prosecution. All they have to do is steal more than three hundred dollars worth of stuff. That's a significantly lower threshold than a lot of states. Even though the law had not changed Fox directed her lawyers to act as though it had from then on retail theft would only be charged as a felony if more than a thousand dollars worth of stuff was stolen some of the people that we were seeing repeatedly were not people in sophisticated retail theft offerings we saw people who were stealing <hes> because they were either homeless had addiction issues had mental health issues poverty related issues and not threat. This reminds me of something. A criminal justice reform once told me he said prison should be for the people you're afraid of not the people you're mad at returning to Olsen the lil a criminologist. That's the effect of what's happening happening. He says the population that remains in Illinois prisons consists of people convicted of more violent crimes. They're also older even so the twenty percent drop in the prison population is remarkable which brings us back to the question we started with who gets credit for the turnaround. Everybody can have a little piece of the Action Olsen already talked about police and prosecutors. He says the legislatures contributed and the Department of Corrections is trying to improve how it treats inmates which leads to better that her outcomes and then there's you the electorate now is more willing to allow for prison and not be the primary response behind crime so everybody take a little bit of credit <hes> but if something goes bad everybody'll say it's not my fault some things. It seems never change. I'm Brian mackey. You can read more Brian Story Lincoln's at our website statewide show dot COM <music> economist is predicting Illinois's new nineteen cents per gallon gas tax increase will cause many of us to drive less. Even if we haven't changed our habits yet eric stock reports the long-term sensitivity is much greater and and we cut back a lot more in the long run than in the short run Mike Seaborg economics professor at Illinois Wesleyan University says once motorist feel the effects of paying more at the pump that likely start to make changes to reduce their need for fuel people ah who are deliberating on whether to keep that second car or facing the different additional expenses they get rid of the second car or maybe shorten your trips a little bit to save on expenses. The gas tax hike was a key component. Tired of Illinois it's forty five billion dollar. Capital Plan Seaborg says many companies that have to budget for higher transportation costs will pass that cost onto their customers. I'm Eric Stock The AUCOIN State Fair Mr over a month away but people are talking about in that conversation centers around a band that was booked to play the grandstand but now won't be appearing the group confederate railroad was signed to perform then the pritzker administration pull the plug on that show Gabriel neely straight as a reporter with the Southern Illinois newspaper newspaper and he's been reporting on the decision and the fallout and he joins us now Gabriel. What was the reasoning that was given behind the administration's move to call off this show well for a long time? There wasn't much of a reason given a one line fine. <hes> statement basically said that the state fell up that cancelling the show would be in the best interest of you know representing all citizens of the state. It wasn't until you know this kind of thing is blown up that we got a more detailed detailed explanation of who cancelled the show and why the state believes that it's not appropriate to have a band called confederate railroad and that uses symbols like the confederate flag on t shirts and merchandise not appropriate to have a band like that at a state venue and that decision is certainly left up to the fair or the administration to decide but what was interesting I think about this was that the band was already signed to play even announced to the public and then the change took place. Oh very public reversal here that's happened but by the PRITZKER administration apparently someone higher up weighing in on that decision right well you know it was originally done very quietly. You know we noticed that the band had been removed from the lineup and I think the first people to ask doc the administration about it and even prompt that <hes> initial brief explanation was the do coin weekly newspaper so it is also kind of a nice indication of the way that the important still of of very hyper small town you know news in creating a larger statewide conversation. This is a band that has been around for a while. It didn't just come on the scene a couple of years ago. They've been playing for many years. I believe they may have played the fair before yeah you know they they do a whole circuit of fares you know <hes> and that's I mean that's a lot of their summertime concerts <hes> and you know I. I don't think they're the first band to play. I mean other other folks who are playing currently or have played have reached reached out expressing their support for the band. The band itself is <hes> made some comments <hes> about you know to them the name representing their southern heritage and <hes> rebelliousness <hes> so yeah they don't appear to be directly directly advocating for any kind of <hes> like like slavery or any other sort of of the dark legacy of the civil war and and the way we associate what we associate with the word confederate you can look at it from a administration viewpoint of feeling as though this is something not appropriate they feel to be displayed at the fair. It'll be promoted by the fair at the other end of that spectrum. You have people who are saying now. Wait a minute. <hes> this is a freedom of speech issue or you know some type type of censorship. That's taking place bright. There's I mean there's a couple. I think issues going on here. One one issue is freedom of speech and the other issue is just representation. You know I think people in Southern Illinois <hes> some are frustrated with the idea that folks in Springfield or Chicago might decide what kind of entertainment they get to enjoy and their feeling is like well. It's obvious a lot of people in southern Illinois wanted to go see confederate railroad and <hes> it's not really affair that in this case we learned later basically a few senior officials from the PRITZKER administration. <hes> were responsible for the cancellation. You know people feel that it's not really fair but then like you said also there's this larger debate going on about about <hes> freedom of expression whether whether there's something materially different about you know the confederate flag being represented on a state fairground versus an artist Snoop Dogg the rapper whose going to perform at the Springfield state fair and who has you know lyrics that some people might find offensive that include you know <hes> denigrating women and you know talking about glorifying violence including against police officers <hes> there's a lot of people down here who feel that you know that's just as objectionable actionable as the confederate flags and a local state representative from your area has has raised that scene point representative Terry Bryant's of Republican as she met with the administration. What did she say took place I? I don't think she got what she wanted out the meeting you know her goal was to <hes> get them to reinstate confederate railroad and <hes> the folks she met with told her that's not happening. She felt like <hes> she tried to show them why she believes that Snoop Dogg and confederate railroad or essentially intially equivalent <hes> in terms of how objectionable they are and then <hes> the those those the pritzker administration expressed its own view which is that you know the the confederate flag is a very powerful symbol <hes> and then it continues to be used <hes> in you know by white supremacists and that it you know it it's just not it's not something that people might feel safe or comfortable around and it's never going to be appropriate. Terry's position is that you should either you know cancel both shows which would then of course have a larger first amendment implication of wall. Should we cancel every show where artists says something that people might find objectionable <hes> or you should cancel neither one her overall stance she thinks is that you know both should be allowed to play. She said I would never fly confederate flag and I consider it to be a symbol of slavery but I would not stop my neighbor from flying a flag in front of their house if they so chose well this might have gone as you mentioned. <hes> somewhat unnoticed certainly local media might have picked up on what I think seems to have gotten more. People's attention has been an effort. That's underway to try to at least call for a boycott of the new coin State Fair. <hes> believe there's a facebook page for that that seems to be gaining some some momentum minimum. How serious does that seem to be? It's growing really fast. The facebook page was created on July fourth <hes> six days later. It's got over four thousand members <hes> part part of that I mean and and I spoke with the the guy who started the facebook. Page was a local guy and he he said he he has no way of knowing really how many of those people are local people and there is a question about that given the fact that the story has been picked up pretty <hes> heavily we buy like national conservative outlets so like <hes> Fox News commentators like toddstarnes and Glenn Beck headed on his please TV network. It's possible that people are piling into this facebook group from outside the region but you know I've spent a good amount of time on it. <hes> for my reporting and I think that there are a lot of people in it and a lot of people who are pretty interested in trying to make their opinion felt in Springfield through a boycott. The interesting thing is that there's a lot of different opinions about the way the most effective way to boycott the fair and also the potential danger of doing that given that the fares lost attendance year-over-year recently and is widely regarded down here to be in pretty dire financial straits. I mean to the point that people worry it might disappear someday which would be unfortunate because it's a pretty big economic driver for <hes> a small town in a region that need just before. I let you go the the night that confederate railroad was supposed to play the fair. Is there still a concert. That's it's going to be taking the stage that evening. Yeah <hes> to other country bands will still play that night at the grandstand and <hes> confederate railroad <hes> just announced <hes> that it will be performing <hes> a makeup show about a week later September kimber fifth at a motorcycle dealership down here in southern Illinois so it'll be interesting to see how well attended that is and how many people decide to boycott the state fair this year the do Coin State Fair runs August twenty third through September the second Labour Day eh thanks to Gabriel neely straight. He's reporter with the Southern Illinois newspaper for joining us here on statewide. Thanks Gabriel thank you after we spoke with Gabriel. Governor Pritzker made some comments to reporters about the decision. We're talking about a band that has sense its emblem. The confederate flag the confederate flag is a symbol of not just slavery <hes> but of treason against the United States. It's also a symbol of murder of kidnapping of rape. That's what happened under the banner of the confederate flag many years ago in this country it is today a symbol of racists of white nationalists of the alt-right <hes> and so I do not think that the state of Illinois I should be sponsoring something that is amplifying that symbol so that is why we took the action that we did well remember. There's a big difference between what I just described where hundreds of thousands of people died millions in in fact tens of millions of people were enslaved. We're talking about a history of terrible history in the United States death and destruction that took place under that flag and on the other side political satire with snoop has a history of misogyny of he wants to put out a video that was essentially Angelique porn called Snoop doggy style. You're comfortable with someone who endorsed four no again. There is an enormous difference Tamang between you know the political satire the discussion by a single artist <hes> his political Ol- views and the representation of truly millions of people being enslaved hundreds of thousands of people being killed under the banner of treason. Remember it was under the banner of the confederate flag that the assassin of Abraham Lincoln our favorite son. The son of Illinois was murdered. That's governor pritzker speaking to reporters this week more to come on statewide ahead. We'll look back forty years ago to disco demolition tonight at the Ballpark. Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment our new investment product offers competitive returns no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money. Make the reliable investment in reliable energy the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com. That's reliability investment dot. Com Free Talk live in the light. There was a being starting to are you saying Michael Jackson has come back and said I am Michael Jackson. See I called there. You go you talk with God throughout your life. You heard this voice that you recognized as God telling you do you believe magic inviting you to look out the window where you then saw Michael Jackson coming down from a rainbow ray of light coming from the sky so what happened then did he invite you to his playland or whatever it is. He has nine months later. The Virgin Birth happen again he could resurrect <music> by the Meat Jackson's baby. I'm back listen to free. Talk Live seven nights weeks six to nine P._M.. Central time heartland newsfeed radio network and heartland news phone dot com. You're listening to statewide. I'm Shawn Crawford coming up bridging the racial divide through basketball that story is on the way and later we'll look back at the state armory building in springfield its history story and what might lie ahead this week back in nineteen seventy nine baseball promotion got out of hand and that might be putting it mildly sadly known as disco demolition at prompted fans to bring disco records to the White Sox Ballpark to watch them blown up at wound up in what some called a riot and it has gone down as one of the most infamous moments in baseball history the white sox owner Bill Oh that was known for his wild promotions but this idea belonged to his son Mike a White sox executive at the time since then Mike Vick has built a long resume in baseball but he'll always be connected to the disco fiasco. I talked with him back. In Twenty Tony Thirteen and today we revisit that interview in nineteen seventy seven the white sox <hes> <hes> with whom I labored at the time had a promotion with disco clubs all around Chicago and at the end of the evening Jeff Schwartz who was a record bugger Auger at that time for united artists and a group of US retired Miller's pub which <hes> I'm happy to say still stands in downtown Chicago and we discussed what we thought was a blade on American music scene disco. Oh and we thought it would be really fun to have a night honoring rock and roll music for all the people who didn't care for disco and loved rock and roll. We went home laughing at four in the morning and never thought about it again until Steve Dahl on WWL U._p.. Blew up a disco record and <hes> about five minutes. After Mr Daul got off the air I called him and said You WanNa do that live at Comiskey Park and he said well I've only done it at shopping centers and I said well go practice because we're going to do it. <hes> between Games twenty double header against the against the Tigers and so- July twelve came and I told everyone we were going to have thirty five thousand people and they thought the funniest thing they ever heard and there were thirty thirty five thousand people lined up at three o'clock so we opened the gates <hes> at four o'clock it was twenty nine double header a long extinct. You'll never see one of those again except for two admissions and we opened the gates that we sixty thousand people in Comiskey by six o'clock and after losing the first game and the kids ran out on the field and as they say the rest is history Jane Byrne Road in <hes> the riot squad came in after an hour. We were forced to forfeit my dad looked at me and said every once in a while you have one that works too well. He was actually the only one who understood it. It did not do wonders for my baseball career from their <music> emotionally. You know those were some tough times for you following that event. That's putting it mildly. I just went right off the deep end ran right off the deep end anytime that <hes> you know your your <hes> earring on the street behind your back reportedly this would cost your your <hes> potentially hall of fame. <hes> father was a it was a disgrace and of course. I didn't know what a slow news day meant which meant that everybody everybody wrote about it. Had there been something else going on it would have been relegated. You know two maybe not so <hes> large amount of coverage but <hes> I hit the sauce pretty good after that and <hes> didn't work again in the big leagues for ten years the fact that you had to forfeit the second game of a doubleheader. That's especially in the seventy nine season. That wasn't such a big issue. I guess for the White Sox but there was some cost involved in that and I'm sure that created some issues for your father is well. Oh Oh yeah there's it's a marketing man's nightmare actually to to have a promotion that goes <hes> as I said almost too well too many people show up and you end up forfeiting what was then only the fourth game in the history of <hes> of <hes> Major League Baseball and there there comes a a real onus with that <hes> but I refused them John to apologize in terms of this being a terrible <hes> terrible tragedy you know I know what tragedies are <hes>. We all know what tragedies are. We see them every day. Those are those are our veterans who don't have enough to eat or or children who can't walk those are those are tragedies. Forfeiture of a of a ball game doesn't rape very high up there. That was all I said and of course the press just just killed me for that but now I'm happy to say that ever since the twenty fifth anniversary people kind of look back on this event now with kind of a warm and fuzzy approach is opposed to the first ten or fifteen years in which I was a pariah you've been in baseball probably about as long as your father was yet yet I I assume you're still recognize more likely as Bill Vic Sun is the second frustrating for you at times. Oh I you know you go through your period that had a lot to do with my drinking and and you know your maturity level I mean I'm a mistake genetics. You know if I had been Charlie Brown. <hes> not the famous one. I would have gotten another chance after disco and I would have had was not well liked in the front office so the name was not helpful to getting employment and <hes> but the fans loved it and I know which one I choose and it was easy <hes> being his kid because there was never any money he died broke but not broken and <hes> I think kids who have famous parents who we have a lot of money to worry about have a problem but I think when it's just infamy I you don't really have a problem and I've had a wonderful you know. Run has worked for four and a half major league teams. I've owned a dozen or so minor league teams. I've got ten years in the bigs twenty five years in the minor so I I have managed to to have a dream life with very mediocre towns. I've never thought your father gets his due for contributions nations to baseball. He was seemed to be all about having fun giving fans a good time making the game more about you know an enjoyable experience out there rather than people just sitting in the seats all the time and that's an approach. You've honed his well with your ownership. Talk a little about on your leadership style when it comes to baseball hire good people and stay out of their way listen to the fans make sure that any decision you make is is for the fans I and and I appreciate your your comments about my old. Oh man he he made a lot of contributions <hes> to the game and unfortunately you know because of Eddie Goodell midget in Saint Louis <hes> a lot of the facts that he won a world championship in Cleveland and forty eight with Lou boudreaux and and tennis on the south side of Chicago with the White Sox and fifty nine are lost because he was so unpopular with the owners and they would like to have him remember it as a man of gimmicks instead of as a renaissance man of substance he made the game the game I might add that he loved and it was the only way he made his living. He didn't inherit money he had no money. Except what are your into the box. Now you mentioned doing everything for the fans. You had one tonight though with one of your <hes> minor league teams or recently where you lock the fans out of the stadium you set a record for lowest attendance at a game. What would your dad have thought about that? I think he laughed. You know I've been a fool not to learn a little something and <hes> the juxtaposition of ideas and the idea that we spend all day everyday laboring to draw the most people we can. That's what we kill ourselves all the time so I just thought that the opposite would be kinda funny and whether or not any of the purest agree we do one hundred and twenty six interviews all over the world and H._B._O.. Coming to came into the twelve minutes special on itself I stand by nobody nice silly but effective you're sort of in the entertainment business as well as the baseball business can some of what you preach also apply to other businesses and and <hes> you know people in other fields well I. I didn't really think about it. You know I could never work in the hockey business. I could never work working basketball business. <hes> just because baseball is so ingrained and that's what I love my my son. Nine train for example is fourth generation now working for the white sox. That's kind of our game but a few years ago I wrote a book so called fun is good and the people who responded to the book where businesses all over the country and I did some touring around and speaking for corporations and it never really occurred to me <hes> in bet you could apply it but the long winded answer is yes. It really does work. If you have a fun creative shop. No matter what you do you can make widgets or you can <hes> pedal baseball. That's Mike. Effect from an interview in two thousand thirteen he was the man behind the promotion known as Disco Demolition night at Comiskey Park forty years ago this week since the event the promotion has been remembered fondly by some who see it as a wild moment from their youth some others others though tie it to what they view as racist homophobic undercurrents among the predominantly white fans in attendance VAC and Steve Doll he was at the center of the controversy. Don't agree with that perception in a recent statement. Doll said we blew up disco records made fun the B._G.'s and Saturday night fever. It goes no deeper than that. The added sometimes a stupid radio promotion is just a stupid radio promotion the White Sox mark the fortieth anniversary of disco demolition night earlier this season they ended ended out special t shirts at a home game Steve Doll throughout the first pitch in Springfield will host an unusual basketball tournament later this month. It's designed to have a positive effect on the players long after the games are over dusty Rhodes as more that about ten years ago. Al Clinic was scrolling through youtube looking for videos about his hometown when he stumbled upon documentary that shocked him. I came across the race riots in Springfield. What did it do to you when you found out that Springfield field had this horrible history because we call it a race riot but really was more of a massacre? Yes and I can't believe that I grew up in north. Inborn raised lived here all my life and didn't know the true history history. The massacre sparked by white woman's false claim that she had been raped by a black man do you black men were lynched. More than a dozen people died and scores of black owned homes and businesses were burned to the ground by white mob over a period of two days in the year nineteen ninety eight at the time it made national news and inspired the establishment of the N. Double A._C._p.. But in Springfield the episode was kept quiet for decades by the time clinic found out about the riot full century later he realized that if something so so horrible could have remained hidden there were probably other things happening in Springfield that he knew nothing about so clinic began searching for a way to bring people together the only way he knows how I'm a basketball person. It's been basketball all my life I as a player and then I wanted to play college ball. Nobody wanted me so I became a coach. His coaching gigs have included Lanphier High School Sacred Heart Griffin and Rochester high but that's not all twenty years ago clinic clinic and his younger brother Steve Opened Basketball Facility. That's home to various recreational leagues and the Springfield Predators traveled teams. The facility itself has called the gym. That's capital t capital g the gym. It does get confusing <hes> when people ask where we plane we tell them at the gym. Periodically they'll go to another gym instead of the gym but they only make that mistake once so how does basketball intersect with racism system well clinic says it actually happens a lot traveling to tournaments all over the Midwest you see a lot of teams where all the players are the same color even at St Ball tournaments like the Gus smacker. I've gone to three on three tournaments for a long time when my son played in I can remember going to a peoria that used to be one of the biggest tournaments round for the smacker and most of the teams were either black or white. Clinic has witnessed this phenomenon so many times is he now wants to try putting his own twist on it. How do you get people to get on a team with a person of a different race and want to play that way well? Here's a way to do it with our two onto tournament that that you have to get a teammate of a different race. He's calling it that community unity to onto tournament the very sure he's handing out 'cause it the most unique basketball tournament you'll ever play in its are little biddy way of saying a let's be teammates instead of against each other and have a good time doing it. Clinic started by recruiting Letitia with Anderson to co-chair the event like clinic Anderson grew up in Springfield but she comes from a politically active black family. She works as a lobbyist for small municipalities and served as Springfield mayor. Tim Davlantes Chief of staff during his first year in office. I've known about the nine hundred eight race rides and that's actually tells you a little bit about Springfield felt so I mean I like Alex said people may differ 'cause Allen. I different a great deal on a lot of things but we're still very good friends and I think that that's what this term it is about. I think it can change the way people perceive one another just from one little basketball game you've gone out and talked to different organizations in you've run into teams that are all white or teams that are all black and they're like sorry letitia. We don't know any other players right right that is correct. They've never gone outside of their comfort zone outside of their neighborhoods outside of their churches and so this brings them together it then makes leaders that are supposed to be leaders in our community. Bring these kids together to bring families together to me. I think what makes a difference in our community is when there's an open dialogue and people are working together for particular goal so you're can play travel ball. My kid play travel ball and the best part travel ball to me. Was the families became a team behind the kids. I was very trimming. We played with kids from little bitty towns that were all homogeneous the when you're in a hotel room and I'm sitting there braiding every a little kids hair. That's on the team but I thought okay. This is a way to bring us together and that's what it did so you're GONNA get two sets of parents cheering their team on together and those parents might not know each other and the we sitting together other side by side cheering on their children. I see a wonderful ripple effect. Actually that's pretty much how she became friends with clinic. He trained her daughter Alison Anderson. Who was the star point guard for Springfield high school? In two thousand Asinine Allison has agreed to team up with clinic for the Hotshot Competition at his community unity tournament. That's the side contest designed to attract players who might be too old to play the game. What I'd like is if we can get everybody to be a friend with somebody else of a different race that to me would be wonderful to have at the end of the day? Is that achievable I duNNo. We're GONNA find out you know. Is that too pollyannish. <hes> I don't know the tournament is scheduled for the last weekend in July and all proceeds will be divided between two charities compass for kids and Saint Martin Depor's clinic hopes this tournament will become an annual tradition. I'm dusty Rhodes leads looking for our podcast. Statewide is available through N._p._R.. One one sweet and you can also find links to all the stories you hear at our website at statewide show dot com just ahead here on statewide. A lot of history has taken place inside the walls Illinois state armory in springfield field. What does the future hold? Their story is coming up. Get to old navy now because this week only there's a new red hot deal every single day plus up to fifty percent off store-wide. That's up to fifty percent off your favorite old. Navy styles also get ten dollars off your next purchase. Just when you buy online pick up in store so hurry and get today's wow were the fashion pieces at a price. You won't believe only old navy valid seven twelve to nineteen select styles only ten dollars off valid in-store only one time use excludes clearance Gift Card Register Register Lane Items Jewelry. 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Armory building in springfield played a big role. In life in the city and Rockford it's one of those communities banking on a new casino. We'll take a closer look at what that could mean all ahead on state wide the area in the Gulf of Mexico known as the dead zone is projected to grow to the size of Massachusetts this year. That's according to a recent federal report. Christine Herman is more than what it means for fishermen in the Gulf and how farmers in the Mid West can help. It's called the dead zone because it kills marine in life which takes a toll on the fishing industry in the Gulf A._C.. Cooper is the president of the Louisiana Shrimp Association last season. We'd probably two thirds less than we did last year. At this time Ed goes to show you how much freshwater yearly affects the environment and the fish that live in the problem is caused in part by mid West Farming Dick Lions grows corn in Montgomery County Illinois. He says he's changed the wiki farms to prevent nitrogen and phosphorus and fertilizer from entering waterways. He says it's boosted his corn yields without raising costs it. It hurts me to think that I'm causing problems for someone else in the industry that I'm in is causing these problems but I think it's a moral obligation that we as stewards of the land do the best we possibly can Kuprin lions made their comments on the twenty-first show. I'm Christine Herman. The Illinois state RB building is perhaps the largest state owned building. You don't know about the two hundred thousand square foot behemoth was once a fixture of life and culture in downtown Springfield in a central component to the state Capitol Complex but the more than eighty year old building is a shell of what it once was since the state police abandoned it in two thousand eight at has fallen into disrepair. That's all about to change now that state lawmakers voted one hundred twenty million dollars from the latest infrastructure plan to fix up the place as plans for how to do that began to take shape one big question looms can the state armory be made new again and if so what might it look like our reporter Slam Dunk Log explores the legacy and what lies ahead for the Illinois state armory. I'm walking to meet up with a guy who's an expert on old buildings Anthony Rubino. I'm a product designer with the state of Preservation Office in the Illinois Department of Natural Resources. We've met in front of a five storey limestone in concrete structure that spans an entire city block in downtown Springfield across from the State Capitol Building Anthony Starts to tell me about it. Oh we're looking at the Illinois state armory that was built in the Mid Nineteen thirties and functioned as such for many years Illinois has had three of these kinds of building since the civil war they were designed to store weapons in quarter horses for the state militia the I was torn down and replaced by castle looking structure but that was destroyed in nineteen thirty four when it was set on fire by a ten year old kit kit builders commissioned by F._d._R.'s Work Progress Administration set to work constructing this building in its place and it's got the nineteen thirties written all over it art deco lighting fixtures vertical columns with wavy lines steel window panels as with Brahman looking shields in the middle of them all by design Rubino says it reinforced the power of the Republic and democratic ideals but then also this veneer of newness of modernism of streamlined design. The armory kind of looks like a giant Sandwich Sandwich. If viewed from above the bread in this case is the buildings two sets of offices that sit on either side and the meat is a giant auditorium. Wait what I asked. Rubin Awaiian Auditorium is smack DAB in the middle of a military Harry building turns out. That's where the National Guard used to train its soldiers well. The drill hall is a large open space and armories have normally a large open drill hall so you have this large central volume that really could be used for anything thing that required a large gathering of people so it functioned very well as an indoor like an amphitheater an amphitheater that in its heyday was a cultural hub for downtown Springfield and the state at large to find out a little bit more about what took place in their over the decades. I I met up with historian Curtis Man. I am the manager of the Sanguine Valley Collection. He spends all day researching Springfield area history which includes state buildings like the armory really was interesting is that it was supposed to be for the military components of the National Guard is a place for them but they also had two other purposes. One of those was to supply state offices at the time state government was expanding and needed more people to fill more roles more people equals more offices and the third purpose which it served for a long time was kind of like a civic center it was used for a variety of large gatherings basketball games conventions political rallies people like J._F._k.. F. K. Martin Luther King Junior spoken hall shows concerts. That's right a government building once hosted rock and roll concerts at the height of the anti-establishment movement the man who brought them here wasn't enterprising a young promoter named Len trumper who started his company. Whatever productions in nineteen seventy one? I just knew there was nothing going on in Springfield for kids do I went in and out of the army and <hes> phenomenal and stuff and mm-hmm came home and I still saw there was nothing for people news. I thought I'm going to try something over the years he convinced at least a hundred national acts to perform at places like the state armory. We're talking bands from A._C._D._C. Nine to blue oyster cult. Tom Sullivan was a regular at those shows he lives in California now but remembers the Springfield armory stage well usually candy only <hes> you could sit up in the bleachers if you want to but they basically cleared out the whole floor of the armory and people would just be sitting around standing or the only circles the group of friends have kind of a <hes> anything Kinda goes. Perhaps one of the most infamous of those anything goes shows involved in early Van Halen on July twenty seventh nineteen seventy-nine Van Halen arrived in Springfield for a stop on their world tour their self titled Debut Album had hit the charts and they were well on their way to becoming a rock and roll sensation and they we're about to cause a whole bunch of trouble. I came the car right between their downtown hotel and the armory when they got there. My driver told me he couldn't do anything about and he said I couldn't stop them. Like what are you talking about. Come out and look at the car and we got outside and they had taken the anything in that three block that they had to go anything that was small enough to tear off everything they threw out the window. As they went down the road. Once inside the armory they were greeted backstage by one of trumpers trusted stagehands Michelle Lechner in the dressing the room that I had very nicely set up with these tablecloths and these trays of food and all of this David Lee Roth got up walked across the whole table full of food. It's like thanks you know. Great guys are fun. Curtis man says what Van Halen did after the show was all over the local news satisfied with the service they got. I understand that they said a small fire there and were on their way out of town when the police stopped and made them come back you know the answer answer for their actions. The state would put an end to armory shows shortly after that around the same time a new downtown convention center was completed rendering the armory stage pretty much obsolete as for the building itself the the Illinois State police were the last state agency to move out in two thousand eight. The armory has since been used as a giant storage locker and has remained closed to the public which brings us to today about one hundred twenty million dollars has been approved for the state armory and other springfield projects in the new infrastructure plan. The building is controlled by the State Central Management Services Agency which says the money will go toward making the armory a usable space. Anthony Rubino says that will involve some work. There's a certain amount of baseline line cost that it may take to bring a building up to a certain standard in terms of roof repair and utility replacement HVAC and mechanical and plumbing but the goal is to renovate the place so the state and the public can use it again what that will look like is up up in the air right now but some already have ideas take Lisa Clements Start Executive Director of downtown Springfield Inc there are thoughts about how it could be an indoor farmers market. You could potentially have the Bank of Springfield Center being the overseers of any activities where repub the public could use it or the different things could be booked in there or springfield state representative Tim Butler the E._p._a.. Building on the north side of town of North Grand <hes> part of that building's going to be eliminated as part of the Tennessee rail project comes through there so there will be a need to house <hes> e._p._A.. Employees whatever ideas state planners end up going with there will be a review process approval and bidding before any shovels in the ground as you can imagine that might take some time but both state and local officials want to see the state armory returned to its former glory corey. Just don't expect a raucous rock concert in there anytime soon. I'm Sam Dunk Law. They WANNA see photos of the armory in its heyday and its current state will confine more information at her website speedway show dot com if you were trying to quit. Drinking <unk> are doing too many drugs listened to me. You don't know me and we'll never meet. I had a problem like you once I drank and used to party a little too much till it got out of control and almost ruined my life. I realized I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me if you've tried to fix your drinking and drug problem and you know you can't do it alone. You need to call the national treatment advisers. They'll immerse you into a thirty day program to replace Your Old Habits. Habits with new habits and totally change your life and if you have P._P._O.. Private health insurance the entire program may be covered fix your problem right now before it gets any worse get clean call now and learn more eight hundred nine five seven six two nine eight hundred nine five seven six two zero nine eight hundred nine five seven six two zero nine. That's eight hundred nine five seven sixty two. Oh nine stylized lounge presents. It's the progressive box. That's you go tickling the Ivories he just saved by bundling home and Auto Progressive GonNa finally for that Gal of Yours Hugo send my condolences Tayo this next. There's in my thinking Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates discounts not available in all states or situations. I'm going to tell you you can get real healthcare for as little as six dollars a day. Yes now you can get affordable health care for you and your family immediately and save as much as fifty percent of your current monthly healthcare payments are plans are perfect perfect. People that are self employed can afford health benefits where they were or just WanNa pay less for their current healthcare and coverage is guaranteed regardless of your medical condition we even offer some of the new Christian faith based health benefits save save up to fifty percent on your family's healthcare. Make a free quote call now. There are no contracts and we give you a ten day money back trial period call provision enrollment right now for your risk-free guaranteed health insurance quote starting starting at six dollars a day eight hundred four seven. Oh eight zero two one eight hundred four seven. Oh eight zero two one. That's eight hundred four seven. Oh Eighty twenty-one governor Jay pritzker assigned to measure at the end of June allowing for six casinos in Illinois and legalizing sports betting Rockford is the site of one of those casinos and cheese cavanaugh has more on how it will contribute to local and state revenue a comprehensive gambling bill has been repeated priority in the state legislature for several years. One of its biggest supporters has been republican state Senator Davis Iverson. He says a major concern is gambling dollars being lost surrounding states last year a little over over one point five billion dollars left Illinois to go to the five surrounding states who have all built casinos on the borders seaver some worked in tandem with Democratic Senator Steve Solomon who's district comprises much of Rockford one of Solomon's priorities was it was funding a state capital plan and some possible funding streams like attacks on streaming videos weren't well received by the public eventually most people came to realize that we could fund a majority of capital plan through gaming expansion and to me that was the key to surpassing larger package Solomon says initial estimates on casino revenue would add at least five hundred million dollars for the capital fund see Verson adds that the capital plan since the money to very specific sources that includes things for universities. K Twelve school woke projects state facilities state parks. It's really dealing with deferred maintenance. Municipalities like Rockford will also get a share of each casinos revenue stolman explains Seventy Percent City Rockford twenty percent for one day Oh county and if five percent for less Park Manchester Park so they'll divide up the amount that a local casino would bring both senators say it's better for the revenue to remain in state rather than go across the border severson is also concerned that cross-border casinos can open up more quickly because they aren't taxed as heavily as their Illinois counterparts. He's as the plan to Ho Chunk Casino in Beloit Wisconsin as an example rockville would clearly a at a big disadvantage because <hes> the Indian casino by not paying taxes makes a lot more money and mm can subsidize their water park. They're talking about or subsidiser hotels or they can pay larger larger winnings stottlemyre adds that the lost revenue isn't necessarily coming from the wallets of out of staters so we had beloit to the North <hes> you you have <hes> Indiana casinos to eastern. I think any given day you look in the parking lots of those casinos in Indiana again all Illinois license plates even with the State's legal blessing to expand casino gambling the revenue estimates aren't perfect also there are different tax regimes teams for different types of gambling. Stop them and says the video gaming machines commonly found in bars and restaurants are taxed at a flat rate of thirty percent. This doesn't apply to casinos but there's a progressive element to it so <hes> the more revenue brings in its tax at a higher rates furthermore the introduction of sports gambling brings in questions of what tax rate is ideal casinos are also devising different ways they can provide sports betting in a legal setting while still appealing to the convenience of certain ways. It's done szeged with mobile APPS governor. Jay Pritzker says regardless of method. There's money to be made the ongoing revenue not insubstantial from tax revenue from sports betting as it ramps up is I believe between twenty and forty million dollars a year. You're not a small amount of money but relative to some of the other things <hes> maybe smaller finally a portion of the tax revenue from Illinois casinos goes toward treatment for gambling addiction. Stop them and says that amount will be significantly higher than in the past the state will provide six point eight million dollars and treatment and services and therapy for gamblers who do have addictions. That's a seven hundred fifty percent increase or what's currently provided. I think the current eight hundred thousand dollars at this point Rockford kicked off an application process for parties interested in building and running the new casino the city can send multiple applications to the Illinois Gaming Board for approval but only one party will ultimately receive a state license once the Gaming Board makes its decision. The casino will set up a temporary recite while their main building is under construction so receivers in hopes that can be done by the end of the year. I'm Trish Gavel Hi. I'm Joan London when I needed to find senior care for my mom. I really struggled to find the right fit until I found an adviser. Here's someone who had been through this before. That's why I recommend A.. Place for mom the nation's largest senior living referral service they have experts who will help you ask the right questions and find the right place. Call A. Place for mom today who speak with a local senior living adviser call A. Place for mom at one eight hundred nine zero eight zero two six five. That's one eight hundred nine zero eight zero two six five A. Place for MOM has helped over two hundred thousand families find the right senior care for their your parents from assisted living to independent living even Alzheimer's care and have local advisers that can help explain your options at no cost to you speak with a local senior living adviser call A. Place for mom at one eight hundred nine zero eight zero zero to six five. That's one eight hundred nine zero eight zero two six five call today. That's it for statewide this week. Join US again next time for more reports and conversations for in and around Illinois and a reminder. If you missed any in this episode or others find them at statewide show dot com you can also get a podcast through N._p._R.. One I'm Shawn Crawford statewide as a production of N._p._R.. Illinois with help from other Illinois public radio stations uh-huh get to old navy now because this week only there's a new red hot deal every single day plus up to fifty percent off store-wide. That's up to fifty percents off your favorite old. Navy styles also get ten dollars off your next purchase. When you buy online pick up in store so hurry and get today's wow worthy fashion pieces at a price? You won't believe only old navy balanced seven twelve to nineteen select styles only ten dollars off valid in store only one time use excludes clearance Gift Cards Register Lane Items Jewelry get ready for back to school with old navy two days only Saturday and Sunday. Kids Polos are on sale for just three bucks. That's right colorful kids Paulos. 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Whether it's running or not they'll provide fast free twenty four hour pickup and you receive a charitable tax deduction plus the great feeling you'll get knowing your donated cars going to help save more lives just call eight hundred seven five seventy two twenty to set the wheels in motion they take cars trucks trucks vans and S._U._V.'s running or not call eight hundred seven five seventy two twenty the United Press Cancer Foundation needs your help and your donation could literally save women's lives helping them catch breast cancer early like they did with my mom donate today eight hundred seven five seventy two twenty eight hundred seven five seventy two twenty when it comes to invest in innovation trust the experts Robo global provides laser focused investment portfolios does the deliver access to robotics A._I.. 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MK208: Little Shop of Korners (Oliver & Company, Little Shop of Horrors, Great Things of 2019, Animation, Self Partnering & Emma Watson, England)

Minority Korner

1:14:56 hr | 11 months ago

MK208: Little Shop of Korners (Oliver & Company, Little Shop of Horrors, Great Things of 2019, Animation, Self Partnering & Emma Watson, England)

"Ah Welcome do soon minority corner where we take an introspective. Look at the world during Intersectional Lens. I'm James A queer. Political comedian self proclaimed unsexy blurred about marriage. And each week. I'm joined in the corner by another steig minority where we tackle pop culture. The news news media and history all the little self care and self love sprinkled throughout. We have a very special hilarious episode to help you. You laugh off that post Thanksgiving food if you're fortunate to partake or if you're out in the midst of black Friday. Don't worry we've got some funnies for you with the hilarious Emerald colleague from the UCB Improv team token. Oh my gosh is also from the world animation. She had me laughing and giggling. Sow how much through this week's episode. You're into such a tree and we talk about so many things some really beautiful tangents that are on key. non-point we have wonderful like under so excited to share that episode With you off we dig into those Disney plus archives. I'm ruins trying to everyone's GonNa try to jog my memory all over in company which I know I love that movie but I can't remember speaking Disney plus. They have new disclaimers for culturally sensitive material from their past. Digan that volts. Some stuff that would not fly today. There's a disclaimer. But is it enough and is there another studio showing them up and that department we then also put my theater theory degree to some good use and then my dad's GonNa be happy where we talk about the Brechin acting of act and how it is used effectively in storytelling. What it is and then we also talk about traveling to England and the theat Ta? We're GONNA get real classic on you and also Emma Watson's speaking of England. Did she marry herself. What is that about? I'm curious curious. We're GONNA talk about it and then in my corner I review twenty five amazing things to be grateful for that happened this past year into the husband nineteen was a dope year for Peos the LGBTQ media politics the environment and more. And you're thinking like but what was their hold onto your butts. There was a lot of great things for us to stick our landing on the end of this year. An Emerald being from the world of animation is going to take us into a look at the role of animation in terms of its diversity. The challenges ages where it is where it's going. Who's doing it right? And she has some awesome recommendations for you so get ready to learn laugh and play here at minority corner it because together. We're the majority the House I I. It's a rather Improv team. Token in all the way you know you came on board while I was away in San Francisco shooting fellow. Yeah I remember that. It's always nerve wracking when someone else joins a team or something something. Because I felt like this is how my mind works replacing me someone else's black on the team they're representing the Black Lady. You are mixed. Yeah Yeah So. I'm only half replacing. I but then I found that I. We did a sit and I met you. Yes improv scene. Together I found love. It was literally chemistry because we could just I was like Oh we speak the same language. uh-huh like black folks like you speak the same language a little thing that we could be Sassy together. None of the other teammates would have felt comfortable. Doing no not not at all and then on top of that we could take to like a whole `nother level levels like extreme only that we could like no limits in our scenes at all. When I I absolutely fell in love and I was like? Yeah we we. Now see that if I like because when and you're so used to being the only into something yes I so I felt threatened by your presence as opposed to being happens like it's a mindset like I realized that I try not to go down that whole rape whereas like at first I'll feel threatened. It's like no more we're GONNA be allies and friends it's weird how we get pitted against each other. We have opt yeah. Well it's like almost the most humanistic thing because you're just like all the way on defense just as a natural response instead of being like lovejoy flowers voice and also finally. I think it's hard like it when you're the only for some things. Yes it's there's a split reaction because you're so used to being the only only in this is like your token spy Eight shrouds six ten thirty PM. Did you Komo news to catch up on the calendar calendar. Glad I'm invited. I'll consider it. Oh my God house Oliver. and Oliver's grace companies not the the cultural point of the five guys Almost watching over in company. It's a given. It's totally is not one with the Fox. The Fox News Fox and Hound. Oliver and company is like it's it's the one about the cat and and he's like a kid in at first amongst a litter in a box on a damp wet street New York City and then everybody gets adopted but him MMA LO and behold a packer rat-a-tat. Dogs come along and take him in for for some reason. Here's the thing I remember. The name Oliver and company Lake cheap books they will like will produce. They don't really carry the plot any further. They're like you know like they're just like whimsical adventure. Ray relied right right and it's only half of a book. Having a bunch of those books for some reason I can think of is Tailspin. Though I can't remember this movie at all. It has been blocked out on my mind right now now. That is horrendous. I think we should fix that. Think like the overall theme and that that reminds me of frozen to. Has Anyone talked to you about prison to well. I watch the view religiously every morning. Okay yes and Kirsten Justin Bowel Kirstin cure center. Chris I feel like it's she's like she's fun. So it's probably Kierstead your Austin and then there's Kirstie Alley holidays Kirsten's jeweler and then there's there's then there's tons. Yeah which arguably is the only one who matters shave maybe Bloomberg. Wow Wow bowel. Because she was she was talking about how the writers of frozen to work with taking care of. It's like therapy and like oh the major plot of this one revolves around issues codependency. Who Wow on Sunday? I haven't seen it yet. Okay well yeah. I haven't seen it yet either but my coworker was talking about it. We were all having lunch and he was like. Yeah I who it was great and the next words that came out of his mouth. He just wouldn't expect usually gets totally about colonialism. ANEURYSM question mark. Okay I mean I think disease during thing where they're like cleaning up their closet they are sorry fucked up everything. Let's try to make it better. Yeah Yeah I think so back to Oliver. Yes on a scale of one to ten looking back doc Ho races and looking looking. Yeah it's flake it's always that moment in your head where you're like I love this movie so much nostalgia cry here Pinky but then you're like Oh wait this is actually pretty misogynistic sajjan stick. It wasn't that bad. I hid imagine that I don't know how misogynistic Oliver and it was a lady characters on it though. No there's like one little girl girl who lives in the test I know breaking it. Does she have any wines with other woman she name. There's one little girl follows your like regular plot. Do you remember Jenny and her parents. Oh you're just lumping you might as well just think of Airbud to all these animals very similar all has an orphan and honey so that was not done by Disney. Feel it was really dark. Oh let's go to heaven first of all the titles about death it right. We're we're coming out of the four kids yet. Ready kids for kids. I think it was the same animator who also did Russia doodle was shot declare. There's officers bad. WHOA heaven? There's a great team of Waffles waffles. And they look really good if I remember correctly isn't it yet. All waffles incur tend to slip ridiculously amazing. Everything about auto going to have an immediately want walk. Always want a woman Tom. Oh speaking of the Disney plus correct. Yes exactly now when you watched it. was there a disclaimer talking about the potential like racism of it cultural the pick show. That's really interesting. No there wasn't okay. I don't think that it would apply. So Disney plus does have for some movies lake in and Peterman House like a disclaimer. That is essentially about like there's some Outdated Cultural depictions and Hugh. Yeah we estimating which is about top Ning. Apparently even the aristocrats. Oh what's wrong with the aristocrats hats. Too much wealth thing. I know you're rewind even distribution of class in this film We're sorry yeah. So yeah like they say yeah in Dumbo. It says this program is presented as originally created. It may contain outdated cultural depictions. Uh Hello then which is like Oh cool. It's kind of like the disclaimer. That happens right. Right by Warner Brothers. What they're doing doing they have because they have one like racist Ti they say the cartoons you're about to see are products of their time they may depict some of the ethnic racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong. That are wrong today while these cartoons do not represent presents. Today's society they are being presented as originally created because to do so otherwise would be the same as claiming that these prejudices never existed. Oh I like that one You slot like air bb huge Disney. Sorry Right Warner Brothers. who what mastermind rope that really? I think this is why it's important to have diversity on team. Yes I I. It is is key because you got someone that's going to come out and and put this out there right right. Yeah that's so insane. I did not know that wasn't wasn't before Oliver and company it safe right. Oh it is. It's very Pierre Okay. Good very pure receive on the Oliver and company Snapping Evaristo. Cats everybody okay. I'm going to raise my hand and say I've never seen it like from beginning to end here. I I don't know why but I think it's one of those things that like. My best friend had Orissa cats. I'm VHS rotation yes yeah have to watch it yeah. It was. About some Pasha's cats struggle for something. They're really big on the animal. Thing and class animals does in class using love behind or not having a home yes using animals to portray cla- class potentially well. It's if I can dig into my Arts degree yes theater theory and storytelling theory essentially well. It's very breakfast and idea did you is. It's called the alien nation at some sort of fucking. What was brexit German? Some bigger and it's the fact essentially it's the alienate in eight the audience from what they're seeing because otherwise it becomes Humans and being rich or even like five all right yes able to sort of get it in this other way. Yeah like I'm not a mouse But then you can kind of see like Oh oh I see how this kind of reflects and relates back to me But not directly. Because I'm not a rat yes or like when you said something like in a different time period right vive data for me agree goodness yes because for me. It's a not from England Amway because I'm not not from England when I saw a picture of like spoiler alert Big Ben gets blown up and I'm like that as well. What would that be equivalent for me like the White House right right it just because it was also set in the future and it wasn't in my country? Yes you to connect the dots. I need to get something out of it. It's not too preachy. Right exactly and it's not a direct tie so you're not like as a hard hit hard. Hit for them right you. You can sort of empathize. Especially that's why when you Sifi so great for that as well because it's our way and so wait a minute. What's happening? He right right been in diving into a ton of sci-fi recently district nine is also really good for that. No I haven't I haven't talked about like essentially kind of like the apartheid but done with like alien creatures. I was leaning for kids. Not at all I mean kids gotta learn minority coroner kids gotta learn. So you're just aloe hello. Governor was switching. Old Guy was ovo crossed. The why do you know how it was on the East Coast and dip into a Boston accent like he would say. Oh yeah the car yeah. I'm pretty sure there's one for governor. MANASE helped us. Everyone is I talk to who says it's not true. It's not a thing. Okay what are they. I don't know they don't how was it before. No that was my first time. That was my first in London and he never gets you. I Made Mark London. London will never forget me her. UH-HUH I was actually here for work so not a lot of exploring but how fascinating I wasn't expecting to like love it so much huge Harry Potter Fan. So just walking around being late J. K.. Rowling Harry Reid this. She's like I don't know. Oh my goodness yes person. That's a big deal here Hussein. Cleveland Shonda RHIMES. Oh my goodness yeah. Everybody is like hopped up on Rowling. There roads even bigger the news. I'm like she's like a the beach she's there beyond Yes yes it would be like entertainment like music like shake she can it up literature and makes sense because we're still the rambunctious America right right again super. Yeah we're like angsty and they're over their books in biscuits biscuits and tea did you have I did. I'm I'm like one of my favorite parts is so I was recording for an animation project. And there that'd be a runner like a PA who would come in and take orders like what do you want. What do you want? What do you want and he would go around? He knew he would say like okay of T. of green tea of tape player Skates Walter. It's just my favorite to hear more run off the orders and a biscuit cookie. It's a heck in Turkey and skip. Biscuit is a stone. Yes so you'd have that with you haven't with some o'cl cream grey was good for you was definitely not delicious them all my goodness Glad you made it back at you. Like soups diverse so uncomfortable. I wasn't expecting that also. Yeah and also the architecture but yeah I'd also chew it's like I like the like it's up anything that you like about like New York work which was like less buildings a subway. That's like fucking clean guns right emperors. Nice people are so nice. Nice their New York right please. So you also. You're so close. You've been so classy. Went to the saw talk shop shop. I just saw Campbell. Not My goodness she was gas. Yes Co hosting the real which I watch the spin off of the view but we're just like all Melanin. Oh It's like oh my goodness all the VH1 like I love the nineties. Eighties Covers her nickname Lalla. No that's no longer the doing really well for her so I bet she's always had it in her actress now. Run May may fourth has lighted across the table. She also was on the view recently. There were all my goodness it. She says she watched the reboot. David silver husband. No wife this is about to say way God dammit. She pulled his scarred U. S. about this say Hinson has admitted that she did a bad job of listening to people wish she married to Colin Colin Farrell said the first call came Hinson Airways tweet legalize Hanson listening. She's she's walked back because she loves playing part meant for her This challenge Enj- me to really step outside myself Japanese woman in Costa Shop. Oh yes I remember that. And they problematic and then they try to say like no. There's not a Japanese woman and then I fell asleep watched on an airplane. Yeah just like you were Japanese movies. He was like I didn't noise Javanese ooh scarlet a lot of research. And then she was going to play like a trans man and then everyone was like please John. Yeah pleased was like look at all these eligible gotten to do it like. Oh Jeffrey tambor on. uh-huh Hoffman okay. Yeah well look companies lobby off. Those are the circles. You WanNa run then by all means because look at what sexual harassment. Yes Yeah Legal Shit to get her children exactly so there you go you want to be put into the universe interviews. He was like Oh and then I realized everybody had a problem with them doing it to the party. Welcome to the end of nineteen. I'm glad you're able to join us so tangent anyways from the teacher Campbell. Oh yes teasha. We love her for Martin. We love from the House Party. She's in the original original film. She is yeah. I don't know Pam so name I just love that like those two we now. It's really adorable. Really heartwarming. So what you're saying. Oh my God they used to this little little Indian team these little scattered around New York City But what's really fascinating about that is on the plane. Ride back from London in the movie was on the flight so I watched it so and then I landed. The show is that night. Oh Shit was like I'm into her connection connection. That's like fours yeah. A mandatory like world plane. Was this wars you you had no other races are often no. I had options I had. I Shan't welcome. I'm to British Airways the in flight movie will be a Nail Shop Lynn. uh-huh my good days So last thing you have news about Watson speaking of England. It's almost like we do Improv. Like where you're being Were ed where we performing I was about Satanic. Suddenly I`Ma Watson has self partnered meaning. She has legally married herself and her theory behind. It is just like self empowerment and end kind of like being your own person and loving yourself and being the person that you expect to see an partner but for yourself in in such a way that it's official. I have questions so she's married but what happens questions so whatever whatever I don't care what the fuck someone does. That's great but also we want to make some shits and giggles. What happens when she like one less? Maybe she's in like a poly-amorous it's relationship with her. Does she like meet someone. Yeah she's like. Oh my God. There's a divorce meeting on all these questions questions. I imagine that it's like yeah it's like Pollyanna Murray and she's her main person if you meet someone than their second Dan. I'm not mad at that. I like jokes and yeah and then the kind of make sense because honestly unlike any therapists will tell. Hi You I mean you've got an any therapists and Roopa will tell you if you stop. How the Hell you GonNa let anybody else has to be from within Yourself up before you're ever going to be able to love somebody else right and also I'm like nothing else. Has permanently ship is like this. PODCAST has will end. We don't want it to but sort of comes and goes every relationship because as soon as you see couples who've like we've been together seventy two years and then one of them dies in the next one is right out the door. The other person was their life. Yes so sad. That's really sad so but you've got to sort you've had a wild love affair first and foremost Be Your own soulmate. Yep and I think that she disbelieves not so much that she's Ghana officiated at which is like a power move a little bit. I don't know that I could ever do that. Expensive right hardy massage back like you have to do it on your own. ooh I like dope ass like Bachelor Bachelorette Party for though. I don't know. ooh ooh U's celebrating like you. Yeah that is your birthday but then he gets have to anniversary one. Yes your anniversary is essentially your birth thing. I do artists way right now on artists dates at least an hour to myself doing something moving. So it's like I went to I took myself to the Guggenheim onto the theater. I'm doing a pious cooking class. You take yourself are on like a date. So we're not so he'll give some love to watch. It's very important well speaking of attachment. I'm not attached. STAS not moving to the next corner. Double negatives yeah. Here's the next one this week on. Bullseye Lin Manuel Miranda on his dark materials hip hop and life after him. I know it's the first light of my obituary. Sorry so if that line is handled then what else can I do with my time here. It's Bullseye for maximum fun dot org and NPR in in other words ask just comes over and over again. Lean Shop Live Lina Pam and And then Martin comes in is like Damn Gina Gina. Maybe I'm sorry for sexually harassing you. Now the last six episodes ooh is that real yes. That's why I've ever watched last season. A Martin Gina Disappears and they're never in the episode where they're like going on a cruise and she misses the boat and there was supposed to be a back door pilot for Pam. One one of the episodes doesn't even have Martin in that all working at this record company as a backdoor pilot that didn't end up getting picked up in the final final episode. I I Martin and Gina don't share a single scene together in the final episode and then it was revealed that it's because of sexual harassment on his part. Yeah Cheese Listening very attentively to mourn radio messy so yeah there's that anyways now into the corner yeah so it's almost the the end of the year offense always like this year so shoot. He was wrong with the. I'm going to pump the brakes on all of that. And even though I did declare the I did take. DNA tests and turns out on one hundred percent. grinch even the grinch had hat heart. Eleven still grew hurts. This is my gift to you. All NSA wining. So here's my list of things that did happen into nineteen never actually really great gear first and foremost if you're listening to to this you survive. That's Hugh Yeah. This is a winning. You're already that could be a little less like you're here like whatever the fuck happened. You're still here now. That killed because you're listening to his way to go years awesome. Fuck out number two. This is just a random complain. Did you know that military historian and author Dr John H he's the thirteenth recipient of this big military museum and Literature Award anyways. He's the first. African Americans received the lifetime achievement in military right. Wow amazing that is so amazing. Black folks have been fighting for this country and every single one of the Mike good resigned yes despite the country being what it is what it is yeah number three. You have the ability to listen to this We don't have transcripts to the hearing impaired. But you're able to listen to this podcast broadcast win on some device. That's my fourth one on some d'auray right that you didn't have to make That you have the means pert like pay. Hey for accessibility accessibility. So this year is amazing. Number five look at all these Democratic candidates running to make this so so many plethora my God coming out of the Woodwork to survey injury. Yeah great debates grammar sation. There's so so many women yeah and so many topics not discussed prior previously in any other running. Yeah exactly and there's so many there's so many women there's there's two men of color won't count toll gobber mainly because I like her rogue hairpiece. Okay Yeah Counsel Yeah. This minority cornick air and one of them is gay. A serious issues black voters. He's polling at zero percents nine hundred appreciate that. He's a serious contender. Yeah he's slowly. No that's great Number six a record number of businesses have an antidiscrimination policy toward LGBT Q.. Workers and that came into place is year ninety three percent of fortune in five hundred companies include sexual orientation in their antidiscrimination policies eighty five percent have protections for gender identity such as transgender or non binary very and then sixty two percent of the fortune five hundred companies offer transgender benefits compared to four dozen thousand nine. So ow now why yeah. What a climb? I mean this year. This year is pretty amazing number seven. It's been the most diverse class of lawmakers in history to be sworn in. Yes so that's in the especially in one hundred sixteen congress so it has the most women with got the squad. There was like the first native American can female routes to be in there as well there are more. LGBT hugh officials in ever it went from five hundred fifty nine last year to the last the two years ago now to seven hundred and four why the fog tech. It's about time time. So the Q- Victory Refund is an organization that endorses and trains. These candidates Lori lightfoot S- Hershey Chicago. Yeah Eh she became the first black female and openly gay leader Chicago and I think she's the second woman to be elected to Chicago. And the first one to hold the office office since Jane Byrne in Nineteen Eighty three and I think she's now yes. She is mayor of the largest city city in US history to have an openly gay LGBTQ mayor. So wow yeah heard of her from like you were like fuck doc it is it absolutely is exactly what I was thinking in my head is. You're like listening this. I'm like Oh this is the chain reaction absolutely yeah. He was just a catalyst to such positive change. Honestly allow the oldest dirt and Muck hasn't been there and what it's done is allow us down on the forefront triggering people to get active right it is Sandra Oshii At the go the first Asian American American woman to win she also host. SNL amazing funny upper. She did She doesn't watch. I am as a now now within this last year also hired their first Asian American cast member. WHO's also we're and then? They fired their racist one on the same week. Oh let's see who cerise is twinned some white guy and who was the the New Asian American Guy Bowen Yang got it basil areas. He is so good he kills every Scotch because some of those little bit part. Yeah and we'll fair used to always say that he used to take all the bit parts because the part that the sketch isn't writer Diane you we have one line. People will be like that kind of fun. Yeah Yeah Yeah he's been doing like he consistently kills it on the little entrances number nine democracy our constitution and system of checks and balances. They've been working. And Yeah it's been showing up like the impeachment trials as an example samples. Yes it's very true. It's very true. Look at this the federal judge I kept the trump adleman from ending the minute. Federal Federal Judge kept the trump administration from ending. No no cost birth control on Jinyin the fact that trump was able to comment and make all these sweeping changes. I I know because we have our we actually the constitution it. It's really doubt Kinda work work. Yeah a lot of people try to like sell a little Bama. Didn't come in and commingle. Yeah and we purposely like that's the reason why like changes increment yes very true sometimes hits like a threshold where it just has to top over moments summits and certain things but there's a reason why sometimes it does take and it's for the benefit because that's why you can't get it's hard to become a dictator like we're for the better. The constitution is holding strong. Yeah we have so much freedom in this country that we honestly take for granted. It's very true even like you know you you. Can't I use facebook in China. Yeah Yeah I can go on facebook and say all kinds of fucking things trump I can say so on this podcast and I'm not going to disappear disappear. Marie hopefully I can. We have so much freedom. Well there is always there was always that moment where you hold breath in your like. Can he actually do everything that he saying right. And then when it doesn't happen it's like a huge relief. It's like okay. Ah Yeah. They knew what they were writing and seventeen hundred eighty. That's kind of a miracle that this should is like still holdings yes. It's it's it's a it's a well written document they did. y'All did a job. Hey props to you okay. Mostly by we came around we cleaned up not perfect. Perfect Mar Cy Martin's. She is little. She's I think she's fifteen fourteen fifteen. She's from Black Ish. Little girl from Black Ooh so big snaps her because in this year she made a movie little and she made her she was. She produced. What what she became the youngest executive film producer pure she produce Bucko? You saw her money because her shows on. ABC Yeah Right let me put the store wide and then missy Elliott was inducted into the songwriters hall of Banging Amazing Rapper in the bunch which is terrible. But she's there she is. She's the only female rapper. There ooh still work to be done rocket doc in that same history was made this year this year. Grey's anatomy Began at sixteen seventeen seasons now the longest running primetime medical drama and History Serene. I'm grateful for that. Oh my goodness 'cause grow shonda coach Sean. Sean does not so writing it. which is a testament to her? Yeah that she he was able to. She wrote the first six seasons. Be Oh I know that she created created a yes I write something and then have it live on after. Yeah absolutely absolutely. That's dope stained itself. I appreciate it because Greece anatomies that thing. I've had it through college ship. It's been there like posts like living living in San Francisco now here in New York friends. That work on this medical hospital have sex with each other and some of them are dead but like you know which which is just like your life right. Go sometimes Multiple you fell off your watching. Yeah I totally totally fell off for binge. I'm due for. I'm just not ready to open the floodgates of emotions yet. It is that you know like you. You have identified that pocket like I need to cry for five nights street. You're like I need to be darkened. Twister yeah I will say that because meredith the show orders darkened stormy. That was my drink. That was my go to drink while I was watching it for a few years after life and I feel so oh I can get dark and stormy. It'd be like while she's complex. I think the show I think is so impressive because I think it cracked the glass. Ceiling is shaping. What television could look like I think in the pilot? They didn't even have last names because they wanted to. Senator gender like Gender Blind cast. I think that actually I think Baylor's to be a man. Oh Yeah we are white woman or a lot of the rules so they had no assets they could just cast whoever right and I looked credit like I was watching the show I would have wagered that way. Sixty percent of the surgeons must be women. No ten percent of surgeons are women show and then again media can craft like how people view themselves in the world. Yes there's like people always genders or like it could be a surgeon absolutely one thing that I really actually appreciate his that Bailey. Her husband is like the sexiest man. You ever absolutely and I feel like just in that dynamic with beauty norms gender norms like societal standards for who belongs things with who challenges that I agree. Yeah let's see. Let us not forget that beyonce as homecoming documentary. Commentary happened this year. So that was wonderful. La- happens and thank you for that so I didn't have just been countless films this pastor. There's been so good. There's so much media that I can see starring people. Yes it's Oscar season. There's all these films that are coming out like there's the Queen Slim movie that's dropping angels. How did I I cast? No one wins. Go Watch that last week. Always be my baby. came out on that play. I I am a sequel to Christmas prince with Vanessa. Hudgens she is. I know you question grow okay or is that just a good thing in. I know I know I'm trying to search for it in the last name. Yeah well sometimes I thought it was a Latina girl for his time talion. WHOA okay shot me? I didn't know that I am nine looking back at them. Like what some of the question you you just never know. Selena Gomez also pse. Yes I knew that. Selena Gomez good for her also by adding in the Gomez. People don't get confused. Yeah yeah absolutely. Spike Lee finally won an Oscar on my clansmen thirty years in the thus adopted screenplay youth lad climate activism global. So Whitney Houston was right. Children are the future. They've been doing it up. We had sixteen year old old climate activists credit other users. who were protesting? They had their big walkout day and may just really bringing such amazing phenomenon nominal that was phenomenal energy in like here in the streets of New York you could feel it. It's amazing. Yeah this entire extinctions of movement and four but again Michelle Obama's becoming came out this year and it became memoir Ashburn get one with over ten million copies sold. Wow it was so bag everybody on the train was reading it perfect gift. If you haven't already I I love you haven't already who are you if you're already holiday shopping I I did the audio book and it was amazing. Oh really really okay. Maybe I should do it that way. Yeah because it's her telling you see her. Oh my God. Oh my goodness Carrie. Washington got her. And I'll tell you this. I think the book is Lake. It's like eighteen hours or something. It sounds like a lot. Yeah didn't want it to end. I my God five minute chunks. Michelle's GonNa leave me alone along. I'm definitely going to do the audiobook. Oh number eighteen. There's twenty-five right away because it's twenty minutes lease. I remember one of them. The environment made some strides so the European Union ban single use plastic good easing. This could help to change range. Avoid nearly twenty five billion worth of environmental pollution by two thousand thirty mazing. They've dubbed US AAC crisis as it is it is more companies went regenerative only about six because only about Oh and then that's about farming so there's only about six years of our current farming land. Why yeah otherwise? It's going to be shitty soil. So there is new like Ri- a regenerative processes that are happening. Yeah New York went bagless. Cows bagless for lane ten year. Gilt the program New York. Puerto Rico's a new sustainable standard with a plan to be one hundred percent renewable by twenty fifty. This was inspired after Hurricane Maria. Yes okay we got our own countries not going to help us out right figure it out ourselves yeah meatless. Mondays went for NYC schools. What's which alone if you just cut back of like cit Gal? I and it's all such it'll make you feel better standing. Livestock contributes a ton of SIA to own also disclaimers. I watch the latest assange ars episode fast. Fashion is destroying the environment. Like a lot of these closed. People apparently buying so much more close in the US too because the clothes don't last yeah throwing them away and Oh my goodness even the way. They obviously with their process. Yeah Yeah not good. Buy Clothes and hold onto them by second hand. And Yeah when you can hold onto your clothes and what if you WANNA get rid of them make it into something else. I don't know mine the way to give it to like a there has to be like a closed recycle. Yes yes so. Be careful Marie con-going make bands. You Hard Ekondo. Oh my God shy about yesterday. I'M GONNA throw it out the window Robert F. Smith's morehouse student remember. Robert Smith is the guy who paid off all the He was giving the speech. Morehouse doesn't nineteen gene and offered to pay off everyone at school student. That's which is huge because it's like black students and this is one of the hugest crippling thing for any any young I start off and have a good life and especially if you're a POC so that was a big thing. Many did Liz. Oh came into our lives and made our lives Louis. Just blow last year with her. She has the most grammy nomination. Sheet is twenty nine not she. Is Ooh twenty-one Drinking Age the California Crown Act bans workplace discrimination of have natural hair. That happened this year. Amazing no more employees or kids in the Golden State that they can't rock corn rows or locks or an offer to work the crown on average the acronym stands for creating a respectful and open world for natural hair. Pass the California state assembly in April signed into law by Governor Gavin. NEWSOM future president. Watch out in. Yes that's happening had to become law but I An only in California bar. I Love My estate number twenty. Two Kiki Palmer had no idea who dick. Cheney was not so Kiki but I love that live in a world where you're like I don't know I every time when I think about it. They showed her that photo. She's like I don't know this sorry to this man but I don't know I love that. She lived in because because I wish I did. You probably don't have bullets flying around your head right now. So that's a win this year going back to things that are making this year really great. Yeah I was watching this documentary and it was about the vice. I just got someone's. Hbo Jio go past Vice Archives. Yes so Saboteur Council. Yeah because they've got really good other documentaries yeah vice weekly weekly and first of all. They're journalists are Hella cool. You know very fresh yeah show. They're like gender not conforming in there in Syria Syria. Just talking to people getting the lowdown reporting getting this worldwide news coverage that we need. Yeah love it. So they're doing a thing about Yaman in just like the fighting that's happening over there and there's these kids this guy has been eighteen now and he's been fighting for the past six years. It was like again. I don't have any problems problems. I Want my God. I don't have any problems. They don't have any probably don't have the problems you think you are. You're only problem is thinking that you have problems not surrendering and letting go and being appreciative of what you have pre pre it number twenty four two more number twenty four Russian Schnitt. Russia hasn't taken over the US completely. Yeah yet a Russia is like that ominous certain people are not paying enough attention. I know on ten former power. Yeah like that. That's the thing while i. I was watching documentary. Active measures and essentially was about Russia doesn't think their economy is like the size of like taxes. Strong economy royal is Rachel Maddow's book It right now called blowout. I'm doing the audiobook of it. Three fascinating like so many of our issues that were hopping politically globally auken's onto oil. That's like Russia's main moneymaker and that becomes dangerous when that's your only moneymaker right and it's so much cheaper instead of like invading country than going from within and so just interesting now like even watching the impeachment trials and you're having Republicans are saying things straight out of like the Kremlin. Yeah Jones keep an eye out S- but I'm grateful they haven't taken over completely yet. Gave One number twenty five. Somebody loves you. Somebody loves you this year. How beautiful you love somewhere You love someone in some way in some facet so you know what does nineteen great right bucket near amazing when you put it like that great. Hey it's Jesse Thorn. We're very happy to announce that tickets for Max Fun. Con Twenty Twenty will go on sale Friday November twenty ninth at Eleven A. M. Pacific affect. I also want to let you know this coming year. Maximum Con Twenty twenty will be our last Max von Con for the foreseeable future for twenty twenty the and beyond. We're going to be looking for ways to connect with more of you in person. Spread the spirit of Max Fun farther than it's ever gone before in the meantime if you want to join us at the last Max. Von Con in Lake Arrowhead June twelfth through the fourteenth. You can find details at Max Fun CON DOT Com. Didn't the we're talking about cartoons. silliest amazing so you think freeing in my mind media your format well you can do anything. Yeah exactly it was possible. Yes that's why I got into it. Because it's like endless limitations like you have no limitations to what you want to portray you know and also throw village especially. I grew up with animation. I remember so much it was just loses for. Kids is for kids and now some of like. I'm watching big mouth on Netflix the simpsons is still going on also like anime. Yeah and again like you're so you're not limited by the mounds of like what is a human being could do in front of a camera. Yes yes or have the budget to be able to do. Yeah Yeah No. It's very true. Sometimes it can get costly but it sure. Yeah but it doesn't to your point. It doesn't limit what you can do in front of the characters you can essentially really achieve anything. If you want magic you can have magic. Yeah if someone wants to transform into something you can absolutely do that. What are some of the challenges with being being a woman of color animation? Let's dive right in on affects in this corn. Yes so I think being a woman of Color in animation has a ton of challenges because it all starts storytelling storytelling. It all starts with a script and prior to that you go through a development process but at script there are people in the room who are essentially creating creating a narrative and that is the road map for the entire production. That's the tone that you're setting for the next three years because animation it takes forever so when you're in that space in your kind of the only person there to represent that other girl of color on on the other side of the screen you have to learn how to navigate the terrain in such a way that you can say something and it be heard and executed headed and those are two separate things because just getting hurt is one thing and then for it to be executed in enough fenwick way is a completely different thing. Tout's how even have you noticed any changes like the past since you've been working over an animation starting to change you've the the only and who kind of responsibilities that put onto you being me. Only of late yeah. Your only voice waste is going to be so different than you know someone else right exactly and like all these people. Aw they all right right. No it's very true. I think that it's definitely changing. We were talking about that earlier. kind of like how. How Disney and Warner Brothers prefacing all of their content with certain sensitivity messages? So there's definitely a change in tone in the media. I I think that it's a matter of gutting. WHO's in the room from being old white men who are the case absolutely who are very used to a certain style of animation? The same style that that's being prefaced with a sensitivity warning. Now Uh automaking decisions creatively in a room and you being the person to be like do we need to say that do. Does this character needs to have this type of look is the character. That's designed as an Afro really crazy and wild and that's why you can't have them in the scene. That's a littoral littoral combat. Those are all practical examples of conversation. I don't ever think about. I mean with animation. Everything is so specific like breathing. That happens wins is so specific and planned out like the same thing like in a movie but also like with a movie or a TV show. It's like these are humans and you know like a I Davis is GONNA move over here shaking this but you don't have that sort of like you actually like the folks in the room you. You are the violence. Because you're like this character would do this would be in that room and it's all mapped out and planned. Yeah and you have to think about it like because because we are now in a time period where people are. It's it's at the top of your mind to include characters of color right but essentially it all all traces back to institutional ISM. Because here's why as I said before it all starts in the writing room. Who Do you want to feel your writing room with up professionals nationals? Who Know how to write for television? Who are the professionals who know how to write for television They're not that representative of the people on the other side the screen who are watching them therefore when you put in your script I want this character to be a black girl you best have someone in the room writing. According to that black girl we need to get that person in the room that can do that exactly sums unto UCB. And I. I remember thinking living here in New York and that's going to be so diverse my friends who daily show he was like. I'm like I'm going to say it's really why I'm like. That's impossible New York. Then I got there and then super way these are getting stages of how people and same thing at second city these are people build up these the skill set to be able to end the connection. Yeah get into the room to go to get into those writer's room. Yes I'm sorry so disappointing. Go to show and like the stages filled with a bunch like guys still on your team. You don't have more diverse races and I find the the teams that might have more diverse voices. Funnier her oh so much funnier. Because it's it's like untold stories right. It's like the story that you haven't heard again over and over and over which is like Seinfeld how I met your mother frazier. Freezer will and grace. That's where you're tapping into your comedy bucket inside your soul and you're also getting different reference points in different viewpoints. It's coming together and collide. Why the first season the first? Few seasons of the railroad was so interesting because it was different opinions coming to collide right the same thing when you have a team on stage knows how to really work quad together that are coming from different angles and viewpoints. Yes it's comedy soup right exactly. It was funny exactly weights is look out there in animation. Who's what's impressing you? WHO's doing it? Well so I would say. Netflix has a platform definitely finally has a an array of animation. Just from just talking about the different types they have a bunch of duty stuff they have a bunch of threes stuff and all that stuff is great I would say that so. Preschool is my jam. I Love Preschool animation. Why because I have nine? Hi Nick Siblings. So I always and I'm the oldest so I always grew up with preschool and school aged. Are Both my buckets. So I always grew up watching those specific types of animation Like my entire life essentially and then even when I became older I was like well. It's time for me to go out of this. Well no what I know. I love her and company exactly so I would say that super monsters. It's a preschool show. ooh recommendations we have many listeners. Who have kids and are also kids themselves so yeah super monsters? I on Netflix. Also Hilda her. Yeah Hill does a great. I Love Pepe. Pay Is the IT. 'cause she's from England. I think so so much fun. It's all simple ball girl. She's so simple and just so. Oh it's just easy breezy. I don't know if you remember Max and Ruby. There were bunnies just like going back to that line yet. Madeline was not alone. French I confusing. Madeline was very fresh also released did allies action. I was really excited about. It actually did but I mean the the cartoon itself didn't have a lot of action. It's like what are you gonNa go live action over half law for had again oh boy gutter pending seeking out. Let's start star. That happen in the movie or the enemies in the live action is a horror movie. That's actually is away. She falls over the boy and he takes her appendix out urban legend. Okay go back and watch the next movie. When I fly has madeline? Well sign me going so dark times other recommendation. So Hilda as so really another. It's another these simple. Yeah H it's kind of like going back to like little bill frank in Glen those simple times right like right now animations like POW POW boom. Yeah explosive super fast paced because add Yes because the kids who are watching have that type of attention span so the cartoon shows reflect that but we'll because we were eating a lot of sugar 'cause like gushers rushers exactly Sri all the commercials between literally. Just be like thirty pebbles Munwar. ooh tricks now. A toy which McDonald's is bringing back their vintage toy line line ho Ho like in their happy meals also will this. I don't know why but I think isn't Burger King doing moody meals or something. Do not be happy all the time. Dogs like they're like adult rudy meals into Eh. It's interesting because I honestly I I WANNA say it was a rambunctious child but like thanks a lot of energy and so for me. I will say I a slow pace if I could get me like Rupert to watch. No ooh Rupert at that. Would every day rupert I I was he a human boy. He was a bad oh he was but he had other funds was about otter all kinds of animals in the forest but they really like animals but human okay memorial sort of like Anna Morphine. Yeah yeah actual term for yeah there is and more and more or less yes pupil. Yes which Zootopia BIA. I hold up as definitely one of the Best Sogo animated feature film. Because you're talking like it's talking about the again. Braxton knowing you can see how a lot of this happening in Zootopia yes today. Yes and you can tell that. There was a writer in the room of that film. Who wanted to talk about the topic? Would you say that there's probably a writer of color in that room. I would say so. Yeah as you can tell. It's reflected in their. It's in the writing. Yeah Yeah exactly. So come down onto that. So what are your dreams and aspirations or or like I just you had me thinking I would love to see. I don't know if Ernie exists but you know. HBO Just had like two black about black lady. Sketch comedy show something like that of like an animation series like written With black of and behind the scenes. Yeah yeah women of color behind the scenes right. Yeah we'll because I'm I'm pretty familiar with the kids animated space right now. I would want an authentic a kids show that kind of that reflects really like I would say lower class like how I grew up in Miami lower class animated cartoons that can put that can make an accessible window for everybody into that very specific lifestyle but accessible for kids because people do it all the time in adult shows live action and animated. But they feel like it's. It's pretty uncomfortable. Like talking about like socio low socioeconomic anything communities neighborhoods. People who live in that environment man is a little uncomfortable so they avoid it completely forgets and I feel like they should absolutely have access to that. I thought he really is coming to mind. is like hey arnold right exactly exactly. And that was like however long ago was really Kinda just picks. He's very authentic narrative of living in a Brownstone just like his family and how his mom is all the Hamptons. I watched were dissolved. Disney afternoon noon. It was Chippendale. Yeah Yeah Gargoyles yes. Love gargoyles another good Shit I love does he plus Disney was this. Also this thing I forget the name of the actress but she who played a Lisa Maza jace forgot her name sexy directed a few episodes of Queen. Sugar uh-huh I just know. I know her name if I see it or hear it other I always like Argos was so amazing for wine. The Voice Voice of Goliath was a black man. And you knew yeah. Lisa Maza was like a mixed race. She was half black and half Latina. Oh Wow and she. WHO's played by half black? Half brother was also. I think our brother was extras full black. So there isn't a very interesting in the background of this show right. And because in in New York City like ratio itself and also there's all socially people it's such a dope cartoon 'cause it's got like themes of like Macbeth written and smart I'm GonNa Realize Cha and it becomes operatic because every story reconnect slink. The next yeah a lot about stuff like being the other and I'm absolutely going to remind one of the leads in the show was a black Latino. Oh yes exactly and that long ago ahead of the game now sensitivity warning need not only warning is. You're going to enjoy the fuck fucking warning or anything. It was already mic drop so that and then absolutely eventually creeping into older animation for adults that kind of portrays that black lady sketch show type while on a show show. That's doing it really well. In portraying narratives that are like authentic for kids. Is Craig Creek. Also that's on cartoon network super naturalistic mystic literally. No magic. It's a black family. Living in the suburbs and their kids go play at like in the ditch. Wow and they play imagination with cardboard. Were boxes and stuff but nothing happens. It's literally just a very authentic portrayal of. Yeah we WANNA play outside and have fun. This is what we have to Leiria area. So it's not like rugrats where it's like. They became the mega diaper now. Just know this is yeah kids boxes and that's what it really is a fine young John. Kids can be like. Hey let's like me seeing. This is me. That's why it's so commendable all the snaps because again like we spend so much time watching media and it's again the mirror that reflects US boxer salary. Don't see ourselves reflected by especially animation which I think like live. Action Suffolk Ethic. Disney was really quick to broaden like all of their shows having a diverse cast but it was seeming like animation was a little a bit slower. But it's because WHO's in the writer's room exactly so and then just on the topic of shows that are doing it right back to Hilda. Her her mom. It's just her and her mom so it's not your typical nuclear family. You don't see that a lot either. Yeah exactly And she is like it's girl lead. She's the main character bad ass adventures. Just kind of really setting the bar for girls on the other. The screen watching it who are hesitant about their adventure. They've the venture flavor that lives inside of them that they want to like jump on. She's is that for them so when they feel that they see her doing it. It's like an amazing. It's just an amazing cartoon awesome. Well thank you for doing the work that you're doing doing animation and we're coming by and giving us these information tidbits yes Watch Oliver and company remember the music. You love it for the music. If nothing else I wash. Yes yeah me too Oliver company I do remember is one of my favorite ones. I had books on it but I think what happens. I would get the books spin off books confused with the the actual US type of it. So the book now fascinating cat to George Jean. I Love Star Jet Jet Jet. Yes Georgia Oh yeah. And she wakes up in the curtain. Her canopy rises companies. Winnings was the plot of Oliver May. Scream okay yeah yeah okay okay. Your Cat Lion King is just the hamlet in basically all right cool. Yeah because I remember watching Oliver Oliver Company and then we also watch all of these are some alerts are both Gina was my favorite yes she's amazing multidimensional human being perfect. She's not her clever. She's a dog. It don't cats per do y'all berries all the time and and cats cats cads. Did you see that cat trailer. Yes the live action not excited to Jennifer. Say I just get another song. You McKay they do you. Just can't it's so great. Still stand by the production team of the Lion King and the practice cats at a switched. I I think like to do a live action. The Lion King would be more interesting if it was actually like more live action. It's actually an African kingdom. Yes yes I think you could have I think and then they would have. CGI them as sort of like an morph ick. It would have been like okay. This is interesting. They're kind kind of human kind of these animal. Ray were well honestly. They were testing the technology out. Kosov that C. J. Technologies but beyond achievable right now so what they could achieve ways due to because I think these should mcadoo just like have actually cat like this. Let them look at cats. All the cats are singing. Human cats at the box office now too soon goes to Charlie's angels inside uh-huh for Queensland such. Jeez alright. Yeah well that's the show. I hope you had a great time. Had such a good time with Emerald Emerald. Thank you so much for being on the show so much fun just a little bit of housekeeping a little bit of fact checking checking myself as I am doing editing these days so I'm able to year what the fuck I'm saying so one thing they think we don't take an account is that you know England. When is really great but we also also factor in its diverse but also because of all the colonial? Wasn't that did so. Obviously people would sometimes go back to the country that colonize denies them so pointing out that Lala who we love her as an MTV VJ from way back in. She's such an actress. Not only was she not not now but she's also been empower our which I know I've been sleeping on it. which is on the views talking about her on the on the show power? I know. It's a huge hit. Making my way to it. It's on showtime or something. Someone giving is their passwords for that. I don't know give it to me The country's down in seventeen seventy six seventeen thirty which I kind of let slip but you you know words. They're hard sometimes and at Lisa. Maza was voiced by Salli. Richardson who you might remember. I guess correctly that she would be the one writing eighteen episode of Queens sugar way back when when An had queen sugar into the this woman was going to directing episode and I was like at least a Mazda but our real name is sally. Richardson and I know in some ways. This list of twenty five things that are really great in this past year like everyone does have struggled at the gate it if if you were going through some things but I do want us to also look and see. They're always great. An amazing things also happening around us a lot to be grateful for so find in those little grateful things. There's little gratitude things and you can send us an email here at minority coroner or through social media. Get in touch with us. I promise INSTAGRAM MS coming soon. And that's it for this week's episode. I love you all so much and thank you offer. This needs minority corner because together we are the majority. The maximum fund dot org comedy and culture are stoned audience supported.

New York City Hugh Yeah Disney England writer Oliver. US Cy Martin Russia London Emma Watson Netflix San Francisco Black Lady Lina Pam Right Warner Brothers. UCB Warner Brothers Fox News harassment
February 28th, 2019

Buzz Burbank News and Comment

1:13:37 hr | 1 year ago

February 28th, 2019

"The following presentation is brought to you by the realm network. Those Burbank news in common. In the beginning. Or beginning of the end. This is Thursday February twenty eight twenty nineteen. Thank you for supporting independent news by patronizing, my sponsors and the pay pal. Donate button at buzz, Burbank dot com. Nice country. You've got there the ashamed if anything happened to it. Russia's government owned television news this week said that Moscow could turn the US into radioactive ash. It said that using hypersonic missiles that travel more than five times the speed of sound it could strike the Pentagon and or the presidential retreat at Camp David Maryland inside of five minutes from submarines just outside US waters. The Kremlin says it's not threatening anyone or now specifically it says that if the US uses its pull out from a nuclear arms deal to create or place new medium range nuclear missiles in Europe, then Russia's says it will be ready for a new Cuban missile style crisis. The decision to pull out of. Nuclear arms deal signed by president. Ronald Reagan was made by the current president this latest heart-stopping development from Russia puts a chilling context on everything else, you're about to hear a former lawyer for Richard Nixon dropped a bombshell in congressional testimony. That was the beginning of the end for that president yesterday, a former lawyer for Donald Trump took that a step farther. Michael Cohen brought evidence documents including a check from Trump's personal account and signed on March seventeenth two thousand seventeen by Donald J Trump who was by then the sitting president of the United States Cohen quoted Trump is saying it was partial reimbursement for the hush money payments to stormy Daniels one of a series of payments to cover that one hundred thirty thousand dollars paid to avoid harm to the campaign. The money becomes an illegal unregistered campaign contribution of felony worthy of impeachment. When the payoff is signed by sitting president Cohen said the hardest part for him was lying. Malania calling her a kind good person he greatly. He respects coding Cohen. She did not deserve that Cohen testified that Trump lied to the American people when he said and instructed Cohen to say the Trump had no business in Russia. Go and said Trump was an active part of the negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow well into the campaign go and says that during the Iowa caucuses Trump repeatedly asked him. How's it going in Russia? He testified that the sitting president had advanced knowledge of both the Trump Tower in New York meeting with Russians and the WikiLeaks, dump of democratic emails stolen by Russia. Cohen said he overheard a speaker phone conversation in which Roger stone informed, Trump that WikiLeaks was about to dump emails damaging to Hillary Clinton. Cohen says Trump responded by saying wouldn't that be great? To news of the Trump Tower meeting the president's denied knowledge of Trump responded. Okay, good. Let me know under oath Cohen hinted that there is another investigation involving Trump that had not been discussed it yesterday's hearing one in which he says Trump clearly broke the law. He said the matter was under investigation by the federal prosecutors from the southern district of New York, and then he couldn't talk about it any further. It wouldn't be about the inauguration or campaign finance laws which were covered in the hearing. This other investigation would also have nothing to do with anything being investigated by Robert Muller. It would appear to involve the Trump organization of which Cohen was a subsidiary. Go on the Trump never thought. He would win the election and repeatedly that the campaign was a big infomercial for himself and his business. Cohen coach Trump is calling it quote, the greatest infomercial in political history. Michael Cohen, testified that Trump directed into write letters to Trump schools, threatening them not to release his grades or I q scores going brought an example of those letters. He says it can bring more he testified that Trump directed him. Not to answer media questions about the medical to firm, it that kept Trump from being drafted into the Vietnam war allegedly saying, you think I'm stupid. I wasn't going to Vietnam looking into the camera because he knew Trump was watching from Vietnam Cohen said he founded ironic that quote, you are in Vietnam right now Cohen testified that Trump is a racist. Once saying black people would never vote for him, quote because they are too stupid and challenging coordinated one country with a black leader that wasn't a shed hole. While Obama was president. That's a quote driving through a distressed neighborhood in Chicago, Trump reportedly said to Cohen that only black people could live that way. He also called the president a con man and a cheat. And while Democrats on the committee question Cohen about a range of concerns Republicans focused on this. Crediting the witness one, even using the phrase liar liar pants on fire. Cohen sat patiently for nearly eight hours as he named names and answering Democrats calmly stated questions and fending off a Republican barrage of shouted accusations. That Cohen was just telling more lies Cohen had appeared in spite of public apparent threats by both Trump and Rudy Giuliani to drag Coen's family through the mud and the fire up. Trump's supporters a Republican congressman from Florida is now under investigation by the state bar association over his tweet that threatened Kohan alluding to alleged girlfriends and asking whether Cohen's wife would be faithful while he was in prison the threat came in the words, she's about to learn a lot Florida's Matt gaetz has since apologized and removed the tweet, but his office says the bar investigates. Even the trivial gates, however remains under investigation and the potential crime. He's facing is serious at times defending his. Former boss Michael Cohen closed out yesterday's dramatic testimony by challenging wide range of Trump policies and behaviors and urging Trump supporters not to be misled into misery as he has been and during an emotional closing speech by committee, chairman Elijah Cummings Cohen wiped away tears, especially when he listened to how federal prisoners treat newcomers who've been tagged as rats as Trump has labeled Cohen, and although he had no evidence to offer Cohen says his familiarity with Trump's win at all cost mentality. Led him to be suspicious that Trump did. In fact, enjoy help from Russia in his presidential campaign. Yesterday's Michael Cohen hearing may be remembered as what will turn out to be the start of the impeachment of Donald Trump. This may have been the first hearing the day before. And again today Cohen is testifying behind closed doors Tuesday. It was the Republican led Senate intelligence committee where Cohen likely faced the same attacks on his credibility and today Coen testifies. In secret with the house intelligence committee. And although there will be reductions to protect ongoing investigations and matters of national security, we can expect to see transcript from those closed door sessions and even with reductions, they may tell us even more in just two months. Michael Cohen heads for a three year prison sentence for his own selfish crimes about which he also lied as he now seeks redemption through endless cooperation with investigators at all levels, he delivered passionate apologies to the members of congress to the American people to his own immediate family, and to his parents a man as close to the president as any as leveled serious criminal accusations against that president and provided documented evidence as the Muller investigation continues as it will until that report drops congress will now also investigate on the eve of the Cohen hearing, former US attorney general Eric Holder wrote that constitutionally a sitting president can be indicted. For the vast majority of concerned Americans. It's been all about the Muller report. What have we learned in nineteen months since a respected Republican ex marine and FBI director was named special counsel to investigate Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen election and other crimes related to that interference Robert de similar. The third is still believed to be very close to finishing his report at least two-thirds of the country is anxious. Yes. Anxious to hear it as it turns out. The Muller report will not be published this week after all, but nearly everyone agrees it is nearly done. There will likely be efforts to keep us from seeing it, and there will definitely be efforts to make sure that we do smart money is on. We will see the report. The odds are nearly as good that Muller will on completion of that report unseal, those sealed indictments and file more charges or recommend to other federal prosecutors that more charges be filed it appears Muller has already shared evidence. And other information. With those other federal prosecutors and Muller's grand jury remains on call until sometime in July. Even if the motor report were finished today. There are hurdles to cross for us to see it Muller is subject to do -partment of Justice rules, which require him to turn over to the attorney general a confidential report on who was charged and who was investigated, but not charged the attorney general newly confirmed William bar, then has to write a summary of that report send it to congress. That's the law, but the Democrats who control the house want to see the entire report and any documents Muller may attach to that report. It isn't clear how attorney general bar will respond to that bar has said he'll be as transparent as possible. But that's vague in light of the anti Muller pro memo, he wrote to the White House that ultimately got him Jeff Sessions old job if bar refuses congressional Democrats will pounce the chairs of six different house committees have already joined forces to say quote. In the strongest possible terms. Our expectation is the department of Justice will release to the public the report special counsel Muller submits to you without delay. And to the maximum extent allowed by law. If attorney general bar leaves anything out of his report House Democrats say they will demand to know why? But one of the key phrases in their demand is without delay. Democrats worry that a delay. Could mean bar was trying to cover up some of Muller's findings House Democrats plan to demand that the Justice department it overseas, preserve all records and documents related to that investigation. They also plan to continue a precedent set by House Republicans who demand they be given classified and law enforcement sensitive information to investigate the FBI's work when Republicans controlled congress, and it would seem hypocritical for Barda withhold any of that since his department had provided those kinds of confidential documents in a Republican controlled investigation of Hillary Clinton's private E mail. Server specifically, the president was said by former FBI director James Comey who bent over backwards to supply House Republicans with briefings the transcripts of witness interviews and more in that Clinton Email probe Trump himself. Declassified a secret surveillance warrant, even Iowa. Senator Chuck Grassley got to see classified data after he said he wouldn't vote to confirm rod Rosenstein without seeing the classified Russia's stuff. I it's a bad precedent for law enforcement in terms of protecting. It's confidential informants alone. But Republicans let that genie out of the bottle and Democrats now plan to employ it their demands may or may not work since William bar has made it clear he plans to stop this bad president here. And now if that happens the house committee say they will subpoena the report and those related documents they can also subpoena. The man who wrote it we will bring Bob Muller into testify before. Congress says. Judiciary committee chairman, Adam Schiff, but shift doesn't think attorney general bar will let it go. That far in the end says shift, I think the department understands they're going to have to make this public. Adding, I think bar will ultimately understand that as well. We are going to get to the bottom of this said Schiff. And while it may soon be the end of the Muller. Proably investigating will not be over investigations will continue in various federal jurisdictions, including Washington, DC and New York. We're Trump's business is based state investigations are underway with the aim convicting those who might otherwise escape punishment, by way of a presidential pardon and Muller's report lives on in congress when Watergate special prosecutor Lee under ski presented congress with his report, it gave lawmakers a roadmap to follow pointing to possible witnesses, and what they might be asked under oath with the Muller probe over house. Democrats can call witnesses. They couldn't during the special prosecutor's investigation. They can even call former national security advisor, Mike Flynn. Now who was the first to give Muller what's been described as substantial cooperation, and they can still call the very cooperative. Rick gates, Trump's former deputy campaign manager and the right hand man to Paul Manafort, and they can do all of that. While a court fight. Over release of the mullahs report is underway house. Democrats say they won't wait for the Muller report won't wait for the courts to decide when it comes to pursuing their own investigations. And as the oversight part of our government, the lawmakers can investigate things that Robert Muller's Russia probe could not the heads of those six House Democratic committees. Who wrote a joint letter to attorney general William bar demanding he make the Muller report public added. This reminder the president they wrote is not above the law. Even the Republican led Senate may be getting in on this. The Senate intelligence committee is keen to interview an American businessman, who's at a longtime business relationship with Trump and American based in Moscow who can reportedly shed light on leverage Russia may have over Trump dating back to the nineteen ninety s David Giovanni has been on the committee's witness list for months as it to investigates, the Russian attack on the two thousand sixteen election that was in favor of Trump and against his opponents Giovanni worked for Russian oligarch Oleg Dera Pasca who was in contact with Paul Manafort Giovanni us also helped organize Trump's nineteen Ninety-six trip to Russia to pursue a Trump Tower in Moscow, the house intelligence committee also wants to talk with Giovanni as it investigates Trump's business dealings and apparent campaign law violations based on information volunteered last month by Michael Cohen as he continued to try for a further reduction in his sentence. What Cohen offered up may have been. Valuable since a judge agreed to delay. Cohen sentencing to make way for both a shoulder surgery and cones new testimony for congress congressional watchdog committees can investigate Trump's finances. Trump cannot draw a red line there for congress as he tried to do with the Muller probe another place. Congress can go that Muller could not and congress wants to know why Deutsche Bank was the only New York bag that would still do business with Trump in spite of his reputation as a bad loan risk that has locked him out of other banks. He still owns doce Bank one hundred thirty million dollars voting intelligence chair Adam Schiff, there's a heightened need to look into anything that could compromise the president or the country we may be in two places at once right now, we are at the end of the beginning and very possibly the beginning of the end of the Trump presidency unless he is pardoned Trump's former campaign manager. Will likely die in prison. Manafort is about to turn seventy Muller's DC prosecutors on Friday recommended a prison sentence of roughly twenty years for the crimes committed consecutive to the twenty some years Manafort may be facing in the federal court in Alexandria, Virginia. We'll hear that Virginia. Verdict. I early next month and Manafort faces additional ten years for the conspiracy and obstruction crimes he copped to last year as part of a plea deal. He immediately betrayed the deal is off those charges stick, and they also carry prison time in theory. The Virginia judge could sentence Manafort to eighty years in prison, the judges usually go with the prosecutor's recommendation Manafort would get credit for the nine months. He's already served behind bars. In the Virginia case Muller made no specific sentencing recommendation, just that it should be a serious sentence. That would also discourage such lawbreaking by others and such lawbreaking. It was according to the Muller team, the special prosecutor sentencing recommendation for the Trump two thousand sixteen campaign manager called him a bold and hardened criminal who repeatedly and brazenly violated the law Manafort, lied, it said to tax preparers bookkeepers banks the treasury department that department of Justice in national security division, the FBI and the special counsel, the grand jury members of congress members of the executive branch, and even to his own lawyers goading, the sentencing recommendation Manafort, chose repeatedly unknowingly to violate the law whether the laws prescribed garden variety crimes such as tax fraud, money laundering, obstruction of Justice and Bank fraud or more esoteric laws that he nevertheless was intimately familiar with such as the foreign agents registration act. The prosecutors continued is criminal actions were bold some of which were committed while under a spotlight news work as the campaign chairman and later while he was on bail from this court, given the breadth of manafort's criminal activity. The government has not located a comparable case with the unique array of crimes and aggravating factor and quote. For his loyalty to the presidency of Donald Trump, Paul Manafort gets life in prison unless he gets a presidential pardon. Will Trump return the loyalty by granting that pardon and picked attorney general William bar was the attorney general who urged president George H W Bush to pardon six people in his administration's Iran contra scandal, and if Trump were to pardon Manafort, would it matter if state prosecutors say they've got Manafort covered with state charges, and they might. Double jeopardy, you see doesn't apply to new and different charges state. Prosecutors are allowed to introduce into evidence the things to which Manafort has confessed in his plea deal with the feds and with state convictions Manafort would serve his time in a state prison. That's exponentially worse than a federal pen on way or another it appears that a man endlessly loyal to Trump has sacrificed himself and gotten death in prison for it. The making of history is always more dramatic when it happens in our own time and dramatic history is still being written. Been a week of political defeat for Donald Trump. At addition to the scandals in the enclosing Russia probe. Trump has run into a wall in his desperate bid to build a wall to deliver a campaign promise made by accident. This was the week that more than two dozen members of his own party twenty-six. Former Republican lawmakers called on current Republican lawmakers to vote down Trump's border emergency declaration. This was the week that thirteen current Republican lawmakers did joined Democrats in voting down that declaration in the US house of representatives the law requires the Senate to now vote on it within the next three weeks. The declaration is also likely to be rebuked there, but with too few votes to override a certain presidential veto putting the ultimate decision to the courts, which are also likely to strike down the declaration. This was the week that nearly six dozen former national security officials signed a letter saying there is no emergency at the border, and certainly not one that. Justifies robbing money from the defense budget vis thirteen page letter signed by fifty eight former intelligence chiefs, diplomats cabinet secretaries and other security personnel calls Trump's border emergency quote at odds with the overwhelming evidence in the public record, including the administration's own data that came after sixteen states had sued to block the emergency declaration. This was the week. We learned that more than four thousand five hundred unaccompanied children have been reported as sexual abuse victims while in US custody as of the end of two thousand eighteen another thirteen hundred cases are on file at the Justice department, at least one hundred seventy eight employees of homeland security have been identified as molesters. This was the week that house oversight started investigating the family separations that have been part of Trump's anti-immigration policies committee member Jerry Nadler, referring to the family separations as kidnappings Trump's Paul. Disease mostly based on falsehoods and fantasy include the wall he will never get. And this was also the week that a former general testified for congress that there is no emergency along the southern border. That requires the use of the military air force, general Taranto, Shaughnessy is the military commander in charge of protecting our homeland as head of the US northern command and the North American aerospace defense command, he says the real threat is Russia. An urgent threat be called. This is the chilling context in which this presidency and the election interference scandals occur. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed what salon dot com's Bob Ceska noticed in the Cohen hearing. Thank you buys the line that kept circulating through my head. Wednesday evening is the one spoken by deep throat in all the president's men. The truth is these aren't very bright guys. And things got out of hand. Weirdly, I'm not talking about Donald Trump and his inner circle this time, though, the line certainly applies to them to I'm specifically referring to the Republican members of the house oversight committee who rather than defending Trump decided on the singular tactic of referencing Michael Cohen's conviction on perjury charges for lying to congress on the surface. The gamut was intended to emphasize that Cohen is a proven liar. And therefore he lacks credibility to be taken. Seriously. The tactic is part of the overall Trump approach damn the torpedoes full speed ahead to election day. In other words, if the court of public opinion believes Trump is innocent while literally everyone else's lying, then Trump will likely retain his base. When votes are cast in twenty twenty naturally, the red hats will never abandon Trump. Anyway, if he makes it to the election without being removed from office, he can certainly count on at least thirty percent of the popular vote roughly the same percentage who thinks there's a deep state CU in progress against their bloated. Messiah those votes are secured already so therefore desperate flailing attempt to convince them that Cohen is a liar was a totally wasted Evert. Actually, it's more than a wasted effort. It's a totally counter-productive one. Not only did the oversight. Republicans led by permanently ash and ranking member Jim Jordan and definitely not a racist racist, Mark meadows. Look like screaming dilettantes during the entirety of the hearing. But they also failed to actually defend Trump against any of the charges, especially in including the new ones from Cohen along those lines. Trump's former personal lawyer accused Trump of being a racist a con man and a crook who told Cohen to lie about payments made to stormy Daniels. And Karen McDougal Cohen also accused Trump of committing Bank fraud insurance fraud and a variety of other federal crimes, it's also possible. That Trump ordered his criminal defense lawyer j Secolo to edit Cohen's congressional testimony. So the entire team was on the same page regarding wind to go. She ations for Trump Tower Moscow ended believe it or not, however, the oversight Republicans most agree GIS tactical error wasn't any of the affirmation blunders. If we read between the lines it's easy to see the miscalculation, Jordan meadows, and the others repeatedly claimed Cohen lied to congress. What they didn't say is that Cohen's lies involved. Exonerating Trump claiming that his boss wasn't working on a real estate deal with the help of Russians close to Ladimir Putin. Put another way Cohen lied to cover up Trump's negotiations with Russians at a time when he insisted he had no business with Russia. Perhaps this isn't what the Republicans wanted to high. Highlight with their dumb little show on Wednesday. But there it is. Yes, Cohen lied. He lied when he said Trump was innocent. Not a smart move by the oversight Republicans. Likewise Cohen revealed during his testimony that he never went to Europe to negotiate on Trump's behalf. The Prague meeting noted in the Steele dossier. He also said he's not aware of any controlled substance abuse by Trump, and he said, he didn't believe Trump punched Malania in an elevator. The alleged elevator tape and Coen made it clear that Trump hasn't paid for any healthcare procedures for people not in his immediate family. I took this to me, and that Cohen isn't aware that Trump has paid for any abortions for his various mistresses a question, I suggested to the house oversight Democrats on Tuesday. If Cohen is such a liar. Was he lying about Trump being abusive to Malania or perhaps the controlled substance thing? I don't believe he lied about those details, but do Jordan, and the others believe Cohen was telling the truth when it came down to good news for Trump. We'd have to as them. And I hope someone goes there, given how the entire GOP argument was Senator. Round Cohen being a pathological liar during the hearing, by the way, the Republicans displayed a placard with a photo of Cohen and the bold text liar liar pants on fire. It was slightly less childish than their actual behavior in tactics in the room. What was their plan be wet willies and purple Nerpa lls with defenders like these who needs haters, contrary to the Republicans in attendance, Michael Cohen in the House Democrats made history in that room. And I'd be remiss if I didn't give credit to Alexandria Keizo Cortes who was particularly well prepared and whose questions were among the most relevant to the criminal proceedings against Trump and his co conspirators, meanwhile, if I were the president or Donald Trump junior I'd get very little sleep tonight or through the rest of the year for that matter. The odds of prison sentences for both junior and senior seemed to have improved significantly this week. And no, these aren't very bright guys and things are more out of hand than they've ever been. I'm Bob Ceska for buzz Burbank. News and comment. Thank you, my friend. Get more of Bob with a subscription at patriotair dot com slash Bob, Ceska show or Tuesdays and Thursdays at realm network dot com. I joined Bob on his show every Tuesday, and I'll join him Jody Hamilton and David Ferguson for a special Cohen edition of the Bob Ceska show, the safter noon before Trump left revient nam to meet again with North Korean leader, Kim Jong UN aides to the president told politico, Trump, stands alone and believing he can persuade Kim to give up his nuclear arsenal. And some worried that not only would the meeting produce no results, which it didn't. But they also feared their boss would be outfoxed by Kim. They were afraid Kim would persuade Trump to pull most or all of our troops out of vitally strategic South Korea. They worried Trump would revive empty promises and again declare a big victory. A big victory is what Trump feels he needs right now, which already put him in a weakened. Bargaining position Kim had everything to gain by at least compromising on his nuclear arsenal. But nothing to lose. If he didn't get what he wants what he wants is the kind of economic development. He's seeing right now in Vietnam, which has normalized relations with the US and Kim once a thriving economy something North Korea desperately needs to feed its people. But that's something Kim and his people have already lived without. It was Trump more than North Korea who needed a victory as the Russia investigation awaits him upon his return. Trump was headed home this morning empty-handed. He is much touted talks with Kim ending abruptly. Kim had demanded that all worldwide economic sanctions against his country be dropped before he would lift a finger to denuclearize Trump had hoped to leave Vietnam the denuclearization agreement and maybe a declaration to officially end the Korean war, but Trump's mission had failed another in a series of failures defeats and setbacks for this president this week. Trump returns home a severely weakened president early last year, Donald Trump referred to Kim Jong UN as a maniac and little rocket man was threatening to quote, totally destroy North Korea. And he may again after these talks, but by April of last year, Trump's tone changed dramatically just before his first meeting with the North Korean leader, Trump called Kim, very open and very honorable in June after that meeting he praised him as a talented negotiator and said he looked forward to a second meeting. He told Fox News that Kim is quote, the head of a country. And I mean, he's the strong head. Adding don't let anyone think anything different. He speaks in his people sit up at attention. And then Trump added one more thing that set off warning bells in people who worry about his love of a thorough -tarian rule. I want my people to do the same. He said later, he insisted he was kidding telling a reporter, you don't understand sarcasm. But in the same interview. View Trump had again showered praise on Kim Jong UN and said, it's great to give him credibility. In September of last year. Trump praised Kim again in a speech to the United Nations General assembly. That's when he called chairman Kim courageous later that week at one of his midterm campaign rallies. He told his supporters that he and Cam quote fell in love because of Kim's quoting again, beautiful letters, Trump says negotiations with Kim were tough, but added and then we fell in love. Okay. No, really. He wrote me beautiful letters we fell in love. So how did we get from point a maniacal rocket man to point B, we fell in love? Trump doesn't listen to the experts. He doesn't listen to his own people. So who put this idea about the North Korean dictator being such a great guy in Trump's head? We rewind to 2017 for the answer when North Korea successfully test-fired, an intercontinental ballistic missile US intelligence informed, the president of the task. But he didn't believe them calling. It a hoax as former acting FBI director. Andrew McCabe explained last week. He thought North Korea didn't have the capability to launch such missiles, McCabe continued. He said he knew this because Ladimir Putin had told him so Trump again believed Putin over his own intelligence experts. The Wall Street Journal reported last year that the reason Trump said he would stop the joint military exercises between the US and South Korea is because Putin had suggested it as a way to soften the North Korean leader. So Trump announced an end to those exercises without checking with our intelligence without checking with our military or our diplomats because Putin said he should. This week Russian foreign ministers here gala Roth said the US has been asking for the Kremlin's advice on how to deal with North Korea in this week's summit. Also this week Trump said he believed Kim Jong own when Kim said he knew nothing about his country's mistreatment of the late. American auto warmbier. What could possibly go wrong? Just before this trip. The secretary of state publicly said that North Korea still poses a nuclear threat contradicting the president's claim that it doesn't in defense of his boss. Mike Pompeo argued that Kim continues to show commitment to denuclearizing the Korean peninsula. That was before the trip. Besides said Bombayo that's not what he said referring to the president. But on June thirteenth Trump tweeted, and I quote, there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea. So that is what he said. But wait there's more last month, the director of national intelligence, Dan Coats, testified for congress, quote, North Korea will seek to retain its capabilities and unlikely to give up its nuclear weapons and production capabilities. Trump responded by saying coats had been misquoted and that didn't happen either. It's the lying again and strangely lying about our allies, South Korea the one without Kim Jong on. In a February twelve cabinet meeting. The Washington Post reports Trump said South Korea, we defend them and lose a tremendous amount of money. Billions of dollars a year defending them, South Korea is causing his five billion a year. We have to do better than that. He was still fired up from the previous night's rally in El Paso, where he told the red hat's he'd forced South Korea to pay another half billion dollars, which he claimed no one has ever thought of before eight days earlier, he told face the nation. You know, it's very expensive to keep troops. There. You do know that we have forty thousand troops in South Korea. It's very expensive. The US military believes having troops in South Korea in cooperation with South Korea's military protects the lives of well over fifty one million people, including nearly a quarter million Americans there. It's part of an agreement. Two countries signed in nineteen fifty three and South Korea is still strategically important. Trump was again spreading falsehoods, South Korea. Does not cost us five billion a year. It's under. A billion, and it's defense spending has increased at a rate even faster than that of the US. So it is contributing South Korea covered ninety percent of the cost of a new American military base. That's worth about eleven billion dollars. And it's now the biggest US military base overseas. The new deal is South Korea wasn't done into phone calls as Trump claimed but with rounds of negotiations and South Korea is also just under a billion. We do not have forty thousand troops in South Korea. Trump missed it by well over ten thousand the actual number is twenty eight thousand five hundred backed checkers say the recent Trump claims about our ally, South Korea are completely false. The question that remains is why? On tuesday. We learned something we previously did not know about the midterm election. This past November on election day itself. The Pentagon's US cyber command staged its first real operation, it shut down the internet at a Russian troll farm as soon as the polls opened and kept it down for a couple more days. It could hardly be called a cyber attack by the US more of a prank to send a message to Moscow. It was America's way of telling Russia. There's a price to pay for messing with our elections. But without the damage of a more severe attack on November six twenty eighteen the internet was shut down at the Kremlin's internet research agency. The same troll farm that had spread this information through gullible Americans in two thousand sixteen and regularly ever since including the two thousand eighteen midterms. There has been less Russian propaganda since two thousand sixteen including during the mid terms. But when a cop kills a rapper the Russians are online to stir up. Oceans when Neo Nazis March in America, the Russians are there when a democrat launches a presidential campaign. The Russians are online trolling the November shutdown of Russian trolls came about a month. After our cyber command started texting e-mailing direct messaging Russian actors, the let them know that the US knows their real names their online handles, and that they would be wise to stay out of US affairs. The idea, of course, is to make sure 2016 never happens again from missiles messages US tension with Russia increases in the minds of everyone except a president who has praised and believes Vladimir Putin. Trump has recently stepped up his attacks on our free press is called for retribution against Saturday night. Live got the most coverage, but Trump simultaneously praised a libel lawsuit against the Washington Post and tweeted that the New York Times is quote, the true enemy of the people. And I mean, the people was in all caps. No longer just cries of fake news in their place specific attacks on specific news outlets. All this in the same week conservative supreme court Justice, Clarence Thomas, urged his court to revoke the longstanding protection of news outlets from libel lawsuits. Trump's attack on the times is a turnaround from Trump's decades long desire to get the approval of his hometown newspaper. The times publisher Mr. souls Berger says I have repeatedly told President Trump face to face. There are mounting signs. This incendiary rhetoric is encouraging threats and violence against journalists at home and abroad. One thing. Trump did not tweet about this week was the arrest of an alleged homegrown terrorist. Coast Guard Lieutenant Christopher Hasson who was found to have been harboring an arsenal. While reading up on other domestic terrorists. The Yuna bomber Virginia Tech and others, including the man who killed seventy seven people in Norway eight years ago. Trump has praised law enforcement in situations involving alleged killers from outside the country. But Trump said nothing about this case nothing and once again, no condemnation of the attempted act of terror, but this particular kind of terror doesn't help build his wall. It doesn't fit Trump's political agenda. Trump's silence on the case was heard round the country. In some cases that silence carried an ongoing message. Award an Oscar for his passionate screenplay about racism, Spike, Lee, told the audience the twenty twenty election is around the corner. Let's all mobilize. Let's be on the right side of history. Make the moral choice between love vs hate in the movie. Black klansman Lee had included Trump's failure to respond to the death of Heather higher at the hands of Neo Nazis and Charlottesville, where Trump said he observed very fine people on both sides. The next morning after the Oscars. Trump tweeted be nice of Spike Lee, rita's notes or better yet not have notes at all when doing his racist. Hit on your president. Who's president the president of his supporters? Of course, the only group about which Trump has ever cared. Ryan Zinke isn't Trump's interior secretary anymore, but he's still in some very hot water. Prosecutors have started showing evidence to a grand jury. The Zinke lied to federal investigators, including his own department's inspector general the secret grand jury investigation reportedly began set it on Zinke decision. Not to grant a petition to to native American tribes to operate a casino in Connecticut. The MGM grand wanted those casino licences instead. That's when the department of the interior's inspector general went to work. It's a case federal prosecutors likely wouldn't have brought if they didn't believe they had a solid case. Because these types of cases are very hard for prosecutors to win unless they have airtight evidence. It's trickier in cases like this to prove that a person lied knowingly and willfully as opposed to just misstating. A fact what was Zinke allegedly lying about witnesses for the grand jury who are free to talk about what went on while they were there say Zinke had been asked. If anyone had influenced his decision to say, no to the native American tribes and whether others in his department had advised him against the decision. He made. Trump has meanwhile, chosen apparent criminal to run the US Labor Department. Alex Costo was the Miami federal prosecutor who freed millionaire Jeffrey Epstein after Epstein was found to have molested dozens of young girls and running a child prostitution ring for wealthy men who like their women to be between thirteen and sixteen years of age. A judge ruled Thursday that Trump's labor secretary pick Alex Kosta violated the law by not telling the victims he'd struck a plea deal with Epstein allowing the alleged molester to escape federal charges victims rights laws require the victims. And or their families to be informed of any major developments in the case under a cost to the victims. And their parents were denied a chance to weigh in on the deal, much, less Epsteins punishment. The Justice department is still investigating Alex had Costa's possible professional misconduct, even as a cost of continues his path to the White House and the Trump cabinet. A staffer on the two thousand sixteen Trump campaign is suing the president for sexual harassment and equal pay discrimination. She says that when she first met him. He looked her up and down and said, oh beautiful. Beautiful fantastic. Alva- Johnson says it was August twenty fourth two thousand sixteen when Trump came out of an RV and she told him he was doing a great job. That's when she says he tried to kiss her square on the lips. She says it landed on the side of her mouth as she turned away. The White House has at least one witness to deny Johnson's claim Trump campaign official. Pam Bondi of Florida Johnson says she told her mother her stepfather and her boyfriend about the incident the day it happened. And all three say that is true six weeks later, the access Hollywood tape would drop where Trump says, you know, a medically attracted to beautiful I just start kissing them like a magnet just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you star they let you you can do anything. Two weeks after that Johnson consulted, a lawyer Johnson apparently had her eyes on a job as the number two. In command the US embassy in Lisbon Portugal. I've tried to let it go says Johnson, I feel guilty. And the only thing I did was show up for work one day. She is the first woman since Trump took office to accuse him of unwanted sexual advances. She is the twenty second woman to make such an accusation. Trump still however faces a lawsuit from former apprentice contestant summers Vos who says he forcibly kissed and groped her. The Trump administration. Meanwhile, continues to strip millions of dollars from Planned Parenthood which delivers healthcare and family planning services for women Friday, the Trump White House issued a new rule that could cut tens of millions of dollars from those services. So that that money can be funneled into religion-based anti-abortion healthcare groups, instead, it's a harsh blow to women, especially low income and minority women who need Planned Parenthood services, the most unless and until court stops it the new rule goes into effect in mid April. Donald Trump and the Republican party are now so much part of each other. They've practically become one on the same less. There be any Republican challengers to Trump's twenty twenty plants. The Republican National Committee has already thrown its undivided support. The Trump the vote was unanimous for a resolution calling his presidency effective quoting an Oklahoma delegate who sponsored the resolution, as you know, there's been so much belittling and that kind of thing going on Washington elites to attacking the president. And that's the focus of mine to give him support. Give him encouragement. The RNC did not vote to endorse Trump for twenty twenty leaving itself an out, but it certainly sounded like an endorsement before any Republican challengers could get their campaigns off the ground it sounded like an endorsement to Trump who tweeted his thanks to the RNC. Maryland's Larry HOGAN, a very popular Republican governor in a very democratic state was also not happy to hear about the RNC vote. He called an unprecedented and even almost like a hostage situation. Party officials were indignant quoting a spokeswoman President Trump doesn't need any assistance to protect him from primary challenges. He has unprecedented. Support any effort to challenge. President Trump and a primary is bound to go absolutely nowhere. And quote, the RNC vote came shortly after Massachusetts Governor Bill weld announced he would challenge Trump as a Republican Maryland governor, Larry HOGAN has or had been thinking about it HOGAN wants to bring back. The original republicanism not the new coq version we're seeing today. His dad was the first Republican in congress to call for the impeachment of Richard Nixon. And governor HOGAN says other Republicans of privately told him they like what he's doing and wishes. They could say what he has said about Trump, including that the president is irrational ogan also says Trump's reelection numbers. Don't look so good. And he's right. A Washington Post ABC news poll shows that only twenty eight percent of voters say they will definitely vote for Trump and twenty twenty that's fewer than one in three of us. Fifty six percent of us would definitely not vote for Trump in two thousand twenty if he's the Republican nominee well over half, the independent voters who often decide elections say they will definitely not vote for Trump. Fifty nine percent say no to Trump among independence. Trump is far more disliked then was Obama at two years in the his first term by about a fifteen point margin. And that was before Michael Cohen public testimony. And before the release of the Muller report, Trump twenty twenty officials are worried about the Blue Wave. They saw in the midterms. They're worried about the poll numbers worried about the legal shoes yet to drop and worried that their candidate will apparently wing it heading into the campaign since he has no plan as he does with so many things they might also worry that more states are passing bills that require presidential candidates to release their tax returns, if they hope to appear on those states election ballots. The only strategy we've seen emerge from Trump twenty twenty so far and from Republicans is to attack Democrats liberal positions as radical and crazy with hot button issues, including taxes healthcare, and of course, immigration and abortion Trump's accused Democrats of wanting raping murderous gangs to pour over the Mexican border. He's warned of Democrats wanting to kill unborn and newborn babies when Trump's temper tantrum shut down the government for thirty five days. He tweeted the Democrats have made clear, quote, they value illegal immigrants more than hardworking Americans. And he put most of that in all caps. Of course, the list goes on with two common threads to paint. Democrats as insane liberals and to do it with complete fabrications involved. Hoods if one democrat MS speaks which happens Republicans plan to pounce on it and paint the entire Democratic Party as having that misstated. View. And Trump has the Fox News channel ready and eager to help. Trump's twenty twenty campaign also has a lot of money but campaign and its sister committees raised over twenty one million dollars in just the first three months of two thousand eighteen just in time for the presidential election cycle that began in January as Democrats were just launching their committees. Trump's was already up and running and had just raked in another twenty one million. He has already dusted Democrats in fundraising, Elizabeth Warren. For example, started her campaign on New Year's Eve with eleven million most of the money collected by Trump at Warren and others. So far has come from small donors. Seventy five percent of Trump's donations are under two hundred bucks sent him by the red, hats and other supporters and most of the money raised by the candidates. So far will be spent on the primaries. They'll still have to raise more money for the general election, and while Trump may for now have the fundraising lead, and while his campaign war chest will be more than enough to beat any Republicans who challenge him with numbers like these. With shoes about to drop its possible. Trump cannot get reelected even with all the money in the world. North Carolina Republican Mark Harris says he will not run in the redo of a November election to decide who gets a seat in congress from his district era says he's not running due to health problems and upcoming surgery and the recovery. He's already had a couple of strokes and a septic infection. But he's also been plagued recently by scandal and exposed by his son in dramatic sworn testimony. The lies in the cover ups wants an evangelical minister, the elder Harris ultimately admitted that his campaign had engaged in fraud. And that there should be a new election that election will be in the fall of this year October probably after a primary in late spring. The elections board had already thrown out the results of the November contest between Harris and democrat, Dan McCreevy who will run again, and who because of the recent Republican scandal there will probably win the investigation into election fraud and the Harris campaign continues, and he may. Face more than just medical problems yesterday, the political operative who arranged the illegal campaign activities for Harris was indicted and faces trial. Strong women a concrete problem tourist in space and nudist on Costa in the final segment. Thank you so much for using my Amazon link at buzz, Burbank dot com for all your shopping all year round. Whether you're at home or at work, you're used to that link helps keep this newscast going and free for the listening. So please book market as your everyday shopping button. I get a little commission from Amazon for every purchase you make that way and for every Amazon prime membership purchased through me. So it really helps power this free weekly report. Just click the Amazon logo at buzz, Burbank dot com, you'll land right on your very own Amazon page bookmark that and then on your desktop browser. You'll find the Amazon logo in the upper right corner at buzzed Burbank dot com on your phone. It's just under the title buzz, Burbank. News and comment you'd rather not use myemma Zahn lengthen. Please support these free and independent reporting through the pay pal donate button there. And thank you. Chicago's next mayor will be an African American woman. We just don't know which one yet the old Chicago political machine personified in this race by William Daley was squeezed out by the two top vote-getters in Tuesday's election this week. Fifty six year old former federal prosecutor, Lori Lightfoot who's anti status quo and Toni preckwinkle who is the status quo running both the county board and the county's Democratic Party at age seventy one Chicago got its first black mayor in Harold Washington. And its first female mayor Jane Byrne now either Lightfoot or periwinkle will be the first black woman in that powerful office, the runoff election is in April may the best woman win strong women in Kansas a Republican lawmaker as withdrawn his name from an anti LGBT, Bill and apologized. He did that after his daughter wrote an open letter publicly. Shame. Naming him for being part of that legislation. She asked why her dad would quote, openly attempt a policy that elevates hate and hurts my family and friends. Her dad responded that the Bill he had co-signed was quote against our Lord's command to love our neighbors. I have asked for my name to be removed from the Bill the Kansas Republican Bill would define LGBT marriages as parody marriages and cut off money for processing paperwork for such LGBT. Couples. The daughter now praises her lawmaker dad for having the strength to do what he did perhaps setting an example for his colleagues Kansas new democratic governor is expected to veto the Bill Hilty Kate Lizzy AC became famous worldwide this week, thanks to a viral video of her encounter with the town marshal of Patagonia. Amazon a- Hilda's twelve years old budding journalist, whose father is a professional. Journalist ille- has broken stories about Bank robberies alleged, rapes and other crimes. In her self published paper the orange street news. She was following a new lead when the Marshall pulled up to her bicycle in his white Chevy Silverado to say that a nine year old girl. She's twelve shouldn't be hanging around crime scenes. He said he was concerned. She'd get hurt with a reported mountain lion in the area. She told him. She's media answered. I don't wanna hear about any of that freedom of the press stuff. And then he threatened to have her arrested and thrown into a juvenile lockup jail for a twelve year old. The Marshall also threatened. If you put my face on the internet, it's against the law in Arizona. It's not illegal the journalist got all of this on video in the end, the Marshall said he'd be getting in touch with her parents and drove away that video made Hilty Kate Lezak famous, and she will be even more. So when she becomes the subject of a new TV mystery series on apple TV, the marshalls intimidation of Hilda riled some people, but he'll de caution folks against not posting the marshalls personal information online for revenge quoting the twelve year old my focus is on protecting our first amendment rights. Go ahead of the state's first amendment coalition. One can only imagine what stories she'll be turning out once she has a driver's license. Strong girls. Become strong women. In the midst of the madness this week the democratic controlled house during a break in the Cohen hearing past the most dramatic gun law reform Bill in more than twenty years. Among other things the Bill would require federal background checks on all gun buyers. A move favored by nine out of ten Americans including gun owners, a companion Bill expands to ten days. The wait times also known as cooling off periods. The vote comes as the NRA is weakened by financial concerns and inclosing federal investigations involving Russia. This new gun control Bill will likely never be brought to a vote in the Senate at least until after the twenty twenty elections. Three more gut punches to the planet this week a chunk of our fifth largest continent is about to break off the continent is Antarctica where the icy shelf has cracked as a chunk twice the size of New York City breaks away. Scientists say the massive iceberg breakaway in the next few weeks or the next few days. This is happening in cities all over the country carefully sorted recyclables left by the curb by dutiful citizens only it'd be burned by the collectors in the past three months. According to a report in the guardian only half, the recyclables in Philadelphia are getting recycled the burning of recyclables has increased sharply since the Trump trade war that prompted China to ban US imports of recyclables, especially since China to is drowning in them up until recently China was taking about forty percent of our paper, plastic another materials. China now insists that imported recyclables be completely clean and completely sorted an ability that most cities don't have or can't afford the people who live near the incinerator in Chester PA say they're worried about the air. Their kids are now breathing the burning of plastics and other things release nitrogen oxides sulfur dioxide and tiny fragments of debris that can get into. The lungs solutions have yet to be found. The White House is set up a new panel for climate change. That will of course, include three scientists who questioned the severity of climate change and question how much mankind has to do with it. It's the Trump administration's most dramatic move yet to take on the science greenhouse gases drive global warming and the dire consequences away unless we act quickly. Greenhouse gases are mostly created by the fossil fuel industry. Oil gas and coal all darlings of the Trump administration in two thousand three the Pentagon said the climate change, quote should be elevated beyond the scientific debate to a US national security concern. The Pentagon warned the climate change could lead to war and mass immigration in pursuit of food and water. The federal advisory committee act requires that these kinds of committees such as the one just set up by the White House. It requires that these committees we made public meet in public their actions be recorded in the public record. The new White House panel is part of the Trump national Security Council. Therefore, this new group will obey. None of those rules and Trump Security Council has no comment about that. Concrete? It's everywhere when I was a kid. My dad was a municipal materials inspector making sure that the proper materials were being used in the proper amounts to make streets and bridges safe. And to make sure taxpayers we're not getting ripped off by dishonest. Contractors still I was shocked to learn this week in the guardian that if concrete were a country. It would be the third biggest producer of climate threatening carbon dioxide only the nations of China and the US produce more carbon waste than the nation of concrete and concrete is being poured at the rate of more than nineteen thousand bathtubs full every four seconds twenty four seven three sixty five. It is the second. Most used substance on the planet after water, which is also used to make concrete. These are things to consider in case, we do get around to improving the infrastructure that has crumbled in the decade since my dad did the best anybody knew how it may also be time to consider alternatives since we've come to rely on concrete to keep a sheltered from natural disasters and military attacks. It helps keep our feet dry. It is literally the foundation of modern construction near the quarries for limestone and cement in India. The dust in the air amounts to ten percent of all air pollution on top of the. Sauced from the trucks carrying those materials away. And then there's the sand also used to make concrete the mining of that sand is eroding the world's beaches at the hands of an industry, increasingly controlled by mobsters. There's much more detail on the story at the guardians website in a separate article. The paper reports alternatives are emerging including wooden skyscrapers in Vancouver. Vienna. Norway and soon Japan scientists and construction engineers are also scrambling for new and more planet friendly construction materials. In the meantime, pardon our dust. Dust and chemical filled smoke are what our first responders breathed as they looked for survivors and victims in the nine eleven attacks. It has been four years since John Stewart talked to a New York, firefighter and two other men about it on the daily show with Trevor Noah this week Stewart returned seated next to three empty chairs. One of the man has died of cancer. The other two were too ill to make the return trip to the daily show studio Stuart used the occasion to in his inimitable style. Lambaste the nation's lawmakers in both parties for still not acting to help these first responders with healthcare. This wasn't a first over the years. Stuart has been the loudest voice on Capitol Hill in defense of those first responders as the government assistance for these men and women runs out. Again, Stewart is back on the hill asking the funding made permanent for the victims and their families. Influenza is still making its annual sweep across the US. But with an unfortunate twist when the season began the flu was mild in the vaccine worked very well. But now a more severe strain of flu has appeared and it accounts for nearly half of all the new cases, quoting a CDC researcher there still a lot of flu to come in this week's recalls Eighty-six tons of Boston market frozen meals from grocers throughout the country. The company that makes the meals for Boston market says there may be bits of glass or plastic in the boneless pork that shaped like pork ribs. They're in packages dated best buy this coming December January and February don't eat them. A new radio astronomy survey has revealed some previously undiscovered galaxies three hundred thousand newly discovered galaxies. They are all displayed on a new map produced by an international team of astronomers if the truth is out there the haystack just got bigger. A little closer to home. Virgin galactic Friday sent three people to the edge of space and brought them safely down to earth. Nasa defines the edge of space as fifty miles up virgin, galactic unity made it to fifty six miles up, and they did orbit there for a bit before heading back to the earth surface on board was a first timer, including the first woman to enter space on board. A commercial vehicle Beth Moses is virgin galactic chief astronaut instructor. And she was experiencing true weightlessness for the very first time. The United Methodist Church is a divided Methodist church, and maybe headed for a split after a vote to tighten the church's ban on same sex marriage and gay clergy Methodist and Catholics are in a similar situation in this respect. They are both worldwide and laws and cultures vary from one nation to the next. It's one reason why there is no easy singular worldwide answer to the Catholic problem. And it's why there's a severe crack. Dividing Methodists Methodist on other continents are more conservative in their religious views than Methodists in the US this week the entirety of the church voted to strengthen its ban on homosexual, clergy and LGBT marriage. Conservatives have already left the episcopal church over gay rights, the Presbyterians of split Methodists may be next without a split. The Methodist church would remain the second. Biggest Protestant faith in America behind Baptists. The vast majority. Of Protestants are of other Protestant faiths. Neither Baptist nor Methodist it has been another rough week for the Catholic church. It began with the end of a Vatican meeting on sex abuse upon which the pope called for an all out battle against the abuse of minors, but made no proposals as to how that might be accomplished. That was a breath catching disappointment for victims. Who were hoping for details. The next day a close advisor to the pope cardinal, George. Pell was convicted in Australia of child sexual abuse on three choirboys. Pope Francis who had once publicly praised Pell for his honesty about child sex abuse as not yet commented on Pels conviction. It started with a health department inspection at a day spa in Jupiter, Florida. The orchids of Asia spa is touted online by some of its customers as a rub and tug and for the past eight months of state health inspector has been alerting police to what appeared to be a human trafficking operation. The inspector said she found evidence that at least some of the women employed. There were living there perhaps being kept. They're preparing their meals and sleeping on the very massage tables where their customers found relief. The women were on call around the clock with no days off more prisoners than prostitutes. Detectives pulled bags out of the dumpsters out back and found a torn up ledger credit card receipts in napkins stained with seaman a search warrant turned up. Surveillance camera video of a naked Robert Kraft, the owner of the Super Bowl champion New England Patriots video shows the seventy seven year old had gone there. At least twice experts called it. A textbook case of human trafficking with some seven. Thousand such businesses across the country documents show Robert Kraft was at the spa on the night before and the day of the AFC championship game last month. R Kelly this week turned himself into police after being indicted on sexual abuse charges, and then raised the one hundred thousand dollar bond to among other things visit Chicago's rock and roll McDonald's. Sign autographs, the fifty two year old Grammy winning singer, however is apparently about to see his party and after decades of alleged sexual abuse of scores of teenage girls. The case involving four women includes ten criminal counts for which Kelly could face up to seventy years in prison. Our Kelly's lawyer says he believes all of the women are lying R Kelly was indicted after video showing him having his way with a fourteen year old girl. Two men who accused the late Michael Jackson of sexually abusing them as kids or at the center of a new HBO documentary. That's drawn a lawsuit and a public response from the Jackson family Wade Robson met Michael Jackson at a dance contest in Australia when he was five James safe Chuck met Jackson during the filming of that, Pepsi commercial. When James was nine today. Both men are adults sharing details in the film, leaving Neverland which tells only their side of the story. But it is damning both men say they were molested by Michael told that he'd never done this with anybody else, but that he chose them because he loves them. They say he told them not to tell others because no one would understand Robson and save Chuck believed. They were two of many boys. Abused by Jackson Jackson surviving. Brothers say. His accusers are all about the money that with Michael it's always been about the money back in Chicago actor Jesse small et is facing up to three years in prison for paying too man to help him stage a fake attack. Chicago police say smell ED's motive was greater fame and higher pay for his role TV's empire that role has now been eliminated by the show's producers small it's bond was also said at one hundred thousand dollars he'll be back in court in about two weeks passing and passages in the music world include Peter Frampton, farewell, tour this summer and fall starting in Tulsa and ending in San Francisco and Peter Tork of the monkeys has died at age seventy seven from a rare cancer seven years after the death of lead singer Davy Jones at sixty six Mickey Dolan's and Mike Nasima th are the band, surviving members Dolan's and Jones were actors but nesn with and Peter Tork came into the band as musicians Nasima says torque should have been the lead guitar is not in originally considered four torch's role in the TV show was Stephen stills who executives dean was to snuggle tooth for the role. Shortly after Sunday night's Oscar show had gone off the air the man who had won best actor had gone off the stage bohemian rhapsody star Rami Malik was injured in the fall as C protected his award from damage he was treated at the scene by paramedics. But not seriously injured green book won best picture, which clearly upset the director of a more sophisticated movie about race relations black klansman when the winner was announced Spike Lee jumped from his seat and headed toward the exit at the back of the auditorium. He thought better return to his seat. But then turned his back during the acceptance speech after losing best picture again with what's considered his masterpiece film, lead cleared. I'm snake bit. He did however win for best screenplay how to train your dragon. The hidden world is the big movie in the US and Canadian theaters this week dragon opened with nearly fifty six million dollars dusting all the competition. Many of the Oscar winners are in or. We'll be back in theaters for previews location. Showtimes, and tickets just click that fandango Lincoln buzz, Burbank dot com. This time of year along the beaches of Brazil at the mouth of the Amazon river, the tide twice a day washes inland. The oceans garbage, including trash from ships all over the world. This is also how and why fishermen walking through a mangrove forest found the decomposing body of a baby humpback whale in the forest video of a whale in the middle of the forest went viral around the world people wondering how it had gotten there. And now, we know it wasn't aliens. Or any of the other theories, it was the ocean of thirteen foot tide carried the gas bloated wail ashore and pushed it inland. And now, we know. The cozy hollow school an hour. North of Laramie, Wyoming is opening this fall for its new incoming kindergarten class. The class includes one student not just for kindergarten for the whole school. The school district is spending seventy five thousand dollars to reopen shuttered school in the middle of nowhere to as required by law educate, the children, or in this case child and in the winter the road to Laremy is frequently impassable the school had to be provided. The district has another one student school for similar reasons at another seventy five grand a year. The district says it tried live streaming classes to the remote children but found that that didn't work well, especially with kindergartners. Speaking of remote places, try spending the night of the gas station on highway three oh four outside of Austin, Texas. It's now a bed and breakfast. This weathered former gas station that served as a filming location for the nineteen seventy four horror movie, Texas chainsaw massacre. There's a gas pump and the original Coca Cola machine and a van out front to replicate. The one in the movie inside four cabins available for short term rentals. There's also a restaurant where visitors can buy horror movie merchandise. No word on whether an overnight. Stay includes the sound of a chainsaw from our what is wrong with people department. A California driver this week learned the hard way, not to park in front of a fire hydrant when Anaheim firefighters had to fight an actual fire. There was only one way to get to it through. Both of a car's backseat windows there wasn't room to run the hose over under or around. And the car so firefighters went through it the driver, by the way, we'll also have to pay for towing the impound fine and a citation in addition to buying new rear windows. Firefighters later posted videos online of the hydrant the car with a smashed windows and the hose that ran through the backseat as a warning to others not to park in front of a fire hydrant. Considering the nature of the news of late. It may be wasn't the best idea this week for a nail salon owner in Ohio to name her new shop, hand jobs. The owner says she'll go to court to defend her right to call her business that in Britain, a nudist group hopes to set a Guinness world record by sending one hundred three people or more round the bumpy Grand National roller coaster track at Blackpool, pleasure beach. The existing record was set at the green scream roller coaster at adventure island in south end on the CNS six or -ticipant are asked to bring a bag to store their clothing in and towels to sit on afterward. The writers will celebrate at the waterslide at San castle waterpark reserved for the nudist for three hours who will then presumably not be sitting on towels and finally off duty police officer, Gerald Johnson, notice that the dinner crowd of the media. Era buffet in Huntsville, Alabama was getting restless diners had been standing in the crab leg line for more than ten minutes and broke into a frenzy when the food finally came out a fight broke out or brawl really with plate shattering all around. The cop says customers were using serving tongs like fencing sword buzz, Burbank. Thanks for listening for supporting this bringing us and buzz, Burbank dot com. I'll be back next Thursday with another buzz, Burbank, news and comment. Presenting presentation was brought to you by the realm network.

President Trump Trump president Trump Tower Trump Trump Tower Elijah Cummings Cohen US Cohen Exonerating Trump Trump twenty twenty denuclearize Trump congress Robert Muller Russia Muller Russia Michael Cohen FBI Moscow