20 Episode results for "Jamie Lancaster"

Visions in the Flames 2021 Part 8: ASOIAF TMG Commander Changes, Designer Chat

On The Table Gaming

20:26 min | 5 months ago

Visions in the Flames 2021 Part 8: ASOIAF TMG Commander Changes, Designer Chat

"Welcome back to the table giving podcast and this week we're going to be looking at far the miniatures game and we are joined by the song entire game designer michael channel and fabio currie the lead game developer. Thanks going back on the show guys whenever you command in that case now that i get like these unlimited wishes is that how it works. Sure i mean we. Monkey got no problem doing mass. If i recall correctly last last time we spoke there was a reference that we might get to see some some tournament here. And i can tell you that the fans or a fan was excited to hear that that was the case and so you know. Let's not let's not cut any corners here. Let's get right to the heart of it. Tormo giants main in twenty twenty one. Oh yeah in the twenty twenty one edition torment giant spain thunder fist under fish. Sorry tournament giants. Spain thunder fist aka. The war that was wished for torments still seems to be all about the charge. So that kind of commander identity is still really caring through here. And i think maybe the tormented kind of exemplify a character. That maybe hasn't had major changes. But kind of keeps that really core identity alive and still reinforces that Yeah Torment didn't really demand that many changes in because you're saying he was practically perfect in every way from the start. Exactly that beard man you know so know term now here. He's changing that he has the order. Overrun also has a furious charge. And that goes from giving him sundering on the charge to now when he them. The enemy becomes vulnerable house. Kind of illustrating the the overall changes that were seeing in the faction and a lot of ways. He seems like he's staying the same. Yeah i think that is a great example of how we can how we kept things the same basically beforehand. He already fulfilled his role in the army he was already fun and a relatively balanced This is actually more of a quality of life change where we fix lot of his wording and the abilities that did change like his Previous shattering assault which became furious charge. That's just because since the entire faction was a updated and modified in the he needed disability. More let's say it made more sense inside the faction but it's still the same theme and it's kind of does the same math wise as well. The only thing is that the token you can actually bank on it right on for a future or something like that. Yeah that's amazing. I mean he's always been about the charge and getting in there and it's great to see that as tax cards wall some of them have changed overall. They're still really keeping that theme pretty closely here. I did know that we did drop. One of his cards is has been completely reworked so now we have a rush of aggression. So that's changing now so that it actually helps you close the distance and then automatically counters rolling a six and you gain critical blo. That's huge but after the attacks complete the unit becomes vulnerable unless it's hormones unit because tournament delcare now looks like you're building and kind of a natural skill element where players can really kind of differentiate themselves as they become more experienced when they know how to play this card. Then get more out of it or less out of it depending on how they use it. That's really cool. Well of tournaments here. I think what it's actually one to show because it shows an example of refinement more than anything else. Torments identity you know. He had a strong identity. He knew what he wants to do. He's all about the charges so here it was a matter of taking a what he did keeping it and just refining it for you know the streamlining process that we did. And you'll see that a couple of things here evident with torments cards. One was as you saw shattering. Assault was replaced by furious charge. That was shattering. Assault was while it was a neat little ability It really wasn't as useful as we want it to be. So that's one of the ones that kinda got phased out a little debts or Removed it got removed get moved to other places a basically when we were doing ability evaluations if ability appeared only like once or twice in the game then we did. You know that check to see. Is this something that we really need to keep in their. If it's character ability or something flavorful to them that would be an exception. But if it was kinda generic ability and it just wasn't seen much either expanded or removed or moved into another effect here so furious charge didn't effectively do the same thing. Let's close enough to where you know shattering. Salt in them. Were kind of playing back and forth so we remove shattering result in favor of furious charge with torments cards. Here you'll see focus on one of the changes. We did detect scarves. Where you're not going to get so much. Just free stuff as you are going to be able to. Just give yourself a little bit more certainty and reinforcing the tactics you already do. So as previous regression card was just free. bonus is. that's all it gave you here. It's going to help you charge by giving you that six and give you a bonus on top critical blo but because of those two powerful effects you do have a negative coming on here and then you'll see that we replaced rallying strikes here with devastating impact to again focus. More here on torn wants to do which is getting charged charges energizes good with his overrun ability with the natural. You know things that you're wanting me doing charge in there and so there's a lot more inter- commanders synergy with them. I like how you know. Sort of noticing. We'll get to this in a little bit. That some of them were like selfish. Commanders where the cards kickers or benefit them so on his devastating impact. It's giving up volume token which he can do. But now it's like gives you more incentive to play on other units so it's not like always being played on him although it's still really good to play on him in itself and so sorta speaking of these like selfish commanders. Then let's talk about Jamie lancaster the king slayer so how did his main card change from his previous edition. So jamie actually received kind of an entire overhaul because jamie was one the very first commanders that we ever designed and he didn't really have too much love. Focus on what he did. He kind of did a lot of things but he didn't even do any of those very well and he didn't really fall into that. Jack of all trades category. Because that at least gives you some level of flexibility. Jamie just kinda did stuff. But it wasn't even that dan great. So what we did with him is he got a rework. To basically become the rockstar of the battlefield the the boisterous king slayer himself. Yona ferris infamous the golden lion. He is the star of the battlefield. So he's an example of a commander that he buffs his own unit. He gives an agile against an counterattack. So if you come after him he is going to punish you for an all of his cards are focused around me me me look how great i am. Now that has a bit of a side effect where if his unit does die go down. That can be really crippling. Blow your army. That's actually you'll see that built into a tax hardware of one of the things we didn't want to have this half dead cards that like you don't wanna play because there's nothing worse than having a feeling. Oh it's i turn drew some cards. That i can't use or late game in these are not gonna be useful for me. We won't cards to be useful in a bunch of situations so jamie's here because they are all directly tied to him. They have a secondary effect. Where should he gets slain. You can just kind of pitch them and draw cards. So you're never gonna have a situation where you're all started is and then you're going to draw three cards up to play any of them because that's a little too punishing yup. It's good to keynote as well. That you don't he doesn't need to be dead or destroyed for you to play these cards with their Draw drawcard effect with recycling effect. And this can still fit the medically because he is jamie lancaster. He's just just decided he wanted to put the lancaster agenda ahead of his own. Which is feasible. so it's just a reminder so people don't think that he has to be dead for you to recycle the card so he just got enough like battlefield experience knowledge and know-how that he can like adapt on the fly if necessary exactly but at the same time his car soup or good right because you can only pitch them on them or on him or his bubble there. So i don't see why players would do that but if if they do see like that. The card won't be effective for them. It's still an option that's awesome so you're not getting locked out of the cards anymore. If that happens especially with the card hand size protections now being capped at five you always have. You always have an option in your hand right. you're not getting completed. Locked out if he somehow got a handful just of of king slayer cards and he's not an opposition or he can't do what you want. You got other things you can do so that. That's pretty cool. Yeah most definitely. I feel like we have an update like theme song or something. Now he's gonna get a lot more table play just being the rockstar. I mean in these situations. I always recommend just live to win and then i suppose we can talk about these nights watch here with. Gr mormon to the nine hundred and ninety seventh lord commander and we see him gaining dauntless and embolden so kind of inspiring. The night's watch who already have pretty decent morale stats like even further. And that's kind of interesting choice because it seems as though vow mechanics are tied off of the morale test now. Is that accurate. Not really there are some that trigger off of that but jor here is an example of a morale base commander. Joy is kind of an in between because he what he previously did. He did very well but we revamped the way the mechanics work so therefore he had to change so while previously he had a cool identity of like okay. I'm going to really push on these vows. And i'm gonna make my unit as this big juggernauts because we did. Those changes to the bow mechanics removed him from being zone. Dependence has talked about previously then his mechanics just didn't work with the transition so we kept his identity. We just had. The changes mechanics are out. Yeah and a little bit more. On that i'd say that now like you said The nightwatch already have a pretty decent morale and you might think well would. He actually works as a failsafe right. He ease very good. Feel save commander of especially if you're against a matchup where your opponent is trying to have that Morale damage through you rights. If you're playing. Lancaster lancasters were bolton's. Jor is very interesting choice At the same time also of the fact that he does benefit morale in in general also helps his tactics cards which are conditioned on out tests to activate. Yeah he he works really well now and like michael said. He wasn't a revamped because he wasn't working before it's just because he wouldn't work now was so cool because with emboldened you're gonna have some really good morale but that's gonna really help get your tactics cards out there and yet once again. There's room for that. Skillful play or to be skillfully outplayed. If he's getting off on his own. You could still use a panic base list now to kind of deny certain cards being played because you may be really really gonna double down and get rid of that unit's morale because maybe that extra boost from your isn't ron. Because he's too far away So it seems like there's a lot of other cool at moving pieces to think about now with this with this commander and this is fun to see how the games like a new ways and maybe not always new ways but familiar ways but with a kind of different interplay. I'm kind of like kind of getting in like re learning how to play commanders and like a kind of experiencing the game with like fresh eyes will so one of the big focuses of this was as we've said before the change wasn't done for the sake of change you know we do things to balance purposes but we also wanted to be your fun experience at one of the primary. Things that i was to see for song was your commander choice. Matters said that since day one rulebook points doubt every panel. I've done everything since. Then your commander matters and that should define not just. Because i'm playing this character because i love them because of a play style you know you don't wanna have you can have an entire section of lancaster commanders. They all played the same then. It's just kind of discouraging. You know if a didn't play different than taiwan didn't play different than greg. that'd be something really wrong. Each commander should be bringing something to your army that you can't find anywhere else in your faction or you know has to be a reason why you're bringing and being able to switch out your commander. This is one of the goals that we had was. You've been playing the exact same army setup. Same units same issues which commander and all of a sudden a world of different possibilities opened up to you. That's always the vision bowl and you know we took this past to really make a refinement on that to make sure that was the case you know. So if you're playing lanta service or bureau plane free folk. I guess if you want to for some reason actually i will use focus example here me bad example. I can tell if you wanna kill an enemy kill free folk free folk because they are set up as difference. Basically tribes banded together under the influence of one king beyond the wall. They have a drastically different play styles. Yeah i'm not gonna say more than any other faction but they have a big diversity of what they do because they have they have to be these big. You know larger than life curry's charismatic characters. To be leading these bands to harm does not get along rattle shirts. They don't play the same manse. Is you know basically playing the the father that's coming in and making sure the kids don't kill each other you know meanwhile hormones over here just drunkenly charging anything. It's like the world's biggest dysfunctional family reunion. But you have these different personalities. They're these different archetypes. And no that's the idea of commanders is at i wanna play this faction because i like them and then i like this place style. Is there a commander in year that allows me to do that or in some situations you know. I didn't even know. I wanted to play like this. Like let's go to grade choice. You know you can play them as a straight up raiders and everything and take the carry on a all the sudden you put your on as the charge of your army and now all of a sudden you're playing mind games. Your opponents and that was drastically different than when i was playing victory on now charging things making them dead Interesting trae to attack. Yes i mean. And that's i mean that's one of the fun things in this game though right. Is that it the commander. Do matter. And i know you are harp on that. But like that's part of the layers of it. And i think that's what keeps you coming back because you can have a fan favorite character but there's plenty of other ones to explore and every time you play by heroes boxing. Suddenly you've got you know hours of additional ways to configure your army Kinda the joy the game. Well this is amazing. So here's the question. That's what we have in store then for future visions here. We've seen commanders. You've talked about attachments. nc us what we have down the line okay. so we've already addressed. I think all the elements in the game Explain their thought process and given some examples right. but we haven't really deep dived into any specific factions. Or anything like that. So for the future you guys can probably expect now. Some faction deep dives. I'd say awesome man. That'd be exciting. And so of get of a better picture of what things are gonna look like and shake up for these different factions and later today. Then you're going to be doing a full of you listening on the same day. This release later today. He hasn't been doing a livestream. Qna on facebook on the official a song of ice and fire and cumani facebook page. And so you know you're going to be fielding questions from the community and Is that we might see kind of going forward more regularly as well. I know you did one. You know maybe it was last month not too long ago. It's pretty cool to get the chance to to have everyone interact with you in that sort of capacity. Yeah we want to do more and more of these not just to be transparent but also to be engaged right. We loved the last one. We like the questions that people are asking and it was really fun. So why not do more of these right. We batter at one point. You know i feel like maybe. You're the undisputed champion here. Are you getting a crown or a belt and other going to be future battery reports. You're going to challenge other people at sima throwing down. How's this work. A growing out of braided telling haertel. And you're gonna like cow drago. I actually cut my hair on quarantine. Unfortunately bud listen. I say like if you win one for public record. Then you'd better not play anymore hyper v. okay. I mean i i will state that like that is one of the mantras. You win one game. Then you retire undefeated unchallenged. But i have to say that fabrio here was apparently so worried about a potential rematch. Said not only did he locked me out of his country but he locked me out of my own country for the last thirteen months at the seat that unlimited power there. You're calling up the foreign governments being like. Hey let's anita favor do you know. Who do you know who. I had called walter frame. And and that's hilarious a well. You guys are coming by. This is a quick one. The commanders look great out really excited these faction deep dives. I think actually at one point we kinda got off track a few a few years ago. We never really got to talk about a lot of great joy stuff that came out so in the future. Maybe we can even dig through some of that. I know people are really excited. And that's going to be great when those get out and people are are rating the shores of westborough. So we're looking forward eagerly awaiting chase. Don't don't do it. Wow did you since a storm coming. Okay so you know how you know at the very start of this. I made of a monkey. Pox paerson rights. Let's go ahead. You can't renounce to wish gas all right. So let's let's speak to you know your listeners out there since i do like the idea of doing some faction deep dives so i suppose we'll ask the listeners out there what action they would like to see covered. I now of course chase. We don't wanna play favorites here so since we choose last tournament i suppose free fokker off the table for that. One for free folk are off the table. That's very off brand. That's like might be monica. My evil alter my alter ego. That has like a beard as a thin mustache or something. So i think it's fair. I did get some messages. I love you guys and thank you for your messages. About my choice of last last episode picking tournament people had lots to say i always appreciate feedback and yeah we'll put put this out in the communities hands this time so when i post this episode in the facebook group go into the comments drop some messages there let us know which faction do you think should be the one that deep dive next. We'll be lurking. They're always watching. Thanks for coming on and forever listening in the meantime ministers on the table. Yes off the table. Alter-ego alter-egos actually a skeleton named bone.

michael channel fabio currie Tormo giants jamie Jamie lancaster spain dan great Yona ferris jamie lancaster jor Jor giants army Jamie Jack bolton Lancaster Joy lancaster ron
384: The Roommate Switch

If I Were You

51:26 min | 2 years ago

384: The Roommate Switch

"This is a head gum podcast. Thank you to squarespace, for sponsoring this episode of our show. Jake spring has sprung summers around the corner. There's no better time to turn. Your cool idea into a new website. Don't I know it? You have so many websites, you put your wedding website on squarespace. Put my wedding website. All my family businesses on square right businesses. You have powerful ecommerce, functionality and squarespace. It lets you sell anything plus twenty four seven award-winning customer support. You can even buy domain name straight up dot coms through squarespace comes that's right. What dot com? Would you say people can buy today through squarespace? Okay dot com with five wise. Oh, hey, why why why why, why wouldn't you buy that? It's really interesting because mine is a very similar gibberish looking oath. The domain name really x o x x x dot com is available. That is similar in. Yeah. So if you wanna buy okay with five wise or x o x x x dot com or anything else that you can go to squarespace dot com slash if I were you for free trial. And when you're ready to launch the offer code if I were you to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain ice. The prices are low, and if you go to squarespace dot com slash if I were you and use our offer code, if I were you, you can even save an additional ten percent off. What's wrong with that? Nothing think it dream. It make it with squarespace. Shit. Yeah. I could roll face, and rage, face suck face and fuck face to that song. Let's get started. Welcome to another sewed by we're I'm your host on juice with on my host your bloom in Shia. No, no. What do you mean you could fuck face to that song? What is that? I mean if I was like rolling on. MD M A, Molly laced with the little speed and everything felt good. Yeah. And I was sucking face fucking base, with some sort of, like I guess, I guess fucking face would be like a sixty nine position where two individuals are fucking each other's faces. And then what does that have to do with the song, we'll just it would be a nice background to me, sucking face fucking face? Okay. So the song being on in the background is. If feels like it's not doing much. It's mostly the drugs that you're on. It's no. I mean, the song does a lot. I really think this I wouldn't say this doesn't do a lot. I think this really does. Yeah. What about the song? But no drugs are you still fucking face? No. I'm I'm limp lasted scared and lonely. It. In a corner waiting for the drugs to hit who the hell sold me. This fake. Molly. All right. What about real Molly? But no song. What's going on there, real Molly? No song. I am rolling face raging sucking and fucking face. Yes. That's what my point is my point. Is it seems like the song? But it's not as nice consequential. The it's consequently will. Yeah. It seems like the drugs are doing ninety nine percent of the work, and you're saying, I mean, do you enjoy enjoy a cheeseburger with, with a side salad? Yes, you do. But I think you enjoy it more with some really well seasoned Cajun fries outlets Cajun fries are kind of may be the goat, French fries. Butts tweet it. You think so? Yeah. That's a hot Tate. All right. Okay. I guess, I'll tweet it. I haven't. Heated. Four years. But I think maybe now this time you're just banned. You're just banned for, for drafting the Cajun fries thing. Hello. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still here. It didn't hang up on you. I just see your Twitter, your, your accounts been locked. Oh, it's yes. It's locked, I guess, you re tweeting bunch of h hate crime shit. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. So whenever the molly's not coursing through my vein on sort of like. Like a troll influence or. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. You should say, right? We didn't even say who that song was by. Oh damn. It's by Adam Dallin, which is a rework of an original song, called letters, which is on his album cowboy music, which is on Spotify, apple music, and even Deesor. Do you think deserves a joker? It's an actual website with albums on it. Got to be both. The album is called cowboy music, and it's on Spotify. Apple music, the very least. And if Deesor exists, and it's there to dope, this is the second time somebody made a cover of their own muzak. They're starting to get a little too original for my liking like our fans are talented. And that's nice, right? But don't like making covers of original shit. Like I hate to be overshadow. I still wanna hear the songs that me personally likes without having to here. Here new music discover new things basically, it's good to have a song about us. Yes for free to introduce our show. Nice to have sure, but I'd hate it to I'd hate for it to come at the expense of me looking like less of a musician, 'cause I can't do it that way. Right. I can't do it to that. And extent there's a world where someday, somebody's fame and talent overshadows us. Yes. That would be the worst case center. That's exactly right. I wasn't able to figure out how to say. Yeah, I don't want to be not as talented as wires right to be diminished in stature, and to be held in a lesser regard. In comparison visa, the more talented musician would make us would be a negative being be bad to have. I think this is the that's the easiest that's the clearest way to explain it. Right. And I don't think that's like making us look smaller petty. I think it's basically it's just let me take another stab at it go away. We talk is. So we talk the best and to have another thing, like, for example, to have it be music, or to have sung of it as not like as good as we can talk. So to have it be better than me is not good to me. Or you if that makes sense. Yeah, no that does so that tracks for me. Maybe I can just put it in layman's terms bed, and then yeah. Then we really we really have to go. But yet tick step, but essentially on the on on the pod. Yes, where we'll. Me and me. And right you partners and we'll have a chat chatting. Yeah. Is nice to, to be good gay here. Here. Be good. Yes, that's true. But also, what am I trying to say here in additional early? So let me take it from there. So additionally in additionally when a music is sent and played on this yet in between a check and I hear when a museum sentence sent to chat. What a music is and sent to chat. Okay. I. Cook could coal corn. I can I can't can you help me. I take it from you. So music is sent the corn gang. Yes. Okay. I think we got. I think we had it before. Yeah, that one grind to complete halt. Yeah. That one that one's stonewalled us to the point. No more words or even being said at a certain point grunting noise. Yes. But obviously I think the overall sentiment is clear the gist. Yeah, cool. All right. Let's, let's try to answer some questions. Let's try to get out. Yeah. That's a good idea. We've got some good ones here. We got one about prom. Of course proms coming up for some schools. We got one about ditching my roommate MU. We got one about making an ex-boyfriend best friend, why don't we start there because that one doesn't ring very true to me. It's kind of interesting. I kind of like have you thought about doing this ever like a menu? Yeah. Like, like a table of contents for the podcast, pardon the interruption styles. So people know it's coming up right now, we could we can try that it's kind of fun? So we got a game of thrones question of prom night question, an ex-boyfriend question in a roommate question, which will start with we need a lady's name. Oh, let's I'm going on a little vaca- today. With a friend named Ramey. Let's call this person Ramey. Oh, she would love that. She'll never hear the twenty three year old lady from Idaho, and I'm having some issues. This is actually a good way to see if any of your friends or gills friends, listen to the podcast. So don't tell anybody about this, and we'll see if it gets back to Ramey. Let's idea and then in three weeks, you can start accusing people. You listen to the show where we listen to the show in four weeks. I'll get a I don't think you listen to the show. He'd never heard about the question with your fucking name on it. Everyone should have told you that maybe I haven't gotten to it, it was three weeks ago. Actually, this is you shoving her husband. She's like I listened to the first ten minutes, and it was unlistenable you're, you're making grunting noises at one point. You full on forgot words. That's fair. Did you like the music I wrote that song for you? Ray. He writes, I'm a twenty three year old lady from Idaho, and I'm having some issues forming a relationship with my ex boyfriend. I know it's cliche to tell someone that you want to remain friends after break-up, but I did just that. And what does this diva do he removes me from all social media? We dated on an offer three years, and it was a messy relationship. However, I was trying to do the mature thing by making it an amicus break-up, because we have a lot of mutual friends, and I may see him in social situations. I've been giving him space for about two months since he basically blocked me on all platform, but I'm still hoping there's a chance we can end things on a good note, should I text them and try to remedy the situation or just let things be it really irks me to think that he might hate me because we were basically BFF's at one point. So is there any possibility of that happening again, or at least being friendly acquaintances, any advices appreciated PS air, you can apply this to your past relationships with other chipmunks of it helps yet don't really know about the mating habits of chipmunks, but I couldn't answer from the. Human perspective. And then maybe you can take it on the woodland creatures much about anything. What do you think much about shit? I'll we'll do the human one. Okay. Well, why don't I take the lead since you're chipmunk, and I'm a person? Yeah. You can weigh in as much because I know you live among humans, which is neat. But I just mean like if you wanted to wake in on any of the Alana. Yeah. The chipmunk angle, I think that could be interesting for our listeners, I won't be able to that intelligently, but continue with the human stuff and then I'll join. Right. Lot of you. Yeah, you can close the loop on the human stuff, and then I think it'd be cool to do a deep dive on ship. So all right. Let's say you're, you're too. That's what I think. Okay. So. This is I just don't think it's important to be friends with Xs, but is it important? I don't think it's in poor taste in poor taste force. It it's hor taste of four stays. Yeah. You're like I think the best you can be is open to a friendship with an ex you can't be like, I think it's important that we stay friends because that that's puts on a little like the other person has to be down with the two breakup are hard. So like this guy blocking you that, that says to me that. That he's not ready to be friends at all. Like maybe the break up was harder on him. He doesn't wanna friendship. Yeah, it's too hard. I think the most truthful part of this emails when she says it really irks me to think that he might hate me. That's the whole point of it. That's the crux of it right there. If you think he's blocking you, then your word use mocking you. Oh, and he actually might be. I don't think he's mock blocking isn't market. What is blocking blocking is? Flocking. Interesting. It's not really flocking block, but it's not so blocking is not shocking, and it is not mocking blocking is excuse me, one second, just pulling up ramming, dictionary dot com. Yeah. It's not knocking. It's not cocking. That's obviously not what it is. I wouldn't say that it's cocking hawk blocking. Oh, it's locking blocking his lock. That's good. This guy's he's locking in his like his own self worth. And like he's doing what he needs just lock it in lock it up. You're, you're out because he's got a heel and your like you being around isn't letting him do that blocking his locking. But it's not mocking now. Yeah, he doesn't necessarily mock you, but I'm saying he might just might not like you that much. But that's okay too. You don't have to worry about that. This person is you know, no longer in a relationship with you. And it sounds like it was a messy relationship because you described it as such. So he might need more than two months to get over. It also think blocking isn't necessarily like I hate this person blocking is more like I need to get over this person to do that. I need space. I don't think that it's like it, you don't have to be irked that he hates you, if anything you could feel kinda confident that it, you're so hard to get over. That's nice. What about this rule of thumb for every year? You've been in a relationship, it takes one month to get over. So this is a three year affair. And it'll take him three. To get over. Yeah. But I mean, I've had like breakup that weighed on me and I got over them and it's not like then I wanted to be friends with the person again, that's just not how like everyone is wired. So you got to you got to respect people's wire app, it just makes it a little more complicated, because they're all in the same friend group and she doesn't want to be like, hey, this person going to be there because then he's going to be well, the, the friend group is ruined. The dynamic is destroyed. Things will never be the same there. But that's a risk right hook when dating a friend in the grew. And what is it like in the forest, it's living amongst the chipmunks as it were. Curious because we said, we'd tackle the human thing, and then you would I chipmunk I mean, personally, I don't know, but I'm on Wikipedia, and it says, I guess, chipmunks aren't necessarily monogamy, monogamous animals. A woman can have up to ten partners at a time. And there's no real like. One on one relationships in the forest not that, I know. But I'm doing research, as a human like you could you could easily done this research. I mean it it's coming from personal experience. No totally. Well, I mean for you growing up as in your little tree. Did you have lots of other chipmunk girlfriends and stuff? Do they have other my boyfriend's because I know you read from Wikipedia. But now I'm just wondering for personal experiment. Experience as you grew up it. I did have a chipmunk girlfriend, but I wasn't like I wasn't a chipmunk like I don't know how okay let's go onto the next question. Then. I had to fucking I'd one friend one girlfriend, those chipmunk that doesn't mean that I'm chipmunk. No. And what were your parents? My parents were one was, you know, a regular irregular guy at debt, a normal guy. Dad, you said a guy, but, like was it a human person or person? Okay, it was a chipmunk man. Anna whites. It was your chipmunk man. Dad guys wife chipmunk. Yeah. Yes. Awesome. In awesome. Kreis. All right. I feel like I'm being put on trial here. You're not being lambasted. All right. Actually, let's talk about another hallmark moment of every childhood, or I should say, teenagehood, the prom. Oh, the prominent, we'll call this man. Who's another do that? You're going on vacation with Chris, Chris rights longtime listener. First time baller? And I'm I've got a bit of a hard one for your voice to wrap your head around eighteen year. Old dude who for religious reasons has never masturbated or had sex what you could probably just say, never masturbated. We can assume the same. What is? Is it a religion things that they thou shall not frigging cream your gene? I can't even jerk my Gerke. Yeah. I think it's like wasting seed. Anyway. He continues everything has been going great. But as I prepare for my senior prom, my boys have been razzing. My ass about the upcoming event are promised known for the grinding and sexy dancing. That takes place in my friends told me that they think my lack of penile stimulation will cause me to bust, a nut during the dance days a realistic fear. What can I do to stop myself from soiling the front of my trousers while my dime, peas date goes down to town on a dance floor? I could really use some advice before I sees my cheese in the middle of a school, gymnasium. Yeah. That's okay. Well, I feel imagine five years of pent up, puberty being rubbed up against by your prom, date, will I just feel like it. Most doesn't even matter if you masturbate have sex, and if you don't like when you're eighteen grinding it prom, like you're the hormones are fire in anyway, a maximum. So at the very, least I would say that, like you're, you're on par with everybody else. I mean, maybe maybe the fact that you have masturbated or had sex yet. Like you've been able to restrain yourself for God and country. Maybe that means that you have lower sex drive. So you'll actually be a little safer. Oh, so it hasn't been building up. It's actually been diminishing. Yeah. Maybe you're rigging doesn't work what? You'll Jesus free. I feel like if your brain really wanted to exp- make you explode, it would have done it in a wet dream. Yeah. Maybe it has maybe like, is that like a little loophole for religious kids. Yeah, that's the evolutionary purpose of wet dreams. Is that if you can't masturbate when your sleep your brain says you eighty it, I'll take care of you, and you'll your God will be none, the wiser cuts not paying attention while you're a sleep. It wasn't me. It was my brain. I swear I swear it mama outside the pearly gates. You know, your seed actually spilled it spilled. You didn't touch it, but you had a bad dream. Don't pretend like you're not up. You're jerking at Saint Peter. I mean, why are these gates so pearly? Yeah, you gotta go to you have to go to hell now with all of the, the rapists and murderers. Because you had a wet dream. Yeah. Imagine how many people have pent-up Boehner's and heaven, if it's filled with people who've never masturbated. What a what a boring place that would be. I only want to hang out with other people's that boss. They're nuts. What about an accidental orgasm? So he he's still getting off scot-free, but it's not necessarily like a wet dream. You mean what do you mean accidental orgasm? Like if you. Rubbed up against something in a seemingly innocuous way like if you found yourself in a really tight hallway, the hallway was so tight that it's a flesh lay. So you constructors small little house fill to the broom with flesh lights that sort of today you from walking or talking much like, and you find yourself in a place that you almost have to masturbate to get out. Oh, yeah. Like a life or death situation where like a hot escape room. Yeah. That's kind of interesting because then like God can't be mad at that like because you know there's there's got to be like a commandment that's that's higher than the Jisr thing like the lesser of two evils. Like, what was that? What was it? What was that ace up fable about the kid that fell down the well, and he had to like, jerk off so much study actually like started floating and he can swim to the I remember that fable that must have been something that your parents read to you. Yes. Yeah. Come to think of it was in my dad's handwriting interesting. Yeah, it was like this, this parable of sorts this, this. Story with an interesting message about I forget what the point of the tail was, but it seemed to involve enough come to fill a well that was the upshot moral of the story is that you can always fill a well with spun. Yeah. So this kid can do something like that. Like find himself in a situation where he, you know, has two seemingly need to orgasm or force themselves to masturbate. But if that doesn't happen, I don't know, maybe two pairs of underwear. Oh, yeah. You could always do something like that. Maybe where like, yeah. No two pairs of underwear that should probably work. Do you remember how hot dances were? Oh, yeah. It's also funny that like as you get older. The Boehner and the grinding like is the point. Like when you're when I was younger, I was like, okay, I can't get hard because people will notice when there grinding with me. Yeah. And then as you get older. That isn't that like why people do it in that light denim? Jeans are so hard because if we were all still wearing suits on a dance floor everybody's would have a little tent. Pop. Your denim jeans are hard because they're caked with spun from a grinding. Yeah. Additionally, so, so, it's, it's hard washed denim, but also dried seem. Yeah, usually have really really tight hallways in your house where you're constantly, putting your deck, right? I live in a lush light museum of sorts the size of a dull house that I can't stink more than just my legs into there's also a well outside. That is just over flowing with your seat. I don't know. I couldn't just pissed myself out. Anyway, that's a story for another day. Two pairs of underwear. I guess I like that. That's a practical solution. All right. Let's take a break. We'll come back answer. Some more cues after this. Thank you to pushy for sponsoring this show, a right. We even have a touchy in the office before we were advertising Tichy. So, you know, we like it. Yeah, that's true. Wiping your but with dry toilet paper. Doesn't make sense. If you got shit on any part of your body, you wouldn't just wipe it off. You would wash it off. Yeah. I would do that. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. There till she sprays directly into your bum removes the poop completely so you aren't sitting and bacteria that leads to nasty things like hemorrhoids, yeast, infections, UTI's, itchy asshole skidmarks at cetera. I don't like any of those things, and it won't clog your toilet. All you gotta do is go to Hello, Toshiba dot com and get ten percents off your order with promo code, if I were you took start at sixty nine dollars. Very and you can get ten percent off. If you Hello, tissue dot com and use promo code if I were you all one word perfect. I have a day at work. I have a day at home. Can't recommend it highly enough. Sure. Do it's the better way to poop, the better. This is why releasing to Europe people, there's days all over the place. Do your part get a day? Get it to she, it's Hello, tissue dot com, and then promo code. If I were you. Thanks to. She. And we're back Jake do you have any? Oh, it's. Yes, I do. Let me ask you a question, bub. Do you smile at yourself in the mirror? I don't you do not scowl, and I cry. And I wonder why was this interesting development for me. So a few I guess it was maybe a few weeks ago. I was like, using like a little Jade roller which I think we've talked about on the show, we talked about a little tone that you roll on your face. Yes. I was using that, and I was looking in the mirror and Jill was filming the not like, you know, unbeknownst act handed. And when I finished I sort of smirked at myself in the mirror and. Like she thought it was really funny and then I talked to my sister, and she was like these mile at yourself in the mirror, and I was like, oh, yeah. I guess I do like that me doing that smirk was like something I do all the time. And I just figured everybody did. And but my sister was like I like I do that, too. And then I asked Jill, if she did it. And she was like, no. And now I just asked you, and you said, no, so I didn't even know that people didn't smile at themselves in the mirror. That's how natural it is to me. Furthermore, I think it makes you have a more positive outlook on your day, if you smile, it yourself, if you treat yourself with a friendly attitude like a daily affirmation positive affirmation. Yeah. And then I now that I'd like thought about, and I started noticing I like I cheer myself up in the mirror all the time. What do you like Visu? Really or using words like sometimes I'll just make a silly face it myself. Sometimes I'll I always I always give myself when I smile. I've caught you playing peekaboo with you. Yeah. We'll MIR me is just a he's a real wackadoo as clown. I love him. He always teases me and makes me laugh. You'll dangle keys in front of them. When mirror, her wits plays peek a boo. I don't know where he goes for a beat. And, and then when he comes back, what he's peeks out from behind the hands. And I see smiling face I say, oh, you've got me again. I thought you had disappeared. Yeah. So he's always making cute faces at me smiling playing games with me and it makes me happy to be there with him. And when he's gone, and my dad was never around growing up, and I didn't need it because beer me sort of take over for my father. Mir means the best me. Yeah. So that's my that's my advice. Everyone should smile at themselves in the MIR treat treat themselves with a little bit of positivity. Enjoy inject some, some fun nice times into your day. Smiles. I think that everybody has a face. They make when they look in the mirror, like I, I do the same face every time I look in the mirror, and then friends family loved ones all have like a certain face that they make. And it's like the face that they're like, either inspecting to see their like biggest insecurity or like looking to hide their insecurity, or doing a face that they think they look best in. Right. I do that, too. But every time before I leave a you myself smile. What's your what's your face that you make? I don't know it's hard to describe it just face. I guess I'd have to just take a picture. I used to look over my glasses Banat on glasses anymore. But I still like keep my chin down and look. Oh, yeah, I know exactly there's videos of you doing this. That's your face. Yeah. Gills also recorded me doing it. Who did gills also recorded me looking in the mirror? She's doing some sort of like voyeuristic expose visual art and shit. Right. It's invasive total. Inveighs. I didn't even know that. She had come out to LA. It's actually called Jacob mirror. Oh, yeah. So in a way it's kind of interesting. Yeah. She's starting patriotic. Speaking of patriot Jeff Rubin was on our patriots this week. We're talking about old videos that we made together that highly recommend. Yeah. That's a. That was a good one. It was I it was so interesting to watch Catan, which is like a video that you forget about because we did it during the first college humor all nighter. So it was like all those videos are blur, anyway. And it was also like ten years ago. That. And the other video that we watched, which is like, one of our oldest video made me crack up the party plan me videos, so funny. Yeah. You know, it's something I noticed in that video that we didn't notice in the patriots watch commentary. Tell me when I was talking about fucking interns, and everyone goes, you can't fuck the interns. Dan, says you can't buck but fuck the inter. Oh, yeah. Let's like very subtle, and I like triggered when I was watching the video of commenting on, like, oh, I think he's saying, but fucking but I didn't remember that during the actual taping of the commentary that's funny. I, I remembered him doing that. I thought it was good. You can't fuck the interns. Which is true, regular fucking five. All right back to the questions back to the answers, this guy has a question about game of thrones which I thought we should revisit now that the show's over, and you're such a big fan was, we'll call this guy, Jamie Lancaster, because that's a character that I remember from the eleven I've seen great. I'm having a soul crushing issue here rights Jamie to read game of thrones or not. It's been seen and heard that Jake dived into the series. And I'm wondering if having watched the show will be like rewatching the show with just more depth. Sorry. This reading will be like re- watching the show with more depth into the characters or will bring to light new storylines twists. I could I wish I could come to you with the dead poor dad or a shitty slutty wife. But unfortunately, this is the drama plugging my existence. Love Jamie, Lancaster virtually what you think of the last season where you as down on everybody on my Twitter feed. Yes, I hated it as much. More as everybody else. I'm the dude that started the petition. Your finger was hovering over whether it should be racing funds for Alabama abortion, or getting people to rewrite the last season. Game of thrones. And you said, fuck it. I gotta trust my gut. Yeah. You know what I can be mad about both things I donated and I'm pissed about game of thrones. Okay. But who'd you donate more money to oh, donated a thousand dollars for them to reshoot starting from the end of season six. Wow. Oh, so people didn't even like season. Seven I thought all this stuff was just about season eight, I think season seven is like, where it started to diverge, and I feel like season. Seven being kind of bad. Like just shows how much trust. And by all of the fans had because like when dumb shit happened, where like, it's okay. They have a plan like this has to happen quickly here because like season, it's going to be awesome. Right. You gave him the benefit of the doubt sixth grade seasons. And then a seven that could have gone either way. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Every season a book, like how many books have there been there's been five books? Okay. I think there's five, and then how many more books he's? There was only be one final book. But apparently he is doing to books now. He's splitting that went up into two books, the winds of winter and a song of spring or something like that got it, and it will it follow the savings story as the show. But just do it better. Or will? He be like, nah fuck, that brand is not really. I've heard different things one thing that I've heard is that, that like that George Martin did intend to have brand sitting on the throne at the end which I like I do think is fine. I'm not gonna say that branch shouldn't be on the throne. I just think the way they got there is hand handed and sloppy and incredibly dumb. Okay. So I imagine since there's not really a time line for George arm Martin hill, and the books are already so dense like they slashed so much out of them for the TV show. I think that the books will stay good. I would be I guess I I'm definitely going to still read the books. I would also recommend reading the books to anybody who loved the show still did. It retroactively ruin the books for you how bad this TV was. Are you treating it like this weird fan fiction experiment, and the actual show ended in seasons six it came close to retroactively ruining the show for me? Like I'm not sure I can. I'm so mad at this season that I don't think I can go back and just like watch episodes of the show. Like I was doing leading up to the season. 'cause I was so excited, I would just like watch a random episode. It'd be like, oh, I can't wait. For a while. I feel like it's that bad break-up thing. So I need like. I need. What is it? Eight months off one month for every year was a bad relationship. Yeah. So then I'll be we can be friends again. Maybe in like a year, so I can watch an episode. I don't think I'll ever be able to watch an episode from this season. Do you think the show would have been just as bad? If the books had already existed are with the books helping that much, I think that the I think that it wasn't necessarily about, like, the, the books and the source material material was really like just bad writing and not enough time like the way died is kind of cool, too. But the fact that she, like didn't have any screen time or like make any last ditch effort or like I don't know. She just didn't do anything like cool this season. So I think that. Yeah, I don't know. I, I guess I think that the I don't think this showed needed the books to, to figure out the plot points, but it needed more episodes, more screen time for it to do everything. Well, common complaint was that everything was rushed yet. And I think it was it was so like it was so rushed that, like it wasn't like things had to have they straight up cut so much out. Like the fact that John stabs generis and then it just cuts and it's six weeks later. And he's a prisoner makes truly no sense. Two minutes before that is slitting the throats of like soldiers who surrendered because they were once loyal to sir c. And then a guys stabs their Queen and that guy was just a prisoner. That's not how it works. The city is surrounded by unsullied in dot Raqi. They're like murdering indiscriminately, the Queen is killed and that guy go. And then the guy that does it goes to jail. Our anybody are any like mega fans coming to the defense of this last season in the separate. I have not seen. I've seen the only thing I've seen is like we should be grateful that the show is so good. And like these people did such a great job with their performances and yada, yada, yada, high, I agreed the show is they, they did something very cool. But, like, also, they bungled the ending so bad, that I think they have to like apologize cheek you be personally. No way. At least let them issue, a mea culpa everybody watching like you gotta be fucking. I need I need a. I did a personal apology in, like face to face by the way. Now I don't want like another phone up personalized handwritten apology to you. You is not an huge. You just wanna meet the cast, it's clear. You just wanna meet the cast. Okay. I mean, if if the king of the north delivers the apology gets a hang out for an afternoon, fine. I'll in character you out the actor to be in character to deliver the apology to you. And then you wanna hang out with that character. Yeah. I wanna I don't wanna hang out with kit. Harrington. I wanna hang out with Johnson. Okay. So as you want everyone to get back into costume apologized to you in person, and then you get to hang out with them, and they can't break character. I want to be in west arose for a year. You're asking for more time now you want them to rebuild sets for you. You want to visit the set not where did they shoot it in fucking Scotland, the set I want to visit west rose. Well, that can't happen. I'm sorry. I wanna be I wanna be like a Lord of winner fell for year in west rose. You wanna have some sort of medically induced coma dream that lasts a year where you're part of the universe. Now Nick arcade style. If completely invalid yourselves into the book and during the show that you're currently in, you want characters to apologize. Exactly. Oh, no. You got it. I don't get it. You got it. That's way too much. I'm glad you got it. Have you seen videos that are now surfacing of like character actors guessing how the show will end like two or three years ago? No, that's really fun though. What do they say? There's this. I think the lady who plays Sants again. I'm not one hundred percent. Sure was being interviewed at junk it with the guy who played Jamie Lancaster, and she's like, I think brand will end up on the king thrown. And then Jamie, Lancaster seems to like no because he was like trying to actively convince her that that's not how it works almost as. He knows he's like, no. That wouldn't work that wouldn't work because, like, yeah, it just it just wouldn't work forget that don't even report that. That's really interesting. It's crazy like stop this interview right now. That's so absurd. You'll ruin the show sought. All I got us send you that link who's that actor. He's not American right? No. I, I have I've seen his name, but he's like I think he's like Danish or some. Yeah he looks on the hawks more thing since hot younger cousin. Yeah. All right. One last question before we get out of here. Another lady who plays Sanga? Do you remember the characters name or the acts Opie Sophea rights, two years ago, I kissed a guy my friend was into Xi MU, she had moved away and I initially picked him up at the bar. So I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Oh. And I made out with his friend the same night and ended up quote picking him in the long run. I told her shortly after this happened in apologized flash forward to today. We're roommates and I heard from a third person that she's still mad at me about this between the grudges. She's holding other drama. We had and her overall negative attitude. I don't wanna live with her anymore. The lease is up in August, and I want her to move out and a cooler person to move in. How do I go about doing this or should I just find a new place in roommate? Thanks love. Sophie or Sophea so fi. Yeah. So what do you think about this one? I don't think you can force someone else to move out. I think if you don't like the person you got to leave. Yeah. I'm with. If you like between this grudge her negative attitude and other drama like it sounds like you guys have an awful relationship. Like you just told us like one thing that sort of like an insight like this is like the straw, breaking the camel's back. But, but it sounds your living situation. Sounds untenable to me, it's not working out for anybody leading you for this thing that you did two years ago. You're saying, and there was no other reason I bet if we talked to the roommate should be like, all right. Here's what's really going on. Yeah. Everytime. We should we should do another another podcast where we call the person that the questions about, that's cool. The other perspective, the other side, the other side, if I were you quote the other side aluminum area exclusive mood, there's two sides to every story. Good, and we'll even have piano music in the background. Yeah. Like investigative deep dive. Yeah. Into like what this relationship was like in why that's cool. And it will cost cash. Yeah. And someone should give us cash. There should give us a budget of what is like cereals budget, probably probably like one hundred fifty grand. So we got that we could probably do the episode more than that for. All right. So if we got, like five hundred grand in episode for that deep dive. This shitty roommate thing we could probably each episode for, like two hundred forty bucks with, like unpack like underpay a produce cheaper. And then we're pocketing what is like five hundred thousand minus two hundred forty bucks, like four hundred ninety nine thousand seven hundred sixty bucks. Okay. And then we split that evenly you and is, so that's yeah. By to what is that? It's like two hundred forty nine thousand eight hundred eighty bucks like that's pretty good. And like if you think that is, like that's that's per episode that, and, like ten episode series. What's that times? Ten. Tend to million four hundred ninety nine thousand eight hundred eighty bucks. Pretty frigging good for Ted weeks. Right. Yeah. It's a lot my head start to hurt. Yeah. But then you gotta like that's like taxes. Oh, all right. So, yeah. Those that's taxed on, like, like thirty five percent probably at thirty five. Yeah. So what's. What's my? You know, like, what's, what's. There. What do I? Yeah. What's, what do I have to pay to Sam? And what? What? Was what's million four? Thousand eight hundred eighty. Yeah. So then we got thirty percent going to the frigging government, obviously, for is like five percent, which is like ten percent divided by two. So it's back to the to forty nine eighty but divided by two is like one twenty four nine forty time seven. That's let's see one twenty fours twelve and a half time. Seven eleven time seven seventy seven plus another one, and a half seven which is ten I think it's close to, like, fuck wanna say like a million, maybe a million one bucks. I just did so much math for you. And then you're one follow up question was the unit of measurement yet. It's always been box everything I've been saying dollars, you're so dumb. You're not doing any of the heavy lifting came up with the frigging idea. Yes. Sorry. Bucks bucks. Everything's in US dollars so far. Do you want me to convert the currency? Yeah. Shit to what. Can you convert it to Icelandic kronur, because I think that's the dock. Seventy one yeah. Seventeen million four hundred thirty thousand ice landed Cronin. That's actually not bad. Can you do me a favor? If you're on your computer opened up a not on my computer. Yeah. All right. Do Zillow and accuracy. There's nothing that doesn't exist there. All right. He's a different website. I guess. Okay. All right. That's, that's now, you don't have to now you don't want to cast not I got so far, if I'm not going to be able to use Illo to find my summer, house and ice Lynn that I don't really see the point but those cool. All right. All right. Let's wrap it up. You gotta leave you can't. You can't you can't kick a roommate out, but you can kick yourself out. Yeah. I would say that is accurate unless you did something. So. And add this seems like it's a toxic situation. I feel like just get out entirely. Let's start clean. I think that's what we all right? Hurt. His enjoy. Thanks for listening, everybody. Do you have your own questions? Your own theme song send it all to if I were you show at g mail dot com. The opening one was written by Daolin Adam Dallan closing written by Jerry Grimes. So thanks, Jerry. Thanks, adam. Thanks to you Jake for joining us. Oh, by the way, you'd never gave out a award for this episode. I'm realizing, oh, yes. So I won. I won the golden Mike and you got the Turkey, so congrats. Congrats. To all around. Congrats to me. Congrats to you on taking on the Turkey. Yeah. Good job, and, and congrats to me for taking home, another GM pretty fun stuff. Good old stuff. I love it. We're going to be in Chicago. I should say there's about fifty tickets left Chicago show, had gum dot com slash live. You can see his June fourteen fifteen sixteen with all of our favorite had gum friends come on down. It's going to be a party. Yeah. We'll see who wins that golden Mike live. What do you think? That'll be cool other doing. We give them out during live sets. You decide that you get one during live upsets to of whatever you live up said, we've ever did you in for this week, by the way? What do you mean? Which joke. Did you have those the best you got to go the mic right room? Right. I think it was sort of like an overall performance thing. Than me for the Turkey. Was it? Do you think maybe I didn't win attorney but I didn't golden Mike. No. I thought you were being cagey about being like a, you know, the fact that you're chipmunk. So I feel like every time I have to pull that out of you. It's that's charity. Yeah. That's a little bit of thirty two. Just to me. That was like a turn based performance in a way. I think that I when the golden Mike, I had fun doing the show with you, man. Let's. Let's just try to stay positive because I think it's important for us to, to sort of, like, you know, present ourselves as like a, like a strong unit. And I don't want, I don't want this to, you know reflect poorly on you really I think at yourself in the mirror. Is that what you said, what is your advice? Yeah. That was my unsolicited advice to smile yourself. Just yourself. You're not smiling at me. You want to create a positive day for you. While you smile at me. We'll be back next week. You fucking prick. Suck my dick. Timepiece. Tom. Kill myself because. Persistent persist. It's creates resisted in this instance. Importance. Bird like L boned page partners. I would need to get through. Just tell you. Do. That was podcast.

Jake spring Jamie Lancaster squarespace Molly Twitter Adam Dallin Turkey Ramey Idaho patriots Mike Spotify Chicago Opie Sophea Wikipedia Boehner Europe Jill
Taste of 2019

HANNAHLYZE THIS

28:59 min | 1 year ago

Taste of 2019

"Elo Ear buds. This is Hannah. Hart one of two Hannah's coming to you from your radio sounds place speakers you know. It's Cetera this week on a very special episode of analyze this. We're going to be taking a look back. Can you believe that this is the end of the second year of this amazing program and you have been are amazing supporters all seasons long. Hurry so as an extra special thank you. We will be going through some of our favorite favor episodes of handle is this and reliving them for your joint and then next week we'll wrap it all down by talking about the year. Nee Decade that. It's taken us to the gate here. Man I can't believe it's about to be a decade in review. I don't feel like we've ever done this before. I can't remember ever once acknowledging that a decade has passed until twenty twenty. Have you let me know. And the tweets you know on the Internet anyway Please enjoy these episodes as much as we enjoyed making them Well this season to. Yeah back again. We're going to dive right into hook is. We're going to pick up with the pressing question that we left off with last week. which is if you were turned into a cat? How would you let your loved ones know God such such a good question right and You know I've been thinking about this question since like twenty twelve. I mean there's a couple options right now. There's like the I mean I just I well. There's also there's just so many factors it's like. Where do you come to as a cat? Are you in the home of your family. Are you out in the Wilderness. Somewhere do you have to like ring. Ring the doorbell magically. Somehow I think it starts with you so wherever you were at the time okay right so like. Let's say you're about to enter your house. You like. Put the keys in the door. You Open the door okay. Okay so I was going to say well what I would do is go to my loved one who would obviously on the computer and sit on the keys and then I was like every cat does bat. I was thinking okay. The Way I'd let them know is that have to get their attention. I'd knock something over every does that. You're right okay. You know what I would do. I would sit on on their lap and I would like stand on hind legs and put my paws on shoulders. And then I'll put my nose on their nose and I'll be like. Oh Oh my God what if when you like you cry for help you you know maybe like whoa cavern. This cat come from okay. That's good. What would what would you do? I think what I would do. I'm trying to think of something. A cat wouldn't do because right now. I'm freaking out that maybe my cats are humans instead of venture into the cats. All these things I think what I would do is I would pick up a piece of paper with my mouth and then I would go pick up a pen and then I would show that I'm trying to write and then they'd be like are you trying to write and then I would just stare into their eyes and then nod and then they'd probably scream and I. That's the hardest part. I guess after you've been turned into a cat. How do your loved ones dot? Just be like you know. That's really smart dude. That's really smart. I was thinking you could. Also if you're in your own home you can like go to objects that are very much like your objects checks over like that. Make the person you love about you so like if I was at home I would go to my Banjo. And I'm starting to talk with the Banjo with my little. Kitty paw right or go to my leg say Larouche off and be like or I could go to where we keep our sex toys. I just lay on top of them. Yeah I think effective strategy I mean there is inevitable throw your first. Few tries will probably not go through. I mean humans are really accustomed to ignoring the needs of cats. You know and you. Kind of have to after awhile. Heartbreaking heartbreaking sentence it's true though so in Tulsa and I'm actually actually wearing the sweatshirt I bought until because it was so freaking cold in Tulsa. I went to this incredible place called kitchen. Sixty six and it's it's a test kitchen incubator so basically it's like it's like a like a central market kind of station kind of thing where it's like a bunch of different mini restaurants and like a bunch of little pop up restaurants all together in a big food hall but they allow people to use the kitchens and to test out their business ideas. So for instance if we lived in Tulsa and we wanted to do Hannah's Hamas that's where we would go is we'd be like Hell my mission. We WanNA try. Hannah's Hamas Yada Yada let's see we do and then basically you go through the incubation program and then once you're through it they're like hey look you're selling food left and right you can make enough money to get out there and get your business started this amazing amazing thing but in this food hall I some saw someone eating What appeared to be natural style hot chicken which is at Cayenne pepper breaded just chicken masterpiece? You know so I was like I told one of the people I was Airway Q. Get me some of that because it's going to be after nine pm when I stop basically I just WanNa make sure. I'm leaving with chicken. So the person that worked at King Sixty six. It was like well. You know it's really hot. So how hot do you want it and I was like here in Oklahoma my California latest junk handle any spice. I'll take a hottest. And then she was like. It's really hot and I was like okay. I'll take one rundown rundown. Oklahoma is not Minnesota. It's almost the south. I think it'd be fair of New Mexico to Texas this anti it's above Texas. Is it one hundred percent above Texas. Damn Texas is big. Yeah 'cause he's like it fits a little hand. Yeah Yeah so should have thought of that. Not Minnesota at all I go. I have a great day. I meet some amazing people. Many hugs. I met probably the oldest fan of my work. I've ever met she. He was in her late Seventies. All that's so cool. It was like I love what you do. I love you girls online. Great the Laura thank you and who's this book for and she was like for me Betsy or whatever and it was like to your here on your behalf. What a punk rock glady in her seventies so fucking rad anyway? So was wonderful. Wonderful Time we finish I finished signing. It's like nine thirty ten. Get back to the hotel. Oh Oh and as we leave we pick up the chicken and I gotTa tell you like it smelled amazing and we were starving. This was one of the harder legs because it was pretty back to back from the flight so I really hadn't eaten a meal that day. You know I was kind of running off of coffee and kind bars. You know what I mean. So we're like ooh. Let's not start eating it now. Let's it just take it back to the hotel and I'm thinking wow I cannot wait to just be alone in my hotel room and just be like so disgusting with this chicken because I'm just to live in a hotel room. I just be like eating and when my hands. It's like you know that just like like when you're alone and you have cheese and you're like I'm just going to eat a blockage mccheese. That's you're alone and you have like a Burrito and then you just turn into a dog in the they give is going to happen like that and I'm so happy to be. It just smells amazing. I mean we're sitting inside the car and the whole cars just like Fried Chicken crispy hot and they've got potato Hato. Wedges is just going to be great I get to the hotel room. I'm so ready to eat this chicken. I take off my clothes and put on my rope. Dick Again I was gonNA fucking eat chicken. Maybe a little on myself and pass out like who knows because because I was still earlier heading the time zones. Nobody even better is if you were sitting in the bathtub then decided to eat it. I mean like I was just a step away. You know but I don't know if there was is a bathtub at this particular hotel I can't anyway so you like how I really considered. That was Yes I couldn't fill. The bath pillow is not water. Anyway I open up the box and it's three just gorgeous succulent chicken breasts with breaded fried like perfectly and there's like blue cheese dip and like another presumed to be there hot sauce dip. I take by an I explode. It is the fucking hottest thing I've I've earned. I took one by the ring of my mouth got swollen like it was like my God picture. In your mind's eye that little anime character that's like eating a hot soup and then they just start weeping. I'm on the phone with Ella and I was eating and it was. It was delicious Hannah it was delicious it was juicy it was crispy the skin it encased the chicken breast and hovered just above it so it was just so rich rich and good and just salty and mouth-watering. I mean thinking about the chicken now mouth-watering so I don't realize how much danger I'm in until well all into the second chicken breast. So how do you go about heating the first breast. When in fact your mouth is numb? I think that's part of it. So you're like just going to feel the pain and we're going to do this. Yeah because you're like that tot had cha hip okay okay so delicious. WHO had So do you have to keep going or are you died delicious and I'm like dipping it in the blue cheese and just like I'm drinking this chicken. It's so good I'm I'm halfway through the second one. My stomach like starts to just cramp and I'm like Oh my God. This is really really hot by the end of the third one. All the chickens gone. So that's good but I have made it really really bad mistake so at six. AM The next day. When I was getting ready for the flight okay? So you've seen the chicken. What's your getting to bed routine now? Are you like well. That's not gonNA hurt Learner. I've never experienced pain as a result of food only drinking you know maybe like food poisoning but basically I'm just like I wanna go to bed. Wake up kind dandy. Everything's great until I get to the airport. I I don't ever shit myself. I don't know what the warning signs are idle. I've never done it. I'm not you know I've never had food run through me w like Mexican food and Indian food to eat. It's also hot. It's runs right through me. Never had that happen until until the Tulsa airport where I had three separate full sessions of but fire of hot hot hot hot God. Did you have to put your underwear in the place where you shall use tampons. I was like I felt like I was doing like a spiritual cleanse like I was sweating. Oh God I think I was drooling at one point like it was so it was awful Hannah but honestly I mean it really was the best chicken ever had straight up though like. I think we're having national style. Dial I mean we might get some for the wedding. I mean it was the best I mean it was so good and if it was here I would do it again like I would just be like stuck. I mean I hadn't even made it. You have to remember. It was like six or seven o'clock in the morning when I was at the airport like walking around around for my flight. Could you imagine if I had been on the plane gene when this happened that would have been like something that would be funny five years from now but in the moment would be like the worst thing to ever happen especially because God oh anyway get to you know. Have you had any food ever made you. I've never had that reaction to spicy food in my life just once. Actually when I was in college I remember. I had some very authenticate dune food. And then I was fine but then for three nights in a row in the middle of loosen needed to wake up and go to the bathroom and I just remember feeling doing like so awful. Like like you're nauseous yet. But it's your but it yet nausea and your son. How all slower? Also Oh like a lawn. Sprinkler where it's like Sh- 'cause like I think I had to had shaved grosses episode. We've ever done. I had to change bathrooms because I was so because you don't airports there's like the gay is right next to the bathroom every time you walked in there she goes again so I walk back and forth across the terminal while like power walking while physically. clenching my my sphinx together. You know hot hot dude. You should write a little book. That's just about your poop adventures. Dude it's too soon okay. I just wrote a book that nobody wants. Please give me give you a couple of months till I wrote the next book. Nobody wants okay guys so laughter side we do want to talk about perfectionism today and it's GonNa be kind of intense and serious as it normally is but I have done some rituals and meditations so that I will not spin announced crazy manner. Just want you to know if it gets really intense. You can totally stop listening. That is fine. Okay here we go so We're getting is a really important stuff we're going to talk about. I can't even say we're GonNa talk about characters and their perfectionist behaviors saviors clap clap. Clap Q. The sweet sweet beats. Yeah I did not do. Meditation ritual lied to me my my morning here at the four seasons has been said in the following ways. I I woke up literally Hannah. I'm going to give you the exact play by play. If I'm warning Cup I went and got an eighty minute massage. Oh my God came back upstairs in had a smoothie then I'd take a bath teaches of mudbath or so cute and now I have returned so I feel fully prepared to talk about each of the seven kingdoms characters and their perfectionist tendencies since all of my devices have rebelled against me couch. You're going to have to lead the way on this because I can't open to anything or touch anything without crapping out. Tony Dude I am so happy to do that for are you. And also I feel a little bit smug because I remember when you were like it's all good all the way maybe anyways S.. I'm sorry Google if you're listening to this year you know you do some good stuff okay. So we're GonNa talk about these characters and their behaviors and underlying drawing beliefs. I'M GONNA go ahead and say or probably also going to get into their other kinds of not just perfectionist type things but like other crazy things that might be motivating them because says they're all there. Okay let's start with. We should say if you have not seen the most recent episode of Game of thrones. Stop listening we'll see you next week. The next week there will be spoilers. There will be spoilers and also used that one ear bud who tweeted at me and was like. Hey talk about withdrawing say. You're going to talk about it because I didn't know so this is for Yelm. Yeah here we go. I want to start with this one because it's just so the rich and viscera target area. ooh Oh my God. Danny's older brother. Yes we haven't seen him in a long time because he he died way back in season. What he's so fucking dead? He's real done but he was also all kinds of crazy. I think that one's a little too easy to start with. 'cause he's like look he wants to be the king he's the he's I mean. Go over here go ahead talk to me about this airs. Well no I I completely agree Like I wouldn't say he's a perfectionist. I think he has a He has delusions of grandeur and also Like possibly possibly narcissists disorder like and just a very a- inflated ego and sense of importance in the world any kind of has that magical quality of like being totally incompetent and a useless but thinking the opposite Some some political leaders come to mind well looking at our list. I actually WANNA start at the top of it with Robert Barath Ian the first king himself so in my mind I think Robert Breath perfectionist behaviors are. He sees everything in black and white. You know because he's like kill all the target this all good ran officers black and white and I also think that he has an underlying value and belief that he he is entitled to do whatever He wants all the time. But that's probably just is deep internalized. Sarah totally he kinda reminds me of like thank previous supervisors. I've had who are like I get all the gold but I do the littlest amount of work yeah I agree also 'cause like remember when ned stark was like dude you cannot kill this innocent girl and then Robert Baratheon was like. You're basically being trae right now. It's like no. It's not that simple thing loves you like a brother he's just trying to ling. Talk a little sense into you man and two. You're crazy frigging brain so that to me is very black and white thinking. I'm trying the line. Yeah where's that. Let's action as behaviors. You're yes what about cal Drago. I don't think he's a perfectionist. I oh his perfect. Just perfect to that. Oh okay you're going into my mind now for a second with call drug on I need a moment okay. Take take your time Bro. Moving on from Mr Robert Breath at the end to Jamie Lancaster. Here's the thing I think that Jamie Lancaster. I think that his perfectionist behaviors I guess it would only be not knowing when to stop. Like baby is a bad lady but then again here we are these eight and Jamie apparently has abandoned Sirsi finally and all it took was multiple multiple murders and plots and years and years of mental manipulation. Should so Jamie finally was like. Hey if you're going to choose to side with literal death zombies. I'm good you know. Yeah Dude and man. Isn't that just so so true-to-life sometimes you really have to be backed up into a corner before you're like okay. I got a decent. I'd say avoiding the situation As well you know like he was like wow. This causes me. Great unrest every day. How incredibly insane you are? However I'm going to hang in there until you literally trend? Kill me with your giant Zombie. Manservant and I'M GONNA take my beautiful face at get the fuck Outta to hear so all it took was for him to lose one hand over the question do you do you think that Bryanne of L. Man. I'm going to get so multi-layered here here. We go Jamie is at his core. Of course a night. He is a knight of the realm. He wants to serve IRV. He wants to serve the seven kingdoms so much. So that when he killed the king and became king slayer it was to save the people and to serve the seven kingdoms. He did that and that it was his cross to bear but he got the name King slayer then he meets someone like brand of Tar who has never had easy. You Know Jamie was like oh I wanna be annoying and everything okay beautiful Jamie. What are we in Oliver? All of a sudden yeah pretty much pretty much like okay. uh-huh I would it be night. It's like Okay Jamie here. Let's open all the doors of privilege for you. Then when he meets someone like brand of Tar who no unsupported who has lived her life as a night without ever getting the title without ever getting any of the accolades without getting benefits and and literally be scorned and ridiculed at every turn. I think that meeting Brienne showed Jamie what the person he truly they wanted to be actually looked like. Oh Yeah Dude I gotta say I ship them I really do. I really want to I chest Jamie does have I think he has a good heart. He's good heart but his perfectionist behavior was really stopping him We we here at handle is this can make anything apply to anything. Let's get right to it and answer the question. What would you do if you could switch lives with the other Hannaford Day who you deserve a Nobel Prize I ask you? This is such a good question but I can't let you before. I never even thought about it. Really you know what I would do. What would you do it again? I see what you did there. I would wear a lot of blazers because because since I am a large breasted woman when I wear a blazer I don't like the way it looks I feel like a look like basically really misses umbrage Miss Bridge just like very kind of like top heavy and and box like a and hey ah you're large-breasted women out there and you're wearing blazers fucking. Yeah Rock on righteous would love for one day to have that like Shane From the l like very sleek titlist what you're describing is known as titlist nece. Yeah a man. But you know there are stylish blazers for big breasted women. Lynn raise the blazers all the time but she asked to find very specific cuts. Yeah but I think that's true for all Blazers Blazers Man. You know if you were made for a day you'd be wearing blazers I would also sing a lot because you have a beautiful voice. Oh so do you ubud easy. But mine's very boring and like not soulful you know it's like I have like a pretty voice because I sang in choir but not like I'm GonNa go out on the street and fucking and Busk for money. That's what I would do if I were you hit hard. I would go on the street where Blazer busk it'd be like hello really no. That's that's a great way to spend the day. Oh that I'd be tale. Ella that you were handed Galvin had his body as an excellent question. I didn't really think about the real world implications. The answer is immediately. Yes the the fact that we've taken so long Martha I'm disappointed. That situation altogether. Then you'd be like a little you'd you'd be a little Pixie. Go out to a straight bar and be me. Oh my God you could get some. Poontang could be surprised. See when people walk up to me like that'd be like ooh. Oh you do by impression of your excellent excellent excellent and see what it's like to be five wide by four one. That's ridiculous you're anybody who's above height the height of five five or five six thinks anyone. That's not five six is five one it you you mean duty called it. It's the Greco Roman. You're like. What are you five one? It's all the same to me. Okay I'm GONNA do a little doodle sketch of me you as me on the street. busking for money. Okay okay so what would you do heart if I if I woke up and I was Hannah Hart me inside. GELB life and body I would get up at. I'd be like okay. got a lot to do and only sunrise to sunset to do it so I get dressed. I go to my job. quit it by everybody. China Galp. I'm quitting my job. Take all my stuff. I'm not weeks. Notice piece actually. This is my two weeks notice because by sunset you'll be in your body against then at pack all your stuff Then I go to bank account empty it then I would take a take all of to Los Angeles say Hannah Gale by notes. You in there and you it. Conceivable hit her with like playing a Banjo Wall. Sing it can take a screen shot that they can what you're talking about. Also why don't we sell like a horse. We yeah got definitely to Horsey there. I'm you now I quit your job. I left just enough closed for your two weeks notice. You will get the rest of your money and belong to hide your body of logs and then I would force you to move your like. I'm going to be controlling in your body. Glad to get done so I kind of want to extend the parameters of this question. What would we do when we saw each other in each other's bodies I think I honestly would be like what are you like five one and I would probably it'd be like this is curious as locker holding? You're so heavy I feel so oh tie you wanNA cuss them to be knocking into thing. Oh my God had a new. Just be jumping up and down the jumping onto the furniture that off. You'd be doing pushups. Dang right You'd be wearing really tightly bound shirts. I don't know yeah fascinating. Maybe I should try short story. Maybe we should run a joint short story about this. Maybe I wish you you know. What's a bummer? I just had the thought and it caused me a little little legitimate paying of sadness I was like oh no. We'll never be able to do that. It wasn't it wonderful to take a stroll down memory lane. What are some of your favorite episodes? Please let us know. What do you guys hope to see for season three season? We season free. Who knows what are we going to do next year survive it? Then maybe thrive in it. I hope so l.. And I hope that you have really enjoyed being here with US along the way until then my friends the maybe next year we'll figure out what the end note will be. So you know. Maybe it's like kiss.

Hannah Jamie Lancaster Tulsa Hannah Hart blazers Texas Ella Oklahoma Hannah Gale Google nausea drooling Yelm Larouche Tony Dude King slayer New Mexico Minnesota Banjo Wall Dick
Visions in the Flames 2021 Part 7: ASOIAF TMG Character Attachment Changes, Designer Chat

On The Table Gaming

23:46 min | 5 months ago

Visions in the Flames 2021 Part 7: ASOIAF TMG Character Attachment Changes, Designer Chat

"Welcome back to the table gaming and this week we're talking about visions in the flames episode seven and as always come joined by game designer michael chanel and lead game developer. Bobby of curry. Trying to the podcast. Once again chase. You know the drill living groundhog's day like this guy again like oh we're in twenty twenty one twenty bed those same old same old but you guys. It's not same old. Basically you guys came in here with another article really opened up our understanding of where things are going once again for some of the mentors game though in this latest article penned by fabio. Well done thank you. You talk about how you re evaluating the points on every attachment and you give us some examples especially with the idea of character attachments now being cost. You're you're saying around one to two points with a few three point exceptions. Maybe what's what's the thought process behind these changes in. How do you see your revamping of care. Attachments in general. How do you see those changes. Enhancing the game at large so We were noticing that attachments usually weren't bringing in their weight went in regards to point costs instead of keeping them at really high costs. In general we decided to lower these These points costs to maintain the effects. And now we we believe that there in par- This is in regards to but character. Attachments specifically need a special look into them because of just how they interact with the books and an how bad can raise challenges to when we're adding them to the faction because some characters like greg gagne right. How do you represent gregor gain an army of. He's supposed to be this big huge angry guy right and he can cut a horse in half. I'm rambling now. But what i mean is That's not really. The lancaster placed owl. But gregory is a lancaster piece. So how can we make that fit in where seems natural and plays naturally into the faction. That's the hardest part. I would say was really cool. Seeing the the four you gave examples. I think so far has since you've really been keeping to the theme and i'm excited to kind of get into those but how do you see. Maybe what's your philosophy behind it. It's really hard to balance these for sure. But how do you see. Carrier task may be representing something other than what you can get in your regular run the run of militants so when it comes to characters it's almost kind of a reverse design loss with generic attachments. You take something that as a theme for the faction or a mechanic that you want to see implemented and you can build an attachment based around that with characters you kind of have to start from a separate point where you have to go. This is the character what do they represent. And then work that into factions like. Let's take a look atlanta's for example. If we're gonna make something like a guard. Captain or assault veteran or champion of the faith. We can design those to fit the needs of what we need mechanically or some theme the faction that we want to explore to characters. We can't we have to start from the identity of that character. So we have like greg orkla gain. He is a big rampaging monster. Which kind of is the antithesis of a lot of what the lancasters have. So you know you can't just give him a set of abilities that mechanically fit if they don't thematically fit in with him so for his example he becomes a subset of okay. I play lancaster's which are based on control manipulation and things like that but my commander choosing to take his as big. Rampaging combat monster technically the mechanics skill set of abilities. If you have that would be better suited in another more aggressive action. But you have that option. Because it's greg or you know he's inland kind of centralized theme like it doesn't make sense if he was in stark says makes sense losing grade joyce he is lancaster and not including an iconic character. Like that that's just not something you can do. Therefore it'd be like nope. Sorry guys you don't get to play these guys because they were too hard to make right so you know you have to work around. How do i keep true to. What makes this character this character but also makes it so he meshes with the faction in a way that you know is rewarding and enjoyable to play examples you gave i think really keep the flavor a lot and maybe starting with even jo-john read here there with a green site. We see a pretty big transformation. Here right. I mean. Joe john reid really before was kind of the disciple of the orangey gods and now we have his abilities going actually to the point of being an innate ability and so each time he performs an attacker charge action. He can gain one of the following abilities. Can rewrote device. Can rule is charged distance and ignore hindering and rough terrain keywords. I mean that's really great and it's and it's baked in so it seems like there. Maybe is this kind of hinting at the idea of general. Shift away from some of the more random elements in this Twenty twenty one update. Could you maybe speak behind that or the thought process behind that. Well randomness is not only unavoidable. But part of what makes a war game. Fun so We're not running away from randomness right but but on these more specific cases like joe. Jn i guess that the random element although it was interesting as a design space it was not really being perceived as something fun by the players because it wasn't as reliable as it should be when you're paying points for something. You should usually know what what's going to happen while so in this case it's also a matter of your points investment if you have a random effect that can happen majority of the time like one point attachment. That's different than having something. I'm investing to or potentially even three points into that sometimes not gonna do. I want that basically comes down to okay. Am i going to have this unreliable. Two point investment here that is potentially very powerful but also potentially doesn't do anything to me or to lesser one point investments here. So that's where it comes down into averaging your cost versus effect. And that's actually kind of the overarching topic of the article that we put out this week in in those regards you know what does one point by the game. What should two points by you in the game three points and upwards absolutely okay interesting so now kind of going through my head and try not theory craft. What what other units might look like here. But let's stick on the ones that we do know here that you've spoiled so jamie lancaster. Okay so i i know duncan roads. He was big fan of running. The old jamie ran a lot of those in his early lancaster games. I'm sure he'll be excited to see this updated attachment but what. I'm wondering. two things is number one. you know jamie. Lancaster has been in the game for a while. You remember like how early was the young lion. Originally designed in this games life cycle. Was it like this one of the earlier attachments that was made. And how does the twenty twenty one version may be capture like the thematic feel of. This character was actually the second character. A sketch drawn up when we were initially pitching the game in the concepts to george martin. That's on back and that's how many years ago is that because that's gotta to be. I know last year was a good decade so anything before that is just the the great long ago before times fair enough fair enough and you know so flavor wise we see this chain cheer stalwart. He's got now marshall training in which he can rural attack based and defender becomes vulnerable. Know how are you. How do you feel like you're capturing the identity of jamie landed like the feel of the characters in this sort of particular attachment so Jamie is actually one of the lancasters people with the most martial training. So not only does that fit in that sense but we really wanted to represent that. If jamie's there everyone knows he's. They're not only his opponent but obviously his own units and they want to perform better wanna draw his attention so we do believe that the combination of martial training with stalwart represents jamie. These abilities individually might not but them together really bring him up as his own character so one of the things that when it comes to jamie lancaster that is kind of glossed over in some of the source material. Like when people are remembering it is that you have the public perception of jamie and then you have jamie as a character. We spent a lot of time with them personally. A character so we see his true faces everything but it is talked about many times. That wind jamie is like in a battlefield camp or some time. You know moving Forces around they are inspired by him because he still has that reputation as the greatest. Do list of one of the greatest swordsman to ever live in seven. Though he is this you know we know who he is. Actually a person but there is still the legend that surrounds. You know the the young lion and this is the version that represents that the one that is you know boosting the morale of the men that he's around like you know oh man we have the golden lion ear. We've got jamie lancaster with us. We can't possibly lose. And you know we know jamie is a person. He's very flawed. He has you know he does somewhat care about the people around him but he's also willing to just do it can to save himself but no one really knows a lot about that so when we have the different versions of jamie we have his commander version which even with the new update. So we did. We'll get into this in the coming time. You know he is basically these star of the battlefield. He is the the center. You know the ringmaster. And that's how his commander version plays where it's all about jamie. All the time. Making his unit the best to possibly can and making sure he is the just absolute shining beacon on the battlefield. Then you have the king slayer that that's all right. That's as king slayer which is more like kind of infamous version of you have kings guard version. Which is representing the fact that he is. You know one of the best duelists out there. Seven kingdom so it's really pushing that aspect of and then you have the young lion which again represents that kind of living legend to The lancaster forces like oh. This is a battalion. Here led by jamie lancaster. Yes we're gonna be more inspiring and yes. He does have the martial training capabilities not necessarily in leading men but inspiring them and just being there you know he does have like proper like night training everything which is more than the common guardsmen or something. Yeah absolutely man. And i think that's what's so cool about seizes that i felt like he really did. Capture the feel of jamie lancaster in the original version. But in this one in a moving beyond the kind of inspiring it through like bolstering ranks in this case having stalwart having the martial training for the line like it seems like you menace to capture captured again in the wholly different way. We're not holding a different way but in another way that maybe actually feels like more authentic to the theme of the character and i think with all attachments that really kind of rings. True moving onto corn half hand. Here i mean wow like. He's looking sharp so you know his order to the last is pretty fantastic in this case when when the units destroyed that he's in the unit makes the morale test and on a success. It's not destroyed but it remains in play with one wound and then becomes panic. Invulnerable as you pointed. Article with night's watch you know lacking morale like it's not bad average sat around five. This is going to be a pretty cool ability and additionally you've got go down fighting still but here we see that. Go down fighting. It doesn't have the kicker anymore it doesn't have the if you control the attacks on the tax board. You d three wounds. Does that kind of the the dropping the three. That's sort of kind of in line with your overall philosophy of the twentieth. Twenty one update as well right or or moving away from some of the d. three effects and it seems to be more like a rank based or more static based yet definitely you can expect go down fighting to be in koren's version across the board where it was placed and while i guess in this case we felt that the effect itself was already good enough. The fact that deals wounds is supposed to be very special inouye and we felt that we didn't need that kicker effect to increase the damage output. Because it is already reliable inconsistent in regards to to the last. I guess you can actually fit coren. Basically anywhere in a night's watch list because of their very good morale values. So it's not always going to work but it's consistent. It's pretty consistent right. You can kind of bet on it like you know there's ways to set it up to make it not work to for your opponent liberty counterplay and we're going to speed through these things to get to the as always the really important stuff there which is the weeper cruel tyrant with the free folk and you know. He saw his orders replaced so he dropped both orders instead. Now he has one order grizzly example and this allows them to inflict a wound on his own unit to make all enemies at short range panicked. Which is really cool. And it kind of lost. The kind of bolstering his own troops or keeping them from running away through being fierce but instead now really leading that offense component and in disney gains vicious on his base so in a faction with a lot of attachments. It must be really interesting. Challenge to make characters like really stand out. I love how here like kind of making it the centerpiece kind of like you talked about jamie lancaster being kind of a centerpiece unit. The weeper as an attachment here really does have that feel in that it. Has you know kind of an aura effect. Was it challenging like trying to kind of reinvent or to make tweaks to characters that are attachments in in this new update. I'd say for the free folk more so than any other faction and let's talk about the weeper specifically in this case what we of felt that. Although he was playing on morale and panic a why was he actually helping his own. Units pass panik tests. Read feel something that the weeper would do. So we i wouldn't say he was rian visioned but we just had him into his place. You can't lift his allies you know. Just because he's a bad guy doesn't mean he's a bad guy. He and i think with these free folk chiefs like some of them like steer is the magnar they haven't titles but these i'm just going to call them generically chiefs although that is wrong cannon. I'm sorry we'll cut you some slack. Here they'll all of them want to push their own play style and that's kind of the free folk way you know especially with a attachments in character attachments. Were they all came from a different place. They have a different strategy and free folk are supposed to have this wide ray of tools that don't necessarily Don't necessarily synergies with each other. And that's sort of what the reaper does. He is pushing that panic of Mechanism in your army to a really high level. But only where he is and that's not necessarily gonna energize with the other commanders right but once you put them all together you're going to break through your enemy one way or another. You'll eventually have the right tool that's awesome and it looks like it's gonna be really cool to maybe even trigger off of lake with things like coordination tactics where it also has that clause that you can trigger like start of the turn order at the same time like this is a cool attachment because you could trigger on his turn charging your vicious but it seems like it's also going to be situation where maybe you're going to be outside of charge range and you can't do that and that is actually going to be something they can use wants. Your troops are already engaged. And you know you're not getting those bonuses necessarily from you know the charge we roles and you're you're getting bogged down and seems like he'd give you a nice little bursts there to get a bunch enemies panicked so even when you're hitting them you have a chance of pushing through some damage. I don't know it seems really cool. And i like the way is such a flavorful character. So i'm excited to see like how he fits into the context or doesn't fit into the context of the other characters or other attachments was interesting challenging at all like picking what character attachments you to show like. How did you come to these four So honestly on this case just went like well. We don't wanna show too many here because we don't want articles to go like super long. We have you know seven factions here. Show through and everything so we just like well. We just pick the first four. So you know lancers start nights wash free folk and that's when we went with you know because we wanted to limit this to characters and already showed a couple of characters when we showed the neutrals before. So you know it's like well show something special there so we'll just go here and you know. Pick these next time you know. It might be some other factions that we showcase in everything on top of that. We also wanted to show attachments from from these factions. Obviously that helped people understand what we were envisioning. And what what changes to be expected expected a final point there as well as that. We wanted to showcase in this one. Some of the ones that went through Let's say some of the more like a larger scale changes. Just there are some attachments like they received very minor tweaks if any maybe ability name change or in some cases no change at all and so it wouldn't be really cool. We were like. Hey here's some examples of things you can expect in two thousand twenty one. Nothing nothing at all there. You go so we choose some of the ones that like either received an overhaul or some major changes i would say versus just ones who had some smaller numbers tweaks or whether they stayed the entirely the same more on ability name changed and i was -nificant so kind of maybe trying to mind a little bit of stuff here. It seems like so. Go down fighting. We've seen example of That kind of kicker ability being not there. The tactic sport component Is that something we might see. More of an is there Any explanation of philosophy behind why on some of the maybe generic. We don't see them have any interplay with the tactics boards on these examples. So i this is actually a very case by case scenario. We didn't see the need for that on go down fighting but other abilities and tactics cards will still maintain their Effect some abilities gained kicker effects. It once again. It's really hard to give just one answer here sweeping change. It's a hey for this one ability. Go down fighting. We realized it didn't need it. Exactly exactly yeah usually if something was cut out it's because it just wasn't needed or it was creating just a improper scaling. Compared we want to see like in the case of go down fighting you're having a very consistent effect here in dealing one damage destroyed rank and then you had this little boost to the fact that was okay instead. Now it's going to be d- three if these conditions are met so when we're evaluating the point costs and through that we have seen like okay. Does this affect like how this affects valued at what is it bringing to the faction is this part of the effects. Something that's really needed and in our like in this specific situation you know one of our efforts was to lower the amount of just a automatic looms they go through and whatnot and so this just naturally went to the chopping block. Is this something that wasn't needed. Also ties in with the concepts of lower damage out but overall the we've spoken about previously so again it's a case by case thing you know in some actual effects gained additional interactions with tactic slots similar. Like what you see the king's guard or actually in the situation here where you know if you meet a certain condition usually controlling a tactic zone you'll gain some additional bonus effect those actually have been increased very slightly across some effects through the game but again like i said it's a case by case a lot of them are removed some them or tweet some sideways k. People have been really excited about these updates. You guys have been doing a great job communicating putting out these weekly articles. It's been absolutely fantastic. I know we're still a little bit of ways away from the release the update. Right you as you're saying quarter to. Is there a plan to continue onto this sort of formatting until then or if not visions will be continued updates or information coming out about the game up until the release. Yeah definitely we do plan on keeping communications very open and a steady but of course there is a limit that we can show until eventually we've shown everything and discussed everything so probably don't expect any large sweeping changes articles because most of everything has been covered right now. will take the time to pick our favorites and talk about some more specific aspects and. Yeah and that's hey. I have an idea here. And let's go off script here for a second not that we actually have a script here. Come to think of it but let's go even further off the rails here so one of the articles that we were going to be posting of at some point was since we've looked at the character catchments we going to have a bit more of a focus on the commanders specifically when we talked about before about the play styles they bring and one of the efforts of really focusing them in as this is their role in the army. This is why you're going to play them and really honing in on what makes each personality cool so that was going to be the topic of articles and of course in this articles we show examples here and whatnot. So let's go ahead and reverse this and put chase on the spot here and go chase technically edit this time but we're going to hold you to a very strict timer. Yeah okay you got to name one commander here in tokyo. Is that how you wonderful on the table listeners. Out there chase in his infinite wisdom and just absolute enthusiasm has thrown out torment giant spain out of every single potential. Oh whatever that narrows. Then thank you could have picked the king slayer but orman giants team so you to miss the. I'm so sorry listeners. Get so i guess. Join us for you know our upcoming article that will have out in the the upcoming fissuring and a specific spotlight on torment giants. Pain of the free folk man this day. Hey chase until then we hope you get your measures they.

jamie lancaster jamie lancaster michael chanel greg gagne greg orkla Joe john reid fabio gregor george martin Bobby gregory magnar stark joyce greg atlanta Captain Lancaster duncan
The White Book S11E27 439

The White Book

1:23:36 hr | 9 months ago

The White Book S11E27 439

"He was more interested in the pair that came behind him. The Queen's brothers the. Of casserly rock, the Lion, the IMP there was no mistaking which one was which Sir Jamie Lancaster was twinned Queen Sursee tall and golden with flashing green eyes and a smile that cut like a knife. He wore crimson silk high black boots of black satin cloak on the breast of his tunic. The lion of his house was embroidered in gold thread roaring in defiance the called him the lion of Lancaster to his face and whispered king slayer behind his back. Welcome to the wife of podcast. The original egging Lebron's L. CG podcast originally founded in two thousand ten. To Champs in a trump, we decided to rebrand win the game relaunched second edition. A huge. Thank you goes out fantasy games or Dr Martin for this game world we love and of course to my co host. The listeners pleased. If you enjoy the show, leave us a review on itunes or lab choice comment on facebook threads or even better support us on Adriaan with turning that kind of support back into the Younan. This is season ten of the White Book Art. Tidbit for the listener worse. Yeah. You know other quotes that I considered this week. There's another one year mentioned what? Well if the Price Roberts company is an infestation of Lancaster's so be it and I thought you know that's that's a that's a great collective now known for a group of Lancaster's and. They shouldn't I mean this game was definitely in festival Lancaster's at the point in which. The product we're going to discuss today was printed. So true. So true. Well. In that case, I'm will and I'm Roy. And it sounds like we're diving right into it then right? Yup I think our our plan today is to return to the series that we were working on before. I took a little bit of a break and offer some personal life stuff and talk about the Lions of casually rock the second deluxe box of a game of thrones second edition. Indeed the good stuff the best of box. This is the best box. I have fond memories of this box. This whole process I've tried to be. Candid as I can be This was the first product that I worked as a play tester. At the main group of play testers. After the CORSET. My team of folks joined, of course, testing a little late. But this I helped work on this box from beginning to end and it was the first product that I was. Excuse me like did that with? So I have really fond memories of this product hand. Yep. That's good. That's good. I of course I. I'm pretty sure I've said before I bowed out of play testing after the core set, but the Lancaster lawyer listed me always really wanted this box. To be the best of boxes. I think it was not in the end but when it was released, I had very high hopes. I think there's a really powerful staples and one of the cards that fundamentally transformed the game is in this. Fox. A So I think he ended up turning out. Middle of the road, but on the higher end of the middle of the road boxes So I think it doesn't maybe have. The power level of say, the Beira box or the great joy box but I think the cards are I think of a more consistent power level across the board so I think we hit kind of our goal because it's really hard for Danny, and eight to design because Lancaster was so powerful at the time. And they didn't want to like you know put a bunch of broken in. infested. Further infest the Metro Atlanta. Cards. So, they tried to push them new themes. I'm sure we'll get to those themes and I think they did a great job. I think it didn't end up working out because I think. The the game start the overall power level of the game started going up because of the consequences of the first two cycles that we talked about and the Lancaster box kind of is the last product is designed before this kind of realized and when we get to the third cycle, which I will be the next episode of this we do. Will sort of see that power junk wants Danny takes over full time and there's a realization of where the power level of the game was thanks to tie win in the mountain and rather than lower the because particularly, I don't think we got our first restricted. List until the fourth cycle will does that sound about right maybe the end of the third cycle maybe. Yeah. I was about say maybe the end of the third. I think. I might have to Of. Double. Check what was released in the third Bob Flea bottom was really. that. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So and let's see Oh but it was card ninety eight. So it was pretty close to the end already inside. Yeah. So I think it was the fourth cycle I. Think in the third cycle, there's an attempt to match the power level is using the restricted list or a ban list if you want to to lower the power level of the game. There's just a detective print cards at the power level of Taiwan in the mountain and other cards. So there's big power I think star in the third cycle, the second cycles the last. Even starts here it does. If we want talk to if we want to talk about a power crews card. There's definitely see but I think this is the last. Box Os practice really designed to with that philosophy of the hangover from first edition. Is. Kind of like where is fully worn off by the end of this product? I think we talked a little bit about there was some attempt to try to keep the power level down which means which meant when they missed. They really missed. Taiwan right is the example but the mountain is another example is tie when the biggest example I just missing entirely I think high school would posit Jamie Lancaster's. The which we're talking about broken. Oh Broken Mrs Broken Mrs I'm talking about like where? Where like there wasn't attempt that we talked about this a lot, right? I several episodes to lower the power level right. But were they missed and the parables highly Taiwian the Mountain Herron Halls Lansner Herron Hall. Ren -ly. Like these they really missed. Like business cards were just so powerful. This product the last one that sort of tries to keep the sick closed and the sort of spinach is broken open starting in the third cycle, which actually one of the things I love about the third cycle we'll get extent. Sure. I got talking about our next episode out of the way, which is a tradition of. These episodes. So we'll where do you WANNA START Well, a traditionally we've been starting with. The release articles and I think we acknowledged this in our last episode of the series But the this article also continues it where. We are seeing shift in articles to being just a marketing vehicle and not a design insight vehicle. We we don't get any commentary here that I see from nate or Danny about the the kind of perspective of this, what is seeking to do expand on or anything, but a will at least say that at this point in that transition I think you can definitely see in in later articles that they get shorter and shorter kind of reveal less but one is still. Despite being marketing, very of verbose at what is here shows off a lot of cards talks about a lot of contents even if it's not necessarily talking about the philosophy behind them. So I think there's still a lot to work with here offhand It really hits on the fact that you're going to get new versions of all the iconic Lancaster family members, it. It also hits on the fact that intrigue mattering. Finding ways to win the game through intrigue is going to be a big focus of this particular release and that it is also a going to push clansmen as a something here as A. Man. What's the the term for magic that I'm spacing out on now? Cycle. no. No. Where you have like all elves irving empires or try try. There we go. Yes it is a magical terminology supported tribe in this set. Yes. which I feel so silly that I forgot because, of course, all the clansman are in tribes literally in in the fiction. So they are literally tribal. Yeah. Yeah. Would have been nice if I remembered that to just go straight to it. and then it does also hit on. The pre established theme of having to cards for all the other factions that kind of play at cross emphasised themes that the main house is GonNa get. So. That's that's the gist of of the article there. Is there anything else you would like to kit from that article or now he started boll is. Besides. Really really hitting your head hitting you over the head with how good sir she is. I think the article that doesn't is nowhere near the scene, the first two or three articles of this we talked about. So yeah, it's worth much more attention. We may just Stephen Stop mentioning them after this one because I think. They become a little less important. To not important at all. Agreed definitely by here we are way way out in the future. But definitely by by the end of the effigy life cycle. They've become little more than marketing blurbs even. so Much to be gleaned. Well. Do we want to start with. Like she's the marquee card and the in the said her interior I guess or the to marquee cards in the sad the elephant in the room. So to speak, she's easily the most powerful and most played card in in this besides the agenda which I think we should end episode talking about the agenda maybe. Because it's So powerful and so foundational to sort the beginning of the second phase of. Second needs to. Never, really thought about it before as being divided into MC, you ask phases but I can I can kind of see that now actually. Talking to his story, I can't help but not like pure today is things I- notoriously to my own life. So I'm telling stories or talk about the past of the my wife like this period of my life compared to this other period of my life she's like you don't have to hear is room. You're not that interesting, which is true or not. But the game of thrones card game is indefinitely I, think rains the rain the post rains era is. Very different than what came before it. and. It's going to push the game actually I. Think. Although I've came to truly hate. Lance terrain spoil her the deck that Kinda crystallize this. But I think overall rains ended up being a pretty positive effect on became. We'll get to that though I think we should maybe say that for the because it's very forward-looking compared to some of this other stuff. So what do you think about this? Well I think she is at and you knew where I was going earlier when I was objecting a a little bit to some of your. Have power level comments that she is the new standard in a lot away from from here on right we've been measuring everything off of Taiwian before this and it's not the time when becomes bad but I think comparatively. This is one that we we look at Sorry one being a seven cost character that they really stuff a lot in to you and that combined package does so much other than. So. Much that you know the Taiwan sort of just economic engine, the sursee now interacts in challenge face so much more in some of that is due to support guards here and elsewhere. But I think one of the other comparisons it really jumps out at me is that they are obviously trying to make that cinematic design nod that Nedley nod to Jamie of the course at right who did neil to attack a military challenges and type of thing here she is his twin on the intrigue challenge, but you can. You can tell they've kinda cranked everything else up a bit more I feel His renown, somehow her reaction and the extra. Strength Buff Really. In a Lotta ways makes her feel more impactful than. Jamie does at at this point. Yes in the core set I think he he was definitely there. But in a lot of ways I think he he has been waning by this point and continues to Wayne. So I don't think that Jamie ever leaves being at least a one axon most challenge is based Lancaster decks. Right? It's depends too. I think one to to like gland crossing. He was always at least one. Like. One or two like I think he remains a staple card like in any challenges based Lancaster deck up to the end of the game in right in some ways that's just a function of him being a body and particularly a unique body for never bet against my family I mean looking at the the crossing example Sursee is three x in that sort of thing right? While Jimmy drops down to one. I mean she's much more powerful than six. Jamie but I think that the six Jamie remains I think a staple answer car I'm not disagreeing with you that this is not over pushed. It's definitely over pushed Underselling just how consistently good the core Jamie ended up being. Okay. That's that's fair. In the wider scope of things I am probably downplaying him but that's just in service of making the direct comparison to his twin here where you can see they are trying to give that nod but they have also pushed her further. Oh. Yeah. I mean I think we can talk about her with Tyrian a little bit because I think while there's two cards I. Think you have to think about this. In context with which one Taiwan, like Taiwan I mean it's quite the course of Thailand. It's quite radically think about it is like looms over this this box and the goal I think of most of the cards in this box is to not be played in a mid range. Taiwian lander based deck. Course at. Times. And tyrian I think are the two attempts to create. Tribal or thematic supported seven drops that you could be like look to try to make sickly say there's like three last archetypes. There is the mid range glance ter-. You'll play the best card in every slot flexible get that early advantage smash people in the face with puts in and and the map which was the dominant strategy when this boxes printed, right? There's an attempt with that. Syrian to build this new I like Agra Ambush -I clansman thema Tyrian. And this intrigue theme, which is somewhat present in the in the core set but. These goals trying to push that? I think would hurian they succeeded. because that Tyrian is only only can be played in the deck that has at least kind of clansman module. Otherwise, you just like. A blank card right I. think he triggers off himself as well. I think, right. Let me read it real quick. If you challenge no, he does not want to challenge you need a Klansman for him to work. Okay. Do Anything. All right. So yeah, he only works at cosmetic this certainty that industry deck never really came together on a competitive level. In like quite the way I think that F F. G. Expected it to I mean obviously, there were certain intrigue but they do at least in the article here talk. More specifically about intrigue as a route to power and the talk about power along in relation to it soy I think it may be didn't come to exactly the point that they were going for but kind of the point next door to that. Yeah and I think the but the problem is she ended up being playable with Taiwan the course at Thailand and I think that's the problem with this card. The fact that she pushes Lancaster crossing to another deck that wall. Frequently, he slid into tier two once it came together, I? Think. Not Too long after this box print it right those crossing decks started to to show up. It never really left the Meta. You know remained the land even when Lancaster was truly everyone was making fun of Lancaster. There were still people who would steal tournament with land crossing. When Mace like the Big Mace Tournament of Gen Con Twenty. Eighteen The bloody members bought land crossing, right? They like they thought that was the best thing alongside probably one of the most broken decks of all time in thrones the Mace Warsak right. So this card really did end up missing because ended up being kind of a pretty decent mid-range. Lancaster card to a bland and powering the lands to rush archetype a lot. So I think this is the most powerful card that's read in this box. And I think she's the one that kind of. is almost too much of a success for her own. Good. Choose spas a Combo. Deck to got about that for a second. Yeah. Yeah. Without that one did not last very long but now I got restricted long with the viper boy. Yeah. Which of course was that I restricted list, right? That was the first restricted list right. So that's like halfway through the fourth psych life think yeah that that that sounds about right. Yeah. So I think if we're talking about a pure design level I I like her. On a play design level I? Think she's a failure. I think she does she's a little too powerful for I think where they wanted her to be. But compared to Tyrian I think Tyrian is all around. A really good success. The. Slaves. Me Cards Are Not. That's where I think his problem is I'm not sure you hit hard enough the comparison of this Tyrian to course Tyrian as well. So I, mean it. Anytime, you have multiple unique stacking up against each other that can be an issue and this this wound up being such a narrow theme while the other Tyrian, had such a broad appeal that was problematic for a number of ECON related reasons that we've talked about at length in the court set up. So. the this one. I mean. Clansman I think was really never more than a novelty like some people enjoy that tribal thing I liked travel stuff. Don't get me wrong but a- as far as kind of. Different aspects of character I think Tyrian was a failure on that front. I disagree with you I think when you take Metro, we knew resolve Tyrian Lancaster in a clansman deck and he does his clansmen thing. I think he's really powerful and really fun. I think he he is always worth looking at the clansman cards and that's what I think. You want from a card like this Tyrian Tyrian, always saying to you. Usually, Oh, a clansman car was printed. Does this Tyrian? Does this get better. But the kinds of cards never got there. Really you know outside of. Excuse me the W, this point. Infamous kitchen table clansmen. Tyrians falls I mean I think everything about this card you know really really reward you for playing clansmen but of course, the support cards do need to be there. And I just don't think that they got. They got there. Maybe if the game gone a little longer, maybe the south. Koreans. Maybe Hano will come up with. Some additional clansmen cards that will make this deteriorate more powerful but I think you're definitely right that the shadow of the five dropped tyrian. You know. HANGS OVER THIS CARD And declines were never good enough that. As a whole package that you know. You wouldn't necessarily play the five drop Tyrian but that was the problem the clan half of you have to judge this Syrian on the whole package because he he is so narrow is dedicated to that package and that is it. That's all he does I guess we're you and I are come from different perspectives I. Guess. I think that this car the clansman packets can suck, but this car could be good. If the class package wasn't din sucked. You know what I mean like I think the pay offs. Of of playing tyrian Lancer is strong enough that if the clansman package is there, he's worth playing, but it never got there. But there are like the drowned God was a great example of this builders was a great example of this where you know. I think. People mocked. Brandon's gift too much at the time they'll never printed builders, but the thing was that card is powerful enough that they print enough builders ethically builders you're gonNA WANNA cheap good builders. It's an amazing card. But without any good abilities garbage I mean and I think that. That's what this tyrian. is in the same space as gift because it's a very narrow card, but we really reward you for going all in on this thing, but is the theme there. When we talked about gift, didn't didn't both of us in the end come down on the side of like that's kind of bad design though to to be in that space where you have to wildly over correct in the future to make it useful. I'd have to go back and listen I, think we disagreed there because I'm definitely more sympathetic to cards that cause you to are powerful because you to distort your deck in a narrow way. Because I don't think gift is actually the problem. The problem will get to the boxes. Abandoned stronghold I think without abandoned stronghold builder's. kind of gets a lot worse. On, a power level. Like it can't win talent challenge on the pets without abandoned journal than Halder but anyway. There we can say that for the night's watch box but I definitely think. That's right. That's where I sort of sit on this Tyrian. Rather. Okay. Well, we may not get much further going round and round on the seven drops here. But should we consider the rest of the family since that was one of the other main selling points or did you have anything you really want to get on seven drops? No I think we're GONNA on seven drops. Do you really WanNa talk about? Like cer- Kevin. Lancaster the. Well I mean we don't have to go. Card by card about them, but again in a general sense. What do we think about the rest of the family I would say. Since you bring Kevin Up, he's just fine he he is markedly less useful than his first edition counterpart but that's I think more a function of the rest of the card pool and him just not having as many new tricks to work with. I think it's just that it's only Marshall Right like what made you? What made other cabinet associated versus? When he died to you got. Imagine. You know you could put Herron Hall to play when you marshalled him or even you could just do this you marshall. You. Kings road into play you use the kings ready to play something else he dies. You put another kings road into play, right? Like that would have been a really powerful game craig play loop with him but you can't obviously do that because he's only when he comes into play and I think that makes it. A lot worse. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and specifically only Marshall. So the other kind of cheap stuff into play not even discounting him leaving play dying or whatever. But the other into play cheating stuff lancaster paces Dez or sorry I never bet against my family herron all that type of stuff. Don't work with him. If you could cheat with those even without the leaves play, then you might might do more interesting things with him but yeah, definitely I think I mean in a world where. We probably are pretty happy that he can't do that. Thing up. Took a long time to get to that. But Herod, Hall. Right now I don't say this this card got North because of Heron, Hall. So yeah. They did we did we did not want you putting Herron hauling to play from the discard pile after a coupla up just just give it a cost restriction on Kevin Yeah. So. What else we got you know Jamie we've got land. So we've got a new Taiwan in here mean for the most part again, the rest of the Lancaster family I think take the the bottom end of the scale that they. They're all too conservative and very narrow in their scope. And Tie when and Jamie of course, need other cards the pool to really get there and. I don't think they've ever got type of. Novelty stuff when people want to make Taiwan work I had Taiwan is so close to being. SHAG CAR THE PERFECT SHAKA CARD Oh. Yeah. If it was. You always got to look at like want like it was. This is this is car that's phrased very much how the rule, the the rules lawyer of the time re like really like template cards. I really hate the temple any on this car I think if. We had gotten into a place where it was always you looked at one additional card whenever you pillage. So Or you discard top part of your opponent's deck so that if you discard three card, you looked at four or whatever. And you picked you know whatever the number of those was from that I. Think this Taiwan would be super sweet but the fact that it only works with exactly one card holds him back. In a way that. Just never quite there and that's so frustrating. Because I do think this is a really cool Taiwan I. think that like a Lancaster Jank. Jack like he is. He's just almost a card that actually makes me really sad. The HANO is redesigning a card pool cards like this to kind of give. them the game part of its charm, right? Because this is like weird and interesting. But not really ever like playable I'd like Jamie Slash. Spike high level competitive way but it should exist in Carpool because it just like you look at it and you just like want to do weird stuff with it. I wish it had been a little bit better templates you could do even weirder stuff. By the I think are success. I think this Taiwian is a really cool card and really successful on that level. While, the Jamie's a giant failure. Like nobody wants to play shaming. And when they do they realize he's not even fun like when you play him right when this Thailand goes off. It's fun right. Well, have you ever gotten this Taiwan d'Estaing It's super far right. During. No No. But we did devote a lot of time with big pile of king scarred came out in what the last cycle and then we realized that virtually none of it works Sir Interacts, with Jamie, where you chunk out like. What is this Jamie do like is just is one of the most poorly designed cards in the second edition Carpool like you so bad. Arguably it could have been. Okay. If the rest of the king's guard that were eventually released played with this same, you know, let's band together slivers type of effect. But none of them too. Well it's also like each night character you control gains around why attacking alone. which is like Oh. Okay and so so incidentally gives this. Sometimes. Yeah okay that that line of Texas find, it's this specific challenges action. Giving an injury icon to A. Kings King scarred character like a lot of the king's guard character and having intrigue icon. thematically make sense because like their jobs to protect the king and most of them aren't you know like good night's. WanNa get to them. Right they're more argument be made that all the king's skirts should probably be tricon except maybe the hound. I mean some of them shouldn't have power I country they actually shouldn't have power concerts since they're supposed to give up their claim to power they should be fighting for the king and protecting the king, right? Yes and no depends on your exact definition of power in in this representation I suppose. But like and it's only just like give kings character intrigue icon. So you're not playing the six cost six for five Jamie who does to challenges and has renown. On. One of those challenges. For the king's guard trae and the ability to give it intrigue I. To Kings Guard character. Four shrink. So he gets like draft like it's just. It's like such just a garbage cart. I will again. I'll spill the t a little bit about played testing. There was a version of Jamie that was super broken. Lasted very long into play testing process. And this, he had to be redesigned the bottom up and this is what the design team came up with and. They did not listen to feedback about how poorly this card was and definitely. Former fulltime white book co host, Aaron Glazer. Still is salty about how this JV turned out. Three or four years later I guess. Years later. Two Thousand Fifteen yeah, so Four or five years later. So it is. It is definitely I I. Honestly GonNa Stick is one of the worst design cards in in the entire Carpal Card Hano. Can Redesign nobody cares about this car there we go. It's definitely one of the most disappointing cards I will say without any qualms. Card that I find. Disappointing. That I was involved a lot in tweaking. Is Keep spy. Which I'll read because I don't know if it ever really saw play which three for three loyal Lancaster intrigue icon only ally spy ambush four after it keeps by just play easy ambush choose a character lower. If you have more cars hand in your characters controller, return it to its owners hand this really powerful and play testing. In originally didn't have the writer. Of If you have more cards in hand controller. At the time I think it was the right decision to put that writer on this card because of Orlando was but I think sitting here at the end of the game. I wish it didn't have that writer I. Think this is a really. Cool effect. I think it's a fair effect because it only works when aunt when when ambushed and I think four gold for mono, con at three strengths. Return print Koster lower character to your. To and and cool flexibility for your own characters. I think is super cool as well. So I think the describes a lot of play to it and I wish that we hadn't added that writer but I think there's a car that really does suffer for how overpowered Lancaster was for its first two years. And really damaged some of its design space for a while site I really wish read pizza, which is a little bit more push, but it couldn't be pushed in its historical context. I think red keeps by is definitely one of the cards I wanted to hit on. Out of this box for Kinda parallel reason, this is one of the best examples of a theme that. Is featured prominently on this card that doesn't stop here and is featured on a number of of Lancaster cards throughout the pool. That is I think. A poorly thought out theme. Because mechanically itself destructive every time you use this. Or something similar to this. It makes it harder and harder to use any of the other additional effects. And that. Just kind of snowballs into a lot of the Lancaster themes. What a What a means specifically here is this keys off of the The signifier or whatever the metric of having more cards in your hand than your opponent. Okay. Great. That makes sense for House that wants to really dedicated to discard and to to intrigue challenges in the like. So theoretically, you should have more cards in hand than your opponent, but but the problem is that this and others also return cards to your opponents hand, which then makes it harder for you to have more cards even if you discard for intrigue since you've returned something hand. And then discarded for instance will net. They're not down anything. In this time period and arguably still today Lena Stir does have some of the worst draw available to. Right, like this was a time period when Lancaster was still playing double-counting coppers because it was so starved for any other draw in time was making it a four gold plot. Let's not forget well. Right, right but what that means is it's even harder for Lancaster to really keep that hand advantage that they're generating through these entry challenges. Without even adding effects with this theme to it other houses as a as a general rule would outpace them on draw. Lancer just had to make like harder us out of the the beefier characters that it had, which don't get me wrong. It was doing a good job with but that meant that cards like. Totally like broke that loop such the like they never became effective because they destroy themselves it just. It's very weird. design, is you hear the that just makes me think this was not like fought through and compared to how this would work or interact with the rest of Lancaster's themes and pool, and again, this is not the only one. This is just a prime example it's prime example. I think the problem was it was a really. Good effect on Queen's assassin, right? because. That's a really powerful effect. Well, it doesn't return hand, right? But I think the problem was I wish more of these effects had been for some added spice. So of like red keep spy was return A- character with protocols to or lower if you have more cards in your hand opponent three cost, right if it was, you got an additional advantage for having more cards. You know what? I mean well, like I think that's where it should have been. It should have been like some spice to increase a good effect or okay effect but if you push. Autocracy deck you push intrigued Dak you play without his beard. You play these garbage cards you get this additional stuff but when you top deck which keeps by when you know your opponent when you've you know when you're behind It still playable card like that's the problem with of so many of these cards. And the effect on so many of them is not Quite assassin. Good right. Like queens assassin was extremely powerful and of course at and in many ways could was extremely powerful. Lancaster tradition. Up to presidents like he can really any new worlds earlier this year, it can really get people in narrow boards You know like a Lanny Wolfe style attrition deck of cards still does work but I think the design space of that is being the primary way you get the. You get the effect. There's not actually a lot of design space for all the reasons you said. So I do really wish that design had pushed it into more of a an additive effect verse where you kind of see that kind of effect in other card games it has to be you know if something's hard to pull off but it's a theme, you tend to make it. Added on right like you get to draw card. Play. This character get a card. If you have this, you get some you know you get a whole big thing. There's you know for example, there's a magic card that describes cards of your pun stack. If you kick it, you get to do half their deck instead right? Like that kind of effect right where where these things may get kick. It is pay an additional cost is kind of like Postel. You. Back kind of thing and I wish that was designed space that we'd figured out but we didn't. And Design and Definitely right. I think we can't escape some of this stuff without talking about Tina me meriwether who up with Halder is. One of the put a limit on it. Quote our friends at Banter. cards which she seems because of way in which. Events, you know they cost gold second edition. I, think everyone include myself as a play district believed that that was itself like a limiting factor. But I don't I don't I I mean I'll just say play dusters didn't appreciate that you could build a deck so all in on building of on on. On these on event effects and pay for event affects and one event you murdered her children, play multiples of them on someone that you could just turn to your deck so fast and so efficiently that she was dangerous. So she should definitely be like Max, one per phase or maps. They'll limit one per surveys limit twice around or whatever. But we can't escape without talking about her she is going to break the game open. She's going to be A. He piece of of Combo decks for. A good long while. of course, I at this point though I don't know what else to add to that analysis of her other than I suppose maybe she does also run into the other angle I was hinting at there previously with Lancaster that they continue to not actually get card. Advantage type of effects scar drawing the like right this. This is extremely good filter. But. They're not game cards so. Here's where I disagree with you. I think Looting. Right. This is looting which is draw card, and then discarded card I think is a great lancaster seem like I think that that is one of I. Think they'd I wish we had more like that like I think I mean ECON card is printed? I think that that's actually good space for Lancaster. So if you're not gonNA give Lancaster Card event like the best draw giving them the filter I, think. Is Pretty a pretty good replacement I think once they realized. That's what they're gonNA do and we see that towards the end of the game I think Glenn starts getting a little better. Yeah Later. I didn't necessarily mean that it's a bad theme. I was just going to say that that that's still kind of a hangover from I. Add Right Orleans did it all it had had the draw and the income and and so on. So you you can tell they are still trying to really watch that year and give them just hard court advantage. Is actually rummaging. I, think because you discount. Yeah Yeah, you're right looting discard after you draw. Anyway Anymore. Parts worth talking about before we get to the non cards. I mean Lena's Sport Guard. Kind of falls into that same. Eddie glassock. Card. It Yeah it's a neat concept, but it's another one of those ones where you are giving your opponent cards, which means that it's harder for you to keep more in your hand. So I liked the fact but in play, it doesn't quite work out. I've seen Tom Lucci play this card in tournament waiting Dachshund if the losers doing it that it's got to be a card. In some in some context. So as it was Egypt making friends by giving everybody a card because that's a great. No Jousting Atlantic cracking down. So. Just car it's. This is I mean I think I. Think we did a whole episode of talk where we talked about this card a lot right discard is really good if you have faith that your deck. Is better than your opponents deck and I definitely think there were times when Lancaster, you could truly believe lander player that talk to your deck was better than his apartment stack on the overwhelming majority of the time. The power level of your cards were there compared to theirs? Particularly if you behind, you were just much willing to see a new card and create a body. And that character. Pundit Especially at the time period, this came out at. They. Still had very good bang for their buck. By on. This. Yeah Oh. Jah failures of location spot. Lots of mountains of the moon, which is again, one of those cards that definitely makes you play last play Klansmen. You Go. Well Lancaster. DRAWCARD claims apply for entry challenge if you buy five or more strength draw two cards for God's status losing cards his or her hand in Saving Scheme Yup Yup. And yet. Never saw plan it never did which is interesting. I mean getting them down to know cards at all I. Mean it's very hard. So that point it's basically win my divert and pay one draw one card, which is not good return. Especially now, when you've got such a strong density of other threat cards that you could just be planning so that you could just have it in your hand instead of the insidious scheme hoping to draw the other card. Yeah I mean cards the. Cards that drawcards at a cost that don't provide an additional benefit tend to not be good at thrones. Right. So you know compare this to the car ended up getting restricted in stark that gives insight but also give stealth. I accept played against it so many times. I am no, I have no one right I. Have No one is a card that requires you to shoot draw cards, but it provides some way for you to do that. It also makes them not kneel to attack. Yes, we bright. It does a lot that one. Trying to think of other cards. But that kind of card can see play. And then of course, just cars is draw a card like. Dorin. Martell one call secret. Schemes. Secret schemes right. While nominally has some limit of the number of plots used pile. So it doesn't work like unlike term or whatever. But you can just draw the cards right I mean this card suffers from the fact that it just gives you no way for you to trigger it like. So you have to win by five to to to basically cycle it and Gough one card For cards if your. Hand then it's like really busted, but it's still. Behind it's not in a position to catch you up at all. Right would the way in which even I am no one if you draw, I, am no one in a character, the cost of your less. Maybe you maybe you can make it. I've actually seen that save. A save start crossing players right secret schemes is, of course, obviously a great car to draw when you're when you're behind. But discards not. It's just not none of Atlanta stir win more card. Even. If on the surface, it looks cool and has good art. Yeah. So you WanNa talk about the non stark or non excuse me Yeah the the Non Lancaster Guards. His is all good except her I think every faction has a good one except for Nice Watch. y'All have seen me I. Remember Even Seen Bridge of skull play and it definitely sees per in Malay. Yeah. It's still not that great. Well. Yeah, I mean I I'm not a big fan of. Watching mail anyway. But it's it's a thing. I mean. I Guess Trista would see Edrich staple bratty pro I mean I think he's still was in many breath index to the game. Disputed claim. Is. Also Pretty Stapley and then of course, became very strong in the Baruch Kodak Vic. Card. So busted that they could that they printed. Version of be that was more busted. I figured most of our non Lancaster talk would just be about, vic? I mean there's not a lot to say about vic he's busted. He's. Wildly efficient while we're talking about these character curves in with the latest stuff. We arguably should have been talking about Victorian packs so much in for that that really does he I mean the sad thing I mean it's just hard to remember how card this card was because his seven version has seen so much play. I mean I lost a lot of games to intimidate and run out. For a long time because if you don't remove him immediately, he's just never going to leave the board. I'm yeah. I mean could between his own save and What is it called risen? I remind which was like little. Like. I did beat this card though wants to win the largest ever one. So I was Happy to beat Mike Borough. At Winds of winter twenty, eighteen plane-builders. This Guy Victorian definitely does not like craven he really doesn't do. Raymond. But Yeah. Oldwick also, this is the drowned God staple. that. They had to fix. Tristan saw some play. He's one of the weaker cards. Definitely. interesting. You murdered children the Combo Card to end all Combo cards for that Hyper Viper Card. If. You've ever lost to like four thousand strength. My of the key Combo pieces in this box for the two different combos Yup. And then the terrible night's cards sweep Donald Hill, which was very strong play testing got nervous to. All Hell. And I think he was originally while he was standing. Each attacking character lost all keywords. So it's pretty brutal it was pretty. That way. Bridges Causes Garbage. Then I actually think the star cards are so well designed in this in this box. They're solid. Last. Concert is the best silver bullet ever put in there. Well, I was GONNA say the last house skirts wow. I can't talk last hearth scouts. There we go is a one of the cards here that stands out to me the most in the Non Lehner houses and the next one is literally the next card in the pack. So I'll come to him in a sack but Last hour scouts definitely kind of and went, but it was definitely a really well placed pressure valve kind of sleeping in waiting to come back in as soon as shadows made its. Reappearance in the game So despite hating played against it I, really like it isn't the Meta. It is a again the best silver bowl. It's not even syllables the best card in thrones. Yes. A four for four body. Is Fine like. It's like my dad, if you just need to top deck of character, this is a character with decent costin to strike ratio into odds. And just beat certain tax. Like just beat them. Up. To the point of the game ended like. And that was good like I. think that last Husker was as you said a good a good escape and it was you know play it was beatable. It was beatable as like a lanny shadows you could just valor it away right Yeah like or you could. Kill it with. The, kilkare right or Trish in through it or yeah. It's an eminent. It's a very fair. Hey Card like unlike exposed implicity or something, which you could just be you if gets twenty cards that are in shadows or whatever and. This one while definitely could beat you and I was definitely playing like. Particular flea bottom, we'll get to this. This was very brutal against bottom. It. Could it could could you know power level is exactly right I I this is probably up there as one of the best design cards I think. Might be. One of the best out of pure. Isn't the Best Design Card box? You might. It might be it's really close if it's not. Trying to think of what's better actually. Maybe. Forced looking at maybe. Maybe our last big range Casamayor. ocean road. Also up there I don't like design level. Yeah It's it's up there and Jane is also really good. I, think. She's a really well designed card as well. The Star cards are just. So wonderful. So, you want to say Nice things about Burston. I. Guess Sort of what I wanted to do was draw attention to A. In previous. The non. House, Cards. The other seven factions, not not necessarily neutral but the other seven faction cards. Have very clearly run counter to the themes of the main feature house, but the the Lancaster box here does shake that up some These are the only two that I would say are explicitly running counter to any lancaster themes. Honestly, even implicitly I don't I don't really think any of the others. Are particularly interacting with with lanny themes at all just these two here which I found interesting to see that kind of move to the wayside. I mean, I don't think. Yeah. I mean me kind of On Lancaster as kind of like if Lancaster's emptying your hand, he's good but I think he. Could, adjust. He definitely definitely runs counter to lanny's goal. He doesn't stop them from doing it or punish them from it, but he does give you a nice benefit if they've enacted their game plan. This card head renown in play testing for a long time we need. Yeah. which actually kind of. The kind of always. Kind of just made berry a little, just awkward you standing all the time. But. He's Doing a lot beside you. You play 'em with this. Jamie. So he's got renown and then you only challenge with this Berson and no no he doesn't even have the king's guard trade or Queen Guard traits you can't even get an injury guy caught. You can't do the entry just the Brennan. Yeah, he gets when attacking along with his four strength, right? Now standing when you win for. Great. Great. Great Card. Yeah. Yeah nearby, Barry he's. He's a solid solid card. So I guess the last one I mean like airy tyrel is a staple of tyrel. What are? The number of I think she was almost always in every tyrel deck I built for a long time. She's one of the most powerful search. Cards. and. then. I WanNa talk a little bit better I. Really. Really, wish that this car. There's a part of me that feels like this card should've seen way more play. It's it's just such good card selection it it didn't house. It's. Just, a wash in this election tax. If. That was in like Lancaster is that was just straight up Lancaster card I think it would have seen much more consistent play. I think if it said, it was I. Think I don't think I don't think it wouldn't chapman challenges I think it's because it's an action. I don't know in the challenges when you're looking at Laney with a bunch of ambush and and or hair hall. Now Lions Star type effects. I could definitely see myself digging three cards down to find somebody to drop into challenges. That's proven incorrect because lanny rose was a competitive type for a long time and did not play this car. Like Jim made public. made it. Really well known in yourself to the lanny or sorry to the tyrel banner, which I think does change the makeup of the deck. If this was just a hard latest or card and I'm not already dropping twelve slots on tyrel stuff I think that changes some of my debt construction math made easy but I think were there twelve? Tarot cards you were thirsty to play in that deck and China remember definitely. No, I just made. The commitment to twelve is pushing out other stuff. If I WANNA play this now than I have to do lanny rose, which means I'm devoting twelve cards of my deck to this. If it was a hard landing card, I'm devoting three cards to it. That's fair. I'm just more thinking. Gee I. was just trying to think what? TYREL cards. Did you WANNA play in the neck you definitely want to play. Stanley Randy. Friendly's ride. The Night of flowers. Nine. What were the other ones? Maybe left and right they're not loyal right They are not. Maybe, it was left and right. Who I'm not sure try to remember I don't remember what Fedex package of Tarot cards was but. Anyway I. Just this is a card that always struck me as like. It should be better than it is it's because it's the challenge action I think. Because that's like a long time to wait to use the car unless you specifically hit an event or an ambush character. Or, your Combo and you can afford to wait to turn. This is like a marshalling action. It would be too good. Yeah. It'll be real. Good. Now. Maybe. This is too dangerous to be good probably. I'm anything about the neutral cards that are not A. The reins. And I think everything else is pretty middling right? We get a couple other pressure valve cards like devout free rider we get some some. Okay if. Ding plots Another cars meddling I was gonna say we get another eventual Combo piece in little fingers Madelene. We get fairly stable income plot in time of plenty. And then the cool hard expected delay which ended up being much cooler than I thought the. This wa- mccart there's a car wanNA pushed hard in play testing and it ended up being cool and yeah. Fall Dak as a bad what was the came back in the in the PAC what was the name of the car similar effect to this? First Edition Oh searching detained, searching attain although the thing I hate about I expected delay is you so unintuitive with WHO's the first player like it stuff like that that I really tend not like. Like. That you can choose the same as just makes it worse if you're not I, just really don't like that specific thing I know some people do, but it just can get people in a way that I think can kinda be unfair just because they don't know the INS and outs of the rules perfectly. it does seem like the effects of this nature would probably have have been better to say on them like after the challenge faced begins the first player chooses a character without attachments or power Dan each. Other, player clockwise from there whatever I surely, there's something less wordy than the way I just like they have to pick different characters. Yeah. Like. So that, you don't get screwed and big can stuff but maybe that'd be too strong. I don't know. But I just yeah. It's just one of those things I don't like. Time. Plenty the theme a time of Plenty for the joke thanks Sean Emberley that I will live with forever Yeah I want affection for this card. And definitely do a lot of discussion. About the nature of card advantage card that is similar to maybe it was time plenty that we were. Talking about a lot instead of. A. Instead of the sport, guard? Guard. But we're getting along with this. So why don't we talk about rains? Sounds good. This was our. Was this our first new champion card in second. Just repent. I I was thinking so too. It was definitely the card tested in argued about the most. I could see that this definitely reads like one that began very ambitious and and had to kind of be. Massaged but didn't want to be massaged. Too far down and it definitely wasn't as we. But yes, it was much more power it. It was basically something like. A combination of. Rain as we know it with wars to come I guess you could say. Will there we go? Just, want. Originally, but it was a very, very powerful. But it ended up in I think a place that. This is I. Think what the? Classic. Mid Range Agenda for a long time Oh. Yeah. For a long time like once it was printed it was lancaster than gray joy. Then night's watch trying to think about other decks. The great joy was the thing Gregory rains. I think. I mean I think it showed end up showing that I think where we wanted this to be was you like really go? All in. On this effect, but to really build your deck around getting this off. And that initially, some of those rains decks were that, but then they realized that it's just. A. dish. Inal challenge phase interaction right. versus something you really build your deck around and that's where you see the great joy and the night's Watch Ranger Katherine Lancaster because they have so many good green icons kind of never fully got away from that but that was a bit more incidental. That it could consistently do that. But for the other factions stark rains for example, is another one member start brings Combo. I do I played that. A Had forgotten about that that was sweet cat combos start graves. Good. It just incidentally played rains right? Attempts to make it like a real intrigued act like Lancaster decks that went all in on or Martell rains kind of always floated around that a little bit too much like focused on that instead of just viewing this as a form of challenge phase interaction that you didn't need spend. Draw. DECK SPOTS ON. That's where greater rains that's where nightwatch rains that's where stark rains really came in and showed the power of this agenda as the ultimate region. Besides, I guess wars wars just the ultimate agenda. The ultimate. Yeah. one thing I really liked about this agenda Especially thinking about what it was like when this box was released is I think a lot of us were kind of down on agendas in second edition that they had seemed really kind of tame straightforward kind of color by numbers not affects that really shook up a a design or showed what you could do with that sort of space and then Bam rain dropped on us and I think one hundred percent did that. Blew up a lot of expectations of how agendas could function i. mean this was even very different effect in comparison to what agendas did in first addition So this this really I think caused a lot of people look at the game and what was possible and decks in a new light and I really liked that. Yeah absolutely I mean we're sweet summer children though because like Lord of the crossing sitting there telling us that. It's the best in a Powell is the agenda ever printed besides wars? I mean we got like remove wars from consideration I guess sleazy a blood too. But what does he blake rains customer? is to blame foreseeable. We'll get to that in a second. But. Yeah I agree with you I. Think it did this did have an effective freshman it up. A Lot. I think. Some of the problems that Raines had without me getting like really going after this agenda because I've said some really nice things about it but I also want to go after it for some bad things that did to the game I think some things that army. Schemes never really got broad enough for rain to be interesting. like when this was first printed like rain 's. Dick Except Lancaster because it got the extra one because its plot with both of its plot schemes. Now, just just as one of the first second was a scheme. I. Think the only other faction that had that was tyrel right was. Tie Rows also scheme. I, believe. So yes. So every other rains Dak had the same plots and that was really dull. And I mean the fact that there are some plots, it never laughed Raines is kind of a failure of the. Carpool. That it's kind of stupid like be honest like there was definitely. Rains, got so good for so long that they got scared to print good schemes. Which is kind of funny I mean it's a classic thrones designed trap right And that kind of held rains back for a while, and then towards the end, they started printing some coal schemes and rains interesting again. But I, think that's problem. Things I really hate about Raines. Is I will not be an episode without complaining about one challenge. ICON. Affects. Particularly ones that can really swing a game. This is just a more polite version of Sea of blood. There were definitely times that you played certain, DAX? And you just had five intrigue icons in the deck and not because you didn't want intrigue icons in your deck but because you're faction had five intrigue icons that were playable. And if you draw one of those five intrigue icons. In the first Turner to. Raines player got to do whatever the heck they want it. And that was really frustrating. That was really frustrating play experience. And then even if you did draw one but they were playing tyrian. And they could sell pasture one intrigue. ICON. There was nothing you can do about that and let it a lot of really interactive games where the interaction was entirely on one side and it was the reins player being able to leverage the fact that they have more green icons and you to just get to just snowball in that same lancaster effect that could happen with. Put to the sword later. See a blood. And then this plot or this agenda is also responsible for Danny getting in his brain that he needed to do a cycle of these agendas where each. Challenge, type got. Out of power level with rains of cashmere, and that gives us the absolute garbage to the Sea of blood. Up there with like shouldn't have been printed up there with wars. which doesn't have the excuse of being a champ lot champ plot for being too powerful the way which reigned in Moore's us, and of course, the fact that. The president was promised is the most balanced of the three. I guess rains at this point. But. The fact is the one that had the biggest least impact and still dominated entire summer of competitive play or plus right that was gen con. Last year was the great prince decks. was, the one that Tom won be Dan in the finals. Okay couldn't remember nine, hundred eighteen now. No eighteen year of. Mace. Oh Okay yes. Yes. That was my bachelor party and we all played the whole answers. And nineteen was you're my weddings? We didn't have the money to go to Jan.. Twenty. Twenty Jenkin. Happened Online. The feels like a long time ago twenty eighteen. But It was not. That, long ago that. That's a huge problem. And I think that. I really beg whoever the design team is this Hano or the South Koreans or Any. Meta that wants to make their own hearts. Please be careful when printing these mono colored effects. These motto. ICON, effects their extremely sweetie. They lead to really on Interactive Games and the harder you push the more likely you are to break the game. Rains of cast Amir broke the game it ended up being fixable. See a blood broke the game. It wasn't a fixable like you had to be banned basically. You know. There's a reason why it was a mirror at the last worlds and I still. That was coming for and there were decent answers to the deck in that room. But st obliged was still able to battle through and have a mirror that finals despite the fact that everybody painting a target. On the tried but gosh and I may be my memory may be betraying me but at the time didn't we kind look at Everybody's matchups in the the final decks had not been just slammed by tech matchup's in the in the run to the finals. It didn't and also the mummers plus Francis the kind of. I mean, it was really impressive what Alex and Francis in t and did. Where they tacked that deck to be able to valor itself, turn one and not lose. Was Really smart like it was I think one of the most brilliant deck building decisions that section never saw. Bakassi let them for example, Nice Watch flair, and steal if you set up. What's his name cloudiness? You beat see a blood, right? They couldn't get any get anything off for the first couple of turns right as long as you said, Clyde us and like one other character up nightwatch flaring steel ran over see a blood. But if they could just valor Clyde his way and not set themselves criminally behind. Whatever you win? That's how I saw the happened multiple I happen to me. It happened to many other nights players, other people who were just not expecting a turn one valor adept. That's built to turn one dollar. Is really rare and it's not something you learned to play around. Right? Like. Oh, not at all. And the fact that they were able to do that was really smart and was something they were prepared to do and they ready to do. They were practiced to do and that's where they ended up both ended up in the files they deserved it. But I think that see a blood. Effects like that are really powerful rains customers an example of it like we have to remember how dominant it was laney rains major rains. A Nice Watch rains and the fact that trains remained a good deck for a long time. Even when builders was around shows you again, the power graduate rains was until they played in principle promise. Great Joy rain was always up there as powerful. Great Joy Dak I mean it was but in a lot of ways didn't it just switch to rains after wars was restricted. Yeah. Yeah. I mean again I mean Lord I I think some of that particular lead the great joy example has to do more with the Great Joy card pool than rains south. Now yes. Because great joy. Doesn't have a huge amount of challenge phase interaction. The complaint naturally, that's why I love seeing blood to. Right. So the fact that it. Gets. You know the fact that you know first off, you have Taiwian who that's I'm sorry you're on who is your strength intrigue icon with renowned then you have a big. WHO's a intrigue big inching icon with Stealth? Right those who remarkably could carry you pretty far and the thing is great. Joy frequently only needed one rains trigger right to get them back in the game or to close a game. Right the ability to like. OUGHTA. STEALTHIER INTRIGUE ICON SLIP into wildfire, you go down to three characters they're smaller than my characters. I have. The victim, this box something else now I go into a military vic neal's your power you're icon. So you can't hit crack me back and then I went to power challenge off you and that's the game is flipped right because you did abroad wide board to keep up with my tall characters will now they're all gone right stuff like that or God help you when they flipped into rent wedding on you and then suddenly you know Vic's coming at you and intimidating one character while killing you out God Great joy wants that kind of challenge face interaction and that's what I think rains again, wide state. So powerful is it offered. Challenge. Phase interaction at no draw deck cost. You have anything more you WANNA say about it will. Now I mean I think we we've really. Ranged pretty far and wide. Both on raise cast mirror and on the the box as a whole. I think we covered a lot of ground. Go. As I think we did a lot of Yeah. I might say we mom trying to with a pun but I can't I can't. I can't come up with. Dang Yeah give me a general category. I'm raining on my own parade here. Oh well done real. I'd get there. I knew I'd get there. Yeah. Thank. You. was that an zone will. That was better than the danger zone. I how well okay. Was It as good as Kenichi you, bitches. Nothing will ever be that. Good. so Not. That he's listened to this at all Oh God. No. I'm willing to bet on that without telling him to listen to this. There's like less than five percent chance that Kyle will listen to this on I will want up you to that it or up you on that it probably only goes up to five percent if I tell him to listen to it. Maybe, if you tell Danny to tell him to do it then maybe. there. That is far more likely to get done. So yeah, and then you tell Santana do it. Then he's getting it from two different angles. Three different angles than you know just like a thirty five percent do yeah which really that's that's as good as we could ever hope for. New. To. One. He was more interested in the pair of the came behind him. The Queen's brothers the Lancasters of Castro rock the lion and the IMP there were no, there was no. Keep that. All right I'm. All right. Three. To. One.

Lancaster Sir Jamie Lancaster Taiwan Tyrian Tyrian Danny Sursee Lions Taiwian Atlanta Halder Tyrian Lancaster facebook Kevin Yeah Tyrian Thailand Lancaster Jank Lebron White Book Art Dr Martin
Little Happier: Winston Churchill and Game of Thrones Illustrate the Same Observation About Power

Happier with Gretchen Rubin

05:19 min | 2 years ago

Little Happier: Winston Churchill and Game of Thrones Illustrate the Same Observation About Power

"Honest has been on a mission for more than two decades to create and promote great tasting healthy organic beverages from tease juice lemonade. They're delicious refreshing and certified organic for every fair trade certified honest products sold called the producer earns an additional amount of money that goes into a community development fund origin from there a committee of farmers decides together how to spend their funds to improve their lives. The premium spun things like bikes clean water schools healthcare and vital title farming equipment visit honest cheat dot com slash podcast to learn more about honest and how your small decision has a big impact. That's H.. O. N. E. S. T. T.. A DOT com slash podcast to learn more about honest. I'm Gretchen Rubin and this is a little happier lately. I've been thinking about two things I I've been thinking about game of thrones because that hit H._B._O.. TV series recently aired its final episode and I've also been thinking about Winston Churchill because I finally gone back to record the audio book of My short unconventional biography forty ways to look at Winston Churchill. What a enjoy it was to revisit that project? I loved writing that book so much I love thinking about Winston Churchill and both these preoccupations game of thrones and Winston Churchill collided in my mind as I was reading the book into the microphone. Found there's a scene I love in game of thrones and there are spoilers to come so beware. I'm it is the absolutely extraordinary scene where lady Olenin tyrel one of my very favorite characters is waiting in a tower. I commander Jamie Lancaster. Alana's forces have just been defeated in battle and she knows the Jamie will execute her during this encounter which he does lady alanna is the head of House Tyrell and she's a person of great power accrual sharp witted farsighted women and she uses this opportunity to have an exceptionally candid conversation before her death with Jamie about sursee sursee lancaster his cruel power-mad format sister and lover who is now queen of West Tros. I'll post a link to the entire seven minutes scene but here's the part of the conversation that got me thinking during my churchill recording it's what A. Lenna says to Jamie rape before. or he hands her the poisoned goblet of wine. I did unspeakable things to protect my family or watch them being dumb on my orders. I never lost night's sleep type of with them. They were necessary and whatever I imagine necessary for the safety of House Tyrell I did but your sister has done things. I imagine that was my prize mistake a failure of imagination now. That's the game of thrones side on the Churchill side as I was recording the book forty ways to look at. Winston Churchill I read this passage where I wrote in one thousand nine hundred forty instead of continuing to push Lord Halifax to succeed him in the role of Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain turn to Churchill y Chamberlain prided himself that he was realistic business like with a passionate dedication to peace he had all these qualities and these identical defects with his narrow prosaic mind and in his Vanity Chamberlain simply couldn't comprehend Hitler even as of September thirtieth nineteen forty. He complained in a letter to the king. Saying that his failed attempts to avoid war what might well have succeeded if they had not come up against the in satiate and inhuman ambitions of a fanatic close quote wasn't that the point of all who criticized is to Chamberlain's policy that he'd persisted in his appeasement policy with utter disregard for Hitler's obvious nature perhaps at long last chamberlain grasped that his virtues use which were also Halifax's. We're out of season and then it was Churchill who possess the necessary qualities of imagination and stomach for war. I was struck by how the two examples illustrated the same point. Every strength has its weakness. Every capacity has its limitations sometimes those who love order and have a traditional understanding of the proper limits.

Winston Churchill Jamie Lancaster Prime Minister Neville Chamber House Tyrell Gretchen Rubin producer alanna Lord Halifax Hitler O. N. E. S. T. T Alana commander A. Lenna rape West Tros seven minutes two decades
The White Book S12E7 457

The White Book

1:59:49 hr | 3 months ago

The White Book S12E7 457

"I don't even know who my mother was. John said some woman no doubt most of them. Are you favorite. John with a rueful grin. Remember this boy all doors maybe bastards yet not all bastards need beat dwarves and with that he turned sauntered back into the feast whistling into when he opened the door the light from within through his shadow clear across the yard and for just a moment tyrian. Lancaster stood tall as a king. Welcome to the white book. Podcast the original egging l. g. podcast originally founded in two thousand two camps trump. We decided to rebrand the leave relaunched. Second a huge. Thank you goes out to benghazi quite means you're dr martin and his game world we love and of course to my co hosts you listening please. If you enjoy the show leave us a review on level choice comment facebook threads or even better support. Adriaan will be turning that support backing to than this is season. Twelve of the white book podcast All the way back. Second john chapter. Maybe the first john chapter it's drawn one. Yeah i figured if we were reminiscent for the show we might as well reminisce for the quotes And weirdly enough. I don't even remember weirdly. Been doing the show for on free in years. I guess is not that weird. That i do not remember using this folk before but honestly i don't so it's not like i mean it's a relatively famous quote i guess like but it's not you know those early chapters of a game of thrones people tend to forget i mean partially because the characters were not really the characters they would become later like martin. You know the kind of Writer who tends to figure characters on the fly like characters tend to sharpen and get better as they make more appearances in future years. He's a gardener. I believe he has said as of his writing styles so people places plots tend to grow and change yes and growing grow so You know like even by the tyrian is i. John are much different characters. By the end of game of thrones but not really through character development per se but more like martinus found their voice by. Yeah and then then they change a lot more in the second book when the character moment kicks in but anyway it's been a long time sight. Read the novels at this point. So oh agreed. I think i reread win. Dance came out. And i think that's the last. I've touched the original series now at them in Is that six years now. Said routine for a while. I was doing like like in a lull in what i wanted to listen to podcasts. Wiser audiobook wise. I would listen to audiobooks once a year. Just sort of like idly while doing chores and stuff. But i haven't done that since the show. Actually he really says the show and it's sort of this show made some creative choices in tardily agree with at my phantom slowly the members of my phantom hardcore song of ice and fire fans of you know where slowly term looking for allowed to burn themselves out. Yeah i just made a terrible mistake of going to look the the the time span on these books now has has reached a point where they beggar human comprehension. It was not twenty fifteen which or thirteen was. Six years sounded forever. Thirteen would be eight years. Which sounds like forever. but it's even further even further. It was july twelve twenty e levin. L have is that early. we're we're like we're like four months. Shy of a full decade ad actually makes sense now. I place it in my life. Twenty thirteen i would have been. That makes more sense. 'cause 'cause i really got into the books in twenty ten in preparation for the show i heard like oh i'll watch this show. Sounds kind of interesting. I'll i'll i'll read these books. And then i kinda fell in love with the series and then the rest was a guest ten years of a heart part of the phantom five of which was spent as a very active member of the those cartoon community so well enough reminiscent got is weird to think that this summer will be ten years since that book came out. But i know I mean to be fair. That feels how long. We've been in lockdown in the united states so Feel more like twenty years ago. We're also sweet summer children into in two thousand nineteen but anyway we are back right This is only the second or third time. We've done this twenty twenty one. I think just the second day. I had some some family stuff. Come up and then had the interview with egg. And our normal all rotation with props and slops on also yet. I think this is only our second absolutely end. I think it's pretty fitting cycle. It's one of the it's the final cycle Of that covers a book that claims that it is adapting book. It's a this. Is the shadows cycle which just double check what it's called. It's called dance of shadows and it adapts a dance dragons So the so. The second shadow cycle did not claimed like they weren't claiming the first one was like the first half the book and the second one was the second half or anything. Okay now they claimed that they were gonna start interpreting the themes of the characters and world sort of like kind of how second edition was for much of its light on all of its life right. None of the. I mean sorry. Excuse me yeah. I never claimed to be adapting any of the books. Right like is this the. Cg did right loosely. I think for for the first several sets and then it also went into well. We're gonna actually if i remember right. It wound up kind of wandering around and saying well we're going to reinterpret some of our early sets and this that and the other it kind of became so reflective rather than mullen too hard on the the themes of the characters and such from the books i mean game of thrones the card game whether it was living collectible or dead is a very self reflective game and this is a very self reflective cycle probably not as much as the next shadow cycle Is but it is definitely very reflective and very influenced by i largely because of the presence of its defining mechanic. Shadows are second new mechanic to be edited right. Second new keyword mechanic since the core set right bestow but there are other mike. The loyalty stuff was like the second cycle is based on was kind of. It was a mechanic right but it wasn't. Yeah but how new was that wind loyalty existed in the core set and like just kinda knobs on existing stuff. I don't know maybe that's a weird different debate to get into the moment. Yeah so. I think a good place to start would be neat. Shadows was would you save to say the most popular second Excuse me I keep some in my brain thinking about the c. C. g. with all of alex's posts about like a part of me that thinks of first editions can second edition in some way but First edition of the l. cg Would you say. The child was the most popular mechanic. I think so. Right as far as i think both Kind of fun reception and competitive. Staying power i think so i mean how hard shadows dak or sorry. How hard decks leaned into shadows was not always consistent. But there were a smattering of shadows. Cards in most factions. That you know might see at least a one x play here in there so they would regularly pop up in games and all the way basically from from shadows inception in in. I said all the way to that final world championship. There were strong very dedicated. Shadows theme dax. I was playing one myself. So yeah yeah. I agree with you. Yeah i i think we'll what is it worth exploring because one of the things that's important to understand about the reception of shadows end. The design of shadows inside condition. Is how shadows platon first edition. So we'll for our listeners. How did shadows playing for citizen. It was similar in a lot of regards. So you would pay to gold to place a card from your hand in two shadows Which would be an out of play a zone that was not affected by any cards in play at all unless they specifically referenced it. It was denoted by special crest. Which i don't think we've hit on crests particularly hard on the show in the past. Basically it was kind of a supercharged traits. Not really worth knowing much about. Yeah yeah effectively. It was an extra little icon on the card that did nothing unless another card referenced. It much like traits. Do nothing less a different card. References it Regardless there was a specific crest for shadows you pay to put it in the shadows and then at at a later point in the game you could bring it out of shadows by paying the rest of what was in. It's a gold icon on the cost. So it denoted as s two or something. Meaning you could pay to the major differences being. You could only play those cards by putting them into shadows to start with and the time that you would bring them out later you can only bring them out at the start of a phase and only one per phase now obviously like with any card game there may be specific cards that their own ability would tweak that rule Near read comes to mind that would let you bring them out at different times but the The game rule level. That was how that worked. Yes the those are the two major differences Of course in second edition You could bring them out at any time. And you could marsh alum. Just just just to be explicit here. Marshall them for their traditional gold cost How do you think shadows comparison between the two overall. Well i think shadows. I think you have to be controversial. You know. I guess one more thing before i actually thought you. I want to give a little bit behind the scenes. This was the most requested return mechanic. Right as i say in the transition Rumors were that. It was tested as early as the lancaster box. The important thing also remember about i issued second edition is keyword mechanics transcended cycles so soon as they were introduced. Say inside a one. They were continued all the way until the end of the game and there was a belief that it would that shadows would operate similarly. It would be introduced. It is a complicated mechanic. Both the original version of it Infestation end in the condition. So there's some belief that you know maybe a year or two into the game it would be introduced on that ended up not happen. I i don't know the story of why it was not introduced earlier but It was rumored to have been tested. His earliest lancaster box But it was finally released here in the fifth chapter pack cycle and had very interesting reception among both longtime first addition starts and newer second player. So party think it landed well before you get too hard into that. I'm i'm may at least back up to what you're saying about it. Being tested early. And i would say there are probably two mechanics from all the wide. History of game of thrones at least mechanics. That were added later right. That weren't baked in parts at the beginning of the game like say plots or the different challenge types or whatever but additions to the game that were so incredibly nedley Particularly ones that. I thought for sure would just be baked into the initial two point. Oh rule set. That was the deadly keyword which we don't super have to go through other than it. It made cares a lot which felt very fitting and shadows which really kind of amped up that uncertainty surprise schemes and plots and stuff and I really thought those would be baked into secondhand from the core and obviously they weren't and not baking that in i think does skew some of that perception later on in a couple of different ways. Like like you said it is a complicated mechanic. So when you're adding a fairly complicated mechanic Frankly pretty light it up. Pretty late in the life cycle of the game There's some subset of players that will be unhappy about that Plus you also run into some issues with nostalgia not only The former first players who hold that direct nostalgia for it but then you also wind up with kind of too weird down line groups where you have the favorable seconded players who have picked up a positive. You know rose tinted glasses. Look from all of our stead players. And then this contrarian second ed player group which In retrospect probably should not surprise me but did surprise me during most of the main life of the game. So far That the that there was a vocal contingent of second only players. That were pretty hard core about this thing that you liked before like should be jettisoned like the like based on nothing other than it was from the old game so therefore it should not ever exist again. Fair to that subset will its frame. Those critics of which neither of us are members of maturing that it was more second. Edition is a different game than first edition and trying to shoehorn mechanics from first edition into second. Edition does more harm than good. I think is a is a is a kind of treating them on their own terms way of describing their point of view. Now i came a bit more sympathetic to that point of view as the game went along as to conditioner went along but i still didn't. I still don't agree with it. But i think that that's a little bit of a fair. More charitable reading of their twenty. That's fair. I probably was not i was letting my bias slide through but the the boiled down point of you know the that they felt that it did not have a place in second ad is for. Yeah so how would actually played out. I think in the end. I think i i will start by. I liked the mechanical tweaks that were made to it In that we allowed the cards to be marshalled natively if need be we kind of up to the individual shadow costs but allow them to be brought out of shadows basically during any action window. I like all of those changes in ina vacuum right there. They're all dynamic changes that increase your play pat like your options in play the different paths that you can take and i and i like that but i think in the end. It wound up disappointing. All of those demographics. I mentioned in my mind primarily for one particular reason But that may just be. Because i'm in that. That first demographic of the first ed players wanted it back in the i think by and large the shadows cards not that mechanic but the cards failed. Yes there are good. And they're strong ones but so much of the just treat shadows as a stapled on xtra not not as anything intrinsic to what they do and how they work You know kate case in point there being Scott goes right like extremely strong card has seen tons of play for years. Now at this point But why does it have shadows. Like there's maybe a vague nedley sense right because we have actually seen the island and we hear rumors about it in the books and all but it mechanically does nothing for any of the rest of the game text of the card And and that's common. That's easily half to three quarters of the shadows cards probably just have it stapled on for no particular reason i go. Some of the places you went will but not entirely. Because i think you have to separate the cards kind of into the shadows cards into three piles of carts and i think you you. I think cost cards like schedules are so loud. But in the meta They might overshadow the fact that actually most of the shadows cards that sock attended a play hadn't used the shadow zone a lot. Think about pincher powder right Think about What's other ones Everybody's least for nighttime marauders robert strong where's the where's the worse I mean i. I think you're being skewed by there. Being a a subset. Were strong enough to play. That did hold that pattern but that the majority of them were not strong enough and did not act on your mind. And i mean the ones that stand out to me are schedules in queens guard. Those are extremely loud loud loud cards that have shadows. I actually i saw some people do some tricky shit which shadows in queens guard like much more than schedules. I mean the number of people who. I don't think i ever seen this card put in the shadows before was redesigned by hano and friends That's i think maybe like wama wants. Put it into shadows because he was sure that his opponent was running political disaster and he was correct and then brought it out of shadows. Like i think that the only time. I've ever seen it in shadows but definitely those cards extremely loud and distorted the meta around themselves. I mean queens. Guard was influential up to the point up to the end of the game as a as a living c. T. but i'm trying to. I'm really i mean. Of course there's going to be other cards in the next cycle that we can talk more about but it's sort of in this set. The those are the two that i think saw a lot of competitive play and had like no use for the shadows. But there's also a ton of other ones that didn't see the play and didn't skewed perception. That have nothing really to do with shadows. Nefarious acolyte eight. The end of the crossroads glamour Let's see here. What else mechanically. This is tough When i did not have them all open in front of me beforehand. No problem of beneath the bridge of dream me. That's just a that's basically a piece of cardboard that you can. yeah yeah. I should've actually opened all of these up beforehand to really list all of them but the shadow city itself hard home. There's probably another night's watch one here. The top of the tonight's what's cards. Were hard home in debt. Dagger daggers in the dark. Also looks live usa shadows. Yeah i mean does it didn't happen. It could just be an event that costs too right but it didn't but it has to be in shadows right because all events after War which is one of the reasons why it never play right. It's an event the cost four. I i mean. That's that's like half the houses i i won't keep going through these right now but like there's a lot of these just never saw play because the card good to start with an shatters is just stapled to it and i guess i guess we're we're putting emphasis like emphasis on the pilot out the cards based on their level of competitive impact. And yes you're you're right. That a lot of space in here is taken up by these like incomplete shadow signs. I do think that they are generally bad. Shadows designs But i don't think that that is the core complaint that people had about shadows. I think it has to do with the shadows cards that did see play And a law end what makes shadows. I think the problem that shadows face is actually not a problem in this cycle so maybe it will be worth talking about. It's the final shadows agenda that creates this shadows package that is really doll and very homogeneous right like shadows dax at the end of when before the big ban hammer came down on the tyrel dak into lesser extent the lancaster deck but they never really quite like the ladder decked like kind of kept eeking across the line up to the redesigned point. If i remember like they're kept trying to be like whack it down. It's like we didn't do it or you didn't hit this one card. Like i don't know like twenty twenty. It feels like there were multiple attempts to rein in the lancaster kingdom shadows deck in never quite got there of like getting into power level. that people would People would find acceptable but that homogeneous shadows package. You're always playing against the same twelve to twenty cards no matter what. You're pundits factor card is. It's just what the enabler is is the biggest mistake of shadows. I think the fact that i the thing. I love most about shadows. The second edition is that it's all about it. Plays off a group of players who i am one of them who love bringing cards out of different zones and putting them back right so you bring out of shadows it does something cool you put it back in the shadows. You do something cool with it again. And there's this constant moving from zone a zone be zone see back and forth back and forth. What like. I was drawn to drown god for for a long time. Sit like loud you to play with. His zone didn't usually get played with just cards with their. And you never thought about the problem with shadows. Card designs is that all the factions that saw competitive play shadows as a theme until dragon pit at the end so two out of the three major factions. That saw shadows dax tyrel and land mortell to a lesser extent. Although there were only about that that was the only way to build a shadow stick that was competitively. Successful was a deck that is about moving these twenty different shadows cards into the different zones. And that was. I think a huge mistake the fact that the payoffs for both lancaster and tyrel which are the two most powerful shadows factions are all about bringing cars out of shadows in finding ways to recycle cards back into shadows so that you could bring more cars out of shadows and get rewarded is was just a huge designed mistake because it creates Just repetitive gameplay. No matter how like there's no estate it was sort of like are you gonna be. Are you going to be busted and lose to. What's the lancaster. One called bows of castle. Hurok or you're going to get like out valued in how drawn because your opponent is abusing What's the attachment attachment Detachments in the next set But the attachment That comes out in the next set like that. I think was the biggest mistake about shadows in second edition. I mean to some extent. Isn't that what. I said like shadows dex. Were doing aside again from pit. The one to build up cards and shadows wasn't all the like preston greenfield and aguirre read powered stuff just all about like bringing things in and out of shadows to get a bunch of triggers. I mean there's also the lancaster Was the strength pump. One that was out. You're right ingrain are now now. I just want to call it. Bowels of castro iraq as well. But it's not easy. It was just casserly. Rock wasn't cash. Play racket lives maybe it. It was basically the inverse of dragon. Pit keeps some stuff into shadows to give your guys strength boosts and there was a lot of interesting tension right with that deck right where you had to powerful shadows fragile in to bring out but that if you did that that could be vulnerable and then it had like some very interesting interaction with dragon pit and where they had this kind of like a moon and tied relationship. Where when one you know one went up one the other one out and then when the other went down the other one came in. Or whenever i don't think the fourth and i'm trying to say i know what you mean. Yeah there was a tied back and forth the as they were trying to find their balancing point against each other. I guess for me. I agree with you like i think. Shadows is a fundamentally busted and a lot of the first edition of politics. And i spent a lot of time talking to them like erin glazer johnny right about first edition. Shadows forget just how busted or the idealized busted. Shadows wasn't precision right. Like as you just said there's a card pressing ability to all this. Yes they printed one of the most broken neutral hard draw into shadows which was Jamie lancaster who lets you drop your cards. There's some really powerful obnoxious designs and shadows on first edition and second has those too. But i think what separates them is. There was like four different types of shadows. Stacks there were like. The murray dexter had like one or two shadows cards that you. Sometimes you always want miracle. She was broken. And then also the start aria but you know they use a little bit of shadows then. There was the abuse the shadows mechanic folks and then there was the you know how how many cards are shadows to get some kind of benefit. There was sort of like different ways. You could play shadows and there were definitely cards that you hadn't in a across the board that were that were shared jamie lancaster being one of them. But there's at least some multiple ways of seeing it right so like pit and bowels or whatever it was called and amir redact play differently even though they all use shadows cars right. That's not the case with the shadows decks second edition and i think that. That's one of the biggest arguments against it. Even if i fundamentally enjoy the play pattern of the shadow stacks like. I really enjoyed them. Like some of the most fun i had in the later. Part of that condition was playing tyrel. Lancaster shadows at pins. I enjoyed playing red cards in second edition But that's sort of my rant about that. Counterpoint will actually you know. I'm not even sure if it's a counterpoint. Or if it does kind of connect to Maybe a broader point That encompasses both that in what i was saying about. The effect being disabled on is that. I think maybe not enough time was spent Behind the scenes really trying to grasp the implications for this type of mechanic in the game not only from the perspective like i said of frequently just being stapled onto a card that would have otherwise worked perfectly fine else you know elsewise without it But also like you were saying with The playable shadows cards that we did get that really interacted with shadows at being. Only this one narrow sliver of that space versus at least i had having a wider range of those that that did sometimes four play patterns that were intention with each other. The didn't show up here in second edition. So maybe maybe that's the the broader failing here is that it was so kind of zoomed in and not not enough of broad. Look at how to make this stuff interact and have tensions in different directions. Yeah and i think there's also a lot. There's a lot of like caution in In the designs. And i think that's where it particularly in the cycle. I think it's the second cycle. There's so much more aggressive shadows designs and we'll see what the repetitive Events but in this cycle that's where i think a lot of your complaints about glamour or or sky those being the best. These competitive cars sky goes in queens guard. The best competitive example so most of our listeners should be familiar with them as having to read any cards. Like danny was clearly afraid that you know shadows wooden land and so he wanted to make the car enough of the cards playable. That shadows as a mechanic didn't work out. You didn't have a cycle. That was seventy five percent unplayable carts right and that leads to really cautious designs and where shadows is just sort of awkwardly stapled on that ended up not being the case i think. Also a problem is Danny chose to push control as one of the primary like ways. You play shadows Which you know was also like it was a control sort of theme in in in in first edition somewhat. Right there were there. Were some shadows control cards right but there are also some aggressive shadows carts rate like Serio comes to mind right. The one that kind of shadows and had stealth repacking if you want to challenge. There's a whole rush deck that he powered right. Yeah but there's no diversity of like some of the best control cards that were printed in like two cycles were printed in to only really usable shadows tax so again that adds two additional things. So you have Shadows dax all playing the same really no matter what color they are and then also them having basically the same like somewhere a little bit more red mid range like one was even a little bit more mid range than the last one but they were still fundamentally like very controlling using shadows to recoup the tempo loss right. That's kind of where you would sort of build up all back tempo and then slam your and then flip the game and slam your opponent down just being with the shadows cards coming in and out of out of out of different zones but that was sort of the only way you play against. It wasn't like oh you know. Maybe i will play the tyro player. Who's playing this really fast deck except until the combo that comes out i guess but that's a whole that's a whole different thing and i think that that is a problem and again it's really becomes a problem in the second cycle with With the shadows agenda. That's in that cycle. So i think maybe we will bracket for fuller discussion. Then 'cause sparrows. I believe is also in that cycle right. Yes it is. yeah I want to say that To sort of begin to transition away from shadows. I think that the single best shadows designed in this cycle is assault from the shadows because it also solves a problem of shadows as mechanic where it's mechanics like this where there's only a certain number of ever playable shadows cards so generally speaking the best players will always no one or two of the cards and it's highly likely to be right If you're in some cases for star is literally one playable shadows cars you know and then for great joy. There's like two. Is that nightime marauders. Or is it. What's her name Higgins daughter right like one of those two fifty fifty like. Do i lose to nighttime. Rogers here or is my opponent. Just gonna al. Value me with a higgins daughter out But soften the shadows means that literally any card in your opponents deck can become a shadows card is really cool and it is. I think one of the best agenda designs in second edition so super super super wall done by zeus. It's at a good power level. It never became overpowered Agenda it's Really there's some really cool self shadows dax. That was thinking of there is the start one that i'm i'm really gonna talk about northeast shape tour stuff here so i apologize. I'm sure euros that they will say well. This more famous european than my friends in did the first. But chris really cool assault from shadows dak where he was pulling wards and all kinds of nonsense out of shadows and of course Friend of the show. My good friend in yours kershaw dignity topic saturday with really cool. Tyrel showed assault from the channels. That lance is built. That was a lot of fun to play. Glazer made the top eight in that same tournament plane target version of that where he and i played with our best games against each other Playing a play against him against that deck Soften shadows is. I think an s tier design. I think it is and this had been. They never printed alliance or whatever it's called Kingdom shadows banner of the shadows. I think shadows would've been in a much cooler. I mean yeah. I mean we can get to this later with banner of the shadows as far as my my thoughts there Yeah otherwise. i'm. I'm about to wonder down that road but no i agree. That assault was a really interesting way to frontload that ability to to get people used to to get shadows as a concept out and competitive quickly in an interesting way I mean yes astute. Listeners may note that using a assault from the shadows on you know most cards really just amounts to what i was just complaining about right you to stapling shadows on some random card that works without it but i am gonna leave myself a little bit of wiggle room out here in the these are cards that were not printed and designed with shadows and existence right so this is a new space for them The does enable some interesting plays that Would not be possible. Otherwise like a mid challenge ward For instance has roy. Wood was talking a moment ago. and and things like that that does actually open new space. that was not previously applicable My my problem is the cards that were created with shadows of existence. That don't utilize it in an interesting way. Giving every cardi your deck. The possibility being ambushed axe right. Just fundamentally cool things right like most cards. Not designed that way. Like let's forget the econ- play right. Put a rose row you because this just the martian action if you were sucking player you know you're ponant counselor. Goal takes action. Your first action put arose road into shadows. They take action second action. Pop that road out. And you've got an econ value in a way to couldn't before right and you gave a boring limited card and it doesn't even count against your limited right because shadows. That's the big thing like it's there's so many cool things you can do with assault lots of obnoxious things you can do with the salt ward or you know middle of the challenges phase. Randy right is extremely obnoxious. But you know that the fact that that look like literally it could be any card and a bunch of different reasons. Why certain cards will be put into shadows at certain times by your opponent is really cool right like they could buff. There's opportunity to bluff right like y'all just put this spare copy of this that i'd have no plan this turn to bring shadows but who could that be a ramsey award have four gold Lots of cool stuff and it. Also it also does a really cool on a design level in the set it does a good job of sort of propping up shadows like there's not enough shadows cards in this. There can't be in the size of f g sets for shadows to really be as interesting. It really needs to be to be fun and this again. Basically the fact they can give every card in a deck. Shadows acts really opens up the space for the four for the keyword to really shy. And i think you did a good job. I think four that. I say six months were assault was kind of top end of the power level. There was some of course Tyrel lion dax and lancaster rose dak several floating around I think that shadows was in our really really good spot And was very very enjoyable. Want to talk about the two other. Agendas i think might be. Yep that's that is exactly what i was about to ask if we rotate a move onto them. I mean i think maybe after this deep talk about shadows maybe we start with the fluffier of the two of these free folk and my fluffy. I mean the he like brutal knife that people will attempt to shanke with very quickly And schenken shake and shake It's it is interesting space. I think to go into as far as the only neutral stuff to make this kind of a banner of the wildlands sort of more neutral faction card. Yeh i mean but you didn't need a a wild lean for the The actual reaction ability. So it's it's kind of a weird different space there to like give you a deck building restriction but then also a trait restriction on that ability. I mean this is the only agenda we get with this type of like tribal interaction right. The only the only other agenda that mentions a trait in the initial printing was Yes yeah conclave see maury forgetting it. It's a little little boy at the time so we didn't. We did get more than one of these thank you but this is so fundamentally different than conclaves like oh yeah. It is not even operating in the same space. Other than the fact that they treat. Yeah i mean this is. This is just like amped up suber agro right which it just has felt kind of weird to me in second edition i mean to some extent probably would have felt strange in in. I add but A lot of a lot of the game is balanced around a kind of orderly amount of attrition. so Your roughly one character return death your roughly one card per turn loss from hand ensure you know some event fax can make that go. Kart effects can make that go up or down a little bit and certainly To claim effects that. But that's part of what makes to claim turns So potent and something to watch for and try to either utilize yourself or to hedge against Being hit with because they they below the standard pacing that the game is built around totally out of the water for a turn and then we got free folk that effectively doubles that right. Like you're you're you're getting this four card attrition because you're probably going all in on to claim plots and so now you're you're killing four characters or removing from hand or whatever you're killing for characters from you're probably killing for characters and the next time you go into attack it. Just totally throws the attrition scheme that the game is built around out the window If it gets through And that turned out to be kind of problematic free folk because of just how what the what does this card ask of you. So this car asks saul much of you. Probably more than any other agenda in the game like it's not only include neutral characters it basically creates a neutral faction card and before i wanted to say people were so stupid about this. Carbon came out with people freaked out and said i. This is gonna hurt a lot of people's feelings. I'm just saying it people being like you don't deserve to get the martell price support because you played martell. Free folk was stupid. Like one of the things i've found so so annoying about the community. When this card came out i get on iron on josse pavilion separating out the free folk because it lets you really more understand the meta than you know because they could be braff free folk and that doesn't mean anything compared to martel fever but at a specific tournament. If you wanna be martell free folk and get the martell price support. Good for you all right. Lancaster what have you i. I tend to think that people. Just way overreacted about that. And i found that very obnoxiously. Obnoxious in stupid. I mean there were some arguments that that got kind of overboard. But i can also understand. If you're going to do house prizes you are trying to create like a community like engagement with an loyalty to factions like. You're you're trying to amp up that type of like meta play And the free folk agenda jettison stat I can understand people feeling that that is kind of working across purposes. I mean that's fair but that's not the fault of the tournament or even the people playing free folk. That's the fault of f f g. We're that's true. Wants to do that. And they sometimes did then. They should have thought about that when they released the free folk and been like if someone plays free folk gives them this card. Isn't that might encourage some people to test as agenda when it was terrible right because a lot of the life of this card. It's terrible because the deck building cost is so high now once there's some wild wings that exist in the next set and i think torment The last box. I think but anyway this somali cards to kind of push this up but for much of the life. Free foot was the glass. Cannon blasts kennedy and it was sometimes she's really noxious because it could sometimes just like do its thing but then also sometimes they did there. They put shirt in. They did a bunch of challenges. Got you and then you valor them. Or even you valor vowel margulis them and they couldn't do anything for the for the rest of the game or valid or harass them and you could easily block and then their deck didn't do anything the rest of the game and you know and then of course free folk through its entire life had a ninety percent loss rate to shadows dex it just simply could not interact with what shadows was trying to do. A profitable way ninety percent of the time and so free folk was this kind of non entity for a very long time because it just didn't play into a lot of the themes that were strong in second edition except for a very narrow window and the fact that this debt was just pretty bad and very narrow. There was what i like about. Free foco is the ways in which it could punish. Certain mattis was one of the few decks ever existed. In second edition thrones at specifically wasn't medac where if some the great joy summer which will get when we talk about the great joy box where it felt like literally. The only thing you could play in the game to win to win consistently was great joy. Sometimes it was great joy sea of blood. Sometimes it was drowned. God sometimes it was great joy prince that was promised audio was some variant of great joy and three folks just punished that attack the fact that at gen con the gen kind of great joy that kershaw come off planes zero gains with free folk going into it and make the top aide of gen con with the dak tells you chris. One is amazing player but to that this was a great medaq for that. We get because of ways. It's specific place style. Punish certain type of play style that got out of control but then as soon as they hit the restricted list for the tech became terrible again. So i came to appreciate free folk because of the specific meta intervention could but overall this deck this deck was one of those decks that i mean as a magic the gathering arena player. It's very similar to two bolts trickery. Sometimes I'm just queuing up for a friendly game of a magic the gathering and someone kills me on turn to and i get annoyed but then sometimes they lose. Turn to and don't do anything. I get a free win. And that's a free folk was. Was it a good design. I think not but i think that the over-reaction that the community had to this card never really did it for me and i think it was. Just a big overreaction. For roy may have seen the notifications about this. I was busy trying to reinvestigate the other angle that free folk wound up causing some complaints about Which was in malay. I do remember some really strong grumbles about multiple people playing free folk In amelia event and sitting at the same table and that really mugging. Yeah and that's the thing. I was trying to remember the exact situation of what the hard problem was That people were complaining about 'cause you can't trigger it on someone else start trigger free folks reaction anyway On a challenge that you're not in so they weren't. They weren't doing that type of thing. I think to the best. I can recall. The moment was was just that you could coordinate attacks back and forth to wipe people's boards very easily and mop up a ton of on a posed That would be my guess. I can deficit that. I mean it definitely. It would be really difficult in a fair mealy game for two non wilding players to defeat to wilding players that are coordinated unless not allowing players team up. But then it's gonna mean. Hopefully your deck can interact on the board in a speedy way because it just like all right. Let's focus on the weakest one. Clear their board clear their hand next turn we can go after the other person of course if they can survive a reset right right well and if you've got the two of them coordinating than one can potentially hold back to edge for that bat. But i do not recall the exact mechanics of it. Now at this point who just three years after that particular would say set. A joan kahn. Malay malay scott one gen con there the year that relief jiwan all runs together now because there was the time the final table. Were you know. Jesse won the final table. Was macy in Sandy then there's the scott one which was also which was the year tyler won the joust then. There was the next year that i wasn't there. And that was the your maliki one. There wasn't really that year. Oh they have it on the wikipedia. Page april July june twenty eighteen. So probably this card number seventy nine says the second pack so it may be illegal for that for the gen con of twenty eighteen. Which would have been the ones scott one okay our former co host. Yeah so what about treatment the cold war trading That is an interesting one. Lebron right this is a really really cool designed space personally to get into where your deck now Not only encourages a. Let's say lesser card type attachments but also turns it into a toolbox. Almost sideboard sort of thing. If you want or you can go in voltron directions. You want us this to soup somebody up. I think this is a really really cool Option to Like space to play around with not not only in encouraging detachment kartheiser play but also the the timing of it is really unique and yes in some ways. That unique timing is a little bit of a pain for players to rock But also it's a really smart neat way to Build in a limit Without the kind of conventional limits that the game had used in the past like kneeling your faction card or just a hard printed number of times per her phase or round or whatever so i. I've always really thought that was really cool. Honestly i this is one of my favorite agendas not only from that perspective. But then the addition of banner so that you could play this with With alliance right is the place agendas and everything that's specifically florian's that's a florian thing that was specifically like that's according to the design like that was that was slapped on that was part of how flooring envision this card. Yeah it just it. It gives you so much need space to play and tinker. With and i mean obviously out to be very strong from jamie perspective but it takes a lot of those cool chicago boxes. Well of oh man. This opens up such weird possibilities. What the heck can i do with that now So honestly this is one of my favorite agendas in the game. This is actually one of my least favorite agendas. ooh Because i think if you would ask me in two thousand eighteen. This car came out and in a lot of the play testing that we did for this card. I would've agreed with well. I thought it was a mid and were initially was for a long while it was like kind of a reinvigorated a different type tool boxy midrange style. Right where you know this card. Another important inflection. Point is required to attack right And that's really cool. Like i think the classic platonic ideal of where i think this was designed to hit was the stark cohort axe. Right that had a few Really powerful attachments. The format like is but really was about like flipping into Moving milk's around flipping into frozen solid into mill for milk and frozen solid depending on where you wanted to be turning a bodyguard into a mill trail milk into a bodyguard to get around your reset. Next turn these kind of like really cool really small value plays right and i think that that's a really cool aspect of training. I think also there is that that voltron shaggy maybe jamie I think fundamentally were cohort ended up is just arena obnoxiously. repetitive style. Where you constantly see the same cards over and over again and they get looped really easily either because of ireland ravens constantly shuffling milk into the deck or shuffling. You know queens guard or whatever or in the obnoxious dragon. Dax the star the tar garin Economy location which is already played. Cobb occasional letting you okay. I burn clean to turn it into a milk on your character. Who mcqueen's card goes at the bottom of my deck for me to dry or fetch it out or whatever. I need to do the fact that you could constantly loop these attachments slides to really really repetitive. Game play and i was extremely sick of trading with the cohort by the time in which the f. era ended and the biggest criminal of this of course is barikot or Which is i remains. One of my least favorite dax attack. That really really really really damaged the fun for me. Personally and i think overall the meta for its reign For a long time simply because the deck was so resilient and a lot and if it got off one a challenge it could frequently snowball and if you could feel like you're in control but they they squeak out one challenge and suddenly. They've turned ruby into religion. They drew their cards in the wrong order and it could turn the review of lower into the lower three cost attachment. And it's all over for you. Suddenly they have seven power on their bob. And you're just like oh okay. The game was really interesting that one challenge and slowly. There's the snowball. I can't end by the end of the game. By the end of the game. I was done trading I think it secretly one of the most busted agendas that they printed. And i think the play patterns of the kurds and being really toxic. And but that's the fault of leader cards that they i will go for the barabakh so we get to it. If you come in for that barabakh's i hate it. I hate the gray box. Even more will see i i. We're moving into the roy. Hates this gonna get dark. We from from those Grand old days of What flight of crows through. Maybe sands of dorm yup inclusive. Yeah i mean like this came out in twenty eighteen right. June july august september. Yeah this cycle is sort of the end of such a huge gap between november. And i remember that the gap between the the the box comes out anyway. I shouldn't be looking at the release date. Spending two thousand eighteen. Was this again. The end of my high point with the game so important to say my by sees. But i think that this low key ended up being one of the most busted agendas in the game and and just had really toxic patterns but i love florian and well. I think what was trying to do was really interesting. Aware it ended up being just ended up. Not working out and very beautiful. So we've hit on most of the memorable cards. I mean we should talk. I mentioned at the end of the probably the most important cycle in this set which is a non limited economy. Yeah we did get that in this. This is your. What is annoyed. As i wasn't aaron earlier in the day This isn't airing glazer. Contribution this is something. He pushed for a lot in play. Testing across multiple cycles was to experiment with limited economy. So i'm gonna. I'm gonna spill the and say that we use you can give a soft pat on the back from. He was the only person or other people in play testing. Aaron was one of the people who was really like it's time to experiment with some non limited economy carts to give them a pat on the back or the of for them to weed out like i think the individual power level of these is all over the place but i think overall they landed in a good way like i think they're i think they're interesting. They were interested in successful experiment. I mean i'm mostly Okay with them. I mean it's hard for me to pass my love of summer seaport and refurbished hulk but won't old mine aren and mine. I suppose is gene instead of a dag. Nab what's the goodwin for magic Offers then discard Scaping me at the moment. It's funny that. I remember the the newer term and not the older one looting. Looting reading area is drawing for stunned. Discarding rummaging discarding i engines. It's like the it's up there with northern armory and summer seaport as like. Oh and of course. The stupid frigate target area in one right because this is market. Yeah the discard pile. Yeah other noxious. But but that's not the economy. Part of it that self noxious right. I think rush having a two for one economy cards is was a good design. It was one of the best designs on economy level. The danny did. And i think and they were playable in every faction i think every single faction saw play these that the end of the game right. There's not unlike some of the to goldman. I guess don't know. Storm lands fiefdom really. You've probably seen much look at let me look it. I'll look at next. I'm sure sure. Well i was just going to say that this worries me. I mean for the most part these turned out. Okay right like it didn't totally blow up the game right here. But i do think this continues. The trend of looking at the fairly carefully managed Resourcing established in say core through for cycle. Now they didn't a hundred percent hit the mark on that. We've talked about taiwan tyrian ad nauseam but It was very clear that aside from a couple individual mistake cards that the game was built around this very careful. Management of tight resources and limited resources particularly You know for your limited location or fear. Location base with mba limited. And ev. every time. I see that loosen up further with plots trading like we mentioned before and that sort of thing and now the non limited ones here the further. We jettison that idea the the more this problem is gonna come up. I guess for me and this is something we argued about. And you should go back and listen to our two part or is it three part Discussion of the core set. I don't think it ever worked. Like lancaster was a problem from the go. And then that arms race Like really distorted the first two years of the game and then when they printed this bestow. I'm just really regurgitating. What i've already said that kind of required them to break that gold. Apologize for it to work and once it's done you just like you can't put you can't put it back you can't close pandora's box once you'll pay. Panthers box was always a cracked in all these red cards shooting out with winds face on them and smacking all players in the face and once they printed the bestow cycle and they throw in the box there's no shoving back in like that was such a failed experiment and i think really harm the game if they had not done that. Experiment set at second. The second think second issue would end up in a much better place. I think once you've opened the box. These are great place to go to. And i think that they are. I think also Like the the gait cycle that we get in the next In the next set as well. I think these kind of land in a pretty pretty good way and they have lots of answers to them right in a way that feels like fairer than other forms of sort of economy control because to your ability to play multiples of them can be balanced by the fact that can be easily wiped out by your location answers. I think is a good interesting tension. That i liked about these cards now. Some of them on a individual level again the The tar area in one. Oh i hate. That card was really bad. Some of the effects that are stapled onto the two for one econ was probably too much probably like so many orange cards is like secretly busted but is it loud so it's easy to it's easy to a ignore but and then of course Is he in the cycle. The vegas i mean. Victim affirmative talk. Have you ever met you just a row. Point game about couples. Have you met. I had a couple then. Victoria graduate and refurbish folk. A flea bottom and a bastard. Yeah that's that's fair that's up there. Like top thrones couples. You know maybe danny. And kyle or another iconic thrones couple who goodwin but yeah. I think it's worth talking about. I'm looking through here. There's a couple other things i wanted to note. Typically we made jokes about dick terrible design one of the worst designs inset Others shift in the. I don't know what. The best way to thrones all use the magic term color pie where we start. Seeing the bosnian get answers to locations and location affects starts here so it could be present in their box end in the final cycle with privileged position which i think is one of the smarter design shifts in the game that was made sort of in its final third on i think giving barra good location answers was very smart and i real privileged position is one of my favorite designs in the set. I also get to cancel as well I wish it didn't treat cancel limited abilities. But because i am not a choke fan buds. Mom i think that overall a one cost Event cancelled that is also a ability. Look at cancel is very strong. And i needed. I needed escape. Ballymena right and and itself has a built in Vow right which i think is is an very interesting one that that type of writer the play. Only if you've not lost power challenge around. I think it is something. I wish i'd seen a bit more of To kind of emphasize some of the challenge focuses of these different factions. If you're sitting across from the of course now it gives you like a specific point of tack to kind of encourage aggressive action. It encourages forward motion in the game while being a kind of stall out card at the same time. It's it's cool. I like it There are so many cards in the set. That i i completely missed because i thought it already existed. Because i can't imagine second edition without this card. It's one of the most iconic cards a second edition. We have talked about it. Probably in detail will cause fundamentally changed the game. Guess what it is. It's in this set is is it scoggins. It's not up there. I love august. I think he did some obnoxious things. But it's one of my favorite cards. I have played a lot with this card. It's frequently not called by its actual name but it's drowned. God fanatic. i scroll too far looking further down in the list. The air we go. Yeah yeah yeah. I forgot that actually that this came out so late in the game so to speak. Yeah it came out in the second. Pack this cycle so so what's it legal at that. We got a lot a lot of cancel. It feels like in the cycle. Meanwhile there's a lot of really powerful effects that were floated. 'cause remember when this came out. Mace was still legal Wars was still legal so i'm was always lead. That was never actually. It was at its peak power level right when this came out Tombo we had just come off combo winter right so when this released. There's a lot of really powerful character abilities and a lot of really powerful events floating around so this was this was basically designed right as combo owed the first wave of combo the wonder woman Hyper viper what was the third one was Brea or rianne is wave. I guess you might be part of the second wave which was the worst of the segue but the two ones were wonder woman and hyper viper and ladies ladies which largest combat winter like there are these powerful location at an event based character trigger an event based combo decks so pretty document privileged position and printing. Something like drought god fanatic. Kinda makes a certain amount of sense But so that's important context nighttime like providing answer to particularly Affects that rely on one. Event or event in general Generally concentrate around zero to two cost. That's another thing to keep in mind when they were designing these cards and testing them. But i mean god fanatic. Well what do you think. This is the car the Join alive for a year. Basically like it sort of is gonna launch multiple different. Great joy archetypes on. Its back. it's going to be the fallback the it's gonna be the thing that allows greater mid range jackson snowball. On of course is one of the most important engine pieces for yeah Gosh is it terrible of me to really really personally love the card. That also still say. I think it's gosh. I hate to say this considering. It's a champ designed card so apologists events but to say i think it's it's kinda badly done like it does interesting stuff right like it's just that it's too easy to good like. We're looking at other Stuff like we were literally just looking at privileged position. That has this it. It has a cost one right Both one is in first point and one as in the gold cost. Didn't mean to double meanings there But to also has kind of this in pressure valve that it turns off Something like treachery from the core set Has that same thing right where you have an actual cost. You have a condition that has to be met to play it That type of thing but drown. God fanatic is a total freebie. Just just cancel. No no need to do anything else. In fact what you're doing is probably going to be a bonus when you put this guy into your debt pile So i think he's. He's just too efficient onto many axes. I i mean. I know he was also trying to be a piece of this drowned. Got injured in that sort of thing but he's just so efficient. I think he needed to do. Maybe one or the other to be a like good but kind of normal card But instead he's doing like three ish different things right. he's he's a straight up freebie cancel. He's part of a drowned. God engine and with kind of a little minimal work in smother steal cards. He's also a death machine to your opponents characters and it just is just too much. Yeah i think i agree with you. I think that and i've said this. This is not gonna be popular pointed as i drown guard. God card drown got fanatic is fine but of course. It's not. Vince is not just drought. Got car yeah. I mean take cancel if it was just like action. Place him in into your into your pile. Everything else stayed the same then. That would be maybe an interesting piece of of drowned. God and looking for ways to abuse that or the interrupted. Some didn't cancel literally. Most of the things that you wanted to the game. Yeah yeah and even if there was a max limit so you couldn't change around god fanatics Would also be good. And i think vince suffers from. Vince is a problem cardis treachery but he's free right like drowned. God fanatic was able to be play even if this card phonetics way better than traffic. Because it's free right because it's free and much more easily repeatable treachery absolutely because there's a lot of great joy cards that bring him in he brings himself out but if i think if say it said like in order for this at cancelled to work you must be running thirty drowned god cards or whatever like you could only played this in a drought deck. I think the cancel would be fine because the prop where where got phonetics. Cancel gets really. Problematic is in grave mid range. That's where it operates like a free treachery so it's even more obnoxious than the lancaster dax. That would get ahead and then snowball you with your one. Answer your varis. Your you know mace blink. That lets you get to strength pumps that you need or or to draw cards to catch up to your opponent or the randall. Stand that you need to defend your opponents challenge. Stop on the fact that this could allow gray mid range and rushed x. To snowball even further at no gold cost and then also could easily become a character that came into play. Right was really really really obnoxious. The fact that this could be all things to all joy dax is at the end of the day. What makes it arguably the most powerful cards printed its second edition It like honestly distort like distorted the game around itself the entire time that it was legal in the point which even when it was restricted other pushed out other powerful great joy hard like iron mines the whole agendas. That were shooting. Great joy like great joy was basically willing to play. Almost any cost up to like i mean. How many cars did they have to restrict before a great joy texts. Were making like a real choice. Like get like this like they get a garon and just a whole bunch of different stuff on there before drag fanatic was like okay. I'm going to pick another card to make my deck function how powerful this card was like. It distorted it for longer and more intense than other cards like rains. Taiwan lancaster mace wars to come like again. Some of the powerful like most powerful cards printed. I'd say that grunt geographic distorted the meta more than maced it. Whoa and that's that's bold. I kinda of see it right. Like mace was a threat. That kind of did it's one thing and your opponent had to find a way to stop versus. I mean he. He was posing the question. Right versus drowned. God fanatic could be an answer to a lot of other ducks. Okay yeah i could. I could see it. Yeah i think like obviously like i. This is comparing like you know very high. I know what the saint mason this is. Not me saying macy's art or a car that shouldn't have been restricted or or redesigned or whatever but like and this is also example of something. I maybe will and i talked about on the show before where you know in a world where the best things people are doing our mace What's the really busted addicted. Tyler gen con with Streep worse the unrestricted wall. Builders decks the You know the great joy decks that were you the early drown. God decks that we're using his card. And the greater rejects reasons card. They seemed like powerful. But you know. They're not mace. And then as soon as you. Paul like mase on its way way way. I'm sorry okay. Never mind and again the whack a mole that they had to play with the faction to get this card under control really really really highlights for me that this is the most bostick card arguably of course printed which is a testament events As a as a as a design that he pushed such a powerful design but again of course makes it up. because it's so powerful. You know a failed card because it was just so distorting the great joy it's so iconic like it's one of those some of those things mesa very similar and to a lesser extent like fiber viper like. They're they're comic moments in the game right when we think back when i think back to second edition you know. I'm like oh man. Those hyper viper decks was so busted remember. Remember that world's a whole team brought it and it was super crazy Or you know or even like win. I constantly talk about him and how it knocks was early in the game. But that's like an important part of the game's identity drown. God fanatic isn't important part of second editions identity. And what. what does that say about our time with it. I mean well. Don't take off your your. There was equally busted cards. and i. it's okay that's true. I does robert. No shadows bobby. Did some silly stuff Even the martell the immune viper the What was it silly martell agenda. That was frequently used with him. I yeah yep well. didn't they year six agendas. That they had to rewrite entirely depends on how much you want to count the wildly nice wash agendas. I suppose like they had to rewrite. The night's watch wants. I couldn't remember if they rewrote the wild week. Ones to I don't think they cash man it's been it's been just long enough now that i don't remember if they just got a very short arado slapped on them or if they got something more substantial but let for those who were tired. Save through the night sweats. Agendas that were printed in. I had to be rewritten. That's how powerful they were banned and had to be rewritten yet and they were reprinted like when those pets were like they were printed with the new versions of the how the card was written by. The time i bought in people are like they talk about like a data icon moment right like you and luke a person who should maybe briefly talking about as hard as we wrap this up Would talk about. Kyle would talk about these nice watch. Agendas this thing this this party. Why was this. was this a problem. they'd be like. Oh that's the card originally said. The car literally said something else i was like. Whoa okay. I see how blessed that was I think it's worth mentioning friend of the show. Luke reads card pin power. Definitely definitely that ones. That one's definitely a thrown story for sure. Do you wanna tell the second edition the first edition part of the story. And i'll tell of the spell a little bit more play testing a sure. sure with. There's there's actually. I've i specifically remember the year that Luke one this house world championship Because it was not long this might have been in the first year after he worked fifty maybe two years tops a so that that always stuck out in my plus it was probably a the strongest run. The i ever had at a joust championship With a deck that those view that followed alex's posts hurt probably read about The need the kind of stasis taiwan deck and and the reason i bring that up is because i played. I think it was my top eight game for about two and a half hours against jonathan benton while Like luke waited and waited to play. Whichever one of us was gonna win that game And other friend of the show matt lay played the entire other side of the bracket all the way through waiting for that game to be over while this is why they should not even be. Un- time semifinals like yo. Yes on off. If it had been timed. I would've won. I seriously spent. I think it was four turns in a clicking up to fourteen power and then he would just barely knock me down to thirteen than i would. Click up to fourteen again. Then he would not be down to thirteen. It was so frustrating but anyway Then then luke of course had to play his own. I think our and a half game at least against jonathan benton before then going on to play matlin the finals. So we lots of fun So he he managed to win. And i'm sure there is actually if if we had luke on the show a story about why he wanted pinch of powder in particular. I'm certain he has brought it up before. But i don't recall that part about why he picked this particular Thing but regardless got hit by kind of a weird awkward shuffle in the change from cc g to lcd and he got pushed off multiple times and then It it just it wound up in this kind of weird limbo spaces. Several of those champ. Cards did And it came out at the time with some really just awkward restrictions a it was a shadows card like we said which comes with additional inherent limitations in in. I said that may meant that you were making some real opportunity cost considerations if you brought it out of shadows let's see how did it actually work That's what it was. i'd forgotten it. It also used another mechanic that was a limiter You could bring it out of shadows at a different time outside that framework action but it used limited response by which was an yeah which was additional limitations. Kneeling your faction card. Yes yeah yeah you could do. One limited response each turn and that was it any any definitely had some competition there it just. It had some some weirdness with that timing but then also in order to actually return the character to hand You've you've heard us talk before about the alternate Resource scheme that. I said in the c. c. g. also used influence. You had to kneel three influence to return it Which was hefty influence. Cost very hefty. There was what only one of course you had to rely on drawing cards produced influence that went on plots or anything and there was only one card in the game that produced three influence Most of them that saw play produced one apiece. So you probably had to kneel three influence providing cards to do this just. It was just a mess way too many hoops to jump through To actually ever be effective it. It came out and then immediately put in binders so q. Second ad and let's say a bit of a garage or a chip that luke cat on his shoulder right so i think the way luke told me. This story Was that he sent the original designer. Nate who was luke's friend is luke's friend that was Like a design with you know you can add one of these limiters right like you. We don't wanna make it overpowered. So i had one of these limiters the joe look. He needs a slapped all of them on and then they're all present so when this card came back around the play testers. Who knew who again you know. It's really important i. He was also really influential early on as working for gm in he ran the department right. Yeah he did for awhile and In kind of the mid point of the cg they had this cool program That i've never actually seen another company do and probably never will again Where they actually sent him and like another couple team members to hyper kit. Would it was like you. Know two dozen or so different. Stores all over the nation On this giant in a weeks long road trip Demoing and teaching stuff interacting with store owners and running events and like it. It was a big deal for the community at at at the time because they specifically did schedule it around stores with a gaming presents for their games not just some random large store that magic stuff but happened to be really big like you know. You're cool stuff of the world. Or whatever like he they they were coming to actual community hot spots so he he had a very well known presence in the early days. Variable of it Longtime person and so there was the make this card playable. So this was a consciously pushed hard. And i actually think is annoying as pincher powder could be sometimes I definitely lost. Some gains. debenture powder that i found frustrating. I think overall it landed in a really good place for champ car right. it's pushed. You will see it in axe but it's not like unbeatable and it's not. It's not drown fanatic. It's not even. It's not even Hours card which is escaping me. I mentioned it earlier. Brains are cast like it's it's it's kind of a role player powerful removal hard soft removal card tempo card for many decks And the fact of course that it doesn't interact well with either of the attachment. Recycling cards is also really good. I think is also a really smart sort of limiter. so it doesn't work with cohort and it doesn't work with valerian. steel Sometimes see in influence deal decks But at it has like three gold to constantly be recycling. It is a pretty. It's it. It's one of the more balanced champions. And i'm really happy that luke was able to see his card. See some competitive. Play up to the gains in way. Many other iconic champs like greg and Alvarado corey all. You know up. Bruno who can't forget bruno They all got their cars in their card. Saw some competitive play in that way of course Foreign like many of these very iconic people who contributed to the community their hearts are playing loops. Didn't so it's nice to see that he was able to To do that as well agreed to any other cards. That are really desperately important to hit out of here. I feel like we've Gone round on a lot of information yet. Well that's one of the definitely grew in In popularity philip. Folks would definitely skeptical on that at first and really really came around as being superior to counting operas in a lotta decks. I think it was once attachments. As a cart type became more playable both as tax has pushed. But also as you got tree with the cohort. And you've got valerian steel. And you've got these landy. Draft not lending. Excuse me Tyrel dragon index or What's the reverse tar rose dax that were very attachment based. I think that's when you started to really see the powerful. The power of of exchange information particularly since there was like a narrow like ina valerian steel deck and to a lesser extent. A kodak like any attachment is good right Because they start your chains so it doesn't really matter what your opponent gives you when it comes to attachments and they're not a lot of unique attachments so the fact that you were reliably hitting three card types really did make this much more draw three and as over time more decks like builders which was in many ways reaching its peak of power here that rely on unique characters exchange is really good in a deck that has a lot of unique unknown unique characters at attachments or events. If you have a ton events is also fine right because if you have a bunch of unique characters. You're putting just gives you a dupe. Unless they're trying to reset you but they figured it would be like okay. You gotta do of your small unique after your three costume character. Cool or you've already do thailand. Okay sure you can have the third taiwan and awed act like builders That has very few niks every single characters a hit so even they give you that one drop builder. That's still gets your builders chink that you know. And then there's a narrow set of attachments. every attachment in that deck is good and is powerful in codex. every attachment is a hit. That starts your change. So i think it's kind of as tach -ment and non unique attachment as a car and non unique as characters became more playable towards the end of the game. Exchange really overtook things What else Couple others that. I would definitely want to hit on one is just because i personally love it. Never really quite got there in the in the wider world I love ravages of war. I honestly feel like it should have seen more plays than never Did in the wider sense. Great way to knock out some of kind of one off shadows stuffing's daughters mir is in the like I think it also seen more of this type of thing with kind of an incidental. Shadows punishment Available probably would have mitigated some people's complaints about shadows. As i think this is never did enough to be jamie card like character or location is kinda just like and like me. I mainly played it. In martell. Where i'm ditching all my own. Three costs characters so i can Flea bottom them and that's fair but of course also At the at the peak point of this car with this carts release Which was i. Guess at the end of the cycle so maybe everything was basically restricted but flee bottomless unrestricted. Or maybe was basically unrestricted because maybe one other card in most of the decks was restricted. So busted right so okay. I also sacrifice my three cost character. You'd so we both just flea bottom right and bring back right like i think if it had made you do all the card types it would have been much more powerful probably would have been a little too obnoxious. I feel like this is an attempt as a plant for win. Greg's agenda comes back. Which is next cycle. I believe is when three to one zero three two one the previous ending yup nights a holly hill is in king's landing so i think it's like a plant to try to you know for For those decks. Because that was always where if i thought ravages of war would see play it would be in the three to one ducks in in but he just never was quite good enough but never quite get enough. Yeah like i said just a just a personal nod the other the other one that i did want to at least throw bit of the mentioned to is something like growing ambition in that. Obviously this is a a huge combo enabler card and that's effectively the entire scope of this whole card. It's it's one of those affects where that is the entire point so it's no problem until it is a problem and it. It's never really going to have any middle ground and all and for for a game and historically Kind of anti combo in community sentiment It was both kind of shocking. To see and not surprising that it got a bunch of community flack and did turn out to be a problem yet. Green is a weird card As i agree a hundred seven hundred said well. It is only a combo card but in a meadow in which you have a discard pile that is flush with cards like this and flea bottom encourages you write. It will in a flea bottom deck. You're going to have a bunch of different and you want a bunch of different cards in your discard pile to the characters You've grown ambition does really end up all that strong like we tested this in may stacks and ended up not being all that great because those mace decks worth were flea bottom and you frequently wanted your your discard pile full of cheap characters to bring back with flea bottom and trigger your old time former and all that stuff so i ended up not being that great unless you had a billion gold and you've got you can pay fourteen because you did a giant trade routes in all basically you get the add your entire discard pile to your aunt or something right and the fact it's also challenges action had weird tension with flea bottom once you removed flea bottom from the meta though that's when you start seeing growing ambition be really strong and you get those tyrel drag index There's another similar car them surprise you didn't mention is basically For those of you who know old school magic doomsday exists in the emission. Esso's a card that always promised to do and there are always people. The platts alex box of the world. And i think this did end up breaking in. Mealy correct will but i i don't think it on. I'm not recalling. Now that i think it did break in mealy or they thought it would break in mealy. I'm not entirely sure doomsday. Piles breaks my small brain into into pieces. That don't quite. I don't quite understand But like mission. Esso's is a card that never do healthy fair things right it is. This might be. I think one of the few cycles where. There's two cards that like. You can't make excuses for danny promoting combo like you know like the ladies draw bunch of cards you can say like you know just wanted to promote ladies decks right. That's not necessarily trying to promote hambo right and of course neat who's not a big combo designer in that light splashy one. Turn kill kind of combo designer. When he designed a core set red viper. He wasn't going. I want this to be a one term. Kill right but growing ambition and mission. Esso's there nothing combo cards. And this was a set that did promote combo Tyrel dragon Was was the big one that came out of cards in this in this set. I'm trying to think of course dreamt broad with your junk fanatic being being present here as well. I'm trying to think of any other shadow. A combo enablers think the shadows combo cards are all in the next cycle. Like the ones are like really let you loop of jerry. Yeah they're returning cards. They are is tearing in the next cycle neck cycle. So this is not an so you know. I guess queen's guard is also a big combo cartwright So queen so there's a lot of combo cards and it's just just going to get worse and you never combo never really goes away. It definitely it's power level gets reduced significantly from its high point in that combo winter with the ladies combo but it but it never entirely goes away and that is definitely also like of the set. Indeed it is. This said had a lot going going on lago in for it a little bit against it but still lie general. The wall six costs wall. Well what do you think of that card. I mean on the one hand. It's a whole new deck type era right. That's kind of exciting. it's a. it's a huge big flashy effect on. I think the i was about say the most expensive location. We've seen at this point but we had already seen the six cost house. The undying was gone hill or whenever it wasn't rain areas hail. Or whatever i yeah it's it's interesting. It does kind of have some built in counterplay. 'cause your opponents choice and all and you know there's cancels Neal's that sort of thing. It's it's not just straight overpowered in that sort of way But i rarely had a game against it where it felt good where it didn't feel like a negative play experience when the whole deck when my opponent holodeck is literally using my own tools against me not even figuratively like the martell. Revenge stuff where it's like. Oh yeah bad. Things will happen to you if you pursue your game plan. It's literally i will use your tools instead of mine. I just i've i'm on record here is never having really been a fan of the level of characters theft that We've gotten in second. Ed and this is like the supreme epitome of that as as a deck genre. I just i don't like it. Yeah i agree with you from a design point. I think the wall vary pit amazes the to the problems of this design space right. It's a card that almost all the fun is one sided. You know like once you get the six wall going like your points really having a lot of fun right. I mean maybe that point where. There were a couple of times that i played wall. Big wall dax Where you steal a game that you think you're going to lose or your opponents like you're under a wall lock and you figure out okay. This character is dead. So i can't steal that so i can force them to steal this. Which opens up for me to do this. And oh my god i got to fifteen power or i got the thirteen power die. What's called you know. Like i managed to old you off from getting you while powers at thirteen. You know kind of things that feels kind of good but overall like once the six cost walk. It's going you only wall players really having fun and the an unli- even with the forecast while you have to like with six while when the six guests wall got blown up or god help you stole by iran or something like no. You're on it like you are now. The ballplayer player. Like your whole deck doesn't do a pile of garbage that doesn't do anything and durrell's ally it dirt allied in it doesn't like haymaker. Is this big expensive location. It's and like for this effect to like try to be acceptable. It has to be so expensive. Six costs for a location just like too much like it's just too much and for to really be fun and so the balance this and make it how dishes so many knobs and it just ends up being now the evil person at me love these wall dax because they when they going in the same with rat cook. I cook i loved record more than the the wall but the waldeck sauce is punished. Mid range like play a pile of unique characters debts and could like you know really make it obnoxious for a lot of like dax. That weren't ready for that. Play style and i enjoyed watching people like martin and others like just make someone who brought a pile of great joy cards or pile of lancaster. Cards or a pile of target area and cards. And just like i'm gonna mid range you out and the the big player goes no. You're not. I'm going to slowly make your life. I'm gonna torture you and you that taiwan is gonna be on my side of the board and give be creating value for me. So the bad person he loved it but like from a game design perspective and a play and perspectives. The wall was a failure and it never really landed those were never consistently good and the fact that the best version of steel yo stuff was Iraq cook you know the deck almost killed kyle. you know maybe you know. Check danny's life insurance policy as kyle you know when that deck is being played in the meta and that didn't always run the wall or man one of it right because one to be loaded the ground to get its rack cooks off and all kinds of stuff so the fact that the most consistent version that didn't play this just says that is flashy is this current was and memorable as it is. It is a failure both on a jamie level a- shaggy level. I guess it's pretty successful on a nedley level But is a game design. Level is failure but this is a great night's watch right. It's got the wall. routes three fingered hob jan john. The big boy. John because boy john boston and yana flint Lord commander even minors pick a they really got Nearly everything almost as good as star f- which got one and goes n mira and bolton flare. Wow card that also feels like was around forever and of course i mean every faction even look. This is a great turn for lancaster. Like all of these cards are gas. I mean they're all shadows cards but like all this is a this is maybe the first set in a while were seven of the factions. Get really strong stuff at beira is almost there. I mean I'm sorry i'm waffling in that. I think maybe tight real is a ticket. Scheming sept as innings except my friend queen of thorns. She was good particularly in the assault on the shadows days. Where she could blow your deck. It was better. When assault was the dominant shrewd was good is good like if it's yes so it didn't get as crazy good is it death But not not quite the same density as you know. Starker lancaster something but scheming. They got some gems. Ski me boy. Yeah that is honestly one of one of my favorites. It's another one that just has shadows stapled on for no particular reason but it's one of my favorite against utah. Move cards around on the table. Sort of cards like like you said. We enjoy that style of play and he really leans into that absolutely. I guess we've got. I mean this is so much in the sat and keeping us here logger but like the the dragon cycle like this is when we get our first right. The first big dragons drove a new. The new drug renew all and the new. Oh he's not in the set of them. Forgot which. I forgot super weird at the time. I got that he did that. Drug on is yet for sure worth nodding at least one of my least. I hate all of these. These frigging cards. Yeah gary in a to d dawson people with dario all the time drug on one of my least favorite cards his busy boy his dr gifts of the widow another combo part that takes a long time restricted and then marine. Wow yeah marines market. I mean this yeah. This is the the the tar garin package that is so so powerful. That's going to be be a presence in the metaphor a long long time. I mean the world's this year was this was the year that Lennart one and right playing against a the wausau marine dak eight marine deck so powerful and the year. The stark also did really well at that world's to and graydon so but we almost had the best start. We're so close. We are so close so close to having the right start deck. That's frustrating so close. We put a little bit more work into that world's ncaa you put you put a work and stuff we did. We really not usually burn ourselves out at gen con and and then world's world's was in november and like so like glazer's teacher john's kids going back to school. I'm a teacher. Johnny used to work for education. Might not a more like there's a bunch of us you know. We're like got much busier in the fall rights. We would like crank out in the summer and then like you know like figure two euros. Big ready for world and solid can be like nowhere break out. Why are we. What's this game. Why what are we doing. What about long lances in our structural problems. I think that covers everything. I i think it's probably going to have to be i am. I'm sure there is more That we could delve into here. But we've already kept listeners here for let's see yet just a couple minutes shy of two hours so if we wind up going down one of these other rabbit holes i. We're easily or another half an hour to forty five minutes a farewell. We are well into the danger zone. I think is the longest one in a while. Yeah i think so. There's a there's a lot to cover. So i understand how we got here every time i thought we were done i was like wait. Here's another card because some of these cards are so iconic to the end of the game. That i just assumed that they were already legal wyman because he has nothing to do with shadow us so yes. Yeah when you mentioned him a moment ago i had to scroll back to the start guards crap. He was i totally thought. He was two cycles ago till we talk about him yet. I coulda sworn we had but here he is here. He is all right. Well thank you for joining us. And as we marched into the danger zone the next up is the second shadow cycle would ever release order. It's king of ood grade joy box the beginning of the end you'll be in so many ways

lancaster tyrel dr martin john chapter martinus John Lancaster wama Adriaan dax tyrel benghazi Hurok preston greenfield casserly erin glazer Jamie lancaster murray dexter jamie lancaster usa mullen
Episode 92: A Song of Ice and Fire

Reel Chronicles

1:54:28 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 92: A Song of Ice and Fire

"Bomb. Bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-ba Boban pom pom do. The braille. But, but. On. Always surges like electric typewriter. So you guys can here by our lovely intro, tune intro. I think we are back and we are covering one of the greatest shows of all time. Acapella group could I know I feel like we can go? I think so. And before I do our intros great to be back. Leona had our bro data month ago and a second. Just say congratulations to Mr. and MRs Ross. Hey. So congrats on the awesome wedding. That's the reason we haven't been on a few weeks as and I got married. You're getting married next. So, yes, yes, he is my partner. So any any of the listeners that did come to our wedding. Thanks for coming. Ryan will be on in a little bit for our next episode over to. Yeah. We're doing double header double header today, but I want to think my lovely wife and rock, and I'll think Ryan again later for probably one of the best surprises I've ever had in my life. I was crazy. Crazy. And I actually, I gotta think the man that gave us apprise Mr. Kevin Smith. So you guys can listen to, yes, Jen surprise me and she got a him to send a special wedding message to so Kevin Smith signing at the secret stash on may fourth Star Wars day and Ryan was on his way to meet him, and he was able to get him to record a congratulations message for us at the wedding and our wedding was actually at an old movie theater in Riverhead New York, so cool. To get it on the projector surprise. David, I didn't cry too much at the wedding. I did I did cry. I told you I am going to cry at your wedding nine I'm like, you don't know how much I am. I will cry as wedding. But great speech to sir. I forgot everything I, I was like half video. All of America. We'll see. But we are back and we are covering. I wanted to do this. I teased it last time we were on that we're going to cover game of thrones and I wanted to after the finale just to pretty much dissect the whole series. And what we thought were do we rank it as one of the best series of all time, so on so that you can see by my intro. I personally still do. Let's just get put this on Front Street right now. As a series finale. Let's not we're going to dive into the season as a whole as a series finale. I will I seen a lot and laugh at a lot and I'm glad surges here too, because would up he actually read the book, so you can give us a take that the three of us can't really give. That's why. And he's very passionate about this as our text conversations. I've shown this should be fun. But I do want to say that on the out of SU series finale, he's I didn't hate it. I think it did certain things that I wanted while the season as a whole we're going to dive into as being rushed as a series for Nali looking at what I've seen in my entire life with trash series finale that have done. Nothing believe it to support it and make regret. We watch the series. I have no regrets. I'm fine. And my is one of. The greatest of all time now. It's not one of the greatest of all time by any stretch, but do I do. I think it will age. Well, I think it will. I don't agree with you there. I listen, I think that this show is. I think it's in my top to remember about the series. Or this episode. Just just. Finale, I was not a fan at all because there and it's not because it because it wraps, everything up with a nice, bow, and everything is happy and everything, and it's almost everything ends happily ever after. And if you know the author, and if you know how the stories go, it is absolutely, not the way that, that, like all these characters are supposed to act. That's not that's not in their character to behave in this way. It's not for John snow to behave this way or denarius to behave in that way. And for them to all of a sudden have a character change all of a sudden he'll turn as as fans fanciful, right? It's, it's we expect the Neri's to inherit a lot of the traits that her father did like as king Aries did because he was a madman and she has a lot of those traits. But the, the way in which cheat turned was not only unexpected, but very, very stupid, and I'll, I'll. Go into the details as we go into this podcast, but it was such a from from yes, from all of the other episodes, and seasons we see her progress and we see her character growth. And we see here go from being this innocent sort of clueless girl, whose brother is the one who's going to be king for from her to grow and to adapt and to become powerful and user power. And, and, and this way to free slaves and to become this powerful leader to all of a sudden come into king's landing and burn everybody down, because she's mad that her handmade was killed and all the stuff has happened. That's not what is in her character, and there's other things, but I'll I disagree with you on that. I think they've, I think they've slowly done things in with her character all the way back in season. One that I think, has shown that she will eventually turn into what she have turned into especially, and we're going to get into this. But I but in. In terms of Danny's turn itself, I have been thinking that. This was going to be the end game for her. Since I feel she went power-hungry, especially with when she killed SAM's. Dad, and SAM's, brother. Okay. And I think because she used the dragons, very spree Lii and we never questioned her because if she she used it on. Yes. So we already didn't like those characters so we never questioned her actions. But the actions are so bad. But the actions, I think we're still bad and never gave anyone. She never gave anyone especially your sands brother and dad, like are you're not gonna bend the knee. Now. There's no alternative. I'm gonna fuck him burn you. Yeah. But the narrative has never been power-hungry crazy person sheets. Listen, she has always she. She was always kind of been this person that I demand you to be kind of, you know, acquiesced and to, you know agree to my rule. And but she also showed showed compassion. And for those people, and she never she never had a moment in which it was only all the people who betrayed her in a match for like, in, like in seasons two and three when all those people had betrayed her and she took action against them. Those things were understandable agree by her to all of a sudden finally arrive at king's landing, her whole, the whole journey is complete to. Reclaim the throne which, which by the way, we find out, she's not the true air. She knows she's not the true heir of throne. She knows his John snow, noses, and another thing about John snow, now, that he knows that he is a target area, and like a never gets dry. Dude, I have I have a lot of notes here that. Notes. Commentaries. Here and yeah. I'm just listening. John, I feel as if and then I feel, as, is are the book's going to end the way that the show is in some way. Yes, I do think that brand will continue to be king. I do think that there are some things that are going to happen in the books that will continue to be like, how they are in the show, search I wanna dissect you on this real quick because I personally predicted brand to be end up as king like a year ago. Sure. Because I've heard Donald Shoup you've read the books can you can dive in more on this IRA? I've read enduring different on different sites that the books have a lot of brands perspective. Yes, his POV. So seeing as the books have had him as p a lot of POV, it kind of would make sense that it would turn that he would become king. I read something earlier like last week or this week. I think it was that the first scene of game of thrones on TV was through. Brands is the POV thing. And it was like one of the first things that he saw was, how Ned had to behead someone because I'm like, what's right or what you had to do as far as king's concerns. Yeah. So you're ready saw that he wasn't a fan of that monarchy in that kind of rule. And I've never been a fan of brand. Don't get me wrong ever since one of my moments, we're gonna talk about later ever since that moment. I've wanted gone. But he hasn't wanted to be the night, king. I thought that was going to be awesome. If that whole thing turned out, but ever end I think we'll talk about this whole season and a little bit. But I think a lot of the whole. Six vol ace season has to do with. So gimme a ranking ten how would you rank finale, does the last episode? I'll give it like a seven. Okay. It's not great. I wouldn't put it in eight nine ten. But I thought it was, I think it's one of those that when I re washed a whole series 'cause I once everything's out on Blu. Ray. I wanna get everything rewatch it from beginning to end with fresh lens because I really haven't watched it. I in, like nine years. And so, like, I haven't really been, I don't remember some of this stuff. But if I watched this as a straight through series, maybe it'll go up. Maybe it'll go down. But I think this, I think this age will it really, really reminds me of the backlash at soprano got. Okay. It really does. And I was one of the ones I've really enjoyed his apprentice alleys, and now I talked to everybody and seems everyone loves the sopranos finale. Now, I don't like the sopranos finale. I liked you did. So but let's just dive in. Would you rank it at a time? Surge finale episode to, to a two hundred ten and I have a lot of reasons why it's a two out of ten everything's so rushed, and it's almost like they forget about every other character, and they just sort of try to wrap everything up and the way race finale. But, but the way that they choose to wrap it up is very Hollywood. It's very tropy. And it's and if you know anything about a song of ice and fire, and if you know it goes against tropes. It's a very original. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's really so much because he's sort started killing me and characters like that. And the way ends is sort of like it's sort of like they had all these other seasons were all all them are based on the books. Now the show is ahead head of the book. So they thought, how are we going to end? It is like they got to fucking guy from transformers, Michael Kamen direct, and it was like, let's spark in have L this, the books have been the show is an head of the books in season. Five yet and not to a point, but no one's complained about season six or season. Seven so people have complained about season number seven to a point. But here's the thing, they the, the, the creators of the show, the directors, who I forget their names. Bhan off and other voice. Forget get the but no helps to have their names. If you're having an episode. It's. So so they had access to. I imagine a draft of the book that is still being being no. They still have access to Ben off and Dealey wise. Yeah. They have a draft of the script that, that George are had had created and written in his still drafting and all that. So, so they still had a basis for which to base, their episodes on all of season is based on a book that isn't even started yet by, by the author, so they winged it, no pun. They had they had to they had to, they had to wing it, and I understand, and they could have waited. But if they would've waited it would've taken a million years, I understand that. I personally don't think he's ever going to finish those books says, listen, I if he doesn't I will, I will be very sad because here's here's my whole, like I don't like the no from so getting heat on this because. People forget, the yet, they're using toys R Martin's framework, but it's not verbatim from the book to screen as a matter of fact, there are many. I think are at least sixty characters that are into books that never even made it to show e even ladies, don't many stone, heart. Dow is of they want. However, However, I do think that as, as, as a reader of the books and I want to show. Yeah, although they will mid a lot of the minor characters. They're still almost everything that happens in the book happens in the show and it's all done all with fidelity like, like, it's, it's really accurate. Like, like, like, say, for example, if you have someone like gene pool who is a character who is not in the show who who who Ramsay snow slash slash of slash. He. He's a bastard who eventually is elevated to being like Lord or whatever. He he, he rapes this girl. But in the show at sunset stark day. So it's like her, like they give that whole role to got a more important character people. Right. So, so it's not like it's not like they do something that's out of feel like even though they amid a lot of the minor characters they still transfer a lot of those things that happen to a lot of the major characters. So is still makes a lot of sense. So I in my research, I found out that George are Marin gave but no ffom Weiss three key points that he demand demand is stronger that he really passionate about fell. Passionate about to be included in the series and benef- and whites have already told us to and they never have told us to third as which I think I know what it is. So the first one was you gotta kill Ned stark. That's like you have to do that right away. Number two. We. I want the red wedding on the show and number three, they have not revealed what it is. What I think is Danny doing what she did Danny doing what she did was third one. That's what I if maybe a combination of that, and Bram becoming king. I understand how Danny did turn that she did. But the problem is that it was 'execution while her where it was these characters are developed, slowly and you understand their intentions, and, and, like there's a reason why she would do the things that she did. But her sudden turn. Yeah, that's sudden turn throws her whole character. Arc out the window like s let's start off a thing. I have here on my notes, and it's, it's Jamie Lancaster. I will shit on. This is my favorite art conveniently is my favorite character on the show. And the reason why is because he went from wurley. He, he went from this evil bad guy that just a just a piece of shit character. And you see his character arc and you get to know his background, and you get to know his reason for being the king slayer, and you get to know the anguish that he goes through, and the irony is that and they stress this in the books, and they do it in the show. But in the book is really, really stressed the anguish that he goes through the reason why he's a king slayer. He saved the fucking world. He saved king's landing because king Aries was going to kill them all he pretty much Danny kill the ball and Jimmy, Lancaster, whose, who was, who was the head, who was, like Lord, command Lizzy. So John now be called like the Queen slayer. Yeah. Yes. Right. Yeah. So, so, so he went, so Jamie, like he. The reason that he's trashed so much throughout the show. Nobody knows until he basically emits to brand, right? Yeah. He says her, and then he says people hate me, but they don't understand that. The reason why I did it because I served the Kingdom I saved the world by killing this crazy person because he was going to kill everybody, and then as he killed the king than incomes at art stark. See some kill the king, and labels McCain's layer. Now he gets now he gets a reputation, but he never gets the ability to explain himself by. Hey man, I did this to save you did this to save everybody. So he has he has a ill kind of reputation that sort of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy now on the piece of shit. Now, everybody hates me, and he kind of Li lives, his life of being a bad guy, and it isn't until he gets capture captured, and with him and Rianne, and they show him and they show him his haircut has yet. No relief. He has his arm shop, and it isn't until he's Hume. He's embarrassed and humanize humiliated and Bryanne shows that kind of of, of the mercy and, and he just explained himself and it's almost like you see this guy that and Jamie and theon gray joys. Another excellent. And the way they handled fee on, on the show was amazing. I say a great that great into Ugo really offensive, you'll go from Jamie and fee on who went from these sort of bad guys, too. And I'll I talk about Jamie. And then he sort of kept screwing up, and then all of a sudden, slowly, he and NS that, and this that scene that chapter in a book where he's where he becomes Lord commander of the not not alert commander, but he becomes sort of the of the of the leader of the of the of the in the books are called like a of the white cloaks the ones who defend the king, his like his, you know, his henchmen, right? Yeah, yeah. Something and, and there's like a chapter the has his name and all his accomplishments, and there's a scene with, with its Joffrey and Joffrey is looking at it, and they say uncle, you'll have shit written down on your accomplishments, as as being a night like you have. No. You have Judy. Actual duck. Nothing. You're known as you're only thing is, you're a king slayer. Jamie has internalized sort of thing and it's like I have I, I so I have done nothing. And this is and this is the point where Jamie star Sukanya realize I need to turn it around. I turn and that's when he has the siege at, at the tellies where he's kinda has siege at river run and he's and then instead of killing the mall. He has a par lay. He meets with them. And then he was like, oh, shoes, listen you guys surrender. I won't kill you weaken. All I want this control of your castle, Yukimi award or whatever, and we'll call it a day. We won't kill anybody. And there were like I don't trust you because you're a king slayer, he kept his word. He kept. Keeping his word throughout the thing. He, he went from the scummy dude to understanding that I need to prove to the world that I am not just a scumbag that I am doing great things. And finally at the end and season eight where he. Meets, you know what him into narration interior, and all these people come together, and he's finally proving himself that it's like I came to do good. I came to do, and then he goes to sir see, and it's like pro like throw away this character growth. That is so amazing. He went from. He went he. It doesn't seem like it's in his character. Now, I understand addiction is a thing. And I understand that if you like he was he, he's, he's like, he's like addicted to her love, and he wants to go back. I understand it. But the way was done. So it was solo rush execution. Hugh. I think we all agree that the issue with his last season's not we're diving into season was just rushed Russian execution. Yeah. I personally feel if these before surgery theon this season ended with episode five and Danny doing what she did. And you have one more season of just her ruling everybody being that mad Queen and we get the same exact finale we got last week or two weeks ago. It would have been accepted there. I think my issue with it is not even the quantity of episodes. I think it's the substance in those episodes. It was too much in those episodes. I think honestly you could've spread out each of those into two episodes and a little bit more like gradual building. I think the he'll turn for the nearest made sense. Once you've looked back and realize every Jauregui kill to. Yeah. She lost. Everything everyone that kept. Her calm was gone everyone that was there for control, but we never saw her anguish. And you have to deal with that more turn and also it's very like it's symbolic like the everybody all d all like the unsullied and the thraw key. And all these armies had followed the narrator y is it because she's a woman, she's a strong leader. No is because she had a king drag. She lost one dragon. Then she lost the second, dragon recipes and then all of a sudden, she has one dragon that is left. Now, everybody's sort of like, wait a minute, like, we don't know anymore. Now she's unsure now. She's hurt her. Her power is very tenuous at this point. And it's like now like so I understand her her losing her ship. But the whole point of her was to come to west rose to reclaim the throne, that her father, had a now she feels that she has a rightful claim to. And I also you mentioned Danny something I really didn't join the finale is. She never got to sit on all this. Yes, she never got to sit really. I, I was like, when I saw her touching my whole, I hope she doesn't sit on it, and then we'll happen with John happened. The John the weirdest thing about this whole thing of generes is that now she understands and completely knows that she is not the true heir of the iron throne. In fact, that is John snow. Hence the title a song of ice in fire. John snow is literally ice and fire. He is stark, and he is target area. That is the point that, that this whole entire series has been has been going up to the fact that John snow of a supposedly a bastard of low birth like of no honors who was raised as a stark because, because, in fact, at our start kept his heritage from everybody for a reason, now we know he's his name, symbolically, ironically, as Aegon targe, Aaron Egon tar Garin was the one that. Came hundreds of years ago to conquer the seven kingdoms. So it would be almost a symbolic for another AIG on tar, Gary in to come and change it all up. Nothing is he. I, I love my Queen. I will follow her to I will follow her wherever she goes I ever. He's nothing. Nothing. John. I agree with you. But that's been John from day one, it's been Jonah from day one ever change stripe. And also. He's very handsome. But I also feel like on the one hand yes, he is. He is the air of the iron throne because he is target area. And he is stark and all the stuff and all make sense. And he, and he has his father, who has father. He was supposed to be the king after after king Aries, but because his father died now. John target not John's not John's Aegon's argh areas. He was supposed to be the true heir. But being raised by Ed art star in. He never wanted power. He wanted. He just wanted to just be like, look man. I wanna go back on it. Bye, jenny. We'll talk Genio say piece on actually really liked ending. I did too, and I like to. But I had some caveats about the ending, which are rich, which I think are really, really stupid. But I'll get into offer the throne, and then turning it down offer ain't no even known. Of his what happening, I think people know. And I think Danny it was gone. He wasn't gonna get thrown. Let's talk about him killing Danny. I was fine with. All right. Bro- first of all, first of all spoil, first of all, you know that Danny is your aunt. She knows she's your, she's your aunt in your nephew. They didn't know that until after the first they continue to. Hang all this stuff. And that's AB bang. That's what the what point had John ever been like Zoli. Okay. Let's say by Queen now. Right. Like they that shit was like I'll go to Jamie insurgency, pa-, I, I wanna talk about John and Neri's and the narrows conquers all kings landing incinerates, the entire time with all the innocence, which is something that, she, which, listen, if you're narrow, you are the breaker of chains. You save you save people. From chains labor is integrator of innocence. Hurt. Her arc her her arc in marine, her art in Carthage and all of these things, she's always been like I will take out, these usurpers that will take out, these slavers. I will take out these cruel. People now will save an will set these people free that has been her thing. Now, all of a sudden, she's in king's landing, and she destroys, Atlanta's army and degrade joy flea end. The golden company who never get mentioned, the golden company. And you're looking at me, like who's a golden company. Exactly. They never get mentioned because what happened to them. What happened to the golden company in the books, if you look at they, they, they like they were all set up to be this gigantic force, and all the mall together, and will anyway, I've jumping up ahead. But, but then all of a sudden John comes up to the news, like our love you, and they embrace, and he slowly stabs her. I'm sorry. And then she just lowly dies. It's such a Hollywood and will not ever. It was such a show Bopper scene. And if if you know, the books, and George and George how he writes his books, this is not what would happen. This is not what John would do. This is not what would happen. John would realize way before way before he was like this is a crazy mother fucking bitch. And I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not following her, and she and she like he's not gonna follow her because he's not the rightful Queen. She she he knows it. Everybody knows that she has dragons, but she's not the rifle Queen and she's very powerful. He will probably want her at his side. But when you're that power hungry, and let me skip ahead a little bit. Nary says always been about freeing slaves and bringing Justice and doing all that stuff. So she went from doing all those coming to western rose to incinerating the entire population of king's landing than all of a sudden, she's like, John. You must join me to cleanse the world to cleanse the world of corruption and we say and. Denarius had now is emperor, pal Patine dive in on that. I do want to comment on that. But everyone that's ever been evil. That has that's been a good villain. Okay. Perfect example, use a recent example, Thanos. Thank you for mentioning panel Daniels ex to combat where you just said, Donald says, like a well, this is necessary to bring balance you feel like you are, in the right he feels like he's in the right to same way. Danny feels in the right? But if Danny comes in to take over the iron throne. Why would she kill innocence that were oppressed? If she feels like just like in marine, and just like in Carthage just like in all those areas, if she feels like the if, if the Lancasters and all these people are keeping these people also all under underneath their rule. Why was she then incinerate and kill innocent? And then say we had that cleanse the world so sewers you're gonna fly to now. So I think on this point, this is one of those moments where it's like had we seen some of the backing to what causes to happen. I like what I mentioned like a full season. Yeah. Look at this point, if I saw, like a small moment where she kind of went a little rogue and Giora came up to her and try to convince her to calm down or what's the Handmaid's name? Massawa Sandra on. All voices of reason even Tyrian at that point you couldn't trust anyone actually I, I grew. I was actually gonna bring up your point. I the reason she instantly did what she did is because she no longer has any support by she's thinking off the flat. And how many how many times have the five of us four of us have made irrational decision in a moment's notice because we don't have our support bias, correct? I agree with you. But I have you seen a grown fellow under I but I think that's I think she always had this kind of, like. She was a rash thinker from the beginning. Yeah. We all saw someone kind of they were other subdued her. We mentioned like when I mentioned, before, like I've seen things from season, one that show that she will be turning the glimpse, even in season, one when Cal like killed her brother. She and I think now purposely in twenty twenty hindsight purposely the camera focused on her watching her brother die. Oh, and her face is of acceptance her face, not a remorse. Her faces just like kind of he deserves it like this is what needs to be done when I need to get what I want got it. It just goes, we're talking about the season as a whole right now. It goes back into the whole rush rush. I, I see a lot of a surge point is one hundred percent under percents. He was definitely, but I just think that we can Star Wars for this because I have nothing confirmation of this. But I feel that the reason that this season was rushed because HBO has come out and said that they did offer them to do another season and to finish off ten episodes or whatever Kathleen, Kennedy is she runs. She runs Lucasfilm. And she wants guys start writing this trilogy. That's going to be out in two years. Bro, if, if, if, if the the series if this prequel series or whatever comes any spin off of game of thrones. Come out and they're not all based on the books by George. Then I, I would rather not watch the show because, like look the acting phenomenal. The cinematography is phenomenal. The music is phenomenal. And the and the and the directors creators of the show are very good. But if the foundation is not there, if the writing isn't there, the reason why the show is great as it is, is not because of those other things that I said, it's, it's, it's, it's the author and the writing nuance of source materials. It's, it's his understanding of the gray area. So I will counter, and I think we spoke about this. So here's my biggest argument to your to your say there, every year we have an Oscar that's given for doubted work, and I and I don't think that like Spike Lee just won. An oscar. Year for Dafteng work enjoyed our Marin deserves all the praise in the world. Yes. But I don't think we should put Weissenbach enough in terms of like oh, they're just good writers neither great writers because able to bring all that to the screen the way that he did. And yes, a season was rough to some, but we have seven seasons and to some six or great seven was good, and eight would was what it was the people. Here's the thing. Here's the reason why I'm upset about about their writing, and it's like it was almost as if all of a sudden and the battle, and in the long night, or the battle of winner fell, and it would have been too. Awesome. And the action was phenomenal. I love everything about the action and the music and the score and cinematography and the acting. But there's a lot of things that I didn't like the all the minor characters. I think Davos, I think various like even Tyrian like they didn't do shit. They didn't these are very important. Influential characters that, that are are important characters. They did it even brand even Barandy this season didn't do Jack as opposed to what has he done in Russia, the seasons like he's been carried a lot? He and lacking. His character arc continue his character arc is fantastic, especially in the books. You see his grow grand. Yeah. It's and so I could see if he read the books that you can say, okay, I can see brand being the king of the six kingdoms, but I'm not gonna get ahead of myself. I'm gonna get into the six kingdoms and the north being independent way ahead of this because I have a major major major problem with that. But I'll get into some of that. Let's talk a little bit about the. The three friends okay, the throaty we know the unsullied go back to Nath and real understand. Why because in because in Nath is a country that is very, very like as far away and Masan, they came from Nath, and they're kind of the kind of. Place where a lot of slavers come and take their people and make them slave. And they're kind of defenceless. So they thought the unsullied who were former slaves. Go back to Nath to protect these people that are defenceless to protect them from being enslaved. I get it. And this is a wish that grey worm and Masan day, I get it. I get. I understand it. And I have no problems with this. They did not take the any of the throaty along with them because the all because all these people who are who are were were are rocky hate to sail the seas. They are very afraid of crossing the ocean. And it took a lot of convincing for them. It's in their culture that they don't like crossing the ocean. So so, so for them to even do it, so they did not leave in west rose. There are a foreign invading army now chilling into six kingdoms because now is not the semi them. Now, they're in the six kingdoms and brand under. Stands that I'm not gonna punish these people. These horsemen these this other culture that because they helped me gain the, the iron throne. What are the throaty going to do? Now they don't grow crops. They don't settle. They go around the pillars they plunder to kill they rape. They take everything. And now that the kingdoms are split the death rocky. You're just gonna go about and take ever like, like if you leave them into north to rocky, you're gonna come in and to into into house into into the into the house of the Boltons, and they're going to go into someone's house, and they're going to rob everything and kill everybody and take all the resources because that's what they do. Rocky do. So brand as king. How do you address situation where you have an invading army sitting in your in your continents, because it's basically a continent? How do you dress them because they're still chilly? In west rose, do you, give them a home? Who do you take it from? Maybe we should build a wall. And I know and, and the real. You're not good at like chill anywhere. Keep on being being like like an army of roaming, people that are gonna keep conquest ING keep concrete the sequel series is going to be. But I just think as, as a politician, I say politician, loosely, because it's a king, right? Like you would think if your brand and you see into the future and you see into the past, and you have all the kind of, of the wisdom, you would know that having the three key in your in your nation. They're going to pillage and plunder and rape their way across the entire country or continent of west rose. And you're not gonna be able to stop them. What do you do in this situation because they're not gonna sail all back to two ayso because they came from Asia's, that's another continent. They're not gonna go back because they hate to cross the ocean. So what do you do? TD TD. Exactly. But it's a stupid, but it's a decision that is stupid, that, that brand would never. Do that. Because brand is wise and people in this mall council are wise. Let's talk a little bit about that small. About the small council. Let's all try into into elect, a democratically elected king motherfucker. Do you know that these seven kingdoms have been at war with each other for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of chime in right away on that? I really think you're reading too hard. I think it was a joke on purpose. Purpose placed really no other it was funny. What I'm laughing at is that before the episode started. Surge was like. Look. It's all going to come out and it's coming out. Continue the listen. Listen, first of all, democratically elected king. Okay. First of all, in the history of western this is this is not happening. Why I don't know. Could I feed the feel like maybe maybe this world is now is prepared to have a democratic elected king? Yeah. Fine. Sure. But a democratically elected king, and government is not going to let the north to secede and become own nation. Why? Because the other of the kingdom's have been at war with each other for hundreds of years and prior to the conquest of the tar area Pryatta, Aegon's conquest, hundreds of years ago, these kingdoms have been at each other's throats, Dohrn, and the Westerlund and the iron islands, and all these people had been fucking each other up for hundreds of years until a gone came in and conquered demaim now that the north is seated, do you think that the grade joys? And do you think. The iron island do think that Dorn is just going to be like, yeah. I'll we'll let them be independent, but were still going to be under the rule of brand. Oh, and by the way, he led his older, sister, become Queen of the north in no world would that be fine because the rest of the seven kingdoms are going to be like that messed up. Here's another thing. Here's another Airfoil for not asking for the independence because Santa ask for their independence because they were once independent sloppy. It's slots. I don't know anybody. Asked, they just didn't think too sloppy writing. It's like why the gray joys rebel every thirty years, every forty years other joys? Because listen, if you know, if you know, the how if you know all the words of house, great joy the, the word the words of house, grades is we do not. So what does that mean we do not? So we do not plan crops. We do not grow farms, we pillage we rape. And we plunder and we take everything from other repay the iron price they go. And they take other stuff now that the north is independent and does not have the resources of the rest of the six kingdoms. They are. They are vulnerable and ripe for conquest gonna fuck the north. I also think, as free what do you think that they're not gonna be trading with the rest of west roasts, like, because he don't tr- because, because Iran islands are really known for trading. They pay the price. They take what is, there's now you have two armies, not now you have the iron islands and the three key who are people who are people who are known to be scavengers who just go around and take everything from people because that's in their culture. And now that everything is all apart. And separated, like I just think I just think I just think this is sloppy writing and season. Eight. Verge Martin would never write something like this. Because brand is too smart to allow this to just be to just allows us lot whole. I'm gonna I'm gonna time in here on this. So. We're looking at questions that have been created right now and I you can take any series and I just walked surge talking. I literally just came up with a few in my head, cool. All right. So we're watching sopranos Tony's under indictment. What's going to happen to him? We don't know because that's a question. That's Siri finale created. So we're going to look at age it's got a new job at a production company. I wonder what's going to happen to him as you can work in Hollywood. Is he going to become a movie producer? Is you're gonna be a bum like he's been for eight seasons. Let's look at breaking bad is Walter right? Really? Dead. Oh, what's going to happen to Jesse? He escaped these are questioned that every series for, oh, let's keep going the big Bank way. So I'll go interject here the questions year saying or individual character development, plots. What he's saying is the ending of, of game of supposed to give you a sense of peace through all the seven kingdoms this. On the question. There's literally no chance whatsoever. That's what I'm saying like that episode and his questions are very straight up straight up in there, and there should be asked but you can take. Yeah, any Cy because that episode those questions were in even something that outside of you, which, you know, your shit obviously because reading the books, I have not heard anyone brought up during those not those and the simple fact is onto don't happen to the swirly little design that the white walk. I that's what I wanna know. What does this worldly thing we haven't even started to talk about the white walkers, haven't even begun? So, but we're on the topic, but I'm like couple of series finale that I can think of right off the bat, like you're not a big bang theory fan, but the series finale with a solid finale. But it goes it goes into the so what happens to show another. He wants to Pulitzer with. Yes. Happen to Leonard now that pennies pregnant, oh, so like you have all these questions that are created series finales. It's fair like I hate Dexter, but Dexter the fucking lumberjack. Dexter, the series finales for for now. Yes. Series extras now a lumberjack. What is he going to do? You're going to remain a lumberjack is going to back to Miami, every Siri finale creates more question. I see your point. I see your point of the open ended nece, and that's great to have. I don't need closure for every everybody's story because is ever really closure in life as you, you know, there is a never a happy ending, especially in this series. But the decisions that were made where foolish things that. Would never happen if you're an intelligent leader, if people elected brands it'd be leader because he's a wise. They why would somebody so why let the death rocky just chill and do everything and allow the north to succeed and become as independent nation when, when the rest of the six kingdoms are, are not going to are not going to be cool with that. They're not going to be cool with that. The only reason why, why all the seven kingdoms became a United sort of kingdom is because of Aegon's conquest. That was the only reason because he had to conquer them all because they would not get along with each other. Now, the only kingdom in two seven kingdoms that was not conquered was Dorn Dohrn was the only, and this is the reason why Dorn has a different culture, speak in a different way. And they look at different way. They kind of look Hispanic. He and they'd have curly hair darker skin. But there's a. Reason because ethnically, they're different. Now. I will get into their culture and their customs and the reason why why how Sansa being Queen of the north goes against everything that in the books, and, and this is not a common to be sexist, but I'm going to I'm going to tell you about the history of the seven kingdoms and the reason why doesn't make any sense because of endorphin historically, they have had they've come from another continent. They were in, and they came over because of because of the slavery, and because of the dragon lords tried to enslave and they came over to, to west arose to start their own thing, and, and because of the desert, and because of the of the lay of the land, they were the only kingdom that, that all the tug Aryans were not able to conquer because all the dragons cannot cross cross all the desert's, the only way that the managed to get Dorn into the seven into the kingdoms as they said, listen, you have all your Martell. Your and your and your Princess and princesses. Let's try to get them into our areas altogether. Let's have can create a union to have babies that are, that are doing better or both are Dornoch and Tarbert, Ian. So we can kind of unite so we can next these kingdoms. It's the only part of the world that was not conquered. But they have they haven't invested interest like because we now because, now all of the sense of the Tarbert, Ian share in our in our bloodline now, that the Starks are kings Dorn has no reason to stay with the success kingdoms, because they were never conquered Vish. They were they were all in next, and they were like I'm cool being under your rule because you allow us to keep our culture and our language, and our people and the prince and princesses. But now that they no longer have a stake in it because because all the target areas are basically gone. Third gonna. Be chill with just. Oh, so the north concede because, because, because because you have the older sister, whose historic, and we're just going to sit back and let you guys like being dependent. And we're not gonna do anything about it. No way, bro. These other kingdoms are gonna keep invading other. And now that the six kingdoms do not are not in the north and the north are independent, who is to stop the rest of these kingdoms from going, and especially the iron islands who are pirates who pillage pun the who's going to stop them from going and invading. I'm just saying. Leaves open questions and I get it. And I'm okay with that. But these plot holes are things that would not ever happen, if you're, if you're accommodate leader, and you're good writer and you understand that you have to take these things into account before you do this kind of stuff, when you all expectation though from what you mentioned, even earlier is that, like the iron islands rebel every thirty years, something like that. Yeah. So it doesn't it the expectation that there's never going to be full peace in west rose. And there's always gonna be this. Whole question is you back. Never it's a revolving doors. It is sloppy it is sloppy because the were always be conflict in, in all of western, and they're always be conflict, and all the stuff. But also the way that the writers have written it up, and it's almost like he brand stark is the king sounds stark is the Queen of north, by the way, they have tried to have queens of west roast. They've tried to have target area in queens. And if you read a song of ice, I'm sorry if you read a world of ice and fire, and you will see that in the past hundreds of years in area, and rule, they have tried to do queens have tried to do queens and other areas that is not during during the only area where they have princesses that rule their land, because it's in their culture because they have a lot of, of, of leaders who were female who were who, who were who were very important in their culture. It's fine to have a woman leader. But in the rest of the kingdom's like the north like all other kingdoms. They will not abide by having a Queen female. It's not in their culture, all the other houses OB, like are you serious? We're not gonna Lau over like a female, a woman to rule us not because it's, it's sexist, but also it's their culture. It's, it's their way of being they would never allow that to happen. That would only happen in certain areas of the world like enduring that would only be acceptable there. But here's north into, here's during the it's, it's not even close. I think surges wrote the sequel series. I mean, may surged to enjoy our Martin a room together. Jersey to probably taking notes right now. He's from. So we do have to move on. Yeah. We're like early on this on the last season. So I do want to go into the good stuff of it. You know, the, the whole series wasn't no terrible as no no, no look. I still think that the show is, is phenomenal. And I think it will be considered, maybe like a top three top five of the greatest shows ever ran, in my do still think that it's in my top three let's talking about the our, our friends who are, are, are th- rocky, and let's talk about about about about the long night, and that whole battle. Well, we'll get we'll get into that because I do want to move on from that. We're going to get into the episodes in a second, okay? Let's get into some of the pros the pros of the entire show. Because I did want to. I don't want this episode of just beyond just we just. Yeah. So, especially since the show was so great. It was so I'm going to say some of the stuff. That I enjoyed in terms of will start with characters, and we don't dive into wife. We can just dive into that with if we talk about different moments throughout the show. So we're favorite characters might top three and you can actually. Give your say wife, what I don't think. Thank you for allowing me to speak. No. So favorite characters, I would have Arias my favorite, I think outside of Jamie. I think she's the best of Ella character on that show. Tyrian is despite little decisions that he makes the last season and seven he's does make untrue decisions. And those are my two favorite characters on that show and go ahead, John. Do you have any favorite characters say, Arias my favorite, of course? She's my favorite, I like that. We've been able to see her progression from the beginning of the show. And she got awkward. Sexiness. And HBO history. I really why was it awkward because you've seen her. Full when she watching, how old is being William Macy will feel right, watch it most good question of that. If we're all asking the same question means we all feel uncomfortable, watching, Google that, while I'm like, yes about to happen auto populated. I'm like, how old is wow. Everyone else is asking this question, female and definitely. Yeah. Cool character. I, hey, he was like, I'm about to die. I need to get as she was shooter. She's like how many women. I mean, venereal disease was very big back, then it's important to know I guess she. Let's be honest killed by something else like gonorrhea. I don't know what else. Well, she's my favorite, I would say, yeah, she's my favorite to rely on actually. Better. But she's still kind of search. I'm a fan of Seon great joy and Jamie Lantis, because I love, I love gray characters ironically, great joy, right? His name. Great grey, worm. Yeah. These characters that you, I had this impr- like, especially. Yeah, yeah. Sam's club. Sam. I like theon because he went from sort of a character that is kind of like a scummy, dude. But he's sort of on the good side, because he's with the stark going from going to see his father who we know had rebelled against Starks and, and the kingdom and he wants to prove himself because he grew up around all the Starks. And he so he never felt like he belongs. So he wants to prove to his birth family that he's, he's worthy. And did some fucked up shit that he regrets? And then he pays the price he gets tortured. He gets humiliated. He gets dehumanize until the point where he's he's, he's an animal and in slowly, he, he pays the price for his treasury. I like an he moves himself up and he redeems himself. And at the end when? Brand says like like you are my brother and like you like it basically, you have redeemed like he threw his actions, he's redeemed himself and it doesn't take away. The fact that he's done wrong things in his life. Minoso shows you that nobody is truly a villain or a hero and to, to be to in game of thrones. This is why at are stark got killed in the for got killed so early is because he was a pure good character. Yeah. You can't survive in the world. If you're that you're good. Yeah. You can't be pure good and do and, and go far you have to be people like theon gray Joel. You have to be like, Jamie Lancaster. Do you have to be like the engineers? You have to be that gray area where you have to. You have to be good. But also screw some people over, if you want to go up on the ladder. And that's why like theon because it's like he did bad, then he. Good. Then he KOTA. Benny? Then he's you know, still weak. But then eventually redeems and, and his death scene. He went out like a hero. And I also like a component hero. The full three sixty on it because at the end of the day he died. Protecting the people here regionally betray. Yes. I thought that was really a great end to store. It was alternately. It was who was his family being great joy, I'm being because because. In the books, describes that the how the great joys had rebelled against the kingdom as a punishment. They took they, they, they, they have theon as a captive to the Starks. But because it's kind of, but not really. But at our stark is such a nice dude, that he was like, I'm not going to treat them like a slave linka bad guy. I'm gonna treat them as if he's like a son of mine. So he grew up around his own star kids, as, if he were his family. So when he returned season to, to see his birth dad, his birthday is like you're not like like, like in that scene that he has on all the jewelry his that asked them. Have you paid the iron price for that jewelry, or did you pay the gold price? And he basically saying you forgotten your heritage. Yeah. You did not. He bought that jewelry. He didn't steal it. He's lost his culture. He's lost his way, so theon. We now. He's like I need to need to earn the honor and trust of my family. And that's why he. Did the things that he did? But then eventually throughout the seasons he learns his real family is are the Starks and that, and that he dies in, like in defense of the Starks. And that's why he's burried in the crypts in winter fell because even though he's not a stark in a way he is. Because he he he's like their family. So I thought, like I thought the way that season they handled his ark and historian the way it ends was beautiful. I loved it. So for me, my favorite human characters, you're going to be Jamie Lancaster, and in hormone term on giant Spain. And then the two characters shout out to geek out every time I saw them onscreen ghost Andro gone. Okay. I think those two like. Something we're gonna move on to some other good moments out something that I think none of us are talked about in. Danny's turn was that moment where? Fee on returns to winter fil and she sees Sanga, and they give each other this embrace of his love. Love each other. And then the camera, you know, me, I like look at the camera does immediately goes away from them. And Poitou Danny's face. Like I feel what I got from that. Why can't I have this? Yes. And that it was like pure love. It was just like affection like caring. I think correct me for, I think Danny knows with the has done to the Starks and the fact that she. Sansa just accepts him. It shows also love and also forgiveness. Absolutely. And the one thing that any has never really ever done. And I think that really adds to her turning and I just thought it right now what you were talking about. And I'm like, wait a minute. Why haven't we talked about that? That's another little moment season. That you're like if we wouldn't have got capitalize on these little thing than actually found them like coming together. There would've made the he'll turn that much more like, yeah. This is it would make anyone go crazy. So next thing you wanna talk about is our favorite moments on the show. I have five I didn't want because we could go through through these, like forever. Nine number five is more on the fucking. Glad he's dead is the death of Ramsay Bolton. My worst character on the show, despite would Jenny and debate. He's the worst Joffrey is like, oh, he's worse than way worse. I think than Ramsey, you don't agree with your face. It's tough. Ramsey. He's now Ramsey's like us sick cut beyond dick off. That he raped her. Like he got what he deserved like she got should have been the death at search got. He died under a pile of bricks with the same person. She came into this world, the person she, she is we never. I never got to comment on live, you'd mentioned her ending before a year like you can't get rid of addiction. You mentioned that before it was kind of like a diction, and I remember all the way back to the pilot where he pushed him. He's like things we do for love and he dies the things we do for love. He just goes back to her, and just forgets about everything I understand the reason why he went to see but. The death seem so Holly stupid. I I'm with you holding each other embracing each other as building falls on them. And oh funny. It's like an it's like is this really how they're going to go out? Dude funny story that you mentioned that if they would have moved tenths, the right. They would've lived in the series finale. No rocks and that all right. But keep going keep going speaking seriously. My number four favorite moment, on the show is actually sir, sir should rise in season six, which is one of my favorite episodes of wind of winter, where she destroys. Oh my God. What the queen's name Marjorie? Yeah. When she kills everyone there, and it's pretty much her revenge on everything that happened to issue pretty much doing that. Pretty much kills her son decide the fact that Thomas awesome self in jumps off the building, because of what happens is wife spent hassled. Score to that, that scene has been phenomenal. But then I understand sir sees turn, and it's not so much turn leppin. She's always been a little bit out there, but she's been more calculating in her approach of, of this, like her father like, like, like, like, like, like her, like her dad, who was. She was very calculating. And when she lost all her children, she lost her shit in became kind of chaotic. So I get I understand the, the progress of her character in Dinares. I feel like it was rushed feeling very. The moment and I think too will makes it more bad ass for me is that actually wrote this in my notes, like she's watching her enemies burn from a distance just doing what she always does. Smirking and drinking her wine. Well, my number three is subtle moment. And I, I watch any was catching up when she told me she was up to there. I'm like, yes. When or Leonard tyrod reveals to Jamie that she's the one that killed Joffrey such a fuck. Gene wants her Cedeno that did it. And I love desert character. Yeah. She's great. And we'll say as far as like female characters. He's one of the best on game of thrones. Like they've had I think it's been a TV show that has had consistently strong ribbon ambitious empowered characters to. Those that are complaining women will on the show. Especially for the fact that, like given the setting the environment that they're in for them to be so empowered in how they are or how, like, even is just subtle like, in the behind the scenes where they're not. It's not outright or someone. Yeah. Might be demanding of them. But then in the end they know how to turn their way it's believable. Like I like I like aria an Sanga and, how almost opposite. They are. But they still are very kind of strong to our own way, where where like aria kind of became like a swordsman assassin sort of train, and she became great that and Sanga became like her mom in a way where she was sort of like going up the ranks like in, like, like in, like in, in, in, like, like, in terms of like her like as, as like a trying to trying to find that word where like in power, like, in terms of like her. Stark. So earning earning her way up the ladder and, and using her power to kind of to manipulate those around her. So like her her, like her her killing Hercules of little thing, took my next line. This like this like it was fantastic. Master hockey relating, and just that, that was actually an honorable mention mentioned a whole roof, killing her aria plotting the way they got a little 'cause I fucking 'having, but then everything that he did. I don't know. Finger I didn't hate him because he was he was also he was very colon calculating. He was like the same as various, but he was more the I like various. But, but we're, we're, we're, we're, we're whereas in various, sir, his he would do things to serve the kingdom and with things to sort of himself. And that was the difference between those two characters. And so I, I like I like how Sonn aria kind of handled him. I it was very, very that makes sense. I get it. And then my number to favor moment on the show, those back to a moment and no one expected, no one saw coming. But everyone loves the purple wedding. I don't think anyone ever, no one saw an episode two of what I think is the best season on the series season for they're going to be like, by Joffrey. I think it was beautifully done. And in a moment that where we were at a time. Or we the internet and everyone loved everything about game of thrones at Dayton complain about this moment coming out of nowhere because no one's gonna tell me that this was that did came. And this led up to Joffrey dying. No one saw that come. I mean I read I read the folks. Coming. In terms of developing the show, your, your episode to, to the second of the four seasoning. You're like you're going to kill your villain was watching that when I was watching the episode on my also, you just killed your main villain. Where do you go from here who's going to take that? And obviously Ramsey came in and took full throttle. But it was beautiful because it's like getting lost like day. They, they had killed him and Moore Sela and, and the other boy, all three kids of like all her children are dead. And now she doesn't have anything. So it made her even and there and then like her walk of shame and all that. Like this, this is how you push a character over the edge this choice. Yes. Gradually like like how they said in, like in the show, chaos is a ladder lie. Right. Isn't that a quo? Chaos is a ladder. You don't just autumn. Like if you're married, you don't just. Why just kill landing right now? We're not going back to that. It's and her descent, a mad this was gradual. And that's why I think that's why I appreciate it. No. But like what, what makes here's my thing. So what makes a moment that no one expected that no one had Bill to because I can I can imagine if this particular death happened in season, eight and you take this exact same episode. And you put it in this season. People would rebidding. Oh. Well, we weren't no-one led to offer his death. There was no plan, build just fucking happen, right there. But what's the difference? It's all about placement of where you put certain episodes. This episode was put during the social media praise of game of thrones that Danny turn was put in the last episode before the series finale when everyone had, it was cool thing to bitch about game of thrones and complain about decisions that were made will make. And I'm asking you what makes this decision on the show. Eliminate the books right now book. Okay. We'll makes. This decision on the show a moment that happened early on in the season would no expectation with no no one saw it coming different when Danny turning, where there had been subtle, hints throughout seasons will makes this. So different where this one had less build for. Here's you want him dead. Here's a difference because Joffrey he was he was he was a king who was illegitimate. And the reason why all of the all of the was he sorry, you're was he, he was he was air, though where he was the product of Jamie, and sir. See having a child and this. All three of them were. And, and this is part of the reason why status and all these people, all them all went to war with each other. Because they all knew that because a Joffrey was not a legitimate king. Everybody hated him. It was a piece of shit, and even the people around him who in even on like the, the his Queen we married and all these other things. Everybody hated this guy. They wanted him go because they knew he was corrupt and he was, but almost evil and irredeemable. So anybody who was even in the inner circle they wanted him gone. How are you going to take a guy out, who who is like that, that you're gonna try to poison them and you're going to try to frame Tyrian because who else are you gonna frame that be very fine? The poisoning of it was great. It was more on the there. I'd have a problem with this, because I like that it came on. But the, the same things people were complaining about Danny's turn. No one's. Plane about how will how come there wasn't. Nope. There was no behind the scenes of talking about poisoning because because in Danny's turn was she went from a wanna go against the evil bad guys who are who are who are who are, are the Lancasters and a great and the great joys, and all these people at king's landing, let's go against them unless defeat them yesterday. We won. We win everything else is done. Then when she has king's landing then she kills everybody why, why why do that? Why do that? It was like it was like an instant. He'll turn. She doesn't like the sound of bills. It's legit. So she heard the bell, it was an instant turn, and it's like here we have a character that throughout the show throughout the season throughout the books has conquered whole bunch of different towns and cities in another continent and Esiason. Cartha marine all these other places. And when she took power, she put people underlings in power to keep the peace in the town, so that's levers don't become more powerful so that people aren't exploited. And she is basically like I come to save and to liberate, these people from oppression and I put people in power to prevent this from having and then she leaves. Why did she continue doing the same thing in king's landing and in west rose, and stead of doing that she straight up said, I'm killing everybody people that had no input into the corruption that all the Lancasters have done, and that, and that all the stuff like her her turn? It was. So it was so instant, it was abrupt in very strange, and it was almost out of character. And every going to make her mad Queen. I see the potential for her to become the mad Queen, but there has to be a like a slow kind of like, like a build up for that. And it didn't happen. It was it was like, we save the world against the night king, we save the world by bike by by by trying to kill every all the Lancasters. Now, what now I want to cleanse the world of I let's go kill everybody. And it's like that's not in her character. I've never won. I hope I get mad at this but it's just because I love she's my favorite character. And I just I know that the white Walker just hanging out there. How does she come out of nowhere? But her killing the night, king. And I posted a video of this when it reminded me of moments where people just stopped trying to fucking dissect everything and just enjoy the moment. It was crowds different crowds watching that episode and seeing aria. Oh, yeah. And everyone's just fucking going in crazy. I that's my favorite. I loved it. Good for. I am not. I did not like it. So you're telling me that aria spent all these years training in and try training and Bravo's and all these other countries to become like a like a swapping face Wapping person, and in, we can assume it's not on the screen, but we can assume that the way she got closer to the night king is by changing your face and getting closer and then eventually stabbing, you know, but, but we see her leap tree. Hop, eighty three in the air and just frigging stab some dude. And then the entire bro, we have the night she leapt he caught her. And then she just dropped the knife and use the other hand. Yeah. I mean it's not like she went like she started to. And then he so this guy with, with this guy who's a super villain, pretty much can withstand dragon fire the super powerful dude is not gonna as not gonna if you see a girl, flying a you eighty feet in the air and you choke, you're not going to take a look down and see. Oh, she has a Bulgarian steel blade? Might want wanna dodge that heating realize I in that moment. He's a super villain. And he. Estimator. Like this little chick coming at him like a girl on a more. On a more the same. We will Leon. Yeah. They didn't expect it. Yeah. She underestimated. And she. That's a great death. And she's like, no, I'm not gonna I'm gonna fight with my people. I think she might be my favorite Arias that easy one, but I think Leon. Favorite cheese, man. She's such a bad ass. And here's here's the other thing. Here's the other thing that really really remember. We are talking to buy showing that fucking dragons. Here's been disbelief. Correct. Here's the other thing that really bothered me throughout the entire show throughout all the books, we get an understanding as to why, why evils the way that it is how, how evil how how in manifest itself, and the reasons why these things come about we understand Jamie, and the reason why he becomes the way that he is. And we look at theon and the way that he does the things that he does the night, king, and the white and his ambi- Hort of, of countless, people are these two dimensional kind of bad guys that come out of nowhere, and their invading. And there's why are they doing this? But that's no premise. That's there's already that's different data different between having eleven to twelve hundred pages to write a book and you have a television show is a differ. You gotta differentiate you can't explain every fucking why he's taking a shit. Why the white rockers do what they do you have to, like you have to because then it becomes very boring show. But it's not very boring because all because all of the rest of the show if you've been very nuance, every ale if you're detail, but they do. Leave a lot of stuff out from research I've done from the books and yeah show because it goes to why do I love per does it and this is a perfect example. Because we got this one shore. A perfect pal to game thrones is Lord of the rings. I have never read bordering. I had to be honest. I will never reload of the rings. I just not a reader. I'm more. I watch film, and that's just what I do whatever Lord of the rings to me is a perfect trilogy. And what did they do? They left a lot of shit out of the books, but you watch so three movies back to back to back. It is a perfectly told story, despite that they don't answer every fucking question. You may have like why does Argonne become king? But what why why they answer it a little bit. But you're not getting a full two hour explanation as to why are gone needs to be carrying or whatever so bench. So then answer me this question. Then if, if, if the Nike hang and, and the others or white walkers as they call them on the show if they're this undeb army of millions of, of untold people, and we don't understand their premise. All we know is that they're bad under evil and they want to invade everything. We don't know why we don't know why. What we don't understand the reason. All we know is that they're invading. And there's no explanation behind why they are doing this now. The last episode John series finale, John is sent to the wall. Why what first of all, there's didn't they rebuild the wall? Big wake grease. See them walking out of the okay. To number two. Why are they building the wall when there are no more white walkers? There is no point Wild Wings. Are now are now understood to be that they're just a regular people. So if. Mandalay laughers combat. It could come back, but you want to be prepared. I mean, they, they always come that they always come back, and it's not the first time that they have come and, and the books says, like Amager years ago thousand years ago, they had invaded and, and Zora Zora, high whoever is the hero, who was promised, whatever who took them out, and it's happened before it's going to happen again. But, like, who were they live with the, my king as well, or was another leader of the whitewater? It was like it was just it's kind of unclear because it's all it's all totally in legends. But but it's also a hero. The prince that was promised and, and, and they stop that invasion, not surprised if the ever come back again. But why are they coming back? That was never explained. It's not that I needed to be explained because I like questions but also every bad guy like Jamie like theon like, like, sir. See we get to understand why vase high win. We get to know their motivation. Why don't we get to understand all the motivations of the white walkers? They're just they're just design from, like, in the Walking Dead. Yeah. And there's no understanding as to why they do things that they do. Now, I understand it was briefly talked about end the show that it's the children of the forest who created the when I understand from reading the books that the children of the forest and the first men and humans had a lot of beef and the reasons and the and the way that the children of the forest can fight back is creating the white, it's creating the others on the white walkers, creating them. I get it. But. But is there are the Thomas is the night, king. Does he have a plan? Is there a reason for the invasion? Can we understand a little bit about the motives? We got nothing of that in season. It we didn't get anything. Here's the other thing I love you. But we got a grill quick my favorite scenes. Battle the masters. I'm we have time using battle the bastards loved it. Favorite scene would be the infamous episode definitely gonna get into narrow when, when Ramsey throws up the arrow and you see a great, that's beautifully shot, so beautifully, honestly, because I thought you were gonna say this in the way you preface, it saying that the placement of the of the moment was so like it didn't expect it. Yeah. The beheading of of now. That's what started everything at that point. I'm like, what kind of show? I remember that like that shock factor. I think that's where game of thrones kind of went downhill a little was that, that shock factor changed for me. What I usually think game of thrones before you continue is a show that broke every television rule. Absolutely. Trying to think how to appropriately it's one of the shows that does everything TV shows should never do. Yeah. Or every rule that you thought you had to abide by lady there on it is it was a complete. It was almost like a paradigm shift in the way that we see because we always assume he's the hero he's gonna make it. So now he's going to he's going to slide through and he's gonna make it and no p gets Mertz thing and murked early. And people were like, we'll surely, he's gonna come back and no dad do and love beautiful because this was at this point, the only character that was pure good. Yes. Pure good. He's hero the honor. But the peer Liana real honorable guy gets a marked real fast. The red viper versus mountain beautiful because. Oh, fight man seeing viper goat. I'm actually gonna because the next thing we're in. It's all about the saddest moments on the show. And that's actually. Okay. Yeah, I think for me those surge I know you've been shitting. On the show, the whole over. Do you have any good on the show that you like on the show season? Eight show surge we've given up season. Eight a long time ago. I'm still not talking about anything. He's done trashing this whole. Time for that. They don't have time to. We can continue on a sidebar episode surge. Okay. No, no, you're, so here's bashing. I mean, everything in game of thrones, a lot of scenes lot of there you go. I'd like I'm not a hater of that. I know that I'm a huge fan, but this is why I'm so angry about a season because it's, it's like it's very obvious that the same person who wrote the books is not the people who wrote this whole season, and you can tell because of the drop equality of, of the contents of what is going on. That's why I'm upset but, but if you go from the first season to season number seven ish, you can tell. It's, it's amazing. It's beautiful everything about it makes a lot of sense. There's a lot of scenes man. There's a lot of great scenes. I love the scene when the Ayman, whose who was the old man, who was the sort of guy in the knights, who in the nights kind of in the watch that he's like this old man. And he's dying because he's a he's like an old man. Oh, and then he goes to John snow. And he says I had a dream that I was old. And if you read the books, and, you know, the history and, you know, the things that he's gone through, it's a very emotional scene, because the Ashley wrote a spin off a few novels of that same character as a little boy, younger, and he's because because he's demented. He's getting old, he's having a hallucination. It's not a hallucination. He thinks he is he thinks he's young and he's having a hallucination that he's an old man through and he saying. And he saying, I had a dream that I was old and this is kind of the last kind of things that he says, and then he dies and it's almost like yo like see died thinking he was young. He was young again, and he was smiling and happy and it hearkens a little a little back to how I felt about the and another spoiler alert of avengers, where how captain America comes back, but he never goes through time he spent his whole life, just living he lived his whole life, and he's like. Like he sort of like this old man. Now, who is happy and fulfilled? And he surprise. You're not mad that they didn't explain that. And ruin this not just showcase giant. Right now. I'm not being total. Look at the t- wreck. Sorry. Sorry MU I'm gonna look down. Yeah. So, like, you know, like there, there are a lot of things with rooms at our spectacular amazing, so Jenny. Do you have any good moments? You wanna talk about or not really right now and still very underwhelmed by this finale, talking about how did this happen? We got searched the focus, and now you're Jenny's. Bring it right back. Remember when I started the episode. I said, we're gonna talk about the great. Yes. Moments of the show anyone. Here's this is going to be like, I don't know. I'm gonna watch the Lille Dave or the other ones show. None. I'll anyway. I'm very underwhelmed by this. Goes back to his best to keep it real. Keep it Ray feel like I don't feel like I wasted my time. I don't feel like how people are like angry and like, oh my God, because I walk petition because. Dr here I'm not totally against petitions because I think they make a difference for certain shows you're money me seek let your way beak wi-fi. Now I'll pay. True like petitions help save certain shows. So, like, for example, Lucifer got cancelled by FOX and a petition came out and they were able to save it. They were able to save Nashville for like two more seasons for those fans that cared including my mother and then, you know like. Sometimes they do good. But then sometimes they're just really shitty petitions. And it is what it is overall. I think the series was fantastic. There were favorite moments any like anything female empowered where my favorite moments essentially. The Melissa my favorite moments too. Asandra, which one did this any time or naked onscreen, not me? All right. I love how sorry but I so enjoy when she came back and was like about to kill her. She basically like I'm not gonna make it through the day. Anyway. We're not gonna have to kill me. I'm already dead. And she knew she knew she was not gonna make it, and that was very powerful because his like she's in control of her destiny. She knows she's going to die and she's parade and she's going to go ahead and she's done. And like I thought like that was like that was ballsy. That's why she needed to hear. Needed to stay until this part do what she did. And then it was just her time to go their world. Though, because it was a lonely. I'm sure she was extremely lonely, no one left really old. And, you know, so at that point, it's like she knew this was her purpose are, so anyway, can make complete another small place. Okay. Sure. Sure. Season seven, they go to like a mind of dragging glasses, a whole drying last mine. Oh, these are the things that are going to kill the all all the white walkers. They never address it again. Nobody uses dragging glass, didn't the kid that are you must around with he weapons out of making. But, like just. Want them? Did you want seems of actually making the weapon or using them did? I mean really? Barely. Here's another thing. Here's another thing they run quickly but the long night, why would you send your horsemen? Yes. That's a dumb. I one hundred percent. Why would you do this? You send your send your infantry first. Then you send your cavalry is true. What would you send all your doth rocky first? And then you send the and makes no sense if you're a jackass, because families right? Essentially, they have families, but, like I wouldn't have charged I, I think there's a wait it out and wait it out. Yeah. And I think because complainer is something pro pro then you can't speak. No. Sorry. Sorry. I only thing they did that because it one of the most beautiful shots of the show. Little fucking cool. Gorgeous. So let's just move on, because we definitely got a move onto the next episode saddest moments in the show. I'm just gonna run quick. And if you guys have anything different chime in number five goes back to what you were saying Leo. And I know Jen things is sad. The explosion of over mortels head. Oh, bro. I read that in, in the book, and I was like, oh, hell no. And then I went back and read it again. So it's one of that. So it's one of the season that season specifically, one of the coolest characters on the show and the fact that, like he had victory and his hand hand the his era got the vessel but in a way he still won didn't he 'cause he did kill the mouth and, and he did mountain poison him. He he's Pacific -ly his poison so that can be as painful as possible. He wanted to cause them pain because because he killed like his little because he said like he killed his history. His family. I'm here to kill you. So he poisoned Pam, and even though. Over in died, he still causing a men's pain in the mountain and kill them. But we didn't expect him to come back as zombie. That's another moment. I did like the mountain versus how I thought that was amazing. That was awesome. That was also game Bose people call it gla GameBoy game. So my number four actually goes into one of my favorite episode stew is chase testimony. When -tarian demands trial by combat Tyrians faced a hit his like he lost the person he loved, like she doesn't care. She Madrid him without even thinking twice is awesome. Number three is, I think January and I never pronounce her name Ray eager to death. Oh, nice. And then her final line before she dies. She tells Johnston that he knows nothing. That's pretty sad. No, he does. No, nothing. He does. He can do nothing for all of the number to the show number twos. Riding the red wedding. Everybody was, like so all these four that I've mentioned where sad, but they did not make ball like a fucking baby. I number one and I you guys will disagree. It's I don't care. I just like to this day. I disagree that is not your my thought about like me cry, and I remember of you guys, but my number one satisfied, went on the fucking show, and hoard ores death. That would. Yes, yeah, this Royd me him because he didn't deserve to die like that. You know what I mean? Is there today period man he was trying to help fucking brand? Just funny. Church said he was he your good pure hues, probably outside of Ned, probably the most until that point them of Purity's good and Sam sandy only pure good. When they're here's a fact. I don't know if we knew that, that actor is a DJ huge DJ. He's. Troy or is no he's coming to jersey coming AC in going dirty thirty. You guys downs. Search is going to go in there with a book of complaints that he's I I wanna speak to you. My complete died on their back. This pump with blades of draft. So that goes back to the score of the show. Go playing such a really great. Impact on this scene into and just a review of Hortas origin him just saying hold it or an in the episode ending with whore, Don. Here's the here's the one thing that I wanna speculate on and I don't feel great about. But here's the thing, we know that the author has two more other novels that are left in the story, if we to more that he says that, and, and if the novel that is coming out covers everything up until the invasion of the way of the of the others of, of the walkers, others. I think lost. No. Yeah, no. And that's the reason that they changed the from the others to the other name is because the others it was already taken. But in the books, they're all known as others. If the if that novel ends on, on the victory against against the others are designed army and the night, king. Then that means that his final book. That is a dream of spring, the final novel OSHA will be based on just two episodes of game of thrones. Yeah. And it goes back to what we also trust. And, and he still says he has like three thousand pages, he still has the right. So if if, if, if, if the novel is coming up now covers everything up until that invasion of, of, of these other Samis winter fell and victory on that. So that means that there are two more episodes, that are left that he needs to cover in how many, how many thousands of pages. So I don't think the ending of the books will be like the ending of the show all I think it's going to be completely different one hundred per. Well, we'll never find out so well we will because he's I mean. Listen, he's going to be in his nineties. Bet right here he has written the book the show started with these five ready done. He has written once in eight years show, the Ashley started. With four of them completed and like around season four or five. He wrote another one, and we've been waiting ever since damn. So do you guys have any other sad moments on the show or that it's over man is just a whole thing that sad? It's over. Yeah. I mean it was a good. It was a great show. It's funny because I like surge read the books, right? Like so you must have been super like excited to see. Here's like I binged it. So I think I've binged like season four and five. So, like, when I watched it straight through, like I don't really remember the differences between the season's just remember as one giant season, and it was such a awesome show, just so different. So fresh, the fact that no one was safe. Just kept me constantly on like edge. Yeah. I'm bummed at Zahn I needed a replacement because I'm not a show TV gun. I've said this on here, I needed something. And this is before I started watching breaking bad breaking bad as a show. I been it was up to season four and insert put me on bench through it. I couldn't find it should replace it. Sopranos man. I kept looking at looking at it was nothing 'cause I've just like it takes me for me. I hate dedicating myself to show and a show get canceled or show. And I bought this first season on DVD on Ray when I heard that it was really good. And I was let me give us a shout. Let me give shot and I love with it, and I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this. I'm just going to go go along with it. And I mean, I'm happy with everything. So, and I'm just had it's gone too. I mean, there's the next thing that I'm looking forward to his watchman and knock Tober. And I know people are going to let me let me prep you surge. This has nothing to do this has nothing to do with alum more story. I'm so just letting you know, here's here's the thing. I know it's not related to Allenton to his areso comic. But the person who's writing the show. The writer of the show is, is Damon Damon, Damon L Lindelof fat loss that guy wrote law. I'll probably hate it. I wrote me watch. I got to know. There's no. Over's the sky is a talented writer, there's anybody who can pull the show off. Is that guy? So I'm very, very exciting. End of game of thrones. I felt exactly the way I felt for lost. I felt very underwhelming. The law Spinelli really good you, right? Because I felt like like lost. I own it. Like I love the show throughout I watched straight up and I actually came to like, really late. And I just binged it like right before the last season. And then we get to the last season. I'm watching. Ending and I'm like, okay, I guess, but it still didn't take away from everything else. I loved about it before, and all the other actors and characters that were on it and the story lines. But here I was just like and my favorite part is how the end the episode itself because it mirrors back to the first episode, but it's not a shot of game of thrones. Also, the final Charlotte game of thrones. Yeah. So I like when shows do that when they mirror and I feel like that helps conclude it but I felt exactly the same way I felt very underwhelmed now for like Dexter felt very angry. I'm still angry. Over watch like Schiff and Ali. And then it was like. But like lost and game of thrones. That's how I feel very underwhelming. I'd have to rewatch it again. Like rewatch seasons again or rewatch finale, again, and see amazing shows underwhelming for me, unless it's less. It's breaking the greatest series finale of all time and not think anything will touch it. I feel. Stories and over man. It's over. I, he know what men if you know, the podcast, yes or no other plot. Consider we bash the show like crazy today. Yeah. So, so, like if you had like one elevator pitch to convince someone to watch game of thrones and what would it be expect the unexpected though, that any? Do not get attached to anyone. Oh, nice. Prepare to be disappointed. None of them to no, no, no, no, no, no, I, I want to be clear. I was not a fan of season eight but that's not to say that I'm not a huge fan of this entire gigantic fan. Expect to see characters. Be portrayed in a realistic way. If you were in a position of power if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're playing it's like how says you in the game of thrones you win, or you die. And this is a recurring theme in the show. You win the game of thrones. You get Merck real fast. And every character is aiming for power. And if you don't fuck people over in this game, you're gonna get murked so like, and it's like that's good. Look, as sir. See you look, Jamie. You look at fee on you look at Stark's you look at everybody, everybody who was vying for power. They all get screwed over. They all they all get screwed. Because in the game of thrones who make it or you die. And everyone everyone plays the game. Everyone is they all suffer. And I'll go really frat boy boobs dragons and booze battle. Like other. Sorry is another show that is like lost that started incredibly amazing. And then season four it was like, why am I watching this show? And then just finish up because I'm gonna go through my favorite. So my favorite episodes, and we'll call her today. I'm going to give some honorable mentions. I have to I have. I think it's Baylor Rabab Ballard season. One episode nine going back to what you said. It's the moment that game thrones told its audience, expect the unexpected when they kill him that I was shocked by and to counter something that I do wanna mention my another honorable mention I'm gonna throw some love towards serious finale. And for this reason this reason that known talked about game of thrones is always known for their big impactful episode to be the second to last episode every season, except the winds of winter, which is episode ten of season six which which is the title of his next novel, by the way. So the winds of winter when we're when we're looking at the overall spectrum spectrum of eight season finales. I feel that this series finales, probably the second best all the season finales. If we look at just the last episode and make sense because because everything happens in episode nine but no one's really talking about that just want to put that out there. And I also really enjoy the series finale for this reason something, none of us talked about yet. And it's something that predictive when we were just bullshitting on Facebook, the dish, I predicted that the iron throne would be destroyed. And we also we've been talking about for the last almost two hours about different villains in different perspectives of different characters and stuff like that. So I personally feel that I really love the imagery, and the representation of destruction of the throne because watching the show and see where it was going. I've, I've really felt strongly that this show makes you think that more than any other show that I've seen in a long time for this reason industries, only the true villain of this show was that throwing it was never. It was never certainly never Joffrey was ever Ramsey. And that's why these characters are irreplaceable because the iron throne led to war, the iron throne lent to greed ju- jealousy to every feeling that Harare. Anne had before she did wish jealous of John snow being Iraq air or sir say, feeling some type of way because Marjorie was on thrown because of the prophecy of there will be a younger Queen that takes you down. That was in beautiful waster, prophecy, was completed when he took over when killed I deserve. I that I read a me Mon line that has exa- echoes, exactly what you said that wins Rolon came like it was a hot that he realized that would killed his clean was not John. Yep. It was the throne, and that's why he unleashes flames on that. And that, that moment watching that final episode. I knew that no matter what happened next. I was going to be satisfied because I just needed the symbol of evil quote unquote for that entire series to be destroyed beautiful. So when you're looking at this entire series and a lot of people that are unlike served which I am thankful that he came on through because he gave it perspective that the three of us made I and I'm grateful for it because he is the first person I talked about the series finales, that has not liked it. That has literally came to play with. Without being prepared rematch. If he was. But if you know it's like the whole the whole, I throw the symbolism of the iron throne being destroyed their like, but it's not you don't get it. I'm like minot I don't know. I don't think you get because the show ends Brannagh's king. And everyone's like oh, you know, I don't like 'em like that. You don't get him and it's not about to fucking king drogue and killed the game of thrones. There you go. It was the iron throne that everybody is vying for an instead of getting angry at John. He killed the throne because now no one now now we know brand is king in some capacity, but how that's gonna play out. I don't know. We'll find out twenty five. I hope in, I hope it ends like this. And we don't have a sequel done. I hope we never have a sequel and with REO going to the west of west arose, we could. They're getting there is. Here's the thing. That'd be great. I've read the books and there, and there is absolutely enough in the books to create a free qual absolutely enough in there to make a good free qual with, with. There are two ways you can do prequels do Aegon's conquest, that would be amazing or you can do Robert's rebellion you could do either of those two. And if you do Robert his rebellion, you can get a young Jamie Lancaster young at are stark a young robber. And all those guys and it would still work. Or do we really want to see it? Do need to see if it's basically. See if it's based on the books and George. Sanctions? Any says, I like this. This is the way that we should do it, and he has his handed it. I will watch it if it's based on just let's do something crazy than I don't wanna let it. So we'll see what happens here. And then just to run down my ten. My number ten is the door just mentioning towards debt just episode in general. I really enjoyed that one. My number nine is actually the pilot because if it wasn't for the pilot I wouldn't have been hooked. I'm not really into these type of shows despite me loving Lord of the rings. I'm just TV show is that never type of episodes? I mean shows and just seeing everything that happened to being introduce all these characters and episode one brought me completely and. Let me see number eight, I have the lion and the rose aka the purple wedding. Just kind of what we talked about, before it's something you didn't expect to happen and killed my most disliked character on the show. My number seven actually is from this season and it's episode to a night of the seven kingdoms one, because brand deserve the fuck out of that. And number two, I really liked the idea of what do you do the day before you may? You know, you may die and you see everyone from REO like doing what she did too bad. Well, yeah. From Bryanne, Bryanne -tarian, and John just hanging out drinking like you see everyone's perspective. And I thought that was really human. That is not loved. I think that is a fantastic episode. And I thought it was I'm sorry to interrupt, but I think that it was it was it was very important that it was Jamie. Who? No, I agree. I think it was very important that he did it. And because because he was the only one that gave her that Chan and the respect and the respect ironically, because if you if you remember he's in two and three heat the shot like her. And but, but they, but as he grew as a character, he saw her Merita, and he was, like you are the person who deserves this, and he knighted her, and I thought it was cool. And so I love that whole scene. But I was a little boy, I get she was filling out his part in the book, she needed to create her own page. Instead of filling his she could fill out because it goes back to an earlier episode where like the Lord commander is the one that fills out that page person before. Yup. Yup. But I want her just to start her as she probably will shit, and she probably will assume I wanted them to be about, Jamie. Good closure because of the way like we just saw him in the last episode like died. So I thought that was some nice closure that, like where she's like, you know, he died protecting his Queen leaves it open to where she in the future can have our own page but I thought it was very beautiful. Because again, it goes back to the scene where it's Joffrey and Jamie, and Joffrey. It was like, hey, uncle anything on your page. You're only known for being a king slayer and he looks at the paper and he's like fuck. He's right for nothing. And then re and is writing his accomplishments, and it's like even after his death. He gets his accomplishments. He guest, he's, he's redeemed and at the end she put a hit it and quit it. All right. So my number six ago, real quick is actually two four two four because I think these episodes, go hand in hand episodes, four episodes, six, which is. The trial by combat where. Oh, Tyrians trial. And I think that is the show it's the altering moment for -tarian as a character on that show. And it's fucking Peter Gingrich's most bad ass moment on that show, and then going coinciding with the actual battle, which is the mountain in the viper going into the top five. The winds of winter, which is so the seas- season six episode ten Surtees declared Queen after she murders a high Sparrow marchers. Marjorie taro and a host of other nobles, and then you see Brandis covers truth of Johnson's lineage, a lot of stuff happened into Nariosa makes Tyrian, the new handle the Queen, and they set a sale, which I really like the whole ending their number four is the reins of customer, which is the red wedding. Nothing else needs to be said. They're my number three is hard home. Ooh. Emphasis is probably my top. The first time Justin faces off against the night game, which is a moment, self the action. A special effects are on kind of one of those moments you're like, oh, when we get more bad as I wonder what they're gonna do. Yeah. Which takes me to number two, which is the long night, we've already dissected that one. I just love that the only despite people complaining about dark. I love the symbolism of the only light that using the show and that is fire and ice and makes perfect perfect. Beautiful. My number one is about all the bastards tossed. I toss the term between battle of Astros along night. I think it's one eight won't be for me. I the battle the bastard is just. Amazing to watch and I think the payoff to, I think I picked it over a just because while the night, king. I never I love, it's my favorite aria, towing liking the payoff of Ramsey's debt is much for days, the Nike so that those are my top ten if you guys have any more to add where I agree with everything you just said right now. Yeah, for sure. Let me ask you about the I guess, the battle the bastards and the long night, because both episodes were one of those episodes where it's like you knew it was coming. It was hyped by media before the episode happened. Right. So there's a lot of advertising that this episode is going to be this. Okay. So would you say because I think the reason I prefer about, oh, the passers that the it lived up to my expectations of what the episode was going to be. Whereas the long night, didn't really pay a little of what I thought the day. But this was going to be the do you think that's the same for you? Or did you think both of them were like I was hyped. This is exactly what I wanted the battle the battle, the bastards. I really didn't pay attention the hype. I think there was more high for long night, but to be honest. Why, why impacted me more is because I didn't pay attention to the hype because of a movie that just released the same week. I was like so more concentrate on game to be honest leading care about the hype of wins a win. I mean the long night, I was more on the let's see the shit fuck and finally owed out, so and what I really loved about the. That some people I didn't like is. I like that. It's despite it's an eighty minute episode. It's literally split out into sections. Yeah. That beginning that you guys over, like I think was what done for the cinematography if anything. But because it set that first section of the episode, then you have the second, and then you have the third with the score that plays out and no more. There's dial legislated. I it's just very thin rallying for those last ten minutes into we get aria killing the Nike. I think it was beautifully done because it was able to because if you get an eighty minute episode of just like Brown and bam. Bam, you don't have an in between her filter it gets boring, and you really don't have a reason to keep watching, I can go to the bathroom now. But no, the fact that it's, it's sectioned off due to a section of it felt like a horror movie where Arias like being the high holidays library. I thought that was really well done. So, yeah. So that's okay. I guess more because of an game was around that. I really didn't. Really care about the height. We're all I it will go down as one of the greatest shows ever made. Let's, I would I'm going to stick around for the real ending and the books if they ever come out. But here's here's the final final final final final final thing about these about the final episode that was kind of dumb Bron Brun Bron the master it's fly is Braun. I love Ron he's. He's amazing. Why back? Why is Joe Astor of coin? That's he's thinking if if the kingdom is fascist. Of course, if the kingdom is an ashes are you gonna put that guy in front of horse? Oh as master of coin flip. It'll bring back the economy's gonna put just the brothel xactly in the economy. Who's? Everyone's ashes. I laughed I laughed, because you can tell like in a comedic wait, there's going to be so much beep between brands all much on, I died when she was like, no, we need to get everything else. But the brothels. I thought it was like that's knee trying to explain to you every time you wanna buy around every time you wanna buy a pair of sneakers, and, like, no, we need a couch like these are things overall, I think, game of thrones to me is the it was a competition to be the green and show time or not there. It is not my I love Davos didn't know how to read or anything became like. Grammar not grabber Nazi but to finish off. It's my number three best written show of all time. Breaking bad as number one sopranos, number two, okay? In terms of greatest shows of all time, I put sopranos number one breaking bad. Number two, I actually would put break a game of thrones. Number three, I have no argument against that. That sounds good. I we do another episode of like greatest shows of all time. Still my favorite show and Janis show. Still, I love Lucy just wanna put it out there. But, like, in terms of actual like that's different. That's a different type. Yes. But in terms of like the greatest shows of all time, I think those three are going to be talked. You're going to be debating that forever. So with that being said, search I hope you stick around for an x episode because we're going to talk about a subject completely different that Star Wars Episode one, the Phantom Menace. Oh, that movie was so bad. Well, right wait in, that's, that's a yes. And now we talked about how bad it. We'll see you in a few kids.

John Danny Jamie John snow Aegon west rose Hollywood Tyrian Dorn Dohrn George Ned stark king SAM Jamie Lancaster rape Donald Shoup Ryan Neri Carthage
200: How to Deal with Retroactive Jealousy | Feedback Friday

The Jordan Harbinger Show

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

200: How to Deal with Retroactive Jealousy | Feedback Friday

"Welcome to feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan harbinger. And I'm here with producer Jason to Filipo here on the Jordan harbinger show. We love having conversations with our fascinating guests and this week, we had my good friend, Mark Manson, one of the best selling authors of the decade with his previous book, the subtle art of not giving an F we get into in. Look, he invented putting that on the cover. I know what you're thinking, like go one of those. No, this is he originated it. Everyone else followed suit because of the success of this book, we get into a great conversation about how us humans find meaning in why this the way that we find meaning actually leads us to be such miserable, a-hole sometimes. And of course, we'll talk about what we can do about this. We all said my other good friend, remit say t- one of my first podcast guests ever twelve plus years ago. He came to visit, we had another great conversation about how to think about money. Automate finances, and think about value in our lives, so that we can optimize not only are financial situation, but our enjoyment of the resources that we do have. So there's a lot of. Collagen. They're not just like make a budget and cut back on lot, as, in fact, he takes serious issue with that kind of advice. And both of these guys are so frigging smart. And I just love it. When I get a chance to sit down and be in the mix with people as sharp as them. So their work is really worthwhile in those conversations are really worthwhile in my opinion. I also write every so often on the blog the latest post is about how to find a mentor and make the most of the relationship. This is one of the most requested topics that I've written about recently and that's on the website at Jordan harbinger dot com slash articles. So make sure you go back and have a listen to those episodes, and have a look at that article, of course, in our primary mission always is to pass along experiences and insights to you and we love having conversations directly with you in a way here. And that's what we're doing today on feedback Friday. You can reach us Friday at Jordan harbinger dot com. And if you can keep it moderate in length. It always helps us out the wall of text is a little intimidating. Sometimes Jason, what's new? What's going on in your world man? Dude. I don't know if you noticed but this is episode two hundred. You know, I didn't notice until we started doing this, and I went wait two hundred two hundred after we start from starting from zero. Yep. We made it. Yeah. This far we've barely been doing this for a year at this point. I mean, the new show, of course we've this is our twelfth year that we're in now. Yeah. Yeah. Are we in the thirteenth year and it will do that? Meth later is a deal. It's been a long time. Been a long time. The I gotta I gotta go back and do some subtraction. Some complicated subtraction. When I when we get off the Mike here. Yeah, wow. Two hundred. Good. I'm you know, I'm grateful to hear this and look at the show recently and I just think we've had some pretty dang good conversations. We've had some great guests on. And we have a lot of attention on us right now from people that matter that can help us get even more. Interesting conversations go, and so there's a lot that we can work with this year. I'm excited for the next hundred because it seems like episode one hundred we were getting back into. Our stride episode two hundred really hitting it. So it's always exciting to see the evolution of the show, and people people are very supportive of it. So I think everyone that is sitting here listening to this right now as well, and I want to respect their time by getting to the first thing at mailbag, high Jordan. Jason Jen, I have a secret that I've never shared with anyone. My parents are first cousins. My parents told me when I was eleven or twelve years old, and I hate carrying this around with me. But the thought of sharing this with anyone who knows me personally makes me extremely uncomfortable. My boyfriend of four years knows almost everything about me, except for this. I can't bring myself to tell anyone about this. I shared this information with some friends in middle school. Not knowing what I was doing in. Suffice it to say that it was a bad idea. And I regretted it I just feel a lot of shame over this, because although it wasn't anything that I had any control over. It is somewhat tied to my identity. Do I have to tell my future partner and family about this? I feel that with the growing prevalence of DNA testing. This kind of information is bound to be discovered eventually in, I don't want my. Future family and kids to think I kept this from them. However, I also don't think this truly matters in terms of raising a family first cousins are not that close in both my sister, and I turned out to be completely healthy carry this for over a decade, and I've never known what to do with it. Thank you. All so much for all that you do best weighed down. Yikes. I'm, I'm sort of confused how this would happen. But I guess it's not sibling stuff. It's cousin stuff, which actually is super super common, especially back in the day, Queen Victoria, Charles, Darwin, Albert Einstein. They all married their first cousins, and turns out the risk of any genetic issue is very rare, the problems arise from recessive genes, which don't really affect people with single copies. It's when you have that dual recessive, and there's a lot of populations that are more inbred that have that, but anyway, I mean, I know how this might have happened. I'm just curious how it all went down in wasn't. Nipped in the bud. I mean you hear about this kind of thing, but, you know, you you rarely ever hear. Well, I guess you don't hear firsthand because maybe now because it doesn't happen. But because people go I'm not telling people about this. Yeah, that seems like it. Yeah, that does seem more likely so all right? So you're right here. You don't want to hide something. And then have it causes us later on. But what you do want to do is go get some genetic screening, and make sure you're not carrying some recessive dole recessive, trait that could cause problems later when you have your own kids, you know, you're not marrying, your sister or something. You know, pulling Jamie Lancaster, so you should be okay. The real genetic threat for most situations like this is between closer relatives. So cousins can as far as I know still have some danger of recessive traits, but it's much more rare and it really does sound country though, so I get where she's coming from where he's coming from here. I get why you might not wanna be super public about this and we're all adults now. So if you're thinking about getting hitched and having kids, you should just be more open about this in a. You're not it's not middle school where this is going to slip out and everyone's gonna find out no about it. It's something you can speak to your significant other. It'd be like this is highly confidential and highly embarrassing. But the practicalities here say we should get genetic screening because this random low occurrence thing could happen, and we might want to be careful about it. So get it from Dr though, don't get don't get your genetic screening from spit test that you take over the internet in the reason, isn't because they're super on accurate ally to you. It's because at doctors responsible for saying I've found something and here it is. Whereas these genetic tests on the internet, I think are kind of, like, here's your genome. You're welcome. Bye. Right. A you, you need to make sure that you're healthy. So this way when you go. Tell your boyfriend you can Kavi out the whole thing with some you caveat. The whole thing was like, all right. This might sound weird. But I'm all good. And I got genetic screening, and I have a clean Bill of health from my doctor. So it's nothing to worry about, but I don't want you to find out later that my parents are cousins. What do you what do you want for lunch or something like that? Slighted in there. And sure your boyfriend might not be able to get that one banjo riff from deliverance out of his head for a couple of days. He loves you and should be able to get over this as long as it's not gonna cause health problems with his kids later on down the line. And even if there is some danger that there's ways around all of that, of course, and I totally get why you've kept this a secret. And I suppose what's important is that you're healthy. And that your family was supportive growing up. So who cares if there, if they were cousins, Jason, let me get that riff one more time. I know just for me, this isn't something that would bother me in the least in. Oh I it happens. No big. I can understand why you know, she's upset about it and wants to get it out there, not have this secret overhead, which I think, is the more important thing for her health down. The line is just the stress of keeping that secret can actually cause more health problems than anything else, totally. I can imagine someone telling me this and being like, well, it's a little weird that ideal, but it's not gonna affect the health of everything. So whatever. And then you just kind of forget about it, but someone holding that secret for twenty years, and hoping, nobody else finds out and then the other person's like why did you hide that? And you're just thinking, wow. The amount of sleepless nights it, you, you'll shorten your lifespan, keeping a secret like that. Yeah. And it's not worth it. No, you can get that conversation over with fifteen minutes. I think yeah. Honestly, if any of my girlfriends ever told me that it'd be like big whoop. Yeah, it's a it's not like I said, it's not a Lancaster. So it's not that big of a deal though there's no Joffrey coming out of this. Right. That's right. All right. Next up. Hey, Jordan, two months ago. A creep from my girlfriend's old high school job, contacted her asking if he could rub her feet for five hundred dollars a week. Okay. He promised it would be nothing sexual I highly doubt that she said no way, I gave him a call and gave him a piece of my mind. He ended up apologizing in asked if he could take us out to dinner in a kind of desperate unhinged way. I respectfully declined since then she's been contacted by two more. Creeps asking if she could financially dominate them. What is financially dominating mean, I think what he's saying is they would pay her for, for her to dominate that. I, I don't know. But I can only assume what he meant was. They're willing to pay for her to dominate them. Not. She's gonna financially dominate them. Yeah. It was it was odd to, to financially dominate them to scratch their humiliation. She either ignores them or kindly declines her phone numbers posted publicly online, because she's a real estate agent. I'm wondering if some creep posted her in a form for these kinds of fetishes online. I can't think of any other way these weirdoes are finding her. Lastly her job requires her to visit. Empty homes, one on one with clients. Oh, it's very easy for a stranger to bookish showing with her at a meet her alone. In a house. I bought her a taser and try to go with her to each showing our open house, but I can't always be with her. How should I handle this into help keep her safe in relieve myself of the worry that one of these creeps will bring her harm? Thanks. Sincerely, antichrist punter. So this is a really strange one and here's the thing you should report these occurrences to the police when they happen and make a note of this when it happens. Each time along with the numbers that they come from, and we know from our Joan of our episode and our Gavin. Becker episodes, that the only way to deal with some things like this are to completely ignore the communication, and she also needs to make sure she's keeping a log of who comes to the home in win. Maybe use a Google doc so that someone else has access it's not just sitting on her phone or her laptop, maybe you have access maybe someone else in the office has access probably you, but also since she's showing homes for people these people. Will often have wifi in the home. Right. Unless it's new construction never had attendant chances are the, the internet still going, she can purchase a drop Cam, she can get a nest Cam or another device in look, if they don't have internet tether, create a wifi network with your phone or get one of those little mobile hotspots, or something like that. It's cheap security, yet, those are like forty bucks a month. Get a drop Cam in nest, Cam, some other device, make sure they're mounted and pointed at the door the front door and make them totally obvious. So that people see them when they walk in, and if people ask, and even if they don't ask you can say, oh, yeah, we're monitored twenty four seven for security purposes for normal people, they'll just like, okay, cool, whatever. But for a potential creep, this should be enough to, to scare them a little bit. Right. If I walk in and I'm staring at a drop Cam. And I'm thinking I'm gonna steal this woman's laptop. The first thing I do is say, oh, sorry, I got a call from the office. I gotta go. I'll come back another time. And then never co go back again. Right. I I'm going up the jig is up immediately. So this works when she's showing an. In house, but it won't work when she's driving someone around doing a showing other showings, I get that when she's doing that she should consider something like asking for someone's driver's license when they first meet so that she can make sure she's got all the info down correctly. If someone's scoffs, she can simply say, look, it's company policy for me to take that info. We don't use it for marketing, I think normal people again, will be pretty okay with this. Yeah, you'll get some privacy nuts, but you convince a look, you know, I'm, I'm a single woman, taking people around privately. So this is part of my own safety. If they don't get it after that, if that's like the third rung, because you want to scare away your customers, but if they don't get it after that, then, you know, how, how worth it is it for you to be nervous the entire time. Right. And that said, if someone's a predator, they might not even care. They, they're a danger to anyone especially alone female on a job like this, regardless of whether or not her number ended up on a foot fetish site, I would ask have you run searches for her number online. You know what? About her name. Do you have Google alerts set up for that because you might find something strange or creepy online that you can then say, hey, this person posted my phone number and a lot of times the administer administrators of these boards. These weird message boards. They don't wanna get sued, you know, it's a fetish thing, but they don't wanna get shut down. So they might be like, oh, this is listed as something else, like massage place or whatever let me delete that, you know, you can you can ask them to do that. They might not reply, but they might in that said, I want to caveat this, because just because some people are creepy, or they have a fetish doesn't mean that they're dangerous. You know, there's a lot of people that have these fetishes that watch this stuff that are not like dangerous to society. It's just a little strange. And of course, the ones calling a random number. You don't know what her numbers listed as it could be like a foot fetish of phone sex girl phone, number toes us. You know, toes are us it, it might not say, here's this real estate agent, I knew in high school call and scare her. You know, the, the they might not know what they're getting into so. You don't have to worry that just because someone may be seems a bit pathetic in their approach. It doesn't mean that they're going to become a stalker or something like that, like this guy desperately asking you to dinner. He sounds lonely, right? It sounds like he's lonely and strange. However, is still completely understand why you're worried about this. I would be worried about this as well. If I were in your shoes in the best thing you can do is take precautions. You're used the Google doc, get their info. Put the wifi cameras in the open house. Another thing I would consider, especially when she's doing showings in driving around their dash cams, you can find these on Amazon. There are other places near you that will professionally install a dash Cam that they carry they look great. They don't have wires going everywhere. They basically will replace the rear view mirror or hang from it. They're not expensive there noticeable enough that when someone gets in the car, they'll go, oh, there's a da-. Oh, there's a car Cameron here, and it can film everyone in the car. You can have a passenger Cam, they make these now that everyone's driving Uber lift, they make these specifically now for that market. And she. Can also say, oh, don't mind my weird rear view mirror people. Always ask. It's a dash Cam at films, the inside and the outside of the car in case, I get hit while driving, or even while. I'm parked of never can be too careful never had to use it thankfully, and anybody who's a predator in that situation and doesn't wanna get caught is going to think twice because now they're already on camera. It's time stamped, you know she could say yet records directly to the cloud. I mean you can just say whatever the hell, you want at that point. Right. And this will definitely give someone pause knowing they're already on camera, the second, they get in a car and that footage could be in the cloud. This one gives me a little bit of the creeps. So I definitely feel you on this and speaking of feeling you can rub your ear lobes for one hundred dollars south, and sexual, I promise you just have really nice your loves, and you said, you bought her a taser, make sure she's practiced with it in knows how to use it because, you know, just because she has one and is never used it you want. You wanted to have muscle memory and practise without just like any weapon that you own you need to train with it, and you need to know exactly how it feels. What it's going to do? And make sure that she is very comfortable with it because if she pulls it out doesn't know what she's doing somebody else. Could take it from her and use it on her because that's usually what happens. So get trained up on that for sure. I'm sure they have classes where you bought it or if not go check out the local gun ranges, because I'm sure they're going to have classes. Yeah. Good. Good. Take on that. That makes sense. I think a lot of people with weapons guns, tasers, otherwise. They just ended up shooting themselves or, or losing it or not knowing how to turn it on and hurry. Exactly. That's why you want to get muscle memory around that you want to be able to take it out. You wanna have it in a, in a place that is acceptable at all times, NBA to pull it out. Engage it use it and get away. This is feedback Friday. We'll be right back after this, this episode is sponsored in part by hostgator. Who are you what's your story? Where are you telling that story relying on the free options offered by social media's like writing the chapters of your life in the sand? When the tide turned as it did win my space. Recently. Lost twelve years of user data. These chapters will wash away gone forever. Wouldn't it be nice if you were in complete control of your own archive of memories safely away from the fickle tons of someone else's incompetence, get your own website with the guiding hand of host gator? And you can be host gator has outlasted your favorite social media sites of yesteryear, and his likely to outlast, the ones you consider unstoppable today, but even if hostgator were to go extinct tomorrow, your websites, data remains yours to transfer forever as you see fit. And this is why we recommend hostgator for creating and maintaining your best possible online presence, you don't have to know the first thing about program. Aiming or design in order to custom craft your own mobile friendly website. Thanks to hostgator. Simple dragon drop builder. Choose from hundreds of the to easily switch up your presentation as you see fit or run it all on WordPress with one easy. 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This episode is also sponsored by blue diamond almonds, Honey roosted. Flavored almonds, Saracho flavored. Almonds was sobbing, soya sauce, flavored almonds, do I have your attention? Why keep snacking on boring chips when you could go to the store and pick up a blue diamond almonds right now? Whether you're going to work bored, at work, leaving work, these omens are the perfect snack best part. I don't hate myself when I eat a bunch like some of those other snacks. What are you waiting for? You know, you can listen to our podcast on your way to the store right now. So don't deny your cravings go pick up some great flavors right now. Eat them. Lou diamond almonds crave. Victoriously. Thanks for listening in supporting the show to learn more about our sponsors, and get links to all the great discounts. You just heard visit Jordan harbinger dot com slash deals. And if you'd be so kind, please drop us, a nice rating and review in nineteen zero year podcast player of choice. It really helps us out and helps build the show family. If you want some tips on how to do that hit on over to Jordan, harbinger dot com slash subscribe. Now, let's hear some more of your questions here on feedback Friday. All right. Next up high J J J. I work in corporate for a fortune five hundred retailer. I love my job, but I don't love the corporate culture, I drive an hour and a half work all day commute. Another hour and a half home have dinner sleep. Repeat three hour commute. Yeah. Yeah. Cuff during the workweek, there isn't a semblance of a life outside of work. My job is a not so great town, so it's not desirable to move there, plus in the close to two years. I've worked there and commuted for my parents house. I've been able to accelerate my loan payments and completely pay them off. There are no food options daycare, Jim social work events or really any amenities at our corporate campus. There are a lot of great companies out there that do offer their employees benefits outside of healthcare in time off the truly improve the corporate culture and morale, I know one in particular in a nearby city that has a full gym fitness classes, a personal trainer. In sports teams. You can join just to name a few. I've been doing really well at my current company and enjoy the people. I work with. But I'm struggling with. When is the right time to leave one company for another? I'm twenty six single it have the ability to move for any job. I would only move to another company, if it was a title bump moving laterally wouldn't make sense. And I'm honestly, close to being ready for title bump as it is, also I have a boss, that has a reputation for keeping people longer than they should be an position, because they're too valuable for her to lose, which results in them missing out on a promotion that would have moved them to another team in the company, ultimately, my questions are these, when is the right time or the wrong time to leave a current company for another. So let me jump in here, the right time to leave is, when you think you're overdue for a promotion, and you've brought it up with the company the manager and you're not getting it for some reason, there's a host of other considerations. It is really up to you. But it's good to be looking for a job. When you're in a solid position already and willing to make the leap, and you've been somewhere for longer than a couple of years, so it doesn't just look like your job hopping and that sounds like it's the case here when you were early on in your career. Who do you listen to reference, if you want to interview, quietly elsewhere, when the? Most important reference would likely be someone at your current company, recruiters HR. They're generally very understanding about this, and they know that you can't use your current employer as a reference when you're leaving. So it should you should just be honest about that. But you can still use other people as references of friends relatives. Maybe clients that you've worked with in our close to, if you've got a really tight co worker, potentially. You could do that too, or, or like a former boss inside that same company that doesn't have any incentive to share this with anyone. He might be able to get somebody to do that. And so don't sweat that too much people. Get that you can't just be like, oh, yeah, I'm secretly leaving apple. But here's my boss's phone number. I mean, that's they know that, that you can't do that, if you do land the new gig. Do you tell your current employer exactly where you're going? No, not not right now. Right. So if you're thinking, oh, I'm going to start in three months at I'm putting in my two weeks or my four weeks or finishing up this project. You shouldn't tell them where you're going. You're going to have to give them notice, but you shouldn't tell them where you're going. There are a few reasons one is because while we'd love to think the best of everyone there's a chance smaller or not small, that your current employer might know someone at the new company and potentially jeopardize your position before you even start your job. And if you're employing SU, you directly, I would answer in a general way and say something along the lines of I'm still exploring a few options in XYZ industry, our industry, but I'm not sure where I plan to go yet because you, they don't have a really a right to, to ask. There's no reason if you don't need their help. They don't need to know. It's just curiosity. They can wait. You really don't want that one percent chance that somebody has it out for you and decides. Oh, my friend over there is the head of HR, and I can sort of hang out with him on Friday and tell them a bunch of BS about why they shouldn't hire this person because I don't like I don't like Angela you know, screw her. I don't want her to get a job that I should have, or I don't want her to succeed. She's finally leaving. And I can put my foot in her. But on the way out the door, like you don't wanna give anybody a reason to do that. And they have no need to know is claiming corporate culture and upward mobility, for the reason for the change sound like a hashtag millennial problem. Sincerely, the culturally unfit employees will asking this question with a hashtag sounds like a millennial problem you wanna look into that series. But this is totally normal and reasonable, especially the part about upward mobility. Sure culture in a way might be a bit of a millennial thing. But millennials, we are no longer. Maybe I should speak for myself where no longer the twenty-something Jack offs in the office that take ourselves too seriously. Now with the thirty something Jack ops in the office. Okay. The take ourselves too seriously. We're like a third to half the workforce. I didn't look up this distict. But I can, you know, look, I know how old I am. And how old millennials are and the size of the workforce. This isn't just corporate culture. This is culture and the location of. A position and the three hour freakin commute and your current supervisor blocking upward mobility inside the company is a big difference between that. And when they won't let me ride a scooter down the hallway and install a slide in the lobby. Right. These are legitimate concerns that you have. It's not like our micro kitchen doesn't have GT's Kombucha, which is a shame by the way I feel for you. But this is not something that, that someone's gonna roll their eyes. I think even my dad who had a crazy commute and work like six days a week and put it in one hundred hour workweeks at Ford when I was growing up. I think he would go ninety minutes. Each has horrible. That's terrible. She even he would go. Why do you spend so much time in the car? It is a waste of your life, not just of your productive. Tate's a waste of your life who would not kill for three hours a day extra to do whatever they want to improve themselves. I mean you're just sitting in a car. Hopefully you're listening to this show learning something. But still, you could be at the gym doing that, right? Instead of guiding a chunk of steel democrat highway anyway, best of luck in the new position. And good. Call staying with this position long enough to get experience as well as paying down your loans having less debt means more freedom for you in the long run, because you don't have to stay with the job that you don't like because of salary so being debt free in this way equals freedom. So Pat yourself on the back for that. All right. Next up triple j, I've been working for tech company for a few months in that time, I've been asked to take on a ton of responsibility in been given special assignments, like hosting events in representing them at industry conferences, my boss, and executive team want me to do even more basically being a public face for our company. This would be a new role that I'd be creating the didn't exist. I'm currently making five thousand dollars a month for part time. The new role would be substantially more significant and other people make two hundred thousand dollars plus at competing firms. I'm worried the company has no reference on how much I should be paid. How should I go about asking for this huge jump even though I know I'm worth it? What if they don't? Give it to me is it worth getting high profile experience at less salary. Thanks in advance anxious rockstar. This is a tough one, but I start looking for jobs elsewhere. Even if you don't plan on leaving and this gives you more leverage, because you don't know this could be oh, we meant to tell you, we're gonna pay you even less because we feel like this job is great exposure for you and you're going to work twice as much you just don't know how this is going to shake out and having the keys to the prison is a very, very good way to go about this. And I would listen to the episodes on Goshi -ation with Alex coots will link to those in the show notes, if they don't give it to you, the bump that is, but they expect you to do the work, you should leave and go elsewhere. So that you can get paid, what you're worth on less. The experience is such that you're just like, wow. My learning curve is amazing. This is epic. I'm I can't believe I'm getting paid to learn this, and then stay for a few months, and then immediately start looking for other positions during this whole process if they. Can't pay you because it's a startup negotiate stock options or equity. Instead, if you really believe in the company like I get it if a startup says, look, we need you to be the face of the brand. We didn't even know this position would would exist. We are super tight. We're trying to get series A or series B whatever funding, then I get it. And then he say cool, I'm happy to do this. If I'm really the right person for the job. I want a hundred thousand shares, you know, you, you can ask for things like that. These are what make people by the way. Rich af in Silicon Valley. Anyway, equity in stock options your revenues, great, if you own a company and you're making a lot of revenue. What makes you rich is you own stock options in a company and then five years later, it goes public at ninety x. That's what makes people turns people from sharing a room to chartering a yacht for their vacation with their buddies. I'm not kidding. I've seen it happen a bunch of times. We saw Jaising you're talking about this yesterday online. Yep. Yup. Couple of my buddies just with all of their options at Uber became multi. Multi multimillionaires. Yeah. And these are people that could have either invested early or started working in the driver, acquisition department, first year out of college, you know, it could be anybody who gets options like that anyway, while you're looking at other positions, find out how much other positions similar to the one that they want you to do are paid, and yes, you're creating a role, so you might have to mash things together, but it's, it's not gonna be too hard. If you're doing recruiting on campus. Andrew also doing all of the media or something like that just sort of add those together and around down. Right. Because you're gonna end up doing those jobs yourself. Those will be your comps that'll show you what the position is worth two similar companies, and you can also bring ideas to the table and show the types of projects that you'll execute and the value that you'll deliver to the company once you're in that full-time position. So look up briefcase technique, we talked about this, maybe last month on a feedback Friday and Ramiz say t- who's a one of our guests this week has a great article. About the briefcase technique, you can go to the table and say here, three project, ideas, here, my outline for these projects and these are private projects executed by so and so at a different company at this type of fee structure, I'll be doing that. I'll be doing this. Here's the outline for this. Here's how I would execute that you're just gonna blow them away and somebody else's, like yeah. Get on Instagram. It's like they're just not going to be able to compete with you briefcase technique willing to that, and the show nuts. And like I said, look, if they don't give this to you, then you'd have to strongly way, the experience, you feel you're getting to the money that you could be getting paid elsewhere, so not it's not that you're not being paid. What you're worth. It's that you are losing money, not doing this job where you would be paid more. Right. It's opportunity cost. So if you're getting amazing experience, like if you look, if someone said, hey, Jordan, we need you to host a show on NPR for six months. We're not gonna pay you though. I'd be like great. I could really use that I'm gonna be sitting next to Terry gross the whole time. Something like that. Right. I would do that. But if they're like, we really need you to edit audio for varsity here at NPR, and it's going to be free. I would go, you know, that's no, I don't need that experience in my life right now. So pass, I'll go. Find another job, you won't really be able to go back to part time in my opinion because to them, it'll just look like you turn down the work, even though you actually turn down the lack of compensation for a different job, which is something you should turn down. So now just getting to be an underpaid slave for another company that doesn't understand your value, that's unlikely to have any sort of intangible benefit that makes up for what sounds like it's almost going to be close to one hundred and forty thousand dollars shortfall in salary. I just can't get the math to work for you here. So listen to those negotiation episodes willing to him in the show notes. Remember that your best hedge against this is to find other positions where you'd be paid for this sort of work. It doesn't mean you can't do the job for less than two hundred k to get experience or work for a company that you really love. But if there. Paying you for part time work, and they want you to work full-time. They have to pay you for fulltime work. You do the job for a while. Then to go. She ate another raise or leave for someone who will out that helps keep me posted. I'm very curious other shakes out. We'll be right back with more feedback Friday. Right after this, this episode is sponsored in part by better help, this has been just killing it lately. I, I love this service because it's online therapy or counseling, so depression, stress anxiety, relationship sleeping trauma, anger family stuff. They've got professional counselors that specialize in each of these things. It's safe. It's private. It's all confidential, of course, in what's great about doing it on your phone is you don't have to commute. You don't have to park. You don't have to worry about when you're going to time it everything's really flexible, the video, or phone sessions, or you can even text with your therapist. So it's very, very flexible when it comes to that, and it's definitely more affordable than trying to go. See someone in your local town regularly, and far more convenient. Jason best of all, it's truly affordable option for our listeners, and you can get ten percent off your first month with discount code Jordan. So get started today. Go to better help com slash Jordan in simply fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you'll love. That's better help dot com slash Jordan for ten percent off your first month. Thanks for listening and supporting the show, your support of our advertisers keeps us on the air. And I mean that literally so to learn more and get links to all the great discounts. You just heard visit Jordan harbinger dot com slash deals now back to the show for the conclusion of feedback Friday. All right. Jason. What's next high triple j for the past few months? I've been using six-minute networking to re-engage with my friends and mentors who are no longer in my immediate social circle. It's been so rewarding to talk with all of these people. Again, I have a personal CRM to remind me, Wendy contact members of my network, but I have a couple of clarification questions when reengaging with your network. What do you say to them? I'll often ask how they're doing, but I don't wanna be sending them the same message people every X weeks should it just be as simple as saying. I was just thinking of you today. I don't want to spend too much time each week trying to find something to say, to my contacts, also, if it's a professional contact that you don't have as close of a personal connection with what should you say? So I do have the script laid out for this in six minute networking. If you want to change it up, you can use something like you popped into my head this morning, or I was reflecting on our previous conversation. And I thought I'd reach out that should do the trick that works for both personal and professional contacts. I would stay away. From thinking about you, which could easily be misinterpreted, especially by somebody of the opposite sex that could blow up in your face. It's funny. Jason this reminds me of the Bert cast when I was on Bert Kreischer podcast a couple of weeks ago, and I was trying to teach him this, and he kept typing in things like just thinking of you, and he sent it to his gun dealer. He had those funny was allowed to he was laughing so hard. He turned purple. And I thought, okay, I've killed Burt. Yeah. I've killed Burke, writer, or like desserts, require the Heimlich maneuver, or do we need to just like elevate his feet. Like what do we do? Now. He has doubled over in like, in pain from laughing because he just he, he wasn't sticking to the script, and he was writing these things that just sounded so sustain, and funny, so, yeah, stay away from anything that could be misinterpreted. Shouldn't be too hard. I mean I wrote the script because look you're going to vary it up. No problem in your hitting these people up every forty five to ninety days, they're not going to remember and if they're in texts, and it's like. Oh, I scroll up through a little bit. I see a similar script. Who cares? You can say, yeah. I remind myself to check in with people and check in with a lot of people, and sometimes I end up reusing some of the same thoughts that is not that big of a deal. You're still the only person who's doing this and keeping in touch with them, and it's not automated. So there's little room for them to say. How dare you, right? I mean who cares? At least somebody's thinking about them, at least someone's thinking about it. Right. Exactly. But I do get the idea that you want very it up. So here's two more variations that'll get you through nine months with most people. Right. I as well as many of my networks are currently graduate and undergraduate students scattered across the country in six minute. Networking and on the show. You've talked about giving value to your network such as offering to make introductions or helping them with something they have an issue with however as a student, I don't have much to offer in terms of helping out my network, I suppose just reaching out and reminding them. How awesome they are now. And again, maybe enough, regardless, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on this, this is also a common misconception that I cover in six-minute networking, which is you don't need to introduce people upward or have these super high value, contacts at first, you can connect people to one another as well, anywhere. It's appropriate. So this is why six-minute networking works. Even if you think, well, I don't know anyone, I don't have any money. It doesn't matter. That's why a college student who has a decent network can be of value to. To a billionaire, because the billionaire goes, why is my Wikipedia keep getting screwed up? This is so annoying. I'm going to hire PR firm, and then somebody who's an intern in their office says, oh, you know what? I know somebody who knows about Wikipedia, I'll fix this for you, and they go. Oh, wow. Okay. Cool or their nephew says, hey, my friend knows about this stuff and you end up being a value to that person because your network is unique to you, you have connections that they may not have, and even super well connected people who know everyone they might be in almost a bubble of high level connections, which is a great bubble. The bien. But like think about this. When I interviewed Eric Schmidt, who was the former chairman and CEO of Google he that episodes coming up soon after the interview he he goes. Wow. I was going to do something like this, and I had all these consultants, come in and teach me outta use lighting and cameras, and they're all these big professional things. And they all right in on on dollars and they weigh a ton and I have to rent them and have them shipped. And he goes this all fits in. Into that case. Because our portable gear all fits into a pelican case, which is kind of like a waterproof giant suitcase. He starts taking photos of this, and he goes, Jordan. I don't know if it's trade secret or if you'd be willing to share a list of this equipment. And I said, of course and I offered to set it up for him. So basically, he went from spending multiple potentially multiple six figures on gear to do media. And he goes, oh, this fits into a case, I want this instead, so his assistant Neier talking Jen about getting this gear for Eric Schmidt, and setting it up and helping him do it because it's simple and works. This is a this is one of the wealthiest people on the planet. He was in charge of one of the biggest tech companies in the world, that's ever existed in history. Right. He has compared to most of us unlimited resources, almost to the level of mystical power. Right. And yet, he needs me to help him set up his podcast mobile podcast studio because that's the value that's there. And so. So there's no reason that somebody who's a college student doesn't have value to offer. Somebody in a powerful position. You probably know a ton about subjects that this other person has never thought of a herd of so don't be afraid to leverage that how often do you suggest keeping in contact with people in your network since you don't want a message people too much? I have people split into biweekly fourteen days for very close friends and family monthly quarterly, and semi annually. Thanks for all the work you do. Sincerely, networking newbie. So the buckets, the lengths of time between keeping touch with people, I think I discussed this before, but I do twenty one days for family and close. Friends forty five days for closer connections in ninety days for everyone else, you're buckets sound fine. You don't need to change them. I was not scientific really in the way that I set those up, they were just suggestions from the CRM contact us. And so I kept him. I'm really glad you're putting this stuff to use that as great to hear. And look, if you're trying to get your mind wrapped around some networking stuff, you don't want to spend a lot of time doing it. Our core six-minute networking is. Free. It always will be free. I'm not upset. There's no upset at the end. You don't need to putting your credit card nothing. It's at Jordan harbinger dot com slash course. Oh, and by the way, somebody said, why do you do it? Then if it's free. I completed, it's free. There is no upsell. I didn't have to put in my car. Why do you do this? I know that if I teach one hundred thousand people this skill set and ten thousand to maybe ten thousand of them actually do it, then the returns to the world are huge. But the returns to me, let's be real the returns to me over that time we're going to be enormous because even if one percent of that amount of people is like, wow, Jordan. This really changed my life. I owe you one and then within the next fifty years, they think of me for an opportunity. I have so many more opportunities in my life that more than I'll ever be able to handle. Plus, people will share it as a course and people will get into the show because of it, which also helps Jason an I and Jen, you know, pay those bills. So there's, there's a lot in it for me. It's just not your money and it's not. You're selling your personal information or some other BS. It's more of a super long term play that improves the world in the worst case. So I'm cool with that. All right. What's next? Hello, longtime listener and have heard you recommend therapy over the years for many issues. So it seems like better help is a great sponsor for your show. I don't have severe mental health issues, but I have thought about getting therapy for awhile to help with some of my insecurities anxiety. I checked out better help, and it was more expensive than I thought it would be is it actually cheaper than in office? Therapists is therapy usually covered in traditional work health options. I know a lot of your listeners have mentioned the cost of therapy is an issue over the years. I imagined that I make too much money to be eligible for a reduced rate. But I have a lot of debt and sixty five dollars a week. Sounds like a lot. How do you evaluate what is more of a priority in a budget paying down debt or investing in mental wellbeing? Especially when the debt is something that causes a lot of anxiety, and insecurity. Thanks anxious and unto budget. So many. People are writing us about their so that's I like if I didn't know any better, I'd be like this whole show is so in the pocket of better help like, Jordan, you, you're a bastard, really isn't the case. They've run like a handful of ads. I assume they'll renew now 'cause we're probably sitting him a ton of people. But really, you guys are writing us about therapy, a lot, which tells me I'm on kind of the right track year. I told jeno's like can we knock off some of these therapy related question? She's like, there are so many so don't worry I, I am cognizant of that here. But most therapy to answer your question isn't covered by insurance. Unfortunately, most most design ever been to our upwards of one hundred bucks an hour, and I don't think I'm going to, like Hollywood celebrity therapist. I think I'm going to needs to make a living therapist. Right. So better. Help is definitely more affordable. Our code for better. Help is better help dot com slash Jordan. You get ten percent off your first month. So it makes it a really a, a lot better of a deal. I don't think I've ever even when I was like a broke student been able to pay less than. Fifty to sixty five bucks per session. So if you're an employed adult I think sixty five bucks per week is actually quite good, especially the access you get with better help, you can text and call and all that stuff. And I hear you though dead and insecurity. There are a big deal, they're linked if you're sure the reason you're feeling exiled is only because of your debt than. Yeah. Pay down the debt. Like if this is just something that the neurotic eating away at you than. Yeah. Pay that debt down. But if you have other issues going on, then mental health is just not a luxury. It can't wait. You can pay down the debt and get therapy. Yes, it will take longer to pay down the debt. I get that. But if there's other things bugging, you, you're not just stressed out about this, or you've got other depression, anxiety issues, which is very possible, then you'll be happier in the long run. If you engage in a little mental health here student debt is something that is going to be with you for a while, regardless in the interest is usually, so I don't know if this is still true. But when I was a student interest on student loans was actually lower than just throwing money into a Bank account, so it's not worth paying. Off early because you're, you're literally profitable not paying it off. And I can explain that later people care. But you have the you have to decide if being happy and healthy can wait. And I don't think it can. But only, you can be the judge of that. You know if you're just being eaten away by this debt pay it off. But if you're being eaten away by a bunch of stuff and debt happens to be one of those things then go, get therapy and straighten it out. Life's too short to be unhappy. It really is. All right. What's next? Hi, Jordan team. I work at a licensing startup I started working on an entry level team. But after about a month, I was shifted to working mostly solo managing assets while checking in daily with one of the CEOs and two overseers I recently had my three month review and the company gave me a raise, but also another thirty days while they decide where to place me before talking salary and benefits, I used to stay an extra thirty minutes, a day collecting notes to create a training program for them. The company is open to input from employees. Unfortunately, one of my overseers seems closed minded and stubborn he had. Hits that new hires don't retain their training. He said that he doesn't mind if I organize notes on my own time, but also doesn't think it will be effective. He told me he likes me, but feels that I over complicate the work after the review he came outside to make sure I was ok even though I wasn't upset at all, which I found belittling because I'm a woman, I can't take criticism or need to be coddled. I explained it. I'm a critical thinker researcher and problem solver, but we'll try to take things at face value, while I'm still training. I feel like he doesn't understand people or management in isn't seeing my potential value because of his closed mindedness. I'm trying to keep my head down during the extension of my review period. But I'm convinced creating a thorough training guide. We'll help the company and will prove my potential any advice. Sincerely, let me help. God damn it. Okay. There are a few things here. First thing though, this is maybe a little bit of a tangent. But how do you know he came outside to see if you're okay, just because you're a woman, I'm did I miss something Jason? Maybe there's more to the story here. I don't see anything. In what she wrote to indicate that this is the case, it's just a thought. But maybe he's stubborn maybe it doesn't see the potential in creating a training program. But yeah, maybe he's got his head up his, but, but it sounds like he at least cared enough to see if you're feeling okay after a performance review. I, I don't know it's hard to tell without seeing the guy in his vocal to analogy when he came out, and what, what he was like, when he came out because if he came out and started man's planning and talking down to her, it might have been self evident. But since we weren't there, it's really hard for us to judge. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I just sometimes I become more sensitive to both sides of the story. And I see, I mean, I've gotten messages from people like how dare you, and I'm like, oh, here's why we didn't do this. And they're like, oh, oops. Sorry. And like why did you just assume I hated people of color because that didn't work out and they're like, I don't know. I just, you know, I'm watching the news, sorry, bro, or I've gotten that a lot. I'm just thinking, like geez, you know, give people the benefit of the doubt here. But yeah maybe he's got his head so far up as. But this is like the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know. In any case, a lot of ideas, don't get support before they're proven especially in corporate culture. I mean that's that's like corporate culture one. Oh one. Right. Beat the idea prove it so well. And then the higher up's still don't get it. And you're just ramming your head through the fricken screen of your computer. What you're doing. Now shows initiative it will help future employees in the company. Obviously, in fact, one of I think, what our tips a few months ago was while you're going through training and accompanied document the whole thing and turn it into a valuable piece for the company. I think that was our idea. Yeah, it was not that she got it from us. But I think that was literally something we talked about on the show, and I got that, of course from people who are hiring. And they're like my best employs the one that did this and I knew it, right. Then if this was a great person, this is a good thing to do this documenting of the training process. Even if your direct supervisor doesn't get it, he might just not get it yet. And even if he never gets it, it doesn't mean that nobody will ever get it, it doesn't mean nobody will undergo. Stand the value here. You could present what you create to the CEO, you could present it to the head of HR or recruiting which will make both your boss. And you look good, even if he didn't do squat, remember, your, your job guy, Kawasaki told us, your job is to make your boss look good. And even if you make your boss, look good. And he's an ass people will figure this out pretty damn quick. Right. Because if everyone else makes them look like schmuck because he's an asset you make him look good. They know it's you, the they do, and he knows. And after that after you make him look good. And this works you might get more leeway right now. He just sees what you're doing is something that's not high priority in his on his agenda might be because he doesn't know how to solve the problem that you're solving if he's a bad manager or bad with people. He might go training, you're supposed to remember it. And if you don't you're a loser, and I don't remember it and whatever who cares. I got bigger fish to fry once you can prove that you can make the training and retention better. He could recognize this. If he doesn't find you put your name all over the training program, and you prefer. Scented elsewhere put your name. I'm literally mean that litter. I mean that literally right. When you set up a binder a you make a deck. Put your name in the bottom right of every fricken slide, your Email like oh, just in case you need to reach me, head of HR. I'm Janine at new Email dot com. I mean you just throw that in there and they go good. Okay. This is identifying it doesn't look like you're hogging the credit. It's your contact info. So they're going this person is frigging genius. This is a superstar. They'll get it. Somebody will get it right now, though, to be fair, you're ninety days in your super new to the company once you've been there, another thirty days because they extended you're, I guess you're probationary period or something, you can show what you've done in, if they don't get it by then, and you're still checking in with the CEO regularly, like she said, then make sure those your checking in with understand what you're doing. And if those people don't get it. If this goes all the way to the top, and nobody cares about training to employees is the writing is on the wall for this organization in some way. Ways start looking for another job where they actually care about their incoming employees from where I sit I get with their heads are at as well as you your new. They don't expect you to do much to change the game. I know whenever we've had new hires here at this company and other companies that I've worked with especially sometimes people come in trying to show us how to do something differently. And sometimes it's a good idea. But other times they think they're freaking genius. And we're just so dense, we don't see the forest through the trees. Meanwhile, we've tried their idea one hundred times one hundred different ways. They don't know enough about the company to, to make it work, okay? And those people don't last long then again, we've also hired people who have great input and sometimes it does take us a while to trust them because ninety days isn't really long enough for them to have built trust inside the company. They don't even know how half the business or eighty percent of the business works yet, they're still mastering their own job in the program. You're building should go along way to change that. So you're on the right track. Good luck. Keep us posted. All right last, but not least. Hey guys. I'm having issues with retroactive jealousy in dealing with my girlfriends past. It's not even a bad pass to begin with societally or even by my own standards. I've tried to find resources for myself. But most of what's out there? Feels very gimmicky with little to no real information or exercises on how to deal with retroactive jealousy. I tend to get intrusive thoughts during sex, particularly when she performs oral on me sometimes my mind will start to wander, and I'll get images of her doing that for past boyfriends or a hookup. It's not a shameful sort of way. But more in a way that feels like they may not have deserved it. Or maybe it's me wanting to feel like I do deserve it. I can usually get past it. But it still takes me out of the moment. I'm not possessive and I have no trust issues with her. It's really just a passing image. But it's hard to deal with in that regard. I've evaluated at in-depth in tried to meditate passed it, and that works to an extent, but it's hard to find anything constant that will help at the source. Thanks guys. Stuck in the past. So I get this. I've had this, Jason I feel like all guys get this with new girlfriends, absolutely par par for the course. Right. Okay. Because I'm like, I remember getting this a lot with a lot of different women in the beginning of the relationship. It's just the thing that's happened to me throughout my whole. Life is long as I can remember being interested in women like middle school high school college after grad school now up to now to my current relationship. I've this has always been the beginning of the relationship, you get over it. I was talking with Susan winter, who's an amazing, Honey. What is she? She's like a coach. I guess, good friend of mine. She I called her about this, and the first six months ish of any relationship or the honeymoon phase, and it's totally normal to have these thoughts up to a year year and a half. I think even which is good for you. If you're in that phase that long evolutionary psychology, I think, does this for some sort of primal, reproductive reason that's probably to involve to get into here. This is David bus question, Dr David bus question, basically, your mind. Is telling you maintain exclusive rights to your mate, during this time so you can reproduce successfully. And I think women get it too. But I believe it's more common in men or it look let me take that back. Men, definitely have a harder time with actually, let me take that back to it happens probably to both of us. I don't know who has a harder time with men may or may not be more vocal about it because that's who showed up in my inbox. This does show up for women in other ways to though, so don't worry you will both get over this after a while. And if this is still causing issues, let's say in six to eight more months, then address it with therapist because it probably then indicates a deeper insecurity with you and the relationship. But in the beginning of any new relationship, especially during that romantic love phase, your par for the course buddy, you're supposed to be kind of torturing yourself over this I mean I wouldn't say it's good for you. But I will say that you are not alone on that one. That is just a thing that happens with new relationship. Ships every time life pro tip of the week instead of saying my ex say, oh, a guy or a girl that I dated back in the day. My when people say, my ex it sort of implies that person is still a part of your life, and that's fine. If it's your ex husband or ex wife or something, and they're still, you know, share custody with a kid, that, that makes sense. But if you say you're acts, and then it's like somebody from college, and it's been ten years. It sounds a little. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it sounds like they're still part of your life, and that could be unhealthy sounding in a way in a way that's unintentional. Like you haven't been able to let go right? Like you're still thinking about them in the context of a relationship, not just this person that you knew way back when that you dated. But that's so inconsequential that the it's about this current story it kind of sounds like you're about to tell a relationship related story. And it's like this person again. So just be cognizant of that. And if you hear people talking like that in your dating them, or you're getting a relationship with them. It might help to dig a little deeper on those people because it sounds like there's still some baggage, leftover no recommendation this week, we're still watching share noble and will be probably for a while. I hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone that wrote in this week, don't forget. You can Email us Friday at Jordan harbinger dot com to get your questions answered on the air. We always keep you anonymous we're doing some corporate training for some Silicon Valley giants, and we will have public facing events soon. So. If you're in six minute networking or on our Email list from the website, you will be notified from that. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at Jordan harbinger dot com. Quick shoutout to Liam from the UK just wanted to say he's pleased that your advertising is back on form with just cracking egg. He lives in the UK and he's been entertained with the window into North American culture that are advertisements have provided for some time. And he says he loves your Regis, and he doesn't even eat eggs. He just facts. He finds the concept not to his liking, but he likes her chirpy reading of it at brightens and otherwise dismal morning. Well, that's good to hear just cracking egg. That's right. Just crack egg and says, thank you for giving me an insight into weird American products. It's actually not that weird. It's like a rice bowl, I guess that you crack gone to it's got some other things in there that might be uniquely American something where you add in ingredient, afresh ingredient and the but the rest of it is the package product that you're right. That is a little strange. Right. That's that could be weird. I don't know. Think they're delicious. So I'm curious if anybody else in the world has something like this, because this is crazy food everywhere, just go to Japan. See what they got my gosh. Yeah. You think our products are weird go back. And check out the guests Mark Manson and remit safety. If you haven't yet, and if you want to know high managed to book all these great people and manage, my relationships using systems in tiny habits and keep that network bringing opportunity to me, check out, our six minute networking course, which is free over at Jordan harbinger dot com slash course. Don't kick the can down the road. Don't they'll do it later. You're not too busy. It's you're spending more time on Instagram than you are doing this networking. Trust me, the number one mistake, I see people make is not digging the well before they get thirsty. And once you need those relationships, you're just way too late. These drills will take a few minutes per day, ignore it at your own peril. I wish I knew this stuff twenty years ago you can find that at Jordan harbinger dot com slash course. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter at Jordan harbinger. It's a great way to engage with the show and videos of our interviews are up at Jordan harbor. Dot com slash YouTube. Jason. You check out my personal website, over at J P, D dot me. I'm going to be posting up some how to podcast videos coming in the next couple of weeks, which it'd be kind of fun needed. Also check out my other tech podcast, grumpy old geeks, GO dot show your podcast player of choice and keep the kids out of the room because it does get a bit salty. This show is produced in association with podcast. One in this episode was co produced by gen harbinger and show notes for this episode are always by Robert Fogerty. Keep sending in those questions to Friday at Jordan harbinger dot com or a member. We rise by lifting others, so share the show with those you love, and even those you, don't you got a lot more in the pipeline, very excited to bring it to you. In the meantime, do your best to apply. What you hear on the show. See you can live what you listen and we'll see next time. If you love our show, you're going to love say it forward with Rebecca Rothstein on podcast. 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Castle Black - Season Eight Episode One Review - WinterFell

FanBros

1:12:42 hr | 2 years ago

Castle Black - Season Eight Episode One Review - WinterFell

"You are listening to castle black the blackest game of thrones podcasts and all of the rounds. Casablanca's created by the four all nerds team, and is hosted by DJ, Ben. I mean, Tatsiana keen Jones and Porsche Patterson our show is edited and produced by DJ, Ben. I mean Casablanca by four nerds is powered by our listeners. Everything we do from our podcast live events website and more independently funded please continue to support us. Do our patriotic page at patriotair dot com slash for all nerds. And welcome in Annette's to another amazing episode of castle black. The black is game throwing podcast and all of the rooms. We are finally here in season eight. I got before beginning to things that's gotta introduce ourselves. I am Tatyana king. Jones degrom. The tech also known as the three eyed raven Simone toffee Barath, Ian, Lord of light sabers and girl has no other nicknames. And as usual, I'm joined by its Sheboygan hard. The rhythm of Rick on a man has no shame. The iron prices, right? Little Twitter fingers old fringe, Amy. All friends, go get into it. We get into. All right. And sitting next to me tonight is Tahoe. I'm still Sean to find the name riana come get this stark. The sands. Was poppy so shameless. Welcome back and last but not least. It ends me worship the Maistre of the skies, aka the three eyed, raven claw, aka lady. Marriage of hydrogen you better keep singing your intro. I love it. So like, I said we are finally here in the final season of game of thrones. It is a bittersweet conclusion that we have just started. We felt some things some things happen this episode. It was pretty mild. But we have finally come to a point where we are starting to see all the story starting to come together. And I don't know how to feel. I'm really I'm all in my feelings. I really Email right now to be honest with you know, man, I started off this episode. Couldn't believe I was really watching a new episode game of thrones. I've been I've been watching season that the season over and over. I know everything he's going to say, and then all of a sudden I'm in this new room just watching like holy shit. Holy said. Like ten times. Oh, not to mention like all of the hype that has been building up. Like, I thought it surprised him drop was hype peaceful. No nothing gets beyond a game of thrones two week. Wait, like the amount of things that I've seen in two weeks will two year. But really the hype train didn't really start until this last like couple of weeks, and it's been incredibly ridiculous just beyond anything I've ever experienced with an ethics now at this point with an ethics realized that we people really have the north remember signs outside their houses. I got a baby dragon. Dragging series over Syrian cinema bookcase. Yes. So like, I said we're here. But you know, we did run a poll like we always do most of our episodes about the previous season. So we can get a lay of the land and see how people feel going into this new and final season so Porsche if you can do the honors of letting everyone know the season seven poll results. So this time I tried to be a little bit different with the poll questions and make sure that we had like a little mix of spectacles relation in there. But for the most part or view of season seven, and as I pulled up. I opened with which season seven are ever union. Had you hype this had aria hot by are you place? My Marya are ya in Santa an aria and brand. I think I've Ota for Aryan hop high. But. None of them. I. I don't think I was looking forward Arias. Well, no are in Jonah definitely definitely wanted them because they had a great relationship at, you know, during when you first got introduced to them as kids. So I was always looking forward to that. Season seven they're like in season seven when they had argued reuniting with everyone. They kind of like a gearing you up for her John meeting and season eight which we will talk about later. I was okay. So who's people who are is anybody hype about who she met season seven and literally it was just Nigeria with forty five percent of the vote. That wasn't that wasn't a reunion. I won't care higher in San says. So I don't know maybe people actually feel the stele love there though. I thought that was pretty cold last season. We'll see how that goes for them. She's eight Maria's like, I don't know her to rocket musici-. Okay. How long? Get out of here. Oh, man. Yeah. So the next question was about sands. We're gonna see a lot of sand this season. Maybe we definitely saw get him out of him. This episode for episode one of season eight and the question about season seven was which Sam well is the best that well, so we had white slayers Sam sorts netra Sam Gilly, plus Sam or gray scale healer San and ironically, the grace show here. Sam was the top voted polling Ackford forty seven percent. I would've chose that too. Because to me that was when Sam has says most gangsta when he's in his element, his element is knowledge, and what he can do with that knowledge. So the fact that he got all his basically, forbidden information and made it happen for somebody else. Like to me. That's that's the the best of the best when it comes to him. He's not a fighter. He's not. I mean, he he's friendly and trying to help getting on that stuff. And I guess that's his family now, but I don't really care about that. So I'm all for gray scale Hiller. I'm all for Gillian Sam because without getting Sam is a sucker as well. So yeah, I definitely put down for guilty because daily was the one who really figured out about John's snow's parentage Sam was over there. Trying to keep her quiet and Gillies trying to put the knowledge on them. And not. So I might vote on my Sam taking the sword. That was my. I'm from the hood, man and evening foot. My dad. Where we come from a man's. I relate to that moment. More never fought my dad like partially that also like he was four thinking are just doing it to spite his work. He only does his ideal. I'm actually going to try to fight like walkers. He's gonna try to fight for clean, sir. C atmos-. Like, I'm gonna just take it stick it. Gangster, and that was showing up for his girl too. You know, so been that's that's another moment. That's when he really he really became like manned up. You know, fuck that. I'm taking this off again truth. He's funny to me what a sword. But anyway. They probably don't give it to somebody. Day. Visit better than me. Gillies the one, but we'll see. That'd be lovely. Yeah. So best game thrown season. Seven quote. I put three of them up. There were a lot of comments. But won't go win. One was winter came for house freight from aria to telsar seat. It was me and three was been Benin. And guess what? Everyone wetlands at eighty percent. Associate was me. Don't not them beat that man. That's like the I had a dream of game of thrones. Like nothing goes beyond the way. She did that like she literally drank it. She was like. Fucked up. Shokhin spitting. It was such a nice conversation before she took the stuff shave drinking and just turned into some just fire-breathing dragging like she went in. I understand why Jamie as still kill it. Like, you you tell them you did that to my son, and he just walked away died nicely. Dying split in half. Shafi? It's whatever the not going to go up for Joffrey. Then like who is nobody? So. I love surfing. I don't even go for free life. That was a gangster moment though, man for real like, there's no way any quote. I don't think they got some this season. But we'll talk about that. Yeah. These ours. So there are people who commented about there are other quotes, namely, John talking spicy to narrows boy talking about but overall lady'll and as always have bars so battle best of the series. So far the next one and an overwhelming fifty percent was battle the bastards. It released prize me 'cause I played up against lack water, hold heart home in the train in about of the bastards is the biggest winner there. I mean had everything in it suspense, you know, sadness happiness, I had everything. So that's why Juan. I still wanna know reconnaissance exact. No, I've series big fun. But they weren't straight who runs straight exam. You literally just go keep winning straight at the end Ramsey wasn't even looking like in the last two Hughes throwing the arrows up, and they still was almost hitting because he was running straight. Why you got groping ongoing Rick on? That's why Rick on. Rick ongoing. Rick. Regard. So the next question was who's your favorite still living couple so far Gillian Sam, sir, c or Jamie? Nj me miss Sunday in grey, worm Danny and John. And obviously, I think this one's an obvious winner. But who everyone likes maybe obvious to you, maybe for Ben he would picture? Yeah. But in the Sunday in grey, worm won with seventy eight percents, Jamie surfing. That's just gross. Stupid gross, man. Oh, what are you talking about? I know. Best game of thrones season. Seven death seen little finger lady Alanna the Syrian or flame on dick on flame on. No question. No question. And boy does that comeback in this one. Surprising, drugging gotta be right. Well, well, you and six percent in Ben but little fingers death one as the best death of season seven. Served, but they're but flame. I mean, that's how you go out. Scene. And I'm like why did everybody you care about like little fingers that seem like the best ESI? I mean, it wasn't the best. But I understand my people cared about it. Like, he went out the way, he usually goes in the things confusion, misdirection doublespeak all that all that stuff that he employs us his tools to get people out there paint was used against him. So it was satisfying. It was also the fact that this is the time now that things come into sixty everything. So that was I think maybe they wanted to second third things in the seven became three sixty everything's coming around and little fingers death was satisfying for most of the audience. Offers. Times throw things very quick death like cross with rail. I thought this Syrian was the one that changed the whole tone of wet. We thought could happen in this series. Because it's like the Nike could just like to in the air. And suddenly like, oh, what is life? Now. What's going to happen whenever they had to fight? These white walkers is going to happen in another jogging gonna die. Come a new now. Like, yeah. Yeah. The game changer. Yeah. I mean that that lost definitely mental. I it was it was it was a heavy loss. You know, when they talk about blowing it three dragging lead that is definitive picture of that. So. I get it leading up to season eight's. The question is the next question who should die next, sir? C Braun Giora somebody else. You're on. Yes. Kid out at a paint did so far out of it. Get all we still on right? It's good. This is a prediction for season. Eight an interesting choices Porsche put in here who will live or which will live to the end of game. Throws eight dro- gone ghost rigour nightmare. You. Ghost? Go. Go says that do to be honest with you. So I. Mariana because is going to be anywhere near any of this mess. She does not get to crafts will not play with her. And if pulling sanctum, right? She's like, oh, do you need me? Maybe I'll bite a couple of these white walkers and I'm gonna dip day and. Wonderful, and you are correct Nigeria while fifty percents and that concludes our season seven poll results if you guys are interested in voting in the rest of our polls, make sure you're following castle. Black on Twitter that's castle black pod. Every week will put up a new poll series and get your take on the most interesting parts of game of thrones. Which is at this point everything. So now that we've gotten through our polls we are now here to speak everything season eight episode one big kidding from that new intro. Tell me how feel about that new animated sequence in the beginning. Oh, slipping. I wanted into the show starts expecting. You know, especially I've been watching our we want seventies pretty much straight up, and, you know, same intro with little changes. Every now, you know with all the little moments, but to have the whole white and to see the flipping tiles as the ice walkers are coming down. I lost it. When the first thing you see is the fucking wall with a hole in it broke. Put it on the. Thing can like can you say to soons which show? Right there. This is they know how serious this season is to stay giving it to us every scene now. There s wanted to note like how they were like they actually zoomed in because they went showing a lot of different areas. They were starting to zoom in like stroll around inside winter fell in the sides Kingsland, right? I I feel partially like that's going to they're trying to throw us off of what's gonna come next because you know, that they're not going just leave it limited winner fill in king's landing and the wall, right? So right. I thought about that too. All right. I know y'all giving us all the extra details, but what's really happening here. So yes. Yeah. Facts so that happened. So I was already hype before anybody even appeared on screen, and then we get to be opening scene. Which is. The unsullied walking into winter fell. Well, actually, the little boy running to catch up to a crowd of people who is a bunch of northerners setting out in waiting for the employee to pass through them in on their way. Into winter fell this whole perception. And you know, at the back of the ride, you know, you have all the different people that you're seeing coming through. But I like the northerners are a bit perturbed about seeing people of color in north like it's never happened before. What is this? What are the what are those? Wow. Now that you're saying, I didn't even really you know, peop- that. But there was some looks towards. Sunday in great. I'm glad I'm watching this with other black people because I'm like am. I like this makes me feel like a real life where things like that happen where you get these microaggressions, and your if you happen to be the only black person in the room like an my trip or that. I am I really really heavy. Do I feel what I'm feeling so John conversation that came up, you know, the Nares has solved this, and it was like everybody. Okay. And John kind of talk that away saying, oh, they're northern northerners. They've never seen outside as a four, but I felt some type away they kinda baby mean, mugging miss and grey worm. I was really annoyed by that reminded me just like me right back to a time. When I was with a white friend and Boston, and I was like we were in a bookstore. And I'm like, okay. I'm like the only black person is bookstore in the people looking at me what the is going on. And my wife was like, no, it's fine. And I'm like, no legit. Like, this is a problem. And it's a very like gas flitting leading problem like, oh, no like through to seeing things like it's not what you think it is like, okay. But he would know you're not the person who goes through. Right. So and it's for John say that was like, boy, you haven't been Brown's you have been around frigging, the unsullied like that as that long been around people even been in their homelands, you have no idea like as one saying something to should like be like, you know, what let's check that. Other people argue how were they supposed to the northerner supposed to greet of random foreign army? Like are they supposed to be in with hands in the air cheering, or you know, how like how would you feel if a whole last nother nation, basically came through your crib like you might feel some type of way. And they have. Saying I feel like. The northern very close off in -cluded, and they don't take well to out fighters, which is fine. If they could say look at sourcing them like that whenever they visited winter fell like the very first step Assode. They looked at eleven crazy, and they comes through like winter fell. But there's a difference between how they look at the white folk in how you look at the black folk, and that's a problem. Yeah. Well, you know, I noticed that. I we are we pretending remaking things. Are we feeling something strange? How does two of us that weren't watching the same room fill the same way? No. I mean. Yeah. I wouldn't want you out pointed out, I thought it was just mad that there was just like how to northern is is mad at the Wild Wings with the people at the wall was met at the Wild Wings. That's how they was mad at the people from the new Queen like we we place where we just named Al king. And now all of a sudden these new people, and she's the Queen of us. I it seems to me this running thing theme with people in north. They're not happy with that decision. John me. No and never happy in general. And they continue to write communicate displeasure every turn before we move on. I just wanted to make a point about during this procession. You see Arias standing crowd as well. And her facials every time she sees different people going by hers. Incredible. Like when she saw. The house. She gave him that you know, that stoic bass like, I'm not fucking with you. She giving the face like, what are you even dry? You. Are you are you? John is he was like, oh, my bro-, you know, using Gandhari everything was happy. But then she saw them dragons. Woo. How exhilarating is that? Like people are telling you these things exists. You don't believe it and they finally fly above your head two of them. It's different in the face and Sansa gave the dragons. She was shocked at least, that's the way. I thought it. No. She was stunned. She would never seem to dragons in our life. Nobody I doubt. That was the moment for me in that opening scene was when you know, everybody's like well want Wilmington would we do the year and everything I mean, I, you know, the news is here with all our army in dragons rolled in. And it's like you're going to get down or lay down. That's what you're going to do. You know, this is shows. That's like, that's that's showing the finality of everything not pulling punches no more when even decide by the way this screen. They showing the dragons way more like the whole episode now all you would get one seen every episode every two episodes of dragging. But now, it's like all the there, would it really come into a close this episode kinda it was kinda lit which out the overall thing. Hell, yes. Anything that you didn't like about that? I don't know. I mean, we're gonna get to that. But saving win. You know, obviously, there was something you didn't like about it. For the moment. Process. Yeah, we're gonna get there. So basically, the first kind of the first few minutes of this episode was just dedicated to reunions people reuniting with each other seen. They haven't seen really the whole episode was that way. But but the beginning was was probably most prescient that being said like as we continue on with this March through to winter fell. And you see everybody coming together what stood out the most to you? Signs, a leveling up in given everyone such vicious amounts of shade. At the beginning. I felt like finally they were giving the lines Asanga, you know, that she never had before. And she was given the business to everyone and also John and brand meeting, you know, that was a moment for me because it's always, you know, brands like utter, I'm not here, you know, just talking about like, you know, when he's finally saw John and John was like your man now, and he's all like almost almost I'm not his brother these one liners. Can't smooth it out. I brand was a little bit nicer John than he was anyone else? What? Because whatever argon stance like free. And he's like, I'm not anymore. He didn't say John to say almost didn't say, I'm not I'm in. I am not a man. He didn't see all that. He was just like. Was just like, oh this like you didn't even like, I'm let him I wanna side. I'm looking that. I'm cool. It's a lizard on today. And then I'll tell him that. I'm the jokes all season because just his faith and stuff he'd be saying just be left filled. So he's going to be interesting. Anything off a Utah for this. This reunion between these the star children. Starts damascus. I think that for one John is showing eight don't really trust signs it. I mean, I I noticed that you know, I knew that they made up after she did the thing with the the veil the guy, right? They they spoke after that and everything. But now he's telling other people like, yo she ain't the person that you think she is she she might she not trustworthy. I think he said he actually said that right? She's not. I mean later on he was talking to argue, and he is definitely talking about that. But. Yeah. I'm more that sauna doesn't trust John and rightfully so. Because John's a moron joins. Yeah. Yeah. That one thing is clear and John Arias. Arias? Ring reunion was that she knows that. He is a gun tar gear, Ian because she was like remember that whenever he was like over family baba blassie's remember that. So I think that part of what we're seeing from sunset in Hershman of John decide to having resentment at him like not even like her heads up that he's been the knee or actually just and just Susan on his own was partially that she's like this whole time, you're going kids out shooting bastard, because I knew what my family, and now I find out that you're actually on my family, and I really got towards you your posts beholding down for Starks aren't even start like she's I thought she's holding onto that like resentment is this part of her plight for absorbing little fingers powers. I mean, he's gotta do. This are you trusting like she gave me she gave me like playing both sides kind of ibes. She really did. She really gave me she wants. She loves John because she loves their relationship before everything happens, but she's made her like she's made those ties in like armed out her differences for the most part with Santa as she's gonna hold that down for now, at least as she still trying to figure out like where John's going to be in that if he's over here making allegiances without them. I also felt like aria had some trust issues with John because she knows that he died and he's come back. When people remember we we've learned when people dying come back. They don't come back quite the same. Something is missing or chain or whatever the case may be. So she was looking at him funny in the light like, well, you what are you? Are you my brother are you some random? That's you know, that's blink to the Mike who the fuck are you so? That's what the vibes. I was getting. Oh, no. I definitely caught that definitely not in that sense. I think it's more because I say one everybody knows the John's dumb ass kid. And you know, he's the lead to them. I think he's still at least, trustworthy, light Arias one who values I battles and fighting still and all that. And she hasn't seen John prove themselves. She heard from psalms probably that side to come in. You know, Sandra probably told her side of the story that she had to come in and save his ass at the battle. And so she's I okay. The stars a sucker. And then he goes off and Trump's back, you know, with the Nares, and she's like, I don't know him. I mean, I don't know her. That's my family. You know, it's all about family. And so I think all on vibe, and the fact that are you so like close to death. You know, she's had such a fascination with death and killing everything the fact the jobs survived and came back is probably a big thing to her as well. I think that she knows that already knows that he died a racing. To the heart. See? Yeah. Okay. See I didn't even catch that. Oh, wow. She that. Yes, she she asked that. And then she asked to and he asked whether he asked her he asked her some wild shit. How do you how do you survive or something? Yeah. Literally just how they make it through. She said, why did you go? Where were you could've used her to curry favor with Vonza Stanford? Yeah. Like, he. That's how you know running his mouth. I'm telling you. He told me. Hell he's messy. He's a messy then. More jesus. So what happened next take us through to the next part for ship. Do I have to? We. Landing and we see. Clown of the great joys your on Bain. His jolly yourself talking about how he brought back the golden company who do not have elephants. Oh my gosh. We have to talk about how much certainty needs elephants in order to like do what she needs to do. And she cannot. Sound like a spoilt child. She's Yano elephants. Like, why are you here? Like is about what though but Elkins can't just like swim through oceans like. Was that just me there was like they well your majesty. We can't actually flow fucking elephants across the fucking see. So sorry, we can do it for you. My bad. There was one thing about like that. I mean that whole thing was like, it's. I don't I don't get it. I see like grasping at straws at this point. Because that's how I feel. I feel like she just very desperate and not really complain about anything. Yeah. Just everything. And even I mean, our every destroyed get into the whole year on Percy interaction. But before we get to that. Can we jump back real quick because we did miss the fact that we didn't talk about the little lady at islands, you can have return and throwing you know, the ultimate a level of shade. John talk about you left the king. And I don't know what you came back as any had no. Every words she said, you you ain't got nothing to say he was like. And he was not important. What it was? He knew how to northern where he should've been ready. And he was laying on it came through was like, what type of fluctuate is this. We did not hire none of these people. But shoo why what what's the change about? So I I like that she gets to the point. She leaves this no joke or or question about what the fuck. She is. She's talking about. She goes look tell me what's going on right now and to your point jarver lee-ing and nothing much that its share because at the end of the day. Once you live in national you running from zombies, you you really flying on dragons and going through all of this crazy shit that you know, is everyday life or death right now. Hey, thinking about the houses and all that shit trying to stay alive. I'll still thinking like it was yesterday yesterday is over winter is coming. We've been telling you that for seven years. And all this other shit. I got her here. So that we could win. That's it. That's the only reason she I don't know about that. Yeah. Lady more month, though. 'cause I missed it. As mentioned it to me was house. You looked at Giora because that's going to be interesting come later in the season if they touch on that, and I'm ready like there's these other little things that are happening. Like, we're seeing other argument, plus like the hand in the Jalan versus the mountain and all that stuff but lady lay on it against Jordan. I can't wait till you see that conversation was looking at him. So funny. Yeah. Apparently, she was whenever he keep pulled up in the winter fell light. I missed that. But what's her problem with him? Yeah. Giora is the son who is supposed to go to the night. Remember like he was nice what she is his niece who took over his strong. Yes. Got it. All right. All right. Well, that'll that definitely gonna come around. But back to the other strong bag on your own. Nobody like you. Nobody like you like don't know body on shore off the show like this month of he's the worst of all time. These I, you know, when they're like, yo, you know, your. Way to you're on drums. So you'll with them Europe's drop son Yohe is crazy. And since I kind as bad shoes like. Not about the first. Yeah. No, no that been workout bras. Sorry. But yeah, you're on is the worst. And the fact that he bags Hersi is. Okay. So can we? Unless this happened there. So. This show. I did like this is what I wanted to ask you guys like there was an exchange for everybody was watching. It was an exchange where you're almost like you don't give me that that that Bush the. Nursey kind of looked at him. Like, you're going to have to earn this. You know, you say she said if you wanna whore go by one if you wanna Queen you have to earn it. But then for her to kinda walk off in kind of have second thoughts and said, yeah, come onto my chambers. Like where did that come from? Why does witch up? Do you think I guess what it is? It is it though, then he or she is she doing chess moves. Is this it took a lot to these bit? No. It does not. They haven't showed it a lie on my screen, but what hand lane soul, stay was with a couple of kings guard laser actually gets the show that in the show, but she gets around and higher of doing that whole put on or whatever other were around versus can in privately are two different things, and it, sir. See, and I don't think it takes much to getting her bed. I'm not. That's that takes me to the John really know soci- man like she's done. She's not just going to play. She's doing she's doing everything for reason. Even with Jamie. She will fight him off and shit. But she was doing it to control them. It was always a reason. And you could see, but look at how she talks to him arrogant yet, you know, you she's. Battering his back. She know what she got to do to win like so she's playing a game. But search is definitely going to be the one to kill you on. Definitely. I gotta tell you. I was for everything with your definitely crying when she was just like your air again. I like that like it was very DJ college. It was very. Like that like I just started out laughing because I'm like she's playing the fuck out of him. But also, I wonder if she really does like that like remember, she she? Sure. But she's also egotistical herself. So for someone to also feed into her eagle her Ed I wonder if she really does on top of this being strategy. I wanna she really does think this shit is entertaining. With the soldier. You're going to do that. We your. Some other airgun he came out. He was pulling up his little britches. I say oh. And as it thing about him. You know, it's so funny to me where you're on. He his who is he talking to. There was like L go do that. He's like, no, I I've gotta give her Mike. All of this ship for some. But he did it. I mean it worked out just anybody though for the Queen. He needed to do it with the Queen at first season the narrows, and then his niece and nephew to the ships. The so he's like, okay f that Queen? I'm going to this either clean down here team planning. So he's just really trying to get in with Wayne the sheets of glean doesn't. A whole man. Oh, yeah. Nasty. So so you just nasty. Okay. You're on the whole put it on a t-shirt nasty. And I mean. And I mean, they wrap it up because he said, I put a Princeton there as she. I'll terry. I'd like it's just it's just a mess. I'm this tired. She's pregnant. No. Lands. We talked about this last show where every right where we talked about. We went round table and say, do you think she's lying to I still to this day? She's lying. Yes. I thought she was and now I'm just you don't believe in. I wanna throw when he said that line. Oh my gosh. My mouth. Face after. I don't know if she turned on just like. Just like already a little Princeton. They I don't know. I thought about that too. I wasn't sure like was that was that her look was it like fucker that ain't happening. So. Up sucker. No. Can we the nice thing? 'cause i'm. Who'll. So I mean, we kind of breast over at first second. So the person that you're on with saying, hey, I'm gonna go lay down with clean Ziara who he has tied up on his vote. She's like kill me already. He's like, nah, that's cool on leaving half on here tied up as my hostage, then the undersides that he's finally gonna come through an Abbass move and synthesiser can call it off move. It was very delayed. He should have been done. I wanna give the on prosper that. 'cause they deathly saw snake? They way on that boat and took everybody on the quickness on the quiet. Everybody was quiet and the way he came through for sister. I was like all right that that's that's a great redemption piece right there. He's still got a Daffy. I could never look at the on the on. You're going to. He just waiting. I feel. He's always been waiting since back. Then. Yeah. I was just like, yeah. I pretty much food one hundred percent the same way and much. I love beyond and I hated seeing him get tortured through that whole season. That's lights still one of the worst positive show ever to me. You gotta die and. He was looking at him. Like like, I looked at the first thing she thought was him jumping off the boat. Free her. She was looking at him. You really jumped off the boat. This is the best come you the same nickel? Her was like. Go forget that look because he jumped crazy. Good. Tents for his job. Then what did the get for his? Beyond didn't get anything. But he got a for effort. He it was awkward jump. But his height was up there. Now like his job was awkward, but he was he you know, he. Theon jumped off that boat. Like he was school diving in Cancun. Like ledge was empty slippery. Right. Leaped off. There was no plan. Nothing is like if that's what I remember of you lasting. I would beat him up to I kid you freed me. I'm kick ass. Okay. How can you jump like that? And. Yeah. One of the biggest moments of this episode, though, one of the I couldn't believe that happens quickly. You know in the season. I I didn't think they were just thought they were gonna wait on this moment. They just went right into it was John riding his second dragon. Not the second. Yeah. Definitely a second drag because you know, he already wrote the first dragon to narrow. Yes. I mean eating nearly with well you. On the back. Well, no, I mean, this is the first time he wrote a I I can't say a real dragon. Both of them are real driving. Yeah. So he kept going. Doubled down. Like you kept going, right. So no, I mean, yes. This was amazing. I actually didn't think we'd see the scene so early in the season, let alone the first season of the first episode of the pharmacies. But can we can we please talk about how goofy looked him jumping on the, Dan? Goofy. I mean, it was it was it was cute goofy. Wasn't it wasn't bad bad. But. Also, some of that CD look kind of funny to me, which is horrible. Yeah. Horrible better term, which is interesting. Because at this point audits money is poured into the show all of this resources, and your CD still look like is from ninety nine what's going on to stretch out type the CJ us because that's a lot of money for the show like that. They usually stretch out the budget here just four day and those good. So to be able to do it for a whole six episodes. They we're going to get a lot less. Good quality in those extra scenes 'cause they're gonna try to do the whole show. Right. Was I the only getting like Aladdin Princess jasmine five like whole new world riding around on the dragons because I felt that I can't wait for it to see mash up where they put John on the never in story dragon. With his fist. Mr morris. Let me hit hit Morris right now. Yeah. That's that is coming. I I mean, they're like, I I definitely jasmine Aladdin ship on that whole new work. They fly first of all this is happening while you know, they know these the white walk. Coming Nike come audit should happen. They decide they're going to go on a joy ride for few minutes to God knows where so just. Just honestly just for a game of thrones period at the I I was kind of knowing how long sequence lasted like I want. We don't give a fuck about this shit. The land. Fuck wrong with show land. Yeah. My thing about that. Was this whole time Imre gal just crawls of acting like, hey, what's up dude in Danes even realize like the dragons don't just go to someone because they go to someone like the dragons don't when attracted Tyrian never he took a feed them. So in John is able to catch a good up on gray gal, it's like a whole thing. And then you see him flying away, and we see Varis Zora, right and Tyrian, and they're all just like looking like is this John drag like something, that's substantial talk about. I mean, it's all him before. And they were sitting there hating on them. Like, you know, the, you know, all three two friends on dues sitting there. And I hate to say friends, but they I mean, you know, it's been established them do definitely all the way friends and all sitting there hating on her like, you know. And five minutes later drag. I mean, John rose my beats. Let's see what they making John look weak shit. Like like, you said like, you really left a king and came back. And now, you all buddy buddy, yacht kissing and sleeping together. Like, you really? Them for some pussy like the whole. That's how they're gonna look there's nobody else in the world. I'm telling you all of us would do the shit if one of our people left and so our whole crib? And the next thing, you know, they're kissing the person that they sold it to be like, wow. Wow. Best. Why signs was dragging John when she was just like so or I'm aria when they when they was like, so did you do this because you try to save the realm that was that you did you do because you're trying to save the Rome 'cause you love her. Yeah. That was. I love signs versus Danny? I love signs of versus Danny signs is gonna win. Danny. You're gonna lose Danny? They're paying this one of the things I was gonna say early. I didn't wanna say it's too early. They are paint. They are showing then narrates to arrogant to vicious she comes off like a tyrant. And if you go back to episode she had power it was her way or the highway. I'm giving you a choice that is no choice at all your the join me or you die that was choice. And now they're showing her to be that evil signs as looking like the person has really seeing the evil and people is looking good for my son's hive. It's looking good for signs. I mean, the thing is I I've been the one who said from early on the Danny's crazy, and I'm not crazy. I don't like to use that word. Let's say psychopaths it to be honest because Danny is definitely one like he ever need to say, she's a foreigner. She's become the colonizer of our own thing. You know, right now, she's trying or typify whatever it is. Then the need all day been in need like a whole season seven, which just her Benny Benny Benny, I'll fight with your John. When you've been. One of the greatest servants over. But. Yeah, everybody question John this win. And I love that. What are? But it was are you're right. Who was like? No. Did you do it because you wanna save the world? Oh, wow. That was amazing. Yes, dragging everybody all the best lines in this one all because other best line. And just when that we didn't mention earlier was when she was like Joffe, sweat and has some great moments. Like there was a few moments. You know, all that was that was amazed is that they pay in signs out to be the personal always say that she was going to become we went through some rough times. Rough. We hear here we show. Now, we're going to I'm telling you, I wanna see who's gonna leave. Bennani Betty side come running overhead signs hive now at the NBC scared now right now, you know, you're going to die over there with with Bendini, Betty, okay? Well, well. Well, we know one person who's questioning their allegiance to Bendini Betty, and that is Sam well Tarpley because they had an interesting conversation won't be guess are caused because I was sitting here watching the episode, and you know, they're talking. He's like, oh, I'd like one thing, you know. I'm just as Blidia says, Danny is at that point. I don't know. Why forgotten? I just watched it do one thing, and he's too and the moment her face issues. You mean, not the goddess cook, Charlie, and I just pause it like, oh and started rolling math. I was crying because I knew how bad the seem about the gopher everyone. Evolve. This conversation slash introduction to salmon Danny was was not simpatico one. Not at all as you mentioned. You know Sam is just so eager to say. Yeah. Man. I got my shit together. I'm ready to ride for you, whatever. And I got you. And Danny, you know, you know, he starts talking about his his name is Sam start talking about his name his family where he's from Dan. He's like oh oh. The last name was Charlie. Definitely flamed on a couple of tar lease a few days ago. That was your peoples and that's with the whole audience. Yeah. That's funny. Listen, I love the way they run they they connect things from over here. They bought it all the way, I was not expecting that conversation. Everything that's going on that in the littlest bit. I did I had no idea that was going to happen. And I'm like oh shit. Yeah. She just cooked his dad and his brother. And now I realize they really painting Danny out to be to the evil one now. And I keep yet. He I've been saying this from the beginning from like how Tatyana how early since we've been watching this show that I've been talking about how Danny is not like, well, she small. Like a Cup of season or to back you've been call her the Walter white of grown so realize that far. Say she started. I mean, you were saying she was moving towards that thing where like you get past the point where you're doing things out of this city versus doing it because you can do it and. Ego. She hates to be doing any of this anymore. I feel what what what Tahoe saying about like like is it just a narrative painting her now on his different light. Or was all the information already there and people just refuse to see it always there. No. It was always this. She's always been arrogant. She's in now, that's what I said. When people say it's going to be John, and Danny it's going to be John. And Danny I'm like, no she's too ambitious. She's to arrogant is everything that she said for seizes. Now every work come out is about her rain Queen. I'm the Queen you going to bend in the you're going to come to my power. And like John is not like that John is a person who doesn't even want the throne. That's why he's going to get the throne. He's not going to be up there for his aunt. She's gotta go not. They just pushing it now like further they just showing us now why they're going to kill her. Yeah. And it was interesting that sunset like picked up on him having feeling. Ngs for mayor, especially after deniers came through on some like nice staff in was like super nice to her for Saint. She does get snippy and have words, and it's like, why are you like I get that? She's over someone just coming in with all these people. But what is this? Are you serious? You really think they come on? All right. You know, we don't say they finally told John he's a king. Do what do I think he's going to challenge her? No. But do you think that would if she finds out she's not going to find? Challenge with John. She going to be mad at Josh. You're gonna go hard ajar power hungry that Dan is power hungry. Yeah. I don't like everyone like suddenly thinking, Danny is suddenly unreasonable like she has situations in reasons why she does what she does. And I feel like people are using her history. Like, the west Rosie have a reason why they don't like Gary because they were able to throw off their mantle on they're able to get free of them. And whenever they came in. They came colonizing with their dragons. And so now that Danes coming again, they're doing the same stuff. She everyone is kind of already have their riled up their anti it. And they're going to keep comparing the mad king, but she doesn't necessarily have Polly's of a MAC king. And I kind of reserved my judgment on it has she change. Come this awful. It's going to be a bad clean. Like, I don't see that. And I don't see how everyone else's seeing it without having the actual justification. Saint as she is going to be about clean. She's had missed that. But I don't think necessarily that should be a bad ruler. And I'm reserving my judgment on like issue. You're gonna Abed clean issue. Just like this needs adjust to the restaurant's C the housing's get done. I still have some people around her. You know, I burn quite burn and the mountain the mountain's zombie. No, no. You know what? I mean. It took a while for her to get to that point. And that's my point about, you know, the nearest is like. I feel you and I definitely feel that about her not being the same as the mad came demand. Pain went through a lot of things to make him. The mad king wasn't as embryo a win. And it was his whole life that drove him to where he was. But I also feel like the narrows like she's already shown why didn't you stay in s o sip because you believe that your family houses right to west rose? But you don't even have a family anymore. You could've just done whatever you wanna their Esso's. If you wanna really show that you wanna be better than them. You know, be better than them. Unite Esso's completely do something different there show by ample instead of just roll into dragging burner. People up I part of need just really thinks that her having dragons and her using her powers, and everyone seems turban power-hungry on has dragons, but I don't necessarily see her as power hungry. I think that she still reasonable. She's not like the macking. I think that she still. Has ways of showing that she can be a good ruler. She can't think for the better good of west rose, and it's not necessarily just about her. But we have I don't think people are gonna further chance, and I guess we'll see that's going to happen in the season. I feel you. Well, before before we leave this situation with salmon, Danny Samwel Tarlan, Danny the narrates did anybody else catch the fact that like Sam well got this bomb dropped on them? Right. And he goes outside. Crying brand about the fact that his fucking family got blamed on and brand looks him like nigga guy every. You need to go. Tell like bribes like Kay help you there. Brands like. You didn't see that coming? He gives them a nickle every day speech. And then says by the okay, that's cool. But what you really need to do is tell John who really. Better. If you for that, that's all brand was thinking about brain is such a like, we talk about signs of stealing little finger. Brian is like little finger on. Never level brands even worse 'cause brain is rolling that man. Stuck in his tree brands out? You know, delivering the news everyone now. And and also see y'all in understand what I said it beginning episode old friend Jamie because that was my moment in the episode. I can't believe y'all of castle black pick up on when he comes out into the yard. And he's like, why are you out here? I'm waiting for an older friend. The man who gave me superpowers he said old friend. He didn't say he didn't say anything about that. You know, we're talking about this. I see something about a trial. Jamie Lancaster in these notes. But my man brand said, I'm waiting on my old friend. He said, I'm waiting on my old friend. No. But let's talk about the fact that brand was like outside all day all night. I felt like every time somebody new role through he's standing there right there. Like, I say you what's up? Where else are you gonna go? He can't get stairs. No, no, you know. No shots. But you know, this is a tough one for brand like creepy like professor x outside all day. I mean, you just described brain one hundred percent like professor all day like. Does he may move is? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yankee here he can push his wheelchair. But like that's like brands tender bio bio light creepiest, professor all day like that's straight up in his tender. And but I still like ever since every since we mentioned it on the last episode now, I'm like somebody's gonna push him down the flight staff. We're going to do a mystic glasses. Nation as a water. See I don't know because he will keep that save face. You know, we already know that we already know. He would keep that same face, and the memes, you know, we'll be never ending. So yeah, they don't need to do that. Oh, man. Get started at ready. She started. And there's another scene that happened before we got to what might have happened. Right. Was it right before right after it was right before we got to Jamie that shows that children are not safe in wrestles whatsoever. Which is why another reason why right? But why just yet another reason why it's so important that these start kids get their shit together. Because. Yeah. So we finally meet up with our buddies torment backed Dr Ian, and the rest of the nice watch who are showing up in number territory, I presume to go check on the numbers and see what they're what they're doing. Because Santa has sent the Lord numbered little kid to go gather his troops and his people. Now. So if you think back to where we often with torment in them in season, seven tormenting them were east watched by the see they were coming down from the destruction of that. And then the wrestling wash who will with divorce. Ed, they're coming from castle black. So I think what happened is that people castle black solid destruction that happened. And he's watched by the sea on all the lead castle black and they're on their way to wonder and on the way to wonder builders number territory. So they're kind of walking through territory trying to figure out. Okay. What's going on? Where we going is. It are the walkers here. Get ready to fight enough make walking on this. So they investigating that. And that kid like did hit like screamed out like the Walker. They caught in season seven I thinking that the walkers are like they're communicating with each other with these screen. Just screams. Right. Okay. So they're they're they're doing their investigations. Now, they run up in each other surprise bitches. We good they're walking through. And they see what I can only describe as the devils handiwork. Where you see the boy that that Lord boy pinned up against the wall like doll surrounded by what can what is it like a a whirlpool of arms? I don't. Is the most insane art piece of ever seen in real life? And. Let it like art. And it was it was so demonized to me like I really felt repulsed by seeing it just don't understand why I'm sorry. I just want to say, I I don't why would the night king do that. Like, what is this guy because he seems so stoic? Paintings. Was going on who is this person. Man that was definitely performance. Art. Put him smack dab in the middle. But he has he's very good. All right artwork. Crazy. Could be in the met. No, not the mad. Yeah. I'm thinking that like just reminded me. A lot of one of my friends. We'll together is different images of the different symbols. And thanks have coming up over time and being with series and a lot of these spirals and stuff we see them when the night king terms of baby in earlier seasons. Recede indifferently children of the forest things. We see in the cage joining John is talking to Danny. And we see those files in different formations. So a lot of it is coming again whenever Danny brings the dragon saliva after drove oh culture. Go dies. Think a lot of it has to do with symbolism of like magic. And you know, the dragons the white walkers the night king the children of the forest. I'm trying to puzzle. The rue what kind of magic and civilization these spirals. Do our part of spell part of the shield are their boundary. Like, there's something behind the formations in the magic of this world. I have to go with. I think that the night came just those that because he's like some cool should do when I m fucking light Sam chats and Pulp Fiction like he's just. Straight up like, you know. To do. And I came on his best yet shit like type said he's trying to get into the met, you know, and that was some beautiful work right there. I mean, beautiful and grotesque. I didn't even realize that that was the same Lord number. Boy, I actually thought it was the little kid running around from the opening brand number two who was climbing up everything trying to get his superpower on. But you know, I know I know that actually just right now that I realized that that was brand number two, you know, running around climbing on stuff. But unfortunately, you know, he didn't have the man with the golden touch there to bless him as well. Because you never know what could happen. Okay. So I think we covered everything season episode one-season a if I'm not mistaken, please jump in. If we miss something important. There's a lot of foreshadow in general in this episode. Like there was a lot of like there was one bid MoMA where I will put it again. The Danny is gonna die is when she when they wrote up, and you know, after their magical ride through the, you know badly. Looking back. It was ridiculous because it's like at one point Danny season to a dope move with the dragon. And she's like, oh, I can do the dragon. And then this isn't Tony hawk like, what are we doing right near the same time for that. And then they land and they go by the waterfall, and she's like we could stay here all the time and John at like, I'm doing grits. That's in. That didn't work out with right? Like, oh, oh, you know, you talk about being losing three. Oh, Lee Jonah's one for over girlfriends right now as well. But you know, he's I mean over one, you know, he's taking ills. You know, something that's important that come to mind that we didn't speak about the fact that Braun was basically given charge to take out Jamie and Tyrian don't do it. You don't think so? Now, we've we've already seen. He already saved Jamie, we've seen Braun passive gold in order to do the right thing already. You know, bras pass the goal point. Now, he's not on anymore. He's doing and they said they pay them up front. So wanted not going run. This is starts talking about. So she's not gonna let shit slide yet. But we know that Veron like he knows what the deal is. Like he's going to get up north. He's gonna see Tyrian drain, and he's gonna know that servcies after stuff in he's children, regardless. There's about all of their heads. And Brian got a dining about it ended. This. Gonna survive. Yeah. He goes to season either way. So. No. I realize ten millions of sneaky more fundament Tyrian, literally, we think about it. He's really on the other side trying to kill his family. Like, that's crazy. And he's not really good at what I used to really like Tyrian. And then I started thinking about it. I was like he makes it worse war decisions. He's a brother trying to kill his his whole family like killing all off the map, take the house. They took his how he sent him to the castle terriers little sneaky Bassett, man and light Sandra fed. She used to think he was cleverest man into worms Naba you. He's a sucker to tearing up, man. You know, y'all be for people. I love -tarian. But you know. Yeah. I like that seeing signs of said that term that that that showed me more. She knows like she's knows the game. Now like, you say she she took little finger powers all of them. And that's most of season keep saying season. But season eight episode one is a rap. So what are as Porsche mentioned? You saw some shot him for the next up. What is our predictions for that up so episode chew? Hugh. Somebody gotta die. I said that for this episode is just wasn't it just wasn't a main character that die for me. So but like every episode somebody dying. I was pissed off. I ain't gonna lie. I was I ain't gonna lie. That might be me myself. I did it. I was built up. I thought like three people was going die. Every every not in the first one. I knew nobody was dying. This. Her dying this. I thought it I said I wouldn't put my thoughts behind it. But also when I think about it. It's actually good. They didn't that this episode was a little mild because as I mentioned at the top of the show like this is been height bee's nonstop for two weeks. So like people so your blood pressure already mad high. So last thing you need is the very first episode something just catastrophic happens, and you get a heart attack right in the so are they did that to just kind of keep everybody on the level? Our winters battle winner photos. Three three that's three. That's when people are dying. I think even that's we nobody does they hold off. I wish wouldn't I feel like there's too many people. So I'm ready for everyone. Certain hang as usual. We wanna hear from you all listeners are castle black family. In fact, I thought we need to name the people who listen to this show like there should be a title for everybody. Maybe guys are all part of the nice watch. I don't know. But. Black wants the Black Watch. Polo team. But. Don't say taking the black. I don't know. We'll we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. But in the meantime, we wanna hear your take on what you thought about episode one from season eight we wanna hear your predictions for the rest of the season in order to do that we want you to help us up again at castle black pod on the Twitter on social media. We want you to make sure you're following us because we're dropping at school all the time. And having a great time live Tweety and talking about all things game of thrones. In addition. In addition, we want to get you. You can Email us contact at four owners dot com because as you guys should know by now castle black is powered by all nerds. And in addition, we want to mention something that's coming up. We have a live event coming up about it Porsche. Hey, everyone. Yes. So all the New Yorkers. I'm sorry. New York, that's your bad. But it's good. I lived. We're having a trivia night that we are co running the trivia AD happy to work with them as they. When the night, and we are team Catholic. Details will be in tweet that will be on our feet. Yeah. So basically, we're gonna get could be any amount of teams teams of what four or five people can come together. Or maybe it doesn't even have to be. I think you could even play as your own team. But the point is you would come out there do game of thrones trivia, have some fun times with us at the castle black crew and also drink, and, you know, just be generally cool. 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Visions in the Flames 2021 Part 9: ASOIAF TMG Updated House Baratheon Tactics Cards and Commanders revealed!

On The Table Gaming

38:17 min | 4 months ago

Visions in the Flames 2021 Part 9: ASOIAF TMG Updated House Baratheon Tactics Cards and Commanders revealed!

"Welcome back to the table gaming on this episode. We'll be looking at visions in the flames number nine and specifically looking at the barath theuns big reveal of their some of their tactics cards and commander cards and of course we are joined by the by admire game. Designer michelson mike. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast chase as always a pleasure to be here here. The dulcet tones of your voice. They bring the enjoy. I see how it is. Okay now we gotta be careful on this episode. Because i know house breath our fan favorites often requested faction when the game was first starting out and we did do a livestream at one point where you share some of your views on some of the breath like standards breath ian so we'll we'll tread carefully around his legacy there. Are you talking about the fact. That i very distinctly said that i don't understand why standards sporadically and is a fan favorite character. That may be. It was live and we will link to that. I'm afraid to go into it here. Listen to stand by your convictions. And what's the point of having them. So i okay in the time since we started the game and i have seen the baratheon fan base and experience them. I understand where they're coming from. I personally am going like okay. I i get it that you like status for myself. Personally i don't get to the degree the online. That's fine. everyone has different taste. The only people who were straight wrong. If anyone ever said they were a fan of like callen start then. I would disagree with that person. I got some views on. Cabin happens with the the upcoming books. Maybe it'd be cool like lady stone heart stuff. I don't know. I can see whether or not the same character chase ladies sewn. Heart is an interesting dynamic. Character callen stark made most of the problems that happens with stocks. That's true that's true. She drives the plot forward. But we digress. Too much here. So did it surprise you at all when barack themes won the poll. You know it did. Until i saw the results in my brain. Of course. they won. Because i was expecting people to go like. Oh let's see what starts doing retargeting and then seem brad's at the top there like i was like okay. Well that's not surprising. Because in all of a sudden the memories came flooding back of just whenever we were initially releasing factions and people just lost only asking like winners breath coming when his coming like. Oh yeah that's right. I forgot those guys are kind of sanada when it comes to. That's actually the breath. Have their loyal faithful here. They are fanatic so it all fits into the theme here like i remember originally like we thought the knights watched is were very loyal and dedicated and then they were just blown away by the sheer volume of harassing loyalists. That just came out of the woodworks over the course of the games lifespan. Yep yeah but all right so and so we get to see some really interesting cards here and barath were interesting place when they first came out. And so i. I'd love to get into a little bit of how you see the twenty twenty one update kind of changing the direction the faction is in or kind of solidifying it more One of the things that often came up in the the the old version was that a lot of the tactics. Cards shared similar triggers. Right there was a lot of winter. Friendly engaged combat unit activates or. What was the other one. It's a friendly unit attacked. We're seeing this a little bit more. Spread out here. So let's let's talk. Maybe starting off with the barometer. What do you think you know. If you're if you're a barath and fan listening right now how are you. What's what are they got to look forward in the twenty twenty one update and then. Let's talk about these taxes cards and and how those might have changed. One of the. The big things about barack is that they're still one of the two newest factions out in the game. You know them in. Sardinian says the great joy out of the time of the recording of this even though we showed allowed them but they're still very young faction and it that makes them a little tricky to talk about because they still have so many units on the horizon that you know we have we've discussed but we haven't really shown anything about such as the kingsman the rail or light bringers. We've shown some of those before we talked a lot of the ridley stuff now because again status guys so fanatical but they're still a relatively new faction and that's actually why when it came to put together this article in the topics that we were talking about. It became a little tricky because breath by their nature. Have that loyalty mechanic. So you're talking about two subtractions in one and a lot of those units are ones that are coming out in the next few months But haven't been discussed yet so it may talking about them a little tricky so for this article. We decided to focus more on the tactics hearts. And then you're to starbucks commanders in your original related original status getting back to your question about the tactics cards. The breath here are a good example of some of so when it came to the tax hearts we were evaluating them just like every other element of the game and some factions had their decks modified more than others to barath. I would have to say. Probably them tied with target but Syrians are kind of a far second probably had more modifications in shifting in their baseline tactics than any other fashion and a lot of that was because of the original idea that they had a lot of powerful effects. They had a lot of overlapping. Triggers and the issue is that with the direction that we wanted to take the game. The twenty twenty one updates breath things were getting a lot of the things that we were actively removing from tactics cards or at least less than two degrees which were free tax free actions even if they were conditional or had some kind of drawback with them there. Were still the type of thing that we were actively removing from tactics cards making more rare so as a result it just happened that a lot of their cards had modifications that you know. Sometimes there were entirely reworked or changed in addition to that one of the initial design ideas behind the bratty de had these powerful effects but a lot of overlapping triggers. And while still that's a that's an option for gameplay found allow players just a created negative play experience for them that they just this. This didn't really come down to a balancing factor. It just kinda came down to like the whole feels bad. People want to be able to play their tactics hearts. You can have a de powerful effects of only if you're only able to use them every so often than people don't view that as basically being as writing as being able to play triggers more often even if they are less powerful so it's kind of like instead of going like hey i've got these two powerful effects that can choose from. The mentality is almost like oh. I've got these two effects. And i don't get to use one exactly so one of the things when we were evaluating the breath deck specifically is removing some of those overlapping triggers and giving them some more options for playing things which in turn tone down some their cards which you see in general across most the factions. Anyway but so again they required a little bit more just re tweaking than some of the other factions. Did that makes sense. And i think that's something that Some players had a hard time adapting to initially something. Maybe like you mentioned kind of created a little bit like feels bad moment or maybe you know the way. That situation presents itself is open to interpretation. That isn't as positive and so now with these new tactics kind of spread the love and it looks like you also may be shuffled. Some names around or abilities around things. Like oath of duty are now appearing in the base deck which i believe previously was a status card. It was in the original of the starbucks status. The one true king and this is just kind of one of those effects that happens as we're evaluating the entire faction in the entire game overall it kind of creates those little ripples or snowballs. Were you know okay. You change a which is going to have effect on be which is had an affect on c. Which the change from c. Is not going to go back and change an employee different ways. So you're talking about these things in a vacuum. It's hard because like you'll you'll talk about like okay. Well why did this baseline tactics change while the change because we felt that this commanders card we evaluated him. That card didn't really sort of him but still uneasy effects so therefore it got moved over here and it's entire process that stacks on top of each other win. All these things start coming together. Is there a base barath tactics card that you're particularly fond of in the twenty twenty one update. I would actually have to say that ours is. The fury is probably like one of the most powerful kurtz that's because of the versatility brings if we had to. That's a tricky question. Because again the tactics there shouldn't be one that is really like this. Is the thing that really solidifies. Ms the faction because its entire picture taken together but i do like for example ours. I think the versatility you have there. That's pretty sweet right. So now when a friendly units performing mainly attack before we roll the attack dice. Negative choose one and then for each zone you control among the crown or the letters zone you get to choose an additional effect so if you play your cards right like you can actually get a ton of effects or an pinch. You're still playing and still getting like a plus one to hit or sundering vicious like those are on their own still very valuable in the right situation so it's a flex card right so you're getting a good effects here being able to choose one of the benefits but it properly set it up. You're getting even more benefits related to the bonuses. The card which is how the tactics hearts function. You'll you'll have a benefit that in many cases was toned down from its resolve version. But then you have your ancillary effects if you take time to set it up or get into a better scenario here mainly controlling zones and things of that nature then you get. The additional affects cards. Yeah and those are just a great moment so in really high level play is probably going to be very unlikely that people are going to get you know. All three of those affects by. You can start being away. From the field to differentiate their skill level as they're playing more frequently getting better at defending or going for these positions. And i love how. There's like little windows to be skillful More opportunities like that. I am really a fan of that And so you know that was also one of the elements is making sure that the action identity and the core tenets of that faction functions are still built into the core mechanics of the tactics hearts so with breath they have their retaliatory fashion. You do something to them. They're gonna hit you back or they're gonna do something in return to you the old triggers. Were you know when you start engaged in the gave you some form of attack and you had a couple of other cards that would trigger off of other kinds of conditions but we really want to expand that theme more of you do something does. We're gonna hit you back in a similar way for doing that to us. But in a in a worse worse way and the old deck had a lot of focus on just tax here. We wanted to expand that concept out to do more things. Such as like putting condition tokens on units causing panicked tests. starting engaged with us and things like that so. Let's take a look at one of the two commanders here. Do you have a preference on who we start with status or ren li well so this is also something as well as much as i want to talk about status. You know in the fact. Like i you know. His family's is really really adamant we need. Fabio where's fabio he. He's the breath in defender here. It ballots enough. He was a dispose before we actually managed to get in. Here is out an internet off. And you're like all right. Now we can talk about breath unfettered but i will have to admit that of the to like you know the kings that we're talking about ridley lee and status and i know some people are even gonna get ended. The factory referred to really as a king. I would prefer. I prefer stanzas every character. I prefer his Just kind of his background in play styles that his side of the fashion brings. And that's just really because in the books you know. He didn't really get a huge amount of like i. Guess springtime page nine. Whatever you wanna call it before. He got all shadow baby. But you know you have a lot of people that are fans of ridley and high garden in general of but for me like the mela sandra the lower side of things with s. In the fact that you know yes he is kind of buying into this whole like fanaticism side of things but even he's just to kind of pragmatic to really fall into the whole faith thing. That's very interesting as a character goes. I actually like. I enjoy his dynamics as a character. It's when i say specifically my issues with him it's more so just like his rabid fan base. That's where it was like. I financial following. I see how it is sure and just to recap here standards breath in this card. Art is actually a very a very handsome man who is the senate's breath and again this art that is that is they are are art director for first is it just happened to be that you have random people are office that fit book description sort of like a chart you guys map up. You're like hey that guy looks exactly like this well so there was a bit of a a mixed blessing there because we wanted to put him in the game and he did carry a very similar description to a status aside from the going bald part. That was one of the unfortunate like trade offs as status called out several times as being bald slash going bald. That's not so yes. yes so. In time he'll agents into this perfectly if we want to shave his head and he would be spot on like one of those little trade offs right fair. Enough fair enough. If he's a he's a huge proponent of like of medieval history and things in the you know he. He is the expert in the company when it comes to medieval heraldry and art design in things that nature like. He's the one that designs the layouts everything initially for the The song cards like the placement of the heraldry which positions like the fact that all the iconography on heraldry always tilted medieval stuff. Like all these these little micro things like the common persons not gonna know. But he's a very meticulous about that's fantastic as a standard got a pretty big change here and that he has to orders now. He loses his critical blo His native ability and he loses his unyielding but picks up instead adaptive planning and order mar target. How do these kind of capture the idea of status as a character in the twenty twenty one update as we mentioned before one of the elements that we were doing is. We took each commander. We went okay. What does this guy do. Why is he cool. Why am i playing display style. What is he bringing to the army and we really want to push to focus more in that direction standard here. You'll his original cards. Had a strong condition token play and so we want to lean more into that. We also wanted to get rid of some of the just general. Commanders should be powerful but there should be a waste to counterplay across what they do and some effects santa's previously had were just like okay. Here's a freebie that you can get which is fine but we like seeing more tactical decisions before yes. He just a unit straight of critical blo and it was just a few had here. We've changed around so he mashes his tactics whilst giving benefits but now they're not just so kind of like freely given out is that makes sense to and i love the planning target at the start of any turn target one unit and long-range replaced one condition token on that unit with any other condition token. That's such a great ability to have and it feels like very status breath ian right. He can like adapt to any circumstance and make the situation be what he wants. He's that of a confident of a leader. He can read the battlefield that well really captures the theme right and you know. When looking at him you know he's one of the you know the tactical masterminds you know behind the war the five teams like he can. He's pragmatic he is ruthless pragmatics. A better way to go there. But he is one of the thinkers. He's not gonna. Greg oracle gained on the battlefield Up he's efficient. He's a calculating. And so you give someone critical blo. You know that's that's a very offensive capable of affect and you'll it does fit like and when you like okay. He knows exactly how you know to strike but we really wanted to push more some of the flavor aspects of and then again tie in with just as overall tax cards so adaptive planning to be able to switch out. Condition tokens on units. Mark target. Where he's able to just throw down vulnerable and then next round are starting next turn he can switch out oaken these all play really well into the tactics hearts that he is available as well because of harsh conditions which is starting any turn target when in a unit removing number of condition on unit and free shipping removed lose one ability until later the rounds that is one of the rare like control carts that exists in the game here because as we talked about previously hard control is limited to very specific circumstances in commanders and factions. So you're not going to have a situation. Where like you have a virus or walter that everyone has access to this so the fact that is here has an element of control to this degree. That's a very unique thing to him. And he's doing it through condition tokens so he's just all about the adaptability. That these tokens are bringing a just naturally but then also switching them out for various effects. Oh that's fantastic. And so that was actually rotating in. He lost his old oath of duty that became a generic tactics guard. Limited tweak and now this harsh conditions this is a. I think this is a pretty big buff and a lot of ways. That's a fantastic card is very strong card and i should be careful saying buffalo and we don't know the context of the rest of the but this seems in comparing apples and oranges. This seems cool and very useful to have. It's a very nice orange pizzas. We'll save that for anyhow and we'll take a moment to mention oath of duty specifically though because that's actually very interesting cards who bring up because one of the things that was across most the tactics cards the topic of triggers you can have very powerful effects but if it's a situation will trigger then it would create issues where people would just either hold the card in their hands or they would just pitch it because it's like well. I don't know when this is going to happen. So specifically you'll see in some of these cards here that were the ones that previously were when a unit was destroyed that tritter. Instead you'll see like duty here has much more open trigger of of any turn. This actually equips onto a unit and it lingers on them until the condition is met of another from the combat unit being destroyed. That's not always the case with these type of cards. Some of them are very specific. Like when they're triggers is but they're usually much more pathak's but this one here and others like it as you see the trigger window is much more broad but that's just for being the play the card gang out your hand getting it on the battlefield but then the actual trigger for it. Doing something useful is still that unit destroyed. We'll see that across a lot of those similar type cards where you'll stick on a unit which means that now they can also be planned around by the opponent and yourself and that affect will come into play when it becomes relevance that's awesome. I like that. That changed their maybe. Let's take a look at rally breathy and the charismatic air here and he saw better changes as well. So his boldness encouraged changed to include ranged attacks now each time this unit tax if it has full ranks gets an additional attack die otherwise it's treated as having plus one rank for attack die so Now that's extending two different types of units which is kind of an interesting shift so he could be leading in like a front line position or maybe a more support role he's still got embolden and then of course he's got his loyalty roundly barath ian. So how does this change You know what why this change wide. These switches here to runway. So there's actually another important change here embolden. In the fact that it affects his own unit as well versus previous which only hundred other now that changes actually done this kind of streamlining thing because that was something often overlooked where it only affected everyone else around and it was excluding this unit that was not really a balanced thing like yes it makes disability just by definition more powerful but that was kind of a mixture of like. Yeah the building more powerful. But it's also streamline thing like oh yes rights everyone else notch now. It's just straight up everyone so that was really the change their equal parts kind of giving us small buff but more leaning in the direction of this is just making more streamlined. Less less little micro stuff to remember. Now the boldest encourage change. That was actually done. The dice went down on that. And that's because in general you see a reduction of things of bonus attack dice across the entire game. Like you'll notice most of debriefing cars. You're looking at here. There's not a single generic card there that is actually just giving you additional attack dice. That is probably one. The rarest affects in the game is something that's going to be giving you dice. Most things are going to be giving you. Plus when the hits. They're going to be giving you a vulnerable. They're gonna give you re rolls. They're going to attack with higher ranks but very seldomly. Are you just gonna straight up. Get a dice bonus and that has to do with a lot of the mindset being affects will help you make attacks more increase your your overall reliability of your tax but not necessarily make them more powerful so it can still be calculated but there's less just extra damage potential. Their bullets encourages one of the few effects. That is out there so giving you bonus dice and you'll see even then it's primary effect is going to be just make you attack one higher rank rather than just give you the bonus attacks. That's just so you have something to build built not useless until you start taking damage now. The chef to allow it to affect range attacks. That was just kind of a general opening up of tactical abilities like yes we limited to just like may late but you can stickman range if you want it. Just opening your tactical options on where you wanna stick. These fell those breath and players that are only supporters. That you'll love the rains options like your storm grow. Archers or your bastard girls. Yeah i mean you can stick really breath and then some bastards girls. I mean the thing is there. You're putting him in a very squishy units boulder encourages. It's going to help you a little bit butts. They already have a sustained on the most their ranks so not the best place to stick them storm. Archers you're wasting the adaptive bit there but there there some options that will be appearing for ridley in other places and things like that but even then he's not really just given the nature of a lot of his other cards. He's not really one. The leans himself to well to raged options. Other guys. ables encouraged sure really though wants to kind of be in the thick of things. He's also one of those commanders. That's you know. He is the charismatic air. He's the one that you know. He wants to be the show star. That the showstopper the battlefields. This is kind of the contrast of him. And jamie lancaster who we actually spoke about. And i believe is the previous Article in chappie add Where jamie is all about me meeting on the battlefield so is really but if you look at jamie contrast to ridley jamie is all about buffing. His own units making them stronger and making it. Like how dare you come in attack me. Routinely meanwhile is not necessarily giving a buff to specifically his unit but he has buffing everyone in his immediate area. So you have these two very similar kind of personalities. The way they're the army is different. Words jamie is just this glory hounds. Well i guess so. Israeli but jamie's a glory hound in the fact that it's him and it's all about him in his units or israeli as yeah. I'm awesome look at how much awesome i making. Everyone else around right it just kind of like acting. As these little charisma parasites just become better. Because i'm here next time. I'm getting my butt kicked. And i've got conditioned everywhere. I can drop a wealth and charisma and remove all condition tokens from each friendly combat unit versus the old cap of thirty from ever in that position. Where i'm getting that buried in tokens. I'll be ready exactly. And so and then also you know the other thing is similar to jamie that we do see one of those double trigger cards on younger bolder and far more we've got the The regular ability and then underneath we also have starter. Friendly turned draw tax cards. If it's not like applicable and you wanna go that secondary effect you can drop it down so we see that echo you're talking about being somewhat similar to jamie rights and that kind of appears on the commander cards that are very specifically linked to that commander. Most of the cards will give some kind of buff for meeting conditions. Usually when their commander car it's based on targeting that commanders units but the effect is not really ingrained with them necessarily being alive. You're just kinda getting a little bonus affect sports but then you have cards like younger bolden. Former only where if he's dead. You're straight up like this car does nothing and so those cards ten a to tended to get like a secondary effect of like okay. If that happens. I can lease pitch this draw. It's not dead in my hand into deleted the rounds now. Of course you can. Sidestep this by running jockeying car or something. That can switch outs from the previous dead people but the point is is that usually a lot of those cards that were entirely dead if the commander or a specific condition could be met. They have some secondary effects that allows you to cycle them. So they're not just eating up based on your hands like a fantastic commanders here so now you're breath player. Maybe you've invested in one or the other side friendlier status loyalty or maybe just having all the options you have to twenty twenty one update. We see these changes. How do you think people are going to be feeling about this in general. Is there anything they should be concerned about. Or do you feel like the faction identities have stayed pretty on-track here will the faction identities have all maintained the same the thing that we have a big push for this update has always been to just take whatever makes that faction cool the reason you should be playing that faction to begin with talking specifically from style perspective not like a character perspective. Because if you're a fan of character you're gonna play that faction regardless like say. I'm playing barath sticks. I really liked that retribution style. Mindsets this is what. I like playing. We wanted to make sure that you're rewarded for doing that. Exact thing in the fashion and then when it came to tactics cards specifically opening up a lot of the triggers and abilities to play them they can just kind of play more of them but we also wanted to make sure that the you know what they contributed was kept in kept line. So you know lowering the amount of free actions that they just give out and i want to be very specific in that because this is something i've seen talked about a lot. Line is not this blanket statements of just removing free actions. It's removing the amount of them and also the conditions in which they can be played so like if you claim a specific zone of the taxes for like replacing that zone with another effect. That's not giving you just a free action. That's something you expending resources or something to do you or like a unit of yours is destroyed. Getting attacked enter something. These are conditional things that are triggering. What we're removing or toning down. A lot of is just things that would be. Hey play card get free attack or you know. Hey play card get a free move action you can still have effects are like that either been toned down or reworked so there's a few more likes conditions to be met that's got general idea behind this not so much just blankets. Oh you can't do anything you know you can't you. There's nothing that you get that school for free or whatnot. It's just limiting them in scope. Tactics hearts should be supplement to strategy and tactics. They shouldn't just be. Oh i'm just play this powerful effects here boom you know. Now deal with it and that's only make sense. I think you know maybe sometimes a danger is when you guys talk about your broader philosophy and approach. Sometimes i gets taken from like philosophy to like ironclad doctrine. And you guys. I'm assuming you reserve the right to add free actions or things where you feel necessary. But the overall philosophy of the update was to reduce those or revisit. Those was that is that a fair analysis editor. Well it's one of those things like there's no limitations to anything we can or can't do you know when it comes to the game for what you added like another tactic zone by pre that became apparent. Where like oh. There's a lot of room here right. it's it's people basically kind of taking what is said or shown in thinking that that is like a hard stone set in stone rule or gospel. Or whatever wanna use their butts you know. Everything is fluid but even the rule of like. Oh hey we're only gonna let commanders three tactics and then all of a sudden we only we come out without worth and he's got four. Tactics starts at now. All of a sudden the rule that was very firmly established is now thrown into chaos. Or you know there were five tactics zones now. There might be six. It's a case by case thing so when you know when we go like we want to limit the amount of free actions or freeze people have you know. That's not a set in stone thing because you might have a faction all of a sudden comes out. That's like guess what these ads have a ton of free actions but there's a drawback to that in some capacity you know so it's just one of those things about people wanting to you should understand anytime we're talking about like broad scope things that specifically in the context of the broad scope when you start getting into specifics that's when things start can shift and change in those rules. Absolutely i think one of the interesting things about barath enes here. Is that what you've shown shows a lot of cool tweaks but there's nothing here that's like gosh like a total rework are like. Oh my gosh. The sky is falling like this all seems like pretty reasonable changes a lot of times it just like some some number changes like even with status breath like switching those two orders losing sundering but being able to market immune line of sight and long range and makes them vulnerable. You know it's like sundering that's under anesthetic but like it gives you a way to crack armor or have the a somewhat compatible effect. That seems very much kind of in line So really it's cool to see these these little tweaks here as we go. Forward one of the important aspects of the update was again tactical trade-off you know give and take the push and pull of the battlefield and the game play between you and your opponents so one of the big elements that we were actively removing notes. You know no. You can't do this. And that was real offensive and defensive purposes. A good example of offense would be like walter fray you know oh you brought this cool thing to the table because note. Shut it off and like you can't really do anything about that. Flip that on the other side. You had the old status breath with unyielding. Which was you know. You can't condition tokens well. That's cutting off the entire elements of the game. That has a hard no and those type of things are the ones that we kind of either removed or toned down or limited in some capacity. Like again you'll see here with status with the building you can remove abilities that is a rare effect but even then you're still having to set up a bit. Where you removing condition tokens. You're heading to do something it's not just. I can play the card shop your abilities. I'm having to do something. And then in other aspects you'll have like really really didn't receive a huge changes here from what his cards did previously. You'll see the kind of tone down a little bit like they will make me king. You know win from dealing to wounds or restoring to wounds to a single wound each and that was part of the general numbers reduction that you're seeing which we've talked about in length at this point so too much to that but that is kind of plays more into that you know a bonus dice that got cut down in efforts to reduce overall damage spikes that happen basically mostly affects in the game and most of the tactics cards most of the things. You're seeing are redesigned in the mindset of consistency rather than just boosting numbers. The going forward. It seems as though you're setting a precedent where we'll be seeing weekly articles about factions revealing more and more as we get closer to the twenty twenty one update. Is that correct. So we are going to start getting more in depth freaks factions here. And there's not really a form after these articles really take as to what we're going to be showing and talking about you know when we talk about like free folks. We might show some additional units this like an excellent. I mean it is kind of weird. Was it a little hard. Getting bracken's the first one because out of all of them like you could just show like a sample list but breath there's like it's kind of two things in one rantings. Were ability unique struggle here when it came to what we wanted to show compared to actually most any other fashion we could have chosen so like. Oh they're the first ones were showing because they won the pole. Well because in this case it's it's a two fold thing one. They are two sub factions in one. So you've got to play favorites. Here we show rene do we status because initially i was going to make an army list and go like. Here's what we're going to discuss. But that kind of became a problem because it's like oh were choosing In addition to that because they are still a newer faction most of their loyalty stuff is just not out yet. It's gonna be coming out in the next few months the next quarter along with the card. Pack and everything and so it became like we've showed a lot of their kind of generic stuff that they can both take so either going to kind of repeat showing that and that's kind of the options like oh that seems kind of lame so here we decided to go. Hey here's to commanders cards. There's all their tactics farts like next. You know moving forward when we pick our next faction arena show. It might not be the same formatting you know we might just go like. Hey here's a sample armless with some units that you guys haven't seen maybe one commander and an nc. You and stuff like that. But i have a feeling that people of course they're going to want to see the tactics cards all the factions. I now that we've shown that once we can't not show to then like that actions you riot in the streets and come burned down the on the table gaming podcast. It's a. It's highly flammable. So we'll see it's the beard. Hey so here's a thought There are a lot of release strong rathi players. There's a lot of strong breath ian painters what. I'm gonna do that when i post this. Article on the table gaming. Facebook page What if people post some images of their units that they painted up and before we do our next visions chat. Maybe it was just like quickly look through them and maybe that might be one. That might catch your fabulous. I was quick. Shot out to a really cool painted unit of bradley and troops. That sounds like something you might be interested. We can do that because we kind of tied a little bit together as well because our marketing guys like when we put that poll on facebook to see which faction was actually against selected. Sorry we wanted to put up a poll but apparently facebook pages don't allow you to put polls unlike groups and individuals so that was a bit frustrating. Yeah i've that too or you can. You can only do two options like won't let you or like limits it now. It's pretty messed up pain. Business page yeah exactly because it's a business pages you. You can't do stuff like that. There's different say the poor people just just civilians. Apparently everyone's equal because someone some comments about that. And i like yeah. I know exactly what's going on here. It's ridiculous as a result of that. You know we post up a bunch of the painted units by big child which by the way in case anyone is unaware big job creative is the one that's sculpture. Paints all of the use of we have here with approvals and everything through dark sort but we can do more stuff like that and we're debating on how we want to handle the articles moving forward if he wanted to basically do a popularity poll every week and going. Okay here's the remaining options. Here's who we do next. And then just kind of work our way down or if we just pick whichever one we wanna talk about. We'll we're still thinking about that. How want handle it. So we'll see. Is there any benefit having him later. Like so if you're someone who's a die hard fan and i've been waiting for my faction but you're going to be like three or four weeks from now or any of the later ones as possible. They might reveal more or less or does it not matter when they come out at. Just say it's like you know choosing the prom queen. It's just a big popular contest. Well in that case free fokker back in the ring for next week. Then if there is any bulls. I have to say that like thinking about the different articles in what we would post the free folk one would probably see a number of units shown because i think that is interesting. Interesting design elements of the faction whereas like ceratopsians their tactics cards and the retrospective nature of their army. In addition with having a winless ridley stanley. A loyalty split. Those are all very unique dynamics to talk about when you talk about the free folk because of the unit diversity and how they interplay that happens there that has one of the major topics you talk about so this is why like the individual faction articles are not gonna follow a formatting about right. We exactly talk about. It's really gonna matter on each batch. Absolutely that makes sense. Well i look forward to talking with you guys more about that in the future. Thank you so much for coming on and for putting out these articles. It's really great to see these weekly articles There's something i think. A lot of us are really looking forward to and keep up that good workers that yeah thanks again and we do it all the community here. So there's any specific like things that we'd like to see discussed or talked about necessarily just relates tactics even hobby aspects. That type of thing. You know just suggestions here on our official facebook page or anything like that and we'll will facilitate folks. Thank you so much. What i'm going to have you do is when you're listening to this episode head on over to the table gaming facebook page and where this posted drops on your images and before the next Time we record. We'll see if we can have fabio and michael take a look and we'll give a shout out to a barath ian unit or or we could also throughout two characters as well. 'cause breath do have a few hero box items and we love to see your painted stuff and we'll give you a shout out on the next episode and the meantime we'll get your managers on the table on.

barath michelson mike callen stark sanada jamie barack starbucks ren li ridley lee ian right Greg oracle Mark target callen Sardinian barath ian ian ables kurtz jamie lancaster
Bonus: Game of Thrones Spoiler-Cast: Our Thoughts on the Finale!

The Polygon Show

47:06 min | 2 years ago

Bonus: Game of Thrones Spoiler-Cast: Our Thoughts on the Finale!

"Welcome to a bonus episode of the probably going show. So because it was said, one hundred this week, we did not talk about thrones because we're doing Pokemon RPG. So here's your special game of thrones. Finale bonus episode. It's me it's Ashley, it's Chelsea. We're going to talk them. Thrones their Ashley. All right. Okay. So guess what happened? We know what happened. Well Danny had her army. She was not sorry. She was not sorry. She did that, that was a big question. We were like she going to go, my God. No, she didn't. She was like, oh, this is my army regret. We're gonna free everybody from the world by subjugating them to our me. Everybody in the world and into heaven ailing them can we talk about how creepy and scary this fucking imagery, was though, like it opened up with full. What's it called in the new Star Wars movies? The new order like your hero imperial injury. Oh, I think the first question I had was, so they had the big flag draped over. Right. And I was like I asked her, I was like, did they bring ladders just for that purpose because they brought a bunch of people were in charge of carrying the flood in case or in the event that we win. And then I was like, did you get special ladders who's on drape duty? I just wanted to know where the drape was kept like was it on the ship? Whereas it like where was the ship? Yeah, I'm sorry to derail your narrative, totally mean I think obviously, what I would think, is that drove on how to tiny fanny pack but we never saw it. So how can we be sure? And why didn't the writers show us that drove on was wearing tiny fanny pack this whole time? I would like to know don't be great is if he had around his neck, a little barrel of Saint Bernard. Oh home. It would it be at the top of his neck or the bottom of it. Barrels wanna of this is your whiskey. And this is your backup. Ski. All right. So, yes. So Tyrian obviously gets into trouble. Because Dan, he's like, okay, you let Jamie go. That's treason bitch. You go into time out time. So he goes to time out time, instead of you know, so he can think about what he's done, and then the time out time room and then and then, and then fucking is it? No, no, no, no. It's not Jamie because. He finds that he finds that bodies earlier on before he's in time out room. He's very sad. They looked very graceful in the rubble. Can we talk about that shot? And how sad it was it was very sad. But I was like y'all skulls would be caved in, but together Jamie and zero worry lovely day looked so. Yeah. I was like, oh for being dead. You've been very well preserved. Right. It was. So I loved that moment of Tyrian, like unearthing, their bodies below king's landing, and like realize, like just knowing that he's the only Lantis are left and seeing his siblings bodies, and like they never got to make good. They never got like any kind of goodbye. Even it was just like, oh, God. This is so fucking sad. Even though they hated each other for cod conflicts, if they didn't hate each other for so long. It's like continue well. So using time out. Out room, you know. And he's like this is bad and John's like yellow this is bad. He's like, no, no, no. It's really bad. Your girlfriend is not well, and, you know, you gotta do he's well, I don't wanna be. Like literally, I think this episode made me realize that John snow for the entire series, his just been constantly like put on do. I mean in in John's defense, he just wanted to like go to a group where he was accepted. And then, like leadership positions have been put upon him. The whole time, even wanna be Lord Stewart. And Sam had to tell him it was a good thing. Yeah. I mean, he doesn't want any of that actually. I it's just an unfortunately, for him, you know, that's a quality, everyone likes, because they're like, well, you're not gonna go mad with power like some people so anyway, that came out of nowhere. So he comes comes comes. Oh, god. Wait. Yes. Reapproach my favorites in my favorite scene, which is, which is I called it Danny is walking to what remains of the conveniently preserved iron throne, and she goes in, and it is the same as the the. The dream vision that she had earlier on in the series where it was snowing inside the throne room. I called it. No one knows about that. It was. No, it was in the house of the undying that she saw that scene. No, yes, there we go. The wizards in Hogwarts. Yes. Docile and ward Sean's so that so that she goes in there, and she looks over and she was like, oh, John is wonderful. Look, it's the iron thrones as so much fun. It's so much smaller than I thought, John put it's ever so beautiful and John's like, oh, man, Danny. Yeah. It's, it's good. But you, you really you kill the lot of people. She's like, I know I know John, but it's for a good cause it's for good cause all going to be Queen. And he's like, okay, I know. But you can't use of everyone. And he goes. Oh, oh, God. Okay. Schorr and then she twirls around again, in her beauty. Course address John dance with me, John, and as he spins around with her. He stabs her presumably in the heart area, scientifically speaking. That's the Chessel region. It does. So just yeah. She does have that protrusion from the Chessel region afterwards. So if it's shocking, because, you know, he makes outlived her finally she finally gets sweet Jon snow. She's been spurned you know she got blue ball. She towards thing. And now she's like, well, you know, finally, finally, yes, she thinks she's going to do it and then she does get penetrated, but in the wrong. No mmediately destroyed. He's like I love you, but oh my God. And he's crying kind of I don't know. I don't remember because I was busy, you paying attention to the two. Very delicate lines of blood one coming from her nose and one coming from her mouth, which was kind of weird, and I know that they needed to make it look like she's dying. She she didn't even say anything when she died. She just went with honestly, I kind of which probably means he literally strived Earnhardt, because she probably couldn't physically talk. But I thought Clark did absolutely wonderful with what little she had left, which was communicating with her is as Tyra banks as you sm- is which wasn't smiling with her is if she was more like being, but she's raid with her is. So when I say she's dies sheet. Yes, she she dies. She is moment of praise for Melia Clark Amelia Clark pray circle here, great her face. She nailed it with these last couple episodes. She sailed it the whole season. Amazingly, also, if you haven't read that really amazing interview with her in the New Yorker, you should because she's so thoughtful about her character portrayal of nanny, and even jammies turn, and it's just like, really like she thought so much about this character in this role. And I hope that people are not shitty like because, you know, sometimes when people went to character turns bad people are like, like they were really shitty to Jack Leeson the guy played, Josh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. People were so sh-. She was a child child and also donates a lot of money to charity, and it's a good, but apparently he's actually the nicest boy in the whole wide world. Yes, and also to go slightly off topic. Sorry. And so few Turner's Instagram, just discovered recently because I'm an idiot. I don't know why wasn't following her. But there's a picture of her with him. Jack Gleeson at a formal event and she she's hugging him. And to the right of her is her feel safe. But now husband, Joe Jonas, Joe Jonas. And she's like sorry. This is my hubby. Oh, god. While you guys were kinda Mary anyway. It was mazing. He's great. So, so, yes, she's betrayed. And then a couple seconds later as we would all expect we hear this loud, screech and drogue on flies up, and he's like I send something's wrong something in their little psychic bond has been disturbed and he comes. He's like the bucks going on over here. What's going on in here, and he comes in and Danny's on the ground. Okay. And she's not moving. I read this whole scene. I gave him kind of the voice of Bambi in my head, and I was like killed mummy. Wow, more grim. But no, that's literally worth because like one struggle and kept nudging her body. And she wasn't moving no Simba. Again, we no polls who thought that you were gone was gonna eat her. 'cause I did. I did not know think. Bit. Okay. I don't know in that moment I was just so completely he was going to take her back into himself. His tender the way is tender little for it was I laughed so hard when that happened because Kate, it wasn't the framing and the shot because the clawlike comes Ross green, and yeah. And I'm like, oh, it was a loving this was hilarious. 'cause I just like the positioning and framing was like mine. I kind of see crunch up doing putting captain like I want this mine. So, yeah. And then he burns the throne, which was very symbolic. Very kazakh. However, I mean, I feel like all of us probably thought right that John was going to get roasted alive. But no. You know what's funny is that I think that if he were not part target area n-. I think that's literally, the only reason why didn't get burnt alive or anyone else immediately. So it's almost like, because I was thinking about this in, you remember at the end of like, like season six seven everyone made such a big deal of r plus l equals Jay, and that whole sequence the flashback sequence, right? And they make this big deal of his parentage and you keep thinking, oh, something through. No. That fucking plot device was there. That was his robes free pass free. This is rose free Pepsi's going on through Boston market cruising, like it's no big deal. Anyway, drug on does that picks her up mine flies away. We have no idea where he went. Oh my God. After that, you were like, well, I mean, Tyrian should be free, right? I mean because he's in the timeout zone. No. I don't. Okay. This is the most ridiculous part for me. Personally is like after this amount of time happens. Right. There is like an unnamed amount of time elapses before he is released from. Oh, yeah. Talk about this because like it was snowing one day, and then it's like fucking summer. It looks like it's the dead of summer. Like how long was this bitch? He had a long beard, but I but I think the I thought I it was like three days or something, they finally started to account for the accurate travel time at the time, it took them all to get kings fucking land use my fucking problem, if I mean, I realized there was no body at that point stroke, and taking Danny away considering how any Lancaster's grey worm in the unsullied killed? What do you think would happen if they like went into the throne room or John came down? It was like, hey, I killed your Queen, like how did how did he survive? Why would they not just execute? Him in what world would they not simply be like, wow, you've kill you kill the dragon Queen? We're executing you net right now. We're not gonna wait for a letter from Witter fell being like towed cannot brother bring him to a trial negotiate like what the fuck? Yes, a very fair point that I, I was just like okay, this point, I was like, whatever the show is gonna do, but yeah, it's so confusing, right? Because then it looks I think the show tried to imply that grey worm kind of assumes guess, leader control. Yeah. Leadership, which I feel like he was very I don't know, kind of gently referring to like the principle of the situation, the morals like in that I don't know like that. They technically didn't get orders to kill him. Yet put he was being detained for the purpose of being killed later. Yeah. So it's just kind of weird. Well, okay. Oh, wait. No, I'm talking about Tyrian. Yeah. While they were both being detained. Just. Yeah, you're right. I think I thought the same thing 'cause I assume that Tyrian would die right after that, because gray wormwood, he doesn't have anyone else left, Yanni was, it would take a while for any word to get there from winter fell. Yeah, I do not know how unless he is scape and sent to rape and was like I did it, by the way. And I'll come back and turn myself to prison, but Olivia promise not to kill me. He actually just grabbed all of the Milton swords from the throne and they can't get into the room because he soaring swords at them. So he's just been hiding in there, just buried himself in the lava. Yes, he's also, if you're that close to drag, and fire, you're fine. I guess ever on burnt fun Verdean. Okay, okay. But then the big thing is right? He'll be fast forward. Now there is a council. Okay. There's a council which includes Robin, Aaron the hot now who is. Never long bottomed. Now, I took me at least I'm sure it for you guys multiple minutes of like who those people in the end. Oh, no. I immediately was like, oh, shit. There is. I was like, oh, that's an air. And it took me until people were talking about it. Online that was him. So confused, though, like 'cause they painted a very specific picture of him before. And now he seems just well. Well, he's been he's been taken care of, by what is his name like, Royce, the way my Roy's morose. So he's like waking into shape. Yeah. He's been whipped into shape. Peter Bailers just gone. Crazy mother's gone. Like he's finally got an adult grown up. Oh, got a real dad. Now he's there. Okay. Now who else was it sounds REO was there Bryanne was there was there, Ed Muir, Tully? That was the other person. I was like I thought you were dead. I also don't at near was did I the last time we saw him as he took the he took river run back for the Lancasters. And then what happened? Did he end up getting married to that? Fragrance. I forgot. So, yeah, I think he did. I think he has a wife, but he never got to see her. And then, you know, all the phrase diets who knows. Can we talk about briefly? So he stands up and he starts talking. And then sounds a cut some down under says, uncle can we what, what was going on there? I think because shitty shitty he betrayed his uncle for the Lancasters. They were like you suck. He was prisoner most of the show in books. So this point, we should clarify, guess that at this point Tyrians like we should choose another king here, we should elect, one in our all the Garki this after I think Sam suggests that they should have a democracy, which everyone laughs everyone laughs at Macher like they about to event. Invent democracy, right hair, and they all laughed at it. Isn't that what they did? Anyway entered an ogre p. Which is where a small group of people, choose rules and chooses Leah. But that's still the leader. Like, so, yeah, they're voting for him to be king. Yes. See that happened. And I immediately thought of Monty, python, and the holy grow. He's like, I'm author king of the Britons. He's king. I didn't vote for you, as that's literally what I think I screamed like I would run king of west roasts that, but yes, foils. Well, I mean, yeah, we get to this point where Tyrian is like, what it's about stories and then each point, brand has the best story. No one thing no one agrees with also. I don't know. Was that just because the second that Tyrian said that it sounded so much like he was someone's PR person like let's spin this. You have the best story. It'll make the best for headlines it'll make like your story, more compelling. And it was like you are just a spin. Doctor, you set of big Ashley's been so calling him Brin the broken to it does suck. And I hate that. But then I do remember that he called himself, brand, the broken all throughout the books, which is only remembered after reading read it this week. But, like I think the still sucks context of looks like Tyrian just with that out. Yeah. All right. Like if you don't have that context, also, it sucks. Kenny be brand. The extremely weird. Because he didn't break, but you lived. Did you all see that coming? Cough me out. Caught me off. Oh, Santa will probably just sit on the iron throne. I don't fucking know. And then I this was my own personal opinion that, once they were like, yes. Yes, branch should be king. I was like, wow, I guess, this reinforces that you to if you are an extremely stone white man, you can ascend to positions of power without having to lift a finger. That's what he did because literally once they named him. I think I screamed I was like he's highest. Most of these people, haven't even encountered brands weird shit of like, oh, I'm not Brandini more. I'm the three eyed raven. He can't tell normal people aren't he literally say before he was like I can't be brand stark. Like, I'm the three, I Radio Big deal of being like I'm not the same person which I was like okay and then didn't do shit and then now all of his episodes magically. Oh, by the way, I'm human again. And I can be king. No. Yeah. Exactly. Guy came also. That means he knew that Danny was gonna smoke the whole town. He could have done a lot, but did not. Yeah. Unclear how much of the future, he can see. 'cause like he can see glimpses like he knows all of west is history. Which is why Tyrian like this is great because you can keep us remaking our fucking mistakes, again, which is all true. And right. But at the same time, he do that earlier. Before all the people died. I don't understand. I just don't his power has never been useful. And then at the end of the show, they're like, I'm gonna go look for that dragon like he's zones out during the meeting. I zone out during meetings, go look for the expense report, we forgot when. I laze over she's. Cisco. This is the matrix, she's gone into the Google. She's logging into a gentleman. Absolutely Merck's him by, like when Tyrian is like Brad and should be king and sciences like brand can't fuck brand canned. Good news pot is here. But I also love the thing that she pulled at the end where she's like in the north will remain an independent kingdom, and it's like, are you paying to me? Yes. I get it. They've always been their own kingdom. Yes. However, it's just so funny 'cause I feel like the look everyone else phases. Like we have done that I know especially your, your your who wanted to be independent, the whole time, also Dorn. They'll. Fuck him. I hear what happened. Adjacent share culture with west throws. Why would they not want to be an independent kingdoms happened and the get someone like what are you talking about? What's what have you guys been doing there? So I don't know I up like lays. Yeah. With the iron islands and door. And I think with everything I actually did think that they were going to do. Everyone is their own independent state, but no I mean, also maybe nobody lives in high garden. And someone has to keep an eye on Braun. Rauner mysteriously got put in charge who just what I totally missed also very infuriating. I know it's supposed to be funny about him just sailing through life yet. He's particularly like good person. He but he advances and sales through life. He's rich. He's, he's loud high. He loves money. Yeah. All his planets are very well aligned to what did you think of aria deciding to be a pirate and sailing away? Love it. I was disappointing. 'cause she never like she could have done anything else. She has particular set of skills, one, she has a better story than brand to where the fuck did that horse go. I know I big complaint said to in insomniac said, this is unrealistic, that you would give a young woman beautiful horse in one episode, and then never again where did she put the horse? Am I mistaken in that the end of that episode? It looked as if she were galloping out of the city. But then the last started and then she still like in the Fisher. Did you just ride to the outer walls? And I'm sure that the horse free and then mocked back on foot through the swirling ashes of humans. Oh, also on the council was getting dri. Yeah. Well he he's Lord of storms and now I know but he but it just I saw this me that it like, once aria announced shoe is going west. It's just like human the boat again. Common coming. Oh, god. Oh, brienne. Can we talk about the Brienne? Yes, we have to okay. So she is writing in the king's guard. Encyclopedia Wiki the rest of the episode is, basically like a clip show of what everyone is doing next. Yeah. Because there's no more story. Yes, exactly. It was a whole like five years later this happened. And so she's writing in it. She gets to Jamie's page which is unfinished and does not always the best things to say so she ends up writing tone of things. The thing that bothered me the most with that as her beautiful penmanship is that you could tell the ink was very much wet when she closed the book, that's all I could think about which was smearing it. What are you doing your? But yet she wrote, wonderful things about him, and I tear it up because I don't know some people feel conflicted, right? Because some people think that she's. Resentful of, you know, bitter that you know, he did leave her in the end for his sister, and then died. And then there's another that's maybe she still holds like a torch for him, even though you know, he's dead, and that she misses him hard to read in that scene. Yeah. I really wish I don't know. I'm not totally happy with Jamie's characterization at the end because I feel like, again I, I saw a compilation video of things I know people aren't always logical, but I just feel like they forgot that he killed. Heiress targe Aaron to save the city and like his whole arc is about learning to make those really really awful choices for good. And then at the end he I, I mean, I guess that's the tragedy of Jamie Lancaster. Right. Is that at the end he can't make that last right choice to be on the side of good and goes back to surf daddy, but I'll? Alike. Yeah. Really expected him to kill her. Disappointing. Also, as you were saying, as they had run out of story. So the way I think they finally, like ended ended it was they were kind of zooming out from what like a council meeting, and they were just like all kinds of shooting the shit. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know man. 'cause like to me, it was awkward. I'm just like if you're gonna do this, then you gotta play one in Rome's promise like you need to do that. You know, you need to put that like sweeping eighties. Breakfast close. Yes. So the best means that I've seen about this episode or the ones where people are recovering the ending with, like the end of the breakfast club, including the monologue or any other eighty song as if it were like the end of a sitcom where like where are they now sonza sat on the throne for blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that's really wasn't it. Yeah. Yeah. Wait. It's so yeah. They, they showed her sitting down, and you know, everyone is hailing the Queen in the north, which was a beautiful proud moment. But this was a very much like where are they now like the post credit? Oh, god. So Tyrian serves on the council, sunscreen in the north aurea goes off to be a pirate and go west of west roast, which is pretty cool. And I am I like that ending for her a lot. I think I'm pretty happy with that. John O goes north back to his, his way. So like it's supposed to be the whole like John Wong 's in the north. Yeah, he gets bite his okay, kicked out for his treason. But like exile back to the knights while I and then they're like, fuck it. How'd you like I know they briefly covered exiling him versus executing him? I'm just surprised that they went with night's watch again. Also, like, why would you need a night's watch? When there are no more white walkers, left seen a lot of. I don't think they made this clear in the episode, but I've seen a lot of people saying what they, they sent him up there. And then the night's watch basically self disbanded and he went north with the Wild Wings to just live. But it'd be on the wall with his left the low his husband warm and his husband. I mean he has a thing for red headed Wild Wings gave true. And that's the biggest red-headed wildly you can find and he got reunited with. Come, and they finally showed the pet finally God, that was the best part of the fucking episode. They all I wanted. It was good. He, he sunk his hands into that soft for you could see the soft for ghost beautiful face. Yes. So very tentative ten very satisfied with that pet. I just I still do have a question that I mean go sending was perfect perfect perfect perfect and Tyrian expressed hesitation at being hand, and weren't, they just like, well, you're going to be hand, and he's like, Ouaga wanna, and they're like to bed was that, it, you're smart. You have to be the hand or like he wasn't imprisoned anymore for treason, because there was no more Queen. Yeah, I just can't believe gray worms, like all right. Brand can be king. Tyrian can go free and be his hand John can wander off into the frozen north. And I am after all of this taking off. All of Danny's armies back to Esso's ES. Is that what they were doing? They were going back to us. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I mean, there were certainly leaving west rose. Yeah. Because I was going to marine is Dario still there. Oh my God. Probably. He probably doesn't know she's dead. Oh oh Dairy Queen is over there. Just I guess they're going home. What's the ship navy? Dario grey worm. I grey worm did not know that Tyrian asked John to do it do 'cause there's so many so much. I'm not that. Yeah. This is my main complaint about this episode. I think as far as finale, go, like I was, I was surprised that basically what I thought of as, like the action was in the very, the penultimate episode. Like I went into this thinking there's gonna be more action to get through in. It was basically like ten minutes of action with Danny dying, and then the rest of it was all just like slowly mopping up. Here and you go here that kind of surprise me. I understand why you know, there's, they had a lot of, you know, stuff to wrap up, and it was kind of nice, you know, and on a, a a relaxing. I got. Yeah. Yes, it was technically relaxing. Yes. Quiet moment. But I can't get past the fact that grey worm wouldn't execute tier and John two huge traders who presumably he'd had in prison for at least a week. At least what how, how do you think that this interaction where I genuinely like I almost want to act this out. Let's do it. Okay. Okay. Do you wanna be John gray worm? I, I don't know. Either rock, paper, scissors K. Yes. Oh, wait. A way flip a coin. That's the word. I'll just be John. Okay. Okay. So I'm knocking on the throne door. Hey, hey, Danny. Are you still in here? So I saw Danny coming here. John, but are you doing open the doors? Shut it behind me real quick. Yeah. So, Dan, he's not feeling too well, Ono my Queen yetter. No. She she's just shoes. Feeling really light had she just didn't eat anything for awhile again. You know, you know, I got some snacks, she'll be fine. I got some what she'll be fine shall I call some attendants? No, no, no. She's she's so good. All all take her back myself later. She's just going to rest. Is that is that drug on distance flying away? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He he went to he's hungry. You know, he's getting some. He's caught a sheet or something. Oh, it's so far away. I can't really tell Bree about back. I but yeah, I'm just going to tend to her really quickly you know, I think she's I, I you know, she might be waking up soon. So, you know, we had a we had a fight kind of, but everything's fines, too much information. Never everything's fine. Simple commander of your is yet. That's, that's fine. She's she's over she's sleeping. I think on the throne. No, she's lying. She didn't like the throne. So she's laying there. It might look a little wet, but it might lean should have a bed. It's, it's good. She. So she is so good. Isn't she is shoes her to serve her and hopefully for the rest of my natural life? Yeah. But have you ever thought about what you wanna do besides the after Danny, you should give that some thought you should give it some real thought just passions besides fight now that the love of my life has died? I really only live for serving my Queen. It's all I have left in the world, frankly. And if that were taken from me, I choke, go, I would do here in this the strange country with these strange people who really don't seem to, like me that much like it would just I'm I came here for her. You know, but if there were something there's nothing else for me. She she, you know, she, you know what? That's, that's so funny that you mention that she was telling me that she wants everyone to be happy. She wants you to be happy. She misses MRs, she knows you're probably so sad. So hobbies why don't you, you take up some hobbies and Dreyer? She's. Yeah. I'll report back to the men yet tell them to get hobbies come back with in an hour and a half. She should I have the hobby by then. Yes, go look for the holiday morning. I'll be back in an hour and a half with a hobby. Thank you. And that scene and avoided he avoided Tashin Simone. Wow. But what happened when he got caught? That's what I want to know. Is it I that's what I actually really wanna act out, which is like, how would he explain this just like? Hey. Hey out something? We're going to discover her body. Oh I thought you were blocking the door. I did want to. Yeah. Yeah. Jordan. You're like, oh my God. She's dead MC. No. She's not. Okay. That's how you doing thrown. Should've ended John sneaks out quietly, and he's not at the night's watch. Well, he doesn't see the body stroke on takes it away. Oh shit. That's. But, you know it comes in an empty throne, Milton thrown Johnny sitting there. There's a pool of blood on the ground worms like. Happen. He could've lied and been like drug on did it. Honestly, what the hell? He could have just been like drug on went crazy. What's stopping John from, like park cooling out of the throne room and coming up like from the other direction like oh, hey guys, I was just out for a run anything happened. Anyone seem Danny? I mean my Queen. Rush ingraham's. Like if she went that way, what I love head in hands. Either either that happened in grey, worm, sees the blood and the throne and goes what the fuck and either drawn said something bad. Okay. Okay. Wait. I think maybe this is his like big stark energy. Is that John kill surge? We're gonna take away. John comes out. And he's like y'all. I gotta confess. I killed her. Yeah. Right. I'm going to maybe put himself in prison. Maybe he just like goes into the cell in locks. He's like, I'm not coming out. Well, I'm afraid I literally was wondering how did he I imagine him on one side in like a like a minaret and yelling at them from the guy scanning quarter three? Have killed. I also I also. All of the doors you can't catch me. Standdown. Where's that fucking dragging? We're gonna burn that minaret down. I could just imagine like I did something we're not mad. We just want you to come down all. If you promise not to, to get not to hurt me. Yeah. We're definitely not going to hurt you. Don't kill me. Get get are you by see you holding a spear? Can you put that down to back? Yeah. Yeah. We put the spirit out, it's okay. Come out. Okay. Just my hands are up. My hands are up. I'm not killing anyone else please. Don't kill me. Our hands are up to right. That's a knife in your left hand. But okay schools are its own drought. That that got. He's don't kill me here. I surrender. What happens is he just grovel throws himself, gray when he doesn't he's historic what he does? So what does he do? And what is great. I wanna know what gray worm has to say just like you killed my Queen. Yes. Why the fuck did you do that? Literally the scenario. Only goes one way John's like I did it. I killed her and grey worm takes his sword and cuts his head off. Yeah. And I mean, the other scenario would be John fights back. And I mean maybe no, this would have to end with one of them. I thought like yeah. Maybe they were going to get into a fight to see who could leave the winner gets, like, you know, John gets to leave all put their weapons down. John comes out of the minaret, and then they got into a slap fight goddamn slaps him to do. Or maybe would love to think that they did this, like over a sporting match. Another play like a game in the courtyard of like some croquet. I, I don't know. You're right. Beats him to death. Croquet mallet. They highlighted the grey worm was the guy who threw the spear I he shot. I and that's what sort of whole thing. So you're right. He should have just done that. I can imagine that the only way he wouldn't have done that is, if he said, okay. Grey worm, I'm sorry. I did it. I killed her term me and kill me whatever you want. And he's just like imagining that, you know, maybe before maybe before she passed they were working on an anger management program together that they both have in it, right? That they both have like some time together. And they're just like just promise not to get mad just count to ten grooms counting. Spreading. I can only see him being like me Sunday would be like no save. Day died saying, jer Caro's shit. That's right. Burned a city down? Grey, worm was like these latest have surrendered, but I'm pissed because the love of my life is dead. Kill the Molly win win. John went to this whole thing, happy with, Danny remember, aria was there, something else that whole time like Lancers surrendered, people are getting executed and Tyrian is getting thrown in prison. John is standing there like a lump of Rawda just like shit. Am I going to take a leadership position? Again the socks you so upset. You remember how offended she was or the look she gave him when he like walked up to her. She was like basket dare interrupt. She's like, I'm basking. Yes. Yes. Give it yes. Give it to me. I'm the best. I'm the Queen of the world. And you're right. He just kind of waddles over the. Run. I tell you something. We can't. We can't suck. That's crazy, though. Yeah. You're right. A lump of rod. Oh, that's actually just like man. And then he got a wake just as I'm so tired, I wanna say anything like she's going to be pissed at me. How do I even bring that up and Tyrians like you have to fuck him kill her in John's like Unal? No, don't wanna, like make her. Yeah. That's what I don't wanna make hermet, it's okay, but you're going to kill her. I know push will be upset, but she'll be debt. I know. But it just is going to be mad at me. Oh my God. John, you are. Oh, John useless. Jeez. Do you remember that a John? Oh, my God before he was agreeing to kill her, and all of this stuff happened Daime gave grey worm a promotion. Yeah. A mass being the master of war. So the woman who just gave him a promotion who affirmed his life's purpose. Now that the love of his life is gone. You know, it's okay, he'll just be like that's cool. Men just walk out, just smoked me out before you leave men. I don't know offered him that good Kush. And then gray was like, I guess I was like I don't, don't. Wait wait, please Jonah's lighting his joint on the melted ashes of the throne. Never smoke on iron thrown before. But. Reason. You're right. Can I have one final complaint? And this is minute complained. So in the books, there, the symbolism of the throne is that sometimes they're just like, really shitty kings who are always uncomfortable on the throne, and get cut because it's made of sores, and there, I think I remember description of Danny's father who like always being restless on the throne and being covered in cuts because he couldn't like, the, the throne was symbolically rejecting him. I so wanted in that moment, we're Danny goes into the throne room for her to try sitting in the throne, and like just get one small cut. And I was going to is when she went in she started talking about how what she imagined I thought that she was going to get cut on the throne. Yeah, it would have been such, and it would have like cast that 'cause right after that John comes in, and I would've loved for that like energy and that doubt to be there like she the throne rejects her. And then. He like tries to put on a good face ago. She's like, John. It's, it's we're going to be great together. We're going to rule the world. Be my love. Yeah. Kills her. That would have been such good for shadowing. Really Audrius for shadowing also. But any good, good energy carryover? Yeah. I know that they wanted to be sort of, like delivered as a shock, right? Because it was sort of the they were going for this one two punch in that, like I sure surprise that he admits that she is still is Queen despite all like, oh, gosh, we're not going to say something what you just. Yeah. That was very odd. I really do wish that there was some kind of symbolism. But instead, we got hurt you know what resulted in my really bad. I don't know. Whatever impression of her spinning around the throne room game was great. So I think we have to wrap it up. How do you, do you have any final thoughts, because this is the last of thrones? We're never gonna thrown again. No. Except for the spin off set for all the spin offs, the five. I mean I I'm sure that it the there's a lot more nuance in the books, but I just so hopeless about him finishing the book. I would love for him to do that. Because maybe you know, I know that he kind of describe it as, like that's the general trajectory, but they just had to compress it. And that there would be other characters to contribute certain like events happening. Instead, it or slapdash thing I mean, in the books, we still have Ricken. We have whatever Griff Chris. I did see those what capture my feelings about it perfectly. There is a tweet that was a compilation of one second from every episode of game of thrones. And I'm watching this compilation, and like its honestly as a whole it is a fantastic breathtaking show like the stuff you see, and the stuff they pull off like all of it is amazing. It's just so sad that, like, I think a lot of fandom like, unfortunately, we'll just blind you to be like, oh, this, totally sucks. And then, like graded off. Right. Because it's sort of like riding the trend when it's like look this. Is obviously not been a great season but you have to admit like leading up to it. It's a great show. Iconic show kinda wanna watch it now. And did horribly like battle star galactica iconic show ended horribly. You know, I think I would call this not a horrible ending, but a mediocre one the very mediocre think that's how I feel about it. I'm so that's it. That's our thrones for now. This has been polygon shows final original series game of thrones cast until game thrones. Brotherhood comes out in twenty fifty not that long. Thanks, everyone for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. Maybe we'll do another. Spoiler cast for another show that we love some day we should just enact our favorite scenes from game of thrones spontaneous. Role playing John grey worm, I think we're really embody those character. I think we did. Yeah. So we're going to go to acting school now and be stars. Thank you. Everyone make sure subscribed. Polygon show and rate, it on apple podcast really that see you next time. Been show.

John Danny dying Tyrian Jamie Lancaster John gray Sam Ashley John snow Lord Stewart Dan Tyrians Lantis Chessel Ski Jon snow Heiress targe Aaron Jack Gleeson Leah Chelsea
The Televerse #401.5- Spotlight on Game of Thrones The Bells with Clint Worthington and Allison Shoemaker

The Televerse

39:31 min | 2 years ago

The Televerse #401.5- Spotlight on Game of Thrones The Bells with Clint Worthington and Allison Shoemaker

"Hello to the televise. This is Kate calls, like, and it's a it's not a Saturday. So y'all might be confused as to why you're hearing, the dulcet, sounds of my voice, and it's because game of thrones had interesting episode this week called the bell. And as you'll know Nolde as listen doesn't listen to show doesn't watch the show. I should say or listen to it. And so I had to call and some friends to do a little reaction many special episode. So. News of the podcast. And this is such a sad reason to have you on for the first time, but welcome after long last Clint Worthington from the school. Hello, and many other places, and welcome back to friend of the show. Elson shoemaker. Hello. So, okay. Listeners people hand the curtain, we've literally had a half an hour technical difficulties. So this was intended to be like a delicious lake crack into this bullshit of episode and really just linger in how stupid so many choices were, but I've got a heart out 'cause, you know, work. So instead is going to be quick and dirty. So let's start with this. How are you guys feeling about this final season of giving thrown so far and did this episode shift anything for you? Clint author to you. I can we all just for this remaining half hour to a full bodied scream into the microphone, I think, that'll probably caps later feelings. Yeah. It's so weird to be frustrated, but I am by this final season because, like too certain extent, you know, if you're part of the Twitter discourse around, like all the sort of quote, unquote, he'll turns that happened in last night's episode and all the big the big decision that was made and all the people on Twitter saying, oh well, you know, it's been for shattered since the beginning I feel like that's not the point the point. Is that it's been done really lazily? And in just the pacing is really poor. And it's also just so very frustrating that an episode that has such great cinematography and editing like, there was some great set pieces and individual moments in it is just still like let down by this weird weird rush to the end. Yeah. Elson. What do you think? Yeah. I mean I'm I, I'm sim- I feel similarly about the content of the episode to the way that Clint feels with the caveat that I am not in the least frustrated because I never expected it to work. So I'm a book reader, which I think, is always important in the game of thrones conversations. Right. And, and I really admire the books a lot, they can sometimes be frustrating. But for the most part, you know, I very much enjoy reading them. Big fantasy nerd, so Martin's interest in sort of dissembling and. Re investigating the tropes of fantasy and specifically of this kind of like toll keen style fantasy I think is really invigorating in cool. So it's so light Clint I wear my like sticking points is not in what happened so much. Although it is horrifying warfighting. But in the way that it's handled both in terms of some very bad writing and staff that is very obviously all dudes because nobody like, apparently, it made me just sort of sad for the two DS because. Just like it seems like they don't have women in their lives to say, like dude, you're, you're telling store, you're not intending to tell here in the way that you're framing this entire arc, and so both, like it's, it's not the what so much like the how in the win and the why and the general rushed pacing and like previously on as substitute for character development and some really, really weird things, but I also feel a little vindicated isn't quite the right word, but I guessed I guess. I don't know grimly satisfied that the show that I quit for quite a while for very specific. Reasons has reinforced all of those reasons in this final season, 'cause man for a while I thought maybe I was just inventing things, but, Nope, they really just do not have fun clue. I mean, I think that was the sort of struggle for me for this final season because I knew I needed to cover it, because I haven't new outlet, so I feel like I should be recaps, but it feels like for me. And a lot of other people this final seasons of game this final season of game of thrones feels more. Like, we just kinda wanna see what happens as opposed to being genuinely interested in what is actually happening in terms of just being keeping up with the cultural conversation more so than genuine enjoyment, at the show, and in that way, I suppose, I shouldn't be surprised that all the shitty things that have happened have happened is interesting, if I myself hyped and excited to watch each episode like the day it's going to air and then go like, so the second thought was was very good. This season had a lot of really nice moments. Great. There was if I could have seen the third episode I would've liked most of it, though, not. And in really, I think what is turned it for me. This this for as far as this last season. Goes is it just? I'm not going to say lazy writing 'cause I don't know. I'm sure it's very possible. They work their ass off to ensure that did. Yeah. So it's not lazy, but it's bad writing. Worked very hard at these bad choices, sad choices, and it. And it's really, you know what I didn't either saw those like leaks. Spoiler leaks about what was going to happen that came out like a few weeks back. And after some of the stuff in the fourth episode I was like, wait a second. All crap every single one of those true isn't it because they think this moment they had with Jaime and Brienne means this, and I was assuming it means that because that's the only thing that makes sense with the seventies of character development. They've done. But if they think that the seventies of character development, don't matter exist, that it very much follows that we're about to get all of this bullshit, which was spoiled and then we did. And so I was a little prepared going into this episode of what was coming and it was still worse. So let's just dive in with that. Do you guys want to go briefly through different like each of the different like story points? Do you want to focus by, like US star with some things? You thought they did well, or do you want to just go on, like a cause for me, just about everything in this episode is done poorly, as far as the writing goes, and is a betrayal of the show in various ways of. So I go character, my character or I could go like character based plot based. Themes of the show based general narrative rules-based. How would you guys like to? How about I don't think it's the worst thing to start with some positive things just because I don't want to get so hyped on, like dunking on a bunch of nonsense that I forget to talk about some really beautiful costumes are the score, which I'm just dying to hear Kate's thoughts on because I thought it was so wonderful. And I was so desperate to focus on positive things last night that I was just like dwelling. Endlessly on the score or like I think some of the acting was very good. And I think in particular there, there are two actors who were tasked with basically single handedly saving storylines for being total garbage, and they at least one of them ultimately failed, but no one could have succeeded. And she did a really good job. And like trying to make it work in spite of literally, everything. So, yes. So maybe positives first, and then we can go, I think like category by category or story by story, whichever is easier. That I wholeheartedly agree. Let's, let's do that. Because I think you're right Ellison Amelia Clark does as good as anyone ever gonna do when tasked with what this episode tasks her with. And we'll herculean will serve us back to all the ways it like sets up for failure in his betrayal of the character, and you like though, those, those little like clips of interviews from like a year ago. Right. When they finished filming that have been making the rounds just makes so much sense. Now. Where they asked, they asked can Harrington, you know what is was his reaction. He said, disappointing. They. Yeah. There's some some really delicious reactions from about a year ago when nobody was paying attention. But a million Clark is fabulous. In the moment that they give her to decide to her character is gonna go from champion of the people to slaughtering tens of thousands, if not more for no reason. And, and I think that's all you know, like I don't believe it. But I think it's not her fault believe it. Did you get thoughts on the moment? I agreed. I did feel it did feel weird to me that they decided to the beginning of episode showcase how downtrodden and how disappointed in broke. And she was after the events of last week and missing days by showing her retreating not eating not in one conspicuous close up. Not even wearing makeup, which I felt was an odd choice, but yeah, no. She's she's doing what she can to elevate this weird stuff. And I almost wonder if the episode would have benefited from us. Even seeing a little glimpse of her during that latter half of the episode after she makes the decision or if it's narrative, -ly best served by just leaving her out of the way if they remember that she's a character who's choosing to do this. And not just someone writing address. Yeah. Just like a force of nature. But like she should probably have thought about what's happening. Yeah. Elson getting here getting super shady in what's supposed to be our positive portion. That's okay. It's, it's Kate. It's baby tree. It's little. I mean, I think that she's it might honestly, be my favorite Emilia Clarke performance in the entire series. She's just incredible. In spite of the fact that it makes no sense like if anybody could have sold this she could have and to be clear. I'm sure we're gonna talk about this more. It's not what Danny does that doesn't make sense. If you were to legs zoom really, really, really far out and look at sort of where the story is taking her. You can kind of see how this could in theory, be an end point. But it makes no sense with regard to the character because they haven't at all prepared for this to happen. It feels completely abrupt. In terms of the writing, and the filmmaking and basically everything along the entire frigging way, though, the whole marketing, like all of it. So. The fact that ever comes close to working, I think is pretty much just to her credit, frankly, because she really sells the despair and the rage, and like the weird perverse thrill like all of you get it wordlessly essentially it because she's got there. So little at the beginning, and she couldn't those saints too. Don't get me wrong that the scene with ferris on the beaches, chilling and the same with John is bowl shit, but she really sells it, but those shot those silent shots of her are just Justice. Donna shing. And yeah it feels a little bit. Like we're gonna do sports analogy it seals. Like sometimes if an athlete gets some way like disrespected or dismissed or underestimated. They'll like go off and have the best game of their entire career. Right. Like you've picked the wrong guy on the wrong day. He's just like completely empty everything. He's got in your general direction and you're not gonna know it, you it really is like that. It's like Amelia Clark handed the sack of crap, and she was like, great win me a fucking. Emmy with this, you know what I mean? And she sadly probably won't because it's so terrible. But. I want to commend her for finding a way to treat the character with more respect than the show does. I if we're still on the subject of things we liked about the episode is still like I don't like how we got there. And I don't necessarily like the narrative reasons for it. But as a piece of spectacle of apocalyptic spectacle, that sort of raising of king's landing, I thought was really well done, it reminded me, a lot of children of men and weirdly enough, and I mentioned, this, my recap that palm pay movie. That kit Harrington did a few years back. Yeah. Even just as a sheer bit of like spectacle. You know, I liked that premise of seeing the raising of this entire city the city we sat with for like seven eight years. Probably close to a decade now from the perspective of the people who, don't normally get, you know, a lot of time with whether or not our is the best vehicle for showing that the ladder things a different story. But I just thought in terms of just the sheer the idea of it, and the concept and even the execution was really was really, really cool. Okay. I, I was so in pissed off that I couldn't even enjoy the pretty fire, but yes, it was. Well, like you know, it was good CGI. Right. I was going like this dragon, who is obviously actually breathing fire onto these, it isn't people, this, this plot choice is bullshit, as opposed to this dragon looks bad. Swim better. Get drug on some tea with Honey. Yeah. This is probably really itchy. Another thing that I actually really liked. I didn't like it the first time because I was through 'cause I did watch it a second second idea. Did watch the second time so that I could like make sure that I was felt strongly confident in my opinions and do but the second time through the opening stuff with various thought really worked. I think they did enough to underline that he's have tried to have Martha poison her food, right? So he's like actively trying to assassinate her. So therefore, her killing him like is completely justified to make sense. Just part of the problem with her later turn, but we'll get there. But I also really liked the stuff we got with Tyrian in various, the beginning thought was spot on, really, well, acted really, well written, I thought have about half of what we got with Jamie, and Tyrian was really great and half of it was bullshit. But again. That none of that's on the actors some the writing. And yeah, I felt that there were like a like the death of hybrid was just delightful like one. Perfect spot on way to kill him barked by zone creation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's I think, what I would those are the things I can point to as far as being effective. Do you guys have anything any other things that work for you in the episode? Yeah, I as always think that costuming is really excellent. I think that Danny's cost him in particular was released smart, and looked amazing. But also just like told a really good story. I thought the sort of reins of Casamayor remix was kind of beautiful stupid, but notable and I thought maisy Williams was speaking of mostly wordless performances. I thought maisy Williams was really excellent. Again some stupid things in there. But particularly that like just so on the nose stuff at the end, if it worked at all worked, both because it was beautiful to look at, because it was really beautifully filmed. And, and because she is so fucking good. So yeah, but I mean like Dink was really good just like that, acting in general. I think was very strong in this episode almost, as if, again, someone told them that they were not going to be on the NBA all star team as a group, and they all just actively to be like the hell we're not. Let's make this work. Tonight. They have to save the youth center, totally. They just were like, Nope. Not not today Satan, not today. Yeah. And then I was gonna say something else that over. But it was I don't know. I'm, I'm rooting we were rooting for them and still rooting for them. I just wish that they were in a better show. Same. I am not still rooting for them. They have lost any chance that I'm going to root for them. I mean, the actors the actors not the show, though, like I written for the show going into this episode. I was like, maybe they'll like, you know, some of the stuff is stupid, but it can be for me boil down to the fact that I just see and understand the characters differently than the show runners, do like some of the characters the big one in this episode is the big too. I guess, our Jamie, and Danny, we both watched the same things, and, and in their case wrote it and came away with very different characters are, and, but that doesn't mean that they can't do a well done version of that character even if I disagree with it, you know what I mean, and they shadow over that for me with this episode. Because of because of so many of these choices and you, you mentioned the range of customer, right? Previously about my thoughts on the score. And I I'm not as into the game of thrones score. Most people are I think, obviously remained Djawadi. It's very good. What he does. He's very talented composer. And there's a reason that, like, for example, thrones theme is a comic among TV themes, at this point, and there's a lot of really vodka powerful scoring over the course of the run of the show. But you're gonna like how did how did Jamie and sir c become our point of view rooting for emotional characters at the end. And what season are they lifted from because those are not season a me? Orser. See. And so when the score comes with the rain rains of cast mirror and I'm supposed to feel connected to it in some way, just the talking rebels to quote, a better HBO show in the same thing with Tyrian to the writing for all three of these characters in this episode is such bullshit that I just can't even connect with the concept of the Lancasters anymore. Yeah, it feels like they're relies on them making these deliberately kind of dunderheads decisions that especially for Jamie really feels like if you're going to pull a reversal where this notorious jackass, who sleeps, the sister is going to start teasing towards humanity. Only to pull back at the last minute. They there so many ways it could have done it better. And also just just the way they go out. And also the way he's been treated all season. She's literally just been standing up on the spire for what five episodes now like the. One of the greatest most complicated characters on this show who's been through so much, and they just literally, they literally put her up on a pedestal, and she doesn't even speak really. I think until Jamie picks her up. Yeah, look after watching her grow as a villain and of fascinating character. The just really weaving, her own fate, the death for C Lancaster. That makes the most sense in is the most fitting in narrative Lee satisfying is having her, like smashed under rebels. I guess, somewhere in me with Jamie, like, that's, that's what makes sense to pay off your was the point of that gal bullshit. You're on Jamie fight with. Boys. I forgot about it for just a second. I looks to camera. I finished writing about it just like ten minutes ago, and I had already forgotten it even happened. Yeah. For yarra. I mean come on, like, who thought that was a good idea. And the answer is d and as Elson, you privilege stated, if there was ever a sign that they needed other people in their writing room or just to talk to them. You know, maybe let's talk to some queer people and, or some, some straight women anybody attracted to men and they will tell you that you're on his networking, and not interesting. And it's been a massive failure. So he doesn't work to have a big climactic battle between him and Jamie, if anyone's gonna kill your, your on besides drug on it needs to be Jahra. But apparently she's works you'll ever seen we're servicing. Yeah we're skin in the game. Well, and also the whole the whole thing about I'm he looks to the camera wink, wink. I'm the man who killed Jamie Lancaster, only for them to not use the wounds to kill Jamie Lancaster. Yeah. In the notion that he that, that is very in character. Him to die thinking that he's done some granting that he just hasn't done. He's just wrong on that, like that. I do think that, that works on a level. But, but it's not interesting, all the various things you could do in this episode. That's what you carve time. No one cares. We were happy when he got just burned theoretically, if you just don't have jump off the ship. Come on a lot of jumping off ships this season to tear things happening and not drowning in your armor. Yeah, I feel like we're gonna get some more of these character moments before we run out of time here, but I feel like one of the biggest betrayals they have in this episode that is the most frustrating than drug on is invincible and scorpions are useless. And so while apparently dragons can't like see things like ships that are hiding in the middle of nowhere that can see the dragons dragons can't see them, which is how you can shoot Rageh three times. Times with no notice, but drug on with an entire fleet. Suddenly, I guess Danny Redbook, maybe it's one that Sam left behind when he when he went off with Gilly, but she knows tactics now that she has never shown, and also yeah, there's no concern that may be drug. I was gonna die end. So instantly all the defenses of king's landing are useless end. All the scorpions are useless, and it's don't you guys understand is the penultimate episode. So that's what has to happen. It was. It was so bad. I mean, I guess if you were to hand ring around excuses, the whole regal thing, I feel like they made a point last episode of being like, well, they're tired from fighting zombies, so they may not be at their greatest reflexes, but still it was. It was so forced. And it was like the most agree, just kind of an I hate to say it plot armor, you know, it's just it was just there for the sake of. Overcoming? I guess. Yeah. In now, if that's all it takes two to burn down the walls and kill all those destroy of the scorpions. Why didn't she just do that earlier when they were going to parlay? Yeah. When they did the whole money python seen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It was a whole a whole thing L sent did that bother you. Oh, I mean, sure, you know. All like at all bothers me. I just. The show has alternately been invested in Danny, as either at once in a generation leader or an inept girl, off, and on for seasons, like, of course, one week, she's a genius strategist who doesn't even need to fill in the person in charge of her army as to what the plan is. And of course that week prior she can't even get it together to send neither. She nor anyone working with her gets it together to send a scout ahead to make sure they're not about to be ambushed. Like, of course, of course, that's what happened, the showed isn't actually invested in her qualities as a person or leader. You know, it's all it's always been about narrative, convenience, and could we always can we all stop pretending John's gonna make this great king early on with various interior. And where VERA says he will rule wisely and well, how do you know? So here's. Here's my frustration. The I hate to be one of those in the books people. But in the bags there is this whole. Under like constant seem of not a good person isn't always a good leader bright and a good leader isn't always necessarily a good person, right? Like some of the people who've been effective leaders have been shitty asked people, and some of the people who are excellent, excellent, humans are terrible leaders. I mean, like obviously, that's the whole point of Ned stark. Right. So with both dont with both John and Danny. There's so much to explore with that idea specifically and part of what when John gets assassinated part of what's happening is that he so busy considering his own moral, compass, and his sense of. Right and wrong that he doesn't realize that he is infuriated, the people, he's supposed to be leading and isn't actually listening to them or paying attention to what they want, which makes him a bad leader right now. If what the show wanted to do was take that guy who fucked up so badly, and then fucked up again. And then fucked up again and show him learning lessons from those things. So that various could say you would be a good leader because I've because we've seen that you've made these mistakes, and learn from them, that would be one thing. But, again, the show isn't actually invested in any of those qualities, it only cares about plot. That and then the plotting isn't even good. Right. Like, maybe that would be okay if their base had been in some other story that's not one hundred percent like where all the dragons in the mysticism and shit. It's all just trappings for the inner workings of minds, and how people battery at each other and how their worst qualities are drawn up some ways, and their best, qualities minimized and all of this stuff, then maybe that would be fine. Maybe this could just be a plot show. But it's never actually been a plot show. It's always been a character show, only they stopped writing characters like five fucking years ago. You know. You know, just it makes me so mad isn't even the right word because I stopped being mad about it years ago to right? Like just there's he can't say that John would be this fair leader because we've never actually seen any evidence of that. It's just that now is the time that we're supposed to believe it. So the show is assuming it's true without any anything toback it up at all. And just like the show is of Suming that Danny is crazy without anything to back it up there, so many reasons to say that Danny's a bad leader. Lots of them, lots and lots of things you can say this is the wrong person to be on the throne. And also, maybe there shouldn't be thrown that would also be an interesting point to discuss, but so many reasons and then they just they, they don't care because at some point, Georgia or Martin said and some meal or something. Well, you know, the tar guarantees you flip a coin and they just decided that was all they needed, and they didn't actually bother to do the work. Yeah. I think it goes back to your. Earlier Kate where I feel like especially with the rushed nature of the season, which, by the way, it should be reiterated. They asked for HBO is going to give them more money for an episode order. But they were like no. We can do it in six. But they use things like the previously on's and the inside the episodes, as a substitute for telling the story and the episode itself, like I found myself like in the previously on for this. Like when you see her her even her mean face or like her. She so infuriated after the end of that last episode you hear all the voice overs from everything else to make her seem more mad than she is. It was very lazy, and yeah, and then all the stuff and the inside the episode where like it's all just d- just describing what you just watched. But would just he'll we were thinking about this, and, like, okay. Well, good for you is very infuriating. Yeah. Well, I think we're just about out of time here. So we should probably do like a quick. Let's just quick one. Time go round the bend something piss you off about this episode that you feel like you wanna say so who wants to go. I just, just one thing, real quick, and then we'll keep going around to were out or until I know thanking so much. Yeah. Okay. Genetics doesn't does it determine who you are. So like it's a fun. It's part of it. But all Lancaster's go crazy. Only ministers not sorry. Sorry, Tarbert, Ian go med. Well, that's because they're raised by crazy people in this very specific area. She was not she's completely different. You know, who's also a tug Irian is John and no one's going. Well, you know, those are Garin about, John, it's a bunch of bullshit, lazy writing, and they don't wanna show their work. That's one who's next tards. I hate that on a kind of in the moment. Loved the clip gain bowl. I fucking hated the gamble. Perhaps. Sorry the most. Well, it just for some reason, I was just I needed something really dumb and fantasy to like get me through what I was watching. I was just like you know what? I'm cool with this whatever else and go ahead that horse was injured. She shouldn't have ridden it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Clue game bull. How do you miss the point so horribly bad? Now is not a character. So I can't care when he's having a battle with the hound. And also the point is not the spectacle, the rue falling off, this major thing, the point is the intimate character relationships over in versus the mountain was more impactful and meaningful than could gain bowl and that shows a fundamental lack of understanding of character narrative, storytelling, and how you pay something off, also, if they wanted to make that the climactic thing in their finale, the penalty position, say they needed to shit on more work setting it up earlier. Okay. Next go ahead. Clinton. Oh, that's pretty much except I guess, the, the weird, you know, Monday morning quarterback in me is kind of upset that, you know, the whole thing with aria being the one person to survive, and you see her like get up. And there's only will see what have for face. And I was half expecting them to turn around and she has like a hound as scar on the other side of her head because they're the same now. I don't know. I'm I'm at once glad and infuriated that they didn't do that. Well, I'm glad. Okay. Let's say what should I, I wanna say next? I just wanna keep talking about how that horse was injured. Why did she ride that horse? Okay. So there's totally a way to make Jamie realizing that what he wants to do. Alternately is diwan his sister, does, there's a way to tell that story and make it compelling. That was never communicated literally until the moment that he walked into that room and saw her. I just didn't know if he was going to kill her or something else entirely. It was literally not until the final moment where it was like. Oh, no, this is really just okay because they didn't care why he was doing it, it was just that they were navigating him to an end that they had decided years ago, and then stopped paying attention, and what a waste of two extraordinary talents those actors are so fucking good. And then they just stood there. What? Garbage couldn't. They have like anything, anything anything and they neither of them. Tried to dig out. Neither of them tried to find another way. Neither of them like decided, maybe they wanted to go out by their own terms or like sim like something, they couldn't one of them couldn't mercy kill the other one, just like anything, literally anything. But Jamie couldn't go. Hey, I met a girl, like like anything, anything, anything would have been. Yeah. Jamie is the king slayer, and you don't pay that off by you either have him be the Queen slightly, because he's, he's understanding that his threat is not actually search his threat is the need the being driven to defend king's landing against someone who's gonna cause destruction. And that then made in the moment realizing he can't actually do it this time that would be fascinating. They don't. Yeah. They, they don't do him going back in the realizing the opposite, that he needs to end sir c that would also have been more interesting. There's a lot of different things ways it could have done that, that could have been much much, much better. Also, if Bryan had just talked him into bed instead of sleeping with him. And he felt like see no one's ever gonna love me. So I have to go back to surgery. That would be more interesting to there's lots of things that could have done that shows, none of them. Also, the reason she rides the horse is so that, you know, she can be riding a pale horse and her name is death. See see what they did there, guys. They're so smart. And then my last one, I'll do right now, 'cause I gotta go to work missing. Literally has one possession in. It's her slave collar really guys bring one personal item one to west rose of everything ever. And that's that's how that just shows. What these right? These see these characters also why is I send those last one? And then I just got going why. Why is devils in the frontlines? He has one usable hand why they're also why are none of them wearing helmets. Also, you know what could have worked really great if he wanted to, to have, Danny snap, like have somebody like one of the civilians freak out and, and kill grey worm, and then she lights everything up that worked. But no, apparently also is like let slaughter some innocence. So won't also when she got mad. Why didn't she just burn the red keep I she's right there on a on a spire because that's just like looking at children, as she burns them alive is just varying character. We Danny everything she's ever done. Bernie all the people in their thatched shooting. All all people also aria. Why do they need to leave the shelter because we're gonna die there in the in? So they need to run onto the streets that they can get mowed down by doth rocky. I mean like, oh my God. It's so stupid. And if the only thing you can do to try to get him emotional for your episode is pretend to kill aria three times what the fuck sorry cash. I really wanted to, to go off even more time. Do you have? Well how about we check in again next week without half an hour of technical facilities. Sure. Yeah, we'll have a whole new crop of things to be mad about. Somebody drinks, we're gonna drinks. I needed the pelicans veep finale after. Thank God it was great right only it was. So good. Okay. Well, thank you. Lovely people for coming out and letting me rant at you. And also, sometimes with you. Where can our listeners find you in your work online? You can find me on Twitter at Clint Worthing, and I also a senior writer at consequence of sound editor in chief of the film and TV website, the school, which you could find the spool dot net. I'm Alison she maker Ican confined me on Twitter at Allison shoe. And I don't know other places, all of the places you can you can read my totally ridiculous weekly game of thrones column, who eight best on this week's game of thrones takeout dot com. This week's answer was no one. It was great. You can hear all of our lovely voices on the spoils, a hall of faces definitely my, my wonderful guests, and then then I'm on rather frequently to talk about our favorite. Not every most, but not all most all anyways listeners. Thank you so much. I would say reach out with your thoughts, but if you are super with this episode unless you've got a compelling like thoughtful reason that you want to engage with me about probably just don't just but if you wanna bitch about it with me at the telephone Twitter, you know, I love that shit. So can I ask closing as a closing note? Can I add my very favorite thing about last night's episode before it, it's that you can sing the name Peter dick Lynch to the theme song over and over again? And it's the best just go. Dinky petered, inkling petered English feeder. Dink ledge Peter Dink Pete it. And it's the best. Feels like the right level, like the right note, to end on the right appropriate respectful approach to, to the show and inappropriate way to celebrate one of the terrific actors on this show. Okay. Thank you also much. I'll back later this week for a game of thrones, mostly free. Televise by buddy. Bye.

Jamie Lancaster Danny Elson shoemaker John Kate Twitter king Amelia Clark Harrington Martin Clint Lancaster Clint Worthington Clint I US Nolde Tyrian NBA Emilia Clarke
806 - The Iron Throne - Instant Take

Game of Thrones The Podcast

20:08 min | 2 years ago

806 - The Iron Throne - Instant Take

"Welcome the game podcast, the officially unofficial podcast for game of thrones on HBO. I'm jim. I'm Erin and we just finished watching the last ever episode game thrones eight oh six. We don't know the title. Thanks. There's gonna leave it this. Yeah. Just seventy three no title for this one call that. It's it's going to be called. It's an ending. It's, it's hashtag fan. Bankruptcy. What did you think of this one? You know, I think if you enjoyed the way, the season's gone, and you really like how everything was foreshadowed and you're digging everything. They're putting down as far as Dana mad gleaned than this is probably a really great capper. And I think if you are in the crowd, that and sees there's a lot of shortcuts and honored moments and things that don't necessarily flow thematically. You're character, then there's not much salvage here. And you know I my barrier for join this episode was if you'll recall announcing this as episode started. I just want this to not be stupidest fucking thing I've ever seen and it wasn't. No. It wasn't stupidest thing I've ever seen. In fact, there's a lot of things I kept thinking, especially the first thirty minutes or so, when they're showing stuff like dark, demon, Danny, with drones wings binder, my all, man, do you remember, like, when I think people have done this to the hobbit and the Star Wars prequels, where Optimus people would cut together. Alternate takes kind of like. Like, you know, this is the fan at it. I think there's gonna be some fucking awesome fodder for fan edits, and these last two seasons. But this felts you know, the double these wrote and directed this, and I felt like there's a lot of places outside of flourish. Here, there were this kind of felt clunky, and I like Jon snow going to Nightwatch is kinda cool, but I don't know what the nights watches. I don't know seems like he's just going to go up north of torment, which is what he really wanted to do, which do, I feel good about gray worms getting grey worm, getting Justice? There's just a whole lot of. Yeah. I mean we got here and this was an end, but we left what I was wanting and hoping for a long time ago. What did you think I mostly enjoyed this? Like I said, I think in the spoiler or cast last week that declared bankruptcy after that. Yeah. It took me a while, but pockets empty, I had to declare bankruptcy and I think it was a good thing that I did. Because. I kind of left all of the baggage of last episode behind came in. Ready for people to just do what they were going to do in response to what Danny did not worry about why she did it or anything like that. It happened. Let's move on. And I think that was the right attitude to come in with now I'm a little curious. Why John was so hesitant but I get it. He's not able man. He's, he's made a vow. So it took a lot to turn him. But he loved the woman to. He says he does. I never saw it. But, but yeah, I like where they left basically every character I like, hey, tried to sort of run the gamut of fan theories on how this thing was gonna end and sort of play every angle, and then fall on one that ultimately. I think felt felt pretty good. I think I'm okay with brand being the king and, and the north. I think the most satisfied thing is the north being independent. That's kind of what I figured either thought Sansa was going to be Queen of the seven kingdoms or that the north would have to remain independent, because she just I knew John was gonna be king. And she didn't seem like she was going to Danny the natural question of that is so the north goes free how long can brand the broken maintain. Like, I think he's that, that brand broken going to be apt moniker because I don't think there's going to be six five three two. If there's two kingdoms shoes swearing fealty to the iron throne at the well, I don't know what it's not what it is. The non iron thrown at the end of this, that I don't know. Although kick open the door for every other kingdom to say, where's cool things like I really liked how, like brand at the small councils, like I'm going to try to find rogue on let you too. The anything that dress of the running the kingdom, that's kind of a cool concept. Like what if he's able to find what he is able to wargin to him. And there's a kind of kind of cool possibilities like that. That I that I liked. I think that small council scenes, one of the better ones like it's kind of like this. It's funny it's there's a couple of things like I said it doesn't feel earn like Braun being on the small council at all. Yeah. It's I'm curious how Tyrian would ever trust a man like that. Yeah. But he did once before. And now that he's back in power. He's returning to his old abbot's. I really like some of the like I said the things are going to be cool. On the remix are like drogue on awaking from is slumbering underneath the pile of rubble thought that was cool. A really stole a page out of Dragonheart the plane, a lot of alma. Okay. The dragon the tech a rock, Scher cameras a rock. Destroying the iron throne I thought was a little hokey, but. With what they were trying to go for and this season. I thought it was like you did the actually backed up theme, the thing that I like about most everybody says all these dragons superintendent, right? And they, they, they, you can't tell it just by looking at them. But they understand quite a bit more than people give them credit for. And that kind of showed me that was true at the end like he sort of understood what Danny was was pushing for all along. And that enabled him, you know, just enough to destroy this thrown. I don't know the whole drug oncoming and being destroying the iron throne in a fit a peak, and then carrying off his mom and his claws like some of that some, some of that I don't know how will that work for me. Okay. But I do like the idea that, you know, like it's funny because the show laughed at the idea of democracy, like which, again, I don't think anyone has been calling for, like one man, one vote, one man, one woman vote democracy and west rose. But the idea that essential. Are going to be like a house awards type of kings situation. I think that's an appropriate. That's I'm gonna I'm gonna call qualified like internet points half internet points for for that prediction. And I thought that was kind of the cool. I liked the unsullied deciding to go to Nath and be like the Nath islands protection force in memory of a sandy. I thought that was cool. I thought Arias what did you think the fate of the three star children? So we already talked about sands being Quinn off. She's on and off. I'm I'm fine. That's, that's cool. I'm perfect sense. I don't know. I'd like to me, like, especially the way everybody was looking at her during the. The kings mood. There's I felt like there's a lot of people like why not us. You know like Braun joy, yon bronze. You've your voice voice Cottam. I'm having a hard time talking tonight as like you know what? Like I think that that's going to be trouble in the future. But I you know, sands of including the north, that's fine. Yeah. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. I'm a little confused by Arias end. Like she, you know, she doesn't want to be a lady. I get that she, she wants to be some kind of fighter but gonna don't know that. Yeah, gonna quest generic adventure did not ever seem to me like her goal. But I guess that's where they're gonna leave her. And I'm voids not angry about it. I guess I wish there was a little bit more nautical yearnings to her. Like I never I saw her. Maybe like a cane from kung FU wandering the land, and like doing small things of Justice, and, like, it'd be cool to see your like as a west Rosie Batman like you don't know town are is in. But if you're the pickpocket, that's in, you know, or God help you try to take advantage of a woman. She's gonna fuck you up, but proper her being like a kind of a sailing. I, I wish there was a little bit more to her uring for that. Because her what seemed like her arc was she wanted to be a knife or something of some kind of fighters kind of soldier of Justice and feels like yeah. You're right. She's just doing. Indiana Jones type of turn. Sure, there was somebody who, who did get to be a night, though. Sir. Padraic serpa. Yeah. On the queen's guard or the king's guard. I really liked brands gold and blue kind of kings guard motif. Okay. I didn't I didn't take note of it. But I'll do that on my second, like bright gold, and like a Royal blue, it seemed like I thought the scene, Brian summing-up, Jamie. And the king's guard the white book was pretty pretty nice. She left out some of the racier bits, some of the juicier things. Sure, she could've set the record straight turned into a burn book. She's like also king slayer. Mediocre in bed reputation largely unearned sure I, I thought that was like her recounting all details of his valour and bravery. And then trying to sum up at the end and emotional beat of died. Protecting his Queen, like that's that's that's tough for her to, to write. And I thought that if you're going to go to this particular, you know, it's so Brynn. Brian sex Jamie for one night, he betrays her breaks, her heart. Then she becomes the king, the Lord commander of the king's guard, and she swore never to see another man and she'll take that seriously. So one role in. Hey, Jamie Lancaster. And yeah, that's it. I feel like that belong in the white book, too. He's a heartbreaker trust ladies. What did you? Okay. We can talk. Okay, the case still staying positive. Can we talk about ghosts and the fuck? You fuckers happy now, seeing because I on that if you want to stay positive and talk about ghost. I'm Calcio to here. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. I think that, that does not make everything better. Okay. 'cause I'm pretty much at the end. Like I quite liked the small council seen how they kind of fade to the bickering of the running of the of the, of the kingdom and kind of given a preview of all that, and it's here and trying to keep things light with a joke about stories of him being in brothels and whatnot. But I okay I don't I alluded this at the top of the podcast, but I really have a problem with John declaring he's gonna take the black and it does seem like he's going to abandon his post, and there is no post, they're like, what I wished to show had said something about, like, well, you're going to be Lord, commanded, tonight's watch which their new their new bulwark is going to be resettling the north Mun and the Wild Wings and the gift and the lands beyond the wall and be like this administration to kind of, like oversee all that. But it's like they didn't. So there's a scene, where John's leading all the wild things north of the wall. Wall. And I kind of made this joke when the door slam shut the John's. All right now, you sons of bitches, the doors shut if I ever catch, you south of this wall, when I'm gonna hang you like why why, why are they all going north wise? Anyone staying here? It seems to me like there isn't a night's watch like there's a night's watch in name, duped. Stupid. Ask grey worm. Who's that feels kinda shitty because the ending very much to me feels like John going home, you know, like he did defect to the, the free folk and now he's living. He's just gonna live out his days with them up there. Right. Also thought this shitty the gray weren't like none of the people that helped, you know, for in any shape or way free west roasts, and the final shape of that look pretty horrific but, like none, the unsullied or Dauth Raqi are going to be integrated. Anyway. There's no one on that small council. Like I thought when they said, there's a massive were vacant gray were would be perfect, that, again, I liked the fact that they went off to Naf, but it does seem kind of bitter that none of the people the sacrifice so many things are going to get to take in any of the rebuilding, and the potential rewards and and prosperity. That might go into that. Yeah. Where did the death Raqi even end up? They just I don't know. It's going to take Danny's campaign of freedom are going to be a real problem in gonna be just marauding around the continent. For decades to come you thought the faith militant was tough to corral. Wait until you see two thousand Raqi screamers is rain, Ryden all over the range yet. It's crazy. I don't think I remember seeing the end. Okay, ghosts. Rooted bitch about ghosts like, yeah. I mean this doesn't make it. Okay. This doesn't make it because John was perfectly willing to not say goodbye. Goes period. It was just sheer dumb luck that reunited them. And I think if they had had him said, a tearful goodbye to ghost when he sent goes north that the reunion would actually even sweeter. So everybody's saying oh, they just they were saving it for the end. It doesn't make any sense for John to save it because he had no idea. He would see ghost again. Yeah, I totally agree the this whole like you can't animate ghost. I just like we can get. I don't know the whole scene of drug on burnin I think about how expensive it was animate him as a pile of rubble and then him burning the iron throne and him doing the light one minute staring back and forth. Johnstone on my God. It just really still pisses me off about this the dire situation. I thought that in this one scene, where Tyrian is in chains. And for some reason is able to be a part of this political process. It's the new fangled kings moot him telling the things about, you know what really motivates people stories got really dangerously meta. And I'm like, oh boy, I don't know if the double DS want to go in this direction after tweak. It didn't feel right? Starting to feel a little self congratulatory. Do you think I don't know that it actually went over there to where people are going? Well, people are going to definitely be lampooning this particular scene. Yeah. It sure that in and probably the one where you know Sam gives the title song of ice and fire to the, the history book. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of theory that was floating around. Yeah. I don't know what I just think they went for something maybe didn't quite understand the last episode was going to land, like a big nasty wed. No, they do. I do I don't think they have any idea of what in is interesting to see what kind of tone the, the, the, the special edition, making of Hina seen celebration. They're going to air this week. What did you think of Jamie, dying and servcies arms beneath the shallow pool of rebel? Was that was a little I holy fuck for me. Yeah, I didn't feel like that's what had happened after last episode. Right. That they had simply been hit with a few bricks. Right. If the entire keep came down on them. But, you know, you don't get a lot of scenes from this episode if the whole keep came down, it just sets weird emotional beat the serve like you know what Tyrians is going to not know, his brother sister got away or not. We need to show him going down like in this long. On long cuts and walking down these tunnels just so you know where he's going and did cr-, alignment of this rubble and seeing the goal and then digging them out so you can see. Oh, yes. They literally were in each other's arms that. I mean, they wrote and directed this thing they wanted us to see that scene that gotten editing bay. And you're like, yeah, that's what we need. And I, I guess it's more. I mean, it's more of a Tyrian moment than sorts, Jamie. And I'm fine with Tyrian moments. I wanna say that is more about Jamie being dead than see being dead. At least I hope so I hope that's the vibe, they're going for. And that's what I'm taking away from it because otherwise what the hell you're person that was, like really on board is dark Queen and bought all the stuff and and was really on board with her being crazy or, and, or that being a militarily sound tactic, the burn king's landing. What did you think about her? Join me on the dark side speech, John snow. Do you think that, that worked for those people? Did it work on any level for you? Yeah. As a weird Danny was like, after this, it does sell more to me, like just a moment craziness, because she doesn't see any danger with John, like she's got no wild. Odd. Now it's so clear to me. John, now that I've been shackled from von shackled from the bondage of morality and ethics. I can see clearly what needs to be done, and, and you'll love me still won't you won't you. I mean where did this Dany come from? No, I mean, the villains in any story, any good store. Anyway, always make a certain amount of sense to a certain number of characters. And I think you know if if. Your grey, worm. If your John and you see this, maybe it doesn't have the same effect on me as viewer where I just go. Okay, Dan, he's evil. And there's absolutely no redeeming her. And this time to kill her. That's my reaction. But clearly, and I think people who, like, maybe gave Danny a little more leeway on there. Her whole burning king's landing thing. Yeah. Maybe they. You know, all those scenes John and said, okay, we'll John loves her. And you know she's trying to do the right thing in the long run. I can see some kind of weird justification but not in my head man. Well, it's funny 'cause like there's a contingent of people trying to argue that what Dana did yesterday or last week was horrible. But like still militarily sound like it was a sound tactical decision to inspire fear, despite the double DS in the you know, many after episodes, special features last week saying, oh, is just a, you know, the military battled been one, she was this was a rash kind of spur the moments kind of frenzy that took over her this episode, I think made it very clear that no, she's just offer rocker. Yeah. Because like this is not the let it be fear, then Dany. This is over that side of psychosis. And now thinking everybody is on board. And so there there's one thing I forgot that I quite liked that. I wanna mention. Was during the king's mood, the whole ad MIR standing up to be like I would like the firm vary mediocre hat to the Reagans of Santa shutting down. Yeah. And then him looking around to all the great lords, and nobody's going to step forbid. No hear him hear him. That's a lot of good call backs. I thought. And that's what you wanna do at the end, you know, you wanna give people you wanted to bring of game of thrones. And I think it did. Yeah. Anything else? You wanna talk about. I don't think so what are audience wants, this is the part where we have to say goodbye to everyone is on a clip number. Because the instant talk podcast is four club members only you can join a club that move dot com, become part of this question, or to enjoy the instant talk part of the podcast without further ado, let's get to live discussion.

John snow Danny Jamie Lancaster Dana Tyrian Jon snow Dany kings Tyrians Erin Nightwatch Optimus Arias Braun sands Scher superintendent west rose
Visions in the Flames 2021 Part 11: ASOIAF TMG Updated Targaryen Tactics Cards and Khal Drogo Commander revealed!

On The Table Gaming

41:53 min | 4 months ago

Visions in the Flames 2021 Part 11: ASOIAF TMG Updated Targaryen Tactics Cards and Khal Drogo Commander revealed!

"Hey it's chase him on the table gaming and welcome back to another episode of the podcast and this week we'll be looking at the vision. The flame article eleven focusing on the house targulian forces as always worth thanks to be joined by game designer michael chanel and special thanks to all of our patriot supporters. Who make this podcast possible. Be sure to head on over the newly formed on the table gaming facebook group. Share your hobby pictures. Talk board games card games and tabletop wargames and generally help us build a positive community. But that being said let's jump on talking about the mighty target enforces as previewed in the twenty twenty one. Update all right. Well michael thank you so much for coming back on and we get to talk about targe arians this week but before we do that. Let's take a look at some of the images that people submitted on the facebook page of their painted neutrals which our topic of last week where there any there that caught your eye. There were two artists specifically who stuff i really liked the threat word Talented wednesday over there are two definitely data me. I will being the flame by grant stacey although fantastic. Yeah the other one. Caught my attention heroes. We had the unit of bloody skirmishes. Here done by darren calvert. He also had a great blogger unit. Did you happen to see the one one by stephen basler. It was a a beautifully painted set of flayed men with an interesting shirt behind. It didn't notice any sure could yes. I did notice the the they are perhaps one of my favorite like aesthetic units in the game so they drew your attention to them. There were so beautiful man. Okay fee lou. Tremblay had a unit of bastards at looked beautiful. A bunch of dogs and some snow on there. So thank you guys so much for submitting and for next week we'll have a challenge for submitting some of your images then as well for the designer developer to take a look at and With that being said let's let's jump in here and start talking about the main focus here being the target so we got a pretty pretty amazing article here. Tournaments look if you really strong. So with house star. Garrisons diversity is kind of one of their strengths. Can you elaborate. On their diversity of the wide range of people they bring together is being addressed and cuts down in this twenty twenty one update when it comes to the The syrians. Like they're you said diversity and that's true and just a number of ways. Because so as i touched upon in the article you have like the great houses of west coast. And despite the fact they're made up of different liege lords different Houses and everything. They kind of function as like their own mini country. but they haven't ideology about the starks. They represent the northerners. So you know even if it's not like you know they don't necessarily follow those the king in the north they. They follow the northern traditions in some capacity numbers car. Starks reads a proper starks. They're all part of the door. Lancaster's are a bit more hajjaj but into the day. Their forces are coming driven by money and the fact that they're like the southerners and everything like that. Dorothy you have the storm. Landers dragon stone. They they all have a culture to when it comes to like house derian generis though is she basically just hodge podge of people that have under her banner for one reason or another. Whether they're from there west rosie loyalists whether there sos like sell swords or just the people that she is free or people who are just you know basically have anywhere else to go. She's kind of attracted all the other the other kind of the lost in the vagrant of the world under her better and so we see in the updated taxes cards that there is a kind of a universal incoming honor and a lot actually seems to do with a movement and maneuvering we kind of how that first cluster that you talk about overrun sudden retreat. Swift position how do you see this kind of playing into the target and identity. Or why is it so important to their troops that they have with. Some ability is a key element of regardless of which Commander choosing in the target area. And that's one of the core. Themes of their fashion exists in areas started with rocky and she's basically amassing this big army to go and set sail across the sea to back to west rose to reclaim her throne. That she thinks she's entitled to say that kind of mobility aspect of you have to nurse who is basically like kind of traveling around the world sort of release pulling attention from around the world that was like where that seema maneuverability and whatnot came with and also heavily influenced by the fact that the majority of early forces are based on the roxie so lots of cavalry but that is one of the core themes to the target is that mobility aspects so almost regardless of which commander you're taking you're going to have some battlefield control kind of shenanigans. That's actually a better way. I think putting it rather than distractibility is more battlefield control via position that makes sense and and she's got some although maybe a danny may not be the most seasoned warrior. She does certainly have many people who are experienced in the ways of battle and in maneuvering themselves on the battlefield. The other tactics that go with that. So we see cars like overrun sudden retreat. Swift reposition so lots of tweaks there and in some cases even replacing older cards out of those three which of those kind of stands out you the most as one of your favorite tactics cards. Well i know that fabio's like favorite card in the entire game is overrun. Which by the way chase. If you've seen him point you just let me know. He's kind of been missing for quite awhile presumed dead but we might have to get a new one but anyway point is overrun momentum swing card. You know you're able to get the assault in destroy unit and then carry that over into another one now this. This is a toned down version from what it was in the at one point six versions. Because as you see it doesn't allow the pitted beforehand. So does require additional setup. But that's again kind of plays with journal toning down of most tactics cards anytime. The buffs daybreak free actions are a bit rare. And you have to do a little more. And that's w so charges because charges by their nature. Already one of those impactful things that can happen entire game absolutely and so we kind of have those three clump together as sort of your movement and maneuver zone dependent cards or they have kickers that might benefit from that. Then we start to get down into some of the really more flavorful ones fury. The dragon for example is gone but now we have field control. You never wanna face a target area in hoard on an open field and they certainly seen to control the field with this card since they actually have some interplay now with nc us right where when an issue claims the maneuvers zone in this case are field control. If the nc was friendly you made a place that zones effect with a friendly combat unit performs one maneuver retreat action. With plus one movement and the enemy it disengages from becomes weekend. However you can play this any. Nc you claims his own attacks not just your own. It can be reactive in that regard as well if the nc was your enemy you now get to force your opponent's replace that zones effect with one friendly combat unit becomes weakened and they may shift three inches. So you actually get to weaken opponent. And then maybe they get as a drawback they can. They can move their unit. You know three inches away or reposition a little bit. What's the thought behind that card. What does that kind of capturing so in this one here. The maneuvers zone is paramount to the core death and this is basically giving you a little advantage here to punish the opponent for taking the zone. That really really matters to you now. One thing here. I can foresee this when that some people probably play this song and the important rule here remember that friendly. It is always referencing like the player with the effect. Because i can see some people go. Oh i get to pick. What am i guy or my guys. And they're gonna get to shift. Can we get know. This is the opponents choosing one of their guys. they're becoming weekends. They're getting to shift so effectively. They're getting still targeted by the maneuvers. And which would usually grant them a free maneuver or retreat a here. It's now much drastically weaker effect on at the week a token right. Yeah so it's the when it's the ncaa opponents playing the turn so they would be the one reading that text on the zone right something that we can. I can see typically some people gang shipped over but member friendly always reference to who the effect is talking about and then we have some really cool ones. With like unstoppable advance. Where now the way that works is it doesn't only ignore dangerous. Hindering the rough keywords but you also destroy any terrain with the destructible keyword that has moved through or ended within one inch of also give a bonus to search fourth if necessary as well so we started to see a lot more interplay with terrain here. Yeah that's actually probably one of my favorite like newer cards. Just because the reasons you mentioned with the interplay whiff terrain because the setting up the battlefield is more and if you have a battlefield kind of control army then that can be a big tamper for you. And especially if cavalry yes. They're maneuverable but the right piece of can really shut them down but here okay. So now you got something to go against. You got your spike walls up or something. And they don't care. Does care unstoppable out of all these ones. We see kind of some change slightly to things like fire and blood so you still get your choices. But now there's three choices to choose from and if you control the maneuver zone you get to choose to instead. You know you can really you. Can you know the extra choices are always appreciated. But now especially with uniroyal any charge distance. Die turn you can basically kind of guarantee you're going to get that charge off like as a sure thing. Well there's never any sure things. But this is another element of kind of the mobility. And again i keep saying it. Over and over the battlefields control elements. So you've got one said help you give you extra legal movement tricks like overrun or sudden. Retrieve wants that help shape the battlefield which consider like swift reposition in that category you got field control and then you have the ones that are going to give you some additional bonuses for charging which is again another form of around and that's what this falls into and then just go into the status cars this this last one here blood of the dragon so starving turn you can target one friendly combat unit attached to them so a cool car attach effect when a friendly unit is destroyed. Place one order token on this card. While this card as a token the attached melee attacks game plus one die and this unit suffers negative one wound from failing hanoch tests. So this is a really cool card in that. It seems like the as you start to lose your troops and your troops are a little bit more pricey in some cases for targeted ads. You can actually have that be benefiting remaining troops and that may be a you know. Now that they're bloodied and ready to for for for for that hunt. They can do additional damage. Yes so look to her of they've developed this reputation as being a very elite faction based on the units that were available at the time of. Well i guess even the time this recording which is true. They do have a lot of expensive options but there are some cheaper options on the horizon. That will be coming out shortly in q one q two this year. Then you know are going to just give them some more options that you have. So as i've said in the article you know you're going to be able to take your league is making even more elite via this card or take some of your weaker kind of shave guys and give them a little bit of a boost because i intact i is a rare effect have and just static just having it around a super nice and the miners went from failing. Penny test is a fairly substantial boost in sustained because since panic is reduced to three. This is effectively. Cutting your wounds here by thirty two percent giving you the capability here also suffering no wounds from failing panicked fantastic so i mean the basic deck here is a pretty amazing obviously right now like thinking in the context of god doth raqi hoard. All this stuff looks fantastic and really fun to play with however as you show in this article it seems the tar guarantee aren't really not just about their base tactics stack of course but the commanders and their influence on the tax that are being used is kind of one of the bigger deals about target aaron right now so their commanders come with four tactics cards instead of the standard three and then it replaces a tactic card in the main deck. Now you showed us called rogo here Before we jump into him and his tactics cards replaces one of the base taxes. Cards with one of his special cards. Does every commander replace a different card or like do they always replace the same target card in the main deck. No they all have a car that they replace specifically there are some that replaced the same guard. But it's not like every single time this is going to replace otherwise it would just be. A filler is reflective of their personalities. So cal drago here you know. He replaces a sudden retreat mainly because of his great cal. Don't retreat tactically. He's busy kill him. Tactical repositioning the other direction. It's just You know and just to give some like. I guess some additional spoilers and going memory but i believe there's since me who favor character in the setting i believe he actually replaces overrun because being the more of a tank slash bunker style. Commander that one is key gets rid of that one. Because it's a little blassie kind of aggressive for his place so he switches that out for one of his personal cards. I'm not gonna. I'm definitely hank aaron. Fm breath on him though man. He's one of my favorite characters. Do a the refocus on commanders. They all have their own unique. Play style and the car that they were places of the card that they replaced was specifically chosen to be reflective of not only their territory but also the tactics game mechanics of the range the table and cows himself. He's a substantial change as well. He's got expert dualist. Now where each time he performs a melee attack. You get to choose either doing additional wound or to target one infantry unit in the defenders unit and roll a dye three plus you destroy attachment. That's fantastic and he's got iron resolve getting a bonus to hispanic tests and suffering less wounds unit. And you've also got your blood of the dragon on him. That's a pretty non schedule unit. Oh yeah it's he can absolutely make his unit just this juggernaut on the battle which is a good because to compensate for that is a low dose raqi units that you would put him in. They don't necessarily have the best like defensive stats out. There could always do something just sticking placement for example you want a really big tank units but then you're going to get some you know cost up there you know. It's still a good option. The thing about cal drago here is that he actually received an unintentional reworking. His kit that he previously had worked really well and it was fine. It's just that because the changes to everything else. He had to be redesigned because he had too much. Overlap with the way we agree designed other units and tactics hearts. This was kind of one of those situations where it's like you know. He wasn't changed because we felt he was overpowered underpowered. Anything like that. He was this changed really came about as a byproduct of other little ripple effect changes. That's something that can have and he's gotta be a great khali. Kansas fbi given out a vulnerable in the charge. Like some some chump screamer. Something he's he's he's gotta be the great one We did push him in the direction of his one of those categories of battlefield commander where he his unit is going to be like one of those stars. The battlefield showcased a lot of these. But that's because a lot of the fan favorite character arc just this type of personality. You know what we have jamie lancaster. One of the barassie guys. I forget which one cal- drago here like. Oh these are. These are effectively battlefield. Rockstars okay there on the battlefield. It's a big deal you know versus like tyrian lancaster. You know if you see him on the battlefield. No one's gonna sit there and go like warrior tyrian landis taken to the battlefield with his acts. No they're going to underestimate him and go like oh. The half man is over there. It's not going to draw the same type of attention that jamie lancaster is. You know taking the vanguard here. Okay we need to be worried and then there was a disclaimer in your article. And i just wanted the opportunity here to apologize. that you You basically ruined The books for some people here by revealing that calderaro go Maybe dead so You know i'm really sorry to fortunately oklahoma and gets some. You're that guy. I see how it is that we walk into the movies. And like oh. Yeah titanic the boat sinks jeep. Thanks nice guys. I really can't believe that can walker is darth. Vader hasn't the christ. You won't believe well anyhow moving so You know we've got this caldo. Character looks awesome. He's got four cards now so ride by attack we see that moving to auto wounds instead of resolving charge attack any thoughts behind why that change occurred a lot of changes on this car here. We're just a streamlined. Things and frankly the full attack action was had the potential to snowball earth than we wanted it to here. While this straight wounds it is toned down much more compared to what it was. Because here you're going to cap out at like four wounds and that's assuming that you're engaged like a full rank infantry unit so you be able to clear off one of the reins and march through them. That's really the kind of the bigger aspect of this car. Is the reposition allowing you to crash into an enemy's frontline and then later pushed through their line. Actually getting their rear in their flex. I'm looking forward to you. Bus went out and your rematch with fabio at some point here with a great column and twenty two twenty twenty one version as i said he's strangely enough and coincidentally gone. He's probably somewhere like training in the mountains. Like a lifting logs and pushing. Trays administers back and forth with a montage. Go in the background. But yeah that's that's that's what's out far beyond the wall. Perhaps so what about assault orders. Here you get to replace an zone with another combat uniforms attack. Action or kaldor gets a charge action. That's kind of his replacement card for the base deck. And so that. What kind of flavor does that bring for him as a character. And how do you see that kind of like solidifying that identity. So one thing i actually do one st and this is something that even myself. I kind of have a mental schism about. Is that the card that is being replaced in the deck. This is just a common thing that it's you look at the car that is is replacing and the card that is being replaced. And you start trying to compare them against each other but that's that's doesn't actually how that works because like the card that's being replaced. It doesn't actually have any difference like you're you're taking these four carts and you're replacing one of these other seven cards and i'll be honest. The reason governor places probably because it had less text on the card than the others. Okay that's good reference though for us to understand so it's not about being like this is his special card is just that he has four cars and this happens to be the one that replaces one in the back and i will admit that is something that even myself like when we were laying out the cards and designing them. We'd like okay. Well like you know. Dragos card is obviously adalat. So that's a win that we used to replace something in the deck. But then you're like there's way too much sex carts actually in line and then you come back like. There's no reason it has to be that card. You're still replacing the cards out. Just this one doesn't like it. It's a purely like a bit of a mental like fluff thing and it's strange. Because i still do it but it was actually fabio. The pointed out of like what is the car that's being switched out matter because we're just taking one card out and putting it for you're right from from every perspective. It doesn't actually matter. Which card has the text of removing car knows or his last words that as fabio confirm or deny that or anything but yeah so a fun fact. They're and. That's that's something that i i see happening a lot. People are like analyzing the commandments. Is they're going to get into like a conversation about like well. Assault orders is replacing sudden retreats. And you'll are those cards like you're losing this one in favor of the other one. It's like that's not actually true. Though you're you're not that's not a one. If that was those are the only cards are being replaced. Then that would be one thing but the fact that this is four commander tactics cards. That's being added to the deck and just one is being taken out and yeah it's it's just. It's a weird mental. Thanks i even now. I'm explaining to you and it still doesn't let them still like that's not true. Yes it is. I mean out of his ri- by attack assault order lead by example which is so cool as well. Assault orders odd. That really that kind of the king of kings car there. That one. I think if i had to pick one it seems like it'd be the most called rogue and you already mentioned him and this card but so this is of just like talking about changing the way we think of the game or maybe a special way you play the game though. When calderaro goes unit activates he gets to pick an enemy and long range and for the round. This card gets task for the entire round when your other doth raqi forces or really any target enforces attack that unit. They gained critical blo. And if they kill it you get a victory point if at the end of the round that car's been removed that he's not been destroyed. Your opponent gains that victory point. So there's like a little bit of a super high risk reward or if you kinda chicken out don't play soccer friendly turn you can discard it and draw at attack discard but wow this really opens up a lot of these scenarios game. Plan that you can you can steal. Some victory. points offer unsuspecting unprepared opponent so yeah. This is an element that you'll actually see in some of the commander tactics cards. It's not true of every commander in Syrians but a lot of them is that one of their cards is going to give you additional methods of generating victory points in exchange for some criteria but if that criteria is not met or the universe that happens your opponent potentially get those points from instead and so here of like hell drago. You have one. He's declared a unit like we're gonna kill those guys and destroy them. You get additional victory if you don't however though and they managed to survive that onslaught until the end of the round then your opponent gets the victory point because basically your tire army just cultural go yell out yellow kill command and then no one was able to sold so you know. Everyone's just now demoralized and like man. That's not good. You gotta always watch for that now you get. You can't let you can't sleep on calderaro you gotta pay attention to where he is. You got a unit get low and within long you gotta you gotta be watching out and again these effects can not every targeting commander has no effect like this but most of them do like giora is the other commander that my mind his car that he has his betrayal and that one is when a when a claims zone you can replace the phones affect with oh chase you sly dog. You almost company giving more spoilers. Valentines days combine. Think of i here. Yes sorry sir friends and we'll have to wait for his full reveal. I guess we'll we'll see so many other hidden traps can be set here. But i think that's a cool card and the fun thing about it is. I think i'm interested to see people's initial reactions. Because i think we're going to be like. Oh it's like overpower or oh it's underpowered. It's gonna be a lot of debate. I think because You know if you know your opponent has discard. You're playing into cal rogo. So now you can start to bait situations where maybe cow go you. Activated unit and cow drago drops it on it and now you can protect that unit with other tactics cards or other things that maybe let you re position out of the way and kind of trick your opponent into giving up a victory point if they play poorly so to be a good cal. Drago commander you gotta really know how to fight and how to make sure that your troops are able to get in position to capitalize on like that. I think that's really really cool. Okay i kind of feel a little bad about like not revealing the whole betrayal tax base. That was that was a tease there. That was a little bit of an unjust teas. And then you go like. Oh it's valentine's day fuel others like this'll tinge in my chest your feelings. I don't i don't like so anyway. I guess i will one the effects there. I'll talk about is based in selma's card because let's talk about character that's actually you know cool right. Ooh yeah i'm sure there's some yards the george burns out fans out there that were just like immediately furiously typing on the keyboard siemian. But i'm not sure that giora fan base is quite as large as some of the other fan bases. So i think will be good for on this one just this okay. So i i. We'll go ahead and give this a on the table exclusively here. A burst insult me. One of his cards legendary boldness. Now as i mentioned before bear soon as you're kind of bunker slashed kind of tankeea commander and so. His card here is started around target berson. Samis unit attached to them until the end of the route again. Another guy who is focusing on himself like he's a legendary figure on the battlefield really cool cleans dragging armor anyway while attached a win the unit passes the panicked all enemies. Range become pants. You're getting listen media buffs man but if his unit is destroyed that round your opponents gaining additional victory points but if he manages to make it to the end of the round and is engaged the new score victory points. Oh man this is a prime card for like you know if you're on an objective and you play this down like burston his legendary boldness. It's going on his unit now. Of course it has to target him and just basically like this is the legendary barest and sell me. Formerly of the king's guard now the cleans guard advisor to the dragon. He's yelling at me bros. Because that's obviously that's that's that's the of yeah and the new one coming out. Now you're gonna go after if he wants and if he does he's worth extra victory points but if he fails to destroy him and then the round happens embarrassed and is engaged. Then you get the extra victory. Point is also has the inverse effect where it might cause opponents to want to get away from you. Because they're like oh man. I can't take his unit down because he's bunkered up at a Leader something let me retreat out of combat here to steal away. That like gloria that he has you know so he doesn't get rallying affect on his troops and get that extra victory glassman adds a whole new dimension to the game at two things you want to watch out for so you had to play the scenario the gonna play the target and commander because each one of these guys comes in with like their own. Little quirk you gotta be ready for as really gonna make a fascinating too in like two l'est formats and how you build and pair certain commanders and maybe you do want like a cow drago and embarrassed in going together as your forces over maybe a giora or even maybe a denarius targeted and because they might like synergy is better with your your kind of flex option here when you get on the table. Format is definitely going to be interesting with us targeting specifically given the diversity that they have access to man that's fantastic. Let's talk about some of these cooler units that we've got here then too so you made some well. Maybe we'll start off. A screamers will work our way up in order of seniority. I guess we'll go. We'll get ourselves these veterans at the end here so starting distract screamers so we see some baseline changes them so now they have a furious charge so enemies successfully charged by this unit become vulnerable we also see an increase in their morale. These guys are great. And i think you know they're still pretty pretty good unit for a a six point unit here and It looks like you're going to be a lot of synergies with attack discards. I can already see myself kind of burning through a lot of cards from colorado or the base tiger intact tactics kind of up there dams or keep them being really potent. Your starter set is kind of your bread and butter unit that you're gonna be having in your force if you're starting out especially so you added a furious charge here and these guys already have a three plus hit what was kind of the thought behind that so when you look at these guys in the new twenty twenty one kind of i don't wanna say meta because it has even come out yet but being six points. They already have their calorie. So they're gang the extra maneuverability based on that. And they're also very fast cavalry at six speed. In addition they've got a very impressive morale of five plus their defenses. They're weak point at a only a five plus if you look at what they have for six points. You're bringing a three plus two hit which does carry a lot of weight especially moving into twenty one. You have a very fast speed here of being companies from cavalry and this the national speed six and then you have the ability to really hit hard in the charge given vulnerable now voter will just gonna make the damage deal more almost a predictable more consistent because you're still capping out at seven dice here at full with re roles for the chargers on three plus you're probably led a lot of hits but other than that they don't have any special keywords or anything going with them and so you know you're basically just relying on your bonuses or rear bonuses relying on the positioning come through. But he's guys will still kind of suffer against some of the more. Let's tougher units like your lancaster guardsmen or really anything rocking out at three plus defense even hitting them in the flanks. Your actual damages going to be a little bit a little bit low because of the lack of keywords unless you throws attachments ipad him so furious is going to let you use that speed to your advantage now with the the rocky here specifically they don't wanna get bogged down in combat. That's where they're gonna search suffering unless you build around that via some of their attachment options such as the screamer co gives you marshal training which allows you to basically consistently keep putting down vulnerable for those prolonged engagement. So being able to synergies out your unit here okay. I'm up against a grind. The army rathi hitting them hard. I don't really have to worry about hitting them first. 'cause i know him that already fashion them. Let's start getting stuck in combat now. I've got to start planning around that. This be those options there and also at six points we got the death raqi outriders and they've seen significant changes as well i off talking about the stat changes so now. They're outright or bow can not only shoot at short range. But if they don't perform the maneuver they can shoot long reigns now. It can kind of see them kind of perform a more versatile role at the cost of losing nimble rights. They're of up there on the flanks much harassing although they certainly could be they can kind of reach out and touch their opponents at a greater range. Now they've also gained a melee attack with their outriders blade. They've got a little bit more arm a little bit more morale. What was thought between giving them a long range attack. While so as you can see these guys are the flip side of the coin. The screamers screamers wanna get into malay. They wanna know that's where they're happiest. Outriders want to avoid that really at all costs kind of makes sense that you gave vulnerable now to the screamers right. Because that's like they're really. They're specialized into that now. Yeah they're going to shake up. The opponent screamers they it's a bunch of doth rocky bloodthirsty horse lords charging you. You're going to be a little vulnerable from the outriders. Here can kind of hanging back. A plinking and softening up your targets for the rest of your units. And also they're good objective campers because yes they're cavalry the only of two ranks but they can get those like you know. Those flank objectives are the ones that no one else really paying attention to and still have a long range because you can switch their bows onto long range which is usually a place that yo- objective camping is not something you want your cavalry to be doing. Usually because you're wasting the mobility that you're getting cavalry but here the outriders. It's not so bad because okay. You're basically trading your ability to be cavalry to turn into long-range archers. Yeah the other thing. I was wondering about this. And i don't know you can speak to this but on the old card for the The one point five addition Nimble you had the short bow. There's not a lot of room left on that card. And now you have that the the range icon moved over there. And i think we might see this a little bit more clearly with the Veteran did you ever that in changing the design of cards that sometimes that your ability to design units are those everett all linked. Well it was actually initially a design thing that we did way back in the game was that we wanted so that units only ever had a maximum of three abilities and that was not necessarily a hard rule but that was one of those ninety nine percent times. This is the rule that needs to be followed. They're the exceptions. The reason being is because it gave us a limitation that he never wanted to have a unit that you just dumped a bunch of specials on. Because i do feel that. That's kind of one of those on. Trappings that comes from design. Development is like you have a bunch of cool ideas for unit and the newest piled on piled on it eventually. Just gonna blow up units. I've i've made skirmish games in the past. Where like that's the place for that where you have a character that might have like five to ten different special rules and everything but for units in this type of wargame everything that was not the type of game we want this to be so that the space was actually a purposely built in design limitation. Now that did kind of come back to buy this event when with the having the long and short range like markers over there is effectively that eight up one of those ability slots jain air quotes. That might just be taken up by the fact that you have to declare a range for the for for ranged attacks. So let's say you wanted to have arranged guy who had three abilities are overly cool. Well you need to be able to mark somewhere on there. That's long or short range. We don't then okay. Now that have to abilities or is ranges needs to have the ability so yes in that shift moving the icon over. We did gain some space there to technically put more abilities on there but that doesn't necessarily mean we should or going to it. Just the option is they're fantastic. And i think moving on now not to the veterans. I'm saving those for last. Those are kinda the all-star unit to me right now but let's talk about these doth rocky her cars now. You can only have two of these in your army and you kind of reveal these. at times. They had been teased before. But now we see them in all their glory here and You had once referred to them as guided missiles. Tell me a little bit more about this unit that still pretty much their role This is one of the things we showed this. Jeez i think we just the original semen expo in may of two thousand one so i wanna say that's when we did it. I know it was back when back when the world was still much more In person than it is now. But i it just man. It's back of last year. That's that's how much things were affected by. The world state was that these guys didn't even get to see their full release before they got updated for the twenty twenty one cents a because of like yoga and all those things there. But let's talk about that. Let's talk about what we have here. So this is one of your cheap options that you have here for careers in general. Any of these guys are basically just a guided cruise. Missile you can. You've got two ways of deploying them you can stick them normally as you would if you want a cheap five on unit gets an extra activation and deal some pretty significant damage with very little sustained though or you can use outflank Which again is putting more importance on maneuvers zone and allowing these guys to come in and hit something from the flanks and that is just a devastating hit. Because you're gonna hit him with vicious six is hitting on three plus and then of course the flink which will be minus one to their defense but then a further mine is went out tests so that this is going to instead turn into a minus. Three in this is ignoring the fact that like okay so you crashed into the side of the unit. They're probably gonna be in prime position to get your other effects off such as like overrun any of those. So this this unit can put a lot of work. Yeah they look terrifying and this is gonna be one that i'm excited to see on the table limited to two so. Is this going to be like a standard kind of war machines or you buy it and there's like two in a box. Oh fantastic okay. So it's a it's a super that's like one of your like must buys then right because you you buy one box you got your max cap and you can start building lists around it. That's that's fantastic. Lots i know like who are mostly excited for the cars. But i think the veterans to me. I'm just like wow so. These are now eight points a down from ten. They've got a little bit more. They lost a bit of armor and a little bit of dice on their malay but swift. Retreat is on them natively and they've got this order. Quickfire these guys are are beasts. These are true like you know this is. What a veteran does it looks like. Now these guys that are scary nightmares units. What's going on here. Why why all these we spoke about this in previous just generic visions articles. But you start getting units into the nine ten point category. They really really have to start putting it a lot of work in order to justify being basically to activation worth of of your army totals and that's before even factoring attachments like pinpoint point. The odds of me putting any form of attachment in there is just gonna be almost zero. Unless it's like a commander something let's say you put you put two point attachment into a ten point unit. That's twelve points that means something has to put in the work of two six units. Oh that unit has to be just a from a balanced perspective it has to do so much to counteract that that that's just it's it's not going to be balanced or at least if it is it's going to present a lot of problems so a lot of the things that were in that kind of point category have been toned down. They're not entirely gone. But they are much rarer to see anything in that in that area. Eight points is kind of. That's already on the higher end of what you'll see and so in general here you know. The the veterans received will toned down just like everything else was with the twenty twenty one updates. So you know. The dice kept taken down there. Straight up damage. Potential got reduced down in bed because before they had charging volley where they could make a range attack in charge in. You'll see more that's became much more limited and their role kind of changed around this. We're now they're much more of a kind of jack of all trades can adapt to whatever battlefield position. They need to type unit where they've got built in swift retreat wings. Don't burn that card from your tactics to for these ask us. They've got quickfire. So you've got all kinds of synergies with their actual maneuver here. So you don just naturally looking in you got two combinations of cavalry and swift retreats. Their boat doesn't have any special keywords or anything but given the just extreme maneuverability of these guys have you're gonna hit some in the flakes so you already factoring in the minus one to a defense in morale right there but so here you know this is a points. It's a very large investments in your arm. Even then you're talking about these guys have to put out the same work as a her car unit in a four point in to you senior. They need to be scary. They need to you get work done. And you know that that's basically where we're sitting at now. Imagine if you were looking at nine or ten point units that situation as moore's aspirated because of what you're dealing. Yeah also. These guys are now of great bunker for cultural. Yes i was just going to get to that. And that's so great to right because that fits and these guys have it all. These guys are skillful fighters and you can see that in the abilities. They have like these are people that have seen some stuff. They know how to fight. And that doesn't make them like incredibly tough per se like they only got five plus armor but they can maneuver on and they can. They can bring the hurt. I just think that captures that. That veteran abilities the veteran identity so well These are like incredibly beastly so You know big fan of how this units looking. I'm excited try. This went out on the table and that brings us through all the units the tactics cards. You know this is just kind of a priego. You see in the starbucks starbucks plus the three hogar but this stuff looks fantastic. Really interesting opening up target play. And i think what's cool now if you are a target player and if you're listening to this episode and you're kind of creating with trepidation for what's to come. You got a preview here. But that means things like the heroes box your other commanders. There's going to be a lot of other surprises coming down the line and a lot of other ways to play the faction. Even just hearing you talk about that barest and sell me a spoiler. You know that's a whole nother way of playing at so thematic some fun and so you might love the the play style of targe aaron's and in that are in that this faction there are like different sub styles of play different ways you can maximize units to get like a very different feel on the table itself and i think that's a really compelling. Yeah i feel that you know again. There's going to be a character for everyone in the In the target most other factions. You know they usually attract a certain type of mentality based on the factions. But i do target area and said you can. Everyone's gonna be able to find someone in there that they're like a man that character. I don't care about any of the others. The they're really cool so we're going to wrap things up here. Thank you so for tuning in and tune in next week as we continue to explore the vision of flames. And who knows what might be on the horizon. Michael right i know you know and you know chase you know nothing all right all right right and hopefully maybe maybe five will find his way back to us. Bobi look at everyone sees him hashtag fabio. We missed a man and thanks for listening and on the facebook page where we post this. Be sure to drop your painted units of your garin miniatures. So we can comment on modern next episode. And the meantime we'll because your ministers on the table not.

cal drago fabio jamie lancaster starks michael chanel targe arians grant stacey darren calvert stephen basler hajjaj derian generis west rosie giora hanoch rogo drago nc
Game of Thrones Re-Watch | Season 7, Ep #4: The Spoils of War

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00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones Re-Watch | Season 7, Ep #4: The Spoils of War

"Winter was here. And we're just getting started on a rewatch of game of thrones season seven episode number four the spoils of war. And now here the two guys who are ready to talk about a big cliffhanger in this week's game of thrones. I'm rob sister. Who was Josh Wigley? Josh our yo cliffhanger some issues with swimming. It's all happening again. Come on Jamie, come on seven gods. No Dornoch snakes to deal with here today. Spoils of war, perhaps the apex of game of thrones season seven probably the I would say the best episode of the season. I think that that tracks. There's there's exciting stuff still to come for. Sure. But I think as a as a single episode this has the most impressive sequence of season seven, and I think even a lot of the stuff that leads up to the loot train battle. I think is is high quality lots of fun character moments. That are going to be here along the way. So yeah, I'm a fan. I like this. This is great really fun to revisit the spoils of war that last you know, ten or twelve minutes of this episode. I feel like watching them back today. I enjoyed it. I think more so than any other battle that we've watched throughout. How can you are late? Why is it just like a sensing a gut thing? I just there's so many people involved there where you know, it takes so many different turns where sort of that we don't know that the death Raqi are coming in. They have we're seeing the death Raqi and west arose for the first time, then we're seeing the drag incoming, and there's this is really cool element of the fire everywhere. This fiery inferno that people are fighting through and you have Jamie and Braun on one side. And you're obviously worried about them. And then you have didn't there's flying on drogue on then teary, and is is in there. So there's like a lot of a motion stakes. It looks really cool to have the death Raqi fighting Lancaster's. There's the drag in the mix. So I think a ton there. Yeah. No co sign on of that. It's. It's amazing. It's it's really mesmerizing. And I think there's a lot of a lot to critique with what's coming later with beyond the wall, and sort of like, the the long raven ride and calculating all of that stuff that really gets in the way, there's really no such hangups with this episode. It's really kind of it feels like technically flawless even got a New York met in there. So I'm sure that makes you extra happy. I think he the characters probably deceased would be my bet. But yeah, I mean, I think that this is to my mind. This is one of the first if not the first moment where you have a huge battle happening and on both sides of the battlefield you have characters who are fighting each other. And you love those people, and you don't want any of them to get hurt. You see like Ron trying to shoot generis down from the sky with a crossbow, and you don't want that to happen. But you really like Braun and Jamie is going to be riding towards a dragon, and he's going to be trying to kill generis. You don't want him to succeed in killing. But you don't want him getting roasted alive by fire either. And the Tyrian piece of it all is spectacular. Because he's us in that moment where you see him throughout the battle just like watching it all unfold and being like, no, he's intro known Jamie's trouble. And that's how you feel about the whole thing. And there has. Isn't really been anything quite that visceral as as a tug of war for your heart in battle mode on game of thrones beyond this battle. It's really something to behold on the rewatch a great episode to talk about here today. Lots to talk about in the world of game of thrones here in the first week of March twenty nineteen Josh HBO dropped a mega trailer for the final season of game of thrones. I know that you already published a piece on the Hollywood reporter T H R dot com about your big takeaways from the game of thrones pharmacies and trailer. Yeah. I don't know part of the was was really surprised that this trailer even happened. I think that there was an argument to be made that HBO didn't have to do much people know that the game of thrones is about to end they are incentivized to tune in for those six episodes. They really. Need a trailer. They're going to watch the final season. Anyway, I think game of thrones really all that needed to happen was released some teasers that tell you the date and get some butts and seats, and that's going to be it. Instead HBO goes the traditional route and drops a huge enormous trailer. And it's some of it is just a lot of teasers. Just like light images that are meant to tantalize. There's there's some stuff in there that is fairly revealing. I thought so I was surprised by the extent of what they showed in trailer. If you haven't seen it yet. And like you really can't hold out go for it. Absolutely. But if you really trying to stay away completely pure before the final season, I do think that there's some stuff in there that you can really start putting some pieces to get you wanna read Joshua's takeaways head on over to HR dot com slash game of thrones for any one takeaway and particularly wanna highlight. I have a hot theory is a new one that I hadn't really thought about until there's you see some dragons flying. You see them like flying north the wall at one point in the trailer. Looks like that's probably where where they are. Unless like winter has really hit west roast, very very hard at that point. And either way like it got me thinking, what are the odds that we see like, Jon snow and deniro's fly the dragons north of the wall. And while the take advantage of the fact that they are at this disadvantage where the white walkers are in the seven realms right now take advantage of the fact that they've left the base unguarded. What if John snow into Nara star Garin infiltrate the white Walker base? So that's a new new thing that I'm putting on my bingo card if things that I think we'll see in the final season, we're gonna we're gonna go to the white Walker kingdom, and we're gonna we're going to raid the house we're going to we're going to eat. They're star where then if they the white Walker hide out, then they'll die. Yeah. If they like if they pull the cork out from the center of the kingdom than the whole thing collapses. That's a great. That would be. They can everybody. Okay. They are dead. The whole time. Let's talk about the spoils of war. And this episode really's book ends we opened up with Jamie and Bron we're going to close with the big battle, and they are bringing home all the loop the lute from high garden at the is on fire. Not quite yet. And Jamie is very sullen a very sullen. Jamie, Lancaster, who is in a bit of a mood and Ron with his first spoken words of season seven is like why are you so mad? Why are you? So mad g Lancaster. You just got the biggest prize in the world. And you look like you've got a little prick to the balls is what he says. And Jamie doesn't wanna talk about it. Yeah. And Braun that he's been paid out. He's got a couple of bags full of gold for now. And he's like, hey, you promised me a castle. What about that castle? How about high garden? Yeah. Give me. The confidence of Bron if the blackwater, you know, he's just he's so good at like job negotiations. He knows his worth he's not afraid to ask for the for literally a castle. This isn't a mate. Like, can you imagine just having that bravado league? We'd be unstoppable, if we could just take that same confidence channel and bring into the real world known could touch us man sort of Jamie, its upkeep Tabah castle yet. But I figure if you've got all the gold like you'll be able to hire like an amazing staff, and then you could fill a reality show, and you could even profit further you'd have off your best friends in the castle everyone's working for you. And all those people are really sweet and chill. Do a really good job. And like make them feel like family, the whole situation would just be delight. And so the string Bron along a little bit more where James says look once this whole thing is through castle you want and bronze. Oh, yeah. I'm sure it's going to be nice and peaceful under the reign of, sir. See land. Stare. I know even Braun isn't buying research, Jamie. You are literally the only person. Insurgency ruling is a good idea. Wake up. We see the tar lease Carly's have a lot to do here. In this episode Randall and dick gone Braun is going to get the scoff at dick name that is stone cold classic moment. When dick on reveals his name and Bron just you can't even emulate the laughter that he delivers there. But it is so funny. It's just it's a tremendous moment. Okay. So they're working on getting everybody back to king's landing. We'll come back and see everybody here later on this episode. Yeah. Okay. So they go to king's landing and important detail. Even though the Lancasters are going to get their butts kicked by the tar garrisons at the end of the episode. They have successfully ferried the money to king's landing at that point. So we're going to king's landing sees with Tyco, and they are they're thrilled that they've got off this money in place. Yeah. Iron Bank is like nobody's ever. Just paid us off in one lump sum before. This is not that fun. It's less entertaining than being able to just like, I don't know toying with your food. I guess yeah. We wanted to keep the interest payments going. We like that. The iron Bank. That's how we stay in business. Well, enjoy that moolah. You know? Yeah. Beggars can't be choosers Tyco. You should be lucky that you're here down Asli. Okay. And they're talking about. Well, maybe how do we stay in business? We want to be in the Lancaster business. I think that this is good. He says I think riffing on what we had said last week. He's like he probably already figures like two narrows is going to be scary if she wins, but on top of that services delivered. She said like stay here for two weeks, and you're going to get all your money back. And he's like, okay. That's seems unlikely and it it worked. He's got all his money back. So he wants more of that. Great. Well, sir, c has had her I on some things from the golden company catalog. Josh what does she want? What is she thinking about? Maybe another army of soldiers of people that are going to be mercenaries that could come fight for her move should a little more of an extension at line of credit. Maybe. Yeah. And if we're dipping into the season eight trailer that drop today, rob looks like her wishes going. Be granted. Okay. Get a little bit of a tease of the golden company in this trailer. All right. We get a lot of brand and the star kids in this episode little finger comes to bran and wants to give brand the dagger this dagger that's going to figure very prominently and everything going on here at the end of season seven and heels brand I want you to have this dagger brands like Whoo. I need this for. Yeah. The Gare stuff one of the people that tried to kill you that this dagger made you who you are today. Yeah. You should be excited about this. You put this on your mantle. What is little fingers and game here with brand? I think that little finger is trying to ingratiate himself within the stark family. His his long game plan is to be not just the ruler of the seven kingdoms and sit on the iron throne. He wants to sit on the iron throne with Santa at his side, which would make him essentially a stark. That's what he wants. He wants to take over how stark and reshape its future in his own. Sick whispered perverted way, that's like getting back at Ned stark in neds older brother all these people who wrong him when he was a kid. It's his way of giving Catlin tallies legacy something that he feels she deserves. So I think for for him to be here with brand like he's having an authentic moment. Like, he's lying and stuff. But I think that even even within that I think that little finger. Authentic in his desire to cultivate, relationship with brand in so far as it would ingratiate him further with Santa, and it would connect him deeper to house stark he wants to be in control of these people and little does he know that brand is a super powerful magic man now. And so this banking on that. Yeah. On the reconsideration of the little finger arc. I do think that there are some Justice to the idea that like you couldn't account for magic, buddy. That just wasn't something that you ever put in your calculation. So of course, Magic's going to be the alternate home wrecker for you. Right. I think that he's trying to say like, hey, I was friends with your parents. So, you know, in some way, you know, some small part of them is still a year round because they were my friends, and I told them about how this dagger that they tried to somebody tried these kill you. I two Lancasters on this. So. I've been a longtime ally of the Starks here if you remember all the way back to the first season. And so he's a trying I think to play that card. But then yeah, it all goes to Helena Handbasket once a brand reminds him that. Yes, chaos is a ladder after a little finger mentions. The word chaos about how you you. You had to go out and see such chaos in the world. What what that's my catchphrase cats. The I know everything. Okay. Alarming l'armee at that point. You know, what I think like little finger like kind of you know, he really loses the thread here from from here on out. Like, I think that what he's doing. So far seems to be tracking along with where he has been laying everything all of his plans if been leading to these moments he's getting closer and closer to his quest for the iron throne. He runs into like this thing that he couldn't account for this. This ability to see all to know everything. And I think that's what really starts to do him. In is he's probably very unsettled with this brand thing, and he's certainly going to see REO later in the episode. Oh, she's not to be underestimated. And so he's going to start to make these other moves because he's just completely off his game now branches. Like totally threw him off brand is on fire. He's got little fingers shook next up. Here comes mirror read. Yeah. Let's. Shoot her right out of sky while we're at it. Yeah. A mirror in close the door have a seat. Yeah. She's leaving. Oh, you're leaving. Well. Didn't want to. But I guess since you're okay, you're safe. You need me anymore. Brands like, yeah. I. What? Hold on. That's it. Yeah. My brother died to save you almost died or died. Yeah. Well, so what you know. You know, I was thinking of how I was going to be able to let you go without having to pay severance, but you just quit. So that solves the problem for me. Right. And so brand I'm not I'm not really him anymore. So I'm not brand. I remember what felt like the brand but not so much now. And so it's like, well, I guess he did die in that cave. Yeah. He really he's like RoboCop. Alex Murphy like getting like torn thebenz and coming back as this monster with only bits and pieces of his memory. And that's like brand like robo brand. Yeah. Is this see Mira so far? I mean, I don't know how much room there is in the final frailer. Right. She's not there that I saw I didn't see an unceremonious departure for four seasons of MIR read. You know, there's definitely there's some hope for her to return. I. Try and but a cushion underneath. Yeah. That's probably how you feel about it. And how many people probably feel about it? But you know, there's still some people who are holding out for Hal in read to be a more meaningful capacity on the show. But I think in the in the context of the book where he has not shown up, and he seems to be one of the people that would know that Jon snow is actually the son of Liana stark and not the son of Ned stark Howland would be one of the people who has that information. The show has answered that by having both brand and Sam being the carriers of that information. There's really no reason to bring Howland read into it and less it's like a bit of fancy service. So feel like I feel like how in read is going to go the way of Tom Bomba Dylan just never make it into the adaptation, and I expect that probably means we're never going to see Meera read again. Yeah. That's fine. Right. There's so many so many Lucent's Lucent's up the lack going on the show. You know, I'll be I'll be happy to see what George has in store for her and the rest of the reads in the book if we ever get there. But for the show, we gotta move on enough time on the show. We gotta move on. And what we have to move onto is aria is coming home to winter fell. Yes. And nice little full circle moment here to calling back to season one. When aria was chasing after the cat. And then she tried to get back into the tower of the hand and the guards like, yeah, you're not Ari historic. You dirty kid go back to like a Mario stark? And it's the same stuff that's happening here all over again. Yeah. So aria wants to come in. And the guys like, Nope. Sorry. You're not Arias stark get out of here. Get out of here already starts dead. Yeah. She's like speak again. Like again, it's. I'm here ending. Play Selva like, no maserpass. Oh here. I'm sorry. Your new phone who diss Lewin, and whatever. Phrasing. He's gone to. They're both. She knew are gone and only Maistre is Walkin if you if you know, John Royce, but he's here to. And if you don't know him, you're lucky. What a nag asked him about the leather breastplates, right? It's called were busy get out of here. And Arias like, look, maybe I'm not who I say am if I'm not or if I am I say, then my sister's gonna be really mad at you guys. And they're like never thought about it that way point. You sit right here. We'll be right back. And of course, she's gone. She's gone. Yeah. She doesn't she doesn't wait for anybody. So Santa's going to get the heads up that this is going on these two dummies filler in there. They're not fired. But it's not a great luck. They don't know where she went. But Santa Santa guesses correctly. She knows that that Arias going to go and pay her respects to to mom and dad in the crypt. She's headed into the crypts. And so we get a reunion down the basement with aria and Sansa little less huggy than the other stark reunions, thus far. Yes. Well, I think that this is probably because that we are going to at least like lean into the aria in Santa feud here for these next couple episodes, no frosty this reception interest coming it's cold in the crypts of winter fell Arias here. And there's a little bit of awkward banter here about the the lady stark of it all or you don't have to call your lady stark. It's like, Yup. Definitely do for your. Yeah. Absolutely. That's who I am now. And Santa's like when John sees you. He's going to be so happy. He's so happy when he saw me just gonna explode when he sees you because it is it's easy to forget that John aria were super tight. They were among the tightest of the stark siblings back in the day. They haven't seen each other since the second episode of the show they still haven't seen each other through through the end of this season. So that's gonna be her. Needle right moment. Yeah. It's gonna be fun. I can't wait for that. That's going to be an amazing reunion. Yeah. Although Santa says that when he sees his heart is going to stop, and that's ominous and we sent Mela Sandro away. So it's gonna be a problem. So when John shows up go to your room. Yeah. Because that's. Really figure speech, right? Stop. When you see that person is hard, actually stopped. Yeah. Yeah. On the nose. Okay. And they're looking at Ned started. Like, it doesn't look like him. No, not really apparently everybody who knew what Ned stark looked like they're all dead except for the start kid. Yeah. No. So we get into our list a little bit about, hey, did you kill Joffrey every beat me to it? I was gonna list. What does this list? You have a list of people you're gonna kill. Psycho. There's a lot going on, you know, been through a lot. So they talk about that too bad. You get here as long story since like. Yeah. Mine too. It was terrible Naria says. Yeah. Mine was also. But there's more to do. Kinda yada yada. My story is not so hot you there. So we'll talk about later. Yeah. They'll tear into it in greater detail a little while from now in another episode, but for now, they're happy to just kind of let lie, and this is not even the the final stark sibling reunion. Right. Santa's going to let are you know brands here. He's just he's been a he's been a real hoot since he's been he's just like, he's cutting people left and right. He's really remorseless these days. So we go see brand he's at the. We would tree right. We're Sansa left him. And he looks at is like what's up? Yeah. A minute. And so he's got some cryptic talk. He saw her at the crossroads. Bump muscle, you at the crossroads. And miss mound. Bench. Instantly a personal favorite joke on that? The Lord of bone thugs harmony. We still got it man still quick and reviving real hard. If that guy who is going to quit over the sex scene. Descriptions already left. He's really basic. I called him a trio. Anyway, we'll add up. All right. So there's about where brand saw Arias going to go to king's landing, sir. Sees on her list of names. But Arias as you know. Most of the people in her list or debt. So she's really got a, you know, it's it's like a treat to still have a name on the list. Yeah. Yeah. Not a lot of work with still she's very curious about the fact that apparently little fingers. Here's lou. He's kind of like he's sort of like on the right on the line. She did see him at hair and hall palling around with Thai win. So she's got to be suspicious at least, right? And the dagger talk. Brand says this is Dan under that little finger gave me. Yeah. Yeah. And we why did you give that to you? I don't want it. Here. You take it. Sorry takes the dragon glass deck or I guess, it's Valerian steel leering steel dagger. Yes. The cat's paw dagger. Yeah. Yeah. She's got to rename that. Yes. And well ours like sure you to want it. I mean, he gave it to you. It's yours feel weird taking your he's like, well, it's wasted on a cripple. Oh, don't be so self deprecating. And you've got a lot going on for you, buddy. But are gonna take this. And this is exciting. It's not only going to be the weapon that kills little finger. But you have to imagine that she's going to at least take down white Walker with that thing. I feel like you can't give you can't put that Naria Starks hand and not have her kill white Walker right in close combat. We'll see what comes up in season eight. All right. So. All stocks come back padraic and bring in our looking over and Padres like brand you did it all the star kids are back home winner. Phil you did it brands like I literally did nothing you're being too hard on yourself free. And you did something you were all those seasons out there looking for them more than she did in the books for sure. She did save Sanso. She found aria once. So that's all a lot better than she does feast for crows, I'll tell you that. Okay. So close she does go to ripper run for Sansa. Also runs an errand. I think she's being too hard on herself. I think that she's she's done. Well, does she a plus, no? It's it's certainly it's a pass rate. And I think it's a fairly high marks. And you know, she killed the hound. Basically almost not quite not quite not quite. Okay. All right. So let's go to dragon stone, Danny and misunder are going to you know. No word back about the unsullied. Yeah. They don't know. What's going on yet narrow little little nervous about that? But I think that they're not like super freaked out it seems. Yeah. And Danny says don't worry great where it's going to be fine. And they have a little bit of girl talk. Yeah. They talk like. Danny can tell Massana is like really into grey worm at this point. She wants to know what happened between Masan grey, worm and Masan day herself note yada, yada through it. She says many things, and that's it not want to kiss Intel Masan day. So let's just leave it there. She's ruining it for us. Crazy. Yeah. Okay. The Jon snow wants to have a word with with Danny about like show, you what we're doing in here. This can before we started this construction project walk through this. Yeah. As he's just like heavily chocked the cave himself. Is quickly drawn a whole comic strip and there. He's chalk on his pants, quiet. Trunk or your pets? Nothing. No reason. Right. Okay. So here's a cave dragon glass as you see over here. Come in through through this crevasse. We got some more stuff to show you in here. Yes. There's these 'lustration that show the first men in the children of the forest they were here together. They were teaming up together. They knew that they had to fight against the white walkers or they were all going to die. And that's what we gotta do. Danny. We got a team up the day is coming. The enemy is real. It's always been real. Safe to be in here. I don't wanna get like dragging glass long being in this mine. She's a tart Garin find so see final to five I had completely forgotten about the cave drawings. But that didn't do anything for me. What did you expect it to do? I just I don't really remember it, you know, that the first man and the children of the forest got together on dragon stone to the city and land to from my recollection didn't the children the forest create the white walkers to kill the first man did they screwed up. And they're like, oh, we screwed up. We went too far. We created these weapons that are out of our hands. Now, we're all in big trouble. And you know, mea culpa and we've got to figure this out. And let's go to dragon stone. Let's get the dragon glass will draw pictures about everything that's going on. And it was only designs and then like, very detailed pictures of the white walkers. Do you think that we will see in the game of thrones prequel if it moves forward beyond the pilot stage? Do you think that we will see eventually because we know it set thousands of years? Before all of this. It seems like it's going to be built around the first white Walker conflict. These think we see the actual cave drawing occur in the game of thrones prequel, oh, meeting hope not. Well, maybe they'll give him another chance. Maybe it'll be more compelling on the second pass, which was the greater reveal seeing all of the cave markings in the dragon stone cave or seeing the names written on the ceiling Jacob's cave. Listen, I really enjoyed the final season of lost on this most recent rewatch, so. Asked me six years ago, or whatever like I would have been very upset today. I'm very Zana bat. I feel I feel great about loss now. Okay. All right. Very right. So Danny's come out, and we're gonna get the update update on everything that happened. And so, well, we took Casserly rock. Great. Great. Great Danny's, so miss wide. I listen to you. Yeah. I mean, tearing strike to not good only too. Well in a row at least and and Dabo says like feeling the tensions so thick that you could cut it with a cat spot knife. And he's like, well, we ought to be going like stay got questions. I have no advisers. They're all dead. I need to talk to all of you. Now, you are you've been drafted into my into my inner circle, and she echoes what lady said to her enough what the clever plans, let me get on my dragons, and let me torch these mo- foes, so she wants to do. She just wants to she wants to get this thing lit. And of course, it's what she's going to do. She wants to hear what John snow has to say because everybody else is kind of opposed to this. She wants to John things because after just a little more than an episode. She really values what the. The king of the north has to say kind of yada yada pass this part. There's a lot of chemistry between John and deniro in that cave. Like, you know, she's like she's not seeing things Johnson. Does work in caves Jones, really where he thrives. And there's a little bit of that there. He's like guiding her through and she's like, oh my and he's like, oh, my myself and Sam somewheres saying, oh by hey, this great date location. Josh that it's. You know, you get a leader by the hand through there a little bit history danger. Location. Wow. That's a concern. Yeah. So date he's gonna talk to John alternate shades spot. She's into it. She's she likes John a lot. He kind of likes her. You could tell that. These guys are really starting to connect. And she wants to know what he has to say. And he says, listen, no one ever thought dragons would exist again. This is crazy that they do you've made the impossible happen. Make them believe that you can make other impossible things happen be different than what has come before. But if you just go over there and burn everybody. It's not different. It's just more of the same. So like, wow, I was really starting to like you very not into it anymore. And she's like I'm gonna get on my drag just burn a lot of stuff. That's really what I wanted to. How do we get from? Here's John snow's sounded lice to where we get to at the end of the episode where she is just torching. The Lancaster army. Yeah. I don't know. I think that she just kinda decides. Like, why am I listening to? The advice of somebody. I met the other week. I probably just go and burn all these people. Nothing. Jon snow. It's what the fans want. All right. So we are going to go back to outside of winter fell and get to see the great Bryanne versus aria matchup SWEB Rianne sparring with pod. But then REO wants a crack at Bryanne, very fun. Not. I don't know how much we need to talk about it. It's a fun scene. We get a little bit of like the water dancing Oreos back Nash as the dagger in the mix twos. That makes the combat kind of interesting. There's some funny banter between the two of them about how brands like little sort is like you don't want what you wanna use ours. Like, I'm not gonna hurt you with it brands like, oh, that's not what I meant. But okay. It's on. And it's a it's a fun little battle. It's a nicely choreographed little seen. Nice little moves Bouche before we get to the loot. Train battle later in the episode. I wish that they would Spar with the like sparring swords like they would do up at castle black that they're made me very nervous of one wrong move. And now Ari is dead that you know, the brands we'll see the protector of the star kids where aria is brand is like, you know, swing sort as hard as she can. Yeah. They have plot armor on. So it's gonna be safe. I guess so make sure like if you are sparring with anybody kids with real swords, make sure everybody's wearing their plot. Armor, give me a scene in the final season with Brienne in aria fighting side by side. I'll take that right now. I think that that's coming our way. Okay. All right. Cute ending who tell you how to do that. No one. No one. You're the you're the best you best. You are a real rascal aria great. It's a great. That's a great line. No one lung are. You're the best and little finger is like watching a distance, and he's like these stark concert pretty nuts. She has the dagger. Now. Something's kind of kind of slip at their fingers here. So in my bag. Getting hot Davos is talking with John guy talk now. Yeah, I mean talk. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit of like early stages of Greece with like sandy and Danny talking to their people and like recounting the summer the long summer the short desire will. Yes. And and they're talking about in John's like, it's nothing. It's nothing was like, yeah. I think it might be a little more than you're leading on John's. Like, there's no time for that. All the night king. I can't I only have eyes for the Nike. Yeah. Okay. So we're not talking about that. So John wants to know how many men do we have in the north to fight the night king? Yeah. Ten thousand less and Davos with the nice, call back to his boys. Stands says fewer. Status would be happy man is smiling down in loops left and right here in these these final episodes suck. Right. So they catch up with misunder. Yeah. Why why are you hold on? Why are you named Johnston? If your father was Ned stark. She doesn't understand. She doesn't know the custom which is prize to me considering knows like a thousand languages, you'd think maybe she would she would know about this. But I guess not she doesn't she doesn't know the naming functions for bastards in west Reuss. So she's a little surprised by that on north. Apparently, they don't have marriage. We're just like really free. Not on actually so. Dabo. That sounds liberating does jokey in season seven. Yeah. You know, what he loves Masan? He's the measles. Huge misunder fan. I don't think like in any kind of weird way. I get the sense that he just like he thinks she's wonderful. She's she's a riot. She's a stitch. He's just he's having a blast says speaking to Goodhart, Sears Basan Dame, a favorite person dragon stone, and she's talking up. Danny. Why why she serves Danny up a cost of Ed her parent were was the ruler. That's the Queen that she chose and she would let the Sunday leave. And would you forgive me? If I switched sides and messiahs like, I don't know. You're so weird. Leave me alone. I loved Avas. I'm sure it's fine. But besides probably why is he always here. Always here. All right. A ship is coming in the great joy ship in deed. And man. This is awkward, okay? Oh, look what the cat dragged in. It's gone. Another reunion less pleasant than some of the other reunions. We've seen recently it's beyond John together. Again, they were never like massively close. I don't think they both. It was more like rob was the cool one and they were both friends with rob. So they had to hang out with each other. You know, what it's like being rob? So there like there's a little bit of tension there just as the bedrock of their relationship. There's also the fact that fee on betrayed the Starks led to events where Robb stark was killed the public stories. He got Brandon Rick on killed so John's not a huge fan. Yeah. Maybe this being at another point where earlier in the show may be John would have been even more mad that he got a wreck on killed at least John knows that that wasn't the Unsal. Yeah. That was that. Was all Ramsey. A little bit of Rick on as well with an assist. John is like the very much. That's fine. He's going to smear him. Really does. You know, he's going to speak to give him a pass because of everything that had Sanson fair enough. That's good. Okay. All right. Let's get to our main event. And let's go back to the fields outside of king's landing where Jamie and Braun are trying to get everybody back into king's landing. Yeah. And actually, this is where bronze starts laughing at dick on Tara. We we we have it reversed a little bit. But always good to revisit that moment. Because it's so funny. I would just cracks in on face, dick. I'm Tara apparently having the last laugh, he's just crushing it on umbrella academy. Everybody seems to really enjoy. Yup. I heard it's very good. Josh Josh now, I'm here. He's very big on rela academy lake as part of the character. He plays a guy named Luther and losers is like a very big body and like like like an oddly big body and on game of thrones. I was these really alert, and as well, he's very built this guy. Yeah. And it has that Luther going on. Yeah. Okay. All right. We are seeing. Let's try to round up the stragglers there. Okay. The Tara a Randall tar Lee is going to be working on that. Okay. So we start hearing some noises shrieking rumbling. There's something happening Braun who is constantly cuting and has been nominal hearing. He hears something in the distance everybody shut up something's happening and from around the corner. The doth rocky arrive and harass his army. Is here. And this is this is a scary sight Bron wants Jamie to go back to king's landing. Immediately. Jaime refuses this is my army. I have to defend it. And bronze says your commander. You're you're not an infantryman you have to leave. But he doesn't wanna do it. And by the even if he did at this point to lake comes to narrow on dragon back. As she's a roast the field of fire question. How did he get to west rose? I don't know, man. Did. Is it just did? They did. I mean, I didn't denier his fully all get destroyed in the last episode. Yeah. Mostly. Yes. I mean, so what they do. I don't know. Did did the maybe there's some ship still at dragon stone that they a lot of people and horses they brought their horses. But why why do we care? I don't know that that's not interesting detail. No, it's listen. If that's the kind of thing that you wanna get hung up on the final. I didn't want to. Maybe there was maybe I missed something. No. I don't think you missed anything. I think it's just like the doth rocky or now in west rose, and you're kind just supposed to just buy into it and go with it in the spectacle is wonderful in the choreography and the scripting of the fight is wonderful. And it's a great cinematic moment, and it is the com- the combination of many seasons of wanting to see the doth rocky in west rose. And then like there's when you look it's just like when you look at the back of the train the loot train. You see there's a thread hanging out the back. And if you pull on that hard enough, you can rabble thing for your loved it. I said it was my favorite Fido. And I'm not I'm not talking to to you necessarily. But I think that this is a thing with when you when you win the Royal you look at the final seasons of game of thrones. If that's the kind of thing that that jams you up. I don't not understand it. It makes sense to me that that's something that's going to bother you. I myself have been bothered by. Some of the conveniences in the writing along the way, maybe less so on the rewatch than on the I watch really was very annoyed by the beyond the wall stuff. Yeah. There's a decent amount of that in. These episodes is one of those instances, the the great joys just came with a ship. The coulda used that. Yeah. They just buried to them all one by one. On a ship seem more like a rowboat. They that the unsullied could've dropped some off on their way to Casserly rock, maybe grey, worm came back, so all sorts of possibilities. Okay. Getting line everybody. Yeah. Gametime hold the line. So it's just it's it's it's fights o'clock. You know, it's all happening and drogue on is going to be here. And he's gonna set a bunch of people on fire. We're gonna see doth rocky warriors. And they've really there's they're fighting in such a way that the Lancaster men have just never seen this before. And they're just getting their butts kicked they're able to kill a few of these doth rocky. But by and large like, you're really seeing a lot of the doth rocky screamers just crush these people. They're just this is what they were born for they've been this is their destiny they've been waiting for this. We can't do it Justice. It's so great. When Danny is flying on Rogun behind the death Raqi riders as they're coming in there. Screaming rogue on bull lasting fire burning Lancaster's all over the place. Yeah. And Bron gets into a one on one fight with one of the with one of the rocky, and they always done great work with. With with Jerome Flynn in these actions scenes like from blackwater to now, he always gets to do some really amazing stuff, and he gets his own little story throughout this whole battle where he fights the guy he's in a VAT, very bad way. He's able to kill the doth rocky by using the gigantic dragon slaying crossbow, which now gives him a new toy to play with. And he's going to be the guy that's really gonna be coming after deniro's. Right. This was a concern that the dragons could've showed up at some point. It was enough of a concern that they brought burn scorpion out there with him. And so that that is a big part of this whole battle Jamie is going to get into some combat with a doth Raqi and then get saved by dick on Tarpley. Yes. So hats off to that guy. Yeah. A bronze gold is going to spill out. And he looks for zagging pick up all my gold, but he doesn't. Yeah. He's got other concerns. At the moment. Yeah. And we see teary and now that from the distance he's like a high atop mountain. Yeah. He's showing he's here. He's like, wait. We already discussed got skin in the game. His brothers on one side. His his Queen is on the other his best friend is out there to like, you know, he's just this horrible. There's no winning here every every outcome. Here is a is a potential disaster. And so we're going to see Braun he's going to try to aim the scorpion and take down drogue on. Yeah. He hits drove on in shoulder and drug on his is knocked out of the sky. It's very harrowing Tyrian is afraid as he's watching Danny ride to the ground. And it's obviously foreshadowing a much worse. Berge in of this. That's going to happen and just a couple of episodes when the night king specific out of the sky in very similar fashion. So on the rewatch something I think we can appreciate more about this moment and look drug on take that hit. We're going to see that established spears can hurt dragons. Yeah. Spears? Yep. Yeah. And drug is going to be able to shake it off. But he ends up compromised. Yeah. He's he's injured. It's it's, you know, at least a nuisance if not pretty painful deniro gonna try and yank thing out of him and Jamie is just kind of staring sort of in this like ekit like the sense of being like this out of body experience for him where he's on horseback. All his people like so many of them are set on fire. There's some some of the imagery of that. I had really not registered on first passes of this episode. Like, you see people like their faces melted off berry grizzly Jamie is kind of like serving all of the carnage of it. And he is seeing deniro's across the battlefield with dragon. And like he has like this come come to seven God's moment where he is going to grab and nearby javelin. And he is going to rush at the dragon Queen with the thought that if he kills her. Now, the war is. Over his own health damned and Tyrian from a distance is going to be like. You're so dumb. Jamie. Come on, man. The things us for love very in character for Jamie, Lancaster, another reason. Why this whole battle is so great because it is very true to character for everybody on board. It's one. Yeah. So he's gonna make his big push. And then drove on is going to stare him down. And then it's Braun with the dive save Knox. Jamie Lancaster off his horse and into the water. Yeah, cliffhanger. And I think that at the time I think people were pretty pissed off about this. And there was a lot of questions. Like is that it for Jamie Lancaster's, eat dead. It's like, of course, he's not dead pretty deep under the water. But he that's not how they're going to. If Jamie lane is gonna die in that moment. He was just gonna get roasted alive by dragon fire. You know, there's no reason to knock them into the water and half him died way. So I don't know. I think that it's an episode that plays better on rewatch because there's some value in like the way that setting up the death of Syrian a couple of episodes from now, I'm sure it's only gonna be strengthened in the future. Once we get more of a sense of the relationships that are gonna come out of the new alliance of the living like Jamie is fighting for the living. So he and dinner's going to probably have to have a conversation at the very least which should be pretty interesting after he just tried to assassinate her. There's also great moment when Braun has the crossbow and he fires off at drogue on MRs dares is like locks eyes with Bron. She like, you're the guy who wounded my kid like I feel like at the very least he's gonna have to get punched in the face for that one too know for a second time. So I think that'll be really fun. I think that just when you have a little more context of beyond this episode plays better than. Probably played in its first viewing. Yeah. I I loved it. I loved it scream. I don't remember if I was mad in the first time through, but I loved it today. It's all the counts. Excellent. Excellent episode. Excellent sequence a really really great episode. And I think the high point of season seven for sure, okay? I mean, the cliffhanger is just like the next like pulling Jamie out of the water space. It's like no big deal pretty much. Okay. But I like I think that it would have been more frustrating to have them like out of the water, then just like cut to black. This was just like, you know, the hour was up here. Totally totally totally needed a way out of this episode back time. All right. Josh that is going to do it for us here as we are now only three episodes away from the end of our rewatch. We've time to this. So well, yeah, nailed it. You nailed it. I know I d-, but it's working out. So we've got three episodes left in the rewatch before we start getting into some ramp up material for some preview stuff heading into the final season of game of thrones. Next week. We're coming to east watch we're going to we're going to get the brotherhood without banners. Back into the into the scene. We're going to reunite with Genry gantries. Yup. He's back. Yeah. I think people look at this episode this next one, and they think of it as the either the weakest of season seven or the most forgettable of season seven, so it'll it'll be interesting to to hash that through and see where we land on that this were Davos is going to sneak into Kingsland or two. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one thing. I remember he's got like the pickled crabs. Yeah. We'll have fun with that. Okay. So Josh anything else you wanna touch on here today. No got you know, fully in game of thrones season for me, so t HR dot com slash game of thrones, lots of stuff happening all week long picking up the news as it breaks and keeping up with those weekly final path columns. We posted our brand stark final path column on Sunday of this past week. And the next one coming up is boy Sam well Carly coming up this Sunday those post on HR dot com slash game of thrones at nine forty five in the morning eastern time on Sundays. So if you're bored on a Sunday, and you want to read about game of thrones. And you want to know what I think is going to happen to these character. I stop what you're doing on a Sunday rejoices article worked hard on it. Thanks, man. Yeah. You're right. Well, I was going to check out joshes article, but not bored. I still six the umbrella to whatever you wanna do. I don't wanna dictate your life. Just live your life. However, you wanna live it. But if it involves reading my articles about game of thrones that will make me happy. So all right. Josh Wigley on Twitter at round Howard, follow him for all the latest news coming out on game of thrones. I'm at Robson take everybody. Good one by.

Jamie John Danny Braun Bron Lancaster Santa Santa Josh Josh Jon snow Naria Starks deniro king Ned stark Walker Sam somewheres Arias Jamie Lancaster aria Josh Wigley Sansa
Game of Thrones Season8, Ep #4 Recap | The Last of the Starks

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00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones Season8, Ep #4 Recap | The Last of the Starks

"Tonight's game of thrones recap is sponsored by our friends over at blue diamond almonds. Are you watching game of thrones and tired of the same boring snacks? Let me tell you winter's here. And so is the perfect snack blue diamond almonds. Whether you're going to work going to king's landing board at work leaving work. These almonds are the perfect snack. They've got Honey roasted dedom- in Saracho flavored almonds with Sabi and soy sauce flavored almonds. Do. I have your attention. Why keep snacking on boring chips, but you can go to the store and pick up some blue diamond almonds right now. Whatever the moment. Blue diamond almonds is the perfect snack. Don't deny your cravings. Go pick up some great flavors right now and eat them, blue diamond, almonds crave. Victoriously? Yes. That's right. The snow and all are here. Game of thrones season. Eight episode four is over. But we are just getting started live. After this wild episode of game of thrones. And now here the two guys who are going to have to keep their heads on straight tonight. I am rob sister here with Steven fish pack. Oh my goodness. Steven why? Well, what when whenever you do the air that air, trumpet. I just feel like, you know, it's so good. It's so good that I sometimes I I'm a stake in Lee think that I've actually watching. Yeah. We didn't that just watch. Okay. Stephen seen fish back. Okay. How are you holding up? Okay. I'm good. You know, I all in one piece which is more than we can say for some of these characters. Wow. Okay. So big big wild episode tonight. Big death at the end Masan day. We have a lot of people expected her to not make it out of the battle of winter fell. She did didn't make it through tonight's episode. Ragle also surprise death tonight. I was annoyed about the ragle day because it did seem like by all rational reasons, he should have died last week. And clearly like the only reason he didn't die last week was just so he could die this week. You know, so that he could like DIVY across Bo is kinda sad. You know, it's kind of says and just you know, hopefully, we'll talk about military tactics. Which is always are strong get there by the the direct assault. You know? Consistently not working out for for Danny and our forces just like go in straight up straight on the front. I will say that dragons are much more maneuverable than boats. This just go round from behind just go around from behind sneak attack them or even just like they're firing crossbows. Let's reverse go around Bros. Them from behind. Yes. I'm had the boats snuck up on the dragon. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, we've got a lot to get to Stephen. I am I crazy that this was my favorite episode out of the four so far in this season. Oh, wow. I really liked episode two. And I think that this had the first half of this had a lot of the real virtues that was to where you had a lot of those character moments, and it felt to whereas like episode there was this real sense of tentativeness. It felt like some of these character moments were paying off. I mean, obviously, you know throughout the plot stuff. I was a little. We'll tell me I guess it was a good combination. Is that that's kind of what you're saying. Yeah. I felt like that. I thought this episode really had everything that we had a we had a battle. We had all of the character moments at winter fell. And then we had so much of the scheming and plotting and palace intrigue that I really enjoy about the show. So to me this episode everything and I felt like that where that the first two episodes. I felt like going in. We're going to be pretty formulaic in terms of. Okay. We're going to set up we're going to set up. And then last week was going to be all battle this week. I didn't really know what to expect. And it was kind of one thing for forty minutes. And then it was a different thing in the second forty minutes. Yeah. And I guess it was sort of great sort of have it all everything that game of thrones is is good for you had had speculated that this would be sort of a plate setting or table setting episode for the kind of the the two final episodes. And it was that it seemed like it was that. And it was also kind of a table clearing episode. Where is certainly in the first half you had a lot of characters just sort of. You know, saying goodbye, right? We said goodbye at torment. We said goodbye to Sam again. But they're obviously not going to be. Maybe they'll pop up like waving goodbye from there like force halo, like the end of throwers, but you know. Also, I felt like that a lot of points. I didn't know where it was going. And honestly at I was on the edge of my seat at the end of the episode. I didn't know how it was going to wrap up. Yeah. Well, that's the benefit of watching a few minutes later than everybody else because everything will be spoiled for you on Twitter as as it happened. It's gonna happen to you. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. You were tweeting. Yeah. I know it was my for my own my own fault. My live by the tweet die by the tweets. But I could imagine if I hadn't been spoiled that I would be worried for Tyrian. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So Stephen let's start at the end. Of course, if you want to get your tweets into the show at rob cicirino got Twitter open. If you want to send us your comments, of course, feedback show coming up on Tuesday this week with Josh Wigley chick everything he's doing for T HR is at round Howard on Twitter, send your questions in geo post show. Recaps dot. Dot com. All right, Stephen. So we ended the episode with denarius walking back now are is going to hop on a drug on and retreat or is she getting on drug on and then going to start her tack. It does seem pretty likely that they're going to do a full frontal slaughter, right? I mean, it seems like there's sort of setting up and Massanga is last word is truecar is right. Which is basically burn. It all is. So. I was going to hear her really did you? Yeah. Well, apparently drove on that. It's sort of like your iphone where if say if you try to talk to my internet enabled assistant, it's not gonna work. Right. So it's not like just anyone can say drug on drug congressman hill. He really has to be Danny's voice, although sometimes with these internet assistance, you can program a couple of voices. So maybe drove on you know, he's got a couple would they can talk in different voices. But I think it's still goes a by your if you try to pick up your friends iphone, I don't know if that works. I can ask you know, like, my my wife is. Okay. Oh boy sharing phones. Okay. Anyway, but what what's your take? So you think you think it's going to be because we know that we have this army coming from the north. It's gonna take them a little while to get there as always Sanchez very concerned with stores, and everyone's me, basically, a resource level denarius not so concerned with those things, and then you've got, you know, scenarious more smaller expeditionary force. It's that's right there at the gates king's landing. What's your take? What's going to happen next? I don't know. I think that Danny is gonna buzz, you know, the king's landing, but I don't know if she's going to have the heart necessarily to burn the city with, you know, all, you know, thousands and thousands of people inside those walls. But she's wanted it to be she's been she's been pitching burn them all plot for like seasons. Now. I mean, I think a big right? A lot of wasn't season seven or season season. Six was her basically say. Well, what if we just burn everyone? And then kind of everyone's talking out of it. And then she's in what if what if we set fire to everyone in king's landing, and it really does. I mean from my perspective, it really seems like that's that's where she's going. And certainly it seems like her adviser is all of their concern about how she might not be fit ruler. You know, I feel like it's a new concern for her. Danny's whole thing has been what a great ruler. She is. You know, she raised bullshit cares about the people. And this new turn where people are scared of her as a Queen is kind of a new development yet. It's wild this episode. I think really the nearest stock has really bought bottomed out here in episode when we talk about that, you know, wrapping up the series with her on the iron throne. It's getting harder and harder to imagine that she has fewer and fewer people in her corner. Where it seems like that the only person that really still believes in her is a Tyrian. Yeah. And that was kind of that was such a great scene between tearing. Varis where Tyrian just makes his case. You know, you like you pick your person, and you you fight like hell for them. And I thought that was kind of great. It was almost it was almost the case for blind loyalty to expensive reason it didn't even seem like Tyrian was necessarily arguing that daddy would be the better ruler between between herself John Jewish. We talk with Ed or shall we have so much. There's so much to talk about with everything I thought Tyrian was going to die in this episode. Yeah. Do you mean by? I was going to give the order. I thought she was going to take out take out Tyrian and Tyrian was going to basically go down with the ship for deniro's. Yeah. That would've been kind of a crummy death for Tyrian. I think like, you know, once again sort of Jared tried to warn him. Yeah. But but for this character who's been this brilliant strategist strategist for some of the show terrible strives for another a lot of the show has been such an instrumental character for so much just for him to be like in this like desperate parlay to save the city, maybe maybe like one last attempt to rain into Nares his worst impulses to save his sister. No one last attempt to hedge between all of his competing interests and concerns that would've been kind of cool colon. But no if I may have one nitpick, and I this was my favorite episode of the season. I did not understand. Why, sir? He and the gray joy forces did not fire one of those scorpions at drogue on who appeared to be a sitting dragon just seemingly within range at the point where they be headman Sunday. Right. Why not fire a scorpion off on to drove on? Why not kill that whole group right there? I mean, obviously, it's against the rules of the par lay. But we've never never really slick killed hostage killed. Why not kill Danny any of those things. You know, it did not seem like that. There was an instrumental of force of the unsullied. I mean that they had a respectable showing? But I get the sense that they probably had less than the two thousand two thousand and twenty thousand golden company. I don't remember. I don't know. It's a number where the two, but probably twenty thousand. That's sounds more formidable. No elephants though. But I really I don't know why after they already killed regal. Why not why not attack drogue on? Yeah. He's right there. You've got the may maybe they put all the crossbows on the ship. Were there any cross was they were all lined up with those that the surrounding surrounding the perimeter. Yeah. Wow. I it really does seem like a missed opportunity to to end the threat of the dragons for wants to take out deniro's. Again, like really huge violation of photocall. But but certainly his whole story arc has been nothing. She does not respect the norm. Stephen. Yeah. She did blow up the church and everyone in it. So I feel like once you've done that. That's just as bad as it gets. She plays by her own rules. The the other thing that I thought was going to happen. At the end of the episode Wayne Tyrian comes up to surf daddy and makes her plea. And then he starts talking about your if not for if not for you do it for your child. And when I felt like, right? You're on graduates. Hold on a second has he know about the child because the last time you talked to him that was before you, and I did you know what? So how did he know about the baby? Yeah. We'll soapy assume that there's ravens go back and forth gossip as well hired. I thought that he when he was going to start mentioning the baby I thought that was when I was going to give the order, and it was gonna write Tyrian shooting his foot in his mouth. And then she was going to give the order to execute him. But you gotta wonder is you're on great joy, and sir c going to have a conversation where then does your on want to take his fleet and go home does he put two and two together over that probably not seems. But maybe this is like the beginning of a rift between the two of them. I mean, it happened on the show. I mean, they they did a lot in terms of that the previously on was about telling us, it was Jamie's baby. Then then we're getting your on. And then serve see telling your on tonight. You're on in Khyber and giving your on the thumbs up, and then the baby coming up again, the has to be an important moment. That the baby is definitely going to be an important plot point. And it certainly seems like it might play into the relationship between your on seriously. And then Jamie coming down from the north, right? Is he coming down to to kill her to save the baby to defend the baby and some crazy last-gasp one of my favorite things about this episode? And just generally the character service is how delighted she is in her own evilness. You know, she always has that kind of little smile on her face of just like I'm having. I'm so great. You know, it's like, and then though wall Tyrian was talking about the baby she had felt like there was this last evocation of her humanity where she got a little bit teary eyed. It's felt like something kind of got past that that smile and really touch the inner part of her was there any part, you, rob. That thought you know, what maybe she will. Maybe she'll she'll change her ways did not think that she was going to change. Her ways we've gone, you know, eight seasons with seriously Lancaster, did not think that just the mere mention of the baby especially because she already duped Tyrian without once before. Yeah. Why here in such a such a loser? You know, like he's like, he's a he's lost his Mojo. He really did. I mean, he's like so consistently bad. And this is the same BS. He keeps doing he keeps on falling for this idea that like seriously can be reasoned with and then like immediately afterwards. He's like, oh, she got me again. And then in the end the last season two he's like well this time she's really with us. She got me again. You know, it really got to learn your lesson, buddy. Yeah. He's lost his edge. And he is going along with Danny. And it feels like that she's going down the wrong path. Various had such a big episode tonight. He had been so quiet through the first episodes. But he's here in a big way in episode tonight. And I really got the sense even at the end of that conversation that I thought that. Varis seemed like that he's on board with some sort of assassination plot or at least supporting John through his more more devious devious ends like rallying support devious than facination. Well, you know, SAS nation is very direct right like devious in terms of like, you know, more political political weaving. Yeah. Assassin I guess I guess he's like played with that played that card before. Right. I tried to have deniers killed before. Yeah. Exactly. That sometime in these next two, I think that denarius gets wise to Varis, and I think that that she executes various. Oh, really? So you think there I think various is going to be one of the survivors. I think he is going to be there at the end, you know, the Sunday or Mel Sandra prophesized that it was gonna be her fate to die in this country. Like it's going to be yours Varis in season seven maybe like lives on a long life as a farmer. I mean, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was also a conversation between Danny and various in season seven where she really called him out on his Welty. Yeah. And that seems to be an interior kind of really question question. His essential. He's always talked about how he's loyal to the realm. And I thought here in a great point like what is the realm. You know, like what does that even mean? And like how does that have to do with any of this little politicking 's? But then there's other great rebuttal to that. Which is that, you know, the people in this realm, the millions of people are deeply affected by by politics. It did feel like a very felt like a very timely argument. In terms of how much does politics matter to the individual at a local level. Absolutely. And I guess let's bring John snow into all this because in some ways classic, Jon snow. Classic stupid dumb. Jon snow where he can't leave. Well, enough alone. All of the partying going on in king's landing all of the happiness and merriment. He can't just let it be where he feels he needs to tell Sansa and aria about his true, lineage and denarius in him. They have seen together. She begs him. Don't do. This. Don't do this. He doesn't want to be king doesn't want the right. He was very happy with her as Queen like everything works out for John. And for Danny if John can just keep his trap shut. Yeah. And I thought that was a really great moment in the beginning of the episode where like it was a torment was the one that was really putting his foot in his mouth where he was like, here's John snow. What a guy greatest guy like is. He a king is he a madman. He wrote it dragon. Can you believe this guy and deniers like the sort of like the room sort of like went quiet around her we really focused in on her and got her POV on it? And various was the only one that really call. What was going on there? And John is this person who he's loved by the masses? Yeah. I also liked it. They mentioned the delectable. He came back from the dead. Many. This guy came back from the dead. Isn't that crazy like because it doesn't seem like it's brought up enough that he came back from the dead. He seems like the kinda guy people would. Wanna go have a beer with and or or resurrect and Dinares is looking at this. She's like, I don't like this. And then that conversation, and she's like, okay. Just promised me that you will not say anything about you being the rightful heir to the throne to anybody like well. I'm John snow. That's kind of my thing. I have to be completely honest with people and this got them into hot water back in season seven where. Sir. C said, okay. All you have to do is. You know? I think what did she want? Oh, you'll you'll remain in the north. And he's like, oh, I can't I made a promise to my Queen inserts like deals off. That's it. Yeah. He's like you idiot. Why can't you just tell one lie? Yeah. It does feel like John is out of a sort of like different novel. You know, it's like everyone in this game of thrones is so world-weary. They're also like exhausted. They're so cynical and bitter by the incredible terrible things that have happened to them. You know, so much of this episode was just about like I used to be a different person. And I'm deeply scarred. John is like I must I must not tell a lie. You know, he's out of something like like like swords and Serie. He's Ned stark. I wonder that is it going to be John's ultimate fate to suffer the same destiny as not his true father. But the man who raised him Ned stark will he ultimately die for not being able to just tell this lie. Yeah. I mean, that is sort of where I was going with that, you know, this whole the whole point of game of thrones is just that that is not right that that that story is not a realistic story. Like that story is not is not truly which stories realistic story game of thrones. Well, well, they're like the noble Knight charges off and saves the world and has never threatened. You know, like everyone in this in this war is deeply traumatized, and yes, obviously dragons and dial's the night game. Yeah. Well, the Nike as a metaphor. And everyone, you know. But anyway, so I if John to me like this episode and him refusing to lie about that was like the purest sign that he is definitely going to die by the end of this series. Because like that character cannot live through this. It would be too absurd. If that character lived through will denarius kill Johnstone. Maybe he dies killing taking her out. I mean that was something certainly we've talked about. Killing him and him never having actually done anything. Particularly noble would be take out Ramsay Bolton. But but not really, right. He didn't even really take Ramsay bold. It was a group effort. Yeah. But really the knights of the Vale came in smash ran, well, I mean, not to replay the battle of the bastards. But yeah Johnson John snow and his forces were defeated tonight to the Vale came through. And then one one the giant had a lot to do with, you know. Busting the door open and then in hand to hand combat. He did best Ramsey. So I do wish I won't like some big moment for John. Right. Like, he's got to have like some something. And I I certainly didn't need him to take. So the night came. I thought it was really cool. It that already did it. But I want him to have something. I don't know. It looks like that he is going to have this claim, and is something that really is going to potentially be the what is going to drive this wedge between him and dinners. Yeah. It certainly does look like. It's just not something that she's going to be able to get over. He can't keep his his fat traps shot. Well. Yeah. Let's let the cat out of the bag, and he had to tell Sansa and aria about it. And brand was like, well, basically, I won't say anything if you won't choice. It's your choice. And then which is a weird take from brand isn't brands whole thing. Like, it's all destined is all like, it's all been determined before your why not pick brands brain about the what's the right move here. Yeah. It doesn't feels like brand is very he's very like sanguine about about fate and everything and tell you know, maybe why in a little bit is an opportunity for him to actually way. And. Yeah, what should I tell them or no tell us what don't worry about it? Hold on a second. What do you think? What do you think? My favorite. I mentioned this on our last or two ago, but I just love how everyone's reaction to brand. Because it's always so cryptic. And they're like everyone who you who accept the person. Who knows what he's talking about is. I was like, okay. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. Well, well, pumpkin pointed. Yeah. I guess we're talking about brand. There was the conversation was was it with Tyrian about, you know, basically talking about how you know, he seriously like, I envy you, and he said why spend most of my time in the past St. now could this be a hint at time traveling brands stark, definitely not ran the builder. No, no. We're not doing that. I mean 'cause he's like looking at the past right? That's what he's doing is extending most pretend like looking at the past. Okay. All right. I just think like the level of explanation that would have to like I mean, maybe that that pays off in the books. Like, I'm not going to deny the possibility of that. But like the ten minutes of explanation that that would be required. You know, when every second of this show is so precious. I just don't buy okay. Even know who are you are you are you actually bullish on that? Or are you just sort of like positing it as throwing it out there? I don't see how we can get there with two episodes left. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be we'll say maybe it was prequel series. Okay. So Stephen next week. Do you think that we see the fall of king's landing? Yeah. I do think. So do you. Yeah. I think that if I had to chart out how these next to associate going to go, I do think that sir c will be defeated in this next episode. And then I think that the final episode will deal with the ultimate claimant. Yeah. John Marissa sorting that out. Yeah. That makes sense to me. That next episode is the downfall of surgery. And then the final episode is really just like figuring out the fate of the realm moving forward. Yeah. And we'll see ultimately it looks still pretty summary in king's landing. Yeah. As winter gonna come to king's landing. That's a really good question. They did talk about it that it was winter still in the episode. But I think that we will not see it snow again in the entire series. I mean, it's like when winter in Miami, you know, it's like slipping older, you know, it's like the high fifties. Right. But last season, you know, there was a snowflake on Jamie's glove winters reached kings. Landing. But yeah, I don't know. Let's we have time jump between episode five and six year. They can't afford the snowflake affect anymore. You know? That's why they had to send goes north. Couldn't couldn't deal with. That was such a bummer like this. Yeah. Let's let's talk through everything from winter fell in this episode. And we have a lot of headlines a lot of goodbyes. But I think we have to start with Jamie and a Serb Rianne of tarp. Wow. What a cat. I wanna cat. I thought Jamie. It turned to new leaf and these this like break in women's hearts that was really wild. I thought that we were gonna get Bryanne and torment really. Really? Eight hundred shorthorn wouldn't have done that to her. Yeah. I think maybe torment might have lost out with when he wanted to know, which which villain was responsible for soiling his pants. It's not a great pickup was not maybe in the north it works. But I really was surprised that we got Jaime and Brienne. And then it didn't seem like it was a one night stand Steve. And it seemed like that it was almost like that we were shipping, Jamie and Bryanne. And then suddenly the Jamie really did Brienne dirty at the end of the episode. Yeah. It looked like maybe a little romance had sparked. But then when Jamie learns that what's what's going on with with generis and the fleet e runs down south is he he's running down south to kill her. Right. I don't know. If I got that. What was what was the line that he said that he said that she is search e is is what I was not a good person. And it was not a good person either. I don't remember the exact words because he was like, I did I I pushed a boy out of a window for her. I strangled my cousin to death for her. I would have killed every person in river run for her. What was the actual line? I don't I don't have the the actual line off. But the point is hateful. She's hateful and syllabi. But you know, that could mean I'm going to defend her. But it also could mean like I'm going to redeem myself by like ending it. Yeah. Over that. She took it the she killed the dragon and took Masan day. That was what got Jamie to go and say, you know, what I've had it with this surf daddy. Well, it doesn't make sense that he would go to defend her after she had a victory, right? Like, he probably sees that she's actually not the not in as bad shape, as as everyone thought, it wasn't going to be a layup, invasion where and one thing you can say for certain is that she is tactically smarter than the the northerners. Right. And this forced of Danny, and John which you know, they're incredibly inhibited by their morals on they do these ridiculous like full just like frontal assaults. They'd never the idea of like flanking is completely foreign to them and your big flanker. I well. You know, it's it's not just me. A lot of other people are into flanking. So anyway. I think that from my read on that moment was that, Jamie. Sees like, oh, these people are not going to be able to handle sir because they're not on her level. Like, they're like the good guys who are like charging in guns. Blazing start charging expecting a fair fight, and she's thirty and I'm dirty and only dirty person is going to be dirty enough to take down thirty. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see what we get. We had Braun show up in this episode with a crossbow, and I kind of thought they like. I really I thought that the brand was going to die. Okay. Well, let's let's wrap up the bronze storyline. And I thought it was almost comical the Braun with Tyrian and Jamie. It was fun. But I mean, like, why doesn't somebody, you know, kill Braun at this point. Yeah. Well, certainly certainly now that like he's like holding them hostage. And he's like he's in winter fell where it's not like he has a lot of allies. There should be like you arrest that guy right there right there that guy. Go rest him. Yeah. I mean, maybe he's hiding, but it's a little cartoony of like all right now. I got this offer. Can you beat this offer can you? He's like, you know it. I don't mind it. I mean, I. It's fine. I just thought like okay, oh Brienne is gonna walk in. And then, you know, kill Braun. He's like he's like, oh, we need you to be an officer. Like, what is he going to do? He's like hiding out until then he's not going to get high garden. Yeah. It's hard to hide to if a giant crossbow that you're dragging around. He's got he's going to like there's going to be some big noble act for broad, right? Because like isn't his historian that he secretly is. Like a good guy. We'll find out I guess. So I mean, he wasn't punch punched in the nose. But he didn't break his nose important distinction. Yes. And he should know. Stephen I jumped into the bronze stuff, but just to go back to Jaime and Brienne is that it for them. Does Jamie Lancaster survived this? And then get back to Brienne. I okay. I'm into that story. I think that is what happens. Yeah. What do you think? I don't know. How Jamie survives the that? If you were going to be handicapping who kill surf city. I think it's either Jamie or aria, I think that those are really the two, and I wonder, you know, are you got the night king. I dunno. She's gonna get to kill both the big beds in the series. You know, that'd be that'd be too much. I definitely think Jamie kills Hersi. But I don't think it's impossible that that he kills her without dying. I don't know. I don't know if this one does he want to go on living without without surf see. He's to go back. Maybe you can go back to her, and they can have like a nice little little moment. Yeah. I do think that because the brand. So I think there's more of a chance of him surviving this than before. But yeah, I think they both been like they both suffered so much that I feel like it almost makes it likelier that they will they'll make it through. I mean, not that you know, suffering is necessarily a metric for survivor ability in game of thrones. But I I have my hopes for the two of them. I agree. I agree. I think the facts that there was a little romantic moment between those two characters makes it likelier that he will survive in come back to her because it would be such a dick move from both Jamie and the show to like, you know, have him just really be a complete CAD lover lever. Never come back to her. I think that would be too much brand does she had two guys fighting over her and. She ends up with zero. Yeah. One goes north one goes south. Yeah. It's tough lots of other goodbyes in this episode. And we saw the torment seen torment says goodbye to John send ghost on his way. I really felt like the ghost got raw deal. I know Justice for ghost. I really think that like is totally you know, he said basically nothing to do this season. We saw him last episode sort of charging into the fray. Then we kind of see me looking like a little bit beat up like everyone like everyone else does. Now, kind of like like you got in a fistfight. Really, I feel like that's one of the big MRs of this season in general of the series in general as that goes is such a cool character, and like I really want more from ghost. Yeah. But John's not a stark anywhere has no use for dire. Wolf. That's outrageous. I'm always dragging now that one I maybe he'll get ghost back. Join very cavalier with his his hat magical animals. Yeah. So we had that goodbye seeing where he could buy with salmon Gilly, congratulations to Gilly shoe, the ninth woman who's currently pregnant on the show is that an actual true running total thirsty if Danny of Gilead. I don't know if anybody else's with child, maybe Bryanne, I guess I mean, you know, I guess a lot of that going around right now. Right. Watch out. Mario. Yeah. And you know, your your bullets that we're gonna get more Sam when when the season closes Jess he's writing writing. And then once upon a time in winter fell close close the book. Yeah. I think we have to see Sam again. I think this could be a rap for salmon Gilly, right? Definitely at least one more one more goodbye moment in the last episode could probably not next week. And then I think we'll see them back in the final episode of the series. We had a good bye with aria and Genri. Again, we had the big moment at the top of the episode where denarius made him Lord of storms, and I love where you know. She's calling him out and then asks him who's the Lord of storms anything? I've no idea. She does anybody know who which is fun. It was like bad for that guy. You know, like, oh because I missed dinner like, suddenly, I had my castle taken from me like just shown up for those who funny the show never never went there other than you know, Dabo. So. Mela, sandra? Like, a birthing the smoke monster. We never we never got to see storms and in game of thrones. We have no idea what's happening there. So does anybody know? But yes, so Gandhari is now the Lord of storms, and and so he goes and basically makes this five youth proposal to aria. And I I wrote in my notes before she even said it that's not me. This is coming a mile away. Yeah. That was never going to happen. And it makes it makes perfect sense. Not not at all aria. And it totally suggested, you know, honestly, the fact that even Genry asked that it was a little bit like insulting, you know. Like, you should know her better than that by this by now, did you see with I killed the night king? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna miss me. You weren't even on three of the seasons. Where were you like the Nike battle? Where was he, you know? I don't remember him being his aerobics rights get outta here January. But the hand also had a nice episode is a nice scene with each of the stark sisters. Yeah. Great seeing with Sansa where he says if you had left here with me, none of this would've happened. Yeah. She's like, well, if it wasn't for everything that I went through. I'd I'd still be that that little bird. That's that's really dark. That's a dark perspective. Yes. But that I kind of feel like that, you know, all of the suffering. That'll these characters went through. At least it has some gives it some meaning right right now. Because now she is like up to the challenges that she's facing which is largely managing stores. Right. I think that some people have accused the show of having more nihilistic worldview of you know, these characters are just suffering for our enjoyment. But at least that Sansa recognizes that well, yes, I suffered. But you know, I look at look at how much I've grown. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. And then and then you have the hound with aria leaving the castle together both on their way to winter fell to finish unfinished business now. We know what the hounds is. Right. How does going to kill his brother the one thing that might make him happy? Yeah. To kill or re kill his brother was Gregor over officially dead who was poisoning dead mostly day. But it was actually anyway. And who's who's are you going to kill? Well, I think she's gonna go to kill sir sitting. That's the last name. That's on her list is the is the mountain on. But she's gonna let the hound how that one. Yeah. But I agree. It's unlikely that aria kills certainty. Does that mean he's gonna kill aria? That's certainly a possibility. I know that you have been bullish in the path that Arias, I'm not gonna make it Stephen. Bye bye Wigley. I think Winkler's argument was he gave credit to you know. I got I got I definitely got the idea from him. Okay. All right. Well, then you're so are you still on board? Yeah. I I think I it's hard to say because because last episode was such a cop out in terms of killing characters. It kind of changed my perspective. Like, maybe are not only lives, but it's therapy finds a happy relationship. Reunites with them area. But overall other than last weeks, you know, live in whatever whatever we're calling it. You know, the fact that they refused to kill anybody. I think that that true spirit of the show aria would should die. Boy, 'cause it's terrible because it's the worst possible. And for those who did not here last week and have not her just say this. The idea is that because the only truly like horrible death at this point would be his death that the that's the one that has to happen because it's the one we could bear the least I think she's gonna make it. But we'll we'll see we'll see they would have you know, I that would be a very bold choice, and I respect bolt Joyce's. Yeah. Well, exactly I mean, and that's what this this show is about is about bowl choice. Yes. I speaking to make big moves to write this show. Speaking of bold choices. Stephen, let me take a moment. And thank our sponsor, and those are our friends over at blue diamond almonds because if you're watching game of thrones, you must be tired of the same boring snacks, not me because checkout what I have here you've got him. I've got the blue diamond Honey roasted flavored almonds container to snack -able contemporary Sneh. Couple container. I've got the bold Saracho flavored ends, and then of course, the body and soya sauce flavored almonds and why keep snacking on boring chips, and you go to the store and pick up blue diamond almonds, whether you're gonna work bored at work leaving work almonds are perfect snack. Anytime stephen. Let's just let's let's reenact this this battle tonight. So. So. This is if the let's see if the was sobbing soy sauce flavored almonds worthy. Great joy fleet. Very another. Another bold group bolt pairing the Saracho, I guess would be dinner dragon sheriff the Honey roasted almonds with the Lancaster forces still in king's landing. That makes sense that the golden the golden Lancaster's, right? You could take. You can take them out. And then eat them as you're planning out. Your next military move all the flanking that you're doing whatever the moment. Blue diamond almonds is the perfect snack. Don't deny your cravings. Go pick up some great flavors right now and eat them, blue diamond, almonds crave. Victoriously I about a half this can of the Honey roasted almonds. What's the top? It looks very like is it a plastic looks like a very easily received a very. Feelable top is crucial for something. Like that. I always do when you get a bag of chips, and you have forgotten clothes pin? All right. Steven any other thoughts was up. So it's bringing some questions. Well, I do wanna talk. Maybe we'll do the questions about that that conversation between tearing and various like what you think. And what we think, you know, what is the correct choice here. Like is. Is it Danny or the John? However, I also need to get my computer charter because when I was getting like all of my health health stuff. I forgot my charger. So I'll give you thirty seconds. I'll be right back. Okay. All right as we're waiting for Stephen to come back mister robot Taryn asks if St. the if Genry got friends zone by aria, and I have to say that was a resounding. Yes. I think that he got into the the zone. Sorry. Sorry. Gandhari apologize for that one. Jason on Twitter asks us if no hug for ghost. And yeah, I really don't know why John didn't at least like pet him. He really was John Mana coast for something. He gave him a really no no affection whatsoever for ghost. Not not cool. The Starks maybe are not great dire. Wolf owners if you don't love your dire. Wolf then you really you. Shouldn't you shouldn't have one? Okay. Stephen. Not even a Pat on the head for ghost. Sorry. Taking not even a Pat on the head for ghost. Yeah. No, nothing. And like he was all talking about how like Sam is his best friend who was given any ghost is outrageous. That's right. Okay. All right, making Z wants to know. Did you think at any point that Dan, he was gonna take out Sansa worst sister-in-law ever Sansa did not seem happy any point in this episode? I didn't I mean. Because like I think I feel like saints is is is safe right now. Right. I think Sanchez like made it through. She's the lady of winter fell. I think I think we're she's like pretty secure in that in that position. What what do you do you think there's any chance that there will be danger for Sansa later in as in this sort of final kind of showdown between all of the various Starks and tar garrisons. Well, I feel like that the characters that are in winter fell right now are all fine. There's no imminent danger to them. So I think Sansa there's nothing really to worry about. I'm not sure how they're necessarily involved in. The politicking moving forward where I I don't know if then Santa is going to join up with John and generis, maybe after we have services forces defeated in that final episode, and then she could be a witness to everything that's going on. Yeah. I mean, there has to be some moment where Santa is right. Like like because she's she's such a big force in that right in in this kind of these two diametric forces that John is is torn between. Since it is the Representative of one, right? Danny's Representative of one of the forces, right? Like, he's he's in love with Danny? He thinks she should be Queen and Sansa is really more the advocate for John king. Then John himself is so so I think that San set as the Representative of that is going to have to play some role in that kind of like final final negotiation. Whatever that that that big. And the real end moment is okay Zach Brooks wants to know what stop Danny from pulling deeds Ricard's trigger on European Reese prize that Danny did not torch any of Europeans fleet as she buzzed them. Yeah. I was I mean, it seemed like she was surprised by the fleets. Although it also seemed like they were supposed to be ambushing the fleet. And again, I think they were the fleet at dragon stone. Yeah. I was I I was I guess the fleet managed to to to surprise them. And again like they've never been big. On undoing undoing checking doing research doing scouting. No now, they don't do that only only if brand can war into ravens and then go see what's going on. It's only get involved with that. Why does he do that? Why do that for this got other stuff on his mind? So even if I may make one second nitpick on this episode. I wanted the kidnapping of misunder I felt like that that seemed like very targeted in terms of that they blew up the fleet every other person from Ryan sullied swam to shore is Masan they just she can't swim and she was just like bobbing along. And then they ended up just be she was easy to capture. Now. I guess I guess so or maybe they certainly knew who she was that kind of thing doesn't really bother me because it's you know, it's a TV show. Right. It's not it's not a real fleet. Crashing. I think they weren't told you get to the skiff. So maybe she was just a sitting duck in the boat. Right. She was in the rescue skiff. It turns out like, you know, you shouldn't have gone to the Skift. She should've like jumped overboard like. Yeah. Okay. Let's see. Brendan fitzpatrick. What stops you from pulling the trigger on Tyrian? I've never that nervous for that guy in eight seasons of the show. I also think she should that blasphemy takeout Syria. Wouldn't it probably would have been the right move. I mean, it is such a weird thing. Why not why not kill it? Maybe. Because maybe because she knows that he gives Danny such terrible advice. Yes. Definitely working for the land and says the whole time. Even even if he's not like explicitly a mole. Maybe she realized that like I mean to be fair like Tyrian is probably the best thing that's has going for her right now in that in as much as hearing is constantly telling Danny not to do a full frontal assault, not to just like roast king's landing. And he's been probably the reason that seriously is still in power. Okay. Let's see Humbert. Oh, says can this, sir? See baby exile. In fifteen years. We see him with a lion as lasting of the show plotting to take back his throne, which it again could sir sees baby live in exile, similar to generis turn the lie in to retake the throne actually that would be a really cool ending. 'cause it certainly would be true to the idea. Right. That of game of thrones. That like it's not like, there's a a neat Anita ending for war. It's not like you win a battle. And then then everything assaults. Although that was the case with the Nike Inc. Yeah. But at least in terms of the realms of humanity, it a winning battles just creates more enemies and more vendettas and more and more problems on the line. So that would be really cool. If sir sees that was kind of the end was was like services child raised in exile. I've Harris in terms of the people that told each other where we got all these. People knowing the secret like I want to know that who made the worst moves of telling people, so John unquestionably bad till aria and Sansa did Sansa get duped by Tyrian when Tyrian talked about like, well, your brother wants told me he's not a stark now. I don't think she was. She's like well funny. You should mention that. Yeah. I think I mean, you know, what I John definitely made the right? It'd be what made the worst worst decision like since is not invested in keeping that secret. In fact, Santa's invested in having that secret public. So John who actually wants the secret to be private like for him to tell someone who doesn't want that secretly private is pretty stupid. And then was it. A big mistake for Tyrian to tell virus. No again, like I've been maybe actually that's interesting because like Tyrian is also invested in that Seger being Presbyterians applaud or he he likes to talk through things. Right. He's he's like, you know, he's one of these like post show quarterbacks who likes to analyze everything, but isn't really necessarily great like implementing himself. Anybody like that? Okay. Steven anything else that you want to say from tonight. What do you think of that various Tyrian conversation? Like, do you think it's so clear like who do you think is that would be the better king? Because from my perspective, they're both terrible. Great queen. Let's three different reasons that John is terrible. He doesn't really want the job. I mean, do you want to have like the reluctant ruler or the overzealous ruler? I theoretically, the idea is you want the person that doesn't wanna rule right because they're not going to be like crazy about their power. But I mean Tammy has been I mean, she's been pretty good ruler. Right. I mean, maybe she hasn't been the most effective ruler with marines. You didn't do a great John? You know of quelling dissent there. But she her heart was in the right place. Yeah. She's a wartime ruler. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like that. She doesn't really get bogged down with the details. And I think that in terms of ruling, I do think the devil is in the details. Yeah, they have to show you on the iron throne. Well, that's the thing is the only person who cares about the grain stores should be on the iron. That would be. That would be a pretty good ending San says as Queen. Yes. I don't know how we get there with Santa's Queen. I guess that would have to be if you wanted to like. Chunk. Well, it gets screwed up. Because of if anybody does John's like John would have to be installed, not as a gun target carrion as the person who is the conquering hero of king's landing then put onto the throne and then having then being taken out, and then I guess Sansa would be his next air. Yeah. That's I guess that's a pretty unlikely scenario also with. I it has not been confirmed that the and John have are having a baby. I'm presuming I thought that was a big presumption. Yeah. You don't think that you don't think that the nurse is pregnant? I don't know. I don't. I don't think. So I don't think so. Okay. I've never been more. Sure. Something in my life. Oh my God. Really knowing snow at all on the line for that one. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. So. Hashtag Danny is pregnant hashtag Danny is not pregnant. Yeah. I like it. That's pretty good. All right. Steven fish back. Thanks again for staying up late. And I know that some of the chatter asking, hey, what's with Stephen is. He have like a quiver of arrows going on there. Stephen had shoulder surgery last week. Yeah. So I'm still recuperating and. But you know, and that's that's it. That's all there is to say about it. Okay. All right. Steven feel better everybody. Thank you for joining us here. Live get your questions in for our game of thrones feedback show when Josh and I go to break down everything from this. Very exciting episode a lot happened. And a lot is set into motion for next week. We'll be live again, you could send your questions in GIO t at post show. Recaps dot com. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast post show. Recaps dot com slash I tunes. Take care have a good night. By right. Tonight's game of thrones recap. Sponsored by your friends over at true cart. Every car comes with its share of stories like that thing in your bumper. 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Castle Black - Game Of Thrones Season Eight Episode Four Review - The Last Of The Starks

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1:35:33 hr | 2 years ago

Castle Black - Game Of Thrones Season Eight Episode Four Review - The Last Of The Starks

"Uh-huh. Welcome back to another sold of passes. Black Steve blackest podcast all of this. I am back. One of. Eighty three ivory. Toffee RAFI Lord, light savers and girl has no other Nick. And we're geared begin about this. Interesting episode episode aid. Episodes four of thrown titled the last of his before we get started. Let's introduce our hosts west you is your boy DJ. I mean, aka Ben have the means the butcher of names the fillet man little little Twitter fingers. And does this great joy here on Casablanca? But a lot of things of. They did. But before we get into that. Hi, everyone is portion Patterson hurts aka be may service guys, aka the three eyed raven cloth, aka lady. Hi garden AK special this episode. Barry me Nath with my ancestors that shouted your cars because they knew death was better than bondage. Yeah. I'm so proud of you. That's that's classic castle. Black give yourself a Pat on the tweet that when you might want to tweet that put a little TM behind it. But but yes, as you heard folks, we're back here to discuss as I was supposed to say season eight episode four of game of thrones. As you know last week, we had a few special guests. Thank you again for coming through. Thank you again. Everyone for supporting us. We see your tweets we see all the love and support. We see the questions that you guys are sending in please continue to do that contact at four nerds com, including going to fall, nerds dot com. And leaving a comment there on the sidebar. But again, thank you so much for supporting us and for supporting patriots. We see you can I say something about last episode before we get into this because upon rewatch and after having some time to just the episode. I have to say that the long night wasn't as you know. Still very on some levels, technically impressive. There were still some issues lighting some re tha that, you know, cinematographers five years. On bowl is they say, you know, feel a little, you know, just listen to the people, but just the writing and some of the choices made by John snow supposed supposedly in experienced military commander were extremely suspect. While they lead to great visuals. The fact that this man was trying to send his dot bracket hordes out against let me finish. It gets an unknown enemy lately. Yes. Against an unknown enemy without having known short roll up in light his weapons on fire. Prove once again is it's man is not to quickest, you know, ship on the boat. It's not the quick on the uptake. He's not the only person making military decision. Both rocky and the unsullied military leaders who are sitting for them in the war room. So they're the ones they're not your final. General. Okay. But generally, you don't meet I call both of them foolish. My thing, and we're gonna not me on the black book. But legit like if you are I feel like there's both it goes both ways. Like are you going to be like their? I are you going to be like because that's what I'm gonna say stand up and say it if you're gonna just let them put you in position you're gonna let them put them in a first shame when you're a soldier. You're not going to speak. But he's on this. They had talking about grinders. And like Ray weren't. No. Like, there's there's three main dot rocky writers that are Danny's like generals for the death rock and there there's great worm for then sullied. So they are in position to argue their case, it'd be where not because for Gaza what they say to the narrative the narrative John make the decisions. Yes. And then there's John said this sounds like a great idea, really. Stan L comes down to the writers deciding though this is what they wanted as the visual for everyone to see people of color up north whenever they went into battle for the long night. So actually turns down to yes. Colored writer's room and skate this show. I don't want. No people on the show. No more. Fuck that the way they be treating us debt. She's saying in the bright is talking about fuck this show at this point. When it goes people kind of we don't need Joe. Hey. Agree. Always put more people have color. Yeah. In writer's room. Plus again, you are missing. What other time I'm not talking about writer's room? I'm talking about characters on the show. I'm talking about black people and giant you need to. Thumpers? Great numbers. Gotta be there. First they were there to. Yes, I agree on on by people rising. That's not what I was talking about. Anyway, light Bemis said I actually had agreed to that point after second. Viewing of the previous episode episode three. The winner Phelps though, I it was some stuff that didn't hold up water. But that buzzer beater by aria, certainly still so really happy about that before we get into episode four. I just wanna make a point for those listening. If you don't know ready Monday shit by the time you hear this. You will be on the day where we are doing our game of thrones live trivia event with the group trivia AD. We're going to be at what does it tackle Electrico electric clock in the city? Don't ask him what the addresses glues, your friend. But we will be there starts at eight. Make sure that you are especially if you want to join in on the trivia and joining teams and shit like that hit it up on event. Bright, just search trivia. AD castle black shit pop up. All you can also just look at our time line on castle black pod on Twitter, and you'll see it pop up there. Go electrical, trivia, tacos and game at bones. And it is a live event. Brought to you by the people of four all show and castle black pod. So you need to be there. As was trivia AB. The need to beat. Or you always ask. Where can y'all see us in person here? It is facts that we have a nice little gift for everyone who shows up. So the only way you're gonna get this. If you're in person so lease hit us up. Let us know P audit stuff see you there. And now, let's get into the episode. The last stark her. Yes. Well, and it started off with you know, funerals funeral pyres for all for all. You know, there will be some fire and some burning bodies. Yes. I mean that's by Bernie. I mean, it'll be you know, and you know, we started off with Danny, you know, crying over Giora show more motion for that man and showed it she ever showed him the way he wanted to. I actually. Probably tried like, oh, no. I don't actually fine. He says the Bill you forget how many times she said that nigga way. Remember, she was like, I don't I don't fuck with you, bro code need. You couldn't means two different beans. I couldn't means like if I great worm Musani like she couldn't do nothing. But when she said, she couldn't no she didn't want to love him the way he wanted. Because. To am. I. And I'm good. Unattractive boming nothing when it comes down to look to find a ways. I don't know about you. But I've gotten over that. Why does she have to she's the Queen? She can do whoever she wants to get a while. She. Things happened. He's to happen. But yes in this opening scene. We do see the dead. We see the funeral pyres for the unsullied throw. And also these quote unquote main characters that have that have died. Hey, some people are saying these ain't real main characters. I mean, even though the. Have a little liquor for beyond. Right. Like damn. But I've seen it on Twitter. But anyway, yeah. In addition just want it continue to add that John is, you know, he sucks as a strategist. But he's a hell of an order. He poverty look into a career switch. It would probably be. You know, maybe public speaking some shit like that. But interestingly are maybe not interestingly you saw the matching of people and their loved ones you saw aria. And Barrick he saw sonza and theon John Liana Fressen power Leonida damn I really didn't wanna see her dead again. Her body. Anyway, also regret see sonza buried Dion. With the winter fell sickle. Dr will so which wishes fitting, you know, he according to brand anyway, he had proved himself to be a good, man. Good. Boy. Morning as trying to Tahoe said, you know. It was like no it's time to die right now. Yes. This the significance. The implications of San's giving him this pin? Just you know, kind of disclose out literally put the pin on the on story of folly coming the stark, all we cry criteria. Literally. Putting the on Jesus. Hey, man. I'm just calling symbolism symbolise. Any thoughts about this opening shot from anybody? Besides that this is where we are. We also saw ghost. We can. Really? Move. He's at the funeral. He showed up. Did a few people and peace out and came back. This is the first time we've seen him injured. Like we actually see what? This bit of blood. He was. It was like raid on his on his muzzle. But also on his parts of his body wounds and his ear was gone like his ear that doesn't come back. Some shakes are Wolfer. Right. All right. Yeah. So then we move on from that place to the dinner. You also John at the dinner when he gives us independence. Now, the independence already said that that was John being I said him being a great orator. But not a great strategist. That was his. Oh, but does your point. You wanna call it independence day speech? No independence day happened before the battle. This is like the I don't know they they never give a speech after this was. It was funeral though. So I made sense. Yeah. Arm spoiled game. Okay. I mean, nobody's Mondays Russo said Monday, you know, Blackwood absurb speech. Lis lis? Oh fella. Why crime? I should've been Hawkeye. Wow. So this the sat ask funeral gives way to the dinner scene are the beginning of the dinner scene, which is very long seen. Actually, I think is the longest thing entire episode. If you really think about it. But. Gandhari pops up and says first things first, where's my? That I am just like unbothered like you knew she was like she just like over like, she's the one who saved the whole day. And you don't see nary pizza her Africa FINA Rolex she's chilling in the cut. Nobody knows where she is. Everybody's dinner drinking libations fellowship and all that stuff into your point Arias noticeably absent absent Brig injuries. Looking course, focused course, he stuck on that. He was Padron. Elizabeth sage a bench only project. Second thinking like ooh storm things, you know. I'm related. The pointing right. Besides in the whole of death. Rocky the first sign of trouble that you see. At least in this episode is Danny basically trying to get rid of any potential competitors. And making injury. Lord of storm's end. Gandhi. Pops up the first ball when she starts off. She she Genry poplar. She goes who's you who's man's is this new who's man's of this who you who walk with? And he said, you know, I'm technically, Bradley and son. Did you see Jamie's face when j ain't no? Jamie had that we bathe at gift faith. He was. So so for some people she dropped the bomb on them. But she was cute. So meet here. Everybody. Was giving like a social. Like. Through the river. Yeah. So. Y'all are freaking mess. But yes. So you know, Gandhari explains who he is. She says we is at this point you like L, where's she going with this? No, we're good. And again, like I said she gives him the mantle of Lord of storms in which does accomplishes a few things one gets hurt in her mind anyway, out of his hair out of her hair. Because then not that he was ever looking for the throne in the beginning. But to say that you know, he's too busy being Lord of elsewhere. So he's not gonna wanna come at thrown or try to claim even though he's he's technically could have at least by by blood claim on throne. Porsche shaking her head. Wait it. But you say weighing like he's like anyone wants the throne less than John. It's probably injury. We'll get you says he don't know up from now, you don't know how to use a fork badly. So you know, that man from the streets on nothing. Tyrian in John. I noticed they gave that look to her John John's is still a little idiot. But they gave kind of a look to near. It's like they knew why she did what she did. At least. That's the way. I. And then Sahibzada looks at all that and realizes what's up after that. So everyone's being quiet. But but understand that observed made. Yeah. As we sit here. There's a really interesting conversation right here with Tyrian and Davos that. I really didn't. I think this might have been the writers and the people behind the show being like, I uphold, you know, if you were still wondering about the war as I as oars, I whatever so high high, you know, I mean that's much attention as the writer day to if you were thinking about that. This is the end of that thought because that was like only did they officially it. I'm not sure, but they were talking about the Lord of light and stuff and don't ever show what we need him and stuff like, and like what a lot of people have already said is that, you know, the main people who talk about the Lord or light are Barrick and Messiaen. Jay wore now faded so. Yeah, they're not going to be around the talk about it much. And this might be one of the last conversation we hear about it. And sadly because that was a big part of the book, and that's also some of my problems, and like a lot of people's problems with last week's episode was that a big part of the book like as you saying everything else is this whole thing. With the nineteen. And it's not the fact that kills him is the fact that he did. But in the end the books to be fair, the nineteen is not in the books. But so yeah. So the long night. Yeah. Powered by the motor the light. We don't. This thing where is only shows up in the lore of the Lord of the light. But it's not that Holly shows up in Lord, light, LOL's, more and more. That. That's it's connection as yet. But we don't know technically it could mean anywhere just like L west rose, they have the others floor. You know, as far as we know that others could be and some other land, and and the song, ice and fire. We don't know. Here. But here it was kinda anti climatic for Nike and the whole white walkers have been established in the very first five minutes that show, and then it'd be done the off. Yep. Mad about that. Big man Datta. But yeah. So I think that was the writers also saying, yeah, will whatever kids and that was the end of that. As on to get some more that signs aside. I team. You know, she doesn't trust Danny or Danny's intentions with John nor her attentions with the Rome at large, and then you get drunk ass torment where I was sitting there like shut the fuck up torn because he's like that every single time. He is. But and I know he wasn't doing this purposely. But he was just stirring, the pot because he's out there talking about basically extolling all of John's amazingness of being this guy who's come back from the dead. And he's this. He's dad, and you know, came six and shit like that like really pouring in on heavy and Danny right? They're getting the screw face stank out. But also, I feel like if you look good Danny through this episode like that table, she's very much like how she was when Santa like embraces the on an episode is who go she's like, oh, like everyone got people's where my people like she's very much like, okay? Like, I can see they're like these alliances are very strong relationships where m- my she just. Gave up jor who's one of the only western row. See people with our who was writer like literally writer diver her. She's Tyrian sitting over there with his brother and bring and like having a good. I'll chop it enough time he him by her various like not even beside her to the side. So where her people's and so she's filling very vulnerable in that moment. Like, John even looking for her in that moment. He's busy like like laughing at his friend. He's busy trying not to be king. But I agree with you. I have that same up survey shin that like she has no more true allies, at least in her eyes. Yeah. You got Gramer them. But her dwindling her the west of Rosie people that she needs to be right? Diplomats are like, you know, people who could work for her and for her inbetween like that's who she needs right now and the best you can do is to raise up a bastard that no one relieving in north knows about right? And to me when I looked at her face throughout that scene when she really can't ever location. I'm my daddy's sitting there like I'm gonna have to give everybody the fade because at this point. She. She's not feeling like she's part of anything. She's not connected to any of these people really like that's that's part of her like as much as people are saying that she's not learning how to play the politics game. I think the her making gingery award was her playing into social. Yeah. This is what the west originally de whenever there's a battle. They divvy it up, and then they make they raise people as they help to them. So she's trying to play the game. But she's also seeing how vulnerable she is. So she's going to be on that line for a lot of this time. I noticed very various rather seems to be have made some sort of a lines with Danny and potentially we find out later what he's really trying to do. But I believe he is in his way as he says protecting the Rome, he's always said that always. But it also can potentially come off as double crossing that other characters as we go on but his care about any other character. But not at all, they don't they don't serve the rim. Then he doesn't care back. And there's a lot of great conversations in this whole, you know, during this whole long seen that you said like, there's brand material. We get a good moment. There might live in the past year. We get a good moment that reminded me of people from a wicked. I mean, wicked and divine the comic book will nurses territory DO who seems to be the best of God. You know, everybody's like, oh, you got the best time ever, you know, you outta everybody because everybody should have fought. And he's like well having slept in thirty days. And I hear everyone else's thoughts constantly. It's like, okay. And your superman brand, you know, and brand is like, you know. You don't want to be nice, and it's still hard to divorce. The idea that this is not brain. I mean, even though he says it every other time talk to him. He's like, I'm not brand. I'm not brand. Oh, no. Yeah. So it's hard not just not just obviously the characters their his brothers and sisters and things like that. But us as viewers like we really cannot divorce those two, but he's trying to tell I'm not this guy. All used to think. I was I'm annoyed that everyone keeps talking to him. Like he wants to be loaded. Wonderful and like. I don't want. Nothing have no wants or needs. I'm good. This me about say like laundry to my full feminists, anti patriarchy rent like these men keep saying that they don't want these power physicians and they're capable women. Right there. Keep China give it to the people who are not qualified not interested that and don't even came back to re. What I just and we know why it is. But can Newt like like, I think that Ben you mentioned this last time like someone said someone had a penis, but that didn't make them a fit relate. I can't remember who is a member that coming out. And I'm just like I mean, legit will various -tarian had had a comedy show. It's not enough. So. Yeah. I mean, you know, I I come down pretty much hard on every man, I think other than I various, Jamie. Of course, the hero this show. Yeah. Everyone else is pretty much trash, but there's some other great beans. There was a great hall bat to drinking game. I call it Tuesday had drinks. But that goes back to when they were into ten when -tarian Braun and shea are in the tent before that bid battle on the plane saying got that cut that kinda face. That's when he got the hammer in the head, right, okay. Fell out before he even got the being the battle. Okay. It's high way this is not battle the backwater. This is. That was first in the first bid battle of the show that they don't even show because tearing it's not the hell out. Oh, falls out. Thanks barbarians run into the bat on a hit him over the head. He cokes out into the night before he plays his drinking game with saying where they guess you had to guess something about the person. And if you get it right bay drink if you don't get it. Right. You drink. Gotcha. And so that's the game. They're playing when he's sitting there playing with bran, and he guesses that she's a virgin. And she gets bounces instead of playing the game. I will leave to like how you put on my business out there in the streets. But that's the game. You know, like, I don't care my Tyrian when he met shea. He's like your mother's a whore. And she was I drink. 'cause no my mother wasn't a whore. Right. I understand for visit the game still sell blooded. That's. I just love how much torment were in his was in his fees. Saul, jamie. Sewer Email opening his eyes and coming out. He was crying beefy. I mean, you know, solved real quick. He's the communist fees. It's going to see Brienne walking around when hairdressing gallon. I'll tell up after Jamie, and he's going to be like that. Hey of that man after everything he'd been do. So is the big woman still here. He's always going to be in his illness. When it comes to brand. Quickly, you know, found himself some Solis tonight as they say some chips. I found companionship in the how this episode because he wanted no part. And none of this bullshit at all. He's a psychologist. I don't want it help. You bought it is. That's our leave me alone. And he looks he looks super uncomfortable around fire always universe like candles and little flames. Always just like he just like, I don't won't be here. I'm only cope with this because I'm drinking 'cause if I weren't drinkin- I would be be going. I can't. Yeah. Gang during he also had a brief chat with sonza and called her little bird, call bat to one of my favorite all time favorite moments on game of thrones on the show is when everything had gone to hell at cane's landing. They thought that what's his name standards was about to run up in that join at the battle blackwater he comes to San's and she's all stare to look at him. And he says look at me, and he is one of the best speeches ever on the show when he says look at me, I'm a killer. Your brother's killing your father was a killer. The world is made of killers. I thank you bring. Every episode. It's one of the greatest moments on the show, and he's like you better get used to looking at killers. And then sonza comes back and listen small fucking dead in the eye. It's like I'm not a little bird anymore that the look dead in your face 'cause I'm king. My daughter asked me what a real killer was at say me. There we go. Do what you say. How'd you how'd you finish them hounds? My main was like impressive. What else? Oh level up. It's like he's the house. He's like, okay. I mean, see coming, but you know. I would like to own as something that, you know, you use the symbolism revenge, your she also made it be known that is her tribulations that made her stronger and brought her to where she is. And why she feels that you I'm not the person you could count out the pitching anymore. Like never was. That's also a problem in a way that like being grapes made you a stronger person like. Strong being the pond of on of the writing. At this point. But you understand what she's saying, yes. On top of rape and everything else. She's gone through like just having just be a part of that entire system. Really like, I don't know at year ago, and then to come out and and be ready to change the world in her own way. So it's things that are always liked to disagree with writers. Who said it the only way to make a care to stronger is to have them go through terrible things necessary. Yeah. Especially when it comes to like sexual assault. And rape. There's. When it comes to anything. But especially because women are especially in fishing are treated far worse. When Trump's things that nature men who right? Don't seem to understand the difference in someone being stabbed versus the difference and someone being raped those are two different things. And people don't understand that and fishing just seems to us that a lot. I do agree with that. But I also do agree they care through. Sometimes do have to go through terrible situations end. This is a terrible fucking world where my man theon had his dick cut off, you know. So it's like. It's like onscreen and then afterwards Hatcher man ramp you sitting there. Heaven grand old I cry not during and after looking at gifts never date hurts. To date. No. So that's why I say this show too sides every story if I'm saying, so let's get on with this story. The worse. Me my man gone. So there is there's a cut away from the dinner scene where we get into what you find out where our is our area is mining her fucking business shooting arrows doing whole hook. I think and Ganjam haka Genri. Well, listen, he made Gandhari is our us Hawkeye. Do that yet? We're not doing that. Don't even go there. I'm not doing. I'm going comics. I would say to you know, because Hawkeye used to mess with Mockingbird. She meets has mastic and she rush. She shot an arrow, which just making a easy correlation. I mean Hawkeye does serve getting back to where we finally do that she's doing that injury is setting himself for the worst L. Is I know how predictable soon as as soon as any made him, Lauren. Upi adding his face was legit. I can marry her now I know I saw I was like. Learn nothing about our your gene told, you know. The whole time. He did that like like, you don't know her very clear with him. She was like all she was cared about was like yo fashioned me a weapon that's worth my skill. Let's get down like she wasn't worried about other shit. She's try to tell people in more ways the one that that's not her pass. He's not a lady, she's not this not that. She's aria of former Princess winter fell. Now a note now, no one now like whatever you wanna call her facet. She'd never calls herself. No. I'm are you stark because she can't vanity Houston assassin. She's an assassin of the no one star. She's like I m stark, but I'm also not gonna live up here. Like, this is not my place, no deaths her place, but you know, carrying out death yet. I don't think it's don't end in life either for her, you know, about I'm not putting money on that would make. Sorry, folks. Sorry. Ryan seeing it. Funny to me like I'm thinking about that same weekend we talking to aria, and for some reason jagged checking this. So let's get married come with the remix fast skit Mary. And then she's like darn good turn to. What about them? Turn down and she brought him back up. She was like she was like, I'm gonna kiss you. So you think it's good? But we're gonna come back up. Foolishness because we I'm not doing you did your good boy to him and said, but I got to get back to treat it and quite literally like what a beach. She just she just turned around went back to so many call bags to the first sewed again because once again, she shooting arrows once again, she was like, I'm not a lady you Jack as I said this in the first episode injury. I also like come back to the first season whenever she's in king's landing and her father's like you'll make a great lady one day. And it's like, I'm not that's not why have time she keeps saying like you keep seeing her having these moments throughout the different seasons. Like, I am not this. She's like whenever she sees nightmare. She's like, oh nine Maria's, not just not this. So she she knows who she is. And people keep trying to make her to be something. She's not and just like Brandon away, and everyone just like she's like, I'm not we're not who who you think we are all over to these dogs are much more intelligent than their owners, very true to real life. Folks. They're tethered. Mary was out. But. Are you on the same like brain level? They're both. Both. This before I will offset as with the die artist Stark's tethers because they just seem to have some other plans in place. I would say that this Starks Dr wolves covers shit. That's even worse. That's even worse. Big words. Wow. This even worse. But in good news. The ended up in pre ends room, and you know about that. Wrote a story. Go get him slow Jamie Lancaster, drunk green ivory watching the wire. And Jamie was like mid Nolte like showing up drunk some women. Was doing shayna. Not what I thought was funny about this scene was that? It was interesting even though he was drunk. I still think he was very cognizant of what was going on here. Jamie was like, well, I think he needs to be drunk because this is the first time he's having sex with someone who is not his wife that and he's like I got to be I can't I gotta get myself prepared to not have sex with my sister. No. I mean, he was eating junk is. He was getting junk 'cause they vibe the army of the dead. Let's be clear, but he had to keep drinking while he was. That thought because you're saying in order to get with like, no not it's about him. He's own system out just to finish that he's ever done. Thought to finish my sentence. I thought I was I thought it was funny. I thought it was funny that before anything started he had to make sure he understood the status retirement before he. To see Pete that he was like, so what about your boyfriend Orman? Thanks. Whenever dude is into girl. And he's like, I know she ain't into the suit over here. But I'm gonna make fun of my few checking your check. He's not checking her. He's checking the dude he's like, oh, whatever I checking I'm saying checking the status of like, he Sean make anything to you not that that would change. What he how man -tarian this toll torment having the dream, sir. Drink away to pain or stepped in with that one that he'll tonight. It was that whole thing was clear as classic so yes, Brandon shaming was this pent-up is this been six or seven of pent up sexual frustration between them to maybe like five. Season three. I think is whenever where they where she had him have whenever there, they hang out. So I'm gonna soon as he saw her fight. There was something I mean seasons years worth of sexual Asian, and we didn't get to see any of it on them from mostly on her side. I feel like she was unwittingly like she'd never like sports actual feelings before. So she like she didn't know what she was like dealing with internally. And he also is like he didn't want to betray, sir. See so he has that he was like riding that wave of like, oh, I'm not feeling that for her. Also, she's a big woman. I'm hot whatever, I'm feeling her. Like, he was fighting all those different things is go ahead. Got into the like actually feeling out how he felt is this show equitable and showing when people want to make love to each other versus when people are taking things rape. Are they equitable showing that because I feel like the stuff that you may have wanted to see like this. You didn't get to see. But then the stuff that you absolutely don't want to happen whatsoever. They're very explicit with this. I'm just curious. If my thoughts proper even over. Well, because I'm back to that. But I I just wanted to put that question out there because I'm just like, I just I if it was not equitable, obviously, that's a problem. Like, I don't like this world's people people always trying to put our modern day morals onto this world of pure gangsters. Like everyone in this world is a gangster or especially at the higher levels. Their supreme gainst and below that the describes survive I feel like the only thing I think of I mean, I feel like we. Yeah. That's like a study. And it self seeing what how sex protrayed in the show. But I think that when I would like to see more of is like like just like general consent, and like like relationship building like what is that even really seal out of that like, what is attraction to the next. I know what you're saying, whatever. But it's like, we don't even see that alive. Have you ever see that's impossible into showed? I'm saying idea of of different consent at every moment is twenty nineteen. Idea does show, but it shouldn't have to be. And it's a twenty nineteen show. That's being filled that disrespectful to to writing that. That's even worse to put like these. Territories who have no idea about twenty nine t more hours to have that come out of their mouths that makes no. I'm not saying just overtly throws up in what I'm saying is there's at least show different kind of relationships in a way that we're seeing playing out. Comfort. You know, I want some. Was good. Right. I'm living in. I'm I'm like, I see what they're taking some criticism of like all of rape and stuff and tried. But they're also this like this now. Charity. Some of this a little over anybody wants to respond to that, please. You can add us at Nestle black pod. The next teen. I have to face Paul and rubbed my eyes and all that other stuff all the other sounds and scenes of exasperation because this is when John and Danny have that talk and Danny begs John to keep secrecy on his true identity. For various reasons, but she pigs in a he turns around and tell her it'll be okay, baby. Everybody will accept you. And I will always be king and all this other nonsense, and we're like, John if you do this is a red, and what does John which we're going into? Oh. John's honor gets into way of his logic or any semblance of logic so much see if we wanna put our modern-day morality onto you know. On modern on on this nonsense on this man that everyone wants at John snow is some kind of great leader and great person. But as written on this show is a moron and pretty useless. I just say that whenever Tyrian various, I know we're going to have the conversation. And various who would you rather see on the throne, and I'm like? Like what what is John Dane think he should be a keen? Anything? That starts dumb ass kid strikes again on himself. Like, I just don't understand. Yes. He's a good showed eager. He's leader for a group. Like, you know, I just let them out. What's that? John snow and things public. The first the first catchphrase for John snow was, you know, nothing. Jon snow, you want the know. Nothing. Johnson home thrown enough. She called it. Boy, he said. He said shit years ago. Yeah. Her voice. She was so right. Read him for filth for his life. Like, it's an ongoing phrase for him. So true, so true. And so then, you know, we get to the war council. Of everybody, you know. War room. Yes. Every is always a warm. See where it's like, okay. What you wanna do? They. Here's a plan to narrates. Nah, I'm gonna do. Every time every time we see a war broom plan, even if they go to plan the plane of it works out for them every time you see more plants, but what is John Wilson of boss whenever Leinna. And when I was linen and the Dorning, and every time we see a war room seen. It always goes awry this plan was going to fail fail. No matter what. So they explain that basically thing has occurred and a half or more of their forces decimated. Why did you pick note sustain us? Isn't it called the decimation or happening the Infinity fade? There's there's many ways to say ain't got no motherfucker for the measurement of it is a thin OSE. Santa's crass approximately half of the population Thanos has occurred. Danny doesn't like that. People. Don't just wanna go in that bitch like Rambo, you know, people are like go. We might need to solid snake this because it's this certain ways that you gotta be Schettino when it comes to serve. I think our point. No, that's not what that's the point that made Danny because I no that's not what I'm saying. That's the point that's onto made that for Danny to counter, you know, like other people made the same. But go ahead. What signs whenever his sons said they need to rest shoes. Like Daniel bit. Y'all weren't y'all was not going to be happy with me rest in my troops. Whenever y'all needed help doing this whole shit that now you want me to wait. No. We would be happy with you Chilin in doing right now. Resting your troops. The trauma force all it was. Joe choose your own came out in the pretense. You trying to save the world. Do that because here in and opponents? That's dragging. She dragged me for here. But again, I feel like the best person in this whole thing is aria because are yet when Nate Wednesday their sect Brett stark talk moment. She's like we did need the troops. We did come and science still on her. Will we didn't need are like, yes, you like why are you denying the actual truth in front of you? There's a like there's clearly saunas on her crap. Jammies. On her crap. And is like, nah, like, let's figure out how to make this actually function. I thought it was funny that during that whole back and forth of that war room. After Sonson said what they said, John like the them like fucking it up for me. Like, he just gave him that. Look like shut the fuck up. I already told her that she was going to be half. Her bet y'all go. This is John. That's what happens when your net starts dumb ass kid like y'all. And again, I'm making this point y'all can't be having these conversations before y'all go, and friend of other people and have these conversations it's like they have. And then what the group consensus everybody trust each other other than the peop- of you know, they don't trust John right at the giant that let are ya and signs looked at each other. Like this Nick is quite like this. We gotta talk we gotta talk. And that's why you know. And as you mentioned Porsche, how they have that conversation outside like are you explain well once again, it's all about assignment of blame in so many things. But always look honestly at the end of the day, we needed everything that we have. But guess what? Now, it's time for family. And this is where I wrote down in my notes, it's commission points dumb ass. John. Ed slummy. Oh my God. Yeah. Because this is how he Sohn's Musonda. Danny implored him. Do not the mowing. The mowing employees. Wait, I'm banking for the first. Out. She was like this is the way we can do. She she know she banks. She said I've never been. She said her beta I've never for anything. My said, I just want for this whatever this is just full showed. You the way that we make word on. It's like she's like, I literally laid out the by now I lay out the plan for like, I said, she implored is a synonym of big. But she implored John to not tell these real identity. Do not tell people you can't do it not as she knew them better. Who she was like, you know, what you can find an area you'll tell aria, but don't you to do some? But not just that wall. No. It's. Secret a secret secret secret. But also yet that but also Danny knows nobody fucking rocks were her like that like they is particularly the family wax with her like, they Rockwood John. And she does not want something melt, that's potentially two things be another a challenge to her throne to split him and heard up because that's the whole thing. She knows family is stronger than anything that she could bring to the table. And if you have your family, like, I don't know, I I don't know about her anxiously my clean, and she Danny knows homegirl. Sounds don't trust hung. Yeah. Are you doing whatever the fuck? You wanna do but does not trust our point break blank, period. And she knows that there is a bevy of people behind that that will backup sauna and John before they ever even breathe about Danny? That's what's happening. So so your point Johnson idiot. Would you would you? Call them on Twitter. John O a class a buffoon. Saito. He's the class able from. What is he doing this scene? Once again us up the game when there was no need to give the game like people. Breath. It was your choice brand literally said it shows. That's too late and brand new because once once he says, it's your choice. Everybody should be like Joyce brand a lot of anything anything. But but see brand was already letting them noted your dumb ass already major own choice. You know, you about the tell these mother fuckers you can't fucking keep your mouth shut brand is nothing about that. Strange. He just sitting there watching it go down. He's like, you really wanna know are already know house runner go down. But y'all don't and I'm not gonna tell you shouldn't. Yeah. The coldest thing about that scene. Is John's dumb as DD say his own mouth. He was like, I got something to tell y'all your brand you. We. You do that. Away for in brand tell you business. Why can't you do it? My guy any kid in trouble trying to get someone else's take for him. Mommy, where we take your the freezer, man. I don't know what. God. So again, this again, the whole thing about honor replacing logic is just knows no bounds. Because now some people are you with us. They'll say why would why should John keep it a secret? What are you guys say to that? Why not what does he lose? He didn't even know. It was a thing in the first place for like, you know, as I like, okay. Imagine what's Sam told him and John just kept his mouth show. What would it changed everything and save lives? What do you mean how because Danny wouldn't know? And then say bad lives in terms of where we are now four, but ain't happened yet. So I I really I want is. I think that's when the unmotivating is that people are saying that like she's going to be so consumed with her revenge for sir c and this next episode not gonna keep it from flooding, but it's going to be so consumed. For her getting back, sir. See that going to be stuff going on in the background that signs. It's going to take advantage of potentially. So it's going to be really interesting next. Couple episodes seeing how the the board of the game gets played because I'll roll the dice. We're seeing how these different things are going on around the board. And I'm really interested. I I'm not I don't feel like anyone is super predictable right now, some people like people are very much out card. Yeah. We show especially now that the whole board. They they table flipped aboard. At this point John doing that flip tire fucking bored up. It's like anything again anything several other flipped boy about this episode is over. Tyrian and Jamie, you know, have their talk where you know, tearing is trying to get Jamie. Give good says the ain't heard a good story about Poon ending years. Not only that he hasn't had any for years like for Tyrian. Like, yes. I've seen in the past two seasons. Been. I'm just went drink his body. His body weight down every day. Why discussing this not too I'm laughing because Brom popout crossbow surprise motherfucker? Diet. Nobody up north like let him in the the game. Like nothing. Have you been here before? He just knew exactly which room to go into winter fell. Like could you imagine like they should wash? Checking every where to God wasn't on our you'd be like up on his neck like sitting there watching sitting there watching it. When Jamie was about to about to get him. Some when Jaime and Brienne brand about you know, about to lose her virginity. I swore Brom trying to come in and shoot. Because I just show. Then this is how games like Tatyana. I predicted before Brown was gonna just come up and Schubert been home Ono bras. No master assassin. He can't sneak in this bomb minutes later from smoking. Yeah. So so so basically Bronx a speech about how lords and kings are made. And then basically cuts the deal with them. Like, look, I saw dragons. And I know is a rat for surgery for them dragons, this is okay. There's when we have to dragons. And so. Porsches laughing away from here. His deal is basically look what does he say? Oh, if y'all win and make me Lord of. No, no, no, no. Valerie, I wanted to check is the way that the math works, and this was his mass great. It was hilarious. Isn't that? Because he is. So I got on the table currently a river run. I need you to double that double that. And was like, I mean approximately high garden, and it's like wish it a high and a double he led a monopoly deal. Look, you know, how you do. And I let it on park place, and it's like thirty hell tells audit but pit let's do this. What have you let me go three times? And they don't want us here. You wonder why it's like boom check this out like really, but. Yeah, that's what he wants. And they say, okay, fine. Because otherwise you get across to the chest Bryan explained my he's not fucking playing. And listen to me bronze the most consistent person when you really think about he's probably one of the most consistent people in this entire series. Like, he's always been about his coins. And he's always been about getting ahead. And he's like, look this is what I gotta do and playing people to get what he wants like he's like, I am not opposed. Like, you told me you got pockets. They told me they got pockets, which one's going. I want just taking advantage of what he can do. So I get it. I just how you play your wage negotiations game for real. Yes. But after that, we get back to Arya and the hound it, you know, one of the greatest buddy couples in the history of cinema skill pal. See them to Butch and Sundance kid just happy trails name, a better do write their name them more. I kinda do. In the hound leaving. But are making the statement that I referred to earlier and persona. I'm not coming back. And I told y'all I this it's and it's like even like Jamie who I considered a hero to story. I do not consider him making out of this alive who hound Jamie. Jamie, jamie. I I don't think she's like I'm going out to like I'm going out in a place like Loy Arias fully prepared to like live her life going around has named people there, but I've been finishing her list because you're still on that. Finisher list, and you know, you're finished, and I also felt like during this inner change because they they're skipping out of town on the most people I'm just like are basically ghost like the only difference is she don't come back to help. She's like if I'm gone, I'm gone. So is that before or after the scene that John is the double dummy in decides? Like, oh, so the people who are most loyal to me who will have my back. No matter what I'm send them away from wherever I'm going so torment who literally like die for him goes to this coming, hyper. You're right on time. He sends them away to gather. And I'm like that is one of the like dumb dumb dumb. John send a wave northbound north with leaving became he right? Ars told him to stay on the volition like. All right. We did we came here to sin ghost within that was stupid. Hitting his rationale was for he belongs up north his he space shit. I fucking all goes gonna go wherever the fuck goes wanna go you don't me Judah say taken which goes do what he wants to do and get pop out if necessary. So what is that going to like, what's your feeling Popper another landed? This is all suggests like go pop out of place that you didn't think he was gonna pound. Propping up in the dirty streets Kingsland Crips when I'm dragging bone. You'll no no, no, no, go sad to go. And also the budget needed. I I know that's what it is. But I'm also just like that's dumb because ghosts has been ready to lay down for John so many times, and he's about to go to the place that cut down Ned stark, and he's so much like Ned stark. Why would you give rate of the thing that's gonna make sure that you live through at least part of it? Because like you say go Stolz where he wants to go, and it is point Joses. I you just sent me into the battle in the darker. So sad. My. Thawed. Look the him like, bro, you send me. Away. You couldn't be more. You're like Abraham be more like a home. Homebrew? It's you know, you can have more. Abraham. I'm talking about he's, you know. So I'm like, he's Abraham you talking about from here. Just wait anytime. Oh my gosh. We go to Sunday school so bad. If you talk about the bible, John snow is like what's that? Lot's wife who keeps Turner back and turned into salt. I think I say Joan because he got eight. Wale. We're all heathens here on this show. Of course during this exchange as you mentioned winning with psalms. She she's predictor projecting. Her problem for John? She heard intuition is ringing crazier Spidey senses are going off. And she decides to tell Tyrian the truth about John's identity because not less than thirty seconds later, at least in screen time. We saw her swear that you would not or maybe a minute later. She swear she has never been loyal to John snow. I don't understand why people are trying to play like salsa cares. She does not hear about John John's dumb ass at there and say, y'all got swear. And they looked up. I said I saw thanks especially without me. No, she's crossing the him. Well, she did beat she. All right within blinked said, you gotta ain't saying shit. Yeah, believer. Yes. Yes. It was like, yeah. She have waiver in her voice. She was I it's once you already decided to tell the narrow dumb ass once you did that it was over. You can't tell them there's and it's bet this to not not tell your family and your family, not to tell people who they need to tell the Narus try to tell you and don't do it. And we know once a field what a handful, but they say a handful of people know the home worlds, I wish people never the godfather in the book, it's something that's not really in the movie, and that far people don't get it is the code wider, mafia succeeded for years was they live by the code of murder, which means silence. That's it. No one never go against the family, never say shit. That's it. You know, simple. It's a simple thing. But people cannot live by never say a damn work and other big things to me is if you think about it sunset has a stronger alliance with hearing, and then she does with her cousin slash used to. Thank he was her half, brother. I mean, she's known them longer. She's known John Munger, but she learns, but she's. Hung out with him. Marsh? She came from a place of not liking John in the first. So I mean, not really when you're not to like. I respect Tyrian more. Congratulations, salmon, Gilly, they're having a baby. Oh, yeah. Nobody came. Old town had to about bringing in being pregnant, and I was like, oh, do they make armor leather wear that like would be formed battle-ready? No, it's time to the savage show for a minute when you got a baby in the belly. After three months. So yes, I'm true. What are they going to old town going back to the old town? They're not going to sit it out. He said before he never wanted to be amazed or anymore. Anyway. So I'll town is where to Dell as that's what I thought. They must be going to his lands south. They're similar the region. But he said it's Harley land back hill. This what it's called horn ill. Got a sword anymore. Vet him is that? Doubt. He he burnt a good Valerian Troy, but somebody else about a whole. Oh, I guess they don't need anymore. Right. If you sort of here bus grapefruit fight. Oh god. We're getting now into the thick of things which is this the beginning of where I start getting pissed at the show and everything that has to do. And this is why outbursts in the beginning of this particular episode castle about the show when it comes to people of color when I mean, the characters you get an open also some of the worst foreshadowing, oh my God checkout pods Twitter for our foreshadowing theory. You get an opening shot. Beautiful opening shot is so beautiful day sunshine in your hair. And all that stuff. You seem sandy and grey worm embrace embrace holding hands and just so happy were them and be alive at a first time out of the racist north, and who knows how long and guess what the only negroes for thousands of miles in this white ask war learning whiteness. Technically, some of the unsullied are black. Yes, there's others. Yeah. Most of them are dead now. So. They're not the only not the only I mean, the Aubrac eager only have two hundred. They're they're they're dying people all of them slaves. And now we also find out that various also known about John. Maybe he's always known about John. Here you told him look talking about like sheets, and you were talking about bad foreshadowing, you know with. With Ray worm Amazon speeches from before. But I was talking about this moment when tearing is like we'll maybe seriously just chill. Those all two seconds later. Narrator thirsty. Kill them all like on really. And that's the things he was like everyone is gung ho and ready to and they even brought up how like. Yard took back the iron islands because that was a big deal because they. Not even by anybody for the door. Tell me who Dorn isn't even know during nobody had prior any printed. That's thorn have hands. Like like is there? Something about to happen. They sent an elephants which one is it because if you're not doing any of this shit doesn't matter it doesn't matter. And that's what they try to also say it's like, that's great that you say that you back me. But you send any troops might guy. You know, you send in anything. That's you know, really lethal and deadly fucked up like a scorpion. Maybe they'll bear little bear. I got to drank. Oh, don't. Yeah. Abou- that about the score fy one of the saddest things every time a dragged is on this show. I just touch much s because it just hurts me so much animal control on Danny. She don't deserve mother fucking drags. I can't say that this is I cannot say it hurt to be free at this point. Because this time it was like a tame out of like literally nowhere, literally. And it was also like these mother fuckers like how blind arby's bastards, you know. Okay. Like, I just so full fine. Linda dragging Santa John you and someone had mentioned this also give you look at the talking about proximity something they weren't that high in the Dow. Now, let's look at animals in general like in a real world. Right. A hawk flying above concede or ground below. So it can hunt. A dragon theoretically can probably see far because that's fine. But no, the problem was they were obscured by landmass. It was open. It also cloud. Angles that high. They were real flat right by the ships. They were not hiring to see. Pat restaurants is a flat world, right? So that's why I'm saying I was joking. Those far enough. Where is why you don't do? Disney skits in the middle of war because should've been training for this moment. Danny's up their whole new world, isn't it again with Rigo Andro God, I just knew they were safe because they're gonna dragon stones on a war at. Yes. And you're never safe. Scouts like. Were they were operating. No, they didn't. And you know, why they were operating a pretense? That was the only ones was stupid. They were the only ones in the open open water in the ocean that nobody else is coming to fuck with them straight. Golden State Warriors deserve to lose just loaded through one. The you had deserted lose. So we see which is and this was very shocking to me and cast out loud that we see this fucking. You're wrong kill Rageh. What I'm assuming is killed. Ben Ami has still I not killed. But I showed you we showed you that scene. Several. We've got chest. They want to press three zero one one the first one I did harm the first one took me like it just really hurt me. Because not only did he take the first one in its shocked me. But also, let's that he just kept flying entre jury now it's like bra it was. It was Vicky. It was rookie all over. John and that happened. Bad. Rick just his name is Ray Close. Oh. Ocean water, which many probably translates. The OSHA which meant he just kept going down because he probably can't breathe because he got shot in the nit. Remember that some people say, well, maybe a Maistre. Sure people say, well, maybe Visseren, look, listen all the time. So wish for the night king. This is the moment. King come on up and be like raise one. I'm just like Lazarus the know who we go brief theory that maybe revive because Visseren survived a shot in the neck. Well, miss ruby. Not really. Really by dragged him out of the water. Then it was the better hope here is that somehow someone had dragon egg and they slipped. It up knows. Fire's earlier Nepal's. And then we just gotta keep thinking that she blew it three to one lead here. The only thing that made me think that for a second was that the nets. So when you're on was looking at cloud comes out, and he looked shot if drogue on I would think you like fuck now. If he gets ambushed like, maybe I'm thinking, it might be drug on but in armor 'cause it was Saini because they're. Kombi compi goes with wings. I'm telling you. That on going to South Korea on a Pegasus that's gonna be. That's that crossover Alvin waiting for this is so foolish argue jumping out. That's what. Yeah. Somebody put together. Yes. Oh, so you're on I guess this is back last year or two years ago. When you're on the guy who plays you're said, hey, he's you hate him. Maybe referring to like once. I don't hate him. Because like I say it's bad writing to me the bad right into. They don't have a scout ship. If bad right in these drags chancy this fucking coming that they get caught by the same damn thing that Brom tried to hit them with and they dodged the before. And they should know about this. So they should have been training Santen. Why have all this dangerous because of the golden she has and other things she has a superior weaponry because they up that little bit of fleet that they have that advanced sleep. But they say that, but that was smart planning on the behalf of Clyburn to make the same weapons that they want us to take out the dragons also be big enough, and like what like Heff hang ashes take our whole shift. Yes that was very smart play. I was actually very cool scene to just from Matic protected. Hey, cinematographer, racket, actually, see what's going on today. I think it was cool. How you showed the? I point of view POV of like when he was trying to get away from all the up shit on the ship. It was also funny mazing that ended like at the fifty nine minute of it. So -tarian jumping off the boat and almost didn't hit by the by the maybe it hit about a mass. Okay. Our moment. It was also like a rear redo of theon. Yes, whenever he went out 'cause he almost got hit by a big plank of Luke's. So it's like how keep doing these also to saying the same Janke thing his black. Backwater also win a what's his name Jamie fell into the river dragon because that ended episodes an ice water. Could that could have potentially been the end of this episode of this episode only been our by. So that would have been to ending. Yeah. Blackout like, it was the that would have been the end Glenda. Yeah. They definitely did. Go Walking Dead. We knew damn well hearing wasn't dying more. Now. Everybody come on. We talked about the devastation in gray worms face when they they roll it on the beach like Normandy Sunday, he's into the skiff meaning little getaway. And again that the first person view like this if anyone's ever pay like battlefield games like that. That's what it looks like it's just like shit, just come flying. At you stuff is exploding upper down, and she said they wash up, and we don't know where Sandy's and you're on those he's he's swimming. Like he's about to go to the sea. Can you see a few different ways of devastation? You see that in great warms face when it comes to masonic. But you also what peeps. Was they did show Danny throughout that process after one under and all this other stuff, you see it. I mean, you you seem glimpses of this is the beginning of episode. But again little by little you, see how she slowly realizing everything that's ever really been hers has been there for her as being taken away from the find her piece by piece as the fine has been taken away because of her circumstances things like that. And also is interesting that the closer Danny gets to her suppose a goal. Yeah. The more. She loses herself the less. She's yourself the more. She loses mentally physically all this stuff. Motionlessly all be wear. What she says her goal. What do you have to give up dream? Yeah. So. So all this shit is happening. And we find out that you as you said Porsche, your Ron or Bennis mean said, you're on has MS. And when I saw that one. Before we get to that bad to biblical allusions. What does the main gain, you know, if you gain the world, but you lose your soul? Like there is a Sunday was sitting there. And talk about losing your soul. A light woman says you. About another white mean, mocking a black woman. She hasn't chains. Oh, what about that breaker of chains? Ha ha I ready fifty row. Something guy, sir. Sees face on the TV screen. Fifty three percent. Like, all I kept saying all. Once again, look at this woman calling herself to breaker of chains. Which is also. Yeah. Just the left side liberal, right talk conservative left side liberal, you know, both y'all problematic. But the fact that she's just like gloating about putting a black woman in chains. Once again once just been free cold, the only black home as far as I can see from the right? Ever interacted with her whole which line which begins this this scene in general just begun the descent for me in to rage because I'm like so after all dragon. Dragon. Different. This is different black woman myself in me and have our head down. We are. I I was literally punching I was like I can't control my boys in the hood. You were punching there. I was I was like like my fist power. Like, I just what do. Two boys. Head right. We've come to the point where some people argue, maybe she never had anything more than this. But you've reduced to a plot point. No way ever having more my point some people say she never having. But there have been many cases where they say at least verbally. She said what she needed to say. She's had agency. Yeah. Verbally and she did have agency. What she I chose to be with Chelsea she she can choose to be what's he has chosen. She choose this certain things in the beginning. She was she chooses to tell her. Last. I mean, okay. She has the last word, and it's great. But who is that the last good thing that she does is reinforce her allegiance with Danny when she's at winter fell with sunsets hearing whenever they're having discussion. That's like the last year. They stay. And then you kind of face a death and then again twice. In the face of death, new when she and grey, worm we're discussing what they would do if they live that it was over for when they started talk about going to the summer. I'll was a it was a. It was over. But I was foolish enough to thank the, man. Who's going into the battle is going to be the one who does. No, no, I knew both of them. Both for y'all got to go. No, no. I knew like I say there's a lot of foreshadowing a bad for shadow Annetta pursued. But who else try to make some? So I bring bran got knighted she done. Now, she got mistakes their goal. You're going to go out with Jamie or something. Yes. To believe this RC, pregnancies though. No. Because now now she's telling your Ron for this job, baby. And we I think you or someone else then I mean, someone has had had predicted that she was going to just assign the baby to your on are still believe used to believe she's practice. I don't believe she's fine. She's pregnant I still don't believe she's very I think she's lying to you. Then I love that people are like she should have just like I'm back on Sunday that they're like she's like she should is grabs her see happening growing. But it never happened. Never have Mallon is quicker than you think. He cut in her down together. I mean. Yes. Yes. One way or the other. So that ain't happening. But yes. The mountain does cut down. She was sitting. She's sitting literally on the edge of the wall. There's no way she's getting out of the situation. She's in king's landing. She has no allies. There's no one there. She is going to die like as soon as forgot captured. She was going to die, and she even grabbing thirsty and jumping off. That's you know. No that is not happening. That's not happening. You know, just to make a few notes about a couple of the happened right before the. Disastrous. Ating disastrous rage ful decision decided to do with the sandy we another war room scene happens. You know, you really you end up getting with various interior who having this conversation about Danny being tyrant or, gene. Need this honestly, five oh nine even because they had they've had discussions and other seasons where they did talk the marriage of her being clean, and it was it made sense. And I liked it. They have this discussion that they've had this season episode one this season episode to sorta driver murdered. They should have had this a long time ago, and they're finally here. And I guess I mean, technically, they didn't notice. Tron difference maker. They had nobody else envisioned, but it shouldn't. Right there Sohn's. No, it's. Better than better than Danny. I'm taking Sahhaf has to. Darius is the Papa pope restaurants as he says protect the round is the from equals equals protect the Republic. And also is and he makes it clear to tearing that I think he basically a he basically confirmed that he's going to put an assassination hit on Danny? It's like some point very very soon. You think that's mystery of that? Oh, yes. I took that from that conversation between various Papa pope of west arose Tyrian. I took away to basically told -tarian I had this nation plot. You hear a boy, I'm assessing her kit ready. Yes. And Syrian was like are you Tyrian was trying everything he was like, well, don't you think he people that stupid card again maybe rule together? I love this comes back to that awful image that was on Twitter and internet. Oh, it's gonna be Danny and John ruins here. Little fascinating that. It's the reality. It's show watch it. But it just keeps saying, oh they could rule together. Like, no. Also too dumb asses. Make some smart. Man. Like some of this was also shaved problem shades of of a US presidents too. Because you see two advisors in the back talking about how the rump should be run when you have suppose, it king and Queen who are who are in some ways just figureheads if you have people in the back really making decision so at the same time shade there. I love how like as soon as various started talking about the mayors of John being king, treason and then tearing. You know, that's that's treason like Rex. But like legit like Danny were. As she had better stock of who she had she would have a little finger in her Corey. And they would have been listening in on the station. All wondering when I thought daily walk in word that's going back. Kind of. Sunday was kind of sometimes like the person who would be like, hey, aren't you didn't have a right here. Also anymore. Also, never more coke. The raven. Also before the deceitful scene of killing Masan day. We also see Jamie Rianne going at it again or after after point out the dreaming put that ASA sleep twice put out to you. As. Out to you that Jamie, Jamie will never not be James a monster for doing this to bream. And that was her virginity. Bre like brand said stay with me. Just be with me. And Jamie, finally, Ben, I'm mean longest time. Jamie is not a good person. Anyway. His bills knowing about himself. Yes, Jamie is on a path of redemption. As I've said many times, this is this what you call classic. He woke redemption ark Spinney spending, this classic roic, redemption. Ark Jamie will dies I've said before, but he has redeemed himself and flash started pushing my man out the window and give them superpowers. He said it. Say superpowers when he said, that's a Brienne. He said I pushed the child out a window could use it as his base choking. I'm a monster because I killed them. He said that he say. He's done all of this. I received this. I've done this. I did there. Now when green. To now. And he also he didn't say yo also save dry asses by killing king. But you know, y'all winning remember L he used it. He used that to make his point of how much of a monster. He he didn't say I killed the king and save cane's landing. He really said I killed a king. He said I killed my cousin. He didn't mention the king. He mentioned the king. Oh, well, he should've said what he really did save Kane's Landon. But you know, no, no that he knows he's a monster. And I'd like I respect that. He knows who he I tell him. Color. Here. He's a hero even even know the actor called himself here on Ellen bear we go back to catcher two different. But the character is on a redemption story, and we'll see how it all plays out. Oh, we know that. But. Oh, no, no. He's already my Tyrians. Always here. I need to have a nice like little like chat with the active. Like, you know, what you're my hero word. I will phase. So after that happens again, we get to this ridiculous fucked up scene. And this is the part. I mean on tap everything else. I still haven't expressed my full range, but on but in addition, let it out. Why did they have to have grey worm watch this where else are you going? My point. Wait. What does he have to watch on top of everything? Do you think? He would choose not be there. We're not. Of course, I'm turns of writing I mean because we're all sea-going meter. Choose he's writing, and he has to be there has to what would you choose? The do didn't need to see this Sunday. Didn't need a die. This. All true. Yes. But wrappings happened to all like once again. I mean, the thing. There's anybody litters many colored right? Point them in the war. Very clear speeches about going. Gaza. I want them to be the one I feel like all the messy stuff that people have done. People of color should be the ones that get the happy ending everyone else. Let the wasting. To everybody listening. Okay about the shoot. Whether the jokes are not about about the color skin. The worst the point is it's because they're so few. It's more pronounced things happen to them in that way. Especially when you say when you bring up the item like you said Porsche about Surti saying this line about breaker chains talk, which induces images and thoughts of slavery. And and literally born by two white limits. So it's just like it's so many whether the writers are not obviously didn't they weren't thinking in that way. But that's my point. And that's I mean. At the beginning of the show of this episode of this podcast, where he said why we need more riders of colors in the writers reducers boosters people everything runners caller and not to say that necessarily would have changed episode. But I think that would have been more. It would not having. No, no, you never know. I'm driving. You never know. Tomorrow than when like. Token. So that's what I'm saying that it's this much more pronounced when things happen to at least they wouldn't have met that phrase breaker. Right. And especially when things happen to the only black woman on this show. She's being used as a problem between two white women who have an argument about their little random ass war. Like, you said it really has nothing to do with black women. And this is just an aside, and we'll get back to to closing this episode. But black women are barely in fantasy barely barely and my family. I don't think independent in the eighties. I don't mean stuff. That's clearly coming out and internet seller. Talking about people talking about black women right now. Yes, black woman, particularly and I'm saying that because this is someone as a fan of fantasy and Saifi at all that stuff. We are so marginalizing infringes in general. So to see this happen on such a huge on a worldwide scale. Let's be real this game of thrones is a worldwide scale. It's even more damning and hurtful I grew up playing dungeons and dragons since before I even read comic book. So if anyone knows me, that's how. Ep kits and for the most part most of my characters longest resemble does one dude who I saw who was kind of brownish, you know, but I consider him Polet because I knew he wasn't. But I was like, okay, that's the best. And then later on they had drizzle who's dark elf. And after that I saw to making a lot of care dark elves. Because it was you know, but that's the best. We can. The colored else evil. That's the best. We can give jokes. But it's also like. Yeah. Like, we see we see what you're doing. It's not like, oh that was just like this one character. You can't say that one is always like the only actor like again, legit legit, everything about her everything she represents this. Nobody else like her was like her on this show. Only one that also represents something as we said before this is yet another Turner, snapping whatever's going on. Vannice Danisa, poor brains. Wow. Because this is STAN did Danny Danny Thanos, Dan. Because this is that time because once again Masan was the one who even more than Tyrian represented that you'll chew side banning go, you ain't gotta be like this and hike Matic. It's going to be able to be like appeal to her in a way that was gonna help her see like yelled their f-, but you don't wanna add up there, and the one who had come from that the personal caller who'd been a slave. Who is I yo- I've been there. I don't want the rest of the Peens land into get burnt up. Like, you know, 'cause I know people like that. I was one of those people she said that oh. Oh after seeing them, she's like car, and she she gives that basically that last command or last order last wish to Danny and Danny has officially broken. You. See I filling spaces legit like is it Ron or whatever that's all players. And I give he's like sitting there. And he's looking like a word, and he's like the best way Alonzo Mourning that you're on the castle bland pod Twitter. But yeah, we're he sets what's going on. I just think just I just interestingly enough just that scene was good too was interesting to watch from a break. Now perspective to literally see Danny sna-. You see the snap Ning ham was she snapped her bodies. And that's a Reagan fell because she was ready to go pants on the ships with drogue on issues like drove on better. Flying for me over ten ships. -ships got at least one. I'm good. Family. She saw her face her face. She's been breaking. Thanks, keep falling. She keeps breaking Masan NATO. And she's like straight up nebula in this piece. You know what? I mean like you seem you know, look what I've been through and in quite little pieces of self and quite literal terms. We basically end with the understanding that just wants to see the world burn. But the only thing that I don't like about this is that they made a big point to say we want the I she she agre agrees that she I she's like on board with all talking about. Let's talk first while we'll blow it's not gonna work. But she's like, the very least though at least people will see that. I offered her the opportunity as she spat on it that'll be the most I'll give her. But the problem is the only witness exchange are the. So it's like we're spread. This was supposed to. Word spread. But also, my problem with that one was once again like people gave her eighty of vice because tearing this fucking point Jesus Christ odd, you have to realize it's not about that. He's the worst literally just like I felt like Tyrian. He should I really am annoyed. And I'm really hoping I know they're probably never come me. But you know, part of my heart. I hope we see in the books that bears in some is still on Danny's court because he's actually useful. And he's a good counter to the Tyrian thing. But it's not gonna matter because in the books, even this is how trying to go down as we see like because that's one thing. I will do them. They've stayed true. Especially with from the beginning. Search is not going to fuck about everybody here in because Tyrian finish their everyone has to begin search. He is not going to an from beginning. Like, I've said they've been subtle hints. That Dany is going to follow this, Danny? Is going to have power to join the corrupter absolute power, Donna Karan. When you have these dragons, you're going to have an issue, and she keeps saying I wanna break, I wanna break with that are everywhere. She goes she his keeps that we ought to say, it's the power. That's I only the power is. What's crafting her? I think it's that she's losing herself. And that's what's corrupting her as do with. I amass all this power. Now. I'm ready to bra is literally like she's falling apart like an front of our eyes. She's not the purpose. She would could be father fell apart too. I mean fees into what I had said earlier about her slowly losing pieces of herself as not as the season continues as like her main people who have her back, the most love her the most like imagine like everybody loves essentially just being killed and even more taken away from you. And you have no support I've been predicting this for a while, you know, to Danny would turn into the mad Queen or whatever I still trying to goofy to waiter going about it. Quite mad Queen in a sense of you just lose it for no reason. Nobody came to the loser for any reason mad reason his reason for the times talks about it. It's like, he just no. The show's not doing a trail of this. How did he go med bridge version please locked up for a long time his daughter died while he's not the he was on the throne. He. Throne for about like fifteen or twenty years or whatever. Then Taiwan was his hand had all the money. Everybody was it's high when he got this strategic general strategy Ella, blah, everyone went to Taiwian whenever the requests. Because the king was busy a bridge over. Once he gets tired of high when being getting all the recognition stuff he tries the fires high wind he puts his Mafa making Jamie kings guard that means Jamie, canton here at the winds all happens. They do a battle. He gets siege. He goes crazy under the seas. So jealousy. Made him mad jealousy. Made him made him start doing erotic things with the court, and we see the shades of this. When it comes to Danny when she sees everyone loving, John all this stuff. But then they take it another level by killing miss ending killing her dragons and continuously to take take from her. She also makes it very when she was only have one again with rose, no shit. Maybe should've stayed in the east. And then I mean back to my king. He he broke down when he couldn't trust anyone. And now donaire may not be able to trust. Anyone may not may not. Tant you done then trust. Trust is not the you've been. You've been worm. That's probably Lou how green white. Yeah. Episodes credible. Everyone everybody. It's a slaughterhouse nets episode. She wants house with them scorpions on the on the balanced life. I shouldn't do a one hitter. Quitters? I like the way that I mean, I saw one dragon or not one train that one was actually like a streak took that one out. So she feels like she knows she knows when she can do something. So she's probably like banking on like I can figure out a way to fix to get through. Another thing is when that preview something that we're not expecting it's coming. So I'm interested in whenever that is brought to be some more twists and turns. Because maybe you're moonshot dream of being another dragon egg somewhere or like somebody would have someone with a dragon secretly, right? And how big. We didn't know about and house is going to be really the Caribbean. Dragon like. My other dream of dragging bombs the pirates of dark water dragon last balls come in handy. Name Morris coming you know. We know who's coming back. Cal drogue on them, man. He's coming back by one in the sky wave out vapor. We don't know what the hell's about the happen. So here we are. Now at the end of episode four what are the predictions for next up? What's happening violence? Fire blam bled. Fire and book fire blows a lot of five lead. Vengeance here. A lot of a lot of just immediately burning down cars trying to. I'm trying to I think the first let's have with John John's coming up the kings wrote the job was on his way over on kings road. He don't know what it is happening it. Well. Well. We'll see we'll see the interim. Being a dumb ass. Yeah. If once again, if you want to join us this Monday night, or as soon as you hear this because I know your press play is soon as drops, we will be a taco electric. Oh plane trivia with trivia AD, the castle black pod family will be in the house me Tatyana Porsche Tahoe. Who knows who else? Oh, yeah. Right. Who knows he'll be there? You just one thing you will know that if you show up you get a special gift from us all of our love which to figure out what the call everyone. But I still think little crow's still works. I wanna like. Well, then again, it's a call to John and. Super spots. Don't wanna do. I'm like something after the navy, blah or aspire island somewhere on the people summer isles calls where castle black lives on the summer isles. So to all the summer island, totally what they're calling. Cool as an advance. Like, I want to name it something similar to that. So if y'all have ideas, you know, throw Mattis Twitter, especially if you suffer islanders want to be part of the trip. Got a better name. Make sure you guys are asleep E ON event bright just hit up trivia AD and our Twitter pages castle black pod in order to get that link there. It is a free event though. So come through get your tacos, get your drinks have fun with us. Wait, make sure you guys. Also, if you like what you hear and want to support us financially or have the means to do. So please hit up patriot dot com slash four. All nerds there. You'll be supporting the entire fall nerds nerds brand, which includes castle black pod for the thousand one people asking where is castle black on the podcast, whether it's Spotify Google play apple podcasts all of that. Look for four all nerds. When you look for that subscribe there, then you get castle black word open all kind of other great stuff. And thank you very much. And we'll be bet. Two more episodes left. Plus some more things coming after Africa's black pod. It does not stop ever still be much more to come and anything else before we get out of. We got ta hose you can't make a drag.

Rockwood John Danny Jamie Lancaster writer aria Tyrian John snow Twitter Tyrian Porsche Nick Joe Ben Barrick Loy Arias rape Gaza Gandhari Ned stark Brandon
Introducing "Game of Thrones 2: Electric Bookaloo"

Game of Thrones The Podcast

24:37 min | 8 months ago

Introducing "Game of Thrones 2: Electric Bookaloo"

"That old bald move intro music for game of thrones Iran it's like an old friend. Yeah it's old friend that stab me in the back left me for dead and three down a staircase. Threw me off a parapet gable style. But what Fond Memories? What what fought fond memories what Fahd River is Yeah. If someone is going to eviscerate, you want them to have a steady hand and know how to eviscerate. Sure you don't want someone who's never a visceral anyone before doing it. You WanNa deft hand. So. Who was the artist for that interim music? That was highway superstar highway superstar, and highway superstar donated the music. I'm just curious about the the history of them. Yeah. We we reached out to him and said, hey, you're eighty s thrown writer air thrown thrown wolf. He had different nicknames. It's super dope would love to use it on our podcast and he's like man that be cool and now we've been doing it ever since all these years later still warming the hearts and hearths of people over the world. So we're in the midst of a pandemic I. Don't know if you've heard. Have you heard? Did you hear that I? I have heard I? It's it's been my lived reality these last six seven months. Okay. All right. So a lot of people have developed hobbies over the pandemic and I'm curious if you've developed like. Making her gardening or something like that I actually start painting war hammer forty km miniatures but so far. The hobby mostly involves me forlornly looking at my boxes of plastic dudes and thinking Oh man what am I going to get a chance to put the next layer paint on? This. So on brand for you that I almost feel like you made that up just to keep the brand now it it's it's It lasts it's true I I have I have this little guy here who's just been staring at me why don't you pay me to pay me or look how cool I look how much cooler I look painted like I'll get I'll get there. The other thing I was thinking like that's pretty on brand. I could also see you like doing little miniature ships in bottles like that seems like something that would be about your speed if I had the patience for it, that would totally be my speed for sure. Who in next generation did that there was someone who did that Picard I think we just I think we are about to watch episode justed where he was saying ship in a bottle what none of you would not have you people I know Picard had a ship in a bottle in his ready room is just him and chief O'Brien hiker data warf looked at him like what are you talking about and chief O'Brien said I used to make ships in a bottle sir. So painting were Amer figurines that's what you've been doing this pandemic. would. You like to ask me what I've been doing this in the Anthony during this pandemic what have you been up to what what new hobbies have you have you branched out into I'm so glad you asked because I've been interviewing. Tons of literary experts about a game of thrones. And this came about because you may remember that you and I wrote a couple books together thrones I do remember that that put me in contact with a lot of academics who love game of thrones in a way I probably couldn't have anticipated lots people. Teach classes on game of thrones and I decided you know what I should do. I should interview everyone that I've met about a chapter in the first novel by George Martin, and so that's why they did. I go chapter by chapter through the first nine chapters of a game of thrones. And each interviews with someone who's read the book very closely, and as you know, I recorded these things chur and I'd like to put them out as a trial podcast to see who's interested in rereading a game of thrones with me in a few English nerds a game of Thrones Book Club with Anthony, at a bunch of. Heads we're yeah bunch egg heads were calling a game of thrones to electric Boukoulou. I'm also doing to Rewatch of the HBO adaptation with a Comic Friend of Mine Steve Osborne, and he's watching game of thrones for the very first time, and so every podcast that I drop, it will be a conversation with he and I about an episode from season one. So that'll be a lot of fun little bit of a show refresher and deep diving into the books deep dive into the books. Very. Superficial Rewatch to the show. Okay and Iran you're one of my guests you're gonNA come on and talk about Tyrians Verse Pov, Chapter One of the many reasons due to have been painted. I'm just too busy making podcasts. That's right. That's right. So what we're GONNA do is we're going to use the rest of this promo podcast to give listeners a little taste of some of these interviews. Iran, I do appreciate your willingness to do a little experiment with the old game of thrones feed and I hope that your listeners enjoy it as much as I did recording it indeed and I will make an appearance or on chapter nine tyrians first. Chapter. Looking forward to do. Feedback can be sent to book at Bog. Move Dot. com. Now, here's an excerpt my conversation with Dr Chat Carmichael. It's a great depiction. Of A man who was once a great warrior yeah. If you know what's going on By the end of the chapter reading it last night I felt like man not only his best days behind him any sort of physically in decline. But he's in this position where he's completely being played for a fool by absolutely every single person in his life. except maybe ned well John aren probably tried to do right by him. Yeah. Which is probably why John Aren had to die right so yeah, I mean he's sort of. He's a fool is how it comes off to me. And I, I think at a basic level. I don't even understand why he wanted to be King I. Think he doesn't understand why he wanted to. Yeah. I never was a job that would be that he would be suited for I. Think he wanted to be king because they wanted to win. Yeah. I think that sometimes ned among the fans or or commenters has gotten a reputation for being a bit naive and I thought it's interesting that in this chapter ned comes off as early wise person. I think. So early on in this book, he really does seem like the ideal father figure you know it's not like he's waxing on and reciting poetry or whatnot. Yeah. Well, he did he didn't want to be king. He didn't want to be King's hand. Right doesn't want tower and I think there's a lot of wisdom in that. It's not it's not. What you described as Robert wanted to win rightous sort of a dumb idea. What do you want to win what? To what end like what? Is it. How is that going to change your? Anyone are you are you are you in the room going to be happier for this victory? Robert's not going to think ahead Robert is not going to consider that question. He just he's I wanna I wanna be on the top I wanNA stand on top of the mountain with my arms up. The best in the strongest and the tallest, and I, I want to be the king and what does that mean I don't WanNa think about it. That's that's for people that count coppers. Exactly it's very foolish and so as a result, he's surrounded by people every part of the story he tells about his own life is deception even the things he believes about yes Liana. Dr Lisa, Wolf Work on John Snow. John is someone who is there by the largest of Ned and caitlyn hates his guts and sees him as a threat to her legitimate children, and basically, why would you bring a snake on an airplane? That's what's happening with bringing Jon snow home. He's GonNa, murder all the children and take over and you know she has a lot of contempt and suspicion of him and she continues to have that always. And it just seems to me that the system doesn't work unless everybody does their part Sir John in short order is going to choose to go to the wall and he makes this choice when he's drunk, that's another thing to think about it. He's at the dinner. No he's totally shit faced. He is really drunk. Talked about that he's a teenager. So drunk teenagers don't make good decisions but he really doesn't have anywhere else to go. That's right. He's making the only choice he feels like he can make. In a way that he can honor the system. Yes. But but carve out a life for himself where he's not being. Loathed at every turn by Catlin's wary eye right now. Right and this way we don't know we don't know Garrod Story. But it stories like this that lead men to the wall in the first place. Comic. Steve Osborne on dating other comics and bears. So I don't know if these two are going to get along. One one is like the biggest nealer in the history of nealer 's. Ones it's not about it. I mean I think that she might really enjoy. Killing him. Yeah. Because you know she fought Jamie Kennedy fell in love Jamie. Bank. or at least something close to that. She fell in love with The the night like she's she was with the night and the night like regardless of what you think of Jamie Lancaster I think any night that consider themselves to be you know devoted to the craft probably sees Jamie at the top of it right and you know so there's probably a little little bit of a star-struck component to it win comics date other comics. Right. That's a good idea by the wherever we never talked about this. Do you think for comments to date other comics? I've never seen a workout. I mean I, it just doesn't the issue is I mean you have to be a pretty. Secure Person I think to comedy the comedy community. Is a bit of a contradiction in terms because it's a community we're all in it together. We all kind of understand what we're each going through uniquely right. So but the other part of this is that we're all roth vying for the same stage time to some degree. And nothing puts it in better perspective than the competition. 'cause you go from like no I. Really Believe I. Want this person to do. Well in any other given night. It's night going man I really hope they bomb and I mean I guess that's sort of the case with competition but it's different than being like I want to be better than I also want them to do poorly. Is. They're also truth to the notion that in general comics are either deeply wounded or their neurotic or they've got some sort of. Mental condition that fuels comedy but in reality they're they're not. Not The healthiest people in the world, right? Because you usually have a tug of war between narcissism and self loathing which China it's a it's like I hate myself enough to be funny but I also think highly enough of myself that people should hear about. Yeah I can see that. So then you then you add to those people together in the romantic relationship chances are see I feel like being not being in that world I feel like it'd be better if those types of people would pair off. So we can. Out of the general totter. No, well, that is that's probably the best of all possible scenario. There's also the the allure in the appeal of the funny person that will bring other people to them. But so I it's it's hard I think to see people who are dating in the comedy community and not feeling threatened by or jealous of, and that's a real hard thing I think to reconcile. I think it would be hard for a normal person. Then that much harder for for comics. In this case with Bran and torment Are they I mean they're all they're probably they would be competing to kill the most people perhaps. Well here's here's the issue I think a lot of fans were. Going hard at the Jaime and Brienne. Possibility? And then torment comes along and he you know he needs A. He needs a couple of trips to hr first off sure and then, and then they kind of felt like, no, no, no I WANNA see in. I don't want torment There's no way. Jamie and Brian whatever gets well, and that's always been my i. My my pushback was always sort of like. I think Torma knows who he is. And I don't think. Jamie. Quite news who he is. Now, at best Jamie knows, he's the guy that will always love his sister. The thing. That seems to be the one thing. He's the most confident I don't think. That's GONNA. Be a hard hurdle to get over in in couples counseling. So I think I. Approach torment brand but I just don't think he's going at it. In the reading the right away but we don't really know what exactly tickles brands fancy. Well. Let's all right. Let's just let's just be real about this if torment is to be believed. He hasn't had sex with his sister, but he has had sex with a she bear. Yeah and Brienne has not had good luck with bears no which would seem like the at least a couple of convenience. You know I mean he may be like look. I can protect you against a bear. Real. Good. I can't promise the bear won't WanNA. Come back yet look I can't promise. It won't come back for you. He may he may distract the bear with all of his lovemaking? Yes. But then that just means she's protected from the bear but then now she's got to be jealous the bear. I think I. Feel like there'd be an understanding like. I let I, like the bears like I like the bears I like you like I like you. Here's an open minded about Ren Li I think that she could be open minded about torments bear fair. Yeah and again, if it was one of those things look I know you don't love this particular part of me but. I'm keeping I'm keeping you safe from the bears. Doctor, Jamie Smith on Ghost. Stories. Once referring to the what's be on the wall as GRUMP Kevin's yeah. smarts and GRUMP GAN's. Grumpy and this is what those monsters have become in the mythology choiced. A. South. They less. As they go north instead names in the north and I won the. Deceased was we all do that from time to time and I think it takes an extremely rare person. Tell me. This is the first time. I've ever said this out. Loud. So you tell me. From full of it. It takes a very rare person to have the same relationship to ghosts in the dark as they do in the light like like I don't believe in ghosts but there have been timed at three in the morning a-. Yeah we're the idea of I relate to the concept of ghosts. Much. differently. I. Just Watch a scary movie or whatever. It's like emotionally it's more charged for me even though I know it's not real I don't know if that makes any sense that fantastic I think this is exactly how it should be thinking of Nan telling her stories and maybe just people like men Menendez of north where they'll tell stories to the kids and in the south lie whatever by in the north things at Dhaka they feel the crispness of winter coming things are a little bit more real up there and right you can at one point a subscribe to the narrative. Or says, Hey, that might be a ghost in my room but by day. This I guess. Scientifically minded yes. That's right I. think that's right. I mean for some people for some people. Other people have no they're never up at three in the morning and they never scary movies don't change their the way that they think at all I I don't at least. I call them. Dr Jim, Matthews on Medieval. Vocabulary. Ally, what you're GONNA get today is the medieval in me coming out at a sort of as someone who specializes in medieval in history and culture, and particularly European history and culture. A lot of my thoughts and perspectives will sort of drawback an and make the claim either implicitly or explicitly that Martin is pulling from medieval both maple and and tax I can just give some insights perspective and then I. In fact, you're not just meeting Catlin in the gods would or meeting in the gods would they're kind of meeting you in your own academic placement, right? Absolutely. Right. So we're these characters in us that were mutually informative at this point. Absolutely one thing I can state maybe outside of the academia as you mentioned, you've got Callan who's from the south and and moves up to the north and one thing I wanted to say that we encounter I garden and its well to God's would, and she immediately reminisces and goes back and thinking. About what the garden looks like River on homeland and it's filled with redwoods and birds and newscenter flowers, and you know the that. You're from California and probably for what territory up north and. Seems like this denic paradise that has crafted in the likeness of Northern California? Right and I'm so glad you brought that up i. didn't realize 'til just now and I should have but in the ancient world, a lot of temples were modeled after gardens, right? Yeah. So so there was sort of this mirror relationship between the way that you would wall in a sacred garden and away that you would decorate the walls of a temple even so much so that the pillars would be painted like trees in the ceiling would look like luminaries and whatnot you'd have animals depicted, and so clearly, the garden in river run is not going to function in the same way. That the garden in a winter fell does of course that's obvious. But the fact is that here we have winter in winter while sort of a more ancient culture wherein there hasn't been a move to put the garden inside yet. Right. So even though the castles built around the garden that really functions as neds. Temple and Caitlyn really is an outsider and it makes her reminisce about the comfort of her own temple with the the crystals and the rainbow colors in the smells of oil and whatnot it just reminds her of how different her system of worship is in the south. So me about Kenny. This is something that's new to me. I'm really interested in this. Okay. So cuttings date back there is a popular that they used in English poetry and of is though poem that's most known for that. In its most simple sense. It's a compound word bail for example, in the popular Wednesday us battle sweat for blood. Are they refer to a corpse as being Raven harvest and the king was a river or ring bear run? So we see those all. Game of thrones in even in these early chapters, we've got blood riders have God's would. Which is a contra even the place names we have winter fell river run and just so I I'm tracking with you sometimes in order to delineate a particular idea or concept will you need to do is take two words and push them together to create a compound but not always have to be a compound I mean usually they're compounds I think you're spot on in the sense that by bringing towards together and forming Neil osias on our new word. Essentially, what it does is it it highlights accentuates that particular term and makes. It and so. I think we knew when you think about it neds swore it. It's called a great sword and he glosses that or he could have shortens it to ice and so great sort is basically saying it's like instead of saying, it's the most powerful biggest longest old sword the planet you know he can kind of combine that term and get captured the essence and wound compound word. Well, this is also an element of world building because clearly I mean, clearly, these characters are speaking a very modern English, most of the time, right? The narrators are communicated in a very modern ways. A lot of the time the trick is to build in enough of these so that you're hinting at an earlier time period, but you're not doing it so much that you are distracting the rest very true, and that is he martin is a master I thought he takes everything from the culture and the compound words is an easy way to do it it antiquated the text without it becoming impossible to read. PODCAST or a Ron Hubbard on himself. British slightly mechanical I'll take it whatever you just want him reading fairy tales as you drift off to sleep. Can he be my gps? All right. We will end with this question, any character and all of ice and fire. The character that your friends and family think you are versus the character deep down inside you know you. So it's a two part question. Oh Man I had there's no way can answer this without making myself seem like just a giant asshole com. We want. Balancing I think my i. Think my friends and family probably would choose. Join US this coming Thursday as author Stephanie Barbara. Hammer and I cover the prologue and comic Steve Osborne and I cover HBO Application Please Rate Review and tell your friends about game of thrones to electric Boucle.

Jamie Steve Osborne George Martin Iran HBO Ned Catlin Robert John aren Fahd River Sir John writer Anthony Caitlyn Picard Jon snow O'Brien Ron Hubbard Jamie Lancaster California
On the Table Gaming Episode 58: Michael Shinall and Fabio Cury talk v1.5 Update to ASOIAF TMG

On The Table Gaming

58:49 min | 1 year ago

On the Table Gaming Episode 58: Michael Shinall and Fabio Cury talk v1.5 Update to ASOIAF TMG

"On the table a podcast about board games card games and tabletop wargames. Welcome back to the table gaming episode fifty eight and with the arrival of one point five. We figured who better to come on the show to talk about these amazing changes the song of ice in five minutes game. Then none other than Michelson all the Simone Games designer for a song of ice and by the ministers and Fabio Value Currie the lead game developer so both on at the same time. Welcome to the show guys what's up. Hey guys I mean chase. You're the one that chose to use your second monkey pot. Wish on this when that's on you So how do we control all this awesome. But we're GONNA have to keep it. We'll keep it focused on these these new changes and man. You guys have really been working hard because there's a lot lot here to unpack and it all looks so good so I guess the first question would be. How long have you guys been actually working on this? What does I development cycle? Look like for something thing as comprehensive as this took a while to actually get the PDF's and everything generated so. I would say that probably weaker. So the facebook conspiracies true that they say facebook is like one dude out there on the Internet. But I mean I guess breakout your tin foil hats. We were if we were that efficient than wow. That's crazy but That's Fabio hasn't been any sleep. It sounds like that it must be. He's just been nonstop working on this. Are you mean even seven days of no sleep w insane so the thing is like these changes well. These changes are based in data collected since like even the first major events that took place with game so the game has been outed as point around eighteen months. We you know again. We gave them the game about six months to kind of just state and see where things were and then we started collecting data and going okay. Is there anything that needs to be like majorly revamped. Is there anything that we WANNA to pay attention to. So even that process started about a year ago you know just keeping an eye on keeping an eye on things And and just kind of going okay. Okay these are you know the trouble notes to like keep out for. These are the things that I thought. Were going to be a problem. That absolutely turned out not to be. And uh-huh just moving forward refining things since then because he always a new game system everything just to see and the thing is I even like that's just This is before Fabio even worked for us but you know we we had the general like okay. We don't know win. We're going to look at revamps but we know at some point in the future you're going to have to. I mean that's every game system whether it was going to be like you know in a couple of years when like a second edition or something came around but I'm not a huge fan of that idea. This is more select. Well we just wanted to rolling updates and everything. We did our kind of our test run of this back in May of last year last year when of the same on is. Is this. Your seamount Expo. Say Again Years Together for me where we did like the Mo we did okay. These are some units that want try some minor updates with and even at that point we were looking ahead with Hauer WanNa do things And what things we look at. And even then like when we're designing and revamping not not necessarily the revamping because we can't revamp something has been released yet but when we are doing more for factions in items that have not been released yet even then some of the newer things that are are coming out that have come out recently. Everything we're all built with you know one point five in mind like you know Fabio can talk to you about this the Barath which is basically His kind of a little baby eighty faction Because I have voiced my opinions of status in the air construction ground up with one point five. You know in mind so far you you can. You can carry on that. I guess Something that Michael said in the beginning. which was we always keep an eye open and once you do find something that you think might need fixing i? I don't like to say fixing but something that you could make more interesting. The answer is how question I mean is how. And that's I'd say the hard part like what do you change. How do you make more interesting without losing? Its original concept. I said how it should perform. What unit or guard or whatever it should do but also you know matter of you know we do keep a look on like community? You focused in tournament dad and everything but we also have to keep in mind forward with okay. This is how this thing is performing now but when we introduce a new elements that we know is coming out. How is that going to shake things up? You know like Scorpions for example we had to build them around the fact that we knew that. Like you know also your Iq was going to be a thing that changed. Just how they worked. So you know the data we get when those things were initially released is only carry so far when we know that these things are coming on the future of this. Commanders went to exist this attachments. Going to exist zest and the community can have a a strong response. Sometimes when they don't have that larger perspective so yeah I could see how hard to you know to get necessarily data on just the release of it without a warrant in that vacuum of Fabio. Is there anything you know. So you came on at some point during this development process for for one point five so if people you know absolutely love the changes. They should send their their emails to to Michael if they're upset if you're devastated by these changes you hate panic or whatever we should reach out to you. Is that how this works. I guess But please through two of official places because sometimes we get a overwhelmed with messages. And it's hard to answer everyone. Anything I say out of official. Because then it's not me it's simone saying it right so if it's in the forum than it's official location if it's in the FAQ mainly right because that's something. The whole team went through and read through and we all agree. And that's how. Oh everything should be accused official. Yeah exactly that's a great point though about Getting contact I think you and Michael have been such a great visible component for the company interacting the community But the community is thousands of people strong and so You know that must be really interesting. Sometimes and people like individually tag you or our messaging you I might be guilty of that arose and while by self you know not getting overwhelmed so if we want to look for like unofficial interaction that interaction would be best had on the semen official forums. Yeah definitely the semen forums are the way to go because there we like. I said once again officially well and so you these awesome updates and maybe we could jump right in even with Lancaster's Lancasters now. I know this isn't the case but I can't help but feel you made some of these changes the lancasters before you knew that I was switching over to free folk because when I was at packs last year I bought myself a ton of Lancaster. Habat ears because I thought that was gonna be like the hotness and I didn't get to play them as much as I liked like three four cumulus switched over to them but now we've got a small quality of life buff to to help us in their increase to attack profile giving look a little bit more teeth And I think with a panic changes like this makes them a lot more survivable so they actually are sticking around to do damage. You know any other thoughts or what was. We're kind of behind the decisions to upgrade some of the units like the Halibut ears or really any of them. The warrior sons. The king's guard any of those Lancaster units while I'll start with the little tangent. I'm sorry sorry but the help. A deer's main buff is actually through the charge rules and how they're assessed for charges actually GonNa perform a significant think significantly better. Oh interesting great point. Yeah so it's actually harder to get those little coin cases. Yeah but apart from that I think that the the help years of just their unit card that little stab of it is just enough to give them an edge and we'll see how it goes. I think they don't need anymore. Changing I interesting. How the deers are like? One of the best poster child's for the the type of category of change that they are in because it's just they were on the edge of like you could take them and they performed okay but you know okay is only a certain level like you want things to feel like really cool. You want to feel like rewarding for being taken and the helpers were just on the cusp of that they just need a little bit more and that's why okay they got an additional attack die at the ranks and plus the morale and that was all the changes that happened to them and I think yeah I think it's so cool is that I mean that's what I've been enjoying those people. You'll have had responses being like well. These aren't suddenly like you didn't make it like all powerful broken like I'm not gonNA take this but most of your changes I've found I'm sitting here going like ha like yeah I might take that now or it's like it's a thought process like I have to actually think through it. It's not like a it is unit got changed now. I'm always running that and I think that it really speaks to the subtlety of how you guys bounce things in that you actually made them balanced like actually get more offended units that are That are auto to include than anything else like I like making it so you can just play whatever you WANNA play. But I I have a deep seated issue with anything that is viewed as like well. You automatically take this and that those are the things that will I will target. You know more than anything else is auto includes. That's that's that's my hate word. Then maybe skipping down to one that is not necessarily an auto good but now it's like boy. This is a really strong unit unit with some serious upsides. Some serious downsides in the Lancaster Kings Guard so the king's guard are by design. And I say this from having played war games on my life. That's one of my favorite type of like to have is like this is going to make the focus the battlefield here and I will be fully honest When we you were making these changes to them this was purely something to make them more accessible? I believe it's more the player vase. Because we went really back and forth on these changes. Here and Fabio can absolutely test to this when we were doing our data collection everything and play testing on these because these east changed like changing that unit specifically made us really nervous because they're okay people are going to have their opinions on everything but they were before you like even one point four and before the they were really strong so I think in the the US matter. That's what's really weird. Is that people kind of overlooked. The king's guard and that's that's something something that is kind of like. Oh well you know it's almost like a mantra like oh you don't think the kings they're not competitive but outside of the US The king's guard are in some regions fielded quite quite heavily right actually like data from Singapore and everything. They have actually write a tournament winning army. And that's that's as one point four tournament winning without the the new changes that you put in the risk aversion nature of you now up people and everything but you know there are. There are a couple of different methods that we that we tested with the king's guard like playing around with them to shake things up. And you know against super happy ones we went to I remember like Fabio when when we suggested the removing the banner limitation that was actually the one that we we had two detest thoroughly more than anything else to see like. Okay what is what impact is this going to have and me well. Well it's because like it's like with so many things people are people look at like okay. What's the technical like worst case scenario? This is going to cause and you know they apply that as becoming the standard which you can't you can't do in your data flexing you have mediums for a reason everything you can't look at fringe case scenarios you. Can you always need to look at like okay. What's the maximum potential that this could be used for but you also need to keep Clear site that that is the maximum optimize potential versus. What's going going to happen in the standard play right? That's Bobbio problem as well acceptable. So now they now they can actually be healed and they get the you know the unlimited use of their banners there. It's not you know you don't remove them from the game That's going to be a pretty fearsome unit and it's so cool that now the the sort of the negatives of bringing Jaffrey you've got this like really like focal center unit elite unit. It's GonNa be you know tariffs and around the battlefield hacking into people fearlessly. But if you can hammer it down That's a pretty central piece to lose so I don't know that's another really interesting choice. I think we're GONNA see a lot of lists especially in the US Meta where like Joffrey now might be a your. You're you're you're b-list or your backup list bring offer you see what the enemy has and that might be your drop into Quite a few scenarios. Actually the thing is that Joffe jeffries drawbacks exists Mrs because his plus sides are very very strong year right. And that's why you put drawbacks on things. Of course it fit his flavor as well would that that was not the main reason and the thing is the Lancasters. Have the tool. Set to mitigate these downsides and that's what makes him very dangerous I So that was a tough choice that we did have to work a lot on but it it's in but I think that's such a cool for matic unit these guys. Are you know legitimate. Tough guys and they're going to have a really cool role in the battlefield and it's a compelling choice. I think some people might still a little bit hesitant a little bit nervous but I think it's. It's definitely a clear choice. Now because using the right hand these guys are going to be terrifying. have no time for people. Oh that are held by fear. That's like the or your son's here so so you guys did a complete rework of the warrior son battle per now each time this unit passes the morale tested gains one fe token it makes benefits. Oh can do the following when this unit attacks before tax dice are rolled that offender becomes panicked and vulnerable or when this attack before defense dice are rolled is unique. It's plus one defensive roles for this attack for each of its destroyed ranks. They already have four. Plus armor could be up to two on their last ranks. They'RE GONNA be sticking there in the thick of things What was the thought behind? We're kind of reworking. The warrior sons. Well a a fun fact. This is actually one of their initial designed versions and will there. Were pretty scary and at the time we did keep changing them until we found something. That was more comfortable and we still felt it was in their role but they were at the kind of low end of eight wins and we wanted to keep them at a point so we changed back to an Alpha version and it's working right and we tested it and were safe and comfortable especially now so because since these one of the you'll notice that most of the changes are very early units because there was less stuff already created needed when when they came out even though there was already a lot and we had good numbers and many factions we now we have even more right and we can see that they perform well like this. This was one of those situations where it was again like. Like five zero two said You'll who knows a lot of the tweets or whatnot hurts early releases and things and that's mainly because back then. It was a kind of mentality of. If you're unsure about something err on the side of caution because we don't want anything to be just like drastically overpowered So if you're if you're ever in doubt about something like okay you know. Could this like this number three or four. Usually we would kind of err on the side of caution and light just keep it lower rather than something powered in this case right here this actually led to a a late stage rework of the Warriors Suns where they were the current form that was released. This here is actually almost like a straight revision to Say the direct previous version because this is kind of amalgamation of a couple of things things they did but it was basically done like again like things. Were taking cautious before but also you kind of get a better feel now for wants to gain came came out now. Everything was developed everything what people value points at like What people can what the certain threshold to a six point unit should be seven point you than eight eight point ten poignant And this is one of the cases. That's as we talked about before we we make units kind of designed to fit a role in the army. You based around like this is the points bracket they should be hovering around. You know. That's why I as we talked about in the article series. We are really hesitant to just change points points on things because usually unit is made. It's meant to fill a certain kind of points role in the army as well as a certain like faction. Roll like this offense a tank unit or you know whatever ever but it's supposed to be this is a expensive tankeea dokie. Just drop it in points. Then it's no longer the expensive thing that's sitting. There might be conflicting something else or your sons. Were always meant to be a elite. Like you know Creme de la Creme scary unit yet you're paying for with the ability to do almost anything you WANNA ever and I. That's kind of where they are now so and I really really liked the warriors son's like that's actually one of my favorites units units in the Lancaster. Army actually funny enough them and how the deers which is another thing when people keep saying that like Oh you know. He's just going to buffalo. UNC likes everything. It's like well if you'll look. I was actually overly cautious with the units. I liked typically because I knew I like them so you know I was always paranoid of like Manam making these guys too good because I really like them or you know that was always something about it which is why. I'm glad that we have bob here to kind of rain things. Yeah I really like the way the The sub-factions developing like this sort of faith component of the lancasters looking forward to you know things like that and future armies like the numbers champions of faith speaking of the champion of faith and unwavering conviction. Now when this unit activates it may make morale test on a success. It may restore to wounds on a failure restores one wound instead Ed. That's a Lotta healing with changes to panic. I mean it's really cool to see the the rise of a lot of these sort of healing mechanics and man for one point unit. That's going to be a lot added value in some of these Lancaster lists well. That's mainly it's like pushed the Lancaster themes of like sustained and not necessarily defense like One of the themes the lancer armies control but their secondary theme is awesome to be one of again. I don't want to say defense because that implies like value how you like it. Just for instance maybe like they are well attrition well but it's various means in the face do it through healing. Yeah versus the last regards. Do it through their three three. Plus you know we're going to grind you out safe so that's you know again trying to focus things more on the initial like faction designs and just give a purpose. Does the old champion of faith was giving you offense for passing morale which doesn't fit any of the core themes of Lancaster's which is why you didn't see them and then Jamie Jamie Lancaster getting another rework here from one point four to one point five. Now he's got ordered king slayers prowess when he activates. Return one of Jamie Commander Mander tactic cards from your discard pile to your hand. Is this a hand upon. Because he's getting extra an extra thing for his hand is that now. I wish I wish I had thought of that. We're here the man. Oh this is i. I love card recurs mechanics and darn it. This is another one where you're looking at US commander. And you're like yeah. That's really good. It's not crazy overpowered. But with Jamie's cards and the combos he can do really compelling choice now to be fair. I don't play anymore but oh God I can't remember I can't remember some Jamie Lancaster's cars I haven't played them in so long and I am faced them in so long. I think that's GONNA chain. Yeah what what we expect from. That is Since his cards are very reactive You'll be able to dish out more Jamie kind of plays in a way where he should be the center of attention so you want to activate his unit sort of first and that will help you later right Jan.. They're still some counterplay. Because is your opponent kind of sees what you drew so but just that just that intimidating factor is a pretty handy and then we get into how. How stark and there's been a lot of talk about how stark recently and they got some really cool changes as well? I started with House. telly sworn shields dropping down the six points. That is a very. That's a great six point unit. was there any particular reason in that. Design Choice. Yeah Yeah I guess Michael Already explained that a little bit in a previous question where in this case there was enough room for them to change in points it's value inside the faction and this adjusts the more to roll end to what they should be doing. Because starks had aradio very very good aggressive seven point options and the starks usually tend to play aggressively so it it figures that players would favor these other options. Yeah I think that maybe speaks to the same thing with the stark outriders I feel like there may be kind of getting bullied. Bullied out a little bit of their point range. Another points didn't change but I think the the real work to their ability bushwack Now now that when the enemies are charged success Char's in the flank or rear the become panicked the weekend That is gives us significant kind of Combo potential with the stark lists. And then we also up there to hit die you. They're a bit as well. This is another one of those units. That was kind of made with the You know better safe than sorry. Kind of mindset here because cavalry area's really strong and scary so and this was also you know an initial start starbucks unit here as well not that that factors into too much but it definitely is like this is going to be people's first foray into that's the game right so this was one of those kind of films that whole. Let's err on the side of caution with them and it's like okay. We might have been able to watch here. So we gave them basically just some attack buffs here and everything but also again wanted to refine their purpose within the faction because yeah like swift. Retreat is their defining traits. The hoping to make a retreat action after that they're attacked and then just swing back in but they didn't really center of anything based on that building they just had this need ability that like okay cool they can retreat and then charge back in so we want to just give them a better focus. You know this is what they do so now you know we replace their other ability with bushwacker scenario. They charge you. They're going to cause you to become panic weekend. So they're going to have a little bit more self sustained in the fact that they you don't rely on outside forces to just be good but there are also allowed to Combo the rest of your army by giving something that these starts didn't really have a lot of access to especially the paddock a Weekend at actually they got a couple of different options in there to play with as well but again giving you a better toolbox to work with making this an attractive like basically saying okay. This is what I want This is an element of my army that I want. What is going to help me get that? Then you can look and you're like Oh. This fills that role this Unocal's what does that role and if he doesn't ever fill a role like what. What are these guys doing for me? That's where we kind of have to evaluate fix and that seems to be the theme for all the start changes. Here's your giving a really like a very clear sort of toolbox approach where you know. Now the changes to start bowman hitting on a three plus At eight eight four and they have that new era volubility ignores terrain just an units. Just like before. But now defenders failed their panicked tests become weakened and cannot trigger their orders until the end of the round. This is a really cool strategic piece now including army. This was a like like we had an entire article based around these guys here so I don't want to dwell too much on them if people can check that out but this was one of the victims of the faction you know in another faction with another tool kit that these as had access to. It might be a different story whether they're reworked or not but it happens that these guys are in starts. They just didn't play well. Oh with everything else there. So aside from just a minor change here and everything these guys had to be given a specific role and purpose so they actually had to be reworked back to give something that was unique action because they play so differently verses any other element that they're up against speaking of specific roles roles in the faction. and maybe Fabio. You can speak to this little bit. you house is also a significant change and their attack profile file increased but their executioners fury ability. You know plus one to hit when they start to turn engaged. The defenders not get defense saves at all and if if this unit has only one remaining rank this attack in critical blo and they lost their other ability entirely. What was the thought process behind that? Well I think that had executioners fury basically what you said is what it already did that was being overlooked because a the most people were playing with the other attack and now it has a little bit of both and it really is doing doing what. What the universe supposed to do and it would their little neat trick? That's hilarious because I had forgotten that that was actually what executioners seniors fury does because I was so used to getting hit with mighty cleave You know so really yeah. That's that's that's a good point for design choice here that You know it was kind of being. Wasn't it really being used for this component. Yeah now they'll fill the role better and still performed just as well and I think it goes back to that giving like can really interesting choices to and you're building your list out These guys have a definitive role role and purpose. That you use them for and you don't just use them as like your catch all but you know a little bit slow. So big changes to brandon. Hauteur her I know we had some people on not too long ago on an episode talking about the starks and they will be thrilled about the decrease in points for Brandon. Hunter dropping a point that that becomes a A really compelling investment to get like an additional activation and all the abilities for only for only two points so I think that's going to be a compelling choice for a lot of community members and then great John Amber the fierce Bannerman is now having the order overrun. I think that's kind of really thematic. was there a decision for that other than it. Being the magic yet. Sveriges favorite ability in the game. Oh is it really over. I have to watch myself to overrun in everything right. Oh Hey we could give this guy overrun oh hey we can give the soon overrun look lady overrun. Oh too soon too soon. That never forget she's damages and then I think this might be like the sleeper change for the entire stern action here Rodrick Acelle. He's The mastered arms. He's order mark targets. Start of a friendly turn. One enemy in line of sight and long range becomes vulnerable. And he's still got expose opening when targeting vulnerable enemies. The unit may re-rolling MRS now. It doesn't have to be in Malay anymore. He's GonNa have so many options. This is a great playmaker that was a share like quality of life. Change where like Roger Cad powerful cards. He had good effects. They were hard to utilize like unreasonably so so this was just make him undo his cool stuff easier so you can feel cool doing cool stuff. I think you've succeeded succeeded. I think he's GonNa see a lot more play. I actually know people are still playing them. mm-hmm but man now he's definitely going to be a strong choice decrease points value. I think I think that makes sense dances well. With some of the liabilities being brought around a team and Syria for L.. I played a Bravo's Oh so this is such a cool character very thematic your changes to him now now. He's got first blades. Guidance this units may attacks gain precision hits from rolls of six. Do Not Allow Defense Saves. That's GonNa make him much more compelling choices well yeah And that I think Syria is one of my favorite characters and it's a shame. Yeah he wasn't being used as much I definitely think so. Yeah and I think now though people have a reason now to use like Orien- friends yeah. Yep the Super Friends French I I think we're GONNA see a lot more of that now with these changes. I'm excited. We're hoping to have a tournament studios in New Jersey. I think it's like the first one point five tournament. There is so we'll all be kind of bumbling through the rules but we'll have our new units in addition to all sorts of new combos and we might see some sort of ferrall there. I'm hoping and and You know I'm trying to rush through this. There's so much to go through here. The neutrals as well roose Bolton getting a decrease in points value and the House Bolton Bastard third girls a along community favorite especially for the sculpt I think it had may be mixed reviews as far as being on the table I thought it was always pretty strong. But you guys have added Blade and Fang giving it vicious and you kind of just rename the order was there any significant reason to rename the order. I think it was what sickened before it was sycamore. Now it's charging volley the whole thing. That is standardizing templates. I mean there's not really exciting answer so there we didn't WanNa have like okay. This is the same ability somewhere else but it has a different name. I mean we lost theme there which at sad but this is is one of those like kind of just tidying things up changes. Yeah and once again since they were a very they're like wave one like one of the initial initial units. That were thought out. We think that vicious now especially with the new panic changes puts them in line because we did review all the units right. And that's one of the changes that also fits with the new panic rules. This is the only time this is your Christmas present. Both of you by the way so I make a punt here but this is throwing a bone to the like I. I'm still okay. I had no problem that we gave these guys. Vicious madly fits there actually one of my favorite units one my favorite factions. I felt that they were fine. Before I've now I see the points where like yes. We gave them vicious here that does like just increase their their overall value I still felt that they were for a decent. You know a value before especially knowing the things that are coming out which I guess we can talk about because like we have storm grows coming out now. We have exited previously. All of those were just like these are fine options here adding vicious here just kind of makes this unit gives it just enough to make it accessible to. There's always those units. They have a high like skill cap. That's you have to be mindful of because if you bought them or make them too good than the people who are really really good with them are going to become terrifyingly good at the same time though. You want things to be accessible like you don't want people to have to vote extra you know. It's the Rodrick situation like this guy's cool he's stuff. It's just really hard to play. I bet vote so much more for the study and understanding of how he works to make him work. Yes his other options and sometimes we'll talk about that as being like the burden of execution execution where it's like I can do this with this unit but I have to work so much harder than if I just took that And you know I think to that point in maybe a different way I think maybe the House Bolton flayed men kind of suffered a little bit from that in one point four now that they are nine points. They've got three plus plus armor save and they've got ferocious assault so now an enemies successfully are charged by this unit. They become panicked It seems like you're trying to move them away away from being so much of like a objective bunker. Is that accurate strong opinions of this unit and sorry Fabio claim this one here. It's actually one of those here. This is one of those changes that was made specifically feel. Just two people aren't going to like carrying this but you know that's fine you can not like opinions. This was a change made to instill people being better players. Because this was a crutch crutch units that out of most any other unit that exists in the game one required the least amount of effort for the player to succeed. Data in regards to the opponent is the one that had to know how to deal. `This you're more often rewarded for the opponent not knowing how to properly elite the OPEM. Didn't you work for yourself properly. Playing them. In a tactical way to write a bunch of mistakes. You could make a bunch of bad plays and be forgiven if your opponent did not know how to capitalize optimize that and that is to me an opposite design philosophy that you want for any unit you need to be rewarded for properly playing and being rewarded for knowing how to feel the unit you should not be. It shouldn't be on your opponent to go like okay. I know the answer so therefore these guys are not your problem or I don't know the answer. I can't do anything about these guys. These are like the quintessential like new player stompers. So so you've you've You've spent some people if it's rough enter into the game per share rights and at worst like this end and of course now this is gonNA sound more insulting -sulting but this is for like this made some players lazy like as far as their tactics and everything went because they knew they throw them out there and you know okay I I don't have to think and I never never want to see something like that exists in game. I always want you. You have to think about everything that you're doing and you have to worry about every choice you you make and I think that is so apparent everywhere else in the game and that's kind of a staple of this We talked before the show but I have a lot of people from other gaming in systems that have been recently showing interest in song and fire and just commenting on how back and forth and cerebral. The game is and I feel like this. This has changed definitely brings them more in line with the overall like feel and and You know mechanical theme of the game another chains though then was various and You know I haven't got a chance to see if the community's response this is positive or negative but he's moved his points up to five points and then you modified his ability timing. What was kind of the the logic behind the timing was just because there were lots of confusions around it and at just streamlines when an NC activates so now you would? I use them not when they claim attack zone. So if I'm like hey I'm going to activate man's Raider You would then uses assist token. Yeah so it kind of gives me some options there for counterplay a little bit. There's that exact word that I was going waiting to use but you beat me to it. It opens up avenues for counterplay around his ability versus it. Just being a straight denial thing. Now it's going back to the cerebral thing. Did you actually just mentioned now. Okay Got Boris. Before it was like well crap I got I got you but now it's I got orest I do I do now. I've got limited options. Yes now how am I gonNA work around. That's man that's another really smart change I just I love this game is going. You guys are really really killing here Is he still very very powerful. But now you're actually just forcing more. It's like not only your spending talk about your forcing your opponent to like us brain energy now to like make more decisions and it's like we always keep saying we're killing it like yeah just like killing it just like guitar will. Oh don't go to too soon. I'll get messages so I mean that's the the neutral okay. Well actually we're GONNA a controversial then You know there's been one part of the community that we haven't had too many complaints from They got their shiny war-machine throwing rocks at the people But we haven't heard a lot from the night's watch so There have been some nice weather changes and I think these are very sensitive. They make a a lot of sense. for a long Time Warner Brothers have been talked about being there on the top of that bell curve for power at point level the very efficient unit But now we have an increase in the sworn brothers to seven points and they've gone up They have plus one to their full ranks. There are eight attack dice. They still got critical blown alone. Sundering I know people are going to be upset. Some people rights going to change their list building up so now and they build. The night's watch listed isn't just How many sworn brothers can I fit? And then Jon Snow veterans or whatever but I think really this makes a lot of sense they really are point costs at at like seven points and especially that given the plus tack profile. I mean it's a IT'S A. It's a great seven point unit unit yet. There's actually a funny story. I told some of my non nightwatch play testers Guys I'm thinking that may be sworn brothers should aw cost appoint more and they're like wow it's going to be eight points and then six right now. A man so yeah they really feel like a seven and so and obviously nightwatch hasn't been out that long we do not want to do many change. We did not want to make changes on the 'cause we fill most of it is fine and we need to collect more info if we have to change change anything but this little change is and the next one are the two that we felt. Yeah and the next one is you you Increased increased bone marshes points value again You know in the end almost see this more as a not a buff but like I wanted to say like it's a buff to all the other units because now you're like oh like sweaters a seven points like well maybe I do WanNa take ranger trackers. Maybe conscript are really want to be taking You know it makes the other options available More palatable but this is going to be one of those just like you know controversial things because you know people are going to have opinions on this like they do everything but the design intent behind nights watches is supposed to be very condensed elite army. That's you know has a lot of very cool expensive units that you are basically they're really good and your fucking them even further by the elements in the action and and sworn brothers. Were throwing that kind of Meta off by their by the being efficient but this is getting back on with circling trickling. Way Back to the beginning here. What we're talking about when you're looking at points adjustments like that these guys gotTa points judgment for the opposite reason that most anything ever else would would is the fact that by unit existing in what is supposed to be a elite faction at this points level is throwing off the nature of this being an elite faction So now like you look at this. They don't have a five point baseline unit point baseline in their stuff starts at seven. Because it's cool goes higher. They've got chafe Eunice. Everything here concepts at four. But you're getting negatives for taking this right negatives but you're losing out on some of your cool stuff here you can take neutral still but you're losing out on some of your faction mechanics in your vows. The faction by design is supposed to be those people who want a small number of like really cool that ask guys to play and sworn brothers were unfortunately just two points level and they were throwing off that whole dynamic because yes it was really hard to justify taking some other options when you have the super efficient for their points six point units and if you just made them worse for six points okay okay well. At that point you still have access to a six point unit so that that's not getting to the root thing we wanted to fix. It wasn't a matter of like this. Unit is individually too strong or to optimize because they were if we just thought that they were just too cheap. Then it'll be a matter of just okay bump their points up no other changes but we saw we actually did give them a small buff and it's again because this is a change that was done for the overall faction health. Even though I think a lot of people are going to view it as just like the and I'm not gonNA say that it didn't they are to ask but this is these changes were done for overall faction health more than it was just the specific the specific pros and cons of these two units. Nia Bohannon does brothers. I think it makes sense and then You know I think for a lot of people have accused me of being a little bit biased towards free folk doc But I can think that we could probably say that the coolest change out of all of one point five is the spear wives Dropping them by a point. So there's so much talk about how conspiracy lives changed we maybe use them more. And you'll talk about increasing their stats giving other abilities just by doing the small small tweak and this is what I think has been so good about a lot of your changes dropping them down one point. When I first saw that I was like I don't know and then I look and I was like? Oh they're really powerful that four points but trackers are not trackers are also trappers are also really cool but trappers have insignificant -nificant spear wives. Don't they're so powerful at four. Do and I'm like I'm really in the spot. Where like I I kind of really do WanNa take there is a downside and I feel like that's the I feel like that's the sweet spot when I'm sitting here like debilitated trying to do I want to feel this always not always? Sometimes it just shows that you guys have found on like a really great at sweet spot for design. I'd like to take a moment by the way to plug my podcast song. Chat new platinum level sponsor on the table gaming thing for their generous independent donation To become that new platinum sponsor level and has nothing slightest to do with the lowering reports of spear wives completely unrelated by the way. Is that how it works because I go triple platinum. If let's see what else I don't know You can make your subscription out to cash okay fair enough no but but seriously this is a great like this is a subtle tweak it's the unit didn't change in any way besides just now being compared against another option that makes a really compelling choice. I'll so fabio worked on the was the free Fokker one of the first things that he They were kind of wrapped up a little bit before he came on but he had a lot of exposure to them some. I'll let him speak a lot about the sphere wise but just one. The coolest listing for me that changed for them is dropping them before points. That means that. So let's look at them comparatively the where the where they. Let's look at them compared to were they the way they were before five points. Now I've got a point opened up that I can stick in this very versatile unit. That's got a verse versatile okay a Melee attack range that they can use their a one point attachment bunker that how do I want these guys do too. I want a chosen of Styron here with them too. They can just at range sit there and throw out some your weekend or maybe even charge end. Do I WANNA stick in a ooh. I almost let things slip for. You know some future things what I will leave it at that. Is There A. They're an attachment bunker to me at four points much more in a role for that. More befitting than something like in trappers. trappers have a very defined role a very insignificant role here but now fear wives out the jack-of-all-trades unit here that can do speak out of crafted to do what you want. Yeah and seven. Seven three is a great attack profile at that cost for free folk. Well I'd say that even before four. They were pretty interesting attachment bunkers but yet now they actually fit better because at five points right now free full. Oh Caz great options like cave-dwellers that are also sort of jacks of all trades but in in a different manner and I just feel more like you know oppressive at five points like the caves averages in the free folks bureau wives did On the table they they seem to have have the more dramatic impact has other ones finishing off weakened units with a cool abilities in choices so always made a spear wise kind of like the you know the the lesser child at that point range. Yeah but I'd say when I joined Simona was around of the beginning of love free folk hero box one. We were doing that. I think. And so most of options there were already a of sort of made and I was allowed to tweak them a little bit and when when I arrived and I saw that to me they were sort of already given because we knew there already going to be launched and We couldn't really change them so I I don't know I always managed to use them in like a little like trying to trying aim to be creative and we already knew of some attachments that were coming that Michael almost spoilt. But saw we're getting is that there's GonNa be even better for free for Gosh. I'm excited no no I I mean I don't WanNa team as well as I know you're not like the ideal place for that you can put attachment anywhere but I'd say they we were sort of given and when we decided to put them down at four the really increased value in the army just because of the interesting options they open. This is the one that sound like. They wouldn't work in an another army at the point cost but because and this is something something just general thing as well that when people start comparing units cross factions and everything that it doesn't work for so many reasons I mean you can do it obviously by me like you have to so many variables factor en route spear wives at five points. Sorry at four points you know in any other army would be insane. Yeah Ah even at five points. They're not a bad unit armies but just the fact that like infre- folk five points is expensive phrase exists should already be happened that you can't across faction compare things. Yeah and since freefall can't Have neutrals that also gives us a lot of options so so that makes them unique in a way that other factions are not with all these changes also came a lot of rule changes in the interest of time. Let's just talk about some of the more Maybe the ones that haven't been already kind of gone over in some of the articles And so Or that are very significant and and You know people need to be fully aware of so. I think we're starting off. Charging is a huge change and You mentioned that it also in early with that. It's going to help you know. Give them a little more defensibility so you know what was the idea behind the charging Changes while I'd say that before the the way people were we're charging meant that players that position themselves well in a defensive capability. Weren't being rewarded for doing so and that requires there's a lot of planning and positioning so we did. These changes not only to streamline things but also to reward these players ears that can create defensive formations which before a were being sort of cheated. Get Out of them by having their trees moved for example This is not part of the Platinum Song Chat Buffs for Free Croak. No I'd say this is not really a buff. This is just a game improvement as yeah. I think it does cleared up to and it's going to be a lot more definitive for players You know it's it's a yeah that'd be less kind of trying to figure things out. It's kind of a clear hard rule. I mean this whole thing is just unto just reward positioning more whereas to be frank you know before they. They were too many ways to just easily bypass what should have been a proper defensive formation setup by several yeah and that makes now if someone's actively trying to and make a defense for their units they are rewarded for doing so verses just like Oh you tried but just what. I just bypass that super easily because it's still going to be a standard sorry. Just one God because it's still going to be like sanders situation here where if someone is actively blocking blocking a flank or creating a defensive line that's not something that just randomly happened. I mean there's the potential that disraeli happens but usually they worked for it so they should be rewarded for do except anyway. I saw some changes now to the resolving attack steps And so you've added in some some bullet lines to this process now so You know what's going on there. What does the community need to know about that change? Yeah well a lot of questions were coming up about When is an attack resolved or when our attack died of rolled? Like what does after attacked is a ruled of mean. I mean for example Is that before after the re-rule and so on and that was just a way of tightening things up so now we we have a just very clear explanation of all the steps and a win. Triggers should be in a I guess and that also means that we also explained better when an attack ends so this also helps to clear you just questions in general about other interactions in the game like tactics cards and so on. This didn't actually lead them like rules. Changes are overhauls. This is purely a clarification. Run here where you know. This is how it played before. Now it's just easier to understand which has a lot of what these changes were meant to you. Do and you trigger. 'cause I thought we were GonNa talk about that specific rewrote thing that I get so triggered about because these roles Ho boy all right kids gathered around. This one's like Fabio is. Hurt me Vince. It's about this so much and I'm I'm sorry I this one goes out to all the rules. Lawyers is there is. This is dedicated to I. I respect your technical ability to read the very technical precise wording of a role and come to a conclusion that you know deep down in your heart is absolutely just the wrong way to interpret something. Think and then we stick by that under any costs. Oh blood pressure. One Line. In the rule book and the F. H. E. that we did modify was specifically clarifying that it does not physically matter who is rolling the dice as part of a re roll it is who is generating the effect of that re-rule now if you're confused by that that since it okay that only means that you are saying so this actually came up more than once which is why he actually went in here and address. It was by the way the rules are written. It says that a player may not re-rule a diversion. Okay by the wording. Wording of condition tokens it. Says you may force your opponent's to rewrote Dice for whatever check their doing so therefore some lovely individuals were arguing. Oh well they're rolling the dice and then if they have a re-rule effect like charging they would be real. But then if I try to spend a weekend token on them because it says they're physically the one rolling the die and that a player can't roll a dye more than once. That actually doesn't work so that never happened but you're the one causing the roll the opponent. That's that's what is meant to say it but this rule is specifically talking about physically. Rules is like like no no. It's not and that this is your argument. Yeah aren't you. Aren't you glad the community or some members demeter out here then can torment with things. Like this. I would have a rece- act. was kind of a trolling attempts. But the problem is is that it's there they've actually believe this. That's where we cross the line into. I don't want to believe that you exist years trying to mess to me okay. Sure that's one thing but you actually believe this while you guys have done such a good job with these changes. I'm really excited to get more games than we've got tournament coming up at mythical is the end of the at the end of the week and I'm sure we'll be all going to double checking the rules and combing over there and make sure we're getting the changes correct but You know I hope you guys realize that what you've done is like really incredible and You know I don't know if you have a sense of pride that you feel this coming out but The game was already amazing. And it's really moving in a positive position and I think These changes is further cement. That status. And I'm I'm glad to see that. The community is growing in our area. There's a lot of people from more seasoned wargamers that are looking now at this game as it's being played and are really liking the mechanics a lot of So we've always had a a kind of a good at least in my area of people that are like kind of more casual gamers but pulling in people that are really more technical and competitive players. They're loving the rule set and these changes are just a huge step in the right direction. So just while I have you here tip of the hat Because you guys are you know I keep saying you're killing it but things are relooking good for this game well that's not honestly asleep Speak for myself but We really love I really love what I do and I hope that people people can see that we put in a lot of effort and we did review everything and we try to catch everything under our net and that these changes ages might seem really big but if you look at them they're just really making the game more streamlined for the greater. Good there we go. Well thank you guys for coming on here and I always enjoy talking to you and I and thanks for taking the time This evening to To talk about song is a fire. In the meantime I'll be get your miniatures on the table

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