19 Episode results for "James Clyburn"
Into an American Uprising: James Clyburn on Lessons from History
"It was march of nineteen sixty when more than thousand students from Claflin at South Carolina State to historically black colleges march to the townsquare in Orangeburg South Carolina. They'RE PROTESTING SEGREGATION firehoses turned on them and hundreds of arrests were made. One of those arrested was a young SC state student from sumpter. He'd been named the Youth President of his local N. double, ACP chapter at age twelve. Now in college, he was one of the organizers of the sit in. and His name with James Clyburn. Sitting in the Orangeburg County jail that March Day. Clyburn at the woman he would go on to marry. Miss Emily England. They remain married for fifty eight years until her death last September. Next month James Clyburn turns eighty. He's never stopped fighting for civil rights. It's a nice story a love, story. But one that belies the dark painful reality. That change is slow in this country. As police hit protesters with rubber bullets and pepper spray this week and thousands of Americans are arrested on the streets of our cities. It starts to feel like we haven't come very far at all. In Times of great struggle and pain, we often look to history to guide us. Congressman James. Clyburn has lived that history. He serving his fourteenth term in the House of Representatives. As a Democrat representing South Carolina's sixth district. As majority whip, he is the highest ranking black legislator in Congress. Stifles. This is into America. And today a conversation with Congressman James Clyburn. So we're in a time of great smote right now, which reminds a lot of people of a far off times Longo days, and it reminds people of what we've seen in the south. Play out through the civil rights era. What was it like for you growing up in Sumter, South Carolina? SUMPTER is the birthplace of the white citizens council. The first time the dollars was really. Attack In. The state was a case. In sumter South Carolina local lawyer, trying to break the back to the NWPP so. No whole lot about background here. You got your start with the end of the. What was your initial impulse to get politically active? Was it some of these same issues that we saw playing out? The reason I got involved in Mississippi at twelve years. Is because of what was going over in the county next to me Cleveland? Browns, we both of education started out. Traveling kind of South Carolina from the three miles where outgoing raise? Remember Brownfield of education. was A was five cases. One of which is in South Carolina, another one was in Delaware. That's how I got to Joe Biden so so well and we used to. Interact a lot over those kinds of issues. This incident though in the nap, it's really. Brought back a lot of members to me. You know the Emmett till case. was something that really saw the rock the nation. The bumming. Those children. There in Birmingham Alabama all of that. This was much like that. And I don't know. I can't explain it because. Walter Scott. Was Shot. In the back, running away from police officers there. In My district in Charleston. South Carolina, those nine souls murdered in the basement of Emmanuel, Ame Church. That to. Was the greatest as yet in both those incidents, though the Communities Chamba. Why is it then? That, we had this kind of reaction. Here. In the naps. I think is because a climate has been created in this country. That people feel. Is being specked against them. And so when I cried out. In My compass meeting, saying that this is an opportunity for us to restructure things. In that vision. Of Limited justice row. Mitch McConnell Bill On. The floor. For the State Senate. And, just as me by position. While we finalize the. To House parachuted in with miscellaneous, liberal Dimaggio unrelated completely unrelated to Kobe nineteen. One Senior House Democrats call the virus tremendous opportunity to restructure. Thanks to Fit our vision. So, we ignored the left wing, wish lists, and we stayed serious, and the Kazakh is still helping American bridge these temporary shutdowns. As what I was saying. is suffering that I had no right to say that they have the right to have a vision for this country, but I'm not back away from that. The healthcare system in this country needs to be restructured. The education system needs to be restricted. The judicial system. needs to be restructured. And that to me? Is Why people react in the way. They reacted because they know. That, this president has created a climate in this country. That stats fakes against them. That's what is going on here. That's my people are reacting the way they reacted not just. US But all across this country and around this were. That to me. makes us. But? Why are we still here? I understand that. This is an example of all the symptoms of a court here, but after all these years we're still dealing with these same issues this president or not. We're still dealing with why. Similar because in this country progress. Moves like a pendulum on the KLOPP. This country moves. Left for a while. Then it goes back, right. And it goes back to left again. That is just the way this country's always been, but I always say to young people just remember this. Country has going from right to left. It passes through the centre. Going from left back right, it passes through the center. And what keeps us? Relatively stable is the fact that canceled in the Senate. Twice as much as they came out left or right. So this went left. When elect! Barack Obama. And starting to go back to the right. Eight years later, we elect Donald Trump I don't believe. That the people voted for them had any idea. That they will see. This guy. Tick this country so far, right? UNTIL THE THREATENS It's made existed. sincerely. That this country. If it doesn't post the rent. In this election we have seen the crumbling foundation. That has made this country what it is. For young activists and organizers who are breathing cove nineteen, they're coming out onto the streets because they believe George Floyd, but other black folks in this country need justice. How would you advise them to move in this moment when you have all of these forces? How how would you guide them through this moment? When I met my wife in jail. I was protested. So I. Know what it is the protest. But I also know. John Lewis and I talked about it a lot. The student movement that we started together snick student nonviolent throwing the committee. Both of us were found founding members of that. I also know that they had. Got Taken away from. You got infiltrated. And that's what's happening to these protests. These protesters are being hijacked about people who got no interest. Seeing the resolution to these issues. And we have got to be careful about that. Yes? Protests. Peaceably but not play into their hands, and that's what trump is trying to get them to do. One thing I learned playing sport. I played baseball football. RUN UP! And I learned. If your opponent. Yet you the plan. Here's a her game. On his her court. They win. Violence is not allowed game. That's trump's game. Insults. Trump's game. That's out game. Let's don't play that game. I you know I've got I've hit my wife. Jill and get that not walking back to the campus. That night. After I was bailed out of jail. We talked. I, this is my first time really meeting her but I. Didn't know that she. This is part of her design she. She knew what she was doing I didn't know. We end up getting mad married for fifty eight years. But! We talked about what it is we were. We decided that night. We were on the wrong target. We needed to refocus. And we did. Envy, one? You know. WHO has. And you know what's wrong. So do what's right and reject the wrong. It's about this idea of the political pendulum swing, and we find ourselves again in this moment of fire in rage and anger, and you've come up through the civil rights era. But were there missed opportunities or misteps? Is there any way that we could have avoided still being here? Even after all the the great change, the leaps that we made were still in this place where many young people would look at what's happening say? The system simply doesn't care about black life like that. America might enjoy culture, but not black people. With their a moment that we missed in the past. No I don't think so. there were moments. When we were challenged. Their moments that we still being challenged that the country has whole. has its challenges. I always say there can be known more within the lesson without experiences allow us to be and so being black in America gives you a set of experiences. That's different from anybody else. In my favorite animal is a term. And I keep them on throughout mov. You'll find a couple of hundred. Turtles in my possession. Because I stayed focus. I tell people. They great does not go to the swiftness. But who? Endured to the in. These that Steph offers. So you've been steady for a very long time and focus and you were the highest ranking black member of Congress and you've chaired. The Congressional Black Caucus and I WANNA to ask you. What do you see as your responsibility in this moment? Our responsibility within the next thirty days. Is Put for it comprehensive. Set of legislative actions. and go up to the public. Explained to what we're doing. Let's take one for instance. Hockey Jeffers. Is doing good work. with his Choco he's been trying to get that. Bill passed. How long? Had Gotten the past. But he hadn't given up. I think he's GonNa pass now. We gotta get rid. Of these laws that were passed. When they call, stand your ground. You and I both know that law unleashed. Vigilantism! Idea Against Black People? That's what got trayvon Martin Chiro. We need to get those laws off the books. We got professionalized for recent in this country. We hire police officers. Before you look the part. And many times without the kind of the proper training. The police in this country needs people federalized. Why is it the doctors and lawyers? Have to maintain periodic training P and all that kind of stuff and we don't require anything like that for police officers. They have much more public contact. These professors that is going to be part of the comprehensive peace lesson that we're GONNA put out. By the end of the month that's going to be doing. Do you think they actually actually be able to move through given the tone, tenor and stance of this administration. Yes I do. Because trump wants it. But I've been need. If bigger. Groundswell comes out here. We already passed. The Buck of all of this is passed the house. is in the heroes at. Enough Presser out here. If the thank you. Put on the docket over in the Senate I think it'll pass the Senate. And public pressure is everything. And I think this president. Give me throws the signing. From the pump. The pump gotTA, get engaged in this. You I'm finding my congressional district. They know fight for this. But the be gotTA. Get other people fighting for those as well in other congressional districts all over this country in another state. So I. Think yes, he could get done. But if it doesn't. then. Hopefully. We'll have a new president who will understand? Why must get done and get it done in the first one hundred days abused administration? Congressman Clyburn you mentioned a new president. And after the break I want to talk to you a little bit about the man who is running into beat president trump as far. Joe Biden. Stick with us. Hey It's Chris Hayes this week on my podcast. Wise is happening I'll be talking with Jesse Wegmann about his new book about the Electoral College and its flaws called. Let the people pick the president. Wouldn't you think that a sixty to forty split in the popular vote would lead to a six four allocation of electors so just to be clear, the constitution says nothing is a essentially a blank check to do whatever they. They want in allocating their electors. The state lawmakers can give the electors out themselves. They don't have to hold a popular vote. You have no right to vote for president. In the constitution, there is no constitutional right for you or I to vote for president. There isn't even a constitutional right for us to vote for electors. That's this week on wise happening search for wise is happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. 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We are truly interdependent. We are stronger when we are together. Join me for season. Three of the oath and MSNBC podcast search for the oath wherever you're listening right now and please subscribe new episodes, everyone's Day. Congressman you've been credited along with a bunch of your constituents. Especially Black folks in South Carolina in really reinvigorating Joe Biden's campaign, but when you have Thallady of Covid nineteen, you have the unrest and all the police violence. Does Joe Biden. Does he owe us specific debt, a specific responsibility to black folks to rectify whatever we're seeing right now. Yes. There we go, yes. Is there anything you. Uh, we'll take any nudging. Obviously, that's that's your guy. But what do you think he will do? That's been different than past presidents. were. Defending incremental a lot of people. Card gradualism. Incremental ISM is something that I think A. Really respected you Barack Obama. Did something good healthcare. That had been on the docket of the President Theodore Roosevelt Not Franklin. Theodore Roosevelt. In round for a hundred years. Universal Access to health care. Joe Biden is already said if he's elected, he will bill upon the affordable care. And I want to say something here. That proposition brings us up and I will. Then ninety nine for crime building. People keep trying to wrap around Joe Bonds. I wish people would really take the time and look at what the Crime Bill was when we passed in the spring of Nineteen, ninety four. And what the Crime Bill? After Newt, Gingrich? Took over the House of Representatives in the fall. November of Nineteen, ninety, four, the Crime Bill Nineteen, Ninety Four Crime Bill. Today has the same name. But it's not the same deal. Giving release in two thousand cops on the street. That's gone. The valid gets women was in that. Now much of that came back yourself weapons gone. We outlawed lot. The Mandatory Sentences Mentor Citizen that come in the ninety nine for crime bill that came in nineteen, eighty six. But people often flavored and so. said that. It? Let's have consequences. People will say though that regardless of how it changed a lot of folks still voted for it, and it had such damage to the black community. Is Your contention that you tried? Tried your best, and that's politics. And then what people say and all you? Do, not have it. As right as they think that crime bill got changed time and time again. That's all I'm saying. Get you. There have been a lot of progressives calling for Joe Biden, tap black woman, as VP, a lot of pressure and the moment we find ourselves in now. should that figure in his calculation at all given that black folks are crying out for leadership but serious change. Oh I. Think I've heard that VAL has been vetted. Heard a comma harassed as being that. Someone told me Susan Rice is. Where you would, you would know right 'cause. You're inside, right? You had no. No, no I have no idea I've just. Been told. I'm not inside the campaign. I'd have a pretty big job in the House of Representatives, so I letting Biden in the professionals. Run the campaign I'm saying now. The campaign I'm going to do my job I. Did my job in the southbound, the primary and on suited up turned it over them. Hopefully my friends. CENTRIC and Marcus Mason. Will make sure that I won't get disappointed. Do you think white. America once the change that black America's calling for. There is a big. Of America Erica. That's what has changed. If you don't believe it, look at the results of the south, Carolina Primary back on. February twenty ninth. and. Look at the vote of parents you will see. Didn't fight suburbs. That had not been voted in the Democratic primary in recent years voted overwhelmingly. In that primary for bottom. Now everybody looked at my Osman. And Black folks participation I've looked beyond that and I see some voting patterns and I know why Jamie Harrison. is running so well against mets rail, and that's why you never hear me. Say That trump is playing to his base I always said. The isn't element. In his base. That he's planning to. A lot of people. In his base that are walking away. I want to ask you this not as a rep clyburn, but as as Mister Clyburn as a black man who's seen a lot over the years in this moment. Are you hopeful for the future and we'll come next. Are you scared of what could be next? Yes I am hopeful. Yes, I am afraid. I am fearful for the future of this country. I am hopeful. That we will not allow. This one man. Who has very low regard. For the constitutional principles. A one richest country was built. Who seemed to have the Divi-. Of in. Compassion. For other people. Hopefully. We will not allow that. To be the future of this country. The electorate. Got Fooled once. Now that's. What we get fooled twice. That's can be on us. What advice, would. You give to America right now. I would say to this country. Look at what Alexis de Tocqueville? said to us as a country. Back in eighteen, thirty, five, thirty six. World is two volume book. On the greatness of this country. Let's talk about said. America's greatness. Is Not. That it is mowing, lighten. The. Nation. But Rather. Because is always been able to repair its faults. This pandemic. This merit. Of George. Floyd. Pulled back the curtain. On some folks. That exists in this country. Let's get to work and repay those faults. Repair! Our healthcare system out hits occasional system. Algae digital system. And I believe. If we do. We shall overcome. Clyburn I wanNA thank you so much. You obviously are a giant among men, and we appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Congressman James Clyburn is majority whip and a Democrat representing South Carolina's Sixth Congressional district. It's been about two weeks since George Floyd was killed. Two weeks of her and anguish and pain. But also two weeks of America wrestling with itself over who been who we are, and for some who were striving to become? The into America team has worked hard this past week. To unpack with this moment actually means for all of us, and we thank you truly for joining US along the way. And take your podcast feeds this weekend. We've got a look at the fight between religious freedom and public health that playing out all across the country as a result of corona virus. That episode drop Saturday. Into America is produced by about Angel Alison, Bailey, Aaron Dawn Max Jacobs Barbara, Rab clarify I should turner and pre devore thon original music by his Brown. OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER IS ELLA FRECHMAN Steve. Lick is executive producer audio. I'm mainly. We'll be back again tomorrow.
How Rep. James Clyburn Settled On Endorsing Biden
"Ooh Listeners Gaylon here House Majority Whip James Clyburn endorsed Joe Biden on Wednesday. And it's a big endorsement particularly in the run-up to the South Carolina primary. I'm down here in South Carolina this week and met up with Clyburn ahead of his endorsement to discuss how he arrived at his decision. And also how he's during this primary generally. Take a lesson congressman. Thank you so much for taking the time today so here in South Carolina you are known as a kingmaker and in fivethirtyeight endorsement tracker. Your endorsement is worth the most points possible. So what do you think your endorsement means here in South Carolina? Well you know what it means. No what I wanted to mean. What do you want to know? I made clear to the Democratic National Committee that if they were to select South Carolina as one of the so-called pre-primary. Eh One. Those states That I would not do anything to earn the cut The primary in another way or the short circuit and they felt that if I were to get ahead with an early endorsement that other candidates might not come and then CBS Who IS CO SPONSORING The debate With the Congressional Black Caucus Institute Also expressed the same concern. So I decided that I would not endorse unto last Friday. My Accountant Passed away and I went to his funeral and when I got there there full five people I got about thirty minutes early and four people came up to me all of them saying one thing we would like to hear from your waiting to hear from you. is a bunch of candidates. I mean no no Who's best who do you think is best and I was smiling and ducking and weaving and finally an elderly? African American woman looked up at me and I looked at her and she comes back and they come over to her and I walked off to she was there on the front row of the church. she said lean down here and she whispered to me. She says I've been waiting to hear from you. A lot of people want to hear from you. Just whisper in my ear. Who should vote for? Did you tell her yes I did. And so according to multiple sources reports that you plan on endorsing Joe Biden on Wednesday morning I those reports correct. I read that you've read that rigorous reports. Yeah I've read those reports. I'm not GonNa pass on that just yet. I've made it very clear that I will make My views known at nine fifteen on Wednesday morning. And do you think that people will follow your lead and perhaps more to the point? Do you think should follow your lead. When you do make your endorsement. Now let me just say. I'm hopeful that they will Uh spent pretty much all my life studying soft on on the politics. I've been in Congress now for twenty eight years Student of history I started trends. And I see developing in this primary much of what are so back in nineteen seventy two now most people who involve out now passing judgment on everything they don't remember back to Nineteen seventy-two but I do And this eerie similar. You're talking about George McGovern George McGovern particularly liberal coalition. That he does during the primary. Absolutely almost the same as it is now remember that so well in Nineteen seventy-two Miami Convention Us Southerners Rover in one camp. And I'm Tom Southern. I'm talking to throughout the south those states so much. So and we've been rump. Run run over By others in fact Jesse Jackson. Junior who's Jesse Jackson Senior who is from South Carolina? I played half by the jets him. WE WERE GROWING UP. He is big. George McGovern camp. Emara Morocco big. They were just a sitting there with a minute. The country's not gonNA go that way. This country is not ready to go that way but they want relating that to today. Are You essentially saying that you hope to stop Senator Sanders from winning the nomination because you see him building too much of a liberal coalition to win a general election? I'm not trying to stop him. I'm saying to people what I think we need and who I think we need. I'm not trying to stop in about it. Yeah I'm just trying to inform. I'm curious so at five thirty. We spend a lot of time tracking public opinion. Trying to figure out what the will of the people actually is and we rely on. Polls how do you come to a conclusion? About what or who is best for South Carolina ago? The church and I should say churches. I go to social who places I go To restaurants I go to lounges And I talked mostly to the people in motels and hotels who clean and furniture sweeping the floors. Those are the people I talked to of had one Media Person Since we've been here To ask me in the motel. I'm staying over the Marriott just about all the people working no you know me and I know them And I think that's important I hang out With the mouths But I really spend a Lotta time gathering people's feelings knowing what I said we're not a up instead. House was up in this Capital I The most meaningful article ever written about me I think was on member. Rollcall with one of the organs on the hill or the store and they had a picture of the people who move the moving the furniture and all that stuff around there and they were talking about. Who What's congressman their most respected and felt comfortable with and also elected. Because I never overlook that there are over. Eighteen the arisen children grandchildren. These are people who really have aspirations and I talked to. So that's how you come to a conclusion about what's best for South Carolina so what is best for South Carolina? What does the state need from a nominee or we need a nominee? Who will do three things? Explain to people what your candidate mean. Do them say to them. This is what my election means to you. This is what my lecture needs. Means to your family and this is what my election means to your community. And I've said to everyone the candidates who've ask talk to people about what's in it for you. Let them know what their families can? You let them know what you will do to improve their communities and so I tend to Do everything under those three. Headings make this country's greatness accessible than for put up billboards around and hope that It would be a suggestion to all the people coming in the time. I've been saying this country does not need to be made great in this great The problem we've got is making that greatness accessible and affordable for all When we talk about healthcare nobody needs to know the INS and outs of healthcare but need to know how this healthcare system can be accessible and affordable for them. They need to know whether or not our energy sources will be accessible for them when you're talking about infrastructure Is it broadband you talking about? Who gets another road bridge you know? Is it energy talking about That is what we've got to do And if you make this housing and healthcare broadband energy you name it Education accessible affordable. I think that's how you connect to people are problem. Seems to me is too many candidates Spend time trying to let people know how smart they are Rather than trying to connect to anybody in particular no not in about in particular with my talk about this a long time. Let me give me one good example what it means to you when the candidates said you need to be able to send your kids to college now. How many times of your debt? I hate that. Yeah and I tell my caucus I did hear that because we got people WANNA be lectures they WANNA be plumbers. Never wants to be a lot of things. Baba's you know. My bobber has both of his sons in the barbershop with. That's what they wanted to do so to that point. South Carolina has one of the lowest median incomes in the country absolutely Bernie. Sanders spends a lot of time talking about the structural challenges for poor people in be. You've made it clear that you're not interested in a democratic socialist. Why don't you think that's the right prescription? Given how much of a focus. There is in his platform on the port. There's a big difference to me between rhetoric and reality. I'm seventy nine years older than burning notepad experiences he has not had. I am not a millionaire. You know. raised three children And I'm not risen helping to raise four grandchildren so I don't want to hear a lot of rhetoric I wanna know what's real and it's not real. That child care is GONNA be free for everybody at what age Fabio four year? Three two when Utah. Give free when you make education free. It's not realistic that you're going to eliminate of student debt. What is realistic is in layout some programs as to how education is going to be affordable childcare is going to be a black grandson twenty five years old who is on the staff for Mayor Pete. All he's ever said to me I don't want it to be free. I would love to afford it. And that's what it's all about. People want to earn their cheap. Don't maybe some people? But as a rule fielding wants to give them anything brought to remove the stumbling blocks so there'd be accessible for me move all of the areas there. Were make it unaffordable. That's what people won't. South Carolina is something of an existential test for former vice president. Joe Biden's campaign which he's stayed in large part on his appeal to voters of color being on the ground here in South Carolina close to the action. How do you think he'll perform well? If the election were held today won't be into Saturday. It will today. I think he was finished. I how I I don't know I think if Amy Klobuchar had the resources she would do very well here Why do why any clubs are in particular because I know South Carolinians and I know with appeals to South Carolinians and she has a message that appeals he has a style that appeal to South Carolinians? And I also know people young people listening young people that will affect the man is one of those people are in a lot of young people. Mostly young people shouldn't be voting for here. So not say that Mayor Pete Ain't GonNa make a big difference if you thirty seven or thirty years. Old People say the young people don't vote you than it. What's happening and so? That's why I think the rhetoric Is One thing you know South Carolinians Have Reset this these primaries many times on both sides but they are when. Bill Clinton got this afternoon. He lost by either nine maybe ten contests before he got the soccer camp in said here. He'll be Clinton had just Lost New Hampshire to Bernie Sanders South Gallons. You get over eighty percent or the black vote in soccer after losing the New Hampshire. I WanNa ask you about that. Specifically so no. Democrat has won the party's nomination without winning the majority of black support since one thousand nine hundred two and the past two contests in particular. You've seen the black vote arguably be decisive in large part because it's unified right. Clinton won about eighty percent in the primary Obama won about eighty percent in the primary this year. It looks like the black vote in South. Carolina and nationally is more divided between Biden and sanders. And then even here in South Carolina Star are there specific things that you see that are causing divisions within the African American community who WanNa vote for or is that just a bipartisan. Having such a deep field got a broad field. Twenty some odd people were running We had three African Americans in contexts. there's just a big wide broad diverse field and this money being spent in this primary than ever before when we ever had to billionaires running in the Democratic primary for anything yeah and so when you've got one of the spin and you spin it You are going to be very influential. in advertising Your message especially when you're drowning another. You cannot tell me that they are more black people in South Carolina with sentiment to Cory Booker and Kamala Harris. Then there are the watch tire. So why is it? That style is pulling fourteen. Fifteen cents in African American music and Corey and gone from the contest is all about the money. I have said and I believe this very strongly that the citizens united decision in poverty I scream quote was the worst Supreme Court decision since Dread Scott. I have said that and I believe very strongly when you make money speech and that's what that's based did you are saying the person with the most money got the most speech and if you've got an African American community that ain't mechanism esther money is fine people you're saying white. People got more speech than black people. That is a bad bad decision in this country is GonNa wake up one day. And if we don't get rid of that decision and find out that that's what brought the country down. You mentioned that Harris and booker are now out of the race and from a historically diverse field. It's been winnowed to what's remaining are white candidates. Do you think that white politicians are able to fully represent the interests of black Americans? It all depends upon the experiences these candidates as I have said my bar food which I wrote and by the way the redesign of Amazon gives it five stars and then a joke. Book I wrote a call it blessed experiences and I say that book that all my experiences have not been pleasant but I've considered a hold of them to be blesses and it's which candidate has been blessed is most meaningful experiences that they can share and I believe that is what makes the candidate in the black community. What specifically do you have to see from a white politician to make it clear that they get it. They understand what needs to be done to represent the African American community. If you can go to a group of people and say here is what my candidates are means for you. Do you want to have better health pair for yourselves? Do you want pre existing conditions to be protected? Just go through the night then says what you want for your family. Do you want to be able to educate your children not sending the college but they educate them make them plumbers electricians if that's what they aspirations aw and here is what's in it for your family and go in the community? You need broadband in committee. Am I willing To lay out a plan as to how we will have Total coverage of broadband. Because that's the way you want. Keep Your Rural Hospitals Open? That's how you'RE GONNA KEEP. Your schools are functional at an adequate broadband. What is in it for you your family your community and why they're so hard. I don't understand all this foolish we're talking about and I'm I said. Cbs people now say it to them. You're smoshing this debate. This is South Carolina. There's no way in the world you can come to Charleston south on directly across the street from Emmanuel Church. And do what you did What was done There in Nevada for the worst mass shooting anywhere and there was never ever mentioned nothing about it was mentioned. You Ain't GonNa be across the street from Emmanuel Ame church where we had the Mosey Greece thank assassination of worshippers and not mentioned that now says now You're going to be in Charleston. North Charleston has is addiction rate in the country according to Princeton University. That started. So you can't come not talk about housing and affordable housing. We lead the nation to a few years ago in amputations because of the late texting diabetes. My Wife who recently deceased spent twenty years finding diabetes at one time was four out of the day diabetic. So you ain't GonNa come to Carolina that kind of record and you're GonNa be six blocks from the Medical University of South Carolina and not talk about healthcare so that to me is will not be these candidates to focus on what these people's experiences are as Il-il we are but some of our experiences and the candidate that can appeal to people their level of experiences. Not Up the thirty five thousand feet but go to them where they live what they're experiencing. And if you feel that you do well. You mentioned the white nationalist terrorist attack at Mother Emmanuel and the conversation it seems like in the Democratic Party about race has changed significantly over the past decade. I think quite famously. Obama ran a campaign. That de emphasized some of the differences between white and Black America. Saying you know there's no white America. There's no black America. There's these United States of America even though the field right now is white candidates. The conversation is a lot more specific about the ways that white and black America are different when it comes to health wealth criminal justice. All sorts of things reparations for example. What do you think of how the conversation about race has changed in the Democratic Party over the past decade? Just a conversation shows it's changed. We're not talking about race More than we did several years ago. If you're looking at Barack Obama he the need to tell you how black ears you looking at it. Yeah you know so these other candidates who ain't block. They may have to address the question but I think we need to be realistic. Even about reparations. The root word for reparations is repair. What do we need to do to repair? And that's what you're saying represents but for some reason and in this campaign the first time represents came up a C. Remember Mayor Peach Doug that saying he monetize it all these and how much money each person pose a gift for reparations. Nobody ever asked for the monitored five. We keep going there. What we do ask is. How are we going to repair our fault? I prepare for campaign two years ago. by reading Alexis de Tocqueville's democracy in America. There's one in in one volume That two volume book that said this. America's greatness is not because it is more enlightened in the nation but because they have always been able to repair its faults. That is what Mr Smith. So how do you repair the faults of Slavery? Not How you monetize it. But how do you repair the fault and if the candidates would go out with that that's what my ten twenty thirty zero but that's why you see Bernie Sanders immediately. Picked up on. The way is in verse and by Reparations Pete was talking about monetize Brennan says I'm GonNa Adopt Jim. Clyburn ten twenty thirty formula. That's I'm gonNA address reputation so use when the candidates talk about monetize ing reparations. That's the wrong way of doing things. What do you think the right way of doing things? Is What programs do you have? That will repair the faults of slavery were African Americans. Under educated South Carolina has in this constitution and has been reaffirmed by the Supreme State Supreme Court. Recently that we guarantee a minimalist adequate education. Is that the way you could? That's what the concept of the state. So how do we deal that concept of what's minimum? How do you maximize that? Not How you monetize it but how you maximize education. How do you bring a healthcare? Not How you pay for it. How you make it accessible. That is what we have to do. And so I just think that This thing is so much more simple than people that are big looking at the analysis from the two thousand Sixteen Election Arguably Hillary Clinton could have one had she had gotten the kind of black turn out that President Obama got in two thousand and two thousand twelve now of course that was a historic candidacy. Maybe it was never going to be possible for Hillary Clinton. But what do you think? Democrats need to do in order to try to get turn out back up to two thousand eight two thousand twelve levels. Well do what we did in Alabama if you remember in a special election Alabama Doug Jones and people said. We met his in order to win over this. The black turn out in Alabama would have to be at Barack Obama's levels in a and that ain't going to happen. I can tell you how many times I've heard that. However when they did the analysis the black turnout was one point above what it was. Why because we engage the African American community. We didn't talk at their. We sent people down. They're engaged. They're on their levels and they turn out for Doug Jones. We give them a candidate that they could relate to Doug Jones was a candidate relate to Doug Jones was not running for the United States Senate when he decided that he needed to repair fault. It was a fault for the judicial system to exonerate ought to avoid prosecuting. Those people who killed those little four girls and he got to be The attorney general he went after them he prosecuted them he found them guilty that endeared him to that community and nobody was more get between that community here the candidate irrespective of what part of the candidate in that will do those things that are necessary to make the system work he made judicial system were for the Senate or the world send us as well of those siblings of those children. I've talked to the father I've talked to the sisters and I know what they're feeling and so I said to people. Listen the resources down there. This man people down there Doug Jones GonNa win this election and he wanted so Doug Jones perhaps an example of a white candidate who gaps. I'm curious looking at Pew. Research Center Data White Democrats in particular have become much more liberal over the past two decades now a majority of White Democrats identify as liberal. That's not the case for black and Hispanic Democrat absolutely. That number is closer to thirty percent and I think the trump campaign see some of that and says we're going to go after voters of color. For whom the Democratic Party? Maybe too liberal. Are you worried at about that? Divide that exists now between maybe white liberals and more conservative voters of color in the party. Yes and that's what I'm talking about. We're not saying reality versus rhetoric all this liberalism. That's a bunch of rhetoric. Just look at. We regain the house this time. Why not because for Progressives defeated for Progressives in pick up a single thing in those four races that everybody talks about is fine? She beat another Democrat. You know I love She's is fine. She replaced another Black Democrat. As you go down through it but all of a sudden because these other people winning seats Lauren Underwood. She wins a seat against an incumbent. Republican in the district. That's four percent African American. Those are the people that flipped the house. And so when you got all these people with all those liberal rhetoric. It doesn't mean a thing in this district everyone you are house. Majority Whip Party. Unity is your job in part. What do you do facing those kinds of divisions in the party? I mean you mentioned a Alexandra classroom. Cortez she said that in any other country she and Joe Biden would not even be in the same party so facing the nomination and just a general election coming down the pike. What do you think leadership or progressives need to do in order to work out their differences? Nothing there are differences. That's what I'm saying would need to direct our attention to what we can do for people who are trying to participate in this process. What would you do for them? Their families and their communities. That's where we need to folks out attention and I think that's where we're making a big mistake. People ask for time. How do you get such strong support from the back end humidity? How did he get us? Prone support From the Chambers of Commerce I get support for the National Chamber of Commerce. I have never sacrificed principles one time. Never and you look at my voting record. Have a voting record That any so called Liberal Would be embarrassed with you. Hold onto your principles but you make sure that you make programs work for them so I don't talk about Reparations as a thing I'll talk about how we repair faults. That's what's two thirds all about. That's what My student reducing student loan debt. I didn't go out and says I'M GONNA emanate student on that. We got candidates. I'm more in limited. Your student loan debt. I'm going to give you free childcare or give you free college education come on so you clearly doesn't agree with that way of campaigning. Or is there any aspect of what? Progressives are arguing that you think is right that you say you have point we can learn from you. I'm a progressive. I guess okay so perhaps more liberal parts of the party that we've been discussing be practical drink pads but I mean. Is there any any part of their appeal to the public? You think is correct that you say okay we can learn from you Alexander Cortez or Bernie Sanders and take a page out of your book absoluteness. Jamaica. I believe in everybody. Having access to healthcare problem with the goal the problem is how do we get there by the having access to affordable housing? How do we get there? That's where I disagree. I don't think this goal disagree with the approaches. And you're not going to do in South Carolina Georgia Florida Mississippi Alabama Texas. The approaches. GotTa be different. How does call an RN? Defeat the immediate past chair of the Republican National Committee. How does he feel in the district near the B block? He did it by appealing to people's basics. Do you think that if Bernie Sanders wins the nomination that the Democratic Party will lose the general election in the fall? I think it would be very very hard for us to win. We don't have to lose if he's right and remember now he keeps saying if I'm the nominee I'm gonNA turn out all these new voters. He's saying that because he was going to be required if you turn them out. He wins if he doesn't we lose all. I'm saying that George McGovern didn't bring new voters and we cared on the one st just wrapping up here. I know your endorsement as forthcoming have you ever endorsed? Someone and later regretted giving out that endorsement. Yes another elected official. Not An elected official. I regret Feeling the class Thomas will get in touch with his roots when he got to be is a pretty good justice. I will go to my grave regretting ever having to convert to say about his candidacy for the United States. Supreme Court Just didn't think anybody Could have that myself. Hey I thank you sir. Thanks so much for taking time to that.
Cuckoo Bird Migration Stuns Scientists; Daycares Face Reopening Challenges
"From NPR and Wbz I'm Robin Young. I'm Jeremy. Hobson it's here now. President trump plans to issue an executive order on police reform today in an effort to respond to the protests around the country, calling for action to address police brutality House Democrats unveiled a plan for police reform last week, and joining us now is the highest ranking African American in Congress. The majority whip James Clyburn of south. Carolina is on skype congressman. Thanks for being here. Government. Well and you were on CNN the other day, and you said that nobody is going to defend the police, but advocates including one of the CO founders of black lives matter say that it doesn't mean totally doing away with public safety, but reinvesting money from large police budgets into schools housing, mental health, etc. Do you agree with those goals? Yes I. Do and I also agree. With words, having consequences and I believe very strongly and I've been A. Of all that we'll fight against today, but I don't WanNa. See this movement destroyed because someone takes a headline, and then undercut the efforts, and so that's why I'm saying. Let's say what we mean. We restructure policing in this country. We want to reorder. The way we do policies and procedures pieces. I have been crying for restructuring a long time, and so I stand by what I said. Let's keep the goals in the headline. Let's put headlines out there that we run people away from the calls. Well. What do you think will come out of this? Do you think that something meaningful as the Civil Rights Act or the voting rights? Act will come out of this movement. Yes I. Do we need to restore the voting rights that we know that his was gutted? by Chief Justice Roberts I. Don't know what can be more important than voted. and. I don't see this kind of clamoring. For Restoration of the Voting Rights Act. That's what's going to save us in November. Because this is not just about the restructuring I'll judicial system. This is about restructuring our healthcare system. covid nineteen has revealed some real issues in healthcare delivery system that we know has address impact. Against people of Color, so let's just they focus on all of these things and not let one headline Joe's. We'll do you think though that Republicans will go along with what Democrats want to do or do you think you'll be able to find common ground even with President trump to get something passed now while the iron is hot. Yes, it can if we stayed together. If we have solidarity. In this 'cause we can get much of what we need to get. You may not get all of it, but we'll get none of it if we allow sloganeering to undercut the calls. It! You've supported studying reparations in the past. Do you think passing some form of reparations might be possible in this moment? I always say the words for reparations is repair these fault lines that have been opened up needs to be repaired and do they stint? That reparations mean to repair I am totally supportive when you start talking about reparations in terms of monetary issues. Then you lose me because nobody can put a value. On the loss of education, nobody can put a value on the loss of life. I WanNa just finally. Ask You about a couple of other major issues covid nineteen cases are rising dramatically in your state of South Carolina just said a new daily high record yesterday of nearly eight hundred new cases. Why do you think that is? I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people are not being skillful as it should be. I think a lot has to do with the fact that we do not have the leadership at the national level that we should have. We should not have fifty states doing fifty different things. We all have one coordinated effort coming from our national government led by our president and doing what is in the best interest of this country. Will there be another economic relief bill in the trillions of dollars? Do you think from Congress this summer? Well, it remember. The house just passed a three trillion dollar bill. Call the heroes. Act is now over in the Senate Mitch. McConnell boasts about running a graveyard. They're in good legislation. So, there should be another at least three trillion dollars sitting in the cast, one of which goes to state and local governments. Many of them on fiscal he is from July. One to June thirty by the end of June thirtieth a lot of cities, a lot of towns and counties are going to be in the bad place. Finally! Congressman we all remember the role that you played in helping Joe Biden's candidacy a back before the South Carolina primary as you look forward now. Do, you have advice for him on who he should pick for VP, and do you think he should accept the nomination for president in front of a crowd like president, trump will do. First of all I do. Offer advice. To the campaign, on various things do so in private and not discussed those compensation. In the. But as far as his acceptance of the nomination. I think you ought accept it like a leader of this country update accepted utilizing the best practices when dealing with a pandemic this whole thing of needing a crowd in all the to boost your ego. I don't think the vice-president needs that. This vice president is demonstrating what needs to be done in Oughta. For the soul of America the goodness of America. To Be Sean through. I've said often. And I really believe that most Americans. Or good people. In America is a great nation, but this rank news is under threat because how goodness seemed to be dissipating. Congressman James Clyburn. Democrat of South Carolina the House Majority Whip Congressman. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Well let's get reaction now to the news today. That North Korea destroyed its joint liaison office with the South, a dramatic, but may be symbolic display of anger, the offices in the north near Demilitarized Zone. It's been empty for the last couple of months because of the coronavirus outbreak, but it's destruction comes during deadlocked nuclear talks, and it raises questions about who's in charge Kim Jong, UN or his sister Kim, Yo, Young Jim Walsh is here now. Security analysts. He's also with MIT security, studies program and Jim. North Korea's news agency made statements about how this was because the north was enraged about defectors. The News Agency called them scum and the scam of protecting those defectors meaning South Korea. But? Your thoughts on this whole thing well first. You have to give them credit. They do have a flair for the dramatic whether in their name calling in their. ACT SO. This was rather dramatic. Visual I don't know how important it will be in the long term your right to say this real. The origins of this in a small way started a week two weeks ago. The North had stopped answering calls on the north-south hotline. The South would call them and they wouldn't answer and the North was really angry. Their super-sensitive over south. Korean citizens, dropping leaflets from the loons or floating down a river that have pamphlets that are anti North Korean, and now we have this demo, a demolition of a liaison and you might say well. Isn't that weird? You know after all South Korea has been trying. Trying to reach out and improve relations. Why would North Korea bike back and of course with North Korea? You never know what the answer is because it's a closed society, but there are different possibilities, and you referred to one of the Possibilities Robin? One is that this has something to do with their negotiating strategy, and ultimately the US this is one step in a set of steps, really aimed at the US, but the another possibility and perhaps they co exist has to do with North Korea's internal politics because you're right to say the Kim's sister played a surprising and unprecedented role in this tiff. With South Korea and it seems as if she her profile is being so both possibilities are in play that this is a tactic on the Puerto North Koreans that ultimately will lead to pressure either on a us-south Korean alliance, or on the US itself or that. Maybe this reflects some preparations for the part of the Kim Dynasty. And people are wondering. is his sister running the show now? I want your thoughts on that, but also might this also be some you know noisemaking. Hey, US and everybody. Everybody's worried about corona virus. And now you've got these. You know this race reckoning. What about us? Yeah, absolutely, and you'll remember. We talked several times last year that last year, Kim and said you know. Know if we didn't make any progress by January twenty twenty, I'm going to up the pressure. And then twenty twenty km and nothing happened, but what happened instead was cove it, so we all sort of set that aside, but there's been a number of things you've had increased rocket tests. You have north. KOREAN? Foreign Ministry officials threatening to disrupt the US election, I mean the volume of. Stuff here. Has Risen to the level of a major crisis, but it looks like they're starting to step up the pressure. Hoping to wring concessions, either from South Korean President Moon or from. President trump in an election year. Just, got about twenty seconds. Is His sister running the show? Well number one I have no idea I tend to be so. Well I'M GONNA. Say No, but I'm going to say this. I was one of those people who said don't get too freaked out. Just because Kim disappears for a couple of weeks, it's happened before. When, he returned, he didn't look good, so something may be afoot here. Okay Jamal here now security analyst. He doesn't answer to these questions. Thank you so much, thank you. International travel is on hold for most of the world during the pandemic, but not for birds scientists at the British trust for Ornithology, recently tracked a common Cuckoo as it flew from southern Africa to Mongolia a journey of more than seven thousand five hundred miles. It's one of the longest animal migrations ever recorded Chris. Houston is a senior research ecologist at the British trust for Ornithology, and he joins us now to tell us more about this discovery. Chris welcoming. You called this the Mongolia Kuku project. Tell us what you found. Well since last summer, we went to Kirk station in northern Mongolia and we put tax on five cookies. Four were common cookies. One was an oriental KK And the the Oriental Cookie Mike Writers. We tracked it with a satellite tag up till the northern part of central Siberia, but the other four birds stayed around the rigging station in Mongolia until last autumn when they started to migrate, and they actually migrated southward through China to them, actually ended up all the way. Ninety degrees of latitude away in southern Africa so Yeah, it was one of the longest Mike rations which has been recorded for Lampert certainly it begs the question. I suppose as to why a bird from eastern Asia goes all the way to Africa for the winter. were. Did you get any answers to that? Why do they have to go all way that far? Well, the KOMO CUCKOO is basically an African species which is expanded its breeding range all the way across Eurasia so from the far west. The British royals all the way, too far eastern Russia. But until we this project at its predescessor, when we tax and birds in China in two thousand and sixteen, no one knew where the Asian birds would end up wintering, and it was thought that they may end up in southern Asia, but there was a possibility that go to Africa, so we were quite surprised to find. It did actually do that theoretically. Birch Migrate Short distances possible to survive, and this is the longest migrations and showed that they were able to overcome the cost in terms of the energy. It takes to fly there the time it takes them to fly there and also exposure to hazards along the way, so obviously flying two or three thousand kilometers over the ocean is quite. Interesting to do Brian of course when you move, yeah, and you move to a new place time, so you're supposed to predators, but. Spring conditions as rain for the tropics moves from North to south in the autumn within from south to north factor in the spring, so they're able to follow the reins of the rains produce food. Is the birds depend on so actually? The is not a problem for the tool. and. How often do they stop along the way? So? They have what's called a stage migration and they actually stopped quite a few times. They have a two or three major stopovers. Stop most days with over the desert, the major stop over for a Mongolian. CUCKOO before they fly over to Africa visit India, where they'll put on quite a lot of autumn, and then they wait for what's called the Inter. Tropical Convergence, so frontal system, which takes rain from north to south and behind that they have. Easterly winds taking them across the ocean, so it's safe and circle property, even serene passage for them, and once they're fattened up and they've got these titans. Something they do quite comfortably, and then they gradually move south within Africa following the rains. which leaves it its power for so fresh spring like conditions, which produces lots of food for the cookies to feast. Now! This may seem like a silly question to you but I have to ask. How did they know that? They need to fatten up before that part of the journey? And how did they know that? Certain wins are going to take them where they WANNA go. Well that's a good question I. Think one of the triggers for them to show up or things like changes in India length so certainly in the UK. We know that if you have a cat, we're. We actually had captive cuckoo in. Any fat until we put it outside, and it was, and I was spices, daylight Mrs, we did that. He can see the days get shorter, it Paul a lot of fat and was ready for Migration so that that's that's one of the one of the cues, and then once they get there. Do they then turn around and come back? They'll stay on there and they're fun of the nation for a couple of months before coming back if they find. Condition stay for couple of a couple of months, if the conditions they find deteriorate, they'll start to move once again. from there from from Southern Africa the bird we track back to Mongolia, spent the winter in middle of the winter in in eastern Zambia. So so yeah, they do have some stopovers, but they're pretty much on the move throughout the years maybe be. Be Six weeks to two months, each location is about the the maximum. Do I've always heard the winters nice in eastern. Zambia I'm sure that they enjoy their time there. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it looks very nice. move him down there now. What about the birds that you mentioned at the beginning that instead of going down to Southern Africa? They went up to Siberia. Yet what the first bird was. Gone through there was an oriental cuckoo. That's a different species again and I might be coming cookies which were operating in the area that we caught them. This bird migrated on for two or three thousand kilometers up into the northern part of central Siberia. Starting to move south after the common cuckoos already left Kirk and we were hoping to see where it was going to go. Because we think this species, the cut the Oriental Cuckoo properly winters in Southeast Asia, and even as far as Australia Unfortunately, we lost contact with that bird in central China, and we're not sure exactly why that is whether that was due to the tank, failing or the, but itself dying, nonetheless, unfortunately, what able to track it down to two location, which would have been a first for that species now are there longer migrations than this in the animal world. Yes certainly, certainly, the longest bird migration is the Arctic tern, which which must its name suggests breeds in the Arctic winters all the way down answer take, but certainly as far as Lambert's go. The the Common Cuckoo is actually proving to be probably the longest migrant, so this particular migration isn't the longest, but our colleagues from Copenhagen and their and their Russian collaborators tractor common cuckoo two years ago from the Far Eastern part of Russia not far from Alaska in fact in Kamchatka. Not, what all the way down to South West Africa. Namibia and in fact is the longest non migration which is. Being documented. Now you mentioned that sometimes the birds arrive in a place, and they don't want to stay there for very long because the conditions aren't good, is climate change having a big effect on these migration patterns that you're seeing? Yeah well, that's an interesting point. Something that we're looking at with respect to the common cuckoos that we have tracked from the UK. So most buds are getting back to the earlier in springs, the springs of warmer and therefore earlier, but the common cuckoo is one of those species, which isn't. It's only that and the common swift which aren't getting back much earlier. And they're also two species, which you wanted to go on quite severe decline, so we wondered if there's something linking the two there, so we re looking at the migrations of common cuckoos from their stuff over in west Africa before they moved northwards over the Sahara and looking at the. Detail in relation to the rainfall patterns, and it seems that the rainfall patterns when they do arrive. Just in time for the first two Fan because the rain brings productivity, which basis lots of insects for them to eat. They arrived just in time for these birds to fatten up in time to come to Britain, and it might be the. Habitat loss rather than climate is more of a problem for them at the moment Now from an evolutionary standpoint, why do they do this? Is this really the best outcome for this species to have to fly thousands of miles to breed? The cookies very closely related to bird called the African cricket. Stays within the tropics of Africa. It does move around a bit, but nonetheless it's a tropical species. All the time what happened is that common cuckoos evolved to migrate North into Europe and Eurasia to exploit spring conditions there, in fact, there proof parasite, so they actually know their eggs in the nests of other species, and let them bring up the the the young, but the same applies basically exploiting those hosts which are exploiting the abundant insects and things in the spring. In Eurasia. Why All cuckoos even from Far East as far eastern, Russia and China comebacks to. Africa is. A different question and I think it relates to the fact that. The cost of the migration, not as great as we thought so. There's plenty of food for the ball the way the breeding season is much later a month later in western Europe in the far. East so they've got plenty of time to make that journey as well and they seem to have really good stressful for instance flying over the Indian Ocean, so they don't seem to become much of a mortality cost for that as I mentioned before there's another species code the Oriental Cuckoo which. Probably winters not yet been documented very severi thirty in terms of tracking. In Southeast Asia Northern Australia, so it may be the did try and find another wintering ground in Asia. They would be calm. Find Competition from the Oriental Cuckoo, so so yeah, overall that might not be very much selection for them to to try and find a shelter migration and. Wintering ground that's closer to their breeding ground. What is the biggest question you still have about the coup? A good question well, what? We don't know very much about what's happening to the populations of common cuckoos in eastern Asia. We know that. In many many many populations of common cuckoos and other migratory species across the globe are are in record declined, but we don't know what's going on with the with the Asian populations, but certainly in Europe we. cuckoos from the UK for instance type two different routes to get into Africa, birds which Migrate Vice Spain rather than Italy seem to do less well than those migrate richly. There's a strong correlation between Yousef. This less successful, Spain, and the degree of population decline in on the pre on the breeding grounds, but trying to understand exactly what's driving the population declines, and therefore what we can do to try and reverse all stem the declines. It's something that we really focusing moments. That is Chris, Huston who is a senior research ecologist at the British trust for ornithology. He's been following. A number of common coups on there very long migration from Mongolia all the way down to southern. Africa Chris Houston thank you so much for joining US thank you. And, if you go to here, now, Dot Org, you can see what a common Kuku looks like I must say it looks very common kind of amazing that the fly as far as they do. But it was a nice break from the news, wasn't it? Today the government reported the biggest monthly surge in retail sales ever up about eighteen percent in the month of May. After falling nearly fifteen percent in April, assign of a rebound after the corona virus shutdowns meanwhile Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome. Powell testified in Congress today that the burden of the economic downturn has not fallen evenly on all Americans for more on all this. Let's bring in Robyn Farzad host public radio's full disclosure on member station VP EM Robin. Hello Jeremy and let's start with these retail sales figures. How do you square that such strong numbers with the fact that so many businesses are operating at a reduced capacity. If they're open at all, you have to take it with a fat asterisk. Because sales in May were still down. Six percent compared with last year, and people are still subsisting on special unemployment benefits which. Be Curtailed later in the summer so I would not re too much into this one month's number. All right well while we are digesting, those numbers were also watching the Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell on Capitol Hill Today for day, one of his Tuesday testimony in Congress this week, a race and inequality have been two theme so far. Let's listen to a little bit of what he said. Low income households have experienced by far the sharpest drop limit well job losses, Americans Hispanics and women have been greater than that of other groups. Now, it's interesting to hear him say that because the Fed has taken extraordinary measures to try to prop up the economy and. Perhaps contributed to income inequality. Tell us more about what Powell has been saying today. Well for starters I think headline here is maybe don't so much romance. This notion that everything is just going to go away and be great. In some sort of v-shaped bounceback. He did say the longer the downturn last degraded potential for longer term damage from permanent job, loss and business closures, and you did mention there warning about the disproportionate taken by low income, workers, minorities and women, and as a corollary on that, he urged Congress to continue with fiscal stimulus. It was kind of like guys look done everything I can and then some so. Some more bones. And yesterday, the Fed launched its much awaited main street, lending program, which is supposed to provide relief for medium sized businesses that were too big for those PPP loans that were part of the aid package from Congress but this main street lending program was announced back in March. Why is it just getting off the ground now? Jeremy. It's just such a departure from the feds traditional knitting as Leonard Banking System in the three months since it announced this this main street lending program officials twice have adjusted it to broaden the range of loan sizes and eligible companies There's another easing involved here. Extending the loans to five years with payments deferred for the first two years and today. You did see Powell emphasizing this proposal to add not for profit organizations to the roster. Now As you say what the Fed is doing right now is extraordinary for example. The Fed has never bought up corporate debt before this crisis. They're doing it now as you watch the markets jump. How much of that is because of the Fed's intervention? I have to say just from gut feeling. It has to be chiefly because of the Fed's interventions, because good news is just so rare, otherwise you consider that the central bank's balance sheet now has seven point two trillion assets up from about four trillion at the beginning of March. There's zero or near zero interest rates until at least twenty twenty two. The stock market is up more than forty percent from where it visited in late March correlation causation all the above I imagine. Farzad hosted public radio's disclosure. Thanks as always. Thank you Jeremy. We know are supposed to avoid packed outdoor gatherings, the barbecues and pool parties that have been responsible for spreading cove in nineteen, but what about moving gathering specifically packs of outdoor runners, cyclists, just one slice of life, big one Dr Richard Novak is head of infectious disease at the University of Illinois in Chicago, also cyclist, so Dr Novak. Some say the thinking is when you're outside. The wind disperses infected droplets. thinking although there's controversy around that. And mainline the controversies because there's really much information well, let's look at one of the few studies. It was a joint Dutch and Belgian paper, not peer reviewed, but it concluded that runners and cyclists who passed one another could potentially spray the virus much further than the six feet were told to social distance for a biker going eighteen miles, an hour could spray as far as sixty five feet for runner at a six four four pace, it could spray thirty three feet, and even a swift walker that spray that excavation could travel sixteen feet. Assimilation they did that in a wind tunnel, so all the calculations were based on the hair none moving at all. We don't know if that translates into risk of infection or not, where the atmosphere's constantly moving in the absence information, be probably the safest thing to continue to practice social distancing and what they didn't address is wearing a mask or face covering of any kind, obviously wearing a mask when you're running or biking uncomfortable especially, if you you're breathing rapidly. But there are some other face covering, so you can wear. That are not as constricting I personally use a gator fused a handkerchief if everybody were using those kinds of practices. I think it would mitigate to some extent the risk. We don't really know how much and we don't really know how much we need to. We know that there's a lab scientist. An hyman president of a DC Area Cycling Club, they have two thousand members, and she says she's noticing dense situations in multi use paths your sense of that you're. Experiencing when I've been going biking, and most of them are not wearing. Any tips face covering. Hence, so they're probably putting you at. ME At risk more than I'm putting them at risk, because I do use a face covering when I'm in a crowded situation, and then when the crowd open up in the path empties out I, can pull pull it down and breathe comfortably well. Passing is one thing, but the Belgian Dutch study also talked about you know people drafting with other people runners do that and they have an illustration of ood the droplets. You can see the droplets in the wake of the first person now going right into the second person right so that's a theoretical risk. We don't know how the effect of. When for example, in fact that, but if you want to be really careful I probably wouldn't slipstream because that's where you're going. Get the largest density of particles, and you probably need to give up on that little advantage. You get from slipstream. A couple of things in these crowded paths. People might be unwittingly slipstreaming. Running behind someone, and they need to know too that you are in the wake of that person's exultation, bright I think that if you continue to practice social distancing as much as possible on the pats, and if you wear sort a face covering, you can try and reduced any risk of spreading droplets, remember the droplets have gravity. They're dropping to the ground, and there's also the effect of operation. Runner's world wrote about this in April. They asked the question. Is it safe to run outside? And they said yes, as long as you're alone. umass Dartmouth immunologist wrote that transmission depends on how long you're exposed and the viral load, and he concludes it more than five minutes would be his threshold for danger, but running groups and cycling groups. They might be together for two three hours chatting and we know the relations will be bigger because they're exerting so. Where are you on group exercise? For Indoor activities, ten minutes of contact within six feet is considered a significant exposure, but that's somewhat arbitrary in not based on a lot of data. I think that you can't practice running or riding in a group the same way you did before Cova nineteen at. We can't be that together if you WANNA reduce your risk, we have issues now where schools are trying to bring back their athletes and one approach, a lot of schools are doing is that they're quarantine athletes before they can start exercising with the other athletes, but school's out. The Deepak attests everybody regularly. Most cycling running groups don't have that Richie Novak head of infectious disease at the University of Chicago Dr Novak Thank You my pleasure as great talking to you. And several new studies, including one in the Lancet support Dr Novak's position that masks can help prevent covid nineteen transmission in most situations, but Dr as important that parents understand that the recommendation is only for adults and children over the age of to find out more about that and a rumor going around about adult masks from Dr Robert gladder emergency physician at Lenox Hill Hospital in. New York welcome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate. It was first. Dispel a myth. There was a video circulating that claimed adults wearing masks could suffer from. From something called Hyper Karbi Ah. What is that and is that true well I wanted to stall that meth first and foremost hypercard is when you have elevated levels of carbon dioxide in your bloodstream that makes you really sleepy, and that can lead to the effect on the rain of you stopping breathing, and that can be fatal so first of all wearing a mask, regular, standard cloth mask, or even a surgical mask, or even ninety five would not preclude the movement of tiny carbon dioxide molecules, so you're dispelling that myth, but. Sort of in the. Same Category A lot of people are thinking about going back to working out. Maybe going back to a gym, those gyms might have to require masks. So what do you say to people who think that they will get sick if they have a mask on or feel like? They're not getting enough oxygen when they're working out, you've already said you're not getting hypercard via. But what are they feeling well? Well. I think there's a feeling that you're breathing that somehow impaired or inhibited when you're wearing the mask itself, but it's important to realize that you're breathing an oxygen and your expelling carbon dioxide actually is unction normally, even though you may feel that it's not so i. want to just remind everyone who runs everyone who works out than it is safe where a mask so talk about infants and toddlers. You say not under the age of two why? Infants four to five months of age, usually really at risk group, they are obligate nasal breeders, which means that they breathe primarily through their noses. They don't open their mouths degrees because of this. If they get a stuffy nose, they have this tight fitting mask on. They can't recognize and won't be able to really breathe through their mouths. As a result, they can actually become toxic and hypercard that means low oxygen in the blood and hypercard Bien means high carbon dioxide levels of love, which are which are toxic, and that ties into sids, sudden infant death syndrome in some sense because. What happens in those cases is that when children sleep on soft bedding, or if they for example have lots of covering that could impair their breathing, and that could lead to accumulation of carbon dioxide because of airway collapse, and also mechanics such as betting itself, so this mask issue is similar to sids in what we've been trying to emphasize. A Course infants spit up and grabbing it things so when you're not looking suddenly that mask could be I dunno around their neck. I'm wondering. If. That's an issue to actually when you have these loops Geico form a seal, basically over the mouth, lips and nose, and even around the neck. We have to be so careful and really these are things which we can proactively do to prevent young children from needlessly dying well and so no masks for infants toddlers under to. Is there anything else caregivers can do when they're in a grocery store or on a public bus to? To keep their kids safe now. We know that masks are mainly for keeping the transmission out from the person who's wearing it, but people do feel that there's at least mitigates to wear masks, so is there anything else people can do? If you have a Stroller, you can turn the carrier that's within a stroller. Turn the Stroller in a position. Where as you go forward? They're not facing equal in front of them the other possibility. Possibility is to cover stroller in order to prevent any potential particles or any kind of exposure, also washing your hands. We can't forget about that. What about face shields and little kids? I would err on the side of caution and really avoid the face shield. There's still potential for accumulation of CO two and for lack of airflow so I. Think Children are really not adapt and an adaptable to these environmental situations and again this hazard. Hazard you know the carbon dioxide build up, and everything else is because these little people have smaller airways. That's right I think you bring up a great point. The Airway diameter it's smaller and air exchange is not as efficient because of that carbon dioxide becomes a problem and be problem in infants and young children were is not an adult's Dr Rubber gladder emergency physician at Lenox. Hill Hospital in New York. Thank you watch leisure thinking. Goverry in engineering and science learn more at mathworks, dot Com and new a personalized program based in psychology to help people understand their motivations change their habits and lead healthier lives learn more at neum and OEM DOT com. This is here now. Parents trying to balance working from home with family life may be breathing a sigh of relief now that some daycare centers are starting to reopen around the country, but here now Peter o'dowd reports. Some parents aren't ready to send their kids back to school, and that could be trouble for the industry. Every so often are four year old. Marissa peers out the front window of our home toward her empty daycare center down the street and longs for her friends and teachers, yes. Do you miss your school. Thank you not nps and what about your friends? Matteo. All my friend where we live in Massachusetts, daycares are starting the process of reopening with some new restrictions. Do, you want to go back to school why? Not because you want to. Damascus on I. Yeah, that's right. You're right. But at my house, we've been wondering. Should we send them back just because we can? Stephen Kramer has been thinking about this, too. He's the CEO of Bright Horizons, a national chain of childcare centers. You May, while we're in the process of doing this interviews here. My four year old crying. That is in strange ways. That's a soothing sound to me. Given it reminds me of being back in childcare centers yeah Kramer says eighty percent of bright horizon, seven hundred US childcare centers shut down when the pandemic hit, and now that things are flickering back to life. He says parents have a lot to consider. I would just encourage you to make sure that you ask all of the requisite questions to make sure your child care providers taking all appropriate precautions with your family, and what's the top question in your mind? Tough question is what is different. In how you are operating Kramer says that should start with following CDC in local guidelines. Will teachers be wearing masks? Hauer they in link, parents parents need to remain outside the classroom, so they making sure the group sizes are limited, and here's another question I have. How will a bunch of preschoolers do that? Whole six feet apart? Thing will certainly be keeping. Children head to toe in terms of how they sleep during that time, but. But by in large, it is unrealistic to think the children will social distance a publicly traded company like bright horizons will probably have an easier time with this new normal, but for the little guys childcare providers are scrambling to make ends meet, and to pay their bills. Rian Ovan runs the National Association for the Education of young children. The vast majority of the early childhood market is small one site providers, so it's it's primarily. Primarily a small business industry, and those small businesses are hurting a survey from. Alvin group shows that nearly half of the providers wouldn't survive a two week shutdown without government help when Congress passed, the cares act. It's set aside three and a half billion dollars for child care, but Alvin says the industry needs at least fifty billion over the next two years. Economics of childcare is fragile on typical day when you layer and pandemic. Pandemic and require the kind of low enrollment necessary to be within public health guidelines. Then the economics are completely upside down, and you lose money by having your doors open. That's exactly the problem for Jennifer. Washburn she runs the I. Kids Childcare Enrichment Center in the town of Benton Kentucky. We're so small. We don't even have a target. And she had this reaction when the pandemic hit and the state put restrictions on her business. I kids reopened this week to the general public after limiting its service to families of medical professionals that actually wasn't much of a lifeline for the business state ordered class size reductions meant Washburn had to cut twenty childcare slots and more staff required for things like wellness checks now have to staff for ten children Oh my goodness budget. And Other. With this is that they're working with a group of children whose parents are healthcare workers, and they're potentially contaminated and so wouldn't that. Be Appropriate as a group of people that should get a hazardous duty pay. Yes. It is so tightened even more so I think we tighten so much. The balloon broken. We were actually we are operating and in twenty thousand dollars a month loss at this point, which means it costs more to stay open than closed one hundred percents, one hundred percent Washburn tap the payroll protection program for a fifty thousand dollar loan, and got another twenty three thousand dollars from the cares act that money is gone washburn dipping into reserves and now she's worried about the future of her center and about the kids. They having the opportunity to slower to play, meet with France. It's more than just learning ABC's to learn how to interact with one another. They don't have that. Heath on Horsea. On the. Is She on the Horsey here? That's my family is tempted to send little Marissa back to daycare right now. Her time learning is limited to a few weekly Zoom Kohl's with a speech therapist. Actually Lance Marissa. We're not sure daycare is worth the risk of infection. Even if schools like hers desperately need parents like us to come back. You did a great job. For here now I'm Peter Odell. And here now is a production of NPR. Wb are and association with the BBC World Service. I'm Jeremy Hobson. Young is here now.
AP One Minute Headlines Jan 21 2019 18:00 (EST)
"There's firefighter Raphael Puerto yet for firehouse subs. Introducing the new spicy Cajun chicken sub Cajun seasons grilled chicken, breast zesty, cherry peppers and housemaid Cajun male just five fifty five for immediate. Remember a portion of every sub you buy cubs. Provide lifesaving equipment for personal sponsors via subs until more subs saved. More lives. Limited time only plus tax participating locations by ourselves. With donate. A minimum of one million dollars in two thousand nineteen to the firehouse subs public safety foundation by building point one one percent of every purchase king honored. I'm Tim Maguire within AP news minute on this Martin Luther King junior day ceremonies honoring him held across the country, including ebony Baptist church in Atlanta after Delta Airlines provided a grant to the National Park Service to open the church and Columbia, South Carolina. Congressman James Clyburn, brought up a phrase used by President Trump and his supporters problem is making America's greatness, apply fairly and equitability to all of its citizens. Democrats wanting. Be their party's presidential nominee. Also took part in events New York Senator Kirsten gillibrand telling crowd in Harlem, king inspires, all Americans. As right to do. What's right? He taught us the power of love over hate the latest to announce California Senator Kamala Harris love my country. And I feel a sense of responsibility to stand up and fight for the best of who we are and unprepared to fight. And I know how to fight I'm Tim Maguire. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans off for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. Doctoral Gebran HEC you Arizona's premiere private Christian university become an authority in your industry with an affordable edge. Occasion. That doesn't sacrifice quality. And she see you. Learn us have access to our Dr leadership team counselors and one on one faculty. Support your dissertation this year. Investing yourself out change the world, find your purpose at G C you where advanced technologies Dr education. Private Kristen affordable nonprofit, visit g c u dot EDU slash doctoral.
Monday, February 24, 2020
"From Washington D. C. This is Westwood One Daily News for February twenty. Four th twenty twenty. I'm John Trout. President trump and first lady. Melania are in India for a two day visit the trip featured rally at one of the world's largest stadiums with prime minister. Modi and stop the Taj Mahal. The first lady and I just traveled eight thousand miles around the globe to deliver a message to every citizen across this nation. America loves India. America respects India and America will always be faithful and loyal friends to the Indian people. Russian election interference takes center stage once again correspondent Linda. Kenyon has that story any Russian. Interference is outrageous Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer responding to reports the newly former acting director of national intelligence. Joseph Maguire briefed members of the House intelligence committee about Russian election interference but choir was ousted by the president shortly thereafter but mark short chief of staff to Vice President. Mike PENCE DENIES. Mcguire was fired. His position is supposed to be completed by March twelfth. He's not going to be renominated. He and in fact when this position came on was reluctant to serve in this role short also tells Fox News Sunday. The briefing now reportedly said Russia is again interfering in. Us elections to help. President trump is just plain wrong. I think that there's not intelligence that said that the Russians are trying to help Donald Trump win election. We know the foreign governments trying interfere in elections to try to chaos Senator Chris Murphy appearing on CNN state of the Union says Russia never stopped interfering. They don't just get involved in elections. They are involved every single day and analysis of what they've been doing on twitter since two thousand sixteen has been pretty clear they're weighing in over and over again in support of right wing causes in support of Donald Trump's political agenda the intelligence briefing also reportedly said the Russians are trying to help Bernie Sanders national security adviser. Robert O'Brien speaking on. Abc's this week that's no surprise. He moved into Moscow. Our national security advisor should stay out of politics and that is a political statement. Senator Murphy on CNN when it comes to Russian election interference South Carolina representative. James Clyburn has doubt. I'll always believed that the Russians had been at this for a long time. I think that they've used some states. In order to practice their craft and I think South Carolina was one of them. Clyburn told full court press with Greta van Susteren election meddling remains a very serious problem. We need to be open about this with. Stop trying to hide the facts. We know the not just Russia but other countries have been middling how primaries as well and he says there's no reason for the Republican controlled Senate to be holding up the election. Security legislation already passed by the House. Solid gives consent so Mitch. Mcconnell is sal on this he must be consenting for it to take place Senator Schumer says. There's too much at stake to allow this to happen. That's the beginning of the end of this country. If we don't believe we have free fair elections that leave it up to the American people. In American candidates were gone Linda Kenyon Washington. There's a Democratic presidential debate tomorrow night in South Carolina. The PALMETTO state was supposed to Cement Joe Biden as front runner but Bernie Sanders continues his surge Bob Costantini reports Bernie Sanders fresh off Nevada caucus win hitting the upcoming states speaking softly to a boisterous crowd in San Antonio. Don't tell anybody Wanna get them nervous. We'll go to win the Democratic primary for president trump to the senator from Vermont. No I think it was a great win for Bernie Sanders. We'll see how it all turns out. They've got a lot of winning to do. I hope they fairly frankly. I don't care who I run against. I just hope they barely frankly. The trump campaign would love to have to run against sanders where the president and others can throw the socialist label in make it stick however some national polls show sanders ahead of Mr Trump in a hypothetical matchup for well respected Congressman James Clyburn appearing on. Abc's this week. The next primary. In his State of South Carolina could be problematic for Sanders and south. Carolinians are period leery about that title Socialist and African American icon in the US House. Clyburn is aware that Joe Biden is had strong support among black voters in his State and elsewhere. Next Saturday's primary maybe make or break for Biden who spoke at a Charleston Church Sunday. Our core values are literal. Standing in the world are very democracy. Everything's made America. America is at stay other candidates. Who would like to Catch Bernie? Sanders are sounding the alarm about having a democratic socialist head. The ticket peed booth judge wanting a Democratic Party that pays attention to the effect that our nominee will have on those crucial House and Senate and other races across the country. Democrats are hoping to take control of the Senate with the November elections. Bob Costantini Washington the spread of Corona virus continues posing major health concerns as the virus moves beyond the Chinese province where it originated corresponding Clayton. Neville says more than thirty cases have been confirmed in the US. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Confirms Thirty six cases of the corona virus in the United States including eighteen former passengers of a cruise ship. That was quarantined in Japan but US. Health officials aren't panicking CD director Robert Redfield. The immediate health risk of this new virus to the general public is low in our nation the coming days and weeks or likely to bring more confirmed cases here and around the world including the possibility some person to person spread. But our goal of the ongoing. Us Public Health responses to contain this outbreak and prevent sustained spread of the virus in our country before leaving for his trip to India this week president trump raised. Us health officials for their work. Great doctors in the world. We have it very much under control. We accepted a few people as well. Number People Very well good fine and they should be getting better fairly soon. Very interestingly we've ad though death overseas South Korea's president has put the country on its highest alert for infectious diseases and says officials should take unprecedented powerful steps to fight a viral outbreak. At least six hundred corona virus infections there and six deaths and in Italy officials scrambling to contain rapidly rising numbers of new infections the largest amount outside Asia at least three dead in one hundred fifty infections in that country life in some Italian towns completely disrupted twenty deaths now outside China a country that's lost more than two thousand from the virus. President trump was asked if China's leaders should be doing anything different to fight the corona virus outbreak presidencies. Working very very hard. I smoked working very hard. I think he's doing a very good job. It's a big problem but residency loved this country working very hard to solve the problem and he was off the problem doctors around the world on high alert and medical officials here in the US still using quarantine to prevent an outbreak. I'm Clayton Neville Westwood. One Daily News for Monday February. Twenty four th twenty twenty. I'm John Trout.
Trump Wants to Ban TikTok, NASA-SpaceX Mission Success, & Unemployment Benefits Expire Monday, August 3rd
"It's Monday August third president trump wants to ban TIKTOK. Info on the NASA spacex mission success plus unemployment benefits have expired why trump's team is interested in Biden's VP pick and more. Welcome to Rob Song, podcast where I bring you the latest Progressive News and politics and ten minutes or less I'm Robert Cunningham thank you for tuning in. Let's get informed. So president trump announced on Friday night that he wants to ban Tiktok Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said that trump would be making an announcement on these matters in the coming days he said this on Fox News Sunday morning futures where he also said that Tiktok, the Chinese owned short form video APP needs to be taken down via executive action in addition to Tiktok. Mike. POMPEO. Pointed to we chat, which is a Chinese messaging APP saying that both of these are feeding data directly to the. Chinese Communist Party quote for a long time a long time. The United States just said well goodness if we're having fun with it or if a company can make money off of it, we're going to permit that to happen president trump said enough going on the secretary of state added and we are going to fix it and so he will take action in the coming days with respect to a broad array of national security risks that are presented by software that connected to the Chinese Communist Party. Microsoft has emerged as wanting to potentially by all US operations of tiktok accents reports that trump does have a deal on his desk where Microsoft would lead acquisition of the US operations of six talk and Microsoft seems to believe that it's possible that a total separation can happen from tiktok parent company by Dance. It's important for you to understand that presidents normally can't just order a ban on individual companies like this but the fact that Tiktok has a foreign owner allows the Treasury Department to have broad. Authority over it. Now, at this point, it's unclear whether trump is going to allow Microsoft to buy it or if trump is just going to push for an all out ban, we don't know. But what we do know is that this is super weird coming just months before an election six does have one hundred, million US users, and so it is rather strange move it could alienate some I mean granted I don't know if it would make much of a difference, but it just seemed strange. NASA astronauts Doug Hurley and Bob Bankin are safely on earth after a historic flight to and from the International Space Station provided by SPACEX Axios says on Saturday afternoon both astronaut splashdown into the Gulf of Mexico after about two forty, eight PM eastern time a space x vessel was able to recover both astronauts from their crew, dragon? Capsule. Hurley in bank in two month mission was the first time that people have been launched into orbit from the United States. The end of the space shuttle. Program in twenty eleven. This new move of partnering for Space Exploration, with private companies can allow NASA to act more of like a buyer instead of a provider of these services now and will free up NASA's budget to focus on things like getting people to the moon and eventually other planets in the future. In fact, NASA and SPACEX already have another trip planned this time for six months with multiple. NASA. Going up to the International Space Station, this will take place around late. September. So be on the lookout. Additional unemployment benefits of six hundred dollars per week expired on Friday July thirty first and reportedly the White House Senate. Republicans and Democrats are all know we're closer to a deal? Apparently, all sides are on board though for another twelve, hundred dollar check like was done with the cares act earlier this year the main point of disagreement is the additional unemployment benefits six hundred dollars extra. A month is what people have been receiving since the cares act was passed Democrats want to continue at that rate while Republicans want to. Bring that down to two hundred additional dollars per week while eventually moving holy to seventy percent of lost wages Republicans additionally wanted to get a one week extension on the six hundred dollars per week of additional benefits passed quickly. But the Democrats are refusing because they think that the Republicans are just GonNa. Use It as just a quick win and move on. But the Democrats are saying that they want a full robust bill. Now, the Democrats have proposed a three trillion dollar deal while the Republicans are looking to pass. A one trillion dollar deal, and as of yesterday junk Schumer the Senate Minority leader said that there were significant divisions remaining but good progress is being made quote. We made good progress. There are lots of things we are still divided on and we're not close to an agreement yet, but we are making good progress and I'm hopeful that we can get to an agreement. Now they're going to resume talks today. Okay. But do not be fooled. The Republicans are trying to place the onus here on Democrats but Democrats came. Up with a bill back in May the bill back in May like I said had a three trillion dollar price tag. It was approved by the House but then has not been voted on in the Senate and Senate Republicans want to have a one trillion dollar bill that does not do nearly enough in my opinion. So but as of right now you know who's GonNa Suffer America, the American people that are unemployed we just had on Thursday. One of the worse GDP records for quarter ever if not the worst. The percentage of GDP lost was close to thirty three percent. I hope we get a deal soon things are super hard to pass in Washington obviously, and I'm glad that the Democrats are sticking their feet in and trying to get this thing passed the Democrats are not perfect and I fear that they're going to cave too much here. But we've got to get something done because there is an eviction crisis looming we need to renew the moratorium on fictions. Now CNBC just posted a study recently that twenty two to fifty nine percent depending on the state that you live in of renters may be facing eviction as a result of the corona virus economic circumstances these numbers are horrifying and I'm sure this isn't the last time you'll be hearing about it. Trump's campaign paused ads over the weekend, which is really weird because they wanted to rebrand their messaging and new ads launching today are going to be depicting Joe Biden as a puppet of the radical left. This comes from two senior campaign officials but the most recent internal polls show that the puppet of the left's attack on Biden is going to resonate with voters and speaking personally in someone who lives in a very heavy trump territory. The this is the talking point that I've heard Oh Biden's not the problem it's. Going to be the VP you have to look out for as if Kamla Harrison. Some sort of crazy radical assuming he chooses someone like her speaking of the VP spot trump's campaign is very interested in that because the quote unquote radical left thing that they're going to be using their ads is a placeholder for whoever Joe Biden ends up picking. By the way, we will learn who Joe Biden is going to pick around on tenth multiple sources have suggested he said now he pushed back his self imposed deadline from. The first week of August to the second week and one source has said that it's going to be August tenth now. So be on the lookout here. No matter who Joe Biden picks. I think that Joe Biden is well-positioned. Of course, we all have to go out and vote that. This is not a matter of that we have to vote even if we live in California or Massachusetts or Oklahoma Even for God's sake, we have to vote for Joe Biden, but it doesn't really matter as much who he picks. Think this go around because trump's campaign is reportedly very upset that Biden doesn't have the unfavorability rating that Hillary Clinton did in two, thousand, sixteen, all of this trump at drama gotta be Biden's campaign to respond Andrew Bates. Director of rapid response said quote the American people know Joe Biden and after seven consecutive months of failed leadership during the worst possible health crisis in generations they know that our nation's capacity to join the rest of the world beating back cove nineteen has been crippled by one overriding burden donald trump. Representative James Clyburn of South Carolina said on Sunday that he believes trump is trying to put a cloud over the election and that he does not plan to leave office. If he loses Clyburn told CNN that the American people had better wake up to trump and he compared trump to Mussalini and said Russian President Vladimir Putin is akin to Hitler further representative Clyburn said quote I don't think he plans to leave the White House. He doesn't plan to have fair unfettered elections I believe that he plans to install. Himself in some kind of emergency way to continue to hold office. Now, all of this is to say everything that Clyburn is saying here means that we have to so overwhelmed the vote that trump cannot cheat. We have to force him out of office because on January twentieth at noon no matter how hard trump tries he will not be the president if we overwhelmed the vote and like Joe. Biden. So that's what we have to do. If you need help getting registered in your state, go to vote Dot Org. That's all for today. Thank you for tuning in if this show brings value. Be Sure to share it with a friend and let them know they should be listening to rob Saag podcast as well. I'll see you tomorrow. So make sure you're subscribe wherever you're listening to this so that you don't miss it have a great rest of your day.
Candidates Jockey For Position As Sanders Alternative Ahead of Tuesday Debate
"Hi this is jock. And I'M INSA boost city Philippines with my daughter and my son Frankie and we're attending the center walk festive home. This podcast was recorded at two thirty six. Pm On Monday February twenty. Four things may have changed by the time. You hear this okay. His show that sounds like a lot more fun than being here. I don't know if I was at that festival I'd be recording time stamp for. Do you think that was really to kids or just one kid changing his voice or were they even there at all or was he scientist do both of his kids voice proof that it's never too soon to start listening to? Npr politics podcast off. Sign up for that. Hey there it's the NPR politics podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover congress. I'm Dominican Montoneros senior political editor and correspondent and I'm Ron elving correspondent and we are not even one week removed from the last debate. And it's time to prepare for another one. Democrats will meet on the stage tomorrow night. In South Carolina there will be seven candidates this time one more from the last debate. Tom Steyer has qualified for that debate. Yep It's Deja Vu all over again qualified by virtue of his showing in one poll in South Carolina but that's all it takes. Yeah so going into this debate. I think it's fair to say coming out of Nevada. That Vermont Senator Bernie. Sanders is the front runner and has all the momentum going into South Carolina. I know a lot of people. Keep saying how can you say that? How can you say Bernie Sanders? The front runner or the man to be only three states have gone. Here's the thing Bernie. Sanders expanded his coalition in Nevada. In a way that I think a lot of us were surprised by. He'd been winning a quarter of the vote in the first two states in Ireland New Hampshire and then he wound up winning men. Women people with college degrees people without college degrees. He finished second with African. American voters are very close second to Joe Biden and even finished second with moderates and by the way one Latinos overwhelmingly and. I think that's a real key here to me. The big question going into this debate is do more. Democrats on the take aim at sanders to try to dent. That front runner status. That would be the time that would be the time to do it at this juncture after Nevada. It's clear there's nobody in his league so this is a moment when the other candidates have to realize either they stopped Bernie and South Carolina or this race is largely over. He could come out of Super Tuesday with hundreds and hundreds of delegates margin over anyone else and that will be impossible for any of them to catch and that means the most is online for Joe. Biden. I mean the former vice president has been saying that he can do well with voters of color. Well he had also been saying he could do well with white working class voters. That didn't go so well especially in New Hampshire if think about it Manchester certainly looks a lot like scranton. Pennsylvania didn't work out for Joe Biden. He didn't do well with Latinos got walloped like the rest of the field in Nevada after Americans he won. And that's GonNa be key going into South Carolina because in two thousand sixteen sixty one percent of the Democrats who went out to vote in that primary or black and Joe Biden needs to keep them on board. He's retained a degree of support with them. But we also have to talk about Tom. Steyer because he has spent more than twenty one million dollars on ads and he is specifically targeting the black community. We'll talk more about style but I also want to talk about former New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg not on the ballot in South Carolina but will be on the debate stage and after last week's debate. Not exactly a plus performance up there. Of course it was terrible performance by Mike Bloomberg. Didn't seem as though he wanted to be. There didn't seem as though he had prepared and all the other candidates came after him. And when you stop and think about it they were really taking their eye off the ball by doing so because Mike Bloomberg was not the big threat to them certainly. He wasn't in Nevada. They should have been more concerned about Bernie Sanders but instead it seemed as though they were all angry at the fact that he had made it to the stage largely just by spending four hundred million dollars or more on ads and they didn't feel he had a right to be there and they all wanted to get points with their own basis back home by going after Mike Bloomberg that was not the strategic. Move as we saw on Saturday. Well I mean that depends on if you're somebody WHO's not okay with Bernie Sanders being the nominee. Or if you're trying to you know need to take down Bloomberg because you're trying to push yourself into The nomination I mean Elizabeth. Warren certainly went after Bloomberg and did well with progressives. They thought she had a good debate. She's trying to use that as a way to sort of propel herself into the conversation. It didn't work out great in Nevada because so many people voted early. We saw three quarters of the vote actually happened early in Nevada. And if you look at the entrance polling she did pretty well with people who said they decided in the last few days but that was too little too late so I expect tomorrow night. She is going to be quite forceful in probably going after Bloomberg and probably going after most of the rest of the field except for maybe sanders. Because I think Warren and Sanders have had this nonaggression pact. And they're okay with one or the other being the nominee. I was on a phone call today with the Bloomberg campaign and they talked a bit about the debate strategy and they seem to echo point that Former mayor people to judge made following the Nevada caucus results saying that. It's a mistake if Democrats don't start taking fire at at Bernie Sanders because they believe not only will he lose to Donald Trump? They're saying that explicitly but that he could hurt Democrats all the way down the ballot and he said you know this idea that the moderates keep attacking each other at these debates is is wasted oxygen. This is the problem with the whole way that these primary and caucus systems are designed and we saw it for years ago in the Republican Party. Everybody wanted Donald Trump's voters and so they didn't want to go after trump too hard because they wanted his voters after he supposedly dropped out in. Well we never did. And they never went after him and they never coordinated their attacks on him and instead they attack each other toward each other down and Donald Trump emerged. He was not the consensus nominee at the beginning of that process. Neither was Bernie Sanders. But in this case we're seeing a mirror. Image really on part of the Democrats in making the same moves with respect to Bernie Sanders. Each of these people wants to be the nominee. They want to be president and they can't coordinate between themselves. You know the house may very well be the biggest risk when it comes to Bernie Sanders because you can see a world in which a you know a left wing populist with a strong base winds up beating a right wing natives populist nationalist In a general election we've seen it happen in Europe if basically you run a anything that has a deer in our next to it. They'RE GONNA get forty five to forty seven percent of the vote in you could see that world in which he winds up doing well in a national election. The problem in the House is that they've been so Gerrymander to be center right districts that even though the Alexandria Cossio Cortez's of the world got all the attention after twenty eighteen it were those forty plus moderates who were the ones who gave. Democrats the House majority. But here's my question. So we know that some elements of the Democratic Party are starting to freak out a little bit more and more Bernie being the nominee. Let's say tomorrow night. Everybody trains their sights on Bernie Sanders. Is it too little too late? You know look again. Only four percent of the delegates have been allocated and remember every single time. A candidate in this competition has gotten a degree of hot scrutiny. They've wound up coming down. You know you saw that with Elizabeth Warren. You saw that with Pete. Buddha judge every candidate so far it's happened to now is Bernie Sanders more like Donald Trump and all of those things in arrows come Adam and he's like teflon and it all rolls off or about to find out because everything that these candidates have. You're going to start to see and I've seen more and more on social media more of a Bernie backlash than I have seen previously. Okay well we need to take a quick break and when we come back we'll talk more about the South Carolina Democratic primary support for this podcast and the following message come from Google from Connecticut to California from Mississippi to Minnesota millions of American businesses are using Google tools to grow online the grow with Google initiative support small businesses by providing free digital skills workshops and one on one coaching in all fifty states helping businesses get online connect with new customers and work. More productively learn more at Google dot com slash growl. What's good Yo as you know? February is black history month and all throughout that month. Npr's codes which is going to be running a special series about the history of black resistance because as long as black folks had been oppressed in this country. Which is you know forever. We've also been fighting back. Listen and subscribed and we're back and the South Carolina. Democratic primary is coming up on Saturday. It's the last of the early state contests and the ones where two out of every three votes cast on. Saturday are expected to be cast by black voters. And you know I think. Is it fair to say that? No one has more at stake. In South Carolina Than Joe Biden. Absolutely fair to say he needs first of all to get endorsements lined up here from the last few people that he hasn't nailed down in the black community that would be James Clyburn first and foremost us at third ranking Democrat in the house he is the highest ranking African American in either the House of the Senate and he is someone who has legendary status in South Carolina and could help Joe Biden a lot solidify his situation a he may wait until after the debate. He may do something sooner. But if he endorses Joe Biden. Joe Biden has life if he wins in South Carolina. Joe Biden has life but he needs to get a w if he doesn't he's going to go into Super Tuesday looking like the guy got clobbered in every event in February. I had one person who is close to Jim. Clyburn say to me Earlier today that Clyburn thinks quote firmly that Bernie Sanders can't win and would hurt our chances to hold the House and win the Senate now if that's the case and he sees Joe Biden has the second to last best hope behind maybe Mike Bloomberg to beat Bernie Sanders in this nominating process. He needs to give him a boost here because otherwise someone like Tom. Steyer really could gut biden and wind up seeing his numbers collapse in. There is a way in which you could see Bernie Sanders pulling off a victory with not that high of a vote margin in South Carolina. I'm glad you brought up Tom Steiner. Because he's another candidate who has sort of bet it all in South Carolina and he's bedded all on getting out of the black community. He's gone into that group and said I'm really your guy. Forget about your longtime relationship with Joe Biden. There's no natural candidate for you in this field and if you stop and think about it. I'm really the guy and if he put out all these ads much like Mike Bloomberg is done. You can get a certain amount of attention you can get people talking about your name and Tom. Steyer has some assets and he can be a strong performer and debates. We'll see him on stage in Charleston on Tuesday night and he'll have a chance to close that sale if he gets enough of the black. Vote away from Joe Biden. That's probably the death knell for Joe Biden. So this entire field seems at this point at least among the survivors to have been constructed to dismantle the advantages that Joe Biden wants had and cracks in his firewall in South Carolina have led to the point. Where now you're wondering if the wall crumbles entire or we're going to get another data point on black voters a really important big data point on African American voters here because if Joe Biden is able to win them. Overwhelmingly that can tell you. He might have a lot of strength on Super Tuesday because half the states have significant black populations on Super Tuesday and only a few days later if though he and Bernie Sanders split the black vote. Well that's certainly tells you that sanders probably going to do at least as well. As Joe Biden on Super Tuesday with black voters in some of those states and given what Bernie Sanders was able to do to run up the margin with Latinos if he can replicate that on Super Tuesday in places like California and Texas. No candidate may be able to catch him. We're talking about the power black voters which is something we have said from the beginning because women and minorities make up a huge factor of the Democratic primary voter right but then what about the Kennedys seized like Buddha. Judge like worn light Klobuchar. Who Haven't yet proven that. They have that appeal. If they don't do well in South Carolina. Where did they go? Those those candidates go going into Super Tuesday. The question is why. Are you still running? The question has been. Why are you still running for other candidates? And they have said there really isn't a reason and they've dropped out one. After another Kamala Harris Cory Booker. Lots of people we thought would be around for a while for the candidates who are still in it after South Carolina. If you're not running just to in some sense or another torpedo Joe Biden then. Why are you running because you are not going to be accomplishing your own nomination for president? And perhaps they're trying to show enough strength to get the vice presidential nomination. We've seen people stick for a long time in order to eventually leverage their way to that but generally speaking that's not why people run for President. These people still somehow think that is going to happen for them. If not now then down the road somewhere they still WANNA stick in be president someday one thing. It seems important to not coming out of South Carolina. I wonder how much momentum you get considering the calendar. Just three days later. Is Those Super Tuesday contest? So even if Biden wins big. How much does that help him? Considering the short turnaround it's the last piece of information and the last piece of information as people go to vote is an important piece of information mentioned. It might not matter more than anything else but it is going to matter and people take that in with them. If the news is bad for a candidate. Who's had a lot of bad news? Then it's devastating if on the other hand you've had a lot of bad news and you get maybe one good showing like in South Carolina. There's still hope for that person. And maybe he can come out of the fourteenth St Voter Ram On march third and be viable again. At least get on to the next onto the next and be the new story it would help Joe Biden enormously or would help any of the candidates enormously to suddenly look like a survivor. Who TOOK THE PUNCH FROM? Sanders and came back. Look you know we had been saying. Joe Biden has to win big and South Carolina. Now it's gotten to the point where he just has to win. His campaign told me earlier today. That a win is a win and that if they win in South Carolina. What is the rationale for people to judge what is the rationale for Amy Klobuchar essentially urging them get out of the race because we have the right to the alternative to Bernie Sanders? And that's how everyone's looking at it. Now it's Bernie Sanders versus someone else. Who comes out of that side of the bracket all right? That's a wrap for today but we'll be back in your feeds late tomorrow night after the debate until then had to NPR dot org slash politics newsletter to subscribe to a weekly roundup of our best political online analysis. It'll show up in your inbox every Saturday to let you know what happened that week and what it all means. I'm Susan Davis. I cover congress. I'M DOMINICA MONTENERO senior political editor and correspondent and then I usually write that newsletter. And I'm Ron elving. Editor correspondent. Nice surely read it and thank you for listening to NPR politics podcast. Each of us is the star in the movie of our life. But how much of a role do we play in other people's movies? It was a really sort of palpable fear that they were going to reject me or worse. The unseen pressures we place on other people this week on hidden brain from NPR.
Rep. James Clyburn endorses Joe Biden ahead of South Carolina primary
"Now it's time for the last word with Lawrence O'Donnell ritual and at the end of that press coverage tonight Alex as our did a very good job of insisting that he's very happy that Mike Pence is now kind of on top of this because he insisted that Mike Pence can help make all of these various departments of government work. Which would be true if Mike Pence is actually good at that and we're not aware of any evidence that indicates that it is nice that Mike Pence has a job. I mean unlike other vice presidents. He hasn't been given an obvious thing to do in this administration. This is kind of the first thing they've given him in year. Four of the trump administration. I am comforted by the fact that Mike Pence does appear to operate kind of a normal staffing situation and maybe like a normal sort of policy process. At least he appears to have staffers that he doesn't fire every three days. The president does but the idea that this is something that he serve uniquely suited to and then Alex are didn't even know about the announcement until he stepped up to the podium and heard it doesn't inspire confidence. President Obama of course gave that job came to the Ebola crisis he gave. What is now the Mike Pence job to Ron Clain? Ron Klein is gonNA join US tonight with his reaction excites. How the government's handling excellent. Well thank you Rachel. Thanks Rosanna. Arquette will join US tonight. Harvey Weinstein is awaiting sentencing on a rape conviction in New York before facing trial on other rape charges in Los Angeles. Thanks in part to Rosanna. Arquette who did not testify against Harvey Weinstein but didn't tell her story about Harvey Weinstein in that first week that the stories were emerging. She told her story to Ronan Farrow. Who published it in the New Yorker two and a half years ago and that forced prosecutors in New York and Los Angeles take the accusations against Harvey Weinstein seriously. Rosanna arquette was one of the most famous actresses who came forward and in fame obsessed country in the fame obsessed town of Los Angeles. The fame of the actresses did in fact add weight to the charges. Rosanna arquette will join us at the end of this hour with her reaction to what she thought was she was never gonNa see everyone's convicted of rape and sexual assault charges. But first we begin with the presidential campaign in the final days before the South Carolina primary on Saturday people to judge deleted a tweet yesterday mocking quote. Marsteller for the revolutionary politics of the one thousand nine hundred sixty s presumably. He booted judge who was born in one thousand nine hundred eighty two deleted that tweet after someone told him that. The revolutionary politics of the nineteen sixties represents the single most honorable most important and most dangerous period protests in the twentieth century. People were being killed them because they participated in civil rights protests. People were being killed because they helped black people registered to vote in the south people were being killed for protesting the Vietnam War at Kent State University in Ohio and in nineteen sixty eight at the historically Black College of South Carolina state the highway patrol shot and killed three students and wounded twenty seven and one of the most horrific reactions to protest by law enforcement in that very brave period of the nineteen sixty s and the nineteen seventies. That people to judge now realizes he should not mock James Clyburn wants to South Carolina. State where he met his wife. Emily in one thousand nine hundred. Seventy eight didn't meet her on the campus. He met her in jail and he told that story. Today we met soccer stays campus Come March fifteenth sixty years ago. I'll always remember that day because that was the first day that I was arrested and I met her in jail on that day about eighteen months later we were married off. Stay marriage for fifty eight years. We talked about this date that we love so much. I remember to tell you about her. Experiences walked in two and a half miles to school every morning. Two and a half miles back home a raft in twenty two acre farm. We talked about what appearance sacrificed for us what we hold throughout children and all of children similarly situated. Wilson talked about the leadership of this country. And there's nobody who am that loved as it leader in this country more Joe Biden and we talked about you all the time. Jim Caverns Wife. Emily died last year but she was almost as present at today's endorsement of Joe Biden as she would have been if she were still with us and standing right beside her husband. We Knew Jim. Clyburn was going to endorse Joe Biden. Today we did not know the depth of emotion. He would feel and communicate about that endorsement. He told the story of attending a funeral last Friday in a rural part of State Richland County and he described his conversation with a woman. He called an elderly lady in her upper eighties. That was his phrase. Now you have to be at least in your upper eighties. Jim Clyburn to consider you elderly. Because he is seventy nine years old. Here's what that Elderly Lady said to Jim. Clyburn to beckon to me didn't Sur- word. I went over to her. She says lean down. I need to ask you a question down. She said you don't have to say it out loud. But you just into my ear who you GONNA vote for next. Saturday. I've been waiting to hear from you. I need to hear from you. This community wants to hear from you. I decided there that would not home stay silent. I've been saying to the media I've known for a long time. Ragas vote for but I had not decided not to share it with the public but I want the public to know voting Joe Biden. South Carolina's should be voting for Joe. Biden Jim Clyburn has the highest ranking Democrat in South Carolina. Jim Clyburn endorsement is the single most sought after endorsement in any of the Democratic primary states. Most endorsements don't mean much they really don't but that elderly lady isn't the only South Carolina voter wants to hear from Jim Kleiber. Four years ago Jim Clyburn Jurist Hillary Clinton a week before the South Carolina Primary which she then won seventy three percent to Bernie Sanders twenty six percent. Jim Clyburn endorsed John Kerry before the South Carolina primary which he won sixty one percent to nineteen percent over neighboring Senator John Edwards of North Carolina. Jim Clyburn endorsement today covered some areas of policy agreement with Joe Biden and he expressed his trust in Joe Biden. This way I know Joe we know Joe but most importantly Joe knows us in the end for Jim Clyburn. It all came down to Joe and emily and there was hard. I know who years I know what he is. I know where this country is. We are at an inflection point. On that day that I met him I went to jail around. Ten o'clock in the morning and I was discharged in. Jail bailed out around five thirty in the evening when I said in jail that day. I wondered what we're not doing the right thing but I was never faithful or the future as I stand before you today. I am fearful but the future this country. I'm fair for for my daughters and their fifties and their children the children's future and better suited better prepared. I can think of no one the tech integrity. No one more minute. The fundamental principles that make this country what it is the markets friend. My late wives. Great friend Joe by joining us. Now is the honorable James Clyburn cars from South Carolina and the House Majority Whip Carson Claburn. Thank you very much for making time for us tonight. I really appreciate it. I know it's been a busy day. I was really struck by the emotion. You brought to that endorsement today Wiping away tears a couple of times and it sounded like an endorsement of two Clyburn. Sounded like emily managed to deliver endorsement through today to. But thank you so much. And you're right. She did the fact of the matter is able and I talked about this race before she passed away. We've talked about the fact that our relationship with JOE AND OUR DIFFERENCES GRANDSON. Who's working in another campaign and we told him to be comfortable in what he was doing and we would support what he was doing. But in all probability will be voting for a different person. And so I thought it was important for me. Brennan Emily into the conversations. Because you're correct. If she were here she would have been standing with me and she would have been. She wouldn't have said a word but you could tell from her look and the way she would embrace joe what she was feeling so this day was as much for as was for how children and our grandchildren. Carson There there's a new ad out in South Carolina put out by the trump campaign a trump super PAC Using audio of Barack Obama that they have stolen from the audio recording of his old book. And they're trying to use sound from that book as if it was directed as a negative comment about Joe Biden. Did you expect this kind of really crazy last minute? Advertising against Joe Biden from Republicans in South Carolina. Well let me be clear. My father and mother were Republicans. My father believed in the Party of Lincoln. He would not recognize this today. The Republican Party has been taken over so about folks who seem to have no integrity about the political process seeing that Lou. Impassioned for those who you call the least of these seem not to have any regard for the truth. They seem to be willing to do anything to disparage. An opponent enjoy that more than winning the victory in the election no. I'm not surprised. I am surprised though. Many of my Republican colleagues seem to accept that might think about the state of the Union address with the president of the United States telling what the Washington Post said was at least thirty one lies in the speech and over half of them. My Republican colleagues were standing on their feet. Cherry knowing four will it was not the truth. This country has said today is at an inflection point power that we come to our senses disagree with disagreeable nine fifty eight years if we agreed on everything. But it's fifty years if it were disagreeable everytime we disagree so that we can have campaign campaign appealing to the best people appeal into the future of our children and grandchildren and doing what is necessary. Demand the integrity of this country. I've been saying this is a great country. It doesn't have to be made great again. What we've got to do is make this country's greatness accessible and affordable for all of its citizens. That's what I want this campaign to be about an I don't think you can get there by misrepresenting and modifying people's positions speech Carson Clyburn. I know there's always a tremendous amount of pressure on your endorsement. There's the famous Bill Clinton calling you up in the middle of the night livid at you for not endorsing Hillary Clinton in two thousand and eight Barack Obama of course one South Carolina Crucial Win for him on the way to the nomination. This time what was the pressure like. What was it like not having emily to lean on during? That pressure was great. Not Because I was unsure about what I wanted to do but the pressure was great. Because I was there. Trying to keep my word to my par- my state party. That would not say anything that would take away from the viability of our primary and it told me they saw the got out real early in the contest took sides that maybe the other candidates would not come and would not do honor for our primary. That was pressure that was pressured to stay quiet until after the debate. Because we wanted to have a televised debate and I promise the network would not get out in front of them but all that runaway beckoned to me and asked me to lean down spor- inner ear. Because she wanted to hear from me and she shoot me that the people in that humidity here for me all of that way because I saw on that moment about what Martin Luther King Junior wrote in his letter from Birmingham jail when he wrote these words that he was coming to the conclusion that the people of ill will in our society was making much better use of time than the people of goodwill and he thought that we were going to lead to regret not just with a vitriolic deeds of bad people but for their Paul and silence of people so I thought about that and decided to break my sides Carson James Clyburn always an honor to have you join us. We really appreciate you making time for us tonight. Thank you thank you coming up. The president's held a press conference in the White House tonight about the spread of the corona virus. The president offered his opinion about the spread of the virus in the United States and not surprisingly. He was immediately contradicted by one of the experts. The president invited to the press conference but did not listen to president. Obama put in charge of the Bala crisis in the White House. Ron Klein joins US next. You WANNA BE President. I've watched many candidates run for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it for this microphone. My podcast is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes that separate the few winners from the many losers. The hope still lives and the dream shall never die so you. WanNa be President with Chris Matthews and MSNBC podcast search. Now wherever you're listening and subscribe all six episodes available. Now she want to be president. I've watched many candidates for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it. I feel your pain. My podcast is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes that separate the few winners many losers. This campaign was and will remain the great honor of my life. So you want to be president with Chris Matthews and MSNBC podcast search now wherever you're listening and subscribe episode six available now one day after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned that the spread of the corona virus in the United States is inevitable. That's the they used inevitable. The president held a press conference with experts present and said this could be too. I also I don't think it's inevitable. I don't think it's inevitable an hour before that. The latest case of Corona virus infection was reported in California. Cdc said it is quote the first case of a corona virus in a person who did not recently returned from foreign country or have contact with a confirmed case. According to a person briefed on the case sign the virus may be spreading in a local area and that same press conference tonight. The president gave the world the false hope of a vaccine being available fairly rapidly. The vaccine is coming along well and speaking to the doctors. We think this is something that we can develop fairly rapidly. Vaccine that provoked Dr Anthony. She wanted the director of the National Institute of Allergy Infectious Disease. You had to step up to the microphone and put a real time frame on a possible vaccine. I just want to give you a very quick update on the my name. Is Dr Tony Foul on the Director of the Nationalist Student Allergy and Infectious Diseases? That h just a very quick update on the countermeasure development in the form of vaccines and therapeutics. I had told this audience at a recent press briefing that we have a number of vaccine candidates and one prototype one to give you a feel for the timeframe of vaccine and what its impact might be now and in subsequent years is that I told you we would have a vaccine that we would be putting into trials. See it's safe. And if it induces a response that you would predict would be protective in about three months. I think it's going to be a little bit less than that. It's probably going to be closer to two months. That would then take about three months to determine if it's safe an agenda which gives us six months then you graduate from a trial which has as one of forty five people to a trial that involves hundreds if not low thousands of people to determine efficacy at the earliest and efficacy trial would take an additional six to eight months so although this is the fastest we have gone from a sequence of a virus to trial it still would not be any applicable to the epidemic. Unless we'd really wait about a year to a year and a half leading off our discussion tonight Ron Clain who was put in charge of the federal government's response to the ABOL virus by President Obama in twenty fourteen. Also joining US Laurie. Garrett Pulitzer Prize winning reporter covering Global Pandemics wrought Ron. I you and with both of you tonight. You're such experts on this subject. I don't pretend to be able to guide where you should be focusing on your reaction to what you saw at the White House tonight. And we're this we're we're this virus crisis is at this time boy saw the process. You mentioned lords contradict the nation's leading experts. Dr Chee Dr Xu cod. Who also from the Centers for Disease Control was there? Contradictive on the likelihood of this disease spreading United States contradict him on the pace of vaccine development contradict him on Donald. Trump is the past tense to describe. The virus threat really is in the future tents contradicted them contradict himself on the travel restrictions. You put in place misled the American people but the child route sixty put in place. You know. I think the vice president charge doesn't move the needle one way or the other. If the president's can tell you to reject scientific advice to contradict scientific advice and really focus I think singularly not on the safety and the health of the American people but I tried to talk the stock market back up. I think his strategy has been happy tweets to talk the market. Not really preparing our country to deal with this problem that we're going to face Laurie. The only thing I know that that I could tell America that it should do as completely ignore every word said by Donald Trump Listen to you and others which is why I played his full his response in full. What do you think America needs to know tonight? Well first of all the case then. California's very distressing because this is in a rural area an individual that never traveled. How did this person get infected? It implies that there are cases out there that we don't know about and it's really shocking. That only four hundred twenty six Americans have actually been tested for infection if you compare that to South Korea right now. They're over thirty five thousand people. They've tested in the more. They test the more cases they find that have no symptoms that were missed or mild symptoms. We don't really know what's going on in America at the moment. What we need at the helm somebody who gets that science. You know who understands the subtleties Ron Clean? Got The subtleties of Ebola. When he was in the White House and thank God. You were there run. But we're putting Mike Pence and charge. Let's not forget. This is the guy who has governor of Indiana said that because of his beliefs no one getting infected with HIV or to block infection with HIV should have access to sterile syringes right when the OPIOID crisis was exploding in Indiana and by estimates done by my dear friend grade at Yale University that caused two hundred and fifty unnecessary infections and people leaving into either hepatitis issue in Indiana because he was ideologically opposed to allowing them to have safe use of drugs or run. The president was asked tonight about why his budget proposal proposed a cut in CDC funding. And I'm going to short short and his answer for time. He basically said he didn't want to waste money there and that you could always just hire people when you needed them. When there was a crisis. Yeah so wrong. Wrong and wrong. Look I think that We made a lot of investments during the ball response not justifiable to prepare our country for the kind of situation. We're facing now a future epidemic threat and since he came to office. Donald trump wiped out the White House Office that was in charge of pandemic preparedness and response. He cut funding at Centers for Disease. Control to for this preparedness. He's tried to cut many times research at the NIH and again as you've noticed these his most recent budget submitted after this outbreak propose to cut the Centers for Disease Control again. He showed all the wrong instincts at every step of the way. And I think that's that's. That's that is very problematic here right as we need a president who's willing Lori said step up and to listen to the medical experts. I think that's the big problem we have here. Which is you know. Donald Trump doesn't need to be a medical expert. Mike Pence doesn't need to be medical expert. They need to listen to the experts as Lori said pence ignored scientific advice in the Scott County Indiana. Hiv epidemic on his watch and the question is will trump will listen to those experts now and this is not a partisan issue. Tony Chica. They've served democratic Republican presidents. This should be an issue of science and medicine that politics controlling the response. You know what I would add to that if you don't mind this we're at the easy stage right now. This is the easy stuff. Just wait when it starts to be human to human transmission clusters around America when you start to have healthcare workers I was. I've been reading this absolutely heart wrenching plea from the nurses in Wuhan China saying we wake up every day and stark terror. Were psychologically distressed. We can't help but cry day. After Day. We have a health workforce that is already too small. We need far more nurses and doctors than we have in America. The hard part is going to be when they are exhausted when this is going through the hallways of hospitals is Mike Pence. The Guy who understands how to lead US through that Laurie. Garrett run clan. We're going to need to hear from you. Virtually every night as this procedure really appreciate you joining US tonight. Then he's coming up with just two days left until the crucial South Carolina primary. John Holloman joins US tonight live from South Carolina with the latest developments in the race including that lying Republican ad against Joe Biden. That has Barack Obama's lawyers sending cease and desist orders to South Carolina. Tv stations. Hey it's MSNBC's Chris as this week on my podcast. Why is this happening? I'll be talking with Dahlia Olympic senior legal writer at sleep about whether or not the courts will save us. When does it go so far that breaks? I think that as worried as I am about. That wind is the judiciary get so corrupted that. It's broken I think John Roberts lies awake at night asking himself the same question this week on wise's happening search for wise is happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. Wouldn't they non Bernie candidate make your job easier if keeping US whoever nominees? But she doesn't know who that nominee is going to be at all the latest polls in South Carolina before last night's debate showed Joe Biden in the lead with an average lead of about ten points. The other leading candidates tried to close that gap today in South Carolina. When we stay together we make profound change. That is the history of the Civil Rights Movement. Millions of people standing up with just this call is not for empty promises. This call is not for vague ideas. This call is for real plans to make some real changes in the lives and communities of people across this country and part of what the presidency in the right hands could do is bring us together as one American as one body. We have to win. We have to stop this injustice. We HAVE TO BEAT DONALD TRUMP. And the way that we do. It is with fired up democratic base which has always been rooted in the African American community joining us from South Carolina. John Holliman. He's national analyst for NBC News Msnbc. He's the Co host of showtime the Circus and the Editor in chief of the recount John so the polls were strongly favouring Biden before the debate. You have you have to wonder what happened in that debate to change that. Is it your sense that you picked me up from voters in South Carolina that the debate is much of a factor in In this race as we approach Saturday's voting. Yeah my sense. Lawrence's that the debate will matter but my sense the debates going to reinforce what the reality was on the ground even before the debate which is to say. Joe Biden came in here in a strong position I think he came out of the debate in a stronger position mainly because in that mess that scrum. That was the debate. He scored a couple of pretty clean. Hits Bernie Sanders. One of them related to the gun issue By tying it to mother Ami mother manual just steps away from the site of the debate the other night and hitting Bernie on his votes on the on the Brady Bill and then raising this question about Bernie having been contemplating exploring the possibility of a of a primary Brock Obama in two thousand twelve. Something that Sanders says deny but we have tape In addition to other reporting that suggests in fact he did. I think we're going to not answer that question on the debate stage and it's not gone unnoticed among African American voters. Here that he let that matter slide at the debate. I think Joe Biden on those two fronts. With the main constituency that matters here African Americans I think he reinforced his position. And there's not a black politician voter surrogate even for other candidates. Right now who I've talked to in the last forty eight hours who doesn't think Joe Biden is going to win this race. The only question is by how much John I want to show this ad that the Republicans bought in South Carolina. It is a complete crime against voters. It uses Barack Obama's voice stolen from his Audio Book Twenty Five Year Old Book Dreams from my father and he's not talking about Joe Biden at all. He's talking about politicians yet. There's a character in his book who he's quoting talking about. How politicians neglected the black community and the trump people tried to turn that into Barack Obama. Speaking against Joe Biden. I have people been fooled by this Ad. have the TV stations taken it down? It's not airing the I've not seen it. I'm not going to suggest that it's not that this hasn't been on the air anywhere but it's not broken through here Lawrence that I would say Something I know you know. African American voters are not just the most important constituency in the Democratic Party. They are among the most sophisticated voters in in South Carolina. African American voters have seen a few dirty tricks in their time so there are not a naive. They're not easily fooled. And I don't think there's much chance that this kind of really obvious chicanery is going to do much in this. Democratic primary to change facts on the ground again. I think there's a question you know. I'm not predicting say. I'm not predicting Joe Biden is GonNa win. I'm I'm telling you that the when you talk to the most plugged in African American politicians. Here that's what they think. I do think there's an interesting question that Bernie Sanders could still do considerably better with African Americans that he did four years ago when he did pretty abysmal year and that would be significant even if he does not win. If it's a narrow race and sanders does breakthrough to some extent with the black community. That could be important to sanders. His candidacy going forward as we head towards Super Tuesday and these very diverse states that are going to be competing a less today. John what else are you looking for tonight on the for the candidates who are probably going to be pulling up behind Joe Biden on Bernie Sanders. I think it's a really important question right now. Lawrence's is gets out of this race after after Saturday night and I think that I think you know there's been a little bit of a prisoner's dilemma quality to this on. The moderate side where candidates have been wanting to stick around. They've they've thought they had a rationale. They've thought they had reasons. They thought there was a way for them to have life. I think that some of these candidates may not be performed poorly enough that it bring some clarity to them and we may see one or more of them drop out in the immediate aftermath after south and I think that's another thing I'm looking for super important going forward into Super Tuesday Jon home and thank you very much for joining us really appreciate. Thanks a lot coming up. Harvey Weinstein is an prisoners ward of the New York City hospital tonight after being convicted of sexual assault and raped by a Manhattan jury. That's next and later actress. Rosanna arquette will join us with her reaction to the guilty verdicts against Harvey Weinstein. His movies earned more than three hundred Oscar. Nominations and at the annual awards ceremonies. He has been thanked more than almost anyone else in movie history ranking just after Steven Spielberg and right before God. That is a quote from the first paragraph of Ronan Farrow's first reporting about Harvey Weinstein in The New Yorker on October tenth. Twenty Seventeen Ronan. Farrow article came out five days after Jodi. Kantor Megan twohey delivered the initial reporting on Harvey Weinstein Sex crimes in the New York Times. All three of those reporters deservedly shared the Pulitzer Prize for their reporting on Harvey Weinstein and Tonight Harvey Weinstein is in the jail ward of Bellevue Hospital in New York City. Where he is being monitored after complaining of chest pains and high blood pressure after he was apparently shocked by a jury unanimously finding him guilty of sexual assault and third degree rape. When Weinstein is sentenced on March eleventh? He faces a possible five to twenty nine years in prison. He will then stand trial in Los Angeles where he is facing multiple charges of rape and sexual assault. Yesterday Weinstein's lawyers who visited him at the hospital said quote. He is somewhat flabbergasted flabbergasted by the verdict. He doesn't know how this happened. Hundreds of women probably thousands of women. Know exactly how this happened. Because they had similar encounters with Harvey Weinstein in his over thirty years as a relentless and vicious sexual predator. Rosanna arquette knows how this happened. She went public about Harvey Weinstein and Ronan Farrow's first article about him. Ronan Farrow wrote one evening in the early nineties. The Actress Rosanna Arquette was supposed to meet Weinstein for dinner at the Beverly Hills Hotel to pick up the script for new film at the Hotel. Arquett was told to meet Weinstein upstairs in his room or recalled that when she arrived at the Room Weinstein opened the door wearing a white bathrobe. He said that his neck was sore and that he needed a massage. She told him she could recommend a good masseuse then. He grabbed my hand. She said he put it on his neck when she yanked her hand away. Weinstein grabbed it again and pulled it toward his penis which was visible and erect. My heart was really racing. I was in a fight or flight moment. She said she told Weistein. I will never do that. Weinstein told her that she was making a huge mistake by rejecting him unnamed. An actress and model who he claimed had given into his sexual overtures and whose careers. He said. He had advanced as a result are kept said. She responded I'll never be that girl and left. Arquette said that after she rejected Weinstein. Her career suffered in one case. She believes she lost a role because of he made things very difficult for me for years. Our Cat said that her silence was the result of Weinstein's power reputation for vindictiveness. He's going to be working very hard to track people down in silence people. She explained to hurt people. That's what he does not anymore not anymore. Thanks to the brave raised voices of Rosanna arquette and the dozens of other women who came forward to tell their stories including the woman who told their stories convincingly to a jury in New York City. Rosanna arquette joins US next yesterday. Rosanna arquette and other victims of Weinstein gathered at less Los Angeles City Hall close to the courthouse where Harvey Weinstein will face his next trial for rape. Here's some of what Rosanna arquette had to say. Pay Is truly a bad mark moment for survivors of rape and sexual assault in that. The public seeing that men even a man as powerful famous as Weinstein will be held accountable for their abuse of women. Now we know that if we dare to speak there's a far greater chance we will be heard and our abusers will be punished. This seismic cultural change that began two and a half years ago hasn't brought to illegal conclusion to justice. Think about that. I I want you to take this in. It is a historic ship. That I never thought I would see in my lifetime. I want to be clear that we're here to hold space for all women and children and men for the brave women with testified at this trial. Who went through their own personal hell to bring us to this moment of justice joining us now actor. Director and activist Rosanna arquette. Rosanna thank you very much for joining us tonight. I'm sorry that this is the subject of your here for but it's been very helpful. I think to a lot of people as you know Cue Thank you so much for your support from the very beginning and your incredible journalism every day telling the truth you and Rachel are extraordinary. Human beings I thank you so much Rosanna. You said yesterday that you never thought you would see this. And I think based on what I've heard you say and read you say about this in the past I i. I don't think he ever expected Harvey Weinstein was going to be in handcuffs because of this the way it was going and the dirty tactics that you know the the attorneys were doing in the courtroom victim blaming shaming It didn't look like it was going to happen. So it's it's extraordinary that it did but having said that I mean jail. Time for him is not really justice for rape survivors. Even though it's something they're gonNA live in for the rest of their lives with this horrible trauma that happened to them but he is a convicted rapist and he is in the hospital. I'm sorry that he's not feeling well and his health isn't good. But you know he does need to be jail. He's been convicted rapists. And hopefully he's not getting special attention because he's rich and powerful and white and because and because you know he's contributed to the governor's campaign and Sivan's I it's it's it he really needs to go to jail. That's what I hope is happening. Because he's been convicted and that's the right thing to do Roseanne when I I'll never forget reading the description of what happened in that hotel room with Harvey Weinstein in ruins article. I know you and I met many many years ago in La and so it also had that resonance that. I know this person who I'm reading about in in this room and wh- did you realize that the weight of your career was on the line and when you were he was trying to make you feel that by giving you these examples and trying to convince you that other people have gone along with this and it's helped them to did you realize that this could mean as it did on the line. He was going to block you from getting roles and everything that he did. Do I knew it immediately. As I went down the elevator I just knew it I said Oh my God and I was right I was right and yes I am in pulp fiction Which happened after the the incident. That Quentin Tarantino asked me to do the movie. But I am the only person that doesn't have a back end in the film and worked for nothing in they. They make a tremendous amount of money. And Anyway. It's let's listen to what District Attorney Cyrus Vance said about this prosecution near Weinstein is a vicious serial sexual Predator who used his power to threaten rape assault trick humiliates and silences victims. He's been found guilty of Criminal Sexual Act in the first degree rape and we'll face on that count a state prison sentence of no less than five years and up to twenty five years presenting took an awful lot for those prosecutors to be convinced that they could bring these cases. I mean there's a lot of evidence through the years. The people like Amber Gutierrez. She wore the wire. I mean those tapes disappeared. Thank God she had a copy of it Because then they came out but you know there was a lot of things that happen for years that this was reported and some people covered it up. But now we have the truth and there's going to be another trial In Los Angeles with new witnesses And one of the women was sixteen at the time. So we're looking forward to that trial to Rosanna. I'm sure you get the question from young actresses just out of training just other college or coming to La for the first time of. Is this going to happen to me? What do I do? What am I getting into? We're trying to change the the whole system within the screen actors guild. There's a sexual harassment. There's a couple of sexual harassment committees and we're working very hard to make sure that that doesn't happen anymore. No more meetings in hotel rooms which was very common. You know so you go went to. That's what Donna Rotondo didn't understand. It was very common for actors to go meet a director. Who's traveling from out of town in a hotel suite happened all the time. But that's not going to happen anymore. there's GonNa be Enduring sex scenes there will be a coordinator there to make sure that think people are safe and comfortable if they choose to do nudity and so people are an abuse and we really now focusing on the children because so many children have been abused in the entertainment business. And we're working really hard to for that to never happen again. Rosanna arquette thank you for your bravery and for all of your efforts in this very long struggle really really appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you so much Larson. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you for an Aq- Rosanna arquette get. Tonight's last word. We eat till to live but food is so much more than that. I'm Andrew Zimmer chef world traveler and host of a new series on MSNBC. Join me as I explore our country looking at the biggest social and political questions of the day through the Lens of food this week from opioids to alcohol addiction has reached epidemic levels in America. See how the food industry is stepping up to help people on their road to recovery on the next episode of. What's eating America Sunday at nine PM EASTERN ONLY ON MSNBC?
AP One Minute Headlines Jan 21 2019 21:00 (EST)
"And now an ad from dad, right? Save money on car insurance when you bundle home and auto with progressive guy. Take these right? What is this? Wow. Wow. Where did you get this? I'm talking to you with the hair. Yeah. Where did you get this? Good stuff and solid. That's not veneer that solid stuff. Progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates in other insurance discounts not available in all states or situations. The Brexit me not be certain. But one thing is clear. Your business could face serious challenges. Enterprise. Orlands wide range of supports will help you plan innovate compete undiversified, speak to your enterprise Arlen development adviser or visit prepare for Brexit Dodi an initiative of the government of Ireland honoring Martin Luther King junior. I'm Tim Maguire. But the AP news minute on this Martin Luther King junior day ceremonies honoring him held around the country, including ebony Ebeneezer Baptist church in Atlanta after Delta Airlines provided a grant to the National Park Service to open the church in Columbia, South Carolina. Congressman James Clyburn, brought up a phrase used by President Trump and. His supporters problem is making America's greatness, apply fairly and equitability to all of its citizens murder charges pending in Nevada against a man suspected of being in the country illegally. The four victims were found dead in their homes in the Carson city Reno area starting on the tenth of this month through last Wednesday, Wilbur Martinez Guzman whose twenty was arrested on Saturday in Carson city. A nineteen year old man is in critical condition after being shot outside a clothing store in a suburban Chicago mall. Police say they're searching for whoever was involved and tonight shooting. I'm Tim Maguire. Hi, it's Jamie, progressive's employee of the month two months in a row. Leave a message at the. Hi, jamie. It's me, Jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool. So when it's like tell us what you want to pay. Hey trombone goes, blah, blah, blah. And you say we'll help you find coverage options to fit your budget. Then we just all do finger snaps while a choir goes, savings coming at ya. Savings coming at ya. Yes. No. Maybe. Anyway, see you practice tonight. I got new lyrics for the rap break. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. The stylized lounge presents an evening with the progressive box. That's you go tickling the ivories. He just saved. By bundling home and auto progressive gonna finally by Vernet gal of yours Hugo send dolences show this nice. There's. In my all thinking progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts on available in all states or situations.
Bonus: Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC)
"Hello and welcome to the powerhouse. Politics podcast. I'm ABC News. Political Director Rick Klein with a special South Carolina Preview podcast. We took the podcast on the road. This week I was in Charleston South Carolina. I was actually at the event where Congressman James. Clyburn was going to give his endorsement and This really wasn't a huge secret. It wasn't a huge mystery thing. Most people knew who it was going to be but I had the weird experience of entering the wrong room and when this happens there's a little bit of a flurry of a scramble and security people kind of Came over to me. Say So what. Are you doing here but By the time they came I got a real good glimpse of the man of the moment and it was Joe Biden people. I knew who was GONNA be Biden's confirmation just a moment before and this was a big moment for the Biden campaign a big moment in the in South Carolina primary which could prove pivotal on Saturday. And that's because Jim. Clyburn is the most respected Probably the most recognizable senior Democrat in the state I've been covering Congress and Clyburn in his role in the primaries going back to two thousand four and He has always been the man. That is the most wanted endorsement in the state. Not just because of the political machine he brings but because of the respect that he has among so many South Carolinians Democrat particular African American Democrats in particular. I and this is Joe. Biden's firewall so we thought it'd be a good time to check in with Congressman Clyburn about his endorsement of Joe Biden about South Carolina about some of his rivals and even about the candidate that his own grandson is supporting. Pejic Congressman. Welcome to forever and I saw at your event where you issue the endorsement. You mentioned that you had made up your mind. Some time ago and just decided to to to make the announcement on the eve of the primary. How long did you? How long ago did you make up your mind? Was there ever any kind of choice in your mind? Why Joe Biden ultimately? Well there's no I lost my wife back in September Re Talk about this campaign. Be Thought talked about the future of this country. We talked about who we thought would be the best person to be president the best person to take on. Donald Trump and We felt very strongly It was Joe Biden. My grew up in rural South Carolina on the twenty three Acre farm and She grew up walking two and a half miles to school every morning to have is back on after noon. Time in black kids not allowed to have school buses She always identified with the politics of Joe Biden. And she just thought he's one of the most principal people in politics. And so it was easy for me I have a daughter. Who's a public schoolteacher twenty-five-year Schoolteacher? She talks and interacts. Jill Biden whole lot In fact she sat with you. That the debate Last night They're very good friends. so it was easy for me. The hard thing for me was to decide whether or not to be public and make a public endorsement and I was holding out on doing that until last Friday would to a funeral. Service for my longtime accountant. Who passed away after a pretty long and illness and the latest at the church elderly seemed to be an upper upper eighties. Called me over to her and said to me as a people in this community WanNa hear from you. I want to hear from you as you think is best for us to vote for the This she leaned down. And if you don't want anybody the heat you just fill my tell me who I vote for. That was a pretty moving experience for me And now decided then and there that would be very public With my endorsement and Do whatever to help educate those people in the public who may be torn as WHO THEY WANNA vote for many have some help in making up demise and and Congressman Clyburn yours associated with anyone As anyone is with the with the history of the of the primary here the early primary in South Carolina being critical one. I know your endorsement has been a sawed off sawed after one for for decades. Now walk us through the political geography of the primary here in South Carolina. What does a candidate needs to do? Where does he or she needs to perform to stitch together the winning coalition in this first. State that has a large share of African American voters. Not THE LOST HALF AMERICAN. Voters got such a diverse Economy diverse population African American voting cycle. That's twenty nine In Democratic primary. It it's over fifty percents. Some people said sixty sister one percent. I'm not too sure about that In the primary but I do know this. South Carolina is also a small enough state with the Cheapen the media Market for people to come in and Learn how to connect with a diverse set of voters if you're in the pedia South Carolina that's basically agriculture farming in the low country. Down in Sawssen. That's where basically medical facilities are the premium medical facilities and also it used to be the military In transition now more tourism than military in a more in terms of economy. If you're in the Midlands the Kissel the seat of government if you're in the Piedmont is the manufacturing part of the state so you can come in the South Carolina and really get a good feel about how your mess this resonates for certain people and talk to people In these Professions and vocations and occupations and the feel for how you ought to relate to them so South Carolina. Everybody made the case to become a primary that you know we used to be a caucus state. We switched to the primary. And we've made the case for being early in the process by Micatin the same argument. I just made it to you. So South Carolina Is a great place. It should be First or second in the process I have been advocating for some time now Not Bother our about being them what we ought bother them about changing to to a primary from cost but we'll say is our and Nevada or to go on the same day South Carolina and New Hampshire or canoe on the same day. And if you look at those four states make up of the states if they were going on the same day in the schedule that I just mentioned to you. You would not have a one-sided cannaday developing momentum onto the next day it's unfair for someone to win in our this got three percents African American and develop momentum and go to New Hampshire. They've got one percent. African American envelope. Meant that by the time you get to South Carolina where you got a significant presence of African American then the momentum has turned against you The fundraising capability has jumped to dry up and they end up getting the candidate that will need. African Americans at a much higher percentage in the general election. But you have not expose yourself to them In the primary. So that's why another reason why I was taught me to get out there today because this is the first opportunity That the African American community insignificant numbers had to express their views. One thing I've been struck by in the in the final days before the primary Out of the Biden campaign and out of the vice president himself is the argument about the about the resonance of the Obama Coalition. And he's been touting obviously partnership is work alongside former President Obama South Carolina was the state that the the vaulted into the nomination. Back in two thousand eight state that seem to ratify What what he was doing when he started to pull away from Hillary Clinton does the Obama coalition matter anymore. What's your view about whether the Obama coalition can be pieced together in twenty twenty well No I've I've heard a lot of talk about Obama coalition hot thing that what resonates with people is women or not. They can see in your candidate. Say in hope and James the fulfillment of any dreams for the future And I think that news choose hope over fear And you do it In the way that you'd run your campaign and the way that you speak people In exposing to them. Whatever your Platform may be the better off. You're GONNA be Remember Bill Clinton Kansas South Carolina. Talking about hope even being from Hope Arkansas And he lost about nine contests before you got the soccer club. One in South Carolina get lost to the president. Obama came to South Carolina. Talking about Desi of hope And he just lost badly in New Hampshire but guy resurrected In South Carolina. It run on to to the presidency. The motto of South Carolina is while I breathe. I hope and so. I have said to candidates all over run a campaign the fufill practiced among motto of your State. And you'd be much better off than you would be issue see that there's an interesting dynamic in South Carolina that I'm sure you've picked up on. It might be sort of a miniature of what we're about to see with my Bloomberg in Super Tuesday states. And that's Tom Star. He's really these states airwaves almost to himself for a long time. He's a self funded candidate. He's been polling third navy even second in in polls recently. He's also he's also been accused of essentially buying the votes of African American leaders by spreading Money and And influence around. What's your view of Tom? Style is he. Is he a threat to Joe Biden? You think there's anything to the idea that he's been buying support. He's been spending sent us buying support. I'm not thank you buying support from white voters if you're paying a company or Business To place the TV ads. That's what they do and they get paid to do that. If you go out and contract with the Black Group to do you'll get out the vote stuff to do or run your field operation. That's what they do and this whole day buying black votes because you hire black people do your Geo TV but your mind wipe votes when you high fight. Trump is to place your TV heads. Come on that's insulting to me When people have certain levels of expertise Their right to Get paid for that expertise and so I'm in south to buy this People are much buying votes. When you hire people to do they know how to do. I people every campaign season I get my information out. I I can't go to every county present meeting. I people that go deliver material. I can't go to every convention. I got sixteen counties in my district so I thought about that. That'd be they've really get upset. When I hear people say that. Did you think he is his support? Here is taking away from Joe Biden support. Oh It's no question about that Joe Biden was getting fifty to fifty four percent of that American vote Then all of a sudden that started to drop down some kids to the thirty s Another reason I smoke today. Want people to know In an overturned is over I noticed. I was at an event for people to Jesuit a couple of days ago. In one of your grandsons has been a very prominent surrogate for mayor. Pete curious if you've you was a generational split here that That people should be tuned to fifty. Or what what you said to your grandson about About Mayor Pete when he told you he was willing to wanted to go on this train. Obviously different views on this primary. This coming up shoe. I encouraged him and he told me he went to work in the campaign. As you say you want to work for House. Open system is that It could be on the same team with them on the. He told me he wanted to work. Pete I asked him why and he told me Lie and I said. Yes my advice. I give you my advice Told him thought it would be up against but I told him I thought he needed to conduct himself And I hope that it did from all that I share People have been very very impressed with him. He calls me often for advice. And I give them the best advice given I want him to be as accessible. You can possibly be bad when the PRIMAR- we'll see on Saturday whether Carlsson Clyburn gets his wish. Thanks to Congressman Clyburn for joining us for this special edition of the powerhouse politics. Podcast for Giancarlo whole team here Trevor Hastings and EAC Remillard in the gang. We'll be back next week with our Super Tuesday wrap up.
Politics with Amy Walter: Remembering John Lewis
"Politics with Amy Walter on the takeaway appealed all of you to get into this great revolution lettuce sweeping this nation. Yet in estee industry heiress city Arab village, and how this nation onto true freedom come to revolutionize. Down the sixers. We must get in. This. Revolution complete the revolution. Last Friday the world learned of the loss of congressman. John Lewis Lewis was a hero to many an icon of the civil rights movement. He was dubbed the conscience of the Congress where he served for more than thirty years. In the week following his death, we've seen countless tributes across social media and from the House floor. John Moose always took. The High Road John Robert Louis who was a dancer. A man who love to have fun, but was convicted for the right to vote very few can can claim to altered the course, of American, history, the way the John did loved every person he met. He looked them in the I. Can't you hear him my brother? My sister, he would say he always wanted, and he did inspire them to take that baton and to run the next lap of the race. For Justice N Equality. Here's a growing movement for Alabama's Edmund Pettus Bridge to be renamed in his honor, and on Wednesday the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act was introduced in the Senate. All deserve recognition for a man whose determination kept him fighting for eighty years. We wanted to understand what he was like as a legislator and a colleague, so we assembled a virtual roundtable of lawmakers who served in the congressional black caucus along with Lewis. This is congresswoman Brenda Lawrence. My name is Lauren Underwood I'm the congresswoman from Illinois Fourteenth Congressional District and Jim Klaren House majority whip. I started by asking. Congressman James Clyburn to tell me what he remembers most about working with John Lewis. On? Early days. And Dot net in nineteen sixty when we were founding members of the student nonviolent ruined committed on the day we met it was also. The evening that I met Martin Luther King Jr.. Ama- earliest memory of John was sitting with King Cincinnati around ten o'clock in the evening, and not leaving the room until they're outflow the next morning. And so I had myself a poll. A transformation in the company of John Lewis. And maintain that friendship all the way up onto his death. And so. It's a joy to work with him for. Twenty seven years. Real members of John. Kerry while college students in. The freedom riots. In fact his first first time, he was physically assaulted. Was in South Carolina in little. Town Rocky Oh and APP at assault. He was brought to my hometown of sumpter. Not Meant to us. later became a mentor of his. Negative McCain aggrandize. DC because he was injured. Another salt agenda not talked about that a lot over the years. We can paid what we were doing one. Back in the sixties. was going on. She black lives matter. And we are both very concerned. As to whether or not today, his black lives matter movement. And, we'll get checked way. Snake was hijacked back in the nineteen sixties. Burn David Baron. Destroyed us that kind of slogan air. We were fearful of when we first heard defunding police. We talked about that. He spoke out strongly against that and so that. Congressman Lawrence if you could weigh in on your experience with him, and we're also looking to get a sense of what he was like as a legislator. In, reading through some of the. Obituaries in the Atlanta Journal Constitution in the Washington Post. They say you know he wasn't known for taking technical approach to policy cutting deals in the back rooms. So, what was he like as a legislator? Well I find them more as a mentor. Just taking people under the way he was zero focused on the challenges of the least less he would tell us. New People came to make sure. Keep your on the prize and to fight and know that our battle civil rights is not over. What about you congresswoman underwood you as the newest member here I wanted to get your first impression of meeting, Congressman. Lewis was it when you first came to Washington or had you met him earlier? I met Congressman Lewis in two thousand six, when I was a Congressional Caucus Foundation summer intern I was attorney and Senator Obama's office. And Congressman Lewis was a generous participate in a speaker series. We had an opportunity to meet and hear from variety of CBC members. There's probably forty of us that were sophomores, juniors, seniors and college, Young Nineteen Twenty Year Old African American students, and he told us about his lifetime of service, and he answered our questions that gave us the familiar words about getting good trouble in necessary trouble, keeping the faith, and you know continuing to stand up for what was right, and I was just odd and really stunned that here's this giant, and he would take the time to come and talk to us, and it's just a moment that. With me over these last almost fifteen years, and so when I got elected to Congress. You know had a chance to get to know him personally. It's something that continues to just blow my mind a little bit. He is a supporter, our work on the black maternal health caucus and it. It was a joy to have. As a partner in that legislation I WanNa talk about the the whole that he's leaving in Congress and also in the CBC. This year alone three veteran members of the CBC leisha Cummings John Conyers. Now John Lewis have passed away and I would love to start with you Congressman Clyburn on the whole that they leave. WHO fills that? And what is the future? Do you think for the Congressional? Black Caucus, which is close to turning fifty? We'll think we have a tremendous pitcher. I've always a little bit concerned when I hear. People referred to those activities back into sixes as the civil rights, movement. The fact of the matter is we should s on that because there will always be civil rights. It's a stunner. Rebellion was a civil rights movement Denmark visas efforts in eighteen twenty two civil rights movement. The Niagara Movement was all about civil rights. Is What created? The forerunner to the. P. So there's always going to be a civil rights movement. And so what we do, though is look for leadership when a issues arise when a moment as we say becomes a movement, somebody will arise head and shoulders above all of us, and that's what happened. John Those illogic comments just a great person. He didn't. He was not known. For civil rights per se, he was a consummate legislator and he moved agenda unlike. Any others and so it was John Conscious, this an outstanding got I learned a lot from John John. A great tactician. And so everybody has their roles play. We all respond. To our stents and John. As, well as in about Congresswoman Underwood, you're the youngest African American. Woman ever elected to Congress so you are literally the next generation here. I don't know if you also feel that. There is someone of a burden or challenge in front of you. And what do you see as we go forward with so many new members coming in new members of color and the role that you see them playing as we move forward? I do certainly have a perspective of a different generation of leadership. I recognize the vast contributions of the CBC. Several decades recognize the important role that they've played as the conscience of the Congress and recognize that oftentimes Congress moves slower than the American people, and if we need an example of this, we can look at what's occurred since Memorial Day. And the vast change and public opinion that's taken place around. The Need to swiftly address America's legacy of. Racism and white supremacy and embracing the calls to actions affiliated with the lies matter movement, and so you know I think that our generation of young. Elected officials certainly recognize our history and legacies and sacrifices of those who come before us, and then also recognize the fierce urgency of the work that we have yet to do we have different tools available to us. and I would say that our generation is socially connected in ways that you know others haven't been at the same time you know. Public support is with us on these issues of voting rights they're. The public is with us on the issue of equality and justice and reform, and so you know while the CVC can be the policy lead for many of these legislative. Initiatives here in the Congress, a lot of the energy around the country, and certainly in my district is coming from a diverse coalition, I think that that evolution marks a dramatic shift in our country, and it allows us as legislators to continue to pursue our agenda aggressively with the expectation of broad support among our colleagues and the expectation of bipartisan action, so no longer is just a CBC initiative for you know Equality Justice, and you know. Know, ending racism. No, this is like making America. Better and the American people are with us, and I think that and this moment this the CBC and Twenty Twenty is at the very four of the move for change now one of the criticisms of the CBC and this has been coming up recently is that they've endorsed white incumbents for African American challengers who Johnson Primary? Some of them have been younger trombone for example against Eliot Engel. Up in New York. Do you think the policy should be changed that there should either be? Let's stay out of primaries or that. The CBC should be encouraging. New members who are members of color to come to Congress anyway, they can and support them. This is congresswoman Brenda Lawrence I want it to be clear that we have a pet. We are the Congressional Black Caucus and we're not the political arm, so there is a pat. We always encourage young people I mean continuously through the foundation through the mentorships and the internships that we sponsor to encourage African Americans to be involved politically and so I I'm proud of the record that the Congressional Black Caucus has our annual conference where we highlight the legislative process in the outcomes in and the achievement of the black. Caucus, we are not the political arm but I can tell you. We have a proud record endorsing endorsing supporting and mentoring African Americans to into the political spectrum. Right I just read. In article. I think it was in politico. A couple of weeks ago where you said you would encourage the CBC to withhold endorsements in certain races, if there's a qualified African American challenger running against an incumbent I was speaking to the pack. Right that when we have African Americans who are in the race that we look at withholding our endorsements, but I'm one voice. That's my opinion. When I ran for my race I was not endorsed by the pack, but I had numerous members independently who supported me and that happens all the time. The tack is the political arm and they have their own process for endorsements comfortable climate. I want to go to you for a minute. Because I want to talk about the issues right now. That are in front of the country, and certainly where the CBC has been front and Center, and that's the police reform bill that passed the house at the end of June. It doesn't look like it's going to go anywhere in the Senate. And there is talk now that let's say that Democrats pick up. The Not just the White House but the Senate and still control the House in two thousand twenty one. If that does happen, do you think that pressure is going to build in the Senate to eliminate the filibuster? So that a bill like this policing bill and other policies, surrounding racial disparities will ultimately be passed and then signed into law. That pressure will rush to do something I don't know. If I would go as far as the lemonade Filibuster, I would leave that up to the Senate haven't been victim of filibuster. You now's around. I think it's not yet ask you. When Strom Thurman set the filibuster record against the Civil Rights Bill I've also been here the see filibuster in emanated from certain judgeships in the Senate and his US some most reactionary judges, and not just reaction there. To the American bosses itchen. PEOPLE UNQUALIFIED AND Filibuster that has caused that if we had to filibuster movement able to stop those judges, so it all depends on what time it is as. You come down on that spectrum so I I say the fifth time we have to be very careful the same things that make you laugh in this business can make you crack, but having said that just as police in I have not given up on that deal. We've pass it in. The in the house is innocent. Carter Booker in Harris of working at Bill I've been working back channels with the Senate trying to get to a common ground on legislation. You need to outlaw Joe Cole We need to get rid of No knock interest and I think that people are understanding that and if we can find. Some common ground at go ahead and do it. Because I would not run the risk of SAMBA. Let's wait until the next congress. When he can get rid of the Filibuster I'm not too sure that that will happen, so let's do what we can hopefully will be enough way about it at both law. Goes. So. You think there's enough time to do the next round of stimulus as well as pass something like this before you all leave for the fall all the time. Yeah ways there, you just said three trillion dollar bill over in the Senate the House has done its work with the heroes. Act All the sentence gotta do is come to grips of in fact, they have problems Republicans among themselves so all with all of their past justice police an act. We've pass a heroes bill three trillion dollars. Trillion dollar that GONNA state and local governments, and says now talking about doing something without the Gos- state and local governments so there's nothing really left. In this arena both these are. for the house to do. So the ways play, the Senate hasn't the built the wheel, and that's what's missing congressman. Underwood I. Want to ask you about the campaign coming up in vice president. Biden and I'm sure. You are getting asked a lot about your opinion about who he should pick potentially as his vice presidential running mate. He has said he's picking a woman of quarters. Do you think that it is important for him to pick. A woman of color is going to be critical. It's absolutely critical and tell me why because women of Color are vibrant, engaged route. We have in terms of our segment of the electorate. We have outstanding and qualified candidates that are capable. They are prepared to do the job on day one and Have a unique ability to connect across segments of the electorate from coast to coast and I think that we have a very robust list of women that have been supposedly on this shortlist and I. Certainly don't end the the decision that the vice president has to me. being friends and colleagues with many of these women and so I'm very excited about their leadership, and you know look forward to. Election Day when we can all vote for change in this country would there be a consequence decent for Biden to pick a woman who is not a woman of color, not a black woman but I think that this has been at open and public conversation for so I take him at his word that he's committed to. Moving in that Direction Ama- women of color. I have been surrounded by these amazing women who are being vetted. They're absolutely qualified with ABC over the top. In my lifetime to see a black woman serve as the vice president of the United States. But I. I am putting trust in. Don't by to pick the best person to serve in his administration essence president. And I will celebrate. Don't WANNA making. Starring Person vice-president I WANNA. Thank all three of you for taking this time to come and talk to me about all of this. Please stay safe, and hopefully soon enough we'll be able to see each other in person ub faith and to everyone listening where he amassed. Thank you so much, thank you. I. Any thank you Laurin. Underwood represents the fourteenth Congressional district in Illinois Brenda. Lawrence Represents Michigan's fourteenth, Congressional district and James Clyburn. Represents the sixth Congressional District of South Carolina. All three Democrats are members of the Congressional Black Caucus. John Lewis will lie in state in the US capital next week. We just heard about the legacy and influence of John Lewis some of his colleagues. For more on the role of the congressional black, caucus nearly fifty year, old organization, and what the loss of three of its heavyweights means for its future. I talked with John Bresnahan congressional bureau chief for politico. Nine months since alleged coming fast away and now and now Mr Lewis has gone, and I do think that is you know very much on the minds of CBC members and the Democratic Caucus and the house as a whole i. mean you coming US enormously? What respected any was close to speak Nancy close I mean this is somebody who kind of close these firemen in some senses. She brought him into oversight, and there were still a minority to help. Defend President Obama than President Obama and then you know. When they came the majority, he was chair and they were investigating Donald Trump and. Elijah Cummings had Gravitas, and he could deal with it on Mr, Lewis was. Not was an active legislatively. Let's say Elijah Cummings, but he was this tremendous figure. He was dignity in this. Gravitas that was. Really hard. I don't think anybody else in the. Congress could match it and when Lewis spoke, everyone listened on both sides dial. You know it's hard to even describe outside of Congress. What the loss of these two figures means, and then you go back, and you look at a John Conyers. The end of John Conyers the end of his career over fifty years was a was a sad moment, but he was a very powerful figure. The first african-american Cheer the Judiciary Committee. I mean I can remember talking to Mr Conyers about when he got elected in Congress in nineteen sixty, and he was the first black member under sharing, and they the chairman at the time. Wouldn't even you know they didn't even deal with freshmen in the sixties he John Conyers actually hosted a radio show in Washington because he had so much time on his hand because freshman there were you know they were accessories, especially a minority. An African. American member he was just. You know you have plenty of time. Just come in, and we'll tell you how to vote vote to go from that to chairman of the committee. Where was amazing leap? He took decades, but he was able to do it. And now we have entire generation of of new members coming in members of color, those coming into the CBC, who have been forged in a very different reality, the trump presidency and a time when you can have an individual brand, it is interesting you talk about you. See somebody like Anna Presley, or you see someone like Ilan Omar who are both who are members of the, but as you said, they have their own brand than they. They have their own national audience. You're able to reach above the median. Some ways directly chew these constituencies back home, and nationally that they're talking to, and it is. It is interesting to see that because the CBC for decades was really focused on seniority, the more veteran members where who look to for guidance and Mentorship, and the younger members are coming in and they they of twitter and social media are able to speak past the media directly to voters, and it's a fascinating time, and it's fascinating to see. That is playing out in the CBC I mean. There were some issues with Ilan Omar? When she started as a freshman, she made some comments overseen his antisemitic the first time she did. This controversy erupted in twenty nineteen. She was very strongly defended by the CBC and then the second time. I think there were some CBC members who are saying you know. The you know enough of that. She should've learned her lesson the first time, so it was interesting to see that dynamic. Play out there so it's just it is the the tease evolving like the congress in dealing with some of these members who come in in our stars Janu- helped write a piece the other week in talking about the issue of police reform in the world CBC's playing in pushing that forward and the headline on it was. We can't flunk moment right here. We are at this moment of racial reckoning. We have police. Violence issues roiling the country the pressure on the CBC to get something, not just through the House of course, which they did but to get it. It signed into law. How is that going? And what do you think happens is something? Is something going to get to the president's desk by the end of this year? We don't know the answer that question right now. It doesn't seem likely, but we'll have to see how November played If Donald, trump is reelected, elected, you know. Would Republicans feel comfortable doing something on this issue in a lame duck? Congress were if Joe Biden's elected. What will happen early in the next Congress? I mean right now. The House has passed a very sweeping police reform bill. The Senate was not able to come to any agreement, so that is on moving forward on a bill. They didn't even vote on anything they. Couldn't agree to move forward so that it's kind of stalled way now. Congress is dealing with Krona virus relief issues, and then it's GonNa leave August, then come back in. September there may be some chance that happens I'm I'm just not sure. Right now I would say. The chances of that are low, but you did see in the house. One of the interesting things that dynamics played out was the current chairwoman. CBC Karen Bass was able to help. move that legislation through the chamber. She did a tremendous job, and of course dot has raised her profile dramatically down. She's being talked about as potential vice presidential candidate so in some ways. The legislation hasn't moved the debate in what happened and who is involved, has had an impact on the congress, and maybe even national politics one last thing about where things stand legislatively. I'm they're still back and forth about what? This next stimulus package is gonNA look like. Can you give us a sense? Jonah, where we are, and whether next week is the week. When will finally see a breakthrough and maybe a vote? We won't probably see next week in fact. Talking about John Lewis. We in mentioned him before there, there will be China Lewis. You will lie in state in the US capital, and there will be ceremonies for him, and then of course Thursday next week they will be his funeral in Atlanta, so nausea will see any action on the corona virus relief package. By that time we will see the Senate Republicans supposedly introduce their version of the bill next week. A trillion dollar leave package. They've had problems. Between the White House and Senate Republicans even agreeing on what should be an and at that point, the new real negotiations will begin We'll see how Democrats react to what the Republican Bill Is. I've had some White House officials. Tell me they don't think Democrats. They think Democrats. Will just you know just reject it outright? And then there'll be some jockeying, and then the negotiations will start I. Don't think we're going to see a deal until early. August, which is a huge problem i. mean you have the the additional federal unemployment? Payments are going to be expiring it and July Vixen moratorium expiring. Soon so I mean there's going to be a real financial hit for a lot of Americans if they don't get some action by Congress right now I don't see that happening for the month. They really. were. Really talking about some point in August, then yeah, I do think Congress will do something before they leave for August Win August. It happens is the real question temporary hands. Thank you for coming in and talking with US I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. John. Bresnahan is congressional bureau chief for Politico and we asked you. What do you look for in young political leaders? My vote for political future for the dentist dates goes to Alexandria Cossio Cortez. She's straightforward. She is honest changes. They clear voice that is intelligent. Young political leaders demonstrate the depth of genuine empathy. They have to show that they understand the concerns of older Americans and acknowledged that bulldozing everything from the past to make room for new values. `institutions is not an effective way to build cross generational consensus I admire leaders that value, empathy and compassion. Just send to our dern from New Zealand. Is An extremely good example of that. She says it takes courage and strength to be empathetic. One more thing for me today. The League Congressman John Lewis was able to look onto a world so broken full of hate and see possibility and hope. It's hard to feel that kind pope today. We seem to be caught in an endless cycle one. That prizes conflict above all. The goal isn't in solving problems, but in nurturing perpetual state of Grievance. The what I worry about most when I think about post-election America. If Biden wins. There's money to be made by keeping those who supported trump in a constant leather. And there's consequences for those office who dared to collaborate with those on the other side. I've watched a lot of congressional campaign ads. This primary season, and the most prominent feature for Republican candidates is a professed fealty to trump and other words. Even if he's not in office next year, his presence will still be felt. At this point I'm supposed to put in some sort of cliche that will make us all feel better about the path forward. But I can't. Instead I think we all need to get used to the idea that there's nothing ahead, but a long messy slog. There can still be change and hope in a slot. But it's not quite as dramatic or fulfilling as many of us would like to see. That's all for us today, but don't worry. There's something extra for you in the podcast. Feed my interview with Theresa Greenfield the Democratic running against Republican. Senator Joni Ernst in Iowa. Plus we check in on school reopening plans in the Hawkeye state and a big thanks to the folks who put this show together. Our senior producer is amber hall for Tricia. yakup is our associate producer. Polly Irungu is digital editor. David Gable is our executive assistant. Jake, how it is our? At the WNYC studios this week Debbie daughtry. WHO's our poured up bins, Fairchild, our director and sound designer. Our executive producer is Lee, Hill. And of course you can call us anytime. Eight seven, seven eight, my take or send us a tweet. I'm Amy Walter. The show is at the takeaway. I'll see you next week. Thanks so much for listening. It's politics with Amy Walter on the takeaway.
Politics with Amy Walter: The Politics of "Defund the Police"
"It's politics with Amy Walter. Matt Katz in for Amy this week. Good to have you with us this week like. Weeks it seems has been fraught. Primary voters in Georgia were greeted by long lines, broken machines and George Floyd was laid to rest in Houston following weeks, which thousands of Americans took to the streets to decry police brutality and his name meanwhile Congress's reckoning without a respond to the protests to the calls for police accountability in addition to tackling systemic racism in policing Democrats introduced the justice and Policing Act this week, but many progressives worry it doesn't address the issue of systemic racism and police ink here to help us. US, look back at the week and make sense of it. All is Laura. Baron Lopez national political reporter at politico and Nick Fan dose congressional correspondent for The New York Times thank you. Laura Nick appreciate you being here and can't quite a beer nick. They'll start with you. Can you give me a summary of the justice and policing act? That's now proposed in Congress. What would this bill do? What wouldn't it not do? So? Democrats in the House and Senate introduced this bill on Monday as kind of their. Opening off her for a debate, the Congress's is like would have over policing and criminal justice in the next few weeks. in this bill has a lot of different provision in it on the kind of folks in this field considered the front end and back end of policing so. It makes it easier to. Prosecute cops, basically that violate individual civil rights. At, bands things like choke holds and no knock warrants and drug cases There's a lot of ways in which tries incentivize local departments states to improve anti-bias training use of force training it sets up a what would be kind of a first national registry to track the use of force by police officers, and make it easier to track officers who do use force properly from department to Department. You know it's it's. It's an expensive bill. someone the left field. It doesn't go far enough but it's a bigger overhaul policing. The Congress has tried to undertake in. Anybody's memory. I WANNA I WANNA. Talk about the how some of the left feel it might be just the more reforms and kind of dismissive of it. I've been talking to activists who of take to the streets, and then experts who have thought deeply about this idea of moving toward police abolition. defunding and even eventually ending police departments as we know them, and it seems th. This bill is not that at all. Nick. He's just follow up on this. Is there a Gulf year between the the vocal grass roots, and some of what we've heard on the streets, and then what elected Democrats are offering them in this bill. Yeah, I think there are certainly a Gulf What elect Democrats would tell you is for one thing you know. Funding of departments largely takes place at the state and local level. It's not a congress doesn't have a particular role to play in say, defunding, or pulling apart the police department of Minneapolis. But definitely you know it's A. It's a bill that takes the view, and and many Democrats in Congress. Share this that you know there are positive changes. There are reforms that can be made to improve the system short of of completely dismantling it and I think that reflects. To some extent, the degree to which Congress wants to do something, and this is what it has the power to do And where Republicans on this so? in the Senate who have the majority there. we're a little bit behind the curve year and are now racing to put together. Their own proposal abets being led by Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina He's the one black Republican in the Senate there two Black Democrats He's expected to introduce a bill next week. That will be a kind of narrower set of changes where the federal government will be mandating less onto state and local law enforcement agencies, but we'll try to collect better data and incentivize them to make changes on their own a my guess. Democrats are not going to be enamored of that bill. They're going to say it's a half measure. But you know the fact that it's coming along at all shows that Republicans in a way that really they have not in the past or trying to put forward some proposals on this issue Laura what role do you think this this debate over policing and the protests and sustained uprisings are going to play in the general election. Well. We've already seen a dramatic shift in where voters views of this entire moment and the black lives matter movement so. It's really been a dramatic shift, and in a matter of two weeks, and that's nearly as much as support for black lives matter moved in the last two years So you're seeing the result. Of these protests? In real time and the impact on the Americans on the American electorate you've also seen. Another poll found that police treatment of African Americans has changed dramatically in how people view that where sixty nine percent in the killing of Floyd George Floyd. Represented a broader problem with law enforcement, so because of these dramatic shifts among the American. People were seeing Congress react to that. This mass upheaval across the country were seen Democrats know that they really WanNa take action before the election and also Republicans in just the last week have shifted Karl Rove, told politico that you're watching a shift within the Republican Party in time now, whether or not that results in actual legislation or change taken by the president is another question but. Voters increasingly are saying that race relations and racism is a very big problem in this country, and that is something that they're thinking about is heading to the polls in November will and make more of them head to the polls. That's probably the question that Joe Biden wants answered. Right so in terms of black voters, the big question is with young black voters There's no doubt bite in likely winds, ninety percent of voters because consistently across the past elections they vote democratic. where there is softness is with young black voters, particularly black men, and it isn't really a question of is trump, gonna be able to pull over. You know a huge amount of them because that's not. Likely it's about whether or not they sit out the election, and so we see that with these protests they're very much about taking action. External to the system, which is the system has never worked for me. has never worked for my family and so. I'm going to go outside of it to exert pressure and what that ultimately can come down to with activist I've spoken to as well as democratic pollsters is. that. There is a risk that. Given all of the things that have been inflicted on black Americans in the past? Three months or more, also accounting to the fact that this is something that has existed for generations, but you have corona virus disproportionately impacted African American communities. You have the economic downturn that's also disproportionately impacted them, and then you have on this unrest around police brutality that has impacted them for generations, so all of that could either yes lead towards more going to the polls or also lead towards us some disillusionment with A. that they think doesn't work for them. Meanwhile, Nick Congress is having a hard time passing a law outlawing lynching of all things right now here in the year two thousand twenty. What what's happening there? Yeah, not the debate that you would expect Congress to be hung. In in twenty twenty, so for it's worth briefly meditating on the history here. For more than a century lawmakers in the house, and Senate try to introduce anti lynching legislation passed the House early in the twentieth century and racist southern senators were able to exploit Senate rules to block it for years and years and years now a measure would mostly be symbolic because of federal hate crime laws. They're already on the books, but. Lawmakers feel that it's important to kind of write this historic wrong, and so they put together an effort over the last few years. It passed the House earlier this year and ninety nine senators agree. this ought to become law one of them Rand Paul a Republican from Kentucky as opposed and he has particular opposition to the way the bill is written. He thinks it will basically set too low a standard charge someone group of people with lynching for something that historically wouldn't have been considered lynching. and so he has held up passage of that bill in the Senate trying to negotiate some sort of drafting change with with the authors in their basically impasse, it led a week ago to a pretty remarkable debate on the Senate floor about the history of race and lynching and policing in America. And frankly you know they're to stalemate right now. We don't know where that's going, but it just you know it's. It's a episode that underscores. How difficult legal changes in this area are and how slow that can incoming. And Laura also says something about Congress's ability to reconcile the country's. History of racial violence right. Yeah, that's true I. Mean we seen time and time again? Where Congress's very reactive as opposed to taking action on the Front End, and so I think that whether it's the lynching bill or also these police reforms that we're seeing Congress debate right now. There is very much legitimate question. About when if ever they will be able to pass a legislative bill like this low stick with you for a moment Georgia held their primary this week, and we saw people waiting in long lines, malfunctioning machines, low number of poll workers because of Corona virus there were reported people waiting for hours and hours the headline of your article about about it called it a hot flaming mess. What happens? Right so it was an election failure across the board in Georgia, and also Nevada had very similar problems, but in Georgia on. What it appears to have come down to was a new voting machines that were introduced into system that failed in a variety of forms. At counties across the state, and that resulted in voters waiting in line for three to five to six hours. Some of the last voters didn't leave polling places until one am in the morning and and again when this happens when there is such barriers to voting, we have studies show that it disproportionately impacts voters of color black voters. Brown voters and All the primaries that we've seen so far to date since corona virus resulted in lockdowns in a number of states is is long lines. Is this very This very hard process of voting where also the absentee ballot process, which a lot of states tried to improve in order to prepare because of the pandemic has also not gone off flawlessly at all. There have been issues with absentee ballots reaching voters in time. So it doesn't bode well for November and There is a lot of steps that states has to take between now, and then in order to make sure. That that, we don't see again these. Insanely long lines. Laura Baron Lopez national political reporter at politico and Nick Fend US congressional correspondent for the New York Times. Both of you thanks for being here. Thanks for sharing your reporting with us. Thanks for having me. Thanks for much. In the aftermath of went, black Americans are killed by police. We see outrage on social media calls for an investigation and sometimes protests, but nothing nothing compares to what we've seen over. The last three weeks sustained protests across the US and in national reckoning about who's perceived as dangerous by law enforcement this week, felonious Floyd George. Floyd's younger brother went to Washington to testify on Capitol Hill the man who took his life who suffocated him for eight minutes and forty six seconds. He's still called him Sir as he begged for his life. I can't tell you the kind of pain. You feel when you watch something like that. I'm here to ask you to make it stop. It's been about three weeks since his brother was killed by police officers in Minneapolis as communities have started to assess what's wrong with policing, so have our lawmakers this week. The justice and Policing Act was introduced on Capitol Hill. If passed, the bill would prohibit, choke holds ban some no knock warrants track police misconduct at the national level and make it easier to pursue legal civil action against police misconduct Congressman James Clyburn from South Carolina has spent his entire life fighting for civil rights. I spoke with him about the new bill, the calls to defend the police, and how far we've come since his days in the civil rights movement. We've come a very long way, not knee as far. As we need to go. We all know that policing. was put in place for the expressed purpose. Of keeping check. On slaves. That's what this is all about. And police was used in the drink the Jim Crow era. For the suppressing. Abide folks. And policing. was used in the sixties. To put down. Peaceful demonstrations. The first time John Lewis ever physically attacked was in rock hill South Carolina. I was there in something my hometown. When JT McCain. Brought John Lewis. To something from Rocco. To nurses wounds and send them back up to wash. A lot of people don't realize John Lewis. the full freedom riot trip. Because he had been injured in Rock Hill. And that was a policeman. Who came to Washington before he died. You sit down and apologize to John Lewis so we know. What, it's all about so. Now we're not going as far as we need to go up because the country is still not admit. That's the kind of system we put in place. If policing has been the source of so much violence and bloodshed, for for now centuries, and it stems from slave, patrols can be reformed. Can it be fixed, or is it just systemically structured to oppress a black and poor people? It must be restructured our social order. There is no secret as to why more black and Brown people are die because of the nineteen than white people because I have. Never System. It's not structured. On their behalf is no secret the educational system. That we have in this country. That's been structured. We Fund. Quite majority White School district at a higher level. They be fun majority black school districts. We know that the reason our. Educational System is financed the way it is. is to keep. Their from being equal. Application of funding to black and white schools. We know that. So it has to be restructured our judicial system our educational system. System all have been structured. That way, so I'm saying again. Restructure restructured restructured restructured, but not defunding. That's what I said I know. What the word fund me and anytime you are using words that you gotta go out. Explain what it means that means. You're leaving it up to next president here the word to explain the they want to. If you got there explained the term. You lose the argument. Let's talk about this first step in terms of. Restructuring the justice and Policing Act of twenty, twenty introduced this week in the House and Senate, the bill seeks the band show colds, and no knock warrants and drug cases it would create a national registry for police misconduct and make it easier to pursue legal civic civil action against police misconduct. Does that go part of the way toward This restructuring that you're talking about this bill. Yes it does it goes -nificant positive way. Not all the way, but this is a great star, and now it hope. That what the Senate is doing? They're about to put their version They ought to go the rest of the way and the oldest ought by. Passing the immaterial Anti Lynching Law. The Senate is stopping that law. We pass it in the house. What are the chances in the Senate? And then, and then what about the president do you have any idea? Fees committed to making some sort of efforts in this regard. Unless, there's going to be some significant. Public. Fresher. This president is kid. Not to maintain the status quo D- he is dedicated to turn the clock back. Retrogression. On the social. Side of things is what this president is all about. You, you've protesters out there who see obviously the president has as an instructional when it comes to this issue, but they also think that the Democrats aren't going far enough. They say they're tired of hearing. Politicians talk about police reforms, and they say there's just a systemic issue here with policing. You spoke of it yourself. How police descended from slaves, patrols and more reforms, more implicit bias, training and body cameras won't stop the bloodshed What what do you say that? This trial passing a law, and see without argument veil, as as we looked back on the results of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen, sixty four, how about voting rights act of Nineteen Sixty Fi-? How about the Elementary Secondary Education Act of nineteen sixty five the Higher Education Act. Of Nineteen sixty five. You go down through the so-called great society programs that my Republican friends cheap line about saying that they failed, they did not fail. Medicare and Medicaid or not fails. They're still with US voting. Rights Act did not feel the Civil Rights Act did not fail elementary secondary education that did not fail hires kiss next now fail. These acts did not fail. Clyburn. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate talking to you. Thank you. When protesters to the streets a few weeks ago, we heard chance like stop killing us. Black lives matter hold police accountable. Increasingly the Progressive Policy Prescription is to de fund the police while many high-ranking members of the Democratic Party don't support calls to the fund the police entirely the notion of some form of the funding is picking up traction as the calls the defunding, even abolish the police grow louder. I wanted to understand what a world without police might look like so sat down with Andrea Ritchie a researcher at the interrupting criminalization. Initiative as well as Alex. vitale professor of sociology at Brooklyn College, there's currently. Programs on the ground, all across the country, real campaigns to intervene local budget processes to shift specific resources from policing in jails and youth lockups over to community identified social needs, but there is also a bigger vision out there. People WanNa live in a world where safety isn't provided by people with guns, and what about the idea of abolishing the police? What's the distinction there between abolition and defunding? Think abolition is a kind of overarching theoretical framework for how we approach the problems of policing and society that framework says. Policing are inherently a source of harm, and they have historically reproduce race and class inequalities, and therefore anytime we turn a problem over to the police to manage. We're validating in enacting that potential for for violence and discrimination, so that it demands of us to always search for solutions to our problems that that don't rely on that problematic institution. What happens if and when there are emergencies like a sexual assault or a robbery or homicide? If we are working toward a place, where police departments as we know, them cease to exist. The system we have in place now doesn't prevent a lot of those harms. That's about police taking reports after harms of already been committed. And in many communities, they're so little trust between the public and the police. You don't even call the police in situations, violence, and and when they're in real danger, and we have to acknowledge that because what people are demanding is not that we make people less safe. It's that make people more say. That we have specific targeted programmatic interventions that are going to be more successful at preventing harms and repairing those arms than just relying on armed police who come after the violence is already happened. Okay, let's get into some of the practicality behind some of the stuff. In in today's political environment, Andrea recent polling from Washington Post found that sixty nine percent of Americans found the killing of George. Floyd represents a broader problem within law enforcement. That's up from two thousand fourteen. Just forty three percent of people agreed with that that premise. What does that jump indicate to you about the appetite for more radical approaches to police accountability today? People are saying this is the time for solutions of the future which require us to really build a world where an allegation of afford twenty dollar bill cannot lead you to be suffocated to death on camera, and people want to build a world where the war on drugs can't result in a black woman, being killed in her home in her sleep, and that is what's motivating people's demands around de-fund the police right now and people are particularly motivated in that respect because we are in the. The middle, both of pandemic that has revealed how structural inequalities affecting black and other communities, including native communities are literally deadly on now a mass scale, and that police violence also continues to be deadly on a mass scale, and that we're facing an economic crisis in which programs we need to survive. The pandemic are being slashed while the budgets of the people who are perpetrating the steadily violence against black communities in the middle of the pandemic. That's killing, so many of us are not being touched. Andrew you're someone who's worked as a police misconduct attorney. Can you tell us why? Activists a move away from calling for police reform. What of people seen in their their lived experiences that have made them believe that the ideas of police reform as we've traditionally known them are just don't work, and they're now calling for defunding the police. May I think there have been decades. Frankly centuries of commissions, enquiries, recommendations, impact litigation lawsuits consent decrees policy reform, I think most recently folks following Ferguson had. We're calling for individual prosecutions and the pattern and practice investigation, which revealed the structural nature of police violence in Ferguson and. By extension across the country, people saw recommendations that came from the federal government. They saw cities like Minneapolis like Louisville like other cities across the country adopt those policies and reforms on paper. And then they saw a man being choked to death. In while the officer was impassively staring at a young black woman, who was filming him for nine minutes, and they saw a black woman sleeping in her bed, gunned down in her own home, and they saw someone who was experiencing homophobic and transphobic by and needed help gunned down near their home, and they said this is clearly not working, and I think as who sued the police in New York City for fifteen years and around the country and engaged impact litigation. I came to the same conclusion. Nothing I. I was doing and I certainly engaged in police reform efforts at the local state and federal level and supported groups around the country and trying to change policy and trying to shift funding on the federal government to get some accountability through that I saw that it changed nothing about the problems and experiences that people were bringing to me as clients or that communities were organizing oil and so I think many folks say that's it. We're done. We're done with that strategy at this point we need to really. Re Imagine how we achieve public safety and we need to invest in the things that will actually do that. And those things are also the things that will keep us safer during a pandemic, and we'll help survive the greatest economic crisis of our generation housing healthcare employment mental health care. Responses to mental health that don't wait for a moment of crisis and then send in an armed police officer who's more likely to kill disabled people in that moment than the rest of the General Population Alex I'm curious to talk more about how to sell this politically. You have the president who can take the words, the phrase defunding police, and then use them to attack Democrats and progressives as being soft on Crime Democrats. Themselves are wary of using that phrase. Many of them are law, and order has always been such a potent political argument in this country, and it's it's helped. Scores of politicians win elections. How can you counter that? Well first of all you know, policing is primarily a local issue and I agree we're not going to solve this problem right now in Washington sense the killing of Floyd in Minneapolis. We've seen a huge explosion in the number of people supporting these movements. public budget hearings lasting through the night, and into the next morning and places like Nashville Tennessee North Hampton Massachussetts, and we've seen local officials beginning respond not adequately, but at least beginning to show what this might look like mayors in Los Angeles Minneapolis and New York in San Francisco, agreeing that police budgets are too large and that we need to shift. Some of those resources to community identified needs. I will say though on the federal level there seems to be a disconnect between that kind of thinking, and what activists and protesters are arguing on the street, and then what the leadership within the Democratic Party is saying. I spoke with Congressman Clyburn on the show about the justice and policing act, and he said he was just against the idea of defunding the police. And he he said it was just a slogan that would have to be explained to voters. He likes the the idea of restructuring the police departments instead. Alex, what would you say to Congressman? Clyburn, isn't he and and those? National Democrats don't they represent a significant hurdle for this movement? You know I'm not wedded to any particular slogan or or two word description of this movement you know define the police kind of emerged organically something that could go on a cardboard sign or a Hashtag, but this movement is clear about what it wants. It wants the redirection of resources from criminalization to community, empowerment, health, and safety, and so we don't need congress to pass a defunding police bill. We need Congress to quit subsidizing local police to dial back drug war to get rid of. Sesto foster that criminal is is sex work and put new resources into bringing counselors and social workers back into our schools to creating high-quality, medically based drug treatment programs to help combat the OPIOID crisis. These are things Congress could do right away without having to get caught up in the language of defunding police Andrea are you concerned about the democratic establishment at large, that doesn't seem moved by this idea of defending the police Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee says he will not support calls to the fund the police. I'm wondering you know the same question. I asked Alex. where does this leave the this movement and the police abolition movement? At Large if National Democrats who are in power are so staunchly against it I think that definitely there are significant portions of democratic leadership that are completely out of step with what people on the ground are demanding and frankly what's needed to meet this moment and to honor the lives of George, Floyd Brianna Taylor Tony the date and so many people who have been killed or harmed by police. Police and again. This is not the time for solutions of the past which have failed us. This is the time for solutions of the future where we are going to build a world premised on genuine safety and accountability and sustainability, thriving for our communities, and particularly for black and brown communities, and so people could look for instance agree with Alex. they don't need to introduce the defunct police. Police bill if they're not happy with the HASHTAG, but they can look to representative Ianna Presley's People's justice guarantee which has provision in it that specifically would redirect funding from law enforcement to supporting communities to come up with different responses to nine one one calls that would support community members. Help them that would redirect money to the kinds of community based transformative approaches to safety that Alex. Alex was just talking about that would redirect money from pouring police officers armed police officers into schools who commit not only physical violence that sexual violence in schools and instead move that money to flooding those schools with counselors and resources that will assist young people and surviving and thriving and learning restorative justice practices that they can then take out into their communities to help mediate prevent transform harp. Alexandria, thank you so much for the really compelling conversation I appreciate it. You're most welcome. Thanks so much for having us. Alex Vitale is professor of sociology at Brooklyn. College and the author of the end of policing an Andrea. Ricci is a researcher at the Interrupting Criminalization Initiative and author of invisible, no more police violence against black women and women of color. Minneapolis has been in the national spotlight since George Floyd was killed by police on video, although the events there sparked protests across the nation, the city is also a catalyst for change. We spoke with one Progressive City leader who has been working on police reform since he took office in two thousand eighteen cities of the laboratories of democracy, and we're also the employers of police departments, and so we are going to be the ones who need to lead in this conversation. And I think it's important for everybody to remember that this conversation is a life or death. Conversation is about everybody's sense of public safety and wellbeing in the community they live in. Fletcher was among nine members of the Minneapolis. City Council that recently announced their commitment to dismantling the city's police department. Council member Fletcher talked us through how the council got there. I don't WanNa. Speak for my colleagues, because I think we each got to that decision in a different way, but for me I came to that decision having spent now two and a half years on the council, attempting reforms and watching those reforms meet resistance watching those reforms fail watching those reforms kind of wither on. On the vine, and not have an impact and learning a lot about the deep structural problems that are really not within our power to overcome to try to fix the existing structure, and so for me. That's part of what informed my work. Another thing that informed my work was the persistent calls from community to consider bigger structural changes that have been a part of the Minneapolis. Minneapolis landscape by really coming out of the organizing around Jim, Clark's death in twenty sixteen, and so the there's been a lot of groundwork laid for an analysis and a vision for what of future of public safety might look like by a lot of really smart, dedicated activists and advocates, and I think that that was a part of the process, but then the biggest part of. Of the process for me was hearing. My own constituents really identify to me the ways that they're analysis was changing in light of events on the ground, and that's both a reflection of one of the things. I really love about my community. Is that and I'm not at all surprised by this? Is that when they saw that? Awful video of Derek. Shaaban murdering George Floyd. They had a very strong reaction that said this cannot happen in our name. It is beyond what we can take to see something like this. Happen in a uniform with our cities logo on it, but even more than that. When we saw the escalations when we saw the opportunity that our police department had to distance themselves from that video to be a de escalating force to try to make peace to try to assert a different set of values that opportunity was met instead by really closing the ranks and defending their precincts fairly aggressively in a way that escalated protests into something that felt more like a battle, tear gas and rubber bullets, and we spent a week, not feeling protected first of all, because really we saw the the precinct building itself being the only thing being protected in our community, but also. We got this awful sense that this wasn't just a few officers. That there was a willingness to be defensive of and an complicit in that kind of violence by not everybody. I think there are actually some genuinely good people who intended to embark on a career civil service. Who will get lost in all of us, but it didn't. It didn't feel to any of us like it's just a few bad apples anymore right and I think it's the story that many of us try to tell ourselves. So so, what's what's next, then Where do you go from here with this proposal? So this is where we really go back to community. There's an uneasiness anytime. You Roll Out a vision where people say. Oh, my God you don't have a plan. But if we had come to people with the plan, it would have been really doing to people rather than with people, and what really is going to work for any kind of a community safety strategy is going to be deep engagement so that our whole community is brought in. In to a vision of what makes them feel safe. What makes them feel supported? And what makes them feel like? Their values are being represented in our cities work, and that is not gonna be a short process, so we're going to be working in parallel to make sure that in the meantime nine one one calls are being answered to make sure that we have a response to people's immediate safety needs as we begin. The process of redesigning public safety looks like and creating an entirely separate public safety infrastructure for our city. Is what you're proposing. A some more radical activists may call police abolition. We will probably end up in a tough conversation with some folks who are. Pure abolitionists. Because I think that if we are as we have these community conversations about our city I think the question that's going to come up for people is there are a lot of guns in our community? What do we do about you know? You can look to models and other countries where police forces generally don't have guns or use. Use Weapons in a serious way, but they also don't have a lot of weapons out in their community, and so we do have to have some ability to respond to the threat of violence I think that's one of the things that we're gonNA. Hear. It makes people feel safe. I. Do think that we don't need to lead with that. I think that a majority of our interactions, and certainly all of our maybe self directed interactions. City initiated interactions. Could be people who aren't leading with guns in a badge. Your Mayor Jacob Fry said recently that he does not support abolishing the Minneapolis, police department and protests. He said he didn't even want to define. The police got booed off the street. What kind of conversations are you having with the mayor about? This framework moving forward. you know I think we're in a place where there's a lot that we agree on but there's also a lot we disagree on. I think he fundamentally. Seems to not want to. Go the route that we declared our intention to go, and and there's going to be a debate and disagreement and I think that's okay. I think it's important for us to have this discussion out in the open and recognize that you know people have different approaches to it in a PC published in time you talked about how your attempts have police reform, and the first two years in office were met with institutional resistance. WHO's resisting these changes institutionally? That's one of the tough things. About, some of the ways that the resistance comes forward is that it's not always clear it could be a group of individual officers could be coordinated through the federation or some other group, but what you do find is that you suddenly get a lot of calls from constituents who are being seemingly intentionally under served and being told that they should attribute that. Lack of service to the council and call and put pressure on me. and so that was something that happened. You know it. It was almost a reliable occurrence when I would do something on the council. That wasn't popular in the Police Department. And this is going much further than reforms reform proposals from the past, or are you worried about? Retribution from the police against your your constituents with this new proposal that you have out there sure and I think that the the fact that the threat of that has been part of what's shaping public safety policy is one of the things that we have to finally stand up to I. Mean I think think about how toxic that is that you're even asking that question. That, we're having a conversation about are. Are you worried about engaging a democratic process of public engagement around a vision for public safety? Because city employees might retaliate against your constituents. That sounds like something that we have to do something about a council member will. We will be watching Minneapolis to see what happens. council member Fletcher. Thank you so much for joining us on takeaway. My, pleasure, thanks for having me. Steve Fletcher is a member of City Council in Minneapolis. All right everyone! It's been great talking with you here. On politics with Amy Walter Amy is back next week and Tanzania. Vega is in on Monday as usual. Our senior politics producer is amber hall. The show this week was produced by Patricia Geico as well as Catarina Barton Paalea Room Goo is our digital editor and David Gable is our executive assistance. Jake how it is editor Debbie. daughtry was at the Ford this week in the studio at WNYC. With Vince. Fairchild, who directed the show? Our executive producer Lee Hill, then of course, call us anytime at eight seven seven eight might take or send us a tweet on that Matt Katz Zero Zero K T Z and the show is at the takeaway. Thanks so much for listening. This is politics with Amy Walter on the takeaway.
Remembering Rep. John Lewis, Civil Rights Leader And 'The Conscience Of Congress'
"From NPR WBZ BOSTON. Marty. This is on point. We, are tired of being policemen. We're kind of people. Love them in jail all in all in your hobby. How can we meet? We won't our freedom. A twenty-three-year-old John Lewis speaking at the march on Washington in nineteen, sixty three. Congressman Lewis died on Friday. He was eighty years old and throughout his life he never stopped making good trouble necessary trouble as he called it expanding his push for justice and civil rights to the fight for gay marriage to the need once again to protect voting rights to calling for an end to gun violence as he did here in two thousand sixteen. We were elected to lead. Speaker. We must be had likes. Likes! We cannot continue to stick our heads in the sand and the reality of mass gun violence in our nation. Headlights shining forever forward toward the expansion of the American ideal until quote, true freedom comes Lewis said until the revolution of Seventeen, seventy six is complete. Will this hour on point Bernard Lafayette, the Reverend Jesse Jackson Senior Representative James Clyburn join us to remember the life and legacy of John Lewis. We will start today with Aaron Hanes though she is editor at large for the Nineteenth, a nonprofit news organization reporting on Gender Politics and policy, and she joins us from Philadelphia and welcome back to the show. Magnette thank you so much. It's good to be with you although for. A very sad occasion. Of course. have been thinking about this all weekend. There is a page turning in American history. We had a death of Congressman Lewis. Just just your thoughts on what's the nation has now lost since his passing. Absolutely well I would say with the passing of John Lewis, and also I should say the Reverend C T Vivian. who was another civil rights leader? Both a them died in Atlanta. Just hours apart and. These these types of men and women, this generation you know what they survived, and and what they sacrificed in in trying to really make this country live up to its founding ideals right until the revolution of seventy, seventeen, seventy six is complete as congressman Lewis said. With with their passing. For so many years, just just their physical presence. In many ways was a guardrail for this country, a reminder not only of. An era that did I. I would say most of the country does not want to go back to but but of the progress That was hard, fought and won. and so you know without those people here I think that there is a real fear and concern especially as we've seen kind of the retrenchment of racism in our current. Political and social climate. Even as we see people pushing back against that and tried to reject in this national reckoning on race that we see in a lot of that is in the spirit of folks like Congressman Lewis and Reverend me. Right you know so. There are just a sort of. Coincidences in history. Maybe not incidences facts in history that give give me goosebumps sometimes right because. You remind rightly that Reverend CT Vivian and Congressman Lewis died within hours of each other. It just suddenly popped into my mind that you know talking about the unfinished worker or the real realizing the founding principles of this country like Thomas Jefferson and John Adams died within hours of each other to answer. I think I would put both Reverend Vivian I would definitely without a doubt, but both Reverend Vivian and Congressman Lewis and Lewis in the same firmament as founders of champions of what we what should be the American ideal. That's absolutely right I. mean those men and Women you know the folks who were on the front lines, but also you know the foot soldiers whose names and faces we don't always know are among our country's founding founding mothers and fathers, because they really did help to make our democracy real for so many who had been so long excluded. I mean I think about I think. Think about that generation you know especially the women of that generation to who had to fight twice as hard to get the vote that we celebrate obviously with this intention of the Nineteenth Amendment for which mine newsroom is named, but but really much like the greatest generation, which we honor a lot for defending freedom during World War Two these black Americans are really. Survive battle at, and they helped strengthen our union. Well Erin. If you can just stand by for a moment I'd like to now turn to South Carolina Excuse me, South Carolina, Congressman! James Clyburn he joins us from Washington Congressman, Clyburn. Thank you very much. John Lewis was your was your friend for many decades both in? Activism for for Civil Rights and in service in the Congress. Can you tell us what you you miss most? You will miss most about him. We'll thank you so much for that. John and I were friends for six decades. Reserved here in the Congress, together for almost three of those decades. We've met back in October. Nineteen Sixty Day. It was during the time, but there is some disenchantment. Inside the movement quite frankly the night. Figures was Tober fourteenth of fifteen. Is when we set up with Dr Chain from around ten o'clock in the evening to almost four o'clock the next morning. And we were debating. What the best tactics were! became out of that meeting and convinced. The Monitor Luther King Junior's tactic of nonviolence was the best for us. That is a weekend that we organize the student nonviolent Coordinating Committee. By, its name People knew that we were buying in. Two kings philosophy now for many of us. We adopted non violence as a tactic, not John Lewis. John Lewis internalized nonviolence. It became his way of life. And he continued. Right up to the end. Background non-involvement the snake is we called it. was taken away from us. It was taken away over. Tactics stokely Carmichael and others felt. That, they needed to be more activism more direct action but they took it to a level. The John was not comfortable with. The headlines. Coming, out, of that, effort. burn, Baby Burn. John was very concerned about that several months ago and he and I talked about it. The fact that we lost our. Back in nineteen sixty s overhead lines and we did not want to see the black lives matter movement. Lose momentum. And lose its effectiveness overhead lines, so both of US spoke out against defunding police. We thought that was sloganeering. That could be helpful. And so John and I spoke Saturday before last now this Saturday for passed away. We express love for each other but I knew that that was the last time that we will get to talk. Congressman Clyburn. To have been a fly on the wall on that night, you and Mr Lewis Dr King Sat together I can only imagine. How transformative a moment in history that was! Can you tell us a little bit more about the? So so so the fight is never ends the United States has made progress, but not enough. Can you tell us a little bit more? About how Congressman Lewis? saw this moment where we see once again. Marching feet marching in the streets of the United States for the continuation of the work of civil rights. You know. The sound too strange, but. John what out to black lives? Matter Platter Plaza with the of Washington. He asked that occurred early in the morning. and. They stood in that plaza together. On the night the morning after he passed away. I woke up. And our look out of my window I. saw the sun coming up. And I've thought about on and that plaza. And I went outside. And set up my tripod. And did some. I've never done before individually. Film. Or video to. My tribute to him. because I knew. That the best thing that we could do for jar. would be to restore. The Voting Rights Act of Nineteen, Sixty five that act came about. Signed into law August six, nineteen, sixty five. After Bloody Sunday in February of nineteen, sixty five eat blood. A Sunday on the mccullers bridge gave life gave life to the Voting Rights Act. I believe that after the supreme, court has now gutted that by. Getting rid of the formula insects and four. really rendered that act useless so what we need to do now. is on John Lewis. By following the Road Map that Justice Roberts gave us telling us what we needed to do in order to make a constitutional again. Mustaches now working. With other staffs here on the hill, staffers speaker Pelosi. Leader haulier. Chairman. Bennie Thompson and Marcia Fudge. We're trying to put on the floor this week. The John R Lewis voting. Rights Act of twenty two. Because John worked hard. For the seven years since that decision by the Supreme Court in the show bay the holder. Trying to restore that act. Less restart in John's name. And that's send it off to the Senate and we ought to pass it. And the President or the sided? Well. South Carolina. Congressman James Clyburn also. House, Democratic whip and long time friend of Congressman John Lewis. Congressman Clyburn thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks very much. Aaron hanes standby for just a moment. I also want to note that the house did pass another voting rights restoration act. That is still sitting on Senator Mitch McConnell's desk. We'll be back. This is on point. This is on point magnetic regarding remembering. John Lewis Today. The civil rights icon Georgia Congressman died on Friday he was eighty years old back in two thousand, seventeen Lewis recorded a letter to his younger self. He did that for CBS this morning here. He is reading a part of that. John Lewis. You're so full of passion. Your lifetime you will be arrested forty. TIMES, Your mission to help redeem the soul of American. Will Aaron Hanes joins US today. She's editor at large for the Nineteenth, a nonprofit news organization that reports on gender politics and policy an errand before the break. You listened with us to Congressman James. Clyburn talking about the house. Putting forward another voting rights, act. Which is? A terrific idea and would there could be no better way to. To honor John Lewis his legacy, but as I quickly noted at the end of that segment they had already done, so they passed one in December of two, thousand, nine, thousand, nine hundred, and it has gone nowhere in the Senate. Senator, Mitch McConnell won't put it. Put it down. Put It on the floor for a vote, so there is already the opportunity here to. To honor John Lewis and yet, for some reason, it's just not happening in Congress. Right, but you know I really do believe that with the passing of Congressman Lewis especially for so many of his colleagues in Congress. was voting rights being kind of the? Signature issue that he was most identified with. That issue is going to take on new an even stronger meaning. For, folks, who are trying to make that legislation real. and. I think that that is a way that they see i. mean you see within? seventy two hours of John Lewis, passing that that this strategy is already in motion as a way that they feel I would be the most appropriate way to honor congressman, Lewis Legacy. And I think voting rights and the issue of voter suppression was something that was already on the ballot for a lot of voters, particularly black voters right but but but I think that. The the Congress passing is really. Something that could go a long way to galvanising not only black voters, but I also think black lawmakers, and and really any what was concerned with the issue of voting rights and ballot access which used to be a bipartisan issue, but but has become. Pretty polarizing politicized. In recent years, and so really to make it. About John. Lewis, somebody who? Was Beloved on both sides of the aisle by so many I. Think Really refrains and potentially resets this conversation for some folks in the interesting to see. If if If Congress is able to to make. Some headway on this legislation in a way that they were not when the congressman was still with us. Right know but although. If just to sort of lay bare some of My personal cynicism here. It, what does it say about America that it takes? John, Lewis and other. Activists in nineteen, sixty five having their heads crack bashed in by police while trying to cross the Pettus Bridge to to galvanize. The signing of the First Voting Rights Act in nineteen, sixty, five and then. Decades later it takes. The same man's passing to possibly re galvanized the movement to restore that very act right. Sure and also go ahead. And also congressman Claburn grant who was on the front lines, if they as a young man in South Carolina fighting for voting rights, fighting for civil rights is now still on the frontlines, and he is almost eighty years old. Right still pushing for a lot of the same things that he was fighting for as as a young man, but I think you know I think what we know how America is that that racial progress and backlash have always been the pushing pull of this democracy and that you know people of of Congressman Clyburn Congressman Lewis Generation were declaring in their time. That black lives matter and they were fighting to make the country recognized this as a statement of fact an. As I believe you were saying earlier. This is at my something does have to be defended over and over again? In this democracy in these. It's you know things like voting rights are. You know they are fragile and You know folks who are committed. To. Making the country live up to its founding. Ideals must be vigilant about that in in every generation. Well Aaron Hang on here for just a moment because I'd like to now turn to the Reverend Jesse Jackson senior. He's founder of the Rainbow Coalition former presidential candidate, and of course. Longtime civil rights activist and icon as well. He worked alongside Congressman Lewis for decades and was also as people should remember. He was with Dr. Martin Luther King Junior at the Lorraine Motel in Memphis. On the day Dr. King was assassinated. So Reverend Jackson Welcome to the program. Your Wars Magda. So Reverend Jackson first of all tell us what is it that you will miss most? In your friend John Lewis. Signal, book was sitting there and leaders. that. The six years I've missed the call him on the phone. Call from him. I think one of the mistakes been million and that was happening John. Join the movement. After fifty eight years of legal. Pot. Separate but equal decision. Services they've been moshing led the drive. Cosmic a modern to make pot illegal. Magnificent to fool. Most hookup may sending. All sixty five. put it this way. I pause London And she said well. We're testing for the ballot. And southbound I in the back of the bus but I imagine I couldn't go back. To the most period there. And so Jones joined up the King Rosa Parks. Protection the law because eight years to get from. Combination of the back of the bus. John John. Breath conclusion. Thing? Is that that if I go back was democracy was born in something Alabama. Not. At the same ideals. On! My Mellow. That was no that. Exploit back in that quite willing to vote. black. And so. That Osama blast of over the personnel department as Women is. Aging. A Sandwich board campuses. Bilingual. The moccasins Alabama. Not. Rink. So Reverend Jackson. Your phone lines are a little shaky here so I just want to recap a tiny bit. If people couldn't hear all of it, you talked about. Talked about plus. Versus Ferguson. Essentially gave us a history of of. The work and fight to expand that American ideal that you were talking about does. The frame may seventeen fifty four. August six, nine, thousand, six, hundred, the frame John John John. wrote. The book and for? The. Join the movement live. With Marsha the legal foundation. The huge decision to make A. Legal imperative for. The state's rights barbarism abounded. and. Protection from denying the right to vote. The back of the bus. And in Washington. and John Lewis for from shows in Florida Maryland. Between us a Singapore toilet. Browser bad not printing the WanNa marry Roach basic. We couldn't. We couldn't use holiday and how? Does. That will start looking. Trump was followed by a sort of had mature. Meaning those which? Controls struggle that has. Lasted that yeah. Yeah. Well I mean to your point. Mr Lewis was what's like you said he was seventeen when he first wrote to Dr King. Because, he wanted to go to. What's now called Troy Troy University so I take your your point very very well reverend, Jackson. But what would you describe? Then? How? How do you view then how we should see as Congressman Lewis as role in that? The bigger historical movement that you're talking about your, join this filthy. And I can to sit insert place in Greensboro North Carolina. There were first. So informed Snick is sorta version in in the spring of that year. I was GONNA. Fall a bit yet nineteen sixty. And connected to the Ransall they were not for the. Duration of the end of the joined the movement that was already in progress. Lie Mental and Tumble George A. Join the movement. To? Lose you. moshing around the country. And so John Courage and his. Willingness to suffer. Class. I said I was joking about sending team since I must say. But, John About turn the back last. She's. The most the most. Longest. A long distance runner. What you do, you have a favorite memory of congress of Congressman, Lewis that you think sort of really demise, the kind of man he was. A. Sit around talking to. That same day, she you. From Tacoma CJ Senate in Nineteen Point, seven and McCall on. Eight years before Montgomery. fourteen years for citizens. We. Send talking with guys. We've been in that of long time. That's I. Remember sitting around talking about. This are we things in the bungalow? Would we we would. That's I urge those. Be. At the end and going struggle. Soon right now. We've got the right book sixty five. Then thirteen the Robin would happen. Took it stain. and. Philip Protection. We it must be. It must like for the cost of the right to vote. Rather movement. Costas right to vote. You. End Up. Printing time. Causes A. Separate. Elections will not. Elected grab fifty elections. That's apparatus. One for Washington one so. You Know Mississippi wasn't. SEATTLE. One for Miami. National next year. would. Turn the right. I hope that today. WAS NOT. Just don't believe voting power costs the least Petrola. Under, central this. Positive determine baby for each. Term Very of politicians. So politics the. PATROLMAN! Example and in Minnesota Joyce lawless kill. I remember governor. Prosecute from the county. She Easy Gimme. He do nothing. About the guy who kills US law. Will we way? We get Keith Ellison. Said Attorney General who? AMATEUR DO I say Yo turns out. He arrested the four jobs. For Osama. Bin. Ever, for killing a black in Minnesota. Politics Police. When the young man was killed in In and then loud Georgia. Allow elect elect Paul how the Charles America. So John John, Thaw said. You're still don't police to me like after their miss. The politics of the bone marrow to sing those legend. were. Interesting so just just underscore it, you said you said as defunding. The police's like the EPA terms, but politics is the mayor right of how you make change in in the United States I've just got a minute or two left with you, Reverend Jackson. I just want US see more question. On Saturday you put out a statement about congressman. Lewis you said he is what patriotism and courage look like. Can you just tell us a little bit more about the character of this man that you knew so well? Willing to Grad the freedom the buses. All all the bus I was local. All the. The. Helen Brown buses and Trevor Bus. And you just sit in the colored section. The freedom rides. About the way. Was a dangerous mission. They said the bustle. Alabama. John was on the percents so in Rock Hill South Carolina. Alabama. Real risks or Came to allow to? Hang! For taking it for the south. Danger junk took the danger and. He Music Brennan Bus. Will bring them bridge. I Want Watson. Journalist said we. Forty Dad. Member Joyce he had more black cabinet does. Something up. So we talk. Turn the. Dogs loose on all the marches. Just as he's played this same CAC. If I, if I had not let the truth is. The mob! Mob has been worse. Never heard. They have to disperse the mob. Marches. Kinda back in federal, thinking to deal with. So that that. We didn't anticipate the confrontation. In. Georgia session now the charger. And is this? Being heard. FOOD LOSSES IT'S BEEN BEING looked. The or assemble. John Lewis and. Miss Miss A megaport. They'll leave her out important season. In, Dallas, how the bose the? Chan bind up the king to. Indy some of that year. At the guess of Della, channels. I'M! Since birth best pieces here. On the show awesome the workhorse. John was on. On jeopardy. Champion, win. They'd rather people show this. Heroes where people? Who John Show on the bus. Routes show and the voter I say. It gets. Don't give him Louise. Ago. And John at that time to be there for the rights. Along with end. To The the. Leave to get stop giving. Well Jesse Jackson. Reverend Jesse Jackson senior I. Thank you so very much for joining us today to help remember congressman. John Lewis Thank you. And Aaron. Aaron hanes stand by for just a moment. We'll have more when we come back. This is on point. This is on point. I'm Marco Bharti. We're talking about the life of Congressman. John Lewis. He died on Friday at the age of eighty, and just before the break. We were speaking with the Reverend Jesse Jackson senior. Now it's live radio, so I just want to acknowledge that. His phone line was pretty rough and it might have been difficult to understand what he was saying. I kept going with that conversation. Because it's just too important right now, so my staff doesn't even know I'm about to do this but I'm about to ask them what we'll do the very best that we can go back and listen to that conversation with the Reverend Jackson and get a transcription of it up on our website. As soon as we can, because he actually had a lot of very important things to say in memory of Congressman Lewis, which are worth at least us being able to to read hopefully. By by this evening, so sorry staff, but that's what you have to do. In moments of history and I appreciate the work that we're going to do to scramble to make that happen now. Listen one thing that we definitely were able to here. Is that the Reverend Jesse Jackson and Aaron Hanes also joins us this hour both mentioned that also on Friday. The Reverend C T. Vivian died. He was a trusted adviser to Dr Martin Luther King Junior. A famed civil rights leader himself the reverend. Vivian was so here. He is in the early nineteen sixties, confronting a Dallas. County sheriff, who was preventing black people from registering to vote. But believe me those that followed hip. No like you blindly follow this Sheriff Clarke. Who didn't their day would come? But they also were polled into courtrooms, and they are so given their death sentences you not this bad racist, but you are racist. The same way that Hitler was a racist and your blindly following a man. That's leading you down the road. That's going to bring you in the Federal Court. I am representing people in Dallas County and I have that right to do so now, and there's I represent them, and they can speak for themselves one to. Two thinking and what you believe. This is not a local problem. This is a national problem. You thank you for anyone in the United States. Without hurting the rights of other citizens democracies built on this. Why every man has the right to both regardless? That's the Reverend Vivian in the early nineteen sixties. He also died on Friday the same day. As congressman John Lewis now, Aaron you wrote. A piece for the Washington Post this weekend about Reverend Vivian there might be some listeners out there who are less familiar with him than Congressman Lewis. Can you just tell us a little bit more about Reverend Vivian? Absolutely and thank you for bringing that up because of Tindale Vivian and congressman, Lewis, their destinies weren't intertwined all the way up until their deaths C T Vivian was part of the Nashville student movement. Sit Ins just like Congressman Lewis. That clip that you just played. With, SETV, and confronting sheriff carpet was a month before bloody Sunday C T Vivian also fought for voting rights and staredown, white supremacy and violence. He was punched in the face. By Sheriff, Clarke for daring to challenge You know the the What was happening down in Selma and demanding that black voters be be registered to vote. C T Vivian was also awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom Barak Obama. Because of his his lifelong commitment to civil and human rights and You know it's important. Not to lift him up, even as we are lifting up congressman Lewis because we really Kenna on our congressman without honoring C, t Vivian and I think that it is. It is fitting that that they passed on the same day in the same city because see Vivian has a. that that really was just as large, but but you know if I can just take a second to to to add listening to Reverend Jackson. you know I started my career interview and a lot of these people Reverend Vivian. Ambassador Young Congressman, Lewis Reverend, Jackson and and others and and you know I was interviewing them about the legacy of of the work that they did right. And and I now find myself covering the threat. To that progress that did they fought for? And these are men and women who at their age now have lived long enough to see both the gains and the losses of their efforts and and yet. These these really are heroes. These people who were always willing to fight until they took their last breath for what they believed in right. I mean for Dr King, obviously, that was age thirty nine, but you still i. mean you just heard Reverend Jackson's key Congressman Lewis Ambassador Young? We're committed to push for voting rights. Even this fall right right? They're still on the front lines, congressman. Claburn is nearly eighty years old still on the frontlines that that just is really. Really so remarkable? Well if you can just hang on for another few minutes, Erin I now want to turn to Bernard, Lafayette Civil Rights Activists. And was obviously a student activist in many campaigns in the nineteen sixties staff member at the student. Nonviolent Coordinating Committee Program Director Martin Luther King Junior. Southern Christian leadership conference. He was a dormitory meet with with John, Lewis, and also author of several books, including in peace and freedom. My journey in Selma. Bernard Lafayette Welcome to the program. I'd you. Of all Mr Lafayette I just wonder if you could just tell a quick story about. When you first met John Lewis I believe it was at at college in in in Nashville in shared that room with him. What kind of things did you talk about? What was that that like sharing that space with him? Well, one of the things that we always talked about was the ratio situation. And the segregation. And the the impact on the minds of the people. because what we many times think about. As what happens to black people because of the same recreation and discrimination. But we don't think about what happens to the white. People? Particularly, the young people coming up. And I think that that was one of the most important things that happened. Is we. Recognize that. We needed to have white young people involved. In the in the in the movement and we made sure that happened that made special efforts. Well I think I believe i. read that that that you had you had previously said that it was. It was John Lewis who got you to come to the seminars on nonviolent protests. That Reverend Lawson was having at the time. Is that right? Bernard Lafayette he's still there. We're going to try and get him back on the line here. Aaron Hanes react to to what? Mr Lafayette just said there about the belief early on in the importance of sort of. Showing White Americans the effect that segregation was having on them absolutely and also the importance of that multiracial coalition which I think you're seeing today. In this national moment of reckoning and many of the folks that are on the frontlines, today took the lessons of folks. Young folks like Bernard Lafayette like. Congressman Lewis like C T Vivian. You know these these. The the the these these folks started Diane Nash Right that these folks started so young they left a blueprint behind for for the young people that we see confronting racism today, and you think about the the white folks who joined with so many of them are for freedom summer right. Down into into the deep South and try to to confront systemic racism together. Know. It does take. White Americans of conscience. To also be part of this movement, and really you know that. Helps to turn the tide and tip. The scale really did to get. The kind of racial progress that black folks have been raised have been raising the alarm about systemic racism for. You. For the entirety of the time that we have been in this country, right but it, but it really takes. A multi-racial coalition to get on board to really confront the. That statistic racism in the big struck throw away that must be confronted for things to be different. For. Those communities right. Well absolutely, and hopefully think we have Mister Lafayette back on the line. Can you hear me? Okay. Apologize Nickel difficult. Yes, I can. I apologize for the technical difficulties. We've been having today Mr Lafayette, but I wonder if I could ask you a question about the day or the moment in the civil rights movement in the sixties. That Congressman Lewis himself said that he thought it was. His most important moment then that's of course the march from Selma to Montgomery. For Voting? Rights and That day when he was on the Edmund Pettus bridge with other activists, and they were literally beaten back by police I. Wonder if you could just tell us about your experience of that day. I was very much involved in the Selma March okay yes, or by this time I was in Chicago. Okay, but I've started much earlier in in in Selma Alabama. But. What is very little known fact? Is that when you see. One of the photos. Of the group going into Montgomery Alabama. You see a black fellow. With the Tam on backwards. And he's holding the American flag. And Martin Luther King and Mrs King and Abernathy. Behind him? You'll see those pitcher in the museum. That picture of the museum in the museum doesn't say his name, but that foul name is Lamar McCoy. McCoy. Was Ahead of the vice lords gang in the west side of Chicago. I trained those gang members in Chicago. To be marshals on the Selma much. This was all very quiet because I wanted the gang members in Chicago to have a nonviolent experience and I wanted him have very specific low, so we started the movement in Chicago. They would have a role to play and they will marshalls. And, so therefore they will not go out and do gang stuff. So this was like boot camp. For the Chicago Gang. And also tell me more in the in the last minute that we have. If you could. What was it about John Lewis in his heart, and his soul, and his character that allowed him to work so tires tirelessly for so many decades until the end of his life. To continue to try to realize. Realize. The dream. John Lewis was committed as a child. When he experienced. Segregation in rural Alabama. And he realized that. That's the kind of life that you would have to live. And he rejected that, and that's why he took to Martin Luther team. Because of the Martin Luther King's movement there in Montgomery, Alabama, which is very not too far from Troy, because listen to Martin Luther King on the radio. So, we heritage his speeches and that kind of thing and he was a minister. In John Lewis was interested in the ministry, so he began to look at what kind of ministry he was going to have in his life. That's why John Didn't get involved in pastoring churches and not like that because you've found that. This was the most important thing that he could contribute I. was his roommate have the American Baptist College? And he's the one that persuaded me to go to nonviolent classes. The Jim Lawson was taken the workshop. And so Wanted to make a difference in these things and he saw a to do it, and that was through the nonviolent approach. And Confrontation. So I was with him in Nashville and I was with him. You know and many movements along the way the freedom rides. And I'd be segregated the buses before nine, hundred, sixty, one and the freedom riders. In. Well. You know what I hear that phone line getting shaky against some afraid I'm just going to have to to wrap up with that Bernard Lafayette Civil Rights leader who was John Lewis's called roommate in the nineteen sixties as you just heard desegregated, the Greyhound lines in Nashville, author of many books on civil rights, including in peace and freedom, my journey in Selma Mr Lafayette. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you? and. Aaron Hanes editor at large for the nineteenth. Thank you so much for joining us today to remember Congressman Lewis. Thank. You Magnum. And folks, we want to wrap up this hour by hearing the congressman himself again, and we want to turn back to the final words from Lewis's speech at the march on Washington in nineteen, sixty three remember. He was twenty three years three years old. Then it put him on the national stage a place he never left, and at the heart of the question of what kind of nation this country truly wishes. To be. Let's listen I'm chalker body. This is on point. Spirit of law wouldn't. That we have today. Our demand, our determination and our numbers. We just spent a gated. Pieces. Of and democracy we must wake up. Wake Up. We cannot stop. We will not allow invasion.
"A Michael ISIKOFF. Of correspondent for Yahoo News and I'm Dan Kleinman, editor in chief of Yahoo, News, and a quick reminder that you can follow us at skulduggery Pod, and by the way. If you've got any questions, thoughts ideas, you wanNA share, tweet right out us now. Let's get on with the show. This morning families here are grieving and pray for the day. It is unfathomable that somebody in today's society would walk into a church. When people are having a prayer meeting. And take their lives I. do believe this was a hate crime. May. Z.. Really. Does. Five years ago this week on the evening of June seventeenth two thousand fifteen. A white supremacist named dylann roof walked into a Bible study class in the basement of the Emanuel Ame church in Charleston South Carolina and while shouting, racial epithets opened fire with a Glock pistol killing nine. One of the most horrific acts of racial violence in modern memory and prompted that remarkable moment when President Barack Obama sought to heal the wounds by singing, amazing grace at a memorial service for those who had died. Nobody remembers the pain and horror of the Charleston Church shooting more than south. Carolina Congressman James Kleiber who had fought for civil rights in his State since childhood. But over the past two weeks, Clyburn has had to grapple with the legacy of the country's racist pass once again amid the protests over police carrying African Americans. We'll talk to him about what needs to be done now and what shouldn't be done? And we'll talk to psychoanalysts who contributed to a new book about President. Trump's long history of narcissists behavior on this episode of skulduggery. Because people have gotta know whether or not their president's. While I'm not a crook. I told the American people. I did not trade arms for hostile. My heart to my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not I did not have sexual relations with that woman. There will be no lies. We will honor the American people with the truth and nothing else. I'm Michael Gough chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo News and I'm Dan Kleinman editor in chief of Yahoo News I have to say I had completely forgotten until when we were booking this interview James Clyburn staff reminded us that this is the fifth anniversary of that Charleston massacre, and in one sense, it seems so long ago like some sort of abberant action from the country's tortured past, but as we've seen over the last two weeks with the protests and the killing of African Americans by police departments, it is still very much with us, and that's the story of our tragic history with racism in this country that. Even as we see signs of progress, sometimes, they're just signs, and they don't actually reflect the sort of deep seated issues that we have been dealing with for hundreds of years in this country, and so at moments like this, which kind of forced the country to confront, it's tragic racial past you begin to examine these kinds of episodes and another one that is very much in the news right now and that you know. I think probably a lot of Americans are learning about. About for the first time where those terrible riots race riots in Tulsa, Oklahoma Ninety nine years ago when mobs of white people marauding through the streets, of Greenwood Tulsa the most affluent black neighborhood in the country terrorized and murdered up to three hundred people left fifteen thousand people homeless. Of course, this is the site of the first big rally that Donald Trump will be giving since covid. He had to move it from June nineteenth under pressure because that was June teeth the. The day that blacks in this country commemorate the end of slavery, but I guess the silver lining is that a Lotta people are learning about it. You know look the Tulsa. Massacre is so fascinating because you know look I grew up in the sixties I remember the riots in major American cities and Harlem Watts and Detroit and I don't remember learning about the Tulsa riots by whites killing African Americans in Oklahoma that was just not part of the American history books that I. I read or was taught in school. It's a reminder that our history changes constantly, and what we what we learned. Today is a very often what we forgotten many years ago. Clyburn look nobody's got greater moral standing to talk about these issues then James Clyburn You know the longest serving highest ranking African. American in Congress guy who fought for civil rights was arrested. I think at the age of twelve participating in sit ins in South Carolina and really interesting because. while. He's clearly as we'll discover clearly angry about what's happened with the killing of African Americans by police. He's also a measured voice and he knows what happens when the rhetoric gets too heated, and the actions go too far and hearing his kind of measured response is I think illuminating? He's also a hard, nosed Paul and a deeply pragmatic politician, and I think he understands that as inspiring as these protests are, and protests are clearly an important dimension of democracy that you also have to harness that energy and apply it to other forms of Democratic Action, including passing legislation and getting new policies. Put in place that. Reflect the kinds of changes that need to be made, and that is what he's focus on. That takes getting more Democrats elected and he's. Laser focused on that issue right? And he and he's worried about how some of the rhetoric and we'll talk to him about this about defunding. The police could be counterproductive for that goal. I think it's also worth pointing out that this is also the fifth anniversary, or this month is the fifth anniversary of the Supreme Court's historic same sex marriage decision, which seemed so momentous at the time it's it's kind of bizarre that it took place that both the Emanuel Ame Church killings and that Supreme Court decision took place the very same month and this month. We have the protests over. Over the police killings, and we just had another historic, totally unexpected supreme court decision about transgender and gay rights. Yeah, well, this is a transformational landmark decision. It is the first time that the United States Supreme Court has extended real civil rights protections under title, seven of the nine hundred sixty four civil rights act to gays and transgender people. People don't a lot of people don't realize that in I don't know twenty six or twenty seven states in the country you can be. You can still be fired for being gay or being a transgender person, well no more and people who. Who are cynical about our institutions and don't think that the laws can really be changed and. This is an example of of how nine people who wear black robes can make a really big difference in this particular case six. To three decision, but what's really notable surprising to use your word was that two of the most conservative justices on the court chief justice Roberts and Neil Gorsuch who replaced Justice Scalia and was regarded by conservative activists out there as a sure bet on these kinds of issues voted with the majority here so voted. Gorsuch wrote the Indiana and wrote the opinion, and I think it's worth noting that. He clerked for justice. Kennedy who in the past was the swing justice, but a conservative who also wrote all of the most consequential gay rights decisions including the gay marriage decision, so he's following in the footsteps of His of his mentor. They are I. Think the last thing I want to say about this. Is that at times of great crisis? In this country you put spotlights on the continuing issues that we are dealing with in terms of discrimination, it is probably worth remembering that progress and setbacks kind of move on parallel paths. Remind reminds us of that Martin Luther. King quote that. The arc of the moral universe is long, but it ultimately bends toward justice, and so for people who are depressed right now about the state of our country every once in a while, it's nice to see that there are some silver linings here and there well with that cosmic thought Let's go to our gas, too. I think has. Equally, if not greater cosmic thoughts about where we are congressman, James Clyburn, so let's get to it. Congressman James. Clyburn welcome back to skulduggery. Thanks. So it was five years ago this week. That the. Horrific! At Emmanuel Ame Church in Charleston South Carolina took place. As you look back at that moment right now when we when the country is facing A. Racial reckoning. What are your thoughts? Well I've given a lot of thought to that. the seventeenth of June. Masa, the fifth anniversary of riffing Yvette and it was the response to that event two fronts. That I think. Instructs us. About this five year anniversary number one. The response to the police two days after that shooting. This twenty one year old self professed white supremacists. Who went into that search invaded a Bible study. Killed Nine people went up to North Carolina and was arrested. When he was arrested. All the videotapes show that several policemen. Approaches Automobile. And when they did your mobile stopped. As they arrested him though they had their guns drawn at the beginning, they re hosted their guns. And then took him out of the car in various civil way. Even he was thirsty. Give him water. You said it was hungry and it took him to a Burger King. And took him before taking him back to Charleston. Face Justice. That's the first instruction on how to conduct an arrests. The second of Instruction I. Think came after. The at the hearing when those family members. Look at? This guy who just murdered their family and friends. and. They say they gave him. That to me started a reexamination. Of what this country is. And what this country could be. I really believe those family members in their reaction and the reactions there in tossing. Started this reexamination. That allowed this response today I was there in the nineteen sixties John Lewis I'm net. In October nineteen sixty. I remember what it was like to have. A movement develop around young people. Young and whole, black and white. Jews gentile. Catholics and Protestants will gather. But we lost that movement. We lost that movie because it got hijacked, it got hijacked back slogan. Burn Baby Burn. Became the headline. Hijack in the movement. We lost. This time. I hope it be different. which is one of the reasons I've been speaking very strongly against the headlines, seekers and the slogan there. That's been taking place in this cat in in. One of those slogans that we will get into in this conversation has to do with policing and defunding the police, but we'll get to that, but I wanted to pick up on on what you were saying before. You're seventy nine years old. You grew up in the Jim Crow South as you pointed out. You are a young activist. During the civil rights era, you launched your political career after being involved in that Charleston hospital strike, which was I think one of the last campaigns and civil rights campaigns in South Carolina of that era. And so I guess what I want to know is right now after the killing of George Floyd and these wide scale protests that erupted in its wake. How do you assess the state of race relations in America? Right now? I guess the question really is notwithstanding the the stubborn persistence of systemic racism in our society in our institutions in your view is the trajectory still toward progress and freedom and harmony or have these brutal police killings laid bare that maybe a myth. How do you feel about where we are today? I think that this whole notion of. Institutionalized racism. Something that we've never really had an honest examination of. I often think. About a woman down in Charleston Rowena Tobias. To me when I was very young in my twenties, she invited me to her home one day. She said to me that she thought. That she saw in things out saying and doing. It's unreal future for the issue of race. Yes, which is at? This is the reason we can't get this issue. Resolve because people talk about it. She talked about tossed since early beginning. How was the economic hub on the East Coast? Then anytime, the question of race came up. People stop talking. And she said to me on that day. I would hope that you go through your career. Please don't stop talking. This issue has to be addressed. And until we do, we will not get dissolved and I think that's what's going to happen. We have eight nor this. We have a pretend that didn't exist. All of a sudden now people watching George, a floyd being lynched as they watch the television sets in their decided. It's time to start talking. They were taken instructions from those postals reacting to the Emmanuel. And, they're saying we just cannot ignore this in a longer and so I think that this time it's a bit different. And it's kind of interesting because this week, we also celebrating June teeth. And that isn't a classic example of what it is not to communicate. June t started in eighteen, sixty, five, two, and a half years after slavery had been declared over. Because it did not get communicated to those postal down in Galveston Texas. It was not the Joe Grainger got their two and a half years later to tell them. That they were now free, that's what communication is all about. The failure to communicate kept them in the slavery two and a half years longer than that the failing to communicate today is what's keeping us from solving this prop congressman you said before that the civil rights movement that you were part of in the nineteen sixty s got hijacked by people shouting slogans like. Like Burn Baby Burn, and you expressed concern that the same kind of hijacking could be taking place right now with the protests over the police killing of African Americans and I. Think you have spoken out against the slogan that many of the protesters are shouting de-fund the police. Do you see defend the police? As the equivalent of burn baby burn in the nineteen sixties. This familiar. Certain anytime you give the other side cover to deny or reject then I. Don't think you're doing a good service. You know if be mean restructure. The police say restructure. If we men deconstruct. Policing. Say deconstruct. That is my problem here. I have a problem with people who tell me what they mean when they say the fundamentally I believe in the meaning. The problem is. If you allow the soundbite lead. Then you'RE GONNA lose the argument. Explain what you mean when you say you believe in an in the meaning, but not the soundbite. Everybody I've talked. She said what they will tell you. This is what I mean by that I mean. The. Which? Is exactly what I believe ought to be done. So, but you is almost like saying. Burn baby burn means get off the back of the bus integrate. Kaunda's the start of new. Does that mean that that's what we were trying to do. They're trying to de. Segregate Transportation de Segregate product accommodations open up schools the nineteen fifty four supreme. Court decision still not been here too, and we're trying to get integrated. So how does that mean? How does burn baby burn? Contribute to that it doesn't. Do, you think that if Democrats were take up. That slogan defunding police that that would lead to electoral routes that it's essentially handing Donald Trump and the Republicans are kind of political battering-ram to go against the Democrats now. We know that Biden has said he doesn't support that, but in terms of congressional races for example Jim Klabin, then support that either and I worked on congressional races, and that's one reason I'm speaking out. Joe sent the Anatole all of us years ago that we should learn the lessons of history. Bound to repeat them that has it lessen the history that I have learned and I don't want to repeat it and I'm standing by and watching the body else. Check us back there, so please explain the distinctions in your mind. You don't support the slogan. Defend the police, but you do support changes in the way. Policing is taking place in this country. Just distinguish for us what you do, support and what you don't support number one I'll just invite you to look at the justice in policing act everything that I suppose in that act. De Militarized Police. Get rid of this. Whatever we call this immunity eight. That police officer got. You can shoot a seven month old seven month, pregnant woman and the immunized. You can put the death nine bullets into a committed person. Arm can be immunized. You can keep your knee on the net. Over a black person for eight minutes forty six seconds on the law. You've got qualified candidate. That's what I mean. Get Rid of qualified ended demilitarize, take these military equipment and ammunition out of the hands of local police. Get rid of Kohl's. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about, so you're talking about systemic reform. There are critics out there. Who will say that the police departments as currently constituted are essentially irredeemable that they have to be kind of race to the ground and rebuilt that there is something rotten to the core in policing and in police cultures. Do you not accept that absolutely except that I agree with that? Argument the problem is. Often what the solution is. And solution to me is not the funded is restructuring. Everybody keeps telling me about Camden New Jersey. What did they do in Camden? New Jersey they got rid of the police department, but the broad in the county to take over policing in default police in right. They needed a police department. So that's all I'm saying I agree with that. And you have watched. The protests unfold over the last couple of weeks. Mostly peaceful, but not entirely in some cases there's been looting in some cases. There's been rioting. Concerned, are you about the protests that have gotten out of hand and are enough people on your side speaking up and speaking out against? The violence and the looting well, that's exactly what happened. This family. George Fluids family spoke up and spoke out against the looting. Saying that's not how they want their brother their father. Uncle to be remembered. They spoke out against. I spoke out against many of us spoke out against it, and that's all I'm saying now we're not going on those people who are up to no good people who protest their protests with a preference people who come in their motive, cocktails and bread now the building. What's their purpose? People's looting? What's the purpose? The people who are protesting that's not them I say over and over again. If you play their game, they win and that's what they are doing. The people who participated in violence. That's their game. The auto values are so in Washington. DC lose the president sending his folks out. There declared out a path. For him to stage a photo op police on horseback. But tear gas. Some other chemical agents that are now admitting that they use the fact it matters. That was violent action. Always say violence is the unjust use of force. Power. That, was valid the use of Powell but congressman. Clyburn there seems to be at least some generational divide in this country over these issues and you saw on social media, for example, a lot of people quoting Dr King and I think one of his last speeches, talking about rioting, being the voice of the unheard and using that as a kind of a justification because the anger that's being expressed by people who do riot or who do burn down. Buildings is a kind of desperation, because their situation is so bad, you don't. What do you think of that Martin Luther? King quote and how it's been used and that argument? Well people could use quotes thing. They went out of people used to buy, but the justify slavery. Than doing, but did use your walk. thinking the fact of the matter is I would also put Dr Chain in his letter from Birmingham jail. When he said that he was coming to the conclusion that the people of ill will in our society was making much better use of time than the people of goodwill, and so all I would say is for to take a look at Dr King as a whole. He wasn't justified righted. He was explaining it. As soon as the big difference in explaining what people do then to justify what they do, so king never justified that. What did they say about king calling for nonviolence? John Lewis intensified is internalized with him I never internalized not valid I'm not a violent person, but I'm sitting in on the nonviolent person congressman, the president today and signing an executive order designed to encourage local police departments to adopt best practices and doing so through incentives for grant money. Is this an adequate response to the protests? In your view? The constitution encourages legislation is what artists? So that's why I said two days ago, and I'll say it again. I don't care what the president met with executive order. If he signs an executive order, he can resend. We need to do legislation. The House the Senate and then he needs to sign that legislation if he is really serious about this. Then encourage Mitch McConnell to tick off the justice. Policing Act got two hundred and twenty sponsors in the house. About thirty, five or forty in the Senate telling him. Come out support that Mitch McConnell put it on the floor. And then he will sign it. That's when I know. He's serious nothing. To encourage the Bible encourages everyday. Congressman President Trump is set to have a physical rally in Tulsa on Saturday Tulsa, being the site of the worst incident of. Violence in this country and our tragic tragic episode in our history is at a slap at the face of black Americans. Do you think he should be holding a rally there? Well, that explains one more incident. To explain what the answer is to his question. What do you have to lose? When they asked that question turned out to be very significant. Turn of events, thirty percent of African American males went out and voted for him based upon that question. The fact of the matter is he's now showing us every day whether you've got to lose going to toss. Is An indication of what to got to lose your dignity and your respect. And I would hope that those thirteen percent of Americans that voted for him, and those who are out there supporting them now I would hope they will re gather themselves take back their dignity, demand respect and sent to this man who looks in the camera and calls a black woman at dog. And think about whether you want. What are they were more him about the women in their lives Congressman We still have a covid crisis in this country including in your state in South Carolina where there have been some increases in the number of cases. A lot of people saw the protests taking place the lack of social distancing people congregating together, and said that is going to cause increases in the number of sick people and potentially lead to more deaths. Are you concerned that the protests have undermined the kind of restrictions? We need to keep in place while the Cova. Crisis is still with us. Absolutely. Not The protests got nothing to do with that. The problem you've got is leadership at the national level. This president has left this country up to having fifty uncoordinated responses to covid nineteen, so that to me is what the problem is. If this president would give leadership to this issue, and not declared that I take no responsibility and not live up to each of the governments. They won't have won. National call knitted effort if he were to lead on this issue. I think people were re would follow so what we see taking place year. Nothing has been coordinated no leadership and that's the problem congressman. We can't finish this interview without asking you about the vice presidential search. I'm sure you're tired of hearing these questions, but you obviously are a have been influential adviser to Vice President Biden. You have said publicly that. He needed to pick a woman. He did you've. You've said that picking a an African American woman, or a woman of color is not a must, but is a plus, and I wonder for you personally. Would it be a preference off? said that I'm the father of three F- American women nothing would make me more proud than the. Woman on this ticket. Yes, so, which is your candidate well? The vice president will know if I ever decide to share. You haven't today with him. No I have not I've said well. You can share it with us and we'll relate out. Now so. I have not come down to one person yet. Okay? Several women out there all of whom are not African, American that I've talked about that I. Think would be great run inmates, and would make great presidents, but I think we gotta do the vetting gotTa. Do the polling Andy instructed by that? And then this president vice-president must let his heart and head take a look well. He called it some petticoat. I call it. Heart just ask about one of them. WHO started to get a lot of buzz lately and that is Susan Rice the former national security adviser. Who is Simpatico with Vice President Biden? Who has governing experience and clearly has national security experience, but she doesn't have any electoral experience. Do you think that's an issue at all? It. People who raise that as an issue I? Don't know if that's an issue that you would call disqualified. If I felt that I never would have mentioned her name I think if you go back, you'll find the first time. I ever expressed in the thing on the subject Her name was included in the group of name to the offered a one last political question for you. There's a Senate race in South Carolina this year with Senator Lindsey Graham up for reelection, and some recent polling suggests that this is going to be a lot tighter than anybody expected. What's your sense right now of whether the you're Democratic candidate has a chance of defeating. Graham yes, a good chance! This is James Harrison I believe Jamie Harrison. Known since he was an eleventh grader, he came into my life when he was grade high school student he has exactly what it takes to be a great Yazoo Senator and I. Do believe that he's GonNa surprised a lot of people in the state, and in this nation the morning of November fourth well, we will see if you're pragnell stations bear out, but we always welcome you on skulduggery, and we hope to keep talking as the campaign continues. Real. Pleasure to have you thank you. congressman absolutely. It's no secret that our world has been interrupted. World interrupted is a daily podcast telling stories of coronavirus and its impact on the economy. We want to cover the issues in the macro global economics, the stock market and our political climate will also cover the micro stories. Maybe the ones you don't hear much about in the news or the media. We hope you'll listen and be a part of the journey. Subscribe Today on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We, now have with US Michael Maccabi and Judith Logan. Michael is one of the world's experts on narcissism and leadership He's the author of fifteen books including one called narcissistic leaders who succeeds in who fails and he does have the distinction of he may be one of the only academics, if not the only academic who's been approvingly cited by Donald Trump himself Michael, welcome to skulduggery. Trump cited man the bub. INC like a million air saying Oh, I had accurately described him as a productive narcissists. Okay well, we will discuss that in detail we have thus dr do to logo a practicing psychotherapist for the past fifty years, and also a and I was struck by this judith, a captain and teacher in the Palm Beach County civil. Air Patrol which makes me wonder if you have your own connection to Donald Trump. No I do not. Think. Michael is the editor and Judith is a contributor to a new book, psychoanalytic and historical perspectives on the leadership of Donald Trump. Narcissism and marketing in age of anxiety and distrust so Michael, let me start with you because you've written and studied. Narcissism among public leaders were all leaders, and in this book you explore Donald Trump's narcissism. I thought it was interesting that you conclude that he does not suffer from narcissistic personality disorder. Explain how why you reached that conclusion. First of all. A distinction between diagnosing someone. And understanding and many. Mental health professionals been writing about now. Trump is having a nurse assistant personality disorder, but that would assume he's suffering that he is out of reality. In fact, he's not suffering may be suffering more from him that he is not in unreality. He doesn't. He doesn't have the illusion east president of the United States. Furthermore was most people who diagnosed miss his looking at normal personality types. Now narcissistic personalities can be a normal time. It kind of Carson who is? Very strong need. Change things who has very little conscience lot of winner a and some of these people could be Productive Jab. Thanks where they can make Steve jobs making me. Monks kind of person that. Trump compares himself to, but he's not at all like people walk. He has not essentially versus. The personality is essentially a marketing personality. This is the kind of person who's whole sense of identity depends on whether significant others affirm as being in court me sees himself as a commodity. And he he has in a horrible feeling if he's not A. He's not felt to be a winner, so he'll do everything possible to create this kind of role in the mind. He treats everyone else like a commodity also had. People are goods on the basis. How successful they are are not now has narcissism his innocence, a defense against this acting. This lack of of rail authentic identity, so he creates this grandiose data this kind of narcissistic identity. He constantly needs others ferment. Basil's need other people to affirm the fact successful so to understand trump in a way which has not been done, we have to understand his personality also particularly philosophy, which is one in which the only thing that counts what I. It's been a winner. Otherwise you're you're nothing we have. Also in a context of what's capable. Many people felt abandoned. Felt. In terms of. Chefs in culture and the economy. We are saying today really. A cultural art between on the populists and the progressives and trump has ability Israel. His positive elements is the ability to market to understand how. Information Technology and all this relational technology in such a way to appeal to this base together. What they want Michael, I was GonNa say I was struck in your essay for this book, the excerpt from trump's think like a billionaire. The book he wrote and I use air quotes when I say the word wrote in two thousand and four where he cites you and he says Michael Maccabi Cycle analyst and consultant believes billionaires like Jeff bezos Steve Jobs in Ted Turner a successful in part, because they are narcissist who devote their talent. Talent with unrelenting focus to achieve their dreams, even it's even if it sometimes at the expense of those around them. Then he talks about your book. Any says a narcissist does not here the naysayers, and that one sentence from trump's own book again in air quotes really leaped out at me because not hearing, the naysayers may be useful if you're trying to start a business, but if you're running a government and running foreign policy and trying to. Govern the country. It seems to me, not hearing naysayers hearing people who raise questions about the policy you might be pursuing is a really bad thing. Also. Many people don't know how much trump was into. Norman Vincent. Pl who wrote the power positive, thanking who said really the same thing you have to exaggerate your positives. No listen to the negatives. Turn everything into a positive so really a in effect, Michael What crump dead. was, saying. You know I have to make myself. A narcissist is excess Michael Judith. We're going to bring you in in just a second but I just want to follow up if trump is not a kind of like clinically speaking. A narcissist or you know in the sort of classic narcissist that we think of what accounts. What do you think accounts for that? Seemingly pathological need for adulation, an affirmation, and in terms of his life story, his relationship with his father, for example who famously told his kids that you're either killers are losers. What in in his? Personnel, Eric, from I described, it's. The kind of person. WHO HAS Self esteem is not based on any inner qualities you know most of us have our Self Esteem Pacer ability to love to help others to be. Effective on. His self esteem as totally based on what others ranch where he has placed in the work of the. Importance and that really that makes somebody G- really desperate and deep sense to constantly get affirmation. That's why he demands that he has to go out and give a talk to is followers, even though it's dangerous right now. He needs that reinforcement and his policies are to understand policy to understand that you have to understand. He really is focusing on this group, which gives them a sense of southwestern judith. You've written an. For this book called gas lighting and beyond. Tell us what you mean by gas lighting. Guess Lighting is the systematic manipulation of someone else's reality with the unconscious or unwitting cooperation of the victim, so that the guest later insists on one version of reality that's true and the gaslight victim begins to believe it when in fact, it isn't true. and. The movie and the play. What's the movie? Tell us about her. And why you chose that? First of all. There's the play nine hundred thirty, eight by Patrick, Hamilton then there's a one thousand nine hundred forty British movie then. There's the Oscar winning nineteen forty four movie with Charles, Boyer a Ingrid, Bergman and Joseph Kat and that's the famous movie nineteen forty four. Charles Boyer A is a psychopath and he makes Paul. His wife believe she's going crazy. By dimming the gaslight and does of cotton comes in as the detective in saves the day, and so just picking up on the Joseph. cotten character as I understand it and I saw this wonderful movie I saw it a long time ago, but I certainly didn't have the insight that you had into this phenomenon of gas lighting, but Joseph cotten the investigator and he's investigating Charles. Boyer character whose I Guess Murdered Ingrid Bergman her character's aunt and is also trying to cheat her out of her jewelry. He comes in and he validates Ingrid. Ingrid Bergman's view of reality, and I want to get to trump here I. think you say your essay that in some ways in the trump scenario trump would be Charles Boyer and are the American People Ingrid Bergman in other words, we being being gas, lighted by and I. Think you may say that. Joseph cotten could be Bob Muller the person who stands up for facts. Yes, you're correct. I wanted to put out there. I'm the psychoanalyst so I take a psychoanalytic perspective, so one of the things that's very relevant to me, are the character traits and the character patterns and the Early Childhood where his mother was very sick. When he was two years old and. Almost died, and so he was on his own in many ways with an abuse of harsh father, he was mentored by Roy Cohen in later years, but in the early years it's reported that he spent a lot of time with his father with the Mafia and with organized crime people, and when he was in Atlantic, city, it was I lift down there. It was known that he was involved with the Mafia and organized crime, so he does have connections to organized crime, which would speak to his sociopathic traits I'm not calling him associate, Pathak, personality, disorder, or a psychopathic now, Judah. Do have to break in here because I'm one of many reporters who's looked into this and there are certainly connections that trump has had over the years with various figures who were close to the Mafia. There was one I wrote about who was actually a a deputy of John Gotti, who was a frequent companion of trump and trump, actually even one sport a horse race from him, but we should. Should say he has never been charged with any criminal wrongdoing. Relating to any mafia figures, he's never been mentioned in any indictments of Mafia figures, so we do have to be a little careful when we talk about exactly what those connections are. There were associations, but that does not necessarily make him. A May made man of the mob or anything close to it. Thank you, that's correction. You're wrecked, but. But let's get back to this concept of gas lighting and this idea that donald trump is gas lighting the American people. How do you see that he does it by saying? Reality is reality, and he operates at what I would call the borderline level of ego functioning in other words. You're damned if you do damned if you don't so, he put something out there then he changes his mind so. So you can infer whatever you want. Whatever you want to ensure you in fire, but is a sense in which because he does this with impunity. He says whatever he wants to say whether it is true, true or not, which we are not accustomed to our president's doing that quite as baldly, and as often that it kind of knocks our confidence in a way. It knocks us off our heels. Knock some people off their heels, but it appeals to people who WanNa strongman and what to believe what he's saying. When it's positive, weren't offers hope in other words. The Corona virus will be gone by Mother's Day or Easter people wanted to. For? The coronavirus is a hoax. I know a number of people especially in the state of Florida. where I live who have believed it's a hoax until they get it so question for both of you starting with Michael Sort of hanging over a book like this is the specter of something known as the gold water rule, and that dates back to the one thousand, nine, hundred, sixty four presidential campaign between Barry. Goldwater Lyndon Johnson, in which a magazine editor queried psychiatrists around the country whether Barry, goldwater. Goldwater was psychologically fit to be president of the United, states and something like one thousand, one, hundred eighty nine opined that he was not fit, and that caused an uproar and the American Psychiatric Association then adopted a rule that said you may not diagnose somebody you have not personally examined or treated so Michael starting with you. Is this book violation of the Gold Water rule? No certainly not first of all. We're not diagnosing. What are you doing them? Chat what we're doing. Understand that. We're going to have to start with you know using. Understand psychological understanding, of personnel. which is very good. Very few. Ever taught anything about their talked to diagnose looking for elements of illness. I'm looking for total understanding of a personality within culture because I think we can't understand the personality leader outside context and culture, in which somebody could be a leader, one context, but not in another for example Winston Churchill. He was the indispensable leader in World War. Two rejected before and after the war before the war as a warmonger after four, because the people wonder to social government, but his traits are the same. You can't understand leader just by their traits. You have to understand this whole concept. Of the content of the interaction of the leader so I think. We have a chapter in there by auto convert one of the world's experts on on narcissistic disorder and he of course. He says I'M NOT GOING TO DIAGNOSE DONALD TRUMP because I haven't seen him, but he really he describes how trump copies some of the behavioral of Heaven which is similar to gas lighting of constantly repeating things over and over again that are untrue. That had been used responsible for this, and that trump says the demonstrators all the Anki fall. They're all these. People Begin to Belabor this is kind of behavior that needs to be understood as jody has understood in terms of gas lighting. This is not diagnostic due to thin your essay. With the cold water rule, it sounds like and when reading it, it reads like you're tempted to want to diagnose Donald Trump but aware of the goldwater rule that puts some brakes on you. Correct I really liked an interview. An article by pretty gorgeous on the past president of of the American where she got out the army manual for leadership and fitness for leadership, and compared Donald Trump and terms of the qualities for leadership and. I don't think he. He met any of 'em. So I think that's one way to get around it, but you're right. It's hard not to want to diagnose when you see all this stuff out there, but my training is I'm not supposed to diagnose unless I see somebody so i. You're right. It was difficult for you. Still. I think if you've read the essay in October before trump was elected, my african-american position said if Donald Trump is selected on leaving the country and I said me too. Meanwhile. We're both still here so and. He diagnosed him and he's not a psychiatrist or a psychiatrist psychoanalyst. By the way, a lot of people seem to be wanting to diagnose donald trump physically at the moment after watching the West Point appearance where he seemed at one point to struggle to drink a glass of water, you needed two hands and also to walk down the ramp from the West Point speech. I don't know if either of you have any thoughts on that. Yeah, well, a number of physicians, not just neurologist think there may be at frontal. Frontal, temporal dementia or organic changes because the changes vocabulary syntax in the last ten twenty years this kind of cognitive decline that people talk about. Does it seem accelerated him, or is it the kind of thing that you that you often see with people as they move into their seventies for example, or is there something else potentially going on? We do see it because I. I certainly see it all around me and my peers. I an impatient, but you see it, so it's common defies being put in a box. Let me say something here I. Don't see anything wrong with diagnosing. Traitor are clearly diagnosed. The problem I see it was so many people would trump is there? It's a bad diagnosis. They personality is order doesn't take in all the elements. Like checking off a couple of traits, some of what you can find many people who are just very egomaniacal. Just follow themselves etcetera etcetera. What we're trying to say in this book is we have a better understanding of trump back in the nineteen seventies. When I was in psychoanalytic training, my training was different from my husband. WHO's a physician psychoanalyst and I was trained not to use diagnosis, I was in a medical setting. So of course I learned how to do psychiatric diagnosis, but the analytic training was to understand the person and to not use psychiatric diagnosis because DSM's change every ten years back in that day. It was the SNP. Than? Three, and then it was four and five, and it's changed, and it's going to change again so using psychiatric diagnosis. I think doses in an away because it. Like Michael says, it misses a lot of important things in understanding the person I've got one last question, which is how trump compares to previous leaders that we've had in this country, who may have exhibited some psychological issues I think of Richard Nixon who publicly. You didn't see it very much, but when we then listen to the tapes that came out years later you saw. Saw The brooding paranoia. All sorts of things that Nixon was largely able keep in check publicly, and so I wonder. Does that say something different about Donald Trump that he exposes himself in the way he does, or is it about our culture that we just start with twitter and social media just out there more. What does that tell you Richard? Nixon was authentic narcissists. A whole pattern that I have seen a narcissistic presidents of having a way, taller donkey notch identify was in a very strong mother. You see it in Ronald Reagan. You say don't consider him number early, authentic or absent. Even see it, Obama. That's not the way that trump is very different, and and Nixon was need productive narcissist. Real Vision Nixon was a visionary. Wants to China had the whole idea of creating Tom or the Russians. And with trying as and the also in many ways was progress in terms of health and safety hurting environment. He's so much better terms of any kind of policy in any kind of taking the problem of his paranoia in his narcissism did self, and he really shot himself so I would not compare if you feel what somebody who's more like trump look at bars Johnson in the UK. He's also marketing personality, so it's not just the hair. All right well, listen Michael and Judith. I WANNA! Thank you for your insights. The book is psychoanalytic and historical perspectives on the leadership of Donald Trump Narcissism and marketing in an age of anxiety and distrust Michael Judith. Thanks for joining us. Thanks to South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn psychoanalyst's Michael Maccabi and Judith look joining us on skulduggery. Forget to subscribe to skullduggery on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts and tell us what you think. Libra review sure to follow us on social media at skulduggery pot. Talk to you soon.
Trump's Environmental Rollbacks During COVID-19; Frederick Douglass Collection
"From NPR and Wbz Robin Young I'm Jeremy Hobson is here now lots going on in Washington today from the Attorney General's testimony before a house committee to the negotiations over the pandemic relief bill, the Republican proposal unveiled yesterday would cost a trillion dollars and would reduce extra unemployment benefits and provide legal protections against covert related lawsuits for businesses. House Majority Whip James Clyburn Democrat of South Carolina joins us now. Congressman, welcome back and thanks for being here. Well let's start with unemployment. Republicans are proposing to drop the extra weekly payments from six hundred to two hundred dollars, then transitioning to states giving people seventy percent of what they were being paid before with some flexibility. Is that a deal breaker for Democrats? World should be The fact of the matter is while they're doing that. They are putting in this bill in new tax deduction for business meals. That to me demonstrates the difference in US and them. We are trying to take care of people who go into work everyday essential workers trying to keep the economy going trying to keep their families stabilize while we are putting in this bill in. Tax Deduction for businesses meals. That is an incredible. Demonstration of exactly who and what they are well, the Republicans have said that the democratic plan which is much more expensive than than their plan also has things that shouldn't be in a bill like this including student loan payments for borrowers money to support beginning farmers and ranchers. They're calling your plan a socialist manifesto. How do you respond to that? Number, ask the American people to take a look at their proposes versus hours, yes. We are seeking relief for student loan debt. Because we now know their student loan debt now exceeds its credit card debt, and these are the children of the families that we're trying to secure. and. It is a much better deal. It seems to me then this big giveaway. There given to defense contractors. We don't need in a new defense programs. What are we putting in all this money for F thirty? Five's for what that's only to give some contractors federal welfare. What, about the issue of funding for state and local governments, many of which are in very bad shape right now. The Democrats want to give a trillion dollars there. Republicans don't want to give any additional funding. How are you GonNa? Find compromise on that issue. I don't know how the refined compromise or maybe there should not be a compromise. It seems to me that for us to approve a plan that we know of rent. A lot of state governments, a lot of local governments pushed him into bankruptcy lane off. Scores of people who depend the plan these. Places or these entities they use for the low income that they have coming in and putting two billion dollars in here to construct a new FBI building. What is that all about accepted the new FBI building on the construct about two or three blocks from trump's hotel? This is mostly egregious. Stuff I ever seen, and I think that what we need to do going forward as a keep these before the American public, and they will begin to see exactly what it is. We're fighting against up here, but in the meantime some of this aid for people who are unemployed is gonNA. Run out within days what's going to happen? Is it possible that no bill gets passed to help the people who are struggling? This a possibility, but It seems to me. that. We going to cram down the American people throats. A BIG GIVEAWAY for business people get a meal. On their dime, that may be something we need to highlight. There could be a short term extension of benefits if there's no big green in the next several days. Do think so. I would suspect that having a short term agreement will be better than than not having anything at all, but having a long term agreement that does not take care of them and enhance this The fortunes of corporate business people that to me is a worse position to be in. Let me, just ask you about one other thing. that obviously is on the minds of everybody in Washington today, and that is the late congressman. John Lewis President Trump says he will not pay his respects to Louis at the capitol. What do you think about that well I think that demonstrates once again the smallness of this guy. John Lewis's life. it was. On their ticking away from him on the Edmund Pettus Bridge at a time, and only two percents of African Americans in Alabama were registered to vote. He was trying to get the vote for black people in Alabama, and was met by a mob. Police officers this president. Is demonstrating once again. With sending stormtroopers into Portland and other cities. He's doing the same thing today. The John Lewis fought against in Alabama and many of us did with John John Ivory snicked together. Your founding members of the student nonviolent Coordinating Committee and we did so because we want the right to vote. We wanted to get off the back of buses. We want to get rid of the confederacy. This guy is sending stormtroopers into town or city after city now, trying to re instate the confederacy. That is the contrast, so he's not showing up to give to John. Lewis is very understandable to me. John stood for everything. He does not stand for and against everything that he does stand for. That has democratic whip. James Clyburn of South Carolina Congressman. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for having me. On Capitol Hill Attorney General William Bar is being grilled by Democrats. Who accuse him of diverting federal resources to help the president get reelected by sending federal agents into Washington DC and other American cities to crack down on racial justice protesters bar is vociferously denying that we're going to have more on the hearings, but they're somewhat overshadowing another controversy over the president's stand on Covid nineteen last night, president trump. Trump retweeted video of Dr. saying falsely that masks and lockdowns aren't needed to stop the coronavirus pandemic that the drug trump has promoted, but scientists decry hydroxy. Chloroquine will cure covid nineteen, no need for anybody to get sick. The video was considered misinformation by social media sites like twitter, which removed the president's re tweets. Let's briefly bringing ABC Political Director. recline and rick yesterday and scripted remarks. The president said. We should wear masks whenever possible last night he re tweets, this nonsense and rate something like interesting narrative. Why would he do that? Forget trump versus voucher, trump versus trump. He consistently undercuts his own best instincts and the advice of people around him. Just days after he seemed to take a totally different tone with approach, these approach to coronavirus, bringing back the briefings, warning people that there's a long road ahead finally donning a mask on now the contradictory messaging is everywhere, and it does elevate. We've seen on the fringes of the right wing of suggesting the doctor. He's in league with the Democrats somehow to swing the election to. To make the make the president look bad a suggesting that there's a deep state cover up of potential cures here that everything's designed to make the president look bad. He likes to play with those forces, even while maintaining publicly that that he's following the advice of medical professionals, and it would appear to be undercutting the new narrative, which is that we have to take seriously. Well you mentioned, forget trump versus faculty, but we can, because he also re tweeted someone else last night saying that. Anthony Fauci a fraud. Who misled the public on ABC's good? Morning America. FAUCI was asked if he could continue to do his job. This is what I do. This is what I've been trained for my entire professional life and I'll continue to do it to charge even misleading the American public. I have not been misleading the American public under any circumstances. As if he should have to defend that, look, Rick This comes as the US. Some of the worst metrics in the world on covid nineteen states like Florida Texas Arizona. You know just pummeled by it. Polls show a majority of Americans believe in masks. Don't think the president is handling this well. Again is. It just doesn't make any sense to attack the man that that people think he should be tying himself to. We could look for political or policy motivations here and keep looking because this isn't the advice. The president's getting. This isn't what his fellow Republicans largely want him to to say or do. The president has said in the past that he wants to be a cheerleader. That's why he's been hyping address a chloroquine. I suppose that's why he might say that. The people like Dr Fauci or pessimists here, but reality is caught up with him and that's what stunning about this is that it seemed to be with. With the cancellation of his convention, a with his reversal on schools with his supportive masks, that president was acknowledging this reality to be had to get serious about this otherwise if we continue to spiral out of control for him to continue to undercut his own dressing on that, I think it's damaging to public health damaging to own political standing up. Perhaps it plays to a hardcore base that wants to believe in conspiracy theories, but I don't see it in any way shape or form a productive message. We also hearing today that the resident made up that story about throwing out the first pitch at. A Yankees game because he was so angry, the doctor foul, she threw out the first pitch at Washington nationals game. But you know about thirty seconds left here Rick. What is the plan until election day? I. It is to try to change the conversation Joe Biden and the only way that the president can succeed is if Cova gets better if there was an economic recovery, and if this becomes a choice, not a referendum. Declined, political record ABC. Thank you. One, of the most extraordinary people in American history is getting a new spotlight. You may have heard the words of Frederick. Douglass this past fourth of July, an escaped slave, he then very publicly an eloquently led the fight against slavery, traveling in some of the finest circles, captivating with his oratory. Here is James Earl Jones reading part of Frederick Douglass, what to the slave is the fourth of July delivered in eighteen, fifty, two called the most damning critique of American hypocrisy, ever prosperity and independence bequeathed by your father's is shared by you not by me. The sunlight that bought life and healing. Do you has brought stripes and death to me this Fourth of July? Is Yours. Not Mine. You may rejoice, I must warn. To drag a man in fetters. Into the Grand Illuminated Temple of Liberty. In Call Upon Him to join you in joyous anthems were inhuman mockery. And, sacrilegious irony. Too You mean citizens to mock me. By asking me to speak today. Now the most important collection of Frederick Douglass artifacts, including drafts of this speech and family scrapbooks of letters and photographs has been acquired by jails Bina key library and will be available to the public. We wanted to know more about the man who collected these things retired Georgia surgeon Walter O Evans. His Douglas scrapbooks now ill form the basis for historian David, Blights Pulitzer Prize winning biography, Frederick Douglass profit of freedom soon to be a netflix movie produced by Barack Michelle Obama's Production Company and Dr Walter Evans joins us by skype from Savannah Dr. Evans, welcome thank you I want. Want to hear a little about you if you don't mind I'm going. To do a synopsis here. Your Dad died way, too young a car accident. You were just nine. Your mom moved the family from the south to Connecticut. You became one of the few blacks in a school. There seemed to have an impact on you. You then followed siblings into the military, then went to Howard University pivoted into medicine full scholarships to medical schools, eventually chief of surgery at Hutzel Hospital in Detroit. When did you realize along the way there that you had also a love for collecting? That was introduced to art and literature when I was in the Navy I was transferred to the US naval, hospital and young lady and she wanted to go to the Philadelphia Museum of art I'd been in an art museum in my life and I went to the library to read about what we're going to be seeing there and she was duly impressed. which is what I wanted to do? I started reading more to impress her. But I had not a penny to spin until many years later when I started my practice, and immediately I started to collect not just art, but also books and manuscripts and letters sounds like some hosanna moments there the Philadelphia. Museum of art will do that to you. Bring US Frederick. Douglass escaped slave, who became an acclaimed orator, the most photograph man. In the eighteen hundreds, what did he mean to you? Is there something specific about Frederick Douglass or did you just happen to come across his papers? Both further Douglas as you mentioned, was an outsized character, one of the most important people in America to this day really, but I had been collecting a while when. I came across a great amount of these papers the first batch of them. And the dealer really wanted them to go to an institution, but institutions weren't interested at that point so I I assume normally. Most of these dealers who dealt an antiquarian, African American books and manuscripts and letters and things they would call me. This is in the nineteen eighties and I started collecting in the mid one, thousand nine hundred seventy S. But this time he didn't call me and when I got to catalog. Jump right on it because I thought somebody might see them, and they hadn't so I bought the first batch in about a year later, the second badge and a few other things along the way. You answer my question because I I'm thinking when I was first reading that somebody had passed these papers on sale. I'm thinking just now. You know and you have an answer there that that an institution didn't immediately on them as I'm sure, they're all you know. You know having meetings questioning that, but you knew what this was when you first are. A scrapbook that Frederick Douglass his family. Put together when you're first seeing these materials. What? What's that like for you well? Let me just tell you this. The first thing that came in boxes and boxes. Many many boxes and first thing I had to do is to have them restored. And then I had archival cases made many archival cases are at year right now, so that's the first thing I did, but the clippings in the in the scrapbooks there were voluminous. It wasn't until later. That one of the first scholars no defer scholar to really pay attention to this. David Blake hey started looking at this material and was overwhelmed now I. don't even know if he's read everything so yeah I mean I I was thrilled to have this, but I'm a collector now. Once you're satisfied with or certain item you go onto the next item and then again and again it's an addiction, so you have this. Then you go on, you continue to chase to the next item well. You have to get artifacts from the author. Zora Neale Hurston. You have to get the drawings of the twentieth century. African American political cartoonist Oliver Wendell Harrington. You're just as you say addicted, but this is your heritage. Your pass is an African American what. I tell tell us more about that. What are you trying to do in amassing it? What does it feel like to to find these things will? I would never separate these papers. I wanted to be together because. Even before David Blake came. I opened up my house to art historians I wanted to share this material because what Frederick Douglass was about. It's the same thing happening in America today. I mean the problems that he was trying to The struggle. It's still here. Most of this collection is about the latter third of his life, and that we did not know in the autobiographies and we did not know in the buyer. So I knew that I had something extremely important. Well, it's kind of it's all ascending. People were maybe trying to take him down or members of his family. He at one point backed a white candidate for an office because the black candidate had left the Republican Party. If I understand that right, which was very controversial, married a white woman later in life. That's correct. He had several enemies in. In the latter part of his life as you said that was John Mercer Langston who is Langston Hughes uncle I believe, but he did not back him for Congress. He back man because he felt his ideology was more in tune with his own, but there were so many I mean jealous. There was jealousy and then there was a family all came looking for him. Family and quote, Unquote family. What's that like to sit in your home? Surrounded by. It's almost like the ghost of these African Americans. You're surrounded by okay. I have several letters that were written by Tucson overture. Haitian who? was responsible for the Haitian revolution over the French. Yale about seven years seven eight years ago, acquired by. James Baldwin letters in at the time I don't know if this still holds true. But at the time it was the largest collection known of Jing Baldwin Letters. and. I have just about everything that. All the book signed first editions of. Zora neale. Hurston Jesse FAUCI said. Ralph Ellison your name it. I have first edition in some cases signed two other important people. Nice feeling and a nice feeling. It sounds like to give it away to give the to scholars into the public will. Yes, I'll tell you what happened after David Blake came to the house. He would come at least one sometimes two or three times a year. Sit at the table. And he did this for about twelve years, but not only did he come. He told other scholars about it, and they started coming, and they told other people, so it was a pilgrimage to Savannah and they all set at the dining room table. I wouldn't stay in there with him I. would check in in the evenings. What did you find because they found things that I didn't even know was in there I mean there's there the scholars collector? And by way, it's also going to be part of the film that the production company is putting together for net flicks. I'm just curious. Have you chatted with the Obamas about your collection or I have not, but I have chatted to people who are involved with this and I told them that I am at the age now seventy seven that. Frederick Douglass was when he passed and I would make a grand. Frederick Douglass. But I wouldn't mind making a cameo. Well you could maybe tell them that you know. There might be a place at the dining room table. If you WANNA come look at my stuff. Wouldn't that be wonderful? I love being. Collector Walter Evans A. We'll have some pictures of his artifacts at here. Now. Dot Org Dr Evans. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me I would like to say one thing please. The Bina key will digitize this collection. and. It would be available for the world to see. an the original documents will be there in time for the world to see, and we are having an exhibition that I think will happen within the next two years of the Douglas Material. And some of the other material from the heavens collection. Jane Baldwin Letters and they all Harrington cartoons in other words. You're saying you want people to come. Exactly. Walter thank you so much. Thank you. The world's richest man is set to testify before Congress tomorrow for the first time ever, Jeff. bezos is one of four powerful taxi IOS who face tough questions from the house antitrust subcommittee along with Apple. CEO Tim. Cook facebook CEO mark. Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai the CEO of Google and its parent company alphabet. Let's bring Jason del Racing Your correspondent for recode. Jason let's start with Bazo 's He's got a lot to answer questions about. This will also be first time. He'll have to respond publicly to that damaging report alleging that Amazon uses data, it collects from its own merchants to compete against them, which is something? The company has told Congress it doesn't do how big a moment is this going to be forbe's Amazon I think it's a really important moment you know. Jeff is a public figure in many ways, but they have really shielded him from. Two interviews in the seven years I've covered the company. He's never for an extended interview with sort of a regular Amazon beat reporter, and so I think this is the closest thing. We're GONNA. Get to him. Sort of having to be publicly responsible and provide public on the record comments for some business practices that people just have a lot of questions. About what do you think he's going to be asked about? You? Know I think they'll be three or four main issues that are expecting one for. For sure is how if in how Amazon is data from its own merchants that sell on Amazon to build products to compete against them. Amazon has long said it uses aggregate data from these sellers about a given product to see how they develop their own products, but the Wall Street Journal published a report interviewing former employees, saying actually we've looked at an individual sellers product and made informed decisions based off just that so that for sure will be a topic Amazon also has been accused of favoring. Its own business needs ahead of its own merchants in other ways by how it decides, who wins a certain sale with a certain customer in real time that's algorithm, but there will be questions about that and then completely separate I think we'll see questions about. Counterfeit and stolen goods on Amazon and how it does, or doesn't police that well, and we may even get questions related to its treatment of warehouse, associates that is not sort of traditional antitrust issue, but I'm sure we could make an argument that it's power gives it sort of this labor power that allows it to treat warehouse workers in certain ways. Ways, do you expect this hearing will lead to any actions that we've been hearing calls from both parties to break up big tech for some time now is that any clothes should actually happening I don't think we'll see sort of a direct correlation between you know this hearing and near-term action, but we will see is a couple of things potentially pressure on. On the regulators like the FTC or the Department of Justice to enforce actions against these companies based on some perhaps evidence or statements, we may also see them. Come out with a report after this hearing that says hey, those antitrust laws that we've had on the books for a century. We need to throw them out or really reinvent them because they were. Were created long before these digital platforms sort of modernized and revolutionized the way commerce media and entertainment happen online, and so I think we will see some impact, it just may not be as near term as perhaps some critics would, both as Jason Del Rey senior correspondent for recode. We'll be watching. It should be very interesting tomorrow Jason. Thank. You thank you. The trump administration's been busy during the pandemic, ramping up efforts to reshape rollback or dismantle longstanding environmental regulations on Water Air, climate change, including the law considered the foundation of American. Environmental Law, the fifty year old National Environmental Policy Act and that's just the tip of this rapidly melting iceberg, according to reporters like Peer Louis Senior for Gimblett media's how to save a planet podcast and author of green washed why? We can't buy our way to a green planet. She joins us from. New York to talk about just a few of the more than one hundred trump administration, environmental rule rollbacks Kendra welcome. Thank you so much for having me. So, we're going GONNA. Probably get to maybe or five of the most recent regulations that are being dismantled out of nearly one hundred. Just your sense of what you've been watching over the past five months. So the trump administration has been undergoing a really big push to sort of push through their regulatory agenda before the election. And one thing I really to make clear to your listeners is a position where we are right now, which is, it's been an unusually hot summer. We've had eight hurricanes, and there's a really strong chance. We're about to have our ninth named germ, so just kind of want to put this in a broader context of what these regulations mean. In terms of where planet is, these roles have real life repercussions. Well. We've been hearing. People involved in the Climate Change Movement. Feeling like they're watching helplessly from the sidelines of pandemic saying. Hey, we're. We're next. You know we're. We're going to be coming on stage soon. And things are only getting worse when it comes to climate change, but people have been more focused of course on the pandemic, and you know many people say they're connected so. Let's talk about the biggest change. The National Environmental Policy Act. This is what created the review process. Before you could build infrastructure highways, energy plants. You had to have a review of its impact on the environment. What does the rollback the change to yeah, so the rollback does things I at narrows the scope of the number of projects that are considered that have to go through this environmental review process, and one thing to be really clear about is the vast majority of federal projects. Don't actually have to go through this kind of intense environmental review. It's something like one percent actually do and that environmental review process simply makes you consider the alternatives. Alternatives so that you realize maybe we don't have to build this highway through a protected habitat, we can build this highway sort of around the protected habitat. The new rule says that even fewer of those projects have to get through that process the other thing that it does is that even WanNA project has to go through that process. You don't have to consider climate as one of the potential environmental impact, which many people are interpreting as a giveaway to pipelines, because pipelines have a really large climate effect on top of their broader environmental footprint. And not only would fewer projects have to consider climate in a review process. They don't have as much time to consider it. In the environmental impact, studies will have to be one to two years which many people doing these projects say that's not possible. The President says. Any longer is too much red tape. Democrats are saying they're going to fight this, but it feels like it's a fatal comple-. I mean it's technically a finalized role. The thing that's happened. I think that a lot of people don't fully understand kind of over the past fifty sixty years is basically once. We started cleaning our air and water. Realize that clean air and water. We're actually get things, and so there are lots of broader requirements and one place where you to see this playing out is under the trump administration's rollback of the clean power plan, which was designed to reduce emissions from coal powered plants in utilities. That original role that the Obama Administration created actually came out of a lawsuit, which said that the EPA had to regulate carbon emissions rates, and now the trump administration's plan. It doesn't go as far as bomb administration plan, and there was some question as to whether or not the Obama Administration's plan went far enough. So some of these rules that are getting rolled back. There is strong legal challenges that might undo them down the line, and also this might be something else I'm wondering that might undo this down the line, which is the election I mean Kennedy's changes being made by the trump administration be changed again by another administration. Yes, so yes is the short answer you. Nobody's have gone through the proper process, which is different, because in the beginning of the trump administration, the administration was sort of creating legislation by Fiat and they didn't go through this kind of. Introduce proposal regulation opening up to public comment, review the regulation, and then pass the final regulation process. They weren't doing that i. all the beginning until they were getting sued a lot and being forced to undo things just because they didn't follow the process which is regulated, and now they follow the process, so you can undo these by following the regulatory process, but again it depends on what the composition of congresses and we're running out of time. Even if there was a change in administration that wanted more environmental regulations every day that we don't reduce carbon emissions is a problem. Every additional unit of carbon that's emitted into the atmosphere is a problem, and so yes, we can and do these roles, but I also caution the fact that we're running out of time and new study came out pretty recently that we may have less time than we even thought. Thought the best case. Scenario we've been aspiring towards might not be feasible. Well, okay, let's plow on through these other changes that have happened the general, Accounting Office recent Lee released a report that low balls. The cost of damages done by greenhouse gas emissions. We know every ton of Co. two released has an economic impact. Things like damaged infrastructure, sea level, rise, weather events, and the new accounting is seven times lower. Than under the Obama Administration's accounting, which set the social cost of carbon at about eighty dollars a tonne. The trump administration says it's about eleven dollars so completely low balling the cost and charging less for the cost. Yes, so basically everyone who does for a living agrees that the trump administration's costs her to low I mean it's a question mark of. How do you pray carbon? We know we've. We've had some of the most expensive disaster years on record, and they're completely tied to climate change so hurricane harvey, for example, forty percent of that rainfall that was disastrous in Houston and sort of that broader region is because of climate change, and so it's really difficult to have billion dollar disaster after billion dollar disaster year, and not acknowledge that the real human and economic costs associated with that. Fuel economy standards. There was a rollback back in early April of the Obama era standards. The trump administration says it will make cars cheaper which is better for the economy, but analysts say cheaper cars. Using more gas is actually more expensive lifetime of car. Putting that aside. What does this mean for carbon dioxide emissions? Yeah, nothing good I'm. Administration wanted to get the fleet wide average fifty four point five miles per gallon by twenty, twenty five, and the trump administration has dropped to about forty miles per gallon. You're that the administration says that it will be cheaper. They also arguing that because cars will be cheaper. People with old cars will buy new cars that have higher safety centers, and that will save lives, but the thing that they're not factoring into that assessment is the number of lies, changeable claim, and we know that it will release about a billion more tons of carbon dioxide this. This changing of the roles as well as burn eighty billion gallons of gas, so it's not great from carbon perspective. And as I want to reiterate climate team, traffic costs were in the middle of a heat wave right now and a lot of the country like this has just been a very hot summer, and we know that's climate change. We also have EPA proposal in June to overhaul clean air rules. You mentioned clean air bags on accounting technique, changing the cost benefit analysis from now on only weighing the economic impact of a proposed rule, not the. Harder to find costs to public health, this is. Head by an industry. For Industry. Andrew Wheeler I'm. Just touching on just a few of the changes that have been made, I think it's also worth pointing out that as a condition of the pandemic that the trump administration sort of decided not to continue enforcing basically if you're a polluter, if you're an electric facility or something, and you emit a certain amount of pollution and umit over your tolerable level, you have to report and the trump administration said because of the pandemic of the facilities no longer had to report one. They had access pollution events rate, so we're talking about facilities that emit air pollution in the middle of a pandemic that we know causes respiratory distress that pollution. makes respiratory illnesses worse. In fact, there is research that suggests that people who've had higher levels of exposure to pollution over the course of their life are more likely to die of the corona virus. There's this mismatch in terms of what we're valuing rate, and that's only exacerbated by these kinds of regulatory changes. It's essentially. Prioritizing, the interests of corporations over the interest of the people who live in this country at one of the toughest times in this country. Kendra Pierre Louis author climate reporter for the Gimblett podcast company Kendra. We've just touched on the surface of this. The thank you so much for helping us do that. Thank you are trapped in the Robin. North Carolina is now in the top ten, and that is not a good thing. Top Ten in terms of the most corona virus cases of any state and top ten in terms of the most new cases in the last couple of days. Let's find out what's going on there with Jason. debruyn who's a reporter with W NC? He joins us from Raleigh Jason tell us about the spike. In cases that you're seeing there right now. Well, you hit the nail on the head I mean it. It is jumping up. You know now. We're measuring new cases in the hundreds in some days, even the thousands as opposed to the dozens which is a little bit concerning obviously one thing that's not quite as concerning is that. That our hospitalizations do seem to have plateaued a little bit for many weeks we were sort of going up slow and steady, not any big spikes, but definitely seeing day over day increases in certainly week over week increases now here for the past week or so those hospitalizations do seem to have leveled off. Of course you know there's always maybe that week or Or even sometimes two week lag period when you talk about a lab confirmed case to hospitalization, so were cautiously optimistic about the hospitalization number, but certainly our health experts are looking at that you know lab confirmed cases number in are worried that hospitals might see another uptake here, and that will really the next couple of days, but into the next week as well. And I know that you've noticed that. They're also a lot of cases. focused in meat packing plants, which is something we've also seen in other states. Absolutely look as you know, it's sort of a good environment for the virus to to flow right I mean. It's cold people close to each other having to shout at each other because of the noise you might not. Not. Know this but North Carolina's actually the second largest hog-producing state were behind Iowa so it's a major driver of our economy, thousands of workers in that industry, and of course president trump many months ago, named these essential workers, and certainly they are right I mean we rely on these meat processing facilities to get not only hot and and pork, but also poultry out. Out To our dinner tables, and so certainly they're important, but yeah, we are seeing outbreaks in these meat processing facilities unfortunately, and of course that's also oftentimes an immigrant community in some cases people who don't speak much English, and so there is a difficulty in getting some education out to these people, unfortunately at times, and in some cases people who live in multi. Multi generational households, which is also a problem when it comes to spreading the coronavirus now North Carolina is also a research hub president trump. was there yesterday visiting a lab? What's going on with vaccine? Development efforts there? Yes, so we That's right. So the University of North. Carolina at Chapel Hill Duke University I mean we pride ourselves here in the research triangle, Park. In our biomedical research, and in fact, UNC hospitals is going to be one of the sites to do vaccine clinical trials, and so people in this area, or perhaps excited to do their part to sign up for the so called healthy trials where you know, I they see if the vaccine does no harm to healthy individuals, so so yeah, it should be pretty cool to watch that vaccine development right here in our backyard. Our people in North Carolina, in general wearing masks. As far as you can tell, our businesses being careful in businesses, having to shut down because of the spike, so the answer's mostly I think we've seen that across the nation as well that people are mostly wearing masks, but that's not to say everybody. Certainly, we've had a group here. That has called themselves. The reopen in. See Right they they've had more churches. They've had protests. The people often are not wearing masks, and they're demanding that governor cooper. A Democrat reopened much of the state more quickly than he has. But that said many many businesses are following the rules. Many businesses are requiring people to wear face coverings I might note that bars here are still closed, so while restaurants are open bars or closed. Of course, that's been a bit of contention among some, but generally speaking at people are taking it pretty seriously, though unfortunately, that is not across the board. One more thing I want to ask you about north. Carolina is a swing state in this upcoming presidential race after trump's visit there yesterday, vice president pence will be there tomorrow. There is a governor's race this year. There's a Senate race this year. What is the landscape right now? Are People Feeling about their leaders? tense maybe. This is probably one of the biggest elections North Carolina will have had for for decades in addition to everything that you just mentioned. There's also redistricting on redistricting on the table I'm in North Carolina. Every ten years is when the legislature re districts and draws the lines, and you might remember that there was some contention about how those lines were drawn over the past year. So it's a it's a huge election here. North Carolina, probably the biggest in thirty years or more, perhaps even more than that, so definitely one to keep an eye on people here are watching it very closely and I think that that nerves a pretty high, and we'll stay high between now and Election Day and do you think it's hinging on what happens with the Corona, virus? I don't know that it's hinging on that alone. Certainly, there are a lot of other topics but I. it's clearly that is one of the main. Focuses of this election in North Carolina and other states right so I don't know that I would say it hinges on that. But, but clearly it's it's a major major factor. That Jason Dobrynin? WHO's a reporter with W? UNC joining us from Raleigh Jason Thank you you're welcome. And here now is a production of NPR WB are an association with the BBC World Service I'm Jeremy Hobson I'm Robin Young. This is here now.
Should We Defund the Police?
"Words have meaning, but people don't always mean what they say. We've got to understand that to understand the calls for defunding the police for the Colson Center I'm John. Stonestreet this is break point. I can't breathe the last words that George Floyd said to. His killers became the chant of nationwide protests, and then some time last week a new slogan emerged de-fund the police. Even abolish the police now at face value. The slogan sounds absurd. That's because it is when the CNN news anchor asked the President of the Minneapolis City Council. What if in the middle of the night? My home is broken. Broken into WHO DO I. Call the Council Woman's response that the ability to call for help in the first place is a matter of white privilege was shall we say less than enlightening? Abolishing police is the stuff of Utopian fantasies. It's only possible and world's without evil doers, because such worlds do not exist law enforcement of some kind at least here on earth will always be necessary to think. Think otherwise is just a misunderstand. The human condition, the line, separating good and evil, wrote alternates, and passes not through states nor classes nor political parties, neither does it pass through occupations as if policemen are intrinsically evil, while social workers or teachers or protesters are intrinsically good, see the problems in all of us in every human heart, still just because law enforcement will always be necessary this side of. Of The new earth does not mean that reform of law enforcement is unnecessary. Indeed, this is actually what many people mean despite what they're saying house. Majority whip, James Clyburn, a veteran of the civil rights movement worries that calls to D- funder abolish. The police could hijack the momentum to make serious police reforms in the wake of George Floyd's death as he put it if you mean reimagining policing. That in fact, police departments across the nation have made reforms in recent years, attempting to root out corruption and improve community relations in offsite example is Camden New Jersey one of the most violent cities in America. Not that long ago, and then in two thousand twelve, after concluding that police corruption was a contributor to the violence. The city dissolved the department turn law enforcement over to the county twice. The number of officers were on the street, but they had A. A new emphasis known as community policing while still spending less money, and within five years, the number of homicides in Camden dropped by two thirds among the goals as a former chief of police told NPR was to change how the community viewed police officers from warrior to Guardian behind candidates. Reforms are a handful of principles that are worthy of our consideration for example, ending qualified immunity which shields government officials from being sued for discretionary actions perform within their official. This practice shield wrongdoers from accountability, and it's problem not just, but especially in law enforcement, the police officer who not on the neck of George Floyd until he died should have already been held accountable for a number of previous complaints, the TSA officer in Denver who was caught selecting which male passengers he wanted to pat down and two thousand fourteen should face criminal charges instead of just being fired and hospital officials who prevented my friend and his sons from seeing his wife and their mom for three weeks before she died last month, they should be held accountable for failed policies. They're hiding behind. A second reform has to do with police unions among the reasons Camden dissolved its police force was because the union was making it impossible to discipline, bad and corrupt officers and mayors across the country. We'll tell similar stories again. This is not a problem unique to law enforcement. If we want to see an improvement in failing schools than teachers, unions cannot be allowed to protect bad teachers of course when it comes to police, corruption and incompetence that's protected can lead to someone being killed. Final principle was that civil society simply must be strengthened. As was said in New York magazine in the US the police are the answer for everything to an overdose, a noisy party counterfeit bill in a shop. They are the first and often last resort for any complaint. No matter how petty there's no end to the responsibilities with which we have charged them. In other words, police officers are carrying the weight of failed families broken communities, invisible churches in human isolation. Chuck in us to say the choice often boils down to the conscience or the constable, only moral formation and mutual accountability can reduce our overall reliance. Reliance on police, and the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century communities in both Britain and the US, saw a significant drop in crime and a significant increase in safety, and even in some cases, a significant drop in the number of police officers. Why well at least one reason seems to be Sunday school? Now? Of course there's also much to be said here about the increase militarization of the police as not a solution for a broken community, some often like claim, instead, it's actually evidence of just how bad the problem is so de-fund no abolish no reform. Absolutely, but no, this can't be only government job. For breakpoint. I'm John Stonestreet.
The Black Lives Matter generation remembers John Lewis.
"Coming up on five minute news. Trump says he won't commit, to election results if he loses. Black lives matter, generation remembers John Lewis. And floods in the poll and India displace nearly four million people. It's Monday July twenty. I'm Anthony Davis. President Donald Trump is refusing to publicly commit to accepting the results of the upcoming white. House election, recalling a similar threat. He made weeks before the thousand sixteen vote. Trump says it's too early to make such an ironclad guarantee. The Biden campaign responded the American. People will decide this election and the United States. Government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the White House. Critics say it's remarkable that a sitting president would express less than complete confidence in the American democracies electoral process. Trump's language actions in recent weeks have been described as fascist after peaceful protests were kidnapped by his unidentified military police from the streets of Portland Oregon is recent declaration identifying Antifa as a terrorist organization would suggest that his administration is the fascist regime. They protest against trump is seen his presidential popularity erode. Erode handling of the coronavirus pandemic, and in the aftermath of nationwide protests centered on racial injustice that erupted after George Floyd's death in Minneapolis nearly two months ago. Trump said he could understand why black Americans are upset about how police use force disproportionately against them, but added his usual refrain that whites are also killed two, suggesting that he has not grasped the significance of the black lives matter movement. The United States tops the global covid nineteen death toll with over one, hundred, forty thousand, and confirmed infections of nearly four million. Currently, trump is seeking to block. Of dollars in funding for corona, virus, testing and contact tracing efforts as cases spike across the US, where around seventy thousand people testing positive each day trump has repeatedly blamed increased testing for the rising cases, though that theory is clearly debunked by the results of those very tests. US, Congressman John, Lewis died on Friday night months after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer at a pivotal moment for race relations in the United States, protesters in cities from coast to coast, a demanding widespread reforms in the wake of the May twenty fifth police killing of Floyd of all the ways that John Lewis influenced American. Life and politics. He's indelible impact on young people may be among the most enduring from student activists to elder statesman Louis continually encourage. Encourage the nation's youth to start good trouble and modeled just how to do that. He was arrested alongside millennial activists pushing for comprehensive reform of US immigration laws in two thousand, thirteen for the black lives massive generation, the connection to Lewis is deeper than many may realize as a young man through clouds of tear gas into hail of billy clubs. Lewis nearly lost his life marching against segregation and for Voting Rights Democratic lawmakers said on Sunday they don't. Don't want tweet so condolences to on a civil rights icon. John Lewis they want policymakers to get to work to honor the Georgia Congressman's Legacy Representative James Clyburn the House majority whip urged. Donald, trump and Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell to pass legislation that would expand voting rights in Lewis's name Clyburn also called for the Edmund. pettus bridge in Selma Alabama to be renamed in honor of Lewis a lifelong friend. The bridge currently named after reform confederate general. General and Klu Klux Klan leader became a critical site during the civil rights movement on Bloody Sunday. In Nineteen Sixty Five Alabama state troopers beats peaceful demonstrators there, including Lewis, who suffered a fractured skull? Recent protests have prompted cities nationwide to reconsider monuments and honours granted to people with ties to the confederacy or other racists legacies an online petition to rename the bridge in Lewis's honor was drafted last month and has gained more than five hundred thousand signatures. Nearly four million people in India's northeastern state of Assam and neighboring pull have been displaced by heavy flooding from monsoon rains with dozens missing as deaths rose to at least one hundred and eight thousand nine government officials, said yesterday, the overflowing Brim Putra River which flows through China's Tibet, India and Bangladesh has damaged crops and triggered mudslides more than two point, seven five million people in Assam, who've been displaced by three waves of flood since late May that has claimed seventy-nine lives off. The two more deaths were reported overnight Osama's facing the twin challenge of combating floods and the coronavirus pandemic out of thirty three districts twenty-five remained defected after the current wave of flooding beginning a fortnight. India is grappling with the novel Corona Virus which is infected, nearly one point one million people there and twenty, six, thousand, eight, hundred sixteen have died from the covid nineteen disease in neighbouring Nepal. The government asked residents along its Southern Plains on Sunday to remain alert. Rains were expected to pound the Himalayan nation where more than one hundred have died in floods and landslides since June. You can subscribe to five minute news on Youtube with your preferred podcast APP. Smart Speaker or enable five minute news as your Amazon. Alexa flash briefing skin. Visit US online at five minute. Dot News five minute us is an independent production covering politics, inequality, health and climate, delivering unbiased, verifying and truthful World News daily.
Rep. Clyburn: Congress may sue Trump over national emergency
"Powell oppose President Obama's effort to unilaterally fix a broken immigration system, by granting amnesty, meaning illegal immigrants. This is wrong is irresponsible and we'll do damage our efforts to fix broken immigration system. This is a tremendous presidential overreach. We'll try to define the effort for him to go along. We will challenge him in court. Now, we'll continue to work to repair a broken immigration system and about partisan fashion with the president has chosen to do those done. Great damage to our nation. Good morning and welcome to joy, well, Lindsey Graham that was him back in twenty fourteen he lit his hair on fire after President Obama implemented the DACA program through executive action. But once Donald Trump and his rambling nearly hour long speech on Friday, Senator Graham, wasted no time going on Twitter to pledge his absolute devotion feel too and fidelity. Taste president is captain praising Trump's use of executive power to swipe techs payer dollar's without congressional authorization to build that wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for parents didn't matter that the president once again toward the constitutional the constitution in order to render congress powerless valley to ignore the law that Graham, and a super majority of senators and house members just passed and that Trump just signed or that the president undercut his own rationale for declaring national emergency by becoming his own worst witness when this declaration inevitably goes to court. I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn't need to do this. But I'd rather do it much faster. And I don't have to do it for the election. I've already done a lot of wall for the election twenty twenty and the only reason we're up you're talking about this because of the election because they want to try and win an election, which it looks like they're not going to be able to do. And this is one of the ways they think they can possibly win is by obstruction and a lot of other nonsense. And I think that I just wanna get it done faster. Two. How Democrats poised to us every measure at their disposal to try and block Trump's latest stunt in the legal challenges. All ready mounting. Let's take a look at where things go from here. Join me, I was house majority whip congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina. Congressman how are you? Good. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you so much. Of course. So let's talk about what congress can do about this. But I wanna before that you've been around congress for awhile. Have you ever heard of president declaring a national emergency in order to thwart obstruction in congress? That is amazing to me that this president by his own words admit that we do not have an emergency. What we've got here is disagreement between the congress and the executive branch of the government exactly how to pay for border security. Now, the president promised us throughout the campaign that he was going to be Bill those big beautiful wall and Mexico would be paying for it. That's the probably made. That's what people voted for. Now. He's saying the congress should pay for it. That's never been ended discussion by the president or anybody else. Running for congress. Nobody running for congress ran on paying for big beautiful thirty foot wall. So the president does not have an emergency. He is manufactured of this crisis. And now he's in a tip thing to get the congress to agree with him to pay for something that he himself created and admitted on yesterday that he did not have to do it. And quite frankly, he should not have done it and be Bill that was signed into law by the president not long before he declared this national emergency anywhere in that Bill. Does it authorize the president of the United States take money out of the defense department or any other agency to build a wall? Absolutely not congress has a power of the purse. We have the toll the president and everybody else how money should be spent and much of this of the president's talking about repurposing money paid for the fence this country paid to do what the president said he's trying to do with building the wall. So he's taking the money away from the friends of the country much of it in military construction to pay for some diva wall, which he knows would be ineffective, and he knows has never been authorized and should not be authorized, and what will congress do? Now as majority whip Doug, you're in the leadership team that's going to make a decision on what happens. Now, what does the house of representatives from here? Well, I would hope the speaker of the house, and that's below say will put forward a resolution of disapproval that we can do I really believe the votes there in the past resolution disapproval and is on the understanding legislation. The Senate then we'll have to act on this resolution within eighteen days of our having passed it. And hopefully, the Senate will agree now how hold out hope that they will. And I certainly know that if there were to agree with us the president Republic vetoed. I don't know why legislation was written that way if called upon us to disapprove of what the president may say why then we go back, then the president a second by out of that. So the speak, but that's the way the listeners written, and we'll see what happens that part here quickly before we go. We don't have a lot of time. But if they're possibility house representatives might see the price. President as the Republicans attempted to sue President Obama when they didn't like I believe it was over the affordable character, DACA. Great cross ability. I think speaker Pelosi has spoken to that. But the fact of the matter is by the time, we get back up there in another week in the suit done. We'll be fifteenth in line because I think there must be four five suits already. Wow. Okay. Congressman Jim Clyburn half the journey with. Thank you, very much, sir. Thank you time. Thank you. Thank you. Let's now bring in our panel Paul Butler MSNBC legal analyst now, you're a hawk former White House, senior director Corinne Joan Pierre. Senior adviser for move on dot org. Rick Stengel, former under secretary of state in the Obama administration and former head of the national constitution center. Ellie mistrial editor at above the law dot com and Rick Wilson, Republican media strategist and author of everything Trump touches dies quite subtle title. I want to start with you Paul the national emergencies act of nineteen seventy six stipulates that when a president declares a national emergency. He has the complete discretion to issue it the president's required to notify congress and specify which power he intends to use congress can then block it with a resolution of disapproval, which we just discussed with the congressman the president has to report to congress on emergency related expenditures, six months, and the president must issue public updates. If he decided to invoke additional powers, the previous national emergencies that are still in. Effect. They can be an effect as long as congress doesn't stop them for the Iranian hostage crisis in nineteen seventy nine the nine eleven terror attacks two thousand one violence and atrocities and the Democratic Republic of Congo and the spread of nuclear weapons in North Korea. This is not that this is illegal unconstitutional. The congressman is right. There's going to be a long line of people waiting to sue Donald Trump. This is like a jobs program for constitutional lawyers or so many legal issues begin. All it does is really moved the delay from congress to the court because it's going to take a long time for all of these issues to be resolved, including what is the emergency. Emergency sounds like national crisis media crisis that doesn't exist when Trump was confronted with those facts yesterday, he ignores them, oh, most drugs, come in through people who are entering the country legally said, I don't believe it. He was told that native born. Americans actually commit more crimes than immigrants. He said. That's not true. It is true. So we have a president who has willfully ignorant about facts who already was the most powerful person in the world. But when he declares national emergency. He unleashes these super powers and can't Elliott if you could explain to us how would a lawsuit play out. We've heard now that organizations are talking about potentially suing the president over this. There could be the lawsuit. You just heard congressman Clyburn said it's it's possible for congress to play out who has standing to sue over this lots of people going to play out pretty much like the president said it was going to play out. He will be sued, and he will lose then it will be appealed and he will lose again. And then it will go to the supreme court. And that's where professor Butler thinks that it right right in terms of the president being willfully ignorant. But the problem is that we also have a supreme court stacked with Trump judge. Ges that might well be willfully ignorant of the president. We saw this all happen with the Muslim ban. And the key problem at the conservatives on the supreme court when it came to the Muslim ban is that they refuse to acknowledge the evidence that the president was acting that faith. I know liberals wanna look at that press conference that disaster in the rose garden and say oh Trump admitted that there's no emergency. That's true. But the supreme court now has a documented history of ignoring the fact that the president is lying and acting in bad, faith and acting on his on his directives. Anyway, my do think that protect amok rec- is or the people who were already suing. There representing Paso, the California attorney general they're going to have sanding they're gonna sue very quickly. There is a very very very good separation of powers argument, the president cannot declare a national emergency because Nancy Pelosi gave him a wedgie. That said there are five conservative justices. And we don't know if they have the strength to stand up to the president because they haven't in the past. We didn't need that visual L eight to punish. I'm going to play Donald Trump saying use it. But he said it in song. And I. So the the order resigned. And I'll sign the final papers as soon as I get into the Oval Office, and we will have a national emergency. And we will then be sued, and they will Souiss and the ninth circuit, even though it shouldn't be there, and we will possibly get a bad ruling. And then we'll get another bad ruling, and that will end up in the supreme court, and hopefully, we'll get a fair shake, and we'll win of the supreme court just like the ban. It just like the band the ban is the problem here every argument everybody's gonna make for why this is a legal. We all made for the band, and the band should have been a legal and the print port ignored ignored it and authorize that and so when you when you're talking to congressman Clyburn, congress cannot just assume that the courts are going to bail them out. If there any Republican senators who do not want president popularly president who won the popular vote to declare national emergency godown Amar Lago raise it turn into a sandbar to protect against the high the rising seas. If any Republican doesn't want that future. They need to vote against us. National -mergency and terminated Rick. Rick Wilson on this. Because this is the problem. Rick. Laurence tribe. Made the point that Paul and Elliott has made very clear tweeted from the constitution. Imagine that article one section nine member. The article one power is congress no money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law, and then he asked what part of no money. Do you not understand Mr. Trump, Mike Lee who is from the wing? We normally think of as being sort of self described constitutional conservatives came out, and he said his initial assessment is that what Trump announces legal whether or not it should be legal is a different matter. Congress has been seeding far too much power to the executive branch for decades. We should use this moment as an opportunity to start taking that power back. There's a lot of cynicism. Rick about whether or not even he's going to mean that when a Bill is put on the floor a resolution of disapproval. The thinking of a lot of people is that people like Mike Lee are going to hem and haw, and then they're not going to vote for that that resolution. That's right joy. I think we're going to see is the usual act that we see the Republican caucus every time. There are furrowed brows. There's hand wringing. There's oh they run to their fainting couches because it's so shocking and appalling, and they tell reporters off the record. I can't believe this guy. Did this outrageous agreed just thing? And then they will go on the floor out of fear of a primary twenty twenty and say, you know, Mr President, I believe he's doing this for the right reasons and the right thing, it is an unbelievable abdication of their responsibilities. And it's one more sign that my party has has devolved into. Media-bashing, and and Trump worshiping, and there's nothing else there everything we used to care about the constitution the deficit the debt security alliances. The world stability moral probity all of its gone except for what makes Donald happy. And you know, Rick Stengel, the other thing that appears to be gone is any concern that the defense department's the money appropriate to the defense department was given to them for a good reason. Right. I mean, we we've been accustomed to hearing liberal say there should be cuts to the department offense and conservative saying, no, you absolutely cannot and then having agreements between Democrats and Republicans at the Pentagon just keep getting more money. Well, in this case, Donald Trump is planning to take money away from the military in order to do something. Mexico supposed to pay for he got one point three seven five billion dollars from the appropriations Bill. None of which was authorized to be a wall. It's very explicit. I just asked the congressman this. He's going to. Try and take three point six billion dollars. Emergency powers for military construction. Another two point five billion dollars from the defense department's drug interdiction program, which seems counter factual if the goal is to decrease drug smuggling on the southern border, and then he's going to swipe six hundred million dollars in the Treasury Department's drug forfeiture fund. Are we now believe that at least in the current erasure of the Republican party and the Republican White House defense department money is fungible? It doesn't matter that whatever those that money was intended for is not important. He's just going to use it to build a wall and put his name on it. Well, joy, it's another usurpation of Congress's power is congress designated that money for the defense department. They said that it's important. He kind of off handed remarks that it doesn't seem that important to me. But I want to go back to the primary culprit here, and I'm so glad you actually at the beginning of the show last something from the national emergencies act of nineteen seventy six that's the problem. It's a poorly worded. Did overly broad law. That basically says the president of the United States defines what national emergency is. And he defines it simply by declaring a national emergency. That's the problem. Congress needs to remedy that. I am not confident that the courts would overturn any of his actions because the courts have a history of confirming what the legislators have done they will look at the law and the law says look the president can do this. This law was passed in the post-war to gate era. In fact, ironically enough to give congress more oversight about presidents declaring emergencies act, but congress has abdicated that responsibility. There have been fifty nine of these national emergencies declared since the law thirty one are still extent and congress has never even had a hearing or overturn one of them. So I think the remedy for this, frankly, it's not the courts that will just go along with what the law says, the remedy is congress, and they're as as a lot of the folks have said, I'm not. Hopeful either that that's the problem. Come to the table here, Corrine. If congress is congress is the most powerful entity as written in the United States constitution. But at this point one half of the congress, it was both are essentially acting as agents of the president they're acting as employees, basically. So the courts are now being stacked with agents of the president. Yeah. What? Now, we are in trying times for sure joy. So I think what now is we're going to see two things we're going to see a divided government. So you have Nancy Pelosi who has a gavel who is the speaker of the house, and I think what she's gonna do. She'll put forth a resolution she will force Republicans to go on record not just in the house, but in the Senate because because it's a resolution and because of it's a national emergency. And what it means? It'll just automatically like she can't stop. I mean, Mitch McConnell can't stop not putting has to put it on the floor. So he's cat to make those twenty two Republicans who are up for election in twenty twenty are going to have to vote on this. And so that's going to be key. I think really can't you have some purple state Republicans who are worried about what's going on with this national emergency. And what this president is doing. And then there's another point part of this too. It is the people right move on is going to be hosting thousands of thousands of people have signed up in the last twelve hours. And there are more than one hundred events coast-to-coast across the country. That's going to happen on Monday and people have to take to the streets. We can't allow this to happen. And you know, who's a national emergency. It is Donald Trump who's the national -mergency. There is no national -mergency. He wants this bigoted wall that majority of people do not want and he's trying to placate to a third of his base. And that's all he's doing. And also the white wing media who he's afraid of who have bullied him into first of all shutting down the government for thirty five days. And now we're in this situation with a national emergency. So it's going to be up to the house who's going to have to put them all on a record them being the Republicans, and we have to take to the streets. And I think you make a point because Also Monday is president's day, which is which is interesting in the sense that Donald Trump, and I'm gonna please a pretty long sound bite. But I wanna play it because I want to come to your on the question of what is a president at this. But what does it mean to be president? Right. It doesn't. It appears that as. This is an original thought Donald Trump is doing television show, and the television show is for an audience of about two people, Sean Hannity and in Coulter and that he feels it as long as they enjoy the show he's being president. But you can't make policy and take actual real tax money and put it toward a television show because building a wall, it isn't even possibly it would never happen in the lifetime of his presence. Even if he had to terms just the imminent domain lawsuits would take years, but I wanna play an aspect of Donald Trump doing this show. It also has a lot of seeds of echoes of terrorism. And just the way that he refuses to accept information. And the way he treats this particular reporter this report named Brian Carrim at book on the show, but he's stays attached to CNN 'cause he was really I mean, I thought this question was spot on. But here he is attempting to get Donald Trump to to accept reality. Asking you to clarify where you get your numbers because most of the DA crimes reporting statistics that we see show that drugs are coming cross at the ports of entry that illegal immigration is down and the violence is down. So what do you base your lacks come on? Let's go and Secondly. You get one. Wait, sit down sit down could you? Please get one question. I get my numbers from a associates like homeland security primarily and the numbers that I have from homeland security are a disaster. And you know, what else is disaster. The numbers that come out of homeland security Kirstin for the cost that we spend and the money that we lose because of illegal immigration, billions and billions of dollars a month, billions and billions of dollars, and it's unnecessary. So your own government stats are wrong or you. So I use many stats us. You're with us. Let me tell you. You have stats at a far worse than the ones that I use. But I use many stats, but I also use homeland security next to you go confront Okuda therapath thinking, there's not sit down apparently United States, the employees three hundred and twenty six million people on our boss. Donald Trump seems to our boss and that he's the any can tell report a sit down and shut up. No, you can't. Well, as you mentioned, the broader authoritarian attitude that he has in complete denial of how our democracies supposed to work, right? He is enabled to negotiate with congress. Which is a co equal branch their article one of their powers came first. They're the ones who actually decide how taxpayer money get spent not the president of the United States in any administration. And he completely denies the authority of the fourth estate, which is the media and their necessary function of being transparent check on behalf of the American public. This is him aping the dictators that we see authoritarians we see overseas. This is why he loves Kim Jong. This is why he loves Putin who has a similar tactics of how he treats media and treats fact checkers and really anybody who questions with already or detain the Philippines. The numbers of examples. Overseas or endless, and this is the challenge that we now have a national security of having Donald Trump represent the United States at places like the Munich security conference. He sent vice president. There to effectively wage a domestic speech to the international audience about how North Korea and Iran are the biggest threats to the world not bringing up his own national emergency that he just cleared that is border crisis. That apparently requires rating the department of defense budget. You would think he would talk about that overseas. If that was the true national security threat that we're facing and luckily cont we've had the biggest congressional delegation ever, go to the same conference to reassure our allies that the United States is still working to fight for these values. Overseas of freedom of press freedom of religion of maintaining alliances. And that is now what congress stepping up to do. So thank God that we have at least some members of congress that are willing to exercise authority, and who will now be held accountable as resolution moves forward. Paul do the military contractors who? That money was intended to go to in order to do contractually pops. That is su- at some point without very important. Do they have standing to probably court will decide so congress will have standing possibly to make legal claims people whose homes are taken by the government. Fiber property. So they'll be a lot of suits there. And yet we can talk about lawsuits from military contractors? But I wanna talk about lobbying lobbying those Republicans who know that this is illegal and unconstitutional because this is billions of dollars those military contractors are counting on spending for actual military projects. This is not a military project congress as we know has the power to appropriate money congress. These billions should go to our armed services. When President Trump removes that to build a wall, he's got to have a legal explanation. He's got a point to a specific law that authorizes this that law does not exist again both legal challenges, but one Portland political challenges because if congress wants to they can shut this down and Rick Stengel native American tribe in Arizona, that's already indicated that they're not going down without a fight. They're not gonna allow their land to be taken. I mean, all it's been done to the native tribes. The idea that government would go in and try to seize. Their land to put a wall on it. You've seen in Nogales, Arizona. They're stringing concertina wire on the American side. So that they have to look at this hideous prison like wall on their side for no reason and then the takings clause. We're about to get an education, and what it looks like when eminent domain is visited upon private ranchers in Arizona is that where we're headed. Yes. The indignity of native Americans just obviously continues on in the case of eminent domain. I do think the suits around those particular geographical areas where the president is using eminent domain frivolously might actually be more successful. Even though I do agree that the ultimate remedy for. This is congress. I mean, the the primary culprit is the is the national securities law it needs to either amended. It needs to be changed. Congress needs to take action. And I agree with Korean the people need to get out there. And this kind of thing I mean, not only the fourth. State, but the fifth state of people out there saying look these things are not going to be tolerated. Even if they abide by law fear that if they fate of of this thing is in the hands of Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins and company, I'm not sure that that's very hopeful people greed Elliott and Rick will back later in the show. Now, you're hug brick single. Thank you very much and coming up things from bad to worse for comment. To be clear. Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what I. The position is. Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort is now facing the possibility the very real possibility spending the rest of his life in prison special counsel. Robert Muller is recommending a sentence of nineteen to twenty four years in Manford Virginia case where he was found guilty of tax and Bank fraud. This comes just days after a judge in a different case rule that Manafort violated the terms of his plea agreement but lying multiple times to the special counsel's office. Join me now MSNBC political analyst, Michael Steele and Craig Unger author of house of Trump house of Putin. I'm going to come to the table here. I to my friend, Michael, can you think of the logical reason why Paul Manafort would take the chance of spending the rest of his life in prison by lying to the special counsel. I think that the obvious one on the table is a tooth thing to one the loyalty that he has for Trump which goes back a significant amount of time into the expectation that at some point in this morass, he's going to get part. And he's going to get the Altima forgiveness of his sins. By the president. And I think that's what animates in motivates him the way we've seen so he can go in in lie and you skate, and I think I think that there is some degree of coordination with these gentlemen with the president in that, you know, we're going to go mess up muddy up this waters as much as possible. Make it harder for stuff to stick. And on the other side of that for for that good service. You know, the presence willing to make a pardon for them. And so there's no other reason there's no other explanation beyond those two points for me. Right. That sounds like mob. Loyalty to be honest with you because at the end of the day, even fellow Trump would a pardon Paul Manafort in the federal cases that doesn't have anything to do with the state of New York. These crimes were committed in the state of New York. And some of the weird new stuff we're finding about the handing over of campaign data at the cigar bar inside of Jared Kushner, six Fifth Avenue like this is all it sounds very mafia-like your book, one of the reasons we really wanted to have you on that you're kind of talks about this sort of mob. Accuracy that has developed around Donald Trump is that what this is. Absolutely. I think it's a real problem. I think one of the guys who really sort of stupid this week is Senator Richard Burr, who's the Republican chairman. Of the Senate intelligence committee. Should there was no evidence? No direct evidence of collusion. But look at Roger stone and Paul Manafort, and if you look at Manafort it goes way back to at least two thousand four two thousand and five when he was essentially a Russian agent. He was being paid up to ten mil is firm with being paid ten million dollars a year to install a Russian of pro Russian pro-putin president in Ukraine, and if you look at those campaigns that he did for President Yanukovych they were successful he delivered for Putin. And he continued to in many ways that seems to be a dry run of what what he did in two thousand and sixteen putting another pro-putin president in the White House. It's it's uncanny. Michael. Be judge in this case has ruled that Paul Manafort lied about interactions and communications with Guinan Constantine clinic. Russian oligarch one hundred twenty five thousand dollar payment to affirm affirm a an information material to another DOJ pro the judge who's Amy Berman. Jackson said this is it problematic attempt to shield his Russian conspirator from liability, and it gives rise to legitimate questions about where his loyalties live. It sounds like she's accusing essentially working for a foreign government. This loyal to a from when she was very clearly noise in addressing Mr. Manafort, and I think you're going to see that reflected alternately in the sentence. I think they'll also going back to your first question. Maybe a third piece of this is the ongoing business relationships that Manafort and others have a want to have. And I know I suspect this is probably true a lot with Donald Trump. Well, he still wants Trump Tower Moscow at the end of the day that that's the best the crown jewel for him. It's not the presidency of the United States is not being leader of the free world is honing owning a hotel in Moscow that Ted this that's the motivator. So I think there are a lot of financial interest. Not so much political, but more financial interests that Dr ally these folks and how these families will be taking care of for their loyalty today in the future. We'll talk backpacks. That's another thing. Book is don't have been pursuing this quest for at Trump Tower Moscow goes back to the eighties. What is this about? I mean, there are lots of places you could build a Trump condominium. Why is he so focused fixated on doing it in Russia? Right. Well, I go back to the early eighties. And if you go to one thousand nine hundred eighty four you can see that abandoned David Bogin who had ties to the Russian mafia met with Donald Trump in Trump Tower, crumb tower just been opened up and Bogan came in and put down six million dollars in cash. It's equivalent of about fifteen million today and he bought five condos that was essentially laundering money for the Russian, mafia. And if you look at Trump Tower over those years, I found at least thirteen people who'd been in Trump Tower societas with the Russian mafia the Russian mafia important to say is a state actor. It's very unlike the Italian American mafia were more familiar in this country. So they report to Putin, and you can see Manafort over the years among other things he'd laundered money through a company called loose ical, and that was tied to a Russian mobster named Simeon mogul eight which the financial genius behind the Russian, mafia. So there's some very nasty. Characters here. And I think it's extraordinarily disturbing that the Russian mafia on and off for more than thirty five years. It's using Trump Tower as. As a base of operations to run operations or gathering information there. They bailed him out Trump had over expanded into Atlantic City hit six bankruptcies, totally four billion dollars. And when he came back Russian money played a huge huge role in. There was a firm named bayrock that was based in Trump Tower real estate development company, and they partnered with with Trump again, and again, and they put in money that much of which had been coming a been laundered through vehicles like the F L group, which is an Icelandic firm. Quickly. Craig, do you think that Donald Trump will start with Paul Manafort keys, afraid of these Russians? There have been some polonium incidents. Do you think he's scared of them? Will it certainly possible? I think they're two possible reasons. One of Michael Steele said is he's obviously protecting Donald Trump and he's playing for a pardon. But as you say he again can face. Prosecution in state jurisdictions, but the Russian mafia serious there have been people dying over this. There've been a lot of unexplained deaths and it wouldn't surprise me. Manafort was afraid of that. Yeah. Let's quickly play Adam Schiff that chairman of the how the how the house telling committee talking about this lying and potential pardon seeking. The motivation here is if he told the truth about his relationship with someone affiliated with Russian intelligence while he was the campaign chairman that would be so damaging affectively to Trump that it would negate his chance of a pardon that to me is quite telling negate tanto pardon because it would be so damaging to Donald Trump is that Republican party just unbothered by the potential that you have a president that could still be an ongo being probe right now for whether or not he's an Asian of a foreign power, and that is surrounded himself with all these people who are by the Russians put up list, cut, six producers, look at all these people who have approached in approached by Russians or lied about Donald Trump junior. Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump Michael Cohen Felix Seder, George popadopoulos, Paul Manafort Carter page, Jeff Sessions, Michael Flynn JD. Gordon, Roger stone. Michael caputo? It just keeps going and why is the? The Republican party not concerned about this. Well, so so let's Louis separate the join the separation is the faces that you had up. There's not the Republican party. Okay. So those folks are have had very little dealings inside the party someone like Manafort was not a player in the party since the Watergate era Paulin was was airman who's a chair finance, right? So, but so ten Jeff Sessions, the vast majority of the people in that's screen were not part of the Republican party where you have the joining is around this idea of electing someone who's an outsider Donald Trump along with that came all this other stuff. So to your question about why did they tolerate this the party put up inside, they're frustrated as hell they're mad about it the angry about it. But at the end of the day it boils down to Donald Trump rally a significant fight inside of upcoming primary for me that I don't wanna have to. Deal with the I don't want to have to answer to that. And so it goes to something you, and I've talked about a lot of that is the unwillingness to lose an election because you're standing on principle. Standing on those foundational values of the party that go back many many generations all of that is now God. Yeah. And for a lot of these folks, we're looking at the disposable politics of the Republican party. We don't we no longer need this debt. We don't care about that. Because Donald Trump is president spending with the Bandon. We don't care about that. Because. Wants to where they're why. Because the promise of what he's offers, which is Texas judges, right? And it's a Faustian bargain, by the way, because the price that you pay for that is going to be too great for the party long-term, then credit just in your reporting. How owned is the party? And I mean, the they're in the NRA the Russians have been very thorough about weed alling their way in not just Donald Trump. And you're also talking about the NRA. I mean, it's pretty thorough. Absolutely. I think a lot of the Republican party has gotten money from Trump, and it goes been going on for years. You can go back to Tom DeLay when he was beaker in the house, and he flew off KamAz and money ended up with some super PACS for him. There are Russian oligarchs who are naturalized American citizens. I'm thinking Leonard Bullivant who gave I think it's eleven million dollars to the Republicans. Senatorial campaign committee that money ends up going to Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham. And as you said, you have the NRA which got tens of millions of dollars and that money can in turn be funneled to the Republicans. Well ghost of Ronald Reagan should be haunting a few folks. That would I mean, this is very such turn of events. Michael steele. Thank you guys very much. Appreciate it. Coming up, a member of the house freshmen class that has Democrats talking. Republicans quite shook. Isis abused by the press. And by the Democrats about the way, we're going to be taken care of ice. You know, we talk about the. The new Bill we're going to be taking care of ice. They wanted to get rid of ice. And the Bill is just the opposite of that. Some of the new freshmen lawmakers who've been targeted by Donald Trump were among the first to challenge declaration of national emergency near outside. The ocasio Cortez is joining Texas congressman Joaquin Castro to introduce a Bill to stop the declaration. My next guest issued a scathing denunciation of Trump's action saying the occupant of the White House is dangerous dangerous to our economy dangerous to our democracy and to our humanity. Into enemy now is one of the members of congress and the house oversight committee, Massachusetts, congressman, I Anna Presley, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show. We wanted to have you on for quite a long time. But let's start by talking about this emergency declaration. What do you expect to happen in the house as a result? Well, I'm thrilled to be original co-sponsor of the resolution to overturn this overreach a complete abusive authority in the Massachusetts, delegation and. One of my favorite members, and the chair of the rules committee gyms maverick Jim McGovern said this is constitutional vandalism and I completely agree with that. Yeah. What about the underlying issue? I mean. Even though you're in Massachusetts. I've found just when you talk with supporters of this build a wall idea, they actually are more for it the farther they are away from the southern border that you have people who somehow become convinced that there's this invasion taking place thousands of miles away from where they are. How do you even make an argument against that? It's easy to see why they're convinced when the occupant of this White House, and it'd be clear I call him that not because I decided the office. But because he does he is not honored their responsibility or the grace befitting this office. We went from a president who sang amazing grace to a president who has demonstrated little if any at all. During the member orientation as a freshman, the best advice, I received was that in the midst of governing lawmaking it's very easy to forget the plot and two for not to not forget the plot. And the plot is the American people in show. What's guiding me in this is the impact on them. I know that a monument to hate is not going to keep us any safer documented. This White House has been criminalising vilifying immigrants, but I think of people in my district Stephanie Pineda from Salvador, she is a sophomore UMass Boston. She's a dreamer. Her father's asylum seeker and her mother TPS holder, and I think her story really does speak to the intersection -ality and the complexity of what we need to address in the larger issue when it comes to compassionate and comprehensive immigration reform. So wall will not make us any safer in the Massachusetts seventh. In fact, a lot of people make this about the border communities, but there is a trickle down impact. So the district that I represented fifty three percent people of color. Almost forty percent foreign born and we've seen an increase of ice detainees by fifty percent. And they are asylum seekers, they pose no risk or threat to us these children and families, and there has been an increase in last two years. We now have three thousand detainees in our federal facilities in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. And so I took a no vote as did nineteen other Democrats in the house and five in the Senate on this package because it it emboldens what has been a rogue agency with any little note count ability oversight emboldened by racist policies, and you are oversight government reform committee should be head of ice come before your committee and de believe that I should take a budget cut. Absolutely. That's why voted no, we should not be a bowling this rogue racist agency should be eliminated. I think that is where we need to land. Ultimately. In the meantime, not one more dollar. We. Should be decreasing funding, not increasing funding. And that's why took that no vote. What would humane in Thane immigration policy? What would a deal like that? Look like in your view would not barter or pit against one group against the other. It would be something that is holistic that provides a pathway to citizenship for TPS holders for for Dhaka recipients for dreamers and also for Silom seekers to you think that there will be accountability. At some point. I think what a lot of people wonder is all of these children will than twenty seven hundred children. We don't really know how many because apparently the government is lost count taken from their parents. But government, the Trump administration is now saying, well, we're not sure we can even give them all back would it. What accountability conscionable I mean? And so thanks to the leadership of our chairman Elijah Cummings on oversight. I look forward to. That hearing and are trying to get to the bottom of this some conscionable. The only national emergency really is a humanitarian crisis and also the crisis that was created by this federal shutdown, which was completely avoidable. This has been a waste of taxpayer time and money. This is someone who ran on a platform of America first, and it seems that by his definition that means holding the American worker and family and immigrant hostage. The best predictor of the future is the past. And I think that I have proven themselves to be untrustworthy very quickly. We're out of time. There was also a vote in the house representatives to defend the war him and take the United States out of that conflict that yes, absolutely. And do you think that do you think the United States is is over extended the Middle East? Should we get out of for instance, Afghantistan and do less? Yes. I think I think we are again this begs a larger discussion, but I do believe that ultimately, we should be reducing not only military intervention, but our military budget. There are many of the things that we need to address here and this nation, and and I am proud that. In the midst of even a shutdown that this class has continued to government we had the first hearings to tackle a real gun. Bill eight years hearing on homelessness the first hearing on on voting rights specifically. To make election day federal holiday, so we're continuing to do the work of the American people. I think anyone would argue this is one of the most consequential freshman class, at least that I've seen in a very very long time and precedent in every way, and ultimately unprecedented change, absolutely absolutely, an incredibly diverse very impressed by Presley. Thank you for being here. Then you'd love to have you back you. All right. Thank you very much more Amdo after the break. I wanna do it faster. I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn't need to do this. But I'd rather do it much faster. Welcome back to AM joy. Donald Trump has already undermined his own argument for declaring a national emergency. But that might not matter to his followers because he's also pushing another lie about the border wall that he promised Mexico would pay for that. A lot of wall already exists. I don't know how to do it for the election. I've already done a lot of wall for the election. Twenty twenty. Trump also made a notable tweak to his signature campaign catchphrase on Monday during a magazine rally in El Paso, he now has a new slogan. It's not build the wall. But finished the wall. See magic implication, being of course, that construction on Trump's Boorda walls already begun. Today. We started a big beautiful wall right on the wheel. Now, you really mean finish that wall because we built a lot. That is true. However, the crowd appeared to be accepting their re education with enthusiasm. Join me now Dana Millbank the Washington Post. Green jump year move on dot org. Elliott style of above the law dot com and Republican strategist Rick Wilson, data Uber columnist you're in the business of persuasion. This is an interesting twist. I've been on with Chris as a fair number where we've said to one another. I don't know what Trump is say there already is a wall. He could get out of this easily his followers believe it. And now he's doing it. Angie's listens to you from giving him some other advice. You know, he actually at one point said exactly what's going on there. He said, we are renovating wall. So it sounded like, you know, it's going to be the Trump Tower, El Paso or something like that. So he did sort of acknowledge what had happened. And he said, well, we've renovated all the wall. There is and now we'd like to renovate some other wall. So what's interesting is if you give them forty seven minutes like they did yesterday. He's going to say a few things that are true. So he did actually acknowledge what what the situation was tween the fifth challenge. I think for the activism around this. And you mentioned in the last hour that there's going to be activism from move on to to oppose this. But the reality is there is not going to be all your. I mean, the thing is is that the protesters were going to go out on Monday are protesting thing. Donald Trump wants to do the he cannot do it isn't going to happen. How do you how do you deal with that reality? I think. So what we're doing on Monday with the protest. It's really the power grab. Right. It's the unconstitutional behavior of Donald Trump illegal behavior of Donald Trump in sending a message also not just Donald Trump. But to the Republicans as well. And so that's what that is about. I mean, we have a president who thinks he's above the law. And so we have to make that really clear and people are still energized. Right. There's still wanting to fight as we're going into twenty twenty as we're going into other elections that are coming up even in twenty nineteen. So I think it is really important, and we have to make sure that we let them know that folks are paying attention. We're not sleeping. We are angry, and we're going to let our voices be heard. So that's one part of it too. But I think the reason the reason why Donald Trump this is working is you have Fox News who is his propaganda. Who is actually a voice for him. That's pushing this information out you have Republicans who are not stopping him who are allowing him to do all of these awful things and say these things and not letting letting him get away with it. So he has it's not just him. He has to echo chambers. That's helping him get to that get get to that. And also he's thinking even when he was at the conference excuse me the press conference yesterday, he's thinking twenty twenty. He's thinking politics that finish the wall that came from his campaign manager chanted chanted firs Donald Trump followed and corrected them. Right. He corrected the audience know what they wanted to say Bill. The was like, no it's finished the wall. Right. And so he's thinking he wants a fight. And I think a lot of this for him is I wanna fight, and I want to have this kind of finish the wall. The wall has to be made thing it might campaign. Look good Corinne set above the law, which brings me to from above dot com. The thing about it too. Is that Donald Trump has taken a fictional thing? A thing that was just a campaign slogan that now his base like, oh, we actually want you to do it. Like, you said it in your campaign, and yet was just actually wanted to be real now he's about to go to court on it. We're fighting over a metaphor. And I don't understand why we're so obsessed with the idiots who believe in the metaphor the three seven forty percent of people who believe whatever Donald Trump is going to say, they're gone. They're lost their zombies now and every day we try to figure out what's the cure for Samis. Right. There is no cure. They're done. All right. We have to stop them from infecting everybody else. And the way that we stop them from an we stopped this zombie disease from infecting everybody else that we have to stop amplifying the lies that are told by Donald Trump. He should never be put on live. He should only on on a thirty second delay. And there's gotta be somebody in like a box in box under him. Just like if there were interpreting sign language to explain to people that he is lying in real time. Every time he lives we have to. That's the only way to kind of have to kind of cauterize the wound that is Donald Trump and his supporters and. Worry about the people aren't infected yet. But the the problem with doing that Rick Wilson is that not only is this thirty percent or so of the adult population of the United States are people who vote who manage to get the White House. They managed to take the White House. They are now essentially governing the United States, and they are not just being pulled around by Donald Trump in a wagon. They're being pulled around by people like Ann Coulter. I and Trump is fighting these people to Trump is not just responding to Fox News and doing what they tell him to do. He's also in an inter locution with them. So that they are actually making policy in this country. So they're not it's hard to ignore it when the policies being made can I play just a little bit of Donald Trump talked about Ann Coulter. And then in culture talk back to him. Coulter. I don't know her. I hardly know her haven't spoken to her in way over a year. I like her, but she's off the reservation, but anybody that knows her understands that. Forget the fact that he's digging his own grave. This is just look the only national. He is that our president is in India and Rick. She also tweeted, please drop the line finish the wall signs. The reality is Donald Trump can't pull off the thing that Chris Hayes, and I said he should just do because she won't let him she won't let him get away with there's already a wall. She really does want to wall done. I think I join most of America and saying that an cultures tears tastes delicious. This is someone who you know. This is somebody who proved the point that Donald Trump is terrible negotiating with the Ponant s-, and he's even worse than go to negotiating with his own allies. They put him in a box. He can't escape from. They understand that that their code wasn't and culture and her ilk, they wanted an actual physical wall fifty feet of concrete with lasers and robot. Alligators they're never gonna get it. And they thought that Trump would somehow have this sort of desk X Maka the trick that he would cause congress to bend to his will. And it never was going to happen. So he's gotten himself in a box where on his on his extreme. Right. You have the Coulter's the Hannity's Limbaugh's who who have fed and percolator this belief in his audience that he's the greatest negotiator ever. And on the other hand, you have their strong feeling that we've got to stop any Brown person from. North of the Rio Grande, and so they end up putting Trump in this terrible position. He cannot extricate himself from it at all do they want it badly enough to watch their fellow conservatives ranchers in the in Texas, get their land sees they. Okay. The the Republican base with eminent domain. Look, the Republican base does not believe in the things that conservatives like me, maybe it's still fashioned. But I thought that the part of being a conservative was that you didn't want the power of the state to impose overly on the on the rights of individuals, including their property rights and the rule of law. But in this case, these guys are ready to bulldoze a five mile wide strip from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico for Trump's wall damn the consequences to private property owners along the border and Dana. I feel like that is the next fight. We're going to have because most of the money that Donald Trump steals from these military construction products products going to go to lawyers is going go domain fight. I mean, he's going to be fighting people over their land and still not able to build a wall. If it gets that far, I think I think it's more likely a transfer from the military and destroy complex to the legal industry complex, it probably never even gets that far. But it is true. We remember that old Canard about Trump supporters took him seriously. But not. Literally. No, they actually did literally. And this is the problem. He's gonna come up against it's on the wall. It's also on the economy. They're going say, wait a second coal jobs haven't come back. The steel jobs haven't come back. I mean, he can create an illusion that manufacturing is returning. But eventually people realize that and I think we're reaching that point, you know, he's gonna wanna pivot to this new slogan that we keep America great again. But this is running smack dab into his need to create a new crisis every moment. So on the one hand we have all these crises, and everybody's getting murdered and sold drugs to and we have already made America great. Right. Exactly. The wall needs to be built by national emergency. But the walls already built we we need to keep America. Great again, but you're not getting your tax refund. That's probably oh, I've created a revolution in the coal industry. But the coal jobs are still going. I mean at a certain point Donald Trump's fiction and reality meet, even if his supporters refuse to accept it. Right. This is what he does. He throws whatever he throws whatever he can out there. And he sees what sticks. It is the confusion. It is the kind of governing and policy by confusion. And this is something that Donald Trump has done for a really long time. And this is the place that he's the most comfortable at doing. He's living in an alternative universe. And he's managed to bring along that one third of the population to bring of his base, I should say to bring the long to believe in this crazy universe that he's living in. But there's something else that he's doing. I think he did this yesterday with the press conference. He creates a show he create. Confusion. And what are we not talking about? We're not talking about how terrible terrible negotiator. He is how much of a bad deal that he got how he's not the art of the deal and that he's a con, man. So he's trying to also void those types of conversations as well by throwing stuff and confusing. All of us wonder, Rick how long it works at a certain point do his supporters not realize they didn't get money back in their tax return to not do. They not see reality that's outside their window or are. They literally just willing to accept the reality. That's on TV. And if the Fox News folks break from Trump who gets those people is it Trump, or is it Coulter. Well, I think right now, the the Fox News people have been fed up pretty steady diet for a long time of on FOX, which has a tone that helps set the stage for Trump, which is this apocalyptic. The the Muslims are coming the Brown. People were coming run for the hills. They're going to kill us all in a lot of this coverage. Very lurid sort of coverage particularly in the border. But I don't think FOX can afford to truly break from Trump. This is their business model. Now, this is a very symbiotic relationship between the two enterprises Trump needs them, and they need Trump. It's uncomfortable. And it's weird, but they sort of stuck with each other this point, and I think the difficulty to navigate those reality gap is that that coal mining is not coming back in this country. Still jobs are not coming back in this country. If they are coming back, they're going to be done by robots not by Trump supporters, and the sort of cruel style. Jay, he's always pedaled the people of a world from the nineteen fifties that so perfect and everybody can work a high school education could get a job and pay for a family to retirement and vacation house. It didn't never existed, and it doesn't exist now. But I don't think the the time windows long enough to disillusion these people away from Trump. They part of what they're with part of what they're involved with the Trump is they've given up on the system they've given up on. Erica. And they just want an avatar for all their vengeance is and their resentments and their and their their feuds with people that don't like and Elliott match slap whose wife Mercedes worked for Donald Trump seemed to preview the next thing that these folks are gonna want. He said tomorrow will be the first day that the president had toll fully operational confirms Torney general let that sink in. This is about William bar Muller will be gone soon is the next demand from the right wing media people who run Donald Trump that he that. He get Muller out. Yeah. That's that's been the along the Whitaker crazy era just said to just help to set the bar, so low that bark and come in do Trump's dirty work and get away with it. I mean, I guess I disagree with with with with the thought that at some point the Trump base will realize they've been had because they haven't been had because they were never in it for these small. Government conservative principles of Rick Molson, or George well or the Cato Institute they were in it for the bigotry and the sexism, and it's the bigotry and the sexism that Trump keeps delivering they're going to be for Bill bar to stop the investigation. Not because they have any conception or care about the rule of law, but because they know of bar star stops investigation, then Trump can keep delivering on the bigotry sexism that he has for two years. So they're not again, they're just never coming back and for the party at the elite end the tax cuts for the super rich because he definitely delivered on that Santa Millbank green jump here Elliott style. Rick wilson. Thank you guys. Have a great Saturday and coming up, we'll tell you how Andrew McCabe new book has Donald Trump completely on edge. Thanks. I was speaking to the man who had just run for the presidency, and and won the election for the presidency, and who might have done so with the aid of the government of Russia. Our most formidable adversary on the world stage, and that was something that troubled me, greatly Andrew McCabe is the latest former Trump administration figure to release a tell all book McCabe took over the FBI when his boss, Jim Komi was fired. And immediately had concerns about the president and his interview with CBS McCabe said that he took steps to launch obstruction of Justice and counterintelligence investigations soon. After his initial meeting with Trump. I was very concerned that I was able to put the Russia case on absolutely solid ground in an indelible fashion. That were I removed quickly reassigned or fired that the case could not be closed or vanish in the night without a trace twenty now MSNBC legal analyst Paul Butler and court TV acre Sima ir. This is one of our favorite pairing. The pollen theme which starts now. My friend, you now former acting director of the FBI saying not only what you just heard in the open. But also from the Washington Post review of McCain's book this during an Oval Office briefing, July of twenty seventeen Trump refused to believe US intelligence reports that North Korea had test-fired intercontinental ballistic missile Trump dismissed the missile launch as a hoax McCabe rights. He thought that North Korea did not have the capability to launch Mitchell's missiles, he said, he knew this because bladder Putin told him so this is a man who has secret meetings was leading Putin and hides the transcripts who came in the FBI launched a counterintelligence investigation to see if he was an agent of foreign power at a certain point, there's just a preponderance of the evidence that this this person might have done something very wrong. You've been skeptical of it. But what do you think as the the evidence accumulates? Yes. Yes. Evidence has accumulated. So why I keep asking what I don't understand is why Robert Muller hasn't started the indictment process that is what I don't understand. But also, and I'm going to bet that Paul Butler is going to agree with me today that you have to look at Andrew McCabe and look everything about him to assess his credibility. He was fired the day before his pension benefits were supposed to start. Right. So you have to look at the motivation. He has in saying all of this stuff against Donald Trump as well as Jeff Sessions. Now, you also have to look at that. I report which points to four four instances where Andrew McCabe lacked candor when he was being interviewed by investigators. So you have to look at all of that to assess this credibility wasn't pulled wasn't there. An aspect of punishment in in getting that was Andrew McCabe allege that Donald Trump. Added to punish him by firing. And also punish his wife. Donald Trump off on his wife that he asked McCabe who McCabe folded for all of these probably illegal unethical to be sure comments from the president. What the thing is. It's not just my cave. It's also Rosenstein, and so what we have. I don't know. What's more scary? The fact that top level officials are concerned that the president might be a double agent or the top level officials are concerned that the president does not have the intellectual capacity to hold office. And here's the thing. We kind of already suspect this many of us, but we don't see the president every day. And now we have people who work with the president every single day who and again for the director of the FBI he has access to a lot of secret information, and he's conservative there might be a credible evidence to suggest that again, either the president is Russian asset. We need to start an investigation. To make sure that's not true. Which by the way is the mother investigation that's still going on. Or again that the president the most powerful person in the world is incompetent to hold off. And so and Pell mice still going on it doesn't these things take time. I would call for mother how come on Paul enough. You a federal prosecutor come on. Why are we taking so long? All I'm saying is this. If Muller starts the indictment process, right then Trump's people can follow an injunction based upon the department of Justice guidelines and policy, and then take it to the courts. This should not be taking this long, and we can't rely on the twenty fifth amendment because for that to be invoked. We would need vice president Pence and majority of the cabinet, which doesn't seem likely I can't see vice president Pence going against President Trump. Let's get a bit of the transfer to the part of the interview about this. Just this very thing that you just brought up and this was the question of of. Of whether or not the cabinet members of thought about invoking, the twenty fifth amendment McCabe says discussions of a twenty fifth amendment was simply rod Rosenstein, raise the issue and discussed it with me in the context of thinking about how many other cabinet officials might support such an effort Rosenstein was CBS Rosenstein was actually openly talking about there was a majority on the cabin who would vote to remove the president McCabe says that's correct county votes possible vote. I mean, we're we're talking about the cabin having actual discussion about removing this man for incompetence by the twenty fifth amendment. The department of Justice has not denied this, by the way, the only thing it said is that Rosenstein didn't have the thority to invoke the twentieth amendment. We'll right. Nobody said he did the concern is again that he has credible information based on his contact with the president every day to think, well, maybe I should be wearing a why or in because this person might be compromised by the Russians or maybe we. To really think about if mentally the president is pudding, not just the nation, but the whole world at risk, and the reason that he has not been indicted yet is as you know, the deal employee. Handbook says that setting. I'm sorry. You sound like Donald Trump. You don't want to hear the truthful. It's the law me. Say that the president kept me. Now, you're wrong, Paul. It's not the law. It is a handbook like my handbook says, hey, there's no smoking in the bathrooms of my office. It's a handbook it is not the law. And like, I said if you want to challenge the law, you take it to court may help him because you're right, actually, see my with you. It's not the law. It is a regulation and really all those is sitting president can't be try while he's an office. It actually doesn't mean that they're he's not indicted so Muller for all we know there could be. In the DC courthouse waiting for the day that the president leaves the oval could that be possible that there is a there might be a sealed indictment because the Muller investigation is actually in the purview of the executive branch, which is different from a special independent counsel that like we had with Ken Starr is it possible. But the because he understands the sensitivities involved to your obviously is sealed indictment against Donald Trump. I think it's a great point that you're making and I do agree there could be a sealed indictment. I just think that if there was a sealed indictment there would be car Spahn, ding subpoenas, and we may have received that information by league or otherwise. Because as we all know everybody who leaves the Trump White House writes a book dead. They absolutely do. Okay. Laugh. I'm gonna give Paul Pablo last just because he's sitting next to me on said, what's the next shoe to drop? Now had these really incredible revelations about Paul Manafort with the secret. The passing of meetings at the cigar club. What's next Donald Trump junior? I'll see. Donald we'll get indicted for Butler, just the younger one. Okay. And then we'll bring you guys back to debate. Again, we love you. It's our favorite thing. Iron Paul Butler. Thank you very much next up yet. Another mass shooting puts a clear focus on the real actual national emergency in America. That's next. Talk about national emergency. Let's talk about today. The one year anniversary of another manifestation of the epidemic of gun violence in America. That's a national emergency. Why don't you declare that emergency? Mr president. I wish he would Thursday was the one year anniversary of the mass shooting at a high school in parkland, Florida that killed seventeen students and faculty and sparked a movement on Friday within hours of Trump's declaration of national emergency over a fictional border crisis the country, yet another mass shooting when a gunman killed five people and manufacturing plant and Aurora. Illinois doing now is Kyle Korver activists and student at Marjory stoneman Douglas high school in parkland, and Fred gutten Burg whose daughter Jamie was among those killed in the parkland shooting one year ago and thank you both for being here. And I will reiterate and renew my condolences one year after this shooting that really shocked the country, and I want to go to you first. We actually just met at the Trayvon Martin foundation. We happened to meet on my way out. And and I said to you, then we'll say to you now that the students at parkland, the activists that came out of parkland have been some of the most impressive people I've ever met. You guys have really made a difference in one of the differences. You've made is that we've just had for the first time in decades House Democrats have the House Judiciary committee approved two Bill that would expand federal background checks for firearm purchases. I think it's the first time in something like twenty years that we've had anything move out of the house on gun reform. So you guys did that talk a little bit about why you guys have decided to stick with this activism one year on. You know, one thing I think is very important about the bipartisan background checks between nineteen right? Is the fact that they focused on the mental health aspect of gun violence is something that was largely ignored. We we on the onset of this this movement. We notice that people mainly focused on banning particular types of weapons assault weapons bump, stocks sort. But I really saw that as you know, half of the equation. I thought it was absolutely absurd that we had to focus on, you know, people were just thinking that assault weapons. The only issue when we read the headlines, no tag with a lines. Like, he was he was really stressed out. He was really angry. You know, he was depressed. And I'm really I'm just tired of seeing that, you know, be written down as an excuse for why someone carried out a horrific act violence. I mean, I think that actually has to stop, you know, and so about my own activism. I started the societal reform corporation to put mental health curriculums into schools and. We initially pushed for a mandatory mental health creek into schools directly. But like New York in Virginia did, but that that would have to be approved by the governor. And so that's that was a a very difficult undertaking to to go about with. So we decided to go more directly to the students and. Bring it to schools by after school programs and so. Yeah. It was. Because we really really realize that there was no one-size-fits-all approach to meditation in my mental health every experience had to be tailored to the individual. And so I figured that introduced by clubs and after school programs would be the best way to reach students in a collaborative environment because when you reach people in a collaborative environment, you can it's automatic tailor-made situation. There's there's nothing better than a group activity to get people involved in mental health and make it seem like it's something cool. And he's taking ties it and makes it reach the average person. Yeah. Fred you at the state of the union address said if you didn't speech you wrote about it. And I I was at the state of the union I shouldn't have been, and you know, I think it's a very good point is that you have this. This combination of they're always have been stresses in teenage teenagers and young people and adults people are stressed out. People are probably more stressed out these days than than than than they have been in a long time. But then people. In that state have ready access to firearms. I mean, they're just they're they're everywhere that ubiquitous so what do we do about it? I mean, you you have in the state of Florida a lot of opposition to doing anything on gun reform. But you have people who are stressed and people who are going through a lot as Kaya said. And then you have this access to guns. Well, couple of things number one. I'm so proud of the kids who have stepped up and have said we need to grow up in this world. And we want to be safe. I also want to also call out all of the parents out of parkland myself, and the others who have put aside every bit of our lives to only focus on this. And I think that's where it starts doing something about it. It starts with the commitment by the kids and the grownups to say enough is enough. We will not accept this any longer. It starts with people actually aknowledging that gun violence actually requires a gun because what you do have is many who wanna just look at this and call violence. Well, it's gun violence, and we need to deal with the reality of that we need to talk about mental health. But if we're going to we need to also have a series discussion about what it's going to cost because it's a complicated, expensive prob. Them as a country we need to get behind it. I am. So proud of what happened in the house this week. I'm so proud of those who committed to doing something about this during this campaign cycle got used to saying a lot. We're going to fire. Those who will not do something about this issue that we will hire those who will will that happened. And when people get fired for not doing their job. Everyone else around them notices. It's going to happen in the Senate next. We'll pass commonsense gun safety legislation in the house. This term. It may hit a wall in the Senate, and it will flip the Senate if that happens. Yeah. And one of the one of the ways that that happens is is that people come out and vote and start voting on this on these issues on issues like this. And there has been a study that was done by March for our lives showed that there was a ten percent increase in youth turnout in two thousand eighteen compared. The previous midterm election in twenty fourteen. So young people your age. I don't know if you're voting age yet, but are starting to vote around these issues. Yeah. Because we realize that voting is not something that, you know, because before people thought, oh, you know, my parents vote, you know, so it had like this is kind of stigma of old age attached to the people who are are elders. Do then we realize that we're rooting on issues that you know, that directly affect us. You know, we're voting on issues that save lives. And we realized that in order to save those lives we had people that stood up for our values and were willing to protect our generation to protect our future. So we usually more saw voting as an investment in the security and tranquillity of our children's future in our future going forward. So, you know, I think that, you know, with the onset of March for our lives, and, you know, my own efforts, it really showed a lot of young people that you know. Hey voting isn't just for for our parents. It isn't just for my grandparents it isn't just for people who. You know who were active in their community for everybody. You know? Everyone's right. According to their citizenship. Yeah. So we, you know, our activism really reinvigorated America and gave everyone a new sense of political efficacy, and I'm really happy to see that. Yeah. And fred. Same time, we still we just saw another mass shooting in Illinois. There's a tracker for the number of school shootings. And in according to this. This NBC's actually tracking this in twenty eighteen thirty people were killed fifty people were injured in eight school shootings on average. There was a school shooting every forty five days as a dad who lost your precious daughter in one of these shootings. How I mean, I don't know how to get the country to stay focused on this. Can you can you help us out? I mean, how do we what do we do? Well, listen joy. I think the country is focused on it. And I heard that you talked about Florida earlier Florida's is a state did vote for gun safety where they elected Nikki, freed Commissioner of agricultural consumer services that was election that you one across the state. She was the only person who ran strong on a gun safety message and she won voters want. This. Our elected leaders made. Be a step behind because they may still be paying too much attention to a gun lobby that is getting less and less attention every single day, but voters want this and how do we fix this? We keep on showing up at the polls. And we keep voting for it. We keep raising our voices we keep using social media. The facts are we have a national emergency in this country. Right now, we do it's called gun violence forty thousand people per year, while I am talking to you this interview, I am certain somebody is learning their victim of gun violence. Somebody is bearing victim of gun violence and somebody's planning a funeral for victim of gun violence that is a national emergency. And we must keep on saying it, and we must keep on forcing our legislators to react to it. Yeah. Kaikoura bar and Fred gotten the students in parents. They really the park land family has really risen up. And you guys are all national leaders on this issue. Thank you, both very. Much. Thank you. Joe you. Thank you so much coming up. We'll Republicans the sheep who follow Donald Trump off a cliff. We'll discuss next. I don't think it's a good idea. I think it'd be a terrible idea. Hope he doesn't do it. I don't think he should do that. I think it's a bad precedent? Is the precedent that this sets the idea of an emergency because always worry about that abuse with future presidents? I think that's dubious from a constitutional perspective. And I hope that the president will not go that route. Even before Donald Trump declared national emergency to seize taxpayer funds for his border wall. Members of his own party warned him. It was a bad idea. And now back with me is Rick Wilson. Okay. Rick Lewis play you a few Republicans who say that this NASA -mergency thing is is the bee's knees. Take a listen. I know the Republicans have some unease about it. No matter what they say because the president can declare an emergency on something that he is created as an emergency and luge in that he wants to convey just think of what a president you look at the pros that having to take these kinds of measures. It's because congress has failed this president and the American people the president feels very strong. We have a crisis at the border. I agree with him. He's committed to finishing the job in these in the us, whatever constitutional and statutory authority the s to do. Okay. So the first first couple, of course, was Pelosi saying go ahead. Make my day. The next democrat that comes into declared national emergency with with our values and something on gun reform or or maybe climate change. Then you've got these three Republicans saying go for it, Mr President, what is happening here. This is the this is not the right kind of part of the point of view. Part of this part of this is this is the Republican party has been completely redefined with this with this living in the immediate moment philosophy. They're living in the now, they're wanting to try to make sure that Donald Trump doesn't tweet something mean about them or that Fox News put them on blast because unless they're pleasing Donald Trump, unless there's unless they're saying that Trump is the tallest handsome. Smartest guy in the room on every single issue. They fear every moment of their lives. They're gonna get nuked and they're not wrong. This is a party that is redefined itself about being the trumpets and the Trump driven party. And so he can do anything joy the guy could eat a live baby on the White House lawn, and they'd be like finally someone alive baby. It's it's completely revolutionary moment. Where the party collapsed on itself. They don't believe in anything anymore. They have no philosophy. No underpinning values, except for what makes Trump happy thing is for that to work, and I talked to Michael about this. Well, we had this conversation in the braider. That only works if the if you must stay elected, right? He's it that these folks don't have any other ideas for career options. I mean is that the worst thing in the world if you don't keep your job? I mean, if you don't keep your your seat in congress because if you if you literally say, my values matter more than the seat, you wouldn't do any of this. Well, sure, I mean there there were forty folks last time that reside approximately a little more than forty four who resigned from congress who left who got out of there. And a lot of those people were the ones who said I can't swallow this poison pill. I can't do this. I can't make myself get up in the morning and pretend that Donald Trump is normal sane or even you know. Arguably safe to be around when unmedicated this is a guy who they recognize the danger both morally, and politically, and they left the people that are still in the house. A lot of them say the vast majority of them now they fall into one of two camps. They are either true believers or they are pure opportunists. And that's a bad combination in politics as a general rule, and it should've taught them something that forty of their colleagues left chose not to run again, and they were replaced by forty Democrats. And a lot of other folks went down in flames because they towed the line on Trump and Trump is even districts in areas where it's political poison. So he's had a great impact. The Democrats could not have paid Donald Trump enough money to destroy the Republican party more thoroughly in the house. Rick Wilson, author of everything Trump touches dies. I mean, if it creates a great book, it's not only have funny title. But it's actually quite a good book. What am I I on Twitter way back in the day? Fight on Twitter. Rick years ago years. Thank you very much. Take care. More A M joy after the break yet sticking breakdown. Or not you know, what I'm not gonna take a break. I'm gonna I'm gonna just decide not to take a break because there's something more important for me to do right now. There's a person in this room right now who happens to be having their twentieth. Anniversary with this fine network. Her name is Julie Pearl embarrassing her right now, but putting run television wave to the cameras Julie. So your mom can see congratulations on your twenty years. Julie is so much fun. We always have a great time. We come out to the DC. She's very welcoming to us. We love her so happy anniversary, my friend Jobe back tomorrow at ten Eastern High. It's more and so Donal if you love MSNBC where your heart on your sleeve, you can gear up with t shirts. Hoodies hats and more from the last word and all of your favorite MSNBC shows you can shop now at MSNBC store dot com.
AP One Minute Headlines Jan 21 2019 15:00 (EST)
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