2 Episode results for "James Baldwin William F. Buckley"
Revisiting Baldwin vs. Buckley
"Hello Paul McCartney here. My new picture bouquet ground dude is out now and it's raided by me it's about a grandfather granddad. Grand Dude who uses this is margie compass to whisk his grandchildren away on adventures around the world. A lot of fun writing in the raising it on. I hope you enjoy too. You can download it. Start listening today. Hey Grandma how James Baldwin and William F Buckley end up on a stage together in one thousand nine hundred sixty five at Cambridge University to debate one another on Race Nicholas Koby here to talk about his book. The fire is upon us. What's it like growing up black and gay and the south poet and now L. Memoir Ist Sii Jones will be here to talk about his book? How we fight for our lives Concepcion de Leon will give us an update from the literary world last? We'll talk about what we the and the wider world are reading this book view. PODCAST from the New York Times. I'm Pamela Paul. Nicholas Cola is here in the studio to talk about his new book. The fire is upon us. James Baldwin William F. Buckley junior and the debate over race in America. His two previous books were the essential Douglas and Abraham Lincoln and Liberal Democracy Nicholas. Thanks for being here. Thanks thanks for having me. I'm honored to be here all right. This is a change of subject for you why this book. This book emerged through Baldwin. I was invited to write essay about Baldwin and I devoted voted the few months just reading everything could get my hands on. And then I dug into the Youtube Archives of all these video Baldwin and I found the debate with Buckley and I became transfixed was just such a dramatic moment of these two men who embodied movements in a way and they have them on the international stage clashing. I was just sort of became mildly obsessed with it and so I wrote that essay Using the debate as a framing device in is I worked on the ESA I kept thinking. There's there's a book in here and then that book kind of grew and grew and grew to a joint intellectual biography. They're born about a year apart from each other and so I thought I could sort of weave their intellectual biographies against the backdrop of the the rise of the civil rights and conservative movements. I have to say you know word favor of Youtube. All of these things are on there and you can go online and Google Baldwin Buckley debate and it comes right up up. I just want to play a quick clip from that to be. This is a bit. We have a civil rights bill. Now we had an amendment the Fifteenth Amendment nearly one hundred years ago I hate to see them again like an Old Testament prophets whether the amendment was not honor. Then I don't have any reason to believe in the Civil Rights Bill. We'll we'll be on it now and after all one's been there since before you know. A lot of people got their if one has got to proved once title to the land isn't four hundred years enough one hundred years at least three worlds later on will play play another clip from Buckley. But let's start with something you just mentioned Nicholas. which is that? These two men were born. Only fifteen months. Apart in New York City could not have had more different circumstances in terms of their births and upbringing. Let's start with James Baldwin Baldwin born in August nineteen twenty four in Harlem and he's the oldest of nine children and Baldwin describes his childhood as being one the Chili marked by domination His experience is is one in which he has. There's all sorts of individual people in his life police officers landladies landlords that he's seizes is enforcing kind of boundaries Andres on his his growth as a as a human being and he sees his parents victimized by racial oppression by economic anxiety by a lack of economic opportunity and so Baldwin I'm describes growing up in Harlem and is auto biographical writings and a really powerful way of of really a set of circumstances in which he feels so limited as a human being. I mean he has to try to figure out way to find some modicum of power to fight back against the suppression so Baldwin is somebody who eventually finds his lover. He calls it in language words. He's obsessed with books you know from a very young age reading everything and get his hands on trying to find ways in which to make sense of his experience through books and then he begins writing at a very young age and actually actually devote himself to writing often. He can in the ends up becoming a young minister. His father was a lay pentecostal preacher in Haarlem storefront churches and so Baldwin becomes the young minister at the age of fourteen and has really taken by the power of language to connect him to his congregation and although he leaves the church by seventeen he remains a preacher's entire life including the ninety debates. Buckley it really is sermon. Tell us what was his formal education like so Baldwin. was somebody who you know. He says that he was not the best of students students. But that he you know because he had a hard time staying interested in a lot of the things he was learning in school so within a lot of ways he was not died act but he had the opportunity a couple of really really important teachers in his life and those teachers encouraged him to apply for a program at dewitt Clinton high school and he he went to Clinton which of course is this story. Place it's produced to all sorts of important intellectual and political figures and so that experience was important because Baldwin at dewitt Clinton was able to work for the. The High School Literary magazine had some outlets outlet for his creative abilities but he was somebody who did not have an opportunity to go to college so in many ways. You know you sort of you. All people familiar Baldwin's writings assume that he has some sort of you. You know lead education. But but in fact he didn't he was somebody who was largely self educated and was really just a a student you know from a very early age. You know that that he died all right. That's it's a good moment to just pivot quickly to Buckley because we associate him so much with the institutions that he attended of course God and man at Yale but let's start start with his birth in New York City. Buckley is you know as I say at the beginning of the book He May as well been born in on a different planet. You know the same city but my as miserable been a different planet. Buckley really is somebody who was born into immense wealth so Buckley's father is somebody who made in lost and regained fortunes in the real estate and oil businesses. His mother is a comes from old money proud daughter of the confederacy. So I say that you know that his father had new money. His mother had old money. The keyword there's money and they. I used that money to provide their children with a very rich upbringing in a lot of ways and especially educationally ten children yet there were ten. Attendance goes both came from very large families. They did say one thing they have in common. The Buckley's had an estate in Sharon Connecticut known as Great Elm Forty seven Acre estate and they had a a elaborate homeschooling for their children so every subject under the Sun. They had live in tutors. That were there fulltime. They brought in part time tutors to cover. Every other subject to the Buckley's really devoted voted in and they were especially devoted to teaching their children in particular world view and so the Buckley's were taught a kind of they. Call it individualism. But it was really a kind of elitism. They were taught hot to be very suspicious of any form of collectivism socialism communism and the new deal policies of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. But they're also taught to be very suspicious of democracy. I'm they were taught taught that some people are fit to rule others are fit to be ruled and they were among those who were to rule of course and so Buckley really he'd ever really desires to become his father he he doesn't want to follow him into business but he really wants to devote his life to defending the world view that his father taught him on his mother taught him and so in that hierarchy household whether they're todd these values of hierarchy those values thoroughly racial is is one of the key themes the book and so- Buckley's racial politics in many ways you know emerged at a very young age and he sustains those throughout his life so it's interesting that both Buckley and Baldwin for very different reasons are suspicious of certain aspects of American democracy. That's true that's true. And it's it's these moments you know now in the in the book when I say there is kind of surprising there's some surprising overlaps where you know Baldwin and Buckley Ha of crowd the suspicion of liberalism. They have some suspicion of democracy mcreavy they have some suspicion of the capacity of law needs to bring about social change but those moments were there the the there's overlaps very different reasons why they take those positions and so oh I think but in that overlap we can we can learn something about our politics and also in the the reasoning that they you know both of them used to arrive at those conclusions can really help us make sense of our political moment I mean is it in those moments of auto alignment that the tension is greatest in terms of their differences. I think that's true. I mean I think maybe not. There's definitely a lot of tensions just running through The the story but I think that those moments are you know really fascinated me one example. Is that Baldwin and Buckley are both great critics northern hypocrisy on race. You know they they they will often say you know the one line that's uses the Jim Crow has the north simply more sophisticated Baldwin. Say that sort of thing and Buckley would see that sort of thing. Of course Buckley's point point. Was He would say that to get northerners to lay off of the south and Balden would say that to get all of us delay into the north right and so those moments I think are are especially powerful to think about. Okay why is it the Baldwin is looking at somebody you know particular politician that he really does not trust and Buckley's looking at saint politician. It does not trust that person. They have these radically different different reasons for that distrust and I think that's that's really informative for us all right. Let's come from their childhood circumstances right to nineteen sixty five the year in which this debate the subject have your book. The fire is upon US takes place. Where is James Baldwin at this point in his life and career? Nineteen sixty five Baldwin's really at the height of his fame name so Baldwin had published his first novel in Nineteen fifty three and he he'd published by then three novels go tell in the Mountain Giovanni in another country so you establish himself as a fiction writer but also then published several essay collections and in one thousand nine hundred sixty three the next time is published. And that's that's really a book that I mean Baldwin Star was already ascending but that that book sort of sent Baldwin to the height of literary fame I mean so. He's among the most famous writers in the world at that time in Baldwin's connection connection to the civil rights movement was was always a complicated one. I mean he describes himself as a witness in his first interactions with the Jim crow south or as a journalist he goes down to the south to cover. What's happening the black liberation struggle for particular magazines and publications and so Baldwin says my job is to write it all down but he of course feels in this sense of obligation to be go beyond writing it all down of course journalism always has kind of normative dimension to it but he he says you know? He spends a lot of his life if it's what he calls a transatlantic commuter living in Europe and living in the US but he feels a sense of obligation to to engage in the struggle and so by sixty three he's kind of identified as a kind of spokesman when he didn't like that label at all didn't like most labels but he really wants to eat engaged in this that both through his fiction and nonfiction writing. What he's really trying to do is provide his readers years with the sense of what the world looks like through the eyes of of a variety of people in the south and also elsewhere in the country who are in the midst of this struggle to change the country such really I Baldwin? It's up to them so at that moment. Sixty five Cambridge Baldwin's internationally famous. So those students that are packed into that union debating hall. They're really there to see Baldwin. Because Buckley hadn't quite achieved international fame yet all right. Let's talk about William F.. Buckley where is he. Nineteen sixty five in terms of his career. So Buckley by sixty five is second only only to Barry Goldwater in terms of a sort of face of the American conservative movement and Buckley had played really this outsized role in shaping what we now call the conservative movement. So Buckley in Nineteen fifty-five starts at National Review magazine which the idea the magazine was to try to do what progressive magazines had done in the first half of the twentieth century Maksim like the nation and the republic had done so much to shape. The American left and so- Buckley has idea that there's not really anything that we could call it an conservative movement a coherent conservative conservative movement. Fifty five so he has this idea to use a magazine to bring folks together a coalition Together and so he founds national review and very right at the same aim moment. He's founding national review. The civil rights movement the latest phase in the civil rights struggle is occurring the lynching of Emmett till the reaction to that the rest of Rosa parks the Montgomery Montgomery bus boycott. So Buckley is very consciously trying to shape conservative movement and he has to make a lot of decisions about how the conservative movement should react to the black liberation struggle. How influential Angela is the national review in nineteen sixty five? What's circulation like an WHO's reading in the national review is is a really powerful magazine in in by by sixty five? I mean it's a magazine like a lot of magazines at struggles over the years. You know that first decade but really the the role of national review plays I think is is Buckley kind of establishes himself as sort of gatekeeper for the the movement. He's trying to sort of as as one of my colleagues puts it edit conservatism. figure out who should be part of the coalition who should be left out and so he writes certain folks out of the movement like in Rand and eventually you know Robert Welsh and the John Birch Society. So Buckley is is really playing this role. People know that the magazine has. This is sort of outsized. Role in shaping the movement and figuring out who's allowed to participant. WHO's not and so the influence at national review by sixty five? There's no question it is the most. I recognized conservative Oregon. The country and definitely although Buckley did not get to play the role that he hoped to play in the goldwater campaign. You hope to be kind of liaison between the conservative of intellectual community in the in the campaign but he he still is playing kind of informal role as as a sort of somebody's promoted. He's a promoter of ideas as a popularizer of of conservative. Conservative ideas is one of his biographers. The Saint Paul of the conservative movement. He's really an evangelist right. He's not an originator of ideas but he's he's very good at spreading the idea. He's not even originate. Peter in this particular debate. We'll get to that. Let's just here quickly a clip of Buckley from this debate in America where the Negro community is concerned is. He's a very complicated. I urge those of you who have a WHO have An actual rather than purely ideologized interest in the problem them to read the book beyond the Melting Pot by professor laser. Also Co author of the lonely proud it problem when a Jewish intellectual who points the fact that the situation in America where the Negroes are concerned is extremely complex as a result result of an unfortunate conjunction of two factors one is the dreadful athletes to eventuate this nation by many individual American citizens results of their lack of that final and ultimate concern which some people are truly find agitate the other or is as a result of the failure of the Negro community itself. Do make certain issues which were made by other minority groups. During the American experience interesting you mentioned Barry Goldwater earlier because Barry Goldwater Strom Thurmond. Both of them were original. Choices says to be the person to debate Baldwin. What happened with with them? And and how did it end up. Being William F.. Buckley that was one of the first puzzles to solve was. How did this happen in the first place and there were? There really wasn't any detailed account that I was able to find the existing literature of like. How did these two guys end up there that night? So really and it kind of happened by accident. A lot of ways. The union was contacted. By Baldwin's publicist for this is. This is Cambridge Union. The Students Union at Cambridge University in England right so so Cambridge Union the oldest debating society in the world. They had just marked the one hundred fiftieth anniversary just weeks prior to the Buckley Baldwin Debate the union's contacted by a publicist for according books. Who is promoting the paperback release a Baldwin's third novel? It's look exactly all right. So the President of union was undergraduate. Student Peter Fullerton says as well. I can't host a book that this is a debating society. So what I can do is host a debate related to the themes of Mr Baldwin's writings. And so the they. I agree to that. And it's sort of an interesting sort of back story that I was able to uncover in the Baldwin Archives of Schaumburg in Harlem was really interesting the kind of back and forth between the agents and the publicist and so on they sort of agreed in principle that Baldwin common than the first idea that Fullerton had was to say you know. Invite somebody like Strom Thurmond. Somebody who's a devoted segregationists to debate Baldwin in fourteen. Doesn't remember exactly what the response was. But he knows he knows it was negative and invited Barry Goldwater who of course of course voted against the civil rights. Act was a different kind of skeptic of of the civil bright's revolution and so at some point there was a another student at Cambridge named Michael Toobin. Hot who had met Buckley nineteen sixty three and knew enough about him to know that he it was the perfect person. For this this role. He was a skilled debater. He was a critic of the Civil Rights Movement so they contacted Buckley who is on his annual ski vacation in Switzerland. And and asked if you'd come debate and he was not WanNa turn down any opportunity to debate and he had established imprinted he thought Baldwin was as he called him an eloquent menace and he was eager to take him on a it. Cambridge headed Baldwin about Buckley and going up against him. So there isn't as much evidence of Baldwin's kind of reflections on Buckley prior to the debate that I was able to discover ever. There's no question that the Buckley was on Baldwin's radar and Buckley was a sort of figure that Baldwin was eager to challenge in one of the things I talk about in the in the book is in nineteen sixty two Baldwin was invited onto the open. Mind television program to debate James Jackson Kilpatrick who is one of the country's leading salesman for segregation nation of very close friend and colleague. Buckley Buckley's Goto guys on race. And it was the kind of thing. Where a lot about Baldwin's friends handlers? Didn't want him to do it right. You should not sit across the table from segregationists you're gonNA dignify his views by your presence but Baldwin really felt an obligation to engage with people like Kilpatrick and he actually thought that people can Patrick and Buckley. They had a great deal of responsibility to bear in the racial violence. The racial nightmare is that something that people can watch on Youtube as well or somewhere in line. Is that still out there. It's a strange thing. The open mind has an incredible archive. You can actually watch shows going back to the fifties but they don't seem to have this one and so I I hope they're Recording of it. So what what's interesting is. In at the Schaumburg. They Baldwin kept a complete transcript of that encounter. It's another thing that hadn't really been written about very much and it's I mean it's an amazing mazing just reading. It is so powerful because it's right after the battle Miss Right after. James Meredith is attempting to register for classes at the University of Mississippi. And all hell breaks loose as you know there's violence and Baldwin begins the show. They're welcome to the show and Baldwin looks at Kilpatrick and says you think there's a difference between men like you write these sophisticated books and articles defending segregation and the people in those spree streets committed committing acts of violence and he says I hold usurp far more responsible than those people in the streets because they are caught in a web of delusion this delusion of white supremacy and you are weaving that web for purposes that have nothing to do with them and he says I accuse you betraying those white people in the south you are pursuing your on a gender for your own purposes and so Baldwin starts out the the composition and then proceeds to kind of play the role of cross examining Kilpatrick for the you the duration of the show and just kind of interrogate him about his white supremacist views. It's extraordinarily powerful encounter. Yes hopefully I'm hoping what the book coming out. Maybe something things will be uncovered covered in some archive. Somebody has a recording audio or video recording of that all right until then. Let's talk about this night in its February. Eighteenth nineteen sixty five set. Set the stage for us. Who is there? How is it structured? Who could see it? How public was this? So the debate although the it came together very last minute so the sort of wheels wheels began turning on putting this night together in January sixty five in the actual night of the debate is February two nine hundred sixty five and so you have a you know. Packed the union debating hall all was filled them. If you watch the video you can see people not only sitting in every every spot on the benches and in the galleries. But they're also sitting on the floor and buckling Baldwin after like walkover. Students is. They're going they have mostly students. You also have guest to the unions. The students were many students that were there are what they call. Members of the Union have voting. They're able to vote and ask questions during the debates but the way this debate was structured was there were two Student debaters one on each side of the motion before the house was the American dream is the expense of the American Negro. And there's there's two student debaters one gives a speech on each side of that motion and then Baldwin gets up to speak and he speaks for about twenty four minutes and Buckley gets up to speak and he speaks for about twenty nine minutes. And there's no exchange between the two of them which is one of the things that is you know in some ways unfortunate about structured and that may have been due to some of the back the backroom croom negotiations about. What what they were willing? Baldwin's people especially willing to allow to happen that night but there there is one thing that's left out of the BBC recording that was really fascinating discovers dead right the one that you can see online rights when you can see online that the students speeches are edited down and then Buckley speeches edited by about a third and one of the things. That's that's edited out of the Buckley speech. Each the questions that the students asked him so at the union like in the House of Commons students could stand up and the speaker had they could call on the student to you know for point of information for a question and so there's only one of those what they called interruptions in the in the speech that you see on on Youtube and there's actually about four or five more. They're really interesting. I mean both for the questions that are asked a really good questions but also Buckley is a master of responding to those questions kind of clever way that Oh you know almost always brings elicits laughter. And he's able to kind of diffuse the situation but yeah so the the Cambridge itself kept audio recordings these debates but they did not have the audio recording of this particular debate they thought it was lost or destroyed so is able to find one of the students from that era. who had an old reel to reel copy of the full Buckley In Baldwin speeches and he sent it to me for England and I got it digitized and so that's available for folks on the Audio Book and then the full transcription the is it appendix to the book itself. What an interesting things about Buckley's speeches that he based it on a piece that was written by Gary Wills and the National Review so this wasn't something he came with organically? I think that might surprise people who are more familiar with wills leader work but most people know that he was early. John Per Day of Buckley at the National Review. What was this piece what does it say? Why did Buckley choose to base his talk on that? Buckley says that wills is is one of the national news. Great discoveries will send him you know sample of his writing. When he's very young and Buckley sees that wills has an incredible talent and brings him on and just sort of do a lot of like like reviews for National Review and then also to begin writing essays about religion and so when the fire next time of course it emerges initially the bulk of emerges in November nineteen sixty two long piece? He's for the New Yorker magazine called letter from a region of my mind and when that piece comes out and lead sixty two the reaction is you know it's literary sensation. You know people are all sorts of of Literary folks are responding to it when the book itself the fire next time which collects that piece together with a short piece Baldwin Road for the Progressive Magazine in late sixty two. That book you know is is is just the immediate bestseller and everyone. There's very few critics have across word to say about it. So Buckley sees an opportunity for National Review. He's already identified. Baldwin is dangerous threat and so he says you know what I need to do is get somebody to write a sophisticated critique of Baldwin for the magazine and he he identifies wills as the right person to do that wills as somebody who's your Baldwin and and the fire next time in that that that book is dealing with such huge issues philosophical issues religious issues and he knows Buckley recognizes that wills is the writer in his orbit. WHO has the kind of skills to take Baldwin on so you know wills you know sits down and reads every bit of Baldwin? He can get his hands on and he writes this piece. What color is God and the piece itself is much more sophisticated than what Buckley produces at Cambridge? But it is. I mean there's ways in which Buckley was faithful to the wheels piece wills Red Baldwin an as somebody who is calling for an overthrow of Western civilization. You know in will says things like You know Baldwin wants us to you know raid the libraries and Burn Plato and Aristotle Roland the Bibles and so on and that to me is a really flawed. Reading of what Baldwin's too in that in that text and the rest of his writing but Buckley takes that and runs with it. It's one of the great mysteries. The book is whether or not Buckley really ever read Baldwin. I don't I don't really know. I think he may have just read other people reading Baldwin and then taken that taken what he liked and run with all right. Let's just put another clip here of Baldwin from the debate before we talk about it. Let me put it this way. From very little point of view the hall and the ports and the railroads other country the economy economy especially of the southern states could not conceivably be what it has become come if they had not had an do not still have indeed enforced so long so many generations cheap labor I am sitting very seriously and this is not an overstatement. I think the coffee and I asked to market and I railroad under someone else's with for nothing or nothing so Baldwin even doesn't think very different with his portion of this debate. How would you characterize the talk that he gives although the union had existed for one hundred and fifty years prior to this night? I'm pretty sure that there was never a speech quite like that speech that Baldwin deliver that night because he you know a lot of you know. Formal debate is combination of intellectual exercise as an performance. Art You know a lot of humor injected and that sort of thing but Baldwin arrives that I need delivers a sermon. He Delivers Jeremiah. Wright he is there to say things that people don't want to hear the Jeremiah supremacy really and so Baldwin speech. I think there's like three really really important. Things to keep in mind with with baldness. Which one is that? He wants to talk about the ways. In in which the doctrine of white supremacy the impact it has on what he calls the subjugated so he talks about the millions of details of every day that communicate to people of color that they are lives do not it matter and so Baldwin devotes a great deal of speech to that but he also wants to talk about the ways in which white supremacy undermines the moral lives of its would be beneficiaries series of the example he gives is among the most powerful. You can imagine at that very moment the same night at the debate. We're in the thick of the Selma campaign. So Sheriff Jim Clark some out Alabama's it must be you know he's being you know you're seeing TV everywhere. Semen newspapers brandishing his cattle prod and and using it against men women and children the streets of Alabama in Baldwin says when Jim Clark mark uses that cattle prod. What's happening to victims ghastly but in some ways what's happening inside of him as much much worse than what Baldwin is saying there is? Jim Clark is somebody who is caught up in collusion of white supremacy and he every all of his sense of a value of his sense of meaning in the world is is just caught up in this myth his his his whiteness is what gives him value and so Baldwin says that's pathetic this person. This person's life is pathetic. This is what he's clinging to for his sense of meaning Baldwin objected to thinking about this in terms of like a black liberation might object to my using that term because this is a liberation struggle. That's about all of us right. Somebody like Jim Clark needs to be liberated from from this delusion and so Baldwin those are two major pieces than the other major pieces expense. There's a very powerful very powerful language. He uses when he says you know. I picked the cotton. I built the railroads and so that is a huge theme of his speech. And just trying to draw attention to the ways in which you know our history. Our history of of racial injustice is not you know history is present everything we do Baldwin says right so that the legacy where past meets present is something he really wants to draw his all those students in the international audience he wants to reflect on legacy and think about the ways in which our history of racial injustices in president everything we do all right. There's so much in there and I'm going to do something terrible. which is I'm going to jump right to the and at least at the debate who on Baldwin once a Baldwin side wins? The vote is five hundred and forty-four in favor of bald side one hundred and forty four against so Baldwin when is victorious that night and in terms of the vote. Alright victory in that debate and in many other ways but also obviously a subject that continues to resonate nate. It's amazing how contemporary so much of what they talk about in that debate still is Nicholas. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you pleasure Nicholas Cola. uh-huh is the author of the fire is upon US James. Baldwin William F. Buckley Junior and the debate over race in America it. It's the time of year when everyone is traveling or running around getting thoughtful gifts for the people you care about. Think about giving yourself the gift of audible membership. Now is the best time to do it with a special offer of fifty three percent off your first three months. Access and unbeatable selection of audiobooks including bestsellers motivation mysteries thrillers. Memoirs and more you can choose three titles every month one audiobook and two exclusive audible originals tells. You can't hear anywhere else. Listen on any device anytime anywhere with the audible APP. It's great while commuting at the gym or during your holiday travels with audible you'll also enjoy easy audiobook exchanges and your own audiobook library you keep forever even if you cancel right now for a limited time you can can get three months of audible for just six dollars ninety five cents a month. That's more than half off the regular price. Give yourself a gift of listening for more go to audible. Dot Com uh-huh slash book reveal last year. We did something really fun on the podcast around the same time of of year and we are doing it again. Please join us on Friday November twenty second at the time center in New York City for a special live podcast announcing the ten best books of the year. I will be there. Of course as will many of the editors at the Book Review and some surprise guests we will reveal live at the podcast. Our ten best books. We'll also talk about some. That almost made the cut but didn't quite some of our personal favorites and a lot more. If you're interested in coming to the event live you can visit times events dot ny times dot com for tickets and details. And of course you can hear it here on the podcast concepcion. DILLION joins us now with some news from the literary world concepcion. Hi What's new in Florida. In Key West there is a literary nonprofit called Key West Literary Seminar and the news is that they just purchase Elizabeth Bishop's former House the poet Elizabeth Bishop and they bought it for one point two million and they plan on making it. Its headquarters one interesting thing. Is that Elizabeth Bishop spent about a decade in her life in Key West and she wrote her first poetry collection there north-and-south within south and so it really had a huge influence on her work. So it's pretty significant that they're purchasing her house key west kind of has a literary thing going on right. There's a festival all that regularly takes place down there. Yeah absolutely and also I think what it's most known for or the literary personality that it's most known for is Ernest. Hemingway who had a house. There it's now a museum and one of the big things that it's known for is the many many cats that that live on the property. Some of which derived from a cat that Ernest Hemingway owned. So so that's pretty interesting. But yes and also judy blume still lives there and beady so there is quite illiterate community. That's really rich and deep there. So what are the plans for Elizabeth. Bishop's former former home they commissioned something called a historic structures report. It's composed of teams like historians architects engineers and people that are going to look into the history of the house focusing focusing on the decade. That bishop live there and they're going to restore the house to the way that it looked when she was alive and part of what. They're drawing from our her letters. She wrote very Very detailed descriptions of the how she talked about the color of the shutters. She talked about the screened in porch that she built and so there are a lot of detailed descriptions and so they're sort of lucky in away because they have a lot to go from but they're also like I said commissioning this report to get a lot of information a lot more detailed information about the layout sort of what it looks like so that they can maintain the historical integrity of the property. I've never been to key west have you. I haven't all right. Let's go down there. Yeah we have to visit a little officious. All right concepcion. Thank you so much. Yeah thanks for having me. Jones joins us now from Boston where he is on tour for his new book. It's called how we fight for our lives memoir. It's reviewed this week in the Book Review It also also recently won the carcass prize. Say thanks for being here all right. Thanks for having me so what. Most people are familiar with you. As a poet perhaps as a former buzzfeed editor added are former Co host of the twitter show 'em to DM. Did you put all that aside to write this book. Where were you working on it while you were doing all that I was I was working on it while I was doing all of it and I think you know I? I learned a lot in unexpected ways. You know I think you know being in the newsroom for six years and and watching like reporters and editors you know you know navigate the ethics of telling other people's stories and writing about often really difficult experiences impacting other the people for example that impacted. How I wrote about my mother and my grandmother or obviously watching the conversations that I often participate in myself on twitter? You know I don't talk about trump directly. I certainly gesture toward kind of the big picture as I kind of see it. In retrospect I'm kind of in awe that I was able right while doing all of it but I think the book in some ways benefited from them. Yeah I mean I was GonNa ask you that because I think people are always interested in how writers work especially when they have other jobs. And you had three other jobs and you you're on twitter as the ferocity and very active there. I mean what was your routine like how did you did you wake up at four. Am and work on this. How did you know you know I? It changed throughout the process. I mean one when I sold the book. I've been working on it for several years before I sold and before I got to buzzfeed right so I had I had written like what I call it kind of like the tin. Pull chapters of the book. The First Chapter Memphis nineteen ninety nine and we see where my grandmother Phoenix Arizona. I had that material and that was important and then when I sold the book I went on book leave for four months and twenty fifteen so that was hugely important and then yeah I mean and then it was just kind of you do your best when you can my editor in chief it Buzzfeed News Been Smith was really supportive so you know at one point my book editor. We decided to expand the books time line by like five or six years and I was like. Oh my God. You know 'cause then what I had been able to do in terms of scrambling in writing sessions. It was like no longer possible. I was like I can't I don't know what to do. And then we changed my work schedule. I'm doing the same amount of work but for about six six months in I think Twenty Sixteen Early Twentieth Sixteen. I was working three or four day weeks and I was using those long weekends to to go to coffee shops and I was miserable. That's how I was able to write what essentially became the last act of the book. Why did you decide to do this? Did you always want to write a memoir more. I think I knew I wanted to write about my past. I think a lot of poets have a a a special relationship with the personal essay as a form and so I knew that I would share essays and talk about those experiences in some way. It took me a while before I felt comfortable calling the book a memoir before and after after I told you WANNA call it. You know. It's so funny. Writers like we always try to like talk around. What's going on because we're so nervous? I think I was like linked essays days girls. Just call it a memoir. My agent Kinda had to level with me that I was scared and I was anxious and that their the reasons for that but she was just kind of like listen. You can't be scared like you you're going to have to be confident. What scared you know you know? It's it's deeply narcissistic to write a memoir. It just is it's self centered and I've been an editor and you certainly are as well and you know you see books that bat are just all they are narcissism and and often thereby straight white men right and so I was very aware of that as a reader and I I was nervous. I wanted to make sure that I was earning readers time if I was going to call it a memoir because that I just think it's it's important and I love the form so much so just it took me a little bit of encouragement and time to feel like okay now I I see the story and then I got certainly. I became more confident in about that as I started writing it. Well you you were scared. Obviously about writing about yourself where you also frightened about writing about other people and in particular your mother and your grandmother you write about a lot in the book actually. I wasn't scared about writing. I was scared about like being a jerk. You know and and and being egotistical I I think sometimes you can read people's writing and you can see the delusion right or aware of what I was nervous about but always willing to go there in terms of up sex and anxiety and depression always willing to like Kinda late all out. I was worried about writing about my family that that was the huge. Like I mentioned like working in a newsroom and the ethics of telling other people's stories. Yes Oh my gosh that was it requires just tremendous judiciousness and and I hope I got it right. Yeah that was an ongoing challenge and that that was different in every part of the book. How did you approach that? Did you have people whose lives touched. You know in your family family and extended family look at it and make sure they were OK. Or how'd you deal with that. No I studied. I read a lot about other memoir writers so I paid in Mary car. Her work is just really important. I read a lot about and it's great right because you know those like the Liars Club love and Cherry have been out for years so it was helpful to kind of see over the course of her career. How Mary car feels about her decisions? And I kind of lined up pretty closely with her. You know the book is a product of memory and memory is a part of identity and it isn't unreliable narrator right and that's part of the story so I decided that I didn't didn't want to interview people but you know. I talked to my grandmother a couple of times mostly to lay her concerns and she just trusted me and people knew the book was coming MHM though I would every once or twice a year working on the book I would like mention it while on the phone and just be like you know. I'm working on it but I as I told my grandmother that was like listen. I've got to go there but you've changed a lot and so if I am going to really work to show that I if I was her I don't know how I would handle so having such a difficult moment. Be written about by someone else but she never told me not to write it. She never even expressing Zayed's she would it always listening to go okay. It was kind of incredible so I really tried to honor that in the writing. And that's why like for example. I think example in the last act of the book when my mom has that's a heart attack and is in a coma and certainly the funeral. If you reread it you will know. Does I tried to be very intentional. And terms of descriptive details. And so I was. I was very deliberate in terms of being like should the reader see saieed. React to this. Instant of bad news is necessary for them to see my grandmother or my uncle. All right like you. You see my grandmother at the funeral and that was like I was like. That's it you know I was very protective. I remember my edit. My editor kind of asking for a few more moments and I pushed back. You know so that that was an example of just trying to be candid and truthful but also thoughtful right. It's a very candid memoir. Let's cut right to that moment that you you mentioned. I think a couple of times with your grandmother. Tell us that story. My mom raised me as a single parent in Lewisville Texas which is a suburb of Dallas. And and she practiced Buddhism. She chanted Nam you who rang Geico if he watched the Tina Turner Bio pic. I watched countless times as a kid. That's the faith I grew up with and the rest of our family is very Christian. Different denominations and very passionate about et is a central aspect of their daily lives. And so you know it was just incredibly deeply divisive for my family. When I was growing up that my mom was raising me in this way and I was in different about all of it I should say about you know I? I was like all organized. Religion seems irritating to me but my mom would send me to Memphis to stay with my grandmother and this summer's almost a lot of single parents. Do and the summer that I was like thirteen or fourteen. It was kind of the kind of the last stand and my grandmother saw it and I was used to going to church with her once a week when I go home. That was just kind of the expectation. Then I didn't mind it. And then that summer she started going to a new church in the suburbs it was mostly white as opposed to the Black Baptist Church. I'd grown up with. So that was a culture shot. And then they were very very evangelical and and so. The summer culminates with us. Going to church. I swear. We're going like four days a week. It it in some ways. It feels like it was all it was like all I did. Was I read. Tony Morrison person that summer and I went to church for like all that happened and towards the end of the summer I think the tensions were building. I was frustrated and making my frustrations known and she was frustrated. That I was pushing back. We were at one of those evening church meetings and she took me to the front of the room and went up to the pastor and said this is my grandsons Saieed Zay. His mother is Buddhist as she'd been introducing to literally everyone at this church all summer long. That's the only way she would introduce me and he just like nodded and I thought that he was going to start praying that I would see the light and all of this kind of stuff whatever and right when I start to roll my eyes I realize that instead he was saying the things about my mother and he was like you know make her suffer. God and I remember that's when I kinda snapped back to focus because I was the moment I was just like a teenager embarrassed to be at the front of the room. That's really what I was thinking about. I realized he was saying God. Put All your plagues and your your ailments and illnesses on her. Make her suffer so that I guess us she will realize she's gone down the wrong path and bring her son back to the church with her. Teenagers aren't right about everything. But how I felt then is exactly how I feel now. What a distorted disturbing really messed up? Perception of faith. Yes this man. I'd never spoken to him that whole summer somewhere. And he's certainly hadn't met my mother so there was no knowledge or certainly no compassion. And what makes it such A. I think a central part of the book and such a sad part of the book is that my grandmother was doing it out of love. There's a Lotta silences we kinda talk about it without using nouns or verbs if if you can believe it but you know. She's expressed regret and I think she believed she was doing the right thing. And I am really interested. ACID- as a writer in those moments when you can have two people in the space and no one is the antagonise right like what does it mean. When everyone is doing their best and being proactively loving I believe my grandmother was trying to be and it's still results in tremendous hurt and the events of that night eight change the course of both of our lives as you see in the book right? I mean you then see basically an entire decade of how that moment creates this rift and this tremendous silence among all the other ongoing silences. I mean I never told my mother about it. She might have found out in another way. I don't know but I never spoke to her about got it and when my mom then has a heart attack the night before mother's Day and I show up in Memphis and she's in the ICU. And I'm looking at my grandmother and she's looking let me we didn't say it but of course all of us were thinking about. Was that night in one thousand nine hundred nine. You write about a number of really difficult things and on moments in the book from Homophobia that you experienced growing up black gay Buddhist on top of it in Texas To Oh really terrible. Physical Assault with a lover in college. Was it difficult for you to kind of relive those moments or did you tap into that easily. How how is it writing thing about this? Interestingly I wasn't difficult actually to write about those moments part of it is you know my career at this point so by the time I sold the before I was working as an lgbt editor at buzzfeed news right and then a culture editor which is to say I was just seeing from the perspective of a newsroom. The pervasiveness of this violence. And so I just I think seeing all of that and then like you know certainly talking to people reading about epidemic of Violence Against Black Trans Women for example. I don't know I think when I sat down to write about those moments in the book I was like. I'm not so special and I need to figure out how to write this in a way to connect next to the context time witnessing because I didn't want readers to say Oh this is this is so unique. This is so isolated. I want readers to go. Oh Wow does that explain the title the we in how our lives yes. Yeah that is that was. That was the intention part of it is. It's a nod to my mother and my grandmother that they're we're fighting for their lives but yeah I wanted from the very beginning to make it clear that this book isn't a vacation. You know what I mean. I don't think I really don't. I think my story is special. I I was tweeting this morning. That when I'm done with this tour in about a week I will have onto. I think it's not like nineteen stops and everywhere I've done. People are suffering gene so tremendously. Oh my gosh. I'm so like my twitter. DMC My instagram DMZ and the note. Sometimes it's overwhelming but I also just feel like think that's why I wrote the book the way I did and tried to frame it the way I did it because I think I just intuited that. What's more useful now instead of memoirs? That are just all about me. What was me is like what was us? You talk about suffering Buddhist concept also compassion. There's a lot of compassion and in the book even in these moments with the physical assault for example with your grandmother. Were it seems like you're constantly making an effort not to demonize but but to kind of look at what's going on with your antagonists at any moment and try to understand them. Do you attribute that to your Buddhist upbringing. or where does that come comes from. I think it is part of my upbringing. One concept for example. That was really important to me. Even though I don't practice nature of now I think the philosophy of it changed me in a Lotta. There's this idea as Sho Funaki which means oneness of self and environment and and that can be the self in the natural environment that could be the self in your. You're kind of human environment whether it's like your workplace or your community and then the third level of that is like the kind of national environment. My relationship to empathy comes from trying to understand. Certainly how I feel you know what I know about myself but also how. How am I living in concert with these other people and that's not about letting people off the hook but I think it's just a little bit more useful as a writer to you? Push the reader to go. Yeah this was awful okay. Let's think about why it happened. Then think about the systems that we're all living in right that At-bat can create these situations because that is the moment where a reader can go. Oh whether or not they look or live like me. They are living in the same system. Right there's living in the same America as I am and so that allows I think the reader then to have. Hopefully some tools calls to help them with their own fight. And I think that's why I mean as I've been out meeting with readers audience for the book is really diverse because I tried to make space for for our similarities and differences. You've written all this out a lot of pain in here now toward through nineteen cities. I think three more to go have how does it feel. Oh now that it's all out. It's on the page. The book is there with readers and done all that hard work one is just a tremendous relief. I mean every single book feels it's like it's a make or break situation when you're writing your like am I going to survive this. And that's regardless of subject matter but yes certainly I mean you know there was a moment and I think in two thousand sixteen. I was writing about my mom in the hospital and I was crying so hard. I had to have a friend. Come get me and I was like. I don't know if I'M GONNA survive this book and S. Five to right and and so that is I'm really proud of that accomplishment and of course it's wonderful that readers are identifying with it and connecting with it and and and the critical praise. It's wonderful the entire thrust of the book is is my fight to feel that my whole self will ever be welcomed in America America right like. That's the entire kind of journey of the book. Rely be able to be myself here and to have the story welcomed and embraced by readers. I think is a pretty yes and wonderful feeling now we will end their congratulations so much on the book. All the critical praise the feed Vancouver readers. So you thank you so much for being here. Thank you for this conversation. Say Jones's new book is. Are we fight for our lives. A memoir Joining us now to talk about what we're reading my colleagues Tina Jordan Greg. Kohl's and John Williams. Hi Guys Emma. Alright Tina let's start with you all right so I'm reading something unusual this week for me. Anyway I'm reading a book called Mrs Delany a life by Clarisa Campbell. Or and it's a biography of an eighteenth century. Collage artist told largely through the letters that she wrote she. She was from a very well connected family in Wiltshire. She endured an early terrible marriage to this to an overweight alcoholic who finally died in his sleep. At which point she wrote finding myself free for many vexations Zun brought me to a state of tranquility. I had not known for years. The widow per second marriage was very happy. Her letters are full of gossip about family friends. News politics the royals books. She was an avid reader. But when she was in her seventies she was sitting in her drawing room one day she noticed a similarity between the pedal L. A. Geranium at a scrap of paper next to her and so she had some sort of I don't know just an idea and she picked up her sewing scissors and started to cut up the paper and she became a collage artist. She used flour and water and snippets of colored lowered paper which she pasted on black paper. She first came to my attention about ten years ago when Yale had an exhibition of some of our work so all her work is collected acted in something called the Flora Dylan Co which is at the British Museum. It's so fragile. It's not on display. You have to ask to see it and I suppose you have to like have some reason to see it but when I tell you there collages that really doesn't do justice to them. A single flower ca can have hundreds and hundreds hundreds of pieces of paper layered on their astonished batter and seeing them in person. Yale had a few of them. They didn't have the whole thing. They're ten notebooks so Yale had a few of them ten years ago. And that's what I saw. She wrote. She wrote to release. I've invented a new way of imitating flowers which I just love but I'm also I'm a sucker for anything letters related to I love a pistol hobbles. This is basically a biography told through her letters. She sounds like she was fascinating. I I would love to have one of these collages you know hanging on a wall on my house however someday someday Tanya reading something also not new not new. Oh and something that I've been meaning to read pretty much since it was published in two thousand and three won the Pulitzer Prize in two thousand and four. It's a novel called the known world by Edward P Jones novel. I've been wanting to read to you. Know One of those things where you go through phases and sometimes I've been wanting more to read it than other times but I finally picked it up and said now is the time and I was at Harpercollins Collins. The publisher was working there when it was published by them an imprint. There and I remember just being a lot of love in the House for this book and a lot of admiration for it and for good the reason the book has a very easy elevator pitch. Unfortunately but it's much richer than that. The elevator pitch is that it's a novel by an African American author about slavery in the Nineteenth Eighteenth Century and it is about a slave owner. Who himself is black? He grew up on a plantation and his owner really liked him and sort of thought of him as a protege of sorts sorts. And when this slaves name is Henry Townsend the main character when he bought out of slavery by his parents he eventually starts buying slaves of his own and he has eventually. I think maybe thirty or more and the book opens with his death. It then is very fluid in terms of how it goes back and forth and time. There are a lot of secondary secondary and tertiary characters. It's not an easy to put down and immediately get back into if you if you let it go for too long so I think you need to kind of get into its flow. It's beautifully flee written. It's very humane. There's a weird sort of lack of anger in the book and it is obviously about things that are horrific but the people in it remain really really really complicated. The people on all sides of Henry's parents especially his father about halfway through the book now and his father has just and it's very dramatic scene kind of kicked him out of his house. He said I never thought that. The first person I kicked out of my house for owning other people would be my own son but get out. I think he's strikes them and knocks him to the floor. I read this morning. Actually this this kind of incredible and fascinating profile that Rachel sworn of the Times wrote in two thousand three when the book had just been a finalist for the National Book Award this is before it won the Pulitzer and Jones Jones grew up in poverty. His mother was illiterate and she talks about Rachel in the peace. Talks about how others rapturous reviews when they first started coming Ming in he had no car no cell phone no fax machine which I guess at the time something and he decided against buying a cellphone fearing it could seem too pretentious and he was in his mid fifties and I think had had spent a long time working for like a tax trade magazine or something and had been homeless himself when he was a young man. And there's something so old fashioned about the book it's a very godlike omniscient narrator and so you know I think Jones's I guess someone who didn't have a phone or car he. I think he gets back into that. Sort of nineteenth century century feel very naturally and beautifully he published another collection of short stories two years after this and then he hasn't published book since reached out to him. Hasn't he has reviewed for for us. He has not reviewed for us. We have reached out to him. He's he's not an easy person to get in touch with. Yeah he's he's just kind of absent from from the scene as it were. I'm trying to the national world in which everyone thinks it's too pretentious to. He's nearing seventy now so. I hope that there's another broken them but it's it's fantastic tastic. Only halfway through a I'm I'm trying to be leisurely enough about it to really luxuriating up because the pros is very old fashioned. Lovely Greg. What about you? You're reading. Something brand new. Yeah yeah which is unusual for me. I'm usually reading things either. Well before they come out for work or else I'm doing what you're doing right now with the Edward p Jones catching up on things things that that passed me by at that time that they came out but right now I'm reading the novel. Nothing to see here by Kevin Wilson which was just reviewed on are covered by taffy brutus actor. So it's kind of the book of the moment. I don't read a lot of it books of the moment. It's a very funny novel about a woman kind of a down at loose ends southern women living at home with her mother. She had a moment where it seemed that everything might break right for her and she won a scholarship to a prestigious this private school and while she's there she has this kind of fraught relationship with her roommate and takes the blame when her roommate has caught with drugs and she's kicked out of the school and they stay in touch over the years and now the roommate is married to a senator who has big political hopes and want to enter the democratic. Feel If he has hopes that that he will become secretary of state and he has twin children from a previous marriage whose mother has has just died and these children are now coming to live with him. As a result and they have a propensity to burst into flame. Whatever they get agitated -tated and literally literally burst into flame? It's spontaneous combustion is one of those oddities of scheduling in terms of The print book book review that this cover was also our children's book issue Burning off on the cover. I was the editor who assigned it Taffy and when I described the book tour she looked for really but she was all in on in this one when she loved it. Yeah Yeah it's funny reading it as a father myself. It takes me back to the times when he wanted your flame. It's I mean my oldest my son if I can tell a tale on him You just have a hard time containing his emotions and in public. Can you know it's not quite bursting into flame but it's bursting into kind of emotional extravagance becoming a scene the center of attention wherever you are and the patients that it takes to work through that with your young children give them coping mechanisms for the world coming at you. And that's part of what this woman Lillian. Who is the narrator of this novel has to do with these children? She develops a real bond with them very quickly. There's a lot of sweet sweet parenting stuff in there. Even though she's not their parents she she becomes their surrogate parent. And there's just a lot of real bonding in there that speaks to me as a father. There's also a lot of female friendship relationship between Lillian and these twins stepmother Madison. There's a lot of class stuff in there because Madison and comes from tremendous wealth. She's heiress to a department store fortune. She's married to the senator who himself comes from tremendous wealth. It reminded me a little bit of who is rich by Matthew Clam. AM which also has this sense of an outsider coming into a very privileged world and realizing. Wow it's completely different from anything that we're used to it. Sounds like it. Also combines like a comic tone with a more down to earth like the parental bonding and the sweetness Hewitt. I'm just over halfway way through at this point. I know from Taffy review that there is a turn in the last third of it. That feels inevitable when you reach it. I'm not there yet. Some trying to guess what it might be. But yeah it's it's very comic and there are moments that I really laugh out loud. It just kind of passing observations either about parenting or about life in general. The kids are big readers when they come to stay with Madison in the Guest House on the senators estate. The house is filled with Nancy. Drew Books and taking you back to my hardy boys books. Yeah Blue Spine and she says can we read all these and and Madison says yes and she's like we love to read but we are at our grandparents house and they only had books books about World War. Two there are four different folks about Hitler what about you. What are you reading this week reading a new book which is uncharacteristic of me? It's Megan domes new essay collection the problem with everything my journey through the new culture wars. And it's different for me in another way okay and that this is a book where I kind of agree with a lot of what she's saying so which. I don't often like to read books that I thoroughly agree with. Because you're not really learning anything a new she is a really good right are really strong. SAS and very persuasive in this book kind of interrogating her own assumptions and then flipping them and in an and and Rian targeting them and the cover kind of gives you a sense of just how to various controversial issues that she goes because on the cover. It's as micro aggression toxic fascist rape culture triggered bad ass violence speech identity politics. Goss Lighting Patriarchy privilege. There's like kind of nowhere that she doesn't go in this. That is in the subtitle. That's all in the art deco. The design it's interesting 'cause I she's a great way with titles. I think I'd pick this up sleep because of the title because I'm often talking about the problem with everything. My problem problem with. Everything is probably a little bit different from her problem with everything but the last book that I read by Megan down my also read because of the title And that book was not one of her most well. Oh noon books but it was. Life would be perfect if I lived in that house. Something I've certainly have thought to some degree or another before so I just finished is not book. I want to ask all of you a question. Courtesy of or by way of one of our listeners. Edward W. Leyland. He emailed me back in September and he asked a question that I always want to ask all of you because I'm a very slow reader but he said just wanted to make a suggestion concentrated segment on. How the hell you all manage manage to read so much for fun while doing your time consuming jobs and presumably having lives to live and he's wrong in my case but you know John John I would as you were talking about the Edward P Jones book which is not short and you were saying like you wanted to actually read it more slowly and luxuriate? I mean I really could not read need more slowly if I tried. So how do you read everything you do. Well I'm a fast reader which is not like a speed reader but I probably read a little bit more quickly. Then I'd prefer and I. It's just hard for me to have any sympathy at all. Well part of that I think was was by nature and part of it was when I was in publishing. You sort of had to read the manuscripts that were submitted. Sometimes very quickly because they wanted to know what you thought or if we thought that other houses. We're GONNA be betting on them. You wanted to have an opinion pretty quick so you take home at Three Hundred Fifty Page manuscript unscripted and be expected to read it and thirty six hours twenty four hours and obviously you're not reading for great depth at that point but it gives me a sense of moving the pages for me. It's just there are different different kinds of lives. You know you. You joked about not having a life I have a social life and I go out and do things but I don't have kids and I think that that just gives me all my time pretty much and so I read on the subway coming to work work. I read home at night. Sometimes I read on the weekends sometimes for hours at a time. Just go to a cafe or something and or the park if the weather's nice and read there's no real trick to it I just I do it all the time. Rit Eighteen. You do have kids but if anyone reads as fast as John. It's probably you know faster. It's interesting when I was five years old. And was reading thing I famously and Family Lore. My mother used to take me to the library every week. We were on our way home and we have not gotten home from library when I announced I had read all the books I had just. Yeah she didn't believe me so she took the books and read them and quizzed me and sure enough. I had read the books. We believe you so. I don't it really I. I don't really know I just like started reading fast from the very beginning so I can tell you. Do you quickly Greg. I don't well you know it's different Brent. For work from my home reading at John was was describing about publishing. I read very quickly for work. And there's a certain amount of dipping in and getting the the sound astound of something that sense of what a writer is doing. But when I read in the wild as it were I. I'm about forty pages an hour. That's what I was before I took this job. I don't know if it's now slower than that because I'm burdened with other things or if it's faster because I've I've developed the habit of it I will say it took me about two and a half years to get it through ulysses took you two and a half years to get through ulysses but one thing that I think we do need to mention here. Is that every day without fail. Greg Gets Queen Bee Time Spelling Bee game. It's deeply upsetting every generous. That's that's not the almost every day. Do you have any explanation for this gonNA burst into flames. The child on my way home from the library. Once I said I've we've got Queen B by Family I I have no explanation for it except that my mind has always i. It might be a form form of dyslexia. I look at street signs and break them down into grams right away. It's I'm always kind of rearranging letters. So Queen Bee or spelling bee that that puzzle really speaks to away that my mind works. I look at a word jumble and immediately starting to assemble the pieces. It's almost like a mathematical thematical thing like musical. My Dad had an incredibly weird habit that I'll tell you about because it's actually too complicated and people wouldn't believe emails saying I want to know what John's Dad's thing. My Dad was was a big reader but he was also kind of a he. He did have a matthey brain for someone who didn't really do it for a living. But he he and he read a lot he would read a paragraph and he was good with percentage a he would calculate the number of words in paragraph that had eiser Jay is dotted letters as a percentage of the paragraph in everything. He writes US newspaper articles billboards so if he passed a billboard that you know was forward long with the slogan and one of the words was John He would say that's twenty five percent in his brain and then he would just do that constantly. My little trick is so much less impressive and I didn't even know. I know that it was a trick. I just thought everyone could do it. But as you all know when people come into my office to talk about assigning books they'll usually come with something written on a page and one of the things written is a list of suggested reviewers and I will read it upside down and know what what everything that they're gonna say ahead of time and I guess everyone doesn't have that skill knowing if you can do it quickly and easily. I think that's a skill. It's it's it's not that exciting skill so what you're saying micro-scale scale no. I'm saying it is a skill. It's not something that everyone can do. Can you do it with a lot of time. I can do it a little bit. I think maybe maybe if I read my books upside down. Have you ever seen upside down. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're not really reading it all right. Let's run down the titles that we talked about today. Tina I read Mrs Delany a life but Clarisa Campbell or nothing to see here by Kevin Wilson. I'm reading the known world by Edward P Jones and I read Megan downs. The problem with everything all right. Thanks guys thanks Pamela. Remember there's more at NY TIMES DOT com slash books and you can always write to us at books at NY TIMES DOT Com. I write back not right away but I do. The Book Review. PODCAST IS PRODUCED BY DECREE TO PEDRO FROM HEAD stepper media with a major assists for my colleague. John Williams. Thanks for listening for the New York. Times I'm Pamela Paul.
2153: Transforming Energy
"I listened to the Black Guy who tips podcast because Rawdon, Karen Hogs, the harmful poison anger that am speaking of here is the kind that is the seed of hatred hatred as a tool has never accomplished. Any good. It is not so much a powerful filling as a blind one hatred cuts off our ability to see the humanity of others. When this happens, we no longer have regard for basic the basic rights of. Others, we do not honor their right to seek happiness to pursue their dreams to live decent lives blacks in America have been especially wounded, damaged, and fragmented by hatred. This damages come from blows inflicted on us by others inflicted amongst ourselves and aimed outwardly against other people's nearly every single one of us has met with unfair treatment subtle or severe as a result of direct or indirect hatred of who we are as black people. It is for this very reason that I'm always deeply saddened by how many of us are able to use the same weapon of hatred against other so-called marginalized people even while knowing the pain, it brings gays lesbians and. transgendered people suffered deeply as a result of this ignorance and fear based hatred. Sometimes, we single out other groups and make them the butts of our jokes. Every last one of these people as part of our collective community, they are not like you and me they are you me people who are racist are often. So because of their lack of experience, some were never taught better and there are other there are those who do know better and whose unfairness intentional no one is justified in causing another harm. But even the most hateful people are still human beings they may need to be separated from General Society for the protection of others and the good of the community but even they do not deserve hatred pain or. Death to knowingly inflict pain on other people and cause them harm or suffering naturally brings suffering back home to us. Hey, welcome to the blackout says podcast host ride, and here we're live on a Saturday ready to do some feedback. That's right. This is episode of the week where we do all the commentary on all the things that you had to say about the things that we had to say the week is the most metal episode of the week. Okay. Is a very special breaking the fourth wall addition of the blackout tips every Saturday morning and or afternoon and You can be here for okay. We are fresh off a coming from fresh fast. Did you fast? We got a decent got a good time. We had fifty minute episode that we put out I will I'll save the Audio I'll get that audio at some point. You know maybe we take a day off or something, but it was a good time. Thank you for everybody who signed up and joined us over there. We weren't able to see the chat. But we we hope people enjoy what we did. All right. Let's get to this expert. Okay. Oh. Actually, no. The official show is they tell you and unofficial support what about Bali, strain today's episode of the feedback. So comments you left on the blackout dot com you can we read those? If you go to the email address, the blackout tips go dot com we read those emails he left us a voicemail read we listen to that seven, four, five, five, seven, zero, one, eight, six if you. Gave US money donation. We will shout you out today. What else are we going to do I mean it's just so much. We're doing. Okay. If you wrote us a letter in the mail, we would read it today. We didn't. We didn't have any. Like We do them periodically we do get them. That's right. So. Yeah. Whatever you guys send in is what we're going to respond to today Missing something Oh polls we have a poll for each episode you can vote in Nepal. And we respond to the votes in the You can leave comments on both in both. So that's all the ways feedback. Today's expert is from. Being Black Zen and the art of living with fearlessness and grace by Angel Kyodo Williams I just started reading this book the last couple of days I finished one person no vote. I'm I'm running through these books right now. Okay. You understand me America. I your boy is back I don't know what happened. But I'm back to reading okay right and not force myself. Like that. That's what it means. Yes. I'm doing some wet ass reading over here. But I don't know what happened but I guess I'm back right now. So I'm just going to enjoy this but this is like mom I don't know. Third or fourth book I finished in the last couple of weeks so. You know it's been a great great feeling. anyway. This one. is about black like race and Buddhism? I'm not a Buddhist but. It's from a woman who is black and she foul Buddhism and and she talks about teams in as a black person and some of the. Of has been. Pretty. Some of His van pretty like challenging to my point of view. You know because Buddha Buddhism is alive about letting go and stuff. But at the same time, it's also being kind of affirming to some of the things I believe to some of the places I wanNA take my mind and take You know. I really do believe that right now I'm in a very healthy place mentally I've been able to like really deflect and ponder. And I mean both of those not reflecting ponder I've been able to deflect certain energy and transform per negative energy does come towards me. It's a positive things. is weird because I'm also starting to. See how much pain and stuff my friends and relationships are in you know just from from friends that I talk to us stuff how much pain in the world is constantly in and how does she does all stress and everybody out but not but not be like judging. But just a be able to like be around them and offered at least my support in my energy and not. And not do that thing where you like gas liked them like it's no big deal. But just to do that thing where it's like, you know his other ways that to look at these things and then here's the other things about you that maybe you're losing of these these these other challenges. But everyone's has their own everyone struggles their own and everyone's path is so you know not influencing you need to do this but just of be like, you know, here's here's things that worked for me. Here's where I'm at with it you know and I'm not always there and I'm not always going to be able to to maintain that type of positivity but it feels real good right now and part of that is something I've been saying on the shelf awhile, which was you know Anger letting go of anger. and. It's super hard because anger fields like control is an illusion of power right and it feels like power and I think it's also really hard because the thing I didn't understand that I really grown understand now. is letting go of community. because we bill now that doesn't mean I have no community, you build the community. You want around. You buy the building blocks in the tools that you use to build a community. So whatever you built you are community is you and you are the community whatever you build with whatever construction material you're going to build your home out of that is the same thing that people are going to be attracted to and the people that use that same material are going to be attracted to you and Ya'll going to. Build community together. It's like how you drive in a neighborhood and all the houses are like Brownstone and they have brick France because everyone there who built houses chose to build with the brick frame. You know you you very rarely see piano side in in front of the Brownstone just like, nope everyone picked a certain thing a certain aesthetic you know other communities everyone has siding. You very rarely just ride down the street and see someone. With a brick house doesn't mean it can't have it. It's just communities KINDA build around the same materials and so if you built with love if you bill understanding if you built with patients tolerance hailing in mind that is who attract to and I think it's something I haven't been able to truly grasp, but it's been happening in my life for a couple years now where like I said relationship I say stressful toxic negative whatever have. Fallen away without me doing anything I've had to implement like, would you need to get off of me? Even when I felt that way inside like maybe I should have told far set a boundary. The boundaries was set by the fact that I was building my own home with my own materials and they don't like that you know they don't like those materials and if we lose connection if I were to wake up every day and On twitter hop on facebook or get on the podcast and say something like really mean ru things about a bunch of people. Those people would gravitate towards me. Yeah. Because over rows say the past year and a half of the two if people have been paying attention, you have changed the way that you'd navigate. Social Media. and. The little things that you do and you haven't made enough between nobody just did it a lot of those people I've seen them. All of a sudden you become uninterested in all of a sudden they not on every post all of a sudden. You know that facebook algorithm basically algorithms y'all out of each other's face you know because there's about algorithms and. Is One of those things all of a sudden they were see your post every day to day don't see your posted also legally they they quit comedy because you don't show up in the time line, right? not, tell you but being outside. This cash. No it is. Okay, just joking. So you're GonNa Anger my God I'm sorry. Go Brain on. I'll just be a professional. Junkie with you. The rain is telling on these people. Okay. Anytime I get some water is like they argue? John didn't I like it like that. Okay. I WanNa see I wanNA see him treatment. Okay. I don't see when when his come out of house I need to know. Okay. I. Got Dinnertime we go outside we hear Dingo. Yeah. That's how it turned into down I. Don't know we'll talk about it. Has Nothing to the podcast the point being home. Yeah. But I changed I've navigated my social media you know Like I used to kind of like try to go back and forth with people even if anything that in realize at the time was like because they don't know me they. They know me from the podcast or some idea of who they think. They don't know me and truthfully even to a big degree, I don't know them right as so I would have this assumption. I can just talk to them like I would talk to a friend. They would understand they will have good faith and some do some do but you know there was there was sometimes it was bad faith sometimes, it was fraught and I feel that energy net tension in communicating with people as I cut off those communications. You know what I mean like I do not. What's fun about that? You know and also liked to a certain degree. You have to earn the right to have intimacy with people. That's something that is not just routinely given and the Internet kind of cuts that time down. So people think you don't have to do that. But withdrew the matter is you do just there's no shortcut to. Know there is not a social media has has given people the allusion of intimacy and you know is one of those things where yes we might interact with each other but things like that. But to tow most people unless you know them in real life, most people you do not know and so. Very hard concept for people to understand because you know like you said, social media piece of that process. But what I realized about real friendships. Only, time we'll tail and social media gives the illusion of a quicken and a short time. That's why you can see people all each other they the best friends and three months later don't speak to each of them were because they were not friends like like the they didn't have time to to build a relationship. So when a computation comes, they knew how to talk through it how to. Communicate with each other how to work through it because a lot of people don't have. The skills to resolve things they don't have like they don't have those skills to to properly communicate even though the adults and they can do it in all these other platforms they might can do it at work at all that stuff. But in their personal life, they don't have the skills that are needed to navigate it properly and and maybe like because you need perspective correct and perspective I. think changes a lot things So something that appeared very large when close when when your father away you know it feels more insignificant right and I think emotional perspective is something I've been working on something that. You know I've really. I've I've really gotten far journey because there was a time and where if someone said something bad about me out of a hundred people, I, will give them the ninety nine percent of my attention that the ninety nine percent of people that were saying something. Nice deserve. What I'm saying I'm of the opposite but yes, well, do you do the thing where you come tell me about it so it's not like you don't go through this. You just do it to me instead of doing it to the privacy So What I learned, what I China worked on as being like like. There was about three or four weeks where we weren't recording this too much because he didn't want record. She was very pissed at the front finale of insecure. And throughout that three or four weeks, I probably got. I don't know hundreds of comments on social media emails. DM's everything winning are going to record when. I didn't know when we're going to record I. Don't know if we were going to recoil like she could have been like man fuck this right you know been into it really was up to her and I was not gonNA relate that pressure to her. Boss we need to record you know like I like those people fell. How they feel nee wanted the episode, right? The other day I saw last week I saw the read. They were taking a break I think. Two weeks. And A fan. Chris was like, where's Arab? So you can't be taking shows I'll borrow Blah in crystals responded to the person and you know I don't think she was really mean or anything, but she just was you know like, Hey, what the fuck you know what I mean and we'll be good when we good or whatever right and. I think. That type of? Response is what I'm one I would have given before maybe and I'm not saying I could never do it again I mean who knows now people do get on your nerves are bad days but I I see now more of the perspective and the bigger picture stepping back and I've been able to like when I say like transform energy stuff like people asking us open and over something like that sending me the say article about the landlord getting his hair cut off. Ten. TIMES, I have turned my brain into this person. Loves what I do so. THAT THEY WANNA. Hear my opinion. Yes because they're interested in what we do and they they, they're they're a fan of it and so despite this being the one hundred time and they know that well within the human condition that even if it was a hundred different people walking up to St going nice hat by at some point, you just go I'm GonNa take my hat off, right? Well, you can't take your hat on twitter you can't take off on. You know. So this is my job. This is my thing and so. You know I learned to not give it attention and these, and by the way, this is a very easy positive for me You know where's the show has flipped like it's so easy for me. Now I really I can't think of the last time I. Got Mad. It's only to be your took the week off it used to be a thing that would make me mad like like when I'm like man with Dan we can't take a week off. You know maybe even respond maybe you're GONNA Pie Cazin. Goddamn. I'm like, why would I put that energy out there because? Even. If they don't understand what they're doing I, do understand what they're doing the same. Love you right right and so the thing I I've realizes that you have to look at In in a boils down to. Boils Down to love language. Everybody's love. Language is different. Everybody responds to different stimuli different than other people and. I know for me when he was talking about speak to you I think the biggest reason why I speak to you win those states come up is because I feel things before respond you know I like I. One of things I come I'm like a does this make sense does my response makes his am I like I like to filter that versus just responding on my first instinct because social media shows you what happens when you don't feel too that shit out and you don't analyze it. You end up making a fucking shit show. In all you had to do is take a few seconds and acts somebody. Yeah, and also I mean, you can filter it internally which I've gotten a little bit better about. Part of my process also been have external people. You know weather's you just in a few other people bossy. need you. Chris there's there's a there's like a handful of people that if something really is bothering me. Our kinda like bounce it off for them to be like what you think about it like my trip in you know and because another thing I've found is that I? Don't really want confrontation a lot of I'd just WanNa to make sure that I understood and that I'm not escalating things and I think about as I've gotten more confident than I've actually brought that stuff to people less 'cause you know. Not. I don't believe in emotional Labor Shit I think friends are friends. I would never look at my friend it'd be like Oh my God I'm doing a motion Labor for you. I think this one of the most Bush things you can pull us on by liquid a visit would a friendship Is a two way street on that I call you you call me we like we had it out. It's not a one way street. Yeah. I don't believe in Shit but 'cause you know obviously the door's always open for them to do the exact same thing for me Sir and I would never pull some type of like, God. Damn. You always complaining like what? So but anyway, the point being like I have founded. That has given me a lot of like ability to process you and then like. is also you have less running with those type of people because they're not around you because they're not attracted to that energy. So that's the other part of the transition is made. It was easier than I thought because I thought was if I make this transition of being like I'm stepping into peace, I'm stepping into my ability to heal my ability to forgive my ability to move on my ability to love myself my ability not to turn everything to a high wire act When I did that I was like. Doesn't be people to stop fucking with me and I thought of it as a bad thing at the time because you know you think to yourself the these people like I never thought these are bad people. Still. But I was like you know the how are they gonNa feel without me how? How's everything? How are they GONNA get along? You know what are they going to do when they're mad about something and I'm like, yeah I don't feel the same way is that 'cause a lot of what we call relationships now allow is like, do you agree? Yes Sir is my really what is your opinion as much as this better be European and that at the time it may I don't know like now it sounds crazy to say. But. The time I did feel away while I was I guess things people are GonNa not fuck with me. You know they're not gonNA like my podcast not GonNa like my social media, no more not GonNa like me anymore and then I was i. I don't know the relief was worth. Our rather not have that type of interaction in my life. Where I'm constantly being ripped into whipped into a tornado. Then then I'd rather be alone then be in a tornado full of people that are angry right and I think that for a lot of people use sometimes you think relationships are more important than everyday out to the other person because a lot of these times I try funny you got your mind these people will find a lot of rain thought twice about to a lot of times. The relationship ain't really that big to them. You've actually put more weight on the relationship. Then the relationship really is because the relationship really meant something and you started to change that would actually. Go along with you. If the relationship was basically based in something and in a in a strong foundation because if it's not, they just can't go with you and that's what I learned about growing and and and the thing is you did something that a lot of people aren't willing or can't do particularly black people particularly black women put themselves I go no no, no no y'all don't matter what do I won't. What do I demand? What is best for me because he was like I need to do this I need to do that. Me Me Me me me. Okay, and once you do that you either Whitney or give me how and that's the end of it, and that's hard for people to understand like I'll make an shift you either shift Whitney or either you go about your business is nothing personal and I got the follow that which we ain't got to have a confrontation. We'll just slowly drift away and that's okay you. Have to be okay we're losing friendships and I think that's a big fear of people of losing friendships but the thing is every time you lose a friend, you gain it somewhere else. You just hadn't met the person because you wasn't on the same level as the person, and then once you got over here and this person who may have already took that emotional or. Spiritual journey with wind to and all of us are you'll find somebody to replace that person because to be actually never alone. You always surrounded by a group of people and the thing is the moment you think you are the loneliness somebody will come out and reach you and see you it'd be like, Oh, I've been through that or I can help you get through. That a girl I seen that or or yeah you know and it's that thing where we ourselves into the illusion of losing everything but we really don't lose nothing once you go to whatever your next level is it will actually open you up to more things that you couldn't even imagine you couldn't even fathom it's it's more peace is more clarity. You know it's just more. Small loving, and I'm saying this as somebody who's actually been through this where I've had to shake things off and and get things particularly when we go on through this pandemic, now was the time to clean your clouds 'cause shit. What else you got to do other than spirit. For me is not even loneliness as much as I realize now control. Yes. I just felt like Like you had to learn to let go and let things be let people be you know because I've you know I live with that internal dialogue of not being good enough need an like meaning to Needing to not take up too much space but at the same time to take care of people, Oughta Shit, and then I had to let some of that go because you know you're grown ass person they they'll be fine without they'll find a way to get their next meal with not wasn't up to you. You know nobody's parent you know what I mean so. Some of that was also just in a weird way my own ego you know. So it's like and the people I enjoy that kind of like anger and community of anger and hatred and shit dislike they're gonNA find community anyway you know maybe that's their battle to fight about their fear of leading though and being alone and stuff mom wasn't about being alone I I love. My was just you no matter of filling a responsibility the people that honestly. What I was not being responsible to myself. I was letting myself be run down by people and yeah. Part of that was anger net, and that that they that quote I started off with is exactly my belief system and the. That's tough is. As a black person. Is going into that that unknown void where you go and this also applies to the people who have heard us. because. That's the part you know is a much tougher sale. For us is black people. It is it is when you was talking about the hatred because the thing is there are a lot of people that are hurt in a group of people or a person has hurt them to their core like like like lily hurt them today core with they didn't even think that they was going to make not been through this where you didn't even want to wake up in the morning. You dislike you know what the world will be better off without me like you just in such a dark desperate. A place and you don't ever think you're going to climb out in the thing is it will consume you and it will change your personality where you just mean in theater and you hateful towards everybody 'cause I been there and is one of those things where. I had to learn that you know people hurt people hurt people but that's a true statement. Somebody else talked to you. So you turn around you're lashing out at other people who actually had nothing to do with the situation they they're just collateral damage to your anger's like angry. So I am letting trump was sprayed on everybody that comes in my proximity because I, am hurt people get mad when you say I don't even say these things because I know people get mad they get mad and people are being dismissive but people give them our neighboring US someone being bitter. I gave Amazon brings up you know you just angry you just hate shit like that. But one reason they won't you never met an ask because a lot of times. That's what it is. Right. You know it's like the third rail it no one wants to ever be those things you don't want to ever say I was better I was angry I was jealous I just hating right. So we have to formulate all these words around it 'til voice hand fucking obvious truth that everyone's already noticed right in thinking all these flowery words do is cover up the route calls with a problem and the thing is is like racism and sexism and Misogyny and all that you call it. But what it is, and until you admit that the problem is coming from the inside of the House and the problem is me, the situation will not change. You'RE GONNA continue to wake up everyday man you're going to continue to wake up everyday bitter you're going to tell you to wake up every day. Angry. You are going to continue on this path until you make a decision and I have got to change in his also to saying is was so funny that nobody. Thinks that they're hurting anybody but everybody's hurt that makes little sense fry like everybody's angry at everybody everybody's angry everybody's lashing out. Everybody's mad everybody's upset. The world is going apart you locked up in a house. You don't know what to do this uncertainty. So a lot of people get their frustration instead of taking out on family members a lot of them go on wind with this anger and frustration and bitterness because they feel like it's a form of control instead of looking at. It inside of me this in me to feel this way. So I can transform SORTA purrs Outta me who do I need to forgive? Who Do I need to say I'm sorry to do I need to forgive myself do I need to. Apologize to myself for the things that I have done and who I've heard, what is it that I need to do to stop the root of this problem but debt goes back to some of the things I was saying before it requires work and only require work. It requires you acknowledging that is a problem is just like somebody alcoholics a Lotta time to go a baby you holly you denied denied denied the not the problem cannot be fit onto you admit there's a problem. Yeah. I WanNa get to a place where I said a boundary and it's not a boundary setting anger correct. Where's the boundary set in and peace yet and this is A lot of people don't understand that subtle difference, but it to me that's everything because I do feel like the things she brought up that that that I think is universal is that. to knowingly inflict pain or other people and causing harm or suffering naturally, bring suffering back home to us and I think that's true. You know I know people that car some bullshit or whatever. But. At least I'll put it this way. It's been true for me I even when I fell justified I've had times might might I could have handled that better or you know the the violence that I had to enact to even defend myself? Also is still violence and also does leave a mark on me and my soul in the things I believe in. So I, think it's hard for people to see those things. It is also I think for me. It comes down to like I said before acknowledging that there's a problem acknowledging each issue acknowledging this something needs to to change going outside of yourself sometimes they getting the help and and learning whatever tools that you need to equip yourself because a lot of times people can't deal with certain things because they're not equipped to deal with it and so like you said, you could do things like read go to psychologist colleges get medication whatever it takes to help you get to that better place mentally and a lot of times the people that want you to stay there they don't want you. To Change, they don't want you to get the help because if you get the help that goes back to some of the things you said that mean a relationship through end because they liked the missed, they liked the darkness they liked to tell you what you used to be. They don't want you to change because you change it become a better person. They are afraid that you will lead them behind. So instead of them acknowledging their own insecurity, their projected onto you but you have to say this is the journey in my life that I have to take on all my own and. It's okay if the relationship dissolves, it is what it is but that's very difficult for people to do and sometimes not only does it mean friends that need sometimes. Family members loved ones, brothers, sisters, mother father, whatever these relationships are that are not healthy to you. Yeah I think there's another part of the book where they talked about. that. The Battle of being I'm fine the way. I am. How am and how a lot of times? That's what keeps you stuck? A like you accepting, you can't do better and that you can't find more better. You can't find better ways to deal with things because you know as the book talks about life is suffering life is uncomfortable like. Everyone's life has to deal with that. So how you deal with it is really what changes everything. That's Donald Song. I. Twice. Look. Really. Rains. In ways to grow reading rainbow. A. Rain. All right now is I reading Rainbow Segment Let's get into. Some of the stuff that you is this week. Okay. A lot of y'all hooked us up. With. The money. Okay and we asked to talk about the money I can't I was going to be talking about them fast our views It's all about the money. Go up the dollar made me Holler. Honey Boo boo okay. Sir. Unemployed. Today's new day new day new cash page. Let's talk about it Kevin W with the don't you. Thank you very much. Girl Falcons diva. Jason. L.. Donna. Donna in. LISTENED TO F-. Derek does. Michelle. Lynnwood see. Lorenzi. Zachary in. A The corporate. Grace. Be Combing. Donna in. Mala. Nike. Eiger Allegra. We were on music eight membranes not too long. trae said Jay. Cedric W. Preston. Team a syndromes Nellie L. Monarchy. Jamesy. Gerard. Ale. How in hope that McDonald's working? Do slapping the man. Aimless Shonda s that is urban. Thank you so much for the recurring donations. Today's. Up in the cloud. Enough. Is the problem. Is I can't explain. Our. God Arkansas. It's so hot and you. Show. Give up now. Let's talk about these pasta our views though that's what made me, smile. We got one new one else stitcher. Another one by Stephanie E who says I stars been listening for years gay my first five star review five or six years ago you'll park has been bringing me so much joy I figured it was time for another one love y'all. Stefan and listen that's a long time to be listeners. Five years that's a hell of a milestone. CLAP FOR YOURSELF We also got some items I. Think we got new wins. Love this show podcast for people of Color and allies. This review is allowed to come everytime time I try to create it. I doesn't exist best show ever I I listened hour-long Commute to work when I first moved to. Florida. I was missing being around other black people I look for black in the Title L. Oil are arrived review of the Vietnam documentary it will concise and very educational but it wasn't just on boring think peace at nuance and he discussed pop culture to it was the best mix I could ask for I've been hurt since love this and the read I'll shut out. Read. And thank you for listening like I said such dope. Dope I loved when I hear people saying listen for a while. It's almost easier to be like I found the podcast today in this. Great. You know it's like you listen for a long time. Then you heard US disagree with you. You heard US agree would disagree with each other yeras make jokes. You had a bunch of share in by the end. It's like you know if you really fucked us at a year two. Yeah Episode Twenty One fifty one I absolutely love this episode there was there was actually so much information that had to save it to re listen to it. Again me all the way together with my regards social media I've been starting to get that feeling as well. The my opinions may not be my own who I've been following. Our has not exactly been good for me mentally I really do love your show. In that, your empathy really does come through I. Love The show the show that the show was as long as it needed to be your point to be hurt, keep being fully you and fully black twenty underscores the thank you. Oh, sorry. The last person was glad Jake Ninety nine my bad. Yes and this one was twenty six. Thank you. Thank you. I am I'm onto something with this man I really do. Like you know it is one of those things I had like filling underneath and. I think what it is that I? Want. People to feel the way I feel even they don't get that away. I got there and maybe people already are doing these things and I'm just I'm late to the game but I want people to feel that freedom that you grant yourself by not assuming the worst of every situation not walking around with a fucking hit list in your mind of all the people you can't like and don't like and you want to take down much and allowing e situation to be what it is because I'm seeing people we used in real time and I'm watching this stuff happen and honestly guy over and over again, every day is the same shit. Maybe, yesterday at day before Joe Biden, there was another viral clip job either fuck Joe Biden fucked up ten second clip from twenty minute interview of course, where you could go click on our interview and see but you know you didn't the headlines are very salacious that clip with something to the to the to the thing a saying like well, the black community. Is Not is is not as diverse as the Latino community and people like what does he mean? Using black people not diverse. We'd Evers not I'm on a lift Blah Blah Blah. Okay. What could he possibly fucking me? You didn't. He just walked in and to be like fuck niggers today I can't help myself I'm Joe Biden no is the easy grab. Is that easy job? Everyone's GonNa go viral Dunkin on it and whatever. But the quote was literally about voting. And we are not. Black. People. Are Not as diverse which he was trying to use a coded language to be nice to Latino, v. because. Where he really saying is we don't vote against our own interests like that. We don't go 'cause Latino. People are some of them are just white. Vote in a vote white they do. Right. So there was that where he was like, yeah black people are not GonNa do stupid shit like that. Same thing we say if you not from you want black yes. That the fuck are you talking about what black people you know why you're like? I'm voted for trump. Who Do you know that you go? Yes. Great. Great. Black Carson. Love the way they contribute to the rice none of us. Like you know a deal is way but that's the thing. The clip can go viral. The anger can go viral and people get whipped into a frenzy, and now's a joke competition is a mean, is all these things that it shouldn't be because it's a very serious election a very serious thing we're going through right now I'm not on joke mole with this year. Yano wet I don't care if he pulls his dig out he got my mother fucking folk. But the point is new. What meant. And the thing that I realize over the time period, the people who are assuming the worst are assuming the worst is a brand. They also know what it means and so I don't even this time I didn't even engage with it I don't re tweet it. I. Don't respond to I, don't try to explain it. I know what you I know you know. And if I know, you know I'm the fool three engaging you. Yes. That makes meet official for for going when they this y'all voting for yes and you absolutely know that. So I don't even know what the problem is. At this point we started at one hundred one. Okay. So yeah, it's just it's just such a weird, but but the thing is. If you have emotional perspective. If you take a step back. And you say, wait a minute. I've seen as play before. If, you take a step back and you see the actors in the play and when you see the actors in the play you how much of it is preordained prescriptive. How much of it honestly is people just passing the time. Like this is me. When I know how to transform energy I've always been transforming energy. I just used to transform in. More negatively take anger and making me let me be angry. You Know I. Like an everyone does is you take something happens in you and you can be in a perfectly fine mood. A thing happens maybe not even directly but thing happens it changes your move. So you have been transformed by energy. You know whether and you allow that process to happen. So can you then do it the other way? That's the question. Can you take those external factors and then flip it into? The process of your emotions that you've been through so many times willfully get in there and turn gears yourself willfully get in there and adjust the settings on your own. Can you do that yourself because I think that's a being an adult is that's the journey that we're all on. You know because before we check out of this, bitch, that's all we got really right and the thing is there are a lot of adults who don't know how to manipulate those switches and they almost respond even though you're your number session adult, you respond teenagers found like key it's something happened was outrage is just burst is this. And it's to say you can't be angry is not just is is control like control yourself be angry when you want to be angry? Yes Sir be sad when you WANNA be sad. Choice don't let other people situation manipulate here either those feeling remindful of it, and that's so that day I was able to sit back and watch people be. I watched people the NFL were being mined list. Get whipped into a frenzy. Now that's something that most. Shell can probably agree on because we're all I were black for the most part when none of us are stupid enough to vote for trump. So okay let's talk about something you probably won't agree on but I feel the same way about. Arguing with these things about Megan and and Cardi I'm not doing it why Would I do that for I saw people re tweeting Republicans Day going back and forth with motherfuckers with mean who think that. This was an invitation for their opinions on women's bodies and sexuality. Why are you even engaging them correct this is all this is all a something we've seen before the conversation we've seen it before you can't save them, and I, and what I realized is the same thing happened with Kylie Jenner and house she tried it after that video. It's people are not being honest with themselves. Yes. They're not when they watch that video what they wanted to do was fight about it. Yes. People like the fight and. Argue they looked for they wanted to be someone's huckleberry. They look for people to fight. They will never admit that that's what they do know they will they may not even be aware that. This was they rather than rather than appreciating and joining us and sharing a community like we're having a good time. They will find the people. They could be some Ashi nigger with two followers. It could be some other fuck that you got blocked. It could be like I honestly think people go look for that shift they do and the thing that trip me out about it and the thing that I don't understand I see people do this and then in turn around why am I so angry why I'm asking me bitch because you argue with everybody at some period of time, you can check out as some time eighties you it. Is One hundred percent you. You'll go seek them you go look within you get the argument and did you complain it doesn't make no sense something has got the change in this circle eventually you got to check out and be like I'm not arguing with them today you know what your blood pressure will fucking go down your heart rate would go down and you will feel a lot better but there's something with age you that says, I have to say something what did you say something I don't want him you complain to you because this projects for what silence that exist when you're not going back and forth with these losers. Is the biggest fear you're more afraid of that than they're paying you're more afraid of your own company. Then whatever this stupid ass Republican had to say about Megan's body or about Cardi B. Role model you're more your voiding something else something internal and and that's why you look for that external stimuli. To to shoot out your motion that you are transforming, energy, your transforming the energy that exist in the space whereas just you that you don't want to deal with into external rage at someone else where you can go at least I'm not focusing on me right now at least I'm not feeling angry Lisa feel or at least I'm not feeling fruitlessly angry at myself at. Least I'm not feeling sad at least. I'm not depressed at least I'm not alone you see what I'm saying and so that becomes the community. Now, the share community of we're frightened people over this thing you know it's to pass the time. I think. So yes but let's see. That's the thing about passing Tom No care you pat time passing no matter what you do. So was not passing Tom necessarily it's passing time avoiding some metals. So we channel our engine different Shit and it's not everyone does it is just I don't WanNa mindlessly do it. That's all. 'cause everybody doesn't everybody channels into other places. If every moment is important, every moment should have some level of intense analogy you know or you should at least. I want to be aware of house me and my mom, my money my moments. Yes, sir. But yes, Oh, back to back to their view Cyrus along. I. Love You guys for Real for real. This is from Alexandra. San Riding CAIRN. Bring me complete joy every week I. Thank you. And lastly, true comedy. This is from robbery, right? So I think maybe From Atypical Sports shows. That's my homey. The blackout has park has listed as a comedy podcast, but is so much more than that. Yes. The House Right ICARE can will leave you laughing they cover various topics and new society and politics but more importantly, they demonstrate empathy and care as they process information that can I be traumatic on his own? So often the news feels overwhelming Barada Karen Kill the listeners navigate and processing. It's a nurturing environment and makes more of a tastic listen as you prepare for work or as you want in the evening, this is a comedy podcast. But in the classical sense comedies were plays happy ending into was lifted your spirits and left you feeling rejuvenated with the blackout test podcast and Karen just at. Wow. Great. Thank you. I know right a flattering review I'm raise. Oh. Thank you baby. All right. Let's get into the comments on episodes. We had throughout the week, the feedback episode twenty, one, Forty, eight, goodbye, Black Walnut I know Herman Cain I dance the phone. Won't be me and says not directly related to anything you talked about on episode but August I is a masturbation day in Trinidad Tobago Tobago on. An official holiday, it became a holiday when I was a child and I remember being taught the history of African slavery in the Caribbean in Primary School Elementary School. If the US want to do the same, it could work. Really could work. But I'm glad to hear that. Was The holiday they mad about teaching the sixteen nineteen Rogers. Sarah not just other. Black. People Got Free Sarah Say If, you are person without a home you can't vote a Kobe will sent this in I'm GonNa read because I'm glad you cleared up but I do want to clarify what we talked about if you are a person without a home you can vote I know because I'm GonNa be volunteer at my polling place and they gave me information on how to register person without a permanent address. The best way is to get a letter from an organization that provides shelter in many states I know Wisconsin. For sure and I looked up North Carolina as well. You can list your usual sleeping area unfortunately confusing around the issue is confounded by the fact that there are different regulations by state so I can't guarantee the vacuum everywhere just wanted to let people know that if you currently don't have a permanent location, you can still vote if for North Carolina under residency and she puts links you WANNA see the links go to the blackout dot Com this is episode number twenty, one, forty, eight looking at comments. Okay. So you're absolutely right there. And everyone else who wrote in about this we're not saying it's impossible to vote if you're homeless, that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is if people get evicted voting is not going to necessarily be as high on their priority list as if you have a stable living situation. And when the wasn't started being about, you know needed to feed yourself. Voting is one of these big picture things you know it's like a maslow's hierarchy of needs. Now, what's fucked up is that voting is literally number one almost people's knees like you can't do it your knees will never get better but at the same time they part of the reason they keep your knees not being met. So you won't vote. That's one of the you know working too hard too busy. Yeah I'm sure I'll re more x one one person no vote but I mean when you think about the things they've done to black people with schooling with living. With all like being public transportation specifically done to keep us from voting. Any works not because is impossible to do a worse because it's harder to do, and there's a certain level of heart that makes people go. I'm not doing this yet because the thing is and I do understand people sitting those links, but you also have to think now I had to take the extra effort. You know in his things have I don't have nowhere to stay voting like you say voting is not going to be able to talk my gender and like you say it varies from state to state and a lot of times they want you to do it within thirty days prior to the election. So as one of those things where I need to be sure this is done by a certain deadline and so a lot of people once they become homeless, a lot of them just don't vote they don't they're gonNa make it difficult right? They're gonNA try to take you off the registration rolls go they're going to use that no match system where they go. One of the letters often your address or you know the middle initial, the driver's license place different in the middle initial on the. Rest of the library cards, fractious right, and so this my point is. For Republicans in the way they think they aren't worried as much about you being evicted because they're thinking well, the kind of people that are GonNa get addicted are going to be people are not going to vote I. Yes. So if getting evicted is just one more hard step. That that. Jeopardizes your vote. They're willing to let that happen. That's all and and and I'm glad you wrote in 'cause don't give don't if you're listening to this and. You know this capacity you in a situation like absolutely you know fire resources you can't. But also just I understand on a human level, it may not be the top priority at that point. So. The Paulo was McCain's death hilarious tragic or both care. Both. eighty-one percent audience say both it was Hilarious and tragic eleven says say just tragedy. Eight percents day her Larry's. And I gotta say I agree with all y'all. Really do. I. I mean, this is both for me. Yes. Because there's part of me that will always feel sad that he died that way to serve like. It, was a stupid. I know and I'm not that I was a very tolerant person. I just didn't think I guess I. Don't WanNa. Think anyone's that to do it. Because he believed in white supremacy. Ms Says. Thank you for that fitting tribute to Herman Cain I. Feel that Herman Cain made ultimate sacrifice for Republican showed without a mask and Tulsa sadly, one of the mini places of of Black Nascar and made the point for Republicans say yes folks Culligan. died to the other vars. His death will feel that dumb asses do not need to wear a mask kill off many black people as possible. Say Yo. Real tall deck I want to know who else stick that was in that crowd with him. Somebody else is. Like I said they just not public figure so we will never know these people will have the right to kind of go into anonymity and we will never see again the Aria that possibly man a second black Tulsa massacre. Because of the Kobe is sh. LUPITA says they'll those down hurricane tweets black twitter fucking vicious. I couldn't lad the trump the trump years have hard to me but I getting nowadays we all collectively going to extra hail. Yeah I don't. You know nine on the upside down at six. Oh, he must be. I didn't see the jokes I'm sure they was good I mean it's kind of it's funny. I laugh it all the time. We all check out this bitch so I laugh it down all the time not every death. It's funny with somebody's motherfuckers pretty hilarious and he is was is what a dumb ass way adopt. Twenty forty, nine science air things. De Ramsey rise to and five stars I cream my tablet when I heard wry smyers, things child I. Really don't like it here sometimes. Yeah. And then Cheyenne says I have to think that no name is doing this because the capitalism one thing I discovered his dad, we critique the people that we follow. The most thing in that they should be doing better is something I've been guilty of I'm working personally however y'all completely correct about how she should be targeted other people at government about these concerns. You know what I hope. You're right I'll put it. That way is not the volume getting. But out you're right because I think if you take it one step further. The still. I'll put it this way. Heard conflicting to. Magazine like. His Jealousy. I'll say that I don't know for sure I don't know her we've only had one in compensate one conversation and you know I like I said I still like her as from what I know of her work and frank stuff I have no one. Yeah but. Yeah his this is not. Snack good. Now I will say before I move on this is an email not comment, but I wanna do it here because we got an email this week at the name episodes size air things. From Rubin. Who says tyrod and care and I hope this finds you will. I came across your podcast yesterday titled Size Air Things where You discussed the Fisa wingers grocery store side and postings, and wanted to reach out. I work on the US team for air things which you name title episode title actor I wanted to clarify you the air things it everything's is and see if it will be feasible to change the title of the Pike as episodes below. First half of air things. I want to make it clear that the brain has absolutely no connection to wingers. It has absolutely nothing to do with that situation secondly, as one of the original articles, commoners points out air things actually producer a smart indoor air quality monitoring technology based in Norway the quote attributed to airplanes use by wingers. Falsely altered AAH misconstrued from a blog post written by the company intended to advocate consumers on the health aspects of co two. As you'll see, the everything's language says nothing about mask or any impact of wearing them. I'm concerned that the title of your podcast episode misleading audience to put my class reputation and risk. We Got Third Party Technology Company that has connects to the situation. It does not in any way down to cinema or statements made by the store. Please let me know what may be feasible. Thanks in advance for your time best Ruben. So I, read all that and I was like negative Joe. I thought about it was like man they probably you know. At this point, they have to be bothered just because of the sheer. Variety of the original story right and you know in the episode in all fairness, we're comedy show we creative license and we did joke, we didn't make any. Paranoia Shit like science everything's the business does this I didn't even exist we just didn't think. We. was so basic that it wasn't real same right but. Slow I told him. We were clarified in the show you know just in case anyone possibly could have been reading that thinking we believe size air things is a bigger organization. Do great things. Yes. So that's not that's not what we were saying. And? I told him we were corrected on air. We read his email. and. Let us know if he thought that was a finding said I spoke to their team about this and we're in agreement that isn't a reasonable solution feel free to share on your show. Please let me know when episode is slated for. We look forward to listen. It's Oh. Yeah. What a what a crazy world? Yes. So the one person. That's actually real and I am. John No Jahor, we learned to because like I said I was joking because I didn't think it was a real thing. Right. Well, also though I understand why they will feel paranoid paranoid as shit if. Some big use us as like the fucking cosign. On their bigotry like and like like two points now, and it was like engage people is brand new like you know what I hear you. I won't vote the record corrected to come on if they would've win state and that's the problem. If point number eleven on that list would have been like ended a black guy who agrees with us like new y'all go ahead and fix that playing I'll straighten that out. So? I am attitude at all man. But I do feel like you need to admit. Size, everything's funny name. Okay. I just think I need to admit it is no it doesn't mean as bad product doesn't mean you're doing yama here doing some stuff. Air, things does sound like if someone couldn't think of. Also. What is that? What is that like is that a would that be a weather balloon. Could that be. ACCUA. Cloud Columbia a Nimbus cloud could that be like is a lot means. There like well what does that thing as a science? DECIDERS air thing. Was it. Late an movie wasn't even move. You know the movie about the science everything's you know. So I think you have to give us some leeway. Lavenham I I mean I'm glad y'all do serious work in I did offer to interview them for the show. So they wanted to like talk about what they do. And? How it works and what are size air things how they helping us Hey I'm more than willing to interview and put it out on the show. We were big enough to get your attention from the title may we'll get there can be big enough to spread the word about the work. Did you do you know who is my by it? I don't know how to I. Don't know if that's seven things can just saying things this way no name going beyond say she don't that because she jealous she don't know because she's anti-capitalist. Care Jealous. Eight percent say she's anti-capitalist and that's why she's going beyond say. Ninety two percents she jealous I, think I want to ninety two percent It just don't make sense. I think when you have people from Africa telling you. That you had to admit you. Especially, when you're not even trying to look like this is the thing you're not even trying to respond to them people you're not even trying to address ignored the hell out of the like hundreds of people was mentioning you. I'm just not even correct the nerve I'm just GonNa let I'm just GonNa leave it at this I'm not even going to be like. Any other ashby like for dragging me I learned a lot. She didn't WanNa hear this time and I think that's a personal thing. That's is my guess I don't know that women Jd Dean says the Corona saying Manhattan screaming at my phone my son was sixteen when he bought brought kkob home to us or early March before lockdown it was hardest on me because I'm seriously immuno-deficient my son got over it without any lasting problems in a couple of weeks I still need to monitor my heart rates because it was skyrockets for no reason at all terrified no getting better slowly ever since we recover our son has been damn near a goer phobic because he doesn't want raise bringing it, hound us again i. Can Count on one hand the number of times he has left the house he wears his mass when he's outside more in the front line I, see the lifelong impact their code is having kids they are scared of the world and they're give a fuck is broken. Why should they work to get good grades on the job? So uncertain most classes online only so they don't even have college experience to look forward to we're trying to keep life as normal as possible in our home, but it's tough is the normal is new to us also yes, we have the kids in therapy so that they can navigate all this working out she even knew. Right working on getting to maintain a positive mindset throughout this is a true challenge. But what choice do you have to keep it pushing? Yup notifies you know very important to do the things they need to. You know to be done to protect union films and your loved ones and a normal have keys don't have a dog in the fight but this is why so many parents and teachers are protesting this shit about sinecures back to school because kids give it to each other and they and they bring them back home to the notes. And that's kind of an resolved. Yup. I. Get to the next episode blackbeard travelers we talked to brandon from black beard travelers is fine episode We've got some comments rob one says thanks to Brandon. I. Found out. That a few breweries around me are participating in the black and beautiful challenge, I'll have to get out. To them this week in and pick up those new beers we hit. This right here on line. This is the blackest beautiful beer. Is the imperial stout. and. It's delicious I actually like this style I normally don't go for dark beers pace almost isn't very sweet. It tastes chocolate a lot of times when you get dark doubts that they have a bitter taste but this is not bitter and is not tar isn't it? I think chocolate in here I'll. Okay that's what I'm saying I. Taste Tastes Sweet. Yes. Even says. The beer because bitter and pissy taste and whatnot black beautiful in Charlotte each each one is different but. Go ahead and I'll be year I used to like because most of are introduced to the library wide and Shit like dad but once you start Kinda Branson the craft beers like we had a beard straight up, rubare. Eli. Once you start branching into that type of stuff, it will actually open up in change your mind on beer I think that when most about introduced the years they're introduced to like the basic as bitch when it comes to be yours. I taste because bidder pissy. Tyson but I have to list I think it might I might have to give it a shot and find something sweet or fruity and he suggested that you enjoy. What was that was the poodle? Dog Beer we found it a Harris. Teeter, in is Michael Blueberry type of. Absolutely delicious. Yeah. That that Blue Blue Bay beer was so good and I cannot fucking find it again. No I think we're GONNA have to go order directly phone number or something. I might go on and find or something 'cause Abbey was so good that'd be was anyway I I'll tell you checks like blueberries like blueberries in it was delicious. Everytime we go back to that Harris Teeter. It is never there are maginness for smart very light got to be stolen away to explain how does merciless acted. Anonymous. AS HARADA CARE You. WanNa see vast parade a colorful interesting beers follow at. An undisclosed underscore drunk Berry instagram. Of Chef. Travis. The partner and podcast and cry of friend of TVD NOT CHEF Gregorio cheers all kind of Beer culture is below the fuck up. I see a lot of people drinking getting into craft, beers I, see miss, music lover, and Jose I see a lot of people kinda going up and down my Tamla of some of the suggestions I get from Neil. Yup I put the League in a chat free to follow. If you want to now I'm mostly just follow butts or instagram. So I'll probably follow maybe I'll follow him from my the blackout tips account, but I probably won't follow from my regular account because you know I'm here. Bud The poll was do you drink craft beer? Yes. All the time. Yes sometimes or no. Yes. Yeah. I think I'm yes sometimes thirty percent. Seventeen percents all the time and I mean thirteen percent say all the time and fifty seven percent taking new thing. A lot of people just drink beer. Ms. Marseille. So smack in the middle the outlet. Mall. Williamsburg, Virginia found a beer joint. The had a beer costs Salvador Domingo. It was a Mexican beer if Jalapeno and lime in the middle of the hottest part. Of June, it was so refreshing eyebrow about a few abroad a few years back home. So tasty. That sounds absolutely delicious I think this is diff- Maybe Taif tiff. Hey, y'all love the discussion I got into Craft Beers at the searching for a new stout. I prefer dark beers with chocolate coffee tiles, and the fuller to be at the better. I didn't realize I was alive until you can start talking about dessert. Why Scotto Yeh for me? I wish I lived in a state where I could get wine slash via ship to my house. But Alas, I do not let the podcast. Cheers. Yeah Smiles man they real date. ABC. I don't know why this is good. I feel bathroom because I, feel like they've been so diddy now that they almost have to act like they hate the sweet shit in order to be part of the SNOB game and our Napa new that. I won't do it either in his one of the things I don't know if it's something like that but needs fewer whatever it's like a star wind for people. You know it's the same people had on. Starting music because it's like that's what everyone likes. When you started out you know as well. Okay. Well, negative what I like you got to start somewhere y'all won't be going into club or not. They don't. Want everybody in the club. Okay. Okay. With an I guess I'm not a part of the club -cause honey I'm a good Scotto. All I can say is the one and I, do not like. I don't you know Biffi Beffy Feet does the only one I don't like. Kim dachshunds to be quite honest. I don't really fuck with being, but I learned conversation Kerr made on enjoyable and cooler questions this. There's an elitism that I've experienced getting a tasty food or drink white people are enjoying. I. Guess while people are enjoying curry flavour as the Air House and I just Latin Myself Little River Simone her but this young man has carved out a great infield a niche for himself I have had some really decent Pale Ales at our smoothie refresher and very, very pale. Was So funny. Is there a lot of people when it comes to like the the sweets into bitter is not as stuff is also one of those things where These views don't sell for no reason because a lot of people actually liked tweet beers I mean that's would be a sweet wines. So they actually say just like these other ones sales. So it's like, what's the problem everybody dislikes wines Twenty one fifty one is Karma. And left a comment here in Queen Karen Thing Karma is my new favorite day I didn't know who that guy was singing aware her though. Sorry to this man. There's actually a woman. She's talking about me l.. Her breath. The poll. Do you feel about your senses form yet? Yes. No or having gotten a form. Eighty four percent of our audience that responded to this poll have filled out their senses. We feel about ours. Won't my tax money to be used wisely twelve percents said no, maybe they part of that twelve that thing. You know this how trump? House and phobes since they haven't gotten a form Kim Doxa sure did and I suck at and everything time they lucky. I saw that you do it online you better believe I started for that envelope for forty five minutes though if I can do it, we all can I truly suck at it. Yet. Goal on if you still got time go online y'all. You still have time I felt as I was what a deadline but you can still Meli bag this remember in September is over so and if you haven't gotten one look into that. figure out what what's going on with that. Last episode was ain't we lucky we got em with Chris Lambert. This episode Films Live Studio at. The, poll. I mean, the Communists were de Ramsey AK mother Jenkins said five stars always good hackers lambeth gather amongst the negroes walks I may destroy. You is pure gold I. Do love it man this finale is going to be very interesting. And once again I think I'll wait to my day to their something to watch it rather than watching what the tunnel on anonymous says. Thanks for talking about the last of two I love the first game but was hesitant about the second one because I'd heard so many negative reviews, I'm GonNa buy it now on the side no, I was so positive that the Ellie Ellie was bleeding play by ellen page but what's the prize there was another actress can't wait to play part two. Yeah honestly I'm and I don't play the game. Let's fix. Them had a lot to play with the lot of them bad reviews because. You know. A young lady playing like the main character and Y'all know how they is when when women quote unquote storylines focussed around women the game he gay people come out to come out woodworks well that and she's gay. So that was a big part of it. and yeah. I'll just leave it at that. It's a lot of stuff narrowed advocacy people. Being upset by whatever but it's mostly just fucking Game Gate Nerd Nigam? Like I'm not paying them. I don't have to respond to know. He says, thanks for taking a taking up the time. Taking up the last two. I love the first game but was hesitant about the second one because I heard something negative reviews. GonNa away. This is okay. So for the first one said anonymous was okay. All Right, cool and manned Apollo was. Have you ever microwave fish in your workplace? Yes or no care? Yes. Yes. The. Only thirty five percents say yes so I guess we're bad officemate. Heat it for long and shit like that because she can stink. I hate it for as long as I need to get my meal. Delicious. Okay. Because see the thing that people talk about fish smells delicious. Eaten it. I. Don't have a focused office place. It only stinks to the people that that ain't get nine. I. Put that on a shirt because it's true. Fifty five percent. Say No. L- AKITAS. Per The poll, what kind of heathen apparently Baotou. In here right now. Okay. And so can fish pull an old and certain fish. The is not as strong I'm sorry we got the salmon. For for for lunch the next day I'm sorry. Okay. I. Mean going won't hot pockets. Be Mad. To you know I'm not in love. Thing I do miss about going to work is bragging about Joe Lunch because. What I do the containers, I like these special you close down. You kinda plump up the size and if you have fish heated up in and there's no older I love it I, know I know and they'd be here. The microwave turned I WANNA call you. Is it. Okay if our caller. Him Back says Pearl Akita, comment that he is me didn't somebody in the chat. Say It's on Nigga was microwave crab mix Oh my God I don't judge the fuck out of that Kunaria buffoonery is microwave. Wow Salmon knows shame in my game although microwave and might be in my past due to Gerona. Virus. It'll have to sandwiches or things we can eat cold. Oh Way. What the coronavirus not dying microwave Dole I don't know I feel like the microwave would kill the coronavirus. Noble. Into action fucking. I'm not going in dealing with five people over the microwave. Handle. But does she love it down with a white? Yeah I don't know these negative be mad they see me. Going there to the making instant coffee. Hot Cocoa Fuck that I'm not going initiate coffee pots I just walking back from the. Break Room my plate full of fish. Ain't no shame in my game and Kim. REMOVED IMAC away from it I was like y'all woman upstate ending but that's good way to keep the room they nasty. All right. Let's get to the voice mail. We had I believe one voicemail this week. For. My Allegra. To lovely it's Allegra I. AM distinct to your feet back in I don't know why but I always have to have. On. The feedback on colleague see back on the field that. I just love your your breakdown or talk about or discussion about voting suppression and. our ancestors and what we went through. She gets to the subpoena holes and how are still traveling like this that actually just came off one a backtracking on. With cleaning J. podcasts on trying to, catch? Up. With to. Give a really thorough breakdown. Skiing History of voter suppression and and I really love the way that they had their discussion to. it was on their episode job. So I know you've heard it already but I just wanted to kind of cheerlead for you and for you too and before you guys leading to clean and Jay and. Their podcast and how they got into a discussion of voter suppression in history and kind of. Power, it's still with today are eighty guys wasn't you and love into you and? Thank you Allegra I have you're right. I do listen to them and I have heard that episode and I did appreciate queensberry now because she really got into the fact that because I think. So this is what happens when I talk about voting. And it doesn't matter how clear I am about this. People that want to misunderstand or one assume ill-intentions hours go you blame him but people it is, and I'm not and I never have and I never will not black. Trump is not a candidate. We didn't vote for this motherfucker amount. We didn't do any of this shit. I will always be against black people who advocate for not voting I don't give a fuck. We are not at that point yet where we can just play with the vote I'm sorry. But that's and I wouldn't I feel dogmatic and I feel convicted by that I will not let it slide on my watch. You put your opinion out there. I get to put my come on. Those are the rules freedom of speech and all that Shit. So if you WANNA go around saying fuck it don't vote it. Don't matter anyway Blah Blah Blah you are entitled to say if I think that is stupid desire platform and that's why I say that I think that a stupid and foolish and ultimately dangers right? That does not mean black people are to blame for US losing the fucking thing the same way I would talk to some fucking white person I voted Jill Stein I wrote in Harambee I feel the same conviction of debts a dumb dumping to do especially if you claim to want some good. Is. There's a difference the thing where people like voted for lesser evils was look at. Iwo Good in a very simply quit simplistic way that it is a glass, right? One glass is full of evil to the Brim. The other one is half of evil. And they go you gotta drink from one of these glasses. I'm probably GONNA drink the one with less evil in it. That's just because what level has is some good what all the what? What the glass is just evil has is no good in this. So. Yeah. Anyway. I I mean like I said, I feel like those messages go together and and that's the thing I've talked about it on our show before like this isn't black people's fog 'cause I remember after the election you had white people writings fucking articles about black people dean come out to vote is their fault and I'm like voter suppression is real. Yes sir. Okay. Like like and the thing that bothered me the most is that people felt were complicit in that narrative weren't just white liberals who were angry black people erases it was also black people who then went. That's right we don't like Hillary. That's actually not what happened. They pass so many voter restriction laws from two, thousand, Ten till two, thousand, and sixteen. There were so many fucking laws passed they strip the voting rights act. Okay. They stripped it and we still came out in two, thousand, twelve and Got Obama reelected. And that's in the face of immense voter suppression. So you can't put it own us. We didn't do shit wrong. The handful of privileged black people who get on twitter and talk about how they ain't GonNa do shit fuck them anyway that. This is a small percentage, not enough for us to say they tilted the entire election agreed they are annoying they are shortsighted. Last arguments may not make a of sense that but that doesn't mean that they get the full brunt of the blame. For what the fuck forty and he's Nigga and did no no never. So yeah, absolutely. I want to encourage people to use the power to vote N. absolutely assets today die for it and. Period. There's no two ways about it unless you just don't know history or you refused are- they literally was like I'm GonNa die. Yeah, they were not knowing it was going back I have stories of people have literally I'm read one on the show. Yeah. doing. The poll in killed him when he got home, he knew he went to the pro they said, we're GONNA kill you. You cannot tell me that man didn't die for for us to vote you can. anyway. Emails Leslie Rice Fan Ballet Ballot Ready Dot Org. Which I think we mentioned on the show before back in the past but. It gives voters INFO on election is based on Zip code, local state, and federal elections. Details almost to valid in advance we I'm pretty sure have done this, but you put your address in and it doesn't just tell you like how how to vote. It tells you like here are the candidates here. There may issues. Not, fully complete, but it goes down to the local level. Ballot Ready Dot Org is the name of the website If I remember put in show up on people and things like that. Mr. Span. Right. Saying Unions listen twenty, one, forty, nine, where you guys are talking about the Rodeo venue and the unions. I don't know of Minnesota has done this or not. But what a lot of states have done, they've done this here in Michigan is they become right to work states many Republican legislatures Push forward, right to work laws et essentially in a way is a way to bake up the Union's ability to collect dues while simultaneously forcing union to advocate for workers who pay into it. Quite. A who don't pay into it. Yeah. Right. Quite a few of the guys I work with opted out of the Union membership wants the law here took effect white guys and by by large their attitude was at the union protect the people who desire to be fired and it was clear who they were talking about The thing is they are no longer paying to the union. The Union is compared to represent them if they ever find themselves in position discipline, but it also hurts the union's ability to contribute politically to campaigns. The politicians represent the union's interest in a state and national election. This could be the reason why they're seeing. We're seeing less effectiveness in unions which were already shrinking to begin with there being gutter They're being gutter for. Being I guess taking advantage of from with the GUT it. They're gut it from within financially and can't properly lobby on behalf of the workers as a result. Sorry. Email this nasty and talk about what the guys were just about every day talk to you later span. Yemen. Supreme Court ruling like last year I. believe that did this. The Union has still pay for the are still have obligation to protect workers workers no longer have the obligation to pay in. Pay Union. And they still want to get the benefits, but the the long game is. Without Union dues, there are no. Correct, and it's one of those things where people paying the union allied. You should rick the benefits right? We actually get our pay. In Union life, you will not get paid as much. You get paid if was for the Union, they will pay you. Possibly, ten to fifteen dollars less. Then, they do because of this union you want to unify. It's like you shit for free and it doesn't make sense right? Let's see. BLACKBEARD travelers. Preston writes in Hello Route Caring and Rod. Thanks for turned me onto blackbeard travelers. That was a fantastic episode. Thank you. Thank you. You know because that was the choice that I may allows gonNA. have him on was let's make this a conversation on episode no news. And there's like one half interview have conversation and it looks like a lot of people enjoyed it. You know and if they didn't, you know whatever they can come back tomorrow right? It's nice to know that I'm not too weird regarding my taste beers local a local beer is something my husband and I seek out when we travel Japan and Mexico offered fantastic and unexpected beer experiences who would have thought the south outside of Atlanta will offer so many great beer choices and now I know where to find black owned again. Thanks the podcast there There's always a new treat to discover a preston. Appreciate to Preston we out here we out here deep and mostly I appreciate you no longer putting. Teen droll emails let's. Call it `growth. All right the. Next email is actually a gift. Oh gotta give three mail from Douglas. WHO. says. He gives me cast the origin of our discontents by my girl Isabel Wilkerson, who also wrote the want them other sons, which is my shit a new she came out with a new book I don't I don't. I didn't think I had had a chance to buy yet but. I just hit click on that on that link player because the kindle gear, which is my favorite kind of book gift people say me physical books and I I hate to tell you. But. I'll read physical books that much I read kindle books like honestly some people have bought me physically giving me a physical copies and I turned around and bought the book on Kendo. So. I'm not GonNa ever read it just a physical book. I don't even put him on my bookshelf, my books, full video games, toys. This is really embarrassing. Really I'm not an adult at all. Br but thank you so much. Thank you. Sheera bran rice in. Hope you're doing well, enjoy your time off last week on the feedback show last Saturday someone mentioned the star started watching she was care has such great things to say about it. I have been considering watching for a while especially since that's my mom's name and she liked to show. When it got mentioned last week I knew I had to go for it. Wow. This show is amazing I started here is the bomb. I started watching it this week and I'm already on season five just started. So no spoilers I've always been a fan of shows we for young people that have great life lessons. The lessons on life friendship dignity loyalty purpose is so great. The CAST is incredibly diverse. I freaked out when I realize a kid who plays junior on blackish is bowl. Didn't know that I didn't. Wow also lower prom and then house like the same person, right? And catcher side that catcher her pride and selfishness all her friends masks, all her friends I abused relationships were her. Mean a hurts people and doesn't allow people to have friends outside of her saw. I'm excited to see these five inch. Thank you for this amazing episode. So also sees a five episode three with the spaceship thing I think is literally the plot to a different movie, but I can't place it anyway. Thanks y'all CABBIE feedback Saturday. They say you tune in. For Real you kind of play freeze play freeze on my screen and the nine thrown. The code stolen. Owned road last or so to throw him harmless. On, still robot. Is a robot and Y'all Limay by you will drink. All right. Let me refresh I know this isn't funny when you can't hear what the fuck I'm talking about. What you think about that. Episode Twenty Fifty One Karma I go by three Jones okay free domes. What? You ever in a movie, a Free State of Jones or is that not about you? Okay I. Don't know by the way I saw that movie it was not free Matthew, mcconaughey only fifteen dollars. What can we call fifteen dollars data Jones because that's what it comes. I mean free. Donald. Says what up Rod and Queen Karen I I would like to say thank you ties a tough down here in Georgia and listening to you guys during zoom meetings has been the bright spot on my work. Zone memes. Out, is born the eighth meeting today I'm tired of. I work as a teaching Gwinnett County and I think I can give more context to that news story. The two hundred sixty teachers that tested positive were self reported cases from staff who elected not to come into the building for the beginning of staff development. The school year will start online for the students thanks to that one blackboard member, but the staff will be in the building running on normal a normal school schedule. They also announced this week that they will slowly start phasing in students back in the building after school stars. This is the county bending to the parents who have been protesting the entire summer to let their kids in school doing the whole let them in the building a Gimme back my taxes shit. Every study I have seen so far include the students learn better from face to face learning especially once you consider the. Other services the school provides for student but. I mean, not by much of the curriculum for K. One special ED students is not strictly big book learning. It's hard to help. Akilah practice social and emotional at telling a fine motor control skills from the computer. True. It is clear to meet face to face learning is what is best but the country has yet to announce a safety protocol to keep us safe was to retire. So I'll say just keeping everybody asks home until January to prevent inevitable outbreak pretending things are normal isn't going to make them so. Many teachers are in a risk group, Kobe nineteen and county has the most cases in state Oh and they haven't cancelled any of the fall winter sports or high school for high school either Dan is going poorly yes. In every school district that has opened up a done from what she does Lama camps. What happens is outbreak is always now break number. Shoot up into counting the numbers go overnight. You can't act like it's normal just because you wish it are you willing to go back to normal is everything has changed and I just want to the parents. Particularly, the parents actually are forced to go back to work because somebody has to watch key is because odds are you're not gonna today because most daycares on open up. Depending on what the structure of your laws is and so is very, it's like a catch twenty two when it comes to it as like. The the admitted the trump administration puts in these bad position because they don't give a fuck. They don't hear about key is catching it and don't care about pay. They don't care about the population dying they just don't care. Desert, right San Diego Luna, and riots head. Rot in past episodes you mentioned that you would like to see a modern day talk show like those old clips of James Baldwin William. F.. Buckley there's a show called Pan He circle, which is bread and circuses in English Hosted by actor Diego Luna on Amazon Prime in each episode, he hosted dinner to talk about one-sided issue. There are different groups of about six people are so aside included scientists, artists, pinker activists, and journalists for each conversation I watched episode to about ending gender based violence even though in. Mexico. Many of these are the same challenges apply here. Not. Everyone agreed about the best path to move four and it was heated at times but it was respectful and there were no Gotcha moments. No one was a pundit right in the rattling off talking points. Yeah. I do. Yeah. That's the main thing that kills me now. People think that's the same thing as bringing on a yell each other and they all they're doing is yelling each other today can talk commercial break. It's like a horse watching two boxers swing at each other. So isn't that a conversation right because you need some time some space to make four points if they're intelligent, it was entertaining without being political entertainment. I think Diego Luna might be listening to the show if he is. Thank you. you do great work Diego. All right I think he in Terminator am not mistaken. Movies. He was in I know he's in narcos. so A. Book of life. Though. Oh. Yeah. Play Kassian and or. Road wine. That's why known from okay. Charles Hunters. Good resume. Beckham trophies. But yes, we sure do anyway didn't come here there are. A few. Climate Change I hope you an audience will give it a try show desert. Thank you. Thank you. Lastly Girl Cam. Doc. Who Says Karen My love yes hierarchy. My also love. What's going on? Yeah I can add it hard. I'll let you guess which one was what's going on Y'all Well, we know better than to do is Mac caring loving husband. That ain't my type of carrying on we not the break, the church, this angering leaf. That what it is, people say they location and not me because y'all think is going to be some type of romantic. Jealous Situation. I know there's not jealous bone in my body. All right. So they like to live to I don't know why they all these years of US owner. Listen this offense which all came. Break US up. All right. If it didn't happen after. You know all these other things happen in life. Okay just. We may do nine eleven. Okay. We can make it through you know people now like. The last season, a game of thrones. We can make do that. We can make any time. It's GonNa take some hard emojis. So I don't saying okay I need to see titties minimum before I'm willing to lead this woman now just. Was GonNA. Say you want to get famous. I did I did simultaneous though so you did that's right. What's going on Y'all. What we know shot missiles can cases. Well, we know better than to do is Mac on cans Hudson yellow that ain't type care our say this far no pc I find it interesting how much as we blacks would like to share the car dashing out of the culture the people responsible for the culture said now niggers the voters are invited deal with it. Well you know I didn't think about this. I was reading my girl males. just now and she brought up a great point. People thought. That the shooting of Mega stallion must have had something to do with her, not liking the Kardashians and Kylie Jenner and not one. Tory lanes hanging out with them. That's that was one of those speculations wanted to big rumors was like and that's why he shot her because they be him because he hangs out with the Kardashians. s O having her in the video immediately squashes that. Immediately squashed that because we know for a fact, she heard that she the people were saying and that she was paying attention auto rumors and stuff. So actually a big statement. To be able to say like now we cool. So. Fuck them lodge out here and shot me and my feet, which is, what are we GONNA do? Allegedly, allegedly allegedly. Picker. I recall when Tiger and Chris brower doing albums interviews together. You know we're tally was sixteen and Tiger was cheating black China with him. Even back. Then Chris was essentially telling Tiger hot ninety seven what stood out to me was that Chris was adamant about Kelly and kindle being quote unquote their home girls. So even though I don't WanNa, see colleague get a look in the white video that ain't my business. I mean technically the only qualifications of being a video was having a whereas pussy and we don't know World Pussy Moisture content is like I'm not going you know like who knows maybe they had a contest and it was like you in you who knew I don't know what the qualifications was just annoying to me, but I typically avoid them so and so healthy. There you go I. Love that even with everyone throwing backlash doors. The video broke the Internet has Republicans who somehow mistaken we happened upon the video. Right we talked about that on. On our. Episode. Like I said I'll put the episode out later just happened upon video like you just have is six. Object to this twenty times by accident and I'm pissed I autumn gluts Imam face I couldn't take I was disgusted thirty seven tour. Jacked after that thing. But yeah. No no, they weren't start your for a ridiculous live tire in a complete meltdown. My favorite part of this of Republican lawmakers be pissed about a song and a video about whereas Pussy when Donald, trump was will grab their wise pussy when they leader own, right You could take door number two is shut up in my your business, right? That's the reason. I didn't even want to engage him off I. Guess It's all theater. We good over here. Good. For Cardi, and Meg and all the other women in the video it could be worse get the bag I guess L., O.. L.. and Ain't my bag to get man of y'all WanNa have her video for three seconds. It don't matter. It's not like you can hear it on the song and I've heard meets reviews when people on Amazon just wow y'all's. It'll pass just give it a couple days. Like, we was talking about it was black hanging all week last week everyone think piece in an argument over the head. It'll be for this weekend and somebody put some other shit out next week I don't know. I'm also enjoying the Meta commentary from these twitter niggers that are utterly clueless about the female anatomy but that ain't my busy these Nagisa once again, avoid of always they don't. They don't know how you know destruction woman's body. The fact that a man feels the need to say anything not Any. Actual opinion. I saw a video and you know the feeling I can't even with appreciation they didn't have to show me that. Thank you ladies. Okay. Hours able to social distance and cheeks what the fuck is. Like I don't like it. Was Funny to me tenderly this benefits you but pot for men and beneficial. You know you don't wash them finance women torque moving dance in front of them. But you know Deleye I got to say something they can help themselves shut the fuck up. The fog is black girl party Tom, and also day talking Shit. Anyway moving drinking water fight off the ashes of the Internet is be safe dot Thanksgiving thank you and I believe that is everyone's emails and it's right at the Buzzer. So we can wrap this bad boy up Karen. Yes. Thank you as always for being here I. Love You I love you too.