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#184 Lindsay Davis on Life: A Burning Ball of Desire
"Welcome everybody. It's time once again. For the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life. And your hey charlie. Hey paul on our show today with lindsay davis. We explore the very core of human existence. I think we can sum it up. Best with the words of psychologists phil sutherland who said as human beings before we are anything else we are burning ball of desire lenzi and i prob- the role of bernie desire and every single move. We make we are desire without desire. We really are barely more than automatons. But with desire we're hungry we are fruitful and we can find extraordinary pleasure and productivity in life and. Why should our lives not be pleasurable and productive. Let's find out on my conversation with business. Life and performance coach. Lindsay davis lindsay davis. Welcome to the next chapter with charlie. Charlie good to be here talking with you again. Thank you for having me. I was enjoy our conversations so much you know lindsay from our many phone conversations. I'm going to guess that you are a brilliant business in my life coach because you always impressed me with unique insights and perspective never fails. Well you know the only as good as the conversation you're having so you bring it out of me and I think together we we get into some pretty fund topic so redo talking with you. I sometimes how many times have we said think we should have. We should have recorded our phone call. That was broadcast. Yeah i did Pressing record yeah. Yeah i think. I think we are. We are woven from the same cloth of the same. I guess that's the way you would say. It isn't whirlwind from the same cloth woven into the same month. We our our. Our view of life is very similar. Yeah i agree so lindsay today. What i wanna talk about. I'm into I'm really into this idea of desire just as a as a comment and per as as a content and personally i'm into desire myself like i had a guest. I think it was last week jaime lerner and and she called herself a pleasure junkie. I can relate to that. It's not that looking only for pleasure and having fun and being no crazy and wild. But i find enjoyment from so many different things in life and i personally have lots of desires sometimes. There are people desires mission desires and sometimes just purdy selfish taking care of myself desires. Do you have things like that as well. Ideal and i love the word that you chose which is enjoy it. Desire and enjoyment and pleasure can be really misunderstood as just superficial hedonism and But i i think really like who are we without desire who are really without enjoyment or sparks of joy. I don't know where that leads us. Except in you know shades of gray no pun intended. And even that's debatable. Joy you right you could. You could really talk about that. You know i once had a psychologist. Tell me and this has been one of those things that have lasted several years in my life. It and guided much of my thinking that i had a psychologist. Tell me that we are born abolish desire that. That's what you know. Infants have desires and we grow up with desires and those desires somehow get get squashed because of social construct and parental constructs and we lose our personal desires and start playing by outside desires. But he but this psychologist said we're born ab- all of burning desire and that desire drives so much of who we are and what we do. And i personally really resonate with that. Is that something that you feel in your life as well. Yeah i love that phrase and a half to write that one down burning ball of desire. It reminded me. I would contemplating actually the topic of desire and it reminds me of having like an energetic metabolism. We like put it in the metaphor with like an appetites. You know a human bugden had any appetite to speak about. We don't consider that a healthy human and there is something about having this desire hunger and aiding a burning ball as a great free for that by it to me. Indicates healthy human. And i and i think you're right. I think a lot of times. We are shaping condition either the way we grew up or the culture or the context that we find ourselves in as adult told what we should desire what we should be hungry for and we come become really disconnected from our energetic appetite. And we just start going through these wrote motion and you know. I would question just like an physical body just like that. In the inner the energetic body like how healthy of a human how healthy of an is that so disconnected from their own. Desire makes perfect sense to me that we have this. I like i like the energy idea because energy certainly comes with desire in an we. We don't have energy around things that we that we don't desire so much of our childhood is spent almost disengaging us from our desire and pooh-poohing our desire and say those are things have childhood. You can't think that this is a and we start getting bombarded with social expectations and parental expectations. And you know. God bless parents. I'm one myself but we can tend to have what we think we would have wanted or we would have need needed. And we put that sort of conformity or those sorts of ideas on our children and they're not always consistent with the way. Our children are constructed. Are you know the the the g. and psychology emotionality and in history of experience of a child could lead them to very very very different desires from what we have and yet they feel guilty. Can't feel guilty for desiring that that desire. Yeah and you know it. Sort of goes to the way i know. There's been a shift in psychology but really the understanding where that we use to have. Is that humans were static that were static and what we desire who we are. How we think in truth will really bird were very dynamic and so even having a thing that sell permission to evolve and desire different things and maybe what fit you or how you would have defined yourself or how people saw you at one point no longer fit than really giving yourself permission to explore and have curiosity and energy about other things i think about a huge permission that we have available as as people and I wish that we were reminded of that. More ghetto used to big words in my vocabulary. Curiosity and explore those are essential traits or me personally is that i'm a very curious person. I'm i'm always ready to seems like i'm i'm constantly ready to be told not so much that i'm wrong. But that i have incomplete data. That i don't understand the situation when i understand the situation better my expectations of my desires or somewhat altered but they are consistent with me yet it leaves a realm of egocentricity and into the realm of operating in a world view if that made any sense whatsoever after i said i said oh. Did you use some big words for me charlie. But it. But i like i follow you. Saw update like this and i see quite a bit when Many times start with somebody. They've been so disconnected from what you know that ego centric like they re there been told. Their desires are wrong. They've been told how they should be or kind of the rules of the game That they're playing and they're so just connected that a really practical question can really unsettle batman a mccown them and i'll just ask am what would you. What do you want and comprising. How hard that one simple question can be when one hasn't really been connected to their energy metabolism to their hunger their desire their curiosity for longtime they actually don't know and that becomes a really fun process like that exploration of discovery back to their own soul and their own desire and their own artistic inquiry. Going to go back to your words of curiosity exploration. Because what they can do is they can arouse once again. Arouse a dormant desire inside of us that we have a desire is spent so long since we looked at it or we even had permission to look at it or consider it because it seems so often if we go for our desires where were view that were egocentric or self centered. There were not considering the needs of other people of worldly considering our our selfish needs. And and i just did a show last week on self care and we just talked about you. Know lindsey if if you don't take care of yourself who will end until you take care of yourself you are truly not prepared to take care of anyone else and if you are a false self a self that is not representing you but it is representing the culture and the mail you around you. Then you know you're going to have a hard time. You're going to have a hard time for filling in and serving the needs of other people if you're always so needy and yet for almost an unknown or a shameful need. I think you're really onto something. There's a nuance they think to desire in need and i think it matters where sources coming from. There's an innocent to that. going ball. Desire the were born with the innate curiosity we have and you know culturally if we just go back historically If everyone had just sourced what everybody else is doing and then trying to learn the rules of that going through the motions. There would be no innovative edge. There would be no next frontier. There would be no pioneers of any industry and so i think curiosity is so essential to innovation and creativity and inspiration and benefits all of us. Avon the distinction between neediness whether a desire is coming from that any burning desire or a misunderstood lack inside like an emptiness Eastern philosophy they talk about the alleged or the archetype of the hungry ghosts always seeking never satisfied and that reminds me of like desire soared from desperation or mead. Well put desire source from separation or separation from desperation or need. Yeah rather than from this created desire for your needs for your unique self. That i find is really important. You know one of the things. I was thinking about as we get as we get. You know we're talking high level here and i wanted to get a bit practical points. I mentioned that. I just you know that i find you. A brilliant business coach life coach unique insights and perspectives. And so you have. You have some very. Maybe what i would call them. Unique ideas about what you're coaching. Life is all about whether they're unique or not there. Lindsay davis ideas. You have learned from other people but you have not necessarily co opted other people's desires you've incorporated them into what. What is your personal life. That's my that's my observation of you. So i'm curious lindsay. What does what does the role of desire. Play in your approach to your personal life and your career. How does your personal desire. Impact your life and your career. Yeah nate so appreciate that question and think for me. It played a role of an artistic medium. If i can put it that way so even though i am a business coach of life coach performance coach. I really come from an artist perspective. I live sleep three. That move it and so i think of everything as a medium to express some deeper fulfilment or explore a next freedom 'cause really confidently honor that next self expression and a note with myself. I i definitely use those skills with client but desire become almost like a path through the woods. You know you can travel that well-worn trail like a huge trail that everybody hiking and we used to live in the city and getting out in nature whenever you can is great but you're just sort of walking in a line of people on a well trodden path. And that's nice at some level but desire for me in the artistic or professional realm. How i live at now is finding those pathways through the woods on this like a narrow game trail or a place where there is no pass and you really have to rely on your inner curiosity the spark of interest the places that have you take a second glance and as you weave together and really follow that path at the time. It kind of looks like connect the dots you know you. You don't really know it does make sense. I don't know. Maybe i don't know what i'm doing. But if you can hold and have a level of self trust and alignment with your values and what's meaningful to you. You get to have these moments where you look back and the dots are connected and that pass through. The woods has brought you one kind of pinch me experience at a time and we've lived a lot of life in between those and to me. There's so much freedom and joy and interest in that kind of way of doing business kind of way of self expression and just infusing a little more life into these years. We have on our in on the journey. You were talking about down that path part of it calls for a really difficult thing for us because we are so filled with thoughts. You know the monkey mind has so many thoughts going on as we're as we're walking even in nature you know we've got our mind is typically not even in the nature that we're seeing where we're thinking and doing other things and it calls for in order to have successfully access that it calls for an acute pain attention in it's a paying attention to what would absolutely is around you and then in tueting from that but i think if we don't pay attention we're never going get it that we've got to. We've got to give ourselves. Permission is paying attention and permission giving ourselves permission to listen to those to listen to those voices that resonate with wherever we are right now that were not two steps ahead. We're right exactly where we are right now and that is so difficult that is just so doggone difficult cannot curious paradox or like attention between two realities Hito humans were so funding. Here's were either like three steps ahead into our future. And whatever we imagine that to be neck Or were way back. Or i in our path and Whatever experiences that means to us in where we are. We're in this monkey mind but his head Bouncing back and forth and there's relatives peace when we find ourselves presence and awake and and you can feel our future plan and having hench analogy about where we're going We can acknowledge our past and honor our experiences were also really oriented in our present centered being and how were showing up and what. We're up to right then. There's a really practical way. Because i know this is a little conceptual. There's a really practical way of practicing this. Because when i'm working with clients they know were big. I'm big on practice What we rehearse to become when somebody is saying well. How can i be aware more aware. And how can i be more focused. Those are two mental skills and so when somebody's practicing. Let's just say meditation. They set the timer. Let's for five minutes and they just open their awareness. Notice all of this thoughts Can notice the sound can notice you know the feeling of the light on their eyelids can notice how their body is feeling if it's feeling tighter whatever they're practicing wider expansive environmental awareness They can also bring awareness to their inner experiences but they can also use another meditation technique which has focused. They can do it really simply. I mean it just again. Set the timer for five minutes. I'm not gonna lie. This can be really in excruciating. But if somebody's willing to do it their training focus if they can just count their brass for those five minutes and good luck with that. You know one two three four five nine ten and then and then repeat rather than try to go to. I do ten and then sometimes five or six. Because they're even numbers. And i do ten one county one is a breath into his breath out and i count ten and then just start over again. So i'm i'm doing my counting when i do that. You know what. I i find that. That's helpful for people to know the other two ways to train awareness inner and outer And focus so that they can start to hold up paradox or tension more gracefully in their life You know so much of the time. Speaking of rules were used to meditation being taught as a good to do And there's a million ways to do it. And and i find that it's really helpful for people to understand. The context of what is helping them develop more than their life. Oh and there's such high expectations i. I've tried to lead people to meditation. And they say well i just can't get there. My mind is too busy. And i. And i'm i'm all over the place and i said well join the crowd. I've been meditating for four years now. i still. that's that's the thing that i wrestle with the but the one thing that is noted in in my instructor is that to not concentrate on the thought but just name it thought and say okay now. You're dismissed you're not needed. Then i have my moments of quiet meditation and then another thought will come up and i noted he calls it not it and i note just the concept thought that is thought and i need to to just kind of pass that on by law myself to think of it later but nonetheless even when i have that lindsay i have to say just as an aside I do twenty minutes and just the fact that i am quiet. I am not moving. My my brain is is going from inner peace to nosiness but just that process just by itself of that twenty minutes of quiet and of not moving of not not walking around not thinking of anything not listening to music but just listening to my own mind has become essential in my life. it's become it's become very very helpful and other people say well. That's that's a distraction and my response is what isn't life is a compilation of distractions. Yeah chosen distraction or default. You know that you know one thing. I noticed about you in every conversation we've had is you have a level of awareness and relax graciousness in your state of being an so. No it does speak to twenty minute In it does seek to the years of meditation. That i really found to mean. It's not just that we do our time in practice and then and then we go about our life. It starts to influence how we show up and the person that would become like we're able to reconnect with the meditative moment and live closer to that. State of centered presence Over time and it may take a little bit of practice in time but it does influence your inevitable. I agree thank you an- and and i and i think what thing that does that does happen is there is a. There is a graciousness to the second half of life. You know as you grow older and you grow out of the you know. The immediate overpowering ego needs and your needs become more spatial energetic spiritual if i may know your energies there and hopefully what we can attain an older life. But we are all. I like to look at it as we are. We are soil. We are not so much the plants we are the plants. But we're the soil and we prepare the soil and even though we can have very rich and multi soil in nevertheless needs nutrients. And we're always planting or abbey nutrients to that soul. And that's what meditation is about. That's what prayer is about. That's what self care is about and taking care of ourselves. It's all about providing nutrients so our souls can grow our inner selves. Our inner desires are as my friend. Terry says our comfort in our own skin that lies a lot in nutrition of are so of of our soil of the soil that we planted in. I want to come back to that in a bit. What i'd like to do right now is take a quick break and then i'm going to take us on a little journey. Hi there. this is charlie hedges in. You're listening to the next chapter. With charlie and i have my very special guest lindsay davis who is i think. One of the one of my brightest friends. I loved i loved to speak to too bright people and she is so insightful. I kind of want to go into taking a look at how does desire lindsay. And how does my personal desire and we will by the end. We will talk about the dark side of desire. I'm not going to pretend that desires all pure and beautiful that there is a shadow side desire. But before i get there i'm thinking i'm thinking about life. Goals and purpose in life and life. Goals and purpose in life are a big deal. You know we don't know each other well enough but you know this is a big deal in my life. I have you know i. I wrote a book Getting the right things right reinventing the life that you want end and it had about life goals and passions and desires and and. I'm a strong advocate about purposeful life. Planning and and i believe that if we aren't intentional about our lives our lives will be intentional about us and we can easily fall into a rut and find ourselves being controlled by circumstance. And not intention. So here's my question for you based on that. Let's say lindsay davis. You're beginning a new chapter in your life now. I'm not thinking so much. I'm not thinking that you're going to do a total change. You're going to quit being a coach. But that you're just going through a period of refocusing and you know you want you want to refocus. You're approach with your clients your approach with yourself with your daughter with your husband each day in this new chapter. You have choices that you bring to what i'm calling the starting gate. I think we had talked about that before. There's a there's a starting gate each day and there's a starting gate to each new chapter. You can always allow some obligation or some external pressure to guide you into that chapter. But what if you were willing to choose desire to accompany you to that starting gate instead of obligation because obligations so frequently comes to the starting gate do have experience of obligation that has led you to your starting gate rather than the lindsay davis desire. I haven't mixed relationship with word obligation as a former definitely people pleaser and you know work a lot with the the good one of society who are so good at performing to standard but like what you're saying around know if we're yarn intentional and deliberate about how we choose the show up in our life and what were about other people will do that for us and so you know you get to choose either way as far as obligation versus in intrinsic up. I look at it as external you'd be externally motivated By people or external circumstances. But i find much more powerful ways being in life is intrinsic intrinsically motivated are intrinsically driven and. That's really done by passion and curiosity and a sense of purpose. So if i'm gonna period in this comes up so much with clients. So i can make this really practical charlie for listeners. If i'm in a period of reinvention and maybe not full overhaul transformation that many transformation a look at it as a real alignment and so the first step for me is to spend a little time revisiting re clarifying. What's most important to me. What are the values or the traits. That i wanna be about or i want more of my life or i would like to express more and i look at them as adding another color or texture to our piece of art which is a masterpiece of life and though and racially all find a little bit of time and tuck it into a week or so to really marinate in. What's important to me. And how can i better align myself in living out those values then on a daily basis. Like what you were saying around the starting gate were really easy. Way of starting an intentional morning and wanting morning ritual get really complex. Everybody has you know kind of their their way that they see they want to do it. But for me it can be just as simple as waking up taking a deep breath in and welcome Welcoming myself into my day and then choosing what do i wanna be about today. And just choose one word. I'd like to bring the kindness to today and then allow myself to embody that through the day to walk with kindness to speak with kindness to infuse it in how i am with my so And how unlike my work and anybody. I need so we have this way of practicing the values in choice points in the starting gate and then eventually they kind of work on us and we end up becoming not more inviting more opportunities that allow us to express the traits more. That answer your question yes. It answer my question. It gave me a couple more now. That assumes kindness is one of your internal desires it is that time. Of course it always value that i hold but it just depends on what am cultivating more certain periods of time. Yes and i see that that kind is it seems essential that is integrated into because i do agree that we have obligations. And we just because we're thinking of ourselves we can't ignore obligations but that kindness becomes integrated in the obligation and then that obligation becomes truly an experience of our desire that we are shown that we're we're able to reveal our kindness into express our kindness so we're expressing and enter desire but in such a way sometimes in an obligatory fashion or others but it's serving other people is not just about me when i get a hold of myself and i understand my desires then i am really capable of working with others so much stronger than i could be if i was only focused on them. Because i would using your word. I would no longer have the energy to proceed. Yeah and you know we can only somebody in need them as clearly as a willing to be with ourselves and our own and you know the tag back to the word obligation the one that i like to you more even with things that we we do need to that are important to show up a to have a consistency or grittiness dependability. About us i look at than as commitment so that. I'm always shifting the responsibility and the choice point back to myself or if i'm working with a client back then There can be this passive not as well. I have to do this. And i guess they should do. This ought to and if we listen to the energy of things shirt or half to actually really young It reminds me of being a child. And mike have to clean my room or else if we wake up to this reality that we are we are adult and we get to be at selfish as we choose to be an all of the consequences of that We also could be as giving as they wanna be but to look at it as. What are you living commitment to today. And when i see something on my calendar and i say and committed his showing up because This is important for knee to you. Because it shifts that back to autonomy or self ownership and i find that that that freeze that channel up in inside again to access passion. And what's the attitude. I wanna bring this and the effort or the healthy rigor So that i'm not you know dragging my feet and and and really draining the energy. You'll see once again here. You go with insights and perspective in that a commitment is an internalized obligation and where it is obligation as external something. I have to do something i hate to do. A commitment is something. I've made a choice on that. I have to do with and maybe not be the grandest thing that i look forward to do. But i'm committed to do it. Because i have the capacity i have the desire to serve either dire desire to do good for other people and so that obligation is getting filled job choice not by some external pressure of people or or peers are god forbid religions which are pretty obligatory. I just like the idea of commitment over. Obligation obligation seems so so down in so so oppressive and commitment seems in. Lightning are refreshing. I like that distinction now. Well-fed you reframe that so well and just a dial up that flame the little bit. Charlie you can even go one step further so you can say obligation you can thorson as commitment but if you really wanna play your your edge you can bring devotion And so looking at those things on your calendar or is that you have you know the activities. That are a commitment for you. This is the devoted to doing today. Because and then were even you know turning that flame back into We're not looking for the activity to bring passion and inspiration to us. We are bringing the energy of inspiration or passion to the activity. Regardless i liked the devotion to keep. You know. you're going layers deeper. I liked that devotion really well because because we begin with obligation and move to commitment and then devotion for me just that word connotes a purity of thought and a purity of desire a period of purity of intention that i am devoted to doing good things with my good things like that. You know i wanna i wanna i wanna switch tracks and i wanna go a bit from because we've talked about about desire taking care of self. What's important to me which can lead to obvious. Questions are these talking about narcissism and i'm all that's important and i don't think we're i doubt that people have gotten that but i want to be careful because there really is a shadow side of desire. Is there not. oh yes. i'm glad we're we're touching on. The hopefully people have understood the point. We have not touched on the side of desire but happy to go there now with you. How would how would you describe the the the shadow side. I think the word obsession come to mind. When i think of the shadow side of desire in you know in a healthy desire like a healthy appetite. There is a pain in pleasure. But i think obsession is the suffering which is very different than pain or pleasure. It's their the death for rations to it. yeah on the dick of quality. That comes from a lot of fear and emptiness boy you you you touched on. What what. I was thinking as well. And you know we look at the obsessive side of desire. Which is you know. One notable example as addictions are addiction. But i am prepared to suggest that even addictions deception and obsessions begin with a pure desire. That are later corrupted and become sessions. And i'm thinking i just noted three examples of addictions alcohol food and sex probably our largest addictions that we have but all are pure and natural a drink to cut the edge of the day is there is nothing wrong with that food. I mean how do you live without food and sex is one of the most normal of all human activities and that is expected and yet and yet each one of those too much of it becomes an obsession becomes an addiction and then becomes a numbing of the dissatisfied or the unfulfilled self and we just numb ourselves so we don't have to feel anything but those pure desires can also backfire and work against us. Like i just read of an athlete today. The got fourteen years for rape and they. They listed all the things he did. And you know the guy no. I'm certainly not condoning what he did but he's obviously is sick. Human being there are things that are going on him. That are an acute sickness. That i don't think prison is going to fix. I think that some sort of some sort of Mediation would do a better job. Does it make sense that that are addictions begin with pure and natural human desire. Does i follow what you're saying. Can i ask you a question. please do. Yeah what do you think. Create the corruption is you said what creates what takes it from normal desire into corrupted addiction or yeah it's maybe twofold one is a deep seated. Shame or discussed with yourself or insecurity with yourself. All of these negative connotations. Come from what. I call the small self that is very fearful and you can take if one drink of alcohol feels good to drink feel better while a bottle must really be able to take care of it and we are no longer just sort of helping our ourselves. We're numbing ourselves. The same thing with food same thing obviously with sex is that you know once you've had so much you can't get enough and last week. We talked about this on the show. And and i use ice cream as an example and that I could be. I definitely could be an ice cream addict. i could drink. I could eat ice cream every day. But i ice cream about once every two weeks. But when i eat ice cream lindsey i don't go out and buy tiniest little things so i have a couple bites. I buy a pint of ben and jerry's with full intention of eating every bit of it. I'm not going to either half a pint. i'm going to eat every bit of it. But it's once every two or three weeks and so you know that's that's not obsessive. That is just. That's indulging we talked about on the phone earlier we had talked about indulging and i think indulging is a is a good thing as long as it doesn't become obsession so that's sort of my definition does. Is that helpful. yeah. I love that you know. It's like Almost whatever appearing in there too which has been my experience. Indulgence is a little bit different than obsession obsession and addiction. And the shadow side of desire one is not free One does not feel free. There's a there's like shackles to that obsession or addiction. And many times they do need help. ruin moving beyond that. You know in my work I don't work a lot necessarily with alcohol food or sex addiction but a seasons also with the dream being so addicted to the dream obsessed with that kind of castle in the sky vision when in reality they're you know i'll be working with a client who is not free doesn't feel free in their life so this might be somebody who can't let go of always working in their business or designing the perfect Artistic expression next but unaware not necessarily seeing that in the mundane human everyday world and they are abdicating their responsibilities as far as even just taking care of their bodies paying their bill showing up her family. It's a mistake. They've gone numb To what's going on in their present day reality because they are so addicted to succeeding at the dream. If that makes sense. Oh yes absolutely because the idea of the succeed of the dream is an obsession. Is it not and it's like if only it comes from healthy desire is start there yes it goes too far yes in that. I think that's important to note that the desire itself is not unhealthy but the abuse. We abuse or corrupt. The the desire think it's going to satisfy all of our needs when we get there and every time and i mean every time we get there we find we have not arrived. We never arrive. You know i think there is a there the misunders and graduate said you know that there is healthy desire a mess. They think there's a misunderstanding. Being taught in a taught in a lotta conscience can tease and spiritual communities creative communities than. I've seen it where because of the shadow side of desire with Like a dream or success or or A certain reputation though see the shadow side and make me desire itself selfish wrong and so they're they're kind of going for being free of all desire. Maybe i shouldn't wrong to want to make money at wrong. Could seek success in my career. it's wrong to desire could be regarded or respected in my field and the desire itself is clean And they're also than free to be at peace with the process of of discovering that or the journey of the coming or seeking those things but without the obsession without the addiction so that they're all awake to be joyful now to find offensive pleasure into so many now and bring that to the healthy hunger. If that makes sense. Oh yes. And i think and i and i and i think simply awareness of that and caution. Our desires could lead to obsession addiction or just an overdoing of of our of our desire. Sort of really compromises the beauty of desire so. Let's let's kind of. Let's wrap up our time here. And and say we're both advocates that desire we are driven by desire. Let's admit that let's accept that and let's try to appropriate that as much as we can. Because one of the downsides you know you had mentioned to me on the phone and it's to describe on air without drawing it out but a bell curve and on one side was a version of desire. Because you know we're afraid of where it's going to take. Is it going to take us to the lust of the flesh of the is and all these sorts of lusts or whatever. It's going to take us as as a stray. The top of the bell curve is just pure desire just as pure unadulterated literally unadulterated desire and on the bottom. Half of the other side is obsession. And so we have to be careful of those sides either version. Two to desire or obsession as a result of desire and focus on the top of that bell curve and to live in the purity of desire and at the same time building ourself our confidence our wellbeing our ability to serve and then going out and serving other people with that same passion with which we have developed. Yeah i'm so glad that you brought in the bell. Curve is one of my favorite Use a client. Because it's interesting. If you notice the energy of the shape of the bell curve and how we can really sent into this in our everyday life of version versus session versus that pure openness in the middle is on either side of the extreme. The energy get tight and constricted grassy closed and Trapped and in the middle. The energy is really open and free. and coin to express lindsay. You know what. I think i have never said this on a podcast but i think there's a book in here for us. I don't i don't think i don't. I don't think this is explored. I i really don't think desire. And the beauty of desire and the health of desire is explored to the degree that we've been able to talk to about it today. Mosey davis. Thank you for spending time with me today. Oh it was such a pleasure. i several. I'm always so happy to speak with you charlie. It's good to be here. I know kindred spirits. Tell our listeners. I'm gonna put it in the show notes but tell our listeners. How they can get in touch with you. I think the best way Especially if they're interested in the topic and the process of cultivating more curiosity passion. Purpose of it. What they're up to is to go to the path to possibility journal all one word dot com and from there. Any megan obviously have a link to pass the possibility journal which is the process of exploring Internal intrinsic desire born of curiosity and opportunity but they also there have access to any bonus resources there and they can get in touch with me. I'm always happy to connect with listeners. if they have any question that was stirred up from something we discussed today so we can put that in the note iffy. Well is your is your book for sale. Now it is. Let's make sure semi links on that. Okay so i can. I can get that in the show notes because i reviewed the book and it is excellent. It's it's really it's really well done for for getting in touch with your inner self and and who you are and how you can express yourself in life and what your passions are i i love it and i will put that in the show notes lindsay again. Thank you i appreciate. That and i'll i'll i'll do what i can to push your materials and i also want to thank all our listeners. Tuning into the next chapter with charlie and and as always please be sure to check us out at our website the next chapter dot life tell next. This is charlie hedge signing off by for now.
#156 Ashley Stanley: Limiting Beliefs
"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with Charlie hedges. As he explores turning the page on his life. And, your. Hey Charlie. Pau. Good to be here with you once again or does he talk radio I think today's show is so timely for June of two thousand twenty not only is the entire world continuing to contend with the limitations and restrictions of pandemic. Win The United States. Also find ourselves in time that calls for deep reflection both personal and social. Our show today is all about personal reflection and I so look forward to chatting with successful entrepreneur Ashley Stanley about the kinds of mindsets and beliefs that keep us stuck in our own sandbox. The intent of the show is to uncover some of our own. What Ashley so aptly named our own limiting beliefs, each of us possesses unique potential, but because of fear misguided understanding we are often reluctant to pursue that potential because of these limiting beliefs. My guest ask Ashley. Stanley is a business coach and an incredible brand and web designer. Ashley also empowers female entrepreneurs to do what she calls. What Ashley Calls Boldly do the. Dang thing and start a business online without having to deal with that feeling of overwhelm. Now I am keenly into this topic and and I think it's going to be fun, so let's bring on Ashley. Stanley. Ashley Welcome to the next chapter with Charlie. Charlie thanks so much for having me I'm super super excited to chat about this today. Yeah, and and and it's really it's really sort of current in your in your life right now, isn't it? I mean if you have a mastermind group that you're working through this with. Yeah so we are Yeah I have a group that is. Of Women that are launching businesses, and this is something that I worked through with all of my clients one on one and in the mastermind. Is You know before you can even jump into the land of launching a business? YOU HAVE TO I. Find those things that you believe about yourself, good and bad, you know leverage those good beliefs, and then learn how to combat those bad things that might limit you and stop you from pursuing your dreams. Oh, man, this is i. Actually I'm so excited about talking about this because we chatted ever so briefly for ten minutes on the phone about it, and I just said immediately. You WanNa, come on the show this is. This is I I. I think this is so relevant. I know you deal with women, but it's also relevant for men is relevant for everybody, because we all have limiting beliefs that are conscious, unconscious, emotional, socially driven personally driven. There's. So many things going on and I can't wait to discuss it but before we get into limiting beliefs itself I'd like to know more about you and your in your profession as a business coach and a brand developer. Can you tell me more about that? Yes for sure so I Gosh have run my own business for almost ten years now started specifically as a web developer and then as I was developing sites I needed to do more branding and design, so I branched out into that space. which is just so fun I love I love helping people create things new new ideas new websites all that kind of fun stuff, so that's been great and then. You, know I realized that while I was helping people build their websites, I really was helping them create their entire business. I would say around ninety percent of the people I was working with were coming to me. Saying I have a brand new business idea. And ended website and branding, but really what they ended up meeting was. All the way across the board every single part of launching the business and so I ended up. You know hoping helping them walking them through all of that so I've spent almost ten years helping women launch businesses and then in the past year decided you know what I want to. Focus more, you know on actually coaching, and saying you know I am I I. Do this I've done this? I have created a process and so I have one on one client, and then and have recently launched a mastermind, which is super Super Fun of Small Group of women who are launching businesses. Who say you know what I'm ready to run full force I'm ready to do this. I I always do it boldly jump out of their comfort zone, and and really attack it, and it's fun because they're working not just with me as a coach, but have other women who are doing the same thing, and so we're all championing each other through the whole process. That's wonderful. How frequently do you do you mean no you meet on is an online thing. Do you meet personally well now? It's obviously got to be remote. Yeah! It's actually always always online Each mastermind group runs for about four months. So they will be were all talking connecting now, but this this group officially launches July first And then they'll run for four months, and then I generally take like a little break in between and then launched another. Group! How do you? How do you? How do you find clientele? I mean that's that's that's that's fascinating. How do you find people who are interested in launching businesses? Do they come to you? Search them. It definitely a Max I am part of quite a few network in groups just women who currently have their own businesses. Women who are interested in launching their own businesses, and just kind of being a part of those groups and connecting with people either. They're people in the groups that say oh, my Gosh, that is me. I need help with this or they say you know what I have a friend that has been talking about launching business I'm Gonna I'm GonNa. Send you know. Send your your way. So, there's definitely a dot referral side, and then also just being in the space of just continually connecting with women who are saying you know I I have a dream and I've always wanted to own my own business and and so i. Yeah, just build that relationship with them, and then the deeper they get in in all honesty. What happens, is you start to launch your own business and you say I'm just GONNA be. Would all on my own, and then you realize there's a lot of things that need to happen, and it becomes overwhelming and you say. You know you either say okay me to work with. The coach helped me, or you say I'm just going to throw in the towel and I'm not gonNA. Do it so I generally connect with women when they're at that point and I say don't throw in the towel. Like let's let's work together. Let's create create something awesome. You know because they're they're there really? Is You know sort of a business strategy involved, but as we're going to talk about today. You know we get into our personal issues because our personal issues that really. Will determine the outcome you know our belief in ourself, our belief in our product, our belief and our ability to do it as opposed to all of these negative voices that say who are you to try to do this? And and so many of us have had negative voices, because we've received such negative feedback from parents, schools, and and even France, and you're going to do what you're not qualified to do. What and and and you have to kind of get over that, don't you? Absolutely that is you know. That's the reason in my whole. You know launch framework that I have. That's the very first thing I. Say you know what we need to tackle this I because? This is a roadblock. You'll continually keep hitting if you don't tackle it upfront, you know I would say there's there's conscious limiting beliefs things that you consciously go on I'm not really smart enough to do this or I'm not really. You know equipped to do this, but then there's those sub-conscious things to that you see that maybe always growing up your parents always said stuff about building building your own business as hard, or you know successful people like it's really hard to successful person, and you may not think those things consciously, but they're. They're in you. You know especially around those those young ages in your formative years. You're. You're creating those beliefs that you believe for the rest of your life so You definitely have to become aware of them. You know in order to even TV combat them, so yeah, that's definitely a huge Huge part of even being able to launch a business or really do anything big in life is to say what are these things that are stopping me that that I know you know that are are ingrained deep within me. Yeah, and and I just had a interesting conversation with a microbiologist, and she was telling me about dominant regressive jeans and Liles, and all sorts of things that I have no idea what she was talking about, but it was fascinating, and she gave an experience, or she gave an example of that the way our memories work when it comes to try new things or experiencing issues that the first. Impulse comes across our brain. Is Not the memory of the negative thing, but the emotion of the negative thing. We really don't even remember what caused me to be negative about this, but I have this negative emotion that just jumps forward, so that's you know sort of our sort of our our our think Charlie. Our defense mechanism against it is say oh. Don't go in there because you're going to fail, and you're going to look bad and people are going to reject you or abandon you and you're. You're going to be looked at as a pariah. Ariza dumb. Dumb. You Know so-called Wannabe Entrepreneur, but I liked I. I not necessarily liked, but I appreciated that. The emotion comes before the memory. Absolutely? And and and if we had the memory, we could attack the emotion, but without the memory. How do you attack the emotion? It sometimes it calls that memory can be a resolve to understand where that emotion is coming from otherwise, we're just dealing with fear on its own level without fair. Digested, logically a reasonably. Absolutely we actually and I've I've done this myself It's funny. Because I have I have worked through. Limiting beliefs, I think everybody will always have some limiting beliefs I've worked through this process that you know I've thought Oh. This is you know. They have this feeling and this is. This is what I think. It comes from and I kind of do this. Write it down on a piece of paper and kind of do this Like level so I, write it down, and then I draw down Arrow, and then I right where I think that that came from and it's always really interesting, because if it does take a while, but if you take that time to do that, you know you can come back to that memory, and you can say okay. This is the feeling the high level. I saw this feeling you know and. And and I had one like a failure thing, and then as I dug down deeper and I did each of those levels I realized okay, that was from this specific memory as I dug deeper but I definitely agree you know you have that feeling and you say okay, I don't I don't WanNa, feel like this ever again. Right? I'M NOT GONNA. Do this because I. Don't WanNa. Feel like this. You know and then you have to kind of figure out where that came from and then the other side of that is then you have to say well. What is the real truth? Right and say this was that memory or this was the experience that happened, and just because it happened once doesn't mean it's always going to happen or. Sometimes, memory is a little bit different and not the whole picture you know so then you have to kind of create true than combat it with this is the truth of that situation or the truth of what would happen if I ever was in that situation again. You know something that that that we had a guest on and it was. I can't tell you how long ago I I don't recall. You know we don't have A. You know. We're not one of the people with the thousands of PODCASTS, but we have over. This is number one fifty six. I've I've done this a couple of times And and. I had a guest on Jaime Lerner. One time was a psychologist. And she was we were talking about. You. Know I had a very difficult childhood. And I had the these images that they were in fact memories Ashley. They were not. You know I had the emotion from them, but the memories and they were of abandonment and rejection, and for about the first seven years of my life. And Right. She told me something I'd. No one had ever said before because I always view those emotions that I felt from that time of rejection and abandonment, rejection and abandonment, I had always viewed those from the eyes of a child. From. This is what I thought. She said Charlie would be helpful if you view those from an ice of an adult. Don't view it from Childhood Perspective View It from an adult perspective, and you take a whole different position on and I gotta going to tell you Ashley how helpful that was I mean that was. Just that simple sentence was just enormously helpful for me. Yeah that sounds I mean I'm just sitting here going. Wow, that's so. His in the NFC. I would love to take credit, but it was Jaime Lerner and I do want to have her back on the show again. She was really a a bright psychologists and very fun to chat with. Yeah, that's awesome. That's really fascinating. I think you know Mindset shift then have in perspective shifts. Can. Be Magical things I think you know even in small daily life you know, but thinking about things like that. It's the the. You know deep deep rooted memory, saying okay, let's look at this from a different angle. You know I've I've never done it, but I would love to go back and start doing that now I'm sure if things pop up, all think of that and say okay. Think of that through the is image. How does that? Does that play out now? Or how does that make you feel now? That was maybe maybe a year ago. And I've been doing that process, and then I I took an extended retreated the early at the beginning of this year riot six days of sequestered silence. You know which my listeners are familiar with but I. Just so you know I. was I had a room I was in Hilo. And all made no difference because they never got to leave the room, and I had a ten foot square space in front of the room. They delivered food, no computers, no phones, no books, only a handwritten journal, and you're a month in solitude, a month or six days and in total solitude. And believe me the experience of that and what I got to go through with me, and and and it was. It was all about for me. It was all about self. Love it all about I could love everybody else. I you know I was great at that and and people appreciated that but I really didn't appreciate myself to the degree that I would like, and it took that time of reflection, and it took that time of. Of forced silence and solitude so I I didn't have distractions and. And it was It was an amazing experience. Yeah that sounds like it'd be an amazing Amazing experience we actually talk about that player bit so I Go to I live in San Diego I go to a church down in San. Diego and we talk I I'm not great at the. Silence and solitude. I'm like it. I'm not so good at it, but that's something that that we talked about quite a bit in something that you know. Almost everybody. Else around me, says every time they've done it. They've just had such an amazing. Experience and just felt you feel. So much better. just being able to take that time and step away and. Spend, time with yourself and yeah. I think that's a great in amazing practice. Well, it's. It's like what you're with the limiting beliefs that we're going to talk about. We really don't want to go there because it's too painful to go there yet. We need to go there, but I is. It is a painful journey. You know because you're talking about. You're talking about things that you're afraid of. And that means that means not only. Do you think others disregard yourself for that, but you disregard yourself personally for it. Is a matter of fact, you probably less concerned. What others think than what you think? Is that you you know you don't even have? You don't even have confidence in yourself. For sure I think that that's definitely I know even for myself and I some Prinze that I've worked with. It's like I don't want to say out loud that I. Don't believe that I can do this or I don't want to say out loud that I don't believe that I'm good enough or smart enough To Do to do something you know you definitely almost like. If you say it out loud then you really believe it, even though not saying out loud. We all know that you still really believe it right, but if you do say it out loud, there's something about sanded out loud. This sort of cements it. Absolutely I believe. Yeah? No I one hundred percent agree. Thanks that you Kinda need to cement it in order to be able to move forward from it. I WANNA I wanNA catch that and if. There's something I definitely want to talk about now. Do you think you know one thing I wrote before we start talking and just one more sentence, be worry, start identifying. Limiting belief so our audience really gets an understanding of what that's all about This is closely related to negative self-talk it not. Absolutely absolutely it is. And say air. Pretty much the same thing. Very close. Yeah, the maybe maybe the limiting beliefs are sort of buried back in our brain, and once you do self talk and the negative self-talk. It could become much more obvious. I don't know, but you know what I know. Now's the time that we need to talk about. You know you mentioned a couple of them, but. Can you give me some examples of limiting belief so so we can all get A. Wrap our arms around. What are the limits millenarian beliefs that prevent me from seeking my potential in my opportunities. Yeah I mean there's a lot of A lot of different ones I think a lot of people have experienced different ones, but. I think especially in the starting your own business arena one. That I. Run into a lot is. It's just hard Building a business as hard making money as hard, and yes, there is hard work involved and so I always find interesting because West limiting beliefs there sometimes is like little bits of truth in it right so sure there's hard in making money, but. Making money isn't. In itself a really hard thing you know as long as you have it roadmap or you know. Owning a business is only for people who started off really well off no one no one in the middle middle area or lower be able to ever start their own business or You know. I didn't. I don't have the right degree so I can't do this or I haven't had enough life experience, so I can't do this or You know how no one. No one will ever listen to me. You know are some that some I run into actually quite a bit. Oh I could see. You could help people with that so much. So much because it, because it is it certainly from a history of experience. They've they've. They've experienced these kinds of. Kinds of issues, and that's why those emotions come up, but they are. They're. They're they're? They're faults. Were not trying to make them look any less difficult doesn't mean. because. They're false doesn't mean they're going to be easy. But with the right strategy with the right coaches, and with the accessing the right resources are knowing what resources are available to you. it is very possible as obviously as you see to to start a business and and. And I. You know, but you know you've got. You've got not only yourself to deal with Ashley you've got. Your parents have been telling you certain things about yourself. Your teachers, your peers, you've got the society and the culture at large. We you know we really have a lot of things working against us. In order to succeed, people think success Y-. You know there's a reason successes difficult. But it's not based on luck. It's based on sweat effort and a bit of crazy confidence, a bit of readiness willingness to go out and take a chance. Absolutely absolutely, I think you have to hit a point where you say. You know. I I don't i. don't care what anybody else thinks. Which is hard. That's a hard spot to get to to get to a point that you say you know what. The in this so much i. don't care what you know. My parents say or I don't care what my friends say or I. Don't Care What my fifth grade teacher told me when she said I would never amount to anything. You Know I. Don't care about those things anymore. I i. believe this and that's one of the things that I always you know when talking about limiting beliefs, I say remind yourself that. These beliefs. I'm not. I don't ever want to negate somebody you know and say you didn't think or you don't really feel that you. You do feel it, but it's more of saying. Even though I feel it, that doesn't mean it's true and so I always like to say take the belief and I actually have people listed out list out these limiting beliefs that you have and then right the truth next to it, so you can see very clearly. This is the belief that I have with. This is the this is the truth. So for an example. is I can't do this or I'm not good enough to do this truth is. I am good enough to do this and I. Have I have the skills and the capability in the capacity to do this. You know, and so every time this limiting beliefs starts to creep up. You can say nope. Nope, I know I believe that I know that that that's been ingrained in me, but this is the truth you know, and and have that to be able to look to all right I. So agree with you and I and and I'm sure that then the next step from that is creating strategies or tactics to say okay. This there may be truth in this limiting belief that I don't have. The wherewithal right now, but that's not because. I am. Not as bride or not as capable somebody else I just don't have access to the information I don't know the information I don't know how to create a strategy, and if somebody helps you create a strategy and tactics to overcome. Your work areas are improvement areas. Then you can see how cheese that can, I can I can learn my way into this, so you know I I didn't start. You know podcast you know I started this podcast with Paul I came to a class. He had a class. I was doing a podcast on my own, and he had a class. That was how to do a podcast ended up saying why am I doing this on my own when I can come and have a producer? And it just it was it. Was that simple and we've been together what Paul. Three years. We've been together quite a while quite a while. You know something something a story you know my producer always love stories so I have to tell stories every now and then, but I was. In carpet manufacturing and I was a You know I had a very good job. And I had I had one hundred people responding reporting to me and you know I was sort of in charge of this called wet processing division of a carpet mill, and that is everything that has to do with application of color on a piece of floor covering. you know before it's it's still in. You know still in woven state. It doesn't have a heart backing on it or anything you know we would. We would die way to put these big machines, but I decided that at thirty years old. I I hate using the word. I became a Christian got introduced himself to me. And two years later I decided I wanted to go to seminary, but for me to go to seminary I had although I had gone to college on an athletic scholarship. I quit it to become a fulltime hippies. I'm sixties guy. So you know I hit by motorcycle and travel across the country. You know that was more important than getting an education. And so when I went to seminary. I will before I went to seminary I, took a look at it, and I took a look at a couple of schools, and said my goodness. They're gonNA. Want Me To get my baccalaureate, plus then three or four year degree in theology, and and I said it's going to be I. think the way I had figured it out at the time Ashley. It's going to take me five years to do it. And I was thirty three and I said I won't even be able to enter the game until I'm thirty eight years old, and there was this forty four year old man that told me Charlie. Going to be thirty eight anyway. Do you want to be thirty eight? Doing what you? WanNa do or do you want to be thirty eight doing this crappy job that you don't like anymore? I love that. Isn't that a brilliant statement? It was the thing that turned me. It was the thing it was the thing that turned me now. I'm I'm I'm noticing my producer and what? He's saying I know. My producer is just about to give me a sign before we get really detailed. Give me a sign that we need to take a quick break. And then we'll be right back, okay? Hi There Charlie hedges, and we are on the next chapter with Charlie and I am so excited about my guest, Ashley Stanley who is an executive coach and a brand website designer and works primarily with women but her message is not only for women is met her messages for human beings, and we will talk especially about women in in a bit, but we're talking about limiting beliefs, and that we all have these limiting beliefs or negative self-talk that prevents us from. Continuing. To are not continuing to entering a field that we're afraid to. Because fear of failure and failure is not bad, but the reflects on. We feel it reflects on our person. Who Don't we actually that reflects on my value as a human being absolutely absolutely. Yeah so. I guess I. WanNa, know, can you give me? Tell me, tell me the story. A client that you've worked with that had. Limiting beliefs and you were able to work or through a process where she was able to develop. A business. An entrepreneurial business, do you? Do you have a story in mind? Yeah. Absolutely and this story as Unique as it is, it's also very common is. This woman said you know I I have a dream I have. Had this thing that in my heart I really believe that this is this is my calling. This is what I need to be doing in life but she every time we would try to Talk about it or I would encourage her to share her business There was always a block There was always something that was like. I know that this is what I WANNA do. I know this is that this is what I need to do, but I I. AM scared to share it with anybody I'm scared to put it out there and so we had to dig into those limiting beliefs and say okay. What are the things that you believe about yourself? What are the things that you believe about the Stream? What are the things that you believe about you? Know your your ability and It came down to and I think that this is something that. Women especially though. A lot of people in general it came down What's called? Imposter Syndrome which was? I as much as In my brain, I know that I know. What I'm talking about. My heart doesn't really believe. That I. Know what I'm talking about. And so what happens is you get this belief that you have is if I step out if I share my business, or if I start sharing information People are going to see through me and they're gonNA see that I. Have I'm a fraud and I have no idea what I'm talking about? That's a really difficult one to break through but it's also really fun one to break through because when you do break through a- like the flood gates open. You know and so something I always recommend doing it, and this is what we did. what I did with her was I said. Rate down the things that you now, so she wanted to create a course. and so I said right down the information. Right it all out and. Once, she was able to do that. She was able to look at the content and say I. Do know what I'm talking about I I clearly do. It's right here visibly in front of me. You know and just having that kind of which is kind of my three step. Process is identify the limiting belief. And then. Combat that belief with truth, and then create that action plan, so the limiting belief was i. don't know what I'm I don't know what I'm doing. and if I try and Pretend like I. Know what I'm doing. People are going to see me as a fraud. The truth to that was you. Do know what you're doing right you. You have the experience and you have the history and the knowledge. You know what you're doing. So then. The action plan was right it out. Let's let's put all your knowledge on You Know Google, doc dump it all out there and read it over and let it let. Your Heart in your eyes, and your mind all think up and see. That this content that you've created on your own is full of knowledge you know and then that allows you then to say. Oh, my Gosh! I do know what I'm talking about and breakthrough that belief which turn gets you to point where you WANNA. Share Your Business. He want to share. You know this new thing that you've created which in turn allows you to grow your business? Because now you're in front of the people who need to see it right, so that was that. Was You know one one story But again that's one that I run into quite a bit. Is that The impostor syndrome that? Concern of if I do step out, and if I do share this information I'm going to be. Called out as a fraud. On, my goodness Ashley to know how long. I dealt with the impostor syndrome. I was was I was I was in? I was a coach of of executives. That I know you know you know we don't know each other well. I was a coach of executives in my last job, I had five CEOS of billion. Dollar companies. And if you, if you looked at my at my resume my bachelor's degree. It was a bachelor of arts in humanities. I had no business degree I know MBA I had no no master's degree of in in Business Economics. And I was sure somebody was gonna find me out as an impostor. Even though I went in and I. Never Ashley I never marketed business. I only did it because it was all out of referrals, and it would be one CEO to another CEO say you know the the CEO. Say I'm having issues with it and they say hey I've got a guy for you. This is this is the guy yet? I always felt like an impostor was felt like you know. I've not been in this position. I've not sat in his chair. You know I I don't know what it's like to run a billion dollar company and yet you know I can think of a company that. I played a major role in taking them from seven hundred fifty million to one point five billion. By working with the CEO. And and but I had to do that. I had to finally take a look at it and say. What results are you delivering? What lives are you impacting and yeah? What is the pianist of the company? After you work with? It disappeared L.. Improve with your working with the company. And I got to the point where I said Gee I wanNA. quit taking quit taking wages, and just get a percentage of increase of PNL and. Yeah. But, but that imposter syndrome was huge. I you know what I WANNA do I definitely want to talk about. I definitely want to talk about the issue of women in business. And I, my wife and I. Are Large you know I. I really dislike titles of. Feminist are pro, pro pro-women journey movements and all, but we are very strong, and in promoting women, business and promoting women in general. Together strider started she. She's an executive coach and she works with. Both women and men she probably works with more men than women, except she has a group which I proudly say was my dream child and it was called influential women, and was I can remember the old tech groups and You know the CEO groups. Are they called now? They're not called tech groups. What are they called Well. We're we're in. Yeah, but but it's for CEO's, and so we wanted one for not for C.. E., O.'s but for high level executive women. That was the above that. was that our VP and above. And she she does have a meetings monthly. She does executive coaching with these women. She brings in a speaker. It's all non-competing entrance industries, so they can be totally vulnerable and candid. What's going on in my business I'm feeling about my business and they can get. Feedback from other women who are experiencing the same thing, and it's just a hugely successful two hugely successful business for her. And the women just just loved the group. You know my wife is also very. Extremely talented and a very successful executive coach but but. This is something that's that's part of our lives and we see. Men Certainly, face Is Just not our topic today? But we men certainly face limiting beliefs and negative self. Talk I mean it is, it is this is not gender specific we. We're just dealing with working with one gender, but that doesn't mean it's only women. Specific, however women do have I think they face Mauritshuis in a male dominated business society. I think there's there are there are? There are beliefs outside themselves that limit them, and they have to overcome nat. How how did they overcome? A limiting belief in a male dominated executive meeting that they have to. They feel like they have to be careful of what they have what they say when the truth is they will I think in many cases, and they only feel that way because the more vocal they are, the more accepted day become. Absolutely so. Gosh I have a really interesting background, so let me start with. I've from very entrepreneurial family. My mom has always own home business right now. She and my Stepdad are the CEO CEO and he's the CTO of a biotech start up in San Diego and then I'm from. Previously to this a tech tech industry worked at many development agencies and so We've both pretty heavily been and Heavily, male industry's most of Ohio So that was definitely something that Experience quite a bit. Was You know? What does it look like to have a female? Sit at the table. What does it look like You. Know my I, I, I call it. My I like big girl job. you know in a in A. Agency I was the only female in a team of. I think the whole company we had eleven people total, and I was the only female in the entire company. CAST was that. Did you feel any any? You know dare I use the word discrimination in any treated differently as a woman or were you accepted as one of the guys. Yes. It was very interesting I would say ninety percent of the time. Very much accepted I became really good friends with all of them to this day. I mean that was. Seven years ago into this day. Some of my best friends just in life are those guys that I worked with but there are definitely worse than times. Where you know we were a small team. It was also a startup and so you know in in those kinds of teams are kind of all playing. You know wearing every hat, because sometimes you just gotTa. Jump around and so. I can vary specifically pinpoint a few times where I would share a thought or an opinion on how How things could be done better or you know we could. Change the process in a discussion where that was opening, and it was welcome and it would be completely ignored until. Another guy said verbatim the exact same thing. Never couple times of that absolutely, but not Not, always the! One thing that I used to joke with them about, but You know it was. It was fine, but we would you know laugh. A little bit was I was a token female of the group, and so whenever we would do networking events or something they would always be like actually come. Oh Gosh I have to go and say. There's girls at work here, too. Here's our negative. Here's not are negative, but. Here's A. minority representative just to show. You cool, we are. There we are diversity organization. Yes yeah, so we used to. We used to laugh about that, but It was interesting because I actually while working at that company got a call from Someone hosting a women in Tech. Event and they asked me to be a mentor at this event and I remember you know an and it was for women who were entering the tax base, so women who had done Not sure if you've heard of them, but like the Tech Boot Camp Three Months and learning. Okay, so it was women who are graduating from those and we're going to be entering Entering the space and again this goes back to imposter syndrome That's exactly what I had done I had done tech Texas Camp I had entered the space and I was successfully working in the industry and they said. We want you to come in mentor and I literally said I I. Don't know how to like. I couldn't teach somebody how to do that and they were like. You did it though you know so, so that would Saudi. How did you overcome that? Did you do your your listing process to say what are the negative thoughts? And what are the things I can do without our where the limiting thoughts, and how do I overcome that? Did you go through that process? I. Did you know a I said you know I'll think about it. A let you know. I don't know if I really feel qualified and then that night. I went home and I was like Okay Ashley You. Did this. You know not the same program that they did but a similar program you. Daughter job and the same field that you did the program in you successfully been working at that job, you not only successfully or working at that job. But when the agency was being founded the owner who was a friend of mine, actually called me and said you are the very first person I want on my team. So you know, I had to kind of list out those things. My belief was I. I haven't done this. I couldn't teach somebody, and then I had to. Say. You know you have done this. You do know this gear in it right now, All you have to do is share your experience, and you've experienced it and so the action plan was okay. Let's go in and let's. Share my experience. I and you know. Yeah. I think he said something a just a bit back, but there is a a key noun that I think really click key concept that I think is very important. That can help. Both sides a feeling. That's the person that that's feeling imposter syndrome. And the person that they're admiring, and that is the building of relationships. The better we build relationships, the better we understand, each other, not as cogs in a wheel to get the job done, but we are human beings with vast capabilities, vast knowledge, vast difference of experience, and when we build relationships, we gained trust, and when we gain trust from trust comes credibility. Do you not think. I one hundred percent agree with that, and then I would also add onto that I. think especially women especially in the Tech Industry you go in, and you're being told this is this is a guy thing, and so you almost feel like you have to create the fake persona that you believe will fit in, and so then you're never able to truly create those authentic relationships with people because you're not being authentic and I think that. For me, I've always. Been Pretty able to be authentically myself with pretty much everyone I'm talking to and so That was. A great great to be able to be in there. Because I was being authentically myself I was able to. Build those relationships, and then like you're saying through those relationships, you're building trust, and then they say I trust you now. I want to hear what you have to say. I want I like. I want you at the table I. Want to hear Your Voice because. I? I. Trust You I. Know You I believe that you're smart and you know what you're talking about. You know you said you said boldly there in order to build these relationships it takes. Two steps it takes. A degree of self, confidence. you know you can't. You can't go into it fearful, and and and sort of to Modine yourself or demeaning yourself, because you're not gonNA promote strength, it takes a bit of self confidence, but it also takes a bit of boldness and I and it would seem to me now. Please tell me if if if you disagree I'm open to disagreements, but it it takes it takes the initiative not on the part. Of the male executive, but the female executive to initiate, say I'd like to have some coffee and get to know each other and find out more about what you think and what I think because the male is not going to do that because he's already accepted, he's already in the good old boys club, and so if you're trying to get into the good good old boys club, rather than force yourself in with guns and knives is to sneak your way in through a relationship which by the way. Women seem to be very adept at doing. They have the boldness. To take that risk because it's a risk of rejection of somebody saying Oh, I don't have time. And if they say they don't have time there, excuse me, but there are a dick. You know No I definitely agree thanks that there is a level of boldness that you have to have where you say. You know and. And really this is in every area of life, not even just business, but in any area of life when you're trying to get what you want, you need to have a level of boldness. You know Sitting, you know. I I always laugh so i. Am an extrovert off the charts like every time I. Canal L. Ing may say actually we can't. Even we can't even chart. You but most of my close friends are very introverted and so I get it I. Understand it and we have these kinds of conversations quite a bit. Best friend is. I understand introverted. there is that level of boldness that you need to have when you want to go after something you know, and so I think introverts and extroverts. Can All do it I. Don't think that it's Saved for save for one side It may look a little bit different, but it's that willingness to step outside of your comfort zone to do the thing that you know is going to take you to the next level that you want to get to. That really is the thing of stepping outside your comfort zone, isn't it? I mean it's just an an an and and that comfort zone means you're stepping out of a comfort zone and into a potential risk zone to know that you're doing this. You're going into warfare and you're putting your bulletproof vest on and and. That's what it's going to be about. Absolutely, I have one I have one thing I'd like to wrap up with and and but my wrap ups are always long. Questions as you mentioned early to me on the phone. And I so agree with this Ashley that these limiting believes. Are Much easier to break once. You know they exist because for a long time. We don't even know that these limiting beliefs. You think that's who you are, so you don't even know. It's a belief system. You have elected or allowed to control you, you know, and so you do have a choice over it as you know. My Guy that I referred to all the time Viktor Frankl just said you know who came out of the concentration camp, and and he said we don't have control over matters of my life and experience of my life, but I have control over the way I'm going to respond to them. That is what I do. Have Control to and so I find. that. There's this universal truth. In that, you can't find solution until you truly understand not the problem, but the causes of the problem. You know, begins with the problem, but what? What caused that problem and that's seen through things to an adult is or doing or like I. Love your wonderful exercises because what your exercises are going from Simpson to 'cause. You know what is what is the? What is the root cause? would. Would you agree with that? Absolutely I think You're right I. Think you know we kind of always say it's like. If there is a tree that's growing We actually perfect example I have a new I'm I'm trying to learn how to take care of house plants during Quarantine and I've never been vetted, but I'm trying really hard. And I have a new plant and some of the leave that turned yellow and I. Did some research and there's a few different reasons why that can happen. One is just because they're old leaves. And that's you know natural, but another is the route you have to check the roots, and so if I you know just kept taking off those yellow leaves and never dug into what the real problem could. Could be those yellow leaves would still keep coming up. They might disappear for a little while, but if the if the real problem is the fact that the root system is broken, and the root system is infected, those leaves are going to still keep coming and so you. You think that you fixed it. You think that you've taken care of the issue, but really that was just the surface so getting down to that route issue. is really the only way that you're fully going to heal your fully going to get to a place where you can move onto that next step and and move forward and your journey. You know that's you picked an interesting subject and so I have A. A not a different opinion, but at but complementing. Observation Because I. You know I once. Before I got this small property. I used to have like an Acre and a third, so I had a big garden, and so I I love gardening indoor plants. You know what I discovered. The secret to indoor plants was everybody thinks it's water and I and I tell people. Your plants are not fish. This is not this is not about water. It's all about light. You give them light. You give them the right light, and they're going to flourish now if you don't water them, they're going to die, and if you don't have good wrench, systems are GonNa die, but the key the key indicator is. Do they have the light required for that plant? Right and and that's a complete aside, but that that that struck me But I I really do believe in going to to the root cause. That's where the adult is, and your process gets them to there and I am so. I am so I. so admire what you're doing, and it sounds like you're doing it effectively, and you're helping so many lives. You must have a heart of a servant Ashley that you because we both know does unless you're working when I worked with CEO's. Really high profit margin. This is this is about a passion, not about money. Yeah absolutely I, definitely You know my my heart, and all of this and originally you know when I first started I was like my favorite thing is just. Championing people. To, create their dreams thing like if it's my favorite thing when you know the people that I'm helping or encouraging or whatever like have that? Moment or you know hit that goal that they've always wanted to hit like I. Heal victory with them I feel it I'm excited you know and so That's really you know the heart behind this whole like my whole business. Is I just I? Want to see people succeed. You know and so the best way that I know how to do that to help them. You know break through these things, and then you know, get there. Get. Their business launched and get them ready to go, you know. my goodness. No? Wonder we get along because that. That certainly is my heart. You know you you've probably seen it on my site. You know that that's what I'm all about is is about meaning in life, and and having that opportunity for the next chapter, and and we are talking about your next chapter, and evaluating the truth about yourself and when you do that, you're next. Chapter is going to be plentiful, and and and and abounding in goodness, and and then when you are and I. I gather from what you're teaching. You're line with your natural talents, your natural gifts, your passions, and so then it becomes not a job. It becomes fun. Now becomes a pain in the butt at times. There's no doubt about that. I mean jobs are fun, but the but the passion really pays off in the end. Exactly yeah if you. You know you WANNA. Make sure you're always always loving it, you you know have a could have a good why. You have a good why twenty? I just talked to somebody last week the week before about about knowing your Y, you know what is the is, isn't that the the of that book knowing your why or Understanding your why I can't even think of the finding your wife, find your why. Don't you understand your why then you can understand how and what? abloh, well Ashley Stanley. This has been so fun, we, we truly I say I. Say this like every podcast, but this one I really believe it that we truly have at least thirty minutes more of conversation, and that we will have to. What's at? All Day I know well because we're both you know were cut from the same swath I think you know although you're the you're the extrovert nine the introvert, but we have the same. We have the same goals in. Someone thank you. Thank you so much for spending time with me. Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. I feel exactly likewise You were so bright so fun and so passionate, or what you what you do I. I appreciate that and. I also want to thank our listeners for tuning into the next chapter with Charlie. And please be sure to check us out at our website. The next chapter dot life and tell your friends where we exist because our podcasts are. We're just getting more and more exciting guests and. I I actually think. I'm writing better blogs than I ever wrote because I'm probably reading too two days or two books a week, so it's increasing my my writing ability, so you know we're just continually improving the site. And so until next, this is Charlie hedges signing off by for now.
#183 Jamie Lerner Self-Care: If You Dont, Who Will?
"Welcome everybody's time once again for the next chapter with charlie hedges as he explores turning the page on his life. And your hey charlie. Hey paul today. We have an important discussion with therapist. Jaime lerner on the value of taking care of yourself. Our thesis is this. If you don't exercise intentional care for yourself you will be absolutely no good to anyone else on this show jamie and i are interested in the details of self care both and tangibly. What exactly can you do on a regular basis to build your own emotional bank account so that you have plenty leftover to give to others with that on with the show Jaime lerner how fun to have you once again on the next chapter with charlie. Welcome to be here. Thank you for inviting me again again. You know jamie the last time we did a podcast together. It was show number sixty and today we are recording. Show number one. Eighty three now was just over three years ago in january two thousand eighteen. How my goodness it's great to be back. Well it's great to have you back. I had such a fun time last time. And so i'm i'm looking forward to it. I've got. I have to tell you. And i and i want everybody to know that three years ago jamie. You gave me some personal advice. I don't know if he gave it to me personally. Or if it was done on the on over on the air but you told me we were talking about my difficult childhood and you told me to quit looking through the eyes of a child and look at my childhood through the eyes of an adult and you know that sticks with me today. And anytime i i think about that i think through the eyes of an adult and i think about that situation entirely differently because of you for folklore. Nice sometimes to have a different perspective. Oh well yeah and it's nice. Sometimes they have somebody that can offer you that perspective so before we immerse ourselves in our topic. Today as i was reading a bit. I would love to hear you speak on a couple of things that you that you wrote on your website and i'd like to know what you mean by two things one. You are a pleasure junkie. I love that. And secondly you're and what you're calling your third life. You're too young for a third life. So i'm very curious would those are all about. I spent a lot of time doing things that give me pleasure. Bad is in many ways. I think that that's really looked down upon in society that if we are to indulge ourselves and do things that please However i gravitate towards things that really connect me and bring me a lot of joy and my life is about that connection with my fault also pleasure and then of course to all and it's interesting because i think that wearing. We nurture and nourish herself in the connection that were having and then recreating with ourselves that we become so filled up that we just fell over into an onto everyone around us in a really lovely way bowl. I like to think of myself as the living breathing. Example off all that is possible when we are really Other no relaxing into healthcare finding pleasure and Sharing ourselves in a way. That's bob utah. I so agree with you. And i'm i'm sort of into pleasure. I read so much of the stoic. Mark serreze in seneca the younger but i i noticed seneca coding epa occurs. And so i read epa kuras. And you know. Unfortunately his epa corey and philosophy has been bastardized into some kind of drinking. And what do you call those things so sexual thing or jeez yes. What do you call those things shows shows. You know where i live. But that is not that has a representative occurs at all epa curse was in sort of sat cloth but he was all about life is to be enjoyed. Life is is a pleasurable experience. I really resonate with that. I think you're right that when you live a pleasurable life you'll live an attractive life. I like that the way you put that so talk about attractive lives what the heck is a third life while. I'm probably on my life by now. But i had my Children very young. I had my profession very young. I have grandchildren no way. Oh yes i have. Four grandchildren four beautiful grandchildren. And the most wonderful thing that i was there and assisted in each and every one of the birth which was amazing. Like a separate flights in itself. But i think that we are in reinventing ourselves over and over and over again and especially when i think that we have the ability to just continue to evolve and fifth reinvent herself though i think i will probably have nine live by the time on dong which are wonderful certainly identify but you know what really rouses my curiosity and that is because i female leadership female wisdom is very important to me that the divine feminine is a very important aspect and so i'm just curious. Why do you think that women would have maybe more opportunity or more likelihood to reinvent themselves. 'cause i think we hassle back why i think that women The tape on so many different roles and we wear so many different hats that becomes a part of who we are. I think fat especially now. Women have much greater opportunity to do just that the continue to reinvent themselves but a lot of it is because they need to. I'm going off of chart here. What is reinventing yourself. Look like because. I wrote a book twenty five years ago. That was ahead of its time. It was called Getting the right things right personal strategies for reinventing the life you want and that was long before anything was written on reinventing so i have my ideas about reinvention. But i'm i'm curious. What are yours all what's happening now. You know women or and probably men to are out of the workplace and in their homes and there are teachers needing to become teachers and literally for children in learning every day with remote learning. I mean we. Women are masters at adapting to whatever is needed. We just are and were very well equipped to do it. And it's also interesting about reinvention. Is that we lose a lot of something. That is very important along the way which is south care so women are masterful in reinventing themselves and then they also are masterful in forgetting themselves. How did how did how did he know. We're going to make a transition to self care. I mean seriously on my sheet in front of the next. The next bullet point was self care and you made a wonderful trenches transition to it. So that is what. I'd like to talk about now. And and focus probably the majority of our time is self care and personal responsibility and and especially in this current cova time of chaos and confusion and and one of the things that you told me about when we chatted before the podcast was that you described your passion. Your current passion for helping people find themselves in the moment. Can you tell me what that what that means to you. Find yourself in the moment every moment that we can be present and it is just a moment by moment and establish or reestablish connection with ourselves that that is the ultimate in self care and and i think a lot of that comes from being able to manage our thoughts and then are feeling but first and foremost our thaw and i think it's important cut. We rarely slow everything down and allow ourselves to be in that moment contain. That's why one of the most important things of how we can care for ourselves and then others it's always about foul firth and then others. It's kind of a win win for everybody. Jesus talks about that. When he says you know i it's always quoted love god and love your neighbor but what's always left out is love. Love your neighbor as yourself and to me that assumes self love precedes other love the cacao kangaroo barber care for another if they're not taking care of yourself self love is sort of. it's almost frowned upon that. You are selfish. You are ego centric if you do that and and if you take care of yourself too much and yet and yet if you don't take care of yourself you're you're no good to anyone else you know want when you could on the airplane they tell you to put your mask on on first before assisting other people and there's a reason for that. That is a universal truth. We cannot care for anyone until we care for ourselves without feeling resentment and if we feel is not much then we are not caring for ourselves or another. So you know. I think people don't really understand what it means to wrap third loving arms around themselves and nourish and nurture themselves into connection. That is the most unselfish thing that you can do. And in some ways it sure responsibility if you're then going to assume the care of others whether be children or a teacher or if you're in any role where you're in a leadership role it's just not possible to do it without having spent some time with yourself and nourishing yourself and if they're self some something to give agree with you on that and i was thinking about taking care of ourselves. There's there's just a number of of ways to do that in you know we're going to get into tactics toward the end of the Of the of the of the show. But right. Now i i'd like to disorder. Get a big picture of what do you mean by taking care of yourself. I know account. I have an idea of what i need by but but i'm curious what your interpretation is kind of goes hand in hand with taking personal responsibility to understand that really. It is known responsibility to care for your responsibility to begin to have an understanding of what year in the evening for yourself and then to figure out a way a gentle loving way to kind of implement some of that self care and most people do the opposite. They expect other people to care for them. They don't even know their own news. They expect others around them to know what they need and they expect that they should be given what they need. There's this really Twisted sense of entitlement. just because the very I think the other interesting thing about women reinventing themselves then they get to hide behind all of the roles that they've taken on as they never care for themselves the end up feeling resentful. They ended up feeling overwhelmed. The end up feeling all the things that they should be feeling and yet known even knows what they need. Not even know. They haven't even taken the time to figure out like okay but only know what i need for my. What do i need to do first thing in the morning but the guy can so myself up before we take care of all these other people so to step into that role of personal responsibility for sending the morning and ask yourself now. What are what. I need so myself. That is such a loving and lovely question to ask one and then to answer it with you. Maybe coffee before. I serve an to eat something before i i just some basic things. That really remind us that we're important. How counter cultural that is because we you know we're we're thinking we always have to be givers don't we we. We can't be. we can't be takers. we can't be an it's not even really taking it's it's more of. You're giving love from an empty cup and you've got to fill that love your love cup for yourself because unless you do you end up resenting the very people that you are serving and it doesn't feel good on your and it doesn't feel good on there and either never feels good to be given some things from someone who is representing you in the process so yet to unconditionally give to hand. That is a lovely feeling for the giver and the receiver and the way we get there is by taking care of ourselves so that we can give which hand alternate goal to feel good about the giving and to feel good about the person who is receiving what your kid i have for the last year been very involved on my own in in the in the sort of tradition node as mystic christianity and the mystics and and and i'm reading people of the thirteenth to fourteenth century teresa viola saint john of the cross and and teresa viola sort of my my guru. Now and she was. She was in the fifteenth century. And they talk about spending this time in divine contempt mystical prayer. But she is very strong that you do that in doing that. You are taking care of yourself your relationship with yourself yourself in the divine how how you relate in the divine but that that then becomes the resource for helping others that so you don't you don't just folk off. Yeah you don't just focus on yourself and forget everybody else. You have to focus on yourself but then the result is it results in a self care you. You can't help but want to share that with other people tackle once again. It's a win win for every beautiful idea. Now you want. You talked about personal responsibility in that. And i've even thought about making when i make a title for this show and we'll see what happens after the show. They make the title. But i i'm working on a premise of the me. Look at my own title here. Self care your responsibility to be responsible for yourself. Well is it so you would. You says it's good. I'm glad you agree because you're not title if you said no i don't believe any of that however it's a turn off for people a lot of people do not want to be responsible from south. They feel resentful that they should have to be responsible for themselves. They feel entitled that others should be responsible for their happy. And i think that it just needs to be thought about in a different way because who would know better for you than you know and yet we expect others to know what we need what. We consider south for first and foremost look. We need the great question. People don't ask themselves that question very often. But do you want. Don't ask themselves that either but people will tell you all day long what they want and what they get is more of what they don't want so and it's always someone else's all so you know if that doesn't work very well that way no it doesn't and and how in the world like you said if we haven't even really investigated pin through the thought process of understanding what we want and what we like in life. How in the world is someone else supposed to know that you know great costal one and yet we expect them to set us fai our needs and we've not identified their their needs. I mean our our needs and how they need to respond. You know My listeners heard have heard this before. But my wife. And i for probably. We've been married thirty six years and for at least twenty five of those. If not more. We take every year between christmas and new years now. This happens throughout the year but we take an intentional time of three days away so we can have two nights in one place. You know two full days in place and we ask each other So how was i. What kind of husband was last year. What kind of wife was i. And and what do you want from me. How can i serve you in helping. You find. You know helping you fulfill your needs and so we're forcing ourselves to identify our knees and until the other person. This is what i would like fantastic. I mean that's that's a conscious of our relationship a nice guy. Yeah yeah you know a lot of good writing on that jamie is. Are you familiar with the land baton. Elaine de button depends on how you want to pronounce it. The scarlet life. You know he's rich and really good stuff on that he's ridden maybe the best stuff of love between a man and a woman as anyone is written for you know. He's just barely turned forty now but he just has has exceptional writing on that. You know what i wanna do. I i want to go a bit deeper but before we do. I'd like to take a quick break. And then we will come back. And we're going to pursue a little bit more about this personal responsibility and how the victim mentality may come into play in that. Hi there this is charlie hedges. And you're listening to the next with charlie and my very special guests. Today's jaime lerner A woman who is a therapist adventurer pleasure seeker and a cute devil tae of self care. And that's exactly what we're talking about. And and i think she has so much teaches that i've learned so much from jamie and jimmy. We've talked about a bit about personal responsibility. And that letting other people know not expecting other people to somehow somehow be able to read our minds in our souls and understand what we need. We need to articulate that. What other kinds of personal responsibility you know. We're talking about our own personal responsibility and our self care. How can i take responsibility for myself. Do you have any examples of that for me now. I think that away are rewarded in society. Forbidden since Mainstream media that. They reminded us every moment. That's come we are the victim of everything. We have no control so for me. I always suggest to people to turn off the television and to Find a new source. That is a little more emotionally intelligent. That will allow us to feel good when you're done breathing. You're listening to or watching in fetter feeling paralleling cars. We have to take personal responsibility for what we are chasing to consume and hall. We will fail one way or done firmly cloud video. You know that's brilliant. You know is that we have to take responsibility for what we consume in our media. And and i find pretty much nothing but danger when not not just. Tv in general but for me. It's tv news and tv news. You know their their purpose is to stir up controversy in stirrup. Stir up resentment and anger and that victim mentality is just. It is so common on on and it's and it's in it's not one political side or the other it's all it is just so unhealthy because it doesn't teach self responsibility. It doesn't teach being rewarded for not for being victim but be rewarded for being a personal herself hero. And do you agree with that. I do agree with that. But also what's more important how you feel after you continue that because if you are not killing. Us clue for gale. It's not working on. Most people really feel terrible. They tell so soft and shutdown and the opposite of empowers the peel very different politics so there are many other choices but one could make in terms of how they were gonna get there do of the game and if our personal responsibility to be more discern institute something that allows us to that what we need an move along and feel good. Yeah i i like that you know is is i. Read your In on your website which we will post in our show notes that that tells people instructs people how to get a hold of you and how to participate you. have you have. Coaching sessions That are you know i. It took a look at them. And they're they're they're really good and very very very very helpful. And it's what you call the integrative approach to wellbeing and You wrote something jamie that that that really struck me and that was sometimes we simply need permission to redirect ourselves inward back to that most important relationship the one that we have with ourselves and and i like the word permission that we need to give ourselves permission because we don't were certainly not getting permission from our culture so who determines where we're headed in life if not ourselves if we're looking for other people to determine our direction where we're going to end up in in not the right place for us. We have to look within ourselves while. I think we have all the answers and i think that will we are tuned into ourselves that we are guided to exactly what we are. Maybe and wanting for some but there's nothing out there outside of it comes from the inside out so we will always. We would tune in that we will navigate quite well for and so trust on might be a little scary at first but you always know the answer herself to matter how me you don't know how or why but used to so. I like to tell people that. Consider themselves for all in greatest reform. Brilliant and sometimes i have found with me that my choices are not necessarily really strongly sent conscious choices but they are hints of intuition that this is the right. Move or charlie. There's something amiss here you know. you can't identify it. All the facts looked straight and all the facts. Look good to make this decision. But i've got this little haunting feeling that something is amiss and i think we really need to pay attention to those haunting little feelings because those are i believe. That's our souls way of speaking to us. Apple require intuitive. Knowing for sure now how does that work with something. You said earlier that i was that that i i i was also struck by and that was that we begin our changed through thought not through feelings because feelings can be can be they can be those victim feelings can be those desperate feelings in an insecure feelings and lack of confidence feelings. But but i agree with you that that they began with thought. So how how do you see. Thought intersecting with intuition. Ask people if they start tuning into the internal dialog that they're having with themselves probably all day long. What are the conversations that you're having and essential because usually they're not very nice people say some really not nice things about themselves to themselves and about other all day long so would we began to become more conscious. Howard speaking our and howard feeling what. We're watching on television and power feeling and we start to make connections between the dialogue and our own heads. Is i lock on television then. I think that we can pick a moment and ask ourselves is like this work and usually it's not working. It isn't feeling good and at that point. Then you have a choice then catches start fifteen. They'll the possibly called selectively fifty. We catch the information and began to focus on the parts to atra does and none of it pills cuts than you really need to find a completely different source or change the tone of the conversation that you're having yourself about yourself really a great way to start being very discerning about where you're putting now that requires a bit of self confidence. Doesn't it or do you. How did the confidence to trust yourself. That you've spent so long questioning yourself and spent so long telling yourself of stories about yourself because you know remember those more than the positive stories. How do we. How do we develop that that confidence and trust in ourselves that that we really are adequate more than adequate where we're probably the best source. Not probably we are the best source of information for ourselves. How do we develop that kind of confidence fall once again. You know i think or over. That came from probably was from long ago. So it's like what you had mentioned earlier if you could begin to look at those experiences through the eyes of your now where you are right here now as an adult. He thinks that you see them very differently. And then were available to us a little bit of emotional intelligence and ally yourself to shift from prof arc that it's not true if it's not true though we can drag vibration louis and otherwise a lot of from whenever and just play it over and over and over again kind of like a mantra without steph trusted we need to factor just like we need to fact check the unique ask ourselves like if it's even really true and ninety nine percent of it isn't it's not true whatever that was from whoever told you those things if effects apply to them. It's not relevant. So what does supply what is well. How are you feeling about you. Not hard you feeling because someone told you what you first effective that is adult once again. Who have to take personal responsibility in began to ask ourselves so the questions so that we can get the facts straight and i feel. That's a great idea is that we're in the age of fat checking and it's always about the other and it's about you know news but we need to fact check about ourselves and say is what we believe about ourselves. Is that based on current reality or is that based on some experience that i had in the past and very likely in early childhood but it goes on certainly through adalah. We'll go through our whole life. But we allow negative experiences to dominate our thought patterns about ourselves rather than the positive experiences and in it takes a real choice. I had to wrestle with that. It takes a real choice to remember the positive. Because i had a tendency to look back even though i had you know what would be considered Successful and and a rather healthy adult life. But i would look back at it and i would only see the negatives you know emotionally that would just all would come to my mind and i and i had to make you know. I'm fond of the of the term conscious choice. I make a conscious choice not to do that. To take a look and remind myself of the good things that happen in life and you know what doggonit jamie. The good things that i did i i did some good things i i actually an and that's you know. I know that is going to sound very egocentric. But i have to admit those if i don't admit those where am i doesn't sound aether center at all. That sounds like you having a real honest conversation. Theirself about who you are and wearing finality. That's like that's impact. Do you think this is something that is easier with someone like myself who is entering that later phase of life. You know post i. Am you know. Just post seventy. And i and i'm finding wisdom really beginning to come and and i'm seeing life very differently than i than i did. In my first half. Richard rohr breaks it into two halves. You know the first half the second half in the first half is very appropriately driven by ego building that we need to build ego and second half is assuming that we have our eagle built and we can dismiss it and we can lose it and we can be centered on love and centered on on giving out love. Do you think this this approach is easier as you get older than it is. When you're younger propen how pires one years of not been happy. And when you give people a choice i mean. Let them know that he happy in connecticut yourself and feeling good about yourself is an option. I think that opens the door for people because a lot of people don't even know that that's impossible so you know the other thing. Is that if you are unhappy and you want to stay there. Like that's fine but take responsibility for man terrible. I have no interest in things happen. I have no interest in valuating hall. I feel and what happened. And i applaud that. I say that's fantastic. You've made a really good choice for your spouse. They're not a victim to any. And that is powerful that you cannot go through the whole life waiting. Everybody for everything. No matter how awful it was early on and chances are a lot of strength that you have as a person say where as a result of some of those things that happened when you were drunk or an earlier part of your life and you should embrace fat and own and feel really good about it and possibly even thank those people for giving you the opportunity to be who are today because bar. I you know. I've learned through mentors and and and personal coaches that there have been voices that have inside of me that wants to protect me and that that i need to be cautious about stepping out because i get hurt and they are they. They're just simply voices from long ago. That says don't do this because you can get hurt. And what i have learned to do is not necessarily reject those offhand but to understand that those are protective voices. And i need to thank those voices. Thank you for trying to protect me. I understand what you tried to do. But you are no longer necessary. I very powerful a place for that and this is no longer at the time with a play. I mean that's fantastic. Thank you thank you. You know what i'd like to do is as we're beginning to. Oh i i. I was going to say. We're big beginning to wrap up a little bit. But i do. Have i wanna keep quoting you. Because you are so quotable. As i as i read and i liked your phrase i think you know it just reinforces to ever. We've been talking about so far. And that you said that we all need to indulge in self care. there's something about that verb indulge. I like that. I like self indulgent. And you know it's again not not not socially popular but that we need to indulge in the self care so we can live. I mean as you said so many. Choose to live unhappy. Lives thinking their victim or thinking that they're powerless. And therefore you know as a as a member of alcoholics anonymous and addictions what we did. Is we just numbed it. You know we rather than rather than deal with anything just numb our way out of it and that's no solution because that doesn't end up healthy and and parts at work. I mean if it worked. I was take great. Do it it. Doesn't it doesn't but feeling really good and then having the drink if they're not an alcoholic to accentuate. You're already good feeling great or detail really good and then to sit down and eat like a you know a pint of ice cream. 'cause feeling good in just wanna feel better fat worth but to eat ice cream to feel better. It doesn't work or to have a drink. You know them not to come guilty classroom. Yes yes and i am I am a non addicted ice cream eater. And when maybe a couple of times a month i will get a pint of ben and jerry's and there is no pretending that i'm gonna need half of it. I've tried to just eat that whole thing. And you know i i only twice a day. I do intermittent fasting. My weight is great. You know i. I'm healthy. So i can afford the pound you know it and and knowing that i'm not gonna take it. I'm not gonna have any for for a week. And you know the the pound will go and a couple of days and men are so fortunate. We can lose weight so easily compared to women men talk about women and men. I just what my wife has to go through. I just i think god daily. I'm not a woman. Says she just all this stuff that she has to do. And and you know i. I don't have to go through any of that. You know i'd like to spend time. Are our last few minutes on a couple of things here. And i think we've probably covered it for. I want to rehearse what you. And i talked about some tips for indulgent self care. One of them was to reduce or or completely lose our our intake of television especially especially news. And then i even notice jamie some things that were you know i like crime crime dramas sometimes but sometimes they're just too much. They're just too dark. And and and i just don't feel good afterwards. Just say you know why it just shows the evil side of people in the and it is. It is not good for me. And i've told my wife you know. I think we need to quit watching this show. this is. i can't handle it. And and i think when you recognize that the best thing to do is even if you're in the middle of june say enough i'm gonna go watch it in the jungle to honor honor. How you're feeling when you're doing whatever it is that you're doing that isn't feeling good. Honor and take a conscious choice to do something different. Yes honored and and and and i would add and to recognize an into. Give yourself permission they. You can stop a television series halfway through. Say this was not good for me. Even though i'm curious how it ends. The process of getting there is not good for me and not even. There's a bucket reading a lot of people get halfway through box. They're not enjoying it one bit but they feel compelled to finish it. It's like why. Why would you waste all that time reading something. That isn't interesting to you and doesn't feel get it you guys. You're preaching to the choir jamie. I i believe if i'm not into a book by twenty five pages it's gone and then after one hundred one hundred fifty pages. If i think. I've caught the gist of the book. I'm done because so many books are repeating themselves in the second half already. What they they said in the first half because publishers have a formula you know they want so many pages they want one hundred eighty or two hundred forty pages and even though you were done with the book at one hundred twenty you just have to add fluff and i know enough about publishers to know that i don't have to read the fluff. I can read. If if i get what i want in the first half. I just put the book down and and go with another awful grades. Your not a quitter. No no you're is as a matter of fact your the opposite. I think i think. I think you're you're an adventurer. You say have already reached the mountain of this book. This book is just just you know the the old paredo eighty twenty rule. I've got eighty percent out of it. I don't need to re eighty percent on the first half. I don't read the second half for the twenty percent unless i choose to read the last chapter. Sometimes i'll do. I'll just go and read the last chapter. I wanna talk about you. Mentioned emotional. self awareness e. q. I'm a big believer and knowing myself emotionally. What drives me what haunts me. Where i'm strong. And and where i may have deficiencies are are you. Are you a fan of of emotional intelligence. I really am. And i think that talking it's really helpful if you earn any kind of Parenting loan leadership rural relationship with somebody We think it's a. It's a really good gayle yet again. And it helped us along to the emotionally intelligent and helps us navigate of angle for curation. Do you like the instruments the the instruments or any of those things you need that you are a fan of over others. Well i liked the concept that are simple to break down to understand what emotional intelligence is and higher. They can tap into any given moment because we all have the ability to be emotionally intelligent taking a test. Yeah yeah that is good and you know you continue. I'm gathering from our conversation. You continue to emphasize that you already have pretty much everything you need to know. You just need to access it and to consciously access it and to listen to yourself and to pay attention to yourself and sometimes that's journaling. Sometimes that's meditation or some solitary practice of of identifying. What is in your court taking that time to to clear your mind best you can and and understand what's driving you and and i think we would all be shocked to know that we already know what we need. If we just after oval. Yeah you believe the hundred percent the asked by do but i think we're so used to everyone else telling us what we need. Which is it's interesting. It's so difficult because on one hand everyone's telling us what we need and on the other hand were asking others could give us and we're never asked me herself like every product is being sold. It's been two cars. Don't telling us what we need. But do we ask for stuff. Like what do we need most important questions like. What do you what you need in this moment. And then the next moment and so if the great question. Mary could probably yourself every single moment of the day and give botham only total lifting for the antle. It will come to but you know what i think we need jamie and i i think so. Many people need is we don't need gurus but we need guides because we're not used to asking ourselves those questions. We're unfamiliar with those questions. We don't even even first of all. We don't even know where to go to answer the questions. And then if we get answers with a difficult time interpreting them and that's why that's why a guide or a coach or you know someone to talk to just appeared that that's working through that with you. I think it's helpful not to take this journey by yourself. Yes but on the other hand when you ask yourself a question and you are quiet enough to listen for the answer. New are guided to exactly where you need to be can give me an example of that you give a give a personal example of how that how you came across that somebody is asking themselves the question and then they all slept are struck with an inspiration to google search something there to look for resource and then they have a list of resources than team canada but intruder play their attractive to one. Then they click on that and that looks interesting but no the read a little bit about it and it doesn't feel as good as they saw they go back and then another one and that one feels a little better for they go a little further and explore that foul. This really resumes picking. And so i think of ourselves the time and the opportunity to trust herself. That lee can intuitively to what we are needing south if we ask the question and then are quiet enough here. That is it helpful. Donald journal. That jamie i think for everybody different. Everyone has a different loss. But i think we are inspired at times students. Who don't even know what inspired us but we're like. Oh my god. What a pain kicking. No i was so yucky that i found. I darn coincidences. And you weren't lucky. But into the phone your guidance and he trusted you run into it so you thought your take personal responsibility for that too or just the opposite. If you're working with someone and it's not feeling like it's not right find someone else to work. Trust yourself but what are. You should be telling you what you need to be working on and what you need to be doing. You know you know what you need to be doing and you know you need to work and take personal responsibility and find someone who will support that people end up in therapy years and years in year they get nowhere. It's just unbelievable. But they don't even know they have an option to get out of therapy. Oh my goodness about that is that is that that guru oriented that we feel in an odd sort of way. It is almost like a victim in that in that we're in. We don't trust our capacity to know about ourselves when we feel like. We need an expert to tell us about ourselves. We need someone to and and and you're consistent in arguing that we don't need experts that we have everything we need already built inside of us we just need to discover processes perhaps and in confidence in in discovery ourselves and i think we are experts for ourselves. I don't think experts. I don't consider myself an expert for anybody. Do you know but you know how rare that is. Jamie did you know that is. That is a wonderful place but i. I don't know how many people really feel expert in themselves that they feel lost themselves. I i don't know what i want. If i only knew what my purpose in life was if i only knew what i was here to do and to and to accomplish and if i only knew what would self-fulfilment would mean to me because we have so many con- conflicting sources out there telling us. This is what you need. This is what you don't need and you know in our american self-help culture is almost. It's almost destructive. Think they're air fell more consciousness and more awareness and more empowerment to Discover fell. That is certainly. You can find many more resources today about that than ever befall and i also say that if you break it down to end this moment. What's my purpose in this moment. Because my need in this moment it just makes it so much easier. And if i just saw inconvenient minimum which is really a lovely place and then on to the next mom and shook theories of known and hope please within all of that a lot of pleasure in good field. That is so good and so to wrap up our time. What i wanna do is talk about the coaches and guides for those of us. That may not be exactly clear on the process. You have you have on your website. You have a process. The people can contact you and forever. So brief encounters think even called them quickies. That's called the quickie a lovely texting option. Yes it is and The other thing about working with me when people contract they tell me how much time they want by a block of time and tell me how much money they want. I don't tell down with a knee. They tell me what need and so at the perez skinny. I precision the person as their own experts. Which is really different so have to wanna take a little personal responsibility to do Do you offer do offer any kind of any kind of survey or assessment centers so they can help identify what they need. Because that's a very difficult question. Sometimes now they don't really need to know what they need to know how much time they want for their russians so literally. You buy a path of time. They reach out to me for my first session. I by twenty one. May i reach the person we have twenty minutes for the next session. They get to ask them for playing for the next session. Homage time might need imaging. I'm not going to tell me what you. But i'm so happy to accommodate whatever this evening and therein lies take personal responsibility and the beginning the process of tractable soft which is so night. It's great now. no. I'm going to have your your website. Where they were interested. People can get in touch with you through your website. And and i will have the url but just for on the air. What is the A dress jamie that they can get you at. Www dot j. m. i. e. cash elliara ner.com so jaime lerner dot com and they will be it will be folks will be on the show notes and so you can just there'll be a link and you can just tap into get a hold of jamie and i really encourage you to do. So she's She's a masterful coach and and she will uses what she calls. Integrative approach of life and self learning jaime lerner. what a treasure. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. Uncle how much for inviting my pleasure. And i want everyone to know as i said that your website address will be posted on the show notes. One thank all our listeners for tuning into the next chapter with charlie end until next. This is charlie hedges signing off by now.
Re-framing the most difficult situations with Jamie Lerner
"Welcome to the dave thomas. Show the podcast. Fives restores and awakens. Your innermost capability. You have the training and the talent to succeed but do you have the guts to fail. I love what i do. We love what you do. You want to be the best at it. Today is about the power you you will change to find your path to success through the journey of those who have succeeded. And now your host. Dave pomme welcome back to the day palm show. And today i have a co author of the book epa loving essence of you jaime lerner. Welcome to the day. Palm showed thank you so much firm writing me find to be here. Now's the pleasure having here as well. jamie jamie tatsuta someone you you've been around for a while tennis what that's about and how it Basically walks around the work. You did and came on the book. The essence of came to be is the result of The relationship that i had with find mom or lack there of electoral. es because I was formed the knowing. And i believe that we all are and i was very connected to myself however i never quite felt connected to the person that brought me into this world so it really took me more than half my life to figure out why that once and my mother was a force of megyn. She was someone who believed the race. Forty eight hours and every day. She had five children and and chose to spend most of her lines Out in the world hoping other keep on causes and She is really ami's emitter. How wonderful i felt about myself and you how wonderful it was. I couldn't quite get their connection with her. That i always felt that i wanted and and that i felt was you know. Part of the mother daughter relationship until she Became very ill and was intimated. And was in icu. And i sat with for about five days and volkov love for through. Burn to me. And i thought oh my goodness this is the beginning of our mother daughter relationship and then she transition so i thought about that and realize that oh my goodness this was really now. My mother's inability to have connection herself and she used her life and situation that was wonderful for the world. However it was quite the avoidance of the relationship that she happened so i sat down moma again with a friend of mine who knew my mom really well and we vote this and really what the book is about his creating and recreating a connected loving relationship with your song. Seinfield relationship and yourself is the foundation for every other relationship. You have or go onto have with. So that's what the book is about any town. Iras changes psychotherapist. However after being unconscious. For long time i moved away from that because A gift when we feel like it was talking people in the word that we were talking about. What happened back then so Now just really helped. He ball help them sounds and reconnect with themselves and hopefully establish a more loving insurance relationship about themselves with themselves. Yeah well The bushmen ran ten years has had does that transform into the work you do too. I mean you. Say that you've you psychotherapy i which could really be to have that kind of background. Really indians kids year. Good to have that. But i try to give off traveled and now do something. How the integrative approach to wellbeing it really is just helping people get from right. They are in this moment to where they want to be roy. So it's it was a shift from me but it's a shift. That fire was meaning to do the entire time i was hoping people on a psychotherapy practice. It was kind of a natural way to go. Yeah we're looking at your website. I mean you do some sessions which explores the natural state of welby in what you do in these sessions. I mean obviously obviously bringing anyone's identity or anything. How does it work. It's interesting because in order for people to work with me. They really need to step into a role of taking personal responsibility and they may go through the backside and they get a sense of if work could fit and then they have to purchase a package in time and then they have to reattach me decide how much time that there are meeting for themselves. So message is very clear in the beginning. Is you know when specifying what you need for you. I don't know so it people to step into a place of kind of redeeming their personal power and instead of me being the expert i am rationing that they are the expert for the jobs about themselves so that that's helpful for people because they're not really used to hearing that especially when they're starting to work with professional whom physicians themselves as an ex and. I think that's happened way too much. And this year some and then we talk about things like what he wanted for yourself on my business. That's like the biggest question of all because all day long people you what they don't and that's what they're getting what they don't want but a question of when watching making victims are really asking themselves that question in taking the time to really explore in a serious unloving way. They are wonderful themselves. So that's kind of weird all begins and so when people were when when he awesome what they won. I mean how do you get them from where they are now because people unhappy maybe where they are now to to what they actually one in manhattan has actually worked so bridge. That that kind of when i think when you go cajole for give then permission opportunity to begin to ask themselves those questions. Think that that's almost like people can take a big breath People need permission. And i don't know depending on where they been recovering. Sometimes it's religious. Sometimes they up a very stern tall order is being can turn relationship I don't think that they have permission to really about my goodness life. What is it that i wanted for myself. So that's kind of like the beginning and Just the permission and the allowing he to sit back and take some time exploring what people really get excited about is when they understand what they think about all day long is not wanting. And that's what the half so what we think about is what we create first house power. Tom yeah yeah. Yeah all the saw painting images of what you actually want a knife and she corrects you direction. Doesn't it yomas not the director of your life in that sense in your movie lady. That's what i be. So and and i think it becomes really clear really fast for people when they think more about what they are wanting for themselves and then slowly but surely they stuck into those aims startling and So it's become some very powerful and to take personal responsibility. I think is is what wonderful way to. Yeah wow well. I mean you. You want sir Topic such as love and relationships guy by your your website. Family relations family relationships sex spirit. Shantou t i mean. Are those the main sort of nishi areas that you cover every reason for that that kana varia that he couple that you know i am he. All those relationships are reflection of how they are feeling about themselves celebrity relationship in workplace or mutual relationship with your children. And so i think it's always helpful to look at your relationships and you can understand harbor feeling about them and saw in that and and i think that that's kind of slide the snapshot of where you're at week yourself so once you change that relationship it's interesting because all your other relationships just became to change all by themselves because you have changed your role so you're still the same person but you have changed how you feel about yourself. Some at the moment figure aren't happy instead of lashing out at your arden became to have no clear understanding like oh my goodness this is about me and homered choosing to either differently about undertake responsibility for or And so once again. You know those small foods which had are big things. because it's your on Are in your control when we can stop feeling legwork and charm relationships situations but also feels better. Yeah well i mean what. We're really talking about there is Self esteem issues really and so now that you know to to really have that relationship with oneself but self esteem can be quite quite complex. It depends doesn't it really but obviously with the soccer. If work you've done you can really get into that the area. If people want to send a lot of time looking back we asked him to julian from the perspective of their right here and now adult son because when we to it looks and feels really different and We we feel more powerful in in control because were not snow anymore. I'm so perspective is really help fall as is some emotional intelligence so you know. Can we feel the feeling. Can we see the feeling can just not become the field and people can do. It all feels so much. So yeah the ping is obviously with some people you know self esteem issues could be an environment. They're in demand gala environment. I mean how. How would you solve lead them out of that when they always in that environment. Well you know. I asked people to quiet on my show. Just get a sense of linked the conversation for having themselves all day long and when they really can begin to iceland that you could allow because it's so absurd mean you would not talk to another person. The way was before speaking to themselves and to have some humor about it. I think is so important to. Is it really just a matter where those messages came from. You can get to do some kind of allie rally check about is that even true and ninety percent of what we are saying and thinking about ourselves in terms of dot soft occasion of britain. Yourselves down or you know. I think that is just not is not based the rally of are here now and so. That's where it helpful for for some people who are parents. Smu in a hari speaking to your children and capel laker taken back that because they're not really to jen how their actions leaving to their own children however once they can can figure that out realized that it's not the kinder gentler things that they're saying to the children is actually the unkind harsh things that they're saying to themselves and then projecting on cheltenham for some people. It's easier to do it when involve children. you know. you can't do it for yourself but asking me how your relationship with your children or any other religion check and sometimes to look to the others is helpful in helping you help yourself think it comes back to the some. Yeah sunny does yeah But there is a cell phone environment and the kind of sort of tried relate. Both both we've where you are now really really so. There's something complex selective system and actually own. It's really tough to do with news right now on. This is such a challenging time. And i really trying to be mindful of the kind of news time reading ingesting chided selectively sift through and pick out the things that are helpful to me and you kuching that in any environment in any relationship that you're in if you're feeling good about yourself it's interesting because you're really able to be an environment and only kind of sure the things that resonate with you your good feeling place which means you could be in relationship very heavier negative partner and yet you don't probably share those things anymore. So that was the process really encourage people to practice. It is definitely a practice. But it's fantastic when we can do and when you are feeling good about yourself less things bom no then start to feel good about other people and situations your not gonna place of judgment and more. Order solver hums. You're just feeling so paris There are a lot of reasons to slowly in my fleet. Create a better more loving relationship with yourself. I think it helps everybody an awesome. Yeah well i mean. Obviously i know we my situation when i was younger. Particularly free some some forms of bullying and other things that's going on you know Obviously found a way to get for it myself Done some work around what you do. Lock you in terms of reframing and turn it around and just getting your mind to sports and you become positive when you do something you feel. Good about steve physiologically as well with the dolphins to get you in that direction but the couple of yami for maybe you know some people suffering from domestic violence and they can't get alvie for for instance but you say that it's not the situation that causes misalignment. This is how we feel about a situation. He thinks that's true. I really do so. That's where reframing is really helpful thing is when you know that you're in a situation curnow did not feel good and you felt that you really in a disadvantage to be able to now's adults while those things really created so much strength in today i am worried now because of those things and to turn it around to the incongruity. Appreciate where you aren't. They is a result of them. So it's a lovely way to forgive yourself and other people. But i think for most of us you know know you did not have deal childhoods or experiences but how can we happen to those and really understand fully who we are today. Yeah i can. We can do that. do someone know who who they offer a very important question to ask oneself as their. Yes but i think when you do ask yourself these questions and you look at. You can find that there were so many times when knew even then you didn't know how. And why do you knew you intuitively knew that whatever was going on. It just wasn't right even if everyone around you. Judge wants so to begin to understand that trusting your intuition which you'd most people have done and understanding that their intuition is with them at all times. That's real empower. But i mean as a say something through some people trapped you know then they have the intuition. But i don't know how to i mean the other question you ask you. Website is how do we change the storyline to create a feeding feelings. And we forty and you're trapped in that situation you can't do the say say for domestic violence for instance or you know i mean of the many me metoo stories out there workplace violence or something like that Domestic wounds is a really tough. And i think that especially for women to that. We're our they arc this moment and that they are. I know it's hard to say that they're choosing to be like an and then to believe that choice that you're making is the either the only or the best choice because that is still more powerful than feeling like you are so oftentimes people will be in a situation and they don't want to change it. So what i cuss. People do is at least acknowledged that you're choose to be where you are because that feels good feels better than feeling like you are a victim to any and the society applauds victim. I have to say we victim in town. So i'm going to bring this up because I mean particularly in the u k now lockdown because a lot of situations like this has happened. we've lockdown. i mean it's never too one one thing will happen. There's more love being brought in and more of your work that people bring in into the home or vice versa. When people are in a situation where you know people now together in a home house out and things that stuff's happening which exacerbates the problem. So i mean domestic violence wannabe or or you know child abuse or wherever so so. That's why we're looking at the reframing work you do in how do we get to the victim. Mentality is going to be my mic successive. As did you turn around. Sometimes just creating a different understanding about what's going on foreign yourself by yourself yourself and to be able to say this is the Because this is what i mean is a child and this is for. I known to be in business lie. I am where i am. Yeah that's also very you know. Somehow your sent standing in your own farmer power saying that. Yes you know because it's for matter and because i know nothing else this is where is opposed to feeling like this is all being done too so it's it is not going to change situation but can you change how you feel about yourself in this situation. Bats the power that true. Yeah and that gives you power within yourself. Doesn't it really when you can do that with any so yes entirely could actually dictate what's happening around you from from control it within yourself. Some and that's also way of being lovingly curious about the situation in a buyer song. Which is i really encourage people to do to be very gentle and loving and vert sureness about themselves in a nonjudgmental. Fascinating is people and What we indoor and if you look at children they tell them some stories all the time when they're going through something that's really awful. They create a fantasy world for themselves is a coping mechanism. The children are just really teaches us all the time especially our own children and we allow them to really teach us so much about our sauce. Yeah yeah yeah for me. I'm bringing youngsters up at the adult myself. And i'm really china. Groom her to be the best version of yourself. You know homeschooling now. I'm on on her couch. I'm not really a trained teacher. But i do. She's having tutoring as well as the homeschooling but A situation we're in but you know already look at her as developer not to be a good human being out. there is an adult on our. I didn't have that on a tons where i was in that situation bullying situations. You know for whatever reason. This training wasn't around. When i was growing up what you're doing now for people's minds not often it myself as a coach. No training his netflix. You train your mind to to be the best and most positive to get physically mentally us out of you in the sports field but you did a good to do that in life as well isn't it. Yes i think that if we can parent our children the way we wished we were parenting or actually creating a corrective emotional experience for ourselves and it's very nurturing and Some very healing away of on repair so It's a wonderful baker june something different for gender and it's also really nice. That helix had this kind of time with their kids that they would normally have if there wasn't home school and i know that there's a lot of frustration and you know you have to create time for yourself which seems almost impossible because there's always something you know when your children are common in need of assistance so It's kind of fun. Midst lesson that what's happening now. Good coalition lots of contrast and lots of really interesting unity. Some your children are probably always remember this. The monarch claim that they can december surfing. Yeah they will remember that period and they didn't understand what what the hell we do talk. Whoever you know teenagers they will understand. You know what's going on. Yeah yeah that was fantastic as a style. See myself as a coach. Because that's why did you know. Say from more into the fitness sports side of things but you can transfer that to other areas. They lines as well and then skilled in certain thing when you get older at least installed some sort of mindset for them to do whatever they want go wherever they want to. Do you know although i was more in the sports field area if they want an acting coach because they're doing accent or you know what you're doing and we going to that don't know much about how to do that but you they can get the further coaching from that. At least you know. The parents should have that coaching role as oil. Shouldn't they not not expect people to do it. People's rosewall ryan. Computers can't do that for children unless they feel good about themselves. Me roy is so is so like wonderful though that you are getting your children encouraged inspiration and you're cheering them on. And whatever doing but even the house. You're able to do that for yourself. So it's gentlemen you know they don't hear you they look at you. As example the review and then they believe on solves which is what a lovely gift soon. Thanks. i'm just trying to get that message out to to to most other people now i did mention it before. See there are people of us. We looked at a negative concerns of people came for a bad time in in the muck dam periods. You know they could be depressed this but why she's doing quite well when it all some people wondering how the future goes. I mean what you say. What advice would you give. How would you help. People get for that post lockdown as well. It won't wanna say lockdown. I mean honestly. Restrictions were eased in certain areas off to the pandemic during an often. What would you say people could help themselves to him. It's interesting because i think we're already negotiating every relationship that we have and not just the nation chair but you know every social structure so it's kind of like a reset button and that's i think where it can be kind of exciting for people who also stock in that things are so awful they can do all completely different in slink and new lease online and so i think people really need to trust themselves and feel their way through feeling your way through accepting an invitation to go out on the you know having often out at all and i use them because nobody knows for you better than you when it's just an that's the best way to navigate just moment by moment think things are going to be slow to get back to whatever this new normal. It's going to be and sir that times going to be helped and the other thing too is that we're all in this together and we're all kind of in the same place and i don't remember a time my whole life where i felt so like connecticut to everyone because or just all going through scanning so as that will be helpful to to re connect with people and away that now way you never did before yeah no absolutely absolutely I mean obviously. I know review the us politics kind on the united wasn't divisive stuff going on them. And i hope you know. America gets more less polarized and people do get in this together. You know what's going on. And i'll say globally as well you know on on you know i. I don't think it's anyone for its nature We're almost now a year. Since disease scott found its code nineteen obscene in nineteen. We're now towards the end of the year. So it's almost a year so people have got used to it. Progress is being made. I think people now have to adopt embrace. What we need to accept. Would you agree with that. And how how would you would do that. I think it will be helpful to embrace. Whatever is going to be for the next phase of the next step because the resistance certainly is helpful. Is that so. But i'm just wondering like how has been time wise to have you thought like times on fast or slow or Yeah off your june lockdown the the real serious lockdown in march when everyone had to stay in the house or shelter in place you call it you know it felt like gonna lost and they said i'll free weeks but obviously you can see now. This is going to be a long term thing where i am because i decided to the philippines up going back to london philippines back and forth so as decide to stay here and we can actually move around more because of the london. The northern hemispheres had been problems again is also building up again whereas where i am. It's eased so i can go out and have a game of golf wherever or can't do you. Uk so it also you question lost seems to be north of me united tons of my my semi retired live doing this podcast. Coaching stuff lab. That's kinda lot my post retirement. Jonathan the job i did before in pfizer is so it's quite relaxed for me really feel very relaxed and even stay in a home and doing wanna do as parents can still get organized. Sometimes it seems to be overwhelming. It's today time. Management was was was a challenge for me. Because i had to do and i had a few meetings to go to as well so i think was in london. It would have been more of a handles. People are feeding quite is a dragon. And it's like that really especially it's winter whereas in a semi retired life and it's relaxing cena palm trees and the sun in america. You've got the you've most play. You can go florida or new york and the two different nights on your eighty. That don't see that really in uk. I because you in such a good place you will be able to help somebody more people and that will feel good and i do think that are the best we can help by you through our own example so Best friend tom counting on that there are a lot of people who've been able to maintain their sense of salcombe wellbeing and and feel calm unclear because there are people that need this kind of helfer soon so that is that something good will a hotdog giving college in was myself to you know and i don't wanna make anyone to all the really this you can do in the home if you feel depressed. You can't do much outside in the wide world out there. I mean i've been staying in shape. You can still do that with outdoor training because it's not as you know is really when you're indoors in the gym at moment gyms are saying. Well the gyms a abandoned swimming pools a band all swimming. Pools go out in the fresh air in the countryside. Wherever really fit and healthy will go walk in nature of they've conification. I meditate on. I think a lot of people have. They started running and they started doing all kinds of like exercises. They never thought that they were doing if fire. So that's really wouldn't well. How people when they hear this. You know they'll be encouraged by the but tell us what you do in an in your sessions and how people can get help on the work. You're doing jamie the the other Served the offer is a texting surface. And the quickey texting option. And i started this before. Cova dayton at kwaidan nabu would go. It was at the request of some clients. And so you just time and then you text me in the text you back and it's really a great serves because a lot of people don't have the kind of busy they had before moving together more and our home one so The other nice thing about the texting option is that you have this on growing Transcript of your question in my answer and on and on and on and they realized that in many ways they really knew their own anson in so i was just the continent for them danton cost. So that's another option to recruit me. And i also like it because i think it allows people to warm ocean autism and they tend to condense in texting the issue which is in terms of resolving. You should for themselves as we get to motion one drowned in arm ocean instead of having a little clearer head. Abou you know what's really going on. It's bad i am. Yeah yeah and otherwise to slip with people over the phone or sti- soon but mostly it's helping people help themselves. That's for all the problems whose name have slightly the pows been themselves isn't really so you can give them the tools to do that to get themselves ratings. And sometimes you have the tools in new vendor. Sater's screw it i have altruism not gonna use them and i think that's powerful to six excellent. So how do people get hold of you. I mean obviously. I don't know. How did i get you sought i and get texting absolutely just a website and on the website has all the information you know. I tried to make it really clear for people and I think my books is such that you would know gidley would either feel good to you or no and the other thing hersh we must find. The person feels fifty shop around and find the best fit three so then super important risk and also they can find your book. The loss of a loved ever loving essence of is on amazon and so really quick read. You can open to any page from vince inside a little jam over. Keep reading re reading it to see a fine need. Change it when. I don't so it's really a lovely option. Yeah well some people they they find great pleasure in reading a book or just you know watching video will unite the needs to get in touch and have a one one or even do group. Coaching advocate tonight. Some people see want that as well so you know it depends on the individual. Feel but great work. You're doing out there jamie Really really loved the the. Why express yourself as well. Nice sought soothing voice. You have is also aside voice so with that. actually yeah. Welcome so true in lockdown whereabouts. Are you based in the us. Broadway so twenty five miles from chicago. But i'll give In the country silent thirteen. Eight bruce in lots of nature and wellbeing and that is helpful for me cosa you encourage people to get out of nature as much as possible who reassures spent. Who know. everything's we things going to be. Okay even sm when it doesn't feel that way. Yeah what do you live. I mean i'm around nature because of the tropical surrounds of palm trees and stuff. I know obviously. I can go to urban area of lock yourself within a few miles. If you need that you know people are ran. An open area. I mean in london. It's too easy to find somewhere. Green view in london united states. Lots of green parks and everything so will be able do that in some places they can't and what was she. Suggestive a concrete to make sure because certainly do some other eleven. Connie yes and i have thank forever wounded letting people listen to music something. Listen to podcasts. You tend to listen chief triggering birds and on youtube and there's hundreds and hundreds of youtube videos and some you find something that is your coaching up in that. In a moment you know you can just turn it on and aligarh subject. How we've we need that. We really do. We were responsible for figuring that opera when we needed. And even is just as a distraction every whatever it is so Throw it's what jamie is really been a pleasure talking to you in the united definitely given some good some good advice and really helping the audience out there with what they need to get through these times now so really really great pleasure. Speaking to jamie thanks for coming on the show talking to my audience. Say thank you so much for inviting sa- pleasure bubbly. That's all for this episode. Thanks for listening and remember if you want to support what we do. Then share subscribe and lieber review over on rate this podcast dot com for slash rate and follow the simple instructions. So for now. But i'll see you in the next episode. All the dave palmer show follow us on facebook twitter and instagram's.