3 Episode results for "Jacqueline Gold"
Episode 7: Jacqueline Gold
"Hello And welcome to spending place the podcast whereas be too busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer celebrities, seven albums in between having my five sons aged six months to sixteen years. So I spent a few plates myself being a mother can be the most amazing thing. It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions I want to be a bit Nosey and see other people balanced everything. Welcome spinning plates. Good Day to you. I'm trying not to stop every costing. Hello how are you? Every time I record. My poke costs some weird noise sorts I think that's rich in the garden with the Mayflower is that very annoying? That's probably a bit tunein. Isn't it? Well all persevere just in case When thing is rich does my editing so he might decide that he's GonNa let himself off with the leaf blower it's not. I'VE HAD TO START RECORDING The introduction to this week's podcast three times in my house because it's so hard to find a quiet place it's anonima bedroom actually sealed away And Roy embarrassingly I recorded today's guest Jacqueline gold in my house, and it was the most noisy place overcrowded anymore podcasts. So my house is noisy house. What more can I say that is the word I live in. I'm really excited about like excited about all the guests I know that but Jacqueline for me was a really special chats. I didn't know her at all. We only met for the first time when we Have a conversation and so I was really really really happy that she'd said, yes that she wanted to speak to me. So that was lovely. But also she is one of those women that was kind of always someone admired from afar. So Jacqueline is CEO of an summers. and she comes across as a very gentlewoman. You'll hair in her voice she's she's to gentle speaking voice. However, she is a very strong formidable and she a radical woman And I think being radical is something that you can maybe push further if you can slightly hypnotize people with a gentle voice at least imagine something like that might have happened when aged twenty one, she made a decision at the company she's working and some as the ended up revolutionizing I spent how sex shop is on the High Street So back in the early eighties Jacqueline happy idea when she was working on and she she was only planning to work there as a sort of work experience short-term thing. Back. Then women As consumers in the sex industry were only ten percent of the consumers, the rest of them are what she called it the raincoats gate. So scurrying in and out of the sex shops are having visited. I. Think she said it was a clothing party. It was equivalent to like a tupperware party She went with a an as colleague and she thought hang on a minute. What if we did? Lingerie and sex toys just for women at parties like Tupperware party but an an SUMMA's party and it changed everything and now women are seventy percent of the consumers. They are seventy percent of the consumers in sex shops but I doubt that there are seventy percent of the CEO's so. Jacqueline. Is still a trailblazer. She's still a revolutionary kind of woman and. We have a lot to thank her for because she has changed how women are perceived when it comes to thinking about their sexual selves. You know back in the late seventies early eighties women with still thought not really enjoy sex and not want to be participating in buying anything that might be just to enhance the pleasure, which is ridiculous. But also such recent history that's quite scary. Isn't it? Anyway I'm I'm going to merge quite bedroom and go Dan's my noisy kitchen backup tea If you've listened to before, you'll know have worked with one I'm happy to put on the Kettle U2 I'm going to listen again to the conversation how Jacqueline because Yeah I think he's pretty cool and has really done so much can't really underestimated how much she's achieved in her life. She's also mother to a year old girl. And a little boy who she speaks very tenderly and with clarity and practicality and gentleness who sadly died when he was a few months old so. Say. Thank you to Jacqueline for her time her wisdom, her words, and thank you to you for listening again to me. Yeah I have ever listen and see you on the other side. So, I was thinking about talking to you today I was thinking. What would probably what we both speak double the pace we do normally because there's so many things to talk about. I think I'm going to have long enough. I would say my best to shoehorn and. Your life as packed in more than than most people have. So we start with the hair. No. So what is happening in your working life at the moment? Well, this challenging time, not just burrito in general but just because you know the corona virus is really quite Everybody's the only game of how they make or work. Yeah So but that aside, you know we've got some great things going on with just at it's new range called my fav-, which is all about my very important for China, I my My they've okay is just let the short name for just the name, but did manage to get Lorraine Kelly to say vagina twice on on Lorraine Soleil. Achievement. Has Impressive. I, think so. I just I think women generally hassle second all the time and you know whether we will ever phase of your life with you've just had children or you've gone through menopause or whatever is you know sexual being is really important really important. So and it's not something to be trivialized, which is why we saw Bo out this well, actually the reason throughout this range. A range of It's got sex toys in it, but it's actually from therapy right through to pleasure candles and You know all sorts of things for the for that whole sort of. Wellbeing sort of failing, but it was because I had breast cancer I don't know that but I I, just Win The man to the doctor with. Prostate cancer or something. The first thing the doctor says is this is going to affect your sex life, but with women has not spoken about really and just think. You know there needs to be something that makes me feel more comfortable. So that's really what I've been doing. Yeah. Well, actually maybe that's Typically, iceberg actually when it's ever spoken about in relation to justice going on with women generally are our sex lives in our relationships with our body in that we know. When you have a baby and all those things it's not really something that is sort of alluded to sometimes about when it might be appropriate time to restart your sex life after you give birth but. You. The hormones and your emotional thing in your connection with yourself again, it's not really something that I don't know if I would've known who to speak to about the time more. If it's even really given much much space, we often feel embarrassed or are they going to think this is silly. Yeah it's not silly. Air Will I think I don't know I might be wrong but certainly I mean I'm friends with. Girlfriends where we're very confident about talking loads of stuff but I think. Talking about sex lives is something that I think is probably if I do you know. So, Pie Chart of what we talk about I think it's really tiny thing because most people are still. Very private, but also I feel like it's still quite to maybe even teenagers my friends talk about it or. It's because what? Because maybe they felt like it's removed that awkwardness because I'm sure once you. Open the floodgates. There's so much to talk about and actually what you've talked about with my given. The Hellenistic side, the the candles and the mass things. That's so key because it's so emotional and I think the older you get the betty recognizing the need to put up on equal footing. Really. It's not going to you're not going to enjoy yourself if you emotionally feeling like the space to do that. It's not just the physiologic. Congestion today. There are things that you about I. I had a mistake to me in February and I thought to myself. My husband in fancy me you know those are real feelings. This is something you can literally just gone through this February just gone. Sorry February last year. Okay. Okay. It's times flying so fast but yet every last year well, that's a massive ca I mean yeah that's. Alongside all the stuff that's happening with and some of the main that, and this is still presumably a Monday to Friday nine to five job that you're doing all the time. Yeah I mean I obviously anybody that's going through chemotherapy or treatment knows it's a pretty brutal time and yeah, you know. And you know you've got to listen to your body but. I'm working fulltime now because it was just important to me that as soon as I felt well enough, you know you everything is dominated by health issues and you want to get to a stage with you just a bit of normality back in July. and overseas off a ten year old daughter I wanted her to see mummy being you know active and and doing stuff again. So yeah, So. Yes. I. Anoc Gina I feel so much better for I. Think it's I mean it's different for everybody but for me it's good for my wellbeing. Yeah. Well, it is different but I think also I have spent a Lotta time recently I did a job with McMillan and they were introduced me to a lot of people who've been going through cancer treatment and one thing they were talking about a lot and this is particularly relevant to me as well. My stepdad's undergoing treatment at the moment and they're talking. About sometimes when people have had the treatment is the bit afterwards. That's actually really terrifying because you've had the the shock and the fear of your initial diagnosis. But then there's the course of your treatment that's going to follow when that's finished. That's the bit where you've got to think, okay. Hardawy reconfigure that experience back into the life I was having before I think you feel a bit vulnerable because you don't have that sort of bubble around you and yeah and you know those that tendency to look over your shoulder. But, we don't do that when we get a code. Nine. That's what you have to keep telling yourself having. Yeah. That must take Spurs. That's sort of the strength of mind. Also I suppose a little bit knowing how to deal with trauma. Really. Because it's a sort of invisible tour bus bays wants the other side of it. Does. He's like having that thing of it must stay in your peripheral vision because you've had your relationship with body one way, and then you've got to start thinking about ways it could it could harm you, which is really significant thing to go through. And I know for for our family. is been a really steep learning curve. We've all had experiences with cancer before, but having it very close to hire me something that. Has concentric circles. Everybody's everybody's affected by. So throughout all of this, you've got your your daughter and what was happening at the time when I did you always want to be a mom from when you were young? I was you know quite ambitious I Had this amazing idea that I wanted to. Do the party plan, which is sort of like Tupperware for those that don't know. How that was twenty one when that twenty one yet and I remember walking down the long corridor. And going into the boardroom to Susan Grey suited men about my idea. And actually one board member stood up through his pen on the table and said, well, this going to work is it women on even interested in sex? So on glad who those living victim, wrong. Yeah and some yeah and of course, it just took off and it was just amazing I mean you. To have a business that's growing twenty percent a year to a point where I had to stop advertising because I literally couldn't cope with the the rate in which we bring in all the teething problems that went with it. So it's been quite phenomenon and. There was all the challenges that went with doing something. So different. You know court coach changing. All I really ever wanted to do with empower women in the bedroom so much stigma at the time and I, think the fact that it was always for Women Only Major made a huge difference in sort of created this almost. Almost like a female institution. Yeah. I, know because even now stores you know eighty percent of our customers women. Yeah. so He's been a fantastic journey for me. Fantastic but not without its. And Eighty percent of the customers, a female for the fans this. Okay. But when you were young when the company was that the point you were twenty one and walking into boardroom, what was the split van? Os Ten percent ten percent. You know it was a very male dominated environment go into the stores and. You know it was the raincoat brigade that we in the stores yet was just totally different. You know it's I guess one of the things on most proud of actually is the way it's changed so much. Oh, it's a massive massive shift I. Mean. It's OK from women being object to being actually the customer. Equally underestimate what massive delays especially when we're not talking about. The shots were talking about massive. You know something that everybody sees in the radio now High Street Brian this is something that's widespread in every in every town. Yeah. We have over one, hundred, hundred stores we had one hundred and forty stores are. when I think back, you know I've been arrested twice of had a bullet through the post when I tried to open a store in Ireland. and how difficult that was then and then in twenty sixteen I think it was odd received. A CB from the Queen I'm thinking Gosh journey you know and you can't help yourself but look back and think how it was to what is light. Now I know what just of conflict for me is when you were twenty one, what was your role in because you've been working in the company from your teenage well I did some work experience I mean I thought that was working in the company he had full stores and it was mainly a publishing business. Then I had no intention of staying as I said, it was a very male dominated business. On. I was just doing some work experience Michael invited to and for those listeners will remember PD party it was like. A close party over intense meat and I went along to this party and the women at the Party neither I worked two summers. I remember sort of drawing a picture of my husband's into fair on a piece of paper on top of my head. along with all the other guests at the Party is one of Party Games. Yeah. This isn't quite how much in my career Stoltze by. It you know that is where it really started us where I got the idea women at the party said to me why don't you do parties for? women won't be able to buy sex toys, but we're too embarrassed going to sexual. So when you went to that party and that point so they knew about and some being a sexual but presumably, they would know someone that as you say, the brain cope has this sort of slightly different look and feel association. But could you just sense that there was a real intrigue from them? The world of buying things to enhance your sex life took him about your sexual actually because if you think about I mean we've been on a crusade for the NAS. Thirty thirty odd years because women could not by sexy underwear in the history blunt. They can today there was no such thing as a lacy, Bra? Let alone being able to buy something that you want to use in the bedroom. Yes. Men that mural those decisions. So. It completely changed or not, and for periods you know the men of that generation quite uncomfortable about women being empowered but of course. That's sort of a culture that's not not the case. Upward, has the world's largest network of independent professionals. To go to designer a video editor or a social media specialist for six days or six months. Because how and it's basically like they're right here in your office except they're not here here. So they can't hear Greg's remarkably loud typing anybody high ticket back. You can hear that from anywhere and upward professionals are proven rated and reviewed when you need and demand talent on demand help work is how Today. When you were talking about the effects of some annuity decisions and the the exciting boldness of your initiative aged only twenty one really reminds me of the effect Madonna has had on the music industry because. You basically did buy it. trickles down from that point because now, as you say going Lacy Bra is something that's very commonplace. Buying sex toys. There's lots of other shops that. Cater for women's sexual selves. In fact, I'd say off the top of my head in terms of the high street I feel everything is kind of geared towards the female consume. I can't really think of a high street place that's more for what you know the irony about this. It's so true. Seventy percent of purchasing decisions are made by women and yet most companies most brands are headed by men. Yeah. I've never got that never know but then is this in music industry. When I was eighteen, I signed my first record deal I went for a meeting with the mercury records and I was all excited. I had such an idea of what a music record company would look like and how like on finger on the pulse and when I was. So disappointed, there was a load people sat you start looking at their computers and using photoshop even like doing exciting design things or music things. Using Photoshop to do like promo copies of CDs and I was thinking that's the first thing of Fam- will own. Why didn't you put loads of work into that? Because that's the thing we'll be really excited about and turning over and looking at the details and trying to work things out about this new music, and then the boss Guy He's a nice guy. But. He was in his sixties and we're having a chat about music and he was correcting me all the time and telling me what people my age we're interested. I thought I'm science right in front of you an eighteen year old girl. WHO's passionate easy. Why didn't you ask me? I'm not going to be right about everything but have you found things change? I think what it is is more that you find your people and then there was some really good people I met run then to, and then they just continued on a really successful trajectory. So I wouldn't say I think that's been eliminated at all no and I think if you have art and commerce working together, there's always going to be starting uncomfortable bedfellows because you're going to get people who you know think they're snazzy job because it's music but ultimately what they're doing is working with stoke, you're you're. Making stock shifting it. So I think you're going to is going to be tricky to eliminate it completely. Or even if it's necessary to do that I, think it's more that I feel that there's A. Lot of exciting thinkers of the PEP in among them. When you find those people, you'll find people I feel like there's more options of how to do things and that's really exciting and I think it's probably more democratic as well. Because not everybody can thought then he's really glad you brought up your music I have to say to you I, don't if you've ever done it but I did. On induced Oh. And your your record groove to was one of my was no. Absolutely. Funny. About that I I knew you've done it and. I knew you were coming today I. Thought I started looking up lights of injuries and stuff, and I said to Clara had to stop because I thought I. Don't really want to know everything I'd like to discover things and I thought if I don't want to be correcting your story. If you'll find you said it was just. Wow I'm really thank he is a nice thing to do desert and thought it was it was lovely. It was so nostalgia I cry at one point. Yeah Music. So powerful this really powerful and it was really Really Nice team it was all women. Yeah, and Lawrence O. Lovely. Lovely. It was a really nice experience very different to what? I normally do. So yeah I really enjoyed it and it's so conic isn't it? So I started a privilege felt such a privilege to be asked yeah. As when they think I've done, I've done. Yeah no I mean. That's I mean people talk about it just as a compensation things that now, what would be your yourself? For that but I think nostalgia actually is an emotion I feel like I've only just started to understand because. Especially, if you're someone like me who had some songs, I'm probably best known for happened twenty years ago actually. So Group Jet Game Twenty years ago and When I was younger the idea of doing any sort of singing, those songs and people feeling nostalgic would be seen as like a dirty thing like, oh, why would you say saying relevant she? I went the other day to a gig of a supercross who I used to love when I was a teenager and I was really excited about seeing them anyway but going to the GIG and hearing all those songs took me back so massively but also so joyful it was so nice I thought nostalgia should actually be celebrated more. It's a really. Powerful thing. So reconnected me how I felt by men and I think music very good with is is a little portal that it works better than so many other mediums because the mom you hear record you usually usually related to something exactly it's happened in your life and we'll generate some sort of emotion definitely and also if you go through anything tough I found suddenly all those songs about heartache and you know happiness on the it's like I get this. Now these homes is speaking to me everything was like unlocked and you so glad those songs are there to reassure you that you're not the first not the last but in other people have experienced. Yeah Oh we'll have to listen to desert anti. Yeah. What was the context of grief jet? it was when I started dating my my husband. Together that long. So yeah, we've been together about. Twenty years. Cool. That's lovely. Thrown me. Hours. So when you were twenty one is that when used did you then start taking over the business in your twenty s? Yes. Okay. So it was all about the party plan. and then I became chief executive when I was about twenty five. and then that somebody must be highly unusual is a very. Very. Business Mind but that sounds pretty young. It was also difficult because it was there were so few women right in business and you know wherever? I went it was men and you know it it was it was just. Difficult. Not, just because I was young woman but also the industry in China, make the changes and it was doing extremely well but. People saying this is a fad. Give it. Give it two years last and there was a lot of negativity around to they felt threatened by any agenda, your youth as well and. Both of those things but also because I was trying to do right, I was trying to empower women and I think that was that was different to that. You know it sort perhaps challenge there. I'm not. I'm definitely not against men, but certainly, there was some men that felt it challenge. They must feel unity I. Think actually women can be just as threatened as well by successful women's sometimes because. Some of us have raised incredibly traditionally but some people think traditionally. And a life that the twenty seven I think I think sometimes, you know where we can all be guilty of. So falling into quite lazy ways of thinking about what's expected. And sometimes we do it to ourselves I. think that's part of intrigues me about talking to people about working alongside raising a family is the I think is. Is Different to being working for the with the questions you get asked the way you're thinking and the amount of logistics is like suddenly I actually funding enough with my kids I often think of them like like companies sometimes is like golf five different books vas in my head at how each thing is doing and where the priorities are and which areas we're experiencing growth in my. Things going into the negative. It's like all the all this project managing I just never never thought I'd be doing, but but for you and you became a mom did. Did, you find your your business life and the the family life did they. Work, together pretty smoothly. I mean, my my business impersonal tends to blend into one. You know that's always worked quite well for me. So and I think it's a way of me maximizing more time with my daughter and it's always been difficult. You know. More at the beginning because I think you need to get into that flow and you just think you've got it right and then its own out the window and you miss her. You, late for a school play or something like that. Yeah. It's awful for women I think is very challenging because we want to. You know we want to have our own identity and we wanted to be successful in our own life or do our projects that we want to do. But we won't be a really good mum, same time and. but I have learned as I've as I've got older in times gone on the actually you know it's important for us to do those things and whilst of course, most women I've had my guilty moments. I also do recognize how important is for scholar to look up to her mom and and be inspired by undoing. Yeah. For she told me the other day actually for International Women's Day. The teacher asked her who inspired her they still the children she said, you know my mommy and it was such a lovely feeling to know that. Yeah. and. You know I want her to grow up believing she can be wherever she wants to be but to do that. Yeah, you know we mustn't I find so many women I mean I run this competition on Wednesday called well where women. tweet about the business and I sort of. Profile the talk three and and then I sort of to learning as and. Female entrepreneurs. Yes, and ninety mentoring launches full them. got. ME. I was going with this now Conroy to write off on a tangent Talking about before then. I think you're talking about women how we see us challenge ourselves I just think. What is so we talk about this I talk to them when we have these lunches what's so important is that more women do raise their head above the parapet and that we should boldly celebrate our success I'm what we've done with. So keen to play down retreatment. Yeah. But I think it's good for our children to see that particularly out daughters because I mean I. I I think so many parents bring their they're sort of boys up to be brave and the goals to be perfect definitely, and there is no such thing as perfect and you know I see it in the boardrooms see women that sort of get up and expect you are expected to pull the to I've been to off sort meetings with lawyers where they're equal and yet the woman positive like don't do that. but it's something as soon as being your own worst enemy with I. Think. I. Mean Funding Cloud just literally trust me about this morning about how many times I've? Made things really muddy actually confused people with the signals giving because in my head I want to be quite capable, assertive, and Clare an unapologetic as the main thing I'm striving for I, think the older I get it I really want to get there just the desire to apologize for everything all the time I, want to eliminate that from my life I feel like that's really really sets you back if you start off of your sentences with sorry but. Apologizing for things. I don't know. I actually don't know. Woman to women. I look at you and I I'm an all refer you do five children and working at the same time I think is phenomenal. I struggled from time to time having just the one. Well, I think is the same do the same issues? I think it's just Everybody's got different ways manifested but actually, I think the issues of having one is actually very similar. Tommy lots. It's just probably Short change them. More in terms of the time they get. And there are a lot more use to asking me to do something and then me going off I'm really sorry that through the to the nets not I, think, I kind of have to go for the basic. The basic thing is being good enough most of the time anyway 'cause I caught the going above and beyond is something that I don't always have time for really and hopefully they'll forgive me one day. Until now I I don't believe that's the I remember saying talking to somebody dying saying to them, but I really want to do this whatever it was because you know I won't be an awesome mummy and my daughter overheard it and said, but mommy, you offer an awesome Mommy Oh and I think we just beat ourselves up to I. Think the to Harness Oh definitely. Yes I think so too You think when you were working mom you actually try that you know you often try harder because you're trying to compensate. So all even found the end. Yeah I did actually have really inspiring story about you want. There's a lady quickly Lisa that came to your hair wants, and she's a really good friend of mine to release a loser and I was talking to on the phone. She's one of my kids got mothers. I do her and she she was hearing me also going Oh. You know this is gone wrong this week. the house you know funding really tricky and. You know. What happened? So I was finding everything was getting a bit chaotic and she said to me well, actually, I just this lady hair and Jacqueline Godin, she she said to me that in her house she writes everything down and tells everybody thinks he said because it's written down everybody just knows what they're doing. That's inspired I'm definitely going to do that so. I. Mean I. Know Lisa very well, and she's just She's she's obviously noticed. I am a bit of a list maker over that's brilliant and do you you sit down and regular meetings with everybody the only one I am super organized and I. Think if you if you have your life jam packed with so many things I for May It's the way can I can do is if I can be that organized And yeah, I guess you know Peop- you know I'm a team player anyway. So you know and I'm very, very lucky to the people I do work could just great. And we're all like minded and I think that's the important thing I think if you the people around, you know you need to be share the same values and work in the same way and I think that that helps them work. So it does work for me. So do you find that way that you handle your working in the way that you handle stuff in the home is actually quite similar in terms of approach it is really two different. Hats I is my husband's constantly remarked right that you bring your work home don't write, but he's just to be honest. He's just got used to me being super organized. Yeah and if you need to get things done you, you mom thought he'd be life with pre pre baby. You look at the kind of mother you are and the yet that's that's pretty much I thought it'd be no I. Think Life is so different when you have a child child and I. Just I'm definitely more emotional more planted. Am I. Think you you don't think you ever know what you're going to be like no I. Think you're right I actually although I, say that I think I thought I was going to be a bit stricter. Actually, I'm a lot more. Relaxed about things. Yeah. Which I think is I think it does me but I think maybe because there's do you find your husband is therefore more strict. He's quite reliable. I don't mean we're not is definitely boundaries I think that's pretty essential and kids really actually crave the I. Think if I, if they didn't have that and there's there's lots of continuity, there's lots of safe predictability in well and I really care about that. But I, think it's more just when things go wrong key or how I handle it. If I feel that their behavior isn't why wants or they're not doing the things I feel they should do I, think I'm. I think I'm better at sort of trying to find a different way because being strict actually doesn't work for every kid anyway I don't think some children really respond if you get quiet had tea tree but for the kids then. Definitely, like my. First, one I think responded better if I start getting a bit stern that would really upset me hated to see me cross Assad. So he would immediately shift is behavioral next one came and he would just argue back so. I had to kind of try different tactic. Really. So I think I think they've kind of taught me different skills I needed. Really. Not Two days before I must bear. I wouldn't describe myself as strict but I, do carry through. So, if I'm going to do something as much as it might break my heart to do I, will carry it through because I. Just don't see the point in empty threats. Yeah. I. You know. I'm I was trying coach at the same time and explain things to her and I think of always done that. Yeah I mean I had A. Situation where she searched something on her ipad. This is like about a year ago now. that she shouldn't have done. Yeah. It was following the TAP for sex education at school, and then of course, what do they do? The first thing they do is they go on their ipads search sex. So I was moved defied told her not again the Nicole she did it again. Yeah. The IPAD away I've literally it was year ago of only just given it back as an ironic that that was what it was the fact that. You say that I mean. Children are curious. Oh. Yeah. Life isn't it they are going to do that and I think maybe you could show bit naive to think as a parent not anything to do with what I do. But as a parent is a bit naive to think not going to do now, I thought exactly the same situation with one of mine with an ipod he'd had a friend over. And I didn't they've been playing and I reached for the family ipad method need to look something up and it's been doped up just before hop homegirl boobs. Drink. Hoke obey starts out quite innocent biggest adult really really terrifying me quickly, which is mine. I had no idea. I mean we've got family filters, what kind of thing but I think you've still and actually that was really tricky because having conversation with kids and I'm all about every conversation every subject they can talk to me about anything I. Think there's a way to make age appropriate for whatever you're talking about the. Because of what he'd search for I felt like I had to on lots of issues which I was finding quite challenging. Like saying well, just because you could see some boobs doesn't mean you can you're allowed to CNN poops. Yeah, it was. It was really tricky with that was finally school I mean So she's turnouts this she must have been about eight at the time or nine are a nine she was motive. So, I got some I. Ran The school for Advice I got some age appropriate books because I suddenly thought. She's ahead of the curve I need to explain maybe nor had I think they asked to hear those words and the playground around them and what heard is quite good thing to do is to ask them if they've seen anything that worries them and ask them because we might be able to know immediately what is they've seen, but they might actually not really much of what they've seen and and also as this over sharing thing I think pretty much everybody can probably remember the first time they saw a glimpse into adult world and it probably is everybody around the age around the seven eight nine it could be mucking about a friend's house or. something. You heard in the playground and thinking I need to know more or a book that's a bit high up on a shelf and got section in it where you think. Oh. About that, it can even be a medical health. Can you think not sure these pages are intended for me? I. Think there's everybody's got a memory of that and I think. So long as communication lines open. That's probably the best that you can hide for because I. Think the worst thing that kids can walk away from his either feeling. Of Hugely, concerned or frightened or you know confused by it or feeling. So for shame shame as I'm sure you would know lots from all the research into your you know potential customers that shame around around sex those things can last a lifetime actually if from when you really quite young if nobody's there to say well. So much more opening our conversation or you'd like to think. Yeah today. I certainly I'm like, you say it's about that age appropriate compensation. and letting them know that you would ever you action you've taken is to protect them and the you know they're not quite ready. You know from an H. point of year, yeah. And I remember saying to scholar at the time you know this is the things on the Internet on real. They don't represent exactly life you know. Yeah. So Scott because you said she's come to work with you sometimes. So does does she not? Hurt a you your line of work. So business rather than knowing too much about context of it. She she to her she just knows that we do laundry because she sees online. SCREENSAVER So no, she doesn't. She doesn't know about the sex toys. It's not. It's not I'm sure in the future she obviously will. But yeah, she tend nearly eleven. It's probably be incredibly blase brilliantly sort of yeah. Unfazed by everything, which would be a gift is that for a young girl to just be able to walk through that at lessons and teenagers, but they find post things at school don't they? Yeah that's true I. Always. Seem to know more than you think they know I think that's true. But also they're not. They don't need to learn everything from US actually and I think. I'm always reassured when I remember the I'm I am the mother which is a really important role, but I am also just the mother. There's all these other people in the you know all these other. Areas if they can get information and have conversations and. I think that really takes the pressure off me a little bit really when I remember I'm not I don't have to deliver a complete package of the growing up and up to deliver them eighteen. Okay. I've given you all the knowledge you know it's okay for it to come from different places and you know they not on their own about pop growing up is it is it is got to have the bits where it's GonNa bit Wonky and they've also got to do the big and they pushed us away which is you know it's part their but then you come back I'm sure I did well, we definitely have my mom went dreading. NAB It doesn't really work anyway it's fine because then I mean I live ten minutes away from my mom and we've just went away with her a couple of weeks go and it's like I think I think. Yeah go notable a boy Oh boy is just A. Future Yeah that's why I could say about the he looking up the whole goal boobs and no one's identity is revealed. But yeah it's. Is Lots of tiny man in the house not so tiny h my eldest is just over six foot. Yeah that's quite weird. If I get my baby who won and I hold him up one day, you're going to be here. Yeah. Day I'm going to be like their little mom how it is that I that's Good, little way of property will come quicker than I think. Yeah. Yes. It's all these boys and I'm so determined to raise. boys the. Can recognize and encourage strong women in their lives and I think I think i. think that actually got. Strong. Women. Yeah. They've got a lot of that and I guess you you watching football matches and what we're not that's the thing I haven't none of them. Play football than none of them are interested in football might be one of the little ones might when they're out of. The moment now, it's quite techy. Tech stuff and there's definitely a lot of play fighting and that Kinda thing. But I don't remember my brother and sister doing that I suppose I'm normally a little bit. Goes as far defensive by trying to encourage people to understand that might not be exactly what you think. I go home to because most people pull quite a face when I have five boys and like I've literally had A. A member had my. I've been my fourth and I took him I. Think he had to his six week check at the hospital or something he says that the first time I'd gone out just me and the baby like, Hey, let's go out into the big world and we'll get and back and there's some. Okay. Sat next to us on the cheap on the way there and he said Oh a little boys as far as I said. Oh God. Go with you go be with he was so happy. Felt so profoundly sorry. But it was so like. I actually found it. Really funny. Is your daughter quite similar td thing she quite motivated with her work and getting things done on the lists and things she's doing well at school, but that's only really come in the last couple of years with both creative. Lovely. During painting and stuff together. So that's sort of a bonus She's very willful and I love that about her yeah. she's. She's also I love is the thing even though she's molly only child she's very confident and funny and loves engages with adults quite well, which I guess is she's only child. so she definitely is her own. Volumes of characteristics but yeah, I do I do see some of some of me and have as well it must be quite hard. To tell of kids when they're showing that wilfulness. Feel like so many I know that that man in the boardroom you through Penn Donen said, this will never work about the and some as parties. There's sometimes when you see a feeling in your view Tommy that you're doing the right thing meeting coming head to head with it and seeing that happen there must have been apart with the thought that kind of gives you that extra fire. So when you recognize that trait in Utah By. Converting for man. Gone it's good to be a set of You know I know I, find that with mine actually I think that can. I can sometimes be a bit T- sympathetically Oh, I I recognize that for me, I think it's a powerful tool. Isn't that when you're when you're parenting when when you look at it as you've been such a successful businesswoman for you know for such a long time, your career was so established by the time you had your baby did you find it? Tricky to to shift and have give time to yourself and let the business of. Do its thing in a slightly different pace or did that? Did it not really feel like that? It was quite difficult time for me at she sort of bitter sweet because Scott was a twin and She she had a baby brother as well who was very poorly when he born so. He he passed away eight months later. So we went through a very, very difficult time so. You know. It was it was difficult getting a a balanced because you know we take scholar to to see Alfie and You know we've actually got some noise video footage of the two of them together so. You know everything to do with work just obviously was totally up in the avenue and sort of went on hold And then. When he sadly passed away it was then a case of. An and I'm sure there will be parents out there that have been in this situation I'm sadly where you you you. You've got your own grief to deal with but at the same time you want to be strong for your other child. Yeah. You know and that that's That sort of. Is Challenging but. Sort of helpful at the same time because it makes you you know have to deal with that and you know we've always sold Alfie in the conversation we wisdom things to keep his memory alive, which is. which has been nice because in a way that means he's still here the an particularly for scalloping twin you know there's the extra connection which you know. To. How to manage that? But Yeah that that's sort of made it. That made it difficult but. You have to in some ways you have to get on with life for the for the sake of the child. I am and I'm sure saying difficult is. Sometimes language doesn't really do enough to to help us up because. I can't imagine how awful that must have been go through and. I. When I've tried to think what it must be like to lose a child. I think I would want everybody to speak their name I'd want to sing from the rooftop. So everybody knows that they existed they were here so I can very much. Understand why Alfie has got to be of everything forever he he was here is a real person and he's scarlet little brother. He's you know your other baby I think. The so much awkwardness when you experience something that is. Everybody's biggest fear I mean I who knows how to deal with experience in the death of a child is just is the thing that most people if they even start the. Tabernacle and think about it. and I think. I mean my moment to something to a matic and she described it as. Like. Becoming a member of a club that you never wanted to be a member of a neat properly find the people that been through similar things. But it's it's very much the story of your family and what happened and also you you know. You go through life never thinking those two things will happen to you, and then when you suddenly find yourself in that situation. It's like. Well. Is Words don't describe how that feels. and how you cope with that it's you know you'd never think you could possibly coat with that and of course you. Suddenly finding. Yourself Having Compensation University difficult conversations and talking with medical people and You know the midwife, and all of those challenges an even giving birth, which is supposed to be a really joyous time. And how you know this what an evening now Just. Every every year when it scarlets birthday, you know we're having a birthday party one minute and going to. the symmetry the next you know that that is quite quite you know those mixed emotions all day is very difficult that is I mean the things that you would. Say. would be good for people to to to know how to handle situations like that. If they find, it happens to a friend of them or something that things that people did or said that will really helpful or is it just people filling? It's okay to bring up and talk about it is helpful. I think I. Fool. You know how you do with it with any other children you know. Sometimes, even now scarlet will go to bed and Scarlett has attendance. She's talk he can be a bit emotional. and. She'll say to me mommy I can't stop thinking about Alfie and and also to let's do a little prayer and we'll sit down at the end of the bed and we'll do the prayer together and that always helps her and it makes her feel better. It makes me feel better. She feels like she's communications in. So that's something we've always done also we did we made a picture STA had a a copy sort of treasure chests. You always had this pirate theme in his bedroom. So we we got this treasure chest painted in pilots theme, and we filled it with all his special things every now, and again, we'll go through those those sort of memories together, which I think is nice and. You in within our own family, we talk about often but not so much outside the family But equally, you know if it comes up in conversation like now it was part for life so. You know I think you set the tone I was going to say I think I mean certainly. when I was talking to death. Oh take my lead from you because I would never want to bring up something really painful. Didn't feel comfortable I think people will take your lean. You know if you don't bring you up then maybe you don't. WanNa to talk about it but like you said, you know Alfie was so important. So yeah, I can't talk about scarlet without talking about. And you know you won't celebrate his short life as well? That's that's equally important to me. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah it's It's really. Really Special I think that Scarlett will be able to fill. She has that way of communicating with him in a way that acknowledges and accepts how she feels because grief and these these emotions and not us then logical straight road you know you can have. From what I understand. You have a day where it feels like a long time ago and another day where it feels like it was just yesterday and and maybe when you were doing the desert discipline thinking about the music that must bring things back. Oh, total. So viscerally. His funeral we had a record wishing on a star which the most roy smell. Yeah which I loved always loved. But obviously, it now has a different meaning in. You know couldn't help getting tearful but. You know I think that is the way it's. An, we shouldn't. You know you don't know how you're going to react to situations and. If you get upset, you get upset that is nothing to be ashamed of. Uncomfortable about But it's you know it's part of our life story isn't as part of what we've been through yeah exactly. That's the life you had. I think. The thing I when I had my first baby born on early. So sunny he's GonNa compliments early in hospital and some people. By no means comparable but it's it's obviously not the traditional accepted ending to a pregnancy and you know people weren't really sure how taught me about it? We should congratulate me or not and oversee I had the baby that turns into a patient immediately which. Is What we've both been through with that but I think that I. The thing I always felt like was. So. It was slightly pragmatic party was what well this is just I was never going to be still pregnant with him. He was either going to be by I was going to be at home with me. He was either GonNa be in hospital or or it's still be pregnant. So I think you just get on with the reality of what you know and as you say, that is just what happened to us as a story and That's that's how life shapes you. There's so many things that happen and. You know you're hoping for is the good stuff I? Think the thing that can be. You have to be careful of I. Suppose if you have what's your mind sort of? A. Charmed life or a successful life that you don't feel that there's anything that the scales have to be cost in one way life doesn't work like the fate is not sitting there somewhere thinking if had much of a good thing that got to do that is just the that's just what happens to think to people and talking about being open often reveal so much the other people on three to enough the human connections that can happen of the. Of the multiple Mattie things but. I think it's still something culturally maybe that brilliant about a lot of time I think it's I suppose it's just it's it's awkward. Isn't it? You don't want no one wants to make someone feel really sad if they feel they getting through the day and it's working for them also has the person that's being in that situation. You don't make other people fit all good. So But? You know I think that I think as a society. We do handle these things better than you know, say ten years ago. You know maybe one of the positive things. So it's out social media is that people are more open I. Don't know I think so I think. So definitely, and the more we everybody continues to talk about the things that are affecting them you know. Mental health issues with the things that. They become commonplace and the great thing about Carson, what you're doing is You know it. It doesn't make people. People don't feel alone. Yes. It's. It's helpful to other people that they know that the if it's happened to them, they're not the only ones. And actually talking of that when when I was initially thinking about. Having these conversations about working moms. One thing I thought is I really don't want it to feel that for every every woman that either. Work, or family life is the thing that is like the icing on top of everything under you know you can be doing your work. But Hey, if you're if you become a mother is going to access all this creativity in drive, you didn't know you had an his religion. Amazing. It was more to reassure people that if you find yourself trying to work out if you can retain your sense of self and still continue to be. A knife that satisfies you it's actually possible. It's you know you're not. You're not going to suddenly find yourself sophomore denies and Jordan entity just because you've become someone's parent and it also made me think a little bit about all the many women out there that must be. Who already thinking that they want to start a family and for whatever reason, it's taking longer than they want I grew up in my stepmom doing many rounds of IVF. Was Thinking, I wonder if I know that something you experience and I wondered if there's a almost like a third lane of of traffic really when it comes to this whole idea being a working mother, which is the. You've also got the you know you're not. If you're decided already that you want to have a baby and you're going about a really intense process of trying to become a mom I wonder if everything's already begun to change for you and and you're actually you found yourself a mother with a baby if that makes sense. I I. Don't really know that's how how it feels Well, I've been married twice. So I got married very young in my twenties. Was Catholic boy and he If I was twenty when I got married to him. which by today's standards is forty John for so. We we were married for eight years together for ten. could you change so much? Yeah, and we didn't have any children. Thank goodness and. I was always one of those people. I want. You know I did want to have children but with the right person. and then of course, when the time I met, Dan, I was that much older. So. We. know we just decided that we would go the obvious route because you could spend ages waiting and then find it's even you know later and it was gosh, it was a really difficult time I mean we went we were successful in our forth our forth try. But it's it really challenges you as a couple. Yeah really challenges challenges us a couple of we actually broke up. For a period of time, it must be a surprise, the strain puts. Hundred so normal strain and we we did in the we tried to in this country three times we went to America. And under the and actually the the. The. The attitude was so different. I really was something we really noticed it was very process driven hair and very sort of You know. Quite, quite difficult in having to do. You have to count slaying and all. But when we did it in America, it was just such a positive. You have such a different way of doing things sometimes, which suited suited. Our personalities are suppose in the sense that will certainly suited mine because it was more when than if in America that's how they were okay and So suits the idea of American cakes they've just be like, okay we're GonNa make this other they just they do have that positive. Yeah positive. funny enough just changing subjects I remember that being the case when I started business. I, remember going to a conference in America and they were so everybody celebrating each other success whereas I think at that time. You know we were. We people that successful sometimes find it difficult to talk about it. You know But they have just a tight different way of doing things and a pull out agriculture has changed. You know we see things like Jenkins. You know other the apprentice yeah. You know there's a bit more of a difficult culture here, but I would still like to see more celebration of women in Business and women realizing they don't have to be. aggressive to be, successful. Massively significant point actually that we're not trying to emulate anyone else that's gone before it's all about bringing rain strengths to the table. Totally you know I know I'm going off on tangents here but. One of the things I talk about women being successful. You know even in my own business is you do not need to be loud to be successful. But you know but you do need to contribute if you're if you're in a career maybe eight. As as CEO light to see women put themselves for would not speak up and talk about ideas. So that's my pillow reminds. Few top it was still. Conversation about GROUT OR WE'RE HAVING A. Proper conversation. Yeah Sorry I. Think it's funny. We've been talking about. These costs and everybody's is much more significantly quiet. The mind is really annoying that will tie the my house and there was some. Sorry, about that. I'm so sorry about that. Well to talk you about the importance women not being aggressive I. Know that do you need to take? No? Don't WanNa Lake Elephant. Great having Lee sounds in the background I almost wonder why do we? Why do we cut them out because this is real life it's as we probably won't I actually feel very safe I don't want people to get like thinking that I'm just like I don't know that they're trying to focus on you in amongst though this. So long as it's enough that we can hear US mainly then I'm fine with it too because I'm able to. Have a conversation when lots of other stuff is going on because you learn that skill dot need not just from having kids but from being musician as like this is different things happening often had to be directed with your attention and and what did want us you do is your mom working mom I know we've heard about your dad, but was your mom she wilson. A very, it was a very traditional upbringing type went work. You know mom stayed at home And It was funny because I think even when I went into business, it was sort of alien to my mom. And I she's passed away. She passed away about sixteen years ago. So I wonder what she would be what she would be thinking of me now when she saw disposal the beginning but what was she thinking when you think she was really proud. Yeah obviously things have evolved and gone on and I think she would be really proud but probably Also. Nervous for me at the same time because I think. You know parents one time it was any boys that grew up went into business and it's not something that goes dude frightening the recent actually thing. I mean things doesn't get back from even thought my grandma was a working mom but she wasn't really she stopped when she had my my mom and that was it. They just stayed stated at home and obviously absolutely nothing wrong with that. But this is all about just having choice choices the big empowering thing and I think they'll also payment though and I would probably talking. You know thirty forty years ago. There was a period where it was so frowned upon goals having careers. you know having children are not maybe you still coming with their career. You know there was that added goats. Yeah. That you know there was a few that MOMS should stay Yes. At an look after their children definitely I think still now you can be punished for and also there's this flip thing where if you are someone that is Seemingly from the very successful at what you're doing then probably you might call yourself parent but you pretty nannies and you're not really doing much. We've got this wall these weird judgments that made not by me I really don't think about that but you know you hear it and see it and I think it's so bizarre why are we? Why are we not just a? Thumbs up I think people have to remember so much that other people is destiny has so little to do with what goes on in their life. So why do you care of someone else's? Life setup is very different. Yeah. I you know I'm very fortunate. My husband works from Home but my mother-in-law lives too far away and obviously my mom's passed away. you know some people will have grandparents helm out during the week and So I think everybody, you know uses the resources that they have completely absolutely and everybody's trying to make it all work actually and. Unless you're one of the people in the family life you probably don't really know what's going inside. So he's probably step back from being judgmental nobody's getting it right all the time lows bins where it does go a little bit wonky and we'll be. And it's it's I. Suppose that's Instagram. Idea of how everything is where you can feel Oh, they've really nailed it and what about me? Actually I do think I do that to myself sometimes I have a kind of Mum's net forum somewhere in my head weather kind of. Stepping away saying. Well that's fine. It's fine. If you want to do it, I'd pressing. I never would. I think I think I've got better at recognizing that. No one's really. Feeling like they've totally nailed a whole judgement thing It's so destructive destructive. So destructive and negative, and let you say who knows what's going on with people's yes. Yeah. Well, I think you know does feel that maybe. The tide is turned. From the next generation, they might be a little bit better at thinking about what goes on. There's been so many things culturally whether it be happening to people and their real lives or three TV's and dramas and stories, and even my son eleven year old son simply today was about being kind and trying to see people for who they really are rather than you know stigmatizing them. I think I. do hope that they're going to be. We place so much emphasis on kindness. Now with with kids I don't remember being told half as much to be kind a nervous more. Maybe we want. You know I mean you know what? I think the way schools are taking on that social response. Yes. Well Yeah. It's really important. It is you know, I remember when when I, when we were looking schools for Scott owner, in fact, we've just been looking for senior school and of course we always. As parents we now say, well, what's your pastoral care? What's your policy on bullying? What's this? Yeah, you know my parents probably didn't ask that question. It just wasn't a word. You know it wasn't a thing then. So I think schools. It's it's heartening to see how that's changing. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, I think they're realizing that the more holistic support you can give individuals the better they tend to cope with life in all directions really and actually. There's lots. About sending to kind of America's about let so many ways to succeed of. Making an a or ten tunnel whatever it's it's about sort growth of a person, isn't it and and that whole collective thing taking a village to raise a person actually continues the way three to actually it's probably related to always firmly in your twenty s I was thinking because some people say, Oh, it's GonNa be where when the kids have left home which obviously long way off but I just feel like not they're never going to nothing is going to be one one here like coming back just can't picture that they'll. Be Off one for. The nights kind of I think we're having more protracted Charlton away with as well and people learn taking a little bit longer maybe to find their profession, we don't have job for life in the same way we previous generations did as well so. Everything costs show that can also be overwhelming. I mean I wanted to for your. Daughter what she'll want to do when she's older because having A. A mother that's done say much must be awfully inspiring but also you know it kinds make you feel like. What's what's the thing I D- whereas my thing I did it sounds like she's going to find it, but it's just I think for all. When you when your parents do the thing they love and they do it in a way that's manage them see them through a lifetime. Stop worrying about them. Do you know I I? Think that Are. Always. told her that she can be wherever she wants to be. You know there's no pressure on her from me to you know continue in the business I. You know she. The great thing about cases they changed their mind from one week to the next year. We WanNA do yeah. I. Mean The the thing that she seems to be quite consistent with she wants to be a pilot So one minute she says Apollo the next one is a teacher and she wants to be an artist. You know she's An I guess you just think we we're much better at letting them find the wrong thing. Yeah. Definitely rather than putting them under pressure to be a lawyer over doctoral any of those sorts of perceived perfect they will jobs, e-eh careers and I think that. You know when we were looking at schools for actually it was finding an environment that we felt that she was going to be really happy in and she you know she could flourish in and I think. I think you know it's encouraging. I think as well. What she ends up being passionate about will be the thing that she's really good at. Yeah. So as the happy I'm hoping she will find her passion. Yeah, I think that's my big from my kids too I. Think the one thing we think that way every day doesn't feel like work in the same way. Does it feel connected to your to job in that way and I'm sure with uteri? Is probably a pit. MARCI's that yeah children's musical. Some of them but not I don't know if it's going to be saying there's musical instruments everywhere. Yeah and the piano and guitars and the other stuff everywhere. But I, actually have a feeling that be something may maybe maybe a couple if that I mean they definitely my oldest one's eldest two. Very different passions at actually they love me. Well, the oldest loves music, but I don't know if that's the thing calendar doing. I think it was almost too obvious unite. It's so like my husband both musicians. As a music everywhere in the house. I think it's like it's a bit but need to find something else. They find something they love. Yes. Be Happy, right? Oh. Yes. ME. Although I think if they one of these people that paint themselves silver and stands in Piccadilly Circus with that. Yeah. There's some things I'm not. Daily another. Or? By somebody some, what's J. Lo at the super bowl during her paw Incredible but then I guess she's not just doing that. There's no tear than Any other thing I want to ask you this city thing really because I've had it sometimes where my working from my family life of clashed in a way that isn't maybe idea like when I when kids have come to festivals and ended up such wondering on stage halfway through my gig and things like that. Have you did wonder if you'd ever survey pinned your work back and found like toys next door like of potential new range of sex toys for the shop or something like that. Not to be that much for. I have open line up. To a meeting to find scholar whose. schooled. Funny face or something called on the. I don't think there's been anything. If she doesn't really. There's things that you know she has to wait to see is. Like hastily like screening of something. going. Swerving around different. Visited me in the office, a couple of times and You know The might have been something a little bit obscure on the desk and say Oh that's just you know you could have that one of those prohibition things you know where it goes from like a speakeasy and you press the button and like the table. Funniest last, we'll just like a normal office. No. We've not had any embarrassing moments. Good. So I'm sure there to come I. mean they get get more embarrassed in the teens yeah. It's one of the unexpected joys actually. I think I've got all that to come. Yeah. But it's actually really fun. I. Didn't realize I find. It would be embarrassed kids. It's really. Quite like it I mean that is more about me than than you. Thank you so much for. ME AND you'll be happy to know it sounds like the grouts arrived we've been chatting and. Since that you're. Always exciting. Opening. session. Thank you. Thank you. So that was jacqueline gold, what did you think? I mean a gentle voice it's true. Isn't it? But when I listened Beco- can really hear. The radical radicalism of what she did is pretty incredible isn't it I? Mean you know she summarized herself she said death threats she's been arrested is a bullet in the post is is woman has dealt with a lot but it hasn't stopped her and she now she's tackling menopausal women, their sexual selves again, this is still pretty new, pretty groundbreaking and. Maybe it shouldn't be maybe we should come further but as where we're at. So you know we just gotTa deal with a move forward and thank goodness as women like Jacqueline around to think about these things and do something about it. next week I am joined by Julie Dean He may or may not know she sets up a company is you probably do know the Cambridge Satchel company and the fascinating thing about her is that she sets up a number of months based on a spreadsheet of ideas she had a various ideas that she thought could generate enough money to pay for her children's school fees. She thinks she had about three months to get started summer holidays to get on with it and she didn't just do that she's kept growing the company is getting bigger and bigger. And she even advises the government on small businesses and helps entrepreneurs. So she's very, very cool and we chest it in the most notable places the British library. So yes come and join me next week and thank you very much for joining me this week finding Casey Jesse is next to me WHO's been very, very quiet while I'm talking. Thank you being say quite Jesse did you enjoy this week's cost? A very quiet sincere. Yes. Of. The CNA week have a good run take care of yourself and you see less love by.
Episode 14: Jilly Clark | Jilly Clark Design
"Design and branding is such an essential part of a business so much so that almost becomes invisible much like music in the film. You only notice when it's not there. Today's guest on the cash flow show is a lady who has made branding design and design related. Were into a successful long running business. If you'd like to know more about today's guest join us right after the intro. Hello and welcome. I'm Clayton and coke and I'm also the host for the cash flow. Show the radio show this disguised in the shape of a podcast but with so much. Every week you'll be interviewing someone inspiring from the business world and finding out how they're starting in business their trials and tribulations were and how they intend to grow their business in the future we will also be finding out about what they doing this time as well as them to Kabul a film and the favorite single or album and to share their reasons for doing so so why not join the cash flow show. It's not just a radio show. It's a whole new way of doing business. Hello and welcome to episode fifteen of the cash flow show with our guest. Julie Clark off off Judy Clarke designed. Thank you very much Clayton. Yes that's correct. Excellent thank you were. There should be a disclaimer amongst this episode. There will be lots of laughing and I will be the culprit and the main reason is I've known Julie for number of years too many years to we were talking before in the pre show discussion. About how how long we've known each other and how much business have changed in that time and well what can I say. It's been a considerable time since we've known each other but versing I want to do is is to get people I know you and it's clear that I know you but they don't know you tell them who is Julie Clark and Jeannie clock design. What do you do and what are you about well? I'm all about bright ideas design and branding my passion east to educate and help entrepreneurs make sure they stand out from the crowd so my background is advertising so for twenty years I was working on big brand. You'll have heard of light away. Sainsbury's Timberland Pizza Hut. I take the strategic nick creative expertise to supporting small businesses and startups excellent next question rebound. No obviously it's interesting when people find themselves in a position where they're in a big brand situation than they formed their business as I've been in business now for nearly eighteen years and I'm going to make an assumption because when I first met you you're on the scene at the same time so would I assume that you this this is your first business and it's also a situation where this was the business that you were working on at the time when I first met you. That's right yes I've been in business on my own. And since two thousand and one. So yes we were on the networking seen together for here. We are today exactly. There's not many people that have survived today. And that's what we discussed earlier and I think what I want to know as a person because I've met you over many many occasions but I know a bit about what you do but sometimes when you meet people you don't necessarily get the opportunity to get an in-depth chat so the whole point for me is until introduce you to a whole new set of listeners and our new fans is to find out before you started in the corporate world. How did you come to the idea idea of getting into design? Did you use to draw at school. What happened or did they? My favorite lessons are for opals. This 'cause I'm that old. I did art and pottery and then did an art a level. This was all before the Internet so I had to find out about art colleges. She's via the post visit. But I had very supportive teachers who I'm still in contact with today. We still exchange Christmas cards. Wow how from the one thousand nine hundred seventy remember that. So I went to Leicester Polytechnic in those days. You could do a one year foundation course which was to try everything to do with our new artie and talented. But not how that could shape my career so I spent a year trying everything so sculpture. Fashion photography design everything that you could possibly try out to decide where my forte was an turned out to be designed and appetizing. So it had fantastic shooters who had lots of links in the business. So ooh instance. In College holidays. I was working as an intern at Sergeant SARCI. People might have heard of so little small agency so that set me off and then the minute I graduated came down to London with carrying my portfolio round. But it took seventy interviews to get my first job but I knew that's what I wanted to do so it was competitive than it's even more competitive now so you then decide side you. You're you're at school. You've got the backing and support of shooters and you then decide to then come to London and your interning at such and such eh or good stuff so you get your first job. Yep Is it what you expect it to be and more. It was fantastic. It was because the thing is. You don't realized you learn once you get that first job you're really a novice you'll really a hindrance to business but you know they train you are a new learn on the job and what do you think it was was different from your your fantasy ideal of what it was like in terms of that you have to have an idea of advertising. I mean the Sergeants Archie Eighty two days at the end of the doubts when people started to really recognizing advertising as a craft yet absolutely and it was in the news. Susan people sort of you know suddenly wanted to be in advertising. You know it was always very lucky. I was there when they were big budgets. Were with amazing photographers including David Bailey. Norman Parkinson so I just had a fantastic grounding for what I do today because because for me. What's exciting is? The approach to big brands is the same. If you're an entrepreneur starter. It's still the same approach to thinking about now. WHO's your target market? What what is the goal of the marketing or advertising design? You know who you're talking to. And that is all the same whether your all in a Nike Apple or very small business so you then find yourself in a position your in this agency. You're getting this experience. What are the things things that stood out for you during that time? Just be the pace of things you know. Sometimes you have to turn things around very quickly. You'd be the late night all night but just the buzz of cracking a creative brief you get a feeling in your stomach when you when you cracked that briefing refund. You've come up with a good idea as brilliant feeling and do you feel that because you are in a position to work on such big accounts because it seemed to me and this is an observe. I've never worked in advertising a had much to do with it as apart from being a consumer of some sort didn't it seemed the intensity of advertising. It's very much of a cutthroat business. Oh very much so very much so and you had to the on the top of your game because they always knew briefs coming in to the creative department on people would literally fight over them because they were fantastic clients. go fantastic braves but you probably will only proud of maybe two or three things you did in the whole year for various reasons just got caught clients unsworth as brave as you were hoping so your portfolio. Probably only two or three things in for every year that you worked and I worked for twenty years so in in terms of what you did. You're in a position where we see. People are fighting over these quality things and I always what she's American dramas and somebody's working for Johnson and Johnson and Johnson. And it's like we've lost our client. We've lost that. Brief and people are going to meltdown. Was it really like that. It was like that. And if you lost a big client you knew that they would be redundancies and they would happen almost straightaway. Pack your bags and you'd be off. Yeah it was. It was cruel but exciting. It reminds talk Ab- I think that we will have an image of advertise a lot of that being formulated by things like madman. I mean really driven a lot of it. The things like you hear about you know goofy book about advertising sizing and about dumber. Ogilvie it. Is David Ogilvy. Yeah and that approach to advertising where certain things in terms of copy opean who. You're trying to reach those skills. Really effectively were very transferable skills for you at well. I use them every day now and there's also so in other personal. I'd like to mention from that time. WHO still around? Now Dave Trott he writes blogs and fantastic books One of them is predatory credit tree thinking and I urge you to have a look at them because they are so perceptive about the psychology of buyer behavior and people's behavior. Oh Yeh Gabby and as an aside I remember watching a TV program and it was it was about creating foam. Oh and for those. That don't know foam is an acronym Kareem meaning the fear of missing out. So if for example your friends going to a nightclub in your stock now with a cold and you nose snotty nose and and paper tissues everywhere and you'll think yourself I'd like to be out there I'd like to dip. You can't see you've got that fear of missing out or something similar to that. And they had a restaurant scene sets up and they told people that own the one lobster left and even people who didn't bloody income allergic to love. They wanted it so bad lady she was like she coming for something else. And I'm thinking Guilford and you don't even need only be ridiculous for me to say that's not what she wanted. That's not what she did. But as soon as it came down to the last one will think about black Friday you and those fights in the in the supermarkets and things over big big tallies it gets gets very violent. Yeah that is you know. Foam of the is. Yeah I suppose and you were able to see how consumer behavior could be manipulated. Well the thing about running a business you've got to put yourself in the shoes of your customers whether that's a product or a service so that that's the thing you must do. I've had clients come to me saying all. Can you design your logo and a business card starting up a business my favorite colors pink and I like this particular to Italy. typeface is the wrong approach. They're not thinking thinking about were actually designing for the dream client for the target market. And that's that's what you've got to do. Even if you would not be a consumer for for that prototype service you've got to think about. What do they like? What do they drive? What do they read? What do they watch got to get under the skin them? And then that will determine I and how you approach that and what kind of tone of stars of colors and typography and imagery is going to be appropriate for them is interesting thing because when we're living in a world and we're living in a situation where lots of people are able to start. Businesses and businesses are very easy to even from when we started businesses businesses. It's so much easier now and I refer to it very often. You can wake up in the morning. Still being your pajamas and by lunchtime. You've got yourself a business or website right. Yeah that number everything and your Europe and running your own to the races and you just about brushed. Ut Fan and had you cereal. It's it's an amazing concept but I do think that a lot of people come to business income to design because even just simple things that you learn I read i. I love design. I love it. I don't necessarily understand it. I'm not an expert in it. I love design or design and now look at things that have been designed they just look at it and go. Wow My love design and I love the way things are designed to look at a way where it's a blueprint or wherever it's a schematic diagram. Whatever is anything that's been designed and I love to look at the idea in the thought behind it and sometimes I think we in business we've very much like the idea of? We think that we can be a designer it. Yeah that that's the problem. It looks deceptively simple but the thing is there's lots successful design their strategy behind it. It's not just I'll turn on the computer and are to this typeface. Make a color at this image from clip and I've got a logo. Yes yeah so you see a lot of it. I mean even just the basic ones like using Comic Sans as if you've ever heard of Comic Sans if you haven't look it up and Comic Sans. John's is one of the most revolt fonts. In the history of fronting hunting in the history of funding a Comic Sans or comic comic song as infringe but Comic Sans is seen as a very much. That if you're using that Europe complete not the joke absolutely yet. You're not you're not allowed to use saying that there was a charity for designers where you could only use Comic sans so that was the challenge. You had to create a poster using Comic Sans but things like that Ms Serif and and some serious. I'm impressed you know that I've done my homework. I do. I love design and I will sit there when you know of articles. Come up on the Internet about design and trying to fit into debt recovery and whatever and it it just means. That bucks won't pay the reason for that. I'll have to design you the pay but things like that even Komo Serif and saucer if you explain it because you could do so Sarah Funds came first with the the printing all firstly bibles and then books and it usually has little tales or marks on the ends of if the strokes of the letters times new Roman times new Roman was designed for the Times new newspaper and it is most legible to read in print. Then they're wars wars. If you think about Scandinavian design very clean then you get censor phones which don't have the little bits on the ends of the letters the much plainer. And so it samples thought would be Ariel Madonna Gilson's and Dan. They are much more suitable in our digital world. Much more legible. onscreen right Okay that makes sense. I UH forgotten cutner trade at the question. I think what we were talking about. Is that the way that people perceive designing and the ability that anybody can design and not knowing the fact is knowing not to use comic song say is is rule number one and number two that the power of you know if you you want to appear more authoritative than Acerra form can be more helpful with only that not work well it would have certain Gravitas so it would be suitable if say you were a solicitor or a business coach or maybe an accountant. But you might want to look forward thinking not an ordinary accounting. So maybe you do the opposite. If they're everybody's digging you want to send out so you would maybe have a very modern sensor answer on and look different and so that perception by whoever was looking that would comes through. So we've all this knowledge you then decide at some stage. You want to become an entrepreneur. Did you fall into that or did you just wake up one morning and Dagenham it. I'm going to become it kind of happened. Slowly by default. My copywriter partner and I were made redundant which happens a lot in advertising and it just suited us at that time to be a bit more flexible expo. We had other things going on in our lives. So we started freelancing 'cause we have lots of contacts in the business and from the business grew and I've never looked back so it's really a situation where if fell into your lap but you were really quite radiant up for the challenge. It's as I say it. It was the point in my life or or a need to be have a bit more flexibility. So that's the joy of an entrepreneur of thinking about what I can plan my day. You know maybe on doing things in the day right but I work at night. Whatever suits you have a friend of mine? He plans his a world around tennis. Do you know who you orme. But he plans his cigarette. which is absolutely fantastic? Because you know when the tennis season is on now he. He normally works in antiques and as a consequence of that that's his specialty but newly when the antique season's gone choir via attorney season. Kicks Ass Lucky. He's incredibly fortunate in that respect but all of us at the same time he gets to do something that he loves. Yeah which is really important. I mean you then decide that you're going to make that leap What's been your scariest time as an entrepreneur because remember you're going from working in some pre high flying yes yes? The cash was spinning then L. O.. The cash for Spinning Manian. There was big budgets money flying everywhere. So you've got ought to stage now where you think I'm going to go solar and then what happens. Then what see what happens. It didn't go smoothly all of course it's not not flying solo. It is quite scary but exhilarating to discovered networking so that that was the do. Aw Own okay. I've got to get some clients so auto at exhausted model black book of contacts and people in the agencies who were giving me freelance work. I thought I've got to diversify here and find some clients of my own. So that's what I started networking. And what was your first experience of networking. Do you remember. I don't remember mine. I don't eat always seems to have been something that I've done and even when I say to people who how do you find your clients in no. How'd you find people that you work with and not say network and they look shocked right and to me I just? I just couldn't think of it any other way. I think you need to build would relationships with people easy to well equally as you know. Networking isn't a quick thing. You'RE NOT GONNA go along to an event and come away with. Were you making those first. I four as those connections that you then follow up with you know a coffee or a beer or wine or seeing what each other is all about and how you can help each other do you. You remember the events at Business Link that tell you Salah catering amazing amazing for twenty five eighty. I used to come there hammered. It was eight was absolutely amazing. Absolutely absolutely amazing. That was that was that was the pinnacle of networking for me. It seems crazy. That business link is no more. When there's more entrepreneurs combined canova unequally prime remember prime over-fifties though I don't remember prime prime was charity? And I think Prince Charles was the patron and and it was auditor with promoting entrepreneurs fifty and above is no more crazy absolute madness because now that massive massive market definitely massive market. I I find it. Very strange. Not Did always find it very strange terms of them getting rid of Business Lincoln for those. That don't know business link was an organization. Shen I think government publicly funded that was aimed at basically am helping entrepreneurs and growing new businesses and to a certain extent. I think thank feel. It was quite successful. I met a lot of people that got a lot of benefit from business. Made it because you could have one to one with a sort of adviser mental so it wasn't just the events. It was much more support than that. I think they devolved a lot of it into lots of smaller things and I think they gave a lot of that stuff. Through to local authority. See I know in Lucian. They've got the deck program. Yeah E. K. Program and and so on and so forth where they work with Goldsmiths Lucian Council and some other people people as well but I think for me I think business link had that very central point was very much run out of the mayor's Office for one or the maze of his thin. Yeah and I think that for a lot of people. It was a very very good way of actually seeing of businesses with doing the quality of the events were really good but it then just they just saw pull that away and I think what they wanted to create was that they wanted established businesses to mental for free. That's not gonNA work now. It's not going to work in any any shape or form and that's what I find it. I do remember those days because networking Nen seem to be. There were a lot of events. No I actually think there are more events now. Aw definitely the quality of the events to me is gone down. It's different some much smaller. Aren't they that there's quite a few ladies only ones which are just meeting over coffee but for some people it's it's baby steps into business because they failed on by either an investment into something where you know? It's a big fee and a commitment every week or every month so this is just meeting other ladies for coffee and supporting each other in business business and I think that works. I do think that to a certain extent a lot of membership networking events. I think they can work. If you've got a certain if you I want to make that commitment and you like the surroundings in the former but I would say suggest to people if you don't like the surroundings in the format don't do it. It's not really what you what you want to do do. Do you feel comfortable. Doing as opposed to a lot of people feel very daunted by. I think you should do some form of networking definitely. Don't home and then think she's a for my. I'm the meeting anybody happens. I mean so. We always took that step in terms of networking networking in terms of your business. You've had the scary times. Yeah what has been your most proudest moment business. Well a recent one was. I'm quite active on twitter in my twitter handle is at Jili underscore pepper. And I don't know whether you know but Jacqueline Gold entrepreneur the ladies on slightly and Sumus yet so she is very supportive of women in business and every week she runs a twitter competition author. Hashtag while W W and she picks three women in business to showcase and shout out and she's got sixty thousand followers and about a month ago. I was one of only pushing picked very proud of that so that that's up to my followers tastes. I said I mean I always talk about Jacqueline God. I find quite interesting and I love that movie that she made. We've and some and that mass destr- now those who may not know and summers from back in the day ruined it had a certain type of reputation and Whoa loved that she did. Is that purchase of nickel box. That was a smart move because when she purchased knickebocker or they pitched nick books nickel nickel box so in the Nicosia affront and put all the apparatus put merchandise. That's cool but at the back and then create an dumping that right in the middle of every High Street and shopping center. That was a massive stroke. Because when you went into the front there was nothing. Hey that somebody could be considered offensive. Exactly exactly. That was brilliant. And Show you that we've mergers and acquisitions how powerful you can make your brand and basically let it fill a market and let it be able to occupy market that you didn't initially think of absolutely so we're back to buy a psychology ecology again. Don't like most definitely because that was brilliant because the way that way but to just transport and some people are there it was it was no big thing whereas thirty four years ago. She had had that problem. That people are going to look at this and they're not gonna go anywhere near this so it was quite a master stroke in that respect. So how how did you feel being in a position being picked out. Oh what I've been doing this competition for a wall and threw throw it to be picked out because as I said. She's very supportive other women in business and I like the fact that you know. She still celebrates being a woman. It doesn't mean you have to be aggressive or change into a the man to do well in business. Oh Yeah I think that's a thing that people really underestimate I think as a man in business and don't know omen omen get treated equally in business put as a side bar the reality of it is is that as a woman. I think that sometimes when women fail now is when women and try to act like men. I think it doesn't work it doesn't work. Just be yourself play to your strengths. Trump's plan to what you do at the end of the day the that what you need to do is just to be yourself and people. If you've got something a product to a service that makes sense then you will. You will encourage people to buy from you if you and that's what I think. I think a lot of people make sense. That have got to going to room and I've got to be as aggressive if this guy and I'm like wait a minute you picked the wrong guy interested in just want to know where your product to your services. Good yeah a Kanaya. I afford it be. Do I need it and if we can deal with that then obviously we've got conversation if we're still cool but the reality of it is is that at the end of the I may be able to pass. You want to somebody or refer you to somebody who does want to buy and may be able to help you because the problem is that as you and I know we are actually in business sneeze in London in a very very small network really. It's beacon. It's small in the same way because a lot of people know people with less than three degrees of separation. Yeah Yeah we'll look at what happens happens at networking events so people not circuit of course. Yeah and that's what I've been to some events wind up to Manchester because I I'm very spontaneous. It's like that's right. Let me see what the Maine coons doing. ooh Yes it's got to. It's the Manchester Network and that was good. It's not to say it's a slightly different vibe from the edicts yet. And that's good because that's what you want to see you want to see the difference. Sheffield that's got got slightly different vibrant today. I want to go more Bristol. south-west worlds that kind of thing just to see other people do because that's a good tip because when you then meet people from those areas you then open up your cell phone linked in to other people in those areas wanting to contact you. So it's always helpful in that respect as well and I always say networking as in a way briefing my salesforce if I can communicate to somebody what I do and I understand it. Then they art began going to become my ambassador. They'll hopefully refer me to people that might want my services. Of course that's the whole point. I think a lot of people don't understand and that the the person that you meet is not always the person that by it certainly it's only but they know four five six hundred people who might need your services or puts. I mean in terms of that. Do you think that being around the longtime is a major factor in your success. I think so because consistency builds brands. So in a way I'm the embodiment of that with my my own brand all of you cannot be complacent. You can't just think I've been to that. I won't go again this year. You you've got to be seen by people. You start nudge of all their stood turnaround. They're still in business. Of course I mean the thing is is that what I o.. S. Eight people. Is that no matter. What you're doing people are always watching you? You and you'd be surprised at how many people see your posts. Maybe they won't comment because there are many people you know I have X.. Amount of people connected not to me linked tin and I post quite regularly. But I'm sure that most people see is that guy again call and they may not make a comment they may not may do a like but that message goes through gets. You're on their radar. Exactly yeah I think that's really important in order to build that relationship and it's I think people people underestimate the underestimated and as opposed to a certain extent. You Building Your Business and building brands. Does it. Make you aware of how you represent your brand. Since you're so sold tasked with helping office definitely and as you know I always try and where either something very bright reut awesome very distinctive jewelry and people remember that even men because many designers were black and gray on during the opposite. I always wear something bright and that is an embodiment of my bright ideas design and branding double meaning of what that is and that is what I find. Fascinating is Anna. Wintour trustees like crap what okay sitting. She's the editor of American. Exactly I don't get I'm sorry I know you know we've got like style. No no no I can't I can't wisdom style well. She always dresses in very expensive things but doesn't always by style. Does that war. I don't think so I'm I am you know probably GonNa get shut down for that. No no I just. Don't I look and I feel I could eat a uniform. The same stuff stuff. All over and over again noticed how tall. He's color us. It really tight around his neck especially my age it. It was always really kind of weird thinking your fashion guy thinking okay. Bye supposed to a certain extent. If you're not concentrate on your own fashion I suppose then you can do the job that you're supposed was to designing women so but yeah he had a uniform so he blended in the background ish. His cat go. War More Jackie's Cowan's tacoma count so off elected the holy millions rich anyway speaking of riches and this is probably a good site for us take a break and have a word from our sponsor and we'll be right back right after that break and continue our conversation with Julie Clark Bad. Debtors can can rob you of your time and money. They can destroy your whole business within weeks. Archaic Debt Collection Agencies and expensive legal fees will drain your cash flow. Hello but in one day the PR business debt. Prevention course will teach you how to create late payment management procedures invoice for immediate settlement and Iran. Existing debt you'll study real life examples to drag your business out of the red visit. Www Dot P. R. M. S. Ltd D. DOT CO DOT UK or. Call Zero two zero three eight six five seven one three eight to register now before a bad debtor's make your business another failed statistic. Hello and welcome back to the cash flow show with our guest today. Julie clock of Julie Club design. Zayn chilly it's that time of the podcast where we actually start asking questions and we get get deep we we do get personal upfront. Especially after the end. Some incidents here we are so the questions are as What what is your favorite film and Y right well Clayton? My favorite film is one called dead. Men Don't wear plaid. Senate Senate starring Steve Martin and Rachel Ward. It's a spoof on the nineteen forties film noir. gumshoe films why I love it. It's very very clever in that it is yes. It's filming with those two characters but also intercut with lots of famous films that you'll have known like hitchcock's and whatever so the whole story is a patchwork of them reacting to scenes from existing films and that then got spoofed even more by an ad which was for a logger and I'm trying trying to remember which one sugar turns to alcohol. That's good it wasn't Heineken. Pills no wholesome pill wholesome polston pills yet. The whole system pills pills Griffiths Jones. That's right. Yeah then he got spoofed again now with trump you all. There was a series. I think he was in the early ninety s dream. I've never seen American series where what would happen. Is that this guy and I don iffy worked in advertising using or something similar to that but what every time he would react to a particular scene. ooh It would cut to a black and white movie and very much in the dead. Men Don't wear plate situation. Yeah so it was very much a lot. People don't remember that series called dream on so if you try hi is looking that up on youtube find some episodes of that but yes so that was the continuation so I remember the holsten pills. Big Big adver but yeah dream on Jalen complete series in relation to that so something would happen and then we'll be immediately cut at it straight into some film the Situational some black and white. Okay so that's an excellent choice. I do know so moving forward. What is your favorite book and right favorite book? One of my favorite authors is John Irving and my favorite book of his is called a prayer for Owen meany. I don't know if you won. And what I like about him is he has such an array fantastic characters but owing meany shows such fortitude and resilience. That's why I liked that book. Cool excellent and I always find. What is your favorite business book if you have one well? I'm going back to somebody I mentioned earlier. Dave Dave charts books so predatory thinking I I can't remember the other day so. Hr All about psychology and insight into consumer behavior. And what is your favorite the album stroke single and y download them say for the million new crew so my favorite Single is smooth. which is a collaboration with Carlos? Santana and Rob Thomas do do like Carlos Carlos Santana Guitar but again. It's back to the interesting collaboration of two things you wouldn't necessarily have put together and just that song I I can play day still goose chicken skin whenever I play it and I always want to dance when that comes on to grow up on the dance floor. It's a great great song is a great song. Sometimes people always be unsure what to choose and I do a whole show of what I would choose because it would just go on. No no no no no no no no poor people to death but I mean that is a good choice I do like that. It's a great record. I think the guy. He's in the lead singer of matchbox twenty. I think he's or something opening night. That can't remember his name. But Thomas Your yes. You think. He's the nothing that was weighted. Collaboration came about out. But I will call us Antonio is to say yeah so distinct his guitar sound so distinctive laying people people say oh gee print sounds like Jimi Hendrix. No he doesn't actually sounds like color Santana. That's Prince Eitel. People didn't know that software share that with the questions that we ask and our comeback to. Let's have a bonus a Louis Yo and we can now. I wrote this down while we were having a conversation though earlier and I wanted to ask. What's your favorite advert spending your timing advertised? That would leave you to be exposed to a lot of adverts in itself so do you have any particular favor adverts. I do the one I still really remember. Wouldn't be allowed now because it's advertising cigars. The hamlet series on especially a the one in the photo booth. I just love love love. That is so simple yet so funny. Okay your. What's your favorite logo? My favorite logo. Wow that's a very leading question. I would have to say the logo. Poppy admire the most. It's because now you don't even see the words it's just the swoosh so that is the ultimate in simplicity and you don't even have to see all of this wish to know that that's the logo true very true. I mean the fact is mastercard trying to do the intersecting circles. Yeah they're trying to do that Eh. Trying to do away with the actual word MasterCard. Yeah so effectively. Just be two circles on on their own. That is very true. But have you heard of mogos. Komo goes no enlighten me. Oh Man on the street. I know what's going on. A MOGO is a musical who logo. That's that's the thing that's the news. That's the new thing the musical logo I will need to look into that. So for example. If you've been to the cinema recently you you're not that's it's the sound that you hear bef- The dolby THX. Beyond start. They would consider that to be a MOGO because I'll be associated with that. Yeah and you can. For example you know you ever classic ones like a murder Nokia ringtone. That would could be considered a Mogo as well but you know a musical thing that certainly equates to your physical picture type logo right. See you learn something every day. I'm quite interesting in terms of adverts have adverts adverts at the fascinating and I once remember being on holiday and seeing this ad for again and again and it was Robert Carlyle in a Johnnie Walker adver and he was way out in the distance and he starts talking Andy starts talking and starts talking gives you literally the history of Johnny Walker as he comes close and that advert is mesmerized. Me Fait Young's number. One is ability to remember oil event number one number two also it was just a very simple coughing and the power that he has and it reminds me of those old adverts and I think this is one of the old madman type of adverts have you ever seen the one with the the Rolls Royce the advert for the Rolls Royce. A printout. Yeah the loudest noise is the ticking of the clock classic. Yeah so you know you sit down and you think to yourself. How can I make something like that? or how can I inspire somebody to do something like that for my brand and a we're talking about Jillian talking about an old printed was probably in the fifties sixties. Yeah I wouldn't like to say what decade is but. Yeah I'M GONNA put it down to fifties between fifties and sixties and this print ad was basically an advert for Rolls Royce. The head of the copy or the headline headline was effectively. The the the loudest noise is the ticking of the clock reserves an inbuilt clock into the dashboard. Exactly and I think what it was trying to say was that this car ran so smoothly. Yeah it was so smooth. It was so quiet. Even the ticking of the clock was louder than the sound of the engine and it was just gliding fighting even there and it was just amazing and I. I know what people say. He's just a print ad was what it was able to vote in. Just one sentence but it took a brave client and an agency to almost educate the client about just to one idea in it. Yeah that's trouble. A lot of people try and crime everything in to the to the design on Business Card or or their ads when it should only be one idea ear for each execution. I think the problem that you have and being a consumer stroke client in that respect is that we all want to be all singing or dancing announcing remember when we start off in our business we start off and people say oh so among your type of client and what's the type of client you're looking for and U-TURN say everybody's my client is and you get nobody you do get nobody coming to US years. Here's to pin down. Who are clients? Were it took years but when it happen happen instantly one of the reasons for it was just literally looking all the people that we've man all the people that we wanted to work with and continue to work with and put in those people in a demographic and it was just overnight. It was okay. These are the people that we serve. These are the people that we work with and then marketing to them in language all imagery that they will relate to exactly exactly because you have a a tighter message of most definitely. I think the problem is everybody. I think we all dream that we can be like Amazon. And so everyone coca kind of. Yeah Yeah exactly and the Coca Cola has other brands in terms. Even Walter people if you don't want any of that fizzy stuff and the stuff that give mcleans to you. Don't ever do that experiment. You'd be shocked that to me makes me look at that situation and think to myself a lot of brands start off with really having no focus and people want this idea. Oh we're going to be so big. We're going to sell to everybody and we're going to do this. And the fact is what is your message. What is it that you do and what is it that you're selling because a lot of people look? I don't know what you do. Yeah do you find that we business cards I do I do all you meet people networking and they explain what they do. The new so don't really know. So how could I possibly refer them. Because I'm I've no idea what they're put auto service really is or who they're targeting so I can't listen out. Offer something and that is fascinating because I went to an event at Iot Christmas Institute of Directors and what was funny. I wasn't party to this conversation station but one of my friends. Who was there had a chap talking to and she said to them all? So what is it that you do. Oh well I'm a consultant. She goes. Oh that's scrape a consultant for any industry. Or what would you do. I'm a consultant. And she goes. You know what I console it. And the fact is he wasn't a consultant really found a title and but he didn't have a business to back his title so now he knew what he was doing doing. So the fact is you're a consultant about being a consultant. So she said how can I help you know people get into stuff and they don't have that focus and I think maybe we do you think that if people concentrated may be on their branding I and really focused on that. They would actually get tighter business message. Well this is what I I find when I'm working with a new client as you have a four page questionnaire which sometimes freaks them out of business business cards. What's this butts by guiding them through that they will then have a clear idea on this strategy and who were targeting who their dream client is who they would turn bread and butter client so from Nice that then becomes the creative brief so either no designer Zeina? What is going to be appropriate as to talk faces colors imagery tone of voice so that they get the branding spot-on tone because otherwise it's too vague and it seems counter? Intuitive to be niche. But you need to be nice to start out then you can grow. Want show known in that niche. And that's that's another thing I find. We've business people turn up. Who have got three or four? Different businesses It's not a competition. I've got more businesses that you've got no tell me what the business that you actually do. For God's sake you all it's crazy. I mean you know I remember seeing American and this guy basically turned up a network and it was like it was not a BNI thing and he and this was in. America turned up and he was given that people two free business cards at a time from one person You know he reminds the guy that comes to networking event and doesn't talk to anybody but hands these businesses that everybody and then leaves in a hurry and then you end up. I don't feel that's going to go anywhere. No no that's not going to get results results. And this guy he's got. Oh would you get business. Code on one side. Is there an architect on the other side. They're a taxi. Durham is still suffering day. The air you. How does that Lincoln? They've got one website with all these strange incoherent businesses that are targeting different people. So of course you're not GonNa get people who are happy peak because they go and wire. Why am I looking at this when I wanted that? Exactly it's very hard to define your business messy and I think that for a lot of people that that that difficulty is what drives what a lot of their confusion because they just seem to. They don't seem to have a message about what they want to achieve. It's the idea that people have now they don't I just want to be a millionaire. They want to be a billionaire. They don't just want to have one business. Oh I've got this business and I'm a director this business and I see some people's linked tin and I'm thinking eighteen. Okay you've got one main business. Let me know which business too fun. 'cause I don't know what you do and the fact is I can't help promote you in any shape or form unless I I know that you are the you know the Lady Bug Lady. We were talking about. She got a job and she's got a definition focused a focus. That's the most important thing to me and I think that's what drives a lot of people to absolute confusion and I know said you design business cards. How many people don't use the back of their business card? Yeah good point. Well we're all about giving advice. You get a bit word now not saying. What is your advice to anyone thinking of starting a business first of all think about who you will be selling to? You've got to put yourself in your inner shoes so think about who is going to be buying your product or service. 'cause that's who your aiming your marketing at that's is who you're designing your logo and business cards and stationery to appeal to but the fact is is that you're you're absolutely spot on and I think that's the whole point you know you have to. I think people afraid of issues afraid of nations and also the other thing is you've got to be consistent across every touch point and by every touch point. I mean what they wear when they go networking what the language they use in their emails even how they talk on the phone. Everything is marketing and branding and telling that story. So you need to be consistent across everything. That's a very good point. What you and I we both know Brad Burton here? We do love to get on here. He's what in the personnel to reach out to at some point. What I find fascinating is that I always say this Brad? Brad Burton looks more debt recovery in late payment collection. You see does nicest guy in the world I- pussycat. I'm sure I read in the stories that he tells absolutely hilarious but the fact he's if somebody were to say what job do you do and the fact that he's been able to take his Z.. Meat and retain as personal image and still be successful in the public. Speaking arena goes after. It's true to himself exactly. That's what people found out. I find the backseat hilarious. And the story that he tells about being at home in his wife Rinse waiting for the results from the Jeremy. Become show absolutely Abassi down because it shows you. How procrastination should he business can do for absolutely so? We're coming to devour. I'm here on the cash. I know we took forever but the fact is by the time. It's all edited upper wherever the case maybe people are gonNA look. I'M NOT GONNA listen to these people talk for an hour so we may have to Eddie that bit but it's been fantastic having you on and really do appreciate you taking the time to to to be with us. You've got your business and it's been running successfully successfully for a long long time now. So where can people find you in that we can help maintain your business so tell us if people are looking for you. Where can they find you on social media on the net? Go for it. This is your chance to shine. Thank you Clayton so first of all finally on my website. Www Dot Julie Clark expelled C. L. A. R. K. NO E. DOT COM. I'm also on linked in gene as chilly Clark on twitter. I'm Julie J. W. L. Y.. Underscore pepper P P and on Instagram Chili Chili Pepper. Underscore design looking forward to connecting. With you or exasperating because it is important for us to be able to give back to people who've made the effort effort and time to come along here because I think the people people listening it's something that they think. Oh it just happens. Instantly sometimes is a hell of a lot of negotiation then movement and rejigging of calendars in order for everybody to be here. So it's really appreciate it when that can happen so if we can give something Ving Bank we love to do so so now just one more question before we go. What is the future holding for Julie Clark for the rest of the year going up to among twenty twenty anything exciting that you can talk about all alleged you think you want your business to be? What's interesting Clayton his arm? I'm doing more collaboration. So so people that I'm meeting through networking copywriters marketeers printers web development collaborating with them on projects. Bigger projects that I wouldn't be able to handle a soda opener excellent. I think that's what somebody said in an article the day that collaboration is the new competition addition wise. Were so on that note. Julie Clark of Jili Club design. Thank you ever so much for joining us on the cash flows show really not really appreciate it for taking the time and trump to sit down with us and tell us about your life about your World Nin advertising in designing branding and sharing your wisdom. Thank you very much for doing. So my pleasure Clayton excellent. Well thank you for listening to another episode of the cash flow. Show if you've enjoyed what you've heard today and would I'd like to hear more than please subscribe by your chosen podcasts provider and you will be notified when you episodes are released. If you wish to like comment leave a message subscriber. Follow us on social media. Please do so as we would love to hear from you. If you're listening by anchor you can leave messages and questions Christians on that format so please. Don't be afraid. Don't be shy in order to do so until the next time. Take care from everyone at the cash flow show goodbye
Episode 6: Yvonne Telford
"Hello. And welcome to spending place the podcast whereas speak too busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer celebrities seven in between having my five sons aged sixty months to sixteen years. So I spent a few plates. Myself being a mother can be the most amazing thing. It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I wanted to be a bit Nosey and other people balanced everything. Welcome spinning plates. Good, day to you. My fellow spending plate person, how are you have? You had a good week. Currently out. Very, inconsiderate them trying to record something for my podcast. I'm out walking with Mickey. ROUGHED GRANDMA, for dog walk And The sun is shining. So. Confidence onscreen this week's guest. Is. An. Amazing Woman She's Yvonne Telford and company is cool. Kennedy's health and She primarily is Equating Company beautiful bold. Often. Voluminous Bright stresses often in Nigerian. Prince. They are extroverts and gorgeous and colorful pretty joyful clothing actually. And we believe it the behind it on is a pretty. Gorgeous, colorful joyful person to. Her story. Is One I've been so excited to share with you since I recorded it because. Going to be a bit both hands I'm pretty sure some people listen to this conversation. is going to change their life. Why do I say such a bold thing I to say but What happened to hers and fifty sheep in Time Until her kids were. Two daughters when they were seven and five. She watched something on Oprah Winfrey show which she will share with you and Changed everything and I kind of feel like it might do that for someone he listens today. She. She's console personal wants to interview for spending plates because. She sort of turned around she had. Off To shut her first baby. She didn't really know who she was for a long time. And I think that can happen so easily. You, kind of think how do I go back to the woman I was before had a baby is that the woman I want to be a happy woman then? What do I go from here? So Yeah. It's going to inspire you. I think doses in our twelve and ten. And I went to meet her in her. Clothing warehouse actually surrounded by. folded. Beautiful clothing, which is a nice environment. Four conversation I WANNA say thank you for the messages is had since last week's episode. Lost it. Was Me talking to my mom? And a lot of you. Shared your stories of closest with your mom. The DASA, your stories of grief because. My stepdad died very recently. So spending a Lotta time family at the moment as I often do anyway. But. We'll keeping an eye on each other and I just want to let you know the the stories you show with me have been really really comforting. So you very much. I've tried to respond to many messages that I could. But I am reading Jen every one of them. So thank you very, very much. Anyway. Oh Yeah. Can See the ribbon I'll cut you make. Peace Ducks maybe you know I'm GonNa Bread. Coffee there. All right. Let's have a good I, enjoyed it. So. We saw here in in your warehouse surrounded by billions of beautiful bits of clothing. Thank you for letting me in here today. In the service of where we are and history with still emerging locked down. So we've kept me meter distance. With foreign disinfectant. Clarify. But. We're SORTA merging into a new house. You've been finding everything and you busier than ever think. Yes you know. Really busy even apart from the staff I don't know what happened locked out for me has been good for me personally and has been good for my business. We we are doing modern hundred percent if there's anything like that in cells so it's been nonstop. So for me I think people. is at home discovered the. Brand online. So it's been really busy. It's. For me it's been good and personally it's good for me because I'm an introvert I'm quite introverted. So. Yeah so it's good and I like my kids and the like my husband can love somebody are not like firm death. So for me it's been. It's been good. Yeah. I keep saying in our house as well. We're very lucky to like each other I. think it's a crucial thing. If you suddenly find that they are only faces. You see for a really long time. So the moment when I spoke to you earlier in the week to arrange our dates for today. And this is the first time we've met because like you said, you were fulfilling I think three hundred orders by yourself day. have. You been getting on with that kind of stuff I have no choice was again with. It takes a lot of not get distracted and let people know that. I'm busy. So I don't take phone calls I just just get on with it. And the days my daughter's come here. I get them involved immediately the finish their work I think is quite important for them to get involved to kind of sit down there and expect me to be fulfilling orders and they're sitting there not doing anything. I sort of sometimes bribed them or bully them. Blackmail them. All. You know. So helping me so the good gals and the two. So yeah. Yeah today I got to like maybe two, hundred, two, fifty. We'll be fine. Yeah. No, I have complete faith in. You can see your house because. So where are we at now mid mornings I think round eleven o'clock but you've been up for quite a while I think, yes, every day I have to wake up between four four thirty. To start my day more everything. Behind are you always like that early riser out? Not really just after I, had my kids are made that. Decision that our start my day at a certain time. Just to have my me time. You know as a mom, you just never have your meat time. Now you wake up as a woman and as a mom everything falls on you. Yeah. It never falls on the man you know just the woman. So for me in order for me to have that me time, I made that decision and to look after myself. Yeah I just made that decision waking up early to exercise to read. I don't do a lot of reading nowadays brought to read now to speak to my suppliers in China India and Nigeria. To speak to them that time before I come to work. So when you up half for what time do you actually start work? When do you normally I? Come here I get here for nine fifteen. Already been up quite well by yeah. So nine, fifteen, the posts, my royal mill brings returns here. So, nine, fifteen, the hair which for me. The DHL man get here at nine fifteen. By nine, fifty, whatever I'm doing I have to be here. So. That's When I start work here. Yeah. I mean I'm fascinated by. Getting up really early actually because I think. The idea that space and that time to yourself is really precious and I think I read that you said that when When you guys with little if they'd wake up during that time, you'll your time is passed them back to the dining room and really need this. So when I noticed that, when are we coping them very early, which is meant to be my time. I'm sacrificing sleep just to have my time. When my daughters were quite young when the week product talk. A made to really clear to them. When you wake up, please don't come looking for me. Go on look for your father and when they come to me, I just send them back to their father You know I wanted them to know that is my time after thing. Then, you can come to an op to now the still do that. They wouldn't come to me though go to the far now that they're older, don't pick up a book alliance. OFA. Just say Good Morning Lie on the Sofa until the theme bought. And Yeah but Wendy lethal now wouldn't dare come to me. I think that's really smart because I think. One thing that lockdown into sort of really magnify was wherever family dynamic you have and I think if. In your home, your like probably what most women very accessible to your children are all times and work where you go to get the time away from them or anything else you might do going to your coffee whatever space you find in the day if you don't have that as an intrinsic part of your home life wants everything else is shot and taken away there's no way to suddenly instill that I agree for me I think as my daughters are getting older. They are beginning to understand I. think because of all is seen me give myself time The beginning to understand that there. Time, they're not just come to me. Yep. They'll go to their father like now schoolwork that go to their father when they need something Guti their father because I've explained it to them that eight years of my life. was given to them. Nothing else interpreted that eight years. So now I've started my business, they need to respect the fact and I helped her father's. Career grew at the same time because I was just a one at home. No help just me and the girls look after I was looking after them he will still going to work and his career was. was growing while mine took a standstill. Yeah. So for me right now, there's no compromise. There's a problem. Please go to your father accepts you know is maybe something you can't discuss with your father like uperior something. Yeah. Then come to me. Or you need new clothes come to me something that a woman who came for every other thing. Yeah. Go go go to your father should be part of it is well, yeah well, I. Don't think. So to unpick there because you mentioned about the eight years that you gave to them. and. So that was eight years when you raising goes on, you didn't work and you weren't doing anything else. So the focusing up before I am and everything that was not part of those that time was that the eight the wake up four am actually started when my daughter was about one. Okay. I was I was becoming something happens when you become a. Child my first daughter something happens when you become a mom, you start to question the lot of things you go through this period where yes, you have a baby, but you're not really fulfilled for me. I was not really fulfilled as. I guess because my role sort of changed from a career woman. Yeah. And that's what they're pushing prams I couldn't drive then. Every I was going to have this baby that just took over everything. Thankfully for me that was when I started working towards. Discovering myself poised Vaughn because my career if you notice when you have a career, you'd never step back to sort of question is a main to be doing in a way. You just do it served me. Being able lucky enough to be able to stay home. gave me that time to sort of think what do I wanted to who am I? What is my poppers because wall have purpose? Went as as you're alive, you burn into this world, you have a purpose so for me. At that particular time. When she was one I was very unhappy and had to step back to find out why I was unhappy and that's when I started to one the four air waking. Up To find time for myself and to give me head space to question a lot of things. So it was that process that got me here. where I am right now yeah. No, I mean I completely understand I was quite shocked. I think my first baby to find how. homogenising along the parental experience was I felt like I I again I didn't know who I was either Ifo I'd find myself I. Y. But it's always for me crystallized in in places like soft plays where you're sat there anything I don't only reason I'm here is to supervise my small person going in and at the balls and down teams. I feel completely like a black person I could be anybody I've brought nothing of me in here. I'm just that person's supervisor war in here. It's noisy and I can't really do anything else to me that it's always the place I think of where I just feel like. Is, not. Even an interpretation of being a parent is you're just as Yeah just existed you just six six. You're not even existed for yourself exists for that child. Yeah exactly. So you sort of lose parts of view. You do even know I guess most of US actually go into being parents without knowing who we are. Yes. Yes we go into it and I think motherhood is a fantastic thing. Because if we tap into it properly, it brings out. If was not discovered who we are before we way into it motherhood sort of. Brings out in the in US and some of us have the gods. Yes. To Step into that lane of war. We are all we just go back to the old fade and it becomes worse because now you've got somebody else taking care of and you live in the life that you're not that doesn't fulfill you exactly and then you can get things that resentment. Lies there for a really long time and exactly solidifies and you don't. Even. Know what that is chipping away with. That when you people do you think What are you GonNa do when your kids leave home it's important to have something that zero run. Well, it doesn't have to be anything big dramatic. It can be tending your garden nor the friendships you keep more anything precious. But of definitely think. That'd be lots of people that really resonates with the idea of having a child and thinking. I don't really know exactly who I am and suddenly this small person in front of you sorts of refractory everything that nine is such a split into the color spectrum. You think I don't even really know which part of me is the I should be. Exaggerating here, leading the way and. It definitely is time for. Love serve affliction if you have the opportunities and things which also don't necessarily feel the sleep deprivation everything that comes along with the beginning. I mean back in in March when I started. Together a list of people to talk to you this podcast is spending played. You're always on my list because I'm so inspired by what you've done with your with your business and this is before I even actually knew that you used to be. It was a is a risk analysis risk analyst. Very analyst. Okay. So that's very different well to the completely different completely free that that was something I fell into I came into in. England nineteen nine, hundred, ninety, six, and the first job I did leave. You want to know the first job I did I was a care assistant for one day. Okay. I never went back. I did not even resigned. I can remember going for the interview and in Nigeria you don't look at a remember going for the interview and the the The lady I think was the lady interview. Me Say you're not looking at me why are you lying? Because in Nigeria, you don't look at people's you don't look into people's eyes is considered rude. So we have that culture. Of looking into people's eyes. So and it's a moment for an interview you know. Used to happen but going back, I forgot to the question you asked me I was just talking about how different world was when you were doing your. Thing is completely different in every job of don is completely different. Yeah. Home what I've done now but one thing that is something that links all jobs together. Is the making mistakes. You know it's the hard work There's so many things are sort of it's not. I walked in Harrods I worked in. A working a fashion shop. So everything that I've done as actually brought me here because of taking bits and pieces of everything I've learned From my previous job and brought it here. So for me, it's not nothing as a mistake. Everything that I've done as actually taught me a skill that has brought me here. Yeah. So in formed the end, result the end result. So I know how to deal with customers I, know how to Speak to people I know how to so many things that I've in my previous jobs yeah. So bought yes that world was completely different from this for more doing now I did actually read something recently I don't know if you'd agree with this saying that they think that small businesses actually as a result of lockdown and how the economies a change I think actually that's the place really thrive because it has got that connection with people because some of big businesses don't know how to read how people are really feeling this. That ability to be? Really. Reactive to what's going on and how consumers a feeling and all that really matters right now more than ever. Yes he does I'll tell you like I'm not want to send out newsletters with my business. I just don't have the time. I don't want to bomb bad people email. So I've not seen a newsletter in the last I think two and a half months. Newsletter that Saint last was just trying out. The people that subscribe to the women in my community I don't ever see them as customers anymore I see them as. A community I sent an email to them just to find out how are you guys you know? Are you keeping well and I explained to them what we're doing how we are supporting our suppliers because most big brands at canceled? Their orders for me. I just couldn't do that because I have a personal relationship. With my suppliers I know their wives I, know the kids and I just thought how can I support them you know so I couldn't do that to them. That's very unique. Isn't that to have that Duchesneau the chain in that way I think because when you speak to people every day he says to build our relationship where you know you know. You sort of know what's going on with them. What's going on with your family at a well and throughout the lockdown I was calling them like maybe twice a week if I don't hear from them. I. Mean They are like part of my family because they've helped my business grow as well. Yeah. So I call them and this is something that I think the big brands don't do nice like a business kind of relationship I must say I have like a personal relationship with mine suppliers and with some of my customers now, all of them because now it's a big business that I wouldn't know all of them but the ones I've been there from. When I started I, know my story. Yeah Yeah. So the ally so for me I think this is the best place to be a small brand. During lockdown yeah. Well, actually it's funny because I'm one of the people on your on your email list. So I get you. Know, what's funny is when I received the emails I always forget I that they are from come from business because you have this time, it was always very very. personable and conversational, and he'll always go. Black, sorry I had to interrupt icon I like glossier. Honestly I'm back woman. Doesn't brainers when I blush it's horrible. No is true. I'll read them nothing. Thought Oh. Nice thing how many people think you're Chemi and why is it? Can you tell? Oh Okay. So a nine with specter in Niger, and they'll tell you that when you're born your parents gave you a lot of names depending on what is going on in their lives particular time. So for my sister, her name is allure Remya. Wick means God, has stopped me from having tears because my mother before before my mother had her. She had a lot of miscarriages. So. When she finally had a child, she called her that name then the people around her will come and give the child a name as well based on what is going on India lives. Child might have like five six names you know. If somebody called Babatunde doesn't nine thousand, nine, hundred name with means. Father is back. That is because a male has died in that family at that particular time. So anywhere that child goes. It shows you would know dominion as Nigeria. So every German name has a meaning with me I'm the third. Yeah I'm the the third daughter, the third child my mother had six kids. So I am mood way. So it just goes on I gave myself Yvonne. Okay. So it's not one of your. He's not one of my name. I one I got baptized church. Asked us what name would you like and I can remember the first time I heard if on I thought it sounds really chic. Really. French. All Nigeria really fringe and I gave myself Vaughn you know but with the name. Kemis one of my name which means God look after me. Okay so they would like a prayer that my mom after she had the first row. She had the second one I'm sure at the back of a mind Schuster thinking on my lose one of my kids. So she gave me Aliu Academy and when I was looking for the name for my brand I thought what is it is going to stand out. And I just took my husband's name and I've told him separates time going to drop their name pretty soon. So I took my husband's name Telford and Chemical Food I. Remember it just came the easily. Yeah. Do you think it was important to you that it had that makes a Nigerian heritage and your husband naming was is that not even thinking about everything? I've done. I've not thought about everything that I've done I've just gone with my instincts. Yeah. I've I don't I don't think too much about things. So I think I think a lot about my daughter's. Health every other thing I just think, yes it can be taken away at any time. So I don't sort of people as to why your goals, what are your plans for your business I have no plans. I think if I have like plants and plays and gets taken away from me, then I sort of get into like a whole. So I just kind things. So going back to the name I just thought it. Everybody able to say Chemi Telford compared to my first thing, which is Mugabe. Nobody can pronounce their mood. Either you need that Nigerian tweet even Nigeria has come. Pronounce it so. So I had to look for something really easy for people. So luckily is actually worked out. Well, yeah people call me Kimmy. You said some people send me emails and say Chemi. And then we'll come back and I'm really sorry Yvonne. I'm thinking it doesn't really matter. Yeah. I can see the oil as part of your name I suppose but I think it's wonderful. You chose evolving. So fresh Chic and French thing you're right. So you're born and raised in Nigeria. You're one of sixty say yes, your third in the line. Lost Child. Had the third child is a child you know? I, saw. The first to a pundit you know then you just appear the last two are going to bond. So where are you on? You're right. Okay. I'll go home and tell Rai. I've tried to sell at. The heart of the family. Yeah you laughing. I'm laughing US going to work for that. GETS THE ATHOL? Do you think that your upbringing you raised by working parents your did your mom work my mom. It's an all doin'. Were she run? She she was a teacher foot wall. Then she now started this business where she sold alcohol bought in. How that put it wholesale so she was like. She had like a big warehouse where parks and we call we don't call them. Pods, pops English we call them, beer, PALO Away you go in the evening you sit down with your friends outside. So those people will come to her. She was like a main distributor and yes, she did that that was the only thing I saw today is to go to the warehouse sometimes I use after school but my father is a businessman. My father has always been a businessman. But for me I never really learned anything from them. Do. You ever spoken to someone who might want to have a business yourself one day was. On the table as an option, dior is more just about getting a job finding a decent job and it's it's always been because my father wanted to be a lawyer. And he never had the money to go to university. To complete his education. So he wanted to leave his dream through me because he felt I was a talkative. He felt I was the bold one. So he was like Oh and studied law. So. I can remember when I came to England I wanted I went back to study law even though then discover that that was what I wanted to do. To please my father and it was so easy for me to make that decision because it was an easy decision, I want some sort of rock the boat. Yeah. So when back to do what at always known? Say You came to the U. K. because the law to study that was. Set in Nigeria and I dropped everything to come here. But you got to start up again to setup again, which is now my daughter's sort of asked me why did you do that? But I only say this to people. The universe has a way of leading your steps. Now, looking back way to have the audacity to leave my family to come to England to still return aren't I don't even know yeah you know the audacity of having only two hundred and fifty pounds. My father didn't want me to come but my stepmother wanted me to come as a way of getting rid of me. I was like a pain to So the audacity of leaving. The security of my home to come to England that was cold. You know I I don't know. So for me looking back now I think my steps were led I didn't know where it was leading me to yeah but it's not a mistake them here. It's not a mistake speaking to you right now. No well, I think whenever you find yourself especially because you clearly love what you do and you're so passionate about about what I think whenever you look back. You can see these little tiny threads, all kinds of leads where you are now but at the time it, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make any sense ever know why you're doing it. You just doing it yeah and I. Sometimes, he says look at of instinct and maybe Maybe even they've described as an introvert, it doesn't mean you're not capable of doing really bold strong. They're not actually mutually incompatible. You can be a very, very strong person doesn't feel the need to tell everybody about that. Maybe being the third one down as one meant that you could kinda go. Well there's going to be other kids they're going to be doing they can take on the mantle if they want. During. The thing that they're expected to do but I, kind of need to do something it it can be a little bit hidden away as well. It can be a bit more secretive maybe you're not the. First born on a baby or what exactly yeah I mean do is your family still in Nigeria then my so my I have a younger brother who is in America is in New York at the mall. Then I have. Oh okay. Let's set from the first. Romy died two years ago That's the first child. Fain Landry was in Angola. She's moved back to Nigeria. The me then I came. So. Many things have happened. Are Kim died six months after remmy. Sailings. It's it's. For. Me It doesn't really. Yes. Yes. They are not here anymore. But like remedied an amazing life. So she left when she was made to leave leaving our legacy. Understand. Yeah. It'll be disappointed if she didn't achieve anything for herself. Yes. She didn't have kids because kids would. Complication into is going to look after the kids. Yeah. You know the kids like me my mother died when I was young and those no, it was just my dad looking turn us. So I, know what happens when the mother? Of children are not there anymore. The allies of changes because. As much as their father would love them. It's not the same as a mother. So it changes everything it could make the children very determined because of what they will go through and achieved. So Mart or a to make them. The my lead, Assad life now. The temperament of the child depending on what child's. So for me, it's not really. It's. Of everything that's happened to me as happened for me that means I can sort of empathize with people I sort of belay to people's pains, and that actually ties into my brand because I can I can sort of. Pick up on people's pain and sort of talk to them. That's why when I share stories on. INSTAGRAM. which is my main platform. People people get it. So everything that happens good or bad. Can sort of work for you. So going back to my seaplanes, my so shy is in Nigeria. infamies last night in America there for US left now out of the six. Sorry I went on the. If. It's it's fascinating. I think. I think you're right. I think that's maybe what? Is So powerful about what you've done with your brand is the actually it's so clearly not just a brand it's. Kind of I said I've armor is the right word, but there's clearly A spirit and a message alongside what you're hoping the person who ends up wearing things how it's helping them live their life. And the fact that you felt that you. Got To have your first baby and then thought I don't really know what I've been trying to do with myself and who I am and. Obviously tried different hats with different careers and. Had A big upheaval with leaving your home country and moving somewhere new but there's all these time you turning the page. Here's another blank canvas another bank visit in a way mother who kind of picked up another one okay. Right. What do I do here? Where do I start and how do I fill in this this big picture of now in front of me It's I think it's really powerful I think it's really evident as well in in your in your purse I think social media is a funny thing because it can be somewhere that's very, very flippant and and silly but it can also and I think we've seen massively in the last few months be a place in really important point of communication and reaching out to people, and definitely for me my instagram became something that much more significant in keeping in touch with people way more than I ever thought of it before and that's that's really special and all those little every time someone i. Post something where they've shared that bit of their story back to something you might share is like someone smiling you in the street or you know making room for you to sit down somewhere or just not expect to kindness kind exchange with a stranger it's it's it became took the place of that was all of that was gone. So it is really significant I think So when you were having your your first baby do you think that you've already felt like you had ideas of having this business or was it still? Can. Hear from laughter to be honest with you. I was lost. I just loved because might previous I was doing been a credit analyst getting all getting dressed, wearing really fabulous clothes to go to work. Carrying the most expensive handbags because I had no kids there was just my thing that was covered up all my baggage that had to deal with. You know and when they when my daughter was born, I couldn't care when expensive bag to push the prime. Would you put the product on the shoulder and push the problem it? It just doesn't work. You know you come wear high heels. You can't just trainers you know your body changes except for you I don't know was going on with you I. Actually. Just Andy Pandy today I. Think. As a nephew pandy right? Very quaint English like. Books. It's not necessarily a file. For the Chinese you you that's all the questions starts to come in. Okay. I can't stress like this anymore that that is taken away from you. Buy a choice you made because it choice or how the child. Yeah. Yeah No. But when the child is hair child actually take small away from you you can't look the way you used to look your body changes who are Ma. So you start to question for me I just felt. That part of me, the handbags and everything are gone. What I'm going to carry them Agai- these closed on feet anymore I don't know when I'm going to wear them again. So what's next and? something. Really Weird. Happened I remember daytime TV or prior used to be on the TV that. I sat down as watching her my daughter was in she was playing. And there was a woman that came on the show. And the woman said something that hit me. She said when you wake up in the morning, the first thing you need to say to yourself is I love you and I thought that'd be crazy. Why would you want to tell yourself? I love you. And it kept on playing in my mind. I woke up the next morning. That's when I made the decision that's going to you know waking up before him. That very day the next morning I woke up. And I did something odd. So, we live in a townhouse, keep on the top floor. So, I came to the middle floor, which is just a leaving space way into the ground floor, which is like a bathroom with this big mirror. And I stripped naked. I looked in the mirror at the person looking at me. This is really weird. I'm for the first time. I saw somebody had not had never seen before looking back at me me my reflection. So I've been so busy ignoring me and all had done is just put a bit of makeup on dress but I'd never really taken time. To look at myself in the Mirror and say Yvonne actually, you're not bad looking actually fabulous. Actually I love you. I remember looking at that he made of. The mayor and I ran out of the bathroom I couldn't look her. I just couldn't do it because that was a stranger and it took years of doing the same thing for me to get to know that woman and that is another thing that has led me here. You know taking the talent in the morning. Just to go through that process, it took almost seven months for me to be able to come in the Mirror Street in is. On the first time I did it I cried because I've never seen me before. So if I don't see me, how do you expect people to see me if I can tell myself I love you. Can. I really tell my daughter I love you. It just doesn't work. How can I tell my husband? Love you when I don't know if I love myself. So. That was what happened to me. That's amazing. That's really amazing. I think. I think that's really powerful and. I'm actually questioning comfortable. I'd be doing it with myself honestly because I think as well. I was thinking when you saying I think is probably something you have to keep doing as well. It's not like one day works it has to be an ongoing process. Exactly. Acceptance because so many things sort of strip us Every day you get something stripping your the odd word some of this as to you because words actually take. Some of this as the wrong word to you, it's takes. You might think it doesn't take a stakes a goes into our clothes. It goes everywhere and it gets a point where it goes into you some very careful the words I use. To my daughter, sometimes I get really angry with them announced to say crazy things. But I have to pull myself back and think, okay what am I saying to this child? So if you look on my brand everything I, say I've customers the tide me crazy. I have people that but I have to think. If I should say this to this woman. You know what am I? What am I saying to her? I'll give you an example. I got an email. From a customer who said She bought almost six hundred pounds worth of stuff. In three different transactions she sent me an email to say I'm sorry I've got to return everything. Now everything's she's going to retail would cost me money to stock. Because somebody has to I and eight. Somebody has to the electricity e comes to seventeen pounds. An item to you. So for every six pounds of stuff, she's attorney costs money that is not a problem because he's built into the cost. However. I wanted to know why so I said to her a UK aca sense from the email that she wasn't. Okay. So I gave I'll call because she left her telephone number. And she put crying she's got a shopping addiction problem and the husband during Lakhdar kicked out of the House. And she was with her parents and she was in tears I was angry with her. For returning all the Star A had put my and go away and speak to her about I said, look we all have our issues. Yours is obvious because it's shopping your husband can pick up on it. Mine could be alcohol mine could be anger. We all have the same. So for you, this is it. I hope you find peace and I told her to return things but how to ban her for my shop? I'll tell you got the things but please shop with me anymore on advice you not that is me put him boundaries at the same time. Yes. Up Been kind to you, of course boundaries in place. So. Greenbacks. I think I could empathize with her and I want to say the wrong thing because saying to in that particular time. Could have damaged for life. bonk word. I had to something. told me this is not eight. Yeah. What you did as well as. You actually. Probably really helped her something that to understand that. The shopping thing is not just a face this amorphous blob it's actually real people real. There's a real cause and effect and she might that might actually help sought to break down some of that because for blew up until now I've been a safe place to put away things that she couldn't deal with an another way. That might might actually be a big turning point and quite so shocking I well. I. Just wanted to understand. Something profound to me. She said I've never felt good enough. I remember when I didn't feel good enough I don't know what my Was My addiction was anger. You know before my husband. Open the door a mighty screaming my neighbors know me because it can hear my big. Voice Shelton at my beautiful husband you know that was my thing. For her that is. That is what that is how she could deal with not been good enough. But Luckily, for me I found a way out of it to define that way I just by looking at myself in that mirror thing helps me look at myself in the mirror and just realizing actually. You are not bad. Actually you are and that that. Let me to finding my path and I said hey writing. I sat a writing about me On the blog post and who you intend the on that seeing it did it not really matter it didn't really matter. I felt that was my therapy. And that is another thing that saved me the righted they got to a point where I stopped writes in. About me. Because I felt. That's. Issues have been salted then motherhood there's a writing about. Motherhood. And that got salted as well. How to bring up my kids now is writing a blog about parenting. Thin. That gave birth to this. Because I was looking for a way to monetize. My parents in blog for brand wanted to walk wanted to work with me. So I look for way to monetize it and I launched with fifty pounds. I just thought. Okay. I'm going to invest fifty pounds into todd's bags. looked. For a local printer I can remember going to the guys who prints my children's uniform. On I said you print on the bag and he said, yeah so I, I'd even right anybody I get emails most of the time people ask me. Can you can you tell me who your supply is? Or can you advise me and I'm thinking now? Not because I don't want to do because Wayne you do it yourself. You learn everything you know the steps, insult me giving it to you on the platter. Yeah. But also there's it doesn't work like that doesn't even if someone shows you all the steps if you're not. Engaging in every step of it, you probably you'll get into that and then go to someone. Okay. Now, what do I do now? What do you got to be the one climbing the right? Yes. So people do that to me I can remember on the Saturday. My husband was looking after the kids and I went into the bedroom, my laptop and researching tote bags and selfish mother was there. I thought she that email her to find out and I thought that'd be rude. Why would you email somebody who has worked so hard for her brand that can you help me? I, I can remember buying Dying, tote bags and trying them out, and that was how it started with about fifty pounds you know and I. Graham was a guy who was printed. Oh, we fell out a lot. We're like married couple because he kept making a lot of mistakes you know. He was a person bats. Helped my business grow you know by saying okay I'll do it for you and it would take ten toads I wanNA have ten toes and put it on my website and it to sell art and I run back to Graham McCain and it got to a point that a grin Graham. Graham was growing with my business anymore. So I looked for somebody else. And then one step once yeah. So am I talking too much. Absolutely, no no. After my head is full of question. No, not at all. It's fascinating just when you done the tight brags wh where did that go from to the? Cheese. Okay. So Would pouches. Enough one been have two bags and then told by the first thing I printed was on it was I am enough. Those are the words that saves me when I was looking in the mirror and I felt some women either that. So I am enough with everywhere on instagram. Enough then went onto different slogans Mama Queen await onto so many things. And I felt people wanted more. You sort of feel it. Yeah. People wanted more. So I did this pouches like. Evening, bags and Graham was surprising for me. Then he will get you know gold silver printed on bags just little canvas bag. The women can take out or you can put your children's stuff in it to go guards, but there were a beautiful then at Granada gain us sort of know when people wants more. then. I went into jury. Okay. So I. Researched jury how can I get nickel-free jury? I went into that then outgrew that again even with the slogans it was really well. Then, as say, the universe has a way of telling you different things if you're ready to listen. Anytime, that are waiting to t shirts. Sad printing t shirts. So, anytime I'm. Taking. You know taking the photograph with my tote bag all with my pouches jury. People kept on doing something. That was that was quite annoying to me but I did not know the we're helping me. So I'll be wearing endanger imprint a wax sprints or a vintage skirts I never used to shop in the normal shops just used to wear very unique pieces and they'll be like is up to them to ask me if I love your show where can up. To ask me about my skirt. And that annoy me because I wanted to sell. But they kept asking me about my skirt and. They kept on doing it and I thought. Okay I. Remember what morning I was meditating. If you've got to do skirts, but in a way to start. Did, I did my research a gate I can't remember telling my husband Oh before I moved to skirts I was selling vintage pieces so that was a place in. Near kicks. Kingston where I used to go to they do wholesale vintage I just wanted to try out because people kept asking me about my skirts. I noticed that by the time I put it online it's sold out. So for days, I didn't have to sell. So I thought what is it about by personality people saw me as a Nigerian woman what is it that I can inject into my business and I was meditating one morning I thought. Everything Nigerians woks wear colorful with love walks you know. So I thought okay I, can remember telling my husband but I told him about the vintage things. You can scale that. Do it you would just be. Never make. Any money out of that and I thought I'll show you. And from there you know I went into the WOK sprains and I can remember the first day I wore the sample. And people the train kept stopping me to say. Where did you get that? From I knew I had something because I was going for Selfish mother had something in. Kingston and she had invited me or Richmond jet invited me and our war that with her t shirts and people didn't stop asking me. So I knew. Had something, and so distinct I mean everything I'm looking at here in the warehouse. I would note is one of your designs definitely and I can spot them all of them on. Out. About definitely is such a clear but I mean even though the. I can't even count how many different patterns we wasn't here. I can tell they're yours. P people say that the seeds and like thus thus chemical food I'm women actually stop themselves under street. That's Chemi Telford. Macci. Takes photos of each other. They've never seen each other before. Let's take a photo for chemical food does feel like joining the club definitely I wonder as well. If it's like you have given people, all these other introverts are their a way of saying when they wear something like this is a way of messaging people saying you might not know everything about me at one glance they might be more more layers than you think which is really a lovely feeling if you have that saying on so just gives that message. How does your husband and your family feel about this sorts of journey you've been on? Gina something Wayne I started I never allow people to give me permission to do what I wanted to. Saying that my husband without my house, I have to kind this hospital. I can remember when I met him. I knew that was my husband's. I just knew it I sat across and I saw the most beautiful person you know so. I he's a very kind person without him. I don't think I would have. Come this. Because, you need somebody there to support you. You know if he was somebody that was not supportive, I will be on really struggle. Yeah. But at the same time I. I. Would May I'm sorry to generalize you need to tell them what you want because they just don't know. So. With my husband I'd say can you and that did not come easy because I see my mother doing stuff for my dad and I that was what I saw her cooking all the time cleaning, washing, doing everything for him and he never did anything. So that was what I grew up seeing so I felt that was what I was made to but sat in this business as sort of you. See vamba on. Now, what was the question again, just asking you about how is for them because obviously when you got together with your husband and first seven years of your children's life, you're living a slightly on a journey to get into what feels like now a place where you feel like I can see myself this is me and I I understand where what was supposed to be doing all this time. I'll tell you something that is amazing. My husband is a very high earner. Right. And When I was not working he'd never really made me feel bad about money I had an allowance now I earn far modern him. My business. Earns far more than I mean. He looks I mean what e- ends in a year this piece this in like two three weeks. That's yearly big up. So things change. He's still working very supportive of me and it doesn't have an ounce of Chelsea. He tells every single person about what I feel. So emotional thinking about this about what wife as achieved, when he comes here and his having a meeting before we're waiting to lockdown and the girls are moved in here and the before the Gulf Stop School. He will have meetings I knew everybody around. Every he. Shouts about will ever cheesed. Yeah to everybody that wants to hear. Well, that's true. That's proper. Love. Isn't it? When someone can actually let you do that I think he he he's he's. Yeah John Is. Special And I think. I. Think. I don't I don't know I don't know why I think for in that aspect I'm blessed as well I don't have a man competing with me. Yeah. My wife is doing better than me. Yeah. I, just want to celebrate what you've done. I saw a post deeper recently where I think your family giving you a clock that has your instagram photo. Their oversee Koi. Quite keen to join in on celebration of. Yeah my my my daughters. My My. I think I. Love the fact that my daughters can see I'm doing. Dev really involved in the business. The photos they you see on our website, my husband and my daughter's take that. I'd never use a photographer. I only use myself as a model because I. Want Women to see that you know a woman like me can you can you? And actually me being the model was actually a mistake because not. A model and they're taking the photograph mistake as well because I not afford photographer. So would my kids went to come up from school after picking up in school I'll give them my mobile phones they take a photo and also instagram now didn't know how to handle the camera. Yeah. They know about fabrics when you talk to them about fabrics no because it's now like a family affair on winter wake up in the morning Hello Dolly in how will you do want a cup of tea and no the next showing them fabrics and talk to them about properties. Because I'm so passionate about it today, there's Oh mommy you talk about just fabrics. So they're actually involved in AIDS and Yeah. must feel, do you think they've having a very different upbringing from the one that you had? Yes completely different. Completely different I, think my children were understand business. I. Think my children will understand empathy. I think my children. Because my circumstances taught me empathy but my children actually semi practice it. Yeah I. Have this thing where. I won't do you know when You want to do something really nasty for your soul can let you do it. Because You it's not just you. It's not in your call. So my children see that about me where. As much as somebody annoys me out to do something really nasty I can't do it. because. It's not I just can't do it. So if they know that I have this thing, people ask me even when no one is watching. Why are you doing I? You why you? So I. I think the have that consistency India lives or because. That's the way to be nurtured I. Know they'll make mistakes. But that call that seed that's been sown in them dots I. Want them to be decent human beings I don't care whether they have money. Yes. Money makes things easier. It's important but. Miners that we get you places and kindness. I'm not talking about niceness. That's a different thing. Does what you become like a foot smuts that's what Nigerians called. The English on that Adama we foot Matt Yeah. You Know I. Don't want them to that. That's when you have no boundaries. Dan You now resents the niceness dawn yeah. So I think my friend gate the second chance of my upbringing my mother died at a young age me fending for myself to England where myself all the circumstances taught me empathy. Bought my parents teach me that's. For I'm teaching my children by why do yeah they see. Yeah. And presumably as well. The conversations that you have about, what is he saying what jobs they might do career my two very different. How are things was in two years younger? Yes. My older daughter I I fell into a trap which you know which your first child you make a lot of mistakes with your first child I call favourite Dalton number one not favorite. Not Number one is like you know my lab lab rats. Cole. And she's like my lab rats, the Child I used to make mistakes they make it with a second child because I've learned to the I. I remember when she was doing I eleventh class, it wasn't for her. and has a ninety million mom I can remember. Remember banging on about it. You must pass this exam or you're not coming back to this house. You know I can't remember too in all that. One day I just saw a girl I was in my daughter anymore. And I can't remember having a very difficult conversation with her and I can remember saying I'm sorry I got this wrong. I had to apologize for her they had to stop building are up again. Because I was one that bash sat down. I was so going through that process with its second daughter I did not do that. I can remember I I stopped teaching them the second one just see the exam she passed it by herself. The academic route is really tricky for kids that aren't that shape. It's like. And I think it's really hard to. Let, go of that feeling of how hard you supposed to push how much is it down to us as the parent Help them. Get the right discipline or work the right. Let my Hartland kids. It's as you say, just not it's not going to work out just make them really unhappy. It made her really sad it made out now she's an amazing school. And she is thriving and she is Dream Vita. Well, she's in the top set. She is really hard why Kate? She is disciplined she is she's just an amazing human being. And if I had sent her to the school where she she's not meant to be. I don't think she'll be how she she'll be who she is right now. That was me listening to the universe again saying, this is not for her doing this I was doing it for me. I was doing what every other mother was doing around here, grammar? School. You know my daughter and immediately one of your daughters go to grammar school. You feel you've done something not for the child. Buffer you So I was doing it for me not for my daughter until again I was meditating and I saw I just couldn't. She wasn't herself anymore on it's been nagging at me and all okay this has got to stop. She did the exams she did. Well, she did the first set she pasta. But the second she didn't. I just knew. Okay. This is taking of my. I asked her if she did the exams, you want to say, I've worked his hard a better. Do it. Even, to shed passage I, don't think I would have sent to school because he wasn't for her she would have been very unhappy. Yeah. I. Know I know that. And do you think for them? There was ever any point when you went from. Being, very available mom for the when they're younger to having this bit where you thought. No, I need to have some more boundaries in some time for myself. was there ever any? Guilt from you or resentment from Oh no, I think already knew the answer that question. Oh. No when when I, was with them fulltime I was on that on happy. They knew it. Did you with that Mommy's always yelling and shouting she's not happy. You know the new and Mitty high in my pain They're happier. My husband is happier. Yeah and I did not feel an ounce of guilt women say I feel guilty I don't feel that. Must be wonderful. It's wonderful I. Don't feel it because add given them. Time. On diluted time. Yeah. At. Invested everything into them and when they need me, they know. They're with me. I'll I have conversations with my daughters. I can remember uh I, just I reassure them all the time. No matter how busy I am. I want you to be able to come to me don't go to your friends because they don't know anything. So those a time there were talking about. Rights abortion rights in Ireland I. think that was last summer Saudi Arabia and I would drive in somewhere. I'm my daughter, my Yonder, my younger daughter Said who what is abortion? And I parked the car and explaining to them. And I said to them. If you ever get into any kind of trouble. Come to me. I'm your mother. Yes number one I've got the resources to saw any problem for you. Number two we'll talk about it. Number three. Don't go to your friends please come to your mother that is a way of me reassure in my daughters that you get into trouble. As a teenager I just. Don't think you can't come to me because you think I'm unavailable or I am not there to listen I'm running the business. Please I on every time I keep telling them. I reassured them all the time Konta to me. And I hope they do. Sometimes they do when they're in trouble in school they come to me sometimes they say some things and I feel really glad that my daughters kind actually say things to me that I could say to my parents and I think we assuring them especially the skulls. Is something that my parents? You know my parents did not really reassure me and I made a lot of mistakes because I couldn't go to my parents. To talk to them so I Make appoint to tell my daughters please come to me not your friends because he had not experienced in life I know no. You know the same age as you just just come to me and told them again. They have some aunties. If you think I'm going to go crazy with a mistake they've made. Yeah. They've got some aunties that can go on talk to. Now that council around especially when you go through teenage years and all that is so vital communication keeping the communication open is like the number one. Thank actually with making that that age. Go smoother than it could do otherwise. because. Otherwise, sometimes, walls come up between parents and kids going through that say to their life that don't actually really come down again if if you're not able to have those open conversations I think. Which is quite scary idea. Well. There's I. think it'd be really strange if I didn't ask you about some things that going on the news given the there's so much emphasis at the moment about black owned businesses. Now, I would never see MUIR spokesperson for that but is it something that you feel has affected you or the? I mean, there was. Such a significant change in how people are talking about racism and now being anti racist and. A lot more. Awareness I suppose in terms of how the forum is split with black business women and men how given opportunity to talk about what they're up to something that you about before everything you see what again because I grew up this So. Things happening here. I grew up in Nigeria. And Nigeria dig crowned you in your black. Miss. What does that mean they grounding balance you in the sense that You are. They something about Nigerians people think they're arrogant. About knowing themselves. So from a very young age, your parents would be telling you who you are whose child you are so. They just teach you to be not arrogant to be confident in. Yourself. So when I left Nigeria to come here I was. To, the daughter of Bobbio Kobe, a Nigerian I never saw myself as a black woman. I saw myself as a Nigerian but when I came to England I became after some years I saw myself as nine hundred but some things happened that made me see myself as a black woman. In England. And that is just lately that I said ASEAN myself as a black woman because at nine hundred seventeen was sending me even if somebody was racist to what's me because of my not arrogance because of my because I know who I am I just used to miss it. Actually. I just did not see. Yeah. But I went to a place and I wrote about this week my boss. Went to this, house? In London this massive house that they have to scan you before you go in somebody's house. And My boss did not tell me this. We went there and before the meeting started. He told me to gone seats with the maids in the mates kitchen. Lit on I found out that the owner of the house would not have tolerated a black woman. there. What. Yes. So that happens to me however. However. I. Remember I did not tolerate that I remember picking up the phone and speaking to my husband immediately a win back to the office and my husband said you've got to leave. You have to leave. I left I can remember getting on the train. And Leave I left. But saying that. I think it's about time. Another thing happened where a woman, I. I would me because. I get some kind of privilege being Nigerian because my accent is different. So people treat me really. But when I speak to my friends who are put fish porn, they have a different experience for me when you speak to. Black women to have French accent treated differently compared to people that are born in England black women are born in. England. So for me. It how it has affected me if even with my business. On instagram. You can see some things but because I know who I am. I know who I am. Now. I just shove it off but I think is about time for my children. For all the people who look like me. I think it's about time things changed. Is it something you girls talk about home much or my children don't talk about it because my children I mix of two So my husband's wide. My children don't even see. Their father is white. Did seem the Simion Nigerian woman because I'm always buying on about. I talk about enjoy all the time. So you know the their mother as a nine hundred and but put my children. I've never. I think with the younger generation because the younger generation fighting this battle, the Yoga generation don't really see what adults see I think that's very true. The younger generation don't see race. They know that yes you're black your white poor. We're all the same. We're all from the same source. So I think the younger generation, it's different I think our generation and the people. I. Think until when things are GONNA change a bit but onto Wayne, our generation dies off. Yeah. Yeah no I think you're right I think. This is a I think. I had the conversation, my eleven year, the other night and. It was I realized so much. It was so so nuanced and subtle, and actually really hard to explain to a child is still sees things when kids kids born with an innate sense of. Fairness and being justin they that they. It doesn't really occur to them is a learned behavior. It definitely is I think it's it's probably my generation and up that really got. More work to do really here I think most of us with. Most of those without even. Know it well, some people know it and pass it on to their kids. Yeah. Some people know it. But most of us don't even know it that we pass it on to our kids. So he's a learned behavior palm win parents are loving and you know a kind to people to them pick open the and children actually know when they're not been nice to another child deafening denault that except they've got really messed parents at home because when you have missed parents, you're messed up yourself. You know. So I think with the younger generation and they're the ones I've been fighting this battle not older ones. Two older ones you know we were. Yes. We want things to change by with the older generation like any everything we're comfortable. With. The younger generation they are the one that took to the streets. So they are the ones that really would make the Change Yep. That's what I believe. I don't know I don't know how to answer this question nothing. Brilliant. My friend. I've always been people know. Who owns the print under still supported me and they still I think people see the soul. Of Things. So I think people the by see my soul, the Yvonne yet. They don't see my color some people to see my color. But the people that come to me. To buy from me yet. See, a soul I think that's completely i. think that's the intrinsic part of I mean obviously, you're close a beautiful and go just to look at and. They're celebrating but actually I genuinely feel like it's a little clubby become part of as well when you when you own a piece of. Clothing or you recognize it when you're out and about and I think I, think you're. You say you're you're. So your the things that you've learned is so intrinsic and it's from the moment you I fully when instagram or any any interaction you have. It's it's imbued in all of it. I. Think it will seems to come back to the significance of the first thing he printed I am enough that. It's so. I can see how much you hope that that's that's the woman that's out. There is understanding that then taking that from. From that. Yeah I. Hope So. I think now and I think that thing about the. The epiphany of being able to look at yourself in the mirror and. She, just say I love you I love you for you are right now and I, honestly I feel like I wish more I think you should do a Ted talk or something I feel like more people should that because there's so many ways. That, we can make ourselves invisible. And can't be the oblivion of an addiction that drowns out the noise, but it can also be. Actually by. Draping. Yourself in the businesswoman sit with the handbag becoming that person or having the kids newsy. You can't talk about yourself because you put it on your kids or. the way that you relationship with food. Then you make yourself invisible in physical way so many. So many ways disappear. but if you we only get one life so. Everybody. Has the should have the platform to be to be seen. And if no one asked yourself. And I think people would see you. If you don't see yourself. Is just impossible the Niger improve say. If the something called calabash dinars a compassionate. Is like it's a plant right? You Dry it is like. It's as big as Watermelon. Okay, and so you try to new school Patois is inside and you make a bowl out of it. Is like. A ceramic. Bowl. Yeah. You know made auto plant I haven't. You took a bright you. Do anything with it. Like AIDS from it is it's a bull, right? And they say if you use your calabash to pack rubbish people will help you pack rubbish with it. So basically, if you say if you had women say something like. They're making me sick. Oh, I'm so stupid. Yeah. I'm one of those people. Oh, please don't tell me I can't believe I'm trying to iron out I've had my kids and I said you've got to do I. Know it comes from me. Yeah I can't I can't imagine saying that to myself. or Oh I'm so silly or. People will start calling you stupid and silly and wait till. You tell them to please stop because you have called yourself silly and stupid. So. Things I wouldn't even say to myself. I just won't do it. And there's a boundary and that means I put a boundary there for people not to cross even on my instagram. Page. If you notice, the women are service spectra to each other because there's already a boundary there. Does a boundary you just don't cross you know so for me. I don't know I, hope women can see the power they have women have. Amazing Power That's why I talked about when a mother is no longer here the effect it has on the child. Because we are so powerful So there are some things you can't even say to yourself. You shouldn't allow people to say to you and immediately you start seeing yourself. As an amazing human being because we all. Then people was seniors amazing. Well I think what's really incredible. Not just that that's such a powerful and beautiful thing for people to. To be inspired by, but also the fact that you feel that you didn't live your life that you actually were able to change it. Because for a lot of people you'd think off I've been I've been like that for thirty forty years but that's a huge. Don't you think yeah, I can't be an excuse or just feel of insurmountable but it's really encouraging to think it's not to today's still can't be the day that you you shift that it's hard. I, want I want lie to hard work. For you to change. Who you've always been. But it can be done if someone like me can change. On e I shoot even you know I. I can't even tell you what been through in live you know. If I can change it than anybody can do it is just baby steps. Baby steps. You know look in the mirror you kinda runaway like I did the first day and it took several months for me be able to cut myself. Seven months. Five giving up. For every morning I went in there every morning I went in there every single morning I went in there I wasn't going to give up because I knew I was doing it for me and I was doing my girls. But. Mostly for me, I don't want my girls to be messed up. Even though they're going to be messed up I, don't want to be yes. I've missed them up a bit for I. Don't want to be the person who totally makes messed them up. I just had to do it for me. You have you have. It's funny when we had our brief chats the other day before. Making plan to today I I knew I'd leave here. With A. New, I'd come out of it feeling like I learned something from you because I could hear in your voice on the phone on. I think I think honestly a given me so much to think about I'm sorry. No wonderful. Apologize it's significant because I think it's very easy to sweep of yourself out the way Ashley and you think you're doing it to be a people pleaser and to satisfy make everybody else. Happy. But actually, no, one's going to give you a big pat on the back for for making us off disappear actually just they'll just keep doing it to you. A It's a really. Big, turning points to start recognizing that. You know that if you wanna live your life as a martyr and be like be put upon, that's another thing. Pot was if you'll put I know some people where they'll take. Thing is the plant and the ball, but it's not. Saying if you're if you're someone that's a Marta to it, you know you meet some people say. Don't worry about me I. Mean I'm happy to do this and I'm happy to do that. But also to tell you all the good deeds they've done. Quite happy that they've sort of your old would be in that role of Oh. No don't worry. I'll tell you the mess and I'll do this not do that. But then they also kind of want you to say, Oh, you're being amazing for like if that's if that's your thing that's separate thing but I think if you'll just someone that. is letting yourself be way down by being the Go-to for everything else I think it's really important to. To redraw boundaries and start it with yourself. And Honestly feel like I've I've got a little bit of work you maybe. In, a good way. Philip Mystic. I think it's positive. I don't think it's I think it's I. You know I think. For, me are feel everyday as I'm sitting here with you I'm learning. All learn from each other. I'm learning I'm learning so much I think. The day we stop learning is the day that we fail. We've got to be able to learn something from each other. You know. What is the point of leaving if you're not going to improve? Yeah So we're lying. That's life. You have. To. Learn. Between now and then. In the meantime help you. Is that I? Take War he can take in like my customers have patient. Thank you, Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much We. See I told you of almost full of wisdom. Isn't that amazing? Honestly, how chat is the one I've told all my girlfriends after listen to. Look I've been speaking to so many amazing women and if I've learned anything and I haven't done just one thing I've learned lows but. The overriding thing of learn through talking to these people just never ever judge everybody's around things going on. But with Vaughn I, just think that whole thing of the king is often the mirror and liking yourself loving yourself thinking you're worthy of people talking to you nicely and being decent and respectful and taking ideas further and being confident. His just so powerful sounds so simple but I don't know if that's something I've thought about myself. You know I feel like a there are versions of quite happy with like I'd look back and go actually I didn't really mind me at twenty seven or I mean I remember thinking when I was thirty, six, thirty six was a good year for me that was five years ago. Remind myself to actually take stuff of where I'm not. Now what's important to me now So I hope I hope you can take a little bit of that with you because honestly think some people that is going to be a bit of a pivotal moment just like it was when she heard it. A Nice thought isn't it to empower yourself? next week. I'm talking to Jacqueline gold she is. C- of an summers. So incredible successful businesswoman but path them has not been smooth has not been easy and she's one of those people that just got She she's just able to be very commanding. I'm very clear her thinking and her ability to convey which thinking but never been pushy and I. Think she is pretty example of a women in the business world where you feel equal. So you know make a big noise to be heard naturally being. A little bit more study a little bit more considered. Get the job done to. She was really lovely. I'm looking forward to hearing that. and. if. This. Week take care of yourself. Go and try the thing and looking at the I love day you you can overcome your bashfulness and you might just realize should he? You'RE PRETTY SPECIALTY? All right. I'll leave you with that thought lots of love season. Up Work is the world's largest remote talent platform devs, designers, writers, strategists, you name it find higher pay all in one place whatever skills your scope demands up work is how need to find coders outside your area code an SEO specialist for six weeks or designer through December. Pros available, Short or long-term one time or as often as you need them and they're proven rated and reviewed when you need in demand talent on demand upward is how