20 Episode results for "Jack Zimmerman"

Therapy Myths & Misconceptions

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

27:06 min | 11 months ago

Therapy Myths & Misconceptions

"You're listening to not crazy a psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard you're listening to not crazy I want to introduce my co host Jackie Zimmerman she is married to a retired rapper and also lives with depression and I'll introduce you to my co-host gave Howard who lives with not a retired rapper instead of very lovely woman named Kendall he also lives with bipolar what what was atoms rap name. I feel that's important for the listeners to know Adam's wrath nameless Ben Homes Ben homes you can youtube that after you're done listening to not crazy Jackie we wanna talk about therapy we just want to dive right in which of course is what you're supposed to do in therapy therapy and talk about misconceptions myths rumors there most people believe that therapy is accurately portrayed on television and it's almost the never accurately portrayed on television now. I want to preface this whole episode with the fact that I fucking love the therapy and I think everybody should be in therapy and the world will be so much happier in calmer and just a better place to exist if everybody everybody was in therapy it's important that we point out that licensed social workers psychologists and the therapy business association association is not paying us for this episode but they are definitely not but you know what I don't even care I would donate those words time and time again it because I love therapy why do you like therapy so much what is it about therapy that you feel has benefit because you said everyone you didn't say everyone with a mental health crisis everyone with mental you literally said everyone what is it about therapy that you feel has benefits to literally literally everyone the thing that I love the most about therapy one candidly you get to talk about yourself pretty much the whole time and and where else in your life can you do that in a constructive way can you can get a pod Yup accurate I think it's easier to get therapy for everybody it's definitely cheaper yes I don't know actually so therapy you talk by yourself in a constructive way so you're diving into your thoughts your feelings things your opinions everything about yourself that is worth thinking twice about an understanding it specifically your behaviors so the things that that you do in life that may be good self sabotaging or everywhere in between and working really hard to understand that and how can anybody not a benefit from that in your work relationships in your life in the way you interact with the world understanding why you do what you do is like a gift it isn't that something that you can do with your best he I mean seriously can't can't you just get a group of your buddies hanging out at the local watering hole and and talk about all the Manusha Russia and shit in your life and end up in the exact same place without bringing you know doctors into this a couple years ago I probably would have said yes yeah sure you can hash out everything in your life with your friend or your sibling I know my sister and I have a tendency to use each other whereas like a little bit of therapy be like hey let's talk about this thing in circles until blue in the face and then we feel better about it that is still a really beneficial thing to have those conversations but for me in what I do in my therapy with my therapist shouts kristen is we talk talk about the science behind it why we do these things so kristen uses research she is stats we know how much I love stats on behaviors and why people do think so she can say you know we looked at one hundred people and they do what you do and we found out this is why they do it and now I understand why I do the things thinks that I do the difference between hashing out a problem with a friend and doing it with a therapist is understanding the why behind it there's also a little more let let's be honest when we event with our friends that's where it ends you know our friends aren't solutions focused for us and in fact I get really annoyed when when I come home from work and I'm like I hate my job I hate my life everything socks and all my co workers pissed me off and my wife starts giving me advice on how to handle them I'm like do not understand the system I want to complain you hug me and tell me that I work with evil people and we're done therapists are they don't they don't want to just talk about it you know step one is to get it out in the open but then there's all of these other steps there's doing something about it like you said understanding the why behind your behavior and assigning homework so so you can figure out how not to do it in the future I I love my friends but it's really not their role to fix me it's their role to support important me and therapy is not just about support in fact I would kind of argue therapies not really about support all therapy is about getting better so you don't need to be in therapy will not only that but your therapist in the beginning at least is a third party observer in your life they don't know you the way your friends know you in my opinion if you do therapy the quote unquote right way is you give them the unfiltered version of yourself I say things in therapy that I wouldn't tell my friends it's because I don't want their judgment or their concern or any of their feelings thrown onto me and I know the therapist won't do that she listens she she gets feedback and she helps me work through those things as opposed to taking it on as her responsibility the way that my friends might it'd be interesting what you just said there and I kinda don't WanNa touch on it for a moment third party observer another way to say that if they're not biased rate when your friends say something I I I have a a friend and and I love him he is the greatest person that I have ever known and I'm not overselling it like I look up to him and when he tells me stories about him at work I think I would fire you I would fire you so hard when he tells me that things that that his supervisor say to him I am on his supervisors side I don't tell him the truth that's another way to say I lied to him I tell him I agree with him his supervisors nuts and oh my God I can't believe you worked for that help it I I actually don't think that at all but I'm not I don't want to jeopardize my friendship I don't want to overstep I don't Wanna add onto his already frustrated state so I do the male Sola quivalent of stroking his hair telling them nobody understands him that job suck and then we get pizza and watch the avengers a therapist won't do that it's malpractice therapist does that well I guess that goes into what is the job of a friend and I think a lot of people have different opinions on this is your friends us job to just support you or is it your friends job to agree with you right is if your friend disagrees with you in these situations are the good friend or they a bad friend and what's the beauty about therapy is that your therapists doesn't have to think about any of that and you don't have to think about any of that I live with bipolar disorder and when I first started going to therapy I wanted talk about the trauma of this illness I wanted to talk about how I felt and how I couldn't handle all of these emotions and how scared and terrified I was and that was the focus of therapy when I first started going and it was invaluable but then when things started to get better and I started to be in a good place then then I learned coping skills I learned all the things that I can do if or when I get sick again so while I'm well is is when I learned those coping skills and it's no different than other things that we do in life you know when my house is not on fire that's when I have smoke detectors that's when I buy a fire extinguisher that's what I learned the escape plan do fire drills I don't make the plan when the house is on fire we do it's just basically me in the middle of the night yelling my wife case it she hates it night therapist has been really good good about when do you wanna come back one week three weeks a month we don't have a set thing it's whenever I feel like I need to come back and I said to her one time everything's great so I don't know I could probably three weeks that's when she was like you know it's really good to talk about things that are good to it it's good for your brain it's good for your heart good for you at all the feelings gave how often do you go to therapy because it is solutions oriented for me. I go to therapy whenever I have a problem that I wanNA resolve so I can't nail that down because I was diagnosed sixteen years ago when I first was diagnosed once a week I mean once a week like clockwork and then it became like every other a week to disclose right now I haven't been to a therapist in probably about six months now I still have her she still mine I still have her card but I I have I've been doing well and I don't have anything pressing but also to disclose it probably is time to go back there's things that are somewhat hard to get over or that I wanted to discuss with I just WanNa discuss them with her so there you go I I have kind of come full circle right from once a week to every other week to as I needed to a long stretch that's what therapy is what kind of therapy data like when you're in your sessions what are you well so. I see a cognitive behavioral therapist I'm really a big fan of the CBT model there's many other models out there I'm not criticizing any other type of method at all and in fact I encourage you if you don't like the method that you're using or you don't like your therapist switch it up which it up I've seen a lot of therapists in my life and I think that's helpful well in the best therapist for you is the one that you're going to go to this ongoing theme for me right the best thing for you who is the thing that you're GonNa do we'll be right back after these messages interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field given listen to the psych central podcast I hosted by gay powered visit Psych Central Dot com slash show Oh subscribe to the psych central podcast on your favorite podcast player this episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are licensed accredited professionals anything you share share confidential scheduled secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it's needed a month of online therapy often cost less than a single traditional personal face to face session go to better health dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you better help dot com forward slash psych central and we're back talking about what I love therapy so much let's talk about pop culture for a minute because I think it's really important right one of the most famous mental health practitioners in the country is Dr Frasier crane almost everybody's heard of doctor Frasier crane unless you're you're under the age of thirty right now and in which case this is a television show that you can probably find on nick at night or something it's on with lady oh I never watch frazier so yeah just a little background Dr Frazier Crane started as a character on cheers long running show then then he got his own spin off where he's a psychiatrist and they showed him at work from time to time and it just wasn't a very accurate portrayal trail for one thing they showed him giving actual therapy so he would talk to somebody for an hour and then prescribe medication that that does happen it can happen it is not completely incorrect there are psychiatrists that do therapy along with medication but that that's not the way that it's usually done usually oh you psychiatrists handle medication. Psychologists social workers marriage and family therapists they handle therapy yes. I would say that is a fairly large misconception is a lot of people think about going to therapy they think about talk therapy and you assume they're equals also getting medication I think a lot of people don't understand that most people you go to for talk therapy cannot prescribe medications so your social workers in your psychologists just cannot prescribe medication you need a psychiatrist for that which is a separate appointment or if you're like me my PCP minearology will prescribe those meds ads for me because of all my other fun maladies melodies melodies other issues. Jackie we know you love therapy but let's talk about the very very first time that you went so here you are you're Jackie's Zimmerman Queen of getting shit done you're a bad asher an ex roller derby girl you're tough I I really think that you embody toughness and now you're gonNA walk into a room and dump all of your problems on a stranger walk us through why you decided to make got decision and why maybe you didn't want to the first time I went to therapy I don't remember was a million years ago but the time that I started seeing kristen which to me embodies this whole situation was about four years ago when my dad had died about six months earlier the family dynamic had changed pretty significantly and I was not coping with it might oppression was through the roof I was feeling out of control all of my emotions how I interacted with my family I've started feeling suicidal again I just couldn't handle it there was too much of everything too much bad too much emotion too much sadness too much grief too much anger all of those things. I just knew everything was about to explode I don't know if I could have I told you it was those ten things or whatever but I knew the lingering grief for my father's death the issues I was having interacting with other members of my family it was the powderkeg it just was like on the verge of exploding exploding to me at that time meant utter total meltdown in my life being unable to we just handle anything at that time and at that time also I was not on meds so it was like a double whammy of not being able to handle my situations and not having any any support whether that be through therapy when you say complete and total meltdown you know let let's really define that you mean like just when we think of an implosion Asian it's usually some crazy woman screaming and everybody to get the hell away from her and that she never wants to talk to them again causing real damage in the lives of the person doing it am I describing it correctly you are aside from the outward expression all of that I did quit my job I was having issues with a lot of friends in my life I was trying really hard not to put my grief on other people but by doing that I was actually taking on their grief as the result of my dad dying so the shades are always drawn it's always dark. I probably showering once a week we get best under a blanket cuddling with dog watching some shitty rerun on Netflix all day every day not even wanting to get the mail out of the mailbox just total despair it was a combination of all of those things but I wasn't showing it wasn't expressing suppressing it just was taking it all in and it was building it was powder keg is the best way where it was slowly layering up to the point where I was was never like screaming or yelling at anybody that's not really who I am I just was not interacting with the world anymore stuck out stocking phone call Stepdad's texts isolate surge wallow when I'm really depressed so I was isolating wallowing and not taking any steps at that time to get better I know oh me and I know when I get really depressed when things get really bad I can see it I know what's happening and so that time I said I need tippy badly and how did you come up with this idea because I imagine that you had to believe a lot of the same Mrs other people you You watch the same TV shows you live in the same society diety just did you honestly believe when when you woke up one day you're like Oh this is GonNa fix me it's going to be perfect I know this is the way or were you skeptical where you desperate where was was a jackie in that moment I had been to therapy previously in my life never in the depths of this before but I have seen the benefits often on just making me feel better in in that moment I didn't feel I had any other options to make it better her you know like there was nowhere else I go so I knew I had to do something so that's where I started and I think a lot of people could understand that despair that desperation that loneliness that I have no idea what to do and obviously being able to work through that with somebody is very empowering and it helps you take take back control rate therapists don't tell you what to do they help you decide what to do and I think that's like another myth that you just go to the therapist therapist they tell you what to do and then suddenly life gets better sometimes I kinda wish that was true because I hate it when I have to think for myself there are times that I kind kind of said to kristen like could you just tell me I should do right now because I don't know and she won't do you tell me what to do and there are sometimes I go there and I just cry and we barely speak but I just needed to go somewhere where I could cry in with somebody again who won't take on my emotions and and let them affect their life in their other times where I- lesson plan my therapy where I show up and this is the things that I really need to talk about today let's make it efficient run out of time nine that's my favorite way to do it some other myths that I wanted to spell right now is that therapy is like a a new age millennial thing and one of the reasons that I wanted to spell it is because Ah you know young people always seem to get beat up with this idea that talking about your feelings or emotions or going to a mental health practitioner is some oh a young people are pansies IBO and they can't deal and I think that's damaging because I think it prevents young people from seeking therapy but more than that it's untrue it's bullshit therapy has been around for generations and so many people have taken the advantage of it agreed therapy is something that has been around for a long time and it continues to evolve so all of these people who have been naysayers or who think that today's just laying on a couch talking to Dr What I love about therapy right now is an specifically about kristen who I cannot say enough good things about is she is always learning new things and she brings them into our session so new things new trends new stuff in therapy are coming into my sessions in there approving them and I think when you look at the younger generation now they know this rate it's not you're you're not your father's therapy anymore there's a lot of different things things and ways that you can do therapy now that people are enjoying but I think it's important to point out that you said not your father's therapy acknowledging that our father's father's generation did go to therapy and specifically this is probably one of my favorite stories to tell my father went to therapy I let me tell you about my dad my dad is now seventy years old he's a retired truck driver the big eighteen wheel truck that was my dad he's he he says things like arm the man of the House even though my mother makes every single decision the man has ever had he really does believe in this certain amount of Chutzpah aw and masculinity and be a man and I'm not saying any of this you know please don't write letters that my dad's a misogynistic prick he's not he he really isn't my sister went to the military my dad was her biggest supporter and of course deeply deeply worried and concerned when war broke out our dad sound very similar in that my dad wished he had been net senior truckdriver also had two daughters who basically he told could do anything they wanted to do forever and ever but back to your dad my dad seventy years old truck driver blue collar bats men's man when I went to therapy after being diagnosed with bipolar disorder I was in my therapist office bawling I was so terrified terrified and scared and everything that comes with it I remember I was in a psychiatric hospital it was a mess but one of the things that I thought about is Oh my God I've got to tell my dad I'm seeing a therapist Arabist I I have to admit to my father that I can't handle life I I'm not man enough those are the exact words that went through my brain I'm not man enough I think that as a man I I can't relate to that but the I can't handle it I think that is a overwhelming L. Mania a motion of people who want to go to therapy but can't tell the people in their lives because they think that it looks like they can't handle themselves and and here's why that's so messed up I told my dad I remember we were standing outside and I said to my dad I'm seeing a therapist and he said well all you need to talk to somebody you know I see a therapist which floored me and I said you you see therapist and he said yes after your mother other and I got done with marriage counseling I decided I would like to see somebody flooring number two and I said why didn't you tell me and he said that's not not the kind of thing that a parent discusses with their children are are you kidding me I was afraid to tell you what if I was afraid to go what if I chose not to go now obviously didn't tell my dad any of these things I was just so floored and and it was it was kind of emotional right my dad and I are just kind of standing there outside in the dark and I'm just like who the hell are you and since my diagnosis my dad's confided in me all kinds of things that he never shared not not publicly not with his family so I have to imagine and I I don't know for certain but clearly there must have been some level of shame or he would have brought this up or or maybe he doesn't like to talk to me because I talked to dominate the conversation he's like I don't need this shit I dunno great now yeah but my belief Jackie was that he would be in barest of me yeah I had something similar to that when I first started going to therapy I was in college I remember I just didn't tell my family once I got really sick and everything started tanking and I told him housing therapy I think they fully understood why I was there there was no judgment but before that it was a little bit of what's so bad what's so bad about your life that you need therapy and they would have never said that to me but it was never like hey go to therapy this is a great thing for everybody and I don't think there would have ever been any negative emotion around it it just wasn't encouraged it wasn't normalized and I think to your story if your parents had told you they were in counseling or your dad was in therapy it could've normalized it any wouldn't have had to talk about it wouldn't have had to share what you spoke about in your sessions but it could have at least been like this is not a bad thing doesn't make you less of a person or less of a man therapies for everyone yeah when I go to the dentist I don't think Oh my God how am I going to tell my family normalize it let people know that you're doing it because I made the decision to go ahead and do it and just suffer the consequences of my fathers disappointment but what if I would have said no this is why I think generation Z. is amazing because it is much it's more normalized Therapy on facebook I'm not in my twenties anymore but I think it's worth telling other people do this and I love it in it's beneficial and there's no shame in doing it like I love I can't I love therapy so much we spend less oh talking about why I love it and the reasons I love it and and the things that I say when I'm in there that I love in the way that my therapist says things that I love because it's just so great and my goal my political platform of therapy for all is coming coming to fruition with our next generation at least closer than maybe it has been in the past Jackie twenty twenty it's a little sue that's awesome lesson twenty twenty four maybe you've been listening to the not crazy podcast with Gabe Jackie and we have a personal favor I know no big surprise here one and we want you to review and rate this podcast wherever you found it use your words write us a nice message if you have any topic ideas complaints or suggestions hit up show so at Psych Central Dot Com finally share this podcast widely and remember we like to give stuff to our listeners so after the credits there's an outtake we screw something up we hope you enjoy it I you've been listening to not crazy from psych central for for free mental health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy to work with gate go to gain power dot com to work the Jackie goes to Jackie Zimmerman dot co not crazy travels well half Gabe Jackie recording episode so live at your next event email show and psych central dot com for details. We'll get that another ready so so I they're fucking plowing the goddamn field said no one ever Once again not a euphemism do you live in eighteen hundred shut up okay so rallied the wagons. Everyone how do Yo-.

Jackie Zimmerman Dr Frazier Crane Jack Zimmerman Howard Netflix Adam depression Kendall kristen Dr Frasier nick seventy years three weeks six months million years sixteen years four years seven days
Anxiety and Anger: A One-Two Punch

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

27:03 min | 7 months ago

Anxiety and Anger: A One-Two Punch

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast. And here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Everyone and welcome to this week's not crazy. I'd like to introduce my co host gay. Who lives with bipolar disorder and is really really wonderful. I would like to introduce my co host Jackie who lives with major depression and is not whatever that's actually a really great segue. Gabe because as you may know a couple of weeks ago. We talked about bipolar anger. And I was pretty angry that I didn't get a chance to share some of my experiences not with bipolar anger. But with anger that is rooted in anxiety and so. I thought that that would make a good episode. To continue the anger talk I guess but Redirected towards anxiety. If you haven't listened to that episode you should definitely go and check it out and you don't have to have bipolar disorder to learn anything from it because one of the things that it talks about. How anger is on a spectrum from irritability to rage and and everything in between we really kind of delve deep so a little asterix there that we might reference the episode. But you know we might not. We don't know what we're doing. We're weighing at every episode. We just but Jackie. You made a good point when the show wrapped up. Jackie and I were talking and Jackie said you know. Do you think we made the point that people without bipolar disorder can be irrationally angry and I said well. I don't know that we ever discussed it. And then Jacquie explained. Oh but we hand and by we I mean people who live with anxiety and experienced these little blips I guess of completely irrational moments of anger and the number one reason why I really wanted to talk about. This was because I didn't know this was anxiety until it had a very clear conversation with my therapist. Shout to Kristen as usual. We know I love her because I would have these moments where I would get so angry so fast and I knew that it was irrational. I knew it didn't make sense. I knew that I was completely overreacting but I couldn't stop. I couldn't figure out what it was and I couldn't figure out why whatever it was was making me so angry and as it turns out that was my anxiety. Anxiety is this far reaching kind of emotion on one hand. Anxiety is kind of good. I mean it's it's the hairs in the back of your neck that stick up it's a warning system and sometimes it's good to be nervous before I go onto a stage to give a speech. I always have you know the butterflies in my stomach. You know I'm I'm just a little bit nervous and I kinda like that because it shows me that I understand the gravity of what I'm about to do. I'm taking the situation seriously. Which makes me more prepared but an anxiety. Disorder of course is when that anxiety is too much and that anxiety has to manifest itself in something whether it's an anxiety attack or just in Jackie's case what we're now calling Blip Ridge blip rage. I like it yeah. It is not a fun thing to experience and mostly because I know that when this happens. It's almost always directed at my husband. My lovely husband Adam who does not deserve any of this blip rage but he's on the receiving end most of the time because it's something sorry Adam something that he's done that is not a big deal but it has triggered this little bit of anxiety that turns into anger and so then I'm like just raging at him and I know it's wrong and then feel bad while I'm doing it but you can't stop you know it's like when you're eating like a jar of pringles and you just can't stop eating the whole thing or are you literally. GonNa say once you pop. You can't stop it. Principles Ladies and gentlemen sponsoring not crazy since Never Cincinnati. Well straight up never anxiety once you pop the anxiety thing. It's just like full steam ahead so I think that people listen. You're like what you just said that your husband did something wrong. So it's your response to it that's unrealistic. I think we've kind of followed along in that but just to kind of ground this for us. He'll give us an example of something that your husband did wrong. And you're disproportionate. Anger too said situation. I have so many examples but something happened a couple of weeks ago and now that I know that this is anxiety. I'm able to like talk myself down. Sometimes where I'm like. This is just anxiety. You're not actually angry but when I left the House I will tell the story but when I left I went through what I was deep thinking right like where the panic was coming from and then I was able to explain that to Adam later. Okay but what did Adam do want giving there so this is what happened? I was leaving for therapy. Actually this is like the greatest part of all of this. I was leaving for therapy. Adam was parked behind me. I leave chronically early for everything because I hate being late because it makes me anxious so I'm like leaving early. We're good to go. I know he's parked behind me but that's fine because his keys are on the hook and I'll just move his car until his keys are not on the hook anymore and now I start to panic. 'cause I'm GONNA be late. I hate being late. You're unreliable when you're late people judge you when you're late so I'm like Adam where your keys and he goes. Oh they're in my pants pocket in your office. I go into my office. There's no fucking pants in my office keys in my office so now. It went from zero to furious in literally. Four seconds from couldn't find the keys to couldn't find the keys to now. I'm ready to murder somebody here. You getting angry. You get so anxious to Your Voice. You started off with. Let me explain this thing that happened between me and my beloved and then all of a sudden the F. Word came out you're just like okay. These these are keys so we all agree that not being able to find your keys in the grand scheme of things not that big of a deal and also you live in like twelve hundred square foot house. So there's just a finite place that they could be right right. I know this so adam gets out of bed. He walks four steps in a different direction and picks up his keys and goes here. They are while. I'm already furious at this point right because I'm GONNA be late. I get the keys. I am honestly approximately probably a total forty seconds later than I had anticipated being. But this is the forty seconds. It's GonNa make the difference in my day. I was not even a block away from the House and I immediately felt guilty and like a dickhead so I was like all right. Just what happened? What just happened self because that one was like kind of a doozy hang on? Hang ON JACKIE. Let me back you up for a moment when you started doing the self talk this sort of chain analysis of what was going on in your mind and what was happening and why you lost your shit on atom. Had the anger subsided. Were you now back to normal? I'm trying to avoid using the phrase. How'd you calmed down? So I was in the car driving and now now this is just anxiety right like heart rate faster. Everything is just more intense. I'm not mad anymore. Now I just have lingering like heart palpitations. I'm still anxious heightened anxiety but the anger part is slipping away. And that's when I start to feel like I was a jerk in that moment where I can feel it slipping away. The anger has started to subside. So your rational brain is is starting to take over. And that's when you sort of realized that you got angry at Adam for essentially either doing nothing wrong depending on how you look at it or doing something just minor a minor household infraction. You Lost Your Shit over. So guilt is probably the next feeling that is about to like forum in your brain yes. I almost immediately called him in apologized. They went to therapy and on the drive. There it's about minutes away. I was thinking about what was actually the anxiety process right like what was I so anxious about what was it that I was worried would happen as you may know if you live with anxiety. A lot of anxiety is rooted in fear whether we know it or not. Most anger is also rooted in fear. So it's not terribly surprising when they present in similar ways and so I was trying to think about what was I afraid of and then I wanted to be able to explain this to Adam later. Because we've gotten past the point of identifying this angers Zion. He knows it's anxiety now but it doesn't make it any better. It doesn't make it any easier to understand and it damn sure doesn't make me feel any less guilty after it happens. What do you do with that guilt? So now your anger has calmed down. Your rational brain has taken over. You are now. Back to the Jackie's Zimmerman that we all know in love. But you've got this thing in your past that happened. So what do you do I went to? How can I explain this to atom? How can I help him? Understand irrational anxiety anger not to be like well now you get it so it doesn't matter if it happens it doesn't count anymore but to me. It felt like if I could get him to understand when he sees this happening. He might not take it personally. Basically a might just be like. This is a behavior that you have that we work through and I can help. Calm you down in these moments as opposed to being like figure it out. The keys are on the hook kind of thing one. I'm going to say as your friend who is always on your side at any fight that you get into with your spouse. Yeah yeah he should help you manage your emotions and learn to be a better spouse for an irrationally angry anxious person. I got your back and then I'm going to say really you think Adam has to help stop you from being an anxious. Irrational angry person like Adam has any culpability here. Why are you involved him this? Here's why and no. I don't think it's his responsibility. But Adam asks regularly in these moments how can I help you? What can I do to make this better? And these are the moments where I'm like. Well you can put your fucking keys on the hook but that's not helpful. No it's not great so I'm thinking what can I do to make this helpful and this is what I realized and I got home and I told him this I know in that moment. It looked like we couldn't find your keys and I left forty seconds later than I anticipated and I lost my shit but this is actually what was happening. I'm good I'm leaving on time. Everything's GonNa be great and then it's Oh shit. I'm not leaving on time. So then I'm going to be in a different traffic pattern. And then this traffic pattern is going to have an accident and now I'm going to get it in an accident. 'cause I'm ten minutes later than I was supposed to be and so now I'm going to be on the side of the road dying because you didn't put your fucking keys on the hook. I put my keys on the hook. I shouldn't be dying on the side of the road. This completely irrational thought pattern. It took me a minute to realize it. But that's really what happened. I was worried because I left four seconds later. I'd be different spot on the freeway than I was supposed to be. That was GONNA be the problem spot and something terrible was going to happen because I didn't leave when I thought I was supposed to leave. You became a victim of catastrophic thinking. It's where you played out the worst possible scenario in your own mind and then responded to it as if it actually happened. Yes one of the things that helped me really early on with catastrophic thinking is it can go the other way right. You can decide that. Oh my God. Atoms saved your life. If you would've left on time you would have got run over by a bus but because you left forty seconds later you were in a different traffic pattern. You're on the freeway at a completely different time. So now that bus when it changed lanes. Your car wasn't there. You are alive today. Because Adam didn't put his keys on the hook that is just as likely as a scenario as the one that our brains give us except that the ones that are brains give us their almost universally negative but you know what they both are false. Not Reality didn't happen. Untrue completely tiredly made up no. That's totally right. It is catastrophic to the worst possible degree right literally. Forty seconds difference and I'm dead on the side of the road in this scenario also like I couldn't reach my phone like I went really into it really far and I came home and I explained this to Adam and he looked at me like first of all. You are fucking crazy like literally. How did you get there from my keys are not on the hook and it was like this is what anxiety does to me right like? I get anxious about what's supposed to happen and then when it's not happening I go immediately into a deep dark hole. One of the things that we love about our spouses of course that they ask US follow up questions that they try to understand and I sincerely hope that all of our listeners have someone in their life to help them manage anxiety mental illness. Depression bipolar schizophrenia. Whatever I know that many people don't but if you get somebody that wants to help you you have to take responsibility to train them. You become their sense a and they are your mental illness Ninja. Yes something like that. Listen it was much cooler in my head. Jackie but go with it. Adam was nice enough to ask and I know you made the joke you wanted to say. Put Your fucking keys on the hook. But you didn't because you want. Add them to be able to help. So you've tried to explain it to them. You have explained it to them because they answer makes you look fucking crazy. That's a really weird thing to think. But what advice did you give Adam to help you? Because I know that you didn't just say Oh Adam I'm going through this crazy anxiety catastrophe everything and I'm just I'm just nut so just tell me to calm down immediately. Will that cannot be what you did. What did you actually do? What worked two things in this scenario? One I did not say that at all. I kind of wish that I had though just to see the look on his face. In this scenario I found the words to explain exactly what was happening right because I've said to him multiple times. Oh It's my anxiety you can tell that I'm anxious. I'm mad right now but it's just anxiety but I really broke it down into like it's not just anxiety. It's me literally catastrophe. Dying on the side of the road. That's why I got upset so I think if you can dig deep down and really picture what your anxiety is telling you and you can verbalize that to somebody. I do think it helps because it puts your crazy in front of somebody else which feels vulnerable but also I think teaches them why. It's so bad it really shows them what's happening in your head and helps them hopefully understand at least a little bit and it's honest. Yeah there is a freedom in telling somebody what happened and being aware that it makes you sound ridiculous or insane or crazy or nuts or whatever word we WANNA use. But you're admitting that you were wrong right. You are admitting that what you did was wrong. Yes I'd like to think that you're apologizing for it. I don't WanNA put words in your mouth there Jackie. I did apologize numerous times. We'll be right back after these messages. Interested in learning about psychology and mental health experts in the field. Give listen to the slang central podcast hosted by gay powered visit. Psych CENTRAL DOT com slash. Show all subscribe to the Psych Central. Podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better. Health Dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days? A free therapy to see online. Counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych central. And we're back talking about anger caused by anxiety. Everything that we've talked about up until now was sort of making amends after the fact explaining what happened after the fact. Did you get to a conversation where you're like? Look the next time this happens. It would be helpful if you could try to do. X. Like are you working together to try to prevent this from happening in the future? A little bit. We're not great at it. Most of the stuff that would make. It better is proactive approaches. Not Reactive like put your fucking keys on the hook I love how this is still Adams. Faults write my. Why is the proactive approach? Not Care that the keys weren't on the hook because I have to be on time right. You have to be on time. But why is the proactive approach? Not Leave two minutes earlier so that you have a built in one hundred and twenty seconds to find Adams keys that you only need forty seconds to find well because what you may not realize that in this scenario I am already leaving at least fifteen minutes earlier that I need to be leaving but if for some reason I don't leave the door until ten minutes before I need to be leaving them late right again. These are not rational thoughts gave. This is irrational shit. And it's the unexpected right. It's not so much that Adams keys weren't on the hook but they were on the table. It's that they weren't on the hook and they weren't where he said they were so then it was now they could be anywhere right that we just freaked out. And what if we never find them? And I'm stuck here forever and I don't go to therapy and then I'm a disaster. This is how it goes. So I'm GonNa give pushback though that it seems like your solution to this. Problem is not for you to make changes but for Adam to make changes like that can't be the takeaway. Jackie honestly part of it is on him because there are times when we leave the house together and I'm like we have to leave at noon. We have to or otherwise I know in my head. I'm going to have a meltdown because we're late. And he'll like wait until eleven fifty nine to put his shoes on. And then I'm already like where got abby late right so these are moments where I'm like. Hey you know that I get very anxious when we don't leave on time so if we could work together to really leave on time that would be lovely right so some of this is teamwork in that. We need to make sure things are where they're supposed to be and or we leave when we say we're going to our Jackie but all of this is predicated on the idea. That your spouse your family members what to help not. Everybody has that. Some people live with their roommates and the Roommates. Not Their mom. Dad Doesn't Love Them. It's not their spouse etc and that person is like look. I'm sorry that my keys weren't there but this is your problem. This is completely your problem. I I'm not gonna live with a crazy person that does this. What advice do you have for them? I mean you're lucky you live without him. What are the rest of us do we? All don't live with Adam. I know I'm so lucky. I live with Adam the other thing that I do. I'm not great at it but I can do. Sometimes I have learned ways to talk myself down slash self soothe. Whatever you WANNA call it. Sometimes it is very silly things that feel stupid to say you feel like such an idiot when you're trying to self soothe but one of the things that I learned in therapy was essentially to just tell yourself that you're safe and you're comfortable. Just keep repeating like in a circle. That like I'm safe. I am comfortable. I'm happy a lot of these effort missions. If nothing else it distracts you from the anxiety. That's circling around your head. I still have an issue where I feel like an idiot saying these things allowed so. I don't do that one very often. What I do is I kind of lean into the anxiety where I go like. What'S THE WORST CASE SCENARIO HERE? And then try to work myself back from it. If that makes sense yeah while you're describing his chain analysis it's where you get yourself to the worst possible scenario and then you go back to the second worst possible scenario and then the third and you're kind of moving yourself all the way back to where you are now and when you put all of those things you know in your brain when you analyze them one at a time you see just how many steps are between where you are now. And where the worst case scenario is that makes you feel better. I took the Liberty Jackie of getting on the Internet and searching for ways to calm anxiety and the first one right up at the top was leave early. So you've kind of messed that up. Because you're leaving early and you're still panicked. I understand but I guess I just want the audience to know that leaving. Extra time is something that works for a lot of people. They're not as worried about being late if they just leave fifteen minutes early for everything because the leader get their fifteen minutes early. Which case. Hey use your phone in the parking lot. Stop and get a cup of coffee. Who cares or they have the fifteen minutes to be late because of the aforementioned train crash on the freeway I guess yeah who put that train on the freeway. I don't know but you know it was a terrible idea other examples. They gave our the affirmations. I'm going to be okay. This is not a major setback. This is not a big deal counting to ten breathing exercises the one that I liked the most and one that I use and I I did not even realize that this was an anxiety. Technique is fidget choice. I carry a little fidget toy. I bought it off the Internet. I think it was like six bucks. Keep it in my pocket and when I'm really really stressed out I pull it out of my pocket and I just start playing with it just right there. Because focusing on that little toy moving it around spinning the little gears the buttons the different tactile feels even the way it kind of links together. It's very soothing to me you can also do this with pictures on your phone. You know. Look at pictures of your last vacation. I know I tease you. Because you have you addams wedding picture as your screensaver on your phone but you know I imagine. This helps reduce anxiety. Another thing that I do a lot when I'm just anxious as I meditate and it really works well for me but when I am angry because of my anxiety. I'm not going to meditate. I can't focus. I gotta be angry right. So for me. Some of the self-talk because it redirects the thought process. This didn't work. In the scenario. I gave you with the keys on the hook because in my head I was already late. I wasn't late but in my head was late in these other scenarios. When I'm not feeling like I'm GONNA be late. I'm just really anxious because we're not leaving on time. I give myself moments to really walk through it and be like this is not so bad. You're going to be five minutes late. It's GONNA be fine talking myself down. It didn't work this time because I already felt like I was dying on the side of the road before I even left the house but I do work really hard to internalize talking myself down to the point. Where like this is fine? You know this is fine. This is not going to be a big deal. Jackie you've kind of hit on a chronic problem with self soothing. Oftentimes we start at too late. We wait until the anger kicks in before we pull out the fidget spinner before we look at the picture before we do the affirmation before we count to ten before we are aware of our breathing in practice. Some sort of mindfulness. We have to get better at doing it too early. Because what would be the bummer. What would be the bummer? If you're like okay. I can't find out on skis. I'm going to ten right now. You didn't need to count to ten so I mean like what the horror. Oh my God you counted to ten or you told yourself you're a good person or are you looked at a picture on your phone that made you happy. Know How dare you? How dare you have an unsolicited unwarranted moment of joy? We have to give ourselves permission to use coping mechanisms before we need to Co pray. They can be preventative. So many people want to whip these things out after the tiger is out of the cage. That's not what we should do them. I definitely agree and I think that in some of these scenarios where like I leave early. That's my attempt at being proactive. When something comes up unexpected like keys on the hook where you can't predict it. That's when I think you need to know it works for you. Is it self soothing via talk? Is it meditating is accounting like what is the reactive thing that is going to work for you and just know it? Have it in your back pocket? Because what really sucks is being this person apologizing for it all the fucking time right being like I know that shitty sorry Hey this happened yesterday. I'm sorry again. I couldn't figure out how to talk myself off a cliff so I yelled at you. That's not a fun place to be so it's much better to know what works for you and try to remember to use it because being a. Dick is not fun for anybody. Jackie all I know. Is that for Christmas birthdays. Anniversaries any gift giving holiday. That happens between Gabe and Jackie. I am giving you an atom an extra set of keys to Adams car. You're just going to be drowning extra keys because honestly at this point in the show if all of the audience is just not like you know. I have two keys to my car. Why do they only have one? I don't think they're paying attention. He didn't know where his spare set was. I'm just putting it out there. Thank you for listening to this episode of not crazy wherever you download the podcast please. Rate Review and subscribe shares on Social Media. And your words tell people why they should click on and listen to us can always email us show at seic central Dot Com. Tell us what you like. Tell us what you don't like or tell Jackie where she can buy a third set of keys for atoms car remember. We always put outtakes after the credit and we will see you next week. Zia You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies official website is like central dot com slash not crazy to work with Gabe go to gain power dot com to work. The Jackie Goes Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels. Well ask Gabe. Jackie recorded episode. Live at your next event. Emails show and Psych Central Dot Com for details. Okay you. We're back discussing anger and anxiety and we're back talking about anger and anxiety and we're back talking about anger caused by anxiety. We're back talking about how Jackie loses her shit for no fucking reason on her poor husband. We're back discussing whether or not Adam should leave Jackie. Hey we're back discussing. Why Adam is too good for Jackie and we're back discussing. Why Jackie and atom should get like forty seven sets of keys? Okay I'll do once.

Jackie Zimmerman Dot Adam bipolar disorder Gabe depression Jack Zimmerman Cincinnati Jacquie Kristen Disorder murder Zion Howard Dick Adams
Anger, Rage, and Mental Illness

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

22:16 min | 8 months ago

Anger, Rage, and Mental Illness

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Welcome to not crazy. I'd like to introduce my co host. Jackie who Who Lives with major depression and I would like to introduce my co host Gabe who lives with bipolar disorder? I feel that I was more excited that you have major depression than and you're excited that I have bipolar disorder. I feel like there's a really good joke about bipolar in there. I don't know what it is. Oh there are so many there are so many. I'm so happy to be bipolar. No I'm not. Yeah that's it that's you're not even GonNa Laugh because that made me angry. Jackie it makes me angry. It makes you won't laugh at my joke. Well it just so happens that we're talking about anger today. I think that anger is one of those misunderstood emotions right. Everybody in America wants anger to go away like we. We don't listen to the angry masses and were uncomfortable when somebody gets angry with us and we want them to calm down like anybody ever said that to you and you're angry but there's no faster way to make somebody not calmed down than to tell them to calm down and this is just regular everyday anger that everybody gets that webster defines as a strong feeling of annoyance displeasure or hostility stability according to them. It doesn't sound that bad. It doesn't sound that bad to be you know angry. The reality is that anger does serve a purpose best. If you get angry about a social situation that can really be the spark that makes you change that social situation. That makes you fight. Wait for a better life for you and your family or for people who have been put upon in an unfair way I think every social social movement ever has started with anger. That anger is justified and can lead to real positive outcomes. The kind of anger that I want to talk about is the anger that isn't rooted in reason. I WanNa talk about anger with bipolar disorder. Because I was angry with things that didn't even exist that I literally made them up in my head and was furious about it. So what do I do with that. I can't change it. Never happened. Happened to begin with one of the things that I think is really interesting about this topic and something that I'd like to dive into as somebody who does not live with bipolar. Disorder is a little bit of the difference between bipolar anger and regular will call it regular anger not mental illness associated anger but specifically like what you just said it was. I made it up. It wasn't real but I feel like even people who are not bipolar. Make up things that make them furious. So can you give me a rundown really quick about like what is the difference. What makes bipolar anger bipolar? Anger and what differentiates it as longtime listeners. Of the show. I love to say that everything exists exists on a spectrum rate. There's the typical spectrum where you're experiencing anger that's normal. There's also the typical spectrum of say sadness right you know. Sadness can lead into depression but depression isn't sadness and sadness isn't depression so I really wish that we had like a better name. Maybe instead of calling it bipolar anger. It should be bipolar rage. which because that's really what we're talking about? It's this point where you have just lost all sense of reality and context context and when I say a loss of reality. I don't mean you're hallucinating. I mean the thing that you're mad at doesn't exist but here's where it gets. It's tough it exist to you. Your perception becomes your reality. And you're fighting against something that isn't real. It's frankly scary. Okay now that I feel like I totally understand what you're saying. Not really that as an over exaggeration. But can you give me an example like can you tell me a real alive tale of Gabe having uncontrollable anger about a thing. That was either eight not real or be maybe not a thing that was big enough to warrant the response you gave it. I was very fortunate to start my career fairly young. I had a high paying job right out of high school when I was nineteen years is old and I got a higher paying job when I was twenty and I got a really high paying job at twenty one it was. It was great to be in the computer world back before for the bubble burst and my employer did some stuff. I didn't like I do not have the ability to look backwards and decide if my base level of anger was reasonable. Let's say the what my employer did was wrong. My response to that was not reasonable. What happened what was the catalyst? I was contracted attracted to run their network and they added something in. They wanted me to provide a higher level of phone support to the customer than I was originally hired hired to provide. I didn't WanNa work with the customer. You think that people don't understand computers today in two thousand twenty. Yeah people really didn't understand computers back back in Nineteen ninety-seven and pushed back and they said tough. We're paying you have to do it. So yeah I I started off small by bitching a lot and then I tried to get everybody to do a walk out and quit if we didn't get our way kinda strike kind of thing and that didn't work and then I sent an email to the entire company all thirty five thousand employees. He's What did it say it contained a lot of you know fuck us and kiss my asses and I quit and this is bullshit shit and you can't treat me this way and I am a person and I have rights and I do know that my response was absolutely ridiculous? They have every right to order me to do something just like I have every right to quit if I don't WanNa do it. I didn't need to involve an entire fire company across multiple states. So then what happened. Oh I got fired fired hard like so hard like I did quit so I was quitting anyway but I sent that email in the morning and a couple of hours later I got a talking to and I was like hey I quit already. I put in my two weeks just like in the email and they're like yeah we don't we don't need the two weeks were were good now. Wow Okay so gave today looking back on fuck you e mail sending Gabe of yesteryear. was there anything someone could have said to you. In that moment to the de escalate to prevent the email sending not a thing my supervisors tried to work with me. When I told all of my employees hey we should strike Mike? We should threaten to quit. They were all pissed off to there was a decent level of of anger at having to do this extra work. None of US got into back end and network support so that we could work with customers. Who would say things like? What's a node? Why won't this work? We spent a lot of time explaining terms to people before we actually got to the solution to whatever problem was it was. It was a nightmare. None of US wanted to do this job. They were all angry. I just took it as a personal attack attack. It just escalated and my wife tried to calm me down. My Dad tried to calm me down at. My Co workers tried to call me down. My supervisors tried tried to call me down. I actually acquainted myself to like the civil rights movement where I had to stand tall and defend my people. This is just a level of nonsense and ridiculousness that I am frankly ashamed of and I don't know how we got here. If you're somebody in this situation how how do you identify the the moment where you're going to send the email. Nobody else can de-escalate you and you're ready to do this like potentially career sabotaging moment element or relationship sabotage. Something terrible. How do you identify it and not do it? I'm going to split that question up and make it easy on your Jackie. You're a self off employed businesswoman. You have customers. Let's say that one of your customers ask you to do something unreasonable for an amount that you're unwilling to do it for what would you do. Say now okay and the customer said well. If you don't do it I don't want to work with you and you would say bye. Yeah would that be the end of it for you. Yeah would would you send anybody e mails and try to close down that person's business now would you consider it a business disagreement and move on or would you be plotting a social media campaign to take out their bakery now done end of story. Yeah because that's how a reasonable person reacts which you go out with your friends and Bitch yes probably. Would you complain to your husband that you know. This customer is a dumb ass and they're gonNA come crawling back. Yes if I'm feeling extra Sassy yeah and maybe for the first couple of nights you think. How did I get in this situation? Like what made them think that I would do this thing for this little money or you know bit on one hand. You're venting your machine it around in your brain but it's also sort of productive right. How can I avoid this situation in the future? It kind of follows this pattern. I yes you're pissed then you're complaining then you're trying to think of what you could have done to avoid it and then you try to think of what you can do to avoid that with other people which is very productive very proactive active. Yes that makes total sense. That's follows a very productive way to handle anger and a stupid situation. People like me get stuck on number one. We never leave number one the insult the impact. The how did this happen. The I I am going to get revenge against you for having the audacity to make me angry it never ends and in fact it starts to take on on a life of its own. See I they asked you to do something you didn't want to do it. They didn't pay you enough and you separated like those are the facts right but then the reason that they ask you to do it. It is because you have red hair. And they're blonde. Oh my God that's why they did it. You know what that company is filled old with women and and I'm a man. They hate me because I'm a man. There's no proof of any of this. You start to then seek it out so you know. I'm a man so Mike Google the Internet powerful women being mean to men and all of a sudden. I find a community because the Internet has everything I just start to play in that sandbox and what originally happened is a business person asked a business person to do something. They didn't come to terms and they separated and now here we are were. I've decided that I have been discriminated against. There's no fact back that up but I'm ripe for the picking. I am just right for somebody to convince wants me of this. We'll be back after these messages. Interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field giving listen to the psych central podcast hosted stood by gay powered visit psych central dot com slash. Show also subscribe to the Psych Central podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better health dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all councillors license accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential `confidential schedule secure video phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often costs less than a single traditional face-to-face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days. A free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych central. And we're back talking about being pissed off. Okay I can see the escalation I can see how most of it is probably rooted in some some form of truth like you said right. It's not like you completely made it up. It had a catalyst however as you've already stated the last time this happened was like fifteen years ago. I can and see how the rage can build. What do you do now to prevent that? How is it different now? Somebody in the audience is living with bipolar right now. They are experiencing these kinds kinds of like moments of bipolar rage. How do they handle them? Step one is treat. The underlying condition bipolar rage is a symptom of bipolar disorder. It's no different from mania or hyper sexuality or depression or suicidal thoughts or grandiosity or psychosis. This is all part and parcel of the same issue. The reason your carpet is wet is because your house is flooding stop. The flooding received the waters dry the carpet. And that's that's where the show has arguably boring answers get help seek therapy find out what works for you and be brutally honest with the people around you. I had to tell this story too many people and it's easy now because I've told it so many times because I'm living well but when I was unemployed had no no money and I had to say to somebody. Hey the reason that. I'm struggling to pay. My bills is because I sent an email to thirty five thousand people telling them to go go fuck themselves. Yeah if feels really stupid like nobody's on my side everybody's like wow. I'm surprised you didn't get prosecuted. You idiot that's not an unreasonable response. I still can't get over the email I like really would love to see a copy of it which is neither here nor there. It's just a fact of that. I would really love to see this email. I I would like to see a two honestly uh-huh and frame it is like your Jerry Maguire. Who's coming with me moment? It really was like a show me the money kind of thing. I felt that kind of a power in what I was doing. That's how it felt that is delusional. That's not what was happening. That's just how I felt what was is happening. And that's the difference between anger and bipolar anger. Even people with anger issues they. They're still rooted in some sort of reality. And you ask what at somebody with bipolar disorder with anger should do yeah. They should get treated for bipolar disorder. They should go to therapy. They should take anger management classes if you are a person who has a lot of problems with anger anger and you don't have bipolar disorder. You don't have an underlying severe and persistent mental illness. The first thing that you need to do is acknowledge that this level of anger and and hostility and rage is hurting you. It is hurting you. It is also hurting the people around you but maybe you don't care it's hurting you. You walking around with this level of anger is tearing you apart from the inside for no good reason and we'll and it also sounds a little bit alike when you've talked in the past about being manic. How you're living in it? It's great but then there's aftermath that you have to deal with where where maybe when you're feeling bipolar rage. You are rooted in truth. You feel like this is the only path forward and then I would assume I'm a day later two days later when you don't get your first paycheck. Maybe maybe not the smartest decision I have ever made. Yeah and we've table this with a job union. I didn't have to apologize to thirty five thousand employees. They got their revenge rather swiftly by no longer having to pay me or deal with me or work work with me anymore but then I think about all the friends I told off. I think about all the romantic relationships that I ruined. I think about my second wife who I got so angry at her. I don't even remember why it was so insignificant that I do not remember what I was angry about but I screamed I hate you I told my wife I hated her because she did something. And I don't even remember what it is and that's really the key message right. I remember member screaming. I hate you but I don't remember what I was angry about. And that's GonNa live with me forever. I'm that Guy I am the guy who screamed. I hate you at that my wife that is who I am. You should defend me and say that is who you were because you got help etc like. I wouldn't leave them hanging there. I want to do that. I will just say that like sometimes you say things scape and it is just sort of like the reality that falls over yeah. It does. Leave me speechless each of us. Because I'm just trying to like live in that moment of the interaction between you and your wife at the time and it is overwhelming to think of what that must have felt like truthfully how far you have come of like things that you've done and things that you've said we've already established this level of bipolar rages. Not really something you see anymore or have not seen in a while. Oh you are in treatment. You are doing well. Hopefully that's something that kind of stays in the past and I do believe that it will. I've been married eight years now and I. I don't have this issue with Kendall. Kendall got the best version of Gabe that ever existed. Kendall has the best version of Gabe that has ever existed. But they're still somebody's. Somebody's walking around that. Got The worst version of Gabe. But you're right our worst moments no more define us than our best moments define us. We're sort of a hodgepodge of all of it. Rate the good the bad and the ugly make us who we are. And it's one of the reasons that I do this show. It's one of the reasons that I talk so openly about it because after I did these things there was the next day and there was a next week and there was a next month and there was a next year and I'm glad that I did all the right things to get through it and I want other people to know that they you can do the right things to get through it and then they just oh people like a lot of apologies. My apology tour was just so incredibly humbling bling. It really was I. I am fortunate that my family is who they are. You know they they suck. Don't don't get me wrong. They're awful people. We don't agree on politics politics. We fight about music. My Dad Loses Shit over a one sauce at a restaurant. Seventy dollars filet. Which makes me when I take my head and pounded on a table? All but they're not one iota ashamed of their children. That's a good trade for me and it's not something that every person has. I didn't have to ask for forgiveness us because they already forgave me. I'm lucky to a certain extent. Though what you do at a certain point in your life if you are able to grow from it learn from it seek treatment after it get better or whatever it is. We shouldn't be persecuted for things. We did thirty years ago. If we have made efforts to correct the behavior you know I was probably a mean girl to someone at some point in my life. There's a high likelihood if that's the only interaction they've had with me. That's who they think I still am but I'm not. I would like to think that we can look at each other and see that growth is possible in other people. Maybe complete change is not possible but growth in evolution is as possible if we can't change no point listening to the show if we can't change. There's no point in going to therapy if we can't change there's no purpose for any of this. I believe that we can all change. We can all be better people you have to do. It and an apology isn't based on your feelings. It's based on the other person's feelings. The apology is not supposed to make you feel better. In in fact the majority of apologies made me feel worse but they made the other people feel better and after a couple of days that made me feel better. It's not about you. It's about them. If you're going around apologizing so that you can feel better. You're doing it wrong. You're just doing it straight up wrong okay. So if I were to summarize this episode I would say eh one bipolar anger happens to. It is preventable and avoidable with treatment. And see if you do have a moment where you go back and do these things. Don't forget that you can totally move forward. You can move past it but you also have to be willing to acknowledge what happened and a Lotta Times. That means apologizing. Just because it's in the past doesn't mean that the future can't be better but you've got to take proactive action to make it better. Radical honesty is a thing radical real honesty radical candor all the radicals. I am in supportive because I think that is where we become vulnerable and I believe and I have learned in therapy when we're vulnerable. That's when we grow the most and speaking of radical let's talk about you are radical fans. We need a few favors from you. That Jackie and I would appreciate completely and entirely entirely one sheriff's on social media and in the description. Tell people why you like the show and why they should listen to it to wherever you download this podcast. Please subscribe use your words and tell people why you like it. When you rank and rate US finally stay tuned after the credits because you know what's there awesome stuff? It turns out Gabe Gabin. Jackie make a lot of hilarious mistakes. Sometimes we also dropped wisdom there. We will see everybody next week. Have a great time. What have a great week see you later? I don't know why you've been listening to not crazy. From psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit is it psych central dot com non crazies official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with gave go to gain power dot com correct. The Jackie go to Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels well given. Jackie recorded an episode live at your next event emails show and it's like central dot com for details. Alright yeah welcome to two thousand nine. Ah Fuck Two thousand twenty two thousand fuck. Hey Hey. Jackie asked me what I'm doing this year. What did you in this year? I don't know I don't have twenty twenty vision. Good John. It's a pretty bad dad. Joke for Guys Not Dad. Listen I have a dog. Dog Dad jokes are not a thing. I've never called him a for baby and I've never called a baby a skin dog.

bipolar disorder Gabe Gabin Jackie Zimmerman Dot US Mike Google depression depression bipolar Jack Zimmerman Disorder America webster Kendall official Howard Jerry Maguire two weeks
Incontinence While Sleeping and its Psychological Impact

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

23:03 min | 9 months ago

Incontinence While Sleeping and its Psychological Impact

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard welcome to the not crazy podcast. I'd like to introduce my co host. Jackie Jackie who not only lives with depression but has not seen die hard. Are the two connected. It's your decision and I'd like to introduce my co host escape who lives with bipolar his wife Kendall and has also never seen the movie now and then and I don't know if that's like a generational thing but that was a a pivotal movie in my youth. Nobody's ever heard of it. Like I keep thinking that you say now in leaders the eighties candy because some for now and some for later unlike now where it's just offer now and then you wine no no if you have seen now and then dear listener please let us know comment somewhere right somewhere. Send gave hate hate mail about how he should see this movie with incredibly famous actresses in it. Sure sure I'll check my email. I'll check my email. Okay okay game. Sure Gabe you called me this weekend and you had a very serious tone in your voice and you said that you had something to tell me. What did you call me about out gave? I told you I ship the bed. You did indeed you did and I although very respectful of your situation was thrilled and that you called me because I am the person that people call when they have poop issues. The listeners are probably just now starting to realize that. I'm not using the phrase shit. The bed Ed. I actually shit the bed you did. You like literally and I'm not using literally figuratively. It was a traumatic experience to say the least I have a friend and who is a doctor. She was unavailable which left you and I promptly was like Gabe. This needs to be a podcast episode and I was promptly note because that's just not the kind of thing that you talk about polite society ever at all but I don't live in a place of polite society not to mention as we talked about on the phone. This is something that happens to people. Not just people like me with bowel diseases but this happens to a lot of people in my friends at Google. Lean of this. I was surprised to find out. Just how common this is. It has a million different names from nocturnal diarrhea persistent diarrhea a lot of lot of diarrhea. Of course we've all heard all of the commercials where they talk about a side effect of medication being anal leakage. The bottom Tom Line is is that while horrifying. It is almost routine how often the average person loses control of author bells. And we wanted to talk about this not to perpetually talk about shitting the bed over and over again so if you're listening insofar and you're like wow this episode sodas not going to be my bag hanging there because the reason we're talking about this is because it's so common the effect that it can have on your mental health after her words. And how you navigate that I make my living as people know on this podcast and on the central podcast and standing up in front of the people and talking about all of the things that happened to me because of untreated bipolar disorder. I wrote a book called mental illnesses. An asshole available on my website gave Howard Dot Com. Because I wanted to talk about all of the awful things that have happened to me because of mental illness and then this this thing happened and I immediately didn't WanNa talk about it anymore. I was like no no no. This is one step too far. This is not the kind of thing that you bring up. And that's really interesting to me because people who know my work and you can just do a Google and find. My work would think that I wouldn't be shy of anything. That's kind of how messed up. This is right even a guy like me who makes my living openly discussing things about mental illness and about health and about life if that other people want to sweep under the rug didn't want to discuss it but that's what makes us a great team you see because I shit the bed and promptly till the whole Internet about it and that's very interesting because the reason I called you. Jackie is because of a story that you published a long long time ago that that I found to be stunningly relatable even though it was pre- bed shitting and it was about how you were in a new relationship wasn't very old at all and I was sleeping over at his house and I should the bed in the middle of the night I was horrified. Fide I contemplated just leaving and never talking to him ever again because what is the alternative. It's actually talking to somebody and saying. Hey You guy who thinks I'm amazing. I just shit in your brand new bed by the way brand new bed. It was something I could not even dream a conversation and that was impossible to have so I stayed up all night. I cried and I cleaned the bed. I will come up and asked him to leave to the living room and contemplated all always. He was probably going to break up with me the next day because he was likely just as horrified as I was well he wasn't and he didn't and instead instead he broke up with me months later for a really not because of this and that's important to remember the first shooting. The bed of course is a well known phrase. It just means you you fucked looked up and I have used this phrase probably my entire adult life. I try to run an event and it doesn't go well. Shit the bed I get on stage stage and nobody laughs at any of my jokes. I'm pretty sure that if they had tomatoes they throw them. And I'm like you know. Gabe how did your shogo ash at the bed. It was awful. I I said it about so many people. Jackie we talk about language a lot on this show. You are you bipolar or are you a person. Living with bipolar words words matter we need to change our speech patterns and you and I have long held that look. We just need to talk about this because getting out in the open is what's important and I thought of the phrase shit the bed. Everybody uses it but the phrase Oh you shit. The bed is actually quite problematic. Potentially for people well like you. Jackie people like me now yet. We all do it not to make this show about language all of the sudden but it just shows you that there's just a ton of phrases. Ah have meaning that you don't realize until you realize I thought the phrase shit the bed was just a phrase it had no meaning and it had nothing to do with me now. I want you to know I'm still gonNA use the phrase the phrase the phrase is fantastic and I hope that when people come up to me and say hey gave you shit the bed telling me I did a bad job because I don't want this to be my thing but yeah just it's it's out there now it's out there now. This is something that happens to people. Will you're acutely acutely aware of it. Now right it's personal at this point whereas before it was just a phrase now. It's something that you actually have lived through. That's what made me feel like. This would be a good episode because I have lived this many times but as somebody who does not live with a bowel disease. You've experienced it now. Oh and I think a lot of people who listen to our show specifically those who take psychiatric medications also may experience this because that it is a common side effect of a lot of these medications. So that's very interesting thing that you bring up. I we got to define the word common. We don't want everybody to freak out communist something out there you know. One hundred thousand is common because there's three billion people in the world so the word common can be problematic. I only say that because because I don't want everybody to stop taking their medications for fear of shitting the bet. It's a good point. It's not common in that it's going to happen to everybody. But when you get your medication nation it comes with that little piece of paper. That has a bunch of teeny tiny words on it and it's called the Pi. which is the package? Insert an on that list all the side effects. Wchs everything you could possibly ever know and everybody. I know promptly rips it off the front of the package and throws it in the trash. You could read it. I read them which may be makes me an over over achieving nerd. But I read them. I want to know what could possibly happen and I think if you read yours. There's a chance that side effect is on there and you can see why it would be on in there. I mean if you really stop and think about medication interacts with your body and everybody is different. And our bodies job. The whole reason that we expel L. Waste is to get bad things and unnecessary things away from us so it really kind of make sense that a common medication side effect could be anal leakage or diarrhea or the kind of diarrhea. That happens in the middle of the night. When you're not expecting it and I was really surprised at how common it was and again when I say common I mean it's it just happened to everybody at least once? I thought that I was the only person that this ever happened to save for my friend. Jackie and I was kind of lucky right. And I'm being very sincere zere here because you were open and wrote the article about shitting the bed and because we've talked about before on the show. I've seen your speeches at conferences is where you talk about this illness. And all of the things that you went through and it made me feel not so alone but the reality is most people. Don't know Jackie the reality is this is most people don't know agape most people don't know anybody. A lot of people are managing these things all by themselves. They're managing especially mental health issues especially really mental illness. And they don't WanNa talk about it and I want to be very clear that this is something that is going to happen to probably every adult and when I say every adult. Aw I don't mean every eighty year old. I don't mean every person in a nursing home no we're talking twenty thirty forty fifty year olds. We're talking young people bull middle aged people. It is the body doing what the body's supposed to be doing you know in the most scary and traumatic of ways is true. This could happen to just about anybody for just about any reason. We'll be right back after these messages. Interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field give listen to the central podcast hosted by gay powered visit psych central dot com slash. Show all subscribe to the Psych Central. podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and tax with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central inexperienced seven days. A free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych central. And we're back talking about boot. Uh We're we're talking about shitting. That's what we're talking about and the reason I really wanted to talk about it was not only just to be like. Hey you're not alone shit. The bed twins right but was also because I wanted to say this thing could happen and it could happen to any of us at any time. How do you make this thing not become become a massive trigger to tank your mental health? Because it could if you let it right if you bought into the stigma of the phrase shit the bed. The embarrassment that's associated with the digestive track all of these negative feelings around this natural thing that we do. It's easy to see how that could have a really negative effect act on you and I think that it's important to touch on that because one or a mental health podcast but too because this is something that if it hasn't already happened to you could be in your future and there's nothing that you can do to avoid it. I hate to say it that way but my my my yeah yeah you You know it it. It's the middle of the night. You're just waking up. It's groggy you realize something. Horrific has happened. You don't know what to do because this is not something that people make the game plan for because nobody ever thinks it's going to happen to them and it you know you've got to be practical. You gotta clean this up but then you gotta decide like what to do and as much as I hate to say that we're going to cover you know post Shit self-care methods. I think that we need to discuss it. Because when and if this happens to you what. I don't want it to derail your entire mental health plan because frankly that would be worse. Nobody wants to sit the bed. But that's a one time occurrence. That's something that happens. Opens to you once every day of your life. You're managing mental health and mental illness. And that is like your whole entire outlook and you don't want something that might happen or something that has happened once to become the focal point of your self care routine. Jackie as the experts. What do blue well? There's a couple of different things that I think he should do. especially if we're talking about this in context of likely the cause being some kind of of psychiatric medication the first thing to do will not the exact first thing but maybe after you do some other things is probably to call your doctor. And that's important for a couple reasons one onto report to your doctor that this happened and put it in your file so if it keeps happening maybe you need to reassess your medication. The other reason is because this kind of event and is so under reported it does not become known as a side effect of medications. Because we don't WanNa talk about it so then we don't talk to our doctors about it. 'CAUSE WHOA embarrassing cannot possibly do that. And then they don't know to tell the other patients. This could be to happen too so call your doctor and if you can do it over the phone it feels less evasive. When you're not face to face having this conversation send an email if you have a patient portal? There's a a lot of ways that you can do. This protect yourself potentially help other patients without having to be face to face which I know I have done. It is a very uncomfortable conversation conversation to have even when this is something that happens to you on the regular. It's also important to bring it up to your psychiatric service providers because it might not have anything to do with your medication. It might not have anything to do with your mental health. Might not have anything to do with your mental illness. It could just be bad luck. People do get sick. People do get diarrhea. You decide to eat. Eat at that. Sketchy joined that just open. And you're like hey the prices are good. You get steak for five ninety nine and it made you sick also as we age the foods foods that we can eat and not have issue surrounding really does change. My mom used to say that I had a cast iron stomach. Clearly that is no longer true. Aw the next thing that I would do is find someone you trust in your life and tell this story to just verbal vomit. What happened happened? Get it out of you and then hopefully never talk about it again and the reason why is because in this. Maybe maybe this is just me but if I have have something traumatic and horrifying an embarrassing that happens I want to keep that shit inside. See what you did there horrible Pun. I WANNA keep it inside. I want to internalize it. I'm probably probably GONNA isolate about it and that's not good. I'M GONNA percent rate on it. I'M GONNA keep reliving it. It's GONNA probably have a really bad effect on how I'm feeling about myself. Elf Helen feeling about life. It could really take things bad quickly and I think that by getting it out into the world. It's one of those things that maybe who you tell is like. Oh my God let me too. I totally do that to you. Never know I just think it's really important to share it with someone. Maybe it's your therapist. Maybe that's the safest place for you but I I would not keep this inside. I think to preserve mental health. It needs to sort of live on the outside. I think that's exactly right because I know how I internalize turn allies and catastrophes things. I'm still having arguments with my ex wife in my head thinking what if I would have said this then she would. Who says that than I would have done this? And then I would have won the argument and would always start off this way. Oh and I'm sad that this happened over that time. She said this. Oh I could have said that. Oh I am so angry and it never ends in a good place and when I finally started to talk it out with people one of those people being my therapist. I stopped doing doing that. If you keep something this big in your head you're gonNA keep thinking. Oh my God what. If I wouldn't have eaten this what I would've taken my pills at a different time. What if I would have just woken up? What if I would have and you're GonNa what if yourself to death because there is no end to your imagination and if you are anything like me my imagination is mean to me? I always think about all of the things I did wrong. And all of the reasons that I'm an awful person and as much as I didn't want this to happen and and as much as I never wanted to happen again which is why I'm following up with my doctors and doing everything. I can to make sure that this never happens again. It was helpful to find out how common commonness is. It was also very helpful to find out that more likely than not. I'm not in any danger. The body was doing what the body does. And while it's unfortunate and not happy. It's not necessarily unhealthy. I need to follow up with my doctor to find that out. One hundred percent but for the most part shooting the bed not life threatening much like Bernie Brown who I respect about load says this could create create a shame storm and the problem with the shame storm. Is that if you don't get it out of you and maybe share it with somebody. God forbid it happens again then what do you do do right. You've already created this thing. You can't talk about it already makes you feel terrible happens again and just the potential for the downward trajectory is is huge. So I feel like for you for the people around you for the other people in the world who also shit the bed. It's very important to share this experience. -perience you don't have to do it on the Internet like I did Multiple Times at this point you don't have to share for the greater good in that sense but preserve yourself and make sure that everything's cool and that your mental health is going to be preserved regardless of this incident. Jackie also think it's worth pointing out severe and persistent mental L.. Ness as a cause for incontinence both urination and bowel issues. When I was so depressed I was suicidally depressed? I did not want to get out of bed and even though I knew that I was going to urinate I did not have the strength to move. I just couldn't and I was so depressed I didn't care I would rather other lay there in my own waste. Then walk the ten steps to the bathroom and that was just the reality of where I was. The same thing can happen the other way and when we consider psychosis when you're literally out of your mind when you don't know where you are. This can lead to all kinds of things that aren't desirable. It's not just thinking that you're being chased by people that aren't there. It's also about not understanding the needs of your physical body which going to the bathroom some of those it. It really just is common for many many reasons and the reasons are going to be individualized. I don't think that I can state that enough. I don't want anybody to listen to this podcast and say hey. Hey the not crazy. People said that I did this because of X.. No the not crazy people said. Tell your doctor see your doctor get to the bottom of it but more. We're likely than not. It's not that big a deal. That's what the not crazy people said. Gabe I know that talking about we'll say things of the disgusting nature is not your Forte. You've mentioned that on numerous occasions I think it was really brave of you to call me and to be willing to put this in a podcast and I use the term brave rarely because it's not my favorite term but I do think that it was brave. So if you're feeling the way that Gabe feels or you have shit the bed the way that Gabe did and and I have as well. Let's be real here. If you take nothing away from this episode. Let it be these few things one. You're not alone at least you know gave an I have have also shit the bed to please call your doctor. Make sure that everything is Okay and three. Do not internalize those share it with someone someone you trust someone who will. Oh not judge you and just make sure that you're taking care of yourself both physically and mentally after something like this and hey after you're done doing all of that share this podcast everywhere. Thanks everybody for tuning into this episode. Please wherever you downloaded this podcast give us many stars or hearts as humanly possible and use your your words. Tell us why you liked it. Love something about the show. Hate something about the show. Want to give us an idea or hey just like emailing strangers hit us up at show at Psych Central L. Dot com stay tuned after the credit for an outtake. And listen on a show like this. It's probably going to be a good one. We'll see you next week. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy to work with gave go to gain power dot com to work the Jackie go to Jackie. Zimmerman dot co Noah. It crazy travels well past gave. Jackie recorded an episode live at your next event emails show and Psych Central Dot Com for details. All right. You're ready. I'll do over his back. Yeah I don't know what to say we're discussing. We're back discussing discussing nocturnal emissions. Sounds like we're talking about wet dreams aren't hang on. We're back talking. FECAL Nicholas John. I'm twelve okay. We're back talking nighttime. Diarrhea we're back talking shitting on your wife or your dog like I did. Oh poor puppy dog shit. The wow did did you put him in the Washer. No I didn't do still have that dog I do. He's Blitzen don't tell me all now I can't put the dog it Bristle. Okay Han and we're back and we're back discussing. That is so pitiful. Sounds like you really should the bed on that one.

Jackie Jackie diarrhea Gabe Google persistent diarrhea Jack Zimmerman Kendall depression bipolar Howard Official Nicholas John Han L. Waste Sketchy Helen Bernie Brown psychosis
We're Back: The Not Crazy Episode

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

18:32 min | 1 year ago

We're Back: The Not Crazy Episode

"Ping freezes utterly escaped. Everyone falls. You're listening to a bipolar schizophrenic Anna podcast. They're your hosts gave Howard and Michelle Hammer everybody and welcome to the polar a schizophrenic and a podcast. My name is gave Howard and I'm bipolar high initial and I'm schizophrenic and we're off hiatus kind of there's lots lots and lots of stuff happening in this bipolar life and there's lots and lots of stuff happening in say this schizophrenics go ahead in this schizophrenics life and we had to regroup and revamp and pay attention to just a whole bunch of shit because it turns out as we said in the hiatus data's message making a weekly podcast is really hard. It's much more challenging than you would really think that it is. It amazes me. How many people are like well what you and Michelle just talk for twenty minutes. That's it right yeah yeah. I wish that was just at editing the show making the graphics writing reading the descriptions. Oh my God it was just. How long do you think we spent on the back end for every minute that people actually heard so so much more. I don't even know far too much for too much far too much. That's what I'd say far too much so we got busy. We got overwhelmed and we almost snapped and killed each other but we we didn't we didn't or both live didn't kill each other because we are mentally. Ill believe don't kill right. Michelle has a shirt and where can when you buy them for this shared. I mentally ill. Naito kill at Skip Zvornik. NYC. That's where you can always buy longtime. Listen to the show or like no. Shit Michelle no up already. They're already well aware of that. Stop plugging your website every single time we know this. Michelle shut off aw Jeez seriously shut up so the show is going to revamp in the next week with a new name because we can't call it on my polar schizophrenic and a podcast anymore because our dearest Michelle will no longer be on every episode because she is going off to bigger and better and greater and more kick ass the things that she just has way too many projects and she is annoyed by me and before she becomes a stereotype and stabs me to death in my sleep we we had to move forward Michelle. What are you up to. What are some of the projects that you're going to be working on. Well am working on the movement. I mentally ill and I don't kill. I have a Ted talk coming coming up. I am popping up with the business strong three sixty five. Everything's going on work with Fountain House the Gallery Michelle. Do you have any words of wisdom for the new Co host of the new show so that she survives and doesn't kill me ignore. Gabe don't take any of his advice and when he starts going on like monologues cut them off after the first minute otherwise we'll go for twenty minutes and then he'll complain plane that you didn't ask him a follow up question that's probably because you zoned out in the first minute and then you have no idea what he said for the next nineteen minutes so you can't possibly even ask them the following question because you have no idea what you just said so what you're saying is. I talked too much just a little big. You talk a little little bit too much. Don't you think I have a podcast. I'm a speaker isn't talking in the job of the U- never shut up you. GotTa let somebody in. Everybody will learn learn about sleep hygiene all they need that. Uh Sleep hygiene actually means this. Let me tell you all about sleep hygiene. Sleep hygiene is so great so you paging so what is sleep hygiene in gave well sleep hygiene so by Boise and it's really important because you don't have good sleep hygiene. You're not gonNa have a good day. I've learned so much about sleep hygiene. Would you say that sleep hygiene. Is your least favorite topic. Yes yes what was your favorite topic gave having sex with twenty three people people in a day so you think we should cover hyper sexuality more and the and I don't know I don't really want to hear having sex nasty now. I just thought it was like Oh no you you know my favorite was losing your virginity eighteen times that was that was a good one. That was a good one. I I do feel somewhat bad about it. But you know you can't change the past. You can always look forward then. What a typical answer like yeah. I just got into a car accident with some manslaughter with my car accident but you know you can't went back. You can only four of the person's already dead ahead. No better do better. Every murderer says that you can't look back. You can always look forward there. I killed them. That's in the past to my future. I'm a good person now. Did you do just what if every person that was charged on murder said that on the witness stand that was in my pest. Are you comparing hyper sexuality to to manslaughter. I just like your your reasoning being behind that well that was in the past. You can't change the past or the future. Every murder probably said the same thing well that murdered that was in the past in the present and in the future yeah. I'm not gonNA murder anyone. Remember the time we got in a fight and I was like I'm really mad about. It and you're like game. I said I'm sorry it's over. Whatever listen to the story about the I don't know what is that is the question that I want to ask? You and I'm hoping that we can resolve finally finally on our last pseudo show. Can you please God tell me what is a a young person who gossips oh. I'm a Janta yes so are you because I'm gossiping to you. That's that's true yeah. We're tiny enters were KOGEN. Tas Cohen Says Michelle. I am always going to love you. I think that you are one of the coolest the people that I've ever gotten to work with and I'm looking forward to working with you. In the future. You are welcome to stop by whenever you want. You can come play with my dog. It was seventy five episodes of awesome and frankly I didn't think that a bipolar schizophrenic with our type A. personalities polities and desire to yell and scream a lot would ever make seventy five episodes hats off to you for tolerating me that long seriously all right after the break we will be right back. This episode is sponsored by better health dot com secure convenient and affordable online online counseling. All counsellors are licensed. Accredited professionals anything you share is confidential schedule secure video phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist. Whenever ever you feel it's needed a month of online therapy often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days the free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you better help dot com forward slash psych central. We're here with Jackie Zimmerman who is going to be taking over co hosting duties for Michelle Hammer. Michelle is awesome and Super GonNa be missed and I'm glad that we got to say goodbye and I'm glad that she's going to be sticking around Jackie. How do you feel about following Michelle Hammer. I feel like those are some huge shoes that I have to attempt to fill Michelle shallow great co host and so good at what she does candidly. I'm a little nervous feeling good. You don't need to be nervous you just. Do you remember if anything goes wrong. I'm I'm the only constant must it must be my fault Jackie. Let's talk about you for a minute. Yeah let's do it. I love talking about myself. It is Jack Zimmerman. I don't know that I love because this means. We get to find out together limb. Let me ask more pointed question does Jackie Zimmerman have tattoos. Jaggi Zimmerman has a lot of tattoos. It's alright so that's pretty bad ass. Jackie Zimmerman have blue hair at most times is Jackie. Zimmerman has at least some blue hair some blue hair so this show is now hosted led by a redhead and a blue haired young lady. Yeah we love America with our hair. I like that the show has continued the the old man Young Woman Motif that we had going for all of these episodes like it would have been nice if I could found like a sixty year old woman and I could have been the young one but you know you millennials just everywhere just every we are and we're aging name. I am an elder millennial so I'm on the older aspect of the millennials so I bridge the gap between the oldies like you but also the young ones I I just I have no idea what to say to that except to inquire and I really think the listeners WanNa know Oh. Do you eat avocado toast. Oh do I eat avocado toast. Yeah I make Avocado Toast could live on Avocado Toast Avocado on everything everything isn't that like the true sign of a millennial or pro or con Pumpkin Spice Latte. If it makes you happy spice on but does it make you happy at times. Sometimes it does. I won't say all the time but there are times that I would enjoy. I'm more of a Caramel macchiato kind of person but you know pro or con pumpkin spice condoms. Do we need flavored. Condoms is that don't we have like all kinds of flavored condoms. I feel like this is a little bit out of my wheelhouse. I don't know a lot about flavored condoms. I must have missed that time in college. I guess whether or not you yourself care about pumpkin spice condoms. Do you think the world needs them. I think that if it brings joy to people in this world pumpkin spice your life spice on can spice up your life. I feel like somebody needs to buy that and trade market. That was the spice girls reference. I like how you have to tell people because that's the elderly living the thing like the younger millennials are like what the hell is she talking about. You are a roller Derby girl. I am so I am okay. Ms Should I am kind of on a leave of absence as of right this moment and to make sure that our listeners understand when I say roller Derby girl. I don't mean like Fan. Girl girl goes to all of the whatever they're called when you run around in a circle. I mean like you were out there. Like what was your position. You knocked people over. You got knocked walked over. You're you're just you're just a bad ass. Guy Did all those things I was a blocker which means I did that. I have blocked people with my body and it was fun. It was so fun it's such such a great sport and it's not a bullshit sport. It's not something where everybody just goes out there and flails about like it is an organized sport. There's a governing earning body of Roller Derby. There are leagues in one hundred different countries. I mean it is a super legitimate thing and we're constantly trying to get people to see us as a legitimate legitimate sport and so part of that is having an extensive rule set having safety regulations doing all these things that make it so that way people can't just look at our sport sport and be like Oh yeah. That's like you know badminton on ice. It's not a real thing but explain to people how Roller Derby is nothing like the pop culture reference that I thought it was when I first found out that you were a blocker and Roller Derby like I wanted to know what your wrestling name was so roller. Derby names are still a thing in some leagues. It's like an alternative personality. It's like a persona yeah or like a alter ego. Ha Ha that's it. It's an ultra ego. Were you the rock you the rock. I don't know if I'm offended by that or I think I might be a little bit offended by that. He's a bad ass. He's awesome and he has a lot of to and he's super famous and he's also a big ball. Dude in I mean I'm not big or bald or dude so I mean anyway so when I first started picking. Your name was a really big deal. Is it takes a lot of time to find one. You have to compare it up to a database in our league. You cannot have the same derby name as anybody else in the world so imagine taming your child and having to give it a unique name that nobody else in the world has it's very difficult so derby names are a big deal. Derby names are also one of those things that kind of makes takes the sport not look legitimate so there's a move away from Derby names. Now people on their uniforms are using their last names or their first names but there still is a pretty heavy emphasis on derby names. What was your name. Derby name was Amelia spare parts. A million spare parts says it which most of the time I just was spare parts. It's or sp because that is a long long name. I love it. What does it mean. Why did you pick that name so that was like my fifteenth choice because again names but the reason why I picked that is because the spare parts part of all of this is throwback to all the abdominal surgeries that I've had where I had my large intestine I in my rectum in my appendix removed so I look at all those things sort of like spare things that didn't really need so that's where the spare parts comes in the just yanked him out and replaced him with something and better didn't replace them at all. I just don't have them. This is what's going to be really cool about the show so as longtime listeners know I live with bipolar disorder order anxiety disorder that is who gave Howard is that's who I was on a bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast is the bipolar one. You're not schizophrenic. You don't live schizophrenia and in fact you don't define as having mental illness like severe and persistent mental illness but you're completely in in the mental health issue mental health crisis space and you know a lot about mental health and you've had a lot of physical challenges in your life. Can you tell our listeners what qualifies you to. Co host a mental health show. That's a great question and sometimes I'm not even really sure what I'm doing in here because talking to Gabe. I'll realize there's a lot of things that I don't know about this space and everything that I know about schizophrenia I learned from Michelle on this podcast like this is a you space that I have lived in but not necessarily spent a lot of time learning about whether that's right or wrong it is what it is and part of that is because I have been in distracted. We will say for the majority of my adult life from living with chronic illnesses so I have multiple sclerosis. I had very severe ulcerative colitis which resulted in removal of those things that I told you about earlier so those are things that I thought battled almost died the whole tragic story. All all the jazz and through that process is obviously well. I guess it's not obvious not everybody comes out the other side of that with severe persistent depression but I did because I guess I'm lucky like that so in that whole thing the whole thing of being sick I don't know maybe you feel this way. You kinda gotTa pick something when there's forty things going wrong you pick one on an you're. GonNa Focus on one or two and I chose. Ms And you see when I was very sick and a lot of that resulted in very poor mental health and declining and health and increasing depression and increasing suicidal ID Asians and all of these things and so once my body got healthy is when I started focusing living on my mental health and I have been focusing on that as much as I can given the limitations of my body since then so I have spent a lot of time talking about mental health in terms of mental health in conjunction with chronic illness and how the mind body connection is real and how healthcare and providers need to focus on Matt so I don't know that I'm necessarily qualified for this job but I am passionate about those two things and I have a lot of experience of my own in the last thirteen fourteen years of living with these things and I know a lot of people and I know a lot of people in the chronic illness L. Myspace who deal with depression and anxiety so I have a pretty large repertoire of knowledge on the topic but I wouldn't say that that makes me a we'll say expert. If expert is the right term is expert. The right term probably not not lived experiences a real thing though right and that's what makes this show so exciting your lived experience. Experience is completely different from mine. One of the things that you said is while you were fighting physical health you ignored your mental health and that could have turned out poorly and and while I was fighting my mental health I ignored my physical health wayne five hundred and fifty pounds. I was so concerned about what was going on in my head and trying to stay alive that I didn't give a shit about my body and you did the opposite and there's so much I don't understand and and I appreciate that there's so much that you don't understand and we're GONNA talk it out on upcoming episodes. Now we have to change the name we can no longer longer. Call it a bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast because unless you're willing to do something to maybe give yourself schizophrenia so we don't have changed changed the name you know. I think that if I could figure out how to give myself schizophrenia I would probably make a lot of money because then maybe we could figure out how to undo schizophrenia that that is an excellent point well. You're working on that will change the name. We're not going to tell you the name but next week when the PODCAST launches there'll be a new name a new Co host but the same loud redheaded guy so we will see everybody next week all on whatever the hell we named the show which we already now. We're just start telling you. Ha- you've been listening to bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast. If you love this episode don't keep it to yourself head over to I I tunes or your preferred podcast. APP subscribed rate and review to work with Gabe soon go to gave Howard dot com work with Michelle will go to schizophrenic dot. NYC seat for free mental health resources and online support groups had over to psych central dot com shows official website is psych central dot com slash B. S. P. I could email us at show psych central. Dot Com thank you for listening share wider all right on the count of three. We can stop woo one two three.

Michelle Hammer Jackie Zimmerman Howard Gabe NYC bipolar Roller Derby Skip Zvornik murder Jack Zimmerman badminton Fountain House Gallery Michelle Ted Boise depression ulcerative colitis
Is Creativity Enhanced By Mental Illness?

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

24:42 min | 7 months ago

Is Creativity Enhanced By Mental Illness?

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Welcome to the not crazy podcast. Jackie how are you? Oh I'm doing awesome. How are you Gabe? I am fantastic. Today we are going to. I don't know if we WANNA use debate. Argued discuss creativity and genius when it comes to mental illness. This is a topic that I candidly have not thought a ton about but when I started researching it I found some really interesting stuff and I don't know if it actually supports the concept that creativity and mental illness go hand in hand or if it just sort of says like not really but congrats on being creative. I live in the bipolar space. So I have. I have severe and persistent mental illness and not playing the suffering Olympics with you but you just have depression you know like I'm considered mental illness. You considered mental health. I don't know who comes up with these categories but in the severe and persistent mental illness. Space this idea that. Hey Yeah. You're really really sick. You have a fifteen percent suicide rates. You've you've sat in the corner and pray for your death but hey you're probably a creative genius really gets discussed a lot. It does and what I read to your point of like. I'm Kinda like just depressed and anxious in your super bi polar. What I've read is that in terms of the conversation of creativity and mental illness slash mental health. People who are living with bipolar seemed to be on the top of this conversation or the top of the list where if we're looking for a correlation between mental illness in creativity. It appears that those who are living with bipolar really win. Because they're the super creative ones. This is where I wish. Our show was kind of like a morning zoo show and we had sound effects so that I could just slam about and it was the best one I can say is bullshit. It's bullshit in every imaginable way but I can never convince people of this and one of the reasons that I can't convince people of this is full disclosure. There's a ton of studies that say that I'm wrong. They're just are. There are a ton of studies that say that I'm wrong and people were like Gabe. You Love Science. So why won't you admit that you're wrong? I don't know that you're wrong because I didn't read the study. Is I read the abstract of the studies. Let's be real here. I don't know who's got time to read studies but the studies that I'm reading AK abstracts that I'm reading are saying not so much that having a mental illness makes you more creative. I don't think that that's what they're saying. And I don't necessarily agree with that either with the studies are saying. Is that the people who live with bipolar and schizophrenia. And Depression and anxiety seemed to be drawn to creative careers more frequently. So there's this one from twenty thirteen. It was published by the Journal of Psychiatric Research. And it said that people who make their living either through scientific or creative occupation were more likely to have bipolar or a relative with the condition. When I see that I don't see them going. Hey Oh you're bipolar. Check once you get that diagnosis. Now you're super fucking creative. No they're just saying like you probably have a draw to writing or art or something of the lake and more people. Living with mental illness tend to go that route one. I have no idea. But here's why I have no idea. This is all based on self reporting so it is really just obnoxious. It is absolutely unequivocally obnoxious to think. That defense attorneys can't have bipolar disorder. No I don't think that's what these are saying. They're not saying people who live with mental illness cannot do anything other than be wildly creative. I agree that they're not saying that. But what they are saying. Is that people with bipolar. Disorder are drawn to create a field. But the way they know that is they interviewed all the people creative fields and they said. Hey Jeff bipolar disorder and in the creative fields in the liberal fields. People felt more empowered to say yes then they went over to things like doctor lawyer fighter jet pilot and they asked all of them if they had bipolar disorder and all of them said no because they can't self disclose these are more conservative fields. Where people will not tolerate their mental illness. They could lose their jobs their careers their income their money their health insurance so frankly they all lied. They just straight up lied. What about this another study? And I don't know the year of it because I didn't write it down so feel free to google. This shit was they screened seven hundred thousand Swedish teenagers for intelligence and they found that those who were exceptionally creative. Were also four times more likely to have bipolar. And so my question for you with this study is this isn't self reported necessarily and they were screening for intelligence which to me. I'm going to assume probably incorrectly that it's some kind of like assessment test especially if they're teenagers right. Maybe like math science. The whole jazz doesn't say what kind of Big Bang? I have. No idea what that was and it was continue. Did you just show your age? No that's show just went off the air literally will what's it. It was Big Bang theory. That show sucks anyway. That is horrible. But I'd like to point out. That was not an accurate representation of physicists. But people think that it is just like they think that a lot of these studies are accurate representations of what? It's like to live with bipolar disorder. I'm not trying to shit on your study. I'm really not and I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to shoot on people who are creative but to give the credit to your creativity to something awful. Why BIPOLAR DISORDER? Is shitty mental illnesses. Just shitty there's not like this back end thing you're creative because you're creative. You're awesome because you're awesome. Could you imagine if somebody said this people with cancer are much more likely to be excellent engineers? What what. Why didn't make any sense as nonsense? People with cancer are much more likely to cancer while I can see how if you're attributing the creativity to the mental illness. That sucks right. That doesn't feel good however I don't think that anybody saying their creativity is exclusively because of their mental illness. Maybe it's increased. Maybe it's more vivid or more vibrant or you know you can tap into it better like I have a fine arts degree. I am not creative at all. You're literally a graphic artist right. I am I'm an that's awesome. That's an UNCREATIVE. Graphic artist will. What I've always said is I. I'm really good at practical design. Layouts typography like I'm really good at seeing something for needing it to make sense and to relate information in my classes they were like make whatever you want. Make it Super Fun. I really struggled. I would not a creative person. I struggle to tap into my creativity. If there was a way to turn that button on I would gladly do it. What you were talking about was inspiration. Not Creativity See. I think creativity exists in a completely separate part of the brain. Now going through bipolar disorder. Going through schizophrenia. Going through major depression or I don't know going through any tragedy just a trauma an earthquake or the death of a loved one that can inspire you. There are people who have written incredible books based on something very traumatic. That happened to them. And that did inspire the book but their creativity existed beforehand and then they got inspiration from the negative event. So do people with bipolar disorder. Have a greater source of information. Can they write about things? That are more interesting. The general public. I agree completely but did bipolar. Disorder create their creativity. No they were just creative if they did not have bipolar disorder or any other mental illness. They would be just as creative. They just wouldn't have that thing to inspire them. I don't know if I agree with your assumption. That people who are creative just have it and then they get inspired to use it. I'm inspired all the time. I don't have the follow-through in terms of the creativity and I'm a writer. I write things. People pay me to write things. I don't think that's creativity. I think they go right about this so I don't know that I necessarily agree that like everybody or even just creatives in general are just waiting for that thing to turn them on to write about. But I don't know again. I don't live with these conditions but my assumption again based on science based on what we know the amount of ideas that flood your mind or maybe like having delusions like those things could cause creativity right. I think they could inspire you to write about the things that you experienced when you were delusional your base premise and creativity. I think that's yours and one of the things that you said. That was very interesting. There is that you are a writer and you are creative. But you don't sit down to write. You haven't gotten it done. That has nothing to do with inspiration or creativity that has to do with organization and time management and I think in general people with severe and persistent mental illness are very disorganized. And you've described before your anxiety. Your anxiety is so high that rather than write something or create something or do the dishes. You're in a corner trying to eliminate your anxiety so I do understand that. We're kind of innocent antic argument. But here's the problem that I have Jackie very sincerely. I just don't like it when people are good at something. In fact people are great at something. People are amazing an awesome and they just don't take the credit for it. Are they not taking the credit or is it? The people having these conversations are not allowing them to take the credit. I don't really care who's doing it if you are an amazing writer. That's because you are an amazing writer. It's not because bipolar schizophrenia. And major depression anxiety helped you become an amazing writer. I just think that's bullshit. These illnesses are literally trying to kill us. I just have a problem with something that is trying to kill me and cost me. Marriages and friendships in connections also shows up at the award ceremony. Because I did something creative. It's a bit like having a parent who beats you. That then takes credit for your college degree. It's like you beat him. You're at abusive parent. Go Away he got a college degree in spite of you. Not because of you like I agree with you. If they're saying the only reason why you're good at art is because you're bipolar. That sucks a took all these things away from you. You've had to fight all the stuff blah blah everything you just said but what if you're also a phenomenal painter and you say the silver lining to being bipolar and having all this shitty stuff is that it's enabled me to be an amazing painter. First off how people choose to live their own lives and manage their own experiences. That really is up to them. I do believe very strongly that people have their own right to tell their own story in the way that makes the most sense to them. That said I think they're wrong. I think like an opinion level in the same way that I think that your wrong for liking pineapple on pizza I do not like Pineapple on pizza for the record. But if you did. I would not tell you that you were wrong. Oh you are wrong. I'm sorry if you like Pineapple and pizza you're wrong you understand what I'm saying right. I'm not trying to make it illegal to put Pineapple on pizza. Unlike my co-host Jackie apparently husband very strong feelings about pineapple. Pizza which I do share. I'm just trying to make a point but I think about like things that have inspired me. One of the best episodes of a podcast I ever did had to do with my father-in-law's death and grief and how this rippled through me and my family. It was a powerful episode. It was a popular episode. I still to this day. Get a lot of pats on the back for being willing to so openly. Talk About Death. This does not make death good. It just doesn't a bad thing inspired me? It is true but I'm not going to give my father-in-law's death credits for all of that success. That came from me and how I chose to process it. It doesn't retroactively. Make that death a good thing. We should all not go around killing our loved one so that we can inspire inspired to do the grief podcast or or write the grief blog or give the grief eulogy I just. I think this may be something positive. That comes out of a negative but make no mistake. You made the positive okay. But I'm not even so sure. This is an argument of semantics anymore. I think this is an argument of perspective and I'm going to use a controversial example which is religion. Oh here we go The reasoning is so when you're very very sick if you are somebody who believes in God or a higher being or whatever it's called I am not that person obviously because I don't know what it's called but let's say you're you're a believer in God and you say it's okay right. This is all in God's hands I'm GonNa pray he's GonNa handle it. I'm GONNA be alright. This is his plan and I am going to live my life. How he wants me to. Because that's how this goes and your me who does not have that same faith and looks at the situation. You're in were obviously talking about something bad happening and I almost wish I had that faith because then I would have the reassurance. It's going to get. I would have the reassurance that somebody's looking out for me. I have often said I thought it would be easier to be a person of faith when I was really sick because then I could kind of like wash my hands of it and be like it's cool. Somebody else is driving this train to me. That's perspective will be back in a minute after these messages interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field given listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay powered visit. Psych CENTRAL DOT com slash show subscribed to the psych central. Podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are license accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you better. Help Dot com forward slash psych central. And we're back talking about creativity in mental illness. I am often offered supplements and coaching programs. And CBD oil all to treat my bipolar disorder. Now I know many people who have well frankly fallen for this scam. They have ignored their psychiatrist's advice. They no longer go to therapy. There are no longer taking any formal or researched or scientifically proven medications and instead they treat their bipolar disorder one hundred percent through this coaching programmer. Website or whatever and they are so happy they are just so happy. I mean they're like Oh my God. I got off the medicine. I'm doing an all natural cleanse and for a while they're living great but I worry so desperately about them because yeah for a while. They're doing great. I'm not denying that they're not doing great. They may do great for three months six months a year a year and a half but in the case of bipolar disorder. It's cyclical it's cyclical sometimes. You'll be manic. Sometimes you'll be depressed. Sometimes you be somewhere else on the spectrum and maybe for that year the right in the middle and everything's fine but because they're not controlling the symptoms. They will hit up mania or fall down to depression. It's just a matter of time. It's just a waiting game but for that year their perspective and their reality is that they're doing fantastic and they're doing better than everybody else. That's relying on big Pharma or these unnatural. Poisons you put in your body. I understand that they're happy now but I want them to be happy forever. I WANNA be happy forever so I don't know you're right. It is controversial. I don't WanNa fall down a rabbit hole of defending or bashing religion but just because something gives you comfort doesn't mean that it's right no but again like I think. Your example of taking medication is a little bit different here because I think anybody who is sick in any way shape or form all of us. I think it's human nature to want to find meaning in it you know and I think that the meeting could be because of your religion it could be because of your art. It could be because of the career you have. You want to correlate a meaning to it because otherwise it's just for the sake of shit otherwise. Everything just sucks for. No reason and most of us cannot handle that mentally. We can't process that of why the shit is happening for no other reason. And maybe people do say. I am super creative. And it's because of my bipolar disorder. I can't tell that person at the wrong. If they're seeing the meaning that and that's how they get through their day in their life and they continue to be happy and healthy and productive people. How can you tell them they're wrong? I think that truth matters and I think facts matter it is the truth and the facts support it. I disagree with the findings because of the self reporting nature which I understand is such a slippery slope. Because there's people out there that say Gabe. How do you know you have bipolar disorder because there is no definitive test? It's all self reporting and I hear what you're saying and you're right you're right. I know people who are just incredibly happy and they firmly believe that the earth is flat but I just feel so bad for them I do. The Earth is not flat it is not flat. It's not flat. It's not flat. It's not flat okay. But we know that because of the facts that support that but I think these facts are suspect you're right. I can't say that they're wrong but I do think that their suspect. My fear is that somebody who's newly diagnosed with bipolar disorder or depression or just any sort of serious mental illness will think that they need to find a creative endeavor. Because that's where they're most likely to excel statistically but I know all kinds of people with bipolar disorder schizophrenia and major depression who are engineers and lawyers and doctors and they don't have a creative bone in their body and I also worry about pigeonholing and what I mean by that is I. Do not consider myself to be creative at all. I have not creative bone in my body. Jackie you can back this up. I tried to design a logo for something like these colors. Remember what you said to me now. It was very harsh but but it was ugly. What I created was ugly and I say to people look I have bipolar disorder and I'm not creative at all and they say yes you are. You have a podcast. Well yes you are. You're funny okay we'll bit. Isn't everybody funny? Sometimes now that everybody creative in some way man. I think we're always looking for that link so no matter what we find a way to make somebody with mental illness into a person who is also creative. I disagree because in the research and also in the world generally the term creative is somebody who is a writer. They are a painter. They are fine artist. They do some kind of categorically artistic thing. It's not so much like how do you approach your day? Is it creatively? We're talking literally about the fine arts and that's as a career choice. I still maintain that the data just says people with mental illness tend to lean more towards that way at no point. Does it say if you're bipolar. You should be creative and if you're not you're doing it wrong and I don't think that implies that everybody should be creative whether you have a mental illness or not it's simply stating a lot of people tend to go that route. It's not saying you can't do anything else or you won't be good at anything else. That's the message that I just WANNA make sure gets out there. I know what the data says and I do appreciate data. There's just a part of me that just worry so much and this is my question to you. Jackie now honestly. How do you feel about somebody who gives the credit for their creativity or their intelligence or their genius to an illness that is trying to kill them and that has caused them suffering? How do you feel about somebody? Giving a positive quality to such a negative thing. I would say that scientifically we know that the placebo effect Israel and if that person in this instance is using something like their illness as their placebo as the catalyst as the result it's real for them and if they feel more creative because of their mental illness than that's why they are more creative. It's all how what you believe in. The human mind is annoyingly powerful and again in this situation if the placebo is their illness right and they are like arm so creative. Before I was diagnosed I was not creative at all and now I'm a genius painter. Then that's true for them. Jackie I completely agree that perception becomes reality and if your reality is positive and good than the helmet I to mess with it. I do sincerely believe that. I just want everybody living with mental health issue serious and persistent mental illness to live their best life. And however you arrange that in your mind. I couldn't be more behind. I think that we can both on the same page for that one. Amen listen up everybody creatives. Non creatives agree with Jackie agree with Gabe. No matter what we all need to be on the same page when it comes to subscribing to our podcast please leave us many stars as you feel comfortable with and use your words and write us a review share us on social media. Email us to a friend. Tell everybody about us. And here's a little trick if you email show at psych central dot COM. We will send you not crazy stickers if you pay pal. Us dollar. It's the best deal going. That's not crazy stickers for a dollar at show at central dot com email for instructions. Please stay tuned after the credits for an outtake because it turns out Gabe. Jackie have more to say we will see you next Monday. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups and visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy to work with gave go to gain power dot com to rugby. Jackie goes to Jack. Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels while half Gabin. Jackie recording episode live at your next event emails show and Psych Central Dot Com for details again without the attitude. Although I do like you so much always told me to say it without attitude in like Amazon Person. It just feels so like well. I just fucking it so unnatural. This is so lit all right. This is what sucks about not having an audience if we really did sit in front of an audience every Monday it wouldn't sound unnatural. Yes right if you re frame it that way what is unnatural as you just flat out fucking ignored your audience so and I would wave. That is true. You would wave okay. So that's good we're on board with you would never ignore your audience now. There's no video and we're not in person so therefore you have to acknowledge your audience and the only way that they see them saying but what if I was on stage and I waved because I mute and I can't talk then you wouldn't have a podcast? I mean that's fair but fine.

bipolar disorder Jackie I Gabe writer BIPOLAR bipolar schizophrenia Depression Jack Zimmerman Olympics google cancer AK Zimmerman Dot Journal of Psychiatric Researc Us Jeff Howard
Psychiatric Ward: First Hand Account (Part 2 of 2)

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

28:49 min | 10 months ago

Psychiatric Ward: First Hand Account (Part 2 of 2)

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard hello and welcome to not crazy. I'm here with my co host. Gabe who lives with bipolar and was also the subject of an interview last week on this podcast about what. It's like an inpatient hospital and I'm here with my co host. Jackie who asked me so many questions. uh-huh about what. It was like to be impatient that we had to break it up into two parts like how I blamed you when it was my over talking. That really caused this problem. The last week we talked about experience and this week we're GONNA continue with part two right now but hey if you missed part one you can listen out of order. We honestly don't mind here. We go were you in some kind of. Did you talk to someone when you were impatient. Is Group therapy. Is there one on one therapy issue therapist. John Stamos Lake. It was something I watched recently. I do not recall any of my. My Medical Practitioners Jenner's being exceptionally beautiful male or female. You know scrubs they. They don't look sexy. My doctor was nice. I was in a learning hospital so my doctor had like seven new doctors. And so that's that's just the way that it was though I did have group therapy. How long long was it group? Therapy was an hour to an hour and a half. I'm having a little trouble remembering and the way that it worked in the hospital that I was in that there was one on that was required like optional ones throughout the day. Depending on where you were the one that was required as the only one that I ever went to just in full disclosure Luger and it worked pretty much exactly how you would expect to group therapy to work. It was led by a therapist so it was medical person lead not peer led or or like a where. It's you know. The group manages itself it was led by a medical person at a therapist in this case and there were rules and everybody talked and shared and we all bounced installed each other and we weren't allowed to give advice in that the therapist would help steer US along and we would hear from other people and we would share and then group over. How were you grouped? I honestly don't know I can tell you that there was men and women. There was young and old. We all were there for seemingly different reasons. I remember number when I was there. I was the only person that said. I was just diagnosed with bipolar. A couple of people said depression bet a lot of people were. We're kind of standoffish. They WANNA share it all we you mad to be there or upset if you weren't really engaging let's say were you sort of like I don't I don't WanNa be here. I don't need to be here. This is stupid. I never thought it was stupid. I thought it was so incredibly confusing. It was it. It's unlike anything that I can explain. Were you still feeling like this is how I feel all the time. Why why am I here? was that feeling links. Still kind of resonating. What I was first diagnosed with bipolar disorder? The first thing that I thought was Oh my God. I have to move to a group home. I have to liquidate my assets and I'm going to be institutionalized is for the rest of my life the second thing that I thought is thank God. They caught this before. I hurt my family. I really associated mental illness and violence very much hand in hand. The third third thing that I thought is I'm doomed. I'm just doomed I. I didn't know anybody who is diagnosed with bipolar. who was doing anything? Well and in fact I only knew one person with bipolar at all and that was Kurt. Cobain the lead singer of Nirvana a man who died by suicide. And this is. This is a wealthy man. This is a once in a lifetime. Musical Talent Jalan this is he had number one singles. Yeah you know. This isn't the average person and the dude was rich and he couldn't beat bipolar disorder. I'm slugged from Ohio. I'm not rich families not rich. Frankly we're all kind of a bunch of dumb asses. We didn't even realize anything was wrong but yeah we can beat this. You know this do with millions of dollars. He can't beat him will be fine so I thought I was going to be institutionalized. I thought that I was going to die and I thought that it was a good thing. I didn't murder my family. These these were my. This is my first twenty four hours so when you're in the group therapy and you're you're meeting with John Stamos and you're talking about why you're there. Are you still thinking that. Are you still thinking the same thoughts. Are you still thinking that that thought that you had when your friend brought you there and you really. Why am I here? This is what I think all the time. Time the very first group therapy that I ever went to in the interest of honesty in full disclosure. I actually there was a lot of women in the group and I actually thought. Wow these women complain a lot. That's honestly what I thought I thought wow all of these women are complaining constantly this this is nonsense. The men were all quiet. There weren't that many of us and all of the men sat stoic and quiet all of the women cried a lot and I just thought. Wow this is just this. I hadn't been diagnosed with my polar disorder yet though the next day I get there and suddenly I just have a million questions about mental illness. Because what the hell were you. Diagnosed there. Diagnosing the psychiatric hospital okay so that that makes a lot of sense then. Yeah yeah the day before I went to the emergency room. That led to my inpatient psychiatric hospitalization hospitalizations. I thought that I was fine. Thought that I was normal. Thought that is beyond normal. I thought that I was exceptional or shit. That's kind of deal with bipolar disorder rate. You're either God or of your garbage or you're just inbetween right. This is the kind of messed up part about bipolar disorder. It really is this whiplash effect. I sort of refer to it as an intermittent illness. Sometimes you're symptomatic sometimes. Sometimes you're not and sometimes you're symptomatic this way. Sometimes you're symptomatic that way. And they're they're polar opposites hence the name and a lot of this did go into how I reacted to inpatient hospitalization right. I went in there on suicide. Watch by the time I left. I was stable. I KINDA WANNA focus on that right. Because it was heroin it was terrifying and there was no ping pong table and pop culture. Really let me down on this. Because pop culture always shows up fricken ping pong table or checkers or card. There were checkers and cards. But I wanted the ping pong table trying to play checkers and cards at home and I thought hey. If I'm going to be in the hospital I might as well get a ping pong table. That's fan and I became. I'm very desperate looking for this ping pong table because I needed the world to make sense and I thought okay if I'm in a psychiatric hospital there's GonNa be a ping pong table for me. In that moment. It was the thing that made the world right again it would have balanced everything out. It would have centered me. I would have known where I was. And if I could have just found that ping pong table I would've been like okay. I know what to do play Ping Pong. Well just obviously one piece of information is correct. All all the pieces of information or correct rate isn't isn't that nonsense like like. Oh if one thing is true the next thirty things are true. This is not reality. People people do this that that aren't bipolar and in psychiatric hospitals but I became extraordinarily desperate. I need to be very very very very clear on this point. The nurses had had to come after me. Because I was I was so so upset and like like like finding out your spouse is going to die upset over a ping pong table to this day that this has been. It's been years I am still upset. There is no ping pong table and I have desperately tried to donate Ping Pong. Say You should donate donate one. It turns out that you can't have ping pong tables with their paddles sharp edges and nets cetera in psychiatric hospitals for people who might not be in the right minder danger to themselves or other pop culture really did let us down on that one. Yeah if you think about it for even a minute you'd be like Oh. Yeah Yeah I can. Yeah that's probably about idea okay. Here's another question that I have that I feel like I am wildly off on due to movies. How long were are you there three days because in my brain it's either you're there for a seventy two hour hold or you're there for eight months because the other assumption Russian that I slashed I think a lot of people have is? What can you possibly accomplish in three days? This is a tough one for me to answer. Answer right because there's a little piece of me that wants to say nothing. Everybody should be there for eight months but at the same time you can't just leave. People Warehouse for eight months but some people are so sick they need more than seventy two hours and they're let go too soon and some people can be. Let go in seventy two hours. I believe for gave Howard personally that that seventy two hours was the right amount of time. Because I was in crisis I needed. Stabilized and the seventy two hours was enough to stabilize me and I'm very fortunate I was released to Ooh people who loved me and cared about me. It would just be a few days before my parents came all the way from Tennessee to take care of me and like make sure that I was okay. I had the the woman who brought me to the hospital. Who helped me fill my prescription and made sure that I got set? I had a job so I had money and resources and I was on. FM L. A.. I was able to take time time off work to get better and still have health insurance in an income. Come in. That's like really helpful when you're sick to not have to worry about money and I had short term disability so hey I was covered covered there and then I was moved into an outpatient program. This was great treatment for Gabe stabilize outpatient treatment community treatment and then Um the four year epic battle began. Is this the norm or no. Would you say as a whole we are missing some of these steps for a lot of people we are missing these steps for probably the majority of people. Let's talk about a couple of things that I think are very very important understand one. I was very lucky that somebody recognized the symptoms of suicidality and mental illness to. I was lucky that this person took the time. I'm to help me three. I was lucky that I was taken to the emergency room where they knew what to do and they cared enough to do something about it for. I was lucky lucky that there were beds. Available literally beds available five. I was lucky that I had a pair source six. I was lucky that upon my discharge urge people who were not me took responsibility for me. You'RE GONNA run out of fingers. I was lucky that there was an outpatient program where I could go. Oh and get immediate. Follow up care eight. I was lucky that there was a psychiatrist and a therapist and a psychologist. That could see me within a week. Nine I I was lucky to be in a big enough city. Were all of these resources. Were readily available and ten and this is the big one. I could afford it all. I had all of the money all of the money I could afford. The Co pays the out of pockets. I had insurance. I dumped tens of thousands of dollars into my care and the insurance company even more than that and if any one of those ten things was missing. I might not be sitting here today. So let's rewind for a minute because one of the problems that I talked about that you just mentioned is three or four in your list which is let's say somebody notices it you go to the Er they say yes. There's is a problem. There's no beds. I hear this all the time. Specifically it must be in Metro Detroit where we have a massive issue because no beds. This is an incredibly common phrase that I hear. What do you do when there are no beds professionally? What you're supposed to do is find another the hospital? That has a bed an ambulance over but well. You could convince the person that they're not actually suicidal. You could convince the person that they're going to be okay. You could change your diagnosis to say I think you're just stressed out. You're probably fine or you could put them on a bus. Send them to another county. Tell him to go to that hospital so you could tell them to drive themselves to that hospital you could say I don't know what to do for you. You could ignore them. You could just make him sit into the waiting room and play out the odds that they're just going to get tired and leave life which probably around our five six ten twenty. They probably will all of these. Things happen with with shocking regularity regularity. There's an advocate in Ohio. That calls it Greyhound therapy where somebody who does not have insurance does not have a payer source will show up at a state hospital that's required to take aac people like you know the health center things like that and they will say look. We don't have any beds. They will give them bus pass. They will tell them to take that bus. Pass to the next county over and go to X. ex- hospital and you have to hope person who went to the emergency room because they were suicidal because they were having symptoms of a psychiatric illness who is not in their right mind who is sick you just what a sick a person to get on a bus and go to a different hospital. That's what you did and people are cool with it because after all you can't abuse the mentally ill and you think to yourself. Society doesn't really believe that Gabe you you see the homeless population. Do you honestly believe that all of those homeless people are homeless. Because they're making a reasonable and rational decisions a good good good portion of them are severely mentally. Ill I don't care. We really don't as a society we do not care. We'll be right back after these messages. Interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field given listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay powered visit Psych Central Dot com slash slash show all subscribed to the psych central. podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient convenient and affordable online counseling. All counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and tax with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central. Oh an experienced seven days a free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych. Central we're back talking about inpatient hospitalization and okay. So here's the question. When I was considering trying to find an inpatient place what was happening at the time was I was severely severely depressed? Hi Highly I'd eating on suicide and I had a friend of mine who was calling local hospitals basically looking for a bed. I don't know what that looks like on her half because I wasn't with her she was just calling in reporting back to me because we weren't at the. Er we were calling. We are trying to be proactive if you show up to the Er are you are the patient there. Let's say scenario is hopefully if somebody with you just hopefully and you show up and they say there are no beds and or you call around like I did and no no one anywhere has any beds like as the patient as me. What do you do if you're at the Er you say okay? I'll try this other hospital and hope that the person with you and you are in the right like frame of mind to make that happen or if you're making the phone calls and there's nowhere you can go like what are we supposed to do. That's a really good question and as soon as society finds out the answer for it. I think that people will be better. I can tell you all of the things that I would do because I'm an advocate and and I think that these advocacy points are good ideas. You can call your insurance company. You can demand to speak to a patient advocate. You can threaten to sue. You can call a lawyer you can call all of the other hospitals. You can demand care you can say. I don't give a shit that you don't have enough beds. You can throw your money and your weight and your cloud around you can say listen. I'm a pretty white woman and if you don't give me help I'm going to call the news that you were willing to let me go home and die. There's a true story out there of a really well known own advocate that used to write for the Washington Post and he literally threatened to call friends in the national media if they did not help his son and and they finally relented and said fine will do it and they did it begrudgingly. This dude had to literally be a national journalist with a lot of money to get his son unseen so the bigger question that you should be asking is one will any of these things work. Yeah they might and to does the average person with serious and persistent it mental illness who is probably between the ages of sixteen and twenty four does not have insurance does not have a payer source does not have money. And who is actively sick at this moment and have the ability to fight a multibillion dollar institution to take on doctors and hospital bureaucracy and finally get society needed. Give a shit about them. Here's what really sucks. This show is almost exclusively talking about middle class mental health. Yes and middle-class oh class mental health is just so messed up. It's so messed up. Yeah it is way worse for lower lower income mental health and it's way worse for impoverished mental health and we haven't even talked about the large large percentages of mentally ill people in prisons and jails which I suppose we touched on a bit in the beginning of saying this is your personal experience but it it is worth pointing out that if the system is failing you a middle to upper middle class. I don't know your life but white guy in America in the Midwest in a big city is failing you. It is. Hard to even fathom the trickle down effect of that and to be fair we don't even have to fathom. It's in the news. We see the terrible things that are happening. Even the media is talking about and pop culture also is talking about it in the worst of ways in times so it's not that hard to think about how bad it gets it. I'm having a hard time. Even finding the words to express breasts hearing your experience of being impatient seeing how that can vary for different people but like roughly roughly the same right. Let's say that. And how hard and stressful and probably even like dramatic and traumatic. That was for you thinking about how much worse it can be and how seeing very easily how this cannot turn out this way how it can turn out very poorly. You asked me what it was like to be impatient. It's scary and it's traumatizing and that's okay. Things are allowed to be scary and traumatizing and not be bad. I imagine that being gene apparent is scary. I imagined that your child being sick is traumatizing. That doesn't mean that your children are bad. It doesn't mean that your decision to become come apparent was bad but it does mean that you need to get help for that scary. It needs that you need support for that scary and if something happens with your children that traumatizes you you need to get help for that trauma so that you don't burn yourself or your child for their whole life the takeaway that I want a lot of people to here is that I don't think we address with with people who have been impatient psychiatric hospitals in wards the fact that they were scared or the fact that they were traumatized we say things to them like well. It was for your own. I'm good we say things to them like well. It doesn't matter you're better off now I really think a strong advocacy point needs to be. It's okay that you were scared and I understand. You were traumatized. Let's talk about that. Less of the end justifies the means right and I wanna be I WANNA be fair the ends do justify the means even though I was scared even though I was traumatized even though I had the wrong idea and even though the very first time I walked into a psychiatric ward as an advocate kit and the door shut behind me and I heard it banks or big metal heavy doors. I had an instant panic attack. I broke out into sweat. Wet My heart race. I almost collapsed. It was that terrifying. The person with me realized it immediately. It was like what happened and I was like I was right back there. Let's talk about that. Let's move through this. What can we do? Let's be better. Look what you've become. Let's help and that gave me the appoint advocates say to all of the other people who get out and they're like well I'm scared and nobody cares. I Care I care. Can you imagine if we treated going impatient or treating people with mental illness. The same way we treat physical illness like when you're going into the hospital for surgery where your family is there. Everything is pretty well explained to you you. There is support. There's compassion there's a lot of compassion and everybody understands that this is probably going to be traumatic. Even if it's routine right it's probably going to traumatic. Could you imagine that when somebody went in and they said Hey. I'm feeling suicidal. If the reaction was that strong that compassionate it that educational like that's supportive as opposed to. We're GONNA put you here. It's GonNa be good for you Do what we say. Because that's why you're here and you'll he'll think slater and that's where I want to get to. I just can't imagine telling somebody who's going to have heart surgery says I'm scared about the heart surgery to suck it up this. This is for your own good. Yeah are we go. Those people casseroles we cleared in our houses. We support their families. We wait in the waiting room for them and some people with mental illness. Do you get some portion of this but it's not regular. It's not normal. It is atypical. I want this to become routine. I believe that people with severe and persistent mental on US would have much better outcomes if their trauma and their terror was addressed when they got outs or soon after if it was just just part of the process if somebody said to them what scares you the most and they talked about it and some of that did happen for me. I don't WanNa say oh. It was just horrible. They didn't address anything. People did. Ask me how I felt about it and I had a really good support system. They messed everything up but they were there they were. They're or messing everything up. My father and my grandfather moved my like one hundred and fifty pound television out of my house and into my apartment. This is like a fifty year old and a sixty five year. Old Man watched their twenty six year. Old Grandson sit in a corner crying while they carry this giant television. And that's like real love and support rate. They weren't the family that said suck it up. Get better and do it so I was really lucky but a lot of families would be like look you. You need to get back to your life. You need to help us move. You need to do this. You need to do this. I got really lucky and I don't know how my family didn't mess this up because they just mess everything up but this is one of the things things that they got right and it made a big difference. I think he's things just matter. A lot and trauma is not a bad word and we just so often never want to address people's trauma because we put some sort of moral value on it like if things turn out okay. You're not allowed to be traumatized retired. We saw this with soldiers. Why have? PTSD why we won the war. You lived well yeah we won the war and you lived but that doesn't mean that you can't be traumatized talk is what this makes no sense for a long time. That was our belief system gave. Thank you for sharing that and helping me to separate. Perhaps girl interrupted Gordon. John stamos from reality. I'm a little bit sad that John Stamos doesn't just live in the hospitals waiting for us but that's a whole other thing. Is there anything else that you want to add. Add or anything that you feel that you just need to tell anybody. Who's maybe thinking about this? There is a couple of things I wanNA thank you for asking all of these questions because some of these questions like saying. Hey did your doctor look like John. Stamos where you all wandering around doped up zombies with it sounds stigmatizing right. It's like are you making fun of me and it's really important that when people ask the question that way that you don't jump all over them and say of course not that's not what it's because they don't know and if they're willing to ask you about about it take a deep breath and answer it. That is what you thought was happening in there. And if you wouldn't have asked me you continue to believe that that's what my life was like and we never would have had this moment where you now know that John Stamos doesn't live in the hospital. The more you know rainbow just win win over my head right there exactly and I think that sometimes we shut down the more you know rainbow by yelling at people for asking the question wrong. The next thing I want to say is anybody. Nobody who's listening to this thinking. I might need to be hospitalized but man. He said it was scary. He said it was traumatizing. He said that there were locked doors. He said that they make you go to group. He said that they make you share. These are all true and I want you to have all of the information. We don't sugar coat things on our podcast. It's one of the things that we pride ourselves on. So believe me when I tell you that I'm not sugar coating that it will be okay. It will be scary. There could be some trauma. Hospitals are not fun places uses. Nobody goes to hospitals for vacation. But it can make you better and it did make me better and it was the start of making my life go from daily really awful to pretty decent. I'm a pretty content guy. I've done a lot of really great things and all of that started the day. Hey that I got help in an inpatient psychiatric hospital and that really really is worth it and it's also worth moving away from it and hoping never ever to have to go back again again. So I assure you I'm not bullshitting you when I tell you that. Just because something is awful doesn't mean it's not worth it and that's really what I wanna to leave the listeners with today. I don't WanNa scare anybody away. Jackie that that's what I want to say. I don't want to scare anybody away. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not worth it gave. I couldn't agree more. There are so many things in this world including taking care of yourself your mental health and your physical health that is going to be incredibly difficult but it's also worth it. There's a famous philosopher. I said that if it was easy everybody would do it and I really feel that. That's the deal right. I it was it was hard. It was hard to get well but I'm glad that I did. And and just because it was scary along. The way doesn't mean that it wasn't worth it and I know you feel the same way about a lot of the physical health issues that you've been through I can't imagine having the number of surgeries is that you had was easy but it was totally worth it absolutely. My quality of life is significantly improved. I think anytime you look at a a surgery or right inpatient stay or anything. That looks really difficult. If you look at how impact your quality of life at the end. It's always going to be better. I could not agree more. Jackie this was part are two of two if you missed part one. That's okay. It's literally one week back from this episode and you don't need to listen to him in order just jump back here at out and you'll know everything thing you want to know about Gabes inpatient hospitalization stay. We thank you for hanging out with us. Please wherever you downloaded the podcast leave as many stars as do you feel comfortable with us. Your words tell other people why to listen shares on social media email us to your friends talk about us and support groups. We want the conversation surrounding mental so health to go as far and wide as humanly possible and our longtime listeners. Know if you stay tuned after the credits. There's an outtake usually it's Gabe Jackie shitting the bed. We'll talk to you next week. Happy Thanksgiving you've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with gave go to gay power dot com home to work. The Jackie go to Jack Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels while has given Jackie recording episode live at your next event email show. Oh and psych central dot com for details. Oh It's my turn your you got a set. You're interviewing me. I can't segue into my own interview. I mean you could okay. We're here today to talk to me. Just the Dushi intro ever and we're here today to hear. Gabe story. Wait aren't you gave gain. How do you feel today? I feel great. No sorry real in Voice of reason over here okay. Okay it's like a forty five minute introduction says already like find people. Could we not do this in person. Next time okay.

Gabe Jackie John Stamos bipolar disorder Ohio John Stamos Lake Howard Jack Zimmerman Jenner People Warehouse Kurt Washington Post Tennessee Gabes murder Detroit US heroin
Abandoned: Loss of Friendships

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

27:56 min | 11 months ago

Abandoned: Loss of Friendships

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard pay attention. Not Crazy fans right now not crazy listeners. Get twenty five percent off com premium subscription ADT COM dot com slash. Not Crazy that C. A. L. M. dot com slash. Not Not crazy forty million people downloaded. Calm find out why at calm dot com slash not crazy. Hey everyone welcome to this week's episode of not doc crazy. I want to introduce my co-host Jackie's Zimmerman. She's married to an inspiring rap artists and she lives with depression. And I would like to introduce you to my co-host gave Howard who lives with bipolar in his. Also my husband's number one fan. I love him so much. He's a really good person and I like to brush my teeth and go to bed on time. It's really cool. It's a good song. You should check it out on Youtube. What what's his? What's his rap? Name Ben Homes. It's not under the. I think it's on my youtube rewinding to let everybody know what we're talking about. We made a rap video for my nephews fifth birthday and it is on Youtube. It's called called about to be five if you'd like to look it up. It's a jam it really is. It is really really cool. One of the reasons that we're talking about our spouses so much is because one yeah. Christmas is coming and we want to make sure that we do well this year but two because people tend to think about romantic relationships as the only thing that can really cause as you like abandonment issues or trauma or your parents can mess you up. Family can mess you up and love can mess you up. But but then there's this whole seedy underbelly that can mess you up and that's our friends. I couldn't agree more in. Actually I have been talking about this in therapy a lot because I have a few friends or I guess former friends now want womp who were like family or really close. These were people. I developed very very lengthy intense in depth friendships with who I loved very much. Who are no longer my friends and I have had a really hard time dealing with this so this is something that hits home with me right now a lot? There's many ways that friends can exit our lives in some of these things are healthy. I'm not friends with the people that I was friends with in kindergarten. I'm not friends with the people that I was friends with in middle school and honestly I'm really not friends with the majority of people that I was friends with in high school. Relationships relationships tend to kind of go with your station in life. It's one of the reasons that parents always seemed to have friends who are also parents and their kids just happened to play together. Like you know these are the things that bind us and after school for example you know you tend to move away. I graduated High School in Pennsylvania and I moved to Ohio. Won't well nobody followed me. So distance became an issue. The the world is getting smaller. Distances is less of a a reason to end the friendship in two thousand nineteen than it was in nineteen ninety nine and especially in nineteen seventy nine for our our listeners but but some of these reasons are healthy. They're expected suspected it's part of growing up but we want to talk about the reasons that are unexpected and the ones that will cause us pain now only do they causes pain. But it's a sincere sense of loss right so it's not just all I had this friend. They were really cool. We're not friends anymore. It's like a void in your life of this person that you had an almost parallels a romantic relationship in terms of the role that they played in your life. If like how big the role was you know. Maybe you call them every day on your way home from work things like that where people play this role in your life and then when they're not there anymore it's very clear that they're not there. There is a very clear whole there and not only. Do you miss them. But then it turns into the abandonment part. which for me is always? What did I do wrong? How is this my fault? They left because I did something. Look this art on the head so obviously a friendship ending prematurely or in a way where one party. He doesn't want it. It's GonNa Cause Trauma and some of that trauma can be worked out just in grief. You're grieving the loss of your friend. That's not what this show is about. So fuck that forget. It moved to decide when that happens too much. That's the abandonment issue that we're talking about right because you visit that sensation onto other people. See Grievous it's very localized you're grieving the loss of Bob whereas an abandonment issue is widespread. You're grieving the loss of Bob on John. You're you're the grieving the loss of Bob Onto Jane. All of these other people are starting to see the effects of what you in. Bob went through it. Lingers our the show is about lived experience and Jackie and I are going to tell you what we went through and how we handled it and share with you but just to let you know exactly what we're talking about from the medical establishment the definition jeff initiation of an abandonment issue is before he gave you the definition that I have right now. I WANNA put it out there that there are a boatload of different definitions wins about abandonment. There's also different kinds of abandonment. There's emotional abandonment. There's physical abandonment. The definition that I'm going to read right now says that abandonment fear often often stems from childhood loss. This loss could also be related to a traumatic event such as the loss of a parent through death or divorce it can also come from not getting enough physical or emotional care but to be clear although a lot of abandonment issues are thought to stem from childhood issues. It's not always the case. You can have abandonment issues. That were started late in life and the catalyst could be something that happened. Well past your childhood years If you want more details on abandoned how it works and where it starts on the different kinds I would would recommend checking out psych central dot com. They're a lot more eloquent and also factual than I am. I always love it when you give a plug to center dot com because it makes the people that support the podcast extraordinarily happy. Thank you Jackie. Also they're smarter than I am so definitely worth going. Therefore Jackie has a compelling story of losing using not one but two friends to her abandonment. Issues This is so sad are on the knock. Crazy lifetime. Movie Jackie's Zimmerman a woman lost without going into excessive detail. As an adult. I have had two very close friends who were long term friends from high school. I'm no longer really friends with either of them. One of them ended on a poor note one of them just kind of faded into oblivion and there is definitely l. e. of void in my life where these friendships once existed Let's break that out a little. Let's talk about the friendship that just sort of faded out. Because when I hear the friendship just kind of faded out. The thing that I think of that natural causes thing you moved away you went in different directions in life maybe they got married and had children whereas you stayed single and that just sort did you grow apart but for you. It's more than that right even though there didn't seem to be like a big blow up and fight and I'm not your friend anymore. You still you see this growing apart as problematic or impact fuller or traumatic. The root of that friendships fizzling was one conversation nation. I remember it in detail. I know that is exactly the moment when it started and it was when I was questioning a relationship that she was him. It didn't go well. We'll just say that and I and We stopped talking after that and we tried for years to kind of rekindle this friendship and start over and actually all these terms that you use in a romantic relationship rate. Let's start hardover. Let's try again. Give it another shot. Go back to how it used to be all of those sort of Well intentioned things that can literally never happen. Once the trauma happens in any kind of relationship. I am a firm believer. That you can't just go back. You can't just pretend like it never happened so we spent years trying to fix it it trying to rekindle it trying to change it and make our friendship grow with us because we were changing as well and it just didn't happen and overtime we checked in lesson hung out less than each other lesson. I just kind of faded off because I think we both really wanted the friendship we had and we know that it will never be see that way ever again. Do you think that the two of you would still be friends if you never questioned her romantic relationship as her friend. Well as it turns out I have put some thought into this. The reality is probably not I think we would not have fallen apart so long ago as we did ahead. I not question that relationship. But she's still with this person and that alone would have driven a wedge through us. Because I don't think that it was necessarily a good person at the right time but also stepping back from that friendship now I've had a chance to assess it and look at it and look at us as individuals and what we brought into each other's lives and I'm not convinced inst- that it was anything that is irreplaceable. As awful as that sounds right in and if she happens to be listening to this and I already feel guilt for what. She's he's GonNa feel about saying all these things but I've looked at who she is as a person who I am as person and I think we have different values. Now that we're older and things have changed and I think we would still be acquaintances. I don't think we would ever be besties again. It's an interesting thing that you said there because you said that you think that the friendship would have just grown apart naturally on its own but if you didn't bring up that conversation about her love interest then you wouldn't feel guilt so even though you would have ended up in the exact same place you you wouldn't have anything to blame yourself for. You felt like the growing apart was equal. So you're going back to one moment in time and saying this is my fault but now. In retrospect you're also saying hey I think the die was cast. I think that we were growing apart. We reached our thirties. And that's something that just happens naturally anyway so that's very very interesting to me because on one hand you're acknowledging that the relationship was already growing apart but on the other hand you're also acknowledging that you blew it up you're a bad person and it's all your fault correct correct those two things don't co exist they don't why are you blaming yourself because in this version of the history which is what happened I I was the catalyst for an explosive conversation slash argument that we had an. I can't undo that even though I I didn't try to undo it but I tried to clarify hitter. I tried to assuage it a bit when she and I talked after that the damage had already been done. So if you look at it from this perspective this was in essence since in a dramatic way. My fault I was the catalyst it was never the same because of me Even if we were headed down a path where maybe we weren't going to be as close that that sting is a lot less than I'm the reason we don't talk anymore. Let's flip the script entirely. Jackie everything happened exactly how you said it. But you're we're just being honest you're looking out for your friend. You saw a concern voiced it and she she did not respect your opinion Nyan. She just ignored you entirely. Didn't thank you for your concern. Just didn't even care about you at all and just abandoned you in ran off. If why isn't that the truth. Why didn't she 'cause the crisis of breaking up the relationship for not respecting your honesty because after all all you were just being honest with your friend? Isn't that what friendship is based on honesty and good communication. This version is is something that I've thought about two and when I was really angry and really mad at her for how our friendship had fallen apart. This is the version that I told myself was. It's all her fault. She really fucked up here. I'm I'm such a good friend. I am such a good friend. Like what is she thinking. But that version anger goes away when the hurt creeps in because the root out of anger a lot of times is fear or sadness or something like that and in this situation it is. It's much easier to be angry at her. I would love to be angry at her because then I would feel. I think I would feel a better. Maybe I would but I. I'm not angry at her and instead I'm just really really sad about it. We'll be right back after we hear from sponsors interested in learning about psychology college and mental health from experts in the field given listen to this link. Central podcast hosted by gay poet. VISIT PSYCH CENTRAL DOT com slash. Show also subscribe I to the Psych Central Punt. Cost on your favorite podcast plan. Hey not crazy fans this is one of your host gave Howard. Are you struggling to sleep these days days. Did you know that a good night's sleep is like magic remedy for the brain and body when we sleep. Well we're more focused and relaxed and best of all sleep makes us happier. And that's why we're partnering with calm the number one APP for sleep if you want to seize the day and sleep the night you can with the help of calm right now not crazy listeners. Get Twenty five percent off a calm premium subscription adt com dot com slash. Not Crazy that C. A. L. M. dot com slash. Not Crazy. Forty million. People have downloaded. Calm find out why ADT COM DOT com slash. Not Crazy see. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and tax with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central. An experienced seven days of free therapy to see online. Counseling is right for you better. Help Dot com forward slash psych central. We would never abandon you. We're back talking about abandonment issues. Do you think that for you. That hurt is a more prevalent and stronger emotion than anger and that's why the hurt has risen to the top and the anger sort of diminished. Yes for me I think anger is one dimensional for me and I hope that I explained this correctly when I'm angry. I'm just mad. I'm like seeing red looking forward. I'm angry at the one thing saying that. I'm seeing this making me angry and when I'm hurt it's almost like it. Opens up this space for all these other emotions for guilt for loss four. Regret it for all of these other feelings. When I'm feeling sad or feeling like somebody has hurt me personally? All those other things come into play as well. It's not as one dimensional. It's more complex and it allows for me to blame myself in that that makes Also it allows me to feel things. Things like abandonment. And then maybe I'll get angry about the abandonment. But then I'll just be really sad that I lost my friend again. It's like a sad cycle and that's of course what's important to realize rate. That's how you process this. That's how anger and sadness and loss. That's how it all exists inside Little Jackie's head but for example me that exact same thing could happen to me and I could just be angry the entire time like loss wouldn't even come into it. I mean loss would come into it because loss would be driving the anger. But that's how I manage my emotions but other people aren't and that's one of the reasons that these things are so difficult to work out because you could explain this story three to ten different well-meaning people and get ten different pieces of perfectly accurate and honest and well intentioned advice advice and none of it could be true for you and that that's really complex and it always sounds kind of like a broken record but that's where therapy is very helpful because you've worked out a lot of this stuff in therapy because it helps you decide the best path forward on an individual personalized level and I think a Lotta people with abandonment. Issues don't realize that. They think that they can emotion the feelings away with the other part of it too. Is I think even when you know it's A. I will say overreaction or not an appropriate reaction when I can identify my anger is not warranted or even my sadness. My guilt is not warranted. Wanted it doesn't mean it goes away so I think people who are maybe opposed to working the stuff out in therapy are like well. I know that this is ridiculous. So that means that I I have solved it. I've gotten to the root of it. It's done it doesn't matter anymore because I know that it is the way that it is but never me. Even when I know the way that I'm feeling is not the appropriate reaction. I still feeling that way and have to get over that and you have a twofer because that's the one that you know. You said the wrong thing you remember the moment it just kind of fluttered it away and you have very strong feelings about it. You don't know what to do. It's all living inside your head and it. It's causing you to be bummed out but then you also had the eruption. The more stereotypical school dramatic television moment. Where everybody's yelling each other and in an instant you go from were friends to were not? There's no wonder there's is no slowness. It's it's heresy. Yes what happened there with the other friend. No we're talking about baked goods now. Yeah what happened with the other friends. This one is more complex because even I don't really know what happened. And that's part of why it hurts so much and why there's such a void there and it's also major part of why I blame myself so much because it's much easier to tell myself narrative of what I did wrong or to rethink my steps steps or to think about how he could have handled it differently or what it could have said differently. Because I don't know the reason why we are no longer friends anymore. There was a catalyst that I'm not interested in talking about but it wasn't a clear catalyst. It wasn't like after that she was like go. Fuck yourself and I was like you fuck yourself and that we never spoke again. It was something that fell on the outside of our relationship that affected our friendship in a way that I never dreamed was possible. I never dreamed that we would not be friends at the end of what happened. Do you think that there was ever a point where it was fixable because you not to my Hiroshima joke. You're you're saying that never happened. Nobody dropped a bomb on your friendship ship but but there was a moment and I know it's difficult you know. Protect the privacy of the people we are. That's part of public. Sharing is to remember that we can only share our side of the story and we can't necessarily clearly share the side of others because we have to protect their privacy. But as best as you can. What was that moment where you in person was there? Yelling was there screaming did did somebody say. Lose my number and never call me again and you did I mean how did you know that it was over. It was an email which feels like the ultimate break-up move move freight somebody an email or text that says we're no longer together at the end of this event will say that was pretty toxic I thought at no point that I ever think our friendship wasn't fixable. We had been friends for almost twenty years at that point. We had been through all of my sickness. She you supported all of that. She supported the death of my father. She was family. My family considered her family. We were family. I never dreamed that we couldn't fix it. Because you can almost always fix something with family even when it gets really bad and she sent me an e mail that basically was like I'm about to go through a massive life changing thing. She was pregnant and at the time. And I don't have time to handle this. I don't have the capacity right now to handle all of this which I respected so I will talk to you. Maybe after after my baby is born and that was two and a half years ago and I haven't heard from her so the email that I got from her basically stating that was so unexpected. Because it was the first time she'd ever said No. I don't WanNa be around you. I don't WanNa talk to you. I don't want anything to do with you right now but maybe in the future I will and now that we are in the future I I have still not heard from her. And that's probably the hardest part. That's the part that that's the part that kind of breaks my heart. Oh I'm crying. I'm crying because it's still la very real pain like I miss her a lot. But there's also a lot of anchor there now because it's been so long. There was the opportunity for her to reach out to help Maybe rectify this or even to tell me this was never gonNA get better. But here's some closure not that she owes me closure second guessing right. She owes me this. She doesn't owe me this. I feel that shouldn't feel guilty. All all of the things where I do feel heavily abandoned by her and I'm sure her version of what happened is very different. And that's I would love to know her version. I'm not sure I have the right to know her version because whatever she's feeling is probably just as much hurt is is. I'm feeling the worst part is that I don't have a chance to rectify it because I don't know what happened. Let's hang onto something that you said for a moment. You said that you know that her version would be much different and that you don't know her version of events are and that you don't believe that you have any right eight to know it. I think that's a very interesting statement because so many people are trapped in this cycle where they're constantly telling themselves. If I only knew what happened I could get better and the reality is. That's not a lock. You can know what happened from another person's perspective and it can become much worse now it is true it can also become much better but forget about both of those things the thing that I wanna make sure that people understand is. There's a path forward without ever talking to the other person and so many people believe when we talk about these these traumas that involve our friends and when we feel abandoned and by people we believe so strongly that are only path forward is hand-in-hand with that other person. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a path half forward for you and you alone because ultimately there your emotions your feelings and whatever the other person is thinking feeling or doing has little to do with you. And it's a bit egotistical to think that what they're feeling in doing and thinking has something to do with you anyway. If you think about it that way you have to be in control of your own emotions you have to be able to move forward and you can't expect somebody else to fix you and that's kind of what that sounds like to me when people say that will as soon as they explain it to me. I'll be fine really so you owe your happiness to an outside source and doesn't that sound right to me. You've already gotten there. Where can you tell us? How do you mean that? I am moving forward. Basically knowing that I'm never going to talk about what happened. I mean you've accepted that you can get it better without her involvement that you can move forward without her involvement that there is life ahead that is emotionally and positively really fulfil in that you don't need her to unlock or achieve. will part of it is what you said where I know that if I talked to her and let's say the way that she remembers this yes I am horrible. I did awful things to her and she remembers it in a way that I don't that's not GonNa help me heal from this at all. That's is probably actually GonNa make it worse and I'm not saying I don't WanNa hear it just so I can continue to feel better about myself. But her version of the story very likely will not help me get through this even though I really want to think that it will in reality. It's probably not going to the other part of this is that I have accepted that I probably will not completely heal. Oh from this. This is a devastating loss. And I talk about this a lot in therapy another plug for therapy because it feels like she died ride. That's the loss. It feels heavy like she died but she didn't she still out in the world living out there and I am not a part of her life so so it's almost a double whammy right if feels like the heavy loss of death but it's not it's worse because I could talk to her and I can't. I know that that devastating loss is not going to go away one hundred percent. It's just not it's like when you do someone to death you never completely get over it but what I have committed to doing is continuing to just move forward and know that her friendship is not the only friendship of member going to have in my life. I will have other friends. It's not going to be twenty years of friendship. It's not going to be the same kind. It may never be as deep and meaningful as that one was but it doesn't mean I'm going to be sitting home my house really wishing I had people to hang out with all the time part of being someone who commits to mental wellness of myself means is that I don't let myself continue to mull about it over and over and over again because I'm not going to get anywhere. I'm not going to get the solutions. I'm not going into the closure that I want. Because she's not a part of it and like I said even if I did have her I probably still wouldn't get it so it's understanding that closure may never happen happen and choosing to say okay. Well that sucks but it doesn't have to be the end of the world. Jackie thank you so much for your candor during this episode one of the takeaways for me is like the rolling stones. Said you can't always get what you want but you get what you need. Thank you everybody for listening in here is what we need you to do one. We always put a funny after after the credits. So if you're not listening to them you're really missing out because Jackie and I mess up a lot. Wherever you downloaded this podcast? There's this thing called a rankings. You can us as many stars or dots bullets or hearts or whatever it's humanly possible but also use your words subscribe to our podcast. Tell your friends about our podcast. Do for everything you can to shout not crazy from the social media rooftops. We'll see you next week. So you've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with gave go to gay power dot com to work with Jackie. Go to Jackie Zimmerman dot co not it crazy travels well ask gave Jackie recorded an episode live at your next event email show and psych central dot com for details. You were really honest with us and I think the takeaway is really like the rolling stone. Said you don't always get what you want but you get what you I need. Hey everybody here's what we need you to do that. Good yes it really bad works. Okay good okay now. It's now it's doing what you want so I guess. Get the lyric correct. That's true okay. Hang on I'll do it again. Jackie I for one appreciate you opening up on this show and I think that it's like Mick Jagger of the fucked up you see I'm GonNa dog and my father did it like I was doing just fine until unknowns touchy MS creeped in from the side of the screen. How I'm sitting up? How did he get up here? Her high from your baby. So you're like on a bed. I see how the dogs get to you. He he's in a look at this. He's resourceful they found a fucking chair and climbed up it. Also I am GonNa Couch. I'm a professional. I record things not in bed. Hello whatever couch lady. I scheduled in oil change at the dealership and they have email the four times to confirm since last night. I just wanted to tell you that also it all right here we go okay here you all right happy chill.

Jackie Bob High School Howard Youtube Jackie's Zimmerman C. A. L. Jack Zimmerman Ben Homes Psych Central Punt Jackie Zimmerman Jackie I official Mick Jagger Pennsylvania Ohio Zimmerman
Stopping Psych Meds; What To Consider

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

29:37 min | 9 months ago

Stopping Psych Meds; What To Consider

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Hello and welcome to this week's not crazy. I'm here with my co host Gabe. Who lives as with bipolar and is also about to go live with his family for eight days this holiday season and I am here with Jackie Zimmerman? Who is the Queen Wayne of getting shit done and lives with depression gave? I cannot wait for you to get back from hanging out with your family. Feel like we're going to get some solid episode. Ideas says January is going to be a great month for not crazy because we have so much to cover and lived. Experience is part of that me a hanging with my family me asking them questions about what I was like when I was really really sick so I think that two thousand twenty is just going to be fantastic and I am going to make a nice little lead into today's episode which is in the New Year people tend to make resolutions whether they they are warranted or not and I think sometimes one of those resolutions for a lot of people are health related and that could even mean maybe going off of medications. Jackie as always you couldn't be more right health related. Resolutions are at the top and they revolve largely around Diet and exercise weight loss strength training. Earning everybody joins a gym but mental health is getting in there too. But there's a dark side to this right because some people believe that in order to be mentally healthy they must. Let's not be on any medications. Now we're not gonNA argue whether or not this is right or wrong. We're just GONNA talk about all the reasons that people feel this way and in this episode. We're specifically talking about my depression and all the fun things that I did wrong that hopefully you guys can learn from. Yeah so it's important understand that your mileage may vary. I am the quintessential essential example here. Because I have tried to go off my depression meds on multiple occasions for good reasons four reasons and I think that a a lot of them are reasons. Other people can relate to their relatively common. Jackie this idea of people not wanting to take psychiatric. Medications is not a new concept. I think that everybody myself included has struggled with this idea of. Wow is it really my lot in life to take pills especially when I was younger I was diagnosed at twenty five and some people are diagnosed at fourteen sixteen eighteen twenty and all the sudden they're carrying around a pill minor just like grandma. I'm not trying to throw grandma under the bus. I'm just saying that a lot of our friends who are also sixteen eighteen. Twenty twenty five thirty. They're not carrying around pill. Minders I think that sometimes is one of the reasons people want to stop taking psychiatric. Medications is simply because They don't WanNa feel different. It has nothing to do with how the medication is reacting eighteen in their bodies and it has everything to do with the psychological task of putting a pill in your mouth. One two three times a day. I think think you're right. I've definitely had that in my life not so much with the psychiatric meds but when I was really sick I took a lot of meds. I took fifteen pills a day so once I finally got off of all those. The last thing I wanted to do was take more meds that I didn't think that I needed so I've definitely been in the position of. How do I get off of all these? Because I don't I don't Wanna I don't WanNa have to kind of like a child but like I just don't WanNa do this anymore and I think that that can be a very common reason. I think I can also be a little bit of a dangerous reason though because I think when you're in the I don't WanNa mentality you're not necessarily thinking about what's best for you. You're just thinking short term of right. Now oh I don't want to be taking this. I don't WANNA be different. This is frustrating. This is annoying and I don't WanNa do it anymore. Jackie unlike me you've had a shit ton of physical health problem straight up physical health nothing to do with mental illness. Nothing to do with mental health your body broken right and you took medications for the the physical health issues now. Those worked a little different right because from the day they prescribed you the medications. You knew that eventually you would become off of them. Am I correct there. You're not correct. They're actually had they worked for me. I would still be taking them but they didn't work so I didn't take them. That's why I ended up having surgery. Okay so let's talk about that for a moment. Yep You just said that. Had those medications worked for you. You would have taken them for life so that you did not have to have surgery now were you thinking to yourself. I'm just going to randomly stop taking the physical health medications at some future point. Even though the doctor doesn't want me to and even though it may not be healthy because after all I don't want to take physical medications or is this just something. You only did with the mental health meds. This is something I only did with the mental L. Health beds which I can say very honestly. The first time I tried was when I was first coming out of being really sick and there was a little bit of well. I don't want to be on psych meds for the rest of my life because of stigma. A hundred percent stigma right and there was this weird concept that I had that I don't know where it came from but like they will know and they is in air quotes of like you know it'll be on my permanent medical record whatever that means like like if I ever want to join the military. Someday they're going to be like well. You aren't antidepressants but spoiler alert. I'm never joining the military and I don't know where that came from. I don't know where I just assumed everybody who ever a hired me for a job or something I don't know but I was just like these are bad. Don't want him on my record anymore. Whatever the record is I don't even know what the fuck that means? But but I just didn't want it. This is interesting because you were kind of bummed when you couldn't have been on those other medications for the rest of your life right like when they you said. Hey these medications are working. You're no longer gonNA take them. You were like Oh. Give me my meds back yeah. I was devastated that they weren't working. But you felt completely Lee different about the mental health medications even though they were trading something in your body. That wasn't working properly. They they gave you pills and did the pills work. We'll say yes yes. I don't think that they worked exceptionally well. But they were. I think had I stuck to it. They they would have worked better. You're saying that if you stuck to them they would have worked better. Which I kind of think the subtext in that is that maybe you were fighting them from the very beginning a hundred percent cent? Yes so so the minute somebody said hey you have severe depression. This is not good for you. You are feeling suicidal and we want Jackie to be more. Mentally healthy and medication showed up and said Hey. This is the treatment for that. You were already trying to figure out how to get out of it. Yes yes and I knew I. I knew there was something wrong. I knew that I was not thinking the way that I wanted to be thinking or feeling the way I wanted to be feeling but I also knew again. There's like and I'm not paranoid. It wasn't like the they conspiracy theory but it just was like psych meds are bad and I don't WanNa be on. I don't want anybody to know I'm on them. I don't want there to be a record of me needing these things you keep saying that I didn't want there to be a record. I didn't want people to know. How would people know? I have no away dea. I mean Jackie we we have a podcast and we're like buddies like we've hung out. It's like I've known you for several years. We we make it a point to like delve Delve deep into our physical health or mental health. Our emotions our psyche. Eventually we're going to cry together and I have no wadia. What any medications you had ever taken in fact? I don't even know what medication you take when you have a headache and I'm like your friend and your business is this partner. Why do you think that strangers just like there's Jackie he's on X.? I WANNA clarify that. I don't think this now talking about this now but then again. I don't know where it came from. I wasn't paranoid I wasn't worried. Nobody told me it's not like in my household. My parents parents were like. Hey there's a secret governmental record on every medication you've ever taken people just peruse it for fun at times like I don't know where it came from but there was this idea of they and I didn't want they to know anymore which is just bonkers now. I mean it was literally a crazy thought and because because of that I try to get off of them as soon as I felt like it was an okay idea which was a hundred percent too soon. So let's go back to the very first time that you stopped taking your medication Asian. Yeah so here you are. You acknowledge a problem. You solid doctor for it. You Got Medication for it. You took the medication and by your own admission. You were feeling better doing better. Things were improving. Yeah now I imagine that your thought process wasn't I'm going to stop taking my medications and go back to the way that I felt before I started taking them. What was your thought process S? What was going on in Jackie's mind? What did you expect to happen? I don't know I probably expected to just be fine right. I think the the status quo of fine not good not great not wonderful but fine. I was still in the surgery sequence here when the first time I went off so I still oh had a lot of physical health problems to deal with and I guess I just thought I would just tackle them and be fine. Even though the first time I tackle them I was not fine again. None of this makes sense. I did a bad job of taking care of my mental health when my physical health was being awful this is a prime example of that where I was like. I got this. It's fine. There was no evidence that I had it. I did not have it at all but I just was like well. You GotTa pick one. I guess okay so so. You stopped taking your mental health meds what happens. I don't think that there was even a moment of. Oh this is better. I think it just immediately started to decline. You know if you are somebody takes antidepressants. You know that it is a matter of days usually without your meds before you kind of start to feel. Maybe like things aren't going well at least okay. That's my experience if I go about four days I'm like man. Everything kind of sucks again. What's going on with this? Oh surprise I didn't take my meds so almost immediately. Things started to feel worse again I was sadder I was more depressed. I was isolating. I was losing hope again. I didn't lose all hope but I was starting to lose hope in the surgery sequence that I was in. It wasn't feeling like it was a good idea anymore. All the things I felt the first time I started taking into depressants just came rushing right back relatively quickly so now this has happened everything came rushing back. What did you do well? I did. What every smart person would do which was nothing? I was like well. I got this right all the evidence. It's here tells me I got this again. No evidence supported that I had that whatsoever so it took a while but eventually I went back to one of the doctors who was willing to prescribe me medication at that time because I had a couple of different ones who were like. Hey the Asian. Maybe think about this and got back on meds. But you're stubborn. Yup so you repeated this a few times dead. We've covered the first time and I think that there's probably an interesting story in the second and third time. Let's talk about the fourth time you tried this like okay. Th the first time you tried it. There's a little bit of an understanding there right. You're you're thinking to yourself. Hey I'm not sure this is for me. I'm not sure I need this. I want to see what happens if I'm not on them now. There are smarter ways to do this. Yeah I would advise everybody if you think that you don't need your medications. There's nothing wrong with that. You should absolutely speak with your medical provider explain. Why why? And even if they're like look you're wrong if you WANNA try it. Tell them I'm going to go off my medications and I want you to observe me and I I want you to know. That's perfectly understandable for the first time to your point gave also. I need to make it very clear that I did this the wrong way. I took my self off cold. Turkey lake an idiot at Intel. My medical professionals. They didn't help me through it. I just was like I'm done with these. I'm going to say one hundred under percent. Don't do that don't do what I did. Don't be me because that was the wrong way to do it. Do agape said don't do it. Jackie did yet. We still got time number four right right so the first time you're thinking to yourself I don't need this and everything will be fine if I stop it and it wasn't fine so you started again now the second time you think. Oh I don't need this. Everything will be fine if I stop this so you stopped it. Everything wasn't fine so you started again so the third time you thought. Hey I don't need this everything thing. We'll be fine if I stop this. But it wasn't so you started again so now the fourth time a- you're like hey I don't need this and I'm being very sincere. I don't want anybody buddy to think that I'm picking on Jackie. Even though I'm clearly picking on Jackie from a logical from a intelligent perspective if you heard word of somebody else repeating the same thing over and over and over again and expecting the results to be completely different. What would you think of that person? It's not a smart move. We'll just say that right. I mean Repeating something over and over again expecting a different result is the definition of insanity right whether that's appropriate for this show or not it. One hundred percent is but you have to be able to see your own patterns. You have to be able to look at something and go. This is a pattern and eighties. Either a good one or a bad one and the last time. I decided to go off meds. I went off because I felt great. I Have I've been great for years. I was celing life. I was happy. I was fulfilled. I had friends I was going out into the world. I was good and I think I did. What a lot of people do? which is I'm good? I don't need this anymore not I don't want it not. It's not working but I'm doing so well. All there is no depression insight. I do not need this in my life spoiler alert. I was doing so well because of the medication I was taking because treatment was working. Yes one of the things. That's very difficult for people with mental illness is. It's not so simple. Simple as to just go off the meds find out that it doesn't work and then go back on the same meds because your body adjust to the medication. Then your body adjusts to being off the medication Shen. You can't just start taking the original set again and expect it to work in some percentages it. That may be okay but in larger percentage is the medication that you were stable on is no longer the medication that you can be stable on which means you effectively have to start over. And that's like a really scary prospect because for for many of us it took us a while to find the right medication to begin with. I feel the need to just yell the word disclaimer. If you are thinking about doing this there is nothing wrong with that. But do it with your doctor. Yes this is why you pay them. Have a frank conversation Shen with your doctor and say this is how I feel. This is what I'm worried about. These are my concerns. Hey we've got sponsors. They've got messages. Take a minute to listen interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field given listen to this link central podcast hosted by gay powered visit psych central dot dot com slash show all subscribed to the psych central podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are license accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus US chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face-to-face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days. Free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you better help dot com forward slash psych central and. We're back discussing medication. In treatment for depression there are two reasons that people want to stop taking medications to primary reacts. Obviously there's one people think that they're not working the don't need them and they I don't want to take medications that have long term side effects short term side effects. They don't want to risk their liver their body for a medication that they don't need that. One is extraordinarily extraordinarily understandable. I worry about that with my own medication and I love my meds but as I age I think man. What is my liver GonNa feel like after sixty St Years of psychiatric medication treatment? So I understand that work with your doctor deliver test. Make sure you're doing the right thing. It's the second second reason that I want to talk about. And that's a shame that stigma that. I'm a better person if I can maintain this on on my own. I hear that a lot. I don't need medication. I can manage my depression on my own here that a lot so. I don't know that I was that person but I had a similar thoughts like that person. I remember saying out loud in therapy multiple times when I was really really depressed that I was frustrated that I couldn't outsmart got it that I knew that it was coming. I knew how to handle it. I knew what I did in the past but I still couldn't outsmart it. I wanted to be able to outsmart depression. Shen and I was mad that I couldn't do it. Why did I think that I could do it by myself? Well you know that's an interesting thing that you said there because it sort of makes me smile a little bit. Because here's what you said. You said that I wanted to outsmart depression. Okay let's change depression to I want to outsmart the raccoon. That's it's digging in my garbage. I don't like raccoons digging in my garbage. I imagine that nobody likes raccoons digging in their garbage. So one day a raccoon doctor her tells me hey you can get anti raccoons and put them on your garbage can and it will work and they won't be able to get in your garbage can anymore more so I buy them and every day. I installed the anti raccoons to my garbage cans and it works perfectly and I feel doc. I outsmarted the raccoons. And I bet everybody listening is like yeah. You Lock Down Your Lids Dude. That's common sense but then I say no no. Oh I don't want to use the lid locks on my garbage cans. I want to outsmart the raccoons on my own. So now I will do nothing but with the power of my mind. I will convince the raccoons not to dig in my garbage. I think anybody hearing that is like wow l. dude just put a brick on the lid and call it a day. Well no no no can't use a brick that that's cheating that's cheating well when you put it that way. Ah Yes of course but tell me anytime in your life when your mental illness is acting up. We'll say where things make sense and you're making rational choices. It's not a common thing for me. It's not a common thing and in that moment I was like I feel you come depression I got it. I'm ready. I'm GonNa Outsmart this shit and I didn't. I had no chance and that time I went back. Admits shocker right. And that was the last time and the reason why was because I had a conversation with my sister about this because there was still a little bit of shame involved in them and I don't know WII and it is. I feel shame that I felt shame right. Like I shouldn't feel shame about it but like they're still this level of. I really didn't want them. I didn't want to need them. Him and my sister said to me. It's not so much that it keeps you out of like the pit right if we say. Depression has a level one through ten. It doesn't keep you out of one all the time because I'm hanging out at like five. Most of the time she goes what it does is it makes you better prepared to handle all the shit that comes up that you you can't predict so for me when I'm on meds specifically for depression when something bad happens in life that you don't see coming you can't plan for that can take me down to a one row quick but with my meds it takes me down to like three or four. It gives me a better chance at at handling it. I still have to go to therapy. I still have to practice self care and all that jazz but it doesn't take me the way that it would when I'm off mets I don't go level zero row immediately. I have shot at tackling it in a healthier way. And that's the part that I hate most about the discussion surrounding medication vacation. People believe that it's the easy way out. Yes it all you have to do is Take Your meds be med compliant and suddenly mental. Illness isn't an issue anymore and nothing could be further further from the truth. You still have to work your ass off. You still have to learn coping skills and you have to relearn your body audie and you have to adjust to the world around you and you have to learn your triggers and on and on and on we have an entire your show because of how complicated mental illness and mental health issues are. We wouldn't have a show at all if medication. Just fix that if all you had to do with pop a pill every day and suddenly mental health issues and mental illnesses went away completely. Yeah what would our podcast be called. Nothing like for real. This would be a non issue. Do you notice. There's no pink eye podcast because paint guy is is so easy to treat. It's just annoying at this point so I really really hate it when people say I WANNA fight it on my own. Listen if you're taking the medication there is still plenty to do plenty to do like like you said. The medication is like the shovel right. It just makes digging the hole easier but yeah digging a hole is really really hard and you should give yourself herself credit for having dug it. You don't get extra bonus points for digging the hole with your bare hands in fact you kinda look dumb. If I didn't take meds Ed's right now would I be okay day to day probably probably theoretically we'll say in theory I'd be okay day to day I could sustain my life be productive. Be Marginally happy right. What would happen if something bad happened like a couple years ago when my father passed away if I had not been taking meds at that time that that would have been catastrophic? I can't even think of a word. For how bad it would have been it would have just been absolutely life. Imploding reading you know there would have been nothing left from the wreckage. It just makes handling the shit slightly easier and and I don't take it to sustain myself every day I take it. It's almost like a preventative right. Like it's to help me for things. I don't see coming right now if we're going on a scale of ten ten being happy one being super depressed if I didn't take meds day-to-day I'd probably live like maybe a four or five just my baseline would be lower. Which means my capacity for handling shit would be lower which means my ability to deal with? It would be lower and everything everything just goes downhill much faster and it's important to remind everybody that all of this is predicated on getting the correct information getting the correct treatment finding the combination Manasian that works for you and it's important to recognize that for some people. Medication is not the answer when it comes to depression. It's not for everybody. We're just asking people to be open to the idea. And the people who are on medications to do the right thing. If they're thinking about making a change or going off of their medication I really truly and honestly believe that when it comes to all medical treatment telling the doctor that you're going to do one thing and then doing something else is a bad idea and that's everything that's physical health mental health. It's just it's just a bad idea. Yeah we are not doctors. We did not go to medical school. This isn't a speech on why you should take your mental health meds. It's a speech on why you should participate disappeared in your treatment with your doctor and not lie to them and if you tell your doctor you're going to do it and then you just decide not to you are not participating painting in your own care. In fact you're derailing your care because your medical team thinks you're doing it so they're making decisions based on a lie. which is I'm not a good idea for us? It's not a good idea. No and I hope that the main takeaway from this show is not never go off meds because you're just going to go right back on because you can't can't handle life without them. That's my story I'm GONNA own now and that's me. I have committed to never coming off meds again because I know my life is better with them period and story. But that doesn't mean that everybody's story so if you walk away with anything it's just to talk to your doctor about it because the way I did it in the past was the wrong way it could have been more successful. Had I done it with the help of my medical team probably almost more certainly yes but didn't and it went terribly and it was really really really bad. So if you're considering this or even considering changing medication this all kind of goes together that you need to have this conversation with your doctor with your therapist with anybody in your medical team that is helping make decisions to keep you healthy based on the actions you take that they have prescribed. I think the final thing that I want to throw out there. Jackie of course is that everybody's journey is different. Everybody's recovery story is different and one of the things that we have to stop doing to each other is pill shaming in the same way that we don't WanNa believe that pills are the answer to everything we don't want to believe that pills are detriment to everyone. Everybody is an individual and so often I see it all the time in mental health circles on the Internet. We're all commenting on everybody else's mental health care and not in an encouraging origene way. I don't need so neither to you. Well if you just work harder you'll be fine. Well you know if you do yoga and do. CBD Oil you'll be better and just on and on and on and on and on and it's not supportive it's not constructive and you don't know that person's entire history because you read some stuff about them on social show media and now you're giving them pointed specific advice. It's dangerous and I WANNA say to all the people who are taking that advice. I just just told you where that advice is coming from. It's important to think for ourselves. It really really is. I know that we're GONNA get email saying that. We are in bed with big Pharma and I just want everybody to know if any pharmaceutical company wants to give us a whole bunch of money we will accept it because these are real views. Sorry guys if we were in bed with big Pharma we would make so much more money so much more. Jackie thank you so much for being so real and so honest in this episode assode. Because it's hard to publicly admit that we stumbled but I know for a fact that so many people believe that they are the only ones that have stumbled and and fallen and made a mistake. And that's just not true. We've all done it and is much as Jackie and I want to believe that we're never going to do it again. We're so going to do it it again. It'll just be slightly different with a little different. Twist at the end like two princesses and a talking snowman instead of one princess and talking dwarves. It's the the same movie people thank you. Everybody for listening to this week's episode of not crazy sheriff's on social media. Use your words and review us. Whatever podcast player you download our show on forward to people and remember after the credits is is an outtake? I know what didn't make it into the show. You can only find out by sticking around. We'll see everybody next week. Thank you I thank. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit psych central dot com non crazy crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with game go to gay power dot com to work the Jackie go to Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels well have given. Jackie recorded an episode live at your next event emails show and Psych Central Dot Com for details. If we were in bed with big Pharma we would make so much more money so much more so much more. I'd have like seven Mercedes instead of just the six alleged path. My student loans see. That's the difference between a Gen xer and a millennial I wanNA oh by another ivory back scratcher and you just WANNA desperately pay off your student loans or not living death anymore.

Jackie depression pills Jackie Zimmerman Jack Zimmerman Jackie he mets Shen Lee Jackie Zimmerman Dot Intel Turkey lake Howard headache CBD Oil
Managing Marriage and Depression

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

27:22 min | 8 months ago

Managing Marriage and Depression

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Welcome to this week's episode of not crazy I'd like to introduce my co host. The very very much in love and here with her husband. Jackie and you know that she's ball as my co host Gabe. WHO's also here with his lovely wife? I like how we haven't bothered to introduce our spouse downs. Now I in this Shindig. It's gave and Jackie and their spouses. They've been brought up in other podcasts. They've been the annoyingly cleanly happy people. They've been the aspiring rapper. They've been the only he's so sweet and he's so nice but he doesn't understand. He lost my keys but never have. They've been on the show to defend themselves but they are here today. So I would like to introduce your spouse Adam. Hello and I'm going to introduce your spouse Kendall. Hello one of the things. That of course comes up often in our e mail boxes in. QNA is how are. Are you guys married. How do you date with mental illness? How do you get married with mental illness? How do you live with people when you are mentally ill people were like? Oh my God. You're in a real relationship relationship that's good how well I have a great idea. Why don't we Askar well? Why don't we Kendall? Do you ever find it difficult being being married to a man that is slightly more emotional maybe than one would expect yes and now in a text message before we actually met face is to face. He told me he had bipolar disorder. I just started to Google and that we met and we started dating. He was very honest about who he was what he steve was dealing with. And I did a lot of research you know I googled. I took classes so I was kind of aware of what was going on and it was never an issue like it was never an issue with his illness. It was more an issue with him and I learning to deal with each other. You know I'm not perfect and everybody's always like oh you're a saint. He puts up with my emotional bullshit as much as I put up with his. So it's not a me putting up with him. It's a partnership and that's how I've always looked at it though when people people are like. Oh It's not fair that you're married to someone with bipolar disorder. Unlike oh it's not fair that he is married to someone eight years younger than him with less life experience. It's who is half death. I want to throw a question to you. Do you get people pulling you aside and say things like. Oh your a saint for living with Jackie. Tolerating Jackie Handling Jackie's emotional issues or mental illness is. Is this something that you get in your marriage or in your life. You've no I have not gotten that. It's mostly Jackie. That's telling me that I'm a saint for putting up with all she goes through but I don't really ever ever see it as that. I agree with Kendall. It's never like across that. I feel I have to bear. It's more of a pleasure and that's why we're all still here. Everyone here chose to the other person. So there's obviously more positives the negatives when you met me and you knew immediately about like the MS and Colitis and all the surgeries and stuff. Because it's all over the Internet. Did anybody give you pause on that. yeah I think so. Yeah people that I worked with wind win. Jackie told me about the MS. When I would tell people about it they would go? Oh Really Oh okay. That kind of gave people pause I'd heard heard of it. I didn't know all the ramifications and implications and everything so how Kendall was saying she had went and researched. So look that up and it didn't seem like a show uh-huh stopper for me. It wasn't like this right now. Head for the hills but I mean I gotta be honest. I think that it's good. That Kendall and I are so happy because it makes depression or I would only guess bipolar disorder. That much easier to deal with if Jackie now. We're both depressed. Might be a lot more difficult. If we're both going through somethin' then that were not really feeling all on our a game but most days I wake up and I'm on my game so I'm very lucky that I have it this way and I'm I'm also very lucky that I'm with her because she can also help me. See it from the other angle. So I think we're all lucky. We all have things to be thankful for. That's that's why I'm married. That guy. My wife is sitting there like oh I wish I was happy like Adam. I want to take a second point out what you said there. which is that? People were concerned because Jackie had multiple sclerosis. I think sometimes when dealing with mental so illness we think that people are only concerned giving pause asking questions whatever words you WanNa put in there because it's a mental illness when an actuality the world's just filled with busy bodies giving advice about every little thing are you sure you wanna marry her because she's taller or are you sure you wanNA marry him because he's shorter you sure you wanNA marry him because he makes less money are you sure you wanna marry her because she has. Ms Assure you wanNA marry him because he's bald. That was one of the biggest things that I learned doing the patient Advocacy Verses Mental Health Advocacy. Were all stigmatized for being sick. And it's sad. I think we have a really unique situation Asian where we have both of our spouses here and they're both annoyingly peppy like we have said and we've gone over why we love them and why they let us and everything is lovely. But I'd really like to dive into to the ship for a minute because I think that's what people wanna hear right so Gabe if you've ever experienced by polar rage around Kendall or ever had had any mania or any severe depression like Kendall. What's that like for you to deal with so given I've been married almost eight years it'll be eight? Years was this August and when I met gay back in two thousand and eleven Gabe was in recovery. All of Gabes episodes had really been in the the pass. So I don't WanNa say I'm lucky but you know him and I have continued to work towards his recovery together and there are days where it's hard thursdays were gave gets up. But he's just not quite with it. He's sad he is depressed. And I WANNA fix it and I'm like. Hey what can we do. Let's do this. Let's do that and he's just like I'm just GonNa go to McDonalds and sit by myself for a while. It was really hard for me to realize that it's not me. It's not personal. This is just how he deals. And just because I can't fix it doesn't mean that it's it's broken but it was really hard for a while because I am the kind of person that I want everybody around me to feel good. I want everybody to be okay and I think Adam kind of alluded to that adamant and I wake up and most of the time we're up we're ready we're ready we're happy. We want to attack the day but you know our spouses. There's just days where they wake up and it's the exact opposite so yeah there's just days where Gavin I don't quite click but we'll work through it and tomorrow we're GONNA get up and we're GONNA try again but tonight we're going to order pizza. We're going to sit on the couch and watch. It's reruns of American Dad with what Kendall said a big part of it that I found helpful is realizing that. It's not personal. When Jackie got through to me and said this is anxiety? This is this has nothing to do with you absolutely nothing. You're doing everything right and it's not going to stop anything that I'm feeling in terms of her being anxious. That's a lot of the responsibility out of my hands and then it's like all right. Well I'll just keep doing me and doing everything to help. And that's really all that we could do to realize that it's not personal. Was a big help for me. Okay one more question for Kendall. We put out a poll on social media. Asking in what questions people would want to know about our dynamics with our spouses and one of them asked about how to handle finances with a spouse that is bipolar. And have you guys had to deal with any kind of weird financial. Fuck Ary Financial fucker things. That should actually be legitimate name of it. So I'm going to be completely honest when Gabin I got together. I was the one that was involved in some financial. Fuck Ary so no one likes to fuck and talk about money with anybody let alone somebody that you're dating dating game and I sat down. We talked here's where it's a little bit different. Gabe is a financial whiz so we sat down. We put a plan together and we followed. Hold it and now we're financially stable which is something that I think a lot of people strive for but again it's a very hard conversation to have with or without mental illness or any of those dynamics but it's something that every couple needs to talk about regardless of what is going on and be honest about it. Do you feel like you have to have a safety net in place like shit could hit the fan. Do you have a plan. Are you GonNa shut in the big accounts or you're going to take all of his debit cards like have you guys talked about this. We do have a plan in place you know. Spending is a manic symptom and all of a sudden of gave comes home one day with a new ninety inch. Oh lead television in that. We didn't talk about. We're going to have a serious conversation about it and it may come down to is take away the credit cards. I have to go in and change the passwords on the Bank accounts and so far. We have never had to do that. But we do have contingency plans in place with something that we discussed and we have in our back pocket. Should we ever need it. Thankfully we have not needed it but I know in the past have needed it right in my previous marriage. My wife took took everything away from me. Here's the difference. We didn't discuss it so I just woke up one day and all of a sudden all the credit cards were off and she's like. Hey Look you get an allowance and I was like why. And she's like because Amazon basically because Amazon. It was really really hard because there was no discussion. And I set up my spouse to sort of be my parents and she didn't want to be in that position I didn't want to be in that position. I feel very angry and hurt. And that's one of the reasons that Kendall and I have the plan that hopefully we will never have to enact because if we have to enacted Kendall will be like remember that thing that we discussed remember all the things that we agreed upon together as a partnership partnership. Were doing that now. We're doing it now. So while it would bother me and while I would be upset it would protect Kendall from getting one hundred percent of the shit because at least I would have had a say in what was going to happen. I would assume that Kendall doesn't feel like she's parenting you because because this is something you've decided on together and if you ever do have to enact it doesn't feel like you were punished gay by your mom because you had a say in this And that's very much how my last relationship felt it very much. Felt that things were punitive. Instead of a response to to symptoms a little bit of planning goes a long way. And I don't want Kendall and I to fall into the same trap as my previous two wives CBS and I did and I have a history of wrecking good things. And I don't WanNa wreck a third thing atom along these same lines. How hard is is it for you not to fix things? When you see your beloved freaking out the first thing that pops into your head is how? How can I make this better and spoiler alert? That is a mistake. Yeah yeah that's something that takes a lot of work on my behalf behalf takes a lot of getting used to. There's one time that comes to mind when it's a Saturday afternoon. We both have the day off. We're actually going to go to eastern market in Detroit and we are going to go shopping and we have no time line. It's like ten in the morning and we have until we want to go to bed so we're within two minutes of being inside the store that we're trying to go to so we do do one lap when we drive by find. There's no parking and then all the sudden Jackie is just level ten. She's very agitated. She's not having fun not anymore. Thirty seconds ago. We were both listening to a podcast and going. Wow that's really interesting. Oh Wow and then. We're kind of scanning for parking and all of a sudden she's going well I don't know I don't know I don't know what we're GONNA do. Where could we park our? We're going to have to park thirty miles away now do you. You even have enough gas full tank of gas. She's like when was the last time you got oil. Change is that okay. You probably need your alignment done. You probably need to get new tires on his car and all the sudden everything has just gone out the window. And we're going from having a fine Saturday to so now we're not having fun and now I'm agitated and after I was trying to fix things go. Hey it's fine. Hey Hey we got time. Hey we're just chilling. We're hanging out and that's not open anything. That's making everything worse. Did you tell them. Calm down I mean. Honestly thing that pops into my mind when she's bringing up oil changes and alignment Lineman's when you're just trying to find a parking spot is while chill. I wasn't even there and I wanted to be like Jack. You just need to chill and even I know that's awful. Well he's not an idiot. Say That but did you want to. Oh Yeah you wanted to say calm down. You're being stupid. How how did you not because so many of us that live with mental illness our loved ones? They tell us to calm down. What should they do instead? And and how do you do it this over here. It's incredibly frustrating to be out and having a good time and then all of a sudden something so inconsequential for myself of not finding a parking space. This is my day off too so this is my fun time. That's kind of being arraigned on. It's it's incredibly frustrating. But still working on what Kendall said knowing that it's not me. There's nothing I can do to fix it. There's nothing I did to get us here. Sure this is completely out of my control and then I don't want to cast my frustrations out on Jackie either because now I know she's going through some things so just kind of being quiet early. I'd just shut up not like devolve into myself but just don't agitate the situation. Don't try and make a better. Just be kind of a equilibrium librium just to be here ramp anything up and not try intake anything down so just be the control. Really Adam them. That's a really good point and I definitely felt that myself. Jackie how does that make you feel hearing that now. Not In the heat of the moment we're not in. That situation should anymore. How does that make you feel? I mean obviously it makes me feel terrible in the moment. You know. It's a rational you know that it doesn't make sense. I know we had all day and that there will eventually be a parking spot right like it's not that I'm so delusional that I don't understand these things will get better. It's hard to hear Adams responser that he feels like he has to kind of shut down in those moments but he's right so if he where to say like hey calm down. It'd be terrible. He did try to rationalize with me through this one and it didn't make it better him saying hey they'll be parking spots. I was like Nope doesn't matter. Hey the store will be open later. NOPE doesn't matter. They'RE GONNA run out of meat like it didn't matter in that moment so he's right. It feels awful that thing that makes him feel like he cannot communicate communicate with me but any form of communication in. That moment doesn't necessarily help. Silence is Golden. It really is sometimes giving us the space to process our own emotions. Sion's is much more helpful than trying to help us. I hate to say it that way but this isn't the domain of mental illness. I think of all of the fights. It's that my parents got into on every vacation ever and yeah if one of them would have just shut up. The fight would have lasted one one one hundredth of the time. They just escalated each other. And that's not a mental illness thing. My Mom and dad there mentally healthy in fact my mother is kind of like Adam and Kendall. She's just like happy. Being life is good and joyful just so annoying so awful so awful. We'll be right back after these messages interested interested in learning about psychology and mental health experts in the field given listen to the sink central podcast hosted by gay powered visit Psych Central Dot com slash. Show show all subscribed to the psych central podcast on your favorite podcast Leah. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient Venus and affordable online counseling. All counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and tax. That's what the therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central an and experienced seven days. A free therapy to see online. Counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych central. But we're back with Gabe and Jackie and their spouses houses. So I WANNA actually ask atom a question. I think that it sounds like we all came into our marriages of just. Oh I'm aware of all the issues news and we work through it and like we the paradigm of a lovely marriage. All of us got the twice. Divorced guy is just proved. That marriage is easy. Yeah really killing it it over there but Adam knew all about my physical issues before we get together he knew about Ms. He knew about colitis he knew about everything but my depression. My anxiety really really skyrocketed after we had already been together for a few years like all of a sudden I have anxiety surprise. And you have to deal with it and I kind of want to ask you if you you can give advice to people in new relationships how you can handle a spouse or significant other with depression anxiety. My only advice would be needs to just know that you don't have to handle these things. The choice is you could either love this person enough to stay with them. I am or there's always the door and you could leave so if it's worth it to stay there in the work it out then you're going to make it happen but if you don't want to do then probably the best advice would be to not try to do that. If the cons are outweighing the pros at that point ten the only advice. I think that anybody you would be able to give would be then. Don't do it because it's not going to resolve itself. It's not going to get better. It's still going to be there so there's really no better way to deal with it. I think the bonuses on people like Gabe Jackie to understand that when our spouses say that they want to be there. That is their thought process their thinking. Hey we've weighed the pros and cons and we WANNA stay and I know from my perspective. I'm like oh I'm with an idiot. They haven't weighed the pros and cons. They don't WanNa be here and they're going to wake wake up tomorrow and leave and what Adam said is hey. We've decided that we want to stay. And the proof is the fact that we are here. And I think the Gabin Jackie's Akis of the world need to stop pressing. Because we do that. Let's be honest. I think everybody in the audience I heard Adam and they're like oh my God. Our loved ones are going to leave. Give us but that's not what Adam said what Adam said is we've thought about it. We understand that were not trapped we can leave and we have chosen willfully to stay. I think we need to respect and honor that otherwise. We're doing to them. Were accusing them of doing to us. And that's not respecting their feelings and their choices aces. That's what I was trying to say. Thank you for putting that a lot more eloquently that I could. I think that is what you said. Good what you said is we can leave if if we want to. That's what I'm saying. Yeah so if we're here we want to be here so sincerely thank you because I know for me. I am constantly looking at Kendall handle and I'm like you're gonNA leave and the reason that I think she's going to leave is because I would leave. I don't know what that says about her. But I really don't know what that says about me. I should probably work on in therapy. And you know who likes therapy. Jackie Lakes therapy. I love therapy. And part of the reason I love therapy and what I work on all the time especially in the beginning of our relationship Asian trip was why is this guy sticking around like I am a mess. What is wrong with him spoiler alert? There's nothing wrong with him. There is not a single. I think I could say about Adam. Honestly you lie. I turn off that microphone. You've got a list. I guarantee you got. I got a list pollyanna crazy woman that I live with. I don't know what's wrong with her. Jackie this is my last question before we wrap it all up. You are a proponent of therapy you believe that everybody should be in therapy. Do you believe that every couple couple should be in therapy. We have not done couple's therapy and I am not opposed to it. In fact I know a lot of couples who every like four or five years. Go to couples therapy not as a tuneup just to make sure they still understand each other and still have good communication and I think that's brilliant and I said to him when we had five years. We're going to therapy. Yeah I think it's great. I think that if you are having a problem communicating with your spouse and I hear this all the time adamant I truly have fantastic communication. It's one of the things we he discovered early and we have built on. It's probably the best part of our marriage is we can communicate but that's not the case for everybody and if it's really not having a third party listen to both of you and translate think is gold and absolutely valuable should be in therapy. Yes do you need to be in therapy forever. No I I truly do think every once in a while just popping in just making sure. We're still as good as we think we are. Why wouldn't you do that? You know if you leave feeling like yeah we're we're still killing L. and then you both win full disclosure. Gabin Kendall have been to therapy and we weren't on the verge of divorce it was. We had an issue that we had tried. I do work through together. We were struggling with it and we were like. Hey let's utilize a professional to get through to the other side and we did. And it's workout. Got Like gangbusters. But you're right. I like what you said. There are people. Have this idea that couples therapy is something that one you do when you're on the verge of divorce and to it's something that you're in forever until you get a divorce and that's sad. It really is a stitch in time saves nine. You've got a small problem. Go to therapy. Help prevent it from becoming a big one. Adam thank you for talking about your wife on our podcast. We appreciate having you here. Thank you for having me. It was fun Kendall. Thank you for also sharing a little bit about your life with Gabe. I think there are still a million questions that I could ask you. Maybe we will need to future episodes about some of these things but it's always helpful learning from the lady that lives directly with Gabe. Sounds very ominous. You're very very welcome. Jackie what was it like having your spouse on the show it's fun it's always fun to do a new thing or share part of a thing you do with your spouse but it doesn't mean it's not difficult at times to kind of hear the honest truth behind those things. I still feel like that's why you have to have really hard important. Conversations we've had some of these conversations station's not on the air together and. I think that everybody should do that even if it hurts. You WanNa give your spouse the space to say how they're feeling in this relationship ship because otherwise it's always only about you and that's not fun for anybody. The things that I like about doing stuff like this is people are often surprised at how Kendall and is marriage actually really works. I think it's safe to say we're both pretty lucky. Gabe it's tough. Marriage and relationships are tough hard. Stop so so. Many people think that marriage is tough. Because you have a mental illness or marriage is tough because you have a mental health issue. No we just have to manage this as well but listen every every couple has something. Some couples are managing children. They're managing divorce. They're managing money issues. They're managing religious differences. They're managing in laws that are evolved vol- I would really caution you against blaming all of your relationship problems on your mental health issues because what you're essentially saying is as if suddenly all of your mental illnesses went away your marriage would be perfect. That kind of sounds like bullshit. Because I want you to know that even if there was a cure for bipolar disorder. Tomorrow Tomorrow Kendall would still not load the dishwasher correctly that has nothing to do with bipolar disorder. I agree Gabe if you think that mental illness is is the only issue in your relationship I would strongly encourage you to take another look at your relationship because every relationship has its issues and by removing one thing. You're not going to solve all of those problems. I could not agree more and after you are taking a hard look at your relationship we want you to take a hard look at where you download unloaded this podcast. Because there is a subscribe rank and review button reviews with as many stars. You can use your words and tell people why you like the the show and subscribe so you don't miss any great episodes. Thank you everybody and we will see you next week bye. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit psych central dot com non crazy crazy. Official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with game go to gain power dot com to work the Jackie go to Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels. Well have given Jackie recording episode. Live in your next event. Email show at psych central dot com for details. Yeah I think we did good. Yeah two hours hour and a half and and we've recorded now for an hour and ten minutes. We always turned in thirty five minute files. Yeah we're going to arrays. Is there anything else that this show needs before of US singing up. Yeah I mean. Where's the love Ohio? It's Lisa hang on. Hang on hang on. Hang on at least We could stop recording now. Hey we just got done recording the spouse else episode and it's only an hour and fifteen minutes. We're still recording right now. So when you listen listen to this back. That's smarmy common insulting Kendall and Adams hard work dedication and love will be on the recording it on the counter three. Let's stop the recording one. Okay I just did. That's okay. Make better choices by Asshole to three.

Gabe Jackie Gabin Kendall Adam bipolar disorder Jack Zimmerman Google steve Jackie Lakes Detroit US McDonalds Jackie Zimmerman Dot Lisa Colitis depression Ary Official Gavin Ohio
It's See You Later, Not Goodbye

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

29:23 min | 5 months ago

It's See You Later, Not Goodbye

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard welcome not crazy fans. I would like to introduce my co-host Jackie and my co host. Gabe and we have some sad and Jackie. We have good news and bad news. Which do you want first. We have like Shit Sandwich. Right right. Looks up the no no. We don't have shit sandwich. I what I don't even understand what that means. Isn't it like two pieces of bread with Shit in the middle so like two good things surrounded by Shit? Is this a millennial thing? I don't know this was a derby thing anyway. We have good news and simple question. Do you want the good news with the bad news? Good news the good news is the show is going to continue. You have to go over to central DOT COM SLASH. Not Crazy and resubscribe as not crazy two point. Zero is rising from the ashes of and now. We're getting to the bad news. This is my last episode mom. Jackie is leaving. I feel like all of my co-host leave me. Maybe it's you I mean I am the only constant even the name is changed. I can't even blame it on the name I just. I don't know what's happening super said okay. Look I I recognize that that everything is on a spectrum except for maybe spectrums are spectrums on a spectrum. I have no idea. This is but this is not sad. Can we talk about what's allegedly sad? Oh what is allegedly? Sad is America's lack of knowledge about the basics of science which is probably gotten us into this entire cove nineteen debacle. Yeah but also. Jackie is leaving us one. When you say it like that it sounds sad see. Everything's on a spectrum. I feel like we need to give context in a way that we generally don't on the show right. Yes yes okay. Yeah if you go back and you listen to the great episode. That came out after Christmas where I said. Hey Jackie. How's your Christmas? GonNa let you in on a little secret. We recorded that in November. So Christmas hadn't happened yet so Jackie had to guess that she had a good Christmas in fairness. I love home blaming you. You asked me how my Christmas was and I had to guess as well. You deny you know. Our predictions were very good. We said we had a good Christmas. And Hay Lo and behold we had a good good all. The people who I said annoyed me they did in fact annoy me so this is going to air in the middle of. May but it's actually the the middle of April were still under quarantine. I'm in Ohio which is shelter in place. Jackie is in Michigan which is shelter in place and everybody hates her governor And there's riots on the streets except they're wearing the masks so it's it's it's really like a a cognitive distortion of the highest order whereas viruses both fake but they still wear a mask to protect themselves from it. So it's weird. That's what's happening as we're recording this. Do you remember the movie The accuracy right everybody? Here's the thing though. This is worse than idiosyncrasy. We watched that movie and we were like. Oh that's a stupid. People are so dumb whenever anybody does something dumb we call it idiosyncrasy but like this is like if Idi accuracy was like times. Ten is what these people are doing. Anyway I digress. But we're bringing this up because we can't predict the future normally we can you know how's your summer going? Jackie how were your holidays and and you know we we touch on the basics because we know that there's a four week lead time but there's a four weekly time so yeah. I don't I'M GONNA pretend. The quarantine is over and that neither Jackie. I have corona and that were safe and healthy and that. I'm back to sitting in McDonald's because I I'm trying to have for the first time in my bipolar life. On optimistic outlook solid. Jackie where do you think will be in a month on? My hope is that that my business is still doing really well. Because that's one of the contributing factors here too is. I am one of the fortunate people in this time doing very very well. I'm super busy And I hope that there continue so a month from now. I hope I'm just you know rolling in the dough like a quin Tarantino movie minus the murderer parts but just the money the murderer parts. I think are the corona virus. Yeah Yeah So. I don't want those parts. Don't want those parts. Yeah I just want the money parts and the busy parts and the like. Maybe I don't know I don't even want to say that. I hope that we're out of our houses in a month because I can't confidently say that. I think that that's a good idea so I just hope that I'm still in business making money. That's what I'm GONNA say. They're corona virus was impacted a lot of things in ways that we just can't even imagine obviously our ability to travel around the country book speaking engagements. I is is. I use the word decimated which I've been told is is just a a very extreme word for postponed. But I feel like it's been decimated. I feel like the thing that you know what it is Jackie. This isn't just my job. It's my purpose. I do make money off of it. It's how I eat. It's how I buy nice things. That's how I go on vacation but the reason that I do this is because it's my thing it's my purpose. So yeah the money is gone for me but the the purpose is gone and yes yes. I believe that it will come back but it's necessitated just just an incredible number of changes in just in the way things work you know podcast traffic surprisingly and shockingly or maybe not surprisingly and not shockingly is down. It's down a lot the way that people can soom. Podcasts is somewhat unique. I find this whole point that you're about to make to be incredibly interesting because you have proclaimed that you do not listen to podcasts. So you predicting podcast. Behavior is bizarre. I'm explaining poorly. Jackie you are correct I am looking at stats and I subscribed to attracting service as as most high end podcast. Do that look at trends across the industry and across the industry podcast. Traffic is down. Because of the way people interact with podcast podcasts or a very intimate medium but even though there are very intimate medium people still want to be driving to work. They still want to be going to the gym. They STILL WANNA be cleaning their house. Most people I are not sitting perfectly still listening to the show and doing nothing else. They're listening while they do something that's that but people aren't doing a lot of other things right now. Even the people who are stuck at home they can't listen to a podcast because their kids are underfoot or their spouses underfoot or their roommates are underfoot or like me. They've just given up and decided to stop cleaning underfoot. Grandpa GABE underfoot really. What would you say you correct that sentence in in cool aunt? Jackie speak their kids annoying. Their spouses are annoying there. In the way they're the worst at. Oh my okay but I do. Listen to podcasts. A lot and when we were talking about kind of watching the numbers and seeing them kind of dip a bit I realize. I'm not listening to podcasts. I'm definitely I don't even commute to work anymore. But when I did. I listen to a lot of PODCASTS. On my commute into a lot of podcast when I drive to the doctor wherever I'm going and you know sometimes like here and there when I'm cooking but I'm not doing any of that anymore. One atom is home all the time so he cooks everything. Because I'm very lucky And I'm not driving anywhere and even if I am right now like I don't really wanNA listen to a podcast. You know like this is what we talk about. All the time now is what's happening in the world and I'm living it every day so I don't necessarily WanNa talk about it any more than I already have to just like. Our podcast did a lot of shows on corona on quarantine on anxiety on our feelings on the mental health surrounding it it. It's hard to produce this content in a timely manner as we said it's it's about four weeks from recording to Aaron in in a perfect world. You can get that number down if you spend more time more money but like anything. Once you start rushing things well you start rushing things. It's fascinating to me Jackie. Because so many people are like I don't why it's so hard you just record like a half an hour a week. Great Your podcast is a half an hour time commitment. Rate Alamo. Look Yeah Yeah One. No just just going to hard. Stop that right there. No for what it's worth. We've officially been recording for twelve and a half minutes but we have been on the call for over an hour right and that that the time we spend together so usually if there's forty five minutes to an hour before we start recording then there's the recording time but before that there's the emails back and forth. What's this week's topic going to be? And then once we land on topic which you know tex emails maybe a conversation etc then we both go our separate ways and and obviously since we're doing a farewell episode and talking about. Hey you know I'm GonNa Miss You. Jackie lands cute notice. She didn't say anything. I just why. Why do my co-host hate me false? Your coworkers do not as the only co host. I can actively speak four. Which is myself? I do not hate you at all and I I will miss recording this podcast. I do enjoy doing it. It's a boatload of work like we just talked about but I do like doing it. It's something that's fun to do but it's not It's not all the glamorous nece that everybody thinks it is you know it's there's a lot of back end work that goes into making this thing come out for thirty minutes every week. And before Corona virus that work was paying off it was it was trending in that direction. That the numbers were fantastic. The emails were fantastic. The bookings were fantastic. You know what we launched the psych central podcast live campaign like two weeks before the shit hit the fan. Of course we did. You guys remember that legs. Anybody know that there was A. There's a whole website and there was a public relations campaign and all of that time and energy is going to have to be duplicated. Repeated repackaged at some point in the future and that point is probably a year from now. And I'm not trying to throw you under the bus Jackie but not crazy two point. Oh I'm still going to be on your not so jackie jump ship she left. She's like Oh my God. I can't put another year into the build up because she has another business. She has other things to do. And you know I in this way. We everybody's focusing on covert nineteen in the worst possible. Light and death is very very scary. I'm not minimizing that in any way but I don't think people are talking about some of the secondary effects you know things like people losing the businesses that they've built up for a long long time some people their entire lives. They're not talking about people who missed their senior year of high school and I understand that compared the death. This isn't that big of a deal because yeah I I would miss my senior year of high school to bring back any member of my family for five minutes for five minutes. Yes but this still does represent a loss and this is one of those losses. Yeah it is and to your point of businesses going under and let's say relief fun hobbies that are also kind of like a business kind of going under. That's why right now like I can't slow in my business you know like. I can't say that we're going to. We're going to work to rebuild this up because I have business so I. I have to make sure that I'm like putting everything into it because not everybody has that right now and I wanna make sure that I can hold onto that as long as I can because small businesses are just dwindling every day. And I don't want to be one of them. You know what I'm most sad about. Adam never wrote US arrived. Adam is retired rapper Gabe. He's retired. Listen I am forty three years old and would you like the list of all of the musical people who retired and went on a farewell tour? That then came back again. I I have been to kiss his farewell tour like six times. Yeah but they're bad and Adam is really good so see so he is primed it remember when Michael Jordan retired. Michael Jordan came back. I'm just saying yeah. I'm just saying well. Do you WanNa podcast now and release the episode on time. Yeah I mean you could write it. Why don't you write it? You could be a rapper. No don't say that anybody can be a rapper. Didn't it's like how everybody thinks that they can be a podcast. That say anybody can be a rapper. I said you already have a beat and a song and so you could rewrite it but you know this is digressing quite a bit Because I'm all about that. Cast about that cast the cast. Yeah because it's like base. I don't know what to put for trouble. Like no static mall about that okay. Maybe you can't be a rapper. Because that was a pretty bad Anyway well this is. This is getting. This is getting bad. If the point that you're lost my co host. The whole world is quarantined. Maybe or maybe it's over. I Dunno know where we are going to be in the future. Aliens have landed the point. You're trying to make. Is that while I will be running my little tail off trying to be a business person. The show will go on. We'll be right back after these messages. Interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field. Give listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay powered visit. Psych central dot com slash show also subscribed to the Psych Central. Podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better health dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling. All counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days. A free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych central. We are back for my last episode and discussing. Not Crazy two point. Oh this show is what a what a kids call it. Re-booting it's rebooting is not crazy to plano the same title same same General Theme. It is moving feeds. You have to go over to psych central dot com slash crazy resubscribe on the new tunes feet and the new spotify feeds. We'll just all the all the fees it's it. It's very very important. That if you think that you are going to hear Gabe and his new co host on this feed You're not so please please please head over to central DOT COM SLASH. Not Crazy and click all the little buttons to sign up on whatever podcast player you have been subscribing to but Jackie. Do you want to introduce the new car? I mean. She's not here now but she is well known to the show. I feel like the best way to introduce. Her is just to say this. Sorry Lisa sorry. Sorry Lisa Yeah like so many. We've been apologizing to Lisa since the beginning of the show and we thought it was for like like all the edits and post work that she was going to have to do but it turns out that you're apologizing for dumping her on with her ex husband after you left well okay so for those who don't know what we're talking about. Lisa is our editor. She also just happens to be games ex wife who he somehow maintains a very solid friendship with so when we screw up which happens all the time there are recordings of. Us saying sorry lease. I think she's used them as outtakes. But Lisa is going to fill in this role and I actually think this is going to be really great. Because not only. Does Lisa have the perspective of living with mental illness. But she's also been a really amazing care partner right. She's watched you go through the depths of being bipolar. She super educated. She's very involved in the mental illness. Community Lisa has a very unique perspective. And meanwhile she superman she kind of trying to avoid us. She's Super Mean. She hates you a little bit but like she's super mean no she's not. I don't think Lisa Superman were codependent. Were codependence remember when you first met Lisa and you said you know I think that you and Lisa might be a little bit codependent and I said you think you think you were smarter Jackie. We are totally codependent. And the fact that you can't figure that out really makes me think less of you. Do you remember that conversation? It was at roosters when we were watching. Ufc Oh actually totally. Don't remember that conversation but I mean I. It was an awesome conversation. We laugh about it every I can confirm that you are definitely codependent. So look forward to episodes about that in the future we are both happily remarried to other people and there's nobody would bat an eye at the friendship that Leeson I have if she was male if we were the same sex. So it's interesting. I don't think that our friendship could exist forty years ago. So it's cool. It's cool. That twenty twenty can be friends with members of the opposite sex because really did give way for us to find where we actually belong because we don't belong as a married couple and I will say that when I first found out that Lisa who I only knew as our editor only knew three emailing at the time was your ex wife. I was like Whoa. Whoa WHOA I need the story on this. What come again one more time and you told me what happened. It was like no no no but like you guys are still friends. Okay so your wife must hate her right and she doesn't. I was like well. Her husband must totally hate you and he doesn't so then I was like okay but like that's just what you say and then I saw you guys all the person and it's true. There's no like weirdness. There's no like kind of like bitchy side is like you guys are all just buddies and it is so bizarre but like also very cool. I think one of the perspectives. That Lisa will bring aside from her own perspective. I mean I I do not want to discount that Lisa is her own person has her own perspective and she can hold her own in an argument discussion debate with anybody in the world. It's one of the cool and awful things about Lisa so I don't WanNa make Lisa all about Gabe. I want to be very very clear that Lisa's her own person with their own thoughts and opinions. But Lisa's also known me for twenty years and I know that Lisa as my editor she. She's listened to hundreds of shows podcasts. Videos and things that I've made because she edits them all to make me sound just fantastic and the number of emails that I get from her where she's like. Hey Jackie ask you what your favorite color was and you said purple. You know that's not true. You like Red. And You told me that you rented you remember. That went. Red Happened and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. And it's interesting because she's known me for so long that it's fascinating. How often she calls me out on my bullshit. Not because she suspects it but because she was there when it happened and she remembers it from her perspective. And I remember it from my perspective and I think it's GonNa make for some very unique conversations. Jackie was not there when I went to the psychiatric hospital. So just imagine that conversation with instead of Jackie asking me how I felt if the person asking me the questions was there. I'm kind of excited for that because I can only see things through the eyes of somebody who is in crisis with bipolar disorder. Lisa sees that whole story through the eyes of the person who tricked me to get in a car and saved my life. Well that's a very different perspective and Lisa's perspective and her experience is one that one. No one knows you has ever heard right like it's not like you throw her up on a stage generally galeazzo dummy what that was like and also. It's not one here a lot in general you know. We hear about care partners a lot of times though it's parents of Children. We don't often hear a lot about what happens when you have to go. Okay this is not going well and you're right. How do I trick him into getting care? I for one am fascinated and cannot wait to hear that we are sincerely hoping that this provides a unique voice in the space. And you're right. We see a lot of you know mom and Dad Husband and wife parent and child extended family. You see like sibling teams. I can't think of a single ex husband and ex wife mental health team because usually when the divorce happens. When the break-up happens the hurt feelings are so tremendous there's nothing to salvage and it. There's a ton of hurt feelings. Those are going to be my favorite shows all the hurt feelings but usually those people can't work together so they end up telling the story away from each other. I would tell the story about my ex spouse who left me and she would tell the story about her mentally ill ex spouse who screwed it all up and we couldn't interact. I'm just saying generally speaking people who break up. Don't rehash the relationships publicly. No and if they do rehash them publicly not unhealthy way now and they definitely don't do it like you know for less than a billion dollars on a reality. Tv show so listen reality hosts for a billion dollars. I would do the amazing race. I mean I mean the reality is. Nobody's getting paid a billion dollars on reality. Tv they get like six hundred dollars. An episode what biggest six hundred dollars. That's a lot. I think they get like between sick. Whatever it doesn't matter that's off the point. The point is That's not that's not podcast. Money that's good. Money lease is going to be the new co host. She's Gabes ex wife. She knows a lot about Mental illness and I think that it's going to be a great show. Jackie obviously I agree that Lisa and I are going to work well together. And it's it's we've reached the point in our relationship where we can do it. We've obviously worked on the podcast with Lisa behind the scenes for a number of years. I think people would really be surprised at how long Lisa has been around. This is the first time she asked to be on the microphone so I I don't know what changed in her life but hey she's getting braver or she's just got like like a lot of trauma that she wants to add publicly and I'm about to. I'm about to hit a firestorm of of awful but either way I think it's GonNa be fun but listen you need to go to psych center dot com slash. Not Crazy and resubscribe to all the new FEED SAKE. Cetera DOT com slash. Not Crazy Jackie. I'M GONNA miss the hell out of you. I only have one question left. Sort of become a tradition whenever one of my co host to ask this question which is why we put it all the way at the end but before I asked you have anything to say. What do you want to say to the listeners? Honestly it's really hard to come up with something like poignant in awesome on the spot to say to people who are important to you and our listeners are important to me so I don't have a very eloquent like here's my partying wishes for all of you instead I'll say I'm still online everywhere. All the places my websites Jackie Zimmerman DOT Co. I have all the social things you can find me everywhere if you ever need like a website or an email campaign. I could totally do that for you too. I think our listeners are great. We've gotten a lot of really great emails in feedback and well wishes and does and that's been a really really cool thing from being a part of this podcast. Obviously you can go to Jackie's website. Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Two e. mail her you can also email show at central dot com and we will forward over so. I promise that any nice thing that you say Jackie. She will get Jackie. I have one more question. Hemi me what advice do you have for my new CO host? I think that it would be impossible. And maybe downright irresponsible for me to try to give a person who's known you for twenty years who's been married to you and has supported you through your whole life any advice about working with you. She knows everything. I got nothing that she doesn't already know. She knows everything. That's like super scary like him. As you said that I was like. Does she know everything and then I thought. Wow she knows like my banking. She's the person that if I die is GONNA come clear my browser history. I mean she has a very important role the only advice that I would give to. Lisa is that when you're recording. Don't hit your desk because Lisa gets really pissed off about that. When she's editing the podcast. Oh what what. What are the things? She hits us up every week. Don't hit your desk. Don't smack your mic getting better on verbal crutches or you're getting worse on verbal crutches your sniffling is too much remember when we both had the cough. I thought she was gonNA quit that week. That was I think this is going to be great. But remember. You're not gonNA hear any of it if you don't go to central dot com slash not crazy and sign up for the new feed. Jackie first off will will you come back. I mean you're you're going to come back as a guest from time to time right. There's going to be something that you WanNa talk about and you will come and debate it with us because you're not dying. You're just you're just busy but of course yes. Excellent what you have a standing invitation to be on not crazy two point. Oh whenever you want to come back so I hope you'll be here my final question and I know I promised the other question was final but I just I just have to know. I've wondered really since we started working together. The Blue Hair. Is that your natural hair color or do you. Di- wow well is case. You can't tell. We have been quarantined for well over a month now and the roots are not blue. So no Jackie. That's awesome all right. Listen up everybody. Here's what I need you to do. I need you to go over to psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy. There'll be a whole bunch of buttons there to sign up for the new feeds not crazy. Two Point Oh it's GonNa be awesome. Lisa's GONNA be there. I'm going to be there. We're GONNA do really really really really really cool things. But of course you won't hear any of it if you don't subscribe over on psych central dot com slash not crazy. We'll see everybody in the brave new world. Hope you're all doing okay. So long and farewell like this so good at this now got. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy to work with gate go to gain power dot com to work. The Jackie goes to Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels well Gabe. Jackie recording episode live at your next event email show and psych central dot com for details. Why think Lisa's going to be a really great co host? And then you should see us and then we should wrap it up because we're just gonNA keep repeating the same shit over and over if we don't agree because I figure you will probably want to say everybody goodbye. Here's how you find me. I'm not going away. I still have my website. You know just like promote all of your shit in a big pile because you have lots of stuff that people should want. And all of the episodes. We'll stay online. It occurred to me that somebody might think. Oh well if the show is going off the air. I don't really need to listen to these two idiots given me a wrap up of what happens is I think it's I think it's a fun question. Well I have an answer. You may not like it but continue. No no hold on what no no. We're almost done. Fuck you corona virus. That get my house. Fuck you okay.

Jackie Lisa Grandpa GABE Jackie Zimmerman Dot Lisa Yeah Jackie Zimmerman Jack Zimmerman America Lisa Superman editor spotify US Hay Lo Ufc quin Tarantino Ohio McDonald plano
Haunted Asylums - Stigmatizing or Just Entertainment?

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

28:41 min | 1 year ago

Haunted Asylums - Stigmatizing or Just Entertainment?

"And here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard hello and welcome to not crazy I'm here with my co host who is gay powered you're listening to nine crazy. A psych central podcast Eh haunted asylum or haunted house with with crazy psychos is an actual representation of mental illness. I'm sorry I think that it is so of it but I I'm sorry I I really just have a hard time believing that any rational or reasonable person thinks that serious mental health advocacy point one that always makes national headlines a big massive organizations take this on to fight that asylums are offensive like the portrayal of mental illness in them the subconscious things that they are giving to the people who attend them news articles there are various people who have attended these things and walked in and been massively triggered first of all by what was happening ended by everything and it's okay like I genuinely and honestly feel like this is one of those things that is just not that big of a D it's a real serious thing in mental health advocacy is it that serious I know we're doing an episode on this but is this really a thing that happens every year that over the top that it is obviously not anything except for a Halloween fun thing I read a lot of articles about this because of course I did and talking about that much every year it makes national news every year makes the local news the national news it makes the paper I read about this issue Connolly haunted asylums and I have feelings you have feelings on everything and I in a previous episode you said that the best part about being a young blonde white woman is that you can be is one where this woman took her two small sons she lives with mental illness she'd been hospitalized in left in her son's asked her is that what happened when you went into the House with depression but when I invited her to my Halloween party she said Oh hell no they'll be kids there I don't like kids thing hey kids you are not required scared it's fun it's a holiday I just I understand that there's nuance there's a nuance debate to be had here and we're not going to have title and she had to sort of undo what they just saw and teach them the correct things about her hospitalizations it's not so much that I think people walk in and they go oh this is that based on all the things that you said but also because I have this lovely platform where I can tell people how offended I am and win them over so in this scenario I do think that read the paper I mean online I really online paper who was a paper right in the ditch the digital paper digital paper we're talking about what happens to people with mental illness or this is what happens in the hospital it's more or less that what people are walking away with is that people with mental illness are dangerous bill it's just not that offensive I I'm sorry it's not you know Gabe first of all I am offended by everything and I'm allowed to do to like children now as the audiences probably figured out we're doing a Halloween episode and we decided to take the most is to scare people it's a Halloween attraction you plopped down your five ten fifteen twenty twenty five dollars because some of these things are just really elaborate and you go into I just don't feel like they're helping anything what's the point what's the point I love that you said what's the point because the point is not mental health advocacy the point Oh come after you and it's like sub-conscious thought process I don't think anybody leaves feeling endanger I think it's one more thing that society crams and except that it's not society's responsibility to make sure that every single person is not triggered or bothered or offended or I mean sincerely where does that end I am from Ohio you are from Michigan I am offended by Michigan because of a football rivalry that started before my grant brain subconsciously that tells us to be people with mental illness that is probably true I I honestly can't think of anything that is untrue in that statement right and when they go to the hospital all these dangerous things happen if they take over or they become in control they'll Chichi with chainsaws and the punched in the face at like full power twenty thirty times no problem people get shot and they're OK and father was born I am offended listen you don't have to not be from Michigan or mentioned Michigan around me and frankly if I since just haunted hospitals or hospitals I dunno other names that I don't remember but it's taking away this part of it that is directed specifically to make sure that you never mentioned your home state around me it's my response to like find a way to deal with this and your example you actually said she health issues allow okay yeah all right next okay fair point I can't argue with that point I still think that the I believe this crazy football person although Michigan sucks it is important to understand that if I actually treated you poorly your response to that is not floor parking garage land on the ground and keep going that's utter nonsense we see movies where people get into fights and just get just to get information why is that not the talking point why is the talking point not Americans are stupid and keep relying on fiction to get their facts that is talking of the mental illness community this would never fly in cancer if you walked into a haunted house and there was an OSTEO sarcoma patient on a table and somebody with a chain in conjunction with inpatient treatment and they just chug that in the back of their head and go okay well this is what happens in inpatient facilities you're not wrong Lee at the mental illness community and I think that's really important because not only are they showing these really awful things that people are going mental illness Kurt children to a haunted house with violence and murder and had to explain to her young children really where's the responsibility on her. So there's some onus on the people who are setting up these haunted houses haunted asylums Cedar Fair which is a company that owns like Cedar Point or some of these other really large water is okay violence is okay haunted things killing you and scaring you are okay but she didn't like the tie into mental taunted asylums but I think that is the point because haunted asylums make national news every single year every single year they become an advocacy point names that they're giving them a words matter right so calling it a haunted asylum or even like a haunted mental institution some of these things have horrible names they're changing them rush wound pop culture is not a good place to get information it just isn't and this is an example of that this is not a good talking about society here again where society doesn't know a lot about inpatient treatment they know what they learn in movies and they know what they learn on television shows this is one more thing that society sees wjr amusement parks that do haunted things in October have started changing the names of them it's not so much what they are doing in them it's the there's not a season for mental illness right there's a season for Halloween that's why it makes the news because it's relevant and current it also I mean again you're not wrong but people are doing this they are going to pop culture for information how many times people said Oh I know about that I saw it on grey's anatomy or he's a good headline mental illness a whole lack of resources homelessness all of these things happen all the time year round were completely desensitize were they they remove your brain point might team all look what you did and don't you think to some extent that these representations of Mental Hospital I'm saying that if society really believes society really believes that people with mental illness are responsible for all the violence why are we doing so little to help goals in these haunted asylums are scaring people away if they actually need treatment there is where you're going to win another point because yes yes they can't get any single resources and yet strangely hello national media why are we covering these people I don't know maybe it's because the doubly offensive to me we have so many people who are in harm's way that it's not newsworthy anymore but you're right haunted a silence oh I do but let me ask you this Jackie on the side of mental asylums offensive which do you think keeps people away from treatment haunted mental asylum is to completely decimate the mental health safety net and just let them all walk around homeless untracked and consequence free now I'm not saying that all people with mental illness or homeless but every single day in this country every single day somebody with mental illness will die because they don't have resources and it's not there is an information everywhere for example on television we see cars routinely driven off of the third then mental illness I'm going to disagree with you there because we've all seen the crazy surgeon I guess crazy is in there you're right I guess I guess mental illnesses there ah was cutting their leg off and then that person chase you around and was like I'm GonNa cut your leg off because you have cancer that wouldn't happen that doesn't happen for any other illness other in house people are learning from the shows and again it's not so much the violence which that's like a whole other thing it's the representation and this is why I'm not saying it's right that we're desensitized to it in fact I think it's absolutely fucking terrible that we are desensitized to it but we are that's why we're here that's why -tations we give people around mental illness have to do with things that they've learned in pop culture in haunted asylums where we don't think that they deserve funding they don't deserve nobody cares anymore about these terrible things that are happening to even people like veterans right we're supposed to really care about our veterans and we just don't don't we don't give a shit but when something happens say hey that is not true every sporting event that I go to we always stand serve help because they're all crazy dangerous and they're going to hurt everybody anyway let's talk about that for a moment I love that you walked right into that trend so you believe that society believes that every single person with mental illness is dangerous and violent and a threat to us and the response to that ace to it it's not newsworthy anymore I completely agree with that I don't know what that has to do with whether or not haunted asylums or offensive but I can tell you that that is increased that we're getting upset about I don't think are the root cause of the problem I cannot get around the idea that haunted asylums have offensive parts to them the problem let's talk about that some more I'm not saying haunted asylums or the entire problem but you mentioned why is this not in the news more why are we talking about haunted asylums in the news you don't do enough for our veterans okay well you know you win that one game but it is analogous rate we have veterans that were not giving enough resources to engages thinking well shit I have put a lot of time into becoming a mental health advocate I don't want to end my career so yes islands I guess we'll be and we're back debating haunted asylums but doesn't it bother you ever when people think about mental health mental illness tree that's not making the news but somebody kneels in front of a flag oh my God the veterans the Veterans and again I'm not trying to open up that debate please don't let just the things this or severe lack of funding and resources for people with mental illness well obviously I'm going to pick the resources but that's not the topic of this show Gabe you think that lobotomies are still regularly practiced in all of these stereotypes that are perpetuated in the news in the media in haunted asylums everything is exploited everything why is mental illness so special what about all of these other awful things that happen I can't wait until I do because as soon as I think that this is worth my time it means everything is resolved all of this other stuff has been fixed put visit psych central dot com slash show also subscribed to the psych central podcast on your favorite podcast player this risotto sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are licensed accredited professionals anything you share is confidential no no those staying home because the Honda silent scared that no they are trying their families are trying they are working desperately to get well it's an interesting thing that you said you said doesn't it bother you that people think that it's still true does it bother you that people think that this is still being done isn't the history of all of these things that some people think some of this stuff is still real when people talk to you about your treatment doesn't it bother you schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it's needed a month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face to face session apple you think maybe they don't believe that you think maybe that society doesn't actually believe that no I think society doesn't think about it I don't think that they care in hospitals you recognize that what you said is that at one point in American history all of the stuff that's currently happening haunted asylums actually happened they're not based on false they're based on fact they're based on facts from the past but they're still based on facts we lobotomize p listen for real nothing that you said is wrong but nothing that I have said is wrong and I don't know where the middle ground on that is person who's been discriminated against and stigmatized against and frankly just treated like shit because of an illness that I didn't ask for it's a god awful misunderstood the onus but I want to be very very clear haunted asylums and haunted houses yeah they they didn't factor in one iota to my suffering and spending he's been doesn't that bother you Jackie isn't that just a big Gut Punch that rape and murder is used for our entertainment oh my God so what is mental illness Special Watch snapped or forensic files I don't feel that way when I watch law and order and there's two versions of that one where they follow murders around for our amusement one where they follow rapists around for like a terrible Gut Punch that people are using the Bottomley's and shock treatments for entertainment value. Yeah but I don't feel that way when I read a true crime novel you're right we're never going to erase the attraction to violence we're never going to have society go this is all appalling let's stop paying to go watch people get cut up on anyway I don't know about that gave it it might not help you personally but what is the harm any racing just the verbiage haunted asylum and turning into haunted hospital right using haunted asylums the outrage about haunted asylums to further our message I just want to go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you better help dot com forward slash psych central with mental illness. You're right now it is an attraction and you know that that's kind of weird feeling about a lot of things weird it's a weird feeling isn't that discuss why people believe this why can't any of the articles go with you know in the not too distant past this haunted that could potentially happen that's probably true and if we had a pop culture podcast we do a hell of an episode on it focusing in on us and they're based on stereotypes and myths and things that aren't true I will give you that you win I just don't think that this is a big advocacy point at all frankly table it's not going to happen but what we can do a very simple quick fix is removing the tie to mental illness and then walking away from it the veterans now we cut all their funding in the VA hospitals have maggots in the bit no every single sporting event we always have a moment of silence so don't tell me that are idiots and a lot of what we see in pop culture in general entertainment not that we look and go that's real grand theft auto honestly thought that the government was going to put me in a group home or stormy away I thought I was a disposable person all because I heard the phrase Sir Right back after these messages from our sponsors interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field G- and listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay past any time trying to a radically eight the haunted asylum problem yeah it's not GonNa help Gabe Howard in any way and truthfully I don't think it's going to help anybody silom would have just been asylum we did do lobotomies we did give people medication against their will are these haunted asylums it's scary people go there to be scared yes it's dressed up now and it's almost comical how bad the costuming is talking point that could come out of this you're buying a ticket to the haunted asylum because it scares you and it is a game for you and you know that you're free to leave and brain whether you like it or not and that goes for everybody else who sees that information why why is that reasonable in general when we see things advised ticket maybe they'll have more compassion and understanding for people battling mental illness today tomorrow and the next day because you bought the I am telling you as a person who lives with severe and persistent mental illness as a person who has been blamed for violence as a person who has been fired from his job as are you have bipolar disorder I almost feel like you're you're fighting on my side of this argument a little bit in your discussion about the past and what happened and l. of what happened and we know that this was a real history and we know that it was really terrible what we did to those people who had no say in in their treatment plans get because you're scared of mental illness and you don't live with it you're just a tourist I live with it that's why I'm scared and that's why telling me to do uh-huh go for a walk or commune with nature isn't GonNa work because at the end of the hour I'm not done I don't get my picture taken I don't get a that guy who is getting electroshock therapy that was scary and then we're going to move on with our lives nobody looks at it and goes well this is an unrealistic portrayed there is no clear winner here that is honestly how I see it some of what you just said I don't understand I can't fathom how you can say that you can choose whether or not you go in there but they're going to advertise it on billboards they're gonNA put it everywhere they're going to continue to subconsciously shove that information into your complex and people don't do well with nuance because I think even as people are listening to me to like I don't understand my on game site or Jackie side but the root of it is that these hospitals were scary mental illness is scary we gonna go there to see people who are going to scare us and we're gonNA leave going man these haunted asylums in the other silly names that they use the proprietors of these things changing the names or removing scenes from them that perpetuate these there I really do think we do sincerely I mean honestly I don I don't know that I agree with you on that one I think society as a whole Knbr hits and I can you know celebrate Thanksgiving that's what I have all year round I want there to be a better understanding of that or I want people to only happens but we have takeaways where they like they implanted in your brain and you just think that is a thing or that is reasonable or things like that hop culture we think oh that's not going to have it we all know that cars can't do that we all know that people can't get shot and call it a flesh wound we understand that there's some differences legit a complete and utter nonsense and it's just a way to have fun and society exploits everything to have fun and to make money and this way they're treating me like an equal it's very how we need to talk about that those are the things that people are afraid of they're afraid of what happened in those hospitals that's why they're using it as the basis and that's where I really get stuck on when I'm having this conversation year after year after year after year you know what I'd actually like I was that doesn't happen all they leave with is that's a scary thing and what are we gonNa have for dinner now I don't know what people actually leave with when they say but let's talk about another the reason that you're scared is because psychiatric care and mental illness is scary if we can connect all those things together in the minds of every single person retainment only you should take a moment to consider that people that live with these illnesses need resources and support that society may not be providing them life but it could change the lives of one or two people who maybe are too afraid to get treatment now who have to explain this to their families well there is a lot of psychiatric trauma in the past of people with mental illness that we have to acknowledge when I was first diagnosed I and still think that it doesn't matter that these things exist everything you just said about your experience about the takeaway that is perpetuated by these terrible freaking place able things it's not like this is an unattainable goal this is a relatively simple thing that may or may not have a large impact it may not change your daily life or my daily were still abusing psychiatric patients and these are just the things that I think about every October when all of these things make national news says and it just makes me want to like choke you a little bit like shake you of Gabi just proved my point in your sentence and then you unproved something hand out a little card when everybody leaves I think that there is an opportunity to educate people with the correct information after they see the misinformation you wanted to change the conversation I think removing these things helps us to change the conversation because the conversation right now is this is what happens in Mental Hospitals Jackie we also want you to stick around after the credits and listen to our hilarious outtake that's put together by Lisa are tortured editor that does a great job putting these I don't disagree if all of the names were changed tomorrow I don't think that would be a bad thing but I also don't think it would be a good thing I think it would be irrelevant thing I think it would just be a thing that happened portrayal designed to scare you and the reason that it's scary is because mental illness is a frightening disorder and while we are providing this as Jackie recording episode live at your next event emails show at Psych Central Dot Com for details and we're back blake all of these haunted asylums to put up a sign and I would like that sign to say this is fiction this is a stereo typical I E bipolar anything it's not fake blood and fake tears and acting it's my life and yeah it's not done as soon as shen and places aren't doing that but instead we're trying to erase our history we're trying to erase the part where we abused psychiatric patients we're trying to erase the view and use your words it helps raise us in the rankings and we will see everybody next week you've been listening to not crazy think and the listeners can email us at show central dot com and give us their opinions disagree with me disagree with Jackie it's okay we want the conversation to continue lease visit your local and then boom get a mental health charity to not sponsor but but be there to hand out information or just just have the brochure or the website or did two sentences later I'll give it a lot I just don't think we're GONNA make it go away I don't even think that's worthwhile goal worth trying but it's not unreasonable there are stories about easy that's Vu l. y. p. l. a. y. dot com slash en dash a you dash trampolines and listen are out takes sponsor Sakib listening hey not crazy fans it turns out that we like jumping up and down on trampolines trampolines are pretty bad this together and also shared on social media like US wherever you can find us tell all of your friends about US wherever you download the podcast give us a five story eight hundred eighty eight dollars on their trampolines just head over to play dot com E. N. Dash a you forward slash trampolines it's pretty damn easy as if it's I dunno new gave that feels like a mic drop moment I don't think you want this I don't think I won this but I am curious to see what the listeners pull that support the show there's always free delivery there's always a free ten bundle and discounts are everywhere check out the trampolines talk soon bye ever again because I know that you think that I'm a psychiatric Douche I'm triggered I want to take my kids to a horror show and then complain about the mental illness tie don't know how to spell trampolines it's T. R. A. M. P. O. L. I N. E. S. it's really really simple again save up to one thousand one hundred and eighty eight dollars and support the central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit psych central dot com non crazies official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy I killed them we need more and well it's just something that we like to do and it's really cool because we have a great sponsor visually is awesome and you can save up to one thousand one easy to work with gave go to gain power dot com to work the Jackie go to Jackie Zimmerman dot co not crazy travels while Afghan reading about mental. Fuck I said about again can I be done one good one I swear we're back debating haunted silence we're back debating hunted we're back debating haunted asylum but your tone was like fucking gave well that's what I was thinking now the sirens are going by again when you said that I was like what the fuck and I say back to that like I have nothing yes you're a terrible parent now explain mental illness to your kid in the parking lot what the fuck we just can't win they're coming for you gay because you're such a do sh that's offensive and I think this needs to be removed you can never say things like this the

Cedar Point Jack Zimmerman Howard five ten fifteen twenty twenty eight hundred eighty eight dol eighty eight dollars seven days
Chronic Illness and Depression

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

26:49 min | 10 months ago

Chronic Illness and Depression

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Welcome to not crazy. I am here with my co host at Jackie who has has physical health as well as mental health and lives with major depressive disorder. I never get to my intro. Because you always say weird shit like has physical health you do have physical health. Doesn't everybody have physical. How you would be surprised at the number of people that are unaware that you can have both physical health and mental health but it feels like physical? Health is not a thing you have like. It's not it's like a an umbrella term like mental health. Yeah what her isn't. Isn't it amazing that people think that he has mental health is a perfectly reasonable statement but people have physical. Health is stupid nonsense. Well they're both stupid and nonsense. They're forgetting the adjective. He has great mental health right. He has poor mental health. You have to add in the thing. We are going to learn more about Jackie Jackie today. Many people don't know that I met Jackie because she was an advocate for a completely different patient space. I was an advocate in the mental illness. Mental Health Space and Jackie was an advocate in the multiple sclerosis and inflammatory bowel disease space and we met at various conferences that were designed to help all patients come. I'm together and years and years and years later. Jackie and iron co hosting a mental health. PODCAST I didn't really consider you as co host in the beginning because in my mind and you did not have mental health issues. It was very cool of you because you explain to me that you're like look gave it. It's all connected and I have lived with depression. I have major depressive disorder. I just don't share it as much because the physical illnesses are are so i WanNa say demanding. Their front of stage right like mental illness for me is sort of backstage age specifically in advocacy. So I have a list of questions that I want to ask you because we really shouldn't separate this out. I understand why we have separated them out. You know again. I'm a bipolar advocate. I don't talk about the aging process even though turning forty has you know I'm going to have to get a colonoscopy eventually one whole colonoscopy But I think is important to understand that that's not going to be my advocacy focused because I have to stick to mental health. But there's so entwined is specially for Jackie so first off. She's thirty four years old today. I know it's rude to say a woman's age but let's age this. You were diagnosed with your first. Ibd I B. D. an MS symptoms at at what age it was twenty one whereas diagnosed with Ms. Let's pretend for a moment that you don't have major depressive disorder. You are perfectly mentally healthy. Not In every single way do you think is what a mess you up with. This have caused a mental health crisis to be twenty one years old and diagnosed with something severe as this my best. Guess for somebody who is not me. 'cause I can only speak specifically on my experience. Is that in terms of messed them up. I think everybody has a moment of contemplating their future. And what does this mean and a lot of fear and trauma involved in all of that. I think that happens to anybody anytime. They receive any kind kind of massive diagnosis. That is life altering. I think you start to question everything. And if you're not on top of it and you're not good at coping you don't have good skills and a great support network. It's very easy to see how that turns into some version of depression and or anxiety twenty one years old is when ms reared its ugly head. Put you in the hospital and terrified. Did you and your family. Let's talk about Jackie at sixteen. Did you have depression at sixteen. No I was not diagnosed with depression. Sixteen but did you have it. I think I probably we had a very mild just kind of a sad kid tone going on right. I wouldn't say that I was depressed in high school. I'm not a terribly peppy person now but I was not probably as happy as I think. Maybe a lot of my peers were or at least appeared to be twenty years old again before the diagnosis. You're just a perfectly normal twenty year old. You're hanging around in college. You're you're chilling in Michigan. You got the kid rock song. Depression suicidality any of that. In Jackie's life at twenty I had started therapy by then which was something I chose to do on my own so I think maybe I knew there was more to life that maybe I wasn't feeling that's the best way? I guess they can explain it. I don't know if I would have called it depression then. Nobody I knew was talking about depression. Nobody's talking about it not in my family not my friends no one so I just knew like there were things things I wanted to talk about. I guess I think the same sort of tone of maybe marginally depressed but not clearly depressed not suicidal at all just sort of trucking along in college doing things at twenty. I had just gotten home from studying abroad so my life was slightly the more depressed. 'cause I was really missing studying abroad. But it would just your average probably twenty year old. Then it hits your twenty one years old. You get this massive diagnosis. The scary thing walks through that when I was diagnosed with Ms. I didn't know anybody there was no one in my family. I didn't have any friends. All that I knew was what I saw on TV. which was that? This is like a super scary thing and that a lot of old people had it because the news and media is very terrible at actually telling facts about about most things so I was scared for sure. I didn't know what it meant the first question. I asked my doctor after my diagnosis. Like the first question was am. I GonNa die 'cause because I just had no idea literally no idea what it meant at that time I m s didn't necessarily take over my life I was in a flare and most of the time most of the time in MS flares are temporary. They last anywhere from weeks to maybe a couple of months and I would go. And have avian fusions daily for five days but then I would go home and I also had home nurse on the other days that would come And do the IV infusion at home so it wasn't actually admitted at any time in the early years for ms but it's pretty serious care. Yes it's daily. It's intense it's long. IV infusions how old were you when inflammatory bowel disease came a Knockin twenty-four. So here you are twenty four years old you get used to the the multiple sclerosis an IB wants to party. Walkers through that rewinding inflammatory bowel disease is an umbrella term and it includes a couple of different types of diseases. The two majors rangers are Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis. I have all sort of colitis that diagnosis shook me in a way that I did not see coming. Not only. We do not see the diagnosis coming. But when you're twenty one and you get an MS diagnosis. You think this is the worst thing that could ever happen to me even though my ms was not that bad and it wasn't wasn't taking away from my daily life it still is like this is the worst thing. Then you get what I lovingly refer to as a bud disease your girl. We'll see can't talk about butts. You can't talk about the physical pain because it's located in your digestive track which we don't talk about and you can't go see a doctor doctor because it's Hella embarrassing so you're living with this pain in this discomfort and at the time. Forgive me but I was shitting massive amounts of blood which is not right right. But you're who do you talk about them so I finally got through the press. Finally after I get the diagnosis and it is this huge weight of well now. This is clearly the worst thing that could ever happen to me. It could not get any worse than this and I think that was probably right when depression as maybe. I know it now really started to kind of rear in because I was trying to project my life. What is my life look like with? Ms and and really severe UC five years from now ten years from now and just none of it looked good all looked terrible. Our listeners really identify with mental illness onus and mental health issues and they understand this idea of being all alone in the world and not having anybody to talk to you. Because who understands this and you know people just tell you to cheer up and do Yoga and and take a walk and buck up and pick yourself up from your bootstraps. I think they can really relate to the part of your story where you're like. I'm a twenty four year old woman. I can't talk about my but you're you're not even allowed to laugh at lake. sophomoric humor as a woman. We we all know that you do. A fart. Jokes aren't part of the female culture. Like they are in male culture jour-. I imagine this was very lonely. Very isolating and I haven't even discussed yet the part where you're probably terrified that you have an illness that may or may not kill you. Yes exactly as as a woman woman. You can't talk about this stuff and so much so after. I got the diagnosis. I told no one not my mom and dad and my sister not my friends. I told no one about this latest diagnosis because I was mortified. Could you imagine people talking about my but like Whoa. No way literally cannot share this with anybody so so isolated in that way where I didn't share my grief about a second chronic illness diagnosis with anybody and then isolated in that. I didn't know anybody so I didn't talk to friends. I didn't seek out other patients to share experiences with at that time. And then you add on top of that a lot of illnesses. I think are isolating but when you have an illness that keeps you literally in the bathroom for hours. Every day you're isolating in a somewhat unique way that a lot of other people will can't relate to like maybe when you're severely depressed you isolate in your bedroom when you have an inflammatory bowel disease. You're not choosing to be in the bathroom. You have to to be there because you'll shit yourself all day long every day if you're not and most people don't invite other people into the bathroom while they're using it versus depression. Maybe your mom or your sibling. Or whoever's in the living room you just may not be like interacting with them. Maybe somebody'll come and give you a hug with depression or at least ask how you are but probably nobody is going to knock on the door and if they do. You're not going to be like yeah. I could really use a hug right now. You WanNA come on in. It is a whole new level of isolation I I mean when it was really bad I slept in there. I ate in there when it was really really bad. I only left to maybe get food or something and comeback back where I just put my pillow and my blanket. I slept on the floor of my bathroom. I don't think that we really need to spend a lot of time explaining how a mental health issue can crop up from them. Everything that you've just described my specific question though is. Do you think that you would have depression. If this physical illness didn't hit you. I think that I would have been prone to depression. I think I would have been somebody. Maybe who overlaps depression and sadness and grief right where where. Maybe there's a a trigger in my life that I'm feeling more grief than maybe I would be or feeling more sadness and I would dip into depression but not nearly as deep as I have. Because of these experiences additionally scientifically if you look at where they're serotonin receptors are in your body. Ninety to ninety five live in the nineties. percentile is in your digestive tract so when your digestive tract is broken you're losing nutrients you're losing absorption option. You're losing all these things. On top of that your serotonin receptors are broken. Also so I think a lot of people with inflammatory bowel disease do experience depression partially just because of the nature of the location of the disease. Feeling physically bad is going to make you feel mentally bad specifically. I want to talk about what you said is that you would have been prone to depression. I think this is the point that a lot of people don't understand some people go to war and they see the horrors of war and they come back and they're just fine. Other people go to war they see the horrors of war and they come back and they have. PTSD that is a well. Understood thing that some people even though they've experienced you're into the exact same thing will end up with post traumatic stress disorder and other people will not. There's a third group of people. Those are the people that would have ended up with post traumatic stress disorder because they never went to war. We're not even talking about them. It is possible because nobody knows that your body failing you caused mental symptoms and I got multiple things to deal with. It then went on right. You didn't get a diagnosis and spent a lot of time on the toilet now. You're fine now other stuff started happening. I don't WANNA a fall down a rabbit hole on the treatment. IBD or MS etc.. I WanNa talk about like a very specific point because this is one of my favorite things that you ever did. You wrote an article about about how to have sex with a colostomy bag. I just thought that that was extraordinarily brave. Because you're young woman who is talking about sex that makes it brave. You're a young woman who is admitting that you have a colostomy bag and you're a young woman who is admitting that somebody with colostomy bag wants to have sex all things that people have trouble wrapping their heads around. Can you talk about why. It's so important to talk about having sex with a colostomy bag I do. I also just need to like drop in a little bit of educational moment that I didn't have a colostomy had an estimate and the reason I bring that up is because there are different types of optimize so part of the reason why I started talking about my life with IBD. I was blogging into the void. Right it was more Catharsis and people read it and I was like Oh my God. Why do you guys like talking about my? But so much but it was the the no one else is talking about this and at the time truly ten plus years ago. People really weren't talking about this. This was an isolating disease physically physically emotionally but also in terms of knowledge. People were not talking about it. I was because I was like who gives a shit. This is relevant. I live in to me I was talking to myself basically. I was writing what I needed to be reading. That didn't exist at the time. So in a way your patient advocacy started off as a way to to collect your thoughts and reassure yourself. It was a selfish effort. To begin with yes it was. It was one hundred percent for me and when other people bore benefiting from it that's encouraging obviously you want to keep doing it and it's bonus it is for sure and not to like to my own horn but I always say that I embarrassed myself on the Internet in it for the greater good and the reason I bring that up is because I also later wrote an article so I don't have an Austin me anymore. The surgeries called a takedown. I now have an internal pouch you can google. It's called the J. Pouch which I lovingly call A. J. Bag which is incorrect but whatever a lot of people with J. Pouch have issues with continents because we don't have large intestines anymore and we don't have rectum so the muscles and organs that were developed to hold your poop inside don't exist anymore and your small intestine has to kind of learn how how to do this. So continents can be issue. I was newly dating somebody at the time and I was sleeping at his home and shit his bed and I wrote an article about it. Because is that what do that's how I cope and it got shared on a website and there were a lot of people saw this article like a lot and the overwhelming being response to. It was think you for talking about this. And that's one of those moments where you share this like the deepest darkest most embarrassing arcing most shameful moment of your life not not in my it was it was up their top three at least for sure. It's like looking at in the face and as Brown calls. Is it the shame storm and just saying like I'm not GonNa let this one get me you know it's taking it head on because that one could have turned into who like a super dark isolating depression where I stopped talking to. That guy. ghosted him because it's too embarrassing to face him didn't tell anybody in my whole life because we too embarrassing got the press for ruining a relationship for shitting somebody else's bed for isolating for my friends like the storm that follows an incident like that and I'm getting better better in my life my age and my advocacy just saying I'm not GonNa let that happen anymore. I'm just GONNA tackle it. I think we can all agree that it's not great to shit somebody else's bed right figuratively or literally. But it's something that happened. It's something that happened to you and by talking about it openly you realize that it happen to other people and those people realize that it happened to other people and all the sudden. You don't feel so alone. We'll be right back after these words interested in and learning about psychology and mental health experts in the field. Give listen to this link. Central Point cost hosted by gay powered visit Psych Central Dot com slash. Show Komo subscribe to the Psych Central. podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and unaffordable online counseling. All counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better health dot com forward slash psych central and experience during seven days of free therapy to see online. Counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych. Central we're back discussing Jackie's physical health problems and how how they relate to her mental health. I have been extraordinarily lucky. I don't really have any physical health problems. I don't the only physical health problem that I ever had was also related to my mental illness. I I used to weigh five hundred and fifty pounds and I had gastric bypass to lose the weight. That's the extent of my physical health issues. So at least I can walk around and say hey. My Body didn't fail me just my brain. It's just utterly fascinating to me that you have of mental and physical health issues. How does that feel? How do you feel about that in terms of your brain? It's sort of the ultimate betrayal right when you look at a chronic illness. It's very easy to look at it. Like your body has betrayed. You is attacking itself but at least you got your head on straight right and then when that happens because I'm a firm believer in the mind body connection. I'm glad that there are science coming out to support that. This is a real thing. Now there are therapists and doctors. That are working together so now I support all of that but when your body fails you and then your brain follow suit and starts tanking to it feels like the ultimate betrayal trail of I am not in control of any of this. That was probably the lowest when my body was in really bad shape I had failed surgery. Sorry I had gained a bunch of weight because of the steroids. I was on which partially caused the surgery failure. Then when I woke up from the surgery they told me ahead to lose a bunch of way in order to try right the surgery again. I had been working for six months to get to the point of this surgery. It was like the culmination of all of the shit literally and figuratively and in at that moment it was like all the fight that you had left just deflated and everything was like we are done at my whole body. My brain tapped out just done. That was a really really hard moment to come back from one of the things that people in the mental health space constantly. Talk about is stigma the stigma against people with mental illness. It comes up so much watch and I used to believe as did many of my peers that the reason there was so much stigma against people with mental illness is because they hate us because we were crazy. The reason that nobody cared about us was because we were mentally ill. We were nuts. We were crazy. We were wack jobs and therefore they didn't have to. They didn't care if we lived or died. Then then I met you and you told me that you know. People aren't exactly enamoured with people who have a shit bag strapped to them and people don't want to talk about people's Butts and people. Don't I wanNA talk about shitting and on one hand you were like crass about it but on the other hand I was like say more. Say More about that and that was a really big moment for me and also a really sad one. It was a big moment for me because I realized that everybody who has sick feels stigmatized against and discriminated against understand feels ignored and abandoned and left out and I'm not playing the suffering Olympics. And saying that you know but mentally ill people get worse because we go to prison. I'm not trying to to say that I'm just saying that. I really honestly thought that people that had physical ailments took limos to their hospital appointments. I didn't think that they felt alone. I didn't think that they felt isolated. I thought that you got all of the casseroles. And all of the prayer circles and all of the hugs and all of the understanding and people like me got none of its and I was really happy to find out that my circle just got bigger that there was more people that understood what I was going through just in a different way and then I was really really sad because I was like. Wow Yeah there's nothing I can catch where people are going to care about me. Well I will wind up you on that of the terrible feelings that we try not to this show share with other people but will share with the Internet instead so having a chronic illness other than when it is like doing terribly flaring very high is relatively invisible invisible as some would say. There were a lot of times when I was doing really really poorly that I kind of just wished that people could see it. I kind of envied people like in wheelchairs at times which feels shameful as fuck to say but it was like at least nobody questions you nobody goes like but is that really. What's happening right now? What you say that you know it's wrong but that invalidation of what you're feeling and thinking there have definitely been times? They have wished. I wish I could just show this to someone but let's talk about all the issues. Let's not talk about all the issues that people with physical disabilities that you can see. Go through all the time right. That is a little bit of suffering Olympics and I'm not here to say that one is stigmatized more than the other or it all sucks but there is this moment and when I started working with advocates and other condition Russian areas that I realize that we all have our own shit to carry and some of us do it in a bag on her abdomen and some of us do it other ways but we all have stigma. Ah We all wish we had more funding right. We all have all of the things. And there's a little bit of solidarity just knowing that your community is not the only one one of the biggest things that I learned when I brought in my horizon and I want to touch on this for a moment for all of our listeners network with other patients. I'm not saying. Don't go to a support group for people with mental health both issues because absolutely that's a great place to be but there's also in many cities other support groups designed around chronic illnesses and people in the mental health based believe that they're not for them. I don't think that's true. Because when I started hanging around other patients patients in other areas I realized how similar we all were and and I also realized that many people with physical health issues are ignoring their mental health. There's straight up ignoring it. They're thinking oh no no no no. It's just my body that's failing me but hey at least I'm not crazy. which on one hand can be a form of stigma? But let's think about what they're internalizing there. They don't WanNa be sick in one more way and they're not getting help for the grief the isolation the loneliness the depression the trauma because they don't believe that it applies to them. That's not good good. I think that we all have a lot to learn from each other and for people listening. If you know people in your life who have serious physical illnesses open up a dialogue with them. Figure out what you have in common and look I'm not saying make somebody else's suffering your inspiration but understand that we have much more in common than and we don't piggybacking on that a little bit too. You mentioned grief in one of the things that I found to be really important with having to chronic illnesses and then also essentially actually developing really severe depression and anxiety along the way is okay to grieve the life that you thought you'd have. It's okay to be really really sad about stuff that you thought you would do or who thought you would be and then to admit that you're not that person and you're probably never going to be that person and that's one of those things that I think also branches off into mental illnesses. Well it's okay to be really sad about the life you don't get to have and you have to deal with it. And that's one of those things that I think. All of us can relate to write once. You have this massive life altering thing whether it be a diagnosis or an event or something. You really need to take the time to have those was feelings about a life that you don't have Jackie aside from the questionable decision to co host. A podcast with a dude with bipolar disorder. How's life now? I really can't complain about life right now. I have a really good life before we wrap up. Do you have any last thoughts. The last thing that I just want to touch on is if you have a physical illness in your your life if you're somebody listening and you have a chronic illness or something physically that's going wrong and you feel your mental health. Slipping just remember that. There's no shame in that. They are related related in one goes poorly. The other one follows pretty easily afterwards. And it's okay to treat them both at the same time. It's also okay to just admit you can only focus focus on one. I still can't figure out what idiot decided that physical health and mental health. Were two separate things. I can't wait for the day that we just call it health. Jackie thanks for opening up into all of our listeners. Thank you so much for being here. Remember after the credit there is always an outtake. We hope that you check it out. It's usually funny and it's often US embarrassing ourselves and please wherever you download this podcast. itunes Google play stitcher Pandora open up their little rating systems. Get as many stars as humanly possible and right why you like the show. It makes Jackie and I feel better and it helps other. People know that they can choose us. Can always shares on social media can always email us to friends and you can also email show center dot com and tell us what you want to hear about. We will see everybody next Monday. CNN you've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy to work with Gabe go to power dot com to work. The Jackie goes to Jackie's Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels. Well Have Given Jackie Recording Gordon episode live at your next event email show at psych central dot com for details. I love saying Shit bag on the show you welcome. That's my gift to you. It is it is.

Jackie Jackie depression MS depressive disorder bowel disease IBD Jack Zimmerman Jackie Recording Gordon Austin Michigan CNN google bipolar disorder Ms. I Ms. Let Olympics Official Komo Howard
Is Loneliness a Mental Health Issue?

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

27:06 min | 8 months ago

Is Loneliness a Mental Health Issue?

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Hello everyone and welcome to this week's not crazy. I'd like to introduce my co host who lives with depression. Jackie Zimmerman and I'm going to introduce my co-host Gabe lives with bipolar disorder. Jackie people find it hard to believe that I am a lonely guy and I think the reason the people find it hard to believe is because I'm surrounded by so many people I'm married. I have a great co host and friend in you whenever I'm seeing out in public lick. I'm on stage or I'm giving speeches. They see my social media presence which is really really filled up and they think there's a guy that has a lot of people in his life air. Go not lonely well. I think that we live in a really interesting time right now. At a time when we are more connected than ever with social media texting video chats all of these things we would think that the opportunity for loneliness would be much smaller now right we. We can connect anywhere at anytime to anybody. But that's not the a case right the stats about loneliness are kind of overwhelming right. Now I have a saying that I can feel alone in a crowded room and I'm surprised at how often I say. Say That and people were like me too because again we tend to think of loneliness only as not being surrounded by other people. I think this is a good place to a throw in. Maybe a little bit of a definition or an interpretation of loneliness because when we were talking about this episode and talking about like what is loneliness. What does it feel like like? It's really hard to define loneliness without saying lonely. It's really really hard to define exactly what it is. So this definition. I think it's great which says it's the discrepancy Z.. Between One's desired level of connection and once actual level of connection which I think is a really brilliant way to frame. What loneliness is that? That is a really brilliant way but Jackie what's your definition of loneliness. Okay so full disclosure. I wrote this down and down. I've told her because shooter okay. I wrote it down because when I tried to talk about loneliness I run out of words. I can't describe it. It's very we sort of like. It's an emptiness in my brain that I just can't like get out so I wrote it down and I think loneliness is like ultimate despair. It's having so many thoughts and feelings. That are desperate to get out of you but feeling like you have to keep choking them down over and over loneliness looking everywhere anywhere for a helping hand but keeping keeping your eyes closed while you spin around feeling like nobody wants to help you you can feel the presence of their hands but can never feel their actual touch. I listened to everything that you said and and I can acknowledge its beauty and I can hear the pain in your voice and it has like a symbolism to it that maybe as a writer or a content creator. I just really really respect. But I'm not connecting to you like to you Jackie. My definition of loneliness is that I feel that people people don't connect to me. I can be in a room with so many people but I don't feel like any of them like me. I don't feel like any of them. mm-hmm understand me. I don't feel like any of them. Want to lake or understand me. I think people are just kind of bouncing around my orbit getting what they want for me and then moving on I insure my definition of loneliness is a complete disconnect from the people around me and my definition one of extreme loneliness is a disconnect from the people around me who I should in fact not feel disconnected from like family or friends or my wife. Do you feel like if you reached out to those people though and you were like. Hey I really need to talk to you. They would listen. Oh Yeah. That's what sucks about loneliness rate. It's not about not talking to people. I think that there is this misconception that loneliness social isolation that's nonsense. If loneliness was social isolation elation every single person could defeat loneliness simply by leaving their house. Go to Burger. King go to McDonalds go to starbucks go to a restaurant. There's going to be people everywhere everywhere. Some of the loneliest people that I have ever talked to are surrounded by dozens of people every day via their jobs jobs. They have families they have children. We have to get away from this idea that loneliness is social isolation social isolation can certainly lead the loneliness but but social isolation just means that you are socially isolated there are many people like. I don't know my grandfather. That could not lay eyes on another human for a week and he would not be one iota. What a lonely? In fact he's annoyed when other people show up he's the opposite of Gape. But the reason I asked you that is because in my definition of loneliness. I'm surrounded founded by people who are actively trying to help right. I have my sister reaching out. I've got Adam I've got friends who are like. Hey how's it going and I want to tell them what's happening but I feel like I can't. It's like I desperately WanNa share these awful feelings that I have but I just feel like I can't and to me that's what what loneliness is. Is this wanting to share yourself with somebody and not being able to. I can agree with that but let me take it a step farther. Do you feel empowered to tell them. mm-hmm no like you said they're reaching out and they want to help and you feel guilty for not letting them but clearly. You don't want their help. Isn't that the ultimate in disconnect. I WANNA be so connected to somebody that when they say oh my God gave. You're so anxious and you're so depressed and you're clearly crying what do you need. I can look up and say nothing. Please go away and they say I understand. I'll come back in a couple of hours like that's the level that I want what I have now is. What can I do to help you? Nothing are you sure. Let me do all of these things that you clearly don't want because I have no understanding of what you're going through so I'm just going to do a whole bunch of Internet memes. Some things to make you better. They're trying to help. And now I feel guilty that I'm not accepting their help but clearly that's proof they don't understand me because I don't want their help and and they don't understand that see. I don't feel guilty. Everything that is wrong with my brain is rooted in worth so I feel like if they ask me how they can help. And I'm like Oh well you could help me with all these things than become a burden on them and then they're gonna be annoyed with me and then they're never going to ask if I want help again because they just wish that I would stop calling them. So it's it's a lot of self isolation for sure because I'm purposely pushing them away I'm purposely saying I don't want your help but I don't want their help because I'm afraid that by accepting their help I'm going to eventually push them away. You know it makes a whole lot of sense. One of the things that you're describing there is a self fulfilling prophecy. Yes you're afraid to go down the road that might help you because it could push them away but by refusing to go down that road. You're just pushing them away. Sooner the pushing away in the scenario that you described is actually on you. Because you're just like I don't want to risk it so I'm GonNa put you away now rather than potentially I could push you away later by accepting your help and my describing this correctly. Oh one hundred percent and this is not a rational thought process. How many times have we talked about like anxiety or depression? None of it makes sense. It's not something that you would go. Oh Yeah I totally understand that. It just is completely irrational but it brings me to a question that I think is really important based on this conversation in our differing experiences. Do you think loneliness is a choice This is a really tough question for me to answer. Because here's why yes. I absolutely think loneliness is a choice choice now. I can already hear the counter argument to that. Nobody understands me. I'm alone. People aren't giving me what I want. I'm isolated. I don't have the ability to make friends I'm on on and on and on and on all my God that's a really good point so no no. Loneliness is not a choice now. I can already hear the counter argument to that. Well you're invited to parties and you don't go you get on dating APPs to look for love and you're just you only will date supermodels. Who are thirty years younger than you and have? PhD's you're just not willing willing to accept anything you literally shove people away like in the example that you gave Jackie and then say on. I'm so lonely. In that case case it is a choice. So what do I do with that. You give me your opinion on whether or not loneliness is a choice. I think the loneliness can be a choice I do. But here's the thing that makes me not popular at parties. I think that depression can be a choice as well and now everybody freaks out the like. Oh my God. Depression is a medical disease. You don't choose. Who would choose this? Well right I completely agree with that but there are things that you can do to make it better and you have a choice. People are like well. It's a really really hard choice. I I never said. It was an easy choice. I said that there are things that we can do to improve our circumstances. Loneliness works that way too. There are the things that we can do to improve our circumstances but man I do have a really really hard time looking at somebody like myself and being like Oh you choose to be this way. That just sounds really fucked up to me like a really like mean way but at the same time I wanna tell Gabe two point. Oh listen you you need to. You need to get out of the house you need to accept the invite you need to be open to the ideas you need to have difficult conversations with your loved ones and tell them in no uncertain terms what you need and what you want. And if they don't understand you have to work harder to make them understand. You have a choice to do that so now now I don't know what to do. It's empathy versus empowerment. I am in the camp that you always have a choice and everything and a lot of people told me like no. I didn't have a choice to be chronically ill or I didn't have a choice choice to get a flat tire. Whatever I don't know but I think you always have a choice? Sometimes your choices are to really shitty options right but you still get to pick one of them in most scenarios in my version of loneliness. It almost always choice. It's not a conscious choice. Not Actually saying like yeah this is better for sure. Let's sit at at home in not shower and hide under blankets for ten days. I don't really choose that but subconsciously I am choosing it because I am not doing those things that I know will make it better. I'm not accepting invites. Not returning phone calls. I'm not getting the mail you know. I'm just like existing quietly in a really awful way and I think that if you experience loneliness the way that I do you being our listeners. Not You gave said that your different but if you listener experience loneliness the way that I do. I feel like you take part of the onus of this type of loneliness you have to choose how to deal with it and some some days might be being lonely and feeling awful and other days they might be going out of your comfort zone and returning a phone. Call one of the things that I was surprised to learn in preparation for the show. Oh is that loneliness is not this. All encompassing thing for everybody like it is for me. When I first heard about loneliness becoming like a chronic health issue it was just like? Wow are there really that many Gabe Howard's out there and the answer is no no. There's not and it's certainly possible that you can be very satisfied and fulfilled in your home life but feel very lonely at work or you can feel very satisfied with your friendships in your family but feel very lonely when it comes to romantic relationships. We'll be right back after these messages interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field. Give listen to the psych central podcast hosted By Gay poet visit Psych Central Dot com slash. Show also subscribe to the Psych Central Podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better health dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are license accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential financial schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days. A free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych psych central and we're back and researchers have laid out seven different types of loneliness to kind of break it down into things and Jackie with your support and permission permission. I would love to read them if you do. It quickly ain't nobody got time for you to take a long time to read seven different types of loneliness. Seven is my favorite number. I'm always thinking of the number seven so I feel like this is just really. This is really sense. Meant to be you're meant to read the types of loveliness yes here the seven in no particular order and we're going to discuss a couple of them when we're done. Jackie you pick. We have new situation loneliness. I'm different loneliness. No sweetheart loneliness no animal the animal loneliness no time for me. Loneliness untrustworthy friends loneliness and quiet presence loneliness so oh I wanna see a real asshole thing which is some of these feel like vary valid to me like new situation loneliness rate when you move somewhere and you know nobody that seems valid to me. No animal loneliness seems like bullshit because go get an animal or go volunteer somewhere. Go stand on a street corner and be around animals animals so maybe I'm not the most empathetic person to be choosing. This goes back to the conversation that we were having earlier about choices right because in your mind no animal animal. Loneliness is bullshit because you can just go get an animal. But this assumes many things this assumes that you live in a place where you're allowed to own an animal this assumes that you you have the money to properly afford take care feed and get good vet care for an animal and while these are things that Jackie Zimmerman engaged Howard may be able to afford. They're not things things that say. A first year college freshman living in the dorms and valuing her education three animals that are currently living in her parents house. But had nee I also said if you can't afford them are allergic don't have space for them. You can volunteer at A. Shell got enough. Is that what you want. Out of your animal. Listen for me. I am not an animal person but I love my dog but I gotTa tell you if somebody told me that my dog could cuddle with me anymore like I just had to give that up like I'd be allowed to pet my dog. It'd be allowed to throw the rope with my dog. Play tug of war feed my dog. Listen gave no cuddling. I would go through no animal loneliness even though my dog will be right there there. Because it turns out that I'm mad cutler when it comes to snatch her see but they're still a choice in there if you are broke college student. Who can't afford it? Your choices says either. Wait until you can't afford it or go get one and then not be able to take care of your dog right. The choices are not great but there are there I just. I don't even know what to say to that. You're you're SORTA get an animal and not take care of it. Well that is not a good choice. No it's not in this scenario that I use why picked it. I just came up with it. The eighteen year old. What is valuing their education over the animals and their fulfilled in every other area of their life? We're GONNA pretend that they didn't even go through new situation. Loneliness is being a freshman in a dorm like that was no problem for them. They don't feel different. They feel connected. They have time for themselves. They love their friends. Everything is going fine bites lights. They grew up with animals and now they don't have animals except during spring break and Christmas and they feel lonely about it. There's nothing wrong with that so now you have to decide I'd like hey. Is this reasonable. I do have to say that acknowledging that not having an animal makes you lonely and then acknowledging that the reason that you don't have an animal right now how is because you're putting your college career your future your ability to earn money by a house and then have thirty animals including a horse and Zebra in ten years when established. I think that those are ways to ease the loneliness right to understand why. You're making the decision but I think that feeling feeling lonely that you don't have an animal and this is coming from somebody that is just not an animal person. I can kind of dig it and I think acknowledging it helps even though like you said it may be the right decision so I have four animals. I experienced animal loneliness the moment I'm not in my house. I get it but I feel like this kind of loneliness this these I guess I'm going to call them surface level loneliness which I might get some shit for that but I feel it. Almost the loneliness severity is a choice in my opinion. Like I know we're harping on this animal thing but is they know animal loneliness really affecting your life so powerfully that you are so sad and you're isolating. You're doing all these things that are feel awful because you're so sad about not having an animal if that's the case go find an animal pets pets it walk dogs do what get paid to walk. Dogs do whatever. But if you're just like man I really miss my dog at home the maybe you just gotTa wait till you get home and see your dog. I think that everything that you said is fantastic and I can't disagree with it and I think that that's really healthy to understand cause and effect understand prioritizing things in your life and it doesn't have to to be on animals like you said. Let's not harp on the animals. You can make this about you know your new situation your job or feeling different or not. Trusting fringe can go out and make new friends. You can just just whatever I think. There is a path out of loneliness. I think that the reason people feel so lonely. An isolated is because they don't understand that there's a path out of it and when they talk to people about being lonely they get dismissed so quickly. Oh you don't have a dog who cares. That person does end of conversation. We just do this a lot where we decide that it's not important and the number one way that we do. This in America is every single thirty year old up completely. Lee Dismisses the loneliness that a teenager feels about not having a significant other because once we hit thirty we realize that your sixteen year year old significant other is nonsense. It's just nonsense. You're going to be in love so much in your life. You'RE GONNA love everybody. You're going to date a million people. It's going to be fine and you're gonNA realize how insignificant this relationship is the keyword there is you're gonNA realize it it's a future thing for them so when every thirty forty fifty sixty year old looks at the sixteen seventeen eighteen year old and says oh you just broke up with your boyfriend. Yeah who cares. That's a meaningless relationship. I don't care that exacerbates the loneliness. It exacerbates the disconnected feeling because it really really really really matters to them. Even though in the words of the Great Jackie its surface its surface loneliness who cares. I know it's dismissive and I think that you're right. The worst thing you can do to somebody who's feeling any form of loneliness is to just dismiss their feelings. It'd be like yeah but like get over yourself and move on which is totally what I did about the animals calls but I still maintain D- regardless of the type of loneliness you have. There are choices in there. And what the person who is dismissing you is trying to say is choose. Choose something different and I'm not defending that person at all. I'm not because dismissive. People suck myself included. But they're trying to say there's an alternative Option here to what you're feeling and maybe they're doing it the wrong way. Maybe they don't really see what the alternative option is. But they don't see what you see our point out the way that adults treat children's romance on purpose because we're all guilty of it even people who feel dismissed an isolated and incredibly lonely unle. They're all GonNa turn around and do that to their sixteen year old nephew there eighteen year old niece their twelve year old child. They're just GonNa completely just blow the whole thing off as if it's not important and then when somebody does it to them they're like Oh my God. How could this happen so I just want to point out that we're all guilty of it so that way when somebody nobody does it to you? You can realize that they're not being malicious. The reason that they're blowing off the thing that's important to you is probably a lack of understanding. not this desire to be mean to you or to dislike you or to hate you and that helps me get over it faster when I realized that the reason my wife doesn't understand me simply simply because she doesn't understand me that makes me feel a whole lot better than when I think that the reason that she doesn't understand me is because she hates me and as somebody with an anxiety disorder or I can jump to the worst conclusion in a single bounce and I need to get over that and to your point. Jackie there are choices in there and I think that choices these are very very empowering is long as we understand that sometimes just because we make the choice doesn't mean we're going to get our way I mean I made the choice to be a millionaire but I'm I'm not one so my choice is largely irrelevant in that however I do have the ability to work hard to save money to make good financial investments and and while I probably will never be a millionaire. I have a better shot at it than if I ran up all of my credit cards and refuse to work and I think that's kind of what you're getting at right. It's understanding what you can control what you can't control and understanding why people relate to you in the way that you do and how you can not internalize allies other people's misunderstandings exactly yes and part of what you dabbled in. There is one of these things that I don't want to spend a ton of time on but it's the I'm different loneliness and I think that is the thing that any listener of this show has experienced whether it be because of mental illness or things that maybe we have made up in our head of things that we think make us different. I know I do that all the time. The I'm different. Loneliness is very real because maybe you are very different. There's a good example here of maybe you are really really tied to your faith. And it's really important to you and you're in a new place where nobody shares. There's the same faith is you. That's something that could be really detrimental to your social life and even your types of conversations you have with people and the I'm different loneliness whatever. You're feeling different about is hard to kick. It's hard to be like I feel different but everything's cool anyway but I still feel like there's a choice in there where you can actively pursue people who are similar than you actively pursue more education about. What makes you different and why it makes you different? You can fill a gap if there's not a thing for people who are different like you. Maybe you need to created my take away from all of this. Jackie is that I do think that people have choices but I I wanna be clear that just because somebody has choices to improve. Their situations doesn't mean that the rest of the world can be a jerk to them so what they have choices. Maybe you could be empathetic and understanding manning and help them realize those choices and make it you know so often. These people were just like get better. Do Better be better. You could go for a walk. That's not helpful. I also WANNA WANNA say to the people like Gabe who have the choices. Maybe don't wait around for people to be understanding and empathetic as much as I hate to say it. I am my own biggest fan. I and my own biggest cheerleader. And getting off my own ass and doing things is something that I had to learn early on. I believe that you can do it. Jackie believes that you can and do it. And there's a whole community of people who have done it and I just want you to know that because we can move forward in meaningful ways and and that means you you can move forward in meaningful ways. Wow Okay that was beautiful. I feel like you're mocking me but I'll allow Oy I am mocking you but like I actually believe that that was beautiful. Because the root of that is you are your best advocate as somebody who has been sick for a really long time you are your best advocate. Get any time. You're you're only advocate. So if you're not advocating to make your life better or to change your situation or to change your circumstances you can't really expect other people to do it for you Jackie as always. It's fun hanging out with you. I WANNA leave our listeners with this quote that I read doing research for this episode. It said if you're ever feeling lonely go outside and look at the moon because chances are somebody somewhere is doing it as well. It's not the kind of gushy stuff I normally like but that one spoke to me but listen this is very important. Don't stare at the Sun because nobody else is doing that. Thanks everybody for listening to this week's episode of not crazy. Did you know that Jackie and I will live podcast wherever you are email US show show at psych central dot com for details. And Hey we could show up in your town. Wherever you downloaded this podcast please? Rate Review in subscribe shares on Social Media And use your words. Tell people why they should listen to the show and finally stay tuned after the credits for our outtake of the week. They're always awesome although sometimes they're more awesome than not. Thanks Lisa make good choices. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit it. PSYCH CENTRAL DOT COM non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy to work with gave go to gain power dot com correct. The Jackie goes to Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels WELP Gabin. Jackie recorded an episode. Live at your next event. Email show psych central dot com for details more often than not thanks. Lisa make good choices the only l. anything else now. That's I want. You just make good choices. Yeah don't be lonely that's a command you don't have to be lonely At not crazy only dot com sane people. Just don't get it you you suck. You're not a jingle maker. I just I stole that Jingle from a very profitable website. Yeah well with law Cuda ways. Yeah tell we do this. This says hey we do what it sounds like to me. Every time I'm interest for you shouldn't be Lisa will cut it at Lisa G. Do not make dead GRANDPA jokes and outtake like no dead people bowl and no sex jokes. I feel like we shouldn't have to discuss this. But given some of the outtakes you've used I can just you know just throwing it out there. I feel like we have to warn her. Now I just thou takes you just be you going remember. We said we can't use this as outtakes remember Lisa. We can't use that is out takes. That's fair she's we've had to Redo a lot of them Yeah okay this is my least.

Jackie Gabe Howard Jackie Zimmerman Depression social isolation Jack Zimmerman Lisa G. Adam Gape bipolar disorder Jackie Zimmerman Dot Burger McDonalds King Jingle PhD
Sex Addiction, Hypersexuality, and Mental Illness

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

27:09 min | 9 months ago

Sex Addiction, Hypersexuality, and Mental Illness

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Hello and welcome to this week's not crazy. I would like to introduce my co host Gabe who you may not know also twilights as a Santa Claus and I would like to introduce my co-host Jackie Zimmerman who I just realized had multiple sclerosis she always said that she had Ms. And I just assumed that it stood for Microsoft by the way she described it as horrible. Oh that was terrible bowl. It's funny it's really not that funny but you know what we'll go with it and both of I forgot to say you are bipolar. I have depression. So we'll just throw that one out there as well. Yeah and and to be fair. I am bipolar and you are depression. I am I am I am. I'm a little rain. Cloud with eyeballs wandered around raining on people. I love it. This tweak Gabe. We're talking about sex. Let's talk about sex baby. Let that was my first concert for the record. I was eight salt and pepper. That is not salt and pepper this. I'm thinking if somebody else. Wow why should that. We're leaving really the net in hard. Actually that just became the outtake I was thinking of. I WANNA sex you up by color me bad. Oh my God you went let from a group of two strong powerful black women to an awful group that nobody remembers him. You're pushing it good plush anyway. Okay this week we are talking about sex and specifically hyper sexuality. And there's this notion that sex and hyper sexuality are the same the thing and they are. I mean they have things in common but it's a little bit like describing like a light spring rain and a hurricane as the same thing. There's there's a world of difference and I don't think people really understand that. I think that I don't understand that. I'll be candid that this is not a thing that I have experienced experienced and honestly all that I know. Is these celebrities in the news to get caught cheating on their wives and they claim hyper sexuality and is that true. Like what point do you claim like. I'm a terrible person who's cheating on my wife and or I have this actual addiction to sex. So there's a a couple of things that I WANNA point out there i. This is where it gets really tough right to say to somebody. I don't believe you when they say that they have an addiction or a mental illness. Like that's dangerous rate. It's dangerous. I don't know that I wanna live in a world. Where when somebody says? I'm having a mental health crisis racist or I'm addicted and I need help. We WanNa say oh bullshit you just got caught and now you're trying to weasel out of it okay. So let's talk about at this. Let's help me understand this but also maybe helps people out there who are feeling maybe that they are living living in the hyper sexuality round but don't know it or don't know what to do about it. How do you know you have like an addiction to sex? And you're not just somebody who really really enjoys sex so full disclosure. I've had hyper sexuality. I had hyper sexuality for a long period of time. I'm also somebody somebody with a high sex drive. Who enjoys having a lot of sex and let me tell you the biggest differences between those two things wanting to have a lot? A lot of sex is very enjoyable. Sex Is Nice we should just say it like it is sex is nice. I like having sex. People like having sex hyper sexuality ability is not nice. It's horrific. It's an addiction. It's a compulsion you have to do it. There is no choice choice. It has to be done. It has to be done enjoying. It is not even a factor in hyper sexuality. It's it's all about completing the act the end. That is a sincere youth because it sounds like it takes this really fun thing and makes it really unfunny and I would imagine that can have some pretty negative effects on your life you can have very negative effects is on everything around you rate. Let's go back to your celebrity example one of the things that we noticed like in the celebrities who get caught and then they have the addiction. They've had hyper sexuality as one. They're always men. We've never heard about females having hyper sexuality or addiction in the public space and and that's not realistic women do in fact suffer from hyper sexuality that's like being number one rate thing number two after they get caught right you look back at their pattern and it's always like high end scotch right. It's a little bit difficult to be addicted to alcohol when somebody offers you a beer. You're and you're like no no no no I'll wait I'm going to wait for the high end Scotch and then when you get caught drinking the high end scotch like Oh my God. I'm an addict will be. You went days at a time without drinking taking while pursuing high end Scotch and then when you found high end Scotch. Yeah you locked yourself in the bar for the weekend but then you were cool for or another couple of weeks like this is a pattern that like doesn't jive in addiction circles but we're kind of accepting it as the examples also of hyper sexuality and these are some things that we have to be careful of right because we tend to think of hyper sexuality as having a lot out of lake really good sex. This is where I'm gonNA burst your bubble. And Freak everybody out hyper. Sexuality often looks like chronic masturbation. Well I'm learning so much about you. Gabe it's a thing. It's uncomfortable right but Jackie be honest and I'm not trying to put you on the spot until this moment. Did you honestly believe that. I didn't masturbate. Is that something that you think about the world when you look out at the world. Are you so naive that you're like no. Oh nobody masturbate. S- we only make love to our partners and dedicated Reno. Nobody believes this. Nobody believes this yet. For whatever reason everybody thinks this is true. Even though they know that it's not true and that sort of ware hyper sexuality causes a lot of problems it butts up against the end what we actually know and what we've convinced ourselves as true what we actually know is that people like sex people have a lot of Saxon that people desire sex. What we want to I believe is that sex is only done in a committed and loving relationship and only for the purposes of procreation and putting another beautiful child into the world? It's nonsense nonsense. It's all nonsense but it persists and it makes people who suffer from hyper sexuality feel awful so as someone who has not experienced this I find this to be fascinating and I have so many questions about it and what it means in your life and your relationship in all of these things so can I just like rapid fire questions at you. Hit Me hit me. We have a podcast. You know that right okay. So someone who is experiencing hyper sexuality. Are we talking doc in like daily hourly what would quench the hyper sexuality. Thirst nothing nothing. It's going to be a little bit different for everybody so so for me. Twenty seven times in one day didn't do it. And those twenty seven times were comprised of partners sex workers and Masturbation Asia and at the end of the day. I did sleep like I was able to fall asleep but when I woke up the next day some you know twelve thirteen fourteen hours later. I don't quite remember how long I slept upped. Yeah I was right back at it but is this like other addictions whether it be to like drugs or a food even where it is all you you think about your planning the day. You're having a fixture planning your next one like you were saying. It is all encompassing consuming. All of your thoughts. Yes yes it is the reason that you are alive and you are willing to do anything to meet the need while I was in the act of satisfying. Just fine hyper sexuality. I was thinking about how I was going to do it again. While I was having sex I was trying to figure out who I was going to have sex with next. I would masturbate rebate on the way to having sex with somebody it was uncontrollable. I've quit jobs. I've spent ridiculous amounts of money. My wife left me because I had a symptom of an illness. And that's something that's worthy of talking about two like isn't it. You know in sickness and in health like could you imagine if I had cancer when she left me because of a cancer symptom but back to the celebrities. People think that it's bullshit and there's no test I can't prove it can't be like no. No no I cheated on you because I had hyper sexuality. Look here's the blood work. It sounds like an excuse and I want to be very clear. I don't blame my first wife for leaving me at all idle left to be too. It's that that misunderstood but I wanNA focus the audience on it is a symptom. It's an addiction. It's a compulsion. It's this horrible thing that's happening to you. You and as soon as it becomes public the response from everybody around you is to call you a bad person and leave which means they're probably not showing up with any so help well. I would argue that the general response to any addiction honestly. Yeah I mean not many people handle those situations very well so in this a scenario with your first wife for with anybody anybody in your life really. How do you explain this to people? It's very difficult to explain something that you don't fully understand in in the throes of hyper sexuality. I didn't know I completely agreed with my wife. I was a bad person who cheated on her the end. Is this something that you talk to a therapist about or is this self diagnosed. I think that all originally self diagnosed right. There's a reason that you go to the doctor. You think something is wrong and then you ask the doctor to fix it when we're talking about like physical things. It's a little easier. I'm having a headache. I'm too tired. I have this rash. I want to go away in. Mental Health. WERE TRAINED BY SOCIETY TO DEAL WITH IT ourselves. I'm sad man up. I'm anxious. Don't be a Wuss. I'm manic calm down. Why you act in this way when I was having all of this sex? This is my favorite line on this whole podcast. I'm telling you right now. I wasn't just having a lot of sex. No no no no no. I was sowing my wild oats. BARF and that's what I I believed. I believed that eventually I would get my shit together and stop also not for nothing young Banik Gabe who felt like he was king of the world having a lot of sex especially with a lot of different women. Yeah it made me feel powerful and mania made me feel powerful. It's weird weird even me. Who knows the horrors of hyper sexuality still thinks man? I wish I could get a fraction of that back middle-age blows rose and this is where it's uncomfortable right because some of it seems like a talent that I want to be a man in Brag up but most of it it is is a horror show. It's exactly like addiction where you feel so awful until you feed that addiction and then you momentarily feel better until you feel awful again. That's what hyper sexuality is like your bipolar. We've talked about being panic and these things kind of going hand in hand is this. A common symptom is a symptom of being bipolar hyper. Sexuality is a symptom of bipolar disorder. It's also something. That's not uncommon in mania mental. Illness is all about something normal. Taken to an extreme rate sadness is normal depression and feeling like you WanNa die. That's an extreme. And it's an offshoot of sadness but it also comes with garbled thoughts rate like defining. Depression is just sadness is not really fair. Fair because sadness. Normal Mania is an offshoot of happiness like we want people to feel joy and elation and happiness but obviously asleep thinking that you are invincible. And that you're a god and that you can't be hurt and King of the world all of that is is way too far and and now now think of sex wanting to have a lot of sex that could just be libido and everybody's got a different libido you know some people want to have sex a couple of times a day. Some people want to have sex a couple of times a month. There's there's no reason to put a label on her to declare whose writer who is wrong. You know when you're horny. Have Sex have consensual sex or pleasure yourself that is all really really normal normal where it becomes dangerous is when you're doing it for the wrong reasons. I wasn't having sex to experience the pleasures of sex. I was having sex to feed the beast. I was having sex because if I didn't I couldn't concentrate or focus on anything else. It was the only thing that I cared. What about? I would have ran a bus load of nuns off the road to get to that fix. And that's not okay. That is is not okay and it's it's incredibly dangerous. It's incredibly dangerous. We'll be right back after these messages. This episode is sponsored heard by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling. All counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule. Secure your video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days. A free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you better. Health Dot com forward slash psych central. And we're back discussing hyper sexuality. So is this like when you talk about times where you've been manic and you're sort of just running full speed ahead and then when it's over you realize you have to deal with the things that you did right like you have to maybe apologize or return a bunch of things you bought or whatever happens you have to kind of rectify those situations. I would imagine in this situation. You probably have people in your life you need to talk to but also I'm assuming you're not practicing safe safe sex when this is happening. So what about the aftermath of those kinds of things. So there's a few good discussion points. The thing that you said is I imagine you're not practicing safe sex x when you're doing these things for me personally I was. I was absolutely unequivocally practicing safe. Sex 'cause I was terrified of getting somebody pregnant and I was terrified terrified of catching a venereal disease. Like apparently these don't get pregnant and don't get an S. T. D.. Were lessons that were really pushed. Hard hard into me and the example that I use just because you experienced psychosis doesn't mean that you lose all of the talents that you have people with bipolar disorder. Schizophrenia people in psychosis coasts people in major depression episodes. If you're a scientist and you have major depression you still have all of that science knowledge so even even though I was hyper sexual the risks that I took Gabe. Howard personally were minimized right but equating it to lake? Let's say I'm somebody who is on the streets in doing heroin or something at some point. The risk of what happens if you share needle goes out the window and you're like doesn't matter. I just need to do this so I didn't know if at some point the risk all goes out the window based on the compulsion or if you can rationalize through it that's a really difficult question to answer and I wanna be like really really fair here as a man. I have a lot of control in in that. I can use a condom rate where you know. Sometimes women don't have as much control because it it's tougher for women. I don't want to speak on behalf of all women but it's you can take birth control pills but that doesn't do anything for STD's so a lot of the women that I've spoken into that have had hyper sexuality. They've been so desperate that they'll show up somewhere. The Dude won't have a condom and they'll think well hell with it. I'm on the pill but that's only half of the equation rights that you know women who want to have a lot of sex need to carry condoms because dude suck they just absolutely suck but then we push up against the whole sexual debate in our country. Well a woman who carries around condoms is a slot. That's just wholly unfair and unreasonable. But these are the things that adds all of these layers to hyper sexuality for me I always made sure that I had protection and this helped me a lot. There's also again. The masturbation aspect fifty percent of this is not with a partner. It's just not and then. Finally we can't ignore the fact that I had privilege I had money. I did hire sex workers but they were high end sex workers and I hate to say that I do. I'm not trying to discriminate against anybody but I hired sex. Workers who owned cars had agencies drove their cars to my house. It's it's that's just different and it's not fair but it's different okay. So going back in time you are. In in this spell of hyper sexuality will say two questions. How does it end? And how do you prevent it from happening again or do you want to to prevent it from happening again. Those are two really really good questions. I'm going to answer the second one I yes you absolutely want to prevent it from happening again because when when you're having regular sex sex with an engaged partner sex you want to have. It's so good sexist good. I can't be more clear that that sex is a wonderful thing. I'm trying desperately not to say that sex is a beautiful act between each other because it is. I don't want people to think that I'm talking about lights off missionary sex. No you can have any kind of sex you want with a consenting adult road and what you and your partner like especially when you've discussed it and you're sexually compatible like that's amazing and it's one of the best parts of the world. This is not the kind of sex that people with hyper sexuality get just like in binge eating disorder binge eating disorder for most people is not going to a five five star French restaurant with all of the servers. Who Wear the TUXEDOS? No it's going to the buffet. The low quality buffet. All you can eat for five dollars and shoveling as much food as humanly possible into your mouth until you vomit. That's what binge eating disorder looks like so anybody that said well isn't binge eating disorder. Great you get you to have all the food that you want. Yeah we would all acknowledge that that person's a moron so anybody that says well isn't hyper sexuality great you get to have all of the sex that you want point. Yeah Yeah it's the five dollar buffet. It's not it's not quality it's all good and it doesn't make you feel good and eventually probably throw up. Too Much of anything thing is bad literally across the board I would argue too. Much of anything is bad. This applies to almost anything and the first question is how does it end like so many things things with mental illness and especially with bipolar disorder. It ends because you cycle out of it like everything with mental illness and bipolar disorder on that spectrum. You just end up in a different place and you look back and you're just like Oh my God. How did this happen? Who Do I have to call? What ex girlfriend did I call up? How much money did I spend and and when I say how much money did I spend? There's all kinds of ways to spend money surrounding sex going to bars and buying drinks. Buying nine people. Drugs is a real popular way to get laid. I it's the underbelly of bipolar. I guess but I had money and resources. So I kept a group of of Basically sync offense around me who were willing to Mooch off of me and occasionally have sex with me that all makes you feel really awful. It's just not good. It's not what you want. It's not the type of reflection on your weekend that you want to have. It's just not and in some cases I I lost jobs over this. I've lost friendships. Because you know if my buddy's girlfriend can sense I'm probably not going to talk her out of it and these are unreal realities and problems and I think that anybody who's dated a lot has people in their lives that they really just need to cut off because they're toxic and calling that person person because you know that there are quote unquote shore thing. That's a way to bring that toxicity back into your life and to remove all of the boundaries that you've created created and finally. It just feels awful. It's awful it takes a good thing and destroys it and it has real ramifications. Wins for the rest of your life. My first wife left because of hyper sexuality and I don't begrudge her for it at all but I lost an entire marriage due to this symptom him and other symptoms but the symptom was a big one Gabe. You mentioned anyone who can consent as somebody who is a candidate. When you are hyper sexual? Is there some aspect of people who are not consenting who are sort of victims of people who are using hyper sexuality as as the causation nation of what happened. This is another one of those areas where it's really really tough rate because if you look at legal defenses sometimes the perpetrator. We'll say it's not my fault. I was hyper sexual. And that's what led to the inappropriate sexual behavior or the sexual assault. One this is. This is another one of those areas. Where data is hard to find? There doesn't seem to be a lot of Sexual assault and when I say sexual assault. I'm talking rape that occurs occurs because of hyper sexuality you don't lose your morals. Because you're hyper sexual. I can't say unequivocally that hyper sexuality has never led to a sexual assault. I can't and I'm not trying to say that but what I can say is that Gabe Howard unequivocally never her had issues with this with hyper sexuality in all of the years that I had it because again even though I was hyper sexual I still understood consent. I looked for strong yeses. I was very very careful that I didn't abuse anybody because that is a value of mine and that is important to to me. Gabe can you give any tips or advice for somebody who may be experiencing hyper sexuality right now like what can they do to make this better make this go away or just just get through it or lock themselves in the room and board up the windows live. How do you make it through this safely but also without blowing up your whole life go to a Dr? Go to the emergency room. If you have to go to your general practitioner tell somebody immediately you kept using the example of other addictions. Yeah that's how it works right if you are addicted to drugs and alcohol if you are addicted to food if you are addicted to sex you have to get help this whole mind-over-matter Dover matter idea is not gonna work. I know that there are sex addicts anonymous groups and I've heard good things about them. Therapy is something that can help for me. Getting diagnosed and treated for bipolar disorder helped tremendously. Now that I have solid solid supports and treatment for bipolar disorder. Hyper sexuality is completely gone. It is a thing of the complete past. It is just a symptom that I watch out for and now I can enjoy sex lake a regular person. That's like the pay rate but yet you'd you'd need to tell somebody we have to get over this idea that every medical thing that happens to us we can solve on our own stop it stop it it ask for help period. Ask for help now before you do real damage to your life. Who F- If this episode has spoken to you if you are experiencing this know that one you're not alone in this obviously Gabe can relate to this can give you some good advice but take that first step talked to a doctor or seek treatment? Get this out of your system in a healthy way and continue to work through this to get to a point point in your life where maybe this is no longer something you have to worry about and the bonuses you get to enjoy sex again. I cannot be more clear how much which this has changed. My life getting treated for this symptom and I cannot be more clear. That wallet was going on. I didn't know it was going on so if you suspect it get get it checked out. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Here's what I'd like you to do. Subscribe to the podcast like the podcast. Share the podcast rate the podcast review the PODCAST had cast. Do all the things that tell us that you like what we're doing and don't forget to stick around. To the end of this whole Shindig because there is an outtake. I'm just going to say this this week spraying and you've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit is it psych central Dot Com. Non Crazy is official. Website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with gave go to gain power dot com correct. The Jackie goes to Jack. Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels while Gabin. Jackie recording episode live at your next event email show and ED psych central Dot Com for details. We'll be right back after these messages are Jackie setting up the back half it. It's weird. I don't want to talk about Jackie. No you're you're on mute. I can see you. Can't nope nope. nope still on mute. And now you've disconnected completely.

Gabe Howard bipolar disorder depression Jackie Zimmerman partner binge eating disorder Jack Zimmerman Illness Microsoft Mental Health assault Banik Gabe Zimmerman Dot Masturbation Asia cancer heroin headache Gabin
What is Mindfulness?

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

26:59 min | 5 months ago

What is Mindfulness?

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Hey everyone welcome to the NOC crazy. Podcast I'd like to introduce my co-host Jackie and that was my co host. Gabe Jerky we are going to discuss. Mindfulness and not surprisingly I am not a big fan of mindfulness. Probably because I'm a Gen xer have commonsense. Oh shots fired okay. Well I guess that's why this is. A good topic is because we don't agree probably at all I think. Mindfulness is an amazing tool. It's wonderful and everybody should be using it. Just like therapy. It's important to point out that just because gave Howard doesn't like mindfulness doesn't mean that gave Howard things that mindfulness is bad. Should go away or that. People shouldn't use it. I also don't understand yoga do yoga. It's it's scary to me. I would get wrapped up like a pretzel but I'm not on a campaign to eliminate yoga. I'm not on a campaign to end. Mindfulness it's just everywhere and it seems to be offered up as the solution to every problem until I came out and then we sort of forgot about mindfulness for a little bit but sincerely it is everywhere. It is everywhere and it's not the solution to everything but it is a solution to a lot of things not solution. It will aid a lot of things. Let's be clear it's not going to solve world hunger but it can make things better right. It's helpful it's helpful and it canceling shower when you're sick. It can get you to where you want to be. Maybe a little bit faster. And let's rewind firm and Gabe actually before we jump into that. Let's talk about. What is mindfulness like from a technical definition? Not It's new age bunk. That is pointless. It's no this is from Berkeley Dot. Edu So at a trust Berkeley Berkeley. This is a really long definitions. I'm just going to be a part of it. Which says mindfulness means maintaining a moment. By moment awareness of her thoughts feelings bodily sensations and surrounding environment three gentle nurturing Lens. I know you're GONNA say that's bullshit I am. I do struggle with this. Because it's not who shouldn't be aware of their body right. I don't think it's bullshit to be aware of your body. I don't think it's bullshit to stop and smell the roses. I don't think it's bullshit to count the ten. I just think that all of this stuff existed and that people have been doing it for years and we didn't put a name on it and give it like a culture surrounding it. I think. Maybe that's what I have. The problem with. Mindfulness used to be called stop and smell the roses. Mindfulness used to be called slowdown. Now all the sudden it's like a new fangled thing that people think they just discovered wrong first of all. Mindfulness is actually rooted in like Buddhist Meditation. Right so it's not a new fangled thing. It's a thing that specifically in America we suck at so yes stop and smell. The roses is the same thing. Take a moment. Pause is the same thing but we didn't do it. Nobody did it and definitely didn't do it. In a way that was long and meaningful. Yes if you stop literally Moment and smell the roses. Technically that's mindfulness. But you get any of the benefits from a point. Five second rose smell. No you don't but don't you now. I'm going to defend mindfulness. Because I kind of disagree like when you said. Do you get any benefit from a point. Five second row smell. Are you kidding? We never stop. I hope we don't do things one at a time. Now we invented multi and that's my generation. You how is making fun of Your Gen? Xers invented one thing at a time. No multitasking is where it's at so we don't stop and do anything for point. Five side. Are you kidding? Like point five seconds. That's an improvement. So yeah in that way. I agree with you. I just don't think it's mindfulness stopping to smell the fucking roses but it is mindfulness. It doesn't hurt to put a title on it right. Okay prime example. Have you ever gone to a friend and talked about a problem game? Yes and isn't that similar to what you do in therapy? I mean except that therapy works on a scientific basis. So does mindfulness does it? It does what you like some facts. I would love some facts the way that it is described and I know that I'm older. I know that I'm crotchety and I know that I'm set in my ways but I would love to read any article about mindfulness. That doesn't make it sound like bunk. I am open to the idea. Jackie that it's not but it's always so hippie dippy and flowery and it doesn't seem to be based on anything and I would like to point out that talking to your friends and therapy while maybe on the same spectrum are a world of difference. I don't want everybody to avoid therapy because of Bob at the bar. No but you can fit talking. Things out is helpful. It has a name. It's called therapy when you're doing with your friend it's not therapy but like it fits under the idea of talking out your problems virtual similarly in this situation but here's a fact braided. I'm your mind blown. Mindfulness changes our brains. This is still from Berkeley. Researchers found that it increases density of gray matter in brain regions linked to learning memory emotion regulation and empathy. Give me an example of practicing mindfulness. What are we dealing with? You know we use the example of stopping to smell the roses and and I know that that that is a mindfulness basis. But I can't believe that stopping to smell the roses for point five seconds or even five minutes a day. I can't believe that that is changing gray matter and humans. It doesn't sound reasonable to me. Well as you might suspect I strongly disagree with you again on this because you can't tell me that overtime stopping to relax your brain release stress all the positive things that come out of something like mindfulness. Can't change the chemistry and your brain. You're telling me that if you're on level ten stress forever that your brain chemistry doesn't change. I will immediately on that one because obviously when I was in a state of perpetual depression for example that changed my brain when I was in a state of perpetual mania that changed my brain so sometimes I do feel like I'm stuck in a semantics argument like I feel like I'm saying. Hey look we need to be aware of our surroundings. We need to not live in this stress. We need to understand our limitations. We need to count to ten. We need to focus on our breathing. And I think that's a good idea. People have heard me say this. And then you're side fires back. Well that's mindfulness and I immediately say. How did we get here because one of the things that you said is that? Mindfulness came from Buddhism which which is literally thousands of years old. But I never ever ever heard the phrase mindfulness until like ten years ago so because it didn't have a name means it doesn't exist and it's not real that I did or the stupidity doesn't make any sense. I mean here's what I think. Mindfulness is not one thing. It's not a list of five steps. It's not clearly defined. It's a relatively abstract concept and I think that a lot of people in the world have a hard time wrapping their brain around. The idea of mindfulness could really be anything. It's what works for you. And without clear guidelines and really stringent rules. Were all like. Oh this is scary. I don't really understand what this is and it must not work. It must be completely rooted in all of the wicked Ian and the Weird Hippie dippy shed. Because I don't have a clear guide on how to make it work for me. I want people to know that I have a vendetta against mindfulness like I can kind of hear myself like dude. Why do you care and as I said at the top of the show? I'm not trying to get anybody to stop it. It's just as a mental health advocate and somebody who lives with bipolar disorder. I faced so much misinformation pill shimmer. They tell me constantly Gabe. You don't need antidepressants. You need to go for a walk in the woods. And I'm like no stop it and people tell me. Oh you have bipolar disorder. You can control depression mania by running on a treadmill and there's always this little bit of Science Diet and exercise does help with bipolar disorder. Going for a walk in the woods sounds delightful on an overcast. Day when it's about seventy degrees and not raining but to cure bipolar disorder. That scares me and people are looking for reasons to ignore the medical establishment. Have you seen the Anti Vaccine Movement? We now have measles for the first time in several generations. It just seems like mindfulness is just the latest New Age cure to get us away from doing the hard work that it takes to be well when you're managing a major mental health issue or living with mental illness. So Jackie I'm going to throw the ball back to you and say. Do you think that mindfulness is a replacement for therapy? Because I know you're pro therapy. No it's not. I don't think. Mindfulness will cure anything. It's not going to carry bipolar. I don't think. Mindfulness is the only treatment option. I don't think that mindfulness should replace anything else. You're doing. I think it's additional tool into use in conjunction with what you're already doing like you can't tell me that something that lower stress increases appreciation and relationships and helps with your attention skills or decision. Making is something. That's not going to help you in your life or handle living with bipolar handle living with depression all of those things are just going to make your toolkit bigger. I get behind the idea that this is a tool in your tool kit. You have a fully functional tool kit and somebody says dude you need Mallett. I don't like that I have a hammer and a mallet. I know you're thinking it's the same thing but a mallet is good so I take the mallet and I put it in with all of my other tools. I can get behind that you read the same Internet that I- rejecting you know that there are people who believe that. Mindfulness is a cure. You know that there are people that have just elevated mindfulness. So far off that they're like dude. Get Rid of your cure box. You Are Mallet men. Now what do you say to those people? And why do they believe it? I don't agree with that. I can't say yeah. That is going to be the solution. I believe in science. I also believe in modern medicine. I think that science modern medicine and a little bit of like the wool Giddy can all live together. That's why we have holistic health centers and things now because there is value in a lot of these things. Can they treat modern disease. I personally don't think so. I don't think it's a replacement for medication or modern medicine. I don't but I think that if you are somebody who doesn't trust medicine who has issues with medication. For whatever reason you do or somebody who just wants to believe in holistic approach. You could put all your eggs in the mindfulness mascot and be like this is the thing. I don't think it is the thing I think it's something that not only helps with anxiety depression and a lot of other just feelings based things I will say like when I feel sad or field really anxious. I think that mindfulness helps me ground myself. Mindfulness is very similar to meditation. In that way. We have all kinds of studies on meditation. You're not telling me. Meditation is Bullshit. Meditation works were teaching it in schools. Now it's all kinds of shit but mindfulness because it's a new term to you and to a lot of society right now doesn't mean it's a new concept. I feel the desperate need to say that even Berkeley says that. Mindfulness is not. GonNa fix or cure anything by itself. It's always an add on tool every study is like yeah. This helps it a lot of different areas. But yeah don't don't give up your medicine. Fire your therapist. Fire your psychiatrist. It's not going to cure bipolar disorder. However to your point while it doesn't cure anxiety it's really been shown to be very effective at lowering anxiety and stress. That did impress me because I am science driven and maybe that's the problem that I have with it. Maybe people just took a good thing too far. It reminds me of when I was a kid. My my mom got me a bike right. The bike got me to and from school faster. That was fantastic. And then me and my dumb ass friends built ramps and then some of US broker lakes but how can too much? Mindfulness be a bad thing. I mean if you break your legs how can too much calming being the moment reconnect with yourself with your relationships? You know helping increase the density of gray matter. Actually one study says that it might be just as effective as antidepressants. How can you say too much of that is a bad thing? There's a million esoteric ways that I could go like for example. People always make the comment. How can too much money be a bad thing? Well did we all SEE SCROOGE? That was bad for him. He was going to have to carry a chain and rotten hell forever. But let's take it another step if you are a miser that holds onto all of your money and you value your money over your relationships then. Too much money becomes a bad thing. Let's apply it here. If you have decided to ignore your psychiatrist. Ignore your psychologist. Ignore your general practitioner. Stopped taking your medication because you read on a website that all you need to do is stare at a flower for a half an hour a day. That's a bad thing. I think maybe what you mean to say. Is that if it works for you and there are no ill effects then. It's a good thing but what I'm finding is the people that I talked to you that say. Oh I'm only using this. There are no ill-effects. I'm like well did you do it in conjunction with your doctor. I don't need to. Why are you afraid to have your doctor? Look at what you're doing. Are you afraid that they'll find a flaw in your methodology? Are you afraid that something might happen? That they'll point out. It does seem like sometimes people gravitate to things like mindfulness and they just ignore all of the outside data so that they can say that listen. Mindfulness is working. But in the meantime in order to actually do. Mindfulness twenty four seven. You're probably unemployed and that in and of itself is bad well first of all. Nobody can do. Mindfulness twenty four seven because of sleeping. No because basically impossible to stay hyper focused on one thing or your breathing or what. The air feels like or the birds chirping. It is impossible unless you are a Buddhist monk in a mountain somewhere you cannot do this twenty four seven and it's like everybody you're talking to is only doing this and that's not what I'm saying. That's not what this is saying if somebody said to you. I'm only going to take medication. That's it you would say. That's a bad idea. Oh Yeah it's a horrible terrible idea. One thing as your one and only your hard stop is always a bad idea. All of these things require a combination unique to you probably very different from somebody else dosage time. You're doing my implements. Are you going to therapy all of the things? It all works together at no point. Do I think anywhere that's credible would say only practice? Mindfulness and that will lead you to a path of no mental illness. One hundred percent. No we're going to step away and we'll be right back after these messages interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field given listen to the central podcast hosted by gay powered visit Psych Central Dot com slash show also subscribed to the psych central podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days. A free therapy to see if online. Counseling is right for you better. Health Dot com forward slash psych central. And we're back on unproven. Gabe wrong about mindfulness. I struggled with my weight for pretty much my entire life and I've been on a myriad of diets and eating plans and weight loss plans and the ones that work. The best for me is the one that has no forbidden foods. It's like look eat. What you like. And they're sort of motto was all things in moderation understanding that. Yeah you can have cake on your birthday. But she cake is too much. I know that I come out hard against mindfulness because when it first came out it just had all of this it just had all this flowery language and people were excited about it and they elevated it to a point where it didn't belong to your point a lot of that has limited down and there's probably a bigger discussion to be. Why are so many people looking outside of what they currently have like? People have been struggling with mental illness and mental health issues for so long that when something new shows up. They're desperate for it. Which really kind of shows you were not doing a good job with all of the stuff we have now because people who are healthy people like me therapy is working for me. Medication is working for me. Family supports are working for me so I sort of have the privilege to ignore this. I really do. Hey this sounds dumb. I don't WanNa do it while. That's congratulations you're living well you can. So it's impacting vulnerable group. I struggle with this a lot. Jackie I really do because the vulnerable group needs more but the vulnerable group there also easily taken advantage of and I don't know how to balance that I agree you that things position to a vulnerable group of people if positioned incorrectly can be harmful right and I also would agree with you. That wouldn't will say. Mindfulness came on the scene right. It started getting a lot of airtime. People were talking about yogis everywhere. We're like you must do this all that shit. I agree that it got elevated to a level similar to honestly the benefits of yoga the benefits of meditation all of these sort of holistic things that naysayers and skeptics. Go like. This is all bullshit. We're not doing this. And as somebody who is rooted in science loves modern medicine you know I am the skeptic I am this but there is a tiny part of me that believes the power of the. Woogie as I call it and the reason is because I've seen its benefits right when I am heavily worked up and I take a minute literally minute to meditate. I feel better afterwards. I know that it works. Scientific Research will back up. Why works the problem with things that fall under the category of the woody or a hippy? Dippy whatever you WANNA call it is that there is some buying required to see the benefit. You have to go into going. This is going to work or even this could work. But if you're trying to be mindful you're focusing on smelling the roses for a minute and the whole time early. This is fucking stupid. Why am I doing this? I don't WanNa do this. It's not gonNA work. You're not gonNA get the benefits of it. The whole point is to clear your mind if your mind is perpetually telling you this is really stupid. You're not going to see the benefit of it. So there are always going to be people who are not going to be able to just clear all their preconceived notions and just see it for what it is. I was one of them for a very very long time. You have to at least allow yourself to fathom the idea that it could be a useful thing for you Jackie. I really liked the explanation especially backed by the Berkeley study. That mindfulness is a tool. And we don't all use the same tools not everybody needs a mallet but everybody needs a toolbox and what you put in that toolbox different. It really reminds me of my friend. Dream my dream is an interior decorator and I thought interior decorators were like rich people. Bullshit maybe it's because I was raised blue-collar maybe it's because I'm poor. I don't know but she was like no. Interior design is beautiful and decoration is beautiful and it helps dream and it opens up. Pathways you know. Being in a beautiful environment will make you happy. And every time she spoke I was like bullshit. Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit. Then what get divorced here I am. I'm divorced I'm moving into a six hundred square foot apartment which I was moving out of house into a six hundred square foot apartment. I had almost no money. I had all kinds of junk shed and dreamed of the rescue. She's like listen. Here's what I'm GONNA do. I'M GONNA. I'M GONNA design your apartment for free. I'M GONNA decorate it all. I'M GONNA lay it out largely with all the stuff that you already own and I'm like whatever crazy lady I don't even care. I am too depressed to stop you. I I call this place my pod. It's probably one of the nicest places I've ever lived in my entire life. It was just so organized and beautiful and perfect and I just couldn't see what she was saying and what she was essentially saying. Is that pretty organized spaces that speaks to you. Make you feel better. I think that's where we are with mindfulness. I don't know that it helps me. But as you've pointed out counting to ten stopping to smell. The roses are mindfulness acts. But there's really no reason to be against it as long as you're using it for the right thing. Obviously if I quit my job to stay on my beautifully decorated home. That would be too far if I paid my friend. One hundred and fifty thousand dollars to design six hundred square foot apartment. Yeah maybe I'm abusing interior design. None of that happened. I used it correctly and proved me wrong and you have may be proved me wrong to but whatever so can I get dream number because they could really use some help in that design apartment houses. Pretty this is what I really think about mindfulness. Okay I think it is a really helpful tool if you believe it can be a helpful tool the other thing is it's hard. It actually takes work if you were somebody who is kind of skeptical on the fence and you sit down and you try to smell the roses we have said and the whole time you find yourself your mind wandering doing other stuff and you're like this is stupid. I can't do it. You have to stick with it. It is very similar to meditation. You have to re train your brain to refocus back on what you're doing and the best way to do it is to start really really small. One of the best suggestions I ever heard from. Mindfulness was while you're in the shower. Maybe you're in the shower five minutes a day. I don't know how long you take your showers. But while you're in there only think about the water hitting your skin which is kind of easy to do because it is perpetually hitting your skin over and over and over again but when you start to think about what you have to do that day go back to thinking about the water. Mindfulness is something that takes work. You have to work at it. Which means it's not a simple fix to everything else in your life much like all other treatment plans. It's not an easy thing won't fix it immediately. You have to work for it and a lot of people who are skeptical aren't willing to work for it so they won't see the benefits of it. Jackie I really like your tip about trying. Mindfulness in the shower. Especially the part where you can recall it throughout the day that you're like a mindfulness like master. Your master mindfulness Sir. What is your favorite mindfulness activity? That's really hard to say because honestly it changes with the seasons because I like to be outside in the summer and one of the simplest. Mindfulness things you can do is sit outside and let the sun hate you and just focus on what it feels like when the sun hits you like. Where's warming on your body? How does it make you feel literally just feeling it? And that's one of those things when you're like don't we all just count attend. Don't we all what do whatever no we don't? We don't make the time to focus on the thing. Whatever the thing is another thing to do. That was a great suggestion for my therapist. Who I love Was to sit in the grass one day in just feel the grass feel the wind. Listen to the sounds like just only do that. Most of the time we're sitting in the grass and I'm making a to do list or I'm thinking about how there's probably a bug crawling on me or if there's a car driving by like what if somebody's walking up behind me right now. You know you're not focusing on the think thing is to focus on what you feel what it sounds like the senses. The mindfulness is focusing on the senses. And most of us are really really bad at doing that. So gabe after all of that after bringing down how small can be or how. It's not going to change your life immediately. It's not going to be your only treatment option. Would you consider a mindfulness practice in the interest of honesty? No I'm not considering it at all. That said I'm not in a bad way right now right. I'm not currently experiencing depression anxiety. I gotTa tell you though. I am willing to put the mallet in my toolbox. I just don't have a need for mallet right now and I think that's maybe what a lot of people should be willing to do with the things that just don't sound like they're for them. Maybe they should just be willing to put it in their back pocket and consider it maybe later and at the beginning of the show at the beginning of the research for the show. I was positive that we're we're GONNA end in a very different place so it was really really mean to go science and and Berkeley involved like that was. That was my Achilles heel. Jackie it is always fun hanging out with you. Thanks for being my co host. I love proving you wrong. It's great to be your co host. She wins one argument. Ladies and Gentlemen Listen Up Listeners. Here's what we need all of you to do. Wherever you downloaded this podcast please subscribe please rate us. Please use your words and reviews and tell people what you like about the show if there's something that you don't like about the show hey we completely understand we're human email us at show. It's like central Dot Com. And tell us about it. Remember after the credits. There's always outtakes because hey nobody's perfect including Gabin. Jackie and we will see you next week and as always thank you for listening. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups and visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with gave go to gain power dot com to work. The Jackie goes to Jack. Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels while half Gabin. Jackie recording episode live at your next event email show and psych central dot com for details. Do a really good one ready. I'm focusing on the Mike. Mike Wash over noticing La Mike Guard up. This is really creeping me out. We have to stop what you're doing right now noticing there. Nope YOU'RE GONNA do it again. Added notice I have to do cut away. Is I'M GONNA get in trouble if I don't lease is going to be sorry. Lisa we're so fucking mad at us. I have one trek so you have to shut up so I can do. This does not always up. It's not my fault Gabes wrong about mindfulness which hit stop on my computer. It's not on my computer. You don't know I'm an idiot. Not An idiot. Sorry Liza name Sorry Lisa.

Jackie Gabe Jerky Berkeley bipolar disorder Berkeley Dot Jack Zimmerman Berkeley Berkeley Howard US Science Diet America Zimmerman Dot Lisa Xers Bob Official depression Ian
Inpatient Mental Hospital Stay (Part 1 of 2)

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

28:59 min | 11 months ago

Inpatient Mental Hospital Stay (Part 1 of 2)

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard hello and welcome to not crazy. I am here in the House of my co host. Gabe Howard who is sitting across the table for me staring at me. It's a little extra weird but he also lives here in this House with bipolar. I think that is the longest introduction that I have ever received and I am sitting here with my co host. Jackie who is sleeping in my house rent free food not contributed in any way and teaching my dog very bad habits and she lives with major depressive disorder. Welcome come everyone hello welcome to house. It's like you're here with us. It is really cool and it's the first time that we've been able to record in person little behind the scenes. A lot of this stuff is done on an Internet studio it. It's really good. We plan a lot of stuff via video chat and text messages and emails and late tonight. flurries of inspiration. But it's always good to be in person because the energy just flows and there's always diet coke regular coke if you're not Gabe diet coke regular coke diet coke but regular because if you're going to go to McDonald's which we do and you're going to you're going to get the regular side note McDonald's and Coke we are are open for sponsorships and we would appreciate hearing from your people so what appreciate that. Today we are talking about something that I feel like has a lot of mystery story and is not very clear kind of shrouded in silence which is what it is like to be admitted in patient in a psychiatric hospital dome and Gabe has done that. So I'm going to ask him a bunch of questions about that and I'm happy to answer these questions because what I didn't know upon admission would've would've just been really really helpful to know and in addition to my own psychiatric admission I've worked in psychiatric hospitals and I've interviewed people who were inpatient and I've interviewed reviewed staff and I've really just done a lot of work around this subject because it's the crisis point rate. A lot of people with serious mental illness have been inpatient. And they end up there in a variety of ways. And it's it's a terrifying subjects. It's a terrifying subject. I also think that there's a lot of I guess. Misconceptions nations or at least assumptions about it based on movies pop culture haunted asylums throwback to all of the things that we think we know l.. But I'm going to assume are probably incorrect. But I'm GONNA find out when I ask you all these questions. Pop Culture is a terrible place to get FACS ax. You need to put that on a shirt I. I don't know that anybody would wear it because you know how. Many people are lawyers because of law and order. How many people are doctors because of grey's anatomy? How how many people think they can get away with murder because the show how to get away with murder and snapped? I understand why pop culture. It's spoon feeding you information. And it makes you feel feel like you're seeing behind the curtain a little bit and pop. Culture is really great at playing with our emotions. They don't just show you what it's like to be in a psychiatric hospital middle. They pair it with a dark and stormy night and with sad music and they cut two clips of a family crying and in some ways. That's not far off being in a psychiatric. Yeah trich hospital feels like a dark and stormy nights anybody who goes to the hospital and has to stay overnight. Their family is probably scared. The whole soundtrack thing would be nice but we don't really have soundtracks in real life and there's not quick cuts in real life. There's a lot of hurry up and wait. There's a lot of sitting. There's a lot of wondering well we'll so let me ask you questions for you. Continue because I feel like you're going to answer some of the questions that I have in your little intro monologue which is great right but I would like to make it purposeful because I have good questions at least I think they're good questions. I want to be the judge of the good questions I I will tell you if how well you're doing so I am somebody who has not been in patient. I have considered it. There were times in my life where I was making the phone calls trying to find somewhere to go. I don't even know if that's really what you should be doing. But there were times that I was I was thinking this is probably what I need to be doing. I didn't do it for a myriad of reasons but in those moments all I'm thinking is the shots of movies that have run through my mind of is this a good idea is a bad idea. Is this the only idea so I have got a list of questions before you get into the questions. I'm going to answer from my personal lived experience and I think it's important to stay that just people living with bipolar disorder. Aren't the same. All hospitals hospitals aren't the same. I live in a big city. My admission was seventeen years ago and different hospitals are different some better some worse some the same. So I'm I'M GONNA speak very general and from personal opinion. Your mileage may vary just WANNA throw that right out there. The disclaimer. The first question that I have which is super relevant. How do you actually get admitted inpatient because I feel like this could happen a couple ways but in my brain my pop pop culture brain where I go is I'm having a crisis I go to the? Er because that's what they always say to do in the ER goes. Wow you're bananas you're losing it and they we're going to admit you right here in this hospital and then I have follow up questions but I feel like that's not right. Maybe it's right. I sincerely don't believe that the mental Oh health establishment is saying. You're bananas and I understand why people think that but you know just a little side note. What they're thinking is? This is a person who needs help so that was absolutely correct. People can go to emergency room. They are diagnosed with something or they're a danger to themselves or others and then they are admitted to a psychiatric hospital. That is how I ended up in a psychiatric ward. Is it a psychiatric hospital or award. Like every day is a psych ward. Well no not. Every hospital has a a psych ward and some hospital specialize just in psychiatry so there are psychiatric hospitals. They do nothing but mental illness mental health health and psychiatry and then there's regular hospitals that just like they would have an oncology ward or a new baby ward. They would also have a psychiatric award. The hospital that I was in was a psychiatric hospital that was attached to and part of a larger hospital system. So so I guess I was in both award and hospital but it does vary where you are and it's also important to point out that some rural areas. They don't have a award or a hospital meaning to get care. They can be driven. Twenty five fifty a hundred miles away to get some sort of services yikes WCHS actually was legitimately shocking to me. Not Shocking. That enroll eras. They don't have access to good care but just thinking about in a moment of crisis going. Well let's pack a snack because it's GonNa take US forty minutes to get wherever we're going but rewinding for a minute so you're having a moment of crisis you can't just call up a hospital that specializes in mental illness right. Hey I'm coming on in the way you can with an er right like don't you have to make an appointment. There's all this talk about. Not being enough beds right. There's never enough beds leads. So how do you when you're in a crisis. How do you get to where you need to be? This is where it's really shitty for people with mental illness especially in crisis you are often committed. Did to a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward. Meaning you did not decide. Oh my God. Something's wrong with me. Make an appointment and or go to the emergency room and then check yourself self. In a lot of times. The police are called the authorities get involved. It's scary most people end up in the psychiatric ward through some sort of crisis point. And when you get there you're just in right. It's not like do not pass. Go do not collect two hundred dollars. We're just the police show up you get out and you're like I'm here now. That's probably simplistic. The police. Show up they evaluate what is going on and they decide that you are a danger to yourself or others and they decide not to arrest you. It's very important to throw that in because it's certainly possible that the police show up and they arrest you. You're having psychosis you you think that you know people are chasing you and that there's monsters around every corner but all they're focusing on the fact that you're in a convenience store throwing canned goods and they're like well that's vandalism that's theft that's trespassing and they arrest you and take you to jail and you get no help so in a way the police showing up and seeing a crisis seen something go wrong. Recognize it as mental illness and taking taking you to the hospital where you are then committed against your will is actually things going very very well but I want to put a slight pause there and look at it from from the perspective of somebody with mental illness. You're in crisis you're scared you're not in your right. Mind the police show up and now you're locked behind locked doors and a scary place with crazy people. It sounds pretty terrifying. It's incredibly terrifying. So how did let's talk about you. How did you get in where you were as far back as I can remember? I always thought about suicide. I wanted to die every day of my life as far back as I can remember on on good days I thought well today is not going to be the day that I die and on bad days I thought yeah well. Maybe this is the day that I'll do it. I thought this was normal because hey no good. Mental Health Training purpose of the show right we want to have more conversations surrounding rounding mental illness and mental health. I didn't know that I had bipolar disorder. My family didn't know that I had bipolar disorder. Nobody recognized the signs and symptoms of mental illness. For reasons that that will fill up years and years of not crazy episodes gave. We already know that you're sick. But how did you get admitted. Someone finally recognized something was wrong and asked me if I was planning on killing myself. who was that someone? It was practically a stranger woman that I was casually dating at the time and I say casually dating because we try yeah to keep this a family show but she recognized that something was wrong and did something about it. And what did she do I she asked me if I was planning on killing myself itself and I said yes and I got excited because I thought this was a normal conversation. I thought that everybody thought about suicide. So the first thing that I thought in my head is oh my God. I've got to help her sure that this is going to be fantastic. After I'm dead I have like a will and some paperwork and insurance documents and I need my family to find. I was GONNA leave it on the kitchen table with a note that says. Hey this is what you need to do. Now that I'm dead but I can give it to her and she can give it to my mom and dad. This is going to be fantastic. I was thrilled. I hate the term heart just sank But like I just got that like can't breathe moment when you said I have a helper like that is such a not. It's not good thaw processing for obviously actually shows where you were in the moment of let somebody asking you if you're suicidal. Nearly yes someone to help. That's it's nearby. It shows that something gene is wrong with your brain or your thought process. You're per something is going very wrong in your life to think that somebody is asking you about killing yourself because they want to be involved in some sort of motivating or positive way is in that messed up not surprising. She had the same reaction. Is You she freaked out. She freaked out and honestly I looked at her like she was crazy. I thought why. Why is this woman freaking out? So what did she do after that. She said we need to go to the hospital. She said we need to go to the hospital right now and I said why do we need to go to the hospital. I'm not sick. And she said we need to go to the emergency room and I said the emergency room. Whoa the emergency room is where you go like when you break your leg right when you when you fall off the roof we hear roofing or you're playing with fireworks on the Fourth of July and you burn your hand? It's not someplace that you go because you're feeling the way you felt your entire life. Yeah Yeah I guess if you look at it. In in hindsight of I did not see any of my feelings as an issue. This is the way that I always felt therefore I did not see it as sickness. I understood sickness to be borates. You feel differently you know normally normally you're not throwing up now you're throwing up sickness normally. Your nose is not running now. It's running sickness. Not I felt this way my entire life. I still feel this way. You want me to go to a doctor for it. You'd pardon the Pun. I thought she was nuts. I really did think wow I have come across the crazy person just great now. I have two problems. I need to plan my suicide right and I need to take care of this Wackadoo that that's what was going through my mind. I can't be any more blunt than that will be right back after these messages interested. Distant learning about psychology and mental health experts in the field give listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay powered visit Psych Central Dot com slash show. Oh Oh subscribe to the psych central podcast on your favorite podcast Playa. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient in an affordable online counseling. All counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better health dot com forward slash psych central and experienced experience. Seven days. A free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych. Central we're back talking about gives inpatient Hospitalization Association. So you roll up to the are you get out as you may know you do know and as I know 'cause I've been to the are lots of times you up to the desk and they ask you. What are you here for which luckily it's not a gunshot wound super emergency because they make you sit in the waiting room but you walk in and you say this is fascinating right so she did convince me to go obviously and here I am and we walk in and she says this is my friend Gabe and he wants to kill himself and the lady at the counter said great will be with you in twenty minutes? I know the the lady said you know okay. Here's here's the paperwork. We're going to have a social worker. Come over and talk to you and I honestly don't know how long we waited. But they took it very very seriously and they put me in a room behind signed a curtain and I remember the first person that talked to me was like a nurse and then a social worker. I very clearly remember a social worker and you know some other. Nurses ask me questions GIN and finally the emergency room doctor came in and asked me questions and that guy said something along the lines of we need to get you a psych consult so a psychiatrist. She's going to come and talk to you around this time when I just started to blackout. Do they ask you questions though you know when you go to your primary care physician or something and they say in the last two weeks have. Have you felt depressed. Have you had a hard time sleeping or they when you walk in and you say hi I want to kill myself for they like okay. Well let's what does that mean to you or are are they like okay. Cool so have you been sad lately or I mean what did they say. Here's where things are going to diverge greatly. I know what they're supposed to say I want. That'd be very clear. I've been in the mental health game for a long time and they have a questionnaire lists and follow up questions and they gauging you. They ask you if you're feeling suicidal. They ask you if you have a plan they ask. If you have access to means you know they ask you like you said. How have you felt over the last two weeks interferes with the activity of daily? Living comes up a lot that the day. I don't remember any of that. I remember a lot of people coming in and according to the woman who brought me to the hospital. I didn't seem to notice that they kept asking me the same questions. Over and over again we had the worst part about the Er they insane fucking thing over and over again. I did not notice and again at some point just completely completely blacked out and the next thing that yeah I remember was waking up in a psychiatric hospital okay. So let's talk. Let's talk about that because let's talk about what I think. Impatient looks like maybe not what I think. But let's talk about what girl interrupted Tommy. About what impatient looks like inpatient care. Looks like a bunch of people in a nice sunny room. I'm doped up out of their minds so they're not really walking. They're not really talking. They're just like hanging out weirdly and silently. Everybody has a room and a roommate which they get locked in at night. There's a line for meds that everybody stands in and a lot of people don't want to take their meds and then there's a group therapy part of the day and then there's a one on one therapy part of the day. How close am I so in some ways? You're not as far off as you think it makes me sad and other ways you're really really really far off. That's the thing about pop culture rate. The reason it's so devious is that it's got that little bit of truth in it. Are you locked in a psychiatric ward and or hospital. Yes yes absolutely. Do they try to make the rooms. Like really big and bright. Yeah they can't have have a lot of stuff in them. The furniture has to be extremely heavy. So you can't pick it up and throw it. The furniture has to be not cloth. Because you have to be able to wipe it down and listen if you look at any place in a hospital. All of that furniture is vinyl or leather. It's not cloth because there's fluids everywhere and is it ugly yes S.. You're not staying at a bed and breakfast. As far as the people doped up out of their mind no but yes do these people look like. They're having a good day. No we're in a hospital. Are you interacting with other people like the way that it's sort of like a group room because when I was in the hospital if I had a roommate I didn't WanNa talk to them. I don't want to look at them and there was no social area wasn't mingling. It was like I'm here trying not to die so there is a social area physically. Were Okay in general movement is good. They don't want us to lay in bed all day. Because you're depressed and you're feeling suicidal. And they let you sleep all day that that's not going to kind to help move you. Along rate they do get us out of our rooms and hoard us into like sort of that. You know that sunshiny room that you described with a bunch of people wandering wandering around as far as interactions concerned you know. That's a tough one. We are encouraged to interact with each other and by the last day I formed a basketball team that we call the straitjackets on the first day I sat in the farthest corner and held a book over my face that I was not reading but I wanted wanted people to think that I was reading. I also didn't want to see what was going on and people largely left me alone in the middle. I play checkers. So it's it's tough rate. Great I I don't think anybody the day they get to. The hospital. Wants to hang out with the other hospital and I wanNA talk in psychiatric. I just you know my my dad's been in the hospital for surgery. He's had a roommate each and every time I don't think he could tell you what they look like the marced he doesn't worst. Nobody wants to meet friends in the hospital and to use your girl. Girl interrupted and allergy. That might be the cruellest part of these movies. In my mind these movies these books they always end with these lifelong friendships. They always end with these. You met people who made you better. You met somebody that inspired you discovered that you love art. You know you were in the hospital. You were diagnosed. You were removed from crisis you were given emergency care and then and you leave you. Don't you're not besties with anybody you really aren't and I remember some of the stories of the people who I was in patient with and they're not even necessarily positive stories they're not negative ones. They're just it's just really hard. It's you're scared right and you're sick and hospitals are ugly and ugly for necessity. And that's something that I want to touch on right. So many people think that psychiatric hospitals and psychiatric wards are ugly because they hate the patients. They're not they're ugly because they have to be. The reason that the doors are locked is because they need to keep a safe somebody who's suicidal or not in their right mind just can't roam the hospital grounds. What if we get our hands on a on a knife from the cafeteria? They have to be able to control the area area. Are they control the area. You lock the doors. Are that like your bedroom door. Those get locked. Did they get locked. Didn't Okay I. The the ward was locked locked but so essentially the way that it worked and again your hospital may vary is there were wings. So I was in the mail wing. There was another wing for or females And then there was a geriatric wing which was for older people and only wear nightgowns right. Like that's in my head. They only wear nightgowns very long. Grey hair that is not been brushed in a minute also learned that in girl interrupted all wore street. Three close okay. All of us were in our street clothes and now the first day that I was in I came from the emergency room and I wasn't a gown but my street clothes were there when I woke Oh cup and figured out what was going on and where I was told me that I could take a shower and put on my street clothes and later that day. The woman who brought me to the psychiatric hospital brought me more clothes. And that's what I wear the whole time and so no no. There wasn't long stringy gray hair. I'm not saying that there wasn't somebody in a corner rocking back and forth because there was has listened that that is reality. Some people are sicker than others. It might also be a good idea to point out that girl interrupted was also about like really long term term care was also in this sixties when it was not as good as it may be today either right yeah like things have changed sh. Yeah Yeah and again. Since we're using girl interrupted. I don't think that it's a bad movie. And this is certainly this person's experience so it's really hard to say no. You're wrong right because I wasn't there but the takeaways that people are getting of sort of this like sad depressing miserable place where everybody's mean to you and you're locked in this room for some sort of punitive reason. I wanted to smell those myths but I also want to point out that it is depressing are locked in a room and some of this is against your will. I don't know how to put those things in my brain because the reason that you're locked in the room is to keep you safe but you're still an adult audie who's locked in a room. The reason that everything's ugly is because it's a hospital and hospital's ugly and their safety issues at large but we still can't get over the fact that it's ugly and like well. Well it's really depressing to be inpatient. No Shit it's depressing to be in the hospital it's depressing to be at the DMV. There's just things in life that even though this is the the best thing for us it is depressing. Life is depressing sometimes and this is really really difficult because in in a psychiatric hospital. We often believe that. These things are punitive. I believed with every single fiber of my being that the reason that that door was locked is because society society hated me and that was not why not why at all I want to ask a follow up to that when you left. Did you still feel that way. Yeah like when you walked out you were thinking to yourself. This door is locked because the society. Tate's me yes because they need to protect society -iety from people like me and that's the part that is just so incredibly unfair nobody dispelled me if any of these myths. I believe that that door was locked because society. Heidi was afraid of me and hated me and I was a bad person and nobody sat me down and told me that wasn't why it would be years years later after I reached recovery decided to become an advocate like I didn't even learn this like early in my advocacy days like I was holding national awards and published in national publications and finally. Finally I said said this to a psychiatrist. I said it's really mean to lock people behind doors because society is given up on them and the guy said that's not why we do it and and I said why do you do it. And he said you're suicidal. You're not in your right mind. You WanNa hurt yourself. You're a danger to yourself or others. We have to be able to control the environment. We I can't let you roam free. We have to have an environment that we know that you're safe in and that means that means walls fences doors windows locked. That's why we do it that I made so much sense. Okay so much sense. It took a psychiatrist years years years later to explain it to you. Yeah so looking back now. How do you feel about at that experience? I feel completely differently. Everything is different. I've learned so much from those days and I feel really lucky that I could talk to more people on both besides and learn more and realize that even though I felt was happening you know just being locked up because I was a danger to society hated me I I realize that there was just so much more to it than that. In those moments I could only see the world through the Lens of my own. Heis and becoming an advocate allowed me to see things from so many different perspectives society's perspective other patients perspective. The doctors perspectives. I don't know that I ever would have realized that. And this is why I believe in having conversations surrounding the bad things that happen to us right. Because if I hadn't had those conversations I would still still be walking around thinking that society hated me and locked me in a room because I was a bad person and I never ever would have seen the broader picture. Well and that's why we do the show right because as it turns out talking about these experiences make them easier for all of us to participate in and and appreciate yeah who knew it's almost like working out versus internalizing. It makes the world better and I had so much to say. We decided to break this up into a two part episode so this was one come back next week for part two and learn more about games inpatient adventurers errors. If you like this show. Please share US everywhere on social media rate US rank US use your words and stay tuned after the credits because we always put put funny shit there. We will see you next week with heart to. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups. There's IT PSYCH CENTRAL DOT COM non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash not crazy to work with gate go to gain power dot com. Tom Turek the Jackie. Go to Jack. Zimmerman dot co not crazy. Travels Wall has given Jackie recording episode. Live at your next event email show show and psych central dot com for details always awkward. Because we forget the time you now you can hear silence awed. It's the sound of silence Hello Jackie my old friend. I hope you come to my house again. You probably won't all right. The can you gotTa Bring Atom next time where I really worry that after you meet Lisa you'll be like yeah. Fuck I'm not saying it's awful state ever again. Those two are codependent as fuck. TVD honestly if you don't come away with that conclusion. I'm worried about your intelligence. CODEPENDENCY is like an upgrade for us. All right we're GONNA do the introduce each other thing. Do you want to go first. Yeah high-energy bring bring it in. Don't tell me what to low energy. Make people fall asleep neutral energy. Just be who you are yourself because that's gotten pretty far. Listen you should always be yourself unless you can be a unicorn. That'd be a Unicorn or Batman eh or joker probably not so you should start. Hello and welcome to this week's not crazy. I'm here with my co-host Gabe. Who lives with bipolar buypower? We should rename fuck me. Okay hello and welcome to is not crazy I am here with my co host. Fuck I hit the table. Already get it out of the ways talk.

Gabe Howard bipolar disorder Jack Zimmerman Jackie murder Pop Culture depressive disorder US basketball McDonald McDonald inpatient Hospitalization Asso Official Tom Turek Lisa
Canceling Plans Due to Anxiety

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

27:47 min | 5 months ago

Canceling Plans Due to Anxiety

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard. Welcome to this week's episode of the not crazy podcast. I would like to introduce my co host. Jackie and that I wanted to do something fun fact already. I just think we should leave that. I wanted to do something fun and I fucked it up already my call host gay as it turns out. I'm not funny but Mycosis Gabe Awe. Well I'm really glad that you are here. Jackie because I can record this podcast in my house and that means. I don't have to leave my house and while I am not agoraphobia. I do having Zaidi when it comes to going to certain places and that's our topic for this week's episode anxiety when it comes to leaving our homes and this is something that we've seen a lot of people asking about is. I'm anxious to leave the house or I'm anxious when I leave the house. And how do I get out of the house? What do I do to actually go into the world so we thought it was a good topic and Kudos to everybody for not wanting to be homebodies and our society is set up to make this easier than ever now? I don't WanNa do this thing. We're back in my day but yeah yeah back in my day. I couldn't really hang out in my house for weeks at a time because I'd eventually run out of food. I suppose. Pizza delivery was a thing but Amazon was not okay GRANPA. Gabe while we have all these lovely amenities now to where you can stay home if you want. But it's not. The point of the show. Point of the show is leaving. I don't know if it was easier to be a quote unquote home body thirty years ago than it is today on one hand people seem to be away from home more often and I wonder if that general societal slide into not being home very often creates extra fear panic anxiety in people who want to be homebodies. And where is that line because some people just like to stay home and there's nothing wrong with that but we do see a lot of you need to get out more on the Internet for people who are just like no. I don't I just I don't want to. It's a choice. It's not anxiety it's a choice. I think that's a good point that I didn't really think about was. We have more things that take us out of the House these days maybe not more but I feel like there's so many things to do all the time that when you are out of the House maybe wish you weren't and I think that's a side effect of being a human at least adamant I talk about that all the time where we make plans and then immediately regret that we made plans. Because we don't want to go anywhere so I also hear that that is adulting all of this just to say. I am curious as a person living in America. How much of this is caused by like Fomenko? Fear of missing ants where? You're not anxious. You're not having a mental health issue. You're not having a mental illness symptom. Everything is finding your life. It's just a Saturday afternoon. You just want to put your feet up and read a book but in your brain your brain is like you should get out more. I guess sometimes I just feel that people get shamed for staying home and that makes me sad because I really like my home and I'm a very extroverted person as you know and even I just like to out at home if I could stay home and never leave ever again. I would gladly do it. I hate leaving my house. Yes I like. Interact with the world and things but I- legitimately would stay home. That's why I have such a great work from home person because I will work from home and never go anywhere. It's amazing but it's not related to anxiety for me. I just really like being at home. I like my stuff in my animals and my husband and I just WanNa be here well. Let's talk about that for a moment. Jackie let's talk about your specific situation. You are a person with an anxiety disorder so you understand the anxiety surrounding just minuscule tasks right yet. Just Hey I've got to go get the mail at the end of the driveway. No you understand that kind of situation rights. Yes but you've also said that you never ever want to leave your house but if you never left your house you could never see Hanson live. That is that is true. There are things I want to leave the House for. Right. It's just. I'm not looking forward to leaving the house. I will do fun things. I will go places I don't really want to. I'm happy when I did and I don't know maybe. There is a root cause of anxiety in there somewhere. I don't feel anxious when I leave. I feel like dread like I just don't want to. Let's put it right in the context of the Hanson concert. Because you love Hanson. I do I absolutely do. Do make me not love it. Nope not not doing a justice. Nope NOPE did. You get anxiety when you left for your last Hanson concert now so so if it is something genuinely that you WanNa do you do not experience anxiety. I was super anxious when we got there though. Because there were so many fucking people everywhere but the actual active leaving to go. There was not an anxiety ish anxious. -IETY producing diety having. This is interesting to me because for many people again one size does not fit all for many people. They have the thing that they want to do. And they're excited about that. In in this case it's the Hanson concert but they're afraid to leave their house for fear of having a bad experience at anxiety attack panic attacks something bad happening so it's not that they're afraid to leave their house. It's not that they don't want to go to in this case the Hanson concert. If that they're afraid that when they get to the hands and concert though have a panic attack. They'll be in harm's way though embarrass themselves. They'll hurt their suffer etc. That is generally how anxiety surrounding leaving your home works. It's more of a fear of what might happen after you leave than it is about the person place or thing agree. I mean I think I agree totally experiences a lot but from what I have read from people who listen to our podcast or interact with US online. It does sound like that is the more common scenario. Is I leave the house but I'm afraid of what happens once I leave the house which is different from. I am afraid of leaving the house you know like I'm so anxious I cannot leave because I can't do anything when I'm at home. I can't function I can't clean cannot move because I'm so anxious. I'm paralyzed by it. That's different than I'm willing to leave but I'm a little bit afraid of what happens on the outside. Generally speaking the prep to leave is filled with excitement. As you pointed out in your example. You're excited to make the plans made the plans for a reason. Whatever is on the other end of your door you are excited to get to that doesn't magically change. It's the fear of the unknown. That's really what it comes down to. Your House is safe. The place that you're going while fun and exciting potentially could not be safe and not based on anything that that place did you know you didn't read in the paper that the building's going to be condemned or that security is lacking there. There's not like a virus threat or it's none of that. It's just that you could have a panic attack and now you're sitting there shaking panicking sweating. Your heart palpitation. You're you're getting dizzy. You're embarrassed because well in my case I would completely swept through all of my clothes and be just a dripping soaking wet sweaty. Rag will now. I'm going to ruin it for my friends or my wife if I stay home. I won't ruin it Chris. I have it at all but I won't ruin it. I also think that it's worth noting here that we are putting a lot of rational thought behind the reasons why maybe somebody has anxiety once they leave the house but for me anxiety makes no sense. It never makes sense at all. It's always just my body going like run run from what I don't know and so I think it's worth noting that you might be excited to leave the house and you're anxious the moment you walk out the door but you have no idea why you just are. It's just part of how you are in that moment. It's really weird. How anxiety sort of manifests itself in me. Because I'm a public speaker. I don't mind being on stage in front of a thousand people that doesn't bother me at all. I don't mind that the podcast that we do are listened to by tens of thousands of people. Are You my name? My thoughts and my opinions are out there a lot and as such I get a lot of blowback and doesn't bother me at all. I have no idea why this causes me zero anxiety but I gotta panic attack at Disney world or Disneyland. Whichever ones in Florida. I don't know why I wasn't afraid to leave my house to go to Disneyland. I was or world. I wasn't afraid to leave the hotel that morning but something happened the place that I had planned in my mind to get a diet coke was out of. Diet Coke and Poof. It just went poof to me that makes total sense though because Disney world land. Sounds like I can think of no place. I want to go less than life than Disneyworld land because there are so many people there and children which I don't like I just feel like I would be anxious all the time big crowds make me anxious lots and lots of people. If I'm speaking to those people I'm not interest but if I'm like in the crowd with them I get pretty anxious. And that's a new thing that has developed later in life. That was never thing before so I don't know what that's all about but I just don't think I would have fun there and I think a lot of people look at the amount of people the traffic the foot traffic for Disneyworld land on a day is just bananas. I thought you were going to say it was goofy BARF but sometimes we have to do things because are also want to i. I'm with you. Jackie Disneyworld land was not my vacation pick. It was my wife's vacation pick and part of being in in any good relationship whether it's a marriage of friendship a family or even with co workers is sometimes they have to get their way. This was very important to my wife. I I'm very glad that I went and while I agree that this Yubari sugary all it was it was just. It was just so gooey. Perfect that it just just I'm starting to get like like like hives. I don't know it was kind of NEAT. I did have fun. Maybe I had fun because I saw it through. My Wife's is I don't know but I guess this is one of the areas where I think to myself. I could've used my anxiety disorder to avoid the trip altogether. I could've used the anxiety and panic attack that I had that morning to avoid the rest of the day. At what point do we have to fight through the anxiety for our benefit? And at what point do we owe it to? The people that were with one of my biggest fears is that my anxiety hurts the people around me I. I made a promise to my wife that we'd have a good time at Disneyworld. Land and that panic attack did it on a ruined. The morning might. My wife is just sickeningly wonderful. She didn't let it get to her but it did cost us a couple of hours. I think the guilt is always a factor. Ray even if it's just I was late for something because I was panicking or we didn't get to do something because I was panicking or I was a dickhead this morning because I was panicking. I feel like the guilt surrounding all of this is not Light if feels very heavy and it feels if feels like. I'm ruining things for other people. If it happens. I often feel that my anxiety disorder impacts the people around me and it creates another layer. So I'm afraid to leave the house because I'm afraid I'm going to have a panic attack and suffer. I'm afraid to leave the house because I'm afraid that that panic attack. That suffering is going to have negative consequences on other people. My wife is very supportive and frankly she helps me leave the house going with her makes me feel stronger and better supported and better able to deal with a lot of the things that may be scare me about leaving my house going to an unknown place. But that's a wife. It's a lot harder when I have to do this for a friend and I think that maybe sometimes we create through our anxiety some of these self fulfilling prophecies that we believe that people have abandoned us because of our mental illness because of our mental health issues because of our anxiety but in actuality we abandoned them because of our mental health issues mental illnesses or anxiety because they kept making plans with us. And we kept cancelling at the last minute. I struggle with this a lot because I see these memes on facebook. Where they're like self care. Is cancelling plans at the last minute. Self Care is not answering the text immediately self-care saying no to invitations and that's all true. I completely agree with all of that. But from the other person's perspective you cancelled plans at the last minute interrupting their time. They texted you. And you didn't reply and they keep inviting you out and you said No. And then I see the other stock of memes. It's like people abandoned me because of my mental illness. That's stigma and discrimination. How does that factor into this nightmare? That is an anxiety disorder That's so true. Sometimes when people invite me places when I say no because I just don't want to. I always thank them for inviting me and say like. Please invite me again some time because I might be willing to leave the house sometimes But it's true right. You're there's the foam. Oh but then there's the Jomo which is the joy of missing out. So you have these self-care memes which are in direct opposite of the other ones of people. Stop talking to me. I lost my friends. All the things that you've already just said. I don't know the middle ground. Were doing the thing where you're like. I'M GONNA stand my ground. I'm going to say no and do this for me. And then you say no to everything versus like just some things or it's the complete opposite of ICS to everything and I'm super drained all the time and nobody gives me time to rest and everything awful. It's supposed to be a balancing act. It's everything is supposed to be in moderation. We'll be right back after these messages. Interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field. Give listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay powered visit. Psych CENTRAL DOT com slash. Show all subscribe to the Psych Central. Podcast on your favorite podcast player. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are license accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days. Free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych central and. We're back talking about why leaving the house sucks. Just kidding. We're talking about anxiety. The thing to be careful about right is that you're just not constantly cancelling the same person over and over again and this is where we have to be more judicious with the things that we agree to do. I'm one of these people. Wear my friend. Jackie calls me. And she's like do you want to go to the club. It opens at eleven P it Putin pants and boots pants and boots pants and boots and pants. And we're going to address like seventies and it's GonNa be awesome three months from now. It's on Halloween and I'm like I want to dress up like Halloween. And and then of course it gets there and I'm like Oh man I normally go to bed at like ten o'clock. I don't have this outfit. The music is loud strobe lighting. Now I call you up and I'm like hey I can't make it. You're pissed you're agreeing with me but but but pretending really excited about this because Hanson's going to be there it's Hanson. It's always comes back to Hanson. But you have tickets. You bought your costume. You've been looking forward to this for three months. We've had conversations about it. It's now the day before. That's my numbing -ly awful for you because you put all this time energy efforts and money into this and you're excited to share it with me and I just bailed on you and if I'm being honest I probably gave you a bullshit reason. Hey I'm not feeling well and my kids are sick. And I've got to take the dog out and you know Kendall. She had surgery seven months ago. And I I really. Can't it snowing so yes? Sorry and that's an a text message that I don't reply. Would it have been better? If when you got all excited about this and I got wrapped up in it. I realized that hey boots and pants boots pants and boots and pants at eleven. Pm is just not a thing that I want to go to and I told you know and then I said to you. Look I'm always going to say no to that. It's not my thing but could we maybe go to lunch at a restaurant that I feel more comfortable with. Is this where the onus falls on the person with the anxiety disorder to be better? Yes obviously that would have been better for sure. But I also think that we're getting a little bit off topic because we're talking about canceling plans. That have already been made. And I think that if we're focusing on how to get out of the house those are different right. 'cause that's something like you're like. Oh I'm super anxious. I don't WanNa go to this thing. That's a little bit different than cancelling plans. I think okay. So let's talk about that because the the anxiety makes makes me makes makes us if we're being honest. Cancel Shit all the time. Yes it just does so. Let's talk about strategies not to do that. So it's now the day before the boots and pants and boots and pan boots and I WANNA cancel. What are some things that I could do to ensure that I show up at eleven? Pm Dressed in the seventies garb so that you can have your strobe lights and here Hanson and you are not just bitterly disappointed. That your buddy. Gabe bailed on you for the hundredth time. I mean I could tell you all the things that are the right things right. I would tell you Mixture you have everything planned out. Make sure you have your directions lined up maybe take a nap during the day. talk to somebody about. Maybe why you don't WanNa go and have them amp up in all those things but I'm GonNa tell you for me. It's just get off your ass and go and dreaded the hallway there be angry in the car there be sad maybe pouch talk about how much you hate it and you really wish you were at home and then get there and be like. It's not so bad because it always is not so bad whenever I agree to do something it's because I want to do. It sounds like fun. It's just getting me there. That sucks so once I'm there. It's generally okay but I have not found a way to sort of get me amped to get going when I've already decided I don't WanNa go. I have to just suck it up and go. And that's the only thing that really works for me and most of it honestly is if rounds money did I pay for this thing already if I paid for it. I'm probably going to suck it up and go if I haven't paid for it then. I might cancel. I like the the. Don't lose money. I'm really all about pre-planning one of the things that I have learned is to say to you. Jackie I wanna go with you because that does sound interesting. I've never been to a party like that. I want to do the CO host costume idea with you. But I'm GonNa need some things from you to make this happen so I'm being very honest with you and what I'm GonNa say is I need you to pick me up. I need you Jackie to drive to my house and put me in your car and drive me there because I have lot of anxiety about driving to places that I've never been before I don't know where to park afraid I'm gonNA lose my car. I just call this entire method. The buddy system. I tell all of my friends that you have significantly better odds of migo Wayne in you. Pick me up now. I try to be nice about this either. Buy Dinner or dessert or I offer people gas money or I've had my friends drive over to my house and we take my car. I'll do the driving. But you do the directing like like. Maybe that helps or all of my friends. I'm okay driving all of their houses so all drive and pick them up. Because I'm comfortable driving from my house to their house so meeting. There is almost something that I never ever ever ever do and I'm shocked at how big of a difference this makes. I think that's an excellent idea. It also makes it so you really. You can't back out on the way there because you're not driving. It also helps because it setting those small goals writes. My plan is okay. At nine o'clock I pick up. Jackie like that's my plan. Gabe what are you doing? At nine o'clock I pick up Jackie or at nine o'clock. Jackie picks me up. And this gets me into my next thing. I call it pre gaming now. I know that the younger generation that means drinking expensive alcohol cheap at home so that you can continue drinking low-grade alcohol when you have to pay for it. That's not what I mean so I I just mean. The eleven o'clock thing scares me. I've never been to this bar of never had the music. The Strobe Lights. I am for whatever reason anxious about it so Jackie. Picks me up at nine o'clock and we go to olive garden in because I like olive garden so now I have to be ready at nine. That's step one then. I go to olive garden with Jackie which I like and then after olive garden. Jackie drives me to the thing that I'm scared of. I'm slowly ramping up in the evening. D- outweigh it. Just seems more manageable to me. This helps me a lot here like a child that gets treat before dinner. Let's do the thing that makes me happy before we do the thing that I don't know that I really WanNa to do exactly and I want to be clear that I feel that. Not only does the slow ramp up. Help manage my anxiety but I also told you that that's why we're doing it. I've told you Jackie that I'm nervous about this. I'm anxious I need your help. I need a slow build and another thing that I I try to do is I remind myself okay. I just have to do this for a half an hour. I make like a clear goal with you. I'm like okay. I'll do this. But every half hour we reassess we will go at eleven so at eleven thirty. We decide if we're GONNA stay and it's it's to yeses in one. No if I say I want to go and you WANNA stay. Tough Shit relieving. Well I I think we live in a time where that doesn't necessarily have to play anymore right. You can always lift yourself home. You know which I think is a great option that we have now where I've gone places. I can't think of a great example right now but I know this has happened that I was like yes. We'll stay the whole time. And then I look Ma and kind of hate this so just gotTa lift and left. And nobody was mad. I didn't make anybody miss out on what they were doing. There wasn't a lot of guilt because they were still enjoying the thing that we set out to do. It was like everybody wins. Yes and your friends so often when I explain these things. People are like that is like Uber High Maintenance Gabe who would tolerate that? The answer is my friends my friends and family and they always hate it when. I say that they tolerate it because they listen to this and let Gabe. We don't tolerate it. You were honest with us from the beginning and I really liked my friends and family. Because they're like you realize you never leave you. Close the place down. You always say okay. I'll go for a half an hour and you're the last person out the door you you have so much fun. It's the initial getting there. That terrifies me so much once. I'm there figured out. Where the exits are. I figured out where the bathrooms are figure out how to get a drink. I I make friends with the servers. I I understand the outfit people talking to me. Then it's like poof. I am the the Gabe that people know in love. So they're kind of banking on that. But the few times that I have left that I've I've invoked the half an hour clause. They're just like hey it's a good trade. I'm thankful that I have the right people in my life. I really really am and I understand that not. Everybody has that but I am a little bit sincere when I say maybe the reason you don't have this in your life is because you didn't plan for it. You pulled the rug out from under them by telling them that everything was fine pretending that everything was fine and then after you were there for a half an hour you freak out and you leave and then when they ask what happened you say stuff like it was too loud and it was stupid. Who does this and you start insulting the thing. Would you really say that all my God? I'm in a I'm in the middle of anxiety and panic attack. I'm sweating through my clothes. My heart is racing and I think I'm going to die. I will say whatever it takes to get the hell out of there. I would just leave but we drove together. I don't care I will stand outside and wait for your call lift. I do see what you did there. Jackie and I love it. Listen up listeners. Here is what we need you to do. Wherever you downloaded this podcast. Please subscribe rate and Review Sheriff's on Social Media and use your words. Tell people why they should listen and finally if you have any show topics ideas are burning questions. Email us at show at psych central Dot Com. And tell us all about them and remember after the credits is all of the outtakes and all of the things that Jackie and I just fucked up along the way and it's ultra funny and it will make our producer and editor really really really happy if you listen to it. We'll see you next week. You've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies. Official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with gave go to gain power dot com to work the Jackie go to Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels. Well have given Jackie recording episode. Live at your next event. Email show at psych central dot com for details. And it's true and sometimes I wish we all just like were t shirts that said like. I melted down earlier today. Nice to me either or I have cancer. It'd be nice to meet like we're not going to get shirts based on this and we're not going to get the whole world to wear them so my shirt system is out so I don't know Jackie. I have a shirt that says bipolar. And I have the bipolar Tattoo on my body. So I think that I am doing my part to make your shirt plan a reality. I literally have a Hoodie. That says ask me about my J. Pouch on it so but getting the rest of the world to jump on. This train is going to be a little bit harder a little bit harder but it is not outside the realm of possibility if we leave our house and we organized the people. It's not crazy idea Saturday.

Jackie Zimmerman Dot Hanson Gabe Awe Jack Zimmerman America US Zaidi Amazon Florida Disney facebook Chris Disney Howard Ray Official Putin
I Fear My Spouse Will Abandon Me

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

25:04 min | 7 months ago

I Fear My Spouse Will Abandon Me

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard show and welcome to this week's episode of not crazy. I'm here with my co host Gabe. And of course I'm here with my co host. Jackie and we were talking this morning about something. That's been weighing pretty heavily on your mind and I thought let's make this into an episode because that's our lives so you've been talking a lot about anxiety around the idea of your wife leaving you it. It's true I don't know why she's giving me no reason to think this. I just I wish and another kind of a messed up thing to say but I wish that she gave me a reason to feel this way because then I wouldn't feel so crazy we've been married almost eight years. There's no problems were not in the middle of fight. I just have this gut got visceral strong feeling that the woman's GonNa leave me. Have you had this feeling in your marriage with Kendall or at any past relationships before well? I'm having this feeling in my marriage with Kendall right now no but like previously like. Has this ever happened before no no? It's never happened before with Kendall. It has happened. You know what no no? This is the first time I ever been jealous or had these feelings ever in my life. You know now that I think about it. No when all of my other relationships ended I was completely blindsided. I have always been the dumped. Never the dumpy. Because yeah yeah well. My first marriage it just turns out women don't like to be married to untreated by polars in my my second marriage. We're still friends which is weird but it was messed up Okay another thing yeah. It's like memory lane. Thanks thanks. You'RE WELCOME. That's what we're here for you miserable but your talking about this in therapy which like. Yahu for therapy we know I love it. What is your therapists? Say My therapist lakes through this thing called chain analysis where we know that I have this feeling so now. Let's back up to why I have the feeling so and then when you connect those things you can work on it. The problem is backwards. Doesn't lead anywhere. I have this feeling. Okay what's the one step back? Well I don't want my wife to leave me because I love her. Okay what's the one step back from that? Has She giving you any reason? No the best that I can come up with is my wife. She's beautiful she's intelligent and this is one of the burdens of marrying somebody way younger than you either. She was like twenty six when we got married. And now she's not she's she's just achieved so much in the last eight years and she's not the same person and this person is so incredible that it would be lunacy for her to stay with me. What do you bring to your marriage? I bring bipolar disorder to our marriage a panic disorder and anxiety disorder. I mean those are those are some some pretty nifty things to to bring into a marriage. Okay right but what else do you bring to your marriage smart ass? Obviously I do bring things to the marriage I I do all the cooking. I do all the cleaning. I handle like the household or tasks like you know. The the minutia of life is all handled by me. I do bring that to the marriage. Okay but I'm going to ask you again. What else do you bring to the miracle? Basely like I'm her personal assistant through all of those things. What else makes your marriage uniquely yours. Because you're in it. I just told you I was her personal assistant. I am her personal assistant. I I handle all of that stuff for her. Which is why it wouldn't be so big of a loss to lose me. The other day I said to Kendall if I left you would have all the same things that you have now except the dog. I'm taking the dog. And she said no right. Yeah yeah she said no you sweet loving hug me kissed me told me. I was wonderful but come on which is supposed to say. You can't tell the dude that you're married to that you're living with. Yeah that's a good point. I could hire all of the things that you do for me and not have to tolerate your dumb ass okay. You're looking at all literally the physical things that you bring to your marriage right you are there you do all of these things that are like. I am physically exist in the same room as my wife. What you're not remembering or not seeing or not acknowledging is that you bring more to your marriage and just like the acts you perform and the reason why this is really important to me personally is because I live with two chronic illnesses one of which could make me completely physically unable to take care of myself at any moment literally at any minute. Ms could be like you can't walk anymore. You can't feed yourself. This is Real Fun Party. So you bring more to your merits and just like the AX. You perform for her. You offer her companionship. You offer her comedic relief. You offer her emotional support in everything. I'm sure and while I'm sure you're gonNA tell me it doesn't matter because you're bipolar. Because you detract a as much as you give Blah Blah Blah. You're failing to see that. The root of your marriage is the relationship you have formed with Kendall and all those other things are like a bonus. I'm not a stupid person. I agree with you and if the tables were turned if you were calling me up and you were saying Gabe Adams GonNa leave me. I would say all of the things to you that you are now saying to me and I get it. I get the idea that Kendall is a grown woman and if she is chosen to be married to me she obviously wants to be married to me and she is getting something out of it. I I don't know maybe I make the best spaghetti. I listen. I honestly don't know what it is and I have asked her. I have like why would you be married to me? And she's like well. My life is never boring. Why is this a priority? What do you mean your life is never boring one have you looked around? We live in suburbia all the houses. Look the same. Our life is boring as fuck. I just I can't find that thing I just. I can't find that thing in lieu of turning this into full blown therapy because as we know I love therapy. I'm not good at giving it to other people. Are you saying that you're not a licensed therapist? I am not. I also don't know how to therapies other people so I'm just taking what I've learned here. I would encourage you to go to Kendall and ask her to work to elaborate and maybe she's good in writing. Maybe she's good at talking like speak to her strengths of helping her. Understand what you bring to your marriage because I assume that it's never boring. Is a umbrella statement for a lot of tiny things that are great about you and what you bring to your marriage but a therapy session over what is really happening. Here is a lot of unwarranted anxiety. And you're trying to navigate it right. I'm just scared that she's going to leave. And I feel that I need a backup plan for when it happens and the keyword there. Being when I've been through two divorces I had a significant relationship where we live together and my biological father took one look at me when I was born. I was like yeah. No I've suffered a lot of loss of people who are alive and I haven't even gotten into the loss I've suffered from people who have passed away and I've lost a lot of people relationships jobs social status from living with bipolar disorder. So loss is just ingrained. It's just ingrained into me. In fact I firmly believe that I have lost more people than I have gained. And what happens when Kendall is one of them? I don't want to be caught with my pants down. That's not a double entendre. Just I sincerely mean I just. I don't WanNa be alone. I don't WanNa call my mom and dad and tell them that I blew another marriage. I don't WanNA reach over in the middle of the night and have nobody be there and I want to know how to protect myself from that happening. Because if she goes away. That's going to happen to me. That's going to happen to me again and I don't know that I can get through it for a fifteenth time. Oh I have so many things I wanNA say and most of them are encouraging first and foremost like you know that you will get through it because evidence of your life has shown that you have gotten through it every time you survived right. It may not have been pretty but you did it. You're still here. All those other losses did not destroy to the point of no return. I know you're GonNa want like say well but you know I did get admitted. Bal right like all those other things but like you're saying I'm here. I'm very resilient at being dumped. You're a functioning human being. You'RE ON THE PLANET. You have survived everything so far greater Sure but come on. There's people that have had their limbs hacked off that survived. I don't subscribe to this notion that whatever doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Oh I don't either. There's lots of things that don't kill you. That make you really fucking weak agree but at the root of it all you have gotten through all of it right. It wasn't fun you didn't want to but you did you got through all of it. I did. And you currently lead a life. That is good and happy and sustainable. And let's talk about that for a moment. You're right. This is the best I've ever been and sincerely that's part of the problem. This is the best my life has ever been. I am forty three years old. This is the most stable. This is the happiest this is the healthiest. This is the wealthiest. This is the most in love. This is the everything I mean even if we want to like turn it into you know. Money Equals Happiness. Well I've got the biggest house. I've got the nicest car and I've got the least amount of debt if you WANNA turn it into. Oh it's the people you know. I Know Kendall kindles amazing. I know you Jackie your amazing. I have like two best friends. I'm not saying I don't want more friends. I'm just we all want more but if I just take base look at what I have. It's the most I ever had and all I can think of and all that goes through my mind is this is the most I will lose so when you talk about will I get through it. I don't know I've never fallen from this height. I'm having a really her time to that because I am because I'm tearing up because I relate to it and looking at a position in my life where I have the most to lose because I am doing well and I'm very happy and very love didn't successful But I think that that's when we start to catastrophes things when things are going the best were always waiting for the other shoe to drop in for you right now. It's manifesting Kendall leaving. I'm always thinking about Adam dying. Always I'm always thinking about Adam dying and it's the worst like I've I've never loved anybody so deeply appreciated their presence in my life so much that I've had to think about what does it mean when they're gone. So I can relate. It's different but I can totally relate but I think that you're in a portent position right now because now you have to figure how to not turn this into a self fulfilling prophecy where you tell Kendall over and over and over again you're gonNA leave and then finally she's like. I can't handle this anymore. I'M GONNA leave. You know catastrophe right. It's making a mountain out of a molehill and yeah. I know that I'm doing that again. The logical part of my brain is absolutely firing on all cylinders. And the second thing is that self fulfilling prophecy if I look backwards from this vantage point. I drove people away. I'm not saying that they were a hundred percent right and I was one hundred percent wrong. It's never that simple. But I'm just saying that constantly worrying about something and obsessing over it and focusing on it it does mean that you're not focusing on the things that keep a relationship healthy and safe. If I look at Kendall and I think what can I do to get you to stay? I'm going to of mice and men her pet the rabbit to death. I don't want to do that but when I lay awake at nights it seeps in and obviously open communication is a powerful tool for this and it is helping. We'll be right back after we hear from her sponsors interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field. Give listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay powered visit Psych Central Dot com slash. Show also subscribe to the Psych Central. Podcast on your favorite podcast player. Hey not crazy listeners. I WanNa tell you about dot com. They have stripped down the creating purchasing process to the basics. They don't sell fancifully named or enhance strains instead they keep it simple for their customers head over to create them crazy dot com now. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and tax with their therapist. Whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional face to face session go to better help dot com forward slash psych central an experienced seven days. A free therapy to see online. Counseling is right for you. Better help dot com forward slash psych central. And we're back discussing our fear of losing our spouses. Have you talked to Kendall about all of this one hundred percent? This episode is not going to shock her in any way. I've told her how I feel. We've talked about it a lot and that has helped like that is probably the biggest defense in all of this previously. I just internalized it. One hundred percent and I answered my own questions which frankly is just a jerk. Move rate when you're having conversations with another person and your speaking for them and they don't even know the conversation is going on like that just makes you a jackass. So I have these fears and I just said to Kendal. I feel like you're gonNA leave me. And she of course said. I'm not going to leave you. Why do you think that way and I told her why I imagine for you? It's a little harder Jackie because I don't know if you've told Adam that you're afraid he's going to die but it's obviously a lot more difficult for him to reassure you and that does make me wonder like what has been your tactic for this because like you said you're at the highest point of your life as well. I have talked to Adam about this. And honestly the most reassuring moments. You can't reassure somebody you're you're not gonNA die right. This isn't Captain America. Where you're like. I promise I will never die. But he said to me I think about that too because I thought it was. Just me just panicking. Like worst case. Scenario wins a shoe GONNA drop. What if he dies? What do I do? How will I ever get through this and he told me he thinks about it too? Which is weirdly comforting. Doesn't solve anything for either of us. But it was like he feels the same way about his life. He's afraid of losing what we've got to and again. These are different scenarios but I think the difference between where you in Kendall are right now is that Kendall is not afraid that you're going to leave because she's super super confident in where you're at and she believes in what you have and I'm not saying that you don't but I'm saying that you've got some life experience and some internal doubt. Probably maybe there's some internal conflict may here abandonment issues out the WAZOO. Let let's call a spade this nothing to do with Kendall. I have unresolved abandonment issues. That have gone unchallenged for way too long and became and became a thing so check check check. You know the root of all this and and you know that like you're projecting this you're kind of putting this on her of I feel this way. I'm afraid of this and it's manifesting into like what I think you're going to do about it. I am always going to tell you to keep going to therapy Therapy is the best place that I've worked out. My abandonment issues. And even I've even talked about like I'm afraid Adams going to die and basically what I learned the quiet thing that people who are happily married. Don't talk about is we're all afraid. Our spouses are going to die at any minute. The second I started talking about that was the first time I had multiple people be like. Oh Yeah I think about this all the time and I was like. Oh that's what marriage is constantly being. Your favorite person in the whole world is going to die which is awful. It's a bad commercial for marriage. It shows how much you value that person and I think that's the root of this right. You Value Kendall you want her around and you added abandonment issues especially ones that have not been tackled into probably something very tiny. I'm sure there was a catalyst and it was something so small you either didn't realize it or it seemed mundane and it has slowly started to build into a full-blown divorce and that's the kind of shit that ruins marriages. You know. Jackie I think about these things a lot because of our job. It's our job to research all of these concepts to put together shows and to figure out what part of our personal lives we're going to discuss. And what part of our personal lives were not going to discuss. And where's the gray area and what's too far and what's not enough and we lead very open lives and on one hand. That's great because I want to educate people but on the other hand you know sometimes I get email and there's like oh my God. Your marriage is so perfect. I wish I could have your marriage and I think to myself. My marriage isn't perfect. Kendall's GonNa leave me at any moment which is completely manufactured in my head and then I tell people that and I talked to people in in support. Groups are just out and about what I'm speaking or whatever and people will say to me. I want your mirrors. Well listen you know. My marriage is a perfect. You know we fight about the dishes you know. We have to discuss how to spend money. It's just the world is not the Internet. Facebook is your best self. Instagram is your best pictures no double Chins on instagram. Everything's filtered and and I think that's part of my problem too. I honestly believe that my grandparents have a better marriage than they probably do. Because my grandparents aren't gonNA fight in front of the kids. They're not going to sit me down. And say hey. We had this conflict back in nineteen twenty two. You Know I. I don't know what they're fighting about. But it's their personal relationship so we're comparing everybody's public self to our private self and I think that tolls on me as well because I'm just constantly looking at other people's marriages and deciding that mine is bad which is only going to end in disaster as your friend right now. I want to tell you all the things. I'm supposed to tell you right like Gabi. No that's not right. You can rationalize your way through this. You can talk to Kendall you. Can you know everything that I'm supposed to say right now like so? Let's pretend like I said all that stuff because I want to and I mean it but I mean the reality is like sometimes specifically with anxiety. You can rationalize your way through it to your blue in the face but it doesn't make it go away. It's still there one of the best books that I've ever read was by a gentleman named Dr Glove Too. Persky and he wrote a book called. Never Trust your gut. Now he wrote it in in the sense of business. You know if you're making a business decision based on your gut that stupid and he gives many many examples but one of the examples that he gives the reason people get conned is because they're trusting their got con. Men are really good at making you excited making you feel good you know. They don't talk about the ten thousand dollars. You have to send the Iranian prince. They talk about how you're going to spend the hundred thousand dollars if they're going to send back and they get you excited about that you feel really good to get this influx of money in to help your family and your gut is telling you this is fantastic. And it overrides the logical part of your brain that says. Hey you're sending ten thousand dollars to a stranger in another country. There's a lot of that here that I think is just exceptionally powerful for all of us to remember and all of us to know our gut lies just because something feels good. Doesn't make it good and taking that pause to remember. Kendall loves me. I think we can all be smarter in remembering that and I really think that that is the best way forward. It's really easy to get caught in the cycle in your brain of like this will happen and then this will happen in this and you get in this incredible downward spiral where you're at rock bottom and like four seconds. You're like well. My life is shit now even when none of those things have happened. And it's really hard to come out of it because now you've convinced yourself it's GonNa happen no matter what one of the things that I do. I will take it to the worst case scenario to see what happens in almost every time. I'm still alive at the end of it. Which is a silver lining? I guess Made my life is terrible but I'm still alive so I've got that but another thing that I do. That is probably less depressing. Is I will journal out the good things. I practiced gratitude. They try to do three a day in a tiny journal. I'm not very good at it but I do think about it and it's almost always. I'm so grateful for Adam. I'm so grateful. He's in my life and sometimes it just ends up being writing those positive things over and over and over again a page of like. I'm so happy I'm so grateful. Everything is fine. I will be okay and even if it only solves it for like thirty five seconds. It's still thirty five seconds that I don't feel like the biggest pile of shit on the plant him and it's important to remember that thirty. Five seconds is a lot and it's forward progress in its forward momentum. Listen Am I going to become the happiest person tomorrow? Probably not but I really do think that I can do better and Jackie. Of course. Obviously you've been talking to me about this for weeks and we didn't have to talk about this on the air so Kudos for suggesting that you get paid for it. Yeah I know I'm a genius right but part of it also though is what we do. There is a level of forced vulnerability right. We could not talk about any of this. We could just keep it all behind the scenes in end do like uplifting pop culture reference shows. But that's not real and that's not the show that we wanted to do so right back at you like you chose to share this part and I think it's important. Thanks Jackie and hey listeners. We got not crazy stickers if you want some email show it's like central Dot Com and we'll tell you how to go about it. Stay tuned after all of the credits. Because we always put funny stuff there and finally wherever you downloaded this podcast. Please subscribe please. Rank please review sheriff's on social media. Email us to a friend. Hey if you have a social circle and you're all at dinner. Tell them about the not crazy podcast. Jackie and I consider it a personal favor. We'll see you all next week. You've been listening to not crazy. From psych central for fremantle health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy to work with Gabe. Go to gain power dot com to work the. Jackie go to Jack Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels while half Gabin. Jackie recording episode live at your next event emails show at Psych Central Dot Com for details. Do I need to do more? I think that's good. We want to stop. This is really weird. Lisa's GONNA kill us. I don't can we kill it by the way he he shared this on facebook in the logos wrong county. Can we stop Sali's it kill us? I know this is sad but I like it when Lisa gets angry. Oh boy okay. I know how you want to sum this up like call. This thing like Gabes wife is gonNA leave him. Gave has an anxiety attack. I just I don't care but I have been talking about how his wife's GonNa leave his fat ass okay. Well I'm not going to say all right. There's gotTa be a word for fear of spouses leaving you. Sure there is one in German Shaiza.

Kendall Jackie I Adam Psych Central Dot Com Gabe Adams bipolar disorder Facebook anxiety Jack Zimmerman Kendall personal assistant Ms Lisa Howard Sali German Shaiza official Kendal
Survive the Holidays AND preserve your Mental Health

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

29:15 min | 10 months ago

Survive the Holidays AND preserve your Mental Health

"You're listening to not crazy. A psych central podcast and here are your host Jack Zimmerman and gave Howard pay attention. Not Crazy fans right now. Not Crazy listeners is get twenty five percents off a calm premium subscription at com dot com slash. Knock crazy that C. A. L. M. dot com slash. Not Crazy. Forty million. People have downloaded com. FIND OUT WHY ADT COM DOT com slash. Knock crazy. Welcome to not crazy. It is my pleasure to introduce my co host. Jackie Zimmerman a woman who lives with depression. And one of the few millennials. That isn't a Vegan. And you already know my co-host Gabe who lives with bipolar. But what you you might not know is that he recently had a birthday happy. Belated at this point birthday Gabe. You're just so nice. Thank you for remembering I am. I am not happy. Be that I aged but I was extremely pleased that facebook who has gotten a lot of bad press lately for you know all of the awful that they they have done but it was a place where I got a lot of positive accolades you know for not dying last year. FACEBOOK is a good place to celebrate a birthday. I won't lie. It does feel nice speaking of celebrations. Let's talk about the holidays. This is like holiday row rate no matter who you are what culture religion. There's a bunch of holidays and then of course on December thirty first. We're all going to celebrate New Year's Eve and this makes people with mental health issues social anxiety bipolar disorder schizophrenia. I just this is. This is a difficult time to have mental health issues. It's about to be the holiday gauntlet. Say Right because we're like looking down all of with them and then to make it worse January one. We're in a brand new decade. which I feel makes everybody reassess things even more than they would on a normal new New Year's Eve just a quick aside? Don't you really want Barbara Walters to bring in the New Year so that she can say I'm Barbara Walters and this is two thousand twenty. Yeah obviously obviously but like. I don't think that they really listen to the people in what we really want. I live with anxiety and I always feel like they. Hey you know. I'm making air quotes right now. Like they are out to get me but the holidays. They has a face because they suddenly become our family and mm friends who are working really really hard to get us to that holiday dinner. They suddenly becomes a societal expectations. Because after all everybody we also having a perfect holiday and I'm having a shitty one they it suddenly shown to me in pop culture and on social media and in commercials commercials all of the sudden they collapses and becomes very very personal. Oh you're so right Gabe when you think about holidays you you don't think about the way you think about your grandparents and your aunt and you're a weird uncle and your nieces and nephews. We're going to annoy the shit out of you. It is a very personal personal thing. The way that you said. Have there ever been any holidays that you've looked at and been like nope can't do it this year. I have participated in every single holiday. Ah Frankly on autopilot. I have to do it I have to go to thanksgiving. I have to go to Christmas I. I have to go to New Year's there really is this. Expectation dictation in my family that you will participate in the holiday hard stop and if you don't you'll be shamed for not doing so oh and I go back and forth on whether or not. That's reasonable right on one hand. My family loves me and they want me to be present on the other hand. Is this a boundary issue. Would they have been better off leaving me at home. So is this you have to show up and be present like you have to participate. What have you showed up in sat on the couch and didn't talk to anybody? Then you'd be my uncle David. I think it is a little bit of both. I've often said on this show that my family gets things like half right and half wrong. They will absolutely drag you by force of a lifetime of buttons and manipulations that your family placed in mm you and get you there. They will shame you into showing up but once you show up. It's a free for all you can sit in the corner and mind your own business. And they're chill with that. I mean they'll come over and try to play with your try to talk to you but mostly they'll come over and give you food. which makes me feel really good? I can honestly say I. I have never regretted going but I can also honestly say it was hard. It was a monumental thing to show up. How how many families do you generally have to see per holiday or do you break it up? In a way that's more digestible. I'm somewhat fortunate and then I handle like one family at a time because because like my wife's family is in one location and my family is in another one. There's none of this lake co existing of in-laws versus regular regular family. Like like what are they called like regular family. I think those are just your family. I like the people who fucked me up or not with the people who fucked my wife up there always separate separates because there's there's distance involved rate so for me. That's how it is but when I go to like my parents for example my grandparents are are there. I have cousins there. I have my brother and sister. It's a lot of people and I've always had my spouse with me and as longtime listeners know that's many any different personalities over the years a few spouses. But it's different for you right because your family is all in the same town so you have spent holidays like maybe in the morning with your family and in the afternoon with addams family and then this year because I don't know you're just a glutton for punishment your co mingling them yet usually our families are let's say about forty five minutes apart so we usually do one family at in the morning one in the afternoon or the day after we try to hit all the families and it's extra complicated because my niece goes to her dad's house which also is another split time for family. It's just a lot of different places to go. It's very overwhelming so this year we did decide to try to combine some of the families us which is equally as overwhelming and could be worse. I don't know we're going to be on that one because I really can't decide if it's going to be really really awesome. Getting all the families out of the way one time or really terrible. Let's talk a little bit about something that you and I have that. Not Everybody has we. We have spouse supports. Yes and I love that because when I'm feeling down I can communicate to Kendall my wife and I can be like. Hey keep these freaks away from for me and she runs interference for me and I do joke. You know. I'm a lot better than I used to be. You know way back when when I was really really sick even having my father walk over to me and say so how have you been. That was like a really offensive question. Like I couldn't explain why I was so angry at being asked how I was doing Wayne but I was. What advice? Do you have Jackie because you're a newlywed. You've only been married just a little bit of time and yeah you haven't. It had like one thousand nine hundred spouses like I have. What advice do you have for the single person who can't rely on somebody to run interference for them? So I was the single person for a really long time not because I was single but because I had really terrible partners Holidays together candidly. I found it partially to be a little bit easier. Because you didn't have to go to so many families you didn't have to have the same conversations over eating to eat forty five meals on the same day so I actually liked that. I think you're right. That is nice to have like a teammate. In it with your spouse but when you're single and approaching these things the best advice that I have is. It's going to be bad advice. I think I think I'm going to give bad advice. But it's going to be that if you're really really anxious about it and it's really really bringing you down. Don't go. Maybe that's it's terrible advice but I feel like I'm all about self preservation I'm all about boundaries Amal about making sure that I can sustain my day in my life and if that meant going to see my family family was going to tear me down for a couple days. I just wouldn't go Jackie. That is utterly fascinating to me because what you are saying as I know you to be like opinionated it and strong and all say what I want. You're not the boss of me but you feel really bad telling people not to go home for the holidays. This is really bad advice. This is really bad. What advice you can hear you wavering? But I know for a fact that you believe this and for what it's worth if your family is that toxic and it will put you in a bad place mentally and emotionally and it will make you sicker. You're one hundred percent rate. You should not go but you're struggling with it right. You're like Oh maybe this is bad. What advice I feel bad? You should see your mom but why well. It's not always easy. It's not as simple as just. Don't go for a lot of people. Just don't go equals well then I have a shit storm to deal with on the phone or the next time I see them and then my grandma holds a grudge against me for the next three years. Like it's not always just as easy as just don't go in live your life. I think every family is different. Every family dynamic is different and the unique players in the cast of your life story story make these decisions significantly difficult. I have side of the family that I haven't seen in almost five years and I'm fine with that like I am okay with that but if I just chose to randomly not show up to my sister's house for a holiday even if it was the best thing for me I still would struggle with it. Let's talk about that for a moment because families are complicated right. So for the purpose of this discussion. We're going to say that you love your sister and you're mad at your cousin. I'M BOB now. You don't have a cousin Bob. Which is why we picked cousin Bob Jackie? So if any member of Jackie's family is listening cousin Bob does not represent any of you very very important but but you love your sister. But YOU'RE MAD AT COUSIN BOB cousin. Bob could be your your mom your dad your grandma your grandpa but a person who has a lot of sway in the family and in general general a person that the rest of the family is protecting right. They don't want cousin Bob to feel bad but cousin Baba's toxic for you and you want to stay away from cousin Bob so much that you're willing not to spend the holidays with your sister whom you love. You love your sister as much much as you dislike cousin Bob now what do you do because you can avoid cousin Bob. And that's very reasonable but now you miss your sister. What's the middle of the road owed their Jackie? I think it's it's a two parter. The first one is calling my sister in saying. Hey you know how I feel about cousin Bob. Could you help me run interference and involve the members of your family who you like and ask them for help. We actually do have a family member who tends to corner people and we have essentially in ice signal of like save me please get me. I'm cornered and as the outside of the family. We know to go. Get that person unless we're being dicks and then we just laugh and don't go get them mm-hmm which has happened. Also but I think the other part of this is I still maintain that it's assessing how it's going to be for you. Could you meet up with your sister. Sister afterwards and see her and still preserve yourself is going to see cousin. Bob Really going to do some detrimental work to you. Maybe I'm really really selfish. But I've spent a really long time learning how to be selfish and putting myself first and if that means upsetting other people most of the time. I'm okay with that because I will find other ways to make it up to them or make it right with them or just even it out one. I liked that you said. Hey Look I'm putting myself first so that I can lead my best life and that's really really valuable right but then you follow that up with. I will find a way to make it right. I will see them that evening. I will see them. I'll go black Friday shopping with them all spend Christmas Eve not Christmas Day. All spend a couple of days of Hanukkah but not all of the days of Hanukkah. We'll get together for New Year's Day instead of New Year's here's Eve you're already starting to broker these deals out. You're not saying to your family. Nope all of you are dead to me. I'm not seeing any of you ever. You're acknowledging that there's ours is a bummer. That the best way to put it right. You're acknowledging that there's a bummer of situation here because of your feelings because of a family members feelings you're you're addressing them but what you're not doing is putting yourself in harm's way in order to keep the family happy there's a level of maturity in there right where you acknowledge alleged that the situation is in a gray area where your actions are going to hurt somebody else and you need to make amends for that but not at your own risk right right. I think there's an assumption on holidays that you will spend time with your family and your family carries that assumption. So when you don't show up or you don't engage. There is a little bit of disappointment. Maybe from some family members I think one of the most important things about self care self preservation and boundaries. That people forget is that if you're going to make decisions that have the potential to hurt other people. You can still make those decisions if they're right for you but it doesn't mean that it doesn't affect those other people you have to think about other people and and I may make the choice not to come and it may really hurt my mom's feelings so it's then on me to do my best to help her with those feelings and help her feel better while while still preserving myself. I can't say well sorry mom go fuck yourself I have to do this for me. I could but I wouldn't you know like at some point you have to realize your actions have consequences. This is even if it's the right action. It sort of reminds me of how to break up with somebody right. Ghost never show up cinematheques. No but but seriously when you wanNA break up with with somebody you can't stay in a relationship with them forever because you don't want to hurt their feelings but you also don't I want to be cruel you know you shouldn't go see people you you shouldn't just send them a text and be like last year's been great. Never contact me again. There's a police officer outside your door with a restraining drain order. There's a way that you can end the relationship and still be kind but ending the relationship. Even while kind is still going to hurt the other person. This applies to families as well. Maybe they will be hurt by what you say. But there's still a way to do it but we tend to do the thing. I'M NOT COMING BECAUSE I hate cousin. Bob and how could you you like cousin Bob. Don't you know cousin bobby is and whereas we should kind of. Keep it to the fax. I'm uncomfortable being around cousin. Bob And therefore I'm not coming to the dinner. How can we work this out? Set the boundary. Listen I have heard you out you have heard me out. There's no resolution coming in that way. What can we do over for here? I think a lot of times families devolve into finger pointing and name colleen and you pissed me off when I was in the eighth grade and even though I'm now forty three I'm mad something that I have learned over the years when it comes to family jobs other relationships is that you're allowed to do things is without explanation and that is something that I have done for a really long time. Which is I quit my job and then I go well? I quit because of this reason industries and in this reason and this is why quote. And it's not your it's kind of my fault Explain over explainer whereas you're allowed to just say I quit my job end of it. Same thing goes with your family right. You don't have have to explain everything you can say. I'm not coming this year and they can ask you why and you can say I don't really WanNa talk about it and that might upset them and you can deal with that part later and you have to pick what is right for you. And that's really what this always boils down to right. What's right for you? We'll be right back after these messages interested in learning about psychology. Oh Gee and mental health from experts in the field give listen to the psych central podcast hosted by gay powered visit psych central dot com slash. Show also subscribe a to the psych central podcast on your favorite podcast plan. Hainaut crazy fans. This is one of your host. Gabe Howard are you struggling to sleep these days. I did you know that a good night's sleep is like a magic remedy for the brain and body when we sleep well. We're more focused and relaxed and best of all sleep makes us happier earlier. And that's why we're partnering with calm the number one APP for sleep if you WANNA seize the day and sleep the night you can with the help of calm right right now not crazy listeners. Get Twenty five percent off a calm premium subscription adt com dot com slash. Not Crazy that C. A. L. M. DOT dot com slash. Not Crazy forty million. People have downloaded calm. Find out why at calm dot com slash not crazy. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling all counsellors are licensed accredited professionals. Anything you share share confidential scheduled secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel. It's needed a month of online therapy. Often cost less than a single traditional regional face to face session go to better health dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days of free therapy to see if online. Counseling is right for you. BETTER HELP DOT COM forward. What slash psych central? We're back helping you survive the holidays. I want to circle back to something you said earlier. which is about having the I signal for the family family member that kind of traps you? What I want to say is I used to be that family member in fact I might still be that family member but now now that I mentally healthy people are just like like dude stop? It's over now. I had a really hard time in social situations. I I had a lot of anxiety. I had mania which just makes me feel like king of the world at racing thoughts and I talked two thousand miles a minute and I would corner somebody and I would just get like aggressive and a six foot. Three two hundred seventy five pound man aggressively arguing a point point that frankly because of my illness is now the most important thing in the world. No cool web goes on Pie look. I don't put pie on cool. Well that's the wrong way to eat it. Why is this happening and family members would run interference to calm me down and the reason that I bring that up is because it for me I do need to have a better our understanding of annoying family members because I was one of the most annoying family members and sometimes I think that people need to take a hard look at who who they were when they were younger especially in families? Because they've known your whole life and cousin. Bob Might be toxic in our example cousin. Bob Woods toxic. But it's also possible possible. That cousin Bob is just annoying right and maybe you can tolerate some annoyance. Maybe you can take a deep breath and let cousin Bob nor you on the holidays. The important point here who is is. I don't want to say like if you're having an uncomfortable time with the holidays. Just don't show up everywhere. 'cause I kinda feel like maybe that's that's the takeaway of the first couple minutes is just. Don't go sometimes. That is not an option option. Sometimes you feel obligated to go and you must go and you have to deal with these family members. You have cousin Bob who's annoying. You have Gabe who is cornering you and yelling got you so I think we should talk about ways to cope with that. And part of that is a little bit of avoidance. When you're there can go downstairs? Can you go upstairs. Can you be in a different room. Can you just avoid as best as possible. And if not can you talk to that person and put up a boundary. Even while you're talking you know like don't be willing go into maybe personal things. Don't give them on. Don't engage as much as maybe you normally would with a different family member. Unfortunately sometimes the right answer is to adjust your behaviors ears to deal with other people again. If that's the right outcome for you that provides the right ending than I am all in favor of doing that. There's this phrase that I live by when I travel and it's when in Rome I didn't invent it it. It's something that my ex wife said to me. She's like when in Rome when in Rome and it just means that when you're in Chicago have Chicago pizza when you're in New York Work Have New York Pizza. Don't try to find New York Pizza in Chicago when in Rome. Do the things the Romans do. I think that there is really good advice for families here that sometimes. Maybe it isn't what you prefer. Maybe it's not what you like but hey when in Rome here in two thousand nineteen were really good at acknowledging other cultures and sometimes I feel like wow we would never tell another culture to act differently. Because we'd see the offense in it we'd never tried to tell another culture to give up their customs or there once or their ideas because we don't like them because we'd recognize how offensive that was but then we show up at our family's family's house and we're like hey I don't like this anymore and I want all of you to change. These are the customs and the culture of your family for better for worse and sometimes it makes sense. I think. Hey I'm in my mom and dad's house so I'm going to honor their customs because when in Rome you don't have to agree to them. You don't have to like them. You just you have to go with the flow and focus on the things that you have in common that that's really like the last bit of this right. I think that so many families they seek each other out to try to change them. The holidays are not the day to get cousin Bob to realize that his voting record is spotty were to change somebody's religion or to make somebody understand that the ending of lost really was terrible even though they kind of liked it. But it's not the goal. Find the thing that you have in common and spend on that and if you're hosting one of these events make a rule no politics no religion and leave cousin Jesse alone we know. She's a Vegan. But it's fine. It's fine. We made a a Vegan meal. Don't tell her that Turkey's delicious. That's a jerk thing to jerk thing even though she's weird well I think what you're trying to say here is pick the path of least assistance. Whatever that may be you know if that's not going that's avoiding conversation if that is changing maybe how you interact with your family members? I have a massive family. I have thirteen cousins on one side. Eleven cousins on the other side. There are so many of us and I am an introvert so when I get to those family only gatherings I am a version of myself and I know that I've had actually partners who show up. Call me out on that and say Kinda Act different around your family and part of it is because I am incredibly credibly overwhelmed at the amount of people in the room even though I've known them my whole life but also is because so many different personalities people who think the way I do people who don't so I give them a version the one that's going to be agreeable the one that's not going to cause conflict and the one that I'm going to leave so feeling good like I didn't just drain myself to have Turkey with twenty other people and Jackie. I want to see that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So many people say well. I'm being fake. No you're not. I don't think that's being fake. It it all being polite to people standing on common ground and avoiding conflict. I don't think that's fake. I think these are good qualities to be and I think that we need to commend ourselves for doing that. It's like not calling somebody's baby ugly even though they're babies ugly that's not being fake. That's being polite and I think that's a good good quality. I've seen a lot of ugly baby. I think most babies are ugly and I think if you have a family that is an ugly baby you just show up and you give them like. Oh that's a cute baby to the whole family the whole time. What else are you going to do? You can't walk around telling cousin Bob that he's a bit and you can't tell your GRANDPA. He's a racist. And you see you know what I mean like. You can't call people out and all these things you could but wow what a miserable holiday that's GonNa be and it's important to point out that it doesn't work now. I would be all for doing that. If all of a sudden all these people would immediately change and become better people they don't they dig in their heels. The whole family becomes uncomfortable. And they're less likely to listen into you. If you really want to address something with a family member. The holidays are not the time. Invite them for coffee a week later right. If that fixed families all families families would be fine because everybody points out the shit they hate about each other on the holidays and it just ruins the holiday for me. The bottom line is the holidays are a version version of miserable for everybody care if you love all the holidays. It's the driving that's miserable. Maybe it's the snow right. The time of year has a level of misery around it. And if you're living with a mental illness it's amplified right. The mental illness takes hold of the misery. It just makes it bigger so at the end of the day. You have to figure figure out what's GonNa keep you going. And if that means not going to family thing giving them a version of yourself or going and just being quiet in the corner I still still feel like that's what you gotta do. Put Yourself I at the end of the day. Always put yourself i. That's what I say may sound selfish but I have to be alive. I have to be a functioning contributing human being into the people in my life and sometimes I have to be selfish in order to do that. I cannot agree more Jackie. Let's do a quick speed round of all the stuff that we missed. I'M GONNA yell out a tip. Yep and then you yell out a tip and then all yell out of tip and then you yell out of tip until we exhaust ourselves and then we'll end the show deal done all right. I truly believe that it's best not to be alone on the holidays. I like to be around other people. But maybe your family isn't the safest find a friend group to hang out with find a church group or a community group to join or at the very least go down to the local diner and hang out and talk to the other orphans on the holidays. I think it's a really good idea. And it is a way to be around people without having having to go to family members who you may find toxic. I agree I think that being alone on holidays can cause more harm than going to a annoying family. Member's house but for me me the tip that I have is to look at the event. Look at the people who are going to be there and assess the best way to tackle it. What is your plan of attack? And what's your exit strategy right. You coincidentally have another party to leave to in an hour or do you gotta go volunteer. I set up this thing months ago. Like what is the way you're gonNA leave leave in case it's going poorly planning on when you're going to arrive and when you're going to leave at the very least it gives you something to look forward to right. It makes the amount of time small and finite the next thing I have is find another holiday orphan. There is somebody else one of your friends one of your coworkers. One of your pals one of the people that you randomly run into when you're getting your coffee coffee find out if they're alone on the holidays and invite them with you. It accomplishes helping you buffer your friends and family and it's very meaningful to them as well. I I think the last one I've got is if you are anxious like me are fretting about interacting with your family members. Find a job when you get there do you need to carve the Turkey do you. Maybe need to set. The table gives their cleanup. Can you help the cook. Is there anything you can do. That gives you purpose but doesn't leave you open to chat with everybody in that room. The last advice that I have for everybody is be optimistic. Be Open minded. Be Open to the idea that the holidays will be fun. Be Open to the idea that you will find something that you like and when you go in look for something that you like and maybe the only thing is that you like the food. Maybe the only the thing is that. The House is decorated beautifully. Maybe the only thing is out of thirteen cousins. You like one of them that you only get to see once a year but take that take that goodness goodness and focus on that. If you are looking for negatively on the holidays you're absolutely going to find it but the same is true for positively find that positive the thing take that success put in your pocket and grow up from there and when you get home that night pull out the Ben and Jerry's that you bought three days ago sit in front of the TV and say hey. I survived the holidays. Things are turning into this week's not crazy everybody we're wishing you a happy holiday season and if you're trying to avoid your family family you in one of these awful parties we just talked about without your phone in rank us on your favorite podcast player. Subscribe sheriff's email us and cheer US may be with one of your family members. I happy holidays. Everyone and I hope the party is not as awful as Jackie thinks it is. We'll see everybody next week and you've been listening to not crazy from psych central for free mental health resources and online support groups visit Psych Central Dot Com non crazies official website is psych central dot com slash. Not Crazy crazy to work with gave go to gain power dot com to work the. Jackie go to Jackie Zimmerman Dot. Co Not crazy travels. Well given even Jackie record an episode live at your next event. Email show at psych central dot com for details Jackie say what you WANNA say. Just let the words fall out. Thank you think I just I just WanNa see you be brief out. God Surrey what you want to say okay all right.

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