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Effectively Wild Episode 1463: The Hall of Fames 2020 Hindsight

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:24:13 hr | 1 year ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1463: The Hall of Fames 2020 Hindsight

"Yeah Hello and welcome to episode fourteen sixty three effectively wild fan graphs baseball podcast brought to you by our Patriot supporters I met rally Dan Graphs and I enjoined as always by Ben. Lemberg of the ringer. Ben How're you. I am doing alright. Happy Thanksgiving happy Thanksgiving happy Thanksgiving. Everyone listening thing. We are prerecording so we are in authentically wishing each other happy Thanksgiving a few days before thanksgiving. I guess it's not an authentic authentically wishing you a happy Thanksgiving even just prior to Thanksgiving. I still hope you have a good time. Thank you you too. So because we'll be doing stuff and traveling and seeing family and a lot of view will be also and we'll have travel and will need things to plug into your ears or put on the car stereo. We are doing this a little bit early and most of the episode will be a conversation with fan graphs. Jay Jaffe about the hall of fame. We like to talk to j just about every year because he is constantly breaking down hall of fame stuff around around this time of year. So we'll get into that and unfortunately you had some urgent managing editor Business Cup before that conversation. So it's just Nj but before we bring him on one thing I wanted to bring up so we're hoping to have jeff on at some point this off-season subject act two approval. He get the go ahead to do that but hoping he will and one thing that I was thinking maybe we could do with him was talk about this year's hall of fame artefacts. It affects the things that were saved from the twenty thousand nine season and sent to the hall of fame because very memorably. I went over last year's Hall of Fame Artifacts with Jeff F- on I think the first episode of this year episode thirteen sixteen on January second. And we just went line by line on a list of things that were sent went to the hall of fame and Jeff was incredulous about most of them particularly in Eduardo Nunez Bat that was sent to the hall of fame presumably. Probably because the red sox won the world series so they just took a bet that Edward Nunez had swung at some point and Jeff thought that was just ridiculous but even if we do have jeff if on it is probably safer for us to steer away from talking about active players. I don't know if it could be construed as tampering if Jeff were a to pass judgment on the hall of fame worthiness of an artifact that was sent to the hall but just to be safe not going to do that with Jeff but the list is is out. There is a list of things that were saved from the season sent to the Holland. I've looked at over and frankly it's not that bad there aren't that many egregious is choices. Choices that just make you wonder why they thought that thing was worth preserving at cooperstown but because this is a hall of fame centric episode. I thought it might make sense. Wants to run these by you. See think so. There's a longer list of regular season artifacts in a shorter list of postseason artifacts. So the things that we're saved from the nationals from the world series that I think have already maybe been displayed at the hall or or soon will be in an artifact about that series of this post-season season we've got a Martinez Hoodie. which I don't know about a huge draw? Probably but if it was the hoodie where he was swearing in that epoch Tantrum after the interference play then Maybe if it's got like spill on it from when he yelled at the Empire's I could see I don't I don't think he was wearing a Hoodie. Because weren't they a weren't they in Houston for that. Oh okay all career that took place so it's probably a non but maybe Buddha. Maybe it's another another Ki Ki Moment. Maybe it's a moment moment where he called for an intentional walk. Yes you're right. He probably made some momentous decision while he was not so. Hey kids. There's the Hoodie the Hugh Martinez was wearing. Not The best. But then there's some other good stuff here. Stephen Strasburg Game Six Jersey. That's pretty good. How Kendrick game seven home run ball? I I mean that's if you had to choose one artifact from that series it probably would be that that's one of the biggest tits in baseball history and it's even cooler because it's gotten to the hall of fame. Pr Person tweeted a picture of it and it has like a little stripe of yellow on it from where it hit the foul which is even better. I mean it tells a story I mean that is the best possible artifact and then you've got Max Scherzer game seven cap which is pretty good just the whole story of mixtures Max Scherzer being out there at all in that game. You've got the one Soto game. One home run ball. All right. You've got Anthony Rangoon's bat. I don't know if if he was using that same bat the whole series but obviously he had some big hits then. You've got Kurtz Zucchini spikes which you know. I don't know he was on the team team. And the spikes appeared in that series. So yeah I guess I mean he had he had a couple of I don't know important blacks flex some both sure hit. Some home runs participated. Yeah did he he. He did something good. He throughout I distinctly remember him throwing out Jose Altuva right at third base. I think that was Kurt. Suzuki and I don't I don't know he did have hits or or a fit. He entered that series. I think over the postseason but then he did ultimately that leave the two had given came to ask. So yes you're you're right an eighteen in WRC plus for the postseason does not suggest that he went on a chair. And then Fernando Rodney's glove which again if we're talking about a big contributions to the series it's not really up there but the fact that Fernando Rodney in that series at all and it wasn't that like the the longest a drought between world series appearances for a player or something like that. It was somewhat historic in nature for him to be at that age in that series and having not pitched in the world series in a long time. It's fine whatever for new Rodney School. We like him. Yeah Oh and they also saved one of Harare pyre has baby sharks gotta keep it baby shark essential. So that's the world series stuff that they saved a man. There's a bunch of regular season stuff they saved which some of it definitely historic significance. And it's Kinda cool to look back at the list because he call some of the historic firsts. That happened this year. Even if it wasn't like a statistical milestone or something just you know there were some cool things that happened in baseball this year amidst all not so cool stuff so for example like a ball used during the march twentieth game in Tokyo between the as and the mariners that was it was a fun event that that happened and then there some in that category which will get to. But you know then you go from that to the spikes worn by the twins winds. WERE HE POLANCO on April fifth when he hit for the cycle against the phillies. Yeah I don't know about I don't know about that. I I assume you said April fifth. Yes so I assume that. That was the first cycle of the season. Probably what merits Uh what merits that I guess. Yeah it's not the only cycle thing preserved because Kevin Bijou's gloves. His batting gloves when hit for the cycle in September are also there which he is Half of the second father son duo to hit for a major literally cycle because Creek bizarro. Hit for the cycle and I think it was what it was like Der Award and Gary Word. I think maybe both hit true the cycle and so they weren't even the first father-son duo to both hit for the cycle. But well whenever I if it's better than the typical cycle cycles so the cycle in general like I didn't even remember that or he hit for the cycle so that's news to be. I guess us it's not like that's a memory that stands out about the twenty nineteen season that my trip to the hall would feel incomplete if there were not something something marketing the historic occasion of people because cycle anyway. That's there then. There is the first pitch ball from the angels April Tenth Game Against The brewers when Albert Halls became the tenth player in history to appear in one thousand games for two different. MLB teams okay. Hey See it's the first pitch Baldo it's like it's not even I mean our pool halls is a leadoff hitter so it's not even like a a pitch that he saw like if you had like it's I mean temp player in history to appear on one thousand games for two different teams. I guess it's a cool accomplishment. It's the tenth tenth but probably all tender pretty good. I guess but if you're gonNA save something like a Gimme his glove from that game. Yeah at least give me like the first pitch he saw in that game not just like just include which yeah or. His Bat shirt includes Bat. That'd be happy a him sing. I think that yes his. Yeah or the first base bag that he was standing on if he was even playing first base that day. So yeah I mean borderline even to include something about two holes in the one thousand game for two teams thing but if you're gonNA put something like make it a whole specific give me a cap or something at least especially because you know he had some some home. Run moments that were specially meaningful this year. Include I mean I know that you can't get those balls back all the time and sometimes players don't WanNa give them up even when they are able to bribe their way back to them right but I bet he's La Eh. This capture were that kept take. Yeah anyway then. We've got a ball used during the April thirteenth game in Monterrey Mexico between the reds and the cardinals just in that same genre of game played in unusual place. So save something from that game. That's fine I don't mind that a jersey worn by the Yankee Safia on April thirtieth during the game against the Arizona diamondbacks where he struck out his three thousand. Th career batter along with a ball thrown base breath yet to record his three thousand third career strikeouts on May sixth so on the one hand. I think that the those as you know I'm I'm sympathetic to wanting to have. CC related things in hall on the other hand you even just describing her say yes he said hard set hard our time even saying that makes me think it's not good all I made A. I made a very bad cycle joke related to whore hip Longo on what was it. I don't know if this is to cruiser effectively wild dosage. I screen shotted breaking news. First Cycle of twenty nineteen belongs to Jorges Polanco Okoh and I responded now all the other cycles will sink to his joke about ladies and straighten. tweet in the hoffy others. That tweet yeah so a lot of little kids asking questions. Parents might not be ready to you. So CICI's like the Jersey when he got that is three thousand that's fine I don't know about the three thousand and Third Reich out. I don't know about that. I mean it wasn't his last strikeout. It wasn't the three thousand th strikeout. It's just did that strike out. Push him pass some important historical figure right that make him the go. It doesn't even make him. The most strike outed nece. That's not word you know what I'm trying to say that it does that represent a milestone of some sort. It seems like he must if they're if they're taking remind giving them. I don't know they took the cycle. Balso took a lot of things. So let's it. Is that something so. Cc Now ranks sixteenth all time with three thousand ninety three. That's pretty good and yet three thousand three. That's nothing yeah that's That is nothing. There's there's no in between Jim Bunning at twenty eight fifty five and Justin verlander. Who Right now is at three thousand six or or or John smoltz of three thousand eighty four so now three thousand three? That's nothing I don't know if that was like his last strike out of the game where he went over three thousand or something Eh. If no that's that's not near the top of the list of things that I would save even related to three thousand strikeouts I suppose we have to be somewhat sympathetic doc to the halls plight here. I mean. We don't have to be but it's it's Thanksgiving so we can. We can be generous. which is that? There's like a you know there's a sweet spot what they want to have artifacts of historical significance right but those are also hard to to the procure. I would think you know. When they're the ones that go into the stands or what have you? People are in sit there and say I'll keep this home run ball or if it's pitcher they might say no Is especially want this one because it marks an important milestone in my career. Won't you let me have it. And so I guess we need to have some amount of sympathy to the fact that like maybe the one they could get was his three thousand third. That's just really hard to say. I know man who say they asked him three thousand six. That's that's pretty special to me. I'm I'm going to put that in my home. And then they said well about three thousand one. Now that's pretty close to three thousand three thousand two. Oh Gee I've really would like it to help you out. But that's only two away from three thousand and then they said all right three thousand three and he said okay. I guess I can part with that. Yeah but see see was like you know what okay so. That's really hard to say. I'd rather not ever point to that ball in my home. And say what what strikeout it symbolizes so you take it on your way all right. The spikes warned born by the mets Noah syndergaard on May second when he pitched a shutout against the reds and hit a home run to account for the game. Sold me run true win. There isn't a guard. They saved the spikes from the true. Would I think that as a nod to effectively wild and the wonderful conversation this moment generated between you and Sam that they should absolutely put it in but they should at a little a little audio button and they just say your conversation about it and only if they do that in my support of otherwise I think they're missing important context and and it's just another good outing from now. That's what I think about that. All right the athletics cap worn by Mike. Fires and a Gameboy from fires as no hitter against the reds on May seventh sure. Yeah find as whatever no hitter at fires. It was the second no hitter rate which is somewhat unusual. So okay yeah this is. I guess the first one came right after that trade from Milwaukee all right the funny thing about that is that of all the things that Mike Fires has has done in this major league season or not long after it was argued that the no hitter is the least memorable thing that he has contributed to the broader. I'll say horse here. Yeah Save the facial hair save shave his on the record quotes about the astros fires. You know there's an argument to be made that he's had some of the most meaningful impact to the course of baseball. History emerge out of this season of any player in the League which is hilarious for a guy who had that facial hair all right the bat and gloves worn by the Rangers. Joey Gallo on May eighth when he became the third fastest player in history to reach the one hundred home run mark. Yeah now. So here's here's my question that I have about those sorts of mile aknowledging those sorts of milestones in display. which is how often do they switch them out because after a while you're like the he's the fifteenth fastest player to do a thing right? Yeah it might just be like for a month or two after the season or something which is fine. You know pretty low bar. I guess there you could say it's just Even if this is the best we could get. It's not up to our standards. It's not hall of fame worthy. You know batting gloves. Third Fastest player to reach the hunter at home run. Mark doesn't do much for me. I like Joey Gallo but but yeah I mean if it's just temporary thing but what does it tell a story about the two thousand eighteen season not particularly. Yeah so all right. The bluejays cap worn by Edwin Jackson may fifteenth when he became the first player to appear for fourteen different big league teams absolutely. Yes that's a first ballot. Put it in there. You go back and get all the other. Yeah they got a cap an actual. I mean like you you could. It could be from any day. It doesn't have to me from a specific day. Can they go back and get one from every orchestra played in. I wonder capital. Yeah that'd be nice. Yeah all right. The First Pitch Ball from June thirteenth game between the Tigers and royals in Omaha marking the first regular season. MLB game played in Nebraska. It's one of those Playing somewhere we haven't played before that's sure but it's okay I guess but it's Nebraska change currency and. It's it's the tigers and the royals you said Yup all right. It's a very small corner. My guess is my takeaway didn't need a passport to go there. It's just Nebraska. The spikes worn by the Yankees handke's Aaron Hicks on June twenty-ninth when he hit the first home run in a regular season. MLB game on European soil and also in that same category there is the used by the Yankees detailing mayhew on June twenty-ninth when he recorded the first hit in a regular season game on European soil so same genre but you have to change currencies. Honestly I think it would be more impressive for them to collect all of the balls bats. That didn't go for home. Runs or silicates confident. Because as I recall those games were quite high scoring. Yes definitely that first first one. Yeah so and also in that same category that Jersey worn by the red SOx's Christian Vasquez when he caught the first pitches of the Yankees versus Red Sex game in Washington on June twenty-ninth. Oh and also hopefully from the to London series game. You just do that. Couldn't that be the because what. You're what you're marking working is. The is the location. The people who are involved in the players involved in these specific actions are sort of incidental. What's interesting is the place? And the the strongest and most obvious marker of the place is home plate. Yup Yeah that makes sense. I don't know take like an air sample or something to say. There's some air from that game I don't know then we've got the bet used futures game. MVP and Rangers prospect. Sam huff on July the seventh so I guess game. Mvp Sam Huff okay. The cap worn by all star Game Most Valuable Player. Shane Bieber Uber on July ninth. You know I guess the same genre. They're the caps worn by angels pitchers Taylor Cole and Felix pain yet. During during their combined no hitter on July twelfth along with a ball from that game thrown by pain Ya and autographed by Coal Pena and Catcher Dustin Garneau and eight Jersey worn by the Angels Inter any for that game when the Angels All wore jerseys honoring the late tyler skaggs. Oh Yeah Yeah. That's an pets. Yes okay the spikes worn by Tony. Thomas of the southern Maryland Blue Crabs of the Atlantic League on July thirteenth when he became the first player to steal first first-base quote unquote under the new rules. Being tested yeah yeah. I'm I'm in favor of that man. I wonder what the commentary surrounding that looks like. Yeah there's also got the earpiece used by home plate Umpire Fred Days. There's in the Atlantic game between the new Britain bees and long island ducks on July twenty twenty-fifth the first regular season game that made use of the Automated Ball Strike System in the Atlantic League. So same genre that Sir. That's fine high. Wonder if it's like a waxy your piece said L.. They cleaned it off verster that they keep the earwax as a historic. The NETTO. I don't know but either way that seems deserving I think I guess probably probably right when you see artifacts of long ago battles in a museum sometimes their blood spattered and raise your the orioles cap up worn by Stevie Wilkerson on July twenty fifth when he became the first position player to earn a save since the rule was introduced in nineteen sixty nine along with the final bow from that game Sure Yeah I guess I have a hard time marketing fun. Facts like that for stat that we have just collectively decided we don't care about. Yeah so like why are we. Why are we I mean I? I appreciate the novelty of it coming from position player. But I don't care about saves so yeah yeah yeah barely a game used ball signed by the forecasters hurlers Aaron Sanchez Will Harris Job. Eugenie rainy and Krista Venzke who combined to pitch a no hitter against the mariners on August third along with a cap worn by such as in the game. Where was the game played? God I don't recall you don't have to look. People can just assume that I was going to make Sassy sign stealing broke out. Make a joke about signs in stealing. Yeah it's more accomplished men on the road. Yeah I mean their pictures so I I don't know it doesn't have anything to do with it. Bloomberg poorly constructed will yeah. That's the other thing it's like. You're early anyhow. Yeah constructive joke. Ben Wasn't my best. Well I mean no hitters against the mariners first of all. I don't know if that's even historic anymore and a combined no hitters just always that loses some of the luster Mr of no hitter and it's not like the first combined no hitter. It's not even the only combined no hitter in this season that they're saving stuff from so and it's not it's certainly certainly as you as you've noted is not the only no hitter the mariners suffered they were sort of on a no hitter tear for a moment there. Yeah that's two new for me. All right. The Bat used by the reds or Status Aquino on August tenth when he hit three home runs in his tenth bigly game and that was in the midst of that lake well. He's hit more homers in his first big league games than anyone else streak. Yeah I'm okay with with that because I think it tells a story not only about hen. Well maybe it doesn't tell story about twenty nineteen because just hits a bunch of home runs. I tell us I mean. I don't know if he'll turn out to be a very good player or not or if he'll just be someone we look back on and say well. This was the product of the ultra juiced. I reduced drag ball so I don't hate it I hate it. I don't love it but I don't know all right. A ball thrown by the Astros has justin verlander during his no hitter third of his career against the Blue Jays on September first. So it's ver- lander but it's his third no hitter and they were saving multiple Astra's no hitters artifacts here. I'd rather have this one. I'd rather take this one than the combined lines especially since it came in cy young year rights sort of speaks to the overall quality of the season that he had so. I'm I'm okay with it. I'm I'm shaky on no hitter balls especially for guys who've thrown them previously I am for I mean like clearly if there were a the perfect game ball we would want one of those in on just because of the relative rarity but of all the no hitter balls. I suppose one that belongs to Guy Who go on to win the CY young is probably defensible. All right a few more here. We've got the bat used by the Orioles Jonathan. VR On September eleventh when he hit the sixty one hundred and sixth homerun of the MLB season a new record. I would argue that. This is perhaps the most important if we've we are if we are judging the worthiness of these objects by the degree to which they tell the story of the season. I would argue that. This might be the most important Horton one of all. Yeah unless they can get like. I don't know E. Mail printouts from the Astros or some other nonsense but that it didn't even take place in this sure so Well the ones we know about orange should say so. I would argue that. This might be the most important one because I can't think of anything that we talked about more this season than the ball yet that was the most emblematic thing and and I like that. It's Jonathan Vr. To like. It's not some take. What type of hitter? Who hit more home runs this year because of the Paul had? VR Hit twenty four months. Yeah it is it is good had both for the significance of the object absent the context of the player and then when you add in the context of the player to that moment just is pretty perfect. Yeah all right that that may be the best one. This may be the worst one. I don't know this that the helmet used by the royals widmaier field throughout the two thousand eighteen season when he became the second right Hindi better in history to lead the majors in hits for two straight seasons so absolutely terrible. This that is offensive -fensive yeah I mean apologies. Commit like you had a nice year guest not as good as the previous one but like like salmon. I talked about how he led the League in hits on a previous episode. That's Nice but second right handed batter to lead the majors in hits for two straight seasons. Terrible no get out of here. All right a fan giveaway transistor radio commemorating two thousand Ford C Frick Award winner. Dr Marty Brennaman last game in the booth with the Cincinnati reds. This is the sort of one that might my initial impulses to say but uh I think upon brief further reflection that I would be inclined to include it because this is the sort of thing that matters a great deal to the people all in that specific market and baseball is nothing if not a local game primarily and I think that while that means it is sometimes subject to A Myopia is also subject to you celebrating small moments to meet a great deal tests. That other people don't know about this those so I think this tells the story not only of twenty nine team but evolved baseball now that yeah pretty good for. They should've saved like the last time. Marty Brennaman said that Joey Votto doesn't swing the bat enough or if he walks too much or something but yeah times are local heroes. Do disappoint us about used by the White Sox Tim Anderson during the two thousand nine hundred season when he led an ob with three thirty five batting average. Yeah share. Yeah that's fine. It's a batting title. It's batting average but it was a historically directly notable batting title in that. I think he did he I think he walked the least of any batting title at the lowest. Ob P or or something like that. Yeah Yeah so okay. And he had a historically significant season in some ways of this. You know if you're going to talk about the twenty thousand nine season. You should probably mentioned Tim Anderson Anderson somewhere in there and the last one jersey worn by the Rangers. Elvis Andrus on September twenty ninth in the last game played at Globe Life Park. Sure sure I think it only matters if they have it next to a Jersey from the first game played at Globe Life Park so that you could very clearly see that so little time had passed between those two events events. Because you'd look at that. I say that looks close to same sort of uniform. They would wear today. And then maybe you could have A. You can have a picture of a baby born one day and that same baby now a grown person on the last day and be like hey look at how these still or young people do that. Yeah okay well select SAS in my museums learning about this. Well that's the and I think it's probably a better than last year's I remember there being even more head scratchers last year or maybe it was just jeff being more of a head-scratching person I I don't know but I am sympathetic to the conundrum of well of museums. Generally I suppose the hall of fame in particular because you know baseball -aseball generates so many bits of information there so many potential things that matter and I imagine that your impulse would be to be overly acquisitive so as to not look back ten years later and say oh man. I really wish we had that thing. That thing ended up meaning so much and we don't have with field battery now. It's an goodwill in in Kansas City. And we'll never find it again right so I I am sympathetic to how they have the impulse to acquire and I am curious what their procedure is for calling because I imagine they have to have one. Maybe we should. We should find a hall person to ask this question too because at at some point you're like you know it's not so dissimilar from your own basement or attic or or front storage closet. I'm trying to pick a thing that might be relatable to you you ban as a person who has neither a basement or an attic. At some point you have to be like. Oh Gosh I got to Maya too much stuff in here to get rid of some of the stuff. I haven't used that broken coffeemaker offi maker only four years. Why do we still have it right? all right. Well we've gone through that exercise again and now we can take a brief break and I will be back with Jay Chaffee so you and I will speak again next week. That sounds good. I'm very glad that we're not going to have to inadvertently Inspire Jeff to commit baseball ball crimes. I know I would not want to to get him fired unless that meant he could podcast. But then we'd have to have a four person rotation and that I don't no we could never possibly make that work. I'm toiling a mustache. All right talk to you. I saw uh-huh uh-huh. Jj has been breaking hall of fame ballot every year at various outfits else expecting back to two thousand four when he started doing it for baseball prospectus. That is fifteen years ago. Which means that his health in about breakdowns would have exhausted their own hall of fame eligibility if we were still working with the fifteen year ballot he has resumed his annual labor and he is turning out the player profiles for fame graphs graphs of course this year? And we like to have him on every year if we can to get the latest on the returning candidates and the new candidates and how the ballot looks overall so oh he's just a few players into this year's ballot breakdown and hopefully is not too tired of talking hall of fame yet. Jay How are you. Hey I'm good Ben. Thanks good to be here. Yes so I guess the big picture and you've been breaking down both the new ballot the returning players just. BWI ballot candidates as well as what are we calling the Veterans Committee. Now the modern this is the modern baseball. Eric Committee Ballard Baseball and I will also need to correct you on one thing. I started doing ballot Alad analysis in two thousand two thousand two ballot. If he told the infielder it was too too. Well read posts there too. Well read series there that were what led to the invitation from BP to To start doing this stuff there So that's that's that's how this all began was if utility infielder seventy seven so I guess is my eighteenth year old enough to be old enough to be drafted and that led to jaws and that led to it could percents casebook and every year. It adds some new wrinkle so you are eligible to vote next year and got into the w a year after you so I'm two years away from my first ballot and if I were looking at the ballot as voter this time around which. I'm not quite yet but I think this might be the first time in a while that I might not have ten names checked off on my ballot so we seem to be finally getting past that giant backlog that built up in the PD candidate did it era. Yeah that's I. I did buy annual five year outlook peace offer fan graphs last January twenty eighth and I called closing the floodgates The next five years of Bwi Hall of fame elections. And you know the showed that Really I think that you know the the the boom times were over. We've seen twenty twenty candidates Elected by the writers over the past six years The largest swell of candidates in in the institution's history and I believe it's two do of the four times that we've seen four handed. Its elected in a single slate but yeah we've thinned out the herd there are still some holdovers that are that are that are on the ballot that have been benign languishing for too long. But they're going to get more scarce for for the next few years I think it's not not necessarily just a a commentary on on on the quality of the players so much as we've just had kind of an embarrassment of riches over the last few years and you're right it's not necessarily going to be able to go to ten in the same way. Eight I think that most voters have expected to the majority of voters and a lot of years Over the past half decade have expected to although that kind of leaves a little bit more room I have Personal preference and desire to keep discussing some of these guys rather than consigning them to The one and done on category. Yeah so the new classes kind of weak. There's Derek jeter who's issue in that then the best of the rest is really bobby. Abreu probably who I I love Bobby Abreu and I'm probably in the demographic of voter. Who would be most likely to vote for Bobby Bro? And even so. I'm not sure that I would bring myself to vote for Bob Radio so I assume he's going to be one and done or at least you know that maybe get over the threshold but won't make any serious run at it. And I guess that means that the big question about this year's fresh faces are wilt jeeter be unanimous which is sort of silly question because who cares you no who every deserving player probably deserves to be unanimous. If it's a not a year where you have more qualified candidates than spaces and it's just a matter of well. Rivera was unanimous last year. And so does that mean that finally voters who would refuse to vote for any first time candidate because there there is no history of candidates getting unanimously will now not be able to say that and so won't make that case. Yeah it's a bray was definitely at the top of the list among the rest of them I think he's he's below the jaws line in terms of being the standard at the position which is the highest of any position because of the The the top heaviness of having five guys with one hundred war Ruth Aaron Musil off and Frank Robinson kind of skewing. The the ratings of bit but he's above fifty jaws which is really about the threshold. Where where you know? I think it's perfectly reasonable to talk about it to understand that a guy may not be You know exactly exactly an above average candidate but his really hardly you know a definitively below average candidate I believe he's above the median At the position for for example we've got twenty six famers. They're on I'm trying to remember. Exactly how many he's ahead of but is about at the halfway point. He is sandwiched between Dave Winfield. Vlad Guerrero Vlad obviously just elected a couple years ago very comparable career and peak numbers of latte slightly ahead on both so but much less much less well rewarded in his career. Only two time all star Believe it saw one gold glove. We certainly saw a lot of his defensive shortcomings shortcomings when he played here with the Yankees. He got pretty lousy late at his career But you know he was an on base machine for all of his career and Outstanding ending power speed combination that I think was really under recognized not uncommon not He's got some things in common in that regard with Ah Dwight Evans on the news. On the the modern baseball ballot Evans was only three time. All Star skill sets Evans was outstanding defender. Who couldn't really Peres best defensive the seasons with his best offensive season with great frequency? But you know just guys who have a high. On base percentages I think traditionally been very underappreciated in terms of how that that has an impact on their total value. And both of those guys fit that bill and it's hardly the only dimension of their game. Yeah so we've already seen one in perspective. Voters say that he will be voting for only Derek jeter. So as it gets too I believe that too. You're now that we have to on the same day. I okay not too sullied cheaters in touch with the any lessons. Yeah so every that is obviously very very silly but I wonder whether that speaks to just the esteem the jitters holden or whether he has given back any of that reputation because is he has not had such a popular successful stint as marlins owner thus far or or. I don't know the Players Tribune. or or what whether his reputation reputation has soured at all or whether just the continued acknowledgement of advanced defensive. Stats that painting in a more negative light. Not In A. He shouldn't be in the hall of fame light but just he's not an inner circle hall of fame guy necessarily. If you count the defense certainly deserving one so would you wager that it will be elected unanimously and follow Rivera. I- that's a good question. I'd give it a lot on pack there so you know. I think because of the success that he had and because of the team for which he had. It is a polarizing player. People feel people feel extreme extreme in one direction or another about him you know he was the centerpiece of five-time champion. He is in the top ten all time hits he was what like fourteen time. all-star something like that you know he was very very good hitter for for the position he was also what we knows. kind of a lousy defender perhaps historically Berkeley so and kind of I think because he was such a face of the game type guy I think he was. He was maybe a bit overexposed Thanks thanks to the three tier playoff format I think you know. A certain segment of fans got rightly sick of jeeter. I think though you distinguish between what what the the the we by standards to this process feel which includes also you know maybe some justifiable anger towards his tenure with the Marlins so far. You're you know maybe some of the some of the persona stuff in general versus what the average medium member feels towards him and I think those are two different things and I think from a voter standpoint. I don't see that he did anything that would justify leaving him off even the first ballot. Now you know this is this is a guy who got three thousand thousand hits you guys will get three thousand voted in first ballot almost invariably less they have A PD allegation attached to their name. and He. Doesn't you know it. Just because as Willie mays and Hank Aaron didn't get unanimous doesn't mean that that dumped tradition has to carry forward. We saw it end last year. Justifiably taken out behind the barn and and give it a good whack and I think you know I I would much rather see whether it's Derek cheater or Each row Suzuki the or whomever just stopped the nitpicking. And just you know these guys to all deserve one hundred percent. I mean Greg. Greg Maddux deserved one. Hundred percent a lot of these guys did and Chipper Jones deserves one hundred percent and there was a time when I when I put down in print that I thought chipper would be the first just because because at that point it appeared that You know the the will of the BB W. A. Electorate was to publish all ballots. That transparency was probably going to lead to a unanimous decision. Even before Mariano Rivera came along. But I think it's if they couldn't go unanimous for Ken Griffey Junior. Maybe it's maybe it's unreasonable to expect that they're going to go unanimous for for for Derrick jeeter but. I don't think that anybody who doesn't choose him is going to reveal L. himself and it's definitely a him so I I can i. I don't say that refer to the fact that they're the electorate is is one hundred percent. It's not But but anybody who does is almost invariably going to be somebody WHO's grandstand. You know. A grandstanding man. Just as just as much. Grandstanding as somebody who only choose chose jeter on his ballot. Yeah and you wrote. Rivera benefited from a perfect storm of voter accountability. Transparency Consensus on his status as the best ever within his niche and universal respect throughout the industry and maybe cheater has some of that universal missile respect that I mean I guess Rivera's you've got to spell it with a two though yes Rivera's reputation was probably more spotless a year ago before. Yeah Yeah White House visit and the trump comments but yes as a player and as a competitor is certainly he had a great reputation still does and and jeeter did too and I think people people look at him as like. He's the clean player in that era of tainted layers. Of course we don't know who was doing what he's never been connected to anything but he doesn't doesn't have that best ever within his niche. And and you could still say that he was more valuable player than Marian Rivera certainly going by regular world war he would be. Maybe maybe not if you count postseason. But he doesn't. Have you know best shortstop ever status the way that Rivera Henry status. Yeah and and you know for for the time when you know when jeter rose to prominence. It was as part of that shortstop trinity that also included Alex Rodriguez and Nomar Garciaparra And there were certainly years is what all three were going concerns that he might have been the third best of those you know. So he in some ways he kinda he kinda suffered by comparison to them but he outlasted them at the position would be for reasons that are that are perhaps. Not always doesn't -sarily the most wholesome reasons but you know. The reality is that that he had the staying power and had amassed the the right to stave off that kind of move which might have hastened his exit from the stage. And you know it's a IT'S A. It's all kind of complicated but the reality is sixth. all-time hits you and and no reason to doubt the veracity of of his accomplishment. I mean that's their nineteen thousand plus players who played baseball over the past one hundred fifty years and and you know most of them did not get anywhere close to what to what he accomplished. That's all favor so in the absence of other strong first time candidates besides jeeter and possibly Abreu who is is poised to take advantage of that the hold-overs who might see a boost. I guess the big one that everyone will be paying attention to because he's in his final year of eligibility. Is Larry Walker. So can he make another big leap and get to seventy five percents. He would walk would have to essentially equal last year in twenty point. Five percent percentage points last year. He didn't get twenty four this year. that to me. That's that's probably a tall order but you know in just the same way that we've kind of seen seeing this You know on the field at as you have been more the primary documentaries you know malleability in terms of trajectory and improvement through. You know through because of the age that we live in with the technological input and maybe a more open mindedness worst. We've seen that to some extent within the the hall of fame voting to you know going back all the way to to burt. bly recovery from a slow start the rallies of Edgar Martinez and Tim Raines before him To overcome the loss of five years years of eligibility and and and the slow starts to their candidacy. We've seen a lot of very you know. Nearly unprecedented stuff if not fully unprecedented stuff in the last few years so I wouldn't say never ever for Walker I think that At the very least he has positioned himself to almost certainly enter the hall of fame. Sometime in the NACHO DISA- future because he's already Above fifty percent and almost certainly will get above sixty percent maybe even seventy percent of the vote. But it's still a tall order to get to seventy five percent here the era especially because he's been so unsupported on The private ballots which are generally retired voters and voters who for one reason or another are more US beyond accountability. They're not they're not publishing. Their ballots are not there. There may be not doing a lot of deep research into you know into the candidates they're just did you know going on memory in triple crown stats and And whatever and probably loving too too hard or too high impact on on a too high discount on on his time course field. But I think that you know he's going to benefit from the less crowded To some extent maybe curt schilling. Well although if you do a comparison In the Ryan Tipo tracker over which guys were listed as if I had more than ten spots and could could add additional names Walker and Scott Rowland were well ahead of Shila. I had one writer who said that they had I think she rolling was tops with twelve walker. I think maybe he had about ten so you you know. I think that you know He. He'll add some and we've already seen a couple people at him of the like less than ten voters who've who set in their ballots. He's already picked up a couple so I I think it's a good trend but I I I'm not holding my breath the he'll be elected so let me read you. Something Joe Sheehan wrote this week about Walker. He said my resistance has always been in about Walker's short career in the seventeen seasons. He had just over. Eight thousand plate appearances. The writers have rarely put a player with that few played appearances. Who played since the schedule? Joel went two hundred sixty two games. There was Kirby Puckett but of course he was forced to retire early in the Piazza. But he's a catcher and then he continued as has with Edgar Martinez however the recent induction of Trevor Hoffman puts walkers low P totals in context Huffman faced forty three hundred eighty eight batters in his career and and even giving him some leverage credit. Doesn't make up nearly four thousand plate appearances if we're going to put low volume relievers in the standard for hitters especially hitters. Who Were Hall of famers on a rate basis has to move accordingly? So wanted to ask you about that argument because of of course jaws is set up such that players are compared to players at their own position. And because you know catchers get different playing time than right fielders or whatever so you WanNa look at different standards. So should we compare relievers to relievers and say okay. Well Reliever IT'S A. It's a job specialized reliever that's a staple in baseball now. Also if you're the best at that you should get in or shall we say well. Yeah but relievers. I just aren't as valuable as a group as these other players. I mean I tend to I tend to side with the. Let's let's try to keep the apples apples compared to apples and oranges to oranges. But I think philosophically it's it's worth appreciating what Joe saying you know and I think one reason why we why. I think it's worth turning to advance. Assistance is is is because they helped to illustrate that Ito playing time isn't the only thing you know Larry Walker did more in eight thousand plate appearances than you. uh-huh say Dave Winfield didn't intend thousand plate appearances. You know guys who were routinely lauded for reaching major Would feel that twelve thousand plus played Burns's guys who are routinely lauded for sticking around to get three thousand hits or four hundred. Five hundred home runs turned out to be less valuable over the course of their careers because they didn't have all the the dimensions in their games. That Walker Hat. You know. It's not just as hitting stats. That were voting on her. Hit total were voting on. You know this guy was an elite defender. He was outstanding base runner. Despite the fact that he didn't look like he had great speed he was it was a very smart base runner As well and just as the all around impact of his game I mean you know we hear so much beyond the beyond the numbers. This guy does the little things Larry Walker did the little things and it shows up in in his war in fact the baseball football reference within war. There's a combination of base running and double-play avoidance stats that that Be Ref calls little things literally utterly and he's like ranks very high. I air added an extra five wins that way just on the on in that facet alone so I think what what these metrics can help us show show is that perfect. Attendance is not mandatory. You know it's like the the guy who doesn't study batsman still aces the test Larry Walker dinner for his teams in the eight thousand plate appearances appearances he made or the one hundred forty games a year or hundred thirty games a year that he had a greater impact than guys. who were who were there for all one hundred sixty two? Sometimes you know it's it's like a catcher in some ways I mean you've got to pick your spots you couldn't you couldn't play Larry Walker. Every day I mean playing high altitude exacts. A physical cost playing on astroturf as he did during his time in Olympic exciting exacts. A physical cost. I mean those things need to be appreciated. When you're talking about? Oh he only played on more than one hundred forty three games once or whatever You GotTa look at the context within. which is that occurred? He also two seasons were cut into by the strike. Yeah right and then the rest of the players on the ballot who you might stand to gain from the sears small new class. You've got the problematic trio of London. Clemens and schilling problematic for different runs many reasons they each have multiple reasons. Maybe right and then you've got the other PD tainted players. You've got manny and you've you've got Sheffield and Sosa and Giambi and on and on and then you've got Rohan who you briefly touched on who I would vote for if I could now and we'll a couple of years from now but may have trouble gaining a huge amount of support so to see anyone else making a serious run I think just about everybody is going to benefit from you know from this in some way or another some more than others. I don't see a tie. I don't see bonds and clemens gaining a ton of support by the looser ballot again going back to the you know the the self reporting voters in terms of who they would add if they had more than ten shilling had one voter I think bonds clemens each had to You know people are more more or less made up their minds about them Although maybe there are some people who feel like they would be willing to to to include them if it weren't you know at at the expense of we'll just call it a more wholesome player but You know I think it's I think it's guys that not maybe guys that I favour will will benefit. I think some guys is that I'm not that I'm not so wild about from a hall of fame standpoint will gain I think jeff can't you know there's no reason that Jeff Kent won't gain some ground or Andy Pettitte you you know as well as Scott Rowland Hot Helton on my risk Al Omar Vizquel. We'll certainly gain ground. Although I know I don't get sense that they're hearing you know. He's such a such a different case ace and is also one who is really kind of right. In the middle among returning candidates be go from Walker at fifty four percent two viviscal at forty two point eight percent to Kent at eighteen percent. There's a big middle ground there. Billy Wagner one I think will benefit You know I actually Kinda ballot managed him onto my virtual ballot last year. And you know I I get the sense that there are a lot of people who would like to You know like to find room for for him. I think they're just GONNA be a lot of you know I think there's maybe maybe if you're if you're inclined to vote for bonds and clemens you're you you could probably easily go eight or nine deep and you got a vote but for personal preference there Beyond that if you if you feel like going to ten and if you're if you're not inclined to vote for those guys you've still got some room to play with if you want to you know recognize Somebody whether it's better or or or KANTER. Whatever who feel like the the numbers that the that I'm using don't do them justice? Do you have any kind of I. Guess less obvious picks if you were to be voting. This year I don't know if you've made up your mind yet about what your virtual ballot will look like but is there anyone who is not just a a street yes he satisfies the Joss criteria so I think think about I think about Sheffield a lot because the extent to which those defensive stats hammer him at our. You know my my my concern about the about out wires in any form cheater as well. you know that were not necessarily doing them justice. Because you know a more you know. If it's justifiable to to apply a more delicate and regressed measure for fielding than he doesn't get hit nearly as hard B- Billy Wagner because of kind of turned away from just using straight jaws. When it comes to relievers? Those are two that. Take the longest look at Todd. Helton because his peak is well above the standard Even if his his jaws is a little bit below is one that that's an easy yes for me likewise with Andrew Jones. Yeah who I think are kind of the opposite of the Sheffield case. I guess yeah he he is he is. Hey you know it's it's their multiple ways to look at these guys defensive metrics. I think we have to offer. There's a lot of uncertainty there. You know even over the course of careers. There's some uncertainty. But I think we you know when you've got competing methodologies and you're the that that could change our our point of view it's worth acknowledging that and and and you know the fact that we don't have a magic bullet answer. I mean like the the work of Chris. Dial you know who's involved in the cold glove of voting in the statistical component which includes his forerunner runner to UCR called Runs effectively defended or read. You know he has some interesting things to say about the the merits of the gold gloves. One by Viviscal and Jones were tracking down Those extended threads in Twitter some of which I've I've quoted in articles or at least summarized so. Oh Yeah it's I'd like to think that I you know I I might surprise you if you're if all you're looking at is the baseball reference table and seeing who's who's exactly above the line in jaws and who who isn't yes virtual ballot will end up surprising you if you read by series. You'll probably get an idea of Or listen to be talking about another context. Probably get an idea that uh-huh yes even I do deviate from my own system To to a small degree here and they're probably a little early to be talking about this. That doesn't come into play with anyone on this year's ballot. But I know you've written about it and I wrote about it this past postseason the question of catcher framing and how that will factor into hall of fame candidacies. Because we just I saw yet your Molina and Brian McCann Russ Martin playing in the postseason McCain of course retired so he started his hall of fame clock and by by that point. You know five six seven years from now whenever it is that all of these guys are eligible we might see every version of war incorporating catcher framing we might see more understanding and acceptance of that on the other hand maybe robot ups will be more of a reality by then and people won't want to retroactively credit catchers for for something like that at that point so any ideas out. That's going to go. I don't have a crystal ball I would you know I think I wrote about these guys. A particular ca-canada Martin The spring when when when fan graphs added catcher framing the their version of defensive runs saved that includes catcher framing is on baseball reference although it's not included in the official war totals had I I I'm kind of curious I know we've we've we've seen a pretty credible version of what we call Retro Framing Donna Donna Baseball Prospectus. Which I think still to me has the gold standard of the framing metrics because it goes so far back and I have talked to the purveyors of both that and the fan graphs version about? Is there any signal to be to be picked up if we move prior to nineteen eight and are looking at the with you without you. strikeout rates on walk rates of pitchers you know. Could we ever get even the slightest approximation. Of what Johnny Bencher Gary Carter or Carlton Fisk might have added or subtracted with regards to framing. I think looking looking back you know. I keep thinking of the Mike. Piazza example. Piazza was flagged for having such a low caught stealing percentage but it turns out he was very good at pitch blocking and outstanding standing pitch framing and and and we now have that data on wall. It's not you know it didn't keep him from the hall of fame. I think it makes us overall case It strengthens is overall case. You know we and and our understanding of where we place him within the Pantheon knowing that and knowing that not every catcher who's good defensively earliest good defensively in the same way. Yeah right there's a just a few years of Gary Carter Framing data from the tail end of his career when he was in his mid to late thirties and even then he was quite good. According to the numbers we have so who knows if we had his whole career but yet then that gets into that whole debate about well. Is it fair to evaluate. Today's Catcher's completely differently from yours. Catch rates right now to some extent. I think you're going to have to go on. You know at least at least starting with a sense of where they ranked within their era than Owen and we see that you know McCain and Martin in a framing inclusive way and to a lesser extent Molina or maybe to a great extent. I forget exactly what the ranking say but like. Yes that those guys are significantly ahead of the pack because of the a combination of longevity and excellence and at least you know some some amount of a two way contribution which for Molina was made more batting average cedric for for McCain was more power center in for Martin More on base percentage but that's pigeonholing each one and they all had their their merits. But I don't think it's an absurd argument that if if especially if y'all ain't Melina is going to skate into the hall of fame based on the consensus of the little things that we couldn't capture with war That we think about Martin and mechanic cannon those same ways because the numbers certainly uphold the idea that they were every bit as good in the framing department. Yeah it's a complicated thing which I know. Oh you've experienced because he based jaws on war and or changes in some way every year I mean depending on which were you're using things are added things Sir recalculated their new baselines the catcher framing addition. That's the big one because that can really change certain guys value but if you add value catchers than maybe that takes it away from pitchers and you know. There's kind of a constant re accounting thick goes on which is good because hopefully we're getting closer and closer to you an accurate appraisal but it can be tricky if you have a system based on it in that system is not static. So yeah it's it's it's you know it's something I yeah I kind of think about. I was reading that great piece about the Universal Music Group. Fire a few months ago. By Jody Rosen The New York Times. And you go talks about the existence of master recordings and how technology allows us to go back and get an preserve more of it. You know with each generation we get a better fidelity able to to like wider dynamic range with obviously with the right tools. Were able to improve our the versions person so that we get to here and I think you know baseball. Statistics especially wins above replacement. With all that we've got all the we continue to add to it by learning by researching and learning we enhanced that we get. We're getting more clarity out of out of these older careers. We also can acknowledge that. There's more uncertainty in certain in spots. But you know I think on the whole they enhance our appreciation when we know Oh you know this guy. From twenty years ago was was doing a lot more than we gave him. Credit afford the time and And you know when we can incorporate that door judgments here when we're we're thinking about you know his all time standing and just as music music. Publishers can keep releasing remastered sets every few years and you can release a remastered Cooperstown casebook and get more sales against God. I what I really need to do was is formerly start pitching a new version of the book. Because we've already got what four or five guys That I profiled have been elected and we've got a bunch more up for election This year and hope that at least One or two of them. Get in Lou Whittaker Ted Simmons Are are on the bottom. aww That's inevitable that curt schilling is going to get in and knock on wood. Hopeful that MINNIE MINOSO and Dick Allen next year via the Golden Days Committee and Uh Yeah and suddenly you turn over the whole slate or most of the slate. And I've got a whole new batch guys. I'd like to write about in that foreman and some essays that I'd like to tackle in longer longer form both You know things that didn't fit in the first book and things that are the thought of since then and things that are kind of updating or contrast certain trends and Yeah I I certainly have more to say on the subject and I think people want to read more about the subject you know finding the right audience and all that is is still the challenge in and Doc But yeah I'd like to think that there will be eventually You know a second casebook somewhere so you've already finished writing about the modern baseball era ballot and wanted to talk about this Kinda conflicted. I guess about the continued. Just a re airing of candidacy is. Because they're certain eras is that have just been picked over so many times that if you're not in by now maybe that sat maybe you've had your chance and historically speaking those kind of secondary ways to get into the hall have produced a lot of the more questionable choices on the other hand. I want the weather to get in. You know. There are certain guys every year who really have a strong chance and for whatever reason they just didn't get there do when they were first on the ballot so on the one hand we get this kind of as a way to just get Jack Morrison somehow or you know to put Harold Baines in because a bunch of people on the committee like terrible pains and it's sort of a strange to have this one system with hundreds of people voting and then this other with just a little more than a handful of people voting and yet both get you into the hall of fame but on the other hand there. There are still some deserving players who got passed over who should get another shot. It seems like yeah look for as much as I can have have and will continue to criticize the hall of fame. I do think that the current Eric Committee system was reasonably well. Thought aww out in terms of the varying frequencies with which eras are reevaluated. I think we have largely picked over the The early baseball candidates and so considering them once every decade seems appropriate. We've learned a lot about doc Adams in the last decade. Thanks to Work Jon Thorne for example I think you wore has given us a better appreciation of say Bill Dahlen and Jack Glass Cock and there's maybe a couple for other guys in there that you know some nineteenth century pitchers I know there's a guy who's Banging the drum endlessly for Jim McCormack you. I know and I think it's fine to to to look to to reevaluate those and you know once in a while and see. Hey did we miss anything did these new methodologies and our new new research at anything to our understanding sure that seems fine. But we just don't have to do that every year or every other year on the other hand you know the seventies I think as seventies and eighties are still kind of under represented within the within the hall and the that I mean the flu whitaker getting only one chance dance compared to the dozens of times Some of these veterans committee guys were up in the past rookies. Gil Hodges with full fifteen year on the ballot. I don't know how many times on on on Veterans Committee ballots. There's there's an inequity there And I think you know having having this I mean you could draw shoe very strong. Slates of the bottom baseball fault have no overlap and still create a backlog of candidates or or still find you know. Find a way to get a ballot where you've got four slots but maybe five guys worth voting for him in like for if we're talking about that Arab imagine about that. Has You know Keith Hernandez on it and Billy Martin George George Steinbrenner and Charlie Finley not as the most savory guys but guys whose footprint on baseball history is huge and they're comparable to guys who are in the hall of fame. I'm and are worth considering in that context and then you you know Bill Freon Eleven time all star. Who just went one and done In in the early eighties. It's just the there's just a whole lot there from that era and I you know I think reevaluating some these with more frequency is the right thing to do that said. I'm not very comfortable with the sixteen member format or before it. At times. It was down to his fewest twelve. One person in those small rooms can have an outsized impact. I would much rather see These electric double in size. And maybe even triple and have some way that you know if if Harold Baines is up up for election on a small committee ballot then you know anybody who who who was the owner or the GM or the manager during his tenure has to recuse himself from that vote. You could say there they can. They can testify on his behalf. But they don't get to put their thumb on the scale and the hall doesn't get to hand pick it all star lineup. NEP of of witnesses for each guy or for certain guys and give the appearance that they are Gaming this process because that's certainly what seemed to happen last year with herald bands. And I'm sure it's probably you know we're not beyond the possibility that that it could happen again. Either for a candidate or against it. You know I can't I mean I. I don't think I if Joe Morgan on the hall board of Directors and who wrote that letter about about a PhD keeping PD candidates out if he can go join the joint committee when when he so chooses. Of course he's going to join the committees that that that could have an impact on on You know when. PDD CAn't related. Candidates are up for election. And I you know that's that's kind of that's smacks of a conflict of interest So yeah anyone that's a big spiel and their cases where maybe one player getting in helps another player get in because you say well the skies in if you look at it. This other player is not actually different from that player. Maybe you could do that with just like You Know Vlad Guerrero got in. And maybe Larry Walker is just as good a player if not a better player and they were varies. So that's the kind of case where you might see that affect but there's probably not going to be a Hera baynes effect right because you could play the well. If Baines is in this guy should be in game with with everyone. Well I mean you know from the from the From the writers from the from the BWIA perspective. I think there's a lot of distaste for the election of beans not for Baynes personally but for the fact that you know he had five times on the ballot and got no more than six point. Whatever percent overwhelmingly rejected you know? No no no no no no and you know and that was overturned by today's game committee. You know I think so. I think there's a discomfort there but I think the you know with that and I don't think we're GONNA you. We're not seeing. Harold Baines used as a bar for for other candidates because then you've got eighteen guys on his ballot or whatever it is you know. He's seventy fifth among rightfielder. So you know going down the list obviously a braves the S. and and not only that but Hey have you considered Sheffield and and and you know Jeff Kent at his position or whatever you go wait way over the line with that. But with the the impact of those votes on the small committees. I think think we just have to acknowledge that. We don't know what the Hell is going to happen. Especially because the you know there's there's just such a there's even more trance. There's even less transparency transparency in the process. Now with you know with us not knowing who's on these panels beforehand and and at least you know having some ability to do report that and disseminate it you know. In a way that has an impact on on things you know then before because used to be when the panel was announced when the ballot was announced the voters were announced. And that's with the move to this. New Iteration of Eric Committees. That's no longer the case so I'll ask you about Marvin Miller in a second but the players on this modern baseball ballot. There are some good ones and some appropriate deserving once so even though we think of this as the body that got Jack Morrison or that got Harold Baines in and there are players with pretty strong cases here. So you've got Lou Whittaker you've got Ted Simmons you've got Thurman Munson you've got Dwight Evans and you know. Then they're lesser guys like like Steve. Garvey who is certainly more famous than Harold Baines but probably not a better player or at least not significantly. So and then you've got you know Mattingly Murphy who are beloved beloved. But don't quite make that bar and Tommy John Who Kinda has a dual legacy going for him. But I think you have made cases at least for Whitaker her and Simmons and Munson and maybe Evans to or at least have explained that case. So can you lay those out. Yeah sure I mean Whitaker Winokur Winokur is I think he's got the the highest war of just about anybody outside the hall of fame except for bonds and clemens career war that is bobby. grits is a little higher impeach. There's another guy who you put on a Eric. Committed the that seventy dollars and you're you're going to produce a similarly strong slate whitaker's ahead of him career lower on peak but just an outstanding two way second baseman in a way that out that we really appreciate it enough at the time Five time all star the fact that the Tigers only won one world series and only made it to play-offs I think has has hurt him but he was right there with Alan Trammell Both those guys did a lot to prevent the runs that Jack Morris is credited with preventing because he was not a strikeout pitcher. I think he belongs in. I think Ted Simmons who was a offensively elite catcher for most of his career but kind of got lost in the shadows. I Hide Johnny Bench then behind Gary Carter. You know is a guy who who who should be. He's another guy with a very strong peak position Dwight Evans High on base. Good very good defense. Just didn't pair them quite enough He's a little bit more borderline for me. He's kind of the car. It's a career versus peak argument versus him between him and thorough in months. Who Only played eleven years which two were partial so and did it all awards wise rookie of the year? MVP Catcher for championship teams plus another pennant winner outstanding in the postseason. You know gold gold gloves Did all these things all stars Versus Evans who was only three time all star and and besides the gloves Didn't really get the same the same kind of attention attention to me. It came down to those two for the last spot and I went with Munson with the fourth slot reserved for Miller who I think really. You know it's just an absurdity now the that that he's not in unfortunately kind of a tragedy to yeah well so with Miller The only question really is whether you should put in someone who said said towards the end of his life that he didn't want to be in in his ninety s because it had been so long and because he had been passed over so many times he said. No thanks. Thanks you know. I don't want to be a member of this body and his children have said that they don't want it that they wouldn't show up so on the one hand you have that on the other hand you have have the fact that he's just a giant of the game who just based Paul as much as or more than anyone and it's hard to say that the museum is is complete or representative presentative without having hidden in there. Yeah it's you know it's I read Barbara. Had it right when he said that. The three people three most influential people in baseball history. Babe Ruth Jackie Robinson and Marvin Miller and other variants of that have branch rickey as as the fourth on what you might call Rushmore But yeah yeah there's he had the most impact of any non player in the in the game's history and to the list of of rights that he won for the players and the effect is massive. Maybe not always to everybody's liking free agency is kind of a double edged sword in terms of what you know what it does to team continuity and to fans connections to players but You know Baizley was an argument for workplace rights and a very convincing one at that I think. Wall Wall I respect in appreciate the wishes of the family you know with regards to Marlin Miller desire not to be in the hall of fame I think when I spoke to him In Oh eight I guess it was and and you know you read the interviews and he was you know this is a guy who was listed in the phone book. You could call Him Up a level of accessibility that we don't get these days anymore. You know the the signals were were. Were not without their occasional ambiguity but I think you you know as much as we can appreciate his wishes. Those families are greater duty is to baseball history. And I personally I love the idea that if you put Marvin Miller in the hall of fame has plaque is going to be glaring at that of Bowie Kyun and all the all the other small men who tried to keep him out and it's going to bug the hell out of some people in the hall of Fame Board Every time they walk past the he's a Jew it's a giant middle finger there and that's why it has to be there right so One more thing I wanted to mention two years. Sometimes you get these candidates who for whatever reason people just think of them as as closer to hall of famers than their war would say or their house would say. Maybe Garvey's an an example of that. But I saw a tweet from Tyler Kettner of times earlier this month and he said Paul Kohner goes career is laughably undervalued by war he had had twenty seven point seven baseball reference where which is fewer than von Hayes Martine Pro Rondo white etc.. War is useful to me as a general guideline but sometimes it. It just feels way off and I guess the question there is you know. Does that mean that war is way offer. Does that mean that your perception of the players way off. I think I think it's a perception. Crocodile had four hundred. Something home runs for her. Thirty nine home runs but a one eighteen O. PS plus from from a a first baseman. It's not read anything special and then you look at the little things that CIPOLLINI value. I mean he's extreme minus thirty six and base running runs. Yeah wound home minus forty in double play runs. That's massive. I mean without looking. I'd have to say that's probably a almost easily at top. Ten total off for the for the years that we have coverage minus fifty two and fielding runs double digits below average in both twenty ten and twenty twelve. I mean that's Below D. H. Caliber. That's the point at which God really doing your team a disservice by playing him in the field. You WanNa Know Adam Dunn. was there on boy. He's terrible fielder to But there were they're just Conoco did not have the little things that add it up. I mean he had good triple crown stats and that's really what it comes down to four hundred thirty nine home runs and four above forty home runs a couple times and above thirty You know a bunch of times seven times seven or eight times times of the of thirty home runs and more lots of hundred. RBI seasons lots of three hundred batting average seasons. But you know there's just there's less to it than than meets it's the I once you start accounting for the broader context of of of his career and and all that and you know I like I I understand stand that you know it's not fun to rain on the parade of of of those who've thought Paul Paul Burke was was an outstanding representative presentative of for the White Sox and for baseball in general and and who have fond memories of his career. But that doesn't mean we have to honor them with cooperstown. I think just you. You know we owe baseball history An honest accounting. And you know if he's this. Generation's Steve Garvey or or whatever then You know fine. This is a guy who didn't finish higher than fifth in an MVP voting wasn't really even thought of along the lines of Garvey. So I'm not particularly particularly sympathetic to the idea that that he somebody who deserves a lot of hall consideration. Because you know Garvey at least have the that kind of fame going for him and Conoco didn't even have that yeah and some of his figures came in high scoring years at yes when they were very high standards for offensive first basement. I mean there are other guys on the ballot. GIAMBI Helton rented GIAMBI HAS PD stuff and Helton has course field but those guys were better players and better hitters than Pokanoka right even. They probably aren't quite at that level. So yeah we'll even you adjust for the era stuff in there. I mean yeah. They've they've each got fifteen points or more on him. In terms of opioids plus and Helton was legitimately excellent defender Jami had on-base percentage for days of now and Yeah it's It looks different once you move beyond the triple crown stats right and or should surprise you. Sometimes if it never surprised to value to Warren Orange Ause I mean look I I I said this. Something factor my chat. You know even were using like pre batted ball directional whatever you WANNA call it advanced fielding building stats even the crude method that accrued method call. Totals on that comes up with Roberto Clemente Brooks Robinson Marc Bolanger Slash Ozzie. Smith and Willie mays is the number. One one defensive players at their position probably can't be that far off off when you're talking about It's view it's view of other players players were they don't always square square with perception. Save is cal. I I like the fact that jaws will surprise me at sometimes. I think it's if it's getting if if it's obvious. Eighty percent of the time but surprise twenty percent of the time. It seems like it's about a good ratio from WanNa you know do want to realize that we don't get everything right the first time time around and there are things we miss that the new stats help to illuminate. Yeah Yeah not that we need to just vote straight war or jaws. And as you said you you don't do that and won't do that but it's a it's a good guideline. It's probably better than just eyeballing it based on what you thought at the time when we knew less about player value. So all right well we will. Of course be monitoring all of this throughout the rest of this month the next month ballots are due December. Thirty first ten. Of course they must be mailed via snail because the hall of fame. And we'll be looking at Ryan does tracker. And you can read Jay's breakdowns sounds of all the players on both the ballots and we'll link to the ones that are already up those all the appearing pretty steady for the next month or so so as always we thank you for your hall of Fame Service and everyone can go check out the Cooperstown casebook which is Missing only the most recent few inductees. Thanks sure thing. Thanks a lot all right. That will do it for today and for this week. Thanks for listening. The arbitrary thankful for your continued support especially if you are a patriotic John Supporter and you can become one by going to patriots dot com slash effectively wild signing up to pledge some of the upkeep the podcast going and get yourself access says to some perks the following five listeners have already signed up David Whitcomb. Of course Eddie. Dutch Lem Broschi Jeremy Thais and Zachary Barclay thinks well of you. You can join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash group Sash Wild you can rate review and subscribe to affect well On itunes and other podcasts platforms. Commend US your questions and comments via email at podcast that thank rest dot com or via the pitch and missing system. If you are a supporter thanks Dylan Higgins for his editing assistance instance. We hope you have a nice post holiday break and safe holiday travel and we will be back to talk to you early next week. Just me I was wrong. Aw Say thank you for a recital sights on come back to either in the Food Hall of fame shame in they say all.

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Ash Ketchum Finally Wins - Kinda Funny Games Daily (w/Mega Ran) 09.16.19

Kinda Funny Games Daily

50:32 min | 1 year ago

Ash Ketchum Finally Wins - Kinda Funny Games Daily (w/Mega Ran) 09.16.19

"Buddy welcome to kind of funny Games daily for Monday September Sixteenth Twenty nineteen. I'm Greg Miller alongside mega eh back and better than ever. How you doing mega great good to be here good morning good morning to you? I'm so happy you made. It is much to talk to you about. I love these glass is number one. Thank you so much hard to find but thanks yeah we're to get him tie called trill and Phoenix a special retail partner of Khazal aw able to get these like I'll just happened to be looking for something else in the shipment came in a while and on my GimMe GimMe GimMe GimMe Gimme so they looked out for me. Thanks drew will it was worth speaking of looking out for each other around of applause for one chemical Wella yes in kept came in today went into the studio. The album found the main computer dead just dead on arrival when he turned it on blue screen called del the hard drives debt is what I understand. He's got to fix that now but was able to Yank thank Kubrick's computer out of the wall. Get back in here and get it operational in time for us to be just a little bit late. Thank you Kevin Thank you Kevin. That's a big problem camp out of the woods yet. You think standby stuff. I think we're good standby transitional stuff. That isn't saved saved okay. I'm trying to figure out everybody send your love to Kevin Coa Mega. You're coming through because you're onto or that right I am we are playing San Francisco tonight. Bottom the hill with my good friends eighty eight bit and Sky Blue The blue bomber tour. We've been on for the past week to gus from Arizona all the way up to the bay area yeah and it's been Super Fun Eighty eight bits and amazing classically trained video game pianist so he plays awesome tunes the While I do a little little bit of wrapping. That's awesome sky blue. I've been endorsing for years. It's an amazing jazz hop their core artists that just oozes positively tippety and just brightens up the room and the stage so it's been an honor to play with these guys that's awesome and after that the tour is over but you're going to Japan. I'm GONNA manage man. I'm going to be doing three more shows out there going Kyoto Asaka and Tokyo for a couple of tune festivals and events with some good friends friends of mine so touring never really stops from no no. That's the thing I always seems like you're. You're on the next onto the next thing. There's always something happening always something else. You have to be like chest. I guess you gotTa be thinking thinking. Twenty moves ahead in this business. You know the moment you drop something. People like okay. So when's the next thing you know. Listen to it over for one weekend great. When's the next thing interesting now so you have to constantly be thinking about what's next I like or you're dead on the Internet? I think about that if I don't tweet for twenty four hours it's okay on follow move on moving on while you're onto your and thank goodness switch man. I've been able to play a final fantasy eight remastered and I've been playing river city girls which I love a lot and I just finally downloaded floor kids. Simple people have been talking to me about for a while now so I just got those so. That's what I'm playing when we're not driving six hours through treacherous mounts. Keep Your eyes on the road at that point intercity girls get yes so good reminds me of Scott. Pilgrim was such a classic game and I was always a big fan of the river city games anyway so much so I did an album about him way back. I did some tracks using some of the music so I was definitely concerned about where the music would go yeah. You know what I mean how the old one was like that's that's fifty sixty sock hop kind of field but this music's great grab is a great. The moves are awesome characters animation big bright colorful a highly recommend it wait for it. They don't wait for definitely knows what they're doing. Don't just like you. Where can people keep up with your music? Oh well you go to Meg Ryan Dot COM for all all the music stuff you may merch dot com for the merch stuff and you go to at mega ran on twitter for up to the minute updates dates and dad jokes perfect. We're more of those jokes here because we're GONNA be talking about. Ashley finally become a Polka Master Fato fantasy seven remake getting a classic mode and more because because this is kind of funny games daily each and every weekday on a variety of platforms we run you through the nerdy video game news and even know about if you like that part of the show Patriot dot com slash kind of funny funny games with your questions concerns comments and everything under the video game son then tune in to watch his record the show live rain or shine. Thanks to Kevin Coelho Dot TV slash kind of funny games. If you're watching live you've special job go to kind of funny dot com slash your wrong Intel's what we screw up as we screwed up so we can set the record straight for everybody watching later on youtube dot com slash kind of funny Games Rooster Teeth Dot Com and listening on podcast services around the globe housekeeping for you today. I'd like to thank our the producers Patriot dot com slash re Retro Games blackjack Mohamed Mohamed and tell you that we're brought to you by the kind of funny Inner Site Championship Packs West Twenty nineteen video. That's is on YouTube dot com slash kind of funny games right now but I'll tell you about that later for now. Lets we're GONNA show is an forever. We'll be the rope reports for some new ooh. I know you think four that doesn't sound like a good Monday pickup the potatoes but I'll tell you what some of these potatoes are hardy all right hardie potatoes number one Ashwan pokemon league. This is Brian Ashcroft to talk you. The perennial loser Ash Ketchum is now a winner in the most recent episode of the Pokemon Sun Moon animate ash broke his losing streak with a championship trophy for decades. Ash Rush has lost in Pivotal League Championship matches in two thousand sixteen. He lost in a heartbreaker during the kilos Kayla Carlos thanks Barrett League finals in the POKEMON. XYZ enemy but now he is a lowest current reigning champion you kids with your words. Ah Brian which things on Kentucky reactions one. I thought that was meaningful. Here was from at Ralston just to be clear and not have anyone confused accused Ashwin a polk Amman league not the polk Amman League. There's no such thing as the pokemon league since since each region has their own League Orange Island Island and battle frontier don't count orange is not a region and bef was a challenge come on. Hey Ma'am have this. Somebody's gotTA call it down the line. You know what I'm celebrating because God knows I'm confused. I'm in on top of that and other Kazakh article. I saw that I wanted to loop in James Witt brick had the story the original English dub of voice actor of ash congratulating Ash Veronica Taylor put up a video where she did the ash of originally talking yeah no honey. I'm really you call right now because prove it. We're ash was congratulating Ash James Academic transcribed it reads like this. Hey it's your younger but still the same age Ash Ketchum congratulations on winning the polk among league I want to say I always knew you could do it but really I didn't. I only knew that to achieve your goals. You had to train hard in that is true but along the way I found out the importance of constantly learning in challenging yourself and being open to new new experiences that by helping others you help yourself in mostly. It's not winning the counts but how you play the game but man it sure feels good to win. Congratulations nations and keep up the good work. I gotTA GO MOM's making dinner with Mister Mind. Catch you later no mega. How does this make you feel? I'd never thought I'd see this day. I think when you when you get so accustomed losing in eight hundred bits from Cleveland so he he should understand this but apparently haber yeah when you're so accustomed to it. I think you just assume that that's just the way it's GonNa ago yeah so this leads to more questions when I guess we'll get to those later but what does this mean in terms of Canon like. Where do we go from here? This is the new pokemon game reflect this win. How does this go will? It be challenged later like I'm really curious where this goes Barrett your polka maniac. Uh I'm not as hardcore as one Sir Tim gettys who's leaning around the corner. Look at him. He looks like he's leading in listening to little sisters. Talk about take yeah I I really loved the Pokemon anime when I was a young buck and I play the games like every every couple generations yeah so like I haven't watched the POKEMON anime probably since third gen which would be which region Tim. Do you know Hawn. Yes I probably haven't watched since then but it still great sue hear these stories that are coming out of the current run out Geez. We're all fucking. They're all right top sixteen. He made Tom Teen in the league and this little punk ass. Richie comes out with his peak. It's you sparky not yet way cooler that Ashby conceal chart. I choose you bad fucking. Call Greg not them way to early. He wants to listen. He Fell Asleep Asleep on the battlefield to the entire match up. You know what I mean. Then he goes on Orange Island's was all be real bullshit. They need some filler stuff. He won that stuff who cares they go on. They go to Joe to. It's a brand. New World is a whole new way to see a brand new attitude greg whilst that Shit to just keeps going losing losing losing last time second place second place man he meets second-place Greg but this time he finally did he and we did it. All it took was a weird art change but it's a cool. It's cool. Eh Spicy story places not him. I don't think you're GONNA have comments on a real level with since questions so you're not able to leave. Ah like a Meg Ryan was saying it's like when you get so used to losing share. You think this is how it's GonNa go your entire life and so it's inspiring to like you know even though I don't watch it anymore to hear the story of this kid who even though he fucked up in the first pokemon league that went to and got kicked out sixteenth place he kept going and he kept going to eighth place and he got fifth place I think at one point and then second place and then he finally did it and it's an inspiring story of no matter matter how many times life beats you down. You can always get back up and prove your worth an zero zero zero in the Patriots Dot Com Slash Kinda Fun Games and says Good Morning Greg and mega ran. He said to me the very best like no one ever was early Sunday the ten year old from Pallet town after twenty plus years as one a polk Amman league title now that Ashes One brings me to ask is sword and shield going to be a soft reboot of the brain as a whole the POK Mon company is not bringing over hundreds of poke monitor the new game and hinted to in the past that if ash ever wins the league they will change the protagonist of the anime with with the fact that the POK Mon Company everything related to poke him on. Does it seem that this is a path that you're going to go down or am I reading too much into this. We turn over to uh-huh expert. Tim gettys already leading in fire. Now he's ready. He's very fucking oak pulled up in a convertible Greg Miller full of women full of women again. Get also a ten year old child. Why is he driving? Why so many girls whose car why are they now wear their sleep problems here but the biggest problem ashes like Yo? How many badges do you doc is? He's like oh I got I got my fourth or whatever opens his little blue jacket shirt thing yeah. I guess it's a shirt shirt shirt shirt and he has I think it was like four badges at the time and Gary is like sh I got like ten and he opens it and yes ten badges. There aren't even ten batches and cancel now. Did he do that. How did he get bored? Badges suggest that even exist Greg Miller. I don't know I trying to make might not be clear. Thank you very set. The enemy doesn't give a flock about okay great dollars. This makes sense in southern at all. Does this mean there's going to be not at all. He just won a league. They make leagues up in this show like no one's business more than their badges doesn't even matter there's going going going and going and going guess what great twenty years from now yeah Astra win another one absolutely they're his friends Waldo brock misty let ash graduate window and then bringing in a new class no they never do that with his friends. They age them out weird girls. There's always new guy the rule of tooth's solid sky blue he's expert. I look come on. Give us some now. I'M GONNA screw it up. It's not an online I played a game. It's the you know the mobile one it's is. Is it a great ball. Yes everybody got everybody audio thoughts on Ash and what's going to happen to pokemon man. He's awesome. Finally we've seen a lot of US grew up on Pokemon so getting up for school in Middle School and everything wash pokemon in the morning and sent ask to all what is what he never one and that was the gorge joke all the time. We was like acid never gonNA win pokemon master. We're going to be poking around masters before him. They finally winning. That's that is a joyous for all of us that grew up on that so I don't know if they're going to change anything but I think it will changed the way we look at Ashley's. At least he's a winner. He's not actually winner. You know all right for the next nineteen twenty years and we'll be like but he got one exactly exactly what the one that's all matters. They can't take that away from one thing about ash is apparently pitcher may be the strongest pokemon in the universe so he spoke with pitcher. Oh I haven't senior they haven't I don't know I like I've seen I of course. I don't know anything in the photo of him with trophy peekapoos on his shoulder nine. Oh she's always with them so I don't know that's so you never give up. Believe your friends like ask Pichu yes there. You'RE GONNA get message anyone with team. Who did he win with all the Japanese name? You're you're going to go over there. There's going to be a tickertape parade for they're gonNA rename the airport number two on the report. What show the pictures show the pictures here ago? Uh Gary fucking there are eight badges to earn encounter. He got ten of them. Don't even make sense to Kevin Gimme exhibit be told you. You said he's not driving. There's another there's a woman behind the driver. That's his seat belts. I mean it was a different time back. Then number two other upper four final fantasy seven remake is going to have a classic moon. This is Michael Mc Ward or over a polygon final fantasy seven remake. We'll have a classic gameplay option for players who prefer their role playing games turn based just as the original final fantasy seven was back in one thousand nine hundred ninety seven at Tokyo game show on Saturday producer the producer of the game confirm that the remake of the classic Jr PG which updates the game to be an action RPG will offer an optional turn based battle mode where players can select attacks in other moves from a menu interface according to the translator recap of the final fantasy seven remake Tgif stage show from the game official twitter account classic mode will recreate the same style of turn based Gameplay from from the original while the standard of play will automatically fill the players ATB gauge as they attack enemies quote in classic mode. This aspect of gameplay is handled automatically the player or does not need to do anything and the character fights automatically charging up their age players who offer classic mode won't have to quote worry about the action side of the combat system scoring Ed said and Kennedy said focus on selecting commands making it possible to play final fantasy seven remake as if it were a classic menu based RPG of course this comes out on four March third twenty twenty mega heavy. Are you into this. Are you paying attention where you fall with the final fantasy. I'm a fan of the final fantasy now f f seven is my life. I love this game to probably twenty times. You WanNa know every time it comes out of have to buy it so but I don't really care about the classic mode I really. I'm okay with playing it and the action mode of teen was that because you've played it twenty times in in classic mode yeah. I think I'm ready to try something new. I'm totally fine with it played the demo and enjoyed it granted it can be a little tough concentrating on all your commands in your items and stuff while Oh you're in the middle of a battle share but it slows down so it gives you some some time to think about it and also that's always the thing with demos. They're dropping you deeper into the game we get it and you slowly starting locking stuff in getting things you're walking before you run on that one absolutely and I don't know I think it'll be more fun to watch. I don't WanNa Watch guy. Just sit there to to to to yeah what up and then come back to. You know it's not really that funny anymore. That's not that's not eighteen NARDA. BJ Bernardo right say the Patriots Dot com slash kind of funny games it says at the Tokyo Game Show was announced that there will be this classic old school battle Menu for final fantasy seven remake so can be like the original turn based game at first. I was like no thank you. I got to thinking about it. Do you see people using this old system if they provide really really Uberpool animations to keeping an entertaining could vis old system be new again. What changes would you like to see him and you interfaces for you to use it? He knew we were going to be here. He knew Gosh. We're right on on the same track here. I do need. I think cool animations but I don't even know how could they could be. I think I wanNA have a little more control so I I WANNA do through less watching and playing okay so I think that that will keep me engaged plus. When this constant random battles you're constantly trying to level up? You know I went new stuff so being able to run around dodge attacks and things in real time might make a lot more fun for me so I don't know what they could add. What do you think the classic classic mode for me? I think speaks to a few different things. I think more than anything it's going to be for your second or third play through I think they're I think they're giving you this final. Fantasy remake make right. They've already said it's going to be multiple games. They're gonNA tell the entire saga that way. I think it's that idea of when you're hankering to go back to it and we are getting ready for the next installment Tom using why play it again. Hey do something different right. That's always the cool thing about new game plus additional mode or some kind of different ways to play the game is the idea of like you know. The Arcade Games are always so great. You Ain't plus of jumping okay cool nominal play on the hardest difficulty. No you know bat sense going off on any blog. I think that's kind of what they're going for here. I don't I don't know how many people will start off that way and then ever GonNa WanNa see the new bells and whistles but eventually you're going to want that clown. You're GonNa want that classic thinking okay. I can see that yeah all right number. Three in Ohio Gamer has been sentenced to fifteen months for swatting this is Roxana Hegg MMA at the Associated Press in Ohio Gamer upset about a one dollars fifty dollar played a dollar fifty cent. Yeah we don't none of this type of this is GonNa that makes sense or be uplifting. While playing call of duty modern warfare to online was sentenced Friday to fifteen months in prison for recruiting prankster to make a bogus emergency call that resulted assaulted in the fatal shooting of a Kansas man by police Casey viner nineteen of North College Hill Ohio also is restricted from gaming activity for two years while he's super on supervised release after serving his prison term U S District Judge Eric Mellgren said in announcing the sentence viner repeatedly gulped and appeared Crestfallen as the judge announced his sentencing indecision he glanced into the courtroom gallery where his parents were seated his tearful mother got up and left the courtroom his father in Ohio Law Enforcement Officer put his head in his hands viner viner pleaded guilty in April two felony charges of conspiracy and obstruction of justice in the hope that he would not be sentenced to prison viner admitted trying to hide his involvement in the two thousand seventeen incident when he realized the antic had gotten someone killed in a brief courtroom statement viner told the judge he is awfully sorry for what happened quote. I never intended for anything to happen. I think of it everyday today prosecutors and defense lawyers in their plea agreement had recommended a sentence of two years on probation with the added condition. They've honor be confined for six months to his home home. Unless attending school work or church they also jointly recommended the gaming restriction but Melbourne said a prison sentence was required to reflect the seriousness of the offense in give the public a sense that the criminal justice system is working. It was foreseeable that something bad could happen by calling an armed police force to respond to what police believe was an escalating situation of violence he said quote we impose sentences not only for what people intend for but what happened Melgren said the death of twenty eight year old Andrew Finch of Wichita talking is this drew national attention swabbing a former retaliation in which someone reports a false emergency authorities particularly swat team to descend on address viner himself self image swatted just twenty days earlier to Kansas incident his defense attorney Jack Morrison. Jr. told the court he said Viner is remorseful. Noting that he lost about twenty pounds in recent months is quote on reflection of the gravity of what occurred as a result of what he believed to be a harmless prank unquote authorities said viner recruited Tyler Barest to swat an opponent then in nineteen year old Shane gaskill in Wichita but the address that used was old leading police to finch who was not involved in the dispute or video game gaskill who had previously sleep giving his old wichita dress to viner was charged as a CO conspirator co-conspirator after knowingly giving bears this same former address and taunting him to quote unquote. Try Something Barris of then twenty five year old Los Angeles main with an online reputation for swatting called police from Los Angeles on December twenty eighth twenty seventeen to falsely reported shooting and kidnapping happing at the Wichita dress. FINCH was shot by police when he opened the door to see what was happening outside. Holy Crap fucked up man. Wow it's one of those I mean we've talked about swatting before. We've talked about the repercussions of it as they've come to see this. It's one of those after agree with the judge if not even more time should be given given to the Catholic more time I mean you're an adult yeah. I would say a few years at least like literally the worst case scenario. I'm totally yeah yeah exactly because it's not it's not even the guy got killed wasn't part of the argument it wasn't part of the B-game just heard commotion outside winning and Got Shot. You know what I mean because the fucking Swat teams on his front lawn or in front of his house where he's his and that's the thing is like such a terrible terrible fucking situation but to get to the sentencing part of it yeah. I feel you have to give a a media hefty sentence to this just to make sure people understand. Don't fucking do this yeah seriously. It's never that serious say like a harmless prank like what are you going to happen when you report a shooting. It's that thing I don't know if you saw it. I don't remember his name dot com slash. You're on the kid who won the fortnight World Cup. Remember the few million dollars whatever and he's like fifteen eighteen. Whatever yeah like two weeks later he got swatted the only reason it didn't go bad right was one of the responding officers like new neighborhood like that's like a coin flip of how bad this stuff can go in the twitch breakouts? You'll see the people get swatted coming back into the house like interiors to talk to the camera they fucking. I remember the one of them. They pointed talking to my sister. You know what I mean like doing like why would it. Why would we keep going like this? leanna this is ridiculous. I think there should be automatic jail time for anybody one hundred percent in a hundred percent and it was Yeah Kyle Gerston bug. That's the one thank you very much your own and not really much to discuss. This is fucked out. This is horrible herbal I would I would be totally on board with more prison time forever. I'm awfully sorry fuck. You guys dead twenty pounds yeah okay. It was not on the Internet yeah number four. Let's cleanse your pallet with some stats from tweets Daniel Ahmad. you know an analyst we talked about here at Z. Huge had some numbers he put up on twitter over the weekend on number one is this playstation four sell through in the US is now surpassed thirty million with the market accounting for approximately thirty percent of total playstation four sales other top markets include Japan with eight point three million Germany seven point two million and UK with six point eight eight million step your game up UK expected more from me you know thirty million thirty percent of the sales all in the US for remember. Do you remember ps three three sixty generation. We're like I'm an probably one more generation and it's all going to go completely over yet arisen rolling in money making those happen around the Microsoft side not causal sales commod had this to say we're now two point where package sales in the UK for Microsoft titles are a tiny amount that are no longer important in its first week gears of war three times more package units than gears of war five and years of wars four sold four point five times more digital download and game pass are the majority by far this leads to from the NATO biologists and he wrote into Patriots Dot com slash kind of funny games and says UK sales numbers are in gears five has done very poorly with physical sales compared to gears for. Is this a cause for alarm for xbox. Is this the final nail in the xbox one x coffin or is this a sign that game pass slash game pass Pc. ABC's and digital are starting to really be the brunt of sales gear. Five is the Second First Party game to be released day and date on game pass but it also seemed to be much more anticipated than Forza horizon for an from the sound of a game pass is why people are giving gears a shot especially with the two dollars for two months deal. That's going on at the time of release. Do you think this report the fiscal numbers will continue to occur much more frequently. How did you think and PD numbers will handle years in game? Pass release numbers in the grand scheme of things so it doesn't seem like xbox is just failing compared to playstation four game sales so it's breaking down all right mega yeah. Are you worried for the health of xbox for Microsoft with these gears. Five numbers not feeling physically I don't know I'm a little worried yeah but I mean the numbers in comparison to playstation are not not great but I don't think I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon so I'm not necessarily worried like it's about the over like the going belly yep but I do think the game has a lot to do with it and and I think that a good thing it was a good way to get people into it. It's a huge title but it's interesting to think that what was it five four point five more times gears award sold then five Twenty Times more twenty times now of of course different oral different times in your wrong some information coming in at jump in here matinees guitar and other analysts we talk about all the time here says this player counts two times gears of war four at three million so it's in terms of package gears sold four point five times more however in terms of player counts. It's up. It's doubling what's double gears for. Did you write that's big data important. You want people playing the game so my whole thing about this is I this is to be expected. We had a conversation last week right of does NPD really matter anymore. It's a nice thing for us to talk about on the show. I'm sure it's a nice bellwether to see how things are in terms of popularity but as we move more and more digital future and subscription services. NPD becomes more and more data yeah. I don't think it matters as much anymore. Like your question here right. An anthropologist is like what what are we gonNA handle those numbers. APD Won't handle it but Microsoft will continue to do this right in our go. The Microsoft wire thanks to the incredible support from our fans gears five kicked off off the holiday season strong attracting over three million players in its opening weekend setting new records for xbox game pass they go xbox knew what they were doing. When they put their games day and date on on game pass the first party stuff in the idea was there to get you in because sure they can get you for sixty dollars on one game or they can get you for two bucks for the first two months but ten dollars a month right for how many exactly is this that thing it's I I have who for handmaid's tale and I never watch anything else on it but I rarely early remember to cancel who sits there getting them money oh more and more exactly and as we get into it? That's what it's going to be about for them and I think how you NPD number that'll be something I'm sure playstation and certain games will beat their chest about to show it but Microsoft will continue to tout their own horn in come out and say this right. This is what's happening. This is the real thing happening opening with with physical music sales. I remember them. almost like calling it a disappointment. When a certain artist A buggy put out an album? They're like Oh it only soda hundred physical copies in the first week and had like twenty million streams right so it's like all right. It's time to think about these sales number metrics metrics don't matter you have to understand like how you're comparing in what you're talking about and that's the thing is I I it will be interesting in the long run. You know game passes still a gamble for xbox. They are doing in a very different way. We look at playstation playstation now playstation five like are they going to try to do something convenient level when they don't have to. I think the one that has to be crazy and has to be bold and has to make these moves and again. It's getting you to subscribe a game pass and even if you're just using it once every three months but you're paying them every every month. Let alone that if one day they do want to break off and go away from the console it's on. I'm sure they'd love to get an on switch with streaming X. Cloud next generation is going to be the most was fascinated generation in a long time of how do we launch and what is everybody saying absolutely I digress. Guess what that wasn't the only. Let's talk stats via tweets thing I had for you. Raise PITCHFORD tweeted tweeted over the weekend Friday fun fact this is him outside on Friday he tweeted fun fact on ABC. The data is that the launch day peak concurrent players of borderlands three is about twice as hi is all time peak concurrent players for borderlands two wow you guys are great. Then Sunday another tweet somehow today's concurrent players player numbers are higher than in yesterday's record breaking numbers this greatly exceeds expectations and our systems seem to be holding strong. Wow interesting wrinkle again of course because this is another one of they went to the the EPA game store and people were like not happy about that as people are often not happy about the game but you see people are playing important are you. Borderlands Person Not really yeah. I played a little bit of the first one m a second one but yeah I just didn't have enough time to jump into to share but I would be open to jumping back. Go Okay Yeah we we played all week in either. I kept up with that place Jim but it was a good time had by all of course I remember the borderland show the the show were pretty four. It's UK of course grain of salt with my opinions of liking the game but this week on YouTube dot com slash borderlands game but I'll I'll tell you what that premiere of the show Mega Wednesday is still so far away. If I wanted to go somewhere and get some more immediate information like say what came to the mom and pop shop Karan. Where would I go well? The official lists of upcoming software across each and every platform listed by the kind of Funny Games daily show hosts each and every weekday type theory cajal. I forgot to prepare you for that. I it out today. Messier a low poly puzzling exploration game that puts quits players in the shoes of new me. A girl forced to leave her house in Syria with her grandmother. Yara is out on playstation for digitally the end of age. Fading remnants is on a cash path of the five is on switch which are come if my God is on pc gravitron my favorite ride from the carnival is on PC and Mac apparently don't give up a cynical tails on PC and Mac hope for city is on Solitaire Legend of the pirates is on PC and Mac and frenzy plant is on pc new dates for you. Retro Space Shooter Have Roxie Launch Nintendo switch ps four and playstation Vita lives this September iron judgment is coming to gwen playstation four and Xbox one on October second twenty thousand nine cricket through the ages is coming to apple arcade. I tweeted the trailer they sent me. It looks ridiculous and and the right there there's my five dollars for Apple. Okay then I kind of funny games showcase alum reading rush is finally polished and approved and it will be coming out on September twenty four twenty nine hundred dead spawn a fast pace arena shoot them up with building mechanics developed by the independent and self financed Studio Yeezy Games deadspin has road like elements laments and heavily inspired by box head zombies dead small everywhere in the World September twentieth two thousand nineteen four steam then democracy reports were released the switch versions of dragging agan cool or switch versions of Dragon Quest Drank quest to luminaries of the legendary line and drank the seeds of salvation via the Nintendo e shop in the West has deigned date with the Japanese release on September twenty seventh and finally you can officially America you can play the neo to open Beta starting starting November first through the tenth will be available to the store. It's a lot of stuff. They're not wanting reader mail. You can ride into Patriot dot com slash kind of funny any games where you can get the show ad free speaking of as this episode of the kind of Funny Games daily is brought to you. I kinda funny dot com slash pack tournament. We actually put up the packs tournament the Inter site championship in which Allen Rubens gets his head or gets his head busted open by candle. No what is it a white cloth getting thrown right into his head bounced off his hands mega hit him right the head head of wide open mic and watch in horror. The whole thing happened. You can wash now kind of funny dot com slash packs tournament. There's also much games we play sonic at the Olympics Olympics the Olympics. There's also bodily harm daleks ruins the rams so if you WANNA check that check that out. Let's get you some questions so let's do this. What happened readily? What's going on? Oh something's phone is this information. I need to know okay. This information is information. You need to know what's happening or what don't tell me. I'm trying to make sure everything you know what again we understand that this is a different kind of show today. Nobody's mad. He's my twitter token. Everybody sitting there. It's done Koy. NC writes in the Patriot dot com slash kinda funny games is hey greg and Megan Iran prince. He's happy to have you on the show mega last week Greg Tim mentioned how they were were mentioned how there are quite a few big games on the horizon that snuck up on him. Star Wars jet iphone order was the example us but we have POK mon sort and Chu Siu demata warfare the our world death stranding all on the way before Christmas followed faulk quickly by Animal Crossing cyberpunk twenty seventy seven final fantasy seven remake in watchdogs three. This is an amazing lineup of games but Walter only so big and gamers only have have so much time in the day. If you're going to predict which games we're going to meet or rise above expectations in which teams are going to fall short. Which would you put your money on? Which Games do you do? You think are going to be great but won't get a chance to shine because of the stiff competition interesting question Meghan and isn't it says you see we have star wars. We have pokemon the show modern warfare. We've outer world death stranding right. I don't even WANNA get into next year. Let's just stick with that all right. Let alone animal crossing cyberpunk mobile so from from that one and I heard to say but I bet and I don't know how what they expect. There's always the thing you're working on the publisher developer. What is your expectation? How many units do you have to red cell the break even to provide? I worry that poor. They're of outer worlds yeah. I can't wait for our world. I'm playing Borland's right now. Get a funny question chocolate at my on the worlds coming up and that's the thing is going to be choice and this that and the other yeah that would be my pick too. I think that the speaking about sales wise not necessarily about if the game is going to be good enough to meet up to your expectations so these Games are great yeah if they're all great sales numbers I would say outer world might suffer the most being impact packaged in with all these big big titles around that same time and then from yeah and next year. I think watchdogs three yeah yeah I feel like cyberpunk. cyberpunk is going to get all the attention and crossing over here final fantasy. Seven People Love Insulin Yeah watchdogs lesion which I'm stoked about. I love watchdogs and I think it looks really cool. I still worry about messaging that game. You know what I mean like. There's no protagonists the protagonist whoever you wanted to yeah which is cool but it also then is going to be hard for people to connect with from a trailer because the trailer like all these different people in greenies and stuff like who are we relating to exactly exactly as a watchdogs fan boy. I'm super excited about it but we'll have to see and again. These are all assuming these are games like I'm not saying it's a quality she was much as a messaging issue and competition. Yeah stiff stiff competition there there you go. Everybody Marion said it himself. Don't buy out a world's or watch them took this is one. That's a a question that requires you to know things so at the end we put the knowing of the things we're start with Geoffrey Pilon who wrote a the patriotic dot com slash kind of funny games good Morning Greg and mega ran in practice. It's really cool to see on the show Mega. I'm sure you've seen the news about Kyuko. I'm going to say how you'd say Q. U. Q. U. C. Oh yeah Argonne kyuko being suspended from twitch for sexually suggestive content activities. Did you see this. I did okay sounded ridiculous. Let's give more I didn't. I didn't see the stream but just from the screen shot on Cacao. It doesn't seem bad at all in my humble opinion. There is nothing centralized about that outfit. I get why these guidelines are in place. We've seen egregious offenders vendors on twitch before but I don't think Kyuko is one of them. Am I just taking crazy pills year or am I missing something here. We're going to jump into the article. Cecilia wrote got it over. I'm going to just re snippets from an of course go support. Our Cuba was a small streamer who often draws pictures from her favourite gaming franchises live on twitch yesterday she he was wearing Chung lease a signature blue blue. How would I said Cuckoo cuckoo capacity and bunkers and soon after she received you've noticed a three day suspension for sexually suggestive content or activities according to an email from twitch posted to the ad features a high thigh slit that sometimes is considered risque quote? I actually bought one size up to ensure. The slit wasn't too high said Cuco in an e mails Kentucky. The slit of this dresses cut lower than some runners shorts I own the video in question has since been removed so it's difficult to tell if there was a particular moment that may have been flagged by twitch twitch did not respond to requests for comment by the time of publication sure twitch previous leases Benkoe after she calls played May Sharinau from King of fighters cue co wrote on twitter that she was banned because because of because because she was report brigade by the popular suburb at livestream fail quote I was sexually harass. She wrote in Natalie tweet. All I wore was a make is is play while I was drawing. CUCO believes this recent suspension was also due to quote a group of trolls who have been targeting me for master targeting me for mass reporting for a while. I am immediately reported because I've been branded a thought pronounced that right thought pat. She said adding that she doesn't do physical activities like squatting or dancing onstream Sudoku saw one now remove comment from livestream on livestream fail in which a user said quote L. M. A. O. saw her streaming again today. Instantly reported the thought although we weren't able confirm whether she was brigade now back to Jeffrey's email right it just blows me out to see a fan of a fan doing something that comes from a place of passion Russian and getting punished for because of mass reporters by angry Internet mobs but hey maybe she should just change your mo to streaming porno like on channel. I hear that's okay to do these days. Thanks taught thoughts Jeffrey. Thanks every it does sound like she's being attacked like it's it's happened before from from this report. She got a previous suspension for the other cost. Play right so I I don't. I don't understand twitches reasoning his the photo okay so we don't show it. If it's getting pan for we might get bad. I mean you in this of course one of the I don't WanNa say many but it's one of the things that happens right that I don't have is because I don't I don't know Cuco. Obviously you're looking at this shot that you can go down Kentucky when see right now again like what a higher Thi- I don't even think that's the issue I it does sound like the issue. Is that if she wears a costume the people mass reported it flags which things she gets band right down. There wasn't a person at twitch looking at and doing this and that's that's the the shitty thing about it where the Sig- with me stick with me everybody is that there's a flaw in the system that clearly and they need to plug but so you would say probably right that the system works I mean she got band or whatever she got at least punished for the last one when she was right but she was previously suspended it doesn't talk about the part I have here doesn't say if she was reinstated just over time or if it was because nobody somebody twitch Saad right like if right now. She has a three day suspension so maybe okay. There's a picture of this wait a minute. This is a different guy got her band. Okay Okay Okay so you don't show this one because right this is this is a little much. I mean okay. She's leased camera. It's a very low cut out. There's also there's a lot of underwear being the other king of fighters thing right yeah. I don't know yeah but I mean I don't know. This is whoever fighting fighting games daily has twitchy Makiko got banned from twitch for showing her underwear most Perot. I'm sorry frenzies most probably there isn't a response from her. Yes we can't really clarify mm-hmm yeah like I mean this is what Cecelia's article talks about as well is that twitches rules and regulations about what is sexually explicit is pretty vague yeah so it is that thing of you drowsy. You're touching the electric fence I guess in figuring out what is in it yeah and if she's been previously flagged yeah. You know you gotTa know that you're when you're on thin ice. Yeah gotta be extra and that would be the thing is like the Kentucky again a photo they have ever in the Chung outfit. You would think looking at that again as Celia Huey points and I want to give hats off to see reporting on the issue where she is very much like hey. This is what she's saying is happening. We can't verify these certain parts of it but we're telling you what it actually looks like I would say the Chung outfit doesn't cross the line or doesn't skate along the way the other after we just saw desert. We didn't see we didn't see the video we see happening. I the thing about back to it is if it is just a bunch of people trolling or whatever and getting ban I was going back system working of its it works in the way all right well this person and that sucks right now it is that there's an there's cacao article about it or if you which will lead to you hope a follow up from twitch. That's going to say hopefully yes. Yes no whatever but and it's only three days. They didn't delete her account. They like you know ban her completely hopefully they will go back through it and review it yeah exactly and that's it's what you hope happens in. Y You know again it'd be like why does real journalism and games matter because they'd fucking guess lobotomies Shit like this so it isn't just see the headline because again the first after we saw actually understand maybe why the line again are vague policy from twitch. I'M NOT GONNA sit here and be the guy who was like yes or no in terms of what's okay or not a twitch because one time I put my logo getting fucked by another logo and we got in trouble. You know what I mean. You can't show even a drawing of opinion. It's going into the Kinda funny mouth. That's I tell you freedom of sweet wasted bandwidth right saying the Patriot dot com slash kinda funny games and says important date in history the Simpson's hit and run terms sixteen today it's now old enough to get a driver's permit in the US round of applause that sixteen you can get your license. I thought I got my license. Sixteen really thought it was a permit depends a fifteen eleanor way when I was growing up fifteen if you get the permanent sixteen get licensed okay. I didn't get mine like eighteen anyway. I was on the bus. Why why why didn't you want to get a license? Because the bus went everywhere I was yeah okay because hang on the back of the buzz and be cool mega squad up all right. This is where one of you writes a Patriot dot com slash kind of funny games giving me your name username platform with choice and why you need help video game. I read it here. The best friends come and find. You and everybody has fun together today. Drew help you actually didn't go the normal way he tweeted me and I thought I'd help map drew said at game over Greg. I need some help in borderlands. I've been skipped ahead by a bug and missed all the story on Athena's. I don't want to miss out I'm asking you best friends and discord but in a signal boost please help OBI Wan Greg. You're my only hope if you are still playing through borderlands and you would like to play withdrew especially when you get to the Athena's area him up playstation four he's in the eastern time zone his is drew underscore sixty four. That's Ru Tengo like Nintendo Ndo underscore sixty four you got it you get it John Endo get through tender very catchy. Jump into your wrong. Find out what we did wrong as we did it wrong so we can set the record straight for every watching it on youtube dot com slash kind of funny games Roussy Dot Com podcasters around the globe all pokemon stuff about them arguing about what he's one and what he hasn't hasn't won. We're not going to get into that. You can tweet it all the Barrett Imran's his Barris who made the call this is from the the swatting story also charged with bomb threats and harassing female streamers and candidate of it so that just seems like a great guy wait was did he get any time. There was one last week to a guy and the you the first guy who got the fifteen months as the next guy to swat the Guy Right. That's what happened so the guy he called. I wonder what his penalty was. Let me check it. NCI There was one that happened yesterday and then I I'm sorry yesterday last week and then I think this was the follow up to it so I was hoping between winner happened control been spell the still misspelling. There's yeah I don't see how the man who made the call Tyler Barisa California's sentence earlier this year to twenty years in federal prison they go. They're out there. It's back to your church to two calls me on my shade Greg Friendly Reminder that Apple Arcade PL- plus is free for the first month. You don't need to pay five dollars for cricket through the Grain Point but you understood the Senate behind sediment sensing he would still give them money. 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PS4 Sales Are Insane - Kinda Funny Games Daily 01.08.19

Kinda Funny Games Daily

54:30 min | 2 years ago

PS4 Sales Are Insane - Kinda Funny Games Daily 01.08.19

"What's good and welcome to kinda funny gains daily for Tuesday, January eighth? I'm Andrea Rene alongside the verified one Tim gettys, very good to be back with you. I haven't spent a while. Been that long. It's been since last year. It does feel like it's been extensively long break. It's been on the show for two three weeks something like that ready to ready for a good one. Yeah. I am looking forward to the new ten AM timeslot first day got to hear a little bit later that I wanted to. To give you drive up. I hit that morning rush hour traffic here in the bay area. So thanks for that. I appreciate that. It's all for the wonderful children that are watching. So of course, if you guys really quick Kevin Veselin heads up. We should have a conversation about what time coming in. 'cause you got very lucky today. No, I texted. Tim ahead of time to be like somebody gonna be about coming in. Yeah. I learned that because he showed up seven minutes before we were supposed to go live to be taken care of. But to be clear, I heard you guys talking yesterday saying you're going to be here at nine. Yeah. It was all perfect storm. I think any of it was a purpose. Or maybe since I've been here for a long time. Now, you could trust me with a key. It was something about. I want everyone to have keys you get a key. We're gonna kill Barrett. Abachi? I hope I do. I somehow got myself in here today. I kevin. Is there anything else that you would like to tell me before I can continue on with the show that we're doing right now? Stove today. Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, shall we start over? I don't get into the flow. You can do you get into the rigmarole? Okay. The rigmarole. This is kind of funny games. Daily your source for nerdy. Video game news in the morning each and every weekday here at YouTube dot com slash kind of any games. Twitch TV slash kind of funny games or on podcast services around the world. If you guys want to be part of the show, you go to patriot dot com slash kind of any games. And join that bronze tier that's all it takes and you can submit your questions each and every weekday don't forget, it's just like old times we need you guys to come back every day. The we're on the show and submit your questions, and because we are, you know, have a little bit of a smaller pool of people. We can take some extra time to read through some questions. So sweet nasty time. Also with the silver. You can get the show adversary. That's a whole fun thing. The reason we're doing this. It's kind of funny is fourth anniversary. We've been doing fundraising thing we did along livestream. The entire month of January all the money. We make on patriots dot com slash kind of funny or page on kind of funny games. Additional in the month. January. We'll go towards all of our funding for our shows and content. The first half twenty nineteen and a whole bunch of meet and greets and stuff where well on our way towards our goal of going to London, which is really crazy and really cool. So thank you very much fraud support today, we brought to you by quip in hymns. But we'll talk to you about that later for now. Let's get into what is and forever will be the rope report. They did it in his hand. They did it in his hand. Oh, interesting. I don't know how I feel about that Rovers. Ever. It was my first one I was nervous better. We'll pull up some old school audio files for you to take some notes from. I feel like we're just like let's try to get through this. It's a beautiful Tuesday morning. It's going to be great exactly that news. How many stores we got? We got three items on their over report. Up. Baker's dozen fact senior nail in it. Okay. I like that I up PlayStation. Four sales have surpassed ninety one point six million units worldwide after the strong holiday season Jesus Christ. That's so many seen and there's so many more cool numbers in here. This press release was sent directly from Sony interactive entertainment last evening, and they say that they have announced their new sales milestone for the PS four cumulatively sold through more than ninety one point six million units globally as of December thirty first two thousand eighteen within the above number. Yeah. I mean seriously, that's a really impressive PS four has sold through more than five point six million units globally clearly during the. Eighteen holiday season, specifically more overthrew. I love these are sold through numbers. They're not just any weird ask blown up like averages of they're putting out there to make things sound deceiving. They're like, no, motherfuckers ninety one point six million units have been sold yet. And so the reason we got these numbers just you guys are aware is because the consumer electronic show is happening this week in Las Vegas. This was part of Sony's. Kevin's like carnival dream show. When's the last time you went to see ES? Oh, my guys. Can we like Sartre a go fund me to bring Kevin to see ES next year? Let's let's put it on the funny. Five point. Probably be happening during five point. Oh. We can go afterwards. It'll be great. Moreover, more than fifty point seven million PS four games were sold through globally during the two thousand eighteen holiday season, which sums up to eight hundred seventy six million PS, four games cumulatively sold through worldwide as of December thirty first twenty eighteen that is a staggering number almost one billion PS four games cumulatively sold marvel Spiderman which we already know had a great fall launched in September has sold through more than nine million copies worldwide as of November twenty fifth now, it's interesting that they don't include the December sales number, and I'm not quite sure why because they're in the other numbers because I have to imagine during Christmas gift giving right? Well, through November twenty four th would cover black Friday. Yes. Black friday. I believe was November twenty six. Well on don't Yong-Nam literally number twenty third November. Okay. Cool. So would count that. Oh sirens. Nine million copies of Spiderman sold like that is really putting the game in almost an upper another echelon when it comes to first party titles, especially given. It's only been three months. Right. Absolutely. Imagine. What that game's going to end up in a couple of years like that. So this means that it's already outsold God of war. But that's to be expected. Given the the rating of 'em on God of war enter into that having also man versus, you know, Crato says the character's mean Spiderman is always going to out sell because it's your man, you're of the Spiderman. Yeah. Well, Sony announced earlier this year that it is the number one selling PlayStation exclusive game of all time. So big upset insomniac games and marvel for doing such a fantastic stellar job with that mean, nothing, but good things to say about Spiderman, and if you haven't checked it out yet, and you own a PlayStation for can't tell you how much you play the highest selling. Position title of all time was that just first month's sales or was that total total. Is it really? Yeah. Exclusive? That's the key use of. Yeah. Okay. Man. That's not because even rising and those things on chart in those were in the eight around eight so. Yeah. On million man, spider man, beat them. I love see. Here's a here's why these numbers are important. They're important because the more consoles are out there. The more money can be made from games. More games can be made at bigger budgets, and like more correctly, those there's so much. It's just good for the economy of the industry that we're in absolutely sales from a game like Spiderman or sales from a game. Like God for help fund games like dreams. My because we know that dreams is never gonna come close to these numbers because of the type of game it is. But it's such an amazing piece of art and doing something credibly innovative that I love that Sony's willing to take a risk to propel that art forward, and they can do it because of the successes of. Doc BUSTER games like Spiderman and on the flip side of that. This also proves that it's worth investing in high quality super high budget, single player games like God of war and Spiderman. Get out of here that nonsense about single player is dead. Every time somebody brings that up. I'm like you're crazy solution for dude. Exactly. So John cadavre made a statement. Of course, he's the president and CEO of Sony, interactive entertainment. He said, thanks for the continued support from our fans during the holiday season, we are pleased to announce the PS four has reached ninety one point six million units globally. We are also happy to announce the monthly active users of the PlayStation network continues to show strong growth and has surpassed ninety million as the end of November twenty eighteen I would like to express my deepest gratitude to our passionate community around the globe and our partners for helping us achieve these milestones. This year. We will bring more enhanced experiences to our fans along with highly anticipated lineup of games that are only possible on PS four as we look toward the next PS for milestone, sl will continue to evolve we will further expand the platform to deliver the best interactive entertainment experiences to the world with a couple of people right in. Of course. The patriot dot com slash kind of any games Mustafa. Right. Pillow Timothy Andrea yesterday Sony announced the PS four sold over ninety one million units. So my question is do you think people in the media are not giving the PS four the credit that it deserves for example last month? There was articles everywhere about how the switch is the fastest selling council and the big winner November. When in reality the PS four a five year old council has out sold the switch almost every month, including November throughout the year. So what does the fastest selling council mean if you are still outsold by the competition every time anyway, I'm not hating unintended? I just want the PS four to get the credit. It truly deserves. In my opinion. It's not like it's a competition of headlines where it's like just because people are saying the switches doing well, it doesn't mean they're not also saying that the PlayStation four is doing. Well, I feel like for every headlined the says that there is a headline that says the opposite. So I I'm with you there. I think it's less about putting down, PlayStation, Nintendo and more about celebrating both of them. And because the PlayStation has been doing so well for so long it's becoming a little bit of a tired news story. So from that, perspective, Nintendo. Switch kind of being the new hotness on the council scene. Even though it's been out for a while. Now just makes for a better talking point overall. I think it's also more about the context of the timeframe brave of one it's been out and how fast it selling is really important. So I think that's being compared to the PlayStation four's earlier days. Right. So why not Pete also wrote in and says with Sony announcing the PS four sales numbers to put those numbers into context. I skipped the first part of his because he. Going over the numbers again to put those numbers in the context. This is more than the police each in three sold across its entire run, which was eighty three point eight million and more than PlayStation two sold in its first five years, which was eighty seven point five million. Do you think the PlayStation four will go on to match? The PlayStation two's staggering lifetime sales up one hundred and fifty five million or will sales begin to taper off before them. And actually, it's one hundred fifty eight million lifetime sales for the PlayStation two last couple of years. I didn't please. Let's let's take it back a bit. I think it'll outdo the we which was that. I haven't here. One hundred one point six three million councils, and it's currently the number five bestselling game of all time with the PlayStation for poised to overtake them. I think that's guaranteed. Playstation, two's going to be hard because PlayStation, two you had so many benefits going into it of it being. Everyone's first DVD player. Having said that we had a lot of things going forward to a lot of talk about it being like this console that everybody owned and truly everybody owned it. Even if you weren't a gamer PlayStation four, I just feel like I feel like we're at the point. Now, we've grown so much from the the we generation which was oh, hey, even grandmas playing the game to now everyone plays games. You know, it's like I feel like we were closer to the word game are going away than we ever have been because we don't call people movie watchers people watch movies. I think that eventually maybe not next generation maybe the generation after that, we're not gonna have to identify as gamers should be people play games. That's just the thing. I love your optimism. I really hope that that's true. I don't think we're quite there yet. But I agree with you that the PlayStation two came onto the scene in an era where it didn't have as much competition and also had an amazing set of technical features. So that couple really propelled it to that staggering success and a ridiculous library first party and third party party even back, then just. Constant constant constant games coming out and PlayStation, two like Sony going into that generation. They were just like, yeah, we motherfucking got this XBox had something to prove Nintendo was like an that was when things got real rocky for them for the first time. So they kind of just rocked the hell at generation, and then total the drop of all the PS thirty bucks. What's different about today's landscape, most notably versus the we are the PS two era is mobile gaming, and the rise of mobile gaming, and how that's really transformed the way that people look a game. So you have some people on the periphery that maybe aren't investing in a council the way that they used to because they're older maybe they have kids they have job commitments. And they're like, hey, I can't spend the time to sit down on my couch and play council, but I can play my phone while I'm on the go. So that has also split the market as well. But congratulations to Sony interactive for these fantastic numbers. I have no doubt that at this time next year. We're going to get some more impressive numbers after their holiday season. Coupled to bring a before we move on. Sure. Junker says this year, we will bring more enhance experiences for fans along with the highly anticipated line of games that are only possible on PlayStation, four not that there's any real surprises here. But we don't know the lineup for twenty nineteen. We don't know any single game really besides days gone. Well, they also announced dreams for twenty nine thousand nine they didn't give us a specific date, but they gave us a year. And hopefully, they'll stick to that game has been in development for a really long time. I guess that's enough to call it an anticipated lineup. But I feel like this is hinting at at least one of the big three of death stranding last of us or go to Shema which of those three do you think could maybe be a surprise released this year? I wouldn't be surprised if any of them did I don't expect any of them to goes through Shema. I I feel like that's the biggest wildcard I wear. I feel we don't know how far along that game is right as they haven't really talked about it too much. Last of us. I have a feeling is a lot farther along than people expect. But I think that that game's going to be much more strategic release when it comes to the PlayStation fives play of this all I still think that the game's going to be playable on both systems. And that's the biggest question Mark of them. All. Tomorrow. The game could never come out. I don't know. But the speed of the game. I know I'm going off tangent on tangent tangent. Here I was thinking about this a couple of days ago middle your solid five like is a game that I don't think about enough anymore because when it comes down to it. It is one of the greatest video games of all time from game play perspective story bat shit stupid. It was dumb. I hated it. So many things about that name didn't like but the game play the loop everything about that ten out of ten to me. And I feel like we're going to look back more fondly on that game than we have in the last couple of years, and is a tangent. Indeed. I don't know how we ended up going. There is like I have faith in depth stranding stranding looks fussing teams. Whatever Kajima does do you think will be good? I think that there is at as weird as it looks at as little sense as it might make the game. I have a lot of faith that the game's going to be really good. But I could be real I let's hope so let's all cross our fingers that it's going to be a glorious mad. And the last thing I want to do before take a bet. Oh, okay. Do you think PS four will outsell the PlayStation two? No neither. But for sake of the bet, I think it's going to let's say what it. Who are you going out there believing? Well, then, you know, I'm saying you, I don't think it's going to say will you saying it will what would you like to bet? What are the terms of the bed? Yeah. But like how many years down the road from now do I have to come back to collect my pizza that I've won a good point. I guess five years. I'll give it five years. Okay. You'll still be my friend and Friday. Yeah. Clip this out. Okay. Thank you. Thank you gonna owe. Me a pizza and five years in five years PlayStation, four while saw the PlayStation two. Okay. I don't think so next story resident evil twos. Remake is getting a one shot demo that lets you play the game for just thirty minutes. This right of comes from surreal Vasquez over at game. Informer Capcom has announced demo for resident evil two is coming this Friday, but you're not going to want to screw around in this one the one shot demo for resident evil too which hits on PS four Xbox One NPC and January eleventh and expires on January thirty first how'd you plan as Liam as he arrives at raccoon city police station in the ultimate worst first day on the job? You have thirty minutes to mow down a few solve a few puzzles and get out of the station. Here's the catch. Once the timer expires you can't play the demo anymore. If you die during the demo you're free to restart, but that timer carries over between tries. If you beat the demo you're free to run through it again until the timer expires. But a sensibly. Those thirty minutes are all you have beating the demo. Also nets you what Capcom is calling an exclusive trailer only for those who finish the demo. You can watch the trailer as many times as you want resident evil two is out January twenty fifth on PS four XBox on N P C got one shot up to most forgetting I am now. The sounds like it makes sense based on the title of it being one shot demo. This sounds like it's the same demo we played it. He three it does sound like that demo was time to thirty minutes. So they just took the bills and put the code out on the internet. Exciting stuff for people. I'm not replaying this again now, I know is is like champion bits. Trailer. Yeah. So he's ready. We're so close to that. And then four days later. It's real. Are you kingdom hearts for it? No. But I really do want to check out. Okay. Arthur played kmarts too. I won't point to capture of stuff. Good. So I played the entirety of that. So I'm kind of caught up. Not really no one's ever really a bunch of people on my friends list over the weekend. Playing kingdom hearts like one point five. Yeah. Gotta get ready. Goofy is up to exactly getting getting warmed up. Story. Three blizzard has quietly confirmed. Another LGBTQ overwatch hero this right of comes from Ashley over at polygon in a new short story, titled bast blizzard entertainment confirms that soldier Seventy-six. Aka Jack Morrison is the second LGBTQ character in the overwatch universe. Former sniper on it comes across a wounded social seventy six in the streets of Cairo and takes him back to her hideout. It's the first time they've been reunited since the explosion rocked the overwatch headquarters in Switzerland. Neither of them knew the other one was alive for sure. Until now, she catches a glimpse of him going through photos and sees an old one of him with the dark haired man named Vincent. The announcement comes a little over two years after an overwatch comic revealed tracer spending Christmas with her girlfriend. Emily, however, we did a closer look at the same comic. We can make out a panel of soldier looking at what appears to be the same photograph reference in the Bassett story outside the cinematics is the first big chunk of overwatch lower players have gotten in a while. And also the first time we've seen anything about. Soldiers personal life, and a little update to this story a tweet because of course, you know, the internet was ablaze after this came out a tweet from lead writer, Michael CHU confirmed that yes soldier identifies as gay. He said, quote, Jack and Vincent we're in a romantic relationship many years ago both identify as gay. I think that the overwatch law is so cool. I love what they're doing with all the animated movies that they are animated shorts today. They drop constantly throughout the years. I just love this like cool narrative that they have going just never going to stop. And I can't wait till we get like a Pixar ask overwatch movie. Subaru and I'm talking about. I just love that. There's representation why not exactly you have a cast of characters that large. It's not a surprise a couple of gay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Totally. I think overwatch is Ben one of the industry leaders in diversity and representation particularly in a combat multi-player game. We tend to see representation more in more narrative focus stories, and that's what I really love about. What Blitzer has done with this game? Clearly their community loves it. Now is there are people on the internet that are very upset about this and got their paintings all in a bunch. Of course, there are, but I would say to you. Hey will soldier Seventy-six does when he's not on the field. Probably doesn't concern. You know, like who he loves not your business story for you. This was a little there's a weird one. But I feel like there's a good end to the story. Yes. Tell me there's this guy that I knew in high school didn't go to high school with me. But I knew him from the internet. Like, you know, that's just the thing that we do shortens does. And. He seemed like a cool, dude. But then eventually I started seeing him spewing a lot of vitriol. And I was like, Ooh, I need to separate from this guy. Because he was the only person I've ever known to actually be homophobic and use homophobic slurs against gay people. Yeah. Now, you got to axe him. And like I did stop talking that. He was not like we were not ever friends to begin with. But the moral of the story is we're still Facebook friends to this day and yesterday I saw him pop up on my feed. And I was like that's weird. Like some what's up and I click on it in a relationship with the guy. Full bunch of pictures of him and his boyfriend and then like whole paragraph. That was just like, hey, I feel bad for a lot of things that I've done in my life. And I. You really was resenting. What was inside me? And all of a sudden it was like, oh my God. This is some real real dark Chit. You know, it just sucks that we live in a world where people are afraid to be themselves. And I think that things like this really are going to help the future generations not be like that. I am with you, Tim, I really hope that that's the case too. And it's it's kind of a tragic thing that happened with your friend and how he mistreated others. But I'm glad that he's turned over a new leaf end has rediscovered that it's okay to love who you love you love, man. Love is love exactly that is going to wrap it up for the Roper report this morning because there's a bunch of tweets over on Kukuh about reactions to this. And some of them are actually pretty funny. If you guys want to check out the internet reacts to soldier Seventy-six in his ex boyfriend you can head on over to taco dot com. Check those out his exploit. But Tim, it might be some time before the entire world understands the concept of love is love if we wanted something that was a little bit more immediate like what's coming to mom and grab shots today. Where would I go official list of upcoming software across each and every platform as listed by the kind of money games daily show host each and every weekday do do do do do do do do. Nice work there at your on top of it out today. Just one lonely game megaliths PS VR and PS four zero. I heard that's that's got to be a first, but she's something came to the app store or something not worth playing. All right, new dates dead or alive. Six has been delayed to March. I sew I writes that they've been delayed and developer team ninja announced the fighting game was originally set to released on February fifteenth. And according to team ninja the extra two weeks will be used to further enhance and balance dead or alive. Six game director and producer Yohei's Schambori apologized for the inconvenience caused the delay. He added the titles development is already near complete. However, we would like to take more time to further polish, it's balanced, gameplay and expressively. How about the boot physics? We commit to bringing you the best dinner live. Also in my favorite stories in the last couple of days was the double mate cry. Dick physics conundrum. No, I didn't everybody that was a gif of Dante. And he does this like magic thing. And then it looks like his dick just like jiggles and his pants. Ended up saying was saying, but then ended up being like magic like whatever spell cast. He's got a magic day. He got the magic stick. No. It was he was doing a fire blasts or some shit and the like pulse. Like just looked like that amazing. But hey, man, we can pry dick physics one day. Although I don't think they'd be that impressive. You know what I mean? Like, if I'm being honest. I don't think many characters are going to have impressive enough, dick. So they can have jiggled it's noticeable through jeans. Showers real hard. For anyone to see anything really devolved into. Richard. Good time doesn't like six. Dead or alive. Six is such a mind. Fuck to me because I'm like, okay. First off that gives not out yet and second that game. Still coming out like I loved dead or alive three and dead or alive. One was like a fun novelty back like back in the day at some point my all, right? Where does this game fit in? The pantheon of fighting games that we have now in Japan, if it squarely in Japan, and I think that that's clearly where their biggest audiences they obviously have audiences around the globe. But it's one of those more cult favorite games that doesn't need to sell even two or three million copies in order to keep getting funded. So character was back live three when he would start his batch. She would do this little dance ago. It's bitching. Like, all right. That guy is my guess. Tropico six has also been delayed to March publisher calypso media announced that is giving developer Olympic more time to incorporate fan feedback into areas such as multiplayer as it moves into a new release date of March twenty ninth deals of the day. Big brain on Brad wrote into patriot dot com slash kind of funny games and said deal the day, blood, sweat and pixels. Jason Trier's book is on sale in the digital formats Amazon's kindle Barnes and nobles nook and Google plays e book for just two ninety nine down from ten ninety nine that is quite a discount. So if you guys have always been interested in picking up, Mr. Shriners, book, blood, sweat and pixels today might be the day to do it. Support the home. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for reading. But before we get to that. Let me tell you read a male is brought to you by quip. The new year means new as Aleutians and we've got one year working on twice every day. That's right. It's brushing your teeth. It's oral health. The guiding features are like a built in support system. For better brushing, Nick loves is quick quip toothbrush keeps telling me about it g loves hers as well. I've actually just started using the toothpaste because they've removed the sodium sulfate from it and added xylitol, did you know that I didn't you big out? It's all fan. Well, xylitol actually is great for antibacterial properties inside your mouth, and you should look for it in a toothpaste, but more importantly, sodium, laurel slow fate gives people like the youth a sensitive mouth canker sores don't want those or a health. So I couldn't use them before. Now, they've removed it joins. All you're brushing your teeth wrong. You stick that thing in there, you shake it around a little bit. Then you take it out. And you think you're done. No, thirty seconds each quadrant. But this thing, let's, you know, this thing pulses in your mouth lets you know, when you're when it's time. To move on to the other quadrant. All right. And you might be doing. You're like, oh, I can time that myself. No, you can't you don't know what thirty seconds is. What feels like thirty seconds is not very second chance. Quip can help you hear Nick loves his. And that's why over one million happy healthy mouths due to quip starts at just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash games, right now, you can get your first refill pack free. That's your first refill pack free at GATT, Q, U, IP dot com slash and games. And next up. Thank you to hymns for sponsoring this show. Sixty six percent of men lose their hair by age thirty five the thing is when you start to notice hair loss, it's too late. It's easier to keep the hair you have to replace the hair you've lost. That's why there's four hymns dot com. A one stop shop for hair loss, skin care and sexual wellness for men hints connects you with real doctors and medical grade solutions to treat hair loss. There are well known generic equivalents to name brand prescriptions to help you keep your hair. That's why Nick loves it. He's been using a lot of these things for years. And this helps him kind of just like stay on that and get it easy and to use his it loves the little gummy. They send him. I told the story yesterday. But one of my really good friends over the last couple of years has been losing his hair got really worried about it. And it's been kind of embarrassed. And I was like he was talking to me. And I brought this up. He's been using it for the last year and seeing great results you can order now listeners get a trial month of hymns for just five dollars today while supplies last see website for full details. This would cost hundreds if you went to the doctor or pharmacy. Go to four hymns dot com slash games daily. That's F R H I M, S dot com slash games. Daily for his dot com slash. Good work, Tim. Thank you. So now, let's jump into some reader mail again as a reminder, we have changed the way the reader mail works in kind of funny. Four point. Oh, you need to go to patriot dot com slash kind of funny games. Get in at the bronze level or above and you can submit your questions for the show. So I up we have got Dorte rosta who writes spider-man's numbers can you continue to impress? And it got me wondering, but how long would take for them to release the sequel? What are the best games with a very short development cycle that you can remember love from Portugal. Dorte? This is a really interesting question. Because no doubt marvel in insomniac have already pitched Spiderman two to PlayStation, right? How could they not nine million copies sold? I think everybody wants a little bit more of that action. But what would it take to get that game made how many years of development? I would say I mean, we're probably comfortably four to five years. Away from another Spiderman game, I don't think. So you think it's choir? I think yeah. I mean, we talked about this lot on some shows. I don't know we talk about video games a lot. I feel like we have the city already. I feel like when you lane. When you when you look at the move them out of New York when you look at the deal see that they've added and how quickly they added it. And at the the level of quality that it was which I would argue deal. See one was fantastic deal. See to was kind of slow, but I played it right back to back with three. So it didn't I didn't dislike it as much as it seems like a lot of other people did because three was pretty good and the amount of story. They added the amount of like lower building and world building. They did. There was really cool game plays as fun as ever. But it really to me shows that like they can create some real quality stuff in pretty short amount of time. Having said that we already kind of know story wise where the game could go based on the ending and post credit stuff the first one, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see it on PlayStation four, and if we see it like within two years, I'm with you. Yes. Barrett with how I'm with you that from a technical perspective. They probably can get this game out the gate a lot quicker than we anticipate. Date. But I'm thinking about it. From more of a marketing and PR perspective that PlayStation has already set up. Some really big exclusives to come in the next two to three years. And so where does Spiderman to potentially fit in with that plan because you don't necessarily want to cannibalize any other games? They might have coming down the pipeline. I think what we've seen the last couple of years with Sony is really smart strategic placement of their first party games in a way that they haven't stepped on their own feet at all the exceptions to that are the things that I honestly feel like they kind of put out to die. Like last guardian wide that game come out in December like that game was going to. And that's what I'm saying died. You'll I feel like they kind of just like we we just got to get this out. So they they prayed at that space to not step at all on horizon coming after that. And then you go down, and when you look at last year, it's like there was we got. Detroit. God of war. We got not not order. And then man like there was a ton of games, and they they all kind of had their own breathing room their own place. We don't have that many games coming down the pipeline from the and we'll also talk about two years like death strand goes to the Shema last of us. What about what about horizons zero? Don, the next one is the man is there a sequel confirmed them now to know that they're working on it at the thing about like, the when is the PS five being planned to come out because you want you imagine that Sony also wants to bring out Spiderman those first couple of years to help sales for PS five and to have Spidey to on the PS five not on the PS four again spotty to I've really feels giving five PS four. I think and it also also many bell. My biggest thing is. Yeah. It's like, I truly believe that the Pierre's five and PS four games are going to be the same thing. Yeah. There's always a little bit of overlap in the first two years of the consul generation shift. Interesting two years. I was a betting woman on my bet you one. Pizzas. Next question, e walks are just dwarf Wookey. Hey, guys. Welcome back and congratulations on four point. Oh, and equipping. The Barrett point fifty Cal. What's up legislate kinda funny? Moving to four point. Now. My life has gone through some big changes the last couple of months new job new car, moved into a new partner with my girlfriend regrets because of all this responsibility. Adulting. Nonsense getting done I've decided to treat myself copious four. But here's the thing. I can't decide whether to start with Spiderman or God of war. We'd love to get some advice on the Sony pony and the rest of the K of crew on which one I should go with I keep up the good work and can't wait to see what's coming for twenty nine hundred. I mean, you really can't go wrong, but I would advise God of war because I feel like that that is one of the greatest games of all times the game of the year for two thousand eighteen and it is there's so much content there, and but you don't need to do it all for it to be an amazing spirits. You can just go through the story and it still perfect, but the additional content at the end game is great as well where Spiderman is freaking fantastic spectacular. Ultimate some would say, but I do feel like there's a lot more padding in it. And there's a lot more to do. In that game. I I yeah. Definitely play both of its in your bandwidth. But if you had to choose please pill it please choose God for because there is not been a game. Like this literally in a generation, and it's one of the most impactful games that I've played in an incredibly long time. And I obviously spoke at length about it last year. It was my personal game of the year. It was what's good game of the year was the game awards game of the year. And I have no doubt that it will go onto win more awards at both the GDP awards that are coming up. And of course, the dice awards, which Greg Miller is hosting. Don't forget February thirteenth eight PM Pacific time. Tune in with him, Jessica, Charlotte. So yeah, that's our advice. Sabre midnight writes in and says how Cayenne GD crew why aren't more people talking about how a streaming future could hurt Nintendo and handhelds as a whole if I can stream next-gen quality gains for my laptop browser or my phone than why fork out three hundred dollars for a switch. Sure. Nintendo could add streaming too. But it's a lot cheaper to buy an XBox controller that attach to your phone should Nintendo be worried. No. They will either adapt or adapt in ten years. You know, what I mean, I'm with you know, Nintendo has always March to the beat of their own drum, and they clearly hit an audience that isn't on the cutting edge of technology, or if they do they're hitting that that that target audience after right? So if you if you think about who Nintendo is always marketing towards it's not, you know, the people who are at CAS buying the hot gear right now today. Right. Like that's not their core audience who's stayed with them for decades. So I don't think that they need to do streaming. And I would actually argue that they shouldn't. Because if you look at the style of games that have been the most successful to them, they are not necessarily technical. Prowess type games. So that's why. Think that I would love for them to stream because then they'll actually work when they stream, and we don't we don't need to worry about like, these I crease breaking all the shit. Yeah. I I is about a day that I can play my Nintendo games like pull it an ipad on a plane with a big ass screen because I've I've had probe. So like twelve point nine pro controller and just with any controller I want and play like I have a bunch of emulators and stuff on my ipad. And I hooked up to a dual shock for. And it was way more complicated than it should have been. But just playing games like like that is amazing and like that should be the future. And every time I play on my switch Macau issue, which still pick. I wish it was a lot bigger. I mean, that's the the biggest drawback for the switch right now. Because the portability is fantastic. But I agree with you that I just keep looking at the screen going. Why is there not a bigger option? I think he's gonna do like switch excels or the God who they're going to do next cell. They're going to do a mini alight. Or whatever get smaller. No. I don't think they'll do a mini. I think it'll be like a weird like it's going to be one where the you can't remove the joy cons damn by that shit. I don't. The bank. I believe you'll see one toss. Ooh. Pok Mon you want to double down on that stuff. You got a family. You got two kids one of those kids like by Boca on the other. I do too you need to switches iota got one. You gotta get that dumb. Little kid the one that she's not break. I want to call on the best friends who I'm watching on twitch dot TV slash kind of funny games to right into kind of dot com slash your wrong in please let me know when during the three D S life cycle was the tutti s introduced the one that does not full who's this for. It's so stupid, blah, blah, blah, and the two D S. My greatest reason that I'm like, I know I'm right about this. Because everyone's like, the switches whole point is that it can be a counseling or April will thing. Like why it's in the name of switch, and it's like, okay. It was in the name. Yes. And then they were like who gives a fuck. It's the tutti s Dow suck it. I guess. And a bonus points if you can drop into sales numbers. Thank you. Best friends who are watching with us live. Yeah. I think the short answer here. Sabre is known Nintendo has long maintained their dominance in the industry. Sometimes weirder ways and other and they've had some missteps, but I think they're as strong as they ever have been right now, and they will continue to find the next thing to innovate on. Eric Myers writes in speaking of Nintendo says, hey, Timothy Andrea governed intendo question for you what unannounced titles? Do you think? We'll see this year. I'm crazy. Am I crazy to think we could see Mario maker to announce them released this year after all anything is possible a decade of dreams continues? I don't think that you're crazy at all. I think my mom money maker to is inevitable. I don't think it'll be Myo maker deluxe. It will just be the next mile maker. It might be called something different than it might not have to. But it's. It's going to be a substantial upgrade from what we previously. Saw. I think if we were to have seen a direct port. We wouldn't have seen it on the three s as well. I think that them releasing new Marlboros you deluxe. Now is a great way to like separate a bit from oil maker because it is a weird thing when you can make levels like that in the game like for them to re releasing both. But they're not stupid. They know that they put this game news of my view on switch. It's going to sell gangbusters, then maybe later in the year, Mario maker to. But also, I wouldn't be surprised if it's not next year or this year, but the foul early next year like Q one twenty twenty. Got sounds good to me. I wouldn't be surprised if we get it this year in terms of the games that aren't announced yet. I don't know. We're running out of franchise Hickman four. Well, we'll pick pick men is definitely game. We haven't heard from in a long time. I think you know, the communities clearly hankering for metro-wide, right? And it would be great. If Nintendo announced that for holiday this year. Thanks to lead to something. Like that. I mean, we also are waiting the new poke Amman RPG, we just hearing about it. But we don't know anything about it. Did you see that fan mockup art that someone posted on Reddit keep keep dreaming, baby? No in a world of we're breath of the wild was possible free. A lot of things going into that. That'd be amazing like that. That is just no I can't even can't even think and dream of that being a reality. Although. Dream. No, it's I'm trying to keep it in. I'm trying to I'm trying to be, you know, not realistic. I'll never be realistic. But, you know, thank you best friends for for writing in Lord of Ponce says the two DS came out on a Tober 2013. David Scott said the two DS was released eighteen months after the three D S O interesting. We're approaching that time for in the switches life cycle if we're not already there. We're already there. Are we not because it was March twenty seventeen seventeen. Yeah. So we've passed that point. Maybe maybe holiday this year holiday this year baby with Pok Mon maybe three release leaving honest. And then they do then they do a polka on bundle at holiday. Thank you fucked up again. They make some weird choices. I'll never forget. We went into c- gardens the galaxy to in theaters, and we all went in. Then we all went out. And we all looked at our phones, we got an Email from Nintendo. That's like, hey, the there's now a to DSL we're all like what the fuck. It's coming out like now. So totally new designs though. I don't know, man. They're crazy over there. What will they think of next? What will they think of next? All right. Let's see here. We got time for just a couple more. David scott. What's good too many? Andrea with games like anthem and the division two coming out in the next few months. I wanted to ask how many games can fit in the games as a service model before there isn't enough players to distribute between them all with all the big battle royale games games like destiny to still getting content updates. Do you think that the amount of players that will play newer games as service games will be hindered? Or do you think they will switch over to anthem and spread thinner? Do you think this will negatively impact the games industry feel free to paraphrase this question? You did good David keep up the great work, and I'm liven kinda funny. Four point. Oh, we've talked about this a little bit yesterday. Both something for you to think about. Trevor star the paycheck producer tears, the if you pay this month, you get them next month. I was in Joey little I wasn't anticipating you reading that out loud. But here we are continue with your answer my answer. Ladies and gentlemen, is that I feel that we there was a time that that was true a couple years ago when games the service refers I kind of being introduced as a concept in the time when mobilize were run into PM. No, one understood like what they were. And when battle arena games were like popping off. It was like oh my God. There's so many similar games in new gene, RAs, quote, unquote. But now, we're we're at I really feel like each one of these games kind of has their own niche not entirely though, I was talking about it yesterday. I feel like Ubisoft has kind of created this ecosystem. And in the same way, we were talking about earlier Sony kind of having its released lineup not step on itself. You be soft is aware of when and how it stepson itself in a way, that's kind of beautifully creating a system of people moving on from one you begin to the next you begin. And if you're into UB ecosystem, you're doing that. I don't really think the division. Two players are are the same people playing destiny or anthem at least not by choice. I feel like if they when a lot of people were wronged by destiny to their opinions. So they bounced over here. But then I have feeling over the course last couple of years with destiny fixing itself. Now the battles between anthem and destiny I feel like those activision EA that's a bit more of a fight for people's attention. But just need to old at this point. So it's anthems game to win the come in or anthems game to fuck up. I'm with you that the audiences kind of Ebon flow in the way that the publishers have kind of space out content really kind of. Moves people from game to game. I think that that's something that should be considered that most people who play games a service like myself who plays rainbow succeed and destiny too. And I'm definitely going to be sinking the law of time into anthem and the division to you kind of like get into a mode where you're really heavy into one title for a while. And then the conduct kind of thins a little bit towards the end of the season. And then you're like, oh, you know, what maybe it's time for a little change of pace. Then you move onto the other game and tried that games season. Now, the problem with this is not necessarily, you know, how much time you spend with each title, but the cost associated with maintaining a presence in all of these games as services because it can get quite pricey if you're buying season passes and each game you play mean season passes range from twenty to sixty bucks a pop or more by the time you add in, you know, Michael transactions and skins and everything else that you can buy in life service games. And so that to me is. I think we're going to have to keep an eye in two thousand nineteen how all these games kind of balance the cost associated particularly of publisher like Ubisoft as you mentioned that has a whole stable of life service games, four honor rainbow sakes ghost recon. And now, the division two's coming out people are obviously so playing the division in the so it's like, how do I how do I pay for all that? It would be really awesome. If a publisher like he'd be soft said, we're going to give you a UB play pass. Right. Where you get for one. For one bulk price, you get access to all of the seasons of content in all of our life service games. That would be amazing like custom skins or custom weapons or things that are just for people who have like this, masterpass that. You can go in and try out all of these things because they already have crossover, customizable elements. You know, seeing the four honor inspired skins and rainbow six or seeing, you know, the assassin's creed inspired stuff inside for honor things like that. So I would like that. Maybe Ubisoft have you could make. That happen. And then just give me a cut because my brilliant. It's gonna happen. Happen. I really feel like we're we're moving towards that things. Like XBox teams best prove that right that that's the model that we're going towards next generation. So I'll about those subscription services, man. All right. Well, we do have a squad up today that will be the end of reader mail on this episode Chaz J s writes in and says, hey, Timothy Andrea me and a few friends play destiny two on Xbox One. And I've never managed to get enough people to do a rate. We clear all the weekly challenges every week, but we need the KF community to help us out and walk us through some raids. We are in the K O governor. So timing might be difficult with a lot of KFC. I don't know the KF community is strong over there. My gamertag is Chaz J S C H A Z j s against C H as e J s and our clan. Name is cookies Luntz because whenever we lose because the other team are lucky I think you can figure out there. He has the London meet up last year was amazing. Thank you for coming in signing. My team fat shirt, and thanks Tim for signing. My brother's bomber jet or signing. My bomber jacket hash tag team. Baby. All right. So now, it's time to look at your wrong in the ferry second one. If you want to start here, I'm looking up that one from John to see that's solely didn't announce that spite of minutes, the best selling, PlayStation exclusive all time, they announced there was the fastest selling places. That's what I thought from earlier. That's what I was saying where I feel like it was just in time. I'm I'm looking to make sure because he did not linka source Tyco to says there's a game with dick physics. And that game is out your friends. That is true. Those things are incredible. There's also genital jousting. Yeah. There is there is those just Dick's. Yes. They are just literal Dick's jesting. But hey, it's still taking physics. There's still physics. There's still Dick's. I'm here for it. Okay. So according to venture beat with this new announcement that happened from Sony, interactive entertainment. They right with this milestone of Spiderman selling nine million copies. It could be the PlayStation four's best performing exclusive on fourth and had the previous highest sold. Mark with eight point seven million copies moved as of January two thousand seventeen of course, that was some time ago and uncharted for may have moved past the nine million Mark since then obviously it's been on sale numerous times since then but on charter four also came out on may tenth two thousand sixteen Marvel's Spiderman is outpacing it grandeur is mo- one sold ten point eight five million. So. I don't think so I guess Spiderman is poised to overtake could use the word where did the day poised leaving the waste, but thank you for writing. This is exactly what kind of dot com slash you're wrong wrongness for. Zaire writes in says dragon's dogma dark arisen is coming to switch on April. Twenty third. A lot of two S. Lot of thirty s there's a lot of editorializing in your Iran today. Tim. That's. That's it. We're good. We did pretty good. A lot of you wrote in about the Tuvia. So thank you. Interesting. Shout out to the studio shots to the Esmond. Get so much hate. I did I did ask them for the sales numbers for the two D S. And it looks like as of September twenty eighteen intendo sold nine point six million two DS units worldwide a lot of hardware. Is that more than the we, you know, we use what thirteen million? Thirteen million. I'm excuse me, the Nanno biologists. I did not forget to mention ghost recon wildlands. I definitely mentioned it rewind the tape. Remember, you're doing it. All right. That is it for kind of funny games daily. Don't forget you can down load this podcast on your favorite podcast service. If you like the show, maybe hit that subscribe button. Maybe if you really like the show leave us a review preferred we stars. Well, except for stars anything less than just don't. Spreading positively member? If you don't have something nice to say, also if you want to hit that subscribe button over at YouTube dot com slash kinda funny games. We've got a bunch of new shows coming in kind of funny. Four point. Oh for you guys. It's going to be an exciting year. Lots more. What's your favorite of the new shows that are coming to you have shows? Oh, I wanna see cafe have doesn't exist yet. So I can't wait until tomorrow to see as limited amount of time to get that together. Good work. That's one of the fun of it though. Just you know what? I mean, we have the concept of it twins world party time. Thanks so much for tuning in everybody. Tomorrow's hosts are Jared. And Mr. Gary widow Thursday, I'm back with Fran Mirabella. Doing kind of funny games. That'll be interesting. Yeah. And then Friday, it's Jared me. Oh, jerry. I haven't hosted together in a while. And later today if you are a patriot silver member on patriots dot com slash kind of funny games. We are recording the kind of funny games cast it Greg's gone. So it's gonna be me. It's going to be friend. It's gonna be Jared. And Andrea joining. I I haven't been on the games cast in a hot minute. That's gonna be good long time a lot of fun. And by a lot of fun. He means there's going to be a lot of arguing if you want to figure out what exactly that means. You should tune in later today. Thanks everybody for today. It's been our pleasure to serve.

Sony Nintendo Spiderman Tim gettys Timothy Andrea Kevin Veselin Andrea Rene Sony interactive Barrett publisher president and CEO Rovers insomniac games Nick David Scott YouTube Michael CHU
Billy Bean, MLB Special Assistant to the Commissioner

The Twelve Six Podcast

1:03:13 hr | 9 months ago

Billy Bean, MLB Special Assistant to the Commissioner

"The On. His. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the twelve six podcast. I'm your host Collin McHugh. Baseball season is underway and you might have heard by now but I have chosen to opt out of this short twenty twenty season. After four days were already having to postpone games due to cove outbreaks. Now. I'm not an alarmist and my opting out was not solely because of the risks of playing during a pandemic. y'All had lingering arm issues that just won't resolving fast enough to justify continuing to play or try to play this year but games being cancelled four days in because of an outbreak is concerning. We're starting a season in a country where cases are not going down. Nor cities that have it contained. Teams are doing their best to keep us safe. Shout out to the Red Sox who are truly a first class organization in that regard. But guys getting the virus getting sick and spreading it is a big problem. And not just because it means that your entertainment for the night got cancelled. These are human beings contracting a potentially debilitating virus. Just trying to do their jobs and I, know that you understand. People across this country are having to do the same thing. Work protect themselves as best as possible, get tested and pray that others are doing the same. because. That's really the only way we're going to get back to any sort of normal anytime soon. But all of that is content for another time. Today, we are talking to a new friend of mine who is playing a really important role in the Commissioner's office former player Billy beane. Billy played for six years and is one of two openly gay players to have ever played in the league. He opens up about debut and success at an early age, his struggles with understanding sexuality while playing. And his hopes for baseball's inclusive future. As always make sure you subscribe to the show so that you're always up to date whenever new episodes air. Balls in the middle of a strange and potentially radical shift both on the field and off, and my hope is to continue these talks with the people at the center of these changes. With that in mind I hope you enjoyed today's conversation Billy Bean. David. I. Thank you so much for for doing this my pleasure. I said I've had like a technology nightmare two days. Corporate America is involving so fast especially now nobody sees each other. Every young NEUM personnel office is changing the dynamic of the way we communicate. And also MLB makes you change your passwords like every thirteen days. I ever lost my phone I might as well. Just. Wander, the world. As one of my honestly one of my biggest fears if. If. I. Hear that on it. I don't want to take up a ton of your time tonight. I know that A. Valuable these days. But I WANNA talk to you about a few things terror one. To you plane grew. Okay. To talk about your understanding of your sexuality and the kind of the process of coming out but as a as a baseball players in. In any part of any of this, like I don't talk about this uncomfortable or read that just let me know you're good. You're good I my both my life is out there in the. Way. That, I've learned to communicate effectively I think is by sharing personal experience as opposed. To how I think the world should go in first of all I just WANNA. Say I had a chance to listen to two of your podcasts and? The woman vote was amazing. Man I. Took for run. It was hot as balls outside I don't hold time you do your homework and. For someone. You remind me kind of even though the whole generation is different but a sort of a player who understands this amazing moment while it's happening taking the time to appreciate reach avocado you were really generous with. The similar life experience of with Tony, Kemp today listen to that and how we lived a privileged life without even understanding what that means and in one other thing. I. Don't know if we could talk about it gets too but just a straight I share. Figuring to learn and. You're GONNA do really well off the field I hope you play for another seven or eight more years but. I really appreciate that you're right like where we're at right now if we're not willing to learn than, it's just so much noise coming to us at all directions, I feel. So disoriented sometimes about like what to believe, I. Can't like lean on people who actually lived experiences in follow kind of their compass I duNno. It's hard to know where you're where you're headed win ago. So I appreciate you. Lending your experience here but me in the listeners in you as a special assistant to the commissioner right now. I have a lot of the responsibility square under shoulder. So how are you argue do it in all this? You know it's it's been the most incredible. Learn as you go experience last hundred fifteen days or whatever it's been since everyone of our lives change. In early March I was on the road actually just getting ready to do big Arizona's spring training swing, and for minute you know whether you're GonNa get back home you know the the airports are GonNa work. It just seems like from that first day to now. Trying to understand and grasp where. Baseball fits in giant picture of of humanity, and then I think once. There was some confidence that we could navigate around the the covid nineteen virus in begin to plan for a better moment. Our office has it's is just really been seven days a week. Endeavor because the rules have changed as you can better say to your listeners. You know there was a moment where we thought all the Games we're going to be Zona, and then you know all of them in Florida and might spring training was getting ready to happen and analysis craft, and now we're in our regular season ballparks you know. Managing. What clubs had to go through with the minor league players who couldn't return home in spring training was incredible. You know stressful moment where we were just trying to figure out the safest way to. Take. Care of those young kids and you know communicate. All of that as many languages, we speak in baseball every culture everyone was processing differently and it's just been I feel like a parent with a lot of kids. I. Think you know where I worry more probably than I should but we're trying to forecast everything is supposed to. Picking up our phone in reading about what you did last night in the seventh and eighth inning the hold of a win for the bus red sox he's an astros. We're not. We don't have anything to talk about except. A potential options are you know a scenarios and I think that it's it's weighed on his heavily on there's nothing more important than keeping the players safe. And providing an environment where fans can it be enjoying the situation or we can get it televised to bring maybe a moment of of peace away from a very worried. You know moment for everyone so I would just have to say that. It's it's the navigation through. That has been a really amazing experience lot of people that really love baseball are trying their very best to bring it back. In Naked Save, we can for you guys to get out there and show you what you can do. Yet it's. There's so much different now than it's been in the past that almost embracing the. The Manny at the mania of it is. The whole point at this point, right like everything's changed from where we're situated at clubhouses Hauer be able to travel and all that kind of stuff. So like. I keep telling people. Don't think about this as compared to baseball off last hundred and fifty years. Let's think about this almost in a vacuum and say like, what can what can this do for us? What can do for the country right now baseball is not going to cure a lot of ills that we had gone on him country but. It can give us a little bit of a refuge for three hours a night. We can I think that that definitely has helped us when we try to keep just keep telling yourselves. This is just for twenty twenty. You know that you know but optimistically staying in that space but. Ultimately, we still don't know where we're going I live in New York City I, work out of the Commissioner's office the main central office here in New York was just ground zero for the first two months. And now we seem to have you know really flat curve and but then you look down south in the So many other states are navigating to a very difficult time. So he assumption that everything's GonNa be perfectly fine going into twenty twenty one even that is starting to get on the minds of the so. I think you know part of our job is to. Manage his sport in give is a chance to play in I. Guess You for listeners the mindset is. Trying to entertain every possible scenario and be able to communicate that to all these. Will we appreciate it as players I know that? A lot of us going back had reservations about trying to trying to do this in the middle of that's going on in the world and especially in this country right now but we appreciate the hundred thirteen pages of. Everybody spent fit like hours in trying to come up with. But before your job as special assistant, you came on with Major League. Baseball as the ambassador for correct? Yes. In two thousand, fourteen I was. named. At the very first time that the job. it was created I guess for me. With the intention of expanding conversations of fostering a inclusive respectful accepting workplace in our sport, we had just added a sexual orientation to workplace protection laws that many corporations had already added and I think that there was a couple of people in our office that. Had heard of me but did not have thought about me for a long time. For your listeners it's interesting to note that in one hundred, fifty, one year history of Major League Baseball only two former major league players have ever publicly disclosed. that. They are gay of player Glenn Burke who played in the seventies for the in Los Angeles, dodgers and myself I didn't know anything about Glenn, when I was a player I, didn't know anything about you know lgbt issues at that time and you know we can go into that throughout the course of this discussion. But I left baseball under some really really difficult off the field scenario my life of. Kind of slid into by living in the closet in hiding secret from my family. And was away from the sport for over ten years and it was through the leadership of our office that I was brought back to help foster conversations and really help instill. A better understanding of what was going on in the world for the players you you started you've made it. You Don Collins in two thousand twelve and I think that maybe you can probably communicate to the difference between baseball in two thousand twelve to the difference in baseball in two, thousand, sixteen or seventeen. The way we educate the players The resources in funds. That really began with my conversations of walking into a major league clubhouse in facing a bunch of grown men like yourself. In sharing my life story in ten minutes. About the amount of time that a major League Abou- slow laugh allow you to. Share your message with before they need to get out of their own business. Yes. It's true. Funding especially in spring training finding an hour during game feels like pulling teeth. So, I I can imagine. And I hope I'm wrong here and tell me if I am but it feels like from my perspective. Baseball. Collectively meaning players staff fans. There's a general kind of lack of awareness when it comes to. Advocacy for LGBTQ, community from your job as the ambassador for inclusion to now have you seen that change. Well. I think we have to be fair to the players First of all, most of the athletes, all of the athletes are young. And just like in my own family. I I grew up in a very I would say homophobic environment. Wasn't by any choice or decision it was just seventies eighties my dad stepfather's ring core on the oldest defy boys. I was good at sports. I made the Big Leagues Before I was twenty one got A. quarterback in football team in high school played on the basketball team I didn't know anything about gay people or LGBT. They didn't use those terms in my generation, and so I think utilizing the experience that I had in my life, I can understand from a player's perspective. Why? They. Would never have thought about an issue like this and I think my job is to make provide information that offers them the consideration to make that decision for themselves and provide the why. Why why is it important for a player? Who's going to Sunday work for a billion dollar franchise and represent something so much bigger than themselves where a whole state or or A. World Class. City is playing to possibly wear their. Jersey. I they need a chance to understand better, and once that I've had that opportunity tonight it is it is up to them and I think that when I first started I don't think I've I've ever not wanted to do something so much in my life than you know walk into legally clubhouse in share you know my personal story where there's nothing more than a player wants to watch her clubhouse until respect from his peers and to feel like he has earned the right to be in that room because he is paid his dues or he is just not good. Even own first year players. No matter even if they have a huge investment behind the bay still WANNA prove the veterans that they belong in there and you don't get to the big leagues this year baseball player I you know I mean you can't go half half way and So, you know personally identified one hundred percent is a baseball player every bit of my self. Esteem. Or the way I valued myself had to do if I got knocks, you know that game and went home and felt like I had a job the next day so. Remembering all that I think that you know for me to go in there too soon that a player assist a bad person because they don't know lgbtq plus names is narrow sighted on my behalf in my job is to. Continue to find ways to communicate that are relatable and I. think that because I'm a former player understanding that I'd rather have an amazing seven impactful minutes and talk for forty five minutes about how hard my life was two other guys. It's been successful and I think that from when I started to wear his now. I'm still blown away and amount of players who you know come up to me when I'm around the ballpark and say man, if I have a teammate who wants to come out I'll I'll be fired up for Each all wanted knows is he willing to go to battle with me? Is he going to be out there every day he agreed teammate and I think that some of the examples. That athletes have seen when someone tries to. Capitalize or gain visibility or popularity for something that they do off field I think the players sometimes they have. You know a little resentment about it or they're like, Hey, what what's what's the big picture there? So I think if if an athlete just doing it because you know he's tired of hiding his family and he wants to just have as you know a same home environment you and your wife do I, think the players would be. Very, accepting of that and and that's what I hope for when the first player decides to do it as an active player. I hope so too I was GONNA conversation this offseason with the Sean doolittle. Of the nationals. We were talking about it talking both about how separately had conversations in clubhouses really throughout her career as crazy enough as it sounds trying to argue for the possibility that there are players major baseball right now and to me, it feels very, very close minded to think that we couldn't even have many players in baseball right now. But. I WanNa talk about your story a little bit something that kind of. Leads into where where I'd like to. Everyone, but you were like you said great athlete growing up oldest five boys football basketball baseball. You got drafted by Detroit Tigers to the. Tigers in fourth round in eighty six is that it got drafted by Yankees. Ninety, five in my college coach talked to me in A. Great country to Milana going back to school, and we ended up going to called world series. For guys made a big leagues off. My College team at Loyola. Marymount. Jim Bruschi Chris. Donald. Timmy Liana Myself. So you know you never know how things worked out but dagga drafted by the Tigers a fourth round in the big leagues six months later. Say That were. John smoltz way back and Kinda. Got Up to the big leagues quickly as well. But six months is like what you twenty one years old John's Molten got drafted in the same draft he was. Man Talking about the one that got away from the dire that was a bad batch ray but. We you know I remember him spring training. Yeah I got off to a flying start in baseball and you know nobody knows how players are gonNA handle with Batson in I was I played I played four years of college which wasn't so Out of the norm in those. And I graduated in They Aa supposed to give me some money because they didn't have any leverage and. I just tore up the eastern league and then they sent me an instructional league and I had four hundred there with you know where Instruction League was all top prospects in those days. And majorly manager showed up and and then. I got I. went to I. Got invited the Big League camp and I mean, I, think I had four hundred. There's some crazy I i. don't know I was in a bubble and next thing you know Guy Gaga Toledo Ohio. Toledo mud hen I hit three home runs the first week at twelve rb is and. Somebody got hurt and my. Manager was guiding Leon Roberts and this is the worst ballpark in pro baseball those days in. I know they're playing a joke on me because I was the youngest guy triple eighteen and next thing I know A. Big Leagues Often, I got a major league record. I got four hits in my very first big-league game and got off to a great start a big leagues and and then I think Kirk Gibson came off deal and I found a spot on the bench. I didn't play for like fifteen days in then like I forgot how to hit. You know sad story that every player has but I never sat on the bench in in a game in my life, I don't think and. Here I am in the Big Leagues and I the the truth about going through the minors. So quickly as you really don't know what kind of player you are, and I think that you hit a home run, you think you're a power hitter and if you still a base, you think you're installment and Ricky Henderson, and if you have a bad game, you think you're terrible plan and that was the adjustment that I had to make was understand I was really good. The miners a kept getting called up the big leagues and I wasn't good enough to start or I just looked like I was fourteen years old I was guy coming off the bench and I really really struggled mentally I think trying to figure out where I fit in and then I started struggling with my sexual orientation and that's when you know looking back. I really it was so hard for me to accept how I felt like fumbled my my opportunity to be a big league baseball player. Even I played six years in the majors of if felt like it went by a blink of an eye and in it was you know chequered career at best. But I you know I was certain that you know for me that I was somebody I didn't quite understand what my sexual orientation was. I was married my college girlfriend. We were together eight years. Amazing. Women who very, very close with today. But when I first met somebody, I was flamed I'd been traded a couple times. And I was playing in San Diego and I, met somebody I left my marriage immediately it was the first person I'd ever had relationship with and that's when I started a living a double life in also trying to understand like what that meant I had never there was no internet in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, three. There was no way to learn about things except by talking to people and I know that the seem impossible for people to understand but. You only news about gay people knows days where people dying of AIDS and it was grim the stereotypes were. Everywhere robust I never saw an image of gay person that I could relate to I was center fielder in the major leagues. By just had his terrible dark secret that I was more afraid of telling my family. For you know I think most of the time because I really thought they would like disown me I mean that's that's where it was in my mind. And then every image you're talking about how players are still grasping with acceptance for lgbt issues in twenty twenty and this was you know nine, hundred, ninety, two, ninety, three, and I was sure that baseball would never ever accept and also thought there could never have been another player. Like me ever because what how could there be you know just really really stuck in darts ace and you know when I met my first partner. I listen to your podcast. The other day you said that your your wife is half Persian for half. And my I met someone who was uranium and and so was a cultural difference as will a person spoke six languages didn't know anything about sports was raised in Europe. taught me a lot about life. I taught him a little bit about baseball and for a while I started fleeing better than I'd ever played in I really felt like. I had a little sliver of light in happiness a little bit of the time during the day. And I would go to the park in I would really struggle I remember sitting in my car. Trying to flesh all those thoughts out of my head had to be. The. Baseball player my roommate was Brad Office. catcher in San Diego for many years managed the Detroit Tigers in the Los. Angeles angels playing the big plays eighteen years in one of my best friends I've ever had and I remember thinking. If. He ever found out you never WANNA be my friend in in in ironically the role that we've gone down after him and his wife about. How of sent? They weren't and I never thought I could talk to them about and it was. A bitter pill to swallow down the road but. The hardest part I think about my my career. Why left baseball just around the time that I was starting to learn how to play the big league level. Is At my partners was Sam he died of HIV, related causes the night before opening day nineteen ninety-five. I I thought. I didn't know what to think and. Taken, into the hospital the night before. He was really really suffering his health had we just found out Vin each I be positive about a month and a half before there was no medication in those days that was truly effective. In, everybody was susceptible to different issues when you're immune system is compromised and died right in front of me of cardiac arrest. Around seven am in the San Diego hostile and we had a one o'clock game that day and I went to the ballpark. and. You know I think. Part of the process that has allowed me to have the capacity to do the job that I am asked to do is all of those mistakes that I made mostly to my detriment where. Fear of trusting people that love me and that I loved. Because I was so hung up on the one issue the stereotypes that gay men were you know thrust with by people in my world by athletes five perfect specimen guys. It never had been bullying today of their lives or you know wealthy and you know of privilege in. And then of course, whether you're a person of privilege or not if you're a greatest force, you're never subjected to any type of. stereotype that you might be feminist by other guys looked up to as world-class athletes and I think that that last year for me after my partner died. In trying to hold it in not talk about it's anybody I, just finding thought there someone like me did not deserve to be in baseball or I needed to get out. And instead of talking to anybody remain or my parents or. Doctor or a friend, I just walked away from baseball in as a young player and. was. Truly. Of the things that I can control in my life one of the great regrets that I always have and so I have. A determination to try to be. Through the lessons I've learned how life has. Provided me opportunities to learn from amazing people when I stopped hiding from the truth many of them in the Lgbtq community who went through similar experiences but triumphant and became great role models in fighters, her civilize equality for everybody. It's really helped me put those decisions behind me and try to be a person. They can build a bridge to what was a huge divide between you know not only major league baseball but all professional sports. you know with the visibility in the way the world has changed. There's been so much education in there's been so much progress but social media allows for incredible acts of bias and bigotry in hates and I really think that. Social media is the reason why we don't have athletes who are coming out in the major sports because. You know you know how hard it is to be in the major leagues to stay in the major leagues to to. Maximize your earning potential to take care of your family, the sacrifices that your family makes while you're a player. Just like the ones you're going to right now to play where maybe your health is at risk, but the opportunity in the the privilege of being it world class athlete biology genetics in are you don't get to be this person that you are very long and you have to make the most of that for me I think from what I have seen the educational opportunities we've had I think that is probably a bigger reason why we're not seeing athletes make decisions more about business than it is about acceptance I think that many of them do have strong internal. Support groups that maybe they just keep off the grid of in private where someone like me I didn't even trust at because I grew up in a time where the messaging was just one hundred percent negative. Baseball feels especially at the professional level. Feels like it's an extremely tight knit group and community of players and staff and people in the game kind of cheap things in the game and it goes back to me thinking about Glenn Burke when he was playing. His teammates of his teammates knowing that he was gay. At the back. Do you feel like it works. The same way with you like did I know that he didn't come out to a surly your teammates then but did you feel like you had that same community that every other guy had in the baseball world? It's interesting that I Glenn, Burke Stanley very well, and Glenn grew up in a very accepting. Loving family that? He never. Thought to hide his sexual orientation, which is so amazing. You know to be for him. He grew up in the sixties you know and. And I think that that had a lot to do with his being much more in like a secure place. I talked dusty Baker few times about it was good friends with Glen and he just said Glen had no problem with himself and if he if you had a problem with it, he would say, right you got a problem with me. You know he was more confrontational in that way. I think in my situation. And, I and I. Definitely think to your point that glimpse as were not the problem at the time it was the institution of baseball wondering how fans would react. In that could have been just a couple of people and I think maybe part of the reason why Glenn continued to not you know it was because his teammates were judging him more about You know what he did on the field started in the world series you're not I mean that's an amazing accomplishment if you think about it. And I in my my case. I grew up in an environment that was I think the opposite of that. But it it wasn't by design. It was just a lack of education lack of being around diverse. Like I said I never met anybody that told me gay until think I was in the big leagues. Like. You know through college Los Angeles I lived in West Hollywood you know a when I was on the dodgers because my agent Picton apartment for me that we have invested in a building like the nine players owned or something i. mean just the most random thing like the for some I'd ever seen anybody that was comfortable with their sexual orientation. In West Hollywood, which was a a is a gay destination for years and years and years, and but for me, I think the. Feeling like. Everything was at stake. I just did not give my teammates chance and I plead with. Emily never did amazing documentary about my life. It was really really hard to watch because I. You know put it all out there but I played with auspice Trevor Hoffman Arche Rocco Dave Hansen. Chris Donald's. Andy Ben is any ashby. Phil plantier. Tony Gwynn was so. Amazingly Nice to me for three years that I was recently basketball even he would actually he actually was throwing me soft toss one time I was like this is not happening Tony Gwynn, is pitching soft Austin on me having Baseball like you know it was just like. Literally we felt like had died and gone to Heaven I. Mean The guy is the most amazing person and. I felt like an impostor, the whole time I think. I just didn't want those friendships to change and I love those guys and then when my story came out. Every single one of them almost. Like. Billy should've just told us you know and. I back in I think about quitting as a major league player. And realizing that that is never going to happen again and and you know those are the tried of examples and I try to share with the players about the privilege of playing in whether it's about sexual orientation or treating women with respect or posting something bigoted on the internet or you know not signing a kid's autograph whose whole life is going to be impacted by that moment. Because they look up to you these are I think relatable experiences about just the the the wonderful opportunity and I can't take those. Back. But I've learned that I was very lucky to play. You on a couple of teams not every team is light team. I played in San Diego. The first team I got called up to the big leagues with Detroit Tigers. Those guys felt like my uncles they were so much older than me. You know what I mean like. Jack Morrison Alan Trammell Gibson. Darrell Evans Dave Bergman Lou Whitaker Larry Hunted Chet Lemon. You know just on and on and on. And I feel like I feel like a kid and then you know in La we we had a a bunch of some good guys. My socia-, Hatcher Orel hershiser state great fans with them because of baseball and my job now but it wasn't a close team now like the San Diego Padres team was that I played on that would have been the moment that I could've trusted my teammates and I'll never know how that would have played out. Because I never gave it a chance so. That's one of the great regrets that I have. Because I think you don't many times it's like. I did a lot of work in bullying prevention education when I was away from baseball. And I really felt like I. Found a niche where. When I was not connected to our sport that Created athletic environments where every kid fell valued and had a chance to compete in find their voice whether or not judged like a three on three or five on five take a basketball game in the park. It doesn't matter if you're you know what gender you are, what color you are. If you're tall your short great and you can wade, you get to play and everybody starts bond and and I always try to have that simple methodology when it came to sports in in finding acceptance. But for me I, never really gave myself at chance in it's one of the great regrets that I have. Now. You talked about the idea of players relationships changing if they were to know or the fear that the relationship you had with his teammates will change if they were to know the you game in. To baseball like along the entire way does that inform the way you looked at and understood yourself from sexuality standpoint? Yeah. I think that like I said Baseball Baseball has always displayed Jackie Robinson because we have the greatest of if not the greatest athlete of all time with what he had to persevere while he had to compete a broke the color barrier but we kind of stood on that. Act of bravery by one person and. Didn't really expand on it as quickly as we should have like the sixties in the civil rights movement, we could waste our support for. African Americans superstars. Henry Aaron will be maze Frank Robinson Bob Gibson. Curt flood those players. There was no messaging that ever told me that it was okay to be gay in Baseball I. Don't know if that was baseball's responsibility at the time. The only sign that I ever saw baseball says don't gamble now is on the front of the clubhouse door. Should and you know you better not to do it, and if you did you get in trouble. So you know that was a form of education in a work because they were consistent with it and I think that until leadership. Grasped that there is a responsibility to our communities to our fans to our employees. And, our players are greatest messengers and we need to provide some educational resources that are gonNA, give them a fighters chance and being good citizens in the world just because you're a great pitcher rape baseball player Inter doesn't mean that you know what socially responsible you know issues are all about or what politics serve out. I remember you know the expectations a an athlete like. Serena Williams Venus Williams when they were fifteen there number one players in the world and they're being asked questions about you know global politics and things. It's it's a disservice to them their children and they're just great sport and I I think that that's where it coming i. feel a huge sense of responsibility to provide. Resources that I never saw I remember playing for the padres in the San Francisco giants held. An until there's a cure. At candlestick park that was an organization. That, they were supporting an a night to support people living. With HIV AIDS when a time when people were still dying and it was I I was. I couldn't. I I didn't even know it was the first time like my life intersected from whole to the Ballpark and here I just felt like everyone would be able to see this secret hiding and I I. My my body was tensed up and I think about you know times like that and I wonder how I'm able to play as long as I did, which is a whole other conversation about you know challenging. Another way that I try to challenge the players about. You know play as long as they will have, you play leaving everything that your body can you know provide on that field because when you are ten years out of your career, you're going to look back. You're going to be so grateful that you gave it everything you got cause you got your whole life to former play, and that is a whole different perspective for being sued enough for the Boston red. SOx Opening Day two weeks you know. Yeah I remember last year when or maybe it was two two years ago. This point win the Astros announced. They were going to do a pride night in Houston for the first time. And the only two teams are two of the teams with few who had yet to pride night or? HOUSTON. In Atlanta to the cities that. That I've spent my entire adult life. And from my point of view to cities with a extremely diverse environment gay community. So it made no sense to me why baseball which is a huge community activator wasn't getting out in front of it like you were saying and able to. Use The weight that ask for some good enforce change. I guess if if you and I both agreed that there is most likely at least a gay player in Major League Baseball Right now. What do you think it would take from a cultural perspective may be. To make be a safer place for a player like that to feel. Like he can come out and be exactly who he is. On off. Will I think? It's a combination of two things I think that for player to make that consideration there they they must be or are very secure in in in who and what they are, and that is probably ninety percent of the battle. My hope is and I've had a couple of experiences with minor league players that had not been playing very long. To come out and one that did and from the perspective of someone that are in place in your career bear game person who happens to play baseball and if there was a let's say you know as you're seeing if one player is ready to make that decision kind of like Jason Collins did was a player who had you know very well established in the NBA he's the only active athlete in the four major men team sports to ever probably or ever play as a publicly out gay man, which is incredible to think about. And like I said one, hundred, fifty, one year history allegiance leading myself and we came out we didn't come out publicly Glenn was. Known to some player, but he didn't come out in the media until after he was out baseball and pushed out of baseball and I didn't do it until three years after I was done. I did it kicking and screaming then but I think if a player has got like four or five year history of bigly service time and has proven himself that would be a one box and I would love to check for that perfect scenario. To come up because then that player will have established himself as a major league baseball player with his peers with his team. To be playing in this day and age in your fifth or six year. You're an amazing player this bottom line you guys are so great. Now the competition is so intense at I. Just think that athletes blazed the trail. And because it's going to be a lot of pressure put on that person, it's it's no different when you become the face of any conversation that is doing with our visit about throwing baseball or hitting a baseball, it's going to tax a little bit on your day to day preparation and that has a lot to do with the media. I think a player like that might become. One of the most popular players. Right away. He'd have a lot of enemies right away and I think someone had been around a little bit with understand that this is going to invite people on the fringe into their life a little bit. The middle is all going to just treat them just the same. And I, think you know for the most part that's kind of what social media is. There's a huge you know percentage of society that doesn't participate in that, and then there's a small part that really likes to have added. That's all it is gets read in. So Am seems to represent a broader audience I really feel comfortable with the way baseball. is necessarily, we were tired on Indian messaging what used to be deemed funny I. Mean Women used to be sexualize every single night on the scoreboard in big league ballparks you know and there was no understanding about. How antiquated and how biased indiscriminating is and how disrespectful it is. And people just get so condition to it that they just turn the other cheek the way managers used to talk about other players are An Empire you know either feminizing them or you know a calling the names that sex's Pino we used to turn it a cheek in those days are over and I think that players have seen discipline handed out when disparaging and bigoted comments Have you been author Sissy premeditated and that by large every player understands what MLB's message of acceptance is all about in why we want everyone to feel comfortable to walk through the turnstiles and enjoy a big game it's very much the same as a couple years ago. Adam Jones you know did such a brave. Brave thing we finally stood up and said I am not going to let these people comedies, racist names anymore and and baseball it was. There was an understanding that that happened here there but then we started listening to our African American players and realize that this is. Happening all the time and we had to take a stand acknowledged. And and make changes and made the fans held accountable when they will never be invited back because we don't want that environment no players should be subjected to that type of dialogue and it's the same thing for homophobic commentary and you know it's it doesn't happen overnight but I can assure you that there's so much consideration in resources time and effort on. Making environment for everyone to feel comfortable in a big league game and I think that the players have noticed that I think you could probably You know I'd love to ask you one hundred questions about you know the big league life inside the clubhouse where. We've changed the way that you guys talk to each other because our managers starting up at the top leadership general managers are owners They have made that a determination that this is the way we're going to go about it anymore. You know that was all acceptable You know when I played man, you can say whatever you want. You know it just was the way it was and there was no ramification for that in the have changed for the better in that regard. Hartley because. Of exposure right now, we are in the Social Media Age where? It's hard to not be exposed to everything all the time. So whereas a player might not have actually met a gay person in their life, they might not have any friends that are in the Lgbtq community but. You've seen enough at this point to know what's Okay and what's not okay to say for the most part I I will say like. I still hear things. I was telling Tony Kemp as. I remember back in two thousand, fifteen, I made it an initiative minded if I heard if I heard a homophobic fraser slur or joke. I was just GonNa say that's not okay. We can't do that. And it becomes, you know at least a little bit of a something cutting through just the noise of this is normal. This is normal. This is normal and I think a racial perspective. We've had such a rich history like you said of African American and Latino players in baseball throughout our history and just having all of those players around all the time I think naturally. Or naturally breaks through some of that So that racial bias that people have. Definitely I would say calling that until two thousand, eighteen, we had a three young high profile. Players Josh Hater trae Turner Sean Newcomb. They were subjected to a lot of athletes are subjected to where people keep an eye on you as you're coming up through the ranks and they go look in your social media history a catalog, and they hold onto it for when you make your big splash into the national stage and. All three of those athletes This is one of the jobs that I have is sort of a point person in sensitivity training in really trying to get to the. Understand why the situation may have occurred and all three of these cases were similar and that those they their social media tweets and they had multiple. Hosts from six and seven years ago you can think about that. They did not even know that they were there any of the players themselves but my point is, is that all three of them have only made homophobic and sexist comments in their social media feeds nobody would have made a big deal about it but they made racist comments alongside of them and those three players had to walk back. Into that clubhouse they play for and one of the most amazing things I ever saw with my own eyes in baseball was the brewers have asked me to come in and meet with Josh. Meet with the media he was coming back as his comments were revealed during the All star break of two thousand eighteen and I. Watched Lorenzo Cain. Walkover in a live press conference in put his arm around Josh. Until him that he he forgave his teammate because he knows that that's not the person he is now and I honestly think It may have saved his career I mean the pressure wave Josh I saw with my own eyes how bad he felt embarrassed by something that he authored seven years before when he was not a professional athlete but the rentals generosity, there was truly I mean. It gives me goosebumps to this day because he did not have to do and that team had has done amazingly well since then and I think he saved the ball club to could have torn apart. The clubhouse says you could probably imagine. In Josh has electrified career in front of him, he's in amazing hitter and he was being defined by his absolute worst moment. But my point is, is that when you mix racist comments because of baseball's history in the space but for me part of my education programming that all three of those, the way guys used to brag about you know. or A woman in the? Stands. You know that was the those days are over. You know invest you want to bring the whole world into your lap and start talking about why you're sexist. Bias towards women. So I think that you know like you said representation seeing more and more women sports we hire six women as coaches who are GonNa be in the dugouts one of the major leagues Eliza, a Knockin with the San Francisco giants that's going to shift that part of the conversation in until the day that we have a lgbt player who's willing to bring in conversation into their life we're still going to have to battle the. Reality that a lot of players are never going to have intersected with the gay person on a day to day basis until maybe later on in their lives true at a lot of things end up. China's coming down at a lot of ways kind of come down to players policing themselves. You know as a player like that's a mantra that's always repeated over and over again while the players the players will police themselves I'll take him don't police themselves. But from my experience and probably your experiences while. You can't police something that you don't know you're doing Brian can't police something that isn't wrong. Well, that's exactly what actually wrong thing at that point. Yes. I mean, it's like a understanding as parent you know your child is going to make a mistake until they learn otherwise and I think that especially you think about players who have players from Korea from Japan you know from fifteen different countries in. South. America from all the United States Canada Caribbean. Culturally everyone is coming from a different place and you throw those people together and then you have it there twenty one years old and they've been doing playing baseball their whole lives and all of sudden you know they got a nice. Place to live in the big city, and there's a lot of really interesting people in them and they have all these different influences in there's it's very ripe for. Opportunity, for bad things to happen, and I think that you know going into you know my my strategy has always been that we have to assume that they don't know very much and let's let's make it real easy at the beginning, and let's have some really strong consistent values that were providing. have some repetition there, and then until they're ingrained in and understood in a way that they can make those considerations for themselves. I agreement I'm I'm looking forward I'm looking forward to the day where that is just the everyday reality in baseball because as I've said, a million times I'm a huge baseball fan I. Love the Game I love the people in the Games in the most interesting people I've ever met in my life. Have Been Baseball players or. Baseball reporters or broadcasters, coaches and. Like you said, we come from all aspects of life all over the world in every different background possible. I. I always feel like if there's a place where acceptance is a natural has a natural path. Baseball is that place? So I'm looking forward to that. Well I think. It's important to know that you know this cultural amazing cultural shift. It's we've all witnessed since the horrific murder of George Floyd. Social, justice initiatives that baseball. is going to great lengths to provide resources to our players is another indication of us. Wanting to do better in understanding and I think this is a very exciting time. For players that are going to have the support of their organizations in their communities to use their platform for good and I think that you are a shining example of somebody who has. Already taken advantage of that opportunity and how effective it can be I think that they're going to see. We're going to see some great leaders emerged over the next couple of years I. You know like I said, the scale of baseball is daunting the turnover. Aside from this year, you know with the amount of players that are drafted each year, the new players coming in in two thousand nineteen, we have eight thousand men wearing a professional baseball jersey somewhere in the world. and. So the task is big to take care of that responsibility of educating them, keeping them healthy, helping them, improve giving them an opportunity to realize their talent, and then there's all those stingy seven fifty jobs. Now we got a seven, hundred, seventy, six, I think that took thirty, twenty, six, one, morning she seven. Eighty jobs. This year is of amaze for all of us right now, I don't know how we got thirty to start. Decision, but my point is is they're not everybody makes to the major leagues. It's it's a privilege you should feel so proud of yourself for the crave carved out for yourself in continued to do. So in my dream for everybody is that you know when their career's over, they walk away and really can say that they gave it everything they had and they didn't do anything off the field to the detriment that put after your jeopardy i. Feel. Great contentment in their life and that's something that I have had to live with an except that I wasn't able to do that and I didn't trust my family at entrust my friends and I brought all of it on my own but I wasn't equipped with the what I am now and I think that I I'm always going to be a person back. Then a little bit and why I'm protective of the players always from the out from the start at that, we need to give them a chance. They all are very, very fortunate to be playing in stained age because if if we can get past this pandemic in back to what normal Houston feel like for all of us you know the facilities, he opportunities. The information you guys have a available to yourselves. It's just so exciting as a former player in I'm a big Fan of baseball to on I I. Love It. I love watching the Games I'm still amazed at. How hard guys are throwing now, these five or six guys can throw that hard. When I play in, it's It's something to watch the founders. I don't know if I would have got into the game getting around long I had if I was trying to break right now. It's amazing to think that it's changing that quickly and how also think one of the interesting Differences is my generation. They loved when we played a bunch of sports because they knew it would be good athletes and there was a longer learning curve in the minors. You have guys coming up in twenty seven nobody thought that that was a terrible indictment or some the embarrassed about. And those days wrote kids are playing baseball. You know from singularly seven or eight, and now it seems like we can tell players in big into the big leagues by the time they're eighteen or nineteen. Just because of the way. They look when they're running or throwing her swinging back. So it's IT'S A it. It's an amazing time and I think that the fans. You know you see Perry records but that the athletes are amazing. Now you guys really have taken the game to a new level and I I feel so privileged to be a part of our sport and I look at it as an amazing opportunity I don't take one day for granted I feel like I need to. Contribute each and every day I'm always looking for ways to impact the players in a positive win. So lots to look forward to super hopeful that July twenty third twenty four happens safely for everybody. I think we're all looking forward to that date. A summer camp is underway now where pushing forward. damned the weather. I've one other question for years not a serious question at all but we ask everybody who's on here. The last thing that you listened to whenever you opened up your music streaming apps choice or record or whatever it was. What was it? I got a great well. I have been running to a bunch of podcast lately, but I have to say the last song was emigrate hit streaming players of Sam Smith dancing with a stranger. Good Summit on makes happy. We all need a little of right now. So listen to whatever you can get a realistic Sam Smith get happy enjoy baseball 'cause it's coming back ability. Thanks again for being here. We really appreciate it. Your perspective is so important I wish you the best of luck this year and Get to chat again. Calling. Thank you for the invitation. You've got a great show. got a huge future after baseball and anytime that you want me to come on more than happy to do Sabi listening stay healthy and stay safe and my best to your family.

baseball Major League Detroit Tigers Glenn Burke Commissioner Baseball Baseball America Red Sox Billy Billy Bean AIDS MLB astros David basketball Los Angeles Chris Donald San Diego dodgers
Effectively Wild Episode 1512: Lets Predict This Decade

Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast

1:08:03 hr | 1 year ago

Effectively Wild Episode 1512: Lets Predict This Decade

"Good morning and welcome to episode fifteen twelve effectively wild the baseball podcast on Vandross DOT com a brought to you by Howard Patriot supporters. I am Sam Miller. Espn along with Ben. Lindberg of the Ring Ben. Hello I was just looking at the. Rbi totals of the two thousand fourteen padres and as what does particularly the outfield. I mean we don't we don't talk much about RBI's but we still do know the basics of like what is a good number of RBI's season. We don't talk much best of two thousand fourteen. And so these are the four padres who had the most plate appearances as as out feelers for the team that year will venable played one hundred forty six games and he drove in thirty three runs at very low right. Thirty three runs for a rightfielder reports defensive replacement at times. Is that way so many games now was he actually starting all the time? I mean he he okay a little bit of. It's it's less fun to point out that he only had four hundred and forty eight plate appearances but he did at four hundred and forty eight plate appearances and he's still only drove in thirty three runs. He added to twenty four to eighty eight three twenty five slash line. So he was he was quite poor as a right fielder. And then cameron may been played half a season he drove in fifteen. And then you have kristen orpheus. He played half a season. He drove in sixteen in the fourth player. In who played outfield for them. The most was Seth Smith and Seth Smith was very good he had a one thirty four opium plus and he played. He actually qualified for the batting title yet. Five hundred twenty one plate appearances with phobias. Plus like did that for your whole career. He'd be a hall of Famer and he drove in forty eight. And so I bring this up. Just because the San Diego padres in two thousand fourteen got a combined hundred and forty one. Rbi's from all of their outfielders. Everybody who was playing in the outfield and that is the lowest in a full season in the D. H. Era. But here's the fun fact that is lower than any teams outfield in the strike shortened. Nineteen Ninety Four season ended on August eighth and every single team beat the two thousand fourteen padres. Outfield or runs batted in. I guess I should say that. Every team that year outscored the padres also lowered five hundred. Thirty five runs as a team so no wonder was driving and runs because no one was scoring any so I guess that was a combination of not a great offensive team. Plus Pete Petco at that point. So that was probably. I don't know if that was a historically low run toto. It sounds like it's very low. Yeah that's like that's like That mariners he. Rbi leader for the team. Had I don't know why mayors I'm referring specifically to the two thousand I think thirteen mariners. Why that's a reference. Anybody would immediately get the two thousand thirteen mariners being the worst offense I can think of but the team leader for rb is that year for the padres had fifty one in. Yeah he had a seventy eight. Opiates plus not great. Yes the twenty fourteen fighters or the third lowest scoring team of the wildcard era behind the two thousand thirteen. Marlins actually the lowest scoring team and then the two thousand ten mariners off twenty ten okay and then the twenty eleven mariner. Yeah after the PADRES and I'm sure you wouldn't have to look too far down the West defined more manners teams there but yeah as you say. I'll fun facts lie and I guess this is a case of this one lying because If whole team doesn't score runs than it's not quite as impressive individual players. Don't drive in runs but it's still add. What led you to be looking at the. Rbi totals of two thousand fourteen padres. Today I truly do not now. Yes that just happens sometimes. Yeah I don't know it's great question. Yeah all right so we're GONNA talk about how to win a million dollars. Yeah on this episode so an ob dot com has something called the one million dollar vault challenge. Which I have not. I've been looking at this for a few days and I have not yet figured out why it's called the vault challenge outside. I don't know the name of it but it is a fun project in which you can pick. Who in Major League Baseball is going to lead the majors in home runs over the next decade in hits over the next decades and seven other categories and whoever is the closest after ten years will win a million dollars? If they are well you have to have a certain minimum. Basically the minimum will get to that but this is a fantastic fun thing to think about for a partly because it gives us a chance to look at. Who won last the last decade? Who would have won the last decade? If you've done this and then to try to imagine picking all those people and I mean baseball is obviously extremely unpredictable and so if you look back at the last decade there's a lot there that's unpredictable. I never would have predicted it but I think we then sometimes forget to apply that to our own predictions and we do still think that certain things are obvious and self evident and so when you asked me to pick the next decade I think well that's easy like I could definitely do this. I like it's not hard to say that might try is going to be good over the next decade but then you just go back and look at the last decade and you realize how many things were self evident and did not come remotely true and how many things were totally Adelaide. Feel that did end up coming true. So we're GONNA. What are we going to pay? We're going to each pick. We're GONNA reveal. Our ballot are pick. I mean the the first spoiling our chances of winning a million dollars by letting everyone know what we're picking argue actually throwing people off the scent. Are you actually going to? I have not actually entered and I probably will not I was tempted to just because it gives me something to follow for the next decade and kind of root for but all of my picks in things when I am forced to make predictions tend to be just so Chaki that it's not like I'm going to go way off the board probably and be the only person who takes the guy who ends up having the most hits or whatever so I'm not gonNA win anything anyway. I am curious about how many people will win period in addition to just who will win these categories. But I don't know how many people will enter when you think about it as you said it sounds sort of easy to do in that. It's easy to make predictions like it's easy to probably pick the most likely candidate. I think but you also have to be aware that the most likely candidate is still an underdog compared to the field and so even if you make the smart pick the right pick the highest probability pick. You'll probably still be wrong about most of the stuff. Yeah Yeah it's true. I just I. If I'm reading the actuarial tables correctly I have a three percent chance of dying before this is even revealed and so I do have to think like do. I want to commit to giving my email address to another to another another source and remembering password and all those things for something that there's a decent chance that I also believe that I was using an e mail address in two thousand ten that I no longer have access to that. I no longer know the password. Four and the retrieval password goes to a previous email address that I also no longer have access to so. There's a real possibility that you would win the small but a real possibility that you would win in the not even be able to claim this prize so that would be very frustrating so I looked back at the last decade and tried to imagine how likely it would be that you would pick these things so I don't know if you also did something similar to this well. Mlb Did do the work for us and who listed right they would have won. I tried to put myself in the mind. Space of a baseball podcast. Her on the two thousand ten season. Yahoo was doing this and so I did try to do this. Because patriot listener. Virus James wrote in to call attention to this and ask us to do our picks and he had a couple of highlights. In their of how weird it would have been to pick the winners in this decade. Which you're probably just about to talk about. But like some of them very weird and it's not that weird but even the ones that look normal now would have been less likely I think than like for instance Clayton Kershaw Actually Clayton Kershaw Clayton kershaw would have won four. A most cy young awards and most all star selections and you could easily go. Oh yeah well. He was twenty two. He was coming off of a sterling first full season. He had been in elite prospect. Those are very natural picks for the awards and yet Tommy Hansen was essentially the same as Clayton. Kershaw at that point. Tommy Hansen was also any league prospect in fact at his peak was ranked fourth whereas Kershaw at his prospect peak ranked fifth. I believe they were the same age and Tom. Hansen had just come off a sterling rookie season and if you look at the pagoda projections for the two thousand ten season. In fact Tommy Hanson projected to be slightly better than Clayton. Kershaw that year. And so you it's not like Kershaw was the only smart option Tommy and also would have seemed like a smart option and of course Tommy Hanson will now Tummy Hanson. Tragically passed away a few years ago. But the you know his career also had been cut very short by shoulder injuries before that. And so it's you know like this is hard. This is hard to predict so all right so I have. We have the the winners from the previous decade. So I'm just GONNA go down those and talk about first of all where that person was at the time it before two thousand ten and secondly who you would have picked if you had been in this head space exactly ten years ago. So one of the categories is most home runs. The winner was Nelson Cruz so Nelson Cruz. Before two thousand ten had just played his first full season he was twenty eight years old actually going to be twenty nine years old and he had just played his first full season. He wasn't that good. He had a one seventeen ups plus as a right fielder. And so you would have thought okay. He's a he like he's a fine player. He's going to have a six year career. Three or four of them are going to be pretty good yet. Never in a million years very safely say would not stick. No some Chris Without you actually almost certainly would have picked. Prince fielder so prince fielder. At the time was young. He was very young. I think he was like twenty four. He had the second most home runs in baseball over the previous three seasons and he was projected to lead the majors in home runs that year in two thousand ten. So you have the youngest credible home run leader of the group and also projected to already be the best home run hitter of of all the available players you would have picked prince fielder and as it turns out. Prince fielder finished sixty second in home runs and he would have gotten zero points for this award. I wonder actually how late into the tech aid. I would have continued not to pick Nelson Cruz because probably like half the dockage right because in the last couple years he had a sizeable lead. I suppose that I would have said. Yeah okay he has it now but even when he signed with Seattle everyone thought. Oh bad contract right. Oh Yeah yes thirty four. He's A. D. H. She's going to age poorly and they'll regret this deal. And instead he did not decline at all and of course in two thousand nineteen for the twins he somehow had career which is incredible but yes I mean when he signed with Seattle. Everyone discounted him then. He was great with Seattle and each year just became harder and harder to believe that he would not decline at all which he is not to this point and so. I guess I'd have to look at like the running total of the decade to know exactly when he crossed the line after two thousand seventeen so eight years into the decade he was still trailing Jose Bautista and the same age about Easter Kay he was trailing Edwin encarnacion and two years older than Edwin encarnacion and he was one home run and nine years of age ahead. Giancarlo Stanton so at that point. If you'd had to pick this in two thousand seventeen there is no doubt at all. Two thousand seventeen you would have picked stanton. He was so obviously the right answer. He was coming off a fifty nine home. Run season after two thousand. Eighteen was tied with Stanton so going into last year. You would not have picked Nelson Cruz. I don't believe no I don't think so. By the way Edwin encarnacion finishes second. Let's see where Edwin encarnacion was going to do that? One ten season he was he had just been picked up on waivers by the Blue Jays and had had a nine ninety one. Ps Plus as a twenty six year old in two thousand and nine can't predict baseball. The ABEN actually. Well Geez was he actually know that he was sorry he was he had been traded to the Blue Jays? It was a year later that he was picked up by the Blue Jays on waivers so in two thousand ten somehow he ended up on the as the as picked him up off waivers from the Blue Jays after two thousand ten and then they released him twenty days later and he signed with the Blue Jays so that was a year into anyway you would have picked prince fielder. It would have been wrong. You Stanton by the way at that. Point was a good prospect. He was like a prospect in the twenties thirties. But I don't think he would've tabbed him at that point so there you go all right so crews you're saying we we wouldn't have picked cruise until a year ago basically to win this. That's great okay. All right so hits you probably over. The winner was Robinson Canal and Canal would have been a very credible pick. Yeah that's that's a pretty predictable. When he was about to play his age twenty seven season so he was not old he had just had a two hundred and four hit season and he projected to be tied for the second most hits in Baseball in two thousand ten right behind each row. And so you very likely might have picked out but I think you would actually pick Dustin Pedroia who was a little younger who was projected to have the same number of hits in two thousand ten and who. I just think you would have picked overnight. It would have been razor thin and you could've picked either one so maybe you would have gotten that one right but I think probably you would have picked. Pedroia and Padre finished forty. Sixth in the decade would get you know points and the numbers two three and four in the decade. Where Nick Marcus Adam Jones and Starling Castro? So they all would have gotten you points. That's A. That's a pretty predictable. One we can call that one gettable K. So we have one gettable won. Mvp awards you would have picked. Let's see you would have picked either album pools or Ryan Braun album? Google would have been the pick for he. Currently the best player in baseball. He was winning all the awards at that point. No sign whatsoever of decline Going into two thousand ten and into thousand and ten. He finished yet. Actually he had won the previous two. He finished second in two thousand ten. You would have picked him. Perhaps quite possibly thinking that you get a couple in the early thirty by that point was thirty and zero sign of decline. You might have thought okay. I can squeeze too or so out of his early happen decade. Maybe I'll get lucky. And yet three because he had already won three and he finished second three times he was might trout but a little older than my good two years older than Mike. Trout is now yes and arguably not as age proof a skill set. I guess you could say but are actually not but also first basement doesn't have to do much you know. He's not he's not as likely to lose a step. You know his bat holds. He's not asked to run around like he's not going to get knocked down a position on the defensive spectrum light my trout might be but All right core holes last few steps he did at what point he lost about thirty steps. Yeah got a few back. That was a I did see. It hasn't running remember. Yeah it was literally a running thing for pool halls. Run out at first base surprised. In retrospect that you did that that you didn't feel it was a cruel or just made you feel bad or something but I enjoyed it at the time. Yeah he was obviously hurt. And that's why didn't feel quite cruel. He was running in a lot of pain. And it was a tracking I was. I went through a period where I was really visible pain like I. I wrote a bunch of pieces about pain manifesting on D. V. screens so I was into the idea of watching players. You know being in agony and he was Ryan. Braun would have probably been the young player option here. He had played three years in the majors finished in. Mvp voting three times three years in a row and projected extremely well that year so you might have picked him. Although you might have also picked Grady sizemore you might have met David. David Wright was there at the time and still still quite good show power. Was there and stop by good. Hanley Ramirez was there and still quite good. You might have really been ahead of things in picked. Bryce Harper who was a year away from the draft. I believe but I'm thinking Ryan Bronner Albert Bulls. Neither of them would have gotten you points Ryan. Brunn did win one and finished second once. And like I said Albert Bulls finished second. The actual answer was Mike Trout. Who at the time was the number fifty three prospect in baseball? So you never would have picked him out of that. That grows what seventeen he was able or something just turned eighteen and in his entire career. He played five games in front of people like he had a high school career. Any had a complex league stint that summer the previous summer in the Arizona only and then he had five games in a ball for Cedar rapids so basically he had played five games in front of a crowd and had two hundred and seven minor. League played appearances. He was not yet. I think two or three months maybe even less than that into the two thousand ten season. It was clear that he was maybe one of the two or three best prospects in baseball but it was not quite yet so you would not pick might drought. Who of course won this category? Most All Star Games. I think I think they're probably would have picked out or pools this knowing that he's very famous he's GonNa Start a whole bunch in a row before his decline even starts and that would have been the wrong pick the actual 's trout who we just talked about Clayton Kershaw and Yada Molina. Who had just made his first all star game in two thousand nine and he had gotten MVP votes for the first time so he was established as a very good player. That was his first year as an average hitter though. I don't think you saw probably would've seen him aging as well as he did or growing into a well above average hitter. But you know he was there. Conceivable World Series titles. Yep You would've picked the Yankees. Yes they did not win. They they had just won the world series and of course they were the Yankees so you would have had to pick the Yankees. They did not win any in the previous decade. The correct answer was the giants of course and put the giants in perspective. They in the next five years when they won three world series. They only finished seventh in the majors. In total wins so even over the stretch where they oneness this category. They were not one of the best teams in baseball. So what have been quite a pick if you pick them somehow Total team wins. You would have picked the Yankees and you've got now right so you are now up to probably if we give you canot you're up to twenty points and you need to have a minimum of thirty six to win. You have to beat everybody in the world but you have to clear a minimum of thirty six points. You get ten points creating the right answers. I should've said this ten points for the right answer seven points if you're pick finishes second four if you're pick finishes third and one if you're pick finishes first so you have to beat everybody else. Who is entered the vault as well as meet a minimum of thirty six points. You so far have if we give you know you have twenty year. Picks otherwise would have gotten zero zero zero zero and that takes us to the pitchers. Three pitching stats. Cy Youngs wins in KS. And I don't know I don't know how you even with distinguish between you pick one pitcher for all three probably would make a lot of sense or you could pick three pitchers for those three. I think that either way Tim Linzie. Gum is definitely getting at least one of these. Four you Lindsey. Graham had just won back to back cy youngs. He was only twenty six. He projected way better than any other pitcher on pagoda for two thousand ten like he was like we were concerns about his ability in long term health just because of his size and the wind up in all of that. So maybe you maybe give them some credence to that. Maybe you could have but yeah. I think he would have picked TIM UNSCOM for at least one. Don't you think yeah? Not only at? He just went back to back cy young awards. In his first two seasons he had led the League in strikeouts both years. Have you not that yet? Andy was still young. Young but not like Injury Next Young. So you pick wins again for one. I think you probably picked Strasburg for one. Strasburg was in the minors at that point. It had been drafted the previous season. So you might pick Strasburg for one and then I you know you might end up with a vote for Kershaw. You might end up with the vote for Tommy Hanson. You might end up. I think you'd probably end up with a vote for Felix. Who of course was had been? The you know the most hyped prospect for for years and then He had really put it all together as a big leaguer in two thousand nine. He finished second in Cy young voting. We all thought he has arrived. And I think probably would have been probably the pick for the two thousand ten cy young the next year and he actually wanted and so he probably would have picked to be like so my. I'm GONNA GIVE YOU STRASBURG FOR CY young. I'm GonNa give you Felix for winds nominative. You Lindsey Graham ks and doesn't matter because you get no points. Bernie of them The actual answer like I said was Kershaw. Hide for Cy Young. And the other three were all won by next. Sherzer and Sherzer was a credible iming sore. Like he would've been a name. You would have gone past thought about briefly but at that point he had just finished his first full season. He wasn't quite the prospect that Kershaw Hanson had been. He had been not as good in his first full season and he was only projected to be the fifteenth best pitcher in baseball in two thousand ten whereas the others were all projected to be a little better than right away. He was a little older and I think you would have been. You know right that he was not A. He was not on the cusp of greatness. At that point he did not get a single cy young mention until the fourth year of the decade. So it took a long time before he sure one of these categories late in the decade in the second half of the decade much more than in the first half of the decade. So I don't think you would've named shirts and so that's where we are you. You basically had not not only. Are you not going to beat a million other people who are going to be in but even the sheep meadow minimum? They set of like well. We have to have somebody who gets something right somewhere along the line. You wouldn't even have that. You wouldn't even get thirty six points. I don't think if you'd looked at the prospects and said I'm going prospects besides Strasbourg the top prospects of the time. Jason Heyward Pedro Alvarez Desmond Jennings Chris Carter so you. Those were all top ten prospects. I Guess Carter was number eleven that year so those are the top ten hitting prospects so even the sure thing hitters were not. We're not GONNA get there. It's tough to pick prospects for this. You might be right picking a prospect that might turn out to be. The right answer would have been in trump's case but of course as you said trump would not have been the prospect that you would have picked at that point and when you're picking a prospect usually spotting them a season or two or you're spotting their competitors a season or two because unless they're ready to make their major league debut then they're not going to get started for a while and they're going to start out from behind and have to come back and there's just so much uncertainty surrounding most prospects. It's a little more likely that it's probably going to be a big leaguer. Someone who is already made it to the majors and pass that consulate. So I may pick a prospect in this one we shall see but it would not typically be the pick but yeah in other words of what you just said to sum it up. We're going to be wrong about most of what we're about to say but that said I didn't find as I was going through these picks that was wrestling with that many options. Because again like there will be a Nelson Cruz and there will be at trout and there will be people that we never saw coming. But we can't see him coming so we're GONNA pick him. Yes exactly. There's nothing to wrestle with. We know the answers right now. We're like very confident that we know what's going to happen over the next ten. We're constantly surprised. The baseball is as unpredictable as is and we say all the time how unpredictable is but then when you ask the guys what what's going to happen like there's so many things that we think that we can take for granted that we just believe that we know them to be true and it's not just that there's a lot of things that are hard to predict in baseball. It's the things that are easy to predict are generally hard to predict. You know you gotta get lows you into a sense of of believing that you know something. Yes ended up going to be right about anything but I I think I'm right about the picks that have just still going to be wrong. I don't think I yeah I agree. I don't think I'm going to be right about anything but I also I don't think that I mean I still look at the answer and I think that's the right answer yes like I. Don't there's something in my brain that is not like there's no flashing red light there. That says the obvious answer is wrong and I don't know what you do. I mean if you think that the obvious answer is probably going to be wrong than like you say. It's not like okay. Well then I'm just GONNA go pick the one obvious answer out of you know hundreds of obvious possibilities like Nelson Cruz. There were other Nelson cruises. There were well Kinda. There were various Nelson cruises. Floating around. There are always twenty eight year olds in AAA or twenty. Twenty eight year olds. Having kind of good breakout seasons and you have to pick the right one out of all of them but that said that said. I'm going to get all these okay. It's called the vault. Because the money's at default right they're keeping the million dollars in the Well the graphic designed for this has the Major League Baseball logo and then it says the vault and the A has a vault door twisting knob on it and then it has the categories below. It in each of those is a vault. So they're they're suggesting that the stats are in a volt. Yes this is like the are they say like. Maybe they're keeping our our our ballots in a vault that could be This is a million dollars for for everyone. Everyone who while it's jealous top-scoring person and if if there's a tie I assume they would split it right. I've been reading the the rules and I don't know what the Tiebreaker is. But there are. There are various tiebreakers. Okay listen there's only one grand prize winner in the Grand Prize winner. Gets a million dollars all right. I wonder if this is a million dollars in present-day dollars. Probably not so in the event of a tie for the Grand Prize. The first tiebreaker is points scored for challenge number one in second point to where for number two and so on. So if you'RE GONNA go get one right you WANNA get the first one right okay. So they actually have Every decades past winners on this page which? I didn't even notice that the most recent ticket I would point out one thing about this so they have every decades past winners in some of these you can break these into three categories. There's the ones that are individual stats. There's the ones that are individual achievements like MVP awards cy young awards all star selections and. Then there's the team wants and so if you just look at the individual stats home runs and wins and all all that virtually every player on this page is a hall of Famer almost every single one. Now there's a couple of exceptions here. One exception is mark. Grace was the hits leader in the nineties mark. Maguire was the homers leader in the nineties. But I think there's a I think I think if Mark Maguire had had never been tainted by the steroids he probably would have made it. Although he's not a slam dunk but virtually every other one is in here. And of course we know that. With like the Jack Morris. So much of his case was that he led the the majors in wins in the nineteen eighties in that got repeated over and over and over again even in fact during his career I was I just read lords of the realm. It's mentioned that it came up in his arbitration hearing in in one thousand eighty seven or maybe it was free agency in nineteen eighty seven. He was already talking about how he had been the winningest pitcher of the decade. In nine hundred. Eighty seven through nineteen eighty-seven so this is like a constant thing and yet I just want to point out the Andy. Pettitte is the winds leader for the two thousands so that should be talked about more people. Want him in the hall of fame. Okay Got Jack Morrison. I don't know why we're not talking about Andy. Pettitte having more wins than anybody else in the nineteen nineties. Did we do a whole city? So now Andy Pettitte should be a hall of Famer and you didn't mention that I didn't even know it. That's probably your best case. Didn't even know exactly. Okay all right to the Romans amazing but hearing this has not read it. I reread it a year ago and talk to the author wrote about it. And it's just so could you know now's not to bring it up but I'm gonNA bring it up next offseason with CB Taco be going crazy and so on so next offseason. We should do a book club on this show of that book with any mccalla who is named it his best the best baseball book of all time. And maybe others okay. I revisited last year because of all the free agency stuff and the Labor tensions and all that but that will continue to be relevant. So all right all right. Oh shall we do this? Let's do it okay. So home runs. Who's your pick for home runs? Ronald Kunia Ronald Kunia. Okay I'm going. With cody bellinger. Yup that was my second pick. Oh that's good to know so nothing fancy there. I'm going with the twenty three year old. Who set the all time? Rookie homerun record three years ago. And who then hit didn't lead but was nearly led. The League in home runs last year. Seems Pretty Easy? Yup It's a good pick. That was my gut pick. Initially was cody bellinger. And then I thought well a Kunia hit one less homer than Bellenger Ted or something. This past year I forget what he ended up at but I know that he is He thinks he's going for fifty fifty so he thinks he has more power in any two and a half years younger than bellinger which may not make a difference. Maybe bellinger's young enough at this point that he'll still be productive throughout the decade. But you know by the end of the Decade Hilby. What thirty four or something and a thirty two? And maybe that makes something of a difference and I don't know that Their power potential or their power. Whatever is really all that different so it was close for me. Bellinger it. Six more home runs in a Kunia. This year is way ahead. Well those don't count all right. I don't have anything to say about that okay. Was there anyone else you even considered or I only wrote one name for each of these categories. Okay except for I guess with one exception and then I guess there's a there's one that I haven't decided yet I will decide minute. All right hits well this is maybe my riskiest pick but I received my baseball America. Prospect Handbook in the mail today and so sitting on my desk. Staring at me is cover. Boy Wander Franco and I'm GONNA take him which I just said that you probably shouldn't take prospects all that often. But he seems to be an unparalleled prospect at this point. He's just the consensus top prospect in baseball. No matter where you look you ask and it seems like he has. The skill sets to be agreed. Pick in this category. Because he puts the ball in play a ton he doesn't strike out he hits for high averages he walks but he doesn't walk like one. Soto so it won't necessarily be a huge impediment. He has some power and may eventually develop more power but probably not so much that he would be hitting lower in the lineup. So he'll probably still be a top of the lineup guy who'd be getting a lot of play appearances and he's obviously extremely young. He'll be basically in his peak prime production for the entire decade. He just turned nineteen and the risk other than the fact that he has not played above able is that he's not going to be in the big leagues the season. I guess it's not inconceivable that he could get there at the end of the year but most likely he's a twenty twenty one guy and so all the other people I considered picking will have a head start on him so that gave me pause. But I don't know it's fun to pick a prospect so I'm going with wonderful. Yeah I mean I feel like I'M GONNA pick a prospect. Maybe I've considered a prospect for another one but it's really hard to make up a loss year on the stat ones. Where like if you're GonNa if you're picking prospect for cy youngs or MVP's than you don't necessarily need to have all ten years on your resume as like for instance might trout. Didn't because you're only. You only need three of those years to really do it for you. You could theoretically debut in twenty twenty seven and still win the MVP's category but hits it's really tough so all of these stat categories were won by people who were a going concern every year of of the decade. Who were regulars and who were at least full timers for the entire decade? But I guess the argument that you can punt a year is that Robertson. Cano missed half a year with PD suspension and missed. Almost half last year In Zo. He did give away almost a full year and he still he still wanted. And you know my guess is. He actually probably win by. I was GONNA say he probably one by a fair amount. I'm checking right now. If he didn't win by a fair amount he definitely placed by a fair amount because I imagine he has a lot more hits than starling. Castro who finished fourth. He won by forty four. Hits over Nick Marquess in he was He was he was one hundred. Hits ahead of fifth place so it's a pretty pretty good amount. Okay wonderful I would not I would not have picked a process was the one that was hardest for me in my head. Maybe like three other guys who were neck for me so okay. Well I picked Vladimir Guerrero junior who is young and who you know Jeff One of one of the later pieces that Jeff Road I think at fan graphs was about how Vladimir Guerrero junior was going to get more at bats than late. How he was. What would he was like the best bet to break a hit streak record or have an extra long hit streak? Because he a projects to have really high batting averages he had an incredibly high batting averages as a minor leaguer and he puts the ball in play and he does not walk hardly ever and so he's going to have a lot of at bats and a lot of at bats going to lead to a lot of hits and he's only twenty one and so so I picked him. Now I mean there are ways that the name just now for the actual hits record or the hits leaders in the ninety in the two thousand ten's are no was a good hitter in for part of the decade was a very scary power hitter but canal and then Marquess Jones starring Castro. In Elvis Andrus was fifth. And for the most part you're not talking about super fearsome hitters so there might be something about like you WanNa pick a player. Who's not too good because you don't WanNa get walked and you also don't want them to be trying to hit a lot of home runs because they can and so maybe guerrero is too good. Maybe Falko is too good or maybe a trend that I just noted with those top five means nothing yet. Guerrero had be worried that eventually like if he blossoms into a fifty homer guy or something then he's GonNa get pitched around. Maybe that hurts you but I considered Francisco endure twenty. Six was a little too old for me to do it but I I thought about it seriously. And then I strongly considered Ozzie who I like a lot and also Rafael Devers. Who both of those guys are. Extremely Young Denver's is twenty three obvious still twenty two. I believe well no. I'll twenty three now. Also but but those guys young enough diverse has only been really very good for a year in the big leagues but was expected to be good for long before that so I think any of them would be smart picks. Yeah I looked at the projected hits leaders for this year in it's mostly either rockies or players who are twenty seven or older who? I wanted to sort of stay away from or David Fletcher and so I thought about Linda too and I thought about Tim Anderson as well and I just decided I wanted younger. So Vladimir Guerrero junior is projected to have the fifteenth most HITS IN BASEBALL THIS YEAR. And he's much much much younger than everybody ahead of him. So that was my thinking. Okay all right Winds pitcher wins. Yes so there are. Three pitcher categories wins K. As a young awards then. I think I'm going to be pretty boring here because I might just pick the same person for all of them or I was kind of going back and forth between really to pitchers pitchers for each of these categories which is sort of A bummer. I guess it'd be nice if I could differentiate these but I don't really know how to do it. I guess if you had someone who was really good but on a terrible team. Maybe you wouldn't pick him to be the winds leader and maybe if there was someone who you thought was really good but was not a strikeout monster you you might pick him to win cy. Young awards wins or something but not strike outs. But then again. Like best pitchers were the ones that you would predict to be the best over a decade. They're going to be getting a Lotta strikeouts in just about every case and so I really couldn't talk myself into taking anyone other than one guy for all of these wonder. If it's the same guy my thinking I also picked one one guy in primarily because I'm not interested in finishing in the eighty fifth percentile. I'm not trying to spread my risk out. I WANNA win. Which means I'm I've gotta go all in on on some things in having turn out right so I'm going all three picks with one player I thought about not picking this player for strikeouts and I thought about picking like say maybe Garrett Cole for strikeouts but knowing that the strikeout rate is probably going to keep going up. I thought that there's a pretty good chance that the winner is going to be the person who is still throwing a lot of innings at the end of the decade when strikeout rates are higher and so I thought I don't want to go with twenty nine year old and maybe risk that he's you know not as good or not pitching as much or maybe not pitching it all at the end of the decade and so I went youth. I went good team. I win awesome and I. I don't love 'em for strikeouts but I'm just going with the same name for all three. So who's your name Walker Bueller? Yeah my that's my name too. Yeah Right Hatha Pretty Boring. It's like dodgers are really good. And he's really good in his young and he's not two elite strike out guy in this era up but these are very good. Strikeout guy and by the Tigers are smart. I know they do a lot of work with injury. Prevention then obviously player development so I trust them about as much as anyone else to keep him healthy and get the most out of his talent and he hasn't been horribly overworked or anything hasn't had an injury history so yeah. I didn't really see a reason not to go with them. The only other person I strongly considered was flaherty. Did you think about him? Yeah Yeah Yeah that's about it. So and ultimately I just figured well dodgers probably better than cardinals and I don't know maybe more strikeouts with fewer i. I guess there's a big difference there but that was the whole thought process for me. Yeah ten years ago we did not know the opener was coming at all. It wasn't even. I mean we didn't even know that the shift was going like at the time. The shift was just barely starting to spread widely and so I thought what what are the odds that in ten years starting pitchers on some teams aren't getting wins am I potentially risking but not too complicated too complicated to handle. Who Even knows what team any of these players are going to be on in five years so Justin verlander wants to pitch. Tilles forty five right. So maybe it'll be Justin verlander. Maybe it will be Justin. Justin verlander was second in wins for this decade and coming into the decade. He was already fairly old rate. I mean older than Bueller is now. I Guess Right in twenty ten he was twenty seven so I guess not that much older. But I don't know that I would have picked him. Did you even mention him as a potential candidate because he was coming off a third place? Cy Young Award winner in two thousand nine. He had not yet won his cy young or either his cy young award so he was not super young and had not been the best pitcher in baseball to that point but he did end up finishing one win behind. Max Scherzer for the most wins in that decade and screw. Where did he come in with the strikeouts he was well? He was significantly behind Sherzer there. But I didn't mention him and I could have. I also had didn't mention and I should have Zach Ranki who projected quite well and was fairly young and I knew that he had had that one amazing year and I did not realize that the one amazing year come in two thousand nine so there would have been a good case for picking Zach Cranky as well over Clayton Kershaw and certainly Max Scherzer. Okay all right so we did wins. We did KS. Mvp Awards. Yeah for this one. I'm going with trout for the sort of same rationale that you said probably we would've taken holes ten years ago except that trump is younger than poor holzen maybe even better than pro holes or at least perhaps more future proof than holes and. He's young enough. Obviously that he should still be good. I mean he may be very good for the entire decade. In fact I sort of expect him be but by the end of it. He'll be in his late thirties and so would not expect them to be winning. Mvp awards at that point but he is probably the to win the MVP award for the next say three years or so and so that alone. I think especially because he does have the fame going for him. And maybe there's a certain point where you've won so many. Mvp awards that. I don't know people want to give it to someone else. But he has established himself as a perennial. Mvp Award winner. And in fact I think it's generally your widely believed that he should have more. Mvp awards than he does and so maybe people will not begrudge additional MVP awards. Casino-like gets a makeup call for the one C. Show one. Yeah he's not just the favourite this year. He has actually favored over the field. He I was looking at odds today and You You have to bet more than you would win On drought to win the MVP award this year. Obviously the answer would be might trout. You're only goal was to pick. Who WAS GONNA win the most? Mvp Awards. I'm trying to win a million dollars and so this was a category where I thought I was going to go. Write in candidate figure. Fi hit with a write in candidate than almost literally. No other person will have that and I get ten points that no one else will have what you have to do. If you're in a big field kind of politeness you have to have some winds that nobody else has otherwise. The Path is just too difficult so I had to go with a write in so my write in candidates came down to Catella Morte fire in Buxton Joe Adele and forget who my adly Richmond thanking. And so I am going to after much thought all day. Today I'm going with Byron Buxton and I know that he's a long shot but you know the story of this thing is that even trout is in fact a long shot. They're all long shots and I'm GONNA go with. The long shot is going to win the million dollars. All right should we. Mention Dense bore skis article last week. Yes so we wanted to bring this up at some point on some episodes so Dan. I guess Shortly after Mike Trout and his wife announced that they are expecting their first child. Dan turned his attention to hike traps. Demise and declines so the the circle of life here? The next trout is coming and this trout will get old and decrepit at some point. So Dan who of course creates maintained and operates the zips projection system turned these zips long-term lens to traps future and also to just how great he has been already which we never tire of talking about and he came up with. Sort of a simple zips kind of like a marcel method of projecting who would have been the best player entering every season or would have had the highest war projection entering every season and trout is now on his eighth consecutive year so every season since two thousand thirteen he has been according to this method or would've been projected to be the best player in baseball and as Dan notes that ties the lounge streak anyone has ever had as the reigning top work. I going into spring. So Barry Bonds from nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety nine was always. The top were projector and if trout gets one more year. He'll have the longest uninterrupted run. Which is really kind of incredible and Babe. Ruth had ten seasons and bonds head eleven seasons at the top just not all consecutive and you know by right in bunches case but I know I am Babe. Ruth's case to well. Yeah that's there were other performance enhancing. I yeah and he didn't have to play against a lot of the world's best players exactly. Yes so what? Trout has done. Obviously yeah I don't think anyone listening to this necessarily needs us to put it into perspective but that is another way to put it into perspective. He's basically just on the best run as the best player in baseball that anyone has ever had already. And there's no end in immediate sight so Dan looked at the long term projections to and he kind of like projected the projections so tried to figure out who would be the most likely were get her going into twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three and many years after that and for the next three years Mike Trout projects to be the best player going into each of those seasons and then for the next couple of years after that he's like behind only a a couple of guys I think glendower and a Kunia and then he falls down off the list. At that point he'd be in his mid thirties already. So it's A good article in a good look at great. He's been how great he'll continue to be and we will link to it and everyone should go check it out. Not Then we want to contemplate Mike Trout's inevitable decline but maybe it is better to contemplate it now so that when it does happen we have emotionally prepared ourselves for it and also appreciated the great unparalleled run that he will have already had by that point. Yeah Yeah is it better to contemplate it now or is it better not to? I don't know I can't help contemplating where we've talked about this on the podcast before right. Didn't we guest and we do this one. Yeah guest which year he would not be. He'd no longer be the best player in baseball. According to the consensus or something. I don't actually remember which year we said. But we've yeah we we definitely did. We have talked about his decline in various forms We've when he was quite young. We talked about how someday he wouldn't. I remember saying at some point. Long ago maybe five years ago how bleak it was to think that we were. I think I said something like we're only six or seven years from being painful to watch Mike Trout run or maybe I said like nine or ten years or something like that so that has been there. I think we're we're we were aware of it. But it was different when he was twenty three and it was like. Can you believe that in nine years? Might Trout's going to get worse. Now He's twenty eight and it could happen this year like it could start. We don't know that we no longer know that we're not at the top of the Parabola and this is probably is probably the first year that you might start thinking that it's more likely that he'll be worse over the next three years than he was the previous three years or something like this is when you would start thinking it is that it is more likely than his best season. Maybe a better way of putting it is. It's more likely. His best season is behind him than ahead of him. And this might be the first year that you would say that and so now I don't want to contemplate his decline which we have to be clear not seen a single gram of evidence for. There's no there's nothing like he had his best year just now offensively and before that he had his best year in the season before and before that he had his best year on the season before that unless salute you take his lack of durability as a reflection of age and infirmity 'cause he has not had the the playing time that he earlier in. Some seasons You could you. Could you could find ways to be negative about Mike Drought? WanNa be up but you could also find ways to not be negative about him. You could be living in total blissful ignorance about anything so I'm I have less appetite now to contemplate the future of his decline than I did when it was way off in the distance yeah. Dan Did note in his post that there was one milestone. That has already happened. Which is the best rest of career projections? Trout has been passed in those so for years. Like even just a couple years ago. Trout was already. You know twenty-six or something at that point but he was still projected to be better over the rest of his career than any other player was projected to be over the rest of his career. And now that's no longer true so Dan noted that in the twenty nineteen projections Kunia and Soto past trout for rest of career expectation and now he is sixth behind Kunia Soto Endore bellinger and Gleyber Torres. Actually and then they're a bunch of players just a a few wins behind him. So now there's that anyone who's in the middle of writing us an email right now about what Junior will be worth or how good he'll be expected son. Who is on the way? We have already contemplated that kind of question in. I believe episode nine eighty three when we talked about Clayton. Kershaw newborn son. Charley and his long-term future so probably apply. I think we even did an episode on that in like the three hundred maybe three or four hundred okay I unfortunately switched from one volt page two different vault page and so now. I'm worried I'm out of order. All right we did home runs. Hits wins strikeouts. Team Wins Somehow got. Maybe they've got. I think we're up to all star selections okay all right all star selections so anyway. Mvp I picked by by the way. I picked Byron Buxton and if you look at previous decades as well the again light trout they look they look normal like it was barry bonds in the two thousands and it was barry bonds in the nineties. But I don't think you would have picked Barry Bonds in either one of those cases before the nineties Barry Bonds had never got an MVP vote. He was very good and he was young guests. He was twenty six. I think in nineteen ninety but he had never gotten. Mvp vote and then in two thousand. You wouldn't have probably picked him. He was very old. He was like thirty six years old at that point. You weren't GonNa Pick Barry Bonds and two thousand one was when he had his big crazy. You know why. Resurgence and so there was no way that you would have picked. Barry Bonds for either of those either off by year. He was twenty five in one thousand nine hundred thirty five in two thousand alright all-stars this one. I picked all-stars Trout I did too. I just feel like he will be so revered for the rest of the decade a healthy great probably most of it but then he'll attain. A CAL ripken like status. I think where fans will just vote him in. Because I think at that point everyone will love Mike Trout. I think everyone who knows him already. Loves him but I feel like he is just kind of gaining in admiration and affection. Just because I think at least in my case I've sort of stopped wanting him to be anything other than what he is. It doesn't frustrate Mir disappoint me that he is not the most quotable guy typically actually like a more now for it. That's just that's his character. It's not that he doesn't have a character or personality. It's just that's what he has. He is just the. I don't know the Apple Pie. And Guy that you would want your kids to emulate or whatever he is that guy and he just never does anything to make. Anyone dislike him for any reason really and so I think he will continue to have a very high approval rating perhaps even after. He is no longer a deserving all star. He will continue to make the team. Yeah what would it take to have him? Not Make the next eight all star Games. I mean it would be severe. So yeah that's that one. I was going to get creative on yet. All right so we're up to the two team wants world series titles and team wins all right so these should be the same. Yeah but I'm not mine are not going to be the same in her. The same either yeah so world series titles. I'm going with the dodgers. Okay not because they're do but just because of a they seem to get there every year and they are currently the team with probably the best chance to win the world series certainly in their league. If not all of baseball and really. There's no end in sight for them. Which differentiates them slightly from other teams. That I might have picked here. Which is just that. They have this young core so not only. Are they great right now? But they just brought up a whole bunch of really good young guys and it just sorta seems like they can keep this going and the division that they're in. It's hard to project once you go beyond like three years. It's basically flipping a coin. So I don't know what the rockies will be your or the padres will beer. The diamondbacks will be but with the rockies. It does seem like we have enough of a history to say that it's just hard for the rockies to be good may be harder than other teams and so there's one team that sort of starting with a handicapped. They're in their division. And I think the fact that they're so well run seemingly that they have the budget and the payroll and all that I just. I don't know why I wouldn't pick them and now I'm kind of questioning. Why wouldn't pick them for both of these categories actually? Well I'm picking them for winds okay for. I feel like the flu. Kushner of world series titles is high enough in the fact that everything like you say gets almost unforeseeable in some basic franchise fundamentals after two three four years. Means that you if you're GONNA pick a category randomly or nearly randomly. This is the one and yet. I'm pretty sure that most people are going to pick the dodgers or the Yankees or maybe one or two other teams and those would also be the picks that I would have if I were thinking logically and I just don't WanNa pick the same thing. Everybody else does because again win. You need to have some answers that nobody else has. Few people have so I got. I'm trying to think of the least picked answer that I can comfortably go with and so I think I will go with the. I'm thinking. White Sox Tigers Mago with the white sox nose picking the white sox right probably not so. I'm picking the White Sox. Okay I mean it only takes two it. Most decades only take out too well. This decade took three the previous decade to previous decade the Yankees that was three and then the previous decade was two and then three and then to. So you're looking. You need two or three and I feel I pick at random you might get to so White Sox. Yeah just emerging and getting good now. So you're getting them on the upswing and maybe you could say they're in the division with the Cleveland that just doesn't at least currently seem all that motivated to put the best team together that they can and well you almost did take the Tigers so so the two teams that you almost picked were in the same division so I was picking a central team with the assumption that the central generally has been and probably will continue to be a little less than the other the other divisions now that obviously Lesser Division still have good teams to one hundred one winds last year to win the central Well it didn't but that's how many the winning team did win. And so they're obviously like they're tough divisions and they could be a tough decision but historically it's been easier to win the central than any other division. Yup All right and the last one is team wins and I don't know maybe I should just stick with the dodgers but I think I'm going to take the Yankees here and I will try to justify it. I mean obviously historically speaking they have been the safe pick here but they've also been the safe pick in world series titles but even when they don't win the world series win this category so in this just past decade they had the most wins without winning world series and they did the same thing in eighty s. So the have a track record of that. And the way I'm talking myself into this is that I just think the Yankees are probably the least likely team to be bad at any point like even the dodgers I could imagine the dodgers deciding. Okay we're GONNA take a step back or something like that. It's hard to say. How long even enter Friedman will will be running the dodgers but as long as he is. I could imagine them getting to the point. Let's say in four years or something where they do kind of like a tactical bridge year or whatever and they say oh well we WANNA get under the luxury tax and we want to trade some of our guys and you know. Set Our sights on the future or something. I could imagine them doing that. In kind of a calculated way whereas with the Yankees well they've reset their their tax on all of that too but there just seems like such a resistance to being bad in New York and being bad if you're the Yankees and they have such a long streak of not being bad that they sort of have the most at stake I guess in terms of like keeping that run going like even the dodgers were bad or not good within fairly recent memory whereas with the Yankees are talking about like a quarter century of being good at this point. So it's almost inconceivable that they could not be and so between the payroll and the institutional advantages that they have and just the tradition of you know Steinbrenner's always wanting to put a winner on the field. I can't imagine them ever bottoming out or even really having a valley that I could conceive of the dodgers having the other nice thing about either of those picks is that because there's just so dominant in such formidable teams at the top of the division they force other teams to state to take steps back. So they're just constantly in divisions with two teams. That are GONNA lose. You know a lot of games just because you don't eat like I think there's a tendency for a lot of teams to go. Well no point trying to get the eighty six in this division in so it probably over the course of a decade. They probably get a few extra tankers on their schedule than a team in the central or team in the Al Western the NFL East. Might Yup all right all right. We don't take any of our pics to the bank but Take them to the vault. I guess if you feel like it like don't take my picks of eight from the crowd. Yes okay well. I'm sure Johnson your our official stat keeper will add our picks record them for posterity on the spreadsheet where we track overdrafts and competitions. And hopefully we will be able to check back in ten years to see how we did shape by the way Shane. Bieber's younger than Walker. Bueller an yeah projects basically just as good this year in in yet. I didn't I didn't even really consider. I mean he he met. He met the criteria that I went through for the last decade or for for Bueller. Why didn't I consider him instead? I mean yeah. You're a lot more likely to win if you pick Shane Bieber for all of these and he ends up winning than if you pick Walker Bueller for all. These knee ends up winning. I'm switching BIEBER. There's a anti stuff bias with bieber which other probably unfair but the fact that he throws like ninety three or whatever right now when he's young makes you question what he will throw in seven years. It does seem like this has not way he can be leading the decade strikeouts right. I mean I know he had his he had more strikeouts than Bueller last year. I will be but yeah I'm not picking I'm picking Bieber. I'm your limit. I'm filling out right now for everything. All the pitcher categories all the religious county right. Well Okay Pretty happy with my Walker Bieler. Pick at least for for wins. I think I'm GONNA take wins over over Bieber but all right. I appreciate by the way that this is just old. School categories Yep. I'm glad they did that like you. You can't you can't do that now. You know what were will be hit or one year for that matter and Yeah I mean that's the thing like you can't really pick any advance stat because it could be changed or surpassed by something else a ten years from now. Also you have to go with wins. Even though WHO's going to be talking about wins and two thousand twenty nine. No-one we're talking about winds now. But it's kind of the standby should done outfield. Rbi's okay well to bring this episode Full Circle Back Old Padres outfielder which I was not expecting to think about today says Smith Whom Sam mentioned because he had a great year in that twenty fourteen season. He's might go to example of someone who may be better because of surgery he had Lisek in late. Two thousand thirteen. I think and if you the day that he came back from that and then look at the rest of his career. He was significantly better after that he had been earlier in his career even though he was younger even though he was more in his prime age he was much better post-olympic so when people ask what actually make players better and I know there have been a few studies about and I say says Smith he got better except even that one doesn't work so well because I think he had his first lasik surgery in two thousand six. So I don't know maybe the second one just worked better or maybe he made some other changes who knows and speaking of Padres outfielder with surprisingly low totals many of you probably saw the fact that was tweeted last month by Adam drowsy. Who wrote just noticed? That last season will Myers played in one hundred fifty five games with four hundred ninety plate appearances. Nobody in history has played in more games with FEWER PLATE APPEARANCES. That is pretty impressive. Or unimpressive. That have four hundred ninety plate appearances in almost every game played but of course he did not start a lot of those games because he was benched and he pinch hit a lot. And that's how you do that. Just goes to show what a role he has had with the padres and how he is not really fit in that outfield. So there you go. Hope that was enough. Padres outfield content for you today. You can support effectively wild on Patriot by going to patriots dot com slash effectively wild. And Hey if you enter the vault competition because you heard about it on this podcast. End Up winning a million dollars. Maybe kick cut back to us. I don't know if you're feeling generous. But in the meantime go to Patriot dot com slash effectively wild as have the following five listeners who've signed up pledge some some of the amount and help keep the podcast going and get themselves access to some perks. Parashar say Ryan Dorsey set Alexandra. Braun Chad John and David Lizard Brown. Thanks to all of you you can also join our facebook group at facebook dot com slash group session. Wild you can rate review and subscribe to effectively wild on itunes and other podcasts platforms. Thanks Higgins for his editing assistance. You can contact me and Sam and meg via email at podcast dot com or investing system. If you are a supporter and we will be back with another episode a little later this week hockey then win what era.

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Episode 389: The Getaway (1972)

The Projection Booth Podcast

1:31:24 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 389: The Getaway (1972)

"The modern daily Jesse Tyler Ferguson was this amazing six-year-old piano player. That's amazing. I was eating pennies at that aid to the priante NBC, four months of anticipation, and it all comes down to today. Stay with news four and NBC news for breaking updates and expert analysis as the election results, come in it what it all means for your family working for you during the season twenty eighteen. Christopher media. Let's make some noise McCoy on a ten year sentence on robbery defense in the state of Texas. Wanted by the state of Ohio all with the dead weapon in armed robbery. Thank you lightly. Petty. At least I got him. When I hurry banyan, you still don't get the picture. I've always heard what a smart ass operator. You was that's a walk in bang. Piece of cake. You don't have to be diligent. In that game. It's all a game. Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike white. Joining me once again is MS Maitland. Mcdonagh it is always a pleasure for me to be here. Also with us this week as Mr. Iran Carruthers, it's even fewer in sporting it and churlish this week. We are discussing the nineteen seventy two film from director Sam Peckinpah the getaway based on the novel by Jim Thompson and adapted by Walter hill. The film star Steve McQueen as doc McCoy and Allan McGraw as his wife. Carol two young lovers with nothing better to do than rob a Bank with the -plicitly Rudy Butler and the barely a character. Jack Dodson, let's just say that things don't go as well as they should now we're going to be getting into spoilers galore about this movie, and the nineteen Ninety-four remake and the Jim Thompson book along the way. So please be warned now Maitland. When was the first time you saw Pekka pas the getaway. And what did you think? I'm pretty sure. I saw the getaway in the eighties. I did not see it when it with a rigidly released at a little bit early for me. But I thought I believe at film school showing at Columbia University. Though, I was not yet at Columbia. I had friends who are older who were there and it was projected under not ideal conditions, but certainly better than any other that were available to me at that time. And it was a film that I found pretty breast taking in its cynicism. And yet, it unpacking PA likeness in many ways. I mean, I already my idea Peckinpah was the guy who did those incredible blood that and the getaway really is not a bloodbath. Literally, although it is certainly an emotional bloodbath on every level. So it was a little bit of a surprise to me. How about you Aaron I saw it and in five when they release the. DVD verson. Actively young and I was just going to part time because in a Basset t. Spree through Peyton Pau straw dogs. You name it an NSO. There's the air. We always love Steve McQueen because Britain bullish for the great escape every Christmas time, so when you McQueen onion from billets popular. And so the fall of Peckinpah and couldn't give our was like. It's always amazing. I actually saw this movie for this podcast. I heard about it for longtime for whatever reason, I guess it was because my family were big fans of all in the family and watch the originals when those were on the reruns for all those years after and my mom would always tell me about young Sally Struthers being in this movie. And just how different she was than Gloria stiff it's in all in the family, just what a a sex bomb. She was in this movie. And so I always say that tucked away in the back of my head. If like, oh, I should check that movie out some time. I can't say that I'm a huge Steve McQueen fan. Like I've seen bullet that I've seen the greatest scape. But it's like I haven't gone out of my way to see other movies that he's been in. So let's talk about him as a star. Because at this point when he was in this movie, he was. Was a huge star. And I imagine people know that SIV McQueen was a star. And what a big star. He was. But just maybe not the magnitude of what a powerhouse. He was at this time. But yeah, this was a first time viewing for me. I was somewhat familiar with the ninety four film, though, that was also first time view for me. And I kind of came into this one through really wanting to reacquaint myself or acquaint myself with the books of Jim Thompson and saying, hey, here's this movie that was made out of this. Jim Thompson book. Now, I have an excuse. Let's read the Jim Thompson and move into the movie that way, okay mic. I'm appropriate is still reeling. From the fact that you're discovered the getaway valley Struthers, that's pretty bad. Well, you have to admit she is pretty spectacular in this movie. She's. I was so happy to see Allah Terry in this movie as well as as Rudy because I had only really known him as being so the Turk in the godfather. And when he showed up on screen. I didn't know who this guy was at first I thought he was Topol. He has this totally different look with the big mustache and the hair sticking out. Like he looked like Dr Hans our call for something. I was just like who is this guy. Then when he starts talk. Okay. It's not Topol who is this. And then I had to look up, and I was like really that's the Turk. He looks so different in the godfather, which was the same year that this came out was when the godfather came out that's pretty remarkable as pay could run foams and did he know right after this hill felon Belen bitch unburden. He did. Yeah. And I didn't know that. He was also a screenwriter says the Queen Vic the Osgood's by Marshall tattle the he was I am. I became an actor before and go far on together. We and you'd items Haiti drink from I'm reading this government by hidden. And yet he just seems like an and cater and they hit willing to we just something you'd never get. We with these days comes to foams. He is one of the more interesting aspects of the film and the more. I watched the getaway the more. I appreciate kind of the parallel stories that are happening between Rudy and the Sally Struthers character. Fran and then doc, and Carol, but we definitely get into that. Let's set it up a little bit. As far as how we're introduced to the story. And a lot of the beginning of this movie takes place in a prison, and this has to be one of the most oppressive prison sequences that I've seen in a long time, and we've all seen our fair share prison movies. But the way that they present this kind of regimented life and the use of the audio that machine sound that runs through so much of this opening it just it kind of drove me nuts. I couldn't believe just that noise. Just droning droning felt like I don't think this sequence goes on for too long. But it felt like the sequel. Goes on forever. Just because of that oppressive nature found myself thinking of metropolis looking at the prison sequences because it's the same kind of mechanization of human beings, those prisoners, of course, all dressed alike, which is a factor being in prison. But they're also moving in these incredibly regimented groups to the sound of that machine something in clanging in the background it the dehumanisation of that prison. And yet the way that doc is rebelling against it, and you don't tiny way sitting in his room building that incredibly intricate model bridge think is a really extraordinarily good any way of introducing that character both where he's been and why he is not the sum. Total of what's been done to him in prison. Nicky stays the same. Find the parts find somebody can study non digest inviting Satan's, it was very oppressive and the way that was to even insured. It's like a show of deer, and that was actually based on this president's Huntsville film to while running cre- the while these men were aids like savages, and this time in basically into the key mon-, he's where they're cutting wood with being told what to do and. You could see couldn't say this to you have been Johnson. They are bit proceedings. He's looking over towards the Kwaidan, and it's Fadi skated. I also wonder if that bridge that McQueen is making out of what toothpicks match six or something that is some sort of a reference to the wild bunch with the destruction of the bridge in that. But I could be reading way too much into that could still injure I would say possibly, but also I think you could read it metaphorically as the idea that he though he is imprisoned though, he's being forced into a kind of conformity with all of these other guys in he's still looking forward to something outside to the idea that there is a way out for him. And I think that bridge could be red to symbolize that because duck no matter how much he's forced into other people's rhythms. Other people's way of the 'having is still doc McCoy. And has this deeply rooted sense of cell and also this belief that he's not there forever that there's a way out for him away out that he's engineered. And that way that he finally ends up being sprung is through Carol his wife, and even though he puts this plan into place, if feels like he's N denial like he says, okay, I need you to talk to banyan this character that is played by Ben Johnson. Who is there kind of looming over things part of the proceedings for parole. All this kind of stuff and says, okay, I need you to talk to this guy by talk to. I think he knows that he needs Carol to use her feminine wiles on the Bandon character, though, he doesn't seem to want to admit it in that becomes the crux of this movie is this idea of what Carol head to do to get doc out of prison. And that is even more of a. A looming thing than the robbery that takes place after this the titular get away from the robbery because that taints everything that whole idea of can't he trust this woman or can't he he put her into this horrible situation that becomes the real meat of the story played against this robbery and getaway afterwards. And I think that's a really interesting thing because that plays. I mean, just as you were saying Maitland as far as this isn't a typical blooding guts, western that we've seen from Peckinpah that the idea of faithfulness and just the way that people don't trust one another the man woman relationships thing that is at the core of so many of these movies, we taught in the past about things like bring me the head of Fredo Garcia, the rape that happens in that the distrust all those things that happened in that movie. That's. Pure Peckinpah even more than the slow motion gun battles. And we get some of those in here, we get a lot of of gun battles happening. But that idea of the man who pushes the woman into this horrible situation. And then his response to it is really that's one hundred percent Peckinpah there. He does play with these female a time. I'm sure he had the also in a store talks as well. He was twenty hire the after the women's been violated, and yet not sends wholesomeness become a Mon and clean to do. His thing comes to women because he's been tainted. Although this tension between doc and Carol because duck knows she had to sleep with engine. She knows that he knows that she had to sleep with engine. And yet neither of them is talking about it is in fact for more prevalent in the novel in the novel. They start talking about that really early on. And they are still talking about it as they approach the end of their. Ernie one of the things that I really like about that novel is that it is so forthright about the issue of loyalty would dock clearly wants from Carol and the loyalty that she gives him which includes the fact that she willing to sleep with another man in order to get him out of jail and the tension between the fact that she feels that he's been betrayed even though she did what he asked her to even if he didn't literally say, and by the way, you're going to have sleep venue to get me out and the betrayal that she feels because she didn't want to sleep with him. She slept with him in order to get out of prison. And so the fundamental tension. I think in the novel really is that both know what she did both of them know that she did it because he wanted it. And yet they can't reconcile that because he is still angry. At her. He's still seems to feel that it must have been some other ways. She could do it done it even though that's what he asked her to do. And he in turn resent him for the fact that she did exactly what he asked her to do. And now he seems to be mad at her for it. What is going on after he gets sprung is. Okay. Doc, I know you are a consummate criminal Bank robber. I need you now to rob this Bank for me. And we're going to set this whole score up. And it's kind of and I'm trying to remember if they do this in the movie, but it's kind of a cover up because this Bank has already been robbed up some money. And then they're using the robbery that doc sets up to cover that up like they get away with five hundred thousand dollars or four hundred thousand dollars, but they were port that seven hundred fifty thousand dollars has been stolen from this Bank. So what happened to that extra money been had it and took it out? But now the using this robbery as a cover up. So it's it's a little almost like a. Charlie Verret, kind of thing as far as what where was that money? How did that extra money get out it's cetera? And kind of reminded me of Charlie Eric as well in so far as banyan he his criminal crew are all of these guys in suits in the way that they are this organization, and this character that he's credited in in the credits as the accountant, and I think he's actually supposed to be Binion's brother, and he's played by the sky John Bryson who in real life was more photographer than he wasn't actor. And my God this guy he he just has such a great look tool like at first I thought he was slim pickings all like made up or something. But it's not it's this guy John Bryson. And he has like these big teeth these thick glasses the just everything about him. Just looks so funny, but he plays it one hundred. Percents serious any becomes the force of evil. Like once Bannon is taken out, and we'll get there once Banias taken out this guy ends up becoming the head of all this stuff. And he has no compassion when banyan is discovered dead. There's like, okay. Yeah. Thrown down a dry. Well. And then when I hear that this guy supposed to be Banias, brother. It's like really he had no compassion for his brother. There was nothing there. And the thing is seeing where if our C up gentlemen, ever been Johnson on the Queen. Did you ever know under the boats spot? A restaurant table that henchmen behind him pod. And along we cannot tell you thing is it was strange, but I just I was gonna pay pocket. I think because he does things we style and stuff. Actually, I made the dog thought bindings rubber and we kind of funding. The couldn't kinda weird going to like you say, I take Israel kind of remind me of the bad guys from bring me the head of Elfriede oh Garcia where just like kind of comical, but not at the same time. Like, you don't wanna mess with these guys. That of motion the characters in in the getaway, you know, a lot of them arms kind of funny and quirky, and you could imagine entirely different kind of director making this into a kind of mad cat caper where everybody's eccentric. And everybody's got some quirky little thing that they want out of this and all of their Corky. Little things are at odds with other people's quirky little things, and it could be a light funny kind of film. And yet it is the farthest thing from it. Although I have to say it is not as far from it as Thompsons novelist in concert novel is it's a smash your head against the pavement if you times, and then pour alcohol on it. Because that's how bad it is the right term was meant to be PF. Mcdonagh fish would he had the quirk that can about. I'd quirks to kites are just trying to think I heating how he would Matiu. And we have no idea the mentioned not appear, but Ghana that we ve interesting I measure, what ended up a little bit more like what's up, doc? But originally it was to be he was going to shit. What's up, doc? They in leave it, and then go and make the away and come back, and edit what's up, doc a name it the guy we but in. One brothers says no one have not. So that was changed and all the for pain. And I think we can thank God for that. Because much Meyer, Peter Bogdanovich, he has made many movies like the getaway not a movie that I can see Peter bugged on of doing anything interesting with I think that the core of that movie is so white hot and bitterly cold at the same time. But I I can't imagine him really making a movie from this material that would have in any way been true to the material wants McQueen got onto this. He was calling the shots. Again, was this powerful figure at the time. And correct me if I'm wrong here. But I think that he was the one who said, no, let's get Peckinpah on this because they just done junior Bonner together. The thing was up was a fluke Conde, and the thing wasn't a clean ups and has pop and so that they taken so these guys for hit. And the gammy was picking pas mega hit in terms of money for him on box office. And also Allie McGraw was coming off of love story right around this time. And that was I just watched the kid stays in the picture and just hearing about what a savior love story was for paramount. And it was again like these two white hot stars McGraw and McQueen being put into this one film was oh my God look out for this. And that that's true. I mean that was a powerhouse combination at the time that this movie was made. And yet one of the things that surprised me when I realized it yesterday, and then I watched most of it again this morning was that I was surprised by how soft it was for peck and pasta, given how unbelievably harsh the source material is, and I'm sure we're gonna talk about this more later, but the the cat away is an even rougher more pitiless. More unromantic story in the Jim Thompson version than it is in the pecking five version and nobody ever thinks tech and five and old softy? But he absolutely softened up this story in a really serious way. And one of the first ways that you see it is that in the novel, the betray betrayal. Not even being the appropriate word. Carol sleeping banyan is something. They talk about for the entire book. They talk the minute. The two of them get together until the whole thing comes to a close. And it's a bitter bitter thing between the in the book, it's not something that either of them can ignore an in particular. It's not something that doc can like go off the book sets up this stuff a lot differently because we're not we're not going to do flashbacks within the first few minutes of of a typical movie we're going to set this up, very linearity. And that's what they end up doing though Peckinpah to some. Interesting stuff. There's that sequence of doc and Carol swimming together, which seems to be a fantasy sequence. And then there are those cuts to his memories of Carol when he's imprison so it's almost like flashbacks inside of the prison seen, but not the same way that Thompson would would lay out his story. And do the way that he opens up the film. I are his book. I love the way that he opens up with doc already in that hotel and just being this real magnanimous forced to all of the people that work there real kind of salt of the earth person. And you get that a few times in the Thompson book as far as him coming from rougher stock in the way that he can relate to the everyday person, you know, one point doc and Carol hide out with this family of what seems to be almost like Oki's these migrant workers. Who are going up and down the California coast, and the way that Thomson describes dock being able to communicate with the the patriarch of this migrant family worker, but almost not communicating the way that the silences were as important as their conversation was really nice, and I really liked what Thomson did with the book. We'll definitely talk about the last third of the book, which has never been filmed. But also I wanted to talk about Rudy real quick as far as Rudy in this in in the the remake those this whole thing about bulletproof vests, and that, you know, are you gonna use this bulletproof vest on this job. I would never touch yada yada, yada. And then he ends up wearing a bulletproof vest. And that's how when Rudy tries to double cross on dock after this initial Bank job that he is wearing a bulletproof vest. And so in doc shoots him. No. He's actually. Okay. But in the book, it's great because Rudy has lived such a hard and horrible life that he had had almost every bone body broken. Have. He was so twisted up and knotted up inside that when DACA shoots him without a vest on when duck shoots him that the way that his bones were formed, basically protected him because he had that horrible horrible life. And it was a really nice touch. You can't do that in the movies because then you would have to tell the entire Rudy Butler story. It's it's it's a lot quicker to just say, I'm not gonna wearable the proof vest. But surprise I was but yeah, he is he's such an animalistic character. And we get that sometimes through Alydar his portrayal. But I mean to the point where he's going to vet to get fixed up. He such an animal, but in this, you know, I it it doesn't capture just how vicious. Was in the book and also among the things that don't exist in the film is Thompson's description of of what Rudy looks like because she was a full birth at a time when his mother clearly gave birth at home, and the doctor probably wasn't the best doctor in the world. And when he realized that he had to use force it to get the stadium out of her else. They were both going to die. He wound up deforming the child's head so badly that Rudy's nickname. Hi face with the bottom half of the pie being the bottom half of his face. I mean, that's a grotesque image. And I can absolutely see why neither Donaldson or Peckinpah thought that it was productive to make that character. Look the way he looks in the novel because it would have been the only thing you looked at whenever he was on screen. But in the book, it goes, a long way, I think to telling you why Rudy is so profound. Soundly violent and angry at the whole world. He's he's got a lot of reasons to be mad at the world, including the fact that he's hideous to look at. I mean, nobody is ever going to look at him with any kindness. As far as he's concerned, and as far as most of his life is shown him. He he is quite literally a monster in human form. He's more on more than starting psychologically, especially if what he does to the dam to the Kolding and the domination over the tooth and five sequences and then the innovation and then in the hotel. Let's fadi. All right. So. Doc, creepy Israel, find out really creepy. Did stick as well. But in the book, he literally looks like the monster. He is in both versions of the film. You see his mom specity through his actions. But you know, he's not like, the poor Frankenstein monster who actually isn't a cruel soul, but who has the phasing monster so everybody treats in like one, and it's just that, you know, maybe Rudy didn't has to be the person he became. But that he was cursed from the moment he came out of the womb looking like, nothing, humid. Yeah. I kept trying to find images of forceps births. And because it kept calling him pie head or face. And I was just like that's the head to have been a thing. So I was looking for that. But pie face definitely gives you a whole different image search on Google these days than what it will probably wasn't the nineteen forties and fifties and we thank God for that Google nineteen. Fifties was a whole different thing. I have to tell you. We're dancing around the scene of doc and Carol coming to banyan after the robbery doc has been betrayed by Rudy. He shoots Rudy Rudy was gonna shoot him. He thinks Rudy is dead. But Rudy comes back from the dead. There's a lot of resurrection theme in this film. He comes back from the and there's actually more of it in the novel comes back from the dead. And he is out there. Unbeknownst doc, doc, and Carol Goto banyans place, and he leaves Carol in the car goes into banyan and Carol comes in kind of sneaks in. And it becomes this whole thing of is Carole, go shoot, doc, or as Carol gonna shoot banyan, and she's really supposed to shoot, doc. The idea was that banyan has been sleeping with Carol. And agreed like when this happens you're going to murder, your husband, basically and will live happily ever after. So the way. Mcqueen even reacts when Carol ends up shooting. Banyan is interesting because it's like he expected that he was going to get shot. I don't necessarily pick that up in the second movie. But we'll talk about that a little bit more. It's this nice moment of tension. What's going to happen in here? Then they're off to the races. And then we really for so much of this movie. We cross cut between the three groups three groups being Rudy. And he ends up picking up this woman friend and her husband. We have doc, and Carol, and then we have the bad guys, which is the accountant and his boys and then a little bit. We'll get police and some of this other stuff, but it's interesting because there are scenes with the police in this movie, but the police aren't the threat there this looming threat, that's in the background. But they're the least of all of the threats to doc, and Carol really it's Rudy. And it's banyans guys that are the bigger threat and. And I always found that to be very interesting that, you know, most movies cops robbers in this movie. The cops are almost non-existent yet thought about fast, the police, and it seems more also psychological rape that they have to get to make school have to get there. And and tension if don't get. Have them are the good old boys will get them. And and I wanted the ruled us also and an enemy of them as well because they have to get to this plea ace split one of the things that Thompson plays really effectively is the idea that you know, doc is is comfortable in his position as somebody who's living outside the law. He's fine with that he's done that his entire life. And he's done it with fair amount of the nest if you've out how to get around the police because he knows what the police going to do he understands from having had many run ins with them over the course of his life that the police do this thing this thing, and this other thing, and in the mobile, very to that he's more afraid of what the people who aren't the police are going to do because they're the ones who are less governed by set of rules now doc understands them too because as Thompson says explicitly. I came from those times people those kind of people who grew up barely making a living scrabbling and scratching and coin their way as best they could. But duck also notes from growing up among those people that those people are really unpredictable and sometimes they'll protect you because you're closer to being one of them, then you are to being the police, and they all hate the police. They hate us thirty in -absolutely every very action. But ducks still knows you can't entirely trust them. You have to trust them as far as you're comfortable with. And then you have to assume that they'll probably betray you because it might work out better for them. And that's something. I think that you don't see quite as clearly in either version of the film. Although I think the Peckinpah version is like one of the tougher version, and certainly the less aesthetically seductive version think Peckinpah very much wanted this movie to look hot. Hard and harsh the countryside that doctoral are traveling through is not pretty it's not deceptively lush, it's not a kind of a beautiful countryside. It's hard to hard scrabble, and you can see that the people who have to make a living living that lend having a hard time of it, and therefore are hard and practical people who are always weighing up the advantages and disadvantages of who you cast your lot with when it comes to the obstacles that doc has to get around. He ends up dispatching a couple police officers in town within a matter of moments, but the one of the major set pieces of the film is this whole idea of Carol being at this train station and Richard bright doing a switch rue with these keys for locker. And that becomes this fairly significant set piece of doc heaven of go after the Steve taking this. Out on the train. He ends up being idead when the conductors and to these little black kids that are on the train. So that is like it really takes long time for that all to go. I've always been curious if that was a inspiration that particular scene was an inspiration for the film commando because after he karate chops Richard bright the throat and puts his hat down over them and puts his coat over them. I expected them to say to the conductor. But unfortunately, he ends up leading that guy live. And that's the thing too. Is that doc isn't as cold blooded? As maybe he should be because he had a chance to shoot Rudy in the head, but ends up not shooting him in the head. And again later on in the film, he has an opportunity to shoot Rudy and doesn't shoot Rudy. So he's like it's like he's living almost by this like cowboy code, though, it ends up kind of being his undoing sometimes because he should be more vicious than he is in the one person that he's the most vicious to ends up being the person he shouldn't be vicious to which is Carol. Yo he he does more violence against Carol. Even though it's more of an open handed slap. I mean that that slap in this movie. Really does not set a well in twenty eight teen even in nineteen seventy two I wonder how that would've gone over. But yeah, that is it's not pleasant watching those to go at it, though it fits with the. This narrative fits with that that distrust that we've been talking about which was really at the core of this movie fat twist sequence where the guy on the train at feels like McLean may have Sade a can often it down a bit and MCI turn. Because if you remember the love bacon, seeding, McQueen wasn't share and pick up having a fight wherever that Peckinpah won't aid them. Adult adult to fall in the guys woman and have our tweeden said no been in presidents kooks, and so I feel it might have been extolled kites are Bush still have hardness when he had to have the hardness of in the. In the phone again. I think that all of what we've been talking about apropos this scene goes back to again the thing. I can't believe I'm saying, which is how much Peckinpah actually softened the original novel because in the original novel. It is true that duck does love Carol and the Carol truly loved up having. There's is a true love, but Thompson's dog is infinitely more ruthless than pecking from stock and instantly more willing to sack revise anyone and anything who or that gets in his way. He's a fascinating protagonist because absolutely nothing about him. In the null says protagonist he should be the antichrist because he is so incredibly out for himself in every respect. And that aspect of his character. I think is what leads to the conclusion of Thompson's novel, which is not the conclusion of this film, which we're going to talk about a little bit layer. I wanna talk about that parallel between the two couples that we have through so much of this. You know, I talked about how Rudy ends up going to this veterinarian to get patched up after doc shoots him and the veterinarian his character's name is Howard Clinton. He's played by Jack Dodson, not maybe a familiar name to a lot of people. But if you watch a lot of television, you will know him primarily, I believe as Howard from the ended Griffith show this meek, mild, mannered dentist and in this. He's playing this meek mild mannered that Canarian who's married to France, the character played by Sally Struthers who is this kind of like I said, she's like sex bomb who. Hiding out here. And it just it's one of these weird relationships where you're like why is she married to him? And then when Rudy shows up, it's like, you know, the postman owes rings twice kind of thing. It's like, okay, we're going to unlock this seven woman, you know, in in the book, again, we talked a little bit more like Rudy sees her. And just immediately knows what type of woman this is in knows that she probably married Howard are herald for security reasons, or whatever and just he can tell what type of person she is. And he's ready to just unleash her. And so we have this whole relationship that goes on where Rudy is. I mean is right out of something. You're going to scam porn of the husband is tied up and Rudy's having sex with his wife right in front of the guy. And so we've got that going on cuckolding herald who is a doctor. And now I'm going to totally stretch here and say now, we have another relationship with doc who has been cuckolded by this other guy banyan who's not present. As far as physically we never see him doc is not literally tied up even though he wasn't prison. He's not literally tied up and watching banyan having sex with Carol, but it's very figurative. As far as the parallels between these two relationships as far as doc having been cuckolded and having to deal with that. And then seeing herald being cuckolded, and then the way the heat deals with a he deals with it at a very different way. And it's really fascinates me is once herald ends up killing himself, and he kills himself in a little. Bit different way in the book than he does in the the movie, but it's such a nice graphic way. That he does it just to see Jack Dodson hanging in the bathroom in the way that Rudy just doesn't give a shit. But once he's out of the picture. It's like he doesn't care about France at all it now he's like saddled with her and he much preferred just having her as this play thing and more the idea of humiliating. Her husband. I think he had more fun humiliating the husband than he did having sex with her completely right there, and that's very much the Nanak, particularly because getaway the husband is tied to a chair watching them in the remake of the getaway. The husband is locked in the bathroom. So he's not actually there watching his wife having sex with another man with clearly having way better sex than she ever had with him. I think that that particular kind of. Statistic impulse is one that Peckinpah serves much better than Roger Roger Donaldson does and yet in the novel. It's so matter of fact that it's even more horrifying if that's possible. Yeah. The three of them are in the same bed together in herald just kinda rolls over and tries that the pay attention, and do, you know, both in the vegetable then remake stuff the kitten that was unusual and the remake the run that kind of weird things of I two was when they the ridicule are finds that Mon hung on the toll of the dead vote in the cut was in the like, it was the curtains a weird touch. That was a nice nice touch. Yeah. I'm the person who watched these movies thinking, oh, don't hurt the kitten. Don't hurt the kitten. Please don't hurt the kitten. I completely understand. And yeah, it's it's weird. That Rudy is such an animal in the ends up. Not hurting the kitten thinking. Nece the train ends up taking along part of this movie. It ends up being what what tips off the cops. And then sets that stuff into motion one of the things I found interesting about this movie too. Is that I think it's it's partially in the book as well. Is that so much of this movie is like doc fighting against technology technology, seems to be his undoing? I mean, the idea of him not having a working radio in the car him having to stop and get a radio by this radio. And then it's the television flashing his mugshot on TV that seems to really be part of this. And then you could even talk about things like the way that he takes out the elevator later on the way head he hides out in a garbage truck. There's this whole idea of these different mechanical devices in the way that they either hinder or or or help him throughout the rest of this movie. I don't know if that. Was one hundred percent intentional on or not? He doesn't seem to be a man out of time years away for four years. So it's not like one of these movies where the guy's been away for twenty years ten years or more. And then when he comes out he's completely out of touch with the world. It doesn't seem like that necessarily the case. There's there's a line like that in. I think it's the ninety four the script in the ninety four one where where it's like there's a reference to something he doesn't catch the reference, but in this one it doesn't feel like he's he's been out of commission that long part of what you're seeing there is in a very real way. I think Thomson conceived Caroline dog as being a variant on Bonnie and CLYDE. And of course, when you come about Bonnie, and CLYDE you're talking about a couple who were committing depredations before what we think of as modern communication technology really existed. I mean, of course, the beginnings of it existed. But. The fact is that by the time you get to the seventies it existed in a far more real in preventive way, and yet docking. Carol really are still depicted as these kind of thirties outlawed doomed lovers, and that's not untrue Thompson's novel, which was written basically between funding CLYDE, and this incarnation the seventy incarnation, but they are very much out of time. Even in the early seventies. They really are like romantic Badland couple on the run haunted by their deprived background by their their lack of hope that really things will ever be better for them. If they play things by the rules, if they become good members of society, and yet if they do what they're destined to do do nipping at their heels, and eventually those dogs will catch up to them and full them down. So there. Kind of a missile poetic thing there. And that's very very Peckinpah. I mean, people always talk about Peckinpah, that's being brutally realistic director, somebody who depend depicts the violence and the harshness of life with no, romanticized ideas. But the close the more closely look at his phone, the less that proves to be true. He was very much romantic and one who looked back to an earlier time in which heroes were heroes until they cross some little line. And then they became villains. And we're hunted down. There's much more romantic sensibility to Peckinpah still then I think there is to Thompson's novel, which is brutally anti romantic. I don't think in terms of the book that it's his first time in prison. I think he's been a career criminal are most of his life. You start a young maybe Juvan juvenile president. And. I think it's been fresh you. What do you say? So and a interest defined am in Carl had made. If it would meet nor normal situations or some way of somewhere. Just opposite. They talk about that in the Thompson story in please feel free to chime in here. If memory serves, it was more of a Bonnie, and CLYDE kind of thing where it was oh, you're this person in a living a normal vanilla life. And here's the kind of romantic figure coming in. And you know, kind of takes away from that. I'm seem to remember. There was some tension with her family, those kind of things very much. So I mean, Carol was a librarian who's a young woman who apparently didn't have a lot of profit. And not really sure why. But by the time to stop. Yes, she's the town librarian and is clearly on the fast track being local spinster who's going to be in the bad version of the future, and it's a wonderful life where she never meets anybody to love her. And she wants up lonely, alone and unloved, but the blow them to her life. And absolute changes, everything he's romantic, Hugh loves her. He her and chose her this vision of much more exciting life that she could have the on being the town librarian, and she's quite young. And all I think she's twenty two twenty three and doc is thirty six so she's already at a very young age been condemned to future as a a lonely spinster and duck safes are from that in a spectacular way, not necessarily a way that has a solid future to it. But I think for her that I do solid future is already dismal dream that isn't hers. So he looks like the way out. So you already talked a little bit about the whole idea of the criminal underworld being more important and more volatile than the police in is very important to note that as we move into the climax of the film, we are. Not dealing with the cops coming into this final showdown. Like, I mentioned the the idea of a set piece that happens after they are seen on television. And he goes in buys this shotgun and ends up shot gunning, this police car yada, yada. But that's kind of the last real police influence that we have on this film. Instead it all culminates at this hotel, which ends up being a safe house for criminals, and that's where we get the got the wonderful dub Taylor as the guy who runs the hotel. So we have the meeting of the accountant group the Rudy and Franco coming in. And then doc and Carol coming in and all three groups having it out in this really kind of spectacular. Shootout that ends the film it goes together. Really? Well, it's one of those pieces where he just like, okay? This is this is pure Peckinpah here, you know. The fighting against this group, and we end up going over here and become back to Rudy and Fran. And just all of these things. I even mentioned the the idea before him being unable to finish Rudolph almost in cold blood doesn't until later on when Rudy's up and about again and shooting. It doc the doc by the ends up being able to finish Rudy off. But then we move into the end of the film where we get another one of Sam Peckinpah fantastic group of players, which is slim, Pickens. So now, we have slim Pickens show up and he becomes their savior. And I like that he is a quote unquote criminal. He can relate to doc, and Carol because he got in trouble with the law once for dynamiting some fish, and he wasn't even able to keep the fish. And he was fined one hundred dollars. So he can completely relate to where doc and Carol are coming from and he ends up being their savior down into Mexico. But we get. Some great dialogue in here, and slim Pickens is always fantastic to see. But that's where the movie ends. And there's like a whole other one third. I would say of the story that we don't see which is in the Thompson book, which all Jim towns. Works are always so fascinating to read and to see where he goes to see the way that he plays with the form. Sometimes we did after dark my sweet couple years ago and touched a little bit with Robert Pollino about Thompson's life in about some of the the literary forms that he chooses to do and the last third of the book becomes this. I mean, we eliminate the slim pickings character we pick up at the hotel we escape from the hotel. And then we go into this other safehouse type area where doc and Carol have to end up going on. Under the this lake into these underground caves and hide out in the case for two days. Carol has this freak out because she doesn't take these sleeping pills that she should take. Because it's so scary these caves, she's takes these sleeping pills is asleep for forty eight hours. They pull her and doc out then this criminal family have them. Stay in this hollowed out huge pile of manure where they have to be in there with all the grubs, the flies and all this kind of stuff. And then they take a boat down to South America. I think it is where they stay at the kingdom of this guy named as El Rey. And it's like this whole thing of like coffin to decay to now, you're in the afterworld and L race kingdom. I mean, that's like the last. Couple of chapters of the book. It's just amazing. The all of these descriptions of this place that he has the way that he he rips the riches away from these fugitives that come in and then their fate once they don't have any more money is one of the most grisly things that I have read in a long time to talk about L Ray, right? I mean, this is what this all comes down to and I will give tiny shout out here too. I believe it's dusk 'til dawn. Which at the very end of the escape from the vampire Mexican bar in the middle of nowhere. George Clooney's character does get away and somebody asked him where he's going, and he says she's going to L res L raises hell, and there's ways about it. Elrich? Raise is Jim Thompson's vision of hell honors and scented by juniper bushes, and a sweet sickly, pork, roasting. Snell. And it is it is simply extrordinary. I mean, this is the point at which Jim Thompson stops being a hard boiled crime writer and crosses over into a a really spiritual dimension, I suppose, although it's all still happening on this earth in the flesh. It is absolutely incredible. And it's for me the saying that somebody who introduced a couple of Jim Thompson novel reprints in the nineties, I guess called Jim Thompson's trap door where you get through. This this story, which is a high story or maybe a little bit of a mystery story or a little bit of thriller story, and you've come to the end of that story. And then you fall through Jim Thompson trap door which opens into hell on or. Yes. Just the medicine if they had the then a little taste of the end sends amazing. It sends look him. There's a game in his code sound hell that different endings. And if you pay for the game each time one day endings was you'd be you became stuck and aliens. I'm just imagining the second of Jenn Tokes type end there in L, raise kingdom, doc, and Carol along with all of these other people who have allegedly, you know, scored big and the way that L Ray has this whole thing set up you pay all of these taxes on your wealth. And it's basically this no-win situation of you always and paying L Ray. And then once you're done with your money, you go into other village in Dhaka's wandering around one day. Hindi finds this other village that's away from the kingdom as it were. And he ends up running across the sky. Who he was supposed to give money to the woman that he was staying with that put him in these underground caves, and then this shit pile literally she gives him some money, and he sees the skies ago. Yeah, I'm gonna get this guy money back. This guy's is six foot four former very very heavy large, man. And now he is nothing, but skin and bones because once you're done once Ray has sucked all the money out of you. He throws you in this village. And then basically the people that are there are expected to eat one another. That's where that seek sickly. Sweet pork smell comes from that. You're talking about Maitland is just that whole idea of these people have nothing left. The now ended up feasting on each other. And now doc knows that that is the fate. That is waiting for him. He goes back down into the kingdom and the have this event that occurs once a year. Here where it's this big gala ball or whatever. And he ends up speaking to this doctor, and he's like, hey, doc, you know, one doctor to another I suppose, I want you to set this thing up, basically where he would tell Carol that she's sick and needs to have an operation, and that he will kill her on the operating table, and the doctors like how dare you do this to me, I was actually a friend of Rudy's. So this comes back. There's no way I would ever do it. Plus, I was a friend of Rudy's in. How dare you tell me this? Oh, and by the way, Carol just came to me and asked me to do the exact same thing. And she's right over there hiding out of sight in this room. And so now, the two of them at the end of the book know that they have made this request a have the other one killed, and that's how we end. Our love story is in this horrible place with these two characters that basically wanna kill one another. Talk about. I mean, just breathtaking when you put that book down you feel winded. It has taken on such a ride it somebody kicked you in the gut right before you put that book down on the bed to thing about it. And that's Jim confidence trap door. You know, you're going to this. Well, the conventional oh extremely well executed thriller narrative, and then the floor just drops out from underneath you, and you're in this entirely different kind of narrative, which is you know, missed field, and it is you walk into a circle of Dante's. Hell, it's absolutely extraordinary. And it's something that I don't think that any other novels certainly of Thomson's era, and I can't think of one of of ours. I mean, maybe novel like angel heart. Walks in the same kind of territory, although the movie version of it really doesn't actually the novelist falling angel and angel heart doesn't quite get. I think as grim as the novel does. Although there is that freight elevator to hell in it. That was an incredibly prescient and John boundary breaking vision that Thompson had that took the what was a really good crime novel. Then nevertheless was add hearing to literary conventions of the crime novel and just to get into quite literally another dimension as a connection between from Dustin. Don't and the Gary I mean, the whole stuff of Tarn, Tino and Clinton with a window bake could be really good fell are like the guy. We and then if the farm Pires is a second film, this they could be different ways Bixby where. You on this pace to do this thing wherever it keeping. It should should have been to end into own from dust on. But just had have been a vast of the we end on that ended up have night. It would have been interesting because homes days, they have different endings phones and pretty cuts unfunded had to end in on the film and different fi connection from dusted onto the Gary. And then they ended up Rodriguez TV station ended up being called El Rey. But I never made the connection between those two until I was reading the book. And I was like, oh, yeah. L Ray network. Okay. I get it now. So let's go ahead and take a break and play a few words from our sponsors. We'll be back right after these messages. Just a few things famous people say about the often movie Dino puck cost. Judy. Dusting the submarine. I'm listening to the often, maybe putt cost. Putt cost for the film of us. Pitches to stay on the puck cough for the interviews. I'm Julia when I'm not traveling for peace. I'm as to the often movie cost for the news. Buna toll pin? I'm not undermining Venezuela listening to the often every putt caused for the. I'm. Civil wine kings tubers. I'm listening to the often movie diner puck for the pelvic. She typing photographs of bricks of Nick. Three. Mostly for the case. That's right. The would winning often movie putt cost things to old people fund, some issues, Stitcher talk shoe, put been Facebook, Twitter, and at WWW dot off the movie, Dinah dot com. A yen for yo peons. Oh bones Boone in tune into chronicles from the crypt joined sorted signs. 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I'm Chris cooling from forgotten TV, and you're listening to the projection booth the ultimate movie podcast. To make a living dog. Dentist? I think I'm kind of out of this place. This is kind of the works. Steams Jack banyan face planet. Something very big. Tom say. Just compete a hell out. Binion. I came here to talk about husband. Let's just look at the situation. One the wife is very attractive. She is a stunningly healthy on. On. Trust. To two. To women's husband serving long sentence in Mexican hellhole. Three businessmen. Lots of power and influence, fellas. An easily husband pardon. Why should he? Do the same for me. Wouldn't you? Humiliate yourself for me. All right. We're back, and we're talking about the getaway. So it was interesting. I was reading about the seventy-two version versus the ninety four version that we've talked on this program longtime ago. I mean, we've talked about Walter hill a lot on this show over the years yet we've done that besides on Hickey and Boggs and the warriors and streets of fire. So we've we've talked about him plenty of times. Now, the getaway I'm not sure which came out first Hickey and Boggs or the getaway, but it was right around the same time. And this was the first time, and I don't know if it was the last time, but it was definitely the first time that Walter hill and Sam Peckinpah work together. And I've always I've always contended that Walter hill took a lot of inspiration from Sam Peckinpah. There's a lot wherever for to him as being the poor man Sam Peckinpah, and it's interesting that these two working together here go it was a pretty good match of. Of their talents. I would say as far as this screenplay is pretty solid, and what Peckinpah does with it is fantastic. And now, but then I read like Walter hill wasn't happy with some of the things that happened during the shooting and some things are changing out of Yatta though. I read one of the drafts of the screenplay and felt very very similar. So when ninety four rolled around or even before that I've read versions of the getaway ninety four script dated as early as ninety one August nineteen Ninety-one. So when that came around he was given this new chance to revisit the material. We ended up getting another version that was shot by Roger Donaldson. Now, the thing with the seventy two version that I it to before was that McQueen and McGraw were on this McGraw was going out with producer Robert Evans at the time ended up. She ended up falling in love with McQueen. They had this whole whirlwind. Romance yada, yada. Now, we're cutting to that early nineties when Kim Basinger and Alec Baldwin fall in love on the set of the marrying, man. And then they say, oh, let's be this couple now in the getaway. So it's kind of like poetry rhyming thing of ninety four to seventy two I have to say I actually like Alec Baldwin as an actor more than I like Steve McQueen, and that was one of the things I wanted to to talk to you guys about as far as I always have trouble figuring out what's going on behind. Steve mcqueen's is he always feels very very distant to me. Like, I don't seem to know who this person is the only one with that. Or how do you guys feel about Steve McQueen as an actor as far as being relatable or somebody that you want to see an screen, Aaron I know you've been reading a biography of him. So I wanna ask you first. He's got presence over. Bolt on. I think bulbs. More pairs. Person mclean. If to be a ham starting aid walking and reading to co commented Creedon on his use of prolapse commitment. It will be gun and since idea that wrapped up so no intention to clean up. Always liked them. He's a blonde haired, good Licken, blue eyed, Mon and a. That we can be dangerous came sensitive, and and a lot of things these days, and how post McLean ended up ost had a rough childhood that rough life within the navy or navy awhile, then your career, and a lot of these don't have thought kind of emotional or Mons Mon kinda thing about them, and it left lay by generation like maybe like McLean than the is gonna potrayed about as well. It don't but the bold when I just think he's just not doesn't do shore. I mean, if McLean had went dad different ruled can clear criminal hold, and I think he could have been a career criminal investi felt that MacLean was one of the last of the old school Hollywood actors, despite the fact that as you said he had a real life, and he had a life that wasn't an easy. One one that involved living real life in a harsh way. And yet on screen. I always felt the Steve McQueen had that fundamental impenetrability that all of the classic movie stars had they looked as though they didn't come from anywhere. And that you could projets almost anything you wanted on them. And in the case McQueen what you wanted to project on him was a very clerk line of American masculinity in actors, and he he supported that. When you saw him on screen. You saw a man who could handle his business. A man who knew knew what he was about a man who when confronted with difficulty didn't fold, but who just got his stuff together. And did what needed to be done, and that's a quality that search an extremely well in films, and he wasn't somebody who ever succumbs to the temptation to try and fill his softer side in film. It is I don't think that that was something he was capable of doing. And I think unlike some actors he absolutely knew that that wasn't something he was capable of doing. So he shouldn't do it. And it's what made him perfect for roles like for doc. I could not have been a better duck duck clearly has past you've got a huge past. We know little bit of it in a movie, but we clearly don't know the half of what may duck into the kind of man, he is and McQueen. I was the perfect actor to portray him in. In that version of the film. And then what do you guys think about Alli McGraw because she is somebody that I am not that familiar with. No, I only know from lobster today. Enough story. It was like at still in film school was like it was more interested in riding Kato than I was over her. And she's supposed to the person that feel towards felt more muscle toward Ryan O'Neal than ever. And the cooks kind of a blank faced actress get any that from this to our brand and heart, but what she doesn't Gabby. She's she's okay, she's fighting. But if no buying Blois, though, like you fall in love with harp because Seoul, great LeBron just restore just they are related sensually agree with you. I mean, I'll McGraw obviously was was a model before she was an actress and that very very in her performances and her presence is much visual presence. And it was a pity me of what seventies girls wanted to look like. If you look like Ali McGraw the world was at your feet. You were he was skinny you were incredibly washed looking you had dutiful straight hair? You have had clear is that was very much a look of time. And as an actress the way in which it served her is that you could project almost anything you want it onto her because nothing was going to contradict you ever really wasn't anything there to compete with what you saw she should be. And I think that that works in the getaway. But I think it's also what limited her in his career as an actress because there really wasn't all that much that she could do other than look like Allie McGraw to when it comes to the remake. Now, I'm not the kind of guy that just sits on remakes this shit on a rebate. Sometimes I like the remake better than the original. We talked about the Maltese falcon on this episode of Hugh months ago. And obviously I'd love the. The third remake of that movie more that I like the first two so the getaway the there are a lot of things that are beat for beat exactly the same. Then there are some differences the beginning of the movie is one of those significant differences as far as the robbery has changed from a Bank to a horse track. We have obviously we have different actors in this though, it's interesting, Richard Farnsworth. His character is called slim to be throwback to slim Pickens, and this I didn't necessarily see enough differences to say, oh, yeah. This makes a lot of sense. Why remade it and then it being coming out nine hundred ninety four. I remember when this movie came out, and I was already kind of tired at that point. Well, first off I was getting kind of tired of Alec Baldwin. I was getting tired of Kim Basinger. I was really tired of Michael Madsen at this point Michael Madsen making like six or. Seven movies a year. And I was a little tired of couples on the run movies. I mean this coming out ninety four it was just a year after true romance. And which true man speaks a lot to badlands as we're talking about. But I just if felt like there were a lot of couples on the run movie, and I was just not into the idea of seeing this felt more like like a stunt kind of thing. Like, hey, Baldwin and Basinger together now because the marrying man, so now let's have them star as this couple yo throwing back to this nineteen seventy movie nineteen seventy-two movie. So I I didn't see it until the other night. And when I was watching it I was like. I it just kind of left me cold. I there wasn't anything in heroes. Just like oh my God. That was so much better than what they did. In the original movie. I just didn't see a whole lot of point to it. The thing about two FM. I really good cover by a bond right in the us sudden they went and then the to good like into awful, and it was like, yeah. Like, you say, gee, left meet cooled. Cool too. Because it just didn't they hit a scene going to impact? It was just they're just on us. That's the state and tale of study was just they just thing. Just just this year. I was never a fawn like amend. Togo federal skull Tae, Sean Connery, but some quiet over felon, nor anything I fell to the to the bunion Kaizer at keyed won't tall space list. And to the guy we just could think Kaizer and the on the teams likes teams like no these these. So it's kinda vague as the yeah. Yeah. He's kind of tainted himself. Now say that I was not issued fan of the remaking the getaway. I it's one of those movies that I looked at this is not a terrible movie. And I suppose if you had never seen the original. This is an interesting story, and it certainly well acted and there's nothing inherently wrong with it unless you realize that it has been done better in the past the one thing that I will say for it is that I think that the character played by Sally Struthers in. I. Version is slightly more interesting character in remaking that she seems to have a little bit more agency. And she seems to be a little bit more self directed. She's played by Jennifer Tilly in the in the new version of a movie and character little bit more interesting and a little bit more somebody I wanted to focus on a little bit more of and although I don't know really anything about the writing this rewrite or the making of this particular film beyond what pretty much everybody knows about it. I do think it's interesting that this in this time round, the screenplay was credited, Walter hill and to Amy holding Jones, and I have read that one of the things that interested her was rewriting and beefing up that character, I think that might be something that makes it worth watching. But honestly, if you asked me, well, I know there are these. Versions of the getaway which one I looked when should I watch? I would say that you should watch. Steve McQueen alley McGraw version. No two ways about it. Yeah. There were couple casting decisions that they made in the remake that I enjoyed a lot like Jennifer Tilly that was a good choice for the Frank Karbi role. But I love Burton Gilliam of most people know him from people moon or from blazing saddles where he is just terrific. He's got that great smile and him as golly the guy showing around the hotel, and and being that dub Taylor role. I thought was great. And then I grew up watching the paper chase so seeing James Stevens as the cuckolded veterinarian was really nice to see him show up in something. But it was like, okay. Whatever I I had such a problem with Michael madsen's extensions. It was so tough watching him. And just like now, I know the character supposed to be distasteful, but just he looked like he had escaped from a bed cut. Entry band. You know, and it was just like, oh, just clean yourself up. Dude. Go take a shower. I really however really enjoy seeing James would as banyan. I mean that was kinda great David Morse and his small rule. Greasy a fully tail and he's gonna cheap deco. Save is. Okay. But he's not too. You could see bear stuff. And I was like David Moore says. Is and what was the TV show way to copy? It was called hack, and it's a really good sees because he's still getting in TV, it'd be like TV but stout. Good quality TV. And that's how you do it more like an it's like all this head from the hawk. Movies too the under days foams as his name has come up on this Joe so many times just for a while there. He was the go-to guy to just be a real SOB in so many movies things like the long kiss. Goodnight. But then he would play like the happy dead character in contact or the really creepy guy who's gonna kill the entire world twelve monkeys. And it's like for while he was playing so many bad guys in so many movies that I couldn't even remember when he was sweet Dr Jack Morrison on Saint elsewhere. It's to the point now where I'm like, I need to go back and watch saying elsewhere kind of get this David Morse taste back in my mouth of him. Being a good guy. Just because he has played so many bad guys movies. And yeah, he's terrific as what is characters name like, Jim, dear or something. Jim. Dear Jackson, and he's no the accounting. Int-, but he brings his own spin to that role. And I think he works really well, and that also like the fact that they're not rubbing Bank. They're rubbing a dog track. I mean, how much pack year. Can you be? They're not even robbing a horse race track. It's a dog track. That is so white trash low class. He really couldn't sleazy your than that. So you kinda like that. Or we're going to take another break in play preview for next week show. Murder. Book. I've been in my office that when my out playing hide and seek with busy pleasures down the street. I never got messed up the stolen did necklace. And then a high tech for another right budget traffic. Well, this looks like something rub. Your palm. But my clients love step dogging another. It is she asked she wanted to be kissed by whenever he was willing to love it. I'll just stay away. From forget the whole thing. Founded screw to fine. I always all through on. Pay dividends and the skull. I didn't have to the first thing. I knew up on myself on a bed like a bag of bones ready for the scrapheap through was dry. My hands felt like a bunch of bananas. Couldn't stand on my okay? To myself. You're tough guy. I've see get out of this straitjacket. We'll be back next week with the discussion of murder, my sweet as we kick off a triple dose of Raymond Chandler up with Terry frost and Eric Cohen until then I wanna think this week's co host Maitland and a Ron Maitland. What is the latest with? You the latest with me is that I am still publishing binge. Scape books. I'm preparing book called holiday gay for the holiday season. And it's let's just say it's lots of good Nadi fun. And so we're live about it. What I'm doing wanna talk about Riverdale avenue press everyday living. You press is a an independent company that specializes in a variety of erotic fiction, including and Memphis Shen and to see erotic fiction with eight includes. Rata Radisson with ghosts them Pires will all manner of supernatural creatures, and you can see them online at Riverdale avenue books where a world of exciting erotica weights. And how about yourself air what you've been up to currently and looking far my second start and the production and TV production by most ratings wail attending a convention. A couple of weeks of eighty feet and players not terse people from than an ET Ghostbusters and eighteen or that kind of stuff. Ten thing and interviews from and that I can post online on after maybe danger and Intech invention and the sandbar to do with film TV's. Well, but Christopher Christopher serandon there. Good choices wail. And also in the interview if Mike will be this event because Las interviewed him was horrific some into Sarah, nNcholas cage on T conduct. So that's on is to interview for Michael beedon, still many good stories tale free. Can hey fecund on Osama felon fingers crossed. I guess interviews. She had on line. Well, thank you again guys for being on the show. Thanks, everybody. For listening please had over to the website projection dash dot com and find out more about today's episode also find links over to itunes where he can review the show and patron where can make a donation to the show donors get early access to every episode as long as I'm not running late every donation in every rating, we get helps the projection booth take over the world. Over the. If you enjoy this show in what more people to know about it head on over to I tunes. Leave a comment in rated five stars make sure you like insurance on Facebook. And don't forget to follow us on Twitter. Just search for Christopher media. Thank you had Vance for supporting Chris for media fi clicking on the pay pal. And by clicking through to all the sponsor to support Christopher media dot net. Most importantly, we'd like to take the time to extend an extra special. Thanks to you for media could not exist without your support. Thank you for visiting Christopher media dot net. And thank you for listening. Christopher media. Let's make some noise.

Carol Goto Rudy Rudy Jim Thompson Sam Peckinpah doc McCoy Steve McQueen robbery Sally Struthers Rudy Butler Maitland director Thomson Jack Dodson accountant NBC Mcdonagh Jesse Tyler Ferguson Ben Johnson NBC Mike white
WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Martin: Stellar Dynamite, Raw's redundancy of match-ups, Impact & Slammiversary incl. ratings on AXS

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

2:13:51 hr | 9 months ago

WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Martin: Stellar Dynamite, Raw's redundancy of match-ups, Impact & Slammiversary incl. ratings on AXS

"In Two thousand twelve annex t transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today on the torch VIP podcast annexed eight years back. We'll be taking a weekly. Look at this page in and exceeds early history. Join Kelly Wells and me. Tom, style from ut talks. Every. As we go eight years back to the day to track annex rising talents, and why did or didn't work out exclusively for pw torch, VIP members. Now? PW, torch and spreaker bring you the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking current events in pro wrestling. Todd is emanating as usual this week from the home of the Washington football team because I feel. Oh, dear another. Idea, Dana Snyder, but who cares sports are back. Baseball's back. Basketball's coming hockey's coming. It's it's. It's a fine time in the world. Do you think sports back is going to affect wrestling ratings, but before for worse. Yes, yeah, yes. Yeah I mean. That's GONNA. Be Really interesting. How Low Ron smackdown especially go! Although I next Awa to follow a fallen. But they have fluctuated too so. Yeah, I'm also curious about how they do in the ratings because. It seems like such a wildcard. I could see I could see some of these sports during worse than they were doing before. I could see some of these sports doing about the same I, see some of these sports during a lot better, and if they do a lot better particularly, the NBA I think it will combat the idea that well you can't. You just can't do anything with you. Know without fans. You know sort of an insurmountable challenge so. That's going to be a an interesting little. You know you mean that. Two people saying that about wrestling or you're saying Yeah Yeah Yeah, yeah? I mean obviously there are different things, but if you can alter your approach, I mean you are simulates sports if you alter to your approach to compensate for it. If other sports are going up a lot under the current circumstances than that. I think is a a signal that it's not just you know not just unavoidable. Do you think if one of the sports what what sport is most likely to go to a cinematic pre-tape formula ratings. Scott. It's gotta be the NHL. They were the ones who are going up right. That's true. Yes. I think they should bring the glowing puck back. That technology was before high. DEF Television, and you know the technology's there to make it work better. Off You know what this reminds me of the revival of the xfl. They! Just you know if we just executed better. Yes. I had a friend in college who grew up in Long Island but didn't like the NHL which which was weird because he would have been a kid when islanders winning cups. And and was like what to watch because I never know where the puck is and I told him I said the Puck is where all the players are skating towards. The focus on the usually, the cameras focus in wherever the players are focused like you don't need to see the Puck if you watch hockey to know in general within a couple of feet of where the puck is. Something that said by people that don't watch hockey or only very very rarely watch hockey, because after you've watched about like three or four games. You know like yeah. And I don't even know if it's without long, but like you know like. After you, watch it for a very short period of time, it's very easy to I. Don't know if I were the puck. Is Yeah Yup. Okay let's. Let's let's dive into it. I'll look. Let's be football. The football football that throws me off. Yes Let's start with thoughts on slam versus the night of. It was kind of I kind of a homecoming. Homecoming for? Returned to Tennessee. A. Secret Not really. Yeah I mean I thought I liked the show. You know it's one of their big shows of the year. I thought the wrestling wasn't that good? Although definitely had its highlights because he doesn't have the same roster that a lot of these companies do, but I thought they did a good job of getting attention to their company. When they need all the attention they can get and they reloaded the roster when I think they've been pretty thin recently. I felt like they're able to generate more attention than they've had any pointed in in quite a while and. Watching the television on Tuesday afterwards. I thought it you know. It continued that direction where yes, a lot of the town that they've been. Using did they brought in were framed as as lose. But. They just have a much higher level of talent to work with now and so you. Fused all these different characters into. into the pay per view and into the television I, thought impact felt like a show that had more going on than in a while. So I thought it was an encouraging. I've motion. Do, you want to kind of run down the entire pay per view or just some thoughts and some of the highlights. Yes the opening. The opening match of the show was the motor city machineguns returning as the first price of the night, and they beat the rascals in the opener I was a little surprised by the Finnish given. The rascals have been a featured act an impact but You know they put the titles on the machine guns on Tuesday so clearly they have big plans for them, and so if you're doing that, obviously, you're going to have the The guns beat the the rascals in this much the match that was pretty good. definitely not greater anything I seem to like it less than most people did, but this is pretty good. after that was Moose. And Tommy Dreamer for the TNA title, and it was about what you'd expect not very good, but they didn't overstay their welcome. Moose trying to push Tommy. Dreamers facing thumb tacks was a a scary visual. And? That was the women's Gauntlet match. This was a disappointment to me. Not very good at all I figured they'd have more ideas for the match, but there really weren't any notable spots. You know the only thing that really stood out in terms of them trying to do. Something was Johnny Bravo coming out address just high, of Al Korean and Rosemary and I didn't think those work does comedy, and just was more destructive. Another come out and they sorta do stuff, and then the match would continue. Really. It didn't really build anything or have any highlights. Finish was very beating tie. Acharya, so Kylie's your next title Challenger. And that's direction. After that heath slater came out. He was the second surprise on the show, and he's just heath now. He wanted to be in the main event, but he didn't get to be put in there, and then he was told to leave by Scott d'amore. What a WHAT IMMUNE GUY! That guy is when he was hanging backstage with Ryan. They're doing. He's still he's no threat. Anybody come on You know so. It looks like keep vinyl. He's going to be a team and did a little thing on Tuesday where he snuck in the back door so. I guess are the as he's. Sort of weasling way in incognito to try to get on the show whereas everybody else was was welcome. Those Chris Bain Willie Mack Chris. Bay One to to win the one one, the the extroversion, title and This was good. You know not a not a great match, either but as good wrestling for sure, and if I was in north, and Cam can semi Callahan and the North won to retain the titles, and they're seizing dissension between shamrock and Callahan, but it was hard to figure out exactly what they were going forward, because shamrocks just seemed off, he was moving really slowly. He looked really tired. He tumbled and claps to the floor and this mixed misplanned show. That just looked awful. I mean really it just didn't look like shamrock should've been there at all. He just he. Off and sort of out of sorts, and brought down the match, and the north were talking themselves up after the match, the machine guns came out and they. Announced that they'd be wrestling. North for the titles on Tuesday, so does a little angle, too ought to follow through television show, which at one point was sort of like a silly thing because the television withdraw so many more viewers than the pay per views, but at this point with with impact it. You know maybe a pretty comparable audience How did the? Show to me was deanna process beating join grace to win the women's title. I thought this was an excellent match. I talked last week about how this was framed a big match on television and how I'm sure that they'd be given every chance to come through and I thought they really did I. Mean really good technical match. A of grappling I thought they. They both upgrade, probably definitely one of my favorite US women's matches matches of the year, and I thought it really got off to a good start an impact. She's been coming off well as a personality and she came through in the ring. Here swell so credit to her after what was a unfortunately for a very underwhelming run in? And the other to the main event, which was surprised number three came out on the show, which was rich, Swann returned from injury to join the match, and then spies number four was Eric Young, who came back because he'll also joined the match as a five way, and they did a deal where swan eliminated young, and then young injured Swann afterwards so could. That's a program that's coming up between those two and it came out at the ads as Austin. Austin and at Edwards got the win, and and the title, and then afterwards Mab Fulton one after Eddie Edwards and lead despise them five, which was the good brothers making their live appearance, making the Safe Eddie Edwards, and they shared a beer with Eddie, Edwards, to close the show and they anderson. Gallup's is a big the on the presentation I thought so it felt like they may be more focused on some of these other acts, and that is they're going. Going off the air, we got the final surprise which was three lines down the the the center of the screen, and then they EC three who threw a glass against the wall and the this was the beginning of new character free three, which we saw an impact Tuesday and I was dubious of moving away from the all these three character because I thought he was so good at that character, but and I've seen so many times with Raslan thing. Thing that they'll try to like tinker with the characterization of the something. That just doesn't work very well, but I thought the new character was compelling I mean they showed all these kind of apocalyptic videos and he talks about controlling your narrative. It was it was like this is an interesting direction so we'll see what he can He can do with that, so that was though slam bursary if they never if be never follows up on the. The mysterious character that was spying on people that the timelines SORTA works out that it could see three. There you go! Yeah, certainly this character. Thing to do on impact, all those guys on smackdown vignettes me. One day I'll have. John You? Push Dolf Ziegler who was who are who is being shown on this videos on our. Remember it. It felt like it was a pretty big range. And I didn't feel like it was focused on just one act that was going to be the one he feuded with. I don't have a total recall I. Just know in general. It felt like he was kind of variety. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah I looked I like the Vignette at the beginning I think it was at the beginning of impact this week. the pay per view on the impact running a little bit in terms vignettes, and when but I thought that he came across the somebody with a chip on his shoulder. Also in terms of like how into the character he was, and he's. It looks like he sort of. I mean when when c three. That character is running around chasing the twenty four seven title. I just don't know if there's any coming back from that unless you do a hard shift in how you present yourself. So while these character and impact is really good I i. like to read I'm I'm curious to see where it goes? Yeah I mean there's there's something we for the idea that you know you. It's hard to come back to sort of being arrogant guy that's been handed everything in life and us. You know everything goes perfectly for him when he's been, you know sort of not only just chasing on the twenty four seven title, but like his Gimmick appear to be that he was just defeated by life and it gives. Totally. You know he he. He didn't even care about the twenty four seven title. He was just sort of following because he had nothing else to do. which you know, yeah, the idea that that would sort of. He'd mentally break and turn into something more Going to say like sort of darker and cities, but it wasn't clear given the impact, the attack Moose whether he's going to baby-faced, he'll for something more. More aggressive, nothing else. Yeah, Yep, and then I mean in today's landscape. Eric, young shows up and they last we saw him. He was jogging Yondo to TV and you know really not used. It's an understatement, not used anywhere close to where he had been used prior once he got to the main roster, even even impact, or even compared to. How is Houston exte-? is a wrestling fans, impact fans inasmuch as it counts in the totality of things willing to forgive and and it soon. Okay, this guy was not. Do People think Oh, Vince mandate like if you didn't see anything he underutilized. I'm willing to give Eric younger fresh look and not just be thinking why a job or in impact main events pulling everyone else down. Down in the process like. Do you think the fans in two thousand twenty kind of recalibrate and go? Hey, if this guy's entertaining and good I'm willing to largely discount the idea that I've seen him treated as jobber not that far back on national TV. Then some of it depends on the context and the promotion on the. Impact, why don't think it's as go deal is I don't think anybody really views. Impact is something. Important, you know just sort of like this promotion. That's you know obviously shelves former. South, and if you really like wrestling, they'll give you. Some wrestling does generally pretty good, but I don't think I. Don't think anybody is thinking of impact is sort of the pinnacle of of pro wrestling. You know anybody whereas like if you're a w or new Japan where you're trying to frame for people, the idea that the stakes are high here. This is a a keep. This is a big promotion this. Is An promotion are title means law. This is you know this is something for more than just hardest hardcore wrestling fans. That's what I think. You get into more trouble if you're. US Much to be outcast, because at the point that you try to bring in more fans, the you know, the more casual and you got the more likely they are to say you know like. Why is this guy who? is in very good based on his presentation, being presented to something being something. That's a big deal. That's why I think that's more of a of a concern and the impact, just because of where they stand in the world wrestling in two thousand and twenty eight I don't think that's as much of a concern, some the thing with like the idea of putting the the the world title. Title on Test Blanchard I think if you you know if if if Awa decided to have one of the women wrestler's wrestling for the World Title I. Don't think that'd be very good for the promotion, but with impact. You know at the level that they are. I thought it was an effective way to get the most. You could advertise a Blanchard who is one of their most tau. Characters I thought it was a good idea so I think the context matters a lot. I'm rich band host of the deep dive with Richmond a weekly part of the Torch Daily Castle Book Shirts Search Torch, an apple podcasts or your podcast dances subscribe every Saturday at six PM eastern I dive in with guest for an hour and anything in the world of wrestling or wrestling related want to hear about the influence of historical figures like big kettering. We gotcha want to hear about how the marine movies got. We are on it. No topic is too big or too small, so if you want to dive in with call in live or listen on demand and see the entire POW towards daily schedule at POW towards, daily CAST DOT com. frigging pause and set the table here. This is the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast for Thursday July twenty, third, two thousand and twenty. This is our Thursday flagship petitioned. The other voice. You hear is Todd Martin every week. I record a VIP exclusive show called the fix with Todd Martin where we cover current events run down the latest pro wrestling. TV shows talk. Talk some Emma may also answer mailbag questions and on a regular basis also get. Todd Martens reviews wrestling books books that he reads in fact this week on the fix, he'll be reviewing. The Horn swaddled and Michael being books. Those are separate, although seeing a book written by those two Cobra and book by those two, comparing their lives would be quite interesting. And also every the mailbag, which is just. Fantastic fantastic audio you're missing up. You're not a VIP member. As you will continue to notice as you continue to listen to fly flagship this week. The the way to hear todd every single week. In format like this along with book reviews in the mail bag is to become a VIP. Member and we invite you to do so you can support a small business. During these times. 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We have a tutorial to walk you through our RSS Feeds. You can subscribe to either the entire feed, or break it down by theme and show, so you can customize it on your phone APP. But anyway with all that said. Let's get back to more with todd. Martin got a lot to cover going to talk about the new Japan show coming up this weekend and the latest with evil and also reviews a smackdown and raw. Awa Dynamite which I know. Todd has lots say about. It was one of his favorite episodes of dynamite. Talk about the developments in annex. T and more so all. That's coming up. Let's get back to the conversation now. What we're talking about impact I just had a quick email to my ratings source and asked if he's got any impact numbers because typically. His system where he works doesn't track access, but he actually did pull numbers so I just opened the chart while you're talking I was curious in particular if they got a bump this week. On the chart is ranked. For the thirty weeks of the year so far. In order of most viewers. I'd rather have an order, but I'll take when I get here. Best ranked. Show of the year was February twenty fifth with one hundred eighty six thousand viewers. And then February eleventh, they did one hundred, seventy, four, and then Tuesday this week they did one hundred sixty three, so as a third best viewed show of the year according to Nielsen numbers. I'm looking on the chart for where last week ranked. Other son, fourteen seven four right by each other one, hundred, fifty, six last week, and hundred thirty five the week before. So, yeah, I mean. It got a bump in in viewership, but Oh Weird. Now it isn't in. Order because actually did more than two hundred thousand back on I got asked him to send me a date or the first two weeks a year. They actually the two hundred and two, hundred, seven, thousand, those few of the year. So Anyway Yeah Little Perspective! It would make sense that they would rebound for for this week's show, but that it wouldn't be higher than the preprinted pandemic numbers, because none of the wrestling shows been able to be. Pretty, pandemic numbers. Yeah, that's actually point so compared i. mean when you think about that if if we take the numbers at face value. Just, okay, that's those are probably pretty accurate readings. If they're doing close. Two thousand viewers annexed on USA with all the cross promotion from wwe. Did six hundred fifteen thousand people's last night. So you know it's a little more than tripled viewership, but I don't think that's all that bad. Honestly I I was thinking it might even be lower than that at this point on access. Yeah that's that's higher than I would have. Thought that it would It would be yeah, who? Is Number because they don't doesn't subscribe to them, so they get. Who's getting these numbers? My my sources said I just discovered access now getting measured in my system. And it's a whole chart of all the demographic breakdown. So however I don't know. I'm not sure what system is tracking, but that's I've got. You know demographic. Demographics and Ratings and everything for them. Maybe maybe with the with. What's the impact parent company and the Canadian anthem yeah. With anthem. ANTHEM PURCHASING ACCESS? Maybe they decided in recent months to subscribe the acts the US because I was always mark. Cuban's thing. You know back in the day. It was just didn't think there's value in subscribing to them. Other other channels that were at that level did subscribe to them, so promises just wants Mark Cuban. WISCON- decided to subscribe. Yeah, let me just ask him Trekker I thought. They didn't subscribe. Okay. I'll see if I get any any. Follow up live on the show here. So yeah. That's interesting in perspective. Where they are relative to it obviously next eight, oh. You have the disadvantage of going ahead and each show would do better. Numbers if they weren't going head to head to some degree, we don't know what but you know. I predict within a month it back to be higher than RAW, but impact won't grow. Yeah I mean a lot of these you know a lot of these places are sort of built in the numbers that they had at one point, and they sort of declined from whatever level that was because there's so much product out there that it's very difficult to convince a lot of people to start watching the new show that was really sort of the feather in the cap of Aws in that environment, being able to being able to get the the the traction that they did on because a lot of people tried, and and they were the breakthrough in a way. Not really anybody else was. The two lowest numbers by the way hundred, twenty, two thousand on. March I got a squirrel here. March thirty first. Yeah, and then one hundred thirty, six thousand on June twenty third, so that they go up and down, but almost all the numbers are between one, hundred, fifty, one, hundred eighty. I mean with rare exception, so yeah like you say had kind of built in audience there with them, and as part of the routine, but yeah getting viewers. That's what I was thinking is the buds this week? How much does Internet Buzz? Lead to people going to seek out. Now that. E C three in Edison and Gals, whatever following the showed a path and cure accuracy where he's later. There's I mean. As much there's so many different options. For you know, let's say you're you're a wrestling fan? The likes wrestling than you don't watch Ron smackdown. Even if you're in that category, you know you've got aws. Show Awa Dark WanNa watch that there's impact our way still has their weekly television show. New Japan world is producing new content, so there's a whole bunch of you know pretty easy to get. an xt pretty easy to get options so. You're just what I added up. There I mean that's you know two hours teach goers a w. how long dark an hour and half! Maybe even sure. Yeah, You know you've got A New Japan. Let's say an average I. mean now they've got their their weekly show chill, but let's say you got an average. You know over the course of a month about an hour and a half a week. you know, and then impact has a real. Impact as two hours. Our ROA is an hour. That's you know a good nine hours or so of choices week average of. Arresting not including lawn smack down, so you know that's that's a lot for Ara. Finally went to consider Yeah Yep. He's later any upside on him. We talked about air, young being reframed, but he was headliner impact wrestling before I think they have a carryover audience from that era, probably still watching them just sort of a loyal loyal base of court viewers is he's slater? Somebody that you can do what you're doing with. C. Three he's. Playing a remarkably different character right now i. don't think he's shown his hand fully where he's going. He's slater Yes, he seems like some. Look what he's been doing. He's someone that very much puts just described where I I, would not bring him in. If I were a w If I were impact, I would I would be interested in how just because I think he's talented. I mean I could have done more, but he somebody. That's very much to find out. I think much more so than EC three because they see three just wasn't on the television that much, whereas he slater, they you know. They made it pretty clear that he was sort of a guy at a certain level so. I think you can in an impact. He brings a familiarity. People know who he is and I think he's you know you can produce entertaining television but I think it's hard to get. People invested in the idea that he's something special. Because of the way he's been used so I think impact is really an ideal spot for. For somebody like that. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk. Join Me Jason Powell host of the free weekly pro wrestling boom podcast each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media, members plus the pro wrestling boom, hot gas features long-form interviews with notable names in the wrestling industry subscribe an it stitcher downcast, and all your favorite secondary APPS, or visit us directly at POW BOOM DOT com once again. That's PW BREWED DOT COM. Anything else from. Impact of paper TV show. Okay, so let's let's talk about what happened with newsman. Nothing happened in Japan, but because I couldn't find anything either I was wondering. Is. Is Send Goku Lord in Nagoya, which is not exactly the strongest new Japan card you're ever going to see thought made event is evil against talk. And of late they've been trying to establish evil as a heel more than trying to have the most entertaining match as possible so I. If they're GonNa do that again this time whether there's going to be a lot of cheating and interference in it's going to be storyline, or they're going to try to have a kick ass match which. Can do if they want to and I hope they do the ladder. Because we've done a number of these batches now it's been more about just to stop snoring. Eagles, jerk and I'd like to see Yvonne. Takahashi have a really exciting match. The second question is how they book rumble. Does he just lose in a way? That builds up evil for future matches with Sinatra and Shingo and Naito or do they tease him winning in a way that makes fans thank I, WanNa see him when the title at some point in the future, and in that way I think there could be some real clues about her. Own was future in the way. This matches laid out. Out whether it's presented in a way. That suggests at some point down the line. They're thinking about who is a guy that can be a single as heavyweight star or whether they're thinking about him. Some of the very popular junior heavyweight that can be used in this you know this situation with a diminished talent roster and a needs to get evil over civilian so very much interested in the layout in that sense also. Also, on the cards Shingo Defense never title against US Bravo I certainly expect shingle to retain. It should be a good match, but you know there's the issue getting a lot of drama in what seems like a foregone conclusion in opponent that isn't really that over and then academies Utera, which is a similar deal I mean Okada will, of course when and I tend to think they're not gonna even try to add that much. Much drama because Okada's. It's such a higher level that I I think. Don't bother with a bunch of like try to do. A bunch of near falls, and do the you know the aws special where you know, it's all about utera and you try to get over how close you zero came the beating Okada I. Think just you know Okada. Run over I think the most likely outcome there and the right thing to do. All Right? Let's jump back to smackdown and I dare say get it out of the way before we run out of steam. Wait I've got I've got for days. Good good I'm like I'm like. I'm like an eighteenth century steam engine. You had a half a power nap before the show to. The third one. Okay, so we had. The what they do at the beginning to? Oh, that's right. They just kind of the montage from the pay per view. That's why I was confused. So then they open the big. Honor! They did a little bit more. They had like the opening where a bunch of people talked about their segments on the shelves. So this was this was a different. Than they usually do and I thought it was a good idea. The fiction montage ECOWAS yet was although I mean the poll fixture montage always was built around a lot of music with you know talking here there. Whereas is more straightforward series of people talking their matches later on the show Again I think it was a good idea to highlight stuff coming up the problem was that they still through in so much of that goofy comedy tone with Ms and Morrison and begin others that to me like the effectiveness of that sort of silent would be to make. Make viewers think there's a bunch of important stuff on the show. I should stay tuned for it, but the tone was so You know so usual database goofiness completely undermined What should have been the whole point of airing in the first? So so what you're saying is. It's a bird. It's a plane. My fist is his lowest lane. Isn't your idea of building up? The match. I'd forgotten that. Yeah, that's Jesus. That's awful. What this remind what this reminded somebody on twitter, which therefore triggered. It definitely reminded me of it. Because I grew them but I didn't think of it at the time. Even more than pulp fiction montage. Saturday's made bets. At the top, they would have the wrestlers. Talking little sound bites. In collection of soundbites leading up to the opening the match, that seemed like a throwback to that. Some more absolutely. Now that music in my head. Obsession that's what is that what the name of the song was! To invent the what of Your mind sessions I don't remember that. Music! FOR WHATEVER REASON THE MUSIC! Mind is a summer slam the. Bomb. Bumper Oh. Yeah, that's right. Yeah? They used to summaries on on prime time wrestling. Some was definitely more powerful Dan. got. All right so they opened versus Zarro. Star win here and he thoughts on that. Stipulation at stake as a reminder. Yeah. I'm not really a fan of any segment that's designed to set up tables patch, which is what the idea was here, but I thought says Ireland's Menachem. They did their best to make. It feel like something that you'd want to see. So says ro in particular does feel motivated right now, and that's part of I. Don't always remember this number of weeks back I. Cut a Promo on on Bailey and Sasha because they thought they really undermine the segment. Where says ro was trying to get that over and I thought that was an early clue. That Zara was feeling very motivated, but it Kinda got You know Kinda got ignored because Bailey and Sasha really really undermined what he was doing, but he's. He's been doing a lot recently to suggest try and. he's trying to do the best. You can and to get noticed He's very talented, so you know it's sort of. It's very frustrating. Career sorrow, because you know you feel like you take that guy in that talent, and you know you booked better i. feel like he could have had a great great career I, don't. I mean I could see him having like a hall of fame level like Real Hall of fame level. And Unfortunately you know. He was. One of the many victims of Of An era of bad very bad booking. Yeah I. Agree I. It was weird I was thinking about that also because I felt he was motivated, and I was just thinking about like the way he portrayed himself at one of the NFC takeover specials when they did an outdoor preshow, and it was just like man, you know he showing aside of himself that that could be a top polythene got and I. Don't know if he just laughed and smiled too much behind the scenes and Goofy, and Vince looked at him and my top guy. Look at him. He's just a goofball. Dump blend the victim. Well I'm not justifying. It was the way it was the way she was dressed, she she she bought it upon herself. The guy that the guy that you know the talented as he was i. just do not accept the idea that like if he just carried himself differently back behind the because it's not even he's not like a guy that has reputation for being a jerk or anything like where he's causing trouble like the idea that like well. He's you know he's adding too much of goofiness to Swiss. Like now I I. I don't WanNa. Even countenance that that's that's. For not recognized talent, and he got over a bunch of different points like you know where people were ready to roll with them. Despite the fact, that wasn't even getting pushed at the time so. You know he's. You know he's. Not on him well now throwing me out of the bus, I just want to make clear I'm not blaming. I'm just saying that might be what Vincent man uses to trigger his decision making. A not in agreement of I, do not blame the victim. I just want to be very clear. Well, you you, you do sometimes like or more accepting of people not getting pushed. Because you know you hear. They're sort of Bad behind the scenes whereas my audis I don't about behind the scenes I just care about who's talented which granted I recognize that there. You know that's in the real world. That can be a limitation because. Human beings are human beings, and if you're if you're working backstage, somebody's just a pain in the ass to deal with all the time. It probably doesn't. Diminish your interest in in in your best. Get them over, but you know I'm. I'm I'm thinking of higher goals. Yes, no, no I! Get that, too. And I think there's an in presenting yourself in a way that doesn't seem to. That shows a side of yourself. That makes it hard for Vince McMahon. Who just on a whim can sort of make a decision to push? Not Push someone based on. Just what he what? He sees off camera that doesn't mean your heart to work with, or you're not really motivated. It just means that's a and Vince. McMahon going all right. That's a side of him. We don't WanNA present a TV, but what we can present on. TV is big time money and sometimes I just think Vince, doesn't he can't get past somebody just not like I think drew McIntyre right now. Is Super Super? Self aware of carrying himself. Like a champion to impress McMahon on and off camera, and I think it would behoove wrestlers who want to impressment man who knows how much longer that will be thing. But to take that into account. Your goal is to make the most money to push the reality is you're dealing with Vincent Man, and his his quirks about how we make decisions, and if you carry yourself professionally, show up a little early. You don't seem like a big mark, but you also look like you take this seriously, and you have a passion for it whatever you know all all the all the weird things that people who are around Vince will tell you to do and not do. It can help your career. It's sad. It shouldn't affect it as much as it does, but I think people who who are take that into account have succeeded more than those who. Of equal talent level I mean. That may be true. Moving. Here. One of the really cool parts of being a VP members getting to relive history through the pages of the pro wrestling torch newsletter back issues. We have progressing wrestling torch newsletter dating back to the late nineteen eighties. We put a new back issue up from twenty years ago that week, and so when you go VIP, you instantly have access to over fifteen hundred back issues. Issues and a new PDF along with an all text version. It's easier for you to read that on your phone goes up every weekend and the latest issues include a cover story from the June tenth. Two thousand issue on Goldberg returned to WCW and whether he's a solution to what was ailing WCW at the time. Also, my call titled Vince Russo is from Outer Space. And Bruce, Mitchell's call him still timely today, unfortunately of racist gimmicks and poverty pimps was the title. That's issue number six. Oh, six the week before that issue number six, zero five from June third features, a cover story talks about how there could be a shakeup in the wrestling industry with WCW for sale and E C W, having an uncertain future and also Bruce Mitchell column spoofing Vince Russo titled How I became World Champion. If. We go back another week to the May twenty seven two thousand issue it had detailed coverage of the Judgment Day two thousand pay per view, including my review and Staff Roundtable, reviews of the rock triple H, sixty minute, iron, man match, and also the final installment of the Lance Storm Torch talk with his thoughts on various EC. W colleagues the week before that the May twentieth two. Thousand Issue Issue Number six. Oh, three features, a cover story on Ric flair collapse in the ring during nitro par three of the storm torch. Talk with this explanation for why he decided to quit CW. Our coverage of W hardcore heaven pay per view and more, and then the week before that the May thirteenth issue features a cover story on the changing landscape and pro wrestling with the off moving from USA TNN and a potential shift of W also covers sidebar story on the death of an EC- W. Fan after a hotel party and WCW Slam Berry Coverage, and the week before that our coverage from the May six issue number six, zero, one of David Arquette, winning the WCW title. My, and notes aditorial examining Vince. Russo's controversial decision and flippant comments about title belts, our coverage of WWe backlash, two thousand and more I could keep going on, but that gives you an idea of what you're missing out on by not being BP member mentioned settling in on the weekend and kicking back and reading wrestling history, not through the lens of Wwe, filtering it to their benefit, not three people looking back on it through today's lands, but what was said at the time the week it happened by some of the voices that you are familiar with. On the way Keller Processing, podcast and Torch daily casts so go back. And relive professional wrestling through the the torch covered it in real time with contemporaneous coverage of progress, biggest events, biggest news stories biggest personalities I think you'll have a blast. It alone is worth the membership price for so many of our members checkout details on everything else that comes with the VIP membership including daily podcast VP exclusive and shows like this with the ads and plugs removed. GO TO POW TORCH DOT COM SLASH KGO VIP for full details. That's P W torch, DOT, com slash go! VIP prices are as low as eight dollars and twenty five cents a month on average. If you subscribe for a year or check us out for a month for nine dollars and ninety nine cents. At the few small things some. Moment of Bliss Alexa Nikki. Then like you're shown on saying moment of bliss. Don't like my what. Town of you sounded. You said moment of like moment of bliss the moment. We had moment of bliss I feel like whenever anyone says. Moment of blessed should be selling on lines of moment. Bless no, really the reason. I sounded excited because in my report here I'm trying to skip past like just quick little backstage, things or announcer segments, and I got a little lost and I was excited when I again. Koch so inconsequential on the show, so to speak I mean it was your typical of you know unless you're very ineffective over the scripted not at all believable way too cute, talking segment and look I mean this. This week's moment of bliss was far from the worst moment of bliss, but moment of bliss are consistently some of the worst segments on the show every week. The best part though is when Sasha was mean to the camera Guy Nikki just said. Don't you talk to him like that? You know the funny thing, too. Is that if you had like the same concept was just Alexa Nikki coming out there sort of an oddball grouping and sort of playing off each other and sort of like a funny way, and you just let them sort of doing an extemporaneous man I think they might be able to to pull it off I'm not sure because it is kind of outside their own of pro wrestling, because they aren't really geared towards building up matches so much, but like both of them are very good at their characters in a way that I think they might be able to do something with it, but you know like the the. The the screen just everything, and it's not just the fact that they're scripted all. It certainly doesn't help, but what they're scripted to do. Which is like? Have this like you know? Tepid Cute Banter that doesn't feel organic in any way doesn't feel like actual people talking and is more more designed to just sort of like highlight, the cuteness and the relevance of our brand of comedy than to accomplish any goal. Yes! Okay So then nicky crossing asking. It's Balian banks any thoughts on the actual match. Tag Match with does the same people wrestling over and over and over again. Though that is factually true. So Ms Morrison have little given Morrison, I guess a bit of a pep talk for his match with Braun. And then and then Bron Morrison go back to the fun house in a minute. Any, thoughts on on this two minute. Just, destruction of Morrison based I think it was last week you talked about. The use of Morrison. Yes, so the the the moment of bliss I was objecting to unlike the abstract because those things like always pretty bad in terms of what they're doing the Bron-. Morrison segment was just a really it was. It was a very bad segment. Relative to most segments that they do like I thought that the lines that they gave Braun were so bad. I thought bronze delivery was Bradford it was almost unintelligible, phony screaming I didn't buy. That guy was worked up in the slightest. I thought he was just awful in his presentation, and I thought Morrison acting so afraid of him just did a hell of a lot more hurt Morrison than to help brought, and I thought this was a segment that everybody in the segment came out of it worse than they wanna on. He speed talked and I I don't know if that was by design talk fast. That'll show that. You're really worked up. But you couldn't even understand what you're saying just like that to me. That's where we stop the taping in go. Let's try that again. Because, yeah, yeah, absolutely one thousand one they should have just I mean granted. They shouldn't have given him that material in the first place, but there's gotta be a way to deliver that material in the way. He did I thought he was just awful. Yeah Yeah. So there was the I guess we're kind of in between the initial Ms Morrison pep talk in match itself. In some of the stuff that Brian, they had the firefly funhouse where it got all the started. In kind of moved to the old, the old original bray, any any thoughts on that video patch. Okay. Glad I circle back to it. You never know Lacey. Lacey. Confirming, she's she'll now any thoughts on that. For some reason you mentioning that like imagine like a cartoon of you and me, we're like we're going through the woods and you're. GonNa lead you present something I imagined this cartoon form. You looking all happy. Clicking restaurant and walking on? Disgusted. Being very sad. Sarah Sarah Cooper's. The. Speaking over. Imitating Donald Trump speaking I don't know how to say. Ventriloquist Ventriloquist VENTRILOQUISTS DONALD TRUMP I don't know. There should be a cartoon version of the facts I just walk. Make my boys just like you described like an animated version and people decide go from super, happy and wide tooth very sad and my shoulders slumping. move onto the next thing. Somebody out there. Somebody other. Yes so. Question for that? Lacey Evans confirming Oh. Yeah I mean I. Did I did think the finish of this was clever. In terms of just being really underhanded way for he'll the pick up a win, so you're turning? If you're turning lacy, he'll again. I thought that was a a good way of of getting across that character switch. then. Jeff Hardy pro talking about this week's Is A smackdown match up your match. I can't confirm that now. You're. Are we sure it wasn't on paper view? I just forgot. All right so yeah. Lacey or wait, what am I talking about here? Jeff Hardy, so any thoughts on on the latest, already pro talking about James. T! I wasn't ready for the next thing I needed at six seconds to figure out what to do next. We'll just jump to the main about the look like anything else happened here. Just my riddle INTERCON Otemachi styles winds in eighteen minutes. And they turn that into a pivoted to a Corbin Riddle feudals like. Oh! This is a very good match. very good, main fat and I'm with you I'm cool with the finish there are people were really upset. That riddle lost on so quick into a smackdown tenure, and certainly as a general rule they beat people way too quickly on the main roster, but I thought the finish was laid out in a way so that you watch that and Aj did earned the win. Got You know he got the win? It wasn't a garbage finish, but you're left. At least I was thinking watching this matching over token definitely. Definitely beat Asia. Aj just barely got by the sky and age as one of their one of their top talents. Now obviously, the follow up is key, and it's you know it's not wise to expect optimal. Follow up from other be but I. Think if you have riddell beat Baron Corbin decisively. Work Way back to Asia. You can sell a pay per view rematch down the line where fans will care about vittal, overcoming Aj and capturing the title, so I thought I thought the finish was laid out in a way. That could very easily be. A ineffective setup for a later title match with. With. RITALIN AJ and. I think if you. I tend to think that if you gave the promotion more credit that you'd be. You'd be more open to that. You're just like with aws shown a better ability to protect stars, and when you know Moxley beat Brian Cage last week. It was pretty early into indicators his tenure but I think people thought okay. You know we say thing Lance Archer when he lost to cody. Okay these people are are looking out for different people. It's OK. They can get over this loss and I thought the same thing about the about the riddle AJ thing I. liked I liked the post-match a lot, too I thought it was very well laid out in. That AJ offers, and I haven't heard a lot of people talking about. Maybe they just sort of missed with the story they were telling. The story is came. Question me where AJ offers handshake and. Offering, handshake is the point when Corbin you know, attacks riddle from behind so the the handshake was effectively setting up for the attack, but Aj's facial expression suggested that he wasn't aware that was going to happen, so it felt like a tease, maybe AJ's turning face, but at the same time it might be deal where it was a ploy, he was acting that way, but in fact he was in on that and setting up riddle and you. Could you know you can tell a story where riddle isn't sure whether he can trust at some point, we're gonNA. Learn whether AJ's in cahoots with Corbin. Aj was not incudes Corbin and he's moving in a in a different direction, and so I thought that I thought that I thought that was interesting. I thought you know thought it protected on anything that you may be more interested in coming for the title again and set up the the immediate feud with riddle, beating, corporate and the so. Again I'm you know I'm reluctant to expect too much? But I thought you know and the abstract what they set up in that final segment I thought it positively belt to a number of different things. Like when a Sami Return Jericho shocked and I think the assumption is he knew and was faking it, but I didn't see a cartoonish reaction from Aj from Jericho where it was like feigning surprise. Yeah, I, mean I voted as AJ. It's it felt like I watched that if I'm trying to read that. Ignoring the fact that pro wrestling tries to swerve you on different things. My reaction is age is being sincere. That was just a coincidence. Hugh might be annoyed at the fact that it happened because he did want to give props after that match, and he felt that what Corbin was doing. What's kind of wrong? Need an extra dose of positivity in your arresting podcasts will come join me out for L. Over in the progress, Paradise Opinion Torch Vip as we BOSC on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches, and chose from around the world be at the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico, there's always a place of residence passed in the Paradise to, and we've done fun. Historical shows such as the we love ligers series, celebrating glorious career of Thunder, like on our I was there. There when shows where guests will join me to talk about a classic bent that they were in attendance for we love variety, and you can expect lots of it at the pro rest paradise detailed. Peter Roof Torch VIP subscription information on a list of all the VIP benefits is available at Piero torture. VIP, Info Dot Com, and yes, all VIP Alcazar compatible with a podcast APPs on iphone and android devices, or you can stream them directly from our AD. FREE VIP mobile site C in the paradise. Okay. So I'll shift to Monday night raw. We opened with seth responding to what happened in the eye for an eye. Match your thoughts on the follow up to that. Before, we get to that broader point here about the show. in ratings have been dreadful. And there are a bunch of reasons for that obviously, but one that I don't hear. A lot of discussion about is the. Counterproductive overall formula this show. People have knocked the booking on some of the matches this week. You know like the champion. The street prophets beating the challenges on Helen Andrade. Kyrgyzstan beating Bailey when Kyrie's leaving. Shortly and it's true you look at those in the finishes. Don't make a lot of sets, but the big overarching problem. I've you in that. Regard is the formula of having an I've looted this on the smackdown part of having all the people involved in feuds on the show. In every match involves people who have present issues with each other and I get why they do that because to them, it's all about the personal issues, and it's not really about competition or working towards titles so it's just about building up these garages, and then having these people who don't like each other over and over and over again, and you're going to be compelled because to have this story that's being told between these two this dramatic story that revolves around them. You know distracting each other and their matches interfering in their matches but when the same people. Wrestling each other every week until the feud is over, and they move onto a new feud, and then have the same matches every week. That's a bunch of different negative consequences number one. It's boring. You know who wants to see the same people wrestling every week for three months. It's monotonous number two. The paper you matches feel important because you've already seen it a million times. So who cares by the point you got like the big climax, because it's just another long longstanding group of matches and number three, and most importantly you necessarily have to just trade winds back and forth until nobody gets over rather than having a bunch of stars winning their matches. You have a show that's full of. Of people going fifty fifty, and if any of them removed, you just put a new person. They go fifty fifty with whoever there and there and so this week it was you know the street profits turn to win, and it was Kyrie's saints, trying to win, even though neither result me that much sense in the big picture, because if you just do the same few matched over and over and over again you have to have both sides taking turns winning and nobody gets over, and that's all this show was so let's go through the match on the show first mattress, allaster, black and seth rollins ouster black has wrestled either seth rollins or Buddy Murphy the last eight matches. He's had on RAW. Time that also black rustled somebody other than Seth rollins or Buddy Murphy on raw, was April twenty seven. It's been four. Months Wade since also black has wrestled in anything other than those same two people, and he's won four of those matches and he's lost four. It's going nowhere. It's the same thing over and over and over again who could care? What? What are the stakes in? This is the same people doing the same stuff over and over and over again you know the the the the next match was folly Cetera Alexander, and Ricochet and Sheldon Benjamin Bobby Lashley in VP Obviously Mustafa scammed to raw cedric Alexander the last six times. Cedric spin on raw. He's wrestled either MVP or somebody that MVP's managing every time except for one week where he wanNA squash he's three and two aside from the squash the last time that Cetera Alexander anybody that was not either MVP or somebody managed by MVP. was. Let's see here. April thirteenth. Ricochet, again. It is delight. twenty-three today. ricochets been on television a little bit more, so he's Russell, a little bit more, but same Sandia last eight matches that that ricochets had on raw reader against envy, P or somebody that's managed by MVP apart from the same tag team squash was said with Alexander, and he's three and four apart from that squash so back and forth back, and forth back and forth and as the same thing with cedric. The last time he wrestled somebody else in the squash was thirteen after that yet peyton voice and we'll be Ryan. Now rubies wrestled one of the iconic last four times that she's been on raw, which is not quite as bad as some of the others, but the last time that she vessel somebody other connex on raw was may twelfth against Charlotte so a little bit better only two months, plus and naturally against the iconic. Card to until. After that street profits street profits are a little bit very more very than most but of their last eight matches on raw. They've either wrestled with against the Viking raiders or against on Hello Dry seven times out of the eight, and then they had one match Lashley an MVP They're actually seven in one so there one act. It's getting pushed. That's a positive, but again very narrow group of people that are feuding with after that was Kyrie's sane and Bailey Kyrie's wrestled Sasha. Bailey, every time she's been on raw since. Bailey is a little bit different. Because her feud on raw is with Oscar Kyrie feud on smackdown Nikki and Alexa, so there's a little variation there, but her last eleven raw smackdown pay per view matches have all been part of one of those two feuds with the exception of one match, which was against the iconic in June other than it's Bailey versus Kyrie Bailey versus Nikki Billion Sasha. Nikki Billion Sasha versus Hoskin Kyri Bailey versus Oscar, billy versus Alexa, billion Sasha versus. You're just saying the same names over and over. Still thinks. Daily Shivers Alexa Nikki. And so on. It's boring to read, and they do it over and over and over again. You know if it's boring to read probably not that entertaining to watch and Bailey's at least getting a Porsche, although that still means eighty three and those eleven matches. That's about as strong as they. As they do, but to me like you can do better than that for your champion than than. Than that as your high point, and then Randy on versus big show which they've you know. They've built better and wasn't the same thing over and over, but but they've wrestled. A million times over the years, and if you WANNA create stars, and make your matches feel exciting to me, having the same people wrestle over and over, and over again is an awful formula, and that's that's putting aside the scripted promos and the cult language and everything else they. They need to improve a lot of things together the whole they've dug for themselves, but one big thing that would help a lot is utilizing the roster. They have so many people under contract and a lot of town of people, and they can protect different key stars by having them beat different opponents every week to setup dramatic pay-per-view clashes where they meet other people who have been. been winning a bunch of matches rather than just having the same people wrestle every week. Training winds back and forth and then you, you get to the big show, inconclusive finish and setup the next cycle I mean look at aws. They're bringing Eddie. Kingston Kingston broadened so much energy compared to the same people wrestling every week, and then cody just beats them clean and the ad because code as a big star, and when cody loses a, it's a big deal I think that's so much more of an effective formula than this formula. The Debbie is rolling out and that formula is a big part of why ratings have been doing so badly during that time period. Wow Yeah that lays out. Very clearly different booking philosophy, and I mean the depth of talent wwe has. Available to them. Collective. People trapped, but They don't have to book this way I mean they just they they. That's one of the things they could do to. If they're looking around going. What are we doing wrong? That's leading to the last two weeks robbing the lowest ever in the last two hundred hours being the lowest, the least viewed hours of raw, having not feel like the same thing with just a slight stipulation changes slight change in in the makeup of the same people in a different type of match. Is is part. It's not the only thing that would make a difference, but it's one of the things that should behind their list when they're looking at. Is there something we can do different? Even if we're not sure it'll work? Absolutely and again a big part that is not only the monotony of it, but the fact that it necessitates this back-and-forth booking where nobody comes across the star. And if you had different people working in there, you would have more of a you know more of a likelihood that you just put over the people that are in the key matches by than rather than the the the back and forth. Yep All right, so yeah, you covered. You covered a lot of their from A. Macro Topical Roll through. If you WANNA talk in anymore. She brought to you by the seth. rollins thing yeah, the problem was just there I didn't find it particularly notable in a good or a bad way. as mentioned I. I thought that well actually didn't match rollins. Beating also black clean was stupid given how much more black needs big winston than Seth Rollins, but again I mean it's you know it's they go back and forth, and I thought either back further. look bad by getting beat up by two guys. Nobody coming out to help him, I think. Possibly black being. that it will set the table for black going to seth. I don't think I. Mean it's it's possible, but I don't view ouster black as somebody that would fit well as a stooge, third member of a of a group I think he's. He's much better office. More of a lone wolf baby face, but. Baby doesn't always have to be you know completely without Franz when I would think it could be on a journey to refrain putting him in that situation where it's clear, it's not a good fit. And he sort of works from within, and there's pretty early signs that people can pick up on that. He's already going, and maybe this isn't the right thing and he gains coffee. Yeah, there's a story you can tell where he ends up landing in the place that makes the most sense for him, but he's sort of spinning his wheels right now, so we can go on that journey in the fans can look at that and observe what. You mentioned, which is, this isn't a good fit watch. Allaster kind of come to that realization gained confidence for who he really isn't break away. With the idea, being I had no friends and I'm getting beat down, and I lost Seth. Maybe there's something I can learn from him being the initial impetus for joining. or I mean you could also do the thing where you know Ron says hey last week, nobody is you know nobody helped you out? Why don't you come? Join me and that's. How that you know that both next thing without a prolonged, he's or whether he might accept true and then. Give him a beer. Thirty. Eight All right, so let's. We had a couple of appearances from Ron Simmons. Just making cameos on the show any any thoughts on what that was all about. David said that it's they were thinking of starting a new nation of domination, which would be quite the idea if they if they did it but you know if that was the plan thankfully decided against wow! Yes, so anyway. We had a bunch of stuff. with MVP and. Scheldt Benjamin and the twenty four seven title, and then we had, we stopped by lease, said Rushing Shelton Bobby VP. If you just want to talk about whatever you have, notes on her, want to talk about regarding that group on. Other, the six man was a good match and. All should have won his first match back in. Obviously he'll be losing next week or the week after, but you know it's better than losing the I I suppose Yup. So. promos match and then picture also Promo event, setting that up before we get to the main got more things talk about. But what do you think of the Promos by both of them to try to increase interest in it? I thought Randy Orton was excellent I thought big show is very good in his own right. I thought they did a very good job of building up that. MEENA VAT and Advertising that manufacture, and it still did poorly, which speaks to a point regularly with you wait, which is that emphasizing for viewers? What's coming up later in the show is only effective. If it's something that viewers want to see and I thought this was something that they could make. People want to see based on how well they did it, but. I would not have thought that going in and so I think for a lot of people they they stuck with their gut instinct, which is randy or big again, who cares? In in fairness to my theory, The draw from the first of the third hour was less than average so they started off low lower than you would expect, they would coming out of a pay per view and ordinance and big show held the audience better than than average for this year, so I would argue that the promos helped them stave off an even bigger drop off in the third hour, and that that served up, and there was time we'll spend on the show. And I. Don't think that's a very good argument. Way Number One. They advertise this thing. Out The week, so the fact that they weren't able to draw a big audience suggested that that all the hammering home of that was undone by the fact that people didn't WanNa see it, and as far as the ratings patterns I don't know if everyone talks about this. At. What point do we accept the general trend because I always feel like this good news, the bad news. The good news is fewer people. The good news is the bad news. Is that fewer people tune at the beginning the good news? They retain the more like it's. It's an obvious connection that there's a group of people that watch the three hours of the show. There's a group of people that are less inclined to to watch the show, and if they do, they tend to watch only closer to ours. Ours, and so if you draw more of those sorts of people, they tend to drop off earlier and if you don't tend to draw a lot of those people, the audience retains itself better because the people that don't WanNa, stick around for a really long show tended auto been there in the first place. Those things are connected so very often and There's a very logical reason for why that would be that I. Don't know why people don't draw causal link more because it seems to me very straightforward. I. Okay well two things. I think if. If you have an audience tuning in at the beginning, and this isn't discounting what you're saying, but it's also not stipulating. The idea that if they draw more people in the first hour, those people are more likely to peel off. I don't I. Don't think that's illogical, but I. Don't think explains Everything and I think if you start off with like this week, they started off with one point seven, four, zero, million, which was more than last week, which was one point eight million. And they lost. Two, hundred five. That's the all time record low by the way show. Yes, yeah, that's true. Well, let's let me look for. One point seven fort while it's hard to find a first hour. That's that low. If we go back to. Nineteen ninety seven. No, no, no, yeah, exactly so no go to four weeks to June twenty-ninth, because it's a reasonably similar I our number of one point eight six, so about one hundred twenty thousand off. And they lost two hundred seventy thousand viewers compared to just two hundred, five thousand. That they lost, and my my only argument is similar to me twenty two thousand difference. That's two seventy dollars. To seventy versus to five. Oh two seven, yeah! Still pretty similar, but that is at least somewhat pronounced jail. Yeah, in the average for the years to sixty two so anything that is a twenty percent lower drop off. I am going to for the sake of defending. My argument attributed to the fact that a lot of those people would have left the show except randy and big show did a really good job talking them into staying otherwise they would have peeled off and it would have been more of an average drop off for the show. Yeah, I just don't buy that at all I. Think I mean and look I'm not I'm not. I'm not creating creating creating a You know like a word document where I keep track of these every time, but. Because I've been thinking for a very long period of time. I note every time this happens, and it happens all the time. which is you know either the good news on the show is that they retain their audience better, the bad news they start with the audience or the good news is. They started strong bad news. They didn't retain their audience as well. It's you know those are the two. Patterns that we see over and over and over again, and I think those are fundamentally connected to the length of the the length of the show in the nature of the audience, and there's a reason why it's much less. Much less often than they are with a low audience, and then they have a big drop off as well or they start with audience, and they don't have a very big drop off. Those two patterns are very rare. which if you had shows that weren't three hours I? Think would be relatively common patterns. Apparently remember the days when women's wrestling matches were relegated to the bit card, dumping ground and treated like glorified intermission. The era when it was only men in the talk in the feds getting the biggest matches every night, yeah! Vaguely. Seriously well, we might have a long way to go. Really have come a long way baby, and that's why we started grit and glitter. CAST covering the best in the world of women's wrestling from the horse. Women WWe to the goddesses of startup and everyone in between. Each Tuesday emily myself and our team of guests, correspondence, talk the best matches and the biggest news in women's wrestling. Plus interviews deep dies and discussions about everything for media representation to gear to women behind the scenes roles just search Pete W, torch in the podcast of your choice to subscribe or listen demand and see the entire pw torch cast schedule at pw torch. Dot Com. Okay, so I'm? GonNa cherry-pick couple numbers. Trump! See from April through may from. Cherry pick. I'm admitting up from the table. Right? Okay I'M GONNA take I'm going to grab a five weeks where the first are rating was pretty similar for for the five one point nine, nine, four, one point, nine, four, zero, one point, nine, four, five, one point, nine, three, three. Those are the first hour numbers for four the five weeks April thirteenth to May Eleventh I'm eliminating the one point eight. Oh, seven on May fourth. It's a bit of an outlier because I want similar numbers, the dropoffs, the drop offs for those four shows, one, hundred, sixty to two twenty to forty, seven and one thirty one, so those were high. Higher Than No, those are lower than those numbers reflected post, wrestlemainia low I our numbers, but they're all similar, and there was a wide discrepancy in terms of first to third hour. DROP OFF! During. Five call that a wide scrap three hundred, twenty, six versus one, hundred, thirty, one thousand is a gigantic discrepancy two weeks apart. Says Lulu I mean that's that's still a very very small percentage of the overall audience, and those are the two strongest outliers. You have the whole thing I don't i. don't view that as being I mean. It's one hundred thirty thousand out of out of an overall audience over ten times as large. That doesn't seem like that big discrepancy at all I mean. Obviously, it's all you know. It's all just a framing argument, but I am I don't accept the argument. Those big differences I am sending my statistics to jury I rest my case. All right. What is a number? All right. Let's see here. Obiang, Kabila, what what do you think of Bianca are getting some some TV time now? She's back on. Roz opposed to relegate it to main event. And just the way that they've reintroduced. With. Her I think Bianca's very talented. So the you know them granted. It's better than half off on main event than just training on raw, but the optimal would be to. Have on regularly and winning when she's there because they need. Many talented people as they can get and I think she's one of the more talented people that they have. I think she's her wrestling has improved a lot. She's got a lot of natural athleticism. I think she's come. A significant ways in terms of the quality of harassing over time I think they're still plenty of room for growth enters of personality I. think she is able to pull off cocky in a way that still very likable, but I think that's GonNa. Be The challenge moving forward is you don't want her to become so over the top that should becomes less likeable and you know that's. She's reached that point, but that's something that I'd be. Looking out for you, know for her moving forward. Yeah, I'm. I think she's. A little closer to I think she's in the ambiguous range of turning some people laugh and not managing to be like cocky at this point. Because rapping eastern standard time rather than central time. I don't even notice that so. I will discount that except on a potential subconscious level which I can't disprove. Spread sheet on subconsciousness to. There was a backstage interview with acrylic Crusoe, talking about the Senate with Andreotti and Garza was dissension in the match did. Did I miss something. Or did they edit something out? Then then? They referenced in forgot that they referenced. If there was an remember. Upset they lost. Yeah, but it came across like she's like you guys need to get along and. Zelina I don't know. Yeah, it's just weird. It was like they're talking about something that I didn't notice happening Gotcha. Thinking I wasn't thinking about. This is watching it so I'm sort of piecing together in my mind, but my image of it is, they lose the smashed backstage kind of being annoyed with each other because they lost and that's when she says. Hey, you gotta get along. Yeah, I mean. The framing of her comments were like it was your chance and you blew it again. And then Garza said No. We were on the same page and Andrade agreed so the implication what she was saying yard on the same page. They're saying we were, but the match all up in minutes minus commercial I. Don't remember having dissention that cost them the match it just seemed like they lost. Yeah, they're just arguing over the fact that they lost by the way I. Don't WanNa I don't WanNa break from here, but the as we're talking the nationals world series flag. What a moment weighed it. What a moment today! I, forgot. SUCKER! Any thoughts on the actual metric profits and Garza underwriting. So not really didn't stand out to me when we're another I remember back in eighty seven and ninety one way back when Minnesota one one something in sports China in the parade, and that was a really cool thing so I. I didn't mean to diminish it by pretending that I didn't know they remember I remember those teams to Jack Morrison and Kirby Puckett Kent Her back and and a lot of. Greg with Gregg Gonyea spelled the same Gary Guy Eddie. Hi Yes gary. Guy Yeti tip greater basement Tim laudner. Frank Viola sweet music. Yes, he was. He was a great pitcher for years. He was yeah. Was that a shot back? Here's a great pitcher for a few years. Well, he didn't have longevity. Because I mean and and it wasn't shot because I think people don't think frankly Ola as great as he was fine because it didn't last that long. L. Newman. Yes. I do remember. When I was a kid, baseball was my favorite sport, and it was also a baseball card collector, so I I remember G- lots and lots of you know random obscure major leaguers from the you know the late eighties through mid nineties. Can I sell you some baseball cards? They seem to not have a value like I anticipated as a teenager. On them. No they haven't not at all Ma Still I. Mean I still have like because I i. I stopped like. But still get them occasionally and so i. have a decent like collection of autographs are probably Probably pretty valuable, but yeah. Most of them are not worth anything I think actually my the thing that I have that is the might be the most value is. Eddie Guerrero autograph from that WCW. Top Sat when they're doing like official autographs And those things are very hard to find and and quite expensive, so that might be the best one. That from a show for like thirty or forty bucks back in like maybe like one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine or something so that'd be like one of the rare. Cards purchase that actually appreciated. I do have the Gretzky rookie I haven't looked up with. That's what that's worth. Open okay. Yes, be doing well, yeah! You know what brought up. L.. Newman is like okay I'm GONNA stumped out on this one and I did. It reminds me of yesterday. Tyler sage on the AWA dynamite post show, and at the end he's like yeah, you know twitter I've got a lot of diverse interests, lot of knowledge and a lot of where you know pockets of weird pockets and stuff and you know. Bring up anything we'll we'll. We'll talk about it. There's right array of things I I'm interested in. What's Your Favorite Silent Movie from the Thirties starring with a female in a leading role in like answers it. Wasn't a female. Oh Yeah, my favorite, silent from nineteen from the nineteen thirties was this, and he talks for like forty five seconds on I was like wow, I'm going to have to work on this one for next time you're on. Haven't got to that yet. Although there are much more limited pools of of great silent movies in the thirty s relative to the previous decades so much sure what you would. Would you go with from the thirties? but he may be sold me on it. I might when I'm in the Mood for silent movie. Look that up and watch it. I can't my rent it out. I can always go listen back to the end of the chef. Every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on W. Torch Daily Cast Dot com hosted by me PW's columnist. Greg Parks each week I'll welcome co host from the torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails you can listen live most weeks beginning at eight PM, eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view. We go on the air at. At the conclusion of that paper view, you can listen live, but of course the full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs visit, PW Torch Daily cast dot com and click the livestream link to find the next scheduled live show, link search, pw torch, an apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America. Every Sunday pw torch daily CAST DOT COM. All right, let's see I'm getting back entre or was what was the twins reliever during those years, whose last name started with Jeff? I'm I I'm sorry. I name was Jeff. What was his last name? Remember. Once you name it all recognize it starts with our. Jeff reardon. Yes I am. Closer, he was a close yeah. I was thinking of like an obscure middle, reliever. No, no I I'm not even sure I can get like off the top of my head. Come up with Jeffrey also had the big bushy beard, which made a very distinctive as well. Yeah, I'm trying to like think. Yes, he did yes. I'm trying to think of the. All the positions like launer Herbeck Guy Eddie. Who is who is the? It's been this whole time. We've been talking about joining McGraw shortstop. Because, he had an interesting name out. There was a silent letter in it or I. Don't know that was her back, but. Anyway now. We're people. We, want. Adult in that later on my own. So Sasha in Bailey. Come out and react to happenings at horse. Show in that I do kerosene and Bailey your thoughts on all that time. Nothing really to add, and it was again. You know I think they're presumably setting off barely doing something vile to to. Kyrie next the next week before she out so I think that's the the idea there. And then and then I guess it was with big Joe Norton, which is the magic though. I thought this was very well executed that Um big show did a a a very strong job of being sympathetic, and you know suffering at the hands of this really diabolical guy and I thought orden again was was really good in I. Think he's such a strong year. In terms of the way that you know created this really insidious character that feels feels different and feels fresher than you would have expected, and the rating stood out more. Because I think they did a really good job building up that match and it's still died death which to me. Is that even more that they were starting with something that people just didn't care to see and I'm very curious. How the Orden drew. McIntyre program does because I think they've done a very strong job, building or Andrew. McIntyre and making that feel like a big deal and. You'd think that would be able to generate some interest based on how well they've done on it, but. Is Very well may be a deal where people just don't care about about orange because he's been around so long. Which I certainly understand because that was my mentality with orange. For you know for over a decade you know and You Know I. Guess it sort of takes time to overcome those. The presuppositions in the the demo rating just being so bad in a young man. You know eighteen to forty nine it is. I mean I, just I mean that's I'm trying to think of like how many eighteen to twenty five year olds in that range. Have the affection or a recognition of what big show. Like, do they see big show? Tune in see a big show match and I I don't know that they do. Ten year olds who are watching his Netflix's series might but I'm not sure that twenty so. I doubt it I mean it wasn't like that was some hit. On the net flux line one eleven year old who runs into the room big shows on, he goes. because. He watched series. Yeah he just he benched it. Over to mornings. When he thought it was. Do you think he would have gone to it if you weren't his Dad Oh? Yeah, I didn't tell them assuming that this is your son. I'm sorry. Know another ten year old. No, I didn't. I didn't encourage it. I mean I. Don't encourage him to watch wrestling. He just does well. He's still he's still might have been like. Wow only. Wrestling here's a wrestler. Sit. Powell, CIECHANOW. Yeah I don't know. I think I mean perhaps i. mean he the idea that? Yeah, there's something wrestling related, and it's a sitcom. Netflix's saying hey, you should watch it in. The watched didn't liked it enough to binge it. Yeah. I mean I could've. Skipped it. Cover wrestle. I don't know. I can interview and ask him. Access to find that information. Steve Lombard dozy by the way the name I was trying to think of. The Nazri mistaken with the Brooklyn Brawler, no and the baron gear bookie remember that Juan Berenguer Middle Reliever. Of course barringer. Art I I have the VHS I have not given that up. The baron gear boogie. VHS tape. I think they gave it away to game I. Don't know how I ended up. I haven't so. Someone really wants that. You don't even price. Okay, Yeah so anyway back to my actually more relevant point, I wonder if twentysomethings just you know they're watching w. you know like I mean. I mean there's almost as many people in that in that demo. And if we broke down the demo, even tighter, there's probably more people in their twenties watching Awa than Rod lately and care more and it. Would you know about cody and Moxley, and the bucks and on and on then care about big showing radio, who are who are legacy, stars, and legends and Famers, but have been around a long time, and have had some bad story lines, and I don't think in the last ten years have been part of things that we necessarily capture the attention of those those twentysomethings when they were kids. Yeah, well, it's two different things on the two. Because with orden he's been involved in. In, so much stuff that's been uninteresting for such a long period of time were as big show pictures of generally treated as something important. You know like he's just a guy that turns back and forth, and you know you lose more often than he wins. He's not. He's not presented somebody important. This is an attraction, so you know I don't know why that would resonate with people. I think I think that the fact that all the people stick around more is less about them identifying with any and big show because they're older and more about that. They just don't have like when you're younger. I think you're more apt to just like. This isn't very good. I'll try something new. To this. I'll go to that so. Younger people I think gravitate towards whatever's at you know. Whatever's popping at that point in time you know whether it's music or TV or movies or whatever, and so you know the the stuff that's just sort of coasting on its reputation there. I think older people are less likely to drift away from as quickly so i. think that's more. What's going on and I think view would certainly benefit from having if you're going to spend this time in this attention. And I think again. That done a good job with this stuff here, but I think you'd. You'd benefit more from focusing that television. Time on making people think that Keith Lee is a really big deal Anwar. smackdown or making people think that Matt Riddle is a really big deal or or You know we're allaster, black or one of the many people that are sort of fresh and new. Yeah, no I, a youth movement, and I mean I think that's what Paul Heyman was trying to do within the confines instructor structure of what he could. But you know Ali and and riddle. I'd be putting time into more than randy and big show in part. Because it just hasn't. It's been the a focus during a time of declining overall ratings. Problem with the with the Haymond thing. Is that by the time that he had started trying to those people so many of them had already been defined out, and Mike I like trying to do it there, but like I I thought a lot of the people he was doing. We're just pastor and I know I differ from other people who FAO g with they are. A bad opening fetch show I'll look. Can You do? Uh can start their. That thing just sort out of the way. towards the DUGOUT. Focus. Occur to I'm quicker to view people as being unsalvageable than other people are put. Unsalvageable, but like you're better off just building somebody new, even if they aren't as you know as good, just grab somebody fresh and I think thousand problems there. It was that so many those people had already been. Weakened in the booking and presented is not being very important that you know it would have been better. Just grab a new group than and run with them. I have noted twitter quote of the week. I'm, quicker. To view unsalvageable than others are. Okay, that's actually that's actually not true in General Santos pro wrestling setting and I don't i. don't really care. I just WANNA provocative quote. CONTEXT NUANCE OR, anything What Fun is that? We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening to commercial breaks? 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Let's see attorney just around the SPN and or just showing close up of a bunch of empty seats. Let's. Mark, some. Seats. Yes, all right, let's see. So, we're done with raw anything that I skipped over that you had Onoda. Ana. Let's. Let's jump to last night. W show. and. They opened with Cody in and. We before we get going on this show I got something to say about this one this well. Oh this is a great show I thought. Entertaining stuff up and down. Really good wrestling. Really good angles got a bunch of people over I thought. This is one of the best episodes of dynamite. They've done You know it wasn't. It wasn't presented as the most important in terms of the stakes, but up and down the show I was watching one segment after another I think this is doing. This is entertaining, and it's getting people over over and over and over again this this was a great template for what eight for dynamic should be. Yeah, yeah. I felt bad because I after I. Do the PODCASTS and do my I do the life podcast afterwards and I do my hotline and. Talked through the show and I have a chance to reflect an. Hotline and I was like. This was a better show than I portrayed it at the top of the. At the top of the live show shows over boom I. Scramble I. Get logon start taking calls talk with coast. Whatever and I was like well. What's the one thing you grab and go on? This is what this week will be remembered for, and it had like lots of good stuff, but I was like well nothing jumping out as at one singular thing that yeah start with other than same evora and the idea of him coming back, which wasn't really about. It was something kind of to the side of the show, but then when I by the end of the evening after talking about it for hours. I was like this wasn't like. It didn't have like one big thing, but start to finish. It was just. It, moved forward so many storylines. It felt kind of that debt. The remember the after Wrestlemainia when things get reset. There'd be everything that SORTA be freshened up. You could tell there was some ideas that are holding off on because they just had to get through Wrestlemainia. And after three special shows with themes now they're heading towards their big show And they have all these things that they just kind of put the wheels in motion on. Yeah. I'm with you the first hour, just so high-octane, and then even the rest of the show. It didn't have that. Energy in the ring or whatever, but it had in terms of character development, just kind of intriguing little droplets here and there of things that moves move things forward and reshuffled I thought was really good So, what did you think of the Promo from Kingston? I loved it I thought that young any Kingston was such a breath of fresh air I mean not that that to me is professional wrestling. You know like I'm not saying make any. Championed by any means or even necessarily the sign that he can extend like that's basically what I want, pro wrestling a big rugged tough guy. You give him a microphone. You don't know what he's going to say. And what he's focused on is kicking somebody's ass. You know like that that's us. That's what I like about wrestling and and Python, True absolutely I thought it was a great poem of the mattress. Entertaining to I. Hope that they work. The thumb tacks into the cody story like I think he shouldn't just come back next week. Like nothing happened, but I thought it was a segment wherever everybody got off, I thought cody got over in in in in winning. I thought Eddie Kingston made a great accounting firm South, and like like I, said I'm I'm fine with signing him. Find with not signing him Eddie Kingston's guy been around for a long period of time his you know his his strengths and weaknesses are pretty clear Here's a guy that I feel like it kind of Kind of came along too late in the sense that I thought he would have fit into that e C, w time period really really well in terms of strengths. And he instead came into like the period where it was more of an hour away time period, and those are not his strength as much, but the fact that he was different than a lot of people. I think you know. Give some advantages that other people don't have. Yet so the match itself. What did you think of cody's role in this and the continuation of other portrayal? I thought it was a good match yeah. A. I, don't read too much into. Cody's mannerisms will make another just because you know as we talked about he's he's Dory funk junior character where he's the champion. He's a star and the way that you feel about him. Largely depends on who who's interacting with. Each week. What one thing I didn't think was funny. Was Eddie Kingston brings in the thumb tacks in the bag, and if you've been watching wrestling for any period of time, recently, you're expecting. Those or thumb tacks because people bring the tax. You know bags. All the time, but poor Tony Savant he has no idea what might be in this bag and he's just shocked when it's tax. And it reminded me of all those episodes of nitrile been watching where Tony is full each and every time by fake sting sometimes multiple. You know like. Oh, it staying, staying at staying, and then when like you know the six foot ten guy you know attacks, you know. Diamond. Dallas page with a bat and pulls off the plastic thing. He's like okay. That wasn't staying and then another fake. Sting. It's I. I appreciate Tony Sherani decades of. Of being completely unable to to to figure things out. and was completely four by. Two so poor, poor gullible Shirvani. Yes. I think he was expecting a longer suspension for Sammy though so we got to give them a little break. They go. PRE-TAPE MOXIE PROMO? Not Super Long but any comments. Jeff and Griffin Garrison. I like to spend a lot too. I thought MGM had that killer instinct that I've been wanting to see more of where he just looked like he was not just a jerk, but somebody who's dangerous and vicious and I think that adds a gravity to his character and he just you know destroyed poor griff garrison as he should have. That's that's exactly what he should have done. I thought very factor in adding dimension to the character that he would benefit from having. yeah, this was my one of my favorite jeff segment because it captured his. He'll entertainment factor without being too entertaining where you're like kind of with him. And then he was really tough in the match he came across as bad as in the match, not playing chicken role or leaning on wardlow to help or anything like that and I think for him to reach the highest level on the car. That is where the that that's the direction. They should be going with his with his presentation. Exactly. Remember Baker. Baker getting a little over exposed I think she'd be better off taking a week or two of television You know they've sort of they. We've got the joke now and serve just hitting variations of the joke and this it's a funny gimmick, but I think it would feel fresh off a little bit, and then bought it back particularly since you can't wrestle right now, so she can only. Yeah Yeah. Then, we had. The interview, Tasr and Brian Cage, with. Tasr Explaining that it was rough week, brank angels and Appleton throwing the Towel, so they followed up on that, and then explained how they kind of came to to to piece on that and try to justify why he's still the Twa World Champion, and then we had the ink with Derby Allen running out followed by ricky stark soon, then Max. Yeah those good poems I tasked, although I thought it was still very hard to justify why cade cages carrying around this F Twa. Title I, don't think they're all to pull that off on. I understand Ricki. Strokes is an early contender for knockout of the night. You have seen Saturday night event he, he did very well. There pretty pretty brutal. And I think it's a good spot for for stocks. Then, we had butcher laid against the young bucks. Your thoughts on that. I? Really liked this match as well entertaining as hell plus Lakewood JFK established that toughness to the box rather than just doing moves. which is you know he there another act I think benefits from having more of that the one the one improvement I would have made is to a WHO's to say. What's improvement one? The one modification would have made is. is to give the box more reason to show that edge because you know the butcher, the blade have been. You know kind of feeling the box, but it's not like they did anything. You know particularly bad to Piss them off. Whereas if you had a built in reason for them to get more upset, like let's say they said something about the Boxes Dad. Then you could, you could accentuate the story by saying like Oh. You know the butcher and the blade did axe look at. The way the box acting here. This sends a message of what happens when you got them really motivated. Yes. Yes, all right. Then we move into our number two with the women's match. diamanti getting when here any thoughts on that. Others are the disappointment I was expecting more I didn't think this was a good match at all. and they announced the the women's Tournament. The. Lethal, lottery battle basically your thoughts on on that being a theme later this summer. We'll see how they do. They never worked out well in the past, but I do think as I was thinking about it that the idea works better over series of weeks where you throw in about parents, and then you can sort of establish the new partners and have them interact with each other and tell stories that I think that works better as something that happens over a series of weeks and in one night. Where you just sort of do it, and they interact in whatever way that is, and then you move on so I think there's more possibilities with happening over a period of weeks. All right. Do you have any kind of big art that you think they or end point that they're trying to get to with this like any prediction on where they what when we look back and they'll be like okay. They did it for this reason, but in the end this is the main thing people remember. I don't know I think they probably have a number of ideas with it. Yup All right so then hangman page in five a win for page, not a squash. And then the angle with F. T. W. in Kenya, a dark order, and also a little Colt Cabana cal. Yeah! I thought they gave five too much time with hang page, but least page. Put over superstar in the end. and they did a lot of things in the segment. They advanced Cabana story they set up the dark order against page and Omega, and they began to set up what feels like a pretty natural match for some point in time with FDR and page against the box and Omega. You know the beer the beer-drinking good old boys against the you know the Bible Thumping do-gooders. Even WanNa be betrayed that way. I'm probably not but you know their natural personality. differences so I. I don't think they will probably do that as a long term thing, but it feels like a natural to do at some point, and you know you tease a little bit of dissension before that, and then you move to whatever you have plan next after you. Are made by the time Jake Chris Jericho can start Jurassic Express. The match first, and then your thoughts on the. The return of semi bar. Match and yet foot the laid out the. Return pretty well Come back. He said something stupid. They suspended for a month. That's. All right, so then moving onto an xt from last night aren't wait, aren't you? GonNa ask me if there's anything Oh yes. I know the answer now. But. was there anything else on the showtime? Do you know the answer? Because there is something that I'm talking on the show which I can't believe you didn't bring because I thought it was one of the highlights of the shell. If the highlighted the, let me think. No, don't I? I'm not going to look at the report. I'm just going to think what could I forgotten. I can't think of it. I loved Lance Archer destroying people, back. There's locker room full of you know just little tiny people who I don't even know why they were back there. Presumably, they're wrestling on darker something and. Art should just laid waste. He's throwing them through walls. He threw one of them through the ceiling. He dumped one in a trash can I I was ready for another ten minutes of that I I thought that was so much fun. so yes, more more Lance Archer, just just to store people placed. Tremendous! All right on to. It and that's one of the things. I enjoyed the show as well. There's a whole lot of people just getting. beat up and that I I enjoy that nipple wrestling show. All right so moving onto x t perhaps Yup. We are we have. DEXTRA. Killian Day in in the in the open. Oh, I'm sorry. The announcement at the beginning by Regal to about the North American title. I I liked the way. The keithly carried himself in presented himself in that intro thought he came off as a big star on that I was surprised that there was a fair amount of criticism from vacating the North American title so quickly Costa me like he was a secondary champion. He got his chance. To prove is the best overall. He won the primary title, and so we'VE AKA the secondary title that to me is that makes perfect sense to me? I don't have any problem with that As far as the way that Regal announced determining the new champion, I do not like as much I think you know the series of triple threat matches followed by the ladder matches. Give me a gimmick. Gimmicky year then I like when you're creating a new champion. All right, then texture Lummus and Killian deigned extra wins this one over ten minutes. Oh. This is pretty good. I thought it was better than a lot of the mattress and I'm amused by adding some baby-faced mannerisms to a psycho character. It's it's it's an interesting. Contrast everybody likes. MERCH money. You go all right. resign. Go and ever is just quick. Win for Brazil. sheltie BLACKHEART aaliyah. Roberts Dome? I mean the coverage stone character is death, and they should just drop it you know it's like one of those main roster acts. That's beyond redemption It's unsalvageable. And and Mercedes joining him does her. No favors so yeah they. Should just move on. On salvage. Stone, you know, make them into some other character. I, mean this this Robert Stone brand with the Leah's just yeah, it's not working. unsalvageable was one of the runners for the name of the PODCAST. Aloha torch faithful. This is Kelly wells host of twit, talks and X. T every Thursday. You can hear me and my gang of. Tom Style shares thoughts from the Lai tapings and torch recap limbered as well as a rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in annexed live on USA, network, search, torching apple, podcasts or podcast, APP to subscribe or listen on demand and seedy, entire W torch, daily cast schedule at pw torch, daily past dot, com, cheers! Let's see. A little a segment on Isaiah's swerve Scott. Did that do anything for you? Yeah well. I mean. You know. I thought it added some personality to to who he is yeah. All Right You. Homerun! All right Brunton read roderick strong Johnny Gargano. Behind what's what? Hockey Homerun I'm not gonNA. Say they're. Talking about I think I, it was live. Yankees and I must have paused at some point. Oh. The bad news. I. Don't know why I was about fifteen seconds behind, but somehow I was fifteen seconds behind. No I was fifteen seconds behind I. Thought. You would already seen it when I said it. You had to be thirty seconds behind. Whatever technically speaking because I did hit the back button once because I wanted to see a graphic on the screen in the background, so yeah, it wasn't that far behind. Yeah Yeah you're the bringer of bad news. A pox on you. Always said kill the Messenger. Wow. Oh a ball. Not a straight. Somebody's one fan just left the building. About all right? This is not a watch along. Let's get back to. Read Strong Gargano triple threat to advance to the North American championship ladder match. Thought this was a very good match surprised at the wind. Is Good so I'm cool. With I'm getting a little more of a focus. Is there any chance read winter North American title I mean it would feel a little retro Gargano to win. It would seem like a boost for strong. But Bronson read, it would be innovation that I just don't know if it would. If it would work I think it would I mean I'm not. Anti Regis the way he's been booked. I know. We got to win back, but he just doesn't seem like he's been booked to someone. You would take seriously quite that level. And chances are very very low threshold. Wrong but I. Certainly I certainly do not expect him to win this match. I would be very surprised if he won this match yet. He wins and then. I mean I don't think a title match that it's going to add a lot of suspense with him. In it I guess, put it that way. Oh he's he's a different body type, so you can do some different spots with him. You know he can be You know you can catch on doing big spots and they can do. Are you know big man die of at some point? I I think I think it makes sense to have him in the match. I only. Timothy Thatcher Thatcher a winter twelve minutes. I'd very much like this match. rematch is on TV or tricky. Because so often, the loser really gets hurt if they lose twice, but on the flip side. If you're trade winds, it often means nothing or hurts both guys, but here I thought that should be strong in the first time, and in this bachelor can came back strong thought he showed. He's no joke. He was a tough challenge. Giving dot. Everything could handle so thatch how to use a dirty trick to get by. I thought Thatcher stayed strong, but you also gained a more respect for work. In the way he was able to handle himself even in defeat, so I thought it was those ineffective story that twelve for both guys. anything more on Robert Stone and Mercedes Martinez segment that followed. Now. Okay, then made Dodgy Cova against carrying cross across when he was one of thirteen minutes your thoughts on that. I love the execution of this one I thought it the way we came out wanting to help, but Jacovic waved him off. Thought was really effective. Cross was a menace. Lee was good friend and Dutch Kovic was a tough guy who just wouldn't give up. the one thing I would have changed as I thought it was at it strongest and most dramatic point after cross kick the steps into Kovic, had and then mounted him in the ring, and then Lee comes out and then crossed MSA mcgann and gives them that brutal, looking Albo and to me. They should have just done. A Kale stoppage finished with the elbows. Elbows because I thought it was. It was more dramatic and brutal when he was doing that. And instead when they apply the rear naked choke after that the rear naked choke felt kind of merciful by contrast to the elbows made I thought crossing less brutal than when he was using the elbows. I know they don't do a lot of the Those TKO finishes Banal without fans. Now's the time if you want to do. More of those two to educate people to them and I thought this one really was a was a match that called for that without the optimal thing, so I'm that's the one thing I would've. Switched up. What do you make of just undisputed era and where Adam Cole has been since? Since its laws. He hasn't done that much. On television. That angle they. Show, but they didn't mention undisputed air I don't think. Yeah. They did the angle with that Jackass. What's his name Oh yeah. Anyway what doesn't matter what his name? That was that productive, but Other than that I don't really get a sound I mean he's in a place where you could turn baby face if if you wanted, but you could also work to heal, so I assume they have something significant plan for him shorty coal. Groundwork. I gave you the dirtiest of could tell I. could tell over over audio. Well. What honest here is no like that if they're if they're getting ready to bring it with main roster. Skit is how they think like the first thing people are gonNA. Think of his Adam Cole. Super Thin, skinned about being short, and that's what they think is. That's what Vince McMahon would think. Everyone thinking. Stop Your fussing. We stop it. I don't want I. Don't WanNa. Think about this. Okay? We will move on I think it's possible. Not what's happening, so I'm going to north. Okay sounds good anything else next. Kind of kind of a weird thing valor vignette. Public more of a hill? So. We'll see next week with that. Bizarre match with Finn Bala Versus Timothy Thatcher versus texture luminous quite the. Quite the group. Wrestling fans are you that person that works in a pro wrestling reference to every aspect of your life well, we're those kind of people to, but we do so with mixed martial arts I'm Robert via host hosts of enemy. Talk for pro wrestling advanced every Monday on pw torch, his daily cast lineup. Not only do we cover every you have see Bella tour event. We provide context that only wrestling fan would really understand I mean. We're the type of people that if you ask us about how much of a mess the middleweight title situation is, we're likely to reference WCW in the early nineties. Think of us as a podcast for casual MMA. Done by hardcore wrestling nerves, and you could find us by searching pw torch and apple podcasts or any popular podcast APP and were always available on demand at P.. Torch de cast dot com where you can check out. The entire lineup of the PD matured daily casts. All right. Let's see so we are from A. Standpoint down to you f see what's going on in the world of. What isn't going on in the world of your say? So task card was a mixed bag, a lot of decisions, but also a bunch of. Different submission. Yes, so a bunch of. First Rodney Bar I want. He'll hook first triangle choke first round guillotine, choke and I. Choke. Main of that was going to dig. that. It was scary performance Davison Figueredo. He just white. Joseph Bene- this out. I mean. He knocked him down early. He clearly rocked. went for your naked choke once looked like he had it, but joe fought out what I again. Joe Out again went for third time, look. He really had at that time, but again. Joe Got out return to his feet so on the feed. Davis knocks him down with a punch for second time. JOE GETS UP Davidson. A third time late knocks him down again with another punch bloodies Joe with elbows, and then he applies this rear naked choke face, crank and just twisted at this nasty angle. If carrying causes a choke it. Look like this. I would've felt differently about about the point earlier and Joe went unconscious from that I. Mean it's the only time Joe's ever been submitted. MMA and it was a brutal route. I mean. Joe showed heart, but Davison I mean. He's a phenomenal fighter and he's a violent fighter. It's it's too bad. They've emptied out the division because I love to see him against Dimitrius Johnson or one. One hundred pseudo or killed you Horiguchi on one of those guys but i. don't even know who Ho fightbacks maybe brandon marina or someone like that Komeda that was Jack Hermansen and Calvin gasoline, and that was a quick fight. Ask them took it to the ground, but Hermansen started going for submissions, and it caught gastronome in a heel hook. hermits was so happy about his when he was very very happy. that's. Five wins in six fights for him pretty strong competition so. He's definitely one of the top middleweight contenders and. Gasoline lost three straight, so that's a big setback for him. of all the missions on the card I thought Ariane. Lipsky was the most impressive they they watch the ground early and Lipsky Lipsky sets up this this knee bar from more elevated position than you frequently get with Niba ours It was almost like the old point the clown. Wait. Why don't you GonNa? Highlight the other home run their regard better homerun, good news The good guys are are are coming back well I. Mean you don't have as much of a vested interest in this one, but actually I do the Yankees history of destroying the twins in the playoffs. Leads every every opponent of there's ABC's. Yes, yes, come aboard! I'm also an avowed Yankee hater having. Grown up this as an orioles fan before the nationals moved to town so. The Yankees were. Were the top rifles in the MINNESOTA. Twins came from Washington originally. So, too, so yes, there's a little little connection with us, so I'm a fan by default of the Washington basically. There, you go, so yeah, so it was like it was sort of like the old stomping polar where she had the knee at this. You know just cranking it up from a top position with a lot of leverage and body weight behind the bar when she accident WanNa Karleena was in tremendous pain shootout out from this Only knockout of the night was Roman. Dorsey, who threw a kick at these Abrahim off and calm with a knee as he was throwing the kick and the knee. Ibrahim's lights out so impressive knockout there Joe Duffy he wanted for a takedown Alvarez, but all rose quickly grabbed the guillotine at the TAP. There Duffy retired after the fight his his claim to fame was that they beat Conor McGregor before McGregor made it to the of C., but he lost three straight and sort of faded as As a factor a mural bossy took the fight with Malcolm Gordon on short notice, and he got Gordon Down Quick Watch work on the ground pod triangle choke and got the submission so good win for him. this weekend is the best TV card in a little while main of it is Robert Whitaker against terror intel great fight Whitaker's former champion tells top contender. He has a strong fan following his own rights 'til that is automakers. Have it as a pick em so very competitive match up in a really important one too I'm very curious how that one goes co-feature. Marisha Shogun, Antonio. GARRA battle of legends they fought twice before Shogun one both and Nogueira's now forty four years old, so Shogun, certainly the favourite. Here. Really interesting heavyweight bout for Brazil Verdun meets Alexander Gustafsen. Retirement proved to be very short-lived and he's not moving up to heavyweight and very curious how he does because he was a very tall, light heavyweight, so you'd figure. He'd be well suited to move up to heavyweight, but he has struggled to a five in recent fights interestingly, Gustafsen is a three to one favorite against Verdun. Who's you know former heavyweight champion fighting heavyweight, so a lot of confidence and Gustafsen and a lot of name, value and star power. Those top three fights in looks like it's going to be. You have seized last relatively uncontested car before as we talked about at the beginning the big sports. Start coming back also on the card is former star way champion Carlos bars? She meets Maria Rodriguez. WHO's Marina Rodriguez? Excuse me, WHO's. But oddly has to draw in the last four fights Alex Cowboy. Oliveira's on the card. He Needs Peterson. Boda the perpetually underrated Francisco tornadoes back. He meets Johnny Herbert so a lot of stuff on the AFC card. Good good, good by car, and then also this weekend is the return of Balladur they're. They're not not biggest car by any means, main event is Ricky Bundy. hus- against Sergio. Patas Patas. Anthony Palace, and he wants tour debut, and so he looks to return here with another one and found house. Is been looking good of light I? Mean he? He has a couple of impressive recent knockouts. So this would be a is a good opportunity for him. during mean meets makes his debut after a pretty long. You've see Ron. He meets Jason. Jackson and Aaron Pico who, if nothing else? Always? Excitement meets Chris Hotly Junior, so that's The you've seen Bella tour cards on this weekend. Oh. No, they're replaying vouchers. I Pech. Brutal. Coming out of the break here. I'm like I said I'm fifty seconds behind what cable service. It's. Verizon files. Okay Yep I've you TV, and I'm now learning. It's for Life Sports. It's behind even though I'm on the live the life feed. And, I found out that if I'm behind the live feed, I will be behind other people. Yes. It's still a Fan a commercial here. I'M GONNA. See the first pitch. I haven't seen it. Oh here we go YEP. He's the wind up. He said Oh no. At least he was wearing a mask, he can deny him. Yeah the mask the mask Curtis Vision. That's class that's great. All right. Look it up, people. We're not going to spoil it for you. It's pretty spoiled. Not Describing. What made me laugh about it, but? I think we discussed everything that happened in the movie. Instead go wash it people. I could add it the the the addition. We haven't spoiled forty. Earlier today across the street at a daycare center on a bike ride some toddlers trying to throw a basketball into a hoop and I think. They had a little more finesse than what I saw saw there. Sorry Doctor Fauci we. We love you otherwise for. Your expert at? Cool so so anything else from current events. No okay, so Tatyana continued recording, and we're GONNA. Go now for VIP members to his review of the Horns Togo book, and the Michael Bisbee book, and then Roskin answer mailbag questions, one of the highlights of VIP membership for so many people is the fix. Mel Bag every Thursday. So go VIP. Don't miss out. Get this show with plugs edited out and get the fix every week. Two three sometimes four hours talking about the previous week in wrestling answering Mellberg questions, book reviews current events. Talk and Fun Banter, so go VIP. POW TORCH DOT com slash. Slash go! VIP is how you become a VIP member. You can dive into our library. There are so many rabbit holes to go down whatever time period you're most fascinated by. You can read our contemporaneous coverage. What did we say at the time? It was happening for anything that happened professional wrestling. Since the late nineteen eighty s including a lot of familiar names that you have heard including aircrew was on the eight W. Post show last week as my co host, he was a columnist for me for the person. Torch weekly newsletter back circa, nineteen ninety. So. There's a long running history of a lot of veteran voices, contributing who back then rookie voices, and you can see what he was writing saying about the wrestling scene back then follow the ups and downs, and Ebbs and flows the highs and lows of the wrestling business in our unmatched single source library. Of Independent Voice hard hitting commentary, and behind the scenes insights into what was going on a pro wrestling including just for membership. If you're into reading, vintage, insider, question and answer format torch, talk interviews, there's. A ton a ton of big big names who added long-form interviews with before there were podcast interviews hosted by wrestlers, or before they were podcast period, the longest running most in-depth series of interviews were transcriptions of long interviews. I conducted with pro wrestling's biggest names whether it was executives from W. W. Executive Vice Presidents Bill Watts Jim herd Kip FRY Bischoff to wrestling announcers and managers. Jim Ross crews Lance Russell daybreak on and on to approach things biggest names stone. Cold Steve Austin the Rock Hall Hogan Goldberg Kevin Nash Scott. Hall on and on. You can dive in and just go year by through our archives organized chronologically available in pdf or text formats, actually most cases now both PDF format in our library, and we add a new PDF and text back issue every weekend to to keep things fresh from the twentieth anniversary date. Anyway. That'll do it for me. Thanks to todd and thanks to all of you for listening and we'll be by tomorrow night for the smackdown. Poe, show over on the right brands until then again, thank you and sign off. Have you subscribe to the Torch Daily cast yet? It's a free daily podcast with shows throughout the week dedicated to ring of honor, all elite wrestling impact, wrestling major league, wrestling and X. T and m may talk for pro wrestling fans. That's Monday through Friday and on Saturdays. Check out the deep dive with Rich Fan, where he examines a single topic in depth and then Sunday nights. It's wrestling night in America with Greg Parks. You can listen live or download the show later at W. Torch, daily cast dot com. Just click on the live. Live stream link. 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You don't know much about, and you're like I want to learn more about that next thing you know you can't wait to hit play again during your next free time whether it's when you're exercising or cleaning the house and doing dishes or riding a bike or just trying to unwind at the end of the night also. Audible offers a bunch of free stuff. Each month for members bonus content. There's a whole selection you can download every month that refreshes every month and one of them from a month or two ago. Is Nut. Job and it is about a truck. That disappeared. What happened to it? I had to download it and I started listening to it and I can't wait to get back to it, and that's what's fun about audible is there's a book for every mood and as you build up your collection over time. Whatever mood you're in, there's for me I've got usually got two or three books that I'm listening to at any given time and. And it just whatever fits my mood. That day is where I go. They've also got progressing books. 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