20 Episode results for "Jack Lanza"

WKPWP - Interview Friday: "Mean" Gene Okerlund's understudy and replacement in the AWA and WWF, Ken Resnick, gives insights on Gene (1-4-19)

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

1:22:41 hr | 1 year ago

WKPWP - Interview Friday: "Mean" Gene Okerlund's understudy and replacement in the AWA and WWF, Ken Resnick, gives insights on Gene (1-4-19)

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The term promo was an interview they were interviewed by this gentleman mean Jean Oakland who conveyed an every man quality to himself with that proper intimidation and respect and at times come rotary with these professional wrestlers, these tough athletes that he was interviewing about their next big fight and his name was gene Oakland, Jesse Ventura dubbed him mean Jean Oakland hokey. Ghan made that Monica even more famous and gene was the face and the voice of my early years watching professional wrestling, gene, Oakland had his best years. I would argue he was most well suited in a best fit in his role in the Awa where he spent the seventies and early eighties. The longest stretch of his career. The most the largest body of work is by far what he did in Awa more than what he would later do for the WWF and WCW, but he is an icon. His death has received mainstream coverage that seems to be on the level of what say dusty Rhodes received which I thought was on the higher end of expectations for dusty. And also for me, gene. And and I'm saddened by his death. He's seventy six years old had a kidney replacement, and and health issues where people who are around him recently, kind of new things things had turned into a struggle for him. But boy did he live a a a life of of big big travels in into progressing industry hitting all three of the big major brands. The Awa was part of the big three. It was the largest geographical territory from the sixties through the eighties, and then jump to the WWF when Vince McMahon paid paid a lot of people who work for the Awa to come work for him at a time when he looked at that vast territory of Awa as a key to his success with national expansion Jesse Ventura hulk HOGAN, Dr David Schultz, Bobby Heenan on and on. I mean, it was the the wrestlers that he plucked from Awa was a major major factor in his early success. And then he would go on to be part of w w nitro years giving WCW some of that that look and feel familiarity to fans who had otherwise primarily watched the WWF perceive that as a major league, so Gino. Lynn dead this week at age seventy six and on today's Wade Keller. Pro wrestling podcast interview. Friday for January fourth two thousand eighteen I am very pleased to be joined by someone who I think can speak better about Gino Oakland than just about anybody. When it comes to what he was like behind the scenes, and that is his under study and replacement in the Awa killer, Ken Resnick is also be dubbed Ken Resnick worked under me, gene, Oakland and Awa and then when she left he replaced him and became the person who literally did what Jean Oakland had done prior. Can would eventually also go to the WWF where Gino Lind was although not for long, gene was cutting back schedule at the time that Resnick arrived, and so his career path paralleled me jeans, and he learned from him. So I'm looking forward. To sharing with you all of cans, personal firsthand insights as someone who did the job, Gino Kalin, did and got to know him on a professional and personal level. So after this break, we'll come back in talk with Ken about, gene. I want to remind you that the Thursday flagship edition of the way Keller person podcast dropped yesterday. Thursday, January third and progressing towards columnist. Greg parks was my guest and for about an hour and a half. We talked about the top ten stories of twenty eighteen Greg on Twitter said this was one of his favorite podcast he had ever done. And we've done a lot together. And he's done a lot a lot a lot hundreds and hundreds of podcast without me. I'm proud of it too. I think you'll really enjoyed Greg. And I each came up with our own top ten list, and we had some similarities at the top, and then some differences as we got deeper into the top ten list. Also, we did another forty minutes if I remember right discussing our stories beyond the top ten so, you know, we didn't rank them necessarily eleven through twenty. But what deserved honorable men? And why why did some of these stories make the top ten list, but what was their impact? Anyway, that was a VP exclusive after show that was part of the Wade Keller hotline for VIP members yesterday, also so if you aren't VIP and you want to go VIP the place to find out more about VIP membership is p w torch VIP, info dot com. PW torch, VIP info dot com. Decades of archives. 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Check it out PW podcasts dot com are so right after this Ken Resnick joins me. I'm excited about this really looking forward to you getting. To hear these stories that can shares about me, gene, Oakland. Hi outline help. My family's New Year's resolution is to be more active, but we could use some new styles for motivation run into old navy navy. Yup. Right now, all navy active styles for the family are up to fifty percent off kick it into gear with leggings, mesh, teas and more. Fifty percent off who I'm feeling motivated already. Top started to seven bucks for adults. Six bucks for kids with compression leggings active pants from fifteen dollars for adults twelve dollars for kids, kids gentleman. Von we're going old navy. Hurry in for up to fifty percent of old navy active right now, it will be an old navy dot com. Vowed one through one thousand excludes in store clearance. You just bought a house bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents. You ask if anybody noticed you mowed, the lawn till people to stay off the lawn compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again, good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance. Which of course, we'll go right into the lawn. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all states. Situations. Hi, Ken rats, Nick now. Join me is a veteran Awa and WWF announcer. Ken good to have you back on the podcast today. My pleasure. Wade good to talk you. I just wish it was for a little better circumstances. Yeah. Well, let's let's make this a celebration of what Gino Kurland meant to wrestling fans, but also a realistic look at at what the man was like behind the scenes to work with and there's almost like a lot of people are focused on obviously his WWF days and even hosting tea and Tuesday night titans at the end of that shows, Ron and then WCW that's natural. That's where he had the largest national audience. But you have a tremendous insight. First person insight into gene Oakland in his. Awa days too in the sense that you were his replacement you add to fill some pretty big shoes. When gene went to the WWF. So I guess my first question for you is is what was your first exposure to gene as you're and talk about that a little bit. And then also your first interaction with him on a professional level, obviously being from Minnesota like gene was in living here. My first exposure as a wrestling fan and viewer was watching him on the Awa and even back, then I mean, he brought a different look to to the interviews. I mean, he he was more involved himself as a personality, and and was fun to watch. And then my first. Time meeting him was when Verne hired me I been doing sports for an NBC affiliate and met at a actually a celebrity golf and tennis charity tournament, and he called me later we had lunch. And that's when he hired me. So I was initially hired just to work with gene being the office kind of take some of the the interview load off of him because as you well know in those days every interview was markets Pacific. Unlike today, so on a interview day, you sometimes would have, you know, fifty or sixty interviews you had to do. So I it was very cordial gene tried to give me a lot of tips. And I kinda broke in doing some. Of the smaller markets, and gene was very good. You know, afterwards critiquing what I did. And and giving me tips, but in a trying to be very helpful way. And then it was just a very short time later when he just told Vern he was done and was going to WWF. So then all of a sudden, I was V guy and and doing all of them. You this is mostly about, gene. But I gotta ask you this about you. Or that had in this is in a way potentially about Jean that at the feel big pressure. I know gene had to feel big pressure replacing Mario O'Neill. And gene was beloved. I was at the age where Jeanne was I wasn't the adults who missed Mario Neil. And thought gene was this over the top carnival Barker like some of the people of of the Martin O'Neill generation thought he was my voice and face of the Awa he was the guy who interacted brilliantly on interviews with wrestlers. He's the one who made me beg my mom to take me to wrestling shows before she she even could fathom doing such a thing. And understood what this thing was all about. There's my generation then saw you show up, and we're like who's this guy with the mustache? How how did you feel about that? You're right there were huge shoes to fill and I was still learning on the job. And suddenly there was no more time for a learning curve. But I was so incredibly lucky that I had been around enough where I got such a amazing help and guidance. I mean, just think about being able to learn from the likes of of blackjack Lanza, and Bobby Heenan and Nick Bach winkle and the crusher, and luckily I had been around enough where they were trying to help me already knowing me, and with my, you know, best interest in as a side note. I'm sure you're aware of the story, but you know, Jean was. As like an emergency replacement for Mario Neil when there was a sag strike and Mario Neal is a member of sag after and couldn't be on air talent. And they knew gene a little bit. He was a salesman at the old WTC N channel eleven studios. And you know, we had a great, you know personality, and he was emergency fill in. And I mean was was a natural right? From the start. When when you when gene was giving you tips and you're working with him. What are some of the specific things that that you remember him helping you with in terms of the pacing the timing not stealing the scene. But also looking like, you're listening, which is such an art. Well, a line of it was more. Remember when your when when the talent is talking don't forget that you need to look at the camera. And even he had said when guys are really good talkers, let them talk. When guys aren't so good. You're going to need to to help them. And it he it it really wasn't so much trying to shape me. But he would say, you know, what on an interview remember when this happened? Now, you kind of did this and think about how better it might have been if you had done that. So it it it wasn't from a critical standpoint. And then really the the I mean, I I knew it myself, and as you said Jean was larger than life and really. The interviews when gene was doing it became both about the wrestlers. He was interviewing and himself. And when he suddenly left the best advice, I got came from blackjack Lanza and Jackson. Look, you you're following, gene. But don't be try and be, gene. You've gotta be yourself. And do it the way you would do it. And I had a chance and talked at length with gene with blackjack with Bobby with Nick. And I knew that I didn't have the. It wasn't my personality to over involve myself the way gene, did and kinda really took the interview process to to a whole new level. And I kind of made up my mind that especially with great talkers like Nick, and Bobby and the crusher that once they got going. Unless they needed me to interject. I I was going to just let them go that I always kind of had the philosophy when I took over that I needed to make it all about the talent. And my I guess way of trying to differentiate myself a little bit from gene was to be totally serious focused. And again, this was during the the K fehb era to make it as legitimate and serious as I could. And in fact, you know, eventually, I kinda got away from it. But I use the philosophy weighed that when especially the big name talent would kind of get on a roll. Unless they would say something really over the top one way or another. I purposely tried to to not react because I knew and rightfully so when I would watch interviews with, gene. I'm sure you did. And the fans did you would watch gene as much as you did the wrestlers. So I tried to purposely not react as much to make sure the viewer kept their focus on the wrestler. Remember if you want an anti experience where the show just starts and flows without interruption. You can become a VIP member. Tons of perks come with VIP membership with over thirty years of archives of over fifteen hundred back issues of the person torch weekly newsletter or podcast archives. Dating back to late two thousand four when we started doing wrestling podcasting hundreds of retro radio shows from the nineteen ninety s including my KFI AM show with over one hundred episodes. Of live calls. Journalists. Roundtables interviews, breaking news and more. 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I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way. Protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lack your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans. Call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. License and all fifty states MLS number thirty thirty additional conditions are exclusions apply. What you're saying in? And it doesn't come across this way. But it couldn't a different context come across his criticism of gene for not at all. And I don't want anybody to think that it was just I realized that I could never be, gene. And would could never be as good as gene in in in his you know, reactions and and the way he could, you know, pop in an instant, and I didn't want to I guess for for lack of anything come across as kind of a poor man's, gene. So. It. It's Inouye a criticism. I if anything it would be almost self directed. I just knew I could not be or I don't know that anybody ever could be as good as Jean was in the way, gene to the interviews to create kind of create a little bit of my own persona. I just needed a differ different overall philosophy as to how I was going to do it. But it it's in no way. I I mean Jean. Yeah. I had to borrow the phrase we used to use with Bret Hart. You know, gene, the best. There was in the best there ever will be. Yes in and that's the recognition that you had as chiens personality, and charisma and timing was in a category unto itself and the rules. You described for yourself are I think the? The default. Rules should be the default rules for any interviewer and we've seen interviewers overreact two moments. You know, you know, Sean Mooney did a lot of interviews with WB off with a lot of over the top characters. And you know, it's like you have to be the straight, man. And let them be you you being the straight man allows them to stand out more. And regardless of you know, you said the cafe Barra I think it is. I didn't think wrestling one hundred percent real watching you. So I think it's overblown people who are younger than us thinking everybody who watched in the mid eighties or early eighties or whatever thought wrestling was real we didn't. But when we watch wrestling, they made us believe it was real. And I think that rule should apply today despite the accessibility of information. I agree with you completely and one sometimes people will stop me or I'll get into a conversation. I tried. I I mean, you didn't talk about it. But most people were like, you even back in the K fehb era that this isn't real. But even you didn't know how much was real and how much wasn't real. And I tried to approach it. It's like if you go to a movie, and certainly the legions of fans to the Star Wars franchise when they walk in and sit down in the theater, they know it's not real. But for the two or two and a half hours. They wanna be so immersed in it that they believe for that timeframe, it's real or I guess more. So. Don't think about the fact that it's not real. And that's how I kinda like and my job is during the time. You're watching my portion whether it's was play by play or interviews. I wanted the viewer not to think about the fact that might not be real. Exactly. And gene and his approach which was different. Also didn't do anything to make it not seem real. But he had that he was in that that that special place that no other interviewer that I can think of occupied which was being able to be a personality, and and knowing it and not holding back on it. But also knowing where that line was I would say he was more artful and his peak years just like Bobby Heenan were in the Awa, and I actually thought in the WF in this is this is a Vince McMahon tone of the era. Not mean, gene, you know, deciding or losing his his sweet spot that he found in the Awa. But I think that that genes peak worked where he found that sweet spot to be a personality without taking away from the the wrestler's was rare territory that fewer interviewers have had. And it was in the Awa that he occupied it. I would agree on both counts. And part of it being behind the scenes, I think was a product of Verne ganja knowing how good gene was and pretty much left him alone to to do it as only he could. And I think as what you are alluding to Wade may have happened. Once he went to the WWF back, at least in those days Vincent was involved in every aspect, and and part of what you are talking about may have occurred because Vince still wanted it done a certain way. And it like in in any aspect of any job. If you would normally do all your way and suddenly your boss says, well, yeah, that's fine. But I also want you to do it this way, you kind of, you know, lose some of your focus in that you have to be focused on not only your way. But how someone else wants it to be? Well, I wanna go back today to be and then move forward to WBF afterwards with or explore that in a little more detail on when when you were observing gene we saw what was honor. What was offer a paint a picture for for me in the listeners of did? Gene, just sorta shut down and and sit on a chair and wait for the next. You know, when they take a break, for instance, or in between interviews, if you're waiting for a wrestler or was he gregarious and engaging or was he looking at notes or asking a lot of questions like paint, a picture of what that kind of a promo day or interview day was like, oh, June was more towards the gregarious interacting, you know, with all the wrestlers telling stories and laughing, but at the same time understand there wasn't a lot of that downtime because you know, market specific there were a lot of. Interviews that that had to get done. You know, nowadays, the they don't really do the stand-up interviews anymore. But even the ones they do our national where. Far more. So in fact, I think my record in WWF was one day at the mental and we did a hundred and eleven interviews. But with the Awa, you know, you still had to separate interviews for the the twin cities for lacrosse for Claire for Winnipeg for Chicago for Milwaukee for Denver for Salt Lake. So there was a lot of interviews. So it wasn't like you do an interview. And then have ten minutes to kind of be s with everybody. You know, you do an interview. And it was kinda like what's next, you know? Okay. Well, you know, what's the date? What's the card, and you wanna get right to the next interview? So there wasn't a whole lot of downtime. We generally would start at like nine in the morning when I came on board. We were doing them out at deal channel nine campus piece studios would doesn't exist anymore. And then we'd go about Levin, forty five or noon, and then everybody would kinda go there several ways for lunch, and then we'd come back at one thirty. And and started doing him again. And on Jill they got done. So there it was he was gregarious interacted with everyone, but everyone was pretty much focused on the on the next interview because the bottom line for the production people for studio time for the talent, everyone, the sooner we got done, the sooner everybody, get go home. So there wasn't a it was more focused than downtime. Helps he has. So come and talk about the dynamic with, gene. And the wrestlers he worked with a lot of people like think people aren't about David Letterman a Paul for like never talked off air their interaction was key red lights on cameras rolling. They seem like best friends, but keep it fresh. They didn't talk different circumstance in wrestling interviews, obviously like Louis, but how many one hundred and eighty degrees. Yes, we'll talk about gene in the wrestlers at work. And when they would clock out like what how how much was gene one of the boys. So to speak. Every bit of you know, he'd been there was accepted, and you know, down the road. So was I, but it it it just takes a while. I guess to to pay your dues, you know, earn your bones and because Jean had been there for quite a while on established himself. I mean, he was very much one of the boys. There was no, you know, K fading. You know, anything like that there? There was some of that when I first started but gradually after you know, gene left. I think all the guys knew I was there to make them look as good as could be, you know, there were time sometimes when at least with maybe lesser talent, gene. Gene, not purpose fully, but just gene being gene would almost overshadow. Arrest around interview. And that was never my way. So, you know, after a while I was accepted as one of the boys as well. Did did wrestlers seek trying to think how to how to phrase because I haven't idea in my head like seek jeans endorsement or approval on or off air in any way. Like where I mean it again, I'll use use a data talk show reference. Johnny Carson calling a comedian over to the desk. After the stand up was like this big endorsement was there anything with gene just did what I'm trying to get as good wrestler seat compliments from him on their interviews, or did it sort of stopped short of that gene had his role. They was good at it. But there was still a hierarchy in that day, which is not your Justin announcer, but you're an announcer, and you do your job we do ours. And I'm not really looking for quote your approval. There wasn't a hierarchy in involving, gene. And I don't think the wrestlers would seek his approval because unlike, you know, your reference to the tonight show with Johnny Carson, gene. Or I didn't lay out the interviews or decide who's going to be interviewed that was pretty much done in the Awa by you know, Verne and Greg. So there was no real avenue whether for someone to try and ingratiate themselves to gene thinking, you know, I'll get more interviews this way. So the there there wasn't the opportunity for gene too. Because you know, he Jeff. Genuinely likes someone or at a great relationship away to create like more interview time because when when we would get there, the interviews were always laid out. Was there anybody that you remember gene, not having chemistry with either surprisingly only on air or even maybe tension off area? Like, okay, you know, gene's gonna hold back a little bit or or, you know, he's just going to play, you know, play it more straight. Let them say their thing and move on. Because obviously, gene had chemistry with hulk HOGAN and enjoy playing off of I think Jesse Ventura and only. It was Jesse that internet or you came up with the name mean, gene. Yes. A lot of people thought it was hulk. Yep. But it was Jesse that had named him mean Jean and then hall picked up the mantra. And I've all was. Yeah. Just in the back of my mind taking pride in, you know, moving forward, you know, I was the only one that really hope gave a name to that. I mean, people still fans still refer to me as as killer can when you poke just came up with on his own one day. And I think it was. That, you know, gene. Behold. I got along great with hawk and it was hawks way of kind of. I think putting me over. But almost the exact opposite of what you were trying to with wrestlers trying to gain approval from gene, it was almost by doing that hawk was giving me his stamp of approval. I think you know, the Awa in that era has a reputation for just being a great promo era. Great interview era, they weren't even promo wasn't aware that really was utilized back, then I don't think right. No, no, just a interview. Yeah. Exactly. And I liked that it is. It's describing what it not arrested with a microphone doing a model, which is kind of a promo. It's an interview, and there's someone holding a microphone and ask them questions and leading things in a certain direction and reacting and how much I mean, I it pre degrade promos predated, gene, being the main guy holding the microphone in asking the questions, but part of that era being so good. And I I would put it above any other any of your territory, and I know RIC flair and Jim porn et and a number of others in that dusty Rhodes in that era hat were just fantastic youth Roddy piper early Roddy piper in in Georgia. But I just think that Awa is unmatched. I think it's number one. And I do think gene was absolutely a part of that Indiana. Cardio. Neil loyalists will push back a little bit. But I think jeans chemistry and playing off the rest of it's like you did and being being meek or makes it there. He's actually wasn't make. But he knew physically he wasn't supposed to act like he he wanted to act like he was intimidated by the wrestlers, but he also held his ground in new when to push back because he no he knew the promoters had us back in restaurants. Did anything physically to him that there'd be held pay any? He again, it was another line that he walked wrestler. Intimidating, but he didn't just cower in the presence of the heels when they bullied him picked on him or maybe even slightly implied physical intimidation off. I think you're Ryan again hood what I talked about. He and then something you you can't really teach someone I mean, just gene just had that natural instinct about how to react to and and play on. Off, you know, Marty O'Neill for the most part was even before. I mean, I was aware of him and watched him, but. He was like the the ultimate straight, man. All Marty O'Neill to the wrestlers was like Ed McMahon to Johnny Carson once in a while and would kind of through what he said or his reactions almost be able to steal a scene or a bit from Johnny. But I don't think Mario Neil ever. Did that he was the absolute ultimate straight man to the wrestlers. And even though gene was smaller than most of the wrestlers mighty O'Neill was even much smaller yet. So I don't think there was ever that kind of. Intimidation threat, and I'm not saying that in with any bodily higher, but within the body of the interview because mighty O'Neill was just even smaller than gene. And I it's such a sweet spot to hit again that that I credit gene with which which is not acting like you're not intimidated. But and not being a, but also not losing your dignity and your respect and he found that spot. I mean, the road warriors pushed the limits in that regard. I mean, they were so physically intimidating, and when I think of you conducting interviews I mean, the road words, come to mind, first and foremost, how did what Jean taught you in observing gene help you with some of your some of the bigger names that you interview during your time in the Awa and the roadways on that list. And who else is? I'll be honest. I had been there a very short time and the road warriors. I don't know if they were in Japan. But when I first started they weren't around. So the the first interview I did with the road warriors. I was intimidated as hell I'm sorry. They were scary got and and more. So because I didn't know them. And you know, as as we got to know each other, and develop, you know, great friendships with, you know, Mike, and Joe and Paul it was different. But that's for the there was no tip that I interview if I looked intimidated and a little scared. It was because I was Yeah. I mean, that's that's the honest truth and later on. I mean, we we had some some great interviews together. But. The that's the only. Wrestlers or talent that I can point to where I was at the very beginning interviewing them intimidated because of their size and characters and the only other one that that comes to mind was I been in towards the end I loved interviewing the road warrior, the only person I hated to have to interview with STAN Hansen and not because of anything else. But when he would tore around that cowbell, I can't tell you how many times I caught it in the shins. Yeah. So the and I mean, not because he was trying to do it purposely. But that was every time it was like, oh, yeah. I'd say gotta wrestle interview standing. Oh, no. And he's got to the point. I was thinking I should really pick up some just cheap hockey shin guards. Put them on. And of course, it's excuse which he would make with a wry smile was while I I'm terribly nearsighted. I can't see we're not doing. So it's now now with your fault because I can't see and I love stand up hung out with them extents on watering. Watering forever. But everyone said I mean, he was the the the nicest. Yes guy, but boy that cowbell was. It was like oh God. That's dan. Yes. Yes. All right. So the news breaks within the Awa that genus, given his notice you mentioned that earlier, but. I mean, I know you talked about your feelings on that. What's the what's the mood and the company among the restaurants? Like, I I know a lot was going on at that at that time. And I I don't have memories of my head what where gene fell and the order of people Vince picked off, but it had it had to be a morale blow and in a kind of shake things up a little bit. Even though you have been easing into that role. It it was it was pretty sudden. And I think. People with in the Awa it was almost a foreshadowing it was. It's it's served notice in no uncertain terms that Vince was coming right for Verne. I in in terms of I think some of the talent secretly were happy because I think they thought you know, they could follow him too, much greener pastures. But I I think that was really, and again, I I can't tell you, you know, the order, but obviously, you know, after gene, Paul, Nick. I mean it. You could tell he was coming. And and it was going to be a to put it in. I guess business Hermes it was a hostile takeover. Yes. So it talk about the the tie between gene leaving. And then you going to the WWF and the circumstances of that. And I I to ask you to tell the mustache shaving story again. Well. Mine was a little different in that. Vince didn't hire me away. It was the final show. I did for the Awa was wrestle rock. And I just decided I was done, you know, for a a number of reasons. So I told Mike shields who was in, you know, the the producer that I was done. And that was it when I left the Metrodome that night. I I don't think I ever even went back to the office, and I had talked to someone it had been in the back of my mind before I got into television. I had been a district sales manager for Chrysler Corporation that dealer. Ships, but for the corporation, and I had made inroads about going back to work for Chrysler and Jack Lanza had already left. Jack was working with Vanson was an agent, and I think involved in a lot of other things and Jack, and I Jack also worked in the office in the Awa so Jack, and I had become very very close. And it was the Monday night after wrestle rock. Jack was on the road. But call me at home just to find out. You know, what happened what the finishes were? You know, how everything went, and we talked to not gonna tell them, you know, what had happened and he should want anything else. I said, well, I quit. And he started laughing in didn't believe me. And I said, no, I'm not. And he was like, you're kidding. I said, no. And he knew a lot of the back story. And he said, well, what are you going to do? And I said, well, I've already talked to him. You know, I think next week I'm gonna get together. And I think there's a good chance I'm gonna go back to work for Chrysler. And I said, well, what are you gonna talk to him next week? And he said, well, look hold. Let's talk when I get back to town. I'm coming in. I'll be back home tomorrow night, either Tuesday night or Wednesday night. I don't know if there was a day between and he called me. Night later late any goes, what are you doing for breakfast tomorrow? And I said nothing he said great. You know, you said we'll have breakfast. I'll I'll pick you up. And I I I can meet, you know, no, no, I'll pick you up. You said I'll pick you up six fifteen and we're a coat and tie. And I was like what are you not sixty? I'm not getting up ever anybody at six o'clock in the morning. And he said I'll be I'm picking up at six fifteen were a coat and tie because we're going to see Vince. And I started laughing. I said, Jack, I've seen you pull rib. You don't really think? I'm this dumb to any goes hang up you call north west airlines, ask them if there's not an already prepaid tickets for you on the seven twenty AM flight to the Guardia. And which I did there was a call Jack back, and he said, I told Vince you're available that you would quit and he wants to see you. So we did we flew out to LaGuardia. So a lot of people think that Vince that I was another one that Vince came in and just hired away it, and that's not the case, and we got out to York, and they had a limo for us to take us up to Stanford really got to the office. I kinda went through a bit of an interview process. I think if you will again, not knowing the order, but I met with like, Pat Patterson and Terry Garvin, George Scott, Ernie sculling after each one, they take me back out to the lobby then go in and see the next one was however the order it was like, I think everyone gave. Blessing and then went to the next higher up. And I think the last one I talked to who was Arne sculling they took me back out. And then a while I got called into Vinci's office met, Vince. And within the first, you know, two three minutes of of meeting him. You gotta said tell me about your mustache. And I was kinda like, you know, I well, it's bought my lip centered. I I don't know why you wanna know, you wanna know when I grew it and everything, and he came out and said, just so, you know, and I even think he said, despite gene, I hate facial hair. And and then he just stopped and looked at me. And I said, we'll I assume you're asking if everything else worked out if I would shave my moustache, and he said would you and I said, yeah, I would and that was it never said a word, and we talked for probably another hour. He just stopped looked at me for maybe thirty seconds openness top drawer, pulled out a razor and a can of shaving cream and said bathrooms right through that door. And I went in and shave my mustache and came back into his office. And he just looked at me. He said, you showed me something that's important. You showed me a backup? What you say? You'll start Saturday and shave your right off you should've seen his secretary. When I came out. Hour later, and suddenly, you know, the mustache I had gone. Oh, that's a Larry's. So so you get there and genius there. Talk about how gene seem the same or different. And how it was different with your dynamic at this point. And how often you guys cross pass? He he was from finding welcoming to me because it was understood. And I I think I'm gene had some things he needed to deal with where he was going to start taking time off, you know, and and just kinda do more some of the paper views and in the bigger shows. So the there was. I I'm certain that. I had was hired and would not have been hired gene hadn't been aware and was fine with it. So. Early on. I wouldn't I saw Jean it was always warm welcoming. But because they were so big and remember in those days, we often ran two and sometimes three Townsend night. So I would be working all the time. But in many instances, I might not even run into gene for like two weeks when when you did bump into, gene. I is it is it okay to say like white gene was cutting back with it was it was did he have other businesses going on? I was personal was burnt out. I think it was personal. And you know, might have been a little burn out. And that's just just speculation on my part because I know like I said one day, we did a hundred eleven interviews. That's chris. And I was doing those where Jeanne was also doing inter had cut back, but was still doing a number of interviews. And so I can only imagine what it was like that year and a half on his own. And you know with all the towns, you know, when we did interviews. It was always a different city. It was in in advance of a house show. So basically you were on a plane going somewhere every day. So, you know, I I it's it's I I think it was more either, you know, personal and or burnouts 'cause I mean that's forget anything else just flying in and you know, hotel airport airplane hotel arena hotel airpl- day after day. I mean that just wears on you on its own. And you know, again, I I knew my workload is when I got there and gene was still doing a fair amount. So I can only imagine what it must've been like a in the year and a half. He he and he was the only guy. Yeah. Oh, man. So how much interaction if any did you have with Jean going forward in the WWF given your time there, and then his his part time gate how much did you cross paths with him? Like, I said. Not that much who oftentimes it would just be. But yeah, it could sometimes be two or three weeks, and when we were in the same building or for a same show. There wasn't a lot of downtime or you could just kind of sit down, and and and Bs because when we would get to the arena, I would have this long list of things that that I had to get done and taped it as would he you know, in a different area with and there were separate production crews. So you know, I might be doing four or five six hours in one area, and he might be doing four or five in another area. So we will see each other. You know, greet each other talk for a little bit. Sometimes talk about what was going on in the Awa. But there wasn't a the there wasn't a lot of time for. Four or there wasn't a lot of interaction. But it wasn't any sort of, you know, personally, just you know. Okay. Hey, I we're gonna roll tame five minutes. Let's go. So we we could be under the same rough. But just working in in different areas of the building. And then it was like in anything else at the end of the night. Everybody wanted to either get somewhere and have a drink or get back to their room and get some sleep. When you look at work in W A W off television at that time. What was different about it for people who only saw him in the WWF and having, you know, didn't watch him in real time they'd up or on YouTube or WWE network. What what was remarkably if anything what was notably different about gene in the WWF that you picked up on because it was your vocation. Also. I think. The there was. Sometimes a little more. Over reaction to things, and I know it's a word used in. I'm trying to think of a different word, but. You know, I I just can't come up with it. But there was also a little bit more of a comedic tone to to some of the things it it's not the word. I I would like to use way. But I just can't come up with any anything that was analogous that. There would be times where you would see an interview, and you would kind of laugh, and I mean, not, you know, laugh with not app make that clear, but in the Awa that didn't occur with was sell tickets get the wrestler over and if it happened to be entertaining. Which of course, it always was and I would argue more. So that was a side effect of doing things the right way. And I think in. This applies just WWF in general and Vince McMahon's approach to to the pro wrestling product that a lot of people crave alternatives to which is Vince thinks the entertainment isn't the selling of fights and getting wrestlers over in sports like athlete. I wanna win a fight way. It's let's amplify the quirky aspects of their personality and have the interviewer Hamid up more. I think the best way, and I agree. The best way to praise it in the Awa. It was all about the house show. And the hour of all star. Wrestling was viewed its only purpose was to sell tickets for the house show. I mean back when gene was air. When I was there. You know, there wasn't the secondary merchandising either. It was strictly solely about selling tickets. And when I got to the WWF when gene ahead of me, even then Vince it was about not only selling tickets, but it was also about producing an entertaining television show. That was never I don't think. Process in the Awa. But in the WWF, it was about selling tickets building up the characters that getting to the point where even if you weren't a wrestling fan. You wanted to come see some of these larger than life personalities in in person. But it was also about creating an entertaining hour of television. Not unlike a sitcom or a drama, and I think that's where a lot of the overreaction, and and you know, comedic turn came into place because not only did Vince want the wrestling and the characters and everything else he was also focused on producing entertaining television. How about you to actually have you gene in subsequent years? Did you ever have lunch with him again or bump into him at a at a hall of fame or a ceremony or India show? Anything about town. I I would bump into him. You know, someone he was back in Minnesota sometime. And it was you know, it was always very, warm and great. I mean, I like Jean. I mean, it's I put on Facebook. I I was just so sad to learn. But I was aware he was battling health issues. I mean, he had had three kidney transplants, and I had heard at some appearance where he had been in a wheelchair. So I knew he was battling health issues. But. I never ever had any sort of interaction with Jeanne be, you know, Awa WWF post WWF. This was not, you know, warm and sincere. Gene was a great guy. Whether it was that, you know, some charity thing or event or just happenstance. You know, you'd always greet me. We talk you know, how you doing? What are you up to? So I you know, I didn't see him all that much. I didn't you know, hang out with him. It we never like said. Hey, let's go have lunch. But it was always great when we had a chance to whether it was some event that brought us together or just you know, happen stance. You know being in town. So I'll close with this. Is there a story about gene, probably from the Awa days that my questioning? Thing didn't bring out of you. That didn't get brought up that helps paint a picture of who he was for people who who wanna know more about them or just want to have a funny story to tell others. Nothing comes to mind, but. Gene was. In real life. Gene was probably closer to the gene people saw on TV. Then most people would have thought if that makes sense. Absolutely. Yeah. And the the the the one thing his passing brought to mind. In fact, I I found out I got a text from from someone I think, you know, ad Hellier, you know, from steel domain wrestling, you know, here here in the twin cities he had sent me a tax, and he said, you know, anything about gene Oakland passing away. And you know, I hadn't been on social media. But my phone went off with a tax. Then it was like, you know, I just sent them back. No, I I haven't heard anything as you know, for real. And then I went on social media and saw that the people posting it that it was true. And then I add night texted, you know, a couple of times, and, you know, I know Ed interactive with, gene. I mean, it, you know, I mean what an amazing job. Ed does. I mean, steel domain as an independent here in the twin cities now in its twentieth year. But the one thing, you know, when we were texting back, and I kind of realized that looking at a lot of the pictures that people have sent me over the years. And through social media that the majority of the wrestling pictures, I have in a lot of them. I'm the only one still alive. Wow. Yeah. I mean, if you think, you know, with gene and Kurt Roddy piper. The macho man Nick bond clinical Bobby Heenan crusher mad dog. I mean, literally, you know, Andrei, I look at the pictures bruiser Brody. I look at a lot of Jerry Blackwell a lot of the pictures. I have the, you know, buddy Roberts Terry Gordy hawk. It was like I need only one still left alive in these as I texted at L. Your was like, you know, maybe I'd better stop buying green bananas main and a lot of it. You know, just the the wear and tear the business took, but it was. I mean, it was. Gene was just still like hall back in the the glory days. I guess you can call it of where it was still, you know, wrestle more wrestling than than sports entertainment was. Was just. One of the the huge bigger than life characters. And you know, I I'm thinking back really from that time hawk is really the only larger than life one still with us. Well on that Wade, we're we're getting old. But on that somber note, Ken. I I saw Eddie Sharkey edit Hellier actually at the x t show a few weekends back. And and he was like, yeah. Yeah. Wait, I'm I'm going to go back in the locker room. But everybody, I know is dead. And I'll probably be next. It was good seeing you. Great, eddie. Thanks. But you know, what? I mean. You know, when you when you reminisce, and again, you know, from from Eddie's career when you reminisce about your time, you know, in the business in the heyday. A lot of your friends are just are no longer here. And you know, you and and the problem is everybody gets scattered. So you just don't get a chance to to see them that often. Yeah. So it's it's it's a yeah. I guess thinking back, and maybe they get a little more uplifting. Jeez. The one thing where I think about, gene. And in his time in my time. Everything we did we we didn't hers anything, it would be like, you know. I, you know, you got anything you wanna do know off. All you you. Just winged it and when you watch. So much a certainly, you know, WWF WWE now it it's so precise. Yeah. And scripted. That. Some of the the well, they don't really do interviews per se anymore. But even you know, what they do in the ring, you can tell it it. It's so scripted that a lot of the passion is out of it. Where talent is is trying so hard to remember what they're supposed to say. When they're supposed to say at how they're supposed to say it, and I think that's one of the reasons that you don't see the real wire jer than life characters are merging anymore. WWE? Certainly has you know, they're great stars. But do any of them really reach the the the status of a whole Cogan or a Roddy Roddy piper or macho man, Randy savage or George. The animal or even in a different way. But the the status of a of a Bobby Heenan or crusher or the Nick back winkle because they were allowed to create an embrace their and develop their own characters. And now, you know, I think it's more talent writers that are telling people this is I we wanna done I think pro wrestling at its best and worst is when it's more improv than scripted and WWE and Vincent man, specifically have chosen to not risk the bad. Even if it's a small slice of compared to two promising at it's best to have more control environment, and you know, the live TV aspect of it and worrying about sponsors network executives and all that they've made that calculated decision, but that lack of authenticity. Is a loss for a wrestling fan. And I think fans crave a sense that the rest, which are watching our. Yes, an amplified slice of who they really are. But nevertheless, part of who they really are. And and that that is what the the nineteen eighty s interview era was. Dates to. But gene, especially when I did interviews and when Jean did interviews back them away. The only thing we had. Prior to the taping. The interview we knew the date the town, and what the match was, you know, were I would open it up, you know, in in hit those things, and then we just wind it. I mean there, you know, there would always be an agent and sometimes it didn't go as well. And we might redo it. But it was never rehearsed. Yeah, it was always just off the top. Sometimes, you know. I would also do you have anything special? They might say, you know, what asked me about this or you know, on a hit this or that. But we just waiting it. Just how did you redo it very seldom like on? Fifty or one out of ten. For I would say, maybe overall. Maybe one out of you know, fifteen to two twenty and a lotta times. Gene or myself would make the call in. We would get on the interview. And I would think you know, we can do better or you know, I do a better job of bringing out the the intensity or it wasn't like the the agent. They're saying you gotta redo that a lot of times we would do one. And I would look at the talent. If I didn't feel I if I didn't think we sold a lot of tickets in that interview or or develop whatever we were trying to I would look at the talent say, you know, what you wanna do that one again. And then, you know, usually, they would say, yeah, you know, so as, you know, somewhere between one out of fifteen or twenty I mean, it was redoing an interview was far more the exception rather than the rule. Well, Kenya followed the script that I gave you for this podcast. Very well, it was only. It is only our third take the first two hours. I wasn't happy with. But I really appreciate you sticking with me here on the third hour and following the script nicely. I think it made for a better podcast. You are so bad. A great catching up with you. Thank you so much. I just thoroughly enjoyed this. And I'm sure the listeners will to getting a better idea of who was and in such what I wanted to emphasize into because there's just such as I said at the top so many people remember him from a time when I don't think he was at his peak. He was people have an affection for him in fond memories. And all that. But he was so it's like Bobby Heenan in data. But he was so good in the Awa and you as a person who had to step into his shoes where we're great at conveying. What may gene unique in the position that he was in? I like I say in terms of talent, you know, behind the mic. I don't think whatever direction wrestling and ends up going to me in terms of people. I worked with more as an announcer type not talking about wrestlers. I don't think there will ever be another gorilla monsoon, Bobby Heenan or gene, Oakland. I just don't think there ever will be. Yeah. Yeah. Well, put can I thank you so much. I expect we will talk again, and hopefully it's under positive circumstance. Heck this was positive. Remember, somebody who lived at well into his seventies and lived a rich life and did something he loved this positive thing to to give time and attention to that go away with my pleasure. My friend anytime. Thanks cats. Hey, if you'd like to hear this show without ads and plugs, interrupting there's one thing you can do right now to make that happen. And that is become a POW torch VIP member, you got about a dozen other podcast throughout the week that I host that our VIP exclusive, and you get the way Keller potions and podcasts during the week with the ads and plugs. Removed all on a separate feed exclusively for VIP members. Plus tons of other podcasts that are VIP exclusive access to our full archives of podcast dating back to two thousand four which includes post pay per view roundtables dating back to two thousand four also access to our full archives. 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Episode 153: John Bradshaw Layfield

Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard

2:55:15 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 153: John Bradshaw Layfield

"Okay. So today's episode of something wrestle is brought to you by star cast on client. What are you waiting for? This is all anybody's talking about nine only. Do you get the roast of RIC flair are you can make? But you get tons of other gray panels, Cody and the young buck sitting down to talk about how in the world all elite wrestling came to be a thing. Of course, it's the last live something to wrestle. What about Tony shivani sitting down with staying? What about Shawn moody sitting down with Brad Hart, and Tom mcgee's there never know what they might be talked about. We just ask the Booker T show. We've got a tash show is still two dozen shows at Caesars and you can enjoy him. All right now live on demand and glorious HD for the low low price of fifty nine bucks. Just go to stark asked on fight dot com. And you'll pick it up. There's two shows going almost all weekend across four days. So if you don't like what's on one St. is flip over to the other stage. And if you can join us in person, why wouldn't you into a who's who of professional wrestling? And you. Wanna miss it star cast dot com for star cast on fight dot com. And don't forget this to ours. And stark asked us like star Cade and fight as F not star cast on five dot com. That's not a. There's no box of gaming. Don't deal in rumor. There. I will there. Thanks here. You. It's gone red Thompson, you're listening to wrestle with Bruce. Bruce what's going on, man? How are you? Well, and this week we'd like to bring you the best. Oh my gosh. You know, we wanted to be true to our commitment that we were going to deliver the best possible. Sound quality Bruce back in his home studio this week as so no curveball this week. We were hoping to bring JBL last week schedule. Just didn't work it self out. So a little help from our friends, Maxine put together a best of featuring your favorite wrestler, Antonis triple h and Tony shivani, basically bagged for job and shit on you for two hours. Your thoughts. Well, that's got to Tony Shamanee's life. He does is it Tony wakes up in the morning and likes to try and take shit on me because well, he has nothing else to do with his life in general and beg for jobs. So that's kind of what he does. He's in his natural habitat. But we have a lot of good feedback. It's our first best of says Houston was in a flood outside of that. We've been able to deliver brand new content to you for every week for nearly three years now. So we're pretty proud of that. And we are back in the saddle again this week with the one and only J B L, and we've been I have wanted to talk about this for a long time before we get started. If you've ever stopped at a railway crossing in the signals or flashing, and you don't see the train or it looks like it's moving slow, and you're thinking, maybe get across the tracks before the train comes about this and twenty eighteen alone two hundred and seventy people were killed at railroad crossings two hundred and seventy stop trains can't. And we're not gonna stop the train here. We're gonna keep it going for Mr John branch Shaw lay field, of course in real life. He's John Charles leafy will for November twenty nine nineteen sixty six and Sweetwater, Texas, which the only time I've ever even heard of Sweetwater Texas was berry Wyndham kind of ironic that later that would become one of his taxing partners with the new Blackjacks. But even John along, Tom, I guess, we should just tell everybody in the air of the interest of full disclosure you, and I have become pretty good friends with John you much longer than you guys have been in business for a long time and worked together and starts new businesses together and everything in between. When did you first meet, John, I'm mid John? The first time actually face to face when he came in to Bethlehem Pennsylvania for trial, and he'd been working in Germany coming into. The states, and he was looking for a job and called and said, why don't you come on in when you come into the states and stop by television taping? And let's take a look at you like to look to meet you we brought him in and the rest is they say is history. John was in high school got in football. And once I got into college, he not only played and Abilene Christian university, but also coached at trinity valley community college, and it's a party JBL story that I don't think it's talked about a lot at Abilene. He was a two year starter on the offense of line and named first team all Lone Star conference as a junior and senior then he entered the NFL draft. He didn't get drafted. But it did sign with the Los Angeles Raiders has an undrafted free agent. And he got released before the nineteen ninety season started after the NFL dream didn't work out. He went to the world league of American football. He started ten. In games in nineteen ninety one for the San Antonio routers and the current Dallas Cowboys coach Jason Garrett was actually the quarterback of that team. And from there he signed to hang up the cleats and get into pro wrestling, so football, certainly is I love conversation with John about wa- football didn't work out because he wasn't any good. Okay. No, his knees. And he his knee was bad. I think he had to have surgery early on a loved football and John played football. His whole life is dream was to be a professional football player. But his niece just weren't holding up and coaches were like, John, you know, it's gonna be a career of knee surgeries and not being able to hold up. John went look for different profession. Any found professional wrestling, which is sort of interesting, and I think he wound up actually being trained by always got a pretty famous trainer, and I wouldn't have put I wouldn't have connected the dots with him being from Texas. Tell everybody about it. Well, is first trainer was actually Brad Rangan 's and Brad Reagan's limpet trainer. And one of the toughest son bitches you ever want to meet on the face of the earth and Brad trained guys up in Minnesota. Brad was one of those just real tough guys under the tutelage of Vern ganja. When John started in the business. He didn't know where else to go. Someone told him. Hey Brad rankings, and he went up and learn from Brad and then got thrown from the pan. Wait, no from the whatever into the end of the pan pretty damn quick. He's thrown right into the fire fire. There you go. So after training starts wrestling with the GW f global wrestling federation, which we've talked about here on the show available now in the archives, something wrestle dot com. And at the time global is working out of sport Oriel endows, which is obviously a world famous arena for world class championship wrestling, and John actually recently posted video of himself standing out in front of where the sport a Torian used to be did you ever when you were doing global stuff with the story as well? Absolutely. And it was just as frigging hot in disgusting. Then as it was when John started. He starts working as John Hawke. And we talked about Barry Windham earlier. He is the storyline cousin of berries here. Similar to how Rick flair. Guess was the storyline cousin of the Andersons in the Crockett promotion he goes on to win the tag titles with Bobby Duncan junior and black bar respectively. Then it hits the Indies for a couple of years. Any wrestles everywhere from Japan, Mexico, Germany, Austria, and eventually he starts to get some looks JBL joined the interview a in nineteen ninety four and fatal before before you go on a hate dinner rupture Conrad, but there's a there's a very good untold story about John's first couple of weeks in the wrestling business in GW F because they had a substitution. And they needed someone in the main event work with gentleman by the name of I believe it was rod price at the time and Rodwin out. And they said, listen if the kids shits. Just take it home pretty quick and and beat him. But if you get some time out to get some time out of it. So John went out and he worked a match John was able to follow rod price through this match. And they had a decent match for guy who had only been working for two weeks. Well with John got back. There was someone there going to Japan and booking Japan and said, hey, kid you ever been to Japan? Do you want to go to Japan and Johnson? Hell, yeah. New, sir. And they booked him on a tour almost immediately to go to Japan, unknown. While Johns there he's on tour with Bob Morton junior who Bob looks adamant and John's getting the shit kicked out of him by the Japanese taken advantage of him. And the Japanese talent, you know, obviously, they don't speak English. John doesn't speak Japanese. So it's a tough communication situation there, but by Morton John's favorite stories, Bob. Looks emphasis how long you been roseland. Their kid Johnson's two weeks is not how long you been on tour. How long you've been restless two weeks and Orton wishes God damn hill. You get over here two weeks on and yet two weeks in the business. John had himself Japanese tour from the sport orient, Dallas. Unbelievable. There's a famous story that will let John till one day. Maybe on a bonus. Upside about one of his situations he had in Mexico too. Which is kind of fun with another wrestling personality that people would recognize anyway, he joins the briefly in nineteen Ninety-four. And defeats the legendary Kevin von Erich in January ninety four to win the individual North American title later losing it to Greg Valentine. But let's fast forward nineteen Ninety-six. He finally makes his way to the WWF Melrose reporting at the beginning of January ninety six John Hall. Gotta try out with uncles Zab for Dutchman tale as manager and put over savvy Vega hall got good. He'll heat for a guy who had never appeared on television. Now, I guess we should mention here. John definitely has the look here is tall, dude. Big guy. Got the long hair Vince had to be named with him just based on size and presentational. On. Definitely love the size and John was in his own way. John was a huge fan growing up of STAN Hansen. So John tried to emulate STAN Hansen as much as he possibly could. And did the. Hook them horns sign and all the same shit through the Larry at same whole nine yards. So John was coming in. I think he was trying to emulate stand so much that it even get come to Vinci's attention that God damn it. I I don't want STAN Hansen off this big burly Texan, but he was big. He was full of personality. He could move, and he just was impressive looking so yeah, I impress. She was a good one. Okay. I'm gonna put the name Justin hawk Bradshaw. Because that's the way debuted on TV at the end of January. He got a win over Bob. Holly in this first match on raw, but Justin hawk Bradshaw. Or is that come from? Well, it was John Hough before. So we took the first part of it. And I think actually I came up with it in Bradshaw just sounded like a. I don't know sounded like a tough, Texas name Bradshaw. Okay. A friend of mine named buddy Sullivan. He worked at a plant the power plant here in town in every time that I would call out to the plant kitsch, buddy. There was guy by the name of Bradshaw that answered the phone, and he would add you'd call out there. He'll bradshaw. And that's just what I thought of when I looked John les field was Bradshaw because he had big mouth big lab techs, and that was the name that just popped outta my head just sounded Texan to me the name John Hawke, his original independent name. Do you think there is an influence from the nineteen eighty-seven movie over the top or so Vesta loan played Lincoln hawk? I wouldn't be surprised at all Bradshaw of look like hawk. Nasty bird with good eyesight lots of rumor and innuendo about John that we're going to get into. But when he first comes into the room or into the scene he's in the locker room. He's been a bunch of locker rooms for football. And now all over the country the fit in pretty well. Yes ours. I remember financial well need just one of the boys. No, no, real issues. Just another guy joining the tour. Yes, we should mention the early incarnation of this gimmick that is doing after he would win a mass. He would brand the J B symbol on them. Which is kinda fun. He also has been on record as saying I didn't think I'd be there very long. I really thought it'd be there two or three years that's about all people were around for at that time. They a lot of people come in and leave a lot. And I figured I'd just be there two or three years and then on find my way back Japan, maybe go back to college even be a coach somewhere. But I never imagined. I'd be there fifteen years or whatever it was that was completely unexpected to be there that long I'm fascinated by the senate's. I thought I'd be there two or three years, and he's clear that that was at least from his perception. Like, the average lifespan of a wrestler in the WWF. And we'll see these stats like the average life of a running back in the NFL not his his actual life. But it was ruin his career. And it's a finite amount of time did you ever perceive the WWF, especially in this era. We'll call it mid nineties as being a place you come for two or three years and then move on down the road. Traditionally it was always that way. Especially with the heels they would come in bring a top heel in put him on top take him around the horn. They'd be Jay strongbow one time. Did they would go around the loop with Bruno? Then they go back around the loop with Jay strongbow, strong get his win back, then you'd go. One more time around the loop. Putting over the the mid card. Baby faces in the need be gone in. Usually that would last two three years three years if you could milk some extra matches with Bruno in there. So. For a he'll. Yeah. That was normal life expectancy things were changing though. But a three year run would would have been a hell of a run back in the day. I guess we should mention his part of the ninety six king of the ring. He loses Jake Roberts in the first round superstars. It is sort of interesting to me that here's this big young guy trying to get over. And haven't Jake Roberts beat him. When Jake Roberts is really on the senior tour at this point. Did you just not see a big upside and him or were you just really really more focused on telling the Jake story, it that point we were more focused on telling the Jake story, and John was they're paying dues. We were really still trying to figure out what the hell we had at that point. So John was new and Jake we had a story for. On August nineteenth. He does a dark match in wheeling West Virginia on raw where the stalker would be Justin Bradshaw in a battle of future partners and Sweetwater Texas residents. Of course, the stalker is berry Wyndham. Yeah. The stalker God. Damn right stalker. Yeah. Stocks you. Camouflage. You can't see oh goddess Stocker you look in that he looked down in in in in the pond. Are you looking at him or looking at you? Okay. Stocker? Okay. After that, he starts working the house shut loop with sev- and he's losing to the Bushwacker in most matches. This is where we are. He makes us pay per view debut at mind games, which is a phenomenal show with an incredible main event September twenty second nineteen Ninety-six. Philadelphia is going to take on savvy Vega in a Caribbean strap match where was the Caribbean strap match invented Bruce Caribbea mega was in vain, invented the resting history. While you do so thank you. So here's the reason we're mentioning this in particular, seven minutes. Nine seconds Vega gets the win. It's a star in a quarter. But this is the match where something kind of interesting happened. We've touched on this before it's what w is really the story that we're trying to tell. Even say the match it self was mainly backdrop for the W angle Sandman dreamer and Paul Heyman. Where ringside insane man through his beer at Vega smashes the beer can on his head and juiced lit a cigarette. While security led all three off off camera, but very notably. The law fans Sanjay Marin Haymond or calling attention to themselves at ringside up to the point of the show and Heyman Kip giving the finger to McMahon and McMahon would give him dirty. Looks back. A lot of people live off this was all shoot. And after the match they did a faraway shot of the new razor in diesel attacking Vega in the locker room after the match. Just gives you a frame of reference for where we are. We've got hey, it's real it's W O fake racer in diesel. It's an interesting time in the WWF, but you do to work shoot angle here. And you've told us your conversation with Briscoe backstage where he was not smartened up, and you were and he was a little funded by that. But from a. The boys you're talking to Savi Vega. You're talking to Justin hawk Bradshaw. You gotta lay out. Hey, guys. Here's what's going to happen. What did they know? What didn't they know all the they didn't know shit, and I talked savvy, and I told savvy that said look guys out there they want you to pay attention to. I don't give a fuck. What happens if anything happens? I don't give up. What happens do not under any circumstances? Let that big fucking cowboy loose from that Caribbean strap match from that Caribbean strapless you hold onto that big son of a bitch. And he is not to get involved in anything that could potentially happen out there because that's exactly what they fucking want. So I'm counting on you to be the professional and to keep him away. And if that fucking San man or some. God damn beer your face. Then you fuck you tell him to pull you out, and you guys get over to the other side of the fucking ring. And salvio got it. He understood and that was it. That was all I told them. So I'm sure Savi smarten Jonah to you know. Hey, big, boy, they're doing something there. And we'll just get on the other side of the ring if anything happens exactly what they did. But the the worst was undertaker undertake who was pissed off because the guys in the back ready to come out and stop hole and some CW, folks. Akkad have been ugly. After this. Justin starts putting over stalker. Holly on the house show loops and it sort of fizzles out and then in February of ninety seven we see Bradshaw. Repackaged? Now, he's teamed with Barry Windham to form the new Blackjacks. Of course, the original Blackjacks were Berry's father blackjack mulligan, an ear favorite bike Zach Lanza where did this idea for the new Blackjacks come from. I gotta tell you as a fan. I thought this was an awesome gimmick. Awesome. Love. And I thought the could have done more than they did. Why didn't they? I did too. It all started his most things do with with a comment. Jack Lanza was Al somewhere and John was out. They were together. And someone said Jack lands, oh is that your son? So Lance has started calling John it's my son here. Berries. They're obviously his dad, Bobby, Jack, mulligan and. Hm? That was a hell of a team the Blackjacks. What if we did something with black basically Blackjacks ride again? But this time, it's the kids, you know. And it's a blackjack Windham and blackjack Lanza that that was the that was the idea behind it from just comment. Somebody made Jack referring to lay field is a son. Hello, son. So by got they were working father and son, and we decided to make go they did their hair black and did those same mustaches and everything I thought it would have been huge. I really did. I thought they were great tag team and should have done a lot more. So the idea if you had to pinpoint comes from you or really came from Lanza DO telling the story in ribbon Bradshaw being his son. And we all heard of it and developed it from there and both of the guys were up for it. No pushback from either. No, all right, cool cut their hair did their hair black the mustaches out, no proper because they were friends berry, John were friends real life. They travelled together out on the roads. So they they were friends already. What's interesting to me, though. She just look at the sheer size of these fucking guys. I mean JBL is is is not a little dude. Especially back. Then, you know, he's probably what do you think? Six six. Yeah. And very Wyndham himself. Six five six six these two legitimately big dudes. And now they've got a cool bad ass looking. Gimmick, the sort of old school, and they're going to be asking. Here's so what do you do? You put them on the loop at the Godwin's and let the Godwin's beat the fuck out of them. Yeah. Hong farmers. Conrad hall former I just, you know, I'm just remember them. And I was like oh, man. These guys are awesome. These guys are going to be bad asses. And it was even fun to play with, you know, their characters in the video game or whatever. And then those into the fucking pig. Farmers Rodway doesn't go anywhere. Do you think? Vince, just didn't get it. Or is Russo getting some influence here and doesn't really dig. What there was about the time. That Rousseau is starting to get influence. Yes. But you know, everything does go back Vince McMahon. And and I think there was a lack confidence. Unfortunately, there was it times the lack of confidence in berry. And then there was the feeling that John was still a little green and needed to learn and just needed to step up. Is there also a concern that God damn it? That's to southern. That's wrassling. Nobody fucking cares about this shit. Because it does feel we've heard that there's like an anti southern bias at times, whether it's Kevin Donner. It's or it's Vance or whoever. And maybe because it wasn't their original idea. Maybe because blackjack was a bigger name in the mid Atlantic territory. Whatever was there some sort of anti southern or we didn't create this really hours. It's a rehash of. An old gimmick. Nobody knows whatever. No. Because the the Blackjacks did huge business in New York's Vince is very familiar with them and and loved love Lanza. He just I do think that the. The concept might have been a little too retro. But more than anything was berry was hampered with injuries. John was green and Russa didn't like southerners, but other than that fuck and haw, do you guess have people don't talk like that eight counter this? This was an actual quote, one time the people don't talk like that in the real world what southern accent? No, I don't say he hall southern accent. Did you do? S fucked up. Hey, so let me ask when you doing repackage gimmick. Like this somebody somewhere gives a ring to you know, Barry's dad. I mean, somebody calls Lanza and blackjack in real life. Ryan says, hey, we're thinking about doing this with these guys right or you fuck it. We're doing it. No. We we talked to lands about it and had berry talked to his dad about it. Jack was in in no condition at the time. And I don't think he really wanted to have anything to do with it. So we did the vignettes blackjack Lanza sitting around the campfire and talking about the glove, and the claw and what it meant to be a blackjack and things of that nature. So there was talk for about a half a second of blackjack Lanza managing them, but lands was like, no and ain't gonna happen. My days in front of the camera over and he squashed at pretty quick. Survivor series ninety seven has the new Blackjacks in it. They're going to be on the losing end with the head bangers Billy Gunn Jesse James in the Godwin's. It the elimination win got a dud and right after this. The black jacks what head to all Japan to compete in the real world haggling tournament in their first match on November fifteenth. They lose to Kentucky Bashi and Johnny ace. And the next day. The Blackjacks would get a win over STAN Hansen and Bobby dot com junior. And then they would lose two giant Kamala. And is early. Let's that then they beat high a Busa engines, Asians, Ocoee, who of course, we know as Khushi and then they lost to Johnny Smith and wolf hawk field. And then again, another losing effort. Gary all Brian Steve Williams, and then another loss to Omari and Honda and another loss to Massawa and Yama and then another loss. Against how in koala. So talk to me about how you guys go about sending over one of your tag teams to all Japan to basically, be enhancement talent. They wanted to go. And it was it was an opportunity to get them some work. We weren't using them a lot where we were. And there was this opportunity in those days. You know, you didn't have the internet as strong as it is. Now was like who is gonna know there wasn't video floating around of everything what was it going to hurt and it was going to give them a rest from TV? On our side. So go get a payday go work every night and get a payday. We didn't give shit whether they were winning or losing logs. They got paid. S interesting because the still very much time where wins and losses matter. You know, we're just a couple of days removed from the Montreal sphere job. And now they're over in. Nobody really cares. Wyndham is gonna wind up injured a lot during this run. So eventually the split up, and this is going to leave Bradshaw two's own devices. He's going to come in at number eight in the Royal rumble of ninety eight. He's eliminated by dude love before he can eliminate anybody. And in the next night on raw they have Jeff Jarrett meet him Jeff Jarrett at the time is the North American champion. And then it feels like there's a bit of a shift and we start seeing a little bit of a push for Bradshaw. He's getting wins on all the house shows against gold, and it shows up at no way out in nineteen ninety eight hour who's going to get his first shot and a singles title is going to challenge. Jeff Jarrett for the w eight North American title and actually gets a win. But Deke though, and he's presented a little differently said a blackjack Bradshaw. Justin hawk Br. Rancho he's just called Brad shell here. What did you think of the repackaging and making him a single star? How does that come to be? Well, Vince thought that obviously the tag team thing wasn't working out because of the various injuries that berry had throughout the years. And he was looking at the age is well and Saul that lay field had the upside he was young. He was hungry. His God, damned I get this big bastard. He was boisterous loud mouth Texan. God damn it. You know, how those people are Conrad. So he's like if I can get that guy to cut the promos, then we can make some money with him. And that was always the the hindrance sometimes to get the personality. That's in the locker room to come out in front of the camera and be able to deliver with the same passion that they have in the locker room sessile, Vince is trying to do here with Brad shy felt that he could come in. And really do something with John hair make him a single and hopefully be able to push him because people could get behind that big goddamn some bitch. Well, they did. Wrestlemania fifteen comes and we see Bradshaw involved in a tag team battle Royal is going to be teaming up with chains. Here. Of course, they don't win. He finds himself getting wins over Barry Windham. And a lot of the house shows in may in towards the end of may he starts to form a strange alliance with takemichi, no coup and tacos rivalry with kind tie. And we also see Bradshaw. Try to teach taco how to drive where the fuck does this come from Bruce you've seen talk Dr. Well, there you go. Character-building vignettes, and it was way more so than anything to kinda build taka and get people to enjoy talk lay field. Talk ahead, an interesting relationship, just in general and the backstage area where Bradshaw would have fun with talkin taco was would go back and forth with him. So took that relationship and tried to put it on camera and. Of course, you got to teach him how to dry, I it's the first thing. I think they drive on the wrong side of the road over there. Listen to you do get to the no way out arm. Sorry over the edge, pay per view may thirty first nineteen ninety eight we've got dick to go men's tau and show for Nakae beating Bradshaw and taka in handicap match, and the partnership doesn't last long Bradshaw finds himself working singles again, and let's fast forward. We've talked about this briefly before a long ago, Glenn. Okay. I got to give you a little sidebar here. I'm randy. You're you're familiar with the Kuzan Japan. Right. I mean, I've never met any of them. But yes, yes, you probably have. But you just don't know it. Well, as legend has it that when you use the screws up that they get like one of their fingers taken or or a joint so you can tell someone who's in the Uku. They don't have all their fingers or if they're like chopped off at a certain point. Well. I can't believe actually saying this loud because you always asked for ribs stories just different things. One day. I convinced entire locker room. That taka was in the Kuzan Japan. And they said there's no way because he's not missing any digits a sonata. No because he's a big star in Japan. They cut off his toes. So like if you ever you ever watch man, we'll talk it goes into take shower talk takes his shoes off. He's got a couple toes missin. And. You would not believe how many times people will try. And of course, a smart and taka up to it. So taco would sit there and K Fave, and he would make sure he would look around for you take his socks off. And then he would he would run in. And he would drop a towel on his on his feet. So no one could see it shit. So I think there are some people out there still today. Thank talk Michio Kaku was the Coosa the because he was a star that they cut its toes off instead of his fingers. I love you for that Bradshaw. Kind of fetch. You. There for me. Because I think they do Conrad. I've just saying now if you know if you're a star, you're the you can't take fingers because if you take your fingers every gun. No. But if you take Qatar. Oh. Still wear flip flops you're pretty proud of that when Archie. I was because it was one of those people would always look. Gene twenty-ninth on raw. We'll see branch y'all be Mark Canterbury about points in the brawl for all tournament. And during this red shawl starts to form a partnership with the legendary Terry Faulk before we talk about funk talk to me about brawl for all. What did Bradshaw? Think of this. Stupid shit he'd ever heard. But you know, it is the story goes a Russo created brawl thrall shut Brad shar up. So he thought was stupidly was happy to do. It was one of the first people I called the do it. Bratcher. So. He did got his ass knocked out. But he did it. Let's keep it moving. Let's talk about fully loaded. Nineteen ninety eight we've got for in to cold getting a win over Terry funk branch show, six minutes and fifty one seconds got a star in a quarter. We've covered this show in our archives. But how did this come to be Terry funk Bradshaw? This feels like something Bradshaw would've loved Bradshaw. Did love Terry loved it. Terry was looking at it. And it was a way to prolong Terry's career by being in a tag team versus a single and we brought Terry in you know, as chainsaw Charlie originally to do the kind of one off stuff with Mick Foley. Russa kept using them and figure they're both from Texas put them together. But Kerry love John John love, Terry. I thought they could have done a lot more to again, it was too. With same thing with wind. A man without Wyndham was a legend. But here Terry funk is a legend. I think that he could have helped bring Bradshaw along for a while. And then have the turn and really make Bradshaw because you would have felt sorry for Terry funk. It just feels like something that that he would have loved for sure. Let's keep it moving here. Let's talk about where we're going next. It's for all for all and brash house going to beat Mark marabout points. That's on August tenth the week later. He beats draws in the semis about points. But a week later August twenty four all comes to an end Bradshaw. Gets knocked out by Mark gun ever talked to Bradshaw about that. Yeah. You got knocked out. Was wrong with you a lot. But. No, you know, the only guy that didn't get knocked out by Bart was Bob, Holly and butterbean. But it was we everybody. I mean good God. Everybody was on John prior to the match like, okay. Just try and fall on your back. John. Doubt he hung in there. I mean, he he fought him. But he had his ass knocked the fuck out and. Yes. He did starts working house show loops and going over draws and Mark Miro and then at the breakdown pay per view on September twenty seven Bradshaw. It's a win over Vader, seven minutes and fifty five seconds. It's a no Hugh falls count anywhere match. And Meltzer, I guess we should mention Bradshaw does a promo beforehand and Meltzer would say another match with no crowd. He but damn it was stiff Bradshaw looks even less charismatic with his new haircut. And shaved and he did before once the people saw him live. They began filing out in rapid order to the bathroom. So the match was killed before it ever started Bradshaw. Offense was really stiffed. And I say that before you mainly did Kawada style. Shotgun. Larry, it's Bradshaw kicked out of Vader bomb and invader kicked out of a sick Leiria and then got clobbered boss, second one and Bradshaw got the pin after a neck. Breaker. It's amazing because even with the win Bradshaw. Still isn't going to get over Vader needed to gone on home months ago because this is ridiculous star in a half your response. Matches. Brutal. And you know, Leon was in his twilight of his career at this point. In. He wanted to put guys over on the big guys over that. He liked to and he liked John. So we did it match had no heat. Nobody cared. It was it was a force. And there was no story to it. So there was no way to care in. There wasn't enough in my opinion at the time wasn't enough development into any of the characters for John specifically, I was putting tag teams. And then when he was putting singles, it was just go be allowed now Texan without a whole lot of direction because John could talk and he was entertaining. But without something to talk about how fucking entertain can you be? And that was the issue. Just one work in wasn't wasn't getting over. So let's talk a little bit about the pivot. You guys are going to have this is the biggest win Bradshaw's career up to this point. It's near the end of the run for Vader. But it does feel like you're, you know, giving him a win, and it's on paper of you. So maybe you want to do something with them. But you've had him shave him cut his hair if like you're grabbing straws for something for him. And then somewhere, I don't know where November of ninety eight Bradshaw for route start to team up as the act Klein's. How does that come to be? How do we go from this? To the ACA lines will John good friends, Ron Simmons and too. Big bastards undertaker was forming the ministry of darkness and was thinking about having to big bodyguards in there too. Big guys to do the bidding. And if they were a part of the ministry of darkness is tag team to represent. It was faction time during that time. So the bigger in the better guys that you could have in the more of them than the better. So they were friends and also it helped that they had good chemistry, and they did have a story by being a part of the ministry during that time that was that was the reason behind it. And I'll say, yeah, you mentioned cutting his hair and this was during the time that JR went on a kick about God damn everybody. Hey, won't be rash. Gotta have long hair got long hair and all his ship JR. That was his advice everybody. Hey name. I'll get over change him cut your hair, which is good advice. Sometimes. But sometimes it's not that fucking good. You can't grow your hair back overnight. You can cut it immediately. You can cut that shit be done with it gone. But it doesn't grow back overnight. So let's have a plan. I for the guy just completely changes as fucking luck. And that's what John Don John told get haircut unbeknownst to anybody else. Really? But the acolytes put him in the team that was some that take wanted to do and John and Ron good friends, and they made a hell of a team. Yes. They did. I assume that's Vince Russo pairing fencer. So drew up the ACA lines, it was actually undertake repairing but Vince Russo had been working with the ministry darkness. That was some taker wanted to do yes, I start off under Bidzos rub Russa's watch. Definitely I started off being managed by the jackal, but that doesn't last too long wad it and the jackal workout as manager for the coins laid like him, and they didn't need him. Because again, only be clear are you saying that Simmons feel with management's we don't want. This guy didn't feel they needed him. And they knew that the idea was to go to the ministry of darkness, and they didn't feel that the jackal that character worked in the ministry of darkness. So why put them with a mouthpiece? Now when they didn't need a mouthpiece. When they're going to be joining the ministry. Darcus that was the whole thing behind. They didn't like it. It was like you're putting us here with him. Now when we've got to get over there with the dead, man. It just didn't make a lot of sense. So talk to me a little bit about the the symbols on their chest. You tell me I don't know what the fuck they were. I don't think they knew what they were. Who came up with the idea? Hey, this is what we should do. I think that was taker as well. Paint some shit on you, and and kind of change it up a little bit. But I I don't know if that was supposed to be just some dark, you know. Underworld symbols or what the hell they were. But it was it was always funny because I don't like I said, I don't think John Ron knew what the hell they were paying. Well, here's the deal. Marie search found out that it was a Colt symbols. And it's like. Words I can't pronounce in a band hillbilly Baptist. I don't know. But it's like Necker Namakonha or some shit either way. It's an interesting time. It's the undertaker's ministry, darkness, whatever they start getting winds, which is what's important all of a sudden Brad Chelsea's himself getting ws left and right over teams like godfather and valvoline ass- the DO a Hardee's and then once they're put in to the undertaker's ministry darkness. It's not too long before their turn into the corporate ministry. I guess we should fast forward March second nineteen ninety nine. There's a an infamous match on heat from Pittsburgh. Public enemy gets a win by D, Hugh. But boy that didn't fuck and feel like winners. Tell the story of how in the world we got here and the fallout from this match. Well, they had a Finnish for the match where the acolytes going to put public enemy through table right before they went out to the ring. The public enemy. We're going out to the ring. I and they told Ron John that they were gonna take out that table spot at the end which was a finish. So they told him that. And they went out and John turn around Ron Roz. What he say this is he said take out the table spot at the end is. So they don't wanna do table spot. I guess not. We'll bring the tables them. And they made sure they got the table spot in. Pretty brutal when they come back through the curtain. What does Vince? So the office of the boys. What's the reaction to the acolytes into public enemy? Well, first of all it was going to see just. Yeah. Who's air? When when everybody came back, obviously, John Ron ready for whatever might happen in public enemy came back and walked right up to them shook their hands. Thank you very much. They didn't want any more of that. So I think everybody, you know, that just told everybody where they were in public enemy, man. They weren't getting over talk to me about what you just said that showed everybody where they were. Well, the you know, they're supposed to be tough guys they want it. They they're they're finding Danny doing everything in the world to somebody else, but taking it is a different situation. So they were happy given it out. They didn't want to take it isn't that isn't that fair to say that on some level? There's like an unspoken pact between wrestlers, I'm not a fucking wrestler. So I'm speaking out of turn here. But I've heard that the the understanding in this brotherhood of wrestlers is that I'm looking out for your body and trust in new on. Yeah. And when one of the guys sort of goes into business for himself and beats the fuck out of another guy. That's okay. Well, when the other guys not doing what was agreed to do in the other guys is fighting to get to the point. Yeah. It is. Okay. Because at that point, it's not you know, they weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing. So they were trying to go into business for themselves them being public enemy in a PA was trying to get to the to the story that was supposed to be in that match. Okay. So what's what's what's man? Think about somebody getting the fuck out of them on a show like this. Well, I was hey, you know, what I mean, I hate to say, Johnny. I didn't really know Johnny at all other than medium few times. So I I can't tell you much about Johnny. But Ted petty to me was a standup guy in Ted was a I always liked Ted a lot. And I thought that he was always good stand up guy. They they got in their head that, you know, they couldn't do certain things didn't wanna do it. It was that was their detriment. So Vince was this was kind of done with them at that point. And the boys will take care of the boys. And at that time in the business. That's how things happen you let the dressing room police itself without management having to get involved in things pretty much usually tend to work out is the business like that anymore. I don't think so. And I think that that's just the society is not like it used to be remember doing a. Going to my kid's school one timing with the principal. And and saying that, you know, what's wrong with the kids. Today's nobody's been punched in the mouth. And boy, you would have thought that. I'd just done some bad news mother some but society kids in school. They don't go behind the supermarket and fight. And then once they do back in the old days you had a fight with somebody. It was over. Came back to school the next day. The loser had a black guy. The winner was. Okay. And you moved on that settled it whatever difference. You had whatever bullshit there was you fought it out yet winner yet. A loser next. In this society? Everybody gets a fucking trophy. Interesting. Let's keep it moving. Here. Bradshaw is going to get his first world title win. And this is a pretty cool thing may twenty fifth nineteen ninety nine other going to get a win over X pocking Kane, they become tag team champions. Ron's been every champion there was. But this is really the first taste of championship. Gold in the does Bradshaw. Gives shit one way or another. I think that they they look at it as a. Yeah. It's it's a good moment. Because shows that we're doing something with you moving on. So that's yeah. It's good. It's good to be in a story championships. Don't mean as much as long story at the championship is a story. Even better. They eventually lose those titles on July fifth on raw to the hardy, boys. Let's fast forward to fully loaded July twenty fifth nineteen ninety nine for route Bradshaw regain the tag titles when they be Matt. And Jeff hardy who also teaming with Mr. dude, dude, dude himself, Michael PSA's. It's going to be a two one three match. And of course, the finish. You can guess sees Michael Hayes take a double team power bomb, and then get pinned costing his team the tag titles, and this is the second time the acolytes tax champs recently talked about this on the Michael Hayes show. Michael Hayes in the same ring with Justin hog Bradshaw. That's kind of fun. Dave Dave day was and and again, they're all over together. But I think this was Michael's last time in the ring for a long time. Yeah. I think that's fair to say after this the acolytes defending the title successfully in a bunch of triple threat matches against the Hardy's edge and Christian on August ninth. They lose the tag titles back to X park and Kane and that sets up summer slam ninety nine where we get and Bradshaw meeting edge and Christian. There you go starring three quarters kind of interesting. I don't really associate those teams as being in the same era. But yet they are. Next up. We've got X pock winning the four corners elimination match over Kane for route and Bradshaw. Let happened at the no mercy ninety nine paper view, and the finish is something that kind of got shit on in the observer, quote fruit came off, the topper for shoulder blog when pot caught him with the x factor for the pin and the finish was mistime badly enough that the crowd was flat for it. After all the months building the finish where park had finally pin. A big guy the crowd couldn't have cared less. When he did so star in a quarter. What are you remember about XBox here? Finally, getting a win over big guy, and it's just fallen flat. Sometimes does the best laid plans. And if there's one little thing off in the audiences taken out of the moment that all the work that you did before it can get lost in that one situation. But that happens that's the business. And unfortunately, I it can even happen with the best of them. So ex pop kinda got stuck with that. And it unfortunately is what it is. Let's talk about survivor series ninety nine godfather d low in the head bangers gonna win elimination mass over the Dudley's and the acolytes and the deadliest the new company at the time. We've talked a little bit about the success that public enemy had c w now they're here in the company compare and contrast that with the Dudley's how did that work with APA? Well, the Dudley's went in and the Dudley's did everything that they were asked to professionals, and they had great matches the the Dudley's APA when out beat the living shit out of each other. And they all four loved it. So the difference is dud Dudley's came in to do business in the Dudley's came in to get people over into work with guys, and they didn't have that ego. And they didn't have a problem doing what they were asked to do and APA the all four of those guys like to work tight. They liked to work snug. And that's what they did. You felt it. Yeah. I don't think anybody could argue that think everybody felt it one of those guys wrestles. Armageddon may still be feeling it. They still are. That's great lot. Lot of chiropractors know about their damage Armageddon. December twelve nineteen ninety nine the acolytes win an eight team battle Royal tag shot attack title shot at the Royal rumble. This is his best year. Nineteen ninety nine has to be his best year in the company, and it comes being a tax partner with Faruk. You know, at this point he's been saddled with a couple of different partners. Of course, that's mentality. Even though that didn't wrestle together. He's with him all the time. And then with Barry Windham. And now we're trying to kin with Ron Simmons wad. Why did it work better with ROY than anybody else chemistry? Probably and. I think that Jon had chemistry with Dutch mantel to, but it was different type of chemistry. Ron John travelled together. They hung together. They did everything together they trained together. So there was some really really good chemistry there. It was an opportunity for Ron to get rejuvenated with a young partner, and it was an opportunity for Bradshaw to have credibility with the season partner of Ron Simmons. Sometimes man, you just put them together. And you've got magic in. This instance, you had magic where they. They weren't putting on. They just were who they were. And it wasn't. It wasn't a stretch gimmick where they had to portray somebody else. Let's keep it moving here. These January thirty first episode of raw this is two thousand the main street posse asked the acolytes to protect them, which they refused to do until the posse agrees to pay him. And when they do Bradshaw starts the APA the acolytes protection agency, they essentially become bodyguards for higher. Pretty good idea. What can you tell us about this? How does it come to be? And let's talk about the creative of they're always backstage playing cards and drinking beer, and then the cutout doorway, which is fucking hilarious. Well, this started during the whole Chris Chris ski, Ron and Christie key. And Brian words, Tommy blanquita doing lot of the creative at that time. And this was an example, some of the fun off the wall things to take these characters they were evil, you know, body pain all other bullshit onto the ministry of darkness. Now, takers on doing other things. How do you then? Move on with the a PA and this well at the acolytes you become the APA protection agency. And in the beginning. I don't even know that anyone thought that it would go beyond one or two shows with the. Mainstreet posse asking for protection. But then it became they became so good backstage with the door there. And I want to say that might have even been Mick Foley's idea with the doors shit, but it all worked it all came together that those vignettes became iconic and made that tag team now, I could relate to them. Now, I like them, and you got to see him in a different light other than just couple ass kickers in the ring. The new age outlaws get a win over the acolytes to retain the tag titles at the Royal rumble two thousand and two minutes and thirty five seconds. Why was the match so short? I have no idea she had probably just because we didn't have a lot of time at the rumble, and we're looking at the damn show going well thought get out there get go in and get out. So it just probably a million and one reasons needy more time in the show, an April of two thousand on raw the APA would protect tied during a match when they were attacked, by Buchanan and boss weigh-in, and that set up a match for backlash the insurrection pay per view saw roadlog pin Bradshaw after what else are called a lousy looking pump handle slam and big boss man and be cannon would beat the acolytes and the star in three-quarter mats. That Meltzer was say was a stiff fast paced match. Maybe talked a lot about Bill Buchanan here on the show. Good bull stores. You can share with us. Oh god. No, pull poor berry Buchanan. He was a great hand. And he was one of those guys from smokey mountain wrestling that cornet was always pushing wonderful wonderful hand, great talent. But he just was missing that personality more than anything in probably some of the best shit that he did was with John CENA is John CENA sidekick to be the rapper. And that was some fun stuff that he did. But but ball, just a a wonderful, man. Nice guy that I don't know if he was really made for the business. Well, but maybe saved us money, and maybe you need to save a little money or your credit card bills keeping up night interest rates, and the double digits, we'll be smart and pay off your credit card balances with a credit card consolidation loan from light strain fixed rate as though is five point nine five percent APR with auto-pay, and you could save thousands and interest. He can get alone from five thousand to a hundred thousand dollars there's no fees, and you can even get your money as soon as the day apply. Plus livestream is a division of SunTrust Bank one of the nation's largest financial institution. So you can have complete peace of mind. I'm use livestream for years. I was able to even get a loan from them years ago to buy a car so aisles able to shop like a cash buyer, and I felt like I got a much better deal. I got a tiny interest rate extracted from our count. It was a breeze. Hey, if you want to save even more, well, our listeners, get an additional interest rate discount. How about? This. The only way to get this discount is to go to light stream dot com slash wrestle. That's L I G H T S T R E A M dot com slash wrestle now. Subject to credit approval rating include the half percent auto pay discount. Terms and conditions apply. Offers or subject to change without notice. So what are you waiting for? Visit livestream dot com slash wrestle. For more information right now, you'll be glad you did light stream dot com forward slash wrestle. Okay. Let's keep moving here. I guess we should mention that on the may eighteenth two thousand episode of smackdown. The APA or higher to protect crash Holly for an hour in order to prevent him from losing the hardcore title, and after the hour is up the APA leave and that allows Gerald Brisco to pin hardcore or crash Holly rather for the hardcore championship and the situation. Results in Holly, challenging Bradshaw hardcore match, which of course, Pratt show wins and later that week on smackdown Peru would defeat Holly in hardcore Matt so they're turning it into some pretty fun angles on may thirtieth. They trust something different. It's a king of the ring qualifying match Kurt angle would pin Bradshaw. Here. Fast forward to the end of the next month and on rawal, we've got the APA winning tag team battle Royal the tone of other teams edge and Christian have been avoiding defending the tag titles against the APA. That's the backs. Story. And now they finally get the big payoff here or they're going to get a shot at those tag titles, and they actually get a win. But it's the queue and they did a bit earlier in the show Christian was pretending to be broken out. And they bring in a doctor and a Commissioner, Mick Foley, and they'd team that he is able to work but just before match Tom fully catch us Christian in the act of pretending throw up so Christian. Of course as busted and talk about all the different conspiracy theories. It's a fun angle. It's a fun segment, but it's becoming clear the APA is more and more about comedy. But they still have this bad ass edge who's who's digging that who's writing most of the stuff at this point? Is this still Chris skiing in the bunch? Yeah. Braga words had a lot to do with it in also during this time, I was doing. Started back doing lot of the vignettes backstage. So we would take the ideas and take a lot of that creative in half fun with it. It was a combination of lot of folks in creative. But it was the delivery of John and Ron that made these things work, and, you know, the plane poker and smoking cigars, and what have you that is what made it you had a million different guys in there. And I don't think they would have made it work as well as they did when guys just walk in. And hey, use the door. They didn't exist if they didn't come in the door. So that was always just highly entertaining shit and most of the time it was. Sitting at the table and trying to think of shit to do. We all talk and come up with some crazy stuff who were at the JFK line as a reminder, the the shows taking place in Dallas here and edge and Christian or saying something like the referencing JFK Seth nation saying he would've killed himself. If he had spent anymore time in Dallas. And of course, Bradshaw comes out and puts over how great Dallas says mentioning the free birds and von Eric's, bruiser Brody, and dick Murdoch and all those guys wrestling right here in this town this arena baba, so it's big baby face moment. This sort of weird that we're just casually throwing in presidential assassination reference. I have no idea. Probably just did it because they were in Dallas, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, I don't think they'd be doing that today. It's weird. How no yeah. Okay. Let's keep it moving. Here. The Dudley boys in the APA are going to form an alliance on September. Seventh two thousand and the following week on raw the APA faces right sensor and. Yeah. That's what they're doing. Now. It is sort of weird that that's where we wind up at the unforgiven pay per view. We would see the right to censor beat the acolytes and the Dudley's in six minutes and four seconds as much as I love the godfather, boy, I was not fan of the good father. I guess Vince really had high hopes for the right to censor as much as we had to sit through their bullshit, right? It was a message matches the parent parent teachers council at that was the one at the time. But they got a lot of heat right to censor had a shit load a heat and win. The took the hose away from the godfather, even more. So yeah, that was a group that had a shit load heat. It was good. After that. We're onto the no mercy pay per view in the scheduled match is supposed to be the acolytes and lead taking on TNA intra strategy, but never takes place because TNA take the knees out of both act lines hitting Ruth with a tire iron and dropping foul cabinet Bradshaw. Snee- an allegedly the angle is done this way because for routes knee really does need office cropping surgery and Bradshaw has a legit broken rib. Any memories of how Bradshaw brook the reappear before any of the tech a break. Probably working with the Dudley's. Sure, I'll hear about that one for Bubba. The I don't think it was accumulation. And he was working, you know, not telling anybody, and then it got to the point where I Bailey little right here. John, you might have a broken rib. Get that checked out. Then get a check out. And how'd you do that? I don't know probably in a match. Lot of times. I just have no idea should hurts. And you keep going on and think it's going to go away when you wake up in the morning, and it's ten times worse. Sometimes it goes away. Sometimes you get them floating rib injuries. I don't worry about. I want to be rid. Let's definitely not a rid definitely not a rib APA Bradshaw. Wrestling random matches on how shows raw and heat really too. But no major angles or directions, the Royal rumble two thousand one with Bradshaw. Come in number sixteen doesn't eliminate anyone. And he's thrown out by the entertainer. Good wrestlemainia seventeen in Houston, which we recently covered. We've got Bradshaw and for route and TASR on one side. Good father bull Buchanan in Valvano on the other Bradshaw on our voice. Get the win a star and a half. Probably a pretty cool moment for Bradshaw to be on wrestlemainia card in the state of Texas is not -absolutely at his folks there and all of his friends. Yeah. Me big moment for anybody on wrestlemainia, Texas by God Ghani you saying June thirteenth two thousand one. The APA are allowed to work for Maryland. Championship wrestling at the slamming summer showdown, and they gonna win over Charlie and Russ Haas. What's the relationship? Lock with thirty to be for you guys to be loaning talent out MC w I believe that was Jim Kettner who was involved that. I could be wrong. So we did have. It was a local grew out of Maryland. And. From time to time if it would help them out in the fact that they were working with Charlie and Russ who we knew and been through the developmental and all that then it was something we control and did it is favor. Do those every once in a while back is? I can't get a favor on July nine two thousand one on raw Bradshaw pinned Yvonne to win the third tag team championship, and that takes us to the invasion, pay per view. We've got the APA feeding Sean O'Hare and Chuck Palumbo non title match. Whereas the WB f- champs versus the W champs. Let's fast forward to August seventh. I'll smack down the APA would lose the tag titles. The DP canyon. I don't know. We'll talk about this again what Bradshaw thinking ADP canyon. Co-boys actually liked him. Because they're both good workers. So got to be able to go out and have good matches. Not just, you know, chop shop meat and had no problem with that. Because Dallas was Dallas Dallas hell of a worker and canyon, man. Kenya was hard touching. The ring. He was one hell of a great worker. So they enjoyed those times because you could actually have batches with them. The summer, slam two thousand one pay per view. We've got the Dudley's and test baiting spike Dudley in APA. Nick, Patrick is your referee the two and three quarter stars. Shane McMahon is involved here. It's okay. But sort of is what it is. But it is sort of the end of an era for a little bit because for route takes a high dose and Bradshaw starts to work. Singles again at this point is just banged up. Or why did he need to take some time off? Yeah. Ron needed needed some rest, shoulders knees back everything was hurting autumn and ranches needed arrest. And sometimes you gotta just let them go and go he'll up if he needed a surgeries, and I don't think he need surgery. He just needs some time off the road to recoup. Its it's interesting though, because normally when one of the TAC partners goes down, they try to pull both partners offer film, just fill Tom for the guys still healthy. But instead you try something in here on the twenty second raw Bradshaw beats hurricane to win the European title. So at this point he's been in the company for like five years, and this is first singles, title, and it happens. When his partner is injured. Guess we're clearly trying something here. Just see, you know, Vince, always in back of his head thought looked Bradshaw thought we've got a single competitor. Here we have a single attraction. So. That's he would always try to do that with Ron bean out for little while why not do something with Bradshaw. See what we have? I think John was lost. At that point. I really do. The this period is career a. Was it confident as a singles, competitor my opinion. So let's talk about the European title ten days after wins. It he drops to Christian on smackdown. Do you think that you were trying something and you'll also confidence in him? Or is it more? We wanted Christian to be too big for the bell, not hurricane. Yes. The latter part. We want Christian to to win the championship not necessarily from hurricane. And it was changes at transitional say that three times championship run form short sweet. Now, let's get to the no way out pay per view. February two thousand two APA wins. The tag team turmoil match for a shot at wrestlemainia. They'd be like Scotty to haughty and Albert cushion a Lance storm, the hardy boys the Dudley's billion Chuck crabs not super into it. Mash, okay, got star in a half skip to wrestle any eighteen billion shock, retaining the tag titles in a form four way elimination match over the Hardy's, the Dudley's and the APA. This is not nearly the wrestlemainia match the people want from the Hardee's and the Dudley's is it. Well, it was a departure from what they had done the previous year. That's for sure. But I thought that the match was pretty damn good. They all beat the shit out of each other. The audience though, was expecting that whole table ladder and chairs that they had gotten the year before and they'd seen so much that at some point you have to bring it back. So that you can go, you know, go back to some of those things because otherwise, it's just tough to recover. And I've watched his match recently. It was a damn good match. They beat the shit out of each other. It was good. Okay. So you know, it's coming. March twenty fifth two thousand to the APA is broken up during the draft Rancho goes to raw for route goes to smackdown. Why was it decided to split them up win? Did they know they were being split up highly feel about it? Will they didn't like it? First of all because both guys felt they were better team. But again, it was explained to John this is an opportunity John to try to have a singles career if we're going to do anything, let's do something. But they did know until it actually happened that night, and it was an opportunity to try something new try something new with Ron try something new with John and see if it works. The only way you're gonna nose to try it and see what happens. April fifteenth raw branch show and Steve Austin would team up to take on Scott hall XBox in the undertaker holy shit. From teaming with Ron Simmons to stone cold Steve Austin, and it happened in like three weeks. He's got to be pretty happy with the split now. Right. He was but I still think there was a little bit. Lack of confidence. I think that's best way to best way to explain it. As far as does he fit in here? He wanted to he really wanted to be in that top picture. And sometimes it's just think it was a half step behind that people notice in the look when you looked at that pictures, like, okay, you know, which two guys really don't fit in here. I think it was it was John and XBox in that in that big thing. So it was but again, we were trying mad get him out put him with Austin and John's natural personality is well natural personality is a baby face. But I think he comes crosses fucking heal. Well, no doubt about that April twenty first two thousand two in Kansas City is backlash. He's got a singles match with Scott hall. But Scott hall gets the win. It feels a little stop and start. But I get at least he's figured in. With the top guy. He starts to bounce around with the hardcore title. He winds up winning eighteen times in this era. Most of those winds happening on house shows, and when he's the champ he renames at the Texas hardcore title, which is pretty fun. We did a whole show on the hardcore title belt and that entire run. So check it out in the archives. Something wrestle dot com. September two. He would suffer a torn left boss up and how show that keeps him out of action for six months. Are you are you guys boys here September of two or y'all communicating while he's on hiatus? Yeah. It's just I kept in touch with and make sure he was doing all right and see how is rehab was going torn biceps sex, and that's one of those. But I, you know, give them call every month. Make sure that to let him know we're still thinking about him and just get a progress report. Let's talk a little bit about when they come back because when he's back he comes back in March of oh three and he reforms the APA, and he's working a lot of matches in Lovie w and then wads up eventually on smackdown. They return on June nineteenth two thousand three to assist. The undertaker in an ambush from the FBI who likes the idea putting the APA back together and put him on swag. Now been stead because he felt that they were best when they were together that the APA that Ron and in John kind of floundered in singles up into this point. And that the only time that we were missing some of that creative in the entertaining aspect. On smackdown. So the idea was let's bring him back, and let's get some more of that entertainment value from the APA make them a team, and let's get them in the mix. But they they spent some time down in level working out and get in the ring rust offs when they came back this time, they I think they were ready. Vengeance two thousand three the APA invitational barroom brawl Iran, it what can you tell us about it? Well, first of all is shoot. I would want it. But. It was a gimmick. You know, it was a it was a gimmick match to have on the show when you're looking at all the talent that we had at the time on smackdown and trying to come up with something unique the barroom brawl was something and had a lot of unique characters in it for some reason somebody wanted the Easter bunny in the damn thing as we got the Easter bunny and out of the blue one day we were watching. The raw bowl where brother love had done the invocation and kept talking and going on and on and on forever. So then somebody says we'll end brother Love's should be in it. I was like, no, brother. Love's not going to be an brother love ain't work in brother. Love ain't going to be in it. That was all Vince had to hear brother law. So I was announced on on the air to be in the damn thing. And as you could see I got my shots in. I took out a few people say, I'm Tom black belt hall of fame. Conrad. So, you know, nobody really wanted to fuck me on that that their match, and I took a few people out with chairs and some bottles and shit. Funaki ni- kinda hit under the table for the majority of the thing. And. My god. I did the job because I'm a pro. That's what I do after this. They're working a lot of how shows challenging the world's greatest tank team Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas for the tag titles. Of course, they lose all those matches. And no mercy Allen October ninth. The Basham GMs get a win in eight minutes and fifty five seconds over APA. It looks like the bloom may be off the rose a little bit already for the AP return Bradshaw source working singles matches around this time against big show. Horseshoe a train Chuck Palumbo. We've talked about most of those guys but not horseshoe. He tells him. Our shoe? Gotta getting remembers you'll lame from Arizona, and he was a friend of Jack Don the referee Luther reigns. As Luther Ray. That's that was a gimmick name. But that's what people Domus, you're right, Lutherans and big bastard. Worked a little bit here. And there we were heard for talent brought him in liked his look, but unfortunately, damn bell rang and aid in last very long. But a really nice guy. I think he's doing real estate or something out in Arizona right now small world. To survivor series three been John CENA, branch Shaw, hardcore Holly, Kurt angle, big show a train. I mean, everybody is in this one team angle gets the win thirteen minutes and seventeen seconds going into two thousand four Bradshaw's mainly just kind of how show presence at anytime when he sorta on TV with title note, just put Gaza over on house shows any sort of doubt as to what he's doing. Or what the creative is see unhappy camper, and we hear stories these days about so and so's not happy, and so and so's laying on the locker room floor, and whatever whatever does that exist ever with JBL. John's will the most positive people that I've ever met. So no John road is buck, you know, during this time he was New York Times bestseller. He. Always wanted to delve into stocks and finances and extremely intelligent and really bright guy. Sajal loved wrestling. John didn't give a shit about. You know, who he was who he was wrestling and wins and losses as long as he was involved and making some money, then he was happy and he would make the best out of a shitty situation. So yes, I think there was part part of him that that might have been, but you would never know it now, I was just wanting to bitter. Well, I mean, listen, there's really no spots a slot this in here. Well, that's what she said. Gosh, let's talk about six good sex. When you're always ready to go when I increase your performance and extra confidence in bed. Listen up Baluchi dot com. That's blue the color blue blue brings you the first two with the same FDA approved active ingredients is both by angers NCI Alyce. No, they work. You can take them anytime. 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The gas bond themselves in the two thousand four Royal rumble Bradshaw comes in number five. He's eliminated by Crispin wa branch house back on house shows very rarely on TV. But somehow finds himself in a match wrestlemainia twenty it's Ricky she and Scotty to Hoti beating the bathrooms and Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin on the APA and not too terribly long after that it's time for a pivot March eighteenth on smackdown. They lose a tag team, you're fired match to the tag champs for key sheet and Scotty to haughty in general manager Paul Heyman. Frustrated by insult from the PA toll for route. If he did not win that tag match your fired. Of course, they lose the match and then afterwards, Brad. Schol leads fruit back, the Heyman's office and say they had not been fired. But instead they've resigned and Heyman clears up the misunderstanding and points out that they didn't win the titles. So you're fired. And WBF management dairy management has a lot a lot of potential in branch shell and that's all straight from Paul Heyman as journal manager character. So we fired for Ruch. Bradshaw has high hopes, and I think for route assumed that. Bradshaw's go still quit, but Bradshaw hesitating and for route takes us hesitation to mean that he would not resign. So he promptly disbanded the PA and leaves and this affectively Terge branch Shaw. He'll what are you remember about this? Well, we had gotten to we draft stuff all these different things. But looking at somebody talent that were injured, and we had to have someone step up. We really needed talent. We we had to change some of the things we were doing and create new stars. Ron was unfortunately, it just was. Not working with Ron it's time. And so they told Ron, you know, maybe we'll do something with as an agent Ron really wasn't interested in that. And in Ron was let go, but John the character would John. During this time, he was working with I believe MSNBC doing a lot of guest appearances his book, the financial book was flying off shells. And he's appearing on all of these television shows is John les field. Articulate, great advice, and people are clamoring to have them as guests on their financial shows. While we're thinking of an ideas like will shit. He's already doing this. What if we just put a spin on it and made him a heel, add let him be again, this one more tempt? And I remember Vince is saying this one doesn't work then, you know, it's not gonna happen for John. Let's make one last attempt with this Wall Street character kinda like Michael Douglas played whose real asshole. And make one last attempt in Vince gave the come to Jesus meeting, John if this doesn't work, then, you know, we got nothing for you. John took it and ran with it and the JBL character was born. But it was met with a lot of skepticism because people thought will shit, you know, how many times are you going to go to the well with this guy in Vince just had the confidence and the wherewithal the staying power say fuck it. I'm gonna do this. And we're gonna make it work and John did his part by in his ass doing everything he could to make this character work, and we finally found a way to get the guy. In the backstage on camera in that was Shabyah L. When you guys. Keller would ri- Bradshaw was professional when informed of the company decision to release his tag team partner. WB has big plans for Bradshaw as a singles wrestler, and it's one source says Brancheau happy enough with where his character is headed that losing his tag partner wasn't a major concern. You were probably familiar with the circumstance when you sit him down and say, so hey, listen, we're letting wrong go here's what we've got. How's that met? John was upset. I didn't like it. Because seeing Henry friends he felt that. The I just sad this morning. You're losing your friend, and your your partner that's travel with and hang out with all the time. It's not going to be the same on the road anymore. So John John was definitely upset. But he also understood in a very professional about it said he described with it, but was moving on, and he would make the most out of the new character just said, what do you need me to do? And we told him and he went and got suits made and the whole nine yards. And he was ready to invest and move forward with this new gimmick JV ele said that the JBL character something he had mine for a long time or character. Very similarly, but creative was always reluctant to let him do it because he was always doing stuff with the troops. And they didn't really need him. And quote, then all of a sudden at once, I think big show big show was hurt rock listener left, the company, and all of a sudden you need somebody immediately in that role. And that's when they did decide to make the change. Just all of a sudden one day. I don't think it was something thought about with a lot of forethought man had always told me that he thought could be world champion, and he was probably the only person in the entire company thought that I have no idea why thought that, but when they came up with the J B O character, I knew this was going to be my last shot at it. So I was really hoping Mike at work. It didn't work out at all for the first few weeks. And if it hadn't been for eighty Guerrero, probably wouldn't have worked. Thank goodness I the right opponent and a good friend of mine, and it ended up working JBL has also said that he was a big fan of j or Ewing any sorta wanted to base the character off of that a lot of our younger listeners may not be familiar with that name chats up about JR. Ewing, JR Ewing was oil millionaire in the television show, Dallas. He was a nasty conniving one of the biggest heels ever on television. And it was just a big. Texan with lot of swagger and a just an evil genius. The people love to hate. Came up with the JBL name. I think I eventually did because he was appearing on television shows as John les field. So to keep the Bradshaw in. There's like what if this name was John Bradshaw lay field? And then we shorten it. Like LBJ Lyndon Baines Johnson to J B L being from Texas. And that's how we kinda came up with it. I it was stay true to what he's doing out in the out in the real world. But incorporate. His working name and create a new moniker when you're doing it. So he went from Bradshaw. John les field in real life to John Bradshaw. Lay field. That's JBL. So so what happened? The the car with the horns the siren the the hand sanitizer. Lots of little touches to this character who all would have had influence on that. Oh, God that was the horns and the car and all that was all vents and the the hand sanitizer was me. Commenting on vents always doing the hand sanitizer on the plane and things like that. And I'd seen one time China at a airport where fans came up, and they shook her hand and immediately after they shook her hands she put hand sanitizer on her hands like dinner hands. Oh my God. What a he'll. But. It was I looked at that. That's one of the best moves ever for. He'll and said what what if you like shake their hand shake hands a decision done shaking their hands do the hand sanitizer because that's an asshole move. And it just was a conglomeration of lot of different ideas. It is interesting though, because you know, you, and I've done main greats where we shake two hundred fifty people's hands and row and afterwards. It's sort of a natural inclination to think I probably need to wash my hands. Right. I'll just shook two hundred fifty hands us a lot, folks. Absolutely. But we don't do it in front of them. We don't shake we don't shake their hands scored Canada and sanitizer. And then go to the extra shake their hand and put more hand sanitizer on. No, it was a great touch super. He'll ish why comes off so helix. But it certainly does. He'll do it mother fucker tremendous the April eighth smackdown. Bradshaw's talking about southern ignorance. And then he. Millions fan Mahim wax, the hood of his limo for thousand bucks, sixty seconds. Put force he sabotages the contest that sounds kinda millier how much of this was directly patterned after the million dollar, man. A little bit of it was we had to had that tinge to it because we didn't want people to like him. So there were parts million dollar, man. A lot of it is. Is based on Vince McMahon. If you were to ask me, but lot of based on the the million dollar, man. It's just John in general. Betas damn smart as he is. I would sit meetings with him and listen to him speak to people who where they would only see him on television. And then you're in a boardroom with him go what the or the fuck this guy come from? And he's different human being. So combination of all the above. Yeah. It's fun stuff. Let's keep it moving here. There's a vignette that airs with Bradshaw on the Mexican border lecturing about illegal immigration. He's. Little aboard chasing. And Kurt angle an answers in the ring that Bradshaw has been appointed the winner of the great American trophy. And of course, career out destroys, the trophy and Guerrero is the WB champion at the time. So when he destroys it immediately finds himself in an angle with JBL. Is there any raising their eyebrow about wait a minute guy's wrestling for the world title, and he was just doing enhancement work a couple of months ago. Well, no, they didn't they bought it. And I tell you it was the the vignette us talked about on the US Mexico border was something that we shot in east, Texas. I had driven up there to meet John John his dad had a friend that had all the sprawling land and had a big fence across it and everything that we could shoot in the middle of the night, and do whatever we wanted to do on the land. And what have you? So I get there. I've got the crew with me and everything and okay, John, which is go ahead and go over the house and see it, and let's set up and it was on a Wednesday. And this is Mr. pressure there in church swill can't just go. I mean, we're not going in the house. We just start setting up on the land. He's well, I'm not real sure where they live. But I got an idea they're up here on this hill, we go down that road and Bubba bus will okay. Can we go? So we. We take off got the entire crew all the lights and all this other shit, and we pull up to this ranch. We opened the gate. We drive down the long road to the house into the all the horse land in the back and all that shit. And sunk will where's this this fence? She were telling me about and well, thanks way back there. But we should probably wait until they get here. We're waiting and waiting and waiting and finally. Pickup truck comes to the gate, and they stop. And well that must be them when they pull up a little further on down the road sin like a short driveway, man. It's like a year in east, Texas, big sprawling ranches and shit. Yeah. Pulls up a little more stops. And you see the light on in the in the truck in the cabin the truck, and you see the two people in there doing something. And we're waving and shit. And and I'm sorry. I forgot the the lighting crew in the guys are all walking around with flashlights and shit flashing lights all over the place looking for power in different things. All around the house. So this Trump gets there, John, and I go to approach the truck wave in and all this shit next thing you hear is the sound that you just never forget the shotgun. Yes. Yeah. In this guy. Had that shotgun. Fuck in just cocked and point Nadison. We're like, whoa. We were at the wrong house. Oh, my kind. In. Thank god. Everybody in town who John's dad was. In John starts going on about, you know, his dad goes. Well, no. You're looking for also so's ranch. Raid. Has some burglars down. Here is go get me some oh, I mean. If I had not already taking care of business today. I would have shipped myself right there. It was terrifying. And we were just like couple ranches over. But yeah, we were at the wrong fucking house. Start unloading shit. So then we went out and Rudy Gonzales, actually, the guy who helped train Shawn Michaels or an in work to Shawn Michaels and all that stuff. Was that was him and his family that we used coming across the border there. It's amazing. Let's let's keep it going the next month. Or so JBL finds himself wrestling any on the house show loop off course, title matches any wins every time April twenty second on smackdown. Brancheau would be Il GRANDE Lucci door billed as the Mexico champion a week later of in yet would air with Bradshaw, ripping on a legal immigrants, tree, huggers and socialists. On may sixth. Michael Cole and a tragic accident occurred over the weekend and footage airs from El Paso, Texas. How show with Brancheau having an interaction with any Guerrero's? Mom, I'll take it from here. Mother's day in El Paso, Texas, where the Guerreros are a dynasty. And the idea was that on mother's day that we would have a presentation of flowers recognize Eddie Guerrero's, the matriarch of the Greco family is mother and. During this time Bradshaw would interrupt and Bradshaw would approach, and he's mom who would then go down as if she was having complications in trouble breathing, not go all the way to say. She had a heart attack or anything like that. But just that she was in shock and this would infuriate Eddie Guerrero wanting to destroy John les field. We had their family. Doctor was actually the doctor that we had that we were going to use for the shoot, and Eddie and Chevy, tow and Chalvin Chabot classic or their child class at Kipp gazette. He's the baby Eddie was the baby of the family in idiot. His mom were very very close and such. Man, we gotta get some. We'll get some color on mom. And when we get some color on her mentioned a little bit limb. Get to her and he's getting hot. No got dammit. Fook touching my mother and the more the hotter. Eddie got the more Chabot classic would suggest outlandish things. Like, mama. You can take that close on right? Or how about the boot just a boot boot safe? And of course, she's like laugh, and she's fine with it in Eddie's. Get matter mattered matter matter, nobody's going to touch my mother so much. So that like when I wanted John toucher is like can each us approach. I don't want to touch her Eddie, let him let him go to take the flowers and. All this hoopla going on. And she wasn't feeling all that. Well, anyway, but in the in the hoopla, she kinda lost her breath and went down before she was supposed to go down while I'm going God damnit bucket grill misunder Q, but it was very real because it was real. And she was her. Doctors is looking at eagle she's having a heart attack. I said we're not going to go the hard tack route. Then I realized he was serious. And it came it went from an angle to we've got gotta get her the fuck outta here. And we had all the paramedics we had real paramedics we had a re we had her actual doctor, and we had a real, and we had everything there. So she ended up going and get checked out. Thank god. It was it was not as bad as we had originally planned. But I thought Eddie Eddie thought was going to kill me because his head. It was my idea and I put his mother in danger. So I should be the one to be killed now. They all loved it when I pitched at, but yeah, it's not a lot of fun dealing with a pissed off Guerrero. That can be a little intense at times, we had a state trooper John's car was in the back where when right after this deal because crowd in El Paso can be a little hot sometimes after this deal yet lay field. Go get. Right in his car and take off the state trooper escorting him. They took him right to the state lives. John Young, sir. All right to the city line. He was gone, but. Yeah. That was a fun phone call to make that night on the episode of smackdown. The interview branch shawl via satellite from New York City. And he of course, says he's not responsible for the heart attack. And he ass as as I asked her politely leave, and it's her fault that she had heart attack after all she's the one who taught eighty two Lachine steel, and that's just the type of people. They are my relatives came here in a boat, not an inner tube. So they're turning the heat up a week later branch says by telephone he's got a surprise for any later on. So when Eddie is cutting a promo in the middle of the ring branch, white limo arrives. But when Bradshaw doesn't come out Eddie comes in and bashes in a side window than Bradshaw steps out and orders, the cops to arrest him Guerrero's handcuffed and Bradshaw. Takes a few shots at him. Later in the show Bradshaw. Pins very mysterious about eight minutes and in the end branch off through Ray into the announcer's table and then power Bob ner from the top turnbuckle and then hit his clothesline from hail for the win. And they did a promo for the pay per view and his title match against eighty and he went on WW dot com and criticize those who second gas WBZ decision to put him in the pay per view main events line. And he said for those of you fat out of shape internet wannabes who've never done anything more athletic than play checkers. Kiss my ass for doubting me JBL will deliver Sunday, and you can report whatever you want. You will also realize how little influence you have except your little nerd friends. How long has it been since you guys spend all your time reporting on us have been with a woman other than your mother after all when I see you in airports hanging out. You're always with guys you don't have a questionable sexual orientation to you. Of course, it's two thousand four I don't judge. So he's looking for heat in every. The way he can get it. And this is even though a lot of people would question the way he went about getting it here. Maybe a real he'll and not a cool. He'll has been hard to do since the end of yo made being a cool. He'll thing. Everybody sort of wanted to be the cool. He'll for a while. And here JBL is just doubling down on. Nope. I'm dick had everybody hate me. Please. Right. And and that's the difference. A lot of times is there's people who want to be hated in those. It's just want to be cool. Just want to be a star. I wanted to be hated John wants to be hated. So he plays the he'll all through and through. And you're not going to see him waiver. Yeah. That's the reason it stands out because he's just committed to being super. Hey, terrible. He jumps this. According to wake killer in may in the torch Brancheau has jumped from Fox News to CNBC for a twice weekly segment on bullseye. CNBC is the number one rated financial news network, but much less viewed overall than Fox News, also we should mention you touched on it. The book have more money now is really what landed him. These opportunities did Vince see some sort of crossover appeal with John he's doing cable news stuff all the time now, but advanced see that in in back in and who to that sort of catch off guard when you've got this rough and rugged carplay and beer-drinking well, John les field. But then he's you know, a talking head on news. Well, it was which issues that Dr advantage, create Jabe. L and it happened by accident. Just it just kind of happened when he was out promoting his book when they realize how well-spoken wasn't how knowledgeable he was. So the other networks capitalized on it. And he got permission to do it in its time. It was around the WWE schedule, and it just more exposure more everything so more power to more power to him. Indeed. Let's keep it moving. Here the judgment, I five per view. This is it. Maybe if you haven't seen this match stop what you're doing and go watch it judgment day two thousand four it's something else. Man. John bradshaw. Fields going to beat Eddie Guerrero. But the Hugh Brancheau had quote unquote, absolutely guaranteed victory before the mass. They're going to get twenty three minutes. It's a brawl from hail, here's directly. Wade wrote about Guerrero bladed and hit a gusher for perhaps the bloodiest. Gene in WWE history. Bradshaw was shocked when Guerrero kicked out of a power bomb, and then gerrad that superman comeback late and hidden DT for the Q aereo hit ranch Shaw with the world title belt that Brancheau brought into the ring two and three quarter stars dude. What a crazy crazy crazy match. The blood loss is incredible Meltzer would report that it was so significant little spurting out of his head with every beat of his heart. It's crazy. He goes to the hospital because Greg says when I grow Wacale says grill went backstage and wind shock the most taking the hospital. He got two bags of AVI. Flu is to try to rehydrate him. And he got sixteen stitches. Quote, the deep gash was considered nothing more than human error. It was not scripted for him to bleed that heavily and most within that every to be believed that there was just too much blood to the point that it took away from the drama since rather than getting into grills comebacks viewers for either rightfully queasy or grossed out or simply concern for eighth health. Others have bled heavily and w rings in recent years, most notably Vince McMahon and triple h but for sheer volume in duration Guerrero's bleeding at judgment day tops the list. I I can't imagine that anybody thought he was going to bleed this much. Did you talk to any about? Why he I mean? The accident may have just an accident. I don't think that anybody thought that who was going to be as bad as it was including any. It's shit happens. Sure. So you know, you gotta go with it. He's he's gonna take it all the way through the through the match in not waiver. Yeah. The back stage afterwards was was Harry because Eddie didn't go into shock. But he was it was to the point that we fell get him to the hospital to get stitches or Staples. Whatever it is that he's going to need versus trying to do it here. So that they can give him fluids. And they can't give him everything else because he had lost so much blood. The. Medical personnel in the back. We had him in the trainer's room. And they started to put IV's in in any sat up ripped everything out and like pushed his way through everybody in the. Trainer's room to go back to the locker room. And as he did that. It was one of those scenes that. I can only imagine, you know, you picture yourself in a movie, and there's Eddie Guerrero storming down the hallway backstage and Michael Hayes. And I are behind him just walking behind him pleading with him. Please Eddie, you gotta go and any went back into the dressing room. And he went looked himself in the mirror went and sat down and told him Musset. Eddie scan have one or two ways you can go to hospital. You can get stitched up. You get some fluids. They can do whatever they can check you out or not go to the hospital, and you're gonna pass out eventually, and then you're going to go to the hospital, and it's going to be much worse. So please let us get you taken care of. And he just looked up at me and says. Okay. Will you go with me? So course, I will any and then later on once we started getting all of his shit together. He came in. And he says he goes is it okay of child goes. Instead. Fuck yes. But it was it was bad. And he did go to the hospital. He did get stitched up got some fluids. And we had Eddie and I had joining rooms. So when he got back I made sure that he had his drill chicken Caesar salad and all that other shit guessing food and slept with the door open between the room. So if he needed anything that I was right there. So it was so long fucking night. Man. I tell you that. Well, since his reaction when he sees his champion pouring blood. He hated it. He he just he hated it. Because it was just way too much took away. It took away from the match in it it put the sympathy in the wrong place. If you know what I mean in Eddie bleeding. That's not where we wanted the sympathy. And it was it was just too much. It was overdone way overdone, and it wasn't meant to be that way. That was just a just an accident that happens. Man, something else after this match is working a lot of house shows against any Raymond stereo, and that's leading up to eighty JV ELS rematch on pay per view, which of course, is the great American bash June twenty-seventh on may twentieth. Guerrero, come out and brag about leaving Bradshaw. Empty-handed on Sunday. And he shows off a bloody Bradshaw. Cowboy hat, and he said he'd grant branch. Owlry? Mass tonight because he wanted another piece of him and Bradshaw came out and said, he's not a gambling, man. Because gambling is for lazy simple minded people who want an easy pay off. And he didn't make his fame by gambling. So instead, he demanded that Guerrero hand him the bell. He earned for winning the, Hugh and Kurt angle came out and set up another Matt so again Bradshaw and the Dudley's taken on Ramos stereo RV. The Eddie Guerrero, legal fifteen minutes and grill doesn't come out right away. But visually. He does. And he collapses onto nowhere in the ref made a fast three count after Bradshaw. Went for the cover after the collapse and way killer would report the grill had been suffering from a mild case of anemia, which was related to his blood loss at judgment day. Which is while they booked that angle that way, what can you tell me about the angle of any just collapsing so closely after all the blood loss clearly had everybody concerned. Sure we did. And we use to our advantage. And that's why we did it similar to the Shawn Michaels. Getting would he got beat up by the marines or whatever happened in using that with Owen Hart? It was the same same thinking. Here was people at seeing they'd actually seen the damage in phys Calvi, Eddy Guerrero had been through. They would understand it if he just collapsed in the middle of match, and that's what we did. Let's talk about what happened the next week. What's I can't believe is really thing Saturday night, Munich, Germany and branch shawl has managed to offend the German patrons by imitating Adolph Hitler salute several times before during his match. And of course, the gesture was meant to be an extension of the racist. Character he plays in the US. But in Germany such references to shameful era of their past or not only inappropriate in an entertainment setting, but illegal and w management did not start branch to make these gestures. And he was scolded for his actions afterwards told not to do them the next night, a torturer from Germany rope weighed I don't know how stupid WB, but this is the worst thing you can do in Germany, it is forbidden by law, and you can go to jail for it. Another rider would say JBL did the actions during the main event of the show, and he did as I remember five or six times with the Nazi. Walk and Heil Hitler sign. Those actions have shocked all of wrestling fans in Germany JBL, should entertain the German fans, but what he did is unforgivable. Bradshaw is smiling as he's imitating Hitler and part of the irony of branch characters that while he preaches about how Great America is and rips on the culture of other races, his ignorance of the complexity of issues and insensitivity to people different from him confirms the stereotype of Americans that many Europeans. Have this is all directly from the torch WW management is apparently an uproar over his actions. And officially they're aware that he did it out of ignorance, not maliciousness or any intent to create a major controversy. One colleague told Wade ranchos not a racist in real life. But he's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is and lacks any sense of culture or commonsense. Another wrestler said Rancho has made a lot of enemies in wrestling over the years with his bullying and beating the shit on a young guy in the ring over the years. And this is just what does enemies were waiting for something to sink him. Vince isn't going to take the hit for him on this one. And there was even speculation that maybe CNBC my drop him based on the controversy. You were there you weren't there at the tour, but you're certainly there when the call comes. JV going in business for himself. What is Vince think of the reaction? What's the heat? What's what's everybody thinking? Yeah. Job did go to business for himself. And it's from John spend a lot of time over in Germany working for auto von's. And is my understanding that the the heels there had done it for years to get heat and. There's a difference. I think maybe from a German doing it than an American doing it. I don't know. I don't think it works with your German American Mexican Irish. And I don't think it really matters. It's tasteless to do in that country Seselj to do period. So John was trying to get he that's what he was trying to do. And it was a poor choice of tactics to get heat and landed his ass in hot water. So I it was it was his decision. He did it, and it got national attention from you know, folks that game he didn't have an internet back when people were doing it and everything else you didn't have cell phones at recorded shit all over the place, so different time different place. And now I had to be accountable for his actions. And I think that losing the CNBC deal which. They let him go over it. Yes. People had complained to CNBC about it. And it was that was a heavy hit for him. Yeah. Let's just mentioned that on the June nineteenth torch Keller would write that CNBC. The financial news cable network recently hired branch hallway from Fox News to host his own weekly show fired him last Tuesday in response to his imitation of the well-known hail Hitler gestures during a wrestling match. Germany the previous weekend a CNBC spokesman called his behavior. Offensive and inappropriate and said the network no longer wanted to be associated with him on Tuesday morning before the CNBC firing was made public WW Pala jobs for branch house behavior, stating and Tori, and the story at the top of the headlines listing WWE and John les field, deeply regret, Mr. les fields actions in the ring and our event, Munich and apologize. If it has affected or upset our fans, Mr. learfield has been rep. Fermented for his actions. The apology though is removed from the website by noon that day and no explanation was given for the prompt removal of the apology and WBZ sources say Vincent man felt the controversy have been blown out of proportion and believed his being fired from CNBC was punishment enough allegedly. It's a six figure gig and Bradshaw remain slated headline. The great American bash against eighty Guerrero, although plans for him to carry this feud against girl all wet summer, slam may have now changed more so due to concern over the buyer rate than the judge the Mario judgment day rather than the Germany incident. So was there discussion Steph feel something that Vince might say oh fuck we got a fire him. I mean, we've seen like Brian. Daniel Bryan was fired years ago for choking Justin Roberts with his ta. So we've seen moments where gosh just make a mistake in the fired because it's just the hot. Button issue in the country, or whatever and and WBZ trying to do they'll see why? So they fire the guy almost with an understanding that this is a forever. Just what we've gotta do for PR right now that ever cross anybody's mind here. I don't know if it did or not. Yeah. I was in strictly creative at this time. So those didn't come across my desk and. I really don't know John thought that he would be fired in it was a big blow for the MSNBC that was a major hit for him. Sometimes you do stupid shit. And you gotta pay the consequences in that. This is a perfect example of that lay failed explained that an interview with Washington Post. I'm a bad guy. It's talking about WB TV supposed to incite the crown. I've done it for decades. I really didn't think anything of it talking about the Nazi salute. I know how bad it is. I've lived there of been seeing those places where they exterminated millions of Jews the line between me and my character. That's like saying Anthony Hopkins really enjoys cannibalism. What do you make of the explanation here? I know that, you know, we've talked about this before where we are you it's entertainment, but I say, well, it's a little different because nobody approaches Anthony Hopkins in real life and talks to him as if he's Hannibal Lecter, but people do approach John as if he's Jamie hill. Well, again, but he is an entertainer. He's playing a character, sir. And in that is it is the same thing. But sometimes it's hard for people to draw the line with wrestling. We get paid in with both with both sides and unfair. Not just regardless this day and age, you can't do those things. Hey defended on Howard Stern wants as well is the June eighteenth interview on Howard Stern e said make fun of everybody. I can he described his character as a cross between JR Ewing, Pat, Buchanan, and David Duke, and he compared his role as a wrestler to that of an actor in a movie that's like saying Anthony Hopkins as culpable for being Hannibal Lecter any blamed has being fired on CNBC, quote on some little guy that had a pro. Wrestling website emailed, the network. And he says, of course, he's not at all in favor of the actions of Nasi, Germany, and that sort of it. Let's talk about great American bash June twenty seventh two thousand four branch house going to beat Eddie Guerrero in a bull rope match in twenty one minutes and eleven seconds to capture the WWE title. So nice bumps some solid intensity. Three and a quarter stars has what Wade gave it. It is pretty interesting that it looks like you're, you know, hey, I might be getting fired fast forward two weeks. Nope. You're the champ. Well, we had that plan to long, and it was you know, this that great American bash. Oh, God, it was just a battle in and of itself, and we'd had a finish that we'd run by vets approved it Vince wasn't there. So we were doing everything by phone at that point. And everybody had a different idea what the match should be. So Vince didn't really understand the dragging around touching all four corners with the borough match. And sometimes when you're not when it's not right in front of him to make a decision. He'll say, okay, I get that and visualize it, but then when it's in front of him, and it's going to happen in the next few hours. He'll he'll change things. This was one of those situations on remember that day dusty was at TNA invents Domingos called call dusty get a Finnish. He's done. Those bull rope things before. Right. And I actually did I did call dusty and ask for help. And dusty liked our finish. But it was it was just a combination of a lot of different shit. And I think by the end of that night. All I wanted to do was get on a plane and go home. It was just it was one of those nights that are trying blackout in my life. Because it was it was a challenge to say the least. JBL was very complimentary about eighty says eighty was the perfect character for JBL at the time. And he was such a popular character that it made all the difference, but eighty nine or really good friends any talked a lot about how eighty really helped him a lot of the promos as far as the content of what would get over with. The crown John is even quoted as saying any really took it personal in. He wanted my character to get over because it was failing miserably at the beginning. I'd been attacked team wrestler mid card guy for so long. The people weren't buying me as the main of an Eddie really took it personal that he could help make me those one of the main reasons that the J B O character succeeded. He also says that it was actually Eddie's idea to drop the title to him. Eighty six such great pride in being champion. Why do you think he was ready to help put it on John here because it was the right thing to do in Eddie also took it as a challenge. Can he get any needed people to work with? So any saw the deplete ital- rosters. Well in knew that he needed opponents he needed to build them. So he took that as a challenge, and it was a personal challenge from Vince, as well, you know, what can you do with John and any light John was bounded determined to get him over and make make him a big big opponent for him on July fifteenth smackdown JBL is going to beat any grow in cage match to retain Guerrero, hits a fraction flash off the top of the cage, which was pretty incredible. When he finally crawls over Mexico leverage abo, kicks out of instinct and L Grandlieu door ran out and prevented grow from escaping the cage, which gave JBL the chance the drop to the fore. I of course, after the match career inks off the master reveal the L Grandlieu door as actually Kurt angle. A week later Bradshaw. Say he's going to defend the title against rocky Balboa later in the show. He stood next to the rocky statue and promo and then he'd be an enhancement talent undertaker walks to the ring branch all the scared undertaker blocks Bradshaw, cheap shot attempt, and then choke slam announces that he says opponent for smackdown. Sorry for summer slam. August fifth branch house, ripping on the fans in Texas many calls out taker and a little person from dress as the undertaker JBL rips on verbally until the real undertaker comes out and Orlando Jordan turns he'll here by saving JBL from take taker and then take your jokes lambs the little person dressed as. Him as JBL Jordan fled. Chebbi up here a little undertaker. This is Larry. Yeah. It was only half dead. Is this Vince McMahon's idea feels like Vince McMahon idea? I honestly do not remember. I think it was combination of of John take kinda think you know, what what asshole. Ian. Thank can we do here. And we had never done a miniature taker before I really need to find that guy. I've got an idea I got a booking for him. Jordan comes JBL chief of staff, some would say, if you're recreating the million dollar man character in a way with JBL that maybe Jordan is JV yells Virgil. Thinking here. Now, we created entire staff in you know, the other thing that people kinda got lost on is while we've throw out JR Ewing. Also at the time a lot of the mannerisms a lot of the stuff was very presidential. We were we were mimicking a lot of the stuff from George Bush at the time in dressing like Bush in different things trying to. Without being political. But just try to steal some of those mannerisms and nuances throughout this whole promotion. JV L beat the undertaker and seventeen minutes and thirty eight seconds to retain the heavyweight title, Jordan. Of course is with JBL here. This is summer slam four the crowd is booing undertaker's offense and chanting Spanish table Spanish table of actually the big finish is not the Spanish table. Take her Rams JBL ended limo windshield and then slams in through the roof with a limo an interesting little visual here two and three quarter stars. What did you think of undertaker and JBL summer slam? Oh for I thought that they had a good match. I thought that it was it was fide. It's too big guys in it's kind of similar styles in a way. So maybe a little bit of clashes styles. But again served its purpose and did well. Wade Keller wrote the locker room tide seems to have turned against John Bradshaw. Lay field continuing to be the WWE champion wrestlers. Who recently justified us run as champion by pointing at how hard he works are now saying they don't have faith in him being a legitimate draw the widespread feeling in the locker rooms that the biggest reason JPL was given the title is that a creative team member. Bruce, Prichard lobbied for it Pritchard along with Johnny ace is one of the least popular people in the entire locker room. Yes, it's so bad that anyone who is seen as one of boys automatically developed tension with the other wrestlers, which makes plain what JBL falling out of favor. Well, you've always been a fucking hate Mactan. Have you not? What what I do? He'll mother fucker. So I mean, were you hearing this is your boy, that's why a champ? I mean, who's who's saying that that, you know, of I'm sure people are saying that that weren't in that spot that the wanted to be in that spot that felt that they should have been there that weren't. So I I don't know. I don't listen to that shit. Alrighty, there we go. What do you think about the comment that you're one of the least popular people in the entire locker? Well, you know, what is far as? Be one least popular people at least have a job in the business, and I've actually done something in the wrestling business. So. I don't really care in December. JBL added the bash to his cabinet, and that takes us to the Armageddon pay per view debut else going to defeat Booker T and undertaker anti Guerrero in a four way match to retain Wade. What's call it a solid four way match including some ladder spots. I gave it three and a quarter stars and heading into five. He's working on a house shows against big show. Royal rumble, two thousand five show would see Jamie. Oh, retain the title in a triple threat over Kurt angle and big show after he pinned Kurt with a clothesline from hell. The next month is the no way out pay per view with JBL defeating big show to retain the title in a barbed wire steel cage match fixtures. Going to choke slam. JBL off the top rope through the ring and then crawl out from under the ring winning the match by escape what a fucking genius finish. Who thought of that? That was Vincent, man. Finish man. That was one of those what if we start talking came up with that crazy shit. It's genius. I'm mean, really, it's amazing took someone this long to come up with but brilliant finish. But one of the things that I've enjoyed when he was feuding with big show. And he's got the cabinet. He had the lady and his cabinet's name. What was her name? Amy weber. So he's got Amy Weber. He's got arlando Jordan. He's got the Basham bashing. And they do deal almost like. They did like a tranquilizer dart to big show a hilarious piece of business for smackdown. God it was those were some fun times. And that was that was good shit. I always go back to the time that we wanted to do the would talk about big show to do the not the stun gun, but the laser the taser on big show and his like what does that feel? I can I'm mister big shot. I'm like fuck. I'll take it. So the cops set the the taser on the lowest setting hit me with it in. We had outstanding on a crash pad. I went down like ton of bricks fictious all I was like fuck that. Magar? But now those are some fun times. It was always interesting trying to come up with the next entertaining segment for John to do. Can we take you for charity? No, no. That will never fuck it happen again. That's cop common wants to subdue my ass. All they do is put their hand on the tasers. I'm going down. I mean this for charity, bro. I don't give a shit. I'll donate. That's funny. But it is around this time John CENA is named the number one contender. So they start working a lot of house show tag team matches against each other CENA, teaming with big show and JBL teaming with Orlando, Jordan. Of course, we're building to wrestlemainia twenty one which goes down, April third two thousand five and John CENA is going to become the world champion for the first time any beats JBL in the process, I guess is worth mentioning here that. Even though people look back at Johns times champion, and they're critical of this or that because you don't like the guy he's the longest reigning champion and over ten years at that point Hilda for two hundred eighty days. What did you think of the decision to have John CENA be the guy to beat him and was John cool with it? What can you tell us about that? Wrestlemania 21-match Sita was on the rise in it was going to be the crowning because. John JBL. This is what I love when people talk about them. They they say I hate him. I hate him all this stuff. Thank you. You supposed to hate him. And even the people that right the sheets and all that other stuff. And thank you for hating him. Thank you for embracing that character enough feeling that, you know, not getting the time or ever having the opportunity to know the human being behind the character. But thank you for hating him. Because that's just means that he did his job. We did our job. So to me that is the the greatest sign when the people that know, everything about everything are hooked in and have the same emotions that you're looking for everyone else to have and John hid had a great run with the championship had a shitload heat on him throughout in John sina. Now coming up was the right guy to knock him off. And that to me may John CENA. Let's talk about the April twenty eighth episode of smackdown defeats big show Booker T Kurt angle four wind limitation match and this earned him rematch for the WB title, but he's going to lose to John CENA at judgment day in an equipment. Let's fast forward a little bit too EC ws one night stand and this is not going to be comfortable for use while policy is in advance. But there's no way to tell the story without just telling the story JBL and other smackdown. Wrestlers come onto the balcony to watch the CW one night stand show, and this is in the middle show, the cut a promo course the biggest of which being from JBL during Paul Heyman's promo. He tells JBL that he's the he's only champion because triple h didn't wanna work on Tuesdays. And at the end of the show, there's a big brawl in the ring between EC w w guys and during it j. L legitimately muss up his face. And there's a lot of heat on JBL. After this way killer would ride the locker room sentiment seem decidedly anti JBL, quote, JBL za, dick, and he has a huge ego. A lot of people backstage enjoyed Paul putting him in his place during his promo and another AC w wrestler says what the fuck do you prove beating up Balu Meany and JBL accompanied by Orlando Jordan did step onto the bus after the event and told at large group of CW wrestlers that he loved the show and really appreciated. What they did some thought it was a gesture but other saw JBL trying to say face and any case JBL was consistent and saying the absolutely love the event, and it was his first e CW show ever. Before we talk about what happened. I want to read you what blew me wrote on his my space. It is two thousand five after all when this happens. It's no secret that Bradshaw. Never liked me for my first day in the to my last and maniac. Also shares that during the skirmish JBL is yelling at him about things being said about him on the internet and mainly claimed his unflattering words at all been part of the show. I mean, he said in recent years that he thinks he got heat because he was on a flight and sitting first class while the rest of the guys in the back, and he was told if it's ever happens again, give your seat to event and Meinie said, he honestly didn't know to do that. And he says he didn't know this punch was coming. But he saw JBL staring at him during the staredown. And he's two nights before at the hardcore. Homecoming he was hitting the head by saying man, and he had to get eight Staples in the back of his head. And he said the first time JBL hit him. He hit him, right? Where he out the Staples. So many turned around and JBL put a shirt over his head like a hockey pints and started throwing lava rounds Meinie says he tried to grab a headlock stop the punches. And they ended up getting separated says when they got backstage JBL came over and said that he was talking about him on the internet and Meany said he thinks abo was referring to when he was released in two thousand he called JBL bully JBL in an interview with WW dot com after that said the incident with Meinie had nothing to do with any old heat. I don't even know the guy couldn't care less about the fat little kid. On the July fourth smackdown. Meinie would pin. JBL after Batista interfered during the match Stevie Richards, hit JBL hard as a motherfucker in the head with a chair. And an interview afterwards. Richard said JBL had a coming. This is an incident that got a lot of attention online. And a lot of people thought the smack nans here shot was retribution. But boy what a fucking weird twisted web. This was you weren't there. You had the night off. But she certainly heard about it was the consensus that JBL just maybe drank too much in the balcony and let it go to four or what's what's what's the thinking in the office. Well, not only was that out there that night. It wasn't there for the subsequent TV's afterwards. So I'd had that whole week off. So by the time that I even got back. It was a non issue everything kind of blown over but the scuttle, but I guess the rumor and innuendo was basically they got in there. John got hit from behind turn around thought Meniat sucker punched him. So he fucking went after Meany how any of that happened. Don't know don't care. It was brutal after saying Mienies gashes afterwards. And apparently had been busted open by San man, a couple of days before and had a nice fresh wound there as well. So not cool in any way. You look at it. And it just it ain't fucking ballet. But I do remember seeing the chair shot like I n even going back to this day. I think I saw that that whole fight scene with JBL and Meany maybe one time just in. In watching the show over and I do remember the chair shot with Manian. I remember John coming back, and and be totally cool with it like, okay next, but shit happens. I think that the the median everybody else would blow more out of proportion than the participants will and I think J L Mesnier cool to this day. But again, misunderstandings, people say shit do shit and should happen. Sometimes man, it's life. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm glad that you know, everybody's on good terms now, and everybody's sort of kissed and made up. But wouldn't you if you were on the outside, and you refine, and you're seeing all this and hearing all this wouldn't it be easy to understand sorta get with the narrative that? Maybe the stabile a bully in real life. Not if I don't know. Again, you know, having been part of you know, rumor innuendo perception in speculation things. It's just simply aren't true. When people will give their perception of me or safe things about me that have never met me that have never spent thirty seconds even saying Hello to me. Or maybe they did say Hello to me for five seconds. When I was in the middle of something else. Or maybe this was great one time. I I was at an appearance, and I just got word that my wife was rushed into the emergency room. And someone came up wanted to take a picture, and I took the picture and the guy says can you smile at least. Not in the mood to smile right now. And and it actually made it onto one of your friends dirt sheets about what an asshole I was when no one knew because I remembered the sich I remember the whole fucking deal because of the phone call that I was on that what I got off this guy, you know, came up so people don't know they've never taken the time to get to know him. And and they probably never will because of the lives that we live lives. John live. So I don't think that's fair lot of ties, but I can see where people based on the information that they have. Coming from these different people. Also, a lot of who haven't been around or who don't like him for whatever reason I could see where they can come to that conclusion. But it's not fair JBL starts putting accurate. Daviel sorts putting over the world champion Batista on a lot of house shows. And eventually they made a great American bash JBL gets a win. But the Q after Batista JBL where they still chair. But of course, the title won't change hands by the Hugh. So the summer slam gets a win. There. JBL loses another rematch with Petit STA on the September ninth episode of smackdown in Texas bull rope match we haven't talked about, but he's on the show in a while. How did JBL like working with Batista? They actually got banned. They have some damn good matches and actually got along because they were always trying to come up with something bigger. The next time and challenge themselves big time. I remember the the the spot on the steps that damn Batista bomb on the steps that really fucked up fields back pretty damn bad. But they enjoyed working with each other. Let's keep it moving here. And let's talk about the September sixteenth episode of smackdown. JBL actually loses to Ray mysterious. And then he hires Jillian hall to fix his career. We've talked about Jillian hall chat me up about her. And the. Beauty mark. We'll go with. Jillian hall came from Lovie w and she was an Lovie w original that really had BUSTER ass. All she wanted to do was be in the business and Vince was fascinated with the Austin powers the mole seeing where the guy had the mole and Austin powers kept looking at the mole and moult mount mole and all that shit. So. What do we have a character that that had this unsightly mole on their face? And and that's what people always want to draw attention to and in that was that was the idea of time with Jillian all shadow them. All and. Thank god. We finally got it off over. Remind everybody how you got it off over boogeyman ate it. No mercy. We see a JBL matched with Ray mysterious. JBL then starts a feud with boogeyman culminates in a match between the two the row rumble. Buggy man wins. Can't believe this is real at the next pay per view. B O beat Bobby Lashley. No way out. And then on the February twenty fourth episode of smackdown. This is in two thousand six AB L suffers a broken hand. The hands of Crispin Wong six man tag team match and the website announces that. He's undergone successful surgery and that sets up a rematch or JBL gets a win over Christmas. Wrestlemainia to win the first United States championship. So calm cool deal here. The April twenty first episode of smackdown. JBL fires Jillian hall due to a mistake. She made during the JBL been wa- steel cage match from the week before. Specifically, she did put together the appropriate celebration for him on may twenty third. Bobby Lashley wins the United States title. And then JBL goes to smackdown. GM teddy long telling long he wants a rematch with Ray mysterious for the world title. And if he loses he'll quit. And when he does lose a crowd at the arena began to sing very familiar song. Nah. Good. Tell us what's going on here. He's the injuries are just stacking up. And he goes it goes back to the the Batista bomb on the steps and that was the beginning of back injury. And it was a nagging back injury getting conflicting reports from different doctors at different times. So one doctor told you know, let's do a little treatment here contraction do some different things to give him time to heal. And that was that was thinking that point. And also there were doctors telling him you can never Russell again. Are you shouldn't Russell again? So you know, every fighter has one last fight in type thing, they don't wanna hear that. So you do what you have to do to to get in. But at that time that was the back injury. Well, he later said he didn't have a formal contract with long going into the match. So he had no intention of leaving smackdown. But it's a story line way to give him a chance to heal up. And then your TASR as the smackdown color commentator on the June sixteenth episode chat me up why has out wise JBL n whose idea was that. How did it come to be? I think that was was that during the time that has his contract was up that may have been it just that. Tasr contract was coming up and Henry nude and look for something for John to save. He could work in color commentator. I think that was it at the time. Let's keep it moving here. A new wanna talk about something that he wrote JBL said in a commentary on the street dot com. He was retiring from entering competition for good and his final column on the website JBL wrote. I've also come to believe him fi father, Tom a broken back suffered in a match in England compounded by herniated disk and bolts disc, finally made me realize mockery as professional wrestler was over. I since migrated to the color commentary position much in the way, Jesse Ventura did before me they did pop up every now and again for the main event of a house show over in Dublin Ireland late oh six and JBL cut a promo on long on the December twenty second episode of smackdown where he was cursing fans for cheering during the inferno match Armageddon. Five days earlier and a year later he would announce that he's going to resume his career in response to. Challenge. Made by Chris Jericho and on the December twenty first episode of JBL, he gave a farewell address from smackdown officials marking his return to raw on December thirty first and sometime at the beginning of two thousand eight as where the snot thickens as they say the Joey styles incident happened and this has been much written about much like the the blue mania incident. And I think it helps shape the narrative that exists for John field. I'll let you take it from here about what really happened with Joey styles. I wasn't there. I was not on the flight wasn't there? I have no fucking idea. I've heard all the rumor innuendo. She's like everybody else. But I I was not there have no idea they were on their way over to tribute with two troops and Jonah been fucking with him. And. Joey fire back. So that's that's literally all I know a lot of times on these long European trips in these overseas flights we hear stories about guys maybe indulging a little too, much and drugs or alcohol and things get out of control. And that's the reason we hear stories like the plane rod from hail and your opinion as this alcohol infused two guys fucking with each other. And they go buy me a little to four probably so again yell. I say that wasn't there have have no idea and both of them laughed it off. So I don't think there was anything more to it than just that. I can't tell you the number of times John's punch me in the mouth and vice versa. So another not out field. Well, yeah. We've heard your stories of. Him punching you in elevators and whatnot championship though. You mean either you didn't you weren't there? You had to be fucking with him. I mean, I've heard people call Joey style stocky Balboa because of this situation, and allegedly which you catch everybody up somewhere listeners don't know the rumor and innuendos that Joey styles, quote, unquote, knocked out JBL when JBL was bullying him allegedly. And and cross the line and said something about Joey's wife, and maybe Joey wasn't man enough or something like that. And it was maybe a little more colorful than that. And that was enough for Joey to ball, his fist and haul off and punch JBL now whether or not he was knocked out something a lot of people debate. But the idea that someone of Joey stature stood up to someone JBL stature not just hierarchy in the company, but actual physical size. A lot of people were really proud of and became sort of famous underground wrestling story have have the gist of that pretty much right? You know, it's funny. How you have more details never even been there and through the rumor innuendo out there. When I spoke with both lay field end, Joey and never ever did. Either. One of those mentioned those specifics that you just said about knocking them out about his wife or any of that shit. So that's why that the story has grown, and it's taken on a life of it self when you dress the people directly you don't hear any of that shit. So again, I would come in the meantime, you've been I know you, I know you have fucked with John about I believe me again, I'm gonna get Joey over here pure that happens. I mean, I've never seen it. But I just know your personality to know you will now. Don't act like I just planted that seat and your head. Well, sorry about that John. If you're listening Davie ill. We'll go on a face Jerko at the Royal rumble tall ratchet rashy shit for this show. That's for sure. Yeah. Both of our Twitter's will blow up and our text messages, even more. So. JBL wins by the Hugh after Jericho hit him with a chair on the February eighteenth edition of raw JBL interferes in the schedule cage match between Mr McMahon and his storyline. Illegitimate son horns Fogle, that's the thing after Vince whipped horn swogger with Bill also thing JBL attacked Finlay from behind and handcuffed him to the top rope. And after McMahon left the ring JBL proceeded to beat horns Hogle against the size of the cage and Jamie, a later revealed van that horned swat will was Finley son, not McMahon's and that set up a match between JBL and Finley wrestlemainia twenty four which was the Belfast brawl and JV Owen tell me about this. This is hilarious. Well when Vince got into it. He just didn't feel it was really gonna work with fit, and John J b l was begging to work with fit Finlay. They had worked. -gether in Germany and had a lot of respect for one another. So John was like, please give me fit. I'll show you what he can do. And he did and they opened up wrestlemainia and tore the frigate house down. I thought it was one of the best matches. I've ever seen John have and made fit even more. So and it was. Silly storyline that we finally got a match out of and could get the hill out of it. Yeah. I see that backlash two thousand eight JBL and a fatal four way for Randy Ordonez WB title JBL eliminated by John CENA and that restarts. The old sane feud from a few years earlier seen a beats JBL judgment day. And then one night stand in a first blood match, which you know, had everybody fired up JBL in a one night stand show for the next few months. He's working house shows and various Rawls not really in a significant storyline. He briefly starts a feud with C and punk for the world title and on the August eleventh edition of raw JBL challenges. Punk to a contest punk would not be able to win which is revealed to be of course, an alcohol drinking contest where he challenged Faulk. Drink a shot of Jack Daniels to prove he would do. Anything remain champion and pump refused not wanting to risk compromising his beliefs and the drink jovial face and that led to a match some. Slam and of course, punk one with the go to sleep and you onto leaving a few months later, but JBL will still in a featured role when left after you left. He'd be Siham punk for the intercontinental title to become the tenth grand slam champion and the twelfth triple crown champion. He held the title for one month losing the intercontinental title, a wrestlemainia twenty-five against Ray mysterious and twenty one seconds. And after the match JBL grabbed the microphone and said, I quit the next day. He announced his retirement on his WWE universe blog. An interesting way to into career. You know, you you finally round out all the ships. You've done it all now grand slam champion, and you're going to go work one of your buddies. One of your close friends who was with you. When you first got over as a single star and a champion, the intercontinental title him, and you're going to do it wrestlemainia twenty-five, Ben if you're gonna go out go out with a bang. He did here. Did he not? Yeah. I did he did it on his terms and he wanted to put somebody over on the way out in. That's what you should do. So it was in my opinion. I don't think John ever should've come back from the back injury. And he did in Cadillac to this were. There was just there was no more he needed to retire. He needed to stop taking bumps and being in the ring. So it was just time to go at that point. I mean, this is a weird question. Ask you for like another the answer already JBL hall of Famer, absolutely. What's your favorite JBL match or moment? If to match for me, it's Eddie Guerrero in the bloody. When that you didn't like man that something else. I'll I'll never forget that man. Well, my favorite my favorite match is one that no one ever saw. And it was John had been camera shoot fighter bad ass. Motherfucker? Will toughest people live Ken shamrock was WWE in Bradshaw had been messing with Ken shamrock for awhile. Hey shooter. Boy, hey, shooter boy and got to the point where shamrock finally. When we're all out by the ring, you know, this in the afternoon, everybody's working out doing their stuff to our shamrocks is lay feel come on entering Bradshaw. Come on in the ring. I'm gonna lay here you can put any hold on me you want. And then they say go, we'll go. But you can you. I'm gonna lay here Maka you could put me in any hold you want. But me a position you want and get locked in. And then we'll go lay in shamrock late middle of the ring and lay field got in and kind of like, you know, kicked Adam a little bit and shamrock didn't flinch and move and John gets down and grabs an arm and tries something there, grabs leg, and he's looking around and after about a minute and a half just kind of walk around. You just looks. This. Hold. And we all just died because he just had clues ops are Mr. shamrock, I'm sorry. And then my other one was when Ken I mean, not Ken, but Steve Blackman and Bradshaw. Got in a fight it baggage. Claim one day were Bradshaw just been ribbon Blackman unmercifully where was somebody came by and they brushed Blackman from behind. He thought it was Bradshaw grabbing his ass, and it one and black men went over just started going going to town on Bradshaw and a Hannam both in like a broom closet because I had to find him, and I had to reprimand him and find him and us what the hell were you thinking, I suppose of you what the fuck are you thinking and Johnston mister Pritchard. He hit me eight times, fry even realized I was in a fi. And everybody started laughing they hugged and shook and everything was fine. But that's you know, you hear a lot of bullshit about John. The human being is is one of my best friends, and he's a member of my family, a love them to death. And he's always been great to my family. And I and. Just happy to call him friend. Yeah. Listen, I'll be honest. Hook line and sinker on all the stories. You know, I've read stories where allegedly he would you know, tape guys up or so guys up but stick stuff up their ass or even flush Justin Roberts passport down the toilet. Or you know, he tried to make fun of Joey styles wife for beat up blooming. I heard all this, and I had bone preconceived notion of who he was and then you've got to meet him. And he couldn't have been fucking nicer to me, and our judge people based on how the treatment family, and they he gave a lot of time to my daughter and a lot of time to my dad was super cool. So I've been John fan, even though that's not really popular say, but not have this weird rule of actually people how they treat me. And he's been cool to me. So in everyone should do that. Yeah. So rather than you know, go into it with a preconceived notion. I was just like, well, BRUCE'S friend will fucking see how this goes. But he was super cool. So now, we are friendly. I mean, maybe before this show airs he might not ever speak to make in that you like donkeys or whatever he does. We've got some rapid fire questions here from social media. We're going to run through these very quickly. Bruce. Are you ready ready? Wrestling was the note did you guys ever considered bringing back run to feud with John for the world title? We might have discussed it. But not seriously. It wasn't something that we really delved into. Slithered says JBL once wrestled a bear in Texas. Do you know where this barroom bear, bro? I know about it. It was dirty John's college days where he and his buddies got drunk and John got his ass. What by wrestling bear? Was that a working bear? Fact, John got his ass whooped, you'd think it was a shooting bear this might have been shooting, man. They got sheet bears. They got working bears. Do you know how that bear bait up Jameel? Bayer heard what JBL said about him on the internet. Let's right. Oh my gosh. Gerald wants to know how did the hate between Ellen Vince Russo start? I'll be honest. I have no idea what he's talking about. But I guess he doesn't like Jameel. I you know, what I don't know either other than Rousseau saying to JBL one time that nobody can take you seriously with that accent. And he didn't know what to do with them. Because people can't relate to him being from Texas. Interesting question here from Tim spears, what impacted the Bush presidency have on the JBL character. Well, we cover that in the show, and that I actually a lot. We would take a lot of the nuances and mannerisms. That President Bush would would do he would come out make a speech, for example, when when field wore the jacket he wore that was based on something that Bush was wearing at the time. So a little bit. Yes. Partout of. Tim's question is when Bradshaw becomes JBL. It's the first time he's not presented as a bad ass. How does vulnerability healthcare Akhter tremendously? Because if you just beat everybody up, how do I ever relate to your feel sorry for you? I is a baby face want somebody that I can help route onto win. And as a heel. I want to get his ass kicked. Wideband can jump asked the JV ever helping the boys out with their finances. Yes. Quite a few. Jamie wants to know which persona is more like the real outside of wrestling. John Charles life field, APA, Brancheau or JBL. They're both as close as you're going to get JBL probably a little bit more. So. But well, he's not running around with weird shit painted on his chest and real right, right? But I think, you know, the the real John les field is highly intelligent, very, intellectual brilliant mind for finances. Classic wrestling polls rights who would have won an shoot fi JBL her Bob Holly. Hollywood kill him. Sam get text on that want to Roger Horton wants to know was JV. Oh, really bully that we hear about whenever his name is mentioned. It's hard to believe that if he was some of the other wrestlers never put him in his place it again, I I don't I don't subscribe to that at all that he was a bully was he allowed mouth, and we'll abrupt and all that shit. Absolutely. But no. Nason wants to know who would JBL say was tougher him or Ron Simmons. Ron Simmons all day long twice on Sunday. TR to wants to know what kept John loyal to WWE. Why did we never see him TNA or anywhere else? Is ways brought up man. He's loyal guy. And that's just who he is. Colin wants to know JBL ever received heat from anyone for stiffening them with the clothesline from hell because that theme always looked brutal. I think the clothesline is really not that brutal. It looks brutal. Which is gin shows you how get a worker he is. But I don't know that anybody ever really complaining about it. You told us before the right way to take an ADT. What's the right way to close clothesline from hill? Oh. Abruptly? Brandin wants to know who were John's closest friends quote in the business, probably Ronson, Ron Simmons. Definitely. And then from there godfather taker out hope I throw myself in there, I'm glad you mentioned taker Jeff Watson at a JBL ever have to go to wrestler's court. JBL was officer wrestler scores. So he's like sergeant at arms the bailiff, right? Yeah. Okay. Amar Burton writes, we've all heard amongst the the hardy boys that Matt was the quote, unquote, brains of the operation terms of creative input indirection did the APA have that kind of dynamic, and if so who was in charge or ran lead on more creative elements. John was probably more creative. John would always defer to Ron. Garrett wants to know how much was real money. And how much was fake money? Wrestlemania twenty one where the money was coming down from the ceiling. All real money. Wait a minute wrestlemainia Twenty-one. Was that the Bradshaw bills Bradshaw? Bills is fake. But we did. Those were Bradshaw bills. So how much how much real money? Do you think you spent on your fake money? I have no idea when we when we drop money from from we always dropped real money. Lots of it. Except what his Bradshaw bills. Sure, Aaron Watson. This is fun question. What part do you think? John would say he enjoyed more has APA ruin with Ron Simmons or the J B O cabinet era APA air with Simmons. This is an interesting question from Jamie JBL, ever considered for an authority figure role seems like his personality would have been suited for a he'll GM. Yeah. We talked about it for time to time. But just never pulled the trigger on her Michael says, what was the reason we never got a JBL championship on Monday night, raw JBL was one. If not the top heel during his Ryan, why was he just kept on smackdown was just to help the younger talent like John CENA at the time timing more than anything and John was identified with the brand smackdown. So we kept him there. Well, here's the good news. The number of collisions involving train at a railway crossings down eighty three percent from its peak in the nineteen seventies. Here's the bad news. They're still more than two thousand incidents a year. Stop trains can't. And you can't stop something to wrestle, man. Nearly three hours here today. Looking forward to next week for shit you taking time out of your schedule today. Bruce, and I'm glad we're back in our studios this week. And we sound good is new. I'm looking forward to next week. And hope you are to join us next Friday and every Friday at noon and don't forget to get your tickets to see what is it least for now d- last forseeable something to wrestle. It's happening star cast too in Las Vegas it Sunday. It don't want to miss it. Bruce will be there. I'll be there. Well, pretty much everyone in wrestling will be there. You never know what you can expect. But you can join us live star cast dot com. Pick up your tickets, go bracelet. You'll get that show and two dozen others. If can't join us know, worry you can enjoy. Live an on demand in glorious HD on any smart device or apple TV or your computer or anywhere else star cast on fight. It's four days. Fifty nine bucks gets all that content with unlimited replace, and it'd be the first time one of our shows has been live streamed. Let's go be pretty fun. Bruce you nervous excited anxious. Scared scared. Well, I'm looking forward to it. Glad that you're going to be a part of looking forward to seeing everybody there if you haven't already check it out star cast dot com. S T A R C A S T dot com. He is at restricted. I am hey, it's Conor. And we are out of time. We'll see you next week right here on something to wrestle with Bruce pressure.

Justin hawk Bradshaw Morton John berry Wyndham Barry Windham Vince Japan Bradshaw Johns JBL John Ron Brad Bruce Caribbea Texas Vince Russo Blackjacks John Don John NFL football Jack Lanza
WKPWP - Keller interviews WWF & AWA announcer Ken Resnick: (2-6-15) Great vintage Heenan, Hogan, Piper, Monsoon, Vince McMahon stories, more

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

2:32:13 hr | 7 months ago

WKPWP - Keller interviews WWF & AWA announcer Ken Resnick: (2-6-15) Great vintage Heenan, Hogan, Piper, Monsoon, Vince McMahon stories, more

"If you'd like to hear the show without ads and plugs interrupting. There's one thing you can do right now to make that happened that has become a POW torch VIP member. He got about a dozen other podcast throughout the week that I host that our VIP exclusive and get the way Keller Potions and podcast during the week with the complex removed all on a separate feed exclusively for VIP members plus tons of other podcasts that are VIP exclusive access to our full archives of podcast. Dating back to two one thousand four which includes post paper around tables dating back to two thousand four. Also access to our full archives thousands of podcasts over fifteen hundred back issues of Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter that started at all at score website and more checkup full details at Peterloo torch. VIP Info Dot Com that's P. W. Torch Vip Info Vote Dot Com to get full details and then jump to our sign up form. It's mobile friendly desktop for late in two minutes you can be VIP member. She'll support for us and we'll give you a lot of returned including a streamlined. Listening experience on your iphone or android device with the ADS unplug removed. Go check it out torture. VIP Info Dot Com uh now pw torture and spreaker bring you the wade. Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for this week's interview. Classic where Wade killer interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers. We learned over the past week or two how different in pro wrestling might be in a couple of months if wwe shakes up the WWE network format. We already heard the news and are digesting the departures terms of WWe's co-presidents. We've got eighty W on the rise in a diverse mix of programming options with a bunch of different business plans in this industry right now the Nwea doing something very different than our which which is very different than a w back in the eighties in the territorial days in the early days as of the WWF there was a pretty similar approach. Although obviously Vincent McMahon junior as he was known was very aggressive in terms of of expanding nationally and doing doing pay per view events. But how shows were still the driver of everything what you saw on television was to help sell tickets to arenas and and to do that wrestlers had to intercut interviews in marathon sessions for each city customized interviews for every match and every city. That was coming up in the next month. Ken resnick today's guest. On the way killer pro podcast interview classic for Saturday February Beret. Eighth Two thousand twenty was there for two major promotions. The Awa replacing the legendary means in Oakland when Oakland jumped to the WWF and then he followed an Oakland footsteps and did interviews for the WWF and he has great stories to share. He talks about being being in that role of doing the interviews and the logistics of it the Preferential Treatment Hulk Hogan for instance got when it was his turn to do do interviews. He's got great stories on the road. Warriors Bobby the brain heenan Roddy Piper gorilla monsoon AWA CO promoter. Wally carve provoke. Who was just polaris stories of backstage ribs including Bobby Heenan and more? This is a really cool interview and I think you're going to really enjoy it if if you're a longtime fan who remembers that era It's GONNA add a ton of insight and and laughs and if you're a newer fan and just want to learn about what wrestling was like behind the scenes in another era in the nineteen eighties. This is a must-listen interview so enjoyed. It's over two hours of just a really entertaining and informative conversation in with former AWA and WWF announcer. Ken resnick one note earlier. This week on Tuesday we ran a special flashback interview with stone. Cold Steve Austin and that happened a week before this interview with. Ken resnick that normally. We drop classics on the weekend on this week. On wildcard Tuesday where we shake up the format. Sometimes it's mailbag sometimes interviews sometimes alive caller format. This week. It was a very special flashback interview. Marathon interview was stone stone. Cold Steve Austin. That also must listen. So if you didn't get a chance to listen to that yet on your podcast feed check it out. Scroll down a little bit. Download it and listen to that also all right so here we go. Thank you so much for your support and we will begin. The candidates are interview in three two one. Welcome to Coppee W torch live cast. I am Wade Keller editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter and P W TORCH DOT com. And I am welcoming you to today's addition of the P W torch is Friday February six two thousand fifteen and because it's Friday. We are Dr. I'm excited to announce that our guest today is a former Awa and WWF announcer. Ken resnick making his first appearance parents. On the program. You'll be joining us. Just a few seconds He is awaiting us on the switchboard. I do want to Get a little bit of housekeeping done. road warrior animal and just incredible guests of Pat McNeill two days ago on the POW torch live cast. If you did not hear that show yet you can check it out by going to. PW TORCHLIGHT CASTS DOT COM and Clicking on the show from Wednesday also yesterday James Caldwell hosted Solo and took your phone phone calls and commented on a very interesting week and professional wrestling especially with wwe and the developments at Fast Lane or four fast slane on did add a new VP feature. Today that I do WanNa make note of Whether you're a current VIP member or if you let your subscription lapsed for some reason this may be an incentive to come back. This was one one of the most popular requests. We had along with improving the audio quality of our shows and that was splitting all of our audio shows into categories. So that you can subscribe on your iphone android phone won't On a PODCAST APP or through. itunes US Just to a specific show so for instance we have some retro audio shows that maybe you haven't had a chance. Let's keep up on us if he had the way back. Playback with Pat McNeill Jim Valley or the pro wrestling spotlight. Radio shows that we are republishing from Nineteen Ninety one never before heard on the world wide web never before before online. We're converting cassette tapes recorded in the studio back in the early nineties converting them ten P. Three and featuring for the IP members that's a POW towards VIP exclusive exclusive. Those shows are not particularly dated. So maybe you're trying to keep up on all the new content the weed killer hotline Bruce Mitchell audio paper around tables and he fell behind on the spotlight like show. Well now there's an RSS feed specifically for our retro audio so every audio show category has its own arts subscribe to multiple ones and And it helps stay. Organized listened to the shows in maybe a more orderly fashion. So that's something we just launched earlier this afternoon and I know a lot of VIP members GonNa be excited about about that. So if your check that out all right let's now Shift with no further delay to our guest for the program former AWA and WWF announcer. Ken Resnick Ken. Welcome to POW towards life cast or thank you eight. It's good to talk to you again. My old friend. It is so good to talk to you again. I I Sawyer. But we did not have a chance to talk at the Eddie Sharkey Oh what was the was. It Eddie Shirk attribute night I'm trying to think of the name of it The uh-huh I think it was a lifetime achievement. That's it yes so I realize though when I got your email after I you know I was there and was very thrilled older to be a part of that tribute to Eddie well-deserved and I'd known Eddie you know back in the early eighties from my time in the Awa But I just crushed when you were there and we didn't get a chance to catch up I if I had known I certainly would have sought you out. Yeah we were like two feet from each other for a while L. and I was just talking to George. McCarthy and Mike Rosen and You were busy You know dealing with other stuff and then when the show was over after I got done talking to Cochabamba a few minutes I went looking for you and apparently but I'm really glad that you're on the show. Every every Sunday night catch wrestling night in America on W. Torch Daily Cast Dot com hosted by me. Pw Torch columnist. Greg Parks each week. I'll welcome co host from the torch family to discuss the shows and pro wrestling taking your calls emails. You can listen. Live most weeks beginning eight PM Eastern on Sunday nights with a wwe or impacts pay per view. We go on the air at the conclusion. Asian that pay per view you can listen live but of course the full show is available for download on demand anytime. Shortly after it airs visit Torch Daily Cast Dot COM and click the livestream linked to find the next scheduled live show link search. Pw Torch and apple podcasts or your podcast APP to subscribe wrestling night in America every Sunday. Pw Torch daily Dot Com. Doc I do believe that there's some people who are wondering who the heck you are and I do want to fuck you. You have to talk about I I I. I've heard that now I will say we've got some. We've got some emails in and We're GONNA get phone calls and they're plenty of people excited to talk to you today and ask questions But I I do for the way background because WWF the WWF wwe. They've gone through a lot of announcers over the years. You were there at a pivotal time and your face is going to start showing up more and more often. WWE Network Archives get added. But you got your start in pro wrestling in the AWA. Ken Do you mind. Just is giving a little bit of a background about how you ended up in the Awa and kind of work your way to The timeline of WWF. And I know we've got some stories about that. Vince McMahon job interview. Oh sure no I'll be glad to wait I was actually doing the sports on the six and ten o'clock news at the NBC affiliate in Rochester Minnesota. Although I kinda commuted still lived in the twin cities and in the mid eighties here in Minneapolis Saint Paul. There was a huge celebrity. Golf Tournament called Duff Celebrity Golf and tennis tournament and I mean they got so the the real a listers. One time they had the cash cast from hillstreet blues they had the cast from Mash so it was a national type celebrity tournament and I had been involved with it before I got started in television and they had an area at the tournament called celebrity corner where they would have someone you know. Bring up the the national celebrities onstage and interview them and talk to them so the crowd could listen and get to know. Oh them a little bit. I on a personal level and I was doing that one year and one of the guests we had was vern Donya on you and I did a thing with burn for about fifteen or twenty minutes and then saw him later that night in the clubhouse and you yeah we talked for a couple of minutes and he wanted to know a little my background and you know I told them and where I was working now and and that was it and about a week and a half later. I get a call at the television station. Rochester and the switchboard operators. Just going crazy. She goes. I don't know if this is true. But there's a man wants to talk to you and he says he's Verne Ganja and you know I took the call and realize it was vern and he said when are you going to be up in the city's next and I told him I was up all weekend. He said how about would. Would you like to have lunch on Saturday. which we did we spent some time and he said what would you think of coming to work for me? And that's how I ended ended up starting in the AWA I. How much of a wrestling fan were you at that point? What kind of experience you had with pro wrestling fan and in the level of interest that you convey I I mean I was a wrestling fan as I think you know you being from this area that that was the real heyday of the AWA? I mean in terms of the crusher and mad dog Rashawn blackjack Lanza Lanza Nick. Bach Winkle Bobby Heenan The the road warriors so I was a wrestling fan in that. When I was around on weekends I certainly would would watch all star wrestling on television and had gone to a few of the shows so I guess the easiest way to put it away? I was a fan I. I wasn't a fanatic. You know coming in you know I. I knew who the baby faces were. Who the heels were you know who are the big names? It's you know I. I certainly had name recognition and and facial recognition so. I wasn't coming into a ice cold but at the same time it was one hundred and eighty degrees from you know doing sports on the six ten o'clock news. Oh Oh Yeah I mean all that by road warrior. Hawk is quite different than sitting behind a desk or going to a local basketball game or or that kind of thing man. What commission exactly? Yes absolutely Oh I was just going to go to Scott passenger who Emailed and said he had a question but apparently I didn't get to in quite quick enough so i WanNa know our phone numbers. If you WANNA talk to. Ken resnick. The phone number is six four. Six seven two one nine eight two way that has six four four six seven two one nine eight two eight. I'm Ken when you when you signed with Awa Or started working for them you were. It was the midst midst of of a pretty big wrestling war. Gene Oakland in institution in the Awa especially in the Saint Paul Minneapolis area or aws based A Ah very popular figure and and and kind of the face of the company more than Joe Biden crusher. How did you were you aware of the pressure fresher face the day that you showed up in gene? Oakland wasn't there D Don't shoulders well to correct you. When I came same gene was still there and you know I was actually fulltime? I was working in the office as well so the plan was us for me to to. You know. Spend a couple of weeks which I did you know during the interviews just watching gene and then I started off doing the the smaller markets. Like if I remember the first interviews I did for were stationed in in Lacrosse Wisconsin. So Oh that was the plan that I was going to kind of be a backup and learn you know the I mean I knew television was fine in front of a camera. You know more than intimidated but to kind of learn that way so gene was still there for a few weeks and then all the sudden gene was just gone he left in. I was the guy so at that point. There was a lot of pressure and also so from the fact that the the wrestler's talent really didn't know me yet and there wasn't a trust built up And I was very lucky in that having worked in really work more closely with blackjack Lanza who also worked in the office. Jack Kid Kid be kind of told them. Hey this guy is okay you can trust him. Yeah he's not out to show you up he's out to put put you over so that part came came very quickly but I know in my mind I said to myself. I can't imagine what might have happened. Had I not been. They're not talking about myself but had gene just just up and left and someone have been throwing into that where you know just from the get go and I mean it was very difficult for me. Ah But I was lucky in that I was able to learn from the likes of Jack. Lanza Nick Back Winkle and Bobby Heenan and and I remember when it all happened sitting down with Jack and I never forgot the two best pieces of advice anyone ever gave me came from. I think it was Jack and Nick Bach Winkle together when we were talking Jack Acces. Let me give you tell you two things. You're following Gene Oakland. which is pretty big shoes to try and fill so be yourself be? Ken resnick. Dole's try and be gene Orland and the other a piece of advice which I never ever forgot he said to me you know what the best way to get yourself over in. This business is with with the boys and the fans and I said no tell me he said the best way to get yourself over is. Don't try and get yourself over uh-huh and those were the two things where wherever I went and even other shows that that I did you know years later I I never forgot. It always remembered those two things and when I was getting ready to tape whatever I was doing I always repeated those things in my mind right before we started searching for more great pro wrestling. Talk and join me. Jason Powell host him to flee weekly pro wrestling boone own podcast each week. He'll the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media members plus the pro wrestling boom podcast features long-form inform interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry subscribing team stitcher downcast and all your favorite secondary apps or visit us directly at POW boom dot dot com once again. That's W DOT com. What kind of reception did you get from The community when you became the face of the AWA and in and in the midst of all of this turmoil and it had I mean there had to be so much adrenaline win. Being part of the AWA at that point but also I sense maybe some sheltered a little shell shock at what the heck was going on in what used to be a rather protected territorial system. Yeah I I mean. I didn't have the shell shocked from that. Having just you know not been in the business certainly. I learned the history from spending time with with the guys but initially the the reaction was not overly negative but but not not overly positive. Because I think a lot of fans initially thought I was hired to replace Jean Gene that then I my hiring forced him out and I think the you know the wrestling. purists in those days as the weeks went on the the story got out the gene jumped and and you know when they saw him on WWF I think the fan reaction really went up because they realized you know I was not jeans replacement but thankfully I was there to pick it up when gene just laughed so I think as that became apparent you know I sense the real shift yes yes To give me a little bit of I did you by the way I should ask you. Have you read Larry. Nelson's book strangled you know I haven't In fact until he he passed and people on my facebook page. You know I've lost track of Larry and you know posted his passing and then one one of the questions. Someone asks me on my page was did I read. Larry Nelson's book until I didn't even know he wrote a book. Well you're in a lot got you know. I mean 'cause he was around you know he came in when you were when you were still there. So Larry had written about a lot of that era of the Awa and had fun anecdotes about about You know partying and Winnipeg. And he's got stories of of I wonder the anecdotes he had for. You is like knew what I think. If I remember right what steakhouses you were allowed to go to that. The company would pick up the TAB on and he talked about your kind of an expert on making sure you really good food on the On the road trips That ring a bell at all I it doesn't be On our trips wherever you wait you paid a I mean I. I think there may have been a little bit of embellishment there I remember you know telling Larry the good good places to go but the truth is it had nothing to do with reimbursement for food. Because there wasn't any so right right. Larry Larry He. I don't want to speak ill of those that are gone but I think there might have been a little embellishments humid on that one because to me the office did not reimbursed. Yes well that that was what I was. I was actually GONNA follow up with bad and talk about you. Know what what life was like on the road for you Because you know there's just there's not a lot of Documentation of that area was an era era. Where the business In this time period and the mid eighties was still very protected. And you didn't have a lot of people talking about how things operated behind the scenes and Larry Nelson Book Is. Is You know bobby. Heenan wrote a book and I mean there's been some insight into life on the road But Yeah Larry Nelson talked talked about you know his orientational ended Awa. And how you were there As somebody who was helping him and and at at criticizing Wade I knew. Oh Larry before he got into wrestling. Larry was a disc jockey here in town and we lived at the same apartment in complex. And so I I knew Larry a little bit before he started. So He's right in that in that we had because I mean we weren't close friends but you know we were friends. I would see him at the pool and you know we would talk so when he came in you know I kind of looked out for him and and and and gave him the land and I mean when we would go to Winnipeg the office arranged for hotel rooms and then you know other than you you know the arena was closed and you know there would be rides from fans and things like that but I would tell him. Here's a good place to go to eat And and you you were right in those days. It was so protected. You could go out as an announcer you know. I tried to always remain someone neutral. Obvious in the interviews. You know there. I better a poor light. The baby faces you know on during the interview I was more challenging to to the heels but yeah I mean you had to be careful with who you wrote with who you eight with. I mean I. It was very very different than than it is just today. Yeah back I remember thinking I I I. I saw the incident on the Internet. A A couple of weeks back in one of the raw tapings Triple H and Steph. Were doing their thing and around the ring and whatever triple h did really upset upset. A little boy started crying and and triple h went over and and I had him for that. You Know Kinda talk to the boy in a basically said Hey. We're just doing our thing here you know don't worry And I and I think that was great but I remember thinking to myself if he he would have done that back in the K.. FEHB era I am in. I can't imagine the amount of heat he would have gotten from the office in in probably the the other boys as well so it it. It's a one hundred eighty degrees from what it was back down because we you know very much protected it yeah. It seems like the obvious thing to do now for newer fans if you have been following wrestling long enough a child crying at the tactics tactics of A. He'll was considered a successful night for most pro history and oil have. It'd be seen as absurd that you would console the kid the heels should try to get him to cry more and if he hasn't beat his pants yet then keep trying. Yeah you're you're exactly right I give you a little inside. You'll get a kick out of this when I first started as bazaars it sounds. I'm working in the office I'm around. I'm seeing everything but on the interview day Verne. Try to K- FEHB me. Even though I was doing the interview would be like you know we do on. He didn't like it. A you know. Stop and the you know. We have the the setback then was just kind of a threefold wall and Verne who go around the wall you know with the baby face. Call the he'll around the wall from the other side. You could hear him talking and I literally used to sit there and go does. Does he think I'm that dumb. But I mean that's how you know and gradually stopped was. I've been smart enough but ah I mean that's how the business was protected in those days that even though you were working there it was your in. You were a part of a I television until you proved yourself and paid your dues. You weren't GonNa be really smartened up. Oh absolutely it's very different today. Yup Well I'll I'll pull. I pulled up the antidote hilarious book. I have no I 'cause Larry Nelson then Who who died? I think just last year if I if I have the date right What was quite the character and very heavy? Rain can way. That's absolutely true. And they had nothing to do with his involvement in wrestling. He was just close to character. Yes and I and I said at the time of his death. It was one of my big regrets that I did not seek him out sooner to do an interview on this show. I think he would have been a spectacular guest Such a personality and and it was a fun part of that. The era of Awa. This is the expert of his book. Larry was a heavy drinker and admitted that speaking ill we ought to date or yeah I mean Larry is very very forthcoming in this autobiography about. It's called stranglehold. I don't think it's still in print But it's my Larry Nelson and James R Jones owns and people can try to find it on Ebay or somewhere if it's not available in pre but here's this anecdote just to clarify what I was referring to earlier. Thirty six he said The the The Way Ken described actue. Wait that's not okay. His cans number two concern was food. Meal served at the hotel. Restaurant were paid for by the Awa and he intended entity nothing but elaborate steak dinners and I had done. Some research and found Winnipeg had a number of highly regarded restaurants. I mentioned this to Ken. Who's is grew wide as a puzzled expression spread across his face? I thought I'd lost my mind ten cents. If we were to go to another restaurant the check would be ours. Then we would have to pay at that boy so I I and I love words hard hitting topics. I what what I'm saying is that is completely fabricated fabricated because where we stayed in Winnipeg. It was called the Polo Park in. I don't even know if it exists anymore. And it it it was con- you know. They had a little coffee shop and it was connected to a huge bowling alley and you know they had what you would expect back from Bowling Alley Food and there were other places but I can tell you for a fact at the end of the state when guys check doubt if you put anything on your room other than you know the room and tax. Who's taking care of? You had to settle up your bill when I was wondering. 'cause he earned Ni- don't be a guy who who gave everybody a generous expense account. I know the way. It's it's absolutely absolutely false. I mean I remember telling and there were a couple. There was a great great. I can't remember the name a great Chinese place that was close to the hotel And I remember going there. One time for time I went was Larry Hannie Larry the asked and there was another. There was a couple of good steakhouse but that That he must have written that you know when he was in the midst of of having a thin cocktails because we were never reimbursed. I for food. Just didn't happen. He yes well. Larry's book is entertaining. But I would say that there were times. I was thinking that that one one was embellished And I certainly was a heavy set or anything where you know. Food food was was not a real high priority. In fact almost the opposite. Is I think most if you go out and have a a big meal in your system you tend to get a little tired or or complacent or or lazy. And when I was if I was doing the play by play or we had you know a lot of interviews to do I would purposely eat light because I and didn't want to you know feel tired or you know you have a great. You know huge meal. It's like you get on the board but I like math So that yeah that they're I don't know where we're where that came from but I I remember telling him good places to eat. There was a few places around the Polo Park to stay away from but trust me. There was no meal reimbursement involved in wall very good. Well let's go to our first phone. Call Ken Resnick is my guest on. Today's POW torchlight task former AWA announcer in the mid eighties and then eventually went to the WWF. been around some characters and I wanted to talk a little bit about Larry Nelson. We'll talk me included. He has yes. Well I if one third of what Larry said about his book is true. You're you're killing me that I'm I'm pretty. I'm pretty pretty boring now. Okay So we're going to have a wally Carbo. Bobby Heenan the road warriors. We're talking about McMahon. Lots of good stuff. I do want to get people on. Hold the chance wants to Ask questions to and Scott did callback. VIP member Scott a hold on. Let me Get the right switchboard. Here okay go ahead Scott. Thanks thanks caller back. What have you got for today? Hey wait hey can you guys tonight. Good Scott how are you. Where are you calling from? I'm calling from New Jersey. I mean well. Yeah T- member the Jersey Wade. You continue to put out such great information. Thank you for everything you do three. VIP members and for everyone wants everyone. I I just I. I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more of you on the wwe network with more AWAC for my question. Just how what was it like when you went wrong working the AWA WWF. What was the biggest thing that came out you like what was it like? Was it different worlds was I. I've read in the past that you've said the later wwf marketed some more details about the CIA switch over to when you went through WWF. And I'll just be listening the free response to guys. I appreciate everything I love the old days of. Ua about today. Well thank you got the difference were was day night In fact it may have been with you. Wade someone I I did. An interview A month or two after Sir and they kind of asked the same question Scott did to give them an an analogy and I said it was like if you woke up up one morning and you were. You know the starting right fielder for the Kenosha twins in Class A baseball and the next day you walk up and you were the starting center fielder for the New York Yankees The the the difference in in terms of formal production meetings and knowing exactly what we were going to do The the the marketing I mean in and WWF It's like everything we did was designed and had a purpose whether it was promoting promoting the next show trying to sell tickets or promoting merchandise or promoting an upcoming pay per view. I mean it it. The the organization and depth and preparedness was just amazing. I I learned so much about television and when I was doing you know the news I I did my own editing and everything but it was so exact a prime example when we did the Awa interviews you know somebody. It'd be a kind of a camera guy that would give you a wind up sign and you know it. It wasn't a hard and fast time but in those days in WWF WWF. They shot the matches. You know three weeks at a time in Poughkeepsie. New York or in Branford Ontario. And then and we would do the interviews. The week of the show the matches may have been shot. Television matches a couple of weeks before so there was an exact act hole in the show for the interview and we had It was great for me right under the camera was a huge countdown down clock where the interviews in generally we did three a show the first two were a minute and fifty one seconds. Because that's what the whole ones and if you went a minute fifty three or four minutes forty nine you had to Redo it. was that exact. And the second the third and final interview which was usually a two parter was two minutes and fifty four seconds but I mean everything was that exact and and in those days everything we did. It wasn't scripted. It was spontaneous was extemporaneous but whoever they you know interview was going to be with the talent you know we would talk for a minute and the one thing I would always ask is now. Do you have anything specific. You want to go over but I always said okay when we get down to it. Do you want to pay it off or do you want me to some of the guys like hulk always liked to take it out himself others. There's wanted me to so when we were standing there I would be cognizant of the Stop countdown clock and what I would do if I was going to pay it off or even and the other guy if I had the feeling they weren't you know they were really into it worked. I would just step on their foot lightly to remind them they would stop and let me pay it off so you know with will be back and right at one fifty four. That was just you know one of the the differences is but I mean Everything we did there was always a a an agent there to let you know. Here's what we're trying to focus on. It was just the the organization and you know I mean a lot of the criticism he gets but I don't think Vince gets the credit due. Do for just really the the taking the business into the next generation where I mean it was I was just the everything was so well thought out the the difference. It was just night and day. Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling. PODCASTS will come join me out for L.. Over in the progress Paradise Appeal Torch. VIP AS WE BOSC on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some the great matches and chose from around the world be it the US. Japan Europe or Mexico. There's always a place of restaurants passed in the Paradise to and we've done fun. Historical shows such as the we love ligers series celebrating glorious career of Thunder like I was there when shows where guests will join me me talk about a classic boat that they were in attendance for we love variety and you can expect lots of it at the press paradise detailed. PW TORCH VIP subscription information on a list of all VIP benefits is available at Peterborough torch. VIP Info Dot Com and yes all IP Alcazar compatible all with popular PODCAST APP on Iphone android devices or you can stream indirectly from our ad free. VIP Mobile Site C in the paradise. What were the circumstances of your jump from Awa to the WWF? How did how did that come about well you know? There's been a lot of rumors and what really happened. Don't want to get into the the the personal stuff but after the wrestle rock rumble the big show at the Metrodome. I I was done that that was it for me. And I told Mike Shields who worked in the office. It was kind of the producer that that was it. I was just just done And a day or two later Blackjack Lanza who is now then an agent for WWF. And Jack and I stayed very close in fact we just had breakfast a few months ago. He called to say you know not revealing any secrets. But how did this show what were some of the finishes. Yeah just want to hear about it because he was out of town so I told him we talked about. You know what went on and what the crowd was like and you know what it was like. It's a dome and you know. Just the the atmosphere and then he said you know anything else happened. I said no no not really I said well I quit but you know other than that. Nothing and he started laughing. You didn't believe me Jack. I'm I'm up. I am totally holy done. And he said what are you gonNA do. And before I got into television I was actually a district sales manager for Chrysler Corporation not a dealership but at the corporate level. And I already called the guys from Chrysler and we're GONNA meet Either the end of this week or next week. And hopefully we're going to go back to to price in the corporate world. But I'm just done and he said Hey. Look I'm going to be home day after tomorrow. I'll play when when I get home. You know don't do anything until that. No I'm not even seeing you know. Probably the first of the week so he called me when he got home. It was like you know a day or two later and and we talked and he said what. Are you doing for breakfast tomorrow and I said nothing. What's you know it'd be great to see a and you said great I'll pick up and I said you know what time and he goes six? Am and were coat and tie. And I'm like what are you out of your mind six. Am I said. Dad I love you but you know I'm not getting up for breakfast at six. AM he said. He said I'll pick you up. He said I gotTa pick you up at six. Because we're on the seven twenty to laguardia and I said you are so full all of it. He said Vince wants to see you. Jack do you really think I'm GonNa buy this rib. He said favorite hang up call. Northwest Airlines Airlines. Ask them if there's not a prepaid tickets for you and me. I'm at flight and there was and that's what Jack Pick me. Yep I flew out to New York the LIMO picked us both of us jackets and things he was doing in the office and I kind of went through A A- An interview process. I think I spent a little time with George Scott. who was the booker? I spent a little time with Pat. Patterson I think I spend a little time with Freddie blassie and I think everyone kind of blessed me up and then I finally went in and met with Vince but a lot of people thought and you know took I. I'm a were angry that I was another Guy Guy. That Vince hired away trying to destroy the Awa and that is absolutely not true. I had never had any contact with him. Talk Talk to him at all until I had left in very rapid within a couple of days but you know people have said. He hired Oakland Oakland away which he did but have said that he hired me away as well. And that's not true. When you met with Vincent Man Hey I assume you would never been around him before what ever you know? What kind of presence did he have? Compared to earn Ganja Verne was older burn was Of A previous generation of promoters but burn was there used to being one of the very very top power figures in the entire industry been sick man obviously very much by the time you worked for him. uh-huh compare the personalities and how they dealt with you on a personal level The the interview went about an hour and a half. Yeah I I spent with with Vince. he was very professional very straightforward Yeah having interviewed over the years and spent time in the corporate world It was obviously a two faceted interview in that he he wanted to know my knowledge of the business in the how I went about doing things and he also wanted to get to. Yeah no me personally before. He made a decision as to whether he wanted to to hire me. It was a very very I. It was a kind of interview you would expect For the most part for a corporate type interview I mean. Vince is a a very very Intelligence Guy And it was a very corporate for type interview it extensive Thorough on his part. You Know Vincent obviously watched tapes of me and and asked probative but not intrusive questions about me in and the business and then about me personally Salihi. You know my home life You know there was You know asked about You know what I'd do in my spare time what my hobbies are And memory serves you know. Ask questions about you know alcohol all By felt I had a problem with drugs or anything that I mean it. was you know a nose now. You can't get away with that but it was a very very professional probitive interview but My memory of it. There was never any question he asked that I felt it always out of bounds or made me uncomfortable now a pad from Atlanta. VIP member says. Hello Waiting Ken. I can't listen to the show live. Excuse me at this has been talked about. But did Vince McMahon and what can shave his moustache if so this seems odd considering. WWe Broadcasters Juno. Clint Howard Finkel. And Jesse Ventura all had mustaches. I think there's a story there can It was within the first five minutes of the interview. Vince said. Tell me about your moustache And I I was like I didn't really know what he was asking. I remember seeing any kind of laugh at it. Well it's it's Above above my lip below my nose kind of set it on my face. I didn't know and he wanted to know you know what made me decide to to grow it. How Long I've had it? You know whether I was passionate about it really liked it. I answered him and he said So. You know I I have to tell you he said from my standpoint I know we have people with them but he said I I hate facial hair and then he just Kinda stop and I said well if you're asking and if I would be willing to shave it which I think you are. If everything else was fine it would not be an obstacle and AH that was it never said a word and then you know. We talked for about another hour plus And then finally he just stop APP. Didn't see anything looked at me for thirty to forty five seconds opened a desk drawer. pull out a razor a can of shaving cream and says bathroom right through that door and I went in and shaved it and when I came back out and he goes. You just showed me something that when you say something you back it up and at that point you start we already talked you know money and that point he said you start Saturday in Detroit and now that's so bad shape and the and the interesting thing was you you citizens secretaries face when I walked out without her and the the interesting things When I called back back here when I was at the airport waiting to come home and my mother was absolutely thrilled? She never met Vince but she loved him because he hated my mustache And I had had it since my freshman year in college so she was just you know over the mood and that I had saved it but I saved it right INVINCI- office that's that's just great. I remember you telling me that story when I interviewed you. You know twenty years ago or one of my torture books and I remembered it and it's just it's one of those classic man stories you know. He's he's a quirky eccentric individual and he's used to getting his way and he has a different way of testing people and it was a test for you and then he wants you know and it's a big decision to hire somebody. Put Him on the Earth and the your appearance is part of it and if he if you want ponytail you might have asked you to cut the ponytail. Well and I think you're right and by the way just to let you know I remember that yearbook. It had a red cover. Ever with the Black loose-leaf yes you're right. I I think it was. Also you know I've refracted back on it a lot. I think it was also a way of finding out if I was really committed to wanting to be there. Yeah because they had recruited you and or in that position. You know it wasn't like you. You wrote to them to do whatever it takes to have a job. I mean there's people who have applied in that way invincible. Like all right. We recruited him. Let's make sure that he does want this. This is a this is a test and he probably wanted to make sure. You didn't have a weird birthmark there or something But how'd you look in other words Well I'd have been really hot if he had me you saving that. Sorry it's not GonNa work out. I I also know that you know obviously Jack Jack Lanza calls in till to let him know whether internally they had ever had any discussion about me I have no way of knowing but I'm sure he talked to to haul. Oh can you talk to Bobby Heenan as well. But that's not that's Whoever email I forget his name he was right? Shave it right right you know. He had a private bathroom all. Ah pull it out razors. Shaving cream bathrooms right through that door. Funny all right. Let's go to the phone call here by the way our guest today on the torch live test is Ken resnick former Awa and WWF announcer as noted at the top of the show the POW torch live test is brought to you daily by audible a leading provider of spoken audio information and entertainment. It is an Amazon company. And you can log in with your Amazon Password. You can listen to audiobooks whenever and wherever you want. Get a free book. When when you sign up for a free trial at audible trial dot com slash pro wrestling torch that is audible trial dot com slash pro wrestling torch all one word over one hundred fifty thousand titles to choose from including wrestling books? By Steve Austin lex Luger Dusty Rhodes Hogan Mick Foley and more or non wrestling topics famous authors. John Grisham Stephen King. Tom Clancy Dean Koontz. George Carlin Tina fey comedian. Mystery Writers science fiction writers nonfiction. Asian writers like Malcolm Clad. Well you WANNA quit smoking. The easy way to quit smoking by Alan Carr comes with my highest recommendation. I know so many people who have used his methods to quit smoking looking no tricks. Read the book you're done smoking. It's weird but it's cool. I'm learning foreign language also or download a book about the NFL NHL more go to audible trial dot dot com slash pro wrestling torch to claim your free audiobook. It is waiting for you right now. How did you? Ken Is that right. Oh just the master. But everyone's known that although it was and it was very informative when you first started you you I mentioned before he came on you know audible dot com. I thought it was something to do with peyton manning a very funny If you WANNA talk to Ken Ken resnick from. AWS that would be. The number is six four six seven two one nine eight two eight last last Friday. I had John Piermarini on the program. He was an ex. WWe creative team ever in two thousand nine two thousand ten. He was on the show for about ninety minutes or so talking. Actually for two full hours now that I think about it talking about a very big week and wwe with the royal rumble out. All the controversy with Roman reigns and the crowd reaction. The raw getting eating snow without having to do a studio show really informative a lot of behind the scenes notes from John. About helping took man operates. The dynamic triple agent Vince definitely worth checking that out. Go back a few weeks you'll get a Steve Austin Interview And and around that time also. Ta President Dixie Carter and one of the most heralded energy. We've done one of the best reaction I've gotten to interview in a very long time was with Macho man. Randy savage younger brother Lanny He was on the show. The week that Randy was announced is going in the hall of Fame Lanny Powerful introduced a lot of new information about how that came about what the timeline was why he softened his stance that he said Randy had which is randy didn't want it in the hall of fame unless Lanny and their father Angelo Powell also got admitted to the fame lanny talked about and I think pretty emotional. Wait why he made the decision that he did land very interesting and fun guest and I just are my twitter. Feed blew up with people saying the interview move them and it will I P again. That's PW torch dot com slash KGO VIP and you can have this show that you're listening to ABC free with the VIP exclusive after show added on as one of the perks rates. Start start at ten dollars a month or you can dive in for a year for ninety nine dollars back to the phones we go. Let's jump to the caller next caller with a question for Wade Keller or is. Ken resnick with my question as a fan. Now just real quick because I worked with with both lanny and and Randy and love La Granny Lanny when he did. His genius is Lannie on board with this hall of fame induction. Okay because okay. That's great right. You know he he was. He was torn. He had been on this show before and said emphatically that Randy had said to his father and him. He didn't WanNa go in unless his whole family went Konare fat. I knew so I I was ladies Oakland sarcastic. Yeah no I I mean I. I was wondering saying if this was done. In spite of those wishes. Orlandini was on board which I'm glad to hear he was and it was a tough decision. He he he went into more detail than I would be able to give justice to hear. Oh Iraq but but yeah he. He said that he That he in fact he gave his rationale for doing going going against Randy's wishes and then asked me way. Did I make the right decision. I mean He. He's still not you know I think he's comfortable with it but I obviously he has some feelings because he had held strong for a while so it is a fascinating interview and Lanny Really really opened up. I think more than he had before. Because you know it's a weight off his shoulders you know. There was a lot the pressure from fans who had perceived him as stopping something from happening that they wanted to happen. And you know he felt torn between Randy savage fans and what his brother had wished for and his rationale national. It's interesting for for making that change or that. That's good to know I like it. It it was a little testament to the business having been in I was still a fan. And Hey you can find out. So I'm I'm very glad that Randy was on board with it that at least the the wwe reached out to him before doing it. That's great absolutely. We're about to go to another commercial break. Why are you listening listening to commercial breaks? Why deal with these interruptions when you can become a VIP member support the weight? Keller pro wrestling podcasts. Way Teller progressing poll shows the torch daily casts in the entire team and everything that we do and get a ton of return for your membership by becoming a VIP member go to PW TORCH VIP Info Dot Com for full details. Thirty plus years of archives of podcasts Retro Radio Shows Over Sixteen hundred back issues of the progressing towards weekly newsletter for a fascinating march through our coverage of wrestling history and so much more including ad free versions of the podcast week post shows. NCW Torch daily cast and several exclusive VIP podcast just about every day dozens of VIP exclusive. PODCAST you're not hearing because you're not the VIP member so go VIP TORCH VIP INFO dot com subscribe to our VIP podcast feed and listen in a streamlined way with no interruptions to all of our podcasts. Again that's torture. VIP INFO DOT COM. Let's go to area code. Seven hundred seventy three. Please state your name and in the theater call from this border from Chicago. Boy thanks for calling. What have you got for today Well I'm I'm just I really gotta think way way quick. I'm sorry these interviews in all this new this stuff that we're getting you know the the different podcast in a way bringing interviews and the different stars get talked to so then I got to. I got to talk to animal yesterday. And it says awesome and my first question to Ken is Dame brand push what he thinks about that if he's a Li you was going on with Bryant and What what did you think about the the wrestler's there's new and old doing podcasts? You know and doing podcasts. Show in have you ever thought about doing one yourself. How much do you keep up on? Things today can You know I try and watch it WH- whenever I can I'm watching you know raw a little bit more now. Truth be told I on Monday nights during the fall. I'm a big. NFL Fan so a lot of people watching Monday night. Football and I didn't I didn't catch the the the first part of Boris's question so if you can give that to me but the the second part I mean I I think the podcast are great because it it gives people like myself but you know more important other wrestlers and talent a chance not only to to interact with the fans but more more importantly it gives the fans a little insight to what they're really like because for the most part they only get to see their characters on TV. And that's how they're perceived. So I mean I think they're great very good he he wanted. Have you followed the Daniel Bryan Saga the last couple of years at all. Oh Yeah I mean certainly you know that injury was very tough and I'm glad he was able all to come back I. I'm guessing what he was problem. What boroughs who was referring to is what's going on currently and even though I I didn't see the rumble itself you know? I saw the results and I. I guess I was a little surprised that he would that Daniel. I annual was in there for that short of time that evidently he was. But you know one thing that I'm guessing Wade you certainly understand and I certainly understand that from. WWE's standpoint as long as fans are really upset about something that means they care about it because in this this business if either they need to love something to death or hate something to death if you do something or your arrest or that they they really don't care you're done so from wwe standpoint. I'm sure at some point you know everyone was so upset about Roman reigns aides in continued to talk and watch and be outraged. It's they still care about the product. Yeah no it is. It's offense you don't hear from who just stopped watching watching. I think you have to be our alarmed by that. Said you know you want your fans to seem in step with your decisions more often than not or you have to be sure you know better and it's been an interesting couple of weeks here since the rumble and all the triple h was on Interviewed by Steve Austin on. WWE Network last Monday. And it just dropped on On Steve Austin Steve Austin Show unleashed on itunes. I think yesterday The dynamic of responding to the fans the way that wwe has is interesting using you know. Ken Said Hey Ken. You're triple H said to Steve Back in the day Steve if we were doing something when we were wrestling one city and it didn't work we changed the next night and try to make all working. That was happening now so it's a to go live. Yup what what has surprised me in. Eh Removing all the the the story line but what surprised me the most and I talked about it as I told you I had lunch yesterday with Nick. Nick Carson and George Shire who certainly great yeah But the biggest thing to me is if you think about and it it may change. But they were going to go with a main event for Wrestlemainia with two guys. That don't talk very well. I mean obviously they have Paul Heyman. Who Does the you know the majority of talking for Brock? But but Roman reigns is certainly not a great talker by any stretch and you know when fans around the the fans you know. Obviously if they have the wwe network which is available for. Oh no I'm sorry If they have that. But if you're talking about someone that's just thinking thinking about buying the pay per view you need the passion from those guys to convince people to buy the pay per view and that's that's the one thing that that surprised me going in that they had two guys. That are not great talkers. Oh I agree. And Roman reigns as lead baby face who has not formed that bond with the fans yet at a level level bat. You know Cogan did it in his time. And Steve Austin and Johnson and their own ways did also it's challenging to sell a main event with a baby face. That part of the fan base really likes. I mean Roman gets cheered when he's on the road heels but up against Brock Listener who fans respect the hell out of off In a big setting like Wrestlemainia if the feeling is we like Roman reigns headlining a house show against big show or we like Roman reigns in second or third from the top match but headlining headlining Wrestlemainia. And we're supposed to buy that. He can be brock the fans the way that they follow wrestling now. I mean they kind of I was on the BBC of all places on Sunday on a countdown show. They did about the top stories trending on the Internet the previous week and it's not a wrestling centric show and and the host of the show was was very curious about the The popularity of Roman reigns and the reaction. It really has The story taken on a life of its own and the hosted ask you know. W W trolling are they looking to get this reaction and and I definitely not I mean. WWe wanted Roman reigns to be popular to be over with or and and they have some work to do in order to get there You know that that's one one of the things that I said back in in how the business has changed that you know when Gene Oakland or or myself did the interviews. If you were working with a either a baby face or heel that was getting a push but wasn't a great talker. It was our responsibility to help them with the interviews. Isn't there was little things you could do with some of the that. That wasn't a good talker. You know but the the myself or gene or anyone else you know back back in the day when when you know the interviews other than as opposed to what kind of a talking head. It's just the talent themselves there were or a lot of things you could do to help those guys you know. Get over and and connect with the fans and I think that's one thing and that's kind of got lost that you know I. It's an art that that isn't there. You know for example if you who knows an interviewer if I was working with a baby face it was getting a push and wasn't a great talker. And you know you could see them kind of foaming coming around. You could interrupt and go you know. I know you know whoever you know. They're going to be facing the match. You're talking about some of the things he's done. I can see how upset you are in certain. Every fan can understand why it's so hard to talk about because it's so emotion. I mean you could do those things things to to to give the guy a chance and then ask him another question about it that he could focus on and the same time for example. If you were working with a he'll hill who wasn't a great talker. You know you could let them donated his home and you know I didn't rooms you know you say you know. Tell me how great. You're not worried about this. But you seem to be very fostered third when you think about your opponent those things that you could do to to Kinda save but put the number in connect with them with the fans and that doesn't happen it anymore. They they're kind of working without a net well and I would think to what you just described. I is is why hi there were. People standing there holding microphones. I think renee young is very good at what she does. She's in a different environment now. Where there's so much scripting promos and you know not just north? I know you can really tell. And in that conversation that you just described instigating with talent had to take them off offense a little bit and that's part of the problem Roman reigns he's been so scripted. There's not that conversational aspects that fans bond with and for you as an interviewer. It is a skillset for when someone's struggling for what to say to make them comfortable to know what they probably should be saying but aren't and then to draw out of them. I liked that better than having a guy in the back memorizing lines and somebody else wrote for him. I think having you pull it out of him as an the interviewer makes for a more immersive organic realistic connection with the viewer than somebody just reciting memorize lines. That really. Aren't there words. I I think you're exactly right and one other aspect I mean these guys are not professionally trained actors and I think a wad of the emotion and passion from them is taken out because they're out there trying so so hundred to remember what they're supposed to say that they don't have the excitement in it because they're thinking about what not how they're supposed to say hey it that's right and yeah I mean just you learned in junior high school and speeches bullet points on notecards. Don't just read word for word. People don't connect there's something something about human nature that can tell when someone's saying words they memorize versus saying them as they think and and I it's one of the key I mean growing up in Awa it was an interview territory. You know the TV show was based around getting personalities. Over on that. Do you have any particular Group wrestlers who you feel who take pride in because you feel that you brought them to a higher level because they might have struggled otherwise without you doing exactly what you described you have some specific. Instances are arrested that come to mind You know not not really and the only reason I say that is I never really thought about it in those terms. Yeah so you know nobody specifically comes to to mine nine because I always viewed my job you know even if it was hulk Hogan one of the greatest talkers ever that that it was always my job to make whatever they did to try and get a little better and certainly when when hulk or anyone else that was great the Macho Man Elizabeth. Because we've been talking about them. I always knew. And they were on a roll and great. It was my job to hold the MIC and and get out of the way and conversely you know but there's no one that that I take back and say you know. I made them better than they were. Because I I I never thought about it or look at it. You know in those terms but yeah there were like in in the the the Awa I knew if I was going to do an interview with crusher or mad dog that I I didn't have to worry they were so great depending upon how it went either I would play off them or they would play off me that but I never over the you know I i. I'm sure there were there were instances but I just never thought about it that way so I can't mess one question. I can't we'll give you an answer to because I never really thought about it I know from years of watching Karsh on Saturday night at ringside which was a back in the late eighties early nineties. He's there were wrestling show's in syndication that that stations would get that were not affiliated with say NBC ABC and those types and they would put these large wrestling blocks up of In there weren't a lot of them there were some of them and make harsh hosted one in Minnesota Minneapolis Saint Paul area and he would do segments in between the wrestling shows where there would normally commercials with local talent. You interviewed me on there when I was in the early stages of doing the pros and torch newsletter Any would interview local wrestlers. Who did not have the type type of experience that you were used to encountering when you interview people from the Awa or WWF? who had to have a certain level of skill and experience to get to that stage and MIC? Was this great at that. You know I mean there's so many instances where he'd be interviewing somebody and they give a short answer and and make would respond and go well. I think what you're saying is this. Can you tell me a little a bit more about that. And and the dynamic and you could see this guy who wasn't comfortable talking on camera feeding off of that energy that in that comfort level that make provided fight it and I think people take that for granted there have been some bad interviewers in the wwe over in recent years and Rene Young stands out because of how good she is at her job today and I call her out a lot in a good way for being somebody who would have fit in your era Ken for standing there and really enhancing enhancing the wrestlers The way that the good interviewers who were on the national stage like you were did back in those days I think so and you know I mean there are some you know announcers I see on on some of the different shows today and I don't. I'm not going to get specific in in criticized besides but I'm sure you know who I mean. There are some that even as announcers they just don't seem to have the passion For what they're doing. I know wh when I did it before I would start a a day of interviews or was going to be calling matches. Whatever I I would have to You know almost like an actor and not that I'm saying I was an actor but to get the mindset. Yeah this is absolutely the most important thing that's going to happen in the world. These guys are going to try Brian K and you would put that over and you have to go there and I mean I remember you know so many times. I think it was one of my catch phrases about talking about a huge math. Ah whatever you do. Don't you dare miss it. You'll be you know and I don't see that from from some people today and maybe it's A result of the fact that you know it's no longer a business but a lot of times I I just don't see the passion from you know some people and it's like you know everything is and I'm one sometimes. You know I'll sit back now and I'll say to myself you know what on my best day in his worst day I wasn't that good but at the same time there are some I say to myself on my worst day in his best day I was better than that. Yup Yup. I know some of you are new to the show. Because of the Jon Moxley interview going viral so welcome. Thanks for checking US out beyond the two part Jon Moxley Oxley interview here on the weight. Keller pro wrestling podcast. I do want to note that you're missing out on half of our free shows that I host during the week if you don't subscribe to the Wade. Keller pro wrestling poll. Oh shows that's a separate feed this. Show the PODCASTS are a blue feed consists of flake ship our interview shows in our mailbag shows interview classics. The way pursing grossing post shows have a red logo otherwise that looks just the same face. Keller on big font subscribe to that also and you can get the post ratio and the Post smackdown show this fall the post host. Aws Show and then also every weekend are five years. Ago Flashback to the rapport show hosted with Jason Powell on Tuesday afternoons reviewing raw and talking about out of their current events and wrestling with life. Callers correspondence and answering e mail questions so just search Wade Keller in your podcast APP. You'll see both the blue logo in the red logo pop up if you haven't yet subscribed to this one The Blue Logo show but also subscribe to the Red Logo. Show the weed killer pro wrestling Po. Show thanks a lot all right. Let's style of another caller here on the live portion of the program. We'll go to Eric. Owed eight one three eight one three. Please state your name and where you're calling from. Go ahead eight one three. You are on live with. Ken resnick just in case is delay giving them the chance to Dancer okay It went through droplets. Go to eight six two eight six to please. State your name and where you're calling from. Hi Lou from North New Jersey. Hey Katelyn good here for you again. What do you got for resnick today? Okay my my first question for can is what did deficiencies do you see in current. WWE Announcers how would you improve them. If you were say producing announcers. There's today well I. I'm not going to get specific in criticized any particular an announcer. But one thing I have a whether you like his style don't like his style. I have a huge amount of of sympathy for Michael Cole. Because not only does he have to call the matches. I mean there are so many plugs and promos that he has to make sure he works in to his commentary. And I'm sure that's all laid out. She see you have to get this and you have to get this and you have to get this in you know back in the day when we did interviews or when I did play by play or color when we were calling a match all we had to worry about was the match and I mean they have so many different things that they have to to hit and I certainly understand from a production standpoint but one of the things is I wish they could reduce that a little bit because I think it would allow every announcer to concentrate more on the moment as opposed to what they're supposed to be saying it'd be immersed in the product and have that sense of you talked about right before Colin came about selling people on the idea that giving them a story story to believe in. which is? I believe this is important. You need to be there. I think you're I think you're afraid that you're known for Kenneth. Believe you me believe you meet. This is the place you need to be something along those lines you would. You would endorse things and vouch for them. And you had that connection with viewers that would say this is important. You need to go see this event and and sometimes you juice get the get the sense candy and ulcers would be embarrassed to actually hard sell the product because people might think they think it's real not understanding that's their job and everybody the kind of understands it I remember and you'll get a This is in column if he's still on the line one of my other tag phrases you know when when I would talk about the main event and whatever city was you know I I'm telling you fan run. Don't Walk to the box office was there you can still get at. Ah You know so many interviews you get united and pass it and I'm trying to think of the talent was and I mean they were not really mad but just you know pissing pissed me. It was a great interview and at the end. I said walk. Don't run the we had to Redo it and you know I'm just thinking you know who is one of the agents but thankfully somebody got it because then taking would not have been happy very funny I hi college you have another topic for Kennedy. Sure my second topic for kings. Can you please tell me you about experience working for Paul out. I mean forgotten American risks. Believe Leave Federation from most in I I really enjoyed it all and I stayed friends Aw after and and we're in touch in fact you know Paul just passed a few months ago and and I had actually called him and talk out to him on his birthday and he passed a about a week later of found out after the fact that just had a he had had some some health issues issues and some strokes but just had a heart attack and and was gone so didn't suffer but Paul was a huge huge wrestling fan. That when a company he worked for soul came in to a lot of money It was great and the best this part for me Colin living in Minnesota. We did all the taping down in Tampa so you can only imagine how thrilled I was. Every month to be heading to Tampa. It was awesome. Awesome but Paul was a great guy It was wonderful getting a chance to Work with Sargent Slaughter and Tito who I knew and we're all friends or Kinda. The bookers The road warriors were there for a while it was a great product And I think you know in those days in Omaha sleep you know I. It was so costly to the syndicate from. I think that's why it it didn't last. They ran out of money before it became profitable but I will also say say to my dying day. I will never understand the thought process behind the round system. I never got yes yes. He's trying to differentiate. I did a lengthy torch. Talk with him Around the time. He launched the company people. If they're interested in you know different start-up companies Pro Wrestling Torch last twenty seven years. Here's is covered a lot of them all of them. That had the ambitions that Paul did With the American Wrestling Federation so people can track down our torch. Talk with Paul during the what. Yeah that can that that. Aws has business In the mid nineties ninety four would have been my guests. But yeah and I mean you know as you know weighed hidden in calling obviously having watched it I mean for a start up. They had some pretty great talent. Absolutely it was. It wasn't a transition in the business before the Monday night war and and you know you know the national cable expansion but a consolidation of the territories and anybody with money You Know Joe. Paterno tried it with the Global Wrestling Federation and tried to make a go of it with. Espn Clarence is there was a lot of reshuffling of no names WHO wanted to be part of you know national companies and Paul gave it a shot? He swung at it and and I think that was you probably hit a the the what was the death knell for the AWF. They never could get that national cable bill. In those days you know Y Y with without it it was just so costly to produce shows and to buy time for individual markets in the reality. was you needed to be on TV for at least a couple of months to drive Dr Storylines before you can think about having a house show in the market. Oh absolutely Colin usually has three topics. So let's see if Thailand has the third one for you you can mine. No question can do you ever see yourself being inducted into and the Wwe Hall of rain when Moore Awa names. Go in Thank you for calling. I appreciate it in fact someone on on facebook. The other day published a list of people they thought should you should go into the WWF wwe hall of fame. And and I was very humbled at this individual and included my name but to answer your question I you know because I I was only there a couple years You know I like to think I had a an impact and did a pretty good job and was good at what I did but I. I don't ever foresee that happening. You know they're kind and You know they're they're reaching back a little bit in in into those days but I would be too beyond shocked diff- when they're sitting around trying to come up with names of my name Even came up although somebody alerted me Evidently they they redid. Did you know back. I guess on the. WWe Dot Com on the announcers. I guess there's a bunch of Pictures of me but I I don't Let's put it this way. I'll probably go in right after Wade. Does that'll be the day that'll be Well have fun can cause I think nobody in power today would be in power then if that happens but that'll be fun party. Well I know we're GONNA if you're still listening. I I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about my induction feet under Well you know. Let's let's wrap up the live. Cast I WanNa talk about you departure from wwe w. e. from the WWF. I also want some some Hogan Road Warrior. Bobby Heenan Wally Carbo stories and I took some notes during the interview about some follow up questions too so VIP members stay tuned. If you're listening to this on the VIP audio feed on the other side of the music. We'll have some exclusive content for you if you are not vip yet you can go via dot com and please follow me on twitter at v Wade Keller and you can follow our brand at p w torch. Ken Is there anything anything you want to mention that you're involved in that your upcoming appearances social media that people can follow you on that now. Is Your time to let people know how to keep in touch with you really on social media. I I have never gotten on on twitter a I probably should I go. You know following me would just not be that exciting I'm on facebook but It at this point that that's my soul social media exposure that and getting chance to be on. Pw Torch Excellent thank you. Thanks everybody for joining us today. Things are making us one of the top or actually wait if I could add one. Quick thing as a throwback in terms of the VIP membership on P. W. Torch. Don't you dare miss it. Thank you thank you means a lot. CHECK US out. You can subscribe to our show on. I tunes just search repeatedly torch lab tests for pro wrestling torch. You can find us. We are also among the very very top tier of sports podcasts where the number one journalist hosted pro wrestling talk show And we're two spots ahead of Roddy Piper today which I am am proud to say given What a legend in the business he is TASR has jumped ahead of us in today's I tunes rankings. Were head of him yesterday. So so it's kind of fun. Hit refresh on these. Keep keep spreading the word Are are growth in January was record-setting January was record-setting month for our listenership. And we think all our new listeners for joining us and spreading the word of course are longtime listeners for being with us from the beginning and Thailand and Boris. Two of our callers are among those who have been with us Near Day One when we started this show Just over five years ago I guess here on the people towards live cast has been. Ken Resnick And Monday Bruce Mitchell by Travis Brian to wrap up a weekend of wrestling news and preview that week of raw until time. Keller behalf of my guest. Ken resnick thank you for joining me and signing off for today All right we are now in the V I P after show portion of the program with former AWA and WWF and L. Sir. Ken resnick a Ken. I think when you were talking about on the live cats the difference between the AWA and the WWF The A lot bigger at that point then the Awa was lots even though you know the most of their history they awa was among the largest you know two three territories and at times bigger than the WWF natural expansion of change that and the number of markets that they were running how shows in was huge but they had not changed the old territorial system where you would do specific specific interviews for every single market for their monthly or every other month shows I talk about the production schedule and what it was like literally doing an interview you with every main event wrestler for every individual. How Show I? I mean every market the show aired on we did market specific interviews. And you're right in a lot of people don't know in those days. It was the norm with the talent roster. There would often be you too. How show sometimes three nights in different parts of the country so there would be days when we would have to do a hundred hundred plus interviews to cover all of the markets because remember beside they had? WWF Superstars Stars and they had wwf challenge that aired all over in a lot of markets. Got Two shows and come depending on the matches you would have to do interviews for both of those shows for a specific market. I remember I think the most was I my record was one night at the meadowlands. And you know when there we would obviously do interviews during the day when there was how show at night because the talent was there. We did started about eleven o'clock in the morning and we're still going when the show started. We had a hundred and Thirteen interviews and there were it was obviously more than that in terms of an actual number. Because there's some interviews that you don't hit the timing mark mark. Just weren't that good and you Redo but I remember towards the end. I was so exhausted. One of our camera camera guys took one of the huge black cases that the cameras were transported and turned it on its side so I could lean against it where you would start with a two shot and I would interact and then they would go into a hike shot of the talent so I could just lean back and rest against the camera case. Because we've I've been doing interviews for like ten hours wrestling slim fans. Are you that person that works in a pro wrestling reference to every aspect of your life where those kind of people to but we do so with mixed martial alerts. I'm Robert via host host of enemy talk for pro wrestling fans every Monday on. Pw Torch his daily cast lineup. Not only do we cover every U. OF C. Ambulatory event we provide context that only a wrestling fan would really understand. I mean we're the type of people that if you ask us about. How much of a mess? The middleweight title situation is were likely to reference. WCW In the early nineties. Think of us as a podcast for casual. MMA fence done by hardcore core wrestling nerves. And you could find by searching. Pw Torch and apple podcasts or any popular podcast APP and were always available on demand at pw torch daily. HE CAST DOT com. Where you can check out the entire lineup of the PD towards daily did the did the wrestlers themselves? I assume that they would cut all their interviews one after another not. We're GONNA DO MINNEAPOLIS. Now we're GONNA do Milwaukee we're going to Chicago but how how did they hold up to saying. Thanks very similar things time after time. And there's some guys who could word for word repeat exactly what they said and were there other guys who surprised you actually changing or improving or perhaps getting worse over repetitions The answer would be all of the above really. Yeah and some of the you know I remember when I talk about You know doing you know. Probably well over one hundred twenty interviews when you count the ones that we had to Redo that that was me but you know like even Hollick pollock might have you know ten twelve fourteen interviews to do and then it would be someone else and Hawk Hawk was pretty good. He generally wanted to get all of his dot and pretty much. I mean it's like anything in in any sport whether you're you know Tom Brady or or Lebron James or Alex events skin when Hawk would get there what he he was ready. That's what we did his interviews and I don't mean that in a bad way hulk was one he got all of his interviews out of the way because because as we talked about earlier he might be working with the same guy and doing an interview for that match but but for twelve different city. Yeah but Hawk was one he just he he would go and a lot of times he would change it I would come up op. was something during an interview. He would come up so a lot of times. They were different. There were some guys that if they had to do the same interview about the same match which they would do to three or four. Say Okay do some others you know because it would become so repetitive. It would lose as we talked about earlier. That spontaneity and excitement level absolutely I. It's it's such a different era than now. I mean there's obviously they do some some pre tapes but not a ton you know. I mean most of what they do. These days is Live in front of the camera or live to tape in case of a smackdown taping TNA impact a little bit different they. They're kind of old style in the sense of doing multiple TV. Show tapings at the same time but it's just such a different era the localized promos. And now you know it's more. Hey Circus has come into town. Come see the brand. And here's a few wrestlers and it's not that there's not those very specific personal promos about the market and that was one of the fun things about the AWA is they really felt like they were part of the community. Well of course in case Awa they were what kind of tricks of the trade. We're there with the AWA and in later. WWF in terms of when you talk about Douma market specific city specific interview. What were some the techniques that you would use to personalise for that market So those fans fell to connect you to the brand. Well if I had been in the market we would always try and work in and either the name of a popular restaurant or a popular club or are something that was going on in the city. Maybe little or a lot of fans thought we were doing the interview. We were in town and certainly wait if it was a large market where we would keep coming back to because of how shows that were. Were We'd be taping or talking about. If I I was in the city I would always try and talk to to fans or or or find out the not so much the hip spots but the the popular spot or or the the restaurants where like here in Minneapolis Saint Paul and the old Awa it was close to the old St Paul Civic Center. I would try and work in boy and I'll tell you what a night that's going to be. An is exciting. And that is I guarantee afterwards. I'm already thinking about that. Stake at Manzini dance scene. You you would try and work that in just two to localize it a little bit more to to Make It seem like you. You're not really a carpetbag just coming in at night and then you were gone so all the more calm and I remember with WWF. Howard think oh used to help produce a lot of the interviews and Howard would oftentimes mentioned mentioned something about a city that we could just work in and of course for me? It was great because if I had somebody that really really wasn't a great talker. It was kind of like a headed in my hip pocket. Where if the interview felt like it was dragging for a second? I can throw that out then. Go back to the talent with something else saw. It serves a dual purpose. You know localizing using the the interview more than just hitting the date and the building and also if I needed a little net I can throw that out and then go back to the talent that makes sense. Yeah interesting one of the things that when I get a chance. You know here in the twin cities or anywhere else to interact with the the wrestling fans and we haven't talked about it. And I know a lot of fans get so frustrated frustrated sometimes with some of the things that that happens on. WWe But the thing that amazes me is they have become One of the largest encompassing television production companies in the world. I know the point where you look at facts on the nfl they might be producing. You know five or six games but the difference is they just produce use the television aspect. They're not play calling as well. I mean the. That's what what amazes me. And even having been in it the amount of full gramling they produce not only you know on on cable over the air but now the wwe network. They're probably doing fifteen to twenty hours of television a week. I mean it's amazing that you know it's like I say say people need to realise. WWe Is really not in the wrestling business anymore. They're on the television production business. Yes but the product that they produce is wrestling but I think first and foremost they've become a production company just happened to be in the pro wrestling doing business but they're a corporation that produces TV first and foremost and you look at the front office. I mean there's very few people there what ties to wrestling anymore. There they could just as easily be working for a different entertainment company For better for worse you know that that is what they've become an an and it's been a gradual process us more so accelerated maybe over the last fifteen years well and I and I think part of the difference between for lack backup a better term old school wrestling and the product today is. You're exactly right. I think they're creative department. It's not having grown up and learn the business from those that had come before and put their blood and sweat and broken bones into it. They're half writing for what they think is going to be good television right but does not necessarily Sara Lee translate to the product and I know one of the things that I've noticed two things like this past Monday night raw back in the old days and not trying to date either one of us. But if you think about this past Monday's raw. It was thirty thirty minutes before they ever got to any wrestling. I know I know in the old days. If something was huge I remember they. They might have me open a program for like a minute and a half and then get right to the ring because the school thinking then was were a wrestling show. We have to get to action right right away. Don't people are going to change the channel but almost humorous to hear today given how different the attitude is. Yeah Yeah it's astounding. Yeah and I mean it's it's refreshing because X T. WWe's developmental territory. They've got their weekly. TV show on wwe network and on Wednesday show and this happens most of at the time if not all the time they do opening the NFC music place and then boom they go to the ring and a wrestler comes out to wrestle and it just it's so jarring. It's so shocking. Because I'm so used to watching impact and so SMACKDOWN and RAW. And you just don't see that on you know high high end well-produced national wrestling shows anymore. So I find it refreshing but I you know I Steve Austin gave. It took me a hard time about it. and Vince is like you know. Hey you gotta make people care about the match before it happens ends and you gotta set the table and what the appetite. But you're right ten. It's it's such a different approach but TV when you were announcing Awa and four WWF also TV was not a cash cow. It was something Vince paid for. He paid for a lot of. Oh sure I in those days. Television was there to do one one of two things drive the crowd at the upcoming how show or get people to buy the pay per view. That's right and I I mean nowadays. Oh days the the I guess. Some of the the wrestling fans aren't aren't aren't you know stupid. A house show. Oh today is almost analogous to a spring training game in in baseball or an. NFL exhibition indeed. Nothing big is going to happen at a house. Show if it's not if it's not television or pay per view. Nothing much is going to happen. You're largely to see your kids and families to see the stars in person and the brand. It's not so much to see news happen and I give vents and you know the WWe Machine a ton of credit because they have made Monday night raw on event to be at. I mean that it's almost. It's like a rock concert that that's the place to be because Monday night raw is coming the town that's right and I think you get a lot of people that want to go just to see what it's all about out not necessarily there for the wrestling but just the whole you know experience Yup and and I mean think about this way you know when I first started in the Awa and you you know. I started pro wrestling torch. If way back then somebody would have told you. There was going to be a pro wrestling. Event had would have a crowd of well over eighty thousand plus a million people on paper view. You and I would have both told whoever said that they were out of their living minds. Exactly and you know the AWA had some overflow houses At the Saint Paul Civic Center and you weren't circuit of the Old Auditorium. That's right yeah and then wrestle rock which turned out to be was that you were address Iraq but didn't participate in the event that like literally or final day. That was my I mean. I did some of the the television in participated but that that was my my final day with the AWA. In fact you'RE GONNA love this story and I shared it with Mid Carson Georgia yesterday at lunch I was sitting in the dressing room. And if you remember it wrestle rock Vernon Ganja came out of retirement again for the I don't Know Eighth Ninth Tenth Twelfth Time uh-huh Yeah Uh against was working with Nick Back Winkle you know In the next title that night but I was sitting in the dressing room and one of the greatest allies ever heard. I was sitting next to nick and we were talking and all of a sudden nick looks at me and he says so. Tell me did you ever think you would see the day when a sixty year old was trying the beat up a fifty year old would be on top. Well you know what I mean. I know that they're very different. They present present themselves very differently. But triple H is likely to wrestle sting this year Yup and sting is I think fifty six years old He'll be fifty six as wrestlemainia and triple h is probably let's see mid forties. I'm looking it up right right now. yeah he'll be he'll be forty five so we're only five years off from your beating up the sixty zero and one of the top three to three matches that Wrestlemainia it. You know the more things change the more they stay the same. When guys in pro wrestling have drawing power? It's not like basketball. You can't put Jordan out there against Kevin durant right now and to see how they do against each other. Whatever Jordan against Andrew Wiggins you know a legend versus the Kid because basketball quote unreal but wrestling as long as you have drawing power and can look semi presentable in the ring? Or you're just institution like for in Ganja if there's if there's tickets to be sold you're going to be in that ring you know I'll be. I'll be curious now that you mentioned and I. I don't think there's any question that's where they're leading but you know. WWe today market so so much to the younger generation. You know as they should. I mean a prime advertisers are eighteen to forty nine. I bet there's a lot out of a wwe fans that are going. Who's this guy staying? I know 'cause I mean he's been out of it for for for so long the you and I and a lot of old school fans that's like that's things finally in a wwe. Rake going guy. Some of pro. Wrestling's best podcasts. PODCASTS are the IP exclusive and you can go VIP and find out why we have been supported by paid subscribers for over thirty years with our exclusive exclusive top-shelf content including pro wrestling torch senior columnist. Bruce Mitchell with the Bruce Mitchell audio show I usually host that program although he has a variety of of yes hosts with different themes and unmatched historical insight but primarily providing insight and hard hitting analysis and opinion on what. Today's news means. It's also the fix with Todd Martin every mid week todd and I sit down for two and a half three and a half hours with analysis of the latest TV shows and major events. From W W WE E W new Japan and many others plus. We'll keep you up to date on what just happened in the world of anime. USC Latour and more and what's coming up the following weekend plus book reviews reviews of documentaries and so much more comprehensive coverage of the worldwide pro wrestling scene and the unmatched mailbag segment. This is one of the highlights of the week and the pro wrestling podcast world. I know I sound like I'm exaggerating. But this is grace up with the fixed listeners. Provide fantastic questions and todd delivers. 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Dating back to the mid-2000s back issues with Progressing Torch weekly newsletter over sixteen hundred hundred of them and so much more full details at W. Torch VIP Info Dot Com that's P. W. Torch Vip Info Dot Com. Join the ranks. So the most well informed and most entertained pro wrestling fans with the best podcasts lineup anywhere go VIP and get these shows with the ads and plugs removed also a huge bonus POW torch VIP INFO DOT COM. Well you know I I remember watching the wwl first and you know Billy Robinson was alleged but I didn't you know when he would come back after being away you know. They talk about him with reverence He's a legend. Or heck ray the crippling Stevens you know. He didn't. He wasn't wasn't in his prime by the time I started watching. And he certainly didn't look like Some of the you know Jesse Ventura Or eventually the roadways and hoke and he didn't look that part but I I I was scared and part of why was scared of him wasn't because I've seen his work before but because one the name was a crippling and as a nine year old that scared me I was like he crippled people people but a big part of it is what you talked about an hour ago Ken. It's about the announcers in the tone they set they gave me. It goes back to triple h and the kid crying I you know I. I think AAA should've walked away and had someone else console the kid but I'm a little bit more old school than most people I think the kid would have survived in if it wasn't able to handle it he shouldn't have been there but I know. WWAFL Linda McMahon in delicately put it market cradle to grave. You know they want everybody there. But I you know I bought into the story line and part of that in the characters was because because the announcers told me it was important in announcers having credibility was vital to selling matches involving wrestlers who were older and perhaps past their prime. And that's where. WWe I think is doing a pretty good job with staying saying. Hey we're GONNA you know. Present him as a big star and hopefully our brand has enough credibility. We did that. People will understand it but they've kept the history of the Monday night war alive and with documentaries and videos and stuff but but there are going to be kids out there who are like I just I don't care about. I don't know who this guy is. Although maybe he just looks cool with the music the makeup that they'll become fans even though he's fifty five you know and there's another thing that ah I think he has been lost today and you brought up a came to mind when you mentioned raised cripple Steven one of the things I noticed back then supposed to today the older guys like ray the cripple or or the the crusher or or mad dog or or Nick Bike winkle they were so adapted understanding the psychology of the fans and translating that into the timing in things they did in the ring on their interviews and I think some of that has gotten less. You're exactly right. I mean Ray Stevens. was you know past his prime when he came back. But boy he could still have one hell of a match Yes absolutely one of the greatest I mean one of the greatest hopefully really gets in the WWe Hall of fame this year being there in San Francisco and that was certainly market where most of his best matches were. And I think one of the other things that that I you've noticed in as we talked about I think part of that is coming from some of the creative. That are writing. What they think is good television and not necessarily good wrestling like when I was watching Monday night raw you know past week when and when the authority AAA Stephanie? Who by the way plays her part absolutely magnificent? Listen I mean even knowing the business in watching I'll sit there and you know have to catch myself because you hurt her timing. How she delivers rivers allies? It's like you find yourself really hating her. Yes and she is just magnificent added but at the same time when they came out and started talking about the the main event and wrestling did anybody not think Roman reigns was going to be coming out. And when did anybody not think Daniel Bryant was going to be coming out and did anybody not think Mr Money in the bank would becoming out and I'm thinking if they would've brought everybody out they could have done exactly what he did and done it in about half the time. I know you know what I mean. Is there going through it. I'm I'm sitting here waiting. Well you know how soon as you know when is. Daniel's news are going to start going well so much of it is just they gotta fill this time and it. It doesn't doesn't lead. Always the best television triple h spoke more honestly than maybe even visit man wanted him to about the challenges of doing a three hour show yeah And and I mean can you imagine. Imagine I mean three hours once a week and three hours live I know I I mean I still think one of the problems and you know. Obviously that's the engine that drives the train when they went from two to three hours. And the problem is every once in a while. You know when you're in prime time and I mean you know especially on on Monday night. Now you're you're opposite. You know in the fall your opposite Monday night. I football your opposite. castle State of affairs. And I forget the other Primetime show that does not in nine central on the network. But when you're coming out even for me a loving the business there's a couple of matches when they come come on. I see who it is a okay. Now's the time to go get something to drink them. I go check my email. I mean it's hard when you have to do three hours. It's it's tough. It's tough on the talent. You know I mean Daniel. Bryan's talked about that. A lot of guys WanNa do the first hour and a half. They don't want to be in that thaddeus leading up to the main event crowds are tired by then and it it wear. It wears them out. Yeah let's go back in time. She a little bit. Bobby Heenan You you got to be around Bobby A Lot What's what was he like to work with And where does he rank in terms of talent. Then maybe some Just personal anecdotes about you. Know what he was like behind the scenes scenes. Were especially when you were You know not quote one of the boys and he might have decided to. I don't know I don't know if he initiated you or it was very welcoming and roll out the red carpet. Talk about what he would like to work with Well let me say Wade and I thought about this and I have been incredibly lucky you know. I got to work with with some of the great managers from classy Freddie Blassie Lou Albano Jimmy Hart you know Mr Fuji But and they were all incredible in my mind and I have never met or worked with Paul Heyman but I've obviously obviously watched him extensively the two greatest managers that I have ever seen. Bobby Heenan Paul Heyman. Oh Oh yeah. We had the most incredible sense of timing in terms of wive. How shows with Bobby Orr Paul? Now now I think they are are just absolutely amazing. Bobby in real life was one of the nicest assist people And Bobby was in like I said you know I think Jack Lanza put the word word out that you know I was not a Verne or Greg Ganja stooge you know. I was there to put the town over a- as best I could and I was an okay guy so I think that got put out quite quickly thankfully for from my my standpoint. So Bobby Wood was great to work with and I mean I look forward to doing interviews interviews with bobby because he was just so talented he was so sharp and so talented. Wanted Bobby new during an interview when he should talk when he should be intense when he should blow his stack. I I I mean he was just aw master In terms of of a couple personal anecdotes Bobby one. He is only having a couple of times. I lost it in an interview with Bob. I just started laughing so hard. We had a staff and Redo it. We were in an interview and I was doing it with Bobby. I don't think nick was there. It was just by being I and it was around the holidays. And Bobby's doing this interview and getting a heated up and talking about the match and putting over we're all serious and right in the middle of the interview he goes. Oh Jeez and I went what. What's wrong because you get a Christmas card for me yet and I'm trying to play it and I said well no? As a matter of fact I did. He goes. Yeah and you'll already either and I I just crack racked up. I mean I I started laughing so are there was just no could save the interview. Bobby was because he thought it was a great land. Where did you come? Both I don't know just came to me And Bobby in Iowa when I was a wwf pulled probably the greatest greatest rib on me ever. We were in Pittsburgh and we had a one day of interviews to do. They always would send me a list ahead of time everything we had to do and I forget who the the age it was. It was supposed to oversee them but there was a problem with this plane connection and he was going to be a couple of hours late and for whatever reason I had left the rundown in my hotel room and I'm trying to think who was at the hotel that wasn't there yet that I could call and then call the desk to let into my room to get the run John now she and the only one I could think of was Heenan and I'm seeing myself. I see better off taking the heat from the office office in not getting these done than letting bobby heat and get into my room but I call bobby called the desk. He went and and got the list. Came down to the Promo. And I'm saying what did you do to my room. Nothing come on. I wouldn't do that too. I was like an all day long. I was bugging him what he did and he played it straight into and we go back to the hotel after the show I go to my room and then we're going to go down the bar and have a great and I mean Wade. I like put the key in the door and I'm opening the door inch by inch. I don't know if there's a bucket of water I get in the door. There's nothing I go in. I mean I check every drawer every everything because I'm convinced he did something and I can't find this thing I check under the bed everywhere. I go through my luggage so I go down to the bias of Bobbio me by a beer. He's what I said. I was sure you did. He said I told you I would. So we haven't from go back to the room. You know they're ready for bed. Climb into the bed and I at the top of my voice. He and he's laughing outside my door what he did he must have gone to the restaurant and got like three or four salt shakers. Yeah well the bed back on the white sheets and just poured salt all through the bad. I mean I ended up having to sleep on top of the bedspread but it was so those are are probably two of my favorite stories but he was. He was just a delight. And I ran into bobby at nappy a few years later I think I was out there for the aws. And you know bobby was still Out there he was going to be in the WWF had that and we had gotten to know each other he had met my mom. I mean he was just he and his wife Cindy. We're just unbelievably great people from we've I ran into the hotel treasure island. We were both in there and you know. He spied on him at breakfast and we had breakfast together. We were talking and he goes. You know asked about my mom and my dad passed and I said she had met someone in. They were living together and he goes. What what do mothers limit some guy? What's her number? So this is before cell phone. So Bob Costantini answers he goes. Oh I can't believe this is what kind of person are you sending example like that living together with your son knowing about what is she like. He doesn't go far. ARE THEY GONNA pay. I think it's great this he for I mean that's yeah was yeah and and like you you know if there's anything tragic as witty and great a guy is the bobby now. Can't really talk is just I mean as about it. Sad as it gets 'cause he he had a gifted gap but you know off camera. He was he was just wonderful full. And you know as I was there and accepted pretty quickly bobby as much as anyone would point things out to me to help me get better. So he was. That's good to hear. Yeah he was. He's just a terrific Human being and in fact One night we were in and I was rooming with Jack Land that we had a show at the meadowlands and then the next night we were in Hershey Pennsylvania. So Jackson what you WanNa do you WanNa spend the night in Newark and have to get up real early and drive to Hershey. You want to head out after the show so we can sleep in and Hershey. So you know let's go out after the SH- just head out after the show because if we go back to tell you know we're going going on in the bar it's still going to be one or two in the morning before you go to bed this way. We'll get in there to three in the morning. We'll be able to sleep till ten thirty which who what we did but we stopped at a truck stop on the way in the middle of the night and just to get some food and I remember I gotTa Meatloaf Sandwich and a glass of milk and I woke up the next day. The meat was bad and I was so sick I tried to do the interviews to get through 'em and I you know it was like I was sick out of both of them so I was taking dram. I mean I was taking. I think it was low modal. I mean I was just and and I'm I am just dying. Yeah and I was doing an interview with Jake. The snake and in the middle of the interview said Jake Sesame a man. Are you okay and you know I was doing and I said well. I'm surprised you ask them. I am a little. He said No. No No. I'm stopping unity's Kim and I'm not kidding you man. He's look white. You're looking gray and I ended up at that point a few minutes later I got so violently ill and you know everybody everybody you know after the show. They took me back to the hotel last game in the room he goes. That's about as sick as I've ever seen a human being in my entire life and you know bobby you know as you mentioned earlier in the pre pre show or VIP show. Bobby wrote a book any a book. Assigning here so I went out to to see him and pick up his book and we chatted behind but he signed the book to the MEATLOAF. Boy Oh man never let he's Never GonNa let you forget that right. No no so Bobby was just Is One of my fondest memories. I was down in Tampa on vacation out of the winter and I was. You know walking through Old Town at Tampa and you know I'm walking through all of a sudden I hear somebody screaming my name and I turned around. It was bobby and Cindy just having launching an outdoor cafe you call me over and we just spent the whole afternoon together. Oh that's great he and in Sindhi or are are are just wonderful wonderful. If you've I always thought the world body and like I say of all the managers I've worked with and watch me bobby. Heenan bought him are just a cut above when you download and listen to the way Keller pro wrestling poll shows we get right into the analysis of what happened if if you WanNa get a foundation of what happened if you didn't watch the show or a sneak peek at what I thought of the show. Checkout W torch dot com where I cover raw eighty eighty w organic tea and smackdown on Monday Wednesday and Friday nights. I'm updating my reports every few minutes during the program so whether you're watching or not checkout. PW TORCH DOT COM and hit refresh during the shows or catch up after the shows are completed same thing by the way for wwe pay per views. That's P W torch dot com read. The results ultimate details of what happened and my analysis of the segments on the show. That's P W torch dot com Paul Heyman stories. What kind of experiences have you had with? I mean I've never met Paul. Oh okay that's what I was okay. Every I was thinking timelines from watching him on. WWF THEIR NOTCH. Hi Chubby W. E.. He his timing everything he and bobby are the two best I've seen but I I've met just honest my you know on. Yeah Never worked with him but I I think the two best. You're not gonNA have any arguments there. Yeah most people see those two. The best Road Warriors I when I think of you interviewing Awa I often think of the road warriors. That's next to you Talk about the dynamic with them and and what you find a professional level thought of dealing with them on interviews I I will tell you this when I had to interview the road. Warriors in like my first or second week having not I really met them. That was the only interview I ever did in the Awa where I felt totally intimidated. Yeah Yeah and and almost scared and as I got to know Paul and Mike and Joe I mean it was great great Terrific terrific guys. But you know I often say that that was the case in a little bit it like you know you talked about earlier. As Brock lesser is dealing with today in the Awa they you want the road warriors to be the ultimate heels but they were so good at what they you did in the ring their physique there look they became baby faces through no fault of. There's no no fault of the promotion just the esteem. The fans held them in and appreciation for their work in power. Did you From from just a witty standpoint hawks seem to be so gifted such a natural Because he was a combination. You know of legit tough seeming street but also really funny I is there anybody else that you've interviewed over the years who you would put at that level in that category category with Taco had the but also that that physical intimidation To a little via probably the closest I would say was the macho man. Yeah I mean. He had that whipped in and the huge muscles. Not as intimidating is hock. But that's probably as close as I can really come off with the the top of my head had an and talking about the road warriors in fact even for you off from somebody and I have no idea how this ever saw the light of today but I did an interview with the road. Warriors Market Specific for Winnipeg pag only and this was after Verne was out of the town. It was being run by Jack. Lanza ends a nick and wally on the town so we had a huge show and he wanted the warriors to do an interview so we we did it actually in the party room of my apartment complex. Wow and it was four winnipeg in and we're we're starting the interview and it was just animal and hawk. Paul wasn't there and for whatever the reason as we start something possesses hawk he walks off to to let animal have the stage for a little bit and he goes to this refrigerator in the party room and finds this huge Turkey. drumstick now weighed we. That drumstick could've been laying that refrigerator or six months. And he grabs it and comes back to the interviews. You know. We're rolling and you know we had some time and he starts. He bites into this Turkey drumstick. It's so bad right. Niko horrible bad. He says laughing so he walks off. And he's like fitness out on the aside an animal and I are just I literally turning a little away from the camera trying to bite my lip too. Because I'm afraid I'm I'm just GonNa crack up and then animal just started laughing. Roddy wash off and art comes back. He's trying to carry. I still got this drumstick. And then he he knows I'm GONNA start laughing. So he pulls out a hunk of meat and try to stuff it in my mouth and it's the funniest funniest interview and somebody founded somewhere. And I I don't know if you can find it. Put It on my facebook page about got a year ago but I don't know if they got you to where they got it but if you get a chance. That was probably the most bizarre interview. And I don't don't even think that it that aired in Winnipeg but I mean it was so best so funny that you can literally see all three of US cracking racking up and just losing character in Promo. Oh man I mean maybe if you go A- and Youtube and in you know put in road warriors can't win a vegas it it might but it it you would really get a kick out of it and you. You don't know how that got out. No you know. I mean this is in the early eighties before you do before the Internet so I don't know who had it but I mean I was absolutely absolutely shocked to see that ever saw the light of day. Wow wow that's fantastic dealing with Hulk Hogan You know your your big name. Stars interviewed a lot of them and Awa. But Ho. Oh cogan biggest name on national of interview I know it was part of these grueling days and hope showed up. It's time to do hulk. Everyone backseat with schedule. But did you ever get any time. Nine to get to know Hogan or on a personal level and as a professional How did he compared to some of these others? That you're speaking of I did hear in the Awa in fact when Vince was trying to get him away from the Awa. I forget the scenario but it was just hulk hulk and I and I think it was on when we were going up to Winnipeg for a show when hope talked to me about it and you know the pros unconscious and I kind of Said Hawk. I mean and and the you were around a little bit. The the Guy News didn't didn't go overboard and trying to treat their talent. Great Yeah and one of the reasons hall thinking about leaving. Was You know the uh not to the degree Vince took but the guy who started selling t shirts and stuff. Yeah you know. They were selling one with hawks. Quietness and you know he wanted part of that. Money is he certainly deserve. And you know Verne's attitude was you know now without me you're nothing you deserve it. I'm not giving you any of it. Yeah and I think hulk was asking for like five grand and I think that was You know may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I mean if you think about it too loose hulk Hogan over five grand but one of the things when we talk I said well. What's stopping you and I never forget? This in as I came to find out he said because Verne has the one thing that Vince can't offer for me I said what he said. Time off. ooh So that was one of the things he was thinking about. But you know I got to know Wow Hulk in in on a personal level he was always great to work with. I never ever had the slightest problem with Hawk. Well I mean other than and not in a bad way when you're the biggest star when you get there you do it whenever you want to do it. But he was great great. Did everything never had a problem with him he was you know the consummate pro to me in doing the interviews You Know I. I don't know what he may have been. And you know on the business side to deal with but from my standpoint. I never ever had a problem with him. and in fact a a couple of years ago when hall came out with his book he was doing a signing at the mall and I hadn't seen hall. Can I wanted to read the book anyway so I went out and just got in line and I mean I probably stood in line for about an hour. The crop was happy. Finally got to the Front and Jimmy Hart was there and you know he was talking all the people in line and I can obviously wrestling fan so I kind of came out. I was wearing a baseball law. Calf kind of pulled down and nobody really couple of people recognize me in line or taught they did when I finally got up to the Front Jimmy at his back to me and I tapped him on the shoulder and I said Hey. Aren't you Jimmy Hart. And he turned around and then he said Oh I got like jumped over. The railing gave me a big hug. And he said what are you you doing. What are you crazy? I didn't Wanna now I mean hey people are standing in line. I'm not GONNA but in. And he he pulled me out and then went up and talk to Hallock and he said hang around. We're going to be done in about fifteen minutes. We sat and visited. You know for a long time so I talk to me was great the consummate professional when it came to doing whatever needed to be done and I always felt a little bad for hulk because a lot of the other guys traveling or going through airports you you know. I could wear sunglasses their cap or whatever and he wouldn't even recognize them. Hulk couldn't go anywhere without being recognized. Immediately yeah in fact a store you'll get a kick out we were. I can't remember the town But I had landed and we had some driving to do so. I was in line for for rent a car. You know some guy tasked me on. The shoulder turned around some guy and a ball cap sunglasses and a warm up suit. He goes you go into the hotel right to the arena and my wife says I'm GonNA head right to the arena about. They said well. Can I ride with you and it was You know well I may stab wherever hotels find too. But can I ride with you and I go. Do I know you he goes. It's me hyper. It was rowdy I recognize him but I think about that because hall could never get away with that. Yeah so that was but he was. You know I'm sure that had to wear on him. He couldn't walk. You know anywhere and I remember one night I forget the talent was. We'd after the show. We got back to the hotel all and hawks that you're going to get something to eat and I said Yeah I'm starting me says. Come out of the room. Let's just order room service. Because he you know he couldn't go down to the restaurant without people driving him crazy. Lisi you know for pictures autograph so we just Santa's room so he was. He was always great to work with. Yeah yeah well as far as yes Somebody who goes way back but was quite the personality Wally Carbo exactly Larry Nelson You know had some great anecdotes in his book about Wally. During that time I know you know Karsh and George Shire You know grew up with him as a personality. Bobby Heenan Has shared many of those stories. The I've seen if I can find it here. This is from Page thirty five. And and Larry Nelson's book He talks about. He says while he explained to me that wrestler's wrestling fans thought thought of as good guys for known as baby faces by business. Insiders and the so-called bad guys were called heels. He vowed to get me a book explaining the various wrestling maneuvers on the road. He said we wrestle. Drink and screw. He looked up at me with wrinkled face and a gleam in his eye testing two years of countless twists and added. It's good to have you with us. YOU'LL FIT in. I had so much to learn and He goes on to talk more about wally. Wally had this this personality on Air. Can of you know this this ingratiating by likable small small but incharge promoter and he was just so perfect for that role You know when people say why are you a wrestling fan. I mean I can't help it. Include Wally Carbo on that list of endearing personalities. Do you have any wally stories that That you WANNA share from your time when the cameras were not on I do but look me say I. I agree with you completely about wally. He was like white on the casting. Yeah he was perfect. Yup but when we talked earlier earlier in Larry's book about me and you know food and getting reimbursed from the office which was had no factual basis whatsoever. What he described from wally? I believe it was one hundred percent. Accuracy my favorite wally story when his wife Odi had had been out of town gone for a week and and Wally hit sent somebody to pick her up from the airport. I think it was one of the guys that used to set up the ring. uh-huh well when she landed. She called Wally Moon he said So and so's coming to pick you up. And she was quizzing. He said the places great. I took care of it all. Everything's clean. I watched all the dishes. I wanted the plants every day. You're not gonNA believe how they grew. And then while the as and he said doesn't matter you're still not going to believe how they grew. We Hung Up. I said why what did she say so. The flowers are plastic Why why why? That's my story I'm sticking I water them everyday. You're not gonNA believe Bruce Wanted. The plastic doesn't matter. They grew man. Man I I I might have heard Karston similar stories to that but just the the wally stories are. Just those are the stories you want to sit around and tell with your friends you know from from that era especially the the other great and while he was always dumb like a Fox no I I was not present but I. I've heard this story from both nick back. Winkle and Bobby Heenan Nick and bobby called wally because they were upset upset about a payoff and you know Nicholas standing there. Bobby was on the phone and he was going back and forth. You know with with wally and back and forth on the pay off and all of a sudden white hung out and bobby puts the phone down and they said what happened. What's obviously he had to go? Wally suddenly said Oh. It's raining in Florida. I gotta go and they said what's that GonNa do with the vices. I have no idea while he was great and I mean it. It was wonderful for me being being in the opposite in downtime just to to sit and talk with with volume Jack Lanza in the word more about the psychology legiti behind the business. But you're right. Wally I mean he was the Don knotts wrestling. He was right. A Hollywood cast was just perfect for for the parts. And you know even to this day like you know friends ends in my view. We'll be talking about something that happens in baseball or football and invariably say telling me do you think they'll be fines and suspensions that was they gotta be fine suspensions for this. Oh magin the marketing if The eight t shirts had been a big thing at that time period. The there's IT'S GONNA be fines and suspensions walis. Merchandise money would have been incredible. Oh absolutely you're right Every wrestling fan loved wally. Yes and as a The dynamic between Wally Vernon did you get get to see much of that. And and why that partnership worked at least for as long as it did Or did you kind of the disintegration of it though the latter stage I I was more when I came in. I think it was the beginning of the disintegration stage and I think it was financial I think burn tried to screw moms and stuff. Yeah but because I think it worked for so long because Wally real-life there was very little difference. Between what you I saw on camera. And you mentioned how can you not like the guy. Yeah and I think that's one of the reasons that it it lasted Because I think a lot of what went on wall he just let it roll off his back. Yeah Yeah what can and it has been tremendous Reminiscing I I love talking Awa Obviously as somebody who grew up watching it and I had a chance to interview in decades and it is It's it's been great to have you back on and talk about your WWe Experience to how how what what led your departure from wwe wwf when we kind of end on that note wooden. Maybe we can do this again sometime because I have a feeling it's probably more stories to Oh shoot. I would love to wade of absolutely anytime. The reality was that that And it somebody wants asked me and even when I was there you know years in. WWF The shadow shadow of gene kind of was was always hanging over me. And you know when I came in gene you know what whether it was his Joyce Vincent Choice. Whatever really took a step back I mean he was hardly around at all he did some of the stuff for for pay per views? And you know like Saturday night main event but you know week to week interview. He did not But whether I think Jean decided he'd had enough time off where where he wanted to come back and you know. Vince made the decision. You know we've got a chance to bring Jean back. That's what we're going to do so I I mean it wasn't you know my Decision I mean you know I the travel and everything Aside I mean I love my time there. I cherished it although I do say to myself. I can't for the life of me figure out how they're the guys are able to do it today. Because in those days it was all pre obviously nine eleven. I mean there was no security security at the airport. I if if you had a seven thirty flight if you got to the airport at ten after seven you were fine. I I mean you know as long as you so you just you know. Check your bag. Add just walk through the gates You know now is security and everything I mean I remember a number of instances. Where are you know I'd be out of show and somebody from the office would come up and say hey instead of doing? TV Tomorrow In Buffalo we're going to do TV in Columbus so so you give your ticket to buffalo to Brutus and take his tickets Columbus and you didn't have show idea. Do you just had to take it. Got On the plane and You know now the going through security and everything I mean I. It's it's a whole whole different world but I I love and and cherish my time. They're very good Ken Thank you so much again. I mean this time has just flown by. I can't. I'm looking at the clock right now. I can't believe we're well over two hours and It's just that the time that you've got to be around wrestling in the Erez and the two different companies and the personality that you got to know is is special I mean I. I know you didn't spend twenty five years in the business but man in the years that you did. Oh yeah and I'd be remiss if I didn't at least mention Some of the times for Primetime I got a chance to to call matches with gorilla monsoon. What joy he was to be around what Class Act Act and yup absolutely wonderful human being? I hear that so much and yeah I had Kinda forgotten that you you had a chance to do that and man. Yeah another another legend. That you've got to work with that is that is tremendous. Yeah I've had I I don't have it and I've had people you know Message me or you have my email and talk about stuff that they've seen on on. W W E network from Primetime and recite specific instances or calling matches because we used to do it at the Old Boston Austin Garden so he was another what a just treasure of a human being. Well I if anybody from listening to this has follow up questions for Ken. for future potential appearance. Here on the live cast Feel free to send it in right now POW TORCH LIVE CAST DOT com. Just put Ken Resnick in the subject. Line line then can search for that by subject and I can't be heavy on down the line again This this I know. I've got more more questions than I have. Time so It'd be fun to tap into some more memories. Memories that are that are not just the the very top names that that we've covered today and tell some more stories so thank you so much for your generous time today. I'm glad we finally got to do this anytime way. Go great to talk to you my old friend but now when you get back in time we gotta get together. I agree and I'd love to make one of those lunches with George. Do all right but take care of me. Call me anytime you need it great thank you. VIP members for your support and on that note. Let me have this week. Keller signing on. Ooh Ooh if you'd like to hear this show without ads and plugs interrupting there's one thing you can do right now to make that happen and that has become a POW torch VIP member got about a dozen other podcast the hosts that are VIP exclusive. And you'll get the way. Keller poll shows and podcasts during the week with the ADS and plug removed all on a separate feed exclusively league for VIP members plus tons of other podcasts that are VIP exclusive access to our full archives of podcast dating back to two thousand four which includes post pay per view roundtables labels dating back to two thousand four also access to our full archives thousands of podcasts over fifteen hundred back issues of pro wrestling torch weekly newsletter that started at All Africa Edrich scored website and more checkups full details at W. 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AWA wrestling WWe Ken Ken resnick Ken Resnick Ken Bobby Heenan Vince McMahon Larry Hannie Larry Wade Keller Jack Jack Lanza wwe Oakland Larry Nelson Steve Austin P. W. Torch Vip Pat McNeill wrestling VIP Larry Larry He
Remembering the Territories: AWA

Busted Open

50:51 min | 3 months ago

Remembering the Territories: AWA

"This is a special edition of busted, open, Sirius. XM fight nation. Live from the Sirius Xm studios in New York City this. Busted Open. Your only destination for daily pro wrestling talk in the entire world. From the independent seat to the main event of Wrestlemainia. Like busted open. With. The topics breaking news interviews with some of the biggest names in the game. Designed, for the fan by the FAN old school era. Check meets. New School. tried. Instead Free Sixteen. Live now this is busted opens Awa territory special here, your hosts. Dave La Greco and Tommy Dreamer. welcome to bust it open remembering the territory's myself David Greco and my tag team partner today, the innovator of violence, the landlord of the House of Hardcore, himself, Tommy, dreamer and Tommy today with. The Awa, no, yeah, we are I'm super excited I. Don't remember how I got the Awa besides the wrestling magazines that we've talked so much about because that was our internet before the Internet was invented, but I used to love the Awa. You WanNa talk about. You know today's wrestling where we talk about the third brand of NFC AWA was a major powerhouse in professional wrestling. And you look at the rosters, and you look at the hall of fame members that the ADA brought to us. It's just saw. It's so enriched in wrestling history. I can't wait to talk about it as `specially. Talk with our guest because he is the man. Yes, we're going to introduce our guest than just one second I'll tell you exactly how we were able to get the Awa in the New York Metropolitan. Metropolitan, Area Tommy were were both from an ad is w pix channel eleven on Saturday mornings. We were able to get the w eight and later on on ESPN, but you mentioned our guests, so let's bring him in. Somebody knows not only a part of the AWA. Only a tag team champion with Jim, bronze L., but also the son of the legendary the iconic vern Ganja. We bring in Greg on your right now, Greg, how are you today Sir well good. Thank you very much for yarn. Good seeing you all again. Again I don't think ever saw you dave but. You something about me. You look good. Is it just the three of us or not, just the three of us. Okay, it's the three of us in the busted open nation and you know busted open is the number one sport show on Sirius? XM and I think a big reason. Why is because pro wrestling? Fans are so loyal, and when you look at the Awa and that loyal fen fan base especially where it was regionally IN MINNEAPOLIS MINNESOTA You would have to say Greg that the AWA loyalists were definitely that loyal. Oh, they were you know and it was a. it was a big territory. You know we covered more more ground than any other league in the in the in the USA we were from Winnipeg Canada Saint Louis all the way to the west coast scene. Our major cities were when Abegg. Green Bay Milwaukee Chicago Saint Louis. Did the quad cities. We did Omaha Lincoln Denver Phoenix Salt Lake City Las Vegas and Oakland and San. Francisco plus Vancouver and Montreal once in Awhile in Toronto once in a while while Greg. Covered what was what was a average week for you? As a wrestler in the sense of travel schedule, we know the W is a little bit different than average everybody else. burns philosophy was a in in in the Midwest and in the in this part of the United States from. Winnipeg to the west coast. people in May and June didn't come up much. They wanted to get out. They'd been cooped up all winter, so we took the whole month of May and the first two weeks of June off and only ran the major cities, which was usually Thursday Friday Saturday sometimes Sunday in the summer saw our load is about two hundred fifty to two hundred seventy matches a year whereas you know in the Charlotte area, the Florida Area Texas New York. They're going three hundred sixty five days a year, and and some of them twice on the weekend. So we're able to because of that because of the major cities. Verne was able to get. The best talent in here all the time you know they had time is big thing. He wanted time for their families and they peop- The guy said time for their families, so they made great money We didn't have We had four or five matches all we had on a card and we're sold out from one end of the country to the other most of the time in our television ratings were the highest of any TV show except for sixty minutes across the country. Wow, and you know here in New York area people talk about Madison Square Garden. In Atlanta. They talk about the arm the. When I think of the AWA. I think of the Saint Paul Civic. Center I mean that was the bigger in a arena that all the TV, really kinda surrounded correct, will it? Did we did it out of here? We did Minneapolis out of the studio here and then we would film the the two places. We found a winnipeg just ruin. Ascend up there so they. They took the matches across Canada. That's why we we did a lot Canada and and then we got ESPN earwood adventure took his nationwide but Yes Saint Paul, you know. The Denver Auditorium was unbelievable, CHICAGO? We use the Russell both the apathy. The rosemont horizon. Balance San Francisco is quite an a quite. An adventure the Oakland Coliseum. I. Mean you know it was all major buildings and There was it was hot. It was fun. We we. All Know About Your Dad's amateur background, but I think professional wrestling. He's known for being the trainer of trainers You went through that camp. Can you get talk about because it's such a different way of training today and you know, but your dad He has some legendary. we countered it up one day twenty, one hundred forty four wrestlers. On out of that Ninety but ninety nine percent of all ended up being made event wrestlers. And his flashy was he started. started wrestling in nineteen, forty, nine here in Minneapolis, and came out of an amateur bachelor of yours human, and are SORTA, so it was a big star. MINNESOTA ALREADY NCA champion rest in the nineteen forty eight Olympic team as an alternate. so he he had a name for himself and his first match us to tell us. Was Abe King Kong Cassie And some of his buddies were in the front row, one his bud grant. Or biking coach billy by in Jim laskey and Burns Wrestling Abe King Coin Cash E.. And He was getting the crap out of him pretty good and the three guys stood up in cash. She leaned over the ropes they said said on punks. and. They all sat back down but they told Bernie was too small, so they sent him to the Homa which we lived in a trailer at the time, and he hooked it up behind the car, and my mom and dad drove to Tulsa. Oklahoma. And in two weeks became the light heavyweight champion. And then we made that circuit down there. You Know Tulsa Downing through Texas back in Louisiana and in in back to Oklahoma. And then in nineteen fifty get a call from Fred Kohler the promoter in Chicago. And, he said a burn. We'd like to bring into Chicago. We're going to go on network TV. Which is that time? Was the Dupont network which eventually became wgn? And he so we'd like you to come in. So this was the story. Burn used to tell so I fly into Chicago on. Get into the get into the arena and Fred comes up me and you've got about thirty guys in the locker room and he said. Burn here's what we're going to do with you. Tonight. Rian dressed up as a Martian. We're in a laureate from the ceiling. And then you're gonNA Russell. In in Vernon and I know run by by Cantieri of careful. How I word this for the satellite radio. Don't forget. Case, so you gotta be concurs. You Can Adler. So ruined said the fuck you are. Out Tell you what lineup everybody here? All three I'm going down to the ring and they can come in one at a time two to time three two time. If I don't beat him, all I'll quit wrestling. And nobody get in the ring with him. So, he said I'm wearing my wrestling tights and my boots, and if I don't make it that way, I won't make it, but I'm gonNA. Make it and he became the first. Major Star on Network TV. And I guess a friend of mine told me that in the World Book Guinness of Records. He holds the record for the first athlete besides Babe Ruth to make one hundred grand. They made that nineteen fifty. And he would tell the story that you know all that. All the territories are still out there so they would. They would grab a couple of the the stars of the Network TV and bring immense. They bring vern in Pat. O'connor into Buffalo New York. And they get in there and the plane was a little late in. It's snowing and. God the traffic's backed up and they said man. What's going on here in town is GonNa. Kill our gate. Or they get to the arena, and there was twenty thousand people turned away from the event that night. So then he knew what the power of TV was, and he wanted to change the. The philosophy of rustling at that time, there was gorgeous, Gorgeous George, and you know a lot of Gimmick, would they? Called Gimme wrestlers at that time. And he won more athletes and he brought in Dick the bruiser in. killer Kowalski a Yukon Eric mature Kim Mulia Kalmykov brothers you know it was quite an array of talent that he ended up bringing in to the national TV and actually spending the time and training. And I think that's the biggest thing about the AWA. In regards to any other promotion was really not only the athleticism, but the foundation in amateur wrestling I think that's what made the Awa so unique? Oh, it was I mean. The wrestling camp was so tough. You couldn't believe it and we had to learn how to utter Russell and I mean Russell Russell shoot the way they call it and if you couldn't do that, you probably. Probably couldn't make it with with Fern I. mean his philosophy was when you go in the ring? A better know how to Russell and you'd better you know you put your matched. The other with wrestling holds and I get forget how to get out of the holds and and doing everything else after that, so it was a heck of an education. We went six hours a day. six days a week, plus then we had to lift weights afterwards and the camp. Start Out it might can't. We were really fortunate? We had RIC flair Jim Brown Zell The Iron Sheik Ken Patera myself and Bob Braggers Bob came out of pro football. He was about thirty two at the time, so he never really made it just because of his age. You know he didn't quite catch on Vern train sides as fodder Ricky steamboat gun. The Anderson Brothers only liars Gene Wow You know people don't even realize that, but sent a lot of people all over the country blackjack Mulligan blackjack Lanza. The list goes on and on. And how it was the same camp every time man you started out. With start out with a thousand free squads. the called hindered squads with a little jump step in them, and we start out with four such a twenty five in in our camp. We had one hundred one hundred guys in the for after the first hour. That was six of US left. Everybody else had dropped off. I mean the calisthenics we had to do the squad's. A all these calisthenics inside the ring. Then we got in the rain. We did another hour in the ring of Calisthenics. He'd stand on your head that turnbuckle. Build your neck up. You get on all fours. One Guy would sit on your back facing apps direction with his head from your head, and then he'd do a as sit up, and then you'd have to push them up with your neck would build strong necks, and then the next hour might behold encounter homes and doom thousand times the fourth hour be bumps. We probably do a thousand bumps a day. And then hit the ropes. You know in those first six weeks you know Thomas you know tears all the skin off your your body and all black and blue, but You just keep working through it and then Then we would do the fifth hour generally was submission wrestling. Billy Robinson was our trainer, and he had a in between him and burn the. A. Number of horrible holds the. Got Stretched really bad. You know they'd show you three or four, and then you'd have to get on the map with them. And then the thoroughness a he the arms open and you'd go to put that. Hold on, and they'd reverse. Crank your. Foot up your ass. You know and. Screaming like crazy. But and then the last hour we went out, we did We did win sprints. We did run twenty yards walk. Twenty yards run twenty yards for half hour and then we'd go over I. He had this farm that we're in an old barn with the we're on the second floor, no windows and one lightbulb above the the ring. And We went from September to January of January and you know his fifteen twenty below zero out there. And we go across the road. He had There was a river there with river bluffs, and we'd run up and down those and then we would run back to the back to the barn, which about a mile away and butter and flair. We should the last two. Little tiny steps trying to get back in Vernon billy streaming. Adam but that was quite account I mean. When you came out of there you were pretty ready. You were pretty ready. And, you talk about the stars you mentioned campaign. Terry mentioned ric Flair when we come back Tommy with Gregg Ganja. We WanNA. Talk about the stars. That really made the AWA will do that. We're back on remembering the territory's Awa. Right here busted open. You're listening to bust. It opens a W territory special, only on Sirius. XM fight nature. Channel One fifty six. The, Aqaba rock show Mike Tyson has the fire in. That doesn't sound anything like Holyfield's mindset towards if only fill wants to put on a spectacle of adversary, it sounds like Mike Tyson once. Is masqueraded under the term exhibition. What he wants to you know and I don't thought for exhibition will satisfy that fired. Mike Tyson. I think it's going to be scheduled. The next edition titled the Next Vision When I. Think once Mike is in ring. It's going to turn into a fight weekdays from twelve to one PM Eastern. On siriusxm fight, nation Channel One fifty-six Dave league-record NEC. W Legend Tommy Dreamer take a look back at one of the most historic wrestling territories, the American wrestling association this busted. Open Awa territory special with Special Guest Gregg God yet. Welcome back to busted open remembering the territory's talking about the AWA and Tommy were here with Gregg. genucel please for first time ever in the eleven year history a busted open to talk to Greg Ganja and obviously greg was a star in the Awa and they were not short on stars Tommy from you know Nick Bach Winkle to Wa- mcdaniels some dog for Schon Brad Reagan's the whole Cogan Rick Martel. Stars Tommy in the AWA. I cannot pinpoint one person when I think of the face of the way, this has to be a complete show to talk about a Mount Rushmore, of the Awa just because there was so many great associated with the brand. Well I mean obviously on any Mount Rushmore, but especially the one for the AWA vern. Ganja needs to be on that Mount Rushmore, and you know a lot of younger fans Tommy and we're here with Gregg Gonyea as well. A lot of fans don't understand how big the AWA was Tommy. We did a whole special on the wrestling magazines on how important those magazines were well when you look at the rankings which was at the end of the magazines, which is probably more important than anything else in the magazines when you. You look at the NWEA X. to it would have the world champion when you look next to the AWA it would also say world champion, and then when you look at the WWF would just say champion so I think when you look at the two most important and biggest bodies of professional wrestling, it would be the NWEA and the AWA. That's how I grew up as the order of all and then true, you know, I guess the expansion kind of changed everything, but I wanNA talk about the glory days of. I don't WanNa talk. Negative about the aws screw that stupid expansion are hated. Old COGAN! Well, you know. It was funny deal because I wrestled. Shea Stadium and Hogan was on the card that night against. Andre the giant. and. I was on about the second or third match, and then I went out with some friends style. Andrea Hogan Ahmen. It was just A. It was not a very good match. And Andrei just ate him up and so we're not with PAT, Patterson and Ricky steamboat a couple of the guys when we came back to the hotel and I'm going up to my room and down, the hall is setting the Hulk. As a man. What's a matter? I can't make it in wrestling now. As a yeah, you, can you just need some some better training? I mean you've got. You've got the looks and everything. I just need some work. Why don't you come to the AWA? Someone back and I told my dad about her. So there's this guy in New York as Hogan I said he would be phenomenal here. But he needs a lot of work. Lot at work, he said well. You know have them call me. I told the Call Burnin, took him three months to meet call and we're doing the Phil Donahue show we had done. donnas Jesse Ventura Jim in myself. Some of the girls couple of midgets and we did an hour on the Phil Donahue show and Vern Hogan was supposed to meet us there. He drove from Florida and vern through on the last minute, and a half with Fillon, and he said I'm going to throw them on for an interview and I swam heard. Do an interview and I. I don't know if you WANNA do that like TV. Is Horrible. Vern system. This is the guy. I said Gee. She just needs some help. Saw Burn worked with him on his personality in his interviews Jiminy worked out with them, and we put him in six man tag team matches, and we would die. Take him in at the right spot. We're working an arm. We'd say grabbed the. Toilet Drop League on pay up and we only let him get in when for a comeback or When he we had the advantage, and then he started catching on and got the pace of it and from their houses history. Did you ever feel extra pressure like? I know growing up. There was a lot of second generation wrestlers that couldn't fill a their father's shoes. I really think for your generations. Really you and Kurt hitting the guys that did, but did you have an extra pressure to kind of be like you're the son of Burn Ganja. Now I never looked at it that way Tommy. You know if I did I wouldn't make it and. Be, yourself and that's all I was trying to do is just be myself I didn't. You, know I it was always over my head and people would always. Ask me about it, but. I never felt that way. I just wanted to do my own thing and when we were training versus a pick out things from the people that you like. and. Put them into your own personality and I. Did I took some from Billy Robinson who took a lot from burnt took in the other was read best in and then Ray Stevens, those are the four guys that I really really watched and you know is. The baby faces Robinson. Vern and Best in and then as a heel. There wasn't anybody better than Ray. Stevens was timing and everything, and I really learned timing from him, watching him in getting it and You know any Vaudin just did my own thing and and Jim. I became We played football together, Minnesota I got him into the sport and we got him back from Kansas City. We teamed up and. Everybody said we wouldn't make it and. You know can worked out a little differently. When you look at the Awa and Tommy I talk about this all the time. A lot of the legends Kinda. Get overlooked when you look back and you know I guess are under appreciated or underrated. You mentioned one in red. Bastien I mean read Stephen. I remember growing up. You know he was really regarded as one of the greats and has truly gotten forgotten over time. Why do you think that is? And why do you? It's just because the evolution of the sport. You know I don't know what McMahon I'd I don't get his networks I. Don't Wa-. Nobody puts on there, but. I mean in the Awa going going way back. I remember growing up and my dad's me to saint. Paul Auditorium in the added chemicals. Against Mitchell Eric Allah in Kendra Chablis four heels. And it was bloody match and I was about I. Don't know six seven years old, and we walk him back to the to the hallway where the locker rooms were and I look in and I see the doctor sewn up. Mitsu and and and Era Kala and then I see the camera cops getting sewed up down in another one and I. Turn My dad and I said one thing I know for sure I never wanted to be a wrestler. Gene Kaminsky hard boiled haggerty Leona Malini. You, know Wilbur Snyder Dick the bruiser the crusher. I mean the crusher was A. Huge? Focal point here in the subway. He was it was alleged. Know he was he was. Steve Austin of that time. Receive Austin was the crusher of his time. You know the beer drinker and told it the way. He, he could only tell it. And Mad dog was Sean with the unbelievable personality he added, and and you know what you saw with mad. Dog is what you got I got. Spurs about Mad Docu Kenya bleep. I'm saving them for my own show though okay. Dad I. Know he was he was. He was quite an individual. He actually had been wrestling for about ten years came on a Montreal. He wrestled on the nineteen, forty, eight, a Canadian Olympic team. A lot of people don't know that. That's where my dad. And he had blonde wavy hair and it was about one hundred. Eighty pounds in looked fantastic and. Turn pro. Struggled for ten years, he got hit in the throat and his voice change that he thought like this. He got a couple of teeth knocked out, and he was losing. His hair was wrestling for Dino Portland. and Don had called Vernon said Hey I get this guy. You know he he hasn't. He hasn't done anything anywhere and I'm going to let them go could use them on TV in Omaha and the way back, but he's driving back. Montreal maybe Omaha in Minneapolis TV in both places and virtually we'll just put him on TV. So Meadows last match in Oregon. He he's wrestling some young kid there on the second match and he is, he is so frustrated and his needs again. The throat the teeth. He's losing the hair. He's going to quit wrestling. He goes out in a ring and he malicious. This kid. He throws him out of the ring, bangs his head off. The table lasted. A kid open knocked out. Three people in the front row knocked out two policemen. They held him back in locker room and he's all. Trying to get away and the police are holding them down what he wants to do with them. Don Don says you're nothing but a mad dog. And that's how he got the name came to. Omaha wrestled away. He didn't Oregon. And it. It got over like that name became the champion there and. And came to the AWA and you know the rest was history, but boy he was. He was no fun to get in the ring with. Brunell. I I wrestled mad dog in Minneapolis. And I said to my dad said Hey. What did I do with this Guy i? Mean I see you're all scratched up? Got Bite Marks Sonya. He looks at me. He says hidden places to see that you. And I said then and good luck. Shut. With dog and I go to tie up with him and he hit his hand like the blocks. He company me in. You could feel it down on your feet. You felt like the cartoon character. That was gonNA. Crack. So I hit him back, and we exchanged at the third one. I hit him right over the Ear Inn. He kinda losses. Equilibrium I grabbed a leg and took him down. And went to take a breath in. He took his fingernails and went right down. My back took all the skin off my back God. Someone about twenty minutes with them and I back into the locker room, and I'm bleeding in cut up and they get scratches all remained Bruns L. sitting there in the chair. We had separate locker rooms and he's. Use laughing at me and I said. You got him next Friday and Denver. All the sudden mad dog kicks open the door. And I've seen this form, and he fights in the locker room and all shit. Reach Bend Down Grab my chair and I'm looking at him and he's got that looking at and. I respect you. Can about crafting my pants. And said. So then runs out. GETS THE DENVER WITH HIM. So Jim says what do you do with them and is to hit him twice as hard as he hits you. and. I said and good luck death. Jim Gets in the ring with them. Mad back into the turnbuckle, and he hits Jim and Jim hits him back. Harder Jim hit some harder, and it goes about three punches harder in a hits them in a hit on right on the shot. And dog is to take that finger. Lock it in your mouth was e round. He throws him out of the reigning Jim said I hit the floor. And all I see is a shadow and all of a sudden both feet. Mandak shot right in. My stomach jumped off the apron. Blue all the wind on me grabs me again by the players are back in. The ring picks me up. He hits blast me and he says not diehard. To Jim came back in the locker room. Scratched a bit up bleeding. He's achieve right. I said. That's the man dog man. You better be ready for flight when you get in there. That is absolutely amazing. You're right Tommy. Mr Is a fantastic storyteller I told you. We. What were your other responsibilities in the Awa besides just arrest? I it was just wrestling in any eventually You know I'd handle the the matches when we got got to the arenas and would settle up with promoters. every the different promoters and everyone in that to get the you know with the numbers what the gate were and all that and then then I started Helping with the booking. In the booker said time Vernon juicy just vernon, while he carbon, while he was kind of a guy, but earned the booking, and then he started bringing in myself brought in Nick back with go. Bobby Heenan Jack Lanza. Ray Stevens in. Guys have been around the business a long time and We had all the great talent there, so it was good, so we did the booking than I, did the. TV laid out format for the ESPN and for the for the national for our syndicated program and House responsible a lot for the interviews helping the guys with their interviews. Jesse Ventura when he came in, he was horrible. and have to give him the theme of it. In our flashes back, then I used to teach the guys. Give them a beginning. A middle and a Finnish. You guys fill in fill in the end fill and everything in between. and. Chart Italian their personalities with with the the interview. So, I had a lot of responsibilities. When, guys in rookie, CBO guys, if I had time, I'd have to go out. Given the ring with them once in a while Kurt ending. In those. who a ton of talent that came through there that that Verne train that you know eventually we were. We'd have to go out and put our time in with them to that was part of our job saw would come on myself. We were always around town. But it was it was. Oh Shit I when I started at hall the Damn Ring. You made us all the rain made us referee learning learning the sport from the bottom up and I remember driving this damaging truckin and George scrap iron, could ASCII. He was a character. Tell, you a quick, quick match him and mad dog live TV. And George, he would referee. He wrestled. He took the ring and he said that up. So they're on the TV, match and mad dog cuffs him. And Georgetta plate and knocked the plate. Right out of his mouth onto the Mat. In Georgia's down on his hands and knees in mad dog doesn't know what he's doing that. Jump his around the ring, and the ring is bounce and teeth or bouncing on the map like this in Georgia. Try to catch. The producers back in the watching it back in the in the. Control Room and the producer. The Director Tom Scott for right off the stool lap. It went on for like probably only about forty five seconds, but it was revised seconds so this. Fifteen. It was funny the nail. Greg when we come back because we gotta take a break when we come back I. WanNa talk about the one wrestler I think most people think about more than any other. And as former Awa champion Nick Bach winkle, we'll get into him when Tommy and I are back with Great Ganja. Remembering the tariff vertical. Right here I'm busted open. You're listening to busted opens AWA territory special only on Sirius Xm. Fight Nature Channel, one fifty six. Your home for all things combat sports is Sirius. XM fire nation start. Your Day with Hall of fame pro wrestling talk on busted open. These men and women that build the business. Then the Baruch show keeps you up to date on all things. Boxing boxing is the theater of young expect, and then Aguirre. Loop Thomas, has you covered for mixed martial arts? Joe Rogan is the most important influence in all of them and fighting broken down like nowhere else only on Sirius Xm by nascent on one fifty. Dude record and EC doubling legend. Tommy Dreamer. Take a look back at one of the most historic wrestling territories. The American Wrestling Association. This is busted. Oh Ben's Awa territory special with special guest Gregg Dot. Welcome back to bust it open. Remembering the territory's talking Awa, who better Dhabi than to talk Awa with than the legendary Greg Ganja, Greg Man. Thank you so much for the time today. Matt it's been a pleasure for both of us. If I'd have been any longer than eleven years. I'd really been legendary pro and been around. Dust on the leaves on finally, but eleven to store and out of talent. That's not true. There's people to talk to, but I will say this true story. Two weeks ago, we had the undertaker on, and my producer says to me well I. You know that's it. Bucket list is over I, so wait a second. We still haven't gotten greg. I fucked the undertaker how to talk to Greg. Ganja and Tommy's non because he knows it's true, so it's great talking to you today for you to the undertaker's a great guy. Good good friend. Definitely. I do WANNA get into Nick Bach Winkle, but before we do. I do WANNA get into pro wrestling. You stay because I live in Jersey I was born and raised in New Jersey and. Tommy will tell you. I was I was never a big WWF. N. WWF to me, always came off a little cartoonish, so when the AWA was able to come to Jersey at the meadowlands with the NWEA. That was a a very big deal for me, and my dad took me I have the programs right next to? My Dad took me to all the shows. Do you have any memories that you can share about pro wrestling USA well, you know it was a good concept. It was just too many egos in a way. I, mean you try to bring all these promoters together. You had the Crockett's. It had bill watts a very strong powerful. Egos and vern and the birds wanted put it together, and then you had then you had jerry. Jarrett and Eddie Graham Down in Florida. Eddie was were easy to work with It was it was it was a little tough? They all had their own ideas on wage going. You know you really have to have that. One guy that has the final say. And they couldn't really come to an agreement on that It was unfortunate because by. If, they were to just. Listened in done it. it would have been very hard for McMahon to to compete with it. Right Greg. I did a movie with Ed Asner and a year and a half ago and It was the rest of goes career. He and I had told forgot about the wrestler and he goes. No, I did a movie about burn. Ganja I said Oh my God. Yeah, the Russell and he's like. Do you know dusty Rhodes and Dick Murdoch I said yes, I, do he? They're crazy. Because a great time I had filled me with these guys. They're all DUTT's. And I just laughed so hard, and then him and I were just schouten shit about pro wrestling. You know how much he enjoyed it but film in that movie and you think about that movie and how we see documentaries about the business. That movie was so ahead of its time. Go back and watch it now about you know the training, but it was also like a work documentary. You know it's it's amazing. How like who had that foresight to do that? Movie? That was vern was his how? Ezra was. He gave him Birmingham good friends He wrote me a little note. When Verne passed away, and and and I wrote his daughter when when when Ed passed away, but I talked to a few times he was just got. He was a great guy and fun, and he loved being around the guys because they you know. We had quite a crew here. At that time I could imagine. Then you know while mcdaniel. It was interesting, Ray, Stevens Nick Bach Winkle. Bobby Heenan. You know he's. talked by anyone guys about Nick Bachmann. We talk about him. Get talk about Bobby Heenan because Bobby Heenan Without Bobby Heenan Nick would have done. Really. Really well. You know because as the aws belt. And he was the he was a heel, wrestling champion, and he he. He did it as good as anybody. But once you put Heenan with him and Ray Stevens at electrified that thing. A Bobby Heenan there was there was nobody better in the wrestling business and Bobby Heenan as a manager and in the ring. He was phenomenal. into his his character, and when you put him with Nick It. the chemistry. There was unbelievable. And when I think of Nick Boxing obviously the talk about Bobby Heenan I talked about Nick Bach Winkle as the champion and feud with Hogan and it's it's so upsetting because that feud with Hogan was like right at the caused by gets. You felt the momentum going in. It was dislike and you know they. You know something would happen where you know. Know Big get this Walla. Fide or something would happen or Hogan would get disqualified. Say you know you're just about to get the payoff of this long beautiful story, and then you know the legs got under, but I mean that bill of that feud was absolutely incredible. Well those there's only two people that knew where this was gone was Vernon myself? In? Bern was hesitant. Even tell me. But Hogan got mad because he didn't get the get the title. and. Vern we had had a battle royal in Saint Paul. In. November. In. The winner was forced to be me back WINCO And in the thing it ended up Andrea and Hogan, and they just bumped into each other backed back. And we had twenty two thousand people in Arena. And they just turned flow and looked at each other in the place when dead silent. And my dad's said Shit we got a call a he called Vince right away. Vinci's said Hey. I need Andrea for February the whole month of February. Run? And Andrea and in February of eighty three. And then Hogan and Bach Winkle in April. On Network TV on CBS. CBS contacted us in. Back in the fall, and that's revert. Who's going with the thing? He didn't tell anybody. Wow, and then that that would have been network TV and that's Morgan never came back from from job. When he came back from Japan and come back to the W way and had, and then they called Andrei from us in February so. Oh my goodness, I never heard those stories before Ryota. Heard that you're the guys, the first one I've told a couple of other people at. First, I told all. Told Hogan that when I saw him the Fox, PERMIRA and California. Said if you just hung in these I, never wanted to leave the W I loved it. There is I wagon Oji were to listen. You know when I called you I said. Hey, there's something in store for you. Just hang in here. And you know, don't walk out at least you know. If you want to leave leave, but I would make your your matches here. We all end of December all our big arenas sold out. With him and Jim nine six men with boggling golden. Stevenson Heynen or a blackwell, an I suggest finish that out that if you wanna go go, but don't burn bridges, and I said in you should listen because there's something coming up for you down the road. But is well. Vince Vince GonNa. Pay Me more than. I'll make. Has a ship you you're making. To see that to believe it. But I guess that's what he did. Well my stomach literally just dropped Greg just frigging day daycare. Wasn't there. Imagine could imagine how you felt whole. Wonder why your father wide sheikhdom break his leg I wanna break his leg, yeah! Wasn't that yeah, I mean. CBS should contact as Jim Genteel was he did the NFL football and he contacted vern through the our CBS associate here in town and laid the in. We laid it out at the ocean. Be On Network TV, and now we're going to have the quick Golah. Hogan match. You think of how the business would have changed man that's. I mean Hulkamania did start in the AWA. Players if they all the players in fact when I worked I worked for Vince. You know and they're. They're good people I. I love Stephanie In and Paul and INVINCI- get along with and Linda. On the plane and Stephanie Turns to me and she's. She said were on their. Judd gone where we're going. And she says you know my dad made Hogan. Stephanie. On. My Dad made she got mad at me and I. Said you know. He was with the with the with the WWF at that time and he was. He wrestled honor and he was failing. He came to the FBI who we turn Hogan into the into the monster was. I remember the AWA T shirt Hulkamania Ball Civic Center descended from them from the rest of the magazines, said Yemen. Not, been called factual proof and also, too. I believe Hogan at the end of the run in the AWA was coming to the ring with either tiger. Yeah. Wow, he he he, when I saw him in Los Angeles Los Angeles he's, he said my brother is for these you know. He said, do you remember? What happened the Rosemont Horizon I said Yeah. He said you're the guy we got in the ring and the place was. This were wrestling boxing go. Stevens Blackwell and and heated in the corner, was Jim Ryan Hogan. People just Went Bananas Zoe came out. They bailed out of the ring and Hogan did his pose. And he said what did you do? And I grabbed her t shirt. I told Jim to grab the other side that we toward off real slow he, so that's it. You're the guy that gave it to me. Nice. So well I'm glad I did. I be by Campbell Tommy. This has to be the fastest. Our ever talking to somebody I. Mean I told you about Greg Gone Yeah. He's a legend man. I told you about amusing. Talk and I love it well. You know what I just. Found out from our producer. He's given us an extended five minutes or five minutes more with Gregg Guy with never done this before. Greg regarding an extra five I'm not I'm done. I'm done. Cut it off. What are you doing today? in the sense of US still I know it's hard to follow the business, but you off camera. We're talking about your help. Train people well I. I was you know they're close down now as as you know, right? In fact, the young girl I got down to the WWE I talked to Stephanus Stephanie. Litter background is I can't get anybody to give her a chance. She sent her stuff in so Stephanie looked at. She is a She was on the US gymnastics team four years she was a weightlifter, a cross trainer, unbelievable, really good athlete, and really catch on fast. She had a little bit of an attitude I was a little worried about, but. Straighten that out. Hope. So she went down there, and she did her physical. She did her interview. And then they closed it down because of the virus and I don't know when she'll get called back, but as soon as we hear then we're gonNA. Hopefully get back up to Kenza. Jim and in get a ready. But You know they're they're there. Were we hear a lost my train of thought what you're doing and is doing now. Beside staying indoors. You're just you're helping train at a Kellyanne school. Yeah needs to get a pro wrestling. TJ needs to get on camera. Because wrestling fans love you and remember. They want to hear from you and I know I'll ask you my one last favor question that I've had as well. It's a two part one I help out an impact wrestling and I have been trying to get That company had do like a wrestle rock video so if I could get back up to wrestle rubio you come into town. for Earth, will you? Will you show your great rapid skillful soya? My rattling still yeah the. Shawn Michaels laughed as Ashok yet. To do that in this. Why didn't WANNA do it? This is what the these. LOCAL GROUPS ERA AD agency had a it. And my final. How much did you ate the rest? Greg Gone. was once I started doing it. I didn't like it. It was wrong. Right but you know. he should have done it with a lake, a Kenny mayor, or Saade some bustard. It was it was it was my fault? slaughtered told me about it and I thought it would be good, but it. It didn't work out very good. Nice. I personally love gray gone. Yeah, as a member of the Cobra court I loved Rambo Gray Ganja and I bought the forty five wrestle rock. Rumble Tommy so I. Don't know I'm sure you did. Made history because really only one. And I thought you. Rapping skills were phenomenal Oh, yeah. Would be Ken. resnick outside, Ken, resnick thought. Did. When I'll, vincent stole dollar just kept stealing our talent. WHO's at young lady that just came on. I think it might have been one of our computers that are saying that you're running out of time and. Given me the Right I won't talk any more than. Love to do it again with you. There's a Lotta great stories about the those personalities that we talked about today that those inside stories. Kenneth Saving for what I'd like to do, but maybe we could work something out doing right here and. You know what that's always a possibility. I, mean we. We have our live show Monday through Saturday nine to noon on Sirius Xm. We also have the Sirius Xm podcast. It's doing very well plus our video, and on demand on the SIRIUSXM APP. So so, Greg. You're welcome to come on. And who knows. Maybe we might be able to do something in the future. We would love it all right well. Thank you guys for me on. It was nice talking with Y'all Tommy good senior again. Likewise, my friend take care of her personality love for professional wrestling. Appreciate that, so if you thank you are a great guy, and now I'm retired I. Bet head three back surgeries I find out. Wednesday September fourth one Thursday. Oh, well, we're our thoughts and prayers are with these stop doing drop kicks and maybe. Fell in the parking lot at work. And I know how to fall. exploded. L. Three no four bang three months later after had that surgery at the foreign five. We'll take it easy. Be Safe at thanks so much for the time. Well, thank you very much. They seen y'all. Great joining US Tommy and this is A. Little pleasure. WHO's let's? No, we're of you been. All, the good luck in one comes on. MICKIE JAMES DURING AWA run in wedding. Ben. WHAT THE HELL! Again. Look tell it on. Guys you guys are doing a running on the AWA show. They barely had any women there. They just had sharing Medusa. Cancer a lot. Good Luck, ladies! bye-bye, thank you Mr Ganja. Thank you take. Care Call Me Greg. Awesome stuff Tommy from Greg, Gone Yeah just amazing stories from somebody who really gets overlooked because I think people look at him as vern, Ganja, son, but you know what one hell of a wrestler in the ring and definitely somebody that has a mind for professional wrestling, and another bombshell dropped about what would have been with that wrestling business if Hogan would have stayed in. In the whole CBS Wrestlemainia. Three main event would never may have never have happened. We are dropping bombshells on the show I with Greg. Valentine Midlands at that Eddie he had a deal with companies and now this. Wow, thanks, man! It was awesome. Yeah, man, thanks to Gray Guardian thanks to you. The Busted Open Asian remembering the territory's the AWA right here. I'm busted open. This has been an busted opens a W. Eight Territory Special Schick Sirius. XM demand for more serious except vacation content, and follow us on twitter at busted. Open radio.

American wrestling association wrestling Campbell Tommy Greg wrestling Jim Ryan Hogan Jesse Ventura Jim vern Sirius United States AWA Ray Stevens Nick Bach Winkle Minneapolis Greg Ganja MINNESOTA Tommy Dreamer Verne CHICAGO
WeWatchWrestling Issue #301

We Watch Wrestling

1:35:03 hr | 1 year ago

WeWatchWrestling Issue #301

"This is a head gum podcast. Do you watch wrestling? Creating citation twelve oh, they're welcome. Friends, foes heels. Guilders. Have I shown you? She got the teeth extracted haven't seen if you've because she's got the two frontier missing. So it's, it's door -able by poor per lift. It looked like this. You can hear me. Yeah. I can hear you, can you not hear you. Can't hear me really put. That's all right. I don't like to go to loud, McCann's I, I can hear you. Good. That's all I need really. A couple of the people, maybe just tens of thousands of people. This is that we watch wrestling podcast. We hear each and every Wednesday, three sixty AM three sixteen AM. We watch wrestling, go to watch podcast dot com. Cut you off or even said who you were? Oh, this is wrestling mat McCarthy, that's been on. We gotta live film. Tickets are on sale right out. That's right now, you can buy tickets where can they go? They should go to the link in the, the bio of the show or any of our social media put very easily. You could just go to beat kitchen dot com. We're going back to the kitchen all out weekend. It's going to be a midnight show on Friday, the thirtieth of August after a w will be fucking doing what we do and have done, and it's going to be a party. I, I think the kitchen website is calling in an after party? Well, I saw that look at call it the Awa party which it will be not officially. It is. Money toe and that promotion Martin Marty. Get get word to the promoters out send SAMA Callahan. No, no, no. Or that security personnel for that matter. I was thinking about that this morning. Legit like driving back from dropping off from school. I was just like. Hey has could fuck it up our chairs? Okay. I don't care, you know, I had the weirdest thought as I, I was stopped upon discussed before to go feed Elvis, and his friends, and whatever it is. I'm in the middle of the night. You know, I'm for kicks down the food and for some reason, getting back into bed. I mean I had been watching dominion that night, but you did like dragon corkscrew into bed. No by getting bad in the house, like like Almog, sleaze, got that dog named blue as like man, I won't be to name that after fucking that movie old school. That'd be kinda lame. Now do I hope not I could see that though? I love watching concerts watching wrestler, Woodstock ninety nine great performances of the past for some reason it just up in my head it, I betcha. Is it a hunting dog, because that's like classic. It's English bulldog betting named it up to the fucking moving or maybe his wife did. Yeah. Don't defend him by throwing her under the bus or maybe it's got nothing to do with old school. Maybe his favorite color, maybe blue. What? The fuck. I don't know how supposed to keep up with all this fantastic. Professional wrestling. It's happening just just this past week, right? Lori. Even go to like ten days. Right. What you don't need to cause with, with issue, three hundred and, and, and thank you everyone everyone for the wonderful feedback. We got on that. Yeah. They like road trip. Yeah. Well, you know, the shows better when we have something to talk about. Wow. Well, that's, that's a lesson to learn, I think, in podcasting. Right. What are you doing killed him? You want to see. I don't want to shame this poor and she's result. She's so much happier. Are that like she got those out accolade? Oh. I'm going to see those lack of teeth that's going to happen. She's like she's lighter. She's happier. Just got a better appetite. She's, she's still need to eat a carrot stick. She's playing around more used to write nice frozen carrot when your puppy. Yeah. She likes carrots. But I mean I you know, not not out of the front there. Now keep it keep it ally. De limited ingredient diet. So this morning. I see that what happened velveteen who has, you know, increasingly on his social media platforms. It just feels like sucking up to the company. Oh boy. But this morning, he's just posting all these people who you know, volume over. No who supposedly have gotten bad gimmicks, and made them work. You know, he's like posting goal dust. They made it work. Jericho made it work these people at work. What about undertaker and mankind? But anyway, they were about, you know, what's guards are. Steve Austin got a bad gimmick, and it didn't make it worse. That's what he will are you shitting me? He goes, he goes, he was ringmaster. He made it work. We got got the opportunity to be stone cold triple h gun, I would agree with that anyway, I don't agree with any of it, but he then writes adults who don't accept w sports entertainment, our children, who never grew up, like take it for what it is. And let me tell you me. Let me tell you something velveteen, okay? I completely accept that. It's fucking sports entertainment. It don't mean that doesn't below at times. That doesn't take away from the fact that SOX at times writes put up my call. No one needs to what are you talking about understand, what that aren't like, accepting it as sports entertainment. Let's what the kit is. It's that's why well on a certain level. Perhaps that is why it sucks. Because I, I wanna watch wrestling. So maybe being like stop stop looking for wrestling in. It's like okay, even if you do that, which is fine because look for logic or right nuit, he can I look for any semblance of a situation that doesn't insult me. I understand. Well, it's, it's yeah, I want, I want storytelling. I want. Things to matter. Yeah. From week to week. It's, it's. I can't even get into it all or watched to five, did you because it was like, okay debuted, and he had this great match against Jack Allers. I'll take a look that and then they had this four way to decide who's gonna face Tony set at stomping ground. So I was like, all right. And drake. Maverick was like, I, I challenge you to find a better, you know, our wrestling this week or something like arm. And it was good. I liked it. Yeah. And litter. It's good. Gotta go, you know, an x t to a five I'm sure even made events pretty fun because there's just anywhere. The old man is not got his eyes locked as probably the place to go. While we know what the problem is. I will say Aiden English who's on commentary for two five. Yeah I mean he sounds like a muppet but his totally. I never really heard him talk very much. I don't think you know you'd sing but him talking. I'm like this is like Noga news is good news dude. It's like space. Carrigan news. But geld goalie down. I know you're hot. Well, she'll get she's taking the temperature of the room. Everybody's. Go take a walk them. Do your thing. I don't. She doesn't like velveteen any more than I do right now. I love velveteen. But all right. Here's several things, okay. Stone-cold did not make the ringmaster work. And then they he got the opportunity to be stone cold. Ted DB Ozzy left and then stone cold had nothing to do. That's, that's what happened. That was the best the best thing that could have ever happened for the WWF was for Ted DB AUSSIE to leave the territory. Is he is he like trying to call people out, like quit? Bitching? And just do your told. And if you're good, you'll it'll be fine. I guess that's what it sounds. So I need to talk about this anymore that as you already noted there's way too much good shit to talk about. So I introduced it and I'm retracting it unless you want. I mean I'm not telling you what to do. But who's this? What's going on? I don't know. Somebody tag me I been up Twitter to look at. Vella teams thing. Yeah. It's on. It's on Instagram. Oh, Cardi B. It's just it's all the fucking letters together. I'm like, who's I am card? Dernie be tagged. You know, somebody tagged me at Cardi B at Cardi B. Somebody's Bruno Mars can get together on something. She somebody tweeted at her. So how Cardi B know about Eddie Guerrero, and she says, I used to watch wrestling, my fav- Booker T, Batista. Eddie, triple h edge leader. Okay. That was that was that her, not at who I'm always interested to hear somebody's favorite wrestler. But that is a I think she said it was Eddie. And that's why they were like how do you know about any? It'd be one thing if she said her favorite wrestler was at Guerrero. I believe she did that. I saw my are right, but hold on. You see the question that she's being asked. It says, how do you know Eddie, your how do you know who he is? And that's why she's being like used to watch wrestling, these are the people I like, but he's he or she is doing that, because you originally said that Eddie Guerrero, was her favorite. Oh, I see what? Yeah. I don't understand what this person was replying to grammatically as. Listen. We need to keep it moving here. These were getting bogged down. We're talking about wrestling all wrestling related when you get developing shit though. It's one of those Instagram's stories that's like always on Instagram. That's my problem. I went to Twitter. They did it nevertheless. I, I look I don't expect it. Whatever it doesn't WWE is WWE. And we'll be there on Monday. Yeah. We will probably be the yard house by what thirty two o'clock, Nafir noon just posted up gift cards, lower. Maybe I can't hear you. Keep talking. I'm talking say something again. I'm saying right now. That sounds like it was. Yeah. This is line. That's definitely red redlined. So you, you weren't sure if you can hear me, but. Check it. Check check it. I'm still checking their oh, what? Oh, I could hear it for there. We go. Oh, all that good material, I up now it's still keep talking. I'm still talking. But now, kind of feels like I'm is, is it approaching maybe time or no I'm still good? Maybe unplugged that real quick and just plug it back. Now I'm back not know it. Sounds say, does I don't know. I can hear you fingers crossed. You know, I'll just do this. There's no do overs. We've just got to. I mean we do keep the stuff in a gym bag. Well, is that thing, maybe calibrated in a way? Well, because it's the bop, bop, bop. Yeah. See mine doesn't sound a lot different giant baba about about. That's what we were doing before, when we were tested are Mike. We're just going giant baba. Well, we hope for the best here in, you know, there's always next week if, if I can't appear this week, very quickly friend of the show Ryan with aka hot young Briley is making a movie. He's producing a movie about pro wrestling called he'll, and he is doing it as a crown crowd funded project. So please check out the campaign at sea seed, and spark dot com slash fond slash he'll movie considered contributing. Or just share it with someone who you might think with of school. Yeah, man, that's going to be good. Oh fuck. We're supposed to record a promo for somebody who wants some contest. Oh, I didn't get the I didn't see that memo, I this is what I'm happy to. It was it was. We'll do it after this. All right. This is the this is the show. The show the show. What do you what do you think? I know we, we don't we're not starring guys, but what do you think was the best match? You saw in the last two weeks, basically since an exte- takeover. Wow. Let me let me preface it with this, this question, we can get to that. Yeah. Are you still? Are you still a will Asper guy or you anti will Osprey, so? Oh, no. I, I mean, I haven't been anti, you stay do still hate will Aspreys guts and you wish that he would would drop dead. No, because I still wish we'll Asprey would be horribly injured in a match this, this, this seems like the old days. I. No ever since. I've I have separated myself from we'll ask spray anywhere. But when I turn on new Japan pro wrestling. Oh, yeah. And soon as you stop followed him on social media. You know, that may have changed well, but anyway, I'm doing fine. And I and I like Osprey and. You know, in thinking about the last whatever two weeks or whatever it's been like the, the matches he has had were awesome fucking outrageous from a storytelling perspective. I think there were a couple that I liked a little bit more personally. Like what like the Tana Jay white match. Oh, yeah. Even the, the coal Gargano match. I thought just like a little more storytelling to me, my opinion that you ask me. I really like don't tweet at velveteen. I really like Naito and Bucci. Oh my God. Buck, dude. Now, I know. But Jesus, h I mean, kids, if you haven't, I it's, it's almost it's like, and if you recall yesterday, I told you that I was going to be scrutinizing some elements of dominion, and the reason I said that is because I felt like Jericho and omega, like Jericho's like, oh, Cada Okada sorry. I was like, maybe like you couldn't keep up with a mur- or something. No, no. I'm talking about at, at double or nothing. Oh at double or nothing. Jared mega. He was like, the, you know, those things with the one wing angel in that I'm like, is he blown up. Can he just not hang? And so then I was like, I gotta watch dominion and see, like Jericho Mike. But then he thought that was a great match and I thought he was fine. I didn't I didn't see any of that. Where I'm like. Yeah. Can you not do this at that level? Zia fatty fatty fat fat. No. But, but I thought the Okada Jericho match was was perfectly good. And then he's on oxygen get his hands on them, although tunnel how she looked like he's about eighty years old when he jumped over that rail, but he also looked bad in that in his tag match. Yeah. He's he, he remains dinged up. He's is he done? Do you think he's done? I mean I heard them say something like that. Yeah. But, you know, in, in new Japan Tashi, that probably just means he's gonna like try to die in the ring during the g one I don't know. You know, like I know that's how he's supposed to do the one. Yeah, he's gonna have to go, you know. Yeah, I have no idea. But 'cause remember remember when we heard that like before nakimora even laughed, right? That like Okada or excuse me, nakimora and Tana Ashi like when they were back stay. Yeah. Both looked decrepit like Halloween record Halloween. Sound effects record getting up and walking around. Well, that's what it looked like. When you hop the rail to try to get he was he was a he was stepping like Matt hardy used to step with that, like, oh my God. Oh, band. It was just like yeah. Almost like tic TAC skateboard. Oh my God. That's so crazy. I forgot about that. I still remember the time that Matt hardy ran past me during a thing on a smackdown. You know, just like it was chasing someone geez us who runs like that. Someone who needs a new knee needs a new knee now. Yeah, but so I didn't answer your question. But there have been so many really good match. Now you're flagrantly avoiding the question fucking loved. Shingo and Kojima. I didn't watch that one Indian dominion. I went straight to Naito and in watch box Throwdown with that fucking young boy and carries to the back. Not yet carry back to the interview, and he's like as by this my own boy. Now he did a good job at is. Like I'm gonna need him. He could drive right? Yeah. You could drive drive me over Roppongi. He's like many sake many sake. Me. Yeah. Mocks fucking grab the mic and said he wants in that she won. I mean him and fucking. Okay. So he's in, I guess, everybody's in Kent is in canton. How about that? I love it, there thing of like. Hideo itami. Alive. They don't. I mean they have no place for him. So he's got just do what everybody else does. It's just it's. I just mean, in terms of WWE them being like. Because like Ambrose as the wait out the contract. You know revival can't get released Lucar can't get released, you know, Canales, if we're to believe whatever, dude. Anderson gallows are being a huge sparingly. You know, it's, it's all this shit Sasha. Whoever whatever. You wanna believe whoever's unhappy? I gotta imagine nobody's happy in WWE accessibility dream, but the. But the, the thing with, with, with Kenta when they were like, yeah. Day. Oh, Tommy, you, you get your release. You can leave immediately go back to Japan goodbye. Like they, they were truly convinced. They're like this guy sucks. He has no value. And the reality of it is, is. He got in his own head. They got in his head. We've seen it before any any any fucked himself. He fucked himself in his brain by being like, oh, God. They're going to see him too stiff, they're going to Sam to Steph. Yeah. And then overcorrected and then just couldn't couldn't do anything, right? Once he convinced himself. I can't do this, right. Guess what? You're right. So finally he can go back to Japan and hurt people. Before I before. I watched dominion because I had heard that he showed up, I went and watched a match, he had with mar- Fuji in Noah for the G. H C title. Yeah. Like, oh, six. Yeah. That I that again, I know I was incorrect yesterday when we record the patriots. But why would you say said, I said that I thought that the, the mind games thing was was a five star, but this is I'm almost positive was a five star match. But it's like forty like forty minutes long drama, Google quick and prove that you're on. I think I'm right this time. I'll look it up Mara Fuji and Kenta two thousand six. Yeah. For the belt, you can't hear me, can you? I can hear you. But I can hear it peaking. There's something going on with that, Mike. Do you think it's the Mike is I'm gonna do? I'm going to switch these. Okay. Okay now. Yeah. No. What about now? Now, I switch. Okay. It's the put okay because I just wished the Mike. Now it's happening. We grab the splitter and just go out of one maybe maybe about about this. It's the Moxley Mike. Now. Got on the mocks Mike. We're going to have to. A record a thing at the top of the show that says, we realize some technical difficulty, please. Why would we have to please only comment on the kind of shorts we wear and not the audio on this program moving forward? I'm vamping God damn it. You know, it's, it's one of those deals where you post a picture yourself online on your subject to commentary. Kind of short supposed to wear. Yeah. How would you have me dress of the south daisy? Dukes. The want me to wear gutters. This works. Man, we're doing this on the fly. Oh man. No. That fixed it. So do we need a new board. I have one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean aiming. I don't even know if we don't even necessarily need this board. What's the best match USA? I mean chase Owens. Y'all feel advertise. I don't feel bad for chase. I still I I'll still say poor chase. Sure. Now you got me thinking about the khaki shorts leg. No, no, no. You gotta worry about. But I'm not worried about it several times that we post a photo in there, some commentary on either my pants or my shorts and I just don't understand what I'm supposed to wear now. Well, somebody's got to say something, you gotta say it doesn't matter. Anyway, now, because now the fact of the matter is, whoever wrote anything. Feels bad now and need to know they don't need to feel. I'm just talking. Well, that's just the thing. It's, it's, it's, it's a thing of where everybody who listens is our friend. Yeah. And then they try to get in like a right. But I also think that because of because we there is some separation between church and state very limited anymore that when I start to talk shit like this then. Yeah, someone might feel bad because they don't realize that I don't actually care that much. I am a vamp. You know and start vamping, but that is that is the point that I think needs to be made us like, whoa, we don't actually care. It is just it's like it's all good, baby. It's all gravy anyone. You know, remember when we took those photos with jackets? No, that's what I'm thinking of they're like, oh, you guys all put your phones in your pockets. Like, yeah my phone's in my pocket. Yes. I was clip it on my belt. Any who I think that was even a situation where somebody who's like, oh you wearing, I remember my pants right? They were like an it's like these are genes with. I don't know what the. I guess, you know, I gotta start doing the ran- man, just do the t shirt where it's I guess. Oh, he had pants shirt and underpants. Well, somebody was like, you know, oh, you're just like a dad, and I'm like, I am a dad. And also, these dad bod's, dad bod's. This is he's. Here's the thing. This is the body and the wardrobe that I've had since I was fucking twenty I'm a forty three year old actively trying to kill himself. Here you go. This is what you're looking at. Your kid is you have three cats who are trying to murder you in the morning. Wake up old man. Feeding stop the next the head. Try to get in the mouth. So in closing the best match you saw. We don't care. We know care what the people say, please don't Email. Is here today. I know your politics we're gonna that's all I'm saying, I'm like, I'm like, just, just don't I there's nothing more awkward than somebody apologizing for something that I don't actually give shit about ain't going to happen anyway. The amount of people that have come up to me, at, like shows, or something like there was a guy mania who's like, hey man, I got banned from the group, but I'm like, I don't know what the fuck you talking about. I don't know. I just want to sit down in my seat watch seven hours of wrestling. You know, year, no Yano where where's Yano? Where's Yana where yawn y'all? Why isn't why wasn't he in the super June? I don't know. Man. I it's, it's the thing with. Naito and Abhu. She'd is like. Stop it. Stop stop laying on your fucking heads. Yeah. He already even before Bucci like almost broke his knack, which I don't know how he didn't right? There was a thing earlier in the match where he hath clipped, his head on the fucking apron, pick up on that. You saw that right before he actually obliterated it before you actually obliterated itself. But then they kept fucking dropping each other on their fucking on the top of their fucking heads. Yeah. And it's like you can't do that. What is it? Nothing does your mic smell. No. I thought there was like a fuzzy walkers, some those in my vision fuzzy Walter talking about. Talking about fuzzy want. Do you know what I'm talking about? Is that a thing? I mean yeah it's like you know if you get a little now is that where you're always the best, pulling out something from my childhood that I had complete. I don't know the origin of that. I just know that, that's something that, that I knew you're always, you're always the one who's, like, hey, man. You remember this cartoon I'm like. The other day. What was the presto magic saw? Yeah. I was like fuck dude, like suddenly, I'm back at grandma Farrell's house were because it was unlike a color forum. It was one and done. You had to decide where your shit Ryan because it wasn't coming. Because I 'cause I preferred the one you could move it around. But like those where it was just a color form. Right. That was like, yes. I believe that was in the press. Oh, magic was just like a little folded piece of paper that had a scene. And then you put like you rubbed on the heroes or whatever it was he walks and whatever the fuck there. There was a rock and wrestling, one other must've. Yeah. But anyway, I'll take it from someone send it to you. Now, I would love the archive is accepting presto Magic's, we are. We are accepting magazines presto. Magic's, that's an ex- on the end of magic. I'm looking for this is the part of the show just start of Jeffs is just starts. Bagging furloughs complaining about their. Like valve attuned Drome. The way to litter talking. Oh, god. Five dot. Wouldn't wait in line. Coughing. Hey man line. I, I feel like I'm just trying to p small nice caca. Chad Gable, though, tanned and Jackson got the haircut tan jacked, misused tool, five maybe care, though. Who knows they care how could he not care because cheques, come each week or whatever are often these like? Well fuck it, you know, I could be, you know, I could be at FOX catcher trying to coach or I'll just do this. You know, whatever. The FOX got your farm still there. Right. You know what's funny is I this is actually my notes from the Saudi Arabia show. So so undertaker and Goldberg wasn't one of the best matches us on last two. Now I tell you I was still the beginning of it. I was excited. They actually got me excited. I was like, oh man here comes Goldberg. He'll good. Here comes undertaker. He's can't help it. Bash his head before he comes out fucking do man. Always gotta fuck and headbutts something whatever, whatever. I love Goldberg with gray hair, a pertinent piece of social media that I will give you on. This is someone Jericho was like you know what undertaker Goldberg are legends. Whatever, even if they're match wasn't the best, they're still who they are. And it was fucking cool or whatever. Right. Yeah. And so then someone goes, oh, Jericho trying to like butter them up. So they'll come to AWS something in her goes butter him up. Fuck your ask Kant, and that's a quota that was a Cowell from him on Twitter. Yeah. He must have been. He must be repulsed with some fucking Gregor's or something. Has he went nuclear on this guy? Wow. Broke the glass and hit it. Why his words not mine? Just a report just filing reward. Butter among. Struck a nerve with white to J. Don't question, man. He still waiting on his. Thank you. Bought her a mop. Well. I did watch it was glimpses of the Saudi Arabia Ryo, but not I wouldn't even say all total that I made fifteen or twenty minutes. And I'm not saying well here's the thing being better than whatever. I just didn't I didn't it didn't interest me and I didn't look at it. Now, it's, it's look. And that's okay. If interested you it interested may, that's right. But maybe not big for good reason, just like kind of, like, well, you've always been kind of a beheading guy. You're like I don't know why we don't do it here. Swift, it really gets the point across if you do it, right. You can hold up the head and show. The guy is body. That's not cool man. I, I, I was morbidly curious as the kids say it was like, like wanted to like driving by car crash. Like I wanna look at the fucking car crash, where they're gonna let Corey graves in the country. Fuck it. And I just wanted to see them in a hundred like hundred two degrees in the middle of the night. Just sitting there just like yeah. Fuck. What did the fucking what did the play by play guys say, like, oh, I thought Rene was gonna butcher our names. It's like the juicy that part they had. They had guys from Saudi Arabia doing play by play and Rene through to them. I was just like, oh my God Renee as there. But of course, like from naked, the last one or no. I thought she may be did the anyway, doesn't matter. Yeah. I also was like, okay I don't remember. Yeah. It would have been fascinating because apparently Alexa and natty were there was, like, John. I know you don't work name the only way I can do the show. You have to sit behind me to be sitting behind me, a share my husband. It's the only way I can do the show. I'm sorry. I'm not we had to lie to them and tell them I was married to Michael Cole. The so she throws to them. Yeah. Guys. Like, oh, I thought I thought it was going to butcher our names. And it's like. Didn't y'all motherfuckers? Just cut up a guy. Fucking god. How could she possibly know how to pronounce her name? They, they don't let her go to school. Do they? Right. But now the Saudi Arabia show was terrible. Who I if somebody liked it, if somebody's actually going to be pissed off. Like I'm like I got nothing for you. That show sucked, watch the super junior's where I spent my time. And this isn't a thing of, like oh oh, Meltzer if that match take place in the Superdome you give like that is one of the dumbest fucking arguments, you'll ever see on Twitter. This show is us talking right about we like, and it's okay if, if opinions differ, the time, I did spend was in that big old data. Royal. I was so excited for that 'cause I was again, I'm just like how the fuck gonna fit fifty. These mother fuckers in their. Yup. And then sure enough and Titus gets his own entrance, and boy, was it a mass, but nevertheless, hey man, I enjoyed it. I, I knew what I was going to get. And I went in and I enjoyed every bit of. Yeah, probably for all the wrong reasons, but fucking, not the wrong reasons, I still enjoyed it for all the reasons that WWE didn't intend for me to enjoy it. Yeah. You know, like Shane just fucking see this is what it made me think of when you brought up FOX catcher, this is what I wrote the only note I wrote down for Saudi Arabia was Shane is now the guy from FOX catcher meaning like the scene in that movie where like, he would wrestle them, and they would kind of, like, yeah. Who let him think he could wrestle? So he didn't kill him. That's what utter is that who shaded now. He's the rich guy. Who owns the thing goes out there to wrestle, like they're like, okay, no. Definitely right. Yeah, like oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Gave it to me out their boss goof. What did you think about mocks juice was wild it felt like fucking early nineties felt like like late eighties all Japan? Yeah. It really did feel like it felt perfect because I was like you know what fuck they don't. They haven't done this in a fucking minute of, like, you know, the wild brawl. Yeah. Jericho is kinda falling into that. That's kind of this new Jericho is the, the bruiser Brody type guy. Yeah. Which which is fine. But it there is an aspect of like it just feels when, when I watched Jericho I enjoy it. But ultimately, I just feel like oh, Jericho's just reinventing himself. He always does. Yeah. Whereas moxley. I buy it Moxley. It feels more like like Brody Moxley. Biting him was felt on this one hundred biting his that picture that seventy is fucked. Yeah, the picture is fucked. Yeah. The hard the hard way, open is uncomfortable. Yeah. Well, if you're not highly race it gets uncomfortable because it takes to fucking long. Right. 'cause I one point when they're outside he was just punching him in the head as many times as he could. And it's like fuck dude. Like if it ain't happening, then somebody needs to have a plan b it's one of the things I'll always remember from Mick Foley. First book is he talks about how good Harley race was at how much he would enjoy it. And how anybody anywhere he, he could punch you, right above the eyebrow and just bust you open, and there was one match cactus was working with Vader and Harley race was getting ready for the spot any picks him up. And he goes back to do it. And he said, the look of disappointment that just washed over Harley down that cactus was already bleeding. It's like damn I was gonna have some fun tonight. But the that match was great. What do you think about juice with no dreadlocks? I never thought I would miss them. Yeah. I go back and forth on juice. Sometimes I love juice. And then sometimes just like okay like it doesn't just sort of whatever with him. He's it felt like he had figured it out. And then I know what you mean. There are times when you're like this just what is missing. Right. But that the super junior final with offspring Shingo kill. It was. Yeah. Fucking dynamite. Did you like that better than the dragon Liaz rematch? I think so. But your big Shingo guy, but, you know, the other thing I'll say is I watched I watched the super junior final on new Japan. And then I watched the last whatever matches that they played on access on my TV like a couple of days. That's right. You said that. They cause right around on Friday. They played like the last. The played like the last rematch, and they was like Moxley's match the final, and the, the J white tunnel. She match where the matches that they played on access. In fact, I was just reading that for the G one that they're going to, like turn those around, like almost right away. Really? Some of them are going to play. Like I think I think they said, like as a tournament goes, they're playing the first one live from Dallas, then it's going to be like, basically the day after they'll play them on access except for the semi the semis in the finals, which will air like a little bit later but they're trying to trying to break in man. Yeah. Well, I get on a channel somebody actually fucking watches. Oh, will you stop that, you know, that network is owned by Mark Cuban by William Morris. Bye by Philip Morris. Mark cuban. That's why that's why they're probably running that fucking arena, Dallas, man. That's his fucking, the cube house, wasn't he trying to start some women's rushing wrestling promotion. Well, wow is coming to access. That's they're moving their moving new Japan to Saturday. So it doesn't compete with smackdown Fridays, and then they're going to have while be the early show and new Japan will be the late show every Saturday on there. So he's somehow involved in that will what time on Saturday. It's like eight and nine or something idiots. Yeah, I don't know. They're going up against fan goalie the fuck. I was gonna say when I saw the room to centers like oh, it's like Saturday morning. So it's like you know, whatever tune into new pan at, like, ten AM. Did you watch all of that movie the car? No, well, no. I didn't make it to the end. I got pretty far in there, but I couldn't get to that, when you me that you, you were like, did you watch Fengling like such a weird fucking movie? I'm so happy were watching it. Yeah. It was it was something else. I mean w weird because I just watched maximum overdrive last week on justify movie collection. Cool. Looking car, the evil car thought was cool. Yeah. Looked like it had like a face. It was kind of there was was there any anybody behind it ultimately or was it just the car was possessed or something? Now, I don't remember I was doing other things moving on this is why the main reason I put on Saudi Arabia. Was because I was like you know what I feel like watching wrestling, but I also feel like getting things done around the house. Yeah. And I'm like, that's the thing I can have on and enjoy it more glancing at it than actually sitting down and watching the whole thing. Yeah. And then by the time it came to undertaker Goldberg it was time to pick up Jack. So I like I threw it on my phone and I was driving in the car, and I was like, wow, this'll be quick, or as soon as soon as they kept mentioning that Goldberg was the, the face of WCW. I was like, oh, oh, he's losing. Yeah. Of course, you know, sometimes like Vince fucking get over it. I don't know. You one. Make make. Why can I think of the word example out of him? It's like dude, we get it. Yeah. I don't know what happy uses. But sometimes Monday night beers Avila. Mike viola will start watching Ron his phone, but I've never asked him. What he's what he's using. Maybe maybe through cable, sometimes through your cable. Yeah. Where does Monday night beers happened now? I would say nine and a half times out of ten the roost. Which is also where I'm waiting to rider bar on Monday. I was like planning to reshoot the box video with me. What's great? Is. There was too many people there, there at a certain point, you can even see, like half on the wallet. Where it says, roost. Yeah, yeah. So it's so perfect. Yeah. How is that even possible and it's his entrance video? So every time he comes out new Japan there it is. There's the ruse away from home. God. Yeah, I actually thought for a second. I was like you should show it to the lady who runs the roost like like she doesn't know shot a video at her place. Well, the other lady who's like sort of more of the daytime person, I was asking her about it, but she didn't know course, not nobody has answers, but I I'm guessing mocks wasn't there. No, otherwise. Why, why obscures face the whole time? Yeah, you just see his back and then the bar that's being cut up is not the root our obviously van, but it's a different. I just mean, completely different color, you mar-. Oh, get out of here. I tell you this much. E oh Shirai, did you watch all of takeover? Yes, she is. Like perfect, like every everything she does is just a waste of movement, right? There's no there's not an ounce of fat on anything. She does you know what it was too was because I'm just watching are I'm just like this woman is just like seasoned fucking incredible. Sure. But what sealed it for me where I was just like almost fucking dropped my soup. I'm like, that's, that's my new catchphrase. I don't know if you know that almost I always dropped my soup you're big soup guy. That's why you call me out when our soup yesterday lunch. I know they brought you the soup and you're like, oh, I got a super this. You mother fucker. Almost dropped it was when she did the six one nine, which is then Baseler. Yeah. But who who's who's, who's the mama, Mia guy? The mama, Mia guy. The play by play guy. What's, oh let's see. His face bipolar. Rockin roller. I can't think of fucking name. I keep wanting to save its Russo and I know that's not. Right. His name is. Geez. How that's. Which coffee I understand, now, addressing the, the young man screaming this car. I understand you know what his name is. Morrogh Morrogh or Nao. I am worried now that the way I sound in my headphones, now I'm worried that I'm not on the first part of this program, but it'll be okay you are. It was better for me some now, some of the crazy shit. I said, I know flying off the handle you like you. You you booking. A flight to Orlando to call velveteen out in the parking lot, hate velveteen dri shot. You hate well spray. You hate wrestling. It's fortunate. Yeah. Morrow said what the the six nine is. Whatever they call Japan guy. Maybe I wrote it down like the tiger face kick or something, I am interested to watch, you know, the there's that show on vice. Now, the wrestler wrestlers or whatever that, that Damien. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is doing. And I heard the one on stardom really good. Oh, I'm seeing him yet. Well, well, well, well, tell him hawk. With the where the where the six women at w from stardom. Where they came from. Yeah, I don't know. They're from promotion. It makes sense. I guess, by look it it's. No Arja tars from Japan on a map, you know, it's so funny kids, as we actually we both scratch, our decks, when we do that voice, you can't even see it, where rose. I'd say. But it was when she did the six one nine I was like that was the best cleanest Crispus six nine I've ever fucking seen in my life. Like it's, it's just we'll raise heads of an e problems. Okay. Even when Ray was in his prime, there's still some wonk to it where like her. It was like if you took like like a like one of those balancing things with, like the little air bubble in the middle. You see next next to the someday funny. I've got the hammer and the, the balancer like when you're hanging a picture, or something level, a leveler, if you put that on her leg when she came like it would have been is totally level. I was just knocked fucking outlets like when she does that fucking moon salt. You're just like this is incredible. Yeah. You know. Like, when when we went and saw king crimson, and Adrian blue was sitting at chair, like a action figure would with no bend of the knee. Twenty minutes, then we turn to which will I thought you like these guys know I said, I don't think there's enough marijuana on the planet to make me get into this more more dudes wrestling show in here all sitting on the fucking ends on their hands. Watching three drum sets a bunch of Buchan noodling. South funny now for us, if you're big Chris king crimson fan. That's fine too. Yeah. I can see why people are into it. But it's so funny like Jethro toe was like I was because I when I got these tickets man, and you're like, oh, cool. Cool. I'm like, oh, I didn't know right? I'm open anything. But yeah, man e oh yo, yo, and I love Kansas. Get involved in psych. Okay. Seems like we're headed for big six woman tag. Yeah, I liked that. There was just a standalone takeover. I'm always I'm always game for takeover because they're always fucking good. I tell you the same thing happens to me, every time I watch takeover. I'm like, okay, this is this is where I jump back into watching it every week. And then I can't even keep it's so funny. When people like oh, you gotta watch not even wrestling, the like, oh, you gotta watch this show. You gotta watch that show. Mike annex t u k I'm like, I don't have time for watching the shit, but I do want to see are you saying, you don't wanna go wrong, but you wanna stay home and watch three hours or something else. I'll go to rods. It's the golden to staff and grounds. Is it? Yeah. Oh man. The stomping ground many signs you bring in seven Jack Lanza is God. What are you going to do? What do you put on there? You can't fuck up a cheeseburger, Jack Lanza. Just quotes the quotes. I'd rather suck turtles on the Johnny Carson. Josh, I'd rather suck turtles dick on the Johnny Carson show. Then go drink with you. Big time. Oh damn. I, I. I'm now considering bringing sign that just says, double meat double cheese. Where are we setting? We sit where we always sit man. You know, the seats I like oh, good. And hopefully this time Bill talk you into getting one of those Rome, invests finally get one of those don't have my size man. Well, maybe this time they will. Maybe they've re upped maybe you're full of shit. Man. Maybe I am. Maybe I am. Maybe I should play your Mike back into the other outpout get on it. You'd love that. We don't even need that thing anymore. We can just well now that we're using the new zoom. We can't we need different courts to plug into the bottom of that. New courts. All right. Well with different. Things on the bottom. Take a look here. Go in there. No. Not with these doesn't just snap in Lanao Jim. It has no snaps. See how the the old zoom is just smooth. Yeah. I think that just hold it in though when she go. No. Anyway, try, we can try. I, I told you I made I made a purchase from. I've EP videos. I got a nice little gang at. Yeah. Got got real heavy into Shinya Hashimoto. That's right. I went looking through I don't have a hard copy of the oh, five. Oh bet. So I'll have to read it on the on the. Yeah. He, he died really young. He was like forty right. Yeah. But I just started watching what I could find. And then, you know he started zero one I so then there's that stuff. Some pump to get those DVD's but there's, there's some stuff on, on newsman world, but also there is a couple instances in WCW. He shows WCW dude. What year there's a match with? It's a tag match where he's in there with the fucking free birds. What? It's like it's, it's the, the stark as one like a tag tournament where where they, he they, there's a couple of matches that they, they make it through before they lose out of the tournament. And I think I read that he was like a replacement that it was supposed to be somebody else. And then he ended up going, you know what town this was in. No. But it's I could easily you know, find out but. Testino and just looking at Vince is sure this is this is the this is the shirt that gnarly brought me back from Japan. The, the old Destino with Naito and the mask overs, face very ornate. We'll say these extra large don't leave any any extra room now. They leave very little to the imagination was my dad bought his out. Was was he wearing the head band back then? Definitely I love that pulls it off as part of his intro. Just a bad motherfucker, Batum on the phone that guy like who? Like was super super over. Yeah. Like really fucking did it? And, and then as you'll read in the OBE it, he compared it's fi, but he compares it to them, turning Austin. He'll where they, you know, they, they kinda fucked it up really ever. He. He never got back to where he was. Why what do they turn them? You know they beat him. No. God. They who somebody was coming in captain new Japan. Coming in. And they beat him and then he was supposed to get like get get beat, and then and then get his an and then fucking the decision was made. No to beat him again. And just. Yeah. Wow. Like wins and losses matters something say what? How did Friday man when I have four computers out, trying to get those all out tickets. Well, what's amazing is this will not be your first. This won't be your last time getting tickets to all out. It's gonna there's a will there's a way always. If there's like kids picture in your mind tickets to a hot pro wrestling show just laying in the desert. Like you look up in the sky, Vince, April circling around. He's going to figure it out. Yes. One way or the other. Yes, I will not rest. I haven't been keeping up on. Because there was too much current stuff to watch twin annex, t Saudi Arabia super, junior's dominion. I haven't moved the needle at all on my world class outing, your excursion, my Scourging. I did you came in. I was watching it again. Because again, I'm like, all right. I'll set up the equipment. Do everything I can to fuck up Vince mic input. And so I put it on for a second time. Ten rue and Kuwata. Yeah. Versus STAN Hansen and Terry. Bam. Bam. Gordy sons a little snug. Holy shit. I mean. To my recollection. Nobody dropped on their fucking head, but the it is stiff as the day is long. Yeah. And it's, it's incredible. It's one of these matches to or I'm like this. Not only does this hold up. It's still like better than I mean 'cause I, I was even, you know, compared to spare, but I was like I just watched well, I spray, and dragon Lee. Yeah. Which I might like better than the final than the finals. Because there was just so much. I mean it's it it's one of these things where you just like. Is he wrestling underwater like how, how does well Asprey manage to just eat? It's like it's like before he even lands. He's already on his feet the, the body control is. Yeah. It's eerie. Yeah. And it just doesn't it feels like a fuck in a movie like it feels like he is on a harness act. He's out a harness that has been digitally race. I'm I'm gonna pitch that they call him the special effect will offer his special effect will Oz fray, get the fuck out here. Special effect will is Ray Waddell, pool. I wish I could quit. You will you stop. I have Massawa verses KOTA fourteen. Discs, fourteen tapes me. And, you know, it's funny, I wish I had the menu in front of me because it was, you know, who whoever, whoever these tapes originated from puts his name, but his name on it, it's like Cabey's, you know, K K H is. Yeah. Massawa versus Collado LA shot at himself, right? Yeah he owns it. Right. It's like when these people put up like wrestling footage or something on YouTube. They're watermark. And yeah. Or like in the in the description, they're always, like, wow guys, one hundred thousand views, thank you so much. Let's really, let's do this. You know, you guys are the best and it's like you have literally nothing to do with this. You people are watching this, because it's up here for free. So disc one is the prologue. Okay. We're not even into Mesaba versus coda yet. Now, you need a prologue where in the prologue, we are setting the stage. Okay. And the first matches from nineteen eighty eight STAN Hansen and Terry Gordy versus Kuwata and ten row. Twelve sixteen December sixteenth nineteen eighty two to be exact. Here's the. Is the info on the match. This match will be for shadowing for later on here. Kuwata is the youngster out of his league later this role will fall to Kobayashi and then Akiyama watch as they destroy kuwata's knee God. Remember that for the December nineteen Ninety-three tag match the all-time legendary June third, nineteen Ninety-four match. So, like five or later, they're going to pay off. They are still like talk about fucking booking. Overarching story talk about booking a program because I'm watching this batch, and I'm like this is a killer killer match. I'm thinking what the fuck. This is have to do with anything even match accents back started feeling better. At some point. I mean I met Bob Morton junior, the cast was gone. Well, yeah, but, but even the spot when he's outside when stay like STAN Hansen starts ripping his fucking tights. He's wearing long pants and he starts ripping at them and just kicking the shit out of his knee. That match was incredible. Yeah. Fucking out of this world and credible. I should look at the star rating. I'm sure you're gonna guess it was five stars. Weren't they all men the somewhere to somebody? But the, the thing of it is, I mentioned this to you the other day. I always thought the all Japan ring was ugly the canvas. Yeah. Half of it blew half of it read like classes. Just diagonal across the across the rig, and it was not until I watched this match that it occurred to me. How perfect it is. Because in attack because it's because when a match starts you got to be over in your corner there over there corner. And there were both chomping at the both teams chomping at the bit like bam. Bam is standing there, just like ready to murderer motherfucker and, and sorry, Brad Hart. But it was nineteen eighty eight Terry Gordy hadn't had his brain removed yet. But it was suddenly I was like, oh. One of them is in the blue corner. One of them's in the red corner. And then when the tags the match actually started, and we were going into the tags and stuff I was like, oh, fuck this completely adds to the, to the drama of it, because it's like, oh, he's, he's, you know, they're beating the shit out of Kuwata over in their corner. He's a no-man's-land. He's deep in the blue section. He's gotta get back over into the red. Right. I was like, oh flock, yeah. Also it just occurred to me that tag tournament without sock. Mount with hush modem, w oh, that's the Jimmy jam version. Oh, listen. I know what Terry was air couple powderpuff wrestlers. You know what I mean? As soon as you mentioned that it was WCW. I zoom TAM's Jimmy jam came. Down. So, so I watched that. That's the first thing I've watched of just cracked the disks all. Well, you know what it is? You know what else has been taken up a lot of time. I've been watching I've been going through the Henry tapes that we got. Oh, yeah. The first one I went into was. The two thousand six. Saturday night's main event, the, the, the revival of that. Yeah. Fascinating fascinating to watch. It's got all the original commercials in it. You know, it starts off with, like the very end of extra extra extra. And, you know, they're talking about like, and it's so funny, some of the celebrities that are still relevant, and some of them that are Jessica Simpson. Yeah. But the. You know, the, the desperate housewives was still really hot. It's just it's, it's, it's hilarious watching. Yeah. So then I watched some of that, you know, and that, that was a hot show too. Lot of angles, not a ton of in ring stuff, but super good McMahon, making his presence felt I will I do want endorse. I've EP videos though, because good like especially if you wanna best of, of a guy. Yeah. I mean, it's all stuff from Japan, there might be some ExCo and stuff on there. But, like if you want to see even if it is, like, you know, an American guy in Japan, but they but he puts together these best dubs, but also like Tori, Ma on and Mitch and Oku pro, and that kinda shit is all available there and all his disks are like two ninety nine so you get you can get like a full disc of matches for fucking three bucks. So it's, it's kinda good. I don't you know, there's, there's, I don't get anything out of that. I'm just I'm just letting you know that it's a good place to get you. This is what I'm saying. You don't have to. You don't have to be, you know. Mietinen bootleggers and back alleys. Like I do. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to be like sniffing around the valley putting yourself in situations. You shouldn't be in all of a sudden, we're behind a, you know, a truck one of the semi trailers where like we're about to get rolled. That's it. I'm out. Ow. Yeah. I was a great day record a promo on the person who fucked us on the tickets. I remember station. You were walking away on your phone. I believe you're talking to a woman, but you brother, no one hundred percent. Stamm anyway. Well, it's so funny, too because I was 'cause you got hot but I was like, man, Vince is walking away. He's really mad. And then later, you cool, you're like I just want to do this new the gas pump because they say, like, don't, don't be on your cell phone your the gas on its go. And I was like, oh, but I was pissed but we wound up with better seats than we would have because it was all worked out. It worked out better. We got we had that situation. Then as discussed the guys tried to mug us behind the trailer. I I got the chair over here. I finally tried to take the chair from us after people kept asking how much was the chair how much you want for the chair. Yeah. Like nothing please go away. Please leave me alone. I'm getting on the train. Now. Goodbye. I finally the storage unit is totally empty now, Don finally done Finally, I had a few more is an to get the chairs were there that box has a bunch of trading cards in it. Looks like Harper's monthly to me, but month monthly monthly Harper's montly that box is actually from that bookstore that used bookstore Burbank that closed movie world or Costa world, whatever it was. And then these are just boxes. These are. Yeah. These are four magazines because I, I went to Staples and I was like 'cause I grabbed like to. And then I was like, fuck it. So then I just bought all seven that were on the show because I was like you know what? I'm when I need them. I don't wanna have to come back. There you go. Shout out to the juice agent Gianni Russo he sent me basically because he's cleaning out his place. So all of his doubles of WW magazine from oh, five to the end of the run. Gianni Russo the, the juice, no doubt. So watching the, the Henry tapes. And also, this is this is it's, it's we're watching wrestling. We're watching an old videotape. It scratching so many issues that I have. After the rent. So now after the wrestling's over now I'm real interested. What else does I what, what else does on this tape? It's a there is a marathon like a number of episodes. Literally, the game show network was doing a marathon of you, remember when they brought back twenty one. No with Maury Povich. No twenty one was the game from which the channel changes and the recording Twenty-one while I see, I don't know what year this is from. Yeah. Because you know how like an old videotape. It's all of a sudden, you press stop. And then whatever was on the tape. Yeah. Still there. Twenty-one is the game from quiz-show. Okay. You remember the the, the movie with what's his name? Yes. Row fines Ryan. Raytheon's. Roger, I don't know. I think they were both in it. Ray stevens. So it's a bunch of those then after that, now we've jumped back three years, there's a late show with David Letterman from two thousand three. Are you like that love that the full episode of that I forget, who the guests are on it, and then? Right after that, like the first half of the late late show. Craig kilborn. Yeah. You believe that your late late show? Great Kilborn point fucking guy. Wow. So. Yeah. Old school. Yes, he was it all comes back to old school. You're do you think Moxley sits there, and he's like your dog blue your dog? Do we? Oh, god. You're right. Fucking like being right all the time cheese. Oh, five stars five stars. Hey, then, yeah. Man, you guys are terrible taking care of their health weather's knee injury, bad back or something worse. Yeah. Guys are usually more comfortable rubbing some dirt on it that seeing doctor. I mean I'm guilty of it myself. I know you are I'm over to him. I physically my brother. He thought he'd just jammed a finger. He broke it and it still broken into this day. He's actually remember, he relearned, how to type. He's like, yeah. Just kind of working around it, you're going to write the same is true for erectile dysfunction. Studies show seventy percent of guys who experienced e don't get treated for thankfully Roman credit, an easy way to chat with Dr online with Roman. You can get medical care for ED if appropriate from the comfort and privacy of your own home, you can handle everything online with a convenient in, in a very convenient totally discreet manner. Getting started to simple you just go to get Roman dot com slash we watch. W. E. W eight. T C, H U completed online visit if your doctor decides that treatment would be appropriate than they can prescribe genuine medication that can be delivered in, discreet packaging. Right. Your door with free two day shipping. Hello, two days later. It's there. Dies. Go talk to the doctor erectile dysfunction can be tough to tackle, but it's really important to get checked out with Roman. It's easy to connect to a doctor. Just go to get Roman dot com slash. We watched to get a free online visit and free two day shipping. That's get Roman dot com slash. We watch very free. Visit to get started. Get Roman dot com slash we watch. Oh, yeah. Tribe, the other tape, I started watches lollapalooza, second-stage ice cube. Tribe ice cube was on a main stage. Julia tribe, I know them from the judgment nights out. Tra. Right. Probably. Probably make sense, high Gilda. What's up girl guilty? Mom him to Michelle only like hell. No. Ain't gonna shame me over here. Wow. I'm wrapped up on this cords, all wrapped up. You better hop up second tape. Tuck type. Yeah. The second Henry type home like all Mattie. We'll have a lot of technical issues today killed compare giving. Why is she scared to me? She doesn't want she's afraid to take a picture and put it online just wanted to be the avatar for the show this week. Gilly. What are you doing? Oh, she's got her tour. Oh, she's got her tiger. Oh, she chewing on her are. Starts playing on a dog and all that dogged. The lights went out can't see the. Say the dog tape. The second tape just said on it. Let me get it right. Nineteen eighty-seven wrestling TV shows number eight okay? Six hours which begs the question where are tapes numbers? One through seven n Ray. Ray. This. This is one of my absolute favorite tapes. This is totally. Just. It's like fell in love with this tape. I fell in love with this tape love at first sight. This is such a say six hours on the label or was it a six hour tape? Both okay. This is this is an incredible potpourri just a coast to coast host to coast. The toast the buttering toast. It's everything you could think of from the time. Periods. WWF. Some NWEA and even like a random Awa match. What you're eighty seven eighty seven. Wow. So it starts off with edits and it's, it's not the full shows either there's just it's just bits and pieces of everything and some matches here and there and he local commercials. Or even commercials of any kind network nationals like you know about you and your wife know about. That's right. This one not so much. I've been going basically what I've been doing is a couple nights a week. I'll I transferring the tapes to DVD. Yeah. And this one, so I, I haven't sat down and watched all six hours straight through. But I've gotten the flavors of I forget, who the match the so the Awa matches the midnight rockers against. I'd have to rewatch it. But they win some sort of about or something. Yeah. But it's fascinating because this is all like straight straight up nineteen eighty like this is a table and in the machine and shit got taped, as it's just like, oh, I'll take this one. I'll take that one. I love it. Yeah. The beginning of the tape is almost exclusively. Vignettes pushing the wrestling out to pile driver. Yeah. So like, you know, honky tonk man is waiting to perform at a at a bar with Jimmy Hart. You get, you know David Wolfe talking about the engineer talking about it a bunch of stuff like that. Then there's a bunch of random stuff this, I loved some of it from, you know, prime time wrestling, some of from superstars is Ken patera just got released from prison. Right. Yeah. And they're doing vignettes, like some, some little vignettes of he just got back him him. It's incredible. Because the angle that they take is that he's kind of blaming Bobby Heenan for what happened. Okay. And what's interesting too, is there's a you'll love this, this is so WWF. This is so Vince McMahon. It's just Gino Caroline about to introduce this segment and is, gene, of course, wearing his tuxedo black background. No crowd noise. Just him talking directors the camera, very serious, like almost like the Charlie rose show as serious as a bit in prison, s and he's like. Ken patera and a and another wrestler, they never say, yeah. Saito. It's always like, and I am a co-defendant. Yes. Served their time. And when you think of all the murderers, rapists, and other legit say this on the fucking thing that had to he's like he had to serve two years. And all of a sudden it's like Ken pateras the fucking victim here. It's incredible dude. It's incredible. Yeah. And compare only beat up ten guys. They skip over that part when they put fucking a couple of cops in the fuck and hospital. I guess wanting a cheese burger is a day will realty. Now they were refused service. They, they play it like, oh, he's they say refused service. Yes. Hi fused service. They make it seem like he did two years for throwing a rock throw window. It's like no. You was common vandalism. Yep. Beat up a fuck and cr-. Crew of police officers says he couldn't have a Big Mac. You idiot you. You earn. Then credible. So they have him confronting Heenan and even have like a bit, where he's like sitting in quarter hour, is it was it supposed to be Hino's McDonald's. How was he involved in this close the shop? He I know. I know. Well, it's also it's because he abandoned him. And it's an and he, they do a bit where he sitting in his quote, unquote, prison cell and he's talking to the camera, and he's talking about how like Bobby never came to visit them. Yeah. Bobby never wrote him. He's had a manager. I had food waiting for me as soon as I had to get my own food. I don't know what to do. I know I'm going to rewatch all this. So I can catalogue. What's where what it is? It's like it's somehow, it's somehow can patera did nothing wrong. The system is broken. Yeah. There's murderers, rapists, who should be doing hard time can prepares innocent, man, and Bobby Heenan is the one that did it. Oh, wow. It's a thing of. Fucking beauty. Do while. Yeah, that's huge huge chat. Yeah. I forget what some of the NWEA stuff and then there's there's, there's a couple of great matches from, you know, prime time. Get what the there's definitely some Tully Blanchard in there. It's a great. It's a great tape. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like it was a pretty cool tape six hours to labral six hours. Nineteen eighty seven ten you don't have time to watch any. What whatever you're watching smackdown live to doing it for you. Need six hours of some pay from whenever? Matt your snoring into the microphone. Oh, oh, Dan. So I cleared out the, the storage. You remember when that thing flooded? Oh, yeah. Right. That was the fucking sad day. I this, this was still in there. I forgot about the it's totally dry now. You can see it, this piece of yellow legal pad, the ink ran all over it. You know, this is no. This is a I hold it in my hands kids, guess if I wasn't actually holding in my hands, could I make this noise. One day sitting in the production meeting at WWE ward, Steph, yes, I decided, this actually might have been waiting for Vince to show up kind like the hours and hours were sitting there doing nothing. I went online and made a list as best. I could every match that involved hulk HOGAN and Roddy piper. Oh. Trying to sort through. Wow. What did I have? What did I have what I need to get my hands on? Beautiful handwriting. Now, let me ask you, if you're sitting in that meeting, and it's been thirty minutes or so, and Vince hasn't shown up and, and you need to runny of yourself. Are you are you? Okay to go to the bathroom and run back or you to scared. You gotta wait because if you're gone when he shows up your FOX is it that kind of deal, or could you have definitely there's there is a element of Matahari fuck up. So don't go to the bathroom you just well. If if I was in the meeting with you, and you're like I got a fucking Mike, the run. Yeah. You just try to get back here as fast as you fucking Ken. Yeah. Interesting. I mean, I, I would figure as much, but it does there was the morning I fucking I got lost wall Rina, and I and I like walked like I literally walked two miles out of my way with all my bags and in the sun like I remember leaving, I remember walking out of the hotel, Cody Rhodes was the last person. I saw he's like sinus monographs, and he goes, hey, man, see over there, and then fucking two miles later, and I'm drenched in sweat, go inside. And I sit down by the time Vince finally showed up I was composed again. And they, they even said to me because everybody that's all anybody was talking about. They're all laughing about it. And they were like if I if Vince had been there, and I showed up drenched in sweat looking to shoveled 's and with all my stuff. They're like you would have been so over. He would not have stopped laughing he would have fucking love, you know. Yeah. Then every time I don't know if I need to say the producer's name doesn't matter. But the there was one, because I was I was always a fucking by the end of the day at especially at TV. I was just a mess like stressed out running around. There's one time shame is said to me, he goes, you know what you look like he's like you look like when Cain unmasked the first yes, yes, yes, yes, so funny, but there was one time one of the producers he goes, what's going on with you. I do you look so disheveled. Why is your face? All read. You went gimmick. Yeah. It's called this place, right? Are you on gimmick? It'll get you. You know what I am? Huh. This is you've ever wrestler. I'm gonna go with even though everything that's gone on. I'm going harsh Moto. Just because I, I was during the whole period of all these great matches and it's so hard to choose. I'm just going to choose the guy spent a bunch of time on. And if you're not that familiar with them, you should you should check out some of that shit because he's just a bad ass. He's just he's just one of those, like, yeah. Sort of Dokki almo-, almost like a almost like an she kind of vibe. Oh big time. Right. But maybe I don't know just, just real fucking bad s Shinya Hashimoto man, who's your favorite wrestler, though? Now I'm looking at my notes. A bunch of things we didn't even talk about. I wanted to get to. My favorite wrestler, is well Osprey. Okay. Dudes doing great things. I will tell you, these things really quickly. These these are my notes. Did you have you are you watching? They put up new episodes of Letterman on net flicks. I watched a little bit of the Konya one. I watched part of the Ellen Degeneres won last night, watching it, and I came in. He go- he talks about because she starts describing a bit that she would do. And she's like, you know, very Andy Kaufman. And then he starts talking about Lawler, and call, I've never heard Letterman talk about it. He talks about Letterman and Kaufman, being on the show. He according to Letterman, and this is the first time I've ever heard this. He said, Andy told him what was going to happen before the show? Interesting. Well didn't. I thought they all got in Letterman's office beforehand. I dunno. I thought I had heard that. I, I don't know if they talked about everything in there. I think I've never heard Letterman say he knew okay? At least I've never heard. Okay. So I don't know interesting, very interested airy stream Lii very, interesting indubitably the other thing, I wrote down was LARs Sullivan as the new, Eric Rohan. Where it's like he's this speaks to, again, the whole thing of like McMahon repeating himself, and he does all we've never done that or nobody remembers that. Because you go back to an Alvarez is obsessed with it. He he won't even call him. Eric Rowe and always calls them the Vitner. Yeah. Because of that one interview whether like, you know, you you're a Rhodes scholar, you make your own wine. You're a gourmet chef you, you solve rubik's cubes with blindfolds on you said it as that it done. So now it's supposed to be. I'm doing. Sad it. Nope. So now LARs Sullivan is supposed to be all he's very, very smart. But he doesn't like, when people call him a freak. Cool. Give a shit. For real. But it is it's, it's this it's mcman man of like this. How are we gonna get heat on this heal? Oh, I know have them walk out. And then say I'm not going to wrestled this match and then just leave God always works haven't done that forever. It's like Vince, we did that last. I won't remember. We're gotta be playing vignettes building up that somebody's going to be coming. He's going to debut next week. Nobody remembers we set that he's going to tape. You. He's smart. He's smart but he's big. We're going to have that is thing. He's actually very, very smart. They only one thing here guys, the only other thing I wrote down in this does relate back to my favorite wrestler will Asprey because it was during his match for the junior title. Apparently in in new Japan. You can win the title on account out, okay? Because there were several times at that was relaid to me the viewer by the play by play announcers. I wasn't I wasn't aware of that. I was not aware of that either, but it all the touch off darn perr attention. That's twenty it's twenty. But it makes so much more sense. Because, you know, I you know, WWE I guess, in the states, you know, the championship can only change hands on a pin fall or submission. You can't you can't win it on a D cue which is. I could go back and forth on that logic, right? Well, yeah. I mean, I think it's because the American style has always been so much more based on he'll tactics. Yeah. And fucker e. Right. So fuck ary so that you wouldn't. It was it behooved where you were trying to get at least have that on there, right? As another thing to be able to arrive, what? Because they're also because there is the element of like you can have like the champ can get himself disqualified, and you're like that's bullshit. Right. You know. But I could also see it's like, well, if the champ is going to use brass knuckles, and waffle the guy, it's like, well, then you get stripped of your championship, that's you'd have to thank, you know, like, oh, you lose the match what you retain the title is a little, but with the count out that makes complete sense to me that you can win the title on account because it's. It's the same as being knocked out. I could win it. If I knock you out and you're in the ring. Yeah, you're down for the ten you're down for twenty and you you cannot compete anymore. I mean barring me, you know, handcuffing you right to the fucking if you're caught, you know, sport and it being controlled, right? Beyond than you would think like. Well, it has to at least be on the up and up enough that it, you know, because even like to my previous point about Vince loving the, the he'll walks out and it's like, no, I'm not going to wrestle this match. Like he's Larry. David, like, nah, it's then you lose the title because if you are refusing to compete, you have four fitted the title. You forfeit the match title, Maja forfeited the title. There you go. But winning on account out is completely much more sound logic than all you can't win it out there. It's like, yeah you can. Yeah. He's done. He's not the only. Thing was the with what? Well, Osprey was the teen of how many times somebody was on the outside and just barely made it back into the ring at nineteen. Yeah, I, which I love they do it. On multiple matches in a night. Yeah. I think the day is coming and it's got to be for the title because there is now I'm like, oh, you can win the title on account out. I feel like they are building to a spot at some point where some a champion is not going to make it into like and not like he tries to go in and doesn't quite make it. I think it's going to be because they play the same every time the guy pops up at eighteen and has just about to slide in after the guy says nineteen I think the champ is going to pop it at eighteen and then fucking collapse, back down on the ground because then you still have that second or two of like, oh, my because the pop that the, the crowd will go insane. When the guide, pops up, and then fucking collapses back down, like a bunch of broccoli. Yeah. They're set it up. I think so. Yeah. I think so because it was this thing where I'm watching it. I was like I was like you can't keep doing that. Like somewhere somebody's gotta get count around. Then I thought, oh, that's what this has to be leading up to especially with new Japan. It's like, especially with Gaito at the at the helm your like there's a reason, there's a reason, a logic, well, Osprey Hoshimoto. That's right. He's not someone I'm familiar with but I want to be get in there. Okay. And I'll help you discs. Thank you. The kids find you online by getting tickets to the show in Chicago on August thirtieth, it's a Friday. It's a midnight show. Those tickets link will be in the description at Vince, April on Twitter, Vince study, rowlonin, Instagram. Yup. Zero pound McCarthy encouraging and follow me on all forms of social media at McCarthy had. Twitter Instagram, whatever you got the. Show tonight. I am on at the comedy bunker in Sherman. Oaks, california. Come check it out. That's eight pm to main scream. For more information on that have a happy and safe and blessed flag day on Friday. Everyone. Thank you. And. Did I put this on the phone? I think the, the show that I was about to promote his on the wrong day. The Saturday six pm channel twelve ninety three the Shona Santo movie. Tell you, man. I was bombed out last week. I had it in my calendar of blue Damon movie, and then one thing led to another. And we were fucking you missed. We went to go eat. We were we're out near Santa Monica. We are in like Westwood you screamed and we went into get a pizza and we're like half this half that was sitting there. And the guy finally comes over after like forty minutes. He's like he started making the wrong pie. So do you want. Do you want the, the pie that he made that was wrong? And then he's like I'll give you fifteen percent of the bell at first I thought he's had fifty percent. And we were like great. Yeah. When I got the check it was fifteen percent go game, but he actually gave us the original pie that we ordered for free. You know what you guys. All right. That's checks out. But I missed the blue team movie over Nakal tasty pie. They were really was. Let's go. We were so irritated. And it was getting late and we had Jack. And we're like this is going to be bad, and then once we started eating the food. We're like we were like disappointed that the food was really good. Any page around shout outs, pal. Call huston. Yeah. If you some people call Saul I call Houston. Clint mcdaniel. Clint McDaniel, he's a lot like wa who McDaniel buddies. Clint k c Jones. Yes. Driving that train high on propane. Peter Samuelson, Peter Samuelson. He's the son of Peterson annual boss Tino, Vargas. I like that guy too fast. You know it's a. Brian fuss, Gino wasn't that a actor. Maybe I think that was bud. Bundy Greg Sorenson. Yeah. Greg sorenson. Your fire. Giver, donate to the kids, we sincerely. Thank you, and love you and will be here next week goodbye. That was a hit.

Japan wrestling Jericho Moxley Mike Saudi Arabia WWF undertaker Goldberg Twitter Asprey undertaker Eddie Guerrero Martin Marty Steve Austin Ryan Naito Instagram Naito Ray Waddell Vince
Paul Roma - SAS CLASSIC

The Steve Austin Show - Unleashed!

1:03:50 hr | 1 year ago

Paul Roma - SAS CLASSIC

"Thank you for listening to this podcast one production available on Apple podcasts and podcast one this episode Steve. I'll show brought to so you're free today by our friends at Bet online dot. AG The following is a perfect time to get in on all the sports betting action not only are the NFL football role alone but the world series is just just about here and the NBA Nhl just around the corner get into mix a better line dot ag and use the Promo Code podcast one for fifty percent welcome bonus bet online oh nine dot ag sportsbook experts and exclusive partner a podcast one sports net podcast one dot com production. He started in in a small town in Texas worked as a pass off to become one of the most famous wrestlers of all time. We're going to take care of business tonight. And that's the bottom line now. He's dominating the world of on-demand audio and he's doing it for the work in man. This is a bad good view bullshit up my brain. This is Steve Austin on the League another classic episode with Steve Austin Show every week. We're bringing out some of the most requested episodes of the podcast from behind the archives where another great one for you this week and here's my producer shown to tell you all about it. Everybody Eddie Producer Sean with another classic episode of the Steve Austin Show today we bring you episode number. Four zero two with Paul Aroma original air date February ninth ninth two thousand seventeen this is the first part of a two part episode that I was not aware existed and I came across it in the archives and it's it's a heck of an episode you guys are GonNa be really interested to hear this because Paul does not hold back and he's got a lot to say about her wrestling and just as time and Dodi and WCW easy w so you guys are GonNa dig this Paul Talks about his introduction to the pro wrestling business training under Tony Ulta more former partner of Captain Alabama Oh and also being under the tutelage of the devious wound Mr Fuji which leads us from discussions of the famous famous ribs on the road and just in general in life that Mr Fuji pull on people also some stories about Harley Race and how he earned harleys respect act as well as Paul Orndorff the Great Paul Orndorff a former tag team champion with Paul Roma as a part of pretty wonderful in WCW and most importantly importantly at least for this episode. I think you get to hear about the formation and the implosion of the young stallions with his former partner. Jim Empowers Paul definitely has a lot to say about that. I gotTa say this Paul Roba he had one of the best moments there is a DVD that was put out by a a to be back in two thousand and five two thousand six about the four horsemen and they're just in DVD that has a lot of the documentary about the horsemen I men as well as you know matches and stuff and they get to the point where they're talking about. Paul Ryan was time in W W as a part of the four horsemen revival in nineteen ninety-three and serve kind of talking trash about him and then they bring in Paul and I wasn't ready for Paul the beyond the DVD but there was and he wasn't happy so get a chance to check that DVD out. I think it's I forgot what it's called. I should probably look that up but it's the Forstmann. DVD The very first one that they put out. It's a good one and Paul definitely has a big part in that one so Paul Roma coming up in just a second this day Steve Austin History Today being September twenty sixth we start off in doses W in nineteen ninety-one we're doses of TV champion stunning Steve Austin fought the natural dustin rose to a draw. We had up to Nineteen ninety-three in Columbia South Carolina. It's Davey Boy Smith defeating stunning Steve Austin via disqualification after Austin hit Smith with a chair and then we go to nine hundred ninety four and Knoxville Tennessee edit ETA. WCW Pro taping those TV champion Johnny Bad defeated Steve Austin Vehicle Q. So far no clean finishes for Steve on this day. Let's see if it's luck changes. We go to one thousand nine hundred ninety six in Saginaw Michigan for the WF Steve Austin defeated Jake the snake Roberts there he goes and then in nineteen nineteen thousand nine in Charlotte North Carolina. It's unforgiven nineteen ninety nine where triple h defeated the rock mankind the big show David Smith and McCain in the six pack challenge for triple H to win the WWF title which previously was vacated by Vince McMahon. Dan and Steve Austin was the guest ring Forrester who also did some commentary in the match at one point he attacked the referees and took over as the in ring official and after the match Austin handed the belt to triple h and then hit him with a stunner because he stone cold Steve Austin I give information from the history of WB E. Dot Com all right folks. It's coming right up. We've got Paul Roma on a classic episode of the Steve Austin. Show you guys know me. I Love Watch Watch College Football Season Rolling along and competition is intense on top of all that right now is a great time to get in on all the sports betting action. That's out there. Here's here's what we got this weekend in college football it's the University of Virginia Taken Notre Dame. USC squaring off against the huskies Washington Texas versus Arkansas and a big matchup pitting Mississippi state up against Auburn visit our good friends and exclusive partner at podcast One met online dot ag to take advantage of the best bonuses the business sign up today for a Free Account Bet online dot ag and use the Promo Code podcast one again at dot ag your online sportsbook experts and exclusive the partners of podcast one sports net. Hey Cowboy fans need to brush up on your football knowledge then enroll in the dose Akis College Football Football College where you'll learn from brilliant football minds like Jay Cutler Martellus Bennett Katie Nolan and John Bacon the man who wrote the book on College Football not only will you win every football argument this season you could even enter for a chance to win tickets to the Twenty Twenty College Football Playoff National Championship to be the first your family to earn a football watching certificate kit from a beer school enrolling dose Akis College Football Football College at does Akis Dot com slash. Edu does keep it interest Asante Joseph. He's beer brands enjoyed those responsibly imported by surveys Biscottis White Plains New York Copyright Twenty nineteen two seconds beer brands no purchase necessary take fifty. US SLASH DC twenty one plus only enter by twelve twenty nineteen four rules available on dose dot com slash edu his he's on the foul Romo at a long time or are you doing first of all welcome to the show well. I'm really glad to be on your show Steve. I feel like I feel like a fan now the business so long how how long you been out of business. Why did you retire ninety eight? I guess about that yeah. God Dang man we just rest a few times here and there that ended up she w and she didn't almost pass by. I'm going to read a quick email. I gotTA show you milk for the Steve Allen show and I got an email one time in in and said Hey Steve All Roma's my trainer and has told me nothing but good stories about Youtube from back in the day. Would you ever consider having him on as a guest and he's at Best Joe Zimbabwe and I said of course our got along the respected mutual so anyway that's how we hooked up this conversation Asian and I told Paul Shit I got this email and I call what do we talk was in November and December. I think it was December. I was sitting in a deer I and and I was talking to a real quiet voice. I guess trying to keep the deer always thinking he's talking. Austin guys has out of his mind. I was in a dearest sweat my ass off trying to talk to policy catching up just trade stories because it's kind of like I. I am a lot of guys. We'd never had each other's phone number. You let the business I want my way. We don't have each other's email address but it's kind of one of those things where like I said. Respect is mutual so once we hook up. It's just like it never just like it was always the way it was just starting to prince but you're talking to me on the phone. Commanders got must think I'm real weird the way I'm talking we've told us it you gotta be on my podcast said we'll just sit there and shoot the breeze and talk about the old days but give me time to get back to the second Duma research well. I got back to Los Angeles and now the remodelling my house and some written his house next door did did you get that pitcher. I texted you Paul. I don't think I did oh. I told you I was wait now. Although we just now yeah yeah yeah yeah it was a picture computer on this little bitty like a twenty dollar autumn and you get off the Internet because he knows the chickens set up. I'm talking about that's fucking share and I gotTa Bend Down Because my microphone is so far away from my mouth I went into onto the damn garage and we got to put stepladder needed something arrest a microphone on so I got my microphone to foot letter. I got my computer in a little box. I'm kipness shared. It's kind of like a low rider share. All they need to do is hit that low rider music. It'll be my theme song. Is your life a cluster fuck like mind about fifty years old as all the years in the business made you smarter. I don't know sometimes I think I'm smarter you now and then there's those other days mad that I know let's just live and tell myself God damn I wanna I wanna Kinda skew this conversation more towards something something that can speak to the students of the wrestling class are the wrestling program that you help coach and to be able to just talk about navigating the business learning things along the way because I know you've done a whole lot of interviews listen to some of those and I'm going to watch a bunch of your matches and you had a speed strength. I mean you've got a great physique very athletic. The way you jump on those turn buckles just moved like a cat and and yet great look you came in back into any a time when you know she. Would you start eighty five eighty six. Maybe around there hell. I can't remember but I mean I it was kind of the wild wild west back then back in grown-up I was in Texas so I was really cut my teeth on. NWEA midsouth power pro stuff stuff like that and then I started getting more New York right when you guys along with Jim Powers Book on the young stallions and then follows you from power and glory and on and then ended up W. W. Cross Pass Haley took the world tag title Man Rigaud you and aren't dead at a television taping. I think it was at center stage wasn't it. I don't know if it was there or it was in Florida. Dan Wasn't Florida and might have been made in Florida. I don't know but anyway let's let's go back to your high school days because when look at the way you worked in a ring a you aggressive as a heel you had that mean streak as a baby face you had fire on your comebacks. You're really really solid in ring. This go was a hell of an athlete and I had to go back and watch your stuff. Do what you athletic background or you. Football player track guy I ran hurdles for or a little bit you on a damn track running hurdles football do you but you weren't as big back there and Anna well when I when I tried out for the pros I was actually about one hundred eighty five pounds. I was a wide receiver split in rent a four five forty now bad bad speed you know for a white boy pretty good vertical leap yeah yeah I could at the time I could touch the top of the square backboard. That's pretty good set of goals. Hey when you said you you tried out. Where was this at? I tried out for Ross. Chicago made the third round. you know basically told me at one coach really love me. This other guy just didn't want me no way shape or form so I moved Don got into Wrestling College at university I went to university. You Haven is kind of a I'll make a long story short. I knew a trainer for the New York giants. He knew about my background on new hot. He watched me play semi pro ball and he said listen. You've got to go to college. Just play a little Organiz Organiz ball and I try out tomorrow you know. Just I know you that good. I seen you stick people so I was like okay great so I work full-time went to school full time in and you know cashed in my insurance policies to pay for school and I couldn't do it all so how didn't happen so long lasting college now how maybe a year I couldn't do it. All it was too much you know when you are working full damn what about the books where you're a good student. Now not that great wasn't into the books does it the sticking people you know and that's what they put in. My ride right up actually gave me a hell of a ride up and said listen. I go tell me that three hundred Paul I'm andy he go back and take them out and that's what I did so so you know it just wasn't meant to be next thing in all as I was wrestling okay but you come up in a Connecticut area right yeah okay so that's where you're still latte so back in when you're trying to cut your teeth you got in a new haven limited college didn't like the books it was too much. You're trying to work a full time job. You're so were you a fan of the business or did you just look at the businesses hey man. This is my next way that I can make a living now I I my father had asked me say hey listen to what he called me in the rooms and why don't you do this and he had wrestling on because you're big enough and I said you know all that crap. I ain't GonNa do that. Shit you know because I think about it and that's bullshit and I walked away and I was a a martial you know in the system in the Connecticut System and on a former pro fighter came up to me and said hey listen you know I know somebody in the wrestling business. I think you should be a wrestler and he kind of intrigue me a little bit so I went to a local shell for WWF and yeah then I ended up joining a wrestling school and then after wrestling school since they teach you all that much I really got my notoriety when Mr Fuji. He took me under his wing and started training me and that's that's really when I got my break okay but you're you're training people right now. You also have a regular job. We're going to get to that but according to the right here says Tonio Tamar trained you beginning but then right if Fuji was a big influence or mentor toward. Could you show what did Tony Altamira teach you just to stand there and look good couple bumps. There was nothing really I mean taking bombs I use my athletic ability to enhance anything and everything I did was it was like when somebody straddled running across ropes in straddle somebody go for backdrop you straddle. I started running over them like it was a hurdle throw one lake. I'll go on over to side like you know run over to earl and you know then I started are doing flips off. Backdrops landed on my feet and running up the ropes you know walking up the ropes things like that. That's I just enhanced everything and then and I just kept working on my drop kicking ability because I knew I could get the height. I just had to make look pretty sounds like Tony. Tomorrow was a real old school guy real old school when he was just he was creating guys for me for the WWF for you know the right big names to just chop up. So how did you come upon Mr Food. You taken you under his wings. And how did you get into the. WWF Fuji saw me. I I used to go to new haven there in town and there will tell you bring your gear so I bring my Gearan. Fujii said listen. You know what I need. Some help moving and I said sure man. I'll help you just tell me when so he you told me and I said how about you know you gotta move your entire House right. You'RE GONNA pack it in the trucks Hubbard fight get some people these fine well all in all I showed showed up and we move them out of his house. He never expected me to show up. I guess one of the ribs with the boys. was you know tell them yes. You're going to show up and then you away from hanging right yoursel. I showed up and he thanked me and he said hey listen next summer. In New Haven get there early and I'll work with you so so I got there early and we work for an hour and a half two hours and we kept that steady going and then he just just continued on and he started you know show me different things teaching me you know tell me about ring psychology and this is why you don't do that while you do this and you know so on and so forth take any you know useless bumps and things like that yeah and then I follow down basically when he moved to Tennessee I was down in Tennessee working in in the one one of the rings down there and anytime I was on the road or he was there we travelled together. Even if I wasn't booked we travel up to New Hampshire Jermaine wherever we wrestling or he was wrestling and he gave me a deal hey listen I wanNA wrestle tonight. Put Paul in my place so I go in and work and then he critique my matching all the way home you know three four hours just talking wrestling and Um we just hit it off. You know I mean I was just I was as standup guy in all men in my work art so will you work in some independent shots because you like you said you know always bring a gear with you yeah that way. If you guys you gear and they see they call you hey man we need you as you got your gear so were you working shots around the area or with the federation yeah well they were almost like branch off of. WWE OUR WWF at the time Tony would get the deals you know get two gigs rutten no pittsfield mass in in some you know even Brantford and all these little places Oh you know watertown and Waterbury and all this and then we go out there for you know twenty five dollars or whatever it was you know wrestle in front of the people and try to to get get your feet wet but again still not known what the Hell you're doing. You know back at that time so when you say that that Fuji was a mentor I mean dude. I just wanted to give you a porn or porno very you guys had relationship and travel together and this related work with you. Oh Yeah Yeah we were. We were I mean you know he we call them oncle when he told me I could calm oncle and he says you know meant something and yeah he would just server every even if we watch the match together you know he would ask me what he thinks of this. What do you think of that? And what did he do wrong here. What could he have done you know so I I just picked his brain just constantly and I said you know we were in like I don't know Illinois or something and and I said you know I just I can't gets a psychology thing. He goes. Listen to me. You don't his and his language he says it's just GonNa come chill and then you're going to be like wow stat easy so I went out in ratch- and I was sitting in a reverse chokehold and I sat up and I said Holy Shit. That's it it and the guy says to me what I said. That's it. He goes. That's what and that's it. That's all there is to it. That's IT and he goes. What the hell are you talking about? Where I'm this conversation in the ring and I said let's go home and we walked in the locker? Room and Fuji was sitting there and he looked at me when I came in and he goes you got audit and I said I got it because I knew it is. I I saw the look on your face. I said foods all this time. That's it. That's all it is you you know and I try to explain that to my students. It's up. It's amazing. You know when you once you get it. It turns your life around on you know how you look at things things in life in general so then what was it as it pertains to the squared circle that made the light go off and you say okay I got it. This is what it is. I just understood ring psychology ecology understood how to get the people off their feet how to control the crowd how to get them to boo. You know I mean I was in the Pontiac Silverdome and you know you get fifty thousand people ninety thousand people to share your Vo- you know what I mean and you have in the palm of your hand. You know it's just I. I can't really put a finger on it but you understand why you do what you do. You don't do like Lucia Lebron where they just do moves that mean absolutely nothing just spots you know every move. Every bump means something when I first got into the business you know what I was going to Chris Adams school and he didn't smartness up man. I mean 'cause I thought something was up and I got the business and I bought ended. I thought was real when I was a kid at seven or eight years old. You're I am right on North Texas state. I'm in wrestling school once every Saturday at the TV tape in world class championship wrestling and this dude ain't smarter than themselves so I'm thinking how these guys do this sheeting rain anyway anyway a few months later I'd have my first match and from a blank on live TV or whatever it was you know I found out that it was a work and you know how L. at work but still I didn't really know how to go about having a match and send all these years later and it took me you know give or take. I don't know if it was a year. I mean mean understood. I can have a match with someone that could lead me to the patients but it didn't really understand and I'll never forget and I had somewhere my garage. It's a piece of paper Abor a legal paper on yellow yellow legal paper and he wrote the former for Mashal made it but one two three four five hundred numbers were basically was maybe they shine time. He'll heat Mana comeback finish and either maybe goes over the hill goes over but you know there was right there in front of me. All the little the pieces of imagine it still didn't register what made but I did the same thing it was like maybe a year and a business or whatever and then I think at you understand what imagine awash then you can take it to the different levels of complexity that you're able to take too but I was watching basketball awhile back and I was watching the super bowl this past weekend again and sometimes you know like to your students that are in your class well. Sometimes you can think of a match like this. You know when it's at baby fae shad or if the heel starts over on top sometimes it's a thing where you know if you're watching a basketball game anders at momentum swing and all of a sudden the team will get on like Twelve Fifteen fifteen sixteen twenty point run anything and what the Fox going on here the other guy's getting they're going to start making shots while all of a sudden the momentum terms and so they start making everything and the other team starts going to blow in their lead and so if you just think of it as an athletic contest you know you're you're simulating. It's not a real fight but you're you're. You're you are. You're arresting Mash so you're similar at your simulating combat so he's got to put it in the context of that but people get it caught up. Sometimes I think too much trying to think of what the highest spot should be but just think of the logic of what you said connecting to the people and make them come would you and being able to control manipulate them by what you doing the ring and not begging them but working them to get more you want them yeah yeah and and I learned that in Toronto I was I was working with Arn and tally and he got me in a hole in Toronto is tough. They wanted you to move all the time and they started booing. I said to tell ya come on. Let's go you know the balloon and he goes there. Relax kid and I said another the blue man we gotta do a spot. They're doing just relaxed. They'll come you know and and I relaxed and he goes okay now we go and and they erupted so I mean I had a good people around me a good people teaching me you know since I was connected with Fuji I had Harley Race. You know another another person that helped me less thought in you know I had some really good people around me. That you know really had a lot of input. which is what I liked yeah so I I gotta ask you a question about barley? I gotta ask you a question about Harley but before I get to Harley Mr Fuji was is the King of ribs from what I understand. You're riding what the gas so. I'm sure he's not rigging you. You're kind of his protege. He's taking you under swaying. He's the wily veteran and here you are this. This kid this young man in a menace he's taking you under his wing then either gus ribs with you yes and and and here's the thing we're we're on a flight. We're going to Australia and he says to me one of the one of the funniest ribs I think it it was funny. They would paint the boys fingernails when they went to sleep. We're flying overseas. You know with Nail Polish yeah so he calls me up the first class any he says to me here. He has the Nail Polish he goes. Go paint Dom Morocco's nails and I went Fuji Cleese. I'll do anything but not don lease not done and he goes voice on you want to graduate and I said yes foods yes uncle I wanNA crash eagles than you do uncle say because that's how he spoke and I was like okay so it went over in Morocco asleep in and I was troubled man I was travelling in this guy's nails were in the back of the plane and Aramco's standing there next in the you know he's a big beast of a man absolutely yeah and I'm like Hey don what's going on. He goes some prick painting painting my nails and I wet yes. Some bitch got me to you know what he was trying to get the heat off me yet man but yeah no he biggest river of Fuji was the biggest river actually Vince went to Fuji One day and said that please I need to just calm down slowdown on the ribs twenty two he actually did he actually slowed down a little bit. I mean they're out of control. I mean what they did to the rooster Terry Taylor want to do well he came in you know there was this thing man vow aw. WWF and nobody from you know either NWEA or down South should come into our company vice versa so Terry Taylor Taylor comes in and he had his alber in the game in the soup of when he went into the ring they busted open his Alber and they cut the Beta the long pants shorts on a suit. I mean they just came in put you know put stuff on and he put his stuff away and just walked out like that. I mean 'cause you. If you put the guys over there gonNA just continue on. I was brutal man then outback Jack Jack they got him. I mean they they got food. You got him. He made the worst mistake you could ever make. He walked down Fuji at the Bar and it said Hey mate eight. He goes aback drink yet and food you look down and you don't say that to you know veteran like him so they got them all messed up they. He took the crocodile off his back. They jumped on his Burton and crushed that thing and then I pissed off all his clothes actually went in the room because I thought he was dead. I really did you just sitting in the chair hunched over. I want to make sure he was breathing. That I left then walked out. We're we're you ever big remedy yourself up because I was. I think you'd probably like me a little bit of a loner and the Gazzetta hung around with but I wasn't into being rigged I can I can appreciate a good rivers I want or that was light hearted but the serious ribs you know I wasn't really a big Fan China but everybody review because you pretty much had a reputation for being a guy that you're a man of your word but you're gathered unlike that'd be fucked weather yeah yeah now like you know again. I was protected the that's the thing like Fuji was the godfather of wrestling and Dan you know the first time he introduced me to Andre I walked in and he goes he goes Andre this is law. He's with me. Hey this is this is my boy and Andreas at all okay goes. Hey you play cards and I said no he goes okay sit for money did you and then audrey it off and then Ted our CD walks in to the locker room and he goes get Outta here and our CD looks at at Andrea like what he goes. I said get OUTTA ear. He goes like I have to change. Go find another place to change. Get audie are now so he left so I mean if you know you didn't have a little juice and I think that's what helped too because you know nobody wanted to mess with Fuji. I wanted to Cleveland and I walk in the Locker Room. Ride them all happy happy little work and all of a sudden one of the guys gravitate. Hey food you watch you better get upstairs right now. He's s so like these pests I gamma and he's upset finish better goal so I go running upstairs and I'm like what the hell did. I do right so I walk up to him and he goes food. What's up he goes? What did you do and I said? What do you mean what did I do? I just got here he goes. What did you do what you say about Harvey and I said anything about Harley? Love heart goes well. You better go talk to arly sounds like holy shit man so I go back downstairs and there's hardly you know I mean that that was one of two right. There are a Harley you know he had he had grips on him. I mean Damn and he could turn to the lug nuts off often a a car tire. I mean he was unbelievable so he's sitting there and I said early got amid eight looks up at me like kind of Nina pissed so we host compare commere so we walk into the room and I said food. You just told me that you're pissed at me. I don't know what I did. You know I said listen. I said I would never say about you. You know said nothing offer you. He goes well. Somebody said that you said something about me and I said I'll tell you what are we you bring that son of a bitch in here and I'll punch them right in his falcons face and he goes. You know what he gave me a big hug he goes. That's all you needed that year. He goes. I'll take care of it and that was it walked out of there yeah so got to know the boys trying to trying to bury me but again again you know because I had a relationship with Fuji and and Harley you know and I told him I said too. I said you know you do nothing but help me. We get in the ring. You teach me things I said I have nothing but the love for you man I would never say thing against you. Purchase applies for business could be a real hassle. Did you guys know I have my shopping. Ranch can be a chore trying to get everything I need together without multiple trips all over the place. Just keep track of where you need to go. We'll turn you all around and upside down. That's why there's our friends at Zoro dot com where the number one goal is to make your life easier Zoro dot com spelled Z. O. R. 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Check out this lineup w superstars and legends Hogan Roman Range Staying Goldberg Becky Lynch Undertaker Kofi Kingston Rick Flair and Yours Truly Stone Cold Steve Austin Oh hill yeah now. It's the greatest night of superstars w has ever seen as a new era of smackdown beginning on Fox don't miss the premiere of Friday night smackdown October four th at seven thirty PM Serb only on Fox and that's the bottom line football season is here and it's time to dominate the competition with your fantasy picks and RJ bells dream preview on comcast sports net. Is your secret weapon to victory. I said the fact they didn't run enough and we want tells me this guy so confident. He wants to hide his strength. No matter the matchup. Rj's got you handled with topnotch analysis for the best. NFL picks around now is that true not are no very optimistic download. Rj Bells Green preview every week on apple podcasts and PODCAST ONE DOT COM Gabor's out there. It's time to raise some hell to make mayhem shoot Lucci wait through mayhem fueled adventure venture in borderlands three for the PC xbox wanted ps four for lines three features all new characters including four new playable vault owners over a billion guns and weapons and a crazy amount of customization play solo or with your friends to take out insane enemies score loads of loot and save the galaxy from fanatical threat mayhem is is available now borderlands three on xbox and ps four for more it votes got borderlands dot com ready for this is Steve Austin on yeah understand he'll asylum w the noise in the hall of fame highly respected expected but we gave him such clout in that locker room what the fuck was it because users a little guy well my I could tell you a story that I heard people swear it's true. Fujii told me the story. I have to believe it's drew my understanding was he was a hitman on his island new basically a real bad as dude. I know that he had neighbors complain about his dog barking every night every night and you jio call the cops and so on so food you invite them over for raw little picnic and he took their dog and he fed him their own dog. It could throw that until God damn. I think I might have heard that story from some bars that issue the that's a shoot man. That is a shoe you bought the boys loved him but he was a merciless river. I mean I think it was on. I think it was done in jest. I think it was just I'm guessing which is just a toll pranks. There's no malice behind it but you know some pretty wicked Harley race you just told me the conversation in the bathroom with him. We used to go over to Harley's house also we worked with. WCW and we'd all go there and him and his wife at the time he would barbecue and his wife would make all desserts Hollywood's an excellent cook and it was ten or twelve oaks over there and we'd be laying around this before the matches and like no one wanted to leave who had already been on the road. We're going to harleys for lunch. No one wants to leave because they don't want to be rude and so just laying around and so finally Hollywood governor in you know hardly talk. 'cause you know him well all right because Harley never raised his foist living room. Okay everybody get out and time to go we'd go back our hotel room catchy shower and then we'd go oh the billowy work Kansas City and then we go back to haunt his at night and just drink beer all night and shoot pool but Hollywood wanted to tell us guys in the history of the business and Rick were always told me that and sometimes when he would go to Japan to defend the NBA title but it'll be at heat or they needed protection or whatever they they were sent Harley to watch flares back so I'd heard it was a tough man what what made him so tough because Harley was a guy that took me under under his wing as well I was supposed to be the United States heavyweight champion down earned. WCW But they put me and Brian Together and we've been come the Hollywood blonds. I always heard destroy. Let me put the nail in the coffin. I heard so many stories but did you ever see any instances of Harley having to you know be be a tough guy or handle anybody. Where did the reputation come from? I don't know I never I never saw him. Put His hands on anybody eared him. I'm everyone liked him. Everybody I I yeah yeah. You know I mean I said you know. Leave my students. I said to listen either your feared or respected respected but either one is okay because chances are no one's going to talk with you. If you have either one of those you know that's an interesting point. Ah With Harley you know I respected him. Shanmugam and you know it wasn't a question of you know hey here. I am this young due to forty five. I can kick box like a box man. I could take punches wasn't about that it. Was You know the way I was brought up. I respected him. you know I mean he put those clamps on my traps a few times and you know brought the sweat out of me and made me tremble. you know he's such a great league guy. He just he just is I just think he something happened and it carried on the reputation carried on you. Don't like Fuji The Reputation Reputation Kyrie not what what was the diligence grip strengthen when you say had to clamps he would he would catch me from behind sitting down and he would stick his his fingers in my traps right yeah and I would just let this sound out like this like that because I couldn't talk you know and he hardly mad come on you know he goes. He told me day goes. I get such a kick out of that. That's like this every time he saw me in your bathtub he come sneaking up on me and he and he just laughed and you just saw this big mountain of a man chocolate with his shoulders just going up and down. He's got the biggest kick out of it mad. They would stop when you when you first came into the WWF and work your way up the card but when you first came in there what was what was the case as far as negotiating for money because this before the you'll maybe this before you jim powers you become attack dame and then write your name was was born but just as far as pay right. I'll jump straight. How did they negotiate that? You say you come in here. Because I saw a man she was working with take clunk competitive match but you were there favors so what would it take. Are you back then and in the wild west days just as far as pay structure well when we were they structured as what you did TV tapings they gave you fifty dollars because they felt that you were giving you exposure that you know paid you way more than you could ever get and that's an interesting standpoint for validating correct but and in theory it is correct. They're giving you Taliban. Did they argue about television exposure to go do other things thanks but you're there to work and you've got amount to feed oh couple mouse right exactly you know then it was just when I got my my chance dance actually happened our TV in New York and I walked over to Fuji App after after doing a job and I said I'm done and he goes okay. You know you go home and I said no food. I'm done and he goes. I don't understand I said I'm done. I said had enough of this. I I said I looked better than these guys. I like a work. I said I got a great. My body's Barron all others that cocky dude. I didn't give a shit right you know and he goes all way weight and I said had enough. I said I'm making these guys look great. You know they look like action and I make them with great. 'cause they're beating me. I said so you know what I had enough. Just it's not going to happen. You know they don't WanNa do anything with me. I'm good with it you know and and he goes wait wait wait. He says you know let me be top to Caesar meaning fence and Egos you know just just go home. Just just don't think like that. Ah You know let me talk to him. So then he talked to Caesar and they gave me some bookings you know and you pick up to three hundred dollars a night. You you know one one week. I did three shows so I got like nine hundred bucks in. You know you figure back in eighty five's money. That's damn good money exactly Ackley and I said should I could get used to this you know and then I just started you know getting more and more at that point you know if you're going to be really we don't get it doesn't hurt as much because you at least lining your pockets a little bit. So did you ever ask sign a contract. That said you work X. number of dates. How did it work back then because they put powers together the young stallions they they come up with the name was on TV? That's doing commentary. Whatever y'all young stallions they? They work. They they push. You guys love Benton not so much whatever the Ron was. You've talked about a million times. My question is did you do that ever back. In those days sign the boys to contract say okay. You're here for year or the community money yeah. There's no guaranteed money they signed me had me sign a contract. You know the just basically said they could obviously they own my likeness stuff. I I had a big push. They sent let me to Australia as the Jones and I were or if you believe this as the Joe denial were probably more popular. You're then Hogan was here. We were just he says. He said they don't really understand what's going on and I said what are you talking about and he goes. I don't think you understand how how big we are over. We are and yeah. He took me out in the I found out right quick over we were we were just we are on everything we are on Commercial Toyota commercials and high looks commercials and I was on the dating game and and I mean everywhere we you know hosted went to nightclubs and they paid us to spin records you know and I mean we had cartilage in Australia and he was right and then you come back reality which is Erin and you know you're you're back to the grind but we Jimmy and I got our break as young stallions because zinc martel had broken up so they know they needed another good looking tagging right so they said listen to. We're GONNA announce Zinke. Get Martel aren't going to be here and we're GONNA announce it. You're going to be running out going after the titles and soon as we announced that we're going to hit your music. You hit the ring because we'd ought the PEOP- Office dos so that's what we did well. Jimmy thought that the young stallions he came up to me goes they WANNA call the young stallions and I said okay does law. I'm not Italian. I so they're not we're not the Italian stallion values heels well. It's a rip up and I said okay he goes well. This is bullshit. It's Oreb and I said listen. If we get booked and week book study I don't give you should it's a rib family to take care of so we went out as young stallions. They gave us a nice little Bush. I went from. I was making more money before I hooked up with Jimmy. Gill doing singles and then once we started getting the pay per views that obviously I was making more money the main right because you get more for those there was no dollar amount set it all fluctuated so it all depends on the house and they put me on great houses. I I can't complain you know so I was making I was making you know good buck psycho bitch about it and then Jimmy kept coming to the ring drunk and one of the guys grabbing one night and he said listen. I don't WanNa work with him anymore. He's drunk and I'll put my my body at risk and so I started doing double time time so I was doing everything until the comeback he made the comeback and then I finally said I can't do this anymore. You know where my body out and I told him you know he's he's got to cut the shit and you know he got kind of like little mousy like you know. You think you're a big deal on a Mike Dude. I think I'm a big deal but I'm doing all the work we we have a twenty minute match. I'm in there for nineteen minutes getting me. I said so you know what I'm done. I saw grabbed PAT WE TV in like Arizona or something and and I grabbed pat and I said I can't do this anymore. With him. Says come into the ring drunk wife kids a house as he lives in an apartment if he loses his job is a bear you know that's all he has to pay for. I said Dr Lose everything. I worked hard to get here so pat. Beg Me because Pat hat was the one who came up with a young stallions so he got really. I had a lot of heat with that a lot of heat and I really know it. I didn't realize pat was one who came up with that so pat said please reconsider nice and they'll pat. I said I don't WanNa do this anymore with them so we he disbanded Russ us and people came up to me like demolition and said I heard that you know you don't want Jimmy and basically it was all my fall in. I was like well you know we'll see the crema come to the top. You believe what you want to believe and that was a bill eadie that said that to me so yeah they gave me a little bit of applause. I started making some money. Then back on the back. Burner Ray was on the back burner so I just came together one day and and I went into the office sat down with Pat and our glory was formed and let's go back to the Jim powers thing because her yet talk about the stories about him coming to the ring a little bit intoxicated drunk whatever so when you to- bad about this you know why didn't call Jim Aside and say hey man listen. Do you have some issues or are. Are you drinking before you get here. Are Polish done all the work or your opponents to people you're working with. Don't feel safe with you did they. Addressed arrested thing with Jim or the fade the heat to you like it was your fault because yeah nothing but addressed it wasn't up. They you know how it was. I mean you were there for for a while. It may have changed when you got there. I don't know but you know I told Pat. I told them right in front of Jimmy out. Jimmy didn't even denied it as the guys don't want to work work with them. You know he's come into the ring stinks of alcohol and I said I can't do this anymore. You know and patches look to me so I just as you know reconsider reconsider and instead of turning Jimmy saying listen you know what the fuck are you doing man. I put this team together. I want this to work work. Nothing on me so I appreciate the fact Jed Balsa stand up and say man you know I don the three quarters of the work of not more other guys don't feel safe but then you know just because you you WANNA stand up guy and don't WanNa work with a guy who's intoxicated. You say something that takes a lot of balls. Whatever ever happened to Jim Powers because you'd go on a foreign power and gory would ray? We'll talk about that but what did they do a gym and was he not in the space of Love was in you might have been prowrestler mode where hey man it's it's twenty four seven party and he got caught up grind because it doesn't sound like the business was a priority to him. Am Mount. I don't want to put words in his mouth but you were there. What was his take on things from your it was it was a it was a big a game to him? Notoriety people noticed him. You know Kinda got caught up in the moment. The head swelled up and yeah you know he's bigger than the game and what was funny. was I gone to a shell late but I called the office and I say hey listen would be late to the show. Just want you to notice that no problem all what the agent now so go running to the ring. Jimmy already hit the ring and running it after him and I commend. He's like a nice of you to show up unlike dude they are. They knew a call the office they knew I was going to be late and you know he started giving me Shit in the ring and I said you know what this gotTa stop. I'M GONNA crack this kid so I said you know I'll just let it go. Let it go and then he started hanging out with the British bulldogs. He started coming to shows late. You know thinking I said. Do you not out of British bulldog. They could get away with this for the young stallions man. We can't get away with this stuff. You can't be running. You know muck with these guys. They Zagan trouble getting fired through the Damn British bulldogs you know and yeah he just didn't get it. I don't know just didn't get it last the business after that because when he left there I never heard from him again unless yes upen now I I he they gave me a push as a single single and you know just kind of basically on the back burner spots here and there and then when I got with you know ray that was it really it. It was over after that I didn't hear see you know see him for probably TV's when I was watching some of your work and any young stallions you really mechanically sound but I thought you would get even more mechanically sounded and it seemed to me you were really in a comfort for Joan in a hill role rather than a baby face role. Am I correct you hit a hundred percent for me. That's why I like to work do Y. Why show for you I guess because I've always been confident in my ability confident and everything that I've done you know I try to teach each set to my my daughter? You knows in gymnastics. There's no second place if some if you come second I mean somebody worked harder than you you know and that means you gotta work hard so it came easy for me because I was that bodybuild every show I go in for the most part I'd win. I walk on stage and just look at the trophies with one of my buddies and I'll take that one that one that one okay that's what I would do so I was always I always used to but I was very confident. turning heel made it so easy one of the agents agents of Blackjack or Jack Lanza. Yes Stiglitz Jack Lanza said to me when I turned heel. He said to me watch my match he because yeah you know you shouldn't do that. You should do this this and this and I'm like okay so then the next night I went out there and I did what he told me to do and I was very uncomfortable uncomfortable and then you know curt henning grammy and he goes. What are you doing and I said well? Jack told me to do these things and he goes listen. Don't get mad. Okay okay well. I'll tell you what to do. I know please. I mean you tell me police. He goes just yourself he goes. You know what I mean. Just he goes just be an asshole. He'll be that guy that walked in the locker room up people hake and I said Don at the next night I was on the show and he was on the show and I just let it loose and I walked out and had perfect standard how to feel. I said it was fucking great. It goes yes it. was that you that's what you need to be be yourself. Don't listen to these other astles yourself man. That's that's it's just great advice because I don't a lot of people that and that was a big key to my success. I think early on in my career as did many maybe up the people try to emulate someone who has an influence on them and I thought I would try to work like ric flair kind of cowardly hill. Obviously he was vicious during this heat deep but he was a cowardly he'll and prima wrestler. You know one of the best of all time yet didn't really work for me when I got dropped on my head when I turned into Stone Cold Steve Austin and what I'm basically just turned up the volume of what I was as a competitive person in an athletic endeavor. That's when everything land up for me. That was a mechanic kandic dabble we work together and WCW and stunning Steve didn't really have a bio or wasn't a character. It was just a name that doctor. I'm Tom Prichard at given me but I you know the Stone Co was me turned up to eleven or twelve and speaking about curt hitting when I walked in those doors doors. I've told this story before buddies me tell it but you know curtain emmy from. WCW Any pick me up goes Aman Kamerhe. I want to introduce you to somebody. Took took minute production truck and introduce made a Kevin done he goes back and help you a whole lot and he was right. Kevin Dunn did help Matt Whole Lot but here he goes again because Kurt heading was one of the most generous guys avenue in the business he didn't have any reason and when I came in in theory I'm in competition for a spot that he's gotten down the road. He was way better than me. At the time or maybe forever was but here's a guy in and I had no business helping you if he didn't want to but that's GonNa giving God I did. He was and that was from the best advice. I think I'm sure you've got a lot of good advice but that was some of the best advice you've ever given and it came unsolicited for model one of the all time greats great yeah yeah an to this day by fact all Orndorff I saw him last year. New York and you know went over. We know we hugged kissed each other and I said to him again. I said you know I'm going to bring it up again. I remember the day you told me you call me. Always they listen to me. Hey you look great. Got A great physique. You could wrestle Vince will never do anything with you. He said so what you have to do is promote yourself felt so whatever Paul Roma does every night in that rain no matter how tired you are how hurt you are you give those people all Roma what they're supposed to see eighty and he looked at me and goes all these years. You still remember that I said I never forget that the best advice you ever gave me. Let me tell you those days when I was in and and I still got out and added given what the had owned or from the back of my head tell me that I was a baby face I did it. I heard even more kneel the next night eight but I did it and tell me about the conversation with Paul orndorff because I can tell you exactly how it went down. He was about ten or twelve inches from Um. Your face staring directly is he was talking in a low voice and he was very intense. He wasn't feeling he wasn't angry but when Paul all is passionate about something and he's trying to give you a message or wants to give you some valuable information. That's how does it am. I correct all you hit. It spot aww Tad. I mean you look like almost to a point where you think he's he wants to peel the skin off your face but it's it's a passion you know you could see the difference and you feel it. You feel it tell you and what he's saying was right and I'll never forget this is before you guys were pretty one full in. WCW and I was actually traveling with Paul because he's the one that got me back into deer hunting. When I'd come in from Texas I'd stopped hunting because I was in the wrestling business now and didn't have anybody that hunted me and Paul owned are starting down the road together? We were both working. He'll and we'd be dragged down the road and deer out in a field man. Almost crazy go crazy when he shot dear dear Jesus Christ fucking dear he goes you haunt. I said no man I I kind of stopped hunting because started wrestling. I gotta start hunting again awhile nowhere to go at least down South Georgia so anyway I got on a only south Georgia built a seven Mag Rick Rude game out there we started hunting together but anyway here's the story manpower down a road and he'd worked a singles match with you that night and y'all probably wouldn't about twelve thirteen minutes and I told you the story a couple of months ago when CNN deer stand and during that match you know he did something upton to you and we gotta shower rod down the road that I looked over Paul and he's driving and I said man there's one part of that but that match you would Paul a really liked it. He goes hang on. Let me think about it. I'll tell you what it is. He thought were just about two or three minutes. He looked at me while the drive with the steering wheel. Hey goes it was arm bar spot and I'm thinking Helena Fuck. Did he know in an arm bar. Spot may be one of the most boring because he had he had an arm our plan on you. He had it hooked deep. You're sitting on your ass. Your feet were in front of you and he had his legs Kinda. You know net wide stance and he had that deep arm bar and his chest out and he was looking up and I said how the fuck did you know that and he goes that's power. You're and that's all these goals. That's power rather. He goes had him right there and I was showing those people I had power and I said Jesus crisis you're right. That was my favorite. Is that a believable what because you he was gonna Flip Flop and fly for you're GonNa make that dynamic dynamic athletic comeback that you would make but that was my favorite part of the match and he knew it and I guess he knew what was going to my head yeah well. You know what I mean you were. You're at that level and that's what a lot of people are not like even today. They're not at that level. You know they think you know that you you have to set yourself on fire and throw yourself off the top steel cage. You know to get an applause from the people get their high spot. It just doesn't work. It's like bugs bunny right and Donald Duck or whatever his name is Daffy duck when he blows himself up on stage in the people finally applaud for them right. He's like like encore encore. I could only do this once. That's what it's like today. In wrestling they can only do it for our friends. 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Big Show Goes Hollywood | Featuring: Big Show

After the Bell

46:57 min | 7 months ago

Big Show Goes Hollywood | Featuring: Big Show

"Coming up we have got a big show for you with the big show. This could get confusing. Atb starts now her. You already know him as the world's largest but today is the world's largest podcast gassed man. Who Truly needs no introduction? There was one anyway the big show show. Thanks for joining me man via facetime. It's nice to see your face. You know it's funny. I got a little face time story stone cold to give buddy of mine and I Facetime STEVE ONE TIME. Picks UP THE PHONE. He starts laughing a so. What are you dammit? Dudes don't face time to broke the dude code facetime another day so but I'm facetime now but it's for business so I guess it's okay and we won't hold it against you come to think of it though I find it very rare. Facetime my girlfriend or my kids. Yeah Yeah I don't facetime dudes either. I don't know why facetime Steve Day I just missed face or something. I don't know facetime Marquetia all the time. That's different FACETIME Mark Henry. So sometimes just seeing mark smile makes my day now agree with that for sure? Absolutely well you mentioned the Steve. So I knew I'd be with today so yesterday. I actually sat down and watched the broken skull session on. W Network and Steve Is a quite masterful interviewer in his own way. And really all the all the Tent Poles. That YOU KINDA would've wanted to in a in a career retrospective so. I will do my best not to repeat but it actually peaked a few questions on my own listening to your Your view on things so off the top of my head. You guys went in depth pretty heavy on the difference of the environment when you went from. Wcw where you've been on top. You'd been the champion you you've been in the NWF and then you arrived in New York and it was very very different. You compared it to the Like a shark tank right in this day and age twenty twenty. I think you'd probably attest that the environment backstage in the business as a whole is far as WB is is definitely a different landscape in your opinion. Do you think that that mentality would benefit the product in the talent in this day and age? I think that's the one thing that I see a lot with the talent is. I see dr I C Hard I see passion but confidence is lacking because they haven't found themselves and I know because I was there for years and I have a competence of myself as a talent so and I think sometimes a little bit more aggressive environment is beneficial to make make you grow and weed out those. It shouldn't be there. You know what I mean because it's it's really good. I always hear people when I I. I love the business. I love the business. You've been five minutes unless you make a dramatic change in yourself to create a new following to create new interest to create new Is On you. This is where you are you know. And it's not about settling it's about. It's about finding away to keep improvement to make every day better to reevaluate some undertaker's amazing that you know for so many years. Undertaker was the dead man. He came out is entrance iconic entrance of all time in my opinion of course then he reached a point where it's like you know what I'm going to change. And then you got to see undertakers. The American bad ass. He had the bike. He started putting more Mma holds because he's an enemy fan so he started doing more shoot anime type holes and changed his style a little bit to evolve with the Times you know and I think that comes through the pressure and having people around you push to be better and people above you that you're trying to get after and you're trying to get better than them. I don't really see that because I see everybody's kind of slotted right now in our and I think that's the thing that makes it saddens me a little bit is you know. It's it's it's tough for some talent when they get put in certain slot to get out of that slot especially when they're green and earn experience. They don't know how and they're not going to be lead that way. You know I mean. In a lot of ways. Everything's hand fed to them and a lot of ways. They're on their own. It's a really weird dynamic to try to explain but you know let's just try to to give an ear anybody that asks anything no matter who they wanna try to help because it it sucks doing something you love and having passed support but now understand how you fit in or or a where you are called you know what I mean. Sometimes some people get too big too big entity fast. And they burn out. You know some guys get so frustrated the can ever make that transition that click whatever it is in society place to be. I would much rather be a talent when I came third than a talent now that just just because of the Environment. The environment was different. I mean I think for me. It was better because the people that I was working where the people that I respect it and Kinda grew up with and there was leadership all the way around. I think that's one thing that made it hurts a little bit is. There's not enough real veteran leadership on the road and in the rain skies. That have you know. There's a few guys but one I started. Everybody was a veteran. You also had the luxury of having your first match against me you know. Yeah exactly so I mean I I can't I can't compare that to anything else but what I'm trying to say is I think there's only give better from the top down and with the top down sets a very high bar. Everyone else achieves to set that bar. The top guy has to be pushed from underneath to you know like it's a real hydraulic fluid situation. Were people underneath on. The lower card has to be pushing that division to get it going. And that's you've seen such an amazing Transformation of our women's division is because you look at the top talent. We had our women's division heads Charlotte Fair Becky Lynch and Bailey and Sasha and these girls that just went out and changed the dynamic of women's wrestling. And then what are you get you get all these girls that come in behind them that see okay? This is an opportunity. I want this opportunity and the girls or more aggressive in the backstage role for time for having good matches having quality matches I see the hunger that I don't see the guy. Sometimes I think that's that's worthy dynamic is shifted. Maybe explain a little bit about the difference between Hungary and pushing and being driven. Because you're talk girls your Charlotte Your Becky. All you girls top. They're not giving up their spot. Brian James they're not giving up. If you weren't you'd have to come take it and this is GonNa take more than one or two good matches to get their spot. You'RE GONNA have to prove yourself. And I think that changes the whole division because that dynamic becomes of we all have to grow together. And everybody's trying to grow and you almost end up with a bottleneck of talent because I mean you look at exte- and their women's division is so stacked and it's keeping all the girls on raw smackdown on their toes on any competitions on a bad thing man. Competition is a good thing for for making talent focused. Because I think sometimes when it's not we don't really have gone cruising Chilin. It's fun you know. Get Environment and get environment for for working is is almost I would say almost a little bit of chaos almost out of control but not quite if you're out of control enough where where you're you're pushing that hard on the near doing it right. You know if you're not challenged if you're not challenging yourself and that's that's a fetid place you can't grow so let's play a little game of what if now you. Obviously what? If I a wins I wouldn't vote mass. So let's let's say hypothetically big show in twenty twenty having all the knowledge that you've acquired over over your Chris Career. If you are in say the position of someone just arriving in annex t or just coming from an x t to raw smackdown. What would you say is the most important a bit of advice you could give yourself mouths shut and observed? Don't run on kiss everybody's sick their hand. Introduce yourself you know. Don't bother anyone learn. And when the opportunity presents itself Showcase go balls out you know 'cause there's thousands of people who come up and shake. I'm so and so and I'm really happy to be here and I'm really happy that I've been a fan my whole life and Yada Yada Yada okay. Show me what you can do. Show me you can put seats. Show me you can have a match. You can tell a story not you do your stuff idea my steps you knew your stuff. I do my stuff finish in. Uh that's that's that's a bumper car race. I don't WanNa See da. Make me get a mostly invested in. What you're doing is a talent. Sure looking some great talents. We've had you know it wasn't a high spot fast. It wasn't who could do the biggest members of the best moves the major emotionally invested and that can also be done with a lot of very exciting spots olive Ramos Stereo Ramos Stereo. Eddie growl those guys were you know Ray is amazing. Eddie was but they got your mostly invested in what they did you know. They walked out there with confidence and and gave you the Ramos character. That gave you the Eddie. Guerrero character you know. And that's the thing all the politics and enhance shaking and BS in the back big deal. You're nice guy good for you in the ring and so that aggression. You know one of the things and hours talking about Becky Becky. Lynn says want has inspired me a lot in the past ten years in any other athlete that I've worked with and Becky I saw her when she first came up here and we were doing tours in Europe on the road and I saw Becky Wins Division. What it was I think there were still calling the divas division back then maybe But the one thing about every match that becky had I thought well she's just hustle and is hard because we're in Ireland or you know what I mean. She was trying to beat her opponent and every cover was translated desperation trying to. I'm trying to beat this person. This is a contest. This is a story. I'm giving everything I have wasn't a spot best. It was a story that you get emotionally involved in you. Pay attention to and I remember thinking like that. If the guys don't change how they work is girls are gonNA run over and it's evident now it's evident in how the women's division completely changing respect. And if you don't WanNa see quality wrestling stories and Rustling Psychology. He kind of go to the women's division if you're arresting purist because you're GonNa get better stories you know. No no no offense to the other guys. I've allow respect for the guys who work with the guys that are there now but I think the guys need to. I don't know shake it off Wipe off some this lag. Do something to to to remember why they're there and what they're doing. So in your opinion what do you think? What do you think changes now? What I think is work ethic is work ethic and working smart and getting invested in your character. Get invested in the storylines and creating something. Nothing's being created for you. You can still create a good story with an opponent. You're healthy and I go out there. I could tell a compelling story to get you over in a match dry story. I did it with Gender Mahal to get gender. His you know whether people are generally champion on Gender Mojo completely hundred Eddie returned his work from three man band to when he became a champion his aggressiveness. I mean in other way. He got he you know. I had a match with a couple of months before that and I remember you know saying US awhile. Genders really changed how he works. He's really stepped up and it was and you could feel it in his work in his aggression and his attitude. I think that light bulb was really onto them. There and then he meant was able to manifest that into a pretty good run. You know what I mean from out of nowhere where no one expected. Now we're used to seeing the same players in the same position. You know they flip flop here and there when you get some general hall who comes in out of the blue. That's a good thing because that shows that it is possible the rest of the roster and that should have a a a glaring light bulb for the rest of the guys in the locker room. Same Things Kofi Kingston Ryan Pinkston for years was you know consistent Kofi Kingston couldn't have a bad match with anyone could have a good match with me about all cozy showed the entire roster if you work hard if you stay committed if you get people emotionally invested in you opportunities will come. You know believe me. Ww Two sitting there like only these guys are going to be main eventers. That'S COMPLETE BS. The entire roster. That's getting a paycheck. As a chance to be a main event you know it's what they can find their way to make themselves different and make them an tell a story. That's what stands are pissed off about the talk. About how great the attitude era wasn't we are a bunch of maniacs but what we had is is we had our character beliefs and we were in situations and we went whole hog into that situation. Hey don't go anywhere. I got bills to pay. I'll be right back when we're as you look back on your career. What are some of your personal favorite opponents or matches or maybe some things that don't get as much love as you'd like? Oh well I think you know obviously I would send a great ones like Hogan staying and flair and an rn and a lot of those guys were just a kid in candy store. Working with those are heroes growing up. You know Throughout my career I had some great runs with a love tagging. When I was tagging with Billy Gunn where shoguns I had a great time with that. Never got a Lotta love but you know it was. It was a fun time as its acting stuff. I deal with King you know Kane and I just I had so much fun working with Kane every night like where just too grumpy big is. We're just grumpy like I mean I could tell everybody. The headwork with Canine got those two grumpy bastards inevitably made in a good way in a fun way. The run I had was famous. What am I feel the same as I always talk about? Shame is one of the toughest. Barnes ever have a lot of fun machines I mean I got bruised and cut the crap kicked. Outta me every night but I don't want to mark Henry to you know mark and I had a lot of fun. We had a few there for a while and when he was a heavyweight champion and I worked really good it worked into me have like a five second title reign before Daniel Bryan took it up. Just about just about yeah. I think I lost the quickest history or something like that. So I got my Brian pick the carcass aftermarket. I destroyed each other so conversely the despite all the incredible moments memories. You've been a part of you've had Quite a few things that have lived on. Maybe not for the reasons you've chosen as does anybody new. You're wasn't gonNA go there. I love down because every New Year's I get like one hundred and fifty emojis of me doing that New Year dance. I love that one. That's but a lot of a lot of these days with the Internet. Things get dug up and dragged around oftentimes. And you talk about falling off the top of was at Cobo Hall in a Monster Truffle Hall. Yeah Yeah Any of these sort of sort of ridiculous over the top by today's standards stories. Any of them. Do you look back on and go. That was hilarious now in hindsight or is there anything that maybe you want to defend. You think that gets. Maybe a bad rap. That doesn't deserve the only one. That other founders Jerko used to break my balls all the time about me getting knocked out by the mechanical bull killer. Destroy your your monster. And the next week we split up you get knocked out by a mechanical bowl. It's like well that's the way it goes some days. It's your day some days. It's not now I mean any of that stuff that I've done. I mean there's a lot of things you can poke fun at. You know like you know me wrestlemania fighting ocoee Bono when I have forty yards silk wrapped up my ass hanging out and they brought in ocoee. Bono's supposed to be this five hundred something pound guy waiting by forty pounds so it. Kinda shifted the whole dynamic. Vince got mad at me because I oh wait a ocoee Bono by a giant. What do you want a member? Then so you need to listen white denim like he was just so mad at me because I was like five or nine ocoee bone away. Like four seventy two or something like that so bone away more but now all that stuff. Here's the thing if you look back in career all the things that went back to went wrong or didn't turn out like you wanted to. That's that's what I call selective booking you know what I mean hindsight's always twenty twenty hundred Matt's you can always talk about. How great a match would have benefited done. Doesn't that and the other after a match? Sure as an as an athlete you have to really especially as a superstar you have to be committed in your match be in it mentally physically one for safety and two for growth and when it's over contemplated if there's some things you didn't like about it change it don't do it again and move forward because whether you have good matches or accolades or any of that crap doesn't matter you're they're doing your job and you get the privilege and the art to go down that ramp and work in front of those fans every night because when it gets taken away from you. I don't care who you are one day. It will stop whether father time kicks her asks undefeated or God forbid injuries. It'll be taken away from and you don't want to look back on your career reflecting that you bits the entire time you were doing the greatest job in the world because of whatever. Everything that you're doing that rang. You have control over? It's up to you to find out how to make the most out of yourself. There's a period of your career that I feel like it doesn't get much love or attention just because it was seemingly so fleeting was when they rebooted DC. W and you were a big part of that. Is They. Thought you hated me. They birkbeck kissing I out of the building right. I want to get your perspective on things because obviously when when e C W was relaunched as a brand of wwe. It wasn't the w the fans had known and loved it. Was something very very different. You were there on the front lines. You were one of the faces of this. This new project would or some of your memories of that. I think there was a big disconnect. W have with these CW fans. I remember going to the live event shows and the merchandise that they were selling at the AC w shows was undertaker triple h. You know like these. Buy A ticket to see these guys you know. They came to see Tommy Dreamer. You know what I mean. I had to earn a lot of respect from these. Cw Fans and it took a lot for me. Because when I first mind that match David. Hammer starting ballroom. Batista Gave Them Hell Matt's but we weren't what they WANNA see Right. They didn't they didn't give a crap. They love me. Late Day. Batista. They may have like the big show independently but not for their EC. W They wanted the guys that that they identify with it they were emotionally invested in and that was the difference in it took a while to get emotionally invested with these. Cw audience today realized like and a big not. Such a bad guy will cut him a break. You know but it took me a while of Not letting that get to mean and every night trying to do the best that I could every night working with guys like sued. Who was such an amazing Lunatic he was fun. Because I never. I never knew what was going to do. He was so talented. Like you never knew right or are you working with Rv de who what in the middle of salvage up up and give you the high spinning back. Knock your molars down the back here. You need a comeback. Now you just have to ask for one. You don't have to really start making what was it like for you personally. Having gone from you know the pinnacle of WCW to top of the car and wwe. Now you find yourself on E. C. W. is sort of a a fledgling newer brand to your point. You're not getting the love or the admiration of the fans anymore. What did that feel like to you personally and professionally then bugging? I'd already been third works. I'd already gone from Wrestlemainia two thousand main event a few months later being VW. So I went out there one night in. Ob dubbing their seven people. There and some guy asked me if I want to because he was hot dogs outside as I'm in the ring to show you on your dog. Yeah thanks appreciate it it's one of those environments where you can actually hear what the fans are saying here. I know that somebody to pick up bread on the way home because they won't have breakfast sandwiches the next day. It's like but you know an awesome Saturday. You know I take that experience. Made it a negative thing bist and Moan and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. But you know what in the OB Doug Experience? I get a chance to get away to reboot to rethink and establish some friendships and relationships that I could make in. W W when I I go I gotta W that was like you know a nuclear power plant. I was so radiated I mean you know there guys incumbent twenty feet to me like you know what I mean like. It was like I got way too much heat. You know what I'm saying so big contracts from another territory giant Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. I was a heat magnet where I got lovie W I got to be friends with Batista Brock and Seen Randy Orton. The next generation of main eventers and it was good for me because I got to interact with those guys and and build relationships with them. That made it easier for me Once it started picking up again I mean I. Oh my entire resurgence of my career to Brooklyn and anyway you know a long time. I was still napalm when I came back from. Vw and Brock's main event somehow got stuck in a plane or something like that and Jack Lanza in a house show through the main event against Brock and brock. And I tore the house down before that I was working mid card. I was like in body slam matches or stuff like that. You know what I mean and I filled in for that matter back Brockton. I literally tore the frigging house. 'cause brock and flat out go. I mean you know he's hysterical. Now he's the beast and all that stuff but rock gets it just like Craig angled got damage. Wrestling background made him a better performance. So I remember Hearing the story that they were asking brock. There who your next opponent says. I WANNA work with shop. He's a giant. You get work you know. You guys are idiots. Were sleeping on basically you know how Brockett sure and you know brock. And I started working here in the house down. And it changed a lot of people's perceptions of was talent and who I was as an individual and I really hope that break to have them re look at me and so that's something that I don't I've ever told on any cassidy go. Brock listener responsible for the resurgence of the big show. The big show blame brock. I'm sure he'll take your call passing the heat. I'm learning I'm learning from the vested nowadays that you've you've said that you've opted for a lighter schedule within the walls of wwe. What else is there left for you to accomplish Anyone in particular. You'd still like to to lock up with or all. I'd like to work with entire roster. You know what I mean. It's just find the right train of that works. That makes sense that allows you to take my brand and using most effectively. I'd like to do a couple more live events. I'm not so crazy about doing. Tv's you know what I mean because it's just a long day that after a while you just want to bash your head inside of the concrete wall. I'm good with that. I've done twenty plus years of TV's and But I think I would be you know like getting out on some of the live events and working some the guys with the environment a little bit more. Lax pressured for time cues and their matches and whatnot and help them along. That way would be great. I talked to the upscale doing a COUPLA tourists who I still have a little bit of a name so I can help the card out a little bit but can also be around these guys and much more relaxed environment. Let me ask you this I. It seems to be recurring theme a lot of talent. Come on here and explain why they prefer live events over television or they mentioned that they do prefer live events over television but explain why explained the listeners with the difference in those two days is TV number one? You're there at twelve or one pending on the call time. We don't go on the air until seven eight or nine depending on where we are. Guess eight now is the latest on. It's a long day of your they're your catering you can go work out if there's a gym in the arena You can go do some some exercises in the arena viewer run the staps hit the robes or do some stuff in the rating maybe and then about five thirty six doors hit and then it gets really busy really fast and things change. I've had opponents chains ten minutes before I was supposed to go out I've had match times go Four minute mass to all into segments that the pressure at that level. Tv gets tiresome after a while there for so long and you're held up your held up then it's a sprint and then it's over and there's the next town you know. I think you know with with the live events the things that masonry users you get there later in the day all your workout and stuff is done as prepared. You're gone you're GonNa work with times on a factor. Tv's I think are a little older woman. Because sometimes you'll have three times the amount of talent you have a live event so locker jammed if stepping over bags and you know that was. My thing is a veteran too. Like if you're not on raw or smackdown tonight can you back and go put it in car? You know some guys will drag in three or four bags like they were moving into the place. You know what? I'm a member in Seattle one time day. O'brien was a champion. He was literally standing in the corner. Dressing wild four guys weren't on. Tv show remain nameless to protect their identity or sitting around their feet up holding court. You know what I mean. Get your bags. The champion is standing here dressing. You know because he's a nice guy. Because that's not how Daniel Daniel never say. Hey I need to place address you know what I mean like it. That kind of thing. Tv's would drive me insane back in the day. So yeah I think. Tv's are your separate. The men from the boys as far as pressure goes. Would you agree that the live events are where most of the learning really happens live? Events is where the learning happens. Because there's no you know. Tv's to me is like You sink or swim so as you were saying The live events are where most of the boys and girls really learned the craft. I think I a lot of the overseas. Tours is a good time to learn the craft tune. Because you're not doing a show going home you're there for you know ten twelve days in a row on a tour and it's really a good chance usually working the same person every night so you can really dial in to get. That Matt. Were needs to get that psychology in the match where it needs to be. That's why I think the the longer overseas to do the Europe tours or some the torch through Asia and stuff like that was a great learning environment. Because you're totally immersed in the business. The guys locker room you Sam when you go to. Your room is standing on the bus. You know that kind of saturation is I think is one of the best things for talent. this lucky enough to get booked on one of those tours to grow. Because that's what it takes is at total saturation of the people you're working with. Is there anybody that stands out in your mind off top of your head? That really improved before. Your very eyes are really kind of impressed. You over the course of a tour that you got to watch grow like that. Oh Yeah not just on his name the bus but shameless obscene shameless grow on a tour. Just from just being overexcited. Eager to changing and become Elvis out brown stroman and other abroad. I've seen Bron ORTA. Were two of us it was I think bray and Braun Against Kane and I I watched Braun grow for being the ring with cannon. I ultra by the end of the tour like something clicked in his head he got. How important was it for you? Or what was going on inside your head when you had that program on television with Bron where officially or otherwise there is seemingly the passing of the torch. Sort of MOA. How important was that for you? And how did that feel concerned? Were destroyed left hip gone. It was pretty important always on my bone from my hip ball joined. It looked like a bowling ball. They didn't understand how walk in let alone working. While I was committed to the project the project was Braun and I was really happy I was able to because it made sense. Pull out his athleticism. Lot of his strength allowed ages technical ability that she does have. It's not just the guy that holds his hands up near those are. That's what I'm doing now. But you know he can actually Russell those things that I hope as his career goes on it gets the opportunity. He'll incorporate more than not so much. The KIP UPS. And the drop kicks but some of the. Some of the whole city was demonstrating chain. Holds and stuff made a lot of sense where the right opponent. It makes a lot of sense. You Know Because Me Dad. I guess he is like a son to me as him. Exurbia woods you really kissing markets. Yeah but brandon real good job of understanding what events wanted in trying to give one ten percent effort every night. The the true test for Lebron's going to be as how he finds his role and continues to grow going forward. They built them up. Is Monster among man you know and all that but now it's is how does he continue to grow from that and continue to stay over? Who's you know a lot of times? You'RE NOT GONNA get big. Sometimes you get put in situations where you're where you'RE GONNA get over jet figure out a way to get over. And what would you personally credit that too? Because that's something you've dealt with throughout your career where you come in with a with a whole bunch of steam usually get to a big main event or pay per view match up. You get booed me over and go away exactly. Yeah how do you? How do you keep in keep doing it? Stay positive stay in the angle. I mean you know you know that you're not gonna I'm not gonNA have a run like John Cena. I'm not going to have a run. Like another like a Roman reigns. I'm not going to be the guy you know what I mean. I am a tool. I am an asset. You know I've told. I told that to another friend of mine. Who's on the show? That was an attraction. Kind of like me has lifted. We're gimmicks they can do the show with us or late in the show without is up to us to make sure that they need us in whatever role that is you know and you know. Sometimes you know that yes. This you know made Plotter this many people or entire locker room. But it's my job to go forth with that conviction and then put a hard ten percent effort into getting the guy over that they need me to get over. You know because that's the new talent or that's the different talent or that's the next opponent for whoever that type guy isn't that's just the way the system works you. Mammy you look at you know Johnson Johnson. Who stayed on top for over ten years right? Heard of BERTA. Accomplishment may talk about Hulk Hogan and stone cold and rock and all. Those guys are amazing. But you look at the Ron Johnson. Have for ten eleven years. He was the man beginning to end. He got people over your. Did you got over or take or taken more serious talent by being the ringling John when our loose you know what I mean and Johnson and made sure that there are a lot of butts in seats you know. I remember a buy houses being full. Allow The Times Working John so that kind of a talent is a rare entity now Dorn Ford for broad bronze should understand his estate trade to Not come down to work with someone but find a way your encourage someone to step up to work with him and by him making them a better player or more serious player They'll go forward. The business will do better and he'll do better. He'll have a long career. 'cause you really only good as a talent if you can keep yourself over other people over absolutely true. I mean that's you literally made a career of it you look back in and you've got Johnson even up to Roman reigns but everyone who's walked through the doors brock listener. Eddie Guerrero Chris Jericho. You've had long important runs with just about everybody. I've been lucky and fortunate that way but I never went into Confusing the narrative. I knew my job was to do. Their job was to slay the giants and it was my job to either go away or find another angle and do something and build myself back up as a giant toback. Whether it's a face or heel you know that's it's it's really a great position to band you know whether it's the old story. Jack of all trades master. None new role. You played it to perfection but nowadays You find yourself in another role not unfamiliar in front of the silver screen but Tell me a little bit about your new. Netflix project are dude. I'm so excited about this. This is a partnership with netflixing. Wwe it's called the show. It's a multi. Cam Alive Comedy Family Sitcom and shot in the same states. That cheers Morgan Mindy Stays twenty five at paramount's is a lot of really famous shows that were shot on this stage and It's myself Alison Mine. Who's a great actress? She plays my wife. Lily Brooks O'brien plays my middle daughter. Who's very politically correct to Vegan? Savior like she's she's on all points. Intel. She's basically saying museum. Oh God talk Julia Donna Field. Is she plays my youngest daughter She is The genius in the family but she's the youngest but we don't know if she's going to be like a Steve Jobs for apple or like a guru as far as genius. Despicable NEGRU got like Candy stands for cash going in Beta fish. Fight clubs like there's a whole bunch of stuff going on and I kind of let her get away with everything. 'cause she's kind of like you know my my heart so to speak. You know as you know. She manipulates me. Like no tomorrow. And then railing cast her. Plays my oldest daughter Lola from a different relationship. Vermont gets a job in European lowlands to move with us in Tampa. So it's me the big show retired Been a husband a dad with his family and interact with these four women who bounce around like a pinball and it's it's been real small world how it all came together and From the very first reading with this entire cast we all clicked so well. Because you never know what you're going to get when you do casting like that professional you want to work well and I knew that on my set because I've been on other sets before I knew on my serve I wanted to stat of Of Safety of of of acceptance of of of you know not taking inclusion. I wanted to be a Setup you know what I mean. I wanted to buy respected from people building. Our sets all the way up to our producers. Writers are actresses. Anybody came on a guest spot and thought we really really did a great job. That Kosice girls. I have three daughters now. I mean this past December. I took all three for Christmas presents or Ariana Grande Concert. In Anaheim I went to an area. Ground concert you strike me as as a big time Ariana Grande Dame fan I if anyone likes around and `Grande. It's probably choice. What she's got one Helluva Voice I. I was surprised a little bit. She was belting out tunes and she's like this big but she's gotten this gigantic boy. Sounds like oh well this is it so bad. I might hit by some so might may or may not be my playlist now but anyway the girls. I think that's one thing missing the writing. The guys isn't really put this thing together. Jason Burger and business guys put together a very when you don't have to dumb it down like a lot of family shows. It's dumbed down to be right. This was not really dumbed down on it. It's very funny. There's a lot of family issues to deal with and you're also dealing with us. Seven foot Four hundred pound man child who maybe doesn't partners made the decisions but he makes them all the love. So it's GonNa be really good. I think people love it comes April sixth start streaming able six on April. Sixth on Netflix. I was going to be one of my next questions. But how how did it feel to television in front of a live? Audience gives it more familiar than or what was the difference loved it. Oh God I loved it everything you could hope and dream of and all wrapped into one like we decided tonight live with Iraq when we guest spot with I go a little taste that live audience and it was like man it was it never got out of my system. I knew that's what I wanted to do. And I knew who I am. And how funny another `fraid to make fun of myself. And I knew that I could come up with a hit If I get the right vehicle to do it and I drove Vance absolutely insane about doing something like this and it's almost like I think bence was probably more relieved when this partnership happened in this idea came about because all thank God I can picture off my ass relief relief that filing you know he could put this in my hands and a fifth saints or or or sleds. It's on me and you know I told the girls all the time. I have no doubt one hundred ten percent that are fans are gonNA love the show. There's something for everyone you can sit down with the whole family and watch his demographic it's a good family show. I mean it's something that I think. That is a little bit rare for nowadays it only because the family actually loves each other. There's not a bunch of dysfunctional crap going on wholesome SORTA show. Yeah it's a family you WANNA be a part of. I mean that's the vibe. I've got back from some of the people. We polled insensitive. Come to the shows you know our family. You want to be a part of on the kind of dad you WANNA have. 'cause I guess I'm just goofy enough and protective enough that it works out. Give me wild behind. The scene stories are off cameras stories from the new show. I do know this is funny and I might get in trouble for this but you know it's okay. If it happens on my show I get in trouble for it so you got free rein. Well the golden rule it paramount is the only guy that's allowed to park next to the stadiums at paramount is Dr Phil so I could rent stays twenty five twenty six which we did for the big show show but I had to park in a parking lot hundred and fifty yards away and who fit to work where Dr Phil Park. Ten feet away. How did you try to remedy this somehow though never got remedy because I I didn't have the stroke paramount basically said you know sorry? It's grandfather Dan Doctor. Phil's the only one that's allowed to park there. You might be the world's largest athlete but still no match for Dr Phil with my closer parking spot. Never mind and I'm arthritic up blow out knees a metal hip or distant my back. You know what Dr Phil it's a really puts you in perspective in the world. Housman used to tease Malcolm. She says so expert today. You know advised dude yesterday. Salt in the would my friends salts. God bless her. I love her so Yeah it's it's a little joke and all sincerity if you WANNA talk about. Is Dr Phil Down? Amazing show helped so many people and you know he's been on that lot for long times so if I had to look at it and rusting terms understand. It is a veteran. I'm a rookie. He gets too far clubs. Everything in the world can be wrestling if you wanted to be. Every lesson in life can be taught to wrestling psychology or wrestling interaction. Yes I could not agree anymore. April six the big show show on Netflix. Definitely do not miss that Show what else he up to anything else going on at the moment or I try and cardio like a madman so down there soon the TV show. I got a little Chubby to be a TV. Dad I got about four fifteen. I think and I'm down this way this morning. Three eighty so hopefully by many. I'll be around three seventy want. All six backed out that way. I can look created straighten face and go which got rumor or otherwise. Are you working on some sort of Burger project? Yeah that's real talk. Jay Fable told you that okay. Nobody outside sources I listen. I'm flexing my journalistic muscles your journalists. He mustered out you busted the wider. I'm working on the big show so soon. I'm it's still in the infant stages. I'm making sure there are a lot of things are are Straighten accurate you know. I have a real big thing. I want hormone free grass bed healthy. May I want? Give me if I'M GONNA put it on my table. I WanNa make sure you can put it on yours. Beautiful might be my next thing. I might get like a food truck and also big Joe Burgers at Wrestlemania. What I mean. I think I could do that. But burgers do whatever the hell you want to make east before I go to work. Because you don't make profits at this exactly exact- full on your own supply. That will when you get when you get closer to launch or whatever. I'm happy to have you back here. The awesome and definitely. I'll send you a box when we get rolling up on you bucks. I've got tests done a couple of burgers that we talked about now. And it's a it's a really cool concept of what we're doing and the burgers absolute taste amazing settled and that was the main thing for me. I didn't want some frozen China Crappy Burger. I WANNA get real meat. So that's what we got tremendous. I cannot wait to try it I show. Will I appreciate you taking your journalistic endeavors early? Your little scary. I'm telling him I'm impressed with that. Young Man I'm really impressed on you appreciate it. I I gotTA keep on your toes. All right show where you are always welcome here on after the bell and I. I can't wait to see around me anytime. Thank you for letting me under show appreciate it and you know I keep up with your Sosa me. A lot of people respect what you're doing the show. Don't change their. You're doing a great job by the way rowdy. Thank you show. I will see you soon. Sabre our time to part ways with one another has rapidly approached and finally arrived but I would not leave you without a little Zen for your day. The man who said it was Jack Handy. An infamous comedy. Who said it takes a big man to cry but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. It felt apropos. Thank you once again to the big show for hanging out today. Make sure you follow at after the bell on instagram twitter and facebook. Send us any thoughts. You may have used it. Hashtag after the bell. I know I've said this. A bunch like every single week. But if you're an apple podcast user and you haven't left me a review yet. Please shoot me five stars or for. Just don't do one. It really helps get the word out. I swear if you're using an android follow. Heb On spotify Pandora. I heart radio or Google podcasts. So that you never miss an episode. Because it's FUN TO BE ENLIGHTENED. Isn't it and you can follow me at. Wwe Graves on twitter on instagram. And I swear I'll be back next week with more wisdom more vitriol and more. Wwe after the bell.

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Packers Outlast Panthers, Mahomes Return Spoiled, Falcons Stun Saints, Week 10 Recap

The GM Shuffle

42:01 min | 11 months ago

Packers Outlast Panthers, Mahomes Return Spoiled, Falcons Stun Saints, Week 10 Recap

"Is there anything better seriously. It's cold outside your miserable. You've got five more months of winter. Here we go but you go. Hey it Sunday. They've football Mike. You have lived in different areas of the country. Obviously in your football tenure. I've always been either in Canada on the East Coast. So I just love the fact that you can just cozy up with a nice blanket and you can watch lambofield and the snow like to me that this is when football is at its best crazy game specifically with Carolina Green Bay but honestly really this was bizarro world all over the place. A lot of weird games. This first and foremost that feeling of football November isn't it special. A really is in the best part. is you go outside. You smell like the woodburning fireplaces you can smell the fire wood burning. It's like the greatest smell of all. You know you see that little snowflakes coming down and people don't care they drink beer in the cold cold weather. It doesn't bother him he. The smell of rock worst is incredible in Green Bay. I love the people that charged a park on their lawn. You Know Twenty Five Bucks Park here. Who cares right so now? There's nothing better than that. There really isn't it's as it gets dark at five o'clock so you're kind of comfortable. It's like soup weather you know it's like I know soups not a meal. But like get soup weather right. Exactly you get no reason to go anywhere Ilana goanywhere myself a frolic couch. Ask some hot chocolate some soup and away. We go of all the Games today. Certainly Certainly Green Bank Carolina was a ton of fun comes down to a goal. Line stand is Christian McCaffrey. Who is in in the mix I think for the MVP conversation he gets stuffed by Green? Bay's defense offense. And this is all about running games your mic. This Green Bay's run defense stopped McCaffrey. And a relatively quiet. One hundred eight yards and a touchdown on twenty carries for the panthers. Meantime Aaron Jones is an animal guys three rushing touchdowns for the second time this season great game and a great win for the packers. Yeah you know and it never looked like it right right. I mean they get that horrendous roughing the passer call on Gerald McCoy right in front of Jerome Vulgar. I mean just a horrendous call right I mean he says he landed on top of them. I I mean it was really a bad call. I mean rodgers catches the flag but look they got the ball down there in the red zone and they couldn't get it in the end zone. You know they don't even block Geico even block a guy. The Guy Ram through the gap and tackle them. You know and so when you're to four in the red zone and you're one for two on goal to go you're going to come out a loser. I I think the more relevant factor of this game was you know. Green Bay is GONNA lose a critical game this year because their defense is going to be good enough. I mean that that to me just as is reinforced. I I don't think Carolina's very good. Their offensive line is suspect. That's all kyle and play. Well of course another fumble but for the most part I mean rodgers address is going to have to. They're going to have to carry it with their offense because I'm not sure they can do it. They get a red zone turnover. They stop them on the goal to go. Hey by the way it you know maybe I need to go back to Hofstra but can someone fuck and explain to me why you go for two when you're down by fourteen on the first. Can you explain this to me. Like if Ron Rivera just kicked the extra goddamn point right. And now he goes and scores a touchdown he can kick the extra point but he was needing to place to just get the damn thing the overtime like somebody explain this to me. Yeah the amount of tweets and people are going to hate me and you're GONNA get Lombardi gone riverboat rhyme. Does it again go in for two inexplicable. I mean I don't understand. Did it like who came up with this theory. Like what's wrong with overtime. Like what's wrong with kicking field goals not like the clapper tonight. Fifty seven yard field goal opened the drive up. I mean that's zero. You give that a lot of thought I swear to God I want someone to send me video clips of the clapper. Actually talking in his microphone went the game. We all see him standing there. We got the MIC on him but he never talk. Never see him move his lips. He must be ventriloquist. WHO's the most famous ventriloquist? Eddie McCarthy wanted to McCarthy Guy you want him McCarthy's McCarthyism but yeah so one of the McCarthy's yes I mean I don't get it like. Why all of a sudden are we going to like who put like these analytical people? They're like where are they coming from. Say we should go for two. Were down by fourteen you know. Let's just keep playing the game. How about if we just keep playing the game like Watt? Why do we have to try to win the game on one play later like you know? It's like ridiculous ridiculous like at some point. Just keep playing the frigate well it gives you a better percentage to win the game really how about when we go over that when I get my ass fire can we go over. That percentage of you know hey you know I got my ass fire but you know the percentages said. I was like the same baseball like we're not going to substitute the right handed pitcher for the right hand hitter like it stuff enough. Yeah the way your best tweets for those who are new listeners. The clapper is Jason Garrett. WHO's the cowboys head? Coach should mention Mike and I are taping this at halftime of the cowboys. Game Right now. And the funniest tweet you sent to the cowboy's score their first touchdown you see Jason Garrett Holding is index. Speak and use it. Yeah that's right. Gopher one excellent leadership I love it when he puts. What's that one finger up there? Is Somebody tweet back. Somebody tweeted to me. I Apologize For not remembering his name. He said Very Vince Lombardi ish when he puts that one figure out there it's comical comical. Really I mean we could do a whole Sitcom on him. I mean what was that. TV show back in the day with Craig t creaky Nelson coach. Yeah remember when he was a coach like Minnesota the state. It looks like the gophers congratulations for the gophers by the way for beaten Penn State. Joe's team yeah. I mean seriously like what does he bring to the game like I just. I don't now this whole going for two. AD drives me crazy. And I don't understand it. Riverboat Ron like I get tactical like I get it. You know if you're the Miami Dolphins offense but you know this game cost you may be cost you a playoff chance. It probably did it cost to any because you lost to an NFC opponent you know you had a chance there and you lost us to it. You're not gonNA win the south. Even Orleans lost the. You're not GonNa win the south so I just don't understand the. There's not a sense of a long lens with this at all and talk a bad loss in this game Kansas City the return of Patrick mahomes despoiled against the titans. Patrick mahomes threw for four forty six and three touchdowns the chiefs out in the titans. Five thirty two three seventy one and yet they lost the football game Joshua Kalou Block and law second and field goal attempt as they beat the chiefs thirty five to thirty two. Listen I know. Derrick Henry is a beast in a big game but honestly Mike. I can't tell myself the chiefs are real super contender. When you lose a game like this mahomes puts up numbers like that and you can't beat the titans? Look I mean Tennessee at the vault for twenty two minutes and nine seconds and they got three hundred seventy one yards art. There is a time. I'm watching the game that literally. It looked like the titans were a division one school. They were playing against some small school. Right they just blew the chiefs. He's off the ball. And Derrick Henry Comes Walton here for like nine yards. I mean they had the ball for twenty two minutes this titans explosive offense and they had three hundred and seventy one yards and they scored the most points. I mean they're scoring points all apologies to Arthur Smith. Like I've been ripping the titans for not being able to manufacture any points but all apologies to for them. I mean seriously. They've been since they went to Tannahill. This just shows you the indictment of Mariota. Since they went to Tannahill they look like a decent football team. Offensively and I thought they did a decent job. Defensively keep up way too many plays I mean the Guy Sensational. I mean. The guy's just incredible coming off the knee. I liked the titans in points on. GM street on Thursday. But I thought it would be a different kind of game than it ended up being but while what one ended and then how about blocking a kick. I mean my man Andy Reid. He can gain yards better than anybody but yet he can't ever finish out the game. Kenny he can never finish out the game he actually called a pass on that third down play and Mahomes took a sack on it. It was. It's crazy and to further the point of the titans the fact that there are now five and five in the AFC south rates. I mean there's two parts one. Hey they're still alive for Plash Papa to this is the real enemy Mike Badge if they'd bej Mariana sooner imagine if they'd Gone Data Hilton or they'd be a lot better football team and I completely agree with that like if they play this guy earlier earlier in the season they lose fourteen to seven buffalo and they get shut out by Denver here their scores when they have him right. They went forty three thirteen against Cleveland. He really didn't put up forty three three points. You didn't lose to Indianapolis scored seventeen lose to Jacksonville. Score seven come back and beat a bad Atlanta Team and scored twenty four right. Then they come back and have their two weeks where they get seven seven points. They lose the buffalo and they lose to Denver then they come back and now they start this kid and he scores twenty three against the chargers twenty-seven against happy scores Twenty Against Carolina Carolina. And then thirty five today. I mean seriously and I was told this summer that the coaches really wanted to play Tattoo but the front office was like so endeared with they had how to give this Mariota one more look. And Look. I'm not a big proponent of Tannehill but he showed toughness he showed a willingness to take a hit he's thrown at seventy one percent completion when he scavenged at eight point five yards per attempt. He's got one hundred and four quarterback he gives them life. They're actually believing in them. I mean they actually believe that he's a good player. It's way more. They have life they might. They're going to be forced to reckon with in the south they can move. The football was going to say we'll talk later about potential playoff teams. You're right the titans five and five now in a tight. AFC South rates. There are different team now. We six games left to go speak in a bizarro world in the NFL when you think about crazy winds this year JP Murrieta. My friend tweeted this thinking about the jet of the cowboys. The browns over the Ravens and how both the colts and the Dolphins Ryan Fitzpatrick scoring eleven yard on the first half off the dolphins defense making a late stop and the colts lose. Sixteen to Twelve Viteri missed another extra point now. Fourteen at twenty in that regard and the dolphins have won two straight their first win at Lucas Oil. Since two thousand thirteen I mean how much more it wasn't his fault. I mean who you're threw three picks and the one pick in the end zone wasn't on Hoyer. It was a great play by the defensive player by Miami. It was an unbelievable play. It was incredible and really Miami typical again they get in the third quarter. They score three points all year in the third quarter. They couldn't do anything they get. Two hundred twenty nine yards in the whole game right and the colts loose. I mean because the colts are one for five in the red zone one for five in the red zone. That's why cracks me up. All these teams practice out in the field all the time like if you just spent Wednesday Thursday and Friday practicing red zone. You'll be a better team just because you'll know the players that are coming you know and if you can hold teams to feel goals down there like they can. I mean it's pretty impressive That they won this game. All this bullshit you know. I was watching. We had this. I was is watching. ESPN one night. And they had Steve Young up there. They had riddick and they had Adam. Schefter on the set and Riddick Steve Young just ripping the dolphins before they play Pittsburgh for how in hint humane. It is to their players and they're gonNA lose. Players are going to get hurt Yada Yada Yada and I'm like what is going on like seriously like are they watching the last three games. James I was just saying today I mean Miami could have easily beaten Washington. They had buffalo on the ropes and now they've won two in a row. Yeah this is not a team. That's tanking right now right. You're trying to win right. They're trying to win. They're no good. I mean let's be honest. There are no good right. There are terrible they almost get screwed. How about this? So they in this game. Fitzpatrick takes takes a real hard hit and so he goes off the field and then when he comes back for the next drive the official makes them go for concussion protocol. Yeah he writes sense to you song. I'm coming up no no. I'm fine Lee alone. And they had to put Josh Rosen. You know he's not. It's not fair to Josh Rosen. What they're doing? Just remember that. It's not fair it's not you know he's a good player. It's not affair. So meanwhile they got. They ended up having to make another long field goal. I mean the field goal kickers that the MVP of the game but look I mean the culture on the third string quarterback. I thought they would play much much better with hoyer today. I thought they'd throw the ball but they have no speed on offense. They have no juice on offense. They can't separate from anybody. Miami was glued to him the whole game. They really couldn't make a play. Hoyer picked off three times. Miami scores. Thirteen points off those turnovers. It just shows what the coal tar that Joe Jacobi percent just a different football team. They really are I. I mean they you know what happened with Kobe. He doesn't turn the ball. He doesn't make a lot of place but he doesn't turn the ball over and Julia turn the ball over right and those turnovers just kill them. Thirteen points. Mammy amy scores off those turnovers speaking of upsets from this week. This is one of the craziest results. The Falcons stunned the saints on the road. New Orleans couldn't even get a touchdown Mike. I I discussed that match up. After this this year set set bigger goals feel more accomplished with the Peleton Trent. And let me tell you something. This peleton threat is remarkable. I cleaned the garage out. I put it in my garage. It's sensational title. You can walk the streets of Venice. You could run through downtown Chicago. It's just not another treadmill as the New York Times says Peleton tread is like having a personal final trainer. Come into your house or my case the garage. Wherever you like runner's world a gorgeous and Hip New York City Jim in the comfort of your own home and go to training tool it's shock-absorbing slat belt and responsive speed inclined knobs weightless running up your pace elevation without breaking stride? It's remarkable it's easy. Thirty two inch. HD touchscreens powerful built in sound bar most immersive captivating workout experience. Don't miss a beat and a workout. That feels larger larger than life. That's right Mike. You can unleash your inner competitor live performance metrics speed incline mileage. You can push yourself even further with a real time encouragement from instructors and other members in the class. You see your progress in all one comprehensive place total output distance heart rate new. Name it. You're pushing yourself like never before you're because you're working up a sweat with rural classes structures. Were running walking stretching or lifting raped by your side Peleton is offering listeners. A limited time offer go to one PELETON DOT COM use the code. GM Shuffle to get a hundred bucks off accessories with the purchase of a hundred bucks free off accessories just could have won Peleton dot dot com. GM Shuffle speaking results as you were not expecting. I mean listen on any given Sunday anything can happen. I get that. But the Falcons defense with an inspired effort. They sacked your breeze. Six Times. New Orleans didn't score single touchdown and maybe there's something about division match ups here. Mike Atlantic gets up for a game against Orleans. A snap the Saints Six Game Winning Streak Matt Ryan Twenty Thirty Five I for one eight one two and a couple of touchdowns for the saints finished with just three hundred ten yards. It's well below. The average of three seventy five is really just divisional matches because Atlanta certainly looked. Inspired up there Dan. Quinn was fired up on decent. Today I was talking about. Hey I would take the falcons in the thirteen and a half. Because I thought the Falcons would back door cover right. I never thought the Falcons would be able to hold the saints for Three for twelve third out and over three on fourth down. I mean think about that. That's remarkable right. I mean this Falcon Defense can't get any pressure. On the quarterback they had sixteen passes broken up the entire year. They can't even get their hands on the football. And yet they turn this thing around and they just stoned it and I think the hard party people think when you have a by people think that you know it gives you chance your team regroups. I think you lose your focus a little bit as a team and I think that the saints went away on their Bhai because you have to give the players four days off. They kind of read their press clippings they thought everything was okay. They're coming to play a SHITTY team like Atlanta. You know and it's not going to be that hard and we'll just we'll turn Alon whenever we need to and they got themselves caught and like you said in a divisional game these things really matter. I mean I don't think people from the northeast understand the rivalry between LEAN ATLANTA NEW ORLEANS. It goes back to when they were in the old. NFC West remember when when when the NFC west was Atlanta New Orleans San Francisco and the rams how that was the West. I I have no idea but those are the four teams right. This is years ago right this when I first started league Atlanta was in the West. This is Chris Chandler days. What era it was way back? Get Chandler Steve Barkovsky. They played the West. I mean they played San Francisco twice a year. This is a real rivalry but that game is like a college game. There's a lot of because because the cities are so close to one another and it's such a southern thing it's a rivalry game and I think obviously Atlanta played up and I mean Dan Quinn. Take your hat off to him. I mean his defense. Finally Allie showed up and played a decent game. The Sean Payton said last week if you go back to the history of its matchup regardless of records it's always been a one possession game or a score game overtime or field goal game and I'm expecting the same thing this weekend. So he was not surprised as by this result and I wouldn't be concerned about the saints. Either Mike. I'm with you. I just think he'd come off a bye. Hi It's division game you lose. It doesn't give me pause and sincerely about New Orleans. They just got beat. They got beat badly New England. I think this is the best thing that happens to him. Because Sean will be on a tangent. He'll go completely lately beserk. I mean there's so much I feel bad for who they play next week. I mean I don't know who they have. I don't have the top of my head but next week. They gotta play somebody and it's GonNa it's GonNa be a challenging game for them because they're gonNA come in and I think they're obviously you know they're going to be ready to play that game and they've got to play at a higher level. They play the Tampa Bay bucks down to Tampa. And that's another one of those that that always give the saints a lot of trouble going into Tampa Bay. Now I think this week Sean. Scott their teams full attention and he'll be able to get them. But you gotta take your head off to Atlanta Atlanta. They fought the whole game. They fought in there and they did a great job. Sean Payton is going to be like Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glen. Ross the good news is you're fired right. You got your attention now. Yeah if four remember therapies surprises your prize is. You're fired second price. Steak knives holds up the steak steak. Ah I drove here in BMW. You drove here in Honda. I one of the great scenes of anybody. WHO's listening to this podcast? You should go to youtube and just YouTube glengarry Ross Alec Baldwin I mean there's some incredible Allen Arkansas Senate Jack Lanza put that coffee down coffee's for closers it's the best. ABC always been closing always be closing. And unfortunately the saints weren't closing. They were always not closing during at speaking at closing. Here's one I'm shocked by just how good they're playing as a team. I say by the result because I think you and I both the rams are kind of up and down but the fact that the steelers others are on our run. They've won four games in a row. They forced four turnovers. What's kind of an America Fitzpatrick back? He's had a huge play. This time a forty three or fumble return for a touchdown they win ugly seventeen twelve as they beat the rams now by the way good luck to L. A.. Trying to chase down Seattle San Fran. NFC West Gotha. Just twenty to forty forty two forty three yards zero zero completions at Cooper Cup as the rams went one of fourteen third dance. You mentioned New Orleans. third-down have a one of fourteen a third down for the rams as steelers. Come up big. How would you like to be flying home tonight on that airplane for the Rams and no one you just gave Jared Goff one hundred eighty millions? And you can't block anybody with your Offensive Front your best player Andrew Whitworth. I just got his ass kicked in the game. I mean I I mean look. I thought the steelers should've lottery protected. Amaker Fitzpatrick Patrick. I thought it was not going to be worked out. The guy's a ball Hawk for some reason I mean it's just whether it's it's serendipitous or whatever it is but the ball just seems to come around the kid I mean in some of the place he made and look. I don't give a crap with anybody tells me if you think golf is GonNa win you a super bowl. You better think really long time because at shit ain't ain't going to happen and that offensive line is bad bad bad and all the magic around Sean. mcvay is coming out because he can't hot. Everybody knows what's going on. They all know and without Brandin cooks cooks in the game. There's no threat to go down the field. There's no threat that you're worried about. Who's going to make a big time play on you and that's the real issue? I think they can't block upfront. And they're stuck in the salary cap. They got so many top heavy players Blake bortles made an appearance by the way did I. Did you know that. Yeah exactly shocking. So good but this a bigger your issue here you go into Pittsburgh four point favorite. Everybody you know. We talked about this week. The line was almost trapped into thinking. You should go there today when when I did almost eighty five percent of the money on the rams so the reason why they bill those towers like the Borgata Hotel and the sands it is because of this it is unbelievable. It's I mean it's unbelievable right and I would drive me crazy. I watched Pittsburgh and I'm like how are they winning winning. I think. Mason Rudolph is atrocious. I don't even think he's good. I think we make excuses for him. Like I don't even think he's very good and yet he ends up twenty to thirty thirty eight for two forty two. You know I mean James. Washington is six ninety. I mean James Washington and he fumbled one play. I mean they were getting ready to go in and score again. Is it coaching Eh. Mike Tomlin is Mike Tomlin takes a lot of shit you know. I think he's one of the great press conference guys of all time. I think he's one of the great motivators I mean. He's pay per view at at a press conference. I mean he's got some of the best lines of all time he's going to be one of the greatest podcasters ever right. I mean he's unbelievable but you gotta give the Guy Credit. I mean what he's doing. He's winning with his defense. He felt like Fitzpatrick was missing. Link he had a half he got that in the back end. They're playing zone the rush upfront. They don't even have Stefan Trud and their defensive front what they're attacking people with their front. I mean to beat the rams like this. It's unbelievable it's really unbelievable. I mean if you're the rams you're going home tonight say wait a minute. We got a hundred and eighty whatever we paid this guy and we lost and by the way that trade for Jalen Ramsey looks even worse right. Because you put all your chips the table you said you were a super bowl. Contender is white. You're not wearing the division this year. You've looked to cookies. Your you went all in. You think you've got a great hand and you're looking at the cookies and I know you don't have a hand brutal and now speaking of Delusional we present the core of the week courtesy of Ryan Pace who still starting his car. one leg out the car door Chicago bears. GMO Mitch Trubisky via WB B. B. M. newsradio other young quarterbacks around the League are going through at the same thing honesty. We're proud of the way Mitch is handling it. You see it within games right now you sought in Philly. It was really a tale of two halves. The Bears Detroit Twenty to thirteen and ryan pace feels vindicated to quote frank. Pantano Frankie five eight lies lies lies lies lies lies lies. They're all is sure. I mean seriously I mean this is delusional. If you're a bears fan don't you feel like completely depressed when you read when you read this. Yes I think so. First of all today I mean if they're playing anybody else other than Jeff Driscoll and look let me tell you something. They got their asses luckier and shit to win this game. I mean gene drifts throwing the ball in the end zone to send the game in overtime. I mean they got a chance to win this game. I mean trubisky throws twenty three times for a buck seventy three sack five times and and I look I called. I said he was going to have a good game against them. Got Three touchdown passes no interceptions. Basically Eighty one yards rushing one hundred and seventy three passing and they barely could. They were horrendous on third down. They can't throw the ball down the field right. They were to for twelve on third down and they won the game and paces actually thinking he's doing good. This is Matthew Stafford plays his game. I mean the way the bears the bears defense couldn't put any pressure on the passer. I mean it was really bad. I watched this whole game. They had a hard time. Really putting pressure on Driscoll Driscoll moved around a little bit. He got sacked twice in the game but for the most part I mean you know they really didn't and on the two minute drive. They had a chance going down the field. He couldn't do it. It was unbelievable like at some point when this pace honest like your what do you watch. What young player? There is doing what trubisky's doing like nobody has a lower rating than he has like. Tell me what young quarterbacks do are the ones who aren't playing. Yeah it's literally the you know when you. I know you've made a mistake. But you have that one opportunity you feel like you can boast a little bit. That's pace is doing eight played golf today. Even though as you point out Detroit secondary so porous. They did not have their starting quarterback there this this was a victory that was gift wrapped you. It's almost should be like half a win. Rather than a full win for trubisky. Yeah no I'm exactly. It was one of those. If you don't take this one you're never going to get one and I think this there's this thing and I'm going to write about it on the daily coach this week. I think people don't really understand that at all. It's called the domino effect. And what it means this is the domino effect is simply since I own it. It's worth way more to me than it is to anybody else okay. So it's next step depth of confirmation bias so since I've owned it right like if I have a car and it's my car I'm not trading it in because I own it it's like it's an endowment effect. I have and this is what he's doing. It's the next step after confirmation bias. Okay I own it so therefore it's gotTa be good and he won't admit it and Ted Phillips if you're the president of the team you gotTa we do something and step in this guy's delusional you might want to call a couple of people in Vienna and say hey. I think we ought to come over here. Talk to this kid. He's not watching the same thing. We're watching. He's completely delusional. I mean he's New York giant delusional. This is where you get to New York giant Delusional speaking of Battle New York today. How jets stooges horrible? All teams existed. Tough I think you know. The giants have sunk to levels that. I truly think the giants have gotten to the same point that that Jed York got to in San Francisco when it got that bad out there for him and he said you know what I can't do this anymore. I can't try to mask it. I'M GONNA have to change completely and get back to get let somebody come in here. Somebody new somebody come in here and help me run this because this shit ain't GonNa work. Here's what happens for anybody. Listen to this. Here's what happens when you lie to yourself when you lie that you think Eli is good for two years and you convince yourself you can build your team around. You're lying to yourself. So there are two two years behind in their whole rebuilding program. It started with Eli and now you know they draft Barkley the second pick us. He's the greatest player in the history of the football because he went to Penn state right and Barclays the dynamic running back. I think he had one yard today. I think he had one yard. Total thirteen carries for one yard today against the New York jets right and the play. The cost of the game was that I've been saying in this for a forever. Now the kid cannot pass protect. And what happens is when you can't pass protect the defensive coordinators in the NFL see. He's in the game. We're BLITZEN HIS ASS it isn't he's in the game were scared he's going to catch a pass. He's in the game we're blitzing. Only good things can happen when we bless him if we blitz them and it's a run we run right into the blitz. It's if we blitzer minutes past. He can't block any of us so he doesn't block them all atoms Jamal Adams just tosses them around bitch slap some steals the ball from from Danny dimes and runs into the end zone. I mean seriously. That's exactly what happens. And once that shit goes on tape see. This happened three weeks ago against the lions him almost got Dante dimes killed and all of a sudden. It's on tape now. You can't dispute it. People were like well. He's not a completely healthy. No no it has nothing to do with your health and has everything to do with. He can't pass protect Kenny. Dig It better. Maybe he can but right now. They can't put him out there because they know when they put him on the field. People know what's Iran or screen because Nobo- The quarterback doesn't want him. If he was on that field with Brady Brady would have done saquon. You want. You can go back off site now. What about snap in this ball with you out here if I go throw a pass seriously? I'm not gonNA stop the ball with you out here. Murky myself killed. Yeah I remember told me that way back I I think in April you really. That's the key when it comes running back. Can you passionate. If you can't pass protect I don't give a damn how well you can run. You gotta be able to protect the quarter. We're going to talk more about the giants. As is we give the weekly awards and coming up next. Mike was Twenty three twelve and one against the spread going into the week. How's he doing now? We'll tell you that plus the awards next as most of us have found out the hard way getting into debt is easy getting out. The debt is hard. Especially if your credit score isn't great thankfully now there's upstart dot com the revolutionary lending platform. 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Free yourself from the burden of high interest credit card debt by consolidating everything into two one monthly payment with upstart see why upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot and hurry to upstart dot com slash. Shuffle the fun. At how low your upstart rate is checking. Your rate only takes a few minutes at won't affect your credit that's upstart dot com slash. Shuffle all right Mike. You're twenty three twelve and one going into the week how we look and right now what we're doing now. Thank you very much Mitchell Trubisky almost on your bandwagon this week. God bless you look tremendous with one hundred seventy five sat game. You came through for me and then of course the Tennessee Titans. I'm proud of that one. I thought that was a good pick. I thought those two. I'm right now. The cowboys are up by a point with about seven minutes to go in the in the game. I'm a little worried about this one and I got Seattle next week so I'm twenty five twelve and one not counting this game right now so things are moving along pretty good. We're doing good. I mean I think the power ratings have been the best thing that I've done and I'm thinking fine tuning them when I go through my power rankings and I did it this week I would have lost the buck game by a point and I I had Chicago Green Bay I had Baltimore plus thirteen. Th the line should have moved up there and probably that's the only one Tampa Bay's you only one. I really did have because I had the jets going uh-huh and so the power ratings are doing a pretty good job for you because I think it's important that you don't pick games you eliminate games like I don't WanNa bet that game like everybody wanted to bet the Rams Pittsburgh Bert Wright. Everybody wanted to bet that game when it really wasn't a game to bet that was. That was a trap game and you fall on those traps. Same thing Tennessee. Tennessee only had twenty three percent of the money was on them going into today. That's never game. You WanNa bet you don't WanNa be on the public side of bet. She want to be on the sharp side of bits and speaking of elimination. We discussed this in the past. Ask teams have eliminated themselves in the playoffs already so obviously the ballot New York giants and jets there. Obviously there even though Sam Donaldson after the jets are still alive for the plants. Okay Okay God bless him. Bears chargers Tennessee Miami Denver Washington Atlanta Cincinnati God. They looked awful against the ravens. I mean what do you do. Let's just take a second and breathe. I nobody cares about the bengals but I like how does that Taylor keep his job. Like eight Zach L.. Get A job and be how Zach Tele keep his job. Oh like Lamar was just Lamar today. Look like Lamar Louisville. I mean it was sensational. He looked like I mean. I've Seen Every Louisville game that he played because my son was there so I mean I've seen this movie before against Virginia. I've seen it against other people Boston. College people can't tackle them in the open field and he's a better thrower than people give him credit for especially on throws at. I mean what he's done for Baltimore's beyond belief I mean what he's done is remarkable. Yeah that one's been movie at today as every kid in the play going through the MVP conversation now. Arizona Tampa Bay Carolina browns and Detroit. I was going to say we. We should put Carolina back in the playoff mix the fact they lost the packers at the tough loss. Yeah I think that is and I and I think the other thing is I do think that even though the browns I think they got Pittsburgh this week so they could get back. I just to me. I didn't see the the browns. That was an ugly ugly win for them. Yeah not not confidence-inspiring enough to still have on the outside looking in which gets us to suppose teams are out. Here's who is making the playoffs. Let's do the AFC. I so New England Baltimore's you mentioned Lamar Jackson Sensational today. KC See. I'm a little skittish for hers. Proclaiming them being able to be. AFC Look I think what we learned today. Is Casey getting a home game now. MAHOMES GONNA have to do it on the road and he might be able to do it but that defense is terrible. I mean let's just be real honest here. That defense is just terrible. Yeah the team can go all the way right. We've seen that. Now they're finding on Wasser exciting saying but this is like a ten and six and they could go out in the first round I mean they just don't they can't ever get control the game. They never can feel like they're going to be able to stop anybody and even at home. I mean wh the WH- When you watch this game the way they got blown off the ball by the Tennessee offensive line is just. It's just it's hard to watch. And when you give up three hundred seventy yards and twenty two minutes. Wjr You Got Issues New England Baltimore Casey Houston all have. Is My division champions that means buffalo despite the bad loss the browns. And how about this. You GotTa pick one of this muck one of these three five and four teams Pittsburgh. Oakland Indianapolis I will go with the colts but I do so quick to change my mind a week from Um now things changed. How about for you Mike Reluctantly? Yeah well I mean Oakland. Oakland Has Cincinnati next week and I think they play Cincinnati at home. And there's another win for them. I'm GonNa go Pittsburgh just just because I can't believe it I can't believe Pittsburgh's defense is playing a level that's really challenging and they're going to beat up on a bad brown's offensive line now. I don't know how they score points. I really don't I have no idea how they score any points but I mean for some reason they've been able to win these coming to had no business beaten Indianapolis they should not have beaten the rams. I think the the question with the rams are D- Are they really. We think the rams the rams of old but they're really not the rams aren't as good as we think they are. Yeah the death. I think more pretender than contender as we. We go the NFC. I'm going to go. Listen the no brainer San Francisco. Green Bay big win today at home New Orleans despite the loss. I'm going to go with the eagles at five and four. Although as you mentioned earlier we're tape and right now the cowboys they might win this game. It's crazy and then the wildcard Seattle Minnesota that means Mike for me. I've Got Dallas. La and Carolina all missing the playoffs three teams if he asked me a few weeks ago. More people thought they were likely to make the playoffs. Look Dallas just gave up another touchdown I mean the the Vikings are running through the Dallas cowboys like their Texas Tech. Didn't like the Dallas. They're like I mean they're playing defense whatsoever tonight. They're getting their asses Hammerton. It's GONNA I. I think the Eagles Win the east. I really do the way the cowboys are giving up yards the left. And right it's GonNa take a Miracle Dak Prescott to get them back. I don't think the rams make it either. I don't I don't think the rams make it. I think the Vikings will make it over the rams. I I don't think the rams will make it. It's crazy to think about all right. Let's get to some awards here. I want to go further the point. You're making it about the giants you're putting them on the Lam. Look I think the giants I I think if you're John Mara you really have to have a conversation with yourself eating. You know the last five years you've only you ranked twenty six league in wins. You've had one winning season the last five years right right you. You should go in an office with a white board and just start writing shit down on the whiteboard. Why why is this happening? You've run out of excuses. It's not the players around. Not Good. He can still play like you just lost to a team in New York that basically got the shit kicked out of them for an entire week right you you just you just lost to a team like to me. This is a level you've sunk to that. I don't think you could have you ever thought you could get. This is back to Joe. Arctic level and Joe Pros Arctic Arctic was the quarterback when the giants lost the meadowlands the fumble in the meadowlands. You know I mean this is really bad. I if you John Mero and you're serious about wanting to build a winning team. I think you have to really evaluate your organization so you know what we might need to really re re boot. And that's what I said on Thursday. I think that he loves bill. belichick rightly so. Remember this New York football giants you. They've had some of the greatest coaches you know. We kid the direct skins for having. Sean McVeigh haven't Kyle Shanahan. But this New York giant team team had Tomlin's Lombardo had Vince Lombardi. You know it had Sean Payton Right. It had bill belichick. I mean it had some great coaches and they let them all go and I think they need to revisit it. Are they committed to go in another year with Pat Shurmur coaching the quarterback they committed to go in another year with this scheme. Are they committed. Go in another year or Dave gettleman running the draft now for them the fire gettleman it would be firing themselves because get them and comes in and they get them. It's going to be one of the guys with them. Gettleman Adam and didn't change anything. It's their program right so Chris Marriage. John's brother has a voice all the old time scouts have voices. They didn't change anything. And if you're John Maron you're running the team and this is corporate America. You GotTa really say to yourself. Hey I've got to make some changes. I've gotta fix this thing like Jed York fixed it back in San for Cisco I'm GonNa Fire S- I'm going to hire somebody. Give him complete control the organization. Let him build in the mall. I think he's got to make one phone call. I think he tried to try to hire Josh mcdaniels. Because is that saves as quarterback and it might save franchise until the giants are listening and paying attention. Because you're right. There's nothing worse than the self-delusion Fred Polar Maura war. Best Game Plan going into the week. How how put the Miami Dolphins on a win streak unbelievable right? They come off that big win the other night and they come back and they really do pin. I mean they they all they did was. They've avoided losing even though Fizi turn one over they avoided losing. That's so compelling in the NFL it's easy to say but not a lot of people. Do it like not a lot of people understand how to do it. Like how do you avoid losing you. Don't turn the ball over you when you have to punt you make your field goals. You don't give them any of those cheap plays and I think you gotta give him credit. I mean it was really a hell of a win. Yeah and I I was just GonNa Enter Jack Moore all this talk about tank for two it just a quick thought here. Lsu Alabama talk. What living up to the hype? That game was unbelievable. Forty six forty-one Lsu wins and Ed Ores. Ron Finally finally does it. Maybe Joe Borough that first quarterback taken. Oh I think there's no doubt jober was the best player on the field. Let's be real honest. He was the best player on the field. Look there's a lot of great players on the field feel but Joe Borough won that game because he was able to make plays with his feet make plays with his arm and make plays with his mind. He won that game there. And I think that he clearly signifies defy he's the first pick of the draft and I think the Bengals who have the first pick of the draft Ryan. Finley wasn't very very good. You know to get a kid from Ohio to play in your team. I think it's something to consider. I really think the Bengals have to reconsider where they are. They went after the Sean mcvay model. Maybe they WANNA reconsider that one go tigers KGB award. Team that DOC Duke. This week the New Orleans saints too no doubt right they got and Sean knew it too. I mean Sean predicted it right. Don't you hate it as a coach when you know. This is coming down the road and and you can't do anything to avoid it. You can't get your players full attention you can't get them and this is really comes back on the leadership of the team you know and it's not it just problematic. I mean this is what happens and you got to try to get your team to play at a higher level and you know it's coming. There's nothing you can do about it the way we win. Why did we lose? Pittsburgh wins thanks to turnovers was in. Casey loses stop. If you've heard this before for Andy Reid Game Management Yeah. I mean look every time you wonder when they're going to figure it out. I mean the field view goal that gets. Can you feel that gets an intentional grounding. I mean seriously it's crazy. It's crazy right. It's just insane and I mean you know the whole place selection with him and you know look. This happens before games. You know. It's one thing you gain all these yards. You know it's like the goal isn't a gain yards. The goal is to win the game and yet the chiefs are going to walk around here saying you know what. How did we lose? We should have never lost that game. We had all these yard. Well that's what that's what always happens. The chiefs keep saying. This is the best one the week. If you don't know now you know the rams offensive line just sucks. I mean let's face it they suck they put all this money into their you. You talk about delusional. They're delusional their offense of linus terrible. They got the shit kicked out of them today. Poor Jared Goff you WanNa talk about a guy took a beating and wound thing. We know about Golf Golf. Don't like getting hit now. Golf once you to count the five Mississippi. He don't want you to hit them now. He wants to be able to sit back there. Check their first and third and then go from there. He don't want you to hit him. I mean he don't want you to hit them. He wants he wants time to throw it and then get it down the field who's courageous. Who is desperate desperate or now the rams is at five and four and courageous the steelers also five and four but riding a four game win streak art these two teams in different directions right once? Desperate once courageous. I mean. Look the rams. Have the bears this this week. Now look you know. They don't play good against the bears because the bears ain't the bearish right. The bears aren't the but either are the rams right. These are two X.. Boxers that are on the second circuit trying to get back to Maine fight again and so I mean it's one of those things where the problems that the rams have. They can't fix because when they play against a good defensive front like the New Orleans or they play against a good defensive front like like Minnesota or like Philly when Phillies GonNa play outdoors and they can't play in the confines of their own home. It's going to be a problem. And lastly Monday night. A football is a beauty the seven to seahawks against the unbeaten eight. No San Francisco Forty niners. I can't wait for this football game either. Can I'm looking forward to it. I think it'd be great. I'm looking forward to see. What Russell Wilson does you know without George Keto? I worry about the forty niners. But they're defensive fronts really good I'll take. MVP and six points. Anytime I get it once again falls on Ceram at the. GM shuffle one of the niners or defenseman. They're averaging under twelve points per game so a great match up there to Wilson against that de we will talk more football all on Thursday when the GM shuffle returns Thursday. And you see this watch. This watch cost more than your car. Always because UH

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Colby Covington & Triple H's WWE Anniversary

Busted Open

54:11 min | 5 months ago

Colby Covington & Triple H's WWE Anniversary

"If you don't know Sirius. Xm THAN LISTEN UP Commercial Free Music Plus sports comedy talk and news. They have it all and right now you can get your first three months of Sirius. Xm outside the car for just one dollars go to SIRIUSXM DOT com slash busted to see offer details and to subscribe offer available to new series Xm streaming subscribers Sirius Xm no car required. This is the busted open podcast. You can listen to the full show Monday through Saturday from nine. Am to noon eastern on Sirius. Xm Channel One fifty six. Welcome to the busted open. Podcast this is Dave Greco on today's episode. It's a falls count anywhere. Friday back with the busted open Asian with the world's strongest man. Wwe Hall of Famer World Champion and not one not two three different sports by TAG team partner today. The one and only Mark Henry. Not only do we talk to the busted open nation. Boy also talk about triple. H is twenty fifth anniversary in the wwe. Going into smackdown. Tonight we talk about triple H in his career but how about this from the world of MMA creeping into the world the pro wrestling the one and only koby chaos COVINGTON joins us on the show? Today all right now. On the busted open podcast. This is the first time that you're going to be on the air since you've got to go back to the first week of March where we're live. Which means you get the cake. Phone calls with the busted open nation on a falls count. And let's go so let's get the phone lines going eight seven seven three four four four eight nine three eight seven seven fight ninety three if he can fight you can call because this is the first time the nation is going to be able to talk to mark Henry since the first Friday in the month of March that is about easy this pandemic is you feel like you're in groundhog day. Ground Bay. Yeah it's like one day leads into the other. You don't know this up you don't know what the date is. Everything's the same. And if I wasn't on the show I would notice Friday. I use wrestling as a barometer of where. I'M GONNA be on Monday. Okay as raw Wednesday aid W. in St Friday busted open and smack down and then Saturday my best friend Ryan McKenna. We get the hang out and talk about what happened in pro wrestling for the entire week. I'm McKenna I my weakest Russell Ryan McConnell right now is yelling at the radio because it's me on the air not him. He's writing love letters to mark. Forget ME NOTS. Do that while we have it. S why we got to be a romantic thing with a dude. Hey whatever floats your boat. Listen I don't but that's not what's going on here sir. Well you know I know that. Of course but maybe it's a little jealousy. Also no I'm GONNA props and Kudos to Ryan Makino. Who's back on Saturdays for a while? He was able to do it. And Kudos to Ryan McKenna on Saturdays as well because the guy lives out in Vegas. So he's doing a show very very early in the morning. So you know. I'm glad that Ryan Makino's back with you on Saturdays and I'm glad that here on a falls count anywhere Friday mark that we're back with the busted open nation be able to take phone calls because there's a lot to talk about because just like every other falls count anywhere Friday mark. Everything's on the table to talk about everything that happened. Throughout the week is laid out nicely for the nation to call in and talk to mark Henry. Well you know what there is to Dave. We're pro wrestling therapists. And all of the nation has been without treatment since the first Friday of March. So now we can assume duties as Therapists and tell everybody. Lay down on your couch and literally. Now you can just lay down on your couch because nobody's going to work at least central workers Belay down on the cavs guys. Grab your cell phone call in and be analyzed. I mean you know Paul in your call in talk to a hall of Famer like Mark. Henry ain't so bad it gets you in a good mood. I know talking you get into good mood every single Friday. So if you're home you're a nation member you're listening to the show. Pick up the phone call into the world's strongest man Mark Henry with any questions or comments about the week. That was how much this show means to you. Now that we're back being alive again as well and you know as we always say mark. We're in this fight together. It's not it's not a New York thing it's not a Texas thing it's a world thing right now so we're all in this fight together so let's be a team and let's enjoy a falls count anywhere. Friday take advantage of the situation and you mentioned smackdown before and I talked about a celebration tonight. On smackdown they're celebrating triple h twenty fifth anniversary with the. Wwe had his debut match in the WWE. April thirtieth of Nineteen ninety-five. Now here. We are roughly. I believe it was rock and Roll Book Buxom. Hove has not the greatest human being on the face ear rock and Roll Bucks. Some hope but You know that was his debut match. I believe was with the rock and roll man himself. He was a big star in the AWA not so much in the WWF. But I believe that was triple h his debut match in April Thirtieth Nineteen ninety-five. It's hard to wash. That off yet is it? I was a big Fan of the rock and roll man Buck books. Hope back in Awa days. Yeah I had to get the scoop on him in Not Not a good guy not not a good human being but a good wrestler and triple h is not just a good wrestler. Trip plates is a first ballot hall of Famer and then more even more so than that when it comes to triple h mark is the fact that he's more than just a wrestler to the. Wwe What he does as an executive as well a man of many hats and we talk about what he's done further wwe annex t and a lot of people under appreciate him as a wrestler sometimes as crazy as as it sounds. You know he's a he's a top twenty top fifteen wrestler in history of pro wrestling. I have been to me. It's Kinda just outside top ten but he's up there mar as one of the ball time. Jaka Barak show is your home for daily boxing coverage but also brings you the biggest names in pop culture and entertainment do see green tune in Sirius. Xm Fight Nation today at one PM Eastern for an eight list extravaganza featuring top comedians actors musicians and more. We got the opportunity right on the line. The Barack Ayla special airs only on Your Home For boxing coaching Siriusxm fight nation. Ten to one fifty six listen at home with Amazon Alexa however US streaming now's pro wrestling is is one of few businesses or industries where it doesn't matter how good you are if you don't have somebody else that's your equal. Then you're gonNA spin your wheels and I. I mentioned that we talked about triple h and his twenty twenty five years a celebration. I had a match with AAA age. You know when he was triple eight when he was hunter hearst Helmsley and he was pretty new and not new to wrestling but you know new at the wwe in that capacity. And I knew that he was kind of a practical joke. He is he's funny dude and likes to have fun but I was worried about him playing with me in the ring and when you're as talented as he is and I knew he was you. Can you can be made a fool of pretty easy if somebody wants to joke around and play ha and I told him as a hey man. I'm pretty serious about you. Know going out there and looking good like I don't WanNa play and he said Mart. I'm hardly of a serious about anything but when it comes to wrestling he's I don't play with my business and I said well shit. Let's go and we went out there and I think that I hadn't had a match. That was over ten minutes in a while because it was a lot of squashes and a lot of this and that and I had like a thirteen fourteen minute match with him and when I came to the back Jack Lanza was standing there and he said that's the way you work. You work like that from now on. And that was a byproduct of me working with somebody that was my equal or superior to me and it was able to get people to see me in a different light and say hey more. May you need to work like that. I I walk by Dwayne and Dwayne was like damn man like you need to work like that every night and I was like okay. So everybody's walking by telling me that I've been bullshitting all the time. He's taking the easy way out and triple brought out one of those moments where I got to shine and I appreciate him for that. And I'm I don't know if I've ever said nothing to him about it. Now's the time to do it. And I'm glad you shared that story and you mentioned about like bullshit but like I think in any any business any capacity but especially in the world of pro wrestling you D to be challenged by somebody. That's on a little bit of a different platform than you're at you know when you're when you're fighting equal people were under you. You're not going to really learn from it. You'RE NOT GONNA. You're not going to advance at all. So I I'm sure. Mark by being in the ring with triple h that was challenging for you and brought your game up to another level it did. And that's the way wrestling is is like two dancers. Great Dancers from around the world saves want from the United States and once from Spain and that person does not speak English and English Dancer or American dancer does not speak French but if they both tango and they both are excellent at it when they touch hands. It don't matter that they can't speak English they speak tango. And that's what pro wrestling is if coke if. Kobe comes in and he locked hands with somebody. And they're not on the same page then is. GonNa look like Shit and I hear the talk in talk. Sounds like the Bronco and I want him to dowd. Vibrato back and focus on the work before he gets to that and if he can do that then he'll be fine because watching him work. The guys athletic. He's toughest shit like I mean. He's a legit tough guy and he's confident in his abilities and when you're confident it makes up for a lot because you can you. Can You let your heart you? And I think that that he's He's all heart and I think that that's that's that's something that he needs. The pauline himself into let everybody see his heart. So let me ask you this market. We're GONNA have Kobe Covington on at eleven thirty and for those who don't know him. You know excellent. Mma fighter is Google in. Yeah what's that say Google and bitches? Hey who's more cannery? Go Glam Gogel and bitches. Well you can google or I could just tell you that bay for its interested in the world that A. Wwe Any talks a lot of shit. There's no doubt about it so so so mark if if colby was to like walk into a wwe right so here's Kobe Covington's got a reputation. Mma fighter legit tough guy talks a lot of trash like when he walks into a wwe locker room for the first time. What's what should he do when he walks into? That locker room acknowledged everybody. Hey Man thank y'all for have me you know and I like to get to know everybody introduce yourself. Hopefully the talent relations will open the floor. Form the speak. Everybody like if they had like a you know talent meeting and What what what I do. As far as the way I perform is my performance Don't think that I'm in here and I don't respect you as and I want to learn from you. Please teach me something new every day. If you feel like I need to know please by all means come to me with it. I would not look around like yeah. Yeah like you gotTa have a mentality that you WANNA learn. And if he can open the door for Higher Education in pro wrestling. You'll be fine and I think like all anybody wants to see from somebody from the outside and we talked about this a lot with Ron drowsy with the fans perception of Ronda Rousey and how a lot of wrestlers warmed up Toronto and understanding the business side. And how? Hey if I'm in a match Ronda. Rousey it's going to elevate me and it's going to elevate our match like having a main event at Wrestlemania five and then we also talked a lot about people who didn't understand the importance of Ronda Rousey and maybe that's a big reason why they weren't sooners. Yeah but you know what when it comes to somebody like him. I think I I would think from what you just said. Mark that you know if I'm a wrestler in the Locker Room I WANNA see that. He has respect for the business that this is a money. Grab for him that he has respect for the business energy said in his vibrato that you know. I'm not there to make friends. I'M NOT GONNA make money and that's great when you're trying to sell the fact that you WanNa fight somebody in Is about the dollars and sense because you know. It's always about the money but I wouldn't want that to be my first impression. And if it is then I would advise him to not think that way like hey man beat have more of an open mind big about more learning and coming in and not conforming to assist them but seeing where you fit in the system. If that makes sense to you know I I think 'cause think especially in the world that the wwe. It's it's a machine so you know all these pieces in the machine gotta be doing their jobs for the entire machine to run right. You can't just throw a wrench in there. I mean you kind of are I hate to say it. Put us a spoke in the wheel. You know now. Some people are bigger stars but at the same time it's it is a machine and a lot of people realize or maybe they don't realize that you know nobody's more important than that machine because if you leave and you go away that machine's. GonNa keep on running and I think history shows that mark that it's GonNa keep on running. Yeah I think that you know his at his age which is not a old guy. I mean we you know. Yeah you wrestle into your forties. So he's got a long time to go. His body looks like he's been carved out of Stone. I'm sure being as healthy as he is like That makes them even seem like a younger man. He's not afraid to mix it up and bad being said he's took some fights in MMA that a lot of people dodged a big fight. You know you wanna you WanNa you WANNA get the big fight for the big money but you know some guys. WanNa they WANNA build their records up with guys that don't matter. I could beat him. His record is a. Who's who of this guy was really good. And he kicked their ass. So he's a bona fide ass. Kicker and with fighting is only one guy one guy who has never lost? And that's floyd mayweather in boxing so everybody took laws Mohammed. Ali took a laws. Mike Tyson took a love and Kobe. Took a loss or two. But that does not define what he's GonNa be in pro wrestling. We all lose out hell. I Loss Brag Leslie. Kick my ass ain't no secret Sheldon Benjamin beat me wrestling and I mean like shoot wrestling like not pro wrestling. I used to call people out. I WanNa see if that karate shit works on me. That was my mentality when I was young and stupid and I got my asking. So anyway. I digress but he's coming into business where there's some guys that's willing to challenge him and he's going to have to say hey man my mma career story love it. But I'm not here for challenges and fights I can do that at MMA. I'm here to wrestle. He's GONNA get everybody respect that day because they're gonna see that wrestling plays a more important role at that moment than anything else this week on world a basketball. Australia's five time Olympian and Fiba Hall of Famer. Andrew Gaze shares his thoughts on a mellow ball as an MBA prospect. I think he's a phenomenal. Talent is good size. He's a really really good athlete but an MBA. He's GONNA lead. He can pass the ball. The thing that I think impressed me. The most is not necessarily everything on the floor because he's talented really who listens. He's respectful and he seems to the taint concepts. New Episodes of world of basketball are available every Thursday on Sirius. Xm APP and Pandora. So you know we have busted. Open Monday through Saturday on Sirius. Xm fire nation. We have the busted open. Podcast as well that you could subscribe to and I hope everyone subscribes because you get some exclusive content on the bus at open podcast. We have the video element on the Sirius. Xm APP. I don't know a lot of people know about this but you can go to Siriusxm APP and watch some of our video some of our interviews I do for those of Miss. My power rankings. I still do my power. Rankings every week on video on the Sirius. Xm APP. And you know I was thinking you and I mark since you know both. Our shirts are available at pro wrestling. Tease pro wrestling in search. Dave La Greco or search Mark Henry and by them. We have some new designs a starting next week. I was thinking maybe you and I do like. I don't know since we're home in everything. We do like a Youtube series. You and I do like some youtube stuff man. You know. I'm I'm looking at anything. Any content possible to get out to the busted open nation. A man mother Marissa okays it. Let's do it. I'm ready all right. Let's do we were always thinking and again. If if busted open Monday through Saturdays not enough you got the podcast you got Sirius. Xm APP on demand video. There's a lot of ways to watch busted open market in one of the things that we love about busted open is the busted open nation. Are you ready to get back to some more phone calls before we before we get to the nation we are doing a video right? We're doing dome REG VIDEO AAT. Should we tell everybody that we're going to do it? Cause once we said we have to do all right well I let me ask you this because this is important. Who's going to be in the? Don't rush video okay. You can have it without June. Gabby Gabby so you myself. Gabby Tommy Mother Marissa the fans. No mother listen I I. Yeah Yeah maybe we pulled dug out now. You wanted to go little old school get does get doug gotta knock the dust off. Maybe see I got idea for that. I just don't Wanna I don't Wanna say everything but about Ryan and McConnell now gotta gotTa have rand. I'm doing my impersonations review okay. Well Yeah we've bussing online anyway. I'm not I love Ryan. Great can I tell you? Why but Stan Ryan? It's because he's part of the family is part of the busing open like him. I didn't like them. I wouldn't bust as say nothing about him right now. He sits at the kitchen table at Thanksgiving. But he's still part of the family as long as you get Turkey and dressing you. Good Turkey and dressing is still. You're still at the table. It's just the kidney table listen. I won't cranberry drifted to not not the homemade Kellyanne. I want the shit that comes out of the Ken of beds molded like the CAN. I know that sounds weird. But that's what I like. Dave always got to take it back. Food listen whatever you want mark you get just come to League-record House for Thanksgiving and we'll make sure we'll give you some of that. Yeah yeah go go to your neighborhood grocery and get that sixty nine cents. If I don't know how much it 'cause I don't I don't always by the grows. I just cook them but if I if I have dressing I gotTa have that that cranberry compote mold. That comes out of the CAM. I WON'T BE THE CHEAP DRISS. Want homemade stuff all right so we're having Kobe Covington on at eleven thirty right now. I heard that his nickname is chaos. So my question is to gave him that nickname was did he give that nickname to himself or that? Saudi Arabia is chaos Colby Covington or is it Colby Chaos. Covington is it. Kobe vinton like Kobe. Covington chaos like I pay. Oss IS IN THE MIDDLE IS GOTTA. Be Kobe. Chaos COVINGTON fight. That's a fight way. These are questions that we need answer at eleven thirty eastern time. It's in the mail it's an it's definitely intimate you know that for sure definitely it's on the UFC homepage colby chaos Covington. So when they like when what's they guy. What's the the ring announcer for? What's his name? Jim- Bruce Bajaur Brisburg. So he goes so he goes colby chaos covering turn or the say they call this man chaos. He is your lightweight. Middleweight champion. Koby Covington comes on the show. I think you should introduce them like that. And see how how in the octagon right now. That's right he talks a lot of Shit. It's Colby Covington. Also known as chaos or is it I chaos Koby Covington Im- Efren if you said like that I don't want to miss on chaos toby an F. and then they just call in the octagon right now. It's Kobe Kobe Kobe. Oh find out. Eleven thirty to get back to the nation triple H. He's triple C. Colby chaos COVINGTON chaos with a K. Right now to the Triple C. O. Eill maybe I should introduce him as triple you know. It's the twenty fifth anniversary triploid right now. Live on the line triple say Dobie. Chaos Covington No no it didn't it didn't flow. Triple seen enough of those triple ages enough. Now you got Triple Gee. Why would we have a triple seeds? That over over also sounds like like you get you gave them a grade of a C. You know he's good but he's not great. Triple say chaos Colby Covington. And he's he's you know he's he's not bad he's all right and look. I defended you many occasions. I'm not the man I used to be when it come together. That FIFA living here. You'd know shape if I don't get him in the first men have he'll be standing over me. Oh Bet I'd just like you know the Bruce Coffer Guy. Say and his opponent. He's pretty good. Okay triple say can Calvi Chaos Covic Gentlemen and fans around the world here. We are standing for five rounds of fighting. Who Ladies Gentlemen? Put Your Hands Together for triple C. Colby Cao's coding house. That did I first of all your amazing second of all. Have you ever watched the cannonball run movies with Donde capping chaos coequal Captain Chaos Captain Chaos Cape Cape? Now that era captain chaos. Kobe Covington. He's GonNa kick your ass. I heard somebody talk this much about Kobe. Covington wow maybe when he was world champion maybe now listen. There's a reason why he's coming on the show today. I'M EXCITED TO HAVE KOBE. Covington on seriously I am digging the hole you know. Obviously it's it's nothing but success this formula of the fighter in pro wrestling. I think it's a perfect marriage. I really really do triples. Search on eleven thirty. I'm ready so ready to get to the nation. Yeah let's go to the nation. We'll see what they have to. Let's go out to David in Atlanta. What's going on David? Good morning guys. Y'All doing how are you buddy? I'm doing great. It's good to be a daybreak a guy but I gotta tell you. It's great to be a Mark Henry man mark in readmits off right Dave La- Grech guy and a Mark Henry Man all Megan. Just keep it in the vein of the twenty five year career. The triple H has had a w when I think triple H as much as he's accomplished in the first place. I go to evolution. That he had from two thousand to two thousand five. The rivalry was shawn. Michaels is in the middle of that. I think you had like three or four world championships. He was given the the you know. The big goal title from Eric. Bischoff that night on raw made history The last man standing match the hell on a cell match he had with with Shawn Michaels. I mean he's one of the greatest minds if not the greatest wrestling mind that's ever existed. He is the real assassin What would you guys hear? Hear the name triple h what. Moment or maybe. What visual do you guys mainly see in your mind when you hear his name? You know I gotta be honest with you right now. It's the man behind the next day. Like I. I you know and there is so much because you're right. There's there's there's evolution. There's there's the there's the game triple h there's hunter hearst him Helmsley. There is so many different characters in personality that come to mind when you think of triple h put right now because listen to me the best. Wwe Show of the week so right now when I think of triple H I think of the guy in the Su- that's who I'm thinking of when I think of triple h right now right now. I have to say the gas sitting on throne with the crown on with all the soldiers around him at Wrestlemainia. That's when when you say triple eight. That's just a visual image. That I get and him standing up and spit in the water in there. And that's another good point to mark because we talk about the Jews and the mind that triple h has and David thank you so much for the phone call but you know what those amazing wrestlemainia entrances the the entrance. He had wrestlemainia thirty. Th th the one that he had you know with staying you know these are the one with motorhead playing live as he was coming down the entrance ramp. I mean he's had some amazing amazing entrances. Man I'm telling you like He. He just missed. Triple H just misses my top ten of all time. It's hard have to kind of revisit that you know. But he's definitely without a doubt in my top fifteen when I think of some of the greatest wrestlers. I think he's in my top fifteen. Let's go out to Matt in Virginia. Matt what's going on Buddy? How you doing guys? What's Up Matt? Norman this topic has been like Claude. Miss you guys so much. Well Yeah my plan. Friday happy flimflam falls count anywhere Friday. Few good yeah. Let me ask you a question before we continue our phone call Matt. So what are you thinking? Kobe Covington is chaos. At the beginning the middle or the end I would say the middle. I'd be Colby. Chaos coverage in the middle right in the middle mody in the Midwest. All right go ahead and back I really enjoyed exceed asleep. The matches were good. The one thing I liked the most was that Johnny Gano Kenneth Ray thing. They did like it was like there in to the dock. So it was like. Wow it's gonna be it's GonNa be hard for me to like booth these guys. These guys were still such natural debuted including Kansas which shocked me the most that of now a matt. Thank you so much for the phone call. I appreciate it I the to me the best things about about Wednesday on T. Were the vignettes. Like you mentioned the Gargano Vignette Yoshahara Vignette. I thought was fantastic. I'm super excited about killer cross and scholar Bardo. They did a great job. Mark on Wednesday with those vignettes setting everything up and putting people in the spot where you actually give a damn best that emotional thing that we were talking about that. I didn't think that was enough for your home for all things come at sports is Sirius. Xm fire nation. Start Your Day with Hall of fame. Pro Wrestling talk on busted open. We spent these men and women that Buell the business then. The number keeps you up to date on all things boxing. Boxing is the fear of and geary. Thomas has you covered for mixed martial arts Joe. Rogan is the most important influence in all the fighting broken down like nowhere else only on Sirius. Xm Fight Nascimento one fifty six. Oh the relationship with m. a. m. pro wrestling a lot of talk about Ronda Rousey and we've been promo in all show long and joining us right now. Live on the line. That's right co-pay Kay Covington joins US right here. I'm busted open. Colby how are you this morning? I'm doing great boy. Thinks it's an honor to be on and pleasure. Thanks for having me on the world's fattest podcast busted open man. The world's bad as I love it I love it. What do you think about Dave's introduction? The way that he says Kobe Chaos Covington. It goes into Middle Right. Yeah it does go in the middle and you know the way he said it. It gave me goosebumps. You know it You know I it channels something inside me. You know that that something that you have mark in something that I really admire. You know that you set your mind is something to be the world's greatest athlete and you did that you know you're the world's strongest man and and you know they can never take away the accomplishment for from you so every time they say your name you know it's You know something you. You feel the goosebumps down your spine. Once was always is as we look at it. And here's the thing called because obviously we're getting you on because there's a lot of buzz talk about you possibly going into the world of the WWe but maybe a lot of fans don't know that you have dabbled in the world of pro wrestling with impact wrestling match. That you had So you know you you have done some pro wrestling in you know when you look at the world of anime in the world depressing. T- you is that a good relationship between the two sports I would say it's a really good relationship. And it's something that's there for the guys to us but you know the guys in them and they don't use it they don't use the the psychology that is in wwe and pro wrestling and and that they used it you know better their careers and get people more interested in more entertainment them. But I think people are afraid to go out of the box and that's why I was never afraid. I didn't care what people thought of me. And I wanted to broaden the box. I didn't want to be like everybody. I wanted to stand out and I wanted to be something different. So that's why I decided to go down this this this angle that you know this pro wrestling type of psychology building sites and sounds sights and You Know I. I learned that what I did my set of impact Bobby Lashley and just to see how those guys were since the Mr the entertainment that you know that made me bring that back over into anime. And it's not just it's fifty percent sport and and you know it's fifty percent pro wrestling and people in need us that advantage. If they WANNA make the most money possible you can entertain people then you get over and sometimes getting over is more important than the wins and losses and pro wrestling. You're able to get over and you know in the fight game. You GotTa Win. It's about. It's about winning and you've been a winner you know like your whole career. You've been a winner and now it's time to be able to get people to respect you and love you and be having an emotional tie to you and that emotional tie is involved revolves around what you just said psychology. What are you doing to make that person? Feel a certain kind of way other than excited in a pro fight. I'm all about excitement when they play music. And the guys walk into the ring and I'm getting butterflies for them. I know I know you're getting them. But in pro wrestling rather than getting the butterflies. You're giving them and Can you can you say how you feel about that? Yeah I I completely agree with that you know. I think that you know you got to create your own destiny and and in for wrestling you can kind of take your career into your own hands you know but you know you have to be able to commit some of these guys. They're scared to commit the character. And and that's why they're not getting over and people are able to identify with and because you know they don't believe in selves and they're not committed fully to it and how other people are. GonNa get behind that so you know. I've really been able to see from you know guys like you. Mark Henry you know. Stone Cold The Rock and John Cena and all these great wrestlers that have been able to really you know psychologically get into the fans minds and make them feel some type of way whether it's love or hate you know there's some line drawn and defames one side or the other and that's what some of these guys failed to do and and that's why the fans really just don't care and you know they're not relevant because you know they made the ten feel certain hydros emotion whether they hate him or love him. I think a lot of you type A personality. You're not shy. You will spoken and your outspoken allow. Some does a lot of fighters a lot of a lot of weightlifters and people that come from other sports. That have the of Iraq though. And when you if you're not personable and you're not and you don't have a problem being shy you can. You can come into the restaurant business. And and thrive. I think that you have those abilities. Already I just don't won't Yuda get confused. I don't want that other wrestlers to get confused. That what you're saying and doing is a party you but not all of you and You walk into a locker room and you embody the fact that you love pro wrestling. I think that you're GONNA be fine. Have you had any problems from anybody's wondering whether or not your respect the business not I think Early on guys. Kinda thought like that. You know Kobe you know. He's just he's a fighter. He doesn't respect the business. He doesn't respect the athletes in it. And you know that's the farthest thing away from true and I have the utmost respect for everything will wrestler and wwe wrestling and the way they put their body on the line. And you know you guys are true athletes and and and and people that want to say other things about it. They don't they never been in the rain man. I I was on the path I felt a guy kicking me in the face. You can't tell me that was safe. Because you know when I woke up with stars in that referendum to a big old at 'cause linebacker loose on Abe review and the impact finale. You can't tell me that was that that's as real as it gets. You know so you know. I don't know if people you know and the rest on real world really respect like you know how I'm going about my business and they don't really understand it but I think if we sat down minor things they would really understand my character and who I really am a person what I want to accomplish in business. You know Kobe. You said something interesting before when you said about the fight game that it's it's fifty percent but it's fifty percent pro wrestling. It's it's fifty percent of that being a showman and being entertaining in the world that we live in with ESPN and the highlights and everybody on their phones looking at the highlights. I think that to get noticed. You have to be a strong personality. I think now especially here in two thousand and twenty. It's got to be more than just what you can do. Inside that Octagon Yup. It's true it's true and and especially time like this where you know. The world is looking for entertainment people going through this pandemic that we're GonNa online now and in the hard times that we've had the de Vere what you know. People entertainment their lives and they want to be entertained. So you know. People need to athletes in general and pro wrestling and made me find a way to be able to entertain people. Because you know this is the perfect opportunity to to You know really take things in in your own hands and and get people excited and backing you you know. Don't don't just sit there and then give them not something to root for something Boobs you give them a reason. You'll get social media you know. Stir the pot of in a bit but but everybody was like so concerned with what other people think of them and they're not really concerned with career and trying to progress that they cared about making the next person next to them think they're Aku person or they're nice you know and but that's why I'm different. You don't have feelings and feelings businesses the money making business hey. Kobe what's the biggest difference between The the UFC fan and the pro wrestling fan. Biggest difference I would say that probably wrestling fan and respect the athletes a lot better than the fans. respect them. It just seems like the May fans are just looking for blood laws than you know. There's no appreciation fans. You know you really see them. Pro Wrestling offense really appreciate and get behind guys and support guys and you know you. Don't you? Don't see them saying names about high level world champion wrestlers. 'cause you ever imagine someone trying to say oh well clearly thought you know it's just not a word you can never put together a sentence. You know the guys. The world's strongest man could literally bear hug. You and kill you squeeze the life out of you so you know I just. I just think that the fans that they don't appreciate the athletes that much fans and I think the the fans in MMA value wins and losses over the human being. And what the and what goes into being a fighter. I've seen the horror stories about the fighting and I've seen the success stories and the common denominator between the two is in pro fighting when a fighter starts to get up in age or fighter loses a couple of fights then people start to go mountain the next guy but in pro wrestling. If you're a fan of the hurricane or are you a fan of drew McIntyre they use stay a fan of drew McIntyre. It doesn't matter how many losses they have like you. You have an emotional attachment to the people that you become fans and and and you can't help but love that in In pro wrestling market. Funny You bring up. The name drew McIntyre. You know you know he's a guy that's coming out there you know he. He's a big powerful guy. He reinvented himself. You know he'd be broth lesson. That's no joke. You know. Maybe Branca's overlooking him although that's kind of weird because you know you're McIntyre's seven foot tall but you know I'm going to the top of the mountain. I'm I'm trying to fight your McIntyre. You know that's what it used the best. I'm not looking to pick on someone smaller than me. And Hey guys let's be honest. W W you may not want this because the violence in his dangerous. Last time I checked people love David and violence. So let's give it to them because I trust myself to go over. W W wrestle but it sounds like drew McIntyre express yourself like he wants to fight own big. W W just want to say this. I commend you. Can do in a no sanction country. Maybe we do it and you pay. Maybe we do in Saudi Arabia. But I think there needs to be a fight to drew David versus Goliath. I think it's the perfect billy. I'm digging it I'm Bre. She signed me up. Listen that New Right. There is not only a great fighter and I say great. Fight him because he's been a world champion but the mentality of a wrestler is I can see the salesmanship being able to promote and market. A fight is just as important or match is just as important as having. Talla able to make people want to see it. Hell I wanna see that already much you. How was your career? Bigger they are the harder they fall. See how experienced much guys guys for a cup of coffee already calling out the world champion. Mark come on bad guys. Wwe champion the guy. That's coming in the air. And he's the champion already ridiculous. Set The standard. You gotta set the standard for yourself win lose draw a man is going to be a man you gotta live by your by your word and you gotta live by your balls Dave. And if that's the way he feels I want to go straight to the top then go straight to the top but win lose a drawl. There's GonNa be a return. There's always returned. There's never a one off so I'm now going by the the the starring Matt so to start a fight. I'm about a rematch. So where money is demanded and said he had to make friends. He's trying to make a living. He WanNa live palatial palaces. Drive fancy sports cars. Well down the sidewalk in Vegas with an entourage of pretty ladies of different. Most what do you call it. Ethnicities get it in Man. Have a ball to imitate. I WANNA live. I WanNa live vicariously three Mike you care and Geico hold on one second interview but Mike. You can't just walk in and call out the world champion like there's a ladder that you have to climb in order to get that opportunity just a walk in the door and demanded an opportunity like Kobe's doing right now on are you talking about. What are you talking about? Brogden brought Alaska's did it Rhonda. Did it come home? Every every fighter worth a grain of salt they get to come in and do a Ken. Shamrock IF YOU WANNA go back Dan Severn. Everybody got shot. Why Not Komo Dave? Don't put the facts out scope facts. It's called the it's called the word. The word is respect right. You Walk in You. Pay Your dues. You come here for a cup of coffee and you want to go up against the champion and your by the way Koby. It's calling this. This is where it's going to take place. So not as he demand in the match but Kobe chaos Covington saying. Oh yeah by the way. This is where we're GONNA Russell. Are you kidding me right? Now where he named Dot Kobe. Market Avenue argument right now so mark. You can't just call out the world champion. Tell Cow Dude that he knows there's money in Saudi Arabia. The Dude is trying to book it. Man I'll have a problem with that. Show me the money. That's that's what the movie the movie. Show me the money Jerry. Maguire j McGuire Jerry Maguire. Dammit show me the money I'm all about it and don't tell the guests to hold on a second we bring you. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA run off our guests. Come on Dave Cohen here now. I know why he got the name chaos because now he's got you and I fight it so he's causing chaos on my show. He's the Shit. That's Thurber stirring the pot. Mold Stern her in the pot. Jobe stirring the pot chaos. Covington talker chaos disturb in. It's not just a podcast. Colby Covington did you. Just throw your pin doing my pen. Don't throw your pan this is. I Bet your wife by Nice Pants. You just not a big. It's all right. We gotTA WE. GotTa Gabby is giving me we gotta get you back on. Colby because this isn't over yet we gotta have we gotta we can. Can we get you back on next? Friday? Let's do what we can do. Every Friday I come and talk truth and and let you guys know that there ain't a man living. That can the fear of God in me again Kobe now. He's Kobe saying I'm coming on every show. They happen next Friday Colby and it will see where we go Friday next. Friday Colby Chaos Covington back. Joe Thanks for listening catches mandate or Saturday. I'm busted open from nine. Am to noon eastern on Sirius. Xm Channel One fifty six. The busted open odd cast.

wrestling Mark Henry wwe Sirius Colby Covington Ta Dot Kobe C. Colby Covington Mma boxing Russell Ryan McConnell Matt COVINGTON Koby Covington Saudi Arabia Dave Xm SIRIUSXM Ryan McKenna
King Of The Ring '97

The Jim Ross Report

2:22:00 hr | 1 year ago

King Of The Ring '97

"Today's episode of grilling JR is brought to you by star cast on fi. And if you missed our cast on fire, what are you waiting for? You can watch like twenty stage shows with unlimited replays, all inglorious HD. And if you're wrestling fan like me, man, some of these panels are just hard to beat the here. Tony shivani chopping it up and cutting up with our Anderson is something that everybody should go out of their way to see. And I've heard multiple people say they've never seen sting as engaging as he was with Tony shivani. Plus, you've got to sit down with Tom Mckee imprint heart, who could forget the remembering Owen panel, lots of controversy about what Cody Rhodes and the bucks said and their panel. And so much more. Go check it out right now star cast on fight dot com. That's S. T. A. R. C. A S T. And of course, fight as f I t it star cast on fight dot com. And there's something for everybody. If you're an AC w fan, there's a task panel. There's a retrospective with rob van dam. Jerry Lynn, of course, we've got the aqua panel where. Magnum TA sits down with Tully Blanchard, and what might be the last live show with king, and JR. Go check it out right now. You'll be glad you did it star cast on fight dot com. Hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to grill JR with good old. Jim Rawls, Jim what's going on, man? How are you? Good, buddy. I could not be better to great week here in Oklahoma. My lady sooner softball team got eliminated by UCLA was all all about all in, by the way on the college role series. I, I will tell you that last week I know you're out of the country. It was a good thing because I was going to call you when March Sooners illuminated illuminate, they beat Alabama, but well I've got a good team. It was fun, just bullshitting. You I didn't I wasn't gonna call you. But it was, you know, my spend my able to send my with this Awa thing. Now I got my life back and I do things if people probably wouldn't suspect me doing and that was, including going to the women's college World Series, which I think's very underrated event. I enjoy the hell out of gotta tell you. I finally had a chance to sit down and watch the broadcast version of double, or nothing. And you own your shit that night I just want to tell you how much fun it was as a fan to hear you doing what you do best. And you can tell you enjoying yourself and almost I you came in with a chip on your shoulder. You're ready to prove some. Yeah. You know, he was not peers whisper around the business that will you know, he may have lost it. He may be amid passing by in, and even some in the some of the wrestling medial Excalibur should be doing the play by think Dave Meltzer missing this X collar should be doing the play by play. I don't want to help my role is going to be it, by the way covered a great job. He's really good. And he's going to be a big time star in that world. And and, and Alex marvez this all new deal for him. But the bottom line is that we're, he's smart guy, hard work, and did a lot of work behind the scenes, getting us ready note wise. Prep wise, but gosh, dang you work another net. And we had not had that, that we had no way to replicate. What we were going to do in Las Vegas. Beforehand. So I think we put we did put out the effort. I think just solid job for sure. And I know that we'll get better in time. And I think by the time we get to August in Chicago that we'll be we should be a lot better and, and all that. So I'm happy with I appreciate you. I'm glad you liked it. I just I can't understand, you know, people that what he's going away so long. This is the only thing I've ever done. How, how long how far weakened the lay still guys Celtel? Yes recipe, we live on Uranus during the week this do resting on the weekend. We don't know nothing about anything. So I, I had a good time and fish. I'm glad you liked it. Most folks seem to like it, but it's working for Audrius, and we'll get better. I enjoy working with my partners to tell you. I love three men booth. We'll be ally. I don't but that's the that's where we're signed to do. And that's what I'm doing. It's pretty simple, it on that deal. So that's a that's how it looks. But I'm glad you liked to Coney. Thank you. Well, I'm looking forward to talking about our topic today. It's king of the ring nineteen Ninety-seven and Jim, you watch this for the first time in a long time this week. What did you think I said outside yesterday and watched the entire show ipad while you're not in? I got into it, and I liked it. I remember so many nice memories of things that I had forgotten about, I had forgotten that, Vince McMahon. And I were the broadcasters on that show. And the king who was on our team are three men team, which is kinda accession the rule of the three minutes philosophy. I have was in the tournament. So he did not broadcast that night, which made him extremely happy. I do call that. The king was almost a euphoric. The fact that he's got to wrestle pay for you and not dentists out there for three hours of broadcast one. So it was an underway, rated show, I thought the allow the Austin Michael's robbery in that, you know, it was a little bit forgotten from that match. I they had Elba matched, by the way. And, you know, there was triple, h Paul avec got his opportunity to, to get on. Get noticed started. Getting push as it were after being punished where they'll that meant from the from the carton call we talked about before. So that was a big start for him. And, and I forgot how good gold. Was be honest with you. God, dang he's talented. Hell gimmicky did. And he in tears wife. It's time Marlena. That was a good booking. That was a good creative piece of business in my opinion. And it really worked well, I thought and good looking back at it. You kinda regained your appreciation for how good they, they weren't together is also another saga chapter amid Johnson. And that was always an interesting road to travel. So for Ruch this is to get into on this show. Yeah, this and there's a lot of back story, as you know, I look at these shows that we do. Conrad, of course, he's your ideas and I love him. I love you to call the place and that is the fact that these things are like there, we're talking about a show or an event but we are. But it's also about a big on samba cast surrounding that event, our show. We're talking about. So in this one's got a massive cast that we can talk about it dies, and it's almost like a time capsule. And I want everybody listening to the show. If you're digging what we're doing here on new format here on Jim's podcast grill, JR, Tele friend, you know, even though something may be titled king of the ring ninety seven it's really more of a snapshot of the summer of nineteen Ninety-seven and the WWF and all the news and notes because we're not just going to cover the show as if it happened in a vacuum. We're gonna talk about the things that got us there as well. Of course, king of the ring went down on June eighth. So like twenty two years ago from this weekend at the providence center, right there in Providence, Rhode Island. This is pretty crucial time for the WB f the interview is running roughshod over in WCW, and they are running away with the Monday night war. So we're trying to play catch up here on the WB F side of the fence. We're on the heels of wrestlemania thirteen where maybe the original plan will Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart. Sean pulled up lame in February lost his smile and chaos was created. So Brett wound up working with stone cold, Steve Austin, an all time classic one of the best matches in company history and even wrestling history. The main of in, of course, became the undertaker's repeat said vicious. And then we would transition into cold day in hell in may where we would I see Steve Austin, get his first world title, singles match on a pay per view, which he lost against the reigning world champion the undertaker as lots of backstage drama, going on, at this Brent heart, Sean Michael saga continues to evolve. And the Hart foundation is now going strong. No longer just a couple of guys. Now. It's a whole roster dudes Brian Filmon and it's Jim nine heart and it's Owen spreads bulldog and the nation of domination is really starting to take off. Kane is about to debut and just a few months. There's just a lot going on here. So let's sort of hit the reset button and talk about well something you were involved in contracts. Dustin Rhodes the gold character. Renews his contract here, and it's it's reported by killer that mankind. His contract is expected to expire later in the summer, and I wanted to talk a little bit about these two guys because at this point, neither one of them are necessarily main eventers, although they've both been positioned with top guys. Whether it was mankind and undertaker or goal dust, and undertaker mankind and Shawn Michaels. How critical were they? And how nervous were you that maybe this Dustin or Mick, Foley, escape and go to the other side, because we're in the middle of the Monday night, war Gaza jumping back and forth? Was there ever concerned that either one of these two guys would leave? Or did you feel like now they're feeder planet here? They've been down there. They've had enough. They're glad to be on the side, pretty whistle. Latter scenario that she just mentioned, you know, Mick, the WWF for mic was always home him growing up in a Long Island. You know, the great stories of hitchhiking to the garden, to watch Jimmy Snuka, come off the top of the cage, Don Morocco foot footage of that's been played, Ed nauseam. A cool story is true story. So I didn't think Mick had a issues. The thing weighed killer reported eroneous -ly that mixed contract was up in the summer. It was up. It was up eighteen months later. So we had a year and a half a mic. Normally I started talking to talents that we wanted to keep the were our priorities our priorities about a year Vance, so we but I never thought mic was going to leave. He, he was, you know, we were doing those, we do those vignettes with him. Those that sit down interview thing I did with him. And he loved that and he's seen a chance. He had a chance to work on top in the WWF. And that was a huge dream for him as far as gold was concerned, you nailed it. He's been down the WCW he'd been. There he'd been there a couple of different incarnations. You know, he had it where he worked for his dad, dusty was the Booker. That was a tough drill foreign though, quite frankly, challenging, so I didn't think either of those two cats are gonna leave us. But, you know, we started your due diligence communicate with them, make sure they're cool. And we did this, so and luckily, they both stuck around for many years after that, one of the things I've wanted to ask about was Leif Cassidy, and we know him his house now and we should mention here that abso just put a new book out and a highly recommended for everybody. It's an Amazon anywhere else you enjoy books. But I'll read it last week. It's tremendous I can't put it over enough. But my research found that he gave notice you guys in this era. But he was notified. Hey, you can't actually give notice you can only do that at the end of your third year. And you're at the end of your second year, and you guys wanted him to stay, but he's trying to negotiate, I guess, maybe to get out of this deal or, or physician himself differently. When did you realize that house was unhappy and why were you guys determined to hang onto him? Well, Alyssa, great hand and Alcan make everybody work with better because he was he was that on a mentally sound which is why a noun Lovie dubbed. We see the success there are beginning to garner. They're, they're earning their Louisville. One hundred dollars watch. He's a great teacher has really good instincts, and we felt like we were getting ready to go through a transition period where we, we, we had to get younger. We had changed, faces we had to change our lineup in guys like Algarve veterans of approving proven themselves, a smaller territories in the independent circuit was a was a keeper. And, you know, he was like I said, if his work in the ring had wouldn't he faded away, which is a long time to come 'cause he's still we still wrestles. That he would be a great teacher as he's thrown out to be so. But until he said he wanted to leave he didn't understand, you know, you can't he's hits committed for three years, and we're paying him for three years. And so we didn't have any desire to break precedent and say, okay, we're going to turn a guy loose a year early because he wants out because that would open the door for everybody to, to one out. And then, of course, a lot of that times, those issues Conrad or gosh, wanted to position sells for better money deal that, that may have been a may have been con- seasonably analysis reason, but he was he was he was very much valued. I here we are in the middle of the major league baseball season. Allah's like a very talented multi skill utility player and those guys are invaluable. Well, and the story is really, really awesome. I can't recommend. His book enough go out of your way to check it out. You can get it on Amazon, or candle or anywhere. Else's called self-help life lessons from the bizarre wrestling career of Al snow as far as wrestling books. Go. It's really, really good. And it's everywhere Barnes and noble target. And while you're picking up books, he's pickup slobber knocker to right Jim absolutely baby needs new shoes. I Allison me a Coffey's book in he not been French for long time. And I really proud of his effort in the book is it is not a typical wrestling book. It's a book about life, that everybody can relate to seriously and Conrad's route be spot on this deal. I got a copy of it about two or three months ago, I thought it was exceptional and glad als doing. Well, they're VW and, and nothing could nice. What he's he deserves. He works hard. Let's talk a little bit about the news and notes at the time weed killer report that the front office had made some cutbacks in late may firing longtime ring announcer Bill on a former AC w hype central host Lance right? Who I guess had been with you guys for a while a long time employee. In the art department in two other office workers. And also, the duties of George steel, and Jay strongbow were cut back with only one how show per night, they weren't needed as much, but have been kept on board either way. But I guess, now it's sort of not cutting Tom for the company, we're about to we're not too terribly far away from where Vince would sit down with and say, I can't afford your contract. So this is sort of the first time that it makes the newsletter that, hey, maybe maybe all's not well at the home front financially. Tell me about Bill done. It's a name that I'll admit I didn't immediately recognize it was a ring announcer. That was been there for a while. When I got there in nineteen Ninety-three Bill done, was always overshadowed by Howard Finkel in rightfully so a Bill. Nice guy did a good job. But the, the Lee seepage of information on these layoffs game was not major secret, internally, you know. A mini of took a big cut pay took a I think it was a thirty thousand dollars a year cut in pay in nine hundred eleven in the Iran, maybe before that. But somewhere in the mid nineties, I didn't try to quit that day to mirror because what someone recall time but Vince can't came in and said, we we're, we're, we're have issues cash low wise in I'm asking the wrestling people to take massive cuts cuts in pay. And I said, okay, what need what are you offering? What are you suggesting and he told me, and so, I think I think I got cut to, I think thirty grand, I believe, but nonetheless, that's when you go back. And do we do our research? We'll see that was the week that JJ Dillon. In a very upset mood, and rightfully so. JJ a lot of pressure on him from being a dad of especially child. You know, three three young children so JJ couldn't couldn't wouldn't work for him that, that, you couldn't have big cut, and taste. So he he quit abruptly. And, and our, our man Bruce, got to be the head of town releases there for a good while. And I was I was the senior VP of another wrestling administration, which I think this gave me that toddlers just thought I would get would keep me happy. I would've been happy to be BRUCE'S assistant. I didn't care. I was concerned about the payday one of the to see guys I knew the creative was going to be and I like the cash. So there's where we were but it was not a big issue. It was a bad issue of those guys and their families. But it was a secret that the company was hurting, and we had to make changes and that's why it was so important to get this some new stories established in new talents, established, including stone, stone-cold who has the unenviable. Task of breaking the news to strongbow and, and George Steele, because we'll get to do that doing it wouldn't wouldn't find. I was new Canada. Block had been there very long. This is ninety seven. I've been there for years and already been in and out a couple of times. And strongbow was one of business boyhood heroes. So he didn't he didn't. He didn't need to do quite frankly. It's my job in Georgia basically, the same. I don't think George how the relationship with dance that, that John strongbow did strongbow had a great report this. I remember strong polish call Vince Caesar. Caesar's bad move this week, who owe the rest are slow these Russia's low destroyed Brad news. This do it's inherent. You notice that I have. Yeah. Howard fake. God bless him zone in the middle of the weather is not feeling great. But he's run a anytime a death in the wrestling business could be could be an Australia to Australian underneath Indy guy. Tim. I got some bad news for you Howard. I said, of course you do Howard who died this time. Well. Have you ever heard of going to blink? No had heard well he passed away last night. Okay. Howard will assume flowers. So that's, that's the nature of the beast is crazy. It was that way nineteen seventy four got into it. They love to talk wrestlers are worse than women that what soap operas in the in the day announced sanding sounding a chauvinistic. But most soap operas Becker today, kids were meant for women, the female viewers look at the sponsors. And they these ladies took those shows very, very seriously. And I grew up in a household of them. I know this. So that was the wrestlers are worse. And so it was it was just a big layoff. I they look, we had to get more energy. We had to get more productivity from our coaches are produced the agents as they were called at time in a coach's they're all the same job, they helped talents put together matches give them direction coach up, motivate them, help them a to do good in not George and Jim Jordan, Jim Myers. Torch steel weren't doing that. They were getting older, and they were limited little bit limited what they could do or wanted to do so the only incumbent I think old time Asia that we kept was Jack Lanza. And so Jack was injected a real good job, alternate attitude era, and one of the things that chat on board was fact, he's a great communicator. Former schoolteacher had a good education. You communicate with me in the way that I needed to do. I anything happened off the record with stay off the record. I got another Asian report. That was not public that was just for me. If somebody was a little out of the way our messed up, Jack, always gave me the, the full story in sometimes on the phone because he didn't want to write it down, which I commend it. So that was how we worked that deal. And we had to get younger the coach, we had to get a fire that we had to start something. And luckily all of those things kind of fell into place with with those guys. One of the things I wanted to talk about was Scott putt. Ski I know that seems like it's on a left field but Marie search for this show. I saw that you guys or plugging the upcoming debut of Scott putts. He knew even show in footage of his father, Ivan putt ski and you make sure to call the footage really old and it's a clip of him. Beating up Roddy piper in your knowledge Roddy, piper by name you're doing this probably as a receipt because the prior week on nitro they showed a clip of RIC flair beating on Vader. Then we see scout putt ski get a win over Leif Cassidy for whatever reason it didn't work with Scott butts. He what was the hope and why did it work out? We'll Scott had a million dollar. Look, he had a great name. You know, there's just father choke, mid NAR sqi aka Ivan pet ski was star. They're big star midsouth. You know, I, I knew him from the back in the day. So he got over to go over big time and, you know, you hope to par lay on that second generation thing, and sometimes it works, sometimes it is not a guarantee being a second generation rescue doesn't guarantee you anything. But that I look in and something for the announcers talk about when you're on television. Scott was seemed like a decent kid. Good. Looking kid thought he was a nice athlete. It just didn't have the it factor. It just did not come natural for him. He could do. Things athletically, extremely well, but I'm not so sure he knew why he was doing them. Right. So that was kind of the deal. They're good. Look, if just all about it about Tan's he's a main event, but it was about more than that. And. It just his skill set. Just didn't fit that level. When I found in my research was on wrong way to this show, the road warriors would be PG thirteen and under two minutes. I should mention that PG thirteen where the two white nudes in the nation of domination, who would come out and hats and glasses and jackets and sort of wrap their way to the ring and their Staples in Memphis. It's ice. And Woolsey D And let me just read the recap PG thirteen crowded. I charge the ring and pummeled the warriors of punches. The warriors didn't sell it at all. And after taking a beating OFI escape their grasp and tagged in JC is actually hawk grabbed ice and then threw him into the ring and the nice and wolf e manage the double team Hawkin Powell job in, but he know sold it the warriors then gave their shoulder clothesline finisher to each of them and pin, both simultaneously, PG thirteen had asked for help from the you know, D, but got none and were abandoned after losing the match now Meltzer would write p. Thirteen is gone after the road warriors deal apparently the Goss, think it's Jerry Lawler, had him fired, because they're working opposition, all there in Tennessee. Although that's been denied internally. They were told there is a chance. They'll be brought back for the light heavyweight division, but that would likely be only for television purposes. If it happens at all. It would also say JCI have gotten a lot of heat in his short tenure there, chat me up, what happened with PG thirteen. And why was this the end for them only? The, the short answer to the story in the bottom line of it is, is that those kids were certainly not low talent. We would not have hired if we didn't think they didn't have talent. But they, they were not a good fit in the locker room for me. Cultural standpoint, meaning. They didn't know they were young and green and the both of them have been around, too young young young kids. And I think they felt that they paid all the dues need to pay. Now, that'd be wrong about that. But they just didn't fit well in the locker room they had hard time getting along with people. And maybe they were not as good as they thought they were but they started did not lack talent. They dislike maturity, and that's probably the biggest issue it did. They didn't have the maturity. One of the other things that happened on the same episode of raw mankind would bring pallbearer out onto the stage. And this is when Paul bears face is wrapped up in bandages because the undertaker had thrown fire at him the prior week and mankind telling undertaker he's going to give him one more chance. And this is when Paul bearer is threatening. It's a secret. I made while I was standing over the grave side of your mother and father comeback, or I'll hurt you at this point. Of course, we know the big payoff for this is going to be Kane at this point. Did you already have Cain mapped out and did you know it would be Lynn Jacobs? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We that, that, that role was titled, Glenn made four Glenn. I saw Glenn when I was doing some work in smoky mountain recipe for Jim corners a group. It was always a lot of fun in didn't make a lot of money there. But I sure as hell have a lot of fun doing it and traveling the smoking smoking. And roads once over several weeks to TV McGlynn was perfect that role you know, he was Yuna mama for for cornet big athletic. Intelligent guy courses mirror. Not county. Tennessee now and it's doing a great job is he, he was he was a keeper. He was brought him, I think, is about into TV of believe in either Augusta are making or something like that. If w taping and everybody loved him hit, polite, well-spoken intelligent, ended hurt that he was a six ten and three hundred pounds. So that role was his point. Are you guys like drawing sketches in the art department of what it will look like? Or do you already have all that mapped out? You're just letting the story line play because it shows a lot of patients here. No, we, we signed him, not knowing that, that would be his final final role, you know, because he did they did the, the crazy diesel thing, and he did, Dr yank them and so finally, you're looking around, and you scratching your head are, are you kidding me? We can't find something viable this big due to do. Dr Yankel going to draw any, this sometimes gimmicks are giving a talents. And they're, they're just their career killers. You, you can't get over this give it to the point of being a main event guys if he will say that there will be critics of hours or mine, or JR. You know, you can get anybody over. They can all draw on top of this done right. If it's done right. Okay. Good for you. Well, you should start your own company do everything. Right. You'll make a lot of money. It's not that easy. So finally, the Glenn, if you know, looking at Glen, Kane, and undertaker they were they're both almost identical in size. Maybe you know if you'll hear little bit, but essentially, you could be deg pass brothers. Hello. That's what we did. So that's how that worked. But the art department got on the I know there's a lot of work on the mask, being done because the space is allegedly burnt, and all that stuff is a good story. And I'm very privileged to say that I think Glenn had to mask left, and he gave me one of my restaurants. I still got it was pretty cool. I just cool. Yep. Let's talk about for Ruch. He's going to be a big player on this paper, your positioning him for a world title shot, and you sorta start to set the tone when he's in the ring being interviewed by Vince McMahon. And he's talking about how, you know, there's never been a black man to wear the WWF world tied. Title. And there's only been token intercontinental champions, like Ahmed Johnson, and even makes the comment events. He says something like you don't feel a black man is worthy of being champion of the WB f, but you do think a black man is worthy of washing your car, and he called the undertaker your white savior, and he says, we're, we are no longer sitting back and we're going to, you know, get what we want by any means necessary. So this militant stance and maybe tearing on controversy when you're talking about, well, there's never been a black champion, just token champions is that is that Vince Russo pushing for that is that Vince, McMahon pushing for that it does feel like a slippery slope creatively. It is it was a super slow it was edgy. It was TV fourteen material and in today's world, it would not be probably accepted, because of the racial overtones all the topic at that time in that era. Nineteen Ninety-seven a little bit different public. Climate. It was in the process of, of a fictional presentation. Of course, we all knew that for Rickles, Ron Simmons, four time all, and I said that on that broadcast he was a legit four time football, all American, Florida state. He was the first as a nose tackle. So. We could do that today's we all know but then it seemed to work and everybody was on the same page. You know, Ron had no issue saying it because frankly, the one of the great things mixed one things that makes heels, great Conrad, just when they tell you the truth, and you don't want to hear it. Right. And that's what he did. So. And then, of course, takers takers in Iran all those cats in, in a nation where ticker guys friends, you know, buddies whatever. So this phone, ABI edgier, so I don't know if it was a Rousseau flip. The switch ner came. It was a combined effort, but certainly it would not be fair to Rousseau to say that, that it that his creativity didn't contribute to that type of presentation. One of the other things I wanted to talk about on this show is rob van dam, while he's still working free CW has a match on the same episode of raw and it's against Jeff hardy. This is before we know the hardy, boys, he's Jeff's here, working as an independent as a as an underneath, as an enhancement worker, whatever you prefer. And Robin dam is positioning himself as like a trader for AC w who's now competing on Monday night, raw and Jerry Lawler is using this to advance his angle, which will ultimately pay off hardcore heaven with a match on CW pay per view against Tommy, dreamer where he's saying that this is extremely crappy wrestling, and the DC w can't compete with the talents of rob van dam. So he's done there. And now he's Mr. Monday night, tell us how this came to be because at the time this is pretty groundbreaking that you have another promotion featuring their talent on Monday night role. Oil it. It is the, the one of the things behind the scenes some people know, is that the WWF at the time was subsidizing, EC w in, and help them keep their doors open in we because that I, I know that the fact is not hearsay because it came out of my budget in town in the town relations side. So in our that was so reasons, you know, I think Vance actually like Paul. I certainly did. He was we knew he was bright minors there. We needed something somewhere down the road. He was an asset that we wanted to at least, you know, covet to some degree. But the thing is, is that we also knew that EC w has some really good talents, that in so many of them are northeastern guys. That they grew up with a W WWF background in DNA. So they would be a good fit for us because they would want to come to our company, we thought and they did. So there's a lot of reasons to do that enough. Keep the business alive and all kinds of right races. So that was kind of part of that deal. It wasn't like it was a screw job on Paul or anything. You know, it's all planned out, and, but I thought rob van dam, I still do I think he's one of the best performers we ever had. He can do things that there were so far ahead of their time he so innovative creative and unique and the thing, why people don't realize about Robin. You kind of talk about how tough is. This his movie he did not too long ago. It'll documentary was really good. He talked about his concussions, this going to work hard a lot and he was tougher than two dollar steak without doubt. So rob van dam was always high on my list of talents. And I'm glad that we got him. You know, was he, he had rob van dam had that, that ability that inherent ability, which is blessing in this business to connect with his audience it because he was being himself. Not unlike Steve Austin was big himself or Shawn Michaels, being himself or Bret Hart. Rob van dam was an enhanced version of raw raw van dam, and people could get that they were they didn't there being worked so he was a big time player. Jeff was so young about that time. I'm guessing Conradi. Jeff is a he might have been seventeen maybe eighteen. He had met both maybe fiddle their age and we all we used them. I brought them in a lot TV's. I, I liked their dabs of mail carrier single dad. I loved their story and the fact they've made their own wrestling year. They're big time, marks, just not me. Always had time for the heart, he still do, but Jeff was you could tell Jeff, it's going to be something special 'cause he to connected with the audience, any of that great face and the great body English in an athleticism. So, you know looking before it's right there. We had two guys in a rink, again, going back to that house. No story earlier about wanting to get guys could work with anybody. That guy's better for guy like Jeff hardy to get better. He needed to work with guys like als. No, for example, but even Ravi, D had a that was a nice night. And in rob got his win and people connected with mister Monday night and they stay connected for a long time. Stock about the Dustin Rhodes interview that aired here this era ninety seven is a little weird in that you guys are doing, like sit down interviews with different talent later in the summer, you're going to do this, with, Mick Foley. Of course, he'll be in characters mankind. But that's what I learn about, dude, love and all that. But here we're doing it with us than roads. And it's a pretty emotional interview, and he's talking about his relationship with his dad or he's saying in all those years, I looked up to you and you were bigger than life. I wanted to be just like you, and there's no one on the planet who can do gold us as well as I can. I hope you're proud of me and myself and my family, and I love you dad, but they weren't really talking at the time it had a real life falling out whose idea was it to. Hey, let's, let's put that on TV. I'm assuming as business idea of it. We started getting this more reality based television storylines, and that was a good one for all the right reasons. You know, does he's world famous hall of fame guy. And or by a great name density. And, you know, he was the father son, thing was not a work as real. So we were kind of got a fading toward that era presentation, which still worked still worked today, quite frankly, reality based must like again, we saw Cody and, and you saw the mashed eilly of Qodian in Dustin from. Double or nothing. And they had one Hella match. I thought you know, sure you enjoyed vizo school resting van. How can you not like that match right? So it was a good stuff in. But Vince that was Vince do anything it was on TV Vincent. They're created it our approved. It didn't nothing pass nothing. A what are we supposed to do that nothing? Not that never happened. At least in that area did not happen. So, but it was is this reality. And we're trying to figure out a desk, it was going to be a baby face or heel. I wanna put was always in this thing, whether we tried it or not. We can't I don't think we should ever tried to do something that would. You know, the homophobia the backlash of the negativity of him being a heel is not good. Why would you why do you dislike him because he Nady gay he may be bisexual, you know again, you know? Yes. No one broadcast. I didn't know what androgynous was. So I said, on TV probably right. But, you know, but so we didn't want to go with sexual route wholeheartedly, but it was always going to be there. It's one of those deals for you say that'd be like me, saying, well, here comes Ahmed Johnson, man, what an African American. He is. Kind of see that they are. He's not he's a black man. Okay. So things like that. Go without saying it's like saying Andrei, tall, okay. Good job. So. This is where we are on that deal, but a dozen had a story to tell in. He wanted to tell it, okay? View Conrad for him to, to make up some loss time and thankfully thankfully at the other day that all happen. When did you shoot that? Is that Sean Stanford is a shot on location? And how far out in advance, did you guys discuss what she would talk about was was there anything as you're going through that, where he's like, I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to talk about that. Or did you just take for a long time, and then just chop it up and po-? Yeah we, we can't we just talked in what we needed what we wanted in. So that way you don't eliminate nothing. You don't stop any creativity in the in the creative process, there's no bad ideas, obviously, some remotes much better than others. So you let the guy talk you hit your as an interview prepare to ask the questions and, you know, you know, the story so, but no, we didn't rehearse it wasn't rehearsed the best that you kind of go or what you're gonna talk about from, you know, we're gonna start here. I'm going to go to hear this. We're gonna we're gonna make these points in between. And then you do it naturally organically, as you can. And that's kind of what we do there with the detonator view, and it worked out. Well, it's interview. We finished this episode of raw with the heart foundation come into the ring Brett's gonna tell bulldog and will Owen impalement to return to the dressing room. And then he calls out the gutless little poser Shawn Michaels tells them to get us. Get his ass out here. It gets the promo here saying that if I really don't on me, the arrogance and attitude and cockiness is that is in new is what all these Americans represent. And you think you're better than everybody. Look down on us, and he compares America, the Roman empire, and he says it's going to fall because the scum like Shawn Michaels, and he starts to list things like instead of trying to face him like a man, you're too busy posing for girlie magazines and putting tattoos on yourself and earrings in your navel nose and ears shaking your ass and making yourself look like a horse's ass. And he said, you know, Shawn Michaels, the biggest thing that bothers me, she didn't have the guts to face me, a wrestlemainia this year, one on one. Tammy up this promo how much of this, you know, we hear these days. But everybody's given a script, how much of this is just Brett riffing. How much of this is bullet points? And what if any of it was approved ahead of time? I was say based on my experience there, especially during that tumultuous era. Browse going to say what Brett wanted to say and invinci- is gonna let him by and large. Not that, that's an indictment either side. So my point is that Brett traded the interview he knew what he wanted to say. He was going to take a direction that it would make him in his boys, heart foundation heels north of American massive massive baby faces in Canada, and the UK anywhere that, you know, we find out Conrad when you travel Americans are not loved by everybody, right? Started missing it, folks. But no, because we are somewhat arrogant. Conceited bastard, sometimes no doubt and you could. So Americans aren't love. You could tell that by how Trump was traded in England the protests and people sorta got better things to do than protest Donald Trump being inner city, but they seemed like they did. So Brett, they're smart. So in, in, in, in, in the lower lower forty eight so to speak. They're going to be heels. The problem with that you're going to ask her eighteen inches more money outside the US they're going to be maybe faces because they are saying the truth about what many Americans are. So it worked out pretty well bred interview. They're all all way around, and it certainly was not written. He certainly did not memorize it now, I'm sure that as any good performance will do he'll have bullet-point. So he the rat him down himself, which most will do just some sort of rule of thumb a direction or he will just make mental notes. If you're that if you're that good, and she got some structure, but I don't think it was written it all. And I don't think he's memorize it, I think came from his heart, he followed the direction where they're going in their story and where he was going with heart foundation. But it was a it was it was a riveting promo way ahead of his time. I thought. Well, Shawn Michaels disagree because the idea is Brett supposed to stand up out of his wheelchair and Sean, is gonna super kick him and then the show goes off the air. But Brett keeps talking and then when by the time he finally stands up and gets the super kick the shows off the air. They've already missed it. Ambert wrote about this, and he says the fan noise was so loud that he couldn't hear his cue instead of the show ending the way it was supposed to it ended with him still berating Sean, Sean, just standing there and doing nothing about it. And Sean backstage, thinks he's done it on purpose in his furious. What do you remember about the backstage? Temperament when Shawn comes back and realizes. Hey, none of it. Ship made air. Well, I was out front. So I lay my eyes seat loan is. I heard enough about it again. Wrestler, Sohn people that agents and guys, those t- those guys are talent racists, side of my, my world, could Whitcomb, tell me everything, you know, in embellish course. Shin-length thought it was a screw job. He'd been set up, but I am a firm believer, this very day that was not the case. I do. I know it was noisy. Brit was it? All Brett was very believable on the Mike and did some great promos from time to time without a doubt. But to say that his promo show the strength of his game would not be accurate because with the strength of his game was wrestling built a Bill in my opinion. So he missed his cue. And he didn't get any get his last line in apparently that he wanted to get in. And so they, they always have to have a Q. So tell me when you're going to do this until we're going to do that, which last line. And so they work that he worked that out with a truck or through the grill position, he didn't get there. And we went off the air but you know it aired the next week. So what is all my God? We lost it forever. But I never believed that Brentwood seventy is the angle. It's just not his style. It really isn't. But of course he was made to look like the bad guy and, and Sean had a lot of people. I'm sure in his ear chirping that, you know, Reggie screwed. You in. Are you guys that stupid? You know, the cameras rolling we got the we got this kick you kicked him out of the suite chair. It was a great move. It was a great. He'll move our face new two states. I guess, but certainly made Shawna. He'll everywhere else. So I never thought that was a conspiracy. I just thought it was oversight human error by, frankly. It's not as exotic a story to tell, but I think that's what happened. Yeah. You know Meltzer would freestyle that maybe some friends or in his ear his air, being shown trying to get them Wrold up. And as a result, the next week, Sean shows up at raw in mobile, and according to the observer, appears to be in no condition to perform when he was on TV. He slurring his words badly and makes a remark that Bryant was having some sunny days. And that, of course, is something everybody starts talking about. When did you realize I this is a this is a problem? What he started talking. You know he sound like he was. You know he goes slurring. You know. So either was extremely fatigued or he was he was Medicated since the ladder. And, but that was far these issues you know, he was not Sean was a very dark place at that point in time his lie for whatever reason, and there's plenty of good reasons, but the bottom line was he was not conducting himself as he does today and he, he needed he needed to change something. Obviously better lifestyle would have been one thing but he. I don't know. I just felt bad for him. You know, I love this kid, I went down to San Antonio talking to come back into business after he'd been gone for years. It took four years to get over his issues, basically bad back medicines, maybe some booze. I know attitude big time attitude issues, personal life. But, you know, I it was it was just sad to see where he was headed because he had not, and you gotta get McMahon credit to Shawn's making seven hundred fifty grand a year. You do that divide that by fifty two and you'll get how much he's making a week. It's pretty good money. You get that check every week. Every day every week of every year that he was under contract. And while he was sitting home San Antonio didn't have to happen. But that's how did it. And he like this always had a soft spot for Sean, because he saw Shawn's rebellious anti-establishment attitude as reminiscent of young Vince, in out, he had navigate the waters of the old WWW af when, when his dad owned it. And so I think there's something to be said about that. So Sean was a he was he was he was really going down a real bad road in luckily changes direction before got too late. Let's before we get down the rabbit hole of what happened next. I guess we should talk about the, the climate in wrestling at the time, because it does feel like you start to get a little bit more attention in the mainstream media, the Baltimore Sun, for example, is talking about how. Since the WWF is playing catch it ball. It feels like they're countering with sex violence. Crude language, and blood, would you disagree with that. Well. It's no. I wouldn't totally disagree with it. It's not totally untrue choice. Violences control violence. So I don't know what not the traditional violence. Those are Kevin. I actually went to work for dodo enough to an after that. And the creative side need us law work now for Danny mcdevitt in Maryland championship wrestling, smart guy. But the language is always, you know, kind of always cut so that language this use in describing it. Crude language. Okay. This far it was crude blood is not new. But yeah we, we went to some extremes. We've got a little bit. You know, we got more physical with boy started working a little bit more intense. It was a good fiscal style in. Sometimes you have, you know, broken noses and things of that nature that come along. But no, I don't think Kevin's totally wrong on that. I might not use the same words, but the bottom line is they meant the same. So he's, he's pretty much spot on. Let's keep moving here and talk about Michinoku pro wrestling, you guys are trying to work a deal out here, according to the observer, he saying there's nothing new on the relations with AAA. It looks like he has had a pretty successful event at Royal rumble, but now maybe it doesn't feel like there's going to be anything progress there, talk to us a little bit about the relationship with Mitch and Oku pro and AAA and how all the sudden those became a thing where for years and years, and almost felt like the WWF ignored everybody. Well, we start rethinking Conrad, and it's, you know, sometimes any business you have to step back and re re evaluate the reset, but some degree in some areas of what you're doing. We believe that our brand was going to be very global. We want to get more diversity on it. We wanted to do some more work and develop a junior heavyweight light heavyweight. Whatever. Cruiserweight where Where'd you wanna give it division? And we knew that there are a lot of really good young talents out there that were not giants that we could could be very entertaining on our television programming. So that's the Victor can Yoenis, who's a real close girl monsoon back in the day in Puerto Rico, and so forth. Victor is was our liaison between AAA and a Mitchell coop fro. So when we brought in kind tie those four fellas Ellen. Foo attorney trying to think of his name, I see. Chauffeur Nakae has left yet. He's still here states. I think he's got to be a citizen by now for God's sakes, annoys. Big Dallas Green Bay Packer fan. He'd say on Facebook, so those guys we just death. We got the new towns could do some new things with them. And of course, in our stupid society, because everybody started vividly remembers December seventh nineteen forty one. All the Asians were in or villains in that era was going to Larry. We think about it sad. Sad hilarity, but nonetheless, that's probably got it. We're gonna spend a roster Esa Japanese element. Get some guys that have a little different style and victim brokered that deal. 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And it has certainly I can only attest to how it works for me. And it works very well. Check it out. Blue dot com. Use promo code JR just let's talk a little bit about your good friend. Palmer. He's longer with us, but may seventeenth he is featured in his hometown newspaper, the mobile register and they're putting them over huge and talking a little bit about his background in wrestling. I don't know that we have spent enough time in wrestling really talking about who pallbearer really was before we just sort of keep it moving here. I just wanted to give you a minute to sort of talk about the man behind the character. Big George Jones fan biggest George Jones fan of the world. I somebody one of the big big ribs. One time somebody went might have been open to him and said that he just heard it short shows have been killed in a car wreck. And he didn't realize how serious that, that information was, too. Paul bear. It was devastating. And so the re really blew up in a wrong, way and old. Oh and apologize only kidding. And I don't know the Paul bear forgetting dig him that out, George shows he was a real mortician. Use an air force veteran United States Air Force, p was not always three hundred pounds. He did some wrestling. He did some managing, you know, news, a regular on the weekly shows there in the in mobile and then all territory. He worked a lot in Dallas for Fritz von Eric's. He worked for my friend, dentist rent for some sometimes and Dennis's company as well just a really good dude, man. Lee is great historian dearly, loved the business in getting to be that play that mortician, what you really was. It was undertaken was a match made in heaven. It really was. He was just a super guide. And I'm remember, we I paid for my budget. I didn't pay for you know what I mean out of my budget for that gas. Drik surgery to help you lose weight because he's going to, you know, was going to be a long life, and we think we extended his life, you know, but not long enough, obviously left us, too early. But we give we do the, the surgery latte band thing, wherever the hell it was. I don't remember executive name the procedure of it to help him lose some weight it kinda resurrect his career little bit because he got. So heavy is he was just as health is just going to hail? Distant. Minnesota sweetheart of a got the Conrad really good guy credit in the business without a doubt. One of the best, and I hope we get to talk about him long form some time if you guys are into it, we'll try to make it happen. Let's talk about the may nineteenth raw, you know, we, we briefly talked about the, you know, the whole sunny days promo, and that really sort of takes over the show, and it becomes what everybody is talking about did, did you think that? It's weird because I don't think anybody knew how this would shake out, obviously, nobody could have predicted Montreal. But with Brett and him being injured. Did you think any part of you think because the original plan for, if I have this correct was that Brenton Sean, we're going to do something that king of the ring, and then when Brett's injured that changes and so they pivot and we're going to talk about what they did, did you think at all that may be Brett? I don't know what sandbag and maybe he could go, but didn't want to and thought maybe now's not the time or I don't want to go in there against a guy don't really trust and not be my best. I'm not saying that he was faking the injury. But maybe somebody else he would've tried to power through. But because it showing he doesn't want anybody saying, oh, Brent gave me a bad match or whatever. No, I think that I think that Britain would not have taken that route, if he was a hundred percent healthy because he was very mentally, tough very mentally tough. And he would not have backed away from the challenge, and it was a challenge for Brit to deal with Sean and Shawn deliberate. And for them to coexist professionals. It was challenging everybody knows those challenging we know they had fight. So we know that they had the thing in Montreal etcetera etcetera. But they they, they had a legitimate rivalry. They, they pair at the end of the day. Just stop despised each other. So, but I never thought Brett would have walked away and upset the, the, the company in the plans the company to draw money which everybody in his locker room shared in. I didn't think he was that kind of guy and I still don't think he's that kind of guy. So again, I don't believe in the Bret Hart conspiracy that he plotted to sabotage the angle. Just I can't I'm not going to buy that one. Let's keep it moving here. And you do a sit down in this next episode where you're sitting down with mankind, and you're talking about him growing up, and the whole play of worms. Is this done the same way with gold dust? And why was the decision made to say, hey, you know what these gold dust ones, went well, let's do it now for Foley. Why was he the right guy to go to next? With this format mic had a great story detail it, we had footage showed unique footage. We finish mission earlier about snook, come up at cage, and mess for garden. We had footage of Mick wrestling as a teenager in jumping off his roof is house or something into a mattress. We have some classic old bridge that toll help tell our story in mic was amazing storyteller, this is before he written any of his books and I, I think that some of the mo- motiv- motivation I should say, breaking into rod the first book was. Was came out of some of those interviews that we did because they got over so big him just telling stories of his life. You know the story about playing across without a Cup and get into it getting hit Nagoya nods for the lacrosse ball or how they are in. You know, he just he is funny guy in store is real and relatable. So, you know, like you said the town that girls over notices growing was this his testicles or the size of grapefruits and from that injury. So he's just had a great store until Conrad, and, and, and we need to tell that story because we didn't Renault Nichols. Go fish for fowl historic down near many my baby face because he could fans could relate to almost every step of his journey, but we didn't we didn't need him to be a baby face the early early going, we need him to be able to guide. We can put with undertaker. That was why. That's why hired him. Undetected due to heal since Nick six Ford, three hundred pounds and he could match up well and they both those guys liked each other from previous stuck territories in Dallas ended Atlanta. So that was a deal. He's had a great story to tell. We felt like we were compelled to tell it, and we had no script. We did that in a little studio on a one twenty Hamilton at Stanford. At our crew there. And I noticed that as the night for grist did after work as a knife progress. We have more and more people hanging around that, that usually met one or two things one, they're waiting on some really good catering, or they are really enthralled in what they're hearing. It's an all of a sudden, we're doing this. This interview I think we get to a point took a break p break or something. Maybe eat on the sure, and all of a sudden here is voice from the darkness because, you know, the lights are on us. We can't see past the lights. And I remember he said, you know, he's he put it over looking down this good ship, boys. Good shit. You know something like that. And that was what's for guy like making myself that was great validation. He couldn't say anything better, any never in a never interjected his creativity. He never told us what to say in there told us to those guys went to edit out. He just let it roll. So we just said that along conversation. The only thing we knew we were going to do at the end was is going to get the mandible claw, in my, my only thought process was, I going to get the shooting men of a claw, or the working men will call, you know what the differences. Conrad don't. All right. The shooting minimal clause, put push to is to fingers in your mouth, under your tongue in squeeze with them, your chant, the working mandible claw is for. He takes save two fingers and bins more than half and it looks like they're in your mouth, but they're not. Luckily, for me I got the working men of a cloth. That's awesome. Yeah. But that's how we go to end it. But that's how he struck constructed our interview. That's why so many fans are saying is going to be great for a because they're not going do nothing to have riders to write these promos, these guys and tell them, what to say they're going to the Thomas say what they want as long as it's got some sort of structure as lie L outline of a bullet points. That's what it's going to be. So that's great. But that that interview was not written by anybody know riders no creative people were involved in it in that respect. It was just Nick Knight, and everybody knew the story, we're going to tell, but, you know, nobody wrote wrote a script trying to say there's no, teleprompter, no, nothing like that. So we had this click. I had good chemistry of the mic. I, I believe in the story, new story thoroughly. You know, I had to go to the walled hiring and, and all of a sudden you know, events in there and saying, this is good shit. I think it also gave mic a great deal of confidence that Vince founding recognize it McVay had a lot of talent. Let's keep it moving here because I want to move on from the interview, but I feel like I have to ask when you're when you're telling the sympathetic story about, you know, the kids are making me worms and all that. But then you, you, you finish that makes you feel like he's going to be a sympathetic baby face. We're gonna turn baby face, but then he puts the mandible claw and good ole JR. This is not traditional wrestling. This is shades of gray. It's not just standard. Good guys and bad guys. Right, right. Yeah. It's a it's a real story and it showed his unpredictability that sometimes he urges aggressive urges that could not be controlled, that he could not restrain himself from perpetrating, this, go to how we look to that thing. And so he's always wanted that unpredictable are about him. And you know, that's kind of where we are. And of course, we knew that nobody wanted to be a star DOE w more than Nick Foley for God's sakes. And apparently he would do. Anything to achieve that goal because he's done everything to get here including lose a half a year, and you heads, all scarred up. And, you know, arm scarred. And he's walking crooked crooked, and all that good stead losing teeth. He paid a lot of prices as obvious by this physicist appearance. So you kind of want it, we just told the whole story and then you let the audience decide if they lack him or on. No, I don't know if I like this guy or not. I'm to trust him or not. So let it play out. And then you let the audience descr BIC their own call. Did you like it? Or did you not like is he a baby face is a heel and the audit should be able to decide that themselves? We should mention here because I do want to put a bow on this Brett thing for a minute after the sunny days comment. You know, he talks about in this book, how, you know, Julie's wife and Stewart upset, and then people at school are starting to sort of mess with his kids, a little bit about the sunny days comment, and you have to call and apologize. And as a result Brentwood right in his book the route that week are brooded about what to do. I wondered about beating the hell out of Sean for real at the pay-per-view, but that could be cost to the company if he got badly hurt and had to be careful of my knee. I decided to tell Vince that I had to pull out of the pay per view, because my knee wasn't ready evince already had a plan stone cold catch me loan, flat, and me and bash, the hell out of me taking me out of the pay per view storyline, and that would be a clean win for Sean. Or what would have been a clean win for showing we should remember that Britain, had this authorised comic knee surgery, dawn on April twenty third, and we've set a stipulation here on this episode of Monday night. On the nineteenth that if he doesn't beat Shaun ten minutes. He'll never wrestle in the United States again. So it's over. Did you think at that point women never get this match? These guys are so sideways with each other, or did you think of actually what happen a lot of definitely would happen doubt. I too much work have been going into. They both knew that the one thing about the override there personally issues. Conrad is from a professional standpoint ego standpoint, is that they love having great matches? And nobody can deny that when those two cats are on with each other they've made great ma- make magic great music. No doubt. So, yeah, I thought it would abusively happened additional winter where what shape is going to take, but there's too much invested to not make it happen and anew that Brett was going to do all he could to get that stuff rolling back and ring he decided to restrain himself, the best he could from doing what he said. I was going to do that was beat up Sean because Sean and cross the line in the family thing, you know, in that was not good in it embarrassed. Retinas family that was certainly not cool. So it got just another log on Firemen's log on far. But I did think at the end of the day, we would finally get to see some sort of conclusion to the storyline because both guys are too old school, too much of a traditionalist to let the angle just evaporate and go away without a conclusion. Let's keep it moving here I guess, we should mention that raw did a three point six as the highest rating of the year for role when when a when rating comes in like that, maybe it doesn't win, but it's the highest rating of the year for you guys, you got to feel like okay, we're doing something right? Right. Or is it is it high fives all around? Or is it just business as usual? Well, there's some some obviously miniscule celebrating that we had we had our number in a while. But, you know, golly, you know, you're, you're just ice, healthy, this all the time, you know, I did you get to get depressed. Those eighty three weeks at Bischoff crew beat your ass us in a no not really. I didn't have time to get depressed because I had worked to do. And we had an you know, Sundays. We had another show to do that week or pay per view that way. Whatever. So there were no time for celebrating. No time for, you know, Muhu in it. But yeah, there was some. We, we thought we own is something Conrad with the reality based storytelling reality, they story, tell the fans could actually sink their teeth into and not have to try to buy, you know, some silly character, that's a that was going to all was a comedic thing. And I or so we thought were owned us something trend wise that we should continue to travel, this road should be a reality based when we did that as best we could. And in the talents for the talents that we had at that time or perfect for that scenario, and they love living, those stories out and embellishing on the reality of their lives and their issues. It's, it's a fun time to be a wrestling fan when you how did you find out that the match was showing Brett is off? And what did you think of the, the pivot to do Sean, and Austin, well, Vince, only after Sean are excuse me? Brett talked to Sean shit. Sorry. Lays Joan that after bread had this conversation with the vents. Of course, you know, sure. Within minutes of prevent saying the phone that he had me in his office. And he had an idea. You know, I wanna go with Austin in, I'd that to me was magic because I, I was in Austin, Mark seven AM stays good friends still is. I just saw something and felt something that I had not seen replicated in years. There was one time one period of time in Louisiana. In the mid south territory. J y de was white hot and he could do no wrong. And he so massive amounts of tickets and so forth. And people believed in him. They, they, they say gravitate to him black people. White people men, women adults children. I didn't know if the children are going to be, too crazy about Austin because his demeanor, but more the guys are our primary demo of males eighteen to thirty four and eighteen to forty nine load his ass. Big time. So when Vincent, I'm going to go with Austin no-one number one, I knew that Austin is shown to have a hell of a match in the fact that it gets office of rate TV exposure in building that brand of his that it was the right thing to do. So it was it was a good, call the best call. We could make why frankly and it worked out pretty good for everybody involved. But I just think Brinson recipe was not good. And look at you. Yes, earlier if Brett was at this is somebody else other than Sean, and it was a really a big thing and could could bread worked probably he might have. To work by just don't think he sandbagged in in, but it worked out pretty good. That was that show ended up being a pretty damn good pay per view. Let's talk about the situation was showing Michael's Meltzer. Well, he was not kind to Shawn Michaels in this era. He would say, but the situation with Michaels over the past few weeks has gone far deeper than making shoot comments after being told not to slurring his words on live television wearing a bandana on his head to signify to the television world. He still best friends, Kevin Nash complaining backstage, by having to do an interview with putting Ken shamrock over even walking out on the company the day he was supposed to drop his title at not returning until after the wrestlemainia that he was supposed to return to favour from the biggest victory of his career their boss screwing up nearly one promotion and being a key factor in the show, doing a poor Bahrain in the company being down literally millions of dollars in revenue from its biggest show of the year. He says Meltzer were going to say that he is ill equipped emotionally to handle the spot. But he's been given an came out again in recent weeks when. When he became an odds with Vince when he demanded a new contract one that would put his pay at the same level as his rival. And of course, we're talking about Brent heart there, and what man's down his demands, he gives us notice, saying he wants to join his real friends in WCW, but he's got four years left on the deal. So McMahon refuses goes back to that league Cassie situation about earlier. It can't let guys go just walked in their contract when they feel like they went to leave. Did you feel like this feels common? I mean you can tell just by the way, Dave says this happened and this happened and this happened this happened and then even says, I want your take on this ill-equipped emotionally handle the spot. His talent has gotten him. Do you agree with that assessment at that time, he was at that time he was because, again, you make a lot of decisions under stress depression, sits in a lot of things for these performers. And add either drugs, and, or alcohol abuse, you know self medicating prescription maids all this other crap. So under those terms melts are probably right, under the circumstances, now, eventually, that would be cleared up, and he would be fine, as you know, he's very valuable to WWE. Now Sean is in the performance center. So, but yeah, he wasn't ready. He he lost his buddies just a whole slew of things. And again, I don't know how his home life was. I don't think it was great. You know he had not married. He not married his current wife that time. Don't believe what she made a big difference in his life. Electorate for him because he would be he, we he we be talking about him posthumously we. He had not met her in my opinion, and she'll change his life. He had major issues. Now all that said he still along with the Nate was the two best in ring workers, I ever saw, so he stayed. And even when we brought him back a four year hiatus because back his first night in good as we've got not better. So he was special and a lot of ways. But he, he was not nearly able to handle his issues outside of the ring as he was to be able to go bell to bell with anybody. So when you hear hey, there's an issue with Brett, I mean, do you hear that from Vince and does everybody in the meeting sorta go fuck, not this again? I don't know. I, I don't think we all knew that the possibility of Britain, not having the match goes as injury. Was there. No. I mean in terms of with showing like showing wants to be paid like Brad. Oh, another fucking Shawn Michaels is upset about Brent deal. Yeah. He's got it got old ago to the thing is that. You don't tear up contracts for years left. All right. That's, that's not bad. That's, that's bad business in. It's not very smart. Even ask somebody that question. He's getting he's making great money. And, you know, of course, he's he's talking to Kevin and Scott, and they're telling me how great things are. They're doing where they want, and they run their own show, their own program, which aired my disagree with. I don't know what the you know, they're, they're going to play in a very rosy Fisher, to try to get Sean to come down there with them and that wasn't going to happen. There was no way in hell England for four years. I tell you that. So hold your breath. No, don't hold your breath. It's written in the tired of you could talk to anybody doing that. You know is like I said, people think I'm over simplified shit. It's always a cash and creative. It was written in the observer, that Sean, is making roughly seven fifty and that's his downside. And he signed a five year deal after wrestlemania twelve when he won the world title or maybe right before, but it's a five year deal around wrestlemania twelve with downside of seven fifty is that sound like it's in the ballpark. Oh, yes. Accurate. He gets fifty 'cause again, I'm, I'm that's my budget right at that time and all said earlier, Vince took care Sean because he's he felt a kinship to soda gun. And he, he, he he loved that. On press is his demeanor and a lot of ways because this reminded incidents when young vans. So all of that's bragging or complaining, I don't have a clue, but nonetheless Shawn's making sent fifteen made seven fifty a week for four years. And all that time he was home. Like I said earlier, he was making seven hundred fifty two hundred year. A lot of money to not do nothing. Let's, let's talk about something that happened the next week on raw, this has been something that's floated around in the internet in these last few years, you know, obviously things are different times for different, you address that earlier, when we talked about the racial promo from Faruk, Jerry Lawler comes out and cuts, the promo on Golda trying to hype their match, and he says, something like gold soul man old dust doesn't even love him anymore. Well, I know dusty Rhodes and he told me why it's because you married the biggest gold digger in Georgia, and then went on a woman's wig and went around kissing men, like a flaming f word and then regarding Dakota Lawler said you should've named that little brat target because I heard everybody in Atlanta had a shot at it. Classic. Well that was not written for him. You know, it's an AG promo, you know, in, in, in the aero where, you know, things were over the edge. This got everybody's attention. It is something that you would almost here on, like a roast battle or something like that. It's there's lots of low blows, but it is making gold dust that sympathetic baby face, which was the idea with the interview the previous week. But does anybody say, hey, I don't know if this is a good idea, obviously talking about old us, and, you know, that's whatever, but then to say the F word and then to reference the child, maybe in hindsight, not the best idea. Maybe maybe a good point. It, you gotta remember you the talents. They saw that the blinders are off and the bits are out of their mouth. There were run free. Most of them will take it as far as they can. And lawler. Getting the word that, hey, we want to be alleged here in your, he'll above blah. Righetti how great he'll Jerry Lawler was in amazing talker during that time. Like I said, I watch the. This week. I watched it on Tuesday, and, and, you know, his work leading into that in that night was classic. Any young wrestler? That's watching that wants to be a heel and wants to know, fundamental soundness in the logic of being a great. He'll should watch the abyss. We're talking about here today and watch how Lawler navigate thing he wasn't a young kid at that time. He was a veteran. He didn't lose a step is all about psychology in positioning. It was as good as you'll see. So it's like it's like a clinic on how to be a wrestling. He'll not a bruiser Brody heal our Abdulah, butcher, he'll the monster. He'll because there's not a monster. He'll he's, he's a wrestling, he'll, and she'd get a great example of what arresting really is. If you watch that show and watch his mannerisms is timing. He sales differently as a healed, and he does baby face. He has it down to a science. Science, but he wouldn't have been this firm sale could certainly been argue that it was a little bit too edgy. And I don't condone talking about children or religion or sexual preferences, or are in that stuff, politics, religion, the don't belong resting to me, but we had the we, we didn't have any rules and he took it as far as he could go. Then you tell visit tells guys we'll go see what she got unless we got really in will Rian next time. So it's kind of where it was. Let's talk about the, the dude love footage because that's aired. In part, two of your mankind interview. When did you guys know you had this dude, love foot, and it's how does it even come up where you see footage of a young? Mick Foley, jumping off the roof of his house and cutting promos. I mean, does he say, hey, I've got this. I was come about it admit for provided us, the, those Oho movies in this discovered dude love. And you know, makes suicidal nature high risk. No high reward type thing, but Mick provide the home movies with we've found is like find these hidden gyms the NFL films bolt. It was his classic stuff that we, we had to use it. We had to figure out a way to use it in the in the in those interviews mickan I did was the vehicle that we do. One of the things that happened on this show and happen to lie in this era, especially after wrestlemania thirteen was, we would see sable modeling stuff, where those an undertaker shirt, or an Austin three sixteen shirt here. She's modeling, the inflatable king of the ring chair, which is a fifty nine dollar item. Plus eleven dollars shipping and handling were surprised when you would see the ratings come in and holy cow. Samples pop in a number. And she's doing walking down the ramp, and a t shirt, right? Right. And she did it very well. She's very, very well. And of course, those t shirts are always like double mediums or something. Sure, they were very form fitting, shall we say? And and she had a very nice form for them to fit. You know, not just like we've talked about, on the show before Connie, you know what Vincent, I interviewed Mark Mero, and she and his wife Rena came along with for the meeting, and then we go back and he's calls me in a few minutes. Did you see what I saw? I sure did. God damn JR. Well, so she was she, she was she had it, man. The sex appeal the look the walk stature, the is smile little smirk. She knew she was in control and the great stars. They said the same thing about the, the original nature, boy, buddy, Rogers, that he could leave when he left the dressing room and he walked out that great tan, and his nice robes and stuff, and some people cheer him because he looked like a real pro, but with a sneers in his arrogance and his walk by the time he got into the ring they hated him. And that's a true story in Rina. You can tell she's the same way on the opposite. She walked walk, the isle or selling jobs, or Vanna, white make you measure on, who. Vanna white and watch job and have been jeopardy Everingham because along in that role. But she did real well in the minute that sort of minute by minute ratings again influenced creative, and I think that's probably a smart thing. The audit has always responded, always responded to her. It was documented. So she should be doing something more than modeling t shirt. Well, I'll tell you a t-shirt what was the topic in the office after these mankind promos air. They sit down interviews with you air killer would write that the sales on the shirts for mankind. Go up three hundred percent. Talk about building a baby face right? Yep. It's only after she had all that money. I got those shirts, nothing not a damn thing. But no it worked we. That was part of the whole process of building that, that character is going to be a day face or heel. We knew what we wanted to rid a initially, but we knew that we have more because we had three layers. We knew cactus Jack was of care to Vincent when he uses the beginning. So we, we he, he helped invent mankind with the mask, and hold on yards. I was missing deal because he didn't want he want to create something new, a WWF version of Mick Foley. And so then we didn't didn't do love came along and home movie. So we know got cactus Jack now we got mankind, and who's do love, dude, dude low, dude. So we, we got three guys that we got three t shirts got three minutes, vents got you know, we've got all kinds of ways to go with this thing. And in established mic having more. Security saw it because he had a lot of diversity can help us a lot of ways they face he'll one of three characters and he was also reliable. So it was a good news. It was a marriage made in heaven for us as far as Mick evolved in that in those three roles we got lucky. Let's keep it moving here. I want to talk about the match were Shawn Michaels is going to team up with Steve Austin, they become reluctant partners. You know, Austin and tease he was going to use Harvey Whipple, men, Brooklyn brawler eventually become Sean, Sean is making it clear. Nobody likes me around here. I don't know if you wanna do that. And he is successful in his quest to become tax champion. With Steve Austin, they beat Owen and bulldog here and you push on commentary that this is Shaun's first match in four months. Awesome. It's going to get the three count afterwards. Of course, the entire har- foundation jumps on Shawn Michaels and Austin looks on walks past them. And instead goes after Bret Hart at the top of the runway. And of course, that leads bulldog and Owen end to make the save. Something happened to that match though away killer would report that showing slide kicked Austin in the match by mistake as part of the angle and Michael's actually accidentally damages. Austin's neck, Austin, apparently, felt a sharp pain after the impact, and his leg buckles, and you can actually see that on the tape, and he has a result is going to go see a few different. Doctors. They're saying there's no major damage, but the Mara is showing that he has the neck of a sixty year old and this is a head of summer slam ninety seven when you heard. Hey, maybe Austin suffered an injury here in this match was showing does this just feel like a snake bit pay per view on our March. They're a little bit. Yeah. A little bit. Luckily that that I clarify it was a spot in a match that these two guys that called, but just the execution of it in the waste where St. was standing Now, Sean kicked in all the the the stars aligned. Unfortunately, on that one, I know that the Steve found a great neurologist Nick guy in San Antonio. And I think his name is Lloyd Youngblood. And Dr young has got invented surgery of on the Steve, but it was a delicate situation all those years of football, and he was a tailback in school, and he got a cared about twenty five thirty times a game in most of the straight ahead, low your head and go, so you don't have, you know. Equipment as it was at that time. So football probably had a issue, this Nick issues, then he went to North Texas for the mean green and played defensive end also striking people in this head and neck again, then wrestling, and then, you know, everybody was just free Willie this these the share shots. My god. It got to be with the boys are, like a who could make the loudest noise can hit the hardest. Right. It was sad. Man. We were just kept it condoning, it was just not knowing all the repercussions of the long term effects of CT, and all those things. So, you know, we, we just held our breath because anybody that had any sense that didn't have a dog in the hunt. Like a buddy who Steve was passing up on the roster to see that he was our Stephen as the next big thing. And we just we want to keep him healthy. A for lotteries is not just that, but it was it was, it was dic- really, really dicey because we had big plans for Steve. And of course, that kind of went out the poop chute on in summer saying that your own. Let's talk about the last segment on this particular raw. We're still trying to pay off this undertaker Paul secret. It looks like it's finally gonna come out undertaker then grabs bear by the throat. And then after this long awkward pause. He kneels at bear's feet, and seemingly submitting guest that he doesn't want the secret to come out on the show to close. Nitro does the three point two raw does a two point seven eight. Let's fast forward. Brett wrote in his book on June second, I had an in-depth talk with Vince McMahon. He told me the company was in financial payroll, and he was only just barely hanging on the next six months or either gonna make or break him. He said, Ted Turner was hell bent on putting them out of business. And he told me he might have no choice other than to restructure my contract. Of course, still get every damn he owed. But I've get it on the back end years down the road. He added that he appreciated. How hard I was working for him. And he told me not to worry about anything. I sure didn't want to receive the money owed to me now at the back of my contract. So I did call my lawyers who my options were events tried to do that kind of a move. But when it came down to it, I don't believe that he ever would do that. Did you does Vance have a talk with? I mean you're making budgets, so dec- sit down with you and say Jim. What can we do? What does or see? Bring it to you and say looking at this, I think we've got a restructure bread and you'll have a con. Sation head of that conversation. Or do you find about found out about it after the fact? Well, I knew that we're, we're treading on thin ice. You know, to the point that he had a conversation, one point where. There was casual casualness. That'd be the word. It was a formal meeting, but, you know, we talked about the option of bankruptcy reorganization, so serious very serious. Again, for those of us did take those cuts in pay. It was down real to you. You know, real real stuff. Check struck a bunch after that. So the we knew we're, we're cash loves bad. We gotta get something hot. We had to get some talent over at somebody's gotta get hot start drawing. We pay for your tractions it cetera et cetera. But we didn't have that we were still working toward that deal. But then, you know, he, he said the brick, I think his word sent me was the brittney now where this financial situation is going to be pretty problematic. Well, what somebody tells you that you, here's what you, you know, you don't have to be a mathematician, or NBA to figure out the back that we got we got to fix this thing. So we got an influx of new cash, and be able to honor Bret Hart's contract, or we gotta go to Brett say, hey, look, we made a mistake, we didn't realize this is going to be this way. We don't have the cash flow, we can honor our agreement that we want to restructure. Must I go see the NFL all the time we want to restructure. And in this kind of, we kind of know this one of those things are gonna happen. But we didn't have a specific conversation about Brett, but I knew that his deal was tenuous. It was it was a little. It was a little rough now because of the of the of the economy and our economy's cynically. Let's keep it moving here. We're gonna talk about the go home edition of raw on our way to king of the ring. But I, I want to ask you about great sausa- Kay. He held a press conference on may twenty eighth in Tokyo to announce that he had signed with the WWF. He says the WWF offered him a one year contract. He only agreed to a six month deal. How did great sausage Kate come to be on your radar. He got who's trying to send tapes. Are you guys? Actively looking for a way to compete with the Lucci doors on nitro and the cruiserweight. Or does this come to get Victor, Kim is again brought him to us as a as trying to get more diversified and defines the new talent? So refresh talents you know, WCW decide a lot of people the Indy certainly any situation then was not like as good as it is now. And so we needed some fresh talent that we could work with creatively and it could offer. Or something that we didn't have and that was the, the contact group, the junior heavyweights, so Saskia was the boss of that group. Mitch Noko pro so he that's how we sl came about again. Victor Jonas was our liaison with, with the Japanese and the Mexican promotion. Let's go home. Addition of raw opens up with the undertaker Vince is trying to get an explanation out of him for why did what he did. And he explains that he wasn't doing that to protect himself, but the ones he loved hall bear wants to come out and say, hey, you've done enough talking. Maybe I should do some talking and bears going to say that now that he controls both mankind in the undertaker. He's going to be the ruler of the world. And if that point said music hits, and you exclaim he's back and you explain that he's been out with a lower lumbar back injury and said sets the record straight that, first of all, Fatman, you don't rule nothing. I'll rule the world sits back here. Talk to me a little bit. We haven't spent a lot of time talking about said, but this is a guy who developed a reputation for being in and out, and there's lots of rumor innuendo and sort of inside jokes about softball was really here with a lower. Lum, lumbar injury. And. What can you tell us about SIDS return and his sabbatical, if you will? Well, I only had I had to believe that back was bad and that, you know as affecting his work cetera et cetera. But law, the boys will tell you that, you know it was softball season. He loved to play softball. And you know, he was an attraction softball hit the long ball you as you can imagine you wanna butter. He didn't move and Brunner's around. He didn't sacrifice anybody. He hit the long ball. So, but sits you keep sig kept getting opportunities because of a mazing in obvious unlimited fiscal potential. He had an amazing look use athletic for a guy for guy his size in so he had everything he had it. And you know, I. But always something seemed to get in the way always something of adversely affected the progress of this guy who really legitimately if you're going to draw pitcher of a big box up guy. He's one of the guys you draw because he's six nine three hundred is ripped up it looks great. And if the obese McMahon rule, he walked to the airport, some I gonna notice noticing you didn't. Right. They are. So that was the he's kept waiting that all the baggage of whatever was self inflicted baggage or are donated baggage on. Sid was going to go away and he was going to be able to be what he what he wanted to be needed to be it. Just never did happen. WWE. Let's talk a little bit about the way we build to this Shawn Michaels. Steve Austin match here originally as we said, this is supposed to be shown Michael's, and Bret Hart, you might wonder what was Steve Austin supposed to do? He's supposed to be finally paying off with a match with Brian pill, Mun. And they've been building this thing since the prior fall. It was the prior September October when Austin broke into his house and whom and pulled a gun and this is supposed to be the big payoff. But according to the rumor and innuendo Bilman wasn't all the way ready to go Sean now needed an opponent. So you guys pivot on the way to the pay per view just six days, prior, and say, no, we're going to have the tax chimp's face each other. We dissipated that Brian wasn't able to go or was this sort of an easy fix and you still had hope for the future. Although certainly, an easy fix we had hoped that the future. And yes, I was just phoned at Bryant wasn't cleared. In the question was always going to be than we'll ever be cleared. Because since we should back that up, I guess, when he first signed with the company, he had been in a humvee, injure in a humvee crash, and as a result, he just shattered his ankle a believe, and, and was not able to perform. So we've got lots of stops and starts, where we think you'll be right here. Now he's not. Okay. We'll think you'll be ready to hear. Nope. He's not. Okay. We think you'll be ready to hear. Nope. He's not. And eventually, they do one of these where it's going to be an angle because I know he's got to go have another surgery done. So on superstars in the fall of ninety six you have Austin put his foot in the chair jump off the top crush the ankle, quote unquote. Then he does the surgery. Now he's got the big cast on. That's when Austin breaks in. So we're finally, he's moving around but still not medically cleared, and it doesn't feel like at this point, you guys have gotten much of a return at all from your Brian Pitman investment, though, fortunate, we didn't is ankle fused. So he couldn't couldn't bend it. So it really obviously restricts a very athletic. Two hundred fifteen twenty pound guys mobility. And the guy that size couldn't really afford to have that mobility restricted as it was. It was a heartbreaking thing, and, and the I believe that it really contributed to Brian's death. The fact that he was so disappointed in his career because he knew back was head that he could never do the athletic things that he used to do as lying Brian with a few ankle. It's it was sad to see that emotionally. It was really working on him. And he had he has he has some, you know, some drug and alcohol issues. I remember I drug test at somewhere, somebody when not before we were some town. He was sleep on the Florida dressing room. Coach Jack Lanza gives me a call tells me what happens. So I order a call the office and get my stuff together and we'd get a, a drug test, God, Dr there and he's got a. In the bottle, the next night, and he was, so, irate, he called me at home. And I guess he forgot that, you know, I'm living in Connecticut, and he's in Washington state. It's like ten o'clock in Washington state. So it's one AM for me and the phone rings and Jan answers, the phone as she did more often, not unless you got smart finally, moved the phone amasau the bed, but. Talk to him. He's Cussing raising hell. And I can't believe you do this to me. And I thought we were friends and all these things. And I said Brown, we are France. That's why I am doing somebody's gonna protect you from you. And so, you know he had some he has some pain medicine ending. They didn't have prescription for think. And, and some things you know, just Mussa steroids. I'm not real sure. But this day is, is miniscule, if he had any but nonetheless, he was he's the, the ankle fused broke his heart because he knew could never do what he wanted to do. And that's why I kept trying to convince him that he could be the next Jesse Ventura. It'd be a great to that crazy voice of his gravelly voice. He's very intelligent very quick, witted understood the business very well read, you know, up in pop culture, and all those good things. But boy, he just hated that he thought that was a huge huge come down in will make him much less of a man that he wanted to be perceived as it was a very sad thing that humvee accident really it didn't killing the accident killing. But the results of the accident, I think led to his death. We'll talk about Brian pill more another time. I'm sure we see Vince interview the road warriors, and he's asking them if they ever had problems getting along. And of course, they deny it, and he's asking this because they're about to take on Shawn Michaels, and Steve Austin, her both reddening to beat the shit out of each other Elodie gets the win by count out. So Austin and Michaels retain the tag titles. Then we see part three of the interview with mankind and you're asking what fuels the insanity in. He's telling the story about cactus Jack, we're finally knowledge in cactus, Jack, which WWF really never done before. And he talks about the quote sadistic wrestling subculture in Japan with death match wrestling. This was like bizarre to me as a longtime WFAN to see you guys, acknowledging anything else happening, much less death match. Wrestling from Japan. What's Vince is. Stance on this Hannity softened. And what did he think of fucking death match wrestling? Well, it wasn't a matter of that we're gonna start endorsing death match wrestling. It was running knowledge that exists in that it self was a major step forward for Vince, that there was a world outside WWF at that time. And as I said earlier, sometimes even the most. Established organizations and there's no organization anymore established, and WWE so more profitable sometimes even those companies have got to sit back and say we want we might want the reset button and changed our philosophy a little bit in, in a man, what we're doing creatively. Our presentation needs to be tweaked, it, maybe this time. Maybe that's now for those guys, I don't have a clue deal. But bottom line is every cut got to do that periodically in entertainment world. You can't stay status quo. There's only a few things at work that way, you know, even even the jeopardy this cat. When all that money, they do thirty minutes show tech some twenty two minutes of content. It's a little different animal, but the bottom line is most shows have to have constant tweaking in not sure they've made some tweaks over the years but nonetheless it's a different animal, but it's hard to keep something on television. Same. Year after year after year after year you our news chains who's he whether men now we got whether women than we female meteorologist, I got female sports anchors. Things are changing, and so we need to change, and I think that are acknowledging these other organizations, a we had, we've come to acknowledge that with the billionaire, Ted stuff and all that stuff too. So it was just a matter of Vince changing his mind on how he's going to perceive things has positioning. And you know, some are saying is missed earlier not being asshole. But maybe it's time for him to do that again. Sock a little bit about what's next on the show. We've got undertaker instead for the world title and you can't help yourself. You say that said swings the best baseball bat or best softball bat, and all of the world, wrestling federation just kind of fun. What do I s? Undertaker gets the pen, of course in OD interferes at the end once the matches over and that's our go home show just a few weeks or a few months prior to this sid and undertaker was the main event of wrestlemainia and here. It's less than five minutes with a clean pin. Does that tell us that sits fallen out of favor? Or is it just we're trying to sell the piper? You know it it told you we're trying to sell the paper you, obviously. But it told you that the, the front office had lost confidence in said at that point in time and his push is priority of being reevaluated. So. The match undertaker said had at wrestlemania thirteen. I'm sure if yes both those gentlemen to tell you that wasn't their best match that they've ever been involved in. It was a little bit. But it had to follow Britain's Steve and that's tough really tough so face on that night. So they wanna test pot, but nonetheless said did kind of fall out of favor on that one is under and it's unfortunate Conrad, because again, I always thought sit had everything, look, demeanor, the whole nine yards just it's for whatever reason we just couldn't quite get him over the hump. The show in the ratings winds up with a two point seven eight nitro. That night gets a three point two eight let's get to the real show reason we're here king of the ring nineteen Ninety-seven. You guys do nine thousand three hundred twelve fans the gates two hundred and two thousand nine hundred sixty three bucks the arena set for sixteen thousand but only ninety three hundred or here you once or twice in the show, referenced that there's ten thousand fans here, but McMahon multiple times calls it a capacity crowd. And fence always did that he always called it a capacity crowd. Even if it wasn't sold out, he think Vince knows what capacity crowd. Oh, I think he probably does. I think it's just part of his Denver neck, your. It's like the piece about me, he can't help himself to Arkansas themselves. I don't think this is that's that's the promoter in him. And so he overlapping roles of being the promoter the owner of the company and the lead broadcaster. So now he had to have to doing that. You know, for all those all those years, we thought that the wrestlemania three did not three thousand people, I wasn't there. I didn't see it. I saw it on. I'm close circuit actually, but we found out the end of the day when the when the newsletters and the meltzer's Keller's the world found out of a seventy eight thousand that was that was a headline. For whatever reason, you know, McMahon embellish see this dome crowd, so, you know, hell, I don't know. But yeah, it I wouldn't come from with that. And, and he never said anything to me about that, though. It was all what I said, was the truth in it was a good crowd. We the shots for good. But, you know, it was a house. Let's talk a little bit about Vince, as a broadcast partner. I like you didn't remember that you guys did commentary together on this. How would you can't garage is the roles? I know traditionally, people think, okay, this play by play that Goss color. But a lot of times throughout this show, this is trying to do play by play in that feels like that should be the other way around. Did you guys have a conversation about that? Or did you know, hey, it's his show. I'm just here to support them. However, Cam, I knew my role arose going to be the colored guy Lawler was not with us at night because he's in the tournament. So as Vincent, I and so my role didn't. Change. This is always the lead when it was he Jerry myself. It was still always the lead in Jerry, and I would fill in basically Jerry, I and I would get picked up whatever's left and no problem with that, quite frankly. But yeah. At that we knew what the I do in my role is going to be, that's why that show. If folks go back and listen to it, you'll hear so much background information. I felt it was, you know, my storytelling theory is that, you know, we've got to continue to tell the audience who these guys are in why they're here and cetera et cetera. So I did a lot of background information that show and I think I did it at the I was pleasantly surprised at how I did watch a show back because I didn't really step on any dramatic moments are high spots or false, finishes or anything like that. It was done at a time when there's either wrestler separation are during an entrance. We get some that background information. And, but I thought it helped to show and it told her about it who who who these guys were, and we were lost. Audience. They're trying to gain audience back. So we thought with new people coming back. They might not know the backstory of all these cats. So that's kind of why we did you know, I knew my role is going to be the color guide, part, frankly, worked up on your dark mash, that night was the head bangers getting a win over bar gun and Jesse James that would have been a weird version of the new age. L ause. It's the wrong smoking gun here. The head bangers get the win in six minutes, and ten seconds and Meltzer would note before the show started. They do an angle that simply for the live crown or they're trying to remind everyone. Hey, man cons a face now. So mankind comes out to cheers, since he's without Paul Heyman and cuts babyfaced. Promo and Lawler appears on the video screen does he'll promo. I guess they just wanted to sorta prom the audience for a second match on the car, but let's talk about the first match we open it up with Ahmed Johnson, come into the ring or I guess he could have been bugged Johnson. Thankfully, Bill watts wasn't around for that. One hundred hers Townsley is out next. This is supposed to be his year in one thousand nine hundred six to win the king of the ring. Of course, we know he's now going to claim that crown here in ninety seven seven minutes and forty two seconds, this is a king of the ring semifinal. The match is okay. But I was reminded watching this, why I was not a huge Ahmed Johnson fan. What'd you think of the match watching it back for the first time in twenty something years out thought hundred got of Ahmed is good humanly be done on? It was still very green. You know again, you guys great look. But I don't know if he had a feel for the game. And I thought he, he may he may have listened to the wrong people to. He seemed to always not trust anybody, and, you know, you get in the entertainment world, you've got to start trusting somebody somewhere. Find your little inner circle you can you can count on and trust those dudes but I, I thought one hundred dollars about much out at all medicine. Going to get and you saw the value of Joni China how that she was used. I can assure you that the Paul avec helped set out the layout that match per start to finish which showed you his ability to do those things. And I thought he did a nice job. I think it was a surprise that to Ahmed loss, because I'll mid kind of going into saying was, you know, we kind of made him the pre tournament favourite because he was so impressive. And he hadn't been touched. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people would have thought that I'm Ed Johnson was the favourite. He hit and lost a lot on TV. It was a big deal when he finally did lose. You guys made him the Kuwaiti Cup champion once before. I mean, those, there's a lot of I guess, belief that Ahmed was going to be the guy, but hundred picks up the win here with a very Jack China, you're pushing that she's benching over three hundred pounds and it's remarkable to see this early footage of China considering what we know she would look like when we knew were later, after she had had some augmentation and some enhancements it will have a little talk. But seeing her in her nineteen Ninety-seven form is probably the way I still remember the most. Yeah. It was brought back a of memories to see her another brought back memories. Folks, if you watch that show back on the w network or YouTube where we see it mean Jean Oakland voice over the cold. Open lack of voiceover guy in. I didn't realize that I listened to the second time it was it brought tears from is because of jeans. Voice full cleared clean. And if you don't go back if you go back and watch this show, only to hear jeans open with select a minute. Voiceover style. It'd be worth it. You'll you'll appreciate is work skills at that time, but new Joni was a big asset and I got a hint. Two hundred hundred Joanie was not a not a dumb woman. She's not by any stretch. But hunter really had a great feel for that, that the pair them that character. And he did a great job in molding, her in getting her to be in the right place, right time the right demeanor, no non yards. And she was very consistent with it. She played her giving very, very well. And we realized that they were going to be money, money group pair, but at that time you go saying thing you could tell with the with we, we talked about earlier Ahmed, we kind of moved on from that's why I didn't win the tournament. He wasn't ready for it. And there was not a trust factor there, that was everybody was comfortable with want to mention Jerry lawler's in our next match here. And of course, everybody in this era is talk. About how, you know, Jerry lawler's old or over the hill or whatever he's only forty seven and the undertaker is going to wrestle tomorrow in Saudi Arabia is fifty four. So just keep that in your purview when he wants king of the ring, ninety seven again, mankind gets a win here over Jerry Lawler, ten minutes twenty four seconds with the mandible claw, of course beforehand. We see an interview that, you know, mankind's trying for the crowd doesn't feel like anyone's really reacting to it beyond Vincent man, who's forced to. And then Lawler comes out and does his usual, hey, I'm gonna crack jokes on everybody on the way there. What did you think of the match Meltzer gave it a star and three quarters? Although it was better than that after watching it again. It was it was everything I thought it would probably be I, I disappointed did. They didn't do any. They did not do anything. I thought they should or didn't they should have done or whatever. So I I disagree with David on that one, I thought it was little bit better. They'll start on half. But nonetheless. It shows you again. The magic of the hill, Jerry Lawler, so you guys are listening there any students of the game that won't look at somebody that the textbook or you're a wrestler in you, understand more about crowd psychology. And that's a great ten minutes, and twenty four seconds of your time that I would sure to check out. Let's talk a little bit about the next match. But before we do I want to talk about. Brian pill, Pilkington. He's doing an interview backstage, Steve Austin sneaks up behind him. We the viewer at home. Can see that Austen's behind him. At, of course. Boom and has no idea is right behind him. And then Austin attacks him, and then eventually puts his head in a toilet bowl and magically as luck would have it there's a camera over the toilet. So can I don't know who installed that I don't I don't know, if that was Klondyke mill or who but there's a camera over the toilet and you see pills had go into the toilet. Of course. Austin flushes. Who hands that pizza curative to film, and to see feel like I'll shit, man. I gotta get this ankle working because they're all kinds of weird shit. I mean if I don't well, you know, maybe T L hopper. Actually that idea unless you're te'o hopper. The, the plumber or the plumber crack? You know, I'm thinking, that's a create about it might have been Russo idea. I'm not real sure we honestly, it was it came from creative, but I can promise you that is Steve and Brian, and not liked it thought it was entertaining, then they would have done it. And they had to cloud both of the cloud to say I'm not going to stick my head and told us to. But I thought one of the great shots there, if you guys again, go back and see this Bryant hair. It's like his hair. He his head is a toilet in his hairs, all over the is like a big baller hair in a told us to look at somebody, you know, a cat, the cat airball, it was funnier than hell, but it showed an Austin didn't care about anything or anybody doing anything to, to prove his point cetera et cetera. He's the rattlesnake and rattlesnakes. Don't make good corporate pets. Somebody won't said. Next up. You've got gold dust working with crush melts Ord. Right. This match killed the crowd. Wow. I gave it a dud writing, not a great match. Is this just? They don't jail. I mean some of this is blamed on crush in the observer mills. Would. Right. Crushes just awful basically. He's Jim Duggan without the charisma. Lots of long nerve holds and Chen locks is this just, you know, the chemistry's not there or just, just suck. I thought there's no chemistry there. There's no there was no chemistry there. They didn't jive you know, I think sometimes Brian aka crushes Brian was very high on his. On himself. An and that's good, but he might not have been as good as he perceived that he was he had every physically, he's gifted no doubt in a nice guy, good, looking guy strong when they did the vignettes WD vignettes with him in the why I thought that was his best work, best positioning. He noted make a great. He'll to me in. He in the industrials did not have good chemistry for whatever reason it's not an, you know, again, it's not a bad thing. A lot of guys nobody's ever going to tell me, Austin and entertainment, great chemistry together. They didn't. But they had a lot of matches but they didn't have their best mashes with each other as do the other people. That's just a curious thing. And that's kind of what we're here with crush. I don't think it was a bad worker was he. I don't think it was a great worker, but he certainly was better than that match would have should have indicated. Let's talk about the next match its own heart teaming up with Jim not Hart and Davey boy Smith take on psycho said in late in a doom the Hart foundation, get the win thirteen minutes and thirty seven seconds star and three quarters. Maybe not the the best match. These guys ever had lots of good workers in here. Lots of hall of famers. But I thought this was a bit of a mess. What'd you think? Yeah too many cooks in the kitchen. Think too many is to take care of, in my view. You know. They beat said in the six Mellanby L won't be said in a little of sunset flip thing when it says looking to our bomb, I think, David boy. I loved Owen and the anvil dating. It was clear to me that while Davey and neidhart were very, very viable valuable hall of fame guys. That the star that team was open heart. That's we forget, how good he was he was amazing this match. So I would say that it melts are believed. It was a one and three quarter star that might have been the Manatt have been one start without Owen a match. But again, the, you know, you is it. The chemistry was was tough and not the chemistry that mash, not a great booking by us, quite frankly. Thank God oh one hundred good night. And but the match it have been better with all that star power in there. But there you gotta remember man, there's a lot of egos lot, alpha, males, a lot of guys don't have to sell in when you get into a situation where guys believe that selling is a weakness not only are they showing their ignorance, there's also like the Matt suck you got to sell no matter who you are Andre soul. So I can't you that thing? Never heard that before. That's a great lawn. Next up hundred hers Townsley becomes king of the ring and beat mankind. Nineteen minutes and twenty six seconds to win the tournament Meltzer would say the fans were not into this, first half of the match, he says that eventually, they worked hard enough that the crowd started to get behind the match, but quote, they must have seen this as an unworthy, finale Meltzer early gave it three and a half stars. Mankind's crawling to the back. You know, on his hands and knees, this, of course, happens after, you know, an absolute may lay after the match Helmsley's pulling off his mask and all kinds of crazy spots. They're going through tables, and the breaking the sceptre over him. And it's a it's one of the first big beatings that we see mic take in the WWF, and he's doing this, of course, to to get the, the baby face sympathy. What'd you think of the execution? What did you think about the long delayed crowning moment? We're hunter finally became king of the ring. I really liked the match. I thought that hundred Nick did a really good job in Joni. You know, they did almost twenty minutes of intense intense action till the great story, very fist where they added some very unique spots to it. So I like the match. I thought it was really, really good and happy for both guys frankly. So, you know, we knew mic was on his way to being something special without winning the king of the ring tournament. Use. He was getting. They're very, very readily. Very obviously SARS Paula vex concern in his time to come, and he'd earned that opportunity to, to be the king of the ring, and I thought it was a good move on. I never was a big never a proponent of the punishment bullshit. You know, guys the, the, the curtain call thing, and then he's going to be punished and, you know, all this the weather that happened, which I assume it did. Did a lot of ways. It never happened that way, with my mind. I never did anything booking him or whatever I can only book him to where he was on television. So it's like saying what are you putting them in advance not if he wasn't on television in a role that'd be stupid disconnected booking? So, you know, that was a that was not the that was that was not a thing for me. You know, I I you know, I I didn't like it. I didn't I didn't I like the match, but I didn't I didn't like the criticisms of they did too much know may have done too much. He's taken bumps in the apron to the concrete floor, dropping elbows. And there's no way you can protect yourself. He's one of those moves where you create some guys do moves that are unprotected anal. It's just a fate accompli. That at some point you gonna take your last one like that. So we always had to try to restrict mic Beshear to do you know, he's, he's going to do what you gotta do, but I thought they had to help him match. Conrad, and, and I was glad to see how came out. It's one of those matches where a guy can lose is still get over in Foley lost. But his toughness, a story, we told I think, made him even more memorable as memorable if he had won the damn thing. Let's talk a little bit about the post-match where hundred zero always the crown Meltzer would would freestyle. Hey, maybe this means the gimmick is it's going to be king hunter, and Queen China. But the guy who made the crown Andre freight us down at AFX studios in Marietta. Georgia says the three -ality is hundred fucking hated the crown and he would stop at every night. So the WEF kept asking for more he just didn't like the look of it. And as a result would try to turn it into a piece of business where he would destroy it whenever they would have another one for him. You remember hearing that for whatever reason one hundred log we're in the fucking crew? Yeah. Yeah. He didn't like it too. Gimmicky. What new style didn't just didn't fit his persona. You know. So, you know, I, I don't know. Is it? It's one of those things where so much rigged. This guy's got to get a crown road with you. Now, it's like a lot of guys there's giving there's been guys I known the business Conrad that didn't want to be a champion because they carry the bell. They won't take the damn thing through TSA and security and take it with them, so silly shit. But okay. So they thought of it more profit, something to draw money and something real tangible like the fans perceive it as so I guess, another sounds weird. But why the insistence on hunter using the crown he didn't have often do with the year before ninety six? I mean that would have been super goofy, right? Stone coal king Austin, yeah. I, I think he may have thought he was same level of perception. It just didn't fit as as gimmick in his mind's eye in. So he didn't. He didn't use it in therefore, you listen to your talent, you know, I didn't wasn't idea to have him do the crown stuff. I'm with him. It's going to hokey. And so I agreed with the hokey -ness of it, but you should always listen to your talents. Tell you why they're uncomfortable or whatever. And how can make amends to this thing and get back to where we want to be. And I don't know if he was ever asked that question he had to work, very hard to get back into good graces of the of the chairman. Talk to me, a little bit about win because we've covered, you know, the, the curtain call here on the show recently. We've, we've established that he was supposed to be king of the ring in nineteen Ninety-six is going to get that moment here in ninety seven Wendy, you remember it becoming clear that okay we're going with we're going with hunter on this one, I think around this time around this time, you know, the commitment to make him the champion or the king of the ring was, nobody was not met with a lot of, well, the pushed back, you know, I I my roles a different roles creator guys. She I, I wanted him the walk Remo won't into involved. I thought locked his intelligence intellect is I q he was very reliable. You've done a drug and alcohol guy. You always news going to be there, and he had a great skill set. You'll kill Kowalski taught him very, very well, so, but about that time is a year later from all that curtain call stuff and, you know, it's, you know, we all had slips of Saint, let's go. So young guy, you know, get six four. You know, looks looks good and student of the game. Why not invested him? And, and I think I remember signing into a million dollar year downside contract setting on an Ambu case in the back of the Evansville, Rena. Vividly. We signed a contract there, and he got to got he just wanted to make sure that he was getting the same thing that we're paying downside were paying the other top guys. And that was the maximum at that time. The talents are being paid no one in the company at that time, had over a million dollar downside guarantee what you ban. If you had to guess. Oh, Donny, relative time. No, not ninety seven. You guys are Hammerton cash, the ninety nine maybe. Because ninety eight's when he got hot when Austin leaves? Yeah. Yeah. Might have been amount of Conrad's hard to remember these many years back. Sure, I remember being on sitting on the case, some crazy reason I remember being in Evansville. I remember being in the nineties, so good in the fucking day. I don't remember what, what year was, I could go back and look at when we were in Evansville, Reynolds towns, I guess, but, but he was he was a good investment in it. Obviously, it panned out our judgment was right. He was very good investment. And he's panned out and, and the company, a lot of money and himself a lot of money. And he's done. Well marian. Yes. No doubt. Nobody's going to argue that it must go to the next match. Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin that go to a double d q in twenty two minutes and twenty nine seconds normally when you hear double Hugh, you think. Well, that's a fuck finish this is going to get murdered in the observer. But it didn't it got four stars. I guess we should mention here that. Shawn Michaels goes for the super kick. Austin catches. The foot hits the stone cold stunner, but there's no raft to count the pan because wouldn't, you know, it there was a rift, Bob Austin gets up. And he so mad at the groggy raff that it gives him the stonier, and then Michael super kicks, Austin, and has him pinned. But of course, the referee was just pinned. That's referee. Tim white. So a second ref comes in. But instead of counting as Michaels had him pinned he goes to check on the first ref. Why eventually gets up and counts as Michaels has Austin pinned but Austin kicks out. So now Michaels is frustrated that he didn't get the pin when you had him down that long. So he super kicked, the second referee and Earl Hefner a third referee comes in and d Hughes, both referees or both competitors, for attacking different referees, the fans are chanting bullshit here but this is a pretty cool match. I enjoyed it to the all time greats and we're getting a sneak peek of what wrestlemainia is gonna look like what six months later nine months later. Yeah. Yeah. They, they, they the held a match and it's kind of forgotten match. Right. You know, it's not one of those match you, if you think about Sean versus Steve, you'd think about. Do you think about wrestlemainia where Steve shot onto the title? That's the primary thing because in my mind this hell this skewing Qinglin ring match has escaped me I had forgot about that match. I really enjoyed watching it. They told a hell of a story, you know, and then the, the, the Bret Hart heart foundation stuff was all also played in the because Brett was supposed to condemn commentary. We lost we got screwed up on her headset, so they Foley in hunter. Demolished our area that actually screwed up the some headsets, so we didn't have an extra headsets for Bret to us. And there's little dog. They're trained, Vincent about human. I'll take mine. Give I'll give you mine or whatever. But it just never did work out that way. And so read it didn't come out there couldn't do color that it was a chaotic all that was chaos. And the Hart foundation had a lot to do the success of that the shot in. Steve match. I thought this the threat of what they what they're doing. And here they are there. We told we told multiple stories in one match. We've married Stephen Brett back together. We stabbed Sean as issues, obviously, in the heart of the heart foundation low, Sean, and then it got Steven, too. If you've been in the ring, but he's he left to go. Get brett. So it was a. Wild west nights. And I really enjoyed that was a lot of fun. She watched that game folks watch the interview with Brett dead before, and all the interaction of the Hart foundation. And then the postmaster Conrad outline was pretty damn good stuff. And it is show that these to the remember also Sean with the tag team champions, at time, right there. The top tag team in the WWF in there fighting each other because the, the circus, we outlined, so but they had one hell a good match. And if you'd like great wrestling school, philosophies, selling comebacks logic. This is a good one to watch. It's fun to, to see Sean with an edge here because, of course, in this era Austin's running around flip, and everybody off, when Sean flips him off. It gets a reaction from the crowd and a half the crowd at this point love, Sean, and Heather half loves Austin, there's a lot of fan response from this one. So it makes for good viewing check it out. If you're gonna watch one match this week from your way back machine. Go watch this one. Next up, though, the main event, not as good two and a quarter stars in the observer undertaker and Faruk got thirteen minutes and forty three seconds. Of course, undertaker gets the win. Meltzer would say that. The unity had a lot of presence when they started a gimmick, but it's lost a lot of steam, probably because it's been over exposed, what do you think about Peru's performance here and just a gimmick of nation of domination was running its course here? Yeah. Is beginning to run its course a little bit. But I love the if we could have today's world go back today. And then then you can kind of get away with some this, the racial overturn overtones, the Jilin Carlos nineteen sixty eight you know, protests in the Olympics Tommie Smith. And John Carlos their names were they're protesting. I have blacks retreated America where they black, fist reysen ear very memorable so that militants. It was not something new to our psyche. But it had not been played out that definitively in wrestling before. That's why you'll all those years that the wrestling, you go back and remember, the first he'll I remember in wrestling, there was a main event level he'll because he, he was not afraid of not to take the heat of the crowd was Arne lad, most promoters, were were very cautious that they had their black. They're black Representative on the roster. The we have one scenario. Was a baby face because you could stand to get the, you get the, the heat that the white audience might have on black. He'll earning didn't care. He just cared about the green that was money. But I thought that things started to run its course a little bit. You know. But I like the concept of it. I thought it was a really an interesting compelling almost uncomfortable watched, sometimes very controversial. But I don't have time or behind his time Conrad, but for heels it worked out real well, and they had a good cast, you know about deal, Brandon. Good job there. Eventually, you know godfather in that group I thought little clerk Clarence Mason was pretty entertaining. You know, he looked the part he was a lawyer real. So I don't know. I locked the thing and what I what I if I was booking today. What I do it today. Course not. No. But I liked it, then it worked out very well. And Ron Simmons deserve that opportunity after being a WCW world champion. Great athletic athlete. Right. Accolades, and he'd been lulled us Running's a great team player. And he and Bradshaw ata were very, very underrated tag team. We should show. Sometime tag. Teams and talk about the ones I've seen and talked about, and some of our unrated, so maybe it over it, but Ron and Bradshaw are very, very good together. But I thought it was I thought they had a solid undertaker match. It was very ground and pound oriented rape, fundamental very deliberate. But that's what we expected. And that's what we got. And so, you know, I, I didn't I didn't have an issue with. I thought it was pretty good match because again, the booking side of it was very complicated. Because Conrad there's so many moving parts. There's so many variables. There's so many spin off characters in this one match. So I thought that was managed well, and those guys that assaulted sought it out. Well, we hope we had a solid outing here for you today on this episode of grill, JR and want to tell everybody that we've got the rest of this Brent heart, Sean, Michael story. Because the plot thickens, the very next day after king of the ring, ninety seven this is where we see the backstage fi happened in Hartford between Shawn Michaels, and breadth, and we're going to get to that when we cover Canadian stampede, which is our next pay per view, nineteen Ninety-seven and arguably, one of the best pay per views the company ever produced, let's rundown. What's coming up here on the next few weeks with grill, and JR next week we're going to visit one of the biggest moments in JR's career king of the ring nineteen ninety eight, of course, lots of stuff happened on that show and it'll be fun to dig into nine hundred ninety eight but what everyone remembers is that Helena sell Jim is it fair to say that's the match. The is most synonymous with your commentary. Apparently, so I think you're right. So why not get asked? When I do these QNA's and. Opening Sunday, you obvious and these Kyun as together as well. That question almost invariably always posed. You know what's your most memorable match? This always what your favorite match? I don't have a favorite match folks. My most memorable match because I get asked about all time is take her toss mic off top the hell of sale landing in our feet on, but good. Thank god. The concrete floor broke his fall. My gosh. Listen to you next up on June twentieth. We're going to visit king of the ring nineteen ninety four. And this is a match that's not remembered nearly as fondly Jerry Lawler and Roddy piper. Ooh. Not the best mass. Those guys ever had. What are you remember about king of the ring ninety four? I was it? That's a little well it could have been better booked. But we'll talk about it. Those reasons we win all sorts of things that came out of that. We're pretty good. So that's how we do the show. Absolutely. Now the next week we're going to do something kinda find. This is a bit of an experiment, but I'm looking forward to it. We're going to do. I watch along with JR and we're going to do it on June twenty six now what would we be watching? We're gonna watch bash at the beach ninety six I know what you're thinking. Hey, that's a WCW show Jim wasn't there. That's correct. It's the show, our whole Cogan turns. He'll and the wrestling world changes forever. Don't be fun to watch that with JR and get his commentary in his opinion on what the other side was doing on July fourth. We're going to visit great American bash. Nineteen ninety a very patriotic day sting wins the world title draped in the American flag year, he finally bests the nature. Boy, RIC flair to become world champion on July eleventh, we'll talk about vengeance two thousand four which will be. Triple h in Crispin wa on July teeth will pick up the story we just left off the day, Canadian stampede, nineteen Ninety-seven and then arguably one of the best shows in wrestling history, certainly, one of the best WCW, pay per view of all time, July twenty fifth will be great American bash nineteen Eighty-nine with Rick flair and Terry funk on top and man, that's hard to beat isn't it? Yeah. Man. That's a good stuff. Every all those your is your mission of the those like these, these flashes of color, and a pageantry and memories in smells, and feels all come rushing back. So we got a lot of great things talk about, and the neat thing is that being able to go back and retrieve all my memory loss, memory, or forgotten memory like I did this week with this show, specifically was as fun to do. I, I enjoy doing that. You know, you gotta remember Connie, that's I was so busy, all those years that I didn't go back. I don't I cannot tell you. You can tell ya not gonna take conclusively on in my hall years WWE with my schedule as it were, I never one time went back and watched a pay per view, or a raw or anything I was on innocent. Tired? He never did do it. It just ahead. I didn't have time. Are the are the desire. And I was always my own worst. If in critic, I detest sometimes the things I said, in how I present it in my tone, inflection, you though, a lot of folks liked it. Sometimes I was very hard to please. So going back now watching as a little older. Not quite not in not in the, the gun to my head outta love it. I love on. I'm back being go JR the wrestling fan God dang I love that man, we appreciate you. Joining us here on the show. Tele friend grill JR's here to stay. We've got a hit on our hands. We preciado all your support leave us a review and offering it hit the subscribe button and tell your friends about king of the ring ninety seven and be sure to remind them that we're not just talking about the show. We're talking about everything that's happening in the world wrestling federation during the months of may and June, and we'll keep that journey going next week. We're look forward to seeing you next Thursday and every Thursday at six AM on your drive to work right here on grill in jail. Or.

Conrad Thompson Shawn Michaels Sean WWF Vince Brett undertaker wrestling S T. And Paul bearer Vince McMahon Mick Foley Jeff hardy Dave Meltzer Ahmed Johnson Kane Owen impalement Jim Glenn
The Curtain Call

The Jim Ross Report

2:12:20 hr | 1 year ago

The Curtain Call

"Hey, it's Conrad Thompson. You're listening to brilliant JR going on Jim Ross. How are you? I'm good, man. I'm just trying to wear these the stores really through Oklahoma. Just another day in the in the tornado belt. Yeah, we get we our fair share those here now Obama, but man, we tore tore NATO through tunes last week. We were the top rated wrassling podcast and all the land last week. I think people were excited about our debut episode. What was the feedback? You got oh is overwhelming. The heartwarming actually really good saw very positive. Appreciate the fans listening, telling her friends, we haven't show and Zo here today. We are episode number two and kick some more audio ass. I'm excited about it. If you missed Tele friend, the story of JR jumping ship from the WCW organization to the WWF is available now in the archives anywhere you enjoy podcast and any day now thinks Arnie. Happened. The channel is now called grilling JR, but you don't have to go anywhere else. If you've been listening to the Jim Ross report here on Westwood One. His the exact same feed and work cited to keep the train on the tracks today because we're talking about the curtain call, and this is one of the more critical moments in wrestling a lot of things are going to change. And we're gonna talk about what happened what good of happened supposed to happen. What wasn't supposed to happen? But it's a pretty interesting night for professional. Wrestling may sixteenth nineteen Ninety-six Madison Square Garden, New York City, and you told me off air a little bit of trivia about this particular garden show and yourself. Yeah. You know, when I went to work for Vince in ninety three soon, thereafter, some exits and in reentry and so forth. He wanted me to you know, I started booking of the cards the matches at the the live events, and he called me one time he said. Hey, JR, meet me at the office, or maybe some really at home someplace that. And you rather garden with me, and I didn't always go on the garden. So I said, okay. You wanna go the gardens of begin? He said, no, well, what do you wanna go? So that we all I need to know right there that I need to go to every garden show. And it was the right thing to do quite frankly, I was just being lazy? You are eight or ten hours a day. Then you go work another several hours to the at the at an event, it makes it for a long day. But the my luck if you wanna call it luck that day, I had the flu and Ananta flew pretty much all week hacking and coughing and sneezing anybody knows the legends of the great, Vincent, man. You know that he's not a he's not a hacker or call for our sneeze person. You don't do it. And you don't wanna be around it sending cursing himself violently when Leeson Leeson east, and it's a making some new guy came to meeting. They sneezed every. The look at the guy they looked vents see what he was going to do because they knew he didn't approve of sneezing. So the sneezing rule got me out of going to the garden on that particular night. So ironically, even though I got a wealth of BS onus thing an information so forth. I did not go to the garden that night. And I was not present for the carton call but subsequently after that event. I felt like I was there and probably should've been there in hindsight based on what happened. So that was a it was a strange day, it it was all a good house card was strong in the town that was over and and lack a lot of a roster currently are offshore actually sold out the guard few times so in any event, I wasn't there more. How do I still have memories of it? Let's talk a little bit about the garden. You mentioned you know, that very early in your on there. You were. Told why wouldn't you wanna go to the garden, and you understood that that meant it was priority events, can you sort of put that in context for us what the garden meant events in the Moran family. Well, it started with is grandfather, you know, Jess McMahon. And then played it forward with his dad. Vincent j McMahon. The the irony. Always visit junior senior neither neither of them were against our seniors juniors. They had different names Kennedy for the the current guru. And his dad was a visit James McMahon. It was such a big part of their of their business and the foundation their business if you have success in mass garden, you had leverage in negotiating all these other venues in the in the northeast region of the United States and the garden was is was and will always be never wanna rain. Into world. So if you'd make it anywhere as they say about New York in the gardens to civically here. So they the family close to the family. They it was a family tradition. You know, it was face where even Shane Stephanie went when they were kids go over from time to time. So it was just a family thing. And it was big the company is the backbone it was the market that they then one market for WWW af. And and quite frankly, it's still is your your entertainment business or you're in the sports business in New York. Whether we like it or not whatever is a mecca and still is that way. I guess we should mention this Sunday show, Madison Square Garden eighteen thousand eight hundred fans and attendance sixteen thousand five hundred sixty four paid. It is a full sell out the card was the Bushwacker defeating Marginean leave Cassidy Savia Vega. Getting a win over Bob back land. I'm Johnson going to get a win over Davy voice. Myth by the Q and Owen. Hart interferes, Steve Austin is gonna pin. Jake Roberts, the ultimate warrior is going to get a win over heart Vader's can opinion SUNA the Godwin's would defeat skip in zip to win the tag titles. And then, of course, to top matches the ones that we're really here talk about hunters Townsley is going to pin razor Ramon with the pedigree. And Shawn Michaels is going to get a win over diesel in a steel cage match late in the bout Davey boy. Smith, briefly interferes and prevents the champion from escaping over the top moments later as diesel is still knocked out Michaels posing with title belt, razor, Ramon comes out, hugs the. Fiene raises his hand. Of course, these are baby faces are heroes Michaels. Then revived diesel the bad guy opponent and way for someone else to join them in the ring. And then hunter soundly appeared and hugged Michaels before all four men embraced and hailed each other in their arms. It's Kevin Nashes last match Madison Square Garden for seven years that his last match in the WB for six years. So that's directly from the history of WBZ dot com. But we're gonna talk about all the back story of how it got here. And there's lots of twists and turns along the way there's been tons of debate. And discussion about win the attitude era officially started. You know, did it start with the Montreal screw job that start with the X? Did it start with Austin and Mike Tyson the night after the Royal rumble in nineteen ninety eight. I don't know that this is really the start of the attitude era, but it is certainly a shift. In professional wrestling with knowing what's about to happen on the other channel with these two characters who are leaving the territory, there's a a major shift in professional wrestling is that fair to say, absolutely. Yeah. And I don't know it's arguable. What started the attitude era Conrad I could make a story a good case for several things. But all everything you mentioned certainly would be a candidate. But without a doubt the curtain call ushered in a new philosophy to some degree of of the of the wrestling. It was really that behind the scenes thing pull the curtain back and dropping the wall except cetera. You know, it was just a it was a different time in the business, and again as we mentioned moments ago, but the garden if it happened in, you know, all due respect to Moines or Oklahoma City or some normal guards, not normal. It's the it's the biggest. Thing in the in the in the business for for wrestling, or boxing, or concerts, or whatever. But nonetheless, it was the garden, and that's what made really so impactful to me is it happened in the biggest market country in the biggest arena country from Spain about blah. So there's a good story being made. I think about that. When the attitude air started, I'm with you though. However, I didn't really perceive the curtain call starting the attitude era, but I could see a contributing to the start of the attitude air and a lot of that is based around Kevin Nash. And Scott hall. Let's touch on that both of these guys come huge stars in the WBF. But before that happened. They were struggling a non in WCW nineteen Ninety-one you were still there at the time. Of course, Kevin Nash was steal half of the master blasters tag team. And then he was is. And then he was any Vegas and Scott hall was known as the Dom. Instead whenever with these guys in WCW, obviously got to know them on a more personal level. Maybe you guys best to France. But you knew them beyond their is character saw their size. He saw their ambition. Do you know that these guys are going to be big stars? They just didn't have the right packaging at the time. I think I felt that because they had that that luxury of size, you know, Kevin own seven feet in Scott about six six seven think that sewer not. They're big guys in big guys. Turn promoters heads a big guys wealth, the airports and get noticed Emily or not that's one of the yardsticks promoters us time and time again well that guy walked through the airport. You sure so look at him and that kind of deal so that was our and both of them. Are Scott hall was very -ccomplish worker in really really a bright as far as the. Processes within the business. He understood the business very very well and had a good head for finishes and things of that nature. Kevin I met Kevin when he was working as a bouncer at one of the stir clubs there. I think maybe cheetah not sure. But anyway in Atlanta who are frequent time time time being unmarried. And I just you know, he was a big good looking guy seven feet tall and he stands out in. So we got to talk it. And then he got somebody else met him. A thank maybe maybe Jerry Briscoe or somebody met him as well got hooked up with the WC Doug do people. And so he could start training and still keep his job there at the at the club. So, but Kevin I had a better relationship because then I do Scott. No particular reason other than you know, Kevin was not on the road. And he can really talk. He's a great conversationalist. He was funny is glib. And he had that look. So consequently when. I started doing my radio show WSB, you know, Tom time I'd bring in gas at their local and so forth. He he was my here's one of my regular guests of my show. And I remember dusty man, this guy can talk. He's he's very good. But so I was trying to convince anybody that would listen it. He had a lot of potential, but is what going to get it in by us is also ironically for Kevin another failed attempt by WCW at that time out WWE, the WWE, and that ain't gonna happen. So that was kind of the situation there Conrad, I think but them solid guys in that regard. But I was much closer to Canada was Scott while Scott hall comes in to the WWF as a heel in nineteen Ninety-two, but quickly becomes one of the more popular characters in the company. You wins the intercontinental title four times, which I believe was record at the time when Nash comes in. He has no trouble becoming a triple crown winner wins the intercontinental title, and then the tag titles, Shawn Michaels and even the world title. So come nineteen Ninety-six. These guys are big stars there. Well, established main players and behind the scenes you've heard all the rumor and innuendo there. Half of the click or I guess, you know, two fifths we round out the click with Shawn Michaels. Sean waldman. And of course, later hunters Helmsley, and there's been talk that from time to time that hang out with Justin credible Aldo Montovia PJ Walker whatever you wanna call him and Louis coli or going to do another episode. Another time about the click. I'm sure but how was the? The office. Not Vince McMahon not Bruce Prichard, but JR your office at the time. What was your impression of the click because they've been villainous over the years and people have pretty strong opinions. You love them or you hate them. And there's been lots of talk about, you know, a special relationship that existed for whatever reason between Shawn Michaels. And Vince McMahon were they pay in your ass? Did you fall on the loved him or hated him son? I I liked the entertainment, and they were good to me, they're respectful believe it or not, Sean, Sean, I had a relationship going back to his first territory when he worked for Cowboys and Jose Lataria got Sean job, mid, Sal. So I'm Sean tire career literally. And of course, Motorola chevik. Kevin, you know, we had locked common than looking lack lack. Looking naked women. We also enjoy sports. He's a great sports fan play ball. First of all, she know SEC at Tennessee. So issues to these cats, and quite frankly, Sean, Kevin, we're kind of the leaders of that do not and maybe Kevin Morel anybody. The other Waldman got come adopted talented son of a gun is a got adopted by the group. Sometimes I think he would probably have mitt for their comedic entertainment because it passed around the chop your cake. And then funny things happen time time, so I didn't have any issues. Conrad I know more issues, and I would have normally with anybody else. Either a payoffs too low or they needed a off or whatever whatever same stuff. No new talents have issues one of the two CS almost invariably to are cash in creative. So when you hear about arrest or having an issue even today, especially today is generally about while TC's. So they would have an issue. About what to season time at time. I found out the way to tell them what's going on. Or what communicate with them better said is be honest it upfront and cut to the chase. And no BS because they're too good of BS or some cells that they saw coming. So I didn't have major issues with them. My major issues. I don't their major where the fact that they test off some other guys from time to time and still the other guys go into in dealing with these these guys, Sean group hunter all cats. They bitch about it. And so all those things linger and faster. So we try to address issues in that regard. But they were they weren't as bad to me as allegedly they were other people. So I'm glad you brought that up because lots of other guys have come out in the shoot interview era of the late nineties and early two thousands, and they would, you know, make no bones about the fact that they felt like their career wasn't when it could have been because the click interfere the click. Went to the office. And and turned Vance JR whoever against them. Remember there being a time where you know, a Kevin Nash, Scott hall came to you and said, hey, we don't like working with this guy. He's the shit's take him off the card trying to think there might have been a raise some bookings here there. But hey, here's the thing about those guys. They had a great feel for the business. I believe at that time that WW e WWF needed to make some philosophical changes in our presentation. In other words, that knew we needed to I thought to get away from all these outlandish Ireland characters that basically cater to a, you know, youthful demo, which means that you're kind of turn your back on your mail eighteen to thirty four eighteen to forty nine demo, which is not turn your back might be too strong a word, but it just you're catering to your cater to their children. The little brothers will. Whatever may be. So I was always thinking that we need to change because you know, the CO saying, you know, you you do the same thing over and over don't expect a different result. It's the same stuff. Right. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result there go like you Conrad she their kids, which you give Rady school. So anyhow that was kind of the deal, man. I just they had a good sense of good pulse. For the for the or the business was in an happened to coincide with quote, I believe should have was a necessary change, which would foster us, even though we didn't know the destination at the time to the official attitude era being real working on, you know, accelerating real personalities into their TV character people feel like they're not being worked as badly or are from Italy. So they they are that they were what I was looking for in the sense of can we can we get a different attitude? And so, and I think that's what they brought to the table. They saw that need for change and they saw because of their paychecks. You know, they wanted to make bigger money, and and draw more people and what we were doing. I don't know what's going to draw more people. Let's fast forward here to March of nineteen ninety six Meltzer wrote report while nothing is official. Scott hall is expected to join w w after his contract and legal commitments with the WB end in late. May he would write quote in a situation spoken of with some disdain by WWF CEO, Vince McMahon, Scott halston telegram to man on February twenty first officially giving his ninety day notice that he was leaving the company on the same day hall was suspended by the WBF for six weeks for reason, theoretically having nothing to do with him giving notice causing him to miss scheduled appearances this past weekend, the suspension take him a few days past wrestlemainia, which hall was no doubt counting on as his last big payday before leaving. Let's talk about that. There's lots to break breakdown here. It's been no secret that he was unhappy with the WWF in recent months, he wasn't really pleased with the decision back your. Creative to have him feud with Golda vetoed that concept and and and seeing through in favor of working with hunter. Her sounds Lee or one two three kid. Who's also unhappy with the baby bottle and diaper angle leading into the pay per view. And he had some family pressure at home as well. And in the middle of all this. He's got an offer from WCW, and it's guaranteed money and allegedly easier schedule as well. So if I'm going to be home more, and I'm going to spend more time with my family, and I'll have less road expenses. It can maybe repair some challenges I have a home, and I can make more money and it's a win win. That's of the narrative that's out there you were there. What can you tell us? I think you make a good case. It's honest. And it's it's a is truthful. I my only issues the issue Scott leaving was not debatable to me. I thought that you know, he his Scott had issues of home and the schedule that we were utilizing at that time was very very aggressive. And of course, you get into the same odeal fan off off-season. Okay. You know, that that also as the things that blown out proportion in my view. Here's why you got a great big roster. It's a matter of it's matter of scheduling, and if you want somebody had time off, and you just book it in any figure it out and you get your instead. And then created that would raise hail because my what available but the bottom line is. She couldn't couldn't run the horses today hard. You know, you can't just run until they drop, and that's kind of. Situation we were in. So he makes you make about a points about Scott hall's deal. I think two things one is he wanted to make t wanna to try to keep this family together which was challenging for him with his lifestyle in the job that he had scheduled to Kip anyone to make more money. So here we go back cash is one of the two CS again cash this time and some created I thought that the Scott hall Golda smashed but have been probably off the hook because both of them can work like crazy and they match up. Well, and I thought that would be a great match on a way to Sean match one hundred match or kid match, whatever it may be. I don't know. But I thought that was probably a little bit. It didn't do Scott any favors because he didn't wanna work anybody, but his buddies seemingly. So I'm that did he many favors in the locker room. But I certainly understand the fact of negotiating for a better deal financially and with more time at home, although saying she said. So I wasn't surprised that he was wanting to leave because you know, one thing about Scott Scott's a very vocal guy. And he's a good communicator. So he hasn't Mona's mind you're gonna you're gonna get figured out. He doesn't he's not one of those guys beat around the Bush. So I knew talking to that he wasn't happy. Because again, the payroll TAOs I was involved in that with Manson at that point in time, and it was hard. It was hard for all of us to you know, you couldn't create new money 'cause houses weren't drawing we started on a little bit. It started in pretty good. But around that time, but I was not surprised whatsoever. I believe quite frankly, take a trip Conrad. I believe in hindsight that Scott hall made the right decision in going WCW. And I believe that it was the smartest thing for him to do. I just believe that they're they was a better way of carrying that neces-. Looking back at it that you know, he knew what he wanted to do. And this thing like, we got the, you know, when he sent the telegram to get business notice, you know, it could have been done in person the previous two or three days that same week that wasn't done. And that kind of that was kind of annoying in that regard. But, you know, be that as may I think at the end of the day whether the right procedures protocols, not he got he made the right call. I guess we should mention that melts. Word ri- win the office crew returned after talking about from a tour after booking Ramon in a strong position for the future. They had a telegram from him giving notice. So it feels like you guys were trying to I don't piece him and make him happy and acquiesce his demands. And then he slides the sin. But apparently that a lot of that stems from the idea that he earned less in nineteen ninety five. He did ninety four melted ride. It's believed here in two hundred seventy grand in nineteen ninety five well down from what he earned ninety four which was supposed to be more than four hundred thousand dollars. I mean, if the shoe's on the other foot, hypothetically goodwill JR might be looking for a new deal to right? It's because it's about the money in, you know. Amateur status. We started taking a paycheck. So that'll count can go to Olympic anyway. So I I think that he made the right call and Dan, right? You know, I can hey recently. I've I can relate to that. Because me sending Awa was along those lines as far as moving to a new location. Hang your shingle and somebody else's building. Because a lot of it was about opportunity and the money. I think that stays in Scott's career money was the paramount thing he had a young family and again somewhat dysfunctional at times. I think is I think the time has passed prove that out. But yeah, he he made the right call as I said earlier it just how he delivered. The message probably could have been done a little bit more efficiently in a little bit more. I don't know if I want to respectfully that's right, analogy or not. But that was the only thing I saw that probably was. A little bit off Kelder was how you went about it. Let's touch base briefly on what the original plan for many twelve was. Of course, we know we got a Hollywood back lot brawl between gold us and Roddy piper. But the original plan as written in the observer was supposed to be live via satellite as part of the wrestlemainia show and it with the radical take place in Miami on downtrodden street, and it's going to be similar to the the way they did the uncensored show WCW where you had a cut away match for Dustin Rhodes and blacktop bully this Miami streetfight was the original idea did that plan change once he gave notice or did Scott hall, not wanna do that prior to the notice Scott wanna work so at any environment, and you know, in that would have been featured match real menu. It's probably got nice pay day. Unfortunately, it didn't happen for him in. Because he didn't want. He didn't want to work with with destined. So again, and I don't I don't think it really so much about him not wanting to work a desk didn't like Dustin. He may not have been in Namur where the persona of the gold us indraught shenice character. However, you wanna describe him. But I think the main thing is he just he still was held been on working with his his friends. And I think maybe in the back of his mind, he knew that his days there may be numbered because he's going to be trying to find the spot to go contract was gonna come up for renewal. And and you know, there's a case to be made. Also, we had those in most of those contracts are no guaranteed to any degree. I think you know hundred fifty dollars a night for you know, six or ten nights ridiculous. But that's everybody. Everybody. Everybody signed it. Whether they liked it or not because it was an opportunity must've. Okay. What the hell I'm gonna. I'm gonna be healthy. I'm going to work. I'm going to be a good soldier, and I'm gonna make a lot of money here because going to be on the road a lot. But you still got draw houses having I asked every eighteen inches, and we weren't doing that. Very well. So, you know, the roster just gotten stale and and mundane and we we had a ton of guys that found their comfort zone. They were in the WWE WWF time man have good as this. My lifelong dream, and they're almost marks themselves some of those guys, but the money was up there what they want to be and what they needed to be. So that's where I think Scott, I think it was all about the money end of the day all about the money. And he knew that he could force his hand to make you know, to to to to make sure that Scott got booked guys only only the guys he wanted to. I didn't. I never talk to the only the only other time. I heard about stone coal told me one time we him with the events assistance with Marc Mero in LA. And that was that was didn't go Royal and stated noisy work got the building. And got the building as workmen Maryland honor. Jack Lanza called me are at one of the agents. He said our boy stone cold test J R dot com. He didn't wanna work in Maryland night. Okay. And what else? Well, you hit him going on in the middle card. So he could get on the road early to TV. And I said, yeah, he said he don't like that. Either. Anything today? Does he I said, okay? Let me give you give me a second. So I read the card got Austin other Ponant it didn't work marrow and he didn't anyone on last. So I saw him at crtv. I said lip this work Mero. I wasn't my ridge lie. I'm not this past bucket. Was I tell you. And so he didn't want to do that. He said, but I work at the thing. Stuck out to me was I worked my whole goddamn live to be able to close the show Ida had WW F event. And we're in the second biggest market nation, and you guys want may to go on in the middle card. And I said I said I'm going to close the show period. Sounds good to me trying to be, you know, healthy out here. You know knows no big argument, but that was his cO contention. But an all the years I was there other than Scott and Dustin in Steven Martin Mero. There was no issues in that respect. So it was kind of unusual in Vincent take well to this too in Vince on only got the report about Stephen Mary said what happened Namara Austin Austin work with him. So that's pretty simple. And he's he's becoming a massive star in you mentioned earlier about Sean this great relationship. Every owner slashed Booker. Has in the past Chinnery had a great relationship or their top stars. That's that was an age old deal. And I remember watching bringing in top guys for booking meetings to help them their program their their their matches. So because watts theory was if you get these these guys could be a part of the of the problem in the solution more specifically, then all of a sudden you're going to be little doing business with him a lot easier smoothly. Let them be part of the idea and they'll execute better. So MRs to me, so that's that's kind of how that worked witness acquiesce in kissing ass talented at an issue, but you gotta figure pick your spots. Conrad top guys they're going to they're going to be treated differently. This is not a democracy. And as you think it's going to arresting block around and everybody's treated saying your shit. Just didn't work that way. Okay. Do you need to take a time out here to tell everybody that it can be a little frustrating, especially if you're in a hurry or running late find yourself at a railway crossing waiting for a train. And if the signals are going the trains, not even there yet, and you can feel bit tempted to try and sneak across the tracks. We'll don't ever trains are often going a lot faster than you expect them to be and they can't stop even if the engineer hits the brakes right away. It can take them over a mile stop that train by that time. What used to be your car could just be across talk metal used to be you. Well, better not to think about that. The point is you can't know how quickly the train will arrive the train can't stop, even if it's easy and the result as disaster. So if the signals are on the train is on its way in you. You just need to remember one thing. Stop trains can't. Scott hall says he got the offer from WCW and signs a letter of intent with them. And that's when he gave the ninety day notice to the and to your point W contracts where one year and the automatically rolled over. If he didn't give a ninety day notice not necessarily saying that you were leaving dating that you didn't want your contract or all over. And of course, Scott all had that same type of contract, you Luder to it's a one year deal keeps rolling over ten matches the year one hundred and fifty bucks a match. So you're guarantee is only fifteen hundred dollars a year. And Scott what's say that? He didn't wanna leave aged in one contract to roll over. And he wanted to sit down and have a serious talk with Vince about money, and he felt like he was growing as performer and more part of the company, but his pay it started plateau. So he goes to aunts and asked him what he needs to improve. Is it my in ring work is Mike work convinced that something like, no, you're one of the best. We got and hall said, well, I'm just curious because my pay. Started a plateau, and I wanna make the big money like the guys who preceded him and Scott hall floss to Connecticut for a meeting, and he says he went in prepared and he told Vince the he looks his merchandise statements. And if we move the decimal point over about one spot would the McMahon family really notice because the hall family really would notice and vincit. Nope. I'm not going to do that. I give you the same deal. I give take her and showing and Kevin. Nope. Not gonna do it. And then he asked if he could have four or five weeks year to go to Japan and get big paydays over there. Now. You're listening to this. That is something that happened a long time ago with American stars the STAN Hansen's of the world brody's of the world. They'd Grover make ten grand a week or something for ten weeks year and that adds up. And of course is having nothing to do with this. The idea is, you know, Scott thinks he's worth a million dollars a year. That's what he wanted to sit down and ask for any felt like if I can't get that at least giving opportunity to go work, and in Japan, and aren't some big money. They're Vince shoots that down to are you privy to this meeting? Are you in the meeting? Do you just hear about it? After the fact, no, I'm I'm I'm privy to it. My role was not at that point. In time was not clear JJ was still involved to JJ Dylan. And so I was very much aware of it. Theory pretty much in a nutshell. Visit wanted bus system up. He had a system that was that he felt like was was working and didn't want to change it. And the fact that he probably thought, you know, can't speak for vents. But he thought that Scott was not worth the main dollars. So main dollars nineteen thousand I think it's nineteen thousand and change a week. So that's a lot of cash, and he's he's he didn't want to change that situation. I think he's I think he willing to get Scott raise. But the issue of the guaranteed contracts, all that all came back to you know, if you're not going to guaranteed contracts. You can't say, well, you're gonna make this. Okay. Then you gotta write that down for you. Gotta put that on paper because I don't believe you in most restaurants are distrustful in and little bit paranoid. And they don't trust quote, unquote, the office. So I think that's where that was Scott school guy like that he had to. Mindset the Kevin did because Scott have been around a lot longer and have been playing in a bit in the game longer. But yeah, I think I was aware of the meeting it didn't go. Well. And you know, I don't know that either one of either guy events are Scott did says any great favours. By having that meeting in it in going away. It did based on how things worked out. I guess we should mention here that the news comes down about the failure. When Scott hall at a spot show in New Jersey him and undertaker supposed to work twice on that show because showing and diesel weren't there. So when Scott's in the back tone agree comes up to him and says they wanted him to call the doctor which he he's always referred to as the piss doctor in Toronto called. But the doctor wasn't home. He didn't answer. Scott hall goes back to dress for the show. Ingred comes back to him and says, hey, they want you to leave the building and hall tells Greer that the results of the test which were six weeks old was supposed to be confidential and he says to Korea, you know, the results of my test before I do. And then he says, I guess the got my notice. So let's talk about this. You know, Scott clearly feels like that if he had failed a drug test. It's been insinuated over the years that it would have been for marijuana. And at the time the company was not always taking a hard stance on that. But now magically when they get the notice he suspended for six weeks, and this is an old test. And it's not like he just took the test. The test was six weeks old. And now he suspended for six more weeks. You had to handle some of this. I'm sure are really happened. Only flex test. And I'm not so sure Conrad of how long is this is not like an episode of law and order if you don't get the results back in before commercial break on some of that stuff processes and procedures to get your results were not quite as obviously as advance as they are now. So I don't really know at that six weeks kinda normal. It seems like it was a lot more normal than people perceive it to be as obviously a lot of folks would rather write about a conspiracy and talk about that. And I can understand. Why is very coincidental in that regard is coincidental. I don't know maybe, but I do know that he that medically and officially he flown to test. And then when the results came back. You know, that's when the nationalist made it coincided them giving his notice some people never you'll never convince some people that that there are two different issues. I think people are gonna be always think. Well, you know, we screwed Scott hall. I don't I didn't receive that to be the case. But obviously when he flunked test there's gotta be some penalty for it. And and that was how that went down. So in six weeks. I don't think six weeks was a. The station was was an on yielding kind of the normal deal. So, you know, I don't think that it was a I don't think it was conspiracy. But again, it certainly has a lot of the components of one. Of course McMahon as quoted in the pro wrestling torch, just saying there's nothing I can do about that coincidence people draw their own conclusions. And there's nothing I can do about that. I'm a sitting duck. Anyone can say anything they want about it. But one thing is for sure no one has anything to worry about if they don't test positive pretty well, take take dares. He's he's right about that built those statements again, you will. But was he telling the truth, I know the oppression? All I remember is that those failed drug test. And I believe it was for marijuana. But I can't remember that far back. I can't imagine being anything else, which if you think about it. What ludicrous? I think these somebody's marijuana tests are Dundas for political correctness now by companies, and they're they're worried. They're scared. They're shadow about what they're they're public image is going to be without knowing that you're God damn. Wrestling show. It's always the professional. Wrestling shows are going to have a certain image and certain baggage that travels along with them any down thing you can do about it. But I think that you know, just unfortunate have worked out, but it certainly loaded a wagon, Scott and made the company look bad. And but I'll I can take from experience. There was a drug test. And as protocol would have it for seizures have it generally the six-week penalty is normal. And as soon as you can get them off the road and start there, and the reason for that was you wanna start the suspension early. So you get back earlier you wait several weeks. And also, you got more time to add on or sentiment home. It's not a good thing. So that's kind of where I see that thing. I I've I don't believe it was a conspiracy. But I can I'm not gonna make an argument argue anybody that does because it there are a lot of elements there that would cost one. Racin highbrow. Let's keep going here. I do wanna mention that as as luck my habit. Kevin Nash has his contract expire six days apart from Scott hall. So let's switch gears to Kevin Nash melted report in early March. Kevin Nash, officially gave notice that he would be leaving the world. Wrestling federation to accept an offer from WCW in a phone. Call to Vince McMahon at ten fifty AM on March fifth. Here's a question. Thank you who the hell knew who had Milton the phone. Call came at ten fifty AM. I always been fascinated by that. So here's the answer. Here's my question to you. Who was the stooge? I don't know. I I don't know that I remember telling me in others. I'm sure that Kevin ashes at was giving his notice ahead, given his notice it was going to leave and look we'll be. Well, the valedictorian of the Sherlock Holmes detective school figure out if you're leaving WWE, and you make a living as a pro wrestler, the only other face, you can go to the money, you seek is WCW and the Turner money. So that was not that was the laya. So we knew that that was his destination. His contract was coming up. Nothing. I can do about it. And I'm sure Kevin sit down with Vance. Look at a new deal. He's gonna want somewhere in that million dollar range. And we had a lot of guys established guys on Ross minute guys. You know at that time. I don't know. I don't think take made a million dollars a year. I don't think Shawn Michaels contracts, guaranteed from me dollars a year. So they're asking for something that in as I as I recall Conrad that didn't even exist breaking on kinds of things and ceilings, and and all these all the stuff. I dunno. I Kevin McKenna's of very monetary. Dude chemists plays stock market. He's he's well read. He's talent Kevin's motivation was money. And I'm sure he would tell you that also, you know, he wanted, you know, you won't have more influence in his created cetera et cetera. But our always felt like he had the relationship the events that he had influence on how he was booked in the crater that he did. And who he worked with the big shows that cetera. So. I thought that was that we've been kind of a week out. So I think comes back to one thing cash in the cash for a guy that was at the top of the card the champion. Triple crown winner who seven feet tall and ca- talk was he he setting a workable spot. And as it worked out he cast internist pot. I guess we should mention here that. The report observer is the Nash is going to be taking a three year deal from WCW ranging from four fifty seven fifty depending on who you believe the notice, of course, comes less than two weeks after Scott hall gave his notice and Nash says that the motivation for this came from a conversation with Scott hall where it was said that he was making above sting money. And Nash says that amongst the boys sting money was a phrase did you ever hear about sting money course, top guy there, you know, in WCW for a good while many years? He was he was the, you know, he was he was the guy staying was. And an end is quite frankly us staying was probably the only I can't think of another star the WCW actually developed that had the tenure in the impact that Steve Morton, data stay. So he got he got top bread. Don't your flares sink conversations there at the same time. Yes, thing money was a that was just a slang that meant, you know, getting paid as much as anybody else in the company, and that's what they guys wanted Nashes at first he didn't want to leave the company because he was loyal events. Because Vince was the first guy I really believed him him as a wrestler, you know, the previous incarnations in his life being things like Vinnie Vegas, and is so he tells McMahon, hey, if you're willing to match the offer all stay and McMahon refuses because Vint says if I do that for you that I've got to do that for all the other wrestlers, and we just are not in the financial position to do that. True statement, absolutely statement, Conrad just I if you the president of guaranteeing that level money based on where we were financially in the company got understand that in the mid nineties there, many of us that worked W w f took massive take cuts. I got my pay cut fifty grand a year believe it was. Meeting. I had with Vanson HR lady. Lisa wolf. So aptly named but nonetheless, the, you know, I had a meeting less than five minutes. You know, we're we're going to amass all the wrestling people to take a cut in pay in. And I ask you do same thing. But if you stay with me, I will you won't regret it I'll make it up to you without anything written down or guaranteed. Not even a handshake this word. And and that's how that worked out in any also said, by the way in if JR if you wanna leave I won't hold it to your contract. I understand you got you know. You know, this is not what you signed on for an I, you know, I was willing to you know, me. And Jan Jan our there. And we were you know. Well, Jan was there yet she was still kind of in limbo with may. But we're working on it. But nonetheless, that's kind of where that was, you know, just he everybody got it. And that's what prompted JJ to delayed, and he got JJ had a big nut special needs child. Young children younger wa- young wife, a lot of obligations because no finer guy that I ever worked with in wrestling and JJ Dylan honest. Loyal, but he had he needed money for his care of kids. And when it got cut in pay that crippling. So you know, he he left. Remember, he laughed Bruce or in South Africa doing a show. And so that's kind of where we are there. Conrad I think, you know, these Kevin in Kevin's motivation was the cash in Vince, good not upset and blow up the entire infrastructure based on our our revenues. This. What's going to happen? Let's talk about the other piece. He said a minute ago. It was all about the to seize the cash and the creative. So he knows he's got this money off for he knows. He's got a guarantee he doesn't really want to take it. We get to the February ninety six pay per view in your house rage in the cage and Kevin Nash as diesel, of course, as challenging Bret Hart for the world title and a cage match during the planning of the match. Nash said the finish was he was gonna hit Bret with Jack knifed power bomb and the undertaker was going to come from under the ring and pull diesel back under with him as that happened. Brett would escape the cage and win the match doing the finish this way when add a lot of heat to diesel and undertake wrestling twelve because it would look like undertaker Costes the world title, just as diesel had cost undertaker the world title the prior month at Royal rumble. But national Brett didn't wanna do it that way and Nash has been on record saying the entertainer got mad when Brentwood speaking about the finish and said something like mud. Fucker everything isn't about you brand. Of course, took it to vents vent size with champion. Brett, they don't do the power bomb as Nash wanted to do. And after the match he still upset about Vince signing with brat. So Kevin Nash goes to Scott hall and says I'm fucking common. Do you? Remember there being some sort of pushback about the finish at the February paper view. Yeah. I do. And I also remember talking to Kevin I don't if they use this masher, not I said, Kevin, you know, is the quick one the OPEC Patterson quick one can be applied here. And I said something as simple as an inside cradle are small package that we call. It could be something like that. He said what people believe? Yeah. Chemists real hold. Kevin was a basketball player. He wasn't her wrestler. And you know, you're talking to an amateur wrestler. They know you they know that those type maneuvers are legitimate penny combinations. And this logical if you understand the basis of that. But I remember talking to him about that. And he came around and understood it he just had to have communication. He he was so highly so intelligent big Ike. Hugh that he he read through the Bs and clear out the smoke and see what they're and that's why I got along with him. You know, I didn't BSN we we had a good relationship. We enjoyed each other's company more often than not, and you know, he was entertaining to me. And and I just you know, but he didn't have that. He didn't have the product knowledge at that time that Scott hall did Scott have been around longer have more more miles on the journey than Kevin not to say the Kevin didn't catch up and arguments are passed got or anybody else around with what he is booking beliefs losses. But the yeah, there was some little concerns about that see autism back from, you know, a Brit, and Sean not getting along all the time and little rivalry. And and all that stuff and maybe little robberies not as an understatement. But I still think that that I think the guys in the click on a perceived bread as the. The enemy and into some degree. He was not on their team. So that's kind of where I looked at that thing. Conrad insist it was a it was a it was a political issue that was based on creative issues. Now, not to see one other see creative. And and they just they didn't see I feel a Sophocles in quite frankly bread had some very valid reasons for taking knifed power mom, which one or not, I don't I don't think. But there's a good reason. So normally Brett's push back was based on his guts in his experience in the business in some guys. There's a lot of different philosophies. You know, are you are you a fastball pitcher or you jump pitcher your your breaking ball pitcher? What are you? Everybody's got something that brought him to the game got him in the game. And Brits knowledge that was well. Things have gotten there any strong beliefs of history, Las are the wrestling business, and to be honest with you, I don't quite frankly, disagree with any of the things that Brit said about philosophic philosophies, wrestling, he's very very bright, very solid fundamentally he grew up in at atmosphere when businesses were straightforward and more simplistic, so it was a it was always a little issues there in that would kinda manifest itself. I didn't know that the entertainer had made that statement in that closed door meaning. Regarding brit. I can see frustration seeping in in that happening. But you know, I never knew undertaker and Brett to have any issues whatsoever. The this is news to me on this on this on this day. Let's talk about a conversation that Nash had with vents allegedly before he signs a catches Vance in front of the building one day and says, hey, I don't wanna leave, but my wife is six and a half months pregnant, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to pay my bills day to day or week to week because my year is dependent on wrestlemania payday if it's a strong year, it's because it was a strong wrestlemainia payday. But if it's not the we gotta figure something else out and Nash tells Vince the number that w w had offered, and he said, I don't want you to, you know, necessarily match the money, you just need to guarantee a certain portion of it and WCW according to national time is. Offer him eight hundred grand and Vince doesn't want to even come close to guarantee like that this is actually working and both his and Scott hall's favor. Because Scott hall allegedly is one of the first guys negotiate a favorite nations clause in his contract. So behind the scenes, Scott hall, pushing WCW, hey, offering a little more money, and he'll come with the idea being if Nash comes in and a bigger dollar fig, you bigger dollar figure. Scott hall's money will be bumped up as well. Of course. That's the way it winds up happening. It's decided WWF can't compete with that. So Nash puts over entertainment wrestlemainia, and then he puts over Sean one last pay per view. And supposedly Vance asked him to lose to the ultimate warrior on Monday night, raw and Kevin Nash agreed to take care of business with the entertainer and Shawn Michaels, but did not want to match with the ultimate warrior on raw. And ultimately that didn't happen. Do you? Remember hearing about this favored nations business the conversation that Nash had with Vince about the wrestlemainia payday mating. Meaning it was a good year a bad year and anything you can offer about the ultimate warrior rumor and innuendo. I think that I think Conrad that the. The two wins for undertaker and Sean were normal. Bookie analogical in. I think that's why Kevin Kevin a great respect for the entertainer as everybody does. And of course, Shawn was his best friend. So that was those are no brainers. And he knew that caused the the competitive spirit of being a division one athlete. The Kevin had is background. He would he would not is not up. It's not his style to call it in in a match against two guys. Like that. You know in Ken was more an attraction than a great. You know, tactician Lee wasn't Bret Hart whole whole kinda guy. He was a subtraction size, and look and so forth. But I can tell you that. I don't know if anybody I don't remember anybody running to the front of the line to wanna work with warrior. He was horrible. He had Greg charisma. He had you know, had the body as we know, but mechanically he wasn't. He wasn't. We had a lot of guys Rauscher that better than award. They just didn't look like the warrior. They didn't have his charisma, and the fact that hulk HOGAN pass the torch to the warrior there in Toronto wrestlemainia was huge warrior stardom would not have been nearly as as bright in vivid. If he had not gotten the rough from HOGAN pinned HOGAN in the in the sky Nova Toronto in my opinion, but he was not a real smooth worker. He didn't work when his game he worked on his look. And so he was a whole lot of sizzle and not a whole lot of steak, and I'll share that's going to piss off of ultra warrior fans. I don't mean to. I don't I'm not doing it in sight, you saying my opinion being around the business for all these years. He was not a very skilled entering performer. He was an attraction and civilization at the less. You saying the more is gonna mean, and, but he wasn't a hottie skill wrestler. In a lot of guys thought that our attempt to resurrect the image of the ultimate warrior was a futile attempt, and I could not agree with them more. I didn't think there was anything left in that regard vis low the character. I think he's got along with hill. Jim Howick the ultimate warrior WALE. Or at least you say like because I remember one time that that costume cornet was long. That's always an adventure airplane. But Vance and Linda and cornet me, and I remember who else on the group we stopped in Phoenix on the way to California to to visit with warrior in that might have been the going into wrestlemainia twelve. So our neighborhood to talk to him about the match and getting back on road. There's all these stipulations and got to have this got to have that. I mean, it became got addressing private dressing room. And one of the first things I did when I got there too in that role was to eliminate all the private dressing rooms, I thought eight people in a necessarily, but the thing that stuck out to me was it warrior used the f bomb in front of Linda and everybody their re over in over in over lack almost like to try to side. Reaction because this greatest Kamya Larry or intellect east. He was he did have a good vocabulary. And he was smart guy. But boy, I just thought man this is this what we're bringing to our locker room in my role. You got to look at that. Yeah. He was back in the heyday, he's he could help us. But that that that that horse it left the bar man that Horsa left the barn, and we were trying to you know, they say desperate time. What can we get something in here? This get hot rod quicker than not and warriors availability was there has track records there, but the ship sailed, and I don't blend Kevin whatsoever for not wanting to work with water, and I'm not trying to speak ill of the deceased. He just was very unique cat and not well liked by a lot of people. Okay. JR? I know it's summertime that means you're getting that pool. Righty? Getting that backyard and shape of seeing that online and the only thing more annoying than commercial. Commercial breaks during rawal. Well, it's another insects invading your home. And who knows where those flaws were last just landed on your hamburger could have been anywhere that son of another piece of food or what you know. We're flaws go he could've been and we want to thank our sponsors over at diner trap. You see Donald Trump is the leading manufacturer of outdoor mosquito and insect traps. 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And simple solution the household insect control. And Jim you've got a trap at your house. What do you think so far I love it? Because I. A lot of cooking out in middle outdoor kitchen Conrad, and you know, the, aroma. My delicious Arom of my food like guy Fieri or somebody. But the that could be a pain he asks bucks, and boy this works simple as that. You know, when you find out that we're advertising, something or endorsing something. It's not just for payday we'd like to pay day. But if it doesn't work dancer, not gonna try to sell you on it. So these products work, it's great if you're outside, grilling or cooking, you got family. You know, my granddaughter's come over to worry about the down annoying of bugs. So and you're on red. They're more annoying than a commercial break during the main event match on Monday night raw. So what are you waiting for go to Donald Trump dot com right now? A news our special promo code JR. That's going to get you an extra fifteen percent off of any of their products at Donald tramp dot com. That's D Y N A T R AP dot com. Dina tramp dot com. Check it out. You'll be glad you did. And don't forget that promo code JR. Well, the wrestlemainia show comes and goes Scott hall's not on. He was supposed to be in there with gold. He doesn't want to. So that's a wrap Roddy. Piper takes the spot. Instead undertaker gets a win over diesel about seventeen minutes, and Kevin Nash is paid a hundred and fifty grand for that match. According to Jim cornet in allegedly Jim cornell's like, wow, the fucker you pay him a hundred fifty grand and Vince explains I don't want Kevin to Bill will say that scared him on the way out does sound like a Vincent man is them. Yeah. And and other thing about that hundred fifty grand. Corny made it sound like, and he would involve at this particular aspect of minute sound like, you know, he got one hundred fifty grand to as hush money or whatever. I mean, I'm saying that his payday. That's what his day was. I mean that day. I don't know that we gave Kevin any extra money above and beyond what he would normally receipt in the payday. You know than than got so cornet necessarily want to do that. But it's fair to say that a lot of times when a arrests leaving promotion the promoter trust to find a way to short him. Anyway, can I mean, that's certainly been the precedence setting wrestling for years and years. Yes, unfortunately, it has been I just don't we didn't I'll say this events, and he had plenty as everybody knows twenty of disagreements that funny. The other side of the coin too. That's just not style in that regard. In other words, he's more apt to give you more money. So you can say look what I'm leaving as opposed to, you know, the the the the hush money type thing. So I think as far as normal normal deal and Kannada hell payday that day, but he was in a big big match at wrestlemainia. So getting a hundred and fifty thousand dollar pay date real Samania is not a rare occurrence when when I know that I've written down seven figures talents, the resume before getting a hundred half is not, you know, a ground ground setting thing. Let's talk about good, friends, better enemies. It's the last pay per view in the WBF for these guys Vader's gonna pin razor Ramon. Shawn Michaels kind pin. Diesel. And I guess we should just fast forward. We're here. It's the curtain call. As we mentioned earlier may nineteenth nineteen Ninety-six. The gate is three hundred twenty eight thousand dollars hall and Nash, both say it's the biggest non pay-per-view show that the WWF ever did Madison Square Garden up to that point that checkout for you as the biggest gate, non pay-per-view us and the history of the company at that point. Sales flaws. Sounds flaws will the ticket prices had increased as time went on everything else in our lives. So the tickets are a little bit lofty and healthy. And they weren't there were not any empty seats. So yeah, it was good. It was good. They the roster delivered. And as I delivered most every night that that that group of guys. So Nash says on the way to the show that day Scott looked at him and said, this is the last time we're going to be at the garden. Let's work this motherfucker stoned. Kevin Nash Hatton Winstone three years, which sounds crazy. But you have to appreciate this. They've been drug tested the whole time they're here. So he says when I walked in the door the day, I left there wasn't a fucker taking steroids, and nobody was smoking pot booze and pills, you could get from a doctor and alcohol's legal. But she didn't have anything illegal. So on the rod in when he says, hey, we should do this match stone it at least crosses their mind that night razors going to wrestle hunters Townsley, the semi main as we said. The the finish is supposed to be where Pat wants to replace to jump razor from behind while razor giving Tony Timmel his chains and razor would give us change to someone before the match. And then he was triple h to beat him up throw him outside choking with some ringside cables, and then leave him laying in our way. And he's going to go back in the ring get on the mic and say, you know, go wherever you're going razor Ramon, and as he's laying there the fans are saying things to him like look how they're trading you razor after all you've done. Good Atlanta and get the money, obviously, you know, the finish is going to come. But afterwards, he he picks up the Mike and he says a set of say Hello to the bad guy. Say goodbye to the bad guy. And and the fans are chanting use old out you sold out, and he points to the curtain where he knows Vincent standing, and is telling fans, you tell him to give you the money and I'll stay right here. So. The the fans are in on this. This is before the internet is what it is. Now, how is it out there at this point where so many fans knew is it just because New York is smart market, and they were reading the quote, unquote dirt sheets. Thank so, the the the, you know, if Milton wrote a story, you know, you had a lot of people that would pick up on they were subscribing to the observer or they're getting a copy of it are shared by somebody. But this that's a very tight little group of fans, pardon me. And so that's that's the way. I could tell you that it got out there. It was simply word of mouth after you know. And if Meltzer had if Meltzer was writing about it any was then the other journalists would do the same thing there. Because a lot of those guys Meltzer always the laid bullets situa-. A lot of guys just follow. What he said to either to disagree are to try to steal the thunder. So the bottom line here is is that the word got out the word travel fast. It was big news. And you know, that whole wrestling war scenario was getting more prominent in the fans are eating it up. You know, they realized that competition is good for everybody makes everybody get better at what they do still believe that to be treated, quite frankly. So, you know, it's just it's just a. It's just it was just a situation where that night after that right after the those mashes swim the things are to center, pardon me. Right after those matches that we talked about the main events. That's when things started to implode and on that night, and the residual of the curtain call within be sending that we'd be talking about all these years later because it was that big news within our world. You know, it wasn't big news. And I'm sure Dan rather didn't give shit. But but I think our fans and did because it was big news. So that's kind of has got out there. And then and then quite frankly, you know, I don't know that we did a good job. We did a great job of of suppressing it going forward. It's the doctor. You know, the knocker Yankee thing moving to diesel all that crazy shit that we did we just embellish the whole process in may no money in the process of doing it. It was more of a revenge story line. Then it was are we going to draw money. We did damn dime. With the fakery cer- diesel. I know we will. But I'm just saying that this whole thing's route to hail right after when they dollars guys came back to the ring. That's when things really started in rivaling. Scott hall is said that for the weeks leading to this MSG show, Vince never sold. The fact, but Scott was leaving and never talk to him never try to work things out. But when he comes back through the curtain after his match with hunters Townsley Vince calls him into his office. And when he gets there, he says, listen, you still work for me. Let's work something out and hall said well, tell Bischoff I'm coming. It's a little late now. And he said he wanted to say that he loved that place. And he's talking to vents Shawn Michaels walks in and Shawn asks Vance team on to Fraser and triple h come out after match, and that's when it was agreed upon then it's going to happen. Kevin Nash tells the story a little differently than have occurred. Call came to be he says that Sean razor went to Vance and asked if they could do it because they didn't want your plates to get a heat. And Vince had no problem with it. And Nash said originally we were supposed to go with Vince to Smith. We'll Inskeep and have steak and wine. That's the plan. So Sean walks in and says defense, I wanna do this with my voice. Than I events as always Vince does says, Sean how important is this is it that important insurances. Yes. Invent says, we'll just do it. So it was without malice that they did according to Kevin Nash. I guess we should mention as we said Shawn Michaels beats diesel and a cage match that night to retain the world title after the match just as we said razor triple h come to the ring, they all hug, they go to the four corners of the ring. The celebrate and this is the curtain call and some fan snuck a video cassette recorder, a VHS in I guess, there is jacket or pants or whatever. And he shooting this from the crowd, and that footage would leak out and it would become a underground tape. Trading collector nightmare or dream because it's not the best looking footage. But it is cool to see something that otherwise we wouldn't have seen. Nash says he remembers Dave away going up to vent and saying something like what the fuck was that these guys are going down south, and you're. Going to let them kill the garden off. And Nash said it just steamrolled from there where soon as they get back to the curtain Vince didn't turn his back to Nash. But he turned just enough to signify like I'm fucking over this. Nash said that they did this because they loved each other and everybody had each other's back and everybody likes to use the word organic. But that's what this really was. It wasn't preconceived. It wasn't a work. It was four God who loved each other saying goodbye and Shawn said it was talked about when they went on the European tour, but was never talked about again as far as he knew. There's lots of old timers who took issue with this. You know, the. The gym cornet of the world are not happy about the curtain call. He describes the scene where you know. People are throwing shit even says, I was throwing my fucking suit bag down the goddamn Madison Square Garden. Hallway assume everybody knows what the curtain call is. I don't need to get into it. Jerry Briscoe was walking around kicking fucking walls. He wanted to get out there and stressed the Messina's. They came back. Everyone was fucking hot. Because what it was they took a shit on Vince McMahon's, dining room table. The guy who was paying them the Madison Square Garden show was to his father into him his dining room at that. At the time that was the yardstick that people measure their success in the business, and they had their little billionaire, boys. Tree club, go out and expose the business and do a big fucking circle jerk. And who was Vincent we ain't gonna discipline. It was Kevin Nashes last night. It was Scott hall's last night. And Shawn Michaels was the champion. So you hear about this? I'm sure you get a phone. Call to hear about day carry me through what you heard happened. I think. I'm trying to think maybe cheered Risco calming. And I thought he was riven. They didn't do that come on. Now. They did what happened. They told me, and it was lex. I was taken aback because I wouldn't I wasn't a a part of the plan are the discussion of the curtain call. So again, I wasn't there because had the flu at the the bottom line was that, you know, had not then across my radar leading into that event. So I didn't have I I was completed caught off guard in that regard in a found it to be found a found it to be offensive as hell until you find out that that talked about it. And so one thing I I understand the passionate guy like to respect great deal cornet, and in Briscoe what they said, you know, I'm sure they were not aware either. I don't think. That Vincent signed off on this damn thing. So that's that's always been a point of contention for me is that there was so much outrage. But if you're going to be out outrageous about this really, go should go talk to the boss because he he checked the box they can do it. So when that happened, I I'm looking kind of all bets kind of half ass off at that point in time so in and I don't think that I don't think that I still to this very day. Conrad don't believe that those guys did that too showed up vincit keister. I think they did it to to show that they have solidarity that they have unity that there. We're gonna we're not we're not we're going to break the mold of what the boys used to be. Just Brit Hart said one time the in the old days wrestler book like circus animals. They didn't want to be a circus animal in their view any longer, and they're gonna make a statement that we're we're going to make some changes by you know, our philosophy and thanks this nature. So. Oh, just it was just a it was a it was a rough night because it unique that phone call feeling bad. Anyway, now, you know, sleeping down, wink, 'cause you just waiting for the other shoe to drop, and and you know, the last thing I wanted to do is to bring it up Vanson. Sorry, didn't go the garden the flu. But you know, he knew what going, but I wish I'd have been there to help you out on this deal. There was no help to do each oth- on the talents are going to be this for themselves. Without the clearance from the head honcho. Then. That's a different matter as as played out. Not ready that mess not that big a deal. And again, I think it opened everybody's eyes. What we might be able to conference. We captivated the they captivate the audience at night, they struck a chord they found something the audience was going to really react to in a very emotional way. So the audience may that emotional investment in these cats in in the guard and closes that's the last memory of the garden that night. That's the last thing they saw so it was bold. But it was orchestrated bowl. Richard has said he felt it was on professional and the slap in the face events in the McMahon family, and he personally felt it was disgraceful. He also said it was an F U vents said he felt it was stupid for Sean hundred because they're staying and Bruce believes that Sean did ask Vance, but he feels that Vince will sort of half listening and didn't really understand what they were going to do. And Bruce doesn't believe the Sean actually laid out specifically what they were going to do. And of course, Vince McMahon is even on record saying, it was a cool moment. And it was a cool moment for those in the audience who knew it wasn't a cool moment for me when I saw that. Because I really didn't know what I was looking at. So I was upset and there were other individuals upset and Sean would say it wasn't done. A stick anybody in the eye. It was just France expressing their care for one another. But as a wise guy once told me, it isn't show friends, it's show business and. Jim cornet is super hot about it. And he says he would have fired triple h because he was underneath guy who wasn't getting over. And he would have taken the title off showing and corny on sale. Thuc Thome got dammit Stanislas abyss, quote, never done this. I mean seriously that that's really the gist of it. He says he would have taken the belt off, Shawn. What he used to put other guys over and he would have gotten rid of him too. And this may yeah, I don't know that we would have done that. We'll talk about the the punishment in a minute. But Meltzer wrote about this as well. And he says that you know, fans knew in the crowd, what was going on their chanting you sold out, and he is a complete rundown of what's going on here. But one of the questions that I've always had was where the hill was Shawn Michaels. I mean, not Michael showing wallman. Meltzer word, right? The other clique member one-two-three hit wasn't at the show his future with the company isn't somewhat question after showed up to the superstars typing on April thirtieth in no condition to perform and what we back until June at the earliest. So I guess we should mention the world changes and professional wrestling on may twenty seventh. So just a couple of weeks after this Scott hall makes a shocking debut on W tra- when he walks through the crowd walks into the rank cuts a promo on what's going to be the momentum swinging w direction, of course, the end of you. Oh is right around the corner. A couple of weeks after that, Kevin Nash debuts and we're off to the racist. So let's talk about the fallout of what's left here in the WWF. Sean says after the incident Vince was getting a number phone calls about what happened from other older wrestlers who weren't happy. And quote, what happened was the same thing happens a lot of times then. On the right to wherever starts getting phone calls. And honestly, it was big the old timers in the locker room before it was big anywhere else. So Sean sort of put the heat on some of the other guys who maybe weren't big fans of the click or new that they weren't in line for a push. And maybe they had an axe to grind with Shawn Michaels or hunter. And they were the ones you really stirred up the shit that it really wasn't a big deal to the crowd or even to vents. You were really really close with Vince at the time is that fair statement. Yeah. Thanks. This got delusion call some people. You know, an older guys are established guys in the business some of their think, but a lot of was where they really outraged. Those guys calling or were they trying to ingratiate themselves to chairman. I always looked sad. You know, God bless chance. He said one time I said, she was watching Miss America pageant, and I said, well, you know, what to work, Honey. Oh my God. What you stop that wrestling stuff? Everything's not a work Honey as well. You know, say I didn't wanna watch this America show. So I was hoping this offer channels. They didn't have neither. So I think a lot of guys trying to kiss ass integration sales of the. I'd never do that to hear that conversation. You'd never have to worry about me on that deal. We all all of us know what the garden means. And that's true. Stephen to by the way, the garden was always considered as cornet mentioned other guys have mentioned. I mean, he make it there. You your career could be defined by how will you do in New York in territory wise, and specifically in the garden Bill watch start eighty this week, and no mentor, and he can tell you eighty the matches at he and Bruno had in a garden, they hit three of them. And they the they had the main event in the in garden last wrestling match there. They were in the main event. Well, he remembers those things can you imagine thousands of masters cowboy hat over the years in different territories, and ganja, and Graham and Atlanta so forth own territory. Bay remembers those three matches Bruno in the garden in new garden as vividly as anything out there because he was the garden, and of course, Bruno Bruno and a guard was really the the the. The big time deal. That's that. Was you had your program watch it three runs with Bruno? So that Gardner special place for everybody Wellstone out. We know the garden special a lot of the old timers take an issue. People calling Vance. So feels natural that people would have sort of urged or insisted that someone be punished is one of those folks, Jim cornet, probably I would I would think corny was, you know, very, we know you read is quotes, very he talked about making an emotional investment in an issue. He made a huge emotional the issue, that's kinda style. He's can be abrasive. And course, but he said extremely intelligent, and but he's very passionate and sometimes that passion can be hard to control. But I I would think that he would probably one of them, you know, Patterson might have been one, you know, if Bruce didn't like something, and he didn't by his own quotes in that regard. Unsure Pat Phil simmer. So, but there there's you know, we have a lot older agents. You know, George animal steel, Jack Lanza, although school guys don't agree a-, and others share felt the same way conversations. I had with them. We're like, you know, the odeal wisher tell you. What's the old man going to do this Neil? I sound like he's got control. He's good Jack. All right. We're all right. We want harp on the restaurants. Love to bitch about payday bitch better trout bitch about the finish. And they're integrates Denison the world, and they'll admit that privately. But it's just amazing to me that people continue to look for something to do not like in that maybe even more prominent today, then so yeah, there was cornet was trying to be he'd be on the list. No doubt about that. So cornet is somebody who's going to talk to triple h and tell him that he should on the entire business. He's gonna. To be punished because the can't do anything to Shawn Michaels there only two months into his big wrestlemainia title win and ruin now as champion, and it's been building for six eight months or more hall and Nash gone, so because hunter agreed to go out there. Now, he's going to be punished and he needs to go apologize to everyone. And he encourages him to apologize to all the boys in the locker room. I need us and even apologizes to Jim cornet and years later, he would go on TV he being hunter pronounce pal when they play some fans camcorder version on raw and hunter says we were revolutionizing the business. Don't apologize for that. And and cornet says he never meant it. He was a fucking kick kiss ass and a suck up. Then. Now, he doesn't need to kiss ass suck up because he's licking the right cracks therefore, he doesn't need to suck anybody. But the point is he didn't mean it when he apologized to me. He didn't mean it when he apologized to the boys and he did. Didn't mean it when he said he was sorry. He exposed the business, but that's cornets opinion. When hunter actually sits down with Vance Vince knows he's got pushed some sort of punishment down the line just to appease everybody else in the locker room. Maybe set an example, whatever phrase you want to use. And he says something along the lines of you're gonna have to learn to eat shit, and like the taste of it. So the creative changes can you confirm that the original plan for king of the ring ninety six was that hunter was supposed to be crowned king of the ring. As I recall triple h is going to be the king of the ring in that year. I think that, you know, a lot of Saugrain of side, you know, I thought he was one of our brightest prospects at that point in time because he was smart and durable. Good, look and all that good stuff. Had a real smart Ed for the business. I've said I'll tell the story before you know, when I had if I had any issues with the click. Late are being uncooperative, whatever the one that really could always bring that home to their attention and good way was triple h he was easy to talk to in that regard for me. And so that was that was going to have looked at that deal. But yeah, triple h is looked air marked to be the guy, and and I guess his assuming that the grand scale of his punishment Conrad game by not winning the king of the ring. He was still in attorney -ment and he put over Jake Roberts who then who got a strong win there who then was set up to put over stone coal that that in in booking parliament's made a lot of sense. But the bottom line is is that I'm not aware of any other quote unquote, punishment that triple h recede. I don't recall him being his money being affected whatsoever. Other than if down the card not affected a little bit. But nonetheless, it wasn't a. Fine or suspension or anything like that would take money out of his pocket. But he was scheduled to be the guy. And luckily as it worked out, you know, often got the call. So of the two CS is we talked about the punishment was more curative than cash and that creative with turn his favor in November. So it's about six months November. He's going to win the intercontinental title for Marc Mero. We'll talk about that another time. Let's talk about the punishment. Vince Russo has been on record saying that Jim cornet and Bruce Richard both wanna triple h fired. And he thought it was ridiculous. He felt like it was power trip bullshit, and you know, they should have business in mind. And you kinda get the the tradition of wrestling is that fair to say because a lot of these old timers think that oh, you're shitting on the business. But that's because they've been ingrained in brought up that way for decades. And maybe Russo as an outsider didn't see it that way fair to say absolutely fair say, and it doesn't make anybody necessarily, right? A wrong. Could understand guys like Bruce corny who were lifers, and they had a certain philosophy in that regard. I shared many of those lawsuits same at say at the same time. But I always looked at the big picture the bigger picture. Okay. So let's say that triple h made an air in judgment by going out there with his buddies say that happened, and it wasn't Aaron judge. How long did you pay that price? How long how long does that penalty? And I felt like that he got he got ostracize locker room yet. You had to make it retraced the steps there and re re pets and relationships some guys. But how many guys you really think the locker room gave to shits about the time honored traditions or customs or whatever they care about their paycheck. And if so I I don't know. I I I just think sometimes there's a small pocket of people that made a big deal of the curtain call when a lot of people in Saint company some in the same locker room didn't give a shit. It didn't matter. It didn't matter because it didn't affect them in their view, and assertively argument could be made mitt, well, you know, you know, like Davies comment, you're letting them kill the guard. They're killing the garden. We're not killing the garden. You kidding me? And things like that brought to miss statistic, a kind of look that say, okay, appreciate your fashion. So to speak. But I don't kill the garden and didn't kill the guard. So, but it I thought the to me it was the the fate of this thing how this played out was just almost like a novel almost like a screenplay. I'm glad you mentioned that because we should talk about the fallout here. Yes, it means hundred doesn't winking ring. But that means you guys have to tap somebody else. And you look to a guy who maybe had been underutilized. He hadn't been featured on the show a lot. But you're gonna use this as a launch pad to push somebody new instead of hundred hers towns, and the Gotch Osen is Steve Austin and Steve Austin at the end of winning that tournament stands next. The DOK Hendrix Ammon that microphone comes in front of his face. Austin three sixteen is born the signs show up Monday night, raw the next night. You guys take that to the Bank with an Austin three sixteen shirt that is the hottest shirt and history for the company and he is off to the races. His ninety seven for Steve Austin is. Unbelievable, of course because ninety six with the returning Bret Hart had survivor series. They have a barn burner of a match. And by the time, Royal rumble comes around. He's one of the top stars. And in the featured final four guys goes onto main event, February pay per view steals, the show wrestlemainia thirteen and we're off to the races for one of the hottest feuds of the year with Steve Austin stone, cold Steve Austin versus the Hart foundation Brad, no one in the like, and he becomes your champion in short order in the hottest star in the business. And I gotta ask you Jim is any of that happen? Certainly didn't happen this way. But would it have happened at all without the curtain call? That's such a weird thing to say. But when you rearrange the pieces you shuffle the deck. Steve Austin comes out on top of all this does. He does. Very prominently. I can't say that it would have happened in the way that it did. But would it have happened? Absolutely. Because the Oakland goes, and I believe it the cream will always rise to the top. You know? That's why I say seven many years, you know, talents have got to understand it's imperative for them to maximize their minutes and every time Austin went out to wrestle. It was a sense of urgency as far as his mindset was concerned because he had finally gotten to WWF, and he wasn't going to blow it. So I believe that Austin would have been a success in any event. But as you mentioned Conrad, it wouldn't have happened in this time line it wouldn't happen in this manner whatsoever. So in that regard, the curtain call was a positive as it because how can you say something is not a positive if indeed what you're saying? I agree with isn't true. True that the curtain call health Acilitator Austin's king of the ring win and the king of the ring went put awesome map. It got the gut. The put the truck in gear off they went. So so you can't say anything's bad if help create if it helped create the biggest box office in sation for that length of time that the business it ever seen. Without stole Costa, vases success? I'm not so sure this company would have gone public as quickly as it did. RJR we need to take a time out right here until everybody where they can catch you on the road. Of course, we've talked about it too or blue in the face. You're going to be a star cast in Las Vegas, but you're making the loop. Man, you're going to be in a few other spots to. Yeah. Some bookings. I'm looking forward to a good friend. Dave heroes. Got a a show up in in the Milwaukee area on the eighteenth of may I'm doing little seminar there to meet and greet his young son cow hero is going to be wrestling. He's like seventeen or sixteen or seventeen years old. And so I'm looking forward to that. Always good to meet the fans, we're gonna bring our sauces and our books and so forth. So go Rafeal. We with me, and we'll make sure that happens that in on may the eighteenth near Milwaukee checkout. David hero, Twitter, you'll get all the information that you need. And then I'm doing a lot of prep work right now on the talk with our Nassar's yesterday. And so, you know, we're we're planning on making a splash as best. We can we know the eyes and ears will be on us. People waiting for us to make a mistake or two or three that will happen, quite frankly. Kosher human. But they'll be no lack of effort or excitement or genuine organic passion on the twenty fifth of may when we are part of the novel. Are nothing broadcast team. Can't tell you how excited I am to me. My mental state is this will be my wrestlemainia this year, the twenty fifth of may Las Vegas after all the great stuff Conrad's book roasts the Pune as all that good stuff to set back and call the matches. Like, I I did for years was is something I'm extremely excited about so check that out. And we'll you'll be you'll be informed soon about how you can see that on pay per view and all that good stuff. So Conrad I enjoy meeting the fans still fun to me. And I appreciate the opportunity to talk about here on our show little bit. But we'll we'll keep her by postal where I'm going, and you can follow me on Twitter at BBQ in generally of information on that for what shake. It's so amazing. When you really think about everything that changed in wrestling, you know, people think that hall and Nash leaving to create the interview, oh, you know, certainly was the match but let the wrestling business on fire. But. Stone Costa Vostok port gasoline over the whole thing. And none of that would have maybe happened had it not been for the curtain call which is why I think people are still talking about it, of course, in July of ninety six Cogan turns he'll for the first time becomes the ultimate bad guy and joins the W O, the businesses forever changed, and you guys find yourself in an unfamiliar spot instead of leading now you're trying to play catch a ball. So now, we'll we'll pivot to the other side of the story. You see hulk HOGAN is a bad guy. It's getting over like crazy. The WF has may be sucking hind teat and somebody along the way says why if those guys are so over. Why don't we just bring him back and allegedly and correct me from wrong here. But Bruce Prichard has said that this was actually WWE attorneys idea. You were there what can you speak about this this Jerry mcnuggets idea that hey guys on the app, e why don't you just make somebody else razor Ramon in Daizo? I can see that happening. I could see that happening. The best logger ever been around my life. The battling bear hours calling hell hell the mind. Boy, he something else. Pittsburgh guy and him in. My wife are buddies his wife so forth. I'll get stuff, but he was right about the IT. The idea sucked. It was ridiculous. And it was knee jerk. Do we think it through? And as a former Booker in someone that did this figure out. How can we monetize this piece of? Creative to make us money. At can we monetize this? And unfortunately, that was never considered seemingly because anybody that actually believed that the fake razor in and diesel. We're going to draw money is there on hallucinates Hosa jenex wherever it is there smoking today. There got the they got the chocolate cake in double the peace because it just didn't make any sense never going to happen. So. And I think that that I don't think that did Russo any favors either. So that what they're what a great idea. Are you saying that Rousseau was involved in the booking when this happened wasn't? He in the creative. I don't I don't know that he was my September ninety six doesn't feel this spills pre rusada me. Okay. Well, maybe it was. But bottom line is. I don't how Rousseau would have a say do what about creative because at that time. He was working publications. I think he's working on the magazine he had started to appear little bit. As Vic venom on the live wire show. You guys one on USA? So chat me up when when you're are you in the booking meeting or to show up around? And I say okay jam here today. No, I'm in I'm in the meeting and and. I think it was. I don't know. I I've always wondered why those decisions were made. I thought that you know, I I was very very content to continue to improve as a broadcaster and to hopefully earn more significant minutes on the TV doing my work s what I came there to do. And then it was given to me this is you know, what we're gonna do. And you're going to be the guide. I was never told. I thought I was going to become like a heel announcer. But I I never got discussion. I was going to become a manager because that was never my my my my plan whatsoever. Because I didn't think it'd be good at it. And I didn't why us me when he got the guys are much better that you could use, but my but nonetheless, the idea was. I could see that idea coming from non wrestling people. So let's talk about why they would have tried it. I I guess we should mention there were there were weeks ninety six a second-half ninety six here where nitro was winning three point six two Rawls one point six and that was another week where it was three point one to one point five so fans are certainly liking a Mauri. -ality based product, you know, the end of you breaking into the W W production truck versus. You know, some over the top. Maybe silly cartoon characters for the presentation. So you guys decide to turn good old JR he'll and bring back razor and diesel. And you you tag. I guess as I'm Rick Bogner from to be razor. Ramon and Glenn Jacobs. The former attic come DDS to be diesel. I think the the protocol here is we get their gear made. And we send those some tapes and say learn to do these moves and mannerisms you guys do a walk through. Or is really the first time anybody sees this live on role. I think cornet disin- work with those guys about glens are diesels mannerisms, and so forth and corny long history. With Glenn Jacobs who we hired, you know? I I went to smoking mouse smoky mountains just come for corn at that time while WWE so he was like a no brainer to sign. I I was completely unaware who Rick Bogner was and don't mind saying that it wouldn't just knock on the dude. Canadian cat. I know that. Which will make him bad or good just Mexican Canadian. So I didn't I was around him. I didn't know him. Well, but he he had added distance when prepare for television. He looked a little he had a little razor tendencies. And of course, Glenn had that near seven foot frame as Kevin Ashti it. So that's kind of how that worked out. We weren't really Dr Yankee never going to draw any money. It's another stupid gimmick. Mental sense. I rolling nobody could attach to it. Because they want to be embarrassed their fan of something so bad, and what a glimpse fall the give it was bad. So yeah, I I I don't know if I don't think we did Walter walked through I tell my Walter went the night before I did the promo in Hershey. Introducing these guys are doing my heel promo thing. I road from Philly to Hershey with Jerry Briscoe at a sleet ice storm. In my native American compadres was not really happy driving on the ice. And I me out of been less happy. But all the way there from Philly in in slow traffic, I recited at promo and it wasn't. I just I had bullet points, and I started putting all the sentences together. So when I got TV I had the promo down. And and so I was confident we're going to be I was gonna be able to do that. And I was excited about it. Because it's something new again thinking I still go back to the commentary booth. That's going to be a little bit more edgy so forth. So on is all fine. But some of the things I said the promo got cheered. They did. So I don't know if it's swimming upstream. I didn't mind trying it. But I sure as hell had no envisions whatsoever of becoming a quote, unquote, he'll manager. I don't I'm not Jim coordinator, Bobby Heenan or. Our Gary Hart, those great wants, you know, this not I that's not my skill set. And so I didn't feel good about stepping into that world. But that had nearly been determined. I guess we should mention that in the middle of all this between the curtain call in. Now, the WB f- had sued WCW for them portraying that these guys were really invading WCW from the WWF. An scout hall was using a lot of his little razor Ramon mannerisms, and they're being portrayed as characters from the WWF. So there is an ongoing lawsuit. And then on the September six edition of raw which I believe on Friday night. You said that we're breaking the biggest story of all right now is that big daddy cool diesel and the bad guy razor Ramon are on their way back, and I have that aren't good authority from very reliable sources and Kevin Kelly is saying that's unbelievable news. And what a huge story it would be and later in the show. You reiterate when you've been in the business as long as I have there some source sources you really rely on. And they tell me diesel and razor Ramon are on their way back. And of course, that gets WCW panic a little bit. Because at this point, according to Scott hall, and Kevin Nash, they're still working on what they call deal memos, not actual contracts. So they offer the Gaza bump and pay Eric Bischoff denies that. But both Scott hall, and Kevin Nash say when you did this angle they got a bump in pay. And even go on your hotline and say that, you know, I'm steadfast my story and my sources I do negotiations between razor in diesel and their representatives more specifically representatives of the W F or ongoing this week, and you're trying to keep people abreast of the situation. And even the lead story on the VF's America Online site and Vincent man is asking you to apologize for that statement. But you're still milking it, and you're going to do that in your your big speech on November twenty third Hershey. Awesome timber ninth though. Bishoff does a prodigy chat until fans. Hey, they're under contract, and they're not going anywhere. Of course. We know the story it's going to be an interesting promo from you gets a lot of attention. Jim cornet has has worked with these guys. And in the process of getting them ready loses even more respect for diesel and says that diesel has fucking six moves if you can't the hair flip five if you don't. Cold boy. And he says it's going to be easy for these guys. To portray the character. Scott hall has been on record saying he took no issue with Rick Bogner, portraying the razor Ramon character. He just wishes he would have called him. So he could sold him some of his old razor Ramon Giger, which is kind of funny. And of course, we know it really worked out for Glenn Jacobs. This fake diesel characters not long for this world but fast forward to October ninety seven and he's going to become Kane and he's off to the races. The promo though is really something else that comes one day after that in your house mind games, pay per view on September twenty second. You're going to be in the middle of the rain. And you're gonna talk about how Vincent man has fired your ass, and he has no you have no loyalty to the. You're only loyalty is to you. And it's because you left a great job in Atlanta where you were working with the National Football League in the Atlanta Falcons and another wrestling organization, but now you wanted to be here. The recognized leader, and they made you debut wrestlemania non in sheet. And and then he talked about how you'd been fired before. And how much you hated living in Stamford, Connecticut. And here you go I want to bring back one of your favorites. Here's the bad guy razor Ramon really really good promo from you, though. What advance? Thank you your promo. They loved it. He loaded the irony that promo. I think the I think it's still the delivery and the tone tenor cetera. Still would hold up today. But it was not written by writers. It wasn't written by somebody disconnected from me or the person delivering the interview this case, no sale. It was my guts, and, you know, reciting promo over and over at nausea for us Jerry Briscoe on that sleet, Phil ride from Philly to Hershey. You know, it just clicked, and, but it goes to show you that if you give somebody got some skill bullet points and the right motivation. They could do better themselves and somebody writing for them in a more sterile environment. Which is kind of what I see scripted almost being so, but yeah, this locked it. And he didn't hear he had never heard the promo until I did it and the one that really it resonated to monsoon who I love like a father because that was far the day was I was going to start being an asshole of monsoon. I said man, that's we are to do. You know, I. But you gotta remember playing a character. It's fiction. Do your do your thing the Bisher building and called her today? That's what we did. So this lack the promo got over. Well, I can only imagine how played this. This point are lies Conrad a social media as it is that from it would have been probably considered bigger than it was even then it had the juice that we have now social media. But it was it was good. I enjoyed it. I enjoy the departure doing something different. I just didn't want to become a manager. I guess we should mention that in this promo you out Vince McMahon as being the owner, which is never even been really acknowledged on the show up until this point. But here you're very clear that he's the owner, and he does feel real like you've pulled the curtain back a little bit. And if Israel because a lot of it is I mean, you told the truth in your promo, but you made the reality fit the fiction, of course, razor in diesel don't get over. And this doesn't last long guess the highlight of their run as the in your house twelve pay per view, the challenge Owen and bulldog for the tactile. Of course, thankfully, owing a bulldog wines Bogner makes one last pay per view appearance. The Royal rumble ninety seven he's the first guy eliminated from the match and he's not saying again. On TV and. As we said when got repackaged. Ironic here on this at this moment in our conversation this week that the curtain call. Indirectly help the helped everybody. Discover the stone cold Steve Austin character, the curtain call as it would play out helped Glenn chick is get rid of Dr yank him have a stop off as they phony diesel. But more importantly, it took him to Kane in Cain became one of the longest running mate event stars in the history of the company. So when you go back and say, the boy look at all the damage that happened in the guard. Well, first of all, we know the garden gluttonous wasn't killed business. Continued it helped create a new atmosphere new attitude for WWE and just in the sense of two guys. Steve Austin Kane, they they were byproducts. So that chaos that's not a that's that's that's kind of a wind to me so curtain calls what it was. Ace unsaved some I get it. God almighty, I don't know. But the fact that we could get Austin Kane both out of that scenario squeeze that out of this fruit pretty damn good. Pretty good for maybe everyone except brick Bockner. Guess we should mention that. Correct. No, you're right about that. He's done after this one shot this one last shot at the Royal rumble. His contract is gonna expire he had a one year deal. And then after that he goes back to new Japan or he's going to be wrestling as a big titan. Rick titan. And he has a funny story where he says, you know, Vince was sort of famous for whenever you know, he hired a new guy on he would give employees and staff members and wrestlers has home number, and Silas and call me anytime day or night with questions, and so when Rick hadn't been booked a few weeks, he calls Vince home one day to see what's up with Vince answers, allegedly says Rick don't ever call me at home again and hangs up which I think is fucking hilarious. I never knew about the bits passing out his phone number story till I read on our notes, but it didn't sound like him, quite frankly, I mean, but you know, I don't know Rick Rick's story in that happened. Happened. But I can see it happening both ways. I just I would never understand why give everybody a home phone number when he had us it costs. Here's the deal. He's he was probably at the office more than he wasn't home. So your chance to kiss him home, or like, you said maybe on a Sunday afternoon type thing, but nonetheless, I can say Bob nurseries or calling to Federal Way, man. He just faded away. And what a bad hand, it wasn't a bad hand. At all. I'm trying to figure out how he got him. Somebody. It may he may have been a recommendation from the hearts, I'm not sure because I think he had ties to the Calgary territory at one time. But I'm maybe wrong about that too. Let's go to Twitter, we asked you guys. Hey, do you have a question. We would love to take your questions here on the show. And I guess we'll talk about we're doing next week in a minute. But what you need to know is JR grilling is where you can find us on Twitter. That's our official show account JR grilling at JR, grilling. So check it out on Twitter. Throw us a follow their. We did one last poll on my account this week. We'll talk about that in a minute. But if you wanna vote in the next poll you need to follow on Twitter at JR grilling quick question here from Brian breaker the introduction of fake razor. It was on raw. And that was the day. I started prefer WCW to the WWF in my opinion. It's the worst move creatively. The WWF made during this time, the J realized it was going to be such a stink bomb when he was first handed the creative for this. Yeah. I'm stink worthy. I exactly knew it was going to happen. It was look in the analyst pro wrestling. It's like I'll give you know school couple what to examine real quick one was when snook laugh WWF at one point. And I remember the the company brought in another islander named safety offi to make in the next nigga. If they'll miserably he looked good. But nobody you're going to make me give me a Polynesian superman. I won't snuck. I don't wanna got it looks like Snuka, smells, like Snuka, you know, that acts like Snooka because he as snooker same thing when she Wadi left midsouth cowboy was hell bent on auditioning booking every available black star. He could find to see who's gonna replace dog because it had to be another African American, and I always thought that was mistake. And and the irony of that whole deal, we tried brickhouse Brown. Gosh, all Cuza guys. I mean seriously. Okay. Guys, pork chop cash. Tons of gas. But nonetheless, it didn't work, and we had the guy on a roster already there actually Butch Reed that could've stepped in and taking dogs place. If that's where you wanna go seamlessly, but in any event, those those copycat, thanks rarely work. The fans realize today, it's just a it's a lazy booking. You're not creating something new. You're just trying to recreate something old in more often that work. Lack hand wants to know anyone else who was considered to play the parts of diesel and razor, but it just didn't work out. No, I don't think. So I don't remember anybody quote auditioning being considered. I'm I'm probably unsure there probably was. But a lot of it was that look thing, you know, they had to have the fiscal appearance does best to get in Glen fit the mold for diesel perfectly because the size and all that we talked about. And then like missing earlier Bogner glancing Bogner had some fiscal traits that that he shared with Scott hall. So, you know, I I don't take anybody else. I can't remember anybody else in the hunt for that and bodied into job. So he didn't question. Glenn GIC assist. The ultimate team player. So he he he had issues sitting Glenn. He kept them to himself. And again it led to something much bigger and better for him. Anyway. Because we knew that Glenn was team guy. You can rely on big victory. Talking about talent. Can I rely on you Glenn Jacobs? Always the answer is always a very prominent. Yes. Absolutely. So, but the only this copycats shit work fitting rally wants to know my question is of Holland Nash stuck around never made the jump to WCW. He think the click whatever become an onscreen stable like the interview or DX headliner. Absolutely. They those those guys were you like them or you don't like him to this day or that day. They they found lightning in a bottle. And they found something that worked whether it was their organic vision. And we knew all along great. It was going to be. I don't know that. But I do know that they had great chemistry. They were organic. And what I saw on TV was what I normally saw in a very similar incarnate. Shen in the locker room area. So yeah, I think and look that would kind of some of the things that I was thinking about and other talked about we got to change how we're presenting. Our product was the new stars new faces Gibson Geist new opportunities to carry the ball. So, but I think that to me would have been a layup as far as them becoming a a faction in WWF at that time, and they would have been very very good at it to the four guys together. Wallman included out of history have deal. You know, it was trying to take care of Sean shown Walton with the most beloved guys in business. And an I thank you look at those a little brother, something, you know. He's a famous guy called me one night to dimmed. I know I was getting paid by the pound. These matches thought his payoff little low nothing. Neither here there. Here's a fun question. We've talked about this a lot today. But here's another comparison. Stephen Flynn wants to know what was the more important accident for the company the curtain call which created Austin three sixteen or Montreal which created Mr McMahon. Well. Man, that's hard to say, you can't have peanut butter and jelly that Bo. Peanut butter and jelly and Austin had to find the perfect foil to to to work with invinci- Cain. The the the most significant he'll in the entire attitude era for WWE without a doubt don't close might be. So it's kinda hard to say I would have to say discovering Austin, I would be number one and one A would be the Montreal screw job where events became this discovered. He was an amazing. He'll when he's when he's not at the grill physician or announcing. And so I think the Austin thinks I, but certainly right there with it was the the guy that he danced with Andrew all that money with and created all the success. And that'd be Vance. Mrs amazing. He'll he loved doing it. He loved being it into the point where even today, you know, the Mr McMahon. Character people actually believe that this in real life is that guy in that's not accurate one last question. And then we'll talk about next week. This one comes to us from the downturn podcast JR. Enjoy portraying he'll on TV. I thought he was damn entertaining. How do you like that one McMahon? Oh god. Well, you know is. I it was defiant. And and and awful see told me one time he says goddamn, your your your fill yourself. Aren't you? I am. It was fun. It was a nice it's like going on vacation in spending one day. Disneyland standing in the lines is kind of cool to at once. But it wouldn't be something. I'd wanna do every weekend. And that's kind of how I looked at being a heel. My point was always a Saint. I thought my skill set was best qualified to be a broadcaster and not a manager or a bump taking character shares out at wanna get into that business. So, but I it was fun for short time. But I just it was hard to determine how misspent is going to be because I wasn't sure where it was going to go Conrad. I didn't know what the eventual what's the endgame here. And that's a big issue. I'd have my biggest bitch would be. What is our endgame here to me assist to confuse the marketplace a little bit to, you know, make our statement that we're not not taking this lying down. Type thing and we own the intellectual property. Emme wrestling fans IP means I didn't know what am I wasn't arrested Mr. years what I p meant it didn't matter. So I think that the heal thing was a phone departure. But what was the big picture? That's going back talked about the punishment. Triple h what is our big picture? We got a young guy that six four that's in great shape. Student of the game. He doesn't drink doesn't smoke. He doesn't know drugs. So why would we forsake those traits to quote, unquote, take somebody to the woodshed for the punishment? Punish it punishment dote was doled out and we move on. But that firing this taken to built off Shawn. And all these atrocities. Was I didn't. I just didn't agree with the severity of the atrocities and how it related to terminating careers because here's the thing. If Shawn Michaels have been fired our title off of what's horsey gonna go. We know where he's going down with buddies. And now what they're getting they're getting the artery at that time one of the top two in ring performers in the history of the business. So you'll give that to get rid of the young guy. Triple h you're gonna have your top star in the world. One of the greatest workers next to Rick the Nate their to their head one one eight depend on your preference. So that didn't make any sense the big picture. So I just think that I think some of those decisions were made out of anger and frustration and not out of spot and thinking things through. How's this gonna help us down the road? And that's got always got to be your vision. When you're Booker or something loans lies how fame this off. And what is our in game? I don't know we're not there yet bullshit. And that's a lot of wrestling that way, this these days lack of long-term planning. It seemed very prominently on television every single week. Well, and we appreciate you tuning in to grilling JR every single week Thursdays. Every Thursday six AM you can count on good ole JR myself to be here. And we you guys sort of drive the ship a little bit. We did a poll and JR leaving WCW to join the W F one. That's what we did last week. And we put a poll up this week and still active right now, you can vote on Mott's Witter. Hey, it's Conrad. So if you'd like to vote please cruise over to, hey, hey, it's Conrad as we're taping right now in your house. Eight beware of dog has a sizable lead that is the next pay per view after the curtain call. It is the one where the building famously lost power midstream and they had to do the show again on Tuesday JR was doing commentary on the Tuesday show. So they story of how the WB WF lost power, mid pay per view. And all the fallout is probably what will be covering. But if you're an old school fan the poll is still alive right now with wrestle ward. Nineteen eighty nine which is the famous match number three between RIC flair and Ricky steamboat from Nashville, Tennessee, of course, the post-match angle with Terry FOX trying to pile Dr Rick flair through the table, and they were off to the races for the rest of eighty nine ninety brought us capital combat which is also on the poll. I can't believe this is not winning RoboCop was here. I can't believe that's real. But fucking rebel cop is on the pole. Yeah. Exactly. See? Topics. Make good shows wrestle war. Ninety two is one of the more famous war games ever, it stinks squadron against the dangerous alliance. A war games that right now is in third place, but you can still vote. Hey, it's Conrad next week and every week after we'll be asking questions at our show account, which is JR grilling at JR grilling. I want to tell you what's coming up here on the show, obviously on the sixteenth. We're going to be covering whatever wins the poll, but the following week on the twenty third we're going to cover over the edge nineteen ninety nine. This is the night where we tragically lost Owen Hart. That is the twenty year anniversary of the show so be covering that one on may thirtieth will cover whatever came in second on the poll that we're running right now. So right now if this Trues up where we are going to get to cover RoboCop on the thirtieth. We're gonna put up a new poll towards the end of may. And we'll have Jake Roberts Vince Russo. Oh, Randy savage and dusty Rhodes on that poll will do a personality profile for the first time here on the show on the thirteenth of June. We're going to cover the clash of the champions seven which has a lot of meat on the bone. We've got the dynamic dudes. We've got the ding dongs have gotten more win the lunatic. And we've got a main event with steamboat and Terry Faulk, and of course, one of your favorites. Dr death is in there with bam. Bam Gordy on June twentieth. We're going to cover the two thousand eight WB draft. And you may not remember that. But I'm sure JR does that he found out. He was going smackdown. And no one's Martin to bump that should be fun show, June twenty-seventh what everybody's wanted to hear since we first announced the show king of the ring. Nineteen ninety eight ereck Andy had a famous call at that show. I don't know. About of about had something come out there that worked you guys working with us this week follow on Twitter. He is at JR v. Hugh on Twitter. I am hey, it's Conrad, but what we really need is your support on the show account. Go there, you'll get all the updates. We wanna give special shout out to Mr. Dave Silva for his incredible graphics that make us look fun every week and all his support. And we hope you guys will support us when we come see you in Las Vegas for star cast. It might be the last JR in the King Live ever. Obviously, they're on different sides of the battlefield now. And we'll get that event kicked off four days in Las Vegas Memorial Day weekend with JR onstage with two of the all time greats Ricky the dragon steamboat and RIC flair or they'll revisit one of their famous matches from nineteen eighty nine star cast shaping up, man. It's going to be a lot of fun. Jim. Absolutely. I just I look at this in amazement as put wrestlers names on paper in booked what you. You know, what you've done. There is the the accumulating the the depth talents. That are going to be on hand is unparalleled. If you are a wrestling fan, you need to get your ass Vegas and join us a lot of fun Memorial Day weekend week Conrad that's not the only way so much as well. Let's say JR, I got three kids job and working part time, another one I don't have the I don't have the time or the money to get the biggest there's something we can fix that. Right. I write star cast on fight dot com. You can get all these shows and glorious HD both live and on demand with unlimited replace. So you don't have to actually be front of the TV that weekend. If you wanna go to the lake no problem, it'll be there when you get home. Check it out. It's star cast on dot com. It's nearly two dozen shows nearly forty hours of content for just fifty nine bucks with unlimited replace and don't forget the crown jewel of the entire weekend. It's the roast of RIC flair see the full lineup of everything that's going on. Right now star cast on fight dot com. And don't forget to tell your friends about the brand new format here on the show. And I do want to throw this out there. I know we've got a lot of our fans who are saying, hey, I really wish JR could still do what's on my mind. Hey, I really wish we could talk about, you know, the the different segments that he had before maybe it's the pick Kundu few award or whatever if you like all that stuff. We are working on a strategy right now behind the scenes to get you a little more content and JR even told you this. But I made a little bit of headway. I think I'm working on it. I don't have it all the way locked in. But I might be about to acquire all of your radio shows from Atlanta back in the day. Cool. And that's good stuff. Man calls. We were way ahead of our time. There didn't even know it. But that's that's great goes Dennis. Brent was you know, he record although shows, and you know, I don't have any pardon me. I don't have any of them. But Dennis shared those with me if you're. A fan of nostalgia. In pro wrestling from that era. You're going to love the shows. So hopefully, that's good news Conrad. You're breaking news to me. And I love what we want to continue to build an ecosystem for you guys to enjoy working with each other other fans, we've been able to do that with some of our other shows there's little communities that really follow Tony Shimon now in Bruce Prichard, and we're going to get that going for JR here before you know, it tune in next week. And if you haven't already go vote in the poll find out what you wanna hear. But if you don't hurry, you're going to hear in your house, eight aware of dog, and what a show that was with no power. But we've got the power to tell you to leave us a review hit the subscribe button and Telefe rant about the brand new format here with good ole JR, it's called grilling JR every Thursday at six AM eastern. We'll see next week right here on Westwood One.

Scott Scott Scott hall WCW Kevin Nash Conrad Thompson Scott hall Kevin WWF Vince James McMahon Shawn Michaels Sean waldman wrestling Wrestling New York City Jim Ross Vance Vincent j McMahon Kevin I Kevin Nashes
Survivor Series '88

ARN

1:32:31 hr | 10 months ago

Survivor Series '88

"Today's episode of Arn is brought to you by me save with Conrad Dot Com and as the holiday season approaches span. I am committed to helping you make this. Yes the best Christmas ever has this for starters. No house payments in December or January. That's right this year can be different. Don't don't put Christmas on a credit card instead. Skip your next two house payments and come February. You're going to have a better mortgage and I'm talking to you. APPEAR TO THIRTY YEAR LOAN. Maybe got credit card debt. A second mortgage. If you've got any of those boxes to check. Let me tell you man. It's not a matter of if I can save you money. It really is a matter of how how much it may be best of all. You don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket so we can't save you some cash. We won't waste your time. Find out how much money you can save right right now for free at save with Conrad Doc Oh by the way. We're licensed in more than forty states. So if you'd like to save money each and every month on your monthly Athle- payment or Pay Your House off Pastor and save tens of thousands of dollars worth of interest. Maybe you've got some credit card debt. We can make that go away right now. Find out how easy it is to save money for your family with my family save with Conrad Dot Com that save with Conrad Dot Com animals number six five zero eight four. Ah uh-huh Thompson you're listening to Orne right here on Westwood. One this Tuesday in every Tuesday on your ride to work tell a friend. I'm hit the subscribe button to hear the Hall of Famer. The founder of the four horsemen the enforcer himself. Aa Arn Anderson. Aren't how are you being. Hello Conrad doing great. Before we get started. GotTa just give one little shout out to everybody that came down to see me in Louisville over the weekend I sure appreciate it. GotTa blast think everybody had a good time and just want to say thank you for that and if you haven't already big up your tickets this weekend. There's a lot down in Winston Salem North Carolina. It's wrestle after the master's she'll be able to see very I live orange show and ask aren't anything anything. You like. Check it out right now. Tickets are on sale for thirty something bucks if you wanted to meet and greet get on to sign something. Whatever you'd like that's available to check it out at orange? Show LOB DOT com. It's wrestle Kate Wiki and right there in Winston Salem. You don't WanNa miss it. This Friday tickets are on sale. Now aren show LOB DOT com hope you have a great Thanksgiving but What I keep the tradition of professional wrestling and Thanksgiving together and make a trip to replicate this weekend? let's get into survivor series man. That's our topic topic today survivor series nineteen eighty-eight and what a big show this was it's your first. WWF Pay per view. I mean even plant fans ask questions stay tuned to the NC. If we ask your question if you ask the question anytime here on the show just follow us on twitter at the orange show. I guess we'll start at the beginning. November twenty four th nineteen eighty eight Richfield Coliseum Richfield Ohio Cleveland. It draws about thirteen thousand five hundred fans as a pay per view beret of two point eight two pretty good numbers man. This is the golden era of pay per view. And this is your first pay per view with the WWF. And we've talked in our archives. If you'd like to check those out by all means please do orange show dot com about you leaving the NWEA noon Tully Blanchard make your way to the World Wrestling Federation at this this point. I guess you've been with the company a little over two months and we've talked a lot about the fact that Bobby Heenan was paired with you. Guys he's going to be your manager and you're GONNA call yourself. The brain busters Mr also a part of the bigger Heynen family stable. We we touched on the name. Brain busters last week in a queue. NEIGHB- what did you think of the name. Brain Busters hosters didn't bother me. It wasn't cartoonish Matter of fact I'm sure just from the reaction done and everyone in the arena stick and forefingers in the air And it was because we enticed it. They weren't allowed to do that. But I think the horsemen thing thing was so deeply embedded you know didn't matter what they called us we're always young bay the horsemen in our minds and in the audience. Mons I WANNA ask This is got to be an adjustment. You have grown up in the territory system. He found home home with Jim. Crockett promotions the NWEA has reached new heights under Jim Crockett and it feels like. That's you know they absolutely big leagues. New Certainly told told us that every time you got behind the microphone that TBS set. But now you're in New York when you're sort of comparing the culture of the companies openings. How would they compare in nineteen eighty eight? Well you know I was still scarred from the the fact that we had to make that decision. It wasn't one that we made easily or without a lot of thought and I thought I was. I was going to be in Jim. Crockett promotions forever and then things took a turn and We made the decision to go to the WWF With a long conversation behind it and we knew it was GONNA be starting over but we also were very confident in our bell dis and when we got there it was totally different. You had a lot more Gaza. Only Crowe there's a lot more production values than I'd ever seen before things were different way. We had a separate day to do interviews for Jim. Crockett Dunham on Wednesday. We did interviews local interviews for WWF when we got to TV so we're trying to get there early be the first ones And Line to to do our promos get those things down. We wanted to make sure they were done properly and It was just a whole different mindset a whole different way of doing business as you did. TV every three weeks think about that every three weeks and there was nothing in between so that alone lone was really really different. I mean did you prefer that or is this the the travel so much more grueling that you preferred the idea idea that we're always have this one home spot every week for TV. Well here was. The you know took a minute to figure this out. The people would have been you know. Hey if you get the TV don't have to work a lot of guys. Were happy about that. It didn't take a minute to figure out for only do ATV every three weeks and we're not anywhere on this thirty three match card and that's about what it was. We would film thirty three matches or so so in that city and they would break it down and make three television shows out of it if you're not on TV for three weeks outta sight Outta mind and then a good. Yeah that's a great point. You know I don't really think about. I've heard the narrative that some Gosden mind not being on TV but to your point that means you're effectively off TV for a month which obviously diminishes your value and we should mention you know TV. Certainly a big deal in two thousand nineteen but it was a much bigger deal in nineteen eighty eight. You know. The the Internet didn't exists. Cell phones didn't exist. The way they do now you know it was more of a bag phone if you had one This was a much different America and TV was is King Fair to say absolutely. TV was your money. That's how you made your money so only way you could get over it was on TV. If they didn't know who you were walking through the curtain at a house show you would go through that period rid of. Who's this guy and what's the all about if you're on TV? I already know who you are. And what you're all about pretty simple formula but it's very true. How are you acclimating to the locker room? Two months in you've mentioned before that you're you're all POW BERRY DR so who's now part of demolition. He's is there you've got a handful the other guys from your territory days by and large are you welcomed. Is it a good fit and you got stay into yourself off the make fast friends with some new guys. What are you recall? Well it's you know. I think Barry paved the way as far as doing what he could do go you know. Hey these guys are okay totally was gonNA have some residual heat because he's just Ali Blanchard. Let's it I mean he is a he'll sail and the fact that his dad at one point owned a territory not knowing if some of those guys work worked for his dad or what their leftover feelings would be about it. Tally had some heat but it was with everybody. The fans the boys you name limit and he just carried himself very cocky and I'm sure had things not went down the way they did go down which each Polish skipping ahead here but when the Rubio's got in the fight with the dynamite that was our the first day of television we were just walking in the door in the back door for her first day of TV almost like it was scripted crafted. That thing went down. I mean mmediately. That's the first thing we walked into so after that. That was a meeting pence called median. I guess there was rigging had led to this over extended period of time. So That's put an edict down. That's it guys. Let's add on the ribbon. Ribbon will not be tolerated period. Did so I think if anybody had anything in mind for us as far as Rabin to acclimate us and however were you want to put it bring into the fold it all got shut down that day so that could have been a timing issue. That benefited us. Who knows? Let's talk a little bit about The travel you know you've told us you gave us sort of the cliff notes version and. I'm sure we'll talk about it in more detail. Another other Tom that ultimately the reason you make the decision to leave the WWF back is because you had young kids and you were on the road all the time. It just felt like you were missing too many of those moments basically because of the increase schedule compared to what you enjoyed for Jim Crockett two months in. Are you already getting the feeling that. Hey I'm going to be working a lot more. Or is it still so new and fresh and find that that negatively maybe hadn't said in. Yeah well I knew immediately. It was a lot going to be a lot tougher but the bigger picture is we had had a handshake deal. Oh in a verbal promise of making more money and it being just nothing but uphill from day one on with that company so we were still on that high and up to that point he was a man of his word. We were being treated real. Well the fact that was though every single morning six. AM flight and if you missed that flight for any reason doc that piece of paper in back in there were paper. Tickets were totally worthless. You had to purchase a whole nother ticket. There was like paying affair or anything. See those tickets were so cheap. It was group tickets. There were next to worthless right so so there's a lot of pressure you know you know everybody's going to sleep Japan at some point especially if you're on last if you've got a bit of a drive to drive to the next town where you can or there's an airport you end up getting to our sleep. It's pretty easy to miss that four thirty wakeup call or four o'clock or whatever it was to make six o'clock flight so it was very demanding. Yeah Yeah I can imagine that That take some adjusting. I guess we should remind everybody. Tell everybody you know what your travel schedule was like with Jim Crockett. You know you're talking talking about six. AM commercial flights here. But with Jim Crockett sometimes the territories were short enough. You could make Dr Other Times. You're on Crockett's yeah. It's it's it's not apples to apples fair to say. Oh No my God. It was anything but when I first got Jim Groggy everything was drives and there were some there were some issues with their scheduling There were some very very very long rods and some that just didn't make any sense but there were all drives was at that point and when business caught on fire they bought the first plane hit anything that was like three hundred and fifty miles above. We get on the plane. And that's the difference in going through some of these back back roads in North Carolina and South Carolina Virginia and Mountain Roads. It took to drive that trip. That's you know five six our trip each way nothing to sneeze at But it was just you know the hotter the company got and and the planes and all the structuring and all that it really what a blessing especially when they added the second plane which financially was probably very stupid. But that's ten seat seat Falcon jet up and down buddy you talking. That was a piece of machinery and at that was I remember one night we got in Saint Louis and we had like a hundred mile an hour tailwind and we're flying to Atlanta for TV. The next day and I wanna say we flew from Saint Louis to Atlanta and about an hour fifteen minutes which is hauling ass pretty good and that was one of the benefits that Crockett had over. WWF and Buddy it was nothing and I'm not kidding for us to have. We will get our stack tickets. And I'll never forget this routing. This was one loop like a five day loop it was Austin out to la by La back to Miami Miami to Kansas City Kansas. The city back to Uniondale now. What sense that made? God only knows. But you're talking about about long flights connections issues incredible And it will. They would answer that with no remorse. And you say here you go. It's a lot different and we should mention you know it's not just you know. Flying with Crockett versus flying with vents wants private ones commercial. A lot of our listeners myself included have never flown private. But I imagine that's a little different than no one through the traditional airport rigmarole. You Bet it is. You don't have any any of the issues of airlines billion overbooked being stuck in a little bitty seat You know you're talking about guys that are two hundred to three hundred under pounds and if you've ever looked at a coach seat it's about Twelve fifteen inches across. Just look at the next time you fly on a commercial flight. Lit The seat in front of you and measure the width. They don't care they're getting richer that being me and the airlines and every seat on both the plays were oversized seats. Comfortable as it could possibly be all all kinds of Adult Beverages for after the show all kinds of soft drinks and everything bathroom. You could get up anytime you won't. You had a nice bathroom on both planes food. Everything it's a whole different experience flying Private talk to me a little bit about the product you know you leave two months prior to this pay per view. Are you still watching television. And all the no. You're you're on the road all the time. Are you trying to get tapes of it when you can or are you. Is that in the rear view mirror. And you don't really care at this point outflung gravel on it in the rear view mirror way back never looked at a show. Didn't care made a commitment to the a new company we were dead set on. I thought that was my last move of my career. said that was it. I won't saddle in here. You know the world they're they're they're expanding the running three townsend nights. Sometimes I'm set. I wasn't I could care less what they were doing. Turner did you have any extended friends or family who you know in your real life who For whatever reason view the WWF has as the quote more big time and felt like it was a really big deal for you to be a part of Vince. McMahon's outfit compared to Jim Crockett's well everybody in the back of their head. There was a saying back. Then I'm going to go to New York. Everybody knew what you mean. It was an. I'm going to go the WWF when a guy was gonNA head that way was hey. I'm going to New York. And we heard the salaries we hurt him from enough people that we believed that the chance to make Lou Cumani was there if possession properly the bright place on the big favor views. The merchandise was absolutely ridiculous. Iron Sheik Eighty thousand dollars for adult for action figure for a quarter. That's for an extra quarter. The money that we were hearing about was just unbelievable. And you would you know you would get bits and pieces and we weren't long enough to ever get positioned in that money slot. which as a team you were we're gonNA ever going to be there anyway? Because vents looked at teams as I semi main event only at best he never looked at teams being in the main event any also it was like one instead of one big payoff. It was one big payoff off divided by two RAF. You had a manager there divided by another you know head so her it. You knew the potentials there you just had to get in the right position and everyone in the industry pretty much Realized that was the top shelf deal that was we heard about the wrestlemainia payoffs and all that and you knew it was possible you just had to somehow Mao get in that position. Touched me a little bit about around loving the the rabbit hole. We're going down here. You know from the the Pop Culture Ultra perspective bids McMahon had had managed to not only have you know as you said the the action figures. And he's on the lunchbox is but he's also got pop culture you know. He's he's managed to get Hulk Hogan cover sports illustrated and Hulk Hogan on Saturday night. Live and you know there is a Hulk Hogan Rock and wrestling cartoon and he's partnered with MTV and he had definitely embraced The mainstream in the mainstream had embraced embraced him rather and he had become his. His creation had become Arnav pop culture in a way that very few other brands do like even today when people talk about wrestling they they sort of just call it. WWe If you're a non wrestling fan you revert. MMA is the UFC and they say oh well he's into that ultimate fighting well it's actually mixed martial arts and he was old that's a wwe move. It's actually pro wrestling move. That's a company but people had started Arctic to associate his brand with an entire industry and much like what people say. I'll have a coke Pepsi. Five Oh yeah. That's fine the guy really just just wanted to soda but he he ordered a coke. band-aid is a brand and Kleenex brand. Did you feel like being part of that brand was going to make you a more more and I know this not. I've ever been your aspiration but you had a better chance to be a quote unquote star with Vance than you did kraken. Well the one thing you couldn't deny is when you would go up north and you would go to Boston and you would go to a New York City and whatever event was running up there and you would go do your normal thing during the day. Go the hotel check in you get your car. You go to the gym. You go out a restaurant at something all the normal things you did during the day you were so much higher profile being on that. TV TV in that area of the country. It made you a bigger star certainly being on that television even though we had boo COO new Tom on. WCBS everybody didn't have WCBS back then wasn't like it was part of your package so there was areas of the country certainly in Canada. You're a bigger star places like that you would go overseas. You would be a bigger star star because the television was so strong it was just unbelievable So you could you could feel yourself self becoming higher profile just from the factor on that TV. Let's talk a a little bit about The NWEA again because in in November Ted Turner is going to Jim. Crockett promotions. You had talked about you. Know the the leading up to this where totally had given his testimony to some Turner exacts. And maybe that Annoy David in Jimmy. When when you finally hear hey the sale happened? What's your feeling now that you know you're out of there because beforehand you you sort of shared with us on the archives which are available eligible for download? Now you weren't sure they're gonNA come in and buy this thing or we're going out of business because something's got to give when you hear that they bought it is there a tinge of I wish I waited to see what that looks like or does that not exist at all. Well timing is everything and and they said when they said out of one side of their mouth Turner were pretty sure Turner's GonNa by the company that was a huge positive sle when they went or we may have to file bankruptcy or that was like blowing the Damn Tuba uh in my ear that went to a whole different level of conversation. 'cause they filed bankruptcy. Now what do you got. You got a company that's immediately you don't have to be broken up and all those jobs are going to have to be fatal somewhere. There weren't enough lifeboats. I wasn't gonNA wait eight to see one way or the other at a family to take care of WHO's GonNa give me the stability who's GonNa stick their hand out go. Hey you're set So you know I never looked back totally never looked back. We started boarded here in about guys at were there. Were signing two ridiculous amounts of money down there'd to come in and do one or two. TV's you wouldn't see him again for three months is that era tainted me a little bit. But that's all it was. I knew you couldn't fix it. I'd made my decision. Had I had to do the best I could with the cards I was dealt. Let's talk a little bit about Your old friends. That are still down there. Rick still down there you still in any sort sort of regular communication with him or anybody else when you're on the road with the WWF in your new job nope occasionally we would have. Have you know recall us from some hotel or somewhere. He'd be drinking or something and you know the usual It was just one of those fine loud lot of noise screaming Sir stuff in the background you can barely make out what they're saying the I mean we stayed in touch but it wasn't a weekly thing or it wasn't might have been a monthly thing more so because he had a lot on his plate right down there as well starting with new ownership and I'm sure having to prove his worth to all those guys down there as crazy as that may sound but yeah. I mean. It wasn't a remember they weren't cell phones back in those days they have now. I mean there were around but they were the size of her frigging lunchbox. Let's talk about when you're getting going here your first match of the company's October Fifth Nineteen eighty-eight. Fort Wayne Indiana. You and totally are going to get a win over Bob Emery and Tommy Angel and from there. You're going to keep working these house. Show loops on your way to the survivor series. Usually against the a young stallions who believe it or not one of which is your future tag team championship partner. Paul Roma and He's Tangling Jim Powers here. It would also work a few times against the rockers. Very Young Shawn Michaels and Marty. Jannati what are your memories of these early show loops against the young stallions on the rockers. Well there's a very very big conversation that went down after our first house show match with the Roma and his partner young stay and Saddam Jim. I didn't no. There was an hour arche there. I didn't know there was an unwritten rule but apparently events told Dr so and bill. Eighty that His plans were eventually for totally out of work with those guys so unbeknownst to us just I work in like we'd always worked and I've expressed many many Tom Watson mentality of being a horseman. What makes you a horseman was our mentality? Warm and tally was to go out and take situation. We were given and have the best match possible period. Well the Berry and bill didn't want us to have the best match possible with GM and Romo because of where they they were positioned which was underneath so when we came back through the curtain expecting someone to say good match guys because the audience got with it. Britain now I see why apparently you know. Gaza were further up the ladder. Justin go out with guys who were position lower at that time and have that competitive of a match so he said Soon as I came through the curtain he grabbed me and said he being Berry. Come over here. So what the hell amount of you guys. You guys are GonNa work with us down the road. You can't be bumping around for those guys. Well I saw he wouldn't kidding and Berry and and I had never had a crossword. This wasn't a cross word. It was a matter of fact. You WanNa work with us where the top team here cut that Shit Out He'd had to tell me but once we started to figure out how much to sell for which team and who was position where from where they were heading with with whoever and it was an IRA arche there and You kind of had to know where your that those guys are going or. You're we're going to know how to no one was going to come up and tell you that. That was a friend that told me. Hey too. Many bumps wasn't somebody buddy from the office. It was a you know they would let you self destruct up there in all that was just part of the you know humour you're sometimes there were so many so many unwritten rules wanted things going down in that company that were never talked about what just happened and so forgive me for being ignorant but wasn't there have been an agent who would have smart and gypsum for that and clearly they didn't who would have been the agent in that era freer matches. Well I mean Jack Lyons was salt of the earth you you know you had ham. You had Rene Goulet had Chief you had a lot of them but you know it wasn't as detailed then because everybody that worked there just about top guys from another company and other territory they would just come in. Hey brain busters over ten minutes or thumbs down ten minutes and that's all the information you get If you wanted more time on the next night you would go ask him. Tell you But no I mean it was you know it was. I don't know if they were even watching the matches sometimes who knows But you would think someone would go. Hey they got bigger plans for you guys. Wasn't that away all right guys as you know by now. Today's episode is sponsored by blue. Remember the days when you were always ready to go when you can increase increase your performance and get that extra confidence in bed so listen up. Blue Dot Com. And that's blue like the color blue is going to bring you the first chewable. What the same? 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You is the better cheaper faster choice and we thank them for sponsoring today's podcast. Let's talk a little bit about the rockers. You had some early matches with them back. In this era they were known for partying and maybe Rubbing some of the older guys the wrong way. I think famously Masui now they had an issue with Andre and a few other guys it. It wasn't always the smoothest road for the rockers. But we're year matches like with him here in eighty eight now. Is this prior to shooting the angle and working with them everywhere. Yeah this is as soon as you come in. I six weeks or they're just a tester pretty much. I knew right away. They were selling special. You know they were both so athletic. They had at a routine down. That was so much more involved Athletically I carry him from working with rock and roll express of experienced many times a loved plus all the other great baby phases. I had the opportunity to work with. Nwea these guys has were special man for whatever reason one of the reasons was probably Shawn michaels where he grew up was out in the San Antonio area and he grew up loving or hating. Telly blanchard whichever way you want to look at it. I've heard him say on record. You know totally was the first I got that. He really gravitated to when he was a fan as a he'll That he respected disliked saul the ability ability all those things and for whatever reason they trusted us and we assured him all we had was that we knew who were going to go out and tear the joint down these guys after the first night. Where if we get our ASS chewed out we get asked you out? I'm not wasting this opportunity. And they. They weren't positioned that will either But man after you know just going out and pretty much just taking twenty or twenty five minutes that we were designated originally to have coming back through the curtain then you started to hear the agents. It's perk up mega job and you could tell when you get back to TV that's might call Yan and go. Hey you know getting really good report shown you guys and everything was full steam ahead one of the things I wanted to ask about is And again I don't know anything about being a professional wrestler. I've never done anything in that room. But we've heard as fans that. WBF rings are different from other rings in that the F. Users ropes a lot of the other more traditional promotions use cables and that the rings were harder that they weren't the quote unquote southern bumping rings. And I guess that means the hatless give they were a little stiffer but also to the size of the ring. It was a little bigger. Can you compare and contrast the differences and what if any challenges that represented to you guys. You know just a couple of months. India run on here. Well that was probably part of the reason that Dr so chewed my ass out. The ring was heavy. It was harder order then. The rain came from Less padding really hard over close to the ropes derange were bigger so You get used to arrange and like if you're getting shot into. The ropes are reversed into the row reversed into a turnbuckle. You get used to a certain amount of steps and it's not something that you counting your head initially You just get acclimated committed to it and it becomes automatic as I can't tell somebody how to ride a bicycle. You get on a bicycle you just take off and okay. I'm riding a bicycle. Same thing with the number of steps it took to cover the rain whether you were being shot in the ropes or buckled buckle that took some adjusting to As far as the ropes being tighter and all that actually there were a little bit looser so they were kick you off a little funky It was a totally different situation. But it didn't take us very long to get used to it But that was probably a big reason that there weren't as many hotspots during the course of a match guys were bumping all over the place. Because ring was hard we should mention that You've got a lot of your other. NWEA brethren here. Tim Horner comes in with the beginning of November Harley races. Is there the big boss man it used to be big BUBBA Rogers. He's there recruit. Is here Akeem. Who you knew was the one man gang? The powers of pain Sam Houston spend lots of your brethren. Are there when you're having to do car trips. Stick to yourself or some of these guys pollen in with you. Know we'll immediately Accou- became good friends with us and started traveling with us immediately and you wanted to have enough room in car but you know tell you and I were just kind of stay on our own. We still K- FEHB wasn't that big a deal with some of those guys house. But I wouldn't show up with Tim Warner. Even though he to this day still a friend of mine wouldn't show up at an arena with baby faces in a car with us. It's not too alves raise. The that's a no no so Hakkudo was a great guy. He and I started healing a room together. Other save some money and He was a perfect fit. That was the main guy that traveled with us and that was pretty much the entire time we were there. It was either the the two of the three of us. Let's talk about Hukou for a minute. Another member of the Heenan family makes sense that he would be a part of your traveling group here. He winds up being sued in the month of November for an incident that happened in Baltimore. Where allegedly he bit the nose off of a man in a bar fight? Do you remember hearing about that. It ain't allegedly. There is a man missing and knows somewhere in the Baltimore Washington intonation area. I'm sure to this day. Yes we heard all about. I've talked about on different Shows that we've had about just who and what Hawke who is. I think we might have discussed it last week. Yeah that's right How you know for some reason he was a magnet for every drunk? That thought they throw a sucker punch and actually do something that he is in his own. League is in his own category if he just a bit guys know songs and that's all that happened to him. 'cause we didn't get explicit details. Guy Should just call her today and go. Hey I'm lucky I'll breath out of my mouth. Because it could have been so worse Hanako in his own league. He is in his own category. He is incredible athlete. Worst three hundred pound tank didn't feel any pain and and if you pissed him off no one no knew what he was going to do but he knew it was going to be quick and over quickly and we call I called him the Human Veggie matic he would step into a guy. You couldn't see around back because it was so wide and whatever he did five seconds later the guy looked like he had had his head shoved in a window fan and I saw probably three instances of things like that. He's just just based and he's a you know if he was your a friend he would lay down in the road and die for you and same way with Bar Burian and his family and all the boys that I've met Roman reigns all those guys use OS. They are the nicest sweetest people home for lack of a better term. The best friends you could possibly have in that locker room if France. Just don't cross them because it gets ugly quickly. And that's Hawker is forever the world champion. Well another world champion in is GonNa join the guys in November The future Mr Perfect Kerr hinting is gonNA come in here. Of course nine years later you guys are going to hook up As part of the whole horsemen thing. What's we've touched on? Did you know Kurt prior to this and did you ever me to work with his dad. Nope a a never met his dad. I just saying Kurt on TV just a few times a day. What though always a huge mark for his ability ability in that rank he was so different and so fun to watch? You could never ever figure out what he was gonNA do next it. It was just a viewing extravaganza. You know and I didn't get excited about a whole lot of stuff but man. That guy was so talented. He was Mr Perfect. You never knew what he was GonNa to do all those things that he did on his videos and stuff as far as hitting a golf ball or Molin era or shooting a basket escape from half court. He did all that stuff. He was one of the most talented guys that ever walked the earth and funny. He's hilarious and it would just walk up to you and he would tell you a joke and you wouldn't realize that he's just saying until he was walking past you. It was one of those things. Oh God that guy just pushed her me one of those things and it was just Was a very unique individual and I think everyone on new. Just how special cart was. I don't know that he ever got his. Do totally should have been world champion at pinpoint for sure man was good. And that's the reason. I push warm so hard to be a horseman because he was that talented. Let's talk about another guy that we've never talked by here on the show allegedly ordering to the rumor innuendo Brian Blair was brought the TV and California and asked to do a job he refused and was fired. Do you remember this incident. Or how common was this for us to Put up a fuss about the curative Rativi and be shown the door as a result. Well Yeah you didn't do that and those days. That was the reason. I wrestled Tom. Magee Tom McGee beat me. No one knew Tom. Magee was a new look great but they had no clue who the guy was but it was a test and in those days you know oh benchmark tests you just random route in the middle of you could be an middle of a big angle with the top guy and he was just happy. Go out there on a dark match lose to somebody that made no sense and he was just trying to constantly test and see where your head was out. And we're going to do business when you got to that big match and the mailman at Wrestlemainia. If you've got there he wanted to know that whatever he had in mind you were going to give him any. You know crap about it you were. We're GONNA do what was asking and that's it was one of his ways of testing. You what do you think of his His technique without what do you mean. I mean what's your opinion. I mean it you said that was his way of testing you did you. Do you agree with that or do you think that's kind of silly. If it doesn't make sense it's well I would if I was in his position. Anybody that entrust to do business wouldn't be working for me. I wouldn't have to do something immature because you know ultimately let's just you know he would. He would argue the point that it doesn't matter that he can make you a star anytime he wants. Well Yeah Yeah. That's true if he in fact chooses to do that. But if you're at a critical point say you've been there just a few months and you're starting to get a little bit of notice in. You're starting to get a little bit of momentum to send you out in Boston or Madison Square Garden in front of eighteen thousand people and get beat by somebody that should should have been carrying your bags on the back door. It probably does a ranch. You getting over in that particular town and you know. That's that's the way I look at it because people would not they were just kind of go solid and look at you and look at each other and shake their head like what the hell was that but his opinion was a when matter from. What if you're going to be a star can make you one tomorrow? And he lived by that Eh that Credo. Let's let's get to the card here survivor. Series nineteen eighty eight. Of course. We're right here. Thanksgiving is upon us so this makes sense for us to go back and talk about and what a good time to Pick up where we started With you coming to the company. Let's go through the card. Brutus beefcake and the Blue Blazer Sam Houston and the ultimate warrior in Jim run Zell Water. Oh cast of characters that is. That's one team and they're going to take on the Honky. tonk Man Bad News Brown Greg Valentine Ron Bass and Danny Davis like a seventeen minutes. That's and fifty seconds mouth is going to refer to the ultimate warrior in the observer as the anabolic The mascots too stars. What as you We haven't spent a lot of time talking you and I about Brutus. The Barber beefcake of course we know I won't be too long and he's going to be pretty over here for the company any What is your experience like in this era working with Ed Leslie? Well he was. He was pretty much glued to Hogan most most of the time when he was there. I can tell you this. I don't remember that match which I'm pretty sure I didn't see it because I was probably stretch into getting ready for Ormat but that cast of characters probably when it was all said and done it was probably the indoor record for lack of bumps honky talked me. I'm pretty famous for that. You and I haven't spent any time talking about hockey talk. Ran The the the Wayne fairest character. All he talked man is GonNa get all kinds of heat. Bruce Richard is even going to refer to him as hot once upon a time for the WWF. You were there during during that run What do you remember about the Honky? tonk man character and fans reactions to him. Now Bruce talking about he was white hot with the audience. I think it was a heat standpoint. He had a lot of heat with the audience. But maybe you're about to Tallahassee had a lot of heat with voice no I know I mean he you know he did his own thing. He didn't take a lot of bumps he He was entertaining and that was at a time that Vance loved entertainment and not that he doesn't today. But you know Augie talk was good with that character and you know he could avoid taking a lot of bombs he would go out and entertain you and To do his thing and he was definitely different. And it was You know having the Elvis look look at all that stuff the whole thing the whole gag was he put his heart into it. He did the best he can do with it. It got over and he was able to make a nice living and the hoggish. Don't let's let's follow up on another guy here that we haven't spent a a ton of time talking about Ron Bass He's he's an old school guy and a lot of fans remember his angle from earlier in the year. I think it was this year it was eighty nine with brutus beefcake. But you probably knew Ron from the territory as right. Well Ron was. Oh you know ride on his final run with Crockett. When I got there he was partners? Were Black Bar. Jj was their manager. That's how earlier this was early. Eighty five rows big man. You know you you take a look at Ron Bass. He was a he was a big fiscal guy and Had A lot of experience had been around worked in Reno Tampa and probably God knows how many other territories big solid solid deep voice. Good Promo Voice. And I really didn't get to know Ron that much what I did get to know. He was a gentleman and Nice Guy. Always you know spoke and didn't seem like that He had any worries about his position. Or what your position was gonna WanNa be or if you were a threat or any of those things so really a came across is just gentlemen. Let's talk about Bad News Brown. He's just going to walk out of this match. Count Out. MELTZER would say if you'll notice every wrestler that means anything to tighten was quote unquote protected without having to do a job except Jake Roberts and they put him in the center spotlight after losing his match. Since bad news has a feud with randy savage upcoming. He couldn't do a job here. We're not talking about the creative necessarily but I do want to talk about bad. News Brown He has An interesting thinks story to say the least. What do you remember about sharing a locker room with bad news in a capsule? What what is that story? Well just you know he He had a reputation for being a bad ass and he didn't lose a lot on TV and he would argue some finish his occasionally and He once upon a Tom. Tom had an incident with Andre. The giant and called Andrei Out non-drug bagged off and he just had a reputation for being someone. You didn't fuck with breath. That's what we always heard and we certainly weren't going to pass it. There was no reason to test those days. Sales were heels and baby faces were any faces and you kept to your home. Whatever your designation was never traveled with him would see Liam in the locker room he had that game face? You know he kept to himself did his own thing. We always hurt. He was real bad ass. So you know and and in those days I you know the guys that were really the bad news. Brown's hakuna barbarians. The real bad asses never barked. You never heard a peep out of they were never allowed until somebody you know. L. Push their button and then you knew for Damn sure they were in the room I didn't hear the Andrei Story. That's one that I would really like to hear from somebody. That was a Erez News. Good knowledge of it because nobody messed with Andrei period. Let's let's talk about the next match your in this one. We've got the powers of pain and the rockers and the young stallions of the Hart Foundation and they're going to be taken on also the British bulldogs got down a lot. What attack teams here? Let's take demolition. The ratios the KISTA doors. The Bolsheviks and the brain busters a meltzer would say this was a really great match with guys tacking in and out and going all out and it was the pace of hot Japanese match until the last few minutes and even says in his right up. Blanchard and Anderson were the highlight of the match particularly their first meetings with other famous tag teams. Like the bulldogs. Brad Hart and Rockers comes down to bulldogs and powers of pain versus in case the doors and demolition ultimately It's written here then aren't signaled. It was time to go. Home and Finish All oh beforehand. So the rockers and brain busters win at the start the feud and both were disqualified. Twenty seven minutes and fifty seven seconds and had a light hearted brawl back to the dressing room. So so this is where you get your Fu- kicked off but he's very very complimentary of your your work here. You got a ton of time like thirty three minutes here in the match. No my apologies. Forty two minutes in this match fakers right three and three quarter stars big time match but cow this has got to be challenging. When you've got ten guys on the Apron to this side and ten guys on the Apron that side and obviously dudes in the middle so there's there's eighteen dudes on the apron apron that's got to be challenging work around on Stu Screaming Shits and let me tell you why and for the eighteen years hours our producer? I ask periodically not every year but every few years. This was the one thing if you think about it you gotta go. I'll I'll I'll be damn. Do you know how stupid you feel. We got this match going on and you got the whole theory of survivor. Series is when the matches over the way you win the match as you still have members hours of your team surviving and there are no members of the other team left correct right. That's the theme of survivor series. Raise the thing. I could never get past. That made no sense to me. Is You would have a Finnish go down right in front of four guys who were standing in their three feet away and nobody made save. What sense does that make? You would never want one of your teammates to you. Get beat because that lesson your odds of being the sole survivor or survivor with all your teammates or half of them or whatever it was just one of those things I could never get an answer to our when I would ask they would look at me and I will get that looked like Shared he's trying to make sense out of insensible business again but when it was all said and done if it didn't make sense to me and I would try to go back and analyze every rematch. I was in okay. Wasn't a four star match but did at least make sense. Maybe it was a four star match. But there's still make sense was was it a two star match. Did it make sense as long as it did. Okay with those guys. Remember vaguely the what we actually did. But with all those talented guys with the hearts and the bulldogs all those great. Maybe faces Man We could you just go in and tell the joint down and I'm sure we just we did. We got with those guys during the day and say hey man we WANNA feature everybody if we possibly can. That's what we tried to do The fact that we bailed out with the rockers fight to the back just kind of takes away from the action in the rain so it was just one of the you know they could have beaten us that night. That would've been fun. Just let us do something once we get to the back. Maybe when the matches over you cut to the back and we're kicking their ass in the back or something. We didn't have to do a fight all the way down the the aisle we'd been beaten quite a bit trust us Getting beat one more time by those guys wasn't afforded us your first time working with Bret. Hart's gotTa be here right. You wouldn't ran across him before. No what did you think you know I mean. Obviously we're talking about not hard another time but Brennan in particular known for being one of the all time best in ring technicians technicians. Was that your testimony here in early. Eighty eight very solid brat was a wrestler's wrestler a You know he was very talented. And he wasn't a flip flop and fly guy you know Brett locked to mix it up and swap holes and all that stuff and you know made everything credible bladon John George What about the bulldogs? We've often heard wrestling fans that Donna. My kid was a special talent whenever I suggest that to Richard. Hey says I never really got it. But Bruce was never in the ring with him. You were what say you well. The thing was even no no. He was gassed up and jacked up. It looked tremendous still wasn't a big put him in that category with Crispin Wa. You would look at him ago. That's a good looking athlete. But he's not he's not six three he's not two hundred and eighty pounds housing. An affair with these bigger guys once a match got started hearted and he started laying into nobody question. How big was they? Were a really good team. And they didn't work like body guys and you know so when it was time to get after those guys will take some bumps and they would give you some option. They were you know. They were very accommodating as far as working heart art so we enjoyed working with our love to work with them a program. Let's talk about Some of your tag team partners here the conquistadors as the doors the Bolsheviks the Rubio's tell me about those teams as best you Cam Well those you know it was. I didn't pay that much attention. We're we're just were put out there Together with there was really which I guess is part of the the allure. We're to it at that. Time was just put a bunch of random teams together We didn't try to do anything in conjunction with those guys and they certainly truck got didn't try to do anything in conjunction with us. It was just do their thing and get out. When it was time to get put out they got put out How did you find out? It's time somebody giving you a safe. As the referee communicating with someone ringside. And they tell your I know you're weird about communicating some of S.. So you can tell me to shut the fuck up on every ready. But this seems like a giant cluster when he got twenty Dukes here and it's almost a battle royal the way he said oils time for you to go out. Oh but if you're in the middle of the sheet how do you keep up with that. Well it's up to you you know you know when you're going out and who's putting you out and that's really everything else you're just calling on the fly and making it in if you don't talk to guys during the day when you get in the end up in the ring with him in those days heels around the match period it was up to you. If you had a great match and those days agent will come up to you or whoever it was and they were go. You guys had a great match. Thank you if the match stock the hill got his ASS chewed out. It was own him. So you were trying to make sense of what let's just say we're we're going to put out whoever whatever team you wanna be's the bulldogs. Okay how can we get them as high as we can possibly get them. And how can we use our team work to screw those guys Because you just didn't want to others hi this is one of the spine. Buster Davey Boy Smith. My God and counting one down one to three. There's no heat it. There's no heat in that and people were just look at you know even though I I did do that to Sean and one of these same matches which was pissed about. I think it might have been the very next year. Our last pay per view their or mine. But but that's where another day another story That was what we get your out. Third be put out by the case adores whatever it was up to you guys to put it together. I say as far as the time hugh though like when do you know when that's been I mean I mean. Obviously they've got a back Tom the show and they want the show to go off the air at the same time. I don't think this is the. IFP era is there someone at ringside on a headset puts the pencil in his mouth of Texas tire. Some silly like that somebody would get word to the Somebody on a headset word to the referee. Somehow yeah okay got it. So and so's time to go. He would just come over. And Hey time to get out and you would take a minute or so to adjust whatever you had to do. If you're you were on the Apron and it was your turn to go out. You just are screaming it. Whoever around they get real hey give me give them to me and the guy would know? Okay okay must be. It's time to get out. And they were tag out you come in do fetish. We've often talked about with Bruce Prichard the Essentially the the road warrior ripoffs and the WWF. In this era had tried to sign Hawkin. Animal they were unsuccessful. A lot of fans assumed that demolition were supposed to be the road warrior. ripoffs I think Bruce would say well if there were roadway ripoffs. It was the powers of pain Your friends will bury Dr so you worked with the powers of pain and the OAK rocket days. Do you think need to one of these. Were were roadway ripoffs ripoffs. I never worked with powers pay or Kabar Burien back in the day no remember they were bad guys. I got you. Heels did not work with heels the first time that occurred which made it so monumental and special was horsemen in the midnight express because it was the first right number one bear Dr so and bill eighty were good workers. Yeah Fair Dr Show was a big dude in he could go. I mean he could work like a you know and and during these matches if you go back and look at mm-hmm I doubt very seriously if anybody vertical suplex Badar so before I did a uh they just didn't work like that you didn't muscle them around you know you didn't. It wasn't the thing to do. And we would plug log one or two of those things in there that that were just very foreign to anything that ever done before and that was their contribution to help him get. Get us over I don't think they were trying to be the road. Warriors in any fashion thought. They had a cool look at music was awesome and the guys were just too big is in there. That didn't do anything they you know. They brought it and they were fun to work with. I loved it. Let's Let's talk about the road warrior aspect for it. Sounds like what you're suggesting is demolition. Weren't roadway ripoffs because they they could work But perhaps powers of pain were no. They had their own thing. You know warlord was six six seven and I wanna say it was damn near four hundred pounds. When he was at his biggest didn't want to go down he wasn't GonNa go down and he didn't go down much? He was the biggest all those guys and when he was at his biggest my God was he a monster him. Women Barb They were not big bumpers What you saw was absolutely legitimate? When they did their bench press angle with the road warriors? I was in the gym overall South Boulevard out here in Charlotte where we try and I can't remember the name of the Jam. It was a gold and then it became something else but when they were going to do this bench press angle with the road warriors. Those guys took it serious and buddy they were train in in a walked in one day and warlord. And Barb had five thirty five on the incline. This was not a Smith machine only incline on doing sets of five to those Jim folks out there. I saw it with my own eyes. You'll know what I'm talking about. That's impressive passive So there was room for one team like that out in my opinion per company. And that was it if you got two of those guys in the same ring two teams. There wasn't going to be a lot of fallen down which translated translated into not a Lotta action and lot of not a lot of story talented just four monsters. That can't get the best of each other. I don't know how exciting that would be. Is You know going into this match. That the bulldogs were finishing up. I mean you alluded to the the the issue that an and fans no story of of Donna. Mine shocker show and jock finally gets revenge with a roll of quarters but This is it for the bulldogs. They're don after this. Did you know that before you went out there. I don't know anything about them. Have that kind of heat. I knew the bulldogs ribbed. Everybody knows pretty. Stout and ribbing was pretty rampant before this deal went down but as far ars specifics. No didn't lets US moving along here. Let's talk about the next match. Look at Andre Andre The giant and Dino Bravo and recruit and Harley race and Kurt haning taking on Jim Duggan Jake Roberts Scott Casey Ken Patera and Tito Santana. Sure we'll talk about some of these other talents another time. But I wanted to ask you specifically about Ken Patera The old roommate and friend of Rick Flair. Of course he's going to have a brush. I shop with the law and credibly strong human being quite the character of save least. Do you have any interesting. Kim patera stories. I'm embarrassed has to say I never saw kimber tear work and that's I just you know whether I was doing something else. If he was on the card with me and I don't think he was there very long that I was there. If my recollection is correct correct you would know probably more than me. I know that he was legitimate. As far as the weightlifting went when he was only gas asa looked absolutely incredible. And Hey you know Olympic weightlifter. I I think it was the first guy to put five hundred propounds over his head and that and that is claim to fame something like that. I mean that's that's ridiculous Candy was always a gentleman. A Wasn't around him very much. And I. I don't have the recollection of seeing him ever actually in a match. But I can't imagine him be a bump at a fool either whose Who Do you think was the who was the real tough guy on the heel side Andrei Dino Rick Rude Dude Harley Well Harley for sure and probably Rick Rude it's amazing with all that you know especially sleep with Andrea on the side. Obviously Andre can do what he wants. But you've heard that you know Harley race was a legitimate bad ass and I think everybody has thought that about recruit for a longtime record yet amass what road and all he was a he was a great guy. But you know when it was business. Tom Tom to deal with business and take care of business. He was very serious and he took his business very serious and personal and he wanted to go allowed and they won't be get over and he wanted to get it the match over and We had always heard from the guys you know. That rude was tough and I I believe it. Let's just say we put Andre in his own category in. He's not in the mix and Harley. The stories of him knocking is out in bars with one short left. Or you know why God those things are legendary. So we're GONNA finish our four match card that's right there's just four matches here. I will the twenty nine minute win for Hercules. Hillbilly Jim Coco. Beware Hogan Randy Savage It's got to be one of the first times that Hercules Hillbilly Jim and Coco beware. We're GONNA main event and they're going to get a win over Akeem big boss man. Hukou the Red Rooster and Ted DB Aussie and the heel manager collection on. The hillside is incredible Bobby Heenan slick and Virgil pulling out all the stops here. The bad guy managers We start to see a little bit of teeth. The Red Rooster is going to be Becoming a baby face because because both heat and an slicker yelling at him when he loses the fall. We spent a lot of Tom for better or worse talking about Terry Taylor. And the Red Raiders. Red Rooster character on some podcasts. The Terry Taylor stories. You could share with us. Well Main Terry Taylor. Being Terry Taylor was a good good solid worker. You know very good The Red Rooster thinks that was a Reeb. Everybody knew it was a rib. You're for grown ass man in the middle of a new start clucking don't fly for me. Sorry ended in flop for the audience. It was just one of those things that and had terry not went with it. Full bore and and you know it would have just buried. I don't know if it didn't bury him anyway because fans don't forget they're not signing your check but down the road if you go to go to another company and you did something so damn silly up there than adjust crucified. What you had been prior to that they were going to react to you and if they didn't react react to you you didn't get over that next company? Guess what you might be retired. And that's the reason we were so thankful that if I wanNA stick brain busters as tag on us. That's fine you know. They didn't give us any issues about our work. Our costuming any of those things were very grateful. Grateful because I saw some really bad gimmicks up there that no one could pulled off and it was just for what was considered entertainment entertainment value entertainment for WHO. That's your question are you. Are they all these guys doing. This skimming is an entertainment for four a audience of one and we know who that one is or they actually tried to do it to entertain the crowd route and some was just so awful that it just killed careers. Let's talk about that for a minute. Because Ted DB the Aussie was a bad acid. midsouth here is wearing shimmery suits. And he's cartoonish millionaire villain. The Red Roosters got a red streak in this hair. And Terry Taylor's clocking around big BUBBA. Rogers who was a silent bad assets now corrections officer. Who Beats Inmates Nights? The one man gang shucking and jiving and Cohen the African dream as a mock of dusty. Rhodes the American dream and they're even having him then. Flag Dusty. Did he's doing she even though he's a white guy and they've got coco. Beware here with Fucking Bird Hillbilly Jim is Yakking it up Wacko local yokel and you are just here. Plane claimed trunks. And you're playing tights and your satin jacket. How the Shit did you dodge this bullet you stuck with the four horsemen doctrine? Once I was there long enough I could go out and do and it didn't take very long once. I got past the first six months or so I could go out and just do what I did. And that that was guys over get matches over bust my ass. Try to make you at least for that twenty minutes. It's believed that something plausible was going on in the ring. We didn't have a gimmick we had to adhere to and we could just go out and just work our ass off in a lot of cases when guys were working thirty and you know and that route towards the end here was the schedule you. We're on Ten days on three days off five days on three days off and then it would start over again and you start doing the math on that. You're only home six days a month tour. Those are travel days. Okay so that brings it down four days a month you gotTa repack one day. So that gives you like to clean days a month to be home which is horrifying and and that took a toll on guys and we're guys were cut corners would be you know they wouldn't go out. And just buster ass some nights if the house was built. Or you're on a small town you know. They had travelled you to death that day. You know they'd take a little bit of a coffee break and not you know certainly not everybody but some guys would. We never did We gave you the same match in front of three thousand people in Poughkeepsie. That we give the garden and I think that's what sustained US yes They never tried to mess with us as far as giving us some some stupid gimmick or doing something that just was just foolish So that's how we dodged the bullet I think they just. They knew where they had been actually said to us one time and I don't remember when it was but he said you guys give credibility to my company which was one of the things I never forgot. It's it's a big compliment he ever gave us hypothetically if he would try to put a bird on your shoulder. Overall rawls are made you clock. What would have been not no but hell no and you just want to rid out and Turner? Who's to say what I would have done I know that I wouldn't have been very good just being some Jakov character you know. My entertainment skills are not that good. It's just it's weird to think about your old Buddy Berry Dr. So he's going to come the such a great spot here with demolition. Become one of the all time greats. You know people are still talking about the militias being one of the best tag teams ever and certainly a team team that made a lot of childhood memories for Gaza Aids. I mean they were one of my favorite tactics as a kid but man has next character the Goddamn repo man. This is hard to imagine are named Persson and a character like the repo man. Well what probably done installed a plane ticket home. That's what I would have. repoed now you know. It's one of those things where adjust it was what it was and you saw a lot of things just like you said you know one man gang who was Jesus what was six nine ten mock four hundred pounds looked incredible that one man gain Mohawk. And this is Jean Jacket and he scared you to death. So what do you do you make a fool out out of him you know. He's the Dan is the dancing bear. It had to just be for entertainment value. That's all but but for the ball also also because it wasn't getting over and you just took a big guy that had a proven track record. Just kill him completely off. Let's talk about In this era you know you come through the curtain you finished your match. You said that you thought it was a difficult match and it was you know she hits the shower and hit the road right away or in this era you expected to pay respects and stick around and watch as the rest of the rest of the matches in today's Today's world back then nice and eighty eight. What were you oh no you would? You would sit there and try to figure out what went wrong and you would while it's fresh in your head. Try to fix it for the next day. Okay okay. This didn't work We'll try this and you would go ahead and document it and put it in your mind dedicated indicated to memory and you would get a shower because there was always a trip after the show. It was either a flight like I said six exa clock. That's on the plane in the air. That means a four o'clock wake up if you're staying right there at the airport if you're late and you don't get back until twelve twelve Tom. You eat something and get to sleep. It's too you're up at four. Do the math. You've had a pretty long day so guys wouldn't hang around when they we're done. There were allowed to leave and they should have been with the travel schedule. That there were under meltzer would say of this car overall. This was the best book major card in in years at least as far as the ones I've seen the announcement. The announcing was excellent. As well particularly Jesse Ventura who was far more prepared than it wasn't Wrestlemainia. The camera work was just fine on overall. That was as good of a show is the quality of the matches and workers involved would allow of course. It's also the first time we get a tease out a little bit of a rift between Hulk Hogan the Macho Man Horse. They win the match. And they're your soul survivors but there is a tease. There's trouble a Bruin This is going to wrap up your first pay per view in the WWF. If you've been part of several big events for Jim Crockett promotions overall. Were you happy with the experience of working big. WBAL paper you. How did it compare Torque a pay per view for JCP? Well on on the for. Jim Crockett if you try to compare that match to be in a cage with the rock and roll express with all his partner no comparison. I was fortunate enough to be in some big matches. Some more games soon. You know some singles Dusty Russ on the road warriors in Chicago comes to mind you know a lot of things being on the rock and roll summer sizzler. Tour all in our with rock and roll express running around after the bashes for a week and two smaller towns and say a Florida South Carolina do forty four grand which was unheard of back in the day. All those things considered we were just a small part of a bigger picture with WWF. And when you're surrounded by that many guys in one of those matches you know it's just pitch up and smear for forty minutes. That's really all you walk away from. And if in those days I guess the audience was fine if the physicality was was good and they were excited and the spots were good. They were happy. And if they were happy the office was happy. And so on and so forth the relative infancy pay-per-view before a big show like that. The one of the agents are Vincent Man. Get everybody together and do a bit of a raw raw. Oh speech or run through any sort of news notes that you need to know in particular about the show no fences in his office. If you have have to go talk to him you have to get a you know. Invite you got to be outside his door. Let somebody know that you're trying to get into Sam and all that there's not a there's not okay guys we got a full house. 'cause you had full houses all the time back down was Wasn't that that big a deal. It would just be on the ages and Look Jasper Jack. Lanza was really good. If you asked him a question he would try to get you an answer and I love Jack. David could have no no. The good guy should mention just one year prior to this year In Chicago wrestling the road warriors. Just like you talked about stark arcade eighty seven. And now you're later you're here sur