10 Episode results for "Italian Space Agency"
172: Tabbys Star Theory
"In fifteen seconds guidance journal and nine ignition sequence spence nuts three to to kneel good hello and thank you for joining us on another edition of the space ice nuts podcast episode one hundred and seventy two. My Name is Andrew directly your host if you're joining us for the first time if your joining us for the one hundred and seventy second time I'm sorry I've Said My name one hundred seventy times and with me as always for the one hundred and seventy second time is professor Fred Watson however Ed. Hey Hey how you doing andrew. I'm good. The question is how you you're jetlagged fool bits of still somewhere in the Indian Ocean. I think the most most of me here and that was a bit grumpy bit so that's always the big ticket time I now. Where did you go so I was. I had to weaken in Munich or in a small town near Munich. Co Gagging thing which is where the European observatory has its headquarters so there's a very pretty impressive headquarters building an all the other things that as well as a rather marvelous planetarium the Supernova planetarium which was only opened last year and so that's an exhibition commission it if anybody's ever in Munich and interested in astronomy that is definitely the place to go sessional Expedition Exhibition the the planetarium itself is state of the art projection. It very very good so I was at a conference. They're talking about education in astronomy which uh was something close to my house and yours too and then I had the weekend in Rome a half hour before it was actually because I spend and most talented motel room preparing tilk mill deny at the Australian embassy ahead engagement that in fact how the lovely day of meetings at various very interesting organizations like the Italian Space Agency enough the headquarters of the Italian Astronomy Research Organization also accompany a coal telespazio which is a company that does a lot with with the space agency that they do some amazing things on observation and things of that sort and wound up with the Nuclear Physics Research Josh Institute whether they're actually collaborating with scientists in Australia in Melbourne to to build a adopt matter matter detector in a in a disused mine to play skull style which is between I think between Melbourne and Bharat so that was interesting interesting but another highlight which would really only be interested straddling listeners. I think is on Sunday morning. I was at a memorial service. He's not in the Vatican but not very far away for ten. Fisher a former deputy prime minister nizing black. I met him a couple of times interview a couple of times over the years. I have never come across a politician who genuinely came across as as is a true gentleman that he stood head and shoulders above so many people in in such a ruthless game as politics and and he always seemed like he made he was just a fabulous fabulous guy yes. He's somebody very sorry never to have met because I would love to talk about with him because he was a train and Choosey off his stride but he towards the end of his life he was actually the Australia's embassador to the Holy See which is why there was a memorial service for Rome and so it was an honor to be invited to attend that and as a guest actually the president embassy to the Holy See so that was that was very good in very very moving and very very fitting to yes very fitting for a great man. He wasn't quite honorable blog now speaking of the Australian government one of the things we'll be talking about today as a strategy is gift to NASA has gone down like a lead balloon in the local media I might add we previously talked about tabbies star and the mystery surrounding the reason that it sort of if dims and then doesn't and then it deems again and now they have a theory we also look at Venus could have once been habitable well and what went wrong. I suspect the occupants of Venus burn fossil fuels for a couple hundred years and then all hell broke loose not that that's what's GonNa Happen here and we'll answer some questions about gamma-ray bursts gravitational waves and their effect on atomic clocks and whether or not a blue shift indicates indicates a universal collapse. Somebody's got plenty of spare time or just really really worried about the future. We'll get onto all of those very very soon but damn what have we given to NASA frayed. Oh it's well. It's that's interesting bit because yes it's a gift to NASA of one hundred fifty million dollars spread it over five years from the straddling government via the struggling space agency to support NASA's plans for trips to mas in the end and of course the moon as well which is regarded as a stepping stone to Mas however it's interestingly you know yes a gift Anassa but released a gift to Australia because they deal. I think means that most of that money we'll probably come back to Australian industry. It's all about engaging Australian into industry to support ticipal NASA with is technology and with you know some of the some of the ideas that needed to to to bring about text production not so there's a headline I read today about some of the autonomous vehicles used in the mining industry. Have you know they've got characteristics. That might be useful in developing vehicles my bell to explore Mars I mean Nassar's got a pretty good track record on that with three very successful rovers four if you think it was pathfinder as against Alga but no I mean I think I think it's an interesting area of of research and I think I think it is actually a good thing that we visibly supporting Nasice a you work in it is of course only eight point seven percent of Nasr's annual budget that we've given to them but that's all right. That's still gonNA make a difference and of course of course you know the the negative press that sort of came along with this announcement is obviously based on on very very narrow focus why putting money into the draft instead et Cetera et Cetera but we've got to be there for the future. We've got to be involved in space travel and space exploration and space industry otherwise we're going to be a very lonely country in the long term future. Gotcha and in this game things one hundred and fifty million dollars not a lot out of our budget Ada. I think one of the the one of the telling statements came from Andy Thomas Strategy is first astronaut actually wasn't Australia's first astronaut but that was Paul scully power but a well known Australian astronaut Mary Todd and on the made the point that you know he's been a big supporter of this strategy. Spicer at agency was instrumental in getting it going instrumental in the fact that he's moving is going to be based. His permanent base will be not alight light is currently based in Canberra but will move to Adelaide probably around the end of the year but he's coming was great to see the space industry as the space agency engaging with human spaceflight because most of what we do in Australia in the space in terms of spice presence is about scientific and industrial applications but not necessarily human spaceflight whereas this is definitely directed towards that goal so it expanding the the horizons of the Space Agency. I think quite a good way stuff all right now. Let's move onto tabby star. We've talked about tabbies star before it's an unusual situation because it has this strange habit of dimming and they haven't really been able to understand why this is a star. We've known about for a long time but now they seem to have come up with a possibility as to what the answer is here for it. Yeah that's right some some work. That's that goes. A paps puts a another a block of stone in the edifice our understanding of this object. We should give it its proper name which is k. for six to eight five too young to me only went down. Ask often known as bought by Jan Star. I'm not sure whether I'm pronouncing that correctly but it was but John who noted they you know they the curious behavior of this style which is basically aw I mean it's very unusual fluctuations in his light so it came out originally from the the Kepler Space Telescope program which was looking thing for the dimming of stars planets passing in front of that parent stars and we as spoken about many times before that netted the current total of just overfull at the current total of just over four thousand known planets around other stars there are other ways of detecting them but the so called transit method which is what capital's done actually is the one that has been the most productive. It's been eminently successful way of detecting planets in Kepler. Now has a follow up mission cold tests which is doing a similar job on in the whole sky so tabby star is in the constellation of cygnus. It's about is getting on for fifteen hundred light years away as the crow flies so it's not a another nearby star but what mocked it out was these very unusual fluctuations. Russians in its brightness not the kind of thing that you would get from planet passing in front of it which would Jupiter sized planet passing in front of the some jockeys his live by one percent so this knots the typical thing you're looking for when you're looking for extra solar planets but Tabby Star drops by up to twenty two percent which is huge and Dosa in peculiar ways not a planet planets planets aunt blocking the lot. That's something is blocking the light but but not planet and I think my recollections looking at previous. Welcome tabby style. There is a sort of quasar periodicity by that amendment you know the the drops in brightness whilst they're not strictly periodic by that's with regular frequency they they have that they're vaguely superiority it kind of put it that way so although they vary. I think the twenty two percent one was a one off and the other thing is that a astronomers have looked at measurements of the brightness of this over very long periods of time because what you can do when you know that you got something interesting you can go back to Kabul photographic plates taken over the last hundred years or so look at how its brightness has changed if it has so how how how its brightness is held up and it turns out that this the star has faded in Brian is by think it's fourteen percent over about the last hundred years is not in itself is a curious curious phenomenon that doesn't really seem to be explained by astrophysics of the Star itself which is actually a similar start the sun. It's actually an type star. Gt On starbucks it's it's similar similar type of star so people have proposal pose all kinds of things like swarms of comet one. I think you talked about is the possibility of dyson sphere being directed around the star dice. Fear is hypothesized. Edifices put out star by an alien civilization to collect all the light light yet but only energy from the start so that that was another suggestion I think that's probably the far end of the hypotheses. He's it's it's only now though that I think a reasonably coherent picture of what might be going going on has been put forward and it's come from a group of astronomers who I remember rightly. Let me just check where they they are at Columbia University which is an interesting place because they're gonNA be publishers of the new book when it comes out in the United States just as ask why not exploding stars Visible Planets Cola in Australia but that's alright so strongly present Columbia University of built this model level of what would happen if you had another planet in orbit around the Star but the moon of the planet that has been pulled away from its parent and planet by the styles gravity and he's being destroyed basically by the style and it turns out that the all the numbers add adop- if you've got this situation that this basically you've got a a moon that is falling to pieces. It's evaporating and the kinds of dimming of the parents that you see match what you would get from this model so it sounds like a fairly complicated construction construction the the theory that led to this but it seems to be that it does fit all the pieces. Actually one of the authors says is Let me just say he's actually one of the one of the one of the researchers working on this says. The team's team's model is unique in each hypotheses what drives the original planet towards the Star in the first place so that the planet itself is also being disrupted it actually results in the often exo moons ending up on highly eccentric which means as long as it orbits with precisely the properties previous research research had shown when needed to explain the dimming of tabby style no other no other previous muddle was able to pull all these pieces together gather so this model for all seems a bit contrived actually fits the data and that's that's the good thing about it so it suggests that it's you know this this exo moon's an extra mode of course is a is a moon around the next to a planet planets around another star. It's got this dusty out to layer of ice gas and perhaps cable carbonaceous rock as well and basically this is all foaming this around tabby star and giving us these peculiar variations in brightness including as the dust builds up a dimming of the star itself over a long period of time yeah I would as the dust thickens the the light gets held back bit by bit by bitten. Yeah it reduces the amount a lot. We detect it makes perfect sense. It's a simple explanation in the end of things. Isn't it yeah that's always you always apply what's called otms razor which is the simplest explanation possible and whilst this is a complex. It's nevertheless similar to what we've already a well. I'm sure it'd be more learn once they the daughter together on Tabby star but it does sound like they're run on the money with the with the explanation you're listening to space nuts. Andrew here with of course Professor Fred Watson. This episode is brought to you by Xerox today. Xerox is all about enabling the era of intelligent work from industry leading hardware and software solutions to workflow automation and new innovations like three D. printing and hyper spectral imaging. We're not just thinking about the future. We're making it. LEARN MORE AT XEROX DOT com slash made to think space nuts before we move onto the next topic topic. Fred just a another shat to say thank you to our patrons. We're getting more and more people signing up to patriotic to support space nuts. We so much appreciate that and of course as a patron. You'll have access to the commercial version of the show. I know some people get that anyway. It depends depends what part of the world you're in but that's one of the benefits and we slowly putting together other benefits which we will let you know about down the track so yeah well. Thank you for signing up to patron you can do that if you would like to support the program at Patriotair. Dot Com slash space nets as I've said before. It's not mandatory. We're not going to crack you either the hey if you don't it is a certain you know it's only an option and it's totally up to you but the thank thank you to everybody who has supported us through patriotic dot com slash space nuts it. It won't go unnoticed and we really appreciate your support. What now frayed we are guided talk about the planet Venus now. This is a place that's hideously warm has gotten at righteously out of control greenhouse effect going on but now a new study suggests that at some stage in its dark past it may have been a habitable until something horrible went wrong. I'm thinking you know inhabitants burning fossil fuels but I could be wrong about that so yeah. What's what's the the story behind this. This is fascinating it is it's some very interesting modeling of of Venus that has been done with some as you said quite surprising results also yes. Venus is closer to the sun than we are but that is not the full story when it comes to planning my Venus is so much hotter than the earth because the surface temperature in the region in four hundred fifty degrees. Celsius is quite a lot hotter than the days it. That's all about the the greenhouse in house environment that that decision in other words atmosphere so Venus's atmosphere like yes has not been in it but is also rich richer in carbon dioxide than the sin so traps the heat and the surface temperature rises enormously and then comes as with all kinds of very peculiar effects on the atmosphere things like sulfuric acid drizzle that happens a high highs in Venus's atmosphere it. It does make a place that you shouldn't put on a bucket list for holiday. So why is it like got well. There's a greenhouse you know a runaway greenhouse effect has exactly exactly as you said but I think what's interesting about. This piece of research is that people have actually really salted seriously looking at why should being you know what was it inevitable that that would happen. with the planet that is near to the sun the Earth is and the answer is apparently not what what this group of scientists have done these people who based at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies so it's not you no. They're not fly by night astronomers or anything like that. Although most astronomers a fly by night against the nation so looking at they've looked at the things like the topography of English the the actual structure of the surface they've looked at the what we know about Vulcan Ism Venus which is that it was in fact we know at Venus actually has more volcanoes than any other body in the solar system so it has has had a very active volcanic past but they've also looked at the you know the kind of phenomena that we know stabilizes the atmosphere and what is Ketu the atmosphere big stabilized is actually play tectonics as I think we've discussed before the fact that a plate tectonics he's a means of getting carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and into the into the crust of the Earth a basically the the carbon dioxide either goes directly into the oceans are subject to carbonic acid is absorbed that way but either way eventually finds its way down to the seabed and you get carbonaceous rocks building up. I mean I'm talking now about geological Michael Time that is then subjected under the under the continental place and that is a great way some of it comes back up through volcanoes but it nevertheless stabilizes the carbon dioxide content in the atmosphere so what the model is who have done this work have have built into their idea is that Venus actually was a world similar to the Earth for most of its history plate tectonics tonics. did that thing the atmosphere to perfect level surface liquid water. Perhaps perhaps a stable climate very much like that of the Earth then they speculate that may be a billion years ago perhaps seven hundred million years of something that sold something happened to change that and the they they run a whole of hypothetical scenarios in that muddling and come out with something that actually fits the bill rather well which is up for a seven hundred million year ago event that would have basically stopped the the plate tectonics in that tracks and stop this. you know this carbon dockside sink. What suggesting is that a some sort of? Vulcan ISM probably released a huge amount of gas pass into the atmosphere Venus and effectively a you know that that that gas basically was it was produced by some intense balkanisation which together with highly gaseous envelope also oh so the sealed up the surface with with what would it be multi magnet but then solidifying on the surface and stopping the plate tectonic cycle and that happened at a global level not a global level. Yes so something really very very significant. Nothing like the kind of things that for example we know that there was five hundred million years ago. Earth was allowed scale outgassing into the atmosphere from from vulcans which produce something called a Siberian traps which I think if I remember right near that lava flows there was a mass extinction as a result of that but but that's small beer compared with what evidently must've happened on Venus paps roundabout the San Antonio Mora Brasilia in order to produce what we see today which is a planet with a runaway greenhouse effect. It's it's a really interesting idea. They the you know you are once again relying a muddling to get this impression of a of a nice you know temporary temporariness before this event happened but it is it's based on belly solid research so it it does have a lot going for it. Particularly what is written by people who are in a one of NASA's actually most eminent planetary scientists institute so that that's it's amazing and one wonders what would have been like as a habitable world if if it was not dissimilar in terms of its topography griffey in and water notions and that sort of thing what what compared to us what would it have been like well it would have been much the same but with the sun slightly lightly bigger in the sky and maybe rather warm of this suspecting that the surface temperatures might be higher than what they are talking about twenty to forty degrees. Celsius on on average for the whole planet whereas here on the average temperature pretty sure it's fifteen degrees Celsius the average that attempt temperature of the planet got it so that's putting into Fahrenheit terms that twenty to forty degrees go sixty eight Fahrenheit which is the twenty degree mark to about one hundred and four degrees degrees Fahrenheit so she's the extremes would be much higher in so why would would have been hotter but you still only talking about temperatures like what we're getting US Chilean judge that very true yeah. It sounds like it would have been quite a livable place so one now wonders assuming they theory is spot on whether or not they did have life yeah that sounds maybe one day we will have the wherewithal to explore. Venus robotically county module whatever Wilkins Venus with those temperatures but who knows what sort of things we might find with with a robot strolling around Venus Bustle. Oh there's another one alta although if you've got super volcanoes sealing the whole surface with Mike Meyers probably not going to be much left of the fossils suppose not but they probably found the smoking gun Nado Cadillac that'll be that'll be the reason what happened now. These fascinating quite amazing and that sort sort of makes you think well. Hey Hey hang on a second if that happened at Venus and we look at Mars and go well you know at one stage had possibly liquidations and he's earth. I mean Holo suddenly there are three potential livable planets in solar system and the only one left and only what left and when messing it up yeah. Eh Guy well probably be more on this not fast track so we'll keep it on that story as well because twelve with reviewing you're listening to space nuts the podcast with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson space nuts did send the shadow early at two patrons through patriarch dot com are also locked to send a shot at Fred to youtube follow is we're starting to build quad little audience audience in Youtube. We've got two hundred and seventy subscribers that now listen via Youtube which is wonderful. We've decided to set a target so we would like to reach one thousand because apparently that's that's a good number that really understand youtube and have the numbers work but getting to one thousand is something that that benefits the benefits youtube obviously but also benefits space nut so we'll we'll we'll push on. If you'd like to become a subscriber to space nuts via youtube just do a search youtube apple whatever it is you use and yourself to a growing list of subscribers on youtube space nuts channel. That would be fantastic now we we got some questions to get through Fred. We've got a few today a couple of will be easy and one will be easier or maybe harder at this one comes from Bentley from Boda Entry Rick Bentley from boulder jury doesn't have an accent like that because he's in Colorado to the dynamic duo Andrew and Fred. That's the first time we've been called that and it will be the last time would blow shifting light from distant galaxies be assigned that the universe is beginning to collapse back on itself. Is the big a crunch or to slow down the free. That's a really interesting question. Light gives a lot of the lot spectrum gives a lot of way when when you're making observations in space what would it blue shift indicate fred will it would it would certainly tell you more than that. The Universe is expansion not Muslim down because in order for the light from a galaxy to be blue shifted the the galaxies go to becoming too so you're already in a scenario you were the universe is collapsing. If you see blue chips we see blueshirts actually up for a few nearby galaxies where the individual of the motion of the galaxy is enough to overcome the expansion of the universe. Uh Excuse me it's really only when you start looking relatively distant galaxies that the expansion of the universe is the most I you know the the most obvious feature of the spectrum so you get the redshift so they're blue two galaxies but there in fact what we what we distinguish between something called the Hubble flow which is the speed of galaxy as a result of of the expansion one of the universe and something called the peculiar motion which is the motion of a galaxy. That's peculiar to that galaxy might because by the fact that he's got a knee nearby my neighbor like we have with the andromeda galaxy and pulling together gravitationally that will be enough to overcome the the redshift because they you no the distance between these objects is small so we do see blue chips but not on a what you might call a cosmological scale not in the white universe. We only see red shifts so there's no danger that we're going to wake up one day and find all these galaxies that hitherto you have had redshift of now got blue shifts. That's not going to happen but in a in a different universe from one with that would go to collapse on itself. Yes yes. That's what you would see you would see blue shifted galaxies so a good question. Thank you Bentley for that. Could the expansion of our galaxy of Al Universe be pushing another one back on itself. Is that right yeah. I'll be there are ideas that was just one of many universities and maybe they are all jostling muscling for some sort of hyperspace nudging one another out of the way but that is at the moment beyond the realms of anything that we can we can actually do who was a observational discovery. All you can do is speculate aspect relations. I think can't do as good as anybody else's yeah. I'll take it okay. Thanks Bentley great question now. We've got a question from Christopher poorly. Christopher Christopher message had a question on before so he he he has another one that we thought we'd tackle so professor Google and her Research Assistant Youtube tells me that gamma rays cannot penetrate air atmosphere however however a lot of scientists feel that a gamma ray burst could sterilize large amounts of planets in galaxy assuming they have life. They told me me that a Gamma Ray burst is spinning supermassive star that is collapsing and turning into a black hole the source of some of the biggest explosions in the universe. My question Chen for Andrew Baja thought I'd read that bit for you for it is Google Rod. Does our atmosphere protects us from memorize. If so what about the Gamma Ray burst would rigby that scientists think could turn earth into a post apocalyptic wasteland love the show Cape it up. That's yeah that's exciting. Isn't it. The answer's Yes you know if you've got a gamma ray burst which is directing its its gamma rays the earth and it's not very far away it does strips the atmosphere of electrons and suddenly you've got nothing that's breakable and things start getting and pretty bad very quickly with the the reason why we know about. Gamma-ray bursts does is it interesting itself because they were not soon until it was the nineteen seventies when various nuclear protection treaties were an enacted acted a global treaties banning atmospheric nuclear tests and they were monitored by a fleet of small satellites satellites which were designed to pick up the gamma rays from anybody who broke the law by detonating a nuclear weapon in the atmosphere and what this commemorate satellites found was not stop coming from the ground but stuff coming from space. I detected occasional blasts of gamma rays which were a very mysterious for a long time in fact. I guess fantasize. It's really only been in the last ten to fifteen India's that astronomers have understood the mechanism by which Gamma Ray bursts work and is it more or less a as Christopher uh-huh says that if you've got this highly massive star maybe a neutron star that's spinning and something happens to it that causes it to collapse into a black hole then you get this huge burst of energy which doesn't last very long. It's it's a matter of I think. The gamma rays are over in a matter of seconds to minutes but often there is an optical flash visible. COUNTERPA actually very useful if you say that to to what can how distantly things are. We know that they are great distances. They're in very distant galaxies so for a while and I think this woke still goes on there was a a system setup whereby if a Gamma Ray was detected by one of these special gamma-ray detection satellites allies than you will be optical and radio astronomy communities and getting them to point to the place where the Gamma Ray bursts came from to see if there's any afterglow the the US happened is being detected not how we know of it more about the physics of these things the fact is that these gamma-ray bursts does that have been observed role a very very long way away so they gotta raise pretty weak by the time they get to the solar system but if he did have one in our galaxy addicts jet of material was directed in the right direction. Sorry is jeter. A highly energized radiation was in the right direction then yeah we could be Friday could strip the the planet of its atmosphere so I think the answer is that both Google and a a on youtube where right yeah thanks Chris forgiving us one more thing to worry about really appreciate it but now it is is fascinating. The odds are very very miniscule aren't they. Yes they are the the very slight this. I think we've discussed star recently. Soleil my rings a bell look to my brain is still over the Indian Ocean Khan remember it but I do remember. This was a candidate in our galaxy for aw possible. Gamma-ray burster might be to Corinne actually which is a very large and unstable star but it turns out that the the axis along in which the gamma rays would be directed is not actually pointing does so we might we might survive if he does go few. Thank you for your question. We'll move onto the final question for this episode from a double Banger because I think this was a discussion that was on the a podcast group on facebook and someone else to question someone else responded to it so I'm going to get credit both Damian Huxley in Brit Campbell for this one they say I wonder if Andrew Dunkley can ask Professor Fred. How does the maths work when looking at gravitational time dilation if if everything else is the same for both planets except for the mass one is a one hundred thousand times bigger. What is the change inch in time if you were able to watch all the atomic clocks on the satellites as a gravitational wave move pass. Would the clocks change time lime very very good question love time questions. Dodge questions are really think this is good stuff. It is good stuff so and we actually have had another question which is very similar to the second part of a of this one. We had another question in about atomic clocks detecting gravitational waves so the question we've got here is is as you said. He said two component one. What's the change in time for the you know when when Moscow's up by touch of a hundred thousand I I I don't know the answer hand in terms of the mathematics bud it's relatively straightforward when he looked at the equations of general relativity it they are a bit Excuse me they are a bit horrendous in other things called metrics which evolved matrices of large amounts of numbers an a- An- any all goes into something called tensor calculus which between you may Andrew Hope. Nobody's listening to this. I've never really understood probably because I've never really ready up properly but it what what often happens is these things boil down to a relatively straightforward equations and so sometimes it's just a question of proportionality while there's usually the speed of light involved in there somewhere which is a constant rise to seminomas power often say to the full both when you look at gravitational distortions disturbance have spiced by gravitational waves so I'm I I can't give answer to how much gravitation the time delights how different today's from one planet to another except to say that it is gravitational time time dilation because of the Earth is actually a very small amount you talking probably Nano seconds that kind of level when you compare an and people have compared clocks in aircraft and clocks on the ground in clocks in satellites and clocks on the ground and he suddenly measurable excuse me with Modern Technology but how different today's from planet to another. I don't have that number fingertips. I'm actually in some ways more interested in the second part of the question. which is if you were able to watch? All the atomic clocks on the satellites is the gravitational wave moved past with clocks change time and I guess just because gravitational wise our distortion of space time the answer is yes but I think the numbers would be infinitesimal compared with what we can detect now is a related question from Damien Huxley which is a any talks about caesium clocks and strontium clocks with these very very high frequencies but I don't think they're any wendy a high enough you've to detect the change in time caused by gravitational wave. That's an opinion pulled out of the from what I know about the effective gravitational gravitational waves on on space which is you know absolutely Chinese ex exactly as new not spoken about before on the line go experiment in the USA. These folks along interferometry arms the capable of detecting a movement of the mirror off one ten thousands of the damage of approach on a not as you know it's just astonishing is about the mind is nineteen meters and so oh your equivalent time distortion will be a similarly infinitessimal of level and I I'm pretty sure I we'll check this because I know people in the time world I will check it but I'm pretty sure that we have no way of detecting the kind of change that would occur gravitatational wave past. They go well. We managed to knock off forty seven questions in one there I think we should we left a good enough to keep going about five hundred. I suspect it does thank you to everybody who all those related questions much appreciated and hopefully the answer was well. They they ask questions because I don't know the answers so they might have had some theories but maybe maybe we help fill in some blanks for them for and thank you. It's always a pleasure we covered covered a lot of ground today in some really fascinating topics as well so thank you very much as jetlagged and dazed as you are. I Yeah I'll of course we'll not remember any of this conversation and so good thing recorded it. It is just as well yeah. Thanks a lot audrey good to talk to you. We'll speak again next week. We will indeed Professor Fred Watson. Astronomer Lodge joins US every week here on space net says as to you and keep spreading the word the more the merrier and we'll catch you next time on another edition of space nuts to this space nuts podcast waited subscribe to the podcast on Itchy and stitch-up or your favorite podcast distributed. This is another quality podcast production from thoughts dot com.
Bonus episode - A new mystery audio file from the Darkness has been discovered in Destiny 2
"The dauntless are on their way and then nearly here just over a week's time they're going to reach Jupiter and in an interesting twist of the last few days. A message from the darkness has appeared and the trying to talk to us is this a warning is a threat will. The following is a look at the message from the darkness in destiny. Two yesterday audio file appeared on twitter from one of destiny the Games regional twitter accounts. This post was removed and replaced shortly after the recording on the main destiny the game twitter account with a strange new recording with a form that looks like one of the pyramid ships. This appears to be a message from the darkness themselves and the audio is eerie and chilling. With what sounds like gin to wind or running water full owed by faint cracks? Sounds like there's something crawling swimming writhing something not human. This is followed by a high pitched sound with stand similar to some of the recordings were taken by real life. Nassar Above Satin in the not too distant past so fantastic work has been done by rate secrets and this is a sub reddit dedicated to the secrets of destiny. If you haven't checked out new definitely should and our that down below but before we go any further. Let's have a listen to the audio fall itself. The original is quite quite so I turned up the volume have adjusted the brightness on the image so you can see the way for more clearly mentioned before these recording sense similar to that recordings of Satin. These recordings were part of the Cassini hike in space. Research mission evolved a collaboration between NASA European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency to send a probe to study the planet Satin and system including its rings. And it's natural satellites. Here's a description. From NASA published in two thousand and five about the recordings the Cassini spacecraft began detecting these radio emissions April two thousand and two when Cassini was three hundred seventy four million kilometers as two hundred and thirty four million miles from the planet using the Cassini radio and plasma wife sides instrument the complex radio spectrum with rising and falling tones very similar to US auroral radio emissions these structures indicate that there are numerous small radio sources moving along magnetic field lines threatening the auroral region. Let's have a listen to the recordings and we can hear the similarities between the two recordings now message from the darkness Link between the message from the Dauntless Raton is reaching out to us and telling us with. It's something else one telling thing in the audio phone is a thank cracking. Sound running water and wind. Could this be cracking of the ice on enceladus in the past we've seen concept on what from Bungee related to enceladus small moon the orbit Satin San Saladin has been referenced before in game be in a very cryptic way during the ice of Spain's final mission. Kate six left messages to everyone could have killed him. Some are funny somewhat coded much like this one to pitch revenge. Go unpunished when you you just got blast radius fun while it lasted and Tell Paladin or if the sun over necessary escapes Nebulous Psycho Feedback. Labor after dawn under solstice. You got that people looking specifically at that message tell pad and if the sun over Nemesis Escapes Nebula Cycle Evac Labor. After dawn under selfish. If you take the first letters of that message it reads. It's on and seller this. There are theories this could point to the deep stone crypt including this excellent piece of detective. Work by Paul Tasks on Forbes Article Down Below the next message from kate sixty references the minds behind the deep stone crypt in. Kate says this. What's the mind of the stone? Crypt you think just cause you made me. You can unmake me. Hey I understand I were you. I wouldn't want people knowing what I did either. Guess you better hope. I didn't tell anyone about the crypto or about the long slow whisper. Because if I did that would be real bad for you I may be dead but I guarantee hewing hurt the last me very interesting. Part of this is the long slow whisper. This could be related to Clovis braise ability to exert control over all X os or related to the deep stone crypt south. Seems like there's links here the Erie recordings from the darkness the similarities to the real world sound recorded by Satin and sellers and the arrival of the doubtless themselves. Let me know down in the comments. What the links are and where you think we could be going with this to. The darkness has spoken to us before the end of the shadow key campaign. We bought a pyramid ship to battle nightmares of our past. Only to come face to face with what seemed to be ourselves pyramids looming in the sky behind our reflection with a similar eerie music. Playing not too different from what we hear in this audio you made a. We have heard your cries for help and sue. We will answer are you. Can you recognize us? We are not your friend. We are not your enemy you so they show. The definition of salvation is preservation or deliverance. From harm ruin or loss. Perhaps this could point to our current situation we currently in the last city with the Almighty hurtling towards us. We're all thinking the moment that respite in it's GONNA shoot this cabal ship from the sky in an act of last minute defense as it's something. We've been preparing fall season. The wife in files or MRS and the darkness takes out the Almighty instead therefore becoming salvation from the Almighty I would imagine this is less likely and actually the donors wants to be salvation from the light itself. There's also another interesting theory on this and in the way form their ninety-one bars if you take each bar to me day that's ninety one days if you count into one day from the release of this audio file then hit Tuesday the eighth of September which could be the arrival of not only the darkness but with them the new fall expansion bungee has been very coy on the details for next season. This past Thursday. Dj Pound while the most cryptic messages in recent twelve's by saying keep your eyes trained on at Pongy fout dates or stream or announcements in the places. And you'll learn about the next season of destiny too at the same time we talk about the next chapter in the story that's been unfolding only along and that was followed that just truman saying so. We look forward to continuing this conversation and continuing to evolve destiny together in twelve days. We can't wait to show you more of what we've been working on twin twelve days from the published. This article is the scheduled start of the new season. Bungee does seem to be holding back some info as to why that is is not clear the moment. I'm hoping for big changes in the coming weeks and months as we build up to the full expansion and the next chapter for destiny to. I'm hoping for huge changes in season. Eleven now only the sandbox improvements that we've been discussing as a community with Bungee over the past few weeks.
Journey to Venus
"We live on earth right. The ocean world trees condominiums closest planet. Next door is planet known as the morning star very often in literature. We can see her. She's the second brightest thing in the sky other than the mon. It gives you a sense of. We're not alone in our little solar system. so what venus they. This ought to be a lot like us. She's just the right neighborhood and yet she isn't so something changed. Understanding that is important understanding our own destiny because as we look beyond our solar system and start to see worlds that we hope are like us they may be more like venus and so that may tell us about how planets change their life histories so we need venus as a clue to our destiny and to read the records beyond our solar system. This is nasice curious universe. Our universe is a wild and wonderful place. I'm pattie boyd. And in this podcast. Nasa is your tour guide. Venus is the second planet from the sun in our solar system. It's sometimes called earth's twin because it's similar in size and density but it's currently far too hot on its surface to support life as we know it or liquid water in fact. Venus is the hottest planet in our solar system with a thick toxic atmosphere and while those characteristics mean it's an unlikely candidate for life now. Scientists think venus might have been a lot more like earth many many years ago in an exhilarating announcement earlier this year to nasa missions were selected to fly to venus in the next decade call. Davinci and veritas. These missions will allow scientists to learn more about what this strange and inhospitable planet is like now and if it was similar to earth in the past which could tell us more about our future. So let's go to venus. We'll be following jim. Garvin principal investigator of the davinci mission as he takes us through the atmosphere and to the surface of our sibling planet so venus is a rocky planet so it has a solid surface. It's about the size of earth. Ten percent less incised. It has four hundred fifty million square kilometers of landscape but it also has a massive atmosphere and the venus's atmosphere is like no other in the solar system because it's dense massive super hot near the surface like hotter than your oven. The surface temperature nine fifty fahrenheit in most places. Maybe nine hundred at the top of the biggest mounds big clouds. Billowing clouds extend for miles at one point. The clouds will get a little asti. They'll be made of stuff. We would not wanna brief so fdic acid and other caustic chemicals that we use to clean things on our well. They're in the clouds of venus. We'll come out of the clouds into the haze and below will be the landscapes of venus rolling plains. We'd have in the oceans presence of mountains as tall as mount everest valleys ridges volcanoes things. We've never seen before new landscape types. We do not have on earth. If you were able to breathe in the atmosphere venus it might smell like rotten eggs. Yuck of course you'd have to withstand the intense heat pressure and toxic fumes in order to get a good with and as we're descending the surface pressure and temperature is going to be getting extreme like being half a mile deep in the ocean. But we're in a gas but that gas is behaving more like water than like a regular gas so with sloshes around the carbon dioxide in the deepest part of venus's atmosphere is what's known as a super critical fluid. It's a state between gas and a liquid. Not only with that. Co to be difficult to walk around in. It's also a key. Ingredient of venus is so hot heat from the sun gets trapped in the planet's dense atmosphere a condition known as the greenhouse effect and so that's the venus we see. She's telling us a story on her. Books are a little harder to read. Venus is this incredible cosmic accident. No two bodies are more similar in our solar system than venus earth. This gives us a great opportunity to try out. Any theory of how things work can take those series and applied to venus. And we learn something now that we've traveled through the atmosphere. The knicks stop on our grand tour. Venus is the rocky surface of the planet. My name is susan car. I'm the principal investigator for the fair. Toss mission i may Venus planetary geophysicist venus is just an incredibly complicated planet which has so many similarities year. No one really big in perhaps appreciated similarity is the age of its surface if we look at the surface of mercury or mars. They're covered with impact craters. That means those surfaces have been around for of years so venus it only has about a thousand impact craters. If you account for the surf's here the ocean earth has about the same number that makes it a place where we expect. Geologic processes still be active. It really gives us a great laboratory to study. Active geology. The lack of craters on venus and on earth shows us. They are both planets with relatively young services. This means there are active processes on venus. Like quakes and vulcan ism reshaping the surface and this is a process. Scientists are eager to learn more about most of the planet's surface is covered in volcanic features. Many of wish look like those we find here on earth but there are also crazy features for example channels which we think are formed by lava flow eroding the surface but those channels go for literally a thousand miles and are only like a mile wide. Venus is one of our closest neighbors in the universe so it makes sense that we would want to learn more. They've already been several missions to venus but because of the harsh nature of its atmosphere they could only tell us so much in the dawn of the space age yes was the it planet. There was just spacecraft after spacecraft heading venus some made it some failed but it was the planet that we thought had swamps and dense vegetation and exciting aliens as captured in sci-fi. It was actually the the place where the first robotic spacecraft flew by another planet those missions the united states mission pioneer venus and the soviet missions venire and vega. They visited the atmosphere and surface with technologies largely from the nineteen seventies. Just think back to the seventy s. Did we have cellphones. Nope did we have personal computers nip electric cars. No those technologies showed us the venus. We see today. A limited picture of masterpiece unfinished because venus is hard the last. Us mission to venus was the magellan mission which reached venus orbit in nineteen ninety and operated until nineteen ninety-four. Jim and his team proposed going back to venus with the davinci mission. Four times before it was selected in twenty twenty. One alongside the veritas mission. So after many years actually a decade or so of trying we're so privileged to have been selected to fly emission named for leonardo da vinci the great renaissance person who was able to stitch science technology engineering and dreams and curiosity altogether. We would ideally launch in twenty twenty nine and fly by venus twice in two thousand thirty before we take the plunge in june of twenty thirty one and our pleasure will take an hour through the entire atmosphere and then if we're fortunate and lucky and venus cooperates we may get a little data as we sit on the surface. I'm jonah arne. And i'm one of the deputy. Pi's of the davinci mission to venus giada alongside. Jim is part of the team. Conceptualizing preparing and eventually launching the probe to venus. It will consist of two parts. Both will collect new and exciting information. That will help us. Better understand this mysterious planet. It's a really exciting concept. There's a spacecraft and the spacecraft is attached to a descent probe the spacecraft will do to fly bys venus on the way there during those fly buys the space craft is going to study venus in ultraviolet light and also near infrared light. These are colors of light that our is can't see but they provide information about the clouds of venus and also the surface of venus two years after launch. We're going to drop a descent. Probe into into venus's atmosphere that'll be released from the spacecraft are dissents. Fear is a titanium sphere. It's about the size of maybe a small beanbag chair or a large beach ball so noth- enormous but not super tiny. Either the descent probe will take about an hour to fall through venus's thick atmosphere during its descent it's going to make thousands of measurements of the atmospheric composition and we really want to understand the composition of venus's atmosphere better because we wanna look for information about what venus might have been like in the past the name davinci is an acronym and the n. stands for noble gases studying the noble gases of venus's atmosphere in particular will help give scientists appeak at the history of how venus became what it is today. Noble gases are unreal reactive gases because they don't react with things they kind of stick around and they could record a long history of processes that could have occurred on venus so from those and other gases. We want to learn things like the volcanic history of venus. Venus got its water. How much water. Venus may have had. how have lost that water etc etc. All these interesting questions about venus its origin evolution davinci's descent probe. We'll make a harrowing journey through venus's thick cloudy atmosphere and down to the surface it will be outfitted with state of the art protective materials to keep it as safe as possible but scientists don't have expectations that it will be able to survive the harsh conditions very long. Once we clear the bottom of the clouds will happen in about thirty eight. Kilometers in altitude will actually be able to have a crystal clear view of the surface. Then we have a camera at the bottom are dissents fear and that kamara's gonna appear downward through a sapphire window and it's going to look at the surface from above get a bird's eye view of the terrain once it hits the service. We don't know if it'll survive. It is not required to survive. If it does we might be able to collect a few more minutes of data but that will be a bonus. We're not expecting or planning for that at the moment while davinci will mostly focus on studying the atmosphere the other venus mission veritas will orbit the planet taking data to study the surface n. Geology evidence suggests that long ago. Venus hosted large shallow oceans with a stable climate for at least a couple billion years measuring features of both the atmosphere and the surface can tell scientists whether or not water used to be present on venus. And how much it influenced its topography and climate scientists. Like su are excited to see how much earthen venus having common especially when it comes to questions of planet formation geological activity and the presence of water. Very toss will investigate the global geologic evolution of venus. And answer some of the key questions that we need to understand about geologic evolution to get at this question of how planets become habitable. How they lose their habitability. We have an order and it has just two instruments but those instruments take a variety of different data sets. We has this intense cloud layer. We chose our instruments to be able to see through that cloud layer very toss will stay above venus's atmosphere orbiting the planet and collecting important information from above. We have our radar which gives us global topographic map. So we're gonna take radar data at one time and then come around about eight months later and take another raider image and we can tell if those services captured have deformed and then the other thing that we're to do for the very first time is provide global maps of rock type. Veritas is very much focused on acquiring the global data sets and davinci is focused on atmospheric chemistry. And so they're kind of getting the vertical dimension if you will whereas we're getting the horizontal dimension but These data sets will be just incredibly complimentary. Scientists are looking at venus to answer questions about earth's future. Venus is currently experiencing what planetary and climate scientists call a runaway greenhouse effect. This is when he gets trapped within the atmosphere without any means to cool the planet down. Earth's oceans are a key ingredient for cooling our planet down so if venus used to have oceans what happened to them. And what can we learn about the future of our planet as it heats up from global climate change so the venus we see now is a puzzle piece in the twenty twenties. We have the glimmers of what might might have been an oceanic world debt lost its oceans perhaps after billions of years of oceanic beautiful habitable world environments. Something went awry. Something changed it to be the world today. Those things those questions are important because they tell us what can go wrong. How climate an atmosphere climbing systems change will be relevant to back casting the climate history of earth and forecasting the eventual blindness. What happens if the oceans of earth were to super evaporate away. What would that look like. What would that do to our atmosphere. How would that evolve exploring and learning more about venus. Just tell us more about the second planet from the sun it can also help us learn what earth may be like far in the future or even what we might find on an exit planet orbiting a star thousands of light years away for planetary scientists. It's almost a once in a lifetime. Chance to have a mission you propose be accepted to fly out of our atmosphere into space. And then onto another world for su- jim and giada the day they were given the green light for the projects. They've poured so much work into is certainly wonder remember well. I was getting my kitchen my cellphone coverage not very good. So aren't really close to my mowed my wife. I say no call was supposed to come in between five and six. Am here on the west coast. Of course i had woken up at three o'clock. I couldn't sleep so You know. I've been doing a lot of pacing and contemplating. I had a big pot of coffee going. I was texting a few team members that you were also up just waiting for the news hoping that this time are lucky number would come up so we got a warning from nasa headquarters the bosses that we work for you may be getting a call about decisions from the head of all science at nasa is the associate administrator in the science mission directorate doctors buchen and so we thought okay well there's four brilliant missions they're all perfectly wonderful and should be selected. I was sitting at home. My dog underfoot. My dog's name is slenda sitting there. I told my wife told my kids when they said okay. We'll leave you alone and so at eight. Oh five the phone rings and it's the big boss. Doctors are book and he said well. Jim i have news for you. You're going to venus. And i had a huge sigh of relief. I thought it was bad news. So i heard about the selection for davinci the morning of the announcement that the nasa administrator made and i was sworn to secrecy so it was exciting but it was also like sitting on pins and needles waiting for the announcement of the whole world so that we could actually celebrate as a team. It's pretty wild to think about the fact that i've got this mission to work on and it's going to be something that i'm going to be working on for the next decade so it's a little bit scary but it's also exciting to think about that. I haven't worked on spaceflight mission before so it's hard to know for me as someone who's new to this what my job is going to look like and how it's going to evolve as the mission continues to evolve and mature at the years. Go by but it will be exciting to to find out what that looks like. Sending these missions to venus isn't just exciting for the davinci and veritas teams but for scientists across the world. Who will be able to learn and discover new exciting things about our solar system with brand new data. Very toss is a dream. Come true for me and four hundred other people. Perhaps hundreds of other people that have helped make it come to fruition. Over the last decade we have our current team that has worked super hard in the last four years but there have been people on teams in earlier versions at also made huge contributions and we have international partners. Now we're we're not doing this alone. We're going with the italian space agency. The german space agency the french space agency. It's international endeavor and there have just been so many people who have worked literally night and day to make this happen so we're going to bring the best of the tools the women and men on earth of perfected over the last forty years to fly by venus. And then take the plunge into our atmosphere to read her record books which are mystical unknown. Tantalizing but incomplete. We're going to complete them so all the young women and men are mentioned in venus will have a foundation a legacy so they can build the next models the next questions the next hypotheses and they will be cool trust me. This is nasa curious universe. This episode was written and produced by christina. Dana and kate steiner. Our executive producer is katie. Atkinson the curious universe team includes mattie arnold and michaela sasobi with support from emma edmund and premium. It'll our theme. Song was composed by matt. Rousseau and andrew santa guido of system sounds special. Thanks to nancy. Neil jones he and o'neill and the planetary communications team. If you liked this episode please let us know by leaving us. A review tweeting about the show at nasa and sharing nasr's curious universe with a friend learn more about venus and our upcoming missions by visiting solar system dot nasa dot gov still curious about nasa. You can send us questions about this episode or a previous one. And we'll try to track down the answers. You can email a voice recording or send a written note to nasa dash curious universe at mail dot nasa dot gov go to nasa dot gov slash curious universe for more information and it's also a beautiful planet some of the photographs. We have a venus from above with the cloud. That almost looks like an artist painted brushstrokes across venus's surface. I've seen photographs of the unknown newly observer. Skopje's dark markings like somebody there. Paintbrush dark paint and just brushed it across venus. So it's a really beautiful beautiful planet.
BepiColombo's First Venus Flyby Completed
"Love this podcast support this show through the a car support a feature. It's up to you how much you give and there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now dead. This is space-time series 23 episode 115 for broadcast on the 30th of October 2020 coming up on space-time the Bevy Columbus spacecraft undertake fish flyby of the planet Venus problems worse in the board, the International Space Station and China carries out its first orbital see launch all that and more coming up on space-time. Welcome to SpaceTime with Stuart Gary. The busy Columbia mission is completed. The first of two Venus Fly buys needed to set it on its course for the Solar System's innermost planet Mercury the closest approach of the flyby song spacecrafts worked down within ten thousand seven hundred twenty kilometers of the planet's surface baby Columbo needs nine gravity assist flybys. The first was with the Earth. There are two of them and then 6 with Mercury before finally achieving orbit insertion these flybys utilize the gravitational pull of the planets to help alter the spacecraft speed and direction and together with plumber's on board solar electric propulsion system help to stay the private the Mercury orbit against the strong gravitational pull of the Sun the first flyby that of Earth took place back on August 10th in the process, baby climber returned some stunning images of our home planet at a time when our world was coming to realize the extent of the lockdown needed to the covid-19 Coronavirus. Pandemic from China. In fact thanks to covid-19 for the Venus Fly by Mission managers were forced to conduct the majority of their preparations through tele working from home with only a minimal crew at Mission Control during the flyby to ensure the safe operation of the spacecraft two of the three monitoring cameras aboard the Mercury transfer module were activated before closest approach and seven of the alleged science instruments aboard the European Mercury planetary orbit, Ur assets radiation Monitor and three of the five instruments aboard the Japanese Mercury magnetospheric Orbiter were also active during the flyby on a wireless sensors are designed to study the rocky atmosphere free environment of mercury the flyby nevertheless provided a unique opportunity to collect some valuable scientific data about Venus off. So I just hope to have collected data and Venus is atmospheric temperature and density profiles information about the chemical composition and cloud cover and you observations the magnetic environment interaction between Sun and Venus and they're hoping for even more research data during next year's second Venus Fly by that'll happen on August 10th and will see the spacecraft fly just 550 km is above the planet's surface after the August close encounter. Maybe Columbo will make its first Mercury fly by in October next year passing at a distance of just two hundred kilometers above Mercury took office in the process providing the first tantalizing taste of what will follow once the missions two sides orbiters have arrived at their dedicated orbits around the planet there. They'll study Mercury's Evolution the nature of the ice and the tiny planet shadowed craters wire retains a magnetic field and whether it's still geologically active Pippi Columba was launched about an Ariane 5 rocket back on October 20th 2018 from the European space agency's Cruise Spaceport in French Guiana, the spacecraft get sister for suggestions that will detach at specific points along the machines Journey. The two primary sections are the European Mercury planetary Orbiter and Japan's Mercury magnetospheric Orbiter, which will each orbit Murad different altitudes Aces Mercury planet orbit is designed to analyze the planetary surface and composition while Jax is mercury magnetospheric Orbiter. We'll explore its magnetosphere home. I said section the Mercury transfer the module is located at the base of the stack and it's supplies power and support for the two orbiters as well as propulsion during the cruise phase of the mission and it will protect the to Thursday. It's from the extreme temperatures as they get close to Mercury in the Sun. The fourth section is the magnetospheric orbit of sun shield and interface structure. It's fitted between the two orbiters our first choice. Check the Mercury magnetospheric Orbiter before it enters orbit Atlanta orbit around Mercury on December 5th, 2025 studying the planet structure its magnetic field the surrounding new space environment. It's interaction with the nearest solar environment. And the solar wind this space-time still the come problems worse than about the International Space Station and China college at its first-ever ocean launch of an orbital spacecraft all that and more still to come on space-time. Well things have been getting shall we say interesting about the International Space Station of late Russian Mission managers say the orbiting Outpost is working normally at the moment with no threat to the safety of the crew despite in a state of problems and Equipment failures firstly there was the air leak in the Russians Vista module, which has been allowing atmosphere to slowly Vin into space that's been an ongoing issue for more than a year now, but it started to get significantly worse in recent months it took ages, but the crew finally trusted to a crack in one of the diverse two compartments and after initial efforts to repair it failed following if it's worth finally successful. However, the problems didn't end there with as far as the modules water system which supplies the oxygen to the Russian segment of the space station also failing there by putting extra load on the oxygen system on the American side of the orbiting Outpost. The interest is food heating system also failed as did the usually reliable Russian toilet aboard service. Nassif all that was dead. Have to worry about the space station crew of also reported an unexpected increase in temperature inside the system module. They say the temperature began to slowly rise over several days the wrong Center space agency roscosmos says all systems are now working again and there's no danger to any of the Personnel onboard still these problems have Arisen as concerns continue to grow over the age of this visit the module, which is now more than 30 years old. It was originally built back in the mid-1980s to be the core module of the then proposed Soviet Mia to space station off when Muska decided to join the International Space Station project. It canceled me to mothballing Sylvester until it was finally launched in the year two thousand to become part of the International Space Station veteran Russian cosmonaut generated. Alka says all the modules on the Russian segment of the space station are now exhausted and well past their use-by dates. He says the equipment should only be home. Little bit for around fifteen years this space-time. What's the best mattress for you if you're an egg or a kitten check out the competition, but if you're a human person put your body on a nectar mattress off as well as award-winning layers of comfort. You can sleep easy knowing you got incredible value mattresses start at just $499 and you get hundreds of dollars in accessories thrown off as well as of 365 night home trial and a forever warranty go to nectar sleep. China has carried out its first ocean-based space launch Sydney along March eleven rocketed to orbit from a floating Launchpad in the Yellow Sea a specially modified barge was stationed four hundred kilometers north of Shanghai just off the coast of Shandong the tire and satellite launch Center controlled the launch from the mainland the solid rocket power Long March eleven successfully placed nine satellites into orbit launching rockets at Sea offers several advantages over land-based launches including ensuring that spent rocket stages don't fall on land threatening life and contaminating areas with toxic Fuel and by stationing the launch pad on or near the equator. It also allows you to lift greater payloads for a given amount of fuel that's due to the added boost provided by wage increase speed of the Earth's rotation at the equator. China is only the third Nation to launch orbital Rockets from the C. There was of course see launch, which focused on launching large Jersey. Actually telecommunications satellites on Russian ukrainians in at 3. SL Rockets based in Long Beach, California Sea launch vessels included a control ship and a mobile launch pad converging a bolt exceed floating old platform. The rocket will be processed aboard the control ship and then transfer it to the launch platform, but launches taking place on the Pacific Ocean equator South of Hawaii near the edge of cure bass years between 1967 and 1988 National an Italian space agency also conducted 9 over the launches using a range of rockets from the San Marco launch platform a former stationary or platform located just off the coast of Kenya Mission Control was located on the nearby Santa Rita oil platform while a smaller salary 2-2 platform off the facilities, right and a ground station located on the nearby Mainland provided primary Telemetry. The entire complex has since been converted into a satellite communication station this song Time still to come the growing popularity of amateur astronomy and later in the science report a new study shows that this is ozone hole over. The Antarctic is one of the largest and faith in recent years all that and more still to come on space-time. Amateur astronomers always been popular and that popularity has been growing over recent months. Thanks to the lockdowns associated with the covid-19 coronavirus. It's a great way to keep kids occupied with the same time being educational and expanding their minds bus adults tend to like it to another important feature is that amateur astronomy is one of the last sciences that still accessible to order of people allowing them to enjoy the wonders of the universe and even become citizens scientists helping professionals carry out real research, but what really makes it so popular is it's accessibility off. It's an inexpensive hobby to carry out after all all you really need to patch a sky and the pair of binoculars. There are thousands of astronomy clubs around the world offering advice or in some cases course on how to navigate the skies how to use an expensive backyard telescopes or even had a build your own telescope. And as you get more and more into it, you can progressively accumulate more and more sophisticated. Had an equipment this month's issue of Australian sky and Telescope magazine has a special feature an amateur astronomy and joining us. Now. The details is the Magazine's editor Jonathan Ali do it in an issue of Australians gone telescope. We have lots of info for the amateur astronomer and all the different aspects of the hobby. So we articles on how to improve your night sky images specifically by taking multiple images and adding them to get what they call stacking you can get a lot more detail and nicer images by doing that and with the electronic cameras and things you've got these days and free software you can use it really makes it so easy. If you're into planets, we have lots of hints and tips in this issue on how to observe the planet including which kind of filters you might need to use to bring a detail on the planetary atmospheres, but a fabulous design for portable telescope that has all the bells and whistles, but it all folds up neatly into a compact package still a transport or storage you wouldn't even know the telescope inside really it's just so compact but you can take all the pieces out put it together in a couple of minutes and Away you go. So that's that's really the telescope I would have thought they would have been a dead. Really difficult thing to do. It depends on your telescope. Yeah. Some telescopes are really easy to build others a bit more complex and it has to be said that this this particular design that we we feature in this issue wage was pretty experienced. And I think it's probably his third attempt at making a scope like this, but that doesn't matter. I mean, it's it's it's great and that's something to look forward to and something to Aspire to and and you don't even have to do it exactly like he's done it there's so many people have been different designs of telescopes over the years. They're all basically the same but he's just done a really clever way of zoning or something. If it's it's sort of it's a dobsonian basically. Yeah, so it's worth it's a reflector telescope in the Drop Zone in map of the few differences so that it can all pack away inside itself basically, so I will look at that. That's really incredible and we have a review of a fantastic new telescope assuage Concord hyperbolic astagraf. I don't mean that's a new kind of talks about they've been around for a while. But this is a new brand a new model. They've got out and a hyperbolic astagraf is great for taking optimized wide berth. Images of celestial objects such as galaxies and nebulae and it gives you nice crisp detail all the way to the edge of the the photographic frame because some of people systems you get a beautiful crisp image in the middle wage towards the edges of the field. It can be a little bit distorted. But this thing bigger hyperbolic gastrograph is just really really good cuz that come down to the type of Optics. It has I mean mirrors and lenses or what? Yes, it does. It's a combination of mirrors and lenses that they've used in the quality of the materials and and the exact specifications and focal lengths and things is an endless variety of telescopes and they've optimized this particular design with a particular focal length particular diameter tube and everything in the send a particular materials that made it from for doing one purpose, which is really taking spectacular photographs. So you wouldn't necessarily use this telescope to do just general observing with its 4,000. We just want to take Rudy speaking photos and there are plenty of people out there who want to do that. That's Jonathan eley the editor of Australian sky and Telescope magazine and and forget if you're having trouble getting your copy of Australian sky and telescope Magazine from you use your retailer because of the current lockdown and travel restrictions in always get a print or digital subscription and have the magazine delivered directly to your letterbox or inbox subscribing ZZ get a sky and telescope. That sky and telescope, and you'll never be left in the dark again. Today's edition of space-time is brought to you by expressvpn protect your online activity today and find out how you get 3 months free at try expressvpn.com. Let's try expressvpn.com space for 3 months free with a one-year package visit try expressvpn.com space to learn more than listening to SpaceTime with Stuart, Gary. And try not to take another brief look at some of the other stories making use in science this week with a science report. You measurements show that this is ozone hole over the Antarctic is one of the largest and deepest in real life years and you measurements by the European space agency's Copernicus Sentinel five-piece satellite show that the ozone hole read some twenty-five million square kilometers in size on October 2nd the size of the Earth and the whole fluctuates on a regular basis. Usually increasing between August and October the variability of the size is largely determined by the strength of a strong wind bandwidth flows around the Antarctic. This band is a direct consequence of Earth's rotation and the strong temperature differences between polar and more moderate latitudes when the temperatures high up in the stratosphere start off as in the southern hemisphere years and depletion slows the polar vortex weekends and finally breaks down and ozone layer's return to normal by December as soon as important for our survival. Because it provides a protective shield against ultraviolet radiation from the Sun during the nineteen seventies and eighties scientists found that chlorofluorocarbons or CFCs a group of chemicals used in products ranging from refrigerators to aerosol cans were destroying the ozone layer that led to the adoption of the 1987 Montreal protocol which called for the phasing out of chlorofluorocarbons globally wage and to the most part the waters support of that ban. However, a report in the journal Nature found that China's continuing to pump huge amounts of chlorofluorocarbons into the atmosphere from indulging in its eastern provinces, despite the international ban scientists have improved the output of the device designed to extract drinking water directly from the air the Divine Life reported in the journal Jewel could become a practical water source for remote areas with limited access to water and electricity. It works by harnessing a temperature difference within the device to allow absorbed. Material which collects liquid on its surface to draw in moisture from the air at night and then release it the next day when the material was hated by sunlight the difference in temperature between the heated top and the shading on the side of this material causes water to condense out of the material and trip on or collection plate but the device required the use of specialized materials called metal-organic Frameworks, which are expensive and took it in Supply Now by incorporating a second stage of desorption and condensation and by using a readily-available absorbent material called zeolite composed of a micro porous iron aluminum phosphate wage order out but was significantly increased a new Japanese study claims that drinking green tea and coffee may help people with type two diabetes live longer the findings report British medical journal showed that drinking four or more cups daily of green tea plus two or more of coffee was associated with a 63% lower risk of death over a period of five years or something. Found that those who drank just one cup of green tea or coffee still had a lower risk than people who didn't drink either beverage but the benefits seem to increase with a more cups people drank. A series of studies reported in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology has been examining how the covid-19 coronavirus is affecting the human heart around one in four people hospitalized with covid-19 end up having hot damage caused by the virus. The studies included one, which is identified a new Cobra lated cardio metabolic syndrome driven by patients having high body fat unstable blood sugar high levels of fats in the bloodstream and high blood pressure lifestyle change is recommended for these patients as well as the course of drug therapy a second stage looked at the global concerns covid-19 is raised for the health and safety of heart disease patients scientists found that covid-19 survivors will be more vulnerable to death from heart problems in the future off. The disease is cleared and a third study was looking at the damage which covid-19 courses through the heart including blood clots and irregular heart rhythm, both of which can be fatal some for He three million people have now been infected and we'll over a million killed by the covid-19 coronavirus since at first met its way into the community in Wuhan China a year ago. Well it now seems the most likely explanation for the origins of the covid-19 coronavirus involves a catastrophic security breach at the Chinese Liberation Army's Wuhan Institute of pathology experimental laboratory. The level four bio-lab. The only one in China was conducting research on horseshoe bats. Ask o v to viruses at the time and earlier inspections the facility by a us delegation found evidence of poor biohazard security. Then there's the Curious fact that those at the will hand lab were ordered to destroy all their research and sanitize the entire facility immediately after the outbreak effectively destroying any evidence. Meanwhile, they nearest wild populations of horseshoe bats were the same size Covey to strain from which covid-19 generates are located some 1,600 kilometers away. So it sound likely the bats will hand by themselves and that leaves Occam's razor the most straightforward explanation. Is usually the most likely however not everyone's convinced one group believes the deadly virus may have been extraterrestrial in origin to minimum from Australian. Skeptics says they may be believed that covid-19 came down in the last shower the last meteor shower. That is everyone's looking for a a sort of where did it come from solution. Obviously. Most people would say I came via the wet markets China others, of course saying that it came through was from research Labs. It was artificially created or it could come from 5G. Of course. I never quite figured out how it could come from that but you know that's been suggested as well. But one that crossed out a lot with viruses and pandemics and that sort of thing is that it comes down from outer space. So this is the panspermia theory exactly Pennsylvania. And basically there's an Institute for the study of panspermia home economics in Japan and they and various others have suggested that covid-19 come down through comments or whatever from outer space. And as I said this course up quite a lot and has cropped up wage. Past when his previous and they make such a claim to be the same people making the claim and one of them is a fellow named Chandra wickramasinghe who has a history long history of making money for long term used to do a lot of work with Fred Hoyle the scientists and science fiction author who wrote a big astronomy. Yeah, and actually write a book called the black cloud and that was about the edge of danger and he and we kind of seeing me working. So I had been working a long time in these things and the kind of seeing her still around and still making these claims and it's been pretty well sort of dismissed took one commentator said that he's been around so long that he doubted there was any disease he didn't think came down from outer space. So it's not really going anywhere at the moment. It hasn't in the past. Although, you know, there's always been suggestions that life may come down from outer space in the first place rather than doing spontaneously created on Earth, you know, keep an open mind about it, but perhaps any a small open mind, how do they respond to the fact that the DNA strain off? Covid-19 that we're looking at does in fact come from horseshoe bats. Did the bats come from outer space as well. I know I think we're what we're seeing as people who have a particular Theory and a few think the cases to them and I haven't seen a report on how they respond is basically just something that was published a proposed. If you like by these various groups in Japan and the UK, even China and Canada. So they've got together or should actually had this one in Jos University and they probably says payment look into some legitimacy then if there are that many scientific institutions supporting. It can't be simply ruled out. Then it can't be ruled out of order entirely. But the thing is true age of the evidence for it like two decades ago promising claimed the flu came down from space and this was roundly criticized as bunk. He also claimed that SARS had the same origin. So basically it's like a disease that's coming down, especially the pandemic type diseases these calls from Outer Space by the discovery of chemicals in the venusian atmosphere, which could most likely home. From Live host name which is a gas that is supposedly sourced from life-forms there for its existence in the atmosphere of Venus and you made artificially as well. But the question is, is it really there? What's your stance of blah blah blah. It's very very early days for that one. But I mean how it got from there to here would be a different issue as well. That's what parents permia comes gets their parents being there comes in. That's to Mendham from Australian Skeptics wage. A cast Powers some of the world's best podcasts. Here's a show we recommend Hi, I'm Beth and I'm Sarah and we're the host of pantsuit politics where we built a community around grace-filled political conversations, and we wanted to share the words of our listeners because they understand best what we do and told us many times. I've used your words when my own have failed opening doors that allow for discussion rather than debate. Amber says we encourage her to be more involved to be a better Citizen and to be part of her communion. Nicole said listening to you to process was why my mother is the only way for me to become unstuck with the impending election on the horizon join us in our amazing community of listeners at pantsuit Politics as we prepare to volt process the election and prioritize our values and each other make sure you participate in our democracy by listening to pantsuit politics and of course exercising your right to vote counts. Yep, and that's the shot for now space time is available every Monday Wednesday and Friday through Apple podcast iTunes Stitcher Google podcast Pocket Casts Spotify a cast Amazon music bites., SoundCloud YouTube your favorite podcast download provider and from SpaceTime with Stuart garage cam Space X also broadcast through the National Science Foundation on science Zone Radio and on both I heart radio and TuneIn radio and you can help to support our show by visiting the space-time store for a range of promotional merchandising goodies or by becoming A Spacetime Patron, which gives you access to Triple episode commercial free versions of the show as well as lots of bonus audio content wage. Doesn't go to where access to our exclusive Facebook group and other Awards just go to space time with Steward Gary, for full details. And if you want more space time, please check out our block where you'll find all the stuff we couldn't fit in the show as well as heaps of images news stories loads of videos and things on the web. I find interesting or amusing just go to space time with Stuart Gary. Tumblr.com. That's all one word. And that's tumbler without the e you can also follow us through at Stewart Gary on Twitter at space-time with Stewart Gary on Instagram through our space-time YouTube channel, add on Facebook. Just go to facebook.com forward slash space-time with Stewart, Gary and SpaceTime is brought to you in collaboration with Australian sky and Telescope magazine your window on the universe. You been listening to SpaceTime with Stuart Gary. This has been another quality podcast production from bites. Com.
273: John's Shark Bite
"Welcome de dear. The i think of it dear. John and hank it's a podcast for two brothers. Enter your questions. Give you advice on the week's news from mars and afc wimbledon. Jonah man just threw some milk at me. Oh did he jerry. Oh god no. I'm offended. that's a terrible way to begin. Twenty twenty one so disastrous way to begin this beautiful new year. Did we already began. Twenty twenty one and now we are announcing to the world that it's a it's national milk day. Is it really. Yes oh yes. The the eleventh of january is national milk day so there was there was some rhyme to the reason young man that must be why he was throwing milk at me because he was like an national no pay. Everybody got some out. Everybody gets them out. Get it that is always celebrate. Yeah we celebrate by pouring milk on each others heads like we all just won the indy. Five hundred yes. That is how we celebrate national milk. Day got hank. I'm excited for two thousand and twenty one for a variety of reasons but the biggest reason probably is that it means we are one year closer to the now inevitable day when this podcast is renamed dear john and hank because no human lands on mars before december thirty first. Twenty twenty seven. Oh they only six short years to go. It's yeah which is a long time. John and who knows what advancements in the field of space travel await and i look forward to those advancements on or after twenty twenty eight. We could have cars that. Take us to other galaxies in a blink as i predicted in my essay about the year twenty twenty. I just made a video about ten year old hanks projections for the year. Twenty twenty. but it's only about one of your predictions sang-ho the prediction that in two thousand twelve. 'cause like all of them were pretty normal. But then in twenty twelve your prediction for the year. Two thousand twelve that. You skimmed over in. The video was in its entirety superior fish. And i was so taken with this phrase that i google and i found out that in the whole history of the world wide web at least according to google. No one has ever to the phrase superior fish beings just one person. I just. It's my favorite phrase that you've ever said wow i was so into. I was so convinced that i was going to be a marine biologist. And then i was gonna make great varies not knowing how seasick sick i get apparently and i i guess that like the biggest discovery i could imagine was superior fish beings but wouldn't that be by big to be fair. Yes it would be something else. If tomorrow. somebody was like kay so we discovered a new species of fish also bear far more technologically advanced than human humanity. It's this is wild. Because i think about this all the time. Yeah and like. I had no idea that i had thought about it when i was ten but i constantly think about whether a species that exists only underwater there are many planets were that is the only option there is no land break on a planet like that could you have technological advancement. What would be standing in the way and this is something. I think about constantly. I don't like it. It's not like for reason or again when i'm driving. My mind is just like. I wonder if an octopus could do chemistry. Like that's where my brain goes. And i've been doing it since i was ten. I do it a lot to but my version of it is usually like when the octopus is get together and they're like You guys need to shut up. Calm down take it down a notch. That that thing you figure it out you're going to have to unlearn that young new right. Not do that one. We discovered all this stuff that we could do. But we found out that we didn't want to do. And now you're doing it and so we have to instruct you to stop. Oh god i just think it'd be hilarious. If like an elephant one day was like yeah. Okay all right. that's it First off i can talk secondly this has to end. We've been watching we've had enough and like we've been letting you go because we really like robert pattinson. We don't want to mess up his career trajectory. We're going to have to put some things. Let's answer some questions from our listeners. Beginning with this. First question from taylor who writes dear. John and hank but mostly john. It's my favorite kind of several times on this podcast john. You've referred to things as being a level one emergency. This is not just a podcast and it's not just a joke either john. We'll call things a level one emergency when it's a really big deal and it is. It's not pleasant. It doesn't make me feel good. It doesn't make anything better to realize the height of the level of the emergency but regardless continue. I find it helpful and we can talk. We can unpack it today. Are there other emergency levels. Of course there are taylor. Of course there are and if so what is the scale. What constitutes a level one emergency versus another emergency classifying catastrophes. Taylor so taylor. I want you to imagine as i do when i'm encountering an emergency that you are in a large building with many floors say nine fours and you are looking down at an emergency if you're on the ninth floor and you're looking down at the emergency you can barely see the emergency and it will probably resolve without you. Even interacting with the emergency right. That's a level nine emergency. So an example of a level nine emergency would be you have A colder flu virus. That will likely resolve on. Its own. you get to a level eight level seven emergency. That's a situation where you might have to like. Open a window and like shout some advice down to the emergency. Do something you might have to do something. But but nothing extreme when you get to a level one emergency taylor. You're on the same floor as the emergency. The emergency is is coming for you. This is the emergency is spilling into your building. And i think it is important. Hank disagrees with me. I think it is important when you are having a level one emergency to immediately acknowledge it because it changes your behavior. Well it also got an eight emergency situation where you can just call down some advice. You are in a level one emerging so so. This is extremely helpful. I'm so glad. Taylor the you ask this question because i always imagined that a level one emergency is the biggest emergency that can happen. It is no. It's it's an emergency that you need to interface with right now. They're many levels of emergencies. That one needs to interface with right. Now there's like. I am god currently being consumed by a shirt. Are you telling me that. There's a level one half emergency and i've just never found. No you've got who what you were saying. If this is the thing that we need to deal with right now and i there's a great thing to have a word for that especially when you're trying to communicate to someone that you love that this is how you feel about this situation to. You need them to get on board with you at that in that moment right. That's exactly what whoever one emergency isn't that's great. That's smart we gotta deal with this right now. Yes and there are many things that we have to deal with right now. And there's like there's like. I'm being eaten by a shark and there's we left the kids Loveys there little stuffed toys at the hotel is the first time i heard you used the phrase level when emergency to be fair about was a level one emergency well now that i know what the by the way. The only time that i've ever been bit by a shark. The first thing i said was this is august. One emergency shark to understand that. I needed to understand and i needed all the people around understand it immediately. Did you get bit by a shark. I did i did. I made that up. Do you think that. I i mean how would i ever get bit by shadow. No i don't know. I have a fr- i have a friend who got bit by a shark and it was like at miami beach. She was just in the water at miami beach. But like i was a little shark so she has the coolest scar of all time. Oh i bet. That's a really cool scar. Secondly if i ever got bit by a shark how many seconds do you think it would take me to tell the world. I got bit by a shark like would it take four years of bod casting before i heard this story of getting bit by a shark. Yeah that's a good point. John on the news. Now you wouldn't no i wouldn't you would be making a video about about. The truth is that. I would like probably spend like two to three months like crafting my narrative around being bitten by the shark and making sure that i make sure that i was like retroactively-applying a lot of thoughts and feelings to the experience of being bitten by a shark definitely didn't have your wages of aware of god but i would definitely definitely have told you that i got i agree. Thanks question from orissa. It's a logistical questions. Everybody get ready. Hello brothers green. I've recently signed up for both the awesome sox club and the bizarre b.'s. Pin club both of which. I am enamored with I've logistical question. Both cubs say that prophet is going to charity. And i'm curious what does profit mean. Can you share. Like a percentage of revenue in sales that is donated. An admirer of articulate accounting marissa. So i guess there are multiple definitions of profit but in this case. What we're talking about is the amount of money leftover after we have paid for all the things so the pain for the of paying for the sock design paying for shipment of the sock. Are the people the pack the socks we have a consultant who helps us learn how to create high quality socks and make sure that they're being made in a good way So all of that is part of the the costs of the soccer club and then normally subscription the prophet would then go to the owners of the sought club and in this case instead Is going to charity but i. There is an amount of money that has to be paid to taxes. So it's so it's basically the exact same motto is newman's own which is kind of our our platform and maybe even a little bit of our inspiration for for trying this out and hopefully maybe even doing other things like this in the future. you know. we're we're trying to make a thing that people want to buy like good salad dressing like newman's own does but but also instead of saying like well the like. What should we do with profit. I guess send it to our shareholders. We send it to to charity. Yes the way this is often described is after tax profit and we don't know exactly how much that is going to be for. Something like the awesome socks. Mingka's it hasn't happened yet and yet like this has been the case with life's library another similar subscription model where all the profits go to charity. We don't know until after the books shipped right sometimes until like a month or so after because there's returns and other stuff how much is actually going to charity. That said one thing that's been very helpful for lice. Library members is hearing once we know that number. What the number is. I have a sense of like what the margins are. But it's a very similar model to newman's own because well i guess we wanna be newman's own when we grow up. Yeah yeah i mean. I i love it so much. I think it's it's such a cool story. that pondimin was dislike. I like making it salad dressing. But i'm good because it just shows that like working hard doesn't have to be about like getting richer more richer. Whatever it's like about adding value to the world. Hank hank did you know that. Paul newman was a big fan of indycar racing. A sport that. I also followed. Because i live in indianapolis and in fact. He owned a indycar racing team. Oh well it feels like you guys had a lot in common until that last bit. yes. I feel well. There were other things that we didn't have in common like. I think that most of the time he was in a movie he didn't get cut because he was such a bad actor whereas like the one time. I was in a movie that i gave up because i was such a bad actor. How much does it cost to own. Indycar team jon. How how good is do it. All newman was doing very very well. It's it's not an inexpensive. Enterprise didn't realize was doing so or he did so well. Oh yeah he did fine. Hank it okay. I'd love to know where all paul newman's money came from. Because my my sense is that like you didn't get paid that much for movies back then. And then he wasn't in that many movies. I think it came from being may be the most famous movie star in america for thirty years so i didn't realize that about like saying like where did all beyond as money come from. Oh jeez i don't know it's hard to hard to piece it together to forensic accounting on that. I wonder if it was having forty two number one. Hit okay all right. I'm just curious john. I want to see the pie chart. Good questions this week. We're doing a terrible job. Moving through this comes from sam who writes hi john. I recently moved into a new apartment three days ago and my across the whole neighbor is a radio. Dj has to work at home. Because my god it's not the music that so bad the music is loud but it's not like shaking the house. It's the dj yelling over the music every few moments which is really annoying. I knocked on the door and asked him to turn it down. And he said sorry buddy. I'm working which i had. No response to. His wife came over later to explain a little more. She said they have explained their situation to the neighbors. But like what do i do. I understand this is livelihood. But i do not spend a lot of money each month to be trapped inside if a radio station. I do not listen to this. You're going to have to become a very big fan of this radio station This is so difficult. I lived in new york. The person who lived on top of us was an opera singer and she had to practice her opera singing. That's part of how you become an opera singer. Yeah and she would practice this for two or three hours like a day. We would hear opera singing. And i don't. I don't know a lot about opera. I mean she shoes on key. It was good singing and everything right. But it wasn't necessarily like what i would choose to listen to and yet and yet but i will say this sam when we were renting the apartment. The landlord was like there's something you should know. An opera singer lives upstairs from you and that helped a lot. It seems like you're a little bit duped into well. It was trapped inside of a radio station. You don't listen to and this is a temporary situation as the first thing. I'd say the second thing i'd say is noise cancelling headphones. Yeah i think that noise cancelling headphones. Certainly i don't know at what times of day is happening. Certainly much more tolerable in the middle of the day that at night. Oh my god. I hadn't thought of that and like i. You know i have neighbors. And they play very loud music. And i and they don't work for a radio station. They display very sick. But that's different. That's different than and seventy playing really loud music and you hear on top of that like hey hello and welcome to ninety nine point three radio station in my apartment hearing that all day would get really allow. Yeah i like. It's wild to me that you could just set up a radio station in someone's home. I figured that there was like really important equipment that you would need. I think they took the really important equipment and put it in the person's house. That's that that's what i did when i had to bar direct hit podcast from the studio to my basement. But if you're doing it live though. I don't know like you'd have to have over the internet. And then there'd be a delay. I don't know may may. Maybe they're just pre taping. Maybe the yeah the probably pre taping. Now that i've said that. But i also think like sorry buddy. I'm working is like it. He's working like he's trying to do his job during the pandemic and keep everybody safe so yes. But that's that's i feel bad for everyone in this situation. of course. yes. I'm not saying sam. This doesn't suck Same this sucks. I wonder if you could become friends with this guy and slowly over time. Make the case that what live. Radio needs is less intrusion on the music and just like a lower level of energy. I feel like hey what if you got a new job and like the jazz station or like why doesn't all radio sound like public radio where i gotta skillset. He's doing his thing. Yeah i. I do think you could ask that. This not happen at night. Yeah and i think maybe there's another unit in the apartment building not how situation. I'll tell you what sam it will be a great story. I mean yes. Having that opera singer with above us for two years in new york city had its moments of frustration. I'll be honest yeah. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the story. And is there a possibility that you could just get really into his radio show and end like there are people out there who are a fan of his right so maybe one of those people could be you and you could be like i get the behind the scenes picture. Yes twenty twenty one the year of learning to love what you thought you hated asked me another question john. This next question comes from cap who asks dear hanke john. At what point do you list someone other than your nuclear family members as emergency contacts. I'm of that weird middle stage in my twenties. Where i'm not married so i can't put my spouse on the paperwork but no longer live with my parents. Do i pick one of my friends at random and hope that they respond well if they receive a call from my doctor or something and dubious advice as appreciated pumpkins and penguins cat. I have a funny story about this so this is a long time ago. Maybe like fifteen years ago. But i got an email from someone and they were like. Hey i know. We haven't talked in a while because on account of how we broke up five years ago. But i got. I got a call from your ophthalmology saying that you'd listen appointment and just wanting to check and make sure you were okay. I guess you listed me as your emergency. I'll my god when we were dating. And now it's all this time later and it turned out that i had moved and that is why i missed the appointment but it was just a reminder that like you got to be a little careful with an emergency i wanted to say to the ophthalmologist. This is like a level twenty emergency like if you're emergency window it'd be like a miss your appointment. That's it though. You don't have to do anything else you don't have to like reach into the depths of my emergency contact for work and find the phone number of my ex girlfriend but yeah i. Is this hard one of the things. I was surprised to discover. Is that emergency. Contacts are used for things other than emergencies for example. If you have not paid your bill they contact the person your emergency contact west To ask the any like aren't answering the phone and you are trying to avoid paying a bill because you do not have the money they use the emergency contacts as a way to like. Get in touch with you which i am like. This is a little bit of a break in the contract that i have that you mentioned that i think that might have been the issue at the ophthalmologist. That makes more sense to me. If i'm being completely honest. I think there's a possibility based on my behave you're in other realms. I think there's a distinct possibility that was it. Yeah if you had a little bit of credit score rebuilding to do the main thing cat is if you're in a relationship that doesn't feel like it's going to stand the test of time. Don't put that person's heat hosting their parents. Yeah or or this or list an uncle or an aunt or someone else you trust who you know who you known for a while and you think you'll know for awhile longer Yeah i only switched over from from my parents. When it. When i was married and had been with catherine for like ten years. Oh yeah i mean. I i still sometimes list my secondary emergency contact. My parents sure. I want them to know if something goes wrong. I don't know that's that's this is where the level one emergency problem breaks down. Actually because there's like certain level when emergencies. I don't want my parents to know about your. Because i don't wanna stress them out whereas with you i have to say i want you to know about more or less all of my level one emergency because you and i don't care if it stresses you out have a deep belief that i am not stressed out in. Oh i wouldn't say it's that i think your core like hank needs to be little bit more stressed out. You know about certain things i don. I don't think you need to be more stressed out. I do think that you need to up your alertness. Sometimes i think it your background is is the lowest possible setting and i do think it should be like two settings higher. I absolutely agree that mine is too high. There's no question right like anything. There is a right amount and some of us have too much of it as what. That's why we need each other job. Which reminds me that today's podcast is brought to you by too much. Worry too much worry at another defining feature of twenty twenty one. Today's podcast is also brought to you by milk. Alright stand up. Look under your chairs. that's right everybody. Gets you get milk. You get milk. Today's vodka sauce brought to you by the level of emergency though government emergency. It's closer than you think. This podcast is also brought to you by john's ophthalmologists just contacting his ex girlfriend to let him know that he i there hasn't shown up for an appointment or more likely as a little bit delayed on his bill. It's not impossible that that is still outstanding. Oh boy deer hanke. John is supported by policy genius. Lately i've been thinking about ancient romans sun dials and the mottos inscribed on them. There were a lot of optimistic ones any our from my friends or one hour. We'll give what another has refused. But i'm not really in the mood for happy. Sundial mottoes at the moment. I want it dark. Just this side of nihilistic which was a roman sundial specialty my favorite. It's later than you think which it really is. And that's why life insurance exists policy genius allows you to compare quotes from top life insurance companies. All in one place so getting life insurance is on your to do list for twenty twenty one and god knows it should be policy. Genius can help you cross it off the list with ease in minutes you can work out. How much coverage you need and compare quotes from top insurers so go to policy genius dot com today and get started you could save fifty percent or more by comparing quotes and start the new year with one less thing to worry about. We could all use one less thing to worry about policy genius. It's later than you think is not their motto. But it should be. Their actual motto is genius when it comes to insurance. It's nice to get it right. Heck i want to answer this question from madeleine dear john and hank how do i stop thinking about my thoughts madeline. Well that seems like a john. Green question i do have this sometimes. Actually i remember being a kid and and thinking about whether or not i was ever not thinking. Oh yeah then Thinking about the fact that i was thinking about thinking and then wondering if it was possible to think about thinking about thinking and that's the point where you're like hold my beer. I'm going in. I can see it so aren just turned four recently. Yeah i graduated happening to him. Some thank you happening to him. Sometimes we were sitting at the table. And i was Probably listening to an audio book and he was sitting next to me and we were eating. Lunch quietly and he said i don't think they are. And i look over. And i was like you. Don't think what are. And he was like very quiet for a second and then he was like nothing. And i was like no now. I'm very curious. You don't think what are what and he was like. I was just thinking about stuff. And i was like but i but this is the first time i've ever gotten a chance to know what you were thinking about. Because whenever i asked my wife what are you thinking about. And he says nothing. Note that i'm like. This is the first chance i get to know what you have to tell me because now you're thinking maybe they don't and i was like what were you thinking about. And he said the. Harry crabs. And i was like the yeti crabs from octa noughts and he was like yes and i was like how you is just sitting there thinking. Yeah that's so cool because of course laundering roaming around doing all the weird things that mines do. Yeah and i don't know what he thought that they weren't doing but he probably didn't either. By the time he was finished saying it allowed. Because that's part of how thought works right like you can't trace back. Though the lines vary effectively. I don't think this is a problem. Madeline unless it's a problem for you like if you find yourself in a position where you feel like you can't participate in in this. This happens to me. So why mentioned it where it where like you can't participate in conversations because you're stuck thinking about your thoughts or you're stuck thinking about thinking about your thoughts or how do you stop thinking about thinking about you know these. These endless Reclusive loops. That i wrote the book turtles all the way down about. If you find yourself there you should probably talk to somebody who's more knowledgeable about this stuff than us A therapist or someone else in general. I kind of like thinking about thinking. Yeah i i really like Noticing that i'm having thought and being like how did i get here and then tracing it back is really interesting that i can do that. Like it's left enough of an impression that they it hasn't left short term memory yet. And i can be like oh. It's because was looking at my shoes and that took me to here to here to here to here in the ended up on roommates and i think that's cool and like where does my where does my mind go. And what are the like. Well-trod enough paths that i ended up in these places over and over again. Like octopus is doing chemistry. Which is one of mine lake right. I end up at octopus doing chemistry all the time and then of course. Sometimes it's like that really really awful dumb thing. I did in high school. Yes and like. That's both embarrassing but also was actually kind of harmful and and like i ended up there all the time. Yes how did i get there right. What brought me to it. Yeah i often end up at my mortification. Yeah when i am left alone with my thoughts. And i i almost always end up in stupid places actually thought for long enough. I weirdly think of other people's modifications as well. Oh i don't it sympathetically not like as like okay. Yeah like that. That must have been so yeah. I don't yeah. I wonder if people think about my more. Let's move move malaga. We got to inception with got got to dream inside of the dream cat. Who has tear john for my limit understanding of money. There must be a finite amount of it for it to have value right so my question is how much money is there in the world if you could convert it into british pounds for me. That would help me understand because american dollars. Nothing to no curiosity ask cat. Oh god i was converting two pounds. John oh god it's about eight trillion dollars at him not converting it to pounds. That's the matter it doesn't like it. None of those numbers make any sense at all at that scale this. That's the that's the calculated size of the global economy. Well the all kinds of different ways to count this so like the physical money is one thing right which is very different to the amount of money that people have. Because you know you have money in your checking account and saving account And that number is like thirty seven trillion dollars. But then there's also all this other money that people have that's like stored in their property or you know it's like not easily easy to spend. It's not like in your account or it's or owns other things like right or you can calculate it by the size of the global gross domestic product which is the overall amount of economic activity in the world which is valued at eighty eight trillion dollars. But but it. None of these are quite right right. Well there's there's this is the really upsetting one for me. This is that if you count investments and derivatives then. It's far far more like goes up by two orders of magnitude or something year and it's like in the quadrille because derivatives. Are these like you can. You can own a thing more than once. And i'm just like right act to turn it off this is this seems way too dangerous. The elephants are here. And they're like okay. I had to speak up because it turns out derivatives. Were just making us too nervous. you think. That's the thing that they're worried about. Not like the complete failure of extractive capitalism to appropriately value natural resources. I think the only about probably that one. But like i think derivatives have a part to play for sure in in that conversation. The thing to remember is that what the economy really runs on is faith yes. The amount of money ultimately deep down that exists is the amount of money that ultimately deep down. We believe exists. Yeah and and the other piece of it is that money is tied to actual value so value is done for me by my home. I gotta live on the inside and it's warm and value has done for us by the people who take care of us who teach us who feed us and money is not that tied to value but a milk and money is money is away. No i agree that money is not that value but how we value. The things in our lives is tied to like how much it costs to open the ma and just because i think costs an amount this is where like the usually moderate john and the usually radical. Hank actually switch place. I i think that money is a very very poor substitute for value. And that it. I agree with you and that it shouldn't. It shouldn't be taught as such because that's not really. What money does money facilitates the exchange of goods and services. Yeah yes money does not assign value to things no and when it tries to it does a really really bad right and we and we and we do that all the time because money is easy to count value. Isn't exactly yeah. We could reshape the economy. So that money did a better job of reflecting value. But we don't because people don't want to to pay lot people who currently have a lot of them money to. Yeah because they would have much less of it right. Money is weird and we made it up. I really recommend jacob goldstein's book he hosted this podcast with me. A while back is the coast planet money and he wrote a book about money. The true story of a made up thing and it's very interesting. And i found it helpful in thinking about the stuff arctic before we get to the all important news from mars. Nhc i want to answer one more question from hannah. Who writes dear john. Nick i got to thinking about how every planet you see portrayed in movies and books is a sphere but are these just like based on our own solar system of spherical planets like are there cylindrical. Planets pyramid planets cubes. Is it possible that other shapes of planets exist hank as possible. Well a couple of ways it is not And in one very specific way it is So a planet is actually weirdly enough defined as being spherical. Oh so so of in order for a body to be considered a planet it has to be spherical It's not the only qualifying characteristic but it is one of them. And and but the reason for this i always get really sort of upset by qualifying characteristics because because we tend to think okay like the definition of a planet is now that it spherical. But it's only because we're sort of like forced into drawing a line where where like there isn't a clear line but if a body is large enough it will form into a sphere. I spent like now. It depends on what the body is made of. So obviously if it's liquid it turns into a sphere very quickly In zero gravity sort of situation So it just spheres itself up which you just put a bottle of water if gives. Put a drop of water on the space station. It's gonna turn into a sphere. So that same thing happens in space with a ball of like molten rock that is a planet that is for made format of the protoplanetary disk. So that like a if it is a big enough rock it's gonna turn itself into his sphere because the gravity is going to grab the things that are high up and pull it back down and Until it becomes relatively smooth and we think of the earth is being quite bumpy because we look up we see mountains and looked down and we see values in oceans and stuff but the earth if you averaged it out and like shrunk it down smoother than a pool ball. Wow so it's extremely spherical. Wow so because of this property that like a big enough object will turn itself into a sphere. We find that a convenient place to to kind of draw a line as to what a planet is And that's why things like series which a the the largest object in the asteroid belt is a dwarf planet because it is spherical because it is large enough to cry to form itself into a sphere whereas all the other asteroids are not big enough to do that I think there might be one other one or so. Wait so how it planet not be a sphere. The only way for a planet to not be a sphere is if it was artificially constructed. Oh so if someone decided to make like a cube the size of a planet that is not a that is not a thing that would be technically impossible. It would be extraordinarily difficult and would provide. No advantages is going to say it. It doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that One would do for any reason other than pure aesthetic which is not generally what drives planet formation in my experience. It would be very weird. One of the one of the nice things about a cubic planet for example is that if you had atmosphere it wouldn't surround the whole cube it would be in pockets around the lowest points on the cube so that would be a circle of atmosphere on every face of the cube and then also a circle of water. that would actually sort of dome up In that area weird and that would be really cool in weird so that that is young. Only reason to do it is that it would be really cool and weird. And they would those. Those six faces would be entirely isolated from each other with no atmosphere shared and so they would basically have no idea that the other one existed which is just a cool thought experiment in no way of sharing climate or genetic diversity or molecules or anything so basically they would be six planets isolated from each other with no idea that the other ones existed. I mean that that actually is pretty interesting. We should do that. I should do that as soon as we can. All right johnson. everybody. I'm in the the easiest way to do. It would be to start with a spherical plan and then build like a cubic scaffold around it know. Just just start hammering shaved the edges off. Genie is a really big chisel. All right he can sign for the important news from mars afc wimbledon. I'll go first in a stunning turn of events. Afc wimbledon have lost a football game boy a lot lately. Yes so over. The so-called festive period. As as it is known in english football circles wimbledon lost three games all three of the games that they played in we gave up a a lead or a tying position twice and then the other time didn't score at all. So that's that it's pretty discouraging and worrisome. The only bit of good news from the last few weeks in. Afc wimbledon results is that ali palmer. Who you'll recall is are extremely large forward. Did score a goal against lincoln city which is good. It's good that he's scored. Because that was his first goal for wimbledon the season and hopefully it portends brighter things to come but this is a really a difficult period. Now that wimbledon have entered and it's frustrating because we looked pretty good at the start of the season and now suddenly We are just one place away from relegation. Just two points from from the relegation-zone i know with a little under half the season to go so we have some time to figure this out but we do need to figure it out having lost four of our last five games. So gosh did everybody just realized how you plan and they were like. Oh we know how to play these people now because this seemed you're playing a weird kind of football in the beginning. Yeah in the beginning. It was very joyful and expressive. Which is not like. Afc wimbledon at all should've been playing more stoic defensive physical etcetera. I think part of it is luck. I think we were probably overperforming early in the season based on our overall kind of budget everything that said i mean this is the fourth or fifth season in a row that we've just been barely trying to scrape by And stay in league one and i. I know a lot of fans are really frustrated. I mean they're frustrated because they can't be at the games obviously. This is a weird way especially when you're talking about third tier football. That isn't widely televised. Unless you have the. I follow app like this. Just a weird way to follow your club. Most of the people who follow afc wimbledon. This has been the hardest period. I think of of the five years that. I've i've been a fan Mostly because of outside stuff. It's just you know. The wider situation is so bad that it inevitably has an effect on sports. Yeah well i mean if you get relegated then you'll win a bunch of games so that'll be nice. Maybe it's not at all clear to me that we wouldn't be one of the worst teams in league two. But but yeah maybe what are you guys need. We need to give up your goals. We we give we. We actually have given more up more goals from winning or tying positions than any team in the top. Four leagues of england. So that's just completely unacceptable so we need to. We need a stronger defense and we also just need to be a little more. I don't know we just haven't looked good. I'm not an expert. What's the news from mars. Well so we're always talking about like mark like missions that are on their way to mars but one of the things that happens is that way before missions arrive at mars or get to mars. We decided to make them. And this week we know a little bit more about a future mission to mars called the mars ice napper. It was originally announced as part of the nasa budget request back in february and when that happened it was a bit of a surprise. Like we didn't really know about it or know much about it. But in the past few months nasa officials have been releasing more information. So as you might imagine the goal is to map the ice on mars and do to do that. Nasa is going to be working with the canadian space agency to put a radar instrument on an orbiter which is a thing we've already done with other orbiters. Like the mars reconnaissance orbiter the ice map radar will be able to create maps of water ice and other geologic activity on mars surface and those maps will be important for understanding the geology of but also for possible future human exploration of the planet so in addition to canada japan their space agencies involved. So will the italian space agency and potentially other commercial collaborations. Because we're now open to that and that seems to be happening more often if everything goes according to plan that mission will launch in twenty twenty six. Oh so just before the people three months before all the humans. Wow that's exciting though. It's really space as one of those places where we see big international collaboration that i have to say i find very encouraging especially in times where resources are sometimes hoarded and not shared. It's nice to know that when it comes to space exploration we do try to work together as a human team agreed john and speaking of working together as a human team. We are now off to record our patriotic. Only podcast this week and stuff over at patriotair dot com slash. Dear hankins john. We do that every week to talk about stuff that we like. And that's helping get through this strange period of human history and we are very grateful to everybody who supports us over there because that money goes to help out complexly and all of its projects from crash. Course show thanks. This podcast is edited by joseph medicines produced by roseana sheraton gibson our communications coordinator. Julia bluhm our editorial assistant is the bookie dropped the music you hang now at the beginning of the podcast is by the great rolla and as they say in our hometown. Forget to be awesome.
01-Milky Way Marvels: Europa
"Hey before we continue. I got of course. Have you ever thought about doing a podcast herself. But maybe you have no idea where to start. Well if you haven't heard about anchor. Hey it's the easiest way to make podcast it's free. They've got creation tools. That lets you record. And edit your podcast right from your phone or your computer. I mean to can't get much easier than that and if you'd like money you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. If you're into that but the bottom line is it's everything you need to make a podcast all in one place. Download the free anchor app or go to anchor dot. Fm to get started. This episode is supported by the comics. Section podcast network space. Humans have marveled at the wonders beyond since the beginning. It's probably safe to say that most people on an average day probably don't pay attention to what's going on up there yet when we do. It's quite obvious that we are moved. I think back on the eclipse of two thousand seventeen and the world's reactions to it. Yes it's just that dark out here and it's getting darker as we look. Okay here we go listen to the chair. I think it says a lot. Let's listen for a moment okay. Now we switched over to night vision because day has turned tonight here at this little moment that you're sharing with the rest of the nation. What do you feel in your heart man. This incredible actually to be here amongst all these in for everybody to come together to see this. I think is incredible. I spoke to a gentleman over here. Who told me that you know in a divided nation. He'd like to bottle this moment in keeping. How do you feel in a country where we have somebody divisions that today fifteen thousand people are standing here in carbondale inside the stadium looking up and sharing a moment together. I think it just shows us how powerful we can be when we all come together even with everything that's going on. You got all different type faces and people out here. They came together this moment. It is incredible it really is. I'm i'm kinda gideon sort of all of all of this with mother nature. Yeah man it is like like. I didn't notice possible especially in our lifetime to be able to see something like this is crazy. This incredible so. I'd like to know if you have a fever planet. Let's go even further. What's your favourite. not sure. well have. I got a great option for you. Cast presented by sonic embassy. Lip dog episodes zero one her milky way. Marvel's your robot. So what is your favorite planet. Neptune and uranus because neptune's blue and it's you know cs neptune elisabeth water in urine is because it's been one inside and it still has a little ring which i think is pretty i would to say that saturn is my favorite planet Because of its of course amazing rings around it I think these rings are really really cool because they basically taste. What could be considered trash voting around speed. He's old broken comets asteroids and they sucks them into this rings some and you know with a little bit of ice in there it basically make these amazing rings that saturn and we even get sick. Enjoy them through telescopes today. I think it's just incredible. My favorite planet would be earth who well played good answer. Okay what would you guess as my favorite planet besides earth of course mars. That'd be good guests saturn but if you guessed jupiter you are a winner. I feel like mars gets all the attention. But jupiter has been my fever planet in our solar system for a long long time which is a topic for another episode while many of us have a favorite planet. One thing that often gets overlooked are moons. Now even if you don't know much about any of the planetary moons in our solar system you at least know about one. It's the most famous moon we know. It's the greatest of all the moons in our solar system. We have pages of you so called loon as just the pictures aren't of your faces doesn't mean we can't identify you know not that moon. I'm sure you've already guessed which one i'm talking about. Look up and you can see it with your naked eyes. Yep our moon earth's moon. I'm talking about a moon so great. We call it v. Moon our moon is very important to us to our planet yet. It's somewhat bland it's sterile. Don't get me wrong. I love la luna but when you think about other planets moons out there you might just automatically think that they would be like ours look like ours are pretty much always been fascinated by astronomy science fiction science fantasy and while i knew all of our planets in order from the sun for the longest time which very product including uranus that was the obligatory uranus. Joke okay no. It's urine us all right. Get that joke out of the way. I never really paid attention. To any of their moons. This new fascination of mine is fairly recent. Let me take you back. I think it was early to mid two thousands. I was at work. But you know with my super short attention span. I was not working. You know what. Let's let's call it taken boy. And something sparked my thoughts to look at some astronomy stuff. And when i think back it was probably the cassini mission to saturn. That was ramping up so it was most likely the summer of two thousand four. We're excited here at nasa jet propulsion laboratory in pasadena california because we we're about thirty six hours away from reaching saturn today. We'll have an overview. The cassini wiggins mission a cooperation between nasa the italian space agency and the european space agency that was natalie godwin from nasa s-. Gpo in june of two thousand four. And there is where i fell down the rabbit i discovered a website called nine planets dot. Org i begin browsing and reading up on the planet's most likely starting with saturn's stats. What was big at the time. They had a breakdown of each. Planet's major moons some great images of them and i was drawn to one moon in particular. Now there are some really really cool looking. Moons out there to me like saturn. Saturn has some really cool looking moons like enceladus with white icy surface cracks in lines. That reminded me of a ball of rubber bands. It's weird i know. And don't get me wrong enceladus up there at the top awesomeness and probably deserves. Its own episode right now. I'm talking about one. in particular. There was also tighten which had an atmosphere was thought to be kind of earth. Like which was so cool. I remember seeing my miss or memes. Which looks like the menacing death star from the star wars movies heading for that small moon. Get him before he gets there. He's almost in range. It's a space station too. Big a space station or a giant eyeball i the most flying ever seen eyeball and jupiter protector of earth had some really cool looking moons to four really striking once. Well this makes sense. Because jupiter is the most awesome planet. We have right okay. Well i suppose that's debatable. Whatever but seriously besides having some of the dopey sounding names these four moons are really really cool. They are jupiter's. Four largest moons to as the galilee and sore satellites named after the italian astronomer who discovered them galileo galilei in the year sixteen ten there was ghanimi which is the largest moon in the solar system which had these dark areas that kind of reminded me of birth in some strange way and also looked like someone drops white pain on. I saw callisto. A gorgeous the second largest of the galileo moods which looked like it had writes inside. Like if you were to flatten it and unroll it like a map. It would look like a snap shot of the night sky. Callisto is probably my second favorite most interesting looking moon in our solar system. I also saw the third largest move. I o with its strange yet at the same time very pretty green orange yellow louis looking colors of sofer and zip like bulk gino's in part because of jupiter's immense gravitational pull on i o i o is the most volcanically active body in the solar system. It's like i was always simmering ready to explode wonder if i was a teenage daughter. I o reminds me of something. I would see when i make the mistake of looking at my face. And my wife's super-duper magnification mirror in the bathroom but prettier than that. And then. I saw her the baby of the galileo about the size of earth smoke. You know that mean of the guy who's with his girl and he's looking back at the other girl and his his girls looking at him like. Hey how could you or in the movie. Batman from nineteen eighty nine when looking at photos and press girl style. Hey seuss marimba beasts like that. Could put stephen a man strides. Stay inside the lines. That's how i felt with all those cool looking moons. And then i see this one. I believe the images i saw were taken from the galileo. Orbiter from nineteen ninety eight. I can't explain why. I was so drawn to this to this heavenly body. Something seemed different. Captivating there was something smooth about her surface yet not smooth it all something about her colors. Perfect blend of white with subtle hints of blue in along with visually stunning whites and blues. It was another prominent color. These reddish brown lines crisscrossing over the surface like veins or like the rosy cheeks of a blushing. Perhaps something about it reminded me of the fictional is snowy planet called hot in the star wars universe featured in the movie the empire strikes back. Might that so many uncharted settlements it could be sputtered as could act as the system set. Joe cost for the hot system. General is very whenever it was that grabbed me about europa. I found her majestic resplendent. All inspiring she was. She is beautiful. And why do we always refer to objects female. That sounds like a topic for future episodes but but enough about her looks. I needed to find out more about this heavenly body so i started to read about your own. And that's where the real intrigued began. Imagine that when you go beyond looks and get to know something or someone you can gain an entirely deeper perspective and like them even more or not so here. We go remember how i said. That europa's surface look kinda smooth now as it turns out it is smooth relatively smooth the smoothest of any known solid object in our solar system. There are no mountains. Very few craters and no valley's and there is a really awesome reason for that scientists. Figured out that europa's surface is mostly water ice and there is strong evidence that all that ice is a global ocean of liquid water. Are you kidding me awesome. Let's go back in time. Nine thousand nine hundred seventy not makes a close fly. By of europa the intersecting linear features that are observed suggest cracks in ice over liquid water. We need more so inter. Galileo orbiter start launched in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine aboard space shuttle and liftoff of atlantis and the galileo spacecraft bound for jupiter and like the astronomer from whom it got its name galileo's michelle was to explore the big jupiter and its area or system for two years in more detail than it ever been possible that time to think. You're claire. not only are we in orbit. But we're in a very good orbit. The information about europa galileo sent was so intriguing that the mission was extended to make a total of twelve close fly bys of the icy mall see. It's not just me so on september. Twenty six thousand nine hundred ninety eight nasa galileo spacecraft in one of its eleven fly bys of europa most likely snapped those images. That stole my geeky heart here. Is dr claudia alexander. Galileo program manager in september of two thousand three. We learned just mind changing things. Every time we went by the moon europa the estimates of its age began to drop dramatically. All it's not three billion years it's it's one billion years and then i'll step several hundred million years crater counts seems to show that why it's it could be ten thousand years. You know. I mean it just dropped until now. We're thinking that will maybe it's still active. Maybe there's a a layer of liquid water under there that might be relatively close to the surface. Maybe there's an appropriate environment suitable for some sort of extraterrestrial life mean. This is just It was science fiction. We started out. We went there in what they call an exploratory mode. We don't know anything and we're just there to like see what we can see and what we learned was phenomenal. So it was one of that was the style of mission that it was and was you know definitely worth its weight in gold scientists. Think that europa's ocean may have twice as much water. As all the earth's oceans combined europa is thought to be at least one hundred kilometers or sixty two miles deep and covers entire globe so what makes scientists theorize that there is a liquid ocean. There i mean of all the conclusions one could conclude water. Really what i mean. Isn't that too far away from the sun. isn't everything in space too cold. well i. it's her smooth skin. If you notice it seems like most moons have well a crater. Fay's now let's be clear. You should never call another human being that only planets and moons. Okay take for instance our moon. It has impact craters. You can see with your naked eye as do most. If not all months. But with europa the surface we see today is much younger than europa itself. In fact europa has among the youngest surfaces in the solar system. It's as if you rupa. Surface has been paved over and look at this image of europa. The surface looks very different from say the surface of the moon or mercury. Those bodies are very heavily impact crater. They got a lot of cratering scars on them whereas european you can see has hardly any. I'm not sure you can even make any out of the scale now. We use the number of impact craters on the surface of a body as a proxy for age. We assume that things like comet some meteorites that are coming into a system impact the surface on a fairly constant basis and so if something has a lot of them that means that it's been sitting there getting this weathering process for a very long time whereas something doesn't have many craters. It's probably very young. And in the case of europa something has happened to erase the impact scars on the surface and in this case it could be tectonic features so faults and fractures on the surface. That could raise whatever's come before it could be some kind of cry vocalism and it certainly could be chaos and in fact the average age of europa is thought to only be about sixty million years now on human time scales. That's a very long time but in geological timescales. That's the blinker and i. It was almost born yesterday on the surface so you are already has a very young surface aid that was planetary scientists. Louise's proctor in two thousand eleven while europa surface is relatively smooth. It does a lot of cracks. Europa's surface is a chaotic mix of ridges bands spall rounded domes and disrupted spaces that geologists call well chaos terrain throughout europa's orbit around jupiter. At times she is closer to joop other times farther away. It's thought that this causes a sort of high tide. Low tie when it's high tide. The see beneath the ice rises higher than normal. If that's true the constant rising and lowering of the sea pushes up the ice and therefore causes many of the cracks. We've seen ridges may form when cracking the surface opens and closes repeatedly areas of so-called chaos. Terrain contain blocks that of sideways rotated or tilted before being refrozen into their new locations. I'll let the experts explain it in a different way. This is britney schmidt postdoctoral fellow from the institute for geophysics university of texas austin in two thousand eleven. We're excited about rope. Oh because it represents a place that's somehow and yet strangely familiar and so I'm excited to tell you about lakes on europa. These are two images of geologic terrain taken by the galileo spacecraft and they show what's called chaos terrain. These are broken up. Regions of the surface characterized by a brown textured material. We call matrix and large icebergs in many cases which you can see in both of these images. One of the motivations for the study was to try to understand. Why are these two features so similar and so different on the left ear seeing thera- macula and on the right you're saying connemara. Chaos connemara chaos is in fact perhaps the archetype of chaos terrain and gives us a picture of what your rope was. Activity may have looked like it's been thought for some time. This represented the interaction of ice and water. But how that how that actually works out has needed more explanation and so we went to work on trying to understand this and so the way that we gave perspective to the problem of chaos formation roper was looking environments on earth where water and ice in iraq these two important analogs or examples of this process here on earth are subglacial volcanoes and collapsing ice shelves and so in a subglacial volcano essentially. What you have is a heat source underneath a thick cover of ice and what it does to create localized melt that actually forms a lens shaped lens shaped lake just below the surface of the ice. Which interesting about that. Is that the water kind of sits there and gets to interact with the ice above in antarctica. We see great examples of collapsing ice shelves with these ice shelves. Do is they sit there for millions of years and then fill up with fractures and then break under their own weight or with help from the water that gets into fractures in those environments and so with that context we formulated a model for how europa might work some. Show you a little demonstration. Before i show you an image so if you imagine that we start off with europa basically made up of ice that's fractured but basically just sitting there. And then we add some water. This water comes up from. Below is 'cause it's melting that's caused by plume of material much like a mantle plume on the earth coming up underneath this brittle ice and filling it up with water as the lake forms. Actually start to see the icebergs float. You've noticed that these have been turning around and rotating in the glass and the case of europa. There's also a thick material called matrix material. That's crushed up ice that switz- also on the surface of the water never have liquid water on the surface but the water is actually causing the icebergs to float and rotate and to break up the ice around it. What's interesting. Is that if you were to go back. And look at this lake on europa l- much later it would actually be frozen out may be resemble something like this where you've got icebergs and matrix material pushed up the entire frozen out and so in the next slide. We have an image of what that process might look like. It's just a cartoon. Image on the left were showing a collapsing lake with. Icebergs popped up above the surface and and the matrix materials starting to fill up with salt rich water from the lake below. This is the process that breaks up the surface and causes it. To look the way we think it does On the right hand side we see a snapshot of this process much later once the ice once the water in the lake is actually frozen out one of the interesting observations of europa has been that they're chaos features that are dropped down below the surface and cast features that are perched up above the surface with these dome like textures. They always have in common. Some is or some broken up material but ones down in ones high and what this does is to put those in perspective as a timescale. Dropdown means active today with liquid water lens and frozen out is popped up above the surface with domes and and solid icebergs. And so if you go to the next slide. This is that first image. That i showed you of the to chaos terrains. But in fact in this case we're showing you the topography overlaid on top of the image. If you look at the image on the left which is therapeutic. You'll you'll notice that the center of the feature is depressed down below the service in fact as much as four hundred eight hundred meters which means that a giant pocket of liquid water still exists below this body today. What's also interesting is just like in this glass of water. The icebergs are popped up above the surface if we look on the right image of connemara. Chaos you've noticed the instead. The terrain is much lump here. And it's characterized by this reddish color. Which means that. The surfaces popped up and it's filled with water and then frozen and so on the left. We have an active feature on the right. We have an older feature that had a lake at one time but might have already frozen out today. We've also prepared a video for you of how the process might look on europa if you notice there's warmer ice down from the bottom right. Near the ocean interface moving its way up causing warming and causing melting kind of right in the middle of the ice show as that starts to form a brings the surface down because water takes up less volume than the ice it replaces so the surface collapses down icebergs start to float around. Break up the ice around it and then as it re freezes its free to dome back up and create the features that we see today that look like connemara chaos so this is in fact what we think it might be like on europa ask these features are forming and to turn back to the earth. Example here is a video of this process happening in greenland of very similar process. What you're looking at is yacob's topping glacier as icebergs calved from the front of the glacier turnover and exhibit there. You go big big iceberg flipping over and floating around in a matrix of broken up brash. Ice which is rich and water but still really a solid so this is what it might look like on your robo. Witnessing it relatively live. That sounds so awesome. Okay but still. How could there be liquid water amid all that coldness not to mention that far away from the sun. Will scientists think that this title tug and pull energy that we just talked about this flexing turns into friction and heat like when you rub your hands together. Friction and heat. Remember how i mentioned that the other moon i o gets mad because i dared go into a room and kiss her and oei sorry i l is still volcanically active which is thought to be caused by this friction and heat and on europa would be warm enough to help maintain liquid water. Use robert papa. Lardo europa mission project scientist in two thousand sixteen. We know earth moon is pretty cold and dead today. So shouldn't europa have lost all of its internal heat by now after four and a half billion years just like our moon has lost most of its internal heat. There's another source of heating out there. That doesn't apply at least doesn't apply anymore to our moon and that's called tidal heating coming from tidal flexing europa as it orbits jupiter gets a little closer and a little farther. The orbits little egg-shaped little bit eccentric when europa is closest to jupiter is stretched out more and when it's farthest from jupiter contracts a bit and kind of like bending a paper clip back and forth that generate t frictional heat as europe is flexed every time it orbits jupiter jupiter every eighty five hours every three and a half birthdays. It's ice shell is flexing by about thirty meters. That's the prediction for how much it would flex as it goes around. That'll generate a lot of heat. Some of you may know i. O europa's neighbor is the most volcanically active body in the solar system. That's the moon. One in the galleon moon one in from europa it flexes something like one hundred meters. It's crazy A to generate all that heat. I oh well a little farther out at europa. It's not enough to make a super volcanically active body but it's enough. We think to maintain a liquid water. We don't know how much of that title heap is in the rocky part of europa if the title heat is just in the ice shelf that's enough to maintain an ocean but it could be that there's a bunch of heat put into the mantle as well to keep it warm and for there to be Volcanoes down on the sea floor of europa. We don't know yet. Another reason why scientists are pretty confident that you wrote a has an ocean of liquid water. Is that there are fluctuations in jupiter's magnetic field near europa. This suggests that there is a conductor of some sort. Scientists feel that there is an electrically conductive fluid most likely a global salty ocean. Under europa's ice layer. Here's kevin hand. Astrobiologists and planetary scientists in twenty fourteen through careful analysis of the gravity probations experienced by the gallup spacecraft as it flew by europa and doing the gravity inversion for the moment of inertia that leads to an internal mass distribution our internal density distribution for europa. Where we've got an iron or an iron sulfur core a silicate rocky mantle and then an outer layer a layer of roughly one hundred to two hundred kilometers of unit density material and the simplest explanation for that unit density material is water and either liquid or solid phase. Now the the gravity information is insufficient to reveal the density difference between solid and liquid water. And so the second piece of the puzzle leaves us with this picture of europa. Where we've got a lot of water but don't yet have an ocean to get to the ocean. We need the final piece of the puzzle. And that i like to make the analogy to adhering to airport security. So what happens when you walk through a metal detector at an airport. What's happening is that you're walking through a time varying magnetic field and if you've got a conductor in your pocket not time varying magnetic field and that little doorway gives rise to induced electric currents in that conductor in your pocket and that those induced electric currents give rise to an induced magnetic field and within that little doorway our special detectors that are searching for that induced magnetic field and the alarm goes out at europa when the galileo spacecraft flew by europa the alarm essentially went off galileo had a fancy compass onboard magnetometer and that magnetometer was able to detect an induced magnetic field around europa a magnetic field that was not intrinsic to europa but was being caused and mediated by jupiter's incredibly strong a time varying field again a lot of math that i won't go into tonight. This third piece of the puzzle leads to is that you need some near surface conducting layer analogous to the conductor in your pocket. When you're walking through airport security you need some conductor in your pocket to create that induced magnetic field and the best explanation for that induced magnetic field is a salty liquid water layer near the surface of europa and iron core. Sure that's conductive but it's too far away from the spacecraft to explain the induced magnetic field signature those rocky silicates. They're not conductive enough to explain that. Induce magnetic field signature ice even ice dope with salts still not conductive enough the best explanation for the induced magnetic field signature. Is this salty. Liquid water ocean overlain by isobel of a few to maybe ten or fifteen kilometers in thickness another reason. Scientists conclude that europa has liquid water. Is that in two thousand. Nineteen researchers detected water vapor using one of the world's biggest telescopes. The wm kick observatory in hawaii. They detected enough releasing from europa about fifty two hundred pounds or twenty three hundred kilograms per second to fill an olympic sized swimming pool with minutes. If that's true. Whoa also that yellowish color plum part of europa. It's actually sodium chloride aka table saw which is also the principal component of seesaw. Since the icy shell is geologically young and features abundant evidence of past geologic activity. It was suspected that whatever salts exist on the surface may come from the ocean below in a laboratory. Simulated conditions on europa at nasa's jpl or jet propulsion laboratory in pasadena california usa plain white table salt or sodium chloride turned a shade of yellow similar to that visible geologically young area of europa known as terror. Regio now the color is significant because scientists can now deduce that the yellow color previously observed on portions of the surface of europa is actually sodium chloride or that table saw the jpl lab. Experiments matched temperature pressure and electron radiation conditions at europa surface. So that is pretty convincing evidence. That europa is the coolest move up. Whoops sorry. I mean that europa has an ocean of water in a moment the biggest reason europa is a special target. Were more scientific study. And why i am not alone in my feels when it comes to my beloved europa okay. So the biggest reason that europa is a special target for scientific study is its potential to hold life so to sum up the ingredients for life water much more than all of the earth's oceans combined central elements. Well we dark reddish stuff. We don't know if they're organics there. We don't really know the composition yet. We have to find out really. We know number one number two well if ideas we we need to keep exploring and get there and find out what one would think. From europa's formation from later impacts bringing the right materials to europa that it should probably be there the right elements to build organic molecules. Carbon hydrogen phosphorus nitrogen. Sulfur chemical energy is a hard one. So what we're talking about again is is. Could there be enough energy for life down here in the ocean because you're not going to get sunlight. You're not gonna get photosynthesis going on down beneath twenty kilometers rice for that matter. Light penetrates not too far into ice well on earth. There are lots of organisms. That don't care about sunlight. They live off other chemical reactions. These guys don't care about some light. They live off the chemical energy from these black smokers. On the earth's ocean floor is places where water has seeped through cracks pores in the rock and hit places in iraqi interior. Where warm rock is welling up and that water gets charged with chemical nutrients comes back out into the cold water and those chemical munitions just condense out and these critters live very close to such things so could there be chemical energy for life at europa will see seafloor there might be very similar chemical energy pouring out of the subsurface and we've got another source to the h. two o. here getting bombarded by radiation breaking up into h in leaving the oxygen behind if all the oxygen and other oxidants. On europa's surface could be dumped. Into europa's ocean europa's ocean would have more would be more oxygenated than earth. Oceans are so. There's the potential for lots of fuel for life. At europa's surface that could get if it can get into the ocean circulation of ice. Shell like that. Convection talked about or like melting to form these chaos regions is really critical understanding. What's going on inside the shell to the idea of whether there could be life at europa. Can we get those oxidants. The fuel for life into europa's ocean once again. That was robert papa. Lardo so i'm gonna go out on a limb here and proclaim as a matter of fact that europa is an amazing place. Tell me i'm wrong. You can't because i'm not but seriously thing is. I'm not the only person captivated by this fascinating. Celestial object europa has been featured in literary works like in nineteen eighty-two arthur c. clarke science fiction novel two thousand ten odyssey to a somewhat sequel to two thousand one a space odyssey. Here's a clip. From the audiobook narrated by in this section a chinese spacecraft had landed on europa presumably to refuel using water from europa but as things always go and science fiction they went very wrong another ship that is approaching jupiter with a joint russian. American crew has picked up a faint transmission. From europa's surface from a professor chang ching reports the destruction of their ship and the existence of life on europa. Ear is the last part of his message exposed. Free water doubled for a few minutes until the scab of protective ice field from the vacuum of above. Then i walked back to the ship to see if there was anything to salvage. I don't want to talk about that. Only two requests to make dr when the taxonomic classified this creature. I hope they'll named after me. When the next ship comes on ask them to take off bones back into china. Jupiter will be cutting us off in a few minutes. I wish i knew whether anyone was receiving me anyway. I'll repeat this message when we're in line of sight again if i suits like support system lasts that long. This is professor john. On europa reporting the destruction of spaceship jet canal is set up off. The edge of the signal faded abruptly came back for a moment then disappeared completely below the level. Although lay on listened again on the same frequency there was no further message from professor. John europa's even in video games like call of duty infant warfare six tenths. We remove gaza boots on ground. Dorado with your position gopal move and destiny to. This is what i want to see. Hollywood has noticed to like the two thousand thirteen science. Fiction film called europa reward. Good morning i'm very. We are all very excited to be here today. Really is a new step for mankind. It's a found footage. Film that recounts the fictional story of the first crew mission to europa where we come from and are we allow. I'll croft was heading for a move to pretend and as europan prep over the transfer. We are clear jupiter's orbit itching gentleman. No don ahead of us hopes of success is under the ice scrapers swimming prey. Gay seeing this come turn out. The way in which europa is visually depicted in. These is actually quite stunningly beautiful. The imagination of these authors of these creators of the possibilities of what it would be like to actually visit to step foot on these marvels is a testament to their power and how small we humans really are so. When will we make another visit. I mean pioneer ten and eleven did fly bys in nineteen seventy three and seventy four respectively. Voyager one and voyager two last flew by nineteen seventy nine and now they're looking at our solar system in the rear view mirror the galileo spacecraft is gone which did its job amazingly around jupiter for almost eight years and basically ran out of gas and was purposely flown into jupiter so as not to crash into europa and contaminate her so as of this moment the juno spacecraft is orbiting nearby since two thousand sixteen but juneau's mission is focusing on the big guy jupiter. Which i'm for sure not mad at so. Besides the hubble space telescope and the james webb space telescope giving a look are we now left to our imaginations or what hollywood comes up with actually and fortunately no nasa is building a mission called. Europa clipper nastase. Europa clipper mission will place a spacecraft in orbit around jupiter in order to perform a detailed investigation of europa. The mission will send a highly capable radiation tolerance spacecraft and to a long looping orbit around jupiter to perform forty five close fly bys of the icy mon so to help with the study nasa selected nine science instruments for the mission including cameras and spectrometers to produce high resolution images of euro per surface and determine its composition. An ice penetrating radar will determine. The thickness of europa's icy shell and search for subsurface lakes similar to those beneath antarctica. It's going to have a magnetometer to determine the depth and salinity of its ocean. A thermal instrument will serve. Rope is frozen surface in search of recent eruptions of warmer water at or near the surface while additional instruments will search for evidence of water and tiny particles in the moon's thin atmosphere. Europa clipper is set to launch. Sometime in twenty twenty s. But nasa isn't the only agency on the planet working on getting to europa the european space agency or isa is also developing a mission called juice short for jupiter icy moons explore juice is the first large class mission in isa's cosmic vision twenty fifteen to twenty twenty-five program. It's going to spend at least three years. Making detailed observations of jupiter and three of its moods not just europa but also callisto and a special focus on ghanimi from isa jupiter is the archetype for the giant planets of the solar system and for the numerous giant planets now known to orbit other stars. moreover jupiter's diverse gallo land satellites. Three of which are believed to harbour internal oceans are central to understanding the habitability. Vic- world's understanding the jovian system and unraveling its history from its origin to the possible emergence of habitable environments will give us a better insight into how gas giant planets and their satellites form and evolve in addition new light should be shed on the potential for the emergence of life in jupiter like exo planetary systems for launch and twenty twenty two and arrival at jupiter in two thousand and twenty nine. You know. I'm kinda glad. I came onto the scene late. I get the benefit of looking back on history. The discoveries already made that data analyzed because now now that i'm paying attention now i have to wait. How would much rather prefer to binge the info then a wonder how it must feel for all those women and men working so hard on these missions going back to europa in video games. I recently got into this game. That's been around forever. But once again i'm late to the party. It's a space-based game takes place within the entirety of the milky way galaxy. It's called elite dangerous. It's the thirty four th century. You are space. Pilot a commander of your own vessel or fleet of different ships. This game is massive an entire recreation of the milky way galaxy including our solar system. Now the game doesn't start you out in the sole system our solar system. You have to work your way up and earn a permit to travel here. So when i got the game. That was my whole focus. I had to get my permit. So i can travel to the soul system. It was gonna be my new home system. And i couldn't wait to take my time and explore travel to all the points of interest in our solar system. So i did it. I got my permit. I'm here in our solar system. You know i've been hanging out a lot near jupiter and there happens to be a space station near. Oh and i've been doing some very lucrative mining out in jupiter's halo ring but you know it's been about a month now since i got that permit and i've been there but i still have not gone over to europa again. I don't know why. I mean. I'm so close. I could leave this station and be there in a few minutes. I don't know what i'm waiting for. Maybe i'm afraid. I'll be disappointed. But that's crazy. I mean it's not like it's the real thing. Why am i so weird anyway. So is your rope with the best moon ever created. Well my opinion. Thanks so at least for more wonders are being discovered every day. So who knows what the future will bring to. My attention like that mean that i mentioned earlier. Maybe i'll be looking back at some other mooner planet with europa. Now it's hard to imagine that happening but you never know but one thing i do know is that just like the eclipse of two thousand seventeen. Murray at being talk solar eclipse believable georgia on this beautiful navy ship or having a great time. There's a sense of community out. here is almost not quite bad. Isn't that amazing. You could see without look at that. Everybody gets excited now. That's it cited. Took internal controllable. Isn't it. it's amazing. He perino lightning. Look good all these people. Forget about professional. How do you think about these things radically but know about this theoretically but when you see eye witness it's fantastic eligible. These people gathered around with this is the effect nature can have on we humans when we pay even little attention to it and when i gaze into the wonders of the night sky i'm filled with appreciation and thankfulness that they are there and i feel loved. I'd like to close with one of my favorite images from the from the history of space exploration. It's an image carved by none other than galileo galilei some four hundred years ago. Galileo turned his telescope to the night sky and carefully charted jupiter and he noticed these four tiny little specks of light around uber of course in the early days of his charting these little points of light he initially thought that they were stars and so but he soon realized that these stars were moving and night he charted them and determined that in fact those four little dots were not stars they were. They were moons of jupiter. Jupiter had moons then it must be similar to the earth because of course earth had been up until that point the only world that's had moon and so if things were going around jupiter than that went against that aristo talion you of the birth being center around which everything else revolved decades. That would follow. Gal we would come to learn and appreciate that. The laws of physics apply not just here on earth but also to these worlds and wonders beyond the earth and in the decades and centuries after that with the advent of spectroscopy and new techniques for studying stars and planets. We would come to appreciate that. The principles of chemistry apply not just here on earth but also on worlds and wanders beyond the earth and then with the advent of our robotic exploration of the solar system and our investigation of world's like mars and mercury and venus. We come to appreciate that. The principles of geology apply not just here on earth but also to these worlds wanders beyond her but when it comes to this bizarre when it comes to the phenomenon of life when it comes to the science of biology. We have yet to make that me. We don't yet know whether or not biology works on worlds wonders beyond earth. We have every reason to believe that it should our study of life on earth. Leads us to life is likely everywhere. Where the conditions are right. We'll have yet to do that. Experiment and part of what excites me about the time in which we live part of what excites me about the next few decades is that for the first time in the history of humanity we have the tools and technology to answer this age old question on whether or not we are in fact malone in the and so i hope that some four hundred years from now are descendants. We'll be able to look back at this time. Much the same way that we can look back at the at the revolution that galileo's work began are descendant some four hundred years from now we'll be able to look back at this time in the history of human exploration and scientific discovery. Not just this time this place. Jpl premier place in helping to achieve exploration and the science. The needs to be done to to advance these kind of discoveries. I hope our descendants will be able to look back at this time and this place and say it was then it was there. It was through the perseverance and the exploration that the discoveries were made abroad the universe. Thank you very much once again. Kevin hand astrobiologists and planetary scientist in two thousand fourteen and before that coverage from nbc news. I hope listening to this has inspired you to check out these marbles and more detail up. Do you see what i see. Do you agree. I'd love to know my email is studio at sonic embassy dot com and you can also find the sonic embassy on twitter facebook and instagram. Some great resources other than your favorite search engine are nine. Planets dot org. Europa dot nasa dot gov solar system dot nasa dot gov j w dot org and si- dot s. a. Dot i t slash juice. Our website is sonic embassy dot com. If you enjoyed this episode the best way to show it is to tell others about it and if you hated it and you're still listening at this. Well you know what the best way to really stick it to me to tell others about how much you hate it like guys you gotta check out. This horrible podcast. Here listen to it that really get me. You should do that if you have an idea that you think would make a great episode by all means let me know. Thank you so much for listening. I love you and i hope you'll listen more soon. Based sonic in.
Red meat might not be bad, deflecting asteroids, politics making us sick, growing human brains in the lab, evolution and orgasms and animals in the midnight sun.
"Hi Guys it's me tie pool and I'm back and I have way more questions things like water animals saying to other why spacesuit so does what's the science behind this season. I'm willing to go where no seventh-grader has ever gone before to find you. The answers answers rest your eyes. Prepare your ears for all new episodes of tie. Hi asks why this is a CBC podcast modest. I bet he ate all human. Menino shared inheritance cranks hi hi. I'm Bob McDonald on this week. Show it's not armageddon but it might be a way to avoid one. A NASA mission explores how to deflect to killer asteroid. We're not looking to blow the asteroid up instead. We're going to give it a little nudge which would change its future path and is today's polarized politics making people sick tens and tens of millions of Americans see politics as exacting a serious toll on the social emotional psychological and even physical physical health. Also scientists are growing tiny human brains in the lab. What if they start to think plus what rabbits can teach us about the evolution of the Orgasm Gazza and what we don't know about the health risks of red meat all this and more today on perks and quirks. It was just a little earlier this year that Health Canada introduced the brand new Canada food guide instead of meat. We're now seeing this protein category and we're seeing a huge emphasis on eating plant based foods now. If you look at this protein category in the new food guide you can see chicken. Tofu fish leg ooms and way up in the corner. You see a tiny bit of red meat now that shouldn't come as a surprise given all the warnings we've been in hearing over the years about the dangers of red and processed meats breaking news linking meat and cancer the World Health Organization raise. The risk of developing in cardiovascular disease and cancer can as occasional steak but red meat being your main source of protein turns out we may not. I don't know what we thought we knew about the risks of red and processed meats. What some are saying is the most comprehensive review of the evidence to date is challenging these longstanding health warnings Dr Bradley Johnston and Associate Professor of Community Health and Epidemiology Adele House a university in Halifax led the Review Dr Johnston welcomed Quirks and quarks. Thank you for having me now. Scientists have been saying for years that read and process meats are a risk to our house so based on your studies ladies. how worried should we be. We've looked at what the risk reduction is for cancer heart disease diabetes among those who consume consume three fewer servings of red or processed meat per week and we did find a very small risk reduction however the certainty or quality of evidence to support that is low to very low okay so just very very small risk How small is the risk yes so we've characterized it. As very small in your son is did you find any difference between red meat and processed meat. We did process meat does carry a slightly higher risk for cancer heart disease and diabetes but the difference is trivial so when you look at the studies that say a red and processed meat aren't good for our health. What do you see. Is the biggest problem with those studies well. The majority of studies are based on observational data which which we know is somewhat problematic. observational data inevitably suffers from a risk of confounding even after researchers adjust just the data so so what do I mean by confounding. I mean there's other risk factors that track with people who consume higher amounts of red meat that may be attributable to the increased risk for cancer or heart disease so these other risk factors are alcohol smoking. Perhaps APPs less exercise. Perhaps lower socioeconomic status so all of these things tend to track together and so it's hard to actually separate out what they be most associated with the observed risk reductions that we're seeing but you say you have a problem that these are observational studies. What what do you mean by that. These types of studies generally observed people over time for risk factors and health outcomes sometimes for up to thirty or forty years now these are not experimental studies where risk factors are controlled and randomized equally between the the intervention group and the Control Group and then ultimately what researchers do is. We then looked to see if the risk factors like meat consumption assumption are associated with a health outcome like cancer but at the same time though there have been what scientists call randomized control real trials don't those studies hold up well indeed and one of our systematic reviews was on exactly that on randomized control trials we found twelve the whole that followed about fifty four thousand individuals and interestingly even the evidence base for the randomized trials is low quality are low certainty there was a number of factors that played into why we rated the quality of evidences low for randomized trials but it included lewd things like lack of blinding of participants and there was generally a very small gradient in red meat consumption between those at a lower or amount and a higher amount of red meat and the gradient or the difference between the two groups was about one point four servings per week. Perhaps so we should define what you mean by risk here. Are you talking about. Relative risks like whether or not you you eat meat or not or how much you eat. Are you talking about the risk period yeah. That's a that's an important question so one of the things that we did that. Also I think has merit that others have not done as we focused based on something called the absolute risk reduction now often people present their data as a relative risk reduction. What's the difference so imagine if you will old that the population risk for certain types of cancer is two percent in people that you follow over lifetime and then you look at the offer data and you find that in those that eat. Let's say no meet the risk drops to one percent well from a relative perspective. If that's a fifty percent relative risk reduction it sounds very compelling from an absolute perspective however the risk is a one percent difference and so if you present data to either clinicians or to patients or members of the public using relative numbers versus absolute absolute numbers people can get very different impression so we've really focused on the absolute risk reductions and we believe that if people have that information they can make better decisions for themselves so if you hear fifty percent reduction. You've got to ask fifty percent of what exactly yes okay now as you know there's been considerable. Criticism of your study scientists from Harvard University say you cherry-picked data in the advice. You're giving his irresponsible and unethical. How do you respond to that first of all. I think this is what science is about its debate and so we're happy that there's now more debate on this topic. We we did not cherry pick any data. We did systematic reviews of the literature. We did however ignore what we would call mechanistic studies which are are typically done in a laboratory in rats for example so we did focus on prospective observational studies cohort studies in particular her and randomized trials okay. So where does this leave the public. I mean we've been hearing for years at red meat's bad for us. You're telling it's not now. These critics say we shouldn't trust your results. What are we supposed to do with all this information well. It's the philosophy of individual decision-making in making if you arm rational people with the risk reductions and they understand that it's very small if it exists at all and that the certainty of evidence is low. It's a value in preference sensitive decision. They can make their own decisions Dr Johnston. Thank you very much for your time. Yes thank you for your time. I appreciate it Dr Bradley. Johnston is an associate professor of epidemiology at Dalhousie University now we we should note these studies did not look at the environmental or animal welfare impacts of eating red meat which of course is another issue entirely last. July twenty fifth. I'm not sure if you remember it. It was a Thursday day. Something momentous almost happened an asteroid the size of a Canadian football field whizzed by the Earth that asteroid passed within seventy seven thousand kilometers of the Earth and if that asteroid hit the earth overpopulated region there would have been regional total devastation for that area for many tens of kilometers now something like that would be a very unpleasant surprise and it's entirely possible that one of these days days we might find an asteroid aimed at US determined to do to us what got done to the dinosaurs but the dinosaurs didn't have space agencies sees and our space agencies have a plan just the other week NASA and the European Space Agency announced. They'll be collaborating on a couple of missions and to test ways to intercept and earthbound asteroid. Dr Nancy Xiaobo is coordination lead for the First Mission Nasice Double Asteroid Redirection test or Dart for short. That's set to launch in the summer of twenty twenty one doctor chevaux welcome to the program. Thanks for having me now before we get to to the dark mission to test this plan. What's the basic premise of it. I mean should we do what they did in Armageddon Bruce Willis and nuke the whole thing well. I'm glad you asked actually because our premises a fundamentally different. Our plan is definitely deflection not disruption so we're not looking to blow the asteroid up instead. We're going to give it a little nudge which would change its future path. So how are you planning to do that well. It's pretty straightforward. Actually we'RE GONNA crasher Asher spacecraft into it so that's what we're going to do to make it sound a little bit more technical kinda called kinetic impact technology but basically we're going to launch a spacecraft and we're targeting a small asteroid. That's not on a path to hit. The Earth so this is a is a really league good candidate for this test. It's really going to be the first test of. Could we deflect an asteroid if we needed to and so you don't want to just try that out when you need it you wanna try it out ahead of time and that's what this mission is doing so if you're really doing this also it wouldn't be like Armageddon where you would do it at the last minute and save the world instead. This is something thing that you would WanNa do decades advanced ten twenty thirty years in advance because you'd make small nudge and then it would add up over time and then it would save the Earth okay okay so you're doing this sort of US address rehearsal on an asteroid. That's really out there that you're gonNA. Try to move but it's not actually heading towards the earth. What's the asteroid that you're choosing to hit so the asteroid that were choosing to hit is a part of the DIMOS ASTEROID SYSTEM. It's a binary asteroid system double asteroid system hence the name of the Mission Dart Double Asteroid Redirection test and this binary asteroid system is really a great target to do this first test for a number of reasons so the system system has a larger asteroid seven hundred eighty meters and then a smaller asteroid one hundred and sixty meters that goes around the larger asteroid roughly once every twelve hours and so the spacecraft's going to crash into that smaller asteroid and we're going to change the path around the larger asteroid so used to be roughly twelve hours and we're going to make that about ten minutes shorter so change it by about one percent. Take me through the the spacecraft itself. How how big is it in order to change the course of the asteroid path well. The space craft is roughly two meter cube size. It's got some really large solar rays that roll out in space actually and so and then it's about nineteen meters from tip to tip of those solar rays but what really gets you to be able to give enough impulsive energy to deflect the asteroid is that you're gonna be going really fast so we're going six point six kilometers per second. That's roughly twenty four thousand kilometers per hour and I think I should mention to you. What really makes this. A great target is the fact that it's this binary asteroid system because you might wonder well. You'RE GONNA crash this space craft in such a high speed. It's going to be totally destroyed and you're right. So how are you going to measure how effective this deflection was and we're. GonNa actually use telescopes here on the earth to look at that binary system to do that measurement okay okay but before we get to that the spacecraft itself it's just GonNa Slam right into it and I mean. How will you know at work. If if it's gone yeah well that's where the earth-based telescopes come in but to go back to the spacecraft has one camera on it and that camera we'll take a bunch of images as it gets close us to the asteroid you can imagine it getting closer and closer and closer until there's no more images streaming back. We'll be streaming those back to Earth nearly real time taking one image per second but that camera actually has the second purpose to actually more the more important purpose of it and that camera has to figure out hit the smaller asteroid not the larger asteroid trade which are about a kilometre apart from each other and this is done autonomously onboard the spacecraft so you won't be able to see those two asteroids in this binary asteroid system and separate them until the last hour of the mission so the spacecraft has to be able to do that itself. So what are you going to see all the way in as it's heading towards the straight so from the camera will be able to get really close views of the actual impact site because that's what that cameras going to be looking at when it comes in but Dr Actually has accused sat with it too. It's called Leah Q. The Light Italian cubes for imaging of Asteroids and it's contributed by the Italian Space Agency riding along on the NASA dark mission and about five days ahead of time the DART spacecraft will kick this little cubes out off and kick it far enough away that it doesn't hit the asteroid but it will be able to take some pictures of the actual impact when it happens because you have to asteroids here going around each other in space. How does that enable will you to track what happened with the telescopes on Earth from Earth telescopes. They look like a single point of light. You can't actually make out the fact that it's two asteroids but what you can can make out is that the brightness of that point of light changes roughly on this twelve hour period and that's because the smaller asteroid passes in front of or behind the larger asteroid and as it does this it changes the brightness so it's like a little mini clock out there that you can look with your telescopes and you can see very accurately what that period is and it's actually eleven hours and fifty two minutes right now and so after the DART spacecraft crashes into the smaller one. We'll look at telescopes see what that period is and we don't know what the exact the answer is going to be. Which is why we're doing this test but the the models suggests. It's going to be something a change of about ten minutes while we keep having these asteroids showing up almost by surprise the one just win by the earth. We only heard about it a couple of days before what's being done to try to monitor these things that are out there well. There's a lot that's being done. I'm using Earth based assets. We've got telescopes that are tracking these these objects but yeah there's we believe that of something about the size of Dart's target this one hundred and sixty meters sort of object. We think that we are only actively tracking about a third of that population right now in the near Earth object space so we think that there's about two thirds of those asteroid population that are still waiting to be discovered. and one of the good ways to do that is to put something into space pity that a lot of the recommendations have been to do a space space telescope to search for near. Earth Asteroids and I think that it's getting closer to show thank get very much for your time. Thank you for having me Dr Nancy Xiaobo's Coordination Lead for Nastase Double Asteroid Redirection test. She's also a planetary scientist pissed at Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel Maryland. Will they lost the election now. They want to steal this. Would this president of the United States stooping to a level that is beneath the dignity the constitution what maxine waters to saying that the president should be put in solitary likewise. China just started investigation into the by. It's no surprise. Politics can get ugly. These days that seems particularly true south of the border but before we get on our high horse politics can get ugly here to can you say definitively that you haven't worn black faced since two thousand one P. leader what he would say quebecers and Canadians who are against politicians wearing religious symbols cancel it but what do you mean by sheer holds jewel. US Canadian citizenship some around the world in modern democracies politics seems to be getting more divisive polarized and antagonistic add social media trolls polluting your feeds feeds or that uncle spouting political nonsense and determined to ruin Thanksgiving dinner and life can get very ugly how ugly maybe ugly enough to significantly impact our wellbeing. Maybe politics can get ugly enough to make us actually sick. That's the conclusion inclusion of a recent study from the US about the personal cost of engaging in politics. Dr Kevin Smith is lead author on that study. He's a professor and chair of the the Department of Political Science at the University of Nebraska Lincoln Dr Smith. Welcome to our program. Thanks for having me on now. Why did you want to look into the toll. All that politics can have on the health of citizens well. I think some of the clips that you just played a little while ago. Give some sense of where we were coming from. I mean everybody the is heard these anecdotal stories about you know people being unable to get along with each other across the Thanksgiving table and friendships being ruined and people being mad at each other and that kind of got us to thinking you know what is the full range of social psychological emotional uneven health costs that people people are perceiving from politics well what was actually going on in US politics when you did the study well this survey was taken in March two thousand seventeen so that was immediately in wake of a pretty divisive twenty sixteen presidential election where President Trump and Hillary Clinton faced off so you know one of the things that has to be considered with our study is whether we captured a particular moment in time when nerves was still feeling a little roar after a pretty tough election or whether this is something more chronic. It's just a sign of the political times that we live and we'll walk me through your study. How did you do it. We started out by looking at the diagnostic batteries that alcoholics anonymous and gamblers anonymous us and these are sort of like self diagnostic surveys that you can take to to figure out whether alcohol gambling is causing a problem in your life and we essentially just substituted alcohol and gambling of politics and build build our questions around that and ended up with thirty two items that we felt pretty good about and surveyed a pretty big sample eight hundred adults adults and you know got some pretty eye popping results well eight hundred adults now who were they were they from across the country and political spectrum. Yup We assigned YouGov to do the survey forest and we asked for a fairly large sample that was representative of American adults so so what were some of your eye popping results well. We got everything from about forty. percent of our sample indicated that politics had caused them to be stressed. I wish I guess isn't too surprising given the particular political environment that we live in but we also some of our results suggested that roughly one in five Americans is losing sleep because of politics roughly one in four Americans have been led to hate somebody else because of politics one in five Americans is reporting that a friendship that they value has been damaged because of politics and ask them pull about one of twenty any indicated that that even considered suicide because of politics holy smokes or through your mind when you saw those results I need to be careful in saying ours is not a diagnostic study. We're talking about people's perceptions of what's happening to them not making any clinical diagnosis of any underlying underlying pathologies but if our numbers are even halfway accurate. I mean there's tens and tens of millions of Americans who see politics is exacting a serious this toll on their social emotional psychological and even physical health and I did find that shocking among the people who were affected those who you're losing sleep losing friends developing or hatreds or whatever where did they fall on the political spectrum. It was clearly the case in our sample that people on the political left were more likely to report experiencing these negative effects of politics now just hypothetically yeah. What do you think would have happened. Had the election gone the other way in Clinton one. Isn't that a fascinating question that something that we're really interested in our cells because as far as we can tell there is no other study that has had this kind of like comprehensive battery on the negative effects of politics on on people's lives so in effect. This is the baseline and we don't have anything else to compare it to right now. So you know the question is uh have we just captured a particular point in a particular politically era when nerves were pretty raw or are we sort of like tapping into something that's more generalized unrealizable and that politics is so divisive. When the political right has empowered the political left experiences these costs and when the political left takes power the political right will experience these costs the only honest answer. The question is we just don't know what kind of impact could these types of stresses sleepless nights have on people's health but I don't think you have to be a medical doctor to sort of like reasonably speculate that if you are self reporting that you're chronically stressed. You're losing sleep in your fatigue that that's probably not going to have very salutory effects on your health. So is this the kind of price we pay for democracy. Having this new stress in our life typically we think of political interest and political engagement and his acidic good this is the stuff that makes democracy work but at least in the current political environment our survey seems to suggest that the potentially is a very real cost to that interest engagement on the other hand the cost here are sleepless nights and stress but you know you look at what's going on in other parts of the world. I mean we don't have troops in the streets and protests and violence and things that are happening in places like Hong Kong I mean shouldn't we just get over ourselves. Also let's get on with it. Here could be worse. I think that's a legitimate point razor mean a we just caudal. Were just a little bit more fragile and get a little bit too stressed out given the fact that we're not exploring any of those. You know really seriously negative social effects yeah. I'm not sure about that. Well your study was focused on the United States and the current administration but we're in the middle of a federal election here in Canada. We have divides here as well. How much could your findings apply to countries outside of the US well we really don't know but I think it would be a reasonable suggestion that with some of the things that's going on in Canada right now we might see similar sorts of numbers if you look at the UK with what's going on in Brexit we might see similar numbers and one of the things that we're really hoping is that people will in effect swipe our survey and ask it in different places at different times so we can sort of like try to get a handle on those comparative? Tiv- facts Dr Smith. Thank you very much for your time. Thanks for having me Bob. Dr Kevin Smith is a professor of political science at the University of Nebraska Lincoln now speaking of politics next week on quirks and quarks we'll be delving into the political realm with a pre-election science and environmental policy debate. We've we've invited representatives of the national parties to come on the program to discuss critical issues like science funding environmental protection and more and we'd like like to hear from you what science and environmental issues you'd like to hear disgust so we can put them to the politicians you can contact us on twitter or facebook at CBC quirks works or email us at quirks at CBC DOT CA. Ooh that sounds very science fiction Frankenstein like but they look like miniature brains just going to let that sink in a little miniature brains what we're actually talking about. Here is brain organizes. AIDS and they're one of the most exciting tools for brain science has come along in recent years a bring your guides three dimensional structure created from crony stem cells that mimics the development of the brain one makes Org annoyed similar to human breys is stare capacity to self organize what they are is. They're structures at the cells make all by themselves with a little bit of coaxing from the scientists but they look like miniature brains okay okay. We'll admit this sounds like a horror movie but this is really a Frankenstein experiment to make tiny brains in jars. Okay on second thought. That's exactly exactly what it is except for the Frankenstein part because there's a really good reason to do this. The Human Brain is the most complex organ in our body. It's billions of carefully organized and interconnected cells studying how such a complex machine works or how it's not working in the case of brain disease is is a titanic challenge. Brain organize provide us an opportunity to study how the human brain develops and functions and provide us key insights into neurological Michael Disorders that we simply could not study before we're talking about complex neurological conditions like multiple Sclerosis Alzheimer's schizophrenia or autism but there's no question that reasonable observers might find statements like this a little alarming fewer ethical. I want to create ate the entire human brain vitro and entire human brain in vitro a brain in a jar but what if these brains were to you start to function to wake up to experience distress fear or pain Canadian bioethicist Kalina cazenove if we really really are capable of producing something seemingly through the human brain will on kind of ethical warps. I think that will distinguish this research assist from other areas of biomedical inquiring. We'll get to the messy ethical issues surrounding the technology and a bit but for now let's go to Dr Paul Altea Sar a professor in the Department of Genetics and Genome Sciences at the Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in Cleveland Ohio to find out more more about what a brain organized really is and what we can learn from them. Dr Tesol welcome to the program. Thanks for having me Bob now. What are some of the similarities listen differences between a brain organized a real human brain well. We're GONNA always are these self organized three dimensional tissue like structures that we can generate from stem cells else in the laboratory and so the big difference of course is the size right so these brain organizes aids are millimeter inside so you know maybe somewhere between a sesame we see an appleseed and these are you know three dimensional little floating white spheres containing the core components that are found within the human brain. Can you some of the basic structures but are very far from containing all of the cellular complexity and maturation that exists in the human brain so how close star these brain organizes these tiny little grains of rice the size pieces of brain to mimicking how real human tissues actually work and function. I mean I think the exciting part is these organized really unlock a window into the earliest stages of human brain development that were previously inaccessible and are teaching teaching us how the brain is initially formed and giving us some insights into how its function but even the most advanced current brain organized systems tmz are quite rudimentary and functionally incompetent and I think there's a rapid pace of advancement in generating these organize and the goal obviously earliest to allow us to better reflect human brain functions and maturations but why is there so much excitement about these brain organizes now the remarkable thing about brain organiz is that you know we can generate them from stem cells from any individual from you from me and we can generate them from patients with certain logical disorders and this allows us with this technology to sort of go back in time and then press play and watch the disease process unfold again in the laboratory and I think equally exciting is that we can use these organized from patients to test new potential therapeutic approaches that may prevent or reverse the neurological dysfunction action. That's astounding so you're saying that you could take cells from me. Create this sort of a parallel little piece of my brain in in a petri dish and test astrud on it to see if they'd work absolutely and that's what a number of laboratories including my own are are beginning to use this organized technology for well. Tell me about what you are doing with Brain Organiz in your lab right now we've really built upon the pioneering work of many other labs and we've now added the third major cell type in the brain rain this so-called Alexander sites to the organized system and so our work really now provides a much more accurate representation of human brain development and as it relates to these as all get into sites these are a specialized cell type in the brain that function to create this protective and insulating coating called mile in around nerve cells and loss of mile an lose to neurological dysfunction patient disability in a variety of human or logical disorders and most prominently in the Disease Multiple Sclerosis so my laboratory has Israeli published a number of very pioneering studies demonstrating the discovery of early stage therapeutics capable of stimulating the regeneration of new mylan eating Alexander Sites. It's an also very excitingly reversing process in mice with multiple sclerosis like disease and so the major question is whether these therapeutics have the ability to actually stimulate the generation of new functional Human Mylan and so our new organized system really afforded us the opportunity to test this directly and we found these therapeutics were equally capable to stimulate the regeneration of human violating cells in these brain organize and and the goal now is to test this in the clinic to understand if we can actually replace Mile and restore function to patients with Multiple Sclerosis when you hear mini brain. Does that make you cringe a little bit. Yes thank you very much for your time. My Pleasure Bob Thank you Dr Paul t SARS professor in the Department of Genetics Neten Genome Sciences at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in Cleveland Ohio. This kind of work illustrates the hope that brain organized organized research is bringing to researchers and patients alike and as Dr Tea CR said these tiny chunks of tissue are very far from a real brain one scientist however is trying to change that fewer ethical. I want to create the entire human brain vitro. You heard that voice earlier that was Dr Leon Mewa tree the director of the stem cell program at the University of California San Diego in his lab. There are hundreds of Oregon Lloyd mini brains Dr Milwaukee Tree is a neuroscientist known for being bold and creative in his work. He sent brain organize into space to learn how microgravity affects the brain and created neanderthal brain organized better understand human evolution but what what really set the cat among the pigeons in this field was a paper he published in August that reported on the detection of brain waves in his brain org annoyed. We can grow these organized a level where the networks become highly complex and decent size which is a similar to what we see the human developing Cortex so this is what we call brainwaves. His announcement led to a flood of concerns in the science and bioethics community. The brain organizes had brainwaves. Does that mean they were doing something thinking. Could a more complex organized eventually experienced sensation. Asian like pain even become conscious for people like Canadian bioethicists. Dr Kalina common over these are vital questions was to consider. I think there is a key shoot at by witnesses have to address because it is suggestive of the presence of some human qualities in the organized nights and if this is the case we will have to think of how appropriate ethical standards that will be applied to this line of research. Dr Mewa Tree joins me now to unpack the findings of his latest paper address some of the ethical questions raised and what all this means for the the field going forward Dr Milwaukee Welcome to cork some quirks. Thank you for having me so walk me through how you discovered that brainwaves were present present in the brain organizes that you grew inside your lab sure let me step back and let the people note that these technology bring organize exists since two thousand eleven but one thing that was missing. The entire field is to record the ladder co activity that becomes sophisticated over time in for many years. We thought that this would be impossible because disorganized growing outside the human body so my group took the time to really optimize is the formula. This is the juice where these brain organize our grown bio reactor in for mutation led to a formula or a recipe recipe where disorganized could be maintained for several years ending the beginning is what we would expect that is not much activity going on we see. Ren Don't fire in here and there but as they mature and grow older these activity becomes more and more in we start to see some kind of synchronization and so these are a Niro's for me more functional synapses over time and then they reach a level where synapses are so much that everything thing becomes synchronized. That's when you start detecting what we call an authority brainwave well. What exactly are these brainwaves that you're detecting. What kind of activity do they reflect going on. Among the brain organizes these brainwaves are a result of micro secretaries that the bringer forming forming and they are connected or associated with human behavior and computational power of the human brain so what we see in these bring. Oregon is the beginning of something that will lead to the sophisticated networks. That's why this is so important. How similar can you make them to an actual human brain both structurally and functionally well theoretical. I want to create the entire human brain vitro so that's the goal of my lab to start building a different pieces of the brain for example. We have a CORTEX now. We're working on a talent and we are working on I and gene. We're starting plugging this structure together using bio materials so once we put them together there is a tendency for the connections between these different different regions to connect inform secretaries' between them as we do that what we expect it to happen is moderation of disorganized to increase into become. I'm closer to the adult brain so right now. We are something similar to a newborn baby brain but perhaps in the next five years we can get brainwaves. Wave that are a little bit more mature so if you do that if you managed to assemble all these pieces into a human brain in in the laboratory. Tori does that mean that your your brain organizes or whatever it is you created could become well sort of conscious. You know that's a very hard question because we scientist we are debating what is consciousness. We don't agree on what it is and even self aware. How do we know oh. That's something is self aware if it cannot communicate with you but let me step back in. Let's change consciousness for sophisticated networks works that are similar to the Delta Brain. I think we can get that stage and then we can start to design experiments that my show if they have any any sign of consciousness or self-aware once we agree on that could your brain organizes develop capabilities to feel things is like pain yeah so that's a great question and I think the answer is yes. we already started adding things information to these organize for example. We we have a collaborator. Working on me is or or or developing human retinas from the stem cells and our collaboration is showing that you can actually make these mini writing interact with the human cortex also created by stem cells so then once we have those connections actions we can visually stimulate the retina and understand the how the CORTEX react so if we can do that with the retina with the I we probably could do the same thing we've paying neurons or paying sensory information so you can see that we are getting closer and closer to a more grays on well. Yeah I mean if you do develop something that is sensing pain and may have consciousness How do you deal with all the ethical issues that surround that I'm not to worry about that because we have precedent in animal animal models we also work with human subjects. I mean all of them have consciousness and they are self aware so what we do is we create regulations so that's when we team up with the ethicist to really decide how to use these material how to best treat these brain organize should we just discard them or should we terminate them in a more humanized fashion and how many should we grow for each experiment so these are all questions that we apply to human or animal those and as we've any other technology in the beginning is definitely a grey zone and and people are uncomfortable so we are the pioneers in this field but I think that as the technology start to proving helpful if we start finding treatments for Autism Schizophrenia Frisia bipolar depression I think this will we agreed that this is an eye stew and then we put aside. I mean all the regulations to work with these two. Yes its potential as a tool is tremendous but you think it will come to a point where you have to say okay. We're only going to let this evolves so far and then stop. We won't let let it grow into a full human brain. Yeah that's definitely a possibility in when we get at that stage who have decided how far is too far and we reassess the potential of the technology and and potential consequences of the technolog- take take me through what your research is looking at with Brain Organiz right now we have several research branches in my my lab there are several people that works with meet at are really interest on disease modeling so they're creating brain organize for an individual IOS. We've neurological conditions such as autism and epilepsy and the goal is to find out how the brain is ms wired and ways to fix exit so we're trying to learn how different brain regions effects autism so you can tailor treatments to each individual for example we anticipated hit that maybe in the future someone with autism we'll donate their cells to a lab and the lab recreate their own mini brains and we we we studied these mini brains and we can pinpoint exactly what's going wrong and offer opportunities to help. Maybe it's a language problem may be seizures and and and we can specifically treat each symptoms by using this technology. I understand you have a personal interest in autism as well that is true. Yeah I have a kid with severe autism and he definitely struggles in life and one of my goals is to help kids like him. So what guidelines headlines. Do you think should be in place to make sure that organized research will be conducted in an ethical manner. I think the first thing we need to do is to see if we can actually get at that stage. If we have any evidence that these organize our self-aware or if the few paying was we have this kind of evidence I think then that's the time to start discussing ruse of for the research before that I think is premature. In my actually damage the research I think we should explore explore now in in tried to design experiments to prove either way if we do actually get to that level then I think is the time to pause in think about the consequences in discuss among everybody in this feud how far is too far and where is the limit Dr Doctor Moore Tree. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you it was a pleasure. Dr Alison New Autry is the director of the stem cell program at the University of California a San Diego. Let's talk about orgasms. I mean in a scientific kind of way. The female orgasm has long been a subject of fascination for scientists. It's like the male orgasm in that it can be the pleasurable climax to sex yes but a key difference from an evolutionary perspective is that in humans the female orgasm has no connection to reproduction in men the orgasm signals. The release of the sex sells the sperm. That's not the case in women who ovulate according to the calendar not in response instant pleasure well. This led scientists to wonder why the female orgasm even exists to find an answer Dr Guenter Wagner decided to to study a creature that knows a thing or two about both sex and reproduction the rabbit. Dr Wagner is the Alison Richard Professor of ecology and evolutionary legionary biology at Yale University. I welcomed quirks and quirks because often so what is your hypothesis for why women have organisms our hypothesis is that fema logos actually evolved from a situation where in the in animals copulation nation into use ovation so for instance drivers for example corporations necessary to cause a relation so rabbits don't overlaid on a regular schedule schedule like women do and stay need additional stimulation from copulation really so. You're saying that that rabbits only release an egg during the actual meeting. Yep actually about an hour later. After copulation to overlap happens and rabbits are not unique in that respect cats is the same or ferrets and other animals in particular. That's true for animals that tend to be living alone so they want to make sure that when they find a partner to mates that it actually works so how did you use the rabbits to understand how this process were so the idea to test whether female orgasm and as corporations used ablation is to same prosise assists in evolutionary sense by tasting these two processes we know that in women and also in man certain pharmaceutical agents make more difficult and most well known of these substances fluoxetine which is also known as PROZAC PROZAC so all reasoning was that if gift prospect rabbits it should also influence an ablation process. Do rabbits have actual orgasms Adams during their meeting process well what else is subjective experience and as such cannot objectively no with an an animal is an Orca Samoa. Not Alwa- experiment aimed at finding ultimate in Chicago some in corporations used relation to same brain mechanisms they can they are active so how then did you go about studying the orgasms and ovulation in rabbits so we took two groups of rabbits female rabbit's one group was given PROZAC for two weeks and the other one just a sugar water. If you want and then half the two weeks be made them to a male rabbit and we did find a significant reduction in the number of eggs released in the animals that received product okay so the drug that affects the brain was influencing their release of eggs during copulation so let's just tell you that you know supports puts the notion that this brain mechanisms that are activated in female. Orgasm Lemon and in operation used ovation and rabbits is likely to to be the same part of the brain. That's response to the presence absence of pros. So why then do you think in humans. The females lost this connection between orgasms and copulation and releasing of as well one plausible scenario is that we know that animal statistis copulation into relation are mostly animals did leave alone need to shoot. It's convicting occurs. It is successful so there is a correlation with the loss of this mechanism and the evolution of sociality so it's been a insists acquired style of leaving delivered together and therefore corporation partner spare around all the time. I think there was a premium to reduce. Let us fatality in order to avoid too fast population growth okay well if the orgasm then is not serving this evolutionary Schnur purpose then why do some women still have orgasms well That is the next big question that we would like to answer. It's possible it's a female orgasm. Actually has a function that we are just not aware of. Maybe it has something to do is stress management went with immune competence and so on and other possibilities that maybe it's genetically really hard to get rid of female awesome because it is logically genetically linked to male or Guzman of course meal Gus Miss Necessary for reproduction but at that point we don't have experimental evidence to discriminate between district disabilities Rodney. Thank you very much for your time. My pleasure thank you for having me. Dr Guenter Wagner is the Alison Richard Professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at Yale University blinded by in West and with that it's time for another quirks and quarks question. My my name is genevieve. Willis and I'm calling from new vic in the Northwest Territories. I recently spent my first spring and summer of Arctic Circle and with twenty four hour daylight eight I noticed birds chirping at all hours of the day and night as most of the birds up here are seasonal visitors. I was wondering how the constant daylight affects birds and other animals animals usually have a d. night's sleep cycle. Thanks for your help and here's the answer hello. My name is Jeff Lane and I'm a wildlife biologist at the University of Saskatchewan Scotch. When I happen to know exactly what your listeners referring to as part of my job I get to spend some of my summer each year in the Yukon and there have been many a night that Swenson's thrush cut me awake all night singing under the hours of midnight. Sun denied activity patterns or what scientists would call Circadian Rhythms. These rhythms are initiated through an internal internal circadian clock which lies in the brains of birds and mammals like us misalignment of the rhythmic signals from the clock and light patterns can be disruptive and this is why people apple suffer from jet lag or in a smaller way after daylight savings so it's a great question as to what happens under twenty four hours of daylight and parts of the far north where there aren't obvious light dark cycles for some northern species such as reindeer and Ptarmigan and Norway they don't actually show behavioral patterns that Aligned and with a typical twenty four hour circadian pattern other species such as Arctic ground squirrels and Alaska and honeybees in Finland have been shown to Exhibit Twenty Four Hour Circadian Cycles also and it's been speculated that they're able to maintain these cycles by training to variations in the quality or intensity of light that does differ throughout the day even though the sun on remains above the horizon there may be costs to this although there isn't a lot of data to suggest that so for example they may be exposed to more nocturnal old versus day active predators but there may also be benefits birdsong is meant to attract mates and if a male produces a call earlier in the day than his competitors he maybe more attractive to a potential mate so it's probably safer to say rather than there being costs that they're just differences in the north to the South Dr Jeff Lane is a wildlife if biologist at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon so if you've got a science question that we can answer email said quirks at CBC DOT CA or send it to us on twitter or facebook all the links are online at CBC dot ca slash quirks and that's that's it for this week's edition of Quirks and quirks if you'd like to get in touch with us just go to the contact. Lincoln our webpage and get to our web page go to CBC DOT CA slash slash quirks where you can subscribe to our podcast listen to our audio archives or read my latest blog you can follow us on twitter and facebook at CBC Quirks Works you can also get us on the CBC. Listen APP. It's free from the APP store or Google play quirks corks is produced by CC Wall Sonia Biting being and Mark Crawley our senior producer. Is Jim Lebanon's. I'm Bob McDonald. Thanks for listening for more C._B._C. podcasts go to C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.
"HOUSTON, we have a podcast welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson, space center episode one, Sixty, eight, expedition one I'm Gary Jordan and I'll be your host today. On this podcast, we bring in the experts, scientists, engineers, astronauts to let you know what's going on in the world of human spaceflight twenty years ago on November second two, thousand, a crew of three space ferrers arrived at the International Space Station with the mission to bring the new orbital complex to life, we call these missions expeditions and the crew was expedition one. The trio was NASA's William Shepherd. Commander of Expedition One and Russian cosmonaut, Sergei, Krikalev, and Yuri Zenko both seasoned veterans of long duration missions aboard the Russian space station. Mir that was an orbit. These three spent a hundred and thirty six days aboard the Space Station and set the course for what would be an unbroken streak of human presence in space. We like to tout. If you're at this point younger than twenty, you've never lived in a world where there haven't been humans in space at any given point in your life. To get to that point where human started inhabiting the Space Station was not an easy thing. So to tell the full story of Expedition One, we have William Shepherd goes by Shep he was a manager of the Space Station Program, a seasoned veteran and space and the commander of Expedition One to the station. We. Talk about what it took to get to expedition one, the mission itself and how the Space Station has grown into what it is today. So here we go expedition one with Bill Shepherd. Enjoy. County. Court. CHEF. Thanks for coming on. Houston we have a podcast today. Appreciate your time. Yeah, happy to be with the all my all my friends at NASA there. And I wanted to start with this. We're taking a snapshot here where we are twenty years past when you first arrived on the International Space Station and set the course for continuous human presence. What are your initial thoughts right off the bat of achieving this milestone? Well I'm kind of amazed that between NASA and hall the International Partners that we frankly that we've got gun Many. Many people at the outset of the international, space station program. decided it was mission impossible and it was never going to happen but The team has proved them wrong. Well, that's perfect. Well, let's take a deep dive then Feel like you're the perfect person to talk to about this, just just diving into exactly that what were those obstacles that made it seem like mission impossible. So let's start with the landscape of of NASA and international partnerships in the early ninety s when we were just kind of getting the International Space. Station program and the thought of what would be the international. Space. Station up and running. Well, the idea for space station is not at all new. certainly even before World War Two people were talking about. Humans traveling in space and what we would do there And I think von Braun had many sketches There Are Walt Disney shows on rockets going to space stations but really got off the ground if you will. both in the US and in the Soviet Union with manned laboratories we had skylab. and. Then the Russians had a number of sal you space stations and then eventually one that they called. Mir Doesn't a Reagan started space station freedom. And this was in the early in the middle of the eighties. And by Nineteen Ninety two. the administration's had changed and The problem was that NASA had spent almost eleven billion dollars on space station freedom. And it had taken Eight years in not one pound of flight hardware was to show for it, and so congress was really upset. With the Space Agency and was getting ready to cancel the program. So really ISS International Space Station Program. Was a big change that that pulled the iron out of the fire and reorganized things and? That's Cata Path that we started on twenty years ago and that's where we are today. Well. Let's talk about some of those original plans you mentioned space station freedom. There are a number of other space stations. That were actually flying at that time Mir included Let's take a dive into the shuttle program and the original plans for shuttle. As a as a vehicle to construct things like space stations. All NASA space shuttle was actually something the NASA promoting even before the end of. The Apollo Missions I think John Young was on the moon talking about. What a great thing, a space shuttle would be an encouraging. the politicians to support it. but one of the purposes of the shuttle was to be able to build large. In or orbit. So besides carrying astronauts space and doing experiments and ev as in robotics and whatnot. One of the main reasons why we needed a space shuttle was so we can build big stuff in orbit and He was kind of in competition with the Russians didn't know what the Russians were GonNa do they eventually built their own? space shuttle and flew one time. But that was the landscape and I think You know to me There was a lot of celebration and ceremony around the retiring the shuttles and the ones that got transported to the museums. But for me, that was really sad. Stories of days because this was the end of. at least United States astronauts. Flying into space and coming back in a vehicle that had wings on it that could land like an airplane I i. still think that's a tremendous capability and we've pretty much given that up. And and think about what it accomplished. You know even even before the International Space Station launched its first element we did have. Cooperation with this space station that you're talking about Mir, the Russian space station where we had. An opportunity to work together with. Russia, doing the shuttle Mir program and not only using the shuttle but also understanding the operations. I. Guess Behind Long Duration Spaceflight on. Mir. If you look back, even President Kennedy in the earliest days of. Our human spaceflight effort talked about. The political and diplomatic benefits of working with the Soviets on space. And Apollo Soyuz in nineteen, seventy five was a result of that and It took us a while after that another two decades to really get. close to the Russian Federation and work together on space station but. I think it's a very healthy thing for NASA for the country to be doing. We'll talk about those years I think around this time you were the international, space? Station Program Manager, you had a lot of oversight into you know this cooperation us and Russia to go from this idea of freedom International Space Station or space station freedom to this cooperative International Space Station, can you talk about some of those years? Well, my original. Assignment from. The national administrator was to be on A. Basically study team that would look at what is the? What what's the executability if you will the freedom program and if if it needed to look like something else what would that be? and. I had I was a member of about ten men team, and we studied that for about a month. And made recommendations. This was all Being driven by directives from the Clinton administration to figure out. What what was Nastase Future with the freedom program and and what were they going to do After the draft this study was over. Then I was the program manager basically handling several changes to what NASA was doing was. We were bringing the Russian Federation him to the International. Space Station Partnership, which is a big deal the partnership had been formed. about six years earlier by international agreements. With the Canadian Space Agency, the European space, agency and the there are other involvements with the. There is some involvement with the Italian aerospace industry. B- that group was already up and running and was initially very opposed to bring yet another partner end because in part. This would diminish everybody's ability for astronauts and research time on space electrical power, and you know all of those things that you've got to do to have a collaborative expedition or environment in orbit. So there was a lot of negativity Among the established partners to bring the Russians in. the Russians themselves. Were very difficult to deal with And that because they are or were bad people, but you have to look at space from a Russian standpoint. They. Launched the first satellite into space. And the first man to fly in space the first woman to fly in space, they did the first facebook they were the first to look at the back side of the moon. And there were quite a number of. Technological I the Russians claim and they To their from their point of view that they looked at the United States US Americans is coming in behind. their successes and trying to take some of the credit for it and I think there's some merit to that I. Mean we certainly. Approach doing space from from different directions. Technically but Russians are very proud. They've got a very strong legacy in the early days of. Humans in space and I. Think Initially, we did not the the Americans in particular. we did not respect that or appreciate that maybe as. As strongly, as we might assume, that was you know getting that getting behind that passed that was a big deal. In addition there several of the things that were happening one was that budget for the. Space Station it was going to be called at that time. was quite. Constrained. The design of freedom had to be changed. For a number of reasons it was too expensive. The assembly of the components had a lot of risk in it that we wanted to take out. We had Russian components that we had to. Integrate With this partnership that we had to manage and we had a complete. Restructuring of the space. Station. Program on the US side altogether, NASA had ridden. Four prime contracts to various companies. In the United States to carry out freedom. And this was in the process of being condensed to a single prime contract. some of the contractors were not going to. Maintain the work content that they had originally won in the previous contract they're unhappy about that. And in addition Space Station program was going to be headquartered at one particular place in the country, and there was a lot of. Arm Wrestling about where and which. Center or entity what's going to be in charge of that and ended up being Houston I was very happy about that because I was living in Houston but. these are some of the dynamics were going on at the time. Very. Respected Japanese, PARTNER WHO In a lot of these discussions of the. Initial Space Station partnership came up to me one day and he said Shop This is nineteen ninety, early nineteen, ninety-three. He said Shep You guys are doing your sixth redesign of the space. Station. You're changing the contract around you chopping pieces of the hardware off you're running short on money and you're. Changing the contract all around and you're moving headquarters to Houston. I don't think you're GONNA make it. And that was that was preseason guy and that was his expert opinion in the middle, of Nineteen ninety-three and so I didn't say anything to him I didn't want to be. Disrespectful but I thought to myself I. Thought you know we've got. A real legacy of of how to do hard things at NASA. They've got a great team working on this and Just stand by we're going to show you that this can get done. Shed there seems to be just Insurmountable odds against actually making this thing work. So how how did you navigate through all of these obstacles? What how did you integrate with the international park partners with Russia to actually make the International Space Station become a thing I don't think it's a simple answer I think a lot of people. Own Parts of that story I I do think that One of things that it was really important was I. stepped down from being a program manager because I. The program manager has over splutter responsibilities to do A lot of the congressional liaison keep the funding for the program headed in the right direction. hand holding for a lot of. Higher, level forums and I wanted to do the more focused on the technical work. So I was like what took on the role as a deputy program manager to do that. But. That said. We started having pretty aggressive exchanges. Groups of people in Moscow talking to our Russian counterparts and having Russians in Houston and I. think that was really the thing that made The International Space Station Program Go. The Russians. Came in. Pan. Certainly. Did things differently than what we did. But but in the end The design and how was implemented. Added a Lotta Capability to the station and I'm probably jumping ahead. We can talk about this later in the podcast. But nobody at the time realized that how important having? multiple countries, multiple launch assets that could. Support the station in orbit and had. Particularly, the the Columbia. Disaster we would not have a space station if the Russians were not able to fly crews and material up to the ISS and I I I don't think we specifically foresaw that in nineteen ninety-three. But the fact that many countries. The Europeans. The Japanese. And the Russians in particular could have an opportunity to launch to the station on their own. That was a big part of our design. So Oh Station has. Even as a program, it had a lot of moving parts it's hard to. Cover it all you know in a short discussion. Well, we can. We can zoom in on on hardware because I think one of the things you mentioned with some of the early years is we were doing a lot of studies on on designing what would be a space station, but never had any hardware to show for it so. During the space station there were that there was that development process of the initial hardware of the international space. Station. I know there's there's components like two. Those Aria was a joint effort How about some of those those early space station, hardware, designs, and processes. But I think you have to back up one step and think about his there a culture, a philosophy that says. not only what you design, but y you design it the way you do, and that was really the most interesting thing to me our. Previous freedom design. was dependent on. Some Hurley Assembly flights were we didn't have a lot of Cooling. Communications Electric Power Other. Capability and gradually the station build out in those utilities if you will. became more robust, but several of the aspects of this support. To keep the station alive. had. If you will allow technical risks that they were gonNA survive. The period before we had redundancy. The Russians on the other hand designed. smaller. Modules there weren't in essence all up vehicles. And when they launched it, it had life support in had environmental control. It had fire suppression detect computers. And radios it had solar-powered had thermal control had docking mechanisms all that stuff so The analogy would be to. Having a house that you're building in the United States or the US side of the partnership. We lay the foundation and we'd get the the studs in. And frame everything out put the roof on and. Months into the construction you might have a place you can roll out a cot. And the the Russian approach was. Cleared the driveway and pull the winnebago up and you know open the door and those are two really different approaches to doing. you know human capable facilities in orbit. And I think there's a lot of merit to their Russian approach frankly. is maybe a bit simpler so. I guess around this time you talked about stepping down from program manager at what point did you start gearing up for training for what would be the first expedition? Nine hundred ninety six the first crew. It was determined by. The program management talking to the space agencies in the various countries. that. At that time this summer of ninety six, the launch was supposed to be nineteen, Ninety, eight somewhere. In everybody was assuming that the training was going to be a year and a half or so maybe a little bit longer and that was historical reference from what it would take the train shuttle crews and what the Russians normally would do for their Soyuz training. So midnight nineteen ninety six, it was decided that naming a crew to go to the station would basically start driving. The. The training folks to get their training mature. And know get started with crew training. So we got named They WANNA was. Believed was sometime in the fall of nineteen, ninety six. And we started our training essentially that winter. And it turned out that due to delays and hardware launch schedules. The crew did not ended up flying until almost the end of two thousand. So, our training flow was About four years. Yeah. Plus a little bit about twice what we had originally intended. Very, tedious If you're training but you don't know when you're GONNA fly, it's somewhat akin to crawling over broken glass once in a while but But we all understood that this was a developmental thing and nothing was going to be perfect and If I can say patients had to be somewhat of a virtue. I did have the pleasure of having Kathy Bolt on this podcast to talk about training and how it's evolved over time, and she did mention training the expedition one crew, and one of the things she mentioned when you talked about being tedious one of the things you mentioned was There was this idea to train you to the system level to train you to know the whole International Space Station inside now, how to switch all the buttons and and how everything worked in that training evolved over time because to a more general. Approach since the space station for the most part could be controlled from the ground. Did you did you find that some of those some of that tedious training was just knowing like every system on the space station inside out. Well I I WANNA commend. Kathy and all the people who worked on expedition one in particular. Did a great job training. But I think the reality that was. Not The easiest critic to train and that. was, true, for a couple of reasons one was. particularly Sergei curricula who was a enter engineer and he was basically our flight engineer on board. Both he and I had been in Italy involved in mirror to and all the nuts and bolts of the US side of the. ISS program. So we knew a lot about the hardware. And so. The other thing was we knew when we flew. That although the the ideal case was the ground could do everything. The reality was that they were not going to be able to. Because Particularly really in our flay. We only had direct communications line of sight. From orbit to the ground, and we had to have a ground station relay. Hall the calm to Houston or Moscow. So this meant that her coverage was not gonna be anything like. What we have now on ISS or what we were used to. On spatial with the tedious relay satellite. So we had periods we were GONNA have periods on it. Sometimes four to six hours long. Where we weren't talking anybody and nobody on the ground could see what was happening on ICS. So with that in mind you got to step back and say, well, am I going to wait for the ground? Tell me what to do when something? Something is up for my going to figure out. What I have to do the interim and Try and you know prevent it from getting worse or fix it make it better. So, we were pretty hard over that. The right way for us to train has the first crew in probably the early crews up there was to know as much as we could about everything because the chances were good then in a big crunch up there. We were going to be on her own. That's that's why we did. Very, very critical thing to to be able to do for sure I wanna take a step back. And Zoom in on the fact that this is the first expedition, which means you are going to be up in space for much longer than some previous previous shuttle missions. So Expedition One was one hundred and thirty six days. Let's take a step back to your shuttle missions and talk about what they were like, and then how that compared to expedition one you have three listed for U. S. T.. S.. twenty-seven forty one and fifty to your experiences on those. Well. They're all different flights. Twenty, seven, forty, one, we're we're pretty short. up and down flights. Twenty seven high inclination permitted defense mission. The idea was to launch. swing the orbit around two fifty, seven degrees inclination fifty, seven degrees. And then as soon as we're ready, put an object out into orbit and check it out and come back home so. It was a great mission but. Almost stay up by the time you are. Really accustomed to where to look to see the ground and what the food was going to be like you were getting ready to land and come home sorta. The same thing on us he has forty one, our big mission there was a planetary probe. built by the Europeans called Ulysses. that was A. Launch. Ulysses was a pretty interesting object at Carry the. Inertial upper stages and went to a trajectory that Senate over the back of Jupiter. And did that to give it an adjustment to its orbital inclination where it would fly. down in the Southern Hemisphere of the. Solar system and fly over the South Pole the. Sun. but again, Short mission up and down in a couple of days. Has. It's fifty to launch day. A laser reflector satellite, but did about a week and a half of materials experiments but that was pretty much it. So in contrast. To, Russian crewmates Sergei in particular at spent a year. In orbit on the Mir was the. The Soviet cosmonaut who launched and came down a year later without a country because in the meantime. The Soviet Union had gone away and the Russian Federation than setup. So in your had experience on the mirror as well. So My Position has a low time flyer was not something that the Russians were particularly happy with. Well then let's talk about expedition one nine. Let's let's Let's zoom in on the training there. I think what's one of the major differences is the vehicle that's GonNa, take you to and from orbit all of your previous flights were on the space shuttle. Now, you're getting ready to learn everything about the Russian Soyuz. So. The Russians. Have had the Soyuz spacecraft since the mid sixties. And they had a legacy of training, quite a number of foreign cosmonauts or astronauts from different countries has guests to ride on the Soyuz. So the mode of their training was that the Americans that showed up to work on. Space Station. Where is it or there was started? On a training floor that Basically. saw them as guest cosmonauts. And we had a big problem with that because we said look we're going to be up there. We're not going to be in contact with the ground all the time limited number of crew and we've got a no. No Way happens when this button doesn't work but maybe Y is something is. Impeding it or what's behind the bandler? What's going on at this thing needs to know or do to make it work, and this is not really a Russian train their cosmonauts. But we said Hey this is a new ballgame and this is the way we wanna do it and. After many many battles with the training staff and. The program managers we we. Made that happen and so You know big thing about training and Russia and for the Soyuz in particular was. All the Russian training. Wasn't Russian. We had lesson plans that were translated to English, and we initially started down the road saying, okay, we can. Sit there and with an interpreter looking at the translated script for the training, we can get what we need to get but. Soon became obvious. So we need to be really proficient in Russian so. Everybody, from the US side that was training for Isis in Russia learned Russian and it had some other benefit and the big one was. Many of the people who were in the training flow as instructors had involvement in the Russian space program that went back. Ten Twenty thirty years there were people there who had worked on sputnik and who had trained Erie Garin, and so these people were walking encyclopedias for. How the Russians did things and I thought you know I could talk to these people with interpreters but I really WANNA. Know what they're thinking about why they're doing something a certain way I have to be able to talk to him in Russian. So that's what we did and it was not an easy part of training but it was necessary. I think in hindsight I think everybody's really glad. That we were able to do that because it gave us a necessary insight into. How this other space entity. Works and thinks. And it's very interesting because all the astronauts I talked to today right before their launches. And I'm talking in the past couple years they always talk about you know Russian training. We're still doing it that a lot of them say it is one of the harder parts about training a lot of them with tech backgrounds able to understand that a little bit easier than maybe the Russian language but still a very valuable part of what it is to be an expedition astronaut even today. One of the things that came out of that before we leave the language issue. It made me think of. How would I approach this? If I was Japanese or if I was an Italian or. The many other countries that want to be involved with helping to crew the station and I'm going you know for somebody who's Who doesn't have English or Russians, the first language it's it's doubly heart and I'm going. There's got to be a way that we can bridge that. With controls and displays and training material diagrams explain if you will what the crew has to deal with in such a way that. The need for complete. Textual understanding and what you're doing is reduced. and. So we created a graphic environment that's used on the ground using training us on displays on the space station. and today is is really part of how station is operated. And it was designed at the time to be. Somewhat universal so people ask me. Once, in a while they say shop well. One Hundred Years from now what do you? What do you think people will remember about the International Space Station I, say, well. If. We're if we're really lucky they will. They will remember having heard the name but not much else about it but I think one thing that will endure is this approach to having multinational crews who have to travel in space and do pretty complex things. This kind of human interface is something that I think we started. I think it's GonNa last for a long time. Sarah Cool I wanna I, WANNA jump over to. Your expedition and talk about the journey there. Because because now we're here twenty years later from from when you were getting ready. To launch. Talk about your experience I guess after training in biking. Or. Preparing for launch. Well I would say it's not too different than what the US and American astronauts do between Houston and the Cape and the shuttle launches. you go down to bike and you're about three weeks before your launch for a practice countdown. And then. About five days before you fly, you show up again you know final checks and vehicle. The castle gets me to the booster rocket that goes out to the PAD. And then the launch countdown starts and. Morning of October thirty first, we get up early in the morning get a bite to eat. jumping the bus, go down to the Assembly area where we getting space suits and get those checked out. Take the bus out to the pad and get on the rockets so that That whole process was. I wouldn't say it's familiar but the the sequence and the steps involved were were very understandable to the Americans their I'd say the only difference really was. The Russians had set the the launch date and the liftoff time. About Four months in advance three or four months in advance. And that did not change. So we got out BIKING, out kind of on the high desert very flat terrain almost no vegetation. This is. The middle of the fall, you get up early in the morning and it's kind of kind of misty and foggy, and then the fog Kinda glisten a little bit. But at ten thirty in the morning, there was still about two hundred foot ceiling, which means you go two hundred feet up and you're up in the clouds nobody can see what's going on. The Russians push the button lit the fuse. We launched boom up into the clouds away we went. Shuttle never would have flown in those conditions so You know that. I I think that says a lot about differences in how the to space cultures operate. Now. About that right in the Soyuz that was your first launch on a Soyuz vehicle. How did that compare shuttle? Really, bad say about it. I think there's a lot of goodness in the vehicle and the castle itself there abort regimes. Which doing and get to a safe place they're they're really pretty good. the rocket itself I think when we flew. Soya's which is also called the booster rocket the Soyuz launcher. Had Been to the pad that we flew on and they had four hundred, sixty one. Successful launches without a failure. or at least a fair threatened the crew and those are pretty good numbers and so Despite the fact that the inside of the vehicles extremely cramped. The couches are quite uncomfortable. The suits are obtained the but essentially new. -Absolutely. But you gotta Ask Yourself do you want do you what comfort or do you want robustness and reliability? I think for most people. That's an easy choice. That's right now was a longer journey I guess compared to what we're seeing nowadays with A. Six hour rendezvous you're were orbiting the earth for two days before actually rendezvous with the International, space station, and finally getting ready to enter. Can you describe that journey? historically how the Russians plan there. Launch Dynamics. If you will we were launching in the plane of the station. But well behind it and below it in every route that we go around because we're we're. Circling they're somewhat faster were gradually catching up when we get within striking distance the last day we do little little burn. Zip Up to the station and doc I think that was a consequence of. The the ability of the Russians to have really good knowledge. Of were the Soyuz vehicle was and where the target vehicle was and what the potential errors could be. And so Driving around in orbit to do docking burns up a fair amount of fuel. You only have so much so I, think they were. Initially, very conservative about how they plan their flights. up until about maybe six years ago. that was the way they did it but then they started doing rapid rendezvous within four to six hours to catching up. It's just a little different play. it. It takes more precision, but somehow the Russians were able to change that. Now when you actually docked to the International. Space Station, this was going to be the first. I Guess A. Term Crew you had yet stf eighty eight before that visit the International Space Station. But what were some of those things you had to do to get the space station ready for continuous human habitation? Well. The docking was automatic was controlled by mission control, Moscow I'm sure that. People have seen the videotapes of the down link and all that we drive into a docking cone. And In once we get the hook. So the probe in the right spot in the cone couples which get flipped and the to. rings of the spacecraft get made it together and sealed So We open the hatch, we check the pressure. Everything's good open the hatch One of my first job was to sample the. Composition the atmosphere make sure nothing toxic was in there. in surrogate were running around with checklists. There was stuff that they had to do but I guess the biggest. Panic if you will that we had on our First Day docked was. We alive precedent that was scheduled for. About three or four at the end of our day, but three or four hours after we had docked. And it required getting a television camera out getting some lights wearing everything up during everything on. Assembling in the service module looking at the camera and then doing live down like to Moscow and we could not find. The cord that we needed to hook the camera. To the port where it was going to be on the radio system just frantic for. About an hour looking for the Dang thing and we finally got it. Done. But that was that was pressure. Well. You know you talked about going through the hatch and getting everything prepared. But what was going through my mind is actually entering through the hatch now I know. Today, we see Cruz being welcomed by crew members that are already on board station since we do have continuous presence but you being the Ones on board to start this continuous presence. Did you do anything special any sort of ceremony? Any any words even just between each other to really recognize that moment of entering the station for the first time. Not Really. We did ask we were on the phone with Mr Cop Tab who's the head of the Russian Space Agency and Mr Goldman who was a necessary administrator? They're both in mission control in Moscow. And each Each Russian crew that flew on a stage, the space station. Had Had their own call sign and it was generally one that stayed with various astronauts cosmonauts rather during their career. So One astronaut would ten they're usually astronomical names like Mars or mercury or something like that. And you're it gets INCA who was the? Commander. If you will for the the Soyuz capsule. His Russian call sign was Iran. and. One of the choices was going to be that during the mission, our expedition was going to be referred to as Iran. And your would be Iran one and circe would be who run to and I was probably going to be run three. And I did not like that for a couple reasons. So we kind of jumped the gun. and asked if we could use the radio call sign alpha. Space Station Alpha. And the the ground was Kinda apoplectic they said, okay. For the President Radio Call Sign, we'll call you that and That was a little bit of hubbub about that and I think that that finally went away six or eight missions later but people don't realize that. Not all words in English translate well into Russian, and the same thing is true with the Russian words. To English and Ron Is the name of the planet Uranus, and so I saw that as probably public relations minefield that we didn't want to go in. Well, let's talk about the. You're the first expedition. So I keep relating to the space station as I. Know it today we're in a period of utilization the the mission is research. But. I'm sure in the early years, your mission was getting station ready for research and getting it. There's Assembly efforts. Especially in the beginning years, and of course, you had to activate the space station get ready for future crews. Can you talk about some of your mission objectives in your multi-month stay? Exactly, that we had initial work to. Get the oxygen generation system. The bigger tissue was the carbon dioxide removal system that. That had some hiccups getting started We had a number of systems that did not cower up correctly. Some of them had components that we're inoperable or one in particular had a multi ten connector pins were but. The work that we had for expedition one was troubleshooting all that and inserting tabby into slot. B. If you will and we were all very hands on guys and that's what we thought. We were GONNA be doing on. Orbit. We're very happy to be in orbit. Trained for so that was a really rewarding part of The I certainly. The first half of our expedition I gotta say one thing about that. we we were told, and at least three times a day I can remember. Where we had come in and that particular piece of hardware was not functional or something is broken or wasn't working the way it was supposed to. and. We say okay. Fine. What what's the grounds plan to fix this? And the Capcom would say, okay, space station. We'll get back to you on that in about a day. Later we'd get the read from the ground and they would say, well, we've got that got the plan to fix. Whatever that thing is it's broken in and we said, okay, Great. What is it and they said, well, we're sending up spare as we said great. Are they going to get here? She was Six months after you guys leave and we said, whoa. So. In all those cases that I can remember. after a couple of days, we have a discussion with Moscow or Houston, and the discussion would be. Hey we see that console or that component it's up and running now can you can you give us Any words on what's going on and we would say look we spent the last three days Sharon. That thing apart at night trying to figure out why it wouldn't work and fixing it. And the ground would say, well, where did you get the procedure to do that and where did you get the spare parts where where'd you get the tools or you know who told you? You could do that? And we said, Hey, well, we figured we couldn't make it any worse. So we try to fix it and we did. And we could break it again if you guys want to break it and. Say No no, just just keep running. and. The thing about that was with we were constantly. Going back and forth with the ground on. Essentially what the capability of the crew was. And I it Kinda got down to. Try not to be too restrictive. You know let us do some thinking about what we can and can't do. Try Not to get ahead of us on this and I think. That's Probably not something they do a Lotta Today on station 'cause it's so mature but. When we go back to the Moon I'll guarantee. Going to be doing an awful lot of that in the question is, how do we learn? Where and how to be able to do that without making things worse and that's one of the big questions for the future we've got to have people who have the mindset. Yeah, that that mindset of autonomy I know I know definitely talked about. Not only for the moon which I'm sure it will be implemented but from Mars whenever just like you had experienced on expedition one where you had several years of communication gaps there's going to be significant communications delays for Mars mission, and so that level of tawny and the crew being able to solve problems real time. Without the help of the of the ground is absolutely. Something to consider. What I think. If there's one comment that I would have I have not seen enough of that. thinking. If you will on how NASA is planning to go back to the Moon I, think maybe don't need it for the moon. for the outset to do lunar exploration but we certainly need to be good at it when we start talking about going to Mars and practicing that on a moon mission is the way to go. Zooming back to expedition one for just a second you talked about some of your mission objectives but I'm I'm curious about life As I mentioned before the station and as I know it today very big lots of space lots of lots of food, lots of things to do exercise equipment. And they've been doing it for twenty years. So it's it's It's very much routine. But what was life like four the first long duration crew aboard this? Spacecraft. Well it. It had a routine to which we liked Initially we really constrained because we can only get in service module that gradually as we were able to add more power and open the note up we got the lab brought on board. It got to be really expensive and life got pretty good because. You know we had a routine we marched through the day and. Things were really good I've gotta say that One of the things that a couple of things really surprised me though. One was. I was in the middle of the service module. We got the note opened up were running around doing things mill the day. Late morning and I'm. Gliding over the viewpoint and service module, which is facing nadir looking down the earth. And we're going over the mouth of the Mediterranean Straits of Gibraltar and this is. The third time maybe that morning that we had been in that neck of the earth. Since we woke up and I looked over two year who was over by the Galley where all the food is. I said, we have any more coffee over there. And he was rifling through the coffee packs to see what was there and I thought about it and I said you know. I. I'm looking at the most fantastic view probably anybody ever has at this moment on the planet, and all I can think about is you know, is there another cup of coffee in the Galley and it struck me? How normal? Being in this really abnormal situation had become an I'm going. Wow this is really surprising i. saw that A lot on our flight and I've seen many crews after us in their on-orbit discussions and their debriefs. Exactly. The same thing it's incredible how adaptive Humans are and how quickly these completely bizarre. Circumstances become routine. Now I hear that all the time just how how this life on board becomes routine And and just you know this view, you see it because you're circling the earth. Sixteen Times a day. So it so it does become very regular thing. Still you know amazing to think about from from here on the ground especially for those of us who have not had that view. But just. Just, an appreciation for for the ability to adapt as you're saying, you know the space should now I as I said, can you not only used to it but you you have? You have so many amenities I guess on the station. Now you have have your own place to sleep. You have you have a sort of a dinner table where everybody can get together and eat off of the same dinner table. What was what were some of those elements of life on station with only three modules? You know where? Where were you sleeping? Where were you? Where were you eating together? Didn't seem like you had a lot of room to spare. Well surrogate and I were in the service module. Sleep quarters little rooms in the back end of A. Service Magic Yuri had eary's. He chose to bunk out I in the Soyuz. He slept in his Soyuz couch, which was kind of his command chair You're in zero gravity as long as you're not banging into stuff, it really doesn't matter where he asleep because your body position is is kind of this slightly contracted relaxed position. Both Sergei and I had these little sleeping bags you kind of Zip yourself up in it. So you're not banging around but quite comfortable. You already had a seatbelt. He put that on the way we went we did not have a kitchen table. And this was a big issue with ground because we thought we were told we trained and we thought we come up and we'd find the kitchen table in a bag or a box or something we talked to the ground after we can buy a couple days after we can't on orbit we said Hey soup the Russian Center said Where's our kitchen table? I said well, we we left off the flight because we had Stojan weight problems and we'll send it up to you and we said, okay, fine ones it can show up and again it was oh. Yeah. Six months after you guys get. So for about. Three weeks. We had a stealth project and we took. Parts off of if they if you will shipping containers came up in the Progress cargo ship. They were these aluminum racks and bars. And we build our own kitchen table out of scrap and again the ground went nuts but. Not. To be a very workable arrangement second expedition accused liked it a lot and I thought. Actually from a design standpoint because it was a little bit smaller than the big kitchen table that was originally designed that it was a little more workable wasn't in a way as much but. That got D- manifested win the Big Table came up and I think that. That piece of hardware is in the museum somewhere. But again, it's it's A. It's a question of letting the cruise kind of adapt to their own space. To build on that a little bit more. Every crew I've seen on station. that. Get to the point where they. See themselves in an environment that's really not part of the earth anymore at least for a couple months and that's a really important kind of mental construct has to how astronauts see themselves in relation to her. Now you mentioned you when you were talking to the ground you said Oh that's not gonNA come for six months was that the arrival of the one Oh to crew the the space shuttle that arrived and what else did they bring? Well actually the table came after the one or two crew. So I think the six months might the table showing up might have been the at the end of their expedition but? One or two brought up the. MP L. The The Italian logistics module that Italian Space Agency was providing and That was also Susan Helms Tim Vass and the commander Yuri USA Jeff, and we spent a week with them on orbit. people outside Hook and stuff up and then Jim and Susan I. Guess It'd spacewalk or two. and. Then When we do these docked events with a shuttle because of the. Reduced pressure. That's the shuttle has to be at for the as we generally have the hatches closed. So it's. Shuttle, Docks, you have some initial meeting grade. Then it's a couple of days of hatches closed and we open the hatches up on the as or done so. If very hectic time, lot of running around moving. Bags and cargo. Get any. MP L. M. attached to the station but It was great to see. People that we had worked and trained with for years, and now they're up on orbit and. We're going to get on discovery close the hatch go home. Now, one thing before you went home that I believe it was it was you who instituted. This was a tradition that still carried on today. Handing over command of the International Space. Station you as the first commander that change of command ceremony with a bell and handing over of I think it was a key. That was started by you and there was inspired by your time in the navy. Is that right? Yes I and. It was something that we had talked about both with the Russian cosmonauts, the other astronauts in in Houston that we wanted to do Simply because we had to control centers. At that point we have four. Now at least might have five I'm not sure but the WHO was in charge of the space station in later years in in in the modern era. definitely gets. Passed around from country to country, and even you know nationality nationalities whereas a station commander. So anticipating that we thought you know The navy has a long tradition of doing this and it's the Royal Navy in the UK. The Russian Navy does the US Navy does it then. You have the school ceremony where he say okay fine. Here's the crew and we're gonNa tell you something and here's the new guy who's in charge and how. He's going GonNa do and so it's a chain of command and we thought that was a really important. cultural thing to introduce to the space station. I think at first the Russians were gone there scratching their heads saying. What are these Americans doing now? But? I think today. the and the Canadians the Japanese and Europeans really like it because. It really sets the tone for the next phase of station operations and how it's going to be run. Now. When you came home, you came home on the space shuttle and this was a little bit different for you in that. The tiny spent in space was much longer than you had previously on your other shuttle missions. How're you feeling when you came back? Now that you had spent so much time in your space, your your body adjusting to one g after a long expedition. I. I had a really good experience I don't really know why I always spent a Lotta time. Hunter. Days on orbit. getting what exercise we could We had a little jungle gym there we worked on the was new that really seemed to be beneficial. My experience coming back after I assess flight. was probably as good as my shorter shuttle flights and I I felt really good. I did not have Any particular Uneasiness you know nervous tubular issues or anything like that. Has has a little experiment. Day After we got back the morning after the day we had landed. we were GONNA pile into van how in the parking lot get the Kennedy Space Center. We're going to go somewhere for some kind of test. And when you`re Walking around to do these things you have. A flight surgeon right with you and maybe one or two other handlers just in case you start going wildly they'll catch you. And I I've felt pretty good and so we're out in the parking lot. And I talked to my flight document said the Terry and he was going to drive the vantage Tara? Let me Let me try driving the van. Oldest in on his head since Sunday morning, and it's like six o'clock in the lobby in the lot outside the. Building at KFC there's nobody in the parking lot. There's no cars in the parking lot. And he says, okay but just take it really. So I, got I got in the car and I'm driving around really slowly I could turn really slowly. Didn't like breaking abruptly, but you know as long as was easy on the controls it was. Okay. And then I did that for about three or four minutes I stopped got out. And I thought to myself. This is the kind of thing that we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA be doing when we go to Mars and we have a long journey we're going to be weightless. We have a landing. We're all GONNA pile out, and we're GONNA be in rovers and things like that and I thought about that and I, said to myself we can do this. That's big. That's that's berry big. That means that. Know, as we're shaping what that's going to look like that. That little experiment you did it in the parking lot might actually prove useful as to as to how humans can perform on another surface. You know we've learned so. Not Well documented, but I think that's the kind of stuff. That's right. You know we learned so much just from the International Space Station just pass yours I know I, know you retired from NASA in two thousand one but taking a look at the whole space station program after your. mission. Going from starting in two thousand now here we are twenty twenty. You know what do you take away from the experienced of what you've seen maybe from the outside of what we have our what value, the international space. Station, throughout these past twenty years has brought us. But I think people Maybe. Have, not experienced or don't remember. What pay technical and programmatic and possibly disc diplomatic challenge the space station really was. In the fact that we're able to do it, I don't think the state space stations had a major technical casually that I'm more of since we launched we've had what sixty three expeditions on there that have all been very successful We have multiple ways to get to the station now So you gotta step back and say. Well what does this really mean in terms of? the future what you know, what what does this say about what's next and I say well. If we're. GonNa go. Past the moon out to Mars and maybe other places, asteroids and things like that. The character of how we will do this It's going to have several aspects. One is the vehicles that we send and they're probably going to be more than one of them are going to be very big they're going to be. Such a size that they can't be symbol on the ground in launched in a single lift, we don't have the boosters that are going to have enough power. So they're going to have to be assembled in orbit with. Ada In robotics and they're gonNA have to. Combine the resources of more than just one country because the the expense of Mars mission is not something. Any single country's GONNA be able to afford nor would they have all the technology and capability that will be required? And so if you look at International Space Station. It's really a blueprint for how to do this. So I think all those questions there behind us. Does just an incredible thing to think about the space station not only for informing. Exploration plans for talking about the moon. We're talking about Mars and having a foundation of international? Cooperation. Is is really thanks to the space station. Program I know one thing we're looking forward to in the near future you talk about multiple ways to get to the space station. Now, that's an era of commercialization with commercial crew and I know there's efforts to commercialize low-earth-orbit and. What else is going to be low-earth-orbit in the future and it'll be thanks to the space station that's informing some of those commercial enterprises Do you think there's there's value there to space station as a platform to help build an economy in low-earth-orbit? Well I think it's a big question that hinges on What what do? Commercial operations really are commercial enterprises. What do they look like? I think it's hard to have. A. Commercial Market. When Nastase the only customer it kind of stretches the question of is it really commercial event If, we were able to. Find some material invent, or develop something that could only be done in St Louis had tremendous value either in the space based economy or back here on earth. Then I think you'd see commercial space really take off. Everybody's very optimistic that we are going to find something like that. I know that if we if we don't look for, then we're not gonNA find. Right. Now thinking about that you know you gotTa make sure that Nastas not just the only customer that we're one of many customers and we're also looking at exploration. We've got this artist program and that's going to inform our exploration plans from Mars how do you see Nasr's role for the future? Said Open question right now, I would like to see NASA. Take a strong role and leading the technology development and organizing the architecture for our. We're GONNA do Lunar Exploration and certainly Mars expeditions I think that's the right place for NASA. The one negative comment that I would have is the. Were NASA as a political animal if you will, and we tend to have a great periods of very robust development and operations, and then a stand down for a decade or two before we do the next big thing we did that in the Moon Program we did that shuttle were. Probably going to do that when space stations. Pass passed its peak and getting ready for some sort of disposition. I don't think gets a very healthy way to. Have a robust space capable organization. If we could change that for the better I, think it'd be a tremendous thing. I absolutely believe that too, Bill. Shepherd. Thank you so much for coming on. Houston we have a podcast and sharing. The history of what it took to get to expedition one year experience there, and then what you helped shape for twenty continuous years on board the International Space Station, I very much appreciate your time. To be with you and your audience. Thank you. took. The bring your. Hey thanks for sticking around. Hope you enjoy this conversation with ship as much as I did, we've been putting together a collection of episodes about the international, space, station and celebration of the twentieth anniversary of continuous human presence. Go check us out at NASA DOT GOV slash podcast. You can click on us used to we have podcast and off to the side, we have a collection of space station episodes you can listen to them in no particular order. This has been a very dynamic time for the International. Space Station this month and we got a lot more coming up checkout NASA DOT GOV for the latest launch and landing schedule of crews going up and down to and from the International Space Station. You could talk to us at Houston. We have a podcast at the NASA Johnson Space Center pages of facebook twitter and Instagram is the Hashtag ask NASA on your favorite platform to submit an idea for the show. Just make sure to mention it's for us at Houston podcast. This episode was recorded on August Fourteenth Twenty Twenty thanks to Alex Perriman Pat Ryan nor Moran Belinda Toledo and Jennifer Hernandez things again to Bill Shepherd for taking the time to come on the show. We'll be back next week.
The Origins of the International Space Station
"We're all better off with any ally that's why ally invest is committed to providing you with actionable market insights and information from their investing pros to help you invest with confidence from the basic principles of investing to exploring advanced strategies and everything in between ally invest covers it all so can make the most of your investments head over to allied dot com slash market insights to sign up for weekly market insights from our investing experts. That's a. l. l. y. dot com slash market i. n. s. i. g. h. t. s. What if you could get thirty dollars after joining a better broker. You can with 'em one finance once you're approved and deposit one thousand dollars in your account in one. Let's you easily manager finances and invest how you want for free. We'd say it's a million dollar idea but that's underselling it visit 'em one finance dot com slash tech stuff to learn more. That's m the number one. Finance dot com slash tech stuff terms and conditions apply investing involves risk including the risk of loss in one finance member. Finra sipc you're not still entering your data into salesforce manually. Are you well see us. Insight can dramatically improve your relationship with salesforce visit c. i r. Us insights dot com to learn more welcome to textile production from iheartradio. He there and welcome to text up on your host. Jonathan strickland. I'm an executive producer with iheartradio and above all things tech and. I think we're in the ultimate space station episode folks so for those of you just you know tuning into this episode of not hearing the others. This is a continuation of a series. I've done about space stations. So we started off talking about monolithic stations that is stations that would launch into orbit all in one piece like fully formed. And you would use some sort of heavy lift launch vehicle to get them up. You know the orbit that includes stuff like the soviet salvat stations which also included a couple of military platforms and also the us skylab station then in the following episode. We focused a lot on mir the soviet slash russian modular space station because that particular space station was up in orbit and Survived the transition from the soviet union dissolving and becoming. Its various you know independent states and then we followed that up with an episode about nasa's attempts to get its own modular space station up in orbit That last one was a real gut punch because it involves a series of different proposals and attempts. That you know fizzled out At least as far as nastase original plans go but this all sets the stage for the international space station or the iss. Which is what. I had intended to podcast about in the first place because depending upon whom you believe. That station is starting to near the end of its functional life. All right so let's do a quick look at what was going on as we arrived at a point where the iss becomes possible. I yet russia back. In the soviet days the soviet space agency built several space modules. That could serve as the core of a space station. Amir's core module is an example of this another example was the functional cargo block or f. gb now this type of module was originally intended for the mir space station but it never launched to join mir was also part of a soviet era antiballistic missile system. Kinda like the star wars program was supposed to be here in the united states and similarly that also never achieved orbit now some in the west suspected that the f. g. b. module that would eventually become the first iss component in space. Which would be called zarya that That means dawn or sunrise and russian. Anyway they thought that it's possible that this f gb unit actually dated to the soviet era or at least was largely constructed in the nineteen eighties however other documents. Show that while the design came from the soviet era the actual construction would take place in the nineties More on that in just a bit. But the russians also had another module with the designation of yet dose eight. Dos eight and you might remember from the previous episodes that the cell yet program included space stations. That had the dos designation. And that mirrors core macho had the designation. Dos seven while the dos. Eight was intended to serve as a core for successor space station. The mir to they're supposed to be a second mir. The soviet built dos eight in the nineteen eighties but for various reasons that program never got off the ground so to speak and the module sat in storage in the factory for many years and it would eventually emerge as as data at which means star in russian or possibly since the vfw sounds are a little tricky. I'll say zvezda. But because i tried to look it up but honestly the the resources i looked at. I'm i don't fully trust them. 'cause a lot of them just had that robot telling me it's vesta helps to me like it's just doing it. You know phonetically anyway. Over in the united states and europe and japan you had various space programs all at work on the design and development of modules for what was going to be space station freedom and then space station alpha or space station fred as some would call it and these included a module from the european space agency. That would be called. Columbus and one from japan called the japanese experiment module or j. m. or kibo but by the early nineteen nineties. All of those plans were starting to fizzle out. As the united states congress began to balk at the prospect of paying out for a space station that made little progress. Since the reagan administration had announced it in nineteen eighty-four that also put international strain on nasa. Because it had made commitments to these other space agencies so the collapse of the soviet union. Serious number both on its own space program as well as the united states program so for decades the rivalry between the united states and the. Ussr pushed governments to pour more resources into the space program. For numerous reasons. One was to display technological superiority over an opponent in the cold war another was to establish technologies that could potentially be weaponized in the future in a further escalation of the arms race and of course there were the countless engineers and scientists who genuinely wanted to expand our understanding of space and science but without that political rivalry a lot of the was gone at least on a political side. And you know. Don't get me started on that. I find that so frustrating. As if you know pushing back the boundaries of ignorance is somehow not priceless all by itself. You never know what you're gonna learn or how you might be able to use it and it could be an enormous benefit but no you know unless there's that other guy to race against it doesn't matter anyway by nineteen ninety three. There was a real possibility that any space station plans from anyone. Were just gonna get tossed aside at least but on the back burner for really long time. Russia was struggling with a financial and political crisis. The united states was struggling with the fact that the space station designs had moving goalposts and budgetary issues so every time nasa was trying to readjust new criticisms were coming in and various politicians. Were starting to pull away from nasa budgets. Also by that point bill clinton had become the president of the united states so with a change in presidential administration comes another opportunity to salvage the work on developing space station. This time russia would be invited to join that project rather than service. Some sort of antagonised. Clinton's team saw the possibility to combine the efforts of russia with those of the united states canada europe and japan to create an international space station. The big benefit here would be that the pieces that were already either fully built or in the process of being constructed or at least ray to go into manufacturing could still be put to use rather than just go to waste to that end. Us vice president al gore and the russian prime minister whose name i'm not even going to attempt to pronounce first name. Victor i can get that one anyway. They together announce the planned partnership of the iss. What would become the iss and the agreement would also create bonds of international cooperation. Which in turn could mean a shift in the arms race as well. As a way to help. Russia stabilize politically as wells economically in the wake of the soviet union's collapse. That's a good thing. You don't want unstable countries Especially unstable countries that might have access to enormous stores of weaponry. So the various countries all begin to form and intergovernmental agreement or aga this would create the three phases of the space station project. And actually this was the second. Iga the first one actually took place in nineteen eighty eight but that one was without russia's involvement. That was back when it was still going to be. You know space station freedom. The second agreement would come out like a decade later. Ninety eight all countries except the united states in this agreement doesn't near the iga as a treaty in nineteen ninety eight in the us. It was not a treaty was an executive agreement. Now that's an important distinction. Because in the united states at treaty with any foreign government requires that the united states senate has to ratify that treaty by a two thirds. Majority vote executive agreements. Do not require that kind of ratification and in fact they can pretty much hold the same sort of powers as a treaty. Can though this is interesting. Because there's no express clause in the united states constitution that actually grants us presidents this particular power however. There's also nothing in there saying that they can't do that. So clinton signed the executive agreement. Bypassing congressional battle over the whole matter and as nasa puts it the new. Iga established the overall cooperative framework for the design development operation and utilization of the iss and addressed several legal topics including civil and criminal jurisdiction intellectual property and the operational responsibilities of the participating partners lower level bilateral memoranda of understanding or. Mou's were signed that same day. By nasa administrator daniel goldin with his russian european and canadian counterparts and on february twenty fourth with japanese representatives. The mo- used described the roles and responsibilities of the partners in more detail. A third layer consists of bartered contractual agreements establishing the trading of the partners rights and duties end quote at really interesting. That bartering was part of this. Because i'm going to cover a lot of the various components of the international space station in this episode and many of those were part of this bartering. Where one party was saying all right. Well i'll let you do this but you need to let me do this. And that all kind of came about as international cooperation so all of this was going on ball. Of course mir was still operational and an orbit and as mentioned in the mirror episode. us astronauts would actually visit the mir space station as part of preparations for creating the international space station. They're gathering valuable information about life in space. The effects of space on the human body and more these findings would inform design decisions for the future space station modules. In fact i should add that mere stayed in orbit until the spring of two thousand one so there was operational overlap between mir and the international space station so the mir program continued while nasa the usa japan canada and russia worked on components for the new international space station in nineteen ninety eight. Things really got off the ground figuratively in literally and not only that when the participating countries signed that i g a and the imo us it's also when the first component of the international space station launched into orbit so ten months after that historic signing russia's sent the zarya module up into orbit aboard a launch vehicle called the proton k essentially a big goal rocket. All right so. Let's address some stuff here. And i mentioned earlier. That zarina's design at the very least traces. Its origin to the soviet era. Now the purpose of the zarya module was to act as a a station keeping component. That is it is a part of the station that can work to maintain a fixed distance from other stuff in orbit to allow for things like docking maneuvers. And all that kind of stuff. It's important for the stabilization of the station. It would also serve as a source of battery power for the station at including having having solar arrays. That could help charge. The batteries are really not helped Batteries charged the batteries and it was based off the f. Gb cargo spacecraft design. Now the thing is a module that was meant to do the very same thing as zarya was originally part of this soviet anti-ballistic program called skill Which was an abandoned project they. They tried to launch a laser based anti-ballistic weapon. Up into space. The russians did but that launch failed So there were some folks who suspected that zarya was not made in the nineties but was actually a leftover perhaps even a spare fjb that was originally meant for this weapons program back in the eighties. Now if that was the case then the united states was essentially helping fund something that was already built right because the united states paid the bill for russia to make this thing. It could be that they already had it made and they were just like. Yeah no things are going great. Keep sending the money now checks in the mail it would largely explain how this spacecraft managed to come in under budget and on time. Those are two things that are pretty darn rare when it happens in the space industry now. Does that mean for sure that it was actually built in the eighties but passed off as being built in the nineties. No no not at all just that. It's possible but whether it was constructed in the nineteen eighties or the nineties. Zarya dead launch into space on november twentieth nineteen ninety eight launch from kazakstan and got into orbit without any major problems. Now the intent was have zarya operate on its own with no crew aboard for up to eight months and it would turn out than the module would be lonely a bit longer than that. Now broadly speaking you can think of. The iss is being made of two major sections. There's the russian orbital segment or are os and there is the us orbital segment or u. s. o. s. Zarya is the module that connects the rs to the us os or the at least on the russian side so zara is twelve point. Five six meters. That's a bit more than forty one feet long and it's four point one one meters or about thirteen and a half feet wide at its widest. Point it is sort of a You know it's a cylinder but a stepped cylinder so it's not all the same diameter across the entire length spacecraft. Like i said it also has a pair of solar arrays that stretched out to either side wings to help you know to to generate electricity. Zarya has three docking ports. One on each end of the module so like if you look at a cylinder one on one into the cylinder one on the other and there's a third one that faces earth typically on the outer circumference near the ford end of the module. They call this the deer of the deer ports. Those are ones that typically face toward earth in the iss normal orientation and then you had the zenith ports which face away from earth in i- s.'s. Normal orientation then you also have port and starboard Ports and some of these starwood being the right hand side. Assuming you're facing forward and you're upright you normally don't have to say that because you're normally time about starboard and port on a boat and you're almost always upright on a boat unless you're really sick and then porticos courses the left side so anyway. Those are the various directions. We try to keep them straight. It's hard to do when you're talking about being in a microgravity environment were up and down or more concepts than anything else anyway. So reports one on either end of this module one on the new deer or earth facing side of zara zara links to these vesta module on the aft end and it connects to a us module. We're gonna talk about in the second on the forward end and it connects to a third module called ross vet on the earth facing Port although originally that port was actually used for soyuz space capsules to dock with the station. As i mentioned this module alone was not enough to support life aboard the station so there was no crew at this point. The second component to join the iss was the us built unity module. This is a connector piece. Kind of its main purpose is to connect the west section of the space station with the u. s. o. s. section. So this is. The united states version of that it also serves as a crew dining area and it launched on december fourth nineteen ninety eight as part of the space shuttle endeavor mission so this module was in the payload of that space shuttle. We'll talk more about unity as well as lots of other modules on the iss after we come back from this quick break It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face fax. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it. Using in-depth genetic analysis in real time bloodwork forwards top-rated rated doctors provide you with in-depth insights to better understand your genetics mental and physical health. They then create custom easy to understand plans to help guide you to achieving long-term health with forward you get unlimited in person visits with your doctor and access to care anytime via the forward app offer. One flat monthly fee. It's time to stop accepting backwards. Healthcare and start moving. Your health forward visit go forward dot com today to learn more. That's go forward dot com. There's a reason they call 'em one. The finance super app in one is a powerful. All in one hub for your finances and the perfect tool for self directed investors to grow wealth simply and easily invest. How you want with fractional shares to fine-tune your long term strategy and unmatched automation to take care of the heavy lifting. Free unlock one plus to do more with every dollar more flexibility for your investing better interest rates and more powerful automated tools. Your first year of 'em one pluses free no strings attached a one hundred twenty five dollars value for the hundreds of thousands of people who have accounts with m. one managing money is smarter and easier than ever. It's no wonder money. Invested pedia and yahoo finance are all raving about this app. Visit 'em one finance dot com slash tech stuff to sign up. That's m the number one. Finance dot com slash tech stuff once approved. You could earn thirty dollars. After depositing one thousand dollars terms and conditions apply investing involves risk including the risk of loss borrowing adds to those risks and one finance member. Finra sipc honey nut. Cheerios are made with whole grain oats and a touch of real golden honey and they are totally delicious eating a bowl of honey nut. Cheerios takes me back to my childhood. When i would think of them as a treat but what's really cool is how well they treat me. Honey nut cheerios can help lower cholesterol as part of a heart healthy diet. That's really important to me to over the past couple of years. I've really been changing my lifestyle to have a more healthy one. Ed something that. I kinda put off for far too long and having something like honey nut. Cheerios as a go to breakfast is a a huge mood boost. Because i know. I'm eating something that's healthy but also sewing that i genuinely love and that's really tasty and like i said it takes me back to being a kid when you start off a day like that. Let me tell you the rest of your choices to make sure you're on that healthy pathway are way easier to make learn more about honey. Nut cheerios by picking up a box. Wherever you shop for cereal. All right we're back to unity. Let's learn some more about this particular little module which again was sort of the connector piece one of three nodes as it would turn out so there to other units aboard. The iss are part of the iss that are similar to unity so unity measures. Five point four seven meters or nearly eighteen feet long and four point. Five seven meters or fifteen feet in diameter so it looks like a very short cylinder when you're at a distance right Has six ports on it as one on either end. so these are the axial berths. That's a. b. e. r. t. h. s. not not birth as in like birthday but birth has no ship birth and it also has four along the The circumference of the spacecraft. If you like these would be the zenith needier and port and starboard Ports or births so on the forward and aft births which are called The common berthing mechanisms again b. e. r. t. h. these are c. b. m.'s. These at these ends they had to pressurized mating. Adapter one on either side. These are called. Pma's and as the name suggests pma's serve as a way to connect to components together and maintain a pressurized environment. So that different pieces could link together the pma on the aft side of unity ca. Dock with these zarya module and the pm on the forward side would later serve as docking point for space shuttles though in subsequent missions crews would disconnect this pm a and attach it to other berths while connecting new components to the iss so it was not permanently affixed to the forward side. It was however an is permanently affixed to the aft site where it connects to the russian part of the space station. Astronauts aboard endeavour use the shuttle's robotic arm to connect unity to zarya locking the two pieces together and creating the first linked modules for the iss. It's still wasn't ready to support a crew yet but it was the first step toward the dream of an international space station. You know in space now. I mentioned unity. The connector module It serves as a place where crews eat meals together and also acts as a pass through for the various electrical and fluids systems on board the iss meaning it allows for those things to continue through this module and connect to others very important like all these modules need to not just fit together but they need to allow the various systems especially life support to go from one unit to another so that you have it throughout the entire space station. Unity was responsible for one of these things even though it wasn't itself You know a life support system module now. The plan was to add other components in pretty short order and get the station to a point where it could be habitable for crews like the idea was all right we'll get the third module up there with life support and then we'll have a crew aboard and we'll be ready to go by the end of ninety eight but the next module to go up would be a russian one and and the russian space program arose. Cosmos was really struggling. The united states. As i said actually owned zarya having paid for its construction again. Assuming it wasn't already constructed Zelda would need some extra help in order to get off the ground both figuratively and literally and it got some help from and i promise. I'm not making this up. Pizza hut so russia as a whole was still really unstable economically around this time and the space agency while never lacking in scientific expertise and ingenuity often founded strapped for cash. Which makes it really hard if you wanna launch something into space. So part of the funding for this project actually came from advertising pizza hut's spent a truckload of money to have its company logo painted on the proton launch vehicle though it carries svezda up to orbit. The new york times reported that the pizza company spent about half of what it would take to run a thirty second ad during the superbowl at that time and that was around two and a half million dollars so more than a million dollars maybe a little less than a million and a half. And hey you know this. Might sound a little crass about you know slapping logo on the space rocket but the money helps keep the dream and the iss alive esda would be the first module to actually have a life support system incorporated into it so it finally allow people to go aboard the young s. once everything was connected and operational vizner launched on july twelfth. Two thousand the initial docking with the aft port of zarya happened on july twenty. Sixth two thousand however it would take a space shuttle mission. That was launched a few months later in september for astronaut and cosmonaut and astronaut-cosmonaut each to go on a spacewalk and make all the cable connections between zvezda and zarya spacewalk lasted more than six hours to get all those connections complete and at the end of it. Vesta zarya and by extension unity. We're all connected together. On september twelfth two thousand with all the systems operational members of the space shuttle crew boarded the space station for the first time now as part of that transfer zacarias computers handed over control of the station to them so zarya now was no longer mission control for the russian part of the station and zvezda would serve as the living quarters for astronauts in the time for the time being it also had propulsion systems for making attitude and orientation adjustments to the station very important and it also had a communication system for making contact with earth. Finally after components had been an orbit for about two years. The space station would have occupants and it would maintain some crew sometimes a very small one but it would always have crew all the way up to and including today so since september thousand twelve. There has always been at least a crew aboard the iss so vesta would be home to early cruise at the iss. A might wonder what it was like at the module was thirteen. Point one meters long. That's about forty three meters. Our feet in length rather and it's widest point in its diameter is four point three five meters. That's a bit more than fourteen feet and it has four docking. Ports of three of those are part of Section called a transfer compartment which is at one end of the so imagine like a cylinder has almost like a ball at one end. That's the where the transfer compartment is. And that's where you could find three of those ports And it's at the forward. And like i said of the the module you have one port in the axial direction means coming out from the end and the other two ports on either side of the sphere at ninety degrees from the axial port. So you can think of them as zenith and air up and down. You could also think has left and right depending on how you're looking at the station so the axial port docked with zarya so these modules connected end to end you. Think of him as like two cylinders connected Into end with one another the other two ports on the transfer compartment attached a ultimately would attached to the poice module on one side and originally a module called peers on the other peers later gets swapped out for a new module called nauka which will have a lot more to say about later on a fourth docking port was on the aft end of the svezda module so on the opposite side of the cylinder this would serve as docking port for soya's spacecraft and cargo ships coming up from russia to resupply the station. The vesta supports up to six crew members. I actually sleeping quarters for two. So folks have to kind of sleep in shifts also has other necessities like a toilet obviously really important astronauts who flew aboard the apollo missions could tell you all about that and it also had exercise equipment in order to help crew member stay healthy and space and counteract things like muscle and bone loss. It also has a kitchen area for food preparation there are fourteen windows in zvezda Including one in each of the sleeping compartments and one of the carryovers from the soviet era of russia's space program wind up being a real sore spot for svezda also for zarya so nasr's approach to space modules was to include components that could be swapped out so that should something fail. You could bring up a replacement on a subsequent mission. Remove the failed piece of equipment and install the new one and now you've got operational Abilities back again. Russia build everything directly into their spacecraft. Like it was not something that was removable. So if anything failed then the only approach you had was to repair the thing that failed otherwise it was just useless because there was no way to replace it. You couldn't take it out and put a new whatever. It was in like a new computer system. For example. You either fixed what you had or you had a broken one and that was it. So that included vistas oxygen generation system. The device used is called an electron that's e. l. e. k. t. r. o. n. And it uses surprise surprise electricity to generate oxygen from water. This process is called electron. I've talked about it a few times on. This show is pretty darned simple in concept you you apply and electric charge. Two water molecules and that that electricity that that energy breaks the molecular bond between oxygen and hydrogen and both of them get released as gases. Now you could theoretically use that hydrogen. You'll but it's pretty dangerous stuff. It's incredibly flammable. And so the electrons system would simply vent hydrogen into space but the oxygen would be used as part of the life support system. But the trouble is the electron system on. Zvezda is pretty darn rickety. I mean originally developed for the mir space station and frequently requires repairs because as a tendency to break down and the cosmonauts can't get a new electronic into the visitor module because and here's a classic problem. The electron system is larger than those vesta modules hatches. So in other words you couldn't get a replacement system in there because it won't fit through the door what say but anyway back in two thousand and all of this was brand new. Hadn't started breaking down yet. And on september twelfth two thousand there would be a crew aboard the space station and there has been every day since next the us attached a trust segment called these e one to unity and also added a third pressurized mating. Adapter the other two being mounted to either axial end of unity and the trust of the space station you can think of it like a scaffold It's it's a. It's a skeleton in a way upon which you can suspend numerous components and there are a ton of them This trust extends outward from the space station and it can hold stuff like the massive solar arrays when you look at a picture of the space station and you see those big wings of solar arrays. Those connect back to the trusts of the space station A lot of other stuff connects it to the z. One was the first of these trusts. Pieces and nasa would add to this many many times over the following years. However just gonna let you know. I'm going to skip all those different trust editions. Because there's a ton of them they're important. But if i focused on all those i would never get to the modules so the next module to join the party was from the united states and this was the destiny module launched on february seventh. Two thousand one aboard the space shuttle atlantis docking with the other end of the unity capsule on february tenth. And before that could even happen. The atlantis crew use the space. Shuttle's robotic arm to detach the pma to from unity's forward docking port So this was the one that was opposite. The one that connects unity to the russian modules. Zarya the pa to got shuffled around a bit until destiny had been docked into place in the forward side of unity. And then the atlantis crew reattached pm. To to the other end of destiny it would take several days for a straw astronauts to make all the connections necessary in order to bring destiny fully online now. This module is eight point four meters or twenty eight feet long and it has a diameter of four point two meters or fourteen feet and it kind of looks like a can of soda to me but obviously with docking ports on either axial end Those are the only two docking ports on destiny. It does not have any of the ones at the zenith nadir's or starboard or port sides. So it just has one on either end of the cylinder. Destiny serves as the first and primary research lab aboard the iss at least on the us side. This is where the science gets done. But you know not to make a need gun for the people who are still alive. We're talking about biomedical experiments engineering experiments physics experiments earth science experiments material science experiments. All that kind of stuff when you think of the science that's happening aboard the international space station. Destiny is the primary spot where that stuff happens. Not the only one but the main one so this is the kind of stuff that astronauts aboard the skylab space station focused on back in the nineteen seventies destiny was the first module to make use of racks to hold various station systems and experiments in place so these are like mounting points for various experiments. Obviously when you're in a microgravity environment you gotta have ways to attach stuff to your spacecraft or else it's just gonna float around and bump around in microgravity so these are standardized racks and in fact they're called international standard payload racks or isp ours and other countries with the exception of russia. Use the same standard so that experiments and systems can fit on any of these. The destiny has eight rack bays and they can hold up to twenty four racks. These things by the way are massive on earth way around five hundred forty kilograms or twelve hundred pounds of course microgravity. You don't have to worry about that now. As i mentioned some of those racks hold station systems in place. You know stuff like life. Support systems and electrical power systems or climate control. Systems and destiny did not have the full complement of twenty four racks when it launched it had some but not all of them. Additional space shuttle missions would bring up more racks which would then get installed into the rack. Bays in destiny's lab destiny also includes eight twenty inch window of incredible clarity. Nasa calls it like the the quality of telescope lens like that kind of level of clarity and astronauts. Mostly use this to conduct earth science experiments. So if you've ever felt like someone was just kind of watching you. Maybe it was peoper aboard the iss makes up. That doesn't like magnify everything. Obviously being a little facetious. The pictures of it are amazing. Obviously like then you're looking at a a lens through a lens right. You're looking at a camera. Image of the glass. I really wish. I could see what it looks. Like to look at the earth through that glass in person. I imagine it has to be absolutely spectacular. We've got a lot more to say about the iss and boy. This is really a huge huge undertaking. We are going to take another break and comeback rafter this hey salesforce users they say the one thing money can't buy is more time I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Technically if you buy a product and it creates more time for you then money did buy you more time. For example if you're spending hours and hours entering your salesforce data manually but then you decide to use seeress insight to automatically entered data for you. That's buying yourself time. Have you heard of the site. That's c. r. u. s. insight. They recognize that you have a relationship with salesforce and their job is to make it better a lot. Better i mean imagine. If salesforce data entry was automated what if link clicks email opens and website visits. Were all tracked for you. What if your meetings jumped onto your calendar visit c. i. i r. Us insight dot com to learn more. If you're like me you probably avoided going to doctors and dentists steering the pandemic but now that everything is opening up again. It's time to catch up on regular healthcare. Preventive healthcare is so incredibly important but making appointments and finding larache. Doctor it can be a real hassle but not with zok doc. Just download the free doc. Doc app is the easiest way to find a great doctor and instantly book an appointment with doc you can search for local doctors who take your insurance and read verified patient reviews about those doctors and then book an appointment in person or through video chat. You never wait on hold with a receptionist so it makes all of the elements that are barriers to finding a doctor. Go away whether you need a primary care physician a dentist dermatologist. Psychiatrist and doctor or other specialists zok doc. Has you covered. Go to zach. Doc dot com slash tech stuff and download the zach doc app to sign up for free every month. Millions of people. Use doc you can be one of them. Zach doc makes healthcare easy. Now is the time to prioritize your health. Go doc doc dot com slash tech stuff and download the doc doc app to sign up for free and book a top rated. Dr many are available as soon as today. That's z. o. C. d. o. C. dot com slash tech stuff. Hey tech stuff listeners. I'm here with calli cox from ally and we're chatting about nf tease well. And if by definition is a non fungible token the type of assets. That are one of a kind. Think about your house with the kitchen. That looks like nobody else's kitchen and that's what it is. It's essentially a non fungible piece of digital art. So if i were to go out and purchase an nfc. Let's say that. I see something artists that i like and i want to have an nfc of Something that represents that that person's what is the thing. I'm actually purchasing. You're essentially purchasing what. The industry calls a token right. It's almost like a code like an owner code that you get that shows that you own almost the rights to the certain entity because if you think about it means jeff's anything on the internet can be easily copied. I mean the ad copy and paste funds for a reason but an f. data is stored on the botching. And these tokens that you own are stored forever cannot be modified on the block chain. Thank you to kalli cox and to ally for demystifying enough. Tease head over to ally dot com slash tech stuff to sign up for weekly market insights from their investing experts. That's a. l. l. y. dot com slash tech stuff. Okay let's get back to it in july two thousand one. The united states launched a joint airlock module named quest and this module attached to the unity module and gave astronauts On the us s side of the space station the ability to perform evas or spacewalks. Because up to that point the only airlock aboard the space station was on the russian side of the iss so you know astronauts weren't really going over to the russian side and vice versa. So they didn't really get to use that airlock all the other. Ev as that were performed on the us side had been part of space shuttle missions rather than conducted by the crew aboard the iss because they know airlock to go through in order to you know exit. The station and do any va but quest changed all that. Then the russians launched another module in september. Two thousand one this one was the peers module that's the i. r. s. and the russians docked with a port on the vezina module Frequently referred to as the bottom or need point because it was facing the earth usually and it served as a docking module. In other words. This was a way for other spacecraft like soyuz capsules and cargo ships on crude cargo ships to dock with the iss. It could also serve as an airlock so that cosmonauts could go on e. v. as so this expanded the station's ability to have you know spacecraft with it. I should add that one thing that is consistent aboard the iss is that it always has a couple of soyuz capsules attached to it to serve as escape capsules so that should there be a catastrophic failure aboard the space station cosmonauts and astronauts would have the ability to get into a space craft capable of making the return back to earth so some of these docking ports. End up being in use as these these various Capsules stay attached for up to like six months at a time before being swapped around now this module the peers module is one that we can actually refer to in the past tense because while it was part of the iss for a really long time. I mean almost twenty years. It is no longer part of the iss today earlier this year. Russia removed peers from the iss and maneuvered it for reentry and de orbited the module on july twenty. Sixth twenty twenty one. This was so that they could make room for a new module which we will talk about possibly in the next episode. Because this one's running longer than i anticipated but for twenty years peers was a big part of the iss then from the end of two thousand one to two thousand seven. The iss pretty much stayed. As i described it would no other modules joining although crews would continue to join and leave through various soya's and a few spatial emissions Also the trust section did get larger with more components. But as i said earlier. I'm not gonna cover all those. It would just take way too much time. It's fascinating stuff by the way. I mean like it added tons of different functionality to the iss. But i gotta draw the line somewhere anyway. Part of the reason for that long delay why nothing happened really as far as modules are concerned between two thousand one and two thousand seven. Is that the space shuttle program was grounded due to the space shuttle columbia disaster. That happened on february first. Two thousand three just like nasa put the spatial program on pause for more than two years after the challenger disaster. They did the same thing. After columbia shuttle missions would not start again until july of two thousand five so it really set back plans of building out. The iss and only russian capsules visited the iss in the meantime and a skeleton crew of two people serve to occupy the station at that point. Because there wasn't a whole lot of opportunity to do much out so this was an era of the iss. Where not that much science getting done. You only got two people aboard there. They have to handle everything aboard the station. Not just the experiments but you know the regular maintenance and operations of the station itself. The next module to join would not launch until october two thousand seven. It was aboard the space shuttle discovery. And this would be the module that would be called harmony and this module is very similar to unity. it's one of the node modules and Like i said a third one will join isis. Before we're all done with it. So like unity harmonies. Purpose is partly to provide connecting points between other units in the space station but also serves as sleeping quarters for up to four crew members initially harmony dot with one of the births on unity. So that these two nodes were connected directly to each other but a few weeks later crews would move harmony to the other end of destiny so that destiny connected to unity on one end and harmony on the other end harmony also serves as the mounting location for the space stations robotic arm canada-arm to it also has four. Isp ours dedicated to crew storage and another four isp ours for avionics systems in two thousand eight. The european space agency's module columbus joined the iss. Now this was originally intended to be part of space station freedom more than a decade earlier. You know back when that was still a thing. Columbus launched aboard the space shuttle. Atlantis on february seventh. Two thousand eight. It is seven meters long twenty three feet and it's four and a half meters diameter or fifteen feet and they can hold up to ten. Isp ours for science experiments and then more for various systems the esa technically has fifty one percent operational control of columbus. Nasa has the rest of it that means that the two agencies actually split these racks between them so Usa as control of five racks for experiments and nasa has control of the other five and that they just share the space cohabitate like destiny. The activities on columbus are geared towards scientific experiments and expanding our knowledge particularly when it comes to space exploration columbus docked with the starboard port of harmony on february eleventh. Two thousand and eight so again that means if you were in the harmony module and you're right side up which is again a week distinction here in space and you have the destiny module behind you. That's to your raft. You're facing forward. That would mean that columbus would be on your right hand side. You need to go through the hatch on the right to get to the columbus module again. All these directions get pretty loosey-goosey when you start to lose reference points like up and down so your mileage may vary. I guess next up shortly. After columbus came the japanese experiment module or kibo. Now kibo is really big module. It's so big that it required three separate shuttle missions to bring all the major pieces of the module up to the iss like columbus kibo connected to harmony on the port portside south. The left side of harmony got destiny behind you. And you're right sign up and it has twenty three. Isp ours aboard it those racks. There's enormous experiment racks. Ten of those are reserved for science. The rest are for kibo systems and crew storage. Kibo has its own robotic arm. It also has its own communication system A hosts a ton of different science experiments and that includes stuff like earth science experiments that monitor. The co two content of the atmosphere of our planet has x ray astronomy experiments Electronic telescopes cosmic ray experiments. Lots of really super cool stuff. It also hosts various physics and biology experiments. and then there's an exposed facility. This is a part of the kibo module that attached to the far end of it This is a science platform. That's exposed to space for those kinds of experiments. You know the kind where there ain't no air out there It's a little tricky to talk about the size of key bill because of all these different pieces that came together. If we're just looking at the pressurized parts of the module as the bits the astronauts can move through without wearing a spacesuit. Then you have one part of it. That is about eleven meters long or thirty six and a half feet long and has a diameter of about four point four meters or a little more than fourteen feet. But then there's a second part of it. A module that extends out from kibo at a ninety degree angle of this Tube so think of this one pressurized tube and then like almost like a submarine has like that console at the the one end. You've got this part. The juts out of one side of the tube at ninety degrees. This one's four point two meters long or thirteen point eight feet and four point three nine meters or fourteen point four feet and diameter. so kibo isn't a simple cylindrical. Shape like mostly other modules. It's a little funky looking. Next up we get the point module. Peo- i s k. This was the first of the russian Orbiting system os portion of the space station to be added after many many years poisoning is similar to the piers module in fact almost identical to it and peers as i will remind you it. Docked back with the iss way back in two thousand one so poice serves as docking docking compartment primarily. Just as peers used to do before you know. They gave it the boot from the iss earlier this year poised thus houses an airlock and docking system and an attached to the president module on the side opposite the peers side. or rather. You know the side where peers used to be. So it's on the zenith side. On february tenth twenty ten nasa launched a module called tranquillity aboard the space shuttle endeavor. Now this one was commissioned by the essay and the italian space agency or a s i. the modules main purpose is to provide life support systems environmental control systems and an observation coupla to the space station sort of like a a quality of life module. If you think about it and tranquillity has six ports or berthing locations allowing it to connect to up to six other components on the space station it docked with the port side of unity and we'll chat about a couple of the other components that have since docked with tranquility in our next episode but I want to do one more before we we wrap up here. And that is the respite module r. a. s. s. v. e. t. And if you're thinking that sounds like that's russian you're right. A joined. The iss in twenty ten and roosevelt's main purpose is to serve as a storage container as well as another docking port for spacecraft. This one didn't fly aboard a russian launch vehicle. It actually went up. Courtesy of the space shuttle atlantis on may fourteenth twenty ten and docked with the iss on the teeth. It connected with the bottom ornate here point of these zarya module the original i s module. That started this whole thing and the other port on rasa that serves as a docking port for soya's spacecraft and cargo spacecraft. This module is six meters or about nineteen point seven feet long and two point three meters or seven point seven feet in diameter. all right. We're going to wrap up here and we're gonna come back in our next episode to pick up where we left off talk about the last few modules that have joined the iss including the nakayama which is the most recent one And we've got another one on the way before the end of the year if everything goes well so we'll talk about those and we'll talk about what life is like aboard the space station some of the experiments that have been done some of the interesting things that have happened aboard the space station during its time in service as well as talk a little bit about the plans of what comes next. Like how much longer does the iss have before we really need to consider retiring it because various components are pretty old at this point and what should come after that but will do that for the next episode. This one has gone on long enough. If you have suggestions for topics i should cover feature episodes tech stuff. Reach out to me on twitter. The handle for the show tech stuff. H. s. w. and i'll do again. Releasing tech stuff is an iheartradio production. More podcasts from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Wherever you listen to your favorite shows Salesforce users raise your hand if you enjoy entering your data manually. Of course you don't enjoy that nobody does. Have you heard of cirrus insight. They can dramatically reduce your manual data entry by making salesforce. Much more automated. You're not dreaming. You can actually improve your relationship with salesforce by using cirrus insight. That's c. i r. Us insight dot com. What if you could get thirty dollars after joining a better broker. You can with 'em one finance once you're approved deposit one thousand dollars in your account in one. Let's you easily manager finances and invest how you want for free. We'd say it's a million dollar idea but that's under selling it visit 'em one finance dot com slash tech stuff to learn more. That's m the number one finance dot com slash tech stuff terms and conditions apply investing involves risk including the risk of loss. Im- one finance member. Finra sipc here we are. The world of work has evolved. We can either go back and work the way we used to or we can keep moving forward and work the way that we can up work. The world's work marketplace is where independent talent and game changing companies come together to share opportunities to make great work and to build the relationships that inspire up. Work up we go.
Superdope - 169
"Welcome friends the how to heretics. I don't go mark. I'm dan doug and this is your users guide to life on the outside indeed. Leaving religion is the first step into a larger better world of but it can also be a scary world. Things work differently now her. That's why we're here to help. Good friends and experts snell sorts of fields. We're going to share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great after all only get one. We see better make fellow uncle. This is below the well that was an a. well-done pluralism. I think there's a theme this week. An asset this is one of our accidental themes and it the accidental theme. This week is things is brains. That may or may not be working properly indeed right and doug you have a perfect example of one that is clearly not working properly. I am going to kick us off with a little local celebrity. Not for any good reasons kind of mormon story that doesn't end in a in a body count so actually quite a happy story. Well yeah it body count yet. Finish their over. There was an there wasn't allegation of it. Kind of went nowhere. So i am going to talk about a person who everything seemed to be going fine with his brain until he was on the road to milan and then it wasn't anymore. You gotta convertible. Then he was of two minds convertible. And i am going to tell us all about something that could happen to any of our brains. Yeah and and we'll see how that goes and we'll find jesus together and learn about ourselves and dan you you have a little announcement on the on the show here a little special event. I guess i many of you know that. I do another program called thank god. I'm atheist You you two uncles have frequented that our sister program and and frank has been on our show. Yes indeed well because this is cova times and that's the worst timeline of all Hopefully nobody is planning on going to any big parties nor new year's eve which sucks. But you know don't risk your life just so that you can kiss somebody for no good reason. So what we're doing is a livestream that will The the the we'll we're we're gonna spend three hours a plus just jabbering away having a good time. A lot of a lot of friends from various podcasts are going to be on and you to on goals are going to join us at some point. Yeah we will. We will sign it together. We'll have some bajrami some camaraderie and more importantly than ringing in this next new year. In this next year we will be ringing out this one yes indeed same need addio to the most broken of all of the years that has ever occurred. So we'll we'll see as we get closer to that date we'll tweet out and share information so if we don't have full schedule yet but but you know this is a fun announcement and all of you. Everyone everyone's welcome to join When we'll yeah we'll have information to come. Yep so with that. let's do a show you how. Hey mark well above. I am confused. Said i am confused for indeed for low. I know not what uncle doug has in store what he has done. What have doug wrought in the world for. Forgive them father doug has. Doug has a surprise for us today at. It's because it is the first day of the advent calendar think and one of the days of of hanukkah so. I'm pretty sure that it's the day that you blow out the candle and get a surprise from uncle. Doug that's right. Well i figured because this subject is something quite well known to both of you. Surprise you on the air with it It's something we've been kicking around for a while but it finally you know cat. It's the drill. Finally came up with the subject so komal come with me if you will to the heavier days of the late nineteen ninety s. We were so innocent then the prequels had yet to come out and ravage childhood memories. Donald trump was just that loser enthusiastically pointing a pile of meat. No doubt anyone under thirty or or not from utah. The name super del. Sean z will meetings but those of us lucky enough to recognize that name. I'm confident i've just triggered a torrent of painful and stupid memories actually. I'm quite delighted by my memories of superdome. Well you know how can how can we can. We miss him if he won't go away. More kind of mormons late stage mormonism late stage. Rudy giuliani perfect. I don't know has rudy ever kicked a bird Probably almost certainly a hilarious pratfall thinking about talking about the rise and fall of super dilshad over. So he's the topic. I thought he was just a reverend nope the topic. We're talking about today. Let's fuck and do this rock and roll baby. Yeah let's let's let's take our minds off of the plague for a few a few minutes ever since we started the podcast thinking about talking about this guy because his story is so inextricably linked to utah and the weird cloistered culture of the mormon church that it could really only happen here or so. I thought As i began to piece together. His bizarre vaguely annoying life story. I began to see parallels in to a life story an attitude and demeanor of another improbable in annoying character. Let's see if you can guess who by the end now. This guy is still alive and as will soon see is no stranger to the court system. So under the advice of andrew torres esquire. I am going to tread carefully. Everything i'm about to say comes from new stories court proceedings and shuns his own mouth. So i'll try to not get your asking us who else he sounds like it by by this description. Yes i think it will be somewhat obvious when we get to the end. Okay Del buck sean. Z was born in ithaca new york in nineteen sixty nine He made his way to utah. The age of twelve after his parents divorced on his facebook page claims to have skipped high school and gone directly to cornell university. A let anybody into cornell. Yeah i could not find. Any evidence of this is totally skipped high school. Yeah just went right. Yup in one thousand ninety six at the age of twenty seven. Sean zi founded totally awesome computers. Which is why any of us know his name. It was a completely forgettable. Pc sales repair and refurbishment company utterly indistinguishable from the thousands of other pc shops popping up at the time. Basically every strip mall in america to the check cashing place precisely. I was indistinguishable indistinguishable except for one thing. It's eccentric owner and his willingness to embarrass himself. Sean embarked on a relentless and inescapable inescapable ad campaign featuring himself and his blond flattop in all. Its ritalin fueled glory. These obnoxious ads were everywhere on local tv. As annoying as they were and they were annoying they were hard not to notice. And within a few years they were paying huge dividends. Yeah he was and he. He was consciously obnoxious like he should be fed. Yeah yeah it wasn't. But also i mean. Can we just point out the fact that the phrase people younger people might not know this but even in the nineties. The phrase totally awesome was was done was planning. He named his his computer company. Something that was like the rest of us were already like wrong. Yeah we're we're. We're some great comedians. Kind of hone their skills on the road at little comedy clubs. Dell's sense of humor was definitely honed at the mtc exactly. He was far more carrot top than he was. Jerry seinfeld At its height totally awesome computers operated nine stores up and down the wasatch front and was estimated to be worth several million dollars. Shansie poured even more More dollars into this chinese water torture of an ad campaign running ads during prime time. Sporting events Before movies in theaters and anywhere else you care to look. Although sean zina's campaign predated youtube and social media this garbage went viral. Although when i say be clear. He called himself super del. Yeah you introduced him. A super del shawn's heap. That was a that was a self given mom. That's right yeah. That was not given by the super friends like napoleon. He crowned himself right. That's exactly right. And although his crap went viral when i say viral more like herpes in the sense that they were painful embarrassing. Never welcome and nobody wanted to see more of them but except for his ads in personality being brutally a brutally annoying he seemed like earth in the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy to be mostly harmless. That dear uncle would turn out not to be true that the sent a little familiar about somebody. Anyway flush with cash. Sean went big into paragliding in two thousand three of the just. That's the obvious tracks right exactly. So he took paragliding and then in two thousand three he founded totally awesome guns and range it turns out that chelsea was just a bit of a gun nut and what would evolve into an impressive rap sheet shown z. Was charged with a concealed weapons violation in one thousand nine hundred two. He publicized his gun business with the same crazed intensity as a computer business. The most famous ad. I don't know if you guys remember this. That he made for his gun business featured a young obviously white woman cowering in her house as a dangerous intruder who was also white only. Because i'm sure shawn's he didn't know any black people to put in the cast prowls around the house scraping his bowie knife along the bricks the whole when he finally gets to the door and begins fussing with the lock she opens up with the heretofore unseen fully automatic machine gun at lowe's the whole clip on him. Jesus it was a nuanced message. Yeah he's subtlety was his was really as for exactly. Yeah just like mcnaughton these guys just do not get nuance and subtlety. Now the only the only setting on their dial is eleven. Exactly yeah that is so true of shaanxi. So it was at this time that he was at a zenith yet to thriving businesses. He was a minor local celebrity and he began parlaying that celebrity into new ventures including a series of leadership. Dvd's which try as i might. I could not find anywhere really try. Somebody's tended to doug. Sometimes if you go like at night if you go behind i like there's bins that they don't even put garbage in there just things that they hope people who knows what is outside. It's the mormon thrift store. You guys. yeah it's hard to describe. How much. Super del sean. Z was a product of the mormon culture of utah. Not only is that spastic enthusiasm int- but even the vernacular like you said dan. Totally freaking awesome. Man is so part of mormon culture. Add to that that utah has some of the highest rates of fraud and personal bankruptcy in the country and you have the perfect environment for huckster an ego maniacal dingle berry like there is a particular kind of arrogance to certain mormon men as well. After a lifetime of being convinced that they're the most righteous and worthy beings on the planet you can just see in spades and sean z magic powers to don't forget that's right and and a little magic vile of olive oil. We talked about that. We should asia. We'll get as we're about to see this arrogance and self righteousness would cause sean z to fly paraglider. A little too close to the sun. Cracks began to show in the totally awesome computer empire when in two thousand and three his former vice president and former friend william may sued shahi claiming that because he may was not mormon shansie had passed him over for raises and promotions. The suit was set. I is probably one hundred percent right. Oh it's gotta be right. The suit was settled at a court but jones's legal troubles were just beginning. How did john z. Make a non mormon friend. I know a and and and where did he find one in you know southern salt lake or northern utah county. Yeah i don't know Let's see that same year. He was fine. He was sued by another former employee for defamation which ended up being dismissed but it turns out that employees sherry young also alleged financial shenanigans and before long the irs began an audit of totally awesome computers and totally awesome guns and range then in to be less than totally awesome up. Then in two thousand five shaun's got into a confrontation with a group of neighbors over his driving. God i remember this. It appears in what would turn out to be a lifelong effort to overcompensate for something sean z would drive his black jaguar at high speeds through his sleepy neighborhood. This had gotten so bad that finally a coalition of his neighbors confronted him. The confrontation got hot. And one of his neighbors picked up a rock and threaten to break his tail lights which caused sean z to pull out a gun and threaten them. The police were called because even in america. You can't point your gun at your neighbors by the time the police got there. Sean who these are all white people we should we should probably and i'm sure the question is going to get asked is how does this guy continue to not be in prison. And i don't know but will. I don't know we'll talk about it. It's not for lack of this. Is america and he does have money or has had anyway so when the police finally showed up surround shawn's been surrounded by even more fed up neighbors and he railed to the press quote. This was a very simple case of frigging psycho road. Rangers decided to be really nice once they knew i was armed their whole personality changed. It was amazing. Adding is just astronomically. Ludicrously insane to tell the community that it's not okay to defend yourself. Yeah he will. He claims that he was defending the victim. Yeah i feel like there were so many there were so many totally awesome double double negatives in that can you imagine how shitty enable you must be for the neighborhood to like coalesce around that. Yeah anyway all yes. I can't imagine it. I've had some shitty neighbors but we have never gotten to the point of pitchforks and torches right like maybe just a note like hey guys although a jury would later find shaun's not guilty of the brandishing charge. He would be found guilty of lying to the police and misdemeanor speeding. This incident was the beginning of the end of his. Two businesses had found himself in meshed in a web of ethics complaints lawsuits. An irs audit now criminal behavior. It seems the good people of utah had finally had enough of this live action gritty. And sean he was forced to dare besmirch gritty hero hero of the revolution so shawn's was finally forced to close. Its live action. Cosmo maybe cut right there. Let's see closes gun store in two thousand five followed by all nine of his computer stories in two thousand six at the announcement of his company's demise shansie railed at reporters saying quote. It's too bad that all of you in the media and utah are liars and murderers. You just destroyed the greatest computer company of all time we are we are the are the best in the world the world champion all this hatred was created by you. You're basically angels of satan. I had nine storefronts that fixed shitty. Pc's fuck and fly flyover square state. I was the greatest. Does that remind you of somebody now. With the collapse of his two businesses his public persona now fully past its sell by date and legal and financial problems mounting. I think we all felt we were. We were about to be free from the public nuisance. That was super del shaanxi wrong. We were wrong so can i. Can i just say that. As a bit of foreshadowing. When i started to google him the drop down in the google search thing said dell i. I've done del s. c. h. And there he is dell shoddy and underneath. His name is a word that shocked me. Which is what you're about to say. Yeah yeah what is it what is it. It's it's politician to win an election to be a politician to do yeah. You have to be believable. As a human being the exact impolitic l. somewhere along the way shawn z got into the aforementioned paragliding. And when i got into it i mean he became obsessed. Now i am not going to bag on Paragliding in general. It looks like a perfectly pleasant pastime. Except to say if you've ever been around a group of paragliders it's pretty fucking annoying. It's like every one of your neighbors decided to mow their lawns at the same time early on a saturday while you're nursing a hangover and in any case sean z. Was going to do for paragliding. What donald trump has done for golf at some point. Sean z found that his paragliding company. I tried to find out more about this company which is apparently now named u-turn usa. But in looking for it did a google search for totally awesome paragliders and the first hit totally awesome dot com slash para motor. And this is true. Take you to an online pharmacy. Selling discount viagra out of canada excellence. Can you say that again. Serve right in any event in two thousand six only months after his incident with his neighbors. If in an effort to jennifer sales shansie flew his paraglider way low over the freeway during rush hour traffic possibly causing a minor accident. This this stunt ended up with even more charges for shawn's to which ended up pleading no contest to be clear. He's not just doing paragliding. Which is just with the sale. He's doing the thing where you strap the fan on your back and then you can. You can toodle around like you're a single engine exactly airplanes up and down controlling harem mode. There's there's yeah there's like paraguay. I it kind of is interchangeable and all the reading. I did but you're absolutely right. And it's that that's the main annoying one. He's not going to do the one that isn't annoying. Exactly right. that's exactly right. She comes no surprise that chauncey has not ended up endearing himself to paragliding or para motoring community among other shenanigans. He created the world powered paragliding association association or wpg ppga which he claims tests and certifies paragliding equipment and records this made up association unsurprisingly has certified only one paraglider that meets. Its exacting standards. I wonder who shawn's own brand the flat. Top paraglider only twin in two thousand. Why would you. i love that. He named a company after his bad hair. Go again was over long before the nineties. In two thousand eight. Sean z felt as though he had not inflicted himself sufficiently on the public so it was uncle. Dan said he began first of several quixotic political campaigns. I for mayor of salt lake. County than for governor of utah libertarian on the platform on a platform of banning abortions expanding gun rights restoring freedom. I love the idea of a libertarian. Being about banning something primary. Exactly sean z. Accused then governor jon. Huntsman of being an antichrist's socialist the the son and heir of one of the one of the west most richest industrialists and most conservative legacies. Although jon huntsman is not the most conservative of conservatives but now so more on that particular campaign a few minutes in that same year shawn's he was charged and convicted of reckless driving and seatbelt violation stemming from an incident where he swerved into oncoming traffic causing driver to swerve off the road into construction coincide turns out. The bad driver happened to be officer. Michael poletta driving home from work in an unmarked police car when he pulled. Sean z over. Shawn's his wife and two children. Were in the backseat. Two hundred children are in the front seat. Sharing one seat belt and schanzer was unbuckled He claimed he was swerving his car to make the kids laugh. But you've swerved into oncoming traffic know re read. That was his. I mean yes the rate for radical honesty. I guess they were going to get ice daddy. Mmediately call didn't immediately call child protective services. Kids he was again arrested in two thousand eleven story oregon for parachuting. The story a column he had. I got away with it. But then posted video of it on youtube leading to his arrest classic turns out that vanity would come back to bite him again in two thousand thirteen and this may be why some other people besides utahns. This guy video appeared on youtube of a man pursuing a migrating alal- paraglider para motor for several minutes before finally twice kicking the exhausted bird. The man can be heard screaming. Who's the predator. And i just kicked the owl in the backside. The video is actually say backseat actually said back. Because he can't say ask what if at least he's not a total mormon hypocrite. Well the video is awful. You can watch the terrified. Bird grow weaker and weaker as this douchebag and his stupid lawnmower powered over compensator laughing like a fucking jackass. Yup chase it down until finally kicks in the video was apparently posted by shawn z himself on youtube not knowing or perhaps not caring that knowingly using an aircraft to harass wildlife and pursuing a migratory bird are both misdemeanors and was an endangered owl endangered. Al federal prosecutors not generally known for their sense of humor charge shawn z and in two thousand fourteen u s magistrate. Judge brooke wells order that as a condition of his pretrial release. All guns be removed from. Shawn's he's house. It's hard to imagine the dark corners of a mind like sean z's especially when confronted by the federal government. Actually coming for your guns right. But even still his response was. Let's say unexpected. Sean had interrupted the judge several times during the hearing and although she repeatedly asked him to stay quiet she suffered his idiocy with calm dignity then in response to her order. Shawn's a yelled out quote. Are you aware that a human head was thrown through my my picture window. I seem to remember this. I see why that is an impressive thing to bring out in court certainly. How's that for an october seizes. The court after a long pause judge wells said that she actually was not aware of such an incident and and cut him off as he tried to explain further saying that random shot putting of severed heads would not affect the conditions of his pretrial pretrial release when questioned outside the courtroom about his. Run in with the headless horseman. Shawn's re railed at the credulous reporters quote. I'm telling you the truth. You guys are liars. Nothing you say is true. Sound familiar the irony of this is the absolute best way to describe shawn's. These physical appearance is kebob greenish. Sean z ran for mayor of saratoga springs in two thousand ten and again for governor in two thousand twelve and two thousand sixteen this time in the independent american party because the republican party had gotten too liberal for him. Yeah the utah. Republican party exactly in january on january second of two thousand and nineteen dell was charged with shooting his gun within six hundred feet of a neighbor's house. He's set up a target practice range in his backyard. And he's a menace. Public menace fucking. 'cause could hear the gunfire. They you know they were approaching and a neighbor said they could hear bullets whizzing over their heads. During the trial prosecutors prosecutors listed many of his runs with the law to which shawn z responded that his record reads like quote a record of awesomeness and that he was being quote a hero in the community. So that's kind of brings us up to now. Like i said at the beginning in my mind the story could only really happen in utah. But as i read up on this litigious self promoting fabulous with a towering ego and a series of businesses and disgruntled business partners in his wake who has aspiring aspirations to public office on a far-right platform. Something occurred to me. I'm not saying that. Super del sean. Z is what donald trump would be if he hadn't been born rich. I'm saying super. Dilshad is what donald trump junior would be. If you hadn't been born rich and here's the thing in two thousand eight. He got something like twenty five thousand votes for in for for governor for governor. I mean you know. We're a state of three months. Four million people however many but sill and if both twenty sixteen and twenty twentieth taught us anything. We are stupid enough to elect a guy like this. Oh yeah so. I mean not we. We're stupid enough to elect very different guys but we as a as a state. Yes not not we uncle. that's correct. I mean the royal we so yeah. That's basically it except for one little anecdote. I assured by council. We are able to talk about on the air. And it just gives a fine little coder. This story back in two thousand eight uncle market had left the country to work on a project and forgotten to secure his absentee ballots. Okay hold on. Are we telling this story. We're telling the story. I i Yeah okay. I've been assured by council where okay about this. I'll let me clarify. I was i was in georgia. I was i was in atlanta. Oh that's right. And that's out of the country. And i was listening to its in the confederacy and i was listening to the local utah. Npr station and it was the run-up to obama's first election. Right and huge historic fucking thing and yet we're duggan on a very political and we're very excited about it but i'm also an idiot so i'm listening to the radio and it says like tomorrow or the next day. Is your last day to register your for your absentee ballot and utah. I was in fucking georgia right. So i panicked and i say i can tell this of course and so i was like fuck. What am i gonna do what i'm going to do and i'm like oh doug and i look a lot like you guys know. We sound a lot alike. Not that clerk knows what we sound like. So i said okay doug going to fedex you my passport and all i need you to do is go to the clerk's office and just register for an absentee ballot for me. That's it right right. So that's all i asked you to do. Wanna go on record. That's all i asked you so. I though problem i got this. I'm i'm consider myself to be. You know kind of double o seven ish. So i took your idea and i went to content to register for an absentee ballot and i will d seven. Put your id. And i'm like. I'd like to register for an absentee ballot in the woman's like well. Why don't you just vote. I just looked at it like okay. It'd be it'd be winner if you were a now. I'll take the absentee ballot. That's going to seem really strange stomach. okay so she heads fuck it. I'm just going to do this form. And it says the top name. And i right doug crumple the form up slowly. Look at her. Like going to have another four please. He fucked episode like that. They should have known right now. No gave me this kind of side. I but gave me another forum. And i filled it out with the correct name or the incorrect name and then i walked in to the room and you had to hand your idea to the person's you walked in the room and the woman took the idea and she said oh. It's almost your birthday. I said no. It's not yes it is. The worst might be the dumbest spy on of this. Move so at this point. I am sweating. My mouth is dry. Like i'm going to be in jail day so i'm just at work being likely so i managed to get in there. I voted for obama. But as as my vengeance from for ending up in jail i made uncle. Mark cast a vote for super dillashaw for just a perfect cap to that stupid fucking store so if anybody if anyone in the federal government's listening i guess this'll be our last podcast but Right you i remember. I'm not the one who committed the crime right right and also that was just a fake story in and it was just for fun and we were just kidding. So that's it my confession shit. That was totally awesome story. Doug you're welcome super del. Twenty twenty four. Oh my god yeah look look up. Maybe we'll find a video of one of his commercials and throw it into the show notes. Snap something to to chew on while they while they he looks exactly like you think he looks yep and the issues of the nerds meets donald trump. Yeah let's let's get out of this humor's amazing okay. My uncle dan hello. There are certain characters in our culture our global culture. That are more laudable than others. Like super del. Shaughnessy like super dilshad more or less. And and they have a distinction that sets them apart and it's imposed by a guy in a funny hat on a little gold chair. That's right it is santa uncle mark. I believe you have one of these. Yes horton characters used to. I had a real bummer of a story last week. so you did. I sure did and so this week. I resolved to do something a little light on the sadness and institutionalised torture and focused on a silly fun little story about an almost comically weird murder. Oh yeah i got killed. But we're going to have some fun anyway. So did you guys see the article from the jerusalem post where the former head of israeli the israeli space agency. Quick note israel has a space agency. That's new information excited to see their first manned launch wander for forty years on its way to the moon anyway he. He claimed that we were anyway. They the israelis have been contacted by emissaries from the galactic federation. Yes but we're told to keep mum about it because humanity isn't ready to know that so naturally. The israelis told it to that famously incorruptible steel trap of secret keeping donald trump right so incidentally that article is on the front page of the jerusalem. Post next to an article. Assuring people that the utah monolith is not in fact the work of aliens. Oh my god what's what's funny about that is. It's a story about aliens and and sort of galactic nonsense and the least believable thing about it. Is that trump kept a secret. Oh by god you would've you would've told it as he was walking out of the room. So twenty twenty. You're really letting it all hang out so that's pretty nuts and amazing if true but because my brain is nothing if not an amusing mess. I naturally wondered what those aliens. Those alien alliance years have been observing about us to make their determinations. And as an art school dropout. I thought obviously what if the only fruits by which they have come to know us was catholic. Haggi graphic art the artem the saints and their martyrdom follow so years years ago or maybe just last february which is kind of the same thing. I found myself standing in the long gallery of the italian renaissance in the louvre in paris You know when americans could leave their homes and and go that far and while i was being buffeted and body checked this is true by busloads of elderly tourists racing past the stunning masterworks of one of the greatest periods of european art. So they could take a photo of far less remarkable small brownish portrait of a lady. My gaze was focused on a beautiful almost life painting of a pale woman of some nobility kneeling in what looks like a beautiful italian villa opening to a pleasant landscape and standing next to her is an even more pale. May i would say ghastly gray man among in fact with a sizable michetti deeply embedded in his skull. I love this painting. It's called saint peter martyr and kneeling donor by umbro job. Bergman yonne from fourteen ninety four. And i think he was. Also the first painter of the beef tweeted it out earlier this week that all these years later i still think about that. That painting all the time and then it was wondering what aliens would make of it. I suddenly realized. I knew. Nothing of saint peter the martyr or of the series of unfortunate events that lead to let him to be portraited in such a manner so i took my machete and started hacking away for those who are new to the show and or have exactly zero. Contact with catholicism. It's art and it's very particular obsessions With murdered believers are a big deal most especially ones that died in the line of catholic. Hang you know spreading the word defending the faith cetera et cetera. Right when a person dies in such a manner there is kind of a silly but also a real process by which that person may be declared a saint by whatever. Pope is sitting on the throne of peter at that. Given moment and saints are sort of minor. Gods i know. I know you're saying but uncle mark catholics are monotheist. But are they really when you have a god with three heads but also separate but really mostly together in their separateness and jesus mom is really the most powerful of a legion of over ten thousand officially recognized saints to whom you may pray for some very specific help. Monotheism more like mega theism. If you ask me look out you hindus with your thirty three million gods the catholics are coming for ya and also because of the catholic belief and things like blood blood. Magic trans substantiation the resurrection of jesus and the kind of weird one of lazarus etc. There is an obsession with death and flesh and blood that your standard american protestant looks at as deeply weird as does your friendly neighborhood atheist. We've talked about a lot of those ideas on the show. And i don't want to waste too much time calling out episode numbers but in brief for trans substantiation checkout episode twenty four and for real whale of tale involving a tiny chunk of a very holy person checkout holy bleep you segment episode six or just for the gruesome insanity of. It tries saint denise carrying his own severed head in episode thirty four. Or maybe the cadaver sign on in fifty nine catholicism is wonderfully terribly morbid the three of us as amateur maybe by now pro semi pro students of all the bloody and bewildering business of the saints are sort of amateur haggag fers. How yager fee being the study and writing about and veneration of the catholic saints. Maybe just not the last part of integration but you can call us haggi hobbyists about so anyway. The hug have you. Graphics study of saint. Peter the martyr or saint. Peter of verona nasty led me to some strange gruesome and hilarious anecdotes of his supposed life born sometime in twelve o six. This gentleman of verona showed to desirable talents a deep love of jesus preaching. His word and almost fanatical devotion to the pope has three since. We're gifts that. He was welcomed into the dominican order at the tender age of fifteen his main obsession. After the jesus was something very close to our hearts here on the show. Heresy what was the particular flavor of heresy the lovely hills of tuscany and lamberti. At the time why are that of the authors of course villains who the catheters so in short the catholics were a weird and super interesting form of neo mannequins Doug told us about the mannequins episode. One thirty seven the catheters were an evolution of that eastern infused manichean idea of dueling him where everything is either sacred or evil to the catheters the material world and everything and it was evil. Can man sort of an alien being passing through. It was essentially sacred. They also believe that. Jesus was not really the son of the almighty god but an angel that pulled a chris. Angel mine-free k. chris. Thanks for your continued support criss angel level magic trick with his crucifixion and didn't really suffer and die at all pretty weird stuff differently not beloved of the vatican at the time who was at that moment leaning pretty heavily on the levers of various inquisitions so it was against these kinds of medieval new. Agers the not yet. Saint peter's set his sights but not before a little time out. It seems he was accused by some busy bodies. Lost a history of leading persons including women persons wrote unaccompanied into his chambers after dominican. Business hours what for this for this great shame. He was banished to some crummy outpost in the hills. Where despite his humiliation one story says it did please him because he felt his punishment brought him closer to the suffering of jesus lovely cool beans somehow. He was totally exonerated a short time later from his alleged nocturnal indiscretions and was welcome back to verona by his fellow friars. I've just impressed that you've found a a non gay priest. Well it said. Some of them were women. Okay i think he was very exited. I think he was he. I think he was a non binary saint which is a. That's something new so anyway. I recharge peter was the toast of tuscany. His sensational sermonizing in anti heretical harangues made crowds react like teenage girls. When the beatles turned left at greenland and found america it was pandemonium stories of peter. Have him being. Nearly crushed by onrushing anti heresy groupies and at times having to be born up above the maddening crowd on a litter by several strong. Men's and so impressed was pope. Gregory nine th of his name that he made peter. The head of the local inquisition could bring some real world applications to his anti-catholic mouth frothing A good time was not had by all which brings us to the first of his. Many miracles One day he was quite late to one of his rallies leaving his hashtag. Mava make verona. Great again fans languishing in the hot italian midsummer sun. Upon arriving one of those dastardly catheters scolded him for his rudeness gesturing to the parched and sunburnt crowd the heretical catholic asks peter to summon the cooling shade of a cloud to relieve his devotees confident as fuck. Peter agreed to do so if the catheter and his comrades would cast off their heresy and beg god forgive for forgiveness realizing they had caught him in a trap. They did so and then the totally unusual event of an overcast sky occurred miracles. His next miracle was a bit of a boo boo. And it's really on him. One impassioned teenage boy from verona. No not the one. You're thinking of made his confession to the rockstar. Fryer he told peter he had in a fit of pique kicked his mother odier hoping to drive home the gravity of violating the fifth commandment peter exaggerated for effect and told the loud. It would be better that his foot was cut off then to commit so grievous and offense being both a teenager and italian. The drama was strong with him. The youth went home. Found a blade and act off his own foot. My god what he when he learned of this strange cry for help. Peter rushed to the boy with hot tears of guilt. Held the foot up to the stump made the sign of the cross and boom good as new. I think we've all learned a little bit about respecting each other arguments and ourselves to peter shirley said before the freeze frame high five and the end credits. How about more. Miracle okay okay. So in the frescoes in the basilica sent throw a storage. Oh that were uncovered in nineteen fifty to a very weird scene involving saint. peter was revealed. It seems the goodly churchgoers of twelve hundred. And whatever were shocked to discover the basilica statue of mary and the baby. Jesus had become animate. And were yes ed were spouting catherine heresies. Peter was summoned. He arrived carrying a secret weapon when he asked who was haunting the statue. The spirit responded that it was jesus and his mother mary. Of course then. Peter produced a secret weapon he had just delivered a mass and he had tucked a little cracker in his cassock. He presented the consecrated little slice of christ to the statue which instantly grew horns. Both mother and child no longer so tender. And mild and he cast. The manichean mannequin mephistopheles. Back to hell. Wow yeah that's hoping it was going to be chuck e. Jesus almost was so. That's some showmanship right there. That's i would. I would pay to see that. That sounds like a good good show for so on the miracle scorecard that's climate surgical reattachment and ghost. Busting something for everyone. Well maybe everyone. It seems peter peter's anti-catholic crusade and the inquisition. He had been put in charge of prosecuting against them got noticed by the catheters at the height of his stature usa statue saving powers the catholic put out a hit on him. Like how much more telling could this story get you guys. So peter the about to be be martyr was traveling from komo's to milan when he and his traveling companion will be set by two hired. Machetes one named carino of balsamo and his accomplice. The magnificently named men frago clip toro on april twenty six twelve fifty two carino leapt from the shrubbery and struck the mid martyred peter on the head with his machete or what. The italians called a flat shown which i prefer subdividing. The top third in an instant peter fell to his knees and using his open cranium as inkwell wrote the first words of the apostles creed credo and diem in the dirt in his own blood translated as i believe in god dipped his pen and his head his finger. Oh my god. I i think it was bleeding pretty profusely. I think it was thought there was plenty of ink on the ground singh. He had not finished the job. Carino stabbed him in the chest before fleeing leaving. Peter unable to finish his gruesome writing assignment despite his serious and fatal head wound. He is the use sane bolt of the saints a holding the world speed record from death to sainthood that being just eleven months. Really of all the saints of over ten thousand. His state is april. Six april twenty ninth. Shit it's also. June fourth because catholicism both really old and a hot mess and despite his former importance and world speed record incenting. He is the patron saint of three and three things. Only those being the san. Juan suburb of guaynabo. Puerto rico sure sure midwives and for some reason and that ever expanding employment sector of the gig economy inquisitors so for the cultural benefit of our new galactic overlords. There are plenty. More paintings of cleaved peter the martyr to judge us by giovanni bellini's fifty nine the murder of saint peter the martyr peter skull already split lays on the ground while a thirteenth century italian night plunges a dagger into his starched white nightshirt in pedro benguet days version. The saints stands alone in a modest hallway. A tasteful small flat shown in his brain holding a book and a thrice crowned palm frond very homely you want some reading material. If you're going to be if you're going to be machete in the head. Yeah bring a book. I mean if you only got a few minutes left make the most of it. Right in allesandro bongino demaurice ditto. Moroto's fifteen thirty three version. The assassin carino readies to deliver the death blow while cherubs and an angel wait excitedly just overhead not to prevent peter's murder but to deliver him the crown of sainthood after it's over quite pleased the how are they going to put the crown on his head with that. I think you just hang on like a like a coke. You just take the flap. That's been opened up and you push back on. The crown holds everything in place. Snap the crown in athens sticking on each side of the machete and in my favorite fraud jellicoe ghastly slasher film version from his saint. Peter martyr altarpiece. A turkish looking fellow in red is reenacting. The shower scene from psycho in the top of peter's head with a carving knife as blood gushes out everywhere is my working hunch based solely on my supposition that the emissaries of the galactic federation observing only the catholic. Hangul graphic a martyrdom of the italian renaissance contacted one of the three members of the italian space agency. I mean the other two are just part time and said nah. You guys aren't ready for this next level. Shit here's a monolith to hold you over for a bit. Let us know when you're done with magic weatherman with machetes in their heads by. So that's peter the martyr of verona guys collect the whole set that is. Yeah testa yes indeed and this one's nice because because when you when you buy the candle you just lop off. The first the top third of the way threatened the whole when the whole body melted. You have a tiny machete to collect. There's prizes for the kids. So that's it it's the bloody stuff enjoy. let's play. let's move on gentlemen and we. We hear we do this. Show we were right now. We're all sitting alone in rooms just talking to award little black things but we're trying to entertain the masses is what we're trying to do. Yeah and and some of the masses appreciate it so much that they have gone to how to heretic dot com. They've clicked the support us dinghy and they have given us some money. So we have some folks to thank our newest patrons our scope e georgie spinoza. Godzilla and uncle mark. I believe you have someone very special i do. Do we have a very special. Various is a very special episode of blossom and very special friend has been with us for a long long time and he's been on all of our livestreams and everything. He is in Hong kong. I believe is how it said. Yeah and he's the hungriest of all of the But he has he has decided it is time for two to grant himself a heaven via we uncles. Three so it. It's where we are nothing. If not easily bought we are so easily bought and again. We've talked about this. Before there's a price to make this stop mormon incur scientology. Whoever if you wanna make it stop give us a call anyway so to enshrine our friend. Paul i have. I have road the bones and here is your paul starting now. You're heaven dearest. Paul in a day far from now when you breath your last having found yourself on the losing end of a bet. In an underground canasta game with washed up meth dot oled olympic mascots. Who run you to ground outside poussin and beat you to death. With one of those weirdly. Oversized nutcrackers i mean. You knew this was going to happen. When you got mixed up with high stakes canasta. Right you will ascend to your forever. Oppose in a place of unending always renewing bucolic beauty. That's right paul. When you awake free of the searing pain from the blunt force nutcracker trauma. Your eyes are struck by multiple camera flares in the dusty light you find yourself laying and tall golden grass waving lazily around you billy rococo. Clouds drift through the azure sky above. You set up with far more ease than you remember. Your body last. Seen shattered meth out. Mascots is stronger than you remember. Like gaston strong and in fact your guest on like chests strains you're plunging lynn peasant shirt and pantaloons look painted on your legs as they plunge into your knee. High tattered boots assam catches your ear whites. The joyful work song of your fellows the sturdy inhale peasants you now seem to be in the company of come paul come. There is much to be done. They shout and up. You leap your turtle. Body bursting with the strength and vigor was strengthened vigor. It seems there is a field. What needs a scything. And though you had never side on this side of the vale by gum you can sign paul acres of wheat fall fall to your swing as robust women rush behind you to tie them in bundles just like in a brussels painting. What's this dear heavens vineyard in need of harvest and and so you all set to it with gusto singing. Trolley la la hay and hate for la la la the whole time and dear god what utility your massive manley feet. Half stomping the grapes in the golden light of afternoon with a company lasts in the big the great big stompie thing whatever that is as everyone claps alone singing trela. The wagons loaded the barrels bowl. The oxen fed you and your new companion sit rough tables and devour bread and potatoes and beer. As the sun sets the cutlery dances on the tables as you all pound out the rhythm of hatred tra- as the dancing begins. You must admit after a life staring laptop and rushing to meet deadlines. This day of honest. Sustaining rodrigue was fine day. Indeed hey paul. Hey paul your companion shout waking you from your repose in the tall golden wheat wait what the you leap up and see them pulling empty wagons toward bursting fields vines. But didn't we just do those yesterday. You mutter but the singing begins. And who are you to let your. Scythe falls silent during a chorus of trolley. La la and every day is this day. Trial la la heyday in the hey singing. Hey travel hey dear paul the abundance and camaraderie and the work like the harvest never ever ends in this your very own joyously rural heaven from which there is no response and no escape la la. Hey and i just think it's important that everyone understand that most of these are based on my work dreams right except now now my dreams are just being in places where nobody's wearing a mask and how long i can hold my breath so there you go paul. I thank you for your patronage. I hope you enjoy that. There's plenty to eat and plenty to do x. You've become amish all of a sudden so well done and thank you so much for your patronage and if if any of you guys want to be a patron of this fine show you can do so by going to our website Heretic dot com. Click on the stuff. Go to the place do the things and then you give us money. And that's the best thing you can do or you can also go onto a you know one of your various places. You're i tuned podcast. App your stitcher. Whatever and give us a review and if you write a review of you actually happened to write a review as i encourage you to do You never know. I might read it on the air like i'm doing for this. One from burger crunch holy smokes. Who says i finally realized i was in a cult. Unfortunately it took fifty seven years. Burger ranch sorry. Never fear though. Uncles dan doug and mark have brought humor in therapy to help me through the mess. That i'm last okay. Now that sounds right. This podcast is. The most is most excellent episode after episode. Thank you so much burger crunch for that and and please don't see us as therapy. That's terrifying but thanks that's awesome. Thank you for that wonderful review. yes indeed Shall we move on and do some more other. The brain must be kept wet from from hard experience. Which is why we all record from our hot tubs. That's right the brain must be. It doesn't matter what the fluid is. No no no yeah you just don't want it to dry out because then it cracks and that's all i got. I use a lot of chapstick mine. I use a lot of. I use a lot of brain nerve tonic. So uncle dan with that brilliant on the spot there. Sorry i am going. I am going to launch in and let you guys know that. I am a prophet No you skeptics. Probably won't believe me. But god has spoken to me and told me the future. I know what will happen in both the short term and the long term and both of. You should be very ashamed of yourselves. You don't even need to be a prophet to say that we've talked about it on the air. Yes that's true so anyway. You're a killer misdeeds notwithstanding anyone who wants to join my new one hundred percent absolutely unequivocally true religion can start by sending me money once. I determined that you've sent me enough. I'll ask god to give me instructions on what to do from there. Those instructions may or may not be about sending more money We can't until we get there so pony up. Probably i mean let's be real There are lots of reasons why someone might want to become a religious leader a mistake or a prophet my personal guests. Because i'm charitable like jesus. Is that most start out as in green relatively decent people who deep down just want to feel important and powerful and maybe make a little bit of money along the way there are sincere ones. Who honestly who are honestly trying to help. Others and there are cynics who are more interested in serving themselves. You can decide for yourself. How many people belong in each category. But it is my entirely unsubstantiated guests that the groups i just described make up the vast majority of people standing in front of a pulpit pulpit every sunday or saturday or friday whatever but there are some people who arrive at religious leadership and or mysticism and or whatever with a different story. These people are these are people who can honestly tell you that they have experienced something far outside of normal human experience they come to their prophet ship or profit them prophetic ism anyway. Prefer professor prophetic socialism. I think yes indeed. that's latin anyway. Right they come to it through powerful encounters with the divine now for the purposes of this segment. I'm going to talk about. I'm not gonna talk about charlatans who claim to have had mystical experiences that led them into a priestly calling. We should talk about that on the show one time. Though some day we'll get put a pin in that idea. Yes it's not a bad idea for segment we should have. We should have thought of that door. Or podcasts yeah no. We're not talking about those guys who you know who claimed to have had mystical experiences. That led them to a priestly calling but are just using a bullshit story to fleece innocent dupes. They obviously exist and are likely fairly ubiquitous. Though it's impossible to know how common they actually are today. I wanna talk about people who have had seemingly supernatural experiences that led them to where they were. The problem with. This topic is that there are way too many variables to know what has actually happened to another person and what hasn't first of all many of the people that we're going to talk to speculate about are dead. Can't run no tests on dead folks so Everything that we beg to differ. You can run all kinds of tests on dead folks. Not if they don't not of their bodies don't even exist anymore. Okay so everything that we talk about here. while based on science will be guesswork when it's applied to most actual people with that said there are some very real kinds of experiences that human have humans have all the time that could lead them to believe for certain that there is a spiritual mystical or supernatural realm and they have experienced it. I'll start with a story about a friend of mine. She is an artist and a professor. And i've known her on and off since we were about junior high aged About a decade ago she. And i were chatting and she confided in me that she had visions of angels now. She didn't know what to make of them but they happened. I asked a few questions but it was clear she was a little bit uncomfortable. The conversation so we didn't get too far what we did. Get to We're two points. That i thought were fascinating one. She was not willing to dismiss the phenomenon as mere hallucinations and two. She knew that the experiences were caused by or at least spurred on by her. Temporal lobe epilepsy. Oh she was. She was aware of her condition of that condition. She was yeah and wolf. She is not alone people all over this great flatter of ours report similar events when they have seizures in the temporal lobes of their brain and to be honest. Sometimes sounds pretty amazing The simplified version of how this works is this when someone has a seizure. It's kind of like there's a little lightening storm in their brain. It can be localized to one. Part of the brain or zap. All through the whole thing our brains are like extremely elaborate electronic circuit boards and they operate by shooting electronic signals through specific pathways. If you want to raise your coffee cup to your lips your brains and signals to your hand arm shoulder is mouth etcetera at the same time. It's processing a shit ton of incoming signals about how heavy the cup is temperature. Liquid smells etc. It's an insanely complex dance. And it is beautiful during a seizure however a whole bunch of the neurons. That are normally incredibly precise. Just start firing like crazy. This can cause the intense muscle spasms that most of us associate with epilepsy. Psa don't ever put something in someone's mouth when they're having a seizure the heat that especially not your fingers. You could be in real trouble. Well just don't put anything in their mouth. You wouldn't want strangers putting things in your mouth so don't put anything in there to speak no people for a long time. People thought that. That's what you're supposed. Now i know is like you know. Get a get a belt in or get a piece of you know whatever now. We have a relative with a seizure disorder. We're we're we're all down with the epilepsy awesome. But i will say this. The full tonic chronic. What used to be called grand mal. Seizure is actually less common as a kind of seizure there. There are lots of ways that seizures can play out. One of those ways. Is that people like my friend. Experience mild hallucinations or sometimes not mild hallucinations. But along with those hallucinations can come some deeply spiritual feelings. People report feeling like deep. Universal truths are revealed to them during these episodes one woman. I read about talked about understanding the inter. Connectivity of the universe one guy said it felt like someone was feeding beliefs into his brain through a wire many report feelings of joy or well being even if the immediate experience was scary at the time. Some talk about hearing voices. Some have even felt that they encountered god now. We don't know much about why this happens. We do know that the temporal lobe is associated with religiousness in some way a company accomplished neuroscientist. Vs ramachandran did a fascinating experiment where he tested. People's galvanic response skin electricity to various images. He found that when testing people's response to images of normal objects like a pen or a comb that they unsurprisingly didn't have much of a gal galvanic spike then when they saw violent or horrific images. You know big response for people with temporal lobe epilepsy. There were two unique findings. The first was that their response to sexual imagery was very low done why but When showed images of a cross or a star of david or even just the word god or jesus. The ship went through the roof Somehow when you hyper excite the that temporal lobe one possible response is religion now if you were raised with no religious beliefs and this happens to you. You're likely to just have what could be termed a spiritual experience with no particular dogmatic associations if however you're already steeped in a religious framework. Well it's about to get very real for you. This is known as hyper religiosity in clinical circles and is associated with a condition called gachwind syndrome. they are. 'cause there are causes of hyper religiosity. That aren't to do with epilepsy to But see seizure seem to be a major portion of the cases. And here's what's so vexing about it. Even when these people know that they have this condition that is associated with this symptom the feelings and experiences that they're left with are so powerful and so real for them that they frequently conclude that they actually had a brush with the supernatural and the seizure was just the conduit for it There are extreme cases of this one case involved a forty year old man For instance who was admitted to the hospital. He had gone off his seizure medications and was absolutely convinced that all the doctors and nurses were trying to prevent him from attaining salvation. A muslim and kept saying things. Like god is with me and i do not need doctors or medications the sea so the things he experienced through a seizures were more real to him than the trained professionals around him now imagine if he had experienced those same symptoms fifty years earlier would he might have been thrown into an insane asylum or five hundred ninety years earlier or four hundred fourteen hundred and forty years earlier or two thousand or twenty four hundred years earlier why those specific amounts of years. You ask uncles well you scillies. That's because when that's when a few famous people throughout history who very likely might have suffered from the same condition lived now five hundred and ninety years ago. A young peasant gone. France was helping charles the seventh become king. After visits from the archangel michael saint margaret and saint catherine of alexandria the voices that joan of arc heard and the events that she described surrounding those visits were consistent with Temporal lobe epilepsy. As we're the visitations for fourteen hundred and forty ish years ago of archangel gabriel to a forty year old guy in a cave outside the city of mecca study study of descriptions of mohammed from the have led scholars and scientists to say that he likely had the same types of seizures. Seizures are certainly possible in the case of a certain moment for saint paul as he minded his own business while traveling down on traveling on a business trip to damascus. And you'll remember a couple of a couple of weeks ago when i talked about demons. Well we get that word from the latin word damon which comes from the greek word diamond which means roughly deity. One ancient greek was apparently visited by diammonium which translates just a divine something. This was a voice that would warn him about mistakes. He was making socrates. Didn't believe in the gods of his time but was and was forced to drink poison because of the spiritual entity that he did believe in which was probably just an audio hallucination caused by his brain going zappia every now and then So while there are plenty of lying assholes out there looking to fleece a bunch a sheep. Let's take a moment to spare thought for those who are genuinely convinced that they have that they're having a divining counter. You know their brains go on the fritz. Yes for sure i mean. That's that's it's a great point that there are people who truly believe they have had these divine visitations and visions and and heard voices. And you know like joan of arc would probably go ahead and get set on fire. Not denying them right. Yeah exactly we so easy for for we snooty atheists to dismiss the religious experiences of others not knowing that you know whether or not they actually. They may have had some very profound experience. That isn't what they thought it was but but it's nevertheless still vitally important to them. Yeah for sure no. That's that's really fascinating. We've we've talked plenty about what we would consider. I mean we would consider all of them to be false. Prophets technically correct but but people that are just total shysters. We've talked about plenty of times on the show but it's really an interesting phenomenon that that there are. Those people are like no. This actually fucking happened. I saw the senate including your friend who knew why she was seeing the things she was seeing. Yep but still found them kind of profound experiences right. Yeah and and i can understand why when someone experiences something that feels deeply profound. The feels like they've gotten some sort of access to knowledge or information that they never had before their brain has made connections that you know that are well beyond anything that they ever that they had ever thought before i can understand saying and plus literally visually seeing beings external from yourself with your own eyes or hearing them with your own ears. I understand thinking maybe something. Maybe this is more than just me. Maybe this is bigger than just me. Maybe something real is happening. I don't know if we've talked about this on the show before. But i am a. I've talked about being a migraine sufferer. And they've kind of come and gone through the course of my life but there is with the latest batch. There is a very occasional thing that happens. I think it's happened two or three times where after it's passed there is a an absolutely real set of experiences in my head set of memories that i just learned like. Oh this i don't remember remember. I don't remember these things happening. And when i think about them for a while i'm like will that. Never lets so for instance. I literally had a memory as like. It really happened like we're talking right now. That barack obama called me and said hey. Do you wanna go to the kings game with me. And i was like oh fuck. I'm in toronto. But let me see if i can like figure it out. Yeah i'd love to do. Let's i haven't seen you in a lie. Like i've never met barack obama right as far as i know he does not have my telephone number. I have no interest in seeing the la kings fucking hockey team but it certainly go with him. That'd be fun but it was as real as real could be a took me like twenty four hours to convince myself it hadn't happened right so i'm irrational uncle mark and but it was because of a you know a neurological condition. There was a memory that was as real as any other ever had in my head. And i had to go through my life to convince myself. No that didn't happen. Well you know memory and brains are far more plastic and malleable than we want them. Then we want to admit that they are. This is a similar experience but very not from a migraine or something like that. I had a dream in my dream. a friend of mine murdered somebody And reached out to me. And i helped my friend dispose of the body wrapped in carpet. And i think we've dumpster admitted to enough. I mean it was. It was a bad dream. Obviously but in the dream. I went home and went to bed and then i woke up in real life and it wasn't a long time but it was a scary few minutes considering what i had just done right until i like. Oh my god that didn't happen. That didn't happen but but my memory of it was very vivid and very clear And and that's just a dream. I'm agreeing with you. Ankle dan that the that memory is such a fickle mistress. Yeah things it's our brains are so fucked up that i'm actually. I've actually become convinced that eyewitness testimony should always be taken with a deep grain of salt. It should not be like it's the slam dunk. That every prosecutor wants men we as a society should be abandoning eyewitness testimony as almost worthless now. The science around eyewitness testimony says now yeah right is. It is incredibly unreliable. I i Somebody threw a rock through my neighbor's window a few weeks ago. Right and i had. I had seen one person walking by somebody just anyway. And when the police came. I started describing what i felt like i had seen and then i started realizing. I don't think i really got that. Good a look at him right you know. I think i'm relying on what i heard. Other people say and. I was right by the person that i had in. My mind's eye was not the person that when they looked at the security camera. It was not the person who did it right and it was. That was like minutes later. Twenty minutes later right so memories weird. Yeah so so. The human brain can manufacture amazing things. And maybe you know maybe we'll have to. I'll have to do a segment. Maybe next week or or sometime soon about other ways in which our human brains can be can be convinced that they've they've had a religious experience win. Indeed no i mean you know. The person has experienced something profound and religious. But it wasn't from anything but your own silly little brain. We joke about the we one time on the show. It's actually several times talked about what it would take to believe again and I i one of might have been me. Said something effect of if i had if i actually saw angel. Descend from heaven and speak to me. The first thing i would do would be to go to the hospital. Yeah is it. The most likely scenario is that my complex and very imperfect brain is playing tricks on me. Go go get you know. Have them look under the hood. And if everything's okay be like all right now after consider. We talked about this when we talked about the religious experience along. Remember what episode. And the god helmet how they were able to stimulate parts of the brain the frontal lobe. I guess dan to Have people experienced deep feelings and some of them small number even felt like they felt the presence of god and the room. When i was reading up on that there are. There was a study of vietnam veterans. Who had suffered a very particular sort of brain trauma and for the rest of their lives. They felt like they were experiencing some sort of divine presence etc right spiritual experiences. So and why would you wanna take that away like the you know if you have that experience if you you know if you had a brain trauma and then from then on something. That felt beautiful was happening happening to you. I think it. I can see why a lot of people would be like yeah. You're not gonna convince me otherwise. I love that thing. I don't want it to go away. But i mean the the son of sam right that. That's the counter example. He was kicked a hundred percent convinced that a dog told him to kill people. Didn't he didn't he. Recant that seemed to. I don't know said on. I made that all. But i can't remember exactly the point being that. Not all of these experiences are are beautiful. Some of them are scarier. Some of them pushed your in bad directions. Yeah sure you know if it points people to you know magical mystical beliefs. Religious beliefs is eight. That's a bad direction. I say you're getting. You're getting bad info bro. Or if you know if it causes you to foment basically a french civil war and then you end up getting burned to death. It's maybe it didn't serve you as well as you. Were hoping to think it through a little bit right. Yeah all right all right. Well that's That frontal lobe epilepsy. I guess no. That's temporarily liberal loving. She's sorry and Yeah it's it's not in the front. It's on the sides so Keep keep your brains in check and let's move on. Yeah i gotta go. Because i've got to hit the kings game with barack obama so dr well friends that is it for this week show. Hey we'd love to hear from you if you've ever had a machete in your head send us an email at. How would how heretic dot com or if you ever accidentally started a french civil war Leave us a voicemail about nine. Three eight eight two which is at nine. Oh three eight four six nine eight six. I'm also on twitter at out to hair thick and thanks again to our awesome patriot's and thanks to our patron saint lady show and thank you dear friends for tuning in by friends.