9 Episode results for "Isle Of Wight"
Introductory Note: Sarah Flower Adams
"Introductory note Sarah Fuller flower Adams an English poetess and hymn writer was born at Great Harlow Essex, February 22nd 1805 married in 1834 took William Bridges Adams and died in August. 1848. Her principal work is Vidya perpetua 1841 a dramatic poem couch throughout in a fine a strain of impassioned emotion. It symbolizes in the guise of viviers conversion to Christianity The Writer's own Devotion to the high ideals, which inspired her life. The Royal Palm is a long poem on the surrender of the Isle of Wight to Edward the first appeared in 1845 her hymns composed for use in the services at Finsbury Chapel set to music by her sister Eliza flower and hardly be surpassed as simple expressions of pure and passionate devotional feeling the lines beginning. He sent his son he sendeth shower. 1841 are Exquisite in their Blended fervor and resignation her best own him Nearer My God to thee 1841 which has been often erroneously attributed to Harriet Beecher Stowe is sung wherever the English language is spoken her other hymns. Most of which have come into common use our part in peace. Christ's life was peace Creator Spirit gently fold. The dues sing to the Lord Darkness shrouded Calvary go and watch the Autumn Leaves the month honors came at break of day. Oh, I would sing O hallowed memories. Oh love they'll make us all things even part in peace is the day before us off the world may change and a rendering of fennel ons living or dying Lord. I would be Vine.
S13E09 Breaking mirrors
"And welcome to Boonchu podcast season. Thirteen episode nine Recorded on the nineteenth of May. I'm Alan I hope you're doing well. I'm joined once again by my compadres. Marc Hallerberg Hayden. I am also doing well. Thank you good. Good and Martin are you. Yes a little bit sweaty but other than that finds big warmness evening. Don't you think it is close as my never had anyone else school womb day? Close of the my mum. But yes Sarah what you've been out to mark. I have been getting a little bit older. And hopefully it'll be wiser. Oh what happened? It was my birthday. I'm rebirth. Thank you twelve. Yes any nice presents like sponsorship of a donkey sanctuary or something. Did you get? I got some beer and some chocolates and some out just to buy games and books and the kind of things that you get. When you're in your thirties. In don't need lots of toys anymore. Getting used as vouchers by the All PG games with rogue like elements. I dabble thing is highly unlikely unless unless it was vouches for board games now and masking next year exit. Twelve congratulations on clean to the rock orbiting. A son. Well done well done you. Many happy returns and multi. And what have you been doing I? You haven't been getting older have you? Well I have been getting old not year old. Just older got longer ahead. Long Grey hair also the longer my hair gets the more distinctive gets the strangest phenomenon. Say I never noticed. You had a bolt spot Martin. Yeah well you flatter me because I know that's true concert from here no because I've already got front on view with welcome. Yeah Well No. I've been occupy my time working only studios snap don. This is a labor of love isn't it? It has been I think about done with laboring on it now but I have given a lot of love for sure. I'm quite pleased with it. Sight taking advantage of one of the unique qualities of snaps. Which is you can put whatever you please inside it. I I've been doing live streaming as I mentioned a couple of episodes go all of a using UBS for that. And I watch some youtube videos on like essential plug ins to make your stream better and faster stronger. All of those things and turns out. Most of those plug ins are available for Lennox. So I've been adding a collection of plug ins into the studios. Snap so you get like this matter. Reason included version of studio now lies. It's interesting the people do have quite a lot of plug ins they add. There's like the base functionality. Which is you can recall the screen and stream then as his whole bunch of stuff that people stack on top to make a richer experience and integrate with twitch and Youtube. And all this stuff the way beyond my capabilities I know you've turned expert mode streamer over the last few months but I figured out the tools I don't think I've figured out the presentation production values yet but hopefully having an ob s with like twenty plug ins and it'll be good so there's a unique advantage. The snap has the browser plug in. That was a new feature for the Lenox version of twenty five. And it's not available. You know In the archive and in say the snap has that and then. Impo overlay. So you can do controller. Overlays Walston stuff so as you're playing the game you can see the key presses and button presses of your controllers delays on the screen. One could move transition. Which does these really cool animations if you have the same element in different things it will do. These nice sweeping animations as that element moves between the scene. Transitions there's some really cool stuff and then like the end. Nda plugging which is the current hotness and then the virtual Webcam staff and then web sockets so you can install remote control apps on your phone and do like stream deck stuff using APPs on your phone. So the whole thing's really cool. I noticed is a DVD screensaver. Plugin that sounds you. So he's the most memo. Were the plug in the I did. Yes seriously. This is just like the balancing. Dvd is when the corner. Yeah the the really actually just says will it hit the Kony? Does I think we've paid but let's try and do the rest of the show. Anyway look at some of the news and events that have been going around in the ability community and first off I found a boon to you. Twenty four lts now certified on the row spree Pie. They've been images around for their Ostra Pie for what I haven't there've been to What does it mean to be? Surtees is certified on it. Means it has factory level assurances from us the is guaranteed to work as opposed to random download. That may or may not work. It's his through. Qa Yeah yeah exactly. I mean random download that may or may not work see into dot org for the rows back for example put together by some King Bedroom for fun verses you know actually Guaranteed to functional work reliably incorrectly across. It's the two three and full that were certifying. The moment Yeah it really is so you know. One of the series of live streams. I've been doing is taking those images and writing a tool that converts it into you know converts the server into a desktop operating system and the into on the Ross replies. A very different thing today than where it was even a year ago. You know it's it's really robust and well-supported and there's lots of cool new things coming along as well. I'm looking forward to this cycle. We got some interesting stuff with doing on the Pie. And just the the blog post has a screech out is written by Reece Davis. Who is a product manager canonical? And the screen shot. That's in the Blow post is of the Ross Pie images which is a piece of software. The Reply Foundation made a little while ago. it's a bit like at any of these other things that he used to put an image on an St card. And I made a snap of that and published it in the store and the Nice thing is about this which makes it different from many other flashing tools is you just pointed at the St Card And when you say selective edge it provides a pre filled list of light raspy and open a leg and a boon to is in narrows well obviously and a whole bunch of other images so you could just paying from a list and then just hit the right button and it will download the image and then stuff onto the cards make it super easy for people who just want to an image honesty card for Pie. I really liked that. Roger play image. I use it all the time. In fact it's even more clever than you've just described because it doesn't download and then writer it streams as it downloads. It right set really. Yep Wow then realize I know neither did I until I was like hang on a minute? This seems to be doing something and downloaded anything. So poke around in the code. Yeah it's pretty cool. That's really nice. What'S NEXT MONK? Well things not dead news. Unity is not dead. Thanks to unity. Remix RELEASE. Yes so were have been a few attempts making a balloon to unity. Remakes is a few people making spins responding. This one. Could you mix which is a bit customized and has like multi version that looks a bit like unity as well as a unity desktop. But this one is designed to be a vanilla just unity experience. I think yeah I tried it out. Spent Alpina VM. And it's you know just like it was few days ago. It doesn't look an awful or different. Obey the same and it's all built from everything in the archive is no. Ppa's additional software. Bundle on there is literally just like having a gun to forty four. But bill alm the latest colonel and having the latest repositories and lady. Software is quite a tugs at the old heartstrings. Who really enjoy using unity. That's interesting because I've not tried out yet. But you know. Unity is an interesting remix. Because unlike the other flavors you don't really have to decide what it should be because that's all defined and. I think unlike is you. Mix the other one you know just sticking with that tried and tested formularies the right thing to do. Because if you've got that you can just focus on quality you know elsewhere Rob Van you know deciding what you default APPs going to be. What should default theme going to be all that sort of thing? Just you know just reproduce what went before and also the amount of work involved in making. This wasn't as significant as it might have been for other flavors or remixes rather where they have to pull together software and maybe package it and put. Npa and maybe try and get in Debbie and and then try and get into. That don't have to do that because he's already there really. It's a lot of work he's done for them and the thing that I really like about this is it was made by a young chap who is ten years old now. Yeah that's that's I really like is the. There is a younger generation coming through her excited to create things. Make things okay. He's remaking a desktop from before he was born not makes us feel old clough. How are we doing this forecast? Yeah exactly yeah so that's cool anyway. What's spotting well? There was an interesting article out this week. The that pose. The question is should Microsoft by canonical. How that own Jessica yes? It's time to come round again. It's quite an interesting raid. is it quick Chris Pitchman I think he pronounce his name From build five nines Dot Com wrote up a rather good so of insightful Pace the was more deep than most of these questions. They really so put some thought in it and just click by. Yeah so so I mean mark. You've read this. What do you think do you think Mike? Social by nautical. I'll reserve judgment on that but now I think just some of the things that he explores her interesting. I mean there's the office things about a very popular. What is your and they're doing. Wfl But then he also looks at things like if it happened. How much might they pay for it? Based on what they paid for things. Like get hub when you look what canonical revenue is and how that scaled up when they bought other things and also talks a bit about whether Marshall Worth would remain a see if Microsoft by and if not what would his role be would he have some sort of leadership role within Microsoft instead already. Just take all the money and go to space. Can who knows I think the thing I find fascinating about this is usually comes up as a either April fools joke or the reverse April fools joke which is can run cool by Microsoft Rightey jerk articles all people writing semi serious articles about. I think this is the best one. So far like he's he's actually put some four into. It's a little bit better than most of them but People keep asking when these articles come out. They poke people who work for can articles. I always gonNA happen. You'll get to yoga. How would it feel if you were working for Microsoft? They always poses questions and I also have no idea. This is all obviously way above my pay grade. Get sure they could be conversations between people at these companies like. There's no way I would know that. Yeah I mean the should make Safai canonical. I mean the article does say this unlike every other article on this topic before which is designing one person that cannot whether this would happen. That mark because canonical as privately held and so it would all be down to him. And I'd be amazed if people have approached mark over the years spent in out trying to make speculative acquisitions. Well people have a word with me on occasion. Biologists and you never know what they've offered either know whether it's been the three billion or two pound fifty and Alpha Panda Grapes somewhere in between. Who knows anyway next up own G of until you have an article about system seventy six? Papua's twenty four and the title is twenty. Four is here and it boasts new features one of the main. I think the main feature that I think has been touted. His the tiling window extension allows you to do really easily. Carve your screen up into the different applications. You have open which seems to become popular again. I don't know what it is whether it's a resurgence of nerds. Who liked tiny window managers or whether I three and Dwa M. G? Thailand will these ways in which you can do tiling just just got better or they've just been more prominent. Maybe marketing is the marketing department is doing really well right now and a lot of people like this. I think it's a bit like I use vim and you make that statement as a badge of all no because you have mastered how to use them on. I feel like It's a bit like I only use free software another badge of honor and I think the current badge of raise a tiling window manager. Because I'M PAL. I just feel like that is a movement within the Lennox enthusiast community. That isn't like fresh new. It's been building over the loss of eighteen months or so you know they. They regularity with which tiling wind I managed is crop up on videos on Youtube and library. He's is trending up. You know it's definitely a thing. People are into right now. Yeah says the main thing that everyone seems to focused on their other additional things over and above what a boon to provide as the base. 'cause obviously Percy's based on the to they have a a repository of their own which is like a PPA which has additional packages all packages which are newer than the ones that we should have been too because we have. I think because of the process in into sometimes packages take like a week to land but because the system seventy six people have their own. Pa They can just Ninja packages straight into that PPA super fast and deliver it arguably faster than us with a whether you prefer that one. Oh yeah some people like the idea of move fast and break things and other people like Qa shade pulp. I'm just having a bit of a joke but yeah it seems relatively popular. There's a lot of people talking about it and that's great next up. Ub Pause opiate. Twelve release is out so this is the next upgrade of the ports up into touch for phones and it is integrating the lost of canonical unity. Eight developments so. I'm not sure exactly how that process worked. But apparently when canonical stopped developing talk there was some things in unity which weren't in touch even though touch was using unique feature branches. The happened being merged into master to release. And I think it was depending on like technology such as you know mayor and system day and stuff like that malaise features hadn't landed yet a now. Ub of Donald of that work. They're able to now go back to those features and bring them in our so stuff which moved faster on. The desktop hand caught up on phones. The reasons it's hard to do things on the underlying stuff is now all there right so this includes a new version of mayor which crucially think supports Wayland Apps now as well so that could mean that we see more more Coming to the phone in the future Without them having to be specially developed assistant appropriate time to point out that Mary still alive. I think that was employed. We've already had one thing is not dead yet disaster. We overloaded with to stick. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I updated my One plus one that has a touch on it and yet the upgrade went through fine was difference. I didn't she says difference but all I did was updated because I was tidying up. I thought what's on that that's going win too so I just charged up enough. I could update it and then put back in his box. I don't actually. I don't have time to play with at the moment But I do out every so often. I have a game of machines versus machines which is the best game on touch written by Michael Zanetti was one of the developers on t touch. And it's a a great What do you call them tower? Defense Game Is What catchy? Music and It's when you put it on the heart levels it's it's quite frustratingly hard to play in some of the later levels so the if you've got a an to touch devices stool machines machines. It's worth playing. It's good fun and I'm sure there's lots of other things in touch this great but that's the big thing on play on Final item in the community. Use Bonk Martin Sorry Microsoft have announced at their build conference. That W sal is going to get support fill gaps but more importantly GP pals through. This is the thing that's been awful since day. One of w salad do all kinds of tricks. In order to display graphical applications launched from wfl. Now he's coming officially yes. It is You know now I have some insight on this One of my roles is leading up the team that looks off the WS selling canonical and Hayden. Patrick have been working towards they. You know wanting to get here. Microsoft of Decided that they are going to implement this as an official capability but the GPO pass through is as you can probably imagine. Mostly that so that you can suppo- compute what clouds mom from the limit the window sub-system for Lennox In so you can run things like you know Cuban not clusters with GP eupol Serie. So you can get access to all of that. Commodity developed a tooling that we have in Lennox and then run their own windows. So these fun things that we see that. Use things like tens of flow right You could potentially run the inside w rather than installing Lennox on the metal. You could have your windows workstation. His stole wfl. And then whatever will you'll wacky am. L. Faint gays and have access to the hardware underneath. Yeah we're working really hard to make sure the Wfl Is just like a boon to anywhere else that you can find a boon to so isn't treated differently doesn't behave differently at condole if the same stuff a Microsoft during the heavy lifting behind the scenes with the hype of a back end in order to make sure that all of those capabilities exist for the destroys that run on top of WFL. It's funny you mentioned the Mike suffering heavy lifting I keep seeing this this Guess online that we are doing all the work and we giving all of this stuff to Microsoft and we are to blame for them. Olympics only windows becoming popular on we did all the heavy lifting and actually there's a team of developers Microsoft working on a number of disciplines. It's not yeah. It's not the way just giving away the family gold to another company. They're spending money on engineers to do this work. It's amazing to think that people think that canonical develop is just you know implement stuff like that in windows right right. I I think I think that the we do the Lennox side. And that's the bulk of the were. I think they think that we are molding a to in order to be Functional under wfl. I'm sure there's a bit whenever I talk to. Martin there are two people on the WFL team and that's not a giant team of developers that we're spending billions all in order to put all technology on windows. Feels LIKE IT'S A? It's a symbiotic relationship and their work as well. Exactly it's Microsoft creating the platform is W. S. L. And we are one of the people are making show will for the great experience on that platform which is as I said trying to make a boon to a boon to when it's on wfl but we have done a lot to make popular. You know we have worked very hard in actually saying that abundant say is available for wwl and look all the cool stuff you can with that so we are helping in that regard. Yes absolutely. I'm not trying to play down. I'm trying to play their part up without okay. That's the end of the committee. She is and now. It's time for proper news. I up in proper use. I was an interesting article I saw. During the rounds this week and it was on the Deana and happy I someone coot at Liam tongue and the had kind of beatty title. Once again you see the title you know exactly what content is going to be It was basically crazy. Microsoft saying we will wrong about open source but luckily you can change so the here is. They've realized they'd come to the realization over at Microsoft. The actually all those negative things they said in the past about the GPL about Lennox and how open source was the right methodology for software development and distribution. You know it turns out. Maybe they weren't right all those years ago and thousand rejoice and said yes we told you so and this is the counter argument to a leopard. Can't change spots. Well clearly they can and have some people just refuse to accept it. Did this feel a bit like to you? Know sometimes countries have come out you know decades hundreds of years after some sort of war atrocity and apologized for the acts of their country retrospect with this feel a little bit light that that they need to put this one to bed. I'm not entirely sure national reparations old here I I'm ensuring we don't go down a certain path of conversation. Fagel think a lot of people figure we're going to go down bounce. There are certainly so the perspective I have is. That is possible if we can pace to change. Don't trust any company they can screw you over but it is possible. Full the direction of accompanies change under different leadership and clearly. They have a different leadership. Even clearly that changed and companies do different things. The the example I give people lease Nacchio was a pulp mill when it first started it didn't make mobile phones and masts and antennas and stuff like that and Nintendo used to make playing cards. That didn't make at six and video games. Companies Change over time. The problem is we're living through it like I didn't live through. Knock knock you being a pulp mill and I didn't live through Nintendo making cards because that was a hundred years ago but I have lived through this and I think that's the problem is the only people who lived through Microsoft being awful and they were Awful austell holding onto those memories still mentioning the whole embrace. Extend extinguish constantly. Yeah I mean that's where I'm coming from so we we. This Lennox is a cancer that that quite from Bulma which is a longer than that but that keeps being tracked down in certain quarters and I wondered if they was like we were wrong. Everyone else was right. Let's just bury that light? Lennox is a cancer statement. is behind us. Now let's move on. I mean it was four years ago. Obama said he was wrong about that statement so but boy is is not a long time and competing. For years ago the ability sixteen four release came out and that's still supported so four years is not tremendously long time next Martin. So so academic supercomputers in Europe have been hacked It ought chest. Supercomputer is the one in question Which you anyone to take guests. What do you suppose happened when these computers got hacked supercomputers Barry Mind so these are very powerful computers that can perform many operations? The second Good at number crunching be crypto mining. Well-done yes yeah apparently Some of these computers have their SSh credentials Compromised and then the attack because within able to island hop across a distributed collection of supercomputing nodes around and developed some crypto mining malware that they had deployed Saja did it masqueraders. System Day by chance it's a well known ruse that one. Yes so people wouldn't have noticed in consuming. It did make me wonder a bit like reading through the story and then so saying. Oh and they installed crypto mining software. 'cause I mean the real impact. This had was shut down quite a lot of research projects which at the moment are probably focused on one thing when it comes to big number crunching but then you say all know they. They were actually crypto. Money seems like that's an obvious way to distract from what might have just been an attempt to disrupt to load of research and then say Haha. Look at what we used to do by you. Stick crypto minding on then. Everyone says. Oh they're obviously. Just trying to crypto. Mind I don't know it does feel like if you're going to bust into some super powerful computers while you're there why fight if you're if you're it always feels like the bad plot of a Hollywood movie where you know someone has a plan to do something and then the last minute while they do an extra little finger just ted like you know punch in the Gut. This could just be that all while I'm here I'll just drop a bitcoin minor earlier. Refined I mean mark alluded to it but the archers supercomputer had recently been installed with pandemic modeling tools was working that particular problem so it has disrupted some raw the timely and important research in other better news though mark. What else has happened? Well the Nhs EX team have released the beat version of their contact tracing APP which includes releasing the source code and a bunch of the documentation on get hub is this the ANDROID and IOS applications. The detect all records the blue chief. Id's of people around you so that in the event that you somebody's determined to have something a can. They can determine who has been there by a which devices in nearby so they can be alert hidden. And you let know to go and seek help exactly. Is that application? That's application so there's several sort of versions of this sort of thing which are being developed around the world and this is the one full the UK which has kind of gone to loanable in that they have taken a centralized approach to recording auto to determining when you should be notified that you might be near someone who was infected on why have been someone who's being fated yes so so the way the The way that apple and Google have collaborated Alden API basically means that your phone will check a database of essentially anonymous. Id's and your apple decide if you have been near one of the ideas which has been flagged as being infected and let you know whereas the way that the this is been determined it should work is the you tell the central database the you've been infected and then does some algorithm and decides. Who should they know that? This has raised some privacy concerns array. Some technical concerns about whether it will be able to work on the devices. If it doesn't do it the way that apple will want you to and there's also been some security auditing done to identify some potential security issues which are both sort of technically issues with them. How things are encrypted potential leaking of additional behavior About what you're doing which might not be what the APP was intended to do. I find the APP interesting. I now that it's on get how I'll be able to file a bug because In the application there's a button you can press to show what the current events is and it shows a blocks that says stay at home social and it gives you the date updated first of May two thousand twenty and then there's another box immediately below that the says this guidance was withdrawn on the eleventh of May Twenty Twenty and gives you a link to the new guidance but that link is not click -able and is not select. -Able you can't. Oh actually you. Can you could copy. And paste that into a browser. Econ actually click on it why. The APP keeps the guidance right in front of you and tells you this. This guidance is out of date. You need to read this other web page over here for the actual It is a bit weird. It's a bit of a strange way to do it. It is only in a trial at the moment and given that you don't own the oil of white. It's not currently intended for you to see you know but the people who are on the isle of wight would see the same thing that I'm seeing. It's the same APP and in fact if someone who was on the of white and was infected and happened to across the Solan and be near me then. I might have the value of having been someone who has has the APP so even if I'm not on the Isle of Wight There's still the potential for benefit anyway. That's the end of the news. Thank you all for joining us for episode nine of season. Thirteen of the two podcast. If you'd like to get in touch between shows please email show into podcast org or join our telegram. Channel Akin to poke CONSTA- org slash telegram. We're running a crown funder at the moment. This is so we can outsource some of the show production and get back to a weekly cadence of podcast releases. You may have noticed that our podcast release schedule has been a bit patchy season thirteen. And we'd like to fix that so if you enjoy the podcast or you find value in it then please head to Patriot dot com forward slash up into podcast and chip in and help us out in any case. We'll be back next week. We'll be discussing wearing the world to people hang out undiscussed a boon to talk A.
OpenAI Launches Its General-Purpose English Tasks API - DTH
"Hey if daily tech headlines helps. You have a super sparkly day. You could support the show directly. Just Click on the Lincoln, the show description and thanks for the support. These are the daily Tech Headlines for Friday June twelve, twenty, twenty I'm rich drop Alina. Opened a I launched its API in Beta, its first commercial offering that could provide a general purpose text in text out interface for English language task, capable of for example, generating dialogues, summarizing a block of text completing code based on function names in translating natural language into UNIX commands developers can show the API a few examples to improve output provide a specific data set for training or provide human labeling. The is available to qualified customers and is free for the first two months open I also pledged to cut off access for obviously harmful use cases such as harassment, spam, radicalization, or ASTROTURF ING. So in a revealed the design of the black and white playstation five, which will come in two versions one with four k. blu-ray drive any pure digital edition. The console can sit vertically orange side and includes USB and USB seaports on the front with the heat vent at the top one in the vertical position, so also revealed accessories with the PS five including dual sense, charging station for controllers, a new HD camera, a post, three D., wireless headset, and media, remote pricing and release dates of the council and accessories were not announced. Applicant firm. It's virtual ww DC, twenty twenty event, starting on June twenty second will include a keynote address platform state of the Union one hundred plus engineering sessions, all-new develop performs one-on-one labs with more than one thousand apple engineers in more, the keynote will stream directly from Apple Park. The, intercept reports that according to sources at an internal presentation on Wednesday of a new feature for facebook workplace, the company's t messaging platform facebook showed off a new content moderation feature that lets adleman remove or block certain trending topics with blacklist among employees. facebook used the word unionized as an example in the slide deck. The presentation was subsequently deleted and worked as product manager carrot deep and stayed at about the example, censoring users is not the purpose of this feature and workplaces. Ambition is to give everyone a voice while maintaining respectful work environment. Aguirre after he quit his position at the company over differences with CEO Mark Zuckerberg over facebook's direction. Chris Cox is returning to facebook as its chief product officer. Facebook says Cox will resume. His duties include overseeing the core facebook APP. MESSENGER INSTAGRAM and WHATSAPP along with marketing. Twitching outs, we'll start automatically. Scanning clips of live streams for copyrighted music, following a recent wave of DMC a takedown requests twitch, says clubs will be automatically deleted and won't strikes or penalties for creators, no appeals plan for clip. Deletion was announced which already scans complete streams for copyrighted music, but not for clips which are largely fan generated, which also plans to give users the ability to delete all clips from a channel at once. The Internet archive announced in a blog post that has ended its national emergency library programs two weeks earlier than originally scheduled due to an ongoing commercial publisher lawsuit. The Internet archive will revert to a controlled digital lending model. It's been using for almost a decade part of March. We're only one person can digitally check out a book for each physical copy. The library has in stock. The, UK competition and Markets Authority announce it launched an investigation into facebook. Of, Giddy, the investigation will look specifically at how and if the deal will lessen competition and the two companies respective markets while the investigation is ongoing, facebook can continue any actions related to the acquisition without written consent of the. Last month, facebook announced it planned to buy gifts for four hundred million dollars. The UK postponed to test of the second version of its contact tracing on the isle of wight. The BBC sources say the APP is having difficulty using Bluetooth to estimate distance. Ministers are reportedly considering switching to making an APP that works with the exposure notification platform developed by apple and Google. Snapchat made a number of announcements during its annual developer event, Thursday lends voice search will let you ask the APP to find filters that do something like change your hair, or take you to the moon, for example, snapchat also announced partnerships with plant, snap and dog scanner to identify plants and dogs with the camera snapchat. Snap Mel? Meanwhile, let's developers bring their own neural net models to transform the environment in images. Local. Lens is geography specific ar system that will use public snaps to help create three maps of the real world. This will enable persistent a are in larger public areas. and New. Design for snapchat adds an action bar at the bottom. They'll make navigation more clear and change based on what screen you're on snap map for instance will appear to the left for the chat screen. The map introduced places that lets you find local businesses and other locations and find out info or even order food in the US. Snap also announced new snap originals from ESPN and be Universal Viacom CBS the NBA and the NFL with viewers in the millions. And finally apple has removed pocket cash from the APP store in China. Saying the cyberspace, administration of China Determined. The podcast APP could be used to access illegal content in the country. Apple informed podcast of the decision two days before the removal, suggesting podcast should contact China to find out what content considered objectionable podcast says it believes podcasting should be free of government censorship and will not take content at China's request. The Castro podcast APP was pulled from the Chinese APP store a June sixth. Remember for discussion of the news of the day. Subscribe to take new show at new show dot, com and remember to rate and review headlines. Wherever. You get your podcast. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time and from all of us here at daily, Tech headlines Remember. Have a super sparkly day.
Covid-19 ethics: digital contact tracing (part 2)
"The Guardian. High it science weekday producer Madeline here. Today. You'll be hearing the second part of conversation. We recorded back in late July with usual host in sample alongside to experts looking at the ethical questions, surrounding track and trace APPs. If you miss one Tuesday's episode. It's worth going back to listen. In, the UK as well as many other countries, the pandemic has highlighted several of the economic health and social disparities minorities face. In, England. For example, one survey found over the course of lockdown black Asian and minority ethnic people were fifty four percent more likely than white people to be fined under corona virus rules for alleged breaches. When it comes to track and trace ops the question remains how these often unseen prejudices will manifest themselves. Good an APP increase the surveillance of minority communities. How would a parent or a zero hour contract? If the APP told them to self isolate. And sufficient trust in the government for enough people to download and use attracting trace up. It's clear that as a strong sense of solidarity against people in terms of adherence to measures that would enable the pandemic response and I think we all know that early from seeing how widespread compliance social isolation and look down has been but I think that applications such a new type of technology that we don't really have that behavioral research yet to show us what are the factors that play into whether somebody uses at an added to its instructions. Welcome Designs Week. Advantage I, guess of the UK sort of stumbling quite badly through this pandemic so far is that other countries? On, a good number of things are ahead of us and I'm wondering. Whether other countries have worked out the best model to US I mean, it's the only one who either view maybe give us a little taste of what what is going on elsewhere in the world as a quick reminder in was joined by the Director of the ADA lovelace institute, Carly kind and the voice. You'll hear next seat depending Ghangadharan, an associate professor in media. And Communications at the London School of Economics I have been really intrigued by track and trace including digital track and trace in the Taiwanese context and one of the things that really interests me about the case of Taiwan is because of the SARS outbreak in the early two thousands, the Taiwanese government passed a Disease Control Act I think it was in two thousand three. That then sort of kicked into place infrastructure for dealing with pandemics and in the. Aftermath of that I think there has been a really vibrant debate about health surveillance, its merits what is going too far You know what is at risk for time when you citizens and this has lasted you know a good sixteen seventeen years since the passage of this act and it's still ongoing. and. It's very contentious and yet what I draw from it is that you have sort of system that seems to at least from the outside it does really feel like it's robust. The public has an expectation and they have a degree of trust. I think confidence in government and civil society and the industry to kind of work together to make track and trace a success and I think we have seen transmission rates are really low in the timing these context the fairness of the comparison might be debatable because it is a relatively smaller population than say what you're seeing in the United States but I think the fact that there has already been in place this broad dialogue as to what should we expect from How can that really improve an augment our public health infrastructure? I think I think there's a lesson to be learned from. Can I come in with just a couple of other countries although I think see to was so right spring up, Taiwan it's a great case study. We've been tracking a very high level, the basis, just a news reporting the successive. Digital contact, tracing APPs and other countries, and what we can say so far is very few countries have found widespread tie cup of digital contact tracing us and certainly not at the level that the modeling don the K. Shade would be necessary to have a effective pandemic suppression as the result of contact tracing ops in Australia. Iceland and I think no way of the countries with the highest uptake at around fit between thirty five and forty percent of the population. So nowhere near the consent that we have seen argued here would be necessary. Interesting in the Isle of wight where they trailed the HSA there was also forty percent of the population downloaded the APP. None of these countries have we seen claims being made that the is being a decisive factor in their response most countries have said that it is a compliment, only menu contact tracing but that it hasn't been a game changer in any respect in Australia I think the statistics of it the APP has not been used to identify any contacts that went otherwise nine to manual contact traces. And so I think broadly speaking, we can see in countries that have had a quite quite successful response to the pandemic. It is more through a very thorough manual contact tracing regime, which by the way raises its earn privacy considerations at a very apt example there is South Korea which has. Extensive manual contact tracing regime that involves going through see TV records, credit card details using text messages to let people that there's someone in that neighborhood who is infected with the disease. So it's not that many tracing is the privacy friendly way of doing but certainly, evidence seems to suggest the more effective way than using an APP for a explosion education. And do we know why? Those countries are not getting the uptake of those APPs. I mean is it concerns over privacy to those concerns seem to be sort of a dominant factor or is it things just like laziness and just not not getting around to all these very human reasons things don't happen I don't know I think there's there's an interesting research to be done in terms of what type of messaging has been affected around. Getting people to download the APP. It's clear that as a strong sense of solidarity against people in terms of appearance to measures that would enable the pandemic response and I think we all know that anecdotally from seeing how widespread compliance is social isolation in lockdown has been but I think over countries that I mentioned even those countries with relatively high uptake of the APP you have countries that with very strong. Kind of citizen government ties a country, like Singapore, for example, whether as a high level of state involvement in individuals lives even there you still haven't seen what you might have expected to be a widespread compliance with encouragement to download the APP. So I think there is an interesting question about that. It probably relates to what we don't yet know about how people use APPs more broadly and how they comply with things that apps tell them and and how much trust they have enough. So I, think. Applications as such a new type of technology that we don't really have that behavioral research yet to show us what are the factors that play into whether somebody uses an entity is to its instructions. So. From her stoorikhel perspective, I think that there's a really good chance that populations that have already been over surveilled are less likely to make use of such an APP, and that creates all sorts of problems. So I'll take the United States as an example, right? If you're already surveilled because you're poor in your person of color, you're black, you might encounter surveillance. If you're a young adult, you might encounter surveillance in the schools. You certainly encounter surveillance on the streets. by over policing, you encounter a type of surveillance if you need healthcare that often involves. Healthcare to questions of criminality right? If if you're in that sort of context. You the likelihood that you're gonNA download that APP has to be really low why which you in that context where you have very low reason to to trust certain institutions that say they're supposed to. Care about you and. Provide you welfare, but they don't right. Why? Why would you send that? Apple is GonNa do the trick. Of, course we know the that there's at least some correlation between communities that have been placed in surveilled and death disparities around code as well. So in terms of the up reaching those most vulnerable to the disease, we know that people from black and minority ethnic backgrounds are twice as likely to die from covid and they're also. More. Likely to have had historical experiences structural racism in a replacing surveillance which undermines public trusses. See two point. If we do see APP emerge in the UK and it does end up with. A decent uptake which I know a two very big IFS. We are presumably going to see issues arise in those parts of the population who who don't have access to the technology who can use it right that there may be a point where people disadvantaged by not taking it up, which may be a problem in itself but what sort of problems might we see? We've pointed out is the problem that around twenty percent of the population don't have the smartphone will use one regularly, and so any system built as an act I will small find fest system has to take people into account provide them other measures main for communicating with health authorities importantly in the context of carpet. Again, the same people who don't have smartphones other is more likely to be affected adversely by the virus thinking particularly of elderly people. and. There's a big question there about is this the most effective way to do the job we want to do using an APP or with some other approach Betta in Singapore. They have decided to stop rolling out blue cheese tokens. So small little pieces of plastic that you might wear around your neck that would function in the place of a smartphone doing that type of exposure notification I'm sure such thing is under consideration in the NHL as well, but it would be super important to think about digital exclusion and he's on the wrong side of the digital divide in how they benefit from technology such as this. There's no doubt in my mind that digital exclusion is something that exacerbates existing inequities whether that's health inequities or public safety inequities or education inequities. and making a contact tracing APP compulsory without addressing. The fact that. There is. A lack of. Broadband infrastructure. Including mobile broadband infrastructure. The certain populations actually can't effectively make meaningful use of devices and computers. There are still a lot of questions about how people come to technology and how they incorporate technology into their everyday lives. So I, would say that if contact tracing is made, compulsory will see a spike in those inequities for sure. Now, that probably means that we need to not only be focusing on technological solution but a solution that addresses support infrastructures more broadly. When people don't have choice about how they want to incorporate technology into their everyday lives. That's one way start to see problems. That's when we see trusts unraveling. That's when we see a sort of contentiousness or a conflict arise between the therapies and citizens. It's this idea that you're forced into a box that you have to use technology in a particular way and and We know that that's not right right that we should have choice because that connects to our well-being and so unless that's something that's in place choice, we're not gonNA support people's capacity to live lives they wished to lead right that they have reason to value. That ric continuing marginalisation in communities. Just to add to that with the. Evidence, on on my side, I agree with everything said, we did this public deliberation we found that of the thirty members of the public who engaged with and they raise many concerns and issues and questions around these the APP almost all of them said that they would download the APP and in fact, over the course of the deliberation more people came to think that they would download the APP and had at the beginning even though they explored many of the problems and they add many of the problems. But one thing they all agreed on even though they said, almost them said, they would download the APP. was that they thought it would absolutely have to voluntary that a mandatory APP would undermine any sensitive of solidarity that people felt in coming. In helping out by using these APPs even those who are inclined to download the still wanted to volunteer s still want to have that choice. And do you think that people were? Increasingly happy or saying there be increasingly happy to download the APP because they saw some moral dot in doing that rather than actually they suddenly trusted the system or trusted behind Capri four or what have you. That's a really good question I. I wish we'd gone into the reasons for the changing opinions on that. I suspect it was through having been involved in a very detailed conversation about all the elements of the APP. That increase that trust in the system or at least made them feel like informed uses of it you know we spent probably a title of maybe ten. To twelve hours with them talking about this APP which is a lot more than most people have spent thinking about this with the exception present company and so I think just that says becoming an informed citizen around technology makes you feel more empowered and I think probably people ended up feeling like at least give it a shot knowing what they knew about it now. And see if you had an APP like this, I don't know if that would be any possibility at all of it being made compulsory but you worked with the impact of data technologies in marginalized communities. You see issues coming up loner there. I do wonder if. Contact tracing is made compulsory, right you need to have downloaded the APP to enter a store you need to have downloaded the APP to enter a restaurant. I can see one potential side effect. For example, mutual aid societies might start to expand the support and care that they provide to local communities. Right. So it's not just about delivering groceries anymore it might be about creating different spaces for sociology to occur right that you don't have to. We can work around this compulsory this coercive system that's being put into place, and that might be an interesting innovation one that will eventually push a political transformation, but that's really hard to predict. Throughout this crisis, we've seen how this pandemic has really exposed magnified inequalities in society and I'm wondering is, is there no way or is there any way that an APP like this could actually help reduce those divisions is I don't know if there's sort of alternative ways of using this kind of technology or whether we're just looking at the glass being half empty. With any technology, you have to ask from the very start what are the unintended consequences GonNa be So, for members of marginalized community, St-, say people that are involved in precarious Labour that yes might absolutely stand to benefit from a quick notification. The you've been exposed to the virus or you know you have the virus in the now you have to notify your social network. And you're kinship network. It that that is really important. Right at the moving quickly really matters in the case of covid nineteen. At the same time. It would benefit. The entire society to really have a conversation with members of marginalized communities to really ask them you know. What is the most effective way that you think your community can care for itself that you care for yourself under conditions where you have to isolate where you have to act quickly where you can't you know go to your job which has cascading effect for whether or not you can feed your family right I think that we actually haven't posed the question to members of marginalized communities. So we have a sense of the disparities we have this we have a sense of the problems that people face. We've never really centered the conversation within these communities to ask them, what is what is and what has been affected for you. Before I let you both go. It'd be great to hear if you would be happy downloading a tracker APP like the one we're expecting from chess x and just what you also the biggest concerns off the you individually. Guess I'LL START I. I feel an obligation to download an APP that's been invested in by on national health authorities and would do it but I have to say that I would do it with a lot of skepticism about whether or not it works at all and I would also I suspect fun myself quite dubious about any notifications I got that were in contravention own instinct about who had been in contact with A. Weather. I've been too close to someone or whether for example, I was wearing a mosque and therefore was not as susceptible as the at my thing I was so i I would do it. I think out of the experiment to understand what might how you might change but I think the APP would have made quite a high threshold and the minute something went wrong I think that I'd probably face it. See Two loss word to you. Since tough question I tend to be I mean. I probably sit in a higher risk category for more severe impacts. So I see the value in contact tracing and yet I don't know. If at least in how it's been presented that. Digital contact tracing presents for me personally a better option than manual contact tracing. So I I'm risk-averse I'm happy being in my local. Half a mile radius for the time being I am very. Aware of my immediate social network from day to day. And I am eager to to be in public conversation with people about the merits of downloading. This. APP. And I would likely be swayed if we really had a a vibrant and conversation with a diverse range of members of the population. But right now, it feels like the conversation has been really. Narrow that we're not. Getting all. Perspectives us to. How this APP release fits into a larger public health strategy. Well I. Guess the One postive of things taking wall is that we may have some time to discuss these things before the APP is actually on our phones both of you. Huge. Thanks for joining US and discussing all of this really appreciate it. And thank you. That was Collie kind and see to again gathering speaking to end sample. Thanks to them both for joining us on this podcast. This was just one of many ethical issues we've stumbled across in the past few months and we're keen to cover more. In fact, we planning another double potter on the on going debate of a Human Challenge trowels deliberately infecting study participants with Covid nineteen in the eight of rapid vaccine development. But we would love to hear what you think. So do send us an email at sites weekly at the Guardian. Dot Com. If you enjoyed today's episode of really recommend listening to the episode track and Trace. We'll the government's new work from today in focus our sister podcast featuring the Gardens UK technology editor Alex. And finally, as always do keep sending us your questions on the science behind the outbreak by filling in the form found the Guardian Dot Com forward slash covid nineteen questions. That's one way. We'll be back on g stay see then. The Guardian.
192: Ritz and robocalls with Rory
"Hello beautiful people. I just want to give a quick shout out to our cyncially incredible Patriot supporters. Fees are the people that help us make the show and we are so grateful this week. High tens go to Matt Cotton Williams, Saboteurs Brian Berry. Justin Dale Marcus Serrato Christoph Goossens Kylie Higginson. Tim Davis MG Lee and Jason, poke. Thank you all. You guys rock few want to join this amazing community of people. What to do visit smashing security dot com for slash Petri on. Now let's get the show on the road. If you remember Queen Mother, anyone forget the Queen Mother she used to go to the Ritz and her favorite song on the can you guess we'll have someone on the that you'd like to play. Barbary Square. And it was actually the spades by motorhead. Territory. On Smashing security episode one, hundred, Ninety, two Ritz and robocalls with rory with Carol, -Tario and grand clay. Hello and welcome smashing security upset one, hundred and ninety two, my name's Graham clearly and I'm Carol -Tario and crow. His the show but not new to our eyes and ears because he is everywhere in the world of technology tiny has been for many many years. It is the technology correspondent, Rory Kathleen. Jones the illustrious Roy. Thank you for coming on the show. It's very exciting. You make me feel old years. Many years Graham just need companion. Grave years and years and years you go to go on cybersecurity. Yeah, we have to show some. The prophets. Yeah. He's a good guy. So Rory, how's it? How's it? What's it like in technology correspondent in the era of global pandemic? How's that Change Your Life Eighteen? extrordinary. We would help the other day before I went refer sure break at the beginning of August that we done eighteen consecutive editions of my we protected in lockdown from my attic, which is where I am. Now I'm staring out as a cheeky Fox walks along the back wall from time to time. So there's plenty of entertainment here. Yeah. We've managed to make it work. I everybody has spent most of the time on zoo which I'm beginning to curse. More we seen more face time my colleagues and I. The doing in real life I see more than now than. Board with their kitchens de to video calls all the time never audio all time. Guy. Shower every morning and everything. I'm not entirely sure that that's happening. We'll name name slates, Caro-, what's coming up on the show this week well, I thanks to this week sponsor. Last pass in support helps us give you this show for free. Now, coming up on today's show Graham'll share tipper to on how to avoid scams fancy schmancy eateries. Roy gives us the latest on the UK Kobe tracing, APP and I share some US based robocall call research and explain why legislation needs work all this and much more coming up on this episode of smashing security. Now chummy chums the Ritz in Piccadilly London have you ever been there? One of the most prestigious in the world and. I have I was there once a with someone more senior than I in terms of. Corporate hundreds of age, but in terms of seniority when I worked. For a sandwich did he did actually club sandwich eighteen critic cost. Rory I imagine it's your regular. I'll just try to work out I. Think I once went a wedding lunch with some rather Lively American friends there. But I've been waiting for years to be taken Fatih at the Ritz. Of course, you then thing that happens the Ritz these days is you get bugged at least if you're the owner, there's been a huge row isn't there between the various wings of the Barclay brothers? Yes yes. They also the Telegraph didn't they love each other. My Vice is looking the plump pots because there. Was A bug they're. Always updating private eye on the. Well it's quite swanky identity I've ever been in I once tried to get into the Ritz, but I wasn't wearing a tie. Your was wearing the wrong trousers. Shirtless. Not GonNa. Outside. Kebab late night. Rolling down, Piccadilly. No. It wasn't anything like that. It's it's got twenty steps. It shouldn't confuse it with Ritz crackers, right? Don't think it's completely different I. think they're sometimes have been something pretty classy crackers Ritz also sure the rich grow it's different from that but most of us probably will never stay there. Some might if they're lucky book tea at the Ritz. Rory is just alluded to for special occasion the smashing security Christmas party from this scroll. Are you in charge of that we digitally go? Go for real. You know we take a hermetically sealed suit or some doubt it. My brother-in-law said to me Christmas it's going to be the worst everyone's going to be indoors. They're going to follow protocol and everyone's going to be sick in January that was our Sunday phone call well. Charming I suspect most of us around the world they probably know it from that movie Notting Hill Not that the Ritz is in notting. Hill. But Hugh Grant Impresses Roberts. At the end of the movie at a press conference she falls in love with him. He plays the wrong version of she. It isn't the Charles as an aversion I. Don't know because one of the greatest songs of all time the viscous television is clearly deficient. That's the version they chose to play most of us know the Ritz from that but. What we've come to learn and thanks to a report I have to say on this. On. This. New. Be Startup. This news organization called the BBC Brewery. I didn't know if you've heard of your. Report by my colleague Chris Fox. You're on the wonderful Chris Fox. I'm never sure how many exits he should have his name. It's up for debate sometimes he has to he has reported about a scam which is alarmingly convincing and has been targeting diners at the okay. Could it fool me? Do you think well? Maybe. You're you're very cynical crow in your very skeptical especially. Good. Let's be Kinda. You're very careful about your personal information. You're the only person I know who actually reads privacy policies in terms and conditions that worry does. Know. Exactly exactly. Well, what happened was this? So there are folks out there who are making bookings at the Ritz Restaurant. You know they're not put off by the titles of pot plants being bugged and they're doing this online or maybe they're doing it by Nicole gets popular at the Ritzy met book weeks and weeks in advance he can't just show up right I, try to without tie and. Somewhere, head and then a day or two for your booking you get a phone call. From the Ritz Reservations Department okay. And you know it's the Ritz reservations department. Because they say it's the Ritz reservations. Department. Right and that's that's that. That'd be well, it would. It would because date four year restaurant you're expecting it and fancy restaurants do that. So that's nothing out of the ordinary. But even if even if you were a little bit surprised, they were ringing, you can check the number that they're bringing on and what you find when you look at your my microphone, whatever caller ID is that the number matches? Interesting teased the Ritz and they go further to make this call even more convincing. They confirm your restaurant booking details. You know they said. Smashing Security Christmas Eve tables five thousand whatever it is that we you know. Sandwiches. SBP amazing. We're going to bring all the listeners that's right by the way we. Invited. This sounds like Kermode, a Mayo's cruise to listen to what are they having a cruise. They have a cruise every year. listenership gets. So you'd be out done well, I don't know if I'd WanNa to cruise during a pandemic it's not gone down well for many of them. Who suffered data breaches will be. Idea that we could har- repeatedly war to grow. Listen, bring the bring the listeners of tech ten with us. Definitely. They confirm those details and you think he's the rates and then they look to make the booking. We need to confirm some details just need confirm your credit card details. You. Might Fall for that too because that does happen especially in span shoeprints restaurants they sometimes one hundred down to make sure that you're gonNA show up right and no, it's the Ritz it's Parsh-. Obviously, don't scam people. Eighteen quit club sandwiches. Poor people aren't going to. Cure the. agonize. Club sandwiches that anyway well, the scammers have now got your car details and what do these scammers do having stolen the credit card details from people who dine at the Ritz. They, take those credit card details and they spend thousands of pounds with those credit card details. At all goals. The. Countless. The no longer catalog catalog company. You know they've stopped their catalog. Cuts look and I've read somewhere online. You can find all their catalogs since nineteen, seventy four. Put. them all up. So you can actually go back and see what was available at the early days. I think for listeners overseas, we should explain more Agassi's because we had a certain reaction to that. It's a bit like less posh L.l Bean I. Think it's more like communist Russia before the fall of the. Hey, that sounds great. Because you go to an Argos and you're told, please go to till a B or C and you queue there. Yes. Well, yeah it's it's it's it's actually quite an innovative. It's But like foyle's bookshop in very. Over Meghan me years ago when you went into the venerable falls bookshop on the terron crossroad and you bought it a poke you had to. You could just buy you have to go and go to till saying wait for somebody to handcrafted for eventually. Foils is an extraordinary experience anyway. As the BBC is the venerable BBC reports if the bank spotted that suspicious August transaction, you don't normally spend thousand pounds or. How many pools do you need sir? The scammer moans the victim up again, this time pretending to be from their bank. And what they do holes they say. Someone's just try to use your credit card Argos. We're GONNA cancel the transaction. Can you just read out the security code which you just been sent new microphone to make sure we talking to the right person? It's pretty sneaky now. One thing I didn't get is how are these? Miscreants getting my phone number in the first place that is the sixty four thousand dollar question. Isn't it? Yeah. Because this data was presumably stored by the Ritz when when people were up and booked in the first place. Who knows how the Ritz is storing the information? Are they putting it down a little piece of paper and sticking it to the wall? I have they got an excel spreadsheet? Have they got some properly or antiquated in carefully password protected database No you know Oh. Okay I didn't realize they have admitted that they know they suffered some kind of data breach involving their reservations department. Insider job anyone walnut suppose ability as well. Isn't it? Could on the inside? Who could be turned off? So we don't really know, but it's it's quite sneaky. Now, one of the potential victims, this told the BBC that this whole thing happened to them, but they were able to dump found the scammer and the way in which they did is they said, they asked they asked that cooler specific questions about the hotel's facilities. The scammer wasn't able to ans-. Okay. So I don't know what they would have been identified. They would deliver trip up the scammer wherever they were saying remind me how many toilets you have available. and Ice Machines. Blue paper double quilt or will I be in the neck of a swan? Are The utensils actually silver silver plated. Thousand Nine hundred ninety seven. So ten. Off The ninety five I cannot chilled grapes anything else now, I went to the Ritz website trying to find out some, Trivia. I was ready in case I got one of these calls and there's not very interesting trigger. There is one about the Queen Mum. If you remember the Queen Mother she used to Wrigley. Forget the Queen Mother guy well known that either she she used. She used to go to the Ritz and favorite song they play on the which can you guess what her favorite Moss on the piano that she'd like to play the? Barclays were it was actually the spades by motor head so Yes, it was a nineteen gassing square. You're quite right anyway. So I can't I can't believe you know the ace of spades for motorhead did your. Sign about me. motorhead seems Echo. Chamber. So we are warning people whether you are booking a lunch or a tea at the Ritz or anywhere else be wary of cools where they ask you to confirm your credit card details your thanks Graham. That's. What chat for? Cool. All right. What what are you supposed to do? So see you have made a booking at one of these fancy restaurants and say, they don't call you jeff it. They're not going to ask you to confirm your credit card. and the rich confirmed that happened to me. Okay. The rich subset that they won't ask you to do that. To them and the more be aware that just because a phone call says, it's comes from a number cooler. Id Spoofing is very much within the capabilities of criminals. uh-huh. And another piece of advice if you do get a scam call, hang up the phone. And preferably use a different phone to then call your bank or whoever it is using a number on the legitimate website or on the back of your bank card. Instead sometimes people have hung up the phone and then picked up the same phone and they haven't realized they're still connected to the bad guys. The guy just changes his voice and goes hello. This is your. What have you got for us this week. Is the tortuous saga of the UK's attempts to lead the world in contact tracing? A Bluetooth that. So I I got vote in this. I got a phone cool in late March someone who only described as a very senior figure in the UK tech community this person said to me. Could. I help this team. They seem to have some idea I. I had to explain it eventually June very in the story about it wasn't be part of the Tae Anyway that was doing these incredibly secret at important mission that could save hundreds of thousands of lives. So I said well, I I'm GonNa tell you I'm going to be a consultant, which is what they wanted me to be but right I could be a journalist and you can tell me everything. And so They. Kind of put me in touch with the people doing this APP, and then the saga unrolled as will remember over the months as the NHTSA in England the digital division MHSAA's try to create this act. One is interested me about this in particular is the row over privacy and and how that's gone because if you remember with this saga, they were originally going to build an APP that was on called a centralized basis. There would be some data collected by the essentially north of your location, but all of Your contacts with other folks because the way this thing works it. Uses the Bluetooth on your phone, and it detects whether your in theory within two meters of somebody else who's also running the APP and it stores that data and one of you reports the you've got the virus the others get an alert saying, hey, you need to self isolate. Right. Very quickly premacy campaigners here, and around the world began to say just a minute this is very big brother and eventually there was an alternative system produced by Google and apple they weren't producing apps they produce the API basically a tool kit for APPS, but they had to be decentralized apps where the data will be stored on the individual smartphones and the matching with only take place between the smartphones nothing clicked centrally. And that is the Paul just about everybody including the alleged in England has now gone down. So the NHL England now has an APP which follows the Google and apple model. Yeah. So we we had this big crisis in June where having said where we're very confident in a centralized. which didn't have the food cooperation of apple in particular, which was key because making blue to. Work, in the background on phones is a bit of a nightmare. Apple weren't really being helpful the NHL Record at found of work around then they announced in June it wasn't good enough to work around. So going back to the drawing board with a decentralized. Ah. which would fit with. All the privacy this why I find interesting, all the privacy campaigners said. We told you show you should have done that from the star. I. Think we're I think we're guilty of that I. Think we were saying that cost, but we also watched Germany go through the exact similar paces but two months earlier. Exact Early so Germany huge debate opposite. Germany. Incredibly. Privacy Focus I'm went decentralize. GOT THEIR APP. House a now just last week we have got decentralized that which again is being tested in the isle of wight and he's sitting on my phone right here I've had access to it. Is there a problem in so much as their testing on the isle of wight because my being to the isle of Wight and most people. This is an exaggeration. A lot of people who live on the isle of Wight probably don't have to install APPS, their phones because of their demographic. I think that's exaggerating. He's an an exaggerated. Yeah. The. One thing they did pretty well with friendly is getting some fifty thousand out of. Fifty, five, thousand, one, hundred, forty, thousand people downloading. A third pickup. Yep that actually as a percentage of the population isn't too bad and they're also GONNA be testing in the London borough of new of know very dense in the city place. There are two questions here. First of all did we get too excited about premacy? Because there's a debate here as this was rolling out the very same people were saying, this is a real attack on privacy. This sort of centralized at will also say, and why can't we be more like self career sometimes very same people don't really well. Oh I. Know I heard that argument insane. And the point as that South Korea didn't use a bluetooth contact racing at they used Voss amounts of quite intrusive data. Every single credit card transaction people's movements were your mortgage information insurance information everything. They published allied citizens. Lefty. This building went to this restaurant. Other. Meanwhile here in the UK, we were having this debate where we said we're worried about anonymous iced contact data being hand NHS but at the very same time we are being ordered to stay at home we were having our freedom could tell that way. So there was a bit of intimate there. And the other side of the debate is who with the all. Of what was allowed in the final analysis of these decentralised APPS? and Google so apple and Google. Thank. Can you just use ours please. But also apple were deciding. The balance between privacy public good should be. The other huge question is Bluetooth contact tracing apps a Republican idea. But they just an idea and nobody knows whether they were. So I have I have one thing that I have to say. This virus is global and a NHS, contact and trace up is very geographically decided like many apps around the world and that's kind of a problem. I kind of like the idea that. Apple and Google to competitors got together to put some into the actually everyone could potentially use because when we start traveling again, it might be good to have that information and not have to kind of go to your APP do my app what zero? Yeah. That still means that share a database. Of People's contacts but of WHO's tested positive because otherwise you know if I go to Germany eat with my hat. And somebody I make test positive in Germany How is that Information GonNa get to my APP and therefore me If the UK and Germany share database of people who've tested positive. So. There are always potential. See snows raise interesting question here, which is about this balanced between show yes as privacy. So you that's obviously the direction which I'm of coming from we have a particular viewpoint but at the same time, there's a pandemic going on grim and lots of people are dying and maybe you should give something just like you've given up some your personal freedom you're staying at home you're not going out to the cinema doing crazy things like that because of this to help other people, maybe you should give a little bit away as well. It's been dipped. My yeah cannot come back to this thing of do these things work at all right? So Germany and Switzerland few weeks ago I got in touch with both to say, how's it going? There basically said, we haven't got a clue they know how many people have downloaded, but they no data they said because of the decentralized nature of the APP on how many people had been alerted and then decided to go in quarantine because of this the other point though is the for Germany it didn't matter to much UK started Devon's path with absolutely zero in the way of contact tracing operations, manual contact tracing operations. So they got far too excited the UK government about the potential of technology that was starry eyed about it. We know that Matt Hancock built his own a few years ago to sell the amusement he he was. TAP delsing. Downing Street saying these APPS, going to change the world and it was quite notable last week, not a peep out of him as the second version. APP what HAPP- what what, HAP- yeah. Yeah. So whereas Germany Germany had a very efficient regionally based contact tracing system manual tracing system people ring you up in place. So this it doesn't matter frankly if it doesn't work very well, it's an optional extra is a nice to have rather than the must-have. What the pickup of the APP is in Germany like, is it like third population or more laws time? I. So figures that was about fifteen, sixteen, million out of about eight, hundred, million that the other thing when this idea came forward originally people. Said, you're going to need sixty percent of the population from be worth well I think he could work in in very select a place for road in very selective of area. So people commuting into a city if you've got lots of people who use the tube every day because that's what he's doing. That's the only thing he does better than a human being is detect people. You don't know you sit next to somebody on the bus when when you get the positive test a few days later and they say who is sitting exit I, don't know. Whereas the APP might be able to tell you. So if you could get discrete populations like that to do it, it could play a part but I think there was a huge attack utopianism. Round the world about ways smartphones are going to be the solution to order this and they're really known. I think it's a little bit more nuanced than purely the privacy brigade who are up in arms about the centralized approach and. For instance, one of the issues I had with the centralized approach was one of perception you talk about the need for lots of people to install the APP. If there was the perception that privacy wasn't being taken seriously compared to maybe other countries that would prevent people from that's a real chicken and egg thing though isn't it? What you're saying is if if privacy campaign made enough fuss about it, that would put people off. I think the fact ido hardy was running things was putting some people have given her background as well. That seemed a very strange choice to me if they want to instill confidence interesting thing about Daito haunting is my suspicion is that she came in to run this manual tracing Operation Notre these APP said, what's that about? Why are we doing that? I think she was the one that basically cable shit. Yeah. It's interesting Rory Rory. was, di Di the tech big. No no she wasn't touched the ducks. Work. It. Out. Subtle was you're very, very subtle I'm going to reveal all my sources are. focused. Around me. What have you persons week? Okay. Well, we're going to land robocalls. We all hate them I mean everyone in the world most Haitham we're not as inundated by these as much as our US counterparts. Are we like it was it was bad a few years ago maybe five years ago here in the U K. I don't think I've ever had robo-call. Oh, really I've had a zillion what you mean by Robocall have you ever been in an accident that wasn't your fault? Greg Could I just briefly interrupted to tell you this. Do, you have a Microsoft problem. Yeah, I get those. You've never had them. I get them on my mobile, which is, is it what what once landline quickly becomes Sodhi I? I I've got so annoyed with a constant cool from the wrote robot saying, have you ever been an accident? Folk that once I played long and I started crying I said it was not. The machine exploded eventually. Okay. So what advice do you give because these guys I'm going to talk about have done some research and just be interesting to know before start. What kind of normal advice would you give to people? So say I called you up and said I'm getting scourged by this number it's calling these people calling me and they're selling me stuff. Is there a do not call list or something which may be signed up for years and years ago, contact your phone provider and say, what's all this about? Okay you can get your screen I mean Sierra side of this is I got an elderly relative who was scam by some of these people and we didn't put a cold screening system in front. So that's you. It would be a bit more difficult Stephen Block the numbers you know if he's number kept calling I block it. Yeah and you'd like never answer one right by the idea was just do not answer because then what was it? It was like you're confirming that you're real live candidate readily cool me up at the Ritz reservations to and I'm very happy to deal with them. My. Deepest Some years and he's driving wife. Deliberately, stringing them along I mean not not the Robo calls but. The micro service centers. I did have a guy on the phone for thirty minutes. With my windows PC and then revealed that it was a Mac catch the and he shouted at me you wasting my time. When I think of all the tech PR's who probably trying to get the Kathleen Jones, and all they had to do pretend to be a Microsoft support engineer giants cabin. So, there's this paper by these researchers at North Carolina State University, they presented recent security conference last week, and this is apparently the first large scale longitudinal analysis of unsolicited calls. To basically a US honeypot. And the papers called WHO's calling Lincoln show notes, etc etc. so they set up over sixty six thousand phone lines. Ran Them for about eleven months, and this is starting March last year. So eleven months sixty, six, thousand phone to phone numbers. Okay. All of these were clean. I mean like they were never made the numbers were never made public by any source. How many calls do you think these guys received sixty six thousand so how well each each nor altogether? Altogether. Over how long? How many months eleven? Oh Crumbs. Okay, I'm just going to do some myths. I'm GONNA to say. Five. Million Ruined it. Yeah. I'm going to clive any. Twenty. No one point four, eight, million. Wow. Oh. My goodness. That's much more than A. At, my I was going to end this piece by saying, yeah. Not many calls per number works out to someone like about twenty two per phone number during that time. But I still think it's worthwhile research because there's some interesting findings which I will share with you now. So, they basically had these sixty, six thousand phones and three thousand randomly selected phones would answer calls while the other ones rejected calls, and from this, they were able to get one, hundred, forty, five, thousand call recordings, and with that, they are able to kind of figure out how campaigns worked what could be done about them. Okay. As you guys know most robocalls are designed to be answered right now normally last less than a min- but forty eight seconds I, think was the average. and. They're often focused on things like I've moment actually there's been a bit of a rise on health insurance and covert tests, which is doing the river calls and the states surprise rose. Now, there are two types of call this little quiz for you the two types of calls robocalls that are not intended to be answers. Do you guys know what they are intended to be answered They once telling you to vote for a particular person said, they leave the message on Iran Machine Oh. One is voicemail scam but it works really interestingly the idea basically inject the recording into the voice box rather than trying to get the person to listen to it in real time but this is how they do it. They will place to simultaneous calls to the target so that the second call finds line busy has redirected to voicemail and as soon as that second call is connected first one is this is disconnected Often. Before it rings. So it doesn't get why did they do that? Why do they want it to be a voicemail rather than it may just be to get the message out or because they don't WanNa call back at some stage you might actually listen to your voicemail and take it more CS whereas a phone call arrives who knows what time and it's irritating interrupting you. Where's the voice mail you choose when to listen to it if it'll he actually here's another possibility similar to the when geary scams to view. Because I'd never heard of it. Okay and so apparently from a Japanese word, which basically means one ring, right? So effectively, the call the number once hang up aw when gear. Yeah. Once I never heard the term before. So these calls are effectively free for the PERP to make because the incomplete call attempts are not billable. However, the victim sees the miss call and many victims will attempt to return. The call and get charged at premium rates. So that may be what's happening with the voice mail scams as well. Call us back on this number and it's premium rate number. So I think this might be the only kind of robot. Cool I do get because I. DO occasion get calls from Albania and disasters, which then hang up and I would imagine some people would think Ooh someone told me. You're such an international secret tech star. You're thinking why God that must be my friends. I may call them so I just I just block things numbers. So the hopefully, right? Yeah. Okay interesting what you block the numbers interesting. Interesting. Okay. So just a few highlights robo traffic came in surges the storms, which basically were normally large number of unsolicited calls were done in a day and these occurred frequently I think we used to see that even with spam campaigns in the old days right you'd see this huge surge drop off. So short like short bursts will organize campaigns but not all the calls during these storms were from Robo callers. A significant chunk were from real people. And these remember these numbers were never given out. Can you think of how that would happen? Of they. Are they starting zero, zero, zero, zero, zero and what? What? No the spammers are using some of their numbers as caller. Id. Spoofing remember you were talking about that in your section so they would steal the numbers from the honeypot used them as a caller ID spoof the person would then call back the honeypot complain or to. Find out what's going on. Leave of. I know when do you think? Robo colors are most active. Early had a very definite pattern when people that's what I would have thought, and apparently they're just like us they need to get the kids to have dinner and go to bed and they have weekends off. So ninety percent of the unsolicited phone calls, majoring weekdays and eighty percent during local working hours. That's why a lot of things about students or the elderly insurance they think they're targeting that people that might be more vulnerable or financially. Stable does answering a robocall mean you're likely to get more calls. So this is something that regulatory agencies recommend all the time and these guys decided to find out. So the researchers declined every unsolicited every unsolicited received Colin, three thousand numbers for six weeks, and then the answered every single one for another six weeks and answering the call didn't seem to impact the frequency of calls alcohol. Isn't that interesting because I've always thought that I always thought Oh God now I'm like I've. Had you know they've got me they're gonNA share my number and they lie on here but. It shows that dumb doesn't it? Strategy. It's like, why are you missing a trick dudes yeah? So they're pimping on these calls they're pimping. Stuff but mostly was social security scams Google search promotion services, which means they must be going after small businesses that you really WanNa, know from this which they can't know. What the the rated fraternities yeah. Totally. One of the economics of it obviously robot makes a huge difference but they must. They need to use may be tested between between robot and real perse. because. The robot is a much more economical, but presumably, hardly anybody. Votes for it. Yeah. Well, the clincher here. This is what I found most surprising. K.. So regulatory changes made by the FCC 2017, authorize the telecom operators to block calls which seemed to come from an assigned or unallocated or invalid phone numbers, and it also allowed providers to maintain a do not originate lists to block calls from certain numbers but these changes didn't address. The scenarios were legitimate numbers were used to spoof the caller, ID? or where the caller ID wasn't spoofed at all and they go on to say that out of the one point, five, million calls, they received their honeypot. Only fifty thousand could have been outright blocked by providers. So three percent would have been blocked so it's not working very well. Yeah, and that's a real NYMEX to your point on your story. Worry right. There's a bleeding pandemic on. This is the time where you really want contact and tracers really want people to answer the phone. Yeah. Good Point and it would be nice if we could trust that rather than. Going I don't know this number block block block these young Stasi's Tysoe don't use the phone anyway. Do they think most more more people are avoiding voice chatting and up referring to what's Apple facebook message Oh? Yeah that's safe well, I'm not saying they trust everything on this is an instant messaging to the kids are doing these days I mean seriously is this is a fun conversation. Tell me about the kids guys. We do need. Analysis of what happens when contact raises do people up yeah. Totally. Whether people under thirty actually also. Yeah Yeah. Anyway, there you go. So that's the latest on Robo calls. It's quite an interesting paper and their links. Better. Hey, you it security guys out there I. Know that you have a tough job. If you want increased increase security without impacting productivity if you want to secure every entry point to your business, you want to unify access and. Then check out last pass they have the tools to make your life easier learn more at smashing security, dot com forward slash last pass Oh and the rest of you out there don't freak out there is a free password manager for home use check it out at smashing security dot com for slash last pass. And welcome back. Favorite product show the part of the show that we like to call pick the week. Week. because. We the on she's saying that could be a funny story of book that they've read a TV show a movie, a record, a podcast website or whatever they wish doesn't have to be security related necessarily not be, and my pick of the week is not well some of it security related some of Oh this is a very, very special pick of the win. This is what I believe is known as matter pick of the week this pick of the week he's a pick of the week. Of the week. We had from time to time listeners say to us have you our list of all of your picks of the week because we. Spoke About shoelace website, and now we can't find out what episode that scene or or whatever we can't find the link. Well, thanks to some of our glorious listeners and I'm GonNa now John Better Not Ward Nathan Pale Skinny Sweden and Shaheed you guys rock. have. Helped US put together a pick off the week archive is a wicky wicky. picky. HAS NOT A. That would have been so. Where were you when we will build in this? We didn't get how been the end. But. The link you can find smashing security dot com slash pick of the week. And we list all of our picks of the week with links to each individual episodes if you want to find out if Perot was right we. Could prove me right in. Your own I have not repeated any of my picks of the week They have all been unique. Well, we'll be adding this week's pick of the week to mission security dot com slash pick of the week as well. Is My pick of the week, which is all about the week. What an amazing community we've got they often school. Rory. What is your because the week? I've done last minute swerve I wasn't a choose book I. Now she's a podcast. Your Own Rory it's not actually amazingly Doodoo by the get tech podcast. And he's like this but shorter. And I'M GONNA choose series to a thirteen minutes to the moon either you series of thirty. Saloon was an excellent podcast about. Apollo eleven and it was I think thirty minutes was the time between. The lunar module leaving the Komo mortem it landing on the moon I'm so old I do remember. The landing on the Moon Blah I. Series two is actually betterment a policy while and it he's just a brilliant listen. So Apollo Thirteen, the disasters mission where they had an explosion. Halfway to the moon and then had to somehow save the ship and bring it home. You've probably seen the movie with Tom Hanks No I. I'm not allowed to watch any movies Tom Hanks. We that's one thing grabbing share and dislike for Tom Hanks. And it's Franson. Anyway but yet. But but I, remember as a child I'm not quite as old as you remember, is it moon landing but I do remember as a child listening to a radio documentary at school they played a radio documentary or something about the Apollo thirty and I've been gripped ever since what an incredible story what would a perfect tale to tell in podcast form so this will be really good. Yeah, and what what's more it's not just an incredible drama with brilliant access presented by Geico Kevin Phone who's WHO's known only space not WHO's? Worked briefly at NASA as he's a medic who's involved in the fight against. covid nineteen and roller interestingly at the. He dedicates the whole series, two people in the Health Service Heaping Finding Kobe Dean and That is because partly, it reached me this podcast as a kind of manage almost management man crisis management manual. They should be teaching it at Harvard Business. School. Because you get to hear about these extraordinary decisions that adds be made I'm just GonNa give you one example. So the flight directors is legendary figure gene. Kranz I think and. He is the coolest dude. You can imagine the thing blows up. And their internal crisis there two and a half hours it to the crisis. Is GonNa make always extraordinary decisions. These guys live and he's coming to the end of the shift as they do not work twenty four hours a day obviously, and somebody else is due to take over. Did he do? He lets the guy takeover because he trusts it. And it's a real lesson about trust in a t and you can't work give the guy in charge is listen. I'm I'm insurance soli the rest of you just do what I say. Yes. They're also lessons like that throughout throughout the series it could also be that you just didn't die on his watch. That is crew that is crew. This is the BBC podcast isn't it? It does to. There have been some incredible between coming out the BBC lately. So it's highly recommended excellent crow what's your pick of the week? What mine is also a podcast or a different type of audience lines, an audio drama, and that's not something you like Graham but something that I do. So this one is brand new or new ish came out in May that's fairly new and it concluded in July all the episodes are out and it's called Baranowska and it was a narrative podcast written by Rebecca Clinical and starring CL- Press. So I'm going to. Give you the gist. No spoilers I promise I promise but basically, you've got this Guy Sam Walker and sister and his folks moved this town called risk in Missouri and there he befriends two kids call Kyle and Kimber Sam Sister Whitney disappears a few months later and you know he wonders what happens to Her Bear Dad Justice hers she's left but then more girls seems to be disappearing. And the trio take it upon themselves. Find out what's going on the strange mining town and it's very cute. It's very spooky. Got Good dialogue and pace fit like a stranger things bit right. If you like that, this'll be up your street. So yes. Talking to myself well. I haven't heard it can't come into it. It's not we do every single show didn't you just do that with Rory's? Thing. So I'm going to tune into this. Excellent. I think you'll like it roy well, no I haven't seen stranger things either. In that as far as I know, I mean it's not by the way I do watch the toy story movies. I'm all right with those for Tom Hanks's involvement there to see his face and there was also that one of the post did you see the post? The Post is a great and it was an excellent movie and only halfway through did I realize Oh, that's Tom Hanks and I actually really enjoyed it so they were not completely empty hanks trader. If you like the sound of Bresca, you can get it wherever you get your podcasts. Cool. Well, that just about wraps it up this week. Rory thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm sure our listeners would love to follow you online and indeed check out the tech tent podcast. What's the best way for folks to Stuckey Online and find out what you're up to well I I'm a twitter holding a slightly unusual handle ruskin one four seven. You will find me a law, your family on the BBC website, and if you google tech tent goes out every Friday, but the podcast is available. Late, afternoon Friday marvelous, and you can follow us on twitter at Smash Insecurity. No G twitter. mastaba. G. And we also have a Reddit sub reddit just look for smashing skirt up. Then don't forget if you want to be sure never miss an episode subscribing your favorite podcast App such as apple podcasts. Or pocket costs and socially distant. Hugs to you for listening supporting the show and sharing our work with your entourage. Also high five to this week smashing security sponsor. Last pass its support helps us give you the show for free checkouts Massey security, dot com four past episodes, sponsorship details, and Info to get in touch with us. Next time cheerio bye bye. Thank you so much, Rory. Is that okay. Terrific. No we have to go again right from the beginning. I'm kidding. You were great.
82: The Great Anthropause
"Hello and welcome to the National Trust podcast. I'm Shawn Douglas podcast producer at the National Trust. Now, Juta lockdown and restrictions on her movement. You've probably noticed in recent episodes, swapped the great outdoors and historic houses for the more confined surroundings of our podcast studio. However, in this episode, just like many around the country where taken a first tentative steps into the outside world today where off to the isle, of Wight to explore how is human and non human residents have reacted to the great aunt's reports. Being back on public transport takes a little bit of getting used to. As, I walked the decks of this I, love white band fairy I, catch a glimpse of myself in the window and with my hood up large black face mask. A bear. An uncanny resemblance to some kind of Comic Book Superhero. Today. To, shed some light on a strange lockdown phenomenon. During this period of reduced human activity, there have been reports of birds singing louder increase sightings of rare species and animals venturing into places that were once human only domains. Now, it's easy to assume that this has been widely last reaction to the lockdown. Could there be something else going on. So, with its wide variety of habitats and urban areas packed into pint-size location. The isle of White seemed like the perfect place to understand just what's been going on in the great anti-polls. And if you're not quite sure what the gray answer pause is, has professor Christian roots of the University of Saint. Andrews Scotland. One thing that I've noticed over the past few weeks is term we introduced anthropology. So that's an through the Greek for human and pulls well it just. It seems to be really helpful Shelton people started using a thing others like because it avoids Covid nineteen lockdown jogging, which I think everybody's tired of Christians, part of a group called the international bio log in society who coined the term in a recent research paper. The international by logging society brings together researchers from around the world who use state of the aunt animal tracking approaches to find out where they go and they do, and we realized that during covert nineteen lockdown, there was an opportunity to to use. Use these approaches to understand how animals responded to decreased levels of human activity. This is a research opportunity that has come about by the most tragic circumstances, but we feel as a research community that it is one, we can't afford to Miss Christians. Research is in its infancy and is currently not the data needed to make any solid assumptions about the benefits to non human species from the great entrepreneurs. But anecdotally across the world, and at National Trust properties, there have been many accounts of unusual animal behavior. Morning. I am I am Fiona. Good to see you. Back on the Isle of wight. With Fiona and chuck. I'm GonNa, get you to some microphone on. So, we don't microphones a our away from the blazing sun into the inviting shade of forest to see if we could witness the effects of the anthem pause inaction. You WanNa take us for a walk through. The soon, as we enter the forest, it feels as if we stepped into the portal of a parallel universe, the dry heat has been replaced by this cool musty air, and the sound of civilization has given way to the sound of Shimmer leaves and birds. And after a few minutes of walking, we arrive this incredible space. Hey, we are entering the Beech Grove clearing in the forest of towering trees and this. Beautiful. Absolutely. Beautiful. Yeah. I, have heard this section described as a cathedral. It does feel like, yes, the lights coming through the stained glass, you can imagine having a wedding ceremony, hair must be quite a theory. Really. As wonderful as this may be for us, presence seems to be disturbing the residence of the forest. Oh a buzzard. He lasted US heard as coming up and I just saw him. Fly Down through. The chestnut. Where you can pick up, there was an alarm call. I think it was a woodpecker. He seemed like the forest inhabitants were given us a wide berth as we got deeper into the forest. There was evidence that they may be closer to whistle Dole Nice, they make the nests out honeysuckle. Lots of Holy Round here, which is good for Bat. Quite a few that species are here. Insects. And invertebrates. And suddenly, these shots of life filter through the canopy illuminating, at Hayes, hovering above the bracken that was teeming with life. And I little meadow. Brown Butterfly. Unveiled. On that dead tree. Great spotted. Woodpecker. Can you show? is another one flown onto the other dead trae? Has Up there. Now, I see youngster on the right because he's got red cap on the top of its head. Knocking. Can. As Nice. Think the. Amendments. Later, we not stop buzzard who we thought was disturbed by presence just meters away sagely looking over us without a care in the world. To encounter all this wildlife up close and personal, just a few minutes walk from road and busy residential area. Surely. This is evidence of animals more confidently and boldly venture into human occupied landscapes during the great. Anti pools. Well. Maybe not this is more of a local word, I would say. Tourist town to stick to the beach and the popular areas. So even in the middle of the summer, you'll have not many are on the trial. So you you tend to get lots of spaces where there's nobody around. So it seems like on this part of the Isle of. Human disturbance of the local wildlife has been lockdown levels for years and humans. Non Human Species found a way to use the landscape in a manner that's mutually beneficial. However, on the other side of the island, why'd las reaction to the great anti pools has been much more pronounced? In fact, it's been so unusual that countryside manager Robin Lang decided to document it in his own podcast. I'm rolling lying on the. For the north across the white. Join these for Full Walker Newtown National Nature Reserve. Usually. It's an amazing place, the Ottawa with a lot of different habitats, but it does have its fizzy spots. Doing. Holiday Times. You might have people coming with a mountain bike on the Braga ways, people coming holes, trailers, and riding horses, and then families coming. Happy family walks. Some of them happy than other people, picnics, all sorts of things. Places like modest down, and then the downs people often drive there. So walk their dogs and I don't actually know the numbers exactly, but it must be several hundred per day that can have an effect on on some of the wildlife that lives there. But with restrictions on travel for Leisure and exercise, and all national trust car parks close in. This was a holiday season like no other. Also found himself temporarily with a smaller team. And this gave him the opportunity to tackle tasks that he hadn't done for years back to bins podcast. I'm at the bottom of of. down. On a hot afternoon doings and fencing repes-. took me all sorts of places that I hadn't been to for quite some time. Whopping was now a human in these wild landscapes and he started seeing heavy things that he hadn't seen or heard in such abundance for ages. There were a white throat and Song Thrush, and there was one birth sounded rather like demanding customer at the Deli counter. The yellow seeing nearby from the top of the whole phone book. Song is supposed to sound a bit like little of bread and no cheese. Now debatable to say that this perceived abundance of wildlife is a direct response to the great anther pause, and that wildlife has come to reclaim what was. Once this might just be that because it's been quieter and up until recently, our only form of exercise has been going out for walks where we're more likely to notice that wildlife well could be the case, but from what rob served, this could at least be some kind of avian, Landgrab. Skyhawks from Lettuce Bits, they nest on the ground. So they find a tussock grass to conceal their eggs in. You can imagine if you've got lots of dogs walking in those areas that amount of disturbance that those birds get gets to the level where some of them abandon the nests. So without the number of people in some of these places that were. Skylark, some media pits spread out much more. Spreading out into some very unusual places. One of the landrovers hadn't been used for a week also and the ranger was cleaning it and. United States, that was a great nest halfway through being constructed on on the on the chassis. It just goes to show how quickly birds take advantage something that stood still for Law and more evidence of the Avian Landgrab can be seen further afield at called Castle in Devon, where birds of prey have been making the of an old castle. Their home has Tom Clarke land outdoors and nature engagement officer on the per back state. A pair of Peregrine. Kanaan's and have actually ova lockdown. Created a nest laid eggs, and then they theme raising their young, and that's the first time. Since the early nineteen, thousand, nine, hundred, that's been the case young started to fledge. They've been bouncing all over the castle. They've been very much at home in passing food to each other making a lot of noise. Back on the Isle of Wight, Ruben contemplates the rather more relaxing avian sounds. On sat on top of event downs. On the South side of the. White. Just above the town of vendor. Wonderful Blue Sky wispy clouds. and. So. Quash out air. You can hear the buds. Going the Sun Showing Skylark Singing Alliance, Guy? Minutes twittering Bush's. Responding to. This is actually just a few days before. We will be opening our carparks again. And on the thirteenth of May, it was the moment of truth. So. This is the moment that everybody's been waiting for. Now the people can. Drive to exercise. Day like. Everybody will observe of the social distancing guidance. I of. It was never can time would there be a mad rush their park. Would we see a lack of social distancing? AM? Would we be able to keep our staff volunteers say? On the hope things ran like clockwork, but there was some places like the per coastline south, Devon where things were a little more lively. He's Tom Clarke again. There were no campsites and there were no festivals. You had whole families pitching up thinking that. It was okay to Campfire and a heathland and pop and eight, nine, ten, one Saturday, the local fiber gay pal thirty. Fires. And with this number of people. But no shops cafes and no toilet facilities, you can probably start to build a picture of what things look like. That lockdown rebounds like the elastic band is a spring. You've kind of let that go and it kind of buoying everybody did what they wanted for three or four weeks. The situation feels like it's relaxed a bit. But just like the extreme behavior that accompanied the start of the coronavirus, like the Russian toilet paper enhance sanitizer. After awhile, things started to get back to more acceptable levels. For many of US lockdown may have felt like referred to in the animal world as a loss of habitat, and until recently, skylark on the island of White, and the Paraguayans costs who had suffered a similar plight having had access to breeding grounds restricted. And just like the sky locks, Peregrine's a soon as lockdown was it, and we had access to our landscapes. Again, we made a beeline for them. So now maybe we have a deeper understanding of impact of habitat loss, Omar Life, we fixed periods now what it feels like to be confined to have our movements restricted. And that may nurture some goodwill for trying to make adjustments that allow other species to enjoy the freedoms. We've been longing for no. Over the past few months. I think it's been very clear that people during this desperate crisis, we connected with nature. Back, up north with cops Fiona Chuck and myself were experience in that connection to nature firsthand. Like, trees are giving you a big hug. If you feel a bit sort of stretch to get out. Listen you just. Look, around and listen to the birds. Now we've all probably heard about the benefits that walking in woodland has on our health. But it turns out encounters. We have with the inhabitants of these places may also be doing us the world of good. Hesitancy Murray senior lecturer in animal psychology at the University of Chester. A psychologists were learning more and more about just how good for animals are taking dogs into people's Times in hospitals. Pet therapies been used after surgery to it's been shown to reduce the need for patients to have actual drug medication. Now although the inhabitants of both with cops are far from lapdogs as that buzzard that's been watching US morning. Gracious us with one loss fly by I can't help but be filled with a sense of calm and all. Did you say that? Yeah? Isn't it see something that big navigating Easter? Yes. Without the great anther pause, many of us wouldn't have connected with nature in the way that we have over the last few months. So now that we know the benefits of connecting with nature those that we share it with, how do we maintain this connection as we move into the new normal? Whether it's a holiday romance with nature or what have you connect me natured wherever you are whenever you are, because we were doing it for seven weeks when we were forced to. Within lockdown. So we can do it is important in this kind of anthropomorphic is it's been nicely, coins that people will start to be more appreciative. The will appreciate around health more. I will also appreciate our place in nature more. There's increasing realization ads. Human. Wellbeing depends critically on a healthy environment. So this is not only about species comes of Asian Wildlife Conservation. This is this is also about ensuring that we human stay healthy. We've got a chance now albeit. As a result of the immense human suffering from this crisis, but we've got a chance to to go forward in a green wilder more respectful way. We. Hope you enjoyed this episode of the National Trust podcast. To make sure your notified when new episodes are available subscribe on spotify Google or Apple podcasts and for more audio programs for the national. Trust, go to trust dot walk dot UK. Forward, slash podcasts. We'll be back with a new episode soon. So for now from me, Sean Douglas, goodbye.
A documentary about dinosaur enthusiasts
"If you're looking for some dinosaur activities either for yourself or possibly for your kids because your home schooling them check out our dinosaur lesson plans. You can get them at Dino Dot com slash dinosaur, hyphen lesson hyphen plans, or by going to I know Dino Dot Com and then it's under the free resources during covid nineteen. If you haven't already please consider joining our patriotic. We offer lots of benefits like an ARC game server ad free episodes are books and a print of Sabrina dinosaur art. Find out more and join Patriot dot com slash I know dino all lower case. Hello and welcome to I. Know Dino I'm Garrett. Sabrina this week, we have a bunch of news including a new dinosaur from dinosaur I'll. Yeah, and we also have an interview with Tony and James. Pinto the Father Son duo behind the documentary why dinosaurs we also have dinosaur of the day Ostro Raptor and I have an extended fun fact which is all about different ways that dinosaurs could get buried potentially in a bone bed that isn't just a mass flood, which is what we usually talk about. Fun Indeed I think so. But. Before we get into all of that, we want to thank some of our patrons for keeping our podcast running and this week we have two new patrons to think and they are Nyah and Graham. So thank you both for joining our community and rounding out the rest of our shoutouts are Cameron, Ray Scotty, the Tolbert Family Brendan, Cavanagh Ranger Chris from Dino for Higher Laura Sorus and Kessler. Up Thank you so much. We really appreciate all of your support and it really helps us keep this podcast going and we enjoy chatting with you on our discord in Patriot. If you WANNA join, then check out our page, patriot dot com slash I know dino. Jumping. into the news as usual to start out with a new dinosaur when I can and really I have missed quite a few I think I have about ten or fifteen in the backlog any to catch up on. The four, S. Yeah, there's lots of smaller discoveries that didn't make huge news like this one. But they're still really interesting and there's a lot you can learn from them. They're just not quite as exciting. Say a beaked baby sewer pod that is hard to be. Yeah. With the crazy horn thing going on. So even without the crazy horn. The fact that this is at all is good enough for his Brita. This one is not a pod is a theropod, but it's still cool. It was published in papers in Paleontology by Chris Barker and others and as I alluded to at the beginning of the episode, it's from the Isle of Wight also known as dinosaur I'll. It's probably familiar to our UK listeners. It's just off the southern coast of the main island of Britain although for some reason, it's still considered part of the island of Britain even though it's clearly separate island I don't know why it's not a channel island. There's probably some long history behind that but in any event. The dinosaur bones in question were found mostly if not entirely by visitors to the island at three separate occasions over a few months in two thousand nineteen and that's because as you might know, dinosaur I'll is a pretty big tourist destination. That's why it has this branding and everything and fossils slowly erode out of the cliff on the edge of the island just like they do along a lot of Britain. One of the main ways to find fossils in the UK. So eventually after a few months, they got enough fossils that they decided to name a new dinosaur and they named it Vaccaro Vennegoor in open Naddis and victory vendor comes from vectis which refers to the isle of White. I guess they must have the same origin because visa wsa kind of the same thing Latin. Then aero for air and Ventura for Hunter and fantastically for me they wrote quote, we imagine the name to be pronounced vaccaro vitor. That's nice. It is wonderful and I'm very thankful to everybody who wrote paper for giving me a pronunciation guide. They didn't have pronunciation guide for the species, but it's just a Latin word it means unexpected so easy enough. The primary unique detail about Victoria Vittore is that the vertebrae are highly new metabolized, which is why it has that air part in the aero vitor meaning that the bones are more hollow than Factoria. Vitor close relatives. The authors also say quote, no theropod type specimens are known from the Appalachian of Europe in quote and that makes this unexpected. I think it's not too surprising since a lot of the type specimens are named from North America and then they were later discovered in Europe. So it's definitely not the first identifiable theropod from the APP teen of Europe. Just the first one that they've been able to name because it wasn't name somewhere else I. Vic Terro. Vitor is a quote unquote theropod and that's really about as specific as they can be because it has features of Alice Roy Dea megalosaurus idea and Megara Torah which is a kind of a controversial grouping. But in any case you could be in at least three different places in the dinosaur theropod family tree depending on which characters you think are the most important so it's a very theropod theropod. Yeah I. Guess. So sort of all over the place. Part of the reason that it's so hard to nail down where it is is the entire specimen consists of two back vertebrae one neck, Vertebra and one tail Vertebra. So just four vertebrae is the entire holiday type. Let's now to go on it is not and on top of that none of the vertebrae are complete. One of the neck vertebrae looks pretty good like you can see a lot of details between the Centrum and then also some of the little zygote policies sticking off of it so you can get some detail but none of them are really pristine shape. Also a little bit strange because like I said, all four, the vertebrae were discovered basically by different people discover by three groups. I guess one vertebrae each for two of the groups, and then one of the groups found two vertebrae so. They are pretty sure it came from the same individual because apparently they eroded out of a cliff around the same time over the span of a few months. So they're from the same general area and everything, but it's not like a typical scientific description where it's excavated and carefully describe exactly where it was in the Rock and how it was situated. So a couple of people have thrown some shade at this saying. How. Do you even know that these vertebrae are from the same animal? Maybe it looks like it's from all these different groups because they're not all vertebrae from the same individual, but they are pretty close in size so and they were found in the same ish place in a pretty brief period of time. So I think it's reasonable. I don't know if it's a great idea to name a hollow type on it but. Whatever we do, what we can paleontology. From a really rough extrapolation point. It looks like it was probably about four meters or thirteen feet long but it's super hard to guess at assize of an animal with just four vertebrae and none of them being complete. Yeah. But if it is around this is it makes it about mid sized four theropod. Especially, we're still in the early Cretaceous at this point. So we don't have all the supermassive things some of which came later. Didn't guess at an age for the individual. There weren't any long bones which are what you usually wanna use for lags and that might be partly why they did mention some sutures in the vertebrae. So I don't think it was super young, but they didn't say anything about it so I don't want to postulate. The area in the Isle of wight where the fossils came out of is from a geological unit called the Lower Green Sand Group, which is from the APP Deon, and this fossils specifically is from the late apt in which makes it about one, hundred, fifteen, million years old plus or minus a couple million years. You know there's always that plus or minus a couple million years. We're talking about paleontology unless there's something really good for dating at. That makes it some of the youngest if not, the youngest non Avian Theropod from Britain, and again, the Isle of Wight is considered part of the island Great Britain for a reason, I don't understand. In addition to victory vitor, the formation also has other theropods, sewer pods, and Kyle sewers or Nitham pods and lots of marine stuff because it was probably underwater for a lot of the Cretaceous. But now long enough to keep out the dinosaurs. Yeah. It's hard to keep how the dinosaurs. And from their best guess when they put these four vertebrae into a file genetic tree, which is difficult to do because you're missing almost all the characters you'd like to have to score something. It put it as a really close relative to t rex and therefore in tyrannosaur. Odia. But it's obviously much smaller than t rex about fifty million years earlier than t rex and all the way across the world. So they're not that similar. They're just similar ish what we can tell from the vertebrae for now. Yes. The authors also expressed that they didn't have a ton of confidence in this logic because there is such a mix of features on the vertebrae. So there's definitely some convergence going on here if it's a tarantula or like Alicea Royd or it could be a megalosaurus ranch or or half a dozen other things. It's hard to say what it was first and then what it evolved to look like. So the only way to settle this is going to be to find more fossils. So hopefully, there's a more complete vegetarian vitor somewhere of weight that we can find soon. Be Cool. In other news if you're listening to this episode, the day drops then tomorrow Thursday September seventeenth the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History will be hosting a free online lecture about how they renovated their Fossil Hall Matthew Carrano the curator of dinosaurs we'll be talking about the museums approach and of the seven year update. In. Other. Museum News. At the Royal Saskatchewan Museum are revisiting old dig sites that Charles and Sternberg went to find more triceratops fossils specifically and to learn more about what triceratops eight and how it differed from triceratops found in Montana, and they're looking at his old notes clues to figure out Sternberg dig sites from the early nineteen hundreds, and it's always interesting to scientists learn at sites that are over one hundred years old I. Always love this part of paleontology like going back and trying to find a historic and super important dig site, and then sometimes they do find more fossils. Reminds me a lot of these are abrahim trying to find that spinosaurus material in the desert and getting out there. It's just it's cool. Oh. Yeah. Lots of examples and it just adds another layer of history to prehistory Tacking those GPS coordinates onto some raw field notes from one hundred years ago it must be really satisfying In mckinney Texas the Heard Natural Science Museum and Wildlife Sanctuaries having their annual dinosaurs live life size animatronic dinosaurs exhibit from now until February fifteenth everything is bigger in Texas including their Science Museum names and exhibit Names Yeah. It's the fifteenth year. They've had this exhibit and there's ten animatronic dinosaurs they've got t rex deal officers acrocanthosaurus allosaurus bracket sorest Diablo. CERATOPS megalosaurus stegosaurus. There's UNISOURCE UTAH. Raptor. Hope that practice horses life ice new me too. Well, it's an outdoor exhibit. So might be they have two hundred and eighty, nine acre nature preserve, and so that makes it easy for if you're visiting, you can social distance and masks are also required. In learning SPA Warwickshire England, man bought his wife a dinosaur statue when she asked him to spruce up their garden. I'm sure that's what she meant. It's pretty good story. So Deborah Shaw said, she asked him to make the guarding quote tidy maybe with a gnome. And Her husband Adrian Spent Sixteen hundred pounds on a twelve foot tall fiberglass t rex sculptured that he named Dave and he had higher crane additional five hundred pounds to get it into position. So she got home late the day the day was delivered and Adrian plan to surprise her with it and he said to one newspaper Metro quote. I thought nothing could possibly look nicer in the garden than a three and a half meter replica of a rampaging t rex. So I bought one a guest that it is most people dreamed own a three and a half meter replica of a rampaging t rex but they don't have the space or resources to do this. I've been very fortunate to be able to realize the dream quote. was too good not to quote. So apparently, Denver does love dinosaurs and is a fan of Jurassic Park and David attenborough. So it seemed like a win. But what happened was after Dave was delivered it was the middle of the night or early the next morning. So still dark and Deborah took their dog out. So the DOT coppee and then screamed because she saw the t rex illuminated by security whites and wasn't expecting it to be there. Though was the first time. She saw it was in the middle of the night. Yeah. Because she got home late when it was dark, she didn't see it and that's why he was going to surprise her the next day. So. Adrian said he ran downstairs even after the initial shock she kept screaming. He said quote I've fallen in love with Dave though and he's not going anywhere I'm sure Deborah will understand and grow to love him just as much as I do. That is a wonderful story. So, what I'm hearing is if I get a cool dinosaurs sculpture and put it in our yard. You'll probably like it. Depends on the sculpture. A rampaging t rex I don't WanNa be shocked in the middle of the night about I'll show you in the daytime Talk more about this later. One for not recorded. Spoiler alert we're GONNA talk a little bit about Jurassic. World. Dominion. So if you don't WANNA get spoiled skip ahead like a minute or so. As get some fun speculation on Jurassic World Dominion he undress growth three and how the movies explain the new dinosaurs like pyro after. And that's because engines labs were destroyed and most of the owners and operators were dead by the end of terrestrial fallen kingdom. So apparently, cameron thorough will be in the film and he's the guy who played Lewis. Dodgson. Jurassic Park if you remember that scene where necessary screaming, we've got dodgson here. Oh was dodgson thought it was dotson the me too. But I guess that's just ned raise accent on no. Yeah and Dodgson didn't cheap out on him. So he bought them all those desserts as the only thing I remember dodgson than doing. Yeah he was a really. But he works for biomedicine engines competitor, and so interesting. Role. Dominion maybe, Woolsey BIOS in trying to steal genetic material from the engine dinosaurs at part of the plot of the novel. But it wasn't part of the movie the loss world while they're still pulling stuff out of those early two books. Yeah. There's a lot going on in those books. So. If bios and gets the DINO DNA than they could make all kinds of dinosaurs even a soldier dinosaur like. was alluded in Jurassic role fallen. Kingdom. Hopefully they have feathers. That's all I'm hoping for. Low Bar it is want feathers on one dinosaur and I'll be happy I think pyro after might be your dinosaur. I've really hope so but yeah, this is all speculation. So we have no idea. Really quickly, we again want to thank all of our fantastic patrons this week if you haven't already joined, we have five exciting levels. The latest is the spinosaurus level and we created as a new top tier for people who wanted to help us out more with the cost of creating the show. A few people asked us about this and what the best way to do that was and we wanted to. Offer them something really nice rather than just saying well, patriotic allows you to give more. We wanted give something back so he made this new tier. So what we're doing is where every year going to give away an exclusive thing that you can only get by being in the spinosaurus year and this year, it's a steal print of some marinas Paris or office parade which I think is a fantastic piece of. Art and of course, it includes everything from our other tears as well like the ability to chat with us our discord server where you can request a dinosaur day or talk about dinosaur art and toys and shows and news with us. There's a lot of different channels for different topics. You'd also join our arc private steam server, which has a lot of fun where you can tame dinosaurs and play with. Those you can also vote in polls that we post like for. Dinosaur. Watch parties. You'll also get accustomed RSS feed with bonus content like extended interviews as well as our ad free show, and you'll get a shout out if you want that as well as all of our dinosaur yearbooks plus of course, that still print of Sabrina art and something to be determined next year when we get there so many rewards. This episode is brought to you by our dinosaur lesson plans made carefully for you by Sabrina th include all sorts of different tasks for different age groups. It's a variety of things you can do that promote creativity and critical thinking, and of course, all of it is dinosaur themed, and then if you want even more resources, we've figured out exact spots of our podcast where you can learn more that are related to the plans. I really enjoy them. I haven't completed all of them myself but I think they're really good way to get a little more SCIENC- specifically biological sciences potentially endear kids curriculum in looking for resources while homeschooling or if you WanNa, just try out some fun dinosaur activities I think they're good for that too and you can get them at I know Dino Dot, com slash dinosaur, hyphen lesson hyphen plans, or if you go to I, Know Dino Dot Com under the free covid nineteen resources, you can find them there too. And now we're going to go onto our interview with Tony and James Pinto. But in a rare treat, if you like videos, we have a video version of this interview on our Youtube Channel. So if you go to YouTube dot com search for I, Know Dino and why dinosaurs whyy dinosaurs y'all find our interview and you can watch the video version of this talking to them. Yeah and a big thanks to Tony and James Yes they did a fantastic job on making the video. They've got some serious video skills that we can only aspire to you. We're joined this week by Tony and James Pinto, the father and son team who are currently working the feature length documentary. Why dinosaurs? which is a subject near and dear to our hearts all about dinosaur enthusiasts and experts. Thank you both for coming on our show today. Thanks for. Of course, thanks for having us. So you to started this project when James was in highschool graduating this year. Congratulations. Tony you own and operate a video production company is this a last hurrah before James goes off to college I'd say that's probably for me the best way to put it. I was seeing the the clock tick down. We'd we spent some quality time together but the end is near in his older brother had already left the house and it's like, okay. Life's about to change I. Don't think we had that grand of intentions in mind when we started anyway it was. You know this is I'm fifteen. And he's Thirty two. Yeah. Twenty nine. and. We just decided hey, wouldn't it be fun to to make like you know little sort of twenty minute I was like my dream was like forty minutes of. You know just a thing on the history of of Paleontology and all the different books and movies over the years sort of like a timeline from there I think it was like sort of surprising how many people even wanted to be part of it and then You know now it's gotten to this point where. We have the means rarely we just need to sort of get the editing stuff all together but we have the means footage wise to produce like a feature length documentary just about. And we do have a plan I. mean this is it's too long. You know we've Kinda charted out it's like four hours and said. Oh, you should do series because everything nowadays is a series but there's something kind of. Elegant we feel about it being just just the film and being around ninety minutes and it really forces you to distill all this stuff down. Just give the best bits. 'cause we know dinosaur nerves would watch all four hours. I mean we have twenty five hours of usable footage which we're going to publish for people to consume, but you know we want to. Get it out to a bigger audience. You know kids who are into dinosaurs and people who aren't necessarily they don't think they're in the dinosaurs, but maybe there's like this little. You know long lost love or something, and we wanna just nurture that out again. Nice. How did you when you were first starting out? How did you first get the word out and start getting your first few interviews? There's a point in like eighth grade and middle school right wanted to do a science fair project involving something in Paleontology, and that was about as far as I'd gotten thought. Wise. But it was relatively hard to do because most science fair projects revolve around a sort of scientific method experiment quote unquote whereas Paleontology's sort of gathering and assessing data like experiments happen from time to time, but most of it is just. Here is this table that we have assembled of all of the numbers, and from here we're going to speculate upon what implications this has you know for for for whatever topic is. And so I ended up finding out about this project in book that I reading where they took some spinosaurus tif and evaluated the geochemical ratios of oxygen isotopes in them and I was like that seems like an interesting idea you know I want to try that, and so I ended up just like googling my way through all of these chemical names and devices and things that they use and just trying to get any script of of how how do I do this you know what is temperature ratio mass spectrometer you know how they how they put it and so I eventually started. Finding these websites where they were like okay. This school has a massive trauma in the lab and I was like, okay, that's the thing. I want. Let me email them. and. This went for I think like five or so schools in California's trying to see. What who would who would respond people are responsible with is that's what's always from the beginning surprise me is just The all of these professors in all these schools. yes but it was it was something. That you know in itself is really sort of it was inspiring. The meal is that people were willing to reach out and. I eventually found some some very nice geochemists over at the University California Santa Cruz. We said Yeah we'll do it You know bring the stuff up and we'll we'll do it and send it back to you and I was like that's cool. But I KINDA WANNA, go through the process so I mean. that. Go Up to Santa Cruz. So, we went out there and we did the chemicals, and ironically while I was learning about it I, think the more I learned about it the more almost not disappointing but just more complicated got in terms of just that like that is relatively new science. And the climatology stuff being done with it is amazing. They were they were doing some work on plankton that were used to trace in eight million year old El. Nino event that was. You know something they could reference to future events that might happen to see like what know what the pathway is and. That sort feel where you have like a mountain of data and stuff like that. You can get a bit of this this weather trends stuff going. But when it comes to trying to figure out what individual organisms are doing, it's really messy because like sediments changed things the the the temperature of the water changes things have we there's an equation to account for that but it only it only goes on a base of having known what the temperature was one hundred million years ago, which is comes with a bit of speculation. So the results that I actually got from the project were by no means you know clean, but it was interesting to see it was. Essentially just that it was a very variable in the amount of. Salt in the water salinity of the water wasn't amount of salt even it was just proximity to the ocean like amount of times it had been picked up and rained. On. School yeah. Can you think about that but just getting into that process showed me sort of how opened two projects these people are and sort of how approachable they are. So to go all I back Nancy the original question it was just cold emails to people I saw in documentaries and stuff, and it was just hey, I'm fifteen at that point and I'm making documentary and would you want to be part of it? You have time or something we could go there. Was this interview. You know that'd be cool and then eventually what started happening was was you know we didn't really have the means to fly out to all of these places. But he has on this travel gigs, and so we would go. You know I had started helping him out sort of slapping gear. And Holding Cameras, and that sort of thing and it would be like, okay. Let's go to. And I'd be like, Oh, well, there's a natural history museum in Arizona. Yeah I mean as a dad seeing. What what started sort of at thirteen with the science fair. Project and which. He did. But yeah seeing this young kid with an understanding and a passion for that like of course, as a parent, you know you're GonNa go for that whether that's Karate or soccer or dance or whatever it is. He's into dinosaurs so it's like all right let's do. Yeah and James You've also worked at La, brea tar pits and the Natural History Museum Valet. While liberates harpists I almost got to get in with La's naturally museum but a combination of age restrictions and bad timing with a certain pandemic. Sort of NIP. that as it was about to happen but in the case of Libra I've been there. Almost it was. It was getting close to two years is probably about a year and a half and the first bit of that was spent. Sort of dough scenting acting as one of those special cart people in what you walk up and they have a thing and they show you in. That's just interesting in the level of getting to see how people engage with any of this stuff especially since it's not like, it's not a dinosaur. So there's that one extra level of like okay. I'm here and this is a museum with skeletons in it, but they aren't dinosaurs and with the break even it's like. It's the classic Ice Age fauna, but it isn't the classic Ice Age world. You know it's it's sort of like essentially a a Montana pasture or something or like a forest. Where it's it's colder a bit but like there's no giant glaciers or anything like that, and and even even in the winter, it's like the wasn't probably a whole bunch of snow, which is sort of ironic just because. There wasn't as much water since a lot of it was in the glacier is in Canada. So the environment there is pretty strange and sort of getting people through that, Mike Okay well, what is this it's It's a sloth, but it's eight feet tall, but it's a guerilla, but it's a pair, but it's you know an urban more but it's not as slow as a slot, but it's still pretty slow. Know, there's this. Dinosaur. Move. Move. Along. But but at that point from there, I eventually got a a spot in the in the lab in the prep lab that they have. They call it the fishbowl because the whole thing is like semi circle of glass and everyone looks in. Like, like you're the exhibit. There, there was a non zero number of people who. Are The people in the lab animatronic. DOC husband the question. Who? I. Went through there and got to learn their process, which is very unconventional in college as well because you know you're working through asphalt, which is not a common sediment, and then beyond that, you know within that asphalt, you're working through these non-permanent realized fossils that are just basically dark bones. They're just sort of dark asphalt filled bones beetles come out of that place all the time too, and some of them even retain a bit of their color like you'll see these Green Beatles and still have just a little bit of that iridescence and you'll. Never, get birds we do get birds. We get some very very finely preserved burs, which is very closely I worked on a bones call a tarso metatarsal once that was a little thinner than a toothpick. And out in long or so and so you want the most common thing by far is raptors because they're easiest to preserve, and there's there's a weird sort of edge case in the form of our. which will because it's at night and because they are sort of these pounce on hunters like essentially, they'll just slam themselves into the tar pits. Trying trying to get stuck mouse to something, and then they'll just go in right along with them. So the most one of the most common birds we find is a are Al's. Big Birds find their territories just giant sounds like a condor eagle hybrid because. It has a lot of similarities condors. There was recently a study that was sort of showing was similar in appearance, but it didn't have. That scavenging capability you know wouldn't it wouldn't have been as good of Schuyler based on its beak and stuff so it probably would have been. Stocking around and catching smaller prey and swallowing whole. Weird imagine for a bird that has like a almost a twelve foot wingspan. You find I mean all sorts of predefined passer, nine birds, little sparrows and things. Did you ever tell people when they're like? Are there any dinosaurs you'd be like? Yes, look over here. That was a frightening. Is. There's a section where you can see all of the birds and you like here we are my favorite dinosaur. Lebron Turkey vulture. Beast. The place to see probably raised some eyebrows say we're raptor right well to agree but I mean, it's enough sort of in the lexicon I. Think you know you see a raptor, a bird of prey. By the time La brea was forming were they're still the terror birds in air quotes are those already been wiped out by all the North American stuff that was post the name for it's the great the great American interchange and that happened around three million somewhere around five and three million years ago. So yes, the cats had already won. The fight had been fought. It's a fascinating place I mean. So once he started working at Liberty Tarp is that. You, decided like all right now, it's time for some avian dinosaurs in you started going fossil hunting in other states is funny because some of that was even before. When I was like summer of like when I was fourteen I had just gotten this like son I want to go and look for something. And so I just started googling round and so my dad, a couple of these websites e. went together. We went together the first year team. Off to South Dakota by himself, you know that's true. Good Point. And so most of what I did for the first couple years there was really more just prospecting. They would they would go to these ranch areas and send everybody off and you go and look for for little bits, and then when they find something big or something that's sort of like important day would get an excavated and then they would donate usually to the field museum. Because, it's just a private organization. You know that goes and send people out. But whenever they had something that was that was sort of value because they came from a science background it's sort of like understanding like, okay. You know that that should go somewhere where it can be studied and and we need to get all the data that and all that. So did you continue going out every summer fossil hunting John I actually just started doing this we we had the chance to go over to a place called the Wyoming Dinosaur Center for a couple of days. They have a couple of quarries established of Morrison Formation Material. So Jurassic stuff, allosaurus diplotic has Kamara source, some of those sort of usual favorites and. you go out there and just sort of pick a direction in this hill. Usually most most of the beds they have or some twenty feet by twenty feet, they have one that's a fair bit bigger but you know you can sit in and. Dig Out at some piece of sewer pot or something like that, and then after that, you can take it and they have this little museum. It's like right at the base of the hill they have a prep lab in there and you can just go right to the next stage like okay. Well, here's here's some fossils of people been finding what's prepare them and then we put them in in the collections hall and so it's Really A. Nice sort of bite size version of the complete experience like you can go there for a day for a week, you can go there. There's a couple of interns that are there for the summer and so however much you sort of want to dive into that side of it you can, and it does give that really interesting sort of feeling of like getting the work in that space. It's it's the ultimate trial run or do you WANNA be. A paleontologists. Yeah. I. Will say having been out in the field like middle of Nowhere Wyoming Montana South Dakota like this brutal conditions this summer between the bugs and the the he and all that stop. Dinosaurs Center I sorta jokingly call it the Ping. Field Work because they've got a shade. They've got a PORTA potty. You know on a lot of the dig sites it's around the corner from the air condition lab, and so I thought like man I wish I'd found that. Fourteen it's Easier a little more hard hardcore to go out into the open land. Yeah. But. that. Experience and we were talking to other. Paleontologists and Future Paleontologists and Matt. Everybody's a huge fan of doing the field work is some of them say others there's plenty of stuff already we could just work that or they just they're not really that outdoorsy, but you know it's rough in the field and. It really is I mean going through that sort of just physical experiences like a it's it's definitely something to separate out because I you know the stuff that really does sort of get me like I want to do for our is the preparing stuff in the researching stuff and just talking about and getting fired up about it. You feel workers is fun but it's something where it's. It's really does like physically just take it out of you. So now that you've done both sides of it, you prefer the preparation a little bit to the field work in most cases I mean there's something special about just going and seeing something that's like you are person number one. Ever seen this thing and no no disclaimer no. Oh well, technically. That is it. You went out into the middle of nowhere and picked up this piece of a gigantic creature from. A seventy million years ago. They've put me usually when I would go out. In the summers with him I'd be filming. I'd be back at the hotel working. I. Didn't do any of the digging and so at the Wyoming Dinosaur Center, they were like well here. Why don't you try it and so I'm just chipping away at some rocks and finding some dark stuff I have no idea what I'm really looking for. And it's like plant matter. But what's this James Nothing you know and then all of a sudden I'm like guys this. This looks kind of interesting like a bigger branch. They're like, okay you know and like Oh it's moving a little maybe stabilize it like okay and then I take out this chunk can unlike. The SA- rations as the James and and mags this intern look and go doesn't allosaurus to. Read one two and I was like Oh. Cool. Beginner's luck guess. I don't even know if you were the first one to see the rations maybe not. been like, Hey, can you look at this world? Because the the best tip we had was that it was like. And Shiny which is usual sort of in that formation at least it's an indicator of of Enamel. So they took that immediately into the lab and cleaned it up, and by the end of the day we're looking at, you know a tooth in pretty good shape. You know good enough to have all the scientific data that they would want you nice for that too and they have two hundred others but you know even that is part of. A bigger data sets. There's really a lot of fun. Yeah. So going back to the documentary what are some of the most memorable moments so far while making this? Well, we've had quite a few. Yeah. I mean I, almost the harder part is just picking some. Curry. Stories a pretty good one curry stories pretty fun. So we had been doing some interviews bird, I only went to the terrible and you know just had a great time with all the people there and half of that was like, okay. Well, now, we're going to go up to the University of Alberta and interview Phil Currie who is who is teaching there right now, and so it was like, Hey, let's go up and then we end up going in this building on. The fourth floor or something and meet him in in what is essentially his office and he's like Oh. Yeah. You know this is a cool area but I think the most of the fossils and things you'd actually want to see you're on the first floor because if we put on the fourth floor and there was an earthquake than the whole building would sort of sandwich lower floors. That's why the terror- with only one floor. That's a good point. I got a lot of land out there to. ZONGOL space. Over. there. So he was like, why don't you come down to the basement area and then we can you know position it in front of The skull working on and so we go our way down there and this like cement you know basement and through this hallway into this tiny room with like four one really nice conditions Straka Soros skull that was like it was in the jacket, but it was like finished being trapped. So you know it was wasn't even really a museum display it was just it was like it you know and you could see the horns on the size and the Horn Pocono and and Just, to like even be in that with with him whole experience. But we started up this is interview and it was to the point I was in the room with him, but the rule is so tiny that was me and the cameras, and then the cameras run the doorway and I'm outside the room he wasn't in the room at all monitoring the candles. So it was a little cramped. We started going through it and we're having. Really good time and I think when you have a really good time, you just really not keep talk about stuff. So we're talking about this and he's telling this story and this was like our into the interviewers. So maybe hour and fifteen, and I'm standing like this in like Oh. This is a cool story, and then just out of nowhere I start getting tunnel vision. And I lied began to faint. So I'm falling over the side of like a drawer in the back and he just sort of slumped. Slot back into that and I was watching the Monitor I can't even see James. I just see curry's face. Oh. James comes to and he's a little bit. And why we ended up switching places and I was I was there and still asking questions, but I was in a chair taking. Taking home break listening to the interesting story. To me that was the most memorable. That embarrassed James but now's the funniest. It was nice to was pretty nice about it and. You know sort of continued the show and curry will always remember you. You're the kid that fainted. starstruck yeah. Yeah I'm glad it wasn't anything serious. No fossils were harmed. No making this production. That's funny. That's your priority. Cubans. Can you give us a little taste of the story you're working on? Are you keeping under wraps? I think to a degree. We can lose their sort of topics and things that we want to have it be a part of. So without going into it a whole lot, it's sort of. Out these podcasters. We open onto podcasters. Greatest pilots. Minute, stat makes sense. This montage of James Payne and meeting some celebrity. Paleontology. Jeff Goldblum. US Talk Is. A Carbon Star. And Credit said. Said No. The True Synopsis in the broadest scopes? We really want to go through sort of the. The opening idea of like. Okay well, here is here's me. I'm sort of an example of one of these people's so many who are. Interested in dinosaurs like committee almost you know it's been really long time and you can see doing it for a very long time afterwards. And he's the question is just like, okay. Well, why is it that I even find this interesting why does anyone find this interesting and then beyond that? Like even even in the sense you know there's one thing to sort of be on the sidelines and B. Invested. But why do people devote their lives to the sort of thing? And really the interesting part that doesn't have quite as clean. An answer you know beyond sort of history is that dinosaurs compared to every other branch or era of prehistoric life have just dislike weird sort of celebrity status like we've been talking about with so many people if you want to do. Something about Earth history, try and find a way to cram in the word dinosaur. Look at more in West. So to get into a why that is and why it's been that way over the last hundred and fifty years or so is really what a lot of the of the beginning of it is is about so. This exploration of really. Paleontology kind of the classic stuff from from England and from the beginnings of America and and then all the world really is people start going more places and leading into that. There's all these sort of pop culture versions of dinosaurs over the years we've been cataloging you know King Kong and and. Even, just paintings and stuff but all these old movies Harry housing made and as leading up, you're getting through this point where there's like slumps and re ignition and interest in dinosaurs, and eventually through Sammy's you know assuming you guys are familiar with the the dinosaur renaissance. SORTA era, and then as you get to the seventies eighties research ramping up, and then there's just this culmination with Jurassic Park. And we've really found that that's almost like divider and the time line of like you know Pretty Pretty Javy, and JP. Before. Jurassic Park. Era and Jurassic Park. Era. because. Without fail really we've talked about sort of a why do you think dinosaurs appropriate with the people? It's like well now it's because they're they were in, you know one of the highest grossing movie franchises. And beyond that, there's just this explosion of cultural relevance. So we we go through a little bit of. The drastic park. It's almost like a mini dress park fan film. You know getting to talk to some of these people even though ironically. Drastic wasn't why I got into dinosaurs. You know like I. I like it as a movie I. Watched it. I. Think when I was like twelve or so. But I mean a lot of what sold it for me was books and documentaries and stuff that came out. In my time you know being being a two thousands kid but just to see sort of it's like one of the biggest cultural milestones, all payments Haji really. So. Seeing the transformation that happens in how people perceive dinosaurs and how people perceive paleontologists. Like before and after that movie's crazy. So beyond that, there's some talk about sort of all the different types of dinosaur enthusiasts who get into different way as got artists you have scientists have collectors. Of even just like toys and stuff like that tattoos you have ruled strongest man you know with like t rex tattoos and. His whole image Oh. There's a lot of interesting things. And even just these little stories too of of you know amateurs and just like people are really in the dinosaurs going out and finding something and making a scientific difference. You know there's a couple examples that we have of people we've met and they tell us stories about like well, I just sorta wanted to be part of it and I thought it was full. So I started walking around my ranch or whatever it is and I found a dinosaur and now there's a new dinosaur. and. It's a world named after me is named after man. That's. That's so that's all spoilers you're gonNA. Get. Putting the Kabosh right there. We appreciate that. So do you have a release date yet? I've got a hard date of end of this year. So December thirty. First Twenty. Twenty holiday. Yeah Yeah. We don't know what that means in terms of distribution or anything like I mean, our dream was to you know premiered at like Natural History Museum are at the tar pits in one of their theaters we wanted to do a film festival but those are so bizarre now virtual and so. Right now we're focused on religious, make a good movie and then try and crammed onto a streaming service. Yeah. Hey, we don't have a plan for it, but that would be something we really WanNa do is you know get a get soon further so there's an easy way for people to took look at it. Yeah. You're doing spire people you know especially young people and we're hoping that the breadth of people that we've interviewed. makes more approachable for everybody. You know it's not just older white male paleontologists. You know it kind of started that way and we got good feedback from the community and we just learned there's there's people from all walks of life that are interested in dinosaurs in some way shape or form, and even just get into sort of newer faces. You know 'cause a lot of what we have been thinking about. What I think about is is just sort of these people who are now like Paleo celebrities but just been in it for real time you know four years or something it's like that is a lot of that legacy is going to be for the future. But there's all these people who haven't really made their legacy yet and so getting the see that sort of raw, you know Hungary student energy think. I'm going to do it and I. Found my way into it and To see sort of these people, it's like this is going to be next generation of like the legendary paleontologist. Just, getting to meet all the people have been really quite the expense itself. Beyond beyond filming, he's know having a chance to be hey, own. and. Talk Talk for bit out from it. Yeah. So, you've been really active on social media and getting the word out about your show with trailers and everything. Where's the best place for people to go to keep up with what you guys are up to and see when the movie comes out why dinosaurs dot com is the best place to start. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us thanks for having us. Thanks again, Tony James for letting US interview we're excited to watch y dinosaurs when it comes up. Yeah. And now to our dinosaur of the day, Ostro Rafter which was a request from Paleo Mike VR Patriot and discord. So thanks. Ostro actor was in Unin- logging dramatic assorted that lived in the Cretaceous and what is now Argentina found in the Allen. Formation in Rio Negro. It's one of the largest known dramatic sorts almost as big as Utah after. Yeah. It's estimated to be about sixteen feet or five meters long though Gregory Player estimated it to be twenty feet or six meters long and a six hundred and sixty pounds or three hundred kilograms pretty much. Utah Raptors is To, Ostro Raptor was a bipedal carnivore and had this low elongated skull which may have made. It have a weaker by force. It had conical non serrated teeth with tentacles. Which novus and others who named Ostro after two spinosaurus teeth and. It had short arms for a dramatic sort usually. Germania. Swords have long arms that is quite a bit different than Utah Raptors short arms and non serrated conical teeth. Yes. So it's humorous was less than half the length of the femur about forty six percent and that's compared to seventy six percent in dialysis another dramatic soared. Because of its short arms austerer after is being compared to t rex, but it's actually not closely related as an UNIN- logging. Astro after may have been a good runner and better at pursuing prayed than other dreamy swords. It was grass sale and could run fast for long periods of time and had these relatively thin long metatarsal. So all these things mean that it could chase after small fast animals. Scientists may models for a relative, another dramatic ascorbic Yuki Raptor and found that future edrich travel long distances to chase after prey and then used its long fore limbs and secod injure or kill the prey, and then probably swallowed its food hall with its nonsense teeth and it could views its teeth hold the prey. So a similar model has been proposed for Ostro after though it would not have held its prey because its arms were too short and its teeth were conical and possibly stronger. So it could have used its teeth when hunting. So maybe it relied more on its head than his arms and that's another little comparison to t rex. L. Maybe yeah. So the type species is Ostra after Cabeza I. It was found in two thousand two by a team and then described and named in two thousand, eight by Fernando Amelia Novus and others. They found a partial skeleton with the water the skull, the holiday includes parts of skull lower jaw vertebrae, ribs humerus in parts of the legs. The genus name means southern thief. The species name is in honor of Alberta. Cabeza who founded the museum municipal villa market where the fossil was partially studied Phil Currie in Arianna. Paulina Carbajal referred a second specimen to Ostro. Rafter in twenty twelve have been found in two thousand eight was an adult partial skeleton with a skull, a little smaller than the holiday and includes things that were missing in the hall type like the lower arm and hand foot Ostra. After is one of the earliest known Gondwana Andreas Awards and that helps show that large swords were some of the large predators alongside Abella swords. Animals that lived around the same time in police include titanic sores such as Salta sewers urged such as Lima Navis and Hadrosaurs such as bonapartist source you can see Australia at the Bernardino Rivadavia Natural History Museum in. Argentina. And are, Fun Richard Romance Borough of the day is that many bone beds are caused by floods or river deposits but as possible that some dinosaur bone beds were formed from a mass poisoning now? Yeah. So this is one of the theories behind the Cleveland Lloyd Quarry with the Weirdly High Number of Allah sewers. So there are multiple things that could have killed these alice oars and one of the theories is that maybe there was a poisoned or disease to animal carcass that attracted Nelson looking for an easy meal which was then by. The same poisoner disease, the head killed, the animal is trying to scavenge, and then that allosaurus body contributed as more meat to attract another alice or which also died which attracted another also and on and on and on and on. Until you got a whole bunch allosaurus dead in one place and it looks like a super weird scene, a morbid seen. Yes. But what I want to talk about from I erected, Roma's Pearl is that there's a couple ways that lakes can cause mass poisonings. So one of them is called a limb nick. Eruption and this is a really crazy event and the thing that really got me started down this rabbit hole. So Olympic eruption isn't like an eruption of volcano that you're used to where it's an explosion of hot gases and magma and lava and pyroclastic flows and all that kind of stuff. It's just a huge off gassing of carbon dioxide from a lake and it's literally the same thing that happens when you open a can of soda and it starts bubbling that's carbon dioxide which was dissolved in the soda when you open the CAN. Coming off as a gas it works in Soda Really Well Because Co two dissolves in cold water better than doesn't water. So if you've ever noticed if you open a can of soda at room temperature, if fizzes a lot more than it does if you chill it beforehand because the vapor pressure is different. So when it's warm, it comes shooting out a little bit more and then the pressure inside the can also helps to keep it inside the liquid. So one specific example of Olympic eruption happened at a place called Lake Niaz in Cameroon. The geology of Lake Nieto's is really unique. It's hundreds of feet deep, which is pretty deep for a lake and it's right next to a volcano. The important thing about this volcano is that there are some cracks or fissures in the volcano. Slowly leak carbon dioxide into the lake and at the bottom of the lake, which is also important because the water the bottom of the lake is cold and under a lot of pressure since it's deep, because water just gets pressurized by more water on top of it when it's at the bottom of a lake, for example, and just like a can of soda, which is under pressure in cold, it can absorb lots of carbon dioxide in the setting. So now you have this lake where the bottom, there's this cold water under a lot of pressure. It's absorbed a lot of carbon dioxide and Lake Niaz unlike most lakes, there are separate layers in the lake that don't intermix. So there's this cold bottom layer and it doesn't mix with the higher layers must look a little weird. Will you probably wouldn't see 'cause it's like six hundred feet deep but yeah, it might cause it look is pretty still I would guess there's not a lot of convection going on or if there is it's confined to separate layers. So as a result, this carbon ax I can build up in these in this cold bottom layer for years and years and years, and then what happens like what happened in nineteen eighty six something triggers the layers to mix. Probably, in one, thousand, nine, hundred, six, it was a small landslide and that caused some of the cold water to come up from this lower layer, and then with that reduced pressure and increased temperature, it caused bubbles of co two to form just like what happens when you open a can of soda. And then in this case, those bubbles forming and that water moving up draws up more cold water, which is concentrated really heavily in carbon dioxide which off gases, and again, it comes into a runaway reaction where eventually carbon dioxide shoots out of the lake just like an open can of soda just. Karnak comes flying out. They said, it was going one hundred kilometers an hour straight up. Out of the lake, it must've looked completely insane sounds violent. Yes and they believe that a shot way up into the air like kilometers and kilometers up into their but carbon dioxide is more dense than air. So it settled back down onto the land and the result was a massive cloud of hundreds of thousands of tons of carbon dioxide, planting a sixteen mile radius around the lake and. That carbon dioxide displaced the nitrogen and oxygen. So everything there died. including seventeen hundred people and at least thirty, five, hundred livestock that suffocated. It was super tragic, and as a result, they put in what they call a D. gassing tube, which is literally just a tube that goes down to that deep layer where the carbon dioxide builds up and they start pump, and then eventually it goes on its own through a siphon action which allows the layers to mix and keeps the CO two off gassing. So it doesn't build up in the lower layer, and hopefully there isn't another limb nick eruption there. There's another lake in Africa called late Kiu, which is between the DRC and Rwanda, and they think that lake goes through limiting corruption about every thousand years just like kind of on cycle something happens. One of the things that can cause it is just the C O two builds up so much that it can't hold any more in the water and some bubble start rising rather than getting absorbed in the water, and that causes it to turnover sounds like the way version of Dante's peak his pre crazy. So you can imagine in that. It kills everything in around an above the lake and lakes are really good places to get fossilized because if you follow the bottom of Lake especially, if there's nothing in there to scavenge you, you can get buried by silt and runoff from the surrounding area and fossilized. So it's possible that this has happened and maybe we've found some muscles that are the result of this. Another interesting possibility? That I think about sometimes because we live in California is something like the Sultan. and. If you've never heard of the salty, you should definitely look it up because it's really interesting. It's spelled salt and then Owen. Sultan. The thing that's going on there, which could cause a lot of animals. Die Is an increase in salinity. So the sultan she is in this interesting spot, in California, which is kind of near the Colorado River was formerly part of the Gulf of California. Down in Mexico. Partha separates Baja California from the other states. So periodically, pretty frequently over geologic time scales, it's filled with water off most recently though it was accidentally filled with water during a water project in nineteen zero five, and they accidentally made the largest lake in California by. Had you accidentally do that? They were trying to redirect the Colorado. River, and like something didn't go as planned and for years just tons of water flooded into this basin in California. And made the largest lake by area for years. Yeah. It took them a while to repair it. Apparently, it was a big mistake. But interestingly, there's this whole thing that happened where they thought. This'll be this great place like. Where People WanNa, to visit and everything so they started developing it. Oh, is this the lake with all the flies? Yes. So what happened was it's in the desert. So a lot of that water evaporates and the salinity increased and increased, and eventually it started killing off a lot of the wildlife and then yeah, there's lots of flies became a really gross smelling place. So all the developments got cancelled, it's a really interesting ghost town kind of place with all these weird half made developments and things it looks really post apocalyptic. But the important thing about it is that increase in salinity that's happening will eventually kill all the fish in the lake unless something changes in the main animal life there that you see if you go, there is birds or dinosaurs if you prefer. Over fifty species of birds, including lots of goals and Pelicans that eat the fish and obviously if all of the fish die from an increase in salinity, the dinosaurs there are going to die too because they have nothing left to eat possibly getting buried in the lake and then again excellent fascination. Yes. especially in this case because that salinity doesn't hurt either for preserving something in the interim time before fossils. So there's just a couple of examples of how there could be a mass fossil ization other than a flood type burial. To die. But fortunately, with these cases, there are ways to avoid it. So like we have that way to relieve the CO two in the deeper layers of Lake Niaz, and then in the Salton Sea. Part of the problem there too is a lot of runoff from agriculture. So reducing the runoff from agriculture and then also just adding more freshwater to it. So it doesn't just continually get more and more salty would the fish to continue living? On that positive. That have this episode Divino. Dino, thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your favorite podcast APPS. You don't miss out on any new episodes, and if you want to join a growing community of dinosaur enthusiasts, chicken our page at Patriot dot com slash. I Know Dino. Thanks again until next time.
Get to Know Kamala Harris - 8/13/2020
"Hello and welcome to the Quick News daily podcast where we give you all the latest news and under twenty minutes no fluff. No filler just news made for the twenty first century. Today's Thursday. August thirteenth. Thank you for getting your news from me as for what news will be going over. I want to do more justice to Kamala Harris and her background. So I'll go over that. I'll also cover the latest on the postal service, some environmental news, some dinosaur news and more hopefully let's get caught up. Shall We? This dinosaur story is a story. I thought was kind of fun last year on the Isle of wight off the coast of England. Paleontologists found four dinosaur bones that were brought to them by independent collectors paleontologist that they came from the neck bone entail of the same dinosaur of a new species. They named Victor Rovan eater in Addis, it lived one hundred, fifteen, million years ago. It was four meters or thirteen feet long, and the thing that's unique is that they found it in marine deposit. So not on land like most fossils come from. I wasn't really sure how it related to the T. REX at first because the headline says you know relative of the T. Rex but I checked in, it's related to a lot of species even birds. And all of these species are in the theropod group, which means they have hollow bones in three toed limbs. So that explains why they're in there with birds. So there's your science dinosaur fixed for the day. This environmental story comes from Jeff Barry Deli at CBS. into talks about what ice in the Arctic Ocean means for everyone else and for us jeff talks about a story that was published. Monday. That predicts that the Arctic may be ice free in the summer by twenty, thirty five, which is faster than originally predicted. Yeltsin gets the analogy ice in the Arctic is a refrigerator. into regulates Earth's climate impacts weather patterns in ocean circulation globally. The shocking part is that we've lost forty percent of our sea ice in the Arctic just since nineteen eighty. So. Forty percent in forty years. The other scary part is that the Arctic is warming three times faster than the global average because with less ice, the darker water in the ocean absorbs more sunlight. Does. Making everything else how. Well some say this could be twenty, thirty, five others say that's too aggressive. probably be ice free in summer in the mid twentieth forties. But the last point that one scientists makes is the exact year isn't necessarily what we should be focusing on. Instead. We should try to do as much as we can as early as we can because we'll start feeling the effects. A long time before the is is completely gone. I found this next story interesting because you know how much I hate the stereotype that Republican presidents are better for the economy on CNN site several writers together in analysis of the stock market under every president. Since Reagan, they give two sets of numbers where the stock market was when they were eight hundred, ninety, six days into their term because yesterday was data number eight ninety. Six for trump and also gives their totals for both of their terms at the eight hundred, ninety, six, dame mark every president except w had the stock market increase. However of the increases for Republicans Reagan was at plus twenty percent in h. w. and trump were both at forty seven percent Bud Barack Obama in Clinton had increases of seventy, four percent in fifty two percents respectively. As for totals for their terms, Reagan ended term one at plus thirty in term two at plus sixty, seven, h w Bush was plus fifty one for his one term Clinton had insane totals of plus seventy nine in his first term plus seventy three in his second George W had minus twelve in his first term in minus thirty one in his second and Obama was plus eighty five in his first term employs fifty three in his second. So I know, I always bring up the fact that the stock market isn't the economy. But I also hit that wall. Street always loves Republican presidents because they cut regulations in. So on this analysis just completely destroys that logic. If these millionaires and billionaires were smart. They'd always vote for Democrats. But the cynical part of me thinks that they probably make their money when all the regulations are cut in they really don't care about the stock market at large I guess in. I just hate that democratic presidents are always looked down on for the economy. Trump is also the reason millions of Americans are now unemployed. He inherited the longest economic expansion in history. From Barack, Obama and job Aydin. And then like everything else he inherited. He ran straight into the ground. That voice you just heard was none other than the Democratic nominee for Vice President Kamala Harris, even from that short short clip, you still get a sense of what he compelling polished speaker. She is sort of a nerd for analyzing body language. So I, cut that she's a good speaker because of that little itty bitty paws right before she delivers he kill shot punchline like everything else he inherited he ran it straight into the ground perfect timing perfect execution and maybe I'm over analyzing but maybe I'm not. Looking back yesterday was more of my reaction to the Camera Harris pick in now this much letting you know who she is what her story is. So that's what I'll try to do today. First things first let's start with. KOMO's upbringing. She was the oldest of two kids. She has a younger sister named Maya Harris. Originally, from India, and she moved here to get her doctorate in endocrinology income. Louis father moved here from Jamaica to get his masters in economics. He actually went on to teach ECON at Stanford. They both went to UC Berkeley for these degrees. So that's where they I met. common-law was part of the second year of her school district's desegregation busing program. In the school, she was bused to was ninety five percent white before the program. So I imagine there was some tension there, but her parents divorced when she was seven and she moved to Montreal Canada with her mom when she was twelve. Kamla eventually went to Howard University for her Undergrad then back to Hastings College in California for her juris doctor. She then rose through the ranks as the deputy da in San Francisco, handling a lot of child abuse and violent crimes situations. She then became the San Francisco da in two thousand four. Where she stayed until twenty eleven, she was forward thinking in terms of nonviolent crimes. including, being aggressive in environmental crimes and misconduct by city officials which had come in Handy in the next administration I don't know why just a feeling. She gets a lot of crap from the far left for her record on drug. Crimes. But when you look into it, even though she prosecuted marijuana crimes at a higher rate than the previous district attorney, there was a. Decrease in defendants sentenced to state prison for these non violent crimes, and she actually had a known policy of not pursuing jail time for these possession charges. This one story from that time shows just how far she's willing to go for what she believes in early on, she pledged to never seek the death penalty. But winning officer was shot in the line of duty come loose still wouldn't pursue the death penalty for the killer. She had pressure from police officers, the police officers, association US, Senator Barbara, boxer in Jerry Brown who was May I've Oakland at the time but would become Californian governor. Senator Dianne Feinstein even got up at the officers funeral and demanded she pursued the death penalty where she got a standing ovation from the two thousand uniformed officers still Harris refused to pursue it. Eventually public polling showed seventy percent of San Francisco residents were on Harris's side. She then became California Attorney General in two thousand eleven was re elected in two thousand fourteen and then ran for and won the US Senate seat in two thousand sixteen. So it's been quite the rise for her and there's a little something for everyone to like in her background. So again, a very solid smart choice. Now, the Republicans in Fox News and all that are still having a tough time trying to figure out how to attack Kamla in defense of trump would be able to stay on message. Listen to this. If I don't win the election, China will own the United States you're going to have to learn to speak Chinese speak Chinese I mean come on. That's just a new level of insane not to mention it sounds like something one, thousand, nine, hundred sixties racist ended someone mentioned racism. Let's take another listen to trump's press conference yesterday. Several Times that that Joe Biden is elected president the there will be an invasion in suburban neighborhoods cinema the choose between Kim this morning. Thank you mean by an invasion? what I mean is people are going to become. They willing to be. Opening up areas of your neighborhood which they're doing, and now they're going to do they wanted to expand it and they will expand it if Ernie reason they're going to in my opinion destroy suburbia. And just. So you understand thirty percent plus of the people living in suburbia. African American Asian American Hispanic American minorities thirty percent the numbers even hired they saved thirty five but I like to cut it a little bit lower. You know why that way I can never get myself into much trouble with. Fake News. So it's just cool if the president only says, he wants to make sure less minorities live in the suburbs. Well I. Guess He will be playing the race card against Comma, and it'll be interesting to see which insult he uses to offend minority group and I'm jumping at the idea winning with anticipation and excitement. Another story that brings the blood pressure up is this one or anyone about postmaster general slash trump mega donor Louis de joy who might as well be named Louis de Misery to miseries. Financial disclosures were recently made public and let's just see what you think of this dimiss re still holds about thirty million dollars stake in the company he just left X. P. O. Logistics, which is a contractor for the postal service, which is a huge conflict of interest. It's illegal under federal law for federal employees or their spouses to have a financial interest in companies they could deal with during their job. In this seems like the exact definition of that. He's also got some shady stuff going on with Amazon stock options. So Senator Elizabeth Warren leading a Group of Democrats. That's asking the post. Office Inspector General to investigate this and joys policy changes. He's made to slow down the mail. I'm not even going to say allegedly because let's just listen to Donald trump this morning they went three and a half three, billion dollars for. The male in votes. Okay. Universal Mail in ballots three after they want twenty, five, billion dollars billion for the post office. Now, they need that money in order to have the post office work. So it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots. Now, in the meantime they are getting there by the way those are just two items but if they don't get those two items that means you can't have universal Mellon voting I mean, he's admitting it. He saying it out loud. He's warning US Hey I'm trying to obstruct Mellon voting. I mean. It's impeachable he should be gone but no wait wait. Susan Collins said this I believe that the president has learned from this case. What do you believe the president has learned? The president has been in paint bad some pretty big lesson. That makes me feel better guys. He learned his lesson. We should all come down man. It's just sort of my fantasy to have like Attorney General Elizabeth Warren getting a crack at prosecuting all these awful awful people when this is over. This last story is one that makes my blood boil again in no wonder it's from Florida. I'd say, sorry but Floridians are actually the first to acknowledge how messed up their state is. Apparently Marion County Sheriff Billy Woods Billy Woods. Thinks that his oath of office to protect people only extends to laws he wants to enforce sheriff brains issued in order on Wednesday that bans deputies from wearing masks in almost all work settings as well. Citizens coming into share buildings. He had this to say quote now can already hear the whining in just so you know I did not make this decision easily in I've waited out for the past two weeks. We can debate argue all day of y not the fact is the amount of professionals that give the reason why we should I can find the exact same amount of professionals that say why we shouldn't. There's only one person I trust to call me respond to that vomit of lies. Luke skywalker. Amazing. Every word of what you just said. Was Wrong. The only people saying masks don't work are junk scientists and junk doctors. And Oh, by the way I like how this cult of idiots moved from the government can't order me to do this. It's my personal choice to thinking they're cooled rule breaker to mandate that people can't wear masks. Does that mean? I. Could protest because it's my individual choice to wear a mask. Anti massacres in anti vaccine I tell you. All right. That's it for the news today. First of all special, shout to Kathy for the new review on Apple podcasts. It was fantastic. It made my day. So thank you so much for that. If you WANNA. Be Like Kathy, Lee a rating or review wherever you're listening in. If it's a review and you leave a name I guarantee, I'll give you a shout as well. Also, if you're looking to become a contributor monetarily, don't forget these special offer of getting a free mask if up at the executive producer or news director levels on Patriots steady, pay pal, etc whatever you want. So that offers still out there. Otherwise stay safe. Make your plan to vote now and you back here tomorrow.
Covid track and trace app delayed: a test users experience. Plus Erin Bromage on the risks of easing lockdown.
"Hello it's David here on. Your podcast provider is a little button. That says share. We'd love it if pressed that do it right now and give us a rating to enjoying great audiences for the leader. Kuna virus daily. But we'd always welcome more and get intelligent to use the Hashtag Philly the podcast from the evening standard in London. This is the leader could owner virus daily. Hi I'm David Moslem. The track and trace that was a big part of the. Uk's Corona virus fightback now. It's being delayed for things that don't want right with it. It's going to be retested later so I don't know but I my guess is now may well have things that need to be refined to rights before if a restaurant nationwide as one of the people testing it on the isle of wight. We speak to him about how that trials going and if we go back to handshaking and hugging and crowded department stores and restaurants we have just given everything the virus needs to find new bodies to grow. I all professor at Brahmin Johm why the should be no singing at schools or shouting in the office in the new KUNA virus world. Take from the Evening Standard's editorial column. This is the leader Kuna virus daily for the whole thing. Pick up the newspaper or had to stand the Khuda UK slash comment in a moment delays to the track and trace apple the UK's track and trace APP is supposed to become a major part of the country's efforts to control Karuna virus people download it and it tells them if they've come into contact with someone showing symptoms of the disease. Vail them be contacted until to self isolate. It's meant to be up and running around well now but when asked about it by Kiarostami at prime minister's questions today Boris Johnson. Said we have a growing confidence that we will have a test track and trace operation that will be world-beating and yes it will be in place. It will be in place by June the I Jin. The first is now and growing. Confidence isn't a definite editorial column agrees if the system's not working it should be delayed but something has to happen. Britain fell behind many other countries in controlling deaths and infection. Naught because scientific advice was less good our searches are as good as anywhere on the planet boss because the government. Shane did not get its response to the science right. It took political leadership from the likes of Matt. Hancock the health secretary to push for a better testing system against dysfunctional official structures. But even now test results can be slow and we same far behind some other countries in introducing a way of tracing and tracking people who have come into contact with infection. The APP we were told could help. This month is still being developed. Teams of traces have only just been employed. It's right not to rush out an APP. That doesn't work well. But if ministers are listening to science and the scientists say we need a system of testing tracking and tracing before lifting lockdown further the pressure on government to explain why we haven't got one yet when others have will only grow the APPs being trialed on the isle of White Around Sixty thousand people have downloaded it from a population of one hundred forty thousand. One of them is artist. Richard May who joins me over zoo? Richard has it. Welcome for you. Well it was launched on the at the beginning of the week with healthcare professionals could keep his residence Host on Thursday. Read the letter downloaded down. Seven point Say fired up details in then what happens what is it like. It's a continuance. So my phone there is in the CODA. You tap on the big issues. Gets you some advice. It says some? Are you feeling well today? And if you're not if you're feeling fine which which fortunately I am. You don't do anything it just sits on your phone and it done nothing happened. Say Will you walk around. I'm jumping it doesn't does it doesn't paint doesn't give an electric show. Nothing home until I guess you. You need to be full and so far so good for you thought. Yeah my my fingers crossed one about other people that you know they downloaded too because it needs a Lotta people to work about. Sixty percent of the population needs to download it. Has it got that kind of uptake. Well because we're socially distanced I'm really bumped into many many friends and acquaintances of those people have spoken to. I'd say about half of them have downloaded it Some reservations over privacy. I'm some hand because concerts. Those privacy concerns are brought a lot of people who've been talking in some human rights groups who have raised worries about what governments are doing with the data not just in the UK but around the world that a going into these apps and whether third parties can get control of them. How alone you wanted while you about privacy. And how have those concerns being laid for you? Well I don't know. So they have been allayed. Ready could because we're working on their version of the that was the role and download it at the beginning so he won't have been updated. I mean my concerns are the concerns of advice. People that data may made the data that goes into the very minimal so they have my phone obviously but they don't really help very much else but my concern would be along the lines of using using about information or something. I haven't read with communicating ballot to be able to leave the current. So so some you know. I'm just not I'm not quite secure but on balance. I think that I would want to not in contact someone into this way. Is it reassuring just to have it? Then even though it's not doing anything is earlier. Reassurance in a new news is good news type away. A little thing. That says it's working properly so bounce reassurance suppose in the news today well things don't want right with it. It's going to have to be retested language so I don't know my guess is may well have things that need to be refined to right before if restaurant. Nice Moi they would know that and I guess if you're going to get coke in nineteen you're going to get with nineteen to an extent amdi out. We'll give you some much but in terms about to race. It is the risk of your privacy. Being breached grange of the risk of catching Kobe teams. And I don I. It's an interest in being part of a test like this. Do you understand why the Isla White was selected for all young. Why is it never made? News headlines escaped. It's a carnival show actual bombs United Kingdom. So it was. It was a strange feeling to be asked to do something I mean. I can get the demographics because redoubt come and go. We're pretty much a closed community at the moment so it it did make sense to ask us and know if we can help to get it right rest of the or P we should a fund hasn't bounced to say I've been in contact with any of these symptoms until Bob. Next we have all the tools in our workplace or an harming alive to deal with the threats that we deal with number. Nobody has the tools for this. I mean all professor Edinburgh images advice on surviving the new world. The weather's looking fine as a bank holiday on Monday. And we're all allowed. Unlimited exercise and parks sometimes can feel like the new normal may not be bad but how much risk is still out there right. In the beginning of this pandemic Professor Arun Bromwich from Massachusetts University Dartmouth went viral for want of a better word with his blog. Post the risks. No them avoid them. It was right thirteen million times in a week with me now to give advice on what to do has lockdown restrictions ease and Aaron. Where are the dangers now? The biggest risks in regards to contracting adjusts more interactions with more people. If we go back to handshaking and hugging and Y- crowded department stores and restaurants we have just given everything. The virus needs to find new bodies to grow in. This seems to be this relaxed of people's anxiety. In general that something magical has happened in the last few days that allows us to go back to work and do these things more safely wearing exactly the same situation especially in the. Us As we were when we locked down we were heading up. And we lockdown with just hit that same point now and we're coming out and so there's nothing biologically that says we should be relaxing but isn't finding the new normal part of. I guess accepting of risk that you might catch this infection because there is no vaccine and we can't all stay at home forever so a big part of me writing these posts have not been about fear. Have not been about trying to get people to lock away. I of what did an infectious disease lab for over twenty years. I know in my lab how to protect myself. I have two young children. I've taught him since they could walk when they're road. They need to look left. Look right looked left. We have all the tools in workplace or in harmony life to deal with the stress that we deal with normally. Nobody has the tools for this. Because it's new to the vast majority of people so my writing is about. How can we understand and appreciate the risk while still getting back to a gregarious spending time with each other and so it's just understanding the role that mosques play role in dropping transmission? Social distancing plays a role in dropping transmission. May the trajectory of where this guy goes especially over the next three or four months is no longer in the hands of the governments. It's in the hands of us. We need to make a choice and our choices. Every day needs to be there to determine where this goes as well as countries like the UK positive the US going back to walk. There's a lot of pressure on schools to open up again and let pupils back him. Is this the right time if you have a high disease burden locally than it's not the right time it's not the time to be gambling with kids lives when we just don't know enough about it and to me? It's not just the kids. We know that they can be rare but steriods problems with children with this where I have. My worry is if we rush into this and we're putting teaches stuff in to the front line of this. That's where my worry lays because not everyone is young and healthy. That's in a teaching profession in Australia. I have no consultants with got twenty cases a day and there are slated into a very small area. Go back big vigilant e cautious but when you starting to talk about you know two thousand cases a day when you're talking about those sort of numbers that we're seeing in different countries. I think we need to pause and make the best decisions with that data and it will come. We have countries like Denmark. We have countries like Australia whose kids are back in school and every epidemiologist and public health is watching. Those schools lack a hawk to see what is going on so we can make the best decisions for our own schools. Come autumn come September. Had I would imagine that if skills go back classes lessons scoop culture will have to be very different. You've written in your blogs about things like how being and the act of singing can Worse in your possibility of an infection rate so that sounds like a school concert at the end of the year rule though. Isn't it if things look the way they do right now? I The answer has to be yes For Safety wise a lot can change between now and then for example scarlet fever. We didn't need a vaccine full. We had antibiotics and we got that under control. A good therapeutic. Good treatment could really turn arounds. What things look like predicting the future is tough but any situation that puts lots of people in environment with lots of noise singing? You know talking yelling is probably going to have to be ultimate for awhile to. You'll has remember. There's a bit a little bit yellen in. I'M MORE AT RISK HERE. All by going outside to go into what is long as you're being reasonable in your interactions outside of the environments. You don't have to worry about your indoor environmental so we treat out harm just the way that we did is yelling from upstairs and down. It's the same thing when the lab talking and the yelling becomes a problem is if you work in an industrial environment with lots of people. Seeing the meat packing facilities lots of token lots of yelling. It's a cold environment to preserve the mate. It just makes everything perfect for the transmission of disease. Call senses nightclubs in order to talk to your friend club. You've gotta get in Clarkston you've gotTa Yell. We just set things up so all we then Erin. Resigned to living in fear of this virus feared the viruses. Not The right thing have respect for what it can do even if it's not going to affect you personally but it does affect a lot of people so the individual decisions that we make on a day to day basis. You know those little things of How seriously do I do? I Wear Moss in close spaces. Do I still shake hands? What do I do social distancing the way that it meant to be those little decisions that you make every day will have a huge effect on what happens in our community going forward each snakes. Think from a community standpoint for everyone to solve this problem and we will and that's the leader Luna virus daily. You can keep up with all the latest covid nineteen developments with the Evening Standard Live blog standard acute UK and we also have morning briefings available at seven. Am through your smart speaker. Just ask for the news from the Evening Standard. This podcast is tomorrow the four PM.